# 10 Gallon Low Tech Rock Scape-RCS Tank-Update 7-10-10



## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Specs:
-Marina 10 Gallon Tank (top is rimless out the box)
-Zoo Med 501 Canister Filter
-Ebay Lily Pipes (broke inlet so zoo med intake for now)
-Tetra Heater in PVC Piping Inline
-DIY Clip on CFL light-23 Wattx2


Plants
-HC

Fish
-5 Red Cherry Shrimp

Pics:


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Some inhabitant shots:









































And here is it in my room with the new tank I just setup yesterday (dry start)


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## !shadow! (Jan 25, 2010)

not bad for a start man, what type of camera are you using by the way?


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

The camera is a borrowed Panasonic DMC-LZ7. It is just a point and shoot. I couldn't get it to take anything at first but found a setting where you could pick a spot and adjust the white balance (which is different from the auto white balance). That was the only way I could get decent pics, I don't really like the camera but don't own one so what can I do lol.


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 4, 2008)

I like the wood in the dry start tank.

2x 23W bulbs over a 10g is quite a bit of light; I think you may have algal problems if you don't raise your lights up a bit.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

I have had this setup on my old tank and never had issues. It has been up for only a week but zero algae. That is one reason I did make my lights adjustable though. 

Thanks about the wood. I am not sure I am going to use it. I found it hiking in the Berkeley hills awhile ago.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Great start man. If you need more manzies, lemme know since it seems like your a Bay Area local.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

speedie408 said:


> Great start man. If you need more manzies, lemme know since it seems like your a Bay Area local.


 Thanks man. I really just have that for a visual of what I want try to do while dry starting. I have found you can get alot of mananita at the SF flower market which my GF lives a block away from. Most to big for my tank but I could cut it down. Love all your tanks btw.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Ok, update time....One of my RCS was pregnant before I got her and didn't drop her eggs through the acclimation process, etc. I found her on the floor and got really sad since it would be the first time I had anything in my aquarium reproduce. Today I noticed that another female was carrying eggs. I got happy. Then I noticed a baby shrimp and another, and another. It seems the female that jumped had her babies before doing so. Very happy.

I tried to take pics but couldn't get any so I took a FS shot. There is an algae waffer in the middle. It is filling in faster than I thought actually but still slowish. The glass is dirty so the pic isn't great.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Well, the babies are now big enough to take pictures of. I don't know how many I have, but it's alot. I also have 2 more pregnant shrimp. I may have a little factory going here.

Baby









Size comparison (and these grew almost 2x there size in a few days)









I am having trouble getting some full tank shots due to no background. I have some GDA which is actually welcomed right now but I have raised my lights. My photoperiod is really long and will be reduced when I want the GDA to go away. As long as I don't get other algae, this is fine as it is pretty easy to get rid of in my expreience.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

OK, I tried to get a good FS shot but couldn't. I tried to edit it and went to far but it gives you a decent idea (I never edit pictures of my tank before so I had no idea what I was doing)










Even though it is filling in slowish, I would say the growth is good. I think it will fill the rest in in the middle pretty quick. I will need to add some more HC to the sides if I want that to really start to grow out quickly, I might, I am in no rush.

Oh, I also stupidly broke my intake lilly pipe so I am pissed about that. I don't know when I will get a new one, it isn't a priority.


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## Voozle (Mar 22, 2009)

I didn't realize an _iwagumi_ layout could be done low tech, this should be fun to watch. It looks good so far. I would suggest a background, as I find the shutters distracting from the aquascape, but that may just be me.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Voozle said:


> I didn't realize an _iwagumi_ layout could be done low tech, this should be fun to watch. It looks good so far. I would suggest a background, as I find the shutters distracting from the aquascape, but that may just be me.


I don't concider it a true Iwagumi layout as I really only used the "rules" as a guideline. I also only have HC now but who knows, I may throw in stems or whatever. I just will do what I feel like.

I have done a few low tech scapes but never took pictures. I find a 10 gallon does great with a incandecent hood, using 2 13watt 6500k GE bulbs. You can grow "high light" plants with good color, it is just really slow. If you run into algae problems (I have yet to have more than GDA), you just shorten the photo period to 5-6 hours and in a few days it is gone. Works every time for me and when I want to get rid of my GDA, I will do the same.

Many people think HC needs CO2 and high light. I have no trouble with this. The HC that is in there has been grown under less light for almost a year and a half. Does fine, almost no ferts (like 2x a year). I use excel for faster growth but don't do it regularly. 

Low tech is awsome for sure. I love my high tech 29 but it is like 10x more work. It is more fun to experiment though because things grow back qucikly and you can make things do what they shouldn't. I have some sunset hygro I dont know what to do with so I put it in there. It isn't making a true carpet that is attractive but it is basically carpeting my substrate.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Oh, and the reason I don't have a background yet is I plan to use window tint for cars. I have a problem in the fact that I only have about .5in where the window sill is. I just need to find a day where I have a ton of patience. 

I am also thinking a gradient background with a timed light would be cool, I am pretty limited with room but may try to go that route with a small PC/T5 bulb or LED's. I also want to add led moonlights at some point as well, just haven't had time.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Ok, it's been a bit over a month. This tank is doing SO well. It is basically on auto pilot. I do a 10% water change every time I need to water my plants. I dose excel when I remember but that is like once or twice a week. No algae except for a bit on the rocks which I actually like. Pearling with no co2. I guess sometimes things just work. I am loving low tech.

I have a bunch of shirmp now too. I have had 3 females breed. 

Anyway, I am happy, sorry for the lack of updates.


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## AlexXx (Dec 1, 2009)

that is some SERIOUSLY green HC, man im jealous! I love the simplicity of this tank and the minimalist approach. Few rocks, one plant type and an attractive shrimp selection with nearly no workload, great. I have a 2.5 gallon dry starting with this same approach, but with UG, a few rocks like yours and ill probably put in some cherries as well from my 10 gallon if i ever get some breeding done! I wish some of the females would get berried already! ERRR

Any way, i LOVE your tank!


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## pianofish (Jan 31, 2010)

Great carpet, and nice rock placement! Have you had many problems with algae?
Your pal,


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Thanks everyone. I kind of have to laugh when i hear that HC needs co2 and high light, it has grown well for me under much less light than this with no co2. It can get leggy, you trim and train it.



pianofish said:


> Great carpet, and nice rock placement! Have you had many problems with algae?
> Your pal,


I have had basically zero problems with algae, outside of GDA on the rocks which I actually like a lot. Honestly, not a single issue since I started. It got to be too much on the rocks so I reduced my photoperiod from 13 hours to about 7, it is just how I like now.

It is suprisingly balanced.


I am thinking about throwing some stems in. What do you guys think?


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## AlexXx (Dec 1, 2009)

man now i really want to do a HC carpet lol....


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

AlexXx said:


> man now i really want to do a HC carpet lol....


I really wanted to do a UG carpet so we are even  I bought a 1/4 of a dime sized amount for $10 and it didn't survive so I got over that plant, HC has always worked for me.


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## becks17 (Dec 21, 2009)

Wow those rocks are mammoth, love it. That HC carpet is equally as stunning!


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## !shadow! (Jan 25, 2010)

my favorite picture so far 










The only thing l could comment on is the two big rocks. my eyes keep looking back and forth at each one deciding which one to be the focal point but other than that it's looking great.


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## luke20037 (Jan 24, 2010)

looking really great man, the hc has really filled out, I'm going to be starting an iguami style shrimp tank soon and didnt realise it could be done low tech!


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## chris.rivera3 (Apr 15, 2008)

i love the HC growth...can you post some pictures of the DIY clip on lamp??? i'm trying to create my own but yours looks pretty nice!!!


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## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

That looks great.

I've always loved HC carpets, but I've never had the patience to plant it (trust me, I've tried). I always get distracted by the paint drying on the walls.


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## ryndisher (Jun 1, 2010)

Love the look of the tank and how simple it looks.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Well, it grew in well, unfortunately I pulled up some HC while trimming. The stems were not planted, they must have been roots in the substrate that somehow lived through pulling up my last tank and rinsing. There are more plants behind the rock, pretty cool but they will go.

New pics:

































This has been the easiest tank I have ever dealt with and the shrimp breed like crazy. My design could have been better but I love it too much to start something new ATM


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## skbensin (Sep 4, 2009)

Great work, I really am jealous. Makes me want to start up a little 10g of my own.


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## g33tar (Jan 8, 2010)

Man those shrimp are takin the joint over. Nice work


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

What an inspiration!!roud: This is the first low tech tank that I have seen with such growth. Everyone keeps saying you need Co2 to have good growth. I don't want to fool with it for I have very low Gh. 

I think Wisteria would look great in there.


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## Damian (Jun 17, 2009)

Looking sexy. I've been faring well with UG but for the life of me I cant do HC. Maybe I am impatient. Regardless the tank is awesome. Low Tech at that. Good job.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Dream2MkBlve said:


> Looking sexy. I've been faring well with UG but for the life of me I cant do HC. Maybe I am impatient. Regardless the tank is awesome. Low Tech at that. Good job.


Thanks. It took awhile to fill in but not as long as you would think. I have had the HC for years now and this has been in low light, no co2 for a while. I don't know if it has "adapted" over the years. I will say that when I transferred it originally from my high light/co2 tank, it didn't do to well at first but did recover. 

The tank also gets some sunlight so I don't really know how much light it gets. I will say that I have not seen a single speck of algae for the life of the tank, even though the tank next to it with lower light has algae issues (was accidentally introduced when I bought plants). It's just a lot of luck.

Thanks, sorry for the long post, I have been typing all day lol.


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## goot776 (May 10, 2010)

Do you think the ~60 watts accounts for the HC growth? I'm planning a low tech soon, and I'm going back and forth between HC (now that I've seen you do it) or fissidens fontanus.

After reading the Amano Lighting study, it looks like your tank falls right in line with the amount of light Amano would use, which is way above what anybody would use following the WPG rule of thumb.

Two 23-watt CFLs are marketed as almost 200 watts of light -- that's really bright!


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

goot776 said:


> Do you think the ~60 watts accounts for the HC growth? I'm planning a low tech soon, and I'm going back and forth between HC (now that I've seen you do it) or fissidens fontanus.
> 
> After reading the Amano Lighting study, it looks like your tank falls right in line with the amount of light Amano would use, which is way above what anybody would use following the WPG rule of thumb.
> 
> Two 23-watt CFLs are marketed as almost 200 watts of light -- that's really bright!


First off, CFL's are pretty much the wattage they actually are if going by watts per gallon as you are comparing them to a T-8 florescent bulb, not an incandescent bulb. So it is no where near equivalent to 200 watts of florescent light. A member on the board, Hoppy did some tests with a par meter and found that they actually put out less light than their _real_ wattage compared to a T-8 tube. So it is probably pretty close to a 40 watt florecent fixtures, about 2 wpg.

Secondly, I have the lights raised. My other 10 gallon with 10 watt x2 CFL's had a bit of algae before. I set it up again and it has a ton but that was introduced accidentally from some plants. 

Photo period is important as well. You can run way more light on a 4-5 hour photo period than if you were going to do 8-10, which I prefer as I work at home.


I really don't think HC needs high light. I will tell you it is fragile coming straight from the store as it is probably pond grown. It doesn't transistion well from CO2 to non-CO2 either. If you dry start or let it adapt, you should be fine. I recommend dry starting as it is a pain to plant, even if it is just to let it root, you don't have to wait for it to spread. Then fill your tank up a bit each day, rather than all at once. It has worked for me this way in very low light. I had 16 watts total of CFL and it grew fine, just very slowly and this was without any CO2.

Long post. I would just say I got lucky on this tank and found the balance of light vs. photo period vs. plant growth vs. animals that eat algae. I wouldn't chalk how easy this tank is to knowing what I am doing, though I had a good idea that it would work and I could adjust the light up another 8 inches if I had to.


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## goot776 (May 10, 2010)

Cool, thanks for the explanation.

If I started dry, how many weeks would I need to establish HC in a tank? I wish I could find a seller who grows their HC stock without CO2. That would make things so much easier.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

goot776 said:


> Cool, thanks for the explanation.
> 
> If I started dry, how many weeks would I need to establish HC in a tank? I wish I could find a seller who grows their HC stock without CO2. That would make things so much easier.


For dry start, CO2 isn't an issue as it will adapt from sumersed to emered, then back when you fill the tank. I have been very successful when adding 1/4 an inch of water per day when I feel it is ready, maybe less. Once it is a few inches under, just fill it. That shouldn't tank more than a week.

I think 2-3 weeks is fine dry starting if you are not trying to take advantage of growth. I would suggest planting deep if you plan to fill sooner as this ensures little will come up. I have done a few tanks with HC and I am usually using trimming and just drop them all over the place. In this case, double that time.

PM me if you would like some HC out of this tank. I got some just floating off the top and part could use a trim. I don't know how much I will have, probably about a golf ball size or more. That would be about what I started with on a few 10 gallon scapes and it grew in pretty quick. I need some small leafed plants, green prefered but any color works if you got some, or paypal me shipping ($7 will work).


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## fcastro16 (Sep 9, 2008)

What substrate did you use?


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

A mixture of Flourish Black and Flourish Black Sand. Either will work, no reason to buy both. Pick whatever is available and which you like best. The sand is hard to find around here lately.


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## gregpxc (Jul 19, 2010)

updates?


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

gregpxc said:


> updates?


Unfortunately this tank is done. I may be doing another rock scape with something like HC, I don't know what it is called but it's the same color but bigger (not HM). I will put up something if/when I do.


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## Pri (Oct 20, 2010)

Your tank looks so natural with algae on the rocks compared to high tech iwagumi tanks. Sometime Iwagumi tanks looks like fake, as if everything has been done just for the photo shooting...too clean, too well organised and establish...

My planted tank http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myTanks/2076-Pri.html
My Cichlid tank http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myTanks/2075-Pri.html
My DIY project Journal http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/t...88-125g-pond-river-waterfall-diy-project.html
My Betta Pico http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/planted-nano-tanks/122780-black-white-planted-pico.html


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## justin182 (Aug 19, 2009)

A very natural looking tank!!!!
Nice job mate~


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## justin182 (Aug 19, 2009)

So envious of those of you who live in the west coast. You can just go hike and pick out your own manzanita. We just don't have any manzy in Ohio... :icon_cry:




talontsiawd said:


>


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Pri said:


> Your tank looks so natural with algae on the rocks compared to high tech iwagumi tanks. Sometime Iwagumi tanks looks like fake, as if everything has been done just for the photo shooting...too clean, too well organised and establish...



I think it is more those particular rocks, I have had other rocks that stay the color they were, not sure why but I like them. I paid like 10 cents a pound or something too.



Thanks everyone for the compliments. I kind of got bored of the natural and am trying a dutch tank. I didn't realize how much work it is going to be. I may do another rock scape, my girlfriend wants a tank and I have everything but the substrate and the tank for a 20L/29. I may do that at her place.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

justin182 said:


> So envious of those of you who live in the west coast. You can just go hike and pick out your own manzanita. We just don't have any manzy in Ohio... :icon_cry:


I have so much in my area it isn't funny. At the same time, it's hard to find great pieces that are broken off or on the ground. I don't feel comfortable doing any more than that, plus I go to Berkeley and people would freak out if I took big pieces off a living tree.


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## Ziggy (Sep 2, 2011)

Just admiring this and wondering (please forgive) what is "HC"?


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## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

Ziggy said:


> Just admiring this and wondering (please forgive) what is "HC"?


Dwarf baby tears Hemianthus callitrichoides.


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## Todlich (Aug 24, 2005)

Hate to bump an ancient thread, but just had to say _*WOW*_

I have not had the chance to have a tank of any kind in the last two years because of issues.But after seeing this and few others Iwagumi style, I have been talking to a buddy that has an extra 10g,and hob he will give me, to get started again.

Your post has been an inspiration for me to get back into the hobby again!

roud:


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Todlich said:


> Hate to bump an ancient thread, but just had to say _*WOW*_
> 
> I have not had the chance to have a tank of any kind in the last two years because of issues.But after seeing this and few others Iwagumi style, I have been talking to a buddy that has an extra 10g,and hob he will give me, to get started again.
> 
> ...


Glad you were inspired. I am doing a very similar approach on a new tank, rocks, one carpet plant, and no crazy equipment, just a simple light fixture and a HOB filter probably. It is the 20 long in my sig. I hope it turns out similar.


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## rininger85 (Jun 30, 2013)

nice! like the tank, looks like its been discontinued? You weren't running CO2 on this set up with 2x 23W CFL's? I was thinking I was going to stick with 2x13W CFL's in the 10gal I'm setting up, but the way your HC grew in maybe I should go 2x23W and do HC in there... I have some in my 55 gal that hasn't done that great (I think mostly because my cory cats tear it up when searching for food, but I'm battling algae on there I think due to too high of light and no CO2).


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

rininger85 said:


> nice! like the tank, looks like its been discontinued? You weren't running CO2 on this set up with 2x 23W CFL's? I was thinking I was going to stick with 2x13W CFL's in the 10gal I'm setting up, but the way your HC grew in maybe I should go 2x23W and do HC in there... I have some in my 55 gal that hasn't done that great (I think mostly because my cory cats tear it up when searching for food, but I'm battling algae on there I think due to too high of light and no CO2).


This tank was an experiment to me. When people say a plant absolutely needs CO2 to thrive, I take that as a challenge. 

If I were going to recommend a route to go, I would likely start with 2x15ish (13-15 watt, whatever bulb you like) for the first few weeks and see what happens. Then step up to the 23 watt (they even have bigger now, didn't then). 

I honestly don't know if I could repeat this tank or not. I have considered buying another 10 gallon since I have a hood for it but I would have to take down my little mini bowl in my sig to do so. I have the substrate, light and rocks, the only issue is the filter, my canister is overkill, can't use a HOB because it would be in my home recording studio.


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