# High light and ferts in low tech ?



## marks_01 (Jan 4, 2017)

Low CO2 (or carbon) is apparently the main cause of most types of algae. You could dose with Seachem Excel instead of CO2.


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## sohankpatel (Jul 10, 2015)

yusufsarac said:


> What happens if I put high light and dose ferts but no co2 ? I dont have the budget for co2 and time to maintain it so I dont want that. But my tank is looking much better in a more powerful light.
> 
> I dont know if it is high light but I have 23 watt phillips sho white bulb light in a 10 gallon tank. Plants are doing well and growing. But in the last couple of weeks, Anubias are having black beard algae and hair algae.
> 
> So is there a way to have success with: high light, Ferts but no co2 ?


Excel is NOT co2. It can be used by plants as a carbon source, but it isnt as good as real co2. And to answer your question, high light and excel will not end well. Either get a cheap co2 setup, like Aquatek, or do low light.


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## katas (Jan 12, 2015)

sohankpatel said:


> Excel is NOT co2. It can be used by plants as a carbon source, but it isnt as good as real co2. And to answer your question, high light and excel will not end well. Either get a cheap co2 setup, like Aquatek, or do low light.


Strictly curious from a learning standpoint and not debate.. I use highlight and dose excel until I get a co2 setup. What should I be aware of?


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## sohankpatel (Jul 10, 2015)

katas said:


> Strictly curious from a learning standpoint and not debate.. I use highlight and dose excel until I get a co2 setup. What should I be aware of?


I would dim lights or raise them to help prevent algae. The reason being that excel, while still a carbon source, is nowhere near as efficient as CO2. The plants metabolize each differently. If you are running high light, then you will probably have an algae issue until you get a true co2 system. I would dim or raise lights, this will reduce light to medium or even low light, and stop algae from going rampant.


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## katas (Jan 12, 2015)

Understood and would agree. Interesting that I am not experiencing that myself. 22g tank dosing 1 cap of Metrex Metricide Gallon 14 Day with GLA Ferts and Current USA Pro Plus (6am-10pm photo period) and no algae issues at all currently. I will toss it to luck of balance at the moment. However good to know all the same. I also have a ton of MTS/Pond snails, otos, amano, nerites, corys for a cleanup crew. Either way thank you for the heads up.


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## Dman911 (Nov 24, 2016)

katas said:


> Understood and would agree. Interesting that I am not experiencing that myself. 22g tank dosing 1 cap of Metrex Metricide Gallon 14 Day with GLA Ferts and Current USA Pro Plus (6am-10pm photo period) and no algae issues at all currently. I will toss it to luck of balance at the moment. However good to know all the same. I also have a ton of MTS/Pond snails, otos, amano, nerites, corys for a cleanup crew. Either way thank you for the heads up.


I run Med'ish light with 20ish ppm Co2 and do a 12 hr photo period and experience the same. Like you I to have a decent size clean up crew. I upped my lighting from 10-12 hrs a day to try and induce a little more algae for my otto's, nerites and amano shrimp and even then I need to supplement their diet. I would say its not unusual to get away with more if you have a larger clean up crew but without it would definitely be cause for concern and I would more than likely be staring at a tank filled with algae. While I have Co2 and don't advocate relying on algae eaters they definitely play a role in what you can and cannot get away with.

Dan


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## sevendust111 (Jul 15, 2014)

This topic has come up a few times over the years. I don't know why someone would set themselves up for failure. Highlight with a long photoperiod+heavy ferts + no C02='s algae. Period. You might not have algae now but you will. If anything, you should try the opposite. Medium-low light with a 6-8 hour photoperiod, maybe 1/4 to 1/2 EI, and 30ppm C02. Throw in a double dose of Excel everyday to be on the safe side.


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## -Mak- (Jan 30, 2017)

I set up a high light tank (didn't realize at the time) with pretty good ferts, it had a myriad of algae and cyanobacteria issues and still does, even though I have DIY CO2 now. I think I might have to tear it down and redo it, it's really bad.


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## Dman911 (Nov 24, 2016)

sevendust111 said:


> This topic has come up a few times over the years. I don't know why someone would set themselves up for failure. Highlight with a long photoperiod+heavy ferts + no C02='s algae. Period. You might not have algae now but you will. If anything, you should try the opposite. Medium-low light with a 6-8 hour photoperiod, maybe 1/4 to 1/2 EI, and 30ppm C02. Throw in a double dose of Excel everyday to be on the safe side.


I agree with most of this but there are exceptions, not that I would recommend doing this but I think its possible given the right circumstances to accomplish med-high light without Co2. Its definitely not as simple as putting high light and ferts and I question the whole high fert levels to begin with as you only need to reach non limiting levels and anything beyond that is a waste. EI is calculated based on exceeding those levels by arguably a reasonable amount. The same goes for Co2 I would question why 30ppm of Co2 with med-low light? To many things in this hobby have become hardline rules and no longer guidelines as intended. I would say if you have an army of algae eaters its absolutely possible to do a med-high light tank with ferts and carbon dosing and the right plants but would I recommend it, absolutely not. 

Dan


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## IntotheWRX (May 13, 2016)

yusufsarac said:


> What happens if I put high light and dose ferts but no co2 ? I dont have the budget for co2 and time to maintain it so I dont want that. But my tank is looking much better in a more powerful light.
> 
> I dont know if it is high light but I have 23 watt phillips sho white bulb light in a 10 gallon tank. Plants are doing well and growing. But in the last couple of weeks, Anubias are having black beard algae and hair algae.
> 
> So is there a way to have success with: high light, Ferts but no co2 ?


youre going to grow a pond of algae. feeding them with lots of fertz in the water and blasting the light. your plants wont have enough co2 to keep up with the swarm.


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## sevendust111 (Jul 15, 2014)

sevendust111 said:


> This topic has come up a few times over the years. I don't know why someone would set themselves up for failure. Highlight with a long photoperiod+heavy ferts + no C02='s algae. Period. You might not have algae now but you will. If anything, you should try the opposite. Medium-low light with a 6-8 hour photoperiod, maybe 1/4 to 1/2 EI, and 30ppm C02. Throw in a double dose of Excel everyday to be on the safe side.


I understand what you are saying and your are correct. However, considering the op has only a few posts and given his question, I think it is safe to assume that he/she is newer to planted tanks. Striking a balance in a planted tank is difficult and a high light no C02 tank would be only for someone with a lot of experience. Lower light and higher C02 is much more forgiving. 

As a side note, I run 30ppm on my medium-low light tank because my rotala green grows straighter with high C02. Definitely grows different at a lower C02 content as I used to do diy C02 with this tank. Could I use a little less? Probably. Most of the plants in this tank are on the low tech side. But, C02 is cheap so I don't mind. I get 3 months of c02 on this tank on a 24oz paintball tank for 5 bucks (15 gallon tank).


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## Dman911 (Nov 24, 2016)

sevendust111 said:


> I understand what you are saying and your are correct. However, considering the op has only a few posts and given his question, I think it is safe to assume that he/she is newer to planted tanks. Striking a balance in a planted tank is difficult and a high light no C02 tank would be only for someone with a lot of experience. Lower light and higher C02 is much more forgiving.
> 
> As a side note, I run 30ppm on my medium-low light tank because my rotala green grows straighter with high C02. Definitely grows different at a lower C02 content as I used to do diy C02 with this tank. Could I use a little less? Probably. Most of the plants in this tank are on the low tech side. But, C02 is cheap so I don't mind. I get 3 months of c02 on this tank on a 24oz paintball tank for 5 bucks (15 gallon tank).


Couldn't agree more. Which is why I would also recommend against it. Just wanted to answer the OP's question of if there is any way to make it work. 

Dan


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## katas (Jan 12, 2015)

Dman911 said:


> I run Med'ish light with 20ish ppm Co2 and do a 12 hr photo period and experience the same. Like you I to have a decent size clean up crew. I upped my lighting from 10-12 hrs a day to try and induce a little more algae for my otto's, nerites and amano shrimp and even then I need to supplement their diet. I would say its not unusual to get away with more if you have a larger clean up crew but without it would definitely be cause for concern and I would more than likely be staring at a tank filled with algae. While I have Co2 and don't advocate relying on algae eaters they definitely play a role in what you can and cannot get away with.
> 
> Dan


The main point was the grow out algae for the clean up crew. However only temporary until I get the co2 system in mid June. Good to know I have a problem before I have the problem just yet. Thanks for the lesson.


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## Christophe (Oct 23, 2013)

katas said:


> The main point was the grow out algae for the clean up crew. However only temporary until I get the co2 system in mid June. Good to know I have a problem before I have the problem just yet. Thanks for the lesson.


Skip the algae for the cleanup crew. Feed them instead. Boil a slice of zucchini for three minutes, toss it in the tank once a week. That will keep them fed, and you don't need to court disaster.


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## AbbeysDad (Apr 13, 2016)

I dunno, I think with slightly higher light, slightly more ferts, and Excel (or Metricide) you can do "medium tech" without major problems. Excel is not only a carbon source as it decomposes, but is also an effective algaecide (sure beats up on BBA!). So yea, I think you can bump low tech up a notch without CO2.


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## p0tluck (Feb 17, 2017)

Excel is also an algaecide but it won't fix the issue of algae totally and honestly just a bandaid, I dose excel due to it does indeed benefit the plants but I also run low light so my algae is minimal if any, I dose flourish 1x weekly at 5ml, Excel every other day at 2.5 ml

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## katas (Jan 12, 2015)

Christophe said:


> Skip the algae for the cleanup crew. Feed them instead. Boil a slice of zucchini for three minutes, toss it in the tank once a week. That will keep them fed, and you don't need to court disaster.


Living on the edge is the only way to go. Seriously though can't snag that co2 reg any sooner then next month. I already feed them frozen spinach, omega algae wafers, blanch then frozen zuccini, and sea weed. Advice noted though.


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## DennisSingh (Nov 8, 2004)

You do not have high light


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