# 270 gallon Low Tech Journal 29/05/06 'closing big mama down' :( *56k*



## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

Hi Guys,

I've done a few planted tanks so far, (see www.angelfire.com/emo/closure/fish.html ) and am now stepping up to the world of big tanks, which I originally purchased because of a) i wanted to keep arowana and b) there is only space for one tank in the house, so I made it as big as possible :lol: )

*Addendum: The aim of this tank as opposed to the smaller tanks that I have had will be to have something that will take time to grow in.. being such a deep tank I do not want to be continously pruning. *

I have good working knowledge of aquaria, so it is a matter of getting the goods together and putting them in place. 

The tank will pose problems however, its 270 gallons (6ftX2.5ftX2.5ft), I will probably be limited to medium to lower light plants due to it's incredible depth (it's hard for me as a 6ft guy to reach the bottom, so planting will be done with long long tools)

In the first photo is the goods I've gathered to start the tank:

Regulator, electronic ballasts (5 X 20 wt, 5 x 40 wt), Co2 tester, Sea Chem Flourish Iron (will have to get normal flourish, used to dose with PMDD), Tetra Initial Sticks (i can't find these anymore?!), Hydor automatic feeder (i'm lazy) and Aquarium Plant Paradise by Amano, for me to gain inspiration from. 

The second photo is the tank, as it is now, with very little gravel and some of my mum's gold fish (who actually live in a tank outdoors)


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## aeternum23 (Sep 17, 2003)

Wow, big tank .

From experience, anything less than two watts per gallon falls into the low-tech requirement category. By low-tech, I mean there's no need to dose CO2, ferts, etc. The only thing I ever added to my low-light tanks was fish food.

Of course, I only kept low to medium light plants, but it looks like that's already your plan. Also, judging by your previous tanks, it certainly looks like you already know your stuff . Good luck in any case!


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

lol I don't really know my stuff, I just know how to build tanks from very little $$$ because I used to be a full time student, now that i'm earning some money I can actually afford not to do a half way job of everything!

Thanks for the luck, I'll need it 

and this 6X2.5 is already daunting and scary, and i havent even bought plants yet!


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## wellbiz (Aug 6, 2003)

Great tank..... 

Cant wait to see it set up and planted...  

While the WPG rule changes for real small tanks and really large tanks. I still think lighting is going to be an issue. The problem lies with the fact this tank is soooooo deeeep! You really need high intensity to get the light down that deep... I am not sure if NO flourecents will be enough... You might consider a PC or something stronger like MH.... Other than that, I am buying stock in seachem, cause you will need to buy flourite by the yard instead of the bag :shock: 

Looks great
Jason


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

I aint going down the flourite path, im earning money but I don't own Seachem yet lol

I will probably use laterite (i am good friends and used to work for an aquarium part time, so I get things relatively cheaper)

I will use laterite most likely. 

The foreground will be e tenellus + crypts so the light doesnt *really* need to punch that low, and any stem plants will be relatively low light loving (wisteria, hygrophila sp.) I will use lots of anubias and microsorium. 

the co2 is mainly because it boosts growth sooo much, even in low light situations

Amano states that in his large tanks wattage is of a lesser concern, but co2 is still vital. (see his first book and one of the last few tanks, they are what i am striving for)

btw I'm new to 'high' tech co2, so what else do I need besides the tank and the regulator and a home made diffuser?


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## wellbiz (Aug 6, 2003)

nornicle,

Laterite should work great... Sounds good... Cant wait to see more pics as it comes together...  

Jason


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

Current candidates for plants will be a mixture on the foreground and in the back ground some tall cryptes, vals.

There will probably be two 'feature' plants definitely including one red lotus tiger lily (beautiful ) and one sword of some sort.

fish at the moment i'm undecided on, apart from SAE's, Otocinclus, a couple of peppermint catfish and some dwarf cichlids. I might add a school of 20-30 harlequin rasboras and maybe 20 or so scissor tails.


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## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

Get some Altums. Your tank is sure big enough. Are you getting any wood or rock for that beast?


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

Here are some anubias gigantae and anubias afzelli I bought, I also bought some cryptocoryne becketii to see how it would look in my tank.

Here are some pics


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## 2la (Aug 18, 2002)

I don't think that's beckettii...more likely lutea or possibly wendtii.


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

i dunno i ordered it as becketii from the online retailer... 

In other news, the plant tongs (70cm with scissors) are REALLY handy, 2.5' is REALLY deep considering I bought a 800mm high cabinet!) I am 6ft and its STILL a reach to even touch the bottom of the tank

Today my girlfriend and I went down the back of her property (we're in Australia) and went into the bush land to find rocks and wood, we got HEAPS of wood, will take photos when I drive it back to my place for cleaning.

Got large pebbly rocks too.

bought some electrical tape to do my wiring for my lights and some silicone to glue the wood to the rocks.

I don't think this plant will be fully 'ready' for at least a month!


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

Gawd Dang that's a big tank !  

Dont add to much water flow to that thing... a drunken , wandering party guest may think its a hot tub and climb in it ! :lol: Sad but true, I have some friends that would do that... LOL
Thats a lot of real estate to plant, I am interested in watching this tank progress.

Be sure to check them rocks you collected for buffering abilities of your water... I think one snuck by me in my tank, the PH is rising  

Good luck and happy planting :wink:


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## hypsophrys (Nov 16, 2003)

Yeah, you might consider a "Beware of Piranha" sign.


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

added wood to hot water in a pond out the back today, and poured lots of salt into the water.... 

I hope eucalypt wood is safe for fish


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

I don't think so


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

Here is the pictures of my 'tea pond' containing all the bits of wood, and pebbly rock, although I have access to sand stone pieces as well


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## Scorpion (Oct 10, 2003)

You got the tank of my dreams! Is that a custom made tank?


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

uh kinda, 6X2.5x2.5 aren't common but they ordered quite often at the store where I used to work, so I picked one up that a guy didnt want, the cabinet was built by a cabinet maker, but made 800mm high instead of standard 600mm..

I was surprised to learn it holds a bit more water than a 8X2X2.

- Richard


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

Note : All these are still in the 'tank creation' phase, I am getting everything together and nothing right now is or even close to being final. 

I pulled the wood out of the pond today and I had java fern + moss floating around so I decided to build some wood bits... 

Generally my wood bits are very ugly at first, but after a couple of months they look really nice after they have grown in.

I also acquired a beautiful piece of immerserd bobiltis for $50 (bargain!). In Sydney it is very difficult to get special plants, and bolbitis is sold only in its emmersed form. The same goes for special plants that aren't in the country like christmas moss, impossible to get!


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

here are the results

due to the rare nature of bolbitis, I am collecting as I find it, as well as cheap sources of java moss/fern and anubius

the afzelli and gigantae i bought the other day melted in this tank... ?! I've never had anubius melt on me before!


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

Angle your camera slightly down or up, so that we cant see the reflection of the room...


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

there is still wood left if I want to use them... although I think I will use some nice dark rocks instead.. I will use dark gravel too

oh I knew there were reflections *waves to the crowd* haha thanks for the tip nordic, I usually take photos when its night time, but couldnt resist showing you guys my stuff  will angle it next time


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## fishpoop (Feb 27, 2003)

nice tripod dude

what are you lighting it with?


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## Scorpion (Oct 10, 2003)

That grass (your lawn) looks like fake turf.


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## wellbiz (Aug 6, 2003)

Scorpion said:


> That grass (your lawn) looks like fake turf.


Reminds me of a golf course... A nice memory as I look out side at 3 inches of snow and single diget temps....

Jason


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## Scorpion (Oct 10, 2003)

Same here Jason!


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## rumples riot (May 29, 2003)

The grass is probably cooch or Kykoya (spelling?). Grows everywhere is Australia and is a bit of a pest in the Garden.

Well got to say I like the dimensions of your tank. And am happy to see a fellow Aussie on the site. Not many of us here, so welcome aboard. If you need some plants I might be able to help, got a few things like chain sword that is a pest in my tank. Looks great and helps keep nitrate down.

I think for that tank you will need a large piece of driftwood, the pieces you have will look great in the foreground, but you really need a moster piece for the back.

Anyway I think the tank size is great and am anxious to see it take shape.

Paul


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

its bull grass, kikuyu is generally used only for fields of cattle grazing grass 

its summer here, hot today!

uhm im lighting the tank with 2 flourous at the moment and will at the end of aquascaping will have 5 X 4ft and 5 X 2 ft bulbs over it, using co2


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## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

Looks good!

It appears that you have a spraybar pointed down towards your bolbitus. Great move! With all the water flow across it the Bolbitus will become a monster soon!

Mike


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

it seems I wasn't surgical enough in my removal of dirt from wood, the tanks all cloudy, time to pull out the purigen


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## Ace (Dec 10, 2003)

I think it is ok.You sure have a handsome face 8) :lol: 
Great tank that is.Has any thinking of changing the lights?looks too red to me.


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

heheh nothing in this tank is at all final, only the filter heater and some plants will exist at the end of the transformation...



I'm going to the hardware store tomorrow to buy some tubes to test their colours... i.e sylvania gro-lux and nec and GE tri phosphors


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## AussieTanker (Dec 13, 2003)

hi, another aussie here ... 

would be very keen to find out the how your lighting search for that "monster" goes ...pls post the results ... i'm having trouble getting great lights here in sydney ... posting your success may help other aussies that use this board ...

congrats on your new tank ... it will be awesome when it's done ... pls keep us posted re its progress

regards,
aussie tanker


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## George Willms (Jul 25, 2003)

ANy updates Nornicle?


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

hi guy's i got a job at an aquarium store and I've been busy doing that and basically procrastinating/saving money for the next stage of my tank

I've pulled the thumb out of my *ahem* and started working on the tank again, I've set up my lights with the ballasts and am testing them for integrity now.. 

I'm going to put a 5 kilo base of terralit down and use duplarit balls for my echinoderns and what not..

With the lights, I will also tape on aluminium foil to perform the duties of a 'reflector'


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)




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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

for the time being i've decided to skip on co2, as im not cashed up enough yet, and the plant choice im picking won't require co2 to flourish anyway, although co2 is in my mind since i have the regulator


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

nornicle said:


> I'm going to put a 5 kilo base of terralit down and use duplarit balls for my echinoderns and what not..



Where did you find starfish for your aquarium? :wink: 

I know its spelled Echinoderm but I couldn't resist.


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

let there be light!


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

how it looks like now

will have to rip it apart to add the terralit then to smack in lots of crypts etc


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## tombsc (Nov 24, 2003)

I would suggest taking the foil off the hood and using proper reflectors or white paint instead. This should create more light for you


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## George Willms (Jul 25, 2003)

I agree....the foil will disperse the light more than reflect it.


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

why would the foil disperse the light?! :shock:


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## Verminaard (Dec 4, 2003)

nornicle said:


> why would the foil disperse the light?! :shock:


Because each little tiny krinkle of the foil will "bend" the light into many different directions instead of using a polished reflector that would gather and direct all light down in an efficient manner. With all that volume to penetrate, this would be a detail not to overlook.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Tin foil is just a real bad reflector. Worse than white paint. For a "directed reflection" mylar can be used. If there is no reflector shape whatever, white paint will be the best solution.


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## plantastic28 (Dec 22, 2003)

Good tip, what kind of paint do you guys recommend?


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

:shock: time to find some mylar/ white paint.. :shock: :shock: :shock:


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## plantastic28 (Dec 22, 2003)

What kind of paint?!?!


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## sailher (Feb 23, 2004)

This is all old news...
http://fins.actwin.com/aquatic-plants/month.9702/msg00453.html

Some interesting reading on emissivity of materials.
http://www.electro-optical.com/bb_rad/emissivity/matlemisivty.htm


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

New update.. my hood is sitting wired and sitting alone.. I bought high gloss white acrylic to paint it, and when it came to - the can was full of BLUE paint... just my luck!!!

Co2 is going to be installed soon!

My first order of plants will be in about a week - the ones in the photo i've been collecting or already had! (been collecting bolbitis as its rare in Australia)

Anyway I'm carrying on with the aquascaping anyway because that will take the most time and the plants I am working with require little light

Following discussion on good fore ground plants - 
http://www.plantedtank.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5847 
I'm probably going to try a mix E. tenellus, C. X willisi 'lucens' fore ground with sprockets of wendtii on the sides as well as some C. lutea on the sides...

Here is how the aquascaping is panning out, I'm trying to maximise use of height and depth in this tank since I have the luxury to 

BTW pics below are using my 'work light' (dbl 4fter that I can move around) and not the lights in my hood









This is part of the right side with what is known as 'jungle fern' which is like java fern but grows bigger (as you can see!) I'm trying to copy amanos style of sticking things out of the ground and providing light and dark areas.. hopefully the roots will grow out nicely!










This is the left hand side showing the wood and the plants all looking a bit tatty ( i left he tank without light for a couple of weeks nad the java moss went to sh#t  )










This is how it looks on the left i'm terracing it so I stick C. balansae on the far left side so it can drape across,

I am planning on having two giant amazon swords in the tank... am not sure on species yet!


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

oh i forgot I'm going to mix in red/brown gravel the light coloured river gravel irks me.. although you shouldnt be able to see much while I'm done

I also lay down a layer of terralit (Aquamedics attempt at laterite)

VERY GOOD it's like gravel, goes down without muddying up the water, I actually added it while the tank was semi full


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

wow.. i just reread some of the stuff I wrote (at 4 in the morning ) and I definitely need to do a edit on some posts (you cant understand what im babbling on about)

anyway, taking the advice of forumers I've torn down the foil...

I give you WHITE painted hood!


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

put in an order for

C. balansae qty 5
Echinodorus var. Red Rubin qty 1
Cryptocoryne walkeri qty 4
Cryptocoryne lucens qty 15 
Cryptocoryne wendtii 'MiOya' qty 1 
Cryptocoryne becketii qty 4 

the cost for just these few plants is already digging burning holes in pockets.. I figure another 2 or 3 orders before I tank planted out the way I like!

I want either Aponogeton Ulvaceous or Crinum natans in the left corner....


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

It's too bad you are in Oz, I could put a small dent in that tank with the extra crypts I have.


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

you could probably buy me a whole bunch of fish we can't get here too 

will put in an order for 40 Echinodorus tenellus pieces and a similar number of Sagittaria teres...

I want a HIGH growing plant, am thinking crinum natans, but cant seem to find it cheap anywhere.. was thinking aponogetons too but unsure if i can stand periods of dormancy 

btw when crinum first came into the country they sold for about $150 a PLANT..


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

The plants as per above are in! the back left spot is still empty as i am hanging out for some cheap crinum natans (I think a nice flowing bunch of them would look the cat's pyjama's)

I added JBL 7 balls clay balls and some Sera Flora Initial (with included 'Crypto' tabs) I had lying around...

From here on in I don't expect to update this journal to often (monthly?) except for installation of a DIY pressurised Co2 kit... (trying to keep it under $130 AUD) 

One photo is abit over exposed as im messing around with manual settings on my digicam.


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## Fat Guy (Nov 19, 2003)

That's a whole lot of tank!!!

can't wait till it fills in.


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

hrmm was just thinking (late night thinking lol) about costs since the majority of what i want is in the tank... so i'm going to work it out.. 

with everything already there i spent

$112 on 170 kg's of gravel (I know I know.. ripped off but I cbfe'd driving all the way to the cheapest fish store in town just to drive to the gravel place for gravel, and hey they had colour bits for $20 :lol: aussie a 300g can ...)
~$80 for Terralit
$20 JBL the 7 balls
$5 Sera Flora Initial (bought from a dusty store in Malaysia)
$60 regulator
$260 light tubes
$100 ballasts switches etc.
$7 white paint
$15 Co2 in tank measurer
$40 Dupla bubble counter
$380 on plants (the list is above somewhere... I better draw a map of this darn thing... I haven't even finished planting it yet.. but Crinum is about $16 a plant here. :shock: )
$46.40 12 congo's (found them for $3.95AUD at 2.5 inches .. 'random tetra 's for $3.95... suffice to say I bought them ALL)

= $1125.60 (I thought I did everything cheaply too :shock: )

Thats not including the tank and cabinet (which was around $2k+) or the filters... Eheim 2217 and 2215 ($450)... and the two heaters... ($60)


:shock: ... I think i'll have a lie down now..

and then think about buying some fish for the darn tank. :twisted: 

n.b my first 2ft planted was a free tank, $5 of yeast + bi carb soda, $70 worth of plants, gravel I scoured from old tanks, lights I scoured from anywhere (maybe $100), Tetra initial $5, PMDD (free).... now THATS perspective...


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

nornicle said:


> :shock: ... I think i'll have a lie down now..


Lie down in front of the tank, watching the swimming fish is good for lowering one's blood pressure.

That's gonna be a tank I'd love to have...


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## Raul-7 (Oct 17, 2003)

Why not use JBL Aquabasis? I've heard great things about this additive...It's even a good thing to watch your tank before you go to sleep, especially if your in a bad mood.


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## compulsion (Mar 2, 2004)

good work mate, funny i baught those exact plants last week, 2 anubias and 1 crypt.... crypts are nice because they add a bit of large to the tank


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## Tonyd (Jan 22, 2004)

Looks great, gonna be fantastic when it grows in. 

Tony


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## rumples riot (May 29, 2003)

Nornicle, just to let you know your tank is still cheaper than mine, I have spent $9,860.00 on my tank including fish ($800.00) plants ($750.00) Co2 ($2,300), Under gravel heater($1,700.00), Lights (Halides $2,300 + Heto fluros $600.00), filtration ($900.00), spare backup heater ($150.00), and gravel ($360.00). That does not include fish food, electricity (which is really expensive here), water for water changes and fertiliser for the tank.

You got a bargain at a 1/3 of the cost. Good luck to you, I just chose a name brand and paid the cost, but as a result expect the reliability that comes with the cost.

Best of luck for you and your tank. I like the design and look forward to the tank growing in. BTW do you know anyone that want to buy 2 twin six foot heto with chrome reflectors?

Paul


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

chrome reflectors.. 8) 

:shock: @ rumples riot 



> I have spent $9,860.00 on my tank


thats amazing... 

I think i'll go lie down again


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## rumples riot (May 29, 2003)

Lucky I don't have a wife or kids to worry about. This is getting to be more than an obsession!!

Paul


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## Vinlo (Mar 29, 2003)

$2300 for a co2 system? Is it gold plated? Seems pricey.. I could have bought one and flown down for vacation and given you it for cheaper. Well.. maybe not. Your tank look stellar though Paul.

I think Nornicles tank is going to solid too once it fills in. Given me inspiration for my next tank..


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

i added 2 fish today


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## chinaboy1021 (May 30, 2003)

beautiful looking fish. what kind of fish is it?


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## rumples riot (May 29, 2003)

Nornicle, warning, take that fish back as soon as you can. That is a cichlid and they will dig up all your plants, they are very aggressive also and they will eat little fish whole and get really large. Im not 100% certain but I think it comes from one of the african lakes. Great fish but not what you want. IMO.

Vinlo, yeah really sorry about the price of the CO2 system myself. However, here is Oz the price of high tech gear especially Dupla and Eheim (items with years of reliability) is at a premium. We unfortunately dont have as big a market as you guys and gals in the States, and without any real competition the prices are sky high. Still it was worth every cent I paid and when it boils down to it at least my hobby keeps me off the streets.

Paul


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

I think the genus name for that fish used to be (might still be) Geophagus which roughly translates as 'earth eater'.


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## rumples riot (May 29, 2003)

SC, Yeah think your right, have seen them at the local fish store when I kept malawi cichlids. saw those guys move substrate from one side of the tank to the other in one day.

I tried the cichlid and plants idea myself for over twelve months and in the end gave up. They are too savage with plants, its not their fault, they just love to dig. Now I have the gentle cichlid ( the king) Discus.

Paul


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

lol yeh I know what they are..

Wrongly called the Satanoperca jurupari in Australia it's actually Satanornoperca leucosticta. 

It is a Geophagine species meaning yes indeed it is an Earth Eater and will suck on gravel... i'm holding on to these for a friend and im watching them very carefully..

Geophages although cichlidae, are probably one of the more calm and gentle fish, in my final plant layout i am thinking of a couple of pair of these fish mixed with some other smaller cichlids...

I took a photo to show him, they will probably not be permanent residents..


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## rumples riot (May 29, 2003)

alrighty then, dont say I didnt warn you.

Paul


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

http://www.calgaryaquariumsociety.com/Articles/The_Peaceful_Amazonian_Cichlid_Community_Tank.html

here is an interesting site about plants and geophagines

btw Dupla in Australia has fixed their prices, so pretty much unless you are on *really* good terms with your dealers, its MSRP/RRP all the way.

A cheap but equally effective (and German) alternative is Aquamedic..


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## George Willms (Jul 25, 2003)

rumples riot said:


> That is a cichlid and they will dig up all your plants, they are very aggressive also and they will eat little fish whole and get really large. Im not 100% certain but I think it comes from one of the african lakes.


The Gephagines are central/south american cichlids, not african cichlids. Some people have been able to keep them in a planted tank with some success, usually with rooted plants though such as swords and crypts.


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## Fat Guy (Nov 19, 2003)

George Willms said:


> rumples riot said:
> 
> 
> > That is a cichlid and they will dig up all your plants, they are very aggressive also and they will eat little fish whole and get really large. Im not 100% certain but I think it comes from one of the african lakes.
> ...


Yup.


They can be ok with heavily rooted plants, but if you're just beginning planting, he will uproot them. 

I think they are gorgeous and terrific fish, but not for a planted tank.

It's fun to watch them such up the gravel, swish it around then spit it out. But I wouldn't want to watch him do that in my planted tanks.

Good luck with them.


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## rumples riot (May 29, 2003)

Thanks George on the heads up. Thought I had not seen it in any of the African books, but was up late last night and too tired to go and look for myself.

Paul


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

Paul, you'll like this one, I'm going to get DISCUS :O

I'm currently thinking 6 X F3 Red Alenquers.... :twisted: 

Oh I returned the leuco's to my friend, they didnt dig up plants, but their turning over of the gravel made dirt go EVERYWHERE!


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## rumples riot (May 29, 2003)

Nornicle, Alenquer reds are really nice when they get bigger, have got a couple myself. I went and bought two Ghost discus on the weekend, have not seen much of them since then. They tend to hide a lot for a couple of weeks.

Just watch your PH with discus, easy to look after, but the Ph needs to be looked after tightly. Good thing with discus, you can have lots of dither fish and they won't get eaten.

Paul


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

summary of things so far 

(same pic as before, not much has changed)









*Details*

*Plants* (from front right to back left, crypts first)

Cryptocoryne _walkeri_
Cryptocoryne _becketii_
Cryptocoryne _balansae_
Cryptocoryne _wendtii 'mi oya'_
Cryptocoryne _lucens_ (sold as this but is actually C. _willisii_ X _'lucens'_ a naturally occuring 'hybrid' plant according to Tropica, although I doubt that the plant I have is the true C. _willisi X 'lucens'_...)
Echinodorus sp. _'chain sword' _
Vallisneria_ americana 'gigantae'_
Vallisneria _americana 'natans'_
Ceratopteris _thalictroides_
Hygrophila_ polysperma_
Bolbitis _heudelotii_
Jungle fern (not sure if its Microsorium or not)
Microsorium_ pteroptus 'windelov'_
Echinodorus_'rose'_ (E. _horemanii ''rot''_ X E. _horizontalis_ according to Tropica)
Echinodorus '_red rubin'_ (E._ horemanii ''rot''_ X Echinodorus _barthii _according to Tropica)
Microsorium_ pteroptus_
Vesicularia_ dubyana_ (although who knows what it REALLY is..)

*Fish:*

6 x Apistogramma_ agassizi 'red' tail _although god knows where they are now.. I can only ever spot 2 or 3 at a time.
1 X Ancistrus _hoplogenys_ Peppermint bristlenose (I was going to remove him for fear of chomping on my plants.. but for now he can stay - truly a fantastic looking fish)
7 X Congo tetras (I killed 5.... don't ask...  )
1 X guppy (again.. don't ask  )

*Technical*

Filter : Eheim 2217 (will be packed full of filter wool + carbon to draw tannins out of water) + 2215 (packed with filter wool and coral sand, will act as a reactor for co2)
Tank Size : 6x2.5x2.5
Lighting : 4 x Arcadia Marine White, 4 X Arcadia Tropical (2 of each in 4ft and 2ft)
Fertilisation : Tetra Hilena Initial Tabs, 'Crypto' Tabs, JBL 'The 7 Balls,' Aquamedic Terralit base, Seachem Flourish and Iron.

*The Future:*

*Plants:* 

I want Crinum natans growing up and in the left side ( hiding the equipment and providing some shade). I want C. willisi mixed into the fore ground... and possibly grow some more wendtii.. but I will have to watch the evolution of the tank, esp the swords... (note that even in a tank this big, i've only planted TWO swords!!!)

If I had all the plants in the world, I would replace the jungle fern (in my opinion it is of only so so aesthetic value) and replace it with narrow leaf java fern. I would replace all java moss with 'micro' moss and grow christmas moss on the same log as the jungle fern. 

*Fish:* 

*DISCUS*

*Technical:*

Never fear, DIY pressurised Co2 is on the way.  I want to add fans to cool the lights, and maybe use power compacts, overdriven normal output lights or metal halides. Another future upgrade is adding another eheim 2217... or selling them all and upgrading to a Eheim 2260 (the cost is the prohibitive part! at least $700 just for the filter ALONE i.e no media)

_*Stay tuned for more developments!*_


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## Ace (Dec 10, 2003)

better get em quick! your vallis is dying in there :wink:


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

actually the old leaves are dying off and the new leaves are growing in now...
lots of new growth and lots of old leaves dying off,

got an A. ulvaceus and threw in about 45 rummy noses.

Will get 7 Red Alenquer discus in about 2 weeks.


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## rumples riot (May 29, 2003)

Don't get the discus until you have the CO2. You will place young discus under a lot of stress if you don't have CO2 in place and running.

Paul


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

why is that? pH crash or what? 

Cheers,

7 x Red alenquers coming in about 2 weeks.


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## ninoboy (Jan 26, 2004)

Discus are quite sensitive toward pH fluctuation. You don't want to adjust your CO2 equipment when the discus just arrive. It'll take them much longer to settle in.


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

i tried using a low exposure (1/20) and a high f stop (F2.8) ? not sure but it didnt turn out so good and i had to photoshop some light into it, and the colour is all off

the crypts have all thrown out new leaves, the chains are starting to throw out new leaves and start runners..

it's starting to 'grow in'


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

The fun is underway!


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

Update to my tank

a) i've added about 50 rummy nose tetras and about 26 Corydoras sterbai
also 2 neons and 4 ember tetras went in from my other tank (had to turn that tank into a siamese fighting fish grow out tank)

b) added CO2!! finally!!! the tank with gas cost $136AUD for 4.5 kilos... should last me a few years I reckon!










co2 tank in place and bubbling one bubble per second.

I thought it would be a good time to show some of my older aquascapes










2ft planted tank (DIY tech)










4ft planted (low tech)










small 10 gallon tank (low tech)


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

ooh and another thing, my discus are in the country - another 2 weeks till they are out of quarrantine, so watch out guys - im putting 7 red alenquer discus in there 

oh and if anyone in Oz can help me out im looking for like maybe 15 pieces of Crinum natans.... at most I can only afford around $10 a piece and even then im pushing it


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## Knetter (Nov 4, 2003)

I lik the second one with the dark spot. This gives a mysterious look! Perhaps your main tank have too much space between the crypts. I would plant them together in a nice bush and fill the gained empty space with another small plant.


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

heheh they're brand new so im waiting for them to grow into a clump...

I had a stuff up tonight, my bloody solenoid decided it would be funny to malfunction, so now i have a regulator that doesnt work... anyone got any ideas on where to get a cheap regulator that is damn good and DOESNT have a solenoid.. include needle valve if possible.. wouldn't mind two gauge, but one gauge will do

*annoyed*


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

You can't take the solenoid off your regulator and use it without? It should just unscrew, then you can unscrew the hose fitting from the solenoid and screw it into the regulator where the solenoid was.


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

DONE!

very happy now.. screw the solenoid.. german made my ass... 

I am using my Eheim 2215 as a reactor.. my friend is wary i might screw up my filter if i burble too much gas in, the regulator breaks or the gas dump from the co2 cylinder comes about..

im dosing 1 bubble per second is that enough?


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

thanks for the tip SCMurphy - i didnt know i could just remove the solenoid!!

heres another fiddle around with fstops and exposure times..


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

im having issues with deaths in my tank, and im not 100% sure what it is, if its pathogen its killing my fish VERY quickly.

every day for the last 5 days i've been fishing out 1 dead Sterbai and I've lost a congo and a rummy nose in the last couple of days...

the deaths started after the addition of sterbai and Co2 ...

I did a 30% water change yesterday but today found more dead fish.

I currently mixing up some anti parasite/worm food for the fish just have to wait till it dries... REALLY bugging me..

could it be co2 poisoning at night?


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## digger (Feb 18, 2003)

Measure your pH (morning before lights come on and evening just before lights out), Ammonia, Nitrite. If those values don't look suspicious it's probably something biological.


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

pH was 8< :shock: 

i probably put TOO much crushed coral in the filter..

anyway.. picked up a pretty nifty gadget today - Eheim surface extractor...

problem is the sound of the co2 going intot he intake is audible now so will have to work out some way of dispersing co2.. considering using a powerhead DIY bell....


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

am considering this composition later on










red on the left would be Crinum natans, blue next to that some kind of medium height large 'feature plant' or plant grouping, the dark green would be where all the vallis would be moved (behind the java fern), and the dark orange would be C. balansae interspersed with other stuff. 

thoughts?


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

moved hygrophila to the back left corner, will remove it entirely later on when i can find this impossible to find crinum :roll: 

trimed fern, moved val around nothing much really... 

installed a eheim surface skimmer..

have been having rummy nose popping off, so im feeding them an anti worm and anti parasitic med...

discus going in tomorrow so i wanted some pictures before bye bye 

if anyone is interested i might post up a video..


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## kreinhart (Mar 15, 2004)

Get another type of wood. Add a pH controller, etc. Also, you're going to have a center piece tank. Consider making a background. You can make tunnels, fake roots, overhands, river banks, rocks, etc. You're mostly limited by your own creativity. See the example below.

http://aquabotanicwetthumb.infopop....06023812&m=9396026555&r=1606071655#1606071655


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## Raul-7 (Oct 17, 2003)

It's looking real good, great transition from what it looked like in the beginning. The tank now looks more clearer, did you add more light?


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

nope i did use a bunch of purigen to take out the tannins in the water though, and ive started using an eheim surface skimmer to take that scum off the surface

added discus today, now waiting for them to pose for photos :roll:

my photo taking is getting better too.. not great though, i can't seem to get 'depth' in my photos, i mean its 2.5' deep but it doesnt look it!


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## equilibrium (Feb 26, 2004)

It's looking good. I would consider moving the vallis a little further left to give a little more background cover. How about more broadleaf/grass type plants for different textures?

How is the surface extractor working for you? Does it make any noise? I'm thinking of using one with my 2026 along with a ball valve and additional intake to scale back the flow through the surface extractor.


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

I have considered it, but i want crinum along the back left... to the background job... I want it all to grow in heavily before I make any more big steps in terms of aquascpaing, i've been pulling out val on the far right though, so good call!!

The surface extractor is worth its weight in gold imho, I have it mated to a 2215, and although the instructions say to add an additional intake i haven't and haven't been bugged by noise (although at first the valve at the bottom intake did make 'clanking' noises but that settled away, but any more than a 2215 worth of flow rate and i would use an additional intake)

I've added discus - 5 red alenquers and 1 red turquiose... my photos are still over exposed and grainy


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## equilibrium (Feb 26, 2004)

Everything is looking good. I love the color of those fish against the green of the plants. If I imagine crinum as drawn in a previous post, it still seems that you would not have background cover in the very center of the tank. I was thinking you might slide the vallis or something else tall over there.


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## Verminaard (Dec 4, 2003)

Really coming along nicely nornicle! Great choice of fish but what about the water changes? Thats going to be painful


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

yes in the winter months when the water is too cold out of the tap it will be a PITA to do water changes...

i really dont have anywhere in the house to put a tub to hold water and heat it up..

*what to do*


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## rumples riot (May 29, 2003)

Nornicle dont worry about water changes, I do them straight into the tank, fish are fine (discus) it gets down a little on temp, but will heat up again in a short period of time. I did this all last year and never had a problem.

Paul


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## Tonyd (Jan 22, 2004)

That is looking FANTASTIC! Keep up the good work, I want to know it can be done so I can still dream of the giant planted discus tank one day.  

Tony


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## rumples riot (May 29, 2003)

Tonyd, I have a large discus planted tank, if want further proof just go to 90 gallon jounal new set and look at the last couple of pages. You will discus in that large tank.

Paul


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

Looking good nornicle.... I like the second shot better and as far as the breaks in the background... I like it, especially with the blue background ! Blue backgrounds are much better in person then they are in photos. I have had both and I still say the blue backgrounds light up a room more then plain black. 
You will also find (or have allready found) that you will drive yourself nuts trying to get the tank just right... sometimes a good 4-5 weeks of growth gives you a better idea of what will come... :wink: 

Dont get sucked into the aquascape trap... it has teeth ! :lol:


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

another plan... to increase shade area because i figured out that discus are shy creatures and need some shade to feel comfortable 

it will be a piece of drift wood + lots of java fern + moss on it...

along with the crinum i still cant find


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## corigan (Feb 22, 2004)

nornicle said:


> another plan... to increase shade area because i figured out that discus are shy creatures and need some shade to feel comfortable
> 
> it will be a piece of drift wood + lots of java fern + moss on it...
> 
> along with the crinum i still cant find


Sounds like the perfect plan nornicle. One of my favorite discus tanks has a similar design you are talking to. Has alot of anubias and ferns/moss on the driftwood and the discus love to bunch under it. I also read somewhere that discus like to be kept with smaller schooling fish and once they see the smaller schooling fish swimming around out in the open swimming areas they have a tendency to see that the coast is clear and will come out of their shady hiding areas to show off a little and get some swimming action. I can't wait till I have enough money to setup a discus tank, really amazing fish.

Matt


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

the discus are hiding, i wish theyd school like in my pictures more.

everytime i open the hood they sprint for cover...

a sterbai i found had fungus and was looking mighty sick, i took him out for the sake of the others..

*sigh* turned off the co2 cos it was over filling my 2215 so im considering making a reactor..


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## Kim Leng (Mar 25, 2004)

Hi there noricle,

Just only got to know of this forum .... I too just started a 6 by 2.5 by 2.5 ft planted tank for an arowana.....its been about one month plus since I started planting. 

Pity you are not here or I could pass you my C. Balansae...just took out close to 60 stalks to pass to my friends aquarium shop.

I am lucky as in Singapore things are much cheaper. 

I will be getting my camera back and will post it up.... my tank looks smaller as I am running a sump system and I have a thick river sand bed (About 5 inches thick)

You should have little problems being 6 ft and reaching the bottom of the tank... I am 6 ft too and whilst standing on a stool I can reach the bottom of my tank.... My stand is 28 inches high...

So are you going to put an arowana into your tank ??

In the meantime, if anyone wants to see my tank can follow this link.

http://www.arofanatics.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=115927

Regards,


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## Kim Leng (Mar 25, 2004)

By the way, this is the breakdown of costs for my tank so far.

still calculating...but so far.....

Tank and sump.....850
Stainless steel stand ..... 300 (Raw materials as made by friend)
Gravel.......Free
Pump.....free
MH Lights..... 375
Substrate....... 350+ (Denerrle)
Plants.......100
Test Kits.....140+
CO2 reactor.....self made.....20
Tools.....41
Fert.... 45 + (Liquid ferts)
Fish....80 (Including casualities)
Baking Soda......15
Fish Food....5
Fan....free
CO2....130


Chinese Doctor.....30 (For back pain) 

Total so far plus minus.... 2456.......

Add one half HP chiller .... 500

2956.....is the total is Singapore dollars !!!


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

wah you're using a chiller on a planted setup, first time i have heard of that!! 

you know that tank i have now use to be bare, and kept an RTG about 18inches in it, was my baby until I moved it and it got gill curl 

The thing is, aro's in australia are DAMN expensive, they are illegal so any aro coming into the country is smuggled... to give you a rough idea of cost, a green will cost you at least $500+, an RTG is at least $2500+, a red is minimum $6000+ AUD.... roughly same as sing dollar! I figured the cost of aro was too much..

nice tank man, I wish aquatic supplies in Australia were as cheap as in SG and M'sia (I bought my regulator + other things while I was back there)


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## Kim Leng (Mar 25, 2004)

Using a chiller as the temperature here can go to 32 degrees C.... coupled with MH lights not so good as temp goes sky high...


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

Heres a 5/5/04 update of the tank! co2 kinda stuffed up for a while but I've got it all going good guns now it was screwing up the canister so i stopped that.. also had a spate of saddle back *DOH*

oh photos were taken as the lights were going off so all the plants have closed up! doh!

whole tank









right side









Red Alenquer Discus - i can hook up people in Australia with good discus if they want, I know the importers - Slippery little suckers!

1.









2.









3.









4.


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

Wow! roud: roud: That's my 'Tank of the Day'!


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

I am getting serious "big tank envy"...

Awesome tank and fishies.


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## Dkle (Apr 11, 2004)

Breathtaking!!!! Love those schools of fishes!!!!


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## rumples riot (May 29, 2003)

Nice Reds Nornicle, really nice, might like to have a few of them myself. They seem to have gotten over their shyness.

Paul

BTW tank looks out of sight.


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## Scorpion (Oct 10, 2003)

Wow!
Can I get those pics in bigger resolution so I can use them as screen savers? I am speechless!


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## tommyboy22481 (Mar 24, 2004)

Those discus are really fantastic, if I ever get a tank bigger than 20 gallons I will probably try to keep some discus. Plants are looking great too!


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## Sedghammer (Jan 5, 2004)

Amazing, man. I too have big tank envy.


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

Thanks for all the feedback guys, one thing i have come to realise with keeping a big tank, is you need to have a 'big' view of the aquascape.. This thing looks good in the living room, but in reality if I would probably have more preferred the same amount of money spent on as many 2 ft tanks as i could lay my hands on..

At the end of the day a well kept 2ft tank looks just as awesome as a big tank, but this tank is really easy to keep, pruning is very low (just stem plants once a fortnight or more)

If anyone in Australia can put me onto some crinum, i'd be very very in debt!

btw should I add malaysian trumpet snails? i've had them before but it seems they are unkillable should i want to remove them... anyone?


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)




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## unirdna (Jan 22, 2004)

Wow, this tank is really starting to take shape. I vote nornicle for the most-patient-aquarist-of-the-year award. You're starting to make the high tech stuff look superfluous . Nice aqauscaping and beautiful fishies!


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

btw if anyone wants to see a video of the tank i have one, but no space to upload it to!


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## Scorpion (Oct 10, 2003)

Nice pic!


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## KyleT (Jul 22, 2002)

I can host it for you nornicle, give me a quick pm/email depending on the size of the file. 

Kyle


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

long time since i posted anything,

here is a small update 

this photo is actually about a month old

The tank just celebrated its first born, a baby panda cory


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## Hop (Mar 27, 2004)

This is such a great tank and needed a bump. NornicleI was wondering if there were any updates?


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## bastalker (Dec 8, 2004)

Very impressive!!! roud: 

Those discus gotta be in heaven!! :icon_bigg


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## Lorenceo (Jan 29, 2004)

Updates anyone?  

I know I'd like some! roud:


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## Edouard (Apr 30, 2004)

I just discover that tank, and it's a beauty!
I love it! Do you have any new picture? roud:


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## ridns (Aug 9, 2002)

If I had a tank like that I would swear I had died and went to heaven! You've done a fantastic job, that tank is beautiful! I am sooooooo jealous.


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## lotus02 (Feb 17, 2005)

Wow beautiful tank. :drool:


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## Blade (Jul 27, 2004)

This deserves a 5 star rating.


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

edit : thanks lorenceo 


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/nornicle/plants/IMG_37642.jpg


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## Lorenceo (Jan 29, 2004)

Where are all the discus? :icon_eek: 
And all the other stuff...

Still looks nice though.. roud: 
Why dont you load your old photo editing software fom your old com onto the new one?


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

Lorenceo said:


> Where are all the discus? :icon_eek:
> And all the other stuff...


outbreak of parasites + velvet killed alot of fish, and also im down to 9 rummy nose  all the catfish are okay and the panda cories actually bred and had little baby cories..

I lost 2 or 3 discus too


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## Lorenceo (Jan 29, 2004)

This any better? sorry bout it not being very good.. im a photoshop noob.. :icon_redf


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## Lorenceo (Jan 29, 2004)

Ohh, sorry about your losses.. :icon_frow


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## a2ana (Feb 14, 2003)

I will be setting up a 220 gallon tank starting sometime in the middle of this month (may) once I move into my new house.
It's a 72x24x30 tank.
Thanks for the updates.
I will be using alot of your experience to start this big project. I will be doing this with my Madagascar cichlids. Again Madagascar "cichlids"
Yes, I too am crazy and hopful that it will work. I currently have a 30 gal with Magadascar cichlids; and yes my P. Oligacanthus are moving sand all day. But once the plants start to take up roots, they are fine, unless the fishes decide to shred the leaves. I am still hopeful that this can work. I have seem planted cichlid tanks and they do mix. There is someone on this forum with beautiful pictures of planted cichlid tanks.
great work. roud: 
a2ana


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

thanks for all the replies guys

unfortunately in the last YEAR (yes its been that long since i posted) i let my tank slide, lights started failing , discus started dying and i studied hard to finish my degree... now that i've started full time work i will be spending alittle more time on this tank

i'll take a nightmare picture of the tank tonight and start planning my refurbishment of the tank

I also need to get a structural engineer to come see my house and hopefully make sure that it is not going to fall through the floor (all 1100kg+ of it)


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

I'm not sure if im allowed to post this here, but i assume that many people have followed my tank since its inception the end of 2003 (thats about 2 and a half years of keeping my tank!)

I have to shut the tank down and sell it all.. It's pretty sad but I need to move out. 

Some key lessons that I've learned from keeping a big tank, and i think others can learn.

* Plan well and plan early, keep all electronic gadgetry down to a minimum.
* Don't buy the biggest tank you can afford buy the biggest tank you can maintain
* Don't buy the best tank you can afford, buy the best equipment you can
* A big tank doesn't have to cost alot.
* Be VERY SURE WHAT FISH YOU WANT TO KEEP. you won't be able to get them out.
* DONT TRY TO GROW DISCUS OUT IN A PLANTED TANK (unless you have super filtration/ water change abilities)

I have gotten engaged and am moving out of the house, and the apartment will have no space for my tank. My parents are unwilling to keep it and I need to sell it. If you know someone who wants a huge planted tank and wants a tank with no holes in it (all cichlid/marine keepers seem to want sump holes!) Please tell them to PM me or email me at [email protected]

note the tank is in Sydney

ces't la vie

Here are some pics from over the years

































































note the plants have died back a little and are no longer in the fine shape they were in a year ago. with TLC they are still alive and WILL grow back with patience and care.

Here is a big res version of one the pics

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/nornicle/plants/IMG_3764.jpg
pics of the tank development start on page 4 for anyone interested

Just to give you a sense of how much plant life was in there, here is JUST the ferns (took them out to split/sell/prune)


















im not leaving the hobby either.. i have a 2X2X2 sitting out in the yard that i picked up from a guy who had it built and didn't want it.. so proceeds will go to fixing that up!


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