# Immortal1 75g journey (Crinum Flower)



## burr740

Looks really nice. But man, drilling those hardwood floors......that is dedication


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## Immortal1

LOL, not as much dedication as you might think 

The duct into the living room is 2"x12". The metal cover over the duct is 4" tall by 18" long.
If I ever remove the tanks and stand, I only need to remove the piping and re-install the original vent cover - you will never know there was holes in the floor. In this pic you can see the original vent cover.


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## burr740

Oh, I get it. Yeah that is not as bad as I first thought.


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## BoxxerBoyDrew

VERY NICE to have water and a drain at your tank stand!!! Only thing I am wondering about is where is the stand pipe/floor drain going? If it is going into sewer line you will need a p/s trap in the drain line to prevent sewer gas from entering the house! If it is just under the house you could cause a mold/mildew problem if you do a lot of water changes or the humidity is high in your area. 

Other than that everything looks great! MAN I WISH I had that much room under my house!!! We have less than half that much, so there is no way my broke back butt is squeezing under there! LOL

You have picked out some very nice drift wood pieces too! The plants look nice and healthy too! Did you get them locally? If so it must be nice to have a LFS with plants a large drift wood that nice! 

Anyway have fun with the 75g, and all the excitement that comes with beginning a new tank!

Take Care,
Drew


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## Immortal1

Thanks burr & Drew for the comments. Drew, the stand pipe drains down into the sump pit that is in the crawlspace under the house (second pic). From there it is discharged outside the house. 

We have 2 LFS here that have HUGE amounts of drift wood on display. The one LFS does only freshwater which is really nice. They typically stock a lit of various plants and a huge assortment of fish. And when I say huge....








LOL


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## andrewss

very nice custom work! looks great


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## The Dude

Tank looks awesome and that setup is really nice! The driftwood really works well.. what do you plan to stock?


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## Immortal1

Thanks Dude. Will likely move my black skirt, serpea, and phantom Tetras from the 20H to the 75 once it settles down. Planning on adding some emerald green rainbow fish and some rams once the tank has been running smoothly few months. The 20H will likely get a bunch of tiger barbs (wife's favorite fish) to go with the various cory cats, bushy nose, and panda garra's.

As for plants, don't know yet. Still working thru building a co2 system. I did just get a Current USA Satellite + Pro for the 75 - wow, that is a nice lite!


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## Immortal1

Seems I might have a bit of an odd ball plant in my tank. According to the LFS, I have an *Anubias Nangi* (back left corner, right behind the Red Dwarf Lilies). Have done some research on this but did not find much information. Anybody here on the Forum have anything to add about this plant? Was kinda surprised when I noticed the flower forming.


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## Immortal1

Small update - wood work is basically finished. Still need to add a few more coats of polyurethane in certain areas, but you get the basic idea.


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## Immortal1

Small update - Got FISH!!!! Tank now has the following;
1 Bushy nose pleco
3 Big mystery snails
5 Black Skirt Tetras
6 Albino Cory Cats
6 Black Phantom Tetras
9 Serpea Tetras

Lot of fun watching them school around in various groups. 

Should be stepping up to some pressurized cO2 in a week or so - wish me luck


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## Immortal1

New tank mates!!! Picked up 4 rainbow fish today from the LFS. Really like the coloring on the males - especially under the brite LED light. From what I can determine, these are Desert Rainbow Fish - Melanotaenia splendida tatei


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## sprint_9

Do you happen to have the name and town the fish stores are in. Im also in Iowa and dont have many options where Im at.


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## andrewss

impressive display area in the living room!


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## Immortal1

Sprint
Place called ROE in Rock Island, IL
Aquatic Enviroments in Davenport, IA

Andrew, thanks!


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## Kindafishy

Wow, some local compatriots!

Teske's has some interesting fish as well. They have locations in Davenport, IA and Moline, IL.


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## Immortal1

Finally decided to post a small update. Been working on learning to grow plants and added a few more fish. Dwarf lily is growing like mad for some reason. Still trying to figure out why they call it dwarf, lol. Regardless, on to the pic


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## Immortal1

https://youtu.be/-qJUtMNr3Io

Finally got around to shooting a decent video of the tank with my cell phone (sorry for the quality). Kind of a progress video to look back on 

https://youtu.be/doXfS75XKDk

Kinda a nice video of the various fish in the tank.


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## Immortal1

Been a bit of time since I updated this thread so I figured I had better add a new pic. Everything has definitely grown in. Been trimming the Amazon Sword back atleast once a week. The crypts in the front right corner have filled in nicely. My java fern in the front left corner is nice and green. The wisteria in the back left really should be pruned back a bit but oh well


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## Immortal1

Some various videos of my 75 gallon tank. p.s., please ignore the TV playing in the background LOL and also the Table lamp reflections (yes, I suck at doing professional videos).

Feeding Time - what do you think? Too much food? Video is only 58 seconds long. By the time 2 minutes have passed there is really no visible food left.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wk-MI0YsYpg

Fat SAE - what do you think? Is this a female or am I over feeding them?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpK9Yh4k-vU


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## Black Hills Hillbilly

LOVE the setup! I'm waiting on some disability back-pay from the VA & we'll have our house paid off, just to turn around & have one built. Our living room will have built-ins for 4-6 120-H's. I'll be a busy man!


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## sohankpatel

What brand drop checker do you use?, i wish i didnt have to lug 5-gallon buckets around, but my tank is on the 2nd floor, so i cant run a drain pipe  or water pipes


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## Immortal1

sohankpatel said:


> What brand drop checker do you use?, i wish i didnt have to lug 5-gallon buckets around, but my tank is on the 2nd floor, so i cant run a drain pipe  or water pipes


Drop checker is a Cal Aqua Labs unit. Sorry to hear about your lack of options, was worth the effort in my case.


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## Immortal1

Another update video of the tank. Am amazed how much things have grown in just 2 months. The blyxa haponica hase gotten much larger and the java fern in the front left is also much fuller. Seems like once or twice a week I am cutting our Amazon sword leaves. Did not realize then grow so fast. Anyway, enough rambling, onto the show...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGBomlW1wi8


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## Jcstank

May I suggest you make those plugs under your fish tanks GFCI receptacles for your own protection and your fishes too. You can change the circuit breaker out for one that serves also as a GFCI breaker. A GFCI receptacle needs good grounding too, so make sure you have that right or they wont work correctly and protect you. I have witnessed what 120 volts can do to someone and am a firm believer in GFCI receptacles. 120 volts will short circuit your nervous system freezing your muscles and paralyzing that part of your body leaving you immobilized as it cooks your muscles from the inside out and eventually kills you.


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## Immortal1

LOL, guess I have not looked at or updated this in awhile. FYI jcstank, all the electrical under the tanks are routed to a GFCI breaker that is mounted under the outside corner of the adjacent 40g tank. From there the power comes from a dedicated circuit located just outside the footprint of the tanks.
I am ok with eating fish - but definitely did not "cook" or zap the fish in my tanks


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## Immortal1

Well, according to @Greggz it's about time I updated my build thread instead of commenting on everybody elses threads 
Currently working on getting my ferts back in order (or maybe getting my plants to be happy with what I am giving them). At one point I was pretty certain I was overdosing the micros. So, after getting that mess worked out I decided (according to the always accurate API Nitrate test) that I was dosing too much macros so I reduced the KNO3 dose to nothing (the others were bumped up a bit). Well, I finally figured out I was starving my poor plants so now I am back to hopefully back to dosing the correct micros and macros. I also decided to take after Gregg and throw in some pics of the beautiful fish along with a full tank shot of the plants 

The Yellow Rainbowfish (Melanotaenia herbertaxelrodi) are coloring up nicely









The New Guinea Red Rainbow (Glossolepis incisus) are not even 1 year old and looking pretty damn good!









My albino corys are always a barrel of laughs. Pretty sure they are blind cause nothing bothers them and they will swim into just about anything LOL









And here are my 2 big boys. Still working out the pecking order - usually on a daily basis. FYI, they are Desert Rainbowfish (Melanotaenia splendida tatei)









And just really liked this pic. Was surprised how many different fish I got in this pic. (can you see at lease 12?)









And I suppose this post would not be complete with out this girl









And of course, a nice full tank shot to finish things off.


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## burr740

Looking sweet! I like the crypts in front, and the balansae (or what ever that is) is really cool


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## Greggz

The whole tank is looking great, both fish and fauna. 

The Herbertaxelrodi and the Incisus have really colored up. And the Splendida's look like they have really filled in, and are just looking great.

If you get time, I'd like to hear more about your dosing , and where you are at with it now. I am experimenting a bit myself, and always curious to see what is (or isn't) working for others. 

And if your plants keep growing like that, your Rainbows won't have any room left to swim.:laugh2::laugh2:


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## Jaye

Beautiful fish and tank!


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## Immortal1

@burr740 - the plant I think you are referring to is a Crinum calamistratum. And thanks for the compliments!

@Greggz - right now I am dosing a somewhat modified PPS Pro method. The micros are dosed daily (1mL per 10 gallons) with a goal of .12ppm weekly FE using CSM+B. As for the macros, I am using
KH2PO4_Add 4 gm to 500ML, KNO3_Add 33 gm to 500ML, K2SO4_Add 40 gm to 500ML, MGSO4_Add 20 gm to 500ML and dosing about 1.5mL per 10 gallons daily. If you look at the plants in the 3rd and 5th pics above you can see some pretty rough looking old growth. The new growth is looking much better.
@Jaye - Thank-you!


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## Smooch

Pretty tank, love the bows!


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## Immortal1

Figured I would give a small update to this journal. Fish are doing great. Plants, well most are doing good and some are doing better. I seem to do very well at growing Amazon sword, Melon sword, Crypt wendii, Java fern and Anubias barterii. Both Crinum (calamistratum & thaianum) seem to be doing pretty good as well. The Dwarf red lily is in there somewhere - shooting up runners on a regular basis. The AR Mini is a pita - it grows but looks like crap.  The newest growth is looking better so hopefully I am doing something right. The Ludwigia sp red also grows well - I am finally learning how to trim it to look better. The Rotala is looking better than it has - at least it's growing.
Then there is the new kid on the block - Mermaid weed from GreggZ. Still young but looking good so far. Thankyou Gregg!

75g video - 10/23/2016


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## Immortal1

https://youtu.be/v9gjDYkk838
Well this is interesting - I am now dosing around 2/3 to 3/4 EI level of ferts, 30ppm co2, and have the lights on full power. First time I have ever seen this much (really any) pearling. 
Should have moved to EI levels a long time ago.


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## Greggz

Hey Linn that's great to hear. Sounds a lot like my recent experience. My plants didn't like going lean. More of everything and they are happy again.

The tank is looking great, and the Rainbows continue to mature. You need a longer video next time.

And Merry Christmas to you and your family!


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## Immortal1

Thanks @Greggz! Once I get rid of the "ugly" plant parts in my tank and get it looking beautiful again I will definitely post up a longer video. Learned something yesterday - thought my single amazon sword was dying as I had many leaves rotting off at the base and floating to the surface (might have been from lean mixture). So, while pruning off the last of the ugly leaves I realized there are what looks like 3 distinct sword plants back there. Wow! Anyway, the pearl weed is looking better. Main part of each leaf is getting thicker and the overall diameter of each new layer is getting bigger so I feel the new fert routine is definitely a better way to go.
Not sure on the Ludwigia Red - it seems to be doing better as well. As for the AR mini, the tops are looking good - just have to give it a few more weeks to see if I will actually be able to properly grow them (well, not like Burr but better than I have in the past LOL).

Merry Christmas!


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## Immortal1

Well, seeing as this is the start of a new year and the fact that I did promise to upload a better video, I figured I had better get busy with the camera (cell phone).

Linn's 75 Gallon rainbow tank - This video has a maximum setting of 1080p at 60 fps - if you internet connection can handle it.

As for the plants;

My crypt bronze was looking a little rough after I removed and sold off about 60% of what I had. I now see a bunch of new leaves sprouting up so I can only assume it is happy once again.

My Melon & Amazon swords are once again sprouting nice new leaves now that I have switched over to full EI dosing.

What I currently have of the True Rotala indica pretty much looks like crap. I will likely pull it all out when the weather gets warmer and I can buy some more ( @burr740 )

I am not going to say I have won my battle with the Alternanthera reineckii cardinalis but the tops that I re-planted are looking much better.

As for the Ludwigia sp red - the top 3-4" is looking very good and growing pretty fast. I am hoping to build up a much better grouping of this plant!

The Anubias Barterii is pretty much always happy. In the last 4 months I probably have removed atleast 6" of total rhizome from the two that are down there somewhere.

The Java fern & Crinum calamistratum seem a little more difficult to tell if they are happy with the EI dosing. They just seem to slowly grow no mater what.

Now, my newest addition is the mermaid weed from @Greggz - it started out a little rough but lately I have noticed the leaves are fattening up and spreading out more. Pretty sure it will live 

As for the fish - well, they were pretty much the highlight of the video. For those who might ask, I have the following;

Desert Rainbowfish (Melanotaenia splendida tatei) - 2 males (my big boys) and 3 females.

Yellow Rainbowfish (Melanotaenia herbertaxelrodi) - 2 males (amazed at how bright the yellow is) and 3 females. (Males have the bright orange tails, females have clear tails)

New Guinea Red Rainbow (Glossolepis incisus) - 2 males (they get very red when they are happy) and 2 females. (Females look more like a dirty gold color)

Panda Garra (Garra flavatra) - 3 total, boy, girl, ? have no idea.

Albino Aeneus Cory Cat (Corydoras aeneus) - 5 total. I think 2 are females.

Bushy Nose Pleco (Ancistrus sp. L144) - 2 males.

Bushy Nose Pleco (Ancistrus sp.) - 1 female.

Black Skirt Tetra (Gymnocorymbus ternetzi) - 4 of my original fish.

Serpae Tetra (Hyphessobycon eques) - 6 of my original fish.

Siamese Algea Eater (Crossocheilus siamensis) - 2. Guessing 1 male and 1 female.

Thats pretty much it for the update. Big thankyou to TPT - have learned a lot in the last year!


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## burr740

Stay on the grind man! 

Looking forward to see the newest rendition!


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## Greggz

Nice update Linn. Tank is looking great, and your Rainbows are getting to a nice impressive size.

Will be interested to hear follow ups on your new dosing. Glad to hear some plants have responded well, hopefully it continues for you. I see that Mermaid Weed is still hanging on. When it gets nearer the light it should really take off. 

Keep the updates coming.


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## Immortal1

Note really an update, just wanted a good place for some information. 
dGH-16, dKH-8, Ca-100ppm, Mg-20ppm (5:1) before water change. Approximately 60 gallons water in tank. Drained 30 gallons of water.
Added 5 gallons distilled water and 25 gallons tap water. Also added 4 tsp MGSO4 (+2.07dGH, +9ppm Mg, +11.9 S).
dGH-14, dKH-8, Ca-100ppm, Mg-40ppm (2.5:1) AFTER water change. No additional MGSO4 @ next water change. Re-Test Mg after 2 weeks.


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## Immortal1

Been taking pictures on a regular basis of my various fish and plants. Every once in a while I run across what I feel is a good pic so I figured I would share 








So, are you new here?


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## Greggz

Great shot Linn!

Good looking Bow, and that is one the best pictures I've seen of a BN.

Keep them coming.


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## Immortal1

Thank-you Gregg! Can't remember if I ever posted one of these pics but figured I would add it to this collection 
For some reason my other BN pleco likes laying on his back while dining on cucumber. Silly fish.


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## Immortal1

Good morning everyone! Was pretty bored yesterday sitting at how so I decided to take a few pics of the fish in my tank. Well as some of you know, that can take more time than you would think to get a few good shots. Especially when you are using your cell phone LOL. Anyway, here is what I came up with...








Melanotaenia splendida tatei - Male, Pretty much the biggest of my rainbows.









Melanotaenia splendida tatei - Female, figured I would include what the girls look like.









Melanotaenia herbertaxelrodia - Male, The 2 males of this group have colored up very nicely.









Melanotaenia herbertaxelrodia - Female, The girls are not as colorful but I still enjoy having them in the tank.









Glossolepis incisus - Male, These guy get serious bright red when the get frisky with the girls!









Glossolepis incisus - Femal, The girls of this group have a more gold color to them - oh well.









Marci Rainbow - Male. Found out after my purchase that this is a Hybred fish (oops). Will have to see how he colors up in the coming months.









Overly bright Flower shrimp (bamboo shrimp?). I'm sure these guys have a scientific name, just never bothered to look it up.









Garra flavatrac, My tank simply would not be complete with out these 3 characters - lot of fun to watch.

Will see if I can get some pics of the newest plant growth in the next post.


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## Greggz

Nice pictures Immortal1. 

Your male Splendida and Herbert have filled out and are displaying mature colors in all their glory. Your Incisus looks great too, but he's got quite a ways to go yet. He'll get much taller and rounder over time. 

It's nice you showed the females too, as you don't often see pics of them.


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## Immortal1

Ok, as promised I will be adding some current "plant pics" to my Planted Tank thread 

Awhile ago I got some really nice plants from Burr740. Unfortunately I was not dosing my tank then as well as I am today so I lost most of what I got :-(
But, I do still have Ludwigia Red and it is now doing very nicely. The first pic is an overhead showing what I can only assume is a very healthy happy plant.









And this pic kinda gives you a bit of a before / after. The old leaves look like crap but at least the plant was growing. The old leaves are also part of a stem that has been topped several times - The most recent 2 toppings are what you see in the previous pic. And after less than a week I have this nice new growth.









One of the other plants I got from Burr740 was some Mermaid weed. Unfortunately I lost all of what he gave me, likely because I did not know what I was doing then. Fast forward several months and I get some more Mermaid weed from Greggz (who I believe got his from Burr740). Now I have 2 very nice stems growing with a 3rd starting in at the bottom (very happy). I also noticed for the first time I have a bunch of roots developing in the lower section of the stems. 









(Will add more as the day goes on)


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## Immortal1

Well, I guess I did not get any more done yesterday LOL. So, there is always today.
Anyway, I spent some time trying to figure out how I could post a pic of the Crinum calamistratum and in the end I figured it would have to be a full tank shot and another pic just to give you an idea just how big this thing is.

















Now I don't know it you would call these leaves, but several of them are more than 36" long (FYI its about 18" from the top of the tank to the substraight and the plant is closer to the back of the the tank than the front).

I did pick stop by the local PetSmart last Sunday and found a TopFin Dwarf Rotala hanging on the plant section. Still had a decent amount of moisture in the package so I figure what the heck.
I tried just putting it into the substraight but that just did not last very long. So, I DIY'd a pair of hanging planters LOL. The Eco-Complete seems a bit course for these little plants so I tried using some regular playground sand in one of the planters. We'll see what works better with regards to holding the plants where they are supposed to be. Hopefully I will get a decent grouping of stems after a month or so.









Also figured I would get a pic of one of my older plants - the good old dwarf water lily or red lotus (not sure what the correct name is). Got this as a bulb a long time ago. Since then it has looked very happy, and nearly dead but for whatever reason it just keeps coming back. The surface lily pads get a bit annoying (usually trim those off) but the big leaves like in the picture can look very nice. Also in the picture is some dwarf water lettuce I thru in from my 20g low tech tank. Kinda an experiment I guess. In my low tech tank with a simple HOB filter it takes maybe a month to go from 10-20% coverage to nearly 100% coverage. In the past when I put some in my 75g high tech tank it did nothing. We'll see if it does any better this time around.


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## Greggz

That Crinum calamistratum looks like it might be able to strangle someone. Be careful when you put your hands in there!:grin2:

Those are also some massive Crypts and Swords. If they keep growing like that, there will be no room left for the fish!

You know there is only one solution.......get a bigger tank.:laugh2:


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## Immortal1

Something else I have been wanting to actually do for some time now is measure just how fast my Cerges reactor actually lowers the pH in my tank. I tell everybody about 2 hours but that was always just a guess (sorry guys). So, anyway onto the hard data.
75 gallon tank with about 60 gallons of actual water column
Eheim Pro 4+, Model 350 canister filter (not a huge amount of flow)
7.6ph in 20 gallon storage tank (air stone running, water roughly aged 36 hours)
7.3ph @ 10:00am - Beginning pH in the 75 gallon tank. CO2 turned on at 10:01am
7.1ph @ 10:15am - Impressive for 15 minutes
7.0ph @ 10:30am - 
6.9ph @ 11:00am - 
6.8ph @ 11:30am - 
6.7ph @ 12:00pm - 
6.6ph @ 12:30pm - 
6.6ph @ 01:00pm - 
6.5ph @ 01:30pm - Milwaukee controller set at 6.5ph. So, I am guessing the controller will shut things off if it goes any lower.
6.5ph @ 02:00pm - 
6.4ph @ 02:30pm - Milwaukee controller shut off co2 flow.

So, I guess it is closer to 3 hours before I get a 1 point ph drop from the fully degassed starting point. Oh well 

Bump:


Greggz said:


> That Crinum calamistratum looks like it might be able to strangle someone. Be careful when you put your hands in there!:grin2:
> 
> Those are also some massive Crypts and Swords. If they keep growing like that, there will be no room left for the fish!
> 
> You know there is only one solution.......get a bigger tank.:laugh2:


LOL, there are days that I would like a bigger tank. But, for now this will have to do. As for the Crypts, I have probably given away 6-8 times as much as what you see in the tank now. When things get a little too bushy in my tank or hers, I just start pulling big chunks out and take them over to my favorite LFS. Once in a while I give some to the daughter (she's not quit as good as I am when it comes to growing plants).

As for the Crinum calamistratum, it is an interesting plant to "work around" when doing maintenance.


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## Immortal1

Added 2 new fish pics to post 45 - Marci Rainbow (new purchase) and a pic of the Flower shrimp all colored up.
Finally trimmed the Mermaid weed. Moved the tops and bottoms to a new location after I pulled out almost 50% of the crypts in the right front corner.
Spent a little time thinning out the poor looking portions of the AR and filling in various sections of the Ludwigia red.
The Dwarf Rotala in the cups has certainly done well - will probably have to figure out where I am going to put them in the tank 




























And I figured I would end the post with the good old FTS. At least the tank does not looks so full in the middle front like it used to.


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## theDCpump

Do you happen to work for a news station?

I'm getting some gut feeling you may have many leather-bound books and the apartment smells of rich mahogany.
-Burgundy reference.




Immortal1 said:


> LOL, not as much dedication as you might think
> 
> The duct into the living room is 2"x12". The metal cover over the duct is 4" tall by 18" long.
> If I ever remove the tanks and stand, I only need to remove the piping and re-install the original vent cover - you will never know there was holes in the floor. In this pic you can see the original vent cover.


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## BettaBettas

Tank is looking good, and the plants inside it


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## Greggz

Immortal1 good to see an update from you. The Bows and plants are looking great. 

I like it better thinned out a bit. Still a jungle with some big swords and ferns, just tamed a little.

It will be interesting to see how that Marci turns out. 

And I like your dosing right on the front of the tank. Reminds me of my wife, she has sticky notes all over the house all the time. 

What is the meter just to the left of the sticky note? Looks like it's reading 1508?


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## Immortal1

@theDCpump - lol, I do not work for a news station. But I am pretty fond of various types of hard wood. @BettaBettas - Thank you! @Greggz - Thank you as well! I am liking the somewhat thinned out look as well. Poor wifes tank seemed to be getting over run by Crypts - she is much happier now that I pulled almost 50% of the bunch out. And who knows about the Marci - could be the best looking fish in the tank in a few years ;-) The dosing on the tank was kinda necessitated by my spending a bunch of days in the hospital. Figured it was the easiest way for the wife to remember what to do. As for the meter, that is the controller for the Satellite Plus Pro. Pretty sure it was about 3:08 (1508) when the pic was taken.


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## Immortal1

Finally topped the Mermaid weed (was getting pretty tall). Moved the bottoms and tops over towards the Crypts (better location I think). The bottoms are now sprouting new growth so very happy about that.
Figured I would also get a current full tank shot seeing as the room was nice and dark


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## Greggz

Nice FTS Immortal1! Sometimes things just work out right with the lighting and colors, and you captured it there.

How long did it take you to train those Rainbows to pose for the picture in the center of the tank? :wink2:


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## Immortal1

LOL, shear *LUCK* on getting the bows in the middle.


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## burr740

Tank looks great man. So bright and colorful!


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## BettaBettas

Liking what your doing with the tank, truly progressing over time.


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## Immortal1

BettaBettas said:


> Liking what your doing with the tank, truly progressing over time.


I don't want to brag, but I think I just might be learning something from the rest of you


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## BettaBettas

update? You cant hide form us! lol!


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## Immortal1

So true - I can't hide ;-)
I do want to take another FTS after I trim things up but I simply ran out of time this past weekend. I did have to chuckle over the weekend when the wife was sitting in front of out tanks holding Harry our bearded dragon. He seems very interested in "fish TV". So tonite I grabbed one of the spare 10 gallon tanks, fashioned an improvised stand and tossed Harry in the empty tank. After about 10-15 minutes of figuring out where he was he turned towards the fish and has been propped up watching them for about an hour. Could not pass up the chance to post a pic of that one.


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## Greggz

Great picture Linn! It's an interesting perspective.

I'm sure he's trying to figure out how to get to that tasty looking meal!


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## burr740

Haha, that's awesome, enraptured like a kitty cat


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## sdwindansea

I love that picture but I think he is trying to figure out the dosing schedule/amounts...


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## Greggz

sdwindansea said:


> I love that picture but I think he is trying to figure out the dosing schedule/amounts...


If he could read it would be easy.........they are taped to front of the tank!:wink2:


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## Immortal1

So, recently I received some really nice cuttings from @OreoP and over the weekend was able to make some changes to the 75g tank. The monstrous Anubias / Dwarf lily (I list them together as they were pretty much inseparable) that has lived in the back left of the tank was pulled and taken to my favorite LFS. Needless to say they were happy with the donation. I then cleaned up the Java fern a bunch and pushed it back to the back left corner (lighting along the back of the tank is less PAR than the front of the tank). This gave me a whole bunch of room up front to play around with. Now, I will be honest, I am no "grouping" expert here when it comes to aquascaping. Just trying to get roots and plants to grow and look healthy. I still have several more plants to place in either this tank or the wifes 40g tank but figured for now this would make a good update.










And of course, no update is complete without a FTS


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## Greggz

Immortal1 looking good. My guess is the more success you have with those stems, the more changes we'll see with your tank. You are taking another step into the collectoritis stage of the hobby. The next sign will be when are ordering plants you don't even have room for. Welcome to the club.


----------



## OreoP

@Immortal1 Nice to see the plants in a good shape after the USPS mishap!!
@Greggz I have already been hit by the "collectoritis" bug. Have way too many plants for the 65gal. Went to the LFS today...hoping to set up a 125gal soon...planted with Rainbows. Getting inspiration from you and @burr740 and a lot of fellow TPT members. Thank you for the fantastic journals!


----------



## burr740

Getting more bright and colorful all the time. Looking good man!

Thanks @OreoP , lots of great journals around here to inspire and teach us all something.


----------



## Greggz

OreoP said:


> @Greggz I have already been hit by the "collectoritis" bug. Have way too many plants for the 65gal. Went to the LFS today...hoping to set up a 125gal soon...planted with Rainbows. Getting inspiration from you and @burr740 and a lot of fellow TPT members. Thank you for the fantastic journals!


125G planted Rainbow tank....now you're talkin'! I know a thing or two about Rainbows, but I'd definitely go with Burr on the plants. Looking forward to seeing what you do, and of course start a journal on the new tank so we can follow along.

And by the way @Immortal1, if I were to make a prediction, I think I see an even larger tank in your future! You know it's just a matter of time, might as well give in and get it going.


----------



## Immortal1

Time for an update, lots of pictures, and "questions". Will start of with an overall shot of the left side and the right side (just to set the mood)

















All things considered, not looking too bad. Now for some more detailed pics (and of course questions)









What the heck is this plant? The stems seem small and relatively stiff in comparison to the other stems. The new growth at the top seems very small and so far, this has had pretty slow growth. Most of the leaves that were on the plant when I got it seem to be getting covered with algae.









This is my Ludwigia SP Red. Lately this plant has been a pretty good grower. It does not color up as nicely as Burr's plants, but I don't have that much PAR either. My question is does the new growth look correct? (still trying to zero in on my ferts).









This is my Bocapa caroliniana - I really am liking this plant, mostly because it seems to really like my tank! Again, the question is does the new growth seem correct?









Good old mermaid weed (Proserpinaca palustris) - thankyou Gregg! Stuff is really taking off and doing nicely. Any thoughts on how the leaves look> I can see some of the older leaves are getting some GSA - have not adjusted my P dosing or checked the P level lately to be honest. Probably should.









The Rotala rotundifolia I got from PetSmart several months ago. Very small culture plants. Now I seem to be growing it pretty fast which is nice. New growth is basically green, old growth seems to be getting a bit of a brown tinge to it - not sure what that is indicating.









And might as well end with a FTS. Funny, I always seems to take pictures right after I stir things up in the tank and make a mess. Oh well.


----------



## Greggz

Hey Linn good to see an update on the stems.

What you refer to as L. Sp. Red, looks like L. Sp. Rubin to me. It looks nice and healthy, and the color looks much like mine before I increased my lighting. Same goes for the Rotala and Mermaid Weed. Both look healthy but mostly green. Both will get more color with more PAR. 

The Bacopa will do quite well in Med/low light, and you're right it looks happy there.

Based on my experience, you can get along and grow most things quite nicely with your light. Might tweak ferts and CO2, and be perfectly happy. As far as bringing out more color, I agree with you, it's really a matter of PAR.

Either way, tank is looking great, and the Bows look good too!


----------



## PEdwards

Lookin' good Linn! Once that Ludwigia gets going you can trim the hell out of it and get rid of that algae. Love that Crinum!!!!!!


----------



## burr740

Yeah that's the rubin. It looks really healthy. That color is normal under moderate lighting, same deal with the bacopa and mermaid weed.

The "what is it" plant looks like sp red, but it's kinda hard to tell


----------



## Immortal1

burr740 said:


> Yeah that's the rubin. It looks really healthy. That color is normal under moderate lighting, same deal with the bacopa and mermaid weed.
> 
> The "what is it" plant looks like sp red, but it's kinda hard to tell


From what OreoP posted, thats what I was thinking - sp red. Definitely hard to tell at the moment, but it is definitely different from any other plants I have. Will keep monitoring it and see how it does.

Seeing as I have now heard form the 3 most trusted members I "know", I guess I will keep my fert dosing the same for a few more weeks. I am going to bump both lights to maximum and see what happens (Current Satellite Plus in back, Current Satellite Plus Pro in the front). Will either get more GSA / BBA or healthier plants - might as well try :grin2:
The Amazon sword is getting a little BBA algae on the leaves closer to the surface but I can easily deal with that.

That-you all for the replies.


----------



## OreoP

The "what is plant" is sp red. When I first got stems from @burr740, they were deep red. New shoots in my tank were more green-yellow than red. At that time I had 2 x 24/7 Finnex lights and dosing "classic" EI.

After introducing 2 T5HO's (6400K bulbs) and modifying the ferts, new growth is deep red. I reduced NO3 and micros to 0.1 (CSMB). Also add 0.05 gul. Fe and 0.05 DTPA Fe.

Also what you refer to as the sp red is a rubin


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## burr740

Wouldnt surprise me if some of that algae goes away with more light - because the plants will become more robust and healthy, which translates to being more resistant to algae.

You've sorta crossed a new threshold here with slightly more demanding plants that need a certain degree of light to really thrive.

Obviously ferts or CO2 could still be off, or or get that way with higher light. If either one is a problem now, it will amplify at higher light. 

But I wouldnt hesitate to bump that par up a bit, because either way you could do with a little more light for these plants.


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## Immortal1

Well, looks like it's time for me to sharpen my pruning skills. Both lights (Satellite Plus Pro and Satellite Plus) are running at full power for about 9 hours per day (one long photo period). I am guessing my ferts are getting pretty close to being correct as there is not too much GSA on the glass or leaves. I am however amazed hat how much growth I got in just 1 week. If you go back to post 73 you can see how tall the Ludwegia Red is. Now the tallest one can reach above the water line. WOW. Most everything else in the tank is going to need a serious trimming today as well. Needless to say I was a little surprised


----------



## burr740

Now THAT'S a Rubin!


----------



## Greggz

Linn looks like the plants are liking the higher light.

That Rubin looks much better now. Get ready, that plant is a weed. I cut it down pretty much every week. Good thing is it doesn't mind if you play rough with it.

The old saying comes to mind..............be careful what you wish for, you just might get it. I think you are officially on a new path now.


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## Immortal1

Well, don't have a lot of pictures to post tonite as it seems with the new update on my Samsung S6 my lowest pic quality is now too large to add to the gallery here. Will have to do some experimenting on figuring out an easy way to post pics again. So, in the mean time I offer a couple of videos (kinda like pics). The first video is more about the fish than the plants. I did get a few close ups of the Panda Garra doing what he normally does - chew on the glass. The second video I did mostly to get a close up of the bushynose pleco  Also, note - set your resolution to at least 720 HD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgKmz1y_36g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTxVAAd_0ew


----------



## Greggz

Linn look into Image Resizer for Windows. Let's you right click on a picture and shrink the size of the file. I resize all of mine before I post. Also is faster loading for everyone else.

The tank and Bows are looking great. Looks like your plants are growing better than ever, so nice work there.

And I must say, I am more intrigued by your Panda Garra's now. Looks like a nice breed to keep. May have to add a few to my tank.


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## burr740

Tank is looking great man. All your fish are very nice too!


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## Omar EAZi

Wow!! seeing the thread from your first post up until now there's been a massive progress going on!! the DIY stuff at the beginning was really well done bro thumbs up for that.. 
Seeing how you went from having a few plants in the back just for decoration and then suddenly dosing PSS Pro and adding bunch of plants haha!! 
Having plants and see them grow is really interesting though, specially knowing how beneficial they're for the tank itself to keep it healthy. 
anyways, nice tank and nice fishes, keep it up.. and thanks for the voltage thingy suggestion, you really helped me out on that one haha


----------



## Immortal1

Did some major re-working on the left side of the tank this morning. Huge java fern that was in the back left corner has been donated to the LFS. The Ludwigia Ruben and the Bocapa have been relocated from the front left to the back left. Still trying my hand at some S. repens along the front - several of them are now taking hold 
The rest of the front left is patiently awaiting a gift (purchase?) from Burr740. Hopefully will have a new FTS in a few days. For now, I will just leave you all with this...


----------



## Greggz

Linn looking good. More plants from Burr?? What's on tap? 

Looks like the transition continues. I'm guessing the large swords days are numbered!:grin2:


----------



## burr740

Greggz said:


> I'm guessing the large swords days are numbered!:grin2:


He doesnt know it yet, but I just included that sword's replacement with what else he got. 

Of course its a small, single thing right now, so it might be a while...


----------



## Greggz

burr740 said:


> He doesnt know it yet, but I just included that sword's replacement with what else he got.
> 
> Of course its a small, single thing right now, so it might be a while...


Burr you have me intrigued..........what's the prize for guessing correctly?

Let's see......could it be Nelsonia Canescens??


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## burr740

Greggz said:


> Burr you have me intrigued..........what's the prize for guessing correctly?
> 
> Let's see......could it be Nelsonia Canescens??


Here's a hint; Its never been seen in any of my tanks because I just got a few days ago.

So......good luck with the guessing!


----------



## Greggz

burr740 said:


> Here's a hint; Its never been seen in any of my tanks because I just got a few days ago.
> 
> So......good luck with the guessing!


Aha, even more intrigued. 

Looking forward to seeing what's new. Get the camera ready for the arrival Linn!


----------



## Immortal1

burr740 said:


> He doesnt know it yet, but I just included that sword's replacement with what else he got.
> 
> Of course its a small, single thing right now, so it might be a while...


Uh oh....


----------



## Immortal1

Well, it's water change Sunday and I figured I would take a hack at the right side of the tank (after sharpening the pruning shears). Left one of the mermaid weed stems tall but topped the rest and replanted. Also hacked a bunch of the dwarf rotala (maybe 50% worth). Tank is looking much better now in my opinion. Just a little weird having so much available floor space on the left side.

















And for Gregg, they do still exist  Amazed at how hard they can be to find...









And as for pulling one of the swords... holy crap - the Melon sword will be a real PITA to pull out. Pretty sure the roots cover the entire bottom of my tank given the size of the main root!









Maybe the Amazon Sword will be a bit more forgiving... probably not, LOL


----------



## The Dude1

Absolutely gorgeous. What Rainbow species do you have?
I see you did a pretty good job of listing them on post 38. Any newer additions? Did you get all of them from a LFS? I'm weighing the option of finding a good source and getting everything at once to pay overnight shipping on only a single order


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## Immortal1

Thankyou @The Dude1 - as for new additions to the rainbow collection, only 2 since post 38. All rainbows have come from my trusted LFS. He has been in business for more than 35 years. Gets most of his fish from only a couple trusted suppliers and some from local breeders. Very good reputation when it comes to quality fish. As the last 2 additions were hybrid fish, I am thinking I really should do more research before I purchase. Your thought on getting everything at once has it's merits. On the other hand I am always adding just 1 more, LOL.

Desert Rainbowfish (Melanotaenia splendida tatei) - 2 males (my big boys) and 3 females.

Yellow Rainbowfish (Melanotaenia herbertaxelrodi) - 2 males (amazed at how bright the yellow is) and 3 females. (Males have the bright orange tails, females have clear tails)

New Guinea Red Rainbow (Glossolepis incisus) - 2 males (they get very red when they are happy) and 2 females. (Females look more like a dirty gold color)

Marci Rainbow (Species unknown) - 1 male - definitely a hybrid from what I have been able to read online









Gidimon Rainbow (Species unknown) - 1 male (female went into quarantine almost immediately, did not survive) Pretty sure this is a hybrid rainbow


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## Immortal1

Well, today was the day to receive a few new plants from @burr740. Took a little longer than he wanted but it seems everybody survived the trip just fine. Receive the package about noon so I decided to go home for lunch and do a little planting. Guessing it will take a day or so for them to adjust to their new environment. With any luck they will be happy enough


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## LRJ

Immortal1 said:


> Well, today was the day to receive a few new plants from @burr740. Took a little longer than he wanted but it seems everybody survived the trip just fine. Receive the package about noon so I decided to go home for lunch and do a little planting. Guessing it will take a day or so for them to adjust to their new environment. With any luck they will be happy enough


So what was the mystery sword-replacement, or did I miss that somewhere?


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## Immortal1

Hygrophila siamesis 53B was the sword replacement. Also got a few stems of Myrio guyana 'mini' usually just called Mini Myrio (front right corner of the above pic.


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## Greggz

Linn you are going to like that L. Aromatica Mini. Leave it some room, as once it gets going it propagates quickly and will turn into a dense bush. 

So what is the fate of the swords? I know that would be a tough one because by the looks of them you have had them for awhile. I would let that hygro grow out a bit and see how feel about it then. 

I like where you are going and look forward to seeing how things develop from here.


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## burr740

Give that Hygro plenty of light and some space while it grows out. In other words even though it's rather small and insignificant now, dont just stick in a corner or behind a bunch of tall stuff. It's kind of a slow grower anyway


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## Immortal1

Have a new tank mate. Picked up a Turquoise rainbow today from the LFS (picture is a stock photo). He's a little guy at the moment but he seems to be fitting in nicely with everybody else.
Will give him some time to color up a bit before I try to get good pics of him.


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## Immortal1

Well, I must admit I am a little surprised. The little guy had a bit of a rocky start (not sure if the 6.3 pH from CO2 was bothering him or not; spent a lot of time at the surface sucking air so to speak), but come feeding time tonite he was just as aggressive as anybody. His color also looks better than around 1pm today so I figured what the heck, lets see if I can get a few pics....


----------



## Greggz

Linn that's a great addition to your tank. He looks like a healthy looking little guy, and I like the extra splash of color with the blue. 

The lacustris grow pretty quickly at first, then it takes years for them to develop the more mature rounded shape. They really go through quite an evolution, and it's a pleasure to watch. And if cared for well, they can live a really good long time. Nice pick up!


----------



## Immortal1

Thanks Gregg! Been looking thru Rainbow Fish Guide trying to figure out one of the other rainbows I got. Phil at the LFS said Gidimon Rainbowfish - don't think he got it right. Or thats just what the breeder calls them. The body style really looks like a Melanotaenia to me. In looking thru that list, the closest one I saw was Melanotaenia caerulea. Now I am guessing what I have is no pure bred but if I had to make a guess, thats what it would be. Any thoughts?








The real thing









Mine

EDIT, Leave it to the wife and her exceptional Google skills to figure it out (thank you dear)


----------



## ChrisX

Immortal1 said:


> Finally topped the Mermaid weed (was getting pretty tall). Moved the bottoms and tops over towards the Crypts (better location I think). The bottoms are now sprouting new growth so very happy about that.
> Figured I would also get a current full tank shot seeing as the room was nice and dark


Wow!


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## Greggz

Linn I think what you actually have there is a Melanotaenia Vanheurni "Gidomen village". It would make more sense, as M. Venheurni are being bred here in the U.S. At least that is my best guess.

Here's a pic. I think the colors and the especially the thick horizontal black stripe looks more like yours. If so, it is one of the largest Rainbows, and I've read they can get to almost 8 inches.


----------



## Immortal1

Gregg, you might be right on that - Melanotaenia Vanheurni "Gidomen village". my LFS guy is not likely to special order something from outside the US. Your pic is probably of a more pure bred and / or mine simply has not fully colored up yet. Another thing is I also have a female so between the two fish I'm sure with a bit more research I will get it figured out.

Now, as for being one of the larger rainbows - that may not be a bad thing, LOL. Wife said if the size of the fish becomes an issue, we will just get a bigger tank :grin2:
Now how can I say now to that? As always, thank-you for your help!


----------



## Greggz

Immortal1 said:


> Now, as for being one of the larger rainbows - that may not be a bad thing, LOL. Wife said if the size of the fish becomes an issue, we will just get a bigger tank :grin2:
> Now how can I say now to that? As always, thank-you for your help!


I have figured for awhile now a bigger tank for you was only a matter of time. If a large Rainbow moves you in that direction, all the better!

And keep in mind, Gidomen Village is a place. Many Rainbows could have "Gidomen" added to their scientific name, as there are usually color variations depending on where the species was collected. But I do think we probably have it correct above.


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## Immortal1

Was reading a few posts on how to imbed a youtube video and figured I would give it a try. And I guess, figured I would showoff some of the tank while I'm at it LOL. fyi, 720p and full screen is really nice.


----------



## Immortal1

Wow, what a mess. Was out of town for a few days this past weekend - knew I needed to do a trim before I left but realized when I got back I REALLY needed to do a trim!!!









As for these guys, they seem to be pretty happy now.









So, I did finish trimming some of the plants tonite, but now the lights are all off so I will have to post a "post trimmed" pic tomorrow (looks a LOT better)


----------



## Immortal1

Finally got around to finishing the trimming / replanting. Both sides got mowed down pretty good 
Right side









Left side









Full Tank Shot









@Greggz - kinda blows my mind I have this much Mermaid Weed in my tank, plus 6 stems in her tank. And it all started out with the 2 little stems I got from you 
see post 47 of this thread for a pic of the little guys


----------



## Silang

Nice tank. And beautiful Garra Flavatra! Looking to get some, but haven't seen any in all LFS in my area.


----------



## angelacalvilo

It looks great. I love it.


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## thedood

t is indeed a gorgeous tank.


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## Greggz

Immortal1 said:


> kinda blows my mind I have this much Mermaid Weed in my tank, plus 6 stems in her tank. And it all started out with the 2 little stems I got from you
> see post 47 of this thread for a pic of the little guys


Yes Linn I told you at the time it grows like a weed. Let it get up near the surface, and it should start to get a nice kind of orange color, and the tops will get bigger, three or four inches across.

And by the way, your tank is looking better and better all the time. Both the plants and the Bows!:grin2:


----------



## Immortal1

Thank-you Gregg for the comments - I am starting to get the hang of trimming, replanting, topping, mowing, etc. Also starting to do "groups" instead of just shoving plants in where ever I can find a spot. Guess I am starting to pay more attention to what the experts here are doing 

Anyway, time for a small update. 
Been working on the left side of the 75g tank - starting to look more appealing.










Been working on the wifes 40g. Its still a bit overgrown looking but getting better.










And believe it or not, this is my 20g whatever tank. No co2, just a Finnex Planted light and a Aquaclear 50. I do dose about 1/3rd EI on this tank. kills me that the AR Mini actually looks good in this tank - does horrible in my 75g tank. For the longest time this tank was only existed to have a place to put cuttings until I figured out what to do with them. I added a few small fish at some point. The started caring about how it looked. Now it actually looks pretty impressive.


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## Greggz

Linn I really like the way you planted the left side of the 75G. Looks great. Like they say, sometimes less is more. 

So when is the right side getting whacked???:grin2:

And the other tanks look great too. That 20 low tech is pretty interesting. Plants sure look healthy and happy. What ever you are doing don't change it, you must have just the right combination working now.


----------



## Brian Rodgers

*Wow wow and more wows!* I started from the beginning yesterday. I am so glad you started your journal. I learned so much from reading along. Your elegant writing style combined with a humble perspective while writing about the knowledge you gained along the way, makes this a real page turner.
I've only been here less than a year. I'm an avid reader with my own planted tank to play with while I learn. Everyone here makes learning this hobby entertaining and fun.
*This is a Five Star journal, Linn, thank you.*


----------



## Immortal1

Thanks for the compliments @brian Rogers - it has been quite the journey. I have definitely learned a lot from the many members of this forum and, when I can, try to give something back.

Now on to a weekend update 

I was again fortunate enough to get a few new plants from @burr740 - (2) Erios, 1 each lineare and malayttoor. Also got a small Barclaya to try and mature.









And a few more various left side pics just for fun...



























And for @Greggz, my nicked up bow seems to be doing just fine - in the words of Monte Python "it's just a flesh wound" 









And I suppose I better finish with a FTS - thanks for looking!


----------



## Greggz

Linn the erio's look good. 

And glad to hear the Bow is healing. They do get some battle wounds from time to time.

In general, as long as they are eating and active, usually not too much to worry about.


----------



## ChrisX

Greggz said:


> Linn the erio's look good.
> 
> And glad to hear the Bow is healing. They do get some battle wounds from time to time.
> 
> In general, as long as they are eating and active, usually not too much to worry about.


Just got back from the LFS and was surprised at how many varieties of rainbows they have... They dont have any color in the store so I used to pay them no mind, but now I realized what they can turn into... I may get a school of rainbows...but there are so many to chose from. Some of them...

Red Laser Neon
Dwarf Kamaka Rainbow (blue)
Goyder River
Rygmaea Rainbow
Yellow Rainbow
Threadfin Rainbow
Boesmani Rainbow

Each about 10-12$.


----------



## Immortal1

Time for another update 
Sadly my erios are just not looking as happy as I had hoped for. Have a feeling somebody has taken a liking to chewing and pulling :-(









The Dwarf Rotala seems to be growing like a weed. I cut off all the good tops and tossed the ratty bottoms - looks much better! The Mermaid weed also seems pretty happy these days.









The L aromatica was getting to be a huge shrub so I basically did the same thing - off with the good, out with the bad. Interesting thing in my tank vs Burr's tank (likely lighting level) is the leaves seem much shorter than when it arrived. Not a bad thing, really just different. The bottom of the leaves still have the purplish tone. The Miro mini has been doing very well. Most were 8-10" tall before I hacked em down to a more reasonable 3-4" tall. When I first got the S. Repens from OreoP that stuff simply would not stay planted - was constantly shoving the back into the sub-straight daily. What you see now I don't think I can pull out without trying very hard (this is good). Hopefully they will start spreading out a bit. 









And I suppose a good post would not be the same without a FTS 









Thanks for looking


----------



## Immortal1

Time for another update. Having seen GreggZ's recent post showing names for all his plants got me thinking, I have never done that with my tank. So, here we go...









The newest plant in the tank is Myriophyllum Mattogrossense - wow is the a fragile plant! Will be interesting to see how long it lasts before somebody chews it to pieces.









This is basically a closeup of the right side of the tank.









And this is an end view of the right side showing where the Pogo Kimberly is. Don't know if it will stay here - probably not.









Left side of the tanks seems to be doing well lately. The S. Repens actually does not look nearly as bad as it did a month ago.









Back left of the tank - did some trimming in this area last weekend









Boy I have a lot of realestate that could be filled in. Biggest problem is the slate that is attached to the hardscape is only 1/2" - 3/4" below the sub-straight - not good for planting much









one of the bigger surprises is the realization that I actually have 2 Amazon Swords growing behind the center hardscape. Originally I did have 2 in this area but I pulled one of them out and gave to the LFS after I learned how big they get. Was wondering why I seemed to have SO MANY sword leaves from one plant.









Well, thats about all I have for this weekend. Thanks for looking.


----------



## Greggz

Linn nice update. I bet you can remove the slate from the bottom of that drift wood. I'm sure it is well soaked now and would be fine.

And needless to say that Crinum is a monster. And the Swords are huge too.

Have you ever checked your PAR? Just curious, as you have a mix now of low light and high light plants. When I added more light, it was the beginning of the end for lower light plants for me. You must be somewhere right in that middle ground.


----------



## sdwindansea

Tank looks great and I love the plant numbering in your post and the one by Greggz. I hope you are able to remove the slate. I've had my driftwood completely submerged for 11 months now. It is being held down by a large rock on the backside of it. Today I figured I should try to remove it as it would give me some additional planting options. Bad idea, the wood still wants to float like a cork.


----------



## clownplanted

sdwindansea said:


> Tank looks great and I love the plant numbering in your post and the one by Greggz. I hope you are able to remove the slate. I've had my driftwood completely submerged for 11 months now. It is being held down by a large rock on the backside of it. Today I figured I should try to remove it as it would give me some additional planting options. Bad idea, the wood still wants to float like a cork.




One thing I noticed with wood is they tend to want to hold air. What I do is shake them really good in water and this forces the air to release. Give this a try and see if it works. Air pockets will always keep them from sinking. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Immortal1

Greggz said:


> Linn nice update. I bet you can remove the slate from the bottom of that drift wood. I'm sure it is well soaked now and would be fine.
> 
> And needless to say that Crinum is a monster. And the Swords are huge too.
> 
> Have you ever checked your PAR? Just curious, as you have a mix now of low light and high light plants. When I added more light, it was the beginning of the end for lower light plants for me. You must be somewhere right in that middle ground.


Have not checked PAR - need to talk to Hoppy  If I had to make a guess, you are likely correct about being in the middle ground for PAR. 
As for the Crinum - yes, it is a monster. Have started trimming off the thicker, older testicles. Crazy thing is I think it also multiplied from the original plant. One of the other crazy things is the root, or maybe rhyzome of the Melon sword. Looks to be about 3/4" thick as it enters the sub-straight. Can only imagine being in your shoes having to switch tanks in short order - not sure what I would do with the Crinum or the Swords. As for the drift wood - I am sure it is fully soaked. Guess the question I have for myself is will it stay in place without the slate? Might have to pull one of them and see what happens.


----------



## Immortal1

Ok, small update. The Pogo Kimberly seems to be pretty happy these days - about 3-4" from the surface. Mermaid weed seems to be pretty happy as well.









Question for those who know - is it typical for this plant to loose the lower leaves? Right now the upper 4-6" have really nice leaves.


----------



## Greggz

Hey Linn that Pogo K. is really starting to look good. It probably likes being nearer the light. Pretty soon I bet you start seeing lots of side shoots.

When mine gets tall, it's the same at the bottom, very few leaves. I have it behind my driftwood, so you don't see it. If I didn't have it behind the wood, I would put a medium size plant in front of it.

And the Mermaid weed looks happy too. Looks like it is multiplying well for you.

How are the Bows doing? And did you decide on more light?


----------



## Immortal1

Kinda figured that might be correct on the Pogo Kimberly. I plan on moving them back a bit but not until I get more light back there.

Bows are doing great! Have not pulled the trigger on more light yet - been spending all my free time (and money) on the daughters project


----------



## Immortal1

Well, I guess this update is a little late as I took the pictures Sunday while doing the water change - oh well.
@Greggz, I ended up topping and re-planting the Pogo Kimberly as they were getting pretty close to the top. One thing I was noticing was the spacing of the sections (growth sections?). I can pretty much tell exactly when I got these plants - the lower sections are pretty tall (grows faster in your tank), then they suddenly got very short (plant was added to my tank, had to adjust), then after a period of time, the growth sections look like they are almost as good as when the plant was in your tank.

I also took some more of your advice (more or less LOL), I added my 24" Fluval Fresh/Planted 2.0 light to the right side of my tank, directly over the Mermaid weed / Pogo Kimberly. I am suspecting the PAR level is now significantly higher! Will see how long it takes to make an algae farm on that side of the tank. In the event this is successful, I may just add another 24" Fluval 2.0 on the other side. Atleast with the WiFi controller I can adjust the intensity of the light as needed.









Figured I would post a few tank shots after I hacked most everything back down.



























Also figured it would not hurt to add atleast one bow pic


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## Williak

Looking good man! That Crinum is insane lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Greggz

Immortal1 said:


> @Greggz, I ended up topping and re-planting the Pogo Kimberly as they were getting pretty close to the top. One thing I was noticing was the spacing of the sections (growth sections?). I can pretty much tell exactly when I got these plants - the lower sections are pretty tall (grows faster in your tank), then they suddenly got very short (plant was added to my tank, had to adjust), then after a period of time, the growth sections look like they are almost as good as when the plant was in your tank.
> 
> I also took some more of your advice (more or less LOL), I added my 24" Fluval Fresh/Planted 2.0 light to the right side of my tank, directly over the Mermaid weed / Pogo Kimberly. I am suspecting the PAR level is now significantly higher! Will see how long it takes to make an algae farm on that side of the tank. In the event this is successful, I may just add another 24" Fluval 2.0 on the other side. Atleast with the WiFi controller I can adjust the intensity of the light as needed.


Linn this should be interesting to see how the plants react with more light. Might guess is that they will like it.

As you increase light, be sure to be dosing enough ferts, as the demand will be higher. And since your tank is similar to mine in that you have a decent stock of fish, I wouldn't be afraid to dose P even a bit higher. My tank seems to like it, , and I've never seen a negative reaction from too much.

And as to algae, in my tank it can be related to too LITTLE ferts (relative to light). I'll be updating my journal soon, but one interesting thing I noticed since upping my micros is that my glass gets no algae at all. It was never bad, but I did wipe the glass down every week during the water change. Since upping the micros (.15 Fe daily) I can't find any to wipe.

Are you seeing anything similar dosing the Burr mix?? And where are you at on the dosing?


----------



## Immortal1

Interesting your level of glass algae has decreased with the increase in micros. I really don't get much green spot algae on the front glass weekly. I certainly can understand upping some ferts with more light. One of my early observations is the dwarf rotala is starting to turn more pinkish at the top vs just plain green. The mermaid weed also seems to be turning more yellow. Will be interesting what kind of colors I have after another week. In another thread this one I was commenting on just how much PAR I might actually have on the right hand side of the tank. I am using Burr ver 5.1 micros, 0.1 ppm FE / dose ( 3 times per week). Interestingly enough, look at the bottom Mermaid Weed leaf in the pic above with the red growth lines - that leaf looks like crap! (green veins) The newest growth looks great!!! As for P, I am currently dosing 1/4 tsp of K2SO4 3 times per week in addition to the 1/2 tsp of KNO3. May have to pull up Zorfox's calculator and re-evaluate how much K2SO4 I am dosing (might need more).


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## Greggz

Immortal1 said:


> I am using Burr ver 5.1 micros, 0.1 ppm FE / dose ( 3 times per week).


FYI at Burr's suggestion I am kind of testing the upper limits on micro dosing. Like I said, I am at .15 daily (yes seven days per week), and Burr is even a bit higher now. Just saying I don't think it would hurt to up it a bit. 

And interesting the changes you have noticed already with more light. I think it will continue and some of those plants will start to show even more color given a bit more time.

Keep the updates coming, I am looking forward to seeing how this develops.


----------



## burr740

Looking good man!

I agree with Greggz about upping micros. Try dosing daily or double up and see what happens


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## Immortal1

burr740 said:


> Looking good man!
> 
> I agree with Greggz about upping micros. Try dosing daily or double up and see what happens


I'm on it! Will keep you all posted :grin2:


----------



## Maryland Guppy

I have to protest about all these new fert recipes.

I move to Miracle-Gro with BDBS cap and I can't test any of this.>


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## Immortal1

Well, this should be an interesting next few weeks. So, previously I had the Satellite Plus Pro and the Satellite Plus running about 9 hours per day. Then I figured what the heck, I'll add my spare 24" Fluval F&P 2.0 to one side of the tank. Well today I stopped be the LFS and just could not help myself - I grabbed another 24" Fluval F&P 2.0 light. Fortunately I already had the WiFi controller which can power 2 lights AND Fluval finally fixed the WiFi software so I can re-connect to the light with my Android. 

So, with all that said, I now t3chnically have 4 lights on my 75g tank. I have a bad feeling if I run everything at 100% I am going to have a serious algae farm LOL. So for now, the Fluval lights spend 2 hours ramping up to 50% or 2 hours ramping down back down to 0%. The 5 hours in between the ramps the lights are set to 70%. Hopefully this will limit the algae explosion 

Anyway, on to the pics (cause you know I like posting pics)









LOL, have a bad feeling Fluval would not be happy that I took the lights apart and joined them together (oops). (WOW, my lights are DIRTY!)









For what it's worth I think things are looking better (was running the single Fluval light for a little over a week on the right side). The Pogo Kimberly is getting more red/pink color in the middle. The Mermaid weed is starting to turn more yellow and its only about 1/2 way up to the surface. The surprising one for me is the Dwarf rotala - the newer leaves are looking a lot more pink (at least in person). With any luck I might actually get some plant colors that are similar to @burr740 beautiful plants. Or I will end up covering everything with algae. Guess we will see.









One thing that just occurred to me - dosing more micros means I will have to buy some more "magic powder" from Burr a lot sooner than planned ;-)


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## Greggz

Wow that's quite a nice improvement in color in a short time, and is about what I was expecting. Those tops all look happier. Glad to see you are giving this a shot.

Looking forward to seeing what comes next!


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## The Dude1

Wow.... that's ALOT of light!! So you are able to control 3 of the 4 fixtures with your Android device? The 4th is just on a timer? Are you using some kind of controller? I was at the LFS yesterday figuring out automation for my 265. Apparently there are systems that will allow programmed light, feeding, dosing, top offs, and even water changes and heaters with redundant safety measures, but also full and complete control from an android device?? Neptune I think?? Or is Apex the same?? Is that what you use?


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## Immortal1

@The Dude1 - yes it is a lot of light! Hopefully more than I will ever need. Unfortunately I am not using something as cool as a Neptune or Apex. Would love the challenge, just don't have the $ or the time to do that.
My setup is as follows;

Current Satellite Plus, 48"-60" model, back of tank. This light is on a mechanical timer. The remote for the light allows me to adjust brightness manually. Currently at full power for 9 hours.

Fluval twins (LOL). 24" models sitting over the middle of the tank. These (2) lights are connected to a Fluval brand WiFi controller. I can adjust the lights thru an Android app. These lights are running 70% power for 5 hours.

Current Satellite Plus Pro, 48"-60" model, front of tank. This light comes with its own controller and remote. Programming the controller takes a bit of learning but is doable. Currently this light is running 100% power for 9 hours - will likely scale it back to 50-70% as I figure out exactly what is needed.

LOL, part of me would really like to look into an Apex or Neptune. Currently I have 7 mechanical timers under the 2 tanks (40g & 75g) - not a lot of fun re-setting these after a power outage or daylight savings time changes. 

265 gallons - that sounds like a whole lot of fun / challenges. Are you going more low tech? If not, I can only imagine how much you would be spending on lighting options alone. Wish I could get a picture of my friends 480 gallon freshwater ray tank - absolute monster of a tank.


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## tejasn324

nice


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## The Dude1

Immortal1 said:


> @The Dude1 - yes it is a lot of light! Hopefully more than I will ever need. Unfortunately I am not using something as cool as a Neptune or Apex.
> 
> 265 gallons - that sounds like a whole lot of fun / challenges. Are you going more low tech? If not, I can only imagine how much you would be spending on lighting options alone. Wish I could get a picture of my friends 480 gallon freshwater ray tank - absolute monster of a tank.


No it will be in the middle of the great room and the first thing you see when you walk in. It will be as self sufficient as possible. I know I want dimmable LED's and something that will give the cloud and thunderstorm effects. Feeding and opening up one valve to drain water and then opening a second valve to add new water is pretty much the goal. No buckets or hoses anywhere for any reason. These salt water guys do that and 10 times more so it shouldn't be anything innovative. I'm not going to try for the super exotic stuff like you and Greggz, and Burr740. I just want a big tank with my favorite fish and stuff in the center of the house. I'll have some smaller tanks in my office / play room. I'm just learning and picking up stuff as I go. I can't have plants that require me to dive in once a week for trimming so nothing super exciting on that front.
It will be interesting to see the effects of that much light. I'm curious if there is a cellular limit to their photosynthetic ability... if C02 isn't limited, nutrients aren't limited, light would be the next limiting factor. It could come down to chloroplast density in each species..


----------



## Immortal1

Well this is a bit different for me....





Bump: @The Dude1 - curious if you have a basement or crawlspace below where you are setting up the tank? In my case I have a crawlspace below mine. Was able to plumb water and sewer directly under my tank. I use a 5/8" hose to drain my tank then open a valve and turn on the pump to move water from the storage tank up to the fish tank. Might be helpful for your situation.


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## Greggz

Immortal1 said:


> Well this is a bit different for me....


Wow that was fast! I mean I expected it, but that is a quick change.


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## slipfinger

Nice improvements. 

Its amazing the pearling you can get by ramping up the light. When I run all 6 bulbs in my fixture at the same time the tank looks like 7-UP but PAR 160/70 at the substrate. I still get decent pearling a few hours into my photo period with just 4 bulbs and only about 100/120 par at sub. Win. Win.


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## The Dude1

Immortal1 said:


> Well this is a bit different for me....
> Pearling plants
> 
> Bump: @The Dude1 - curious if you have a basement or crawlspace below where you are setting up the tank? In my case I have a crawlspace below mine. Was able to plumb water and sewer directly under my tank. I use a 5/8" hose to drain my tank then open a valve and turn on the pump to move water from the storage tank up to the fish tank. Might be helpful for your situation.


We have a full basement, but that is exactly what I want done. I don't know what the deal is, but the builders are giving me a bunch of hassle about it. I'm not an expert DIY'er by any stretch, but I don't know why it's a problem. Did you cover the setup earlier in your log? I originally wanted the tank custom built, but I lost faith in the contractors. We are pumping water from an underground source and we have to use a septic system so perhaps that's some of the problem.

That is an unbelievably clean install. Amazing job


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## Immortal1

Now that I am running a bit more light I have been paying a bit more attention to the tank hoping I did not end up with algae problem. I typically have a bit of gsa on the glass weekly and on some plants but lately it has gotten worse. So, given @Greggz s recent water testing of Nitrate and Phosphate I though why not, lets see if anything has changed (today was the 3rd macro day of the week). Well, surprise surprise my Phosphate level was 0.5ppm in my tank and 0.25ppm in the wifes tank. Oops. Guess my weekly phosphate total listed in Greggs micro dosing thread is WAY off! So, guess I will be adjusting my E.I. macro dosing a bit - hopefully this helps.

As for the plants, not much to update yet. Other than the need for an extreme trim this afternoon.


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## Greggz

Immortal1 said:


> Now that I am running a bit more light I have been paying a bit more attention to the tank hoping I did not end up with algae problem. I typically have a bit of gsa on the glass weekly and on some plants but lately it has gotten worse. So, given @Greggz s recent water testing of Nitrate and Phosphate I though why not, lets see if anything has changed (today was the 3rd macro day of the week). Well, surprise surprise my Phosphate level was 0.5ppm in my tank and 0.25ppm in the wifes tank. Oops. Guess my weekly phosphate total listed in Greggs micro dosing thread is WAY off! So, guess I will be adjusting my E.I. macro dosing a bit - hopefully this helps.
> 
> As for the plants, not much to update yet. Other than the need for an extreme trim this afternoon.


Interesting. All I can say is that my own personal experience, I have created more problems dosing too little rather than too many ferts. Especially when you turn up the lights, then you are driving the demand for everything else, both ferts and CO2. 

And for me, I have to dose more than EI on Phosphates, or my tank doesn't like it. And I think in many ways your tank is very similar to mine, in that you have a larger than normal fish stocking.

Looking forward to seeing where this goes for you, and I am glad to see you pushing things a bit further. Going to be time soon to send a new batch of plants to try. Let me know when you are ready.


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## Immortal1

Yes I am pushing things a bit harder than I used to. The way I see it I have 2 issues to resolve before I take you up on your offer. 
Get my ferts right and get Mother Nature to quit being so damn cold, LOL
Have a few new plants waiting to be sent from StrungOut - just have to wait a bit so I don't end up with beautiful blocks of ice.

Hopefully the added Phosphate with get things looking better again. Funny thing is not that long ago I was running 4-5ppm Phosphate using roughly the same done. Guess things change a bit when you step on the gas pedal.


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## Immortal1

Time for a few updates. Was recently following along on a thread dealing with MGSO4 dosing/deficiencies which got me thinking (dangerous?). So I ended up asking @Seattle_Aquarist a few questions and of course that lead to some great answers and then more questions LOL. In the end I learned I am very likely running low on Magnesium and likely a few other items as well. Gave my first dose of Equilibrium last nite and subsequently learned just how cloudy I could make my tank water :-(
But, I have a feeling things will be improving even more in the near future. During this process I also learned where the manual camera settings are on my LG-G6 phone! This has proven to be VERY handy in getting pictures to LOOK like they do in person.

As a good example, this is pretty close to what I see in person with regards to my dwarf rotala - it is actually changing color to something other than typical green!!!









This picture is one that Roy spent some time commenting on. I am guess some experienced eyeballs can see some of the issues that have been eluding me for many months. Hey, at least I am learning what to look for - feel like I finally graduated Deficiencies 101









Kinda another pic of the same grouping of plants but I think it shows some of the color progression using the stronger lighting. With any luck the additional Phosphate will help minimize the GSA on the older leaves.









Got my fingers crossed that in a couple weeks I will have some impressive new growth


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## burr740

Looking good man. How much Ca/Mg did you have before and what are you adding now? Just curious about the exact change...


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## Immortal1

Honestly don't know exactly how much Ca I have/had. My GH is 13-14 and my KH is 8. I have a pretty nice Red Sea tester for Magnesium but I have to modify the testing method to get a decent result (5ml test water instead of 2ml. This gave me a 4ppm resolution instead of the 20ppm resolution of the standard kit). With all that said, best guess was 12ppm Magnesium. The local water report show Magnesium was ND Water Quality Report

As for what I did - I added approximately 6 tsp of Equilibrium to my estimated 58 gallons water column. This should have given me a 2 degree increase in the GH if I understand things correctly. Likely won't notice anything yet, but am curious how the tank looks when I get home from work tonite.


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## Greggz

Uh Oh.........higher light, more ferts, dosing Mg/Ca, getting more color from your plants.............looks like you are going down the rabbit hole now!!:laugh2:

And once you get started, tough to go back.

Like what I am seeing, and looking forward to seeing what comes next.


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## Immortal1

I really hope there is something good at the bottom - kinda scarry looking......


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## Maryland Guppy

Immortal1 said:


> I really hope there is something good at the bottom - kinda scarry looking......


Trust Me!>
It's really good at the bottom!
Been there forever!


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## Immortal1

Ok, time for some more pics now that I thin I got these manual settings figured out on my phone...

Pogo Kimberly is starting to look very nice. Now I just have to wait a few weeks (months) to get some nice health "complete" stems vs just the tops.









As for the Mermaid Weed, the top leaves are a little less deformed and getting more yellow every day









The Ludwigia Rubin just keeps getting darker red (or less green, I guess), the new growth on the Limnophila aromatica 'mini' seems to be nice and healthy and the Myrio guyana 'mini' just grows like a weed!









Now, whats really crazy (at least to me) is how my 20g low tech tank is looking these days. Originally this tank was just a place to store excess plants while I figured out what to do with them. Eventually I noticed that some of the plants that did not like growing in my 75g seemed to love being in the 20g. Gregg and I have discussed several times how much we just love Telanthera Cardinalis (Alternanthera reineckii cardinalis) - it just hated being in my 75g. Well, in the 20g it actually grew to the water surface!!! The jungle val on the far left just keeps growing. the other odd one is the Staurogyne repens which is just right of the Jungle Val - it looks totally different in my 75g tank (short and compact). On a whim I added some of the Limnophila aromatica 'mini' from the 75g to the 20g (just right of the S Repens) and was surprised again at how much healthier it looks in the 20g. Oh well, maybe one of these days I will figure all this stuff out, LOL


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## Immortal1

Did a video as well, just had to wait for it to upload....


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## Greggz

Linn that Rubin looks like it is getting happier. And the 20G is really nice. We've seen this before where people have the same plant in two seemingly similar tanks, and the plants react quite differently. Just goes to show what a fine line it is sometimes.

And I love seeing the video. Looks like the Bows and other fish are doing well. Always nice to convey the sense of movement. One of the favorite parts of my tank.


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## Immortal1

Well, this is a bit of a surprise. Was doing regular maintenance and water change today and noticed something a bit odd with my Crinum Calamistratum (see pic below). Evidently these things and/do flower!!! Have had this plant for at lease 2 years and never knew this. Went to Google Images and actually found many pictures of the flower - very cool. So, with any luck this stub will actually turn into a beautiful flower... maybe.


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## Immortal1

So, today was a pretty good day 
Received 2 different packages of plants today. Thankyou to @burr740 and @StrungOut. Everything arrived in excellent condition before our weather turned to $#!^
In this pic, you can see the new Barclaya Longifolia Red and Myriophyllum Red Stem along with a Lobelia Cardinalis along with a new Eriocaulon Lineare and some Syngonanthus  









In this pic, you can see how the Pogo Kimberly and Mermaid Weed are doing since I started adding some MGSO4 and/or Equalibrium based on input from @Seattle_Aquarist









And of course, this would not be a complete post without a FTS...









Definitely learning the dwarf rotala grows like a weed when parameters are close to correct and lights are bright! Bet I can get more than 1" per week. Really looking forward to how some of the older plants look in a few weeks - hoping new growth is looking the way it should instead of deformed and wilted.


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## Greggz

Getting better all the time! 

I've seen this coming for a while. How are you enjoying the transition?


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## Seattle_Aquarist

Hi @Immortal1,

Glad to see the positive results! 

Based upon the 1/6/18 pictures you posted of the Mermaid Weed it looks like a little more Equilibrium and/or calcium is needed and either your NO3 or Fe is low. You still have leaf tip 'hooking' on the new leaves (Ca) and the new leaves shouldn't be that yellow, if the veins were green I would say Fe but they look overall yellow so it could be NO3. Have you checked your nutrient ppm's lately; with the improved growth the nutrient uptake may have increased.


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## Immortal1

Hey Roy, interesting you mention NO3. Its the one fert I never would have imagined running short on. I have an API test kit for nitrate but as most will agree, it is not the most accurate. for what its worth, I am dosing 1/2 tsp of KNO3 3 times per week. Would not be that hard for me to increase the dosing a bit. The amazon sword is showing signs of nitrate deficiency so this should not surprise me that much. Tomorrow is a macro day so I will start dosing a bit more and see what happens. 

As for the Ca levels, I will likely run a full test of variables this weekend and see what I can come up with - should be interesting.


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## Immortal1

Wow, just learned something about my 75g tank this evening! Have not honestly tested Nitrate levels for MANY months - the API kit always showed 40-80ppm and just assumed that was normal for my tank (or the API kit). So on a whim I tested the Nitrate level this evening (tomorrow is water change day). I actually got a big fat "0" on the test. Basically shocked, I tested the wifes high tech 40g barb tank (assuming the API kit was just dead). Well, that tank showed a nice 40ish ppm so I guess the kit still works. Looks like I will need to up my KNO3 dosing from 1/2 tsp to 3/4 tsp (3) times per week and test again. 

While I had all the test kits out figured I would test a few more things. Realized after digging thru everything I have an API Ca2+ test kit also.
Ca2+ = 80ppm
GH = 15 at the tap (API test)
GH = 17 in the tank (API test)
KH = 10 at the tap (API test)
KH = 9 in the tank (API test)
Ammonia = 0
Nitrite = 0
Did not test Magnesium level this evening, but it was around 12-16ppm before I dosed the Equilibrium.
So, given the rather high 17dGH (approximately 304.3ppm) and only 80ppm Ca2 I wonder what else contributes to the high 17dGH?
Anyway, looks like I have some more learning to do  For now the best I can do is show off what I learned on my LG-G6 phone - manual video settings!!! This just might be the clearest video I have ever done on this tank. Make sure you use the 720p / 60fps setting if you watch it.


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## Seattle_Aquarist

Hi Immortal1,

That Mermaid Weed just looked way too yellow. Because it is a mobile nutrient the chlorosis (yellowing) of an NO3 deficiency usually starts showing up on older leaves first, when we start to see it on new growth it means NO3 is bottoming out. If those new Mermaid leaves had showed green veins I would have suspected iron. I bet that growth rate picks up now! lol


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## Immortal1

LOL, I bet it does! Just blows my mind I am at 0ppm on Nitrate. Always harp on the wife when she feeds the fish not to put extra food in there as I did not want the Nitrate to go above 80ppm (it has happened in the past). Never would have guessed the various plants would have gobbled up that much nitrate once I turned up the lights.
@Seattle_Aquarist do you have any experience with Crinum calamistratum? Seem I am being over run with this plant and from what I can tell there is the mother plant and atleast 4 offspring surrounding it. Is it possible to separate the offspring? I understand stem plants, crypts and sword plants but have no working knowledge with the Crinum.


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## Seattle_Aquarist

Hi Immortal1,

Sorry, not experience with that species; but I am glad that your tank is getting back on track. I try to do tests every couple of months, more often when issues occur. The nutrients in most water supplies vary greatly between spring, summer, fall, and winter - a lot of times all we see on the utility water reports is whatever the average has been for a given period. For example, here in Seattle they issue a quarterly water report, but that is just an average for that period. It was really dry last summer and some wells that are typically not used were brought into service, for a while I almost had a measurable dKH!! lol


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## burr740

Nice video Linn. Im always pleasantly amazed when I see vids of your's and @Greggz Rainbows. 

My only Rainbow experience was back in the day, a few of those inbred "australian" variety from a big box store. Those things were wild swimmers, constantly back and forth and back and forth. I hate fish that swim like that. But you guy's are always so tranquil and peaceful looking, chilled out.

On the Crinum, there's some advice in this thread that might be useful - https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/plant-id-needed.48841/


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## Immortal1

Will have to check that thread out @burr740 I did find another site that offered the following; Honestly cant imagine trying to pull the entire plant out to try and "tease" the bulbs off. Have a feeling the root system is almost as big as my tank, LOL.
*
Origin*
Africa; these plants are mostly found in Cameroon.

*Propagation*
As long as this plant is given the correct growing conditions, it will form bulb shoots from the side of the main bulb. To propagate other plants, remove the mother plant from the aquarium and gently tease away the smaller bulb growths and re-plant these into the substrate. When first planted, make sure that there are plenty of nutrients in the substrate to encourage root growth. This plant will produce flowers if allowed to and they are superb but propagating from seed is extremely difficult and should be left to the experts. If you wish to obtain flowers then high lighting and soft water in the aquarium will be required but once they start they will flower on a regular basis.

*Difficulty*
Medium, they do need to establish a good root system for healthy growth.

*Short Description*
This is a very popular background plant in the aquarium hobby. They will produce long and slender leaves that will reach up to the water surface. If given the correct conditions some specimens can grow leaves that will reach up to 4 feet in length. They are sensitive to being moved around the aquarium, it is best to plan carefully where you wish to place these plants and then let them grow there permanently. They are hardy once established, in their natural habitat they can even survive short periods of drought. Even fish nibbling at the leaves should not cause long term damage to the plant. For best growth results, it is best to use a CO2 system and a low water flow.


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## Greggz

burr740 said:


> Nice video Linn. Im always pleasantly amazed when I see vids of your's and @Greggz Rainbows.
> 
> My only Rainbow experience was back in the day, a few of those inbred "australian" variety from a big box store. Those things were wild swimmers, constantly back and forth and back and forth. I hate fish that swim like that. But you guy's are always so tranquil and peaceful looking, chilled out.
> 
> On the Crinum, there's some advice in this thread that might be useful - https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/plant-id-needed.48841/


Burr's tank with Rainbows?

It would be a pretty picture. 

If only just for a picture. 

Ah.....we'll never see it....but guessing it would be spectacular!:grin2:


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## Immortal1

@Greggz - it would be a real improvement to have some quality bows in @burr740 tank 

Just kidding Joe. But it would be interesting. The other thing I find interesting with your tank Joe is when I show people FTS of your tank people are always blow away by the colors and textures and ask "does he have any fish?" then I start pointing to the 20-30 fish in the same picture. Guess that means the main focus is the plants. Where Gregg's and my tank it seems the colorful rainbows are more of the focus, THEN your realize how much plants are in the tank. Guess thats just how it is - but some times I would appreciate it if the @#$% pleco wouldn't knock loose all the newly planted stems - stupid pretty fish


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## Immortal1

Well, what would be a water change day without a few progress pictures. Might as well start off with the FTS as it really shows how much scissor work was done (yes, they are now dull). Myriophyllum Red Stem is now in the back right corner - have a feeling it will be back to the surface by next weekend. Ludwigia repens 'Rubin' is right in front of the Myrio. It is looking redder and healthier than it has been in the past. I relocated most of the Limnophila aromatica 'mini' from the front left to the right hand side and now have a nice selection on the left of Hygrophila 'Siamensis 53B', Lobelia Cardinalis, Dwarf rotala, Bacopa sp. 'colorata', and Myriohyllum sp. 'guyana / mini'. The Barclaya Longifolia Red and Eriocaulon Lineare pretty much occupy the left middle area. Pogo Kimberly, Mermaid weed and Hygro Siamensis consume the right side with some Jungle Val hiding in the back right corner.


























I have been researching on how to thin out the Crinum calamistratum a bit and found out that I "should" be able to separate off the bulb side shoots. Well I was able to peel off 2 of them - this is the smaller of them, LOL


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## Immortal1

Well, this is a bit surprising. For the longest time I could only find 1 Amano shrimp in the tank at any given time (added a total of 6 over the past summer). Was a bit shocked to see 4 of them in almost the same spot! Nice bonus is the pearling in the background.


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## Immortal1

Seem to remember promising @burr740 that I would post a pic of the wifes 5 gallon beta tank after adding the Christmas moss to the spider wood tree. Seems I really need to get better with my picture skills. Little tank consists of regular black aquarium gravel, a small sponge filter and a small 25w heater. So far, the lighting consists of a LED grow light in a generic clamp holder. Plants so far are various cuttings from my tank in addition to Burrs Christmas moss. In addition to her prized Beta, there are 7 pygmy cory cats in the tank.


----------



## burr740

Nice man, that tree is gonna be sweet!


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## Tiger15

I saw that you have couple big fat Siamese algae eater, banded Gara, and amazingly a few Amno shrimp that don’t get eaten. How are they comparing in term of algae eating. I’m trying to get some Gara, but they are hard to find. They are so cute and I heard that they are good bba eater. How large are your SAE. Do they still algae at that size.


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## Immortal1

Tiger15 said:


> I saw that you have couple big fat Siamese algae eater, banded Gara, and amazingly a few Amno shrimp that don’t get eaten. How are they comparing in term of algae eating. I’m trying to get some Gara, but they are hard to find. They are so cute and I heard that they are good bba eater. How large are your SAE. Do they still algae at that size.


LOL, yes the SAE are big and the one is definitely fat! They do still nibble on various plants looking for algae although they really like cucumber the most. The Gara spend a lot of time cleaning the glass but in my opinion they leave more of a pattern on the glass than actually cleaning it. I think with all the plants in the tank the amano shrimp have plenty of places to hide. I occasionally see one swimming out in the open and the rainbow fish seem to leave it alone - possibly because the amano are about the same size as the smallest fish in the tank - not sure.


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## Tiger15

Do you have any bristlenose pleco? I think they are the best gda and gsa eater. I have half a dozen in my tank, and they are multiplying with babies. They keep my glass crystal clean. But I heard that they eat certain plants, such as Amazon sword, but I don’t have any plants they eat.

I bought an SAE last week in the hope that he will take care of bba. But he is schooling with my roseline shark in mid water and not nibbling algae much. Except for color, the two look identical in body shape and stripe. 

I am searching to buy Gara. They look like dwarf clown loach to me with a taste for algae, and I heard they eat bba.


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## Immortal1

I actually have 2 bristlenose pleco - one L144 and one common bristlenose. I see them on the glass occasionally but not much


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## Phil Edwards

Immortal1 said:


> LOL, I bet it does! Just blows my mind I am at 0ppm on Nitrate. Always harp on the wife when she feeds the fish not to put extra food in there as I did not want the Nitrate to go above 80ppm (it has happened in the past). Never would have guessed the various plants would have gobbled up that much nitrate once I turned up the lights.
> 
> @Seattle_Aquarist do you have any experience with Crinum calamistratum? Seem I am being over run with this plant and from what I can tell there is the mother plant and atleast 4 offspring surrounding it. Is it possible to separate the offspring? I understand stem plants, crypts and sword plants but have no working knowledge with the Crinum.


Yeah, you should be able to carefully remove the daughters from the mother. Hit me up around the beginning of June if you still have some available, please.

Tank's looking good!


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## Tiger15

My Bristol nose are constantly grazing algae on the glass, gravels and leaves, day and night. But I don’t feed them zucchini. Are you feeding them to keep them from eating plants. They get lazy if they get fed with easy food.


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## Immortal1

Phil Edwards said:


> Yeah, you should be able to carefully remove the daughters from the mother. Hit me up around the beginning of June if you still have some available, please.
> 
> Tank's looking good!


Hey Phil - I am sure I will still have Crinum in the tank. I was able to successfully remove 2 bulbs from the plant.









Near as I can tell, there is atleast 4-5 more bulbs off the main plant. They are smaller than the one pictured above so I figured I would wait until they get a bit bigger. The 2 that I did remove were given to the LFS along with a bunch of other cuttings or plants. Needless to say they were thrilled.

So, how are you doing these day Phil? Well I hope.


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## Immortal1

Time for a Sunday update and a question or 2. Guess I will start of with the question - got a few Hygrophila 'Siamensis 53B' and some Lobelia Cardinalis from @burr740 a few weeks ago. Now I understand there is usually an adjustment period when moving almost any plant from one tank / part of the country to another. My question is should I trim off some of the older leaves that now have algae on them and allow the newer "hopefully adjusted" leaves to take over? Kinda hard to tell in these 2 pics, but there is a bunch of small new leaves filling in all along the stem on the 53B.

















Also have some good news that is somewhat tied into the question - hopefully on Wednesday I will be receiving a brand new Seneye Reef monitor. For those that don't know, this includes a reasonably nice PAR meter that will also show Kelvin information. So, hopefully by next weekend I can answer my own question - How much PAR do I really have with all those lights running? Should be interesting.

So, on to some pretty pictures...
Probably my favorite fish in the tank - Desert Rainbow fish (Melanotaenia splendida tatei)









and probably my next favorite fish - New Guinea Red Rainbow (Glossolepis incisus). I have a pair of these males along with a couple females. The "boys" spend a lot of time discussing whos tougher 









The bottom fish is a Marci Rainbow fish which I am pretty sure is a Hybrid fish. the top fish is a female Yellow Rainbow fish (Melanotaenia herbertaxelrodi)









And of all the pics I took this morning (most were deleted cause these fish just move too damn fast), for some reason I just liked this one...









And just because I feel I am getting better with my video settings I though I would add another video. Please utilize the "mute" function as I have not yet mastered Greggs ability to add relaxing music in place of my klutziness...


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## burr740

Nice pics! Thought I was in Greggz' journal for a minute. 

53B is a touchy, fussy plant. Its hard to kill but loves to complain by having crappy older leaves. 

What I'd do is keep the really bad leaves pinched off and not dont sweat the sorta bad ones. Give it a month or so to make some new branches. It likes to branch. Then pull it up and replant all the nice new branches. Strip any bad leaves off the main stem and plant the best top portion of that. Round two usually grows out better.


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## Immortal1

Thanks for the info Burr! Figured you would have the know on this plant. I didn't get a pic of the Barclaya Longifolia Red but it seems to be doing well - atleast 2 new leaves that look nice and red!!!


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## Maryland Guppy

Immortal1 said:


> Also have some good news that is somewhat tied into the question - hopefully on Wednesday I will be receiving a brand new Seneye Reef monitor. For those that don't know, this includes a reasonably nice PAR meter that will also show Kelvin information. So, hopefully by next weekend I can answer my own question - How much PAR do I really have with all those lights running? Should be interesting.


 @Immortal1 don't forget about the free lease arrangement on the Boes!:grin2:

Nice pics as always, fast fish too!

Seneye I have been pleased with.
When lamps are mixed Kelvin readings get weird.
Get the update to 2.0 if yours doesn't arrive with it.
New update provides an estimated PUR reading


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## Immortal1

Thanks for the info @Maryland Guppy - should be interesting to see how close the Fluval light is to the 660nm zone. My Finnex planted light which has the TC420 controller on it supposedly has 660nm Red LEDs - can only say the best looking plants I have are in that low tech 20g tank. From what I can see with my eyes, the Satellite Plus & the Satellite Plus Pro both use the same color tiny red LEDs. Are they truly 660nm - don't know. But, I suspect I will find out soon.


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## Greggz

Boy that Splendida is a big boy!

And the Irians were showing great color displaying to each other in the video.

Will be interesting to see how the 53b does from here. Hopefully like you said it's just adjusting. I've had some plants do similar things, sometimes almost melt completely, then come roaring back. 

And I am very curious to see how you like the Seneye. I've been eyeing that one for awhile. Be sure to do an update once you get a chance to use it.


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## Immortal1

Greggz said:


> Boy that Splendida is a big boy!
> 
> And the Irians were showing great color displaying to each other in the video.
> 
> Will be interesting to see how the 53b does from here. Hopefully like you said it's just adjusting. I've had some plants do similar things, sometimes almost melt completely, then come roaring back.
> 
> And I am very curious to see how you like the Seneye. I've been eyeing that one for awhile. Be sure to do an update once you get a chance to use it.


Yep, him and his twin brother are getting big! Both the Irians and the yellow rainbows show a definite light to white streak from their nose up over their forehead when mating with the girls. Their body color also seems to change some with their mood. 

Given what I am seeing in person, I think the 53b will pull thru nicely. Many new leaves showing up since I got it. I am a little sad that the Eriocaulon Lineare I recently got is doing terrible. For some reason I just cant seem to grow that style of plant (think Blyxa style). 

As for the Seneye - I will definitely be posting some info. Will be like a kid on X-Mas - a techie new toy!!!


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## Greggz

Immortal1 said:


> I am a little sad that the Eriocaulon Lineare I recently got is doing terrible. For some reason I just cant seem to grow that style of plant (think Blyxa style).


I've never had much luck with Erio's either. 

I got some Lineare maybe a couple of months ago. I think I had five of them, and they all melted. Funny thing is I just left them in there, and now 2 of them are showing very nice clean new growth. 

So who knows, maybe yours will bounce back. 

And for me, I don't really want to change things too much to accommodate one particular species, as too many others are doing well.


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## Immortal1

So, a couple of yours did bounce back - that is encouraging. I don't really need that space right now so I guess I will just leave it alone and see what happens.


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## Immortal1

If anyone is interested - nice video of the pearling in my tank. Was particularly amazed at how many bubbles were on the Crinum - probably because it is only about 2" away from the lights LOL. @burr740 there is a closeup of the Barclaya at about 1:13. @Greggz you might get a bit of a chuckle at around the 3:07 mark - took me years to get them to line up in formation ;-) p.s. HD version of the video is a must


----------



## burr740

Immortal1 said:


> If anyone is interested - nice video of the pearling in my tank. Was particularly amazed at how many bubbles were on the Crinum - probably because it is only about 2" away from the lights LOL. @*burr740* there is a closeup of the Barclaya at about 1:13. @*Greggz* you might get a bit of a chuckle at around the 3:07 mark - took me years to get them to line up in formation ;-) p.s. HD version of the video is a must
> Pearling Rainbow Tank


Nice vid, Linn. The Barclaya is coming along well, thats a good place for it too.

The Lobelia needs something, that's why there's a little algae on the older leaves. And since the 53B is pouting a bit, I believe you could do with more NO3 and K. Try adding about 50% more of both, regardless what the NO3 test kit says. I'd be willing to be it helps...


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## vvDO

Did you hypnotize your bows? Panda garras are looking really nice too lots of color!! I miss mine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Greggz

Immortal1 said:


> @Greggz you might get a bit of a chuckle at around the 3:07 mark - took me years to get them to line up in formation ;-) p.s. HD version of the video is a must


Immortal1 I thought I was the only one who trained their Bows!!

That Barclaya does look good. I've got a little bitty one that I'm hoping takes off.

And I'm sure the pearling is the result of a little higher light. 

Did you get the Seneye? Curious as to your PAR numbers. It's a big piece of the pie.


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## Immortal1

Well @Greggz I did get the Seneye. Got it setup and took some initial readings. Below is one of the better readings from the floor of the tank.


















These are from up near the top of the Pogo Kimberly

















Not impressed with the PUR graph on the left. Stuck the meter under the Finnex Planted + thats on my 20g tank and it had a much nicer curve (included a lot more blue and red) and the PUR was closer to 70 or 80%


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## Greggz

Immortal1 said:


> Well @Greggz I did get the Seneye. Got it setup and took some initial readings. Below is one of the better readings from the floor of the tank.


Well how cool is that!! Bad part is now I know I have to get one!!

So that substrate reading is after you added some more light, right? So am I guessing you were quite a bit less than that before? And is that with the lights fully turned up?

How is the fall off when not right under the lights? Large drop at the edges? Was always curious about that with LED's.


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## Immortal1

The 84 PAR was with how I currently have the lights;
Satellite Plus @ 100%
Fluval 2.0 @ 100%
Satellite Plus Pro @ 60% white, 100% red and blue.

I did turn the Pro light to 100% and was getting closer to 100 PAR in the same location. Did not do too much on the ends of the tank yet. Should have more info this weekend.

Will have t see what the substraight number is without the Fluval - guessing it will be pretty low.

FYI, 2 day shipping with Amazon Prime


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## Greggz

Immortal1 said:


> FYI, 2 day shipping with Amazon Prime


Thanks Linn you had to throw that in!:grin2:


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## Maryland Guppy

I see you have figured out how to drug your phish and keep them still!>
Must have been sodium seconal (Reds).

Seneye is a really neat toy for the tank!!!:grin2:


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## MochaLatte

Which Seneye monitor did you get? The home or reef one?


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## Immortal1

MochaLatte said:


> Which Seneye monitor did you get? The home or reef one?


 Mochalatte, I got the Seneye Reef model.


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## Immortal1

Well, today was a bit of a surprise. Daughter was bugging me to go to our favorite LFS so she could get a few fish. While we were there I noticed this little guy. And he came with a girl friend as well ;-)
So, I now have a few more bows for the tank. Even this young, the colors are pretty impressive. Look forward to the end results in a few years.

Wapoga Red Laser Rainbow (Melanotaenia rubrivittata)


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## Greggz

Boy that's a good looking fish. If I had more room, I would get some.

Similar to Praecox in shape, but with more color. Should also be more long lived and healthy than Praecox.

And by the way, your camera skills are getting better quick. That is a nice pic!!


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## Immortal1

Thanks Gregg - I am trying to improve my skills. Seems my camera skills are improving faster than my plant keeping skills though, lol.
It also helped a bit, I think, that he was a little freaked out by all the monster fish in the tank. I also picked up a male/female pair of Turquoise Rainbow Fish (Melanotaenia lacustris) to go with the pair I already had. The new pair are very nicely colored for their young age. But, they are also REALLY fast at the moment - very little chance of getting a pic tonite. Maybe tomorrow morning.


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## Immortal1

Really liking this new Red Laser Rainbow fish - colors are just crazy. In the video below, from 4 sec to 8 sec he swims across the screen and if you watch the side of his body closely it appears to be flashing between 2 different colors. Not sure if it has something to do with the LED lights or just the fish. Don't seem to get the flashing of colors like that with any of the other bows.

Will be really interesting to see this fish grow up over the next year or so... (definitely watch in HD mode)


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## sdwindansea

I love the video. I was a bit surprised at how "calm" the rainbows are. For some reason I always envision them speeding across the length of the tank.


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## Smithim

Greggz said:


> Immortal1 I thought I was the only one who trained their Bows!!


Gorgeous tank, but the rainbows all schooled up together is quite the sight. Great stuff.


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## Immortal1

sdwindansea said:


> I love the video. I was a bit surprised at how "calm" the rainbows are. For some reason I always envision them speeding across the length of the tank.


Thanks! There are times when things get a bit active but for the most part they seem to point themselves into whatever current they find then just kinda float in the flow.


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## Immortal1

Good morning - it's Sunday and time for a water change and a BIG trim! Unfortunately I am guessing this post will be a bit hard to look at for some but I am hoping it leads to some positive results. 
Not too long ago, I realized the tank was running around 0.5 to 1.0 Phosphate. In the past, I have learned that GSA in my tank seems to like this range. I have sense raised that back up to about 4-5ppm and I believe the GSA is now fighting a loosing battle. I also spent some time dealing with what I also believe was an imballance in my Calcium/Magnesium ratio. I believe that has been corrected as well (now running at least 60ppm Calcium and near as I can measure, around 20ppm Magnesium which equates to about 13-14 dGH).

So, with all that said, I still can't say my tank is 100% "happy" as the pics below might indicate. I am starting to believe my lighting may have something to do with it as I seem to be able to grow beautiful plants in my low tech 20g with a Finnex Planted + (same tap water) and decent plants, sort of, in the wifes 40g high tech tank (same tap water). Was reading a different thread where Maryland Guppy stated 


Maryland Guppy said:


> PAR vs. depth ratios between the two different tanks.
> Shorter tank = dry armpits and higher PAR achieved quicker, usually.


 This got me thinking a bit more on the lighting along with a lot of information from this thread.

Anyway, on to the carnage - so to speak.
















Recently got a several beautiful Lobelia Cardinalis from @burr740. The one in the 20g looks as good as the day I got it. I also have one in the wifes 5g Betta tank (struggling a bit due to lack of lighting) and then there is the one above. Looking a bit tough. From what I can see the newest growth looks very nice and lime green. Hoping over the next few weeks it gets better but I am afraid that what is happening is the little guy is getting a lot of PAR and not much PUR so to speak. Would like to hear what the group thinks about this in particular as it applies to a few other plants in the tank.









Here we have the dwarf rotala. When happy this stuff grows like crazy. Typically each weekend I pull ALL of it out, chop off the bottoms until everybody is the same length then replant the best of the group. A week later there are several Gold medalists and a few that just don't place 









Bacopa Caroliniana - what can I say. When it's in the upper 6" of water it gets huge lime green leaves and does all it can to soak in the light. The internodes do seem to shorten some as the plant gets taller which seems to fit some of the discussion in the linked Kessil thread above. Unfortunately for the other stems of Bacopa Caroliniana they are a at or below the 12" depth and seem to struggle until they get taller (struggle as in smaller leaves with more GSA).

























And here we have several pics of the Mermaid Weed. A prolific grower for sure. Yesterday I shortened the tallest 2 stems and today I see that I will likely have to shorted 2 more stems as they are now about 4-5" from the lights. These guys were the first indication that I had a Magnesium problem about a month ago (I think). For the most part, the pictures tell enough - new growth looks good, old growth not so much. You can also see some Limnophila aromatica 'mini' in one of the pics. The top 1/2" or so looks nice and health, below that - not so much.

















Here we have potentially one of my new favorites - Bacopa sp. 'colorata'. When I had this in my 20g to start with it was an impressive pink. Brought it into the 75g and it struggled for a bit and now seems to be making a run for the surface. there are 2 other stems in here which are the lower portions which were topped. There is new growth showing and growing. You can also see the Hygrophila 'Siamensis 53B' I got from @burr740. Again, another struggling plant which has spent a lot of time in the 16-18" depth below the lights (back to that lighting thing). 

Ok, now that I posted all the carnage and stated what I think - what are your thoughts? I have checked the nitrate level a few time this week and it typically is in the 40-80ppm range (like anybody can tell which is which). The Phosphate is more than 2 but not as blue as 5 so I am guessing atleast 4ppm. The lights as a group are running full power (sort of) from 1pm to 7pm with a 1 hour ramp up and a 2 hour ramp down. The Fluval is set to a maximum of 70% power. The Satellite Plus Pro has a 15 minute ramp up at about 12:30pm to full white, red and blue and a 15 minute ramp down at 7pm. The Satellite Plus, well it is 100% red & blue and about 20% white from 11am to 9pm - not much PAR there, was just hoping to get a little more red/blue into the mix.

Ok, off to tank maintenance - will post more later.


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## The Dude1

I certainly can't provide answers, but in my 11.4 when I was running a single Fugeray everything grew amazingly well.. even downoi and some of the more difficult plants. 9 months later when that died I replaced it with a Beamswork and it is nothing like it was. Constant struggle with green hair algae, some browning and stunting on plants that used to explode with growth. I also have Bacopa Caroliniana in 2 of my high tech 75 gallons... in near the same place in the tank. One uses a 3×54w t5ho fixture.. the other uses 3 LED fixtures, but the Ray 2 does not reach the area where the Bacopa is planted. In the t5ho tank the plant has thick beautiful full size leaves and no loss of lower leaves. In the other the leaves are half the size with algae spots and in some areas it gets spindly enough for portion of the stem to break off. Perhaps it's the density... in the coming weeks I'll tear it all out and replant giving each stem more room, but I personally believe that it is inadequate light leading to inadequate growth. Or perhaps it is related to deficiencies as I just started dosing Ca, Mg, and Fe along with 30% more macro's and perhaps the top tank with the poor Bacopa growth was more deficient. I'm interested in what you determine. I have lobelia cardinalis in both tanks as well, but in different positions. The tank with the excellent Bacopa growth also has excellent lobelia growth... large leaves densely packed despite the plant only being in the tank a fraction of the time as its counterpart in the top tank with the LED's.


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## Maryland Guppy

Shading is the enemy, I have learned this the hard way.
Always trying to thin things out and make a better path to the light.
I also have way too many plants and am slowly learning to part with them.

Do you have an extra light you could put on a timer for 2 hours for like a "High Noon" effect as a test?

Just a thought!


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## Immortal1

Well Guppy - changes are definitely in progress. Pulled the far left driftwood hardscape as it was almost completely falling apart. Bonus - I gained almost 50 sq.in of usable floor space for re-arranging plant groups to give a bit more space (guess you can teach an old dog new tricks). (See 2nd to last pic on post 1 of this thread).

As for lighting, going to change the ramps a bit on the Fluval and run 100% power for maybe 4-5 hours per day. See what that gives me.


----------



## Maryland Guppy

In post#56 almost can't tell the driftwood is even there!>


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## Immortal1

Maryland Guppy said:


> In post#56 almost can't tell the driftwood is even there!>


Yeah, that Java Fern got pretty big. Finally split it in half, gave halve to the LFS and put the other half in the wifes 40g. Since then I have again split it in half and gave away half.
My next FTS should look a bit different >


----------



## Immortal1

Best shot so far of the left side of the tank.









Took a bunch of readings with the Seneye just to get a bit better of a baseline of PAR readings throughout the tank. A little surprised that the Ludwigia next to the glass was only getting about 84 par at the top of the plant. The stem 3 inches away was getting 151 par. As Maryland Guppy stated "Shading is your enemy" and that is no more apparent than just above the Myriophyllum Mattogrossense where there was only about 46 par due to the Crinum shading. Up in the front right corner the Mermaid weed is getting about 84 par and the one further in reads about 150 par.


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## Chlorophile

Well theres certainly a lot going on in those pics. 

I was kind of in a similar position not too long ago and basically.. I ended up pulling every single plant out of the substrate, vacuuming the substrate pretty aggressively.
Got two buckets of water and trimmed only healthy algae free portions of the plants off and put those in a seperate bucket with regular chlorinated water (heck maybe it can help with algae a little)
I pretty much replanted everything in the tank and got the glass super clean and did back to back heavy water changes. 

I think it makes a huge difference. 
Algae likes to colonize and I believe(but I have no evidence) that they release chemical signals to communicate, and the more of it you have in the tank the more spores decide to settle down for a home. 
Reducing the algae levels seems to slow the growth, that could just be due to exponential growth of course. 

If you are wanting to clean things up a bit, I'd say give it a go. 

Make several groupings of the same species and gap the species apart a good bit, they'll grow quicker and fill out the gaps in no time. 

Most importantly I think is you can't have any melting leaves in the tank, they are releasing chemical signals as well and the algae knows it. In fruits you can throw a brown banana in a bag and it'll ripen other fruit.. its a gas that does that but surely there are some gasses the plants release that may dissolve in the water.

p.s. it doesn't look like you are struggling for light in these pics. 
This is what my Rotala Rotundifolia looked like under one Current Sat+ Pro.. 









It is yellow and pink and the tips are so rosette and dense it almost looks emersed. 
The plant stopped doing this after a while, Idk if it was the fresh aquasoil or ADA Powersand. 
Idk if it was related to starting EI. 
But at any rate, adding more light never got it back to this state. 
So don't let lighting be your main concern yet, I wish I had gotten my other ducks in a row before worrying about light.


----------



## Greggz

Chlorophile said:


> Well theres certainly a lot going on in those pics.
> 
> I was kind of in a similar position not too long ago and basically.. I ended up pulling every single plant out of the substrate, vacuuming the substrate pretty aggressively.
> Got two buckets of water and trimmed only healthy algae free portions of the plants off and put those in a seperate bucket with regular chlorinated water (heck maybe it can help with algae a little)
> I pretty much replanted everything in the tank and got the glass super clean and did back to back heavy water changes.
> 
> I think it makes a huge difference.


I was thinking the same thing. If it was in my tank, first thing I would do is make sure everything is uber clean. Vacuum gravel, clean filters, couple water changes to reset things. Remove badly algae infested parts of plants. 

Then double check CO2 pH drop. Some of those symptoms could be CO2 related.

And what is your current dosing? You should post it with everything updated.

One more thing. Was is your complete fish stocking? Still have the BNP?? Just asking as I noticed a pretty big difference when I got rid of mine. They create a lot of waste.


----------



## ChrisX

My tank looks great if I maintain it every week, but as I've been growing out my cichilds, the tops of the plants start growing across the top and shade things. I also have a couple floating plants that I don't want to get rid of, but that also start covering everything.

The fundamental problem my 50g tank has is that the lighting is very concentrated in the middle, and its a relatively short tank. Things grow normally when within 6" of the substrate, but as soon as they get a little taller, they are at the top of the tank within a week. These "rocket stems" then start to block the other plants below. 

If I trim the tops in the middle, then everything divides and I have the same problem except everything is a bit more unkempt. What works best is trimming out the bottom 5" and replanting every week. Of course if I replant, those stems dont grow as fast as the rooted ones.

My new "theory" about lighting is that its better to have more powerful lighting farther away from the tank. The farther away the light is, the more consistent the PAR is going to be from substrate to top. This is important so that growth is more consistent. I cant just decrease the lighting, because then there would not be enough PAR at the substrate.


My next tank will have a tall canopy and the lights will be farther from the surface.

No offense, but its nice to see someone with such a beautiful tank having similar problems.

Bump:


Chlorophile said:


> I think it makes a huge difference.
> Algae likes to colonize and I believe(but I have no evidence) that they release chemical signals to communicate, and the more of it you have in the tank the more spores decide to settle down for a home.
> Reducing the algae levels seems to slow the growth, that could just be due to exponential growth of course.


I was thinking about this the other day, and the only argument against that being true is algae scrubbers.

Algae scrubbers intentionally grow algae, if they were releasing something into the water, then they would be self defeating.

It might be that algae stifles water movement, and thats why algae growth seems to take off once established.


----------



## Chlorophile

ChrisX said:


> My tank looks great if I maintain it every week, but as I've been growing out my cichilds, the tops of the plants start growing across the top and shade things. I also have a couple floating plants that I don't want to get rid of, but that also start covering everything.
> 
> The fundamental problem my 50g tank has is that the lighting is very concentrated in the middle, and its a relatively short tank. Things grow normally when within 6" of the substrate, but as soon as they get a little taller, they are at the top of the tank within a week. These "rocket stems" then start to block the other plants below.
> 
> If I trim the tops in the middle, then everything divides and I have the same problem except everything is a bit more unkempt. What works best is trimming out the bottom 5" and replanting every week. Of course if I replant, those stems dont grow as fast as the rooted ones.
> 
> My new "theory" about lighting is that its better to have more powerful lighting farther away from the tank. The farther away the light is, the more consistent the PAR is going to be from substrate to top. This is important so that growth is more consistent. I cant just decrease the lighting, because then there would not be enough PAR at the substrate.
> 
> 
> My next tank will have a tall canopy and the lights will be farther from the surface.
> 
> No offense, but its nice to see someone with such a beautiful tank having similar problems.
> 
> Bump:
> 
> I was thinking about this the other day, and the only argument against that being true is algae scrubbers.
> 
> Algae scrubbers intentionally grow algae, if they were releasing something into the water, then they would be self defeating.
> 
> It might be that algae stifles water movement, and thats why algae growth seems to take off once established.


Lol is that a sort of philosophical statement regarding algae scrubbers? 
I think the exponential growth is a big part of it, 1000 cells to 2000, to 4k to 8k to 16k to 32k to 64k... to millions, etc. 
If you already have millions of spores, soon you have 2 million.. and the concentration of algae is a big problem, sparse algae vs dense algae, etc. 
But if you can remove 90% today, you set them back weeks.


----------



## Greggz

Immortal1 said:


> Took a bunch of readings with the Seneye just to get a bit better of a baseline of PAR readings throughout the tank. A little surprised that the Ludwigia next to the glass was only getting about 84 par at the top of the plant. The stem 3 inches away was getting 151 par. As Maryland Guppy stated "Shading is your enemy" and that is no more apparent than just above the Myriophyllum Mattogrossense where there was only about 46 par due to the Crinum shading. Up in the front right corner the Mermaid weed is getting about 84 par and the one further in reads about 150 par.


Funny Linn I was going to ask you about the PAR over the L. Rubin. The color looks like it could use a little more light. 

And interesting your readings from not very far apart are so different. Is some of that from the directional nature of LED's? I've noticed in charts that the fall off is pretty quick as soon as you get off center of many LED lights.

And yes, shading can be an issue. Something like that Crinum is probably shading that whole portion of the tank pretty well. Many of the stems you are growing like to get nice direct light.


----------



## ChrisX

Chlorophile said:


> Lol is that a sort of philosophical statement regarding algae scrubbers?
> I think the exponential growth is a big part of it, 1000 cells to 2000, to 4k to 8k to 16k to 32k to 64k... to millions, etc.
> If you already have millions of spores, soon you have 2 million.. and the concentration of algae is a big problem, sparse algae vs dense algae, etc.
> But if you can remove 90% today, you set them back weeks.



I have a UV sterilzer that several months back cleared up an algae bloom and the water has been crystal clear since. My tank still has algae on plants! It happens where there is shading and poor circulation. 

If the UV sterilizer is actually killing algae spoores, which I believe it is, then it should cut down on multiplication through the water column. However, i don't really know.


----------



## Immortal1

Greggz said:


> I was thinking the same thing. If it was in my tank, first thing I would do is make sure everything is uber clean. Vacuum gravel, clean filters, couple water changes to reset things. Remove badly algae infested parts of plants.
> 
> Then double check CO2 pH drop. Some of those symptoms could be CO2 related.
> 
> And what is your current dosing? You should post it with everything updated.
> 
> One more thing. Was is your complete fish stocking? Still have the BNP?? Just asking as I noticed a pretty big difference when I got rid of mine. They create a lot of waste.


Filter was cleaned 2 weeks ago but am thinking of doing it again (does not take long with the 2 BNP in the tank). 
Probably vacuumed 20-30% of the substrate during water change and cleaned all the glass. Typically try to vacuum every water change but have missed 2 or 3 this year.

Did a bunch of testing this morning. The water storage tank underneath (sump) has a sponge filter running 24//7 and the water had been sitting for 2-3 days. pH by API was 7.8 by my eye. So, I put the probes from BOTH Milwaukee controllers in the sump and got 7.7 on both. Those same probes show me dropping pH down to 6.3 with the co2. Any lower and the fish complain. I did move the 2 small circulation fans around to get more of a "stir" in the tank. Back right corner pointed along the back wall and back left corner pointed towards the front left corner. Filter discharge is in the back right corner. Before the water change, the phosphate was down to 2 or 3ppm again. Will test and adjust that variable a little alter tonite. 

Fish stocking, I really should have a nice spreadsheet on that one 
(5) Desert Rainbow fish (Melanotaenia splendida tatei) - 2 boys, 3 girls
(4) Yellow Rainbow fish (Melanotaenia herbertaxelrodi) - 2 boys, 2 girls
(4) New Guinea Red Rainbow (Glossolepis incisus) - 2 boys, 2 girls
(3) Turquoise Rainbow Fish (Melanotaenia lacustris) - 2 boys, 1 girl (still pretty small)
(2) Gidomen Rainbow fish (Glossolepis sp. Gidomen) - 1 boy, 1 girl
(2) Wapoga Red Laser Rainbow (Melanotaenia rubrivittata ) - 1 boy, 1 girl (still pretty small)
(1) Marci Rainbow fish (Hybrid) - 1 boy
(2) Siamese Algea Eater (Crossocheilus siamensis) - both fat and large
(2) Panda Garra (Garra flavatra) - unknown
(2) Pepper Cory (Corydoras paleatus) - little guys
(4) Albino Aeneus Cory Cat (Corydoras aeneus) - unknown
(2) Bushy Nose Pleco (Ancistrus sp. L144) - 1 boy, 1 girl
(2) Black Skirt Tetra (Gymnocorymbus ternetzi) - original fish I started with
(3) Serpae Tetra (Hyphessobycon eques) - original fish I started with
(4) Amano Shrimp

Bump:


ChrisX said:


> I have a UV sterilzer that several months back cleared up an algae bloom and the water has been crystal clear since. * My tank still has algae on plants! It happens where there is shading* and poor circulation.
> 
> If the UV sterilizer is actually killing algae spoores, which I believe it is, then it should cut down on multiplication through the water column. However, i don't really know.


I am thinking the big Crinum is part of the problem in places. Or, and this is just my opinion, the plants in the 12"-18" below lights are just not getting anything other than white lite so to speak (PAR without PUR)


----------



## Maryland Guppy

And I thought I was heavily stocked now with 9 Cory's and 32 miniature shrimp!>

I'm in the market for more shrimp too.

I get to view the Cory's especially at feeding time they must have a good sense of smell or something.
Once the food is released it takes about 2 minutes for them to emerge from the depths.

Would only think I have 5 shrimp because that's all I can find @ any one time.:grin2:


----------



## Greggz

Immortal1 said:


> Those same probes show me dropping pH down to 6.3 with the co2. Any lower and the fish complain. I did move the 2 small circulation fans around to get more of a "stir" in the tank.


Well Linn it sure looks like your pH drop is very good. If your filter is getting pretty dirty in two weeks, there must be a lot of waste. Are you just running one filter?? I've always gone with at least two. Keeps less load on each one, and when you clean one the bio field of the other is not disturbed. 

How much flow do you get from the circulation fans? Are plants being blown around? The reason I ask is that I actually removed my circulation fans, and actually noticed a decrease in algae. Nice gentle flow is good, plants bending being blown over is not. I do run three filters, so I get enough flow just from them.

And interesting seeing your complete fish list. I know you love your fish (as do I), but being honest this could be a source of some issues. I counted 35 total fish. Now I know some are smaller varieties, but for reference that's the same number I have in my 120G, and I consider myself heavily if not over stocked. I am pretty certain everything would be easier for me if I lightened my fish load.

And I think I count 12 bottom feeders/algae eaters. In reality that many probably contribute more to algae than they consume. 

So I hate to say this, but if it were me I would reduce the load a bit.......or get a bigger tank!!:grin2:


----------



## Chlorophile

ChrisX said:


> I have a UV sterilzer that several months back cleared up an algae bloom and the water has been crystal clear since. My tank still has algae on plants! It happens where there is shading and poor circulation.
> 
> If the UV sterilizer is actually killing algae spoores, which I believe it is, then it should cut down on multiplication through the water column. However, i don't really know.


Hmm, not sure if UV sterilizers work or not on algae, thought they killed bacteria that cause grey water but thats all...


----------



## Immortal1

Well @Greggz - yes it is a lot of fish! And in a year the new bows will be getting pretty big. I am also assuming the tetras will be gone as they are getting quite old.
Now, as for those @#$% BNP, I wouldn't mind dropping them off at the LFS but the wife really likes them so.... anyway.
As for the cory cats I would be curious how much those little guys poop - really see anything from them. The BNP and Bows on the other hand, well LOL, they can be impressive.

I would consider 2 filters but there is just not enough room under there for that. I would consider dragging the AquaTOP 500 out of the shed as it has a lot more bio filtration capacity but just not thrilled with it's other issues. As for the circulation fans, I am using Koralia 425 gph nano fans. Unless the plant is right in front of the fan, you really don't see any plant bowing in the current so to speak. If you watch the pearling bubbles (at least thats what I call the dirt debris) in the tank you can see a nice gentle "stir" in the tank.

I really need to stop buying fish for my fish tank LOL.

Bump:


Maryland Guppy said:


> And I thought I was heavily stocked now with 9 Cory's and 32 miniature shrimp!>
> 
> I'm in the market for more shrimp too.
> 
> I get to view the Cory's especially at feeding time they must have a good sense of smell or something.
> Once the food is released it takes about 2 minutes for them to emerge from the depths.
> 
> Would only think I have 5 shrimp because that's all I can find @ any one time.:grin2:


Yeah, now that I look at it, I do have a few fish in there. Was chuckling about your 5 shrimp comment as I thought for sure I only had 1 amano shrimp until my daughter pointed out 4 of them in one spot! Have not seen that many since.


----------



## Maryland Guppy

Immortal1 said:


> I really need to stop buying fish for my fish tank LOL.


Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it a "Planted Tank"???
What's with the Phish thing?>


----------



## Immortal1

Maryland Guppy said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it a "Planted Tank"???
> What's with the Phish thing?>


LOL, well SOMEBODY has to take care of your bows....


----------



## Maryland Guppy

LMAO! Remember the "Free Lease" agreement. I may want them shipped one day!>

That would also be "Boes"


----------



## The Dude1

Greggz said:


> So I hate to say this, but if it were me I would reduce the load a bit.......or get a bigger tank!!:grin2:


Here lies the inescapable truth... a bigger tank is ALWAYS the solution. A 300 gallon tank would solve all of these issues.. that's what I tell my wife


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## Immortal1

Time for another update on the 75g. Given the, well slightly overstocked nature of my tank I decided to switch from my Eheim Pro 4+ back to the AquaTOP CF500 that I had sitting in the shed. The AquaTOP certainly is a larger filter which should give me some more filtering capacity. As a bonus, there is a few gph more flow as well (ok, about double the flow). 
Did some trimming and a bit of re-arranging today as well. Trying to figure out how to maintain / trim the Crinum as it has pretty much taken over the tank. I also added a couple stems of Alternanthera reineckii cardinalis - hopefully 3rd time is a charm as the 1st 2 times this plant pretty much withered up. Hopefully the video below will give some idea as to the coloring of various plants as I still have not fully mastered taking plant pics that look like what I see in person. 

The Ludwigia repens 'Rubin' has finally developed a nice brownish red - vast improvement from a few weeks ago. The newest leaves of the Barclaya Longifolia Red are also showing more of a deeper/darker color. Towards the end of the video as I was looking at the Mermaid Weed I tried adjusting one of the camera settings hoping to get closer to the correct color - I think I finally got it. Anyway, how you enjoy the video.


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## Immortal1

Tanks are looking relaxing this evening...


----------



## Phil Edwards

That's really starting to fill in well! After getting caught up on what's going on in there, have you considered putting a bubble wand in there to run while the lights are out? I think it would benefit both the fish and beneficial microbes since the tank's overstocked, and should help reduce some algae over time.


----------



## Immortal1

Phil Edwards said:


> That's really starting to fill in well! After getting caught up on what's going on in there, have you considered putting a bubble wand in there to run while the lights are out? I think it would benefit both the fish and beneficial microbes since the tank's overstocked, and should help reduce some algae over time.


Thanks Phil! Actually have a small sponge filter in the back, right of center running 24/7 and have a 6-7" long bubble bar that runs from midnite to 6am daily. 
Would be nice if I could clear up some of the GSA in the tank. Hoping a change in lighting equipment this weekend will make a difference.


----------



## Greggz

Phil Edwards said:


> That's really starting to fill in well! After getting caught up on what's going on in there, have you considered putting a bubble wand in there to run while the lights are out? I think it would benefit both the fish and beneficial microbes since the tank's overstocked, and should help reduce some algae over time.


Phil good advice in general. I have found very heavy oxygen overnight to be very beneficial to both fish and plants. Little mentioned, but I believe very helpful.


----------



## Phil Edwards

Immortal1 said:


> Thanks Phil! Actually have a small sponge filter in the back, right of center running 24/7 and have a 6-7" long bubble bar that runs from midnite to 6am daily.
> Would be nice if I could clear up some of the GSA in the tank. Hoping a change in lighting equipment this weekend will make a difference.


LOL, you're way ahead of me. 

I usually find that increasing PO4 or reducing Fe helps get rid of GSA. I'm personally a fan of increasing PO4 as the plants tend to appreciate it.

Bump:


Greggz said:


> Phil good advice in general. I have found very heavy oxygen overnight to be very beneficial to both fish and plants. Little mentioned, but I believe very helpful.


I'm considering doing this in my tank, but it would require some fancy footwork to free up a space on the power bar for another timer. Thankfully I don't have any fish in there right now. Perhaps the sump and bio-bale media is sufficient to increase oxygen. We'll see how well I can get rid of the BBA that's starting to take over the wood when I get home.


----------



## Immortal1

Well it has been an interesting Saturday. Picked up the new Radion lights yesterday but was not able to set them up as I needed to come up with some modifications to the mounting system. So, bright and early this morning it was out to the garage for a little Saturday morning fabrication session. First problem, the "used" RMS arms I got were for an XR30 light so I grabbed some 16ga steel and ended up with these. Must admit, they look a lot better after a heavy application of semi gloss powder coat.









The next problem was a missing "clamp" piece (really don't know what else to call it). So I grabbed a hunk of 4" PVC pipe I had laying around, cut it up a bit, heated the various pieces with the heat gun until they flattened out, then glued the stack together with PVC cement. Once the cement set it was time for some sculpting with the various tools I had available. End result turned out pretty good I think. And more importantly it works just as good as the original.

















Of course it looks a little better with some Krylon Fusion semi-gloss. Actually really hard to tell as the new lights are REALLY brite!









Speaking of the lights - wow! at first when I plugged them in I thought, yes they are bright but really hard to tell with just my eyes. So, out came the Seneye for some quick readings. Yes Gregg, I started a spreadsheet! Just not really done adding information yet.
With all 5 channels at 100%, 17" of water and the lights 25.5" above the substrate I got 144 PAR with 64 PUR.... oops.
With just the Red channel at 100% in the same location I got 14 PAR with 91 PUR. Red and Blue at 100% gave me 25 PAR and 84 PUR.
After a bunch of adjusting, I settled on Blue-80%, Cool White-80%, Warm White-25%, Green-10%, and Hyper Red-45%.
This gave me around 90 PAR and 63% PUR.









Still working on my camera settings with the new lights. In person, the tank actually "looks" not as bright as the other lights. But the colors look better - or should I say the contrast looks better? Don't know. I'm sure there will be many more hours of adjusting things to get a more vibrant look without going crazy on the PAR. Anyway, my arms dry now so I guess I better get back to the tank maintenance.


----------



## Greggz

I've got to say, those are some pretty cool looking lights! And nice fabrication to get them hung nicely.

Looks like they have a nice wide range of PAR and PUR.

Looking forward to seeing where this goes.


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## Immortal1

Thank-you Gregg. Been awhile since I got to do a little Garage Time. Kinda curious where this goes as well.


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## Immortal1

Thank-you @Greggz for generating the info below. Was playing around with my new lighting setup and was curious how it might compare to a good T5HO setup - mainly your 6 bulb substrate graph. Specifically was curious how my PUR curve (not just the % number) compared. 










This was taken at the substrate.


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## burr740

OK how did you cut that 16 gauge so nice, with a plasma I assume?

Please tell me it's a hand held job and you dont actually have a CNC table!


----------



## Greggz

Immortal1 said:


> Thank-you @Greggz for generating the info below. Was playing around with my new lighting setup and was curious how it might compare to a good T5HO setup - mainly your 6 bulb substrate graph. Specifically was curious how my PUR curve (not just the % number) compared.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was taken at the substrate.


Hey Linn that's interesting. Your readings from that fixture look awfully close to mine with all six bulbs going. I'm getting just a bit more PAR, but I'm sure you could as well if you wanted to. 

Have you taken readings offset from center yet? I am very curious about that. That PAR reading from my six bulb set up is actually right at the front of my tank. I didn't move the large driftwood to get readings from dead center. 

Basically I'm curious to see how it drops off front/back and left/right. And just so you know, there is some drop off in T5HO as you get to the end of the tubes, so coverage is not perfect. 

All in all good stuff and that light looks it is a very good one.


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## Immortal1

Because @Greggz asked  
Lights are not at full power, but I figured the lenzing would likely be consistent regardless of the power setting.
The light tested is centered on the left half of the tank - i.e. 12" from the left wall and 12" from the center support beam.
The light is also centered front to back - i.e. 9" from the front or back of the tank.
There is 9" from the light source to the water line and for this test, all readings were taken at a depth of 9" of water. All readings were taken in a direct line Left to Right at 9" from the front glass.

03" from left wall = 066 par
06" from left wall = 097 par
09" from left wall = 110 par
12" from left wall = 108 par
15" from left wall = 100 par
18" from left wall = 103 par
21" from left wall = 078 par

No guarantees I was exactly 9" deep for every reading but I was probably +/- 1/2" or less. Based on the above readings, I would say the HEI lens works as advertised 

I would like to try this test at the substrate but there is simply too many plants in the way to make an effective test. Given the above information, I would think the substrate numbers would be even more consistent. FYI, the tank currently has 17" of water column.


----------



## Immortal1

burr740 said:


> OK how did you cut that 16 gauge so nice, with a plasma I assume?
> 
> Please tell me it's a hand held job and you dont actually have a CNC table!


Not sure how I missed this post - used the CNC that I have sitting in the corner of the garage....
Ok, just kidding. I actually used a jig saw with a metal blade to get the basic cutting done. Have done this for various other metal fabrication projects as well.
Once the basic cutout was done, out came the angle grinder with a flap disk. This did the brunt of the shaping. Both pieces were stuck together in the vise so they are identical. Then flipped one of the pieces over and stuck them back together so that the proportions were also more or less exact. Fair amount of hand filing got the edges nice a smooth before the drilling and powder coating.

Bump: Ok, now it's time for an update now that I have had the new lights running for a week. In my opinion, they are a vast improvement. Not sure how well that improvement will turn out in the pics to follow. What I am seeing in person is;

A little less PAR on the floor of the tank compaired to the previous lights. But, the plants seem to be growing better with less GSA.
The higher level plants are also showing less GSA than with the previous lighting. But, the PAR levels are basically the same as what I had before
One other thing I am noticing is the Crinum was getting some BBA with the old lights. Not surprising as the water was about 1 inch below the lights. Now the light source is 9" away from the water. I removed the few tentacles that had BBA and have yet to see any return.
I think with the old lights I had more pearling at the end of the day. With the new lights there is still some pearling, but it seems more of a general pearling - kinda minimal pearling and not the in your face pearling that I had before.
Anyway, time for some pics...
Basically the overall look of the tank now. Not much different that the previous FTS other than the Ludwigia repens 'Rubin' grew a few inches and more importantly to me, the upper leaves are not covered in GSA as they were with the old lights.

























General shot of the front left corner. Looks so much better with BOTH sides of the glass all cleaned up...









In recent memory, my Limnophila aromatica 'mini' has not looked this good. Used to be the top layer of leaves were green and everything below that was covered in algae.









This is one of the other plants, Myriophyllum Mattogrossense that has always seemed to struggle. Now, it actually looks pretty healthy.









Still hoping the Pogo Kimberly will bounce back. Kinda a crappy picture but hopefully you can see the top of the far right Kimberly looks pretty stunted. Probably time to cut that part off and let some new growth emerge.









Good old Mermaid weed. Finally the upper leaves are looking more yellow than green. Hopefully they will grow nicely and I can start cutting off the ratty bottoms.









Gotta throw a little love at the wifes tank. It used to have a Satellite Pro and a Satellite plus. Now it has both the Fluval 2.0 lights, running 7 hours at a whopping 60%. Par levels on the floor are high 70's to low 80's. Whats really interesting - this is the first time I can ever remember this tank pearling. Keep my fingers crossed for good growth.


----------



## Phil Edwards

I will not rehang my Radeons. I will not rehang my Radeons. I will not rehang my Radeons...

What version and generation are those?


Not much else to say other than if you're still wondering how to trim those Crinum, just cut the outer, older, leaves off until you get the plant the size you want. It's exactly the same as trimming an Echinodorus.


----------



## Immortal1

Hey Phil - I have the G4 freshwater units. Been running for 9 days now - wife and I are noticing how much better various plants look and really this is the only change. I likely am paying closer attention to what levels of ferts are in the tank, not just dumping in what ever. Don't know if you read it but at one point the Nitrates were almost down to 0ppm and before I tested I simply could not figure out why the plants were looking sickly. I will say this - I DONT like the API Nitrate test kit. There, I said it.

I have trimmed some of the older, thicker, longer strands already. Now that it is growing like a weed I am less hesitant to "trim". When I first got it I was very hesitant about even looking at it funny for fear it would die.

So, about rehanging the Radions....


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## Phil Edwards

Not gunna do it. Wouldn't be prudent at this juncture.

I love my Radeons, just not for a tank with the dimensions mine has. A 75 or 90? Now that's a different story.


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## Immortal1

Well, it is once again Saturday, and coincidentally St. Patrick's Day. Received a beautiful shipment of Ludwigia sp Red from @burr740 on Thursday and based on a good recommendation, I spent the early morning hours re-arranging and trimming the right hand side of the tank. Was a bit amazed how much Myriophyllum Mattogrossense had grown in front of the middle hard scape. I probably pitched 20%, and moved another 30% to the wifes tank. Given that it grows vertically faster than the Limnophila aromatica 'mini' I switched the two around. The Pogo Kimberly is now in the back right. I now has plenty of room to grow and it seems the light is plenty strong in that area (hoping it works out).



















The left side has not changed much since last weekend, other than the plants seem to be growing nicely. When I first received the Myriophyllum Red Stem it was a healthy grouping of 4 stems. Then after a while it started looking pretty unhappy. Not exactly sure which of the variables I have changed made it happy again, but at least 1 stem seems VERY happy now. Hoping the other pick up speed as well.









And as a small side note to @Greggz, my nemesis Alternanthera reineckii cardinalis is once again back in the 75g. I think this time it just might hang around for awhile :grin2:
And as a parting shot, a little different angle to the FTS


----------



## Immortal1

So, I was doing some serious reading on Dennis Wongs web site, specifically this section regarding gaseous exchange. 
Having the use of a Seneye for recording data I figured I would do some testing (Mad Scientist stuff). Something that occurred to me was that I could turn off my sponge filter and circulation fans during the ramp up period (in this case, 10am to about 1pm). The 2 images below, more or less, layout what is happening with my co2 system. From what I can see, the co2 curve does seem to mimic what Dennis is discussing. Will give this a try for a few weeks and see how it works.


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## ChrisX

Ive noticed that ph seems to level off. Dennis explains why.

In my tank it hits 6.5 (from 8.1 tap) and stays there. I keep it on 24 7 so the ph never changes. Use a venturi to add o2 for fish.

I wonder what dennis think abput 24 7 co2? Breed healthy keyhole cichlids in this tank so fish must like it.

Imo, based on what dennis said, its pretty easy to reach that plateau equilibrium because as the differential gets greater, more off gassing occurs.

Someone remind me again why ppl turn off co2 at night?


----------



## SingAlongWithTsing

ChrisX said:


> Ive noticed that ph seems to level off. Dennis explains why.
> 
> In my tank it hits 6.5 (from 8.1 tap) and stays there. I keep it on 24 7 so the ph never changes. Use a venturi to add o2 for fish.
> 
> I wonder what dennis think abput 24 7 co2? Breed healthy keyhole cichlids in this tank so fish must like it.
> 
> Imo, based on what dennis said, its pretty easy to reach that plateau equilibrium because as the differential gets greater, more off gassing occurs.
> 
> Someone remind me again why ppl turn off co2 at night?


plants dont use co2 at nite iirc


----------



## ChrisX

SingAlongWithTsing said:


> plants dont use co2 at nite iirc


It was a rhetorical question.

IME, turning off co2 means you have to run it at a much higher rate to get back to the desired level, and despite best efforts, pH is still not stable through the entire light cycle.


----------



## Phil Edwards

Chris,

Like most really old timers, I used to run CO2 24/7 since solenoids weren't standard issue on regulators back then and it worked. Once solenoids became more easily available, people started putting their regulators on the same schedule as their lights and it worked. Then folks started dicking around with staggering gas and lighting schedule and it worked. One thing a lot of folks noticed was that pearling didn't start right away and peaked later on in the photoperiod. That's when folks started staggering their schedules. If you're looking to chase a consistent plateau/concentration, 24/7 will work and likely not gas anything.  Keep in mind, when folks were 24/7-ing it, we could still count the bubbles going into our tanks. 

Cheers,
Phil


----------



## Immortal1

Today I have some questions for the experts. Now that I have the new lights over the tank I have been making minor adjustments to color and how long they run. Right now the substrate PAR right under one of the lights is mid 80's. Not crazy, but high enough. The PUR, according to the Seneye is 62-63% - numerically a vast improvement over what I had. Has it made a huge difference to the plants in the tank - probably not. But in my opinion, some. 
Some basic data:
pH = 7.8 (used to be stable at 7.6, not sure why it has been higher lately).
GH = 11 degrees (API test kit)
KH = 8 degrees (API test kit)
Ca = 50ppm (API Test)
Mg = 17ppm (estimated based on dGH & Ca data)
Weekly dosing
NO3 = 43.5ppm (personally think this is too much, will likely run less)
P = 3.51ppm (Have been trying to get closer to 5ppm when I use the API test. Typically I get something darker than 2.0ppm but definitely NOT blue like the 5.0ppm)
K = 46.5ppm (Probably more than I need, but should not hurt anything)
Fe = 0.45ppm (Burr 11.15) 

*The good....*
This Myriophyllum Mattogrossense is the happiest I have seen it since I put it in the tank. Grows faster than expected and has little visible algae.









The Mermaid Weed on the right, at least the top 2" also seems happier than it ever has. The Ludwigia sp Red (new addition) seems to be doing well. The color is holding up and there are many new side shoots).









Another pic of the Ludwigia sp Red









The Hygrophila 'Siamensis 53B' used to be covered with GSA. Newest growth seems to have very little and the color looks better than it has in my opinion.








*
The less than good.*
My wonderful Pogo Kimberly... Was looking a little rough about a month ago, now looking better. Wish it had more color.









The Ludwigia Rubins has been showing nice color, but...









And I must admit, the Rubins growth over the last few weeks has been pretty impressive - best I can tell, this is 1 weeks worth that I cut off the bottom of the tallest stem









*And the interesting...*
I trimmed out at least 10 leaves (or what ever I would call them) from the Crinum. Yes, this one was 48" long. Most of the others that were trimmed were more than 36" long.










So, if your still with me (long post) - any thoughts on the fertilizer dosing based on what you are seeing in the pictures? The curling of the Ludwigia leaves made me think not enough Ca - but 50ppm is more than many RO tanks on here run so that did not make sense. Burr thought maybe a micro issue but had not seen any pics yet.

I continue to clean some GDA off the glass every 3-4 days which from what I have read here would indicate "High light coupled with heavy water column fertilization (Common in EI dosing tanks)". Surprise surprise.

The GSA that I have been getting on the leaves FOREVER would seem to indicate
"Poor/stressed plant health (Poor CO2, or other growth parameters)" - I think for the most part my plants are reasonably healthy-other might disagree. Co2 I already documented above.
"Damaged leaves, abundance of old growth" - There are some, I won't lie to you. But less than in the past.
"Plant stress due to unstable tank parameters" - Hmmm, maybe. Not sure what parameters he would be indicating. Ammonia has not gone over 0.0ppm in, well, years. Nitrite the same. Nitrate, well that can be all over the place in my tank. Phosphate has been atleast 2.0ppm for more than a few months, probably longer. Ca/Mg ratio has been roughly 3:1 for most (all?) of this year.

So, thoughts? critiques? bashing? I am open to whatever - as long as it's helpful :wink2:


----------



## Maryland Guppy

Immortal1 said:


> So, thoughts? critiques? bashing? I am open to whatever - as long as it's helpful :wink2:


So I am reading that you have improvement compared to the past.
Suggest you leave things as they are and monitor for a bit.
Change only one thing at a time and wait for a result before changing another.


----------



## burr740

I think No3 and K is probably too high. May or may not be causing a problem, but most nutrients compete for uptake by the plants with other nutrients. K specifically competes with Ca and Mg.

So just because there may be no toxic threshold for K, doesnt mean you can run it up hundreds of ppms without repercussions. Not saying K is your problem, just something to think about

Here's a rough explanation to give you the general idea - The ratio between plant nutrients explained | CANNA Gardening USA

Also since macros are currently so high, purely from a limiting/non-limiting perspective, micros are probably a bit too low.


----------



## Immortal1

Maryland Guppy said:


> So I am reading that you have improvement compared to the past.
> Suggest you leave things as they are and monitor for a bit.
> Change only one thing at a time and wait for a result before changing another.


Agreed - one at a time...
Tougher question - which one?
I don't think changing the lighting (more PAR) is going to help at this point - but it might.
I don't think making changes to Ca or Mg will help either.
I think, at this point, my co2 distribution is pretty good and I seem to be getting atleast 1.0pH drop AND it holds consistent throughout the lighting period.
If API is to be believed, 40-80ppm NO3 should be plenty. But then again, who can really tell the difference in the API test kit 
Gotta think I have enough potassium (K) 
More phosphate might help with the GSA, but could effect something else (one of the micros?)
So, running out of options...
Thinking the answer may be in the micro world - but that is NOT my specialty.

Bump:


burr740 said:


> I think No3 and K is probably too high. May or may not be causing a problem, but most nutrients compete for uptake by the plants with other nutrients. K specifically competes with Ca and Mg.
> 
> So just because there may be no toxic threshold for K, doesnt mean you can run it up hundreds of ppms without repercussions. Not saying K is your problem, just something to think about
> 
> Here's a rough explanation to give you the general idea - The ratio between plant nutrients explained | CANNA Gardening USA
> 
> Also since macros are currently so high, purely from a limiting/non-limiting perspective, micros are probably a bit too low.


Thank-you for the input Burr! Will give the link a read. Once done with that, will probably work on some new macro dosing levels and leave the micros at 3 doses of 0.15ppm Fe for now. Will give it a few weeks and report back.


----------



## Greggz

OK first of all you said you were looking for advice from the experts, which I am not, but I will give you my two cents anyway.

Many of the plants have responded well to the additional light. Myrio, Mermaid Weed, L. Sp. Red, etc. all look much better. Color in general is better, which most likely is the result of the additional PAR. So you have some good trends, and are going in the right direction. So small changes and patience will be your friend.

Personally I doubt the issue is too many macros. I’ve run those type of numbers with pretty good success. If anything, I would lower N a bit. My K has been at your levels ever since I went RO, as mine gets loaded with it dosing K2CO3. That being said, it certainly doesn’t NEED to be that high. 

If it were my tank, here’s what I would focus on. 

You mention you have at least a 1.0 pH drop. I would monitor this very closely, and get it closer to 1.3 or 1.4. And to do it right, make sure you have a calibrated pH meter, and get an accurate measure of degassed pH. If letting a cup sit out, this can take three full days. Take your time and get it right. In my tank, even small drops from my normal full pH drop can cause subtle issues quickly. It’s the very first thing I check carefully when I see any wonkiness. Getting it right eliminates lots of other issues.

Next I would remove the Crinum. In my opinion, it blocks light, reduces flow, and catches debris. This would give you more room to create some space between the species. They might appreciate some elbow room, and get better flow and access to light.

Do you vacuum as part of tank maintenance? If not, I would give the entire bottom a good vac. I do so with every water change. Especially if you pull a group to prune it, vac that area while the plants are out of the tank. It’s even more important with a heavier fish load. 

What is your filter cleaning schedule? I have three, and each gets cleaned at least every 6 weeks, but most times closer to 4 weeks. Again, with a heavily stocked tank it’s even more important. 

How is your surface agitation and aeration? More is better. I run an air stone after the CO2 period, as I believe the extra oxygen is good for the tank health in general. 

And as to the heavily stocked tank, I’ve said it before, but I would remove most if not all of the bottom feeders. BN plecos do nothing but create waste. Getting rid of mine long ago made a quick improvement in everything for me. The Garra’s create more waste than any cleaning they provide. My tank is heavily stocked, and yours is even more so. I really believe it would help. 

I would also try using Purigen. I’ve been using it for some time and believe it’s helpful especially in a heavily stocked tank, as it helps to remove organics. 

I would also give daily micros a try. I’ve been dosing daily .15 for about 5 months now, and my tank has never been better. More light, more macros, more demand for micros. Make it non limiting and see what happens.

So once again, just looking at your tank as if it were mine. And those are the things I would consider trying. 

And lastly, don’t get me wrong, I think your tank has come a long way, and is looking great. Lot’s of progress, positive changes, and lots to be proud of. Now you are in that fine tuning stage, which means getting everything just a little bit better, a combination of which can make a big impact.


----------



## Immortal1

Greggz said:


> OK first of all you said you were looking for advice from the experts, which I am not,


but I will give you my two cents anyway. I would expect nothing less, 

Many of the plants have responded well to the additional light. Myrio, Mermaid Weed, L. Sp. Red, etc. all look much better. Color in general is better, which most likely is the result of the additional PAR. So you have some good trends, and are going in the right direction. So small changes and patience will be your friend. Agreed, most plants look better. And once in awhile I can deal with patience.

Personally I doubt the issue is too many macros. I’ve run those type of numbers with pretty good success. If anything, I would lower N a bit. My K has been at your levels ever since I went RO, as mine gets loaded with it dosing K2CO3. That being said, it certainly doesn’t NEED to be that high. 

If it were my tank, here’s what I would focus on. ...

You mention you have at least a 1.0 pH drop. I would monitor this very closely, and get it closer to 1.3 or 1.4. And to do it right, make sure you have a calibrated pH meter, and get an accurate measure of degassed pH. If letting a cup sit out, this can take three full days. Take your time and get it right. In my tank, even small drops from my normal full pH drop can cause subtle issues quickly. It’s the very first thing I check carefully when I see any wonkiness. Getting it right eliminates lots of other issues. Funny you mention it - my Milwaukee controller is at least 2 years old so I just got a new probe for it. The LFS has the Milwaukee calibration fluid (4.01 and 7.01) so I usually calibrate once a month. The interesting thing I learned calibrating the new probe was setting the 7ph seemed to go quickly (2-3 minutes in the calibration fluid). The 4ph fluid on the other hand, the probe adjustment seemed to drift lower the longer you left the probe into the fluid. So, with any luck I got it calibrated correctly. For a degassed measurement, I have 4 air stones running in the 20g sump. Generally speaking, overnite is long enough to get a fully degassed reading. According to the previous probe, my degassed number has been pretty consistent at 7.6ph. Lately my GH tap number has been going down and oddly enough, my new pH probe is now showing a degassed number of 7.8ph. Not sure if they are connected or not. Right now I am shooting for a consistent drop to 6.6pH. The fish don't seem to mind that number so I will stay with that for a few more weeks.

Next I would remove the Crinum. In my opinion, it blocks light, reduces flow, and catches debris. This would give you more room to create some space between the species. They might appreciate some elbow room, and get better flow and access to light. Agreed - it does block some light and catches a lot of debris. Probably reduces flow as well, but the spray bar can give the plants on the far side of the tank a little wiggle. I am guessing in another month or so, the Crinum will be reduced in size greatly.

Do you vacuum as part of tank maintenance? If not, I would give the entire bottom a good vac. I do so with every water change. Especially if you pull a group to prune it, vac that area while the plants are out of the tank. It’s even more important with a heavier fish load. I definitely do a fair amount of vacuuming during each Sundays maintenance cycle. 

What is your filter cleaning schedule? I have three, and each gets cleaned at least every 6 weeks, but most times closer to 4 weeks. Again, with a heavily stocked tank it’s even more important. With the AquaTOP 500 filter I am finding that going a month before cleaning is easily doable - working towards 6 week intervals. With the Eheim, 2 weeks was really pushing it.

How is your surface agitation and aeration? More is better. I run an air stone after the CO2 period, as I believe the extra oxygen is good for the tank health in general. I have a sponge filter tucked behind the Melon sword. It runs 24/7 except during the 2.5 hour CO2 run up before the lights turn on. I also have a air bar that runs from 9pm to 6am.

And as to the heavily stocked tank, I’ve said it before, but I would remove most if not all of the bottom feeders. BN plecos do nothing but create waste. Getting rid of mine long ago made a quick improvement in everything for me. The Garra’s create more waste than any cleaning they provide. My tank is heavily stocked, and yours is even more so. I really believe it would help. You are probably right - just not sure when this might happen. But something to definitely keep in mind.

I would also try using Purigen. I’ve been using it for some time and believe it’s helpful especially in a heavily stocked tank, as it helps to remove organics. I have a few bags of the stuff - will add it to the filter during the next cleaning.

I would also give daily micros a try. I’ve been dosing daily .15 for about 5 months now, and my tank has never been better. More light, more macros, more demand for micros. Make it non limiting and see what happens. I am 100% in agreement with this comment

So once again, just looking at your tank as if it were mine. And those are the things I would consider trying. Thank-you for you comments and time spent responding! I am definitely developing a direction. 

And lastly, don’t get me wrong, I think your tank has come a long way, and is looking great. Lot’s of progress, positive changes, and lots to be proud of. Now you are in that fine tuning stage, which means getting everything just a little bit better, a combination of which can make a big impact. :grin2: Really appreciate the comments!


----------



## Immortal1

Good evening everyone. Well today was one of those days were one leaves work a little early and decides enough is enough. One way or another I am going to figure out what the heck is wrong with the water in this tank.

2 days ago, I was talking to @burr740 about various issues and he suggested to raise the Ca by 10ppm. Should only take a couple days to see a difference if Ca was the problem. Well, not much difference was noted today.

So, I began my methodical "Mad Scientist" approach. I have plenty of distilled water available - so, how does it react to the API Nitrate and Phosphate test kits.
Nitrate test of 10ml of Distilled water using 20 drops of bottle 1 and 20 drops of bottle 2 (keep following along, there is a reason to my madness).









Phosphate test of 5ml of Distilled water using the normal 6 drops of bottle 1 and 6 drops of bottle 2









So, it would seem Distilled water does not have Nitrate or Phosphate. This is good and will help with the rest of this testing!

Here we have a 10ml vial of 50% Distilled Water and 50% tap water with 20 drops of API bottle 1 and 20 drops of bottle 2 - should have been a very low amount.... Well, it would seem, not so much. Near as I can tell, the reading in this pic is about 10ppm which would mean my tap is actually 20ppm nitrate. Seems out of line, but we all know API kits are sometimes not the most accurate. 









I did not test the Phosphate of the tap water as in the past it has typically tested 0ppm.

So, I grabbed 2.5ml of tank water and 7.5ml of distilled water. Added the 20 drops of bottle 1 and 20 drops of a vigorously shaken bottle 2. This is what I got :surprise:









To me, that looks to be possibly 40ppm (damn hard to tell). So, that would mean my tank is running about 160ppm Nitrate!!!! Not good!

So, figured I would try 2.5ml of tank water and 2.5ml of Distilled water and add the normal 6 drops of each bottle for the Phosphate test.









To me that looks like 2.0ppm Phosphate. This would make sense as I was hoping for around 4ppm Phosphate. 

So, If I can believe the above tank results, I have 160ppm Nitrate and 4ppm Phosphate. Not exactly a 10:1 ratio, and likely not a good thing to have 160ppm nitrate (assuming I believe the Nitrate test kit).

So, I did a 50% water change. Ran the filter for about 10 minutes, then did another 50% water change. This "should have" reduced the Nitrate level in the tank from 160 to 40 in a perfect world (mine is not). 

I grabbed 5ml of tank water and 5ml of Distilled water, added 20 drops of bottle 1 and 20 drops of an again vigorously shaken bottle 2. Should have looked like 20ppm LMAO, nope.









That looks like 40ppm to me. Which would mean my tank has now dropped to a comfortable 80ppm Nitrate :surprise:

I than grabbed 5ml of tank water and 5ml of Distilled water, added 12 drops of bottle 1 and 12 drops of bottle 2 to see what my Phosphate reading was...









Looks damn close to a 1.0ppm which would mean the tank actually has 2.0ppm phosphate. 
Hmmmm, do I add 3ppm Phosphate to the tank which would give me a 10:1 ratio? Then tomorrow do another 50% water change and hope for the best??? 

It's not rocket science to make good water for your fish and plants.... but it sure seems like I need my rocket science degree to get things perfect, LOL.
Oh well, stay tuned - will see what tomorrow brings. (probably more of the same ugly GDA covered plants with random GSA on the older leaves).


----------



## Greggz

Linn if your tank was really at 160ppm N, my goodness that is very high. 

Have you ever made calibration fluids to test your kit? It's not hard to do. 

At least you would rule out any issue with the kit before you go about trying to solve the N issue.


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## Immortal1

@Greggz - I seem to remember creating calibration solutions more than a year ago. Probably in this thread somewhere, lol. 
Probably something I can work on tomorrow when the mind is fresh. Would probably help me understand how the tap water could have so much nitrate in it (it likely does not).
My honest guess is the tap has maybe 5ppm nitrate. And my tank likely has around 20-40ppm nitrate at the moment.

Eitherway, I am guessing earlier today the tank had a lot more than 40ppm of nitrate. I don't think a high nitrate level would cause the twisting / curling leaves on the Rubin, but it might. I was honestly expecting the results to show I had like 16ppm Phosphate. But, the data does not show that. 

I guess the thing that drives me a bit crazy is many people have really nice tanks using just tap water. From what I can tell, my tap water is around 7dKH and 11dGH. Not overly hard. Sure, it may be low in Mg but I can fix that. Assuming it doesn't have 20ppm Nitrate (likely 5ppm Nitrate), I should be able to grow nice plants assuming I add the correct amounts of KNO3, KH2PO4 and K2SO4. As for the micros, I feel that is more fine tuning and Joe has been VERY good at fine tuning. 

So, if I can accurately (within my abilities) get the macro dosing correct (or, at least whats actually in the tank), I should be able to spend more time paying attention to the details of fine tuning. 

I keep chuckling to my self - the tank is telling me whats wrong!!! But I simply can't read Russian, LOL. But, I am stubborn enough to learn Russian and I will get this correct!
Given the fact that many of the plants are growing nicely (vertically anyway), I have to be close.

Now, have a beverage, get some sleep, and tomorrow I will figure out how to create calibration liquids and verify exactly how bad (good?) my tap water really is. 
If I can do that, I can get my tank, well all of my tanks, corrected.


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## Greggz

Immortal1 said:


> [MENTION=16861]Now, have a beverage, get some sleep, and tomorrow I will figure out how to create calibration liquids and verify exactly how bad (good?) my tap water really is.
> If I can do that, I can get my tank, well all of my tanks, corrected.


Here you go, use RO or distilled water:

Nitrate:

4 Cup Water add ¼ tsp KN03 = 800ppm Solution
Add ¼C 800ppm to 1 ¾ C Water = 2 Cup 100PPM
Add 1C 100ppm to 1C water = 2 Cup 50ppm
Add 1C 50ppm to 1C water = 2 Cup 25ppm
Add 1/2C 25pp to 3/4C water = 1 1/4C Cup 10ppm
Add 1/2C 10ppm to 1/2C water = 1 Cup 5ppm

Phosphate:

8 Cups water add 1/8 tsp P = 130 ppm solution
Add ¼ C 130 ppm to 1 ¾ water = 2 cup 16 ppm
Add 1C 16 ppm to 1C water = 2 cup 8 ppm
Add 1/2C 8 ppm to 1/2C water = 1 cup 4 ppm
Add 1/2C 4 ppm to 1/2C water = 1 cup 2 ppm


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## Immortal1

Thank-you @Greggz !


----------



## Immortal1

And the results are in (imagine a drum roll in you mind)
My tap water sucks and I really should do another water change today - surprise, surprise.

First, a nice pic of my laboratory....









And, as accurate of a pic as I can get of the results...









From what I can see, my 75g tank is at about 80ppm NO3 (remember, this is *after* back to back 50% water changes last nite).
And it would appear my tap water likely has more than 10ppm NO3. Guess I am going to have to build another spreadsheet to calculate out how much KNO3 to dose seeing as I am obviously adding about 1/3rd of my weekly goal just changing water :angryfire

FYI - I created the initial 1 gallon of 240ppm NO3 using the info below


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## ChrisX

Immortal1 said:


>


3D Printing, "the old fashioned way." Very cool!

I'll have to add this trick to my arsenal. I never thought to glue PVC together to create a block that could be shaped like wood.


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## Immortal1

All I can say @ChrisX is it works! And, actually pretty well. Now granted, it did take a bit of patience ;-)
Thank-you for the compliment.


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## Maryland Guppy

@Immortal1 does this mean it is RODI time ???>
One will always know "What's in Your Water"


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## Immortal1

Maryland Guppy said:


> @*Immortal1* does this mean it is RODI time ???>
> One will always know "What's in Your Water"


:angryfire quit pushing!!!!! Have no room for that!!!!!
.
.
.
ok, so how much room does it really need? lol. 

Actually the tough part for me would be getting it up to the tank. If you look at the very beginning of this journal, my water source for the 20g holding tank under the 75g display tank comes from the crawlspace under the living room. Serious pain to get in there to do any maintenance. My only other option would be to set it up in the furnace/laundry room and there is just NO more room in there. 

Honestly, I am just going to have to figure out a way to make the tap water work. What I really "should" do is get a better Nitrate test kit - well, better than API. If I can accurately test the Nitrate level in the tap water on water change day, and / or test the tank water after a water change, I should be able to figure out how much KNO3 to add for the week. That would then tell me how much more K (K2SO4) to add for the week.


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## Maryland Guppy

Immortal1 said:


> What I really "should" do is get a better Nitrate test kit - well, better than API.


Hold on there!
You just proved all the different colors from the API NO3 test.
How much more accuracy is needed?


----------



## Greggz

Maryland Guppy said:


> Hold on there!
> You just proved all the different colors from the API NO3 test.
> How much more accuracy is needed?


Yeah Linn, like MG said, looks like your test kit appeared to pretty much right on to the calibrated samples, correct??


----------



## Immortal1

Yes, more or less. I can distinctly see a difference in the calibrated fluids. And I can distinctly see where my tank water compares to those calibrated fluids.

What I don't like would be having to make those fluids each time I wanted to test my tank water. As most of you will agree, there is no difference on the included card between 40ppm and 80ppm.

On the other hand, if the test tube shows orangeish, I should be good. If it shows more redish, too much NO3. If it shows yellowish, oh crap! 
Honestly, for the longest time the API Nitrate test of my 75g has always been redish. This has likely been contributing to the various problems in the tank. So, with any luck this little reset will show some improvement. From what I have read on other sites, the GDA showing up on my glass every 2 days "should" have told me something was wrong (again, that Russian language thing, lol).

What would be really nice, would be a Nitrate test that was as follows;
10ppm
20ppm
30ppm
40ppm
50ppm
60ppm

Then I could actually read it, lol.


----------



## ChrisX

Immortal1 said:


> Honestly, I am just going to have to figure out a way to make the tap water work. What I really "should" do is get a better Nitrate test kit - well, better than API. If I can accurately test the Nitrate level in the tap water on water change day, and / or test the tank water after a water change, I should be able to figure out how much KNO3 to add for the week. That would then tell me how much more K (K2SO4) to add for the week.


I hate the API nitrate test kit too, but one way to make it better is to mix in 50% distilled water then double the result. I think its more accurate in the lower ranges. Once it gets to middle orange, all bets are off!

Also, is there any consensus of how to "hold the tube up to the card"? If I'm holding the tube touching the card, its much darker than if the tube is a couple inches away.


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## burr740

Fascinating stuff Linn


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## Immortal1

ChrisX said:


> I hate the API nitrate test kit too, but one way to make it better is to mix in 50% distilled water then double the result. I think its more accurate in the lower ranges. Once it gets to middle orange, all bets are off!
> 
> Also, is there any consensus of how to "hold the tube up to the card"? If I'm holding the tube touching the card, its much darker than if the tube is a couple inches away.


I personally hold the tube away from the card to allow as much light as possible to go thru the tube - if that makes sense. It seems to generate the most consistent coloring, at least in my opinion.


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## ecoaqaurist

I use LaMotte test kits... But I'm used to working in lab environments.


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## Phil Edwards

I typically hold the cuvette up to the paper to make sure to light gets in from behind to skew results when using API's kits.


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## Aftica

ChrisX said:


> Also, is there any consensus of how to "hold the tube up to the card"? If I'm holding the tube touching the card, its much darker than if the tube is a couple inches away.


I am so glad you asked this! I wondered this for the exact same reason as you! I wondered if I was the only one...

I have used the Lamotte kits in the past and I like the system they use - there is no second guessing there... but the cost is prohibitive so I now use both the API kits and the Fluval / Hagen kits, and have the freshwater master version in both brands.

I find that when using the API kit, I feel I get more accurate results when I hold the test tube up against the white background. On the other hand, when using the Hagen I feel it is more accurate when the tube is held off from the paper an inch or two. Both ways I let the light pass from behind me.

And Phil - I got to admit!!! I had to google the meaning of "*cuvette*" - in my world it's a test tube LOL... :nerd:


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## Immortal1

LOL, @Aftica - I had the same though, what the heck is a cuvette? Guess I am not as much of a "Mad Scientist" as I thought.

Anyway, on to another update to my saga. A very smart man once said (very recently in fact) "I'd eventually shoot for weekly total of around 30 ppm for NO3 and K, 2-3 ppm for P".
Based on what I was seeing in Post 269 of this tread, it would seem I have at least 10ppm Nitrate in my tap water. Having NEVER taken that into account, AND more of less over dosing the KNO3 likely lead to my having an insane amount of NO3 in the tank. 

(FYI, if you havn't read every post in this thread, 2 days ago I did back to back 50% water changes on my tank. Waited a day, and in Post 269 STILL had about 80ppm NO3).

I have since re-calculated my dosing level for both my 75g tank and the wifes 40g tank. Another revelation - if I dose 10ml micros in my tank, 5ml micros "should" work in hers (I was being lazy). 
Having now done the math, not so much. Would seem I need to dose 6ml micros in hers to match the levels I am adding to mine. Probably no big deal, and very likely still better than the CSM+B!

Another interesting, though VERY important piece of info - my pH has been "assumed" to be 7.6 for a very long time (and likely was tested to be 7.6 at one point). I now have a new pH probe and did a very through calibration of the new probe. My fully degassed pH is now running 7.8 to 7.9. I now have my Milwaukee controller set to 6.6. Funny how little things like re-testing your degassed pH can make a difference.

Anyway, here is what the new dosing will look like for at least a few weeks.









And because thats pretty boring stuff, here is what the tank looks like at the moment...








@burr740 - just an fyi - I really can grow plants once in a while  cause I know I didn't get a 12" long stem of sp Red from you (assuming about 2" crammed into the substrate)









The Pogo Kimberly in the back is looking much less "stunted" than it did a few weeks ago. With the new fert levels, hopefully things will continue to improve.









Also gotta admit, the Myriophyllum Red Stem is looking pretty happy at the moment...


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## Immortal1

Hmmm, would seem I have more work to do... using a brand new Nitrate test kit.
Tap looks at least 5ppm
My tank looks about 20ppm with tomorrow being Macro day
Her 40g tank is still at least 40ppm after 2 back to back 50% water changes today - not getting any KNO3 tomorrow
The 20g low tech tank.... well, it's going to need a few water changes tomorrow!!! (oops)


----------



## Phil Edwards

Looking great, Linn! Seriously, this may be the best the tank's looked. The plants are getting healthier and the groups are looking better too. Just think of what you'll be able to grow when you finally get rid of those nuisance Crinum?

I'd say you're probably at the point where you can start working on growing out bunches and trying different groupings for "best effect", whatever that is to your eye.


----------



## Phil Edwards

Linn,

I'm going to have a boatload of S. repens available when I get home. If you're interested, take a look at the most recent pictures on my thread for an idea of the area. They're even more full now and will make a great street plant for your tank.


----------



## Immortal1

Sounds like a trade would be in order


----------



## Immortal1

Things to make you go hmmmmmm.
So, last weekend ish I realized many of my tanks were running very high levels of nitrates. Lots of water changes and basically I got all 3 of the regular tanks down to around 40 ish ppm nitrates.
This week I decided to give very little nitrates to the 3 tanks - see what happens. 
20g low tech tank with a few small fish - now at 20 ppm nitrate.
75g high tech tank with a lot of big rainbows and other fish. 1 small dose of KNO3 on Monday. Today, still at 40ppm nitrate.
40g high tech tank with about a dozen tiger barbs. 1 small dose of KNO3 on Monday. Today 0ppm Nitrate! (oops)

Hmmmmm

I will say this, last Sunday I did take out a bit of plant mass (the 2 big Amazon Swords have been replaced by a small baby Amazon Sword) in the 75g tank, but it is still pretty heavily planted. I will definitely need to do a trim this weekend as I have had a reasonable amount of growth from pretty much all the rest of the plants.
The 40g "may" have had less growth, but also appears to have less GDA on the glass compared to the 75g tank.
The 20g, well it just looks happy all the time. (starting to think co2 and brite lites are a bad thing)

Starting to think 1 of 2 things - the fish in the 75g poop a lot of nitrate. Or I feed them too much and there is a lot of left over food. Given the fact that food lasts about 15 seconds in the tank when I feed them once per day, I am guessing the fish poop out a lot more nitrate than I was guessing.

And, obviously, the Tiger Barbs don't poop at all...

Week 2, more trimming, more testing, more evaluating. With any luck I will figure out how much KNO3 my 75g tank actually "needs". 
Seems the 40g tank "does" need a little KNO3 during the week - will have to pay more attention to that tank now....


----------



## Greggz

Immortal1 said:


> Starting to think 1 of 2 things - the fish in the 75g poop a lot of nitrate. Or I feed them too much and there is a lot of left over food. Given the fact that food lasts about 15 seconds in the tank when I feed them once per day, I am guessing the fish poop out a lot more nitrate than I was guessing.


Linn are you feeding any frozen foods? I noticed a large drop of both NO3 & PO4 generation when I completely eliminated them. 

I also saw a significant drop when I got rid of my BN Plecos. 



Immortal1 said:


> Week 2, more trimming, more testing, more evaluating. With any luck I will figure out how much KNO3 my 75g tank actually "needs".
> Seems the 40g tank "does" need a little KNO3 during the week - will have to pay more attention to that tank now....


Trimming, testing, evaluating.......those never end. And don't be surprised if you still need to dose some KNO3 even with higher Nitrates, so keep a close eye on the plants. 

And if you do keep the dose really low, you might need to add some K.


----------



## Immortal1

Greggz said:


> Linn are you feeding any frozen foods? I noticed a large drop of both NO3 & PO4 generation when I completely eliminated them.
> 
> I also saw a significant drop when I got rid of my BN Plecos.
> 
> 
> Trimming, testing, evaluating.......those never end. And don't be surprised if you still need to dose some KNO3 even with higher Nitrates, so keep a close eye on the plants.
> 
> And if you do keep the dose really low, you might need to add some K.


For the last 3 to 4 weeks, no frozen food. Still have the 2 plecos (poop machines). I'm thinking next week will be very small doses of KNO3. I am still dosing about 1/2 tsp of K2SO4 3 times per week. Also, just picked up a new API Phosphate test kit as the one I had was out of date (will it make for different readings, who knows). Will "try" to keep the P at about 1/10 of the NO3 but knowing how things go - it will be "sorta close" at best, LOL.


----------



## Immortal1

And a few more things to make ya go hmmmmm
Lately I am having a problem with GDA on too many things - glass and plants. Easy to wipe off the glass but why should I have to every few days. Lot tougher to wipe off the plants.
Decided to look a bit closer at how the lights were setup. I started my evaluation looking at a bit of data provided by @Greggz









As I also have the same Seneye, I was curious just how close I could get to Gregg's 6 bulb setup - if it was even possible.

























So, it would seem I can get pretty close in "some" categories. I simply can't match his surface Kelvin level no mater what I do. I have a feeling this might have something to do with his pictures looking so much crisper than mine as my previous surface light settings were closer to 3500 kelvin. My PAR is a little higher at the surface, but lower at the substrate. And if I remember correctly his tank is taller than mine. This can only lead me to believe the T5ho bulbs and quality reflectors, along with proper bulb choice, just have more "punch". 

As you can see by the last picture, I am by no means running the lights very hard at all. If I push them to full power the substrate number goes well over 150 PAR.

Still haven't decided if I like this look - seems a bit more greenish than I am used to. By comparison, the Fluval 2.0 lights on the 40g tank look more brite? White? Hard for me to say whats different. I can say, according to the Seneye the substrate PAR is about 71-72.










Also, for what it's worth this last pic was taken with my rather old Canon PowerShot SD 780 IS. I did adjust the exposure down a bit but I would have to say it seems to do a better job than my LG-G6 cell phone, maybe?


----------



## Immortal1

Go figure, I try everything I can with my LG-G6 to take a good picture and still get crap. My daughter comes over with her fancy pancy new Google Pixel XL and says - can I try taking a few pics?
Sure, knock yourself out. And she adjusted nothing! Just used the auto setting!!!

Ok, I give!


----------



## Maryland Guppy

Let your daughter take the pics. >


----------



## Immortal1

Maryland Guppy said:


> Let your daughter take the pics. >


Sadly, yes :icon_mad:


----------



## Maryland Guppy

I use my LG V20 phone for pics.
Some days good, some not so much!
With the LG V3 every pic was good, go figure!
When I use the DSLR with tripod there is too much work involved.


----------



## Phil Edwards

Linn, how're you liking the Radeons?


----------



## Immortal1

Phil Edwards said:


> Linn, how're you liking the Radeons?


Well I must admit, I like them alot! Especially when compared to the Satellite Plus / Plus Pro lights. 
Seeing what GreggZ was able to produce on the Seneye with his T5 lights, I can see where I might change 1 thing on the Radion lights - 1 green LED instead of 2, 3 blue instead of 2.

Regardless of what I do, I can't generate a reading on the Seneye, at surface level, that is even close to the 9,oook that Gregg generated. Does that make a difference in how the tank looks or how the plants grow? I have no idea.

What I do like, very much so, is walking down stairs at 5:30am and seeing a beautiful sunrise in my tank. Kinda an orangish glow. That same glow also shows up at around 8:30pm.
Having the Seneye available, in a way, makes me appreciate the power of these lights even more. I don't dare run them at 100% power. I can however adjust the tank to almost any color. I actually sat here with my daughter and said - do you like this? Better or worse? Until we both agreed what looked the best color wise. Then I adjusted the power level as needed to get the PAR readings where they should be. Really an amazing piece of technology. 

As for the spread of the light pattern, I would say acceptable. Especially if I keep the plants properly trimmed (I really need to work harder on this). The only really dim spot in the tank is right under the middle divider bar. 6" below the middle divider bar and the light is fine. 

Hopefully I didn't just talk you into spending more $ :grin2:


----------



## Phil Edwards

You haven't. I started this tank with a pair of XR15 FW and ended up switching to the T5 on there now. I just wasn't getting the coverage I wanted. The 24" depth showed just how much light is lost at the extremes of the puck's area, even with the wide angle lenses. I think they're a lot better for a 75 or 90. Then again, if I raised them up enough and cranked the power, they might work. But, to be honest I like the 6500K color of the T5s and the semi customizability of coverage. I'll be keeping it over the tank for the foreseeable future. I do love the Radeons in all aspects and will be using them on other tanks as they come along. I've got a 12 gallon nano that I may put one over vs. the two 6 watt over it now. We'll have to wait and see. I do like the Lake setting with the long ramp up and down.


----------



## Greggz

Linn I must say that those lights seem to be very, very good for LED.

Did you need to add another item to program them? I thought I read where you needed something else to do that. And programming is done/stored on PC? Easy to change? If so, that is pretty darned cool.

But still pretty pricey compared to T5. I started looking at my tank, and three lights, mounts, and whatever else I might need for programming and it gets up there fast. 

You getting much "shimmering" from those lights? That's the one thing about LED's I notice right away. Some really shimmer, and I can't say I like the look. T5's still feel "warmer' to me, but that could all be in my head!

But all that being said, I do find the amount of control intriguing. I could nerd out on that for quite a while I am sure!


----------



## Phil Edwards

Greg,

EcoTech are the top of the line as far as LED go. Some might argue Kessil is #1, but EcoTech's control program puts them over the top IMO. They're completely controllable via a phone app or computer program. Some units require an additional bit to be able to be remotely controlled, but the units I got didn't, and in fact, the remote unit on one of the lights controlled the other two units I was running at the time. Yeah, they do cause shimmer. I like it as it makes it seem like I'm in a natural setting watching the animals and plants doing their natural thing. 

My guess is the T5 are putting off a small range of light and the LED are putting off a single point on the spectrum even though you can blend them to hit specific points on the Kelvin spectrum.


----------



## Maryland Guppy

Immortal1 said:


> Regardless of what I do, I can't generate a reading on the Seneye, at surface level, that is even close to the 9,oook that Gregg generated. Does that make a difference in how the tank looks or how the plants grow? I have no idea.
> 
> Until we both agreed what looked the best color wise. Then I adjusted the power level as needed to get the PAR readings where they should be. Really an amazing piece of technology.


I would not get hung up on the kelvin reading.
Tested all kinds of bulbs around the house with the seneye @ proper distances and it was close to being spot-on.
Even older CFL's starting dropping in the kelvin rating.
Have not seen LED's degrade in kelvin over time though, that's a good thing.

With the LED mix on my pucks I can get anywhere between 4k to 23K
All the different nm's and K's all blending together seem to wreak havoc on the Seneye.

Adjusting PAR is nice! >


----------



## Immortal1

Greggz said:


> Linn I must say that those lights seem to be very, very good for LED.
> 
> Did you need to add another item to program them? I thought I read where you needed something else to do that. And programming is done/stored on PC? Easy to change? If so, that is pretty darned cool.
> 
> But still pretty pricey compared to T5. I started looking at my tank, and three lights, mounts, and whatever else I might need for programming and it gets up there fast.
> 
> You getting much "shimmering" from those lights? That's the one thing about LED's I notice right away. Some really shimmer, and I can't say I like the look. T5's still feel "warmer' to me, but that could all be in my head!
> 
> But all that being said, I do find the amount of control intriguing. I could nerd out on that for quite a while I am sure!


Actually no, I don't "need" anything more than what comes with the lights. You do have to download a bit of software that allows the lights to connect with your laptop. Then you have to create an account with the light provider on their web site (this is where the programming software resides). Plug the light (only need to plug in 1 light) into your laptop, let the laptop recognize your light is connected (kinda like a wired mouse), then go to the web site. The actual "schedule" is stored on the lights. Once you go to the web site, it retrieves the schedule from your lights. Now you can program whatever you would like. When you are done, upload the new schedule back to the lights, remove the wire and your done. From what I can tell, the web site does not store your program. If you go to the site without your light plugged in, you get almost nothing to look at.

Now, if you want to spend the $100 for a Reef Link (light specific router that connects to your router), then you can do all the above programing without any wires. And you can do it from your phone while at work if the mood suits you :grin2:

Pricey, yes. But so is fancy cars :wink2:

As for shimmer, yes! The ceiling in the living room does shimmer MUCH more than the other lights. But, honestly you only notice it if you "look" at the ceiling. For my setup it does not shimmer on the wall at all.

And yes, I am still nerding out on them! Not that most would care, but the cloud feature is kinda interesting. Tell a certain section of the schedule that you would like say a 10% chance of a cloud. Some days you will get a cloud to pass over and the lights dim an appropriate amount, some days you don't - completely random. Has lightning as well - can't say I care for it (don't think the fish do either). Ok, another 'nerd" thing for you... (am I twisting your arm too much?) if you set up 3 lights over your tank, you can tell the lights you want an East to West sunrise (so to speak). The left light starts to get brighter, then the middle light, then the right light. At nite it dims down the same way. I can do it with 2 lights but its not as much fun.


----------



## Maryland Guppy

I very quickly got upset with my controller.
The cloud and lightning I had to turn off, being DIY I would think something was going south.


----------



## Immortal1

Maryland Guppy said:


> I very quickly got upset with my controller.
> The cloud and lightning I had to turn off, being DIY I would think something was going south.


Will agree with you 100% on "going south". I was still doing the nerd thing and playing with the Seneye when a cloud went over. Started flipping out trying to figure out what happened to the lights. Laptop said they should be at XX% but my eyes told me differently. Finally figured it out and had to laugh at my stupidity.


----------



## Immortal1

Immortal1 said:


> Things to make you go hmmmmmm.
> So, last weekend ish I realized many of my tanks were running very high levels of nitrates. Lots of water changes and basically I got all 3 of the regular tanks down to around 40 ish ppm nitrates.
> This week I decided to give very little nitrates to the 3 tanks - see what happens.
> 20g low tech tank with a few small fish - now at 20 ppm nitrate.
> 75g high tech tank with a lot of big rainbows and other fish. 1 small dose of KNO3 on Monday. Today, still at 40ppm nitrate.
> 40g high tech tank with about a dozen tiger barbs. 1 small dose of KNO3 on Monday. Today 0ppm Nitrate! (oops)
> 
> With any luck I will figure out how much KNO3 my 75g tank actually "needs".
> Seems the 40g tank "does" need a little KNO3 during the week - will have to pay more attention to that tank now....


So, has been quite a few days since the above 4/6/2018 post. So far I have only dosed KNO3 once and it was a half dose at that.
My API Nitrate test continues to show roughly 30-40ppm (I say 30 as the particular test just never gets light enough to be a 20). Just out of curiosity tonite I tested a tube of distilled water and a tube of tap water along with the tank water. As expected, I got a 0ppm, 5ppm, and something darker than a 20ppm. 

Seems kinda crazy to me that the fish can generate that much nitrate but the daily API Nitrate testing would seem to indicate differently.
I have also been testing the Phosphate levels the new API Phosphate test kits seems to be indicating the fish generate almost enough Phosphate. I have been doing roughly 1/2 doses of KH2PO4 3 times per week and I am staying around 5ppm Phosphate.

Because I am obviously not dosing hardly any Potassium, I have been dosing a fair amount of K2SO4 to keep my Potassium somewhere around 30ppm for the week.

The plants "seem" to be happier overall, but I'm not going to call the above crazyness the final solution. Will give it a few more weeks and let you all know.


----------



## Immortal1

Bunch of pictures related to the above info.
Today again showed a similar level of Nitrate in the tank as yesterday (30-40ppm). Also figured I would post some various pictures to document how things look on the wonderful Friday the 13th


----------



## Immortal1

Interesting Sunday morning for sure! Pulled the Crinum and the Melon sword. Melon sword likely going to LFS and most of the Crinum is headed SouthEast 
I did keep 2 of the Crinum babies. Will probably spend more time this evening re-arranging plants in the tank. Not sure what I will end up with but I suspect it will be a bit of an improvement.
Will have to make some room for some incoming plants :grin2:


----------



## Greggz

Boy that's a lot of plants there (and roots!).

Sounds like a serious rescape.

Looking forward to seeing the new layout.

What plants are coming??


----------



## Maryland Guppy

At least make all of us plant geeks aware of what's coming.:grin2:


----------



## Greggz

Maryland Guppy said:


> At least make all of us plant geeks aware of what's coming.:grin2:


I was gonna say hey who you calling a "Plant Geek"..............then I thought about it for a second.......and I guess since the shoe fits I gotta wear it!!!:wink2::wink2:


----------



## Immortal1

Lol, would love to tell you what's coming - unfortunately I won't know until it gets here


----------



## Greggz

Immortal1 said:


> Lol, would love to tell you what's coming - unfortunately I won't know until it gets here


Aha I enjoy a good mystery.

I can see it now, you will be like a kid opening presents on Christmas morning! 

Looking forward to seeing what's next.

Let me know if I have anything you would be interested in.


----------



## Maryland Guppy

Immortal1 said:


> Lol, would love to tell you what's coming - unfortunately I won't know until it gets here


This is no "Unlike" button for this comment! >


----------



## Immortal1

Finally back home - long day of home remodeling at the daughters house.
Got the lights turned on long enough to get a crappy FTS of the tank to give you guys an idea of what it looks like with out the 2 biggest plants 
Will try to get some decent pics tomorrow nite.

And yes Gregg, kid at christmas...


----------



## Phil Edwards

Good gracious, that looks completely different!! I think now's a perfect opportunity to pull everything up and clean the hell out of the gravel. I miss having gravel/sand.


----------



## Immortal1

Guess it's time I add a few more pics now that everything is sorta in place (for now?). Christmas present from Phil included some S. repens, a spiral crypt (wifes tank), some Anubis nana petite (mine and the wifes tank), and some Crypt wendii bronze (3 different tanks). Did a fair amount of chopping in the last 2 days. Completely pulled the Lobelia Cardinalis apart (was 1 giant ball of leaves) and re-arranged it - looks much better IMO. Also cleaned out several algae covered leaves on the 53b - also looks better now. Did what I could with the S. repens - have a feeling if it likes my tank parameters it should do nicely. 
The Pogo Kimberly in the back is looking healthier IMO as well. Yes there are still algae covered leaves at the lower levels, but at lease there are leaves there. One of the kimberly's now has 3 side shoots - waiting for them to get bigger so I can have a bit more of this nice plant. And last comment - the Mermaid weed has been getting a bit more yellow overall lately and now it seems to be developing what looks like an orange vein down the middle of the upper leaves. More changes to come? Have no idea. Just hope it stays healthy.

Ok, enough yapping, onto the pics...









































Interesting perspective...









And somebody just had to be photogenic today...









And just for curiosity, given all the discussion over in the phosphate level thread and Dennis's beautiful tanks, I decided to see just what these new lights could be capable of at the substrate level...









And the new Anubis nana in the wifes tank









And for some reason I just like this pic.


----------



## Greggz

Linn I always enjoy following the evolution of your tank. 

Looks like you are on to a new phase now. I remember when Crypts and the Crinum were the main focal points.

I like the way the groupings are getting more defined. Looking good!

So are you going to try running that 165 PAR at the substrate?? I see the success that Dennis has with it, but it SCARES me!!


----------



## Immortal1

Thanks for the kind words Gregg. It is definitely an interesting journey. 
And no, not planning on going that high - ever. But I might try maybe 110 par for an hour or so during mid day


----------



## Greggz

Immortal1 said:


> Thanks for the kind words Gregg. It is definitely an interesting journey.
> And no, not planning on going that high - ever. But I might try maybe 110 par for an hour or so during mid day


Linn I am running 115 PAR at the substrate for 8 hours a day, so that number might not be that crazy for you.

Now when I was up at 135 PAR, it was a real high wire act. Tank was not stable, and very small changes could result in substantial issues. Was not sustainable for me.


----------



## Maryland Guppy

I have been thinking for a few months now???

What if, I mean just what if I tune 1 of my pucks up to 180 or so PAR.
Put a difficult grower under that 1 puck and just see what happens?

Last summer Cavan, Aaron and myself were discussing this option.
A mid-day high PAR blast, for me this would only be 1 puck not the entire tank.
What could it do to the MiniB or the Macrandra that doesn't look bad but could look better?:grin2:


----------



## Greggz

Maryland Guppy said:


> I have been thinking for a few months now???
> 
> What if, I mean just what if I tune 1 of my pucks up to 180 or so PAR.
> Put a difficult grower under that 1 puck and just see what happens?
> 
> Last summer Cavan, Aaron and myself were discussing this option.
> A mid-day high PAR blast, for me this would only be 1 puck not the entire tank.
> What could it do to the MiniB or the Macrandra that doesn't look bad but could look better?:grin2:


That would certainly be VERY interesting.

I'd love to see what happens, good or bad.

My vote is do it!!


----------



## Maryland Guppy

My organizational skills are lacking to do this right now.
Need to weed out some plants to make it happen.
I've got over 300 stems from the weekend added to the mess.


----------



## Immortal1

@Maryland Guppy - that would be an interesting experiment. Would the plant in question improve, worsen, or get covered with algae. 
Personally I would love to take 1 stem of mermaid weed and put it in a 5g tank with matching water / fert parameters (and co2) to my 75g - except give it 150-200 par. Will it actually turn orange? or would it just turn to crap? For me, I suspect the later.


----------



## Immortal1

Tank was looking good under the evening light setting so I thought - what the heck.


----------



## Maryland Guppy

Mermaid weed is a funny grower, I'd call it @ 3 types.

1. All green with lightly serrated edges.
2. The color change to an orange tint.
3. The serrated edges turn to very spiny.

This varies from 60 to 300 PAR.
300 is when it grows across the surface and gets very spiney.

Got to go and feed the Cory's now, they are restless scouring the surface.
Been two days.:grin2:


----------



## Immortal1

Spent some time at home this afternoon (stupid air conditioner), so I got to spend a little more time with the tank while the lights were at their brightest. Seems the R. rotundifolia is trying to get my attention lately. Since last Saturdays cleaning and pruning it has grown at least 2", maybe more. I'm pretty sure I have not seen this much pearling on this plant - must be the new lights settings.


----------



## Immortal1

Got to do some Garage Time today and came up with this. Should have installed pics tomorrow nite. Wish I would have done some during construction pics but simply forgot.
Slotted pipe on the right is 1" Schedule 80 PVC with 3/4" Schedule 40 PVC inserted in the ends (used heat gun to help make it fit). The remainder of the assembly is all 3/4" PVC.










Kinda like this....


----------



## Immortal1

In the interest of keeping with the "Planted Tank" theme of this site I figured I had better show off a little of what I have been doing "in" the tank....
Pogo Kimberly started out as 3 stems from @Greggz. One of them eventually stunted and I topped it (hoping for the best, assuming the worst). Well, it sent out 3 side shoots AND grew a nice new top!
So, this weekend I did a little cutting and arranging - very happy with how things turned out, at least in this portion of the tank.


----------



## Phil Edwards

For some reason your pictures always remind me of photos from old TFH and Tetra publications. Talk about nostalgia trips!


----------



## Immortal1

Phil Edwards said:


> For some reason your pictures always remind me of photos from old TFH and Tetra publications. Talk about nostalgia trips!


Sounds about right - I am old school ya know


----------



## Immortal1

As promised, installed pics of my latest DIY project - surface skimmer. Been thinking about this for awhile now thinking there could be some benefit to it. Cost me more for the Krylon Fusion than the fittings so figured why not. Sitting here on the couch it really is less obvious than I thought it would be.


----------



## Maryland Guppy

This really is "Classic TFH Publication" material.>


----------



## burr740

That's a very innovative design Linn. Does the filter get any air build up from it?


----------



## Immortal1

Maryland Guppy said:


> This really is "Classic TFH Publication" material.>


Might explain a few things :grin2:










Bump:


burr740 said:


> That's a very innovative design Linn. Does the filter get any air build up from it?


Thank-you very much Joe. Been running now for about 5 hours - have not heard a burp yet. Funny thing was I unhooked the original return pipe and plugged the hose right into the new setup without bothering to purge any air. Turned on the filter and it started up just fine. Did get a couple of bubbles after a few seconds but nothing after that. 

In looking at the micro dust on the surface, I can see that it does work. Will give it a few days to see if it removes the slight surface film I have.


----------



## Maryland Guppy

TFH does have color printed material! >

In the late 60's when I was a young lad raising cichlids a LFS owner gave me a few books.
Hard bound volumes that were very informative all in black and white.
From an ID species perspective they were crap!


----------



## Immortal1

Ok, ever have one of those Sr. moments when you realize you have been trying to fix something that wasn't really broken? Just arbitrarily set wrong. Had one of those moments late this afternoon.
See if you can figure out why all my pictures look like vintage crap!









So, once I changed that setting back to something more usable - like NONE!!!!!! I realized my cell phone might not be as bad as I though at taking pictures. SO, I spent a little time testing out my new found camera....

















































For the moment, this is my best FTS. Going to wait for the sun to go down and turn all the living room lights off and we will see what I can get later tonite.


----------



## Maryland Guppy

Great improvement on pics.>

Should have stated "So I decided to play with settings on my camera and made some vast improvements".

Cell phones can take some awesome pics these days.

A vintage blast from the past is okay too!>


----------



## Immortal1

Yes, I probably should have said that....


----------



## burr740

LOL, I always thought you just had weird lighting


----------



## Immortal1

burr740 said:


> LOL, I always thought you just had weird lighting


Well, they are a bunch of small squares as opposed to pretty tubes. But, for the longest time I thought I would never be able to show any of you what I actually see in person (stupid phone).
Anyway, some more of my new favorite pictures :grin2:


----------



## Greggz

Much better Linn.

Both the quality of the pictures and the FTS!

Today's cell phones can have pretty high quality cameras. And there are plenty of settings to mess around with if you are so inclined.

More importantly, the layout is getting better and better. I like where this is going.


----------



## OreoP

All I can say is "WOW" and check my cell phone manual on taking aquarium pictures!!
@Greggz...better watch out you have a serious competitor now..:wink2:>


----------



## Maryland Guppy

(Pic Heavy) >

We need more Linn, remember the "Boe" lease agreement!
I may want them back some day!


----------



## Immortal1

Maryland Guppy said:


> (Pic Heavy) >
> 
> We need more Linn, remember the "Boe" lease agreement!
> I may want them back some day!


Yep, do recall the agreement. Just forgot there was a return policy, LOL


----------



## Phil Edwards

NOOOOOO!!! I loved the vintage filter. Now I have to go back and try to find another source of older photos. My cameras don't have filters like that. 

On the plus side, things are looking great! If I may suggest, move the stump over in front of the Pogostemon. It's a little too close to the middle and is a pretty strong visual element. Moving it to the right will help with focal points. Is that other piece of wood serving any purpose in there? It looks like it was put in there just to have another piece of wood in the tank with it stuck back there behind the plants.


----------



## Immortal1

Phil Edwards said:


> NOOOOOO!!! I loved the vintage filter. Now I have to go back and try to find another source of older photos. My cameras don't have filters like that.
> 
> On the plus side, things are looking great! If I may suggest, move the stump over in front of the Pogostemon. It's a little too close to the middle and is a pretty strong visual element. Moving it to the right will help with focal points. Is that other piece of wood serving any purpose in there? It looks like it was put in there just to have another piece of wood in the tank with it stuck back there behind the plants.


Sorry Phil, vintage filter simply had to go! Maybe I will bring it back at the beginning of each month :wink2:
So, I did a little rearranging in the tank this morning. The wood piece on the far right got downsized a bit - removed a part that had dissolved a bit too far and split the slate bottom in half. Then I pushed it a little further into the back right corner. As for a "purpose", sorta - both bristle nose plecos sleep on the under side of that particular piece of wood.

Will have to get a pic of it later once the water clears up but I did attach the Anubias Nana Petite to the base V of that piece of wood. Hoping as it grows it will follow the wood "up" to the top. Should add a nice bit of green in the back right.

The stump then had room to be moved further off center. I did have to move the Amazon Sword from the right of the wood stump to the left of the wood stump. I have a feeling the Amazon sword will be going to the LFS in the near future once I find something to replace it.

As the Mermaid weed seems to like the light (as it grew closer to the surface, it bent more towards the center), I switch positions of the Mermaid weed and the Ludwigia sp Red. If the sp Red twists a bit towards the light I don't think it will look as odd as the plant seems to grow in many directions at once.

In time, I am hoping the Pogo Kimberly gets a little taller and I will try to keep the Mermaid weed a little shorter.

Ok, with all that said - thoughts?


----------



## ChrisX

Immortal1 said:


> Sorry Phil, vintage filter simply had to go! Maybe I will bring it back at the beginning of each month :wink2:
> So, I did a little rearranging in the tank this morning. The wood piece on the far right got downsized a bit - removed a part that had dissolved a bit too far and split the slate bottom in half. Then I pushed it a little further into the back right corner. Will have to get a pic of it later once the water clears up but I did attach the Anubias Nana Petite to the base V of the wood. Hoping as it grows it will follow the wood "up".
> 
> The stump then had room to be moved further off center. I did have to move the Amazon Sword from the right of the wood stump to the left of the wood stump. I have a feeling the Amazon sword will be going to the LFS in the near future once I find something to replace it.
> 
> As the Mermaid weed seems to like the light (as it grew closer to the surface, it bent more towards the center), I switch positions of the Mermaid weed and the Ludwigia sp Red. If the sp Red twists a bit towards the light I don't think it will look as odd as the plant seems to grow in many directions at once.
> 
> In time, I am hoping the Pogo Kimberly gets a little taller and I will try to keep the Mermaid weed a little shorter.
> 
> Ok, with all that said - thoughts?


This looks great! I hope my 75g tank looks even half this good. Its not full dutch, but the plant groupings are excellent and I love the natural substrate.


----------



## Immortal1

Thank-you @ChrisX - its been an interesting journey to this point.


----------



## kaldurak

Who/what is your image host? I can't see any pics 😞


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## Immortal1

kaldurak said:


> Who/what is your image host? I can't see any pics 😞


I actually use this site, The Planted Tank, to host my images.


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## Immortal1

Ok, got some better pics o look at. First, as I have never had this plant, will the Anubis Nana follow up the piece of wood naturally or will I need some brute force to keep it in line?









And hopefully this is a little better FTS now that things have calmed down a bit from this morning. Also a couple shots from above with the filter off...


----------



## Phil Edwards

That's already looking a lot better, even without the filter.  As far as the Anubias, with the way you've got it oriented it's going to grow toward the Pogo. You'll want to orient the rhizome in the direction you want it to grow, with that newest leaf in the growing direction. If you need to lay it on its side a bit to get that, go ahead. I've had to do that with a bunch of them in the past since some of the wood was too thick for the roots to go around.


----------



## Greggz

I like the shots from above looking down into the tank Linn. They are always tricky to get with the reflection of the lights.

If you compare your FTS from just a week ago, you see substantial growth. And those overhead shots show a lot of plant mass is starting to develop.

Before long you better sharpen your scissors. Taming that plant mass and keeping just a little elbow room between the species will become more of a weekly event, and be important to the health of your plants. You are well on your way now, good to see the progress.


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## Immortal1

@Phil Edwards - will have to see if I can get the Anubias point in the right direction  Thank-you for your input on the tank. @Greggz - Yes, those above shots are a bit of a pain considering all the reflection from the light. But, the new settings on the phone seem to be working better at making adjustments. 
Yes, the plants (at least some of them) are growing alot! As I'm sure you have asked yourself in the past - if I can grow the heck out of those plants, why do these plants seem to die? Age old mystery, lol.

Speaking of LOL, well sorta. Was awakend last nite about 11:00pm to a loud noise. Went downstairs and found a lot of water on the floor in the living room and the kitchen.... what the heck? I then noticed one of the 2 cats was under the kitchen table - obviously wet!
Uh oh... Well first off, they got locked in the basement for the nite. Then I began my groggy investigation. Seems the cat likes sitting/sleeping on the top of one of the bearded dragon cages. Also seems her "former" favorite way up there was to walk across the top of the 20g tank and jump. Well, I guess those flimsy glass lids are NOT strong enough. My guess is the back glass panel shattered when she tried to jump and, well, got a good soaking. I did get most of the glass out of the tank and soaked 2 towels cleaning up the mess.









So, I had a few minutes at lunch time today and I think I may have come up with a solution. A bit ugly, but it should work for now. FYI, the material is corrugated plastic board used for various yard signs.


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## Maryland Guppy

Any restaurants nearby that could use the vermin?>


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## ChrisX

Immortal1 said:


> @Phil Edwards - will have to see if I can get the Anubias point in the right direction  Thank-you for your input on the tank.
> @Greggz - Yes, those above shots are a bit of a pain considering all the reflection from the light. But, the new settings on the phone seem to be working better at making adjustments.
> Yes, the plants (at least some of them) are growing alot! As I'm sure you have asked yourself in the past - if I can grow the heck out of those plants, why do these plants seem to die? Age old mystery, lol.
> 
> Speaking of LOL, well sorta. Was awakend last nite about 11:00pm to a loud noise. Went downstairs and found a lot of water on the floor in the living room and the kitchen.... what the heck? I then noticed one of the 2 cats was under the kitchen table - obviously wet!
> Uh oh... Well first off, they got locked in the basement for the nite. Then I began my groggy investigation. Seems the cat likes sitting/sleeping on the top of one of the bearded dragon cages. Also seems her "former" favorite way up there was to walk across the top of the 20g tank and jump. Well, I guess those flimsy glass lids are NOT strong enough. My guess is the back glass panel shattered when she tried to jump and, well, got a good soaking. I did get most of the glass out of the tank and soaked 2 towels cleaning up the mess.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, I had a few minutes at lunch time today and I think I may have come up with a solution. A bit ugly, but it should work for now. FYI, the material is corrugated plastic board used for various yard signs.



The cat will just climb your curtains now. >


----------



## Immortal1

@Maryland Guppy - Sure, plenty. Although non officially, lol. Actually kinda like the cats - most of the time.

Bump: @ChrisX - I see any of that and the claw trimmers are coming out! And I don't play nice with those things.


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## Phil Edwards

I'm sorry Linn, I just have to laugh. That's something my boys would do and is why I either have a full wood canopy or open top on my tanks. They know from firstpaw experience what happens when they try to get in/on a full open top tank. Daddy's a mean teacher.


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## Immortal1

Well, one things for sure - I seem to be able to grow plants! Even if there is still GDA on the front glass every 3-4 days.
This pic is from May 13, 2018









And this one is from May 19, 2018









Gonna sharpen up the scissors and get to trimming! Hopefully I can even things out a bit :grin2:


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## Maryland Guppy

Linn could we get one of those pics in "vintage" mode too? :grin2:

Plants look nice and growing well it seems!


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## Phil Edwards

Hmmmm, I may have to lower my lights a little...


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## Immortal1

Phil Edwards said:


> Hmmmm, I may have to lower my lights a little...



LOL, if you lower your lights you will definitely need one of these :grin2:


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## Phil Edwards

I said a little. I can't be putting my hands in poo water all the time now, can I?


----------



## Immortal1

So, been a few days since I had time to update this thread. Spent the entire weekend up North moving my youngest out of her apartment (Jr. year of college) and next weekend, we will move her into her new apartment (Sr. year). As such, the tanks have suffered a bit of "lack of maintenance". Fortunately, I have this entire week off - so figured I would spend a good chunk of tomorrow cleaning things up and doing a little (lol) bit of trimming.


----------



## Immortal1

Well, I did promise a few "after" pics  Hard to believe I chopped out enough plant mass to fill the 1 gallon ice cream pail twice, AND fill a 1 gal zip lock with Bacopa, another with Mermaid weed, a quart bag of sp Red, and another quart bag with some rotala - all given to the LFS.

On to the pics...

























This is looking much better than when it was just a big bush...









The new Compacta Hygrophila Corymbosa from Joe. Also to the right is the new Ludwigia atlantis and in the middle back is the Barclaya Longifolia Red which is REALLY starting to perk up - finally!









And my newest "little" plant. Found this little Pogo during trimming - figured I would save it.









Now on to the wifes tank...









Pulled one of the several bid Pogo's from my 75g to put in her tank.


----------



## vvDO

Immortal1 said:


> Well, I did promise a few "after" pics  Hard to believe I chopped out enough plant mass to fill the 1 gallon ice cream pail twice, AND fill a 1 gal zip lock with Bacopa, another with Mermaid weed, a quart bag of sp Red, and another quart bag with some rotala - all given to the LFS.
> 
> 
> 
> On to the pics...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is looking much better than when it was just a big bush...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The new Compacta Hygrophila Corymbosa from Joe. Also to the right is the new Ludwigia atlantis and in the middle back is the Barclaya Longifolia Red which is REALLY starting to perk up - finally!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And my newest "little" plant. Found this little Pogo during trimming - figured I would save it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now on to the wifes tank...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pulled one of the several bid Pogo's from my 75g to put in her tank.




Nice pogo Kimberly with leaves all the way to the roots.

Both tanks looking great!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Immortal1

Thankyou @vvDO - have been very happy with how "most" plants have been growing. Not that long ago the Pogo looked like a poodle's tail - bare stem with a floof ball at the end


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## burr740

Barclayas can be tricky. Sometimes they grow like a weed and other times they just sit there doing nothing, especially babies. Ive had them sit around for months doing nothing but getting a little fuzz algae, then all of a sudden take off for no apparent reason

Idk if they have a dormant phase or easily shocked or what

But once it starts throwing out new leaves that are big and red....look out!


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## Phil Edwards

What else can I say but it would look better with the vintage filter?


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## vvDO

burr740 said:


> Barclayas can be tricky. Sometimes they grow like a weed and other times they just sit there doing nothing, especially babies. Ive had them sit around for months doing nothing but getting a little fuzz algae, then all of a sudden take off for no apparent reason
> 
> Idk if they have a dormant phase or easily shocked or what
> 
> But once it starts throwing out new leaves that are big and red....look out!




My Barclaya has a growing season, right now my plants are in a dormant bulb phase, later this year probably summer, they should sprout back up again, take over the tank, flower away then back to being bulbs before winter.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Phil Edwards

vvDO said:


> My Barclaya has a growing season, right now my plants are in a dormant bulb phase, later this year probably summer, they should sprout back up again, take over the tank, flower away then back to being bulbs before winter.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's really common with Barclaya and some of the Aponogeton. Hell, with many bulb plants in general. They're still great plants though.


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## Immortal1

Time for another update  
Did a bunch of trimming and some re-arranging on the left side of the tank. Right side, not so much. Really need to shorten the Mermaid weed and probably the Pogo.

As I was mentioning to Joe earlier, I am really liking this new Compacta Hygrophila Corymbosa. Unlike the other Hygro I have, this one stays small! The Barclaya Longifolia Red is also finally looking like I think it should.









One oddity in my tank - Jungle Val. In my low tech 20g tank that I pretty much ignore, this stuff stays bright green and will grow 24"+ if I let it. In this tank, it acts more like a dense carpet plant.









Kinda an overall of the left side of the tank. I moved the Ludwigia Atlantis to the back left as it grew WAY faster than I was expecting









And what would a left side be without a right side...









And, one of my newest surprises. If you look WAY back in my journal you will find I had a Tiger Lotus on the right side of the tank. Eventually it looked very unhappy and pretty much died. Guess I didn't pull everything out. I'm guessing it has been more than 6 months since I had this plant in the tank, yet there it is again 









One of my newest additions to the tank (well, 1 of 4 anyway).









One of my favorite little fish - Red Laser Rainbow. Just a tough little guy to get a good picture of. The first pic shows more of the blueish purple color. The second pic is a bit blurry but shows more of the cyan color.

















And one final pic


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## Grobbins48

Beautiful tank and great update! Do you always run tank with no lid, or was that just during the pictures and maintenance that they were off? My 55 is full of rainbows and I guess I would be nervous to have no glass lid in case of jumping! But yet again, I am new to rainbows this past few months!


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## Immortal1

Grobbins48 said:


> Beautiful tank and great update! Do you always run tank with no lid, or was that just during the pictures and maintenance that they were off? My 55 is full of rainbows and I guess I would be nervous to have no glass lid in case of jumping! But yet again, I am new to rainbows this past few months!



Thanks for the compliments. Actually have not had a lid on this tank in probably a year. The rainbows don't seem too likely to jump. The corey cats constantly hit the surface but no more. Just got some nerite snails and I hear they like to climb out - hopefully not.


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## Immortal1

Looks like I will be undertaking a new journey soon


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## Grobbins48

Immortal1 said:


> Looks like I will be undertaking a new journey soon


I just took the same dive last week! What receipe are you using?


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## Greggz

Immortal1 said:


> Looks like I will be undertaking a new journey soon
> [/IMG]


The power of suggestion is an irresistible force.:wink2:

I know from experience.

But seriously, good move. You will be happy with your choice. Much easier than anyone imagines, and good investment over the long run.


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## Immortal1

@Grobbins48 I am using Burr740 v13.15. Looks like this except I used the wrong listing for the zinc. Should be (Zinc sulfate monohydrate 35%) at 1.58 grams


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## burr740

Taking the training wheels off! 

How long have you been using v13.5 now, 4-5 months?



Immortal1 said:


> @*Grobbins48* I am using Burr740 v13.15. Looks like this except I used the wrong listing for the zinc. Should be (Zinc sulfate monohydrate 35%) at 1.58 grams


Just so others dont get confused, You have the correct Zn on the spreadsheet, but on the calculators it's listed as Zn sulfate monohydrate 35%. Not sure why its spelled out instead of using the formula like everything else

So it can be a tad confusing. The other Zn on the list is heptahydrate, note the extra '7' in the formula


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## OreoP

Immortal1 said:


> Looks like I will be undertaking a new journey soon


White powder in tiny zip lock bags.....hmmmm...what kind of journey? Does the other half know??? :wink2::wink2:>>

On a serious note, hope to cross paths in this journey. Sounds complicated but both Joe and Gregg have made it so much easier with step by step instructions. I made my second batch this week and am still amazed as to the small quantities of the compounds that are required. To my eyes, plants look a lot healthier and the reds are popping. But this could be a combination of the new micros and lights.


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## Immortal1

burr740 said:


> Taking the training wheels off!
> 
> How long have you been using v13.5 now, 4-5 months?



At least 4 months now. I usually get a month from a 500ml bottle. I know I received atleast 2 individual v13.15 packets prior to receiving a double packet order the last time. It could very well be 5 months. 

Eitherway, I am very happy with the results. Should be upgrading to the 10-speed here pretty soon


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## Grobbins48

burr740 said:


> Taking the training wheels off!
> 
> How long have you been using v13.5 now, 4-5 months?
> 
> 
> 
> Just so others dont get confused, You have the correct Zn on the spreadsheet, but on the calculators it's listed as Zn sulfate monohydrate 35%. Not sure why its spelled out instead of using the formula like everything else
> 
> So it can be a tad confusing. The other Zn on the list is heptahydrate, note the extra '7' in the formula


Oh man, thanks for calling this out. To keep your journal clean I'll post this in mine and ask my questions there, but I goofed and used the wrong one.... oops....


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## Immortal1

Well, something a little different for a Saturday. Wife has been bugging me about getting my "chemistry experiment" out of the kitchen. 
So, decided to finally make something to hold all the test tubes, caps, and test reagents. And wanted it to fit the available space in the drawer.


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## Grobbins48

I really, really like this! I am using a cheapo $3 tool box, but this is a whole new level!

Hats off!


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## Brian Rodgers

Well done, that is a snappy tool kit. What a great idea, thanks for sharing.
Brian


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## Maryland Guppy

Immortal1 said:


> Well, something a little different for a Saturday. Wife has been bugging me about getting my "chemistry experiment" out of the kitchen.
> So, decided to finally make something to hold all the test tubes, caps, and test reagents. And wanted it to fit the available space in the drawer.


Can't believe you didn't remove the red clips though.
Thay are a pain in the backside.


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## Immortal1

LOL, yes they are. Guess I never thought about removing them....


----------



## davgriggs

man your reds are really popping. Very nice!


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## Immortal1

Well, it seems TPT site is having some random "site"issues. Figured I would give this a try. Have noticed the last few evenings when I get home from work the bows are all grouped in one corner of the tank. Kinda odd. Thought maybe my fiddling with the pH controller trying to get a bit more pH drop was the issue. But, if that was the case, they usually go to the surface - not the bottom of the tank.

Anyway, have not posted in a bit so figured tonite was a good nite to post something. 

Also, try not to chuckle at the end of the video when the metal bar falls into the tank - was using it to move around the pH probe to different areas of the tank to see how even the CO2 levels were. Guess I bumped it by mistake.


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## Maryland Guppy

Lucky you didn't spear a Phish!


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## Grobbins48

No joke about that metal bar!!!

That is strange to see them all like that, especially in your tank with how densely planted. Only time I have had that behavior that I can think is when mine are scared or the lights just came on.


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## Immortal1

@Grobbins48 agreed that is strange behavior. As for the lights, they were on about 11:30am and video was more like 4:30pm so thats not it. And I certainly was not scaring them any more than usual, lol. 
If the co2 was too high, I would assume them to be at the surface. Again, odd.


----------



## MCFC

Probably a long shot but any chance you've added an actinic light recently? All of my fish huddled together in the front corner whenever I tried using one.


----------



## Greggz

My guess is flow.

My Bows have always loved hanging head first into the flow.

But regardless, both Bows and plants are looking great!


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## Immortal1

Thankyou @Greggz - I would have quoted you, but...
Anyway, I think overall they do like looking at the flow and just going with it. With the spray bar and 2 fans, there is a fair amount of flow in the tank. But, its just odd seeing them all together like that.
As the evening went and the lights dimmed down (co2 burned off???) they started swimming around more.


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## Immortal1

Doing a little testing to see what works.... Would seem I have found a new place to host pictures. So, while the techies are doing there thing I can still make updates to my journal.


----------



## Immortal1

Well, this is a bit interesting. As @Greggz knows, I have been working on increasing my co2 levels - hoping to reduce some algae issues by creating healthier plants. 
Think this might be the first time I have noticed pearling in the tank after only 2.5ish hours of co2 and about 45 minutes of above 50 par lighting. The lights currently are set provide more than 85 par for 8 hours and about 120 par for around 5 hours.
As an FYI, the highest pH reading I can get using a recently calibrated pH probe is 7.6pH. This is from tap water in the 20 gallon holding tank in which several air stones were left running for more than 24 hours.
In the morning the pH level in the tank is 7.3 just before the co2 kicks in. So, I guess at this point I can say I am getting a 1.0ph drop daily in the tank or a 1.3ph drop from fully degassed tap water. 

Also, @burr740 the Barclaya Longifolia Red is finally starting to look VERY healthy. Was worried for awhile as it just did not seem to be happy. It would generate new leaves but the older leaves would seem to die off just about as fast. Now it is looking a lot more like one of my Amazon swords - lots of leaves.

The Ludwigia atlantis is turning out to be a very interesting plant. I like the color and it seems to like the tank - best of both worlds.


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## Brian Rodgers

Wow @Immortal1 this is a magical aquarium. Thank you for sharing. 
Brian


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## burr740

Looking good Linn.

Barclayas can sit around doing nothing for a while but when they ever take off it's a pretty fast plant


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## Gatekeeper

Fish look awesome. Nice job on the tank.


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## Maryland Guppy

I'm hurt, No more spear phishing videos!

Damn, quick reply is all I got, no advanced even.

Funny thing, my favorite site is seeing more activity!
Go figure! Can't seem to understand why? Fix? Fix what?


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## Immortal1

LOL, I try my best to avoid spear phishing @Maryland Guppy - would not want to hurt something on loan.
Sounds like I will have to spend more time visiting your favorite site (like everybody else, lol)


----------



## Greggz

Nice video Linn!

Tank and fish are looking great.

Funny how bumping up CO2 can create noticeable changes. 

Getting it right is well worth the time and trouble.

Nice work!


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## Immortal1




----------



## Wobblebonk

Immortal1 said:


>











no idea if his pic will work for anyone else but me let me know, but img tag must be link to actual image


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## Immortal1

Trying to figure out a better place / way to host pictures. Hosting thru TPT Resources still does not work. I have a Google account with tons of Photos in it, but not really sure how to edit them to a smaller size, then not sure if I can link them to here. Have DropBox with 5TB of space, but I don't think it will "Host" the pictures. Looked at Flickr a bit but lost interest in trying to figure out how to edit pics for size. Really just looking for a simple way to take pictures with Android phone and post them here without having to use 4 or 5 different programs.


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## Wobblebonk

i just upload full size to/from imgur though I believe imgur also has editing in it I just don't bother. If uploading directly from phone you gotta switch to viewing as "desktop" to upload without logging in / using their app. Though you need to login to maintain control over the albums I just let them sit in the ether on there :/


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## Immortal1

Ok, now we are getting somewhere! I actually posted a pic without too much PITA and I did not have to use TPT hosting....

Been trying to get a decent pic of this little bugger for the last hour - best I can do. Somewhere around 1.5" long - won't let me take him out of tank for an accurate measurement, LOL


















A little grainy, but I am working on various settings with the phone to try and find something that looks more like what I see. LG-G6 has almost an infinite amount of camera settings - and for me that means almost an infinite amount of time before I find what works, LOL. And FYI, the automatic settings are nice and clear, but the colors are way off.
































































Ok, now I'm done, lol


----------



## burr740

I can only see half those pics^

Flickr doesnt have an edit function to resize but it gives you several options to select from. 










From the image's page (with the dark background) there's a little down arrow in bottom right, click that for a drop down then 'view all sizes'


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## Immortal1

burr740 said:


> I can only see half those pics^



Ok, thats a bummer! Looks like I will have to spend some time playing around with Flickr....


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## Wobblebonk

looks like google and dropbox make temporary links to block one from linking to the images


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## Greggz

Yeah Linn I could see 1/2 before and now none.

I usually resize pics before I upload them.

Windows Image Resizer works great. Right click and resize and good to go.


----------



## Grobbins48

FWIW- imgur has been pretty simple to use for me. Gives you the bb code at different sizes. I have not tried the editing in it yet, as I do most the editing on my phone when upload to imgur (or use tapatalk app).


----------



## Immortal1

Ok, lets give this a try...









Been trying to get a decent pic of this little bugger for the last hour - best I can do. Somewhere around 1.5" long - won't let me take him out of tank for an accurate measurement, LOL

















A little grainy, but I am working on various settings with the phone to try and find something that looks more like what I see. LG-G6 has almost an infinite amount of camera settings - and for me that means almost an infinite amount of time before I find what works, LOL. And FYI, the automatic settings are nice and clear, but the colors are way off.


























































Ok, please let me know if the above 10 pics show up


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## Grobbins48

I only see the second picture


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## RainbowRob

I got both

Bump: Looks like you got it working, nice looking young man you have there. Nice tank too.


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## Immortal1

Grobbins48 said:


> I only see the second picture



That is so weird. This is what I see on my end (I removed the [ or ] so it only posts the text)


Ok, lets give this a try...
img]https://farm1.staticflickr.com/939/28690662957_fb09d23c3d_b.jpg[/img

Been trying to get a decent pic of this little bugger for the last hour - best I can do. Somewhere around 1.5" long - won't let me take him out of tank for an accurate measurement, LOL
img]https://farm1.staticflickr.com/855/29707343708_a570d78ff5_b.jpg[/img
img]https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1805/29707321128_8ccd2ed2b5_b.jpg[/img

A little grainy, but I am working on various settings with the phone to try and find something that looks more like what I see. LG-G6 has almost an infinite amount of camera settings - and for me that means almost an infinite amount of time before I find what works, LOL. And FYI, the automatic settings are nice and clear, but the colors are way off.

img]https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1763/43531302862_29a7d5277f_b.jpg[/img
img]https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1829/43578226261_6f6e3e64ee_b.jpg[/img
img]https://farm1.staticflickr.com/855/28690661447_9725e34d1a_b.jpg[/img
img]https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1782/28690657607_237a6f0f03_b.jpg[/img
img]https://farm1.staticflickr.com/848/43531287072_da503862e5_b.jpg[/img
img]https://farm1.staticflickr.com/839/29707322728_171280223b_b.jpg[/img
img]https://farm1.staticflickr.com/845/43531282072_6fbfb28982_b.jpg[/img

Ok, please let me know if the above 10 pics show up


----------



## Grobbins48

Its working now. I see everything. 

Well worth the effort! Haha

One of my boesemani males has that orange color, two are more yellow. Absolutely beautiful fish. Excited to see them grow and mature over time.


----------



## MCFC

I can see pics from post #414 but just text in post #417 

Edit: Haha I'm a dummy! One day I'll learn how to read good...


----------



## Grobbins48

MCFC said:


> I can see pics from post #414 but just text in post #417


In 417 he was just showing the BB code with a missing [ so we could see if anything was wrong.


----------



## Immortal1

This is from Flickr - pretty sure I made pics "public". Also, it sounds like the pics are now showing up - Thankyou for letting me know!!! Assuming this continues to work, ooks like I have a new image hosting site :grin2:


----------



## Wobblebonk

What's that thing that looks like a fish molted in the last pic?


----------



## Immortal1

Wobblebonk said:


> What's that thing that looks like a fish molted in the last pic?



Well, it's something I wish wasn't in the pic. Took another pic from the same angle and the picture looked worse so I went with the first pic...
It's a dead leaf :frown2: Just happened to be floating under the bright light at the wrong moment. So there, I guess I said it - I need to do a better job of tank maintenance LOL


----------



## Wobblebonk

At least it isn't a rotting rainbow corpse, a dead leaf here and there's not so bad...


----------



## Greggz

Linn what is your latest dosing/specs on everything?? 

How are you liking the new lights?

Still have all the bottom feeders?

That Mermaid Weed is turning into a nice large bunch. You ever let it get real tall and closer to the light? 

And is that just regular Bacopa Carolina? The leaves look huge.


----------



## Smooch

Immortal1 said:


> Been trying to get a decent pic of this little bugger for the last hour - best I can do. Somewhere around 1.5" long - won't let me take him out of tank for an accurate measurement, LOL


Don't you hate when that happens. :biggrin:




Immortal1 said:


> Just happened to be floating under the bright light at the wrong moment. So there, I guess I said it - I need to do a better job of tank maintenance LOL


Slacker! :icon_lol:

Tank is gorgeous as always. <3


----------



## Immortal1

Greggz said:


> Linn what is your latest dosing/specs on everything??
> 
> How are you liking the new lights?
> 
> Still have all the bottom feeders?
> 
> That Mermaid Weed is turning into a nice large bunch. You ever let it get real tall and closer to the light?
> 
> And is that just regular Bacopa Carolina? The leaves look huge.



Actually loving the lights with one minor exception - wish there were 4 blue LED's instead of 2.
Yes, still have the various bottom feeders - sorta. Lost 2 of the 3 Panda Garras due to jumping :frown2:
Mermaid weed is looking a very nice yellow. Generally remove the bottoms when they get about 50 of the tank depth.
Yes, as far as I know that is regular Bacopa carolina. In my tank and the wifes the leaves get huge. In the 20g low tech they are pretty small. 



As for dosing specs:
NO3 is 3 doses of 5ppm + about 2.8ppm from tap for a weekly total of 17.8ppm added. Tank water has been testing around 40ppm for the last month.
PO4 is 3 doses of 1.3ppm for a weekly total of 3.9ppm. Tank water typically tests "blue" by API test.
Also dosing K2SO4 at 7ppm per dose for a weekly total (includes all ferts) of 32.07ppm.
Micros are Burr V13.15 3+ times per week (I try to get atleast 4 doses in per week).
CO2 is pretty much at max - 7.3pH reading when I wake up after air stones running. 7.6ph fully degassed. Dropping to 6.2ph from 10am to 12:30pm. Sometimes only 6.3ph. Much more and the fish seem to complain.
As for PAR, its about 100-105 from 2pm to 7pm. Above 70par for about 8 hours.
Last I checked the GH was 13, KH was 7. Ca was 65ppm, Mg was 17ppm for a 3.82:1 - I added about 4ppm MGS04 to give me about a 3:1 Ca to Mg ratio.


----------



## burr740

If you set it to public people can scroll through your entire album. If you set it to private they can only see the pics you link. 

fyi


----------



## Immortal1

So, was remembering a topic of interest from some time ago but just could not remember where it was. Then, I just happened to find it again so I am just going to add it here with a few notes to remind me why I did this (so to speak).

From: https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/12-tank-journals/1121050-tsings-135-a-11.html - Post 157 of 174.

Following text from @burr740; This is the problem with trying to diagnose according to a symptom. While Roy is absolutely correct, that does look like a Ca deficiency, it also looks like a dozen other possibilities, including pretty much any immobile nutrient. 

So lets assume the tap has 80 ppm of Ca, which seems like a safe assumption at this point based upon all your checking. Part of the reason this post came to mind was my CA level (which I test almost every week) has slowly been moving up. Started at 50ppm and has now reached 70ppm. Did not really like this and I remember somebody else was having a high CA issue.

Since Ca is abnormally high and you cant change it, you're gonna have to dose around it. In other words dose everything else (within reason) based on having 80 ppm of Ca.

Ca has an antagonistic relationship with several nutrients. This is something I feel I should have a better understanding of...

Let's look at our trusty little chart again...










K, Mg, P, Fe, Mn, B and Zn are all possibilities

The first three are mobile nutrients which means they are less likely to affect new growth, which is what you're currently dealing with for the most part.

Although Ive seen first hand low K can stunt tops, often before the classic pinhole signs appear. So let's add that to the list of things to increase.

Personally I find having K on the same levels of Ca and NO3 works best. But since you really dont need 80 ppm, I'd just bump it up closer to whatever NO3 is, maybe not 60, something like 40-45. More interesting info.

Fe, Mn and B are all immobile (likely to affect new growth). Zn is immobile to somewhat mobile depending on where you look. It belongs on the list too.

P is already high. I'd leave it at that and keep an eye on the levels in case they drop when the uptake of everything else is optimized. NO3 levels might drop as well

Mg, based on Ca needs to be 15-20 ppm at least. I have been trying to maintain about a 3:1 to 3.5:1 Ca:Mg ratio

Fe, Mn, B and Zn I'd raise all these 50%, or 25% at least.

Fe should be pretty well insulated due to the strong chelate. Mn is not. So ratio-wise Mn may need increasing beyond the 2:1 Fe ratio. After all it's not the ratio in the dosing bottle that matters. What happens in the water column dictates the ratio

This is just some food for thought and how I'd go about trying to solve your issues.

It's not lack of Ca (lol)

I doubt reducing macros will bear any fruit, especially not K. But of course you can try it and see.

Im pretty sure you are dealing with induced deficiencies, which can be corrected once you know what's responsible for inducing them. Either by reducing one thing or raising another.

And since you cant change Ca levels... Ah, now this may be where we differ - I can change CA levels. I can also predict that change which will be somewhat helpful.
The LFS that is about 1.5 miles from my house will sell me RO water (pretty cheap also). By adding some RO during water change I can bring the CA level back down to the 45-50ppm range. If the city water changes again, my weekly monitoring should note that and I will stop adding RO. As for the MG levels, that is why I was already monitoring the CA level along with the GH levels to calculate out how much MG to add at each water change.


----------



## Immortal1

Status: Out for Delivery
July 31, 2018 at 8:04 am
DAVENPORT, IA 52806 

Excited - getting some new plants today :grin2:
10 R.magenta
8 Ambulia
6 Didiplus
5 P.erectus
3 AR purple


----------



## Greggz

Immortal1 said:


> So, was remembering a topic of interest from some time ago but just could not remember where it was. Then, I just happened to find it again so I am just going to add it here with a few notes to remind me why I did this (so to speak).


Linn this is something we have discussed a few times. Municipal water makes no guarantee of anything. Seasonal changes, source supply changes, dosing changes can affect what you get. So far you've seen both Ca and KH changes in your supply. 

It's just a good thing to keep in mind, as it can be something to be checked and adjusted for.

And looking forward to seeing the plants. Knowing the source, they should be in great shape!!


----------



## Immortal1

Well, figured it was about time to add an update 
In my opinion it was a productive day today - finally added a support post in the crawlspace (something that has been bugging me for awhile now) to help carry the weight of the tanks. Think it was over this past winter that I noticed the 75g had a bit of a front to back "tilt". Was not much, maybe 1/8"-1/4", but it bugged me. Of course, back when I noticed it the health issues kinda ruled out repairs. Anyway, it is done (started?) and the tank is once again perfectly level. I realize with the dirt crawlspace floor I will likely have to "adjust" it from time to time, but that is way easier than building.









Now on to the rest of the productive day  trimming followed by photo shoot! First pic is just a really nice pic of the right side of the tank (I liked it anyway).









This is a closer pic showing off the new Pogo Erectus (thank-you @Maryland Guppy ), some new AR Purple tucked back aways (see if I can get it to grow in the shade so to speak as opposed to full OMG light), and the new Ambuia. This Ambulia looks very similar to the Myriophyllum Mattogrossense that I already had. Will be interesting to see how these 2 will differ after a few months.









This pic is not so much to show off my sickly looking Pogo Kimberly (they were very unhappy for awhile, but doing better now), but to show off the 3 babies. Hopefully I can dial in the various parameters a little better and these new babies will grow to look spectacular. 









Speaking of spectacular - this is the Pogo Kimberly in the wifes tank. Was originally in my tank.









Speaking of the wifes tank - for the moment I have the new Didiplis Diandra stuck in the front left of her tank. Once it settles in I will probably move it but this is a start. And yes, my Bacopa Caroliniana growing farm is in full swing. Think I have now given away probably 20+ full stems this week alone.









And while I am at it - just had to get atleast one bow pic for this post...









And why not a pic of 2 of my 4 janitors keeping things sparkling clean


----------



## RollaPrime

Immortal1 said:


> Seems I might have a bit of an odd ball plant in my tank. According to the LFS, I have an *Anubias Nangi* (back left corner, right behind the Red Dwarf Lilies). Have done some research on this but did not find much information. Anybody here on the Forum have anything to add about this plant? Was kinda surprised when I noticed the flower forming.





Immortal1 said:


> Ok, lets give this a try...



Point taken Mr Immortal1. Point taken. 



This is a stunning evolution! Congrats!


----------



## Greggz

RollaPrime said:


> Point taken Mr Immortal1. Point taken.
> 
> 
> 
> This is a stunning evolution! Congrats!


Boy I like the sound of that..................Mr. Immortal1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:grin2:

We need some more monikers around here.............and to show some respect.

Let's see......I can't decide....should we start with Professor Burr? Dr. Burr? or maybe Admiral Burr?:wink2:

And that is a great illustration of the transition.


----------



## RollaPrime

Greggz said:


> Boy I like the sound of that..................Mr. Immortal1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:grin2:
> 
> We need some more monikers around here.............and to show some respect.
> 
> Let's see......I can't decide....should we start with Professor Burr? Dr. Burr? or maybe Admiral Burr?:wink2:
> 
> And that is a great illustration of the transition.



The "Mr" was definitely for respect. 



If Burr is a refernce to you then I'd definitely go with Admiral. Your rainbows seem to be moving to the same beat with military precision. 



Military precision in this instance = your planted tank.


----------



## Greggz

RollaPrime said:


> The "Mr" was definitely for respect.
> 
> 
> 
> If Burr is a refernce to you then I'd definitely go with Admiral. Your rainbows seem to be moving to the same beat with military precision.
> 
> 
> 
> Military precision in this instance = your planted tank.


No not me, that would be @burr740.

I'm just Private Greggz!:laugh2: Trying to earn my way to a higher rank!


----------



## Wobblebonk

This crap gets confusing when people's user names are your name...


----------



## Greggz

Wobblebonk said:


> This crap gets confusing when people's user names are your name...


Not sure what you mean Lieutenant Wobblebonk, but glad to see you reporting for duty!:wink2:

And I don't think anyone knows the origin of the name Burr740, but maybe someday he will reveal the mystery! By the way I heard he also answers to Obi-Wan!:laugh2:

How about Immortal1!? Must mean something to you Linn??


----------



## Wobblebonk

Burr has had a chuckle about my name, and my first name is the same as another reasonably well respected person's username.


----------



## Immortal1

Greggz said:


> Not sure what you mean Lieutenant Wobblebonk, but glad to see you reporting for duty!:wink2:
> 
> And I don't think anyone knows the origin of the name Burr740, but maybe someday he will reveal the mystery! By the way I heard he also answers to Obi-Wan!:laugh2:
> 
> How about Immortal1!? Must mean something to you Linn??



Mr. Immortal1 - That made me laugh a bit.


As for the story - Immortal was the name my neighbor gave my 1990 Mazda truck (he was not really a car guy). Every winter I would tear the truck down and re-do it for the next show season. According to him, the truck would live forever if I kept up that pace. So, the truck became known as Immortal, and I guess that made me Immortal1 (not sure how that all worked, but that is the story).


----------



## Maryland Guppy

Please don't add Mr. In front of "Phishless"

Don't forget burr's lab in the hills when applying a prefix.>


----------



## Greggz

Wobblebonk said:


> Burr has had a chuckle about my name, and my first name is the same as another reasonably well respected person's username.


So you sayin' your first name is MarylandGuppy??:grin2:

Bump:


Immortal1 said:


> Mr. Immortal1 - That made me laugh a bit.
> 
> 
> As for the story - Immortal was the name my neighbor gave my 1990 Mazda truck (he was not really a car guy). Every winter I would tear the truck down and re-do it for the next show season. According to him, the truck would live forever if I kept up that pace. So, the truck became known as Immortal, and I guess that made me Immortal1 (not sure how that all worked, but that is the story).


Linn I do remember now you told me that a while back. Good story and origin of name. I like it!


----------



## Immortal1

Maryland Guppy said:


> Please don't add Mr. In front of "Phishless"
> 
> Don't forget burr's lab in the hills when applying a prefix.>



Think I like Mr. Guppy better >


----------



## Grobbins48

The past and current side by side is great to see, but the conversation this sparked is one of my more enjoyable reads in a while!


----------



## Immortal1

Grobbins48 said:


> The past and current side by side is great to see, but the conversation this sparked is one of my more enjoyable reads in a while!



So I thought about this one for a minute....
Mr. Grobbins48 just did not seem to roll of the tongue smoothly...
And the various military titles did not seem to fit (Private, Sargent, General...)
So, I came to the conclusion that the only one that really fit was
.
.
.
.
.
Sir Grobbins 48 >


----------



## Grobbins48

Immortal1 said:


> So I thought about this one for a minute....
> Mr. Grobbins48 just did not seem to roll of the tongue smoothly...
> And the various military titles did not seem to fit (Private, Sargent, General...)
> So, I came to the conclusion that the only one that really fit was
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> Sir Grobbins 48 >


Ah, well I do say, what an honour it is to have this title bestowed upon me. I'll shall strive to live up to it!

-Obviously being said with the British accent that I do not possess! Haha

Oh man, too much Downton Abbey in my house apparantly. Haha!


----------



## burr740




----------



## Greggz

Immortal1 said:


> Think I like Mr. Guppy better >


Well while we are at it..............Grandmaster @Dude1, @MCFC USMC, Colonel @Quagulator, Senior @slipfinger........and I am sure many more!!!:wink2::wink2:


----------



## Maryland Guppy

Don't forget the usage of Commodore or Monsignor?


----------



## Immortal1

burr740 said:


>



HEY, now wait a second....
Get back here


----------



## Greggz

Maryland Guppy said:


> Don't forget the usage of Commodore or Monsignor?


Monsignor Greggz!!......................

Now you're talkin' my friend!:wink2:


----------



## MCFC

Greggz said:


> Well while we are at it..............Grandmaster @Dude1, @MCFC USMC, Colonel @Quagulator, Senior @slipfinger........and I am sure many more!!!:wink2::wink2:


Big fan of Colonel @Quagulator!!! 

Dr. Greggz? Great Khan Greggz? Fleet Admiral Greggz?


----------



## Phil Edwards

Petty Officer 1st Class.


----------



## Maryland Guppy

Captain Immortal kinda sounds like a super hero?


----------



## Immortal1

Maryland Guppy said:


> Captain Immortal kinda sounds like a super hero?



Well, maybe to some... >


----------



## Immortal1

Wow. Was doing more research regarding Ca and Mg in a planted tank. Happened across this thread https://barrreport.com/threads/balancing-calcium-and-magnesium.8244/
Real eye opener regarding ratios, levels, etc. Thank-you Tom Barr!


----------



## Greggz

Immortal1 said:


> Wow. Was doing more research regarding Ca and Mg in a planted tank. Happened across this thread https://barrreport.com/threads/balancing-calcium-and-magnesium.8244/
> Real eye opener regarding ratios, levels, etc. Thank-you Tom Barr!


Interesting Linn. 

I tend to agree. IMO, as long as there enough, that is the important thing. I see lot's of diagnosis of plant problems attributing it all to Mg/Ca. When I see many of those pics, I can think of ten other things that might be causing it. 

Not to say it can't be an issue, but it would be low on my list of potential causes for most problems. And in my experience plants are more sensitive to KH levels than GH. But as always, that's just what I have seen.


----------



## Immortal1

@Greggz - considering the various fert levels that you (and me for that matter) are dosing, this was an interesting read as well. Especially the PO4 levels. 
https://www.jbl.de/en/blog/detail/134
"Phosphate, an important plant nutrient, only occurs in very low concentrations in natural waters. The average values are around 0.01 mg/l in freshwater." 
"In freshwater aquariums, PO4 values up to 0.4 mg/l can still be accepted."

as grams per 1,000 liters, which may be converted to milligrams per liter (mg/L). Therefore, 1 g/m3 = 1 mg/L = 1 ppm.


----------



## Greggz

Immortal1 said:


> @Greggz - considering the various fert levels that you (and me for that matter) are dosing, this was an interesting read as well. Especially the PO4 levels.
> https://www.jbl.de/en/blog/detail/134
> "Phosphate, an important plant nutrient, only occurs in very low concentrations in natural waters. The average values are around 0.01 mg/l in freshwater."
> "In freshwater aquariums, PO4 values up to 0.4 mg/l can still be accepted."
> 
> as grams per 1,000 liters, which may be converted to milligrams per liter (mg/L). Therefore, 1 g/m3 = 1 mg/L = 1 ppm.


Interesting stuff Linn.

That same article also says the following.......

_If conditions are unfavourable (particularly in heavily populated aquariums), the phosphate levels may reach values that are sometimes 100 times higher, and more, than natural levels. This inevitably leads to an explosion of undesirable algae. By regularly measuring the phosphate concentration using the JBL Phosphate Test sensitive this threat can be recognised and prevented with the appropriate measures. It is important to know that algae can store considerable quantities of phosphate, enabling them to continue to grow even after the level of phosphate in the water has been reduced_

This was a pretty accepted fact back in the day. High phosphates cause algae. It was kind of a mantra. 

All I can say is that myself, and several other people who are much more accomplished than me have pretty much dismissed that thought. In fact I think the hobby in general has found it not to be true.

In my experience, I have seen no correlation at all between high phosphates and algae. In fact, I have seen the opposite. Too low phosphate levels and plants not as happy, hence algae.

Of course, as usual, one's mileage may vary. 

For me, and I think for you as well, a willingness to experiment and observe then adjust is key. 

And by the way, a while back I started cleaning my filters with much greater frequency. Honestly I think that has made as much difference as all the mumbo jumbo we constantly monkey with. Not saying they don't matter, but they are just one piece of a pretty large pie.


----------



## Immortal1

Greggz said:


> Interesting stuff Linn.
> 
> That same article also says the following.......
> 
> _If conditions are unfavourable (particularly in heavily populated aquariums), the phosphate levels may reach values that are sometimes 100 times higher, and more, than natural levels. This inevitably leads to an explosion of undesirable algae. By regularly measuring the phosphate concentration using the JBL Phosphate Test sensitive this threat can be recognised and prevented with the appropriate measures. It is important to know that algae can store considerable quantities of phosphate, enabling them to continue to grow even after the level of phosphate in the water has been reduced_
> 
> This was a pretty accepted fact back in the day. High phosphates cause algae. It was kind of a mantra.
> 
> All I can say is that myself, and several other people who are much more accomplished than me have pretty much dismissed that thought. In fact I think the hobby in general has found it not to be true.
> 
> In my experience, I have seen no correlation at all between high phosphates and algae. In fact, I have seen the opposite. Too low phosphate levels and plants not as happy, hence algae.
> 
> Of course, as usual, one's mileage may vary.
> 
> For me, and I think for you as well, a willingness to experiment and observe then adjust is key.
> 
> And by the way, a while back I started cleaning my filters with much greater frequency. Honestly I think that has made as much difference as all the mumbo jumbo we constantly monkey with. Not saying they don't matter, but they are just one piece of a pretty large pie.



:grin2: amen. Learning good maintenance makes for a happier tank more so than most other variables. I know I had an unhappy tank for awhile and it wasn't due to maintenance - just trying to figure out exactly what it was. Pretty sure my tank just did not like 15-20ppm nitrate (per API test). Will post pics tomorrow.


----------



## Immortal1

Well, it is time for another round of pics and some odd observations. First the observations - did my weekly 50% water change today and this time I added 10 gallons of RO water to the tank (change about 30 gallons each time). So, I assumed the GH, CA, and MG would decrease some (as not looking for a huge change). Well, the CA level went from 60 to 50 (nice). The KH dropped from 8 to 7 (sounds reasonable).
The GH stayed the same ??? Ok, that was odd. Checked the GH 3 different times (after water change, 3 hours after water change and 7 hours after water change). Was certainly not what I was expecting as I was hoping the Mg level would go down some as well (now calculated at 22ppm). Very odd - oh well, on to something more visually interesting.

Figured I would start with the FTS  Did a fair bit of trimming, re-arranging, and even a bit of removal. Overall I think it is looking better.









Right side from front. A lone P. Kimberly poking above everything else. Probably could have shorted it but figured I would leave it until next weekend. Five other shorter kimberlies are hiding behind the wood.









Here is more of an overhead view of the right side









Left side from front. The Lobelia Cardinalis really got divided up and re-arranged. Will be interesting to see how much I end up with in a few months.









And an overhead of the left side









And for a nice finish - a little love for the wifes tank 









When I added the Anubis Nana Petite the lights were set just a little too bright (ok, they were way too bright). So, a nice dosing of super peroxide and now we have some beautiful Red Beard Algae. The other interesting item of note in this pic is the stem of Ludwigia atlantis. It came from my tank with the brighter lights (note the lower leaves are more brownish orange). The newer upper leaves are more yellowish in color.


----------



## Immortal1

Decided to have a bit of fun this evening while playing around with the lights... 













Absolute soda fountain


----------



## Greggz

It would be very interesting to see what would happen after a few weeks of 200 PAR.

Lot's of pearling......then what?

I'll never know, too chicken to try. 

What PAR are you normally at (substrate)??


----------



## Immortal1

Greggz said:


> It would be very interesting to see what would happen after a few weeks of 200 PAR.
> 
> Lot's of pearling......then what?
> 
> I'll never know, too chicken to try.
> 
> What PAR are you normally at (substrate)??



Substrate may be a bit misleading - sensor is actually about 3-4" above the substrate (best I can do with the holder I have). But, reading is about 95-98 PAR under normal conditions. And that PAR level is for 5 hours. 1.5 hour ramp on either end of the 5 hours is roughly 60-75 PAR (average).


Yes, it would be interesting to run 150-180 PAR for 2-3 hours each day. But, it would have to be something I slowly work up to. My guess is if I just start tomorrow one or more ferts would bottom out within a few hours then everything would go to #&!! and I am just ready to deal with the month long cleanup, lol.


But it is interesting to know that "if" I wanted to....


Was certainly surprised at how much *more* pearling there was when I turned the lights up.


----------



## Phil Edwards

You're running Radeons, right? Have you tried setting a custom program to ramp up and down over the day? The FW versions have a preset Lake setting that does that too.


----------



## Immortal1

Phil Edwards said:


> You're running Radeons, right? Have you tried setting a custom program to ramp up and down over the day? The FW versions have a preset Lake setting that does that too.



Phil, yes I am running a custom setup. What you see below results in 95-98 PAR from 2pm to 7pm.










Really do like the adjust-ability of these lights. I honestly could add a section say between 5pm and 6:30pm where the lights bump up to a much higher power. It's actually a very easy to use program.


----------



## Phil Edwards

Yeah, that's one of the things I miss most.


----------



## Greggz

Immortal1 said:


>


You know, when I see the programming capabilities, it does make me wonder how my tank would do with lights like that. It appeals to the technology geek side of me, as I love gadgets.

Very cool looking programming capabilities there.

Who knows, maybe someday.


----------



## Immortal1

Well Gregg, I'm sure your tank would do just fine (arm being twisted). I will be honest in that I believe you can get a better color of light with your setup - i.e. more of a 7,000k vs 4,000k (a little less arm twisting). Sitting here looking at the two tanks, the dual Fluval 2.0 lights on the 40 gallon do appear more white, or crisp, or whatever. My tank can be programmed to get closer to that look, but not at 100PAR.

The real fun with these lights, as you noted, is the programming ability. There really is no limit to the number of data points you can add. Every morning at 5:30am the tank turns on for me with a very subtle orange glow. And every night the tank turns back to a similar orange sunset glow - very calming (arm being twisted to breaking point, LOL).


----------



## Greggz

Immortal1 said:


> The real fun with these lights, as you noted, is the programming ability. There really is no limit to the number of data points you can add. Every morning at 5:30am the tank turns on for me with a very subtle orange glow. And every night the tank turns back to a similar orange sunset glow - very calming (arm being twisted to breaking point, LOL).


You know, I do something similar with my lights. Start with moonlight, then very subtle morning light from LED, then medium light, then high light.....then reversed until moonlight in the evening.

The difference is I have a convoluted scheme of 5 timers controlling it all. Yeah, it's a bit old school to say the least.

Believe me, the control aspect you have IS tempting, and I do feel the arm being twisted a bit. But I do still love the results from T5HO, and it would be a huge leap to change. But like I said, maybe someday.


----------



## Maryland Guppy

Greggz said:


> The difference is I have a convoluted scheme of 5 timers controlling it all. Yeah, it's a bit old school to say the least.
> 
> Believe me, the control aspect you have IS tempting, and I do feel the arm being twisted a bit. But I do still love the results from T5HO, and it would be a huge leap to change. But like I said, maybe someday.


You've got the PAR meter to measure the light.
LED the wave of the future!!!
Don't hold those purse strings so tight! :grin2:


----------



## Greggz

Maryland Guppy said:


> You've got the PAR meter to measure the light.
> LED the wave of the future!!!
> Don't hold those purse strings so tight! :grin2:


Believe me if I thought it would grow plant betters, I would loosen the purse strings.

But you know, at some point T5HO is going to be like tube amps and vinyl.....all of the cool kids will have it........I'm just ahead of the curve.


----------



## Maryland Guppy

Just poking fun here.

LED's are the wave of the future though, but PAR & PUR are just that.
MH fixtures are still widely used in the hobby but they won't advance more than they are now.

Even read where Tom is going to Cree LED I believe.

Cara Wade from AGA has been writing some good info lately in TAG regarding color temperature/Kelvin.
A definite eye opener for many with misconceptions in LED technology.

If you ever consider LED @ a DIY level please ask for info!


----------



## Immortal1

Maryland Guppy said:


> Just poking fun here.
> 
> LED's are the wave of the future though, but PAR & PUR are just that.
> MH fixtures are still widely used in the hobby but they won't advance more than they are now.
> 
> Even read where Tom is going to Cree LED I believe.
> 
> Cara Wade from AGA has been writing some good info lately in TAG regarding color temperature/Kelvin.
> A definite eye opener for many with misconceptions in LED technology.
> 
> If you ever consider LED @ a DIY level please ask for info!



What is TAG? Would be interested in reading this article!


----------



## Maryland Guppy

AGA publication "The Aquatic Gardener"


----------



## Immortal1

Video basically says it all. Upon further inspection, there is actually 2 of them.
Barclaya Longifolia Red






Maybe this?


----------



## Immortal1

The Labor Day FTS - view from the couch


----------



## vvDO

Immortal1 said:


> The Labor Day FTS - view from the couch




Wow those bows look huge!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Wobblebonk

Sometimes I feel like a 120 is small for some bows...


----------



## Maryland Guppy

Evening Linn:
How are those plants doing???


----------



## Immortal1

Maryland Guppy said:


> Evening Linn:
> How are those plants doing???



Well, not too bad actually. 

The R. Magenta seemed to take awhile to adjust but now the tops seems to be doing pretty well. Give it a few more weeks and I'm sure it will be doing just fine.
The Ambula is a really neat plant. After some adjustment, it is now looking pretty good. Several of the stems have nice full tops. Unfortunately the lights are dimming so the pics are not showing them in full bloom. Maybe tomorrow?










The AR Purple is struggling along. For some reason AR in general seems to be my Achilles Heal. I seem to be doing better with my ferts (better than about 1 month ago when it was too lean).










I have the Didiplis Diandra in the wifes tank - seems to be doing well now after initial adjustment. At least it is nice and green looking.










As for the P. Erectus, I know its in there somewhere but the tank is getting dark enough I cant find it. I have a feeling it is not doing as well as the others.


As you can see in the background of the first pic, the Dwarf Rotala is just going crazy with the new lighting levels and ferts. I suspect the Ambula and the Rotala Magenta will really start filling in.


Will have to post a pic of the Limnophila aromatica 'mini' - this stuff has been sitting almost dormant in the tank for the last 4-5 months. Now it's starting to look more like a bush.


Curious, whats your thoughts on Ludwigia atlantis? Stuffs seems to grow just fine in my tank - but the problem in my opinion is it seems to grow sideways almost as much as it grows vertically. It just seems to want to take over all available space. Thinking instead of cutting as tossing the bottoms I may try leaving the bottoms in place and just try trimming off the tops every week.

Bump: Evening Lights...


----------



## Maryland Guppy

Seems for the most part things are working out OK.
AR purple is quite the different plant, very different from regular AR.
It is tough and can survive the worst, I've put it through hell before.


----------



## Immortal1

Maryland Guppy said:


> Seems for the most part things are working out OK.
> AR purple is quite the different plant, very different from regular AR.
> It is tough and can survive the worst, I've put it through hell before.


:grin2: Sounds like I still have a chance! Ok, would AR Purple be like AR mini in that you don't want to uproot it - but instead keep chopping off the top and letting it regrow?

PLANT GUIDE-​ALTERNANTHERA REINECKII


----------



## Maryland Guppy

I've always uprooted and tossed the bottoms.
Keep the tops.
This stuff can get 2' tall and as purple as they can get.
I've been keeping it in a minimal CO2 tank (10ppm) so that I don't toss it.
Stems can be over 1/4" easy when things are right.


----------



## Immortal1

Maryland Guppy said:


> I've always uprooted and tossed the bottoms.
> Keep the tops.
> This stuff can get 2' tall and as purple as they can get.
> I've been keeping it in a minimal CO2 tank (10ppm) so that I don't toss it.
> Stems can be over 1/4" easy when things are right.


Hmmm, definitely something to look forward to. Hope I can make that happen as it would make an excellent addition to the tank.


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## Immortal1

Well, seeing as @Greggz is going to be out of town for a few days - figured I had better try and get some decent bow pics posted in his absence....









































And I suppose I probably should post some better plant pics than those from last nite ;-)


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## RainbowRob

2nd pic, what spc. is he????


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## Immortal1

DiscusRob said:


> 2nd pic, what spc. is he????


Yellow Rainbow fish (Melanotaenia herbertaxelrodi)


----------



## RainbowRob

Thank You, awesome fish, I was hoping it might have been a Glossolepis wanamensis, it's on my wish list and I haven't seen them for sale anywhere. Tank is awesome. Love the way it looks.


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## Immortal1

DiscusRob said:


> Thank You, awesome fish, I was hoping it might have been a Glossolepis wanamensis, it's on my wish list and I haven't seen them for sale anywhere. Tank is awesome. Love the way it looks.


Thank-you!


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## Maryland Guppy

Captain Immortal filling in for Monsignor Gregg.
I like this, more pics of my Boes from the free lease program! >


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## Greggz

Immortal1 said:


> Well, seeing as @Greggz is going to be out of town for a few days - figured I had better try and get some decent bow pics posted in his absence...


Thanks for covering for me Linn!! Will be across the pond until the weekend.

Rainbows look great, and plants too.

What's your PAR at the substrate these days?

And did you start upping your dosing? Just curious.


----------



## Immortal1

Greggz said:


> Thanks for covering for me Linn!! Will be across the pond until the weekend.
> 
> Rainbows look great, and plants too.
> 
> What's your PAR at the substrate these days?
> 
> And did you start upping your dosing? Just curious.



Thanks Gregg - enjoy the trip (even if it is for business)

PAR is around 110-115 these days for about 6.5 hours. Above 90 PAR for 8 hours.
Yes I did. Weekly totals as follows:
NO3 = 27.8ppm (double dose after Sunday water change, then single dose Mon / Wed / Fri)
PO4 = 6.5ppm (double dose after Sunday water change, then single dose Mon / Wed / Fri)
K = 32.45ppm (accounts for KNO3 & KH2PO4 dosing. K2SO4 dosed only 2 times per week)


Micros are still Burr V13.15 at 5 times per week - but I am almost out of juice so we will see what I mix up next :grin2:


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## gt turbo

Immortal1 said:


> So true - I can't hide ;-)
> I do want to take another FTS after I trim things up but I simply ran out of time this past weekend. I did have to chuckle over the weekend when the wife was sitting in front of out tanks holding Harry our bearded dragon. He seems very interested in "fish TV". So tonite I grabbed one of the spare 10 gallon tanks, fashioned an improvised stand and tossed Harry in the empty tank. After about 10-15 minutes of figuring out where he was he turned towards the fish and has been propped up watching them for about an hour. Could not pass up the chance to post a pic of that one.



I gotta show this to my daughter. She's 5 and wants a beardie so bad. She told me she's gonna be a vet cause she loves animals. She'll freak at how he's just there sitting watching those fish.


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## Immortal1

Couple of pics from late yesterday - basically the ones I kept


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## burr740

I see that Barclaya is finally taking off, put some green behind it


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## Immortal1

Various FTS from todays weekly water change day...

Did a major trim on the 75g. Also re-arranged a few groups based on the above suggestion ;-)
Now I just have to wait and see how the changes fill in...









Wifes 40g - still needs a major trim but only had time for a water change.









One of the Betta tanks (really should have cleaned the glass).









The other Betta tank.


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## Immortal1

Well, now this is interesting - can't say I have ever seen a 2 tone leaf...









And have to give a shout out to Joe @burr740 for some new plants for my addiction - a few stems of limnophila butterfly and several pogostemon helferi downoi

























And of course a FTS


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## Immortal1

Finally, what I think is a good FTS


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## Greggz

Nice pic!

Much better color rendition than the last one.

Messing around with Pro mode settings?


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## Immortal1

Greggz said:


> Nice pic!
> 
> Much better color rendition than the last one.
> 
> Messing around with Pro mode settings?



I have been, but in this shot it's actually the lights that made the difference - they are at maybe 20-30% of normal 2pm brightness. 

Just sitting here on the couch typing away and I looked over and though... hey that looks good! Wonder what the camera will see?


If I had time, what I should do is fashion some sort of stand for the cell phone, then take a picture every 10 or 15 minutes during the ramp up period of the lights. Maybe then I could figure out when to take my best FTS shot?


Ok, too much work LOL

Edit: in the FTS from the previous post the lights were at full power and I was trying to adjust settings in the pro mode. So, either I suck at pro mode or..... 

See, here's what I guess I havn't figured out yet - how can I turn up the light power for better color and yet get a black foreground and nearly black tank background? FYI, this is a pic from Facebook that I found literally minutes after I posted my pic.


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## RainbowRob

"If I had time, what I should do is fashion some sort of stand for the cell phone, then take a picture every 10 or 15 minutes during the ramp up period of the lights. Maybe then I could figure out when to take my best FTS shot?"

I don't think you will, j/k. Tank is awesome looking.


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## ChrisX

Immortal1 said:


> See, here's what I guess I havn't figured out yet - how can I turn up the light power for better color and yet get a black foreground and nearly black tank background? FYI, this is a pic from Facebook that I found literally minutes after I posted my pic.


I don't know how to answer your question. With your radions, are the color channels already being run at full?

Your tank looks really good although I agree the colors in the Facebook tank are just great. From the color bands on the wall, it appears that those are LED lights. Are they DIY or commercial lights?


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## Immortal1

@ChrisX I really don't know anything about the tank other than it looks much better than mine. With regards to my color channels, no they are not ALL at full power. Basically they look like this..


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## ChrisX

I am in the same boat, chasing the look with leds. Love your tank.

Ive noticed the substrate color makes a big difference to the overall look of the tank. And also, may influence the way the camera captures the colors.


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## vvDO

*Immortal1 75g journey (pic heavy)*



ChrisX said:


> I don't know how to answer your question. With your radions, are the color channels already being run at full?
> 
> 
> 
> Your tank looks really good although I agree the colors in the Facebook tank are just great. From the color bands on the wall, it appears that those are LED lights. Are they DIY or commercial lights?




I think his question was more towards getting the right exposure to light up all plants while keeping background and tank border well defined/dark.

You may have to play around with some photo editing software. I use adobe photoshop Lightroom cc app, free version you can edit jpegs on your phone. Mess with exposure, contrast, black point, etc.

The trick is when taking the photo make sure high light areas are not overly blown, too bright and you’ll lose detail.

Here’s an edit of the 2nd to last FTS photo you posted, an extreme edit, not very natural looking but see how you can darken certain areas like your background... hope you don’t mind...










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Greggz

ChrisX said:


> Ive noticed the substrate color makes a big difference to the overall look of the tank. And also, may influence the way the camera captures the colors.


Good point on the substrate. A monochromatic substrate, whether it be light or dark, tends to make the plants "pop" more, and makes a scape seem more defined. 

In your tank Linn, the Helferi is a good example. With a solid dark or light substrate they would "pop" much more. 

As to Pro Mode settings, white balance and brightness make the most difference.

With brightness turned down a bit, you'll have less "washed out" areas where too much light causes hot/shiny spots, if that makes sense. Color will look better and deeper, and black background will disappear. Better to take the shot with less brightness, then brighten it up later if you need to. 

With the LED's, you also might turn up the color channels. Big difference for me if my highly colored bulbs aren't on. Also, a dark room with no ambient light works best. IMO better to have full lighting for clarity, but adjust camera settings to compensate.

I've been using 4K white balance, but that's just trial and error to see what makes the pics look closest to what you are actually seeing.

But hey, whatever you did on that last one seems to be working pretty well already.


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## Immortal1

@vvDO - No, I definitely don't mind learning. Will have to do some experimenting with your suggestions.


"I think his question was more towards getting the right exposure to light up all plants while keeping background and tank border well defined/dark."

Exactly what I am trying to say / do!


----------



## ChrisX

Do you guys really think it has so much to do with getting the camera settings correct as it does getting the tank / light colors correct?

Are all these wonderful tank shots a result of careful camera work?


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## Grobbins48

ChrisX said:


> Do you guys really think it has so much to do with getting the camera settings correct as it does getting the tank / light colors correct?
> 
> Are all these wonderful tank shots a result of careful camera work?


The camera settings make a world of difference, regardless of the light. White balance, exposure, ISO, shutter speed, etc. can really drive what you are looking for. Not to mention all of the post photo shoot editing you can do with saturation, black levels, highlights, etc. 

Now one can do this to try and achieve a picture that is as realistic a possible, or a picture that looks as 'perfect' as can be. Each has their own merits and times to use. I personally attempt to replicate what I see, but at times it is quite a bit of fun to play with different setting in pro editor or lightroom cc.


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## Immortal1

Well, lets have a little fun...
This FTS was take with all the slider bars at maximum - so, basically 160 to 180 par type maximum. I then darkened the exposure on the camera some so it was not too over exposed. It is interesting how much the camera adjusts itself - as I made major visual changes to the lights, the camera compensated so that it more or less looked the same. Some differences, but not much.









And was a bit amazed that I got this shot before the bubble floated away...









And yes Gregg, a BDBS substrate would make this a better picture


----------



## Greggz

ChrisX said:


> Do you guys really think it has so much to do with getting the camera settings correct as it does getting the tank / light colors correct?
> 
> Are all these wonderful tank shots a result of careful camera work?


ChrisX it's both.

First you need to start off with good subject matter. There is no question about that.

Personally even with monkeying around with the camera settings, I usually can't seem to capture the actual colors that I am seeing. Always looks better in person. So making adjustments with the camera is just an effort to replicate what I see.

You can't create color that's not there with the settings, without making it look obvious and really unnatural. The tricky part for me is capturing what I actually see, which isn't easy sometimes.


----------



## Immortal1

Saw @Greggz post and figured I would make use of his spreadsheet (much simpler than the mess I have). Forgot to add one critical piece of info - the * in the water info section references the water quality report from the local provider. What I find a bit interesting now that I am playing around with the Micros - the water quality reports list copper and iron. 
Should I take that into consideration when mixing my Micros?

Also, because somebody will ask - I am dosing K2SO4 2 times per week (Su & W) so that is how I am getting a weekly total of 32.45 K.










http://www.amwater.com/ccr/quadcities.pdf

http://www.amwater.com/twq/quadcities_twq.pdf


----------



## Greggz

Linn this is exactly the reason I posted the spreadsheet.

Now I can pull mine up, set it next to yours, and see where the differences are. The weekly totals are particularly interesting. 

It's great food for thought and might lead to some good discussions.

As to what's in the tap, yes you can adjust for that. For instance, Burr has a little Cu in his tap, so he doses a lower level. I didn't set it up to input those numbers (I did for macros), but who knows maybe add that in version 3.0.


----------



## Immortal1

Greggz said:


> Linn this is exactly the reason I posted the spreadsheet.
> 
> Now I can pull mine up, set it next to yours, and see where the differences are. The weekly totals are particularly interesting.
> 
> It's great food for thought and might lead to some good discussions.
> 
> As to what's in the tap, yes you can adjust for that. For instance, Burr has a little Cu in his tap, so he doses a lower level. I didn't set it up to input those numbers (I did for macros), but who knows maybe add that in version 3.0.



Always interested in good discussions!


What surprises me is my weekly Cu total by micros is 0.01ppm. The water report says my tap water has 0.16ppm of copper. Seems to me I shouldn't be adding ANY copper to my Micro mix. 

So, back to the Mulder's Chart? It would seem Cu is antagonistic with Fe, N, & P - hmmm, very interesting. And what am I dosing a lot of ???


----------



## Immortal1

Interesting bit of info from the master...

*From The Barr Report:*
*nerbaneth;38321 said: I'd be curious to find out the level of copper that is just enough to kill algea and not enough to kill plants or shrimp. The LFS I work at insists on using copper in the FW system - which includes the plants.. which means that if we don't sell the plants within a couple weeks of getting them, they die.*

This is well known.

for algae, 0.4ppm
for plants, about 1.0ppm

Obviously, this varies plant to plant, alga to alga.

Shrimp on the other hand will likely be below 0.4ppm of Copper..........so you are already dead in the water with this if you have shrimp.

Regards,
Tom Barr


#16
Tom Barr, Jun 30, 2009


----------



## Immortal1

Spent a bit of time looking thru the photography thread - this one and thought I might try some different camera settings on my LG G6 phone. 
For reference, WB=6000, EV= -2.0, ISO = 100, S = 1/30, Filter = Pure. These pics are straight from the phone - no editing at all.




































Will work on a few different pics later today with the room gets a bit darker. So far, this seems like an improvement over what I have been posting.


----------



## Greggz

Linn try a few with 4000K WB. For me it seems to bring out the most natural colors that I see. Would be curious how it works for you.


----------



## Immortal1

Greggz said:


> Linn try a few with 4000K WB. For me it seems to bring out the most natural colors that I see. Would be curious how it works for you.



For Reference. All values same as above except WB is adjusted in each picture.
WB = 7000k, ISO = 100, S = 1/30









WB = 6000k, ISO = 200, S = 1/80









WB = 6000k, ISO = 100, S = 1/30









WB = 5000k, ISO = 100, S = 1/30









WB = 4000k, ISO = 100, S = 1/30









WB = 3000k, ISO = 100, S = 1/30










I think we all will agree the 3000k is not very pleasing :wink2:

Edit: I guess what the wife and I really noticed is the hard scape (wood) was a real indicator of WB setting. The 5000k is pretty much the bottom end of what looks correct. The 4000k looks wrong and the 3000 just looks horrible. Will try to add a 7000k to this list...

Well how about this... I actually got the 3 newest bows to pose for a single picture. Pretty surprised when I went back thru the various pictures and saw this one.


----------



## Grobbins48

Try a higher ISO and faster shutter speed to crisp things a bit. Even ISO 200 great IMO with a 1/90 or so shutter speed.


----------



## Greggz

Wow quite a difference. 

Shows that each person really needs to mess around with the settings on their own device.

And nice shot of the new Bows. See what I mean about sometimes it's just pure luck.


----------



## Immortal1

Greggz said:


> Wow quite a difference.
> 
> Shows that each person really needs to mess around with the settings on their own device.
> 
> And nice shot of the new Bows. See what I mean about sometimes it's just pure luck.



Agree 100%


----------



## Immortal1

Grobbins48 said:


> Try a higher ISO and faster shutter speed to crisp things a bit. Even ISO 200 great IMO with a 1/90 or so shutter speed.



Grobbins, if you go back to that post I have added a new pic with the ISO 200. 

For what it's worth, my LG-G6 camera offers the following;
S = 1/8, 1/13, 1/20, 1/30, 1/50, 1/80, 1/125, 1/200 (edit; there are 1/2 settings between each of the labeled settings)
ISO = 50, 100, 200, 400, 600, 800, 1200, 1600
WB = 2400k to 7400k with increments every 200k

Now, I will admit I am no expert on all these camera settings. I try one setting (say ISO), then see how the others settings change the picture. 

The other thing I have noticed is what I see on the actual cell phone screen is not exactly what shows up on the computer screen after I load the picture into Flickr (FYI, I do not add any filters in Flickr)

Thinking I am now liking the WB = 6000k, ISO = 200, S = 1/80 the best.


----------



## burr740

Can you put the white balance on auto in pro mode? Doing that on mine looks slightly better and more true to life than the best manual setting. Its a subtle difference but still a little better


----------



## Immortal1

burr740 said:


> Can you put the white balance on auto in pro mode? Doing that on mine looks slightly better and more true to life than the best manual setting. Its a subtle difference but still a little better


Yes, I can set WB to auto. The Focus can also be set to auto. For the ISO and the S there is also a button I can push that will automatically set them but honestly the ISO / S auto button does not look quite right. It's quite interesting now that I am learning a bit more as to what all those features mean / do, I am getting better at making pictures that look pretty close to what you guys have been posting for several years. I'm a little slow, but I get there eventually :grin2:


----------



## Immortal1

Well, it's Sunday and typically that means a morning of playing around with the various fish tanks. Decided to do a pretty big trim on the 75 & 40 gallon tanks and move a few couple groups around a bit. 

This FTS was taken before the weed wacker was up to full speed  Note (WB 6100K, Auto Focus, EV -1.8, ISO 200, S 1/80)









Various shots during trimming...

































And it would seem SuperMan was happy once again. Typically water change day makes him "happy". Kinda amazing in person how the orangish yellow stripe will turn on and off within seconds - literally like a light switch. Obviously these 2 pics are "on"

















Still not sure if I like this shot or not. The underside reflection on the surface is kinda neat...


----------



## Immortal1

Ok, what are your thoughts on these 2 shots? (Note: WB 5300K, Auto Focus, EV 0.0, ISO 200, S 1/40, Filter = Mellow), any better?


----------



## Greggz

I like the last ones in post 527 above. Looks more natural to me. The other one looks like a little too much yellow/orange influence.......but that's just me. 

And full tank shots are looking better all the time. Quite a difference from the scape dominated by crypts/swords not too long ago. Very nice progression as you've added more stems/color. 

And the Bows are looking great too. Flashing/sparring is always fun to watch. Like you said, they sure can turn on the color to another level when they want to.


----------



## RainbowRob

+1 on Greggz's comment, took me a few to come around, based on what I'm used too, still learning the camera settings, but Gregg is dead on. Looks awesome.


----------



## Immortal1

No particular reason other than I have been sitter here all week looking at these 2 so I figured, why not 










Think I like this one better....


----------



## Greggz

Curious. Of the two photos above, which one looks closer to the color that you see in person??

And two other things. That Bacopa looks like it has huge tops. And the wife's tank is looking nice and healthy.

P.S. Have you ever thought of using that entire space for one LARGE tank? Looks like a 120 or 125 would go nicely there!


----------



## RollaPrime

Immortal1 said:


> And it would seem SuperMan was happy once again. Typically water change day makes him "happy". Kinda amazing in person how the orangish yellow stripe will turn on and off within seconds - literally like a light switch. Obviously these 2 pics are "on"



Clearly we can see what's on Superman's mind. Stunning!


----------



## Immortal1

Greggz said:


> Curious. Of the two photos above, which one looks closer to the color that you see in person??
> 
> And two other things. That Bacopa looks like it has huge tops. And the wife's tank is looking nice and healthy.
> 
> P.S. Have you ever thought of using that entire space for one LARGE tank? Looks like a 120 or 125 would go nicely there!



LOL, yes the wife HAS mentioned that a 6' long 125 would fit perfectly. Would only need one more light and we would be set...
Not sure I am ready for that much work yet.


As for the Bacopa, thats pretty much how they look - maybe a little bigger in my tank than hers. Maybe its the lights.... yeah, has to be the lights LOL


As for which looks correct in person - really depends on where you are looking. The color of the back wall looks more olive than the first pic, but not as much as the second pic. 

The Barclaya looks very correct in the second pic. 

In the first pic, the green plants look closer to correct, but in the second pic her tank looks perfect!


I give :crying:


----------



## ChrisX

On my monitor, I like the first one. The second pic looks brownish.


----------



## Greggz

ChrisX said:


> On my monitor, I like the first one. The second pic looks brownish.


I tend to agree. The first one looks more natural to me. And a better separation of the various shades of green. 

And I have to add.......Linn your tank has come a long way from maybe about a year ago.

Really seem to be hitting your stride now. Quite a journey, and nice work!

If you are anything like me (weak mind, easily influenced by the power of suggestion) I expect to see the 125G before long. I gotta think it's the next step for you.


----------



## Immortal1

Well that was an interesting afternoon. Just surfing thru good old FB and I see the following post...

Ecotech Marine XR15fw fixtures
$550
Monticello, IA

Looking to sell New in box Ecotech xr15fw fixtures. These are the new gen4 fixtures. Bought these for a 90 gallon tank but am going a different direction. One is new in box still has the seal on it and the other I have taken out and powered up to check it out. Looking to sell for 550.00 for the pair. 

Kinda odd that the wife and I were just talking about getting a 3rd light for her tank, somewhat for aesthetic reasons - somewhat for possible future planning (quiet Gregg). So we take the just over 1 hour to Monticello and end up returning with both lights. Looks like I will have so work to do this week. Guessing I will also be heading over to the LFS in search of another used Radion arm, LOL

(quiet Gregg!!!)


----------



## Immortal1

Ya know @Greggz - I was just kidding about being quiet :grin2:

I finally got the 3rd light setup, got both tanks cleaned up, and seeing as I have nothing else I'm allowed to do today - must be time for some pictures >
I think so far today I have taken more than 30 pictures with various camera settings. If they looked good on the phone, I uploaded them to Flickr. Then, as always, they look a bit "different" from what I see on the camera. So, more pictures. Will start off with an overall shot, then a few of the wifes tank.

This shot was taken with the "Vivid" filter. Not really sure if I like it or not. With the filter set to none, the pictures seemed more bland. The "Classic" filter was better than none on the phone but looked a bit bland as well once uploaded.









These next few are her tank

































And of course some of mine. Oddly enough, the FTS just does not seem completely correct color wise. Parts of the shot are spot on - others not so much.

























And yes Gregg, the Bacoppa tops do get pretty big...


----------



## Ken Keating1

Beautiful tanks @Immortal1, plants and fish look great!


----------



## Greggz

Linn once you get your strength back........it looks like it's time for a trim!

You're getting a bit of the "jungle" look now.:grin2:

But seriously, before long I would create a little elbow room in there. You have plants really growing well now, and plant mass management becomes more important.

And yes those lights would look perfect over a 125G. I can see it now....................well, before long I bet!:wink2:


----------



## Immortal1

Greggz said:


> Linn once you get your strength back........it looks like it's time for a trim!
> 
> You're getting a bit of the "jungle" look now.:grin2:
> 
> But seriously, before long I would create a little elbow room in there. You have plants really growing well now, and plant mass management becomes more important.
> 
> And yes those lights would look perfect over a 125G. I can see it now....................well, before long I bet!:wink2:



Agreed - time for some "elbow room". Of the 20 or so different plants in the tank, the one plant I am just not sure what to do with is the Barclaya. Maybe I can get @burr740 to chime in and tell me how to handle it. I suspect it would be a lot like the Hygro Compact - pull the whole thing out, peel off the babies, create more plants. But, as big as it is I suspect the root system could be very big. Again, have no experience with it.


As for the 125 - maybe someday :grin2:


----------



## Greggz

Immortal1 said:


> Agreed - time for some "elbow room". Of the 20 or so different plants in the tank, the one plant I am just not sure what to do with is the Barclaya. Maybe I can get @burr740 to chime in and tell me how to handle it. I suspect it would be a lot like the Hygro Compact - pull the whole thing out, peel off the babies, create more plants.


Might be interested in some of that Barclaya............let me know if you get some decent little ones off of it.


----------



## burr740

Looking great man

Barclaya, if you see actual baby plants then yes just pull it up, pinch those off, whittle the mama down a little bit and replant. Roots are probably big but not crazy like a monster sword or something. You can cut those off around 2" or so to make replanting easy. Wont hurt it

If there are no distinguishable babies yet, probably best to leave it be and just pinch off the biggest, oldest leaves as needed to keep it the size you want. These will always be the outermost leaves, so its easy to do with the plant still in place.


----------



## Immortal1

burr740 said:


> Looking great man
> 
> Barclaya, if you see actual baby plants then yes just pull it up, pinch those off, whittle the mama down a little bit and replant. Roots are probably big but not crazy like a monster sword or something. You can cut those off around 2" or so to make replanting easy. Wont hurt it
> 
> If there are no distinguishable babies yet, probably best to leave it be and just pinch off the biggest, oldest leaves as needed to keep it the size you want. These will always be the outermost leaves, so its easy to do with the plant still in place.



Thank-you Sir! Given the diameter of the base of the plant (50 cent piece at least) I am going to guess there a few baby plants down there. Looks like I might have a project for tomorrow :grin2:


----------



## Little Soprano

Your tanks are absolutely stunning!


----------



## Immortal1

burr740 said:


> Looking great man
> 
> Barclaya, if you see actual baby plants then yes just pull it up, pinch those off, whittle the mama down a little bit and replant. Roots are probably big but not crazy like a monster sword or something. You can cut those off around 2" or so to make replanting easy. Wont hurt it
> 
> If there are no distinguishable babies yet, probably best to leave it be and just pinch off the biggest, oldest leaves as needed to keep it the size you want. These will always be the outermost leaves, so its easy to do with the plant still in place.



Well @burr740 I opted to pull the whole plant for a little "maintenance". Guess I missed the size of the base by a little bit, LOL. Was a lot bigger than I expected. 











After pulling things apart, I ended up putting several plantlets back in my tank (FTS to follow), and what you see below is what was left. GreggZ opted to accept the larger chuncks and some of the remaining little ones went into the wifes tank for safe keeping


----------



## burr740

Oh yeah it was time to split that sucker up!

It'll sit there for a while doing nothing, then all of a sudden take off. And when it does it grows FAST


----------



## Immortal1

Agreed @burr740 - should have broken it up 6 months ago. Also agreed, will probably be 1-2 months for it to re-grow a good root structure before it begins shooting out new leaves (based on previous experience). 

Ok, now onto something I just did not expect. Yesterday I changed my cell phone camera settings AND turned on the flash to get a good picture of something "not" fish tank related. Today I found a need to take a picture of the wifes tank and did not even think about changing the settings. The picture below is what resulted :surprise:

The color of the wall paint is nearly exact. The overall look of the tank is astonishingly accurate. The color of the wood holding up the InkBird controllers is also exact.... How the #&!! did I do that???










So, I just now took a picture of my tank - no changes to the camera. Partly to see what would result and partly to show the changes made yesterday to the plants.










Everything outside the tank looks pretty much correct. The red of the Ludwigia sp Red looks flat and the rest of the greens also look a bit flat ( the Limnophila aromatica 'mini' looks very washed out, Pogo Kimberly looks almost colorless, and I really hate how the fish look) but... maybe I just need to take a few more pics exploring a few more of the 1,000's of possible settings :grin2:


----------



## Greggz

Linn instead of the camera settings, have you messed around with the spectrum of the LED's? 

I know I can change the look of my tank quite a bit depending on which banks of bulbs (different colors) are on.


----------



## Immortal1

Greggz said:


> Linn instead of the camera settings, have you messed around with the spectrum of the LED's?
> 
> I know I can change the look of my tank quite a bit depending on which banks of bulbs (different colors) are on.



Now that you mention it.... Might be something I will look into tomorrow


----------



## Immortal1

Well, it's been 9 days since I did an update and there has been of discussions on TPT that I have been a small part of. One discussion revolved around air stones, surface ripple, co2 off gassing, etc. At some point I did a couple of videos with the intent of documenting what I was doing. Unfortunately the first video with the fan & airstone turned off was recorded at a very low resolution (looked like crap so I deleted it). The second video looked much better and is the one below. For what it's worth, I suppose one could comment their surface ripple is either greater than mine, less than mine, more elongated than mine, whatever - but atleast this should be something to use as a comparison.





And while I was doing some videos, I decided this one was worth uploading 





And now for a bunch of random pics that I felt were worthy of passing along (have probably taken more than 100 pics in the last 9 days as I had little else to do, LOL


----------



## Immortal1

Seems my colectoritis has been in full swing the last few days. Went to a local swap meet and ended up leaving with 3 new plants. One of them - Limnophila hippuridoides went in the wifes tank.
In my tank I added several stems of Rotala Ramosior Florida and several Pogostemon Helferi. The vendor selling the pogo helferi had like 6 of them in a plastic container for $5 - just could not pass that up.

I ended up spending the day doing some trimming and a bit of condensing. Sold a bunch of cuttings and also one of the BN Plecos as well. Ok, enough rambling...

Group of crypts from the 20g tank. REALLY should have done this a long time ago!









Bye bye L144 BN Pleco...









New grouping of Rotala Ramosior Florida. With any luck this will do better than some of my recent tank additions.


















And for some reason I just really liked this shot...


----------



## Immortal1

I have been intending on updating this but just have not taken any new pictures worth posting. 
I did shoot this video yesterday and while watching it this morning I had an idea. Why not thank the various people that have contributed to this project...

Start = Surface agitation w/o air stone or circulation fan
0:32 = Pennywort from Burr740, Pogo Kimberly and Mermaid Weed from GreggZ
0:43 = Ludwigia palustris "Super Red" from Burr740
0:49 = Anubias nana petite from Phil Edwards
1:00 = Blyxa japonica from Doogy262 (3 small plants seem to have finally adjusted to my water and are starting to grow nicely)
1:15 = Bacopa sp. 'colorata' from Burr740 (this plant was just not happy for the longest time. Now it seems VERY happy with what I am doing)
1:20 = Rotala Ramosior Florida - this is a new plant that I picked up at a local swap
1:40 = Green Downoi, Hygro Compact & Barclaya Red from Burr740 (they all seem to be doing just fine.)
1:50 = Cardinal Flower (Lobelia Cardinalis ) from Burr740 (this plant definitely likes my water)
2:00 = L. Atlantis, L. Rubin & L. Butterfly from Burr740 (The L. Butterfly took awhile to adjust - doing better now)
2:04 = In the very back left corner is the Crinum I have had forever along with some dwarf Sag that I got from Doogy262
2:06 = Ambula and some D Diandra that I got from Maryland Guppy. (Really like the Ambula and it seems to really like my water)

Then I moved over to the wifes tank. Many of the above plants have filtered over to her tank as well. Some noteworthy additions;
2:30 = H sp Japan from Doogy262 and various stems of Hygro 53B from Burr740.

Thank-you all - this tank would still be full of sword plants and crypts and java fern without your help!


----------



## Immortal1

As the new thread title implies - overgrown mess!!! 
On the up side, something must finally be right with the ferts / co2 / lighting as almost everything is growing faster and basically healthier than it ever has. 
Last Saturday I did a pretty decent trim - figured it would be good for maybe 2 weeks. Apparently not! Most noticeably, the dwarf rotala is just going crazy. The Pogo Kimberly had to of grown 2 inches this week as I know it was atleast a few inches from the surface last Saturday. The Ambula, which originally struggled when I received it is now growing atleast 2" per week, maybe 3. The Myriophyllum Mattogrossense on the far right almost seems out of control - I hack the crap out of it and a week later it looks overgrown. Oh well - quit complaining 

Should have an "after" pic later this weekend


----------



## slipfinger

Immortal1 said:


> As the new thread title implies - overgrown mess!!!
> On the up side, something must finally be right with the ferts / co2 / lighting as almost everything is growing faster and basically healthier than it ever has.
> Last Saturday I did a pretty decent trim - figured it would be good for maybe 2 weeks. Apparently not! Most noticeably, the dwarf rotala is just going crazy. The Pogo Kimberly had to of grown 2 inches this week as I know it was atleast a few inches from the surface last Saturday. The Ambula, which originally struggled when I received it is now growing atleast 2" per week, maybe 3. The Myriophyllum Mattogrossense on the far right almost seems out of control - I hack the crap out of it and a week later it looks overgrown. Oh well - quit complaining
> 
> Should have an "after" pic later this weekend


First world issues.... lol

We're a funny bunch. We complain about plants not growing, then in the next breath we complain about plants growing too much! 

I could probably read back in the journal and figure out what you have change to cause the growth. What do you think is the main factor to the sudden surge in growth?


----------



## Immortal1

LOL @slipfinger - bitch bitch bitch. Do I ever stop complaining?
Sorry, gotta laugh after a long day of work. 
Honestly, I "think" I know what is going on. Roughly 3 weeks ago I adjusted the lights to a slightly higher level. Then lately I have been trying to dose the Micros around noon time as opposed to 6:00am. 
FYI, the morning Ph is around 7.4 to 7.5 and by noon it's less than 6.8 My guess is the DTPA FE may actually be more available to the plants when dosed closer to the actual lighting period. 

Assuming I am right about the micros, after a couple of weeks of "proper" dosing it seems like the plants just finally sync'd with the ferts / lights / co2. The Macro dosing has not changed much lately. The CO2 levels have not changed any in many months. And I am guessing the tap water has not changed any so I can only guess the additional growth is due to lighting or micros.

Edit, another observation that may warrant further investigation - I have a 20g low tech, and (2) 5g low tech tanks each with plants. When I de-gas the tap water the ph gets pretty close to 7.8 or 7.9. Now I am curious if the higher ph in the low tech tanks is giving me some problems with the FE micros? The plants in the low tech tanks do grow, but generally look less than stellar even for a low tech tank. Something worth looking into. From what I can tell by the chart below, it looks like I should have atleast 60% of the chelation available even at a ph of 7.9.


----------



## Greggz

Immortal1 said:


> LOL @slipfinger - bitch bitch bitch. Do I ever stop complaining?
> Sorry, gotta laugh after a long day of work.
> Honestly, I "think" I know what is going on. Roughly 3 weeks ago I adjusted the lights to a slightly higher level. Then lately I have been trying to dose the Micros around noon time as opposed to 6:00am.
> FYI, the morning Ph is around 7.4 to 7.5 and by noon it's less than 6.8 My guess is the DTPA FE may actually be more available to the plants when dosed closer to the actual lighting period.


My guess is that the time of dosing has little or nothing do with it.

More likely, the lights. Light is the primary driver of growth.

More PAR = more growth = more need for dosing.

Some tanks here are turbo charged, mine being one of them. Whether that is good or not, I am not completely sure of.

But in general, faster growth usually means you are on the right track.


----------



## Immortal1

The overgrown mess has been trimmed 

What I should do this week is take one FTS each day for 7 days. Would probably give me a much better idea how fast various plants are actually growing. 
I will have to admit, I cut out about 1 gallon of plant scrap. Also pulled 6 Hygro compact, 3 small Pogo kimberly, probably 12 Bacoppa carolinina side shoots, and likely 20 dwarf rotala tops which will be given away at next weekends local fish club meet.


















































Question to anyone who might know - the Limnophila rugosa (Butterfly), to one degree or another, always seems to have curled leaves. In the second to last pic above it is more noticeable on the older leaves but the newer leaves still have a bit of a curl. Any thoughts / suggestions?


----------



## Greggz

Funny we must be on the same wavelength. I also mowed down my tank this morning, removing loads of mass. It's got to be done every so often.

Still looks pretty thick with plants, so it must have really been something before you got started.


----------



## Immortal1

Greggz said:


> Funny we must be on the same wavelength. I also mowed down my tank this morning, removing loads of mass. It's got to be done every so often.
> 
> Still looks pretty thick with plants, so it must have really been something before you got started.



Yes, it was pretty thick! Sometimes just blows my mind how much plant mass I can cut out every weekend - easily a 1 gallon ice creme pail from the 2 tanks. Then every so often, I have to do what I did today - be ruthless >


----------



## Immortal1

Ok, so I was "intending" on taking a picture each nite when I got home. So much for intentions. But, I did get a picture tonite which the pics below show growth. Hopefully I can add a 3rd pic on Sunday morning...

Big trim 12/1/2008









Current pic 12/6/2018









Clearly I did not care to play with the camera settings on the 2nd pic, lol


----------



## slipfinger

Damn, tank looks almost the exact same after 10 years.


----------



## nodim

slipfinger said:


> Damn, tank looks almost the exact same after 10 years.


Whoa, I missed that at first glance. That is really impressive consistency.


----------



## slipfinger

nodim said:


> Whoa, I missed that at first glance. That is really impressive consistency.


Ya that is some serious dedication to keep the same plants in the exact same spot for 10 years.... :grin2:


----------



## Greggz

slipfinger said:


> Ya that is some serious dedication to keep the same plants in the exact same spot for 10 years.... :grin2:


Not to mention those are some long lived fish too!:grin2:


----------



## CMcNam

Wow. That is some impressive dedication. When you first look at it and think "so? It looks the same after ten years" but then you think about how difficult it is to maintain a tank, much less keep it algae-free, happy fish, and not moving plants, I have to admire your self control. That is something I wish I had!


----------



## MCFC

CMcNam said:


> Wow. That is some impressive dedication. When you first look at it and think "so? It looks the same after ten years" but then you think about how difficult it is to maintain a tank, much less keep it algae-free, happy fish, and not moving plants, I have to admire your self control. That is something I wish I had!


It was a typo  

First pic was taken in 2018 too.
@slipfinger is just a funny guy (but looks aren't everything :grin2


----------



## Immortal1

LOL, you guys crack me up! Guess thats what I get trying to make a post after having a beverage

And yes Gregg, those bows are getting REALLY old now 

Funny to imagine my third picture for that post will be 12/9/2028


----------



## Immortal1

Did not get as many pictures this weekend as I had hoped. Did accomplish a good thing thou...
Local fish club had a Christmas party today which included an ugly sweater contest. Anyway, many people brought something to sell. Me - (2) one gallon ziplock bags full of various plants from last weekend and this morning - given away for free. 

So, sitting here watching the Bears and thought "damn, tank is looking good again". Think the one plant I am most impressed with is the L. Aromatica Mini. For the longest time it kinda just was there - not really growing or showing much color. Now it is starting to look like what I see in everybody else's tank. 

View from the couch...


----------



## Greggz

Looking good Linn.

I like the "couch" shot. Adds a different perspective, seeing it as you normally see it.

The limno mini does look good................and a LOT of other things too!

Tank gets better and better all the time.


----------



## Immortal1

Thanks Gregg. Really wish the phone camera could present what I actually see - the limno mini actually has a nice purple hue to the underside of the leaves but it just does not show up well.
I really do like having the plants a bit shorter. Also reduced the number of stems in several groups which as you know give a little more elbow room 
Was a bit worried about the Butterfly (Limnophila rugosa) looking like crap but after I pulled all of it, trimmed off and re-planted several of the nicer side shoots it looks better than ever. I think I actually gave away more nice portions of that plant than I actually saved - oh well. 

Lets see if I can get one more nice pic.... Can't say I have ever noticed this much color in the Pogo Kimberly


----------



## Grobbins48

Looking really good! The purple undersides are great, and I agree hard to capture in photo.


----------



## CMcNam

MCFC said:


> It was a typo
> 
> First pic was taken in 2018 too.
> 
> @slipfinger is just a funny guy (but looks aren't everything :grin2





Immortal1 said:


> LOL, you guys crack me up! Guess thats what I get trying to make a post after having a beverage
> 
> And yes Gregg, those bows are getting REALLY old now
> 
> Funny to imagine my third picture for that post will be 12/9/2028


D'oh! I never was good at reading.


----------



## kaldurak

The colors in your tank are fantastic! Very nice to look at.


----------



## Immortal1

Time for another hack job - back in about 2 hours 

7 days ago.









Last nite, as lights were starting to dim down.









Post hack - much better looking in my opinion









Will try doing a video later today - cant let @Greggz have all the fun


----------



## Immortal1

Post trim pic add to above post


----------



## Greggz

Yeah looks great post trim. 

Sometimes a tank just needs to be tamed! I bet plants will like it too.

I've also been trending toward the "less is more" theory. The hard part is learning how to give up species.......collectoritis is difficult to treat.:wink2:


----------



## Grobbins48

Looking really good! Sometimes it is fun to let it get a little wild and overgrown, but then feels so good when you go a large trim. Keeps the tank dynamic. 

Nice work on this last trim! And ready for a video-- seems Gregg has motivated many of us to lean into film these past couple weeks! Can't wait!


----------



## Immortal1

Greggz said:


> Yeah looks great post trim.
> 
> Sometimes a tank just needs to be tamed! I bet plants will like it too.
> 
> I've also been trending toward the "less is more" theory. The hard part is learning how to give up species.......collectoritis is difficult to treat.:wink2:


Thanks Gregg! Yes, the plants do seem happier when given some breathing room. Speaking of "less is more" - I promised myself to try and keep certian groups to a minimum. As for the Bacopa Carolinina - I gave away a bunch of side shoots and a couple of full stems last weekend. And today I end up with whats below - left side going back into the tank, right side... 

If I remember correctly, I believe I received a few side shoots of Bacopa from you - so all this trimming is your fault :grin2:


----------



## burr740

Trim time!

You've done a really good job putting contrasting colors in front and behind each other. Almost every single species stands out on its own. Nothing "disappears" from having a similar color behind it. 

Even with this many species it still passes the squint test. That's no small feat.

It probably goes unnoticed but I bet you've put a great deal of thought into plant placement. If not then you have very good instincts!


----------



## Immortal1

burr740 said:


> Trim time!
> 
> You've done a really good job putting contrasting colors in front and behind each other. Almost every single species stands out on its own. Nothing "disappears" from having a similar color behind it.
> 
> Even with this many species it still passes the squint test. That's no small feat.
> 
> It probably goes unnoticed but I bet you've put a great deal of thought into plant placement. If not then you have very good instincts!



Thank-you very much Joe! I will admit, I have been trying to figure out ways to get each group to stand out a bit more. Thinking about your rule of 1/3rd's (mentioned on Greggs thread), I feel that the right 1/3 of the tank is looking very good - different shades of green divided by the dark red and yellow mermaid weed - each with a very different leaf texture.


In the middle 1/3 I think the L. aromatica needs to be a smaller grouping but I do like that it slopes up front to back. Now that the Bacopa colorata is growing nicely I have a nice pinkish divide between the green Bacopa in the back and the P. helferi up front.


That leaves the left hand 1/3. Really like the Ambula as a plant. Just don't think the laft 1/3 is as nicely balanced as the right 1/3rd seems to be.


Thoughts?

The Ludwigia inclinata 'curly tornado' you have for sale is a texture I don't have - might be an option?
The Hygrophila araguaia would make a nice contrasting foreground color as well - might be a good replacement for the Bylaxa I have in the front right 1/3


----------



## burr740

I think the left third just needs more rugosa so that group is bigger and thicker.

Once you have everything where its going to be, basically, the rest is just a matter of controlling group sizes and heights


----------



## Immortal1

burr740 said:


> I think the left third just needs more rugosa so that group is bigger and thicker.
> 
> Once you're have everything where its going to be, basically, the rest is just a matter of controlling group sizes and heights



Thank-you again Joe - the Rugosa seems to be pretty happy now so growing more of it should not be a problem.


----------



## Immortal1

As promised earlier


----------



## Greggz

Nice job Linn!

Good to see the tank with movement.

Looks like a trend is starting!


----------



## ChrisX

Huge sae


----------



## Immortal1

ChrisX said:


> Huge sae


Yeah, of the 2 that I have, one of the is around 6" long an FAT. The other one is shorter and thinner.


----------



## ChrisX

Immortal1 said:


> Yeah, of the 2 that I have, one of the is around 6" long an FAT. The other one is shorter and thinner.


My two seemed to have stopped growing at 4"


----------



## Grobbins48

Immortal1 said:


> Yeah, of the 2 that I have, one of the is around 6" long an FAT. The other one is shorter and thinner.


Are they still eating algae at that size, or more focused on eating fish food? Just curious on your experience with them!


----------



## Immortal1

Grobbins48 said:


> Are they still eating algae at that size, or more focused on eating fish food? Just curious on your experience with them!


 Hard to say I guess. If they were to live only on the algae in the tank they would likely starve. I do see them nibble on various leaves but I can't say I see much difference. 

The Oto's I have in the wifes 40g tank do seem to make a noticeable difference.


----------



## Grobbins48

Immortal1 said:


> Hard to say I guess. If they were to live only on the algae in the tank they would likely starve. I do see them nibble on various leaves but I can't say I see much difference.
> 
> The Oto's I have in the wifes 40g tank do seem to make a noticeable difference.


Oto's are one of my absolute favorite- and not just for their algae eating, but because they have great social behaviors when kept with 6+ of them! 

Thanks for the info!


----------



## Immortal1

Interesting pic from this morning before I start water change process. Don't usually have the curtains open in the morning but for some reason today it just seemed nice to let in a little sun. As I sat on the couch admiring the view my curiosity got the better of me - just how bright is that light shining on the tank? Just after taking the pic I looked at my Seneye reading - 893 PAR, 3677 Kelvin, 63% PUR :surprise:


----------



## ChrisX

Your rainbows look happy in the sun.


----------



## Immortal1

ChrisX said:


> Your rainbows look happy in the sun.


 They sure didn't seem to hate it  Pretty amazing how much prism effect they have with that much light on them.
The other interesting thing I noted - does not seem to matter how "clean" you think your glass is. In full morning sun it shows every spot you missed!


----------



## chayos00

I read a review on a SenseEye someone on TPT posted and in their yard with clear skies mid day it was like 1800 PAR. Now just imagine the algae we'd have in our tanks either lighting that strong! LOL

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Immortal1

chayos00 said:


> I read a review on a SenseEye someone on TPT posted and in their yard with clear skies mid day it was like 1800 PAR. Now just imagine the algae we'd have in our tanks either lighting that strong! LOL
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


That may have been me that posted that. Below is a screen shot I made this past summer. I was shocked at how bright the sun was given how far North of the equator I am (Iowa). The other interesting thing was how low the Kelvin rating was - 3,860K. I realize in nature, most lakes are a lot deeper than say 18", but yeah - I think that level of PAR in our tanks would be a disaster. The other thing I was curious about - how many on here have read a post about so and so having a planted tank in the window with no heater and no light. And the tank does not look too bad. How does that work???


----------



## chayos00

Immortal1 said:


> That may have been me that posted that. Below is a screen shot I made this past summer. I was shocked at how bright the sun was given how far North of the equator I am (Iowa). The other interesting thing was how low the Kelvin rating was - 3,860K. I realize in nature, most lakes are a lot deeper than say 18", but yeah - I think that level of PAR in our tanks would be a disaster. The other thing I was curious about - how many on here have read a post about so and so having a planted tank in the window with no heater and no light. And the tank does not look too bad. How does that work???


Hahaha yup that was you then, I saw it just the other day and recall that picture with a PC screenshot having someone in the backyard. 

That review has me debating my next tank purchase, a UV filter was the first thing, now I question a PAR meter and that unit is the best price of them all. Plus it gives a Kelvin rating of the lights. 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Immortal1

Given the variety of tanks I have, the PAR meter has been quite helpful. On my 20g low tech tank I now have the 24" Current Satellite Plus Pro light. Obviously WAY too much power for the tank, but, with the Seneye I was able to create a good PUR curve and keep the substrate PAR at around 35. I bought a Fluval Nano 3.0 light for the 5g Betta tank. Again, at full power too much light. But now its sitting nicely at 30 PAR and 64% PUR with a very nice curve.


----------



## ipkiss

That's it! I'm fed up with our sad attempts of lighting. Im going to set up a solar tube!


----------



## chayos00

ipkiss said:


> That's it! I'm fed up with our sad attempts of lighting. Im going to set up a solar tube!


My wife won't buy into getting one of these for my den that's so dark and needs lots of lights, just so happens to be where my tank is too. LOL Win win?? 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Immortal1

ipkiss said:


> That's it! I'm fed up with our sad attempts of lighting. Im going to set up a solar tube!



Curious, can you get an inline dimmer for that? :laugh2:


----------



## ipkiss

Immortal1 said:


> Curious, can you get an inline dimmer for that? :laugh2:


U and I may kid but it really exists! 

http://shop.solatube.com/solatube-daylight-dimmer-add-on-kit-comes-with-daylight-dimmer-wall-switch/


----------



## Immortal1

I guess it's time for some updates. Will start off by saying this past week was a bit sad - lost 2 of my oldest rainbow fish. These guys joined the tank back on May 2, 2015. One female developed what looked like a swim bladder issue. After consulting our resident expert I gave it a bit of time in the hospital tank. A things got progressively worse we made the difficult decision. Then the very next morning one of the original males jumped out of the 75g. Only the 2nd time any fish has jumped out of the tank since the beginning. 

Not a huge fan of dirty glass lids with a plastic hinge in the middle so I decided I would make something a bit different. First things first - I grabbed some scrap glass and did some test fitting. With the success of that last nite it was on to full scale today. Below are the results.


----------



## burr740

Wow. What sort of wizardry did you use to cut the glass like that?


----------



## Grobbins48

Sorry to hear of the losses, always tough.

I really like what you did with the glass. How hard was it to fab up? Looks like it should be effective and not cut down on PAR too much. You have a Seneye, right? Have you though of seeing the effect on the PAR in those corners?


----------



## Ken Keating1

Wow, nice glass work. How did you do it? 

Nice touch with the Greggz signature logo etched into the top! >


----------



## TheUnseenHand

Did you cut the glass with a rotary tool? Make sure you file the edges. I've made that mistake before, forgetting to soften the edges after cutting that way.


----------



## Immortal1

burr740 said:


> Wow. What sort of wizardry did you use to cut the glass like that?


Well, mostly diamonds :grin2:

And thank-you all for the comments! Been a while since I got to play with the glass toys.

Toyo glass cutter for the basic straight lines and long curves. Then it was onto the 1/4" diamond embedded hole saw for the tight corners (one of these https://www.menards.com/main/tools-...eg-diamond-hole-saw/hdg14/p-1450445993235.htm )


Then I grabbed the dremel with the flexible wand and used a couple of these - specifically the 9th from the left for cutting and the 10th from the left for sanding. The ball bits work great for simple engraving such as drawing out names.


----------



## Greggz

Ken Keating1 said:


> Nice touch with the Greggz signature logo etched into the top! >


+1.

LOL good one Linn!!!:grin2::grin2:


----------



## Immortal1

Grobbins48 said:


> Sorry to hear of the losses, always tough.
> 
> I really like what you did with the glass. How hard was it to fab up? Looks like it should be effective and not cut down on PAR too much. You have a Seneye, right? Have you though of seeing the effect on the PAR in those corners?


Yep, and thank-you.
I am guessing the Seneye won't even notice the glass. Kinda hard to tell in the pics but if I am correct the angle of the light from to source into the tank should not be effected much. The front middle plants might see some reduction in light. And, more importantly, if I keep the rest of the stems at a more normal length they should be just fine. Right now about 2/3rd of the rotala in the back left corner is at the surface. This afternoon should solve that problem >


----------



## Immortal1

Guess it's time for a small update. Really not too much has changed. Re-arranged a few groups but nothing drastic. 
Starting a little different macro dosing - will see if it makes a noticeable difference. N/P/K weekly totals will be 20/5/20 with a little more than half being dosed right after water change Sunday.
Perhaps the biggest change will be adding 1 dose of 5ppm MGSO4 after water change. Calcium in tap is 70ppm with a GH of 14. That generates an estimated MG level of 18.3ppm. 
Of course these changes will only be in the 75g tank. No changes planed for the other tanks so I guess that can be considered a bit of a "control" 

Anyway, onto some pics. Might as well throw a bit of love out to the other tanks as well.

























And of course my little side experiment. No heater or fancy light - Just the adjacent table light on for around 10 hours per day and 1 pump of Thrive-C per week.


----------



## CMcNam

Looks great! What is that reddish rainbowfish on the left side of the first picture? It's funny how much the size of the fish impacts the whole perspective. If you hadn't mentioned the size of the tank and if I didn't know the size of those fish, I'd have said that tank looks smaller than my 48 gallon!

I also like the ThriveC "experiment." Just started dosing it in mine too, so it'll be neat to compare...well...as much as can be compared between two tanks that are different sizes, lighting, heating, water, with different plants, and on opposite ends of the planet.

You know what? Nevermind. Maybe not a good idea to compare them


----------



## Immortal1

CMcNam said:


> Looks great! What is that reddish rainbowfish on the left side of the first picture? It's funny how much the size of the fish impacts the whole perspective. If you hadn't mentioned the size of the tank and if I didn't know the size of those fish, I'd have said that tank looks smaller than my 48 gallon!
> 
> I also like the ThriveC "experiment." Just started dosing it in mine too, so it'll be neat to compare...well...as much as can be compared between two tanks that are different sizes, lighting, heating, water, with different plants, and on opposite ends of the planet.
> 
> You know what? Nevermind. Maybe not a good idea to compare them



Thank-you. Reddish fish is a New Guinea Red Rainbow (Glossolepis incisus) male. He's about 3" long.
For what its worth, the 3rd pic is my 20g low tech tank that pretty much started out as a dumping ground for excess plants. Generic aquarium gravel and a HOB filter. Dosing 4 pumps Thrive C twice a week in this tank. Guess the comparison would be to see if Thrive C and help grow plants regardless what part of the world they exist in :grin2:


----------



## Greggz

Immortal1 said:


> Thank-you. Reddish fish is a New Guinea Red Rainbow (Glossolepis incisus) male. He's about 3" long.


Linn I am sure you are probably aware, but that Incisus has a long way to go. 

Probably the largest Glossolepis. Will get almost round eventually, and will get over 5". A really large species at full size. But takes years.

Interesting on the fert update, looking forward to seeing where it goes.

And that small tank with table light is pretty cool. Probably things to be learned there.


----------



## Immortal1

Well, other than cutting fancy tops for the 75g tank I actually have been working on whats "inside" the tank 
In an effort to see if I can improve a few things within the tank I have made some minor changes. One thing I was hoping to improve was plant color on some of the plants. The Bacopa sp. 'colorata' currently does have a bit of a pink tone to it but not nearly as vivid as some I have seen. When the Rotala rotundifolia gets real close to the surface, the color does change - not a lot but noticeable. The Mermaid Weed currently has a nice yellow tone - trying to see if it will get a bit more of an orange tone. So, thought I would make a few adjustments to the lights and see where it leads. 

















On the fert side, specifically the Macros, I am now weighing the ferts and dosing as follows;
KNO3 - [email protected] after water change Sunday, 5ppm Tuesday, 5ppm Thursday - Weekly total of 25ppm
KH2PO4 - [email protected] after water change, 1ppm Tuesday, 1ppm Thursday - Weekly total of 5ppm
This gives me a weekly total of K of 19.87ppm (call it 20ppm)

Micros will be pretty much the same - 5 doses of 0.15ppm FE (roughly Burr mix)

Now for the more visually interesting stuff. I've made some layout changes on both sides of the tank. On the right side I pulled out all the Mermaid weed and added Dwarf sag to some of that area. The Ludwigia palustris "Super Red" has been re-arranged a bunch of times - maybe this time it will stay put. The overly prolific Myriophyllum Mattogrossense up front is now about 1/4 as much as it used to be. On the left side of the tank I pulled out another Hygro compact and moved the Rogosa forward and gave it some elbow room. The Mermaid Weed then filled in a nice gap between the Bacopa and the Dwarf Rotala. Hopefully in a week we will see if this arrangement is any more visually appealing :grin2:


























And I suppose I should add a few pics of the "other" tank inhabitants :grin2:


----------



## Grobbins48

Looking really good and awesome FTS. What is that bow that is orangeish on the back side, but fades unevenly into the blueish color? That is a beautiful fish!

Edit: this one


----------



## Immortal1

Grobbins48 said:


> Looking really good and awesome FTS. What is that bow that is orangeish on the back side, but fades unevenly into the blueish color? That is a beautiful fish!
> 
> Edit: this one



Thanks for the compliments. Not 100% sure on that one though. Originally I thought it was a Marci Rainbow fish which is a hybred fish. But, the more I look the more I think it may be a Parkinson Rainbow fish.
Melanotaenia parkinsoni


----------



## Grobbins48

Immortal1 said:


> Thanks for the compliments. Not 100% sure on that one though. Originally I thought it was a Marci Rainbow fish which is a hybred fish. But, the more I look the more I think it may be a Parkinson Rainbow fish.
> Melanotaenia parkinsoni


When I first started my tank I was set on keeping the two species (boewemani and turquoise). I remember watching a video on YouTube where Gary Lang mentioned something about a large school of a single or two species would be an amazing tank. 

While he is not wrong, and I really love my two species rainbow tank, I am beginning to better understand keeping a couple of each of many different species! There are just so many beautiful fish out there! 

I need to keep my eye out for something like that fish you have!


----------



## Omar EAZi

been looking at the entire journal, as Burr said on first page, this is some real dedication right here!! after seeing all these black backgrounds I'm thinking to get myself a black background as well. btw what did you use for your background?! is it paint or is it like a sticker or something?!


----------



## Immortal1

Omar EAZi said:


> been looking at the entire journal, as Burr said on first page, this is some real dedication right here!! after seeing all these black backgrounds I'm thinking to get myself a black background as well. btw what did you use for your background?! is it paint or is it like a sticker or something?!



Thank-you Omar for the compliments. Dedication... Insanity... I'm sure it's one of those :grin2:
As for the tank background - I would strongly suggest NOT to do as I have, lol. Originally I had some black fabric wrapped around cardboard on the back of the tank. This lasted for a couple of years but as you might guess, the glass got dirty and really could not be cleaned. I pulled out the cardboard and inserted a piece of black coroplast (plastic cardboard). It's better, but not really great. My biggest problem since setting up this tank is, well, it is set up and very NOT movable. 

If I had known then... I would have applied something to the back of the tank. My current thought would be a sticker. A good friend of mine does vinyl graphics and said it would be very easy to apply a perfect black vinyl background on the tank. All I have to do is empty it. Thats where I pretty much gave up.


----------



## chayos00

Omar EAZi said:


> been looking at the entire journal, as Burr said on first page, this is some real dedication right here!! after seeing all these black backgrounds I'm thinking to get myself a black background as well. btw what did you use for your background?! is it paint or is it like a sticker or something?!


I used black latex paint from the local hardware store, the cheap hobby paint I initially used wasn't the best choice IMO as when it got a tiny bit wet it just peeled off the glass.


----------



## AquaAurora

Immortal1 said:


> And of course my little side experiment. No heater or fancy light - Just the adjacent table light on for around 10 hours per day and 1 pump of Thrive-C per week.


 Is that an eheim aquastyle?


I made the mistake of not buying one a few years ago now they're no longer made/for sale. >.<


----------



## Immortal1

@AquaAurora - actually no, not an Eheim product. It is a discontinued AquaTOP 5g cube - don't remember the actual model. All the extra pieces that came with the tank have all been tossed - only kept the tank.


----------



## Immortal1

Great, local swap is gonna have a bunch of plants tomorrow... Looks like I will probably have some Ludwigia Arcuata to add to my collectoritis disease


----------



## AquaAurora

Immortal1 said:


> @*AquaAurora* - actually no, not an Eheim product. It is a discontinued AquaTOP 5g cube - don't remember the actual model. All the extra pieces that came with the tank have all been tossed - only kept the tank.


 I ended up buying one-the nano-ponics 5g . Why not with it being so cheap? Going to dirt tank and put it by a window, see what I can get to grow.
I don't know how the tank survived shipping (they don't pad ANYTHING inside the tank including a heavy rock, terracotta pot (broken on arrival), gravel, and loose filter parts) but it passed a quick leak test-filled on counter for 3 hours.


----------



## Immortal1

Haven't posted in a bit - thought I would add some of the more interesting pictures from the last several days. 
First a little love for the wifes tank...









And a few pearling pics from mine...

































Have a feeling I will be trimming his back down before water change Sunday.


----------



## Greggz

Very nice set of pics Linn!

Love the pearling shots.

And I am thinking the "wife's tank" might need it's own journal. 

Just sayin'.......a lot going right there.


----------



## Immortal1

Greggz said:


> Very nice set of pics Linn!
> 
> Love the pearling shots.
> 
> And I am thinking the "wife's tank" might need it's own journal.
> 
> Just sayin'.......a lot going right there.



Thank-you Gregg. What I really should do is put "her" pic in her "journal". Guess I kinda forgot there was one. 

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/12-tank-journals/900985-new-tiger-tank-wife-lots-pics.html


----------



## Ken Keating1

Immortal1 said:


> Haven't posted in a bit - thought I would add some of the more interesting pictures from the last several days.
> First a little love for the wifes tank...


Nice looking tank! What's the plant center right, I like the looks of it.

Did you borrow @Grobbins48 's pH probe?>>


----------



## Immortal1

Ken Keating1 said:


> Nice looking tank! What's the plant center right, I like the looks of it.
> 
> Did you borrow @*Grobbins48* 's pH probe?>>


 Thank-you Ken! Plant is Pennywort, kinda have it wrapped around the wood feature in the middle of the tank. Nice plant, but seriously grows like a weed! Probably cut 20+ leaves off of it every weekend.
LOL, yep


----------



## Grobbins48

Ken Keating1 said:


> Did you borrow @Grobbins48 's pH probe?>>


I still dont understand why they had to make it bright blue and yellow...

Tanks are looking great though!!


----------



## Immortal1

A couple interesting pics from this past weekend. 

I am guessing this would still be considered a proper use for a Milwaukee ph controller?









A little story here - maybe 6 months ago (longer?) I was down to 1 Pogo Kimberly and it was not really happy. Likely was due to improper dosing at the time. I made a few changes, topped the stunted end and hoped for the best. Fast forward to today and this is what I have now. Not that I really detailed it, but if you look back thru various pictures you can kinda see the progression. 









Very happy it is doing well now - kinda one of my favorite plants in the tank.


----------



## Grobbins48

That is great to hear about the Pogo K. I have been growing it quite well in my tank, but struggle to propagate it. Looks like you figured out the trick- how did you go about getting the one stem into so many? Just top and leave the stem? How much did you leave?

I am with you in it is my favorite plant, and would really like much more of it!


----------



## Greggz

Linn that is a nice recovery with the Pogo K. 

I wonder what the change was that brought it back to life? Well, whatever it was, it sure looks happy now!

Now as to propagating, I've never had to help it. It just naturally throws new shoots on a pretty regular basis. One stem sometimes has 4 or 5 babies growing on it. 

How about you Linn? Did you have to do anything to get it to produce so many new plants?


----------



## Immortal1

Greggz said:


> Linn that is a nice recovery with the Pogo K.
> 
> I wonder what the change was that brought it back to life? Well, whatever it was, it sure looks happy now!
> 
> Now as to propagating, I've never had to help it. It just naturally throws new shoots on a pretty regular basis. One stem sometimes has 4 or 5 babies growing on it.
> 
> How about you Linn? Did you have to do anything to get it to produce so many new plants?



Pretty similar to what happened here. I topped the one stem (just enough to get rid of stunted stuff). Maybe one side shoot lower at the time. Once things got better, a couple more side shoots and the top split as well. Lot of nursing, pulling off and re-planting side shoots and eventually here I am.


Lot of Pogo K sadness in post 461of this thread.


----------



## Immortal1

Not much to report on my tank. Huge trim yesterday as more than half of the plants were at the surface or almost there. 
In the trimming process, I moved a couple groups and thinned out other groups. Color and texture wise, I am liking this a bit more. The Ambula on the right should have been trimmed but I simply ran out of time.


----------



## Immortal1

01-Crinum calamistratum (lfs, ROA Auatics)
02-Rotala rotundifolia (Dwarf Rotala) (PetSmart tissue culture)
03-Limnophila indica (Ambula) (Maryland Guppy)
04-Alternanthera reineckii purple (Maryland guppy)
05-Lobelia cardinalis (cardinal flower) (Burr740)
06-Limnophila rugosa (butterfly) (Burr740)
07-Proserpinaca palustris (Mermaid Weed) (GreggZ)
08-Bacopa caroliniana (OreoP)
09-Hygrophila Corymbosa Compacta (Burr740)
10-Limnophila aromatica mini (Burr740)
11-Barclaya longifolia red (Burr740)
12-Ludwigia arcuata (local fish swap)
13- Ludwigia sp atlantis (Burr740)
14- Ludwigia repens rubin (Bur740)
15-Bacopa sp colorata (Burr740)
16-Didiplis diandra (Maryland Guppy)
17-Pogostemon helferi (downoi) (Burr740)
18-Ludwigia palustris “super red” (Burr740)
19-Sagittaria subulate (Dwarf sag) (Doggy262)
20-Pogostemon sp Kimberly (GreggZ)
21-Anubias nana (Phil Edwards)
22-Centella asiatica (pennywort) (Burr740)
23-Myrophyllum mattogrossense (Tyler Volk)
24-Blyxa japonica (Doggy262)

Clearly it would seem I like getting plants from @burr740 - gonna have to have a talk with that guy about supporting my collectoritis habit >


----------



## Maryland Guppy

I'm glad some of those plants stuck to the wall and didn't slide down! :grin2:


----------



## Ken Keating1

Wow, if I would of guessed based on the previous photos and I would of thought maybe a dozen different plants. 24 is lot more that I thought. And I'm in the same boat, quite of few plants from Burr740, plus micros! And the difficult part he posts a new "For Sale" thread every couple of weeks and every time I think "Do not open that thread, Do not open that thread". My record for having the will power to not to open the thread is about two minutes!

Also, nice photo with the plant designations, very helpful.


----------



## Immortal1

Ken Keating1 said:


> Wow, if I would of guessed based on the previous photos and I would of thought maybe a dozen different plants. 24 is lot more that I thought. And I'm in the same boat, quite of few plants from Burr740, plus micros! And the difficult part he posts a new "For Sale" thread every couple of weeks and every time I think "Do not open that thread, Do not open that thread". My record for having the will power to not to open the thread is about two minutes!
> 
> Also, nice photo with the plant designations, very helpful.


LMAO - You are so correct! I think I bought 1 or more plants from Joe on like 6 consecutive posts!!!! About every other week the wife would tell me "you got another damn plant box".
Oh well, at least I have more than 1 tank to put them in (are you listening @Greggz ?)


----------



## burr740

Wow didint know I was such an enabler! lol

That's a good looking layout, best yet imo.


----------



## Greggz

burr740 said:


> Wow didint know I was such an enabler! lol
> 
> That's a good looking layout, best yet imo.


+1.

As you know, I have been following your progression for quite some time, and your tank has really evolved over the years.

And I agree, this is the best so far. Well done!

I always enjoy seeing the plants labeled, and wow I didn't know you had that many.

The L. Atlantis caught my eye. I need something in a shade of orange like that. 

Guess I will be calling 1-800-Burr740!!


----------



## Immortal1

Thank-you Joe and Gregg - really appreciate the compliments.

Lol, and yes Gregg you can give him a call. Or I could just send you some. I seriously have given away enough of that plant to fill a 20g tank. At least in my tank it generates side shoots like crazy which is helpful to those in need of plants. I have put it in the 20g low tech and the leaves stay much smaller and more lime green. In the 75g as you can guess - the closer to the lights it gets, the more orange the leaves turn.


----------



## Greggz

Good looking plant.....I'm in.

Let me know when you have enough to spare and we will work out the details.


----------



## Chlorophile

Immortal1 said:


> Thank-you Joe and Gregg - really appreciate the compliments.
> 
> Lol, and yes Gregg you can give him a call. Or I could just send you some. I seriously have given away enough of that plant to fill a 20g tank. At least in my tank it generates side shoots like crazy which is helpful to those in need of plants. I have put it in the 20g low tech and the leaves stay much smaller and more lime green. In the 75g as you can guess - the closer to the lights it gets, the more orange the leaves turn.


It looks a lot like ludwigia repens x arcuata I used to grow, although that would turn bronze/copper like nothing I've never seen before when it had good light.


----------



## Maryland Guppy

Greggz said:


> Good looking plant.....I'm in.
> 
> Let me know when you have enough to spare and we will work out the details.


Heck, I'm in for a sample. :crying:
I mean if your're tossing it or filling up a spare 20G.


----------



## Grobbins48

Looking really good! I also had no idea you had that many species in there! Very clean layout!


----------



## Ken Keating1

Maryland Guppy said:


> Heck, I'm in for a sample.
> I mean if your're tossing it or filling up a spare 20G.



Darn, MG beat me to it!!!

I don't have any orange color plants in my tank and if you're heading to the USPS Office, it's much more cost effective to take three packages as compared to two packages! Just saying.


----------



## Immortal1

Ken Keating1 said:


> Darn, MG beat me to it!!!
> 
> I don't have any orange color plants in my tank and if you're heading to the USPS Office, it's much more cost effective to take three packages as compared to two packages! Just saying.


LOL, give me 2 or 3 weeks to grow out some nice examples 
then I will have to get some destination points, lol


----------



## Ken Keating1

Immortal1 said:


> 12-Ludwigia arcuata (local fish swap)
> 13- Ludwigia sp atlantis (Burr740)


Are 12 and 13 labeled correctly? They look to be the same in the photo. If they are labeled correctly, in your opinion, is one more orange than the other?


----------



## Immortal1

12 is actually behind 13. It really does not show up in the color pic. With any luck in 2 weeks #12 will have grown more than #13. Really is a balancing act to get things to all look just right at the same time. Skinny green leaves - should be 3 stems back there.









Hoping it turns out like this


----------



## Ken Keating1

Thanks Linn, that make sense. And yes about the balancing act, it's much easier to plan down the road as opposed to trimming every other day.


----------



## Immortal1

I seem to remember many of you liked the FTS I posted last weekend. Well, things do seem to change in a hurry LOL. Here is a 6 day comparison - guess I will have to once again sharpen the scissors and give away some plant mass 
Also, @Greggz and @Ken Keating1 - I will take a close look at the plant you guys were interested in and let you know what I have available.


----------



## Immortal1

My apologies to @Maryland Guppy - you were the second one looking at the L. Atlantis. Really happy it was written here as some days my memory sucks. Should be back to the tank later today - will see what is available.


----------



## KatherineL

What a journey it's been since 2015. You've grown plenty as an aquascaper. Your plants look great.

What lights are you using now?


----------



## Immortal1

KatherineL said:


> What a journey it's been since 2015. You've grown plenty as an aquascaper. Your plants look great.
> 
> What lights are you using now?



Thank-you for the compliments! As for the lights, they are Ecotech Radion XR15FW lights - with the G4 lenses.


----------



## Maryland Guppy

Immortal1 said:


> My apologies to @Maryland Guppy - you were the second one looking at the L. Atlantis. Really happy it was written here as some days my memory sucks. Should be back to the tank later today - will see what is available.


Seems it traveled to South Carolina first, now it has made it to Washington D.C.
They have removed the projected delivery date from tracking now.
:grin2::grin2::grin2:
With the mess I am recovering from an extra couple days will not hurt.


----------



## Greggz

Maryland Guppy said:


> Seems it traveled to South Carolina first, now it has made it to Washington D.C.
> They have removed the projected delivery date from tracking now.
> :grin2::grin2::grin2:
> With the mess I am recovering from an extra couple days will not hurt.


That's funny.....mine went from Iowa to Pittsburgh.....took a U turn and now is heading back to Michigan:grin2:.


----------



## Immortal1

I swear, I did not request 6 day shipping! Still trying to figure out "why" packages go where they do.
At this rate, Ken's will make it to California first and I shipped his on Monday.


----------



## Ken Keating1

Mine's scheduled to arrive tomorrow. There's no tracking history for today so no telling where it is! 

If I receive two extra packages, don't worry, I'll post photos of the plants in my tank!:grin2::grin2:


----------



## chayos00

I once had a package come from Cali, to AZ, then up to Seattle, and then back down to me again in Arizona. It's like they thought I lived back in Washington state again, even though that was almost 20 years ago!


----------



## ChrisX

Immortal1 said:


>


Your Ambulia in the front left corner does the same thing mine does. Top is bright and vibrant, lower leaves turn dark and get algae depending on time and/or conditions. Is this normal? I've been using the Ambulia as a metric for my tank's success.


----------



## Immortal1

@ChrisX - is it normal? Don't really know. I do have this plant in my 20g low tech and the darker bottoms are more pronounced, sometimes with some algae. My intentions are to keep it shorter, say like 4" tall or less. Problem is it grows like a weed so it really only looks good the day or 2 after a good trimming (I toss the bottoms and re-plant the tops).


----------



## Immortal1

Ken Keating1 said:


> Mine's scheduled to arrive tomorrow. There's no tracking history for today so no telling where it is!
> 
> If I receive two extra packages, don't worry, I'll post photos of the plants in my tank!:grin2::grin2:



Well, looks like all of you got a package today :grin2: 
@Ken Keating1 arrived at 12:01pm - and his was the LAST to leave  
@Maryland Guppy arrived at 2:04pm - really not sure on these times as MG is 3 hours ahead of Ken 
@Greggz arrived at 3:00pm - and his was technically the first one sent on Saturday - weird


Hope everybodys arrived intact and healthy enough to make it thru the nite. Guess I will have to hit you 3 back up again in a month to see who's all survived.


----------



## Greggz

ChrisX said:


> Your Ambulia in the front left corner does the same thing mine does. Top is bright and vibrant, lower leaves turn dark and get algae depending on time and/or conditions. Is this normal? I've been using the Ambulia as a metric for my tank's success.


It should be lime green and look the same throughout the plant. Not as to what it is missing? I'm not sure. In general, doesn't seem to be very picky as far as dosing goes, as long as good light, CO2, and clean conditions. 

Here's mine from just a minute ago. Second pic is the lower half.


















Bump:


Immortal1 said:


> Well, looks like all of you got a package today :grin2:
> @Ken Keating1 arrived at 12:01pm - and his was the LAST to leave
> @Maryland Guppy arrived at 2:04pm - really not sure on these times as MG is 3 hours ahead of Ken
> @Greggz arrived at 3:00pm - and his was technically the first one sent on Saturday - weird
> 
> 
> Hope everybodys arrived intact and healthy enough to make it thru the nite. Guess I will have to hit you 3 back up again in a month to see who's all survived.


Thanks Linn I just put it in the tank. Doesn't look too worse for the wear. 

I'll follow up once it settles in.


----------



## ChrisX

Greggz said:


> It should be lime green and look the same throughout the plant. Not as to what it is missing? I'm not sure. In general, doesn't seem to be very picky as far as dosing goes, as long as good light, CO2, and clean conditions.


I had some stems tied to a piece of lava rock in the front corner. It looked good and grew for a couple weeks without issue. moved it to background and the bottoms are giving up.

Suggests perhaps a light penetration issue, or perhaps low CO2 circulation in back of tank? Is it possible the tight/fine leaves create an area that keeps water from flowing where it is needed?


----------



## Greggz

ChrisX said:


> I had some stems tied to a piece of lava rock in the front corner. It looked good and grew for a couple weeks without issue. moved it to background and the bottoms are giving up.
> 
> Suggests perhaps a light penetration issue, or perhaps low CO2 circulation in back of tank? Is it possible the tight/fine leaves create an area that keeps water from flowing where it is needed?


Chris it's tough to say. Mine is in the back of the tank, directly under the two strongest PAR T5 bulbs I have. So it does like a lot of light. 

Now is it possible that T5 penetrates better than LED? My guess is yes, as it doesn't cast shadows like LED, but heck I don't really know. 

As to flow, mine is not in a particularly high flow area, but does have a good constant wide gentle laminar flow. Now if it is really in a "dead" spot, I can see how detritus could get caught up in the tight/fine leaves. 

Wish I could be of more help, and will have to give it some more thought. Like I said, in general a plant that is not too picky.


----------



## Wobblebonk

Immortal1 said:


> 03-Limnophila indica (Ambula) (Maryland Guppy)


Pfft the evidence is mounting for my theory about @Maryland Guppy boobie trapping his plants just to drive @ChrisX insane.


----------



## Greggz

Wobblebonk said:


> Pfft the evidence is mounting for my theory about @Maryland Guppy boobie trapping his plants just to drive @ChrisX insane.


LOL..........and nope.........I got mine from MG too!


----------



## Immortal1

Wobblebonk said:


> Pfft the evidence is mounting for my theory about @*Maryland Guppy* boobie trapping his plants just to drive @*ChrisX* insane.



Well, so far the boobie trap has not sprung for me. Maybe I just inoculated them a little better? :grin2:


----------



## Maryland Guppy

I purchased that Ambulia @ LFS almost 5 years ago.
Bet I've sold @ least 250 stems of it, maybe more.
Some so long they get coiled in a 1 gallon bag and must go in the medium box.

I have had a few stems of it go south in my 75G tank.
50 PAR @sub with less ferts and lower CO2

Can't sell anything now unless you want "pearling grey algae" ???
Maybe the plants with grey algae will bring more $$$.
Let's see, new grey varieties available of @ least 65 species.>


----------



## Wobblebonk

See just more evidence he sprung the trap on himself! Though I was just in HOT and they had a bunch of ambulia where the tops were bright and the bottoms not so hot but I don't think their sale tank had co2 or anything... And they wanted 35$ per oebt because someone crossed them with red tigers which is a little crazy to me.

I'm kidding about the boobie traps but it's more fun to think of things that way.


----------



## Immortal1

@Maryland Guppy - given how fast my Ambulia grows, I believe you 100% on the 250+ stems sold. Have not let mine reach over 10" in the 75g tank, but in my 20g tank it regularly hits the surface - though not as robust.

Guessing you won't have the "pearling grey algae" versions for very long.


----------



## Maryland Guppy

Wobblebonk said:


> Though I was just in HOT and they had a bunch of ambulia where the tops were bright and the bottoms not so hot but I don't think their sale tank had co2 or anything...


HOT has no idea of how to properly care for all those fast moving plants in the store.:|
They send people home with a bottle of Flourish and claim it's all you will need.:frown2:

Any plants purchased there need to be grown out properly once home.
Same story for almost all LFS's.


----------



## Ken Keating1

Immortal1 said:


> Well, looks like all of you got a package today :grin2:
> @Ken Keating1 arrived at 12:01pm - and his was the LAST to leave
> @Maryland Guppy arrived at 2:04pm - really not sure on these times as MG is 3 hours ahead of Ken
> @Greggz arrived at 3:00pm - and his was technically the first one sent on Saturday - weird
> 
> Hope everybodys arrived intact and healthy enough to make it thru the nite. Guess I will have to hit you 3 back up again in a month to see who's all survived.


Thanks Linn for the plants, they're finally in the tank! All looks well. I'll post photos in a couple of days, after they grow 4 or 5 inches. :grin2::grin2:


----------



## burr740

Shipping is funny. I live in north AL. Packages get to Hawaii in two days without fail, but usually take three to somewhere in Georgia


----------



## Maryland Guppy

Immortal1 said:


> @Maryland Guppy - given how fast my Ambulia grows, I believe you 100% on the 250+ stems sold. Have not let mine reach over 10" in the 75g tank, but in my 20g tank it regularly hits the surface - though not as robust.
> 
> Guessing you won't have the "pearling grey algae" versions for very long.


Ironically 2 plugs of ambulia were in the back of the tank.
Saw lots of nice tops so I thought nothing of it.
Plug 1 had 4 primo stems and they still are, the other plug was disintegrating which may have been fowling the water helping provide the film on top.
The rotting plug did provide about 10 new sprigs, they are up front now so I can watch'em!

Thank you for shipment.
They are in tank now, all arrived well!


----------



## Immortal1

Been thinking about other small changes for my tank with regards to layout. Decided to try a few things yesterday - besides the typical heavy trimming I pulled the Bacopa Colorata from in front of the wood feature and switch places with the AR Purple. The Didiplis Diandra, Lobelia Cardinalis, and Limnophila aromatica 'mini' all played Chinese fire drill as well. I now have a better view of the hygro compact, and in my opinion a better arrangement of colors / textures along the front. The Pennywort has been hacked alot to better display the Anubia nana in the back right corner. Will give this arrangement some time and see what happens. 

I guess the real shocker for me is the AR - its still in there. This is one of those plants I could never grow the first couple of years. I won't say it's in perfect condition, but "it's not dead yet"









































Not exactly a Picta, but 

















My little workaholic


----------



## Immortal1

Well, this is a bit unexpected. At least 2 times per month, sometimes more I test the Ca and Gh of the tank water just to see if I need to add any more Mg. For the last year+ the Gh of my tank / tap has been somewhere between 11 and 14 with the highest recorded reading being 15.

As most of you will agree, you kinda get in a rhythm when adding the drops into the vial. Much to my surprise, the Gh changed color WAY sooner than it was supposed to. Bad API test kit - don't think so.
Hmmm, do a lot more testing. Turns out my TAP water is now running 7Gh - WTF?? Ah, after a bit of brain work I figured it out.....

I live on the Mississippi River and the water company gets it's water from the Mississippi. And here in Davenport, IA the river just crested from some pretty decent flooding. Now, where did all that extra water come from? Major snow melt up North of course. And the melting snow drains quickly across frozen ground into creeks and into the Mississippi. Curious, whats the Gh of melted snow? probably not very high. Mix enough gallons of low Gh snow into high Gh Mississippi water and you get 7gh - WoW. 

Kinda wish I could get 7Gh all the time. But for now I will just have to deal with it  

Wonder if I will need to add some MGSO4......

BUMP - Tap water used to measure 240-250ppm on the TDS meter. Now it measures 176ppm.
Tank CA is 50ppm, 10Gh, 13Mg which gives me a 3.82:1 Ca:Mg ratio. Not bad but was closer to 3:1


----------



## shamrock62081

Live south of you in STL and have been thinking about this with flooding up north being in the news. We will also get the Missouri and Illinois river snowmelt so I’m definitely going to be checking Ca and gH levels and expecting much lower gH. Good reminder of the seasonal changes.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Greggz

Interesting Linn.

Just goes to show you need to keep an eye on the source water.

Even here in Michigan on a well, my GH & KH changed often with the seasons. One of the reasons I went to RO water.

I'm sure that will be helpful and encourage others to test more often so they know what they are dealing with.


----------



## Grobbins48

Funny you tested this past weekend- I did the same with my GH, and was happy to see it remained constant (thought in Upstate New York the water supply does not vary much through the year).

Always good to understand the baseline of incoming water. Any adverse affected noted? The tank is looking great!


----------



## Immortal1

Grobbins48 said:


> Funny you tested this past weekend- I did the same with my GH, and was happy to see it remained constant (thought in Upstate New York the water supply does not vary much through the year).
> 
> Always good to understand the baseline of incoming water. Any adverse affected noted? The tank is looking great!


Thank-you regarding the tank. Realized I did not check the water the weekend before so I am likely into the 2nd week of low Ca / Mg (i.e. GH). Now granted, neither Ca or Mg are bottoming out but by being lower quantities how does / could that effect uptake of all the other macros & micros? Don't really know but, FWIW I have not noticed anything too different in the tank so I am guessing I will be ok. Will be interesting to see how long it takes to go back to normal? Sounds like mid April we will get even worse flooding so I suspect I may be dealing with soft water for several months.


----------



## chayos00

Totally see the water change with the season here in Arizona. We live off ground water that is fed from the CAP (Central Arizona Project) which brings in water from the Colorado river to filter through the ground back into the well water. But in the summer of 2018 I saw TDS around 450 and then it dropped down once things started to cool off and it ended up bottoming around 150TDS. Back to around 325-350TDS at the moment. Funny how seasons can really change the water chemistry!


----------



## Immortal1

chayos00 said:


> Totally see the water change with the season here in Arizona. We live off ground water that is fed from the CAP (Central Arizona Project) which brings in water from the Colorado river to filter through the ground back into the well water. But in the summer of 2018 I saw TDS around 450 and then it dropped down once things started to cool off and it ended up bottoming around 150TDS. Back to around 325-350TDS at the moment. Funny how seasons can really change the water chemistry!


Oh wow, that is a pretty big swing on TDS. With that said, I am guessing your calcium and magnesium levels bounce around a bunch :surprise:


----------



## Greggz

Hey Linn forgot to mention that's a really good picture of the Parkinsoni Rainbow.

Is that a Glossolepis Wanamensis I spied in there??

And are those Irians or Millenniums?


----------



## chayos00

Immortal1 said:


> Oh wow, that is a pretty big swing on TDS. With that said, I am guessing your calcium and magnesium levels bounce around a bunch :surprise:


I honestly am not 100% sure, as I've gotten a water softener at the end of summer for 2018. When I also got my RO water change system all setup too. So I'm now using remineralized RO water for the tank.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Immortal1

Greggz said:


> Hey Linn forgot to mention that's a really good picture of the Parkinsoni Rainbow.
> 
> Is that a Glossolepis Wanamensis I spied in there??
> 
> And are those Irians or Millenniums?



Sharp eye, I have 1 male Emerald Rainbow fish (Glossolepis Wanamensis).
As for the red rainbows, they are New Guinea Red Rainbow (Glossolepis incisus)

Bump:


chayos00 said:


> I honestly am not 100% sure, as I've gotten a water softener at the end of summer for 2018. When I also got my RO water change system all setup too. So I'm now using remineralized RO water for the tank.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



Ah, another RO users  That certainly does help with the highs and lows of tap water :grin2:


----------



## chayos00

Immortal1 said:


> Ah, another RO users  That certainly does help with the highs and lows of tap water :grin2:


Yeah, my Arizona GH of normally around 13dGH and having a soft water tank full of tetras was what drove my decision to go with RO water. 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Immortal1

@Greggz posted the following information at about the same time as I began paying a little more attention to the TDS levels of my tank. So I though I would do a little experimenting. NOTE: I am looking at the Daily EI Level Worksheet, *not* the Weekly EI Worksheet
This last week I dosed 17ppm KNO3 on Sunday along with 3.5ppm KH2PO4 and 6ppm K2SO4. On Wednesday I added an additional 1.5ppm of KH2PO4. So how did this all effect the daily TDS readings? (note, weekly readings were taken at about 5pm each day).

282ppm - Sunday after water change, before adding ferts.
313ppm - Sunday 1 hour after adding ferts.
313ppm - Monday (micros added at noon)
315ppm - Tuesday (micros added at noon)
317ppm - Wednesday (KH2PO4 added at 6:00am)
320ppm - Thursday (micros added at noon)
324ppm - Friday (nothing added)

Interesting how the above numbers would seem to align very closely with what Gregg showed below in the upper chart. 










Now, for a simple check to verify...
I did pretty much the same thing with my wifes 40g barb tank. Now, her tank also has a bunch of plants but the little barbs don't poop as much as my bows. So, what happens if I do 3 doses of macros and micros? Would it again align with what Gregg posted in the lower chart above?

289ppm - Sunday after water change, before adding ferts.
309ppm - Sunday 1 hour after adding ferts.
313ppm - Monday (micros added at noon)
316ppm - Tuesday (micros added at noon)
322ppm - Wednesday (KNO3 & KH2PO4 added at 6:00am)
325ppm - Thursday (micros added at noon)
330ppm - Friday (KNO3 & KH2PO4 added at 6:00am)

Both tanks increased the TDS levels throughout the week (expected?) by pretty similar amounts even though the Rainbow tank was front end loaded with macros and the Barb tank was dosed macros 3 times.

Thank-you Gregg for the chart data!


----------



## Immortal1

Should be an interesting next few weeks. Have been working on lowering my KNO3 dosing for the last few months (if I remember right) and this week my weekly dosed total was 17ppm NO3.
Next few weeks I will be running the following weekly totals;
NO3 = 14ppm
PO4 = 6ppm
K = 20ppm

Given how the tank looks at the moment, the above should work without experiencing the same issue Joe ran into a few weeks ago. (fingers crossed).
Also, maximum PAR of the lights is now down to 120.


----------



## Greggz

I like the spirit of experimentation.

Looking forward to seeing what if any changes you see.

Should be interesting.


----------



## Immortal1

Well, Phase 1 of my Spring experiment has begun. 
Small bit of background for those who don't know - typically around this time of year the Mississippi river floods due to snow melting / rains in Minnesota and Wisconsin. This year there was a lot more snow and it melted faster. So, there's a LOT of really clean water headed down the Mississippi river, right past the water treatment plant. Bad for many as we are now less than 2' away from the all time flood record of 23.6' (flood stage is 15'). 

Good for me... For the longest time my my tap water looked like this - GH=14+, KH=8+. CA=65+ and TDS around 275-300 ppm. Now with all the flood water, the tap is measuring GH=7, KH=5, CA=35 and TDS at 165ppm. Now my tank has not exactly dropped to the tap water levels yet, so...
Today I ended up doing back to back 50% water changes. The tank is now measuring GH=8, KH=6, CA=40 and after adding a weeks worth of macros my TDS is 245ppm (lowest I have EVER had on my tank by a long shot - 400+ was typical). Based on some recent reading, I am hoping as part of Phase 2 to continue lowering the KH down to maybe 3 and try and keep it there - fingers crossed.

Plant health wise, the tank is actually looking better than it has in a long time. Overall I am seeing less algae on the older leaves and less GDA on the front glass. 

Also part of my Phase 1 experimenting has been a drop in certain Macro dosing (similar to a few others on this forum). As recent as last December my weekly dosing was 35ppm NO3 and 5ppm PO4, with a weekly total of 40ppm K. This week my numbers will be 14ppm NO3, 6ppm PO4 and 17ppm K. Pretty major change for sure. If you had told me in the fall that these macro levels would result in a healthier tank I likely would have laughed at you. Funny how mind sets change.










The oldest leaves on the Anubis Nana do have some issues, but there is atleast 20+ new leaves towards the back that look pretty amazing


















A little humor during the 2nd water change...


















And a little love towards the wifes 40g...


----------



## Immortal1

Guess it's time for a small update. Guess the biggest thing is - I got a new phone  Good bye LG-G6, Hello Samsung S9. So I guess the real question is.... can I take better pictures? Time to find out.
But, before we get to the pictures... here are a few changes / additions. Got a few new plants to ad to the mix - small clumps of the following;
Buce Brownie Blue, Buce Hades, Buce skeleton king, Buce godzilla, Buce splendor purple. Will be interesting to see how these plants like what I have to offer. Ok, enough mumbo jumbo


----------



## Grobbins48

Very nice FTS! Clean and crisp growth, well done!


----------



## Immortal1

Well that was unexpected. I bought a couple of plants from @burr740 and they arrived today. 
Opened the package and realized I got "Burr'd"

Thank-you Joe. Will have to post up some better pics once everything settles in...


----------



## celadon

Hahaha! All the fish in that pic are like "hey check out this box!" "I know, right? It's a real nice box."


----------



## Immortal1

celadon said:


> Hahaha! All the fish in that pic are like "hey check out this box!" "I know, right? It's a real nice box."


LOL, didn't even notice the fish. Guess everybody likes the new hardware :grin2:


----------



## ipkiss

What!!? Hes sending out plants in those boxes now? That's really upping the game!


----------



## Greggz

I agree the box is nice............but what plants are you adding??


----------



## Immortal1

Greggz said:


> I agree the box is nice............but what plants are you adding??



And best of all I like the fact that I can put 2 locks on it! Gotta keep my mico secrets safe :surprise: As for the plants - it's a secret :grin2:
Ok, just kidding - Rotala Mac 'Sri Lanka Bronze' and Rotala Mac 'Caterpillar'. The bigger question is WHERE am I adding them? Still working on that. Spent some time last nite re-arranging and reducing a few groups. I pulled all of the Lobelia Cardinalis and saved the nicer / newer stuff. Absolutely amazed at how much was actually there - if I pulled it all apart I probably could have covered the floor of a standard 20g. My Compacta Hygrophila Corymbosa was pretty much the same way - one giant bush. Probably ditched 50%+ of that one as well. Tonites chopping block will include some of the Limnophila aromatica 'mini', Ambula, and likely 50% of the Rotala Rotundifolia. Also pulled a large chunk of the Dwarf Sag.


----------



## ipkiss




----------



## Immortal1

Guess my next problem is figuring out what to do with these little gems...


----------



## Maryland Guppy

Immortal1 said:


> Guess my next problem is figuring out what to do with these little gems...


Sell them or RAOK here on the forum! :grin2:


----------



## Immortal1

Good morning and Happy Easter to everyone. Figured I had better get my water changes done early before all the family arrives for lunch. 
@Greggz - I have to admit, I am almost shocked at these numbers but I think the pictures below well tell the story. Three weeks ago my weekly NO3 was 14. This past week was 10ppm :surprise: Weekly K is 17 and PO4 is still at 6. Just about every part of me is saying "this won't work - your tank is gonna crash".

Also, can't remember if I stated this already - I really like my new Samsung S9 when it comes to pictures :grin2:
@burr740 - the new plants seem to be settling in nicely. Will be curios to see how much color I can get out of the Sri Lanka Bronze. Curious, what was the 3rd plant?


----------



## burr740

Hygrophila serpylla, easy carpeting plant. Only been in the hobby for about a year, not many folks have it yet. it'll spread across the bottom with a few wild shoots growing up in the air. Just pinch those off and replant them on the edges.


----------



## Greggz

Happy Easter Linn!

The Macranda Caterpillar is a solid grower and will turn in to a nice bush without any effort. I assume the bronze will be similar. My guess is that before long you will have more than you can use of both.

My lower dosing across the board is still going strong. I do not see me going back to my old ways. 

Biggest difference is GDA. Has disappeared, and glass stays very clean with no effort. I have to say I am a big fan of that.


----------



## Immortal1

Time for another small update. Yet another week at 10ppm NO3 and so far nothing has screamed at me yet. Sitting here on the couch looking at the tank I have to admit the new Rotala Sri Lanka Bronze @burr740 is looking pretty good. Unfortunately I am learning that Ludwigia arcuata may not be for my tank. I like the color that the leaves are turning but it just grows too fast. The internodes on most stems are around 3/4" - and it seems to grow twice as fast as any other plant in the tank. May have to try it on the low tech tank for awhile. 

Got a couple pics of the new plants from @Maryland Guppy - L. Polycarpa, if it continues changing to a more amber color will likely become a favorite plant. There is 1 stem of L. Peruensis right next to the Polycarpa - for some reason I seem to have lost the other stem that was sent. The 2 chain swords were nestled into the Lobelia Cardinalis, kinda as a continuation of the Dwarf Sag that is behind the Cardinalis. For now I have the R. Nanjenshan nestled in front of the Rugosa until I get a better idea how it develops in my tank.

One think I have noticed with the Rotala Rotundifolia is the stems seem to be turning more of an olive green instead of the usual lime green. Not sure what it means, but the leaves sure do look a healthy lime green from tip to substrate. Anyway, enough rambling


----------



## Maryland Guppy

Immortal1 said:


> Got a couple pics of the new plants from @Maryland Guppy - L. Polycarpa, if it continues changing to a more amber color will likely become a favorite plant. There is 1 stem of L. Peruensis right next to the Polycarpa - for some reason I seem to have lost the other stem that was sent. The 2 chain swords were nestled into the Lobelia Cardinalis, kinda as a continuation of the Dwarf Sag that is behind the Cardinalis. For now I have the R. Nanjenshan nestled in front of the Rugosa until I get a better idea how it develops in my tank.


Glad that plants arrived well!
Polycarpa can have 3 colors to a stem.
Lower greens, midrange orange, and deep red tops.

Cavan sent me one 2' emersed stem of this a few years ago.
Placed it horizontally right up front glass with two air line suction cups.
The nice thing about this species is when water parameters change the tops don't stunt like the pogo species.
Extra runners/suckers appear along the entire stem.

Tank looks good Linn!!!

Atlantis Update:
After trim #3 and the crap is tossed it is very much an "orange" stem @ this point.
Very unlike the rubin I am growing that has red tops.
The new emersed "orange" has transitioned well but still waiting on a verdict.


----------



## Immortal1

Well this has been fun so far! The bad - luggage got left at Chicago when we left for Seattle yesterday. The good, we finally got our luggage early this evening. 
The really good - met many familiar names I was hoping to see, and got to meet a lot more really great people.
Cheryl Rogers, AGA President. One of the first I spoke with and was extremely helpful given our rough start.
Roy ( @Seattle_Aquarist ) - chatted for awhile - hoping to talk more tomorrow
Vin ( @Saxa Tilly ) - short conversation today, hopefully more tomorrow as well after his presentation.
Dennis Wong - talked for a bit and even discussed my tank for a bit. Looking forward to his presentation tomorrow. 
Deb with registration was also a lot of fun to talk to today. 

Ended up spending the afternoon at the Seattle Center with the wife. Went to a few of the attractions including the Space Needle and the Chihuly Garden & Glass.
Some pics from today. First 2 are Karen Randall's little tank.


----------



## Immortal1

Still not sure why most of the pics are rotated, but oh well - you get the idea anyway 
Absolutely amazing presentations by Cara Wade and Vin Kutty this morning! Got to spend a bit of additional time picking their brains on many topics. Even had a nice discussion with Karen Randall and Cara regarding Bearded Dragons (the wife was really more involved than I was). 
Sounds like AGA video taped both presentations and should have them up on the AGA site at some point. 

Looking forward to this afternoons presentations by Christal Kasselmann and Dennis Wong!


----------



## Phil Edwards

Heh, two former employers have booths in the vendor room. I wish I could have walked in there...


----------



## Immortal1

Phil Edwards said:


> Heh, two former employers have booths in the vendor room. I wish I could have walked in there...


I did try to get those 2 pics specifically for you Phil :grin2:


----------



## Phil Edwards

Immortal1 said:


> I did try to get those 2 pics specifically for you Phil :grin2:


Gee. Thanks. You're such a pal.


----------



## Immortal1

A few take aways from this evening...
Vin Kutty (Speaker)
Roy Slettevold (Seattle_Aquarst)
Cara Wade (Speaker)
Jason Lu (Minnesota Planted Tank Aquatics)


----------



## Immortal1

Looks like I now have a few of these. Original parents from Gary Lange.
Rhadinocentrus ornatus


----------



## Phil Edwards

Ooooooh, those are pretty!


----------



## Maryland Guppy

Immortal1 said:


> A few take aways from this evening...
> Vin Kutty (Speaker)
> Roy Slettevold (Seattle_Aquarst)
> Cara Wade (Speaker)
> Jason Lu (Minnesota Planted Tank Aquatics)


Mr. Lythraceae (Speaker)
Mr. Magnesium (Seattle_Aquarst)
Ms. Spectrum (Speaker)
Can't speak to Jason.

:grin2::grin2::grin2:


----------



## Greggz

Immortal1 said:


> Looks like I now have a few of these. Original parents from Gary Lange.
> Rhadinocentrus ornatus


If those look anything like that picture, it's on my must try list. 

Looking forward to seeing them in your tank.


----------



## Immortal1

Greggz said:


> If those look anything like that picture, it's on my must try list.
> 
> Looking forward to seeing them in your tank.


might be a bit before they make it in the big tank but we will see. Did chat with Gary for about 10 min about shipping ideas. Very nice guy.


----------



## Immortal1

Decent bunch of Rotala Wallichii for $6 - wonder how long this will last in her tank? 

Bump: Decent bunch of Rotala Wallichii for $6 - wonder how long this will last in her tank?


----------



## Immortal1

Ok, one last souvenir from the convention...


----------



## Maryland Guppy

Linn, I some how imagine you had a really good time on your trip.

I will have to revise the "Contract" to include the little ones. :grin2:
Then I may do a recall! >


----------



## Grobbins48

Looks like an awesome trip, thanks for sharing the experience with us!


----------



## ipkiss

Immortal1 said:


> Looks like I now have a few of these. Original parents from Gary Lange.
> 
> Rhadinocentrus ornatus


Sounds perfectly sized for my smaller tank! Sign me up for a waitlist! [emoji16]


----------



## vvDO

Immortal1 said:


> Looks like I now have a few of these. Original parents from Gary Lange.
> 
> Rhadinocentrus ornatus




Did I hear someone say “Set up a breeding tank!” [emoji6] 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Immortal1

Maryland Guppy said:


> Linn, I some how imagine you had a really good time on your trip.
> 
> I will have to revise the "Contract" to include the little ones. :grin2:
> Then I may do a recall! >


During the auction I went on an errand. The wife bought the wee phishies while I was gone and has declared them HERS. Um. Your call if you want to fight her for custody.......


----------



## Maryland Guppy

Just tell her that we may have a custody battle in the near future!

I new the recall would be a painful day! :grin2:


----------



## EdWiser

Hope to at the next convention. I go to MACNA"s every year missed a few due to a divorce The AGA remind's me of the first 3 MACNA's when we had 100 t0 500 people. Now we are at 6000 people with 1000 vendors from around the world.


----------



## Phil Edwards

EdWiser said:


> Hope to at the next convention. I go to MACNA"s every year missed a few due to a divorce The AGA remind's me of the first 3 MACNA's when we had 100 t0 500 people. Now we are at 6000 people with 1000 vendors from around the world.


I worked a few MACNAs as a vendor and it's almost more of a trade show than hobby show these days.


----------



## Blacktetra

Linn, we all love green things, but I'm getting green with envy, would have loved to go, so thanks for sharing!


----------



## Seattle_Aquarist

Hi Linn,

It was great to meet you and your lovely wife. I enjoyed our multiple conversations, even though they were short due to my 'working' at the convention. Hopefully we (Renee and I) will have an opportunity to spend more time visiting at the next convention in two years (Chicago???). -Roy (Seattle_Aquarist)


----------



## Immortal1

Well, I will admit the convention was great and spending time with the wife in Seattle was even better. But, it would seem I now have a lot of work to do :surprise:
Pretty sure this is NOT the way I left these tanks...

Mine...

































The wifes...

















First time I have really noticed this - one Mermaid weed with fatter leaves and one with more spiky leaves...


----------



## ipkiss

You've stolen the show over on burr's tank thread, so I'll come back here to congratulate you and your wife on the new fish!


----------



## Phil Edwards

Uh oh, it looks like someone did some impulse buying at the auction!


----------



## Immortal1

ipkiss said:


> You've stolen the show over on burr's tank thread, so I'll come back here to congratulate you and your wife on the new fish!


LOL, all I really meant to do was twist his arm a bit to get some cool fish for his tank. Especially fish that don't EAT his wonderful plants!

Bump:


Phil Edwards said:


> Uh oh, it looks like someone did some impulse buying at the auction!


Yes, I did. But I really have to blame the wife - she started it....
:grin2:


----------



## Immortal1

Not so much that I am concerned with the ppm value of these 2 samples - as I am concerned with the right hand tube being darker than the left hand tube.
Left is NO3 in tap water. Right is NO3 in 75g tank water. Bearing in mind I front end loaded the tank with 10ppm NO3 after a water change last Wednesday. My daughter was given a weekly pill box with a set amount of fish food for each day so as not to over feed like I typically do. And here we are, 7 days later and I still have what I would call "plenty" of NO3. Maybe I am getting the hang of things...










And, before I break out the weed wacker....


----------



## Grobbins48

Do you always have the much NO3 in the tap or is it something to do with the floods and runoff?


----------



## Immortal1

Grobbins48 said:


> Do you always have the much NO3 in the tap or is it something to do with the floods and runoff?


Actually, using the API NO3 test my tap typically does test out with some orange. Usually a light orange.
As for the floods - my first thought would be the NO3 should be lower with the floods. But it really does not look much different from what I have tested before.
Going to test TDS, GH & KH of tap here in a little bit just to see those numbers are going back up yet.


----------



## Ken Keating1

Immortal1 said:


> A few take aways from this evening...
> Vin Kutty (Speaker)
> Roy Slettevold (Seattle_Aquarst)
> Cara Wade (Speaker)
> Jason Lu (Minnesota Planted Tank Aquatics)


Looks like it was a lot of fun! I almost decided to go, just couldn't fit it into the schedule. I'm so envious!


----------



## Immortal1

Good morning on this rainy Memorial Day. Has been a lot of busy weekends away from the tanks this month so I was very happy to be able to spend some quality time trimming and re-arranging things in both tanks. Some curiosities to consider before seeing the pics; 
With the KH now hovering around the 2dKH mark (used to be 7-8dKH) I have noticed that my 1 to 1.2 ph range has definitely shifted down from where it used to be. Yesterday I noted 5.8ph on the controller and the fish were all just fine - kinda odd seeing as there was a time when 6.2ph would result in almost all fish gasping at the surface. 
And the other thing of note yesterday - after the water change (finally did my first Sunday water change this month! fwi, Sunday is the "normal" water change day) I tested the NO3 and PO4 levels in my 75g. Oddly enough to me, the NO3 level was still in the lighter red range (i.e. 20ish to 40ish?) and the PO4 level was closer to 5 than 2. So, I once again made an adjustment to the fert levels. Now granted, I am putting a lot more emphasis on how the plants look vs the marginal API test readings. But, the API readings should atleast tell me when the tank water is the same level as the tap water.
Anyway, as shocking as it may seem, this weeks Weekly dosing will be 4ppm NO3, 3ppm PO4 and a total of 13ppm K. Will probably have to stay at this level for a few weeks to see if anybody gets a little grumpy. I did notice the Pogo Kimberly had stunted some at the tops but that has happened before under much different fert dosing. The rest of the plants don't seem to be complaining much at all. 

Anyway, less blah, blah - more pics 

From @Maryland Guppy - the Ludwigia polycarpa is really looking nice. I moved it from it's original location and trimmed off the bottom. Will have to give it a few weeks to see how it likes this location.









From @burr740 - the Hygrophila serpylla seems to be growing in nicely! This is likely the first carpeting type plant that I haven't killed.









I wanted to include this pic because this is the most "non green" I have seen Bacopa sp. 'colorata' in my tank - kinda liking it.









Sorry folks, don't have any really cool fish pics like @Greggz so I guess a FTS will be the best I can finish with. I did a fair amount of re-arranging of plants in the middle and left sides of the tank. Kinda liking it - certainly more than the overgrown mess I started with.


----------



## Greggz

It will be very interesting to see how things go at that dosing level. I look forward to the updates.

And the tank is looking great......and the Bows too! You've got a nice herd going there.


----------



## Grobbins48

Nice update and nice shot of the bacopa! I'm with you for the colors, always trying to snap a nice picture when it gets a bit pink.


----------



## Immortal1

Greggz said:


> It will be very interesting to see how things go at that dosing level. I look forward to the updates.
> 
> And the tank is looking great......and the Bows too! You've got a nice herd going there.



Thanks Gregg. I have a feeling that some of the extra NO3 in the water column is from feeding the fish every day (usually, sometimes I forget and fall asleep, lol). I guess what really interests me at the moment is how low do I have to go before the API test shows I am low? Also, as you say, "the tank is looking great" - yet you and I last year would have LOL at the thought of only dosing 4ppm NO3 weekly. Yet, the pictures say all they need to. Now if I had some sort of active substrate then this would make sense. You said with lower macro dosing your glass is now clean. Mine still gets some GDA after 5-7 days. This almost helps confirm the API test that I still may actually have 20+ NO3 in the water column.


Anyway, time will tell if I am somewhat right or completely off base >


----------



## Phil Edwards

That's looking really good, my friend! Whatever it is you're doing, keep doing it.


----------



## Discusluv

I got some Hygrophila serpylla from same source. I have been pleasantly surprised how well its growing in my low-tech tank. Maybe ill finally have a carpet-like plant grow for me as well. 

Nice tank.


----------



## Immortal1

Phil Edwards said:


> That's looking really good, my friend! Whatever it is you're doing, keep doing it.


Thankyou Phil ! I think what I really need to do better is documentation - cause when it all crashes I will really need to figure out what was working :nerd:


----------



## Greggz

Immortal1 said:


> yet you and I last year would have LOL at the thought of only dosing 4ppm NO3 weekly.


My guess is the lower KH might also have something to do with it. When I lowered mine it seemed I needed less and less dosing. I actually lowered dosing again this week (NO3 = 12.5ppm) just to see what happens. 

I also have been testing mine, but NO3 seems pretty steady at about 30ppm end of each week. I've been mixing tank water with RO water to dilute so that I can get a better reading. 

And I would keep a close eye on things. Bottoming out takes time, so could be a delayed reaction..................or maybe you have just found a better new normal.


----------



## Immortal1

Time for a Weekend Update 
This weeks curiosity - Pogo Kimberly. For the last several months I have been trying to keep a nice collection of 3 Pogos in the back of the tank. Recently, all 3 appeared to stunt at the same time. Really not sure why - possibly the lower NO3 dosing? Or the fact that my water change schedule has been pretty messed up for the last month. Don't know. Anyway, this is what I have now...









Where the heck did all THOSE come from? Guess I'm just gonna have to figure out how I am gonna trim this group.

In other news, the Didiplis Diandra is looking pretty nice these days. Have a feeling it's liking the softer water









And in this pic is my nice grouping of Ludwigia polycarpa with some R. Caterpillar just below it. I'm liking the polycarpa as a mid ground plant at the moment but would be curious to see home much the color changes if I let it get tall. Unfortunately at the moment I seem to have an abundance of background plants...


----------



## Greggz

Immortal1 said:


> Time for a Weekend Update
> This weeks curiosity - Pogo Kimberly. For the last several months I have been trying to keep a nice collection of 3 Pogos in the back of the tank. Recently, all 3 appeared to stunt at the same time. Really not sure why - possibly the lower NO3 dosing? Or the fact that my water change schedule has been pretty messed up for the last month. Don't know. Anyway, this is what I have now...


When I get lots of side shoots from Pogo K, I let them grow and cut the top off the main stalk.

Once they get tall enough, I pull them from the stalk and plant them. A bunch of young plants seems to rejuvenate it. Good to get rid of the really fat stalks every so often and start over.


----------



## Immortal1

Greggz said:


> When I get lots of side shoots from Pogo K, I let them grow and cut the top off the main stalk.
> 
> Once they get tall enough, I pull them from the stalk and plant them. A bunch of young plants seems to rejuvenate it. Good to get rid of the really fat stalks every so often and start over.


Sounds like some solid advice! Just really surprised it happened in the span of around 2 weeks.


----------



## Grobbins48

Interesting to hear your experience with the pogo k is quite similar to mine. Had 3 stems going pretty good then stunted. Now I have about 10. For me it was when I lowered all my dosing. Back to my 30-8-30 ish dosing and they are rocking.

Glad to see them doing well!


----------



## Maryland Guppy

This is a feature of many pogostemon species.
Some parameter change occurs and the tops stunt sending off side shoots.
Seems like a survival mechanism for them.


----------



## Phil Edwards

Man, that's some amazing color and growth! You're doing something right, for sure.


----------



## Maryland Guppy

Immortal1 said:


>


How tall are these now, would suspect some color other than green?


----------



## Immortal1

Maryland Guppy said:


> How tall are these now, would suspect some color other than green?


Right now about 4-5". Gonna let them "grow up" a bit more and see how they fit in that spot. If I get a chance tonite, might also check PAR levels at the top of the plant.


----------



## Immortal1

Was getting ready to go do yard work, looked over at the tank and realized - hey, thats really starting to look like something. Figured I would share. Hope to do some more trimming tomorrow - several groups are getting a bit too tall


----------



## Phil Edwards

Hey, that's really starting to look like something!


----------



## Greggz

Phil Edwards said:


> Hey, that's really starting to look like something!


+1.

Getting better all the time Linn!


----------



## Ken Keating1

Beautiful tank Linn, I really like the variety of colors and the free form of the plants. Well done!


----------



## Immortal1

Pre weekend pics - just for fun.
Was noticing the Bacopa Colorata was looking much more pink than in past pictures


















Kinda blows my mind that there are only 3 stems of Pogo Kimberly there


----------



## Phil Edwards

Color me jealous. No, really, that color...me jealous.


----------



## Gillionaire

Immortal1 said:


> Was getting ready to go do yard work, looked over at the tank and realized - hey, thats really starting to look like something. Figured I would share. Hope to do some more trimming tomorrow - several groups are getting a bit too tall


The tank is looking fantastic!


----------



## Wobblebonk

So I've got a low tech tank with bacopa colorata (maybe just caroliniana who knows) and in the morning it's pink/magentaish but it's pale green when the lights are winding down... I am not really sure what to make of that.


----------



## Immortal1

Wobblebonk said:


> So I've got a low tech tank with bacopa colorata (maybe just caroliniana who knows) and in the morning it's pink/magentaish but it's pale green when the lights are winding down... I am not really sure what to make of that.


That is a bit odd. I have move some stems of Bacopa caroliniana into one of the low tech tanks and they stay green (more or less). The one thing I did notice is the leaf size gets much smaller in the low tech environment. This seems to have applied to several different types of plants.

I have not tried Bacopa colorata in a low tech tank yet - might have to try that some time.


----------



## Greggz

Linn the tank is really hitting it's stride.

Might be time for some timeline photos. Much like my tank, yours has changed quite a bit over the years.

I remember when it was dominated by crypts/swords/ferns. 

Quite an evolution, and a job well done!


----------



## Immortal1

Greggz said:


> Linn the tank is really hitting it's stride.
> 
> Might be time for some timeline photos. Much like my tank, yours has changed quite a bit over the years.
> 
> I remember when it was dominated by crypts/swords/ferns.
> 
> Quite an evolution, and a job well done!


Thank you Gregg - appreciate the comments.
Yes, the early version was pretty much simple plants - which I had trouble growing, LOL. 
It certainly has changed a bit over the years. 

The start...



























And this evening...









Little different version of today


----------



## Phil Edwards

You need to make a time-lapse Powerpoint slideshow with Eye of the Tiger in the background.


----------



## Wobblebonk

Little late but morning...








and evening...









does that every day...

bonus shrimp :/


----------



## Immortal1

Wobblebonk said:


> Little late but morning...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and evening...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> does that every day...
> 
> bonus shrimp :/


That is a bit odd (coloring). The other thing thats odd to me is the angle of the stems and the size of the leaves. Guessing your lighting level is much lower than mine - leaf size looks more like my 20g low tech tank. In my 75g tank the overall leaf head size of the Bacopa Carolinina is over an inch.


----------



## Wobblebonk

The angle of the stems is due to it being right under a hob filter, so that parts not so weird. It's almost certainly not as high light as your radions though, I'm not sure I could get away with that in there.


----------



## Immortal1

Ah, the HOB flow does explain the angle of the stems - had a HOB in my 20g for a very long time and had similar issues. 
The coloring is still confusing me, lol. I would almost thing the coloring would go the other way (green in the morning and colored in the afternoon) but I just cant imagine a plant changing it's coloring the quickly. 

Obviously colored bulbs / LEDs can make plants look much differently but I am assuming your lighting is the same in the first 2 pics.


----------



## Wobblebonk

Yeah the lights are pretty much on all the way in all pics, the last one just looks brighter because the phone white balanced it that way without the brighter bits in frame.


----------



## Greggz

Well I'm stumped. 

I've never seen a daily color change like that in any plant.

Very, very interesting.


----------



## Wobblebonk

So.. I measured from the top of a plant in the middle of the tank around 74 par, and around 58 par at the front substrate in the center, for 13 hours a day. It used to be at 80% for 13 hours but it's been at 100% for months now... low tech, almost no added ferts, so it could be some kind of deficiency? Sometimes I pull a little bit of hair algae out or get some algae off the rocks once every 2 weeks or so.
Roughly .6 kh 6 gh ro remineralized with saltyshrimp gh+;/ the focus of the tank is not really the plants at all. I just threw lots of plants at it and pulled out the ones that didn't like it. There's an arcuata tissue culture growing behind the rock to replace what was there originally, but it's real slow growth in there. Everything is co2 starved for sure, but all things considered there's way less algae than you might expect from no co2 or glut and "mid-high" light 13 hours a day.


----------



## Immortal1

@Wobblebonk - I would say your have plenty of light with regards to the rest of the setup. In my opinion I would think 13 hours per day is a bit much for a low tech tank.
Have your tried 80% for 8 hours? Not saying it will effect your color issue, but you might end up with healthier plants - hard to say without trying...


----------



## Wobblebonk

I could try it but I have a bunch of smallish shrimp tanks with ostensibly way more light than you would think anyone should be doing low tech and they're by far my lowest maintenance / effort tanks to keep looking presentable.


----------



## Ryan.Waite

This tank and those rainbows are amazing.


----------



## chayos00

Wobblebonk said:


> Little late but morning...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and evening...


I can confirm you are NOT crazy, I have a guppy tank in my garage that has a bunch of bacopa caroliniana in it and it does the exact same thing with the colors, red in the am and then fades back to green as the day goes on. I've got it in a zero tech tank, just do water changes about every 2-3 months. Uses some sort of LED growth bulb from Home Depot in a home depot reflector.


----------



## Wobblebonk

Alright so I'm not the only one heh.


----------



## Immortal1

I have been meaning to update this for awhile but life seems to keep getting in the way. Anyway, here is the Saturday evening - start I guess. Actually more of an overgrown mess really. Better pics tomorrow - promise


----------



## ipkiss

Beautiful.


----------



## Ken Keating1

Immortal1 said:


> Actually more of an overgrown mess really. Better pics tomorrow - promise


That's no overgrown mess, it looks beautiful. Heck, I think I would of just passed on the trimming and just sat back and enjoyed the view!

Interesting how we each have our own preferences in landscaping styles, some with neatly trimmed groomed plants, others in jungle mode, dutch layouts, some with intriguing rock based landscaping, etc. I'm always fascinated by all types. And yours is looking pretty good as is.


----------



## Immortal1

Ken Keating1 said:


> That's no overgrown mess, it looks beautiful. Heck, I think I would of just passed on the trimming and just sat back and enjoyed the view!
> 
> Interesting how we each have our own preferences in landscaping styles, some with neatly trimmed groomed plants, others in jungle mode, dutch layouts, some with intriguing rock based landscaping, etc. I'm always fascinated by all types. And yours is looking pretty good as is.


 Thank you Ken! Appreciate the compliments. On one hand, I really do like when you can barely see the back wall of the tank. The down side is 24 hours later there is plants breaking the water surface. Not that its a bad thing but I have always felt the tank does better when there is plenty of flow in the upper 1/3 of the tank. Both her tank and my tank had a ton of GDA on the back glass and I really feel it had a bit to do with the over grown nature of both tanks.


Will be curious to see how the tank looks in about 2 weeks. I'm hoping the Pogo K is at about 3/4 to the surface. I can then trim the L Atlantis and L Rubin to the same height and maybe the entire left side will be about the same height. Fingers crossed.

Bump: Now it's time for some new pics. Have to start with a little humor... Was getting the incoming water ready to pump into the tank and for what ever reason I looked up and heres all the fish bunched up and staring at me. Sorry guys, I'm hurrying...









@burr740 - I didn't know this plant was going to be iridescent - pretty cool. And there is another new leaf forming!









The other new plant from Burr is a Erio Vietnam. Gotta admit it's looking a LOT better than I originally expected it to. Guess I was just used to fussy plants dying in my 8dKH water. Now that I am at around 1 dKH plants seem a lot happier - this one included. 









And I guess I should add one of these. Thank you all for the likes / comments.


----------



## burr740

That's looking really good Linn. Need to give the Barclaya a root tab


----------



## Immortal1

burr740 said:


> That's looking really good Linn. Need to give the Barclaya a root tab


Done!


----------



## Immortal1

Really think it's time for a trim...


----------



## Greggz

Immortal1 said:


> Really think it's time for a trim...


Or a bigger tank!>


----------



## Immortal1

Greggz said:


> Or a bigger tank!>


LOL, no, don't need a bigger tank at this time. The 5 tanks that I have is plenty. 

Big hack and some minor re-arranging. Not an award winner - but still pretty decent :grin2:


----------



## Greggz

I compared the two pics and that is a lot more trimming than at first glance. 

Looks like things are going well!

And boy that is one large male Herbertaxelrodi, and the Parkinsoni is really coloring up nice now.


----------



## Immortal1

@Greggz, the 1 gallon ice cream pail for the trimmings was spilling over when I got done. Still need to work on wifes 40g. 
More or less going well. Scratching my bald head a bit trying to figure out a few things... A few species grow like wild fire and look great. Others, not so much. It's not that they are growing bad, just not as healthy looking as I would like. Had an interesting situation a couple weeks ago - for the last 6 months+ I have been running the weekly KNO3 at about 5ppm. Thought I could fix a few things by upping the KNO3 to 8 or 9 ppm. Wow, glass was covered with GDA within 5-6 days and plants didn't really look any better (I know, should have waited longer than a week). Anyways, back to me usual 5ppm and things are basically back to normal on my tank. Her tank - still have GDA issues :-(

Yeah, the 2 male Herbertaxelrodis have definitely gotten pretty big! About the same side profile as my original Desert rainbows but the black forehead of the Herbertaxelrodis is a lot thicker and more pronounced. As for the Parkinsoni he's getting there. I suspect he will get a little bigger and maybe more of a hump. Time will tell. My Bosemoni is really looking nice these days. Remember when I got him I was a bit concerned his colors would not turn out well - well, I was wrong 

Edit - can you see the GDA? lol









And because I can't let Gregg have all the rainbow glory


----------



## Grobbins48

Looking really good! So with 5ppm/ week of NO3, what is your water column sitting at?


----------



## Immortal1

Grobbins48 said:


> Looking really good! So with 5ppm/ week of NO3, what is your water column sitting at?


A little difficult to tell using the API test kits. Basically what I have been doing is to generate 2 samples - 1 is tap water and 1 is tank water just before water change. As long as the tank water is oranger than the tap, I am happy.
If I had to make a guess, 10-20ppm in the water column.


----------



## Immortal1

Time for a small update. Finally pulled the Limnophila aromatica 'mini' - just wasn't doing well and really was just taking up space. Next on the chopping block was the HUGH collection of Chain Sword (Helanthium tenellum) in the front left. I bet I pulled 25-30 plants atleast! Took the best 6 or 7 and dumped the rest. Was thinking I wanted more Eriocaulon Sp Vietnam as it seems to be doing well - LOL, better than I thought. Divided what I had in the front right corner into 3 major groups as opposed to 1 oversized group. Much better. 

Rearranged a few groups trying to make things look a little better - more appealing. Will see how I like it after things grow for a week or two. Anyway, enough typing - on to some pics (sorry, no vintage pics today 

Leftish side









Rightish side









Middleish showing off the Lagenandra meeboldii "Pink", Water Hedge (Didiplis Diandra), and another plant from Joe that I just can't remember the name of









and of course...


----------



## Maryland Guppy

Chain sword is evil if you don't trim runners off.

I like "Vintage" photography! >

Which one is d.diandra? I'm missing it. :|


----------



## Immortal1

Maryland Guppy said:


> Chain sword is evil if you don't trim runners off.
> 
> I like "Vintage" photography! >
> 
> Which one is d.diandra? I'm missing it. :|













At least thats what I wrote down when I got it from you. Entirely possible I wrote down the wrong thing. 

Maybe next post I will bring back some "vintage" pics :grin2:


----------



## Maryland Guppy

Immortal1 said:


> At least thats what I wrote down when I got it from you.


I'll try and put a pic of mine later this eve.
They don't look the same.
More like rotala magenta to me from the pic.


----------



## Grobbins48

Looking good, even if it's not vintage!

Seriously though, nice work!

Some of those bows are getting HUGE!


----------



## Maryland Guppy

Didiplis Diandra with little orange seed pods.
Nodes grow close, less than a 1/8" apart.
I've never had it grow without seed pods.


----------



## Grobbins48

Maryland Guppy said:


> Didiplis Diandra with little orange seed pods.
> 
> Nodes grow close, less than a 1/8" apart.
> 
> I've never had it grow without seed pods.


Do the seed pods drop in the water column ever?


----------



## Maryland Guppy

Grobbins48 said:


> Do the seed pods drop in the water column ever?


Yes, it is a method of propagation.
Typically little sprouts here and there don't make it being heavily shaded.
Now they could nurtured else where in the tank but normal growth gets branchy on it's own.


----------



## Immortal1

And some wonder why I keep certain things. My guess @Maryland Guppy is I got them mixed up. Time to update my spreadsheet, LOL


----------



## Ken Keating1

The rearrangement looks good, it seems to be more balanced. Plus the fish look great also. Great photos!


----------



## Maryland Guppy

Immortal1 said:


> And some wonder why I keep certain things. My guess @Maryland Guppy is I got them mixed up. Time to update my spreadsheet, LOL


And I was going to look in my shipping journal to see what I sent you! >


----------



## Maryland Guppy

Rotala magenta maybe a little under PAR or shaded???
Usually all red @ about 110 PAR.
You still using radion lights I think?









Great excuse to play with camera settings this eve! :grin2:


----------



## Immortal1

Maryland Guppy said:


> Rotala magenta maybe a little under PAR or shaded???
> Usually all red @ about 110 PAR.
> You still using radion lights I think?
> 
> Great excuse to play with camera settings this eve! :grin2:


Yep, still have the Radions. Lately I have been running them closer to 100par in an effort to see how it effects various alga issues. May have to play around with some higher settings again  

Currently using a Samsung S9 for pics. May have to play around with some of the settings as well. have to admit though, at full Radion brightness the pics don't seem to look as good. Right now the lights are ramping down and are probably at 50% full brightness - plant coloring is looking spectacular and not washed out.


----------



## Grobbins48

Immortal1 said:


> Yep, still have the Radions. Lately I have been running them closer to 100par in an effort to see how it effects various alga issues. May have to play around with some higher settings again
> 
> Currently using a Samsung S9 for pics. May have to play around with some of the settings as well. have to admit though, at full Radion brightness the pics don't seem to look as good. Right now the lights are ramping down and are probably at 50% full brightness - plant coloring is looking spectacular and not washed out.


Have you played with the pro settings on the Galaxy S9? I have the S8 and love the pro mode. Can tune the ISO down to 100, and click up the shutter speed to 1/90 or so to get crisp pictures with the high light.


----------



## Immortal1

Grobbins48 said:


> Have you played with the pro settings on the Galaxy S9? I have the S8 and love the pro mode. Can tune the ISO down to 100, and click up the shutter speed to 1/90 or so to get crisp pictures with the high light.


 Will have to give that a try. Just took this pic at the lower light levels...


----------



## Maryland Guppy

Did the didiplis or erectus make it ? Don't remember. :|

My light schedule has been unchanged for over two years.
Now knowing what I can grow well over this time I want to up the PAR.
Going to add an LED strip x2 in the canopy.
This will be timed for a high noon type of thing and only ran for 1.5 hours.
It can only run down the middle of the canopy length wise and I estimate the PAR @ 175 for that two hour period.
Concerned species will need to be in that middle zone.


----------



## Immortal1

Maryland Guppy said:


> Did the didiplis or erectus make it ? Don't remember. :|


Sadly, no. But back then I was at 7KH. Now I am about 2KH - might make a difference...


----------



## Maryland Guppy

Immortal1 said:


> Sadly, no. But back then I was at 7KH. Now I am about 2KH - might make a difference...


Didiplis would have made it I'll bet but erectus I'm on the fence about.


----------



## Immortal1

Was lucky enough to receive some new plants from @burr740 yesterday (Thank-You Joe) and figured now that the tank water has cleared up I would do a little showing off. 
Also went with the Pro Mode on the Samsung S9 (not that I am a pro, but why not)
First on the list is Hygrophila balsamica. Joe tells me these guys will get big - will likely move them once they show me they are happy with the soup I serve.









Then it Rotala Tulunadensis and Penthorum sedoides (I kinda cluster these 2 together)









The rest are some of the random pics using the Pro mode setting


----------



## Grobbins48

Excellent pictures tonight! Things are looking really good in your tank!


----------



## Immortal1

Some weekend pics. Probably the biggest change was I hack out 3 sections of the Anubis Nana that was getting too close to the back glass and attached them to the ugly white PVC intake pipe. Now with any luck it will be a little less noticeable.









While the water was still I decided to get a few surface shots...
























@burr740 - you mentioned putting something behind the Barclaya. I have a lot of Pogo Kimberly so I figured I would give that a try. I was kinda planning on putting the Hygrophila Balsamica back there but at the moment it's still a bit of a teenager - maybe in a few months I will give it a try.

As for the next planned change - Going to switch the Bacoppa Carolinina and the various Ludwigia stems. Hopefully get a bit more contrast of colors and textures.


----------



## celticfrog42

Wow, @Immortal1, your tank is stunning! Beautiful work!


----------



## Immortal1

celticfrog42 said:


> Wow, @*Immortal1*, your tank is stunning! Beautiful work!


Thank you. Very much a work in progress


----------



## Immortal1

Merry Christmas to all my TPT friends. 

Had the opportunity to play around with the tank today. Hacked down the Rotala Sri Lanka Bronze on the right (too short for a good picture today - will look better in 2 weeks) and switched the Bacopa Caroliniana and the Ludwigia groups (little better balance of color I think).










Probably should also mention my latest crazyness. This lighting schedule has been running for the last 2 weeks.


----------



## Immortal1

My new "wall art" at work. Keeps me motivated :grin2:
Burr740 (Joe) 2019 AGA









GreggZ late 2019









Immortal1 late 2019









Grobbins48 late 2019 of 55g









Keating1 late 2019









Tsing's 135g 2019









Maryland Guppy









ipkiss


----------



## Immortal1

Looking at GreggZ's recent trim and reading Grobbins48 comment about 23 groups in his 75g, I figured I would once again count the major groups of plants in my tank (was pretty sure I had like 30+).
As it would seem, I had a few less than 30+, LOL










1.	Crinum Calamistratum
2.	Ludwigia repens ‘Rubin’
3.	Ludwigia sp. Atlantis
4.	Ludwigia polycarpa
5.	Hygrophila Balsamica
6.	Rotala Rotundifolia
7.	Alternanthera Reineckii Purple
8.	Bacopa Caroliniana
9.	Bacopa sp. Colorata
10.	Compacta Hygrophila Corymbosa
11.	Mermaid Weed (Proserpinaca palustris)
12.	Rotala Magenta
13.	Barclaya Longifolia Red
14.	Penthorun Sedoides
15.	Lagenandra meeboldii "Pink"
16.	Rotala Tulunadensis
17.	Pogo Kimberley (Pogostemon sp. Kimberley)
18.	Rotala Sri Lanka Bronze
19.	Cardinal Flower (Lobelia Cardinalis)
20.	Anubias nana
21.	Ludwigia palustris "Super Red"
22.	Eriocaulon Sp Vietnam

Will have to get a before pic next weekend when the back row is almost to the surface


----------



## Immortal1

Greggz said:


> The Maccullochi is a very nicely colored active smaller Rainbow.
> And come on now....let's see those pics!


Wasn't planning on posting these as they were a bit blurry and in some cases, not that great. But, because Gregg asked 


















Some contracting colors...









Gregg, remember my sick Emerald bow? Here he is today. This is the side that had the big growth at the base of the flipper









And this side had some other type of damage. Looking good now.









And why not a pretty plant pic


----------



## Greggz

Looking great Linn.

My goodness those Splendida's are getting huge! And the Herbie's too.

The Balsamica in the back looks like it is doing quite well. How is the Tulunadensis doing? I had it going strong before my disaster and am going to have to get some more sometime. Really good looking plant when it's happy.


----------



## Immortal1

Ok, now all 6 pics are loaded


----------



## Greggz

Immortal1 said:


> Ok, now all 6 pics are loaded


Nope not seeing them.........


----------



## Immortal1

Greggz said:


> Looking great Linn.
> 
> My goodness those Splendida's are getting huge! And the Herbie's too.
> 
> The Balsamica in the back looks like it is doing quite well. How is the Tulunadensis doing? I had it going strong before my disaster and am going to have to get some more sometime. Really good looking plant when it's happy.



Thanks Gregg. They are getting big :grin2:
The Balsamica seems to be doing well. As Joe said, what I got were babies. Now they are decent, good looking teenagers so to speak. The bottoms are looking good and the original 3 stems are now 5 (2 are still babies). Will make a good back drop for the Barclaya eventually. 

As for the Tulunadensis - it's doing ok. Want to say the original growth from Joe has melted, but the new growth since I got it is looking pretty good. This past weekend I cut off all the ratty bottoms and replanted the nice tops - will see how it does. 

Will have to see how my latest mini adjustment works out. Was dosing weekly NPK at 5/3/16 since June 2019. Now the weekly NPK (as of late December) will be 8/5/17. Maybe things will look better? Maybe I won't notice.


----------



## Immortal1

Greggz said:


> Nope not seeing them.........



Can you see the 5 bow pics and 1 plant pic now?


----------



## Greggz

Yep they are up now.....nice!

Glad to see that Wanamensis made it....thought it might be a goner when you sent me the first pics.

How old are the Herbie's??


----------



## Immortal1

Greggz said:


> Yep they are up now.....nice!
> 
> Glad to see that Wanamensis made it....thought it might be a goner when you sent me the first pics.
> 
> How old are the Herbie's??


The Herbie's are doing great. 1 of the males is clearly bigger than the other but everybody seems to get along just fine.


----------



## Grobbins48

Very nice! I may need to get the Balsamica on my list, that is an interesting plant.


----------



## Maryland Guppy

Immortal1 said:


> My new "wall art" at work. Keeps me motivated :grin2:
> Burr740 (Joe) 2019 AGA
> GreggZ late 2019
> Immortal1 late 2019
> Grobbins48 late 2019 of 55g
> Keating1 late 2019
> Tsing's 135g 2019


I am just hurting here, I don't see any little red solo cups! >
The new trend for me may be the variety pack, 4 different color mini cups! :|
Planted Tank Porn, a new acronym PTP. :grin2:

Regarding the hygrophila balsamica not very rare IMHO, I've had it before.
LFS has bunches of it right now but not submerged growth.
Emersed growth is toxic to phish and inverts though.
I should purchase and maybe it will kill all snails in the phishless 33G??? >


----------



## Immortal1

Maryland Guppy said:


> I am just hurting here, I don't see any little red solo cups! >
> The new trend for me may be the variety pack, 4 different color mini cups! :|
> Planted Tank Porn, a new acronym PTP. :grin2:
> 
> Regarding the hygrophila balsamica not very rare IMHO, I've had it before.
> LFS has bunches of it right now but not submerged growth.
> Emersed growth is toxic to phish and inverts though.
> I should purchase and maybe it will kill all snails in the phishless 33G??? >


Well David, I seem to remember one of Karen Randall's comments to Joe about having too much red in one of his Dutch AGA submissions - figured she knew what she was talking about :grin2:
Thinking you will need to work on you cup colors, LOL.
PTP, I like it!
"Emersed growth is toxic to phish and inverts though." Interesting. Assume this only applies to the above water growth?


----------



## Immortal1

Well @Maryland Guppy I did find a recent FTS shot to add to post 817. Nice addition


----------



## Maryland Guppy

Yep, still too much red, damn cups! :grin2:

Just messin with you anyway, mine would be more a de-motivational work. :|


----------



## Immortal1

Maryland Guppy said:


> Yep, still too much red, damn cups! :grin2:
> 
> Just messin with you anyway, mine would be more a de-motivational work. :|


LOL, curious, do they make green Solo cups? Would be interesting if you could fine 2 shades of green, maybe 3. Might even have to rename the thread to "Solo" Dutch :grin2:


----------



## Streetwise

“I know.”


----------



## jeffkrol

Immortal1 said:


> PTP, I like it!
> "Emersed growth is toxic to phish and inverts though." Interesting. Assume this only applies to the above water growth?



here is this.



> If its emersed shoots are placed directly into an aquarium containing fish or invertebrates, the animals will be poisoned. However, the plant is not at all toxic in its submersed form and may be used without issue once submersed growth is obtained.


----------



## Grobbins48

jeffkrol said:


> here is this.


Well that is interesting. What a strange biological transformation to go from poisonous to benign.


----------



## Desert Pupfish

Maryland Guppy said:


> Regarding the hygrophila balsamica not very rare IMHO, I've had it before.
> LFS has bunches of it right now but not submerged growth.
> Emersed growth is toxic to phish and inverts though.
> I should purchase and maybe it will kill all snails in the phishless 33G??? >


How odd that a fish store would sell a plant that's deadly to the animals they sell. Do they have a warning telling people that it's poisonous? Or that they need to convert it to submersed growth before putting it in tanks with livestock? You'd think the grower would've done that before offering it for sale

Then again, it's a surefire way for the LFS to ensure that people have to buy more phish & inverts.....


----------



## Maryland Guppy

When does one trust a LFS?
They are surely not growers, they're moving plants is all.
No notice or warning, they don't know.


----------



## Immortal1

You guys and your beautiful rainbow fish pics.... I just had to give it another try :grin2:




























































And a little


----------



## Immortal1

The last couple of weeks have seen some interesting developments. Lately the amount of algae on the lower leaves has been increasing. Figured something was off so I started testing various water chemistry. The API Nitrate test kit was simply not cutting it. Fortunately @Greggz suggested a Salifert Nitrate test kit. Significant improvement over the API kit. So, what did I learn? Well for one thing, my TAP water tested out at 10ppm NO3. Oops. The tank water was, well, significantly higher than I wanted. So now we are starting the 2nd week of dosing only K2SO4 & KH2PO4. Based on what I have seen so far, I think I am finally headed in the correct direction.

Figured an evening wind down shot would be a nice addition to the collection of pics. Once again, moved a few groups around last weekend. Will see how I like this arrangement.


----------



## Immortal1

Have a feeling I am going to have to do a major trim this weekend. As some of you may have seen in the Garage Time thread, I now have access to RO water. Not going to say that it has made all the difference in the world, but there are atleast a few plants that seem happier. Will have to admit, I am happier not having to rely entirely on the water flowing down the Mississippi river. Anyway, hope to post a few "cleaned up" pics this weekend  oh, and yes I have trimmed the various plants on the left once already since the previous FTS was taken


----------



## Greggz

I am looking forward to hearing more about your thoughts on RO water.

And great FTS!


----------



## vvDO

Immortal1 said:


> Have a feeling I am going to have to do a major trim this weekend. As some of you may have seen in the Garage Time thread, I now have access to RO water. Not going to say that it has made all the difference in the world, but there are atleast a few plants that seem happier. Will have to admit, I am happier not having to rely entirely on the water flowing down the Mississippi river. Anyway, hope to post a few "cleaned up" pics this weekend  oh, and yes I have trimmed the various plants on the left once already since the previous FTS was taken




Nice... I think the best thing about RO is the stability... and of course knowing that nothing else is in your water unless you added it. I’ve had issues with seasonal changes in my tap. GH anywhere from 0-1 to 5.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Immortal1

vvDO said:


> Nice... I think the best thing about RO is the stability... and of course knowing that nothing else is in your water unless you added it. I’ve had issues with seasonal changes in my tap. GH anywhere from 0-1 to 5.
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Agreed - stability is what I am looking for. As our tap water is derived from the "muddy" Mississippi River, we are somewhat at the mercy of what the various watersheds that feed the river provide us. During times of flooding from snow melt, we get pretty good water. Other times we get a lot of fertilizer run off from the surrounding farm land. As you stated, your GH is 0-1 to 5. During flooding mine has dropped to maybe 7dGH. Right now it is running 14dGH and a lot of that is from Calcium.


My hope (goal?) is to try and control as many variables as I can. As @Greggz has stated many times, find someones tank you like and learn what they are doing to get there. The Share Your Dosing thread https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/...ameters/1288329-share-your-dosing-thread.html has given me a lot of useful input as to various nutrient levels that seem to work.


Hopefully this weekend I can document a few changes that I have already noticed. The Lagenandra meeboldii "Pink" from Burr740 has been an interesting plant. For the longest time it would produce a new leaf but the would quickly get covered by algae. The leaf stems seemed rather short and the leaves stayed close to the substraight. In the picture above I have noticed that the leaves and stems are much more vertical. Almost like the plant has transitioned from slumped over to tall and happy (best I can explain it). Look at the picture below and compare it to the picture above - Lagenandra looks a lot happier.









The Rotala Sri Lanka Bronze in the back right corner seems to be growing at a faster rate and with a bit more color.
The Rotala Rotundafolia and the Rotala Magenta seem to have bigger leaves and straighter stems. 

The other thing I was noticing several weeks ago is the Erio Vietnam was getting covered by a lot of GDA and just looking unhappy in general. Last weekend I pulled all of it, separated the various clumps and saved what I thought was the best portions. With any luck a few weeks in better water will return it to a nice lush green appearance.


One of my other "standards" is the Mermaid weed that I have had forever. Last summer and fall I noted that the lowest leaves looked healthy and were well attached to the stem when I was doing my weekend trimming. This past December and January I noted that most of the lower leaves were getting covered with algae and the lowest leaves weren't holding on as well - obviously something was up.


Ok, so I have rambled enough. Stop back on Sunday and hopefully I will have more to add :grin2:


----------



## Immortal1

Well, spent a few hours hacking down the forest. In person, it's visually looking better. Moved a couple plant groupings around again trying to get a better layout of textures. As usual, I like the right hand side of the tank, but the left hand side just seems to be more of a muddled group of similar colors and textures. The middle is looking better at least. 

During the hack fest I also drained of about 20 gallons and replaced it with pure RO water. Still need to do some testing to see where the numbers come in at (later today?).

As for pictures, figured I would start off with some fish pics. The wife calls this one "horn dog" as it seems every time I do a water change he wants to get frisky with the girls. The bright yellow stripe just glows in person. Getting a good picture of it - not so much. (sorry for all the flecks in the water - filter had not caught up yet)

















I kinda chuckled with the wife this morning - "this fish is my most expensive - it's gold plated, lol"

















The next 2 pics just seemed to turn out better than the rest

















As for a few plant close ups...

























And of course ....


----------



## Immortal1

And now I have some data 
After draining off 20g of tank water and adding 20g of straight RO water I get the following:
Ca = 40ppm, GH = 7. This calculates out Mg of 6.1ppm which results in a 6.55 : 1 ratio. Not the best. Added 4ppm of MGSO4 to the tank.
TDS after the small water change is now 224ppm. Definitely a LOT better than the 425ppm I had 3 weeks ago !
Surprisingly the NO3 after the small water change tested out at 20ppm
Also surprising is the PO4 tested out at 2ppm - I dosed over 5ppm last Sunday. Hmmmm

Tomorrow I will do my regular 50% water change, re-check the data and hopefully get things balanced out a little better.

Interesting thing of note to @burr740. Somewhere along the line you suggested to go back to dosing what made the plants happiest. So, in looking back thru my spreadsheet of Ca_Mg ratios I noted on 4/7/2019 that the my tap water tested out at Ca 35 and GH 7 which resulted in 9.15 Mg (lots of flood water on the Mississippi due to snow melt). I think I am on the right track


----------



## Immortal1

Sunday water change update. So today I did the typical 50% water change except this time it was with 100% RO water. Was kinda hoping to bring the Ca levels back down from the previous 70ppm nose bleed levels, not to mention the TDS of 450+ppm. 

Well, mission accomplished. The TDS is now running 147ppm, Ca is 25ppm, Mg is 9.5ppm, GH is 5 and KH is 2. I also tested the NO3 & PO4 levels after the water change so I could better judge how much to add for the week. Tank NO3 was 10 and the PO4 was 1. Considering I added 8ppm PO4 last Sunday I am guessing my tank really likes some PO4. Either that or the Eco Complete has been depleted of what ever reserve it "may" have absorbed. Regardless, I think my numbers are finally where I would like them. Will have to look back on this post in a month or 2 and see if I was correct :nerd:

Bump:


ipkiss said:


> @Immortal1 , I better see a miniature cow in your next tank


It would seem my wife has a pretty good sense of humor...


----------



## Greggz

I'm not sure which is funnier?

That she put the toy cows in the tank......or the fact that you have toy cows readily available!!:grin2:

I guess that's the way they roll in Iowa!:wink2:

Curious. Up above you have a couple of Bow pics that you commented on that they came out particularly well. Any idea why? Change any settings?


----------



## Immortal1

Greggz said:


> I'm not sure which is funnier?
> 
> That she put the toy cows in the tank......or the fact that you have toy cows readily available!!:grin2:
> 
> I guess that's the way they roll in Iowa!:wink2:
> 
> Curious. Up above you have a couple of Bow pics that you commented on that they came out particularly well. Any idea why? Change any settings?


Just the way we roll :grin2:


As for the pictures, well, yes there was a small change for the group of pics. I grabbed my large LED flood light and set it on the table shining into the tank. This highlighted the various colors on the bows very nicely. But, I also just finished trimming and re-arranging almost 1/2 of the tank so the water was not as clear as I would have liked. Add to the fact that horn dog was particularly flirty with the girls and really had little interest in sitting still for a pic. I probably took atleast 20 pics of him before I got 2 that I even considered saving. 



As for the later bow pics - they were taken probably 2 hours later when the tank cleared up.


----------



## Maryland Guppy

So we are now adding Alfalfa to the cows, bet that will change the TDS! >


----------



## ipkiss

Immortal1 said:


> Bump:
> 
> 
> 
> It would seem my wife has a pretty good sense of humor...


indeed. mission accomplished indeed!

the crazy part is.. if u ignore the fish and squint a little, it really doesnt look out of place!


----------



## Immortal1

Small update. Was noticing a few things are looking different in the 2 tanks. In my tank, the Rotala Rotundifolia is looking better 









Also, in the wifes tank the L. Aromatica is looking VERY health on the top. Certainly better than it has in the recent past.









An her Pogo K is looking VERY happy as well.


----------



## Immortal1

Greggz said:


> I am looking forward to hearing more about your thoughts on RO water.
> 
> And great FTS!


Well, I have some more updates...
The Rotala magenta that I got from @Maryland Guppy many moons ago literately would not grow when I first got it. Then it finally started growing, but did not look overly healthy 

Post 795 from December 1, 2020










Here is a pic of the same Rotala magenta today. New growth looks much better / healthier.











The Rotala Sri Lanka Bronze from @burr740 has continued to amaze me. Last weekend I chopped it down pretty good - like 3-4" off the top. Didn't really care what I was cutting - just made it shorter. And now it looks like this :surprise:











This plant, also from Joe (just can't remember the name of it) is also doing much better with the better water. The new growth is nice and green and appears pretty health.











The Erio Vietnam at one point was covered with a lot of GDA and looked pretty bad. Now there is a lot of nice green new growth. Thinking pretty soon I will have to pull a clump and send it to @Greggz to see if it will do any better in his tank 











I also moved a few stems of Hygro 53b back into my tank. It has been hanging out in the wifes tank for more than a year as it just was not liking my tank very much. It has only been in here a week so I am not going to give a final verdict but I am hoping it will remain happy.










Speaking of the wifes tank - I am guessing the Pogo Kimberly in her tank is really hating life these days :grin2:


----------



## Blue Ridge Reef

Tank looks great with or without cows! Man, if you know a method to getting our wives, husbands, and significant others into aquariums I'd sure like to know the secret.


----------



## Immortal1

Blue Ridge Reef said:


> Tank looks great with or without cows! Man, if you know a method to getting our wives, husbands, and significant others into aquariums I'd sure like to know the secret.


LOL, well in my case it's more like - occasionally she goes and buys some cute fish for "her" tank while I do all the work to keep it looking good :grin2:
Random full tank shot of my tank just for a reference...









And her tank...


----------



## Greggz

Immortal1 said:


> This plant, also from Joe (just can't remember the name of it) is also doing much better with the better water. The new growth is nice and green and appears pretty health.


Pretty certain that is Penthorum Sedoides.

Interesting seeing the changes going to RO. Keep the updates coming.


----------



## burr740

Yeah that's Penthorum. Great update! Interested to see how things progress


----------



## Grobbins48

Wow, tank is looking great! Nice update!


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## Immortal1

Grobbins48 said:


> Wow, tank is looking great! Nice update!


Thankyou


----------



## Immortal1

Evidently I can't get the link right for the above pic while at work. It does seem to work if you click on the picture. 
Anyway, the above pic is one of many pics that my friend Jim took last nite. So far this is the only one that he has sent me. Will try to fix things when I gt home tonite.


----------



## chayos00

Immortal1 said:


> Evidently I can't get the link right for the above pic while at work. It does seem to work if you click on the picture.
> Anyway, the above pic is one of many pics that my friend Jim took last nite. So far this is the only one that he has sent me. Will try to fix things when I gt home tonite.


Looks nice, but just edit it to a URL and it will at least open. I couldn't get it to open till I did a reply to see the URL. 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Immortal1

So, last nite I had the pleasure of having my friend Jim over for a visit. Did I mention he is a professional photographer (well, semi-professional. Works part time for local college. Also actually retired).
Anyway, I was wondering if he could teach me a few things about camera settings (i.e. cell phone camera). Well, I did learn a few things - mostly that cell phone cameras are ok for certain pictures but not great for other pictures. So after some nice conversation, he opened is bag of toys and proceed to take a few pictures. So far has has shared only a few of them with me. Can only assume there will be a few more coming  I also learned that some camera equipment can get very expensive :surprise: For those of you that understand nicer cameras, he was using a Sony a7iii body with a entirety of different lenses. He did mention that the one lens was a little pricey... a Sony GM 100-400 lens possibly worth more than all my fish tank stuff combined.
Anyway, he did mention that the FTS below was taken at ISO 2K from about 11'-12' from the tank.









One of the many fish pics that he took









And a couple pics of my bearded dragons just for fun

















Oh, and the really expensive lens sitting on my floor :surprise:


----------



## Ken Keating1

Wow, those photos are fantastic. If one right clicks on them and then select _Open in a New Tab_ you get a much better view, plus it's a full screen. Very nice. 

Let me know when your friend is in Northern California!!!


----------



## vvDO

Immortal1 said:


> So, last nite I had the pleasure of having my friend Jim over for a visit. Did I mention he is a professional photographer (well, semi-professional. Works part time for local college. Also actually retired).
> 
> Anyway, I was wondering if he could teach me a few things about camera settings (i.e. cell phone camera). Well, I did learn a few things - mostly that cell phone cameras are ok for certain pictures but not great for other pictures. So after some nice conversation, he opened is bag of toys and proceed to take a few pictures. So far has has shared only a few of them with me. Can only assume there will be a few more coming  I also learned that some camera equipment can get very expensive :surprise: For those of you that understand nicer cameras, he was using a Sony a7iii body with a entirety of different lenses. He did mention that the one lens was a little pricey... a Sony GM 100-400 lens possibly worth more than all my fish tank stuff combined.
> 
> Anyway, he did mention that the FTS below was taken at ISO 2K from about 11'-12' from the tank.



Wow, besides the awesome photo, the tank is looking damn good!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Squisher

The super expensive lens sitting on the floor and who's innocently coming along to destroy it.................a cat! Lol. 

Beautiful pics.


----------



## burr740

vvDO said:


> Wow, besides the awesome photo, the tank is looking damn good!


Exactly what I was gonna say! Tank is looking great Linn. That lizard is cracking me up, lol


----------



## Immortal1

Thank-you guys (gals?) for the compliments. As I said to Jim - timing is everything. Pictures on Sunday right after a trim just are not the best. And pictures on Saturday just before a trim are typically overgrown. So, Wednesday seemed like the best fit.
As for you @burr740 - I can only imagine the timing headache that you go thru for a dutch submission. 
Fortunately the lens on the floor was a little tougher than the cat


----------



## Greggz

Great pics Linn!

The FTS is the best one yet.

Makes me consider breaking out my DSLR.....but I think the secret is to know what the heck you are doing with it!


----------



## Immortal1

Greggz said:


> Great pics Linn!
> 
> The FTS is the best one yet.
> 
> Makes me consider breaking out my DSLR.....but I think the secret is to know what the heck you are doing with it!


Thank-you Gregg. That FTS is pretty amazing - very much better than anything I could ever produce. 

As for the "secret" - Jim did try explaining a bunch of concepts to me regarding ISO, aperture, and shutter speed. Basically it was about as well received as you discussing target dosing to a bunch of rookies :grin2:


----------



## Greggz

Immortal1 said:


> Basically it was about as well received as you discussing target dosing to a bunch of rookies :grin2:


LOL....Rookies?

Heck, I can barely understand it myself!:grin2:


----------



## chayos00

Awesome pictures! Wish I knew more about my DSLR camera to be able to take great pictures! However with the fact that he was using the 100-400mm camera, makes me think I'll give that a shot when I bust out the camera again to try for an FTS. But it's awesome how all the fish are just hanging out together, almost a "family picture" portrait!


----------



## Immortal1

Well, seeing as I am "working from home" for awhile, I guess it's time for me to add a few pics to you know, keep up with everybody else 
Gotta love @Ken Keating1 latest fish pics!

































Guess it can't ALL be about the bows... well, maybe

















Gotta throw a little love towards the wife's tank 









And will you look at that - a Buce flower - that's NEVER happened to me before...









Guess in my haste to post this, I completely forgot about my other 2 pics...


----------



## Immortal1

Won't really have any rainbow pics or plant pics this weekend. Pretty much spent the entire weekend (so far) re-arranging most of the items under the 75g tank in preparation for a new canister filter. The original 20g water storage tank had to go - just not enough room. The 10# CO2 tank and regulator also had to go to a new home. The opening on the right side of the cabinet simply was not wide enough for the new canister filter to fit. 
Saturday pretty much involved reloacating the CO2 system to where the air pumps previously were stacked. The air pumps were then re-located to under the 75g tank. The 20g storage tank was pulled out and put in storage. Then is was onto re-plumbing water to the new 10g storage tank and all the little things that want with that. 

Today I picked up some new 1" ribbed pond tubing and some 1" hose barbs - assuming everything would go together easily... yeah.
I could not get the ribbed pond tubing on the hose barbs but it slid nicely onto the Fluval hose connection. And thats where the pictures begin :nerd:

































































































So, after all that I was able to turn on the new filter and evaluate how it was working. Was hoping to have a little more flow that what the old AquaTOP CF500 had. So far I am happy. Something to note in the initial part of the video below. Watch the small leaf floating on the surface - it gets pulled nicely towards the skimmer bar as intended. :nerd:


----------



## Ken Keating1

Great write up, I really enjoy the details and notes. And don't worry, you're not the only one who's ground barbs to make them fit, I've spent hours doing that on the grinder. And is seems like the barbs either won't go on at all or are just a little too loose, so there's a fine line on the grinding. And same with boiling water to loosen the tubing, I've been there lots of times.

Funny, not sure how many actually enjoy the detailed notes, I feel like I'm one of the very few. I find it fun, it's almost as if I was there doing the work myself!


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## Grobbins48

Ken Keating1 said:


> Funny, not sure how many actually enjoy the detailed notes, I feel like I'm one of the very few. I find it fun, it's almost as if I was there doing the work myself!


You can count me in this crowd!

Linn- I'll be very curious to know how this filter works out for you! From the pH drop through the cerges, to cleaning and more! Nice write up!


----------



## Immortal1

Grobbins48 said:


> You can count me in this crowd!
> 
> Linn- I'll be very curious to know how this filter works out for you! From the pH drop through the cerges, to cleaning and more! Nice write up!


Thank-you @Ken Keating1 and Grobbins48 - was hoping some would enjoy all the non-plant pics 


As for the filter - there are many pluses that I can see. 

Plus #1 - the drain. As some of you know I have a stub of a stand pipe built into the stand. Great for draining water. Now with the new filter I can drain the water out of the filter easily before servicing it. Makes it a lot easier to carry!!!.
Plus #2 - the drain. Something I realized is I can drain water out of the 75g tank, thru the dirty side of the filter and right out the drain. This will help to keep the dirty side of the filter cleaner. Trust me, the brown/black gunk that comes out of the old filter after 3 or 4 weeks is pretty gross.
Plus #3 - the lid. Getting all the trays back in just right and getting the top to close on the AquaTOP pretty much sucked. Always trial & error. The new FX4 is almost idiot proof - which can be handy!
Plus #4 - the shut off valves. These seem WAY sturdier than the garbage that was on the AquaTOP filter. 

Plus #5 - flow! Probably don't need to say much here 


Now for the "possible" negatives...
Negative #1 - In the AquaTOP, I used filter floss to polish the water. Did a good job until it got mucked up. After 3 weeks it was pretty much full of fine debris and useless. But... it probably had 2x the surface area of the area for a filter floss in the FX4. This has me a bit worried. But... If I can simply drain off some dirty water every week it may last longer. Time will tell.


----------



## Grobbins48

When you say drain off the dirty water, do you mean you can essentially back flush this filter?


----------



## Immortal1

Grobbins48 said:


> When you say drain off the dirty water, do you mean you can essentially back flush this filter?


Sort of. Tank water comes into the filter and goes to the bottom, outer ring (sealed off from the inner column). Then from the bottom, outer ring the water goes up and thru the course filters and then up, over the top of the inner column and down to the pump.
The really dirty muck, in theory, settles at the bottom of the outer ring. The built in drain will drain off the water from that outer ring. So, again in theory, you flush out the really dirty water.


Another item of note (well, 2) - the way I have the filter set up, the fine filter floss is in the very top of the center column. If I want to check/change that filter floss, all I need to do is turn off the filter, close the in/out valves and pop the top. Don't even need to move the filter out 
2nd item of note - this thing is dead quiet!!!! WAY better than the AquaTOP which I could hear with the TV on and the cabinet door closed.


----------



## Immortal1

Something to note if anybody finds this thread and/or uses the Tetra Pond Tubing - the plastic ribbing in the tubing is set up in a spiral pattern and is much stronger than it would appear. That being said, a standard hose clamp works good for holding the tubing onto a fitting but will not guarantee a water proof connection. All 4 connections on the pressure side of my set up weeped some and actually got worse as I tried tightening the hose clamp. 
In my case I found that plumbing thread paste works wonders for sealing the connection between the tubing and the fitting. (specifically, Harvey brand TFE Paste. Slow setting pipe thread compound)
I tightened the hose clamp only tight enough to keep the hose from moving on the fitting (not very tight).


----------



## Immortal1

Another interesting tid bit of information...
the Fluval FX4 puts out more pump pressure than the AquaTOP CF500. I know this in part because of @Greggz and @Bettatail. My Porter flow meter was in operation long enough with the CF500 to know that 14 on the scale worked out nicely for my co2. not so much with the FX4... On several occasions I had to turn on the air stones early as most of the fish were at the surface (not good). Soon realized that the added water pressure was squeezing more co2 into the return water and at a faster rate - oops. 
So, thanks to the guys above my new flow meter is making it easier to find the "new" sweet spot for co2 flow. Current at reading 11 - probably go to 10 for tomorrow.


----------



## Immortal1

Well this should be an interesting "new" direction for my tank. Huge thank-you to @burr740 for the following. Now I just have to work my butt off to keep these beauties alive 
Pics soon
01-Rotala mexicana gopias
02-Staurogyne purple (ya know I like purple)
03-Ludwigia senegalensis (wow, love the color of this one. Really hope it grow well)
04-Eriocaulon kannurense (I have a lot of textures in the tank - but nothing like this)
05-Ludwigia curly tornado (crazy looking plant - should be fun)
06-Hygrophila parawitota (what I like about this one-it is a different shade of green from anything else)
07-Syngonanthus giant (never thought I would get one of these - fingers crossed)
08-Stautogyne porto velho (similar in form to 02 above, but green)
09-Tonina fluviatilis (another one of those on my wish list)
10-Limnophila green wavy (could be a new favorite)


----------



## Immortal1

As promised 









































Granted, once the new plants start growing and I learn more about them I will probably move them around. But for now I think I will just work on keeping them happy...


----------



## Greggz

Wow Linn that is a LOT of new plants.

You'll have some tough decisions to make once they start filling in. I'm in the same boat, can't keep them all.

Always interesting to see how new species adapt. Look forward to seeing where it goes from here.


----------



## Immortal1

Greggz said:


> Wow Linn that is a LOT of new plants.
> 
> You'll have some tough decisions to make once they start filling in. I'm in the same boat, can't keep them all.
> 
> Always interesting to see how new species adapt. Look forward to seeing where it goes from here.


Thanks Gregg. And your right - can't keep them all. 

Sitting here looking at the tank, the right side has some contrast with the greens, a little red and the bronze. The challenge will be building contrast on the left side. 

The Syngonanthus giant and the Tonina fluviatilis have almost the same shade of green but significantly different leaf shapes. The Ludwigia curly tornado is very unique so it should stand out. As the Hygrophila parawitota grows out, it's darker green color should make a nice statement. A nice dense group of Ludwigia senegalensis with it's reddish color should be a nice addition on the left side. And, a grown out version of the Erio kannurense will look really nice.


Now, who's on the cutting block...
If the Hygrophila parawitota grows big, the Hygrophila 53b will be gone. Bacopa colorata may go as well.


----------



## Grobbins48

No joke with a lot of plants! Looking forward to seeing how the do! I am in the process of selecting some favorites to keep right now as well- gotta keep crisp presentstion!

Good luck with them!


----------



## Immortal1

It would seem I did not do a very good job at "keeping ALL the new plants healthy" :-(


----------



## Immortal1

Can't recall if I have posted an overall pic since the beginning of this thread, but, following along with @Greggz and @Grobbins48 work environments - figured I would tag along. 
Though I still need to work on the dosing worksheet...


----------



## Immortal1

Being as I am stuck at home, figured I would post an update on the tank. Well, maybe all 3 tanks &#55357;&#56842;
Anyway, long time ago I was dosing a rather high level of NO3 – like 25-30ppm weekly. Plants were OK, but felt things could be better. NO3 dosing was eventually brought down to 8ppm NO3 weekly and the plants honestly began looking a bit better and many of the algae issues seemed to disappear. Around the beginning of this year I was noticing less plant growth and more GDA issues on the glass, hard scape, and especially some of the plants. *always assumed GDA was due to excessive NO3*. Anyway, on a whim I raised the weekly NO3 to 12ppm – plants looked happier. Now my weekly dosing is 16/6/19 N/P/K and I would say for some of the plants – this is the happiest I have seen them.

The existing leaves of the Lagenandra meeboldii “pink” looked terrible most of this year with excessive amounts of GDA. New growth looked good, but it did not last. The Rotala Magenta was doing OK, but now it is grow faster and bigger. The Penthorum sedoides is now looking very happy. My new Staurogyne purple (middle of pic) also looks like it is growing well. Really liking the leaf color of the Barclaya longifolia red – much better without all the GDA.










The new Tonina fluviatilis is growing nicely. The Bacopa “sp” colorada is finally looking good again. Was mostly green w/GDA on the leaves (look at the older leaves for an idea). Interesting observation – the Mermaid weed now has a lot of skinny leaves at the top as opposed to the fat leaves that I have had since I got the plant. 










The Hygro 53B, which is now in the back, is looking better (honestly). Used to have a lot of GDA on the leaves. What remains seems to be some GSA on the older leaves, which at this point I can deal with. If you look at the wood feature you can see it is covered with GDA – not sure what I will do about that. Maybe leave it?










My Pogo Kimberly in the 75g has been unhappy for awhile. In the pic below I am holding out hope that the healthy new growth will continue. The new Syngonanthus giant, and Stautogyne porto velho seem to be doing well. As I have never had it – wondering if the S. porto velho will be more of a carpet plant vs vertical stem plant? The Rotala Mexicana gopias is, at this point, a very small leafed plant. May just take some time to get bigger / denser?










This is the best pic I have so far of this area. The older Ludwigia senegalensis leaves are showing some GDA, but everything at the top seems to look pretty healthy. The Hygrophila parawitota seems to be doing well. I moved it a bit more forward in the tank – maybe give it a bit more light. As for the Ludwigia curly tornado – I should have guessed from the “Ludwigia” name it would be a bit of a weed &#55357;&#56842;. Probably has doubled in size since I got it.










Gotta thru a little love towards the wifes tank. This pic is a bit over exposed, but it at least gives you some idea of the vibrance of the tank. The Anubias nana has GDA on the oldest leaves, but all the newer stuff seems to be doing well. The Rotala rotundifolia, which is from my tank, is growing like an absolute weed – at least 3” per week, maybe 4”. Pretty good considering PAR in this tank is 70-80 at best. 










And then there is the lowly low tech 20g tank. Honestly this tank was a disaster earlier this year. Plants looked sickly, BGA was rampant, and it was in need of some serious maintenance. 1 month later and this is what I have. Right now I am seeing what plants grow well in a low tech environment with decent conditions. Also ditched the Current Satellite Plus Pro light in favor of a pair of Fluval 3.0 Nano LED lights.


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## Greggz

Nice update Linn.

No surprise to me plants are responding well to a bit more dosing. I know you were dosing very lean for a bit, and I was wondering how that was working out.

How many species you have in that 75G now? Looks like collectoritis is going full steam ahead!!:grin2:


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## Immortal1

Greggz said:


> Nice update Linn.
> 
> No surprise to me plants are responding well to a bit more dosing. I know you were dosing very lean for a bit, and I was wondering how that was working out.
> 
> How many species you have in that 75G now? Looks like collectoritis is going full steam ahead!!:grin2:


Thankyou Gregg. Really should have raised the dosing earlier - just figured the lower dosing was the ultimate answer. 

Yeah... gonna have to schedule a visit with the family doctor soon. unfortunately I don't think his cure will help :grin2:

1.	Crinum Calamistratum
2.	Ludwigia repens ‘Rubin’
3.	Ludwigia sp. Atlantis
4.	Ludwigia polycarpa
5.	Hygrophila Balsamica
6. Tonina fluviatilis
7. Limnophila green wavy
8.	Bacopa Caroliniana
9.	Bacopa sp. Colorata
10.	Compacta Hygrophila Corymbosa
11.	Mermaid Weed (Proserpinaca palustris)
12.	Rotala Magenta
13.	Barclaya Longifolia Red
14.	Penthorun Sedoides
15.	Lagenandra meeboldii "Pink"
16. Staurogyne purple
17.	Pogo Kimberley (Pogostemon sp. Kimberley)
18.	Rotala Sri Lanka Bronze
19.	Cardinal Flower (Lobelia Cardinalis)
20.	Anubias nana
21.	Ludwigia palustris "Super Red"
22.	Eriocaulon Sp Vietnam
23. Stautogyne porto velho
24. Syngonanthus giant
25. Hygrophila parawitota
26. Ludwigia curly tornado
27. Ludwigia senegalensis
28. Rotala mexicana gopias
29. Hygrophila 'Siamensis 53B'

Pretty sure the above list is correct. As the new plants grow I suspect the list will get shorter - or the new medication helps, LOL.


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## burr740

Nice updates. Thats a very nice and chill looking room you have there.


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## andrewss

Very cool fish room!


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## Immortal1

Thinking I am gonna have a busy day tomorrow trimming plants


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## Greggz

Yeah Linn you gotta give them Rainbows some room to swim.......although I do like the "jungle" look you got going there.

Look forward to seeing the "after" pic.


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## Immortal1

Just gonna leave this here as a reminder to me. Finally switched over to K2CO3 Potassium Carbonate for my dKH. The interesting thing about this product is the "K". Because of what it adds to the RO water, I have now stopped dosing K2SO4 with my macros. 
Still a bit curious about my GDA issue in the 75g tank. Last week I dosed the NO3 listed below (front load). Tank looked great Monday thru Thursday. Friday & Saturday showed an increase in GDA.
When I was dosing a much lower NO3 previously (6ppm range weekly) the GDA was pretty much rampant and plant growth was - less. 
So, this week I think I will try adding 2-3ppm NO3 on Wednesday. Hopefully I get a little less GDA, and more plant growth (is that really what I need now?). 
Anyway, will have tank shots later tonite.


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## Hendy8888

I did the same thing using K2CO3 for K, just be aware it is hygroscopic. Mine picked up significant moisture being stored in the basement over summer. I believe it led to some problems under dosing K and led me to supplement with K2SO4.


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## Immortal1

Hendy8888 said:


> I did the same thing using K2CO3 for K, just be aware it is hygroscopic. Mine picked up significant moisture being stored in the basement over summer. I believe it led to some problems under dosing K and led me to supplement with K2SO4.


Good info to know - thank you! Going to find an appropriate container to keep it "sealed"


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## Immortal1

Used the Pro mode for this FTS - maybe a little dark?









Used the basic camera setting for this FTS









Eitherway, there is a lot more room for the bows to roam - which they seem to do happily. 
Will be interesting to see how this week goes - a little less light, a little more NO3. Fingers crossed.


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## vvDO

Immortal1 said:


> Used the Pro mode for this FTS - maybe a little dark?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Used the basic camera setting for this FTS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eitherway, there is a lot more room for the bows to roam - which they seem to do happily.
> Will be interesting to see how this week goes - a little less light, a little more NO3. Fingers crossed.



Looks great! Looks like the syno’s are doing well! Makes me want to try them again!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Immortal1

Some random plant pics that I took earlier in the week. 









































I also found a surprise in my tank last Sunday. Was talking to Phil Edwards this evening and he confirmed what it was. Fingers crossed I can get it to reach the surface :grin2:









For those that don't know - Crinum calamistratum can flower. And if I'm lucky...









Forgot to add the pic I just took of the wifes 40g cube


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## Grobbins48

Those are some fantastic pictures, Linn! I really hope you get a bloom out of it!

Have you had to toss any of the new plants or are they all settling in pretty well?


----------



## Immortal1

Grobbins48 said:


> Those are some fantastic pictures, Linn! I really hope you get a bloom out of it!
> 
> Have you had to toss any of the new plants or are they all settling in pretty well?



Thank you Grobbins. Really hoping it flowers - would be spectacular!
As for the new plants....


01-Rotala mexicana gopias This plant got moved to her 40g. Very small leafed plant did not show up well in my tank.
02-Staurogyne purple This plants seems to be doing well - more vertical growth than 08
03-Ludwigia senegalensis Growing nicely. started out about 2" tall - now maybe 3" from the surface
04-Eriocaulon kannurense This plant melted within a few days. I left the stump but have not seen anything yet
05-Ludwigia curly tornado Very happy in my tank. Looking healthy
06-Hygrophila parawitota Also seems to be doing well. Not the fastest grower
07-Syngonanthus giant Doing very well. Already trimmed once
08-Stautogyne porto velho This version seem to be happier growing sideways along the substrate.
09-Tonina fluviatilis Wow - very happy. Made it almost to the surface and then I cut it in half. Will see how the stump grows back in. 
10-Limnophila green wavy Doing well. Not fast but at least healty.


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## Immortal1

Nothing overly stellar but I figured I would post something


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## Immortal1

Well, that was fun...
In the picture above I noticed thread algae. According to this article it could either be excess ammonia or organic waste. Ok - I have been trying to keep the tanks and filters pretty clean so I decided to test for ammonia. All 3 of my tanks tested 0.25ppm ammonia. WHAT?

So, that lead to a bunch of testing of my RO water, tap water, the distilled water I buy from the store that I fully trusted to be pure (see where I am going here?) and the various equipment I use to collect water samples which I assumed to be clean (never assume). 

After many, many tests it was determined that my trusty sampling syringe (medical grade 10ml) was not as clean as I assumed. Also, the "high quality" distilled water I get from the store may not be as "quality" as I assumed.

Using proven - cleaned equipment I was able to consistently produce 0.0ppm ammonia tests of my RO water and tank water. Guess the end result is I need to keep my tanks / filters cleaner! Oh, and stop assuming!


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## ipkiss

hmm. if I didn't know any better, I'd said you were "cleaning" your stuff in chlorine/chloramine laced tap water! 

That ammonia kit isn't hard to register 0, I practically dip the tube into my tank, seal with my finger, measure out with my thumb on the top, and still get good results! 

To see you go through such exacting scientific methods to get a clean reading is intriguing.

Then again, maybe my kit is bad 

Good to see the tank doing well otherwise!


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## Squids

Immortal1 said:


> Nothing overly stellar but I figured I would post something


Were you able to remedy that hair algae? I'm battling with some myself. Curious to know what you are doing to eradicate it.


----------



## Squids

Hendy8888 said:


> I did the same thing using K2CO3 for K, just be aware it is hygroscopic. Mine picked up significant moisture being stored in the basement over summer. I believe it led to some problems under dosing K and led me to supplement with K2SO4.


Interesting that you would say this. I tested my RO water for K after adding enough to raise to 1dKH. The test picked up less than 5ppm of K. Should have around 14ppm. Has me scratching my head.


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## Immortal1

@Squids - the hair algae in the wifes 40g has gotten better. In my case, the PO4 levels in her tank and my 75g tank were exceedingly high (think 15-20ppm). My guess is, as the plant health went down, the PO4 accumulated faster. GDA was getting worse also so I added a bit more PO4 but did not really "test" that closely for how much was accumulating in the tanks. Once I finally figured out, what I assume to be the problem, I lowered the PO4 level drastically thru water changes and now the plants seem much healthier.


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## Immortal1

@Discusluv - thought I would give you a small update on the 20g low tech tank 
The existing "ketchup" shrimp seem to be doing just fine. At the moment, I can only see the one "mustard" but I am sure there are more of them in there 

FTS during water change









A little Ketchup...









And some nice mustard


----------



## Discusluv

Immortal1 said:


> @*Discusluv* - thought I would give you a small update on the 20g low tech tank
> The existing "ketchup" shrimp seem to be doing just fine. At the moment, I can only see the one "mustard" but I am sure there are more of them in there
> 
> FTS during water change
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A little Ketchup...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And some nice mustard


 Haha! Ketchup and mustard! Great combination 
Well, if you dont see more mustards in next month- we can have another trade and ill send you more mature ones. The little ones I sent you might have been gobbled up by fish!


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## Immortal1

Small update - been working on lowering my PO4 level from roughly 15ppm to 3 or 4ppm in the tank. My GSA algae issues have improved, and plant growth is definitely showing progress! 
Thinking this weekend will involve a lot of trimming in both of the high tech tanks. 
FTS from a couple days ago :surprise:


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## Immortal1

Been a little while since I updated this - figured it was time. 
Probably the biggest change over the last month or so is how nice/healthy the wifes tank has become. For a period of time the B.Longifolia was hating life and now that I have given it a bit more room it seems to be very happy. The H. 53B, which tends to be finicy is now looking very happy as well. Go back a few years and I could not make Limnophila aromatica 'mini' happy to save my life. Now it also seems very happy. 
Really need to thin out the Hygrophila Corymbosa Compacta to allow a better view of the Eriocaulon Sp Vietnam.









As for my tank, I have been moving a few things around - mostly on the left and center. Still a work in progress.


----------



## Immortal1

Looks like it has been awhile since I updated this thread. And seeing as I am on vacation for the rest of the week - I suppose I should do something about my lack of updates 
Current FTS. Will probably add some bow pics and/or plant close up pics later today...
For my info... just before noon, Pro mode, F2.4, 1/15s, ISO 160


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## Econde

Looking good. Nice update!


----------



## Immortal1

Small update - I have a new favorite toy 
A little background; my RO holding tank is in the basement and the aquariums are in the main floor living room. The RO holding tank has a transfer pump in it which is controlled by a light switch located under the aquarium. The RO is pumped into a 10g storage tank that is also under the aquarium. The problem - I have over flowed the 10g storage tank more times than I can count :-(

Solution - some type of controller that will electronically control / interrupt the transfer pump before the 10g tank over flows...








The above controller from XPAqua (RO/DI Guardian) does exactly what I need - shuts off the power to the transfer pump when the water gets too high. 









And the bonus - the controller plug lights up blue when it is powered up. If the water level gets too high, the quiet enough alarm sounds and the controller plug shuts off (blue light off).
When I am ready to fill the 10g tank again, I push the play button on the controller - blue light turns on - RO water begins transferring. 

And of course - gotta have a plant pic. This is in the wifes tank...


----------



## Immortal1

Good afternoon. Finished weekend maintenance and thought I would take a few random pics - likely for reference.
Some changes over the last month or so...
Moved from 50% water changes to 75% (one of the many variables that I have not changed in the last 5 years)
Above water change now includes 100% flush of water in canister filter (FX4)
Incoming RO water re-minerialized to; Ca=20ppm, Mg=9ppm, 1dKH
Currently front loading macros at 10/4/18. Micro dosing unchanged for the last few years.
A little annoyed that "somebody" has been chewing on some new favorite plants :-( 
FYI, red chewed, green normal


----------



## Immortal1

Been awhile since I updated this thread so I thought I would try something new. Daily FTS of the tank for a whole week :surprise:
Well, it did not work out exactly likely I had hoped - life seems to always get in the way... but, this is what I can offer :grin2:

The "BEFORE" - really in need of a good trim!









And of course, the AFTER









Day 3 after the trim...









Day 5 after the trim...









Day 8 after the trim...









Just sitting here looking at the tank, the biggest thing I notice is the Rotala Bronze, just behind the wood feature on the right, got a serious hacking 8 days ago and was pretty much just green under leaves. Today the entire top is a nice bronze color again. I suspect in 4 or 5 more days it will be at the surface again.

Something that most may not notice, the Barclaya longfolia in the middle got a major hack. I removed 12 leaves that were between 18" and 22" long. Removed another dozen shorter leaves hoping to thin it out a bit. today, it still looks a bit large but atleast the leaves are not at the surface. 

Another interesting change over the last few months - I have been lowering the weekly N/P/K levels as well as monitoring the TDS levels within the water column. I seem to recall a few years ago when I got the TDS meter, the water column was like 400ppm+ Right now my weekly macro dosing is 6/2/18 for the N/P/K. Three days after a water change and 3 days of feeding the hungry fish, the water column is at 107ppm. I am adding only 15ppm Ca and 6.5ppm MG to my drum of RO water before I do a 70-75% water change. Macros include MGNO3 which brings the weekly total Mg to 8ppm.
Glass is probably the cleanest that it has been in years - very happy for that. The anubias nana seems to have less algae on the leaves compared to a year ago. The biggest difference I notice is the Lagenandra meeboldii "Pink". If you know what your are looking for, almost every picture of my tank over the last year + has a glimpse of this plant absolutely covered in algae. Right now it has a very light coating on the newer leaves - almost has the "pink" look that I was hoping for. I also seem to have some healthy Buce plants growing amongst the Anubias Nana on the right side - kinda amazing for me, lol.

Anyway, thought I might share another amazing pic from about a month ago...
In my wifes tank, there is also a big clump of Anubias nano on a wood feature in the middle back of the tank. I do my best to trim off the sick leaves that I can see. It would seem there might have been a few leaves on the back that I might have let go for a year or two... oops


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## Edward

Immortal1 said:


> Another interesting change over the last few months - I have been lowering the weekly N/P/K levels as well as monitoring the TDS levels within the water column. I seem to recall a few years ago when I got the TDS meter, the water column was like 400ppm+ Right now my weekly macro dosing is 6/2/18 for the N/P/K. Three days after a water change and 3 days of feeding the hungry fish, the water column is at 107ppm. I am adding only 15ppm Ca and 6.5ppm MG to my drum of RO water before I do a 70-75% water change. Macros include MGNO3 which brings the weekly total Mg to 8ppm.


 Hi Immortal1
Can your values be interpreted as weekly 70 – 75 % water change with 15 ppm Ca and 6.5 ppm Mg. And, if daily, then 1 ppm NO3, 0.33 ppm PO4, 3 ppm K and 0.25 ppm Mg?

Would be interesting to know TDS of premixed RO water, and then just before water change, what are nutrient levels, including NH4 and TDS. This could show the dynamics of the process.


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## Greggz

Edward said:


> Hi Immortal1
> Can your values be interpreted as weekly 70 – 75 % water change with 15 ppm Ca and 6.5 ppm Mg. And, if daily, then 1 ppm NO3, 0.33 ppm PO4, 3 ppm K and 0.25 ppm Mg?
> 
> Would be interesting to know TDS of premixed RO water, and then just before water change, what are nutrient levels, including NH4 and TDS. This could show the dynamics of the process.


Edward curious what dynamics are you interested in?

I have a very similar process and @Immortal1 and I have comparing notes on this recently.


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## Immortal1

Edward said:


> Hi Immortal1
> Can your values be interpreted as weekly 70 – 75 % water change with 15 ppm Ca and 6.5 ppm Mg. And, if daily, then 1 ppm NO3, 0.33 ppm PO4, 3 ppm K and 0.25 ppm Mg?
> 
> Would be interesting to know TDS of premixed RO water, and then just before water change, what are nutrient levels, including NH4 and TDS. This could show the dynamics of the process.


 Yes, I am doing weekly water changes. The 50(ish) gallon drum of RO water starts out around 3ppm TDS (not all meters are the same). 

From my calculations, 16ppm CaSO4.2H2O should have a dGH of 2.24. The 6.5ppm MgSO4.7H2O should have a dGH of 1.5. Added together, I get 3.74dGH. As I understand it, if I multiply the dGH by 17.9 I should get 66.9ppm TDS. Plus the 3ppm TDS of the RO water gives me 69.9ppm (mathematically). My TDS meter shows the drum about 75-76ppm TDS.


This past weekend, my 75g tank showed a water column of 120ppm TDS before water change (I was dosing 20.9 Ca and 8 Mg to the drum of RO used 2 weeks ago_roughly 100ppm TDS). After 70-75% water change I had 91ppm TDS. I add the weekly 6/2/18.75 (N/P/K) after the water change. The next day I was around 96ppm TDS in the tank.


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## Edward

Hi Immortal1
Is the added 6 ppm NO3, 2 ppm PO4 and 18 ppm K per aquarium size or per changed water quantity?


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## Immortal1

Edward said:


> Hi Immortal1
> Is the added 6 ppm NO3, 2 ppm PO4 and 18 ppm K per aquarium size or per changed water quantity?


Per aquarium water column volume of 66 gallons. If it matters any, I am using MgNO3 as opposed to KNO3.


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## Edward

Hi Immortal1
What I meant was subtract what goes out from what went in in one week.

In:
A. ? ppm TDS (premix tested with TDS meter)
B. 15 ppm Ca (for reference only)
C. 6.5 ppm Mg (for reference only)
D. 8 ppm NO3 (per changed water)
E. 2.7 ppm PO4 (per changed water)
F. 24 ppm K (per changed water)
G. 0 ppm NH4
H. ? dKH

Out:
A. ? ppm TDS (to monitor changes)
B. Ca doesn’t change much in a week, maybe – 2.8 ppm, ignore
C. Mg doesn’t change much in a week, maybe – 0.7 ppm, ignore
D. ? ppm NO3, to see if fish waste produces more than plants take
E. ? ppm PO4, to see if fish waste produces more than plants take
F. ? ppm K, if you have a test kit
G. ? ppm NH4, to see NH4 : NO3 ratio due to fish waste
H. ? dKH, to see if something is effecting it

The result could reveal interesting scenarios with your high light, high CO2 and high fish load. Just interesting.


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## Immortal1

Hmmm @Edward - sounds interesting.


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## Immortal1

Edward said:


> Hi Immortal1
> What I meant was subtract what goes out from what went in in one week.
> 
> In:
> A. ? ppm TDS (premix tested with TDS meter)
> B. 15 ppm Ca (for reference only)
> C. 6.5 ppm Mg (for reference only)
> D. 8 ppm NO3 (per changed water)
> E. 2.7 ppm PO4 (per changed water)
> F. 24 ppm K (per changed water)
> G. 0 ppm NH4
> H. ? dKH
> 
> Out: Just before water change
> A. ? ppm TDS (to monitor changes) 111ppm
> B. Ca doesn’t change much in a week, maybe – 2.8 ppm, ignore
> C. Mg doesn’t change much in a week, maybe – 0.7 ppm, ignore
> D. ? ppm NO3, to see if fish waste produces more than plants take Salifert NO3 kit looks like 10ppm looking straight down. Looking thru the side (10x magnification) it is not 100ppm. A little darker than 50ppm so I am guessing the tank is holding around the 6ppm that I am dosing.
> E. ? ppm PO4, to see if fish waste produces more than plants take API PO4 test showed 2ppm. I cut the next test with 50% RO water - result looked very close to 1ppm so I better believe the result.
> F. ? ppm K, if you have a test kit I do not have a test kit for K. My dosing should add around 18ppm
> G. ? ppm NH4, to see NH4 : NO3 ratio due to fish waste API Ammonia test showed 0ppm. Also tested her 40g and the RO drum - all were 0ppm
> H. ? dKH, to see if something is effecting it API test kit generated color change on first drop. Suspect I am running less than 1dKH. My dosing of the RO water is intended to give me about 1dKH
> 
> The result could reveal interesting scenarios with your high light, high CO2 and high fish load. Just interesting.



Not claiming to know everything about planted tanks (maybe in another 55 years), but I think I must be getting some things right 
Rotala bronze right at the surface and right under the light - very high PAR (yes, same green plant behind wood feature in the 12/16/2020 post above)









One of my favorite times of the day is the 15-20 minutes around 9am (assuming no clouds) when the sun actually hits the tanks. Colors just seem to pop alot! Turned on the overhead lighting as well just to see what effects I could generate this morning. Below is a couple of the good ones.


----------



## Edward

In:
A. ? ppm TDS (premix tested with TDS meter)


----------



## Immortal1

Edward said:


> In:
> A. ? ppm TDS (premix tested with TDS meter)


Was hoping to get the water change in today but the RO system has not caught up yet (morning water change on 40g & 20g tanks). Still hoping to get the water change in before I go to bed. 

My last batch of RO measured 80ppm TDS with the CASo4, MGSO4, and K2CO3 added (CA=16ppm, MG=6.5ppm, 1dKH)


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## ReeferRusso

Immortal1 said:


> Was hoping to get the water change in today but the RO system has not caught up yet (morning water change on 40g & 20g tanks). Still hoping to get the water change in before I go to bed.
> 
> My last batch of RO measured 80ppm TDS with the CASo4, MGSO4, and K2CO3 added (CA=16ppm, MG=6.5ppm, 1dKH)


Ok, I've been following along on this thread as I am attempting to learn as much as I can about planted tanks in every aspect. 

The information being shared on this thread is educational as well as interesting, albeit above my head. 

I apologize, in advance, for detracting from the spirit of the thread. 

What kind of RO system are you running?

Sent from my mobile device using Tapatalk Pro


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## Immortal1

ReeferRusso said:


> Ok, I've been following along on this thread as I am attempting to learn as much as I can about planted tanks in every aspect.
> 
> The information being shared on this thread is educational as well as interesting, albeit above my head.
> 
> I apologize, in advance, for detracting from the spirit of the thread.
> 
> What kind of RO system are you running?
> 
> Sent from my mobile device using Tapatalk Pro



Probably excessive ;-) 

Liquagen 150 gpd 4 stage RO system. Booster pump to raise line pressure from 54psi to 93psi. 650 gph Jabeo pump in 50g plastic holding drum


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## ReeferRusso

Immortal1 said:


> Probably excessive ;-)
> 
> Liquagen 150 gpd 4 stage RO system. Booster pump to raise line pressure from 54psi to 93psi. 650 gph Jabeo pump in 50g plastic holding drum


That's a nice set up and I do not think it to be excessive, at all.

Have you considered adding a second RO filter to increase the output, likely doubling it, while not affecting the water parameters? This may not be a concern as you have the holding tank but it would save you a lot of water. 

I presently have my RO system set up this way because I do not have anywhere to place a permanent holding tank and being able to fill my 58g water change container in 6 hours is fantastic. Plus, I like having less waste. 

Sent from my mobile device using Tapatalk Pro


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## chayos00

ReeferRusso said:


> That's a nice set up and I do not think it to be excessive, at all.
> 
> Have you considered adding a second RO filter to increase the output, likely doubling it, while not affecting the water parameters? This may not be a concern as you have the holding tank but it would save you a lot of water.
> 
> I presently have my RO system set up this way because I do not have anywhere to place a permanent holding tank and being able to fill my 58g water change container in 6 hours is fantastic. Plus, I like having less waste.
> 
> Sent from my mobile device using Tapatalk Pro


When I went RO I went with the BRS water saver kit (dual RO membranes) and I produce about a 1:1 ratio with my pressure at 90psi due to a booster pump. That's a big water savings when making 120g of RO water for me. I'm half tempted to add a second booster pump and another set of dual membranes for my slow 2 day winter time production. I use the Spectra Pure 99% rejection membranes too and usually get a 0-3 TDS output. 

Love the copper hardline for the RO water! 

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


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## Immortal1

chayos00 said:


> When I went RO I went with the BRS water saver kit (dual RO membranes) and I produce about a 1:1 ratio with my pressure at 90psi due to a booster pump. That's a big water savings when making 120g of RO water for me. I'm half tempted to add a second booster pump and another set of dual membranes for my slow 2 day winter time production. I use the Spectra Pure 99% rejection membranes too and usually get a 0-3 TDS output.
> 
> Love the copper hardline for the RO water!
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


Thanks Chayos00 for the info and compliment. The copper lines were a fun little addition to the setup. I very well may look into a second RO membrane as you and Reefer mentioned. Kinda getting tired of hearing the wife complain about how much water is going down the drain :grin2:


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## Edward

Hi Immortal1
You have it all balanced so nicely there is nothing to say, except maybe you could do water changes every two weeks. Basically the fish feed the plants with the right amount of nitrogen and phosphorus. 

You’ve got pretty happy fish over there.


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## Immortal1

Edward said:


> Hi Immortal1
> You have it all balanced so nicely there is nothing to say, except maybe you could do water changes every two weeks. Basically the fish feed the plants with the right amount of nitrogen and phosphorus.
> 
> You’ve got pretty happy fish over there.



Thank-you Edward. Don't know if "I'm" ready for a bi-weekly water change yet - maybe someday :wink2:


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## NotThePainter

Immortal1 said:


> Was getting ready to go do yard work, looked over at the tank and realized - hey, thats really starting to look like something. Figured I would share. Hope to do some more trimming tomorrow - several groups are getting a bit too tall


Wow!


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## Greggz

That Rotala Bronze is a good looking plant.

What is the color like in person? Looks more pinkish than bronze? Trying to determine if I need to clear a spot for it!:grin2:


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## Immortal1

Greggz said:


> That Rotala Bronze is a good looking plant.
> 
> What is the color like in person? Looks more pinkish than bronze? Trying to determine if I need to clear a spot for it!:grin2:


Good questions. As for clearing a spot I will probably have to leave that up to you - but I will try twisting your arm a little bit. 

Sitting here looking at it, there is a mixture of green leaves and bronze leaves. Compared to other green plants in the tank it definitely has a bronze look to it. Now, as it gets closer to the surface (lets say the within 1" of the surface) it really does pink up. If I ignore it and let the water current sweep it a bit to the side, the top 2-3" will pink up. Honestly looks best IMO when you leave it at the surface for awhile, then pull the entire bunch. Cut off the bottoms and replant it. Looks wise, a better option than cutting off the tops and waiting for the stumps to grow back (like in the after pic of post 918 above, just after the trim. Notice on day 8 it's starting to get the bronze color back)



Now that I have enough of it, it does make for a nice color addition to the tank.









Another plant that is really getting my interest is the Rotala Magenta (at least, thats what I am assuming it is). When I first got it from MG they were young side shoots and seemed to take forever to get going. Now that my tank parameters are getting better the plant is getting huge. Somewhat similar colors to the sri lanka bronze, but from the right angle you can see a fair amount of red/magenta.


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## Immortal1

Like a few others - this weekend seemed like a good opportunity to not only do the regular maintenance but also remove some excess plant mass. 
In my case, the Stautogyne porto velho had gotten a bit out of control. Ended up removing about 50% of what was there. The Eriocaulon Sp Vietnam had become one giant mound. Probably ended up removing about 50% of that one also. The rest of the stems on the left got some good maintenance (bottom 1/3 removed). The Rotala Sri Lanka Bronze on the right had roughly the top 1/4 hacked off and it's still a bit big. Oh well, more trimming 









Probably the biggest, project, of today was pulling out the wood hard scape on the back right corner. This thing has been sitting in the same place for a VERY long time. For the last few years I have been growing Anubias nana and some Buce on it. Got to thinking there was a good possibility that corner was probably pretty full of detris along with the interior of the plant. Was a bit intimidating pulling it out but...

from WAY back when The skinny top bar of wood rotted off a few years ago.

This is the side I normally can see









And the side I honestly don't think I have ever seen









LOL, once I had it out I had to fish one of the Amano Shrimp back into the tank.

In other news - my collectoritis has once again got the better of me (damn you @burr740 LOL). These are going to live in the wifes tank for a little while until I figure out what to do with them 

























One other final note - picked up a Kamoer X1 dosing pump to hopefully give me a little more consistent micro dosing. Not 100% set up - more on that later.


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## Immortal1

Learned something interesting today...
So, lately I have found laying something up against the lights when I take a FTS helps the camera on the cell phone "see" more accurate colors (the phone sees more of the intense LED light vs whats in the tank).
Sitting across the room, the wife noticed she liked looking at the tanks better with the covers installed. Then there was the AHA moment...









You can clearly see that the single light on the left is set to a different color than the 2 lights over my tank. I seem to recall @jeffkrol commenting about having a white back drop behind a specific light to help see the "color" of the light. This seems to work pretty well.

The material is corrugated plastic sheeting that the wife uses at her work for making various advertising signs


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## Immortal1

So I figured I would finally add some info on my latest hardware addition - a dosing pump. Front loading macros is not too big of a deal. Remembering to add micros 3 times per week based on what day you actually completed your water change, and for which of the 3 tanks gets to be a bit much for my absent mindedness :grin2:

After a bit of research I went with the Kamoer X1 micropump. Still need to prime it with the actual micro solution, but the pics below should give you a good idea of the progress...

































Dosing schedule was 10ml, 3 times per week. Now it will be 6ml added on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday & Friday.


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## ReeferRusso

Immortal1 said:


> So I figured I would finally add some info on my latest hardware addition - a dosing pump. Front loading macros is not too big of a deal. Remembering to add micros 3 times per week based on what day you actually completed your water change, and for which of the 3 tanks gets to be a bit much for my absent mindedness :grin2:
> 
> 
> 
> After a bit of research I went with the Kamoer X1 micropump. Still need to prime it with the actual micro solution, but the pics below should give you a good idea of the progress...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dosing schedule was 10ml, 3 times per week. Now it will be 6ml added on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday & Friday.


Looks like a winner!

I like how you're using a NLS food container as a booster seat. That's exactly what I would use my NLS food for too as none of my fish will eat it. And when I say, "None", I mean none! 

Oh, I also dig the candle. Is that to create some ambiance when the fish are feeling frisky?!? ;-)

Sent from my mobile device using Tapatalk Pro


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## chayos00

You can add an air stone to the hose, but maybe something like a metal fitting/adapter to prevent a restriction. 

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


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## Immortal1

ReeferRusso said:


> Looks like a winner!
> 
> I like how you're using a NLS food container as a booster seat. That's exactly what I would use my NLS food for too as none of my fish will eat it. And when I say, "None", I mean none!
> 
> Oh, I also dig the candle. Is that to create some ambiance when the fish are feeling frisky?!? ;-)
> 
> Sent from my mobile device using Tapatalk Pro



Candle is used for evening mood lighting - after the main lights shut off :grin2:
As for the NLS - the bows seem to be ok with it. I tend to feed them a custom flake mix more often though.


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## Immortal1

Trying something new so bare with me.
Using Samsung S9 phone to access TPT & directly upload pic from phone (no hosting site). FYI, this is the wife's tank.
First pic is taken using standard camera settings for Photo. Colors to me look very washed out and over exposed. Tank lighting at normal full setting.
Second pic is using Pro mode ISO 500, F1.5, 1/250 WB 4500K. Colors to me look closer to in person, but still a bit blah compared to in person.


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## Immortal1




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## Immortal1

ISO 250, f2.4, 1/60, WB 4500k


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## Immortal1

ISO 200, f2.4, 1/50, WB 4500k
Light-100% blue, cool white, green, red. Warm white 0%. Power 50%


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## Immortal1

In the above post, the top image is what ever size TPT chooses to add. The bottom image is full size. If I right click the bottom image and "view image" I get a larger pic AND can zoom in. This is starting to look closer to what I see in person.


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## Immortal1

ISO 200, f2.4, 1/45, WB 4500k
Light-100% blue, cool white, green, red. Warm white 50%. Power 50%


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## ReeferRusso

What can be accomplished with a camera on a phone is pretty remarkable these days. Wouldn't you agree?


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## Immortal1

Agreed with @ReeferRusso - it amazes me to no end what can be done with a cell phone these days - especially considering it's size.
So, more experimenting. After looking at a bunch of pics on the Share your bulb combo thread, I thought I would make some changes to the Light as opposed to the camera. Cool white down, warm white up and green up a bunch.

ISO 160, f2.4, 1/60, WB 5700k
Light-100% blue, 25% cool white, 60% warm white, 75% green, 100% red. Power 88%
Pic saved to DropBox and uploaded to TPT w/o edit









If you click on the pic, View Image, you should be able to zoom in and see all the gory details


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## Immortal1

Ok, the above pic is finally looking like the real thing. (posting, as opposed to editing as @Greggz mentioned you currently can only Edit so many times in 1 week I guess).
The New Guinea Red (Irian) Rainbow (Glossolepis incisus) in the middle of the pic is looking very clear, almost as good as Gregg's shots. The Limnophila aromatica 'mini' in the front right shows the correct color that I see in person. Behind it is the Rotala Sri Lanka Bronze which is starting to show a nice color. I am adjusting the light duration and color temps but not the power level (about 80PAR), will see how this effects the plant coloring.
Always a learning experience - hopefully the last few posts will help with light coloring and photography of my 75g tank


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## Immortal1

The tanks...


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## Immortal1

LOL, well that one is overexposed....


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## Immortal1

Let's try this one...


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## Immortal1

Thought I would post a couple of pics today now that I am done with weekend maintenance.
My 75g tank, her 40g tank, and the 20g low tech tank


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## Immortal1

Took forever to figure out how to upload a HD video but I think I finally got it 
All 3 tanks


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## burr740

Nice video! Did the doorbell ring? haha


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## Immortal1

burr740 said:


> Nice video! Did the doorbell ring? haha


LOL, no - was one of the cats. Just had to scratch at the collar during the video. Was kinda surprised at how loud it was.
Having watched the video a few times, I am amazed at how the video shows the correct color temp on the 20g tank (first one), then gets bit funky (to warm?) when switching to the other tanks. Get the feeling my phone camera just does not like high power LED lighting.


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## Plinkploop

Your rainbow tank is the stuff dreams are made of!! Thank you soooooo much!!!!


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## Immortal1

Plinkploop said:


> Your rainbow tank is the stuff dreams are made of!! Thank you soooooo much!!!!


Thank-you


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## ReeferRusso

Nice pics and dig the video too!


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## Immortal1

*Subject:* *Failed experiment*

Initial goal was to lower how much “stuff” I add to the RO water in an effort to supply the cleanest source water possible while still giving the plants what they need to grow. (started the decline sometime in December 2020).

I ended up “thinking” I was dosing my RO drum to 16ppm CaSO4 and 5ppm MgSO4 each time I did a water change. The method I was using to get to the 16 / 5 amount was to test the ppm TDS of the RO drum water after a fill up, then add enough CaSO4, MgSO4 and K2CO3 to get back to my target ppm TDS and 1dKH. (target ppm TDS value was based on dGH information supplied by Rotalabutterfly for Ca & Mg, then calculated out to an approximate ppm TDS which also included the ppm TDS of the actual RO water with nothing added).

Now, anybody out there figure out where I might have gone wrong yet?

It would seem 1dKH of K2CO3 actually adds a fair amount of ppm TDS to the equation. I was not accounting for that and basically the end result was my aquarium water column Ca & Mg levels decreased a specific amount with each water change. Kinda a reverse accumulation if you will.

I could not find any reliable info on how much ppm TDS 1dKH would add to a given volume of water so I ended up doing my own non-scientific experiment. Started with 1 gallon of TAP water and measured the ppm TDS of that. Then calculated how much K2CO3 would be needed to raise the KH of the gallon of water by 1dKH. Added that amount and gave it some time to dissolve (about an hour). Would seem that tiny amount of K2CO3 raised the RO water level 18.5ppm TDS.

My best guess is my aquarium water column was down to around 9 to 10ppm Ca. This, it seems, lead to many unhappy plants. Which lead to some poor growth. Which I believe gave the green dust algae a prime opportunity to say hello and stick around for awhile. For now, my water column will be correctly dosed to 20ppm Ca and a total of 7.35ppm Mg (additional Mg from MgNO3). Fingers crossed I will get back to happy plants again.

And if anyone is interested, water change volume is 75% per week and the latest “dosed” N/P/K is 12/6/18


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## Immortal1

Have been wanting to do this for awhile - just never seemed to have time.








Another interesting development (experiment?) since my last post - I added diffusers to my Radion XR-15 freshwater lights.

Was dealing with a lot of GDA. Finally pulled out the Seneye to check things out... well, about 4" above the substrate was 150ish PAR and right under the light, 1" below the surface it was 540ish PAR. WOW, maybe OK for @Greggz 's tank, but not good for my tank. So, I turned down the lights to about 105 PAR at the substrate which is more reasonable, but I was still getting a pretty hot spot right under each light. So, DIY to the rescue (factory diffusers are like hens teeth these days). I used a clear prismatic polycarbonite diffuser. The hot spot is much more diffused and the substrate PAR dropped to 90-94. Will run with this setup for a month or so and see how the plants like it.


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## ReeferRusso

Immortal1 said:


> Have been wanting to do this for awhile - just never seemed to have time.
> View attachment 1027670
> 
> Another interesting development (experiment?) since my last post - I added diffusers to my Radion XR-15 freshwater lights.
> 
> Was dealing with a lot of GDA. Finally pulled out the Seneye to check things out... well, about 4" above the substrate was 150ish PAR and right under the light, 1" below the surface it was 540ish PAR. WOW, maybe OK for @Greggz 's tank, but not good for my tank. So, I turned down the lights to about 105 PAR at the substrate which is more reasonable, but I was still getting a pretty hot spot right under each light. So, DIY to the rescue (factory diffusers are like hens teeth these days). I used a clear prismatic polycarbonite diffuser. The hot spot is much more diffused and the substrate PAR dropped to 90-94. Will run with this setup for a month or so and see how the plants like it.


Thanks for supplying the plant identification picture. It's something that people like me, who are new to the planted world, really appreciate!

Your tank is looking very nice!


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## Immortal1

ReeferRusso said:


> Thanks for supplying the plant identification picture. It's something that people like me, who are new to the planted world, really appreciate!
> 
> Your tank is looking very nice!


Thank-you. I seem to remember saying pretty much the same thing when I first started - really nice to know what all the plants are called. And to be perfectly honest, all those plants have come from 4 of 5 members on this forum (along with probably 20 others that I could not keep alive)


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## ReeferRusso

Immortal1 said:


> Thank-you. I seem to remember saying pretty much the same thing when I first started - really nice to know what all the plants are called. And to be perfectly honest, all those plants have come from 4 of 5 members on this forum (along with probably 20 others that I could not keep alive)


I was unaware that you were keeping members of the forum alive. Remind me to never allow you to keep me alive! 

I could go through your journal to discover what substrate you're using or could simply ask you. After the comment above I guess I'll have to ask very nicely. Therefore, can you pretty please let me and all the other members who are still alive what substrate you're using?


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## rzn7z7

Immortal1 said:


> Another interesting development (experiment?) since my last post - I added diffusers to my Radion XR-15 freshwater lights.


Very cool! I have Radions, too, and look forward to your thoughts on how the diffusers work out

Meantime, your tank is looking great and I really appreciate the plant listing/lineup


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## Immortal1

rzn7z7 said:


> Very cool! I have Radions, too, and look forward to your thoughts on how the diffusers work out
> 
> Meantime, your tank is looking great and I really appreciate the plant listing/lineup


Interesting, was not sure anybody else was running these lights. 
Here is the start of the experiment. Because of the line of sight from the couch to the lights, I added these corrugated white plastic shields. I was intrigued at how the shields better reflected what the actual color of the light was vs what my eyes could see in the tank. In this picture, I pretty much made a crude frame to hold a piece of acrylic prism that I bought at Lowes.









I added this single diffuser to the right hand light on my 75g tank. Notice how the color on the corrugated white plastic shield looks different. This picture was actually taken 5 days after the diffuser was installed. Look at the back glass wall of the tank. Notice which side has the GDA and which side doesn't.









I eventually added diffusers to all 3 lights. The end result is pretty amazing. Much less GDA. Now, the real question is - less algae because of less overall light? less algae because the hot spots are diffused?
My guess is less overall intensity of light.
Here is what the diffuser looks like on the light. Not pretty, but for now it works. I eventually will have my friend with a 3D printer make something nice looking.


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## Immortal1

ReeferRusso said:


> I was unaware that you were keeping members of the forum alive. Remind me to never allow you to keep me alive!
> 
> I could go through your journal to discover what substrate you're using or could simply ask you. After the comment above I guess I'll have to ask very nicely. Therefore, can you pretty please let me and all the other members who are still alive what substrate you're using?


LOL - made me smile. 
5+ year old Eco Complete is what I am using. For all the complaints about being hard to plant in, I guess I have gotten used to it. I am also finding that I need to do more deep vacuuming of the substrate (getting pretty dirty down there).
Could the plants do better with something else - probably. 
I guess in the interest of the forum members that are still alive - I would assume they would send me something better so that I would not have to work so hard at keeping them alive ;-)


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## chayos00

I really like your clear diffuser idea!! Since I did the DIY on my LED lights, I've never really liked the thought of 4 hot spots across my tank, if I get time, I may have to do the same this weekend! 

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


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## KrangDog

Immortal1 said:


> I ended up “thinking” I was dosing my RO drum to 16ppm CaSO4 and 5ppm MgSO4 each time I did a water change. The method I was using to get to the 16 / 5 amount was to test the ppm TDS of the RO drum water after a fill up, then add enough CaSO4, MgSO4 and K2CO3 to get back to my target ppm TDS and 1dKH. (target ppm TDS value was based on dGH information supplied by Rotalabutterfly for Ca & Mg, then calculated out to an approximate ppm TDS which also included the ppm TDS of the actual RO water with nothing added).


You're way past this now, but I'm curious. Did you take into account the effect of the SO4 on TDS? I'm no chemist, but by my calcs, adding CaSO4 to give 16ppm Ca will also add 38ppm SO4, giving a total of 54ppm TDS total. The reading I've done suggests that sulfates contribute to our TDS amounts. Last time I remineralised my RO water, I tested TDS before and after the addition of CaSO4 and MgSO4 and the TDS readings seemed to include the SO4. I'm using a calibrated Apera TDS pen so trust the readings I'm getting. 

By the time I add 23ppm Ca, 8ppm Mg, 20ppm NO3, 4ppm PO4 and 40ppm K, my RO drum has gone from 4ppm to 185ppm. This might help to explain your issue.


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## Immortal1

Ok, judging by the posts above, it's been 3 months since I updated this thread - guess it's time  
I have a feeling some of you will like this update. A little background first - for atleast 4 years, probably 5 years I have had a Crinum calamistratum in my tank. In the past it has sent up a flower stalk, but it never flowered. Well on July 26 of this year I noticed a flower stalk had snuck it's way to the surface - and I didn't even notice. I wanted to post some progress pics here but figured it would be another disappointment.









Told my friend @Phil Edwards about it and he had his fingers crossed as well that it might flower. Well, things continued to progress nicely...

















Ok, just how tall is this thing going to get? Already doing much better than in the past. This next pic kinda gives you an idea of just how tall this is - The tank is a 21" tall 75g tank. Probably 3"+ of substrate in the back corner holding the plant in place. In the pic below I would guess there is 20" of tank showing and another 11-12" of flower stem above the top of the tank


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## Immortal1

Ok, so now there is hope of something happening 









Then on Wednesday 7-7-2021 at 5:15pm I got this picture. Notice the flower pod is very white and you can see the darker colored stamen inside.









3 hours later I looked up to see this !!!!









Holy Crap ! It flowered !!! Absolutely amazing. Possibly more amazing - there is a second flower starting to grow out of the original bud. Now, in the pic above, the orange stamen parts are straight. In the next pic taken a day later they are curved into little upside down U shapes and you can clearly see how much taller it is than the Radion light. FYI, the Radion light stand puts the bottom of the light 9" above the rim of the tank.









Moving forward to last nite 7/10/2021.... the second flower popped open


















Not holding my breath that the first flower will survive until the third flow shows up (yes, there is a 3rd flower starting to grow), but is would have been impressive to see all 3 at the same time!!!
Thanks for hanging in till the end of this post - I think that flower pic above was worth the wait


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## Plinkploop

😂 go onion flower!!


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## Greggz

That is very, very cool.

What a great looking flower!

Good pics capturing it too!


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## Phil Edwards

I love it!!!!


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## Immortal1

Been a little bit since I posted here so I figured it was time for a small update. If you look at the last pic in post #972 above you kinda get the feeling that my does not have much color - which at the time was fairly accurate. Lot of GDA where it did not belong (the plants). Well, that situation got worse with the arrival of BGA. Spent a ot of time with various chemical treatments and magic potions but did not get the results I was hoping for. 
Ended up doing some extensive filter maintenance on my FX4 - changed out the big block filters, and gave the Eheim Substrat Pro a through rinse with RO water.
Pulled most of the groups and gave them a nice 15 second H2O2 bath followed by a RO rinse.
Then did a lot of substrate vacuuming.
Then it was time for the secret weapon (this is a major assumption) - re-installed my oversized UV filter.
And probably my real secret weapon... 75% water change on Sunday and Wednesday for 2 weeks.

Kinda hard to get a good pic with the old cell phone due to the intense LED lighting, but, in the pic below the L. Rubin now has a nice brick red color (vs algae color),
The L. Atlantis is getting back it's nice yellowish orange color. The Nymphoides Taiwan is nice and lime green (not algae green), and in my eyes, the most notable change (but does not show up well in this pic) is the Ludwigia palustris "Super Red". 2 weeks ago it was basically a blue green color on every leaf - very sad.









In the pic below you can see 3 distinct shades of green (used to be just algae green - ick). Also of note, my Barclaya Longifolia Red spent about 2 months of being really unhappy. Lost all of the big leaves and the young leaves seemed to melt almost as fast as they grew in. Well, now I can say it is a LOT happier.


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## Immortal1

Might as well add a couple FTS just for fun. Hers and mine


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## somewhatshocked

How do you make that mixed Eco-Complete look so nice?

I always love it in your tanks and then hate it when I try to use it. Looks so natural in your photos.


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## Phil Edwards

Still loving the tanks, keep up the good work!


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## Immortal1

somewhatshocked said:


> How do you make that mixed Eco-Complete look so nice?
> 
> I always love it in your tanks and then hate it when I try to use it. Looks so natural in your photos.


Thanks for the complement. Don't really do too much extra other than a good vacuuming every month or so. 
What seems kinda funny to me - the Eco Complete photographs well with my cell phone. The plants - not always so much.


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