# How to Nip Hair Algae in the Bud?



## nakeeta (Jul 8, 2016)

Ooooh, i love your grassy knoll! i want to roll down it!! =D

...hair algae... only thing i know to do is lower light and increase CO2 (or excel), which has had mixed results for me and seems very depending upon what is actually causing the hair algae.


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## Lousyweather (Mar 25, 2016)

well, your plants look healthy....if the problem were realyl bad, you'd have it in/on the plants.....that gets tough to remove! 

Mechanical removal seems to work best for me....BTW, are you sure it isnt Blue Green Algae?


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## mrnvgtr (May 20, 2016)

Lousyweather said:


> well, your plants look healthy....if the problem were realyl bad, you'd have it in/on the plants.....that gets tough to remove!
> 
> Mechanical removal seems to work best for me....BTW, are you sure it isnt Blue Green Algae?


Maybe it doesn't show in the photos, but there's enough on the S. Repens to make me a little nervous. 

It kind of looks like GBA, but it's short right now since I mowed it down last weekend with my magnet cleaner. That's a long clump of it on the return pipe that I didn't get last time.


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## wantsome (Sep 3, 2006)

Looks like Blue Green Algae to me. You need more biological filtration and cut back on the amount of water your changing to about 25-30%. I was once told by someone a long time ago that BGA means there is something wrong with the cycle in your tank. Large water changes may be causing the tank to cycle. Do you have fish in there? You may need to increase you bioload of fish. Fish waste feeds your nitrifying bacteria and if there isn't enough waste your tank it isn't reaching the end of nitrifying process. Also if you have low nitrates because lack of filtratation and the plants are using what little nitrates you have along with big water changes is probably whats causing it. 

Clean as much of it out by hand. Get your biological filtration producing more nitrates and the rest should clear up on it's own. Physically remove as much of it as you can. BGA survives in low nitrate environments because it's capable of producing it's own nitrogen. It thrives in stagnant water with low water movement also. Low oxygen could be another cause because your nitrifying bacteria need oxygen.


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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

so pretty


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## mrnvgtr (May 20, 2016)

wantsome said:


> Looks like Blue Green Algae to me. You need more biological filtration and cut back on the amount of water your changing to about 25-30%. I was once told by someone a long time ago that BGA means there is something wrong with the cycle in your tank. Large water changes may be causing the tank to cycle. Do you have fish in there? You may need to increase you bioload of fish. Fish waste feeds your nitrifying bacteria and if there isn't enough waste your tank it isn't reaching the end of nitrifying process. Also if you have low nitrates because lack of filtratation and the plants are using what little nitrates you have along with big water changes is probably whats causing it.
> 
> Clean as much of it out by hand. Get your biological filtration producing more nitrates and the rest should clear up on it's own. Physically remove as much of it as you can. BGA survives in low nitrate environments because it's capable of producing it's own nitrogen. It thrives in stagnant water with low water movement also. Low oxygen could be another cause because your nitrifying bacteria need oxygen.


Just so we're clear, there are no fish in there. I do have a dwindling number of small snails that must have hitched a ride with some of my plants, but that's it.

However, I believe the rest of your explanation makes complete sense. This is a new tank that I dry-started months ago and submersed about a month ago. I've had to wait longer than normal to add fish due to being out of town a lot for work. I probably had a good cycle going a few weeks ago, but it finally starved/paused with the lack of fish or any sort of bio load, which coincided when I first noticed the algae forming. Crazy. Thinking I was doing a good thing with the 50% water changes and patience with adding fish has only made things worse. I would have never realized that.

Regarding the type of algae this is, it sure looks like the stuff I see online called hair algae. I'm ordering some Amano Shrimp along with the Hyphessobrycon Amandae because of what I've read about them being good at eating up hair algae. Is there a better type for BGA? I'm shipping on Wed, so I'll have all that later this week, so I probably have another week or two before I'm back on track, assuming we have a solid understanding of the situation.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge!


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## wantsome (Sep 3, 2006)

mrnvgtr said:


> Just so we're clear, there are no fish in there. I do have a dwindling number of small snails that must have hitched a ride with some of my plants, but that's it.
> 
> However, I believe the rest of your explanation makes complete sense. This is a new tank that I dry-started months ago and submersed about a month ago. I've had to wait longer than normal to add fish due to being out of town a lot for work. I probably had a good cycle going a few weeks ago, but it finally starved/paused with the lack of fish or any sort of bio load, which coincided when I first noticed the algae forming. Crazy. Thinking I was doing a good thing with the 50% water changes and patience with adding fish has only made things worse. I would have never realized that.
> 
> ...


No problem. I've never dry started a tank but I do grow plants emersed out of the water. I have a lot of BGA in my emersed set up. It can grow out of the water on moist surfaces. I'm not running any filtration on my emersed set up thats why I think BGA thrives in it. It's a pretty sterile and stagnant environment. Another thing about BGA is when it's killed it releases toxins into the water. It's highly toxic to people also. I treat all of my plants that come out of my emersed with a peroxide dip to kill it before I put them in my tank. You might want to look into treating your tank with peroxide to kill it before you add any fish. I've never treated a tank directly with peroxide because it can be harmful to fish but since you don't have any you might want to give it a go. Then add fish after it clears up. After all BGA is actually a bacteria. You can find how to treat a tank with peroxide with a search online. 

I'm editing this post again after rereading your statement. I'm by no means an expert but I do have 20 years of fish keeping knowledge. I'm still learning about planted tanks. Anyone can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. The above statement is just my take on BGA. Ask a questions on these boards and you'll get 20 different answers. It very well could be hair algae or both BGA and hair. BGA has like a web structure to it and looks like slime. Hair algae has more of a filament stringy structure. I haven't dealt much with hair algae. Although I've seen it in my buddy's high tech set up. Another method that works for taking care of algae is the black out method. Cut off all light to the tank for 5 days and add a air stone. But it the root of the problem isn't solved it will come back.

First I'd try peroxide to see if that's the silver bullet. It's the easiest method to try first. If it's BGA peroxide should have an effect. If that don't work look into the black out method.


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## IntotheWRX (May 13, 2016)

how much light are you giving it? I would try to ease the gas pedal to "slow" and turn your lights down to 1-3 hours a day and see if it helps. otherwise if your light is pedal to the metal, you can't swerve fast enough and will end up crashing at algae. go slow and make sure your water is good. water changes too frequent will throw the equilibrium off balance. keep the water circulating, ample amouts of co2 and give 2x fertz. keep your co2 on the same level "high".


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## jkrohn (Sep 17, 2015)

I think equally important to how long of a photoperiod you're using is what your light intensity is. 

- What lights are you using and how high above the substrate are they?
- What is your fert regime?
- Also what is the complete plant list?


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

wantsome said:


> Large water changes may be causing the tank to cycle. Do you have fish in there? You may need to increase you bioload of fish. .


That does not sound correct. Water changes do not affect the cycle and the last thing you want to do is put more fish in. Also you have AS don't you, so that's got enough Ammonia for the two of us. 

One reason I dislike DSM is that everything grows nicely emersed and then once it's submersed the plants requirements change and there's a slow down of uptake so algae finds a way in. Add to the fact that UG is much harder to grow without co2 (I don't think you have co2) so you have that as well.

The very best thing you could do is add co2 and increase water changes.


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## wantsome (Sep 3, 2006)

houseofcards said:


> That does not sound correct. Water changes do not affect the cycle and the last thing you want to do is put more fish in. Also you have AS don't you, so that's got enough Ammonia for the two of us.
> 
> One reason I dislike DSM is that everything grows nicely emersed and then once it's submersed the plants requirements change and there's a slow down of uptake so algae finds a way in. Add to the fact that UG is much harder to grow without co2 (I don't think you have co2) so you have that as well.
> 
> The very best thing you could do is add co2 and increase water changes.


The whole purpose of having a filter is to convert ammonia into nitrate. If the filter does not have a source of ammonia to convert into nitrate the tank isn't going to cycle properly. Having a low nitrifying bacteria count along with water changes will exacerbate the problem. Doing large scale water changes under these circumstances can lead to problems with BGA. BGA thrives in low nitrate environments because it is capable of producing it's own nitrogen. I've dealt with it in new set ups and I've seen it clear up once a filter gets established. Having a lot of excess nutrients from the substrate and moderate light could be contributing factors also.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

wantsome said:


> The whole purpose of having a filter is to convert ammonia into nitrate.


Do you have any idea how much ammonia is in AS? If he removed 90% of the water every day he would have more ammonia then other inert substrates. You don't need to do fishless cycles really at all with plants, but with AS it's like adding a needle to a haystack. 

If doing water changes interfered with the cycle no one who has Aquasoil would ever have a cycled tank, because your suppose to do daily water changes for the first week, every other day for the 2nd week, etc. Without the water changes there is too much Ammonia and the tank fills with algae.


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## AbbeysDad (Apr 13, 2016)

Interesting discussion. 

Ammonia is toxic. Not only to fish, but at high levels it is toxic to the very (nitrosomonas and nitrospira) bacteria that ultimately convert it to nitrates. Often cycling is stalled if/when ammonia levels are too high. Water changes does not typically stall cycling.
Where it gets interesting is in the heavily planted tank. Ammonia is a form of nitrogen and plants love good nitrogen. It's possible that plants could use all of the ammonia in a typical tank before any bacteria can process it. The rise and fall of the beneficial bacteria colony size will, in part, be dependent on the amount of available ammonia. Since the established heavily planted tank will likely have very little 'free' ammonia, the bacteria colony will be very, very small - if it exists at all. But this is not a bad thing, but quite the contrary. After all, if/when the plants use ammonia, less is converted to evil nitrates...AH, but then nitrates is ALSO a form of nitrogen and many plants will use nitrates as their nitrogen source, especially in the absence of ammonia.
I have no experience with ADA substrate, but have heard that it's chuck full of ammonia, which I suppose makes it good for plants and only plants....and many water changes and lots of plants would be required before any bacteria could survive....let alone livestock.

And although the filter is a good platform for beneficial bacteria (including faculative bacteria), in the established tank (planted or not) BB exists on any hard surface in the tank, *especially* in the substrate.

Getting back to the algae, I think it goes back to balance or lack thereof. Back in the day, I did a lot of trouble shooting in manufacturing. The knee jerk reaction is to compensate for a problem to more quickly resolve to get/keep a machine running. But the best solution is solving the problem at it's root cause. A band-aid for the algae might be H202 or Excel when the root cause is the balance of light, nutrients and plant mass.
I'm no expert (even though I've been in the hobby for about 50 years), but feel the algae fight might be best won by reducing lighting (intensity or duration) and/or slightly reducing ferts to better achieve balance.


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## wantsome (Sep 3, 2006)

houseofcards said:


> Do you have any idea how much ammonia is in AS? If he removed 90% of the water every day he would have more ammonia then other inert substrates. You don't need to do fishless cycles really at all with plants, but with AS it's like adding a needle to a haystack.
> 
> If doing water changes interfered with the cycle no one who has Aquasoil would ever have a cycled tank, because your suppose to do daily water changes for the first week, every other day for the 2nd week, etc. Without the water changes there is too much Ammonia and the tank fills with algae.


You know what somewhere along the way I missed the point that he had aquasoil. Yes I am aware it releases ammonia. I have 20 years experience with aquariums but I'm still learning when it comes to planted tanks. I was just trying to help the guy out and give my take on the situation. My advice is still the same as far as the algae goes though. Peroxide or the black out method for the clean up. Then like AbbeysDad stated cut back on the lights and find a balance. Like I said if someone on these boards asks a question they'll get 20 different answers. Regardless of anything I've said AbbeysDad gave some solid advice about balance between light nutrients plants.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

If you have 20 years experience with aquariums then you know that changing water does not affect the cycle. If that was the case every time I did a water change (which many/most do here at 50% weekly) they would get a cycle. That simply doesn't happen. People who house Discus do much more than that, some daily and they don't have a problem with the cycle. 

Aquasoil leaches a ridiculous amount of Ammonia. Even without all the Anecdotal evidence found here, it's own manufacturer will tell you to change 50% of the water EVERY DAY for the 1st week and then every other day the 2nd week and every 3 days the third week. I can almost guarantee you that wasn't done here. So you have all this ammonia in the water and your running good lights, no co2, and the plants are adjusting to a submersed environment. That is pretty much a perfect storm for Algae.


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## mrnvgtr (May 20, 2016)

Yikes! I guess I left out some critical information from my original post. I was thinking it was unnecessary as I was asking in somewhat of a broad sense.

*Tank:* ADA Mini M (approx:14"x8.5"x10"; 5.5 gal)

*Light:* I don't really know too much about what I have. I know, stupid. Here's what I know. Mingdak LED panel fixture w/30 white/6 blue LEDs. Here are the pertinent specs: Size: 11 inch; LED Quantity: 36; LEDs(30 white + 6 blue); Power: 6W. The LEDs sit approx 1.25 in above a glass cover, which sits between .25 in and .5 in above the water line, depending on length of time since the last water change. Therefore, total height above water is 1.5 to 1.75 in.

*Filtration:* Zoo Med 501

*Substrate:* Yes, I'm using ADA Aqua Soil (AS).

*CO2:* Nope. Just using Excel for now. I do eventually want to upgrade to CO2, but that's not currently allowed due to my budget.

Additives: Flourish Excel; normal dosage is 0.5 mL per day, but I'm dosing 1.0 mL per day at this time.

*Flora:* Utricularia Graminifolia (carpet); Staurogyne Repens (background); Lilaeopsis Brasiliensis (oops, long story).

*Fauna:* None

This thread is exactly why I found it hard researching this myself. Now that I'm thoroughly confused, let me attempt to summarize the key take-aways that I think I've captured after re-reading all this a few times.

1. I overlooked the prescribed water change process when using AS. I recall reading this somewhere, maybe on the packaging, but then I went on an 8 week dry-start regime and completely forgot about it by the time I submersed everything. I think I only did one 50% water change when I submersed and then one 50% water change per week thereafter for the last 3-4 weeks. *Question:* Should I simply start the daily (week 1), every second day (week 2), and every third day (week 3) routine right now, or has the problem probably lessoned over time and that would probably do more damage than good and throw me off any kind of equilibrium I might have attained at this point in time?

2. It's been suggested that I reduce my photoperiod. I've had the lights set on a timer to be on 5 hours per day (5 - 10 pm) since submersion day 1. *Question:* Wouldn't reducing it further possibly harm my plants?

3. Assuming the AS provides all the ferts I need, I don't use ferts. I read that the fertilization properties will dwindle over time, so I should re-consider at some later date.

Other than the algae growing on the some of the Staurogyne Repens leaves, all the plants are looking great despite the lack of CO2. I just need help getting that sought after balance of light, nutrients, and plant mass and nip this algae in the bud. Also, I'd prefer to not go to extremes like using peroxide or black-out periods if at all possible. Hopefully I've provide enough information to help in the analysis of my problem.


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## sadchevy (Jun 15, 2013)

It seems nobody has addressed the problem you asked about. First, what you have is hair algae. Reducing light period, manual removal and frequent water changes are going to be the first things to try. Getting your water and fert parameters stabilized is also going to help. Hair algae is tough, it thrives in the same conditions as our plants, it can tolerate lower light levels also. Short of the mentioned methods, if tank is cycled, I would get a pair of male black mollies, they eat the stuff. Its a battle that can be won, you just have to be as persistent as the algae. If all else fails, there is always Algaefix.


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