# Potting soil ???



## switcharoo (Sep 5, 2010)

yes and no. 

use Miracle Grow Organic potting soil 

thats what i used and it is great for plant growth


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## Pri (Oct 20, 2010)

Why YES and why NO?

I'm not sure ti find this brand of soil here. Can I use any one of them?

Thanks

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## switcharoo (Sep 5, 2010)

well. some are better then others/ obviously.
some soils contain things that arent good for tanks that will cause problems, most use manuare, with is not good. the organic is the best choice. because it doesnt contain any chemicals or anything really un-natural.
you can find it at any hardware store. like homedepot, for like 6 bucks a bag. 








then just top it with either sand or gravel.


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## Pri (Oct 20, 2010)

I live far away from US and we don't have these stores over here. I'll will look for some organic soil in the local stores.



My planted tank http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myTanks/2076-Pri.html
My Cichlid tank http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myTanks/2075-Pri.html
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## Pri (Oct 20, 2010)

Can I use any type of gravel to top the potting soil? 

Does the soil leak in water while planting or cleaning the tank?

Thanks


My planted tank http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myTanks/2076-Pri.html
My Cichlid tank http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myTanks/2075-Pri.html
My DIY project Journal http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/ta...y-project.html
My Betta Pico http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/pl...nted-pico.html


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Potting soil can contain bits of wood and vermiculite, both of which readily float in water. That's one good reason to be careful about using it.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

You would be wise to read over the 60+ page sticky on how to make and use mineralized top soil. I personally think these alot more flexability than the thread leads you to believe, but from a safety standpoint, follow the directions and you wont be disappointed.


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## OoglyBoogly (Oct 19, 2010)

If you don't use pesticides or fertilizers you could just take some topsoil from your backyard. Just make sure you remove all the rocks, chunks of leaves, and twigs. I bought a bag of topsoil from home depot the other day. The topsoil was bagged locally from some company and was labeled "Pure Natural Organic". The only thing they mix with it is peat. I basically filled a 5 gallon bucket up half way with soil then added scalding hot water from the tub until there was about 5 inches of water on top of the soil(This is for an experimental 15g tank). I swished the water/mud around for about 10 minutes and a huge amount of peat and twigs floated to the surface. I removed the floating bits by skimming it off with a net (and then put that stuff on some potted plants). I let the water soak for about a day so that everything would settle and then poured off the murky water. I repeated the soaking/stirring for 2-3 more days slowly pouring off the water that had been settling for about 12-24 hours each run. I wasn't really trying to mineralize it so much as I am trying to get rid of the large chunks/twigs since I plan on using the soil for a dry start method. Right now it looks like very smooth black mud. I have a tray of 1/2 HC and 1/2 DHG belem growing right now where I use the mud as 1/2"-1" deep bottom layer capped with about 1/2"-1" of eco-complete. This is just to grow out some plants before I put them in an actual hardscape. When I use the "mud" in an actual tank I will be mixing it up with pool filter sand. I had read a post started by Tom Barr where he mentions mixing the mud with sand to help dilute it and prevent it from getting stinky:

Some simple solutions to using soil in planted tanks

Dry Start Method (DSM) to mineralize soil while your plants grow out


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## Pri (Oct 20, 2010)

Thanks for all these answers.




> let the water soak for about a day so that everything would settle and then poured off the murky water. I repeated the soaking/stirring for 2-3 more days slowly pouring off the water that had been settling for about 12-24 hours each run.


OOGLYBOOGLY ; Does the process of "rinsing the soil" wash away nutrients present in the soil?? 


My planted tank http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myTanks/2076-Pri.html
My Cichlid tank http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myTanks/2075-Pri.html
My DIY project Journal http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/t...88-125g-pond-river-waterfall-diy-project.html
My Betta Pico http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/planted-nano-tanks/122780-black-white-planted-pico.html


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

Some nutrients will get washed away, but not many with that system: A couple of fill and rinse cycles is not much. 

You ought to add fertilizer, anyway, not depend on what is in the soil. It will get used up no matter what, so plan on replenishing it gradually. 

The only 'manure' that seems OK for aquariums is worm castings. 

You are looking for a more sandy-soil sort of material, not a 'Composted fir bark' sort of product. Many potting soils are more like composted sawdust, peat and similar plant based products. These are the materials to avoid in the aquarium. 
Also avoid products with wetting agents, fertilizer and any other amendments. 
This does not leave much besides sand. And why pay for sand if it is available by the shovelful in the back yard?

If the locally available bagged products are unreliable, then the DIY mineralized soil is a great way to go.


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## accordztech (Dec 6, 2004)

I use top soil but I was cautioned to keep away from any enriched soils. I found a soil that had almost nothing and then I filtered out the main wood pieces in it. Look at my sign for a build these on it


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## Pri (Oct 20, 2010)

> This does not leave much besides sand. And why pay for sand if it is available by the shovelful in the back yard?
> 
> If the locally available bagged products are unreliable, then the DIY mineralized soil is a great way to go.



I think I'll try the DIY mineralized soil with soil from my backyard or i'll rather collect some soil in a forest to be sure that there is not contamination.




> I use top soil but I was cautioned to keep away from any enriched soils. I found a soil that had almost nothing and then I filtered out the main wood pieces in it. Look at my sign for a build these on it


I went through your thread and noticed that you didn't use the "rinsing process" before topping with sand. So that's not necessary?? Did you soaked the soil before filling the tank? Did you have any kind of problem when you add water??


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

Have a look at my post to the thread "MTS... then winter hit". 
There is a guide to using any sort of soil, though the comments make it look like garden soil, you can do the same thing to bagged mixes. 

Once you have soil that has almost no floating matter (roots, leaves, sticks, compost) you can use it right away in the tank. 

I would add some fertilizer tablets first, on the floor of the tank, then be careful not to disturb them. Slow release product like Osmocote is good.

Wet the soil pretty well so there is the least dust. Put the soil in the tank, rocks, driftwood... Shape the soil into hills and valleys. 
Wet the soil some more, perhaps a spray/mist bottle for a smaller tank. Take this opportunity to rinse off the glass, too. Do not get the water higher than the soil. 

Plant, misting often. Add a topping (gravel, sand...) after you are finished planting if you want. 

Put a plastic bag or a plate over the substrate and start filling. Run the water in slowly so it seeps over the plate. This will minimize clouding. 
In a larger tank you can run the water faster after it is about 8" or deeper. Aim the hose horizontally so as not to dig up the substrate. 

Since this soil is an unknown as far as fertilizer and other components go, I would run the tank for a while and test for everything I have tests for.
Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate: For the plants these are fertilizers. For the fish, toxins. If ANY ammonia or nitrite show up then allow the tank to cycle to grow the necessary nitrifying bacteria to deal with these. Some soils release so much ammonia you can do a fishless cycle and not need to add any ammonia. 
GH, KH, pH. If these are stable this is best. If they are changing then there is something in the soil doing this. If the soil was originally a limestone or coral parent material then the soil is likely going to make the water hard and alkaline. Think about keeping livebearers, Rift Lake fish, Rainbows...


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## Pri (Oct 20, 2010)

> Have a look at my post to the thread "MTS... then winter hit".


Didn't find the thread. 

Anyway, thanks a lot for your advices Diana, will be a great help when I will start my new tank


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## Pri (Oct 20, 2010)

> Have a look at my post to the thread "MTS... then winter hit".


Found the thread "MTS - Halfway finished and winter hit"

Thanks


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## Franco (Jun 13, 2010)

Pri, since you are on the island and don't have access to a lot of the soils we use in the states, "wild" dirt is your best option. Collect a few different types of soil and test them out in smaller containers outside and see how the plants grow. That way you don't start a whole tank and discover that the soil you chose doesn't work well. I don't use the whole rinsing and draining technique for making MTS. I just get it wet, spread it out in a big shallow container outside (or on a sheet of plastic), let it dry, break it up, spray it with water to moisten it, and repeat. After a couple weeks you will have nicely mineralized topsoil without a lot of labor invested. Pretty much any nutrient rich soil will work well but you don't want it to be all sticks and bark like potting soil is.
Diana is Diana Walstad, author of Ecology of the Planted Aquarium. Brilliant lady. Her book was far better than any limnology or aquatic ecology book I ever had to read in college.
You also don't have to mineralize the topsoil if you don't want to. Its just a little added insurance to fend off algae blooms in the first month or two of a newly set up tank.


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## boringname (Nov 11, 2010)

Pri said:


> Hi,
> 
> Is the use of potting soil safe for fish tanks?? Can I use any type of potting soil ??
> 
> ...



The thing to remember about expensive potting soil brands is that the goal is to keep the plant healthy for as long as possible without adding fertilizer. This is to reduce the work the plant owner has to do. To accomplish this things like tree bark and other organic materials are put in to slowly break down and provide nutrients. But under water these things quickly break down and overload the tank. Also things like osmocote are used to slowly release nutrients into the soil. But underwater the osmocotes release the nutrients much faster.

The main goal of expensive potting soil is avoiding adding fertilizer for as long as possible, this doesn't really help for aquariums. The least expensive potting soil in a store is more likely to be good for an aquarium than the most expensive.


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## harvzc (Dec 22, 2010)

in my case, I dig just about 6kg of soil near in my place, and I washed it many times, and just get about a kilo of muddy soil.


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

I am not Diana Walstad. I have a background in horticulture, both college and working in the field. The test I am suggesting is from my Soils text book and lab work (Mumble... mumble) years ago. 
I admire Diana Walstad's book, and her articles, but they are hers, not mine.


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## OoglyBoogly (Oct 19, 2010)

Diana said:


> I am not Diana Walstad. I have a background in horticulture, both college and working in the field. The test I am suggesting is from my Soils text book and lab work (Mumble... mumble) years ago.
> I admire Diana Walstad's book, and her articles, but they are hers, not mine.


You can try and hide Mizzzz Walstad but you're simple name Diana betrays you. Only Diana Walstad would dare claim such a username on such a forum. :biggrin:

Just kidding :hihi:

I did wonder for a moment but then I was like mehh... logical sounding information usually makes sense and lab tests/data usually back a statement so it didn't really matter (to me) who you might or might not be when I was taking in your statement. It's good to always question things unless you are my 3 year old nephew questioning the merits of why you should not kick my dog whose head weighs half the amount of his whole body.

So yeah I have a direct question regarding adding fertilizers to a rinsed (2-3 times) underlayer of soil. I am going to mix it with pool filter sand so it isn't as "rich" (pulling from a post made by plantbrain/tom barr) and then I'm going to cap it with eco-complete (black basalt). What's a good fertilizer to use? Should I aim for something organic? Osmocote? How about mixing in some tropica fertilizer type powder in with the soil before I cap it off? Glacial rock dust?

Ohh yea sorry to abuse your presence but I also saw someone once mention the use of Glacial Rock dust in a substrate but not a single person responded to the thread. Can glacial rock dust replace mineralized topsoil? 

I also plan on inoculating my substrate with 4 types of endomychorrizae (purchased from fungi.com for hydroponic use)...

Glomus intraradices, Glomus mosseae, Glomus aggregatum, Glomus etunicatum

...and it's my understanding that the combination of biological processes from a plants roots, fungi, other microorganisms will slowly unlock the micronutrients that are locked up in "rocks"... Am I totally wrong with this?


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## Pri (Oct 20, 2010)

> Pri, since you are on the island and don't have access to a lot of the soils we use in the states, "wild" dirt is your best option. Collect a few different types of soil and test them out in smaller containers outside and see how the plants grow. That way you don't start a whole tank and discover that the soil you chose doesn't work well. I don't use the whole rinsing and draining technique for making MTS. I just get it wet, spread it out in a big shallow container outside (or on a sheet of plastic), let it dry, break it up, spray it with water to moisten it, and repeat. After a couple weeks you will have nicely mineralized topsoil without a lot of labor invested. Pretty much any nutrient rich soil will work well but you don't want it to be all sticks and bark like potting soil is.


Thanks Franco, 
I do some gardening too and I know a place where I can find good soil, I use to collect soil from there for potting flowers and plant and they grow well. I'll will try the same soil in a tank. 


My planted tank http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myTanks/2076-Pri.html
My Cichlid tank http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myTanks/2075-Pri.html
My DIY project Journal http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/t...88-125g-pond-river-waterfall-diy-project.html
My Betta Pico http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/planted-nano-tanks/122780-black-white-planted-pico.html


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## Pri (Oct 20, 2010)

> The main goal of expensive potting soil is avoiding adding fertilizer for as long as possible, this doesn't really help for aquariums. The least expensive potting soil in a store is more likely to be good for an aquarium than the most expensive.


Thanks for the advice. 
I won't buy any of them...most of the potting soil I'm am able to find here do have addition of fertilizers and are not natural stuff.


My planted tank http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myTanks/2076-Pri.html
My Cichlid tank http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myTanks/2075-Pri.html
My DIY project Journal http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/t...88-125g-pond-river-waterfall-diy-project.html
My Betta Pico http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/planted-nano-tanks/122780-black-white-planted-pico.html


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