# DSLR Camera Suggestions for Beginner



## KC1994 (May 19, 2016)

EOS 60D


Great camera and cheap now that the 70D came out.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

KC1994 said:


> EOS 60D
> 
> 
> Great camera and cheap now that the 70D came out.
> ...


I was going to say the 70D, but if price is an issue then yes the 60D is a great camera. That's what I use. To get close-up shots you'll probably need a macro lens not the one that comes with the camera in most kits.


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## Geoff-PA (Jun 5, 2016)

I'm looking at a couple bundles for the 70D. One of them comes with a .45x Super Wide Angle Lens with Macro. Another bundle comes with .43x Wide Angle Lens. Doesn't say anything about macro. 

Would the .45x Super Wide Angle Lens with Macro be the one I want?


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

Geoff-PA said:


> I'm looking at a couple bundles for the 70D. One of them comes with a .45x Super Wide Angle Lens with Macro. Another bundle comes with .43x Wide Angle Lens. Doesn't say anything about macro.
> 
> Would the .45x Super Wide Angle Lens with Macro be the one I want?


That sounds like an adapter that goes on the lens that the camera comes with and allows you to widen the view or do close-ups. It might not be bad but generally speaking those type of things decrease Image Quality. The true macro lenses for your camera I believe are the 60mm and the 100mm. Those won't come in a kit you need to buy those separately. The true macros are also fast lens (low F number) that allow you to take pictures with less light and fast shutter speed.


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## Geoff-PA (Jun 5, 2016)

houseofcards said:


> That sounds like an adapter that goes on the lens that the camera comes with and allows you to widen the view or do close-ups. It might not be bad but generally speaking those type of things decrease Image Quality. The true macro lenses for your camera I believe are the 60mm and the 100mm. Those won't come in a kit you need to buy those separately. The true macros are also fast lens (low F number) that allow you to take pictures with less light and fast shutter speed.


Oh ok, thanks. Yeah this is definitely an adapter that screws on to the lens.

This bundle appears to be only $200-$300 more than a body only (plus one lens, maybe). The bundle comes with like 19 or so things, including tripods, bags, memory cards and readers, and a bunch of other stuff.

Would it make sense to buy the bundle, and then buy the true macro lens separately? Rather than buy the body only for a couple hundred less, and then the macro separately? (Hope this question makes sense)

Edit to add: Oh my, those macro lens ain't cheap!


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

You'll definitely want an overall lens for most of your photography. Those cameras usually come with I think the 18-135 or an 18-55. Those are good for most general photography and then you buy more glass (lens) for what your interested in like macro, larger telephoto, etc. Yes glass can run more then the camera depending on what you want to do. The 60mm Macro is a very good lens and not crazy expensive. I've had that lens and used it for many fish pics. Many of the macros also are great for portrait photography where you blur out the background and focus on a person or face. Those other items that you mentioned like tripods, bags, memory cards, etc are usually low-end stuff that they throw into a bundle. Not to say they'll bad, but you can buy those separately as you feel you need them and get better quality. But if your on a budget it might not be a bad deal.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Geoff-PA said:


> I'm looking at a couple bundles for the 70D. One of them comes with a .45x Super Wide Angle Lens with Macro. Another bundle comes with .43x Wide Angle Lens. Doesn't say anything about macro.
> 
> Would the .45x Super Wide Angle Lens with Macro be the one I want?


I always check dprview for advice.. 
2016 Roundup: Interchangeable Lens Cameras $500-800: Digital Photography Review
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/2016-round-up-interchangeable-lens-cameras-under-500

Personally, I've always used Pentax products but have a definite "want" for Nikon. Just have too much in glass for Pentax at the present..

DSLR's r like cars and computers.. high depreciation and short technology turn around..

Glass is forever (well sometimes. unless they screw you and change mounts..) 

https://www.keh.com/shop/cameras/digital-cameras/dslr/nikon.html


Point is pick up a used body but good glass..
http://www.nikonusa.com/en/learn-and-explore/article/gnhy8b3m/macro-lenses.html

http://www.adorama.com/NK5018SE.html?gclid=CKT7l_j3ss0CFYQ2gQodOdINEg
http://www.adorama.com/NK4028U.html?gclid=CJHR0ZH4ss0CFUI6gQodwEkMdA
http://www.adorama.com/INKD5500BKR.html?gclid=CMOOybr2ss0CFZQjgQodAUwO5w


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## Geoff-PA (Jun 5, 2016)

This bundle comes with a 18-55mm lens, a 55-250mm lens, a telephoto lens (58mm 2x), the super wide angle with macro (adapter), 58mm UV protector filter, auto power slave flash, 8GB & 16GB SDHC cards, tripod & table top tripod, 3-piece filter kit (UV,CPL, FLD), camera case and a backpack, memory card wallet, uSB card reader, and LCD screen protector.

Grand total of $1249. Now, I've never used cameras like these, so is the Canon 70D easy-ish to learn and figure out? Maybe this bundle would be good to get started and comfortable with, and then like you said, expand to more glass for what I'm interested in?

Yeah, I saw some 60mm macros that were a lot less expensive than the 100mm.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

That's probably not a bad way to go. You can learn how to use the stuff, see what kind of pics you can get with the adapters, etc. All the other stuff you'll certainly use, like the tripod, SD Cards, case, etc. Lens hold their value pretty well, so you can always for example sell the 55-250 if your not using it a lot and put the money toward something else.


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## Smooch (May 14, 2016)

I'm a Canon snob, so I'm bias. LOL

If you're a complete newbie to photography and DSLRs, a entry level Canon would work for you. They're not complicated and easy to figure out. If you want a camera to grow into, then go with the 70D.

If I had to suggest a lens, I'd say go with the 50mm. I have a 1.4 and it is my go-to lens. If forces a person to get close and think about what they are shooting before pushing the shutter button.

Whatever you decide to buy, go check out the camera first at a store somewhere. Not all cameras feel the same way in the hands, just as everybody has different sized hands. If you end up buying a camera that feels awkward, the button placement doesn't agree with your hands, ect... you won't enjoy using it and won't be willing to learn how to use it to it's fullest potential. 


This is one of these things that is rarely mentioned in reviews.


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## Geoff-PA (Jun 5, 2016)

Thanks everyone. I'll head up to Best Buy tomorrow and get my hands on some cameras to get a feel for them.

I'm sure I'll have even more questions!


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## Smooch (May 14, 2016)

One more thing about camera choice, then I'm going to bed for real. 

Not all lenses are the same, nor are all of them forward and backward compatible. Not to pick on any specific name brand, but Nikon is notorious of selling new camera bodies and lenses made for that body only. 

If you buy a Canon body and regular Canon lenses, the lenses will work on any camera body you buy going forward. I don't think the L-Series is backward compatible because the new Canon's are much faster than the older ones, but they should be forward compatible. 

Not trying to push you into a brand, it's just something else that you should seriously think about, especially if you buy a body that you plan to keep for a few years. Also beware of used digital cameras as they do have a lifespan of about 300K photos. A friend of mine that is a pro photographer has to buy a new camera once a year because he burns through them. I wanted his 5D when he bought his 7D, but he killed it and Canon told him it wasn't worth the cash to fix it.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Smooch said:


> One more thing about camera choice, then I'm going to bed for real.
> 
> Not all lenses are the same, nor are all of them forward and backward compatible. Not to pick on any specific name brand, but Nikon is notorious of selling new camera bodies and lenses made for that body only.


Really??


> In 2003, Canon introduced the EF-S lens mount, a derivative of the EF mount that is strictly for digital EOS cameras with APS-C sensors released after 2003. EF lenses can be mounted on EF-S bodies but EF-S lenses cannot be mounted on EF bodies. In October 2012, Canon introduced the EF-M lens mount, a derivative designed exclusively for mirrorless interchangeable-lens cameras (MILCs) with APS-C sensors. EF and EF-S lenses can be mounted on EF-M bodies via the optional Mount Adapter EF-EOS M.[1]


not to even mention the switch from the FD to the EF mount which made all FD lenses unusable except by adding image degrading secondary optics
Point is they all can screw w/ you... 

Actually maybe this is where I should plug Pentax...

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/2016-roundup-interchangeable-lens-cameras-500-800/12



> Another feature that is quite useful for still capture is the K-S2’s sensor-shift image stabilization. The K-S2 is mechanically compatible with countless Pentax K-mount lenses going back decades, which is a huge advantage compared to the other cameras in this class. And of course, all of these lenses become stabilized when mounted on the K-S2.





> The K-S2 is built around the decades-old K-mount, which means that the camera can accept a huge number of automatic and manual-focus lenses dating back to long before the advent of digital imaging“


But it does have its share of warts.. someday..


> For these reasons, the K-S2 is not the best camera to buy if you intend on photographing action or moving subjects in general.


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## Smooch (May 14, 2016)

LOL! Good luck trying to use a mirror less lens on a regular DSLR. That would be from any company, not just Canon. The technology may change at a later date. but for now, mirror less is the fad for all the tech junkies out there that have to have at least one of everything.

EDIT: Apparently I'm supposed to show Pentax some love ( my first real film camera was a Pentax. I still have it...) I thought it was appropriate to go see what Kai had to say about Pentax's latest. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oy3d6sVV9_g

Yes, having the ability to change fonts on the wonky screen is something all of use Canon and Nikon users have been deprived of. What would I do without more Comic Sans in my life? I don't know if Comic Sans is actually on there or not, but does it matter?


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

Some of the smaller dslrs / mirrorless cameras don't have all the features of the full size ones. In this case for fish/photography some of these don't have high-end AF and it could be a more challenging to catch moving subjects like fish, sports, etc. Some also don't allow you to use the camera's flash as a trigger to Off Camera Flash. Off Camera Flash is really important in many cases to capture high quality fish photos.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Smooch said:


> LOL! Good luck trying to use a mirror less lens on a regular DSLR. That would be from any company, not just Canon. The technology may change at a later date. but for now, mirror less is the fad for all the tech junkies out there that have to have at least one of everything.
> 
> EDIT: Apparently I'm supposed to show Pentax some love ( my first real film camera was a Pentax. I still have it...) I thought it was appropriate to go see what Kai had to say about Pentax's latest. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oy3d6sVV9_g
> 
> Yes, having the ability to change fonts on the wonky screen is something all of use Canon and Nikon users have been deprived of. What would I do without more Comic Sans in my life? I don't know if Comic Sans is actually on there or not, but does it matter?


Few need a FF DSLR camera.. but it was a great running joke at Pentaxforums.. 
I always wondered what would come first.. cold fusion or a FF Pentax...
Pentax suffered major damage being bought by Hoya (and split off for cash later). Ricoh's acquiring of it may have finally helped a bit. Lost track after the Hoya gutting..


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## jrygel (Jan 29, 2014)

Geoff-PA said:


> This bundle comes with a 18-55mm lens, a 55-250mm lens, a telephoto lens (58mm 2x), the super wide angle with macro (adapter), 58mm UV protector filter, auto power slave flash, 8GB & 16GB SDHC cards, tripod & table top tripod, 3-piece filter kit (UV,CPL, FLD), camera case and a backpack, memory card wallet, uSB card reader, and LCD screen protector.
> 
> Grand total of $1249. Now, I've never used cameras like these, so is the Canon 70D easy-ish to learn and figure out? Maybe this bundle would be good to get started and comfortable with, and then like you said, expand to more glass for what I'm interested in?
> 
> Yeah, I saw some 60mm macros that were a lot less expensive than the 100mm.




Be careful with buying online. A lot of the online photo shops are very shady operations that will try to rip you off in various ways - one of the common ways is by selling you a imported ('grey market') camera, i.e. one intended to be sold in a market other than the US so it won't have a US warranty - then they'll call you up after you order it and offer to sell you their aftermarket warranty service - there are other methods . . . My general rule is that if the price is less than B&H or Adorama, it's probably too good to be true.


Also, regarding super bundles: they usually aren't a great deal because they usually are built around a few good pieces (70d, 18-55 IS and 55-250 are all good quality and good value pieces of kit), but many of the additional pieces are pretty junky quality that you will find you either don't use, or, in the case of the pieces you do use, are of such poor quality that you will want to upgrade soon.


I'd advise you to decide on a body (60d or 70d are both good choices), then decide what lenses you want and see what basic bundles are available with the lens and body you want, and just get the accessories you need to start out (bag, memory card, extra battery) - then start using your equipment and decide what other accessories you want - you probably don't need most of what's in that bundle. I have around $5k worth of gear, but it mostly comes down to body, lenses, tripod, and one filter (B+W CPL)- I don't use adaptor lenses or anything like that. 


If you're going Canon (I'm also biased, shooting with an EOS-6D), I'd go with the 60mm EF-S macro for your fish. For other stuff, I had really good results with the Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 (non VC), but the Canon 18-55 IS is pretty good as well (and cheaper); if you want a longer lens, the Canon 55-250 IS and 70-300 IS are both good (the 75-300 is garbage), and the Tamron 70-300 VC is also good. If you want to start getting artistic, the Canon 50 f/1.8 is a great start.


-Justin

Bump:


Smooch said:


> If you buy a Canon body and regular Canon lenses, the lenses will work on any camera body you buy going forward. I don't think the L-Series is backward compatible because the new Canon's are much faster than the older ones, but they should be forward compatible.



All EF series lenses (including Ls) are compatible will all EF series bodies, which include every DSLR Canon has ever made. The only incompatibility is with EF-S series lenses, which cannot be used on full frame bodies. I used to have a 20 year old 50mm f/1.8 MK I, it worked great on my (then) brand new EOS-6D - a little slower than newer lenses with USM, but it worked just fine.


-Justin


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## Geoff-PA (Jun 5, 2016)

Thanks @jrygel. You've definitely given me some things to think about. 

What are your thoughts on the Rebel T6i?


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## jrygel (Jan 29, 2014)

Geoff-PA said:


> What are your thoughts on the Rebel T6i?


As far as I can tell the T6i should be comparable image quality to the 70D, and both should be a bit better than the 60D. That being said, all will be very good and it will probably be pretty difficult to tell any difference between them without getting very picky, although the 60D uses the 18.1 MP sensor that has been around for several years now, and the 24.2 MP sensor in the T6i is the newest APS-C sensor that they make, so it should be better. You won't notice significant differences in image quality without going to a full frame body. 


What sets the XXD bodies apart from the Rebels is build quality and ergonomics. The XXD series has more physical controls, with the control wheel on the back, LCD on top, and more dedicated buttons. For slow, carefully staged shooting, this doesn't matter so much, but when shooting dynamic events, it is a huge help to know where all the controls are and be able to change almost any important parameter within two button presses. The XXDs are also a little tougher and larger than the Rebels, you'll probably notice this when you look at them in the store.


-Justin


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## Geoff-PA (Jun 5, 2016)

jrygel said:


> The XXDs are also a little tougher and larger than the Rebels, you'll probably notice this when you look at them in the store.


This is exactly why I asked. I went to Best Buy on my lunch break today to get a feel for some of the cameras. The T6i actually felt better in-hand. The 70D seemed a bit bulky and clumsy. I liked the way the Nikon D5500 felt in-hand, too.

So many choices and decisions. I have an easier time buying a car!


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

jrygel pretty much nailed it. Actually sensor wise the t6i is the same sensor as the 80D which is now replacing the 70D which replaced the 60D. The 70D / 80D is more like a prosumer camera since it's tougher, more water tight and easier to switch settings in the field while the rebel line is more for the consumer. 

Either way as far as your photography you probably wouldn't notice the difference between the two. Not photographic but the 70D has a huge battery that last forever while the Rebels have much smaller batteries, but you could also buy an extra one if it becomes an issue. After that it comes down to glass (lenses). The also would vouch for the 60mm Macro. It's a fanastic lens for the price and doubles as a pretty good portrait lens as well.


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## Geoff-PA (Jun 5, 2016)

Thanks @houseofcards.

Do you think one is easier to learn than the other (70D vs. Rebel T6i)? I've never used anything more complicated than a little digital point and shoot.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

Geoff-PA said:


> Thanks @houseofcards.
> 
> Do you think one is easier to learn than the other (70D vs. Rebel T6i)? I've never used anything more complicated than a little digital point and shoot.


Really not much difference. Either way the beauty of using a good camera is going into manual mode, which will be a necessity for taking good fish pics. They come with user manuals but you could also pic up an easy to use guide for either camera o use the internet for tips and information.


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## Geoff-PA (Jun 5, 2016)

I guess what it comes down to is how much money I want to spend.


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## Kubla (Jan 5, 2014)

Everyone has a slightly different approach and there is a lot of good advice here. If I was doing it, I think I would try to find a good used body, stay away from the "kit" lenses and invest in some good glass. Look at upgrading the body down the line if you feel the need. I'm shooting with a T2i. It does everything I need. My next step will be full frame. I'm not sure if that will ever happen. You have to take things with a grain of salt and read between the lines, but the reviews on Amazon have a lot of good info when shopping for lenses.
I'm from the world of view cameras and usually shot 4X5 when I shot film. The glass was everything. The camera just held the film plate and lens board.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Geoff-PA said:


> I guess what it comes down to is how much money I want to spend.


always does... 
Anyways there are really no "bad" DSLR's that I can think of..
Consider what you want out of it..read a bit on those that want the same thing, and go from there..

I usually don't part. like "best of" guides but a quick browse is helpful:

Best DSLR Cameras of 2016 - From Beginner to Intermediate
Choosing the Best DSLR Camera for Beginners
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora...meras?BI=572&gclid=CMvZrI6nuc0CFdgQgQodnWkO0g

Another thing.. Think about "future" lenses/needs and check the accessory availability and price..

See w/ a car you don't have to really think ahead, like what type of tires you may want to buy..though things like "will it tow if I decide to buy a boat" do come into play..


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## jrygel (Jan 29, 2014)

Kubla said:


> Everyone has a slightly different approach and there is a lot of good advice here. If I was doing it, I think I would try to find a good used body, stay away from the "kit" lenses and invest in some good glass. Look at upgrading the body down the line if you feel the need. I'm shooting with a T2i. It does everything I need. My next step will be full frame. I'm not sure if that will ever happen. You have to take things with a grain of salt and read between the lines, but the reviews on Amazon have a lot of good info when shopping for lenses.
> I'm from the world of view cameras and usually shot 4X5 when I shot film. The glass was everything. The camera just held the film plate and lens board.


This is a good point. All Canon brand EF lenses made since 1987 still work on current cameras. The lens will make a bigger difference in image quality than any difference you will see between different camera bodies. 


For fish specific photography, you want a macro, and almost all true macro lenses made for Canon have excellent image quality; there are a couple to be avoided for macros of living things because of slow focus (Tamron 90mm, Canon 50mm f/2.5, maybe others?), but none will disappoint otherwise. Also, all standard macro lenses work well for standard photography as well, there are a couple specialized lenses that will not focus at typical distances (Canon MP-E), but that is not the norm.


-Justin


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## Geoff-PA (Jun 5, 2016)

Thank you all for your input and advice. I really do appreciate it. I've decided to go with the Rebel T6i. I'm excited, but I hope I can figure it out!


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

Geoff-PA said:


> Thank you all for your input and advice. I really do appreciate it. I've decided to go with the Rebel T6i. I'm excited, but I hope I can figure it out!


So that's a good choice. I was going to tell you maybe you should go with the T6i and use the extra money for the 60mm macro. Good fish lens, portrait and other uses. :grin2:


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## Geoff-PA (Jun 5, 2016)

houseofcards said:


> So that's a good choice. I was going to tell you maybe you should go with the T6i and use the extra money for the 60mm macro. Good fish lens, portrait and other uses. :grin2:


That's exactly what I was thinking! roud:


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## Geoff-PA (Jun 5, 2016)

Got the camera yesterday and still haven't had a chance to start playing around with it. Hopefully this weekend.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

Congrats! Once you start playing around with it and you have any questions, feel free.


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## Geoff-PA (Jun 5, 2016)

houseofcards said:


> Congrats! Once you start playing around with it and you have any questions, feel free.




Thanks, I really appreciate that!


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## Geoff-PA (Jun 5, 2016)

I finally got around to taking my first picture. I admit, it was in auto focus. Baby steps!


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

That's actually a pretty nice shot. Auto focus on the lens is fine, but you want to be in manual mode on the camera to compensate for the additional light needed to take good fish pics. The snail is a good start since it moves slower. It will get trickier with fish shots.


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## Geoff-PA (Jun 5, 2016)

You got that right! I had a heck of a time taking pictures of my cherry barbs and espei rasboras. I managed a couple decent ones, I guess. 





















And my pearl gourami and female cockatoo.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

Those are pretty nice, especially for your first shots with the camera. Most fish that are moving you probably need to get to at least 1/160 of n the shutter to have them really clear. In order to do that you usually need a fast lens (smaller F number like 1.8, 2.0, 2.8) and/or more lighting over the tank or off camera flash (speedlite).


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