# Cleaning Fish



## DiegoBedoyaVision (Mar 30, 2017)

I currently have a clean up crew in my 55 G tank but I think I may have gone wrong somewhere lol. Thanks to the information I'm learning from these forums I've been learning. Just wanted a general area where I could get these answers.

Which are the best algae eating fish or cleaning fish in general (doesn't have to be algae)?

I currently have Plecos, SAE and CAE (bought those by accident, I'll get rid of them soon)

I've wanted to get Amano Shrimp but for some reason Shrimp don't last long in my tank. I always test out with like 15 ghost shrimp but they nearly all die within 3 days. So haven't made the decision to buy expensive shrimp yet. Also afraid someone in my tank might eat them lol.

Thoughts/tips?


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## Dman911 (Nov 24, 2016)

I like Nerites and otto's. American flag fish for hair algae but I found they like to snack on plants at times. Amano shrimp are also good. This will depend quite a bit on water parameters and what fish you are stocking so if you give more info people will be better equipped to give you suggestions.

Dan


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## DiegoBedoyaVision (Mar 30, 2017)

Dman911 said:


> I like Nerites and otto's. American flag fish for hair algae but I found they like to snack on plants at times. Amano shrimp are also good. This will depend quite a bit on water parameters and what fish you are stocking so if you give more info people will be better equipped to give you suggestions.
> 
> Dan


I have Cherry Barbs, Plattys, 1 Angel Fish, and GBR. My main fish will be GBR/EBR. I keep my temp right around 80-82 and water levels are all good (on the test strips) gonna be buying a master kit soon so I can provide more specific/accurate water parameters but I've had my tank estalished for 4 years so it's well cycled. On my signature you can click on my intro thread that discloses my tank setup


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

I find the "cleaning crew" is a bit of a mixed bag for me. They do some cleaning but then it is also so haphazard that I'm never sure they are worth the time, effort and room to keep them. I do keep them but more just because they seem right and do fill a niche that fits what I expect. 
But for cleaning the glass? Not for me as it winds up looking more like a bunch of kids have been running their finger all over in weird little squiggles and lines.


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## Dman911 (Nov 24, 2016)

PlantedRich said:


> I find the "cleaning crew" is a bit of a mixed bag for me. They do some cleaning but then it is also so haphazard that I'm never sure they are worth the time, effort and room to keep them. I do keep them but more just because they seem right and do fill a niche that fits what I expect.
> But for cleaning the glass? Not for me as it winds up looking more like a bunch of kids have been running their finger all over in weird little squiggles and lines.


I agree that nothing beats a good maintenance schedule and manual cleaning. I see clean up crews as more of an aid/buffer.

Dan


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## longgonedaddy (Dec 9, 2012)

Please list all of your fish so we can make some better recommendations.

And like others have said, you are the best "cleaner" not the fish.


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## DiegoBedoyaVision (Mar 30, 2017)

Just to clarify I never intended to replace my regular maintenance/cleaning with cleaning fish. Just as a bonus way of polishing the tank or helping it stay cleaner, not saying I won't clean it. I have all my fish listed above they're also on my signature


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## longgonedaddy (Dec 9, 2012)

DiegoBedoyaVision said:


> Just to clarify I never intended to replace my regular maintenance/cleaning with cleaning fish. Just as a bonus way of polishing the tank or helping it stay cleaner, not saying I won't clean it. I have all my fish listed above they're also on my signature


No one is accusing you of letting the fish do all the work. Just cautionary that fish aren't the cleaners that some outlets would have you believe. 

Also, your sig does not have numbers. Do you have 2 cherry barbs or 30?  
how many plecos? Common plecos can get huge. And ancistrus carry a big bioload for their size. SAE can get fairly large, too.


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## DiegoBedoyaVision (Mar 30, 2017)

longgonedaddy said:


> No one is accusing you of letting the fish do all the work. Just cautionary that fish aren't the cleaners that some outlets would have you believe.
> 
> Also, your sig does not have numbers. Do you have 2 cherry barbs or 30?
> how many plecos? Common plecos can get huge. And ancistrus carry a big bioload for their size. SAE can get fairly large, too.


1 - Angel Fish
1 - German Gold Ram 
1 - German Blue Ram
1 - Blue Dwarf Gourami
2 - Orange Platy
2 - Dwarf Gourami
2 - Cherry Barbs
4 - Yellow Platy
5 - Sunburst Platy

1 - Bristlenose Pleco 1"
1 - Albino Bristlenose Pleco 1"
7 - Common Pleco (1-5")
13 - Chinese Algae Eater (1-2")

Everything is juvi for the most part.. hopefully that helps


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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

may want to remove the CP, CAE, and get Proper schools of fish. Some of those fish (i.e.) like the cherry barbs need larger schools.


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## DiegoBedoyaVision (Mar 30, 2017)

BettaBettas said:


> may want to remove the CP, CAE, and get Proper schools of fish. Some of those fish (i.e.) like the cherry barbs need larger schools.


Yeah I plan to remove my CPs and CAEs. I'm setting up my 10 G quarantine tank and I'll move them there while I find them a home... seeing if any friends or people thru FB groups will take them. The CAEs will be tough, I'd hate to give those out to people cause I wouldnt want them to deal with the same issue that I wouldve faced if I'd kept them considering they're aggressive. 

And yeah I'd like to have more Cherry Barbs but they died for some strange reason. I had like 12 at one point lol.

I'm also getting rid of my DG's and getting ready to house my new EBR and Alman Shrimp which are getting shipped tomorrow!


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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

RAOK them


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## DiegoBedoyaVision (Mar 30, 2017)

BettaBettas said:


> RAOK them



If by "RAOK" you mean give them free yeah that's what I'm doing lol


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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

DiegoBedoyaVision said:


> If by "RAOK" you mean give them free yeah that's what I'm doing lol


 on the forums? didn't see the post my mistake


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## Fishbeard (Aug 20, 2016)

I've had mixed results with ghost shrimp too... I had 3 with a betta awhile back, and all three died within the month. I think it might've been that I got them for 35 cents, so they weren't very high quality. Replaced em with 1 amano, and he's doing way better than the ghosts. I've also had better luck with red cherry shrimp too!

With your bigger fish (angel mostly), I'd stick with amano's if you're gonna do shrimp. Just make sure there's plenty of hiding spots. You could also look into mystery snails too, I've heard great things about them!


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## DiegoBedoyaVision (Mar 30, 2017)

Oops didn't know there was a section in the forums for RAOK... sorry I'm still new learning the sections and places to post


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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

DiegoBedoyaVision said:


> Oops didn't know there was a section in the forums for RAOK... sorry I'm still new learning the sections and places to post


 Sa'll good


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## longgonedaddy (Dec 9, 2012)

DiegoBedoyaVision said:


> 1 - Angel Fish
> 1 - German Gold Ram
> 1 - German Blue Ram
> 1 - Blue Dwarf Gourami
> ...


It does, thanks. As others have said, you should move the plecos and the CAE. The bristlenose will help with algae. 

Are you keeping you tank over 80 degrees for the Rams? That will probably dictate a lot of answers, and may also be why your shrimp aren't making it.

Depending on your temp, a school of ottos will help with some algae that the BN doesn't eat. Also, a school of cories will help get whatever food the more pelagic fish miss.


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## Fishbeard (Aug 20, 2016)

longgonedaddy said:


> It does, thanks. As others have said, you should move the plecos and the CAE. The bristlenose will help with algae.
> 
> Are you keeping you tank over 80 degrees for the Rams? That will probably dictate a lot of answers, and may also be why your shrimp aren't making it.
> 
> Depending on your temp, a school of ottos will help with some algae that the BN doesn't eat. Also, a school of cories will help get whatever food the more pelagic fish miss.


Good point with the temp... that is a huge factor!

I'm thinking that the BN is probably gonna cover algae if that's staying in the tank. Wondering if ottos would be too small with the angel, but I've never kept angels before, so no experience in that area!

You could also go with a group of kuhli loaches or other smaller loach (borneo sucker loach or chain loach?) if cories aren't your cup of tea. Would be an interesting addition!


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## Freemananana (Jan 2, 2015)

I have about 10 otos in my 125, they keep it clean. I have 5 nerites as well that do a good job cleaning the viewing panel. Those are definitely my two recommendations, much more than amanos. The otos tear through the algae that forms on my driftwood. I had grown stacks of algae before I added them and it was gone within a week.

Most ghost shrimp are feeder shrimp and are even bread in brackish to salt water. They usually don't live long. It's really hit or miss on what kind of 'ghost shrimp' you're actually getting.


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## JJ09 (Sep 11, 2014)

My cleanup crew is nerite snails, otocinclus and mts- they do a good job on the glass I usually only have to wipe stubborn algae spots off the front glass once every other week or so. I think my oto does more to keep foliage clean than anything else. I got amano shrimps to cleanup some BBA in another setup and then put them in here- they do a great job with tiny hair algae that crops up time to time- I don't ever see that anymore. And even though they aren't eating algae, I think my kuhli loaches help keep things clear of debris- they are constantly stirring stuff up, so my filter picks it up and I never see mulm on the substrate.

My betta tank where I have been unable to keep smaller fishes -tried pygmy cories but he attacked them- is another story. The glass is sparkling clean due to limpets (I did not invite them) and mts, but I always have a problem with mulm. There's no small active fishes rummaging around on the substrate, so stuff just sits.


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## klibs (May 1, 2014)

you realize that CAE get large and common plecos get VERY large right? IMO you should not keep either species in a 55g. 13x CAE and 7x common pleco is a problem. common plecos will grow HUGE (1' +) and will be far too large for your tank. CAE can also get large... some people have some that are like 8" +

plecos are poop machines and create a TON of waste. I would not even bother with smaller species like bristlenose that would suit your tank size. used to have a 4" albino bristlenose in a 30g and it created like 75% of the waste in the tank

IMO stick to a school of ottos... maybe a few true SAE (not CAE) but they are known to stop really cleaning stuff as they get larger (get up to like 6"). ottos clean up pretty good and won't poop all over your tank. amano shrimp are supposed to be good too


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## ichthyogeek (Jul 9, 2014)

Something to consider, is that the cichlids (angel and ram) will probably attempt to eat anything cherry shrimp sized (like ghost shrimp). I'm not sure about amano's, but those seem like they'd be fair game for any fish once they molt. As for cleanup crews, I think that freshwater wise, they tend to be of two types, scavengers and algae eaters:

Corydoras and loaches help disturb the substrate and keep your tank clean that way, but really need schools of 6 or more (I like 8) in order to be truly comfortable.

I agree that the CAE and pleco need to be rehomed, and as soon as possible. That being said, I second the bushynose pleco (especially if you don't have plants) to help rasp out a lot of hard to reach algae. There are multiple species of algae, and really otos are best at getting rid of soft green and diatoms (things you can easily wipe off of the glass). Bushynoses are better at green dot as well as the soft green and diatoms as well, in addition to not needing as many to feel comfortable. SAE's will deal with brush algae while young, but I'm not sure about when they get older, but I know that in combination with amanos and BNP's, they work wonders for a tank. I think you have enough Bushynoses for now, but 1 or 2 SAE's as well as 3-4 amanos would do well in keeping your tank cleaner. 

How did you get 7 plecos and 13 chinese algae eaters? I'm actually very surprised that your angelfish and gouramis aren't scared to death at their slime coats getting sucked off...


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## DiegoBedoyaVision (Mar 30, 2017)

Thank you guys. A good deal of great advice I've received thus far.

Here's my plan - I'm removing my C Plecos, CAE, DG, and I may even remove my Angel Fish if it causes a potential problem to my main fish which is my clean up crew + Blue Rams.

Ottos and Corys are pretty cool. I actually didn't know the difference between Ottos and SAE. I guess I was just uninformed or confused at the pet store. Now that I've learned more and I have more knowledge I'll make sure I get Ottos.

* How many Ottos do you recommend I get?
* How many Corries should I get? 
* What about Yoyo Loaches are those any good?
* Does anyone know a reliable breeder or supplier for these fish?

I ordered 15 cleaning shrimp from The Shrimp Farm (which should arrive by Friday). I want to test how they do in my tank. Based off that I plan on ordering Amano Shrimp as well. Essentially my goal is to reestablish my cleanup crew now that I have better knowledge. Amano shrimps, ottos, corries, BN plecos and maybe some loaches?

I also plan to replace my 3 DG with a Pearl or Honey Gourami. Haven't decided yet, but I want to make sure that I have the right compatability. 

Now as far as my temperature. I keep it at 82 F. Idk why, it's just set there... and I never really changed it. I raised it in the first place a few years back when I was dealing with ich. 

* What should my ideal temperature be at?

Another thing to keep in mind is that I am in the process of upgrading my lighting so that I can start adding more plants. Atm I only have low-light hardy plants, but I do plan on creating more of a planet-scape type of theme so something to keep in mind when recommending which fish I should get. My new lighting will arrive tomorrow so I should have that installed by night time, besides that my 6 EBR's that I ordered from Tom arrive on Wednesday.

Looking forward to some more responses & tips!

Bump: This is what my tank currently looks like

Bump: Oh I almost forgot! Are Cherry Barbs and Platys a good fit for my tank? I'd hate to remove those cause that's were I get most of my color from fish lol..


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## klibs (May 1, 2014)

corys and ottos are very social fish and will be happy in larger groups. IMO get at least 6 of either species. I believe loaches are the same way but I have never owned them.

pretty sure barbs can be aggressive / nippy in certain situations so just keep an eye on them.

for temperature it depends on what kinds of fish you have... it is important to know that most corys like COLDER water (low 70s I think). I believe sterbai corys are the species that can deal with warmer water better (validate this first) and they are the more expensive kind. for instance, I have pearl gouramis in my tank that like the water around 80 degrees so I keep my tank at like 78. have not read the entire thread but I see you mentioned angelfish... that's another species that likes warmer water (~80). some research will tell you what kinds of fish do well at certain temperature ranges

you don't need more light to start adding plants. stocking with as many plants as you can initially will make things easier

also so you know, corys and loaches are not 'clean up' type fish. they just hang out on the bottom. don't eat algae or anything like that.


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## longgonedaddy (Dec 9, 2012)

Do you have a separate tank for the incoming shrimp? Or do you plan on adding a ton of cover before putting them in? Otherwise, I don't think they'll last longer than dinnertime. 

The angel fish won't bother the Rams and the cats, other than just establishing itself as the big fish of the tank. I suggest keeping it. Mine doesn't even notice the other fish anymore. He just goes where he wants and they stay out of his way. 

Get a dozen ottos, they like groups, don't add much bioload, and you'll enjoy themwhen all swimming and scrubbing together. 

Cories-----, like klibs said, sterbai are the go-to warmer water ones, but there are a few others. Check out planetcatfish for some other ideas, and go for the ones that match your temp and you like their look. And I say get 8-12.


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

I'd put at least 10 to 12 corys in a tank that size to make sure they can always find a friend.
Corys are good at finding missed food though, and they won't stop moving until the food is done, after which they take it easy until the next time they smell food.


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## DiegoBedoyaVision (Mar 30, 2017)

Okay this was not fun... but I removed all the lil fellas. I literally spent like 2 hours and I had to remove all my driftwood/plants.

Btw there ended up being 17 CAEs.. I'm glad I signed up to these forums and I learned the difference between SAE and CAE. Otherwise I would've had a huge problem down the line lol


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## ichthyogeek (Jul 9, 2014)

Daaaaaang, that is a lot of slime eaters...I wonder if you could put them to work like Garra rufa? 

Corys you could probably find a reliable breeder on the forum. Otos and loaches to my knowledge are not widely propogated. I highly do not recommend any loach (besides kuhli) with shrimp, as they WILL eat your shrimp. Could you provide us with an updated stocking list so that we can know what exactly it is you want to put in your tank? A lot of the fish you're listing I distinctly remember being under the "Do Not Keep with Shrimp" list...


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## DiegoBedoyaVision (Mar 30, 2017)

Sure. Sounds good; well this time I want to make sure whatever I stock is right. Removing all the driftwood/plants to catch fish to the rearrange everything is a pain lol

1 - Angel 
1 - Gold GBR 
1 - GBR
2 - Orange Platy
3 - Cherry Barb
4 - Yellow Platy
5 - Sunburst Platy
1 - BN Pleco
1 - Albino BN Pleco
Total: 18 

I got 6 EBR arriving today from Tom. I'll be adding those to this tank since I have all the bad fishies on the Q tank.

My 15 Cleaner shrimp from The Shrimp Farm arrive sometime Thurs-Fri.

Ideally I would like to have my tank optimized for my Rams, everything else built around it. Again I am aware I have an Angel but I am open to removing it if needed. I like ottos and corys; if loaches are a problem I dont want them. Thanks for the the help!


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## Fishbeard (Aug 20, 2016)

From what I've read, you shouldn't keep loaches and cories together. Since they're competing for the same food, one species is bound to be the slower one (kuhlis, for example, I know are slow eaters). I'd stick with cories for your purposes.


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## ichthyogeek (Jul 9, 2014)

IMO, I think you should get rid of the platies and cherry barbs also, since they don't really tolerate higher heat as well. Rams really do love warm (80F) water, and if you're optimizing the tank for rams, you want water that is soft (6.0-7.0), warm (80 F), and gently flowing. Platies really prefer cooler aquariums (65-75) and harder water. They can survive in softer warmer water, but I'm not sure if they'll thrive. 

I think I remember otos liking cooler water as well, but you could try? I'm fairly positive that BNP's on the other hand will do very well in the tank. Sterbai corydoras and dwarf corydoras (Corydoras sterbai, pygmaeus, habrosus and hastatus) can thrive in warmer water, and are able to keep up with discus when it comes to water temperature, however the angel may eat the dwarves in the future. If you choose to replace your barbs and platies, I'd like to suggest dwarf hatchetfish (C. strigata or marthae) for the top layer, and rummynose and cardinal tetras for the middle (Hemigrammus rhodostomus, and Paracheirodon axelrodi).

All of the above fish (minus hatchets) will eventually eat dwarf shrimp (Caridina and Neocaridina spp) shrimplets, and may even take the adults, but I'm not sure if they can take amano's.


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## DiegoBedoyaVision (Mar 30, 2017)

I'm open to removing my platys. I originally added them to add color to the tank, but with my GBR, Golden GBR, and EBRs I have a lot of color now. Cherry Barbs on the other hand I have only 3 but I was planning on getting more and schooling them (probably around 15). I've never had any issues with them fin nipping. Tiger Barbs on the other hand I know fin tip everything!

I definitely don't want to mess up my fish combo. And I don't want to add something that I'll need to remove later because it's a pain in the neck to remove all my decor/plants to catch fish.

*So far here is my updated stocking list:*
1 - Angel Fish
1 - Gold German Blue Ram 
1 - German Blue Ram
2 - Bristlenose Pleco
2 - Orange Platy
3 - Cherry Barb
4 - Yellow Platy
5 - Sunburst Platy
8 - Electric Blue Ram

*I'd like to add the following:*
* Ottos (A school of 7 sounds good?)
* Corys (Is there a specific type of cory I should get and how many?)
* Amano Shrimp (My rams ate my small ghost shrimp, but I have bigger ghost shrimp that my fish don't mess with. I know Amano shrimps are supposed to be bigger right? If so I shouldn't have a problem..)

Dwarf Hatchetfish - I'm not a huge fan off... is there any other recommendation for top layer fish?
Rummynose and Cardinal tetras - I had Cardinal Tetras at one point but they all disappeared, idk what happened. (This was before I removed my CP and CAE). I do like them tho, I think they're great looking fish. I'm down to get a school of 15 going for those. I like the Rummynose tetras as well, can I mix with Cardinals? Will they school together?
Would it be a problem if I keep the Cherry Barbs?


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

Otto's are my favorite algae cleaners. Amano Shrimp are also very good.

Bump:


Fishbeard said:


> From what I've read, you shouldn't keep loaches and cories together. Since they're competing for the same food, one species is bound to be the slower one (kuhlis, for example, I know are slow eaters). I'd stick with cories for your purposes.


Well I have both Clown Loaches and cories and they all doing great together. In fact they usually hang out together. I make sure they all get a chance for some food. The loaches for me typically go up when I feed and the cories are on the bottom getting the left overs.


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## DiegoBedoyaVision (Mar 30, 2017)

Does anyone know a reliable breeder I can purchase Ottos/Corys from?


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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

aqauatic arts


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## Fishbeard (Aug 20, 2016)

I always get my cories at my LFS, just cause my water is a bit hard, and they have already had a chance to adapt. I'd look locally if possible, especially for ottos, since they can be so fragile.


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## DiegoBedoyaVision (Mar 30, 2017)

BettaBettas said:


> aqauatic arts


They look like a really good supplier, love the site... however the shipping $40.00 is out rageous imo.


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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

DiegoBedoyaVision said:


> They look like a really good supplier, love the site... however the shipping $40.00 is out rageous imo.


 I truly from deep down in the pits of my heart agree with you lol! shipping Anywhere online is horrible, whenever I order plants one day air is like fifty bucks, like just open the bag for god sakes its not worth fifty dollars.


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## DiegoBedoyaVision (Mar 30, 2017)

Lol I know! I had like $60 worth of fish and plants I had spent like an hour browsing and when I was about to check out the total was like $102 and I was like WOAH how did that happen!? ... so I just went over to TSF and ordered 5 Amano Shrimp for $25 instead lol


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## DiegoBedoyaVision (Mar 30, 2017)

Picked up a nice looking pair of Panda Corys and an Otto. Looking to add more when I find more to buy lol. Ideally I wana have 7 Ottos and possible 5 Corys. Any suggestions/tips?

*Updated Fish Stock*
1 - Angel Fish
1 - German Gold Ram 
1 - German Blue Ram
1 - Otto
1 - Ghost Shrimp
1 - Blue Phantom Pleco
1 - Snowball Pleco
2 - Bristlenose Plecos
2 - Panda Corys
7 - Electric Blue Rams
11 - School of Platies
13 - School of Cherry Barbs


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## John_Jensen (Apr 26, 2017)

I am heavily planting my 46 gallon bow front tank on Monday will shrimp and snails be ok in the tank with the 6 platy's I have?


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## ichthyogeek (Jul 9, 2014)

John_Jensen said:


> I am heavily planting my 46 gallon bow front tank on Monday will shrimp and snails be ok in the tank with the 6 platy's I have?


Please start a new thread rather than derail this one. It lets you get the attention your tank needs rather than detract from the attention this thread gets.


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## DiegoBedoyaVision (Mar 30, 2017)

Check out my new Ottos! 
























































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