# I have this Dream!!!! 150 gallon Aquascaped discus tank



## discuspaul (Jul 27, 2010)

Proceed with your dream - it could work out very well for you.

I would urge you though, before beginning, to do a good deal of homework on discus-keeping to set you off on the right foot.

As for your questions, here's my suggestions:

1. Substrate: For the sake of being able to maintain as near ideal tank cleanliness as possible to ensure continuing discus health, suggest you consider pool filter sand.

2. You can readily grow many types of plants in PFS, using root tab ferts, such as many species of Amazon swords, Jumbo grasses, Crypts, Hygros, Rotalas, Bacopas, Lotuses, Vals & Sags, Anubias, Java Ferns, and a number of others.
As a concession to the plants, consider maintaining temp no higher than 83-84 F.

3. Assuming you go low-tech, lighting need not be more than low to medium intensity.
No particular specialty lighting - I like T5 HO.

4. Driftwood or rocks - suit yourself - but be cautious about any hardscape not having many sharp ends/edges so that the discus don't injure themselves. Leave the discus a good amount of swimming space no matter how & with what you set up.

5. Compatible tankmates are many - Several types of Tetras, e.g. Cardinals, Rummy-Noses, Bloodfins, Bleeding Hearts, Head & Tail Lights, Glo-Lights, etc.
Cories for bottom-dwelling clean-up crew; German Blue Rams; Rasboras; Hatchet Fish; BNP's - there are many other species too - just research their compatability for keeping with discus. Avoid any fish that can grow quite large and may show aggression, which can intimidate and stress discus - as well as very active, fast moving fish which tend to startle discus, or any 'nippers' - along with fish that are small enough to temp discus for lunch, e.g. immature neons.

With near adult discus in your intended set-up, you should be fine with not doing large, frequent wcs, but in order to thrive discus do nonetheless need occasional dosages of fresh, clean water, and good tank cleansing husbandry, so you'll want to build in some reasonable routine to accommodate this.
Hope this helps.
Best of luck to you !


----------



## discuspaul (Jul 27, 2010)

P.S. 
With pics being worth a thousand words, here's a couple of low-tech planted discus tank set-ups that are by no means dramatic nor very inspiring, but are quite functional in terms of allowing for a more than adequate tank cleansing regimen, and maintenance of good water quality & conditions.
It may give you some ideas for your much larger tank, which can be made to look outstanding:

http://s1105.photobucket.com/albums/h357/discuspaul/Sept2011
http://s1105.photobucket.com/albums/h357/discuspaul/3RedSnakeSkins


----------



## Richie88 (Jul 4, 2013)

*Thank you*

I just wanted to thank you for the reply you gave me pretty much exactly what I was looking for just an idea of what plants I need to be looking into and I'm not quite sure I understand the substrate yet but I heard people talking about capping it I think this refers to laying a different layer over the other.

Would these plants being low tech requiring dosing if so can you explain more as to what that is?


----------



## niko (Mar 8, 2006)

With discus the main scare is that because they are very dirty fish the tank will eventually get dirty enough to where algae will eat you alive. That means one thing - you must setup the tank in such a way that it helps you keep everything clean.

- Install the largest sump you can. Both the mechanical and biological filtration needs to be top notch. Funny enough you will not find a "Filtration" section on this forum. In short - your biofiltration needs to be 10% of the tank volume. The water needs to be crystal clear at all times (meaning great mechanical filtration too). But remember that no mechanical filtration beats a well established and healthy biofilter.

- Establish very good water flow pattern (no stagnant areas anywhere in the tank). That does not mean you need huge flow rates. It means that you need to have a smooth flow that goes uninterrupted from the outflow pipe to the inflow pipe. No pumps shooting water across the main flow.

- Discus feel best in tanks with lots of open space and one hiding area. If the tank ends up densely planted the group will break up into a few small groups and they will get territorial too.

- High fertilizers in the water are not a good idea. Both because with a risk of the tank getting dirty algae can take over literally overnight and because discus react very positively to lowering the high fertilizers in the water.

- Hope you know that - without daily water changes and lots of food the discus will not grow. Don't by 1" fish and expect them to grow in your tank if you don't do the above two.

- There are about two truly beautiful planted discus tank on the net. You can be #3!

- Here's a video of a planted discus tank that is done with AquaSoil (at least partly). I tend to agree with Discuspaul about using pool filter sand. But as you can see you can use the best planted tank substrate available too. And remember - that substrate has been engineered to suck certain fertilizers out of the water and provide great plant growth with pristinely clean water without detectable fertilizers. That can only help in a discus tank. Also note - his filter is 30% of the size of the tank, his flow is strong, 10-20% daily water change, and he does not add fertilizers to the water.


----------



## discuspaul (Jul 27, 2010)

Richie88 said:


> I just wanted to thank you for the reply you gave me pretty much exactly what I was looking for just an idea of what plants I need to be looking into and I'm not quite sure I understand the substrate yet but I heard people talking about capping it I think this refers to laying a different layer over the other.
> 
> Would these plants being low tech requiring dosing if so can you explain more as to what that is?


 
Richie, it may help you to have a read through my 'Beginner's Guide to Getting Started with Discus' - it's within the first & only Sticky in the 'Fish' section, titled - articles & faq. Click on that sticky for my guide.

As to substrate, please do yourself a favor & don't do any double-layering of different substrates (i.e. capping- not good for a discus tank) - use only straight pool filter sand obtained from a pool supply store - you'll need at least 3 bags X 50 lbs. each costing about $30.-$40. in total, to layer your tank with approx. 1"- 1.5" at the front, to no more than 3" at the rear.

This will provide the necessary basis to grow those plants I outlined, with low/medium lighting over an 8 hour/day lighting period, and using nothing but root tab fertilizers ( Seachem Flourish tabs is a good brand, as is API tabs), replaced about every 4-5 months. This should be supplemented with weekly dosing of liquid or dry NPK (macro ferts) and some occasional micro ferts. All are readily available in liquid form by Seachem (Seachem Flourish Comprehensive Supplement comes to mind) and other brand names, or in less expensive dry form by a number of on-line outlets.

To conclude, Richie, I would be more than happy to help you out, step by step if need be, so please don't hesitate to PM me anytime if you feel I can be of any assistance at all.
Once again, all the best of luck to you.
Regards,
Paul


----------



## Richie88 (Jul 4, 2013)

*Thank you*

Thank you very much niko and discus Paul I appreciate all the help and don't worry I will pm you if I need help.

I do have 1 question though I'm making this tank to reduce the water changes I'm doing currently will this natural environment not basically cut my water changes down some due to the plants using the nitrates and the large amount of good bacteria removing nitrites and ammonia other small bottom feeders to help clean up after the messy discus?

Or will all this be in vain I'm trying to get 2 birds with 1 stone a pretty tank compare to bare bottom and some less work water change wise like instead of daily maybe like every 3 days or so? Or maybe if it was really good once a week I can dream


----------



## waterfaller1 (Jul 5, 2006)

I keep goldfish in a 90 gallon with built in overflow and a 29 gal sump. They have to be as messy as discus, and I do 50% water changes once a week. I use a filter sock where the water inputs the sump. Then there are 4X large media bags with eheim media, then a bulkhead on the side of the sump that leads to an external return pump.


----------



## discuspaul (Jul 27, 2010)

Richie88 said:


> Thank you very much niko and discus Paul I appreciate all the help and don't worry I will pm you if I need help.
> 
> I do have 1 question though I'm making this tank to reduce the water changes I'm doing currently will this natural environment not basically cut my water changes down some due to the plants using the nitrates and the large amount of good bacteria removing nitrites and ammonia other small bottom feeders to help clean up after the messy discus?
> 
> Or will all this be in vain I'm trying to get 2 birds with 1 stone a pretty tank compare to bare bottom and some less work water change wise like instead of daily maybe like every 3 days or so? Or maybe if it was really good once a week I can dream


 
There is no question that if you follow your plans for maintaining a low bio-load, with ample sump system, and getting discus of at least 4" in size, you will definitely reduce the need for frequent wcs. I would suggest you could (likely) readily get away with one large wc per week, if you also
undertake some reasonable substrate vacuuming/cleansing while doing that.

Depending on how well you are able to maintain high water quality and conditions, your discus' growth should not be limited to any serious extent, although their development to full maturity/size potential may be slowed up beyond the norm.
If you see your way clear to doing 2 wcs per week, I believe you could easily produce a pretty much ideal environment for the discus.


----------



## mjweismann (Mar 21, 2004)

Paul, why pool filter sand and not something like Seachem Fluorite or Fluorite sand or the two mixed together to give plant roots something to grab onto? How bout Eco-Complete?


----------



## discuspaul (Jul 27, 2010)

Those substrates are excellent tank-bottom mediums and should definitely be considered for use in many, if not most, planted tank set-ups with a variety of fish species.

In fact, some of those, in my view, are just a shade less desirable than PFS, primarily due to their generally being more expensive.

With discus however, and as you may know, one of the most important measures of success is to maintain the highest water quality and conditions possible, which is achievable largely through fastidious tank cleansing husbandry.

To make a long story very short, over many years of keeping discus, and after having used many different types of substrates in planted environments, I've found that pool filter sand is the easiest medium in which to produce & maintain squeaky clean conditions in a planted discus tank. 

It's clean, dust and grit-free, dense enough not to get sucked up when vacuuming, and will not get free-floating into the water column to clog filtration systems when disturbed. It looks good too, and will grow plants very well with the ongoing regular use of root tab ferts.
And you won't get the same optimum results at maintaining high quality tank bottom conditions by mixing anything with PFS, or topping some other substrate with PFS.
Hope that explains to a degree.
In any event, that's my view, and I'll stick to it. LOL


----------



## mjweismann (Mar 21, 2004)

It does, Paul. Thank you. After being out of the hobby for I don't want to say how long, I'm looking to do something similar to Richie, but likely even bigger. I do have one other question for a Discus expert though. The one thing that would keep me from Discus is the temperature requirements because I think it cuts down on the variety of co-inhabitants you can choose from. What would you say is the lowest safe temp you can keep Discus at? Oh and I lied, one last question on substrate. I tended to want to go black because I thought it's the best to show off the color of fish. Do you think white works for that too? --Mike


----------



## discuspaul (Jul 27, 2010)

Your questions are very good, Mike, but could have a range of different answers which might all have some merit.
I'm no discus expert, but I'll give you some answers based on what I believe is quite acceptable.
- Temp: For near adult, or adult discus, (4" or larger) I believe the temp to be maintained on a relatively constant basis should not be lower than 82 F.
For juvenile discus, say 2" to 4" in size, I'd say up that by 2 degrees, to minimum 84 F.

But you need not consider those temps to affect the choice of compatible tank-mates for discus - there are quite a number of species of compatible discus tank-mates that can readily handle any temp you may wish to keep for discus, from 82 up to 86, or even higher for temporary periods. 
If, for example, Cardinals, Rummy-noses, Lemons or other Tetras can do well in 80 F, then they can also do just as well in 85 F. Same goes for most Cories, GBR's, and Rasboras, to name a few - no need to be overly concerned in this area. Although I will say that the lower range of temp will likely somewhat prolong the lives of many discus tank-mates.

As for substrate color - in many ways that's simply a matter of personal choice. Many people swear by lighter shades, while many others prefer black or darker colors. There seems to be an even split between those who say that black substrate makes fish and plant colors really pop and doesn't show the 'dirt' as easily, and the proponents of white, who will say the same thing about a pastel shade making fish & plant colors look more pronounced, and that it gives a tank a more 'natural' look. 
I prefer white, because I've found that black, or dark shades, will tend to cause discus' colorations to darken overall, in sympathy with their surroundings, and definitely will enhance peppering in pigeon-based fish - something that is considered undesirable in discus.


----------



## waterfaller1 (Jul 5, 2006)

So much great info. When I broke down my sw 90 gal tank, I considered discus. I think I have the perfect set up for them. I believe it was the frequent water changes that scared me off. I keep fancy goldfish, and once a week wc's is enough for me.


----------



## mjweismann (Mar 21, 2004)

Thanks for all the info, Paul. Very helpful.


----------



## Achintya (Jun 22, 2013)

*Discus in a planted aquarium:*

Without any doubt, planted tank is one the beautiful looking of any kind of tanks. Many of us love to keep planted tank. It’s nice to see some awesome planted aquarium. It’s a great feelings when one keep beautiful discus in a planted tank. Especially when we see beautiful planted tank with discus we are amazed to see this beauty. Let me assume that you also keep planted tank. Now for the first time you want to keep discus in your planted. Ok, don’t worry. You can keep discus if you know some tricks about them.


*i) Different types of discus that you can keep in a planted tank:*

You have to be choosy enough for different strain of discus in a planted tank. You can’t choose all types of discus in a planted tank. Let me assume that you have a beautiful planted set up. But you keep some peepering prone or such type of discus. I see many planted experts keeping discus in their tanks but they keep juvenile and peepering discus. I feel very sad to see this. So to avoid this you can keep all turquoise strain, leopard, snakeskin, san merah, blue diamond etc.


You know planted tank can be classified of 2 different types. One is low-tech set up with DIY CO2, DIY substrate, low-medium light etc. keeping discus in this type of set up is comparatively easier.one can keep adult discus in this low-tech set up after 4-5 months of set up. Once the tank is settled well and tends to mature then you can keep them.


Other type of set up is *high-tech* planted tank with pressurised CO2 system, branded substrate, high light, proper dosing etc. keeping discus in this type of set up is little tricky. A branded substrate can cause problem for discus. In addition, due to high light, dosing, CO2 your discus can be stressed. So to avoid this what’s the option? The only option is to keep adult discus settling in this type of environment. I know many planted discus keepers who keep adult discus in a temporary planted set up and if a discus is settled enough then only they can transfer that discus to the main planted tank. But in your case I like to say that keep 4-4.5 inch+ (at least) discus. As you know adult discus is having more resistance power, so it will not be too much problem. Also one thing that I like to suggest you, In case of hi-tech planted set up please keep discus once tank is fully matured. During set up time there can be some fluctuation of water parameters which is hazardous to discus. You may say that in many cases I see lots of other strain of discus housing in a hi-tech planted tank. In most of the cases those discus are kept in this set up for a better video or picture purpose.



*ii) Fish size you’ll choose for this type of tank:*
Keeping discus in a planted aquarium is not like keeping discus in other types of tank. In other type of tanks you can easily keep and successfully raise 2-.25 inch discus. But for planted tank I suggest you to keep adult discus. As we all know adult discus can adapt more than juveniles. So keeping 4 inch plus discus is a very option for a planted tank. Since you use pressurised CO2 (for high-tech set up), we’ll often find juveniles are stressed or often goes top level of water. Discus demands more oxygen and in case of juveniles they need more than adult. That’s one of the reasons to choose adult discus in a planted tank. From my previous post you know that discus will live better in a group. So keeping a batch of 4 inch size discus will be no problem for you.


----------



## Fish from Philly (May 28, 2013)

Just wanted to chime in - I JUST finished aquascaping a 150 gallon with the idea of adding discus eventually. I have 2/3 of the tank planted with exactly what Paul recommended (anubias and java fern on d/w, rotala, cyrpts, vals, etc) and the other third left with just sand for negative space. I did use eco complete under the sand for the heavier planted areas and can tell you after a few vacuumings they are mixed up and it doesn't look as good as I wanted. If I did it over again, I would probably only use ecocomplete in the background (2" deep or so) and then add 1" of PFS over it. In the midground and foreground, I would only use PFS. 

T5 are proven to work great. LED technology for plants has gotten much better though and is cheaper in long run (avoid buying new bulbs every year since LED last 7+ years). I bought a custom one from BuildMyLED and it is super bright with red nodes to bring out the color of red plants and discus. 

I have both driftwood and rock. When adding rock, try putting some vinegar on it and if it fizzes, do not use! You dont want to add hardness to water. My new discus love to go in and out of the cover of the dw and think most discus tanks looks best with at least d/w. 

I keep mine with a school of cory sterbai (about 12) and a school of 25 rummys. I also have like 10 cardinals and 8 emperors but I think I will eventually set up a new tank and move them there for more room for discus. 

Take your time setting it up and keep reading. Aquascaping for discus tanks is not the same as any other tank so it takes planning and research to be successful. Once done right, it is totally worth it. Good luck buddy!


----------



## Jonnywhoop (May 30, 2012)

we all have this dream..


----------



## steakman (Feb 3, 2012)

Setting up and maintaining a discus planted tank requires lots of work. That's the reason why discus knowledge people or breeders are giving up on this idea, but it's not something you can not do.

I have to stretch this out: Do not plan to raise young or juvie discus in a planted tank, period. 

Reason is, they need to be fed A LOT to be grown normally or else you'll see stunted and/or unhealthy fish with tons of health issues later on. 

In return, they require WC 2-3 times/DAILY - NOT WEEKLY, and most of the time, you have to do 50% up to 80% of tank's water volume.

If you really want to do planted tank discus, save yourself money (in the long run), headache, and heartache by buying full grown healthy discus. It costs more but it's a surer bet.

Google it, you will find images of stunted discus, which have:

- ugly body shapes like a football instead of nice rounded body

- huge eyes compare with the rest of its body

- darker or fainted colors

- And WORST OF ALL, he or she will be the subject of tank-mates' abuse, always hiding in the corner out of sight. He or she will never has a chance to eat or swims with the crowd.

PFS is good due to its compactness to keep waste on top for easy cleaning. Choosing lighter sand color is almost a must because darker substrate tend to darken discus colors and also brings out their pepper (black spots) coloring.

Good luck in fulfilling your dream ...

SM


----------

