# Are German Blue Rams that difficult to keep?



## psych (Jan 7, 2013)

I've actually found this to be pretty much the opposite. My rams were second in the tank, only to Cory's. One died because of my stupidity and the other seemed to both have a defect when purchased and was initially bullied. Had it not been for my stupid mistakes I think they would both be alive. This would have killed any fish though and I don't think it speaks to their being sensitive. 

I think a lot of their alleged sensitivity comes from people's poor planning. Make sure the tank is cycled, your temperature is adequate, and other parameters are within range and they'll be fine. The range of water in which they thrive might be smaller, but this is again down to planning. A good captive raised stock already acclimated to your water would help even more.


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## EndlerGame (Oct 19, 2013)

I got a breeding pair for a 55g community with Cardinals and Angels, fish that enjoy the same water conditions. Additionally, the fish were bred locally by a hobbyist and sold to my LFS, so they were bread and raised in water similar to mine. I had them for a little over a month, they were active and colorful, eating well, but not resuming breeding behavior. However, after 5 weeks or so, one of the fish just died, no idea why. A week or two later, the other passed away. Don't know if I did something wrong, or the fish were really just that sensitive?


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## zuc (Mar 29, 2012)

I agree with Psych in that you need an established tank before you put them in. 
But my experience with them is that they wouldn't eat a lot of what I gave them. I tried pellets and live food, but they either spit those out or ignore them. Then when I finally gave them something they did like (Tetra granules), they got bored of it after a few days of feeding them it. 
I don't know what their problem was, as my water parameters were good. I thought maybe it was a bacterial infection that stopped them from eating, so I tried to treat them, but that did not work. Maybe it simply was just their previous care that screwed with them, which I heard from multiple places is a common problem.


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## FewestKitten896 (Dec 13, 2013)

So is it super necessary for them to be in 80 degree plus water? From research where they are found the water is relatively warm however does the tank bred specimens require as warm of water or will upper 70's i.e. 78 degrees, be fine? Thanks for all your help!


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

Soft acidic water,mature tank, and temp of 80 degree's for best success.


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## IDR (Apr 12, 2014)

This all depends on what care level you put into housing them. They like pristine and warm water. This is something people seem not to understand from the perspective that _all_ fish like pristine water. There are no fish that like dirty water. Some are simply better equipped to handle less-than-pristine conditions, should you be a lazy aquarist regarding water changes, filtration, etc.

German Blue Rams come from the warmer waters of the Río Orinoco in Venezuela and Columbia, which are mostly flooded plains and forests. The waters in this area are both soft, and warm, which is why the temperature range for Rams is often so high (and should be). Simply put, the biggest key to success is a combination of clean and _warm_ water. I'm talking mid-80's. I don't keep them in tanks less than 82°F, and my 29G remains between 82°F and 84°F specifically for Rams. Adding peat to your filtration, as well as having drift wood will also help to soften the water to a range they exist in in nature.

What makes them difficult to keep is the amount of inbreeding that's made them so readily available. It makes them susceptible to disease more easily than other non-inbred fish, and they often die without warning if you aren't getting properly bred fish through reputable breeders.


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## StrangeDejavu (Jun 23, 2014)

A good, high quality Ram that hasn't been exposed to poor genes and hormone injections is actually pretty hardy. Unfortunately, a lot of the Rams that are on the market are exposed to hormones to force their colors out, even during times of stress. What this does is weakens the fish and make it more aggressive when Rams in general are peaceful by cichlid standards. At a shop once, I saw a Ram that had HITH and parasites hanging from its anal vent, yet its coloration was so intense you'd think he was guarding fry. This is an example of a hormone injected Ram.

I bought mine from a quality breeder and couldn't be any happier. They're the only fish i've ever owned that didn't arrive with health issues and did just fine in my newly cycled (at the time) 55 gallon. There was even a point in time where I was off my feet due to surgery and I had to neglect my tanks for 3+ weeks. When I was finally able to do a water change, I was about to start gravel vaccing when the female started attacking the tip. I immediately knew what that meant, there were eggs or fry somewhere. Sure enough, even after nearly a month they were still doing well enough to spawn and attempt to rear fry. That doesn't mean you can neglect the tank, but it does show the benefits of buying quality fish that aren't being injected at a fish farm. Give them clean water, feed them quality food, keep a constant temperature and you'll be fine.


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## FewestKitten896 (Dec 13, 2013)

IDR said:


> This all depends on what care level you put into housing them. They like pristine and warm water. This is something people seem not to understand from the perspective that _all_ fish like pristine water. There are no fish that like dirty water. Some are simply better equipped to handle less-than-pristine conditions, should you be a lazy aquarist regarding water changes, filtration, etc.
> 
> German Blue Rams come from the warmer waters of the Río Orinoco in Venezuela and Columbia, which are mostly flooded plains and forests. The waters in this area are both soft, and warm, which is why the temperature range for Rams is often so high (and should be). Simply put, the biggest key to success is a combination of clean and _warm_ water. I'm talking mid-80's. I don't keep them in tanks less than 82°F, and my 29G remains between 82°F and 84°F specifically for Rams. Adding peat to your filtration, as well as having drift wood will also help to soften the water to a range they exist in in nature.
> 
> What makes them difficult to keep is the amount of inbreeding that's made them so readily available. It makes them susceptible to disease more easily than other non-inbred fish, and they often die without warning if you aren't getting properly bred fish through reputable breeders.


So I have read on multiple forums that unless you purchase wild caught blue rams, that water parameters don't exactly have to match what they are in the wild. I am curious because I do have hard water, my water is not acidic and I don't want to keep my water in the 85°F region. I am just curious if you agree or disagree with this. I am not trying to say you are wrong as you have had success with them. Thanks.



StrangeDejavu said:


> A good, high quality Ram that hasn't been exposed to poor genes and hormone injections is actually pretty hardy. Unfortunately, a lot of the Rams that are on the market are exposed to hormones to force their colors out, even during times of stress. What this does is weakens the fish and make it more aggressive when Rams in general are peaceful by cichlid standards. At a shop once, I saw a Ram that had HITH and parasites hanging from its anal vent, yet its coloration was so intense you'd think he was guarding fry. This is an example of a hormone injected Ram.
> 
> I bought mine from a quality breeder and couldn't be any happier. They're the only fish i've ever owned that didn't arrive with health issues and did just fine in my newly cycled (at the time) 55 gallon. There was even a point in time where I was off my feet due to surgery and I had to neglect my tanks for 3+ weeks. When I was finally able to do a water change, I was about to start gravel vaccing when the female started attacking the tip. I immediately knew what that meant, there were eggs or fry somewhere. Sure enough, even after nearly a month they were still doing well enough to spawn and attempt to rear fry. That doesn't mean you can neglect the tank, but it does show the benefits of buying quality fish that aren't being injected at a fish farm. Give them clean water, feed them quality food, keep a constant temperature and you'll be fine.


Do you see an issue with keeping the temperature at 78-80°F? The stock at the LFS looks really nice. All his tanks are planted and kept up so all the colors of the fish are nice and vibrant. I asked what he keeps them at and he said in the upper 70s°F.


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## StrangeDejavu (Jun 23, 2014)

FewestKitten896 said:


> Do you see an issue with keeping the temperature at 78-80°F? The stock at the LFS looks really nice. All his tanks are planted and kept up so all the colors of the fish are nice and vibrant. I asked what he keeps them at and he said in the upper 70s°F.


You'll get various answers to this question, especially from those who keep Rams in colder water. In my opinion, Rams shouldn't be kept in water colder than 82, it can be a compromise to their health. Here's the breeders stance on temperature:



> The water is warm in German Blue Ram’s natural habitat Venezuela and Colombia, so it is important to keep the temperature in the tank constant through the year with 82°F-84°F being ideal for them. It is also important to keep the water temperature about the same while performing water change as well as when transporting them from tank to tank.


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## IDR (Apr 12, 2014)

FewestKitten896 said:


> So I have read on multiple forums that unless you purchase wild caught blue rams, that water parameters don't exactly have to match what they are in the wild. I am curious because I do have hard water, my water is not acidic and I don't want to keep my water in the 85°F region. I am just curious if you agree or disagree with this. I am not trying to say you are wrong as you have had success with them. Thanks.


No, they don't have to _exactly_ match what they are in the wild, but they should be close to it as possible if you don't want to risk reducing their immune systems. Colder waters won't kill them, but they will reduce their ability to fight off infections/diseases.

Drift wood and peat, or even Indian Almond leaves would all help in lowering pH and softening the water to a range closer to what they swim in in the wild.


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## StrangeDejavu (Jun 23, 2014)

IDR said:


> No, they don't have to _exactly_ match what they are in the wild, but they should be close to it as possible if you don't want to risk reducing their immune systems. Colder waters won't kill them, but they will reduce their ability to fight off infections/diseases.
> 
> Drift wood and peat, or even Indian Almond leaves would all help in lowering pH and softening the water to a range closer to what they swim in in the wild.


+1. Or if you're like me and don't have RO to mimic the waters of a wild caught fish, the breeder I mentioned has been breeding his Rams in hard city water for 10 years. Normal Rams from the wild can't breed in hard water as the males sperm is unable to penetrate the egg shell. However, when they're bred and adapted to hard water then they thrive rather than wither away. Mine spawn every 2-3 weeks and produce fry, which the parents always eat. >_> For reference: 7.6 pH, 12 KH, 12 GH.


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## FewestKitten896 (Dec 13, 2013)

Yeah I don't have RO. Well thanks for all your help. I think I will go ahead and try a couple and see how it goes. I will post a picture when I get them.


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## FewestKitten896 (Dec 13, 2013)

Male?









Female...both pictures are the same?


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## devilduck (May 9, 2012)

I had no issues with my PetSmart sale Rams kept at 76-78F. I do notice that the females are a bit more fragile (at least I think they are female, PetSmart sells of alot of hormone fed juveniles).


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## Beakman (Aug 7, 2012)

devilduck said:


> I had no issues with my PetSmart sale Rams kept at 76-78F. I do notice that the females are a bit more fragile (at least I think they are female, PetSmart sells of alot of hormone fed juveniles).



How do you know they sell hormone fed rams?


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## FewestKitten896 (Dec 13, 2013)

devilduck said:


> I had no issues with my PetSmart sale Rams kept at 76-78F. I do notice that the females are a bit more fragile (at least I think they are female, PetSmart sells of alot of hormone fed juveniles).


Yeah I saw a couple at the PetSmart down the road from me and they were in pretty rough condition, all had ich and one had some fin rot going. There were also dead fish in the tank they were with. Definitely a hit or miss on this store by me.


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## Clear Water (Sep 20, 2014)

How about cockatoo instead of rams? They are so much more active always up at the top wanting feed. My rams just hide all the time and I have had them for 6 months. Also the cockatoo can take a lower temp.


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## FewestKitten896 (Dec 13, 2013)

FewestKitten896 said:


> Male?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I went and picked up a couple of rams yesterday evening.


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## StrangeDejavu (Jun 23, 2014)

Clear Water said:


> How about cockatoo instead of rams? They are so much more active always up at the top wanting feed. My rams just hide all the time and I have had them for 6 months. Also the cockatoo can take a lower temp.


Do you have dither fish? My Rams are the most active fish in the tank, constantly exploring and swimming around. Whenever I approach the tank, they both go crazy and glass surf in a zig-zag pattern all the way to the surface where they'll pause and wait for food.

Older video, before my tank was planted, but it gives you an idea of how Rams should act when they're comfortable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zndTjRjx9lY

FewestKitten896: Looks like a male and a female to me, both pretty young. Hope they work out for you, they're awesome fish.


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## IDR (Apr 12, 2014)

I feel like we've had this conversation repeatedly for weeks, but to me, Rams are so easy to care for if you just try to mimic their actual wild environment.

1. Add some peat to your filtration. It's like $8 for a huge bag on Amazon. Throw it in a bag, toss it into your filter and you are done. This will help to soften your water, naturally lower your pH, and release tannins.

2. Throw in drift wood. Like peat, it will release tannins to stain your water, soften it, and naturally lower the pH. Rams live in the Rìo Orinoco bay where plenty of this stuff sinks into the shallower waters.

3. Keep your tank above 80°F. The closer to 86°F you can get, the better of you are. If you have other species in the tank you are worried about, consider 82°F or 84°F as a medium solution.

4. Add some dither fish that they swim with in the Wild — Red Phantom Tetra, Cardinal Tetra, Pencilfish sp., etc.

--

That's it. I mean, that's really all it takes. Anything else (aside from standard tank maintenance, like water changes) is a bonus, not a requirement.

Provided you aren't over-crowding them, they should take just fine to that set of conditions.


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## FewestKitten896 (Dec 13, 2013)

IDR said:


> I feel like we've had this conversation repeatedly for weeks, but to me, Rams are so easy to care for if you just try to mimic their actual wild environment.
> 
> 1. Add some peat to your filtration. It's like $8 for a huge bag on Amazon. Throw it in a bag, toss it into your filter and you are done. This will help to soften your water, naturally lower your pH, and release tannins.
> 
> ...


Well I appreciate your help. I will see what I can do about these guidelines to follow.


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## IDR (Apr 12, 2014)

You're quite welcome. From the look of the photos you sent, it looks like you have a sand substate, or sand-capped substrate (another bonus, as Rams love to sift through it looking for food), at least one piece of what looks like Malaysian drift wood and some live plants.

Not really knowing anything else about your tank, like stock, what your natural tap pH, gH and kH are, etc. you are probably on the right track. The biggest kickers will be tank temp, tank mates and how well you keep up with maintenance to provide them clean water.


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## FewestKitten896 (Dec 13, 2013)

IDR said:


> You're quite welcome. From the look of the photos you sent, it looks like you have a sand substate, or sand-capped substrate (another bonus, as Rams love to sift through it looking for food), at least one piece of what looks like Malaysian drift wood and some live plants.
> 
> Not really knowing anything else about your tank, like stock, what your natural tap pH, gH and kH are, etc. you are probably on the right track. The biggest kickers will be tank temp, tank mates and how well you keep up with maintenance to provide them clean water.


I have been doing a lot of research around the region they are found in. High temperatures and lows in the wet and dry seasons, etc. From what I found it looks like the average temperature throughout the year is around 80°F. I do have some pygmy cories in the tank that I am the most worried about. I also have a 10 gallon that I have some shrimp in that I may end up moving them into. They won't tolerate the warm temperatures for very long. The other tank mates include rummynose tetras and a peacock gudgeon and a few neon tetras. The peacock gudgeon originates close to the equator so I imagine they can tolerate warmer water.

My water is pretty hard. It has a high ph around 8 and i don't have tests for water hardness but know for a fact that coming from a limestone region, we naturally have hard water here. I do have some malaysian drift wood in there and also just a sand substrate. Plant wise I have quite a few, which help to control some water parameters.


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## IDR (Apr 12, 2014)

FewestKitten896 said:


> I have been doing a lot of research around the region they are found in. High temperatures and lows in the wet and dry seasons, etc. From what I found it looks like the average temperature throughout the year is around 80°F. I do have some pygmy cories in the tank that I am the most worried about. I also have a 10 gallon that I have some shrimp in that I may end up moving them into. They won't tolerate the warm temperatures for very long. The other tank mates include rummynose tetras and a peacock gudgeon and a few neon tetras. The peacock gudgeon originates close to the equator so I imagine they can tolerate warmer water.
> 
> My water is pretty hard. It has a high ph around 8 and i don't have tests for water hardness but know for a fact that coming from a limestone region, we naturally have hard water here. I do have some malaysian drift wood in there and also just a sand substrate. Plant wise I have quite a few, which help to control some water parameters.


I tend to run high simply because of the depth of the tank. The lower temps in the Rìo Orinoco tend to come during the rainy season when the bays are flooded. It goes up and down, obviously, but when you are talking about when these fish are in shallower waters, the temperature of it is usually in the mid to high 80's. Additionally, I do so to combat potential disease, illness and stress. In warmer waters, most illnesses can't take as strong a hold (and potentially wipe out an entire tank), and the immune system of the Rams, who are almost always the most sensitive residents in the tank, is healthier when the water is warmer, versus colder. It's why I was saying before, I think in a different Ram-related thread, that it's not that Rams can't survive in colder waters. Clearly they can. But they _thrive_ in warmer waters.

Regarding your hardness and pH, adding peat to your filtration should help to naturally lower your pH to a more acceptable level. You're never going to drop it to the 6-range, which is best for them, but that's not to say they won't still thrive in your tank despite that fact. If you can get it down to a mid 7-range, you should be OK, provided you maintain it. No wild swings in either direction (so stay away from any chemical treatments to lower pH).

As to your mix, the Rummynose are perfect tank mates. The Neons less so. Cardinal Tetras, which look like Neons, and are often confused for them, are a better bet based on water temperature requirements. Your Neons may act normally in warmer waters, but they're actually cold water fish (68-74°F).


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## FewestKitten896 (Dec 13, 2013)

IDR said:


> I tend to run high simply because of the depth of the tank. The lower temps in the Rìo Orinoco tend to come during the rainy season when the bays are flooded. It goes up and down, obviously, but when you are talking about when these fish are in shallower waters, the temperature of it is usually in the mid to high 80's.
> 
> Additionally, I do so to combat potential disease, illness and stress. In warmer waters, most illnesses can't take as strong a hold (and potentially wipe out an entire tank), and the immune system of the Rams, who are almost always the most sensitive residents in the tank, is healthier when the water is warmer, versus colder. It's why I was saying before, I think in a different Ram-related thread, that it's not that Rams can't survive in colder waters. Clearly they can. But they _thrive_ in warmer waters.
> 
> As to your mix, the Rummynose are perfect tank mates. The Neons less so. Cardinal Tetras, which look like Neons, and are often confused for them, are a better bet based on water temperature requirements. Your Neons may act normally in warmer waters, but they're actually cold water fish (68-74°F).


Ok. I will probably move the cory's and leave the neons and rummynose. I was just needing some cheap fish to feed the beneficial bacteria which is where the neons came from while I was waiting for the rummynose.


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## StrangeDejavu (Jun 23, 2014)

I can tell you from experience the corys will do okay at first but will die off one by one from the heat and compromised immune systems. I kept six with my Rams at first but after a month or two I started getting mysterious deaths at about 1 per week. They'd dart around, beam off objects, then just spiral down and die. I felt terrible but went with what the guy at the LFS said. I rehomed the remainders and they instantly looked better once in colder water.

If you want corys with your Rams, just about the only option is Sterbais Corys.


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## FewestKitten896 (Dec 13, 2013)

StrangeDejavu said:


> I can tell you from experience the corys will do okay at first but will die off one by one from the heat and compromised immune systems. I kept six with my Rams at first but after a month or two I started getting mysterious deaths at about 1 per week. They'd dart around, beam off objects, then just spiral down and die. I felt terrible but went with what the guy at the LFS said. I rehomed the remainders and they instantly looked better once in colder water.
> 
> If you want corys with your Rams, just about the only option is Sterbais Corys.


Well after 2 hours I finally fished out my 10 pygmy corys. Those little bastards were a pain in my *** and being so small in a decently planted tank they found every little nook and cranny they could squeeze in to hide. I stuck them in my cherry shrimp 10 gallon tank and with the cooler water they seem to be more active and don't have to worry about larger fish.

I am slowly getting the temperature cranked up in my 40 gallon. Currently I got it to 80 and tonight I will turn it up to 82.


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## IDR (Apr 12, 2014)

FewestKitten896 said:


> Well after 2 hours I finally fished out my 10 pygmy corys. Those little bastards were a pain in my *** and being so small in a decently planted tank they found every little nook and cranny they could squeeze in to hide. I stuck them in my cherry shrimp 10 gallon tank and with the cooler water they seem to be more active and don't have to worry about larger fish.
> 
> I am slowly getting the temperature cranked up in my 40 gallon. Currently I got it to 80 and tonight I will turn it up to 82.


Good stuff. You should be solid at 82°F.

Only fish left in your tank I'd still have concern over, which I realized I didn't respond to earlier, is the Peacock Gudgeon, which is also a colder water fish. 72-77°F. I've never kept them, so I have no idea how they might fare in a tank five degrees warmer than the suggested upper range.

What I do know is your Rummy-nose are going to do A-OK with the Rams.


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## FewestKitten896 (Dec 13, 2013)

IDR said:


> Good stuff. You should be solid at 82°F.
> 
> Only fish left in your tank I'd still have concern over, which I realized I didn't respond to earlier, is the Peacock Gudgeon, which is also a colder water fish. 72-77°F. I've never kept them, so I have no idea how they might fare in a tank five degrees warmer than the suggested upper range.
> 
> What I do know is your Rummy-nose are going to do A-OK with the Rams.


Yeah at first I thought she would be OK but I think I will end up moving her over to the 10 gallon with cherry shrimp and cories. Thanks for all your help and thank god she is mellow and one of the easier ones to move over. It is a pain chasing around a single small fish in a largish tank.


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## IDR (Apr 12, 2014)

The only issue I'd see with the Peacock Gudgeon in that tank is that it may eat the Cherry eggs.

But it's probably a much better home for her than the Ram tank, which will run a lot warmer.


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## FewestKitten896 (Dec 13, 2013)

IDR said:


> The only issue I'd see with the Peacock Gudgeon in that tank is that it may eat the Cherry eggs.
> 
> But it's probably a much better home for her than the Ram tank, which will run a lot warmer.


I plan on adding some more plants and moss that will at least give the shrimp a chance to survive. If they die they die. Atleast cherry shrimp are common enough to where they are not an arm and a leg price wise (I don't really care about grade, just add a little color).


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## FewestKitten896 (Dec 13, 2013)

Well looks like I got a pair. She is digging holes like crazy and he helps a bit. Unfortunately it is in a bunch of my crypts that I will have to replant later but kind of fun to watch her shake her way into the sand. Her little egg laying tube (not sure what it is called) is sticking out and looks like he has a protrusion also. I think they are waiting for the lights to go out before they do the dirty. Haha.


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## StrangeDejavu (Jun 23, 2014)

Hehe, enjoy! GBRs are a blast to watch, I lose track of time if I sit down in front of my tank.


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## IDR (Apr 12, 2014)

FewestKitten896 said:


> Well looks like I got a pair. She is digging holes like crazy and he helps a bit. Unfortunately it is in a bunch of my crypts that I will have to replant later but kind of fun to watch her shake her way into the sand. Her little egg laying tube (not sure what it is called) is sticking out and looks like he has a protrusion also. I think they are waiting for the lights to go out before they do the dirty. Haha.


You have any slate laying around? Throw a piece in there in place of the hole. They should spawn on it instead of digging (though some dig anyway).

Also, the "protrusion" is called a ventricle. They're definitely going to spawn for you from the sound of it.


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## FewestKitten896 (Dec 13, 2013)

IDR said:


> You have any slate laying around? Throw a piece in there in place of the hole. They should spawn on it instead of digging (though some dig anyway).
> 
> Also, the "protrusion" is called a ventricle. They're definitely going to spawn for you from the sound of it.


Well I didn't have any slate but I did lay a couple stones around the tank that have some flat sides facing up. Just wasn't quick enough. I took a peak this morning and from what I could tell, the male was in the hole but I didn't want to spook him so I didn't get a good look.


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## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

Hoping your pair of GBR are still well.
I think the first pic is male and second female.
I have been very lucky to successfully breed these fish.Kind of obsessed?
Warmer water(over 80) and soft/ro if possible.
I would like for my rams to have fertilized eggs in tap water but that isn't going to happen for me I don't think?
If not kept in a species only or fairly accurate biotope I do think these are very difficult fish to keep.
Lets all remember the average life of Mikrogeophagus Ramirezi is 2 years!
Mine start laying eggs and breeding @ 4-6 months and if any you see are 1+ inches odds are they are already 6+ months old.


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## brian3676 (Dec 21, 2014)

How many do you guys keep in a tank? I have 2 right now in my 36 gallon. No issues, they were also one of the first fish in the new tank.


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## Zoidborg (Jan 29, 2014)

I had 2 GBR's in my 20 long for 1 year. They both ended up being females =[ but they rarely saw each other because my tank was heavily planted, when they did see each other the larger one chased the smaller one into her half of the tank.

Recently my biggest GBR passed and now the small one has the whole 20g to herself (well with tetras and guppies too) Shes about 1 1/2 years old no and still going strong.


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## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

brian3676 said:


> How many do you guys keep in a tank? I have 2 right now in my 36 gallon. No issues, they were also one of the first fish in the new tank.


 With many ,my juvi growouts are packed!
I have aprox 80-90 ranging from 1/2 - 1" in a 55g.
I am actually trying to work out how many "older" fish I could keep in my 75.
I would like to keep some from each group to grow larger($$).
They are really tough on each other though.
I have 5(2 pair and extra male) in a 40B and they try to stay away from each other ,but they have conflicts still.These are large ones around 2-2 1/2 inches(still only maybe 1 year old!)


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## Oceangirl (Feb 5, 2013)

I am aiming to get ALL FEMALES only, that way no breeding, bullying or non-sense. I just got 4 at petsmart. They were 4 bucks each. I plan to maybe get 1 gold Ram. I am pretty sure I got all females. All had pink bellies, except for 1. It was very pale. So If its a male, I plan to trade it out. All 4 are hanging out in my 5 gallon with sponge filter. I have to change their water tomorrow.  

They are going in a 55G with some Angels and cories.


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## MrFish (Dec 29, 2014)

Never had a any luck with blues, my pair died after 8days. Strangely enough the golden pair that I replaced them with went great and lasted a few months, until I went on holidays and had a neighbour feed them......

I found once I put some more driftwood in as another member mentioned, they seemed a lot happier. Temps I had at 79f for the sake of the other Inhabitants.

They are easy to sex (look for purple splotching on the belly indicating females).

Anyway after I lost the 2 golden rams I gave up on them. Currently have 2 Bolivians. Much more personality imo (perhaps I just got happier fish?) and with lower temps corys seem happier.


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## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

I have no problem raising them so over all I wonder where do I go wrong?
As a fishkeeper first(plants are second{sorry}),I would have to guess that they probably would benefit hugely with species only tanks.
It is not uncommon for some fish to do better this way(much) ,whether for themselves or other fish(tigerbarbs,discus).
My plan is to keep as many as I can in a 75 with sponge filters.They will all be sold in time,so the question is to create territories or stay pretty empty.My 40B with aprox.15 @ 6 month olds with pots,wood and slate has way more issues then my 55 with 80+ @ 3-4 months old with only plants.
My 40B with [email protected] just under 1 year heavily planted, with pots and wood is on fire!
If they don't have territories will they be better off?
And sorry to say back on thread this may be one of those fish for a species only tank.
Best of luck to everyone who has them in community tanks as they are only second to discus(the king of aquariums) to me!
My discus didn't like community living either.I have 2 out 8 from 2-3 years ago.


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