# 180 gallon with all the bells and whistles



## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

I’m in the process of setting up a 180 that will be enclosed in a custom cabinet I am building. All you will see is the front glass of the aquarium. It will have two independent wet/ dry filters with separate pumps. It will also have a dedicated pump for the co2 reactor. There will be a drain to the basement along with a water supply for water changes. It will also have a float valve for evaporation and the sumps will have an emergency overflow Incase anything ever went wrong. I will keep you updated with pics from time to time. I’m pretty far along with the build so here’s some pics for your enjoyment


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Reckon I'll follow along.
Looks nice so far!


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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

This is the spray bar setup. All you will see eventually is the nozzles which will be just above the 4 inch aqua soil substrate level. I did the formula for calculating the number of holes and diameter of holes to achieve equal flow out each nozzle. I ordered a universal rocks 3d background which will surround the whole interior of the tank. There will be absolutely no plumbing etc visible from inside the tank. The 90degree elbow you see is for water changes and if I ever need to drain the tank. This will be behind the rock wall


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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

50 lb co2 tank in the basement. The regulator and pinpoint controller is from my last big tank setup 10 years ago. ( been out of the hobby for awhile) I was thinking about upgrading to a dual stage regulator but I have more important things to allocate the funds to right now.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Well you've got my attention.

Has the makings to be something special.

Looking forward to seeing where this goes.

Subscribed.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Wow.... I'm not sure why others aren't more impressed. That plumbing is art... the cabinet and stand look fantastic... wow... any thoughts on stocking yet??


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## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

Agreed Dude, this seems more like a commercial setup rather than residential. Wowee. Yeah, what are your plans?


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## RenoGuy (Dec 24, 2017)

Nice work... Following


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## SingAlongWithTsing (Jun 11, 2015)

are you a plumber or cabinet maker by trade?

curious to see how the spray bar works out with it being so low. it wont blow away the substrate will it?


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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

Thanks for all the compliments. I’m an aircraft mechanic by trade with a bad case of perfectionism. I applied the finish to the cabinet yesterday and did a test run on all the plumbing while the cabinet was outside. The spray bar flow worked perfect. I’ve had spray bars at substrate level before and haven’t had an issue with it blowing the substrate forward. Plus this substrate will have a serious slope from back of tank to the front. I’m not happy with these life guard pumps at the moment. Flow is great, but they are loud. I wanted to put in EcoTech dc pumps but they are big bucks. I might have to bite the bullet if they are still loud with the cabinet in place. No plans on stocking yet. I’m a huge discus lover and this is why the tank is so over filtered and setup for easy water changes but I’m not sure I will be stocking with discus right now. All I really care about is the plants, it will be a wanna be Dutch style.


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## SingAlongWithTsing (Jun 11, 2015)

Jebao/Jecod makes some DC pumps and they're pretty cheap compared to EcoTech.

I run a DCT 6000 (got in 2016) for my CO2 reactor and Jebao/Jecod DCP 8000 (got in 2017) for my main. DCT (older model) has a small hum but the DCP (newest one) is dead silent.


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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

i will check them out, thanks


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## The Bungulo (Aug 28, 2017)

I dont see discus in a dutch. Honestly, an Amano Style nature aquarium would be stunning in this.


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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

SingAlongWithTsing said:


> Jebao/Jecod makes some DC pumps and they're pretty cheap compared to EcoTech.
> 
> I run a DCT 6000 (got in 2016) for my CO2 reactor and Jebao/Jecod DCP 8000 (got in 2017) for my main. DCT (older model) has a small hum but the DCP (newest one) is dead silent.


I cant believe how cheap these pumps are. All the reefers seem to be happy with them and everyone says they are silent and reliable. I ordered a DCP6500 for the reactor and 2 DCP10000 for the returns from amazon. They sould be here tomorrow. Thanks for the recommendation!

Bump:


The Bungulo said:


> I dont see discus in a dutch. Honestly, an Amano Style nature aquarium would be stunning in this.


Yeah I'm setting up the tank as if I was going to stock it with discus because that is what I really love, but like I said, I'm probably not going that route right now. Just want it heavily filtered with the ease of water changes by turning valves just in case. The way I have it I could actually have a constant water change going on by cracking the drain valve and let the float valve control the level. I like Amano's style and Dutch too. Just not sure yet. I'm in no rush to get this thing planted and stocked and want to take my time coming up with a good plan.


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## Williak (Jun 26, 2012)

Man this looks awesome, can't wait to see it come along. Great build quality!

Jebao pumps are great btw, good purchase


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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

So I got the cabinet back in place after applying the finish this weekend. I sprayed it with a clear water based poly. I got the cabinet top installed and the electric ran for the lights. I’ve been waiting for a 20% off email from drs foster smith to order the fluval fresh and plant 3.0’s and finally got the email today. Went to order and guess what. Out of stock. Oh well lights will have to wait. The universal rocks background shipped today so I should have that soon. The new pumps should be here tomorrow. So basically what I have left is install new pumps, background, cabinet doors ( I cheated and ordered some online) add the ada soil and order plants! I’m figuring a couple more weeks before it’s up and running


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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

I got the jaebo pumps yesterday and all I can say is wow! These things are absolutely silent, I mean you cannot hear them running AT ALL. I’m so happy, thankyou so much for the recommendation. The two sump return pumps worked out good with the existing plumbing. I have to alter a few things for the reactor pump plumbing. I bent some sheet metal to make straps to mount the power supplies to the side of the cabinet.


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## yorknh (Feb 6, 2018)

Wow, really nice plumbing work and cabinet. I have a Jaebo dct-8000 for my 220 and it seems to be more than adequate. I get some minor hum from mine, but well within reason especially for the price paid. 

Looking forward to seeing your setup progress.


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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

yorknh said:


> Wow, really nice plumbing work and cabinet. I have a Jaebo dct-8000 for my 220 and it seems to be more than adequate. I get some minor hum from mine, but well within reason especially for the price paid.
> 
> Looking forward to seeing your setup progress.


thanks for the compliment. These pumps are the dcp models (sine wave technology). No hum at all, I swear you have no idea they are running. 
So I ended up having a very slight leak at the top of my reactor. I could see a drop of water form and fall about once every couple minutes. I decided to pull it and cut the top off and redo the glue joint. It's funny how things work out. when I was repairing it, I was looking at it and said to myself this thing looks like a giant bubble counter ( I made it out of clear pvc with regular pvc ends). previously I had drilled and tapped the top for my co2 input. Since I had to cut all that off I decided to drill and tap the clear pvc body about a 1/4 of the way down. It worked out great, I could see the co2 bubbles enter the reactor and could eliminate the bubble counter! I also have a even smaller leak at one of the bulkhead fittings for the left sump. I will be draining the tank today because the 3d background is being delivered today, I will repair that leak at that time. Besides those two issues everything appears to be operating well. Once the cabinet doors are on this tank will be completely silent, right now theres a slight water trickling sound from the trickle filters.


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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

I got the background installed, spray bar painted, soil in, and fixed the bulkhead fitting leak. I ordered the fluval 3.0 lights today and the bulk of the plants. I will be filling it with water tomorrow to begin the cycling and then lower the level when the plants arrive to plant. I have a pretty good plan in my head and on paper of what I’m looking for, but I’m sure things will be changed a few times before I settle in on something. I couldn’t get good pics with the glare but here you go


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## aquazone (Jul 9, 2003)

Subscribed - you have my attention, also.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Oh my loving everything about this so far.

Just getting better and better.

Looking forward to seeing what plants you are going with.


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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

so with the ADA AS, i am going to ditch the ph controller and just use it as a monitor. With the ph alteration from the soil ( I'm getting about a 1.0 ph drop in 24hrs between my daily water changes) I've decided i will go with a timer for co2 with lights on. I will see how things stabilize in a few months, but for now I will be setting a bubble count to control the c02. Hopefully the potting soil smell in the house subsides after awhile because right now the wifey is starting to make comments.


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## The Bungulo (Aug 28, 2017)

is that potting soil with aqua soil cap? exect insane growth with or without Co2


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Potting Soil, smells almost as good as solder! >


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## RenoGuy (Dec 24, 2017)

jbvamos said:


> so with the ADA AS, i am going to ditch the ph controller and just use it as a monitor. With the ph alteration from the soil ( I'm getting about a 1.0 ph drop in 24hrs between my daily water changes) I've decided i will go with a timer for co2 with lights on. I will see how things stabilize in a few months, but for now I will be setting a bubble count to control the c02. Hopefully the potting soil smell in the house subsides after awhile because right now the wifey is starting to make comments.


Not sure you will be able to count the bubbles for a tank this size. I have a 180 as well and my bubble counter is more like a steady stream. I have no idea how many bubbles that could be. Great work on the setup so far.


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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

The Bungulo said:


> is that potting soil with aqua soil cap? exect insane growth with or without Co2


No, it's power sand layer capped with aquasoil, but it smells just like dirt or potting soil in the house. hopefully once the tank is planted this week it will subside. It's a pretty strong smell in the house right now

Bump:


RenoGuy said:


> Not sure you will be able to count the bubbles for a tank this size. I have a 180 as well and my bubble counter is more like a steady stream. I have no idea how many bubbles that could be. Great work on the setup so far.


 how much co2 are you using in a month? I have a 50lb main tank and two 20lb back up tanks. with my 125gallon setup I was going through a 20lb tank pretty quick. refilling tanks is easy for me, just curious on what to expect. This 180 will have a lot of co2 loss with the trickle filters, but now that I won't be running it 24/7 i'm guessing it will probably be the same usage as my 125.


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## SingAlongWithTsing (Jun 11, 2015)

jbvamos said:


> No, it's power sand layer capped with aquasoil, but it smells just like dirt or potting soil in the house. hopefully once the tank is planted this week it will subside. It's a pretty strong smell in the house right now
> 
> Bump: how much co2 are you using in a month? I have a 50lb main tank and two 20lb back up tanks. with my 125gallon setup I was going through a 20lb tank pretty quick. refilling tanks is easy for me, just curious on what to expect. This 180 will have a lot of co2 loss with the trickle filters, but now that I won't be running it 24/7 i'm guessing it will probably be the same usage as my 125.


i burn through a 20lb in about 3.5 months on mines.

according to my flow meter im at 80ish cc/min. 134 Gall w/ 55 gallon sump, I have a power head on it if it matters. about 20 PSI working pressure. modified cerges reactor.

if i run a co2 line straight from my flow meter to the sump im at 95~100 cc/min, inverted cup method matches this number.

slapping a lid on at least the trickle filter part will reduce some co2 loss


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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

one of my ideas that I have never seen done is i'm going to try and make a waterfall of glosso coming off one of the deep crevices of the back rock wall located on the left side of the tank. once it hits the substrate, it will gradually widen to the front of the tank to about an 18 inch wide area. i'm going to somehow fasten plastic mesh (maybe hot glue?) to the back wall in that crevice for the roots to grow on. I have no idea if this is going to work so if someone has ever tried this i'm open to suggestions. To the left of the glosso will be a stand of red rubins, I absolutely love this sword. to the right of the glosso will be a stand of vallisneria spiralis. behind the drift wood in the picture will be a stand of echinodorus bleheri. a large area in front of the drift wood will be staurogyne repens. there will be a large stand of ludwigia repens on the right rear of the driftwood. I got some java fern that I will attach to areas of the rock wall that have a lot of depth to it, and portions of the driftwood. I also got some rotala willichi that i'm not 100percent certain where i'm going to place it yet. I'm not a good aquascaper so I really would appreciate any suggestions you have to offer.


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## RenoGuy (Dec 24, 2017)

jbvamos said:


> No, it's power sand layer capped with aquasoil, but it smells just like dirt or potting soil in the house. hopefully once the tank is planted this week it will subside. It's a pretty strong smell in the house right now
> 
> Bump: how much co2 are you using in a month? I have a 50lb main tank and two 20lb back up tanks. with my 125gallon setup I was going through a 20lb tank pretty quick. refilling tanks is easy for me, just curious on what to expect. This 180 will have a lot of co2 loss with the trickle filters, but now that I won't be running it 24/7 i'm guessing it will probably be the same usage as my 125.


I use about 10lbs / month. I was using a diy reactor that I made and it worked quite well but i recently switched to a ebay reactor / atomizer (eBay item number:122845143137 )and I couldn't be happier. I am using less co2 and no micro bubbles. My photo period is only 6 hours / day and I dont run co2 at night. My co2 comes on at 6am with a starting ph of 8 - 8.1 and by 7am the ph is at 6.9 - 7. co2 is injected during the day to hild this ph and then shut off at 2pm.


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## sdwindansea (Oct 28, 2016)

RenoGuy said:


> I use about 10lbs / month. I was using a diy reactor that I made and it worked quite well but i recently switched to a ebay reactor / atomizer (eBay item number:122845143137 )and I couldn't be happier. I am using less co2 and no micro bubbles. My photo period is only 6 hours / day and I dont run co2 at night. My co2 comes on at 6am with a starting ph of 8 - 8.1 and by 7am the ph is at 6.9 - 7. co2 is injected during the day to hild this ph and then shut off at 2pm.


I think there is a problem somewhere if you are burning through a 10lb CO2 tank each month. It could be a leak somewhere in your system, an issue with the reactor, something else. Unless your tank is extremely large...


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## RenoGuy (Dec 24, 2017)

sdwindansea said:


> I think there is a problem somewhere if you are burning through a 10lb CO2 tank each month. It could be a leak somewhere in your system, an issue with the reactor, something else. Unless your tank is extremely large...


Not extremely large but 280 gallons with a sump and some off gassing. I suspect i will use less with this new reactor.


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## sdwindansea (Oct 28, 2016)

@RenoGuy - That is extremely large to me, especially when you factor in a sump and I'm comparing it to a 60 gallon. I really have no sense of how long a 10 gallon tank should last with your setup, but you need to start a journal. Would love to see pictures of your tank...and I also want to stop hijacking jbvamos' thread (sorry about that).


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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

Well it’s planted. I’m not completely thrilled with the layout but I knew a lot would be changed in the future so I’m ok with it for now. Most important to me right now is to get this tank stabilized. 
I took a vacation day yesterday to install the lights and plant. The lights never showed up but will be here today. I ended up running a hot water line to mix with the cold for water changes. Not sure what I was thinking, or not thinking in the beginning. I ordered a gla regulator/needle valve setup to replace my old inconsistent cheap setup. It didn’t matter before because I was using a controller, but won’t be now because of the aquasoil. Obviously no fish in it yet so I will just make sure there’s more than enough co2 being injected till the new regulator shows up. I’m most likely moving the reactor to the basement and making it larger with more flow. It’s very loud when I have a lot of water flowing through it with a high co2 input. The gas pressure pushes the water level in the reactor down and the splashing water makes a racket. 
Not sure if this wallichi is going to grow for me here or not. I’ve had luck with it before, but I was on a different water source. I’m on a well now with a kh of 8 but the aquasoil is bringing that way down for now. Time will tell. 
Go easy on my layout! Haha I suck at aquascaping!


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

That aquascape looks good! It may be simple, but you've hit the fundamentals and grouped everything nicely. Once the plants start growing and fill in more you'll have a display to be even more proud of. My only nit-pick is the R. wallichi should be more to the left to make most effective use of the left "third" as a focal point. Basically, divide the tank into thirds length-wise. Plants put down on one of the lines of one of those thirds make strong focal points. As it is, it's just a bit too close to the middle. Other than that, well done!


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## RenoGuy (Dec 24, 2017)

Looks great. I love the background.


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## Rogozhin75 (Aug 15, 2017)

Damn is that a great looking setup! Solid work.


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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

I got the fluval plant 3.0 yesterday and installed. I got 4 lights. The longest they come is 36 inches so I have 2 strips of them. I don’t know what my par is, but I would say it’s medium intensity. All the features are very cool, I’m happy with the purchase, but might get 2 more lights in the future. I will see how the reds in the plants respond. I’ve decided to increase the size of the input to the reactor to 1.25” (the output size of the jaebo pump) before I move the whole setup to the basement. Right now it’s choked down to 3/4 inch and I feel this might help a lot. I will take better pictures of the tank for you guys later now that the lights are installed.


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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

Phil Edwards said:


> That aquascape looks good! It may be simple, but you've hit the fundamentals and grouped everything nicely. Once the plants start growing and fill in more you'll have a display to be even more proud of. My only nit-pick is the R. wallichi should be more to the left to make most effective use of the left "third" as a focal point. Basically, divide the tank into thirds length-wise. Plants put down on one of the lines of one of those thirds make strong focal points. As it is, it's just a bit too close to the middle. Other than that, well done!


thanks for the compliment and advice. if the wallichi grows, i will take your advice


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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

Ok I’m in awe with these lights. I missed sunrise because my kids had baseball games today, but I was able to catch sunset. I have the app set right now for sunrise from 9-11, daytime from 11-6, and sunset from 6-7. I figure that’s only 8 hours of full light which is much less intensity that I used to have. At first I didn’t think the sunset was working because 6pm came and I didn’t notice a difference. It was so gradual and so perfect. The whole mood of the tank changed over that 1 hour period. All the pearling started slowing down, I can’t even explain it except for the sense you get when your sitting outside in the evening and everything just starts getting calmer. What 10 years being out of the hobby makes. 
I did change the plumbing from pump to reactor input from 3/4 to 1 1/4. World of difference now. Much more tunable with the speed of the pump and position of output valves. 
Plants are doing good. Definitely getting settled in. Everything is going well. My only concern is I got some stuff growing on the drift wood, looks kind of like fuzy mold. I will see what it looks like in a month or so.


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## monkeyruler90 (Apr 13, 2008)

Plants look good! and yes I feel you about the sunset/sunrise setting on lights. It's gradual but you notice a difference in the plants as things are ramping down


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

Still looking good! The growth on the wood is natural and happens to nearly everyone. It's nothing to worry about.

Cheers,
Phil


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Phil Edwards said:


> Still looking good! The growth on the wood is natural and happens to nearly everyone. It's nothing to worry about.
> 
> Cheers,
> Phil


Only 1 time... on 1 piece of wood.. did the fuzzy crap give way to a full and complete carpet of BBA. It likely was due to the wood (collected) as there were several pieces of different types making the one root system and only this one piece suffered this fate. Eventually took it out and scrubbed it with a course brush, then removed anything I missed with a scraper, and then soaked it in glut / water solution. It's never happened to me with mopani, spider wood, or purchased driftwood.

Tank looks fantastic. Really first class set up.


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## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

Fascinating, I don't suppose you'd be willing to create a short video?


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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

lots to update from this past week

starting with the most important, the plants, from left to right.
red rubins are doing great, they at least doubled in size and leaf count
glosso is growing vertical, i'm assuming not enough light. I just did a haircut on it down to substrate level. It looks ugly now with all the old original emerged growth. I will give it time, but most likely will be removing it.
italian val had a lot of melting in the beginning, but is rebounding nicely. Lots of healthy new growth starting.
wallichi is holding on, It's growing and looks "ok" but far from perfect
staurogyne repens was doing really good and then I had a section melt on me and i'm not sure why, but the section that melted appears to be showing signs of new healthy growth. I have a couple theories, but so much is changing right now I can't be sure. the rest of it looks good and is growing
java fern is java fern, not much to report
ludwigia repens is doing great, doubled in height, good color. the emeged growth has a ton of roots coming from it,
but i will be topping this soon as it doesnt have far to go till it reaches the surface

had a very minor diatom outbreak but it's almost gone. no real other algae issues

I'm doing 70% water changes everyother day. I'm dosing 8.3 grams of kno3, 2.5grams of kh2p04 and burrs trace mix that greggz went out of his way to help me with right after water change. I wasnt dosing any N and very little P at first because of the aquasoil. Things weren't looking right to me so I started adding N and upped the P from .5 grams to 2.5 grams and things look much better. I will soon be going to full EI schedule with water changes maybe every 4 days. I will be front loading probably 2x EI the day of water change and then normal dose 2x a week. micros i will be adding everyday. c02 is 1.3ph max drop. I had it much higher, but i added 40 amano shrimp to the tank yesterday. They are doing great now, but at first my c02 was too high. They were definately getting gassed. I knew exactly what was happening from past experience so I did a huge water change and lowered the c02. they recovered nicely and are busy at work.

I finally got my GLA regulator. This is a quality piece of equipment compared to my old setup. I ended up moving the reactor to the basement but left the pump where it was. The water enters the pump from the sumps, gets pumped downstairs into the reactor, then back up and splits to the two sumps where it is then pumped into the tank and distributed throughout the tank through the spraybars. I just couldn't handle the sound of boiling water in the reactor. I also made it bigger. It is now 4 inch diameter and 3 feet long. I get no microbubbles now and there is ALOT of c02 and water flowing in and out of this thing. 

I got the cabinet doors this week and have been sanding and spraying the finish and sanding and spraying the finish and sanding and, well you get the idea. they will be done soon and installed.

future plans, I want to get another strip of lights and I want to add a connection for the python gravel vac in the cabinet that will run down to the laundry sink. right now i just turn valves to do the water changes but I will have to eventually start vacuuming once in awhile and don't want to be dealing with hoses stretched across the house. 

so as far as the staurogyne repens melting theories
1. It happened right after i moved the reactor to the basement. I had it up and running quick and i wonder if some of the pvc glue, primer was toxic to it. the part that melted has a spraybar nozzle pointed right at it.
2. Low phosphate. This tank is sucking up P and i'm not sure where it's all going. I recall reading about the aquasoil absorbing it which I don't know if it is true or not.
3. c02 level. not necessarily the c02, but the acidity of the water. At the time of melting I was at a 2.0 ph drop with the c02. My degassed water is 7.5 and the tank water was 5.6. 

anyway, that's where i'm at. things are getting settled in and I'm getting my routine down. overall i am pleased with how things are going

Pics to follow later today


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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

Here you go


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

Looking good! That new growth is awesome.


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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

Finished up the cabinet doors and got them installed. I’m going to put some black weatherstripping around the inside perimeter because with the Blum hinges the doors are slightly raised off the face of the cabinet and some light bleeds past the doors. I want to add crown molding to the top, besides that the cabinet is done. I’ve decided not to add knobs or handles to the doors.


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Great looking cabinet work. Turned out very well. Would have to agree - no handles.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

I love DIY projects like this, and that is one fine example.

Very well done Sir!!!


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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

thanks guys, I'm really pleased with the outcome of the whole project. When i didn't want to sand everything down again for another coat, I powered through and did it. It has 5 coats of poly on it, smooth as glass. To be honest the cabinet kicked my ass. It was alot of work, the thing is huge, 7.5feet tall by 8foot wide. that's alot of sanding!

I bought some ar mini and Clinopodium brownei from burr740. They look beautiful in the pictures. I'm sure soon the tank will be a cluster f...k of all different species because I love growing different plants.

I had some more melting of the staurogyne repens. Not as bad as the first time, but a couple plants vanished like a fart in the wind. My go to thing to do when something happens or doesn't seem right is I do a huge water change and add all ferts back right after. I really think if I have not been doing this, all of the staurogyne repens would be a pile of mush on the aquasoil right now. So far so good with the rest of it. I'm hoping once the roots get established it won't be so tempermental. I spent big bucks on this plant, I'm doing everything I can to save the rest of it. 

I have alot less pearling now that the co2 isn't cranked to the hilt anymore. I'm trying to find the spot where the shrimp are not stressed. It's obvious soon as they don't like the concentration they stop working and start swimming around the tank looking for an escape route. Im wondering if I can get them accustomed to higher amounts over a period of time. I really would like a 1.4-1.5 max ph drop. I was way higher than that before I added the shrimp.


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

If you end up losing the Stauro let me know and I'll send you some.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

jbvamos said:


> I had some more melting of the staurogyne repens. Not as bad as the first time, but a couple plants vanished like a fart in the wind. My go to thing to do when something happens or doesn't seem right is I do a huge water change and add all ferts back right after. I really think if I have not been doing this, all of the staurogyne repens would be a pile of mush on the aquasoil right now.


Don't feel bad. I just melted one of the most beautiful bunches of S. Repens I've ever seen (from Phil Edwards above).

Who knows if it's the aqua soil? Mine is inert substrate, and it just disintegrated. Mystery for sure, but the more I read, the more I see it isn't that unusual. Like you, I've left the stems/roots and we'll see what happens.

And I know what you are talking about with the sanding. When I did mine I also put on LOTS of coats. Takes stamina that is for sure.


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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

Phil Edwards said:


> If you end up losing the Stauro let me know and I'll send you some.


that's awesome! thankyou

Bump:


Greggz said:


> Don't feel bad. I just melted one of the most beautiful bunches of S. Repens I've ever seen (from Phil Edwards above).
> 
> Who knows if it's the aqua soil? Mine is inert substrate, and it just disintegrated. Mystery for sure, but the more I read, the more I see it isn't that unusual. Like you, I've left the stems/roots and we'll see what happens.
> 
> And I know what you are talking about with the sanding. When I did mine I also put on LOTS of coats. Takes stamina that is for sure.


yeah it even melted on tom barr a couple times. He believes it's from a change in conditions of the tank. It sheds it's leaves as a survival mode but the stem and roots remain unaffected. It should eventually grow back but it's a slow process. Time will tell


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## AdamRT (Jan 23, 2018)

The tank looks great JB! Super clean plumbing, and I actually think you will be extremely happy with the aquascape once it fills in. 

Don’t worry too much about the stauro melting, most of it comes with emersed growth and I’ve seen it melt in just about every set up imaginable. Something similar always seems to happen to me with blyxa japonica, but as long as there are roots it’s always grown back in once the old growth melted away. 

Just a few suggestions on the scape (for what they’re worth lol), I’d move the front-most walichi a little farther back, plant some crypts at the base of the driftwood inbetween the tangles, and maybe a little tricoydle Japan in a spot that it can creep up the wood. In place of the walachi that was at the very front, try alternathii, cardinal plant, blyxa japonica, or bonsai rotala (true rotala indica). As everything grows in it will provide a much more natural and dynamic transition with a nice color contrast. You could also take a black lava rock or other neutral stone and use it to create a slight gradation in height in front of where the walichii is now. If you go with a midground plant in front of the walichii around the stone (especially blyxa) it will really accentuate the appearance of different levels of the substrate. If you don’t like the look of the stone you could easily hide it with moss like fissidens or Riccia, or plants like Anubias petite or buce. Any of these would provide more color and texture contrast and hide the rock. I see so many tanks with great potential miss out on an opportunity to take it to the next level because the substrate is completely uniform and flat, when just adding 1-2 decent rocks in the right spot would give the impression of a natural looking uneven substrate as the stem plants will in behind and around the rocks. 

I’ll see if I can find a good example of what I mean to share. 

Again, just a suggestion- the scape is going to look amazing either way as it grows in.

Bump: Adding some mid ground plants in front of the ludwigia all the way to the right would help hide the “air roots” that grow at each lower node and provide for a smoother transition. You could use crypts or dwarf sag for this or bonsai rotala (which would blend nicely with the ludwigia and really keep the transition subtle), or add another stone in front of the ludwigia and fill in around it with blyxa (a combination of bonsai rotala surrounding a stone, and blyxa in front of that would look amazing).


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## AdamRT (Jan 23, 2018)

I couldn’t orientate this pic correctly but the rock at the bottom (which should be the left side of the tank) was added to give the illusion of higher substrate behind it. As the Val and ludwigia has grown in behind it and the cardinal plants and pinnatifada have filled in around it, the effect has gotten much stronger. And all I had to do was drop the rock in front of the stem plants and plant some new ones on the sides- no need to disrupt the substrate or dig anything up. There are tons of better examples out there, but this is the best I could find from one of my tanks.


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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

AdamRT said:


> I couldn’t orientate this pic correctly but the rock at the bottom (which should be the left side of the tank) was added to give the illusion of higher substrate behind it. As the Val and ludwigia has grown in behind it and the cardinal plants and pinnatifada have filled in around it, the effect has gotten much stronger. And all I had to do was drop the rock in front of the stem plants and plant some new ones on the sides- no need to disrupt the substrate or dig anything up. There are tons of better examples out there, but this is the best I could find from one of my tanks.


thanks for all the suggestions! I need all i can get when it comes to aquascaping. The picture of your tank looks awesome, nice job


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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

Lots to update, I waited too long. 
I added a flow meter with 10-100 scale. It wasn’t a high enough scale. I then got the 30-200 scale. This would have worked perfect in the beginning but the aquasoil is losing its buffering capacity already from all my large water changes and I’m using a lot more co2 now. I’m right around the 200cc mark currently for a peak 1.4 ph drop. 
I removed all the wood from the tank for 2 reasons. First being I hate tannin colored water and 2 I’m having some minor issues with new growth and I’m eliminating every possible variable I can. I bought the large piece of wood from eBay that came from some stream in West Virginia. No idea what it is or anything so out it went. I’m sure it’s fine, but never really liked it anyway and it takes up too much real estate. 
For the issues I’m having you can see them in the custom micro mix thread. 
Tank is basically doing great. It went through the diatom phase and has been smooth sailing since as far as algae is concerned. Very very stable. 
I had bought 100 cardinal tetras from a lfs and they ended up with ich. I have 9 left that I saved by raising tank temp to 87 degrees for 10 days. I didn’t want to add any chemicals to the tank and just took the loss. Currently there’s only 10 ottos a dozen or so Amano shrimp. 10 Nerite snails and a very expensive 9 cardinals.


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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

Scape looks nothing like when it started. It’s not really even a scape, just a large tank with a bunch of plants for now till I figure out where I want everything. Plants I ditched are most swords and the glosso. I never liked glosso, not sure why I bought it. Phisless and burr740 sold me a lot of plants. Some new additions are lobelia cardinalis small form, ambulia, hygro polysperma, ar mini, erio Vietnam, ludwigia Rubin, acmella repens couple more I got to look up how to spell hahaha. 
Some pics of the changes to follow


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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

Here is the reactor relocated down in the crawl space. It was too loud for my taste and not big enough for under the tank. It’s 4 inch diameter and as long as I could make it. Works great. Also the 30-200 flow meter which is about maxed out. I think you can get a larger scale without buying the whole meter, I have to contact Dwyer.


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Thats a nice looking reactor. Where the CO2 goes in seems low though. Do you get any bubbles in the tank?


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I had a similar experience with Cardinals. Went to Neons... also had problems after reaching a group of 300 (out of probably 500). Then had something start wiping them out. Probably have no more than 50 now. I'd love to see the recent pics. As long as plant mass is good you can change up the scape. I'm sure it looks better than you are thinking


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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

No bubbles in the tank. It returns to the dual sumps first anyway and then pumped to the tank (closed loop). The first reactor I built I used clear pvc and I could see what was going on. The co2 stream would just rise to the top of the reactor and no bubbles would be blown out the bottom from the input being so low. My theory building it was mine as well get the co2 dissolving as soon as possible, that’s why I put it on the bottom.


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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

Yeah that’s a big loss for you. [censored][censored][censored][censored]ty breeders, inbred crap. Was thinking about ordering from jack wattley discus online. They got them for $2 a cardinal. Not sure if you were ever into discus, but they are well known, at least they were many years ago when I was into discus. I’m probably going to go with some rams so my kids could experience the breeding.


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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

Here’s how it stands right now, I will go thru pics and update as it got to this point.


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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

So I’ve been having problems with twisted, distorted leaves on the ar mini and the wallichi would grow then stunt and send off side shoots. Some stems looked ok some looked wretched. When all the cardinals died I cranked up the temp to 87, put a uv sterilizer in each sump and was NOT anal about finding all the dead fish. I did pick them out when I saw them and would pull them out of the trickle filter prefilters every couple of days, but there were dozens I never got out. During this time the wallichi took off like a bat out of hell and looked great. I don’t know if it was the high temp increasing metabolism, the uv lights doing something to the trace doses or all the extra ammonia. After the fish deaths, lowering of temps and uv removal it stunted again. I cut it all down to stumps. I’m currently raising my macros and will see what happens. The stumps are showing signs of life, so who knows. I was thinking about dosing urea since my fish load is so low. What do you guys think?


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Holy smokes that looks fantastic! I actually have a 75 gallon with Rams, Rummynose, and Bloodfins. It's my favorite tank, but it would be a mission to break down both, catch all the fish, put them in a holding container, rescape each tank, and all of that. I would probably still do it, but both tanks have finally grown in some. Rams is going to be awesome. I'll tell you this... purchased Rams from various LFS so many times. Sometimes they dont make it a week. The group I got from CoralBandit are the healthiest most gorgeous I've ever had. 6 fish turned out to be 3 pairs. Each pair has spawned at least once in the 6-8 weeks I've had them. Mainstream Rams are just garbage. CoralBandit is on here and Aquabid. I'm probably going to do Moliwe Kribesnsis in this tank simply because it's the other dwarf that he breeds.
Your tank is looking tremendous!


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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

Thanks man. I’m going away for a week this month, when I get back I planned on getting the rams. I will check out your recommendation. There’s a place here in jersey that specializes in discus, rams, etc I want to check out too. Showroom is by appointment only. Any issues with them fighting with 3 breeding pairs in the tank? Do you have rocks for them to spawn on? The real thing I’m concerned about is I don’t have a sand substrate for them to sift through.


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## Mike A. (Jan 6, 2018)

Still can't quote things here... grrrr

@jbvamos, they don't really sift all that much that I've seen even in tanks with sand. Which I did originally for the same reason but wasn't really necessary. At least not like you may be thinking as the only way that they'll feed like some other true sifters. They do pick food out of the substrate but seem just fine doing that in tanks with Eco-Complete, etc. They'll eat pretty much whatever wherever once they're settled in and used to what you're feeding. Top, middle, bottom, flakes, pellets, micro-wafers, live, frozen, algae wafers, whatever. Mine have never been very picky other than a little maybe when first transferred in. If it's food and they're hungry, which is usually, they'll eat it. I wouldn't worry too much about that part. Temp and pH are more important in their case I think.


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## AdamRT (Jan 23, 2018)

The deformed growth you’re describing sounds like heat stress. I had something very similar happen when I tried to convert what had been a 90 gallon community tank with a temp of 76 to a discus tank with a temp of 86 I knew I was going to lose some plants, but I kept them in so I could see what their breaking point was as I slowly increased the temp. Most completely sh#% the bed between 82 and 84F. 

If you’ve got the temp back down, just trim the funky growth and the new growth should revert back to normal. 

Sucks about the cardinals- they can be tricky but adding 100 fish at once, even small fish like cardinals or neons is going to shock the system a little. unless they came from a planted tank with injected co2, the change in water parameters coupled with even a small spike in ammonia is enough to cause some devastation. Before I add my permanent fish to the 120 I’m currently working on, I’m going to toss in a few convict cichlids to jump start the bio filter. It’s a tried and true method for sw guys, and I figure the principle is the same. Maybe consider adding the next round in groups of 25 per week?

The other thing to consider is adjusting your ei dosing to reflect the rapid increase in ammonia and the more gradual increase in nitrate and phosphates that accompanies an increased bioload. Between the increased nutrients from the fish and the reduced intake by the plants caused by lowering your co2, there might have been a pretty substantial spike in nutrients in the water column that was too much for the cardinals to handle. 

You could try adding some bacteria to offset this spike next time you add fish. Not a silver bullet, but it couldn’t hurt. I wouldn’t give up on cardinals just yet if thats what you want in the tank... even if you lose some initially, those that survive will do well for you.


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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

Just to clarify, the deaths and high temps were weeks ago. Plants did fine during the high temps, if anything more growth. I was simply bringing up the point to describe how the struggling stunted wallichi took off and grew healthy during that period. 
As far as the deaths, tank has Amano shrimp and ottos that went unaffected during the whole ordeal. Highly doubt it was tank issues and more likely a bad batch of fish. Thankyou for your points though.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

My Rams still get along pretty well. When a pair has eggs they keep others away, but the tetras are their main focus. Absolutely no bullying or anything.


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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

The Dude1 said:


> My Rams still get along pretty well. When a pair has eggs they keep others away, but the tetras are their main focus. Absolutely no bullying or anything.


 do you have rocks for them to lay eggs on?


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Yes there are stones and very large pieces of driftwood. I'm going to try to place small slate pieces on the areas that they have chosen for spawning. Line of sight breaks, plant cover, and defendable area seems like the primary concern.


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## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

Tank looks really good. Nice work.


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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

New growth is starting to look healthier. I’m still changing about 200 gallons a week. (100 gallons twice a week). To change a 100 gallons takes less than 15minutes the way I have it setup. It would be faster but my water pressure out the tap sucks. At water change I now add 15ppm K and 10ppm calcium sulfate. I still have to dose large amounts of P to keep a reasonable amount in the water column. I’m dosing about 5ppm every other day to have about a 2ppm reading. I’ve just been monitoring N, and I don’t really have to add much at all. Tests read more on the orange scale than the red with only adding about 10ppm per week. I’m dosing the latest version of burrs mix everyday at .15fe and that’s it. I was adding more iron on top of that and cut that out. Lots of changes so not sure what has helped, but that was my plan. Once everything looks healthy for awhile I will start putting things on the chopping block like the Ca and see if it was really needed or not. Some current pics as of today. Ar mini is starting to straighten out.


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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

Pearling has increased too


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

I've got say, this is a quick start for a tank. Easy to forget it's only a couple months old.

Got a feeling it's only to get better and better.

Nice work and keep the updates coming.


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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

Greggz said:


> I've got say, this is a quick start for a tank. Easy to forget it's only a couple months old.
> 
> Got a feeling it's only to get better and better.
> 
> Nice work and keep the updates coming.


I contribute the easy start to a few essential things. First being large and frequent water changes. Second is staying on top of fertilizer parameters which was difficult for me with the aquasoil, The primary one being co2 and then P. As the aquasoil is losing it's buffering capacity and plant mass is increasing I need to keep increasing my co2 rate. I have about tripled my rate since the start of the tank. I'm attempting to correct any issue while it is still minor. I have found from past experience that if you notice things early and correct quickly, the plants respond just as quickly. It's when an issue such as the new growth issues i was experiencing go by for awhile that the plants take longer to recover. When i see anything "off", I do a huge water change and reset everything. I don't believe it takes weeks to see a positive change if you catch it quick enough. For me, it's more like days, if not hours to see a positive change. 
I started a 40 gallon with aquasoil for trimmings and to see what would happen if I didn't stay on top of things as intensely as i did with this tank. The tank is a mess with different types of algae. Not horrible, but far from algae free like this 180 was from the start. co2 is even higher in the 40 gallon too. I could pretty much guarantee it's because of lack of P. The aquasoil completely drains the water column of any and all amounts of P within less than one photoperiod even after dosing 5ppm. The first month of the 180 i was dosing 35ppm of P a week. I'm not sure how people have healthy plants that are attached to wood or rocks in a tank with fresh aquasoil because I couldn't keep any measurable amount in the water column without massive dosing. I have alot of the same plants in the 40 that are in the 180, they look half as healthy and the only real difference is i'm only adding EI levels of P.


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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

@The Dude1 I ordered 8 German blue rams from coral bandit. They will be here Tuesday. 

I had a glitch with my 2 month old gla regulator Friday afternoon. I just got done cleaning the prefilters on the trickle filters and I looked at the ph controller and noticed ph was .2 higher then it normallly is. I went downstairs and looked at the flow meter and it would drop to zero, raise backup, drop to zero, raise back up. I’m not sure what happened, but it returned to normal after a few minutes and hasn’t happened since. I guess I will reach out to them and see what they say. 

Saturday I decided to reconnect the ph controller to the co2 solenoid because the aquasoil lost almost all its buffering capacity already. I guess due to all my large frequent water changes. I’m fine with that and actually welcome it. 

Everything else is just cruising along, looking forward to the new fish.


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## MrT. (May 21, 2018)

Wow that is one beautiful Aquarium, cabinet and plants!


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

What you have accomplished in this tank is just insane. I wouldn't think it could be done if I hadn't seen it. 


You are going to LOVE his Rams and they are going to thrive in that tank!! I am impressed every morning I see them. They are so healthy and vibrant. Once I get lighting figured out and another big heater and inkbird controller I'm going to start stocking my 150 with GBR fry. I'm slowly going to convert my main display tank to GBR's (and maybe Discus down the road) as I find myself sitting on the treadmill in the exercise room watching them maybe three times as much as my other tanks. I dont know if this is common place but mine will race and shove one another to take black worms and bloodworms out of my fingers.

Make sure you post some pics of them!!


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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

The Dude1 said:


> What you have accomplished in this tank is just insane. I wouldn't think it could be done if I hadn't seen it.
> 
> 
> You are going to LOVE his Rams and they are going to thrive in that tank!! I am impressed every morning I see them. They are so healthy and vibrant. Once I get lighting figured out and another big heater and inkbird controller I'm going to start stocking my 150 with GBR fry. I'm slowly going to convert my main display tank to GBR's (and maybe Discus down the road) as I find myself sitting on the treadmill in the exercise room watching them maybe three times as much as my other tanks. I dont know if this is common place but mine will race and shove one another to take black worms and bloodworms out of my fingers.
> ...


I had a 125 gallon fully planted discus tank many years ago. It is a sight to be seen and if you go that route, I'm sure you will love it. I was into wild discus, my favorite being blue and green tefe. I never really took a liking to all the crazy strains they have out there. I really miss that tank and was contemplating going that route for this tank, this is the reason for my overkill filtration system and water change setup that requires just turning valves.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

jbvamos said:


> I had a 125 gallon fully planted discus tank many years ago.


Pics????????????????????????


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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

Unfortunately it was before I had anything digital. I have regular pictures somewhere, where that is will take lots of searching. With my move/ divorce many things got lost and or thrown out. I will see if I could dig something up and take a picture of a picture hahaha

The tank was in my partially finished basement with a lazy boy chair smack dab in front of it. The countless hours I spent sitting staring at it could be a reason for the divorce!


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## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

Just found this ! Very nice !
LOVE the Universal Rocks !
I have built my 75g paladarium with a 4+ foot tall UR background . Their products look so real I had to get some of their rocks also..Seems silly buying and paying so much for silicone rocks ,but they will never scratch my new glass and match the background well I am very pleased with them. Troy[ @The Dude1 ] is correct that the rams will love your tank !
I can't wait to see them in your setup.
Awesome wood work. You have made what I call 'museum quality ' set up. Go for the crown molding...I made my 180 cabinet and canopy to match my living rooms moldings...
Having an awesome stand and canopy definitely add to the beauty of aquariums .


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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

Coralbandit said:


> Just found this ! Very nice !
> LOVE the Universal Rocks !
> I have built my 75g paladarium with a 4+ foot tall UR background . Their products look so real I had to get some of their rocks also..Seems silly buying and paying so much for silicone rocks ,but they will never scratch my new glass and match the background well I am very pleased with them. Troy[ @The Dude1 ] is correct that the rams will love your tank !
> I can't wait to see them in your setup.
> ...


Thanks man, appreciate the compliments. Yes the background is really amazing. Looking foward to getting your rams, I will be at the post office when they open tomorrow and they should be acclimating by 9 a.m. if all goes well.


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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

Got the rams yesterday from @Coralbandit. . I bought 8 and he sent me 10. Thanks! They look fantastic! Spent an hour acclimating them in a bucket. While they were acclimating I did a large water change to get the co2 level down. I kept the lighting on the moonlight setting for a couple hours after introducing them to the tank. They all accepted the new tank well. I was concerned with one female of the larger pair but after a few hours she was acting normal. There’s 5 pairs ranging from 5 to 8 months. The older pairs have great color. I increased my ph setting on controller to only have a .9-1.0 ph drop and will return it to 1.3 over the next couple days.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

They look beautiful! I was concerned about a smaller female in my group for the longest time. I would go into that room and count the numbers of Rams several times a day. I was SURE with 5 larger Rams that she would be targeted. Nope... she had a boyfriend (second largest male) within a week. I think 3 weeks later she laid her first batch of eggs. As you can see I'm very pleased to finally have healthy Rams! You will really enjoy their dynamic. Have you settled on other stocking yet? Still considering Discus? I was actually trying to think through your sump / output design last night. I'd like to do something like that when I set up my larger tank.... eventually


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## SingAlongWithTsing (Jun 11, 2015)

will we be getting an FTS soon :grin2:?

also wondering if you still have the math for your outflow written down somewhere, im interested in trying something similar on my tank

edit: are those nozzles just drip irrigation fittings?


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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

The Dude1 said:


> They look beautiful! I was concerned about a smaller female in my group for the longest time. I would go into that room and count the numbers of Rams several times a day. I was SURE with 5 larger Rams that she would be targeted. Nope... she had a boyfriend (second largest male) within a week. I think 3 weeks later she laid her first batch of eggs. As you can see I'm very pleased to finally have healthy Rams! You will really enjoy their dynamic. Have you settled on other stocking yet? Still considering Discus? I was actually trying to think through your sump / output design last night. I'd like to do something like that when I set up my larger tank.... eventually


 Probably going to get the cardinal population back up, a school of rummynose tetras and some cory's if I can find a good source for these fish. I'm tired of the LFS junk. Really don't think I am going the discus route anytime soon, but one never knows. 
Sump design works well. The jaebo pumps are silent! If you do get them, get a more powerful one than you need and run it at a lower setting, it really quiets them down to nothing. I will never buy anything but DC pumps again. Be sure to add a hot/cold water supply and set things up for water changes so you just have to turn a valve. I drilled the back of the tank as low as I could and put in a bulkhead fitting for the drain. I also have a hook up in the drain with a quick disconnect and primer for a python for the occassional vacuuming. I've only vacuumed the tank a few times in the beginning and haven't had a need to. I just drain and fill- takes very little time to change 100 gallons.


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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

SingAlongWithTsing said:


> will we be getting an FTS soon ?
> 
> also wondering if you still have the math for your outflow written down somewhere, im interested in trying something similar on my tank
> 
> edit: are those nozzles just drip irrigation fittings?




There is a formula for the spraybar, I will find it for you. basically you want the size of all the holes added up to be slightly smaller than the spraybar circumference. This will result in equal flow out of each hole. The return line from the pump should be the same diameter as the spray bar. So you can have a few large diameter holes or many smaller diameter holes in the spray bar. If done correctly, It does work great. 

The nozzles are just polyflo tubing fittings. We use them at work for airspeed/altimeter connections etc on aircraft. Mcmaster Carr is a good source for stuff like this. https://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-plastic-compression-tube-fittings/=1dv8w5h
I used the 1/8 pipe to 1/4 inch od tube. So you will drilll and tap the pvc spray bar for a 1/8 npt fitting and not use the compression end that comes with the fitting.


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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

@SingAlongWithTsing https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/20-diy/699865-confused-diy-spraybar-holes-size-spacing.html

I'm pretty sure this is the thread I got the formula from. I used one inch pvc and drilled 15 holes .1875 in diameter to accept the fittings i referenced. I have two pumps so I made 2 spray bars, each one has 15 nozzles for a total of 30 nozzles


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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

Just did a head count and still got 10! There’s one pair that’s digging depressions in the soil, I’m expecting some spawning soon! Sometimes the rams are hard to locate due to the plant mass and I panic- shell shocked from the mass cardinal die off. The remaining 8 out of 87 cardinals have been holding steady for the past few weeks. Shrimp, snails and ottos have been great from the start. CO2 is currently at 1.2 drop with no stress at all to them. I will be increasing it to 1.3 soon or roughly 50ppm. I was at 1.3 before the ram addition and decreased Co2 to 1-1.1 for the 1st day then 1.2 today.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

What are the goals of this tank? It kinda looks like a grow out tank with all the different foregrounds. You should probably choose one foreground you like to make it into an aquascape.


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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

asteriod said:


> What are the goals of this tank? It kinda looks like a grow out tank with all the different foregrounds. You should probably choose one foreground you like to make it into an aquascape.


 no goals, just attempting to grow healthy plants. Your right though, my skills are horrible when it comes to aquascaping. Got some suggestions?


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Hey I like the look. 

Creates a nice tranquil atmosphere with a splash of color, and I like where you are going with it.

And healthy plants sure help make any scape look good, and it seems you have that handled already.


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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

so my 2 month old gla pro-1 regulator has some serious issues. It will allow co2 to flow and then it stops, allow it to flow and then stops. It's doing this continuously now. I disconnected everything down stream of the regulator setup to make sure it wasn't anything on my end like a failing check valve or something. The regulator makes a faint high pitched noise when the flow starts backup again. I've tried all different working pressures and nothing really helps. Higher working pressure helps a little, but not much. So right now I have my flow set at about double to try and average out the co2 flow when it decides to drop off. I'm using my controller now (wasn't before with the fresh aquasoil) so what i am doing with the increased flow is working, but this really sucks. I emailed them with the symptoms and explained that I can't send this for repair because my other regulator (15 years old) is being used on another tank. How come people can't build things that last anymore? I just changed my 30 year old hot water heater out of fear it was going to start leaking. Who want's to wager it won't last a third of the time the other one did without issues.

On a different note, I just mixed up a new batch of traces with:
.15 fe
.03 mn
,04 B
.04 Zn
.0013 Mo
.002 Cu
.0005 Ni

I expect better results with the new fe:mn ratio and have been suspecting this for a couple months. Time will tell


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## Wobblebonk (Feb 13, 2018)

I just accept that I only have grow out tanks with random hardscape. I'm happy if critters and plants aren't dying (outside of when I do it intentionally...)

Personally I'm not a fan of the GLA regulators, my only regulator failure was a GLA. Also +300$ for dual stage (over an already expensive pro ss)... I feel like it should look like a work of art for 625 with vernier handles on the metering valves and whatnot while it still looks like a cheapo reg. Also 20$ for an indicator led? Really?


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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

Gla thinks it’s the check valve in the bubble counter, but they also said this which makes no sense to me. I understand it as if their reg isn’t designed for large tanks that require lots of flow?

“Using a flow meter on a regulator with a large diaphragm like this would not be ideal. Im sure you could DIY a flow meter easily but you cold end up with a dirty diaphragm. If flow is to high you can freeze and prematurely tear the diaphragm. We have use many flow meters in large installations, but we dont use the same regulator. It has a much smaller brass diaphragm with only 1/4" of neoprene around the edge of the plate. Bubble counters in general are for reference, they serve no other purpose besides protecting the regulator from moisture. Cleaning the bubble counter and adjusting your check valve is easy once you get in your first go.”

I think i'm in the market for a dualstage regulator with just the solenoid valve. I don't need the metering valve or any attached bubble counter. any recommendations?


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## Wobblebonk (Feb 13, 2018)

That sounds like a diy job... I'm not sure I know of any that come with just a solenoid but it's not too difficult to assemble.


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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

Here’s a 37 tall I set up for trimmings and to be used as a quarantine tank if I ever need it. Aquasoil sub, 2 strips of fluval plant 3.0, in tank co2 diffuser. 
After the initial water change schedule ada recommends, I’ve changed no water and top it off with distilled water. I dose 0 ferts in this tank except for a splash of traces every so often. It went thru a pretty serious algae phase in the beginning but cleaned itself up nicely. Only intervention by me was tossing ratty bottoms and replanting the nice tops. I’m curious to see how long it will take for deficiencies to start to appear.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I'm sorry to hear about your troubles with GLA. I was discussing this situation with another member recently. I had Alan Le build my first regulator and he is building me a second. I dont want to retype the ENTIRE discussion (it is in Discusluv's 33 gallon build), but he builds his reg's with top quality parts and stands behind them no matter what. My dual stage regulator without the second Parker needle valve was around $380 and it is a work of art. All stainless... it is simply fantastic. I can give you his contact info via PM if you like. He is building regulators for 2 other members now.. well... probably done by now. 

Only thing I would check before sending that GLA crap back is the solenoid. Wires can develop poor connections and result in issues like you are having.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

The Dude1 said:


> Only thing I would check before sending that GLA crap back is the solenoid. Wires can develop poor connections and result in issues like you are having.


To be fair, myself and many others have had great experiences with GLA. Three years of use and mine is rock solid. I've spoken them before and they seem like a great group of guys. 

I'm sure any make will have a problem creep up now and then. It's how it's taken care of that matters, so we'll see how this goes.


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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

The Dude1 said:


> I'm sorry to hear about your troubles with GLA. I was discussing this situation with another member recently. I had Alan Le build my first regulator and he is building me a second. I dont want to retype the ENTIRE discussion (it is in Discusluv's 33 gallon build), but he builds his reg's with top quality parts and stands behind them no matter what. My dual stage regulator without the second Parker needle valve was around $380 and it is a work of art. All stainless... it is simply fantastic. I can give you his contact info via PM if you like. He is building regulators for 2 other members now.. well... probably done by now.
> 
> Only thing I would check before sending that GLA crap back is the solenoid. Wires can develop poor connections and result in issues like you are having.


 I will definitely take his info, thankyou. The problem is the built in check valve in the bubble counter like they stated as far as I can tell. I have not disassembled it yet but have temporarily gotten around the situation by increasing my working pressure up to 45psi. When I do get a chance to take it apart ( every time I have available time the co2 has been flowing) I’m probably going to gut that section of the bubble counter because I don’t need it. There’s never even a drop of moisture in the bubble counter considering I use a flow meter now and I have two other check valves in the system. Or if I could figure out an adapter I would completely lose the whole bubble counter. I definitely would like to invest in a dual stage regulator and keep this as a backup so I have something in case of another issue.


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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

Greggz said:


> To be fair, myself and many others have had great experiences with GLA. Three years of use and mine is rock solid. I've spoken them before and they seem like a great group of guys.
> 
> I'm sure any make will have a problem creep up now and then. It's how it's taken care of that matters, so we'll see how this goes.


It's just frustrating because it seems like the new normal is for things not to last very long anymore. Almost like we are a disposable society now. Build cheap, buy cheap, and throw it away when it breaks. I'm talking more than regulators, from washing machines to lawn tractors. I know parts fail out of your control, but it just seems like it's way more frequent than it used to be.

One thing that I found very unprofessional from them during an email exchange was that they were arguing with me about the amount of flow my tank needs. I explained that I don't use the bubble counter because it serves no purpose because it is just a constant stream. They told me this isn't normal and went as far as sending me pictures of a 5000 gallon tank that uses one diffuser and a bubble counter. They made multiple mentions of amano's tanks and how my flow was not normal and I should reduce my light if i need that much flow. I don't feel i need to change anything on my tank, I just want a regulator that will flow co2 when the solenoid is energized, wether that amount is 2cc/min or 200 ccc/min. I also don't want to be away and be worried about the co2 not flowing, that's why i would like to eliminate this built in check valve.

to be fair, I don't know who I was dealing with at GLA, it could have been a new employee without much experience


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

I guess if you didn’t pay someone $380+ @The Dude1 considers it crap.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

jbvamos said:


> to be fair, I don't know who I was dealing with at GLA, it could have been a new employee without much experience


I don't understand what they were getting at. How would the check valve in the bubble counter stop the flow? Maybe I'm missing something. Seems more like a bad solenoid. 

And if I was just using the needle valve, I could have it easily set at over 200cc/min. Something doesn't make sense here.

With mine, I keep it pretty much wide open and use the flow meter valve to regulate. Now my bubble counter is still there, just been empty for years. 

Anyway, I would try to set up a call and speak to Orlando. Something doesn't seem right, and they should be able to get this solved. The amount of CO2 we are moving is minuscule compared to just about anything else.


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## Wobblebonk (Feb 13, 2018)

asteriod said:


> I guess if you didn’t pay someone $380+ @The Dude1 considers it crap.


I mean, you don't get that much reg for 380$ from GLA. and dual stage doesn't start till $625, admittedly you get a nice long warranty and it was the check valve that failed in mine too, but since I believe check valves are inherently prone to failure I'd prefer my regs to not have the built in check valve/bubble counter and just use inline check valves. I haven't had to service my co2art yet maybe the service is much worse but the warranty is actually longer for like half the price (or less since their first 2 stage is like $150 but let's call it half). Certainly it would be slightly more annoying having to ship it back to the EU instead of florida. I don't even think dual stage is really that necessary for most planted tanks, I just think this 








looks so much better for a similar price to the PRO-1-SS even if the warranty is "I better fix it myself", the individual parts are much better imo. 
Getting it fixed was about as enjoyable as something like that can be, but I had already gotten a replacement while it was getting fixed so I resold it and afaik it's worked fine for the new owner.

Oh and I'm still mad about a 20$ indicator led, though my indicator led is blocked by the giant metering valve handle.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Wobblebonk said:


> I mean, you don't get that much reg for 380$ from GLA. and dual stage doesn't start till $625, admittedly you get a nice long warranty


Again, to be fair, that $380.00 also includes a 5lb tank, perma-seal, check valves, tubing, solenoid, bubble counter, etc. 

Really everything most need to get started. 

And I really don't have any horse in this race. My GLA has been rock solid, but I would guess most people would say the same about any brand they purchased. 

Let's face it, they all pretty much work as intended, providing a small flow of CO2. Just saying I honestly doubt there is that much difference between brands.


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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

Greggz said:


> jbvamos said:
> 
> 
> > to be fair, I don't know who I was dealing with at GLA, it could have been a new employee without much experience
> ...


 it’s definately not the solenoid. The check valve consists of a seat, a spring and the hat, or whatever you call it. This “hat” is adjustable to put more or less pressure on the spring which is what adjusts the “cracking” pressure. If it is tightened all the way, the working pressure won’t be enough to release it from the seat and no co2 will flow and if it’s too loose it won’t seal off the water backflow. I guess it can get gummed up or something causing it to stick and not allowing the co2 to flow. This is why raising my working pressure up to 45-50 psi fixed the issue. If it was the solenoid, no matter how high I set the working pressure wouldn’t have resolved it. When I pull it apart, I will just remove those pieces so it can never happen. I might get a chance to do it tonight.


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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

@Greggz here’s a breakdown of the check valve if you ever need it, it’s a little more complicated then your standard check valve


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Screw GLA  I'll never buy another one


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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

burr740 said:


> Screw GLA <a href="http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/images/smilie/icon_smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" ></a> I'll never buy another one


 seems like people either love them or hate them, guess it depends if you ended up with a good reg or a bad one. Once I gut the check valve, I’m sure mine will be fine. I can see how this check valve could be a result of all the inconsistent flow reports, depends on the mood of the check valve if it decides to open up all the way or not.


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## jbvamos (Mar 18, 2018)

There were some metal pieces left over from them machining the check valve base that were never cleaned out properly. Attached picture is the biggest piece I found. The smaller ones fell and I couldn’t find them. I reassembled the bubble counter without the check valve guts. When I turned the co2 back on, my flow was about 80 cc/min higher then where it was before cleaning out the metal. It must have been preventing the check valve from fully opening and intermittently cause it to stick and unstick. Hopefully no more issues with this reg.


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