# ADA Aqua Soil common misconception



## co2

I have been using Aqua Soil Amazonia for about a month now. Except for sand when it's called for, I will never use any other substrate. It's growing plants really, really well already. It is also really easy to plant in, especially small stems like HC. It also doesn't scratch glass or acrylic. Awesome product.


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## Momotaro

There were quite a few well known hobbyists who were, and rather recently, chattering about how ADA substrates will break down over time. The talk was that the substrate would be "temporary" and would need to be changed out after a short time. 

Well, seems to me they are being proven wrong. I have seen nothing but positive results from people using ADA Aquasoil. Beautiful plants being grown in stable aquariums. The results just don't lie. As more and more hobbyists are finally giving the product a chance, I think we are going to get more and more positive reviews, and the product is going to be proved to be a long lasting substrate, just as Jeff mentioned. First hand experiences are opening eyes and minds.

The only regret I have about the 37G aquarium I recently set up is that I did not use the ADA Aquasoil and Powersand. I should have done the Aquasoil and the Powersand. Jay Luto tried to persuade me. Instead, I chose the Onyx Sand with the thought of that ADA substrate chatter in the back of my mind. Well, the aquarium is still relatively new with no fish to deal with....maybe I'll swap out the substrate and replace it with Powersand and Aquasoil.

If anyone is thinking about the ADA substrates, give them a try. I know I am not speaking with first hand experience about the Aquasoil and the Powersand(but I may someday :icon_wink ), I have not been disappointed with the other ADA products I have tried. 

Mike


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## trckrunrmike

I don't think its the mush issue that people talk about but rather the depletion of nutrients in AS.


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## ianiwane

the powersand does deplete in nutrients, but not the aquasoil itself. Its not a big deal because most of us are doing EI any way. Tom Barr said that the aquasoil actually has ammonia bound to the clay.


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## co2

I am a big fan of Aqua Soil, but the nutrients must wear out eventually. Even if it didn't have any nutrients it would still be a great substrate. You can break it down into powder if you squeeze it in between your fingers, so it's not as solid as say... EC, but I think that that is a good thing. That's why it won't scratch glass and is easy to plant in.

I chose to go without Powersand, I dose via the EI.


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## Ibn

Went with the PS along with the AS. Still dosing with EI at the same time and the growth and health of the plants are amazing. It's also allowing me to drop the pH below 6. :hihi:


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## IUnknown

Jeff, 
Can you post your experience using AS with pH controllers if you have. Wanted to know if anyone had been doing so successfully.


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## jsenske

Actually I have never used a pH controller before, so I have no experience with them.


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## co2

Eric is using AS with a pH controller successfully.


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## Ibn

Yup, using AS with PS and running it on the controller. Water is approximately pH 6.7 with a KH of 2 to start out with after a water change. Over the course of the week, the pH controller kicks in and dumps co2 into the tank. 

Used the pH controller to drop it to 6.2 and used the controller to drop it even further. I'm currently running the tank at pH 5.8 now with no harm to either the fish (altums, rummynoses, yellow tail congos, otos, dwarf crays, and various plecos) or plants.


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## plantbrain

jsenske said:


> I see some posts here and there sometimes that contain some misconceptions/uncertainties about ADA Aqua Soil. I have used it extensively and have learned some things about it.
> For the record:
> ADA Aqua Soil does not "break down over time and become a muddy mess". I don't know about the knock-offs, but rest assured Aqua Soil does not do this within any kind of normal time frame (3 years or so).
> The only time you get into that problem like that is when you use too much of the "powder" type. It is meant to be used only as a very thin layer on top of normal Aqua Soil, and even then it is really more for cosmetic purposes, so not really "necessary" from a growing standpoint.
> 
> The price for a 20lb. bag is very close to that of Fluorite and Eco-Complete, on average.


Jeff is correct here, he also has the best on line price for it!
It's clay, it will not "decompose", it also has more nutrient content than any other substrate out there.

I've poured it directly into tanks with water/fish without issue, better if you can drain it, I have some of the finer grain stuff, I'm not into the capping methods..........I don't think that helps, but the fine grain stuff is nice for tiny tanks.

The clay can get broken in to small pieces over time, but that will take several years I'd imagine and uprooting/growth out tanks etc.

The nutrients will run out........many things play into this one. Still, NH4 is the only cation of nitrogen that can be bound by a CEC, so negative anions, NO3 etc will not be bound.

The NH4 is occluded, basically sanwiched between layers of clay and the cations.

Roots and fungi tap into the grains. The outter surfaces of the clay grains are oxidized by bacteria to NO3. The other source is organic nitrogen that breaks down slowly into NH4(A dead fish, dead plant leaves etc will do this also).

Low levels of NH4 in such a substrate works well.
Some plants likely have a clear preference to the forms of N, most don't. 

At least one whiner about the use of a pH controller claims you cannot use them, but the indirect method I spoke about some years ago for using peat + CO2 deterimnation shows it can be done as Ibn is doing here locally in the SF bay.

Like Jeff, I never use the pH controllers these days but many do and I've used them in the past.

I have to disagree with their use in general.
Bad for fish to have high CO2 24/7.
I can add more CO2 for a few hours in conjunction with high O2 instead. 
Better place for your fish, the pH is not the issue so much.
More room for error should anything go wrong etc.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Momotaro

I am seriously considering the making the switch in the 37G. Particularly after reading through this thread more.

The Onyx has raised my KH from 9 to 16. I did expect a bit of a jump, but nothing like this. I am having a tough time keeping CO2 at levels well enough to stave of BBA. 

I am thinking the Aquasoil and Powersand is going to work in my favor by not playing havoc with KH and actually lowering pH a bit.

Any possibility, Jeff?

Mike


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## brad

I'm assuming it's effects on ph are also time limited right?


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## mrbelvedere

Isn't a main ingredient in Aquasoil peat? Shouldn't it by definition break down over time? Momotaro, I didn't know you had a 37. I love that tank design. We should form a 37 pimp club.


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## ianiwane

The main ingredient in AS is not peat its clay. I believe there is peat in the powersand. Is that what you are refering to? Aquasoil will lower your KH. I believe IBN (Eric) has said out of tap his KH is 9 and the aquasoil/powersand lowers it to about 2. Correct me if I am wrong Eric. With that being said lowering the KH is not a problem. Plants will love it and your fish will do fine in a KH of 2.


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## Betowess

Boy, this sounds like the opposite of some recent Ecocomplete I used in a Q. Tank. Brand new stuff and the water was a solid 6.6ph when I put it in there. One week later it was at 8.1ph when I got around to checking. That with a brand new probe on a pHep4. Tossed it all out in the back yard. I'm done with Caribsea.


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## ianiwane

The solution in eco raises the KH/GH in you tank initially. After a few water changes it stops doing that. You should have given it more time, it would have leveled out.


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## jsenske

brad said:


> I'm assuming it's effects on ph are also time limited right?


What I find is that pH lower somewhat over time naturally in a my tanks. So, any gradual change in the pH lowering effects seem to be offset by a natural lowering of the pH from the maturation of the tank. It's that immediate effect of lower pH, though, that helps get the plants settle in and take off faster-- right away they are in great and preferred conditions. 
Start-up had always been the the most perilous time for me. So the advantage of having the the substrate contribute to the initial stability/establishment of desired parameters for most plants is a really helpful thing.


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## plantbrain

mrbelvedere138 said:


> Isn't a main ingredient in Aquasoil peat? Shouldn't it by definition break down over time? Momotaro, I didn't know you had a 37. I love that tank design. We should form a 37 pimp club.


No, it's clay, I get get specific about the type of clay, but it'll hold little meaning to folks here.

There are some humics in it, but not large peat fragments.
You can add a little peat to the bottom if you desire the effects more.

People have whined and suggested the pH/KH issue is an issue.
I have not found any basis for this claim.
Neither has Jeff, nor others that have used it. 

Some folks obsess wayyyyyy tooooo much about their measurements and then think they must do something about it......

Relax.......look at your plants/fish etc.

CO2 is easy to measure by an indirect method if you must use a pH controller etc.

I've been mainly eye balling CO2, I'll use a ruler to get close, say the water is a KH 2 in the tank, the tap is 5.
I'll do a big water change, say 80% and then measure the KH difference between the tank asap and the tap.

It's geneally real close.

So the tank is at a KH of 5.
Go to the chart.

Dail in about 6.6-6.7 pH.
Observe, then add a bit more CO2.

From here on, the pH and KH will start to move right?

That's okay..........why?
Because the rate of CO2 that you are adding is the same and the plant's use of CO2/uptake etc is still the same.

All you have lost is the temp way to measure CO2.
But the rate of CO2 being added is still the same as is the uptake.

That does not change...........

We eventually add nutrients/CO2 etc to get the results with bthe plants we desire, not to target "some number".

While I test a fair amount, the limitations of testing to achieve a certain asethetic is quite another matter.

Generally we want the tank to look nice, to that end, ADA soil is excellent.
If testing is your gig, hobby, passion, inert substrates with no nutrient content, no binding potential/ no CEC, no organic matter, frequently cleans etc is what you'll want.

I did this with RFUG's and plain sand for about 10 years with plants.

All my tanks are now ADA soil tanks.
I've switched 2 of the non CO2 tanks over as well.
I'm curious to see how they do.


Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Betowess

ianiwane said:


> The solution in eco raises the KH/GH in you tank initially. After a few water changes it stops doing that. You should have given it more time, it would have leveled out.



Well, I have experienced 180 lbs of corrupted Eco with a raised GH, KH, & pH Which stayed off the charts for many months, and this was before the phosphate buffer "cure" which was also recalled. The Eco I threw out was part of a replacement batch Caribsea sent me. I don't trust the company anymore. I'll try the AS or possibly Florabase substrate next. Or revert to plain gravel and some root tabs or Flourite again. But I'm done with Ecocomplete.


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## Ibn

That's correct there, Ian. KH out of the tap is quite high and once it's in the tank, it drops considerably. Also, I used to change the water twice a week and at each testing observed the same effects.


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## coco9465

What is ADA and where to buy this ADA stuff?

It will better if some of you experienced aquascapers give more details (or links) about ADA, so a newbie like me can understand "what? where?"


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## epicfish

ADA = Aqua Design Amano.

Use search at the top and put in ADA. You'll come across a hundred or so threads on it.

It's a line of aquarium products....their most popular product is probably their AquaSoil.

Oh, and you posted in a thread that's over a year old.


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## tazcrash69

As far as where to buy, if you can't find it locally (only seen it local 1 time myself). 
Try Jeff at ADG. Drop him a line, very nice guy, very helpful.


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## garuf

ive heard alot about ada ive spent many an evening on here but i realy cant justify the cost when tropica is half the price for 3times as much. which system is the best without all the ada hype.
whos tried tropica? is it as good as ada?


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## eklikewhoa

I keep trying to tell everyone that the price is not crazy expensive compared to other substrates and there was one that Aquasoil was actually cheaper then....


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## garuf

mmm i guess but its still expencive here in the uk anyway to do it properly for a 10gall like mine would cost £40 where as the tropica does 3 ten gall tanks and its £17 in comparison i understand its good but you know i just cant help thinking its all hype, think apple ipod theyre good put your paying for a lifestyle/fashion. sorry if this offends anyone but its hard not to see it that way.


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## ianiwane

Then don't get it. I don't think people care what you decide to get. You are the one that is going to use it.


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## Jason Baliban

There are products from ADA that are completely a rip off, and there are things that are absolutely amazing.

AS is one that is amazing.

jB


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## plantbrain

Jason Baliban said:


> There are products from ADA that are completely a rip off, and there are things that are absolutely amazing.
> 
> AS is one that is amazing.
> 
> jB


I agree as well and Ian and most folks would say the same having used a number of sediments.

Perhaps the entire line is lifestyle choice etc, however, one good product that works well and is reasonable vs the other products is not a bad option by any means.

If you honestly believe soil, you ought to be using plain sand, soil and kitty litter.

Kitty litter is Clay, peat is also cheap.

Both have long histories of use.
I've used all of these and about 2 dozen other concoctions. ADA AS is pretty good for the $ and does very well for growing plants.
That's what I use for my personal tanks if that gives you any indication and I can afford pretty much anything I want and can make.

If you are cheap, you may as well go all the way and use plain sand and soil/Kitty litter.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## milesm

tom,

i take exception to your reply. seems pretty arrogant and haughty, but that's your style. your response that "...I can afford pretty much anything I want..." though, is over the top. not all of us are in the same financial situation. not all of us share the same level of passion that you and others hold for the hobby. not all of us are willing to put as much money and time (a much more precious resource to me) as you do.

you've said many a time, the first question one must ask oneself is what does one want to get out of a planted tank? 

i am very satisfied with my plain sand/turface substrate and ei methodology. i don't need to try the more demanding plants like tonina. i don't feel the need to rip out my newly established glosso lawn, and replace it with hc. would i like to? yeah, sure, why not. would i want to devote the TIME and money to do so? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

AS is $50 for a 9l bag--good enough for one 20 gal tank--bought either online or at a lfs. my way would cost ten times less. is AS 10 times better? 

i guess a better question would be, am i "cheap"?


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## sayn3ver

milesm,

Last time i bought AS, it was 26$ for a 9L bag...which covered as much as i'd say 2 eco-complete bags. 

Secondly, i think Tom meant that even though he has the finacials to purchase any substrate or make any, he prefers the AS(which is cheaper than other "aquarium soils") per volume.

Granted i find that my AS breaks down alittle, i've gotten decent growth for my first tank. At the same time i just set up a 15g out on my deck(naturally lit, outside, with just a small circulation pump) with peat moss and soilmaster select and am getting amazing growth from my low maintence plants out there.

I already purchased through a group buy additional AS bags for my next tank cause it ended up being cheaper than almost all the other aquairum products(not cheaper than SMS, dirt, sand, etc). I like both though and I'd probably recommend SMS or equivilant if dosing ferts since you get good bang for buck and they age well IMSE (in my short experience).

Use what you like. I like trying everything before making up my mind cause personal experience is worth it now in the day of the interweb forum(granted they can definetly help steer you in a good direction).


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## justinq

For what it's worth, I have been using Aquasoil Amazonia with a layer of Power Sand for the last eight months and am very impressed with it. In my experience, it isn't true that it doesn't cloud tank water, but that seems typical of most planted tank substrates. I wouldn't recommend rinsing it, though. I personally haven't had any problems with it breaking down at all. My only issue with the substrate is that when I did my first water change before I had any foreground plants grown in, the PS ended up rising to the top of the AS due to the substrate being disturbed. Since then, I've had pieces of PS on the the surface in my foreground, which initially bothered me a lot, but isn't much of a problem now that it's covered with plants. And no, simply pushing the PS back down into the substrate was not effective, so I gave up on "fixing" it. It doesn't seem to have negatively effected that area of the tank's ability to grow plants, though, and I could have avoided the problem had I realized beforehand how easy it was to disturb the AS when there are no plants anchoring it down.


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## jsenske

When I get a little Power Sand up top I remove it with a spoon-- just scoop it out, takes about 3 minutes.


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## plantbrain

milesm said:


> tom,
> 
> i take exception to your reply. seems pretty arrogant and haughty, but that's your style.


And yours is extremely personal and off topic.
You don't know me personally so do not pretend to:icon_wink 



> your response that "...I can afford pretty much anything I want..." though, is over the top.


It is?
The difference in cost between ADA AS and say Flourite or Eco complete are small. I can afford these for my tanks. Let's take my comment in the context from which is was taken now shall we?
Why you chose to pull up some personal insult garbage is really beyond me.

Many folks can and do afford these, does that make every one of those folks who do not, poor and second class? Get real.

Stick to plants and attack ideas, not folks.

The topic is and was ADA AS.
The context was specific about the other brands.
I also made mention of other cheaper options if you chose for whatever reason, cost, DIYer, want to do something different etc. Such choices are hardly made based upon economic consideration alone.

Aquarists can be cheap, but still very able to afford luxury items, say like the aquariums themselves. We chose to afford those and some might view us as haughty or arrogant also. But that's your style, attack a person personally and twist it to meet your own perception about me.

Nice. 



> not all of us are in the same financial situation.


Nor is Juan in the streets of Mexico who cannot even afford a tortillia every day. How do you think they feel? They might consider you an arrogant snotty American also. I've lived places like that, my family was on welfare and food stamps, I've been homeless for a few weeks. Life can suck. So what? 

Does not mean I look down upon the homeless, the unlucky nor the rich. Only myself.

I still fail to see your point of argument, this about the difference between 26$ per bag for commericial substrates vs 24$ for the same for Flourite, vs 30$ for Eco complete. If someone wants to go plain sand, they can do that.

I've even stated all this.

Instead, you chose to expess your own personal issue, perhaps you are very insecure about affording things perhaps? That's your deal, do not let that spill over into the hobby. I help folks no matter what their finanical means.
Simply because I can afford any brand of substrate hardly makes me "rich", wealthy or beyond the means of many on this list.

Why you make such assumptions really reflects far more upon you.



> not all of us share the same level of passion that you and others hold for the hobby. not all of us are willing to put as much money and time (a much more precious resource to me) as you do.


I guess you should go bash Amano, Jeff Senske or Karen Randall, heck Kyle, our administrator here or anyone else that has different priorities than yourself? I've never stated that you should have these same levels of passion, nor spend this much time, nor $. I will say you can if you want, you have the means if you wish. But that choice is really up to you. 
I was homeless, I worked and got a ahead in the game of life and now have options.

You got some issues it seems, and for whatever reason, they decided to come spilling out here. However, it's not the topic of this thread:icon_idea 



> you've said many a time, the first question one must ask oneself is what does one want to get out of a planted tank?
> 
> i am very satisfied with my plain sand/turface substrate and ei methodology.


And I did suggest plain sand, Soil, SMS and have compared these to ADA AS.
I used DIY for a decade before going to Gas CO2, because I was "cheap". I could and can afford many things, but *what I chose in another issue.*
That's more a *personal choice and less a financial one*. I can say I cannot afford an aquarium and sink all my money into providing support for a business, or family. Most folks in the hobby are in this senario.

But a 5$ either way is not going to make or break me, nor most aquarists for a bag of sediment. If they feel it is, then there is sand. I made that pretty clear. I can afford either and why this is an issue for it really pointless other than a personal insecurity based on your own preception about someone you know next to nothing about. This is not about buying a car or house, this about a 5$ difference in cost for a luxury item none us "need". 



> i don't need to try the more demanding plants like tonina. i don't feel the need to rip out my newly established glosso lawn, and replace it with hc. would i like to? yeah, sure, why not. would i want to devote the TIME and money to do so? ABSOLUTELY NOT.


That's fine and you get no argument from me here.
Those are choices however.

Neither you, nor I nor Amano need aquatic plant tanks.
They are luxury items we chose to have and we chose to allocate finanaical resources to them.

Some trade offs might be worthwhie for you(like planted tank ownership and upkeep), while a higher tech Tonia tank might not be. I certainly have no issues with those trade offs, just your assumptions about myself and how you took it way out of context.



> AS is $50 for a 9l bag--good enough for one 20 gal tank--bought either online or at a lfs. my way would cost ten times less. is AS 10 times better?
> 
> i guess a better question would be, am i "cheap"?


That's a question you have to personally answer. I'm cheap :tongue: 
But I'm willing to pay more for things I think are worth the trade off such as ADA AS. Do I need the nice ADA filters?
No, I'll never buy one even if I had the $ likely.
Can I afford one? Yes.
But I cannot justify the trade off between cost and what I get in return.
50$ a bag?

It's 39.99$ a bag at the LFS here and Jeff sell it's 26$ a bag on line, Flourite goes for 13$ a bag or so, EC about 15$.

Since these are all web prices, they are comparable.
Man folks use these sediments for planted tanks.
Merely because you cannot justify the trade offs and we chose to afford these and the $ to do does not make us haughty nor arrogant.

Can I afford a planted tank? Yes.
Would I say everyone is cheap merely because they do not run out and buy ADA AS?

Never said that. 
I gave options and I discuss trade offs.
You can afford the aquarium which is a choice and a luxury item, you apparently can afford that as well.

Some suggested it cost too much. No more than other commericial brands.
Others have long argued for plain sand.
It can be done certainly.

Perhaps the trade off is not worth it to you, you like sand.
It's all I used for 20 years myself.
I had no options back then. I could not justify the trade offs when Flourite came out either. Nor ADA AS. But I tried it and found I liked it and like using it in my tanks. It became worth the trade off.

Simply because someone has another passion, or is more passionate about something and makes different choices than you does not imply they at fault or better/worse than you.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## tropicalfish

What's the difference between the Amazonia, Malaya, and Africana?


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## MrJP

Now now guys...let's play nice. There is really no need for all this, especially since it can lead to even more misunderstandings!

The bottom line is that when setting up a planted tank, you choose wether you want to use sand/regular gravel or a specialized substrate. The first option is hands down the least expensive considering a 50lbs bag of sand will cost you about $10.

If you choose to go the other route there is no doubt you will get better results but it will also cost you more. But how much? Well its simple...

I have a standard 90g with a 18x48 footprint that i will use as an example. It seems everyone agrees that your primary choices would either be Flourite, eco-complete or ADA AS. Here is the basic cost breakdown for my tank at an average dept of 3' (according to substrate calculator at top of page and adgshop.com/Dr F&S prices):

*- Flourite*
I would need 90lbs or 6 bags @ $19/each. Total = $114 + shipping

*- Eco-complete*
I would need 144lbs or 7 bags @ $22/each. Total = $154 + shipping

*- ADA AS*
I woud need 36L or 4 bags @ $26/each. Total = $104 + $34 shipping = $138

I could not figure out the shipping cost for the first 2 options but some of you can get it locally - so no shipping. Still, it turns out AS is not as expensive as it first seemed! Now this may turn out differently depending on the size of your tank but it will nonetheless give you a good idea on how to proceed.

The funny thing about all this is that I have 100lbs of sand in my tank for $20. Sure it works, but things could be better. Now I want to switch to a more specialised substrate. So initially going with the sand to save some cash will end up costing me more...about 20 bucks more or so! 

JP


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## nielsamd

tropicalfish said:


> What's the difference between the Amazonia, Malaya, and Africana?



Good question. I just bought some African because it was the only one the retailer had in the 3 litre size. Apart from colour the descriptions are the same.


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## ianiwane

Malaya and Africana do not have as much nutrients as the Amazonia. Also they will not soften water as much as the Amazonia. For these two reasons people normally choose Amazonia over the other two.


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## eklikewhoa

......the color is different too.


malayan is a tannish color, africana a more red clay looking and amazonia dark brown/black.


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## ianiwane

eklikewhoa said:


> ......the color is different too.
> 
> 
> malayan is a tannish color, africana a more red clay looking and amazonia dark brown/black.


But that is pretty obvious. I was stating a point that was not so obvious.


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## plantbrain

ianiwane said:


> But that is pretty obvious. I was stating a point that was not so obvious.


But do they taste as good as they look? :tongue: 

I have a dozen soil samples of delta sediments I need processed for NO3, NH4, CEC, pH, Fe and some other parameters.

If someone has some Malaya, or Africana, they'd be interested in sending me say 500mls or so worth, I can give you the analysis. 

I'll be doing about 6 sediment types, so adding one or two more will not hurt.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## rharlow

I would like to go with AS but am having a hard time justifying the cost. It's actually the shipping (here to Maine) that causes the price to jump. Has anyone done any mixing with Flourite and AS? Thanks

Chip


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## Momotaro

> Has anyone done any mixing with Flourite and AS?


Not saying it can't be done, but I wouldn't.

The Aqua Soil is a soft material, and the Flourite is a hard material that has had a tendency to compact in my "Flourite only" aquarium. I would imagine the mixing of the two would create a mess over time.

I can't see it looking good either.

Go with one or the other, I think you will be happier in the long run.


Mike


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## jazzlvr123

thanks everyone for your thoughts on this topic i just wanted to say i learned a lot from reading this. not only about the characteristics of ADA AS but also that tom was homeless at one point and worked his way to the top. lol I would have never guessed.


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## lescarpentier

plantbrain said:


> If someone has some Malaya, or Africana, they'd be interested in sending me say 500mls or so worth, I can give you the analysis.
> I'll be doing about 6 sediment types, so adding one or two more will not hurt.
> Regards,
> Tom Barr


Did you ever make this analysis?


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## reddragon1977

still waiting for more on this one!!!!! once you put aside the bitterness there is more infomation in this thread that the rest of the substrate forum:thumbsup:


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## Homer_Simpson

lescarpentier said:


> Did you ever make this analysis?


Yes, he did.

From what I understand: Aquasoil performed as well as lake sediment and not as well as a combination of garden variety potting soil and sand. Of the 6substrates he studied, ADA AS Amazonia ranked 5th overall.

He found that enriched substrates outperformed inert substrates, but he did mention that a better test would have been to test Aquasoil with minimal water column dosing.

Tom acknowledged that while the ADA AS came in 5th it was under more controlled conditions with zero water column fertilization and much harder water. He still recommends AS+EI(lean or othewise) as being the best combo and not as messy as soil.


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## dantra

Homer_Simpson said:


> Yes, he did.
> 
> From what I understand: Aquasoil performed as well as lake sediment and not as well as a combination of garden variety potting soil and sand. Of the 6substrates he studied, ADA AS Amazonia ranked 5th overall.
> 
> He found that enriched substrates outperformed inert substrates, but he did mention that a better test would have been to test Aquasoil with minimal water column dosing.
> 
> Tom acknowledged that while the ADA AS came in 5th it was under more controlled conditions with zero water column fertilization and much harder water. He still recommends AS+EI(lean or othewise) as being the best combo and not as messy as soil.


Homer_Simpson is correct, Tom finished the experiment. The conclusion can be found on his site. It made for some interesting reading.


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## plantbrain

I finished one, however, I'm just starting another more detailed component test.
the break down of the available PO4, NO3, NH4 fractions as well as CEC, OM, Fe for ADA AS and powersand.

It's quite different than the growth rates over 8 weeks of Eurasian milfoil.
Few folks grow that, but it's a good model weed to use if you had to pick one.

It will be sometime later next month when I get that back.
I'm measuring the Yolo loam along with delta clay's, all class 1 Agricultural Soils.
This will answer what is in the ADA AS precisely.

I already did this for the ADA liquid ferts BTW.


Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## lescarpentier

All of you,thanks for responding!!


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## Clare12345

Hi. I am planning to get Aqua Soil Amazonia to grow HC, but with my setup I don't want to use any sand on top of the soil. Should I go with Amazonia ll? I heard that is less cloudy, as was a problem with the first one. Will Amazonia ll cause problems with algae in my tank if it is not covered with sand? 
Thank you,
Clare


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## frozenbarb

Aqua Soil doesn't need to be covered in sand.
I and II will both leech a big amount of ammonia at first. Which is gonna cause algae unless you start off with a big amount of plant.
Overall people say Aqua Soil Amazonia I is better.


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## Clare12345

I have read 1 or 2 posts saying Amazonia ll is better. Why do you think Amazonia l is better? What is the difference?


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## Left C

Over at APC is a thread by jsenske in the sponsor forum Aquarium Design Group that discusses the difference between I and II. Jeff isn't getting anymore II in because of its problems. http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/showthread.php?t=51581


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## frozenbarb

LOL, Left C beat me too it, While I was still searching at APC
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/showthread.php?t=51581


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## Left C

This is my fastest ninja post.


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## Tvadna

milesm said:


> tom,
> 
> i take exception to your reply. seems pretty arrogant and haughty, but that's your style. your response that "...I can afford pretty much anything I want..." though, is over the top. not all of us are in the same financial situation. not all of us share the same level of passion that you and others hold for the hobby. not all of us are willing to put as much money and time (a much more precious resource to me) as you do.
> 
> you've said many a time, the first question one must ask oneself is what does one want to get out of a planted tank?
> 
> i am very satisfied with my plain sand/turface substrate and ei methodology. i don't need to try the more demanding plants like tonina. i don't feel the need to rip out my newly established glosso lawn, and replace it with hc. would i like to? yeah, sure, why not. would i want to devote the TIME and money to do so? ABSOLUTELY NOT.
> 
> AS is $50 for a 9l bag--good enough for one 20 gal tank--bought either online or at a lfs. my way would cost ten times less. is AS 10 times better?
> 
> i guess a better question would be, am i "cheap"?


I know this is a fairly old threat but I think some are confusing knowledge and experience with arrogance. 

I appreciate the science and chemistry of substrate comparisons but sometimes it can be a bit much. I enjoy the simplicity of the comment Tom made. Taking cost out of the equation, he made it very clear that AS is his preferred substrate. He then factored in price, even providing a cost effective way to obtain AS and justified the use of it even further by comparing it to other available products. He may have applied cost to his situation but I don't understand why anyone would offense to that.

When considering his tanks, experience, work in the hobby and respect he garners; this is valuable and concise information. 

Over the years, I have also used numerous substrates in different tanks. I'm fairly new to AquaSoil but so far the results are promising. I've never had foreground plants spread so quickly in anything else. It is quickly becoming my top choice over dirt. The availability and cost kept me away for a while but if I were to do it over or set up a new tank, I would use AS. Part of me wishes I would have read this thread a few years earlier since I cringe at the idea of breaking down an established tank to replace substrate. haha


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