# Cloudy Water



## mattrmiller (Aug 11, 2003)

On my 29g I have a filstar XP2 canister running. I recently had an unexplained ammonia spike,that has now resulted in a bunch of cloudy water. The water parameters are fine, I just can't beat this cloudy water non-sense. It seems to get better at night hen the lights are all off, but worse during the day. I have heard a black out hurts your plants more then anything, so I do not want to take that route. I have done partial and more then partial water changes. I am getting really frustrated, and ready to drain the whole dam thing. What should I do?


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## Guttboy (Jul 19, 2003)

Matt,

I had a cloudy water issue a while back...it would get worse during the day. Unfortunately I think it is Green water in its early stages. Roger Miller here in Albuquerque suggested using a flocculant to get the fine particles out of suspension in the water and then filtering em out mechanically....here is a link to something on the subject. Personally a 24 or 48 hour blackout in my mind wont harm your plants. Just me though. I have forgotten to turn the lights on over the weekend and the plants were fine.

Mike

http://www.plantedtank.net/forum/vi...ays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=cloudy&start=15

http://www.plantedtank.net/forum/vi...0&postorder=asc&highlight=flocculant&start=15


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## mattrmiller (Aug 11, 2003)

OK, I have a couple questions that are really going to make me look stupid.... but since I really want to solve this it's a small price.


1) What is flocculant.
2) I have heard good things about HOT magnum filters, but they are expensive. I would also be concerned because I like the XP2.. is the magnum something I use only for a small period of time? It just seems like a waste?
3) Also UV sterilizers are expensive, I do not know enough about them to invest the money. 

This is really frustrating, I don't want to spend a ton of money just for this problem.


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## m.lemay (Jul 28, 2002)

You don't have to spend a dime if you're willing to wait it out. But be warned, It could get worse before it gets better.

IMO, you got two choices:
1)Drive yourself nuts and try to control the situation with filters and blackouts and chemicals.
2) Cut down the light cycle to about 10 hrs a day, water change every couple days, and wait for a couple weeks.

Your tank is fairly new and it's trying to find a balance. It'll find one sooner if you just let it.

Marcel


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## mattrmiller (Aug 11, 2003)

That's a good point. I was just concerned that if I did nothing it will only get worse and never get better. If I can borrow a hot magnum filter from my Friend to clean it out and only use it for a week, will it come back after I remove the hot magnum?


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## m.lemay (Jul 28, 2002)

It might come back after you remove the magnum. Green water is usually caused by an excess of nutrients and a lack of bio-bacteria to consume it. The algae steps in as a consumer of the nutrients. If you let the algae consume the nutrients it'll end quicker but might be uglier in the interim.

Marcel


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## mattrmiller (Aug 11, 2003)

So I should wait it out... while lower my photo period? Should I be doing water changes during this... or does this add to the nutrients for the algae to feed on? Maybe try doing nothing?


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## m.lemay (Jul 28, 2002)

I would just do nothing. Your tap water may actually be making the situation worse. Maybe just shorten the photo period. Do you have any idea whats in your local water?

Marcel


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## mattrmiller (Aug 11, 2003)

My tap water is really hard, and has high PH. I have been mixing a little tap water with RO water. I am just concern that any water changes will only be adding nutrients for the algae to feed on.


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## m.lemay (Jul 28, 2002)

Have you tested for nitrates and phosphates in the tap water?


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## mattrmiller (Aug 11, 2003)

Nitrates are fine.
Phosphates are at 0.


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## Guttboy (Jul 19, 2003)

Matt,

Lot of good posts above. I agree on the do nothing part. Your tank will find its balance In my opinion just by waiting and reducing the lighting period. 

I went through the cloudy water phase and did the flocculant (this is a substance that takes fine particles out of suspension by binding them together to make bigger particles...thus making it easier for your mechanical media (floss) to take them out) and DE route. This worked great but the cloudy water kept coming back...less each day but still came back.

I now just let the tank run its course.

Mike


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## mattrmiller (Aug 11, 2003)

I am letting it run it's course. I have been trying flocculate, I just did not know that's what it's called. The product I got does not seem to work that well. Is there one that anyone recommends?


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## mattrmiller (Aug 11, 2003)

Alright well I did a day and a half "1/2 black out".. what does that mean? Well during the day I left some lights on in the room for my plants, but turned off the aquarium light. And now... IT'S CLEAR... and has been for a while... fingers crossed :wink: it will stay that way.

The only down side is my fish are a little confused I think... and my plants are looking a little gloomy.. but they will soon perk back up. I am SO SO SO SO glad I did not have to buy anything for this fix. It does take patience, which I know is really hard... I stuggle myself with it... a lot.

Thank you everyone for your help.


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## barako927 (Oct 20, 2003)

I just setup my 135G tank all it has right now is aqual soil and on top pea gravel. I've put the water in last week and it got a little cloudy for the first 2 days and then it cleared out. Then 2 days later it's cloudy again, is this a common accurance? I was thinking of dumping the water again but would really appreciate any input, there's nothing in the tank except for substrate with eheim 2028 and 2128 filters.. 

thanks


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## Seamaiden (Nov 3, 2003)

What is happening when you experience the milky cloudiness is a bloom of free-floating bacteria (this is known in the trade as "new tank syndrome"). The more you mess with it, the longer it lasts, _especially_ if you're scraping down tank sides and vacuuming gravel. What you _want_ is to let them (the "freefloaters") "do the lemming", starve themselves out, while allowing sufficient time for the benthic nitrifying bacterial cultures to gain a foothold. Once the benthics gain a foothold in good numbers, you will have allowed an equilibrium to be established, the benthic bacteria (and your plants) will be the ones utilizing available nutrients, not the undesirables. We can include green water (free floating algal forms) in this equation. 

Basically, it's all about balance. Since you have nothing else in the tank, it would seem you have much in the way of available nutrients, and these freefloating "critters" are able to establish more quickly than the benthics.


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## firefish44 (Mar 29, 2003)

Just curious how long this green water syndrom can last, if one choses to do nothing and let it run it's course. I have a moderatly planted 55g and have had green water for 6 months now. :?:


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

What did you put in your substrate? Something has to be feeding it. Are you adding anything other than fishfood? WHat kind of plants do you have and what kind of light?


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## slyargent (Sep 8, 2003)

SCMurphy said:


> What did you put in your substrate? Something has to be feeding it. Are you adding anything other than fishfood? WHat kind of plants do you have and what kind of light?


Might I also ask how much food you feed your fish? 

Ive had green water before, I tried water changes and it just got worst. I tried blacking out for 3 days, and its all gone. No feeding whatsover. I think fish can survive without feeding them a maximum of one week for most. Heck, Ive got a 100 gallon, neglected tank with 2 goldfish, some feeder minnows and 2 captured fry(from local slough) and I only do water change once a month, and feed them when I can rmember them, about once a week, and they are doing great, hence, a lil scared when they see me as they arent accustomed to me feeding them. I dont scrape the algae off, i let it filter the tank on its on, and feed the fish, and I think I got a balanced closed system here(the algae provides food, then the fish provides food for the algae, and vice versa No light, no filters, just indirect sunlight(even that it miniscule. 

Ok, ill stop.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

firefish44 said:


> Just curious how long this green water syndrom can last, if one choses to do nothing and let it run it's course. I have a moderatly planted 55g and have had green water for 6 months now. :?:


If it is a new tank syndrome, it should disappear within 6 to 8 days. 6 months is a little long... In addition to whatever has been said before...

1) Get fast growing stem plants, and plant densely
2) Measure NO3 and PO4 and keep it at 5 and 0.5 ppm respectively
3) Add CO2
4) Reduce stocking level

Diatom filtration (with a flocculant) and UV radiation have been suggested to battle green water. But Sean is right, something has to be feeding it, and it is better to battle the source of it if it doesn't disappear on its own.


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## firefish44 (Mar 29, 2003)

Ok, here are the details on the tank....set up last May, 55g with fluorite and playsand combination substrate 2-3" deep. Mixed hardy plants-mod. density, 110wPC 6700k and 40w NO GE aquarium bulb on 2 cycles...down to 10 hrs. a day total. Low fish load, 2 dwarf gourami, dozen small tetras, a few cory cats and ottos. Filstar xp2. pH 6.4 to 7.0, gh 2 to 3, kH 0, nitates, ammonia all 0. 75 deg. F. No direct sun, MINIMAL food, NO additives or fertilizers. Fish are thriving, none lost ever. Plants are maintaianing, very slow growth which is fine with me, thats why I'm staying away from any fertilizers or CO2. Tap water has high phosphate, and soft. Tank was initially filled w RO/DI water (which I have for my reef), but someone on here said that that was so wrong for a planted tank.......using rodi water stripped of minerals and such, ( Good point) so I've gone back to changes with tap.

Here's whats been tried to so far to battle this green (and I mean thick soup) water: (not nesc. in this order)

1. up to 15 days of full back out......it came back
2. frequent 80-90% h2o changes........back
3. Floccuant (sp)? "crystal clear" .....worked for a day
4. reduce light cycles and change combinations ........back
5. upgrade to rena filstar filter from old HOB
6. doing nothing for 2 months...........no change, just a little greener
7. hours of starting into the green depths and cursing . both out loud and silently
..........you get the idea........Yes I know that SOMETHING must be feeding this stuff, but WHAT?????? The playsand?, tapwater phosphate?, 6700k light temp? I'm not about to shell out $100 for a diatom filter unless it is guarenteed to solve the problem. I still believe in low tech systems too....i don't even want to think about a UV filter. 

Ok done venting for now...thanks


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

The phosphate in your tap water is a problem and your water is very soft for keeping plants. I hate to say it but you almost need to go to a midtech system of dosing and CO2 supplimentation to get the plants growing fast enough to take up the phosphate. Any nitrogen that is produced in your tank is immediately taken up by the green water, hence the never ending verdant hue.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

High Phosphates and zero Nitrates are a safe way to neverending algae problems.
Regarding the Diatom filter, it is not guaranteed to solve the problem, but it can clear up the water which might improve your general mood and help plants to start growing and using those Phosphates faster. 
I felt the same way as you did... $100?? But then I got a HOT Magnum for $40 and a 10lb bag of Diatom Earth for $6 and this is a great way to get crystal clear water. Plus now I have a backup emergency filter if the canister blows up one day. On the downside, getting it charged and cleaning it afterwards is a little bit of work, so DE is probably not for everyone.


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## Seamaiden (Nov 3, 2003)

I believe (but am not sure, it's been a few years) that potassium permanganate is a flocculant (causes organics to precipitate out of the water column..?).


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Seamaiden said:


> I believe (but am not sure, it's been a few years) that potassium permanganate is a flocculant (causes organics to precipitate out of the water column..?).


That's new to me :shock: I thought it's a sterilizing agent that kills micro-orgs and in sufficient dosage anything alive, including the fishkeeper (pretty strong poison)... Well, always read the label of anything you dump into the tank :lol:


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## Seamaiden (Nov 3, 2003)

Heh, you know it very well may be. As I said, it's been a while. I recollect it being quite the oxidizer (only used it once or twice when I had koi).. and that it cleared my pond of suspended matter quite neatly.. made the water rather dark, too. :|


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## Seamaiden (Nov 3, 2003)

Forgot to add this...

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/dips_baths.htm


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## digger (Feb 18, 2003)

It is a strong oxydiser, not a focculant.


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## Seamaiden (Nov 3, 2003)

Heh.. was that typo on purpose?


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

You mean... OXYDI*Z*ER? :lol: :lol: :lol:


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