# My fight against algae.



## Little Soprano (Mar 13, 2014)

So ever since I upgraded to 2 T5HO 54 watt bulbs on my 40gal long, I've been really losing the fight against algae. The only weird thing though is all my plants are growing like crazy. Mostly stem plants. My wisteria I end up having to hack down to basically it's roots, and in two weeks time it's bending over at the top of the water line as it hits the glass lids. My plants are growing like mad, but I've had just about every type of algae you could possibly imagine. 

So I figure this thread is going to be my logging my fight against algae. 

My goal: stop the insane amount of algae growth in my tank and eventually get back to an 8 hour photoperiod.

Tank stats:
AGA 40 gal long 48" x 12" x 16"
Penguin Biowheel 200 (left side)
UGV fed by an Aquaclear 802 on the right side of the tank. 
Standard gravel with a few root tabs near the plants
2 Sunblaster 54 Watt 6500K T5HOs that have been screwed into my old T8 light hood, no fancy reflectors.
Blueprint CO2 Regulaltor, 20lb CO2 tank, fed into a diffuser that is currently sitting underneath the HOB, which blows the CO2 around quite well.
Currently at 3BPS 

Plants:
Wysteria
Elodea
Rotala
Ludwigia Repens
Rotala Indica
And a few other stem plants I don't know the names of 
Anubias (unknown sp.)
Along with a couple more plants which I don't know the names of that I purchased when I first got into planted tanks
And some willow moss too.

Fauna:
Rainbow Shark
Chinese Algae Eater
6 Black Skirt Tetras(GLOfish version)
8 Danios (3 GLOfish ones, and the rest regular zebras)
Dwarf CPO-bane of my existence
Nerite and Bladder Snails

My bamboo shrimp have been moved to my 10 gal along with my recovering neon, picked up 4 more neon tetras currently in quarantine, once they have been ruled good to go, they along with my current neon are moving back to the 40 gal long.

I currently do anywhere from a 50 up to a 75% water change a week. And I usually dose Seachem's Aquavitro line.

I talked to my LFS owner who has a beautiful planted display tank and I'm going to be following his advice and see how it goes. When I got my water tested and also tested my water myself yesterday, my nitrates were at 0 strangely enough, even though the water change was done on Thursday, so nitrates is defintely not the problem. 

His advice to me was to stop the fertilizers completely right now, and start with getting my CO2 up to the highest level I can without causing my fish stress. They currently are showing no stress at all, and my plants have been pearling the last few days. I was using the Ista Water Plant system which was so expensive I had to keep my CO2 levels down to keep from running out of money in a week. 

His advice was once I get my CO2 levels up to a good level, to simply just watch the plants and how they look and start to dose fertilizers when they show signs that they need it, and to build my fertilizing schedule that way, instead of just following Seachem's fert plan on their website. Hopefully with less excessive nutrients in the water along with increased CO2 levels, I should be able to get my algae under control! My plants currently have been putting out healthy leaves and growth, only to be swamped by staghorn, and green hair algae (it has a rough texture to it not soft texture). I also have been getting GSA on my glass more so then usual and my filter ends up getting clogged by the algae too. 

My bad plants I end up hacking up to get rid of the algae, and my Anubias gets far too many H2O2 dips. 

I'm going to be updating this thread every week or so, though he was right in saying that it could take a few weeks to see results and for things to balance out. I don't overfeed my fish either (they get a small pinch thats gone in 2-3 minutes every other day), and having 0 nitrates even only 3 days after a water change, is bizarre to me. But aside from my Anubias, which I don't know if it's gonna make it, I'm going to watch my plants and see what they tell me they need, and hopefully solve my algae problem for good. 

I know that the elodea and moss are in pretty rough shape and that I should do a full tank H2O2 treatment but I worry about my Rainbow Shark as he's not only sensitive to most tank changes (he was pretty pale the first few days of my new CO2 system, and if I miss a water change he's not happy) but he's also an old fart, so if I can avoid stressing my fish, that would be ideal.

Pictures:

































































Any advice anyone has or tips are greatly appreciated. Also the one plant thats being plagued by black algae, needs an H2O2 treatment, but it's so completely rooted in the gravel, I can't get it to come out LOL.


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## Krispyplants (Apr 15, 2014)

How long do you keep your lights on. Do you dose any fertilizers? With high light and co2, you need more fertz "and" plants. Plants photosynthesis faster and grow faster. Plus without enough plants to take over the nutrients and light, algae will definitely swallow everything. If your tank barely has any water flow then algae will grow everywhere. Even on fish too if you don't watch out :angel: Also, get black substrate next time so algae won't be so visible on the substrate. Mines are bright too


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## Little Soprano (Mar 13, 2014)

My lights are on for 6 hours a day. 

Quote: I currently do anywhere from a 50 up to a 75% water change a week. And I usually dose Seachem's Aquavitro line.

The water flow in my tank is very strong. 

The tank has been running non stop for 9+ years, and I'm currently broke after upgrading CO2, so the hastle and expense of upgrading to black substrate is definitely not gonna happen anytime soon unless I win the lottery.


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

You have two ways to go: First, go to BML and look atthe picture of the "Dutch style" tank. First option...get that many plants. Second option...get a 2 bulb T8 fixture. That many plants means not able to see the back wall and if you look at it from the top...not able to see the bottom.
OK so perhaps there are a couple more.
Raise the light up till it is 30" from the table/stand that the tank is on...more distance than from the light to the substrate now.
Whatever that distance is..double that to start and I would add 4 more inches if you do 8 hrs.


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## corn (Apr 28, 2014)

I have found great success with getting a UV sterilizer. I have even noticed a difference in amount of algae that grows on the glass (has grown much slower). The UV sterilizer kills the algae spores to help control the spread of algae.


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## Krispyplants (Apr 15, 2014)

I know what you mean. My 50 gallon cost me at least 2 grand to set up. I wanted the best of the best when I cashed in my income tax. roud: I don't regret it one bit but co2 can be a problem too. If your co2 level is not steady, that can really help algae grow. You must find the balance of co2 with timers. The higher the light, the more co2 and fertz are needed mainly. If you toss in more plants, I can bet that you'll have less algae. My tank used to be heavily infested but ever since I filled up the gaps with more plants, my tank is looking way cleaner. Water quality is not always the issue. "high" light is for heavily planted tanks. There isn't really any way around that unless you can raise your light up more. You can also try turning off one of your light bulb and see how a single one holds up for a week or two. You may be surprised.


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## Krispyplants (Apr 15, 2014)

corn said:


> I have found great success with getting a UV sterilizer. I have even noticed a difference in amount of algae that grows on the glass (has grown much slower). The UV sterilizer kills the algae spores to help control the spread of algae.


 
If the algae don't pass through the sterilizer then the algae will remain growing. Plus this has more to do with understanding the problem instead of always trying to find ways to deal with the outcome of not understanding.


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## Little Soprano (Mar 13, 2014)

Yeah I do think fluxuating CO2 levels was a big part of it. Having those cartridges that ran out every 2 days was as sucky as sucky can get, then back to Petco to buy another 10 dollars worth of CO2 that runs out in 2 days. On top of it it was so finicky I ended up having to leave it on 24/7 because otherwise I'd sit there for an hour getting the flow right. Now the new regulator is on a timer, where it comes on 1 hour before the lights turn on and shuts off 1 hour before the lights turn on, that along with also having more CO2 in the water I hope will help. I've never seen plants really truly pearl before and the last few days they have been starting to pearl, and man does it put a smile on my face. 

I've been turning the CO2 up 1 bps every 2 days or so, but didn't yesterday since I wasn't around to keep an eye on my fish, and I don't want to come home to a bunch of dead fishies. As I get more money again (on top of it all my puppy just had a 1500 dollar surgery and needs another one in three months, so tight on cash), I plan on getting more stem plants as well. My LFS owner said if I don't see much of a difference with increased CO2 levels to come and grab a handful of duckweed out of his display tank and see how fast it grows. If it explodes pretty fast, then there's most likely an excessive nutrient level in the tank, and we can go from there. I did dose some nitrates this morning just because having literally 0 nitrates (both my brand new API test kit and the fish store's testing equipment said I have 0) in a planted tank is kind of weird. There are more plants in there then you can see. There are a lot along the back of the tank that have gotten hacked up due to algae taking them over, but normally in two weeks the little clippings have grown pretty high up. 

Are there any good nutrient sucking plants that you guys can recommend? My LFS got in a handful of stem plants Rotala Indica in for me and I bought all 20 stems for 3 bucks (love them.). I am thinking about unplugging one of the lights, it's defintely a consideration, or even using the spare T8 hood behind the tank, though I think it's only 36" long LOL. 

I've only had the CO2 in since Thursday though, so I think I want to first see what happens once I get it up to the highest level I can, in regards to algae growth. The plants pearling is a good sign isn't it? There's strings of bubbles coming up from almost all of them.


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## Little Soprano (Mar 13, 2014)

Krispyplants said:


> If the algae don't pass through the sterilizer then the algae will remain growing. Plus this has more to do with understanding the problem instead of always trying to find ways to deal with the outcome of not understanding.


Yeah thats what I mostly want to do. I can always just keep removing tons of algae every water change, but whats the fun in that lol? I'd rather figure out the source of the problem and correct it, then constantly having to spend 6 hours every sunday removing algae. 

My 10 gallon is as low maintenance as low maintenance can get, with no issues, yet the 40 gallon long is driving me nuts.


I do also have an extra powerhead I can use, but as you can see by the rotala on the left side of the tank bending, I have quite a current going in my tank. The Penguin filters are strong as hell.


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## Little Soprano (Mar 13, 2014)

Also if it matters at all, I can dose phosphates in the morning (I normally dose right before lights come on), and if I test at the end of the lighting period, they are gone, at 0ppm. So I'm at a bit of a loss lol.


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

The bubbles can be misleading. When the Oxygen level is normal or even high, the bubbles can be on everything but mostly the plant leaves. Really this only says that the Oxygen level is too high for any more to dissolve in the water.
But when a stream of bubbles is actually coming from a plant it is that plant giving
off Oxygen AS IT GROWS.


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## Little Soprano (Mar 13, 2014)

Raymond S. said:


> The bubbles can be misleading. When the Oxygen level is normal or even high, the bubbles can be on everything but mostly the plant leaves. Really this only says that the Oxygen level is too high for any more to dissolve in the water.
> But when a stream of bubbles is actually coming from a plant it is that plant giving
> off Oxygen AS IT GROWS.


Yeah thats where the oxygen is coming from. You can look at the plants up close and see bubbles slowly growing on some of the leaves and being released, and then on other plants there's constant streams coming from their leaves. It's mildly amusing watching the fish chase the bubbles.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

Do you by any chance have a pic of your tank before you added the T5HO?


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## Little Soprano (Mar 13, 2014)

Here's the first picture a few weeks after I put plants in. Ignore the bamboo it was removed when I learned that it was not an aquatic plant, thanks petco lol.


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## Dzrtman (Mar 4, 2014)

Little Soprano said:


> Are there any good nutrient sucking plants that you guys can recommend?


Floating plants and stem plants that have grown above the water are good at competing with algae.

However, I think reducing the intensity of your light is also necessary.

Good luck!


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## Krispyplants (Apr 15, 2014)

Little Soprano said:


> Here's the first picture a few weeks after I put plants in. Ignore the bamboo it was removed when I learned that it was not an aquatic plant, thanks petco lol.



I would have went with the looks besides growth roud:


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## Little Soprano (Mar 13, 2014)

Krispyplants said:


> I would have went with the looks besides growth roud:


I actually love how it used to look with the old 6500K T8 but we wanted to expand what we could grow. I do think its a good learning experiment. Once all this algae is gone, should be able to do what I really want to do with the tank.


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

right off the top, you mention your nitrates being 0 when tested and then say this is not the problem. I believe this is part of the problem.

When nitrates have been sucked out and none are left the plants will suffer, this gives algae like BBA and other a good chance to take over. 

You also say that about phosphates. These need to be there in order to prevent deficiencies.

I would dose kno3 at the minimum. you probably are low on potassium as well. kno3 will bump your nitrates and potassium to levels to ensure no deficiencies.


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## Little Soprano (Mar 13, 2014)

philipraposo1982 said:


> right off the top, you mention your nitrates being 0 when tested and then say this is not the problem. I believe this is part of the problem.
> 
> When nitrates have been sucked out and none are left the plants will suffer, this gives algae like BBA and other a good chance to take over.
> 
> ...


See now I never knew that about 0 nitrates causing BBA. I have been dosing nitrates since they are at 0, but I always figured that excess nitrates could cause algae as well.

I use Seachem's Aquavitro dechlorinator which is like prime but also adds potassium to the water, but I should probably start dosing more phosphates again as well. Though on the positive side of things, no new algae growth since the water change, which was on the 3rd. 

I increased the CO2 today, and the fish aren't showing any discomfort, which is an awesome sign! My plants have been pearling a lot, and watching the streams of air bubbles coming out of the new leaf thats growing on my Anubias is a wonderful sight! So I think inadequate+fluctuating CO2 levels was playing a part in my algae plagues.


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## Little Soprano (Mar 13, 2014)

Official Update #1: Did a large 75% water change today and cleaned up more of my plants of the old algae. The tank in general is looking VERY good. The plant growth with the addition of CO2 is dramatic. More leaves closer together, with reds coming out strong. I have my bubble count at around 6bps, and the fish aren't bothered at all. Might try and increase it a little bit more until I get to the point where the fish say no more. CO2 is cheaper then H202, so it can't hurt, I don't think anyway. Will post pictures once tank clears up a bit (just finished filling a few minutes ago).


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## Little Soprano (Mar 13, 2014)

I also would like to mention, while I don't have a low pressure gauge on this regulator (gasp), the needle valve is awesome on this regulator. My bubble count NEVER shifts, and also I notice the CO2 comes on nice and slow when the solenoid turns on instead of a big blast of CO2. Very nice regulator if you mind not having a low pressure gauge. I just use a ceramic diffuser, so I don't care too much.


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## awesometim1 (Oct 31, 2013)

Hydrogen peroxide spot treating seems to work well against all algae types...


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## Little Soprano (Mar 13, 2014)

awesometim1 said:


> Hydrogen peroxide spot treating seems to work well against all algae types...


Aside from the spiro, it does, but most of this has been trying to figure out WHY the algae has been occuring.

But as an update:

I think I finally won!!!! I have CO2 cranking pretty good, and my tank looks like a soda can with all the O2 bubbles coming off of my plants. I'm in the process right now of a HUGE water change. I'm also going to be removing all the plants/rocks and giving everything a big cleaning job. The rocks are all going to be scrubbed clean of the dead BBA, and my plants need lots of trimming.

So happy it's finally looking like a NICE planted tank. And to see all my plants recover so well is awesome 

Going to try and get some pictures tonight!


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## AquaGreenThumb (Jun 28, 2010)

Not sure if anyone mentioned this or asked yet but how is the flow of the water? not sure if penguin is strong enough to keep a good flow across the tank. Weak flow results in debris/waste staying stagnant causing algae to grow. Might want to invest in a powerhead or stronger canister filter if this is the case.


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## Little Soprano (Mar 13, 2014)

AquaGreenThumb said:


> Not sure if anyone mentioned this or asked yet but how is the flow of the water? not sure if penguin is strong enough to keep a good flow across the tank. Weak flow results in debris/waste staying stagnant causing algae to grow. Might want to invest in a powerhead or stronger canister filter if this is the case.


I have an Aquaclear 802 on the opposite end of the tank, and to be honest, my penguin 200 is pretty strong too. The plants do sway pretty well. I think the biggest problem was most definitely too much light, and fluxuating co2 levels.

I decided to do a bigger cleaning. And I am bleaching my rocks to kill off all the old BBA, so the tank currently looks terrible. I also finally hacked off all the dead parts of plants, and cut my stem plants in two (some into threes), as they were all bending over at the top of the tank. Once the rocks are ready to go back in, I'm going to more formally plant it now that I understand how to grow plants finally 

So happy no more algae!!!!!!


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## BoxxerBoyDrew (Oct 16, 2005)

You said you have a "UGV being used with the 802" on one side of the tank.

What is the UGV?

If it is a under gravel filter, then using root tabs with it would cause the ferts to be released into the tank water! That would cause tons of algae problems!!!

Hope you are able to get it solved and save your plants!!! 
Take Care,
Drew


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