# Miracle grow organic



## ktownhero (Mar 21, 2011)

I'm not sure what you are trying to ask.


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## Reginald2 (Mar 10, 2009)

My bag looked like a bunch of mulch and sticks ig not much dirt. I'm not sure how to make that much clearer.


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## Loop (Jan 8, 2011)

Pretty clear to me Mine had some sticks, not what I would call alot though. The rest seems kind of like finely ground mulch maybe, but ground to the point of it being a dirt consistency. Only seemed like it was mulch because it more light and airy than soil. I haven't used it yet though. Dreading tearing everything apart to start over.


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## Reginald2 (Mar 10, 2009)

That sounds about like mine, most of it seems to be dime-sized. I would say that 80% or so is wood-looking material. I've used dirt before, but screened it beforehand. This time I just threw it in. We'll see.

I put of re-doing this tank for a long time. It's pretty much a pain, not going to lie.


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## Loop (Jan 8, 2011)

Good luck. Hope it does well for yaroud:


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Reginald2 said:


> That sounds about like mine, most of it seems to be dime-sized. I would say that 80% or so is wood-looking material. I've used dirt before, but screened it beforehand. This time I just threw it in. We'll see.
> 
> I put of re-doing this tank for a long time. It's pretty much a pain, not going to lie.


Yep that's what mine looked like too. 

It's why you for sure need to use something to cap it, to hold it down.

You'll still get some floaters and net that out for a day or two, but after that I never see any floating any more.


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## ktownhero (Mar 21, 2011)

Reginald2 said:


> My bag looked like a bunch of mulch and sticks ig not much dirt. I'm not sure how to make that much clearer.


Well, that's not what you wrote in the OP.

But yeah it's not a processed potting soil so it's kind of raw, so-to-speak. Cap it off with some sand and you'll be fine.


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## kamikazi (Sep 3, 2010)

I might use this when I redo my 10 gallon, how thick of a cap should one use?


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

kamikazi said:


> I might use this when I redo my 10 gallon, how thick of a cap should one use?


soil should be 1" to 1 1/2" max and with sand as a cap I think 1/2" to 1" but not sure as I used Flourite original both times, at 1 1/2" thick on the cap and the second tank 1/2" sand and 1" Flourite.


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## Reginald2 (Mar 10, 2009)

Kamikazi I can't say about the cap, but I've got about 3/4 of an inch of eco-complete on top. Hopefully that'll work out.

Thanks loop and laural for the input. I got a little nervous the next day and wondered if I had already messed up.

I wonder how long it takes for much to break down underwater.


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## Reginald2 (Mar 10, 2009)

Here is a little fun something extra that apparently came with the dirt. YouTube video

The haze is eco-complete settling. Does this mean I need more cap?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Hey- free fish food! :hihi:

My tank was hazy for a few days- I think the MG triggers a bacteria bloom?

Haven't had any issues with cloudy water past the first few days, though.


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## jgmbosnia1 (Oct 18, 2010)

It worked great for me. I just took out the larger sticks. I laid down abount an inch (wet) and put about 2-3 inches of EC on top. I had a little bit of tanin leach into the water. After two water changes my water is crystal clear and all of my water perameters are well within check. Hopefully I'll be able to see the benefits of the MG once my larger palnts get some good root structure to that depth......Or is MG just good for keeping the pH lower then what it would be without it?


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## sjuapseorn (Feb 17, 2011)

I like MG... Well I liked it until the 1st time I pulled something out of my tank...
Now I'm not such a big fan of the Miracle Grow... 

If you want to see what happens when you rescape look at the last post/pics on my Finnex Thread

If you disturb the cap at all you will get A LOT of floaty crap coming up. 

It's a pain in the you know what to try and pick all of that junk out because it seems to find ways to squirt out of the net or out of your fingers.. 

SJ


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Really? I've done some pretty major moving stuff around and almost never get anything floating at all.

I didn't go back and read your journal to see how long it had been set up before you moved it, though- maybe yours didn't have enough time to soak?

Also - I wet mine down really well (and pat it to help ensure the water gets distributed all around) before adding the cap layer, and I think that helps hold it in place a bit better.


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## Loop (Jan 8, 2011)

I think I'll be trying to let mine sit submerged in a bucket for a few days before I add put it in the tank. Hopefully it's good and waterlogged by the time I get ready to use it and I get minimal floaters.


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## Reginald2 (Mar 10, 2009)

Most of my tanks have been dirt. It seems, to me, to be a good idea to use a dark substrate to cap. I've always used thin caps though. I can see that making a big difference. 

I had a sand substrate once and ended up ripping it out, cause I couldn't get it nice and clean.


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## WaterLogged (Feb 2, 2011)

I used this stuff in my 10 gallon with a play sand cap. I used about 1/2" of MG in the front slopped to about 3" in the back capped with 1" of sand.

Well... Yesterday I was looking at the tank and noticed these weird bumps in the substrate. It looked like "hills" everywhere about the size of apples. I decided to poke one of them and a volcano of bubbles erupted. Not small bubbles either. GIANT FIST SIZED BUBBLES. It was like the substrate was boiling. Of course the bubbles pulled up crap loads of the MG and now its floating everywhere...

After this happened I started poking around all over the tank and huge bubbles were exploding from everywhere I poked.

I have no idea what is going on. The tank has only been set up abut 3 weeks so I cant see how things could be rotting that fast and producing THAT MUCH gas. I could have made the MG a little bit wetter before capping but it was really damp and there is also no way that THAT MUCH air could have been trapped.

I dont really know what to do.

When I first added the MG to the tank I just dumped it in, added water, let it soak, patted it down and capped it with sand.

Anyone?


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## RobertPlant (Mar 9, 2011)

*re:bubbles*



WaterLogged said:


> I used this stuff in my 10 gallon with a play sand cap. I used about 1/2" of MG in the front slopped to about 3" in the back capped with 1" of sand.
> 
> Well... Yesterday I was looking at the tank and noticed these weird bumps in the substrate. It looked like "hills" everywhere about the size of apples. I decided to poke one of them and a volcano of bubbles erupted. Not small bubbles either. GIANT FIST SIZED BUBBLES. It was like the substrate was boiling. Of course the bubbles pulled up crap loads of the MG and now its floating everywhere...
> 
> ...


http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/substrate/85753-el-natural-gas-substrate.html


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## WaterLogged (Feb 2, 2011)

diggerbarnz said:


> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/substrate/85753-el-natural-gas-substrate.html


Wowza! I guess 3 weeks is enough time for gas to build up! Thanks for the link! It was not "stank" so that's good.


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## Granny (Feb 23, 2011)

Reginald2 said:


> Here is a little fun something extra that apparently came with the dirt. YouTube video?


Good video! Tubifex worms. Kinda fun to watch a hungry momma guppy pull one up. Kinda like a robin pulling a nightcrawler out of the ground  That's just the tiny tip of their tails sticking up. They are a couple or more inches long when you pull them out. 

I worked really hard getting rid of them in a tank and regretted messing the tank up and having to pretty much start it over when I realized that in the other tank, time, and hungry fish, pretty much took care of them on their own. They come and go. Haven't seen any for a long time now.


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

Soil should be kept to a 1 or 1 1/2" layer under the cap.
Even then gas will build up but not as dramatically.


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

OP, your thread title is a great hook for those thinking about doing a dirt tank. 
I'm re-posting this over here hoping more folks will see this when thinking about starting a dirt tank. 
In my opinion and experiences there are tradeoffs to consider.

More people seem to be deciding on dirt tanks rather than waiting for the soil to be mineralized, or going with dosing EI, high light and CO2 lately. I think this is cool roud:.
Hopefully most are reading enough information first and thinking it through.

Two HUGE considerations doing this.
Using 'natural' soils READ the contents on your bag of dirt! I know it contains dirt,,, (duh),,, 
but NO COW POO! Small amounts of chicken poo can work but no! no! moo! moo! :smile:. 
Also remember PLZ that while natural tanks (dirt base) and seeded filters can be stocked from day one go lightly with your first stocking list. Dirt goes through changes going from dry to saturated (submerged) and the rate of break down on the organics changes too. Sometimes it can be more than the tank and fish can handle. 
For the first couple of months whether you want to or not test your water. Every couple of days and be ready to change it if the soil burps (it can happen). You might have a tank like mine that ran straight through the issues quickly and was trouble free from then on. Lots of plants (including floaters), no hard scape to trap the soil gases, control the light (a big key to dodging algae), watch things and let the tank settle (month maybe two). The capping material needs to be small enough to contain the soil yet allow the gas exchange to occur. 

That's the first trade off for not waiting for the dirt to finish the mineralization process. Attention starting out, more or less high maintenance in the beginning., Things can get busy if a bump in water parameters occurs. All the organic material and the bacteria that chew through it do give you free CO2 for a period of time. :bounce: 

The second major trade off you make is that rooted plants are there to stay. Removing plants with a good root structure is a HUGE PITA. 
I had an Amazon Sword that had to go. Cutting around the root ball directly under it I killed the plant taking it out and left all the root runners in place. Thinning a field of crypts means a water change and repairing the cap adding more material. Soil tanks are a set it and forget it type of tanking (imo). If you like to change things around, re-scape, swap out plants then NPT is not for you. If you want to top off the tank when the water gets low, trim to make room for the fish to swim and not dose for months it might be what your looking for.


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## JasonG75 (Mar 1, 2011)

Thanks wkndracer, 

I am in the process of starting stage 1 of a dirted tank tonight. I am opening the bag so they care air out some and break up any large pieces I come across. Over the weekend I plan to apply the dirt and a cap and filing the tank JUST to the cap. Next week I plan and hope to make a dry run on glosso and HC.

http://www.youtube.com./user/JasonsTank


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## psalm18.2 (Oct 16, 2010)

I'm glad I read this as I have some stink in my water. I set up my 29G Miracle Gro Organic soil based with sand on top tank on 3/19/11. I did a 50% water change on 3/23 then got real sick and have neglected the tank. Today 3/31 I noticed a smell so I changed 50% of the water while I have the energy to do so. I did notice a swamp like smell. What does this mean? I did poke the soil and got bubbles. I'm also noticing my ammonia levels are up. I know this can be normal in the 1st month. What does the smell mean? Is this bad?
Also, I set up a dirt/sand tank in my 5G on 3/23 and today noticed very yellow water. I did a 50% water change and it cleared a bit. What caused this? Thanks.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Ammonia readings may just be normal tank cycling unless you did something to cycle the tank (like an established filter, mulm under the substrate, etc).

Mine bubbles all the time- I think it's just normal organic decomp and mostly CO2. My bubbles don't smell, though... so if you're getting a bad sulphur-y smell it may be more cause for concern (hydrogen sulfide). Poking through it periodically with a stick should help.

Yellow color is usually tannins. Either from driftwood or possibly from the Miracle Gro. I keep Purigen in my filters, so that takes care of any tannins in my tanks. Fresh carbon and lots of water changes are alternate solutions.


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## psalm18.2 (Oct 16, 2010)

Thanks. I have not been poking reguraly due to being sick, so that's probably what happened. I only got the tannins effect in the 5g but I like it. I'm hoping in the long run the soil bottom will really benefit the plants.


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## Reginald2 (Mar 10, 2009)

I'm a fan of dirt tanks, it just seems right to me. I have been running the dirt through a nice screen, but I got lazy on this one and just opened the bag and plopped it in.

Speaking of, how do you tell if you've got chicken or cow crap? Also thanks for all the info wkndracer.

I'm trying the dry start method with this one and some HC. I'm hoping this helps me forgo a little of the new dirt tank syndrome. I'm aiming for ~4 wks of boggy conditions to get this HC rooted. If I remember I'll drop a picture in here of the soil as it was.


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

cow manure is much "grassier"/fibrous. chicken crap looks like... well, bird crap.


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## Reginald2 (Mar 10, 2009)

macclellan said:


> cow manure is much "grassier"/fibrous. chicken crap looks like... well, bird crap.


I should probably take this time to inform everyone that the closest I've been to the country is the suburbs. I don't think I saw any bird poop in it though. I dropped a pic in the first post. I'd be happy for second opinions (I'm not sure if mine counts as one lol).

Also I added a picture to the first post.


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

Memphis has no pigeons?!?


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## Reginald2 (Mar 10, 2009)

Maybe I should go throw this on my car so I can recognize poo in its natural habitat.


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## sjuapseorn (Feb 17, 2011)

lol!

In my 29g I did about 1" of MG in the center 3" of the tank only.. the rest is CaribSea white and black super naturals. I still get tiny bubbles randomly but no big pain to move things.. I figure the decomp of the middle area will spread to the rest of the tank. Plus just started dosing that tank with PFertz NPK & Micros 3x a week on M.W.F.

My 4g Finnex only has a few stems and a banana plant in the substrate now so hopefully I won't have to move anything else.. it has about a 2" base(packed down)of MG with a 1.5-2"cap of CaribSea super Naturals Black. the rest of the tank is just Driftwood, a big piece of Shale Rock, and Flame Moss. (with some straggler Java and some other type)

Once I did a massive 99% waterchange my tank is alot better.. Still have some random floaty stuff that evades me when I go to pick it out but I'll eventually get it all out.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Reginald2 said:


> Maybe I should go throw this on my car so I can recognize poo in its natural habitat.


ROFL!!!

I personally would be leery of using most other soils without mineralizing them first.

Miracle Gro is the only one I've used "raw" so can vouch that it works fine that way.


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