# cherry shrimp and UV



## auban (Jun 23, 2012)

has anyone exposed their cherry shrimp to high levels of UV? I ask because I have a tank with cherry shrimp on which I put some high UV producing lights. no, I don't know the exact amount and intensity of the UV, but I do know it has UV since It elicits the alexandrite affect quite well. 

anyway, the shrimp have colored up quite a bit in the last month. it makes sense that the shrimp would produce more pigment in response to the UV, but I don't want to miss the Forrest fort the trees so to speak, so I'm asking for the experience of others. has anyone else tried this?


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 4, 2008)

I don't think anyone has actually shone a UV light directly into the aquarium containing fish/shrimp before...

Some people run a UV light inline to kill parasites, free floating algae, etc and this has no harm on shrimp.

Also, from what I have gathered, the Alexandrite effect is due to visible light, not UV light.


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## auban (Jun 23, 2012)

well, my synthetic alexandrite fluoresces under UV in a color it never shows without, so my lights produce UV. i can get a few other things to fluoresce as well. as for the color change, i double checked and your right. i read something different a while ago, but it wasn't from anything authoritative.

i really meant fluorescence, but my brain wasnt working very well and i just happened to be holding a piece of synthetic alexandrite...

anyway, i was just curious. i guess what i need to do now is find someone who has been breeding shrimp, trade for or buy their less colorful ones, and send them back to them later to see how their culls rank in comparison to their choice breeders. it would be cool if this works well. 

i guess i should also set up a control tank...


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

I know a few people that have heard from Asian breeders who use UV bulbs, like the reptile style that give UVA/B over their shrimp tanks claiming it helps the shells or something. As with anything in the shrimp hobby, there is someone doing whatever you can think of, some claiming it works, some saying, no you have to do it this way because so and so does.

In the end, it's not going to hurt them in anyway and may or may not help with any benefits to the shrimp. I would say probably not though, as most UV bulbs don't penetrate the water beyond the first few inches. This I know from tests I've seen people do when I was keeping turtles and testing things like that for UVB bulbs and basically saying they have to be over the dry/basking area or else their useless to the turtle under water past the first couple of inches.


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## tunatime (Aug 1, 2012)

uv light is not good for living things....go lay out in the sun for a few hours and see if you get sun burnt. strong uv lights can mess up your eyes to. that said i would think the water would weaken the uv a lot


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

tunatime said:


> uv light is not good for living things....go lay out in the sun for a few hours and see if you get sun burnt. strong uv lights can mess up your eyes to. that said i would think the water would weaken the uv a lot


Long exposure to Uv light isn't good. It's needed by our bodies for Vitamin production, specifically Vitamin D and has many benefits to the human body. In 10 hours of sunlight you will burn. In 20 minutes, your body has already started making Vitamin D, so I disagree with your statement.

Your analogy is like saying bleach is bad because if you drink 5 gallons of it, you will probably die. Yet in small does in our water, chlorine is one of the single biggest thing that has saved lives by stopping water born bacteria from killing us off. One screw up of not managing enough chlorine in the water caused 7 people to die and 2500 to get sick from e.coli in Walkerton, ON about 10 years back.


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## auban (Jun 23, 2012)

i will admit, i do not believe that the UV is GOOD for my shrimp, and could possibly harm them in the long run. im too much of a curious bastard to not try it though. once i get a "what if" question in my head, im compulsive about answering it.

UV can be completely blocked within the first few centimeters of water or it can penetrate many meters into the water. it all depends on what you have in the water that can reflect or absorb it. if you have dark stained water rich in tannins, forget about getting UV into your tank. if you only have dissolved salts though, you can probably get UV to penetrate deep.

the bottom of my tank still makes fluorescent objects light up, so im pretty sure the UV is reaching the bottom of the tank. even if it didnt, a lot of my shrimp spend a lot of time up near the surface anyway.

it may make no difference, but who knows? we wont discover new ideas without trying new things. ill have to play it out and see.

i can tell you this though, i had a group of fifteen amano shrimp in another tank for a couple months that never showed any color, but after a couple weeks in the UV tank, they are showing color and patterns. i need to set up a control before i can say that it is the UV that caused it. dont want to get ahead of myself.


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

auban said:


> i will admit, i do not believe that the UV is GOOD for my shrimp, and could possibly harm them in the long run. im too much of a curious bastard to not try it though. once i get a "what if" question in my head, im compulsive about answering it.
> 
> UV can be completely blocked within the first few centimeters of water or it can penetrate many meters into the water. it all depends on what you have in the water that can reflect or absorb it. if you have dark stained water rich in tannins, forget about getting UV into your tank. if you only have dissolved salts though, you can probably get UV to penetrate deep.
> 
> ...


In nature they would get full natural UV, way more than anything a bulb puts outs and it doesn't effect them. What type of UV are you using? You haven't specified that, as that would help determine how much it is penetrating.

Also, they may look brighter or more colorful under the UV light but have you turned the UV off to see if the color changes you are seeing are the actual shrimp or just the color of the visible part of the bulb. 

If I have a tank of clear ghost shrimp and use blue and antic lights and they will look like purple or blue shrimp but doesn't change the fact they are clear.


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## auban (Jun 23, 2012)

i moved one of the mediocre shrimp out and this is what it looked like. it was mostly transparent a little over a month ago... wish i had the first pic for comparison...
this was taken in the UV tank.









they actually look brighter in my other tanks. all the blue kinda leaves them looking washed out in the UV tank.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

The problem with your experiment so far is that Cherries tend to color up as they age. Tough to say if UV had any impact.

Maybe you could test things out on other varieties of shrimp?


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

+1 to what Jake said. I've take cherries out thinking they were bad looking and put them in a community tank, only to have them hit that magic age and color up nicely, so just because 1 colored up, it's hard to say.


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

idk but he looks sunburnt


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## auban (Jun 23, 2012)

i wouldnt say i have an experiment going... yet. it doesnt qualify as an experiment, just a casual observation. when i split one tank down the middle with a divider that blocks light, and set up two different kinds of light on it... then we can start calling it an experiment.  

ill try and get a pic of some of the younger ones. the person who sent me these shrimp was showing off one of her more colorful ones and it doesnt look as bright or solid as this one. she was surprised at how mine look. it could just as easily be the food though.


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

What kind of UV light are you using?

Experiments are hard like this, because you can take two babies from the same parents and one will look awesome and one turn out like crap and that's just genetics and the reason we cull so much, so it would hard to attribute it to the light.


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## auban (Jun 23, 2012)

i cant remember the brand of the light strip, but the bulbs are 3 seaworld t5ho 12000k and 3 seaworld t5ho actinics. i dont have a clue how those lights rank against other brands, i just know they produce some nice UV. i could go with better known lights, but i like testing new things and im getting a par meter soon enough, so ill be able to find out how they are with par. in the meantime, my wife just tracked the company down. they are based in

this whole tank is testing new stuff, new ideas, new way of doing things.

but don't worry, if i set up a tank to test this idea, it will be set up as a true experiment. identical growing conditions save for the type of light. they will even share the same water and will just be separated.


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

Is it just a strip light of normal 5mm LED's ?


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## auban (Jun 23, 2012)

no, it is 3 48" 12000k T5HO and 3 48" actinic T5HO. total of 6 T5HO bulbs, 54 watts each, for a total of 324 watts.

i guess strip is the wrong word to use...


just found the company, based in china. i have a linguist friend who speaks chinese, so i should be able to get a letter sent out to them, or at least read whatever they have published about their products.

still not sure of a brand name though.


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

and all the bulbs are UV or do you just think they are UV because they make stuff glow under them? That's the actinic lights and while are UV, they are UVA which is really just visible light for the most part. True UVB,is what sunburns us and is invisible. 

I think maybe you're confusing the blue/glowing color your lights put off as UV.


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## auban (Jun 23, 2012)

no, just three. the three actinics produce a lot of UV. they make things fluoresce quite well. the 12000k bulbs barely elicit a response, but the actinics are definitely producing a lot of UV. most fluorescent bulbs do produce UV, just in varying amounts. 

think about black lights. those are usually just normal bulbs with a coating in them to block out visible light. plant lights are often set up to NOT produce UV. reef lights though... plenty of fluorescent things to light up.

if you can see things fluoresce even with plenty of normal visible light, then there is a lot more UV than you would get from a black light. i don't think these lights would be useful for growing plants, but its useful for a specific test i wanted to do. 

more on that test later. if i have what i think i have, its gonna be a real shocker. im not ready to reveal it yet.


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## auban (Jun 23, 2012)

here is another one of the shrimp. i started with 20 total about a month ago, with two adults and the the rest juveniles. the adults weren't even close to what they are now. is this a normal color for a typical cherry shrimp? there are a couple in there(probably the starter adults) that are a little brighter than this, but its a pain to hunt them down in a 55g. i have been feeding them mostly algae wafers and the occasional green bean.

i first need to establish that these are in fact well colored for a cherry shrimp before i start looking for a why. don't want to waste time looking for a cause to an affect that doesn't exist...


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Yep, looks like a standard high-grade Cherry.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Sakura or pfr depending on who you talk to.


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

Looks like a cherry shrimp that colored up a bit and I really doubt it has anything to do with the actinics lights. More than likely what you bought as cherry shrimp, were someones PFR culls, and they have decent genetics. Lets face it, not many people breed cherries anymore, they breed PFR and sell off the culls cheaper as cherries.

I think you're still confusing the UV that a actinic bulb puts out as something that it's not. Yes it make stuff glow a bit, as does a black light. Neither of these will give you a suntan, ever. They are not the same type of UV. There is 3 types of UV that all have different effects. UV-A, is visible like black lights and makes stuff glow pretty. That's about it. UV-B gives us suntans and sunburns and stimulates Vitamin D production in humans, and calcium uptake in reptiles and other creatures and is invisible. UV-C kills bacteria and is used in UV sterilizers for aquariums and medical equipment and is invisible.

Yes actinics are used in reef tanks by some, and some despise them because they make all corals glow pretty, even crappy ones where as a nice, good quality coral will be colorful under regular light.

Cherry/fire red/pfr/whatever shrimp, get darker red as they age, regardless of the light. If you are trying to attribute the light to making your shrimp redder, I think you're on the wrong path. They get red as they get older, happens to all of them. I have several times culled too early, only to pull the culled shrimp back into the main tank because 3 months after I culled them, they turned a nice dark or solid red and they weren't that color when I put them in. It was just time they needed, not anything else.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

I think a nice control would be to buy cherries and put half in a tank without the light, and half in a tank with the light- then compare them.


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## rrastro (Jun 14, 2012)

auban said:


> i guess what i need to do now is find someone who has been breeding shrimp, trade for or buy their less colorful ones, and send them back to them later to see how their culls rank in comparison to their choice breeders.


back to this point, even if the hypothetical UV light caused an increase in red color it is very unlikely that a genetic trait for an increase in color would be immediately transferred to the next generation or even in the next ten generations. what could be transferred is a trait for receptivity to UV light that then induces a change in color but whether that trait would then be dominant is another unknown.


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## auban (Jun 23, 2012)

hmmm... I have the question stuck in my head. ill have to make a setup using tanning bulbs(UV-A). then I can find out for sure. gotta find some lousy cherry shrimps.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Make a post in the WTB section explaining that you want cherry shrimp culls and why and you should have lots of responses.


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## auban (Jun 23, 2012)

I could also offer a trade. I would specifically go for shrimp with the least amount of color, since they would be the ones that show the most response to UV, if they show one at all. if I have shrimp that are naturally super red, its going to be hard to tell if my the tanning bulbs would make a difference. then again, a controlled experiment may still show a difference...


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## auban (Jun 23, 2012)

OK, so now that I have decided that I definitely want to do this experiment, I need to put a light together that produces almost entirely UV. I have decided that I want to use Tanning bulbs because I can get some that produce almost nothing but UV-A, which is enough to cause humans to tan but wont normally burn them. I imagine if shrimps can "tan" then these bulbs should work. the problem is, I have no idea how to put a lamp together to run the bulbs. can anyone refer me to a guide or instructional that explains how to build lights? as far as I know, there aren't any lights that are set up to run tanning bulbs that would be suitable for an aquarium.


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## auban (Jun 23, 2012)

my next step will be UV-B and then UV-C. 

the UV-C tests will have nothing to do with breeding. they will be a part of an ongoing study on mutogenisis. I can already get the lamps for that though, so I'm not worried about building them. its the UV-A and UV-B lamps that I cant get...


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Did you look at the DIY section?


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## auban (Jun 23, 2012)

my next step will be UV-B and then UV-C. 

the UV-C tests will have nothing to do with breeding. they will be a part of an ongoing study on mutogenisis. I can already get the lamps for that though, so I'm not worried about building them. its the UV-A and UV-B lamps that I cant get...


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

UV-A http://www.topbulb.com/find/prod_list.asp_Q_intSubCategory_E_771

UV-B http://www.topbulb.com/find/prod_list.asp_Q_intSubCategory_E_798


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## auban (Jun 23, 2012)

for some reason it never occurred to me to look in DIY. I searched the lighting section. 

my studies studies in Arabic have left me a bit scatter brained lately.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

الأفضل أن تكون الخرقاء. كنت لا تريد المفقودين العقول!


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## auban (Jun 23, 2012)

as they say, a mind is a terrible waste of space.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Lol


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## auban (Jun 23, 2012)

what would be another good shrimp for this purpose? i think amanos might show a decent response to uv, so ill include them in the experiment as well. if one side colors up more than the other, im pretty sure that we can exclude the possibility that it is due to genetics.

that is, unless people are breeding different strains of amano shrimp...

from what i understand, most amanos are still pretty much all wild types. what i have noticed, however, is my amanos turned two different colors while in the same tank. when i had them under normal lights they were pretty much clear, but in the over driven tank with the reef lights on it, they have all turned dark green except for two, which turned a burnt orange. 

it has me thinking... if UV does play a role in how the shrimp expresses its genes for color, it could be useful as a tool to help with selective breeding.

in other words, if you put two shrimp side by side, both young, and get them to produce pigment in their shells by exposing them to UV, then you may be able to take a wild type shrimp and selectively breed for the traits you want.

i have collected palaemonetes all over the east coast from key west to virginia and each wild population shows slightly different color patterns. the annoying thing is that they usually lost much of their color after several molts in my tank. the ones that didnt lose their color were the redish tinted shrimp from the sandhill game lands in north carolina. 
the water there blocks UV light, and the water is dark, so im sure UV had the least to do with their colors. the most colorful ones came from a remote spring that fed into the tannin stained suwannee river. they had bright blue and red bands on their legs, and green tinted bands on their bodies. just 20 meters downstream in the suwannee however, and they were all pretty much colorless. that was my first indication that it might be light that plays a part in their color, since they were the exact same species of shrimp, but there was a wide variation in color depending on how clear the water was.

if i were to breed shrimp that produced the most response to UV, i have no idea what the outcome would be. all i know is that i would be selecting for something...

ill have to try it and see i guess. arabic takes up on average 10 hours of my day, and it will for the next 56 weeks. i need something to think about on my off time so that i dont go crazy. this is my favorite part of the hobby. i dont give a hoot about having the most beautiful shrimp. i dont regard one shrimp over the next. what i want is to do something nobody has done, answer questions that nobody has satisfactorily answered. just look at what i have been doing with algae. i would gladly trade the highest grade shrimp for the lowest grade shrimp if it meant i could learn how to do something new.


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## desertVet (Jan 11, 2016)

I am currently testing this with reptile UVB & UVA lights. As stated above, in the wild they would have full access to this as they require. Cold blooded animals soak in the sun as needed, some have developed so they do not need any, but most do. Of course we know our shrimp get what they need from the room lights and the tank lights, my reason for testing is for the planted tank. However, I will tell you they love it. They will all move to the spot where the UVB light focus hits the bottom of the tank, so it is not being completely filtered out by the water. With a UVA light, they do not notice it whatsoever. My tests have been on a 10 gallon planted tank and with both Cherries and Crystal Red/Blacks. For some reason, it seems the Bee shrimp do not enjoy it as much as the Neos do. The bees do soak it up, but not as much as the Cherries...they are crazy for it.
In my opinion, this is not required for either plants or shrimp but it is a treat for them. It certainly will cause no harm and fun to experiment with. However if you have any issues with alge I would not suggest playing with this as it will really feed your problem.


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## rakali (Sep 19, 2019)

On an unrealted to UV note my cherries really colored up when I fed them nori. Have you ever tried it?


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## Surf (Jun 13, 2017)

Just some ones about UV and Actinic lights. 

UV is calssified A B C depending on the wavelength of light. 

UVA 315nm to 400nm

UVB 280nm to 315nm

UVC 100nm to 280nm

Visible light 400nm (Violet) yo 700nm (deep red)

UVC will kill everything (plants animals and bacteria) in your tank. Don't do any experiments with it. It can blind you and your shrimp before it kills. UVB is primarily reposonsibel for sunburns.UVB lights should be handled with caution. They can blind and cause very sever sun burns. UVA is the weakest UV light used in tanning beads and is needed by reptiles and mammals to make vitamin D. UVC is blocked by the ozone layer in the atmosphere. Only UVA and less UVB make it to the ground. 

Only UV and violet light (380nm to 450nm) will cause objects to Fluoresce (emit light). The alexandrite affect only involves selective reflection of visible light. Two very different affects

Actinic lights are designed to strongly emit violet light with some Blue light and a small amount of UVA 8 light (about 5% UVA) They are popular in reef aquarium because the corals Fluoresce under this light without causing any harm to to the coral or animals in the aquarium. Most common white lights on the market are weak in violate light and don't produce any UV.


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## Blue Ridge Reef (Feb 10, 2008)

rakali said:


> On an unrealted to UV note my cherries really colored up when I fed them nori. Have you ever tried it?


Just a head's up but this thread was 7 years old.


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## H82LOS3 (Mar 5, 2009)

Blue Ridge Reef said:


> Just a head's up but this thread was 7 years old.


Lol true and I didnt realized that after I saw the date but its a very interesting experiment that Im curious on the results. Im hoping OP will get notifications from us bumping the thread


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## united natures (May 15, 2019)

Oh wow, I'm glad someone revived this old thread because this is EXACTLY the question I've wondering myself. Seems like the original experiment has dissipated, I am wondering if anyone else has done similar experiments?

All I can say is, I have 2 neos in a direct sunlight tank, and those 2 are 30% LARGER than adult neos in my main and cull tank. The male is even larger than the females in my main tank. Seems like sunlight makes them grow bigger based on my tiny sample size lol


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## Streetwise (May 24, 2019)

More sunlight, more algae, more shrimp food.


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## FishRFriendz (Dec 21, 2016)

I've put cull RCS in an outdoor pond that gets sunlight for years and they end up looking nicer in the long run. I wouldn't move them indoors because those kinds of improvements can't pass on genetically, so offspring would end up looking like culls again if they're brought back in.


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## united natures (May 15, 2019)

Streetwise said:


> More sunlight, more algae, more shrimp food.


That could be true. However, I don't feed the tank with sunlight, whereas I feed my main tank almost everyday


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