# Potassium deficiency?



## Wö£fëñxXx

If you are dosing potassium then you aren't
deficient in potassium.

When you say entire Flourish line do you mean 
NPK and Trace? if so then you have a C02 problem 
which is usually the problem.

Add Excel to your regime or another bottle of 
DIY yeast.

You do know that DIY gas is not real consistant
so this is more than likely your problem.


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## legomaniac89

This is my fertilizer list...
DIY co2 system - about 12 hours a day, disconnected at night.
Flourish Excel - 3ml daily
Flourish Potassium - 4ml 3x a week
Flourish Iron - 1ml 2x a week
Flourish supplement - 1.5ml 2x a week
Flourish Nitrogen - 1ml 2x a week
Flourish fert tabs at base of Lotus

I thought originally that co2 was the problem but since i've started using the DIY system, all the plants are growing much faster and thicker. The Lotus is included, but the older leaves just seem to disintegrate after a while. Plus the DIY system gives me about 1-2 bubbles a second.


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## Wö£fëñxXx

OKay, now we are getting somewhere, you need 
to add phosphorus/phosphate, then you will see 
even better results.


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## legomaniac89

Thought that might be it, thanks. I was kind of afraid to add phosphorus too much because it is usually a factor in an algae bloom


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## Wö£fëñxXx

That is bad information, whomever you heard 
that from is ignorant of facts.


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## legomaniac89

It's just that high phosphorus levels usually cause an algae bloom. I've read of several people who've started dosing phosphorus and then had a massive algae explosion in their tank, including a friend of mine.

Now that i think about it, my plants are growing so fast they would probably out-compete algae for any nutrients anyway. Plus there's the whole "allelopathy" theory that could limit algae growth too.

Anyway, I'll start dosing phosphorus and see what happens. Thanks


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## Left C

This Seachem fert calculator may help you.

The FertFriend calculator may help as well.


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## jahwork

According to Chuck at http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_nutrient.htm
Pinholes appearing on old leaves and then spreading, he believes to be potassium deficiency.


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## Wö£fëñxXx

So, you are saying that according to chuck even 
though he is dosing potassium 3x a week and no 
phosphate he should dose more potassium!?

He didn't say he had a pinhole problem
but that the leaves would disintegrate.

4ml of potassium is not a lot I would agree,
but before I simply ignored the fact that
no phosphate is being dosed to dose more
potassium, I would not write it off as chuck said.


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## legomaniac89

I am going to start dosing phosphorus regularly, but all the signs seem to point to potassium deficiency. 

The leaves would develop one or two small holes, then the holes would grow and spread until the leaf would just disintegrate.


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## legomaniac89

Maybe i could start dosing 5ml of K, or should i dose K daily instead of 3x a week?


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## plantbrain

legomaniac89 said:


> It's just that high phosphorus levels usually cause an algae bloom. I've read of several people who've started dosing phosphorus and then had a massive algae explosion in their tank, including a friend of mine.
> 
> Now that i think about it, my plants are growing so fast they would probably out-compete algae for any nutrients anyway. Plus there's the whole "allelopathy" theory that could limit algae growth too.
> 
> Anyway, I'll start dosing phosphorus and see what happens. Thanks


Well, then where my algae when I add 3-5 ppm per week?










Been this way for nearly 15 years............still think high PO4 causes algae or might it just be something else that you or friends, or those you are talking to overlooked?

I know I'm adding pure bioavailable PO4 in the form of KH2PO4 into the water column.

How can it induce algae as claimed unless I also get it?
Tap water is not a factor, after 15 years, perhaps 60 reps(different tanks), I think you can figure out that the notion high PO4 = algae CANNOT possibly be correct.

Note: I'm not suggesting what causes algae here, that's an entire other question, I'm just saying there is no way that high or excess PO4 induces algae in a planted tank.

Where did you hear this from?
This idea is about 10-15 years old now.

Dosing 3x a week vs daily is not going to make any differences with K+.
The effective range is about 5-10ppm to 100ppm.
Plants are not going to use more than 2-3 ppm in 2-3 days at most. 

Most use KNO3 and KH2PO4, the amount of K+ in these relative to N and PO4 are plenty, about 4x the demand relative to N.

So basically you do not need to add extra K+ on top dosing these two. you can if you want, but it will not solve the issue

Many folks mistake K+ for CO2 related issues or sometimes Mg.

Say if you are K+ limited, adding more will induce stunting or algae, then it's likely a CO2 issue, not excess K+........but folks get mixed easily and make assumptions.



Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## legomaniac89

I stand corrected. And the book I like to read (Ecology of the Planted Aquarium, Diana Walstad) is about 8 years old, so that explains that idea too. She mentions excess phosphorus not used by plants _could_ trigger algae growth, but not always. Plus, on smaller aquarium sites, you hear algae horror stories about people who add phosphorus and get an explosion of green water. Obviously they did something wrong or way overdosed.

Anyway, I am still looking for a definite answer about my Lotus. 

BTW, nice plants Tom.


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## legomaniac89

Also, anyone have any experience with getting a Nymphaea species to flower? My friend said he started adding Nitrogen and Molybdenum (Flourish Trace) and his flowered, but this could just be coincidence.


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## Wö£fëñxXx

I've never let a Lotus grow large enough, but from what 
I have read and seen you have to let it grow to and out
of the surface.

I do not like posting on assumption, but I felt like 
jumping out of the box this once :flick:


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## mistergreen

I did let mine grow out... But no flower.. I think mucho lights, CO2, ferts and let it grow out should do it.


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## plantbrain

legomaniac89 said:


> I stand corrected. And the book I like to read (Ecology of the Planted Aquarium, Diana Walstad) is about 8 years old, so that explains that idea too. She mentions excess phosphorus not used by plants _could_ trigger algae growth, but not always. Plus, on smaller aquarium sites, you hear algae horror stories about people who add phosphorus and get an explosion of green water. Obviously they did something wrong or way overdosed.
> 
> Anyway, I am still looking for a definite answer about my Lotus.
> 
> BTW, nice plants Tom.


Well , she wisely left a back door out for herself there.
The material is 2-5 years old by the time you write the book and a few months or a years even before you publish. I have a draft, but it'll be 2 years before I get it to press.

Correlation does not = cause.

You also need ot measure the total amount of PO4 in the water smaple.
Obviously, algae have a lot more PO4 locked up inside it that the water itself and plants are often not sampled(but algae are). so this leads folks to assume PO4 is well correlated with algae dominance in tropical lakes or streams.

If you filter the water to remove the algae, or add the PO4 fraction to include the larger plants, this is no relationship.

That was shown in the research some 20+ years ago.
Philips et al, 1978, published a good paper, but over looked this aspect.
Bachmann et al 1984-2004, did not make this mistake. They also looked at over 400+ lakes with plants and without, in Florida.

You just had to know where to look.
Today, looking is easy. Google Scholar etc.

I do not know of a single aquarist that's ever filtered out GW and then taken the PO4 reading.

It's somewhat of a revelation to new aquarist when hear different things and folks in the know straighten them out

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## PRESTON4479

Wö£fëñxXx said:


> I've never let a Lotus grow large enough, but from what
> I have read and seen you have to let it grow to and out
> of the surface.
> 
> I do not like posting on assumption, but I felt like
> jumping out of the box this once :flick:


This has been my experience Craig. The few plants that have flowered for me I just let grow out and do what they want. Never trimmed them. I guess their happiest when they are left alone. 
My lotus has never flowered. Although I do keep it trimmed back. Otherwise it blocks too much light.


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## legomaniac89

The Lotus actually came from the friend I mentioned earlier. The tank it was in had nearly identical parameters to mine and he said it would send up 3 floating leaves, then it would flower. 

As of now, it has about 12 floating leaves and about 8 submersed leaves.

Just thought of this...does the tank have to be open-topped? Mine has a glass cover. I'd gladly stand the light on legs and remove the cover if that meant the Lotus would flower.

I have about 2.4wpg, DIY co2 and Flourish Excel, plenty of ferts (except for this dumb deficiency I can't figure out), and it's definitely grown out, so I don't know. Maybe I'm just unlucky or something. Also, I never trim it unless the leaves are dying.

I know Molybdenum def has something to do with inhibiting flowering, but it should be getting enough. The supplement has Molybdenum, plus I'm going to start dosing Trace once I find it and probably drop the supplement completely.

I'll focus on that once I figure out what it's deficient in now. Maybe if we figure it out, it'll flower? Wishful thinking. Kill two birds with one stone with that one lol.


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