# Cheepest and best substrate?



## Ryzilla (Oct 29, 2005)

I need a good planting substrate that is high in nutrients that wont brake my bank roll. I need to fill in a 55gal tank but I dont want to spend over 100 big ones doing it. I could onyx sand for 22 dollars for 15lbs but even thats too expensive. Is there a cheap afordible alternative that I could find maybe at a home depot or a menards?

Thank you
Ry


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## dissident (Oct 15, 2003)

You could mix flourite/onyx/eco with a standard gravel. Or suppliment standard gravel with root tabs.


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

Three bags of Flourite and 100 lbs of coarse sand from whatever source you have. You want the sand to be the same basic grain size as the Flourite.

I can get 100 lbs of the correctly sized coarse sand locally for $17. The Flourite is $18 a bag locally.

My advice. Get the coarse sand first then buy as much Flourite as you can afford. If you mix them then you no more than 50% sand based on depth. Check how much shipping would be from some of the Internet stores. You are fairly close to a couple of them so it should not be that bad.

With a $100 budget you should be able to use total Flourite if you buy it at the right price.

Of course with your budget of $10,000 (100 big ones) you can use any substrate you choose. :wink:


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## anonapersona (Oct 19, 2002)

*recent posts on APD*

There were some posts recently on APD about a black sort of stuff that was being tested, used on golf courses or baseball diamonds??? Really cheap, in 50 lb bags. You might search Aquatic Plant Digest archives.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

anonapersona said:


> There were some posts recently on APD about a black sort of stuff that was being tested, used on golf courses or baseball diamonds??? Really cheap, in 50 lb bags. You might search Aquatic Plant Digest archives.


There's one right here too!! roud: 

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=23222


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## mrbelvedere (Nov 15, 2005)

Don't skimp on the substrate. Its one of the hardest things to move after it's in there. Save up for a while, and do it right the first time.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Given your criteria, the Soil Master Pro League charcoal is what you will want.
Looks good and performs well.
Runs about 10-17$ for enough to do about a 40 gal tank.
If it's too light for your planting taste, try finding some similar colored sand.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## DiabloCanine (Aug 26, 2005)

Ryzilla said:


> I need a good planting substrate that is high in nutrients that wont brake my bank roll. I need to fill in a 55gal tank but I dont want to spend over 100 big ones doing it. I could onyx sand for 22 dollars for 15lbs but even thats too expensive. Is there a cheap afordible alternative that I could find maybe at a home depot or a menards?
> 
> Thank you
> Ry


You should be able to get Onyx sand for around $1 a lb, shop around. Keep in mind it could raise the PH depending on water source:

http://www.seachem.com/products/product_pages/Onyx Sand.html


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## rasconza (Jan 2, 2004)

Just wanted to add that I recently took out my regular old gravel and put in the Soilmaster Select red. I like the look alot although it is EXTREMLY light. Even the slightest swhoosh in the water causes it to move around. I'm considering putting some sand on top of it. We'll see. The other thing about it was it was dusty as heck and despite my best efforts to rinse it still is a bit cloudy a day later. I think that it will fade tho. Ohh and I got it for $12 for a 50# bag so I got 3 bags for my 90 gallon tank thinking I would use at least 100#'s. I actually only used a bag and a half and got 3-4inches in depth so it goes a long way. Anyway just wanted to give you my experience with it. Good luck!

Raz


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

I just redid a tank with Schultz Aquatic Plant Soil (similar product, if not identical).

The cloudiness was gone in a day.

And yes, it does go a long way, because 50lbs. of that light stuff is a LOT.  Used only 7lbs. in my 10 gallon.


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## jimmydrsv (Apr 8, 2005)

I have turface which is the same as Schultz aquatic plant soil and supposedly the same material as soilmaster.

I have my fish swimming in and out of the stem plants i put in and it holds perfectly fine. I even have a few of my gouramis pulling on the finer needle leafed stem plants.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/plant_substrates_chart.php
I am not sure to the validity and bio avaiability of the elements on this comparison chart but it shows turface as having more iron, trace elements and cec than flourite. It makes me wonder why people consider it as going a lower quality route and skimping as some put it.

I haven't been disapointed so far. 50lbs for 8 dollars only made it nicer.


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## oceanaqua (Nov 24, 2005)

I never knew that flourite cec would be so low, only 1.7, comparing with profile's 33... something.


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## jgc (Jul 6, 2005)

pool filter sand or deminiralized soil are probably your cheepest. I am working on demineralizing some soil at the moment, so in a few months I might have something to post. My tank with sand is growing fine. There is a pretty decent debate over exactly what makes a good substrait. 

For those using EI, the thought it the high fert levels in the column will penitrate the substrait. The substrait does not need to be "rich", but just good at holding plants down, a conduite for contucting fert for root feeders, not cloud, not compact, be astetic, etc...

El Natural (super low tech) has different substrait ideas.


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## TheOtherGeoff (Feb 11, 2003)

Kitty litter!!!!!! 

cheap and you can get alot of it easily. just spread a llayer of gravel or something over the top of it and your good to go.


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## jimmydrsv (Apr 8, 2005)

I thought it was a gag last time i red something like this. Does it really work? What are the advantages. I can't imagine it being too much cheaper then sand or turface since it is commerically sold in smaller quantities(i think).


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## Ryzilla (Oct 29, 2005)

yes I would like to know as well wha type of benifits would come from kitty litter, and what type of litter would be used(brand, nonsented, how corse?)


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

Kitty litter is only good if you're keeping CATfish. roud:


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

Don't use kitty litter. A small group of people have had success with it. Many other people have had nothing but problems with it.

Most of the time CPA (Cat Piss Absorbent) will turn to mush underwater. So what happens is when you start working in the tank you get a nasty cloud.


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## medicineman (Sep 28, 2005)

Those kitty litter can turn into a mush when soaked. Some kitty litter products are made out of zeolite. Not all zeolite compatible for aquariums. We are handling zeolite mining in Indonesia and only some grades of zeolite from our certain mines are suitable. Like the ones 2-3 mm I'm using in my sump filter, they are more than 10 years old since taken and processed and they are still intact. Zeolite is a wonderful substance with very high CEC and if chosen right, can be a great substrate to plant. They are quite heavy and will hold down plants just nice.

Personally I'm using volcanic gravel (which is porous and sticks to magnet) because of the colour, mineral content and some CEC quality.

Kitty litter or not... hard to say. Zeolite or not..... say yes if you have a reliable source (I got mine from our very own mines).


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Do some searching on "kitty litter" here if you are interested, has been discussed thoroughly from all sides, aspects and opinions.


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## TheOtherGeoff (Feb 11, 2003)

my shrimp dont seem to mind being on it. its all covered with javamoss which has taken quick well to it and the plants are also sending roots down into it. so its not too bad or maybe i am just lucky. but one of my buds has kitty litter mixed in with his regualr gravel in his 55 and has no problems what so ever. plants are going nuts too


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## joan (Apr 25, 2005)

TheOtherGeoff said:


> maybe i am just lucky


I think that's the thing, all kitty litters are not created equal and you have as good a chance of making an absolute mess of your tank as you do of it turning out well.


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## wob (Apr 21, 2005)

I have had 0 problems with coarse sand that I picked up at Lowes (quickcrete general purpose sand) and a layer of laterite and ground up peat underneath.

This is clearly documented on how to do this in Rex's guide.

All plants are growing well. I dose via EI, so the plants get most of their ferts from the water column.

Robert


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## Jerm (Sep 26, 2005)

DarkCobra said:


> I just redid a tank with Schultz Aquatic Plant Soil (similar product, if not identical).
> 
> The cloudiness was gone in a day.
> 
> And yes, it does go a long way, because 50lbs. of that light stuff is a LOT.  Used only 7lbs. in my 10 gallon.



How deep was it?


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## csf (Jul 10, 2003)

I know this is an old topic, but I came across it and wanted to add my 0.02$.

I used 2 handfuls of peat and 2 handfuls of NC red clay (similar to laterite, but cheaper) in a 20 gallon tank. Mixed that with pool filter sand for the bottom 3/4" of the tank and then added another 2-3" of plain pool filter sand on top. Grew plants very well with 2wpg of CF light (20 gallon, 38 watt AHSupply setup). Chem dosed, high fish load (pleco breeding tank), lots of WCs, no extra CO2. I probably tossed in a few larger pinches of trace mix and 1-2 cut up jobes plant spikes as well in the bottom 1/2" layer.

A 50lb bag of pool sand was about $5. Peat moss was $5 a bag for easily enough and the red clay was from my back yard. $15 would cover upwards of a 75 gallon tank (2x50lbs of sand).


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## DiabloCanine (Aug 26, 2005)

A 50lb bag of soilmaster will cost you $7 if you purchase it right, spend the other $93 of some lights....DC



Ryzilla said:


> I need a good planting substrate that is high in nutrients that wont brake my bank roll. I need to fill in a 55gal tank but I dont want to spend over 100 big ones doing it. I could onyx sand for 22 dollars for 15lbs but even thats too expensive. Is there a cheap afordible alternative that I could find maybe at a home depot or a menards?
> 
> Thank you
> Ry


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## Burks (May 21, 2006)

Great topic. Helps make my decision a lot easier. 

I've been looking around for a cheap, dark colored substrate. Looks like Soilmaster is just right for me. Would there be anything else I need to mix with it?


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## Evergreen (May 1, 2006)

*Arcillite*

Arcillite, If its good enough for NASA its good enough for me. Its a baked clay, I've used it growing tomato plants hydroponically. Best of all you can buy it at home depot. 

Google it! 

Keith,


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## DiabloCanine (Aug 26, 2005)

Burks said:


> Great topic. Helps make my decision a lot easier.
> 
> I've been looking around for a cheap, dark colored substrate. Looks like Soilmaster is just right for me. Would there be anything else I need to mix with it?


Some mix it, some use it straight, if your goal is an inexpensive substrate, use it straight......DC


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## csf (Jul 10, 2003)

Arcillite and flourite are going to be similar, as they are both baked clay type products. I'll have to keep an eye out for it at Home Depot - what's it usually called and what section of the store?


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Arcillite = calcined montmorillonite clay = Profile = Schultz Aquatic Soil.

Find it in the pond section or Lawn Improvement Section.


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## Evergreen (May 1, 2006)

csf said:


> Arcillite and flourite are going to be similar, as they are both baked clay type products. I'll have to keep an eye out for it at Home Depot - what's it usually called and what section of the store?


The only difference I could find, is the peat will help release iron from the Flourite. Not sure you get the same effect from Arcillite. I don't see why not, unless it has something to do with the heat at which it is baked. I do know the stuff is lite and porous and absorbs nutrients very well! Might be fun to set up two tanks, one with Flourite and one with Acrillite and record growth rate.

Keith,


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## csf (Jul 10, 2003)

I've got schultz aquatic soil in a pond set-up. It's much lighter in color and weight than flourite. Does the arcillite come in a darker color?

My only "beef" with flourite after upwards of 9 years of usage is the color. I wish they had a version with more dark and less red. I *could* change to something else, but it's hard to simply toss out 100+lbs of flourite.


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## Evergreen (May 1, 2006)

I've never seen it in a darker color. I'll google around and see if anyone besides Schultzs makes it. Maybe you could mix it with something darker, but if you already invested in flourite probably best to stick with it.


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## mjproost (Feb 13, 2006)

> Great topic. Helps make my decision a lot easier.
> 
> I've been looking around for a cheap, dark colored substrate. Looks like Soilmaster is just right for me. Would there be anything else I need to mix with it?


I have seen it mixed with 3m Color Quartz to give it some weight. Otherwise, the usual peat and mulm underneath. If you want extra insurance and help for the root feeders add a layer of pelletized Laterite underneath also.



> I'll google around and see if anyone besides Schultzs makes it.


All these are essentially the same product:
Schultz's Aquatic Plant Soil - small bags make it a little spendier per pound
Schultz's Clay Soil Soil Conditioner - exactly the same as above but in 40# bag and cheaper, at garden centers.
Profile Clay Soil Conditioner - same as above different packaging
Soilmaster Red - very similar if not identical to above in 50# bag and is cheaper per pound.
Turface MPV - same as Schultz's, unsure of bag size/price

Soilmaster Select Charcoal - same material as all above but, charocal color and uniform smaller grain size.
Turface Black - I have never tried this, but supposed to be similar to soilmaster select.


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