# Apistogramma cacatuoides "Double Red"



## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

I have them in a tank with shrimp that are almost as big as they are. I've had the shrimp for a while. It's a trio, one male, they pretty much ignore everything else in the tank at the moment, just a lot of displays to each other. I think all bets will be off, however, when they start spawning.


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## Raul-7 (Oct 17, 2003)

These are one of the easiet Apisto's to breed, and of course are one of the most colorful. They readily breed in most water parameters, ranging from soft/acidic to slighly aklanine/moderate. Good females seem to deliver a high percentage of high-quality fry. And when wild males breed with quality females; you'll get the most quality batch of fry. You need "dither" and "target" fish. For the dither type I recommend a peaceful, timid Tetra(ie. Neons, Diamonds,etc.) and for the target fish, you need fish that are colorful and "light-up" during breeding(ie. Pencilfish, Cherry Barbs, etc.) Good luck with them...I'm sure you'll enjoy them! 

:!: This particular species of Apistogramma does better in harems, rather than pairs...the other females keeps the male busy while the other female tends to her eggs and fry.


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

Thanks Raul, that's good info on the harem.


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

These look nasty man...


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## Raul-7 (Oct 17, 2003)

Nasty?! I mean Apisto's aren't nasty, especially A.cacatuoides. They have the most beautiful strains in the world of Apistos...


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

That's just a male in full display, all 3 inches of him.


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

Looks like it can take your hand off from the picture...


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## Left C (Nov 15, 2003)

Nordic! How big is your hand? 25mm?


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## GulfCoastAquarian (Jul 30, 2002)

That's not a triple red, though. Check this guy out! I want one of these in the worst way but my LFS can't get them in! Rex you're a lucky dude - grab them before they're gone!


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## Raul-7 (Oct 17, 2003)

Sam, why not just buy them from that site, he sells the pair for $20? The picture of A.caca off thekrib.com is a Triple Red, right? I'm going to have harem of Triple Red or A.borelli, but I can't make up my mind...but they say if you have soft, acidic water most of the fry will be female while if it's slight harder most will be males!


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## GulfCoastAquarian (Jul 30, 2002)

Raul, he does have some gorgeous Apistos on that site, at reasonable prices, but the price of shipping has kept me from ever mail-ordering fish. I may end up resorting to that option in the long run, but Rex sure is lucky to find them locally.

Borelli's are my second choice. They sure do have some intense dorsal rays!


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Awesome images...

How do those borelli/cacatuoides get along with Rams (and other peaceful fishes)? My LFS has borellis for sale, although not in the best shape...


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## Raul-7 (Oct 17, 2003)

I wouldn't recommend keep Apistos and Rams together due to the rise in agression. Rams are peaceful, while Apistos are quite aggressive during breeding and could tear a Ram apart..


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## pufferfreak (Oct 19, 2003)

I am going to get a trio fof Cacatuoides for my 29, 1 male and 2 felmales, and just let them breed, so the male will be in bright colors all the time. There great, but i will have to order them online. lol


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

Thanks for the info. I'm pretty much stuck with a 20 high which has a 24"X12" foot print. I may just get a pair. I was thinking of some small Tetras or pencil fish for the top of the tank.


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## 2la (Aug 18, 2002)

If the tank is large enough a pair each of Borelli's apistos and rams can coexist fine.


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## Raul-7 (Oct 17, 2003)

Really, then why did someone mis-inform me on another board and tell me there would be too much aggression...So does my 50g list seem ok?
After 1 week: 
·5 Otos 
·6 Cherry Shrimp 
After 2 weeks: 
·8 Diamond Tetra 
·6 Beckford's Pencilfish 
·7 Penguin Tetra 
After 3 weeks: 
·6 Sterba Cory 
·1 Zebra Pleco 
After 4 weeks: 
·Apistogramma borelli (pair) 
·German Blue Rams (pair)


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## 2la (Aug 18, 2002)

Raul-7 said:


> Really, then why did someone mis-inform me on another board and tell me there would be too much aggression...quote]
> I don't know, but I can hardly blame him/her. I use to feel the same way--that apistos were too aggressive and overpowering to be kept with rams in any tank. But not all apistos are created equally (I'd be less inclined to try it with Inca 50s, for example), and a large enough tank goes quite a ways in leveling the playing field. With an adequately varied hardscape, I'd be surprised if any harm came to either of your dwarf cichlid species.
> 
> There are very few hard-and-fast rules in fishkeeping (such as harem versus pairwise spawning in borellii, which is why I said they're _really_ not harem spawners, realizing that apistos can be individualistic and that things can change in the artificial conditions with which we keep fish), and experience teaches you to raise a skeptical eyebrow when a statement is too absolute or fails to mention the relavant exceptions to the rules.


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## 2la (Aug 18, 2002)

Another example of the individual variability in cichlids. Many people, including Takashi Amano, have kept rams with Amano shrimp without any problems whatsoever, and I'll attest to the compatibility of shrimps with A. borellii. Perhaps the best route would be to test things out with a ghost shrimp (or other cheaper option) first before loading your tank up with cherry reds.


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## Raul-7 (Oct 17, 2003)

Thanks for the tips guyz, I think I'll try some Ghost shrimp to see if they get torn apart before I go with the Cherries..


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Just as an FYI.. I had my LFS mess up the sexing of some A.cacatuoides. I had a pair in with a pair of blue rams and wanted another couple of females to get the level of aggression down. But rather than getting two additional females, I had two more males... for a total of 3 males and 1 female in the same 20g tank as a pair of rams. Now here is the kicker...

The aggression went down! I don't know if they were so over crowded that that just chilled out or what. But 3 males and 1 female were a lot more "agreeable" with other fish than when there was just a pair.

But that was just my experience. I'm sure mileage would vary. And BTW... cherry shrimp were an expensive form of food, while my Amano's were ignored.


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

A friend just gave me a triple-red female to go along with the four cacatuoides (1m, 3f) I have in my 125g tank. The females have started to stake their claims section of the tank, and the male seems to have chosen the largest female to court. He and that female spend a lot of time chasing the other females to the other side of the tank.


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## Adrian (Aug 17, 2005)

I just recently introduced a pair of Apsito. Agassizii to a tank that was already "claimed" by a pair of Golden Dwarf cichlids (Nannacara anomala)...not a brilliant thing to do...they fight like mad. Some clashes become uncontrollably violent and leave battle scars. I may remove them...damn that LFS idiot! 

The Cockatoo cichlids behave in typical Apisto fashion-peaceful toward other species but intolerant of its own in a confined space. They appreciate live foods but accept commercial preporations. The aquarium should be well-filtered and generously planted with ample shelter (caves [staggered slate]). A fine-grained substratum is also recommended.

These cichlids are, IMMHO, the most rewarding specimens to keep in an aquarium. 

cheers


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

I just bought a beautiful pair (male and female) of double reds. Love this slow fish. They really like the stargrass right now and seem to be exibiting interest in each other. The first few days the male chased the gal away, but that has changed. I do see the male scraping sideways on the gravel sometimes. What does this behavior indicate. Fungus? 

They get along fine with Neons, Rainbowfish, a juvenile Angel and Black Neons, Corys, Amanos, and some young Clowns loaches etc. No problem so far. I plan on getting a couple more females and maybe make some caves too. But I'll wait and make sure everything is cool, before popping for another $20 pair of females. bob


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## hir0 (Nov 3, 2005)

I had a trio of these in my tank before. Actually it was a double red male, and two yellow/gold "orange flash" females. They didn't really bother the other fish - but they did nip @ the legs on my shrimp, and they were only about 1.5" at the time. I removed them. They were great fish to have, but I wanted to keep my shrimp in there.


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## mrbelvedere (Nov 15, 2005)

I bought a pair from sailfin for 25 dollars. The male promptly died, despite my trying to accommodate the needs of the fish. My pH was 6.8, the temp was 79, and my tank water has almost no hardness whatsoever. The female is doing well, however. It was a great fish while it lasted.


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

According to the aged Baench Aquarium Atlas, Apistogramma cacatuoides does well in soft to moderately hard water, even for breeding. And as they are now captive bred, I imagine they can do fine in upto 10dGH. The temp for them is recommended and 76 to 78 degrees F. according to the that atlas. But my first Apisto caca died shortly after I recieved it. I thinik my tank parms are better now, and the fish I bought this time had been in the LFS for quite a few months, which may have helped.


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## cbennett (Oct 20, 2005)

I had a wild cac male with 2 triple-red females in my 25 gal long tank, they were fine with the other fish (cardinals, otocinclus, ancistrus) but they were questionable with my amanos. They didn't actually kill any but my male would try to take a nip if they got too near. Amanos learned to keep away from him and were fine but YMMV.


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Whats YMMV?


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## tazcrash69 (Sep 27, 2005)

Betowess said:


> Whats YMMV?


Your Mileage May Vary


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## robert (Sep 13, 2005)

Hey Rex, thought I'd chime in here since you've (indirectly) helped me so much! I have a breeding pair of these in my 40 long. Great fish and very interesting to watch. The female gets to be a bright vivid yellow when she has fry. And boy does she get vicious then. NOBODY get's near her or her fry after she's taken them out to search for food. Amazing. I've got their first batch (4 lone survivors) still in my 10 that I am trying to get rid of. I have my primary apisto's in there (pandurini's) that I'm sure will produce some sweet looking fish once they get the chance. thanks again, and hope that helps. Great fish!


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Robert, just curious... What are your water parms? Did you build her a cave? Thanks. bob


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## robert (Sep 13, 2005)

Well, if I did, it wasn't on purpose. I just got some good looking pieces of wood together and lined the center (it's not that wide) of the 40 gallon. Taller on one end, and it gradually goes down. I'm sure there's nooks and crannies in there. Heh, there must be because when they do spawn, I don't see her for a good week or two. I haven't checked my parameters in a while. If you're really interested, I'll do it tomorrow when I wake up.


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Yeah, just a general pH/KH Gh parm if you have time. No big deal. BTW, here are some pics I posted in the photo section with pictures of my double red and his sole girlfriend. Since nobody seemed to notice them in the 12 hours they had on that overactive thread's page one, I thought I would post them here for the Apisto fan club.









I would like to see them breed, if possible. Here is a picture with his lady and pearling bubbles.


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## robert (Sep 13, 2005)

That looks like a triple red to me. You know those exist as well, right? Double's are usually the dorsal and tail fins. Mine are. Triples look identical to what those pictures depict. Clearly markings on the anal fin. Beautiful fish. Nice pic as well. Is that an endler I see, or is that something else? I like it whatever it is. I'll get those readings for you tomorrow!


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Thanks for the clarification. I was wondering about that myself as I had noticed the same, but believed what the LFS told me. This is my first Apisto pair. That other fish is a Rasbora (Hengeli species I believe). No rush on the parms, just curious. Thanks.


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## robert (Sep 13, 2005)

I'm a little anxious to know too as I haven't tested since I went pressurized with my Co2.


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

From all I've read, the variants of cacatuoides don't breed true so what may have started as a brood from a double-red pair could very well have produced a triple-red—probably a few wilds, too.


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

robert said:


> I'm a little anxious to know too as I haven't tested since I went pressurized with my Co2.


Yeah, in W. WA its a good idea to keep an eye on your KH with pressurized. You might need to add some calcium carbonate material to replace that being used by the CO2.


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## robert (Sep 13, 2005)

KH = 5
GH = 9
pH = 7

= )


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## banderbe (Oct 10, 2005)

Raul-7 said:


> I wouldn't recommend keep Apistos and Rams together due to the rise in agression. Rams are peaceful, while Apistos are quite aggressive during breeding and could tear a Ram apart..


I have kept a pair of apisto. cacatuoides with a pair of microgeophagus altispinosa with no problems at all.


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## emoore3 (Oct 18, 2003)

banderbe said:


> I have kept a pair of apisto. cacatuoides with a pair of microgeophagus altispinosa with no problems at all.


Did the apistogrammas breed and what size tank was it? I had a pair of Apistogramma borelli and Microgeophagus rameriz in a 29 gallon. They got along fine until the borelli started breeding. The rams got beat up pretty badly and I had to move them to another tank.


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## banderbe (Oct 10, 2005)

emoore3 said:


> Did the apistogrammas breed and what size tank was it? I had a pair of Apistogramma borelli and Microgeophagus rameriz in a 29 gallon. They got along fine until the borelli started breeding. The rams got beat up pretty badly and I had to move them to another tank.


No, my pH is about 8.0 so they won't breed.

I noticed the poster was talking about breeding after my post and yeah during breeding they can be pretty vicious.


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## cousin it (Nov 1, 2002)

> as a brood from a double-red pair could very well have produced a triple-red


If you keep at it you might even get a triple solid red ( no black markings in the fins ) out of a brood, they are stunning.


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## Shanon (Dec 27, 2005)

How long does it usually take for them to mature to the point where you can sex them?


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

You can sex them at around 1" or so. The amount of time that it takes for them to reach this size is really dependent on quite a few factors, so it could range any where from about 2 months and on.


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## Dragonfish (Apr 28, 2011)

Sorry to drag up an old thread, but what should I look for to sex mine? I bought a trio but one of the two "female" fish has more male coloring.


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## Plant keeper (Jan 27, 2011)

Dragonfish said:


> Sorry to drag up an old thread, but what should I look for to sex mine? I bought a trio but one of the two "female" fish has more male coloring.


Here a male and female


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## Dragonfish (Apr 28, 2011)

Would you happen to know what the ideal ph is for them? Or maybe a page I can read more about them? Thanks!


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