# ADA Mini-M & Mini-L Iwagumi (updated July 14th)



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Hello everyone,

I'm in the process of starting a pair of new ADA Mini nanos so I thought I'd create a journal to share my experience and get advice. Here are the specs for the tank:

Mini-L

*Light*: Archaea 36W CF clip-on
*Filter*: Eheim 2213
*Heater*: Hydor ETH 200 in-line
*CO2*: Archaea regulator with paintball adapter (used with Sera Aktiv reactor)
*Substrate*: ADA Aquasoil Amazonia Normal & Powder
*Stone*: ADA Ryuoh
*Flora*: Hemianthus callitrichoides and Eleocharis acicularis
*Fauna*: Boraras merah, corydoras pygmaeus, CRS


Mini-M

*Light*: ADA Solar Mini-M
*Filter*: Eheim 2211
*Heater*: Hydor ETH 201 in-line
*CO2*: Fluval CO2 88 system (discussed here)
*Substrate*: ADA Aquasoil Amazonia Normal & Powder
*Stone*: ADA Ohko
*Flora*: Utricularia graminifolia
*Fauna*: CPDs and CBS

Here are the images:

Mini-L tank









Aquasoil substrate









ADA Ryuoh stones (15 lbs)









Eheim 2213 canister









CO2 equipment









HC









Archaea light on Mini-L









Hardscape in Mini-M









Closeup of ohko stones









To be continued...


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Currently, the Mini-L is in its second week of the dry start. All of the plantlets are alive, but nearly all of the previously submerged leaves have melted and new smaller, brighter green leaves have appeared. The dwarf hairgrass is doing great. There's no browning of the leaves at all. There's a lot of new growth and it's sending runners that are popping up new plants. I'm planning on adding a clear plastic divider to keep it contained.

I'm misting the substrate with water and Excel+Flourish once a day. The top is covered with saran wrap (with holes).










For the Mini-M, I had UG growing emmersed for about a week while I was waiting for the supplies to come in. I planted it yesterday. It was a looooooonnnnngggg and extremely tedious process. I wanted the UG to fill in faster so I separated all the blades and planted each individually.










Comments and suggestions are always appreciated.


----------



## tetrabettaguy97 (Oct 3, 2010)

Very cool tank setups. This must have cost a fortune!


----------



## GitMoe (Aug 30, 2010)

Good start. Do it right from the beginning. Interested to start hearing feedback on the new Fluval Co2 system...


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

tetrabettaguy97 said:


> Very cool tank setups. This must have cost a fortune!


Unfortunately, it did. :icon_eek: 

The tanks are worth the price, IMO. The only thing I didn't like was the shipping cost for everything cost a fortune.




GitMoe said:


> Good start. Do it right from the beginning. Interested to start hearing feedback on the new Fluval Co2 system...


Sure. I'll post a review of the CO2 kit as soon as I get it running. The UG dry start just started so it'll be a month or so before I flood the tank.


----------



## FlSHRFun (Jun 26, 2010)

Looks like you're off to a great start.
That DHG is gonna' be a pain to trim and pluck if you don't want it invading your HC.


----------



## rrrrramos (Jan 24, 2008)

Those look great, nothing beats a full ADA setup IMO. I'm bummed I sold mine off! 
If I could make a suggestion, dry start the UG for a little longer than a week. I dry started mine back when I had it for about 3 weeks, then filled and was more than happy with how fast it filled and grew in. 
Let me know how you like that Archaea light, I've been considering getting it since I got my Mini-L which I'm still yet to setup haha.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

rrrrramos said:


> Those look great, nothing beats a full ADA setup IMO. I'm bummed I sold mine off!
> If I could make a suggestion, dry start the UG for a little longer than a week. I dry started mine back when I had it for about 3 weeks, then filled and was more than happy with how fast it filled and grew in.
> Let me know how you like that Archaea light, I've been considering getting it since I got my Mini-L which I'm still yet to setup haha.


Thanks! I definitely plan to grow the UG emmersed for at least a month. 

The Archaea light is really bright. I've had to raise it up from the tank by 2 more inches to avoid burning the HC. You should definitely get it. Until ADA comes out with a Solar Mini-L, this is the next best thing IMO.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Mini-L - 3rd week

All the immersed leaves have melted away by now leaving only the newly formed emersed leaves. There's a little bit of yellowing that I'm attributing to the 36W light so I decided to raise the fixture 2" higher. I'm also misting it with water containing Flourish iron. Growth isn't as fast as I was hoping it'll be.











Mini-M - 2nd week

Not much change in the UG plantlets. There's no evidence of melting to be seen, but no new growth either. I'm hoping that it's because the plants are devoting all its energy into developing new roots before new leaves can appear.


----------



## rrrrramos (Jan 24, 2008)

You might consider moving the small rock at the front in the Mini-M up a bit, UG is really good at covering up anything under like 1.5" high, especially in such a small tank.


----------



## zeldar (Jun 24, 2009)

the tanks look great!

where did you pick up that fluval co2 system? I didnt think they had been released yet.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

rrrrramos said:


> You might consider moving the small rock at the front in the Mini-M up a bit, UG is really good at covering up anything under like 1.5" high, especially in such a small tank.


Thanks for the suggestion. That rock was a small piece that broke off from one of the bigger ones during shipping (Ohko stone will crumble if you look at it wrong). I might take it out if it gets completely covered by the UG later on.



zeldar said:


> the tanks look great!
> 
> where did you pick up that fluval co2 system? I didnt think they had been released yet.


Thank you. I bought it from a Canadian e-retailer, but it's available here for a great price (no idea if it's in stock, though).


----------



## Fat Guy (Nov 19, 2003)

Things are looking great. I'm in the process of setting up a mini m as well. Ive wanted to get one of these tanks for the longest time. I'm debating what to put in mine so I'm very curious how the UG turns out. Looking forward to the updates.


----------



## ramsx22 (Nov 6, 2010)

loookiing good keep us update


----------



## beedee (Jul 1, 2010)

nice start, i cant wait to see the progress!


----------



## urples (Nov 15, 2010)

not sure if this is a dumb question, still a newb when it comes to planeted tanks, but is your CO2 hookup and running in the week 3 picture? if so, can you take a picture of the setup, i'm curious in how it looks.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

urples said:


> not sure if this is a dumb question, still a newb when it comes to planeted tanks, but is your CO2 hookup and running in the week 3 picture? if so, can you take a picture of the setup, i'm curious in how it looks.


I don't have any CO2 running right now (not necessary during the dry start), but I've posted some pictures of the Fluval kit installed on the Mini-M here.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Mini-L - 4th week

HC showed some minor growth in the last 7 days, but nothing significant. On the other hand, the DHG is really taking off. There's a ton of new growth on it. It's a good thing I have a plastic divider (beneath the substrate) to help keep it contained. At the rate it's going, I could probably get a full DHG carpet in half the time compared to the HC.



















Mini-M - 3rd week

Lots of new blades starting to emerge from the substrate. I'm guessing the roots have sufficiently developed and are starting to send out new leafy growth. Hopefully there'll be a lot of visible growth in the next few weeks.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Mini-L - 5th week

More lackluster growth from the HC. For the hardscape, I raised the stones higher and added about 1 cm more substrate.



















Mini-M - 4th week

I tweaked the Ohko stones arrangement and raised it up a bit. Not much new UG growth this week.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Mini-L - 6th week



















Mini-M - 5th week


----------



## Senior Shrimpo (Dec 4, 2010)

Hey Tony,
is not having a solenoid on the fluval co2 system that bad? Can't you just plug the system into a timer or just unplug the system?
I really like the ADAs, surprised the hc isn't taking off yet.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Thank you, SS.



Senior Shrimpo said:


> is not having a solenoid on the fluval co2 system that bad? Can't you just plug the system into a timer or just unplug the system?


The solenoid is actually the part that plugs into a timer. The rest of the system is stand-alone.



Senior Shrimpo said:


> I really like the ADAs, surprised the hc isn't taking off yet.


Me too. I can definitely see parts of it that are spreading while the rest haven't done anything significant. I have a feeling it may be due to the sloping substrate leading to dryness in elevated areas. I didn't want to put too much water because I can start to see some green (algae) appearing on the low areas.

I might just flood the whole thing in a few weeks and put CO2 on full blast (no livestock).


----------



## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

Why do you have the 2211 on the Mini-L and the 2213 on the Mini-M? It seems like they should be switched since the Mini-L is the larger tank and the 2213 is the stronger filter:icon_lol:


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

LOL good catch! That was a typo.


----------



## boostfed (Dec 25, 2010)

any updates?


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Missed a week because of business around Christmastime. Here's the latest update...

Mini-L - 8th week

Some parts of the HC is growing really well, but most of it isn't. There's quite a bit of yellowing. I think the uneven slopes are causing some of the higher parts to dry out. I'll give this another week or two and then I'll just flood the tank if things don't improve.



















Mini-M - 7th week

The UG is filling in really well now. Lots of new growth now that the roots had a chance to develop.


----------



## rrrrramos (Jan 24, 2008)

Lookin good! That Mini-M is gonna be ready to fill soon, all rooted and whatnot, it'll explode when you fill it up.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

rrrrramos said:


> Lookin good! That Mini-M is gonna be ready to fill soon, all rooted and whatnot, it'll explode when you fill it up.


Thanks! I'm surprised with the speed that UG is spreading once it's settled in. It'll only be another 2-3 weeks until I flood it.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Mini-L - 9th week

The healthy parts are spreading quickly, but the rest of the HC isn't doing too well. The DHG is almost completely filled in. It's about 3/4 of the height of the tank now. Hopefully it'll reach the surface and bend over. 



















Mini-M - 8th week

More growth. I never thought UG would be the easier plant of the two to dry start.


----------



## Senior Shrimpo (Dec 4, 2010)

Ohko looks amazing, I really like the one in the middle. Does the hc have a fungus or algae or something? Not that experience in dry start method but maybe flooding it would help and cranking up the co2?


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

There's some algae on the substrate, but nothing on the HC itself. Just a lot of yellowing and stunted growth.

I was contemplating flooding it, but parts of it is doing really well so I decided to just wait it out until it spreads to the rest of the tank. I'm trying to avoid a submerged start with HC after reading all the horror stories about the poor root development causing the entire carpet to lift up from the substrate. The DSM is supposed to prevent this by developing a really healthy (deep) root system.


----------



## Fat Guy (Nov 19, 2003)

I wish I had your patience. You must be dying to fill the tanks though?


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Fat Guy said:


> I wish I had your patience. You must be dying to fill the tanks though?


For some reason, I'm not too anxious to fill these tanks. I'm kind of enjoying watching the plants fill in every day at a time. This will all end when I flood the tanks. 

To avoid going into withdrawal, I might take some UG and grow it emersed to sell afterward. Hopefully I can recuperate some of the $$$ I've spent. roud:


----------



## Zareth (Dec 13, 2010)

Yea the dry start is nice. I have my tank on my desk and I look at it fifty times a day wishing it would grow faster. But I'm in no rush to put it under water - I enjoy not having to test anything, worry about co2, fertilize...


----------



## janickg (Dec 2, 2010)

*HC Stunted Growth Emersed*

TLE041, I am currently experiencing the same process as yours with the HC. The fungus/algae portion (where the substrate is more damp than most) seems to be slightly stunted / deathly. I just ordered Flourish Excel and going to mist that on those parts. Would be interested to hear more on your progress with the HC, keep us posted and best of luck.

And yes, I am one of them who prematurely flooded the tank and watched in slow-motion horror as the front portion of my tank lifted and floated away :icon_cry:


----------



## Beijing08 (Oct 13, 2010)

Great job with the UG in the Mini M
Can't wait to see you fill it up with H2O


----------



## canabinoids (Nov 22, 2010)

nice growth progress...loving it...


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Thanks guys!

I'm retracting my statement a bit. Now that I've found a local source for some nice red and black crystal shrimps, I'm getting more anxious to fill these tanks and get some. Hopefully it won't be much longer. *fingers crossed* :icon_bigg


Mini-L - 10th week

Some _slow_ growth by the HC. The DHG just about tripled in size since I put it in there. It's doing so well that I'm considering thinning it out a bit to keep its growth rate more in keeping with the HC. I like the height of it, though.

I've also been adding a few drops of Excel to my spray bottle to keep the surface algae down to a minimum. With all these various slopes, it's hard to keep the same water level throughout. Tilting the tank really helps as well.



















Mini-M - 9th week

The UG is continuing to do well. I adjusted one of the stones slightly, but now there's a small "bald spot" on the right side.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Mini-L - 11th week

I've thinned down the DHG in the background to keep its growth more in line with the HC.



















Mini-M - 10th week

UG is filling in nicely.


----------



## Hussain (Nov 17, 2009)

great progress, waiting for you to fill it up.


----------



## chilled_fire (Jun 4, 2010)

Loved the scape and rocks on both tanks.
just going throught this page and I see its week 11 (is thats correct ?) since you planted HC, something doesnt look right, i got a fantastic growth in just 3 weeks . 
I did cycly the aquasoil before I planted the HC , as the aquasoil has the bad thing about amonia.(not sure if that affects HC) but looks slow.
But Your MINI M is doing great i see


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

I think my problem was with the HC drying out in parts of the tank. The slopes in the substrate made getting a uniform water level impossible, so some of the substrate was submerged under water while others were dry. The plants that had a lot of water grew really well but the elevated plants dried out. I'm sure that if I made the substrate in the entire tank an even level I'd get a full carpet by now. I really like the look of the slopes so I kept it as is.

Since plants need ammonia, AS leeching ammonia is actually a good thing.


----------



## defiant (Dec 1, 2009)

tanks look awesome...

just one thought or advice if you will... when filling the UG tank up i would do it in phases in order to have the best chances of survival. since you waited this long to do the dry start method and let it grow you should fill the tank up slowly.

on the first fill, just fill the tank up before it covers the UG that way you slowly acclimate the plant to its new submersed environment. as the leaves start to grow longer fill the tank up a little more. keep doing the fill just barely covering the UG. I had to do this to one of my tanks because my first UG dry start i filled it up one time and after a couple of days 85% of it melted so all that time dry starting it was wasted. 

again this is just from my personal experience, its up to you how you want to fill it. 


Good luck with the tank i cant wait to see it filled with water. The shrimps will love it. :icon_lol:


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Thanks for the info, defiant. I'll definitely follow your suggestion. I'd probably quit the hobby if the UG melted after all this work. :icon_eek:


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Mini-L - 12th week




















Mini-M - 11th week


----------



## .Mko. (Sep 23, 2010)

great growth and patience =) can't wait to see it submersed


----------



## Zareth (Dec 13, 2010)

Hmm, I wonder why your HC hates you so much... =[ 
I have had lesser growth in mine on the more elevated parts of the tank but still in 15 days I got about the same growth, maybe better, as yours at week 8. You do spray the dry stuff daily right? I spray mine three times a day, but only the elevated part of the tank


----------



## home grown (Jun 7, 2010)

UG looks amazing. please fill it soon


----------



## DMRaver (Dec 30, 2010)

TLE041 said:


> I think my problem was with the HC drying out in parts of the tank. The slopes in the substrate made getting a uniform water level impossible, so some of the substrate was submerged under water while others were dry. The plants that had a lot of water grew really well but the elevated plants dried out. I'm sure that if I made the substrate in the entire tank an even level I'd get a full carpet by now. I really like the look of the slopes so I kept it as is.


Maybe I'm seeing the slopes of your tank incorrectly... it seems as if the higher sections of HC are doing better, while the lower read[wetter] sections are yellow and stunted? I am planning on dry starting HC soon myself, so I am following this thread closely. After seeing how well your UG is doing I am even considering switching my foreground


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Mini-L - 13th week

The foreground is starting to show some minor growth.




















Mini-M - 12th week

Not much longer for this tank.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Mini-L - 14th week

HC is about 50% filled in. Hopefully it won't take another 3 months for the rest.




















Mini-M - 13th week

I'll probably be able to add water to this tank next weekend.



















Thanks for reading!


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Since the UG carpet is a least 95% filled in now, I have a question for you guys before I add water to the tank. I've done a lot of reading and received a lot of warning about UG's propensity to melt when making the transition. I'd like to avoid this as much as possible, so what is the best step I should take? Should I...


Completely flood the tank and turn on the CO2 full blast, or

Slowly raise the water level by about 1/4" a week until all of the UG is submerged

I'd appreciate any thoughts/advice on this. TIA!


----------



## Ben Belton (Dec 12, 2008)

These look great. Wish I could find rocks like this.


----------



## Dollface (Sep 30, 2008)

Completely flood the tank and blast the CO2. Also do extremely frequent water changes to cut the nutrients down.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Mini-L - 15th week




















Mini-M - 14th week

Please see here for my question re. flooding this tank.



















Thanks for reading!


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

I just filled the Mini-M. I'll take some pictures of the tank as soon as the bubbles clear.

In the meantime, here are pictures of the progression that's taken place in the past 16 weeks...


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Frontal views:



















http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5044/5259006941_ac3bcef2be_z.jpg/IMG]

[IMG]http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5005/5278437178_9f89640c8c_z.jpg


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

The tank has been running overnight. Here are the pics:


----------



## cervantesmx (Feb 16, 2011)

So what's going on with that HC? - what's the update>?


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

It's been about 24 hours after I filled the tank with RO water. Here are the readings:


pH: 6.4
Ammonia: 0.25
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
KH: 1.0
GH: 2.0



cervantesmx said:


> So what's going on with that HC? - what's the update>?


Just a little growth from the last update. The HC outside of the growth zones are barely clinging on. I'll probably run out and buy another pot or two to plant in these areas some time this week. Other than that, I might just flood the whole thing as it is right now.


----------



## schg (Nov 27, 2010)

Why don't you buy a pot to fill in the areas, and fill it immediately after? My HC in my other tank grows like crazy and the only thing I have is an aquaclear 20, and do 40% water changes every 4 days.

The UG tank looks amazing! Great job!


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

schg said:


> Why don't you buy a pot to fill in the areas, and fill it immediately after? My HC in my other tank grows like crazy and the only thing I have is an aquaclear 20, and do 40% water changes every 4 days.


I'll probably do that. Is your HC growing compact?



schg said:


> The UG tank looks amazing! Great job!


Thanks!


----------



## Aquahollics (Feb 1, 2011)

Enjoyed the progress pictures of the growth... Nice work!


----------



## Couesfanatic (Sep 28, 2009)

Awesome UG. Keep us updated on its growth. I'd like to see it it grows faster on the dry start or filled.

Is that the black Solar Mini?


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Aquahollics said:


> Enjoyed the progress pictures of the growth... Nice work!





Couesfanatic said:


> Awesome UG. Keep us updated on its growth. I'd like to see it it grows faster on the dry start or filled.


Thank you! I'll definitely keep updating this thread.




Couesfanatic said:


> Is that the black Solar Mini?


Nope, just the standard gray Solar Mini.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

I just flooded the Mini-L. Pics to come when the bubbles are gone.

As for the Mini-M, everything's going well so far. The UG still looks the same (very happy about that!). No pearling at all, though.

Stats for day 3:Temp: 73°F


pH: 6.4
Ammonia: 2.0
Nitrite: 0.5
Nitrate: 0
dKH: 2
dGH: 3

I was afraid the water was going to be yellow so I added a carbon pad to the 2211. The water's always been crystal clear, so either the carbon is working or the water was never yellow to begin with.

I'm also dosing Seachem Stability to help speed up the cycling.

For anyone with a 2211 and wants to increase the flow rate, just swap out the stock impeller with one designed for the 2213. They're both the same size, but the 2213's has double the number of rotors on it. I've noticed the flow rate has improved 25-30% since the swap.





































More updates coming soon. Thanks for reading!


----------



## home grown (Jun 7, 2010)

Hi Tony,

I just started a dry start with UG a couple of day's ago. could you break it down for me:

1) how many hours of light a day? i have 2 13-watt fluval lights on an ebi
2) misting with flourish iron correct? was it effective? and what percentage of iron to water? I'm misting with Excel currently. 
3) other details you figured out along the way?

Thanks for the help.

-Tony


----------



## Capsaicin_MFK (Nov 15, 2009)

To reduce melting with that UG make the drop checker bright yellow. You might empty those co2 cartridges quickly but it will pay off.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

home grown said:


> Hi Tony,
> 
> I just started a dry start with UG a couple of day's ago. could you break it down for me:
> 
> ...


Hi there,

UG is an awesome plant to do a dry start with. It couldn't have gone better for me. If I can do it, anyone can. Here are my replies to your questions:

1. I had the lights on for 12-14 hours a day.

2. I added the Flourish fertilizer lineup (including Excel) to my spray water very sparingly to avoid excess nutrient buildup. I used the recommended dosing instructions on the bottle (with the volume of water in my spray bottle).

3. Make sure you keep the tank damp by covering it with saran wrap (with a few holes for air exchange). You'll know that it's damp enough when there's a layer of condensation on the tank glass.

You should like you have ideal lighting for this plant. The important thing is to have a ton of patience! Good luck with your tank! Start a journal so we can follow along.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

The Mini-L has been filled for two days now. Here are the pictures:























































Thanks for reading!


----------



## Fat Guy (Nov 19, 2003)

lookin good


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Mini-M (Day 5)


Temp: 73°F
pH: 6.4
Ammonia: 1.0
Nitrate: 0
Nitrite: 0.5
dKH: 2
dGH: 3

Mini-L (Day 3)


Temp: 72°F
pH: 6.4
Ammonia: 0.25
Nitrate: 0
Nitrite: 0
dKH: 5
dGH: 8
 


Fat Guy said:


> lookin good


Thank you! roud:


----------



## home grown (Jun 7, 2010)

TLE041 said:


> Hi there,
> 
> UG is an awesome plant to do a dry start with. It couldn't have gone better for me. If I can do it, anyone can. Here are my replies to your questions:
> 
> ...


Appreciate all of the help Tony. BTW the DHG looks amazing.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

home grown said:


> BTW the DHG looks amazing.


Thank you. It's gone a long way from just a pot of _E. acicularis_ from Petsmart. Here's what it looked like just planted:


----------



## Couesfanatic (Sep 28, 2009)

Nice stand you got the Mini L on. Where did you get it?


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Couesfanatic said:


> Nice stand you got the Mini L on. Where did you get it?


I ordered it from here. 

I would have preferred an ADA-style stand, but its modern minimal look wouldn't go with the rest of my house. This one fits in nicely.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Mini-M (Day 7)


Temp: 73°F
pH: 6.2
Ammonia: 0.5
Nitrite: 0.25
Nitrate: 0
dKH: 1
dGH: 4

Mini-L (Day 5)


Temp: 72°F
pH: 6.8
Ammonia: 0.25
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
dKH: 5
dGH: 9


----------



## home grown (Jun 7, 2010)

Hey Tony,

When you reintroduced water to the tank due to evaporation during dry-start did you use Distilled water or does it not matter?


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

home grown said:


> When you reintroduced water to the tank due to evaporation during dry-start did you use Distilled water or does it not matter?


I just used dechlorinated tap water. The plants don't need distilled water.

The only reason I'm using RO water to fill the tanks is because I'll be adding some high grade crystal shrimps next week. If you don't plan on keeping sensitive livestock, then tap water is fine (assuming it's relatively neutral).


----------



## MissGreen08 (Jan 4, 2011)

I've been watching this tank for awhile but wow! I LOVE the UG. I'm planning a similar set-up myself and I think you have convinced me to do a dry-start instead of starting it filled.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

MissGreen08 said:


> I've been watching this tank for awhile but wow! I LOVE the UG. I'm planning a similar set-up myself and I think you have convinced me to do a dry-start instead of starting it filled.


UG is a great plant. I like it a lot so far. If only it wasn't so expensive to obtain initially.

And definitely start it emersed. It took me a whopping 4 months to get a full carpet. I can't even imagine how long it'd take growing submerged.


----------



## MissGreen08 (Jan 4, 2011)

How large of a section did you start with? 1x1? 2x2? A pot of it? Just trying to get an idea. I'm tempted to do a dry start but with twice as much as you started with to settle my impatience.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

I started with six 1x1 sections.


----------



## home grown (Jun 7, 2010)

I bought a 3" X 3" section of UG from a member here for $20. It has been somewhat difficult to find thus far for a good price.


----------



## home grown (Jun 7, 2010)

TLE041 said:


> I just used dechlorinated tap water. The plants don't need distilled water.
> 
> The only reason I'm using RO water to fill the tanks is because I'll be adding some high grade crystal shrimps next week. If you don't plan on keeping sensitive livestock, then tap water is fine (assuming it's relatively neutral).


Thanks Tony, I will de-chlorinate by leaving a jug of water in the sunlight for 12 hours or so.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

home grown said:


> I bought a 3" X 3" section of UG from a member here for $20. It has been somewhat difficult to find thus far for a good price.


That seems like a fair price. I paid $8 CDN for each of my 1x1 sections.



home grown said:


> Thanks Tony, I will de-chlorinate by leaving a jug of water in the sunlight for 12 hours or so.


I wouldn't bother with that. Just add a drop of dechlorinator (I use Prime) to your water before you use it.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Mini-M (Day 9)


Temp: 73°F
pH: 6.2
Ammonia: 0.25
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
dKH: 2
dGH: 4
This tank is going well so far. The UG still looks just as good as the day I flooded it. It's also growing well. The two small "bald spots" are almost completely filled in. There's no pearling, though.

I've noticed that there's some hair algae appearing. I'm not too concerned about this because I'll be moving in my pair of amano shrimps in a few days (they've been awesome in dealing with it in the past). I'm also adding 0.8mL of Excel daily to help with this.






















Mini-L (Day 7)


Temp: 72°F
pH: 7.0
Ammonia: 0.25
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
dKH: 5
dGH: 8
It's the 1 week mark and I'm quite happy with this tank so far. The HC is growing just as well if not better than it was when it was emersed. The yellowing of the leaves in certain areas have also stopped. It's greening up nicely once the tank was filled. The DHG is doing a little too well that I had to give it a trim. Both are pearling. No algae problem with this tank so far.

I'm pretty impressed with the Sera CO2 reactor. I'm injecting 1 bubble per second and the drop checker is a nice bright green color. I also like that there's no fine bubbles visible.

I am slightly concerned about the 7 pH in this tank. I was hoping the AS would buffer the RO water better. I'm aiming for a 6.5. I'll see how it does in the next couple of days.





























Besides the Excel, I've also been adding Seachem Stability to help speed up the cycling on both tanks. Both Eheim canister filters have been running for quite some time now (11 months for the 2211 and 1.5 months for the 2213) so I'm hoping the cycle will be almost complete.

I've also adding a squirt of Pfertz every 3-4 days to make sure the plants have adequate nutrients to keep their growth high. This is much more convenient than using an eyedropper with the Seachem Flourish products I've been doing in the past.









Please excuse the poor picture quality. I've been using my Canon P&S to take these pics today.


----------



## LewisR (Feb 24, 2011)

Great thread mate. I envy your patience I'm in day 4 of my dry start and am already getting impatient!


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

LewisR said:


> Great thread mate. I envy your patience I'm in day 4 of my dry start and am already getting impatient!


Thank you. 

The 4+ months just flew by for me. It's a good thing I'm so busy. Otherwise I'd be glued in front of the tank all day literally watching grass grow.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

I just placed an order for a set of Azoo regulator and (tiny) 2 lb. CO2 canister to replace the Fluval CO2 set. It'll be here some time next week.

Since the Fluval cartridges cost nearly $50 for 3, I thought I'd just spend a bit more for this and save some money in the long run.

















I plan on using it with the Waterfall/Boyu in line diffuser.










And here's a picture of the CRS that will be arriving on Tuesday:










There'll be 12 of those (to go into the Mini-L) plus 11 similar CBS (for the Mini-M).


----------



## Zareth (Dec 13, 2010)

You have Ryouh Stones in the Mini M, correct?
They are likely responsible for your pH.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Zareth said:


> You have Ryouh Stones in the Mini M, correct?
> They are likely responsible for your pH.


The stones are in the Mini-L. Maybe that is what's buffering the pH up.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

I just added 3 amano shrimps to the Mini-M to help with the hair algae.

Also, I just placed an order for the matching ADA tops for these two tanks. It's made from the same glass as the rest of the tank. AFA is selling them for $18 and $22 (ADG doesn't carry these). This is a steal IMO. These prices are about half of the quotes I got for similar sized low-iron high clarity glass from local glass shops. I wanted the tops to match and also be clear enough to allow as much light through as possible.


----------



## niptek (Nov 9, 2008)

where are u getting your CRS? what grade and price?


----------



## MissGreen08 (Jan 4, 2011)

TLE041 said:


> I just added 3 amano shrimps to the Mini-M to help with the hair algae.
> 
> Also, I just placed an order for the matching ADA tops for these two tanks. It's made from the same glass as the rest of the tank. AFA is selling them for $18 and $22 (ADG doesn't carry these). This is a steal IMO. These prices are about half of the quotes I got for similar sized low-iron high clarity glass from local glass shops. I wanted the tops to match and also be clear enough to allow as much light through as possible.


What section of the site are these on? I tried looking and couldn't find them. Will be headed to AFA tomorrow to pick up all of my supplies for my long planned Mini-M!! Can't wait!


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

niptek said:


> where are u getting your CRS? what grade and price?


They're SS+. I'm getting them from Frank (The Shrimp Lab) here in Canada.




MissGreen08 said:


> What section of the site are these on? I tried looking and couldn't find them. Will be headed to AFA tomorrow to pick up all of my supplies for my long planned Mini-M!! Can't wait!


They're not listed on the website. I called the store and spoke to George Lo (the owner).

Make sure you start a journal about your Mini-M!


----------



## MissGreen08 (Jan 4, 2011)

TLE041 said:


> They're SS+. I'm getting them from Frank (The Shrimp Lab) here in Canada.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Will do! Been waiting to buy the tank until I found the right materials for hardscape. I'll ask George about them tomorrow.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

AFA is a treasure trove for aquascaping material. I got both my stones from them.

If I lived in the Bay area I'd be at the store every week (of course, I'd be broke, but happy :icon_mrgr).


----------



## MissGreen08 (Jan 4, 2011)

I LOVE the stones that they have, but I can't bring myself to spend over $100 on two to three stones. I found some petrified wood that I really love from another member on the forum for $30 plus shipping.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

The ADA stones aren't actually that expensive for a nano tank. I bought 15 lb. of Ryuoh and I only used about 9 lb. in my Mini-L. If you're picking it out in store, you can get the exact stones you want without having to buy extra. 10 lb. is only $39.99. For my Mini-M, I only used about 7 lb. of the Ohko stones (10 lb. is also $39.99).

In the end, it almost costs as much as what you paid for your petrified wood, and maybe even less since you're saving on the shipping.


----------



## chilled_fire (Jun 4, 2010)

the mini-L is looking awesome !


----------



## MissGreen08 (Jan 4, 2011)

TLE041 said:


> The ADA stones aren't actually that expensive for a nano tank. I bought 15 lb. of Ryuoh and I only used about 9 lb. in my Mini-L. If you're picking it out in store, you can get the exact stones you want without having to buy extra. 10 lb. is only $39.99. For my Mini-M, I only used about 7 lb. of the Ohko stones (10 lb. is also $39.99).
> 
> In the end, it almost costs as much as what you paid for your petrified wood, and maybe even less since you're saving on the shipping.


Hm. Well the wood hasn't been shipped out yet, so I guess I'll have to make a game-time decision tomorrow. I love the Ryuoh and the Ohko but I kind of want to throw a different rock scape in with all of the amazing Mini-M's on this forum. Maybe some of the ADA Zebra Rock will do the trick. Will need to bring my measuring tape!


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

chilled_fire said:


> the mini-L is looking awesome !


Thank you!



MissGreen08 said:


> Hm. Well the wood hasn't been shipped out yet, so I guess I'll have to make a game-time decision tomorrow. I love the Ryuoh and the Ohko but I kind of want to throw a different rock scape in with all of the amazing Mini-M's on this forum. Maybe some of the ADA Zebra Rock will do the trick. Will need to bring my measuring tape!


Sounds like fun. Hopefully they'll have a display tank nearby that you can do a dry arrangement with.


----------



## malaybiswas (Nov 2, 2008)

Very nice tanks. Love the ug carpet


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Now that the tanks are cycled, I went out and bought six CPDs for the Mini-M. Here they are drip acclimating:





































I forgot how tiny these guys are. They're pretty nondescript in the tank. They look great in a sizeable group, I'll probably add 3 more. Right now they're pale and washed out as expected. These guys are a lot bolder than my last batch, though. They're constantly shoaling in the foreground.


For the Mini-L, I moved in my school of 16 phoenix rasboras (_Boraras merah_). I was pleasantly surprised to net out 16 fishes considering I only bought 15 originally a few months ago. These fishes are TINY. I plan on adding another dozen next week. Here they are in the tank:



















I also moved in my 3 pygmy cories. I'll be adding 3 more next week. I love these guys. Here's one of them lying on the stone:










For the "bald spot" in the HC carpet, I bought two more pots and planted them the quick and easy way (ie. shoved them into the AS). It doesn't look that great right now, but half an hour later it was already pearling. 










Thanks for reading!


----------



## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

That UG carpet is amazingly lush. I think you just convinced me to dry start my next idea.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

malaybiswas said:


> Very nice tanks. Love the ug carpet





sewingalot said:


> That UG carpet is amazingly lush. I think you just convinced me to dry start my next idea.


Thank you!


----------



## fishboy87 (Feb 19, 2008)

Really nice! Love the UG


----------



## MissGreen08 (Jan 4, 2011)

Love the CPDs and the microrasboras!


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

fishboy87 said:


> Really nice! Love the UG


Thank you!



MissGreen08 said:


> Love the CPDs and the microrasboras!


Thanks! How was your trip to AFA?


----------



## Fizgig777 (Aug 20, 2004)

Had fun looking thru the progression of these tanks =) Very nice =)


----------



## MissGreen08 (Jan 4, 2011)

TLE041 said:


> Thank you!
> 
> 
> Thanks! How was your trip to AFA?


It went great! I have an ADA Mini-M, an Archaea 27W fixture, 2L Powersand Special S, 3L of Aquasoil Amazonia Normal and 2.5L of Aquasoil Amazonia Powder. I LOVED the Ohko stone but they didn't have any smaller pieces. Just seriously large ones where one would only somewhat fit if I had very little plants. I can always switch up the hardscape down the road if I get bored. Found some great smaller pieces of petrified wood and I think I'm also going to get a few more from another member on the forum. We will see what I can play around with when they come in and I will be asking for opinions on hard-scape. 

I'm still scared of the dry start. I would love if my UG turns out half as lush as yours! Tempted to do a mish-mash of UG, Glosso and HC and just see which one does the best. What do you think, try all three or stick with the cover I love the most - UG?

(Sorry for highjacking your thread. I will have the journal set-up soon.)


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Don't worry about the threadjacking. This thread would be dead without the banter.

Sounds like you made a lot of great purchases. I'm looking forward to your journal.

As for the plants, I would just stick with one. I don't really like the "wild" look of multiple ground cover plants. Personally, I love UG and would go with that. It was the easier plant to grow emersed for me.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

I just did a quick 25% water change in anticipation for the CRS that's arriving by mail this morning.

Here's what the Mini-M looks like:











So far so good with the UG carpet. *knock on wood*


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

My 11 SS/SS+ CRS and 11 S/S+ CBS have arrived. They just finished their drip acclimation and got added to the tanks.

Kudos to Frank of the Shrimp Lab (Canadian side) for his excellent packaging. No DOAs at all.










He double bagged them carefully to avoid squishing the shrimps at the corners 










Here they are during the drip acclimation. I threw in a Shirakura tablet to preoccupy them during the 2 hours wait










Here are the CRS in the Mini-L










CBS in the Mini-M. They seem to enjoy congregating in the corner with the UG bald spot










I'll try to take much better pictures with the DSLR in a little bit.


----------



## MissGreen08 (Jan 4, 2011)

TLE041 said:


> As for the plants, I would just stick with one. I don't really like the "wild" look of multiple ground cover plants. Personally, I love UG and would go with that. It was the easier plant to grow emersed for me.


I think you may be right. Got a great deal on some UG from a member on the forum. He is shipping it out today. This is where I need the advice. The guy still hasn't shipped the wood out and the UG will be here before it. What should I do with the UG while I'm waiting on the hardscape? Should I just set up the tank empty of hardscape? Or stick it in my 46 for a few days? It is grown submersed from the guy I'm getting it from. Hard choice to make!! 

Love the CBS and CRS. Are you keeping the CPDs and Microrasboras in with them also? Or having a shrimp only tank? I'd love some CRS for mine once it's settled, they look like tiny peppermint sticks!


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

MissGreen08 said:


> I think you may be right. Got a great deal on some UG from a member on the forum. He is shipping it out today. This is where I need the advice. The guy still hasn't shipped the wood out and the UG will be here before it. What should I do with the UG while I'm waiting on the hardscape? Should I just set up the tank empty of hardscape? Or stick it in my 46 for a few days? It is grown submersed from the guy I'm getting it from. Hard choice to make!!


The same thing happened with me and my rocks from AFA. I just left the UG sitting emersed in some wet Aquasoil for almost 8 days and they turned out fine. It was like kickstarting their emersed growth. 



MissGreen08 said:


> Love the CBS and CRS. Are you keeping the CPDs and Microrasboras in with them also? Or having a shrimp only tank? I'd love some CRS for mine once it's settled, they look like tiny peppermint sticks!


Yep, the CBS are kept with CPDs and a few amano shrimps while the CRS are with the microrasboras and pygmy cories. I've kept these fishes with RCS before and had no problems. They didn't seem to touch any of the shrimplets either.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)




----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

I really like how the crevases in the Ohko stones create natural caves for the shrimps.


----------



## MissGreen08 (Jan 4, 2011)

Looks like the wood might have fallen through. =( I saw some really great pieces of zebra rock at my LFS, but didn't buy them because I was waiting on the wood. Got an odd response today waiting for me in my inbox. We shall see I guess.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

MissGreen08 said:


> Looks like the wood might have fallen through. =( I saw some really great pieces of zebra rock at my LFS, but didn't buy them because I was waiting on the wood. Got an odd response today waiting for me in my inbox. We shall see I guess.


Sorry to hear that. Good luck with your search. There's always AFA!


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)




----------



## MissGreen08 (Jan 4, 2011)

TLE041 said:


> Sorry to hear that. Good luck with your search. There's always AFA!


I contacted them to see if they are getting any more petrified wood shipments in the next few weeks. We shall see! I'd love to go back to AFA and see if there are any other stones that might work, but it's an hour long drive and the gas has hit over $4.00 a gallon up here. Expensive trip just for some rocks. :icon_frow


----------



## MissGreen08 (Jan 4, 2011)

Whoo-hoo! I just spoke with George at AFA and he has about five new smaller pieces of wood. He won't ship them, but is ordering more and the rest should be there by Friday. Looks like I'll need to make a trip to the city this weekend. Let me know if you need any smaller items and I can ship them to you!


----------



## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

Pet Club in Emeryville always has petrified wood (as well as lots of other options).


----------



## MissGreen08 (Jan 4, 2011)

Betta Maniac said:


> Pet Club in Emeryville always has petrified wood (as well as lots of other options).


I wish it was closer to me! I have a Pet Club up here in Santa Rosa but they mainly have lace rock, quartz and zebra rock. No petrified wood. AFA is closer than Pet Club in Emeryville is. Next time I make an Ikea trip I will have to check it out. Thank you!


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

MissGreen08 said:


> Whoo-hoo! I just spoke with George at AFA and he has about five new smaller pieces of wood. He won't ship them, but is ordering more and the rest should be there by Friday. Looks like I'll need to make a trip to the city this weekend. Let me know if you need any smaller items and I can ship them to you!


That's great news! And thank you for the offer, I'll definitely keep that in mind. I just had an order shipped out to me by Steven (George's brother) today.

Looking forward to your tank when everything starts coming together!


----------



## MissGreen08 (Jan 4, 2011)

Should be soon. Is that the order with the tops for your Mini-M and Mini-L? Are you going to be drilling holes in them or will there be enough room for the lily pipes?


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

MissGreen08 said:


> Should be soon. Is that the order with the tops for your Mini-M and Mini-L? Are you going to be drilling holes in them or will there be enough room for the lily pipes?


Yep, the tops are in that order. The ADA tops only cover about 90% of the tank. It's still partially open on one side for things like lily pipes.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

I just replaced the Archaea clip on light with a Current USA pendant. I had to replace it because I wasn't going to be able to use a top with the Archaea light (the clips were in the way).

Here are the pictures:


----------



## beedee (Jul 1, 2010)

looks so nice man!


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

beedee said:


> looks so nice man!


Thanks! (' ',)


----------



## MissGreen08 (Jan 4, 2011)

I like the new light! Had a few surprises this week, maybe the tank will finally be up and running by the end of the weekend. That would be nice! Let me know if you need anything from AFA tomorrow. Should be heading out there tomorrow afternoon.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Have fun! And take pictures! I've always wondered what the store looked like inside.

Can't wait to see your tank up and running.


----------



## MissGreen08 (Jan 4, 2011)

Setting up journal now with hardscape opinions needed!


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

I added a couple of red spotted nerites to the tanks to help clean the rocks. Can you tell which area he's already done? :smile:


----------



## Chewyy (Feb 2, 2011)

great tanks they have a nice log its fun to look at all the pics.From the pics it looks like your drop checker is green , try to get it light green - greenish yellow.


----------



## jweis (Jan 31, 2011)

Does the tank seem to be getting enough light with the pendant light? I am looking to get a Mini L tank myself and had looked at the pendant light, but I had read it didn't provide enough light. I also will need a glass cover (to keep my kids' grubby hands out of the tank!).


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Chewyy said:


> great tanks they have a nice log its fun to look at all the pics.From the pics it looks like your drop checker is green , try to get it light green - greenish yellow.


Thanks! I take my pictures early in the morning about an hour after the CO2 goes on, so the drop checker hasn't fully changed yet. Throughout the day it stays at a light green color.



jweis said:


> Does the tank seem to be getting enough light with the pendant light? I am looking to get a Mini L tank myself and had looked at the pendant light, but I had read it didn't provide enough light. I also will need a glass cover (to keep my kids' grubby hands out of the tank!).


The pendant is 55W, so it's definitely strong enough for the Mini-L. The only negative is that it doesn't have a reflector, so a lot of the light is lost through the glass shade. In the future if I don't find it bright enough (unlikely) I can always spray paint the inside metallic silver to reflect the light.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

The new lily pipes from AFA came in today. These replaced the Aquaticmagic pipes I had before. They were too big for this tank. After some searching, I went with the Do!aqua VV-1 inflow and VP-1 outflow. It had the dimensions I was looking for and at a semi-reasonable price. I also got the ADA glass tops for the tanks.















































The HC carpet is still a little patchy, but it's filling in nicely. I gave it a little trim to keep it stay low. FTS:




























(The drop checker is blue because I just cleaned it and put it back in)


----------



## Chewyy (Feb 2, 2011)

Clean setup!


----------



## jweis (Jan 31, 2011)

Your tank looks great. I want to replicate it! Can you tell me what you ended up with for your CO2 set up? If you could snap a picture of the CO2 system, that would be great.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Chewyy said:


> Clean setup!


Thank you!




jweis said:


> Your tank looks great. I want to replicate it! Can you tell me what you ended up with for your CO2 set up? If you could snap a picture of the CO2 system, that would be great.


Sure!

For the Mini-L I'm using a simple Archaea regulator with a paintball adapter. It's diffused using a Sera Aktiv CO2 reactor. I've ordered this bubble counter to replace the one from my Fluval kit I'm using right now. It'll attach right onto the output of the regulator.

It's not a fancy $200+ dual stage setup, but everything seems to be working well so far. I'm injecting about 1.5 bubbles per second and the drop checker stays a nice yellow-green color.











In the Mini-M I'm currently using a Fluval CO2 system.











When the cartridge is empty, instead of buying more refills, I'll be switching over to an Azoo regulator. I also got the matching 2 lb. canister. Since I want to have as little in the tank as possible, I'll be using an in-line diffuser. 



















Hope this helps!


----------



## Fat Guy (Nov 19, 2003)

do you like having an inline diffuser? I'm contemplating doing that next. the less visible equipment in these tanks, the better (I feel)


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Fat Guy said:


> do you like having an inline diffuser? I'm contemplating doing that next. the less visible equipment in these tanks, the better (I feel)


I highly recommend it. I've been using those ubiquitous glass diffusers for a while now and I hate the look of it. Cleaning them (with bleach) is not fun. 

I haven't received that particular in-line diffuser yet so I can't comment on it, but I've been using the Sera one for almost a month now and it works like a charm. Another plus is that there's no maintenance that needs to be done. 

If you're going for a minimal look like I am, definitely scrap the in tank diffuser and get one!


----------



## Fat Guy (Nov 19, 2003)

cool beans. totally thinking about it. What about noise though? Do you find that the diffuser is loud because of the rotor that is part of the Sera one? or is it virtually silent? (nice snail by the way....just wait till it starts laying eggs everywhere..I've got the exact nerrite in one of my other tanks does a great job with the algae, but every week or so it peppers the glass with white eggs that take a razor blade to remove). best, el g


----------



## Fat Guy (Nov 19, 2003)

I also had my eye on one of these from greenleafaquariums


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Fat Guy said:


> cool beans. totally thinking about it. What about noise though? Do you find that the diffuser is loud because of the rotor that is part of the Sera one? or is it virtually silent? (nice snail by the way....just wait till it starts laying eggs everywhere..I've got the exact nerrite in one of my other tanks does a great job with the algae, but every week or so it peppers the glass with white eggs that take a razor blade to remove). best, el g


The Sera one does have a quiet moving water noise. Since I have it in a cabinet, it's practically silent.

I was pretty nervous from reading about the snail eggs. For now, they're in the tank on a trial basis. If I find that the eggs too unsightly or too much of a hassle to remove, they're gone (either given away or back to the LFS). Only time will tell.


----------



## urples (Nov 15, 2010)

i was looking at the same thing from gla. Post picture when you get it?


----------



## jweis (Jan 31, 2011)

Thank you very much for posting the pictures and explaining your CO2 setup. 

Regarding the nerite while snail eggs, I have a 37 gallon tank and sure there are a few white egg spots, but since they do such a good job eating the algae, I don't mind one bit.


----------



## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Where did you get that cool 2lb tank and regulator?!


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

jweis said:


> Regarding the nerite while snail eggs, I have a 37 gallon tank and sure there are a few white egg spots, but since they do such a good job eating the algae, I don't mind one bit.


Thanks! That's what I'm thinking as well. Since my tank is right beside a window, even with the blinds closed all the time, one of the four sides is always covered with a thin layer of algae. I'm hoping the nerites can help with this.



AzFishKid said:


> Where did you get that cool 2lb tank and regulator?!


From here: http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/4280/AZOO-CO2-Pressure-Regulator


----------



## jweis (Jan 31, 2011)

TLE041 said:


> Thanks! That's what I'm thinking as well. Since my tank is right beside a window, even with the blinds closed all the time, one of the four sides is always covered with a thin layer of algae. I'm hoping the nerites can help with this.
> 
> 
> From here: http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/4280/AZOO-CO2-Pressure-Regulator


That is a pretty good deal on the regulator and tank. They were listed as a "closeout" so I went ahead and ordered a set before they are all gone.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

jweis said:


> That is a pretty good deal on the regulator and tank. They were listed as a "closeout" so I went ahead and ordered a set before they are all gone.


That's great! Let me know if you have any questions with it.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

The Ryuoh stones in the Mini-L have been a total nightmare with the tank's water chemistry. It's raising the dGH to 11 and dKH to 7. pH is 7.6. These values are really high for the CRS in there. I've been doing 20% water changes every second day with RO water and it's not lowering it by much at all. Should I add some peat in the filter? Would this help?

To anyone considering Ryuoh/Seriyu stones, don't! (unless the livestock you intend on keeping likes hard water). So far, the Ohko stones in the Mini-M have been perfectly inert.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Rather than use a chemical product like the water softener pillow, I've decided to give peat a try. I went with Eheim Torf filter media ('torf' = German for 'peat'). 










I added about 200 mL of it to the 2213. Before the peat, here are the water parameters 24 hours after a 20% WC with RO water:


Temp: 72°F
pH: 6.8
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
dKH: 5
dGH: 9
TDS: 199
I'll update in a few days to see what the effects are.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Besides a small war with some minor hair algae, the Mini-M has been going great so far. The water parameters have been a piece of cake to maintain (unlike the Mini-L courtesy of the Ryuoh stones).

I've ordered a set of Cal Aqua nano lily pipes that should arrive soon (when the postal service decides that over two weeks transit is long enough). They'll be replacing the Aquaticmagic pipes I'm using right now. The 9mm size is way too tiny and makes cleaning them a huge chore.




















The UG carpet still has signs of hair algae, but it's looking pretty good IMHO. I've been cleaning the algae off it with a bottle brush and giving it double treatments of Excel. It should eventually disappear as the water parameters stabilize.

The UG leaflets are slowly taking on their longer grass-like submerged form. I really like how the iwagumi scape is resembling a field of grass interlaced with stone boulders. The various slopes in the tank are still there.











The CBS are doing great. I've been feeding them and treating the water with my ever growing collection of Shirakura and Mosura products/snake oil. Since I'm so impatient for them to breed, I've ordered 10 more to be arriving next week. I want them to be the focus of this tank. I really like the striking pattern of S-grades.

Here they are gathering at their hangout spot:










Thank you for reading. Comments/suggestions are appreciated!


----------



## jweis (Jan 31, 2011)

Just checking in again to see how that pendant light is working over your Mini L.  I am deciding between an Archaea fixture or the pendant. I like the look of the pendant better, but I am concerned about it being enough like. I actually bought 11 gallon tank from GLA which is just a bit bigger (18.9" x 11.8" x 11.8") than the Mini L. So, I am hoping the answer is the pendant is producing enough light...


----------



## dj2005 (Apr 23, 2009)

Your Mini M is looking great, TLE. Makes me want UG.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

jweis said:


> Just checking in again to see how that pendant light is working over your Mini L. I am deciding between an Archaea fixture or the pendant. I like the look of the pendant better, but I am concerned about it being enough like. I actually bought 11 gallon tank from GLA which is just a bit bigger (18.9" x 11.8" x 11.8") than the Mini L. So, I am hoping the answer is the pendant is producing enough light...


That size tank you bought is bigger than my Mini-L. The Archaea fixture is perfect for the dimensions of your tank. The pendant might not be able to successfully illuminate the two sides. I would go with the Archaea light. It's an excellent fixture.



dj2005 said:


> Your Mini M is looking great, TLE. Makes me want UG.


Thank you. UG is a great plant. You should go for it.


----------



## Armonious (Aug 16, 2010)

Must get UG! 

Been following these tanks for a while and I am really loving how they have developed.

What do you think about mixing UG and HC in the same tank? Is it feasible? I guess I am not sure of the growth rate of the HC (which I currently have) vs the UG.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Armonious said:


> Must get UG!
> 
> Been following these tanks for a while and I am really loving how they have developed.
> 
> What do you think about mixing UG and HC in the same tank? Is it feasible? I guess I am not sure of the growth rate of the HC (which I currently have) vs the UG.


Thank you!

I would go with just one of the two. Both have compact growing habits, but I can see the UG overtaking the HC easily. UG roots are really compact and go very deep into the substrate.

Here's a pic of what the roots look like. I've drawn a line indicating where the substrate ends.










Personally, I prefer UG over HC.


----------



## Armonious (Aug 16, 2010)

Ah, I see.

It's just that I have a good amount of HC at the moment that I don't really want to part with or sell, but I would like to try UG as well. I don't really have room/ money for another setup at the moment either. Ah, choices, choices.

Wow! Those are some deep roots. Any clue if UG would grow emmersed under a low wattage CFL (say 9-12W) or would I need something of higher wattage. I could see myself doing some in small areas between now and when I get out of school for the summer if I wouldn't need to make any new lighting purchaces.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Armonious said:


> Ah, I see.
> 
> It's just that I have a good amount of HC at the moment that I don't really want to part with or sell, but I would like to try UG as well. I don't really have room/ money for another setup at the moment either. Ah, choices, choices.


Personally, I'd go with UG. I had a much tougher time with HC during the DSM, and my HC carpet isn't looking as nice my UG one.




Armonious said:


> Wow! Those are some deep roots. Any clue if UG would grow emmersed under a low wattage CFL (say 9-12W) or would I need something of higher wattage. I could see myself doing some in small areas between now and when I get out of school for the summer if I wouldn't need to make any new lighting purchaces.


You might be able to, but the plant wouldn't turn out very nice IMO. Under low light the UG forms long and narrow leaves. It also turns a light yellow color. I prefer the shorter, more compact growth and deep green color that you get with a higher light.


----------



## Armonious (Aug 16, 2010)

What do you think would be necessary in order to get nice emmersed growth out of UG? For the sake of example, lets just say that we're using a 10gallon tank. My current plan, as mentioned earlier, is to try to get some emmersed growth to use for myself or possibly sell.

Also, for immersed form, do you think a 36W PC fixture would be suffucient lighting (again in a 10gallon). I would imagine it would be,so my question is more on what the lowest wattage I should use to get nice growth emmersed.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Armonious said:


> What do you think would be necessary in order to get nice emmersed growth out of UG? For the sake of example, lets just say that we're using a 10gallon tank. My current plan, as mentioned earlier, is to try to get some emmersed growth to use for myself or possibly sell.
> 
> Also, for immersed form, do you think a 36W PC fixture would be suffucient lighting (again in a 10gallon). I would imagine it would be,so my question is more on what the lowest wattage I should use to get nice growth emmersed.


I've had good experience growing it emmersed in Aquasoil, so I'd suggest you get that as the substrate.

As for the light, 36W on the 10 gallon would be just right. You shouldn't have any problems growing a nice dense carpet with that light.


----------



## Armonious (Aug 16, 2010)

Thanks! I really like the growth rate that I am getting now from my 36W. I would like it to grow the HC a bit faster, but it seems to be a nice balance of lighting, so I don't have to trim constantly. 

I was hoping to avoid doing AS for the substrate in an emmersed setup. I am concidering doing several large-ish farm tanks over the summer, similar to what some others have done. Therefore, I would require a large amount of AS if I went that route ($$$). I am fine with AS if I am using the tank for show, but if it is just an emmersed farm, I would rather go with something cheaper. I was also looking to avoid MTS, as I won't really have the time/ space to go through the process.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Armonious said:


> I was hoping to avoid doing AS for the substrate in an emmersed setup. I am concidering doing several large-ish farm tanks over the summer, similar to what some others have done. Therefore, I would require a large amount of AS if I went that route ($$$). I am fine with AS if I am using the tank for show, but if it is just an emmersed farm, I would rather go with something cheaper. I was also looking to avoid MTS, as I won't really have the time/ space to go through the process.


Luckily, since UG doesn't really require a nutrient-rich substrate, your options are pretty open. You can go with whatever is the cheapest (probably sand or turface).

Personally, I'd go with MTS.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

It's been a few days since I've added the Eheim Torf peat media to the filter. Here are the changes:


pH: 6.4 (previously 6.8)
dKH: 4 (previously 5)
dGH: 8 (previously 9)
The water is slowly softening and decreasing in pH. The thing I like is that the peat hasn't turned the water yellow at all.

I've just completed a fight against blue-green algae (cyanobacteria). I lost two fishes and 1 CRS in the process, but the tank does look much better.










I've also added a few handfuls of Aquasoil to cover some of the exposed HC roots. The carpet is filling in _very_ slowly.

The one oto and two nerites I have in there are doing an awesome job cleaning the stones (previously, it was covered in various algae and cyanobacteria).


----------



## Kazuya (Apr 4, 2011)

Nice looking tank.

I wanted to ask you about the DSM you did with the UG.
All you use was the AS and you sprayed Excel+flourish.
How much of each do you put with how much water?
The E+F doesn't have to be used?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Thanks!



Kazuya said:


> I wanted to ask you about the DSM you did with the UG. All you use was the AS and you sprayed Excel+flourish. How much of each do you put with how much water? The E+F doesn't have to be used?


I didn't use Flourish or any other fertilizer in the spritizing water. UG doesn't like to come into contact with a lot of nutrients. I only used a tiny bit of Excel (like 5 drops in a 2 cup spray bottle) for its anti-algae properties.

Plain, dechlorinated water is perfectly fine.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Sharing a cucumber slice:


----------



## Kazuya (Apr 4, 2011)

Sorry more questions for you.

How many bps do you put your CO2 at?
And how long does a bottle last?

Last how long are you going to keep the Peat in?

Thanks in advance


----------



## Beijing08 (Oct 13, 2010)

I've been following this thread for a while, but I must say now that this has matured so much I can't afford not to comment lol.

Excellent job with the scaping!
Now when the UG is overgrown, you're gonna have to remove the entire mat. 
I'm waiting for the rescape pictures =)

p.s. Having ALL the equipments shipped to Canada must've been something eh.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Kazuya said:


> How many bps do you put your CO2 at?


Just 1 bps in both tanks.



Kazuya said:


> And how long does a bottle last?


I'll get back to you on that. I'm still on my first Fluval canister and haven't had to refill the paintball tank yet. They've both been running for about 5 weeks now. I do turn both off at night (either manually or with the solenoid valve).



Kazuya said:


> Last how long are you going to keep the Peat in?


Probably permanently as long as I either have CRS or the Ryuoh stones in the tank. The shrimps prefer soft, slightly acidic water while the stones raise water pH and hardness.

Hope this helps!


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Beijing08 said:


> I've been following this thread for a while, but I must say now that this has matured so much I can't afford not to comment lol.
> 
> Excellent job with the scaping!
> Now when the UG is overgrown, you're gonna have to remove the entire mat.
> ...


Thanks!

I'm hoping to keep the UG like this for a long time. I'll probably have to give it a buzz cut in a few weeks. That should help thin the carpet out a bit. Somehow another 3 months of dry start doesn't sound too appealing to me. 

And I've probably paid USPS/Canada Post enough in shipping fees to probably feed an small third word country. We need an ADA retailer in Canada (an actual one that gets their stock straight from ADA, not a reseller like AquaInspiration).


----------



## Beijing08 (Oct 13, 2010)

TLE041 said:


> And I've probably paid USPS/Canada Post enough in shipping fees to probably feed an small third word country. We need an ADA retailer in Canada (an actual one that gets their stock straight from ADA, not a reseller like AquaInspiration).


True that. AI gets their stuff from George over at AFA. However, do you know the basic costs of becoming a distributor of ADA? the headquarters are reluctant to send their whole line of products over because our niche for high end products is so small. For instance, once you and I both purchase a tank, it's not likely for us to buy another tank and another following that...the market quickly becomes saturated...we only got 1/10 of the population of U.S. an even smaller % of people in this hobby.

Having said that, an ADA distributor in Canada would be my dream come true. 

btw, where exactly are u located? I don't mind picking up your leftover equipment if one day you decide to upgrade


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

6 weeks later, the Cal Aqua nano pipes finally arrived. They've replaced the Do!aqua ones that turned out to be slightly too large for this tank. After trying three different ones, I think I've finally found a set that I can live with.











FTS:











Closeups of new shrimps:






























Beijing08 said:


> ...where exactly are u located? I don't mind picking up your leftover equipment if one day you decide to upgrade


Sounds good! I'm in Ottawa


----------



## Couesfanatic (Sep 28, 2009)

Thanks for the pictures. I have a set of those lily pipes on order. They look nice. BTW, what lid do you have on there?


----------



## GDP (Mar 12, 2011)

I really do like this tank. Good to see you won your battle with algea, im just starting with mine lol.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Couesfanatic said:


> Thanks for the pictures. I have a set of those lily pipes on order. They look nice. BTW, what lid do you have on there?


Thank you! You'll be happy with the pipes. It looks like a quality piece of product. The lids are from ADA designed for these tanks.



GDP said:


> I really do like this tank. Good to see you won your battle with algea, im just starting with mine lol.


Thanks! I didn't have to do much to the blue-green algae in the Mini-L. It only took two doses of this product. As for the Mini-M, I'm still battling the hair algae by manually removing as much of it as I can. Double doses of Excel isn't doing much. I'd use more but I don't want to jeopardize the livestock.

I've come to accept that algae is one of those hassles that new tanks go through. Good luck with your fight!


----------



## Zerocon (Apr 14, 2011)

Iv'e always wondered if Shrimp or Fish ever escape a lidless Aquarium?
I've go the option to go lidless if i wanted to, but i'd be worried about escapees!
Also, how much would you say it costs you to keep the tank running per week?
 thanks!


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Zerocon said:


> Iv'e always wondered if Shrimp or Fish ever escape a lidless Aquarium?
> I've go the option to go lidless if i wanted to, but i'd be worried about escapees!


In my last rimless/topless tank I've lost about 1 RCS a week and about 6 CPD in total. In this tank I wanted to avoid losing any more livestock so I made use of the included clips and matching tops.

I LOVE the look of rimless tanks filled up to the brim, but I've had to sacrifice that to save the suicidal fishes/shrimps. :icon_neut



Zerocon said:


> Also, how much would you say it costs you to keep the tank running per week?
> thanks!


Besides the initial cost of everything, the only continuing expenses I'll probably have are electricity and water. I don't think I have to buy any more supplies for at least two years!


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

I received the Cal Aqua Labs Clip drop checker that I ordered (shipping took 8 days). Since I'm trying to have as few equipment inside the tank as possible and I also didn't like how traditional drop checkers stick out like a sore thumb, this seemed like a good solution. The design is definitely unique. It's replacing the eBay drop checkers in both tanks.

The only thing I don't like about it is the piece sticking out that's used for attaching to a suction cup (for in-tank use). It detracts from the sleek look of it. Rather than go for versatility, I think they should have designed it without that piece and exclusively for use on rimless tanks. Other than that, I don't have any other complaints.


----------



## JamesHockey (Nov 10, 2010)

Omg its an otto!


----------



## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Very nice. I dont know about you but I am not versed in glass cutting. I'm sure someone that was though would be able to lop that suction cup nipple (or whatever) off pretty easily. Any ideas?


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

bsmith said:


> Very nice. I dont know about you but I am not versed in glass cutting. I'm sure someone that was though would be able to lop that suction cup nipple (or whatever) off pretty easily. Any ideas?


I've definitely considered it. 

The easiest way would probably be using a Dremel with a diamond disc.


----------



## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

That's what I was thinking. Kind of grind it down after lopping it off.


----------



## not_sponsored (Mar 29, 2008)

I asked them about getting one without the suction cup nub and they said they could get one in a few weeks (a couple weeks ago).


----------



## Couesfanatic (Sep 28, 2009)

TLE041, 
Have you noticed if the UG grew faster emersed or immersed?


----------



## slicebo123 (Jan 4, 2010)

ahh the clip drop checker. i thought about getting it, but i'm far too lazy to keep the water level that high all the time... although getting one of those would give me more incentive to do it. makes sense on a nano though.

ps: awesome tanks.


----------



## GDP (Mar 12, 2011)

TLE041 said:


> I received the Cal Aqua Labs Clip drop checker that I ordered (shipping took 8 days). Since I'm trying to have as few equipment inside the tank as possible and I also didn't like how traditional drop checkers stick out like a sore thumb, this seemed like a good solution. The design is definitely unique. It's replacing the eBay drop checkers in both tanks.
> 
> The only thing I don't like about it is the piece sticking out that's used for attaching to a suction cup (for in-tank use). It detracts from the sleek look of it. Rather than go for versatility, I think they should have designed it without that piece and exclusively for use on rimless tanks. Other than that, I don't have any other complaints.


OTO!!!!!! LOL I love those little buggers.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

JamesHockey said:


> Omg its an otto!





GDP said:


> OTO!!!!!! LOL I love those little buggers.


LOL he snuck into the picture. I didn't even notice him there until after I uploaded it.




Couesfanatic said:


> Have you noticed if the UG grew faster emersed or immersed?


I think it definitely did did grow faster. That's not to say that it grows poorly underwater. With sufficient light and CO2, I've noticed that the submerged growth rate is still quite high. The huge advantage to a dry start is the healthy, deep roots that you get. The roots in this tank is over 1.5" below the substrate line. If you have a shallow root system, I can see the entire thing lifting up as a sheet. When that happens, replanting it would be very difficult if not impossible.




slicebo123 said:


> ahh the clip drop checker. i thought about getting it, but i'm far too lazy to keep the water level that high all the time... although getting one of those would give me more incentive to do it. makes sense on a nano though.
> 
> ps: awesome tanks.


Thank you. The water line in that tank is 1 cm below the rim. Anything over 2 cm wouldn't work.


----------



## Couesfanatic (Sep 28, 2009)

Thanks for the reply. Let us know when you cut that UG down. Maybe i'm just nuts, but it looks like a lot of fun could be had mowing UG.

BTW, where do they sell that ADA lid? I still cant find that thing online.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Couesfanatic said:


> ...it looks like a lot of fun could be had mowing UG.


I did it once already. The cutting part was easy with the right tools, but netting up all the clippings afterwards was pretty tedious.



Couesfanatic said:


> BTW, where do they sell that ADA lid? I still cant find that thing online.


The only place that sells it is Aqua Forest Aquariums (adana-usa.com). You have to order by phone because it's not listed on their website.


----------



## Couesfanatic (Sep 28, 2009)

Thanks again, your tanks are looking nice.


----------



## J-P (Oct 17, 2010)

amazing stuff. I'm totally in awe!


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Couesfanatic said:


> Thanks again, your tanks are looking nice.





J-P said:


> amazing stuff. I'm totally in awe!


Thanks for the kind words, guys!


----------



## gitusukka (Dec 31, 2007)

Thank you for sharing, very inspiriational.


----------



## tab51 (Jan 17, 2011)

really great tank, i really enjoyed seeing the progression. great job on the UG, i heard it can really be very tough to grow. I am on day 3 post planting, so i still got a little while. And i really like that okho stone, i havent seen many scapes that utilitized it, very original.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Mini-L

I drastically thinned out the DHG background. The HC carpet got a haircut as well. It's about 90% completely filled in now.











View from left side:











Pic showing the tank's livestock: Boraras merah, CRS, and nerite snails. (Not shown are the pygmy cories)











View from right side:


----------



## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Looking good. 
Did you tweak the levels on these pics? They look crazy saturated...


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Mini-M

The second set of nano lily pipes from Cal Aqua Labs arrived and were installed on the tank. I'm happy with the dimensions.




















Full pic of setup











I think I've been quite successful in my quest to eliminate all equipment from the inside of the tank. They are all either in-line with the filter tubing or hang on one side.











FTS. There are 6 CPDs in there that I've given up taking pictures of. They seem to have a 6th sense when it comes to the presence of my camera.




















My little worker bee - one of the two otos in the tank:


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

roybot73 said:


> Looking good.
> Did you tweak the levels on these pics? They look crazy saturated...


Thank you.

No tweaking were done (I wouldn't have a clue how to). These were all taken with my Canon P&S. Great little camera.


----------



## Rockhoe14er (Jan 19, 2011)

wow what an amazing looking tank. Great job on both of them.


----------



## Quentin (Mar 16, 2011)

Look good. Jealous of ur light.


----------



## bsk (Aug 18, 2010)

your UG looks amazingly lush. Beautiful tanks!


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

FYI, I've been in discussion with Cal Aqua Labs about the Clip checkers. They've agreed to exchange the two I have for new nub-less versions. I have to do is ship these old ones back to them. To save some time in transit, I've also sent them a Paypal payment to act as a deposit so that they can ship the new ones right now. They've agreed to issue a refund when they receive my return package.

Pretty good customer service IMO.




Rockhoe14er said:


> wow what an amazing looking tank. Great job on both of them.





Quentin said:


> Look good. Jealous of ur light.





bsk said:


> your UG looks amazingly lush. Beautiful tanks!


Thank you, guys! :icon_wink


----------



## ming30g (Mar 18, 2007)

look at the clarity of the water and lushness of the plants, truly a piece of art. I wish I could have grow a tank like that, in my dream


----------



## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Are you using Purigen?

I love the tank. I think it would be very cool to only have a group of clithon snails and ottos! Call me weird but I think it would be neat. 

I just got an email back from Cal saying that they were trying to track my clip checker. I'm not mad or angry with them. With as much stuff as I ship mailing problems are bound to pop up from time to time. I just responded that if for some reason it never got shipped or if it never does pop up that I would like a nubless one as well.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

ming30g said:


> look at the clarity of the water and lushness of the plants, truly a piece of art. I wish I could have grow a tank like that, in my dream


Thank you! I can honestly say that if I could do it, anyone can. It just took 3 months worth of patience! :hihi:



bsmith said:


> Are you using Purigen?


No Purigen or carbon in either tanks. Overfiltering and regular water changes keeps the water clear.



bsmith said:


> I love the tank. I think it would be very cool to only have a group of clithon snails and ottos! Call me weird but I think it would be neat.


I love the spiky look of clithon snails. If I could find them locally I'd snap them up in a heartbeat.

Otos are must-haves for me. My one oto in the Mini-L single handedly keeps all the Ryuoh stones pristine (the snails take care of the glass).



bsmith said:


> I just got an email back from Cal saying that they were trying to track my clip checker. I'm not mad or angry with them. With as much stuff as I ship mailing problems are bound to pop up from time to time. I just responded that if for some reason it never got shipped or if it never does pop up that I would like a nubless one as well.


With a tracking number, you can track it straight from Thailand Post to USPS to your front door. If they can't get you a tracking number, then it's safe to say that they didn't ship it. I'd get them to send you a nub-less one ASAP.


----------



## RWalleyTX (Apr 17, 2011)

what is your schedule with the tanks? dosing? water changes?


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

It's almost 10 weeks since the Mini-M was filled. The UG is starting to look a little unkempt so I had to do some housekeeping.

I had to add a bit more Aquasoil since a lot of it had settled when water was added, so a few craters formed around the base of the stones (they weren't visible because of the carpet). This caused the UG to be detached from the substrate and lift as a sheet. Rather than spend hours and replant them, I just pulled those sections out and let it eventually fill in on its own (it wouldn't look the same once replanted, anyways). I estimate it'll be about 6 weeks or so until the UG returns to its prior state. I also gave the rest of the carpet a massive haircut.




























As you can see, the tank isn't looking great right now. I don't mind it since I'm not entering it in any aquascaping competition any time soon (or ever).

Currently, the livestock in the tank comprises of:


22 CBS
6 CPD
2 oto
Thanks for reading!


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

RWalleyTX said:


> what is your schedule with the tanks? dosing? water changes?


Weekly 20-25% water changes with RO water. For fertilizer I give 1 spritz of each of the 4 bottles of Pfertz (N,P,K, micro) every 4 days or so. For the shrimps I add 1mL of Mosura Mineral Plus to reconstitute the water at every WC.


----------



## dtum (May 2, 2011)

Where are the CPDs? Can we get a few shots of them?


----------



## lysmelee (May 8, 2011)

Wow the UG seems to be the best looking carpet!!! Nice tank!


----------



## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

You have inspired me to grow UG for my next tank. I'm going submerged from day one though. I'm too lazy to spray and vent everyday.

I'm going to try and blast it with CO2, ferts and lights in the beginning and hope that mine won't melt.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

dtum said:


> Where are the CPDs? Can we get a few shots of them?


Here's one:










Taking a picture of them is like pulling teeth because they _never_ stay still (as soon as I press the shutter they're somewhere else). These fishes are actually much prettier in person. My P&S camera doesn't do them much justice. I'm expecting the pattern to improve as they mature. These guys are only juveniles right now. 

Here's a picture off the web of what adult CPDs should look like:










My batch from my last tank are nearly identical to these two. These are some of my favorite fishes ever.



lysmelee said:


> Wow the UG seems to be the best looking carpet!!! Nice tank!


Thank you!

UG carpets are great. I'm hoping maintaining it long-term is possible. So far I haven't seen anyone on the internet who has kept one for more than a couple of months (those who have aren't looking very good).



shrimpnmoss said:


> You have inspired me to grow UG for my next tank. I'm going submerged from day one though. I'm too lazy to spray and vent everyday.
> 
> I'm going to try and blast it with CO2, ferts and lights in the beginning and hope that mine won't melt.


Good luck with it. The important thing is to have strong light and good CO2 levels. They're not too demanding on ferts.


----------



## dtum (May 2, 2011)

Hey! Any update on the tank? You have certainly inspired a lot of people.

I'm trying to mimic some aspects of your tanks, got the CPDs recently, but they seem to be hiding a lot and certainly can not be appreciated from across the room. Now thinking whether I should've just gone with neons.

Curious to know how your tanks are doing.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Okay, I think it's time I update this thread...

The Mini-M has been changed drastically. This is what it looked at its peak:











Unfortunately the UG has deteriorated beyond saving. Despite my best efforts, it kept getting paler and paler. Worse yet, it didn't stay rooted in the AS (despite the roots being over 1" deep). Instead, it started lifting up as an entire sheet and floated around the tank. I tried replanting it, but it didn't look the same. UG is gorgeous plant, but I question its use long-term submerged. I've never seen anyone with a UG carpet lasting more than 6 months anywhere on the internet. Perhaps it's only meant for emersed growth.

Rather than continue with the UG, I just ripped it all up and planted HC in its place. The HC in my Mini-L is doing great and looks awesome, so I went with it in this tank as well. The planting process took over 3 hours because I planted each plantlet individually. I've had success doing this in the past and got a really nice root system this way.

Here's what the tank looked after all the UG was removed:











After the HC was planted:




















It doesn't look very pretty right now, but from past experience, the HC won't take much time to fill in at all.

The livestock are doing great. There are 8 CPDs, about 20-25 CBS, and one oto in there.

More updates to come. Thanks for reading!


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

dtum said:


> I'm trying to mimic some aspects of your tanks, got the CPDs recently, but they seem to be hiding a lot and certainly can not be appreciated from across the room. Now thinking whether I should've just gone with neons.


CPDs are ridiculously shy, but I find that the longer they're in the tank the less shy they'll get. It helps if you have a sizable school of them as well. My 8 don't hide anymore and are pretty bold. I've actually had to shoo them away from the HC plantlets and my forceps/hand because they kept picking at it as I was planting (while the CBS were literally climbing all over my hands).

Since you only recently got them, I'd wait for at least another week. They'll get bolder and stop hiding in no time.


----------



## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

TLE041 said:


> CPDs are ridiculously shy, but I find that the longer they're in the tank the less shy they'll get. It helps if you have a sizable school of them as well. My 8 don't hide anymore and are pretty bold. I've actually had to shoo them away from the HC plantlets and my forceps/hand because they kept picking at it as I was planting (while the CBS were literally climbing all over my hands).
> 
> Since you only recently got them, I'd wait for at least another week. They'll get bolder and stop hiding in no time.



Would you say that CPD's school tightly like harlequins and cardinals? Or much losely?


----------



## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Nice rescape. Should fill in in no time 
I've noticed the same thing re: UG's longevity in submersed form. 
Never used the stuff myself...


----------



## Kazuya (Apr 4, 2011)

You have convinced me to get a Mini M set. roud:
I will do a 3 month DSM with HC for my mini set up.

I personally like HC better than UG.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

jkan0228 said:


> Would you say that CPD's school tightly like harlequins and cardinals? Or much losely?


Despite popular belief, CPDs aren't actually schooling fishes. Instead, they form loose shoals with each individual fishes moving at different directions (they never stay still).




roybot73 said:


> Nice rescape. Should fill in in no time
> I've noticed the same thing re: UG's longevity in submersed form.
> Never used the stuff myself...


Thanks. I hope so. 

UG is great, but I'm wondering if it's meant to be a fully aquatic plant.




Kazuya said:


> You have convinced me to get a Mini M set. roud:
> I will do a 3 month DSM with HC for my mini set up.


That's great. Depending on how much HC you start with initially, your dry start should only take about 6 weeks. The important thing is to keep the humidity high by regularly misting it (but not let it sit in any water at all).

I'm looking forward to your journal!


----------



## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I'm late to the party again, but what a nice set up. I would really love to try the ADA AS in my tank but cash flow will not permit it at the present time, I also like the rocks they add a nice look to the tank.


----------



## Kazuya (Apr 4, 2011)

TLE041 said:


> That's great. Depending on how much HC you start with initially, your dry start should only take about 6 weeks. The important thing is to keep the humidity high by regularly misting it (but not let it sit in any water at all).
> 
> I'm looking forward to your journal!


Look at my 60P journal. 
The only reason I am waiting so long is because my regulator has not come in yet.
Are you still using the Archaea light on the Mini L?


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

150EH said:


> I'm late to the party again, but what a nice set up. I would really love to try the ADA AS in my tank but cash flow will not permit it at the present time, I also like the rocks they add a nice look to the tank.


Thank you. AS is a bit expensive initially, but it's definitely worth it.



Kazuya said:


> Are you still using the Archaea light on the Mini L?


No, I sold that light on here a few months ago. I'm now using a hanging pendant light. More info here.


----------



## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

TLE041 said:


> Despite popular belief, CPDs aren't actually schooling fishes. Instead, they form loose shoals with each individual fishes moving at different directions (they never stay still).


So would you say that a few of them will still become astray from the rest of the group but eventually swim back?


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

jkan0228 said:


> So would you say that a few of them will still become astray from the rest of the group but eventually swim back?


Yes, a few of them will do that, but what I meant is that they will form _loose_ shoals with individuals going in random directions. They don't form the traditional tight schools that rasboras and tetras do. Hence, I prefer to classify them as shoaling fishes rather than schoolers.


----------



## home grown (Jun 7, 2010)

No plans to grow HC through dry start?

BTW- sorry to hear about the UG, I've been doing the dry-start for about 3 months now and am now regretting it.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

It's been about ten days since the UG --> HC changeover. There's a noticeable amount of new growth on the HC.











CPD and CBS (having dinner)











CBS, oto, and amano shrimp


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

I love the replacement nub-less Clip checker that Cal Aqua sent about 2 months ago. Since I haven't posted a pic of it yet, here it is:













home grown said:


> No plans to grow HC through dry start?


Not this time. The tank is already cycled and has a ton of livestock in it, so IMO it's not worth the effort to empty it and start all over again.

From my experience and what I've read, you can get just as good a result with emersed growth as a DSM as long as there's sufficient CO2.




home grown said:


> BTW- sorry to hear about the UG, I've been doing the dry-start for about 3 months now and am now regretting it.


I wouldn't be too concerned with your UG. This was just my experience. Hopefully you'll have better luck with it and it'll work out for you.

At 3 months, isn't ready to be filled yet?


----------



## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

Looks great. Your HC will fill in very quickly with the way you planted the HC.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Left side:











Right side:










(the glass definitely needs cleaning!)




shrimpnmoss said:


> Looks great. Your HC will fill in very quickly with the way you planted the HC.


Thank you!


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Great news - as I was doing a weekly water change today I spotted a bunch of tiny CBS shrimplets in the Mini-M! I'm pretty excited because these are my first crystal babies so far. I have a bunch of mature adults in the tank, but I didn't even notice that one was berried.

I continued to dose Mosura BioPlus and started feeding with Shirakura Chi Ebi. Between those two and the biofilm/algae in the tank there should be more than enough food for them.










Hopefully they'll grow up normally and more importantly not get sucked into the filter. *fingers crossed*


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

I didn't like how the substrate line was leveling out so I decided to put back the slopes. The replanting took a while but I think it was worth it (it doesn't quite show up well in the pictures, but it does look better in person)




















Me trying to dodge curious fishes and shrimps as I was planting the HC


----------



## Flyin Hawaiian (Apr 18, 2011)

Are you using the Azoo regulator yet? Any thoughts and concerns would be much appreciated.


----------



## gnod (Mar 24, 2011)

^me too! i'm thinking about getting one myself... along with every damn piece of equipment you got. -_-


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

I ran out of Aquasoil but still needed a little more substrate depth so I decided to give the Fluval Plant Stratum a try rather than wait a few weeks for AFA to send the AS in the mail. This was probably the biggest mistake I've made so far. The Fluval substrate sizes are so large and light that none of the HC would stay planted for long. It's been a constant cycle of replanting loose plantlets that kept floating into the water column. I was watching as they got uprooted from something as minor as a shrimp walking over it. 

Until the HC develops deep roots, I think I'll have to keep my planting forceps on me at all times. 

Aaarrrgghhh... Fluval Stratum = one of the worse products I've ever used.




Flyin Hawaiian said:


> Are you using the Azoo regulator yet? Any thoughts and concerns would be much appreciated.





gnod said:


> ^me too! i'm thinking about getting one myself... along with every damn piece of equipment you got. -_-


I've been using it for several months now and I'm happy with it. It keeps a stable bubble count. The solenoid valve works as it should. For the price I think it's a good value.


----------



## ADA (Dec 31, 2010)

Sooo jealous!! Look at all those CBS! I only have one.. (the one in my profile pic).. she had babies, but they must have perished because I don't see them anymore. Hopefully she will breed again. I love CBS.. better than CRS imho.


----------



## Flyin Hawaiian (Apr 18, 2011)

Did you have to adjust the Azoo reg at all to get a steady bubble count? I too purchased one and it has been running for about a month. However, I've been battling with the bubble count since I got it. I've noticed that the outflow gauge fluctuates from 25 to 30 psi which causes my unsteady bps. I'm not sure if it is caused by the 20 oz paintball tank I have it set up to.

Thanks for your help.


----------



## gnod (Mar 24, 2011)

^does the 20oz paintball tank fit the azoo regulator? 

saw the website's price on the 2lb tank and seems a lot pricier...


----------



## Flyin Hawaiian (Apr 18, 2011)

If you want to hook this up to a paintball tank then you will have to buy the paintball tank CGA 320 adapter. It cost anywhere from $15 - $20.


----------



## gnod (Mar 24, 2011)

something like this? 

dang... do i need to get O-rings for the adapter too?


----------



## Flyin Hawaiian (Apr 18, 2011)

Yup, that is the piece. You don't have to get O-rings right now. But, they do come in handy. Typically the place that you get your paintball tank refilled will replace it for you. The rings are cheap though and its isn't a bad idea if you bought some as back up just in case.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

The carpet in the Mini-M is continuing to fill in, so I thought I'd give an update on the Mini-L, which has recently undergone a complete makeover as well.

Here's what it originally looked like in April:











I wasn't too happy with the placement of the Ryuoh stones so I decided to rescape everything. I also didn't like how DHG was growing way too quickly and encroached on the HC despite a plastic divider being there. It also needed constant trimming (every 2-3 days) or it'll look unkempt. It was an easy decision for me to remove the DHG altogether. 

Here's what I looked like afterwards:










In clearing out the tank I spotted a few moving microscopic red & white specks which turned out to be baby CRS. I was pretty excited since they were the first I saw in this tank (along with the baby CBS in the Mini-M).

Here's what the tank looked like after I replanted some of the HC:











Angled from the top:











Angled left view:











Right side closeup:











Livestock (phoenix rasboras, pygmy cories, CRS, and an oto):











Right side view:










I upped the CO2 bubble rate to help speed up the carpet to fill in. I estimate it'll take about 4-6 weeks for it to look as it was before. The waiting game begins (again)...

Thanks for reading!


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Here's a little video I took of the tank: Youtube


----------



## Couesfanatic (Sep 28, 2009)

Nice. I like this rock layout much better.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Progress in the Mini-M has been pretty slow. I kind of expected this since the same thing has happened last time (during the initial dry start). The HC takes a while to develop a strong root system before growing new leaves.

Here's the tank so far:











Closeup of the eight CPDs darting around:










(The white "snow" floating around is Mosura BioPlus and Shirakura Chi Ebi baby food that I just added before it settles on the substrate a few seconds later)




Couesfanatic said:


> Nice. I like this rock layout much better.


Thank you!


----------



## Flyin Hawaiian (Apr 18, 2011)

I love the new rock layout of the Mini M. It gives the tanks much more depth. Great work!


----------



## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Beautiful ohko stone... it's my favorite!
Nice tanks. Love the CPD's. roud:


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Here's my video of the Mini-M: Youtube




Flyin Hawaiian said:


> I love the new rock layout of the Mini M. It gives the tanks much more depth. Great work!





AzFishKid said:


> Beautiful ohko stone... it's my favorite!
> Nice tanks. Love the CPD's. roud:


Thanks, guys!


----------



## Kazuya (Apr 4, 2011)

Videos look great. Tanks are very sick roud:
I like the ADA glass tops. Need to get me some of those.

Do you get a lot of light in from the window? Cause I noticed on the Mini L you have some algae on the right glass.

On a side note can you show me pics of your inline diffuser (how it's connected and which one)

Thanks T


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Kazuya said:


> Do you get a lot of light in from the window? Cause I noticed on the Mini L you have some algae on the right glass.


Yeah, that pane of glass gets quite a bit of algae from the sunlight. I try to keep the blinds on that window closed most of the time.




Kazuya said:


> On a side note can you show me pics of your inline diffuser (how it's connected and which one)


The diffuser is just a simple Ista/Waterfall one that I bought from eBay (around $8).

It's connected to the output of the Eheim 2211 canister filter. 

2211 :icon_arro Hydor heater :icon_arro CO2 diffuser :icon_arro Output lily pipe











In the Mini-L I'm using the Sera Aktiv 500 in-line reactor.

2213 :icon_arro Hydor heater :icon_arro CO2 reactor :icon_arro Output lily pipe


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Strange thing... I've just counted my CPDs and apparently there are 9 of them in the Mini-M. And this whole time I thought I had 8.

Here's a little video of them showing how active (if not a little spastic) they are.


----------



## Ben Belton (Dec 12, 2008)

Wow... it all looks nice. Wish I could find rocks like that.


----------



## spyke (Oct 14, 2010)

how many .lbs of ohko is that? I'm wanting to do a tank similar to yours...with ohko in a mini m...but i want both stem plants and hc....so I'm just curious


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

spyke said:


> how many .lbs of ohko is that? I'm wanting to do a tank similar to yours...with ohko in a mini m...but i want both stem plants and hc....so I'm just curious


I bought 15 lb. - 4 large pieces (one of which is unused, about 4-5 lb. in weight).

You can probably get away with about only 10 lb.


----------



## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

Pictures please!!!!


----------



## bsk (Aug 18, 2010)

I like the new layout much better. I wish I had the patients to plant my hc like that, I'm sure it will grow in very quickly.


----------



## aquaquang (Jun 17, 2008)

Awesome dude!

One question:
Where did you get the ADA tanks, light, lily pipes and especially Aquasoil in Canada? Because those stuffs are really hard to find overhere.


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

aquaquang said:


> Where did you get the ADA tanks, light, lily pipes and especially Aquasoil in Canada? Because those stuffs are really hard to find overhere.


The lily pipes I ordered from Cal Aqua Labs directly. All the ADA gear I ordered from Aqua Forest (www.adana-usa.com). You can get Aquasoil in Canada, but the prices even after shipping and duty from AFA were cheaper.


----------



## aquaquang (Jun 17, 2008)

TLE041 said:


> The lily pipes I ordered from Cal Aqua Labs directly. All the ADA gear I ordered from Aqua Forest (www.adana-usa.com). You can get Aquasoil in Canada, but the prices even after shipping and duty from AFA were cheaper.


How much did it cost you to order ADA equipment from US?

For first time, I just found an ADA distributor in Canada. Oh and it's real.


----------



## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

How do you like your CalAqua pipes? Everything I have ever ordered from CA has always had a very robust and quality feel. I know that I have dropped my oracle DC, nano DC and inline co2 diffuser many times and if I had cheaped out and gotten one of the eBay knock offs I certainly would have had many broken pieces of glass in my possession!


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

aquaquang said:


> How much did it cost you to order ADA equipment from US?


The prices are all posted on AFA's website. I spent a total of about $500 for everything, and shipping was about $90. 




aquaquang said:


> For first time, I just found an ADA distributor in Canada. Oh and it's real.


I assume you're referring to these people? The problem is that they're a wholesale importer and not a retailer, so there's an extra markup tacked on by whomever the end-seller is. That's on top of their already inflated prices. It makes more sense to purchase from the States IMO. 

For instance, look what one of their "authorized distributor" is charging for a bag of Aquasoil. That's twice as much as AFA.




bsmith said:


> How do you like your CalAqua pipes?


I'm very happy with the quality. I've accidentally broken Do!Aqua and ebay knockoff pipes in the past, but so far these have outlasted them all despite rigorous biweekly cleaning. I'm pretty impressed with the borosilicate glass that they use. Highly recommend these pipes!


----------



## aquaquang (Jun 17, 2008)

TLE041 said:


> The prices are all posted on AFA's website. I spent a total of about $500 for everything, and shipping was about $90.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah AFA charge for a bag of Aquasoil $28.00 + tax + shipping.
How about the Shipping cost from AFA to Canada? I believe it cost more than from Canada


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

aquaquang said:


> Yeah AFA charge for a bag of Aquasoil $28.00 + tax + shipping.
> How about the Shipping cost from AFA to Canada? I believe it cost more than from Canada


I only made large orders, so I'm not sure what they'd charge for just a bag. Their shipping prices were pretty reasonable IIRC. For one of my orders it was about $40 for 2' square heavy-ish box (containing the tank and rocks).

Since they're based in San Francisco, it'll definitely cost more than if it was sent from within Canada. The good thing is that there's no taxes (customs is hit and miss). Only go with USPS.


----------



## aquaquang (Jun 17, 2008)

TLE041 said:


> My 11 SS/SS+ CRS and 11 S/S+ CBS have arrived. They just finished their drip acclimation and got added to the tanks.
> 
> Kudos to Frank of the Shrimp Lab (Canadian side) for his excellent packaging. No DOAs at all.
> 
> ...


Where did u order those CRS grade SS? It looks the seller takes good care


----------



## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

That package with the shrimp and other goodies looks like it was fun to open and go through. I really enjoy getting new equipment/pants/animals/whatever that pertains to this hobby and then setting it up!


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

aquaquang said:


> Where did u order those CRS grade SS? It looks the seller takes good care


I got them from Frank (The Shrimp Lab in Canada). Both packages I received from him were incredibly well packed. This was shipped in February (ie. the dead of winter) and there were zero DOAs.



bsmith said:


> That package with the shrimp and other goodies looks like it was fun to open and go through. I really enjoy getting new equipment/pants/animals/whatever that pertains to this hobby and then setting it up!


Me too! It's like Christmastime for me!


----------



## Geniusdudekiran (Dec 6, 2010)

Update?


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

Geniusdudekiran said:


> Update?


Both tanks are being worked on right now.

Details to come...


----------



## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

I've somewhat restarted these two tanks again.

New updates here... http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/tank-journals-photo-album/153015-ada-mini-m-mini-l-iwagumi.html


----------

