# What substrate are kids using these days?



## Sean W. (Oct 12, 2013)

Hey guys,

Ive been out of the hobby for a couple years, looking to get back into it with a 75 gallon hightech tank.

I was just wondering what a good solution for substrate is these days. Not looking to go dirted. I have noticed that since my departure, Tropica products are now available in the states, I am very excited about this! I always wanted to get my hands on their products, but was never able to.

In all of tropica's " inspiration " layout videos, they simply use their " Plant Growth Substrate " capped with inert aquarium gravel and they seem to have nothing but incredible results with this method.

Like I mentioned this is going to be a hightech 75 gallon, so which ever route I go with I would like to keep cost in mind, 70+lbs of some ridiculously expensive ADA substrate is not a viable solution for me. 

The plant that is probably going to have the biggest impact on the substrate I decide to go with is probably DHG Belem, which will be the main carpeting plant.

Looking forward to any input!

Thanks!


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## IntotheWRX (May 13, 2016)

Sean W. said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Ive been out of the hobby for a couple years, looking to get back into it with a 75 gallon hightech tank.
> 
> ...


ADA for the rich. Eco complete for the masses. dirted for the dirt poor.

you can take it up a new level and do multiple different layers. clay on bottom. rocks/dirt whatever in middle and top it off with ADA.


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## Sean W. (Oct 12, 2013)

IntotheWRX said:


> ADA for the rich. Eco complete for the masses. dirted for the dirt poor.


Still Eco Complete eh?


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## IntotheWRX (May 13, 2016)

Sean W. said:


> Still Eco Complete eh?


new age style is layering cheap stuff on bottom and top it off with ADA on top.


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## PortalMasteryRy (Oct 16, 2012)

Black Blasting sand if you have a steady or tried and tested fert routine or if you use a dosing pump <- cheap and creates a nice contrast with all the colorful plants =)


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## York1 (Dec 18, 2014)

Just switched to black diamond blasting sand. I will never go back to commercial substrates


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## pucksr (Jan 27, 2011)

For the purposes of this thread, black diamond blasting sand=sand/inert

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## Sean W. (Oct 12, 2013)

pucksr said:


> For the purposes of this thread, black diamond blasting sand=sand/inert
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


Thats what I figured. Sounds like a missed opportunity, having zero nutrients in the substrate, relying on the water column to give the plants the nutrients they need.


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## York1 (Dec 18, 2014)

Sean W. said:


> Thats what I figured. Sounds like a missed opportunity, having zero nutrients in the substrate, relying on the water column to give the plants the nutrients they need.


Thats what root tabs are for


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## IntotheWRX (May 13, 2016)

York1 said:


> Thats what root tabs are for


i like your prof pic of the little ronald.


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## Clinton Parsons (Apr 11, 2016)

There is the Cal Aqua soil that I would have liked to try, but could never find it anywhere. It looks heavier and cleaner. There is also a new substrate from Seachem but my LFS only sold it in tiny small bags. I ended up just buying 5 x 9 liter bags of Amazonia and shipping cross country... 


If companies want to sell new soils, they sure make them hard to access.... If you can find those, give them a try. They look better, to me.

PS: There is a LOT more sand/gravel particles in Amazonia then there used to be, and maybe it's just be but it seems like it falls apart easier than it did years ago.....


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## waterbearr (Sep 26, 2016)

Most kids are still using painted gravel these days. Not much has changed on that side of the hobby in the past 10 years however I think planted tank enthusiasts(which are usually adults) prefer to use an aquasoil or gravel capped dirt.

all smartassery aside,

I think even the tropica plant growth substrate might still be quite an expensive option. It seems to be more expensive than tropicas aquasoil, at least in the 3kg bag size. Then again, you won't need as much as you would going straight aquasoil. Maybe laterite or another iron rich clay based product? Flourite and some osmocote plus?


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Sean W. said:


> Thats what I figured. Sounds like a missed opportunity, having zero nutrients in the substrate, relying on the water column to give the plants the nutrients they need.


Works just fine..


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## Sean W. (Oct 12, 2013)

Nlewis said:


> Works just fine..


:surprise:


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## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

Big A'ls has Tropica substrate for 24.99 per 3 kg bag. AS is 39.99 per 9 liter bag.


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## waterbearr (Sep 26, 2016)

Jeff5614 said:


> Big A'ls has Tropica substrate for 24.99 per 3 kg bag. AS is 39.99 per 9 liter bag.



Yes exactly my point. More expensive than the aquasoil, but less will be used. I haven't seen any 9kg bags of it on BigA Canada but they do sell the 9kg bags of their aquasoil. I just bought one a week ago.


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## abrooks12376 (Nov 5, 2015)

Well...there is always brightwell.. Works pretty good for me.. 

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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

You could do the math, but I would get the substrate you want the most. You really don't change substrate that much and any of them will probably be in your tank for years so the cost difference really isn't that much over that stretch of time. It should be noted that whether you use aquasoil or inert sand you will eventually be dosing the water column.


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## GUPPYGANKER (Oct 6, 2016)

I want someone to be the guinea pig for the substrate they sell at aquariumplants .com. 79.99 for a 5gallon bucket if I recall. Also comes in smaller quantities.


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## Sean W. (Oct 12, 2013)

Think I might do a shot gun technique. 

something like this, top to bottom

Plants
ADA Amazonia
Eco complete
Caribsea Floramax
Tropica substrate
Laterite



That oughta do it...


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## huhu89151734 (Jun 29, 2010)

Hey! I think I recognize your avatar! Now back to the topic... 

Oh hell no! Once you start pulling and replanting those plants, those layers you have created will all get messed up and eventually mix together. Less is more, the most I would do is ADA top and Eco complete bottom, but then if you go that far... you probably won't care for the extra $20bucks to go all out hah....


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## Sean W. (Oct 12, 2013)

probably saw my Avatar from my youtube Channel


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## huhu89151734 (Jun 29, 2010)

Hey! I think I recognize your avatar! Now back to the topic... 

Oh hell no! Once you start pulling and replanting those plants, those layers you have created will all get messed up and eventually mix together. Less is more, the most I would do is ADA top and Eco complete bottom, but then if you go that far... you probably won't care for the extra $20bucks to go all out hah....


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## rewsemail (Oct 15, 2016)

Setting up a 55 may have to give the dirt, black diamond sand a try adding a few clay balls throughout the tank

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## plantsrockmysocks (Sep 21, 2016)

I was pretty active on these boards years ago and had multiple tanks, all with ADA AS. Since it's soil balls anyways, within a few years the substrate "melted" into dirt.

For the past year, I've been running a dirted tank with a black diamond blasting sand cap, pressurized CO2, and EI dosing. Grows plants as well as ADA AS.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Strange no one has mentioned SafeTSorb yet.
80 lbs. @ Tractor Supply about $14 would do a 75 with a little more than 2" depth.


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

GUPPYGANKER said:


> I want someone to be the guinea pig for the substrate they sell at aquariumplants .com. 79.99 for a 5gallon bucket if I recall. Also comes in smaller quantities.


I bought a bucket of it when it first came out. I did some testing and it looked and acted like Soilmaster Select. Biggest difference was that Soilmaster Select was around $15/50lb bag at the time.

I have two tanks, a 125g with coarse quartz sand and a 120 with Turface Pro League. With HO T5 lights and injected CO2 I could grow anything that could handle my 15+ dH water hardness. 

In a 20g tank I setup with Aquasoil its initial buffering capacity allowed me to grow a lot of softwater plants. But the softening only lasted a few months at which point the softwater-loving plants stunted/melted.


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## Sean W. (Oct 12, 2013)

Alright guys, so I got a great deal on 2 large bags of ADA Amazonia. That is not nearly enough to cover the whole thing, but it should make for a nice cap.

Now, what should I use as the bottom? I need about 40 more pounds of something to put under the Amazonia...

I was thinking about using Caribsea Floramax, it seems pretty good and is cheap... Maybe that laced with some osmocoat plus root tabs, then capped with the amazonia?

Thoughts?


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## sevendust111 (Jul 15, 2014)

Sean W. said:


> Alright guys, so I got a great deal on 2 large bags of ADA Amazonia. That is not nearly enough to cover the whole thing, but it should make for a nice cap.
> 
> Now, what should I use as the bottom? I need about 40 more pounds of something to put under the Amazonia...
> 
> ...


I dig that 20 long you used to have. It was part of my inspiration for the 20 long I started two summers ago.

Regarding, floramax...it's insanely light. Is is probably going to rise above your aquasoil. I never used aquasoil, but I much prefer fluorite to floramax.


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## Sean W. (Oct 12, 2013)

sevendust111 said:


> I dig that 20 long you used to have. It was part of my inspiration for the 20 long I started two summers ago.
> 
> Regarding, floramax...it's insanely light. Is is probably going to rise above your aquasoil. I never used aquasoil, but I much prefer fluorite to floramax.


Glad you liked it 

Im really excited for this 75


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

For what it's worth, I've been pretty happy with a mix of Eco-Complete/Aqua Soil in my 120 for going on 6 years. 

The nice part is that once the aquasoil starts to break down and turn to mud, it's easy enough to rinse it out of the eco-complete so you can start the whole process over with only having to by AS again. In 6 years I've done that once, just for context. 

And as others have said, even if you layer it, eventually it'll all mix, but it striates. Courser stuff on top, finer stuff on bottom. This is catalyzed by MTS if you have them. AS and EC mix well and look nice, but after many years of MTS turning the soil, the AS breaks down and ends up on bottom, and the Eco rises to the top.


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## klibs (May 1, 2014)

black diamond all day. I used like 4x 50lb bags in my 75g. $40 and a few hours of rinsing and you're good to go.


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## MtAnimals (May 17, 2015)

Sean W. said:


> Alright guys, so I got a great deal on 2 large bags of ADA Amazonia. That is not nearly enough to cover the whole thing, but it should make for a nice cap.
> 
> Now, what should I use as the bottom? I need about 40 more pounds of something to put under the Amazonia...
> 
> ...


I was going to say,the only thing I found worse than eco complete to hold plants is floramax.The stuff almost floats.


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## Irishirie (Nov 6, 2016)

I've had my 135 set up now for 2 months.
Pressurized CO2, liquid fertilizers (seachem flourish line) and 
2 dual 36" t5 HO 10 hrs on/14 hrs off.

100% Eco-Complete substrate. It's been a pain to get plant to 'hold' in the substrate prior to establishing root systems, but patience pays off. 

I just added the S. Repens and L. Cardinals last week. Only had a few uproot and have replanted since. 

Micro swords have proven difficult in the least, but DHG seems to do well with it.


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## Patriot (Dec 22, 2010)

I have yet to find natural dark gravel like what was available in Korea.


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## barakainus (May 15, 2009)

I use Turface Pro League Heritage Red and Brown in about 10 tanks now. Some plain, some with ADA AS or dirt underneath. It all works great. For $18 for 50lb, it cannot be matched. And especially the brown is a pretty color; very natural.


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## thanatopsian (Dec 11, 2016)

For what it is worth, I pick an inert substrate I like and use it to build a wall around the edge of the aquarium bottom, then add black gold compost 1 inch deep in the middle and cover that with my inert substrate. So far I've done 4 tanks 10g and under like this and the results were great! No dosing needed, just balanced light and diy CO2.












These are some picks of my first tank in the hobby. I'll take some of the rescape I did on this 10 gal tank (dirt also). It's still filling in so I have taken pics yet. 

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## Cremepuff (Dec 14, 2016)

I really wanted to use the ADA amazonia soil but given that my 20 long is my first planted tank, I didn't want to have an expensive set up incase it turns out I'm horrible at the whole thing lol. I decided to go with black flourite and going to add root tabs. I'll get back to you as to how well it works :grin2


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## timwag2001 (Jul 3, 2009)

Kinda surprised that flourite isnt being used as much anymore.


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## Aechele (Mar 11, 2016)

I was just thinking that. I have two tanks. One tank has Flourite and the other EcoComplete. WhIle the Flourite was a dusty mess at first, it's been a great substrate. The tank with the EcoComplete has been a nonstop pain in the necrate. It's so light the plants are popping up every time I turn around


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## MtAnimals (May 17, 2015)

I think in the future I'll be using MGOCPM and BDBS.I just set up my first dirt tank this way,and everything I put in is thriving.The last tank I used ECO in is struggling,makes me want to redo it this way.Plus,total cost was less than one bag of eco,and I have lots leftover.

Just a thought.


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## timwag2001 (Jul 3, 2009)

Mgocpm?


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## Sean W. (Oct 12, 2013)

timwag2001 said:


> Mgocpm?


Miracle grow organic something potting mix


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

Freshly dug river sand, it comes nearly pre-rinsed  and free


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## Sean W. (Oct 12, 2013)

Nordic said:


> Freshly dug river sand, it comes nearly pre-rinsed  and free


It's also illegal


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

Everything is illegal in California, I sometimes think it is used as a testbed for just how much government interference people will tolerate.


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## Carpathian (Dec 23, 2016)

9 black diamond(2 of them dirted with ada) & one bare bottom


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