# Help with brown algae



## nchmi28 (Feb 8, 2015)

I had it on some leaves on a new plant I put in a tank. The pond snails went after it. But if you try this solution then you'll have pond snails that you'll never be able to get rid of.


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## prostudent4life (Feb 23, 2015)

Yeah, I have two Nerite snails in the tank. In fact, you can see on the first pic where they went after the algae on a sword leaf. 

I just wish I could solve whatever issue  is causing it. I'm lost at this point. Co2, lights, ferts, I just can't figure it out. I've read that I may have too much light, others say it's caused by too little light. With just one 24/7 on a 75, it's hard to believe it's too much light. 


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

True about the pond snails, they can actually clean those leaves, but you need to nuke the tank afterwards.

Can the light fixture go any higher, or maybe be dimmed? Those finnex lights are very prone to causing algae when too close or use too long.
I would take diminishing the amount of light but keeping the time the same over the other way around.

Really nice looking tank btw.


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## prostudent4life (Feb 23, 2015)

The finnex 24/7 can be dimmed to any level. I'm just concerned about going that route, as I've read brown algae can be caused by too little light? I'd rather have this work...cheap to dim the light, expensive to add another!

Anyone have experience with the bristlenose pleco cleaning this stuff up? I'm not sure if I should go that route or add more Nerite snails. 

Thanks for the compliment on the tank...certainly wouldn't have turned out without these forums. 


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

Few questions,
How did you make the solutions, how much and how often do you dose, how much and how often do you do water changes, how many CO2 bubbles per second, what is your tap water GH and KH?

In the meantime, I would start removing the infected leaves. There is no point in keeping them as they will not recover from BBA. Need to concentrate on new healthy growth resistant to algae. Read more


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## Mr.Free (Feb 18, 2016)

I suggest lessening your daylight. I am running my 24/7 on auto for my 60g with little to no algae. and my plants are doing fine. Unless you have a high light requirement for any of your plants...daylight last about 6 hours if you are running on auto.

My Co2 runs for 5hrs(4-5bps) on after daylight starts and shuts off 1 hr. I dosed flourish excel every water change. Osmocote diy tabs.


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## prostudent4life (Feb 23, 2015)

I made the solutions exactly as described on the pps site, using a calibrated digital scale. I dose 6ml per day of micro and 6ml of macro. These are dosed using a jeboa auto dosing pump. Co2 was set to 8-9 bps to get the drop checker a yellow green. Since then, I've added a ph controller to keep the drop checker the same color at all times. KH is high, around 17 or so...I haven't done a GH test, but can do one quickly. 

I do a 40% water change once a week. 

Also, I'm not certain this is BBA, as it is a brown film I can rub off. Perhaps I have a couple varieties. 


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## Mr.Free (Feb 18, 2016)

Does the Drop checker need to be green at all times? 

Mine drops to blue green overnight..


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## prostudent4life (Feb 23, 2015)

Tap GH is 24, just tested with the API kit. KH is 15 right out of he tap. While the results may suggest otherwise, this is not well water. 


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## prostudent4life (Feb 23, 2015)

Mr.Free said:


> Does the Drop checker need to be green at all times?
> 
> 
> 
> Mine drops to blue green overnight..



No it doesn't, but it was taking a lot of co2 and time to get the co2 up to where it needs to be. So I did some reading, and decided to add a controller to hold the co2 constant. 


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## prostudent4life (Feb 23, 2015)

Mr.Free said:


> I suggest lessening your daylight. I am running my 24/7 on auto for my 60g with little to no algae. and my plants are doing fine. Unless you have a high light requirement for any of your plants...daylight last about 6 hours if you are running on auto.
> 
> 
> 
> My Co2 runs for 5hrs(4-5bps) on after daylight starts and shuts off 1 hr. I dosed flourish excel every water change. Osmocote diy tabs.



This is interesting. I was running the light in 24/7 mode when I first set it up. However, I switched to just using on/off due to this brown algae. However after a month on this schedule, it doesn't seem to be helping. My goal is to return to 24/7 mode at some point as it's much more enjoyable. The ph controller makes co2 management simple in 24/7 mode 


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

Did you check the real dosing pump outputs? Also, cut the Solution dose #2 TE to 1/10th and tell me about your water changes. 

In regard to the tap water parameters there aren’t many high light aquariums with KH of ≈ 17 degrees. You can see the same problem here. The option we have is either to go low light with hard water plants or switch to RO. 

With the algae infected leaves, I would remove only the ones that cannot be wiped clean.


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## Mr.Free (Feb 18, 2016)

I had my C02 running at 9 hrs at one point and it pretty much suffocated my fish. They had to recover over night..lets just say..it was a vicious cycle for the fish at one point.

I am using a fluval diffuser with a powerhead.

Are using 4kdh water on those drop checker?


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

Mr.Free said:


> I had my C02 running at 9 hrs at one point and it pretty much suffocated my fish. They had to recover over night..lets just say..it was a vicious cycle for the fish at one point.


 CO2 I set per bubble count 24/7 and forget about it. There is no need for all of this fish torture practices.


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## sohankpatel (Jul 10, 2015)

On the subject of pond snails, i have a decent population of them in my tank, I have 100's of ramshorns that are small, and pond snails that live in my filter. They have not been an issue yet. and they have been there since day one (5 Months ago.)


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## prostudent4life (Feb 23, 2015)

Mr.Free said:


> I had my C02 running at 9 hrs at one point and it pretty much suffocated my fish. They had to recover over night..lets just say..it was a vicious cycle for the fish at one point.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I am using a premixed 4kdh solution. 


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## prostudent4life (Feb 23, 2015)

Edward said:


> Did you check the real dosing pump outputs? Also, cut the Solution dose #2 TE to 1/10th and tell me about your water changes.
> 
> In regard to the tap water parameters there aren’t many high light aquariums with KH of ≈ 17 degrees. You can see the same problem here. The option we have is either to go low light with hard water plants or switch to RO.
> 
> With the algae infected leaves, I would remove only the ones that cannot be wiped clean.


I have checked the output of the pumps and they are spot on. I'm actually impressed with how well this cheap dosing pump holds its calibration. 

I have been changing about 40% of the water once a week since the tank was set up.

So let me see if I'm understanding what you're suggesting:
My hard water isn't letting the plants use the ferts and co2 as efficiently as they otherwise would. As a result, I'm adding too many nutrients to the water and the plants aren't able to use them.(thus causing my algae growth?) Therefore, I should cut back on ferts, and reduce light, and probably reduce co2?

I should add that the plants are growing well, the sword sends up new leaves all the time, and the rotala need to be trimmed back every week. I've recently added Ludwigia to the back, and was able to cut it back and replant the tops after two weeks. 

I did have a small 12 gallon fluval edge (with many of these plants coming from it) that was algae free. I'd have to do some research before I thought about switching to RO water...thats a lot of water to haul through the house.


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## Mr.Free (Feb 18, 2016)

Edward said:


> CO2 I set per bubble count 24/7 and forget about it. There is no need for all of this fish torture practices.


I have adjusted and have mine a 4bps at 5hrs atm.

It was a lesson learned kinda thing:wink2:.


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## prostudent4life (Feb 23, 2015)

I just decided to do a Nitrate test...it seems to be over 40...my eyes cant do much better than that on the API test kit color chart. I'm still 2 days out from my water change, so perhaps I am over doing the ferts.


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

The Jebao dosing pumps are so accurate? Good to know, thanks.
It seems to me like you are doing everything perfectly and are happy with it except the algae on old leaves. So, what if you try changing two things,
Dosing Solution #2 micros 2 drops per 10 gallon daily, (or 1 ml per 10 gallon diluted 10x)
Lowering light intensity (-30%?) , not duration

This is only temporarily for let’s say four weeks to see how things improve. After this time we will know more about what direction to take next. Do you want to try?

Also, you have tested > 40 ppm NO3, that’s too much. Dosing Solution #1 at 1 ml per 10 gallon with weekly 40% water changes limits levels to 17.5 ppm NO3, 1.75 ppm PO4, 23 ppm K and 1.75 ppm Mg, if there is zero uptake. So your high NO3 must be organics from waste or tap. I would increase water changes to get it slowly under 20 ppm NO3. And continue dosing Solution #1 at 1 ml per 10 gallon daily.


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## prostudent4life (Feb 23, 2015)

That is for the ideas. I'll certainly try this for a while and see how it works out. 


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## AWolf (Jun 13, 2014)

I've always been suspicious of the correlation of pH and diatoms. If it became a problem for me, I would try lowering the pH with leaves or wood. I have done experiments where I lowered pH by almost a whole point overnight by adding a load of dried oak leaves or wood to the tank. Of course, you will tannin your water. But it would make for a great experiment. Dealing with tannins is easy, but dealing with diatoms....


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## bluesand (Nov 3, 2014)

AWolf said:


> I've always been suspicious of the correlation of pH and diatoms. If it became a problem for me, I would try lowering the pH with leaves or wood. I have done experiments where I lowered pH by almost a whole point overnight by adding a load of dried oak leaves or wood to the tank. Of course, you will tannin your water. But it would make for a great experiment. Dealing with tannins is easy, but dealing with diatoms....


I had a similar idea, i think if the ph is lower than 6, in tje low 5s, diatom will grow. Ill need to test it.


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

prostudent4life said:


> ... I'll certainly try this for a while and see how it works out.


 If you see new leaves growing white, transparent or pale than you need more solution #2 traces. Hopefully it won’t happen.


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## Willcooper (May 31, 2015)

I was using pps pro with a similar setup and had problems so I switched to ei for simplicity. I'm pretty sure the proper way to use ppspro is to start with the standard formula and then measure nutrient uptake and modify the recipe to actual plant uptake. Blah blah blah way to much work. I would change to ei (you should already have what you need) and start using ro water/tap not try to get your kh down to about 5 or so. No more inhibiting plant uptake that way and then you also know for sure you are getting enough nutrients. Also I'd find it unlikely tags you have high nitrates do to pps pro prob due to too much feeding and possibly mulm.


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## prostudent4life (Feb 23, 2015)

Willcooper said:


> I was using pps pro with a similar setup and had problems so I switched to ei for simplicity. I'm pretty sure the proper way to use ppspro is to start with the standard formula and then measure nutrient uptake and modify the recipe to actual plant uptake. Blah blah blah way to much work. I would change to ei (you should already have what you need) and start using ro water/tap not try to get your kh down to about 5 or so. No more inhibiting plant uptake that way and then you also know for sure you are getting enough nutrients. Also I'd find it unlikely tags you have high nitrates do to pps pro prob due to too much feeding and possibly mulm.


I'll have to try to sort out the reason for high nitrates. I am good about cleaning the top layer of sand with the vac every week, taking care to stir mulm out of the rocks /wood. As far as feeding goes, I'm using pellets, but I could be over feeding. The tank has 10 rainbows that make the water boil at feeding time. Its difficult to try to ensure that everyone gets fed (especially the cardinals)

For now, I have cut my dosing in half by setting the auto doser to skip a day between dosing. This was my quick way of dealing with the problem during a busy week. I may have to look into ei, just for the ease of things. I really wish their was an easy way to start using RO....hauling huge containers of water through the house is not going to go over well...


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## Willcooper (May 31, 2015)

prostudent4life said:


> Willcooper said:
> 
> 
> > I was using pps pro with a similar setup and had problems so I switched to ei for simplicity. I'm pretty sure the proper way to use ppspro is to start with the standard formula and then measure nutrient uptake and modify the recipe to actual plant uptake. Blah blah blah way to much work. I would change to ei (you should already have what you need) and start using ro water/tap not try to get your kh down to about 5 or so. No more inhibiting plant uptake that way and then you also know for sure you are getting enough nutrients. Also I'd find it unlikely tags you have high nitrates do to pps pro prob due to too much feeding and possibly mulm.
> ...


Feel that on ro water being a pain. I was using strictly ro for a while and switched to my tap because it actually had pretty decent parameters. Best of luck


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

prostudent4life said:


> For now, I have cut my dosing in half by setting the auto doser to skip a day between dosing. This was my quick way of dealing with the problem during a busy week.


Cutting the dosing in half can make it only worse.



If you want to try heavy nutrient levels you can dose daily solution #1 macro at 3 ml per 10 gallon with weekly 50% water changes. This will also clean up the unusable > 40 ppm of organic NO3 and other impurities. 

This dose adds daily
3 ppm NO3, 0.3 ppm PO4, 4 ppm K, 0.3 ppm Mg

This dose limits levels at 50% weekly water changes and zero plant uptakes to
42 ppm NO3, 4.2 ppm PO4, 56 ppm K, 4.2 ppm Mg

As for Solution #2 micros, I would dose daily, during this time 1 ml per 10 gallon. This dose adds daily 0.1 ppm TE (Fe) and limits levels to 1.4 ppm TE (Fe) at zero plants uptake.

Leave lights the way you like and make sure there is a good supply of CO2. If this doesn’t help then no other fertilizer will.


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## prostudent4life (Feb 23, 2015)

Edward said:


> Cutting the dosing in half can make it only worse.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think I'm going to stick with your first suggestion for now. Now that I have had some time to mess around with this, I have a couple questions / some new info if you don't mind. 

1. What is the logic behind your recommendation to decrease the micro dose so significantly while maintaining the recommended dose of macros? (As I've said, I'm willing to try anything, and have set my pump to 1ml per day of micros at this point, until I can remix the solution allowing me to get down to two drops per 10 gallons)

2. I checked my tap for Nitrates, and didn't find any. With my water change schedule and vac habits, I assume the cause of my high nitrates must be over feeding. I'll cut back on that and continue to monitor Nitrates. I also double checked the calibration of my dosing pump, and found it to still be perfectly calibrated.

So, as of Now, I have cut back on my light by about 30%, dose macros at 6ml per day and micros at 1 ml per day for my 75 gallon. I did a water change yesterday, and I'll do another today to decrease those nitrates further.

Thanks again for all of the help!


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

prostudent4life said:


> I think I'm going to stick with your first suggestion for now.


 I don’t know how to grow plants at 17dKH under high lights. The macros ratios cannot be that different than what we have. So the choices are to make perfect conditions and dose either low or high macros. I think it would be nice to find what works better.



> What is the logic behind your recommendation to decrease the micro dose so significantly while maintaining the recommended dose of macros?


 http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1...393-question-clarification-csm-b-pps-pro.html 



> (As I've said, I'm willing to try anything, and have set my pump to 1ml per day of micros at this point, until I can remix the solution allowing me to get down to two drops per 10 gallons)


 For your 75 gallon the micros dose should be 15 drops. So if you auto-dose 1 ml you are ok, it is close enough. (1 ml = 20 drops)



> I checked my tap for Nitrates, and didn't find any. With my water change schedule and vac habits, I assume the cause of my high nitrates must be over feeding.


 You can check your NO3 test kit colour sample against 10 ppm sample. To make the 10 ppm NO3 sample put 5 drops of solution #1 macros in 1L water.


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## prostudent4life (Feb 23, 2015)

Thanks much! Your linked thread was a good read. I'm going to run with this for a while and see what happens.. If this Micro adjustment and light dimming can do the trick, that would be great. I'll also test my API kit this afternoon to make sure all is well there.


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## prostudent4life (Feb 23, 2015)

I wanted to provide an update after working with these changes for a few weeks. I reduced the lighting by 20 percent, and cut way back on the micro dose. I quickly noticed that the brown algae covering was getting worse, and some of my plants didn't seem to appreciate the the reduced lighting. I'm back to running the finnex 24/7 on max for 8 hrs. ( I really don't think this is much light for a 75 as I see many on here running two of these on the same size tank)

The brown algae seems to be relenting. New growth is looking great, rocks don't get covered in the brown algae anymore. I'm also fighting to keep the nitrates down with larger water changes, even doing two in a week when necessary. I'm still looking for the cause of the high nitrates. I'm not over feeding, tank maintenance is up to par...

I decided to up the frequency of my canister cleanings. I'll continue to clean one canister a week, alternating between the two of them, so that each runs for two weeks prior to a cleaning. I was letting it stretch out to a month. I've also replaced SOME of the filter floss with this last round of cleaning, instead of just rinsing it out in tank water.

Thanks again for all the ideas that were contributed.


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

I always try and plush the floss out again, but almost always have to end up adding more, when I wash some.

I'm starting to get fond of sponge filters, really much cheaper to run after the initial outlay.


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

Thank you for the update.
You have two canister filters, what kind and how much of it is biological media? Aquarium 75 gallon size should have 5 – 10%, 3.75 – 7.5 gallon size biological filtration to break down waste. 

Do we know the tap Mg and the aquarium PO4 levels? 
Maybe you could try #1 macros NO3 Free solution for few weeks to get the high NO3 under control.


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## prostudent4life (Feb 23, 2015)

The filters are SunSun branded. I have a 302 and a 304. As far as biological medium goes, 2 of the three trays in the 302 have bio media (ceramic in one tray and bio balls in the other). In the 304, I have 1 tray of ceramic, 1 tray with purigen, and the rest are various sponge / floss sizes. Perhaps I should add additional bio media to the filters?


I don't know the mg and p04 levels. I'll have to pick up a test kit for those.


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## prostudent4life (Feb 23, 2015)

Time for another update. I made the switch to RO water. I'm tired of fighting with this liquid rock. I just completed my first water change with RO. I used pure RO this time, as I only did a 40% change. This puts me at a KH of 9 and a GH of 14. I'll probably complete another pure RO change at the end of the week to get these values down more, before switching to blended tap and RO.


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