# Do you need to add Macro Nutrients in tank with fish?



## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

Golightly said:


> Do you need to add Macro Nutrients in tank well stocked with fish? I also use ADA Brighty 1 and K which contains the micro's + Potassium.
> 
> I have a 50g tank with:
> 
> ...



you will need to dose MICRO's, is your tank low light, low tec, no co2?


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

Without knowing the important factors, we have no idea. Lights? Photoperiod? Co2? Substrate? Plants?


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

happi said:


> you will need to dose MICRO's, is your tank low light, low tec, no co2?


Step 1 is a micro.


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## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

over_stocked said:


> Step 1 is a micro.


sorry i meant to say micro


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## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

Golightly said:


> Do you need to add Macro Nutrients in tank well stocked with fish? I also use ADA Brighty 1 and K which contains the micro's + Potassium.
> 
> I have a 50g tank with:
> 
> ...



NPK dosing will depend on the factors mentioned by overstock


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## Golightly (Jan 14, 2011)

over_stocked said:


> Without knowing the important factors, we have no idea. Lights? Photoperiod? Co2? Substrate? Plants?


 
50g tank
Lights: 4x 36w T5
Pressurized CO2 (30ppm)
ADA Substrate + Powersand
Planted quite heavily with stem plants and crypts.


I'm just trying to figure out if I can skip doing Macro Fertilizers as I have fish in my tank. Or if I should still add Macro's even if I have fish.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Given your high lighting, I'm going to say most likely yes.


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

Golightly said:


> 50g tank
> *Lights: 4x 36w T5*
> Pressurized CO2 (30ppm)
> ADA Substrate + Powersand
> ...


Holy Crap. that is a LOT of light. So much that even super high co2(and almost everyone who says they have 30 ppm actually has much less....) and very high dosing. 

Yes, you need to dose macros. If you don't NPK will be the limiting factors in your tank and create a little algae circus.


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## snausage (Mar 8, 2010)

When I use aquasoil, I never dose N or P until the plants show a deficiency. In a 25 gallon tank w/ 24w T5 HOx 4 and a light fish load I didn't start dosing for about 2.5 months and everything looks great, no algae, etc. Even now I only dose small amount of N and P when the levels start to wane.


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## Brian3 (Jan 14, 2008)

Easily, Macros is provided by te substrate as aquasoil leech nutrients to water. That not is forever, you need to dose Macros sooner or later. I find the best way is to checke the N and P levels on the water and start dosing NPK. Ifyou use the right amount of NPK you dont get algae problems.


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## matt12 (Jan 16, 2011)

over_stocked said:


> Holy Crap. that is a LOT of light. So much that even super high co2(and almost everyone who says they have 30 ppm actually has much less....) and very high dosing.
> 
> Yes, you need to dose macros. If you don't NPK will be the limiting factors in your tank and create a little algae circus.


 ive got 6- 39w T5HO bulbs on my 40roud:


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

It isn't the number or sizes of the fish, it is how much high protein food you feed them. 
With that much light you would make a soupy mess using fish food as fertilizer, though it does have pretty much all the nutrients the plants want.

Much better to feed the fish with fish food, and count it as only a small amount of what the plants need. 

Feed the plants what they need using fertilizers.


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## Brian3 (Jan 14, 2008)

is better to feed the fish leaner and use Macro nutrients. If you feed the fish a lot the fish can sick, and suppousing that the fish create the sufficient nutrients, it need to be transformed in inorganic compounds by bacteria in the filter and in the substrate to be available to plants. So you need a good canister filter. In my experience the technique dont work and get a variety of algae.


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## Golightly (Jan 14, 2011)

Thanks for all the advice. I miss qouted, I have even higher lights than that. 4 x 39w high output T5 lamps. It's also got very good reflectors. But I thought it still counted as medium strenght lights at least when you do a Watt/Gallon count.

So it sounds like I have very high lights and need to be careful that I don't have lots of other limiting factors like Macro's etc.

I do feed my fish quite lightly, they eat it all up and very little gets to the bottom.


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## Golightly (Jan 14, 2011)

matt12 said:


> ive got 6- 39w T5HO bulbs on my 40roud:





snausage said:


> When I use aquasoil, I never dose N or P until the plants show a deficiency. In a 25 gallon tank w/ 24w T5 HOx 4 and a light fish load I didn't start dosing for about 2.5 months and everything looks great, no algae, etc. Even now I only dose small amount of N and P when the levels start to wane.


How long do you have your lights on for? I'm reading different things everywhere but settled for 8.5 hours, with 2 hours of dusk/dawn where I only use 2 of the 4 lamps.


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## snausage (Mar 8, 2010)

Golightly said:


> How long do you have your lights on for? I'm reading different things everywhere but settled for 8.5 hours, with 2 hours of dusk/dawn where I only use 2 of the 4 lamps.


10 hours continuously at full strength. But you have to consider your plants' light preference. All my plants are species that prefer bright light and are not harmed by it.

Remember that ADA recommends you start off with just trace elements and potassium. They have an incentive to sell you fertilizer, yet they are recommending that you forgo adding macro elements until the setup is one year old. As I said, I think the best approach when using aquasoil is to dose trace and K and keep an eye out for nitrogen deficiencies.


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## Golightly (Jan 14, 2011)

snausage said:


> 10 hours continuously at full strength. But you have to consider your plants' light preference. All my plants are species that prefer bright light and are not harmed by it.
> 
> Remember that ADA recommends you start off with just trace elements and potassium. They have an incentive to sell you fertilizer, yet they are recommending that you forgo adding macro elements until the setup is one year old. As I said, I think the best approach when using aquasoil is to dose trace and K and keep an eye out for nitrogen deficiencies.


That's very sensible advice, I didn't think of that. Thanks!

I would like to have mine on for 10 hours but afraid it will just encourage algae.


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

snausage said:


> 10 hours continuously at full strength. But you have to consider your plants' light preference. All my plants are species that prefer bright light and are not harmed by it.
> 
> Remember that ADA recommends you start off with just trace elements and potassium. They have an incentive to sell you fertilizer, yet they are recommending that you forgo adding macro elements until the setup is one year old. As I said, I think the best approach when using aquasoil is to dose trace and K and keep an eye out for nitrogen deficiencies.


Part of that reasoning is that they are trying to give you a reason to buy Aquasoil... This is no different than me telling you to use sand and root tabs or seachem recommending about 1/3 dosing of what is actually needed.

I have used aquasoil and like it very much, but dosing the water column is much benefited to the aquarium. Using dry powders makes it cost unrelated, and thus little reason not to.


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## Golightly (Jan 14, 2011)

over_stocked said:


> Part of that reasoning is that they are trying to give you a reason to buy Aquasoil... This is no different than me telling you to use sand and root tabs or seachem recommending about 1/3 dosing of what is actually needed.
> 
> I have used aquasoil and like it very much, but dosing the water column is much benefited to the aquarium. Using dry powders makes it cost unrelated, and thus little reason not to.


Ok, so you're saying the opposite. I should dose Macro's even with fish?


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## sepehr (Oct 6, 2010)

over_stocked said:


> Part of that reasoning is that they are trying to give you a reason to buy Aquasoil... This is no different than me telling you to use sand and root tabs or seachem recommending about 1/3 dosing of what is actually needed.
> 
> I have used aquasoil and like it very much, but dosing the water column is much benefited to the aquarium. Using dry powders makes it cost unrelated, and thus little reason not to.


So the dosing that Seachem suggests on their ferts is actually 1/3 what is needed? For instanse: they recommend using 5 ml of K for every 30 gallons and that's how much I've been dosing. No wonder, the older leaves of hygrophila polysperma have a whole bunch of pinholes in them.


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

Not sure if it is "1/3" but it is definitely low. And yes, I am suggesting you dose with fish. With high light and co2, allowing NPK to be low or relatively low is a good way to lead to problems.


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## Golightly (Jan 14, 2011)

over_stocked said:


> Not sure if it is "1/3" but it is definitely low. And yes, I am suggesting you dose with fish. With high light and co2, allowing NPK to be low or relatively low is a good way to lead to problems.


Ok, but my current NO3 value is around 100ppm, should I not wait until that's gone lower? (that's without dosing Macro's)


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

Obviously kno3 of 100 ppm is more than enough... Enough so that water changes should be done to keep it in check. My aquasoil never got levels that high when I had plants... 

I suspect your test kit is giving a little bit of a false high reading. If it isn't calibrated there is no way to know. I am sure it is PLENTY high though. But you might consider dosing phosphate, before it causes problems.


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## Golightly (Jan 14, 2011)

over_stocked said:


> Obviously kno3 of 100 ppm is more than enough... Enough so that water changes should be done to keep it in check. My aquasoil never got levels that high when I had plants...
> 
> I suspect your test kit is giving a little bit of a false high reading. If it isn't calibrated there is no way to know. I am sure it is PLENTY high though. But you might consider dosing phosphate, before it causes problems.


Yes, test kit won't be perfect but it's definitly above 25ppm and most likly between 50-100ppm. I did move some plants yesterday but did a 40% waterchange.. still might have had a ammonia spike because of it. 

But in short, should I dose Macro's when it's below 25ppm NO3? (Can't test for Phosphates.. might have to get test for that).


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