# How important are RED LED's?



## Krupin2 (Mar 9, 2011)

My tank currently has 1 LED fixture and I'd like to add a 2nd. I currently have a BML Dutch XP but I don't want to spend $200+ on a second unit. I just need something to provide supplimental light to the back of the aquarium. 

I'm considering Finnex Planted + Vrs the Ray2 daylight. *My concern is the lack of red LED's on the planted+. How big of a role do the red's play on the growth? * Also FINNEX said the Planted+ was designed for low light/low tech tanks? Do I lose anything by taking the greater output of the RAY2 that doesn't feature red LEDs? 

___________________________________________________________
Tank: Fluval OSAKA 155 W 24in (L/R) x D 18in (F/B) x H 24in (T/B) - 42 Gallons 
Fertilizer: Estimated Index Method
Co2: Pressurized and injected into reactor 
Plants: My plan is for a mix of ground cover, reds, & greens. I want to add more color to the tank. 
Current Lighting: (1) 24" Build My LED Dutch XP


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## rcs0926 (Jun 14, 2013)

The red LEDs are a fairly new innovation when it comes to aquarium lighting. They are supposed to help in terms of plant growth, but the fact that many experienced aquarists have been able to growth beautiful plants in their tanks for years without this new innovation should tell you all you need to know about the necessity of red LEDs. 

As for which fixture you should choose, it depends on what plants you have or want to grow towards the back of your tank.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Krupin2 said:


> My tank currently has 1 LED fixture and I'd like to add a 2nd. I currently have a BML Dutch XP but I don't want to spend $200+ on a second unit. I just need something to provide supplimental light to the back of the aquarium.
> 
> ground cover, reds, & greens. I want to add more color to the tank.
> Current Lighting: (1) 24" Build My LED Dutch XP


consider the current plus fw as a supplemental light.........
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=26107


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## Steve001 (Feb 26, 2011)

rcs0926 said:


> The red LEDs are a fairly new innovation when it comes to aquarium lighting. They are supposed to help in terms of plant growth, but the fact that many experienced aquarists have been able to growth beautiful plants in their tanks for years without this new innovation should tell you all you need to know about the necessity of red LEDs.
> 
> As for which fixture you should choose, it depends on what plants you have or want to grow towards the back of your tank.


Your logic is off. Plants need red light as much as they do blue.
The reason plants grow under lights that don't apparently emit red light is because they do emit red light. Even way back long before there was any talk of PAR the dutch (for their dutch style ) were using combination lighting to provide as full a spectrum from red to blue to achieve lush growth.


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## Steve001 (Feb 26, 2011)

Krupin2 said:


> I'm considering Finnex Planted + Vrs the Ray2 daylight. *My concern is the lack of red LED's on the planted+. How big of a role do the red's play on the growth? * Also FINNEX said the Planted+ was designed for low light/low tech tanks? Do I lose anything by taking the greater output of the RAY2 that doesn't feature red LEDs?


There is a plethora of scientific info on this topic on the web. It is important.


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## tipsy mcstager (Feb 3, 2013)

with no regard to "necessity " or "scientific info "

i use the ten strip kit from here, very good price.
sounds like you could use the 4 strip kit.

(sorry for the ton of photos, but i like to show off):icon_redf


http://www.barlighting.com/led-strip-kits-s/1818.htm


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## rcs0926 (Jun 14, 2013)

Steve001 said:


> Your logic is off. Plants need red light as much as they do blue.
> The reason plants grow under lights that don't apparently emit red light is because they do emit red light. Even way back long before there was any talk of PAR the dutch (for their dutch style ) were using combination lighting to provide as full a spectrum from red to blue to achieve lush growth.


I think if you're able to get a light fixture with red LEDs, you should by all means do it. However, the OP was talking about the necessity of doing so. I don't see how anyone can consider red LEDs a necessity when aquarists have had tremendous success for years using fixtures that didn't include these lights. That's all I'm saying.


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## Steve001 (Feb 26, 2011)

rcs0926 said:


> I think if you're able to get a light fixture with red LEDs, you should by all means do it. However, the OP was talking about the necessity of doing so. I don't see how anyone can consider red LEDs a necessity when aquarists have had tremendous success for years using fixtures that didn't include these lights. That's all I'm saying.


I wasn't saying red leds are a must have. Just red light is a must have for good plant growth. Meaning growing as they would under natural light. But if he is using one type of led then the red portion of the needed spectrum may be deficient. See what I mean?


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## rcs0926 (Jun 14, 2013)

Steve001 said:


> I wasn't saying red leds are a must have. Just red light is a must have for good plant growth. Meaning growing as they would under natural light. But if he is using one type of led then the red portion of the needed spectrum may be deficient. See what I mean?


Gotcha.


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## DaveFish (Oct 7, 2011)

You are all way off. Chlorophyll A is most sensitive to red light. Any good fluorescent aquarium bulb peaks in the red spectrum. The reason LEDs do need them is because LEDs give out one specific nanometer of wavelength. A 7000k LED fixture only gives out one specific nanomemter of light where as a 7000k fluorescent bulb gives off an array of wavelengths. LEDs can grow plants pretty good, but in my experience they don't grow them as well as T5HOs or halides. They are too efficient for their own good. That is why higher end LEDs do have a tri-color or bi-color mix and this is why Finnex is joining the club and especially why they need to put high output red LEDs on the Ray II!! Which I am sure they are working on. I could go on and on about the science of lighting and why plants are red or the true reasons they turn red, but I won't. Take my word for it!


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

There are a ton of "pink" / "grow" T8 and T5 bulbs on the market.

With LEDs,

Finnex is currently stuck at 7,000K with Ray 2 (one of the reasons why I sent it back when they just came out). There are multiple threads on TPT where people are using a second supplemental LED fixture with Ray 2.

BML essentially locks you into specific spectral ranges once you select your LED combinations. Just look at how many "pre-canned" versions they currently have. If you err on the red-heavy combination, the tank looks like s moment after shark attack.

Current USA took a different approach with their + model where some of the LEDs are RGB, allowing the end user to adjust the spectrum to their liking.

You can also use red LED strips, but what "red" do you want?

v3


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## tipsy mcstager (Feb 3, 2013)

see what you started KRUPin?:red_mouth

so by so by virtue of my two tank shots (two months of growth) i must be doing something right with just 4 T8s, and RGB leds :thumbsup:

_"You can also use red LED strips, but what "red" do you want?"_

i like that last button on the left, the yellowish one on the bottom!
then the blue one next to it, at night.................................................lol


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## Positron (Jul 22, 2013)

DaveFish said:


> You are all way off. Chlorophyll A is most sensitive to red light. Any good fluorescent aquarium bulb peaks in the red spectrum. The reason LEDs do need them is because LEDs give out one specific nanometer of wavelength. A 7000k LED fixture only gives out one specific nanomemter of light where as a 7000k fluorescent bulb gives off an array of wavelengths. LEDs can grow plants pretty good, but in my experience they don't grow them as well as T5HOs or halides. They are too efficient for their own good. That is why higher end LEDs do have a tri-color or bi-color mix and this is why Finnex is joining the club and especially why they need to put high output red LEDs on the Ray II!! Which I am sure they are working on. I could go on and on about the science of lighting and why plants are red or the true reasons they turn red, but I won't. Take my word for it!


A 7000k LED fixture only gives off one specific nm of light? And which is that? Because My finnex 7k light looks mostly white to me meaning it contains light from all parts of the visible spectrum. The kelvin values of an led fixture match up pretty well to t5's when we talk about scientific experimentation between the two. 

A good read on the different aspects of lighting, and where I got the info is from here:
http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/aquarium_lighting.html

The reason why companies put LED's of different colors in there is mostly because it makes things more visually appealing to the human eye. It can also boost plant growth, but that is best achieved using a 5-10k kelvin range and upping the intensity (PAR).


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## JeffE (Oct 8, 2013)

Some terrestrial plant people say that red grows plants leggy and blue more compact, I got a www.reefbreeders.com led with 55 3w leds and chose a custom spectrum with an even mix of red and blue. Besides the growth factor, adding reds will help show off the red plants you have. Also a 7000k led does let out more than one nm of light. Even specific nm leds are letting out a small range of nm. http://www.1023world.net/diy/spectra/ there is a awesome calculator to see how all the different led spectrums add up. Select English in the bottom left. There is an image of the spectrum I chose as I felt it gave a good smooth full spectrum mix with a focus on reds and blues while also looking good to the eye.
http://api.ning.com/files/BlSO3TVin...jHJQ047TPRW0dNvu-zEb6lWagzixVs9imPTd/leds.png


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## pwu_1 (Oct 28, 2013)

Will the 5050 RGB strip lights that they sell on fleabay and amazon provide the correct type of red light? I recently got a ray2 and then built another light using 5 strips of the RGB 5050 light. When both lights are on(the RGB light only has the red turned on) you can barely see the red because the ray2 is so bright. I'm just wondering if the red light is helping at all or if I'm just kidding myself


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

JeffE said:


> Some terrestrial plant people say that red grows plants leggy and blue more compact


My own circumstantial evidence seems to show this in "some" aquatics..


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

12 days growth under 20W 660nm red and asst whites and actinic blue
sporadic CO2 supplementation, slight dosing of phosphate and trace elements.:


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## Steve001 (Feb 26, 2011)

JeffE said:


> Some terrestrial plant people say that red grows plants leggy and blue more compact, I got a www.reefbreeders.com led with 55 3w leds and chose a custom spectrum with an even mix of red and blue. Besides the growth factor, adding reds will help show off the red plants you have. Also a 7000k led does let out more than one nm of light. Even specific nm leds are letting out a small range of nm. http://www.1023world.net/diy/spectra/ there is a awesome calculator to see how all the different led spectrums add up. Select English in the bottom left. There is an image of the spectrum I chose as I felt it gave a good smooth full spectrum mix with a focus on reds and blues while also looking good to the eye.


That's a very useful diy app.


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## Kubla (Jan 5, 2014)

Short term growth is also a lot different than long term health. We did and experiment way back in junior high growing beans under different colors of light. The ones that grew the fastest were in darkness. They looked horrible, no color, stretched out leggy and just unhealthy looking. But they shot up really quickly for the couple of weeks that we had.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Probably the worst light meter we can use is our eyes! Our eyes, on average, are not good for comparing the intensity of red vs. blue light. And, to complicate things even more, what we see as red actually is a mix of red and blue. "Red" light can have an amazing variety of spectrums - see the charts showing spectral transmittance of various gel filters on http://www.rosco.com/filters/roscolux.cfm 

Plants grow well with many different spectrums of light, and I suspect that all of them have significant amounts of red wavelengths in them. No "white" LED that I have seen a spectrum for was totally lacking in red portions of the spectrum. I continue to believe that adding red LEDs, blue LEDs, green LEDs, etc. to our tank lighting is beneficial only for making the resulting aquascape look best to our eyes. (We could also discuss the fact that what I see as red isn't the same thing that you see as red - and some people see a very limited range of colors.)


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Hoppy said:


> I continue to believe that adding red LEDs, blue LEDs, green LEDs, etc. to our tank lighting is beneficial only for making the resulting aquascape look best to our eyes.


Tell that to the greenhouse people..


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

Hoppy said:


> . No "white" LED that I have seen a spectrum for was totally lacking in red portions of the spectrum. I continue to believe that adding red LEDs, blue LEDs, green LEDs, etc. to our tank lighting is beneficial only for making the resulting aquascape look best to our eyes.


Finally!!!! Thank you, it was getting a bit ridiculous with this new wave of tossing in "blue, red, purple, orange" colour because they're a must. 

People forget that white light can also have the required spectrum, you don't need fancy weird colours. 

6500K CFL 









Full Spectrum MicMol LED w/ White 100% Colour at a lower value. 










@Jeff

Good point, but there also another hobby that grow plants with weird spectrum. The entire room has a red or blue or purple look, it all depends on what "yield" they're going for. 

An example, if you want them to flower, it's red, if you want compact its blue. 

*Note - It's not really red or blue, I'm just using them as an example. I don't grow those type of plants.

PS - Forgot to mention, Jeff you have to consider the plant you use as a example. If you get something that is a fast grower and not picky, it will grow regardless. Get a plant that is hard to grow and see if blue or red spectrum will be any different from white.


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## scapegoat (Jun 3, 2010)

DaveFish said:


> You are all way off. Chlorophyll A is most sensitive to red light. Any good fluorescent aquarium bulb peaks in the red spectrum. The reason LEDs do need them is because LEDs give out one specific nanometer of wavelength. A 7000k LED fixture only gives out one specific nanomemter of light where as a 7000k fluorescent bulb gives off an array of wavelengths. LEDs can grow plants pretty good, but in my experience they don't grow them as well as T5HOs or halides. They are too efficient for their own good. That is why higher end LEDs do have a tri-color or bi-color mix and this is why Finnex is joining the club and especially why they need to put high output red LEDs on the Ray II!! Which I am sure they are working on. I could go on and on about the science of lighting and why plants are red or the true reasons they turn red, but I won't. Take my word for it!


the reason you're way off is because white light, regardless of source, contains the full wavelength of visible 'colors'. that is why white light appears white to us... and also why, in a completely dark room devoid of all light save for a single 6500k LED shining on something "red" will we still see that item as red.

if you head: http://www.bmlcustom.com/custom-led-strip/ and drag a single 6500k white LED to the "board" you'll get a ton of readings.

or just look at this










I'm not sure what science you're privy to; but it must not be the same as the rest of us.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

FlyingHellFish said:


> Finally!!!! Thank you, it was getting a bit ridiculous with this new wave of tossing in "blue, red, purple, orange" colour because they're a must.
> 
> People forget that white light can also have the required spectrum, you don't need fancy weird colours.


Generally true. Adding "colors" for me is like this.. Say I have 30"w" of neutral white LEDS.
I add 30W of 660nm red LEDS I have, arguably doubled plus PAR, added the ability to do sunrise/sunset and probably increased the height of growth.. IF I grow those plants under say actinic/high white.. they will grow compact and bushy. You actually admitted that yourself.. 

SEE:


FlyingHellFish said:


> Good point, but there also another hobby that grow plants with weird spectrum. The entire room has a red or blue or purple look, it all depends on what "yield" they're going for.
> 
> An example, if you want them to flower, it's red, if you want compact its blue.


ADD this:


FlyingHellFish said:


> Get a plant that is hard to grow and see if blue or red spectrum will be any different from white.


Technically can you see the contradiction???

Sure "we" can get a bit carried away.. Like adding a 20# CO2 tank.. or enough filtration for a small municipality water system.. Or precision needle valves to "split" a bubble...Or $100's dollars worth of fish and plants..

Oh and one more thing.. Some people want to 'mimic" natural sunlight as close as possible.. and w/ LED's you have no choice but to "add" for the cyan gap to be as "flat" as possible... 


See visible part.. do they "have to"????


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## Steve001 (Feb 26, 2011)

scapegoat said:


> the reason you're way off is because white light, regardless of source, contains the full wavelength of visible 'colors'. that is why white light appears white to us... and also why, in a completely dark room devoid of all light save for a single 6500k LED shining on something "red" will we still see that item as red.
> 
> if you head: http://www.bmlcustom.com/custom-led-strip/ and drag a single 6500k white LED to the "board" you'll get a ton of readings.
> 
> ...


To the underlined part. That's not true. A light source only has to produce three colors to produce white.


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## Kubla (Jan 5, 2014)

World English Dictionary
white light

— n
light that contains all the wavelengths of visible light at approximately equal intensities, as in sunlight or the light from white-hot solids


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Steve001 said:


> To the underlined part. That's not true. A light source only has to produce three colors to produce white.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Steve001 said:


> To the underlined part. That's not true. A light source only has to produce three colors to produce white.


If we know from experience that an object is red, we will see it as red in a wide variety of lighting schemes, even those involving little, if any, red in their spectrum. Our brains adjust the colors to match what they are known by us to be. You can do some experimenting to see how effective our brains are at this, but if you carry it to extremes the results can be very disorientating. Remember the colors we see are just interpretations by our brains of a mix of light wavelengths. Plants don't have a brain, so I suspect they can't adjust reality quite as easily. I also think that reef tank hobbyists see their tanks as being white, when we planted tank hobbyists know they are a very ugly blue:hihi:


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

jeffkrol said:


> Generally true. Adding "colors" for me is like this.. Say I have 30"w" of neutral white LEDS.
> I add 30W of 660nm red LEDS I have, arguably doubled plus PAR, added the ability to do sunrise/sunset and probably increased the height of growth.. IF I grow those plants under say actinic/high white.. they will grow compact and bushy. You actually admitted that yourself..





I didn't admit that, I was using those two colours as examples. I added a *Note, right after that statement.

"*Note - It's not really red or blue, I'm just using them as an example. I don't grow those type of plants."

I'm just saying when it comes with our hobby, we probably won't need to go as crazy high in colour like other... *ahem hobbies. You said something about green house, naw we won't need something that crazy.


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## AndreyT (Apr 28, 2011)

Kubla said:


> World English Dictionary
> white light
> 
> — n
> light that contains all the wavelengths of visible light at approximately equal intensities, as in sunlight or the light from white-hot solids


Even though someone might define a _canonical_ "white light" as a mix of all visible wavelength, it does not necessarily the case with any light source that produces light perceived by us as white. What we see as white light is not required to contain _all_ the wavelengths of visible light. White light can be obtained by mixing only a specific wavelength of red, a specific wavelength of green and a specific wavelength of blue, for one example. But it is true that any source of white light will have red in it. Which means that it is possible to have a light that looks white, and yet doesn't work well for plant growth because its red component does not cover the right wavelength.


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## Steve001 (Feb 26, 2011)

Hoppy said:


> If we know from experience that an object is red, we will see it as red in a wide variety of lighting schemes, even those involving little, if any, red in their spectrum. Our brains adjust the colors to match what they are known by us to be. You can do some experimenting to see how effective our brains are at this, but if you carry it to extremes the results can be very disorientating. Remember the colors we see are just interpretations by our brains of a mix of light wavelengths. Plants don't have a brain, so I suspect they can't adjust reality quite as easily. I also think that reef tank hobbyists see their tanks as being white, when we planted tank hobbyists know they are a very ugly blue:hihi:


I know what you mean. Way way back I used to use a metal halide bulb on my tank, after awhile the tank would appear normal in color (my brain did a white balance in a manner of speaking) though the color itself was a bit warm. Yet if I wanted to, I could return to seeing the color of the tank as it actually was- a bit on the warm side.

For a light to produce white apparent light it needs to produce only three colors which are red, green, blue, but does not need a full range of color output as the one poster stated.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Steve001 said:


> I know what you mean. Way way back I used to use a metal halide bulb on my tank, after awhile the tank would appear normal in color (my brain did a white balance in a manner of speaking) though the color itself was a bit warm. Yet if I wanted to, I could return to seeing the color of the tank as it actually was- a bit on the warm side.
> 
> For a light to produce white apparent light it needs to produce only three colors which are red, green, blue, but does not need a full range of color output as the one poster stated.


I'm not so sure that "white" light requires even those three colors to be present. Way back when I was much younger I was hiking in one of Arizona's parks, where they had chemical toilets at various spots along this particular trail. Those had green fiberglass roofs. When I was using one, which also had white toilet paper available, I notice how green the light was when I first entered, but soon didn't notice it. When I exited I almost fell down because every thing in sight, from the sky to the sand, was red! I thought I had suffered permanent damage to my eyes. But, in a few minutes the normal colors all returned. This was my brain doing a "white balance" on the white toilet paper in a room with only green light available. When I exited, that white balance stayed in effect, turning everything to the complement of green - red. So, I think a white sheet of paper will soon look white no matter what light you shine on it.


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## mattD (Mar 29, 2014)

It seems pretty clear that the white LEDs in say the finnex ray 2 do have a range of different parts of the spectrum. It seems though that the range has less emphasis on red than say the CFls many of use have used over the years, some of which had several spikes, including a spike in the fed zone. The question is wether the weighting of the white CFCs are such that we should be supplementing with additional red? And what about the marineland red supplement led? Has anyone used it in combination with one of the non red heavy led lights, like ray 2?


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## scapegoat (Jun 3, 2010)

Steve001 said:


> To the underlined part. That's not true. A light source only has to produce three colors to produce white.


that i did not know. very cool!

My only exposure to light and science is through an astronomy course. I know that light is white if it contains light across various wavelengths.


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## skanderson (Jul 25, 2010)

I haven't seen anyone mention this yet so here goes. I read somewhere recently that adding additional red wavelengths to a light helps reduce etiolation thus giving more compact growth. the study was done on tomatos I believe. and just to correct something on a post from page 1 of the thread there are leds that put out just one wavelength of light but all the white leds are using phosphor coatings to produce a mix of wavelengths that appear white a good measure of how full spectrum the light is isn't the color temperature but the cri rating. also high color temp leds tend to have low CRI rating because they are deficient in the warmer wavelengths compared to sunlight.


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## Steve001 (Feb 26, 2011)

Hoppy said:


> I'm not so sure that "white" light requires even those three colors to be present. Way back when I was much younger I was hiking in one of Arizona's parks, where they had chemical toilets at various spots along this particular trail. Those had green fiberglass roofs. When I was using one, which also had white toilet paper available, I notice how green the light was when I first entered, but soon didn't notice it. When I exited I almost fell down because every thing in sight, from the sky to the sand, was red! I thought I had suffered permanent damage to my eyes. But, in a few minutes the normal colors all returned. This was my brain doing a "white balance" on the white toilet paper in a room with only green light available. When I exited, that white balance stayed in effect, turning everything to the complement of green - red. So, I think a white sheet of paper will soon look white no matter what light you shine on it.


We are discussing two different things. What you experienced is called _color constancy_ which I have experienced myself. Light producing devices like tv's and smartphone screens need to make three colors of light so nearly all colors can be reproduced including white.
A good vid. The first 2:30 minutes are what should be watched


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

Think about it this way - 

_Can Red or Blue, or a wider spectrum help in plant growth?_ 
Well yeah, you're adding more light. 

_Is it absolutely needed?_ 
I'm not yet convinced. Look at those ADA AquaSky LED tanks, they have colourful plants and not a single dedicated red or blue led. Their "white" light already covers that part of the spectrum. 
I don't think it would hurt if you add red or blue, but I also don't think it an absolute requirement if you already have a light source in those wave lengths.


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## JeffE (Oct 8, 2013)

So I spent quite a bit of time trying to make a spectrum for my 51 3w led fixture that maximized my PUR/watt levels. It came out looking really really purple with 24 neutrals, 3 warm whites 12 deep red, 12 blue. Today I switched out 4 deep red for 4 3500k warm whites and 4 blue for 2 7500k and 2 14000k whites, while its less efficient for the plants I had tons of extra % I can run the leds at as I was only using 10% color channel and 25% whites at the most during the day. This was at 35 par in the center of the substrate in my tank with the led 36" away from substrate with 120* optics. Now the light is running up to 27% same 35 par and looks much better to my eyes. I still might want it a slight bit warmer of a color but it made me realize in the end it doesnt matter how efficiently we are growing the plants we want them to look good to our eyes and its all subjective. Not much was learned other than figure out what looks good to your eye especially if you have the extra power to throw around easily. With super efficient lighting as we have now we can afford to make the tank apparently brighter with some loss of PUR and I highly doubt I'll be able to tell a difference in growth. We will see in a few weeks as long as I don't let the co2 run out. Also if you aren't playing with this yet, do it http://www.1023world.net/diy/spectra/ My most recent project is figure out what mix of LEDs most closely match the sun, sadly for the led I'm using with Bridgelux chips its fairly hard to find a Cyan led.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

JeffE said:


> My most recent project is figure out what mix of LEDs most closely match the sun, sadly for the led I'm using with Bridgelux chips its fairly hard to find a Cyan led.


Why not use this one??
http://shop.stevesleds.com/Philips-Luxeon-ES-Cyan-3-Watt-LEDs-Luxeon-ES-Cyan.htm


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## JeffE (Oct 8, 2013)

I need them not on chips. But bare diodes in this configuration http://reefbreeders.com/shop/single-color-diodes/


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

JeffE said:


> I need them not on chips. But bare diodes in this configuration http://reefbreeders.com/shop/single-color-diodes/


not only is it hard to find but they are also cheating.. 
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=569690&highlight=


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## Steve001 (Feb 26, 2011)

JeffE said:


> I need them not on chips. But bare diodes in this configuration http://reefbreeders.com/shop/single-color-diodes/


I wonder what a yellow 585nm diode would do for achieving this goal of reproducing sunlight?


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## JeffE (Oct 8, 2013)

I don't think it would help, there is plenty of yellow in the warm, neutral and cool white leds, check out http://www.1023world.net/diy/spectra/ and try to make a spectrum using just the Cree 1w lineup that closely resembles the sun. Its pretty easy to do just need to find a version of cyan that will fit my actual fixture. I think it will be harder to pick on sun spectrum graph we can all agree on to aim for.


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## Steve001 (Feb 26, 2011)

JeffE said:


> I don't think it would help, there is plenty of yellow in the warm, neutral and cool white leds, check out http://www.1023world.net/diy/spectra/ and try to make a spectrum using just the Cree 1w lineup that closely resembles the sun. Its pretty easy to do just need to find a version of cyan that will fit my actual fixture. I think it will be harder to pick on sun spectrum graph we can all agree on to aim for.


 I played with that app a few weeks ago, but there's no true yellow.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

tipsy mcstager said:


> i use the ten strip kit from here, very good price.


For a lot less you could get RGB or RGBW kit from fleeEbay and cut it to how you want it. 

Is there more than 1 power source or did you connect the rows with electrical devices?


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## limz_777 (Jun 29, 2005)

Hoppy said:


> If we know from experience that an object is red, we will see it as red in a wide variety of lighting schemes, even those involving little, if any, red in their spectrum. Our brains adjust the colors to match what they are known by us to be. You can do some experimenting to see how effective our brains are at this, but if you carry it to extremes the results can be very disorientating. Remember the colors we see are just interpretations by our brains of a mix of light wavelengths. Plants don't have a brain, so I suspect they can't adjust reality quite as easily. I also think that reef tank hobbyists see their tanks as being white, when we planted tank hobbyists know they are a very ugly blue:hihi:


ugly blue indeed :hihi: , thats explain the dark side


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## sushant (Mar 3, 2007)

From what I have read use of white Led is a shotgun approach for providing the wavelengths required for photosynthesis. This surely works in most of the case but there are certain wavelengths which is useless for plants. Also things like CCT, CRI, wattage, etc doesn't really decides the effectiveness of lights for plant but PAR and PUR(photo active useful radiation). For eg. 100 W White LED may actually have a much lower wattage which would actually be useful for our purpose and here the mixing of different colors comes into play.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Hmmm.. how important are red LED's for plants????


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## mrbigshot (Sep 14, 2014)

you see red in quite a bit of flowering applications, vegetative growth is dominated by blue., they view 6500k as blue as well.


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