# Dirted tank help



## abomans (Nov 24, 2016)

I have a 120 gal tank that will become a planted, dirted tank with a 55 gal refugium. I want to use MGOPS and cap with sand in the main tank and MGOPS capped with gravel from existing tank (to help with cycle) in the refugium. All biological filter media from canister and HOB will also go in refugium. 


Question about the MGOPS. Does it come with time release nitrogen in it. At Home Depot where I live they have Vigoro Organic Garden Soil. Has anyone have experience with this product. It has .08-.05-.08 on the bag. Is that OK for a tank? I want to use pool filter sand as a cap. Does it come in black, how fine is it. I can't get BDBS in Canada.


For my slopes when I aquascape, I plan on using eggcrates and filling with crushed lava rock (locally sourced, extinct volcano really close to my place) then 2-3" of soil, then 1-2" of sand. Slopes aren't planned to be too drastic but not sure if they will hold or settle to a more level position. Will a moderately planted tank help keep slopes in tact.


I will be starting a journal when I get close to building everything for my tanks. Stand, Lava Rock features, DIY CO2 system, refugium and aquascape.


I would like to take this opportunity to thank everyone for their comments and suggestions as this is my first planted tank.


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## thanatopsian (Dec 11, 2016)

First, I have no experience with MGOPS. That said, I have used Black Gold compost because it is cheap and available to good effect. 

Sand will always try to settle in my experience, but I think you are going about it the right way. I've done something similar and it worked fine. My suggestion is to do your egg crate lava rock thing, then add sand to fill in the gaps until the lava rock/egg crate is covered. Slope that as desired. Then add dirt and follow the contour of your slope. If you are worried, use Small pieces of lava rock or clear plastic at this point to make "damns" along the slope to prevent shifting. Top the dirt and damns with more sand and neaten up your slope. That will give you the best chance at a slope that won't sink or shift. If you use a carpet plant that has lots of roots like DHG or HC, you have even less to worry about when it comes to sliding or erosion.

Also, because MGOPS and Compost are so rich in organics, don't be afraid to cut your dirt with sand. I did this in a tank rescape (didn't feel like trying to separate the sand from my dirt) I took the old sand/dirt, mixed it with a little fresh compost to spruce it up, and I had a lot less trouble with algae in the second tank than the first.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


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## ermpickle (Dec 29, 2016)

So I'm working on a Walstad tank so I don't actually have experience with any of this yet, just lots of research. 
I am also planning on using Miracle Grow Organic Soil. From what I understand this is a great soil to use but due to the amount of organics in the soil it is recommended to cut it like Thanatopsian said. I was reading one of the best things to cut it with would be something that has a high 'cation exchange capacity' (not sure exactly what that means lol) but basically something that is going to help keep the ammonia and other nutrients in the soil. I plan on using pure clay cat litter (fragrance etc free). This article also recommends Safe-T-Sorb which is also really cheap. You would want to mix it 50/50 with the soil to help reduce the chance of the soil be coming anaerobic. 
And you still want to cap it with sand or gravel. (I use Black Diamond Blasting Sand already so that's what I'll be using to cap, its $7 for 50lbs)

This is one of the most useful article I have found. There is a whole section on using MGOC in a planted tank
Suitable soils for the Walstad method - El Natural - Aquatic Plant Central


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## Kubla (Jan 5, 2014)

abomans said:


> I have a 120 gal tank that will become a planted, dirted tank with a 55 gal refugium. I want to use MGOPS and cap with sand in the main tank and MGOPS capped with gravel from existing tank (to help with cycle) in the refugium. All biological filter media from canister and HOB will also go in refugium.
> 
> 
> Question about the MGOPS. Does it come with time release nitrogen in it. At Home Depot where I live they have Vigoro Organic Garden Soil. Has anyone have experience with this product. It has .08-.05-.08 on the bag. Is that OK for a tank? I want to use pool filter sand as a cap. Does it come in black, how fine is it. I can't get BDBS in Canada.
> ...



Pool filter sand only comes in 'natural' color. It's made to go inside a pool filter, it doesn't get seen.

MGOS doesn't technically have time release nitrogen. It has nitrogen, and all the nutrients get released over time.

You might not find BDBS but you should be able to get the same thing. Start checking with sand blasting places. There's lot's of them in BC (I know it's a big place) You're looking for coal slag. It's a very common blasting material. Sometimes rental yards and tool supply places that deal with sand blasters have it.


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## bbroush (Sep 13, 2012)

ermpickle said:


> So I'm working on a Walstad tank so I don't actually have experience with any of this yet, just lots of research.
> 
> I am also planning on using Miracle Grow Organic Soil. From what I understand this is a great soil to use but due to the amount of organics in the soil it is recommended to cut it like Thanatopsian said. I was reading one of the best things to cut it with would be something that has a high 'cation exchange capacity' (not sure exactly what that means lol) but basically something that is going to help keep the ammonia and other nutrients in the soil. I plan on using pure clay cat litter (fragrance etc free). This article also recommends Safe-T-Sorb which is also really cheap. You would want to mix it 50/50 with the soil to help reduce the chance of the soil be coming anaerobic.
> 
> ...




I was about to post the same thread from APC. There are still a few of us that use both APC & TPT. Anyway i just did a Walstad tank. I went with MGOPS mixed with some top soil and a bit of old aquarium fluorite. You can check it out in my signature.

Safe-T-Sorb or any cheap unscented kitty litter works great as a high CEC material for cheap. I didn't use it because I didn't have it on hand. Also you can cap with it as well. There are a decent number of people with dirted tanks who have done so. If you want black though a medium or fine grit coal slag is a great way to go. I went fine because menards is closer than tractor supply and I thought I had read people saying you can cut your hands on medium grit? (unsure)

Anyway, I can't wait to see how it turns out! One day I'll have a 120


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## lksdrinker (Feb 12, 2014)

This is what the back of the old bag of MGOPM used to state and was the go to substrate for dirted tanks. The NPK rating was .1, .05, .05. The key thing was that it was composed of "pasteurized poultry litter" (as opposed to cow manure that might be found in others):


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## abomans (Nov 24, 2016)

Here is the Organic dirt I am planning on going with.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=708362&stc=1&d=1483867304


On the bag it says .08 - .05 - .08


Ingredients - A rich source of organic matter. Includes : peat moss, compost, humus, lime, natural fertilizer.


Does it look to be OK.


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## Bananableps (Nov 6, 2013)

I have had success keeping slopes in my dirted 30 gallon by cutting soil with dead leaves. This also provides a good term source of carbon for the tank. 





Kubla said:


> You're looking for coal slag.


I've never heard of coal slag being used in an aquarium. Is this common? It is my understanding that coal slag contains some pretty serious heavy metal levels.


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## bbroush (Sep 13, 2012)

Bananableps said:


> I have had success keeping slopes in my dirted 30 gallon by cutting soil with dead leaves. This also provides a good term source of carbon for the tank.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Coal slag = black diamond blasting sand. Seems like many of us use it


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## Bananableps (Nov 6, 2013)

bbroush said:


> Coal slag = black diamond blasting sand. Seems like many of us use it



Oh I had no idea. I knew what coal slag was separately, but I don't use black substrate so I never tied to together with the black diamond blasting sand I kept reading about from everyone else.

That stuff is industrial waste. It doesn't leach anything?


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## bbroush (Sep 13, 2012)

Bananableps said:


> Oh I had no idea. I knew what coal slag was separately, but I don't use black substrate so I never tied to together with the black diamond blasting sand I kept reading about from everyone else.
> 
> 
> 
> That stuff is industrial waste. It doesn't leach anything?




Nope. Not that I've read about anywhere


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## Method (Feb 13, 2011)

I oversee 20 student tanks at my school, most of which have coal slag substrates. No problems breeding livebearers and shrimp. My main tank at home currently has fluorite black sand, but it used to have coal slag. I successfully raised several broods of pygmy corys on it. They never complained of heavy metals. I still have a most of those babies now four years later. 

I love the stuff because it's cheap and attractive, and really holds plants down because of the weight. Root tabs or a soil sub are a must though.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Bananableps said:


> That stuff is industrial waste. It doesn't leach anything?


Re-purposed aggregate actually and for the most part inert.


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## Bananableps (Nov 6, 2013)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Re-purposed aggregate actually and for the most part inert.


That's quite a euphemism. If you guys say it doesn't leach, I believe you, but I don't think my concern was altogether misplaced: most coal combustion byproducts are toxic enough to warrant Superfund registration.


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## bbroush (Sep 13, 2012)

Bananableps said:


> That's quite a euphemism. If you guys say it doesn't leach, I believe you, but I don't think my concern was altogether misplaced: most coal combustion byproducts are toxic enough to warrant Superfund registration.




I mean if it used to clean things it's probably okay, right?


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## Bananableps (Nov 6, 2013)

bbroush said:


> I mean if it used to clean things it's probably okay, right?


It all depends on the state of the materials. Coal ash is considered relatively safe to use for concrete (though there is some concern), but if it's dumped over an aquifer you can expect a decent uptick in cancers for people on well water in the area. I used to work as a paralegal in toxic tort litigation: I consider myself a cynic, and even I was shocked by how poorly regulated chemical dumping is in the USA. 

Black Diamond Blasting Grit might contain a high heavy metal content, but it might also be locked up in a state which prevents leaching. That's getting into some sciencey stuff that's just way over my head, but if people have been using it without issue then I suppose it must be fine. If there was a major heavy metal problem with this substrate, aquarists would probably have observed reproductive issues in their fish by now.


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## Kampo (Nov 3, 2015)

I've had great luck with cheapo dollar a bag menards top soil caped with black diamond blasting saind. my new "winner" I think is to lay egg crate down, doubled up in mid ground and tripple in back. sprinkle in so osmocote then top with the top soil so it fills the egg crate. then add a inch or 2 of sand on top of that. seems to be working great in my 75 so far. adds some stability to the substrate I think.


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## abomans (Nov 24, 2016)

what is osmocote?


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