# 135 gallon tank - high light recs?



## willknowitall (Oct 3, 2010)

what are the dimensions of tank


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## laxcoach18 (Nov 11, 2010)

72x18x24


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## brainwavepc.com (Sep 27, 2011)

That is 125 gallon btw. Get t5ho lights on eBay for super cheap, I just got 2x 4 bulb t5ho 36 inches with moon LEDs for 176 shipped. Same setup I have on my other high tech 125 and I can grow anything.


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## willknowitall (Oct 3, 2010)

i use metal halides on all my tanks
for a tank that size i would suggest 2x 150w mh pendents
the ones i use are aqua medic spacelight ex
they are small, sleek and come with hanging kit, as well as very high quality ballasts
if your interested in those, you can call aquamedic usa and get them to exchange the bulbs they come with(10,000k or 20,000k) with ada 8000k bulbs at no charge,at least thats what i did


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## brainwavepc.com (Sep 27, 2011)

willknowitall said:


> i use metal halides on all my tanks
> for a tank that size i would suggest 2x 150w mh pendents
> the ones i use are aqua medic spacelight ex
> they are small, sleek and come with hanging kit, as well as very high quality ballasts
> if your interested in those, you can call aquamedic usa and get them to exchange the bulbs they come with(10,000k or 20,000k) with ada 8000k bulbs at no charge,at least thats what i did


That would be over $600 for lighting.


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## willknowitall (Oct 3, 2010)

brainwavepc.com said:


> That would be over $600 for lighting.


more like $400 to $450 tops i recall


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## samamorgan (Dec 31, 2011)

brainwavepc.com said:


> That is 125 gallon btw. Get t5ho lights on eBay for super cheap, I just got 2x 4 bulb t5ho 36 inches with moon LEDs for 176 shipped. Same setup I have on my other high tech 125 and I can grow anything.


72*18*24 = 31104 cubic inches

1 gallon = 231 cubic inches

31104/231 = 134.65 gallons. Unless the inner dimensions really take off 10 gallons. So you could be correct, i don't know the glass thickness and such.



willknowitall said:


> more like $400 to $450 tops i recall


That's still twice as much as he needs to pay for proper lighting. And metal halides are extremely inefficient to run. I'm willing to bet i could put together a commercial LED solution that would work for that much money. If not, a DIY for a project that size would be easy to put together for $400.


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## laxcoach18 (Nov 11, 2010)

brainwavepc.com said:


> That is 125 gallon btw. Get t5ho lights on eBay for super cheap, I just got 2x 4 bulb t5ho 36 inches with moon LEDs for 176 shipped. Same setup I have on my other high tech 125 and I can grow anything.


It is 135 gallons, as the poster below agreed with. I have purchased those types of lights online and they do not penetrate the bottom. I have no interested in spending my money on those.


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## laxcoach18 (Nov 11, 2010)

willknowitall said:


> more like $400 to $450 tops i recall


Will be something to look into. Are there any online sources for it?


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## laxcoach18 (Nov 11, 2010)

samamorgan said:


> That's still twice as much as he needs to pay for proper lighting. And metal halides are extremely inefficient to run. I'm willing to bet i could put together a commercial LED solution that would work for that much money. If not, a DIY for a project that size would be easy to put together for $400.


Willing to have the husband attempt LED if he thinks he can do it, but I would want him to have solid instructions, not to just "wing it" by looking at a few online build threads. i'm a she, btw. :icon_smil


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## Kathyy (Feb 22, 2010)

Fish Need It MH are $135 with bulbs included and easily light 24" deep. Mine are 36" off the substrate of my 24" deep tank. Two easily lit a 5' tank and were almost okay on the 8' tank. I did notice an annoying shadow in the center of the tank from that dratted support piece.

Maybe better quality reflectors on the T5HO? The cheapo ones aren't good. Tek are terrific reflectors and would work just fine for you and there are many other good units out there.


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## laxcoach18 (Nov 11, 2010)

Kathyy said:


> Fish Need It MH are $135 with bulbs included and easily light 24" deep. Mine are 36" off the substrate of my 24" deep tank. Two easily lit a 5' tank and were almost okay on the 8' tank. I did notice an annoying shadow in the center of the tank from that dratted support piece.
> 
> Maybe better quality reflectors on the T5HO? The cheapo ones aren't good. Tek are terrific reflectors and would work just fine for you and there are many other good units out there.


I'd rather just buy a new set of lights than going in and messing with the reflectors. The lights get fairly hot and I want something that isn't going to add much heat to the tank -- I do live in AZ after all! Do the metal halides add a great deal of heat to the tank? What kind of light are you running at the top of the tank vs. the bottom (high, med, low?)


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## samamorgan (Dec 31, 2011)

laxcoach18 said:


> I'd rather just buy a new set of lights than going in and messing with the reflectors. The lights get fairly hot and I want something that isn't going to add much heat to the tank -- I do live in AZ after all! Do the metal halides add a great deal of heat to the tank? What kind of light are you running at the top of the tank vs. the bottom (high, med, low?)


Metal halides create substantial heat, enough that many people end up having to run chillers.


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## willknowitall (Oct 3, 2010)

samamorgan said:


> Metal halides create substantial heat, enough that many people end up having to run chillers.


heat goes up , most planted tanks have them hung 12 to 16 inches above the tank
reef tanks are an other story because many are mounted lower for more light
i have never had any issues with over heating,ever

also your comment of them being extremely inefficient makes no sense to me 
having 1 x150w mh over a 36x 18x 18 tank at 15 inch above tank
if i was to run t5ho lights at that height i would have to run 4 of them at 39w each
well thats not much lower wattage and i wouldnt get nearly the same quality of light
this whole hobby is not that efficient as far as the pocket book goes anyways
some people buy rena and some eheim , allglass or ada, low iron, rimless
i wouldnt trade my mh for anything at this point
the light they admit is simple beautiful


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## Kathyy (Feb 22, 2010)

Metal halide pendents don't add a lot of heat to a tank as the heat is radiated out as much as down but they are too hot to touch. The ballasts get hot too, I put a small fan on them in the stand in hot weather. I don't live in a hot climate and haven't noticed that the heat from the lights heats up the room excessively. 

Tek manufactures very attractive T5 fixtures with extremely good reflectors. Buy a fixture with 4 bulbs and you would run 2 most of the time. There are plenty of other good quality T5HO fixtures too. Hoppy writes to look at the installed bulbs. If the reflector is good you see multiple bulb reflections so much so that it is hard to count the actual bulbs at least in photos.


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## willknowitall (Oct 3, 2010)

samamorgan said:


> 72*18*24 = 31104 cubic inches
> 
> 1 gallon = 231 cubic inches
> 
> ...


ok you can put a commercial quality led solution togeather that would give high light to a 135 gal tank for $400 to $450
well maybe you should and start selling them, but that doesnt include your time opps
i hope it would be a quality system
for me it would take me more then $400 of my time just learning the basics of how to do that


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## samamorgan (Dec 31, 2011)

willknowitall said:


> ok you can but to a commercial or diy led solution togeather that would give high light to a 135 gal tank for $400 to $450
> well maybe you should
> i hope it would be a quality system
> for me it would take me more then $400 of my time just learning the basics of how to do that


DIY LEDs are really easy to do. Dont let the technical stuff scare you off, its a heat sink, some emmiters, and a driver or two, wire them together.

And not to be a downer, but if you're worried about your time trying to figure out something for your tank, why are you keeping an aquarium? It's a very time consuming hobby, thats part of what makes it fun.

And if i read that correctly, that said something along the lines of "you go do that then". Keep your rude comments to yourself please.


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## willknowitall (Oct 3, 2010)

Kathyy said:


> Metal halide pendents don't add a lot of heat to a tank as the heat is radiated out as much as down but they are too hot to touch. The ballasts get hot too, I put a small fan on them in the stand in hot weather. I don't live in a hot climate and haven't noticed that the heat from the lights heats up the room excessively.
> 
> Tek manufactures very attractive T5 fixtures with extremely good reflectors. Buy a fixture with 4 bulbs and you would run 2 most of the time. There are plenty of other good quality T5HO fixtures too. Hoppy writes to look at the installed bulbs. If the reflector is good you see multiple bulb reflections so much so that it is hard to count the actual bulbs at least in photos.


my mh are not too hot to touch , there hot but not that hot
the ballasts run very cool because the have and built in fan and aluminum casing


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## willknowitall (Oct 3, 2010)

samamorgan said:


> DIY LEDs are really easy to do. Dont let the technical stuff scare you off, its a heat sink, some emmiters, and a driver or two, wire them together.
> 
> And not to be a downer, but if you're worried about your time trying to figure out something for your tank, why are you keeping an aquarium? It's a very time consuming hobby, thats part of what makes it fun.
> 
> And if i read that correctly, that said something along the lines of "you go do that then". Keep your rude comments to yourself please.


sorry if that seemed rude, to be honest i just didnt believe you
and or simple that $400 is just for parts and diy(and how aesthetic looking is that)
on a lighter note i am also hinting that you could( just go do it) and sell them
in terms of time ive got, my hands full as is. that includes the endless hours i give to my wife , kids, job, music ,recreation, house cleaning, wood working and tanks, lighting excluded
the time it would take me to figure it out i could make $400 and buy more halides(joking)
part of the point i was trying to make is for many people sometimes its more efficient to just go and buy what they need or want
some day i would like to learn more about diy leds because i saw a cool looking auto dimmer unit for small tanks and moon lighting(sunrise sunset) one of the sponsors are selling them
but where to learn the how to, just seems overwhelming at this point
i would prefer paying someone to put it together for me


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## samamorgan (Dec 31, 2011)

What i meant by "putting together a commercial unit" is getting a couple of led fixtures and hanging them. Simple as that. And i'm willing to bet that if i did DIY, an inch thick heatsink with some emmiters attached looks much better than a massive metal halide unit with reflector and the works.

On top of all that, the LEDs use 80% less energy than the halides. Hundreds of dollars a year to run halides, less than a hundred a year to run LEDs.

I say all of this because i've been planning on having a 72"x12"x14" custom rimless tank built, and have been trying to figure out LED lighting solutions out for it. For my purposes, it looks like 5-6 PAR38 LED bulbs are going to do nicely, screwed into some IKEA ceiling fixtures. This way I don't get some gawdy aquarium specific looking fixture in the entrance of my home (where the room divider is).


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## willknowitall (Oct 3, 2010)

samamorgan said:


> What i meant by "putting together a commercial unit" is getting a couple of led fixtures and hanging them. Simple as that. And i'm willing to bet that if i did DIY, an inch thick heatsink with some emmiters attached looks much better than a massive metal halide unit with reflector and the works.
> 
> On top of all that, the LEDs use 80% less energy than the halides. Hundreds of dollars a year to run halides, less than a hundred a year to run LEDs.
> 
> I say all of this because i've been planning on having a 72"x12"x14" custom rimless tank built, and have been trying to figure out LED lighting solutions out for it. For my purposes, it looks like 5-6 PAR38 LED bulbs are going to do nicely, screwed into some IKEA ceiling fixtures. This way I don't get some gawdy aquarium specific looking fixture in the entrance of my home (where the room divider is).


well my massive halide unit is 8 x 7 x 3 inches and looks streamlined, sleek and beautiful and the light it emits is breathtaking
the color and shimmer is outstanding and completely out of the way of the aquatic scapes view
would love to have some auto dim-able moonlights though
seems to me the led screwed in ikea fixtures would be very low light 
but i hope you get all you are looking for
anyways we have hijacked this thread


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## samamorgan (Dec 31, 2011)

Wouldn't be low light. PAR38 bulbs with cree emmiters are high light, depending on height and whether you dim them or not.

Metal halides are expensive with yearly bulb changes, energy usage, and cooling costs. Not trying to knock your chosen solution, do what you want to do, but there are simply better solutions out there that dont break the bank, and continue to do so monthly.

Here's an example. A family member of mine grows plants in a fairly complex indoor environment. They used 6 1000w metal halide bulbs in the room. With the combined energy usage of those bulbs, and all the exhaust and flow fans required to keep the room at a proper operating temperature, the energy bill was in excess of $300 a month for just the room.

I recently helped him upgrade to some LED grow lights (theyre very ugly, they use a combination of red and blue LEDs) and his energy bill is now around $100 for the room. He was also able to cut back on the fans, and just has one exhaust fan and two flow fans now. There is also no longer any burning issues with the plants, like there were with the halides. And no more yearly bulb changes. All of this was done on what he would have spent on energy alone in a year.


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## willknowitall (Oct 3, 2010)

cooling costs, easily falsified claim. never had them , never will
''your not trying to knock my chosen solution'', but you may use at some future time 
screw in leds and ikea fixtures
ironic
have you tried a de mh have you tried aquamedic spacelight ex, have you tried ada bulbs
''simple better solutions'', hmmm thats a personal call and depends on who ownes the bank and what the bank is willing to spend
an good analogy is something like differant cars, some get good gas milage and some look great and get good performance some cost a little, some a lot
its like your telling a high end car owner he could be getting better gas milage, well thats the least of his/hers concerns
the bottom line is show me a led fixture that looks as nice ,quality of lights as nice, shimmer is as nice and costs as much or even a little more and im sold
but i already have a great light settup so maybe later


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## brainwavepc.com (Sep 27, 2011)

laxcoach18 said:


> It is 135 gallons, as the poster below agreed with. I have purchased those types of lights online and they do not penetrate the bottom. I have no interested in spending my money on those.


Interesting, same dimensions as mine and I was told I was buying 125 gallons. Cool free upgrade. 

However I have to disagree on penetration I set these directly on top and get light all the way to bottom. I have some small crypts that are almost flush with bottom and they are growing fine. 

I also have other short plants they get plenty of light.


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## samamorgan (Dec 31, 2011)

willknowitall said:


> cooling costs, easily falsified claim. never had them , never will


Congrats, you live in Canada. Does it get cold there, ever? Do you even have an air conditioner? Move to Arizona like the OP and then we'll see who's complaining about the heat. Do some reading about the actual heat output of MH. Metal halide bulbs put out ~75% of the energy used as heat. The only light that puts out more heat than a MH is an incandescent bulb. This problem presents itself over and over with hydroponics, marijuana growers, and reefers.


> ''your not trying to knock my chosen solution'', but you may use at some future time screw in leds and ikea fixtures ironic


If you don't understand what i'm talking about, please refrain from commenting about it.


> have you tried a de mh have you tried aquamedic spacelight ex, have you tried ada bulbs


No, I haven't. Have you tried LEDs or flourescent? Done any research on either? When researching lighting solutions I went with the best I could find within reasonable cost. MH didnt even come close to being on my list after researching the potential problems with cooling and the overall running cost. I have seen them being used for display tanks locally, the ADA fixture in particular looks nearly identical to mine in terms of light output and shimmer.


> ''simple better solutions'', hmmm thats a personal call and depends on who ownes the bank and what the bank is willing to spend


Everything is a personal call. Some people like clown puke aquarium gravel and glofish. I personally think they're retarded, but hey, it's their money.


> an good analogy is something like differant cars, some get good gas milage and some look great and get good performance some cost a little, some a lot its like your telling a high end car owner he could be getting better gas milage, well thats the least of his/hers concerns


Go get a Ferarri, i'll grab a Tesla, we'll see who beats who off the line, and gets better gas mileage, and who paid less for their car. Technology advances, and the past gets phased out as the "new thing" gets cheaper and cheaper. How many people do you see running undergravel filters anymore? I'm not saying MH isn't a viable option, it just simply isn't the most economical, flexible, or powerful one. Especially in a warm climate.


> the bottom line is show me a led fixture that looks as nice ,quality of lights as nice, shimmer is as nice and costs as much or even a little more and im sold but i already have a great light settup so maybe later


Please refer to the LED Lighting Compendium sticky at the top of this forum. There are a plethora of solutions listed there that meet or surpass MH in terms of performance and cost. Shimmer effect is the same with LEDs, all based on refraction/defraction and interference coming from the multiple light sources. T5s don't shimmer because the light comes from a much larger area, lessening interference. LEDs and MH are both focused sourcs, and have multiple points of impact (provided by the reflector on MHs and the multiple emmiters on LEDs). I believe you can even get shimmer from flourescent if you raise the light high enough and have a pretty damned powerful bulb.


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## WingoAgency (Jan 10, 2006)

@willknowitall

Depends where you look and what features you need, for <$400 I can get
2 finished LED fixtures with combined power of 96W LED power(that is about 300W MH/PC/T5)
and they look like this 









FTS of the tank under a more extensive version with many more wavelength of LEDs(of course more money, LOL):
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/new-york/162783-update-wingo-led-ligts-planted-tank.html


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## WingoAgency (Jan 10, 2006)

laxcoach18 said:


> 72x18x24


May I know your budget, I do not believe LED is out of the reach if you look at the right place, and you don't have to DIY either.

24 height is not tall at all when using LEDs paired with lens.

Use 60 degree lens and you will find you PAR shoot up at least double to triple. 

I strongly suggest you to use CO2 when using LEDs because even when our eyes are not feeling the brightness, their PAR is already on the roof. Our eye are very sensitive to green which are produced by the Florescent light and MH, but not very useful to plant. So we will feel the brightness not the PAR (better say PUR) level.

Please check the tank I link above, I cannot remember exactly the PAR values, but I think some area of the bottom has over 150.


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## laxcoach18 (Nov 11, 2010)

brainwavepc.com said:


> However I have to disagree on penetration I set these directly on top and get light all the way to bottom. I have some small crypts that are almost flush with bottom and they are growing fine.
> 
> I also have other short plants they get plenty of light.


I've hosted a couple club meetings at my home and a other members have agreed. Some plants, like many crypts, do not need strong light at the bottom to flourish. My stem plants do not have any leaves from the middle down. Typical low grow plants won't stay low unless I hack them. I want some red in my tank. Its all just a personal preference and I want a new lighting system.


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## laxcoach18 (Nov 11, 2010)

WingoAgency said:


> May I know your budget, I do not believe LED is out of the reach if you look at the right place, and you don't have to DIY either.
> 
> 24 height is not tall at all when using LEDs paired with lens.
> 
> ...


I don't want to go above $450. I already have a 15lb CO2 tank running via an in-tank reactor. In-line reactors killed my filtration on one of my filters.


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## Kathyy (Feb 22, 2010)

My FNI 150 watt fixtures are too hot to touch when lit. I can handle the outer edges is all. No real owies though, just hurts when I bump the lit fixture. I love the spaceship look of these things as my house is mid century modern and these fit right in.

I would be having a lot of fun researching PAR 38 LED bulbs to put inside IKEA pendants if I didn't have the FNIs. I really prefer pendants to a strip over the top of the tank. The bulbs I think would work cost something like $50-100 and I would want at least one every 12-18"? Even though it doesn't look expensive this would add up fast and I sure am not doing anything until the FNIs are toast. Hoping that is a while yet, they are 2 years old and the other MHs were going strong [and noisy] for 10 years. I think it is Dogfish who has done this most recently and a couple of other people have done the same thing. I think the annoying shadow from the brace I had was partly refractive so a bulb directly over the glass wouldn't have that shadow.

But T5HOs with good reflectors would work just fine too. Really.


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## willknowitall (Oct 3, 2010)

samamorgen im not spending all this time on this thread knocking leds
have no reason to


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## willknowitall (Oct 3, 2010)

WingoAgency said:


> @willknowitall
> 
> Depends where you look and what features you need, for <$400 I can get
> 2 finished LED fixtures with combined power of 96W LED power(that is about 300W MH/PC/T5)
> ...


thats cool, looks like you are getting sort of different colors showing thru
like the spectrum is fractured or is that the photo
nice tank


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## WingoAgency (Jan 10, 2006)

willknowitall said:


> thats cool, looks like you are getting sort of different colors showing thru
> like the spectrum is fractured or is that the photo
> nice tank


I cannot remember exactly how many colors of LED are used, but at least I remember, 3 to 4 kind of white, red, green and may have been royal blue too. However, I only use 2 channels of control in this build rather than my usual 5-7 channels of control when multicolor LEDs are used.


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