# Eheim classic 250 or 350 for a 20 gallon high?



## terror lover 11 (Dec 11, 2015)

The general rule is the bigger the tank, the better!


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## jcmv4792 (Jul 15, 2015)

terror lover 11 said:


> The general rule is the bigger the tank, the better!


haha I know. However, one wouldn't put two ac110's on a 10 gallon tank, so there is such a thing as too much flow. Just wondering how that applies to the case in question.


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## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

The stronger the better IMO. I have a 2215 on my 17 gal 60p and the flow is fine.

You can adjust the flow using the double taps.


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## Timmy!! (Jun 26, 2014)

From my experience the more flow the better, I get it to the point the substrate starts moving. The fish love it and the tank always looks clean

Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk


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## jcmv4792 (Jul 15, 2015)

Timmy!! said:


> From my experience the more flow the better, I get it to the point the substrate starts moving. The fish love it and the tank always looks clean
> 
> Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk


Wouldn't moving the substrate around mess with the scape?

Bump:


TLE041 said:


> The stronger the better IMO. I have a 2215 on my 17 gal 60p and the flow is fine.
> 
> You can adjust the flow using the double taps.


Thanks. Would you say even a 2217 would be fine for a 60p?


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## sohankpatel (Jul 10, 2015)

jcmv4792 said:


> Well, 21.5 gallons to be exact(ADA 60 - 2ft x 12ft x 18")


12 ft long is a large tank... :smile2:


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## Timmy!! (Jun 26, 2014)

jcmv4792 said:


> Wouldn't moving the substrate around mess with the scape?
> 
> 
> No not really, all my flow is pointed toward the front so only the substrate that is in the front moves around. As soon as the carpet fills in a bit the substrate stays where it is. Doesn't mess with the plants at all. I think I'm at about 1000 gph on the 40b and a bit over 300 on the 10..
> ...


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## jcmv4792 (Jul 15, 2015)

sohankpatel said:


> 12 ft long is a large tank... :smile2:


haha thanks! Yeah that'd be a strange size for a 21.5 gallon tank

Bump:


Timmy!! said:


> jcmv4792 said:
> 
> 
> > Wouldn't moving the substrate around mess with the scape?
> ...


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## jcmv4792 (Jul 15, 2015)

TLE041 said:


> The stronger the better IMO. I have a 2215 on my 17 gal 60p and the flow is fine.
> 
> You can adjust the flow using the double taps.


What is the flow like on that size?(Would the flow on that tank be fine if it were lower or higher?) Because if it's just enough on a 17 gallon, I'm thinking a 2217 would be better for the 21.5 gallon.


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## Straight shooter (Nov 26, 2015)

Eheim are now made in China, not Germany. China can produce good stuff (ADA, Apple etc) but the jury is still out on whether Eheim have been majorly affected by the move. 

In any case, I've owned several Classic's over time and I can only say DON'T DO IT! Classics may run for years but they are very prone to becoming noisy and inefficient.

These days there are plenty of other brands that have surpassed Eheim in my opinion. Fluval and Sicce come to mind straight away.

Eheim filters are as useless as mudguards on a tortoise.


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## jcmv4792 (Jul 15, 2015)

Straight shooter said:


> Eheim are now made in China, not Germany. China can produce good stuff (ADA, Apple etc) but the jury is still out on whether Eheim have been majorly affected by the move.
> 
> In any case, I've owned several Classic's over time and I can only say DON'T DO IT! Classics may run for years but they are very prone to becoming noisy and inefficient.
> 
> ...


I have heard leaking issues are common with fluval.

Do you know when Eheim made the move to China? There was a dicussion on fb and lots of people seem to be happy with their new Eheims.


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## Straight shooter (Nov 26, 2015)

The move happened several years ago now, I can't give specifics I'm afraid. Some components are still constructed in Germany (double taps etc) but everything else moved to China. 

To explain further, I've visited a number of LFS and found out that they are getting rid of their entire Eheim lineup because of constant returns and lack of sales, allegedly brought about by the move to China. They are saying bye bye to Eheim in favor of Fluval and Rena. 

One of the other reasons Eheim moved production is because China had already copied the Eheim Classic and were selling them off for a cheaper price. 

Everything comes from China. Except babies. They come from vachina.


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## dukydaf (Dec 27, 2004)

jcmv4792 said:


> lots of people seem to be happy with their new Eheims.


Yeah, the majority of Eheim owners are pleased with them. You can add me to that number. I had a new one running pretty much nonstop since early 2000's. Purchased a used one that has 'Made in W-, Germany' stamped in plastic (guess pre '89) Was a little noisy, changed the ceramic axis and now runs as smooth as cyanide. If your eheim was nosy your maintenance was probably wrong (even a BMW needs an oil change) .

Now regarding flow i'm also interested in a good fit for a heavy planted 33G, so following your topic. I now have a 2213 on my high tech, heavy planted 7.5g. A 2215 combined with a JBL on a low tech 62G. (Btw, the JBL has good flow for 2 weeks, after that it noticeably decreases. The Eheim, goes for as long as 2 months.)

In the past I had a 2215 on a 25G and I remember good flow, but it was not a high tech aquarium where CO2 dispersion is crucial.

When choosing a filter, keep in mind that anything on the outflow (heater, reactor) will lower the actual flow. How big the difference from the watersurface to the top of the glass(highest point in the tubing) will have an effect. The outflow shape will lower or enhance the flow... jet , lily, spraybar. 

Also any plants and landscape need to be taken into account. A tank with a HC carpet does not need as much flow as a heavy dutchish aquascape

Hope you find some worthy information here @jcmv4792


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## jcmv4792 (Jul 15, 2015)

dukydaf said:


> Yeah, the majority of Eheim owners are pleased with them. You can add me to that number. I had a new one running pretty much nonstop since early 2000's. Purchased a used one that has 'Made in W-, Germany' stamped in plastic (guess pre '89) Was a little noisy, changed the ceramic axis and now runs as smooth as cyanide. If your eheim was nosy your maintenance was probably wrong (even a BMW needs an oil change) .
> 
> Now regarding flow i'm also interested in a good fit for a heavy planted 33G, so following your topic. I now have a 2213 on my high tech, heavy planted 7.5g. A 2215 combined with a JBL on a low tech 62G. (Btw, the JBL has good flow for 2 weeks, after that it noticeably decreases. The Eheim, goes for as long as 2 months.)
> 
> ...


Thanks dukydaf. It's only been a few days of running a 2217 on my 55 gallon so I was getting discouraged from the possible quality issues of the Chinese made Eheim.

What did you mean by wrong maintenance? Is there any one particular thing that would cause the Eheim to become noisy?

Any tank I have will be low-tech, so I guess that's good. For this 20 gallon I will be using mostly java ferns, anubias, and mosses. Though I'm worried having too much flow would make the sand around the plant island fly around everywhere. In this case would you say a lily pipe is best for the output?


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## dukydaf (Dec 27, 2004)

Hmm, is there a writing on the outerbox saying it was done in china ?
Even if it was constructed there, it would be similar to worrying about an apple device or a non-branded phone. Maybe both were constructed there but the Project, the Quality assurance and standards are different between the two of them. 

Sure it can become noisy if water is not well filtered, eg sand reached the impeler shaft ( maybe no floss or fine filter was put in the filter)
The filter is not primed correctly or air frequently enters the chamber leading to dry run.
The inflow ( to the filter) gets obstructed by not cleaning the intake or the tubbing. 
The filter is put too low from the water surface. 
The distance from the water surface to the highest point on the tubbing is too high.
The filter is not cleaned for months
The impeller chamber/shaft is not cleaned ( not every week but maybe once every month, 2 months). 
Often the ceramic axis gets worn unevenly... this is just a part that needs to be changed, just like tires on the car, lightbulbs etc. At least here, one can easily find a replacement.



Keep in mind that for a few days the filters run very fast, new filter media, new tubing... once the filter media gets colonized the flow will be reduced. For a low tech 20 gallon , you could go with a 250 with a jet outflow, but the moss might need a good cleaning once in a while. Maybe a 350 with a spin lily pipe or a spray bar would bring the flow down to where you wanted. I also had sand in the 25g aquarium with the 2215 and it was not flowing around the aqurium.. The good thing with lots of low is that you can turn it down a little if it is too strong.


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## jcmv4792 (Jul 15, 2015)

dukydaf said:


> Hmm, is there a writing on the outerbox saying it was done in china ?
> Even if it was constructed there, it would be similar to worrying about an apple device or a non-branded phone. Maybe both were constructed there but the Project, the Quality assurance and standards are different between the two of them.
> 
> Sure it can become noisy if water is not well filtered, eg sand reached the impeler shaft ( maybe no floss or fine filter was put in the filter)
> ...



I did notice my eheim is not completely silent, and I think one of the reasons is that there is still air in there from setting it up a few days ago. I will tilt the filter back and forth a couple times a day... but I am wondering if the canister will automatically take all the air out in time. Or do I need to manually take all the air out?


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

Seeing that this thread is open, I was ordering if someone could suggest a pump or pumps, although I'd prefer just one for running cost reasons.

I have a 60 gal tank, just shy of 4'. I would like to do a riverine setup for giant swordtails.
You may have seen the pics with the pumps on the one side of the tank and the intakes on the other, connected through pipes under the gravel.

I am not sure what strength pumps to use. I suppose multiple pumps would create less of a water light sabre effect.


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## Straight shooter (Nov 26, 2015)

> If your eheim was nosy your maintenance was probably wrong (even a BMW needs an oil change) .


Do you think I'm some knuckle dragging neanderthal that considers scheduled maintenance to be shouting loudly at the filter to make it behave? Geez buddy have at least some faith in human kind. 

Yes I maintained them as recommended. All 4 that I owned, 3x German made and 1x Chinese. Longest I had one was 6 years. All ended up noisy after a couple of years. I still have one and I can hear it buzzing from where I'm sitting right now. I just swore at it loudly but that didn't help. Oh wait, that's right, I'm supposed to swear less and maintain more. I'll get the hang of it, I'm sure. Wish me luck.

Metal clips are also easy to break.


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## locus (May 13, 2003)

I have three Eheim Classic 250s. One on an ADA 45P, and the other two on my ADA Mini-Ms. I use Hydor ETH 200 inline heaters which slow the flow down a little. I would go for the 350 in your case, I don't think a 250 would be enough.

As for quality issues, I've not had mine for too long and I have noticed on occasion a bit of noise, usually after a water change (I switch them off while I'm changing water as the tanks are small) or after I have cleaned the filter media and had to re-prime. The culprit seems to be air trapped in/around the impeller. I just give the canister a bit of shake and turn the filter off and on a few times and that usually clears it out and the filters run quietly again.


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## jcmv4792 (Jul 15, 2015)

Nordic said:


> Seeing that this thread is open, I was ordering if someone could suggest a pump or pumps, although I'd prefer just one for running cost reasons.
> 
> I have a 60 gal tank, just shy of 4'. I would like to do a riverine setup for giant swordtails.
> You may have seen the pics with the pumps on the one side of the tank and the intakes on the other, connected through pipes under the gravel.
> ...


Not sure if this is what you are looking for, but I have a hydor koralia nano 240gph coming for my 55 gallon. I have heard these circulation pumps spread the flow gently and evenly, and not very hard in one direction.


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## Straight shooter (Nov 26, 2015)

Note I didn't say that they fail easily or anything, just noisy and inefficient after a while. They should last years but make sure you have them in a thick cabinet to muffle the sound.


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