# Tired of my ADA AS degrading so fast



## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Is this AS, or AS II?


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

ADA AS I Ammazonia.


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Are you using amazonia II? It almost looks like detritus. 

Wish I could give you a clue as to what is going on. I'm blessed with super soft water here. I still use the original AS I that I started with in my 20 long from '07 and I sifted it/dried it before the last re-scape. I'm sure I lost a little doing that but its never flat broken down like that.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

MrJG said:


> Are you using amazonia II? It almost looks like detritus.
> 
> Wish I could give you a clue as to what is going on. I'm blessed with super soft water here. I still use the original AS I that I started with in my 20 long from '07 and I sifted it/dried it before the last re-scape. I'm sure I lost a little doing that but its never flat broken down like that.


It's AS I. It does look like detritus but then again what would anyone expect a dark brown clay substrate that has broken down into a powder/mud to look like on plants?


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## fshfanatic (Apr 20, 2006)

I had the same issue with my ADA Amazonia. I capped it with pool filter sand and that helped for a couple months and then it got bad again. I finally said screw it and trashed all of it. My water is extremely hard as well.. I think I read somewhere that ADA substrate actually breaks down in hard water. My friends that use RO dont have this issue. So it makes sense. I also had the same issue with BBA.


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Wonder if the substrate that GLA is now carrying has a better track record with hard water...


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Supposedly AS II works better in hard water


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

I actually was corresponding with Orlando about the new subs he has the last time I freaked out about this. I thought the only difference between I and II was that it had less nutrients causing less ammonia spike and less clouding. My first stint with ADA AS was with II and this was around the time of the bad batches and that was what I attributed this (it braking down) to and Jeff from ADG was more then nice and gave me a free bag of ADA AS I.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

fshfanatic said:


> I had the same issue with my ADA Amazonia. I capped it with pool filter sand and that helped for a couple months and then it got bad again. I finally said screw it and trashed all of it. My water is extremely hard as well.. I think I read somewhere that ADA substrate actually breaks down in hard water. My friends that use RO dont have this issue. So it makes sense. I also had the same issue with BBA.


I wonder what causes this? You would think there would be more instances of this issue then since the AS is used to make hard water more habitable for these soft water sp.


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## jgb77 (Dec 13, 2006)

Sort of breaking it down and having to start over with a new substrate, you could consider trying taking out your plants/fish and give it a good vacuum cleaning. Maybe even do the vacuuming in sections over the course of a few weeks.
I've had my Amazonia for about 18+ months I think now and I've been able to keep it from doing this, but I also give it a good vac every so often. I also use RO water so my experience may be different then using harder water like you have.
John


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

I vacuum it lightly every week with my water changes. I could try to do more but this always ends up in me having to replace the substrate I sucked out after a few months so it kind of gets me to the same spot.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

bsmith said:


> ADA AS I Ammazonia.


Just lightly and gently vacuum it like you might sand in a fish only tank, do this for 1/4 of the tank and replant each water change. Do say 2x a week 50%.

I've reused my ADA As 3x now.
About 3 years old and keep it fluffy and clean.
The issue you are having are not related to the sediment from the looks of things. KH and CO2 more than likely.



Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

I've had a similar problem and I usually do a vacuum on the substrate lightly. Eventually the detritus will be gone and you'll be left with the aqua soil.


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## dhavoc (May 4, 2006)

i have moderately hard water and my AS1 from 2006 is still fine, it lacks nutrients now, and i need to dose more liquid and plant tabs, but it hasnt broken down like yours. i have had that breakdown with AS2 and while i like how it doesnt have as extreme ammonia spike and zero tea colored water ala AS1, it doesnt seem to last at all, even in tanks where i use only RO. and i have gone thru maybe 6-8 bags purchased at different times of the year and from different stores.

i have been using the GLA AZOO soils on a test basis for a couple of months now in my restarted CRS tank and it has ZERO ammonia release, and water was clear from day one. cloudy water from adding it to the tank at startup (2 bags in a 20L), was gone by the next morning with no water changes. i still left it for a month before adding test shrimp but couldnt measure any ammonia. from experience though, it seems to lack some nutrient, some plants do great, while others that can survive anything yellow and stunt. i dont dose as this is a crs tank ,but it does have a CA 2x24w t5ho fixture and presurized co2. if you dose water column, you should be fine though. it holds up pretty well and i havent had any of the breakdown i experienced with AS2. i would try a bag and see how it works with your water then decide if you want to go that route. to my eyes, it looks identical to AS1. though for my planted tanks, i will still use AS1, the azoo is for my soft water invert tanks.


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## greenknight (Mar 3, 2010)

I'm a noob, but I dont get it why people use AS when they can ge the same look with
organic potting soil topped off with black gravel (onyx..etc) and the soil can last you
for 10 years or so.


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## captain_bu (Oct 20, 2007)

Black gravel does not look like aquasoil and as you uproot old plants or plant new ones it will mix in with your potting soil. Some potting soils can also contain urea which you don't want in your tank meaning you have to research and chose a product carefully.

People have different motivations for using aquasoil but the main one is that it grows plants really well... the size of the grains facilitate a really good root structure and the product initially is loaded with nutrients. If you live in an area where the water is hard aquasoil will help to soften it. There are lots of different (and good) substrate choices but aquasoil is one of the best "straight out of the bag" solutions available.


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## greenknight (Mar 3, 2010)

captain_bu said:


> Black gravel does not look like aquasoil and as you uproot old plants or plant new ones it will mix in with your potting soil. Some potting soils can also contain urea which you don't want in your tank meaning you have to research and chose a product carefully.
> 
> People have different motivations for using aquasoil but the main one is that it grows plants really well... the size of the grains facilitate a really good root structure and the product initially is loaded with nutrients. If you live in an area where the water is hard aquasoil will help to soften it. There are lots of different (and good) substrate choices but aquasoil is one of the best "straight out of the bag" solutions available.


Regular organic soil without additives will not run out of nutrients for
a decade or more.,. fish food and waste keeps it going...

I understand feeding the fish... but why should anyone "feed" the substrate... it seems counter-intuitive to make artificial soil when 
nature works best ?


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## captain_bu (Oct 20, 2007)

greenknight said:


> Regular organic soil without additives will not run out of nutrients for
> a decade or more.,. fish food and waste keeps it going...


What are you basing this 10 year claim on? I certainly cannot grow a potted plant for ten years in the same soil without adding nutrients and even adding nutrients the soil breaks down and impacts over time at which point it needs to be replaced to promote better root growth.

Aquasoil also absorbs nutrients out of the water column which replenish it the same way your top soil will get replenished if you are dosing the water column or feeding livestock. 

It is advantageous to your plants to provide nutrients in both the substrate and the water column, one backs up the other. Using either top soil or aquasoil will provide substrate nutrients.

Aquasoil is not artificial soil, it is all organic compounds with a healthy amount of peat, the product is formulated to have a grain size that facilitates rooting and prevents impaction. As pointed out already it is just one of many available options but it works really well.


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## greenknight (Mar 3, 2010)

I am in now way condemning use of aqua-soil or any other susbtrate. Its true that
fertilizers are necessary for regular soil also as time goes on..

I guess I'm comparing use of aqua-soil to Organic soil used in a Natural Planted Tank,
where you only top off the water..and fish food and waste serves as fertilizer, thus
the nutrients never run out.

Pros and cons to each method.. matter of personal preference


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## greenknight (Mar 3, 2010)

I forgot to ask.. how is aqua-soil made ? What are the ingredients ..process ?


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## chuukus (Jun 17, 2008)

I have the same issues with my aquasoil breaking down. I think it has to do with bad batches because some of my tanks are fine and the aquasoil looks great but in others it turns to mud. But when I bought my aquasoil it was verry cold and the outer bags in the box froze insulating the inner bag. Im wondering if the frozen aquasoil is the reason for it breaking down? So may be i had all good bags.


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## boink (Nov 27, 2006)

I have 5 year old aquasoil that is probably just about at its end. It is being used in my shrimp tank and still growing plants fine. It is starting to turn to dust though.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

greenknight said:


> I'm a noob, but I dont get it why people use AS when they can ge the same look with
> organic potting soil topped off with black gravel (onyx..etc) and the soil can last you
> for 10 years or so.


So does ADA AS

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

captain_bu said:


> Black gravel does not look like aquasoil and as you uproot old plants or plant new ones it will mix in with your potting soil. Some potting soils can also contain urea which you don't want in your tank meaning you have to research and chose a product carefully.
> 
> People have different motivations for using aquasoil but the main one is that it grows plants really well... the size of the grains facilitate a really good root structure and the product initially is loaded with nutrients. If you live in an area where the water is hard aquasoil will help to soften it. There are lots of different (and good) substrate choices but aquasoil is one of the best "straight out of the bag" solutions available.


the urea does not matter much.
ADA As is loaded with NH4, which urea quickly turns to in water.

After 1-2 months, both are similar........

I do agree with the rest however

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

greenknight said:


> I forgot to ask.. how is aqua-soil made ? What are the ingredients ..process ?


Clay, dirt and perhaps some NH4, rolled and screened for the sizes.

Delta clay in Ca is the same type of thing, minus the NH4.

Over time, the Clay loses mostly N, so you need to add KNO3 as time goes on.
Many wetland clays soils are N limited.

They have lots of everything else however.

So you get 10 years etc out of clays like these, more than you might for topsoils unless they are mostly clays as well.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

plantbrain said:


> Clay, dirt and perhaps some NH4, rolled and screened for the sizes.
> 
> Delta clay in Ca is the same type of thing, minus the NH4.
> 
> ...


I believe the NH4 is caused by the peat in the AS.
I know you've studied AS a lot. Am I correct?


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## greenknight (Mar 3, 2010)

*thanks for the clarification..*



plantbrain said:


> Clay, dirt and perhaps some NH4, rolled and screened for the sizes.
> 
> Delta clay in Ca is the same type of thing, minus the NH4.
> 
> ...


 Nice.. I didn't know that .. its my first time trying ut planted tanks and I
chose to use Organic potting soil, so should I have mixed in some clay
for better results ?


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## BruceWatts (Feb 27, 2008)

I wish i would have seen this post as I inherited some used AS when I bought some plants. I asked if it should be rinsed and got a no for an answer. Now after 5 days of 50% water changes I can see about two inches into the tank. Luckily it was a new tank setup so it has no fish or plants. I will probably chuck it soon if things don't improve.

Bruce


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

CL said:


> I believe the NH4 is caused by the peat in the AS.
> I know you've studied AS a lot. Am I correct?


No and yes.

Peat just lowers the pH.


Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

greenknight said:


> Nice.. I didn't know that .. its my first time trying ut planted tanks and I
> chose to use Organic potting soil, so should I have mixed in some clay
> for better results ?


Naw, they both work pretty well, just clays are less mess I think and last a little longer. Most will NOT tell a difference over a 1-2 years time frame.
You are fine, do not sweat it. DIY methods vs brand name stuff etc.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

BruceWatts said:


> I wish i would have seen this post as I inherited some used AS when I bought some plants. I asked if it should be rinsed and got a no for an answer. Now after 5 days of 50% water changes I can see about two inches into the tank. Luckily it was a new tank setup so it has no fish or plants. I will probably chuck it soon if things don't improve.
> 
> Bruce


Old ADA AS or new?

Old I can see why, but deep vacuum it like you would sand.
Slow and careful. It'll settle down.

Add lots of plants.
Mature filters help a lot.

You can deep vacuum ADA AS easy, slowly, but easily, like sand.
I guess scardy cats prefer fear rather than simply trying it, you are NOT losing anything other than the fines. Larger grains are still there.
They still have nutrients etc.

I guess if you use powersand and all the other marketed junk on the bottom base layer, I never do and have not found any difference NOT using those, just the ADA AS alone.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## BruceWatts (Feb 27, 2008)

Hey Tom

It was used AS so I don't know what kind. I bought all the plants from someone's tank and he threw in the AS and 9 fish as he was going SW. Oddly enough I just did some rescaping and ended up with probably twice as many plants as I needed so buying a bunch of new plants seemed rather stupid. But hey it was a good deal.

I'll try to vacuum and add some plants as I have a hard time throwing things away .

Bruce


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