# Akadama Picture Thread



## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

hmmm still thinking.


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## nilocg (Jul 12, 2010)

sayurasem said:


> hmmm still thinking.


Trust me, my pictures doesnt do it justice. Just wait until Speedie starts posting pictures. It looks pretty nice.


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

Why is the BTOE side darker?


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## madness (Jul 31, 2011)

jkan0228 said:


> Why is the BTOE side darker?


I believe that the light source is on the far right hand side. You can see the top right trim of the tank being cast as a shadow on the substrate about 8 inches in from the right.

This would mean that the sponge tank divider would cast a shadow fully across the smaller (left side) partition of the tank.

edit: or maybe he already wet the soil on that side.

Or maybe he used food coloring.


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## madness (Jul 31, 2011)

I got my akadama in the mail from Colin on Saturday but I still haven't opened the box yet (been busy). I am strongly leaning towards using it as the 'base' layer in a UGF cube tank with aqua soil as the 'capping layer.' (UGF, Matrix, akadama, AS from bottom to top)

If I do I will be sure to take photos of it. I have all of the supplies and the UGF pipe system is 90% completed (I just need to pull the Eheim intake tube out to cut/shorten it so that the U part goes right over the rim of the Ebi I am using it in and also need to use channel locks to finish tightening the quick connect fitting to the threaded 90 degree elbow). I just can't find the time lately.


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## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

Stuff is record expensive for what appears to be just an inert soil with high CEC ability. There are a significant amount of products on the market that do the same thing. Is there something that I am missing here?


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## h4n (Jan 4, 2006)

a lot of UGF setup lately, how do you guys keep them from getting clogged?


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## madness (Jul 31, 2011)

h4n said:


> a lot of UGF setup lately, how do you guys keep them from getting clogged?


By the substrate or by roots? With the pipe systems the root clogging is less of an issue and the tanks are usually shrimp tanks rather than heavily planted tanks anyways.

Burying the UGF pipe under another layer of substrate (or under glass/ceramic biomedia like Liam uses) that is less likely to break down is reported to help limit the substrate clogging and premature break-down of the substrate.


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

Gatekeeper said:


> Stuff is record expensive for what appears to be just an inert soil with high CEC ability. There are a significant amount of products on the market that do the same thing. Is there something that I am missing here?


Hm... I thought akadama also buffered the water column and lowered the pH?


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi diwu13,

I believe Gatekeeper was correct; most of the high CEC substrates I have used lowered the PH and KH.


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## nilocg (Jul 12, 2010)

jkan0228 said:


> Why is the BTOE side darker?


It just a light casting a shadow.



Gatekeeper said:


> Stuff is record expensive for what appears to be just an inert soil with high CEC ability. There are a significant amount of products on the market that do the same thing. Is there something that I am missing here?


It pretty much does everything that aquasoil does but does not leach ammonia. Which in a shrimp tank is nice.


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## Bahugo (Apr 18, 2011)

I have been using Akadama for a few months now in some of my tanks, and about 2~ months now in a high tech set up. I opted the 2nd time not too rinse it and had 0 cloudiness when I filled it. 
*
Thin layer of peat *I did a fine dusting, maybe 1/4th of an inch. 
*









Some root tabs









Akadama in *roughly 2" in the front too 4" in the back from 1 bag of Akadama in a 20g long tank. 










After a broken seal on the tank (had to take it down and bring it back too petsmart) and some rescaping this is what the tank looks like now.


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

h4n said:


> a lot of UGF setup lately, how do you guys keep them from getting clogged?


It's the best way for shrimp tanks. They are prevented from clogging by layering a layer of lava rocks or bio media matrix under the soil. UGF -> larger particle layer - > soil.


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## krillkill (Oct 2, 2010)

Gatekeeper said:


> Stuff is record expensive for what appears to be just an inert soil with high CEC ability. There are a significant amount of products on the market that do the same thing. Is there something that I am missing here?


 Though akadama is at a record high, its cheaper than aqua soil and does the same thing. Only down side, IMO, is the color. I can't really think of anything cheaper than akadama as a substrate except for sand.


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## h4n (Jan 4, 2006)

shrimpnmoss said:


> It's the best way for shrimp tanks. They are prevented from clogging by layering a layer of lava rocks or bio media matrix under the soil. UGF -> larger particle layer - > soil.


Ic, thanks for the info! I might try this, if I ever setup another tank.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Lovin the color! To each his own  

I'll post pics later tonight... been REAL busy lately.


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

h4n said:


> Ic, thanks for the info! I might try this, if I ever setup another tank.


I see you run lots of shrimp tanks in your signature. Try the UGF method if you ever redo a shrimp tank. You won't go back to other set ups and you'll have the cleanest water you've ever seen in your tanks. Ask Speedy he's a convert.


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## Bahugo (Apr 18, 2011)

speedie408 said:


> Lovin the color! To each his own
> 
> I'll post pics later tonight... been REAL busy lately.


I agree with speedie I actually enjoy the color. 

Really don't understand the complaint about gravel size not being the same throughout. It is pretty uniformed in my experience, are some different? Yes, but people make it sound like you are going too pull out golfball sized chunks once it is in the tank it isn't noticeable unless you were going to sit there and nitpick at it. I can say with every substrate I have used that it is not one hundred percent uniformed.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

shrimpnmoss said:


> I see you run lots of shrimp tanks in your signature. Try the UGF method if you ever redo a shrimp tank. You won't go back to other set ups and you'll have the cleanest water you've ever seen in your tanks. Ask Speedy he's a convert.


This guy got me hooked on UGF systems! DO it and you won't go back to having only sponge filters.


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## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

nilocg said:


> It pretty much does everything that aquasoil does but does not leach ammonia. Which in a shrimp tank is nice.





krillkill said:


> Though akadama is at a record high, its cheaper than aqua soil and does the same thing. Only down side, IMO, is the color. I can't really think of anything cheaper than akadama as a substrate except for sand.


Woah woah woah....slow down. Same thing as aquasoil? That is an over the top statement. 

Please cite your sources or your research to promote these ideas. Otherwise, its just hearsay and fodder for the gossip column. (And just cause it doesn't leach ammonia, doesn't make it better).

I believe a nutrient breakdown is in order please. Sources should be linked and at a minimum, provide some type of research to justify this claim.

Otherwise.... sorry folks.... I ain't drinking the Kool Aid.


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## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

Here is one link that should be read.

http://www.bonsai4me.com/Basics/Basics_Soils.html

Scroll right down to the "Inorganic Soil Mixes and Components" section.


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## nilocg (Jul 12, 2010)

Gatekeeper said:


> Woah woah woah....slow down. Same thing as aquasoil? That is an over the top statement.
> 
> Please cite your sources or your research to promote these ideas. Otherwise, its just hearsay and fodder for the gossip column. (And just cause it doesn't leach ammonia, doesn't make it better).
> 
> ...



Woah, woah woah.... I said it does pretty much what AS does in that it buffers the PH and reduces the KH. In my opinion the fact that Akadama does not leach ammonia is a pretty big advantage when used in shrimp tanks(which is what akadama is mostly used for). 

I dont have any double blind studies to support Akadama as being effective but please read here: http://www.shrimpnow.com/forums/forum.php


I dont think that anyone is saying it is better than AS or even FSS for that matter, its just a cheaper alternative that many people have shown to work very well in shrimp tanks(and planted tanks for that matter).


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## nilocg (Jul 12, 2010)

Gatekeeper said:


> Here is one link that should be read.
> 
> http://www.bonsai4me.com/Basics/Basics_Soils.html
> 
> Scroll right down to the "Inorganic Soil Mixes and Components" section.


I read it, its one persons opinion, he may be right, he may be wrong. He is also talking about its usefulness with respect to growing bonsai tree's, not shrimp. 

Excerpt from http://www.bonsai4me.com/Basics/Basics_Soils.html

_"However, while Akadama might be considered a good quality soil, *in my opinion* it is no better than the cheaper and more easily obtainable fired-clay soils that are produced in the West."_


I really dont want to get into an argument between AS and Akadama. It has been shown they both work well for shrimp, if you want to stick with AS that is great.


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## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

This is not an argument. I am merely pointing out that claiming something is comparable to another should be founded with evidence. _Especially when your selling the product_. 

Aquasoil is a nutrient rich substrate manufactured for aquatic plants. Akadama is a volcanic soil produced through a natural process. Through this process, it has developed a high CEC content and I have no doubt that with a proper nutrient supply in a tank (or from its source in nature), this substrate would provide inherent benefit on the backend. But its not aquasoil. Its not in the same category. From a "shrimp safe" standpoint, I guess your claim is somewhat correct in that it won't inherently leach ammonia, but based on the foundation that in its natural form, it has not nitrogen byproduct to give off.

This is NOT a planted tank "set it and forget it". It is no different from a nutrient supply standpoint as Schultz, SMS, Turface, etc.


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## nilocg (Jul 12, 2010)

Gatekeeper said:


> This is not an argument. I am merely pointing out that claiming something is comparable to another should be founded with evidence. _Especially when your selling the product_.
> 
> Aquasoil is a nutrient rich substrate manufactured for aquatic plants. Akadama is a volcanic soil produced through a natural process. Through this process, it has developed a high CEC content and I have no doubt that with a proper nutrient supply in a tank (or from its source in nature), this substrate would provide inherent benefit on the backend. But its not aquasoil. Its not in the same category. From a "shrimp safe" standpoint, I guess your claim is somewhat correct in that it won't inherently leach ammonia, but based on the foundation that in its natural form, it has not nitrogen byproduct to give off.
> 
> *This is NOT a planted tank "set it and forget it". It is no different from a nutrient supply standpoint as Schultz, SMS, Turface, etc.*


I completely agree, I suppose I should have been more clear, I was not talking about planted tanks. In planted tanks AS has many benefits that Akadama does not come prepackaged with. In shrimp tanks akadama has one, fairly large benefit(again in my opinion), in that it doesnt leach ammonia.


Anyways, on with the pictures. Where's Speedie at?


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## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

This being published in the "general planted tank forums" is a bit misleading then, don't you think? 

Perhaps my old age is getting to me, but I must have misunderstood your naiveté with the products fundamental foundation. I would suggest a bit more discretion in the cavalier attitude and projection of such a product in the planted tank hobby as a blanket application for this forum to interpret and use as a supplement to the manufactured ADA Aquasoil line. The "its just like ADA, but I don't know anything about it and would love some background" is a bit over the top, no? 

I don't refute its use for shrimp. I can't handle these fancy shrimps that all you guys pay all this money for, so I wouldn't know the difference in that respect.

Now, will this substrate be beneficial in a planted tank over an inert substrate? No doubt. But there are others that would provide a very similar benefit. But I do like the color and texture! It does seem to have a bit of resounding texture.


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## nilocg (Jul 12, 2010)

Gatekeeper said:


> This being published in the "general planted tank forums" is a bit misleading then, don't you think?
> 
> Perhaps my old age is getting to me, but I must have misunderstood your naiveté with the products fundamental foundation. I would suggest a bit more discretion in the cavalier attitude and projection of such a product in the planted tank hobby as a blanket application for this forum to interpret and use as a supplement to the manufactured ADA Aquasoil line. The "its just like ADA, but I don't know anything about it and would love some background" is a bit over the top, no?
> 
> ...


Im a little confused but I suppose that happens a lot. Again I am sorry for misleading you. For anyone else who felt mislead please accept my sincerest apologies. With respect to its benefits to shrimp tanks Akadama is very similar to AS. Is that an OK statement? That is as far as I will compare the two from now on so as to not be naive or cavalier.


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## Bahugo (Apr 18, 2011)

nilocg said:


> which is what akadama is mostly used for.


I strongly disagree with this statement. It has been used much longer and more frequently in planted tanks. 

I am going too have too agree with Gatekeeper that your approach at selling Akadama can be very misleading by comparing it too aquasoil. They are two very different substrates. Akadama is great at buffering ph/kh, but doesn't buffer the ph as low as aquasoil. Outside of that there are no "real" similarities. 

I love my Akadama with high tech tanks and shrimp tanks, but I am not going to say that nutrient wise it is anything compared too AS.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

My shrimp are loving this substrate.

Before:









After:


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## nilocg (Jul 12, 2010)

Other than you, Bahugo, and James from the UK, I dont know of any other planted tanks that use Akadama. Im sure there are plenty of them and I would certainly love to see them. I am again thinking about taking down my tank with blasting sand to add akadama. If you could post pictures or some or link to them it would be greatly appreciated. 



Bahugo said:


> I strongly disagree with this statement. It has been used much longer and more frequently in planted tanks.
> 
> I am going too have too agree with Gatekeeper that your approach at selling Akadama can be very misleading by comparing it too aquasoil. They are two very different substrates. Akadama is great at buffering ph/kh, but doesn't buffer the ph as low as aquasoil. Outside of that there are no "real" similarities.
> 
> I love my Akadama with high tech tanks and shrimp tanks, but I am not going to say that nutrient wise it is anything compared too AS.


Again I am sorry if I have mislead anyone, any comparison that I have made to AS was with respect to its benefits to a shrimp tank. 

I have never intended to mislead anyone. If you purchased the akadama from me and felt like you were mislead please pm me. I will make it right.


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## h4n (Jan 4, 2006)

Did you make those pipes yourself Nick?


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## smg980 (Dec 28, 2007)

speedie408 said:


> My shrimp are loving this substrate.
> 
> Before:
> 
> ...


Is this a UGF kit that you bought Nick?


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

h4n said:


> Did you make those pipes yourself Nick?





smg980 said:


> Is this a UGF kit that you bought Nick?


I think these are Azoo pipes. I got them from a good buddy of mine who had his mom bring them over from Asia.


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## madness (Jul 31, 2011)

I don't sell Akadama and I was under the impression that when we were talking about Akadama being comparable to aqua soil it was in reference to the useage of Akadama in shrimp tanks.

The inclusion of UGF pipes and the participation of people who are putting together shrimp specific tanks was sort of a give away, IMO.

Gatekeeper: I don't really care if you are a moderator or not - maybe you could try to ask for clarification next time before strongly implying that someone is making intentionally misleading statements for monetary gain or otherwise implying that they are doing some unethical. This was poorly handled, IMO.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

So whats the big benefit to UGF as opposed to a sponge? I got mislead into thinking I was being mislead into something and lost track. Are you getting better flow? And filtering through a canister?


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Chad,

Having a UGF setup (shrimp tanks only) essentially makes your substrate become part of the overall filtration system. Something about beneficial anaerobic bacteria as well lol, I forget. And yes this also gives you the benefit of having a canister filter for much better water polishing and bio filtration compared to using only a sponge filter. Some folks even go as far as adding pre-filters with even more bio-media in them for even more bio filtration. In the end, you get a crystal clear shrimp tank with ultra clean water, perfect for shrimps! I was a skeptic at first but now I'm hooked. I've got 3 tanks that are currently UGF setups running now.

btw UGF setups won't suck your new born shrimp in your filters.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

dude, Send me back to the 80s :hihi: I have never reallly considered a shrimp tank w/o plants but thanks for the answer  I think this is the best filter idea....unless you keep plants. I suppose a couple moss sticks wouldnt hurt tho huh? Gah, I could NEVER keep a tank w/o plants. I dont have it in me. I would plant something for sure


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Never said you can't keep plants in there bro lol. You can keep whatever plants you can grow, assuming you're not setting up these tanks around your plants but your SHRIMP . I keep moss, HM, and ferns with no problems in these tanks. Remember, plants will assist greatly in the uptake of nitrates, which is bad for shrimp.  My shrimp tanks with lots of plants are much more stable in terms of water quality for shrimp.


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

Another question about UGFs here. How would you know if it starts to clog or not? And if it does start to clog, doesn't that mean you have to break down the entire tank in order to clean the intake?


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

diwu13 said:


> Another question about UGFs here. How would you know if it starts to clog or not? And if it does start to clog, doesn't that mean you have to break down the entire tank in order to clean the intake?


That's why I'm using lava rocks as a base layer. It separates the smaller Akadama top layer from getting to the pipes. Of course some particles will get through but there are so many slits/holes in the pipes that if one hole gets clogged the others will be fine.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Are you guys just pumping them or are they hooked to a canister for chemical filtration too?


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

speedie408 said:


> That's why I'm using lava rocks as a base layer. It separates the smaller Akadama top layer from getting to the pipes. Of course some particles will get through but there are so many slits/holes in the pipes that if one hole gets clogged the others will be fine.


Oh yea I knew you guys would use that or some other larger matrix. Guess there is no "real" way to tell the extent of clogging until you notice the pump rate lessen I guess.

What's the longest you've ran a UGF before without having to conduct maintenance on it?


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

chad320 said:


> Are you guys just pumping them or are they hooked to a canister for chemical filtration too?


Hooked to canisters. I don't use active carbon in any of my canisters. Lots of bio media and basic floss is all that's in there for me. 



diwu13 said:


> Oh yea I knew you guys would use that or some other larger matrix. Guess there is no "real" way to tell the extent of clogging until you notice the pump rate lessen I guess.
> 
> What's the longest you've ran a UGF before without having to conduct maintenance on it?


Maybe Shrimpnmoss will jump in and answer your question since he's been one of the US pioneers of this style of shrimp tank setups. I'd assume these setups would last much much longer than sponge filter setups due to the fact that you can easily clean the canister filters without really disturbing anything inside the tank.


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## madness (Jul 31, 2011)

diwu13 said:


> Another question about UGFs here. How would you know if it starts to clog or not? And if it does start to clog, doesn't that mean you have to break down the entire tank in order to clean the intake?


The holes are not small. 4mm I think that Liam suggested. I used 5/32 which was the closest I could find to 4mm. Once I saw the 1/2" pipe with the holes drilled in it I was able to understand a lot better how the pipes themselves don't clog up quickly.

Most people will be using these in small shrimp tanks and the soil will expire eventually anyways so this isn't really geared primarily towards people hoping to set-up a huge tank or a tank that will remain in use for 5-10 years.

If you know a handful of Asian langauges you could probably comb the Asian shrimp breeding forums and try to figure out how long some of those guys have had UGF pipes set up for.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I was going to use the UGF, a layer of Matrix covered with nylon screen, then almost any substrate except dirt. 

I always like the UGF, even in the 80's when it was under my black gravel of my Piranha tank!

I was even considering a drilled bottom so you wouldn't see anything but the outlet.


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## doonie (Oct 27, 2011)

I really do love this stuff ,and the UG filter in one day my PH when from 7.6 to under 6, my tds also dropped from 180 to 110 and GH and KH also dropped. One is close to cycled and the other a few days out yet. Can't wait to add some shrimp.


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## nilocg (Jul 12, 2010)

doonie said:


> I really do love this stuff ,and the UG filter in one day my PH when from 7.6 to under 6, my tds also dropped from 180 to 110 and GH and KH also dropped. One is close to cycled and the other a few days out yet. Can't wait to add some shrimp.


Looks nice, post pictures when you get some shrimps in there.


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

fts plz!! hehehe


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## nilocg (Jul 12, 2010)

Here are some quick iPhone pictures of my 20L tank finally setup inside. Nothing special yet, still cycling.









Large Grain Akadama rock pile in the back left corner covering the intake


















And my 40B emersed setup which is still recovering from leaving the top open over night.


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## King7 (Jun 8, 2010)

what size grain are you using in your 20L tank? Is that the same size speedie is using in his 20L tank?


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## nilocg (Jul 12, 2010)

King7 said:


> what size grain are you using in your 20L tank? Is that the same size speedie is using in his 20L tank?


Yes it is the small grain, same as in speedie's tank. Large Grain in the corners.


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

nilocg said:


> Yes it is the small grain, same as in speedie's tank. Large Grain in the corners.


wow! thats some huge rocks! So the "Large" grain of akadama bag is all that big?


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## nilocg (Jul 12, 2010)

sayurasem said:


> wow! thats some huge rocks! So the "Large" grain of akadama bag is all that big?


For the most part yes, there are some that are a little smaller, but they are all pretty big.


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

nilocg said:


> And my 40B emersed setup which is still recovering from leaving the top open over night.


Is that akadama emersed too?
I can't find any thread / picture with akadama substrate being emersed.


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## Nubster (Aug 9, 2011)

Here's my Akadama tank...


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