# Lighting for 100 gallon tank



## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Not sure what you mean by recessed ends... 

The cheapest way to light a tank like this would probably to run 4 T8 bulbs on a Workhorse 7 ballast. White or specular aluminum reflectors will increase the light going into the tank instead of bouncing around in the hood.

The WH7 overdrives the bulbs slightly, so you get more than 32W out of them.

This would be a better solution than two shoplights with 40W bulbs. There are some cheap Philips Daylight T8 bulbs for sale in Home Depots (at least here), and you could look through DrsFosterSmith and BigAls and such websites for plant-dedicated bulbs.

The GE P&A bulbs are pretty horrible IMO.


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

What's your budget?


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## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

what watt of t8 bulbs are u talking about....if your talking about 32 watts for 4 then thats less watts then what i have now. I dont know what my set budget is exactly...I just cant afford anything really expensive. I want some like i already have but just more watts.


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## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

please...anybody...


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

Lighting is not cheap. You first need to get an idea of how much you want to spend and what your goals are.

Do you want to keep a lot of high light plants or are you content to stick with lower light plants?


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## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

I dont mind having low to medium light plants. I just want about 2 watts per gallon or maybe 2.2 watts per gallon.


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## darkfury18 (Apr 1, 2006)

Overdrive them? Though there are some concern with safety issues, it works well for me. I have two T8 providing 125 watts to a 50 gallon..


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

There is more to life than wattage.

T8's are more efficient than T12's, so even though there is less watt, there is more lumen (light output).

T8's overdrive better than T12's. When you connect them to the ballast I mentioned, they will be overdriven and output more light.

You asked for cheap, and this is IMO the cheapest way to get some light into your tank. Using HO T5's with good reflectors, or PC lights, will give you more lights and Watts, but it won't be that cheap.


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## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

Ok i talked to a light proffessional and he said that with the fixtures I have now(which are shoplights) are not even putting out the total watts and lumens of the bulbs that I have now. So im not even getting the total watts i thought I was(160watts). So he suggested changing the ballasts for each fixture and replacing the bulbs with some called Triton 50 which have:
-3600 Lumens
-40watts each
-5000K

So I would have the same amount of watts as before but I would actually be getting all of it...lol. And he said that the lumens were alot higher that normal so that is good too. The color temp. isnt as high but i think that is ok. he also has some metal silver coated reflectors that he is going to place onto my fixtures for better reflection. So how does this sound everybody?


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## BlueRam (Sep 21, 2004)

It you are changing the ballast, make the switch to A) electronic and B) T8. Better bulb with more light and less energy consumption.


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## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

so then my plan isnt good? Or is it ok?


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## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

ok i got something different now! Im sorry! Ok here goes......Im getting four High Output T12 bulbs:
-55 watts
-6500K
-Recessed DC Base 
-3000 lumens

So there will be 220 watts total over the 100 gallon, which is 2.2 watts per gallon. I know these bulbs arent as efficent at T8 bulbs but they provide more watts which is what I want. But with 2.2 wpg I still wont need to add CO2 i dont think....so tell me what yall think please!


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## BlueRam (Sep 21, 2004)

So the T12 series as whole and particularly the HO are on the way out.

The T12 VHO seems to be popular with the reefer crowd though:icon_conf 

So since you are willing to hunt down a new HO ballast and HO specific endcaps and then rewire everything...

May I suggest T5 HO instead. The Fulham workhorse ballast will power T12 NO/HO/VHO, T8, T10, T5 NO/HO etc so no worries there. The endcaps for T5 are out there </>supporting link</>. The T5 is a little shorter but if you are already replacing endcaps. </>Link to T5 HO site with reasonable $</>

So in the end 4X55W T5HO is going to be SO MUCH brighter than 4X55W T12HO that you might be able to use fewer bulbs too.

The T12 HO is the left-handed wing nut of the lighting world?


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## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

well i didnt have to hunt for the fixture of ballast or anything. I had my lighting guy order it all for me. It should be here in about a week. So is what I got ok or not?


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## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

anyone????


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## darkfury18 (Apr 1, 2006)

It's okay, but as wasserpest pointed out there's more to it than just wattage or lumens.

1) Lumen is a measurement that is based off of our eyes so it might be bright for us but useless to plants, but bulbs in the 6500k range should be fine

2) 55 watts and 3000 lumens sounds really inefficient to me.. (philips daylight deluxe T8 - cheapo at home depot - 2800 lumens for 32 watts)

3) How are the reflectors in the fixture? A lot of light that's not going in the tank is still wasted light... in this respect, T5s are the best because of their size, you can fit a really nice reflector in for each bulb..


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

RachPreach said:


> ok i got something different now! Im sorry! Ok here goes......Im getting four High Output T12 bulbs:
> -55 watts
> -6500K
> -Recessed DC Base
> ...



That will be just great for your lowlight 100G. Sure, T8 which are a little skinnier bulb and more efficient with the slightly overdriven workhorse 7 ballast would be better, but if the price is right and he's getting you some decent reflectors, I'm sure you'll see a big difference in the battle with the algae. I think Blue ram had the best suggestion or also Wasserpests, but this will work. Its just not the trend today. Most are going with HO T5s or T8s, but I imagine T12s will be around for awhile. If you could get him to change to High Output T5s or T8s that would be better and take up less space. Its good you are getting the 6500K lamps.:thumbsup:


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## DiabloCanine (Aug 26, 2005)

I'll answer this for you. If you paid the amount you wanted for the lighting you wanted then you did OK! Now if it works the way you want it then you did great.....DC



RachPreach said:


> well i didnt have to hunt for the fixture of ballast or anything. I had my lighting guy order it all for me. It should be here in about a week. So is what I got ok or not?


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## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

The reason why im not using T8 bulbs is because the watts are alot lower and I couldnt get 2 watts per gallon. I know, I know watts arent everything...but i think the bulbs that the guy is getting for me might have a higher lumen number than i thought so....


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## acbaldwin (Mar 23, 2006)

The thing about watts per gallon is that all bulbs are not created equal. Watts is *only* a measure of energy consumed, not light produced. As flourescents get smaller in diameter, they generally become more efficient. These days, watts are a measure of nothing, other than how much your electricity bill will be at the end of the month . Here's a comparison of how much light a T12 puts out compared to a lot of the other lighting options out there:

bulb ...... Lumens/watt ...... Eq T12 watts
T12 ...... 58.9........................1
T10 ...... 62.3.......................1.06
T8 ...... 91.1.......................1.55
T5 ...... 104.......................1.77
T5HO...... 92.6 ....................1.57
MH ...... 84.1.......................1.43
CF ...... 79.4.......................1.35

Color is another factor. For viewing and growing purposes, 6500K - 10000K is the range you want to shoot for. Most folks seem to go with an equal mix of both colors. 5000K is pushing it, and your plants will seem rather pink.
The reflectors are also very important. The parabolic mylar reflectors that AHsupply.com sells are considered one of the best. Thet make sure that nearly all light gets into the tank, which is over 150% more light than a flat sheet of shiny aluminum will get you. White paint on the inside of your light fixture is another very cheap and very effective way to reflect the light into your tank. Polished aluminum and other similar methods are pretty poor in their reflective abilities.
Wasserpest's suggestion is pretty solid, and actually very economical. Workhorse 7 ballasts are pretty cheap. T8 bulbs are very cheap, efficient, and quite a bit more intense than T12s. You can even mount these bulbs within your existing shoplight reflector, which I believe is white paint.


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## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

ok well ive already ordered these bulbs and fixture to go with it so i think it will work out fine....hopefully...Thank you for yall's help


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## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

now i feel discouraged becuase i feel like what im getting isnt good enough....


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## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

ok so tell me which T8 bulbs i need to get?


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## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

And can I put them in my fixture that i have now? Its from walmart and the brand is "Lights of America"


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## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

This is a link to the light fixture i have...http://www.lightsofamerica.com/sl.htm and then click on specifications....


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## BlueRam (Sep 21, 2004)

I have tried to be real careful to not flatly say that it won't work, I just want to go on record saying that HO T12 (42" at that) are strange. It may do exactly what you need. Hard to tell. 

If you are looking at replacing the ballast, endcaps, and fixture you might be better served with a standard upgrade path.

These include aquiring a workhorse 7 (it looks like the price has gone up) with NO T18 bulbs (slip old T12 out, cut wires to old ballast, use wirenuts to splice in new ballast* as per diagram, install new T8 and plug in!) *electronic ballasts like to be shunted... need to think about this...


Otherwise you could buy 2X Advance REL-4P32-SC ballast and do 2X ODNO as per this link:http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/lighting/21257-odno-measurements-power-consumption-vs-light.html
installation is same as above with each bulb hooked up twice (poor-mans-T8HO). Again you can use the same endcaps and fixtures.

So just be sure to take a before and after pic so we can all see!




RachPreach said:


> now i feel discouraged becuase i feel like what im getting isnt good enough....


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## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

ok well im wanting to look into the T8 bulbs and keep the fixture I got and maybe change out the ballast to the workhorse 7. I put a link to the light fixture I had to see if it was nessisary to change the ballast or not. Please look.


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## BlueRam (Sep 21, 2004)

Maybe. If it is an magnetic ballast there is a chance that it will drive a 32W T8 at 40W (slight overdrive) but it kinda looks like it is the opposite with 32W on a 40 W T12 (slight underdrive).

Using an electronic ballast will give you more light at the same watt rating. Keep in mind that the WH 7 will drive all 4 lamps so the 2 fixtures will be connected.

The lamp pins are interchangeable.



RachPreach said:


> ok well im wanting to look into the T8 bulbs and keep the fixture I got and maybe change out the ballast to the workhorse 7. I put a link to the light fixture I had to see if it was necessary to change the ballast or not. Please look.


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## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

So i could get one ballast to used on all 4 bulbs?? The light guy that came to my house said that the fixture was electronic so...I could just get him to use one workhorse 7 ballast for both fixtures??


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## acbaldwin (Mar 23, 2006)

RachPreach said:


> So i could get one ballast to used on all 4 bulbs?? The light guy that came to my house said that the fixture was electronic so...I could just get him to use one workhorse 7 ballast for both fixtures??


Yes, you can use one workhorse 7 to power all four tubes.


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## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

Cool! the only problem is...I dont know if my fixture can take T8 bulbs(the fixture is the previous link). How could I find that out?


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## acbaldwin (Mar 23, 2006)

I think BlueRam said the pins should be the same size... I can't tell you for sure, but if you took a trip to home depot or lowe's or something you could compare your T12 tube to the T8 tube.


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## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

oh so thats the only thing that would make the fixture not compatible is the pins? humm....didnt know that....so for the ballast...if i were to use it on all 4 bulbs could i just mount it next to the fixtures instead of inside the fixtures(because i dont know if it will fit inside one of the fixtures)?


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## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

I know...i ask to many dang questions....but if it wasnt for you guys...I would be lost!


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## BlueRam (Sep 21, 2004)

The pin config on T12, T10, T8 NO is all "medium bipin" so the bulbs are interchangeable as posted prior. The only other styles *to speak of* are recessed (T12 HO) unipol (T12 VHO) and miniature bipin (T5).

HD sells medium bipin for ~ $1.50 a pair.

The term is "remote ballast" for mounting away from the fixture. Just make sure that the wires are long enough.



RachPreach said:


> oh so thats the only thing that would make the fixture not compatible is the pins? humm....didnt know that....so for the ballast...if i were to use it on all 4 bulbs could i just mount it next to the fixtures instead of inside the fixtures(because i dont know if it will fit inside one of the fixtures)?


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## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

So I use a workhorse 7 ballast and just mount it to the side of the fixtures instead of into the fixtures and wire all of the bulbs to one ballast....so I guess ill get the T8 bulbs and a ballast tomorrow from Home Depot and Ill be set?!


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## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

is there a difference between a fulham workhorse 7 ballast and a workhorse 7 ballast?


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## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

ok sorry im stupid...thats just the brand...void that question


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Ahh, ya ninja posted me! LOL Fulham makes the workhorse ballast so they are the same. And these ballast are very light weight and should easily fit in where your old magnetic ballast was, I think. You will be glad you are going T8. The lamps/tubes are very very economical.


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## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

I went online and printed out some directions on how to wire the workhorse 7 ballast to the bulbs. I just cant believe that i only have to get one ballast to power all 4 bulbs. I hope I am understanding right?! Here is the link where I found the directions......http://fulham.com/Find_Process.php I just chose T8 bulb then 4X32 and 120 volts and it brought it up.....


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

http://www.prolighting.com/wo7elba12loc.html On the Fulham website I think you have to go 4x30 to get the workhorse 7 wiring diagram, not 4x32. But I could be wrong. I say this because when I went 4x32 I got the workhorse 5 and maybe you have to use two of those... one per fixture. But this is just a guess.


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## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

yeah that happened to me too.....but does that mean that i cant use the workhorse 7 ballast for 4 of my 32 watts T8 bulbs??


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

No, I'm pretty sure you can. Those guys who suggested it earlier know their stuff. Worse case scenario is you might need two (Fulham workhorse 5s?) or something like that. But I think it will be slightly not to spec, but will be fine. Those Fulham ballasts are probably way over spec for safety and people overdrive and underdrive lights all the time. But I'm no expert on Ballast. Talk to Rex or Wasserpest or Blueram. They will know.


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## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

ok well im just going to get the bulbs first and see how it works. Then if I need a ballast to overdrive them, Ill get one...sound ok??


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## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

my lighting guy said he had some T8 bulbs that had a higher lumen of 3100 but the color temp was only 5000K....should i stick with the original selection from Home depot of 2800Lumens and 6500K?


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## acbaldwin (Mar 23, 2006)

Sounds good to me.
Oh, and I would stick with the 6500K.


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## BlueRam (Sep 21, 2004)

*(SOLUTION 1: ODNO compatible)*
If you are thinking of ODNO then skip the workhorse as it will not be tricked. Use the advance ballast listed on the ODNO sticky (match part numbers). The ballast will do 4X32W "normal" or 2X (2xODNO) or even 1X (4XODNO).
It is my understanding that 2X ODNO gives ~200W worth of (T8) light and is closest to your OP.

*(SOLUTION 2a: NO T8)*
The workhorse (7) will drive 220W (check your specs) of anything fluorescent. You could do T8 and T5 on the same circuit for example. My WH 8 has 6 leads of which I only use four.

*(SOLUTION 2b: NO T8/ compatible with T5)*
The more eligant solution is the T5HO at 54W each where 4X would be about the same as ~260W T12. This would require substantal modification to your fixture/reflector (which you would have done for T12HO) so it is now "least favored."

*(SOLUTION 3: NO T8 shoplight)*
It might just be easy to buy T8 shoplights as posted elsewhere and skip ballast replacement. 2X shoplight ~128W(slightly better than current), 3X shoplight ~196 which is close to requested solution.

Please comment on size of tank.



RachPreach said:


> ok well im just going to get the bulbs first and see how it works. Then if I need a ballast to overdrive them, Ill get one...sound ok??


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## spinnerbayt (Apr 2, 2005)

I have been reading through this post and can't help but wonder about the size of your tank. I know you say it is a 100g and you are using 48" shoplights with T12's but is this a 48" tank? 60" tank? 72" tank? No matter which tank it is you should have at least 18" front to back, right? If so then why not go to HD and buy 3 of their electronic shoplights that are about $8 each then pick up 3 packs of the philips T8 6500k daylight bulbs that are about $7 a pack. This would put you at 192 watts and have good front to back coverage and cost a wopping $45 bucks.


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## jgc (Jul 6, 2005)

Here are some pickings from my own personaly experiances.

When my 250 watt metal halide failed I panicked, ran to the garage (ok, took 3-4 days) and grabed my shop lights (2, 2 bulb)

Sitting side by side, the t-8 lights were noticably brighter than the t 12. I have been told that the difference between the rated current draw has more to do with the fact that the t-12 is rated with a magnetic ballist while t-8 are rated with electronic ballists. Since t-8's are supposed to be drop in replacements for t12's, I am betting that the t-8 with the correct ballist factor will actually produce the same light with 32 watts as a t-12 with 40. I suspect the reason that my t-8 was brigher was due to a higher ballist factor (extra brightness is bennefitial in shoplights, so ballist for them intentially drives them a tad harder than retrofit ballists.

Oh, so time went on and I needed more light, so I took a workhorse 5 (a 4 bulb ballist, and wired it to overdrive a pair of bulbs. OMG it was so much brighter than the normal t-8, and made the old t12 look like a pale glow by compairsion.

That all said, if you can not stop at that point, just get a ahsupply retrofit kit. The reflectors are great, it comes with workhorse ballists (I think) and the cf lights will blow away my puny odno t-8's - essentially you can get the light of 4 bulbs in the space of 2 - where as with the shoplight you will be not even getting the light of 2 due to poor reflectors.

---
please understand, I am afraid of the dark. I felt that 200 watts (roughly) from shop light was not enough light for my 58 gallon tank. FWIW I am running 250 watts at the moment and still wanting MORE.


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Folks, I think RPeach is looking for lower cost low/mid light as its without CO2. If Rachpeach puts in AHS britekits that changes the whole cost and options as she'll probably need pressurized CO2. Can someone give a simple answer. Like get 4x32 T8s and a Workhorse 7 and follow the wiring diagram and you'll have really decent low light. Or what's the best solution here. Too many options can get confusing if you haven't messed with kits or lighting much before. And acronyms really confuse those who don't know them. Just trying to help out a little.


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## BlueRam (Sep 21, 2004)

Post 48 edited to summarize proposed solutions. Ref to both stickies in "lighting" for ODNO and rel output.



Betowess said:


> Or what's the best solution here. Too many options can get confusing if you haven't messed with kits or lighting much before. And acronyms really confuse those who don't know them. Just trying to help out a little.


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## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

well i went to homedepot and bought 4 32watt T8 bulbs. I put them in my fixtures and they were soooo much brighter! I asked one of the guys about a ballast that could overdrive the bulbs and he said he has never heard of that and that it didnt sound safe...Is this whole overdriving thing safe?? some people are telling me to get the workhorse 7 ballast and some are telling me to get the Advance kind. I dont know which one to get....


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## acbaldwin (Mar 23, 2006)

People at big stores aren't usually very knowledgable... Think of it as the equivalent of asking a Petco employee for assistance with your fish. Overdriving is perfectly safe. I would go ahead and get one workhorse 7 ballast, or two workhorse 5's. Either will be fine, and both are economical. 
Of course, you could just stop now if you're happy with the t8's as they are .


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## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

what exactly will the ballast do to the T8 bulbs?


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## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

Or let me ask it this way....What will this ballast do differently, that the one i have already on my fixture cant do?


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## darkfury18 (Apr 1, 2006)

If the ballasts that you have are electronic, then they aren't very different. The Advance ballasts are electronic and will support overdriving the bulbs. I'm not sure about the WH ballasts, but i've heard they don't support overdriving, but provide enough power to drive the bulbs at their full rating. If the Advance ballasts are not overdriven, they don't provide the full current required to drive they bulbs at their rating (only 88% of the rated wattage i think).

Overdriving is safe - if you know what you're doing. Overdriving the bulbs will make the bulbs you have even brighter. If you overdrive the T8 bulbs you have at 2x, they will be 150% brighter, (3x-175% and 4x-200%) and it doesn't waste any power. The advantage of this is that you save more space for a reflector, because by cramping the bulbs together, you lose a lot of light that's not going into the tank.

If you're interested in ODNO, check out the sticked thread in this forum about ODNO lights.


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## jgc (Jul 6, 2005)

Electronic balists (not sure of magnetic ballists) have a ballast factor. Basically, based on the load from the bulb, they adjust their output to match the bulb. 

Here are my wags (wild a++ guess). The bulbs are rated at 32 watts. I am pretty sure that is using a retrofit electronic ballist, with a ballist factor to mimic the light output of a t12 with a magnetic ballists (that way a building superentendend can switch out the light and ballists, save electricity, without changing the amount of illumination in the building)

Work Horse ballists have a higher ballist factor than most. As such, they are less usefull in a retrofit install in a building, but in a new construct. Ultimately they are cheeper than the retrofits, because you can use fewer lights that draw slightly more electricity to put off the same total amount light (however the lights are slightly more effiicient at converting electricity at to light at the silghtly higher power level, so total power consumption does not really go up either). Since they do require the use of fewer bulbs (to keep light levels the same) switching them over in a retrofit of a building somewhat more difficult.

By wiring the ballists to the bulbs differently, we can confuse the ballists to thinking we are using a much larger bulb, The ballists will send significantly more electricity to the bulb, and the bulb will be significantly brighter. There is a lot of discussion on the web as to whether or not the bulbs were actually designed for this, and the relitive safty of doing it. Basically, image that the normal ballist factor is .75 (I am making up these numbers because I am too lazy to do the researcy), but workhorse ballists are set to >.90 (normal shop light ballists are probably a bit over .75 as well. If you overdrive the ballists, you might get the equivelent of a ballist factor of 1.10.

This is all simular to incandecent lights - in the store you have the energe efficent (or long life) cool white bulbs that are "75 watt", but draw 65 watts, and probably the super bright "75 watt" that probably draw a bit more than 75 watts.
---
Work Horse was one of the main ballists recomended for overdriving when I did my research. I know a WH5 will overdrive 2 t-8 bulbs without issue. I think the issue above was using 1 wh7 to run 4 bulbs. Every think I have read indicated that workhorse are the best ballists out there.

WH7 will not overdrive a t8 any better than a wh5. It will, however, run 4 t12 bulbs (wh5 can not) or 2 96watt cf bulbs). If you want, start with a wh5 for your t8's, try it 2 bulb overdriven or 4 bulb normal output - then if you prefer the overdriven, get a second wh5. The wh7 has a hight total wattage rating - but it is still a 4 bulb ballist (4 lead).
---
advanced makes several lines of ballists - "energy efficent" ones and higher output ones. I spent way to much time on there websight already this morning, but could not find acutally published balist factors on them. If you go with wh ballists look arround - I found shops in Austin varried from $25-$45 on the price of a wh5


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## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

I really appreciate all of yall's help with this. Yall have educated me so much! Thank you! I think im going to see how these lights work out and I recently found some reflectors that are like the ones on AHsupply. Im just going to try that for a while and if I need to get a different ballast then i will. Im just hoping the ballast that is in the fixtures already is powering the bulbs to their full output....what do you think?


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## jgc (Jul 6, 2005)

full output is relative. I really wish I could take pics of my 3 lights side by side - but taking pics of lights does not work that well. I was impressed with my experiment, but think I would have been best off had I started with ahsupply - and still might end up with them someday.

---
That said, my overdriven shoplight is great for woodwork in the driveway after dark - Love it as a shoplight (would have never spent $40 on a shoplight, but enjoy using it as one).

Eventually might get my vertical garden going again in the garage (the other 2 lights were purchased for it) I am sure the od shoplight will find a home in that when I do.


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Hey JGC, Post 58 was very informative, er. illuminating. Thanks!


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## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

I went on the Advance ballast website and there are different types of ballasts. Which on is right for me to get if i want to overdrive my bulbs slightly?


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