# My 4ft tank. Need comment to improve. (Updated 11-05-06)



## ching4ever (Feb 17, 2005)

My tank info:

Tank : 4ftx 1.5ft x 1.5ft
CO2 : 2.5L CO2 cylinder, 1-3 bps, reactor 24H open
Light : 3 x Philips 865 FL 36W , 1 X Azoo Super Light 40W
Filter : DIY RO Filter 3600H/L

Any comment also welcome. Still need a lot of improvement.


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## andyg (Oct 9, 2004)

Nice tank. How old is it? Interesting plant set up, I'm guessing on Java Moss on the bottom right as well as a moss wall? 
The only recomendation that comes to mind at this time is a dark background, it would help showing off the fauna & flora. Keep the tread updated with pics.
Andy


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## ching4ever (Feb 17, 2005)

andyg said:


> Nice tank. How old is it? Interesting plant set up, I'm guessing on Java Moss on the bottom right as well as a moss wall?
> The only recomendation that comes to mind at this time is a dark background, it would help showing off the fauna & flora. Keep the tread updated with pics.
> Andy


Thanks!!
It is a around 4 months old tank. Start at new year eve till now. 
Yup. It is Java Moss on the bottom right as foreground plant and java moss wall and mountain at behind.
I also wish to add a dark background but cannot unless i rescape the tank again because the tank is stick to the wall, not able to move it around to add the background.
I'll keep on update the tread!


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## Steven_Chong (Sep 14, 2004)

Nice growth. 

As for design comments,

first of all, I don't like moss walls, at least not when they are flat like most. The goal of most aquariums is to try to evoke the sense of greater space than the tank actually holds-- to make it a BIG looking place. That cannot happen when a moss wall draws attention to the _wall_ of the tank, making the viewer look there and be stuck in the reality that what he sees before him is just a box with plants in it. This retraction from the beauty of the tanks happens especially in your case since the moss wall only reaches halfway up the wall, looking even more artificial. The "square" shape of the mesh it is attached to becomes blatantly obvious with it's artificial 90-degree angles.

Similarly, foreground plants should probably not be arranged in a perfect square like the moss (riccia?) you have on the right. Either have no foreground plants, completely cover the foreground with plants, or make the lines of the foreground plants tactfully and naturally end and start when it reaches a place you want bare foreground.

Last of all, it looks very strange when some plants are found in a huge group in only one part of the tank. It looks more natural if the same plant is found in different places in the tank that balance each other out, creating harmony. The idea is use plants throughout the tank, but make the proportions of their presence vary a lot so that different areas have MORE of one type of plant. This looks natural while breaking up uniformity in the display. A good way is to make red plants have greater presence on one side than the other. Red plants in the middle are generally considered a bad (or at least risky) idea.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Designing is a lot of personal taste, so what looks good to one might not go along the lines what some great mind decided should look good.

My suggestions for improvement would be to pull out or hide equipment (again, some aren't bothered by looking at stuff, I am) and add a background to the tank where, again, personal preferences play a big role. You should be able to slide a piece of black cardboard behind the tank?

Can you describe your <<Filter : DIY RO Filter 3600H/L>> ?


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## ching4ever (Feb 17, 2005)

greenmiddlefinger said:


> Nice growth.
> 
> As for design comments,
> 
> ...


Thanks a lot for your comment. I'll try my best to make it better. 

For the point you said, "It looks more natural if the same plant is found in different places in the tank", I not very understand and get it quite confused. Because normally I heard from other forum, they always said that group the same plant together instead of spread it at different places? Even the magazine i bought also saying the same thing, actually which one would be better for the nicer look?

I still not dare to try red plant because of my lighting and fertilizer problem. Since i didn't put in any base fertilizer and just use the root fertilizer to cover it and use only PMDD for the liquid fert. For the lighting, FL really not enough for 18" high tank, change to HQI or PL maybe better for red plant growing.


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## ching4ever (Feb 17, 2005)

Wasserpest said:


> Designing is a lot of personal taste, so what looks good to one might not go along the lines what some great mind decided should look good.
> 
> My suggestions for improvement would be to pull out or hide equipment (again, some aren't bothered by looking at stuff, I am) and add a background to the tank where, again, personal preferences play a big role. You should be able to slide a piece of black cardboard behind the tank?
> 
> Can you describe your <<Filter : DIY RO Filter 3600H/L>> ?


If i got the money, i'll change to canister filter to hide the equipment instead of showing it out so clearly and make the look ugly. Maybe next time when i take the photo, i'll try to pull out the equipment first.

Yeah~ How come i didn't think of the black cardboard to put behind the tank, i always thinking those background paper to stick on the glass tank only....

For the diy filter, you can see the from the picture, a big normal top filter in front of the tank is the power head to suck the water from the tank. Then it will push the water from the tank to the ro filter box below the tank and push it back to the tank. See the ro filter box picture below:


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## Steven_Chong (Sep 14, 2004)

Like wasserpest said, there is a lot of personal taste involved. A lot of aquascapers in South East Asia really like walls of moss or liverworts-- though it is a trade off like I mentioned above. Amano has never used a moss wall, and I'm pretty sure it's for the reason I mentioned. Once again though, such a wall is an eye-catcher.

About the issue of groups v. spread out, I'm suggesting compromise. There are some aquaria, especially "garden style" tanks. Organized groups are put together throughout. If you like European flower gardens, that style may be attractive. Nature aquarists, including myself though, will tell you that this type of scape feels life-less, and lacking in harmony. It looks artificial-- because it is.

In any given enviroment in nature, be it a meadow or a jungle, it is rare to find spots in the same environment where a plant can grow in one spot, but cannot grow in a spot within two feet of it (unless lighitng interferes, and there is no interference in your tank). In otherwords if the environment is suited to the moss where it is, than it is also suited where the vals are, and visa-versa. Therefore, it makes sense for plants to be growing in more than one place in the tank.

On one side, the danger is putting all the plants all over, which will make the display look monotonous, and un-exciting.

On the other side, making the plants appear in only one place, and giving each plant a specific section, will look artificial.

The compromise is to group plants, but to group them in multiple groups that can range in size. 3 groups is popular, especially with support plants such as bolbitis and anubias. With foreground and mid-ground plants, mixing can also be effective-- or planting slightly taller plants to highlight shorter ones in the foreground.

Background plants, especially red stem plants are a bit trickier, because they often draw a lot of attention, and may weaken each other in multiple groups. Tall grassy plants like vals, sagitteria natans, giant hair grass and taller crypts can be grown in single groups that are very impressive, or be used as high-lights spread amongst various stem plant groups.

Ultimately, the "rules" of all styles are guidlines only-- they're made to be broken, or compromised between. You go with a few, and do what you can to make it look good. Man do I talk too much when I get going. Shutting up now-- later.

Edit: PS-- I didn't really comment on your middle background, because I like it! It's pretty strong!


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## ching4ever (Feb 17, 2005)

greenmiddlefinger said:


> Like wasserpest said, there is a lot of personal taste involved. A lot of aquascapers in South East Asia really like walls of moss or liverworts-- though it is a trade off like I mentioned above. Amano has never used a moss wall, and I'm pretty sure it's for the reason I mentioned. Once again though, such a wall is an eye-catcher.
> 
> About the issue of groups v. spread out, I'm suggesting compromise. There are some aquaria, especially "garden style" tanks. Organized groups are put together throughout. If you like European flower gardens, that style may be attractive. Nature aquarists, including myself though, will tell you that this type of scape feels life-less, and lacking in harmony. It looks artificial-- because it is.
> 
> ...


Wow. U really give a good leason for me. I didn't think of that before as I just follow blindly to what I learn from those forum and magazine. :icon_roll 

What you said really true, different places did got different types of taste for the aquascapping. Like moss wall, i seldom see it from any of you guys but saw it from asia forum a lot of people like it. I also learn from there.

greenmiddlefinger, can I see your tank picture? I hope can try different kind of method instead of follow what i learn before. roud:


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## joan (Apr 25, 2005)

I find the moss walls really interesting. I'm intrigued by the possibility of trying one someday, although greenmiddlefinger's comments are interesting and make a lot of sense. I'm wondering if a moss wall were incorporated in a way that it looked more natural how that would be? What I'm thinking is that it starts on one end of the tank at near to full height, or maybe about 2/3s height, then using some nice curves you gradually slope it down until it disappears part way down the tank? I was thinking this combined with a nice dark background outside the tank could make a really striking backdrop. Thoughts?

Anyway, I'm a beginner at this myself, ching4ever, so I can't offer you much wisdom, but I do agree with others that the equipment detracts from the appearance of your tank and if you could hide it with a background it would help a lot. I think you're off to a nice start with all your plants and they all seem to be growing nicely. Good luck! roud:


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## ching4ever (Feb 17, 2005)

joan said:


> I find the moss walls really interesting. I'm intrigued by the possibility of trying one someday, although greenmiddlefinger's comments are interesting and make a lot of sense. I'm wondering if a moss wall were incorporated in a way that it looked more natural how that would be? What I'm thinking is that it starts on one end of the tank at near to full height, or maybe about 2/3s height, then using some nice curves you gradually slope it down until it disappears part way down the tank? I was thinking this combined with a nice dark background outside the tank could make a really striking backdrop. Thoughts?
> 
> Anyway, I'm a beginner at this myself, ching4ever, so I can't offer you much wisdom, but I do agree with others that the equipment detracts from the appearance of your tank and if you could hide it with a background it would help a lot. I think you're off to a nice start with all your plants and they all seem to be growing nicely. Good luck! roud:


Actually my moss wall was not good enough. The moss wall i saw from others friend in another forum, was really pretty. Their moss wall is cover up the whole background instead of what i having right now. Because i just buy some only and thinking to let it grow it self to to make it more and more to cover the background.

Yeah~ Seem all comments is adding a black background, i'll try to make it fast.

Don't say like that, i'm also a beginner, that's why i need your guys comments to improve. The equipment problem will solve it as fast as i could by changing to external canister or take out when taking photo. roud: 

Thanks~~


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## Steven_Chong (Sep 14, 2004)

joan said:


> I'm wondering if a moss wall were incorporated in a way that it looked more natural how that would be?


There is one way I know. 

It is an old concept to vivarium builders, but less tried in aquariums because of issues with weight on the back wall. That way is to create depth on the wall, by constructing a wall of rocks or wood attached to the back wall of the aquarium, and then attaching the plants mosses to all of these. Because the stones and wood create depth and different contours than a flat wall, the moss wall in the back would seem real, natural, and would not at all make the viewer feel that the tank is small-looking because of it. :icon_bigg 

The tough part is constructing a wall that does not put too much weight on the glass wall in back when the tank is filled, and also keeping the plants moist while the silicone used to attach the stone/wood dries. Cork bark is popular in vivariums and is water safe, but it floats. However, if siliconed tightly to the back wall, it might work . . .


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## ching4ever (Feb 17, 2005)

Added background, what you guys think?


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

It looks a lot better, plants and fish are more visible. Is that all java moss on the right?


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## ching4ever (Feb 17, 2005)

Jdinh04 said:


> It looks a lot better, plants and fish are more visible. Is that all java moss on the right?


Thanks. I just testing for it only. don't whether black color will better then blue color anot? Next time i'll try it with black color background and take out all the equipment as well.

Yes. It is all java moss, can't find another type of moss. anyone can post me some?


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## ching4ever (Feb 17, 2005)

Jdinh04 said:


> It looks a lot better, plants and fish are more visible. Is that all java moss on the right?


Thanks. I just testing for it only. don't whether black color will better then blue color anot? Next time i'll try it with black color background and take out all the equipment as well.

Yes. It is all java moss, can't find another type of moss. anyone can post me some? :tongue:


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Even without the equiptment pulled, IMO that background provides an excellent contrast. A simple, but effective, improvement to be sure!roud:


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## ching4ever (Feb 17, 2005)

scolley said:


> Even without the equiptment pulled, IMO that background provides an excellent contrast. A simple, but effective, improvement to be sure!roud:


Thanks a lot! I'll keep it update~


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## ching4ever (Feb 17, 2005)

Just did a rescape last week. the photo taken is quite blur because the water is full of dust. i can't get the plant i want so i just use back the same plant but put it at different places only.

right now my problem is, i dunno where should put my moss? if i put it at right back corner to form a mountain and beside it plant some background plant, is the look ok? or any else suggestion for me to make the layout better? if i move the moss away, i'll plant the hairgrass in the middle to form a U-shape layout, is it ok also?

thanks for all the helping~~!!


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## ching4ever (Feb 17, 2005)

A total rescape done. Any comment? Better or worst? 
Still searching for black color background. Don't think i want to use black card board, not nice....


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## qoperator (Apr 13, 2005)

It looks great. It looks more like a habitat tank now. Great work. Oh what happened to the background? roud:


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## Mellyn (Jul 20, 2005)

Neato! I like it.

As for the background, you could buy black posterboard. It might have to be cut to fit, but it's pretty cheap.


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## ching4ever (Feb 17, 2005)

qoperator : thanks! u mean the moss background or the background paper?

Mellyn : thanks! ok, i'll go try and search for it!


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## Pete City (Apr 2, 2005)

A nice improvement, the tank is really evolving into something nice.What species of plant is that growing on the driftwood to the left? Is it a moss of some sort.


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## StUk_In_AfRiKa (Jan 30, 2005)

That's a really nice improvement


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

ching4ever said:


> Still searching for black color background. Don't think i want to use black card board, not nice...


I don't know what you call it in there, but in the states they have a product called "foam core", which is a high quality cardboard laminated onto a similar colored hard plastic air bubble filled foam. It's about 4mm thick, and stiff. So it works well as a background. 

The best part is that the black pieces are flat, or matte, so they are not shiny - not reflective. So it makes a background that seems to recede into nothing. I suppose it's a black background that you don't "see".


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## ching4ever (Feb 17, 2005)

Pete City : thanks! happy to hear that! it is the pelia.

StUk_In_AfRiKa : thanks! i still got long way to go.

scolley : wow, it is nice if it is not reflective. not sure can find such thing in my place or not. small place is like this, everything also can't find. anyway, thanks for the help, i'll go search for it and update the photo.


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## andyg (Oct 9, 2004)

You've come a long way since your first pic. Love the new layout, that Pelia island in a sea of moss is striking. 
Like Scolley suggested, foamcore make an ideal background.


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## ching4ever (Feb 17, 2005)

andyg : thanks for the comment! i did a lot of research only come out of this idea. actually i just change all the plant placement and add in a big wood only, didn't add in any new plant. i'll try look for the background, thanks!


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## ching4ever (Feb 17, 2005)

Latest update. change the layout a bit, added black color paper as background, added some drift wood which i can found that got some short branch(search for so long time...). Still looking for glosso for the foreground, now got little bit hairgrass but glow extreamly slow....

Any comment about it? Since like the old one which moss foreground better huh?


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## Steven_Chong (Sep 14, 2004)

This last pic is undoubtedly the best-- there is good midground development, which seems well balanced form the photo (but I'm having a hard time making out the right side of the tank from the photo).

Nice job man. :icon_bigg 

-middle midground, "hair line" of the background is visible (the place where the stems go into the substrate). This should be hidden with moss or anubias.


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## ching4ever (Feb 17, 2005)

greenmiddlefinger: wow, thanks for the fast reply. the right side is a bit dark, i'll try add more light and take a new pic. thanks for the comment for middle midground, i'll try harder on that place.


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## matthewburk (Sep 22, 2005)

I liked your first rescape the best, especially the flowing grasses hanging over from the right side. Your newest one is good too, but I prefer the first. I'm impressed by how quickly you improved the look though, nice progress. Im pretty new to this stuff too and still working on getting an aquascape I like.


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

I thought the moss worked well in your scape. :wink:


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## ching4ever (Feb 17, 2005)

matthewburk: the first rescape is my second time rescape, the first one i didn't post coz die off bcoz of algae problem. thanks for the comment. i also newbie to aquascape, good luck to you also. for my view, get help from a designer, their idea mostly pretty good. the latest scape, my sister(study as designer) give me the idea to manage the new drift wood.

Buck: yup. but it keep a lot of dirt and some of them infected by hair algae bcoz of dose too much of fert. still got plenty of moss keep in the tank, all cover by the drift wood only. most of them was throw to my guppy tank bcoz of hair algae problem.


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## Steven_Chong (Sep 14, 2004)

I felt like a lot of the moss-involved scapes looked like "two different tanks"

Though I feel really bad if I discouraged you from the moss-wall idea . . . :icon_frow 

I like the black-neon/SAE combo too-- they match. :fish: :fish:


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## ching4ever (Feb 17, 2005)

greenmiddlefinger: personally, myself not like moss wall idea in a planted tank which don't have those special "background". for a shrimp tank it is much more better.

yup, i like the SAE also. they always swim together from here to there looking for food only.


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## ching4ever (Feb 17, 2005)

Update!! Change the layout again. Any comment about this layout?


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## turtlehead (May 31, 2005)

I think this is the best so far nice job.


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## krazykidd86 (Jul 27, 2005)

*Beautiful!*

I just started reading this thread. And wow, you went through a lot of changes and adapted to the advice given here very well. I liked the previous photo-aquascape better, because of the dark greens, but this one works very well too. Great Job! You've improved so much! Absolutely amazing! :wink: 

Keep it Rockin roud: 

the KIDD


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## shuks (Jul 10, 2005)

> I think this is the best so far nice job.


me too......


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## BoxxerBoyDrew (Oct 16, 2005)

ching4ever,

You are getting much better aquascapes as you go along! The tank is looking GREAT, and I have liked the moss on the levt with the plants overhanging! It looked as if it was a hill side with an scrub of trees to rest under in the afternoon sun! But like I said the last few have looked good as well! Keep up the good work! roud: 

Drew


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## ching4ever (Feb 17, 2005)

turtlehead: thanks!

krazykidd86: thank you. just still my learning stage. still need to learn a lot from u guys!

shuks: thanks!

BoxxerBoyDrew: thank you. i want to make a mountain and grass field view but cant find any rock at my place so force to use DW. so far u the first one say it look like a hill side, so happy to hear that!


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## ching4ever (Feb 17, 2005)

After a long time thinking, i decided to rescape the whole tank, this resape including taking out all the sand and wash it. throw out some fast growing plant.

I'm still finding some extreamly slow growing foreground plant to cover the blank foreground, any idea for what plant shoud i choose? The slowest foreground plant i can think is hairgrass :icon_frow 

Anyway, i need you guys expert to give me some comment for the new scape. Thank you.


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## shuks (Jul 10, 2005)

New scape looks great ching! The only thing I would do is add a group of tall stem plants in the back right corner, then cover the open area with HC.


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## aquasox (Sep 3, 2005)

Personally I think it looks outstanding.:bounce: I really like the moss wall and patch on the bottom...the only thing I'm not sure about is the flat edge on top of the wall. Perhaps if the shape was a bit irregular at the top it would look even better.

Removal of the equipment as stated earlier would make the tank look next to perfect :thumbsup:

Haha I just realized I was making comments about one of the earlier renditions of your tank...new versions are cool too.


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## Marilyn1998 (Mar 8, 2006)

I like alot of the scapes you did! Just an FYI.... discus will darken against dark colors. Did you notice your pigeon blood almost go black when you had the black background? I REALLY liked the blue background. what was that??
I am looking for a light blue nonrelfective background.

Great pics! Love the scapes!


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## bigstick120 (May 23, 2005)

HC, blyxa japonica maybe, I like that look alot


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

wow i think that is the best scape yet
that or the other one where you did the same type of thing but used the moss too...

-=- fish newb -=-


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## ching4ever (Feb 17, 2005)

shuks : thanks for the suggestion. not going to use stem plant because it growing too fast. open area, i trying glosso now, maybe will change to hairgrass.

aquasox : hehe... old scape look not that nice so only rescape it.

Marilyn1998 : i've already gave away the discus to my friend. because it chase and ate my neon tetra.

bigstick120 : blyxa japonica i think not suitable to my tank. there are no base fertilizer in my tank. HC... maybe will give it a try. i'm trying glosso now first.

Fish Newb : thank you!


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