# Rotala sunset



## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Hi all,
Just thought i should start a thread focusing on Ammania sulawesi, more commonly known as Rotala sunset. I haven't been able to find very much information about this plant (besides that it's "fussy"), so i'd like to share my experiences with it and hopefully some other people can chime in as well, since it can be a challenging plant to keep. 

I'm keeping my 6 stems in a 90g tank right now. It has a 4x54 watt Catalina Aquarium T5HO (individual reflectors, about 5" above water surface), ADA Amazonia I substrate, pressurized co2 (always around 6.4 pH), and EI dosing schedule as follows:
- Sunday: Water Change. 3/8 Tsp CSM+B, 1/8 Tsp 13% Fe (EDTA)
- Monday: 3/8 Tsp KNO3, 3/8 Tsp KH2PO4, 1/4 Tsp K2SO4
- Tuesday: 3/8 Tsp CSM+B, 1/8 Tsp 13% Fe (EDTA)
- Wednesday: 3/8 Tsp KNO3, 3/8 Tsp KH2PO4, 1/4 Tsp K2SO4
- Thursday: 3/8 Tsp CSM+B, 1/8 Tsp 13% Fe (EDTA)
- Friday: 3/8 Tsp KNO3, 3/8 Tsp KH2PO4, 1/4 Tsp K2SO4
- Saturday: Rest Day

Believe it or not, i do not test my water, but i'll let you know what the GH/KH is at a later time. I just use plain ole' Phoenix tap water. Water temp is around 78F.

I've found that micronutrients play a huge role in this plant's appearance. When you don't give it enough iron, it's much paler. I recently added iron root tabs, and they are much more red than before. I've noticed that the growth is more compact, but i'm not sure if this is caused by the extra iron or not.

This plant needs plenty of co2 and a decent amount of light to survive. The only real problem that i've experienced with my rotala sunset is sometimes the leaves curl. I have yet to figure out what causes this, but the iron root tabs seem to keep the leaves nice and straight. I've also noticed that it doesn't recover from being trimmed too well (somewhat like a tonina). It's best to trim the top growth above a new side shoot. If there is no side shoot, the bottom rooted portion will struggle to recover when trimmed.

Here's a few pics. Sorry-- they're not the best quality, but hopefully they'll do.

Old stem grown without root tabs:









Grown with root tabs:









What it can supposedly look like (not my pic). I have yet to figure out how you can make it look this good:


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## Tinanti (Aug 25, 2005)

I'm not certain which species yet, but it is definitely a _Rotala_. There are only two sessile flowers at each node, not a cyme like in _Ammannia_.


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## purebishop (Feb 16, 2011)

Also consider that the photo you're comparing to was probably taken using 10000K instead of whatever light you're using (6500-6700K it looks like, which will make your plants look much greener). Consider adding a 10000K bulb or two to your setup to show off the reds.


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## Cardinal Tetra (Feb 26, 2006)

Beautiful! I hope the box you sent me comes tomorrow


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

azfishkid, try pushing a stem on it's side, that's how mine grew new stems from the nodes. It got pushed over when I was doing a water change, and didn't notice for a while, now it's branched pretty good.


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## dp12man (Mar 18, 2009)

Thread is a little old but any new updates. Maybe a new pic. Or anything you have learned.


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## daobn24 (Apr 22, 2011)

wow that plant looks amazing. Anyone selling these?


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

Wonderful! Amazing what a few root tabs can do.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

All of my Rotala sunset died on me a few months ago. Not sure why.
Crispino Ramos is growing this like it's a weed. I guess it seems to like RO water? Hopefully he finds this thread and gives some information.


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## snausage (Mar 8, 2010)

I think I may have mentioned this before, but I've found that they flourish when the pH is under 6.0. Mine did best when the pH was 5.6-5.8 during the photoperiod.

I also kept them under extremely high light (4 wpg T5). gH was around 7-9, so I don't think the water needs to be super soft.


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## dp12man (Mar 18, 2009)

AZ I just picked up a few stems from Cris. I'll shoot him a PM, I still have a few days before I get them. So I'll see what info I can dig up in the meantime. 

Snausage I'm pretty close to your setup PH 6.2 and WPG at a watt less. GH right on.

I like experiments so I'll plant some with root tabs and some with out in my current conditions and just post some results in this thread.


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

Doesn't need soft water, high light is a must though, mine started to scream when my floaters overgrew the surface, (4wpg t5ho). They grow super slow, but like I said earlier, to grow more, simply push it onto its side and it'll send up new plants from each internode. Pretty extensive root system on these, and if they get too long, the lower growth gets kinda ratty, even under high light. Very pretty plant though, worth the trouble


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## snail_chen (Jul 13, 2007)

echo, I grow mine in tap water


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## dp12man (Mar 18, 2009)

Lots of good info. Thanks guys. One more question have any of you guys notice what makes it a deeper red?


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## tetraontheedge (Dec 7, 2010)

mordalphus said:


> Doesn't need soft water, high light is a must though, mine started to scream when my floaters overgrew the surface, (4wpg t5ho). They grow super slow, but like I said earlier, to grow more, simply push it onto its side and it'll send up new plants from each internode. Pretty extensive root system on these, and if they get too long, the lower growth gets kinda ratty, even under high light. Very pretty plant though, worth the trouble


Side question (as usual :icon_lol would pushing any rotala over this way also create new plants at the internodes?


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

I dropped by Cris's house today and he's growing his Rotala sunset in a 40G breeder with 96 watts of PC light, which really isn't a whole lot. I think phosphorus plays a huge role in this plant's appearance. He's using bone meal under the layer of ADA amazonia and does water changes with half RO water and half tap water.


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## dp12man (Mar 18, 2009)

Thanks for the info.


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## dp12man (Mar 18, 2009)

I've had this plant for almost a month, its grown about 1.5 - 2.5in. in that time. Each orginal stem has a side growth. One at the top the other two at the bottom. It seems to be a less leggy growth more compact. You can see the older leaves are just long and floppy looking compared to the new growth. Stunting? If so, I like it better this way tighter smaller plant that in a group of 15-20 stems would look amazing. It does have that nice bright deep red color with a white strip and green stem. The pic really dosen't show this.

Chicago water which is somewhat hard.
Substrate is Eco.

I dose EI Method. For 20-40 gallon(40 gallon breeder w 110W AH lighting). I go easy on the KNO3 by about a 1/3. And add a tad bit more PO4.

I will be moving one stem in the next few days and try a root tab. To see if any growth changes occur.
I really think I need to add a little more GH booster to the water as I think this has been helping the tank(in general) more than anything. Maybe Ca. or Mn. makes the difference. 

So I'll be doing both at the same time.

I'll update with results in a few weeks.

I included a pic.


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## Rockhoe14er (Jan 19, 2011)

any updates?


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

I have had this plant for a few months now and it pretty much is just not diying. It grows doper slow and looks pretty crappy. It's in a high tech 60-p w 70w of MH over it, too much co2 for any livestock to survive and normal EI for macros with csm+b/flourish and flourish Fe for micros . The sub is ADA AS Ammazonia. 

I keep hoping that I'll do something and it will magically start looking like the APC pic but I have my doubts. 

This plants referred to as ammania suleiawesi (sp?) so wouldn't it make sense that this is a plant that would prefer harder water, isn't that what most fauna from that region need?


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

I don't do anything special with mine, I don't even dose ferts and it looks fine


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Does your tank have harder water or maybe even lower lighting?


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

much lower than your lighting, it's ada "new" amazonia, some bacopa and the ammania sulawesi, just a coralife 24" fixture above a 20g standard tank. Water is pH 5, soft as a whisper, and cold as the dickens. It has sss cbs in it as well. Both plants are red as the devils bottom and grow like stem plants.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Soft as a whisper. I love it. 

Well then my thinking it liked harder water can be tossed out the window. 

Mine has super dark purple almost black edges on the leaves. Im sure it is due to some sort of deficiency but I dose EI for a tank my size and load up on micros too so it escapes me what it could be mussing. 

I have always been thrown off on water hardness using my TDS meter because normal fert dosing can make the number skyrocket. Perhaps I should be adding more Epsom salt and Ca or perhaps more gH booster to all of my tanks.


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## plantluver (Jan 6, 2009)

I had this species three years ago before knowing anything at all about it. Kept it in a 5.5 shrimp tank with rain water only. Very sporadic ei dosing with flourish only. Lighting was something of an unique situation with a twin 65 watt coralife hovering over two 5.5's with overhang on the outside ends of both tanks. Always had slow weed-like growing habits for me. Always a deep burgundy. Grew to the top frequently and was one of the easiest of the 80 or so species I was experimenting with at the time. I even went months neglecting the tank due to a spike in work hours where im employed. 60 to 70 to be exact. When I finally got some focus time again I was surprised to see it had outlived every other stem species in the tank. Very hardy species considering its rarity in the hobby.


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## plantluver (Jan 6, 2009)

Oh and no CO2 and some flourite black over an inch or so of plain old black dirt garden soil. The tank grew just about anything i threw at it.


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## Rockhoe14er (Jan 19, 2011)

mordalphus said:


> I don't do anything special with mine, I don't even dose ferts and it looks fine


That's because you got it from me....lol 
@ mordalphus so i take it 7 days with usps and it's growing in your tank even after all that mess? Christmas miracle? 

As others have said i grow min in just tap water but richmond tap water has a Kh of 2 so it's really soft. 

Also i grow my sunset rotala under 45 par lighting at the substrate (with ample co2) and dose EI fertz and it grows like a weed.


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

I have the ones from you as well, they're recovering well, definitely not at their best though. The h. pinnatifida is doing good though!


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Actually after I looked at mine a bit closer today it is actually looking pretty decent. About a week or so ago I started dosing about 1.5x's the recommended EI dose for a tank the size of mine. My thinking was that since I had a very high amount of a very intense lighting source (70w JBJ Viper MW w/4200k Phillips MasterCoulour bulb) perhaps the plants were just using it up very quickly. 

Here is a pic I found in my 60-p journal of when I had the sunset looking pretty good. But when I took those pics I thought that it looked pretty crappy. I think it was mainly because it grew so slowly and I assumed that it was like every other Rotala in that it should be growing at a break neck speed if it was healthy! Stupid me.


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

That looks pretty good, a little lengthy, but the color is spot on and leafs aren't curled in, so i'd say it's pretty spot on.

I don't know why but mine grows more compressed, I don't know how much light I have over mine, but i didn't think it was a lot. In my 50 gallon it's under 2 t5ho 4 foot bulbs, and the 20 gallon they're under a 24 inch pc 10,000k bulb


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

mordalphus said:


> That looks pretty good, a little lengthy, but the color is spot on and leafs aren't curled in, so i'd say it's pretty spot on.
> 
> I don't know why but mine grows more compressed, I don't know how much light I have over mine, but i didn't think it was a lot. In my 50 gallon it's under 2 t5ho 4 foot bulbs, and the 20 gallon they're under a 24 inch pc 10,000k bulb


I cant remember for sure but I believe I read that excess N can cause a lengthy internode... Any comments on that one?


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

I'm not sure, might make sense though since I don't dose nitrogen, I only add a sprinkle of flourish comprehensive every month, the rest is up to the aquasoil and shrimp


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

mordalphus said:


> I'm not sure, might make sense though since I don't dose nitrogen, I only add a sprinkle of flourish comprehensive every month, the rest is up to the aquasoil and shrimp


Lucky guy! 

Also, what the word on some Almond leaves? I also need some fenben so if you have some leaves I would like to get both. You can pm me if you want.


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## herns (May 6, 2008)

Interesting topic about Rotala Sunset. Any updates so far?


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## parrottbay (May 14, 2012)

Cool Thread AZ!!!


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

bsmith said:


> I cant remember for sure but I believe I read that excess N can cause a lengthy internode... Any comments on that one?


Define excess N.

I dose 45 ppm to my 120 gallon, grew like mad.
Same to the 180.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

mordalphus said:


> That looks pretty good, a little lengthy, but the color is spot on and leafs aren't curled in, so i'd say it's pretty spot on.
> 
> I don't know why but mine grows more compressed, I don't know how much light I have over mine, but i didn't think it was a lot. In my 50 gallon it's under 2 t5ho 4 foot bulbs, and the 20 gallon they're under a 24 inch pc 10,000k bulb


Less light, less nutrients= smaller more bonsai like plant. 

Aaron's light is much less than mine, I grow the snot out of it, but some cuttings will crash. If I just leave it be and in a darker place, it does better. 










Here you can see a few stems getting weird:











We can rule out ferts, light, CO2 as there are excellent healthy stems right next to the decaying ones. But when I grow them at say 1/3 rd this light, none of the stems do this unless I cut and trim too frequently. If I just leave the plant alone and let it grow and grow, it does very well.

I'd prefer to trim more frequently for my 120 Gal, but it's not an issue in the 180 so much.

Seems more related to trimming.


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## herns (May 6, 2008)

Nice old thread to resurrect.

This is the only info I can find with more details about growing best for this plant.

Except Co2, lights and nutrients discussed here, I agree that rootabs also play a major roles growing its best.

Here are photos from my tanks.


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

@herns you always have such nice looking Sunsets! All these below were grown from the ones Ive gotten from you a few times. 

I've grown it very well in inert sand and high light, for long periods of time. (90-120 par at sub). But Ive also killed a lot of it doing fert experiments.

For me at least, its a very touchy plant that doesnt recover well if it ever starts going south. 

As long as it's happy to begin with, it doesnt mind being topped/replanted, moved, etc.

Next time I may try giving it some root balls to maybe act as a buffer if the water column dosing goes awry.

Here's some good, bad, and ugly pics from my tanks over the past couple years.

*The Good*





























*The bad*

You can see a couple tops starting to go wonky, and several otherwise healthy stems have "helicoptering" leaves where they want to twist sideways. Happy sunsets have have perfectly horizontal leaves.




















*The Ugly*

These stems are toast, Ive never been able to save one after it goes like this. Simply topping the plant so the stump can produce new shoots, which is how you can fix most stem species....doesnt work. For me at least.

I call it the dreaded "droop and die" syndrome. :red_mouth



















Herns have you ever had it droop like that?


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## herns (May 6, 2008)

burr740 said:


> @herns you always have such nice looking Sunsets! All these below were grown from the ones Ive gotten from you a few times.
> 
> Herns have you ever had it droop like that?


wow, thanks a lot!
The first photo growth is amazing! They look like "Florida" variety in size.

I sometimes got dropping growth. I dont know what causes.
Do you add rottabs on them?


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