# Bga?



## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

Is this BGA? If not, then what in the world is it?


















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## oscarlloydjohn (Dec 3, 2017)

That's not BGA, I think it is the start of BBA or diatoms possibly but I can't tell too well from the pictures.

Trim the leaves that are damaged or have algae on them and you should be alright. Algae thrives on unhealthy plant growth.


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

oscarlloydjohn said:


> That's not BGA, I think it is the start of BBA or diatoms possibly but I can't tell too well from the pictures.
> 
> Trim the leaves that are damaged or have algae on them and you should be alright. Algae thrives on unhealthy plant growth.




It’s definitely not diatoms, it isn’t soft and it takes a brush to get it off. Also it doesn’t react to Excel or h2o2.

On some spots it looks black, on others it looks deep purple. It doesn’t get hairy/brushy, just remains as a film.


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

I’m wondering if it’s possible that it’s some kind of aquatic fungus?

It’s very strange stuff. Could it be caused by improper driftwood? The stuff in there right now is grape wood.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

It is "BGA"

It's a red strain of cyanobacteria. I had the same stuff. Chemiclean x 2 doses and a couple big water changes will wipe it out.


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

Quagulator said:


> It is "BGA"
> 
> 
> 
> It's a red strain of cyanobacteria. I had the same stuff. Chemiclean x 2 doses and a couple big water changes will wipe it out.




Thanks for the tip! Did you have any significant issues with it regarding invertebrates or bacteria?


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

varanidguy said:


> Thanks for the tip! Did you have any significant issues with it regarding invertebrates or bacteria?


Put an airstone in the tank, or somehow increase gas exchange. The breakdown of this stuff will use O2. 

Any more pictures of it? I want to confirm it is the same stuff I was dealing with.


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

Quagulator said:


> Put an airstone in the tank, or somehow increase gas exchange. The breakdown of this stuff will use O2.
> 
> 
> 
> Any more pictures of it? I want to confirm it is the same stuff I was dealing with.




Sure thing! Fish weren’t happy with the light coming on but only for a second lol











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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

varanidguy said:


> Sure thing! Fish weren’t happy with the light coming on but only for a second lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm about 95% sure it's the same stiff. 

Does it "wipe" off fairly easy? Does it feel slimy? Are there any thicker mats of it in the tank?


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

Quagulator said:


> I'm about 95% sure it's the same stiff.
> 
> 
> 
> Does it "wipe" off fairly easy? Does it feel slimy? Are there any thicker mats of it in the tank?



No thicker mats of it in the tank. I can use a tooth brush to scrub it off but it doesn’t necessarily feel slimy.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

varanidguy said:


> No thicker mats of it in the tank. I can use a tooth brush to scrub it off but it doesn’t necessarily feel slimy.


Hmmm, a few closer up pictures would be best. The stuff I had was very soft / slimy


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

Quagulator said:


> Hmmm, a few closer up pictures would be best. The stuff I had was very soft / slimy





























Can confirm it isn’t super slimy and doesn’t wipe off easily with a finger, but a tooth brush does make it come off.

Also it doesn’t respond to h2o2 treatment.



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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Does it look like the darker algae in this video? (video is NOT cyano)

I'm 50 / 50 at this point. If it's an algae or a cyanobacteria...\

Is it rough feeling? 

Cyano responds to H2O2 really well so....


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

Quagulator said:


> Aquarium bugs - YouTube
> 
> Does it look like the darker algae in this video? (video is NOT cyano)
> 
> ...




Yes! Especially the stuff in the beginning of the video.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

varanidguy said:


> Yes! Especially the stuff in the beginning of the video.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Okay, it's likely not cyano then. So don't bother with Chemiclean


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

Quagulator said:


> Okay, it's likely not cyano then. So don't bother with Chemiclean




 Any ideas?


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

For a anyone interested I think I’ve found what could be contributing.

The piece of wood in the tank is grapewood. I’ve had it water logged for about a year and a half, but over the past month or so I’ve noticed some pieces falling off.

It may be slowly rotting. I scraped it with my fingernail and was able to easily remove a layer of wood. That could be really increasing the organic waste in the tank and causing this problem. I’m going to find some more suitable wood and maybe some rocks and replace it.

I’ll update this thread as necessary just in case anyone else has feedback or is interested to see what happens, if anything happens.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

That looks like BBA to me. which would more than likely be on slow growing plants and surfaces before you would see it on stems and other faster growing plants if at all.


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

asteriod said:


> That looks like BBA to me. which would more than likely be on slow growing plants and surfaces before you would see it on stems and other faster growing plants if at all.




It’s been around for a while and it isn’t growing hairy or brushy at all. It doesn’t respond to Excel or h2o2 at all. And the only plant it doesn’t seem to touch is the bacopa.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

varanidguy said:


> It’s been around for a while and it isn’t growing hairy or brushy at all. It doesn’t respond to Excel or h2o2 at all. And the only plant it doesn’t seem to touch is the bacopa.


I understand what your saying. Sometimes BBA doesn't grow bushy or furry looking. I guess it could be GSA or brown algae, but I still think it's a type of BBA. Either way as with most alga, shorten light cycle, more water changes, less organics and if possible more fast growing plants.


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

asteriod said:


> I understand what your saying. Sometimes BBA doesn't grow bushy or furry looking. I guess it could be GSA or brown algae, but I still think it's a type of BBA. Either way as with most alga, shorten light cycle, more water changes, less organics and if possible more fast growing plants.




I adjusted my 24/7 CC to have a few more hours of blackout time. I also noticed the water was kind of cloudy today and tested the water, it came up with 0.25 ppm of ammonia. 

That wood has got to go and it’ll be followed up with another water change despite being changed yesterday. This is concerning to say the least.


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## Cichlid-140 (Sep 28, 2018)

My $.02,

I don't know what it is.

Get the suspect wood out yesterday. Get the affected plant matter out too. It's gone - let go. Leave only healthy growth. 

Yes do another water change ... two days later do another ... and another ... you get the drill. Clean, Cleaner, Cleanest. 

Dust off the test kit wholesale and find out where you stand; Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, pH - do it all.

If you're injecting CO2 (you didn't say, or I didn't notice) check it too. Then check it again. Knowledge is power.

For my money the light should be reduced but not fully eliminated or the remaining plants will suffer - compounding the problem. Put 'em on a diet but don't starve 'em. Think extended period of partly cloudy days leaning more towards cloudy.

Get your remaining plants healthy and add some more if can - even if it's a temporary thing. Healthy plants are the best defense against most any algae IMO. They're your boots on the ground, put 'em to work.

Resign yourself to this as your job till it's done.

This has to be a war or it could easily win. Stop just thinking and fretting - get busy. You're there - we're not.

Keep the forum posted.

C-140


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

Cichlid-140 said:


> My $.02,
> 
> I don't know what it is.
> 
> ...


I do inject co2 via an in-line atomizer. Running a Finnex 24/7 Planted+ CC and a Finnex Fugeray Planted+ and the tank is a 40 breeder. Light schedule is the CC starts ramping up at 9 AM - full power by noon. Fugeray comes on at 1 PM and off at 6 PM - CC ramps down at 6 PM and blacked out by 9 PM - 12 hours of blackout time. This increased my blackout time by a solid 6 hours at least (I had the lights on but dimmer for viewing purposes).

There is an aquarium club meeting this Sunday I'm attending where I plan to pick up different hardscape. The new lighting schedule seems to have slowed the growth of whatever this stuff is significantly. The plants will be thinned as needed and I might do a bleach dip and see if that kills off this stuff.

Noted about water change frequency - I will ramp up my water changes to really clean up the waste of the tank.


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## Cichlid-140 (Sep 28, 2018)

Looks like you're on a good plan. Pursue it till you reach full success, not just the edge of it or you'll be doing it again.

How do you check your CO2 level?


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

Cichlid-140 said:


> Looks like you're on a good plan. Pursue it till you reach full success, not just the edge of it or you'll be doing it again.
> 
> How do you check your CO2 level?


I was doing a combination of checking pH and drop checker, but the suction cup on the checker has gone to crap, so now it's via pH and dKH then using the chart. I get about a 1.2 drop in pH before lights are at full intensity.


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## Cichlid-140 (Sep 28, 2018)

varanidguy said:


> I was doing a combination of checking pH and drop checker, but the suction cup on the checker has gone to crap, so now it's via pH and dKH then using the chart. I get about a 1.2 drop in pH before lights are at full intensity.


Sounds good. Never liked Drop Checkers - too subjective and I'm marginally color blind anyway.

O2? How's the oxygenation? Just concerned for your livestock while you work this through.

Do you know on which plant this first showed up or was it just everywhere at once?

Addendum:
BTW throw the chart in a drawer. It's only really worthwhile if all your alkalinity is carbonate based. Any other factors in there will throw it off. just use the pH drop. 

The equation { either CO2ppm = ((12.839* dKH)*((10^(6.37-pH))) or CO2ppm = ((15.65* dKH)*((10^(6.35-pH))) I can't find which is really valid.} clearly shows the relationship is proportional to 10 raised to the pH. To be accurate you really need to do an off gas pH test of tank water as a baseline to know where you really stand.


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

Cichlid-140 said:


> Sounds good. Never liked Drop Checkers - too subjective and I'm marginally color blind anyway.
> 
> O2? How's the oxygenation? Just concerned for your livestock while you work this through.
> 
> Do you know on which plant this first showed up or was it just everywhere at once?


I am using an intake with a surface skimmer and the output is a spray bar with a decent amount of agitation. Fish don't seem to be struggling at all and my CPO's are eating and growing. 

This first showed up on the java fern windelov and anubias, both plants are glued/attached to the suspect wood. It has since spread to many of the other plants.


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## Cichlid-140 (Sep 28, 2018)

Excessive light may have weakened the Java Fern and or the Anubias. Might want to back down the max intensity if your current protocol doesn't move from the problem slowing to improvement.


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

Cichlid-140 said:


> Excessive light may have weakened the Java Fern and or the Anubias. Might want to back down the max intensity if your current protocol doesn't move from the problem slowing to improvement.


10-4. The reason for the blasting of light is that's what keeps my ludwigia repens from shedding its lower leaves (it seems).

I've been thinking about replacing it anyway, really feel in love with staurogyne bihar.


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## Cichlid-140 (Sep 28, 2018)

High light and low light plants together is more than I want to deal with. That said I'll be keeping JF and Anubias with Jungle Vals. The trick (I hope) will be shading the JF with the Vals. That is if the Mbuna don't tear the Vals to shreds first. But none of that happens till I get through this seemingly interminable cycle.


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

Cichlid-140 said:


> High light and low light plants together is more than I want to deal with. That said I'll be keeping JF and Anubias with Jungle Vals. The trick (I hope) will be shading the JF with the Vals. That is if the Mbuna don't tear the Vals to shreds first. But none of that happens till I get through this seemingly interminable cycle.


Yeah, I've seen JF kept under high light without issues. This was doing alright until this plague happened. Some people on this forum say that they can blast slower growers with high light without major issues, but I'm just not that good yet.


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## Cichlid-140 (Sep 28, 2018)

varanidguy said:


> Yeah, I've seen JF kept under high light without issues. This was doing alright until this plague happened. Some people on this forum say that they can blast slower growers with high light without major issues, but I'm just not that good yet.


The formula has to exist or success wouldn't be possible, it just hasn't gotten to me (or you perhaps) yet. It was much the same with PO4 as an algae trigger. As soon as someone connected that that PO4 could actually be in limitation and the addition of more jacked up CO2 uptake it became clear that PO4 could be increased and should be. You just need to manage CO2 more closely to eliminate the instability there. We just need to know what it is the plants need to make them tolerant of the the increase in light. The answer is out there it's just not in clear view ... at least not to you and me ... yet.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Java Fern, Anubias, Buce etc. all grow way better, with way less algae in my high light tanks over the years. They grow quite fast. Yes, some of the older leaves are prone to algae, but no algae covered leave is immune to a sharp set of scissors  

If you put in a tiny amount of work into low tech plants in a high tech tank, they can and will be stunning samples of that plant species.


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## Cichlid-140 (Sep 28, 2018)

Sounds promising. I'll be attaching my Java Fern to rocks so it'l be easily mobile. I'll play with placing it higher in the rock work and see what the results are. I picked my light (Micmol Aqua Air) with the lesser demand in mind but it can deliver fairly well near the surface. Any suggestions or observations?


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

I'm debating whether to even replace this wood with wood. I was thinking about doing some kind of rock formation instead, now that I have no pleco in the tank, wood isn't necessarily required.


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## Cichlid-140 (Sep 28, 2018)

varanidguy said:


> I'm debating whether to even replace this wood with wood. I was thinking about doing some kind of rock formation instead, now that I have no pleco in the tank, wood isn't necessarily required.


???

I'm putting two BN Pleco's in my tank. Did I miss a memo?


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

Cichlid-140 said:


> ???
> 
> I'm putting two BN Pleco's in my tank. Did I miss a memo?



With some species of pleco, it is necessary to have driftwood in the tank for them because they will actually eat some of it and they can't properly digest their food without it.

My BN would rasp the wood constantly, but I've read conflicting reports regarding the necessity of wood in their diet. I wound up removing him from the tank because he also liked to eat plants. Reports indicate that a BN pleco eating plants is hit or miss, mine was definitely hit and it was pretty bad. YMMV


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## Cichlid-140 (Sep 28, 2018)

Well that satisfies the new thing I needed to learn today. I try to go for at least one per day.

It's Miller Time.


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

Cichlid-140 said:


> Well that satisfies the new thing I needed to learn today. I try to go for at least one per day.
> 
> It's Miller Time.


Cheers! I'm gonna go home and have a Modelo or three after work. lol


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## Cichlid-140 (Sep 28, 2018)

Actually I'm allergic to beer. Seriously, it's tragic and sad. But now that you mention it, a margarita don't sound bad at all.


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

Cichlid-140 said:


> Actually I'm allergic to beer. Seriously, it's tragic and sad. But now that you mention it, a margarita don't sound bad at all.




Oh man...my deepest condolences.


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## Cichlid-140 (Sep 28, 2018)

Thanks - we all have our crosses ...


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## Cichlid-140 (Sep 28, 2018)

Just got a text from a guy over on the Cichlid Forum that raises Mbuna. He's offered to give me two groups {1M/5F} ( Yellow Lab's, and White Top Hara's) he sent a pic of the Male Yellow lab and two holding females that should include some of my future stock.

Bump: Just got a text from a guy over on the Cichlid Forum that raises Mbuna. He's offered to give me two groups {1M/5F} ( Yellow Lab's, and White Top Hara's) he sent a pic of the Male Yellow lab and two holding females that should include some of my future stock.


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

Cichlid-140 said:


> Just got a text from a guy over on the Cichlid Forum that raises Mbuna. He's offered to give me two groups {1M/5F} ( Yellow Lab's, and White Top Hara's) he sent a pic of the Male Yellow lab and two holding females that should include some of my future stock.
> 
> Bump: Just got a text from a guy over on the Cichlid Forum that raises Mbuna. He's offered to give me two groups {1M/5F} ( Yellow Lab's, and White Top Hara's) he sent a pic of the Male Yellow lab and two holding females that should include some of my future stock.


Those are some beauties, congrats!


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## Cichlid-140 (Sep 28, 2018)

How goes the war?


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

Cichlid-140 said:


> How goes the war?




It begins in earnest in a couple of days. My club had a meet yesterday where I was able to get a new, properly treated piece of Malaysian driftwood. It started soaking last night and this morning the water was surprisingly clear so it’ll be able to be added very soon. I didn’t remove the piece of offending wood because it would remove hiding places from the CPO’s which could result in aggression.

I will say that the change in my lighting schedule has appeared to improve things.


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## Cichlid-140 (Sep 28, 2018)

varanidguy said:


> It begins in earnest in a couple of days. My club had a meet yesterday where I was able to get a new, properly treated piece of Malaysian driftwood. It started soaking last night and this morning the water was surprisingly clear so it’ll be able to be added very soon. I didn’t remove the piece of offending wood because it would remove hiding places from the CPO’s which could result in aggression.
> 
> *CPO's are crayfish, right? Never kept any so I'm not familiar with the abbreviation.*
> 
> I will say that the change in my lighting schedule has appeared to improve things.


Good to hear.


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

Yessir, CPO’s are a dwarf Mexican crayfish and they’re bred for orange coloration. Beautiful and fun little creatures.


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

The new wood was added last night. I peeled off all the old java fern from the previous piece and WOW was it dirty. I had to rinse the plants three times in tank water before the water being used was no longer brown.

I tested the old piece of wood and it was soft and smelled like an eggy fart. I think there’s some real credence to it causing problems now.

I did a 50% water change when replacing the wood.


Updated picture:


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## Cichlid-140 (Sep 28, 2018)

For my money:

Wait, Watch, Update.

Looking good, though.


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

Cichlid-140 said:


> For my money:
> 
> Wait, Watch, Update.
> 
> Looking good, though.




No other choice now lol.

But it’s proper aquarium Malaysian driftwood that’s been treated and soaked. It shouldn’t give the same problems as the previous piece, hopefully this was the problem.

Bump: I got home and the water is crystal clear (minus micro bubbles from co2). Water tested for 0.0 ppm of ammonia so that makes me happy. With the previous wood it seemed there was always a readable amount of ammonia in there. Day one is already looking promising!


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## Cichlid-140 (Sep 28, 2018)

_{low level}_ Woo Hoo


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

Plants are looking cleaner now! New plants are getting zero “algae” on them, and the ones that have it continue to improve.


















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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

The cause of the algae seems to be taken care of as it has stopped spreading and even died back a bit, but there is still some holding on.

I’ll be switching to dry ferts after the next water change (every Saturday) and on that day, I’m going to try the 1-2 punch as it’s been reported successful. This appears to be “black spot algae”, but I don’t know much about it or find much info on it outside of pools. I’m also going to add more staurogyne porto Velho to increase plant mass and try to fill out the front of the tank a little more.

Update photos:














































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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

Well I administered the 1-2 punch today so we will see how that goes. Today is also the first official day of dosing the tank with dry fertilizers. So little of that stuff goes a long way.


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

Well, a couple days after the 1-2 punch, there appears to have been zero difference made. The good news is it didn’t harm any of the livestock. So I took a piece of anubias that’s infected and performed a bleach dip. 19 parts water to 1 part bleach, soaked for 1.5 minutes. The black spots on the leaves seemed to immediately disappear, revealing green spot algae underneath it (!), and parts where it is thicker more like a film turned red.

It’s in a QT tank and it was thoroughly dechlorinated afterwards. We’ll see if the plant pulls through and, if it does, if it kills this black stuff from hell.

I’m also wondering if a 72 hour blackout would work as well, because even if the anubias is just fine from the treatment, that doesn’t mean stems would be...


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

8 days later:

The plant that got the bleach dip did well. Killed off probably 90% of the algae and it hasn’t come back.

The one that had phosphorus directly applied had a decent amount disappear as well. Kind of giving credence to my hunch this Black Plague might be a sort of GSA or something similar that responds to similar treatment.

I have given up on peroxide and Excel treatments as they have yielded no results whatsoever.

I’m going to test this in the main tank by not dosing nitrates for a week (they may be a little high anyway) and dosing some extra phosphate.

Bleach dipped plant:









Phosphate “dipped” plant (Seachem Phosphate applied directly to algae infested leaves out of water):










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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

About 20 days later, I have eradicated the black menace. A combination of attacking it with H2O2, Excel, increasing co2, and tank cleanliness seems to have gotten that particular algae to subside.

However in a cruel twist of fate, what appears to be GDA has popped up. I’m at a loss....thinking of trying a 3 day blackout.

Anyone out there in Planted Tank land have insight or suggestions? 
































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