# Best substrate for the money



## dcutl002 (Apr 8, 2014)

My opinion. Carib Sea EcoComplete.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

Eco complete is probably your best bet for something with nutrients.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## Andyntx (Nov 12, 2014)

I am using flora max in my 5.5 but I think its a little big in grain size for stem plants...

Bump: Is it ok to use a flora max or eco complete and add some sand to it a better grain size???


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## Androider4Life (Feb 4, 2013)

switching to EcoComplete..anything I can sprinkle down under the EcoComplete to help plant growth? I have a can of osmocote pellets that I was using for capsule. I don't think my LPS's sell flourite if that's what people will suggest lol


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## cgorges (Sep 9, 2014)

Black Diamond. $9 per 50lb bag.


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## Andyntx (Nov 12, 2014)

cgorges said:


> Black Diamond. $9 per 50lb bag.


is this like the blasting sand???


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## cgorges (Sep 9, 2014)

Yep. Ive got 100lbs in my 75 gal low tech. Took a while to rinse but the money saved was worth it. Depending on what your doing, a couple root tabs and your good to go. Ive got peppered, juli, and habrosus cories, and kuhli loaches that dig in it and can say for a fact that there is no truth to any of the myths about it being bad for fish an ruining barbels.


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## Androider4Life (Feb 4, 2013)

I used the black diamond sand blasting sand before.. You have be careful in a tank that has that substrate cause during routine cleaning if the smallest particles get under say a magnetic glass scrubber or sponge it will scratch the crap out of the glass.


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

Androider4Life said:


> I used the black diamond sand blasting sand before.. You have be careful in a tank that has that substrate cause during routine cleaning if the smallest particles get under say a magnetic glass scrubber or sponge it will scratch the crap out of the glass.


 
True Dat.
I use a clean paper towel folded into fourths.
Get a better feel for anything that might get between the paper towel and the glass.
Try not to get too close to substrate.
Same could be said for nearly any substrate.


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## Nuthatch (Jun 18, 2014)

Andyntx- did you see that there are 2 sizes of the EcoComplete? One maxes out at 7mm, the other at 3mm. Is the 3mm still to large for you?


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## Andyntx (Nov 12, 2014)

Nuthatch said:


> Andyntx- did you see that there are 2 sizes of the EcoComplete? One maxes out at 7mm, the other at 3mm. Is the 3mm still to large for you?


I know the red comes 3mm... I am looking for black.
I mostly want something easy to plant in the flora max is hard to plant in.


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## Drewsplantednutz (Jan 25, 2012)

Best=ADA. and having a 36 bow your shouldnt have as big as a footprint to fill in as opposed to a 40 breeder. I have 2 shrimp tanks right now, one 8g Amazonia and one 20g Africana, the ADA has kept the Africana tank perfect for a year now, the amazonia i just set up. But will be breaking the africana tank down to set up a 29g planted tank ( miss having fish and plants to trim). The new 29g will be filled with Flourite Black which is less than half the price and they say it has a long lifetime ( they say it never needs replacement, but I have no exp with it). My friend has a 36 bow tank, its pretty tall and he doesnt have efficient lights on it to get good lighting all the way to the bottom. If you go with ADA, what plants are you looking at and how much light do you have?


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## Option (Oct 2, 2010)

Flourite for sure. The plants grow great in this stuff. Only downside to fourite is that it's so fine that new (unrooted) plants have trouble anchoring down. But after they root in this is the best substrate for the price, IMO.


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## Kathyy (Feb 22, 2010)

Best would be ADA Aqua Soil but you are dealing with real soil and there is supposed to be quite a steep learning curve with the stuff, it is far from being magic! It is about the same price per liter as the other soil based products.

Cheap and very good would be one of the high CEC clay products used off label. I think SafeTSorb is very attractive and is extremely cheap. $6 from Tractor Supply for enough to set up a 75 gallon tank. It is too light weight for some, there is a lot of dust to rinse off and many people prefer a darker substrate but the varied tones of gray/tan/brown look really natural to my eye. If you have to have black then pay extra for one of the products sold in pet stores for planted tanks but they aren't any better for growing plants.


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## flight50 (Apr 17, 2012)

Option said:


> Flourite for sure. The plants grow great in this stuff. Only downside to fourite is that it's so fine that new (unrooted) plants have trouble anchoring down. But after they root in this is the best substrate for the price, IMO.


My vote is with Flourite as well. Its high cation, variety of colors and it holds plants quite well. Eco is its equal but you will have problems keeping some plants rooted. One con between Eco and Flourite is the dust. Don't let that discourage you though. There a ways to minimize the clouding of your tank. Also a bag of Flourite is all Flourite. Eco has water weight that they sell you. A tank will cycle naturally so I can't say that what they add, is worth the price to justify the price per pound with Eco vs Flourite.

Aquasoil is one of the best overall but it comes at a step price. The larger the footprint or for multiple tanks, the more holes you will have in your wallet. Aquasoil also breaks down over time unlike Flourite or Eco.

Everything you get here will all be opinions. The topic has been shared many many times on this forum. You can use the search feature to broaden your knowledge and then determine what works best for you.


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## pheo (Nov 28, 2014)

The only planted specific substrate that i have or use is some stuff i got at my LFS called ActiveFlora and Flourite Black Sand. I would say any of these mid to fine grain high CEC inert substrates would do you right. A lot of people seem to have good luck with blasting sand as well.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

flight50 said:


> My vote is with Flourite as well. Its high cation, variety of colors and it holds plants quite well.


Hi All,

I agree with flight50 that Flourite is nice and heavy and holds plants well but it does not have a high cation exchange capacity (CEC). Flourite CEC = 1.7; Sand CEC = 0.1; Montmorillonite clay products CEC = 30-40. And Montmorillonite clay products are inexpensive; for example Safe-T-Sorb #7941 costs $5.99 for a 40# bag at Tractor Supply and it looks good too.

Sorry for the small size; Flourite is #19









10 gallon; no CO2; 2X10 watt CFL; Safe-T-Sorb #7941


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## Whjdm069 (Dec 14, 2013)

I'm a fan of eco complete. I like the fact that it is black but not completely black. It is harder to plant in but once it's been up and running for a while it gets easier to plant in. I've read if you want easy planting to use dirt. 
I've used sand and florite both with success. What I like about eco is its cec capacity. I dose using ei and have used root tabs with success. You can get good deals on eco thru amazon and That fish place. The other nice thing is no rinsing unless you choose to. This is just one persons opinion. Good luck on what ever you decide.


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## kittenfish (Feb 6, 2014)

Seattle_Aquarist, have you had problems with Safe-T-Sorb softening your water?


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## flight50 (Apr 17, 2012)

I have heard great success stories with Active Flora as well. The problem is getting your hands on it. 

That chart looks flawed in my opinion. Looks like a typo for Flourite for sure. There is no way Flourite is 1.7 for cation. I doubt River Rock actually has that huge difference for cation than Flourite. Reference this sticky, http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=153412. It sums up most of the substrates we use today. High cation just means it has the better abilities to hold nutrients for plant consumption.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi All,

@Kittenfish, yes it does lower the dKH (carbonate hardness) for the first several months until it reaches equilibrium.

@All, the information in the table came from a seven page (pgs 17-23) article published in Planted Aquaria magazine put out by the Aquatic Gardener's Association / AGA in the summer of 2000. Information regarding the testing procedure can be found in the article; a download .pdf copy of the issue of PAM can be found here. I have read the thread referenced above in the past; unfortunately many folks tend to just repeat what they read or what someone else has told them and don't bother to do the research for themselves.


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## pheo (Nov 28, 2014)

flight50 said:


> I have heard great success stories with Active Flora as well. The problem is getting your hands on it.
> 
> That chart looks flawed in my opinion. Looks like a typo for Flourite for sure. There is no way Flourite is 1.7 for cation. I doubt River Rock actually has that huge difference for cation than Flourite. Reference this sticky, http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=153412. It sums up most of the substrates we use today. High cation just means it has the better abilities to hold nutrients for plant consumption.


Wow, that link really covers all the bases, huh?


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## Kathyy (Feb 22, 2010)

I don't see any reference to how the CEC of Flourite was found in that TPT thread. Here is a link shows the method and results of a small experiment. http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Fertilizer/substrate-jamie.html 
"CEC (me./100g) Matrix
- -----------------------------------------------------
<0.1 Clean sand
24.3 Soil
27.0 Litter
1.7 Fluorite"

The natural river rock is a calcined clay and that sort of product is high in CEC.


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## flight50 (Apr 17, 2012)

Hmmm, that has me wondering. I guess I learn a little something everyday around here. Flourite is a clay and majority of clay substrates have good cec. Its always been stated that Flourite is a high cation substrate so that's what I went with. Its even stated by many of the more knowledgeable members on here. I wonder if all Flourite is the same in regards to cation. According to Seachem's website, the minerals in it varies so perhaps the cation could as well based on which version of Flourite is used. What's is puzzle is why isn't Eco on that list. Its among the common substrates used in the hobby.


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## Kathyy (Feb 22, 2010)

Check the date, all that information is quite old. Maybe it predates eco complete.

Maybe the test needs to be repeated? Maybe hard clay doesn't have as high CEC as softer material?

Pretty bad that Seachem hasn't done its own testing of the substrate.


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## Raith (Jun 27, 2014)

Is Flourite heavier than EC? I have EC on both tanks, and it is pretty light, HARD to plant and keep plants in, only when it is rooted does it stay intact.


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## flight50 (Apr 17, 2012)

Raith said:


> Is Flourite heavier than EC? I have EC on both tanks, and it is pretty light, HARD to plant and keep plants in, only when it is rooted does it stay intact.


Yes EC is lighter. That is one of the cons of it vs other substrates. As mentioned above, its can be difficult for some plants to stay put in EC.


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## Raith (Jun 27, 2014)

I know EC is light, that's why I asked, if it was lighter than Flourite. Seems like they're pretty much the same $$ does Flourite leech ammonia like ADA AS?


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## flight50 (Apr 17, 2012)

There is nothing organic in Flourite so ammonia leeching is non existent. EC and Flourite might cost the same but the difference is the price per lb. Flourite is sold dry for the most part in 15.4 lb bags. EC is sold wet in 20 lb bags. Usually it take more EC to cover the same footprint that it would take to cover with Flourite. For a standard 40g breeder 18x36 at a 2" depth, it takes 72lbs of EC vs 45lbs of Flourite.


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## Raith (Jun 27, 2014)

flight50 said:


> There is nothing organic in Flourite so ammonia leeching is non existent. EC and Flourite might cost the same but the difference is the price per lb. Flourite is sold dry for the most part in 15.4 lb bags. EC is sold wet in 20 lb bags. Usually it take more EC to cover the same footprint that it would take to cover with Flourite. For a standard 40g breeder 18x36 at a 2" depth, it takes 72lbs of EC vs 45lbs of Flourite.


Great information, just a question about it, I guess it is because being sold dry, the substrate is compact.


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## GoodOldDays (Mar 24, 2014)

Is my thinking correct----- any substrate that includes nutrients will wear out over, say a 4/5 month period and then root tabs will be necessary? Correct?why not save the $$ and start with Black Diamond at under $10 per bag?


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## HybridHerp (May 24, 2012)

GoodOldDays said:


> Is my thinking correct----- any substrate that includes nutrients will wear out over, say a 4/5 month period and then root tabs will be necessary? Correct?why not save the $$ and start with Black Diamond at under $10 per bag?


because if you start with a nutritious substrate you can keep those nutrients there while using root tabs and dosing as well.

personally I think the best substrate is going to be MTS capped with sand of some sort. although I do see the benefits of things like amazonia if you're starting a tank from scratch and don't mind the price.


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