# 10 Gallon Riparium Experiment



## malaybiswas (Nov 2, 2008)

This is going to be one more interesting setup. You and hydrophyte are gradually coaxing me to breakdown one of my tanks and start a riparium but I want to hold back till I get the my current layout to mature.

And till then learn some more about ripariums from you guys.


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Nice! You are making me want to pull one of the 30 breeders out of the garage now.


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## Strick (Apr 6, 2009)

Sweet. Keep us up to date with more pictures as you progress. Can't wait to see it...


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

This is a good idea and Hoppy's plan makes me want to try something similar. I think that a 30 Breeder with top rim removed would be a real good option. This could create the same kind of feeling as a planted garden pond. Fish that are suited to being viewed from above, such as goldfish or mollies, would be excellent choices. I gotta watch out for 30 Breeders on Craigslist.

Of course this begs the question of why one wouldn't just do a simple paludarium setup in a shallow tank like that by stacking up driftwood or lava rock to develop the planting area. I have seen setups like that before. I imagine that the riparium planters would make it easier to set everything up and grow a wider variety of plants. The riparium option would also leave more underwater space for the fish.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

hydrophyte said:


> This is a good idea and Hoppy's plan makes me want to try something similar. I think that a 30 Breeder with top rim removed would be a real good option. This could create the same kind of feeling as a planted garden pond. Fish that are suited to being viewed from above, such as goldfish or mollies, would be excellent choices. I gotta watch out for 30 Breeders on Craigslist.
> 
> Of course this begs the question of why one wouldn't just do a simple paludarium setup in a shallow tank like that by stacking up driftwood or lava rock to develop the planting area. I have seen setups like that before. I imagine that the riparium planters would make it easier to set everything up and grow a wider variety of plants. The riparium option would also leave more underwater space for the fish.


The reason for chosing the riparium option is the ease of setting it up, the ease of changing the setup, the ability to start the plants growth elsewhere, then move them into the display setup, the lack of additional "stuff" in the water, taking up valuable space that could be used for fish, the ease of cleaning - remove the planters, wipe the biofilm off, replace them - the ability to adjust the amount of "wet feet" the planters get, the ability to customize the "soil" each plant grows in, etc. All of these are reasons I knew I had to try ripariums the moment I read the first post about one by Hydrophyte, and saw the photos of what it could look like.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Wow! I can nail two boards together! Well, it isn't quite that easy, but almost. Two pieces of scrap 3/4 plywood, butt joined with glue and 3 drywall screws. The Zen Aquarium Stand. Here it is under the tank:









This will be spray painted black, to make it disappear from view, but serve to support the lights.


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Go Hoppy Go! Man you don't mess around when you get an idea.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

MrJG said:


> Go Hoppy Go! Man you don't mess around when you get an idea.


Actually, I have been looking at that tank on my deck for several weeks, wondering what to do with it next. And, the lighting idea I have been wanting to try out for even longer. All it took was the suggestion about having the plants up near the top to trigger my "knee jerk" response, and get me going on this. Projects like this get me very excited, and ripariums just make the projects more exciting.


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

I feel ya. I have 2 30 breeders sitting in front of my car in the garage that I look at every morning and evening... its hard not to set them up. I'm seriously considering putting one up in our sun room just to put some hemagraphis sp. and other riparium stuff in to grow out in natural lighting. Think I'd have to do anything about water movement if I kept the water level pretty low but enough to keeps the roots wet? 
Sorry to derail.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

I think we need good water circulation in a riparium because we are relying on the tank water for most of the nutrients, especially for plants on rafts. If we don't keep the water moving, stagnant areas should develop, where the concentration of nutrients will drop way down. Some of these plants have huge masses of roots absorbing nutrients from the water. But, this is such a new field I would hesitate to say anything for certain.


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Here is a tank that I think would be great for this two-thirds full idea...

*Green Leaf Rimless Aquarium 63-S*

I have been looking all over for tanks with a 24" X 18" footprint, and spotted this one when I gave the GLA offerings a second look. Filled to about 2/3 it would hold about 20 gallons. Green Leaf Aquariums will ship this tank delivered right to your door, and the UPS charge isn't bad at all...



CL said:


> !!


A riparium in the 63-S might have to be my next tank project.



.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

That would be a great riparium tank! I wish I had that now, not the 63 but the 90, also 18 inches deep and high. The website doesn't state the shipping cost, but that would be a consideration.










Painted black, and it does visibly vanish. The front edge which looks inadequately painted in the photo, looks almost perfect in person. The flash seems to have made the wood pores show up a lot more than they actually do.

And, I visited HD today. They don't have the Hypoestes plants anymore, so I have one of the last ones. Nor do they have any caladiums. It looks like most of their houseplants are out of stock there.

But I did get a couple of these: http://www.homedepot.com/Lighting-F...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053 to use for a light fixture. The price is certainly right.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

My complex, fine woodworking, setup is complete now. The light "fixture" is just 2 boards glued and screwed together to form a "T" so the clamp on lights have a place to clamp onto. This can be done neater, with more aesthics, but this will work fine, I think. Now, to find a couple of 23 or more watt powersaver bulbs, with 6500K rating - not that easy.


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

That looks great Hoppy this reminds me that I have that cabinet for my 56 Column that I need to finish. I have everything cut and glued, and now I need to sand it, apply finish and put it together.

Back when I was little we had some livestock and poultry on our farm for fun. We used those same lamps to brood new little baby chicks. I remember that we got them mail order a couple of times and they right in the post in a flat cardboard box with round holes in the side. You can order many unusual breeds as day-old chicks right online...

http://www.randallBurkey.com/Chicks/products/443/


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

I decided to use a RFUG to filter the water, because of the low maintenance they need, and the very clear water I'm getting in my 65 gallon riparium using one. This one will have no pre-filter, so it will get gunked up under the substrate sooner, but I doubt keeping this tank going that long anyway.

Today I installed 26 watt, GE 6500K light bulbs in the two reflectors, and measured the PAR they produce. To my surprise I get less PAR than measured with 23 watt bulbs by AirSong, in his stickie in the Lighting forum. It didn't take long to figure that out - my reflectors are 8.5 inches in diameter, and not great quality, while his were smaller, and probably of better surface quality. Still, I am getting over 100 micromols of PAR at the top of the tank, with the lights a foot above the tank, and the light is very uniform over the whole tank area. This is a good 10 gallon lighting method, if the appearance doesn't turn you off.

Plants: Are there any Crotons, Codiaeum Variegatum, that are miniature, and not 6 foot trees when mature? That's another nice looking varigated leaf plant, that looks like it would do well in a riparium. (No luck finding caladiums yet.)

EDIT: I was wrong above about the reason for the reduced intensity vs AirSong's data. The real reason is that his data is taken in water, in a very small tank, where the glass walls of the tank reflect light to the bottom, and the water tends to focus the light slightly, both of which increase the intensity a bit. My data is in air above the tank.


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Awesome so far. I wish I could offer any type of guidance with the plants but its going to take me a while to catch up. 
I cant wait to get things finalized and re-arranged in mine this weekend!


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

MrJG said:


> Awesome so far. I wish I could offer any type of guidance with the plants but its going to take me a while to catch up.
> I cant wait to get things finalized and re-arranged in mine this weekend!


So many different plants that might work, so many to learn about, and so many to enjoy:icon_bigg


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Hoppy said:


> That would be a great riparium tank! I wish I had that now, not the 63 but the 90, also 18 inches deep and high. The website doesn't state the shipping cost, but that would be a consideration.


Shipping was $90 for freight. I ordered the tank monday, it was shipped out Tuesday, and arrived today, Thursday.
It sure is a beautiful tank.

This project is really shaping up fast!


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Hoppy said:


> Today I installed 26 watt, GE 6500K light bulbs in the two reflectors, and measured the PAR they produce. To my surprise I get less PAR than measured with 23 watt bulbs by AirSong, in his stickie in the Lighting forum. It didn't take long to figure that out - my reflectors are 8.5 inches in diameter, and not great quality, while his were smaller, and probably of better surface quality. Still, I am getting over 100 micromols of PAR at the top of the tank, with the lights a foot above the tank, and the light is very uniform over the whole tank area. This is a good 10 gallon lighting method, if the appearance doesn't turn you off.


I imagine this question has been raised before, but how do you think this might compare watt-per-watt with a T5 lamp or other regular fluorescent?


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

hydrophyte said:


> I imagine this question has been raised before, but how do you think this might compare watt-per-watt with a T5 lamp or other regular fluorescent?


My 15H tank, which has the same footprint, has a 36 watt PC light. I get about the same PAR as I'm getting in the 10 gallon tank, with 52 watts. So, it is obvious that screw-in powersaver bulbs are not close to being as efficient as regular tubular fluorescent lights. And, T5 lights are even more efficient. But, you can't beat the low price for a screw-in bulb light "fixture". And, when I tear down this setup I can always use the clamp on lights as work lights in my garage work area.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Minor setback: yesterday I added pool filter sand, water and a heater. I washed the PFS, but not as well as I should. When I started up the RFUG it was comical. First some air volcanoes erupted all over the tank. Then a fog of cloudy water slowly rose from substrate to water surface, as the fine silt I didn't adequately wash out of the PFS was released into the tank from the upward flowing water. 

This morning it still hasn't cleared up, except very slightly. Before I went to bed I stuck a sponge on the powerhead inlet to try to filter out some of the silt, but that doesn't seem to have done any good. My next step is likely to be a few water changes to remove the cloudy water. Lesson learned: if using a RFUG, always thoroughly wash the substrate first!!


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

Ok, this is a really stupid question, but how hard is it to maintain a riparium, with hardy plants? also, could I keep a pair of Convict Cichlids in a 20g high riparium? Really like the tank so far Hoppy!


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

JakeJ I have lots of plants for you if you might want to set up a riparium. Where are you anyway? Are you in the Milwaukee area?

Your 20-gallon might work for a riparium with convicts. I am contemplating setting one up for my very pretty _Cryptoheros cutteri_. I think that the compatibility of the convict and the plants might depend on just how rambunctious your fish is.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

So far the maintenance I am doing is:
every other day add fertilizers to the water, using EI dosages,
every other day feed the fish,
every other day add make up water for evaporation, 
about every 4th day, on my 65 gallon tank, do about a 15% water change,
every few days look closely for problems and correct what you can (like toppled rafts, plants slipping out of raft notches,
once a week or so remove dead or dying leafs,
occasionally wipe down the water line to get rid of deposits.

All of that is for my 65 gallon tank. This 10 gallon one will likely get a bit less maintenance. My 15H tank is just a nursery now, so it mostly just gets fertilized and dead leaf removal.

I find it a lot less demanding than a regular planted tank, and more fun for me.

And, my 3 x 50+% water changes seem to be effective enough for clearing the water. Still a bit cloudy, but I think that will filter out. It was really creepy to watch the clouds move up from the substrate!


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

Thanks alot guys! I live in the Green Bay area, and I would really like to "recreate" the Convict's home (not useing S. A. plants though), a South American river\stream. Once I get the money, I would lower the water level and add some riparium plants. But thats once I get the money ):. Also what type of lighting would work? Mabey a coralife T5? Thanks and sorry for butting in to you thread Hoppy.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

JakeJ said:


> Also what type of lighting would work? Maybe a coralife T5? Thanks and sorry for butting in to you thread Hoppy.


You will want to raise whatever light you use so it gives enough clearance for plants to grow up out of the tank, unless you use emersed aquatic plants that need the humidity of a closed tank. So, any light that would give you high light intensity in an aquarium should work fine, in my opinion. And, no problem for butting in - it is all relevant.










I just got back from a very successful trip to Target, of all places. Their nursery section had a lot of little potted "houseplants", some of which are sure things for a riiparium. The three I bought, for about $12 total, are, left to right, Dracaena godseffiana, Gynura aurantiaca (Purple Passion), and Hemigraphis alternata (Purple Waffle Plant) - the latter is commonly sold as an aquatic plant, even though it can't grow submersed.

Now I need to clean them thoroughly, separate into individual plants, plant them in planter cups, etc. This is really a fun project!


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

Thanks!


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

I got the planters in place today, using two of the Target plants, plus some I had in my 15H nursery tank. But, I'm out of nano rafts, so I couldn't complete the planting. Tomorrow I will order some more stuff. One thing that immediately shows up is the need for a good submersed planting when you reverse the golden ratio - more water, less air. Here is a head on view that emphasizes that:









I'm thinking that I will very soon go back to the conventional proportions - I also don't think the plants above the tank work as well as I expected, even though the picture exaggerates the washed out appearance without the black background above the tank.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

This is really a beautiful plant for a riparium, Hemigraphis alternata "purple waffle". The deeply rippled leaves with purple backs look great close up like you tend to look at a riparium. I need to get one of these in my 65 gallon tank, as soon as I get another planter cup.


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Yea I have to agree the reversed proportions just don't quite gel. 

The purple waffle is awesome... hadn't thought about trying target yet! At least I got room in the growout tank for trips like that now.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

I added some more plants today, some rocks on the substrate, and removed and washed the PFS substrate much more thoroughly. The water is still cloudy, so I have a jury rigged sponge filter going to try to get rid of the fine silt that is still left.

This concept of a deep water, shallow air section is growing on me. It allows me to use my little 10 gallon tank much more effectively as a riparium. And, if I can clear up the water it will allow more room for fish too. I'm really enjoying having the plants extending far out of the glass box, actually making the top edge of the tank disappear visually. If I had this many plants with the water down low like a "normal" riiparium it would look very crowded, but doesn't look crowded at all to me now. This opens up the riparium concept to a lot more shapes of tanks.


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

That really is successful. I had my doubts, but I think it looks real nice. 

This idea could be especially good for a tank with a broad footprint and short height relative to depth and length. This is most definitely going to be my next project.

I wonder how that _Croton_ is doing(?).


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## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

It has a very nice bouquet effect. I am not sold on the very "open" look underneath it though. But I think that is just my taste. It is certainly a very catchy little tank.

Just a side thought: I wonder if a nice thicket of anubia would tidy this up. Kind of creeping its way from the depths of the tank to the underside of the planters... 
Perhaps some really dense driftwood underneath, like an uber mass of it?? Have it penetrating with finer branches up through the planter baskets slightly...Give it the undeside root appearance of a plant that has no foliage underwater, but has bloomed above? Just spit balling here...


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Fish would also help to develop the vertical part of the underwater area.


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

Really inspiring\awsome tank Hoppy! Do you think the high water level idea would work for my 20g soon to be riparium (no plants yet)? I need to give my Convicts some more room! Thanks, Jake


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

JakeJ said:


> Really inspiring\awsome tank Hoppy! Do you think the high water level idea would work for my 20g soon to be riparium (no plants yet)? I need to give my Convicts some more room! Thanks, Jake


I think the high water level idea will work with any rimless tank, but not when there is a thick rim delineating the top of the box. When I look at my tank I just don't see the top of the glass at all, without searching for it.

As far as the underwater portion of the tank goes, I'm still working on that part. My cloudy water problem has to be solved first, and it doesn't look like the sponge filter is doing it for me. My next idea is to get a flocculant material at the LFS to clump the particles so the sponge will hold them better. That will be tomorrows experiment.

I'm also thinking about using 2-3 bigger fish, perhaps barbs (I know 3 barbs soon become 1 barb, but something that size-maybe just platys.) Part of my goal is to have sufficient swimming room for the fish, which eliminates having lots of wood there. And, I haven't yet decided about submersed plants. One thing at a time!


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## londonloco (Aug 25, 2005)

I love it. Once you get your water clear and fish in the bottom of that tank, it's going to be one beautiful tank, actually, it already is. My tank is not rimless, I'm hoping that thick black stripe I have to deal with doesn't detract from the tank too much. Hmmm, wonder where I can get a 18"x48" footprint rimless tank...:icon_lol:


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

So that _Hypoestes_ is still looking good? Has it grown new roots in the water?


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Since the first time I've seen one of these I've had this thought of trying to recreate a small bank with the underwater portion looking like mangrove roots to further create the illusion of the riverside. It seems like with the additional depth that this would be something that is totally possible. Only problem is finding wood that would work to create this effect. 









As far as fish what about a nice little school of cherry barbs?


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## will5 (Sep 30, 2005)

Hoppy said:


> I decided to use a RFUG to filter the water, because of the low maintenance they need, and the very clear water I'm getting in my 65 gallon riparium using one. This one will have no pre-filter, so it will get gunked up under the substrate sooner, but I doubt keeping this tank going that long anyway.
> 
> Today I installed 26 watt, GE 6500K light bulbs in the two reflectors, and measured the PAR they produce. To my surprise I get less PAR than measured with 23 watt bulbs by AirSong, in his stickie in the Lighting forum. It didn't take long to figure that out - my reflectors are 8.5 inches in diameter, and not great quality, while his were smaller, and probably of better surface quality. Still, I am getting over 100 micromols of PAR at the top of the tank, with the lights a foot above the tank, and the light is very uniform over the whole tank area. This is a good 10 gallon lighting method, if the appearance doesn't turn you off.
> 
> ...


What is an RFUG?


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

hydrophyte said:


> So that _Hypoestes_ is still looking good? Has it grown new roots in the water?


Yes, both in the planter cup and those that are just suspended in a raft now have roots hanging down in the water. And, the plants look very healthy. It's a winner!



will5 said:


> What is an RFUG?


*R*everse *F*low *U*nder *G*ravel filter, which is a conventional under gravel filter, except that the powerhead is reversed so it pumps water back down under the substrate, to flow up through the substrate.

My water is still cloudy this morning, so the flocculant is next. I really suspect that I just don't have sufficient substrate thickness to make this work right now. I may need to go buy another bag of PFS.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

The miracle of modern chemistry! Not that Tetra Water Clarifier is anything like new. I dosed the water with it, and an hour later the water was clear. So, I remved the filter sponge and washed it, smoothed the substrate a bit, making the water cloudy again. Back went the sponge, but it didn't clear more, so I dosed it again. Another 30 minutes and it was clear again.

I found I still had a little PFS left, so I washed it many, many times, added it to the tank, and again had cloudy water. Back came the sponge plus another dose of clarifier. This time it cleared up quickly and stayed that way when I replaced the stones on the substrate. Now it looks great, but I suspect I should do a 50% water change before adding any fish, to remove most of the left over clarifier.

I'm settling towards 3-4 Male Sunset Platys plus a couple of otocinclus to keep down any brown diatom algae.


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## limz_777 (Jun 29, 2005)

are those planter cups diy ?


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

The planter cups and the raft sponges come from http://www.ripariumsupply.com/, the only source for things like this that I know of. They work very well and make a nice integrated setup for a riparium.


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## limz_777 (Jun 29, 2005)

any close up shots to see how scaping is done?


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Hoppy had a good detail shot right here...



Hoppy said:


>


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

This shows some detail of the planter cups and rafts, and the next one shows how they attach to the glass.









You do realize, I hope, that this is like seeing a beautiful woman with half of her make-up on?


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## londonloco (Aug 25, 2005)

Ahem, bad form....lol....


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## limz_777 (Jun 29, 2005)

i see, i was wondering how those linear rows of plants was formed , there is even floating rafts , quite odd looking shape , any reason for its design?


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

The rafts are supposed to visually disappear in the tank. Something with regular geometric shape wouldn't do so, nor would a white raft, for example, so the rafts are a semi-random shape and a dark gray color. It works, because once the tank is fully planted and the plants get growing good, you never notice the rafts.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

I've been having an endless problem with cloudy water, so I'm giving up on expecting the RFUG to clear the water, and I bought a $15 Penn Plax 300 internal filter to do that job. That little filter comes with activated carbon and a sponge for filtering, so I dumped the AC and added a wad of filter floss instead. It seems to be working. Now, I have done a 50% water change to get rid of residual Water Clarifier, and perhaps tomorrow I can think about adding a few fish. Fish don't cost me anything since I have enough plants credits at one store to get almost any fish I would reasonably want free. And, I am very reasonable:icon_bigg


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## ayla (Oct 13, 2008)

Cool setup, I'm thinking about doing this. What is the planting material used in the plant baskets?


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

The planters are made of clear plastic, and they contain a layer of baked clay balls, Hydroton, and a layer of a substrate such as Flourite or SMS - inert, but with high CEC. Visit http://www.ripariumsupply.com/ to see more about the planters. Most of the planters also have a bit of fertilizer in them, Osmocote in my planters.


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## VincentK (Dec 16, 2009)

I really like your lighting idea, I'm just going to go ahead and steal it if ya don't mind =)


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Sure, steal away! This tank is now my nursery tank, no substrate, just water, light and a constantly changing group of plants. I still like the lighting very much. This sits on my desk close to my computer monitor,, and is usually the only light on in the room. I don't even see the hardware much now, which was what I was hoping for.


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## !shadow! (Jan 25, 2010)

Just read all 4 pages, l must say very nice job hoppy. l always wanted to create that look that mrjg was talking about. lf l was ever to do a riparium i'd probably buy this tank:

http://www.greenleafaquariums.com/glass-rimless-aquariums/rimless-aquarium-91-b.html

Only thing about it is the height of it. 9.4 inches seems a bit short, but what it lacks in height it makes up for in length. l can see a tons of plants lined up on the far back. Who knows maybe someday..


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

That 91-B is only 8 inches front-to-back. For ripariums it is really best to have as much depth as possible so that you can fit the planters and still have some room in the foreground for open water.

The 63-S would be a much better choice.

http://www.greenleafaquariums.com/glass-rimless-aquariums/rimless-aquarium-63-s.html






*


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

You could possibly use the 91-B with all low growing plants along the back, like African Violets, for example. And, keep the tank filled to within an inch of the top, to get enough water for fish down below. It would definitely be a riparium of another kind.


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## !shadow! (Jan 25, 2010)

What can l say, l like to break the rules  lt's also very suitable for an iwagumi type scape.


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## accordztech (Dec 6, 2004)

nice setup!

the pool filter sand, how thick is it compared to regular play sand or flourite?


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Pool filter sand looks like about 1-3 mm particle size. Play sand is generally much finer, too fine for a planted tank, in my opinion, but I know some people use it successfully. Flourite is larger particles, but Flourite sand is about the same as pool filter sand, or a bit finer.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

Hoppy said:


>


Hoppy - Nice!

Please don't take this wrong but, I was kind of expecting something a little more "creative" as a solution to mounting those lights. I remember a few thousand posts ago you showed us a DIY articulated arm you built. I was very impressed with that one. 

If I see your name on DIY, I go there 1st. So, tell me do you have a pro to-type on the drawing board on on the work bench? :wink:


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I like it and you can't do all of them the same, plus this is a good cheap model that gives you a background and a bracket to hold the lighting.

Hoppy did you make the RFUG, I like the layout?


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