# DSM - Dry Start Method, Month 2! HELP!



## Lucas754 (Jun 21, 2017)

Hi Guys, 
Long time reader first time poster, first time DSM. 

Iv recently setup a ADA 60p with ADA Amazonia Soil and no other fertilisers. 
My light cycle is around 13 Hours a day, running a ADA aquasky 601. 

I purchased 7 bunches of HC off Z-aquatics online. 
After about 3 weeks of the dry start, I found some leaves yellowing and dying off. 
This didn't concern me too much, as I could see the new growth coming through. 

Its now been about 2 months and iv found the new grown starting to die off and i appear to have very, very small spiderweb fungus? everywhere. 
I can also see a small amount of green algae growing on the rocks. 

Should I just flood this thing as new HC bunches should now been rooted? 

I feel like the whole thing is a mess... 


Please and help!


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## Smooch (May 14, 2016)

You're right in that you do have a mess on your hands. Do you have a cover for the tank or use one to keep moisture in?


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## Lucas754 (Jun 21, 2017)

Smooch said:


> You're right in that you do have a mess on your hands. Do you have a cover for the tank or use one to keep moisture in?


Yes, covered all day/night with cling wrap, then opened for 15/30min every evening for some fresh air. 
I HAVENT been misting daily as I read the yellowing could be caused from over watering. 
I really don't know where to go from here...


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## Smooch (May 14, 2016)

Lucas754 said:


> Yes, covered all day/night with cling wrap, then opened for 15/30min every evening for some fresh air.
> I HAVENT been misting daily as I read the yellowing could be caused from over watering.
> I really don't know where to go from here...


I'm guessing the plants were tissue culture?

I've never started a tank using the DSM method, but I do keep a emersed tank that I grow tissue culture plants in. The important part of getting these plants to grow is to maintain high humidity levels. In your pictures, I don't see any pooling of water, so that leads me to think that this is a moisture problem, or there lack of. Any 'fungus' that you might see is from the dead leaf matter combined with humidity. 

Where to go from here? I would start with cleaning out all the dead plant matter. Leaving it in there whether the tank is dry or flooded isn't going to help anything. As to whether to flood it or not, that is up to you. Flooding isn't going to hurt anything and would eliminate the guess work of whether the plants need water or not. Whether you can salvage what is left once the dead stuff is removed, I don't know. In my experience with tissue culture plants, it can be hit or miss. I have better luck buying these kinds of plants from Pet Smart than ordering them. The last batch I ordered, all of them died and they shouldn't have. 

I'm sure somebody else will have other ideas, but I would flood it if for no other reason than to get the tank up and running.


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

I might also reduce lighting period from 13 hour's to eight in addition to Smooch's advice.


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## Smooch (May 14, 2016)

For whatever it is worth, I leave the lights on over my emersed tank for anywhere from 10-12 hours a day. I'm not really sure if the photo period is relevant or not. The only time I've had issues with plants when grown out this way was because the plants were not healthy to begin with. Unhealthy plants can be brought back, but sometimes they are past the point of return.


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

My bad,I meant reduce lighting assuming OP was gonna flood the tank as was suggested.
Once plant's become submerged,they will instantly see great reduction in CO2 .(atmospheric)
Until such time as I could get CO2 injection dialed in,I would not want 13 hour photoperiod
Just sayin


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## Dman911 (Nov 24, 2016)

IMO during DSM its important to keep the water just below the substrate and the substrate moist, natural absorption will wick the water up. If there is too much humidity it will almost certainly will lead to mold. Plants that can grow emersed will adapt and while humidity is important very high humidity is likely to have negative effects like mold. If you are completely sealing the tank it can have a negative effect in terms of Co2. The plants can use up all of the Co2 leaving a deficiency and could result in what you are seeing in terms of yellowing and plant health. I'm guessing if the growth started off well and then declined as the plants grew it could mean this was the case as the increased plant mass will use more Co2. If you are going to completely seal a tank for humidity reasons you may want to look at adding Co2 injection. Personally I did my DSM leaving about 1/4 of the back open for air exchange (for air flow) and water about 1/2" below the top of the substrate, and had no issues as far as declining plant health or mold. IMO I feel that completely sealing a tank for DSM is not only unnecessary but also can have negative effects.

Added: Also I was able to run an 18 hr photo period with no issues. 

Just my thoughts on the matter.

Dan


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## Smooch (May 14, 2016)

OP allows air into his tank by removing the saran wrap.

I open the lid to my emersed tank daily to allow fresh air in as it is necessary. Nobody said anything ( or suggested) keeping a DSM or emersed tank completely sealed. 

How do we get to these points in conversation?


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## Dman911 (Nov 24, 2016)

Smooch said:


> OP allows air into his tank by removing the saran wrap.
> 
> I open the lid to my emersed tank daily to allow fresh air in as it is necessary. Nobody said anything ( or suggested) keeping a DSM or emersed tank completely sealed.
> 
> How do we get to these points in conversation?


OP says in post 3 sealed with cling wrap. Am I not entitled to my opinion? You don't have to agree, I am simply sharing my thoughts on the matter. While its opened daily I would say its possible to deplete adequate Co2 over 24 hrs depending on the plant mass and photo period. Do you disagree?

This is how we get to these points of topic and just because you don't feel its relevant doesn't make it such. No need for an attitude as I stated IMO (in my opinion) what makes your opinion worth more than others? If it turns out its not completely sealed so be it no loss but if it is completely sealed for the 24 hr duration between opening I would say its very relevant to consider.

Added: Not to mention your claims about needing to keep very high humidity I completely disagree with and time and time again people end up with mold from this

Dan


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## Smooch (May 14, 2016)

This is going as I expected.

Maybe instead of telling people that they are not allowing fresh air into their emersed tank or DSM set up, perhaps you should ask. Or act like a bear in a china shop, because that always works well.


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## Dman911 (Nov 24, 2016)

Smooch said:


> This is going as I expected.
> 
> Maybe instead of telling people that they are not allowing fresh air into their emersed tank or DSM set up, perhaps you should ask. Or act like a bear in a china shop, because that always works well.


Did you even read my post? I'm not telling anyone anything!!! I sharing my thoughts on the matter and you go off crying about how we even get to these types of conversations. Where in the hell did I tell anybody what to do?

On the other hand read your post and how condescending it was to my what I clearly stated were opinion and thoughts on the matter? Who is the bull in the china shop here? Are you serious?

So you don't think if the tank was completely sealed for 24hrs depending on plant mass and photo period it could deplete adequate Co2 levels in 24 hrs?

And ditto on the expected part. I didn't dispute any of what you said but you feel the need to go off on people because they state other opinions of what may be the cause. I see this time and time again from you.

Dan


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## IntotheWRX (May 13, 2016)

Lucas754 said:


> Hi Guys,
> Long time reader first time poster, first time DSM.
> 
> Iv recently setup a ADA 60p with ADA Amazonia Soil and no other fertilisers.
> ...


I can't figure out whats wrong. My best guess is that your tank is too wet and humid. When doing the dry start method, you should not seal your tank 100%. Leave a little opening. Maybe the size of a quarter or a fun size candy bar so that nature can still do its thing. It's not a bad idea to give it that 15-30 min breathing period. I think at this point you can flood your tank and get the show started. The dry start method isn't suppose to speed up your growth by 2x so don't hang on to it too tightly. Think it's time to move on.


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## Lucas754 (Jun 21, 2017)

Thanks for all the advice guys, and the quick replies! 

Appreciate it. 

I will: 
- cut away the dead matter. 
- flood the tank. 
- dial in/set up the Co2 
- reduce light cycle 

All my equipment it set up waiting to go.

I'll give it a few weeks and perhaps post an update. 

Thanks again.


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## jflng (Apr 5, 2007)

You need more air flow. Stick a small computer fan in the tank. 
I've done this countless times, and the fan makes a real difference.


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## Lucas754 (Jun 21, 2017)

Hey Team! 
Hope we're all well. 

One week in post flooding.
I have cut down the light cycle, (6 hours a day) blasting Co2 (24hours a day) and doing 1/3'rd water changes daily. 

The HC has greened up allot and definitely grown. 
However, I have struggled to cut out the dead/melted parts of the plant due to new growth being tangled up with the dead/melted sections. 

From this, I believe I'm getting a pretty bad algae problem (even with the large water changes)

Will the new sections of the HC eventually 'over grow' the melted sections, and the melted sections just simply breakdown/disintegrate?

See what you guys think with the pictures below. 
Sorry about all the 'noob' questions, iv been searching/reading this site allot, but can't seem to get straight answers.

I also found small white worms in my substrate. 
again, with some searching, I really couldn't find a straight answer.


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## aquaoz (Jul 17, 2019)

@Lucas754 How are you going with this?


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## mikeyboy (Oct 20, 2019)

Smooch said:


> I'm guessing the plants were tissue culture?
> 
> I've never started a tank using the DSM method, but I do keep a emersed tank that I grow tissue culture plants in. The important part of getting these plants to grow is to maintain high humidity levels. In your pictures, I don't see any pooling of water, so that leads me to think that this is a moisture problem, or there lack of. Any 'fungus' that you might see is from the dead leaf matter combined with humidity.
> 
> ...


Actually youre wrong. Flooding the tank brings about major changes. Co2 deilvery being one of them and also for PAR for lighting. Also if the plants need current or not. A flooded tank is a whole different world from DSM. Learn your [censored][censored][censored][censored] before you go giving advice to people who dont know any better.


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