# clown loaches suddenly died?



## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

I would use 2 teaspoons of salt (it is a very low concentration). It is high enough though to block the proton pumps that the fish take up nitrates through and should offer relief.
No need to do anything about that afterwards, it will dilute out with future water changes. Also clean your filter (just the media, don't mess with the filter casing unless pipes are blocked)

Its a shame the info is a bit late, but it may help future readers.


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## evil nick (Oct 20, 2014)

Nordic said:


> I would use 2 teaspoons of salt (it is a very low concentration). It is high enough though to block the proton pumps that the fish take up nitrates through and should offer relief.
> No need to do anything about that afterwards, it will dilute out with future water changes. Also clean your filter (just the media, don't mess with the filter casing unless pipes are blocked)
> 
> Its a shame the info is a bit late, but it may help future readers.


I actually use a minimal amount of salt in my PWCs all the time. I also clean the filter media out during the change. Its always spotleess except for the massive amount of MTS that find their way in. 
My MTS situation is out of control, hence the introduction of loaches. They didnt seem to help. Does ANYTHING work to get rid of these!


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

How big are the clowns?

It's probably just bad water quality. The nitrate started out as ammonia.
Water change is probably the only solution. 

As for your snail problem, using loach is a problem. They're probably too small to get at the hard shell of the MTS. You can make snail traps and get them that way and stop over feeding the fish. Snail explosion is due to this.


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## Rinfish (Aug 16, 2015)

Grab some assassin snails, three will usually wipe out a large number of pest snails, maybe four since its a 30g tank. I have three in my 15g and i only see the tiny baby snails, they never get to full size. I have another nano where i breed them and plop the adults in just for supplementary feed, since i never tried to return them.

Good luck with everything else. =( I've heard that using stresscoat is actually not great for the fish, since it aggrivates their slime coat in a way that isnt healthy. Salt has been my go-to since then for my tank of cories and betta. Not sure if loach needs differ.


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

I would guess it is a combo of things at work. One is something you don't mention. I find that nitrate can be far higher without sudden death. But did you test for ammonia? The ammonia is far more toxic than nitrate and it does eventually pass from nitrite to nitrate. But what can happen is that we have an ammonia spike, perhaps caused by something as common as cleaning TOO WELL. 
I find many cases where fish I pick up in trades are living in totally bad conditions but have survived for months and really only struggle when they find my far better conditions in my tanks. Fish do not adapt well to massive changes but can when the conditions very slowly get worse. 
At this point it can only be a guess as any tank conditions will have changed, but I might think there was some large change that created a sudden ammonia spike. Had tests been run then it might have showed. When testing for nitrate, you may have been seeing the following results of the ammonia. But the damage to the fish had already been done. 
So that leaves you with fish would normally live with some stress who suddenly found more than they could handle and died. 
I do not find any advantage in adding salt to a freshwater tank as it does promote a stronger slime coat but that is due to the extra stress of living in the salt.


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## K1963158 (Aug 15, 2016)

evil nick said:


> No other fish seem worried.


I think an ammonia spike hurts bottom dwellers the worst. (someone correct me if I'm wrong) Maybe that's why the other fish were not affected.


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

PlantedRich said:


> I would guess it is a combo of things at work. One is something you don't mention. I find that nitrate can be far higher without sudden death. But did you test for ammonia? The ammonia is far more toxic than nitrate and it does eventually pass from nitrite to nitrate. But what can happen is that we have an ammonia spike, perhaps caused by something as common as cleaning TOO WELL.
> I find many cases where fish I pick up in trades are living in totally bad conditions but have survived for months and really only struggle when they find my far better conditions in my tanks. Fish do not adapt well to massive changes but can when the conditions very slowly get worse.
> At this point it can only be a guess as any tank conditions will have changed, but I might think there was some large change that created a sudden ammonia spike. Had tests been run then it might have showed. When testing for nitrate, you may have been seeing the following results of the ammonia. But the damage to the fish had already been done.
> So that leaves you with fish would normally live with some stress who suddenly found more than they could handle and died.
> I do not find any advantage in adding salt to a freshwater tank as it does promote a stronger slime coat but that is due to the extra stress of living in the salt.


 I am on board with all of this^.
Salt used regularly as mentioned, build's up over time and fishes like loaches with no scales will only tolerate it for so long.
Could be why OP mentions that no loaches do well for long with him/her.?
Loaches I have kept enjoyed cool oxygen rich water with moderate to brisk movement.
If snail population mentioned is as bad as mentioned ,then this is a sighn that plenty of food is available for their number's are directly tied to how much food is available.
In large number's they,along with the fish food,fish poo,contribute to bioload.
Can sometimes result in not enough export (water changes) of organic matter which in turn leads to ammonia increase and ultimate Nitrate increase but first must be ammonia at some point.


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

The bad part about ammonia is that it is not only a real hazard but also can be confusing if we are not aware. It is very easy to see a tank where "something" is wrong and the fish are acting somewhat off so we check the nitrate and it is a little high so we do a water change. But if we don't check the ammonia at the same time we can get into missing something. When we read the slightly high nitrate, it may be caused by the bacteria beginning to work on an ammonia spike. So a few days later we may do some testing and check the ammonia and find none but we get even higher nitrate. But we changed a little bit of water so it should be lower? WRONG!
We may have been testing at the front end of the ammonia to nitrite to nitrate waves and missed the main event! 
When things look "off" I do a full test of ammonia, nitrite and also nitrate. One small fish laying hidden somewhere can lead to all kinds of havoc and be eaten and gone before we really get down to finding it and that can lead us to doubt everything we know about how the tank runs. 
So we can wind up not knowing what happened as it is now all clear!


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## evil nick (Oct 20, 2014)

I always check amm, trites and trates. The first two were nothing. Just the trates were that high. I guess it could have been ammonia in the beginning and yes that would explain a lot. My snails I think are more because of algea and plants being available more than my food. I feed enough flakes for them to eat then live worms . I cant honestly understand the amount of snails that exploded. I thought it was under control but then yesterday was jaw dropped at the amount I hadnt seen in a while. Ill try assassins again but they didnt work the first time for me. Heck Ill dump 20 of them in there if it would work but Ive heard even they cant get through an MTS shell or cover. 


Im going to swap to my bigger tank, hopefully SOON, then literally NUKE the entire small tank out of spite! Not really but I will clean it up really well cause I want to make a saltwater tank next.

I used to do a weekly water change but then got sloppy because I became so busy and went every two weeks. I was checking water quality periodically and it didnt seem like it was being affected so I thought it was fine.


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

I aggree, salt should not be a permanent fixture as this negates any therapeutic use of it.


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## evil nick (Oct 20, 2014)

thanks guys Im going to taper the water out and hopefully bring the saline level down. I have not started using it in the replacement tank so Im thinking it might just never find its way in. Salt was just advice I picked up and it never seemed to affect the fish and always heard it just helped. I never used much, basically a teaspoon and a half each water change so like that much for 10 gallons. I didnt put any in last one cause I forgot so maybe that was a sign.

wanna hear someting odd though. BOTH my ottos are still alive and going strong, even getting fatter. These things should have been dead forever ago I would think then lol


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