# Death of the Big Clear Kahuna



## jt20194

Steve, I am so sorry to hear about this! Anything I can do let me know. You have the right attitude though, just move on!

Jim


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## JenThePlantGeek

My heart absolutely broke when I saw this... :: hugs ::

I'm so sorry!


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## Cardinal Tetra

That sucks so much. I wish the the best of luck and hopefully everything will survive!


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## yoink

Oh no, I was hoping the title was some cruel joke. Sorry to see that.


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## dipan

That just terrible. I'm sorry that happened to you and your fish/plants.

On a positive note, I know you'll outdo it in your next revision, though!

I've read a majority of your "Big Kahuna" thread, like many other here, and learned lots. You've contributed so much. Thank you.


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## alexandre

I am speechless, I don’t know what to say, apart I am so sorry for you. But I’m sure your next tank will be even more beautiful.
Wish you all the best for setting up your next aquarium.


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## daFrimpster

Sorry for your loss!
The next Kahuna will be even better!!


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## distrbd

A100 gal.tank 6 foot long broke on me 3 years ago ,I know how much pain in the a** it is to fix it all up.but you'll get through it all.


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## <Frawg>

Hope the fish make it!

Sorry - I've enjoyed reading all about Kahuna. :icon_cry: 

Scott
Sanford, Maine


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## SuRje1976

Oh my god...Steve if there is ANYTHING I can do to help, please let me know.


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## fresh_lynny

holy crap! Steve that totally sucks!!!!!!
The fish will hopefully be fine...What can we do. I am not far from you, let us know if we can help in any way. So sorry!


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## Betowess

Whooo. Hope all survive. That is terrible news. Good luck with the new tank.


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## bharada

Steve, so sorry that you have to live through our worst hobby nightmare. I hope that fish, house, and owner make it through this alright. Best of luck!


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## Betowess

One thought Steve. While you are gone, maybe your family could transfer the plants to another garbage can with some regular water from the house - the plants will be fine - to give the Discus more room in the main temporary can.


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## brotherd

Brutal.Absolutely brutal.:eek5:


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## Jason Baliban

Sorry man

jB


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## bastalker

OMG!!!!!!!!! Steve my friend, I am so sorry to here that!!

Steve I bet if you call Al, he might have a spare tank to house the fish till you get back up an runnin. I dont have another tank just yet, or I would.

Anything I can do besides that let me know.


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## Khandurian

Wow that is a total bummer!


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## Jdinh04

Sorry about what happen Scolley, you put a lot of work into this tank and it doesn't deserve to end like this. But sometimes in life, things happens and I guess we just have to deal with it.

Hope you can get your new tank up ASAP, your tank was sweet looking.


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## D.gilly

Holy S**T wow that sucks majorly!!! i feel your pain on a lower level though my betta breeder ( 5 gal ) i siliconed together broke a leak awhile ago it sucks... good luck fixing it or doing well what ever your planing to do... may the silicone gods be with you !


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## cbennett

i was expecting to read about you deciding to put a background on your tank or maybe a top, but geeez!!!  That's heartbreaking!! :icon_cry: I'll make a sacrifice to the tank and fish goods, and try and hope the good joo-joo makes it from California.


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## kzr750r1

What a pain! Well all hope for the best Steve. Good luck on the cleanup.


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## Left C

That's really bad and what a mess to clean it up!


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## Finch_man

Sorry to heard that Steve. I would be worry about the wood floor too.


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## scolley

*Thanks!*

Hey folks! You've been too kind. Your outpouring of well wishes, advice, and compassion means a lot to me. Thank you.

I've also gotten significant help from people that have contacted me directly. You know who you are. Thank you too.

I don't have any news yet. No tank purchased. I've narrowed things down to a few options, but I'm not going to know which ones are truly available for a couple of days (waiting for distributors to open their offices and such).

So I've come to the conclusion that I've got to make this work for a while longer - whether a few days or a week. So I'm gonna go get another trash can and move some of the plants in there. They aren't getting much light now, 'cuz they're piled on top of each other. And the discus are really crowded.

So I'll have more news in a couple of days. Though if things work out like it looks like it might (fingers crossed!), I just might be able to turn this tragedy into an opportunity.

Thanks again for all your support. For everyone to be so supportive of such a cranky old fart... well I've always said - this is a really special community!


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## John P.

Oh no! Sorry to read this, Steve. I hope the house is okay, too. Are you on a slab foundation?


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## Steven_Chong

No, no, it's not the members who are abnormally kind. It's Steve who's abnormally persistant! roud:


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## fish_lover0591

wow that really sucks ! hope your house,fish and plants are fine . good luck with the new tank !


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## medicineman

Bummer!

That is even worse than having a tank made and exploded upon the first fill!

Best of luck to you. 

Perhaps you would consider adding small cross section glass bracing for much more tank strength? I would look less appealing than now, but certainly safer.


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## Momotaro

> No, no, it's not the members who are abnormally kind.


Steve is certainly persistent. However the members here on PT _*ARE*_ abnormally kind!

Mike


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## fshfanatic

wow, that sucks.. I am not the kind of guy that gets all "boo hooey" about these kind of things. But my heart broke. I have been following this tank for awhile..

Good Luck.


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## Steven_Chong

Haha, what's the most humble way to put it? I don't want to brag about being in a group of kind people. :icon_lol: 

"How about, Steve's abnormally persistant, the members are abnormally kind, but for my own part I think what kindness I extend is only the tiniest portion of what this heart-breaking tragedy deserves." like that?:icon_wink 

I've been spending too much time studying my Japanese . . .


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## scolley

Momotaro said:


> ... the members here on PT _*ARE*_ abnormally kind!


That they are Momotaro-san!

So for a little update...

Bob's advice was good. roud: And I got another really big plastic trash can and moved at least 1/2 of the plants and anubias laden driftwood to the other can. With the my Pro II's intake in one 40g can, and the outflow in the other can, and a few big Eheim flexible hoses between them (with a siphon established), I seem to have an environment that can keep the fish and plants alive for a while.

I had to run out and by a number of submersible heaters for the original trash can. I didn't want to disassemble the plumbing under the stand - and start pulling hydors. So this was a stop gap to keep the water at the proper temp.

The fish have been used to 50% water changes every 2 days, and that has been lacking. But when I returned from my 3 day business trip last night, one of the first things I did was an ammonia test. And I got a low/no ammonia reading, so I assume everything's ok with the water.

And I could not see the fish - what with all the plants crammed into the trash can. But with the plants split across two trash cans now, I can see the fish in the bottom. Apparently fine. :smile: 

I grabbed a pair of 2-bulb T12 24" lights I used to keep over my 20 out of the attic, and tossed them over the trash can before I left. So the anubias look pretty perky. Though some are exhibiting signs of a serious nutrient deficiency of some form - but I'm not going to spend too much time worrying about that now. I'm just glad they are alive. In their present condition - 3 feet deep of water - some completely shaded - some in bright light - and low/no addition of nutrients - I'm not about to start fertilizing now. I'll just let them live off the ferts in the water column, in the fish poop, and in their own nutrient stores for now.

But the fish I'm a bit worried about. I've only tossed in 2 FBW cubes. in 5 days. They have to be starving. But I'm not sure the food will get to them - they are hiding in the bottom under all the plants. And I figure it is better for them to go hungry than to have them in water with rotting uneaten food.

That's why I've got to get this fixed soon. But in a couple of day's I'll have a better idea of my tank options.

Thanks for the support!  

PS - I think I know why the Kahuna popped. And IMO it's my fault. More on that later...


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## <Frawg>

I was thinking about this also. I think you said you kept the tank only partically filled between setups?

Your silicone dried out a bit I would guess, and the the new scape (full water pressure) stressed it to the breaking point?

Scott
Sanford, Maine


scolley said:


> ... PS - I think I know why the Kahuna popped. And IMO it's my fault. More on that later...


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## Harsh

I can only offer my deepest sympathies Steve. 

Ironically i am more exited than sad, thinking about what you do next :icon_wink 

All the best roud: 

:Eagerly waiting:


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## scolley

*What killed the Kahuna?*

OK, I can't prove this. But I REALLY believe I know how this happened. And it is my own fault.

*First - Small seams with crappy silicone*
For those of you that followed my building of the tank, I had seams pop many times during the building. And the seams on what wound up as the front side of my tank kept popping, which lead me to in depth research on silicone. In that research I found no evidence of anyone building a tank this large, with small seams, with garden variety "aquarium" silicone. Big seams sure. Small seams no.

But there were some silicones that are not normally commercially available to the general public, like GE RTV108 that is many, many times stronger than the "aquarium" stuff. And that stuff is used by aquarium manufacturers, though they clearly don't like to talk about it. Once I used this on my problem front side, even with tiny little seams, it stopped popping. The good silicone works.

Where I messed up, is that once I made that discovery, I should have taken the back side off too - and resiliconed that with the RTV108. But I didn't. I left the proven leaky stuff in place on the back side because it wasn't leaking then.

Well guess which side popped? The back side. The one with the crappy silicone that I should have replaced with RTV108.


*Second - Abuse with a Kent scraper*
The night before the seam busted, I had attacked my glass with an algae scraper. I had ignored my glass for almost 6 weeks (away for almost 4) and a CO2 problem led to a nasty outbreak of GSA on my glass. Real GSA - the hard to scrape off kind. So I went at it with a Kent scraper. Aggressively.

It's all about the angle of attack IMO. On the front glass the scraping the angle was not such a problem. On an open top tank that is up against a wall the front glass is easy. You can push that scraper straight down - cleans algae great. But the back wall is harder.

Since you can't go behind the tank the scraper is hitting the back glass at an angle. Down at the bottom, the angle is less than 45 degrees - not putting too much outward pressure on the glass. But scraping up at the top is more like a 75 degree angle, actually putting more outward pressure than downward pressure.

Well, my seam ruptured on the back glass, up at the top, on the right side of the tank where most of the algae was. And that was where I spent so much time scraping algae with that bad - outward pushing - angle. And withing 24 hours it ruptured. Not a coincidence IMO.

*So what killed the Kahuna?*
Root cause was human error and laziness.

_Secondary cause appears to have been improper algae scraping_. And I should have tank more time - using a less destructive angle - while algae scraping.

And I'll wager _that was aggravated by the fact that I should have torn off that back glass and resiliconed with the good stuff - RTV108_ - once I discovered it. Instead I left it ont (little seams and all), even though that stuff had been proven to fail in my tests. I wanted to finish my tank.


Live and learn I guess. :icon_wink


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## tundragirl

Geez really sorry about your tank-It was beautiful. Best of luck rebuilding.


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## Troy McClure

Sorry to hear the news Steve. While you have my sympathy, I don't feel _too_ bad for you because I know you'll bounce back from this stronger than ever. It's the "closing a door, opening a window" thing, ya know?  My primary concern is for the wellfare of your discus. You have my complete sympathy in that regard. They were (and still are!) truly kings and I really hope they can make it through this.

Honestly, I don't think you should give up on this tank. Strip the silicone and RTV108 it up!

Best of luck!


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## blueguppygirl

My heart broke when I first started reading this. I'm sorry about your loss. On the bright side, since you're kind enough to share in the details we can all learn from this. I hope everything works out well for you. It looks like you're going to have a bit of work to do.


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## TheOtherGeoff

man steve that is so depressing. your tank was doing so well.

as far the discus, leave em be. they prolley arent as hungry as you think. when i lost power for 5 days over the summer my discus tank went to 68-70 dgrees instead of 84/86, no lights, no filters and no feeding. they were all fine. fish are unique animals in that with no light they go into an extended periodof rest to where the metabolism drops way low and the need to eat doesnt occur very often. after 5 days i had 1 fish die, and it was an old cory cat. 1 fish out of close to 70 with no light, food, heat or filters for 5 DAYS. they will make it


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## Color Me Blue

Another member popping in to say sorry.  I was so sad to read about this. I know we all here have that inner fear of this happening to us (DIY tank or manufactured). I look forward to reading about your recovery from this mishap. Best wishes sincerely to you, your fish and plants.


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## fresh_lynny

A few things I like about Steve
1. He shares in the failures, no matter what, in hopes someone will learn from it.
2. He is as persistent as it comes. He always wants to know why, and he wants to rectify it.
3. He is innovative....wow some of the mechanics of his tanks...well...they are amazing.
4. He is artistic....The content, composition, and inhabitants are second to none
5. He is analytical....by questioning everything we all learn more.
6. He is thorough....the detail and breakdown are second to none.


There are a lot more to be appreciatuve for, but those are a few....bounce back Steve, you will make lemonade!


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## Momotaro

7. He is a good guy

Hang in there man!

Mike


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## dipan

Steve, you seem to have the problem with your tank nailed down. Why not just fix the Kahuna the right way now? You already know what to do ... I know the thought has already passed your mind.


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## scolley

*Tribute to my wife "Maureen the Long Suffering"*

:redface: Your words here have been too kind. Thank you. :redface: 

Though few of you really know me well (as in the in-person variety), and I really am crusty and opinionated... as if that isn't fairly obvious. :icon_wink 

But I need to respond to the idea that I have the problem nailed down. _I think I do._
But my wonderful wife - Maureen - allowed me to build a tank on our deck.
And my wonderful wife - Maureen - saw the MANY leaks it sprung and STILL allowed me to take it into our house. Amazing.
And my wonderful wife - Maureen - has put up with the COUNTLESS hours I have spent with my arms in the tank, or with a screwdriver inside the stand... and not complained overly of the time that takes - when my job is such a time sink too. She has indulged me in my passion.
And this last week when the tank exploded water all over our hardwood floor, soaking carpets and ruining wood, my wonderful wife - Maureen - did not launch into a tirade. There was no screaming, no tears, no anger. She was the definitive good doobie. If certainly, a very upset good doobie.​

I think I can make this tank hold water. I do.

But I also think Maureen has put up with as much as any man should ever ask of their wife. It's time for me to put in a tank, whose water holding ability does not keep her awake at night.

I believe a new Kahuna can hold water. But I want a tank that my wife is comfortable will hold water too.

Long story short... I'm buying a tank. And I'm definitely remembering my good fortune to be married to Maureen in my "Thank you" prayers tonight.


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## dipan

scolley said:


> :redface: Your words here have been too kind. Thank you. :redface:
> 
> Though few of you really know me well (as in the in-person variety), and I really am crusty and opinionated... as if that isn't fairly obvious. :icon_wink
> 
> But I need to respond to the idea that I have the problem nailed down. _I think I do._
> But my wonderful wife - Maureen - allowed me to build a tank on our deck.
> And my wonderful wife - Maureen - saw the MANY leaks it sprung and STILL allowed me to take it into our house. Amazing.
> And my wonderful wife - Maureen - has put up with the COUNTLESS hours I have spent with my arms in the tank, or with a screwdriver inside the stand... and not complained overly of the time that takes - when my job is such a time sink too. She has indulged me in my passion.
> And this last week when the tank exploded water all over our hardwood floor, soaking carpets and ruining wood, my wonderful wife - Maureen - did not launch into a tirade. There was no screaming, no tears, no anger. She was the definitive good doobie. If certainly, a very upset good doobie.​
> 
> I think I can make this tank hold water. I do.
> 
> But I also think Maureen has put up with as much as any man should ever ask of their wife. It's time for me to put in a tank, whose water holding ability does not keep her awake at night.
> 
> I believe a new Kahuna can hold water. But I want a tank that my wife is comfortable will hold water too.
> 
> Long story short... I'm buying a tank. And I'm definitely remembering my good fortune to be married to Maureen in my "Thank you" prayers tonight.


New tank it should be, then, eh? When you put it like that, I guess there's only one solution. I would do the same.

Maybe the Kahuna can live on as a basement or outdoor tank? ...


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## GDominy

Man.. I feel your pain. Sorry to hear about this..

When my 135 Gallon failed on me a few years ago it dumped about 75 Gallons of water into my basement suite before I even knew it was leaking.

I think that maybe some flowers, jewelry, or SOMETHING should go along with the new tank.. heh.. you have a very understanding wife!


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## hooha

good luck scolley, I'm sure you'll bounce back.

I agree, you have a VERY understanding wife....if that happens to me, that's the end of my hobby!


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## BlueRam

Sorry to hear about the tank. 

Good luck.


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## tpl*co

OH no Steve!

I looked on the Kahuna as an inspiration! I hope everything gets cleared up quickly (definitely more quickly than my tank!). If you need any help let me know. Purhaps this is an oportunity to set up a bigger tank and use all the things you learned from Kahuna to set up your totally dream tank (when the world gives you lemons...)

Take care

Tina


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## tazcrash69

I'm really sorry to hear about the Kahuna Steve. That tank was an inspiration.


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## saltura

sorry about the loss... look at the bright side... now you can purchase an ADA tank!!!


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## cbennett

I can certainly understand wanting to keep your wife happy after everything that has happened. I wonder if you could take the very fine quality (and expensive) glass from your tank to a tank builder? The glass is okay, right? You just need the professional's expertise and tools in putting the glass together. They'll have all the jigs and clamps and silicone, etc. and that way you won't have to buy glass again and have it re-drilled. Just a thought.


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## Blacksunshine

ouch! AND hardwood floors! oh man......


You have an amazing wife. but i'm sure you already knew that.


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## turbowagon

Best of luck with the new tank... hang in there!


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## tpl*co

Blacksunshine said:


> ouch! AND hardwood floors! oh man......
> 
> 
> You have an amazing wife. but i'm sure you already knew that.


I can only imagine sopping up 65 gallons of water off the floors! . Luckily you were home to save everybody (except the Kahuna).

Tina


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## mecgeorgeneo

Aww what you wrote about your wife is sweet and awesome. Sorry to hear about the tank Steve. But good luck with the next one! Great to hear everythings alive and well!


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## VITARTE

Just stopped by to say I'm sorry about what happened to your tank.
Rafo


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## RoseHawke

Oh dear, Steve! Oh, dear, oh dear, oh dear . This is the first I've seen this, our anniversary was Saturday (19 years!) and we've been having a long, relaxing, celebratory weekend. Also I've been following another couple of hobbies more extensively the last month or so, so I haven't been on as much for that reason as well. This really, *really* stinks . But, as I've found frequently happens in my own life's little disasters, there was some good with the bad. _You were there when it popped_ which gave you a chance to at least rescue your fish and plants if not stop Niagara. Think what it might have been like if you hadn't been :eek5: ?

Maureen's a gem! I know how it goes, if Sunny has a disaster I tend to just mutter, and then fix it (and vice versa, although he tends to do less muttering.) But I've never told him flat out he couldn't do something. Well, almost never, hardly ever really. 

But, although I feel a bit guilty about anticipating it on the heels of this disaster, I can't _wait_ to see what you do next!


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## ringram

geez Scolley, so sorry to hear about this. I hope the water damage was minimal and its a good thing no one was hurt. That's something I'm always fearful of with my big tank in the living room - high traffic area. I imagine it shattering and expelling glass shards, impaling people as they walk by. I've probably seen too many bad movies though...
What's next? ADA tank?


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## sNApple

oh wow! i think this is ever fish keepers nightmare. good luck Steve


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## bastalker

scolley said:


> :redface: Your words here have been too kind. Thank you. :redface:
> 
> Though few of you really know me well (as in the in-person variety), and I really am crusty and opinionated... as if that isn't fairly obvious. :icon_wink
> 
> But I need to respond to the idea that I have the problem nailed down. _I think I do._
> But my wonderful wife - Maureen - allowed me to build a tank on our deck.
> And my wonderful wife - Maureen - saw the MANY leaks it sprung and STILL allowed me to take it into our house. Amazing.
> And my wonderful wife - Maureen - has put up with the COUNTLESS hours I have spent with my arms in the tank, or with a screwdriver inside the stand... and not complained overly of the time that takes - when my job is such a time sink too. She has indulged me in my passion.
> And this last week when the tank exploded water all over our hardwood floor, soaking carpets and ruining wood, my wonderful wife - Maureen - did not launch into a tirade. There was no screaming, no tears, no anger. She was the definitive good doobie. If certainly, a very upset good doobie.​
> 
> I think I can make this tank hold water. I do.
> 
> But I also think Maureen has put up with as much as any man should ever ask of their wife. It's time for me to put in a tank, whose water holding ability does not keep her awake at night.
> 
> I believe a new Kahuna can hold water. But I want a tank that my wife is comfortable will hold water too.
> 
> Long story short... I'm buying a tank. And I'm definitely remembering my good fortune to be married to Maureen in my "Thank you" prayers tonight.


Pretty classy post there my friend!! You have a saint of a wife just like I do. Although I think my wife puts up with more than yours does...:wink: 

Maybe yer next journal could be "Maureens revenge". :biggrin:


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## scolley

bastalker said:


> Maybe yer next journal could be "Maureens revenge". :biggrin:


:biggrin: Maureen's Revenge is on the way already I'm afraid. The tank bursting got our family room loveseat (and matching sofa) soaking wet. So my wife has extracted her pound of flesh, and cashed it in on a new high quality leather sofa and loveseat. It's being delivered tomorrow. Ouch!

Picture it... I'm standing there bare feet, towels everywhere, mops, buckets, wet furniture pulled into hallways, the deck - dripping Persian rug draped across a table. And my wife come home from work, sees the mess from outside the house and walks in the room. This is the part where I'm holding my breath...

She looks around quietly. Pauses, and says "I'm buying new furniture."

No response on my part was necessary. :icon_wink


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## Bert H

Hey Steve, I just saw this. Man, I'm sorry. I know how proud you were of that baby! 



> She looks around quietly. Pauses, and says "I'm buying new furniture."


I can just picture this in my head. Priceless!

If I can help you re-stock with any plants, just let me know. 

Looking forward to your next endeavor.


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## Jeff5614

Hypancistrus, Scolley's tank was one he constructed himself. It wasn't an AGA.


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## Hypancistrus

I was confused by this:


scolley said:


> 75 gallons of water RAPIDLY exiting my home built *all glass* tank.


All Glass is a brand of cheaply priced aquariums (which has nothing to do with AGA *or* ADA) and they are notorious for having problems with leaks. When he said "home built" I took that to mean he had an All Glass tank and the "home built" was all the stuff he added to it.

However, re-looking at the pictures, I see now what you mean. He bought the glass separately and siliconed everything together. (All Glass doesn't make trimless tanks.) I do believe that tank manufacturers do a bit more than just apply silicon to their glass panels... they probably have some proprietary (i.e., undocumented) sealants and they are probably heat cured, and/or involve other processes.

I still recommend an Oceanic tank if you want to spend less than the cost of an ADA tank. It won't be trimless but they are very good quality for the money.

I believe the ADA tanks (which I personally believe to be top notch) are not actually made by ADA, but by a German manufacturer, and I'd be willing to bet their process for making the tanks is undocumented.


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## Clone

scolley said:


> :biggrin: Picture it... I'm standing there bare feet, towels everywhere, mops, buckets, wet furniture pulled into hallways, the deck - dripping Persian rug draped across a table. And my wife come home from work, sees the mess from outside the house and walks in the room. This is the part where I'm holding my breath...
> 
> She looks around quietly. Pauses, and says "I'm buying new furniture."
> 
> No response on my part was necessary. :icon_wink


I am sure your wife would say after marrying her, say nothing was the smartest thing you have ever done:wink:


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## pineapple

Steve (and Maureen) - I was just going to use that same sort of silicone tank in my 6th floor apartment here in NYC when I read what happened ;-) Saved in time. Seriously, give me your Paypal address and I will ping you $50 as a contribution to buying a new ADA 90 tank. This cannot be a setback... A


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## BlueRam

scolley said:


> She looks around quietly. Pauses, and says "I'm buying new furniture."


And my wife thought that she was being smart allowing me to set up tanks in the "fish room" downstairs. To think she could also have new furniture too! 

So will the new tank be glass or plastic? Drilled or sumped? A very long time ago you wanted something viewable from all 4 sides?


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## Jeff5614

Hypancistrus said:


> I was confused by this:All Glass is a brand of cheaply priced aquariums (which has nothing to do with AGA *or* ADA) and they are notorious for having problems with leaks. When he said "home built" I took that to mean he had an All Glass tank and the "home built" was all the stuff he added to it.
> 
> However, re-looking at the pictures, I see now what you mean. He bought the glass separately and siliconed everything together. (All Glass doesn't make trimless tanks.) I do believe that tank manufacturers do a bit more than just apply silicon to their glass panels... they probably have some proprietary (i.e., undocumented) sealants and they are probably heat cured, and/or involve other processes.
> 
> I still recommend an Oceanic tank if you want to spend less than the cost of an ADA tank. It won't be trimless but they are very good quality for the money.
> 
> I believe the ADA tanks (which I personally believe to be top notch) are not actually made by ADA, but by a German manufacturer, and I'd be willing to bet their process for making the tanks is undocumented.


Please pardon my ignorance. From reading other posts I thought AGA was also an abbreviation for the brand All Glass Aquariums.


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## Kelley

Hi Scolley,
I have lurked my way through your thread for a couple of months now. I am so sorry about your tank! It just broke my heart to read about it. 

Good luck with your new tank! You seem like such a nice guy and I wish you all of the best.


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## tpl*co

scolley said:


> :biggrin: Maureen's Revenge is on the way already I'm afraid. The tank bursting got our family room loveseat (and matching sofa) soaking wet. So my wife has extracted her pound of flesh, and cashed it in on a new high quality leather sofa and loveseat. It's being delivered tomorrow. Ouch!
> 
> Picture it... I'm standing there bare feet, towels everywhere, mops, buckets, wet furniture pulled into hallways, the deck - dripping Persian rug draped across a table. And my wife come home from work, sees the mess from outside the house and walks in the room. This is the part where I'm holding my breath...
> 
> She looks around quietly. Pauses, and says "I'm buying new furniture."
> 
> No response on my part was necessary. :icon_wink


LOL, sounds like the time my DH took a $200 trip to England with co-workers without checking with me first. Hmmmm, he had to pay for an anniversery ring I picked out at the jewelery store .

Tina


----------



## jhoetzl

scolley said:


> Well guess which side popped? The back side.


Steve, sorry that you got kicked in the back side :icon_lol: (Or should I have gone with the misplaced "p" for an "o" and say that your tank pooped out)...eh, enough jokes.

All the best for a speedy recovery!

BTW, how is that new sofa? Never really cared too much for leather furniture, but it probably holds up better to water


----------



## bigstick120

scolley said:


> She looks around quietly. Pauses, and says "I'm buying new furniture."



HA thats classic! Cant argue with that!


----------



## wendle

Hypancistrus said:


> I do believe that tank manufacturers do a bit more than just apply silicon to their glass panels... they probably have some proprietary (i.e., undocumented) sealants and they are probably heat cured, and/or involve other processes.


I used to be a tank manufacturer :biggrin: 
Still build some from time to time.

If the glass is cleaned with an alcohol based solvent and a V2 based Silicon/RTV is used, water pressure will break the glass before the seals let go in every instance. Remember, as the glass gets thicker and stronger the seal surface also gets proportionally larger.

Sorry to hear about your tank Scolley. Cut the rest of it apart, clean it all up, and store it away for another day. I am sure you could rebuild it 100% in the future with what you have learned since.


----------



## ringram

...if his wife will let him 

As was said before - Scolley, look at this as a sign to buy a new ADA tank!


----------



## Badcopnofishtank

scolley said:


> :biggrin:
> 
> Picture it... I'm standing there bare feet, towels everywhere, mops, buckets, wet furniture pulled into hallways, the deck - dripping Persian rug draped across a table. And my wife come home from work, sees the mess from outside the house and walks in the room. This is the part where I'm holding my breath...
> 
> She looks around quietly. Pauses, and says "I'm buying new furniture."
> :icon_wink


This would have been the perfect time to don the toga and pay tribute via a sacrifice.


----------



## Rex Grigg

Hypancistrus said:


> I was confused by this:All Glass is a brand of cheaply priced aquariums (which has nothing to do with AGA *or* ADA) and they are notorious for having problems with leaks. When he said "home built" I took that to mean he had an All Glass tank and the "home built" was all the stuff he added to it.


Hmm... I think a moderator should look at that post. It's clearly opinion with out any data to back it up. Since All Glass is one of the largest manufacturers of aquariums in the US they might be a bit miffed about that post.


----------



## scolley

Wow! You guys are too much! I have absolutely HOWLED reading some of your posts! :biggrin: 

There's no way I can practically respond to everyone. But I DO want to thank you for the good advice, and the REALLY funny posts. :icon_wink

_I've got news..._
I've purchased a new tank. But I'm not saying any more. I'm keeping mum until it's all set up and looking nice. And that could take a while. But Bastalker is gonna come over and give me a hand this weekend. Good thing too. I'm going to need it.

There's gonna be some significant changes in both fish and plants. But in some ways not. Sounds cryptic? Sure it is. (Cover your ears kids... or skip this next sentence.) The suspense and anticipation is the BEST PART!

But you'll understand why some things significant are changing, and some significant things are not. You'll see it soon. But I can tell you this for sure... this ain't the same tank! It's new territory for me. It just kind of "happened". It's not what I would have planned. And I guarantee you, whatever you are thinking, it's not what you expect. So I'll be learning once again, and I LOVE trying my hand at new stuff. :bounce: 

I'm going to be retiring a lot of stuff, as a consequence of this decision. Normally I like to try giving stuff away. But I've had to drop a nickel or two, so you can expect to see me at Swap 'n Shop, trying to get back a bit. Anybody want four big panes of 1/2" Opticlear glass? I got 'em. Just needs a bit of silicone removed. :icon_wink 


Actually Wendle's post is much appreciated. It validates what I FIRMLY believe... that if I had only applied that RTV108 to the rest of the tank, everything would be fine not. That stuff is SOLID. But I've done my bit of contribution to the community knowledge in the tank building space. Someone else is going to have to carry this torch forward...

And it IS worth noting jhoetzl, that the new furniture has relatively tall legs! The wife has had it with anything that drags the floor. Several inches of water could just slosh right under this new stuff, and never wet the leather! :biggrin: 

BlueRam, you are going to have to wait dude! I'm not givin' up the surprise. But you will be surprised.

And Tina! Glad you got that ring! Just stay away from my wife. OK? She's doing fine without anyone giving her ideas. :icon_wink

Sorry I can't respond to everyone - this would be a mile long post. But I DO appreciate your support (and humor!). Thanks!


----------



## sayn3ver

this is what i was afraid of, a large amount of water on the floor and not in the tank. If i were you(and thanks fresh_newby for the sale) i'd buy an acrlyic aquarium or have one built or build one yourself. Now i'm not saying they are bullet proof, but i myself will be sleeping easier at night knowing that my hardwood floors should be safe for life with a plastic tank with plastic welded seams.

Sure they don't have the ADA name tag and yes they scratch easier than glass, but i think sometimes, if you have hardwood flooring, that an acrylic tank is just the way to go.

But, we will all be looking foward to the surprise new setup. 

From one hobbiest to another, i feel for you and am sorry such an event has unfolded upon you.


----------



## cbennett

I hate waiting...

Did the discus make it okay?


----------



## scolley

*Bad gets worse*

Well, I can't remove the suspense... but I can provide an update.

I had Bastalker all ready to come over and help me hook up the new tank tomorrow. Good thing too, as the anubias and other plants are starting to look a little poorly in the trash cans. And to keep the nitrates and ammonia down, I've had the discus cut back to 1/2 their normal rations.

And I had great help from SuRje1976 on the plumbing theory behind my new tank. And M.Lemay has been a real help on deciding practical matters. Thanks folks! I needed the help!

So...

The delivery guys arrived with my new tank and stand today. Good thing too, since I have to fly out again this coming week! They brought a nice new stand in the house. Looked great! :thumbsup: 

And then they hefted the tank in. It took a bit of help. But we got it in the stand. They were all ready to go when I said "Hey, what's that mark on the front pane of glass?"

There was a dime-sized ding, or white scuff, in the middle of the front glass. Not something on the glass - something abraded INTO the glass. :eek5: 

So with much sorrow, I had them take the whole thing - tank and stand - and put it back in the truck and drive away. I'm not paying mucho denero for something that is conspicuously flawed. Every time I look at it, I know the first thing my eye would have seen was that dime-sized chunk carved out of the front glass.

And that my friends, may be as close as I'll ever get to owning an Oceanic 180g tank. :icon_cry: I was really bummed as the truck rolled away.

So now I've scoured the Northeast region for tanks that I'd be happy with, that I can get my hands on within a week or so. And there appear to be no more. As far as I can tell, I'm really in trouble now...


----------



## jhoetzl

Steve, you aren't experimenting with that company that comes in and pours acrylic all over your house, so it becomes the aquarium, and you live in it are you? No, before you all go google that, let it be known that I am kidding, but wouldn't it be cool?


----------



## <Frawg>

Yikes! Wish I could help you out.

Can't house your Discus in extra frog tanks though!

s


scolley said:


> ... And there appear to be no more. As far as I can tell, I'm really in trouble now...


----------



## BlueRam

So a big glass tank. I guess all the "tank too small for the discus" led to the only logical conclusion. I would be more than happy to discuss sump theory if you happen to be leaning that way (as suggested by the mark on the "front" and inability to make that the "back").

As to the plants, if I recall, anubius is happy in the emersed state in a humid environment. If you could find say 2 plastic tubs with lids you could place them on the stand and burn enough bulbs (1 or 2?) to keep them going for a month or two. Lots of benefits to "low maintenance plants." I think the moss would also survive (thrive?). 

The discus in a trash bin is a little... *Amusing?* but if you have to Ehiems (the big one and the ecco?) you could split them up or even put the strongest pair in there own 'apartment' for a while. They might even breed.

Never a dull moment.



scolley said:


> I had Bastalker all ready to come over and help me hook up the new tank tomorrow. Good thing too, as the anubias and other plants are starting to look a little poorly in the trash cans. And to keep the nitrates and ammonia down, I've had the discus cut back to 1/2 their normal rations.


----------



## scolley

BlueRam said:


> So a big glass tank. I guess all the "tank too small for the discus" led to the only logical conclusion. I would be more than happy to discuss sump theory if you happen to be leaning that way (as suggested by the mark on the "front" and inability to make that the "back").
> 
> As to the plants, if I recall, anubius is happy in the emersed state in a humid environment. If you could find say 2 plastic tubs with lids you could place them on the stand and burn enough bulbs (1 or 2?) to keep them going for a month or two. Lots of benefits to "low maintenance plants." I think the moss would also survive (thrive?).


D*mn! I have ALWAYS known you were smart BlueRam. But my respect just inched up a knotch. :icon_wink 

The driftwood-planted anubias are indeed about to go into some "high humidity, emersed" containers... just as soon as I can figure out how to separate them from the hitch hiking amano shrimp. But I'll get over that hump this weekend, and the anubias will be secured for the long haul.

As to the tank, well YES INDEED, it did have a front! And I would WELCOME private discourse on sumps. Now that the cat is out of the bag - thank you.:icon_wink 

I still don't know what I will wind up with though. I have indeed scoured the local distribution channels for tanks that are available within an month or so. So the anubias will have to be "secured" for the long haul. And the discus will just have to learn to enjoy swimming in circles. :smile:


----------



## jt20194

scolley said:


> So now I've scoured the Northeast region for tanks that I'd be happy with, that I can get my hands on within a week or so. And there appear to be no more. As far as I can tell, I'm really in trouble now...


Steve,

Last week there was a sale at Super Petz in Annandale VA for a 220 with stand. I looked at it but decided it would require too much time right now. Great tank predrilled. I’ll check it out for you and see what else is available in this area if you would like. PM me if you have any specifics that you want me to look for on your behalf. I mean it when I say it would be no problem and that there are a number of LFS that have very good inventory in this area (MD, DC, NOVA). I can take my camera with me to take pictures of anything I see. 

Jim


----------



## bastalker

Steve...I dont know how you do it!! I would be chomping at the bit about right now!!:eek5: 

The LFS here has a 180G AG and stand for $999 I dont know good of a price that is though.


----------



## scolley

Thanks. But I'm not looking for anything in an AGA or a Perfecto. Just Oceanic. But that's because the Kahuna has spoiled me, and I want a avoid that black plastic strap across the top. Oceanics replace that with a slightly less noticable clear glass brace.

Thanks though. If you see a be Oceanic, please let me know.


----------



## TheOtherGeoff

man steve too bad you are all the way up in CT. i can find used oceanic tanks over 100 gallons really easily down here. i found a complete 90 yesterday ready to go with sump, plumbling, stand, top and halides for 1200. best part was only three months old and the light itself was 1200 bucks new. but i wish you the best of luck with these new ventures for big tanks.


----------



## RoseHawke

Steve, according to the Oceanic website, there are supposed to be 36 dealers of Oceanic products in Connecticut. Couldn't one of these could order you a tank and have it in within a month? Or am I missing something here?


----------



## scolley

RoseHawke said:


> Steve, according to the Oceanic website, there are supposed to be 36 dealers of Oceanic products in Connecticut. Couldn't one of these could order you a tank and have it in within a month? Or am I missing something here?


What I think is missing here Cindy is that Oceanic, having been recently purchased by AGA, is no longer making either custom tanks, nor large show tanks. If it's bigger than a 55, it's reef ready.

I was willing to compromise on the 180g and get reef ready. The extra depth allowed (24" front to back) provided enough room to hide the overflow boxes.

I've been working with one of Oceanic's premier retailers - House of Fins. They have relationships with all of the distributors that work this area. There is nothing in their current stocks that I want - a large show tank, or in a 180 I'd take a reef. I can begin to look into the many oceanic retails in the area though... to see if they might have something in stock.


----------



## Momotaro

I just can't believe it. I just can't.

I am really hoping the wholesaler was aware of this before all the effort was extended, Steve.

If I can help you out on this end, let me know. I'd be happy to do some calling. I can visit some shops Tuesday for you as well.

Mike


----------



## scolley

Thanks for the offer Momotaro-san. But the rush is over. I missed my window of opportunity. This weekend was supposed to be THE WEEKEND that a new tank got hooked up. But it was not to happen. And I'm traveling a good part of next week. And then next weekend I'm away on a short family holiday for three days. And then there is work travel (probably) after that.

No. This weekend was when it had to all come together, and it did not.

So, I've taken 1/2 of the driftwood planted anubias and moss and enclosed them in clear plastic laundry bags, getting indirect sunlight. Kind of a temporary mini-greenhouse. Low sun should keep growth low and nutrient needs to a minimum. The bags will keep them moist.

And I'm in the process of setting up a world class trash can. It's got the discus, the amanos, the oto cats, and the green neons. It's about 35g of water with a big, big anubias planted piece of driftwood. This will require that I squirt in some periodic Excel, and maybe some Flourish and a bit of K2SO4 stock. But it will provide enough structure to keep the discus from killing each other. I took the driftwood out to observe them for a few hours - and it is clear they need structure to establish their territory in those cramped quarters.

The can has 80w of T8 plant bulbs over it, with a sponge filter (mostly for airation), and an Eheim Pro II keeping the water clean and circulated.

It's a bit noisy, so I'm rigging an X-10 button the family can press it to shut the Pro II off for a couple of hours before it turns back on automatically. That way they can watch the boob tube without all the water gurgling noise.

I'm looking to hang some tubing into the can, and hook up some of the rig from my old tank, so I can semi-automate water changes. I figure if I can make regular water changes really easy - or even automatics - these fish can stay in that tank indefinitely.

And all that is good. Now I'm in no rush. I want to replace the Kahuna. But I can do it at a calm pace, planning as appropriate. I hate rushing - it often leads to half-a$$ed results.

So when I get it all set up, I'll post pics. It's gonna be one heck of a trashcan.


----------



## <Frawg>

Garbage Can tanks - a new trend!

s


----------



## A Hill

Hey Steve I can't believe I missed this thread:eek5: ! 

Thats HORRIBLE! If you need any of the smaller stuff stored in a tank for some reason my 55g is pretty roomy right now. But it seems everything is under control...

So whats the new tank going to be ADA? 

REALLY sorry to hear it went BANG... If you need anything that I can help with Let me know!

-Andrew


----------



## Hypancistrus

scolley said:


> Oceanic, having been recently purchased by AGA,


Oh God no that can't be good


----------



## TheOtherGeoff

Hypancistrus said:


> Oh God no that can't be good


this purchase of oceanic by AGA has been OLD news. i knew about that last year. HOWEVER...just because AGA owns them their quality has not gone down hill at all. i can tell you that. the fact that steve's tank had a small blip in the glass is a RARE thing. i have never heard of that before. but oceanic tanks are still the quality that they have been known for.


----------



## Rex Grigg

I thought it was really old news....like a couple of years ago at least.


----------



## medicineman

Anyway... thanks to scooley's resilience, I learn something new and very important. To get that nice thin seam and do it safey, use only high grade silicone. I've always dream of building one such tank some day, at smaller scale of course to keep on the safe side.


----------



## DiabloCanine

Missed this thread, so sorry your tank came apart. Go big acrylic, you could have one of these waiting when you get back.....DC

Tenecor Acrylic Aquariums Information Library - Rectangular 170 to 225 Gallon

Some really nice tanks here:

Tenecor Acrylic Aquariums - Factory Closeouts on Tenecor Acrylic Aquariums!


----------



## scolley

DiabloCanine said:


> Go big acrylic, you could have one of these waiting when you get back.....DC


Great suggestion! Thanks DC. I've avoided acrylic in the past (the typical reasons), but one of the largest is cost - and when you start looking at big tanks, that cost difference starts to fade away.

So I'm exploring that now. Thanks!


----------



## Khandurian

Have you tried Glasscages.com?


----------



## scolley

Khandurian said:


> Have you tried Glasscages.com?


Yes. Thanks. And also AquariumObsessed. In my original tank building thread I reference these and a number of additional glass aquarium building options. I'll not go into my reasons for not selecting these vendors, or those options here though. It's all in prior threads - in agonizing detail.

The ONLY option that I will currently consider in an all glass tank is ADA or rebuilding the Kahuna. Unless of course you know of something that has never been mentioned here - for if it is a thread discussing "all glass tanks", I've read it.

But thanks for the suggestion.


----------



## Jason Baliban

Wait for the ADA 120H to come in.....i might have just got one , and it will be so so so so worth the wait

jB


----------



## DiabloCanine

scolley said:


> Great suggestion! Thanks DC. I've avoided acrylic in the past (the typical reasons), but one of the largest is cost - and when you start looking at big tanks, that cost difference starts to fade away.
> 
> So I'm exploring that now. Thanks!


Go 180 at least. Do not know your wife but if anything like mine, I am sure you can sell a large acrylic tank.

1. Gee honey look how these seams are welded together on acrylic tanks, sure is stronger than silicone.

2. Our poor discus, having to live in that small trash can. Bet they would really perk up in a large tank.

3. I think we should focus on quality not cost like we did with the new leather furniture.

4. Sweetheart, what color/style stand/canopy do you think we should go with?

5. Do you think we should go with the traditional rectangular or maybe the flat back hex design?

etc., etc., etc.......DC


----------



## Khandurian

> 4. Sweetheart, what color/style stand/canopy do you think we should go with?


add : to match the new furniture!

I think that one will be the clincher!


----------



## A Hill

Khandurian said:


> add : to match the new furniture!
> 
> I think that one will be the clincher!


Yeah but I'm assuming it's going to be another open top tank...

-Andrew


----------



## fresh_lynny

scolley said:


> Great suggestion! Thanks DC. I've avoided acrylic in the past (the typical reasons), but one of the largest is cost - and when you start looking at big tanks, that cost difference starts to fade away.
> 
> So I'm exploring that now. Thanks!


I have a 90 gal acrylic that I will give you for a song.... when I set up my new tank. It has small shallow scratched from my plecos, but once I empty it and use the buff kit, it will be all gone....it is a great tank


----------



## scolley

fresh_newby said:


> I have a 90 gal acrylic that I will give you for a song....


Thanks Fresh! And I can sing too! I'll send you a PM...


----------



## sayn3ver

me and scolley might be tank brothers...:icon_mrgr roud:

not a bad choice.


----------



## TheOtherGeoff

dont do a glasscages tank.....save your money


----------



## bastalker

Steve!!

I can honestly say. I have scoured the entire area, and the Oceanic is one hard tank to find!!!

Tell ya what, if ya want a hand rebuildin the Kahuna. I am here for ya my friend!!


----------



## BlueRam

scolley said:


> As to the tank, well YES INDEED, it did have a front! And I would WELCOME private discourse on sumps. Now that the cat is out of the bag - thank you.:icon_wink


If you start a thread, I will be more than happy to be a frequent contributor just like the many others that that run sumps!

I have an acrylic tank. It does scratch (get rid of any magnetic glass scrapers!) but it does also polish. They are really light but require a flat surface for support (like the BK). The only problem is that the are really not suitable for open tops. If this tank was built into a wall I would say go acrylic. Otherwise I look forward to the return of the Kahuna IV (or are we up to V already?)


----------



## fresh_lynny

agree 100% blue ram..


----------



## kzr750r1

BlueRam said:


> If you start a thread, I will be more than happy to be a frequent contributor just like the many others that that run sumps!


I hope Steve goes this direction, go Steve go....Have a safe trip BTW.



BlueRam said:


> The only problem is that the are really not suitable for open tops.


Could you expand on this one a bit... Is it cause of the top bracing on most large tanks?


----------



## turbosaurus

Oh no, I just saw this thread, let me know when you're ready to plant, I'll put together a big care package.


----------



## cbennett

I also agree 100% with Ram having had both glass and acrylic tanks. Also, consider with acrylic that even if you have a center brace, the walls naturally bulge somewhat. I hear your pain on finding a suitable glass tank, I was going through the same problem about a year ago, although I wanted one about 50-60 gallons. No way did I want reef-ready, plus it had to have enough depth and the canopy fit in extra lighting for less than a bajillion dollars. PLUS it had to look snazzy since this was going in the middle of my living room. After looking at a lot of narrow reef tanks with cheap pine or particle board stands, I finally got a Jebo LifeTech (from Hong Kong I think) 60 gallon glass tank, stand and canopy for $400. Very nice sleek piece of furniture and really nice depth. This brand wouldn't be a good choice for you since they have a non-clear rim but the tank front and sides are one piece of glass (i.e. clear curves). Anyway, it might pay to check around, there might be other brands that might fit your requirements.


----------



## BlueRam

kzr750r1 said:


> Could you expand on this one a bit... Is it cause of the top bracing on most large tanks?


Plastic tanks (boxes) require six sides to keep there shape so you end up with a substantial top part with large access holes. Functional, but not "open top" pretty by any stretch...

There are a number of good sump treads lately. It would be nice to have one well documented tread with great pictures is all I was thinking...


----------



## jhoetzl

Just in case, I checked two LFS's about the oceanic's and apparently they had some mfg issues/moving and are still not up to speed - if you really want one, it isn't gonna be on the "right" coast from the sounds of it...


----------



## scolley

*So what am I waiting for...*

Thanks for the advice folks! And the kind offers!

I'm really busy with work at the moment (yeah, I know... so what else is new), so responding to everyone is a bit impractical. But I have read - and taken on board - everyone's posts. So here's where I am...

My trashcan is finally operational. I think the fish/plants will survive there for a while. The water _smells _good. That is one of our metrics that I think we under estimate generally - it is so "soft" and non-quantified. But you know what I mean. When something isn't right in your tank, you can often smell it. The trash can water smells just fine. roud: 

I'm not rushing into ANY tank. I haven't made up my mind about anything. Sumps have their drawback. As do acrylics, as do big tanks, as do locally built glass tanks, as do DIY glass tanks (don't I know it!), as do imported glass tanks. 

There's a lot to consider. And with the trash can smelling so sweet, I'm not in a rush to make up my mind. But I appreciate the advice! Really.

As soon as I get closer to anything resembling a decision, I will certainly let you know. But I can tell you where I am...

I started this hobby almost exactly 3 years ago. I've tried a lot of cool stuff, and I am painfully aware of how much I still have to learn (which of course, is its own form of learning). And now I'm ready for a real tank. And I can count my lucky stars that (within reason) my lovely wife will support my decision.

I know I want something at least tall enough to accommodate discus. To me that means 24 inches.

I want something that will be big enough to allow what architects and artists often call "open space". In a planted tank's case - that means uncluttered water around focal points. And that implies a big tank.

I want an "open tank", or no canopy, not obscuring visual elements that obstruct the view from the top of the tank.

I want a tank that is "maintainable". That's why I've turned down offers on 29" high tanks. They just seem too deep to maintain easily.

I want a tank that I can ultimately make into a "low maintenance" tank. That implies holes drilled in the bottom - but does not require it.

I want a tank that is lovely to behold, a joy to own, and makes people go "Wow!" when they enter the room.​
So there you have it. These are not all obtainable goals. Compromises will have to be made. But I'm trying REAL HARD to not make too many. Which of course, is why my trash can is set up to last for months... and why I'm still looking.

Thanks for the help! :icon_wink

PS - I completely tore down my original 20g, my grow-out tank. It's gone. Fish, plants, everything. Nada. It was done to make room, both physically, and in terms of maintenance time, for whatever this new tank will be. So other than a trash can, I may be the only active "planted tank guru" with no tank at all. :icon_neut


----------



## guaiac_boy

Steve,

Sorry 'bout the tank. I recently went through the "search" for an Oceanic 180g tank too. I called distributors across the US and spent time on the phone with people at Oceanic's factory and at their distribution centers across the western half of the US. It seems that part of the "merger" with All-Glass was that the dropped their line of larger tanks. They were willing to make a custom tank for around $5,000, but that's just ridiculous.

I reluctantly and sadly settled for a 180g All-Glass tank and hid the ugly black rims with a custom stand and canopy - not exactly what you're after, I feel your pain. The plastic cross-braces sort of suck too. Those big Oceanic tanks were nice!

After setting up a 180, I have a few thoughts. I'm very happy that I went glass and not acrylic. It's hard enough to reach the bottom of a 24" tall tank. Working through the typical window openings in the top of an acrylic tank just makes it harder. I've also never seen an acrylic tank over a year or two old that didn't have some major flaws somewhere. It's even more distracting than the slight green hue that 1/2" thick glass produces.

You'll absolutely love the 24" front-back dimension of a 180. It really opens up tons of 'scaping possibilities. I'd avoid a 29" tank for the reasons you cited above. It's just too hard for a tank that requires any upkeep at all.

Seriously though, why not set up a used 90g for a while just to house everything? You could do it "on the cheap" and it would allow you to be completely relaxed about setting up the Bigger Kahuna. I've not regretted a single second that wend into the planning of my setup.

Best wishes.


----------



## A Hill

Steve I know you don't want a DEEP tank... But wouldn't something like this be a good compromise? I hear it's REALLY low maitanance since it's all moss and java ferns and stuff! And it has a team of dwarf divers at your service..










:icon_lol: 

-Andrew


----------



## RoseHawke

Okay, I don't know where this lies in the scheme of things, and may not be relevant since you are waaaaaaay up there in Connecticut, but I recently found a 100 gallon tank at a LFS (Aquarium Imports, mostly SW) that I _almost_ came home with. This tank did have a center brace and the typical plastic trim, but I noticed that it seemed very well made and out of thicker glass than I would have thought the norm for a tank that size (18x60x20 - long, but not that tall.) Now, this next is pure speculation. We were in Chattanooga for Christmas at my sister's house and she has a 75 currently torn down. Actually at the time she was using it for a Christmas creche scene . That tank also seemed to be very well made and with thicker glass. It only struck me later that it did NOT have a center brace. I asked her who the manufacturer was but she didn't know. I'd be willing to bet it's the same company. Must be a smaller company, apparently no web page but the few mentions I've been able to find of the tanks are all good.

Ocean View Products, Pascagoula, MS. 

Just thought I'd throw this out there to muddy the waters a bit ,


----------



## Betowess

I think it might be time to try to find a commercial custom builder in New England. I bet there is somebody who is reasonable?? Just picked up on this thread after being out of town for a week. Sorry to hear about the dime sized fault on the new 180. I was really excited by that option...

Not sure why folks are saying open top acrylic are bad. Do they mean without a clear brace? Look at Barada's killer 120 gallon four footer - its "euro braced" I believe? A very sweet tank and very open. I am scared of acrylic's myself, but I'm becoming more accepting of them. Its just I'm so talented at growing algae, acylic tanks give me pause. Good luck with the hunt Steve!


----------



## Rex Grigg

Most acrylic tanks don't have totally open tops. At worst they have small holes which you have to work though. Most of them have slots that make it almost impossible to actually work in the tank and keep the skin on your arms.


----------



## scolley

Thanks folks. Am gonna be brief...

Understood about the acrylic. Thanks - am involved in discussions to see if some of those acrylic short comings (except scratching) can be minimized.

I'll look those people up. Thanks Cindy!

And I have had some wonderful opportunities to replace the Kahuna with similar sized tanks. And I may do that - permanently. But I've got the 20g cleared out. The fish and plants are stable. So I'm not farting around now. No panic moves. Whatever I move to is my endpoint. Strike while the iron is hot, and all that...

No, I'm deciding what I want/can afford/can maintain, and going for it now.

And Bob, I have located a commercial builder in New England (even reasonably priced!) But I've wary of custom tanks coming out of anything less than a large tank building shop. I KNOW many wonderful, dependable tanks come out of small, independent manufacturing shops. But sometimes crap comes out of those too. And I don't know now to tell the difference - as far a long term dependability goes.


----------



## Betowess

Here is a link to Bill Harada's 120 gallon. (acrylic). 
Aqauria Photos: 120 Gallon Tank


----------



## Dentate

*Sorry, yet thanks*

Hi Steve,

I'm really sorry to hear about the loss... I can only imagine how that would feel. I broke a 10 gallon while doing martial arts in my sleep as a child, but that's not quite the same thing. :icon_eek: 

I just wanted to say that reading the entire Kahuna planted discus aquarium odyssey, Kahuna's Revenge, was an enlightening (and time consuming) learning experience; I am grateful to everyone that contributed information to that particular thread. It made me feel a sense of connection with your aquarium, adding to the dismay upon reading this sad turn of events.

I’m looking into setting up my 125 gallon with plants and discus, so I gleaned a tremendous number of valuable tidbits from your trials, tribulations, and successes. Thanks to you and all those that contributed. It is quite clear that this endeavor may be well over my head (somewhere between 100 and 1000 meters), but I will be trying nonetheless. Thanks again for all the education provided and I hope your fish and plants pull through.

Robin


----------



## Dood Lee

Scolley, some aquarium manufacturers that build acrylic tanks have what they call "euro bracing," where the tanks are built so that they have the widest possible openings at the top. Most of them do this by using a thicker acrylic sheets. Something to look into since most commercially built acrylic tanks have small opening at the tops.


----------



## jasonh

Scolley,

I've been away for a few months, and was trying to get caught up on your Kahuna's Revenge thread...I can't believe what happened. I hope your fish and plants make it through the trash can phase. It's kind of disappointing to hear that Oceanic is having issues with their larger tanks. Hopefully that all gets resolved soon and you can be up and running soon.

Isn't it great to have such an understanding wife? I told my wife your story and she said she'd have said the exact same thing as your wife. Actually I think she may have put it more like "_You're_ buying _me_ new furniture." 

Hope all works out for you and your fish.


----------



## BlueRam

scolley said:


> No, I'm deciding what I want/can afford/can maintain, and going for it now.


Tough choice. An open top is simply not one of the strengths of and acrylic tank. I do really like my canopy though. The measurements of glass vs acrylic are just far enough off to cause problems with furniture.

So the Kahuna was a 4' tank with a 4' (ultra cool) lighting fixture. So a 6' tank would require a 6' fixture (or suspended MH). It would appear from this simple maths that an 8' tank with 2X 4' (ultra cool) lighting fixtures is the only *reasonable* solution.

If you do go acrylic with a canopy, I would recommend AHSuppy.com stuff. For example 4X 96W (2 banks) would be about right for a 180. 

A few pages back you threatened to put the SMS122 and other bits into the SnS. Still available?


----------



## Evergreen

*sad sack*

Man! you are one sad sack!


----------



## aman74

Just wanted to say I'm sorry to see this happen.

And to thank you for all the info you have contributed. Sad to see such an accident and hoping that all the info you obtained and shared with others in the process of building the Kahuna will somewhat soften the blow of the tank failure.

Peace,

Anthony


----------



## scolley

*aman74 *- Thanks for the kind words Anthony. I've got noone but myself to blame I'm afraid. When I figured out the weakness for the over-the-counter silicones - vs. the strenght of the RTV type - I should have resiliconed the entire tank. But hey, live and learn.

Thanks for the kind words though. But remember... all's well that ends well. And in my case the fat lady has not even BEGUN to sing!


*Evergreen *- "Sad Sack"? Are you kidding? Is that a bad joke?

I'm having a GREAT time! Now that the fish are OK, this is my chance to fix things up the way I REALLY want. :icon_wink 


*BlueRam *- Yes indeedee... I'm planning on needing to get a buck or two back if possible - to offset the impending costs. So yes! I will be selling the SMS 122, and MUCH MUCH more. Some things I've not even mentioned yet. But I don't want to get your hopes up - this is not going to be a massive sale. I DO feel very strongly about not asking too much for used equiptment - bad taste IMO. But at the same time, I'll be looking at anything I would sell and consider selling it at a deep discount against the possibility of my ever wanting it again. Or, in the case of an SMS 122... I would NEVER think of asking more than $50 for it. But at the same time, if all I could get was $25, I'd just keep it. I hope you understand.


*jasonh *- Thanks pal. Your better half sounds like no dummy either. :hihi: But to be fair to my wife, it's not like I bring every nickel into the house. She brings in a quarter or two herself. So it's even more too her credit that she indulges me in this hobby. Sure - some other men have worse vices. But at the same time - some men have wives that tolerate no vice at all. :icon_wink 


*Dood Lee* - Thanks Dood. That's EXACTLY one of the options I'm exploring now. Thanks for the heads-up!


*Dentate *- Welcome to PT Robin! And best of luck with your 125! But please do accept my gratitude for your kind words. Over time it gets to be a real PITA to document stuff as I have. But make no mistake about it - posts like yours make it all worthwhile! Thank you.


*Betowess *- Your information, or observations, are right on target as always Bob! Thanks buddy. I've already spent many hours chasing down the lead you provided in that post! Thanks. :icon_wink


----------



## leoslizards

Ouch! Sorry man, I feel your pain. I wouldn't call it the end of your tank yet. You can still rebuild it. Consider re-siliconing it and adding a steel frame and brace to the top of it. It wouldn't look as nice but you'll be more at peace knowing this won't happen again.


----------



## scolley

leoslizards said:


> I wouldn't call it the end of your tank yet. You can still rebuild it. Consider re-siliconing it and adding a steel frame and brace to the top of it.


As a matter of fact, I am personally certain that a frame and/or a brace is completely unnecessary. But the tradegy is that I will never be able to prove that. Which is unfortunate for the community. Sorry.

I took my shot. Some of you should have learned. Now it is your turn to do as we all do, stand on the shoulders of the people that come before us. So by all means, go out and build an all glass tank! Just document it please. And please use the proper silicone for every joint! Learn from my mistake, and teach us all from you experience.

As for myself... I want a bigger tank. If I could just snap my fingers and have the Kahuna back, all re-siliconed back with the correct silicone... I'd be dissapointed.

Nope. This is my excuse for a bigger tank. And I'm taking it if possible.


----------



## Hop

Scolley, I am so sorry to hear this! I only check the boards here every so often, so I guess I'm late in offering any assistance. Check you PM box...


----------



## dogg76

Why won't this thread die already? So the guys tank broke because he screwed up.....It's time to move on people.....I'm sorry about your tank Scolley, but a 10 page thread? Come on....


----------



## hoffboy

*Irony*

The irony of posting your wish to see a thread die within the thread in question is not lost on me. If the size is really bothering you that much, you could always stop looking. I'm just sayin'.



dogg76 said:


> Why won't this thread die already? So the guys tank broke because he screwed up.....It's time to move on people.....I'm sorry about your tank Scolley, but a 10 page thread? Come on....


----------



## JenThePlantGeek

I just had a thought Scolley - aren't you glad you took the time to capture pictures of the Kahuna for the AGA contest instead of waiting until next year for it to grow in and mature?? 

And yes, beloved contributors like Scolley absolutely deserve 10 page threads mourning their loss and planning their next victory! I'll be very surprised if it stops at 10...


----------



## Hop

dogg76 said:


> Why won't this thread die already? So the guys tank broke because he screwed up.....It's time to move on people.....I'm sorry about your tank Scolley, but a 10 page thread? Come on....


Gee dog. Since I only stop by a couple times a month I'm sorry to have inconvenienced you by saying I was sorry to someone I happened to have been communicating to over the past three years! I'll try to never do it again!

This place is going down hill fast! It used to be a community of people who had a common interest and were bonded by advancing the hobby. I'm not sure what it is now, but it's certainly not much fun to stop by any more!


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Hop said:


> This place is going down hill fast! It used to be a community of people who had a common interest and were bonded by advancing the hobby. I'm not sure what it is now, but it's certainly not much fun to stop by any more!


Don't worry about it, Hop. I think there are 2 types of people who join online forums. The first type is the type that you describe above. The second is the group who "use" the forum. They get their info for their needs, and everything else is a waste of time.

I really don't understand why the second type would even participate in these threads which are for the first type. It's like buying tickets to a hockey game and then saying hockey is for lunk headed morons. Why would you go to the game in the first place?


----------



## tazcrash69

2wheelsx2 said:


> I really don't understand why the second type would even participate in these threads which are for the first type. It's like buying tickets to a hockey game and then saying hockey is for lunk headed morons. Why would you go to the game in the first place?


Or the "I hate this show, I want them taken off the air!"

Change the channel, or in this case, don't read it. 

Scolley has been a stand up guy, and the BCK has been an inspiration for a few of us.


----------



## lumpyfunk

OK people, not to defend Dogg76, but it is possible that they did not understand the connection that many people feel to the BCK. I for one feel a kinship with Scolly because of what he has given to the community and the hobby by sharing his experiences through many great threads. . .Thanks Steve!

While it seems unlikely, there could be some misinterpration of what they wrote due to the media it is in and its limitations.

However getting back on track, this thread is not just about the demise of imho the greatest DIY undertaking documented on this forum, it s about what comes next. I am looking forward to seeing what comes next!


----------



## RoseHawke

*EVERY*body loves a soap opera. Even weird ones about a fish tank :hihi: .

It's funny how we all seem to get that itch for "bigger." If my floor could support it without retro-work, I'd already have "bigger." Steve, you're lucky in that respect.


----------



## Betowess

2wheelsx2, well said. Of course, only a Canadian would use the hockey metaphor. LOL


----------



## 2wheelsx2

Betowess said:


> 2wheelsx2, well said. Of course, only a Canadian would use the hockey metaphor. LOL


That's why I chose it. If I had used football, everyone would have said, what, the CFL isn't football. 

Anyway, back to the main thread. Can't wait to see Steve's new Kahuna's Ultimate Revenge! I am such a DIY putz that I love looking at DIY threads that people put up.


----------



## rey

So where do you get the good silicone (GE RTV108)?


----------



## bharada

rey said:


> So where do you get the good silicone (GE RTV108)?


Amazon.com sells it.


----------



## Evergreen

Evergreen - "Sad Sack"? Are you kidding? Is that a bad joke?

I'm having a GREAT time! Now that the fish are OK, this is my chance to fix things up the way I REALLY want.

No, but its the truth. Its one sad story after another. But, if you are having a great time after all this, then what do I know.

Do you ever feel your threads are narcissistic?


----------



## scolley

*Good bye for now.*



Evergreen said:


> Do you ever feel your threads are narcissistic?


Maybe. What an appropriate personal dig! (Och! You got me!) But who's to say? Maybe they are. I'd like to think not. But we certainly are not good judges of ourselves.

But I do know this. ...

The more attention any of my threads get, the more it seems to attract a set of people that are petty enough to come and rain on a parade - rather than taking the mature action of just moving on to other threads. This is a repeated theme - has happened many times.

And that's too bad. Because I have REALLY enjoyed sharing my success and tribulations with my friends on-line. And the generally warm support I've enjoyed here has definitely INCREASED my general faith in the goodness and kindness of people in general. It's too bad the exceptions muddy the water.

And with GREAT THANKS and WARMEST WISHES to so many of you that have been soooo helpful and supportive, I'm going to say "Good bye" for a while and take a break from Planted Tank. Not forever certainly. But until I'm no longer sick of the personal attacks.

For the vast majority of you though... THANKS! I'll miss you! It's been great. :icon_wink 

Warm Regards - Steve

PS - You are certainly invited to PM me! I'll be PM'ing to be sure. But I'm tired of public posting.


----------



## bharada

Well, Steve, I can certainly understand your frustration with the chronic detractors. But then again, that what the Ignore List is for. :hihi: 

In any event, here's wishing that your new aquarium adventure becomes a long lasting success. :icon_smil


----------



## SuRje1976

Even if your absence is just temporary, it is a terrible loss to the community Steve. I wish you well and look forward to your return!


----------



## Betowess

If one doesn't have something constructive to say, well, you guys can probably figure out what some of us are thinking - about your negative posts...:iamwithst 

Steve, I for one am looking forward to seeing/hearing what's coming down the road! I'm sure you know these threads have always been a pleasure for the real PT community.roud:


----------



## 2wheelsx2

For anyone who thinks this is an excessive thread, you should see the 119 page thread TheFishGuy posted on his DIY plywood, on cichlid-forum.com:

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/...&start=0&sid=6eb19d608bbd8f9d8bceb5f3f436778a

It's an epic. And not one single detractor. The reason? People who don't want to know about it don't subscribe.

Go, Steve, Go!


----------



## tazcrash69

Steve, I look forward to your return,


----------



## Troy McClure

I used to follow that cichlid-forum thread. Longest thread I've ever seen in any forum. It's threads like these that we all learn from. Steve, if you quit posting now, pathetic slobs of the great unwashed (like dogg) win. Ignore them and take the higher ground. Keep on keepin' on, and all that. Really, isn't that what this thread is about? Perseverance? You had a problem, you're overcoming it. You have a problem with a few dip$hit kids, ignore them and carry on. Maybe (and that's a BIG maybe) everybody should put these twits on their ignore list, sort of like a democratic banning. Eventually they'd go away, hm? Maybe eventually they'd get out of the hobby completely because that's certainly not the type of person I'd want someone to come in contact with when being exposed to planted aquaria for the first time. Steve, myself, the SWOAPE crew, and the -hundreds and hundreds- of other TPT and APC folks are model spokespeople for this hobby. I'm exceedingly proud to be a part of it.

I for one am following this thread to see how Steve comes out (and he will come out on top) and what he ends up creating. I loved the direction he was taking the BCK and even saved a couple of his pictures in my "future aquascapes" folder as ***inspirations*** for my tanks. That's what it's all about!

Go, Steve, Go!


----------



## Jason Baliban

Evergreen and Dogg......you are both an @$$H0|3!!!

Dont listen to these idiot kids steve. If they arent kids, then they never learned manners. If you need a break bro, take it, but dont take it because of some idiots comments. Every place needs a kind heart like yours. 

I will be sure to catch you when you share your next triumph or failure.

Best of luck to you bro!!

jB


----------



## 247Plants

Evergreen and Dogg...just added to the ignore list.

Steve I wish you the best in your decisions. Dont let a couple pukes get ya down...


----------



## bastalker

Evergreen said:


> Do you ever feel your threads are narcissistic?


Wondering what point you are trying to make, if any at all. 

Alot of people that post in this thread know Steve personally including myself. 

He is one of the few on this forum that doesent white wash anything. He will tell ya exactly whats goin on in his tank at any givin moment, not just the good ones.

Ya might want to find other threads you can be more constructive with, cause your respect scale looks to be tipping in the other direction.


----------



## A Hill

Jason Baliban said:


> Evergreen and Dogg......you are both an @$$H0|3!!!
> 
> Dont listen to these idiot kids steve. If they arent kids, then they never learned manners. If you need a break bro, take it, but dont take it because of some idiots comments. Every place needs a kind heart like yours.
> 
> I will be sure to catch you when you share your next triumph or failure.
> 
> Best of luck to you bro!!
> 
> jB


I agree! And I sure hope they're kids... because if they're not:help: . But heck, Saying someones a kid doesn't mean too much around here does it?:hihi: 



bastalker said:


> He is one of the few on this forum that doesent white wash anything. He will tell ya exactly whats goin on in his tank at any givin moment, not just the good ones.
> 
> Ya might want to find other threads you can be more constructive with, cause your respect scale looks to be tipping in the other direction.


I agree. And Its good to see threads that give all the real details. I personally Can't imagine keeping those threads up to date! It must of taken hours and hours and hours... And if you added all the time up I bet it took Steve Days. Maybe WEEKS to write all those things down.

And plus Steve, Its just two Idiots out of all the rest of the forum. Ignore Lists are there for a reason:hihi: . Even if I feel the same way about it as you do.

So I'll be waiting for your next tank's pictures. And If I can give you a hand Let me know:hihi: 

-Andrew


----------



## m.lemay

I've gotten to know Steve personally over the past couple of years. The death of the Kahuna is a setback to say the least, but knowing steve, I know the next one's gonna be bigger and better.

Hey Steve:

Let the kids have thier fun. Just because they can't get as many people to post on thier threads is no reason to walk away.

I will be very dissppointed if we won't see updates of your latest and greatest creation.


Marcel


----------



## IUnknown

Steve,
Some people are just going to get jealous of the amount of people that you have personally helped in some way. I was touched by some of the kind words you have related to me in the past, and when I saw this thread the first time, my heart sank. Cause we've all been here before. These guys don't realize that if you had not put the effort into downloading your thoughts, we wouldn't have things like inline pH probes, etc. You should see some of the abuse Tom Barr has had to take. He has one thick shell man, he's been helping people for ten years. It's the guys that get popular that get attacked. 

Your dream tank is similar to mine, so I am always happy to see how it has progressed. Even if it has hit a major hurdle, its the things that are hard to work for that men truly admire.
Greg


----------



## scolley

*Ok Ok Ok*

MANY of you have posted nice comments, many have sent encouraging PMs, and some of you have even called. Thank you.

I really was, and am, ready to take a break. I don't want to have to defend myself here. And you should not have to defend me. That's stupid. I think we are really here just to enjoy sharing with each other about our planted tanks... learning, moaning, boasting, experimenting and joking. And it distresses me when it gets away from that.

I'll keep posting. I'm sorry I put you through the trouble of asking me not to. But this DOES really get under my skin. And I'll have a full rant tomorrow. Those of you not interested in such, I'll ask that you just skip this thread for a day or two please.

More tomorrow. But for the moment, Evergreen you just graduated to a very small and exclusive group. My ignore list. Good bye. :icon_wink 

I'll write up why I find this so upsetting tomorrow. Tonight I'm gonna chill.

Thanks for the nice posts - PMs - phone calls!


----------



## fresh_lynny

Personally, I think the differences between narcissism and breaking new ground are evident in Steve's threads. He is not posting pics and sitting back waiting for accolades, as that would be narcissistic. He is trying new ideas, documenting how he came to those conclusions, and having the BALLS to show the failures and how he thinks it became one. This is constructive and how something advances. We could sit there and read the same answers to the same questions over and over, but then I wouldn't bother coming here. Steve is detailed in his successes AND failures as well as innovative ideas, and for this, I am greatful, as I learn new possibilities, and things NOT to do.
Don't go changin' to try and please me, I'll tumble for ya, Steve~! lol


----------



## triple red

Steve...you shouldnt let a "few bad apples" get to ya
life is way to short to get bent over a couple of dumb comments...
even though im one to talk (im fairly "thin skinned" ):icon_smil 

its one thing for someone to offer "constructive criticism"
its something totally different when someones just being a jerk.....

just sit back and smile and press "ignore" and all the trolls just go away :hihi:


dude..if ya need a hand takin your "next" big tank off the truck , pm me and ill be there :bounce:


----------



## dogg76

Jason Baliban said:


> Evergreen and Dogg......you are both an @$$H0LES
> 
> jB


Ahh name calling. very mature...I don't think my post was that offensive...But, This thread contains no useful info...Except for what type of silicone you should use. I never personally attacked any1, So I don't know why we had to resort to namecalling, I personally could care less, I was just voicing my opinion. So if you want me on your ignore list, go ahead, I don't care...


----------



## 2wheelsx2

dogg76 said:


> But, This thread contains no useful info...Except for what type of silicone you should use.


 It's posts like these that clutter up this thread that makes it useless. We're here to read about Steve's tank, not your opinion of his thread.

To demonstrate you're the better man, please stop posting to a thread you say is useless. If you keep posting, the thread will continue to perpetuate with useless bickering. If you want to post a thread on how useless Scolley's thread is, please start one, and we'll all not read it. Thanks.


----------



## JenThePlantGeek

Hopefully this namecalling can end here. It isn't worth it guys - arguing over the internet won't get you anywhere. 

I'm not cleaning up because I was asked not to, and that'll be fine as long as we can keep things friendly.


----------



## Jason Baliban

dogg76 said:


> Ahh name calling. very mature


You are right...pretty childish. Forums are a funny thing. Either way, for you to judge somebody else for the information that you think is worthless or not does not at all help the outcome of any thread. 

This on top of you attacking a valued member of the board led me to lose my head for a few moments. Perhaps I was having a bad day or you are. I appoligize for my words. I suggest you do as well. You have a million reasons for your approach.....as do i. However, non of them help this thread and you and I are simply moving the topic to childish tones.

If you dont find it interesting, dont read it. If you have a personal prob....use PM.

jB


----------



## dogg76

Jason Baliban said:


> you and I are simply moving the topic to childish tones.
> 
> jB


Your right, and I apologize.....But I never personally attacked any1.....anyways, I won't post on this thread again....


----------



## Betowess

dogg76 said:


> Your right, and I apologize.....But I never personally attacked any1.....anyways, I won't post on this thread again....


Sort of back on topic here. dogg, in your post you were saying it was time to move on.

I think that was what this thread was about. Exploring new options, since Oceanic isn't making any 180 gallon tanks with a glass mid brace, at the present. 

I believe, but don't know, that Steve is probably exploring all options - be it custom glass or acrylic etc. That is of interest to many of us. And a lot of useful information has been passed on by Steve to this community. I for one am grateful, as I used and copied info from him and Sergio to develop my water change set up. I wouldn't have done it without the original Kuhuna thread and Sergios.


----------



## 247Plants

SOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooo

Back on track here.....

How are things going plant,fish,water,light and everything elsewise? 

Anything new? Any new ideas?


----------



## scolley

*THANKS JEN*

I asked Jen to not clean things up. Thank you Jen. Since this thread is getting so much attention, I thought it was a good opportunity to let the community see - long term - the effects of negative posting, and the trouble it causes. Something we can all learn from hopefully.

*
WHY I INTENDED TO STOP POSTING*

The only way I can explain why this sets me off, is to tell you a little about myself. Sorry. You might want to skip this post...

[RANT]
I don't really like the spotlight. And my threads put me squarely in it. My participation here is not narcissism - I'm certain of that - it is the joy I take in this community and the hobby. And I can prove I don't seek the spotlight... In high school I won top national honors in multiple categories of debate, and won the then premier national acting competition. Naturally I went to college on a large acting scholarship. And have I pursued acting since then, either professionally or as a hobby? Nope. Not one play in almost 25 years. Why? Because being good in the spotlight is not the same thing as enjoying it. If I needed adulation I'd go get applause on stage. That's easy for me. But it is not something I crave.

And why is it that I'm so comfortable with posting my aquarium failings on-line? Because I'm comfortable with who I am and my accomplishments in other areas. My professional accomplishments are significant. Most of you would probably be shocked if I elaborated. This hobby stuff is just that - a hobby - when I have the time - something done for fun. And when it stops being fun, I'm moving on. I get enough aggravation from my professional life thank you.

And why is it that I fail so much in this hobby? Most of you know the answer to that. Because I'm trying hard things. I have no interest in easy stuff. I need something I can sink my teeth into, and risk failing. For me that's fun.

And finally, why do the negative posts bother me so much? Because I am passionate about this stuff. I love it. And I love this community. And my contributions here are very, _very _personal. I'm giving of my time, my energy, and my passion for the hobby and the community. So when someone says something nasty, it hurts. So sue me - I'm human.

So if you can, please accept my apologies for being so thin skinned. But it really does sting. And I _really did_ intend to stop posting. But your many posts, PM's and phone calls have convinced me to put up with the occasional nastiness that you find here.

I've taken the only action I can to reduce my own exposure to that nastiness - the "ignore list". And in the future, I will try to not give mean spirited posts a 2nd thought, but will use that list immediately - and let everyone know who I just ignored – because _I would encourage you_ to do the same. It's the only way I know that we can teach people the boundaries of acceptable on-line behavior.

And BTW - dogg76 is on that list now too. I'm not going to be justifying why I ignore someone - I'm comfortable with my reasons. I'm just gonna do it. And let you know.​[/RANT]


Back to the topic of this thread...


*THE BIG CLEAR KAHUNA*

The Kahuna sits outside on my deck, waiting to be fixed. I do love that aquarium, and will fix it. But I'm getting a new, bigger, safer tank now, so I doubt I'll ever use it. I do not have the room. Or time. But I definitely don’t have the heart to throw it away. So if anyone wants it, and the stand, and is willing to pick it up, use it, and post here so we can all see it – please PM me. I’m willing to give it away to the right person. And I’ll fix it first too!


*TRASH CAN TANK*

The fish seem fine. The plants seem fine. I’m squirting in a bit of Excel, K2SO4 stock solution, ADA Green Brighty Step 1 and ECA. The plants look happy.


*THE NEW TANK*
I’m still agonizing over the new tank. But I’ve ordered the stand. And I’ve ordered lights. I just haven’t ordered the tank yet. I have found that no matter what I do, I’m going to have to make a compromise. Even if I decided that cost is absolutely not an issue (which I have not BTW) the best I could do would be having a massive low iron tank custom made. But that would be a compromise because I would be making my wife nervous about another custom made all glass tank in the house. Everything is a compromise it seems.

Thanks to everyone for your input in this process. It has been quite valuable. And with the help of that you have provided, I'll be able to make a decision and place an order within days. Thanks. :icon_wink


----------



## bastalker

Glad ya made it back my friend!! roud: 

We oughta just all go out an have a beer!!! :biggrin:


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## fresh_lynny

I like that Idea bastalker....I am not that far away....someone making sense


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## IUnknown

Why not get an ADA 120 "clear" tank ($1000 ish)? It's low iron, and they are warrantied so you can put the liability of the tank breaking onto someone else. I wonder, if ADA tanks ever get popular if the first lawsuite is going to ruin it for everyone else.


----------



## scolley

Hey! I'm always up for a beer! Shucks, I just bought 6 "growlers" of fresh brew up in New Hampshire last weekend... Maybe I'll tap one now!

But first...

I've looked at the AGA 120s, both the 120-P (120L x 45W x45H), and the 120-H (120L x 45W x 60H). Beautiful tanks. And have talked to Jeff Senske about ordering one. First, after the Kahuna, I could only get the 120-P. The 120-P is a magnificent tank, but I prefer AT LEAST the depth of the 120-H for discus.

But ultimately I've conclude that they are too small for discus. That 120-P is definately. And teh 120-H is pushing it. And I would like more open space in my aquascape. And that takes a much bigger tank.

But if I chicken out on a bigger tank, I DEFINITELY seeing about a 120-H.


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## bharada

Steve, it sounds like you're in dire need of an ADA 180 (180x60x60). 

AquaForest Aquarium in San Francisco is setting one up in the front of their shop. Above and beyond the cost of the tank itself is the small fortune it'll cost to fill with AquaSoil. But is is one gorgeous tank.


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## Steven_Chong

Steve . . . Narcisstic . . . :hihi: :hihi: :hihi: 

Ah, Steve sorry for de-railing and not adding anything productive-- but hearing your name in the same sentance as "Narcissistic" is just too outrageous and ridiculous I can't help but laugh. :hihi: 

On another note, that ADA tank Bill's mentioning sounds sweet


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## fresh_lynny

bharada said:


> Steve, it sounds like you're in dire need of an ADA 180 (180x60x60).
> 
> AquaForest Aquarium in San Francisco is setting one up in the front of their shop. Above and beyond the cost of the tank itself is the small fortune it'll cost to fill with AquaSoil. But is is one gorgeous tank.


I was going to get that one, but the shipping was more than the tank almost. Then I said to myself...<am I nuts?> So I ordered the 120P and it is sitting here in front of my freight elevator, empty....waiting for me to get to it :biggrin:


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## briandmiles

Steve, it would seem that you've already at least partially made up your mind as to dimensions of the tank since you've already picked out your stand and lighting. Feel like letting a little more info out?

Brian


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## Khandurian

If I lived closer to ya Scolly, I would have already been over there and taken that tank off your hands. 

That tank would make an excellent "garage" tank for breeding angels! Let us know when your ready to go on the swap and shop. I'll buy some stuff! (eyeballing that sms122!)


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## bastalker

Khandurian said:


> If I lived closer to ya Scolly, I would have already been over there and taken that tank off your hands.
> 
> That tank would make an excellent "garage" tank for breeding angels! Let us know when your ready to go on the swap and shop. I'll buy some stuff! (eyeballing that sms122!)


LMAO!!!!!!! Yer gonna have ta camp out over there in the S an S. :hihi:


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## BlueRam

scolley said:


> *THE BIG CLEAR KAHUNA*
> 
> The Kahuna sits outside on my deck, waiting to be fixed. I do love that aquarium, and will fix it. But I'm getting a new, bigger, safer tank now, so I doubt I'll ever use it. I do not have the room. Or time. But I definitely don’t have the heart to heart to throw it away. So if anyone wants it, and the stand, and is willing to pick it up, use it, and post here so we can all see it – please PM me. I’m willing to give it away to the right person. And I’ll fix it first too!


Have you considered your local club? I am sure they would be more than happy to take it as a donation or split for an auction or raffle. If something like this were to show up at our auction... It also ensures that the buyer will take care of the RBK for what it is. (Stand too!)

I hope in a month or two a new thread will show up. I can understand why you would want to have the tank up and running before posting if only to filter out "you should put a big HOB on that!" spam. Some time it is better to have an idea spring forth fully formed. Instead you will get the helpful "you can solve X by Y learned opinions."


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## scolley

fresh_newby said:


> I was going to get that one, but the shipping was more than the tank almost. Then I said to myself...<am I nuts?> So I ordered the 120P and it is sitting here in front of my freight elevator, empty....waiting for me to get to it :biggrin:


Puh-leese don't mist take my words (though I don't think you have) that 120-P is an BEAUTIFUL tank! Frankly, IMO the ratio of width:height ratio is much better for a planted tank that the 120-H! Much more visually satisfying. I'm jealous! But at the end of the day it is not appropriate for me as the <18" is just too shallow for discus. But is it an OUTSTANDING tank for plants!

I didn't know they had one of the 180's available. I've checked the pricing to get one shipped from Japan, and I don't mind admiting, the cost of the tank + shipping was something that I just cannot justify. I want it - to be sure! But that combined cost was just too much. And to tie back to my last post... that too was a compromise. An ADA 180 will not allow me the bulkhead holes in the bottom that I want so bad.

I DO have to travel a good bit. And having a low maintanence tank is important to me. And holes in the bottom allow me to install my lovely water-depth sensing mechanism - which enables the auto water change mechanism that is so important to having both discus, and a low maintenance tank. So while Bill (Bhadra) is right on target - I DO CRAVE an ADA 180, it's easy to let that wickedly expensive opportunity go by, as it prohibits my cherished auto water change setup.

briandmiles - Yes buddy, I have already decided the tank's dimensions. LOTS of thought went into that. But I'm gonna hold those cards close to the chest. Suspense is the best part - don't you think. :icon_wink 

And even though I WAS PLANNING on curtailing my forum posting... I was planning on a final S&S thread. Still do. Anyone need a nice 48" 6-bulb Tek light with all the hanging gear and many extra unused bulbs???

And triple_red, bastalker, fresh_newby, and anyone else within 50 miles... I may need some help getting this puppy in the house. It ain't gonna be light. The Kahuna will seem light by comparison, and I think I permanently injured a ligament hauling that thing around. :biggrin:


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## bastalker

scolley said:


> And triple_red, bastalker, fresh_newby, and anyone else within 50 miles... I may need some help getting this puppy in the house. It ain't gonna be light. The Kahuna will seem light by comparison, and I think I permanently injured a ligament hauling that thing around. :biggrin:


Well my friend...I look at it like this...The more the merrier!! Yer jus gonna have to cough up the suds!!! :biggrin:


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## A Hill

scolley said:


> Suspense is the best part - don't you think. :icon_wink
> 
> And even though I WAS PLANNING on curtailing my forum posting... I was planning on a final S&S thread. Still do. Anyone need a nice 48" 6-bulb Tek light with all the hanging gear and many extra unused bulbs???
> 
> And triple_red, bastalker, fresh_newby, and anyone else within 50 miles... I may need some help getting this puppy in the house. It ain't gonna be light. The Kahuna will seem light by comparison, and I think I permanently injured a ligament hauling that thing around. :biggrin:


Ahh Steve, Isn't that a classic saying by you...:hihi: 

If the price is right I will jump on that light... I have no idea what the price will be though, I have some X-mass money sitting around waiting to be used still... And other money please let me know when you are selling it and how much you would like!!

Steve, if you don't mind a _teen _ helping you guys I'll see if I can come help out:hihi: 

But who knows... Maybe I could convince the parrents to let me buy the tank off you:help: 

Thanks for sharing all the stuff about the BCK though, I'm sure that there are many new members here because of that. To say the least, But for me it just would get too confusing so I would only post on it once and a while:hihi: 

-Andrew


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## scolley

Fish Newb - Teens are MOST welcome Andrew! One of the great joys of this community is that our common interests break down typical age/gender/class/racial/religious boundaries I love that and you would be VERY welcome.

No suds for you though. :icon_wink 


As for the Kahuna. It is not for sale. It (tank and stand) is a gift... to the right home. If it is destined to wind up in someones garage, or with crap lights over it, or with a crappy aquascape, I'll just keep it. It is a FINE SHOW TANK. And if I do get a credible request from someone that can/will use it as such, I'm happy to let it go. Otherwise I will go into storage for when I have more time.


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## A Hill

scolley said:


> Fish Newb - Teens are MOST welcome Andrew! One of the great joys of this community is that our common interests break down typical age/gender/class/racial/religious boundaries I love that and you would be VERY welcome.
> 
> No suds for you though. :icon_wink
> 
> 
> As for the Kahuna. It is not for sale. It (tank and stand) is a gift... to the right home. If it is destined to wind up in someones garage, or with crap lights over it, or with a crappy aquascape, I'll just keep it. It is a FINE SHOW TANK. And if I do get a credible request from someone that can/will use it as such, I'm happy to let it go. Otherwise I will go into storage for when I have more time.


Ohh that's what I love about the hobby as well. But its funny if you say that to someone who isn't in the hobby, they don't truly understand:hihi: .

Ohh MAN!!:icon_wink 

If there was only more room.... Who knows maybe I'll give you a pm sometime asking if you still have it:icon_wink 

-Andrew


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## jasonh

Well it's good to see that you're staying, Steve. I was disappointed when I read you were taking a break, so it's a good thing a page or two later you were back 

I've always enjoyed your threads, even though I've had little to contribute. Keep up the good work


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## IUnknown

What about Aquarium Obsessed - Aquatronica, Custom Aquariums, H&S, Tunze, Fauna Marin, Milwaukee, Prodibio, Shuran, Sfiligoi and More! steve? They do starphire, custom bulkheads and you could get the 180 for a lot less than ADA.


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## scolley

IUnknown said:


> What about Aquarium Obsessed - Aquatronica, Custom Aquariums, H&S, Tunze, Fauna Marin, Milwaukee, Prodibio, Shuran, Sfiligoi and More! steve? They do starphire, custom bulkheads and you could get the 180 for a lot less than ADA.


I checked these guys out before building the Kahuna. Shipping thick glass tanks is insanely expensive. And risky. Plus the cost...

You take their basic two grand they want for a 180, figure you put another 5 to 7 hundred on top of that because I want it longer, (not as high) with more customization. Then you put another grand or more down to get it shipped to me, and pretty soon you are into real money. :icon_frow


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## triple red

scolley said:


> And triple_red, bastalker, fresh_newby, and anyone else within 50 miles. may need some help getting this puppy in the house. It ain't gonna be light. The Kahuna will seem light by comparison, and I think I permanently injured.. I a ligament hauling that thing around. :biggrin:


lookin forward to it....:icon_smil
and theres no problem in the strength department here....:hihi:


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## A Hill

triple red said:


> lookin forward to it....:icon_smil
> and theres no problem in the strength department here....:hihi:


Same...

Now I feel like an insider:hihi: Can't say why though... Or I might wake up in a pool of blood:help: .

-Andrew

Ok, Just kidding on the pool of blood... bit of an exaggeration... (just a little Maybe I wouldn't wake up lmao)


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## m.lemay

The suspense is killing me!!


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## Yzmxer99

Well, I finally made it through this entire post and let me say it was a journey. At first I felt really sorry for scolley and the BCK. It has been a part of the TPT life. But, now I'm ok with the loss. I think this show's scolley's strength. Like a phoenix he always rises from the ashes with something amazing. No pressure, but we are all waiting to see what you can rise up with this time.


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## Khandurian

m.lemay said:


> The suspense is killing me!!


This is horrid isnt it?! I can't wait to see the new setup too!


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## tundragirl

Like all good things....It will be worth the wait...:biggrin: :biggrin: Scolley wouldn't have it any other way:wink:


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## scolley

tundragirl said:


> Like all good things....It will be worth the wait...:biggrin: :biggrin: Scolley wouldn't have it any other way:wink:


Cindy, as much as I wish that were true, without unlimited money or time, whatever I do will be a compromise. The challenge is, I suppose, if I can make it a really nice compromise. :icon_wink 

*
KAHUNA REPLACEMENT UPDATE*
Well, I've exchanged written specs with a someone that I'm confident can produce a nice custom tank. And my lights came in today!!! :biggrin: So things are rolling along.


*TRASH CAN UPDATE*
But the trash can is looking a little sad.



















In these pics you can see a few notable things:

1) The top sagging from melting under the heat of the double T8 light.

2) The sides buckling from the heat of the submersed heaters.

3) The Big Clear Kahuna, banished out to the deck (where it started life... ) :icon_frow 

4) A discus alive in the tank, but barely visible - they hide in the dense plants most of the time.

5) Buttons on front that through X10, and RF commands turn lights on and off, and will turn the filter off for 90 minutes (before turning it back on). The spraybar makes an awful racket when watching the tele.

6) The new leather furniture that the leak "necessitated".

7) The corner where Kahuna was, now occupied by a decorative table - the new aquarium having been banished to a less visible spot (by wifely decree).​
But I might add, it's a larger spot. :hihi: 

This is working OK. But I'm looking forward to the next tank.


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## Betowess

Lets see, you're selling the 4 foot Tek. And its a bigger space. hmmm. Must be at least 5 or 6 feet long. Nice trash can in the living room Steve.:hihi: Bet that is real popular with the one who must be obeyed. LOL


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## jpfelix

sorry for your loss! glad to see you're taking advantage of the situation though. it's always nice when you get to upgrade "with good reason"!

you may think about upgrading your trash can as well as your tank! keep your eyes on those lower corners...i had a can similar to that split. it was a slow leak, but not something i'd want in my livingroom!

i have my big reef tank all planned out! when the basement is ready, i'll order the 8ft bohemeth. and with a well planned vacation to niagra (and slight detour!), i'll pick up the monster and save a little shipping money.


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## scolley

Bought the stand today. Waiting for it to be delivered.

Now just gotta get that tank! The wait for information on tank availability is killing me, because I want to be done with this! My poor fish need to get out of that trash can. :hihi:


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## kzr750r1

scolley said:


> Bought the stand today. Waiting for it to be delivered.
> 
> Now just gotta get that tank! The wait for information on tank availability is killing me, because I want to be done with this! My poor fish need to get out of that trash can. :hihi:


Still looks like a good save though with the recent pictures. The fish are a lucky bunch to have a daddy like you Steve.

Did you get a count of green tetras before everyone went into the can? Not that it would have been a priority in a panic situation.


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## scolley

kzr750r1 said:


> Did you get a count of green tetras before everyone went into the can? Not that it would have been a priority in a panic situation.


I'm afraid you hit that nail right on the head. I was doing lots of stuff quickly, but counting was not one of them.

But FWIW, I really don't think I still have the original 65 or so that I started with. It looked more like 40 to me. That said, schools always look smaller than they are. Go look at an Amano tank with neons, guess the count. And then go back and actually count them. I guess WAY too low every time. Maybe I did the same thing here.

So, since I don't know, I'll definitely count 'em going the other way!


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## Steven_Chong

Maybe you need extra-tough trash can steve to prevent the melting. I think they have 1" thick ones around. :hihi:


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## bastalker

Hey Steve... I have a new nick name for ya...

Master of Disaster! Ya just need a mask now.:biggrin: :wink:

The kids are lookin chipper though! Lookin like they will be troopers thru the long haul!

Give me a call when ya get the tank my friend!

tc


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## tundragirl

Gee Steve don't you think you might want to move the new sofa away from the melting garbage can just in case???? If that thing give way your wife might just ...............hate to be pessimistic but that thing looks bad.


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## scolley

I don't think the trash can is really gonna melt. It's been that way for weeks now, and doesn't seem to be getting much worse. But, those could wind up being famous last words too... :biggrin:


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## SCMurphy

You know the floor looks pretty good for having had all that water on it.


----------



## tundragirl

Ok -just looked kind of scary -I wouldn't want your wife to throw you out. you might need to live in the kahuna then:wink:


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## Khandurian

scolley said:


> I don't think the trash can is really gonna melt. It's been that way for weeks now, and doesn't seem to be getting much worse. But, those could wind up being famous last words too... :biggrin:


The new leather needs a bath already? :icon_wink 

My wife has been watching this thread along with me, and she agree's, you have a very understanding and loving wife!


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## KevinC

scolley said:


> *TRASH CAN UPDATE*
> 
> 2) The sides buckling from the heat of the submersed heaters.


Actually Steve, I think that is buckling from the weight of the water. I have a Rubbermaid in the garage for some angelfish babies - it is a rectangle - like a cooler - and bowed out at the long sides, but hasn't gotten any worse over the months. I also put a wood clamp across the container to help keep it from bowing any more - just in case.

Kevin


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## scolley

KevinC said:


> Actually Steve, I think that is buckling from the weight of the water.


Thanks Kevin! That would explain why it has not gotten any worse.

I DO hate to think about the possibility of a repeat! :eek5: Even if on a smaller scale...


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## Yzmxer99

This is an awsome thread, in that I'm sure we all share these post with are loved one's who deal with these fears and the time comsumed by our tanks. I share them with my fiance and laugh. Thanks for the smiles.


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## melbourne

Hi,

Sorry to hear about your tank. I noticed that you went to House of Fins to look at tanks. Oceanic also makes a brickhouse style tank that is braceless. It uses thicker glass. I know on my 140g a standard Oceanic Reef Ready - it uses a clear starphire brace which doesn't inhibit the light much. I ended up getting my Oceanic ordered at Animal Kingdom in Brewster since it was much cheaper. And I had my custom cabinet built by BRI in Florida. House of Fins has nice custom stands but they charge too much for them IMO.

-Mike



scolley said:


> Hey! I'm always up for a beer! Shucks, I just bought 6 "growlers" of fresh brew up in New Hampshire last weekend... Maybe I'll tap one now!
> 
> But first...
> 
> I've looked at the AGA 120s, both the 120-P (120L x 45W x45H), and the 120-H (120L x 45W x 60H). Beautiful tanks. And have talked to Jeff Senske about ordering one. First, after the Kahuna, I could only get the 120-P. The 120-P is a magnificent tank, but I prefer AT LEAST the depth of the 120-H for discus.
> 
> But ultimately I've conclude that they are too small for discus. That 120-P is definately. And teh 120-H is pushing it. And I would like more open space in my aquascape. And that takes a much bigger tank.
> 
> But if I chicken out on a bigger tank, I DEFINITELY seeing about a 120-H.


----------



## scolley

melbourne said:


> Hi,
> 
> Sorry to hear about your tank. I noticed that you went to House of Fins to look at tanks. Oceanic also makes a brickhouse style tank that is braceless. It uses thicker glass. I know on my 140g a standard Oceanic Reef Ready - it uses a clear starphire brace which doesn't inhibit the light much. I ended up getting my Oceanic ordered at Animal Kingdom in Brewster since it was much cheaper. And I had my custom cabinet built by BRI in Florida. House of Fins has nice custom stands but they charge too much for them IMO.
> 
> -Mike


Thanks Mike. I'm in full agreement. But I was dealing with HoF because they do such a volume that they are very well connected with all the distributors - so that have great access, and visibility into, all the oceanics available in the northeast. I haven't been dealing with issues of "what do you have in stock", but instead "what can you get?".

It appears that Oceanic has discontinued their braceless stands - for now. I checked. And the stand that I bought, had delivered, and had removed because of the bad scratch, was exactly the type of stand you have - with the starphire brace, reef-ready. Which BTW, in the size I want, the distribution channels are dry on those, and Oceanic is apparently cutting back on production until their new product line comes out. My timing is just bad.

Thanks for the tip on Animal Kingdom though, I'll give them a call. Since I'm planning on mailing a deposit on a custom tank today, I'd better act fast.


And thank you, Yzmxer99!


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## scolley

*Quick update*

I've had no takers on the Kahuna. So I'm moving it, and stand, out to a storage shed once the weather warms up a bit.

The fish are still in the trash can. I'm worried about stunting them, as I'm only feeding them once a day. They have been on just less than 1/2 rations for a long time now. And it's going to be longer still.

I've created a little project plan for building this new tank, primarily to help me get my head around to proper order of events. And more important - to understand the critical path - the things that I have to move on or the whole thing gets delayed. I've also done it to understand my slack time - as represented by the green bars - the amount of time something's completion can delay before it delays another activity. 










But this plan _does not_ have accurate durations. It's really more just to understand order of events. Yet it is clear to see a few things - I'm already behind plan, and that I still have loads of time to prepare. Everything is waiting on the arrival of the tank.

But I'm not waiting on the tank!

By the time the tank arrives, I will have already set up the stand - with plumbing, used a 2nd garbage can as temp tank, gotten my new fish, quarantined and cycled in the temp tank (garbage can). So when then tank arrives there will be little to do except aquascape and dump in the discus! :smile: I hope.

The new stand arrives today. And I've got to start moving Kahuna plumbing into the new stand. That _should _be easy. But of course we learn from out mistakes. So I'm trying to improve things in the process. And that will just add more time.

Which hopefully will not cause even more time at 1/2 rations for the fish.


----------



## naX

You are one organized man, Steve. I admire you for that! I use MS Project every day at work (Web Developer) and I would NEVER be organized enough at home to even THINK about using it.

Everything will work out for you in time. You're too stubborn for it to not.


----------



## BlueRam

Steve:

I hope you do decide to go with a sump. I get the feeling you will like it. Now if you plan ahead and get the sump drilled ~2/3 the way up and hooked up to a drain, you can simplify the auto change system. Basically turn on the water for a set time and let the excess in the sump drain away. In the event of a power failure, you will loose some water.

Now the other big advantage of a sump is that you can simplify 46-51 by treating the current discus tank as a sump on wheels (use a low flow pump to pump water from the discus into the big tank, use the overflows to return the water to the sump.) Set up a rate of ~10 gal/hour and let it sit for a day or two. You will need to disconnect the wheeled sump after the fish are moved but working with a standpipe is not working with bottom ports.

Sorry to hear about the Kahuna. If only I lived closer...


----------



## joejoe123

just saw this thread im sorry this happened that was my favorite tank i just loved it i hope you can get it fixed back up

joey


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## fresh_lynny

Holy crap, Steve...what an outline. Want to come help me plan mine???
As for the shipping I was looking into for you, my fine art shipper who was doing me a huge favor, quoted me 1600 bucks...favor? not so much


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## BlueRam

Item 10 looks like 3/4" plywood. Sounds like something you would need for a acrylic tank. Are you going with overflows or a drilled bottom now?


----------



## scolley

*Welcome to my nightmare...*

Well, another stand delivered. Another stand returned!

What a bummer. This stand was just a replacement of the first stand. Same make and model. The last one I had removed because I was purchasing the tank and stand as a pair, and the glass was scratched (which was given away to a local high school BTW - no way to sell that tank). So I ordered another of the same model of stand.

It arrived today. Got it inside, and saw that the wood was significantly darker than the first one. I got a second opinion - the one that mattered :icon_wink , and became quickly clear that the new stand was going back too.

Bummer. Now I've got a tank being built, with no stand. And have a REAL problem in that I now have iron clad proof that colors vary, and color do not always match samples - even on decent stands. So it's either custom - which I can't aford, build - which I don't have time for, or find something acceptable and then find a showroom where my wife can see a sample. This is gonna be a problem.

More 1/2 ration time for the fish. And I'm WAY behind plan now...



*naX *- That plan is not the sign of an organized mind - quite the opposite. People that can do simple math quickly in their heads have a diminished need for calculators. And people that can do simple organization without a crutch don't need project plans for simple things. I need a crutch. :redface: 

*BlueRam *- I wish you lived closer too. But I'm not doing a sump. Sorry. I looked REAL HARD at sumps. And I like to think I was pretty methodical in my comparison of sump vs. closed loop. For those people that follow such things (you and I to start a short list) the benefits and disadvantages of both are pretty well understood. The decision point rests with the weighting you give those various characteristics. For the weightings (to my surprise) tipped to the decision to closed loop. But not by a whole lot.

*joejoe123* - Thanks Joey. I may just fix it again someday!

*fresh_lynny* - Love the new name Lynn. And I need to go see how your new tank is doing! 

And thanks for checking on that shipping. I've recently gotten an unwelcome crash course in freight shipping. And I don't know much, but I do know that your inference is right. Calling $1600 a good deal is way off the mark.

But thanks a mil' for checking!


*BlueRam *- You are just too clever! Except there are some other kinds of tanks that require support...


----------



## Khandurian

Poor Scolley,

You just are having the worst of luck right now. Hopefully your kharma will turn around soon!


----------



## slickwillislim

I don't know if this is an option but my LFS has unfinished stands so you can paint them to match, your getting a rather large tank so this might not be an option. 

Less time than building one, but its still a lot of work. Just as suggestion. 

Your journal and this thread have been quite the adventure. I wish you the best of luck with your new project.


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## PDX-PLT

I gotta hand it to ya -- I don't think I could take using a Gantt chart for home stuff -- too much like work. OTOH, I did use Powerpoint to put together the argument to convince my wife to buy a vacation house (again, travelling somewhere's and checking into some hotel is too much like work).

'sorry to hear about the stand. I can relate; most stands are something I'd never consider putting in my living room. I'm building my own, but it will take a few months with my schedule - so far it's just a bunch of skip-planed Quartersawn White Oak sitting in my shop, and a plan in Visio on my PC.


----------



## scolley

slickwillislim said:


> I don't know if this is an option but my LFS has unfinished stands so you can paint them to match, your getting a rather large tank so this might not be an option.


Wow. I'd love an unfinished stand, if I knew where to get one! But you are right. Size is my biggest problem. Once you start looking at big tanks, your stand options diminish severely. I've learned that the hard way.

But even if it was unfinished, it would have to be the right wood. The room it is going in has wood schizophrenia right now, and the wife will not tolerate a new very large wooden object making it worse. Which is understandable. That room has oak floors and an oak built in bar. And my wife hates oak. But it is already there, so I could get oak (the two removed stands were oak), as long as it was the right color. The other woods are unfinished (just rubbed wax) pine furniture. But though that is the cheapest of woods, the furniture has been well crafted, and has a nice genteel look with a slightly rustic edge (because it's just waxed pine). And finally, the wood color counterpoint is cherry - which unfortunately comes in a gawd awful number of shades. Tough to match cherry. And all the pine stands available look just a bit too rustic for this room.

Anybody know where to find large unfinished oak stands?


*Khandurian* - Thanks. I do believe my Karma is OK. IMO, if your life is so good that your _problems _revolve around not being able to get the right kind of furniture to support your hobby, then you've got it pretty good. :thumbsup: Life is GREAT when these are your worse problems!


*PDX-PLT* - You don't want to share those plans do you? Is this going to be a big tank?


----------



## Khandurian

scolley said:


> *Khandurian* - Thanks. I do believe my Karma is OK. IMO, if your life is so good that your _problems _revolve around not being able to get the right kind of furniture to support your hobby, then you've got it pretty good. :thumbsup: Life is GREAT when these are your worse problems!


I was referring to your fish karma! Guess I should have mentioned that :hihi: 

Good luck though! All the waiting will most likely be well worth it.


----------



## jasonh

Steve,

If all else fails, just remember: black goes with everything  (mostly joking)


----------



## guaiac_boy

I looked at many stand options for my 180 which had the same constraints: pre-existing wood, ever-present 2nd opinion , and my desires regarding openings, height, and functionality. I finally had a custom one made by a cabinet maker. It ended up a few hundred $$ more expensive, but it looks fabulous and _exactly_ matches the wood in the rest of the house. It also has the doors and openings in the right places. Well-worth the effort and added $$ IMO.


----------



## naX

scolley said:


> *naX *- That plan is not the sign of an organized mind - quite the opposite. People that can do simple math quickly in their heads have a diminished need for calculators. And people that can do simple organization without a crutch don't need project plans for simple things. I need a crutch. :redface:


:hihi: Hehehe, that gave me a chuckle. It gave me the mental picture of our Project Management at work being Chimpanzee's. I've always thought that their management skills and timelines aren't too reasonable, and now I really have to ponder on your "crutch" statement. 

Crutch or not, I think having a good plan (whether on paper/file, or in your head) of any sort shows dedication and attention to detail. I know you are working hard and dedicating a lot of time, money, etc to your project. It will pay off big in the long run. Just stick with it!


----------



## Betowess

Steve, from looking at your house, why not have a custom stand made which is painted to a cool (grey to blue/green or whatever) color. It would look more Amano style and modern. Bet your wife would love it. A good finish carpenter or cabinet shop could crank it out in days. And you paint it to save a bunch. Or multiple stain coats like I did on my DIY stand. Its simple and doesn't look grainy, just a dark almost Mission (red oak) color. Just an idea.


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## scolley

I'll try to wrap up the replies in short...

Black does not work. Sorry. That's a lot of black in a room (house!) with no black furniture. Which brings me to modern - we have none. As in none. So that rules out a LOT of stand possibilities. Also rules out a lot of DIY.

As for custom, I suppose I need to look more. I can find unfinished stands on eBay for a few hundred bucks (just not in my size). But the same thing here (in the correct size) runs 10 times that much. I kid you not.

This is just going to take research and time. And I'm going to be away on business every day (M-F) for the next month. :icon_frow 

It's half ratios for the fish for a long time I'm afraid.


----------



## jasonh

I really was mostly kidding about the black  We have a lot of black, and a lot of wood tones, so they go well together, but I suppose if you have no black, it would look fairly odd. 

Maybe you could see about pricing on having a pro refinish a store-bought stand that is the wrong color? That way you get the stand you want, in the color you want, and you don't have to do anything yourself, since you're awfully busy. It could end up being cheaper than having one custom made, and easier than getting an unfinished one at high prices and then still having to finish it yourself.

Just a thought.


----------



## Noz2Glass

I noticed That Pet Place offers stands 'made by local craftsmen'. If they're not too far (Lancaster, Pa), they might be able to get you a stand in unfinished oak. I can't vouch for the product though, just noticed they offer them.
Sorry to hear about the Big Kahuna.


----------



## RoseHawke

Well, what about going ahead and getting one of the "modern" stands and then just changing out the doors? There are places that do "cabinet parts" (www.scherrs.com comes to mind) and I've seen just regular raised panel doors in standard sizes offered on eBay as well. Paint the b*gger and Bob's your uncle. Plain frame and panel door isn't that bad, although the raised panel jobs for one that size might run up to $75 apiece or so. There may even be some at the BORG in the right size.


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## wendle

I'll custom build you a cabinet. Whatever colour, style, size you want. Freight might be a killer though. :lol:


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## PDX-PLT

scolley said:


> *PDX-PLT* - You don't want to share those plans do you? Is this going to be a big tank?


Steve - I can share it in a day or so once I get a chance to clean it up; it's in rough form right now. It looks something like this (click for a full-size jpeg): 



I haven't posted anything to the DIY section because it's not exactly a typical DIY'er project. It assumes a fairly well-equipped workshop, that only a woodworker (hobbyist or a pro) would have.

--Barry


----------



## unirdna

Steve,

I completely missed it - ugh. I won't restart the lamentation, but I do want to know how this progresses - key word = "progress" .

Ted

PS. And if you ever reduce your posting because you feel like an attention junkie, I'm kicking your butt! Your words get read because they are worth reading - Period. That's all I'm saying about that.


----------



## scolley

:icon_wink All - am on another (of the seeminly endless biz trips), so cannot reply reasonably at the time. So I'll just say thanks! Good advice from all! Though your tip on doors Cindy is mucho welcome. I had the discussion with the wife this weekend:

"But Honey, think about how good it would look if we just primed then painted it with a good color, replaced the hardware, and replaced the doors".

"What? Where would I get new doors? I dunno... "

Thanks for helping. I was having trouble with that one. :hihi: 

Ted - I owe you. Consder it done.

PDX-PLT - Thanks Barry. Looks like a beautiful stand. Will you be creating interior (of above tear-away) views? And can you modify for different dimensions. If so, pls PM.


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## fresh_lynny

Steve...here is the answer!!!!! http://cgi.ebay.com/Aquarium-ACRYLI...089928765QQcategoryZ20755QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


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## Khandurian

fresh_lynny said:


> Steve...here is the answer!!!!! http://cgi.ebay.com/Aquarium-ACRYLI...089928765QQcategoryZ20755QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem



Naples Florida!!!!

Hmmm..... Not too far from me... <ponders what wife would say or do>


----------



## m.lemay

Khandurian said:


> Naples Florida!!!!
> 
> Hmmm..... Not too far from me... <ponders what wife would say or do>


That tank is so tall that you wouldn't even need a stand for it. Just a platform to raise it and level it. You,d also need some snorkling gear to work on it, but the good thing is that you can actually get in it to reach everything, unlike some of the larger tanks in the 250gal range.

Steve, I too, want an update on your new tank adventures.

Marcel


----------



## scolley

Easy to put it all in a nutshell...

1) Tank is being built, due to be delivered in a couple of weeks.

2) No sign of a stand. A guy on eBay does "self-assemble, stain, varnish" oak stands that might be ok. Except that joinery on the trim needs improvement. I have been in touch with him discussing how I might be able to improve that with some extra wood and my miter saw. Also on the stand topic my LFS has been getting me color samples of everything in "light oak". Gotta drag the wife out to see them when she and I aren't both out of town (lots of biz travel these days).

3) I'm thinking of additional fish, and have already negotiated prices with the seller.

4) I'm thinking of additional plants, and my favorite vendor - aquariumplants.com - has them in stock.

5) My son Stephen's ferret - named George (see pic) - got into one of my plastic laundry bags that was protecting a lot of my anubias on driftwood. Anwyay... with the bag ripped and the plants open to air (unknown to me) I lost a lot of my anubias to dehydration. :icon_frow 

6) And finally - if anyone wants an ADA 120H, call ADG! In a mixup of communication with Jeff Senske he ordered one for me - that I didn't actually want. I'm sure that snafu was my fault. So it's on its way to the US now... crossing the ocean in a container. They are harder to find than hen's teeth. So call ADG quick if you want it!









The ferret enjoys biting things... doesn't bite people though. Or not much anyway. :hihi:


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## FelixAvery

what a rascal of a rodent! he is cute though


----------



## RoseHawke

I don't think ferrets are rodents. More like weasels or martins. I've been able to resist them 'cause I need another pet and responsibility like I need a hole in the head. Pity about the anubias. From what I've seen ferrets are little rascals with the curiosity of a cat but about 10 times the energy and paws that are more like hands. Call it trouble on four feet :hihi: .

Can't wait to see the tank! Hopefully you can find a nice stand or something to complement it. Don't be tempted to take a shortcut with that, remember once that tank is set up it ain't going anywhere and at that point changing out the stand is not an option.


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## pjdutche

Yup, RoseHawke is right - ferrets are carnivores in the weasel family. 

I've had ferrets for about 13 years. My very first ferret was named Sonic, and she nearly met her doom after only one week in our home at the wrong end of a Python siphon. We had hooked it up in preparation for taking water out of the tank and left it lying on the floor, so it was in "vacuum" mode. She curiously poked her head in there and got stuck by the suction. I glanced down and saw her scrabbling, trying to back out, with blood streaming from her nose. Suffice it to say that I simultaneously had a heart attack and aged 50 years on the spot. One emergency vet trip later, we learned that one of her nostrils was basically turned inside out (ow!!), but she was fine. Whew.

That same ferret liked to help me with tank stuff, even after the above incident, and twice tried to stash live animals that she found. One little ancistrus pleco and one firebelly newt. She found each in driftwood that I'd taken out of the tank briefly while siphoning. In each case, the animal was unharmed - seems she didn't want to eat them, just own them. Not a toothmark on them. I'd see her heading to her spot in the closet with something covertly in her mouth. She was a riot.

Another ferret, Mojo, loved to try to steal the nasty, slimy brown filter sponges from the tub while they were being cleaned. Imagine one very excited ferret, water-logged sponge in teeth, head held high to keep it from catching on anything, frantically trying to leap and scramble out of a bathtub. Water and gunk streaming down his head and shoulders the whole time. I nearly gave myself an aneurism laughing at him.

Steve, condolences on the Kahuna, and best of luck with the new project. I generally lurk, but I love reading your messages.


----------



## leoslizards

Heh yeah, ferrets can be a PITA at times but amusing as well. Skunks are even worse.

Like pjdutche I've also owned many ferrets during the years. Here's a pic of the last one I owned. I had to get rid of him about 4 months ago. He was a blaze morph, half normal, half albino. Normal colored body, white head, red eyes.


----------



## plantbrain

S- since it seems you are going open top, try and nice light bar like the AM HQI's.

I'm installing one on a moving light rail so that the light moved front-back every few minutes.

This prevents shading and produces more even growth.
The light is small also.
Looks cool as well.

The bar for the rail is recessed into the ceiling, so all you see is the metal hanger bar and a 1 ft slit section. The light moved about 12" at 10" height, this reduces over spray of light without burning leaves, increases the usability of the light by having it closer and without sacrificing room.

The light has a pair of 70 w HQI and 3x 150 HQI's on separate switches. So the 70w lights come of for 10 hours and the 150's come on for 4 hours midday.

The tank is 30" front to back so I needed to add either 2 light systems, hang them up too high, or add enclosed hoods.

The rail idea is nice and can be made to look very cool.
FYI

The AM sells a 150HQI x 2 and 70 w HQI for a 4ft tank that would look nice.
I just do not like those big wide T5/PC/MH combos personally.


Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## leoslizards

plantbrain said:


> I'm installing one on a moving light rail so that the light moved front-back every few minutes.


How would you make a moving rail?


----------



## scolley

*Ferrets and jelousy*

Well, I knew a picture of a ferret was just begging for ferret related responses. :icon_wink They are cute, fun loving, sweet, and mischevous little buggers, and GREAT pets IMO. God bless all of you that have them!

But they do periodically find a way to do a bit of damage.


*Plantbrain *- Well thanks for making me jelous Tom! Sound's like a killer set up. Or maybe I should say I would kill for that. I'm gonna have to compromse though - no room in my ceiling for recessed hardware. Nor tolerance for visible hardware from the aforementioned "domestic unit". So the rails will have to be just an object of my lust.

Some things never change. :hihi:​
*RoseHawke *- Your caution about doing it right Cindy is not lost on me. Thank you. In fact, it's sucking up time, and money that I did not intend to spend... As I dismantled my old stand (anybody want a stand?) I kept looking at stuff going "that wasn't the best way to do that", and the cost of new garbage keeps piling up. I'm not talking about whiz bang stuff like lights. I'm talking about supposedly cheap fundamentals like plumbing. Have you seen Diabolocanine's plumbing pics with all those lovely PVC unions?

(Again, we are back to the lust topic... )​
Well I have. And I look at those, and in the words of Gabby the prospector from Blazing Saddles, I'm compelled to say "Ga Blamma Damma... " I'm doing it like that!

So the nickles add up. And the time until my poor fish go to full rations just keeps getting longer. :icon_cry: Because, believe me, this is the end point for me - as far as aquaiums in my home go... if I don't do it now, it ain't gonna happen. So as you suggest, I'm trying to do it right. Thanks.


----------



## RoseHawke

Yeah, "cheap" unions add up . I had hoped to get a start on my own "big" tank this year, but suddenly I'm in the middle of a den project, a deck extension/spa project, a master bath/den project, getting my "new" truck into shape, spring gardening . 

I need to be living on a planet with 35 hour days :hihi: . . .


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## dipan

RoseHawke said:


> I need to be living on a planet with 35 hour days :hihi: . . .


Just think about the plant growth!!!


----------



## A Hill

RoseHawke said:


> I need to be living on a planet with 35 hour days :hihi: . . .


I know what you mean!



dipan said:


> Just think about the plant growth!!!


As for plant growth... You could just do it yourself with lighting:hihi: my garage tank has 48hr days:icon_wink (I don't think this is the best though:icon_lol: )

Steve, You might as well do it right while you still can:hihi: Because I have to say, I hate regret...

-Andrew


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## sNApple

good luck with your new set up! i dont know what your plans are cause i dont wanna read 17 pages ehehe gl!


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## scolley

sNApple said:


> good luck with your new set up! i dont know what your plans are cause i dont wanna read 17 pages ehehe gl!


That could be a problem. But I'll put your mind at ease... you haven't missed anything because I haven't posted the plans. Probably won't provide much detail until it is all set up and read for pics.

At least that's my plan at the moment. Though some people (Blueram... ) are pretty good a deduction!


----------



## BlueRam

scolley said:


> *RoseHawke *- Your caution about doing it right Cindy is not lost on me. Thank you. In fact, it's sucking up time, and money that I did not intend to spend... As I dismantled my old stand (anybody want a stand?) I kept looking at stuff going "that wasn't the best way to do that", and the cost of new garbage keeps piling up. I'm not talking about whiz bang stuff like lights. I'm talking about supposedly cheap fundamentals like plumbing. Have you seen Diabolocanine's plumbing pics with all those lovely PVC unions?


I can give you some unions and plumbing that I did not use in my projects if you like. I am keeping them at your local hardware store so I can fund the "Steve's discus housing fund" PayPal account of their choice and you can just go pick them up! A small price to pay for the adventures and pictures over the years.


----------



## scolley

BlueRam said:


> I can give you some unions and plumbing that I did not use in my projects if you like. I am keeping them at your local hardware store so I can fund the "Steve's discus housing fund" PayPal account of their choice and you can just go pick them up! A small price to pay for the adventures and pictures over the years.


:icon_redf 
[BLUSH ON]
Wow! What a kind offer! Thanks pal!

But those unions are already in a UPS truck on the way to my house. So I can't take you up on that offer. In fact (I'm ashamed to admit) that some of my uncertainties in how my plumbing will ultimately look caused me to over-buy. Notice I haven't posted any plumbing plans? That's because I'm still unclear about how the physical layout will work.

I know what all the parts are... two heaters, two canisters, one UV filter, etc. And I know what the order is of where they go sequentially in the plumbing. But what I DON'T know is how I'm going to bolt it all in. And that drives the number of unions.

But I DO APPRECIATE the offer! Thank you. And I understand it is not really an offer to me, but one that benefits the whole community (assuming of course I post about it! :icon_wink ).

And I've had a few other quite generous offers in PM's (all graciously declined). But to yours Blueram, and all the others, I AM deeply appreciative.
[/BLUSH OFF]

Thank you.


----------



## RoseHawke

Steve, such is par for the course. Try getting into "real" plumbing in the house. Or electrical for that matter. I never know what's going to show up until I get into it so I always buy "what I need" and a couple extra. To be on the safe side. It's better than having to run out in the middle of a project, or worse wait on an order, because you're a couple pieces short. Sometimes literally :tongue: . It never fails that in real life something's gonna be in the way requiring a couple 45 angles or sweep 90s or something else unforeseen. I've got enough leftover parts to start a hardware store!

_Nunquam Facile Est_ ("It's Never Easy".) I swear I'm gonna have that put on my tombstone. Or at least I would if I was gonna have one :hihi: .


----------



## A Hill

RoseHawke said:


> _Nunquam Facile Est_ ("It's Never Easy".) I swear I'm gonna have that put on my tombstone. Or at least I would if I was gonna have one :hihi: .


I agree, What language is that? Latin? Looks a bit french but its wierd if it is... Latin probably?

Well it sounds like the tank is coming then! thats always good:hihi: 

Where did you order your stuff? I just got a nice order from Drs. Foster and Smith, love that store:icon_smil 

-Andrew


----------



## scolley

*parts, parts, parts...*

Andrew, I'm afraid I'm like Cindy... I could stock 1/2 of her hardware store with the extra parts I've got too. I always pick up extra (if it's cheap), because I HATE being in the middle of something and realizing that I don't have enough parts. Even when I try detail plans, there is ALWAYS still something I didn't think of.

Unfortunately the Home Depot's near me are pretty bad in their PVC selections. So I usually turn either here to Aquatic Ecosystems, or here at Marine Depot. 

I'm a big fan of Drs F&S myself, but not for plumbing. I watch their sales, and get fish from them. Their fish prices are steep. But in my experience their mortality is almost zero. And when you factor that in (think cardinal tetras or otos!), and if you buy a bunch of fish at once to spread the shipping cost around, their prices aren't so bad.


----------



## RoseHawke

Fish Newb said:


> I agree, What language is that? Latin? Looks a bit french but its wierd if it is... Latin probably?


Yup. Latin. I don't know how correct it actually is, my nephew by marriage the soon-to-be-graduated college student translated it for me a few years back.


----------



## jpfelix

when ordering plumbing parts don't forget about savko!:icon_wink 

they don't have everything but they usually have enough to save some bucks. service is great also!


----------



## guaiac_boy

Steve, I did something very similar to what you're describing. I did a closed-loop with a CO2 reactor and a UV sterilizer and also 2 canister heaters and 2 Hydor in-line heaters each on their own loop. The whole thing is set up to fill from an RO reservoir and drain directly to the house's sewer. The PVC plumbing for all this took an unbelievable amount of time.

I used the old standby cut, glue, and fit method with 3/4 and 1" PVC. Someone very smart told me I should have gone with the newer flexible tubing with the crimp connectors. It would have saved a ton of time and actually decreased the length of my runs and total number of fittings. All of that would have resulted in less overall resistance.

Despite my careful drawings and plans I ended up making 4 or 5 extra trips to the plumbing store. Trying to do all that mail order would have driven me crazy. I also went through about 40' of PVC pipe. Yeah, 40 feet! It absolutely blew me away. Some of it does go through the wall and around a couple of corners. Still, it gets used up very quickly if you're cutting it for short connections.


----------



## RoseHawke

Steve, do you have a local Ace Hardware? Just in case . I usually forget about them since they're smaller, but quite often I can find something _there_ that I can_not_ find at the BORG. They tend to have some unusual stuff. Things like 9/16 augur bits and such (which neither Lowes nor HD did.) And they have (at least mine does) a pretty good selection of PVC parts.


----------



## kzr750r1

guaiac_boy said:


> I used the old standby cut, glue, and fit method with 3/4 and 1" PVC. Someone very smart told me I should have gone with the newer flexible tubing with the crimp connectors. It would have saved a ton of time and actually decreased the length of my runs and total number of fittings. All of that would have resulted in less overall resistance.


Are you referring to the Aquapex solution?

We had the house re piped with this last year. Cool system. No Glue. There are several connector types but I like the slip fit collars and barb connectors. The material has a memory and once stretched over a barb fitting with their compression tool the only way I see for it to come off is cutting it out. There are also several manifolds available as well. It's also rated for hot water.  Sorry to go here Scolly since your probably already down the PVC path with your plan.


----------



## A Hill

scolley said:


> Andrew, I
> Unfortunately the Home Depot's near me are pretty bad in their PVC selections. So I usually turn either here to Aquatic Ecosystems, or here at Marine Depot.
> 
> I'm a big fan of Drs F&S myself, but not for plumbing. I watch their sales, and get fish from them. Their fish prices are steep. But in my experience their mortality is almost zero. And when you factor that in (think cardinal tetras or otos!), and if you buy a bunch of fish at once to spread the shipping cost around, their prices aren't so bad.


Ohh that stinks, Mine are quite good... I've never bought plumbing from Drs. Foster & Smith either, I would go to a plumbing store to buy that. Their prices are great on aquarium related stuff though. I just got 2L Flourish Excel for $22:hihi: And their heater prices are amazing, I would pay between 3 and four times the amount they charge around here! Haven't bought fish from them yet, but if i needed something they only have, I would easy. They said it would take 5-7 days to ship my order, but it came Thursday and the order was placed Monday, Talk about fast shipping!



RoseHawke said:


> Yup. Latin. I don't know how correct it actually is, my nephew by marriage the soon-to-be-graduated college student translated it for me a few years back.


I'll ask a few friends what it would be, they are taking Latin. Its probably right. I haven't been able to take Latin yet, so I'm blessed but cursed:icon_lol: 

-Andrew


----------



## scolley

*I can't keep a secret!!!*

I'm so excited! Got this jpg in an email yesterday. Not much to look at. But that's the beginning of my tank! Wooo hoo!










Should have not said anything, but still wanted to let you know that there is PROGRESS!


Cindy - no ACE's here. Bummer.

kzr750r1 - will check out Aquapex. Thanks.

Andrew - You might also check out ThatPetPlace. They ship really quickly to places in the northeast. It's only UPS ground. But it gets to me in 24 hours if I place an order before noon.


----------



## Betowess

OMG! Happy for ya pal.


----------



## bharada

Steve,
Did you order the tank from Gen? Just curious as it looks like his shop's floor...or does every acrylic fabricator have a doggy bed in the workshop? :hihi:


----------



## scolley

bharada said:


> Steve,
> Did you order the tank from Gen? Just curious as it looks like his shop's floor...or does every acrylic fabricator have a doggy bed in the workshop? :hihi:


That I did Bill. Thanks to your kind help and additional information!

Gen has been a joy to work with. Very open to suggestion, very accommodating. But at the same time if he thinks something won't work, he won't do it. This is going to be a highly customized tank, and he has been great. Very, very competitive pricing too. That said, I still haven't seen it.

Thanks Bob. :icon_wink


----------



## RoseHawke

*Ah-HAH!* So you decided to go with acrylic after all I see! Congratulations! I imagine it's akin to awaiting the birth of a child :hihi: . Well, maybe not quite that but related anyway.

Yup. I've started my "big tank" fund, and have figured out what I will have to do to beef up the support under the floor where it's going, so within a year. As soon as I get through with the *#%@$!!!* den project :icon_roll . 

There's gonna be big tanks all over the place . This is going to be so much fun! And frustrating too, probably , but we should all be used to that by now.


----------



## RoseHawke

Oh, here's ya a resized pic if ya want it. You can snatch it to replace your big one (300kb!) then I can just delete it from here.

Picture gone, see above .


----------



## Khandurian

Good Lord I am JEALOUS!!! Although I have absolutely no room for a tank of that size, it's still a nice dream to have!!!!


----------



## scolley

Cindy - Thanks for the help with that picture! And good luck with that fund. My wife found out about what this is costing, and we had a very stimulating domestic moment. :hihi: All's better now thankfully. Got interesting for a minute though.

Folks - before I corrected my post (and then Cindy hers) I had humongous picture of the tank because me pc died, and I don't have my normal image resizing tools. But Cindy posted one, I used it, and Cindy took hers away. Just in case her posts were confusing anyone.

Kandurian - It's not as big as it looks IMO. It is your basic size they call 180, but my calculations show it to be a good bit smaller - maybe 165. Granted, LOTS of people here have lots bigger tanks, but this is big for me. And I doubt I'll ever get bigger.

Either way it's 6' x 2' x 2'. And yup, it's acrylic. I've gotta go now, but later I'll post about WHY I went this way, and why it looks so big in that shot.


----------



## A Hill

scolley said:


> Either way it's 6' x 2' x 2'. And yup, it's acrylic. I've gotta go now, but later I'll post about WHY I went this way, and why it looks so big in that shot.


Well thats one heck of a nice size! Have you gotten any pictures with those braces you where talking about?

CONGRATS!

-Andrew


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## mr.sandman

> Either way it's 6' x 2' x 2'.


 :drool: 
That is huge!!! Can't wait to see you get started.


----------



## scolley

*Why this tank?*

I know this tank may come as a surprise for some of you, given my love of big clear glass. That hasn't changed. But few things in life don't seem to be wrapped up in some sort of compromise. And as I began to evaluate what my dream tank would be, I realized it did not exist. Or certainly not within my budget. So what did I HAVE to have?

1) The right size
2) No frame around the top - open top
3) Holes in the bottom - where I wanted them - to accommodate drains, air, and water level sensing
4) A high level of confidence that it would not leak
5) Not be too hard to maintain
6) A price I could afford​
All this points to a nice big custom made glass tank. But in the size I want, the price (with shipping!) was insane. There was, of course DIY (been there - done that) or local craftsmen (no proven record) and neither seemed suitable alternatives. Though I did explore both.

And if I couldn't afford custom glass, then it was custom acrylic. No alternative.

*The right size*
Well, big enough to accommodate discus comfortably for starters. But I've spent a few years now drooling over various aquascapes. And I tell you truly, the ones that have really moved me have very, very consistently have been 6'x2'x2'. That or 180cm x 60cm x 60cm, which is the closest metric equivalent. If it weren't for copyright issues, I'd post pictures. But 6x2x2 seems to be a size that lends itself to tanks that take your breath away.

Deeper can be dramatic. But I'm real concerned about the difficulty of maintenance on a deeper tank that is 2 feet front to back. So the size decision was easy.

*No frame on top*
Easy if it's huge custom glass - too expensive. Or a given if it is an ADA (or a few European alternatives), but then I can't drill the bottom. But acrylic has a lot of acrylic on top for bracing. But in a custom acrylic tank I can specify minimal top bracing, which I did. Plus - and this one was a BIG one for me - minimal means NO center brace.

*Holes in the bottom*
I'm having eight (8) holes drilled. I will not use them all at the same time. But it will allow me a good number of variations in aquascape, including it being a full "walk around" tank. Though I won't be setting it up as that now. But since it's costing a pretty penny, I wanted to make sure it would be versatile. And to that end, four of the eight holes are positioned such that I could easily convert to having two standard overflow boxes, should I ever get a wild hair.

*A level of confidence that it would not leak*
It's acrylic. Nuff said.

*Not be too hard to maintain*
I've already factored that into the size decision. Not too deep. Not too far front to back. And having limited bracing on top (with polished edges on the bracing that will be there - polished on both the top and bottom brace edges) means fairly easy access to plants, all without scraping flesh off your arms.

*A price that I could afford*
I can't really discuss that here, other than to say Krittertanks is extremely competitive in their pricing, and acrylic ships for less than glass. And that my wife is still working on remaining calm. :icon_wink But she IS calm, which I suppose is the point.

*Why does the tank appear so big?*
It's not going to have a center brace. And that single decision was the greatest determining factor in buying acrylic. And it has meant that the sides need to be a monstrous 3/4" thick. So looking at it, the sides look thick, so IMO the eye assumes it's a gigantic tank. It's not. Just thick to accommodate my "no center brace" fetish. And those thick sides make it wicked heavy. So moving it requires a hoist, and I suspect that showing in the pic might also make one assume the tank is larger than it really is.

*Conclusion*
I'm thrilled to get this tank! Sure, it's not my perfect tank. I can't afford my perfect tank. I suspect not many of us can.

But I'm sure it's going to be a TRULY wonderful tank. Just wait! You'll see. And it is much, much more than I ever thought I would get a few years ago when I consented to letting my son try his hand a growing a plant in his 2.5g, and I went on the Internet to see if I could learn a bit about just how to do that.:icon_wink


----------



## Chrona

Scolley, I must say, all of your threads make for an interesting read. I suppose it must be the writing style 

It seems this thread has gone from death to rebirth. Perhaps it's time to change the title? I can't wait to see that tank when it's done. And yes, 3/4 inch acrylic looks borderline ridiculous


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## bharada

Steve,
I'm glad I was able to steer you towards a satisfactory solution to your dilemma. 

My tank has 1/2" sides with a 3/4" rim. With your 3/4" sides does that mean your tank's rim is 1" thick?  But to lose the center bracing it's more than worth it.


----------



## scolley

bharada said:


> My tank has 1/2" sides with a 3/4" rim. With your 3/4" sides does that mean your tank's rim is 1" thick?  But to lose the center bracing it's more than worth it.


Bill, My rim is also only 3/4" thick. But my stubborn insistence on no middle brace has had a price - in terms of the width (not thickness) of the rim - 3 & 1/4" rim. I wanted smaller of course. But even more that that I wanted to lose that center brace. And when you consider the tank is 72" x 24", when viewed from above, 3 & 1/4" shaved off that all around the upper perimeter is not terrible. I've drawn scale diagrams of it, when viewed from above. And IMO it will be worth it to lose the brace.

Time will tell.

*Chrona *- Thanks. But if I start a new thread what will I call it? Though I do have a few ideas. :hihi:


----------



## bharada

scolley said:


> Bill, My rim is also only 3/4" thick. But my stubborn insistence on no middle brace has had a price - in terms of the width (not thickness) of the rim - 3 & 1/4" rim. I wanted smaller of course. But even more that that I wanted to lose that center brace. And when you consider the tank is 72" x 24", when viewed from above, 3 & 1/4" shaved off that all around the upper perimeter is not terrible. I've drawn scale diagrams of it, when viewed from above. And IMO it will be worth it to lose the brace.


Compared to the 6"+ wide rim on a standard Tru-Vu tank of this size, 3.25" is nothing. Particulary when you don't have that dreaded center bracing to contend with when cleaning/planting/netting in the tank.

When I look down on my tank from my 2nd floor I still see a giant Lucite paper weight sitting in my living room.


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## kzr750r1

That is what keeps me from going with almost any size tru vu. Keep up the good work Scolly. I love the compromise list and IMO your spot on for your needs since your design criterion is crystal clear. 

I noticed the thickness right away. I hope the best for your floor and load of helpers to get that in place. Better get that North East members list together for the big lift. Props to your wife BTW.


----------



## scolley

bharada said:


> When I look down on my tank from my 2nd floor I still see a giant Lucite paper weight sitting in my living room.


Bill that is brilliant! :hihi: 

I've been ruminating on what I was going to call my next thread. And I've been pouring over "plastic" themes. But "Lucite Paperweight" is brilliant. It's your idea - (and he asks sheepishly...) - can I use it?


*kzr750r1 *- Thanks. I hope my reasoning was solid. I agonized over it, and that "must" have list was rock solid. So it all got down to a process of elimination.

And yeah, we're gonna have to have a moving party.


----------



## RoseHawke

Been there done that on must haves Steve. If you don't get what you really want up front, you're never gonna be happy, and if you're not happy, what's the point? 

Whoof. Standard would be a six inch brace? *That *would be a royal pain to work around in a planted tank. I've no experience with reef, but I get the idea that in reef systems you're not putting your arm in the tank as much as for planted so while 6" might be okay for that I couldn't see doing one for planted. The 3 1/4" should be much more user friendly. Losing the center brace is a definite plus. Never mind the fact that it just looks better, it's a pain even working around the center brace in my dinky little :hihi: 55 so I can imagine what it would be in a larger tank.


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## bharada

Cindy, when I went shopping for my 120 I asked an LFS to get a quote on a drilled Tru-Vu 120. Somewhere along the line the Tru-Vu rep heard "order", instead of "quote" and built and shipped a tank to my LFS. Knowing that it was a mistake, I still went to see it and when I saw the top brace I knew that a commercially made acrylic tank was not for me.

On a 48x24 top, the brace/rim was 6" wide along the front and sides, and 8" along the back. Then there was a 6" center brace. That left two holes of ~15" x ~10" to access the tank through.


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## kzr750r1

bharada said:


> That left two holes of ~15" x ~10" to access the tank through.


Shame since they are local and have a nice finished product from what I've seen. That is the only part kicks them out for me, real shame.



RoseHawke said:


> Never mind the fact that it just looks better, it's a pain even working around the center brace in my dinky little :hihi: 55 so I can imagine what it would be in a larger tank.


You ain't kiddin.


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## A Hill

RoseHawke said:


> Never mind the fact that it just looks better, it's a pain even working around the center brace in my dinky little :hihi: 55 so I can imagine what it would be in a larger tank.


I'm in the same boat.

So Steve, This all started because you wanted to learn about what your son was trying to do? Wow!

-Andrew

You get a picture of those braces done yet?


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## kwonger81

Just read all 20 pages of this thread in 1 sitting (I wouldn't recommend it...) But sure beats studying for board exams.

I've been away from PT for a while (due to above-mentioned board exams) and only learned of the tragic death of BCK today, so I apologize for these belated comments. So sorry about BCK. BCK is (was) in my mind the "gold standard" for a planted tank and you have been a true inspiration for me. I feel badly that you've had to deal with so much adversity (and even suffer the indignity of having malcontents attack you). You sure don't deserve that, and I applaud your willingness to share your personal reflections and experiences with complete strangers. 

I'm eagerly awaiting further updates on your next project. A 6x2x2 is my dream tank as well, so I feel like I can realize my dreams vicariously through your posts!!

Jeff.


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## styxx

kwonger81 said:


> Just read all 20 pages of this thread in 1 sitting (I wouldn't recommend it...) But sure beats studying for board exams.
> 
> I've been away from PT for a while (due to above-mentioned board exams) and only learned of the tragic death of BCK today, so I apologize for these belated comments. So sorry about BCK. BCK is (was) in my mind the "gold standard" for a planted tank and you have been a true inspiration for me. I feel badly that you've had to deal with so much adversity (and even suffer the indignity of having malcontents attack you). You sure don't deserve that, and I applaud your willingness to share your personal reflections and experiences with complete strangers.
> 
> I'm eagerly awaiting further updates on your next project. A 6x2x2 is my dream tank as well, so I feel like I can realize my dreams vicariously through your posts!!
> 
> Jeff.


I second Jeff's comments.


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## scolley

Thanks kwonger81. Thanks Styxx1. I've always thought my primary purpose of posting was learning. I learn from you when you disagree with my thinking, and we all learn from my experience, be it mistakes or successes. 

I just I know vicarious enjoyment, was possible. But never it a lot of thought. But the more I do, the more I suspect that there's a lot of that here.

Well, I'm certainly glad to help with that! And it's easier when the enjoyment is a bit more direct! :icon_wink 


Fish Newb - I don't have pics of the top bracing, nor bottom holes yet Andrew. I think I need to start a new thread for "new tank stuff". The tank isn't going to be finished for a week or so, and will take a week to ship. And I may have him delay it, because I've STILL GOT NO STAND.

I was ready to order one last week when I found out about a bunch of new stands coming available in 2 weeks. So I'm nearly 1 week into that additional delay process.

And the BIG NEWS - but I'm only sharing part of it - is that I've got cool NEW FISH coming in this weekend. I had a major fish acquisition opportunity come up, but I had to move fast. So now I've got TWO fish trashcans. The new one is the quarantine can. But it's got the whole enchilada - filter, heat, air, plants, lights. Not bad for a trash can. Once the biofilter gets cranking, I think I'll add UV!


PS - A little side note here... I wound up speaking to one of our esteemed members here last night for the first time. A phone call. And it was pretty funny because he was really surprised to hear my fairly solid southern drawl! I suppose the ape in a suit doesn't look like a Mobile boy.

So if you read this stuff, and imagine the sound of words in your head, please give mine a generous use of diphthong.:hihi:


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## RoseHawke

scolley said:


> ". . . And it was pretty funny because he was really surprised to hear my fairly solid southern drawl! I suppose the ape in a suit doesn't look like a Mobile boy.
> 
> So if you read this stuff, and imagine the sound of words in your head, please give mine a generous use of diphthong.:hihi:"


Don't ever lose it, bro . Mine's awful as I picked up a fairly rural Southern accent from spending most of my formative high school years at a small town school.

Another trash can, ey? Heck, just getcha a piece of plexi, cut a hole in the side of the can and glue that sucker in. No need for that big fancy tank. And since you're not gonna need it you can just re-route it to Alabama :hihi: .


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## A Hill

scolley said:


> Fish Newb - I don't have pics of the top bracing, nor bottom holes yet Andrew. I think I need to start a new thread for "new tank stuff". The tank isn't going to be finished for a week or so, and will take a week to ship. And I may have him delay it, because I've STILL GOT NO STAND.
> 
> I was ready to order one last week when I found out about a bunch of new stands coming available in 2 weeks. So I'm nearly 1 week into that additional delay process.
> 
> And the BIG NEWS - but I'm only sharing part of it - is that I've got cool NEW FISH coming in this weekend. I had a major fish acquisition opportunity come up, but I had to move fast. So now I've got TWO fish trashcans. The new one is the quarantine can. But it's got the whole enchilada - filter, heat, air, plants, lights. Not bad for a trash can. Once the biofilter gets cranking, I think I'll add UV!
> 
> 
> PS - A little side note here... I wound up speaking to one of our esteemed members here last night for the first time. A phone call. And it was pretty funny because he was really surprised to hear my fairly solid southern drawl! I suppose the ape in a suit doesn't look like a Mobile boy.
> 
> So if you read this stuff, and imagine the sound of words in your head, please give mine a generous use of diphthong.:hihi:


Well That should be cool to see it done, I really want to see that bracing! 

TWO trash cans... I've got some ideas on what the fish are, but there are sooo many ones it could be... Wait and see I guess. Not another GAR?:icon_lol: (just kidding)

Steve, I thought the same thing when I called you about the light (still need to tell you what happened, I'm still pretty mad about it =-/) I can understand that you where an actor though, you sound like it... Didn't notice the southern accent too much though. But IF you changed your avatar... Maybe a orangatang in a suit? I think a chimp is a bit off (just a little!)

The post finally dropped off the front page for a moment... Well now it's been bumped!

-Andrew


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## JFalcon

scolley said:


> And the BIG NEWS - but I'm only sharing part of it - is that I've got cool NEW FISH coming in this weekend. I had a major fish acquisition opportunity come up, but I had to move fast.


Uh oh, those wouldn't be part of Dan's "everything must go vacation sale," now would they? :hihi:


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## scolley

Just jumping in to say "No news" really. Got the new fish (and not discussing the guesses here...) in a quarantine trash can. And plan on getting more new fish, but not until I have the tank running.

I hope to be contacting some of you for help in a week or three, to put the tank on the stand. But since I haven't even ordered the stand, it's hard to say exactly when that will be.

In short, no news. And definately will not have a running tank for at least a month.


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## senso

*Discus Abyss*

Steve

Glad to see the discus bug has hit you. They are great fish. Peaceful, active in their own way and definitely complex. Are you looking for folks to guess or are we meant to wait with bated breath.

180 is a great size. Enjoy the planning and I look forward to following the developments


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## scolley

senso said:


> Are you looking for folks to guess or are we meant to wait with bated breath.


Neither really. :smile: 

I'm just not going into my aquascape plans publicly right now. But I would advise you NOT to wait with too much anticipation. I'm going for another low maintenance tank, so it's not going to be radically different. It's gonna have discus, driftwood, and some of the old plants. But with a few changes mixed in, just to keep it interesting. :icon_wink


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## valleyvampiress

"Got the new fish... in a quarantine trash can."

That's the best quote in this entire thread so far.

BTW, your post about posting a thread with just a pic would be someone wanting attention, I realized is right. It makes me feel guilty for posting my first thread with a pic of my aquarium. Hopefully I can add some detailed information, but so far I have none to report.


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## scolley

*Help!*

I don't have the stand yet. But the tank is pretty much finished - it's sitting in a factory waiting to be shipped. And all the cr*p that goes in the stand is either on order or built already. But my big critical path item is drilling the holes in the stand.

While I can accurately describe where the holes are agreed to be in the tank bottom, only actually placing hands on the tank and knowing where the drilling actually happened will determine if there are any unintentional variances - and where I can drill the holes in the stand. So I've got to get the tank delivered. 

And I've got to put the tank on the - (not yet ordered) - stand to trace the holes for the bulkhead fittings. So, I'm gonna need a few hands SOON to help heft a heavy tank onto a stand.

As such, this is a call to arms for local PT folks inclined to help. I figure I'll follow this up with a few PM's. But the locals I figure should be included in this communal request for the help of a strong arm are - Bastalker, M.Lemay, Triple-Red, , Fish Newb, and of course, my friend timr. And naturally Buck, if he's available.

Now with that said, I've had the pleasure of enormous support from othe people not too far away, which includes the likes of fesh_lynny, Clone, jhoetzl, SuRje1976, tazcrash69, sayn3ver, VITARTE, pineapple, and Momotaro. You are ALL VERY MUCH WELCOME. But you guys are a bit further away, so please don't feel obliged.

For those of you that I've missed - please accept my apologies. But for those of you that I've remembered... you drew the short straw! :hihi: Please let me know if you might be available for a "tank hefting" party. And since I'm trying to coordinate the efforts of many (potentially) people, if that availability would be on the weekend of April the 21st, or alternately April the 28th.

I'll by the beer. You gotta bring the muscle!

Lemme know... that discus trash can tolerance clock is ticking!


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## BlueRam

<Edit>If the tank was already drilled:</edit>

The simple way is to start with a piece of cardboard. Have the factory place a piece of cardboard under the tank, trace the holes (and sizes), take a picture, and send you the cardboard map. It might even fit in a mailing tube. 

At your leisure, cut out the holes and take the map to the stand. Beware, large plastic tanks can be just different enough in dimension from large glass tanks to make fitting a stand or canopy difficult.


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## scolley

BlueRam said:


> The simple way is to start with a piece of cardboard. Have the factory place a piece of cardboard under the tank, trace the holes (and sizes), take a picture, and send you the cardboard map.


Good point. Thanks.

I thought about that, but frankly I'm getting such a good price from Krittertanks that I felt bad about asking for any thing else (other than the tank). But in retrospect, getting such a template in advance, could help so much that it would be worth a peso or two. So, THANKS! I'll ask for that.



BlueRam said:


> Beware, large plastic tanks can be just different enough in dimension from large glass tanks to make fitting a stand or canopy difficult.


Thanks. In my research I've become somewhat amazed (baffled and dismayed) at the lack of true standards with regard to tank "sizes". So, for that reason, I've made sure my tank being delivered is a specific outside measurement. Everything else is subject to calculation!


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## m.lemay

scolley said:


> As such, this is a call to arms for local PT folks inclined to help. I figure I'll follow this up with a few PM's. But the locals I figure should be included in this communal request for the help of a strong arm are - Bastalker, M.Lemay, Triple-Red, , Fish Newb, and of course, my friend timr. And naturally Buck, if he's available.


 First let me start by saying, I'm in! 
As you know I just bought a house, I had the closing on Thursday. So now, I'll be busy with the moving portion of this adventure. But the bulk of the moving should be complete by the 15th. 

I have all the hole saws and stuff to drill the holes in the tank, so if you know where the holes are gonna go we can also get that accomplished on tank hoisting day. I'd feel more comfortable being able to get there on the weekend of the 28th.

Marcel


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## scolley

Thanks Marcel. I've also heard from Triple_Red and SuRje1976. And I'll be surprised if Bastalker doesn't want to come. He's been pretty adamant about helping.

Only problem is you need it to be the 28th. Others are better on the 21st. And me, I don't even know which weekend the tank will be here yet.

So thanks for the offer to help Marcel, Triple_Red and SuRje1976. I'll keep you posted as over the next week or so, as I get more clarity on exactly when all stuff will be here! You'll hear from me soon. Thanks!

And CONGRATULATIONS on the close Marcel! :thumbsup: Good luck with the moving. And yeah - plan on bringing that hole saw! Mine's a piece of cr*p.


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## Khandurian

If I lived up there in that freezing cold area, I would so be there! However, since i'm way down here in Sunny Bikini bound Florida, i'll just have to sit at the beach, drink a beer and think about ya!


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## uncskainch

I've been away from TPT far too long (busy with this that and the other thing, yadda yadda yadda....) and just came in on this thread. I'm SO sorry to hear about the demise of the Kahuna but it sounds like the new tank will be something special!

I love that, with Steve, every problem is a problem to be solved. Every setback is an opportunity to learn. And every new endeavor is a series of puzzles to be pondered, details to be researched (and re-researched!), conventional wisdom to be questioned, and unique solutions to be tested. (Not to mention that the results are always interesting and beautiful.) And best of all, he's willing to share it all with us so we can learn and marvel and weep right along with him.

I swear, you're the only person I can think of who would describe a set up in a GARBAGE CAN and have me thinking, "I can't wait to see this!"


----------



## scolley

*uncskainch *- Thanks for the very kind remarks my friend! I wish all that were completely true. I'm afraid my true attitude is more like trying to make the best of a bad situation. :icon_sad: Reality is a bit less heroic I'm afraid.

*Khandurian *-Thank for the offer! Or was that just a good opportunity to rub it in?  That's OK. I grew up on the Gulf Coast, and I know for a fact that you spend more time sweating that I do. And I, in all likelihood, spend more time snow skiing than you. :hihi: It's not that bad up here.


*UPDATE*
Sorry for the bump on the thread, when there's not a ton to report.

I'm making room in an outdoor shed for the Kahuna and stand. Still no takers on it... all you gotta do is ask. Free to the right home.

Still got two trashcans full of fish. Eating well. Seemingly happy.

My anubias are looking real rough. They aren't getting the light and nutrients they need. I'm not auto dosing, and I'm only fertilizing upon water changes every few days.

I STILL have no stand, and now KNOW that I'll be ordering an unfinished one next week. Which, of course, adds more time to restarting due to sanding, staining, and varnishing. Assembling will be a piece of cake though. 

So I'm definately NOT going to need help on the 21st. And maybe not even the 28th, but May 5th instead. Wow. Long time for fish in a trash can.

The tank is finished and ready to be shipped. And it does hold water, as this pic attests.










And this next pic shows little, but tells the real story. Those eight little holes you see are the reason for many things:


Why I didn't get an ADA tank
Why I got a custom tank
Which in turn lead to why I had to go acrylic, and why I could not get a tank locally.










So why all the trouble, just for a few little holes?

It get's lots of stuff out of the tank. Such as...
I have LOTS of openings for multiple outflow, providing really good water circulation in a large planted tank (a good thing), without also having extremely high water flow (arguably a bad thing in a planted tank - I believe it is anyway).
I can measure my water depth for auto water changes without hanging crap in the tank. My through-the-bottom pressure senor tells the electronics when it is full.
I can use a small through the bottom airline for oxygenation during a power failure. Battery operated. So I don't have to have airlines over the side of the tank. And in a power failure I don't have to keep filters running to oxygenate the water.

More later as the saga unfolds. I'm definitely having fun planning this, but the delays are killing me.


----------



## kzr750r1

Nice looking tank. The top brace is perfect. Just wondering why the additional square openings around the edge?


----------



## scolley

kzr750r1 said:


> Nice looking tank. The top brace is perfect. Just wondering why the additional square openings around the edge?


Thanks. All the openings are to allow inflow pipes.

I hate seeing hardware. But I messed around with through the bottom in-flows on the Kahuna, and have become a reluctant fan of over the side in-flow pipes. Water flowing across the top, and exiting out the bottom creates really nice circulation and keeps the surface clean. So I'll be using inflow pipes.

But my intention is to use the sides. The ones on the front and back are really "just in case". And they are square (instead of rectangular) because my best efforts at communicating my needs to the fabricator still got misunderstood - the rectangular holes went in going side to side - like the ones on the side - rather than front to back. So the fix was to make them square. Or cut off the top and lose height on the tank. I took square.

And FWIW, it was an honest mistake. If you say the technicals that we were working off of, you could see how it could happen.


----------



## Khandurian

My god that is beautiful! I really like that tank. What size is that going to be again? I'm lazy and dont feel like going through 21 pages of posts.


----------



## scolley

Khandurian said:


> My god that is beautiful! I really like that tank. What size is that going to be again? I'm lazy and dont feel like going through 21 pages of posts.


Thanks! Its external dimensions are 72L x 24H x 24W. They call those 180s, but I think most volume calculators will tell you it's more like 160-165. Big but not huge.


----------



## bharada

So the beginning of the "Big Lucite Paperweight" thread draws ever closer? 

Good to see progress on the tank front, Steve. Can't wait for you to finally find a stand for it, too.


----------



## uncskainch

Looks like this will be a another techno-wonder! Bharada can't wait to see the stand -- and I can't wait to see what goes IN the stand! 

And in response to your comment about taking the attitude of making the best of a bad situation -- I've always found a willingness to turn life's lemons into lemonade to be an admirable trait, even if its done somewhat grudgingly.


----------



## scolley

bharada said:


> So the beginning of the "Big Lucite Paperweight" thread draws ever closer?


That it does! It'll be time to shut this thread down soon, and start again. So unless I hear otherwise, I'm going to assume I'm free to quote you on that next moniker. :hihi: 



uncskainch said:


> Looks like this will be a another techno-wonder! Bharada can't wait to see the stand -- and I can't wait to see what goes IN the stand!


Well! That cut's to the meat of the matter doesn't it?:icon_wink 

The tank, if I'm lucky, will be the eye-candy. The stand, or rather what's inside it, I'm hoping will be real tech-candy!

I'm assuming that I'm not gonna spill the beans on the stand internals yet. Will likely wait until it is complete. But you know what I've tried before. Well now I'm trying to do it right. Lessons learned and all that.

And I'm not saving little enhancements for later. If it's going in the stand, I'm assembling it now. So the showing you the finished produce should be a LOT of fun. Can't WAIT to show you.


----------



## bharada

scolley said:


> That it does! It'll be time to shut this thread down soon, and start again. So unless I hear otherwise, I'm going to assume I'm free to quote you on that next moniker. :hihi:


The moniker is yours to use at will. Just happy to be able to contribute.


----------



## Nightshop

Best of wishes to this new tank, Steve!

I'm digging it all ready!


----------



## Sietch31

Hi Steve,

I have not logged in for a few months (lot of work, others projects, bla, bla, bla...). So I am coming in tonight, first thing was to look for your thread for an update on the Kahuna and....this news....:icon_eek: :icon_eek: :icon_eek: 

I am very sorry for you, and admire the way you are dealing with it !
Hats off to your wife, I really apreciated the "I will buy new furniture...." episode :hihi: :hihi: 

I would like to thank you publicly again for sharing ALL your experiences !
This was definitively the ultimate help for me when I built my own tank and your more than well documented threads helped me picking the right silicone glue and the right method for building !

I hope with this help, my tank will last longer than yours, because knowing my "Home Prime Minister", I am not sure I will be allowed to get a new tank in case such an...event will happen here....
(but I am quite sure my budget will have to face the same furniture and carpet renewal issue though :hihi: :hihi: )

I whish I could be able to help you back, hadn't I lived that far away !
I would definitively have offered you my hands to rebuild the Big Clear Kahuna !!!!

By the way, this acrylic tank looks terrific and I will not stay away from here for the next 3 or 4 months to come, as a new exciting adventure is ready to begin !

All the best to you, your family and your fishes !
"See" you soon,

Sietch


----------



## A Hill

Hey Steve, been off for a while but am getting back and came to see updates:hihi: .

Tank looks amazing! bigger brace than I thought originally but not that big of a deal... 

Let me know when you're going to be needing some help. Depending on the crazy schedule of mine (and probably everyone else is in the same boat) come and help. 

-Andrew

Oh, PS. Bet someone $10 Steve leaks SOMETHING in this thread that he doesn't intend to, of course from this post on lol..


----------



## JenThePlantGeek

Careful Andrew - any mention of unintended leaks might make Steve cringe.


----------



## scolley

bharada said:


> The moniker is yours to use at will. Just happy to be able to contribute.


Thanks Bill. Just may do that!



Nightshop said:


> Best of wishes to this new tank, Steve!
> 
> I'm digging it all ready!


Thanks a mil!




Sietch31 said:


> Hats off to your wife, I really apreciated the "I will buy new furniture...." episode :hihi: :hihi:


Thanks Seitch! I hope all is going well on YOUR tank adenture! Better than mine I trust!

And sharing this stuff is fun. But it does get time consuming every once in a while. And that furniture episode... well all I can say is, you can't make that stuff up. Sometime life is a LOT funnier than fiction!



Fish Newb said:


> Tank looks amazing! bigger brace than I thought originally but not that big of a deal... Oh, PS. Bet someone $10 Steve leaks SOMETHING in this thread that he doesn't intend to, of course from this post on lol..


Thanks Andrew. And I appreciate your candor about the size of the brace. Odds are lots of other people have been thinking the same thing.

Frankly, it is bigger than I had hoped. But it was the smallest I could get, from a fabricator that I had confidence in. I had other vendors (one BIG one in particular) say they would make it smaller for me. But my research led me to the conclusion that smaller was a risk, and that it might get stress cracks over time. So I went with this tank. Big rim and all.

I'll give you a yell if I need help. Won't be for a while though. Thanks for the offer.

And as for "leaks", I already have buddy. It's out there. You just don't know where to look. :hihi: 



JenThePlantGeek said:


> Careful Andrew - any mention of unintended leaks might make Steve cringe.


Dearest Jen, PLEASE feel free to interject humor into ANY of my threads at ANY time. Thanks! We don't get enough of it! :icon_lol:

*
TANK UPDATE*
I haven't been updating you because there's nothing to say really. I've ordered a stand, don't have it yet though. And will have to sand, stain, and varnish it too. Bummer. Lots of work and delay associated with that.

The tank is on its way to me now. Will arrive soon.

And the plumbing... OMG! I've bitten off more than I can chew this time! I'm in plumbing hell. I've set some design objectives for myself that I'm having a real tough time fulfilling. And because it is so elaborate, I'm not waiting on the stand. I've marked off the size of the inside frame of the stand on the floor, and am building all the plumbing now. And having a HARD time getting it all to fit!

I plan on water testing the plumbing BEFORE the stand is built. Then when the stand is built, I'll disassemble the pluming and install it in the stand.

Can you imagine? Not being able to get your stuff into a stand for a 6"x2" tank? Shamefull and excessive really... :icon_wink 

But I'll get there in a few weeks. I hope.


----------



## ianiwane

That is one nice tank Scolley. Gen is actually a friend of my friend. They used to work in the same LFS. He makes some nice stuff.


----------



## scolley

ianiwane said:


> That is one nice tank Scolley. Gen is actually a friend of my friend. They used to work in the same LFS. He makes some nice stuff.


Thanks ianiwane. If birds of a feather stick together, and all that, then you must be pretty OK yourself. Because as far as I can tell at a distance - Gen seems like a GREAT guy. You keep good company! roud:


----------



## scolley

:bounce: They didn't damage it in shipping! Yaaahooo! :hihi: 










PS - That's "Buddy" in the driveway too. If he could, he'd say "Hi!" 'cuz Buddy loves EVERYBODY. And he's happy the tank's here too!


----------



## ianiwane

Nice, can't wait to see it up. When are you planning on setting it up?


----------



## scolley

Not for several weeks I'm afraid...:icon_sad:


----------



## Betowess

All Right, safe and sound! Good to meet the Budster too. Speaking of leaks, I wonder if Buddy has christened the new launch?


----------



## briandmiles

Used to have a Sheltie just like him. Great dogs. Congrats on the new tank looks like it will be loads of fun.

Brian


----------



## A Hill

Soo, Is it still sitting in the driveway or did you move it somewhere more protected...

Any Ducks testing its leaks yet?

-Andrew


----------



## Gonzo8

Steve,
That tank is huge!! I have read your posting of the building of the Kahuna and was pretty inspired by how much trial and error you went through. That must have sucked really bad to have to mop up all of that water when the tank burst. I look forward to reading about your new bohemith. I hope nothing but great success for you and the tennants of that tank.


----------



## uncskainch

Now THAT's a big tank! And a really cute dog, too. Sheltie? 

If you need to leak test it, Buddy could swim laps in that thing! Heck, YOU might be able to!


----------



## scolley

Thanks folks! And no, Buddy has not "christened" the tank! :hihi: Thank goodness.

It's in the garage, along with the stand. The stand is still unassembled, unpainted, unvarnished. My problem is time. And the precidence of things that have to occur.

The room the tank is going in needs a new paint job. My commitment to the wife was to paint the room myself, to defray the cost of the new stuff. Unfortunately the room must be painted BEFORE the tank goes in - for obvious reasons. Once that tank/stand is in - it's IN.

So I've got fish in trash cana, and new furniture (Maureen's Revenge :hihi: ) all covered with drop cloths, and paint everywhere. Interior stuff. Not for the stand. That's next.

My BIG problem is the wife and I are going on a 3 week vacation beginning late June. That's about 6 weeks away. So I'm gonna have to have a fully automated big planted discus tank up and running - ready to be left alone for THREE WEEKS - and I don't even have my stand built yet!!!

Can you sense the panic in my keystrokes? It's there.

At least the plumbing is almost finished. I've got that up and running, and purifying water in a 3rd trash can. It's just got to be disassembled and bolted into the stand (whenever that gets built). There's no fish in that particular trash can as this plumbing has been sized for a 180, the trash can is maybe 30g The water in it is a rapidly swirling vortex! Bad place for a fish.

The good news, for me anyway - and maybe for the community - is that the Kahuna has a new home. Or probably anyway. One of our finer members (IMO) is quite interested, and it we can work out the pick-up details, it'll have a new home soon. I AM happy about that.

But gotta go now... lot's and lot's of stuff needs painting...


----------



## uncskainch

Good luck getting everything done. You may be able to focus on finishing the painting on the wall where the stand will go and on getting the stand stained or painted -- then you could, in theory, get the tank set up and start working on the plumbing while you're still painting walls and doing trim work in the rest of the room.

Do you have an idea for a backup plan if things take longer than planned or something unexpected throws a monkey-wrench in your plans? Is there, for example, someone who could take care of the fish for 3 weeks while you're away and then you could set everything up when you get back? 

I hope it's a great vacation and that you have the chance to get the tank up and running smoothly before you go!

Cheers,
Kathy


----------



## RoseHawke

:hihi: My first instinct was to tell you that you might need to just leave it 'til you get back from vacation. But, on the other hand, you've got those fish in a trash can, and I'm sure they're probably taking much more care like that than they will in the new, automated Kahuna Deux. 

Good luck with that! I know (all too well) how the DIY renovation/painting type stuff goes. By the time you get through with this, you're gonna *need* a vacation Steve!


----------



## scolley

Thanks folks. But there IS NO backup plan I'm afraid. Good reason for that too...

Discus need water changes. And discus crowded into trashcans need frequent water changes.

So while I am gone, I've got someone to toss frozen blood worms into the tank twice a day. But I can't ask them to go through the water changes - not with the python, prime, temperature matching, and all that - every other day. For a non-hobbyist to do this, I risk coming home to dead fish.

And there are significant obstacles to automating water changes in trash cans.

So thanks for the advice, but this has gotta be finished. Soon. Gotta go...


----------



## uncskainch

Yep, multiple water changes are a lot to ask of someone who isn't invested in those particular fish. Good luck getting everything done -- I'm looking forward to seeing the finished product!


----------



## bharada

Steve, if it comes down to it, you may want to consider placing the trash can into a shower stall/bathtub and have a hose run into it running a slow drip. Then either let the water overflow the top or drill a few holes a few inches below the top for the water to drain out.

Have a dosing pump drip a few ml of Prime into the can each day. With a slow drip the heater should have no problem maintaining the water temp.

But I hope you don't have to resort to this kind of setup.

And like Kathy says, you only need the wall that's behind the tank completely finished before you can get the stand and tank installed.


----------



## TigerLilly

I had a 28gal leak all of the water out when we were on vacation. Apparently the power went out when we were away and when it came back on it creating a surdge that primed the airpump to siphon all the water out. The tank was on the 3rd floor. It costs $30,000 in damages. You are DAM lucky you cought this just as it happened.


----------



## fresh_lynny

Best of luck on the acrylic kahuna, Steve. I know you will do it justice. What a sweet tank! xox


----------



## scolley

bharada said:


> Steve, if it comes down to it, you may want to consider placing the trash can into a shower stall/bathtub and have a hose run into it running a slow drip. Then either let the water overflow the top or drill a few holes a few inches below the top for the water to drain out.
> 
> Have a dosing pump drip a few ml of Prime into the can each day. With a slow drip the heater should have no problem maintaining the water temp.


Well, at least I have a "Plan B" now! Thanks Bill!

That's what's great about this community... no matter how well you might think you have things figured out (more of a problem for some of us than others :icon_wink ), frequently someone will step up to help, and make you realize that you _hadn't_ thought of everything. Thank goodness for that!

Thanks for the words of encouragement. I'm pretty sure all will get done in time. I'm more concerned now about the rush schedule impacting photo-documentation. Hopefully not.

I can give you a heads up on the plumbing though - it will offend the purist. When I post it, I will consider replies using the acronym "KISS" to be intentionally hostile posts, and will put them on my Ignore List. :hihi: Just kidding.

PS - The room's painted. Having kids (forced labor) can be great!


----------



## SuRje1976

scolley said:


> I will consider replies using the acronym "KISS" to be intentionally hostile posts, and will put them on my Ignore List. :hihi: Just kidding.


LOL!!! I can't wait to see it!


----------



## unirdna

bharada said:


> Steve, if it comes down to it, you may want to consider placing the trash can into a shower stall/bathtub and have a hose run into it running a slow drip.


First thing that popped in my head, too, Bill. 

Steve, 

I admit, for selfish reasons, I'm glad that you'll be setting the tank up sooner than later.


----------



## scolley

I kinda' hate posting to this thread... since it's a bump to something not worth checking into, since I'm far, far from anything worth reporting. But I've got a question. Two really:


Can someone please tell me if an acrylic tank needs padding under it? That's assuming it is sitting on a piece of wood - roughly equivalent to marine grade plywood.


And if it does, what kind of padding does it need? I'd like to get away with something like a thin spongy mat - kind of like that ADA mats - if I can.

Thanks for the help!


----------



## bharada

Steve,
If the surface you place the tank on is perfectly flat and level then you don't need any pad. I have a 1/2" thick sheet of styrofoam under mine since the above two parameters aren't met by my stand.


----------



## scolley

bharada said:


> Steve,
> If the surface you place the tank on is perfectly flat and level then you don't need any pad. I have a 1/2" thick sheet of styrofoam under mine since the above two parameters aren't met by my stand.


Thanks Bill. But that's kinda why I'm asking... the surface will be level. And it's flat. Question is... how flat is "perfectly" flat. I can move a 3' I beam level across it and not see anything but the tiniest air gaps - like maybe 1 mm in places. And the surface itself is varnished (to water proof it), so it is not perfectly smooth - tiny variations in the surface.

So my problem is, I don't want a pad if I can avoid it. But I don't know how flat "perfectly" flat is.

Thanks.


----------



## BlueRam

I believe you are looking for "fully supported" to describe the tank. Off the top of my head: I would worry if I was able to fit a credit card easily in a gap.



scolley said:


> Can someone please tell me if an acrylic tank needs padding under it? That's assuming it is sitting on a piece of wood - roughly equivalent to marine grade plywood.
> 
> 
> And if it does, what kind of padding does it need? I'd like to get away with something like a thin spongy mat - kind of like that ADA mats - if I can.
> 
> Thanks for the help!


----------



## scolley

BlueRam said:


> I believe you are looking for "fully supported" to describe the tank. Off the top of my head: I would worry if I was able to fit a credit card easily in a gap.


Cool. That's what I was looking for. Not what I wanted to hear, but what I needed to hear.

I can't get a credit card into a gap. But I could get something half the thickness of a credit card (I mean the edge - not the embossed part!) into a gap. So maybe I've got to find a mat.

Sounds like this doesn't take much though... like a thin rubbery mat might do?


----------



## RoseHawke

Depending on how much you're willing to spend, maybe a mat of neoprene?

http://www.foamorder.com/neoprene.html

And it comes in colors :hihi: !


----------



## boink

maybe try a yoga/excercise mat? might be an inexpensive alternative


----------



## BlueRam

scolley said:


> Cool. That's what I was looking for. Not what I wanted to hear, but what I needed to hear.
> 
> I can't get a credit card into a gap. But I could get something half the thickness of a credit card (I mean the edge - not the embossed part!) into a gap. So maybe I've got to find a mat.
> 
> Sounds like this doesn't take much though... like a thin rubbery mat might do?



Keep in mind that the tank is empty and the plywood has a lot of give once some weight is added. (ie plywood as mat) Call your tank builder?


----------



## scolley

*Cindy *- Thanks! Actually that is a close to the ADA stuff as I'm gonna easily find. I'm not hung up on ADA. But I do like how the thin black mats look. This looks like a great (if spendy!) alternative.

*boink *- And I'll definitely try that before I spring for the expensive stuff. I remember a store nearby that sells yoga mats! Thanks.

But...

*BlueRam *- I'll definitely start there. The tank will be resting on 3/4" plywood. So there may indeed be a LOT of give in that. But I'll give good ole Gen Watanabe of Critter Products a call first. Nothing like going to the source! Thanks.


All this really demonstrates is that I am indeed relatively new to the hobby. I mean get real! How much experience can someone have if they don't even know how to set up an acrylic tank properly! :icon_redf


----------



## Betowess

Steve, if you put a nice trim of hardwood around the base of say 3.5" x x1/2" or whatever your flavor, good old 1" pink construction foam will let you rest very easy at night. Home Depot or Lowes... The wood trim can serve to hide a few inches of substrate and the foam.


----------



## BlueRam

I think it is the other way as you are paying attention to detail. See the handy guide below:

Newbie: set up an acrylic tank.

Old Salt: set up an acrylic tank properly.



scolley said:


> All this really demonstrates is that I am indeed relatively new to the hobby. I mean get real! How much experience can someone have if they don't even know how to set up an acrylic tank properly! :icon_redf


----------



## scolley

*Betowess *- Thanks Bob. Your advice is solid, but I have a piece of trim that came with the stand. I just haven't attached it yet. I'm toying with the idea of leaving it off, with the tank resting on something like Cindy's (and boink's) suggestion of a thin mat - kind of the ADA look.

But also, I've got eight (yes 8!) bulkhead holes in the bottom of this tank. And drilling those holes in foam is just a plain PITA. Done it before, and I know I'd love to avoid it again if I can.

If the tank maker says I can rest it on wood, I may just do that. That is, if I decide to put the trim up. If I don't use the trim, I'm gonna get a nice thin mat - if for no other reason that IMO it looks nice.

*BlueRam *- Thanks for the humorous sentiment. One can only try...


PS - Stand is built... plumbing and electrical are starting to be mounted this weekend. But just to manage a bit of potential disappointment. I will NOT be taking detail "as you go" type pics. I'd love to do that. But my time constraints (finishing before I have to leave for three weeks straight) are leaving no time for that. It's all dead serious, get it done as fast as you reasonably can type effort now. Sorry. Really.


----------



## Hop

scolley said:


> :bounce: They didn't damage it in shipping! Yaaahooo! :hihi:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PS - That's "Buddy" in the driveway too. If he could, he'd say "Hi!" 'cuz Buddy loves EVERYBODY. And he's happy the tank's here too!


Hey! Looks good bud! Welcome to the world of bigger tanks I'll try to swing by a little more often and check the progress!


----------



## bharada

scolley said:


> But also, I've got eight (yes 8!) bulkhead holes in the bottom of this tank. And drilling those holes in foam is just a plain PITA. Done it before, and I know I'd love to avoid it again if I can.


If you do have to go this route I would suggest you use a stiff piece of wire (wire coat hanger works well) and a propane torch as your cutting implement. Just heat the wire until it's red hot and it'll cleanly cut through the styrofoam like it was butter, without leaving a "snow storm" of foam particles behind.

Just do the cutting in a well ventillated area.


----------



## scolley

bharada said:


> ...Just heat the wire until it's red hot and it'll cleanly cut through the styrofoam like it was butter, without leaving a "snow storm" of foam particles behind.


Thank Bill! I didn't know that, and you clearly understand the "PITA" I was referring to. Your method sounds a lot cleaner, and a lot neater, than what I did for the BCK with an Exacto knife. What a mess! And looked like crap too. 

Did not want to repeat that with this tank. I'm doing every thing I can to do it RIGHT. No corners cut. Or crappy, jagged edges on styrofoam either. You get the idea I'm sure... I want this tank to be done _right_.

Thanks.


*Hop *- Long time no see buddy! I ain't there yet, but I still have you to thank for putting me on to AquaControllers a long time ago. They are QUITE expensive, but boy-oh-boy, worth every penny if you can afford one. Thanks!


----------



## kzr750r1

To make the bulk head holes clean on the mat take some metal conduit or pipe and sharpen the end with file or grinder. Heat with propane or mat gas torch, Press and lift squarely as possible at the bulk head location.

Edit:
If you want to go to the extreme a hole saw heated would do the same thing.


----------



## lumpyfunk

Steve,

I have a large mat of the blue static reducing pad used in assembling computers just sitting in my garage. I don't know if it will work for you but I will look at it in more detail if you like.


----------



## awrieger

DIY electric hot wire tool

I'd imagine you'd feed the wire through a small hole first then attach it before turning it on to cut the larger hole out.


----------



## scolley

Thanks for the great tips on making a clean mat. I'm really getting kind of anal on how I do stuff on this tank/stand, so I'm not cutting ANY corners. Honest to gosh... not one to this point. Granted, gold plated is always more impressive. But I'm not throwing money away. It's just that in every case where I've looked at something and said "I should have really used an XXX part... ", I've stopped work until I had ordered and installed an XXX.

So having a nice looking mat would be important. And thanks for the offer Lump!

But I called the tank maker, and he says no mat required! A piece of level varnished plywood will be fine. Cool. Since I've decided to put up the stand top-trim, not mat will be required. Not for cosmetics, not for safety.

Thanks for the help though!

PS - I'm in crunch mode now. Every possible spare minute is spend slapping this stand together... time is running out!


----------



## BlueRam

scolley said:


> But I'm not throwing money away. It's just that in every case where I've looked at something and said "I should have really used an XXX part... ", I've stopped work until I had ordered and installed an XXX.


hide or toss EVERY magnetic algae cleaner, scraper or anything that is glass only. I know of at least 2 tanks where well intentioned fish sitters found a magnetic scraper and cleaned the gunk at the substrate line...


----------



## original kuhli

I'm laughing as I read through your thread...I too have an unfinished stand, a room that needs to be painted, and refugees at my house awaiting a new home. Oh, and summer holidays among other things to do.

The only good news is that a long weekend of bad weather has me close to being able to at least finish the stand. Then onto the bags of plumbing parts I've yet to assemble so that I can stuff...too much stuff below my 83 gallon!

Funny how it goes.


----------



## cbennett

BlueRam is absolutely right, get rid of any magnetic wiper thingies I terribly scratched my old acrylic tank by accidentally getting a snail and then a piece of flourite trapped in it. :angryfire Also, be super careful with even the "acrylic safe" algae scrubby pads and NEVER use the hard plastic "acrylic safe" scrapers. The hard plastic ones can scratch the acrylic if you accidentally tilt it so the corner digs in and some of the scrubbies are scratchier than they should be.


----------



## JenThePlantGeek

Steve won't need 'em. If you never get any algae, you'll never need to scrape it, right Steve? :hihi:


----------



## scolley

JenThePlantGeek said:


> Steve won't need 'em. If you never get any algae, you'll never need to scrape it, right Steve? :hihi:


:hihi: Don't I wish!

Truth be told, that's great advice about the scrapers! I may not be planning on a whole lot of scraping... but anything can happen. Hard scrapin' is how I busted the Kahuna! I wasn't planning on it, but it happened.

So I'll definitely be doing a major scraper overhaul based on this good tip! :icon_wink


----------



## BlueRam

scolley said:


> So I'll definitely be doing a major scraper overhaul based on this good tip! :icon_wink


Your plastic tank will get a lot of unsightly deposits (hardwaterish spots?) on the top and bottom of the roof. Make sure that you have a method or removing these deposits quickly and regularly without any risk of damaging the surfaces.

There is absolutely no shame in running the filter system through standard ehime returns if the full bulkhead solution is not finished. (provided the auto WC does not interfere)


----------



## cbennett

simply wiping the hard water deposits with a sponge soaked with distilled water works pretty well - as long as you do it on a regular basis.


----------



## scolley

*Exlpoding return line!!!*

Last night I was breaking down a trashcan's plumbing (Yes! You know what that means!) It was about 1 AM, fortunately my wife was asleep, when suddenly... POP!  I was drenched in HOT water!

Whaaaa the... ?!?!?!? Whoa!


After I calmed down, assessed the fact that I was undamaged (if soaking wet and nearly scalded), and the fact that the "explosion" had not sent any shrapnel into furniture or anything, and that while I was standing in a puddle of water - which itself was under a power strip and a rat's nest of wires... everything seemed to be cool. 

So I shut off the power and surveyed the damage.

I had an Eheim Classic, whose outflow went into a Hydor heater, that then went into the trash can. The connection between the Classic outflow and the hose to the Hydor had given way. Given way with a great deal of energy. And heat.

The noise was so LOUD when it popped, I was shocked to see that the tubing has merely separated from the classic. I assumed it had ruptured.

I've got a ball valve infront of the Classic inflow. And one on the outflow side of the Hydor. This protects the siphon when doing trash can water changes.

I had recently unplugged the Classic (I think). I was in the process of tearing the trash can down (plumbing and all) and as I recall I didn't want either line to siphon water out of the trash can -so the two ball valves were shut. The Hydor I left plugged in. Lazy sure... I assumed when the water in it got hot enough, its internal thermostat would shut it off.

So I'm not sure what happened. If anyone has any ideas, I'm all ears. Getting soaked with hot water, at 1 AM, and risking getting electrocuted (no - the trash can was not on a GFI circuit - stupid me), was a new, unwelcome, and surprising experience. Now I'd like to learn from it.

What happened? :redface:

Thanks. 



PS - Thanks for the advice on removing the hardwater deposits.

PPS - All future plumbing, even temporary, will have a GFI circuit in-line.


----------



## SCMurphy

Seltzer water dissolves deposits.


----------



## Betowess

Did it just pop off, as in slide off? Maybe you didn't have it clamped down tight enough. I usually use SS hose clamps on everything, except my 2128s.  

Glad alls OK. Must be getting close! :smile:


----------



## JFalcon

scolley said:


> I've got a ball valve infront of the Classic inflow. And one on the outflow side of the Hydor. This protects the siphon when doing trash can water changes.
> 
> I had recently unplugged the Classic (I think). I was in the process of tearing the trash can down (plumbing and all) and as I recall I didn't want either line to siphon water out of the trash can -so the two ball valves were shut. The Hydor I left plugged in. Lazy sure... I assumed when the water in it got hot enough, its internal thermostat would shut it off.
> 
> So I'm not sure what happened. If anyone has any ideas, I'm all ears. Getting soaked with hot water, at 1 AM, and risking getting electrocuted (no - the trash can was not on a GFI circuit - stupid me), was a new, unwelcome, and surprising experience. Now I'd like to learn from it.


My only guess is that the heater DIDN'T shut off. Or if it did, there was still enough thermal energy still in the element to continue heating the water for a bit.

Seems like you had an enclosed volume of water (trapped between the two ball valves) that you were heating. Heating water causes it to expand; converting it to steam if you try hard enough. It built up pressure.

I think that your then moving the hoses about was enough to cause the stressed section to (violently) pull off the weakest point -- one of the barbs between the Classic and Hydor. Thus the pop and the bath :biggrin:

At least, that's my theory and I'm sticking with it. :icon_smil I'd check the thermostat on that Hydor...


----------



## scolley

This was NOT a slide off of a tube. This was a VIOLENT, RESOUNDING, LOUD, BANG! Water went everywhere. Not over a few seconds, but in a split second! This was your basic violent rupture.

I had not touched the plumbing AT ALL, except to turn off the ball valves, and unplug the Eheim Classic. And that was 15-20 minutes prior to the explosion.

Between the shutting off of the valves, and unplugging the Eheim, I had been netting fish out of a DIFFERENT trash can (I had two with fish in them!) when it went bang. I was NOT my bumping plumbing. I was nowhere near the freaking plumbing. Well, 4 feet away anyway...

Could be the thermostat. But if so, why weren't my fish cooked? I don't buy the idea that the thermostat decided to fail just as I was netting fish.


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## sayn3ver

alittle out of sync compared to the rest of the recent comments(i'm kinda off topic), but nice to see you went with a big acrylic. I think its a good choice and i know you know it was for your situation.


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## slickwillislim

Maybe the 300w heater heated the water faster than the sensor could shut it off and by the time it did (I assume the light was off when you looked at before your unplugged it. If you didn't then there is no way to tell, my hydor failed once and worked fine for a few more days of me watching it while I waited for a replacement.)Then the left over energy was enough to expand the water in between the two ball valves to cause the failure. I can't really picture your plumbing setup that well in my head so I am probably way off. 

My hydor failed and heated my 60g tank well in to the 90's a few months back so thermostat failure is still a possibility though not likely.


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## nellis

When I bought mine, the manager of the fish place told me that the hydors have a tendency to fail-on. That said, I've still not heard first hand experience of that happening. Have you tried plugging it back in to see if you can manually turn it off by cranking down the thermostat?


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## BlueRam

scolley said:


> This was NOT a slide off of a tube. This was a VIOLENT, RESOUNDING, LOUD, BANG! Water went everywhere. Not over a few seconds, but in a split second! This was your basic violent rupture.


I do this quite often in the other failure mode; 

Durring a waterchange and hear a slight sizzle... 
Oh no! the heater is out of the water and heating up wildly! 
If I dunk it in the water it will cool down.!.!

And thus I learned the value of Ebo's well below the water level.

Sounds like you 300W heater was going at 100% just at the very moment you shut off both sides. Just a little expansion (gases out of solution, steam) and you get exactly the events you describe.

All is well and the laws of physics are conserved. Please post a picture before you take off.


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## BlueRam

I think Steve's computer can be used to shut power to the heater if a set point is exceed. Another nice feature.



nellis said:


> When I bought mine, the manager of the fish place told me that the hydors have a tendency to fail-on. That said, I've still not heard first hand experience of that happening. Have you tried plugging it back in to see if you can manually turn it off by cranking down the thermostat?


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## alexandre

Hi, Steve sorry for your latest problem.
The only thing I can say is the Hydor external heater are not reliable. I got through 2 in one year and for the moment I live in Cyprus. Meaning they only work about five to six month a year.:icon_roll

PS: Looking for to your next journal.


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## scolley

Thanks for the help folks. It does indeed appear that the thing was on when I shut trapped the water in the lines by shutting the ball valves. I'm too busy to take a picture (new tank's got me hopping!) but the outflow tube that is molded to the Eheim classic appears to be melted. I assume it used to be round. It certainly is not now.

Like I said... that water was hot!

Anybody want a used Hydor? Or an Eheim classic with interesting outflow characteristics?


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## scolley

OK - new thread.

Please go here... http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/photo-album/47667-son-kahuna.html#post424499


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## scolley

blueguppygirl said:


> My heart broke when I first started reading this.


I hate to think I upset someone so much with this little set back. But all's better now... I've got the Son of Kahuna up and running.

And even better, the Big Clear Kahuna has moved on to a new home! Come check it out!


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## bastalker

Steve ....Glad ya got everything in order!

Sorry for not bein able ta give ya a hand!! Just pretty much all out at the moment..:icon_mrgr You know the deal!

Cant wait ta see the next one!

Stand by though, I am gonna plant my 75G in short order, an move my 6 into it.roud: 

TC my friend
Mark


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## standoyo

I love that you tell it well. I'm pretty depressed. Silly me. [until I read the other thread!]


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## monkeyruler90

as always steve, you always seem to impress me
i loveeee your threads
they make me want a bigger tank!!


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## leoslizards

Hmm.. This was a DIY tank correct? Are you planning on rebuilding it? It's been over a year since the thread started, I would like to see some update pics!


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## Gatekeeper

He sold the tank folks. Look at his final post and the links.


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## leoslizards

gmccreedy said:


> He sold the tank folks. Look at his final post and the links.


Ahh thanks. I should have reread the old posts.


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