# How much ADA for 150g? With or Without Power Sand?



## green_valley (Sep 14, 2011)

I am thinking on rescaping my 150g with ADA substrate in near future. How much do I need of 9L bags? also how much the substrate additive?

Thanks


----------



## IWANNAGOFAST (Jan 14, 2008)

what's the dimensions of the tank? I used 3 9L bags for my 48 gal, it was 36x18x18, and gave me a pretty good layer (about 3-4 inches thick)


----------



## green_valley (Sep 14, 2011)

Thanks for the reply. Dimension is 72"x18"x24". If you use 3 bags for 48g, then I might need around 9 of them. Did you use the substrate additive? how much?


----------



## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

I put 8.5 bags in my 150.


----------



## green_valley (Sep 14, 2011)

Craigthor said:


> I put 8.5 bags in my 150.


Thanks Craig. What's your 150g dimension?


----------



## krillkill (Oct 2, 2010)

8 9L bags for a bit more than 3" of substrate


----------



## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

Dimensions are important over gallon size. a 120 is only 48" long but a 125 is 72" long and its the footprint that matters for this. I would say about 8 though too. I used 1 9L bag of Netlea for 20gals.


----------



## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

72x18 foot print and 28" tall


----------



## green_valley (Sep 14, 2011)

Thanks for the info everyone? any comments or opinions on substrate Additive (penac stuff)?


----------



## green_valley (Sep 14, 2011)

It seems like I have to spend around $300 (substrate only) for this new scape. Hmmmmmm......


----------



## adriano (Nov 4, 2011)

Each 9L bag is 549 cubic inches.

Your tank's footprint is 1296 square inches, so, 2.3 9L bags for every inch of soil you want.


----------



## ClintonParsons (Aug 22, 2011)

green_valley said:


> Thanks for the info everyone? any comments or opinions on substrate Additive (penac stuff)?



If you want additives, go for clear super and bacter 100 if you must choose only two. Add Tourmaline if you believe in its properties and don't mind spending the extra cash for a little possible benefit, and add penac W and Penac P if you want to go all out. I use penac P and W and notice a difference...so much so that I imported penac-K and T from a Plocher distributer in Canada since it wasn't available in the US!

I suggest you go all out. On a tank this big you can use the whole bottle of clear super, bacter 100 and tourmaline BC. I am not sure how much penac W and P to use. Probably 50 grams (the penac bottles hold 250 grams)

You don't NEED any of the additives but I look at them like vitamin supplements/accelerators for your substrate system to function the best over a long period of time. You are already spending a lot of money on aquasoil alone, so you may as well spend a little bit more for the additives. 

I also highly reccomend power sand if you are going to be using that much aquasoil under that much water pressure.


----------



## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

Yep about $300 for substrate but well worth it in the long run.

Craig


----------



## green_valley (Sep 14, 2011)

ClintonParsons said:


> If you want additives, go for clear super and bacter 100 if you must choose only two. Add Tourmaline if you believe in its properties and don't mind spending the extra cash for a little possible benefit, and add penac W and Penac P if you want to go all out. I use penac P and W and notice a difference...so much so that I imported penac-K and T from a Plocher distributer in Canada since it wasn't available in the US!
> 
> I suggest you go all out. On a tank this big you can use the whole bottle of clear super, bacter 100 and tourmaline BC. I am not sure how much penac W and P to use. Probably 50 grams (the penac bottles hold 250 grams)
> 
> ...



Thank you so much for your suggestions. I appreciate it. On one note, I am still not 100% about Power Sand. I have been researching on PS, but I am still not convinced about this water pressure thing. PS also advertise for water movement, but there are other method to complete this issue.


----------



## green_valley (Sep 14, 2011)

Also, I went to my LFS, he claimed that if I only need 2 inches Flat, I can get away with 5 bag 9L. Hmmmmm..........


----------



## The Gipper (Sep 9, 2003)

I bought 8 bags for my soon to be 180gal (72" x 24") expecting over 2 inches. No to power sand for me, have it from some with experience in big tanks


----------



## green_valley (Sep 14, 2011)

The Gipper said:


> I bought 8 bags for my soon to be 180gal (72" x 24") expecting over 2 inches. No to power sand for me, have it from some with experience in big tanks


I am curious what's the experiences?


----------



## The Gipper (Sep 9, 2003)

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/substrate/109890-ada-power-sand-amazonia-aqua-soil.html


----------



## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

green_valley said:


> Thank you so much for your suggestions. I appreciate it. On one note, I am still not 100% about Power Sand. I have been researching on PS, but I am still not convinced about this water pressure thing. PS also advertise for water movement, but there are other method to complete this issue.


The water pressure thing is baloney.
I've had two clients that did the whole thing, I cannot tell any difference with those vs the tanks where I used ADA As alone and my soil is well over 12" deep in many sections.

I also had a tank at home that I ran and could not honestly say there is any difference, the bulk of the nutrients and the things that make plants grow, are in the ADA AS, not in any of the other additives.

PS has virtually nothing, nor do the other products.
Add some Super Thrive from a local nursery if feel the need to add vitamins/plant growth regulators. Great for larger fruits and flowers, but does little for enhancing vegetative growth. Just redistributes the resources a plant makes, and if vegetative growth is all you want, then focusing on the basics is the only way you will enhancing the growth overall.

That's not going to change no matter what the marketing says and no matter what the GMO crops do. Roots and leaves,that's all we are after.

But...it's your money and if you feel better.........I wanted to know and could not find any suppoort for them, but did find ADA AS did a good deal. I measured the nutrients in the products as well as a follow up both initial and at 18 months of usage.


----------



## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

If you do us ethe powersand, just be aware of it and not pulling up the grains when replanting, in other words, top the plants only as a rule, and rarely unless you REALLY have to, do not uproot and move plants around.


----------



## green_valley (Sep 14, 2011)

*My response is within your statement below:
*



plantbrain said:


> The water pressure thing is baloney.
> I've had two clients that did the whole thing, I cannot tell any difference with those vs the tanks where I used ADA As alone and my soil is well over 12" deep in many sections.
> 
> *That's what I thought. Have you had any experience with around 24"?
> ...


----------



## green_valley (Sep 14, 2011)

plantbrain said:


> If you do us ethe powersand, just be aware of it and not pulling up the grains when replanting, in other words, top the plants only as a rule, and rarely unless you REALLY have to, do not uproot and move plants around.


Is that because of cloudyness? or is that because the color of PS? I heard that their color is white and uproot would make somekind of mess.

I am not 100% sure about PS. First, they're expensive. Second, I am not really sure if what PS claims is true or not. Specially after what you have experienced.


----------



## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Who has soil 24" deep in any aquascape?

No sense in that, just use spacers to build up a slope.
Lots cheaper than ADA AS!

Yep, even the penac, it was not my choice, that stuff is way whacky quackery.
It's more like spiritual new age wine, called Biodynamic Organic sustainable wine. I live close to the CA wine industry folks. I'm 125% pro sustainable agriculture, but the rest of that stuff gives organic sustainable local folks a bad name.

Again, if you feel better, I suppose, it is your money.

At 18 months, I did not have more longer term soil/data available.
Still, the trend showed that except for Nitrogen.........the soil alone should provide nutrients for 10 years or so, maybe more.

Nitrogen is often a limiting nutrient in wetland soils and rice paddies etc, l;ike the CA rice systems here where I live, they pump pure ammonia in the soil, this is pretty much all they do once a year. This soil here is VERY similar to ADA AS in most all aspects. If the N is NH4, it can bind to the clay, if it's NO3, it will follow the water, thus leach. Bacteria goes to work fairly quick and converts the NH4 to NO2-. NO3, and then some will convert the NO3=> N2 gas. PO4 has no atmospheric component. Hence why in wetlands and in our tanks, the N is removed faster and in larger % biomass in plant tissue than the other nutrients.

NOT be some mystery of ADA lore and mysticism. 

So yes on the N being gone in 18 moths, but nay for all the other nutrients.
Now if you have a decent fish load(VERY UNCOMMON in ADA tanks if you have noticed) and feed often, use Brighty lights etc, then you can get some N.

Or you dose something like EI.........etc.......which I did for the 18 month period, so the draw from the sediment is Minimized and the results would give the best possible outcome, still after 12-18 months, not a bad idea to slowly add more KNO3 etc.

If you want the same rate of growth continued, many do not, they just want the tank to grow in, then slow/stop the plant growth. But then you lose some of the benefit of the plants to begin with.

Powersand is lighter, larger and all larger grains end up on top while the smaller finer stuff on the bottom..... and will end up mixing with the ADA As and looks frankly....tacky. 

So if you are careful, then you minimize this mixing by being careful when you up root and move anything or simply trim and top plants only.

PS does not harm/hurt......like the other stuff/add ins etc...but offers little real usage(I could not see any, nor was the information provided realistic or helpful, this leaves me with only a few replacement test to see, of which I could find no significant differences). The ADA As is doing the the noted added benefit.

It is hard to get folks to agree on what is doing what, particularly if they added 5 things to the sediment. But if you add things one at time and then see over time and have those same good effects, it raises strong doubt as to whether these other items are the lion's share of the positive effect.

These seem more marketing guys idea, not Amano's.
He even admits to it.

Folks get hung up on all this, and do not see his main idea is good gardening, trimming and design. Craftsmanship I tend to refer to it as.


----------



## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

green_valley said:


> Is that because of cloudyness? or is that because the color of PS? I heard that their color is white and uproot would make somekind of mess.
> 
> I am not 100% sure about PS. First, they're expensive. Second, I am not really sure if what PS claims is true or not. Specially after what you have experienced.


I'm trying to be fair here, but also honest. I can find nothing that supports these claims about PS.

Say vs AS alone.

It will never hurt the tank, but if you move plants around, well.......you'll see your self.

I can move my tanks and soil around without messing it up and messing those two things together, since I have a single sediment type.

I know enough about soil to use the rice paddy soil here, but I like ADA because it's a nicer product aesthetically. I'd need a cap of sand for the rice paddy soil also, which goes against the single sediment type I prefer.

So I use it mostly as an aesthetic reason.
It's nice, looks good and grows plants good. 

Folks have a bad habit of wanting to add all sorts of stuff when some rather simple things are ALL that are required.


----------



## green_valley (Sep 14, 2011)

My response below:



plantbrain said:


> Who has soil 24" deep in any aquascape?
> 
> No sense in that, just use spacers to build up a slope.
> Lots cheaper than ADA AS!
> ...


----------



## green_valley (Sep 14, 2011)

plantbrain said:


> I'm trying to be fair here, but also honest. I can find nothing that supports these claims about PS.
> 
> Say vs AS alone.
> 
> ...


Your view is somewhat like mine. I love dealing with soil. They are just amazing. I can totally see the difference of growth. I tried different substrates (EcoComplete, Flourite, Turface, gravel, etc), they're nothing compare to soil (growth wise). Amazing stuff. But the only problem is the cap. I just wish that those soil doesn't need to be capped. That's why I would like to try ADA. No need multiple layers, and seems easier for mound scape.


----------

