# Apisto ID?



## rmc (Dec 6, 2005)

Impossible for me to tell by those pics. If it has fat lips it will be a cacatoides type but that will still cover a ton of different variants. In the 2nd pic it looks like it may have a spade shaped tail which would be an aggassizi. With few exceptions, the female apisto's will show a lot more black on their ventral fins.


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## bigstick120 (May 23, 2005)

Better pics will help. Use your flash but diffuse it with some tissue paper.


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## nate_mcnasty (Mar 11, 2008)

it might have to grow a bit more to tell. it looks like a very nice apisto tho


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## fishsandwitch (Apr 20, 2008)

I doubt you have a pair if they are smaller than an otto...


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## blazeyreef (Mar 17, 2008)

kinda looks like a nannacara


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## JustOneMore21 (May 23, 2006)

A better pic would help later, but it probably needs to settle in for a day or 2 before you see its true colors. IME, Apistos can change color on the spot so its hard to tell what you have right now. Let them get settled and chill out a bit after being shipped and put in a new tank and hopefully we can help you ID them.  I have a female that goes from pale brown to yellow with black strips (when the male is around).....and before I figured it out, I thought it was a different fish!


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## plakat (Mar 2, 2008)

Does it look like this?










Tail spot and blue coloration seemed similar, but its rather hard to tell in your pics.


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## Riley (Jan 24, 2006)

Check out Apisto. eunotus or Apisto. cruzi.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

fishsandwitch said:


> I doubt you have a pair if they are smaller than an otto...


 What would that have to do with gender at this age?

Anyways, from looking at pics on http://apistogrammaidiots.com they most closely resemble A. caucatoides, A. atahualpa, A. staecki, Apistogramma sp. aff. “Peixoto, or Apistogramma sp. aff. “taeniata”, Apistogramma sp. “Peru-regani”... LOL I suppose I may never know for sure, since these guys are WC!

Which Apisto species are from Peru (besides the last, obviously)?


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

I ran into the same problem IDing my apistos when I first got them. It was clear they weren't aggassizi as I was told, but trying to identify them beyond that was not easy. And mine are older! I wasn't even sure if I had 2 females, 2 males or a pair. Even worse, I found out that when 2 males are together, sometimes one male will restrain itself from showing its male coloration. The suggested reason is for its protection from being harmed by the other, more dominant male.

So in other words... it's a challenge to ID them as adults, and nearly impossible when they're so young.

Let them grow and watch their behavior and color morphs. Eventually, their fins will begin to show their patterns and colors which can help narrow down the possibilities.

But if you really can't figure it out, send them to me. I'll be happy to take them off your hands and help out with the frustration of not being able to positively ID them.  :icon_lol:


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## Riley (Jan 24, 2006)

Wow....that is a wide range of species Laura! I would wait and watch for a while and see what they turn into. My bet would be some type of Apisto. eunotus or something in that group. I always like getting contaminant apistos and waiting to see what they turn into...thats the fun of it! Good luck.


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## MedRed (May 20, 2008)

if you can take some better pictures... I may be able to help.


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## deleted_user_16 (Jan 20, 2008)

looks like a female cactuoides, tell us, is it yellow?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

LOL @ Vicky  

Unfortunately, the less dominant one died. It was rather skinny so that wasn't too surprising. I have seen this one eating frozen brine shrimp today so I think he'll be OK.

No, fish, it's not yellow at all. Other than the blue irridescence on the operculum like I mentioned and the black stripes it has no color at all.

MedRed- It's been staying towards the back of the tank today so no chances of pics. I honestly don't think my camera will be able to get any better pics than what I have already- this fish is just too tiny! Well under 1"... so I guess I'll have to wait quite a while for a better ID.

Riley- yeah, isn't it? This fish could be any of a *bunch* of species! LOL


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## deleted_user_16 (Jan 20, 2008)

it is either a female or still a young fish, not fully mature, so with time, we can determine it.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Laura Lee, is this at all close to what your Apisto looks like? I tried to enhance the picture.


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## MedRed (May 20, 2008)

That picture looks like a eunotus


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I think that is one of the many possibilities. I do a search on A. eunotus and I get tons of pics, some that look nothing at all like my fish, but some that might be...

This was one of the more informative threads I ran across:

http://forum.apistogramma.com/showthread.php?t=5132&highlight=Apistogramma+eunotus

Vicky- yes that's pretty much it.


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## stlfishlover (Mar 26, 2008)

Laura... I showed my hubby this thread and he agrees that it is more than likely _A. eunotus. _He's kept them in the past. Let me know how all the fish work out, might eventually order from them as we have a hard time finding good looking apistos of any sort around here.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Thanks, everyone- I think A. eunotus will be my "working ID" for now, seems the best fit ATM at least.

Plakat- you're right- your Apisto in this thread looks nothing like the one in Complexity's cave thread- so my little guy may look quite different in a month or two, as well!

He seems to have adjusted pretty well to my tank at this point. He doesn't recognize flakes as food just yet, but loves picking at frozen food, and I've been feeding a good variety of that (brine, mysis, bloodworms, "cichlid delight," "emerald entree"...)


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## plakat (Mar 2, 2008)

Good, hopefully in a couple months he will have plumped up and we can see some nice pics.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I managed to get some better shots tonight. Probably the best I'm going to get- seeing as this little guy doesn't like holding still, plus I'm a pretty lousy photographer LOL


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## MedRed (May 20, 2008)

ok this changes things... can you get a full on side shot? this is most likely a Veijata or Macmasteri


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

*7/23/08*

*Updated Pics*

Due to this little fish's 'Tude, s/he is now the sole occupant of my 29gal QT tank LOL

Anyways, here's the latest pics, whaddy'all think?


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## plakat (Mar 2, 2008)

Its hard to tell but I am looking at the tail spot mainly and body form. From that it seems like its either a A. regani, A. eunotus or A. cruzi. Less likely it could be a macmasteri/veijita or a hybrid of the two if so I would think female more so than male since it lacks color.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

That tank is so dim and my camera has no macro setting, so it's really hard to get decent pics.

It's about 1.5 to 2" in size now, so I'm also thinking "he" is probably a "she." Otherwise I'd think it would have more color. Been getting a good varied diet of frozen foods. Finally got it on Omega One flakes now, too.

Agressive little booger though- comes up to the front of the tank and flares at me all the time, and of course I had to isolate it from my GBRs who it was bullying despite the fact they were 2x its size! LOL


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## plakat (Mar 2, 2008)

Wow that is quite aggressive. From the dozen or so apisto species I have had they never have come to the front and flared at me. They will come and inspect me but that's about it. 

At that size I would think there should be coloring if its a male no matter the species. A. regani is still a possibility for a male since they don't get much in the way of bright colors but like you I am thinking female of some species and unfortunately most don't color up much with out a male in the tank. Females cap out at about that size maybe 2.5" so hopefully it won't have the weight to back up its attitude.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Yeah, just from the aggression level, I was worried a little that it might be a Blue Acara at one point... but I think it would have grown more quickly than it has?


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## plakat (Mar 2, 2008)

It should be bigger if it was an acara. The body shape and coloring should be different too but I could see how it might be confusing. 

I remember someone telling me they had a pair of macmasteri that completely destroyed everything in a 40gal tank when he added them to it. I can almost pet mine and they swim in the net when I try to catch other fish. 

Here is a pic of my female macmasteri right when I got her.









After keeping her with a male for a week or two.


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## MedRed (May 20, 2008)

any better lit pictures... I can probably nail this sucker with some light.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Honestly, s/he looks exactly the same even if more light came through in the pics. S/he blends in with the gravel very well. There's no color at all on the body other than that blue on the operculum.


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

MedRed said:


> any better lit pictures... I can probably nail this sucker with some light.


Please don't, it is so small and innocent!


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Innocent? HA! LOL


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## captain_bu (Oct 20, 2007)

This also looks like it could be a female a. hongsloi. Here a couple of the photos with improved contrast. Still hard to see the shape and detail of the fins.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

I tried to lighten the first pic. Is this any better?


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## Lorenmws (Jul 27, 2008)

Thats what my juv. A. Borelli looked like.


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## MedRed (May 20, 2008)

If this lightened picture is accurate... that is definitely a eunotus. sub and super orbital stripes, dorsal blotches, interrupted transversal bars, thinner lateral band ending before a vertical caudal spot, and no abdominal stripes all point to eunotus.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

All I did to the lightened picture was use the "auto level" function in Photoshop. I did not alter the picture in any other way whatsoever. So it should be accurate.

Looking at the color of the substrate and the blue markings on the fish, I think the colors are pretty much on target.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Laura, who gave you a hitchhiker apisto, boxlot?? That's got to be one of the coolest HH'ers. 

If you need to rehome the little bast'd, I have a great place for him/her to rule the nether regions.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Jaide if you want the little terror, s/he is yours! I was going to try and trade it in at Boardroom next time I go there, otherwise. Yes, it hitchhiked in with my order from Boxlot, which is the only reason I'm pretty sure it's from Peru. It's eating really well now, even flakes. :thumbsup:


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## blazeyreef (Mar 17, 2008)

handsom lil guy!


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Sounds like a plan to me, time to find a few more and try to make a little harem.

Now that we have some Apisto freaks in here, maybe you all can answer some Qs to help our little friend out... 

Anyone got sexing tips for this (eunotus?) Am I going to be shooting in the dark building a harem like sexing angels?

I've got two places in mind for him, both have cave like areas, one populated with 8 cories and the other tank just has a lone SAE patrolling around. Anyone think the cory tank is a bad idea? I know my cories don't mesh well with the SAE at dinner time, maybe the SAE and Apisto will match each other 'tude-wise. Maybe I'll just leave the Apisto in the 10gl QT for a while.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

The Apisto got along just fine with everything in my tanks except it loved eating RCS and it bullied the GBRs. Otos, Cories, Amanos, and Pristellas it's been fine with.

I haven't seen it back off from any fish. My GBRs were twice its size when I first added them to the 90gal. I think it could go either way with the SAE... though I suspect it will ignore the SAE as long as the SAE leaves it alone.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Jaidexl is now the proud owner of this little mysterious Apisto. It was _*just*_ starting to get some yellow and orange on its fins, so it will be interesting to see how s/he does for Jaide! :biggrin:

I forgot to ask Jaide if he's got a camera that might do this little guy more justice?


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

I will shortly after my fiance gets back from the airport with it.

Against my better judgment I put him straight into the 65gl after acclimating your water to mine, without quarantine. He was poking his head up at me the whole time talking me into it, seemed overly cool with everything happening.

He immediately went to attacking his reflection in the tank, lol. No prob with the cories, they just roll right over him like street cleaners and he doesn't seem to care much. Boy, you should have seen the stand off with Spike (my angelfish), Spike was coming in close for the stare down he always does with the n00bs, the little apisto's vertical bars popped out big time, he pancaked himself sideways so Spike can see how big he is (lol) and just kept backing up alittle at a time without giving in. Spike decided he was just another bottom feeder that probably doesn't taste as good as a tetra and resumed his food search.

I do see some orange tips on his dorsal, he's still getting up the guts to free roam, I think he's still wary of Spike. He's def the coolest fish I've had in the tank for awhile, thanks alot Laurelee! Hopefully I can find some more. I emailed boxlot and explained the situation hoping they might have some insight, no response yet.


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## captain_bu (Oct 20, 2007)

I was at Ocean Aquarium in San Francisco the other day and Justin had a whole tank full of a. eunotus that he got in recently. Neat looking fish. They have a bright red dot at the base of the pectoral fins. He started putting his recent arrivals list up on a blog. You can see a picture of two eunotus "locking lips" on the blog page. 

http://oceanaq.blogspot.com/2008/07/blog-post_17.html


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Well, in actuality, he's been "in QT" in my 29gal for about a month, all by himself (since he doesn't know how to play nice with GBRs)... so IMO you weren't taking the hugest risk. :biggrin: 

I would have loved to see that standoff with Spike- I can picture it, and it sounds classic! :hihi: This is one tough little Apisto... attitude to spare! I'm really glad he found a good home. :thumbsup: 

I'd be surprised if you get anywhere with Boxlot. They left a bad taste in my mouth at the end, and made it pretty clear that they only want to deal with companies placing large orders. But maybe your luck will be better, so here's hoping.

Captian- A. eunotus is the Apisto I think most resembles it so far, but the Apistos in that pic you linked are missing the black on the dorsal and on the front anal fins that are coming in pretty clearly on this guy. There's also no red dot, but that might still come with age.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Yeah, I've been back and forth with boxlot before, trying to get some of their "arowana tetras" which are probably some type of roeboides type fish or something (they have awful labeling on some fish). They told me they always get shipped straight to Japan and that they'd let me know if anything comes up. I'm not holding my breath anymore.



captain_bu said:


> They have a bright red dot at the base of the pectoral fins.


I think we're onto something now. Armed with that info I searched around and found this pic below, among others where the male was all colored up and the spot is really bright, here it looks like it's just coming in. I was checking out our guy's pectoral area earlier, concerned about a bit of redness, now I'm pretty sure it's exactly what I'm seeing here...

Dull pec spot, same as our guy IIRC, looks kinda like an infection









Full color









I'll have to inspect throughout the next few weeks as he colors up more. He's instantly morphed three different ways already so I wouldn't be surprised if he can eventually get as dark as the ones Captain linked, I imagine those could even be hybrids if they're not wilds.


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## Rod Hay (Feb 11, 2006)

First: I know I am no expert, just a newb!

From looking at the photos in post #25, I'm doubting that this would be _A. eunotus_. Linke & Staeck book Dwarf Cichlids list specific traits for determining _A. eunotus _(besides high-back, no large membranes on dorsal fin) to be: "only occasionally visible lateral band which ends in front of a upright rectangular caudal blotch." From the posted photos I'd say the fish in question has a very distinct lateral band. Also, the caudal blotch is very large. Running the full height of the caudal peduncle. The blotch on _A. eunotus _is shorter.

I picked up a pair of some wild caught in Peru _A. sp "Winklefleck"_ (Anglepatch) from Twofishguyz in the spring when I ordered some Pelvicachromis and other Apistos. These photos remind me a lot of my fish. Maybe? Of course, from researching about my fish on the Apistogramma Forum, I wonder if I have _A. sp. "Masken"_ instead??? Yes, these guys can be quite difficult to ID.

But, I do love my little wild guy. And if I had to describe him it would be Attitude! He took over the group of fry from Mom at about two weeks and drove her into hiding. Also took a strong dislike to the female platy in the tank. Chased her everytime he saw her. Even after the fry are now four months old. 

Just suggesting a few other possibilities. I'd wait until the fish is mature and settled in well. Then post some good quality photos, both here and for some of the [email protected] http://forum.apistogramma.com/. Especially before searching and spending money to obtain mates.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Rod Hay said:


> "only occasionally visible lateral band which ends in front of a upright rectangular caudal blotch." From the posted photos I'd say the fish in question has a very distinct lateral band.


Actually it is only occasional with him, most of the time it's faded, when he first arrived it was almost non existent. After a minute in the tank it was jet black, and during the stand off with an angelfish it was completely replaced by dark vertical bars from head to tail. Every iota of color in this guy is occasional, he morphs almost immediately in a weird cuttlefish sort of way. The only other coloration I've noticed is blue iridescence on the cheeks and parts of the body, a bit of orange tipping the dorsal, and faded red at the pec fin's base and tip of the anal fin I think, very faded. 

I'll have to look into this rectangular blotch.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

He's still trying to hide from me, these are the best I can do so far. Note that there also seems to be some iridescence in the tail.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I did some research on Apistogramma.com a while back, and several of the A. eunotos threads I read through said that this species hasn't been thoroughly researched yet and does tend to show a lot of variation. Some of the fish pics that were posted and labeled A. eunotos I wouldn't have guessed were even the same species. 

Jaide- The biggest difference I see between the pics you found of A. eunotos and your new little guy is neither of the fish in the pics have the stripe under the eye that this guy has had from day one.

IME he horizontal bar is usually present more often than not, as are the vertical bars, once he's acclimated. They do come and go with his moods, though- and you're right about how quickly the coloration will change!

There's definitely more orange and irridescence coming out in your pics than ever showed up in mine.  :thumbsup: I'd guess he's 6 months old at most, now. He was less than an inch long when I first got him. So maybe still another 6 months at least before he really starts showing his "true colors"?


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Yeah, time will tell I guess. I thought I saw that eye stripe in some other eunotus pics on apistogramma.com, maybe just females.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

How's he doing, Jaide?


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

He's fine, zooming around checking the place out. He's a little terror, likes to chase the cories out of certain spots but nothing too serious. I tried to catch a shot the other day with no luck, won't hold still. He/she doesn't really look any different from the last pic.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Glad he's doing well. :icon_smil I was hoping with another month gone by he'd be showing more color. Oh well, guess it's still "hurry up and wait" LOL Any more standoffs between him and Spike, or do they pretty much ignore each other now?


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

He gets his vertical tripes whenever they're close to each other, but Spike doesn't care about him. He's doing a decent job of learning my method of feeding bottom feeders in that tank, give Spike a couple pellets or wafers to chew on while he spreads food particles all over from his gills. :hihi: So the apisto is figuring out form the cories that Spike is a food dispenser.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Ok, some more shots from today...

There's a tad of artificial magenta tint in this first one, couldn't get it out without messing up the rest of the color. The red in the face and fins is pretty true.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Those pics are great, Jaide!

I so can't wait to see him some day all colored up!


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## Lorenmws (Jul 27, 2008)

How long is it at the moment? The finnage makes "him" look like a her.

Loren


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

You mean how long is the fish in length? About 1.25" or so.

I was also thinking he could be a she after seeing a bunch of female shots online that are close matches. Honestly, I've seen so many close matches I'm thinking I'll never know exactly what species this is.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Yeah, I agree.

I dubbed it a "him" just to make life easier and because s/he was such a tough character! LOL


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Jaide,

Is it just me, or do the un-ID'd Apistos in this auction look an awful lot like our little friend?

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwmixed&1221565183


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Only problem I see is the eyes, they seem to have gold around theirs while our guy has all black with a red dot on the back. Close though, hard to be sure with the crummy color in their pic.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Update time! I'm thinking we have a girl, seeing as [she's] turning very yellow all of the sudden, and I feel like I've seen a lot of yellow females while searching online. I reviewed the older posts for comparison, post 52 looks a bit yellow but I honestly have never seen it in person until now, looking at that pic in 52, the color of the vals etc suggests it was untrue color overall. The last few pics in post 59 are more true to how this fish has looked, kind of grey (as you're probably familiar with , Laura). Now look...










Fully ticked off...









Figures the brightest color is in the blurriest shot...









Swift change to no bars...


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## illumnae (Dec 27, 2007)

going by the black edged ventrals, i'd say female


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## midnightk (Sep 24, 2008)

lol looks like a girl a borelli. lol. nice find


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## Lorenmws (Jul 27, 2008)

Yep, looks to be a lady:thumbsup:

Loren


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

She's really coloring up! :thumbsup:


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Ok, what do you guys think?

A. regani image from apistogrammaidiots.com









Our un-ID'd fish









Another regani image from discoverlife.org









I'm pretty much sold, if I see a red caudal peduncle blotch develop, I'm definitely calling it A. regani, in fact, I think I already see it in post #66.


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## JustOneMore21 (May 23, 2006)

Wow....looks like a match to me!


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Yeah that's a really good match.

Jaide, from the pics it looks like she changes her coloration (especially the stripes) depending on whether she's over the white sand or the dark substrate in your tank - does that pan out with your experience?


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Somewhat, s/he mainly changes to a horizontal stripe when s/he (not sure of sex now, those others are males, so I'll call it a he now) is next to the glass, over the sand. And he's always arguing with his reflection so that might have something to do with it also. The full-on vertical bars are during cory chase off at feeding time, they're semi dark while he surveys for a target, then extremely dark right after darting the cories away, along with flared fins. Also very dark when Spike (angelfish) approaches. Medium dark mixed with horizontal stripe when I approach. Sometimes there's no black body marking whatsoever.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Oh geez, here we go again. A few folks on forum.apistogramma.com have been helping out. I thought this one was put to bed but I've got 1 vote for A. regani and now _2_ votes for A sp. 'masken'. And I found this shot of masken, http://apisto.sites.no/fish.aspx?fishIndexID=2256&gruppeID=1

Ugh, I'm ready to get more already. Does anyone know if these Apistos will coexist and pair up even if they're not the _exact_ species? They do interbreed and create variants, don't they? Maybe I should just wait longer.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

The pelvic fins look right, but the coloration on the operculum isn't right at all, unless your Apisto has developed more red than is showing up in the pics?

I think A. regani is closer than A. 'masken'. I think you should wait a bit longer, though- I bet one more month and you'll be able to feel fairly confident about a match.

I think like most cichlids, some species will hybridize and some won't. Given this one's aggression, I'd have a Plan B if you try to get it a mate in case they don't get along. It was pretty rough on my GBRs, and they were much bigger than it at the time.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Ok, 'masken' seems to one of a few subspecies of regani, I guess you could say. This is the latest news, _"your fish is apistogramma sp "masken" and that it is in the regani group and regani complex

the apistogramma regani is another species"_

I don't exactly know what groups and complexes are yet. And apparently we'll have to wait and see what the little guy has in store for "true colors".

Read here again, under 'taxonomy' and 'synonyms', http://apisto.sites.no/fish.aspx?fishIndexID=2256&gruppeID=1, "Peru-regani" is another one you named earlier in the thread.


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## captain_bu (Oct 20, 2007)

jaidexl said:


> Ugh, I'm ready to get more already. Does anyone know if these Apistos will coexist and pair up even if they're not the _exact_ species? They do interbreed and create variants, don't they? Maybe I should just wait longer.


I picked up two pairs of Apistos yesterday from Ocean Aquarium in San Francisco. A pair of A. agassizi and a pair of A. bitaeniata both wild strains. Before I purchased I asked Justin if there would be a problem keeping them in the same tank and with them interbreeding. He told me essentially that they won't interbreed because they are two different families of apistos. The bitaeniata are in the same family as A. cacatuoides and if I were to mix those with A. bitaeniata they would interbreed but he said bitaeniata won't interbreed with agassizi. If the info I was given is correct then you will probably need to nail down a better ID for your mystery cichlid in order to find a potential mate.


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## illumnae (Dec 27, 2007)

the information given to you was wrong. Firstly, Ap. bitaeniata is not in the same complex as Ap. cacatuoides. Secondly, same-group apistos do not necessarily interbreed either. I know Ap. bitaeniata and Ap. pauciquaimis won't interbreed, nor have I heard of Ap. cacatuoides interbreeding with Ap. sp "Black Chin". The only interbreeding reports I've heard of are Ap. viejita with Ap. macmasteri.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Jaide, every pic I can find of A. regani online so far looks like a pretty good matchup.

http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Apistogramma_regani.php

http://www.thekrib.com/Apisto/A-regani.html

http://www.fishbase.org/summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=46687

http://www.picsearch.com/search.cgi...fqHlxYVe2zZn+z4HyVwmvg=&nav1&cols=5&thumbs=20

In addition to the ones you already posted...

Between the cheek stripe, tail markings and black body pattern, I at least am about 80% now...


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

I've decided to ask Apisto Dave, he's been dealing with these critters for ages, and will most likely be the source of tank mates. I'll probably wait until I have money for expensive fish before I bother him, by then we'll be able to see more color, hopefully.

Some of the regani's are dead ringers, and some not so much, hard to tell when these fish are color morphing so much. The only problem I'm having with making a solid decision via online photos is that I haven't found nearly as many "Masken" pics. I have seen a few regani pics with strong red striations in the operculum, too. I guess we also have to take into account that some of these people uploading pics don't know exactly what _they_ have either. I'm sure Dave will know, I hope he will.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Keep in mind that I'm fairly certain the fish came from Peru, too, when you do talk to him- that's where all the fish I ordered from BoxLot originated. I'll definitely be interested in his opinion. :thumbsup:


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

lol

He said "looks like eunotus to me". 

Oh lordy lodry, you're going to live out life as one lonely little fish, my friend. :icon_roll:icon_roll:icon_roll:icon_roll:icon_roll


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Lol


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

For what it's worth, a lot of the old discussion surrounding these "regani group" apistos, including old synonyms and close species misidentified by importers -Carapintada, Apache, Winkelfleck, Masken/Masked etc etc- were held by Mike Wise and Julio Melgar, some as far back as 2000 on thekrib.com. It just so happens that Mike and Julio are the two who believe ours is ["a young male(?)"] A. sp. "Masken". Just from the multitude of info and depth these guys have gone into in the past on this subject, I'm feeling like they are the best bet for positive ID here. 

Here's the thread if you feel like reading more, http://forum.apistogramma.com/showthread.php?p=44711#post44711

I should also note that the label on that spitting image Regani shot I added in post 71, from apistogrammaidiots (Apisto Dave), had a big question mark next to it's name.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

So another month down the road... he/she/it have any more color?


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Nope, pretty much the same  Hard to tell though, through the thick wall of dead GDA that won't go away. 

Remember the "diatoms" I was dealing with for five months, well I'm pretty sure it was GDA, just showing up brown and dead on leaves and glass before it showed as green. Right after I started taking steps to get rid of it in the old 65gl journal, it exploded green on the glass and was clearly GDA, not diatoms. I've never seen it attack leaves before, but it's happening now. I let it die, cleaned the glass maybe a day too early, and it came back. Now it's back to dead brown sludge, just waiting for the cleanup crew to clear it up (I'm certainly not touching it this time). Rich has a bunch of otos in QT that I'll be nabbing very soon, hopefully Spike doesn't eat any of them. :icon_roll

Want some olive nerites?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Ooo actually, I would like a few! Not many, just a few for my 29gal. I'll trade an Amano or two if you'd like, I just got 30 from miliac and it's really more than I need...

You going out of town for Thanksgiving or will you be around?


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Yeah, I'm home, working the first half of the day though :/

I'll warn you, I don't want the nerites anymore because I'm sick of their little white eggs everywhere, they make a tank look like it has glass-ich. Cleaning them off isn't so hard but as stated before, there is no way I'm touching my glass again for awhile, mother nature will stop by and clean it eventually. If you still want them, I have three. I'll foster some cherries if you really have too many to house, otherwise it's no biggy.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I'll have plenty of Cherries as soon as my shrimplets grow up but right now they're too small to move (less than 1mm)... want to take a rain check on them?


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

No problem. Want to meet up for the snails, or we can be lazy and I'll mail them, they should do fine in this weather.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

PMing you to work it out.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

He/she/it is getting red striations on the gill plate, similar to the 'masken' pics.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Updated with pics... enjoy the thread algae :biggrin:


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

If you hadn't pointed it out, I wouldn't have noticed! LOL

He/she/it is really starting to look nice :thumbsup:

I should have some RCS that are ready to go for you after Xmas, they're growing like weeds! I've got at least 3 clutches that have hatched and about another half dozen berried females, still, plus some more saddled... I think they like Naples City water better than they ever did my well water here at home.


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## esteroali (Oct 24, 2007)

*Rcs???*

Jaide come get all the RCS you want!!!You know where i live. I have 100's!
Damien


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Still gotta sort out space for the shrimp.


New possibility for the fish ID, http://apisto.sites.no/fish.aspx?fishIndexID=2284&gruppeID=1


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Oh yeah, s/he was a terror with RCS in my 90gal, I watched him/her rip one big female apart! :icon_eek:

There you go- Apistogramma sp. "Schwarzbrust" ; in the A. regani complex, found in Peru. :thumbsup: Dead ringer, too.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Yeah, I'm still not seeing the strong red pattern as in 'masken', that one is definitely closer with a more subtle pattern.

Google only brought a few good hits, low and behold Mike Wise (one of the guys who says 'masken') is in a few of those. Seems he got his hands on the "Schwarzbrust"/Black-breast down in Peru a few years ago, and was discussing it on the Krib back in '02. So, hopefully he'll have an easy time figuring this one in. Just waiting and hoping he responds to the apistogramma.com thread.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Update. 

Laura, your little fish is a pure, all out monster.

He's become extremely aggressive lately. Probably mad about the SAE I added after converting the tank to low tech. At feeding time, he bites corydoras, the SAE, _and_ the angelfish  That angelfish is the meanest, most dominating fish I've ever had, he's at the point where he just doesn't know what to do with that little fish, he's tried biting back but the little monster doesn't give!

So, now the fun part of this story. I moved the Apisto to a 10gl with some Boraras and Malaysian trumpet snails. I watched for about a half an hour to see how he reacts to the Boraras. The Apisto is a SNAIL KILLER! He's taken out a dozen so far. He seems to be swallowing the tiny babies whole, but when he attacks the large ones, he grabs their head and shakes them around frantically like a dog, then leaves them to die as if it's a dominance display. He's picking up empty, corroded shells and turning them into sand! WTF, WHAT A LITTLE MONSTER!!!

So, being that the 10gl cannot handle the toxic mess from a dead colony of MTS, I moved him to a plant scrap bucket... that just so happens to be filled with MTS. Now I have to figure out what to do, shift fish around and all that good stuff.:icon_roll What a little freak, now I know why I can't keep snails alive in the 65gl, I couldn't understand how they were all dying within days and there's no CO2 running, thought the substrate was rotten.


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## MedRed (May 20, 2008)

OMG! I've never had an apisto with such an evil demeanor. That's kind of cool though!


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

He is cool, but he's making me mad right now. He even sits there and flairs at _me_, and tries to bite through the glass. My Angelfish is the only one that's ever done that, and a new Killi I just got. The Apisto does it with real hatred though, they seem to do it out of hunger. He's lucky I don't throw him in with my mantis shrimp. That would teach him! 

I think I'm going to move him to a 30gl with tetras, but I have to remove some other occupants after I get my new tank set up.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Snail Killer is now in the 30gl with tetras. He immediately stomped the grounds like an early release state prisoner, I'm sure he's happy to be out of the bucket. The second thing he did after going in is pick a few MTS shells off the floor, but he's mainly busy flaring at the tetras and checking out the nice real estate.

My theory now is that the snail killing in the 10gl, which sits on the floor in a dim room, might have been due to his reflection in the glass, maybe he was displaying to "another apisto" the way a Flagfish chomps plants. But the way he'd come up close to their faces, wait a sec, then grab and shake, seemed like he was really intent on harming MTS for whatever reason. :confused1:


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Holy Cow!

Maybe he just hit sexual maturity and his hormones have gone bonkers? :icon_eek:


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Haha, yeah, lots of sexual tension between him and the MTS, he has shell envy. :icon_lol:


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

ROFL

Hey- you going to Sebring on Saturday to the guppy farm?


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## Left C (Nov 15, 2003)

jaidexl said:


> He is cool, but he's making me mad right now. He even sits there and flairs at _me_, and tries to bite through the glass. My Angelfish is the only one that's ever done that, and a new Killi I just got. The Apisto does it with real hatred though, they seem to do it out of hunger. He's lucky I don't throw him in with my mantis shrimp. That would teach him!
> 
> I think I'm going to move him to a 30gl with tetras, but I have to remove some other occupants after I get my new tank set up.


Have you had it tested for rabies? :hihi:

What a fish!


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