# New World 90gal Low Tech- a Pictoral Journey! 11/11- planned teardown!



## James From Cali

OMG I cannot wait to see this tank up and running. What ar you going to do plant wise?


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## lauraleellbp

Tank #2 came from Tpt's own Forddna, it has sat here in my office next to me for the last century, it seems...:










The stand came from Drs.F&S, and will be assembled (hopefully) by tonight.

I'm VERY happy with my new light fixture; for only $40 more I upgraded from an Odyssea 260w PC (it went with the old tank) to this Solar T5HO with individual reflectors and moonlights:



















There are currently 2 actinic bulbs and 2 10k bulbs, which I'm calculating will give me 108 watts of T5HO 10k lighting for the plants. Remember, this is a low tech tank! I'm going to start with 8 hours of 10k, run the actinics during the rest of the day for my own viewing pleasure, and then moonlights at night. This tank is in my home office, and since I work from home (spending a lot of time in my office!) I want to be able to view the fish all the time.

For filtration I'll pair a Rena Filstar XP2 with an HOB filter; first an Emperor 400 (used) though I'll likely upgrade in a little while to a new Aquaclear.

I plan on using a heater for the first time in probably 15 years... I got a Hydor 300watt inline, and will start with about 80 degrees for the tank. If/when I get discus I'll bump it up to 82/83.

Substrate issues sparked a huge amount of research for me. I originally was going to use EcoComplete, but after purchase learned that Eco has a tendency to raise and buffer pH and hardness. As this tank may house discus in the near future, I took it back and traded for Fluorite black and Fluorite black sand. My entire substrate plan:
-bottom layer of peat mixed with established tank mulm
-mixture of 2 bags Fluorite black, 4 bags Fluorite black sand, + 50lbs black Colorquartz T grade
-35lbs of black gravel for an unplanted "river" (I HATE white sand! LOL)

I'm going to see how this tank does with no fert dosing. Instead I'll be using WonderGro fert tabs (from TPT's own Orlando).


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## lauraleellbp

James From Cali said:


> OMG I cannot wait to see this tank up and running. What ar you going to do plant wise?


Lots and lots of swords- I'm totally infatuated with them!!

Echinodorus tenellus and E. tenellus 'narrow' will be the carpet. An E. "Kleiner bar" will be my Specimen plant. I have a new species, E. africanus on order that should come in next week. I have some E. angustifolius 'vesuvius' floating in my 10gal ATM waiting. I also want to try E. parvaflorus 'tropica,' though I hear that they may need additional lighting. I keep going back and forth whether I want Jungle vals, V. nana, or E. angustifolius in the background... I may also go for some Rubins and/or Indian Reds.

For stems I have Cabomba floating in another tank ATM, Bacopa carolinia and Blood Stargrass (Didiplis diandra) on the way next week.


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## James From Cali

Yay, a Sword Tank. I think it will look awesome. Good luck with all the tanks.


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## SeaSerpant

Wow i was just waiting for you to set up a tank journal. i can't believe it took this long.  lol.


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## James From Cali

SeaSerpant said:


> Wow i was just waiting for you to set up a tank journal. i can't believe it took this long.  lol.


Better late than never though.Any pics of some of the respective plants?


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## lauraleellbp

You would ask... LOL :icon_mrgr 

These are pics I've collected from various places for inspiration:

Echinodorus angustifolius 'vesuvius'









Vallisneria nana:









OR

E. angustifolius:









E. tenellus 'narrow' (carpet plant, these are some of the actual plants since this is my 10gal I will be pulling from, that cory cat (Corydoras schwartzii) will go over, too  )









E. 'Indian red'









E. 'Kleiner bar'









E. parviflorus 'tropica'









E. 'Red Rubin'









Oh yeah - Frontinalis antipyretica (Willow moss) will go on the Manzanita driftwood









Didiplis diandra (Blood stargrass)









Bacopa caroliniana









Cabomba furcata (on the left)









This tank has the only pics of E. africanus I can locate ATM, they're in the back (I'm buying them from this owner, I REALLY like this tank  ):


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## James From Cali

:drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: 

I am so subscribing to this thread now lol. And of course I would ask . Let me know how that _Didiplis diandra_ does. I heard it needs high light. 

BTW I would go with the _Echinodrous angustifolia_ over Vals. Keep it in the Echino Family(Yes I too have an unnatural infatuation with Sword Plants aswell lol)!


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## lauraleellbp

Yep some of these I may need to swap out one of my actinics for a Geisemann 6000k to keep showing any reds... we'll see. I'll probably float the cabomba?


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## James From Cali

Yeah get those actinics out. They do nothing for plants and I think you would be better off with regular flourescents. I think the floating combomba would look nice. Of course I always find that if any plant gets in front of the outflow it goes under water and makes a mess.


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## lauraleellbp

LOL if I put the full 216watts of T5HO lighting over this tank it will DEFITINELY *NOT* be a low-tech tank any more! I'm hoping that 108 watts won't be too much, as it is...


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## deleted_user_16

wait, willow moss isn't SA, is it?


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## James From Cali

Experiment with it.....thats always fun! I just read about your gravel desicion. You are using flourite black and black sand as the main substrate right? Then you are going to have a black gravel river stream thing . Are they different shades or is the work you put into it going to be worthless?

Also is this going to be a biotope or something down those lines. Maybe I missed it(doing homework and this at one time lol).


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## lauraleellbp

fishman9809 said:


> wait, willow moss isn't SA, is it?


Nope it's a New World *themed* tank, not a straight up biotope. There are some plants included from the USA (aka willow moss), plus some that are cultivars. I'll also have Amano and RCS, LOL

James, I'm not looking for contrast with my river, just with the totally gravel portion there should be no or minimal plant growth... this strategy worked pretty well for me in the past when I had a pea gravel "river" surrounded by regular Fluorite...


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## eyebeatbadgers

This should turn out to be a very nice easy to care for tank. I'd say the bulbs you have now will be just fine to grow those swords out. Maybe you could bring out the reds by keeping the nitrates low?


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## lauraleellbp

I hope it ends up low-maintenance, Eyebeat! Not sure what bulbs you were referring to, though, and swords don't grow from bulbs? I'm going to try and get away without dosing the water column at all, just stick with fert tabs; we'll see how it goes. 

Here's my stocking plan ATM:

10 Amano shrimp _Caridina japonica_
10 Red cherry shrimp _Neocaridina denticulata sinensis_ 
10 Oto cats _Otocinclus affinis_
10 Cory cats _Corydoras trilineatus_ 
2 6" Clown loaches _Chromobotia macracanthus_
1 Clown pleco _Panaque maccu_
50 Cardinal tetras _Paracheirodon axelrodi_ 
20 Rummy-nose tetras _Hemigrammus bleheri_
12 Colombian tetras _Hyphessobrycon columbianus_
12 Dwarf silver hatchets _Carnegiella schereri_

Amano shrimp









Red cherry shrimp







http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj72/lauraleellbp/NeocaridinadenticulatasinensisvarRe.jpg

Oto cats









Cory cats









Clown loaches (these are the 2 that are moving up in the world from my 46gal)









Clown pleco









Cardinal tetras









Rummy-nosed tetras









Colombian tetras









Dwarf silver hatchets


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## lescarpentier

lauraleellbp said:


> I hope it ends up low-maintenance, Eyebeat! Not sure what bulbs you were referring to, though, and swords don't grow from bulbs?


I think that he means your lights.


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## lauraleellbp

lescarpentier said:


> I think that he means your lights.


oooOOO my bad- that make so much more sense! :icon_redf


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## deleted_user_16

why don't you go for a HUGE school of corydoras hastatus? they are soooo small. Also, where do you find your pygmy hatchets? I could not find 'em online anywhere.


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## eyebeatbadgers

lauraleellbp said:


> oooOOO my bad- that make so much more sense! :icon_redf



....I was... I guess I should have been more descriptive.


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## lauraleellbp

fishman9809 said:


> why don't you go for a HUGE school of corydoras hastatus? they are soooo small. Also, where do you find your pygmy hatchets? I could not find 'em online anywhere.


C. trilineatus is my personal favorite. I already have one, and I'm pretty sure he'd like some buddies! If it were a smaller tank I'd go with dwarf cories for sure, though- I really do like them!

I haven't located the dwarf hatchets yet, but I'm pretty sure I'll be able to get my LFS to special-order them for me, if nothing else.


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## deleted_user_16

yeah, they are sooooooooooo hard to find.


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## SHAMEEK

wow gr8 job !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
execelent looking budy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## rasetsu

I have two really fat clown plecos. Cute little buggers.


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## srud

Very nice. I can't wait to see this come together. I'm particularly interested in the black flourite and the black river gravel concept.

I have a couple of large swords (1 amazon and 1 Kleiner Bar) in my 75 today. I also have a couple of Pleco's (recent additions) in there too. Much to my dismay, they are eating my Amazon's leaves to transparency :icon_cry:. They don't seem to like the Kleiner Bar as much. I mention this because I notice that you are planning to add some pleco's to this tank.

btw. My pleco's are the Temmicki (sp?) variety. I'm really iffy on the spelling of that. I have it written down at home. I will say this though, unlike a common pleco, they are extremely active and are doing a great job on cleaning up what algae I have.


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## Ozymandias

I love Corydoras trilineatus can't wait to see you're tank incomplete


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## rasetsu

srud said:


> I have a couple of large swords (1 amazon and 1 Kleiner Bar) in my 75 today. I also have a couple of Pleco's (recent additions) in there too. Much to my dismay, they are eating my Amazon's leaves to transparency :icon_cry:. They don't seem to like the Kleiner Bar as much. I mention this because I notice that you are planning to add some pleco's to this tank.


My two clown plecos don't do anything but hide out under the driftwood and come out only to munch on algae wafers.


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## lauraleellbp

SUBSTRATE WASHING DAY

Here's what $175 worth of substrate looks like, laying in the sun to dry:









*In order of ease in rinsing*

AquaPebbles 6 bags = 30lbs (black gravel on far right of main pic)









Fluorite Black (far left of main pic, 2 bags = 31lbs)









Fluorite black sand (2nd from left in main pic, 4 bags = 62lbs)

















Colorquartz T grade, 2nd from right, 1 bag = 50lbs (I was surprised that this took the MOST rinsing!)


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## eyebeatbadgers

Wow. Looks like fun


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## Ozymandias

finally get to see it all. looks good again can't wait to see it in the tank


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## James From Cali

Good fun lol.


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## rasetsu

Wuhstoff knives...my favorite.

Gawd, gravel rinsing is a pain....went with Eco-Complete to avoid that.


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## lauraleellbp

So I walk outside to shift the substrate around some, expose more to the sun, and just the Fluorite sand is covered in honeybees?


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## fishscale

rasetsu said:


> Wuhstoff knives...my favorite.
> 
> Gawd, gravel rinsing is a pain....went with Eco-Complete to avoid that.


PShhht, when I make it big as a rapper, I'm gonna buy me some Global GS's. WITH RIMS.

Interesting substrate choices. If you don't mind me asking, what were the prices on these? I'm looking to mix or replace my SMS, since it weighs roughly as much as a pleco fart.


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## lauraleellbp

I got the Fluorite all from my LSF for $20/bag (6 bags x 15.4 lbs/bag)
Colorquartz from local pool supply company $23 for 50lb bag
AquaPebbles on Ebay, $25 for 30lbs shipped

Approx. 175lb total and approx $1/lb

(No one had better say a THING to my hubby about my using "his" knives to open bags hehehehe)

ROFL @ "weighs about as much as a pleco fart"


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## SeaSerpant

Hope does you good for substrate. Any pics of it?


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## James From Cali

lauraleellbp said:


> I got the Fluorite all from my LSF for $20/bag (6 bags x 15.4 lbs/bag)
> Colorquartz from local pool supply company $23 for 50lb bag
> AquaPebbles on Ebay, $25 for 30lbs shipped
> 
> Approx. 175lb total and approx $1/lb
> 
> (No one had better say a THING to my hubby about my using "his" knives to open bags hehehehe)
> 
> ROFL @ "weighs about as much as a pleco fart"


*How to get a hold of Laura Lees hubby*

Just kidding......at least you didnt use your moms good fork to digest a frog lol.


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## Wingsdlc

So I am guessing this flourite black is becoming more common now? Do you happen to have any of the info on the product?


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## lauraleellbp

Seachem still hasn't posted any, at least not that I'm aware of? I did read through a Seachem thread where they said that they should be posting "soon," and the substrates are "comparable" to the old Fluorite.

LOL @ James- so did your mom catch you?


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## James From Cali

Yes she did....lets just say there was yelling and me running from a flying fork lol.


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## Buck

Laura maybe the bees thought your new substrate was so "sweet looking" they had to take a closer look ! That should look nice in the tank. 

I hope you have better luck with the hatchets then I did. One by one they thought the grass was greener on the other side and dove for it. :icon_cry: 
I have always run open top tanks so they were not a good choice and I learned the hard way.

I cant wait to see ya get it up and running and see how it works with the new substrate...


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## SeaSerpant

Nvm Saw the pic on the other page.


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## dekstr

Great to see your tank finally progressing along Laura!

I have learned a lot from your posts and will continue to learn more from this journal.

Hmm those actinics would be okay for viewing purposes. It's also good as you know you always have the option of going high light!

How big is the tank anyway? Footprint and gallons?

Keep updated because I'm subscribing!


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## dekstr

Also those clown loaches might wreak havoc to your plants. I know this guy with a half dozen clown loaches in a 90g, he tried to make it planted but every single plant got annihiliated by those fish. So be careful!


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## lauraleellbp

Sea- if you go to your User Profile you can change your setting to view more posts on one page; sure makes reading long threads faster!  

James- good thing she's got bad aim? :icon_eek: lol

Buck- I'm quite happy with the bees OUTSIDE, lol

Dekstr- The tank is a standard 90gal AGA; 48"L x 18"W x 25"H I'm nervous about the Clowns loaches, as well... they'll probably go in last, after the plants have had plenty of time to root and establish. I'm hoping they just play in the gravel "river" that won't be planted?


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## lauraleellbp

Layering down the substrate:

I poured in a small bucket of established tank mulm mixed with a few handfulls of Sphagnum moss (peat)

















Next I put down a layer of Colorquartz to hold all the mulm and peat in place so I could lay the rest of the substrate without the mulm mixture all getting pushed into one corner of the tank (it worked really well!) I used a garden trowel to lay down one trowelfull at a time. Used about 1/2 the Colorquartz (25 lbs)

















Next I sprinkled over just a few more handfulls of peat:









Then I laid down my gravel "river"

















Then I laid down the rest of the CQ mixed in with the Fluorite black sand:









And finally capped the planted area with the regular Fluorite black:









And here's a FTS with the stand and light fixture:









SOOO tomorrow I get to design my Manzanita 'scape, figure out how to fill this beast with water, and hopefully start planting what plants I have!!


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## deleted_user_16

where'd u get ur driftwood?


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## BiscuitSlayer

Laura Lee -

That is one of the most detailed substrate executions that I have ever seen. 

One thing I would be highly interested in is someone snapping a picture of you putting some plants in there. I have been torn between a 75 and a 90, but I don't have too much perspective on how much more difficult it would be to plant and maintain a 90.

I am interested to see how your tank starts and progresses. Its looking good so far.


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## lauraleellbp

Fish- the Manzanita is from Badcopno.. in the S&S here on the forum :thumbsup: 

Biscuit- I definitely have to use a stepladder and do some serious stretching to reach the bottom of this tank with my little 5'4" self! LOL My 6"1" husband doesn't have any problem, though. For me, it's jus another reason I really hope this tank is low-maintenance.  

With mostly swords in the long run (I anticipate I'll eventually only keep one stem plant once everything gets established) I'm hoping my hands won't need to go in there all that often? I'll have to see if I can twist my hubby's arm more to take some pics of me planting


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## James From Cali

Laura Lee, I like the division of the substrates because it looks like its bleding in. Now get that wood in and more pics


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## SeaSerpant

I love how you did the substrates. i think the way you set it up will be great.


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## @[email protected]

flourite sand!?
you are just asking for cloudy water. like really cloudy, and every time a fish swims by.


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## SeaSerpant

I hope my 120g will look half as good as yours


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## lauraleellbp

*INITIAL PLANTING BEGINS:*










The plan:

_Echinodorus tenellus_ will surround the driftwood. A carpet of _E. tenellus 'narrow'_ will be planted along the front and run up to the "river." 

Twisty _E. angustifolius 'vesuvius'_ will grow up among the driftwood, just in front of "regular" _E. angustifolius_, which will be in the back right corner of the tank. A total of three _E. africanus_ will be planted to either side of the "stump."

_Bacopa caroliniana_ will be a backdrop across the other 1/2 of the tank (where the Cabomba is currently) and Blood stargrass (_Didiplis diandra_) and Stargrass (_Heteranthera zosterifolia_) will go in front (eventually the one stem that does best will probably become the only stem plant in the tank; I'm guessing this will be Bacopa?)

A specimen _Echinodorus 'Kleiner bar'_ will go in front of the "broken limb" and become the focal point of the tank. The "riverbank" will probably be lined with either _E. parviflorus 'Tropica'_ or _Hydrocotyle_?

Current plants (too bad my photography skills are so lousy! My apologies!): _Cabomba furcata, Echinodorus tenellus, E. angustifolius 'vesuvius'_




























These shots were taken IMMEDIATELY after planting- NO CLOUDY WATER! (All I did was scrape the bubbles off the tank walls.) Drying the substrate before putting it in the tank makes a BIG difference- I didn't cloud the water at all throughout filling the tank or planting!


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## lauraleellbp

Hmmm looking at the FTS I'm not sure I like the placement of that "broken limb;" the piece sticking up is to centered in the tank? I might play with that some tomorrow... it doesn't look quite so prominent in real life, though.


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## James From Cali

The combomba looks really out of place to me. It just doesnt belong. Nice shots though.


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## SeaSerpant

Looks great. i do think the one branch in the middle is kind of an eye sore but it's your call. and combomba?


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## lauraleellbp

Yep the _Cabomba furcata_ will either end up a floating plant or go away all together... it's there now just to be a nutrient hog, and it's planted to make sure it gets some light and keep it out of my way. I still need to set up the filter LOL

I'm going to throw in some MTS, and I'm debating which fish from my other tanks to move over tonight to keep the cycle going...


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## SeaSerpant

so the sickly looking plant on the left? can't wait to see when it clears up a bit.


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## lauraleellbp

Sea- the more I looked at it the more I agreed with you... I think this is better? Keep in mind a large sword will go in front of it... and I'm going to have to regroup the E. tenellus


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## deleted_user_16

Its doing great!!!!! What else are you putting in?


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## BiscuitSlayer

Lauralee -

Thanks for getting that pic of you planting the tank. Your pic is definatly swaying me to lean towards a 75... LOL.

I am about 1/2 way between you and your husband at about 5'8", so I think I would struggle a bit with my bad back trying to get into the tank like that.

Thanks for catering to my request as well as sharing!


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## lauraleellbp

Actually, with long tweezers and a stepstool it wasn't that bad? I"m only standing on the first rung of my 3-stepper...


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## SeaSerpant

Well looking at it i think it looks more prominent because the bottom is black from the shadow. i will keep in mind that there will be plants going in front of it.


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## BiscuitSlayer

lauraleellbp said:


> Actually, with long tweezers and a stepstool it wasn't that bad? I"m only standing on the first rung of my 3-stepper...


I know this is going to sound weird, but would you mind measuring the height from the first step to the floor on your step ladder and provide and estimate of how far the distance is from your finger tips to the substrate as well as the approximate substrate depth? LOL 

I figure that since I am 5'8" ish and you are 5'4", that would give me about a 2" reach advantage which might not be too bad. If you have a 4 inch depth on your substrate though, there goes my advantage, because I only plan on about 2".

The other thing though, is that my stand might actually be shorter than yours at 27.5" from the floor to the bottom rim of the tank.

I'd really like a 90, but I'm worried that it might be too high for me to work on.

Your tank is going to look great. I am interested to see how that T5 fixture works for you.


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## lauraleellbp

Biscuit:

First step to the floor is 8 1/2 "

49-3/8" x 19-3/8" x 28-1/4"H are the specs Dr.F&S gives for my stand.

I can touch the substrate in the front with my fingertips even without standing on the stepladder, but I do have 4 1/2" of substrate on the far left, only 2" on the right side (and I can still touch, though I have to stand on tippy toes). The stepstool helps me reach the back of the tank and gives me height so I can see what I'm doing.

Fish- if you go back through the thread, I've got lists and pics of what's going in this tank.


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## BiscuitSlayer

lauraleellbp said:


> Biscuit:
> 
> First step to the floor is 8 1/2 "
> 
> 49-3/8" x 19-3/8" x 28-1/4"H are the specs Dr.F&S gives for my stand.
> 
> I can touch the substrate in the front with my fingertips even without standing on the stepladder, but I do have 4 1/2" of substrate on the far left, only 2" on the right side (and I can still touch, though I have to stand on tippy toes). The stepstool helps me reach the back of the tank and gives me height so I can see what I'm doing.


Oh man, everything sounds good except for (49-3/8" x 19-3/8" x 28-1/4"H ).

I thought that the 75 gallon and 90 gallon tanks had the same foot print with regards to width and length. Sounds like they are a bit different. A standard 75 is 48 and 3/8" X 18 3/8" measuring either the bottom or top plastic rim.

Thanks for the info Laura Lee. Your sharing of info in this tank journal is very helpful. I am looking forward to it unfolding as it matures.

Thanks again!


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## lauraleellbp

Biscuit- they are the same- my stand is rated for either a 75 or a 90gal tank; there's 1/2" of stand showing all around the edges of the tank. :thumbsup:


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## JustOneMore21

Excellent start, Laura! I love how you have the substrate in there, with the gravel on the side. That driftwood is awesome too! I'll be checking this out to see your progress!


Are you worried about the loaches eating the Shrimp? My thoughts would be that they would eat them, but I'm not sure. I know you'll have a ton of shrimp, but it would be awesome to see them all out and about with the schooling fish. Have you thought about an alternative, like Sidthimunki loaches (Dwarf Chain)? They are super cute! I'd also be afraid of big Clown Loaches running over the Cories! I had some Yoyo loaches that did that and they weren't as big as Clowns.


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## lauraleellbp

Thanks, Kristen  

I'm not happy with the driftwood yet... I really like that long branch but it's giving me a headache; I've moved it 2 more times since the last photo... LOLOL Oh well I have several more days to play with it before my moss should come in...


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## lauraleellbp

oops you added some more while I was typing... 

I HOPE the clowns can go in this tank; they're outgrowing my 46gal and I've had them for about 8 years now? I'm going to let the tank get established and add them last for a test run... If they don't work out I'll have to either rehome them or take them to my LFS (they've moved from TX with me!  )


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## SeaSerpant

are you attached to the clown loaches because you have had them for a while then.


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## JustOneMore21

Sorry! I tend to add stuff once I've posted....

I didn't realize you already had the Clowns. That makes sense why you want to incorporate them into the tank.  I can understand that you wouldn't want to give them up now, after 8 years.....wow...that's a long time!

Your Rummynose school is going to be amazing! I can't wait to see pics.


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## SeaSerpant

Wow i really can't sleep. anything new?


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## lauraleellbp

Me neither!  

Nope. I'm done getting my sleeves wet for the night lol

I may play with that driftwood more tomorrow, I think I need to sleep on it. I've got about 2x more pieces I could play with, but they're alot thinner...


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## SeaSerpant

well once your tired enough to fall asleep, go to bed.


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## Buck

lauraleellbp said:


> I've got about 2x more pieces I could play with, but they're alot thinner...


Lookin good Laura, I love the large piece of DF. Maybe you could add the last 3 thinner pieces to the base of the large one and angle them out from the base toward the center and front of the tank?
Also with the height of the tank, a nice stand of Balansae's would be ideal for behind the driftwood. Its a beautiful plant and would make the wood stand out in the scape. 

Aint it fun starting a new tank... minus the soggy fingers, sore back and wet sleeves of course ! :redface:


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## lauraleellbp

Thanks for the comments and suggestions, Buck. I do love crypts and a Balansae would look lovely back there, but since I'm trying to stick with a South American theme (mostly anyways), I'm going to go more for a jungle val type effect with E. angustifolius mixed in with a new sword- E. africanus?

I also think I need to pick up some twist ties to work more on the driftwood; I'd use zip ties but I change my mind too much ATM!  Your idea of attaching some of the smaller pieces might work, though...

Sea- I realized I didn't answer a question earlier; yeah, I'm a little attached to my clowns now, even though one of them is a complete Rogue!


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## SeaSerpant

Just bound to be one crazy one ain't there?


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## lauraleellbp

Yup. :icon_conf 

New snag- the tubing for the intake on my Rena XP2 is too short! aaaaaa Guess I'll be on the hunt now for a new intake tube...

EDIT- problem solved- a genius friend of mine who possesses the elusive gift of common sense suggested I put the filter on top of something! So it's sitting on top of a make-do wire stand till I get something more sturdy (might scour the neighborhood for a cinder block, there's got to be one somewhere around...)


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## lauraleellbp

Added some fish, mostly to make sure the cycle keeps going from the established media I added to the XP2 (some mulm also went under the substrate). Ammonia, nitrItes and nitrAtes all at 0ppm ATM, yesterday and again today...

Added/transferred from my other tanks:

1 clown pleco
2 cory cats
3 female cherry barbs (temporary)
1 extremely unhappy senior citizen Tiger barb (also probably temporary)
2 Amano shrimp
12 or so Red cherry shrimp
12 or so Malaysian Trumpet Snails

I'm debating adding the Clown loaches now as a trial run- see if they dig up the plants in there now, and see if they leave the shrimp alone? Since the tank isn't 'scaped yet to my satisfaction, and there's not that many shrimp in there yet, I'm thinking now may be as good a time as any for the test run? I'm sure it would make the poor Tiger barb happy to see his old buds... (he's busy playing "I can't see you so you can't see me" in the Cabomba ATM)

The Amanos, on the other hand, are cracking me up- they've thoroughly investigated every inch of their new home, and now they're zooming back and forth across the front of the tank like crazy! LOL


----------



## lescarpentier

lauraleellbp said:


> 12 or so Malaysian Trumpet Snails


12 today,=1200 tomorrow.


----------



## lauraleellbp

LOL Yeah! I think I've got about 12000 million in my 10gal ATM. Hopefully the Clown loaches will keep them a little more under control in the 90gal, though?

Went ahead and transferred the Clowns over, VOILA! The Tiger barb is out and swimming happily about, sticking near the Clowns, though. So far the Clowns are behaving themselves. They seem to like the Cabomba, too. I kinda thought they'd stake out the driftwood?

The Amanos keep playing Chickenfish with the Cherry barbs, the Cories are infatuated with their reflections in the tank glass, and it's a good thing I don't have much real work to do today b/c I'm not going to get much of ANYTHING done besides watch my new tank! ROFL


----------



## lauraleellbp

Quick update. Everyone seems pretty happy. Active, eating well, and everyone out in the open. Ammonia and nitrItes still zero, haven't bothered checking nitrAtes yet today. I still need to get new gH and kH tests. I keep forgetting to test pH. I need to see if that peat is doing anything...

The loaches aren't digging that I've seen, but I do have about 3 plants floating ATM; probably just not planted too well and knocked loose from swimming though. Some of my plants got a little uprooted playing with the driftwood arrangement. I'm still not happy with it... I actually plan on pulling everything up and out and working on the substrates levels some, as well (don't like where it's all mounded ATM). 

More plants should be in later this week; _Bacopa caroliniana, Didiplis diandra,_ stargrass (can't spell the latin name on that one for the life of me, Heter-whatever z-whatever LOL), _Echinodorus africanus, E. tenellus 'narrow',_ and _E. angustifolius_. This actually just leaves me still needing my _E. 'Kleiner bar'_ and perhaps some other swords to complete the species. I might order some additional quantities of the plants to help fill in the scape.

I also need to decide on another filter. The XP2 is doing fine for now (and I REALLY like it!!) but I'll definitely need more filtration and flow with additional plants and fish. Keeping an eye out for a good price on a used Rena, Fluval, Eheim, or AquaClear...

Tannins are definitely still coming off the driftwood like crazy. I'll add some AC when I get the new filter to help with those. No room in the current filter since I need to keep the established media in there. 

The actinic bulbs actually make the water look green with the tannins LOL. I'm also pretty sure I'm going to need to replace one of the actinics with a 6000k; I can tell a dramatic difference in the tops vs the bottoms of the Cabomba and I'm pretty sure also from the look of the E. tenellus that the bottom of the tank isn't getting enough light ATM. I'll probably order a Geisemann 6000k next week.

Found a good deal on a 20gal QT tank on CraigsList, hope to pick that up on Thursday if the guy gets back with me.


----------



## A Hill

So far so good tank wise!

I just today also took down my 55g, cleaned it all out, and set it back up just with TMS (moon sand) Its a bit cloudy but I really just dumped the water in at first since it was the finishing leg of the race:icon_neut now the water is a bit cloudy but ohh well. I'm liking the DW! Just sent him a PM for some as well.

One thing I do want to give you a heads up on is the Willow moss aka Frontinallis. (might be fontinallis, can't remember if the R is correct or not)



fishman9809 said:


> wait, willow moss isn't SA, is it?


Nope it isn't, It also is tough to really get going well in warm water let alone hot! I've collected some here and there just to watch it die after three months of acclimating.

That being said, if you still want some, I should be able to collect you a good sized clump. You would have to dip it, wash it, etc. but for the price If I can get a clump the size I'm thinking could be worth it.

Let me know when you get that far, since I'm also going to be getting some for my 55g soon hopefully this week I'll start looking.

I like your stock list!
-Andrew


----------



## lauraleellbp

Thanks for the offer, Andrew. I've got some Willow moss on the way from a RAOK, ATM- I'll see how it does?

The tank's just at room temp right now, too... I'll probably keep it that way for at least a while.

Mosses have always done well in my tanks? Java's a weed and a half (I keep trying to get rid of it in my 10gal without much success LOL) and flame moss is doing really well, Pellia OK, and they're also in a room temp tank... so we'll see?

If the Willow moss does well I might take you up on that offer!

What will you be stocking in your 55?


----------



## sea-horsea

wut are those grassy looking plants in the picture where you buying the plants from? wow i want one of those...


----------



## lauraleellbp

The grassy plants are Echinodorus tenellus (pygmy chain sword). I'm getting most of my plants from the S&S :thumbsup: Those E. tenellus came from Chalu here on this forum (he's on vacation ATM). Some others from another plant forum (APC), and the rest will come from AquaBotanic.com.


----------



## James From Cali

I cant keep Java Moss alive what-so-ever yet I hear claims that it grows like a weed, what gives?lol. LuaraLee, it would look great.


----------



## lauraleellbp

Java moss isn't a New World species. Willow moss is, so I'm going to give it a try. If it doesn't work I'll probably skip moss all together...


----------



## James From Cali

Cant wait to see exactly how you use the moss in this design


----------



## A Hill

lauraleellbp said:


> Thanks for the offer, Andrew. I've got some Willow moss on the way from a RAOK, ATM- I'll see how it does?


Yeah let me know, Acclimating it to tropical temperatures is a pain but once it is acclimated its nice. 



lauraleellbp said:


> The tank's just at room temp right now, too... I'll probably keep it that way for at least a while.


Thats good to know. Remember most willow mosses are coming from cool streams:icon_cool Even cooler than your tank, so don't be surprised if It takes a while to acclimate.. but if its from another hobbyist it might not be as bad hopefully



lauraleellbp said:


> Mosses have always done well in my tanks? Java's a weed and a half (I keep trying to get rid of it in my 10gal without much success LOL) and flame moss is doing really well, Pellia OK, and they're also in a room temp tank... so we'll see?


Yeah, same here. I actually have stopped keeping java for that reason. Remember that these mosses are all "tropical" origin most from china and Southeast Asia, verses willow which is found all over north America. 



lauraleellbp said:


> If the Willow moss does well I might take you up on that offer!
> 
> What will you be stocking in your 55?


Stocking plant wise will be all epiphytes. Mosses, Anubis, ferns, and also stems to soak up stuff. It will be all fertilized via Water collumn as thats something I've never done (shame shame on me) 

For fauna I'll probably go with shrimp. I do love German blue rams though.. and sand substrate is perfect for breeding so I'll see. Shrimp will be probably snowballs or yellows. Cherries are if I'm lazy. Also some dwarf corries, ottos, and bushy nose plecos, and some clams.

I'll be starting a thread sooner or later.

so back to your tank!

-Andrew


----------



## eyebeatbadgers

As a note of my personal experience, willow moss does not attach to wood as well as other mosses, such as java and taiwan. The moss is growing and healthy, but just doesn't "stick" as well or as quickly as other mosses. It might just be me though.


----------



## lauraleellbp

*Rescape with new plants*

OK so a bunch of new plants came in today- so I rescaped the entire tank.

I leveled out the substrate some. I was pleasantly surprised at how little cloudiness it caused!

I rearranged the driftwood. I'm pretty happy with this arrangement, so I'll probably stick with it... at least, for a while LOL

I pulled out about 1/4 of my pygmy chain sword from my 10gal- amazing how far that stuff goes!!

New plants: _Bacopa caroliniana, Echinodorus africanus, Didiplis diandria_, and _E. tenellus 'narrow'_ were added to the _E. tenellus _and_ E. angustifolius 'vesuvius'_ already in the tank but now moved around. I removed the _Cabomba furcata_; the scale of the leaves just did not go with the new 'scape. 

I'm waiting on Photobucket to finish uploading ATM, so I'll post pics as soon as that's done.


----------



## deleted_user_16

wooohooo, wow, I hope that this tank will be as good as I hoped!!! (Don't worry, with you, i'm sure it will be)


----------



## Ozymandias

post pics soon lauralee.


----------



## James From Cali

*biting nails...clear coat is officially ruined.....anticipating pictures*

LOL


----------



## lauraleellbp

OK so here's some pics. Keep in mind the green tint to the water is from the actinic blue bulbs and the yellow tannins in the water from the driftwood :icon_roll 

Clown loach and Tiger barb on the move (AKA my camera sucks LOL)









Crappy shot this time of one of my Cories (C. trilineatus)









Two of the 5 new _Echinodorus africanus_ and an _E. angustifolius 'vesuvius'_ (I have about 6-7 tiny 'vesuvius' spread around the driftwood)









The smaller Clown loach and blurry fat Tiger barb









_Didiplis diandra_ and a female Cherry barb









My 'helper,' watching a Clown loach









New driftwood arrangement and Cherry barb blurs









Right side of the tank

















Left side of the tank (with Clown loaches, Tiger barb, and 2 Cory cats)









FTS









Angle


----------



## jelisoner

photobucket must be running real slow tonight :tongue:


----------



## James From Cali

Its been running slow for me for such a long time now. weird. Looking really good.


----------



## jelisoner

and you post it right when i say that

i like this wood arrangement way better too looking good


----------



## James From Cali

Lol, its good timing


----------



## deleted_user_16

hey lauraleellbp, what are you going to do with the left side? It is kind of empty.


----------



## lauraleellbp

Thanks guys. I'm hoping once I get my new filter with some AC in it the water will clear up.

Fish, the left side will stay empty, it's a "river"

Only plants still needed now are _Echinodorus angustifolius_ (should be here next week) and I still need to get a nice _E. 'Kleiner bar'_ that I'll now have to figure out where to place...

Tomorrow I'll be getting my 20gal QT tank.


----------



## deleted_user_16

cool, great, thanks!!!!


----------



## Digital

Looks like a good start. I'd add some nice rocks in there and if you're planning to add amazon swords, get rid of the loaches. I've noticed that they like to endulge in broad leafed plants like the swords. They eat holes in the leaves. Which isn't good.

Get some color in there, as far as the plants go too! I only have 40watts over my 90 and my amazon sword is doing well. Over the last year I've had about 10-12 plantlets.


----------



## eyebeatbadgers

I like the new plant species! How's that back feeling after planting all those little guys?

I'm not such a big fan of the driftwood, looks contrived to me. Kind of like how I build a campfire. I liked the first way better, but it's not my tank 

Hope you're having fun with that monster tank!


----------



## SeaSerpant

i like the new placement of the wood alot better.


----------



## Ozymandias

i really like the new drift wood araingment it much better s


----------



## lauraleellbp

Thanks guys. I'm not 100% sold on this driftwood arrangement, but I think/hope once the plants grow over the top of it (espcially the _E. africanus_ and the _E. angustifolius_) it won't look quite so "cut off" at the top? I wanted a nice big "cave" in the middle for the loaches, and they seem to love it!  

Badgers- Actually with nice long tweezers (13" I think) planting all that pygmy chain sword didn't require bending at all... just tons of patience! I can't *imagine* planting HC or MM, though...

IC3D- there aren't any rocks in there other than the gravel on the far left- and the loaches do like digging through that. So far they've left the rest of the substrate alone (crossed fingers). Also, no broad-leafed swords are going in there other than an _E._ '_Kleiner bar'_- no Amazons at all. _E. africanus_ is more similar to an _E. uruguayensis, _so the leaves are more long than broad. The reds will come in with the swords. Besides the _E. 'Kleiner bar'_ and some coppery Indian swords, the new leaves on _E. africanus_ are supposed to come in pink. I think the Clowns will leave all those alone. They're pretty well fed and so far totally ignore the plants? Are you sure your Clowns weren't eating snails off of the leaves and got some plant by accident?


----------



## lauraleellbp

*Thurs 4/17/08 Updates*

Added 6 Amano shrimp to the tank. 90gal of tank and they decided to squabble over a 6x1" strip of dirt underneath a branch LOL I love shrimp!

Bought an AquaClear 110 HOB. DOESNT FIT BETWEEN THE TANK AND THE WALL!!!  Soooo the tank will have to be (mostly) drained in order to be moved about 2" away from the wall... *sigh* I'm strongly leaning towards popping the screen out of the window and running a siphon outside. Silver lining is that this should help more with the tannins. Hard to believe after 4 weeks soaking in hot water they're still leeching like they are!

I bought a QT tank today. First I picked up a used iron stand for $17. Then I went and picked up the tank. Turns out what was supposed to be a 20gal tank is a 30gal tank!! LOL So the new tank is 4" too long for the stand. *sigh* Can't really complain though, at $20 for a 30gal tank with all the equipment! Gotta love Craigslist...

Actually, it's all OK b/c now I might buy a double stand to keep the 30gal set up after I'm done stocking my 90gal, and put my 10gal RCS colony underneath... which will put me with a 10gal, 30gal, 46gal, and a 90gal running. That only leaves me needing to set back up my 5.5gal with a fancy betta... can we say MTS?!?


----------



## Buck

Sorry Laura but you lost me with the wood...

I think the "river" would look more natural with a random scattering of those branches throughout the bottom of the tank keeping it low profile. That pile just dont look right. It looks upside down... :redface:


----------



## lauraleellbp

I hear what you're saying.

I was going for a "stump" look. My brother doesn't like it either LOL

I'd have more options with the wood if I went out and got some twist ties...

I so don't want to replant this thing... but I might do it again since I have to drain the tank anyways to move it out more from the wall...:icon_eek: 

La de da de dum...


----------



## lauraleellbp

*Fri. 4/19/08*

Working on the 10gal RCS colony today. Tank needs a good cleaning and rescape after pulling all that pygmy chain sword out. My 'helper' decided he likes the taste of _Ludwigia repens_- he ate the beautiful stems I had in there from Orlando, and the remains were all dried out by the time I found them!!! I'd pulled out the rest of the plants and had them in a bucket beside the tank waiting on a chance to do the rescape, and Osiris decided to go fishing for aquatic plants  Just call him WaterGarfield!


----------



## lauraleellbp

*Wed. 4/23/08*

OK so I'll try to steal the digital camera for some updated pics later tonight.

Mostly drained and refilled the tank today to move it further from the wall and make room for the new AquaClear 110. I'd almost forgotten what the tank looked like w/out all those tannins! Had to put the AC on the lowest setting and turn the XP2 down as well; with as much open space in the tank it was quite a vortex and the fish were NOT happy LOL Hopefully with the carbon in the AC the tannins will stay down to a minimum.

Didn't see a single RCS during the tank drain. I believe the Clown loaches and/or barbs have eaten them all. I see the Cherry barbs "hunting" through the driftwood all the time. I did see all the Amanos though- they had a great time playing in the current while I was refilling the tank. I also found one dead Amano on the floor today when I came in  I'll have to put the top on the tank now (I've been leaving it off till now b/c I've been IN the tank so much).

Got some _Echinodorus angustifolius_ and _Bacopa pantanal_ in today. I'm going to move the _Didiplis diandria_ over in front of the _Bacopa caroliniana _and replace the _B. pantanal_ where the _D. diandria_ is currently. I really like the fine leaves of the pantanal and hope it's not too delicate to hold up to the loaches? The _E. angustifolius_ is shorter than the _E. tenellus_ ATM but hopefully it won't take too long to grow out.

The clown loaches have been rooting around in the substrate and pull up a few of the _E. tenellus 'narrow'_ every day. Hopefully as they take root more this won't be as much of a problem? 

I'm seeing new growth on the _Bacopa caroliniana_ as well as the _E. tenellus_, and only minimal algae on the tank walls so far. I didn't move the driftwood- and I might not still. I think with the plants growing up tall around it I still might really like it as is. I do need to get the WonderGro tabs going soon; I haven't used them yet till I was sure I like the plants where they are.


----------



## James From Cali

I never had problems with Amanos jumping. I been having problems with plants getting uproted in a chichlid tank. The been acting weird with it. The more rooted ones dont seem to come up though. Cant wait for some of these pics, I think I like the wood in there the way it is and the plants should cover it up nicely.


----------



## lauraleellbp

OK so updated pics. I decided to leave the D. diandria where it was, and planted the B. pantanal in front of the B. caroliniana for now...

_Echinodorus angustifolius 'vesuvius_,' _E. africanus_, an Amano shrimp and a cherry barb









Best buddies









Top of driftwood with a cherry barb. The driftwood is slowly moving slightly apart as time passes and I think it looks more natural...









_E. tenellus 'narrow'_ carpet, the new _Bacopa pantanal_, _B. caroliniana_ in the back









_Didiplis diandria_ and the new _E. angustifolius_. I can hardly wait for it to grow up and start trailing along the surface!!



























Soooo the only plants missing now are the red swords; E. 'Kleiner bar' and Indian red swords! I've also decided I'm going to line the "river" with Hydrocoytle. Almost done planting- Woohooo!


----------



## James From Cali

Looking really nice LauraLee


----------



## lauraleellbp

Thanks James!  

Next project will be getting the 29gal Quarantine tank up and running so I can start stocking. :thumbsup: Going to take a few weeks to build back up the budget for it...


----------



## James From Cali

lol...been there, still there xD. You must be having fun budgeting it all out. Luckily its low light/low tech.


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## Ozymandias

ya i can't wait to see how this grows in and fully stocked.


----------



## fshfanatic

Sweet work.. Only thing I would change is the location of the spray bar. I have mine on the left side panel pushing it across the tank from left to right instead of from front to back. Helps push the suspended particulate matter to the intake.


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## SeaSerpant

great. i like how the clowns group.


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## starsunmoon

O wow, I have just read this entire thing !! wow, !! I have a 90 sitting in limbo' LOL< I have no idea what I want to do , I was thinking of a river' and your idea is totally diff then my thoughts, but so far, WOW< great tank !! I love the stup' part of the look of the wood, I think when it all fills in it will be sooo awsome !! I still have to buy, or build a stns and canopy,.lights, and everything else  LOL< yes it will be awile b4 I start my journal, I do have 10 other tanks I could post thow, just havent done so yet . ...... well I will be reading and so far your doing great !! I wouldent have put the tiger barb or the loaches with the rcs, but live and learn, they had some expesive snacks, sorry bout that ' ,. if your ever ready for more in a diff tank, lemme know, I have juvis for sale now !! anyway will keep watching !


----------



## lauraleellbp

James- Let me run down my expenses so far (typical woman- I'm proud of my comparison shopping- it's about how much I SAVED, not how much I spent ROFL:

90gal tank and glass canopy (used) $125
Stand (new from Dr.F&S) $150
216 watt 48" Solar T5HO light fixture (new off Ebay) $175
175lb mixed substrate (Fluorite, Colorquartz, gravel) $175
Driftwood (Manzanita from the S&S) $40
AquaClear 110 (new from LFS) $70
Rena XP2 and Hydor 300watt inline heater (used- ReefCentral) $120
Spent so far on plants (primarily from the S&S) approx. $100

Only new livestock, 6 Amano shrimp = $12; the rest I already owned.

Ozy- me either!  

fsh- thanks! I actually am pretty limited with my filter placement due to the AquaClear HOB plus the length/reach of the tubing for the XP2 since it was used. That being said, between the two there's actually a really good circular current running across the top of the tank, down the front, and sweeping up stuff from the bottom back to the intakes; I think it's working pretty well?

Sea- yeah, the Tiger barb was pretty pathetic looking till I put the clown loaches in the 90gal with him; they've all grown up schooling together since I got them all within a year of each other more than 7 years ago... I wasn't planning on putting the barb in this tank but I guess I'll let this tank be his "Old Fish Home" as it were...

Star- thanks, and I look forward to seeing your journal when you decide you're ready to work on that 90! I will be wanting more RCS once I set back up my 10gal again...


----------



## rekles75

Been keeping up with your journals for a couple of months now. It is really looking great, Glad to see it all starting to come together.

So I guess you didnt win the marathon- prize for the longest journal thread ever with still not a drop of water in the tank!!!!:icon_lol:


----------



## deMastro

Hi, very nice tank!

But i think it is too small for the tigers because they grow up to 35cm long...:icon_roll


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## sea-horsea

new pix??


----------



## lauraleellbp

Rek, thanks- getting this far had definitely been a long time coming! LOL

DeM- I hope to have convinced my hubby to build a pond long before the loaches outgrow this tank. I've had the spot picked and some intial sketches done since before we built this house,  

Sea- nothing's changed! LOL


----------



## lauraleellbp

Nothing to do with my tank, but here's the sweet girl that showed up skin and bones in our backyard 2 weeks ago; she went to the vet on Monday and actually is in pretty good health considering- fleas, ticks, and hookworms but nothing that isn't being pretty easily taken care of! She's at least mostly if not a purebred Rhodesian Ridgeback. I was really surprised she isn't microchipped or fixed (yet)?










She wouldn't let us get anywhere near her for the first week (she's been abused for sure) so we figured Animal Control wouldn't be able to catch her anyways (we're in such a rural area she would have taken off back into the woods). Me being me, I can't allow a domesticated animal to starve, so of course we started feeding her, and last weekend she finally decided that I was OK and came up to be petted and have her belly rubbed... took her a little longer to warm up to my hubby but now she thinks she's a lap dog! LOL

She loves her crate:


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## deleted_user_16

aw, so cute!!!! I bet she loves it there!!!


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## Ozymandias

soo cute :tongue:


----------



## Wingsdlc

> She loves her crate:


 I wish my dog felt the same way about her crate!!!


----------



## lauraleellbp

Yeah our Beagle mostly sulks about going her crate (she's quite the character and the Queen Bee of the house), so it's quite a relief that the big dog doesn't have to be shoved in LOL I posted more pics in the Lounge  I'm a little excited about her, might even be broken-hearted if owners show up to claim her? She's busy prancing all around the house carrying toys back and forth from my office to the bedroom ATM


----------



## ColeMan

lauraleellbp said:


> James- Let me run down my expenses so far
> 
> 90gal tank and glass canopy (used) $125
> Stand (new from Dr.F&S) $150
> 216 watt 48" Solar T5HO light fixture (new off Ebay) $175
> 175lb mixed substrate (Fluorite, Colorquartz, gravel) $175
> Driftwood (Manzanita from the S&S) $40
> AquaClear 110 (new from LFS) $70
> Rena XP2 and Hydor 300watt inline heater (used- ReefCentral) $120
> Spent so far on plants (primarily from the S&S) approx. $100
> 
> Only new livestock, 6 Amano shrimp = $12; the rest I already owned.


If I were to do this I think I'd pass out...I've split my receipts into two different files so I don't have to look at them all at once! You really saved some serious cash, you smart lady shopper you!


----------



## lauraleellbp

Shopping's half the fun! :fish:


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## SeaSerpant

She's? so cute. alot better looking than my familys dogs.


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## lauraleellbp

Sea- checked out the pics in the Lounge; I love the hair on Malteses- I think your family's dogs are beautiful! And what faces... hehehe

Actual tank update for *Sat. 4/26/08*

For the most part, the plants and fish are all doing very well. The RCS are definitely all gone; C'est la vie? 

It's not looking good though for the Didiplis diandria; the stems keep rotting off in the substrate instead of rooting and I'm not seeing any new growth. I'm thinking they truly do need a higher tech tank than mine. If they don't make it I will replace them with regular Stargrass. Too bad b/c I really liked the looks of the Didiplis?

Oh I forgot about the Moss issue; turns out the moss that was supposed to be Willow moss when arrived was in fact Java moss... so it's floating around in my 46gal clogging up my filter till I figure out what I want to do with it. I'll get around to getting some real Willow moss for the tank sometime soon...

I still need to put in my root tabs. I may get motivated and get that done tonight... 

The only other issue is a few strands of the Bacopa pantanal just refuse to stay planted. Those stems are just so slender that they won't stay down, fish swimming by knock them out, and they get sucked into the filter intakes  Most of it is doing great, however. I can't tell if it's already growing or just straightening up to reach towards the light?


----------



## lescarpentier

LL

Do you have one of these? This makes the job of plunging the root tabs into the substrate very simple.It also has an attachment to prune the leaves off of your plants.It is also good for picking out snails,dead fish,and loose leaves.

http://www.bigalsonline.com/StoreCa...ery=toms+aquatic+gardener&queryType=0&offset=


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## lauraleellbp

No, I don't have a fancy one like that, a pair of long tweezers with an angled tip that I think will work?

I got this really nifty planting tool kit off of Ebay a while back for about $30 shipped.


----------



## lescarpentier

That is a nice kit that you have,and I plan to get one.
What I like about mine is that I don't have to get wet every time that I do something to my aquarium.I like to keep my hands out of the water as much as possible.I also use it to place the algae tabs exactly where I want them.I could go on and on,but you get the point.It is my most useful aquarium tool.roud:


----------



## lauraleellbp

I know what you mean, I do get rather pruny these days LOL With my tank depth even those don't keep me completely out of the water, though- they just let me reach the back of the tank without needing to hold my breath and go swimming :icon_mrgr I have been procrastinating putting down the root tabs for that reason though (gotta go change and everything...)


----------



## lescarpentier

lauraleellbp said:


> With my tank depth even those don't keep me completely out of the water, though- they just let me reach the back of the tank without needing to hold my breath and go swimming :icon_mrgr


I have the 27" model,and my tank is 24".What is the depth of yours :icon_ques


----------



## lauraleellbp

It's 24"H x 18"W and I'm 5'4" so it's a reach to the back bottom of the tank for me, can't do it without getting most of my arm wet :icon_mrgr


----------



## lauraleellbp

*Mon 4/28/08*

Update.

The clown loaches are definitely hard on the tank. They've finally started their digging, and the E. tenellus 'narrow' are suffering; some get uprooted and others get buried  The taller ones don't get much traffic so they seem to be OK. A few of the 'vesuvius' are suffering- I think the clowns are sleeping on them at night? I will probably move them tomorrow to a different spot. 

I may end up putting the loaches back into the 46gal as soon as I can get some more fish to keep up the bioload in this tank. Looks like some things are coming through that mean I really may get my pond this summer after all? I think they'd love it outside- and I bet their coloration would really brighten like crazy in the sunlight  

The Didiplis diandria are definitely faring poorly. None are taking root, and they rot at the base, then float up and get stuck in the filters. At first it was just a few, but today looking carefully at them none of them are doing well. I'm most likely going to try stargrass in that spot.

The rest of the plants seem to be doing pretty well! Still haven't gotten busy with those fert tabs... I need to get on the stick soon though!


----------



## lauraleellbp

*Wed. 4/30/08 update*

Made my minor moving around adjustments today. Went to remove all the Didiplis and got a happy surprise- turns out there are about 3 or 4 stems that not only have rooted, but are budding little tiny branches with new leaves!  So I left them where they were, removed the stems that were doing poorly, and finally put root tabs underneath all the major plants. 

I put whole Wonder Gro tabs underneath all of the big swords, and half or quarter tabs underneath all the rest of the plants, except the E. tenellus 'narrow.' I also saw a few new leaves on the E. africanus, and I'm very happy about that. I haven't seen any new leaves on the 'vesuvius' so far though? Hopefully the root tabs will make a difference.

I'm surprised that the Bacopa 'pantanal' is already almost as tall as the B. caroliniana!  I can't tell how much is a result of the plants stems straightening towards the light vs. real growth, however?

I'm not quite sure ATM if I'm going to sell the majority of the 'narrow' I still have left in my 10gal or go ahead and plant it in this tank to really give the carpet a head start? I probably have twice as many plants still left in the 10 as are currently in the 90gal...


----------



## SeaSerpant

Any pics of your aquarium/tank?


----------



## lauraleellbp

Ok give me a few min to upload... not much has changed though?


----------



## lauraleellbp

Ok sideshots (you can see the wood fungus in this first pic):



















Around to the front:



















The fish love hanging out in the "river" which I guess is kind of appropriate. I'm probably going to rearrange the river some; have the grass extend most of the way across the back of the tank and have the "river" just be in the corner...









And a FTS










It's been a week since the water change, so the tannins are out in force again as you can see. I'm going to end up switching to Prime and throw some Purigen in the XP2 before too much longer... plus get some Giesemann bulbs for the light fixture.


----------



## ikuzo

i like the grassy feel around the wood. i might make a scape like this someday.


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## lauraleellbp

Thanks, Ikuzo- that's a big compliment  

Last update before I head to GA for a long weekend camping with my family-

I hit Petsmart today and decided to try an 18k Hagen "Power-Glo" bulb out. Has peaks in blue, green, and orange, and some red as well. I swapped out one of the actinics. It DEFINITELY made an improvement; the top of the tank doesn't look so cloudy and the oranges in the Tiger barb and clown loaches are finally coming through more. 

I'm still getting a Geisemann 6k to replace one of the 10k bulbs though. This will leave me with a 10k, and actinic, one 18k and a 6k- I think I'm going to like that balance! Somewhere between 108-162 watts of individually reflected T5HO for the plants...

I'm thinking I may need to do my first trim when I get back? The Bacopa caroliniana has grown 2-3" since it was planted, and the B. 'pantanal' is already taller than I want it to stay. Time to start trying to make these plants into "bushes" :thumbsup: 

I also added a good quantity of Salvinia that came in today from Python; I think the hatchets-to-be will love it!


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## @[email protected]

nice wood (why is everyones wood so much better then mine!?), its full of knots and its nice an long. my only suggestion is to put some moss or something where the wood connect on the top to make it look less like a campfire in a flood (sorry its just what jumped into my head and i couldnt think of a nicer way to put it).


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## Jace

I'd also like to see more elevation changes in the substrate. Thats my :twocents:


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## fshfanatic

Looking good!


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## lauraleellbp

Marko- yes, Willow moss is going to go on the driftwood one of these days...

Jace- the substrate actually is very sloped; it's about 5" deep on the right side of the tank and 2" on the left side. The pics don't show it very well, however. There's also a slight front-to-back slope.

Thanks fsh  

*Mon. 5/5/08 Update*

Well something went awry with my light timer settings while I was gone (according to my hubby they were on too much) and I came home to lots of brown algae.  Also the fish seem to have uprooted most of the Bacopa 'pantanal' and several of the E. africanus as well *sigh*

So tomorrow I'll do a good PWC, clean some algae, and replanting. On the bright side, there are some new leaves finally coming out of a few of the E. tenellus 'narrow'.

Found an Amano molt. I never can see most of my Amanos, so I really hope the fish aren't finding and eating them after molting?


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## TheCryptKeeper

I like the tank setup. I can't wait to see how it grows in. good job


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## lauraleellbp

*Tues. 5/13/08*

Got my specimen E. 'Kleiner bar' from god91234- it's huge and looks awesome!

Was a major ordeal planting it though... in the process I lost both of my clown loaches and the tiger barb :icon_cry: :icon_cry: :icon_cry: 

I'm still not sure why it happened but it's got to be related to the 50% PWC.

I tested my parameters and everything still looks great (0ppm ammonia and nitrIte, 5ppm nitrAte, 7.0 - 7.2 pH, I still need to get hardness test kits but that really shouldn't be an issue b/c I'm still using the same water I started with and I've maintained regular PWC 25 - 50% since the tank startup.)

Temperature is a slight possibility, since I don't have a thermometer on this tank yet (keep forgetting to buy one), but I did the old "hand test" and the waters felt good. The tank is at room temp and the water came from our well on a sunny day...

All the rest of the livestock look great- it was just those three, which is also odd. I'm wondering if I disturbed some hydrogen sulfide when planting the sword (I did have to move around a ton of substrate b/c the thing is so big), but would that really have had time to build up this quickly?

Would having well water high in sulfur content promote the formation of hydrogen sulfide pockets??

I'm really leaning towards it's got something to do with my green water.

Up till now I've been thinking the green water is tannins from the driftwood and peat. However, I put the leftover Manzanita wood in my 46gal and that tank is staying crystal clear... which leaves the peat, but I only used a very small amount... so IDK what's going on? 

The plan I've come up with so far is to keep doing PWC, 25% every other day now, and I'm going to switch this tank to Prime and add some Purigen to the XP2. There's AC in the AquaClear but it doesn't seem to be doing anything. I may also buy a media bag and replace that carbon with new... I think I can use all the toxin absorbtion I can get ATM...

I had to do some moving around to make room for the sword, and I didn't get to finish replanting last night, so that's on the agenda for tonight. I'll also try to take and upload some pics afterwards.


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## rasetsu

lauraleellbp said:


> *Tues. 5/13/08*
> 
> Got my specimen E. 'Kleiner bar' from god91234- it's huge and looks awesome!
> 
> Was a major ordeal planting it though... in the process I lost both of my clown loaches and the tiger barb :icon_cry: :icon_cry: :icon_cry:
> 
> I'm still not sure why it happened but it's got to be related to the 50% PWC.


 
Awww....I'm sorry to hear that  Those are hardy fish too and clown loaches are lots of fun. Could be something in the new water that the fish did not adjust to.


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## lescarpentier

lauraleellbp said:


> The plan I've come up with so far is to keep doing PWC, 25% every other day now, and I'm going to switch this tank to Prime and add some Purigen to the XP2. There's AC in the AquaClear but it doesn't seem to be doing anything. I may also buy a media bag and replace that carbon with new... I think I can use all the toxin absorbtion I can get ATM..


Are these the only filters that you have?


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## eyebeatbadgers

I'd really doubt you'd find H2S in a tank as new as yours. The roots growing in the substrate should oxidize and and keep the H2S at bay.

The green water conditions you are getting are triggered by ammonia presence. I've fought with it in the past, and overcame it with a blackout, and proper filtration. I'm using an XP2 on my 29 gallon tank now, and have not had green water since.

Sorry to hear about your barb and loaches. I know you were attached to those fish after having them so long.


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## rekles75

Soooo Sorry to hear about your Barb and loaches. I can hardly remember too many posts where you did not mention them so I know you were attached to them. 

Will this change your plans for the pond outdoors?


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## lauraleellbp

Yes, the XP2 and AquaCear 110 are the only filters on this tank. I have to keep both of them turned on the lowest setting to avoid the tank being a swirling vortex... LOL

No, I'm still working on my hubby for that pond... I've wanted one since before we built this house, and we're already making some landscaping plans to implement once the rainy season kicks in.

The area where I planted the sword actually didn't have many other plants (a few E. tenellus 'narrow'), I only had to move plants around b/c this sword is so large the leaves were shading some of the other plants. I didn't think this would be enough time for H2S to buildup, but perhaps if there's lots of sulphur in the water column this could make a difference???  (grasping at straws here)

My ammonia test kit is only a few months old- and it's stayed steady at 0ppm this whole time; perhaps the issue is ammonium not ammonia? I suppose I'll need to read up on API and see if ammonium shows up with their tests...

The green water is not algae. The water is actually yellow when the tank lights are off, but shows green b/c of the blue actinic bulb I'm running reflecting off the water, plus the light shining through the floating salvinia. 

I thought it was mostly from tannins, but now I"m thinking sulphur. We're in a drought, they just closed the dam and drained our canal (prolly to keep the water levels higher in Lake Okechobee to help fight the fires up there), so I'm really thinking something changed with our well water (something that doesn't show up in my current tests) that mixed with something in this tank. 

It's not JUST the well water, though, b/c I did a test 25% PWC on my 46gal today and all of those fish are perfectly fine and the water remains crystal clear...

This is frustrating!

I really hope the Purigen will make a difference... till now the green (yellow) water was just aesthetically annoying, but now I'm actually concerned about it.


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## lauraleellbp

*Fri. 5/16/08*

Still haven't gotten around to taking any pics. I will sometime this weekend, though.

I've given up on the Salvinia. No matter what setting I have the filters on or how I play with the water level of the tank, the AquaClear pushes it down below the surface and it blows all over the tank. Keeps completely clogging both filter intakes and is snagged in all the plants and driftwood... so it's got to go tomorrow. Haven't decided what I want to try in its place- maybe Pistia?

The Bacopa caroliniana is doing fantastic; it's doubled in size since I added it to the tank, I think it grows about an inch a week. I've debated trimming and replanting it, but I'm leaning towards just getting more instead. I really like having some height at the back of the tank.

I wish the B. 'pantanal' were doing well, but it's lost most of its lower leaves and looks pretty scraggly. I'm hoping that it was just from the clown loaches uprooting it constantly and since they're now gone ( ) maybe it's got a chance? 

I finally pulled the Didiplis diandria. Started getting some algae and it just wasn't doing anything. I'll be putting some stargrass in its place.

I'm starting to wonder if my E. angustifolius may really be E. tenellus? It's growing new leaves, but they are not looking like they're growing very tall, instead they're growing outward and look identical to my regular E. tenellus.... I may be on the lookout for an E. angustifolius mother plant to give that back corner a jump-start and help balance out the tank.

I wasn't sure that my E. tenellus 'narrow' had been doing anything... but was very happy to find lots of new runners on the plants I relocated to plant the big sword.

The sword puts out quite a bit of shade... I'm not sure what to try and grow underneath it that would do OK?

In addition to the plants already mentioned, I still plan to add some Indian red swords and hydrocoytle. I also think I'm going to replace the gravel just in the back left corner with a bag of black Fluorite to extend the plantscape, and just leave the front corner bare.

I emailed API to see if their ammonia kits register ammonium. I do want to get to the bottom of this yellow water issue.


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## god91234

still waiting on those pics ::taps feet:: =) i want to see how the sword is doing. that sword was huge shaded like 1/2 my tank tried to grow HM around it failed i got ET 'Pink' to grow but was always green not pink under it ...but pink everywhere else .. i miss the sword but nice to have ALLOT more room.


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## lauraleellbp

OK OK- here goes... I just snapped a few shots before I clean out the salvinia and do a water change, so you can see how murky the water is. I wish it WERE GW, b/c that I could figure out how to address... *sigh* Sorry about all the reflections, I normally take pics at night to avoid them.

This first shot shows the true color of the water, the rest of the shots look green b/c of the plant reflection.










This is the Salvinia being blown all over the tank, and stuck in the E. tenellus 


















Here's the new sword









And a FT shot:









Sooo... I now have some stargrass, Hydrocoytle, a few more Bacopa stems, and another E. angustifolius plant on the way next week from macclellan :thumbsup: 

I've got a WTB ad posted in the S&S for the remainder of my plants... I'm going to give Pistia a try this time.

I'll post some more shots later after I've done a cleanup so you can see the difference.


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## Wingsdlc

> E. angustifolius plant on the way next week from macclellan


 I guess we are playing pass the plant! macclellan got it from me and I got it from jaidxl.


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## lauraleellbp

Wingsdlc said:


> I guess we are playing pass the plant! macclellan got it from me and I got it from jaidxl.


That's pretty funny! Went all the way around the US just to come right back where it started- next time Jaide should skip all the middle men and give it straight to me :hihi:

Were you the one who snagged that Red Rubin of his I was looking at too? Ya owe me!! JK


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## waterfaller1

I like the e. vesuvius on the first page...is it hard to find?


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## Justbeginningfish

are you running purigen in your filter, when mine was stuck on murky for weeks no matter what I did the purigen in conjunction with a boatload of fine filter floss cleared it right up. I love the stuff!


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## lauraleellbp

Carole- you'll see it occasionally in the S&S. I got mine from AaronT.

JBF- I'm actually working on an order from DrF&S now... Purigen and a stand for the 29gal QT tank are on there for sure, trying to prioritize the rest of the order to fit in my budget  I love shopping!


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## Justbeginningfish

I actually used an entire jars worth on my ten gallon for about a week to clear it up, then I went to about a quarter of that amount and now have a jars worth running on the big tank. 

I managed to cloud up the water something fierce yesterday planting and moving stuff around so I am keeping my fingers crossed I didnt cause an algae bloom!


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## Buck

Lookin good Laura. When the plants grow in and you get that water cleared its going to be a real nice tank. The wood is growing on me now, it looks much better with the plants around it.


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## lauraleellbp

Thanks Buck  I think once the E. vesuvius and the E. africanus have grown and filled in more that will also make a big difference. I'm also considering adding some L. repens stems in there for some red. The new leaves on the E. africanus also come in red (well, pinkish-green in my case), but so far they're so small ya can't see them LOL

JBF- I just ordered the Purigen so it should be in later this week. :thumbsup: 

I also finally got a stand for the 29gal QT tank, and hooked up the AquaClear 50 to my 46gal last week to get it cycling... so I may place my first fish order in about 2 weeks! Woohooo! :thumbsup:

Got lots of new plants that should be in later this week... hopefully adding some stems will help keep the algae better in check.

I think I'm prolly going to get some red root floater for the tank to replace the Salvinia. Been debating back and forth between that, Amazon frogbit, or Pistia, and I think the Red root floater looks the best and will prolly work best.


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## lauraleellbp

*Wed 5/22/08*

OK so I got a ton of plants in today from Macclellan and customdrumfinishes; a few more stems of B. caroliniana, a ton of Ludwigia repens, some E. angustifolius mother plants, and stargrass are all what went in this tank  

So here's a few shots, pardon the cloudiness from the air bubbles floating around- I drained the tank down to a few inches of water for the replanting and also to make it so I could see through the LOVELY green water that sprung up as soon as I took out the Salvinia :icon_eek: 

The right side of the tank is planted pretty much planted now, though I may move the Ludwigia back and pull the E. 'vesuvius' in front, depending on how it all grows in:










FTS from angle:










Straight on










One more bag of Fluorite black should come in tomorrow, and then I'm also going to plant the Hydrocoytle (that's still floating in the pic) all around the back of the tank and around the sword; it will outline the "river" that will be left just in the front left corner.

And this is the reason I had to drain the tank, to see to plant!!! Pea soup, anyone?


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## macclellan

I hope you can get that green water sorted. enjoy the plants & good luck!



Wingsdlc said:


> I guess we are playing pass the plant! macclellan got it from me and I got it from jaidxl.


You sent more than I needed, so I included freebies with the plants I sold Laura.


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## lauraleellbp

OMG you sent me a TON of plants! I'm saving the rest for my other tanks, though... I'm totally redoing the 10gal, I'll be setting up the 29gal as a QT tank this weekend, and then I'm going to redo my 46gal... and I'll need all the plants I can get


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## rasetsu

A UV sterilizer would clear that up in 24 hours.


----------



## lauraleellbp

Thanks for the suggestion, but I'm not too fond of UV sterilizers, I usually prefer to tackle issues other ways.

The green water came from removing all the Salvinia. I plan on adding some Red root floater to the tank instead.

I keep playing around with my midground in my head... I'm thinking the Ludwigia needs to be further back in the tank. I may add some Lobelia cardinalis in its place?

I'm also about to give up on the B. 'pantanal' and move it all over to my 10gal where it will stay closer to the light. I'm thinking about moving the E. 'vesuvius' there where it will be more visible; it's such a lovely plant!


----------



## lauraleellbp

*Mon. 5/26/08*

OK so it's been a busy weekend.

I'm in the process of taking down my 10gal and putting up the 29gal that will serve as a QT tank till I get the 90gal stocked. So that's one project.

I also rescaped the 90gal.

I pulled out about 2/3 of the black gravel, replaced with black Fluorite, and replanted the big sword into the far corner where it won't shade as many plants. The L. repens wasn't doing so hot in the shadow of the driftwood, so I moved it over next to the sword.

I pulled up the B. 'pantanal' and moved it to a different tank- apparently it needs to be closer to the light to do well. Was getting too leggy. I moved all the E. 'vesuvius' in its place. I planted all the Hydrocoytle around the driftwood, I really like the look and hope it does well there? I then filled in all the remaining area with the last of the E. tenellus 'narrow' from the 10gal.

I also put down some more Wonder Gro fert tabs. I can tell a dramatic difference with the E. tenellus that are over fert tabs versus those that are not!! 

E. tenellus WITH WonderGro:









E. tenellus without:









I'm very happy that the E. angustifolius is putting out runners! :fish: 









Right side of the tank:









Left side:









I like this shot:









And the best FTS I can get ATM with my office in total disarray LOL


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## deleted_user_16

lookin great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## mistergreen

looks like a good start.. It'll looks great when the plants have grown out more..

The pile of driftwood bothers me though.. It looks too 'arranged' like a bon pile. Maybe a big rock could be a center focus and the woods can play a supporting role.

And I would give UV a try unless you plan to do a massive water change everyday. Or turn off the lights for a long period of time.


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## Ozymandias

man thats coming along nicely


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## ascensive

i am happy to see someone working on a low maintenance tank of this size. i am looking to set up a couple as well. are you going about this all your own way, or are you using the good and bad techniques of previous efforts posted online to help you?


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## lauraleellbp

Thanks guys. Ascensive- I've definitely learned tons from the forums I participate in, plus I'm also trying some new things... so a little innovation, a little of my own experience, and a little piggybacking on others' experiences have all gone into this tank. :biggrin: 

No update, nothing has changed other than the Green Water is back. We were without power for a few days due to brushfires, we left for the weekend, and I left a window open since the tank would have been without light. I'm thinking about throwing a daphnia culture in there- anyone have a good source?

The fire was 800 acres, 100 homes were evacuated, the fire came within 1 mile of our house, but other than losing phone, internet, electricity, etc we weren't affected directly b/c the winds were blowing the other direction. Only 3 houses were destroyed and only 7 suffered major damage. No one was seriously injured- majority of issues were respiratory from the smoke. A complete miracle. The areas that were burned look like something from a sci-fi movie though; they were all charred and smoking when we drove around Saturday. We've been getting hard afternoon rains, the rainy season started early- so that's yet another blessing!


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## roybot73

Wow. Glad to hear you and your house are alright! What a scary situation. Keep those rains a-comin'!!!

Looking forward to an update!


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## lauraleellbp

*Thurs. 6/5/08*

Ordered a daphnia culture. The pea soup is so thick now I can't see the back of the tank. I lost about 1/2 my stargrass- it is on the opposite side of the tank from the window so it probably didn't get any light with the power out and the GW absorbing the light that was coming in the window.

I also placed my first stocking order for this tank! I decided to try BoxLotFish.com since I'm in FL and shipping is only $7. I figured a $30 investment as a "trial" isn't too bad, especially for this number of fish...

8 x Cory Schwartzi () = $10.40
15 x Cory Hastatus VS () = $6.30
15 x Otocinclus Cats Peru () = $8.55
------------------------------------------------------
Sub-Total: $25.25

If these fish arrive quickly, safely, healthy, and acclimate well then I'll also use them to stock all my tetras. It would be amazing to be able to stock this tank all for $100!

All these fish will go into QT for at *least* 2 weeks. An AquaClear 50 has been cycling on my 46gal for about a month now in preparation. Since that tank actually has some algae right now (for the otos), I may move the fish in there to my new 29gal and use the 46gal as the QT tank... There's only a Synod cat and some bloodfin tetras in the 46 ATM. I may even move the bloodfins over to the 90gal- that's another option...

My next purchase will be a new starter RCS colony for the 90gal. Now that there are no loaches or large barbs in this tank they should have a better shot at establishing themselves.


----------



## DennisSingh

lauraleellbp said:


> *Thurs. 6/5/08*
> 
> Ordered a daphnia culture. The pea soup is so thick now I can't see the back of the tank. I lost about 1/2 my stargrass- it is on the opposite side of the tank from the window so it probably didn't get any light with the power out and the GW absorbing the light that was coming in the window.
> 
> I also placed my first stocking order for this tank! I decided to try BoxLotFish.com since I'm in FL and shipping is only $7. I figured a $30 investment as a "trial" isn't too bad, especially for this number of fish...
> 
> 8 x Cory Schwartzi () = $10.40
> 15 x Cory Hastatus VS () = $6.30
> 15 x Otocinclus Cats Peru () = $8.55
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Sub-Total: $25.25
> 
> If these fish arrive quickly, safely, healthy, and acclimate well then I'll also use them to stock all my tetras. It would be amazing to be able to stock this tank all for $100!
> 
> All these fish will go into QT for at *least* 2 weeks. An AquaClear 50 has been cycling on my 46gal for about a month now in preparation. Since that tank actually has some algae right now (for the otos), I may move the fish in there to my new 29gal and use the 46gal as the QT tank... There's only a Synod cat and some bloodfin tetras in the 46 ATM. I may even move the bloodfins over to the 90gal- that's another option...
> 
> My next purchase will be a new starter RCS colony for the 90gal. Now that there are no loaches or large barbs in this tank they should have a better shot at establishing themselves.


Awesome deal u got there on the cories and ottos.


----------



## lauraleellbp

Yup, may end up too good to be true if the acclimation/QT losses are more than 30%... we'll see.

*6/6/08 Update*

Posted an S&S ad for more Stargrass to replace what died, and also for Red root floater. The RRF doesn't seem to be too common, so I may end up ordering that from AquaBotanic. I've actually not ordered too much from them since they're on the opposite side of the US and I'm scared of shipping issues (mostly heat).

The tank is GW city. Not sure if the daphnia were shipped already or will be next week? The RCS from Bandaiban should be shipped out on Monday. I'll need to remove the cherry barbs from the tank at that point so the RCS and daphnia aren't all eaten. 

I'm hoping the sponge prefilters I ordered from Petsmart will arrive before the RCS so I can keep them out of the filters. I'll be getting mostly juvies. The RCS should have at least a month to get established before any tetras will start going in the tank. I think the risk of being eaten by my Clown pleco, Otos, and Cories during that time is minimal. There's also more plants in the tank than there were for my first colony to hide in.

On a bright note, my E. angustifolius is sending out runners like crazy! :thumbsup: I'm hoping that back corner will really start filling in now. There's at least 6 new plantlets started since I put them in.  

My Amanos seem to love the E. Kleiner bar. There's a molt underneath it right now that looks like it was carrying eggs. 

I seriously need to trim and replant the Bacopa, it's within a few inches of the top of the tank already! Unfortunately, the GW is so thick I can barely even see the plants, much less see well enough to trim and replant. 

On the other hand, I don't think my L. repens has taken- from what I can see looks like there's only 3 or 4 stems that haven't melted  I had a feeling that Bacopa was going to be the stem that did the best in my tank- and it looks like my guess is proving correct. That's OK- I really LIKE B. caroliniana :thumbsup: 

The hydrocoytle is doing very well, other than having issues keeping it in the substrate and around the driftwood where it belongs. The AquaClear puts out a good bit of current right on it (making sure there's no dead spots in that corner) and it keeps coming loose and floating around tank.


----------



## lauraleellbp

Just heard back from BoxLotFish, said the fish should be shipped out on Monday :thumbsup: Incidentally, shipping was $12 total (including a $5 box charge), which I still feel is probably much cheaper than gas!


----------



## CobraGuppy

Can't wait till your fish get here!

Any tips on how to make gw? I want some for my 75 gallon tank because my turtle refuses to eat veggies but drinking the gw may help get some algae (plant) in her


----------



## lescarpentier

lauraleellbp said:


> The tank is GW city.


A UV sterilizer would make your tank much more enjoyable for you.
You can always turn it off periodically to see if you have the GW problem corrected.That's what I did,and do.

GL!!


----------



## lauraleellbp

I really really really don't want to do the UV sterilizer thing. I'd rather let this run its course. If the daphnia don't work and it's gotten to the point where I want to add (and be able to see) fish, then I'll just do a blackout.

Cobra- put your tank where it gets lots of sunlight- like a South-facing window. Mine is right next to a South-facing bay window, and even though I keep the blinds down, they're woven wood so if this GW keeps coming back that's what I'm going to chalk it up to...


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## fshfanatic

How about a diatom filter? I had pea soup, day and a half later it was gone, never to return.


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## lauraleellbp

Yup I've looked at those, and that's an option. I'm going to try daphnia first, though. I kinda like the idea of establishing a complete "food chain" in my tank.

I'm not being too proactive about trying to get rid of it. I figure worst comes to worst it will just run its course and be over and done with all on its own.

Unless over time it proves that sunlight really is the issue... but I'll cross that bridge when I get there.


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## lauraleellbp

Here's pics of the fish that should be arriving Tuesday from BoxLotFish:

8x Corydoras Schwartzi (this is my own fish that is currently in the 90gal waiting for his new friends  )









Here's a better pic of C. schwartzi from PlanetCatfish:










15x C. hastatus









and 15x Peruvian Otocinclus. I'm not really sure what species I'll be getting, but I'm guessing it will be O. macrospilus:


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## monkeyruler90

are you still thinking of making this into a discus tank once it clears up?


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## lauraleellbp

I may. But if I do I'll probably wait a year at this point. I want to make sure that the tank is stable and well-established before I go drop $300-400 on discus!


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## James From Cali

What ever you decide to do with this tank as far as fish I think it would be a marvelous New World Tank. Keep the pics coming and GL w/t GW 

Btw monkey ruler clean out your messages


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## Adhlc

Excellent choice on the Schwartzi cories.


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## lauraleellbp

Thanks, James and Adhlc  

I'd actually originally planned to get C. trilineatus, but haven't seen them as available this year for whatever reason? If I find some, I may end up moving the dwarf cories to one of my other tanks... I already have one C. trilineatus in this tank and I'd like to get him/her some same-species companions as well.

*Sun 6/8/08*

Busy day today, getting ready for the arrival of my fish on Tuesday. I totally broke down the 10gal. Holy cow what a mess the unwashed, never-vaccumed, 4-year-old red fluorite was! I rinsed it very well, and put it away- I may use it in the future for another project. I did use some of it to pot a few swords I've had just hanging out in my 46gal. I want to try and keep the swords' roots healthy till I'm ready to give them a permanent home.

I set up the 29gal, bringing over some established gravel and the cycled AquaClear 50 from my 46gal. I'll check the water parameters tomorrow, and if there's no minicycle apparant, I'll move the fish from my 46gal into this tank when the new fish arrive on Tuesday. I decided for sure that I'm going to use the 46gal to QT the new arrivals, since that tank is very well established and has plenty of algae on the sides of the tank for the otos. The algae's actually been going crazy in that tank since I removed all the plastic plants that used to shade it, LOL.

I really like the 29gal. I'm looking forward to the time when I'm done stocking the 90gal and can turn the 29gal into a planted tank, as well. I think I'll probably get either an XP3 or an Eheim 2217 for the 90gal at that point, and bring over the XP2 from the 90gal to the 29...


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## CL

this tank is starting to shape up really nicely, that dw with the hydrocoytle is gonna look great!


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## Ozymandias

sounds like it's coming along nicely, sorry to hear about you not being able to find the C. trilineatus ?(have to be my favorite corry). i would offer to shipp you some from up here but never shipped fish and shipping would be really expensive.


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## lauraleellbp

Thanks for the thought Ozy, but shipping that far would definitely be expensive and hard on the Cories, too. I'm sure that some will come available at some point, my LFS usually carries them, just hasn't recently.

Thanks clwatkins- I didn't even think about putting the hydrocoylte there until after I got it all in from Macclellan (he sent a TON! :thumbsup: ) but I'm really liking the way it looks there, too  

Bad news- looks like both my daphnia and RCS shipments will be delayed due to the heat. I've asked the sellers to see if they can find some cold packs, b/c frankly it's always about 90 here this time of year... so we'll see what happens.

This leaves me debating how much longer I want to put up with the GW, though. I do want to get in there and trim and replant some Bacopa, plus I have some more E. angustifolius and E. tenellus (regular) that came in with some other plants that need to go somewhere before they die... I might end up doing a major drain and refill the tank AGAIN tomorrow, just so I can see to plant _again_!


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## BiscuitSlayer

I know this is a bit weird, but I would be willing to loan you a UV sterilizer if you buy a bulb for it and ship it back. No hurry on shipping it back though. Not sure if it would be worth while or not. Just thought I would offer.

I could probably send a powerhead assembly that would work with it too.


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## lauraleellbp

I really appreciate the offer Biscuit- that's very nice!

I need to be sure that I understand and address the source of the problem, though- so really the *only* way I'll consider using a UV is if I narrow it down to sunlight through the blinds on my window being the source of the problem (b/c I don't have anywhere else in this house I can set up this tank). And, if that's the case, then the GW will just come back, so borrowing yours won't get me anywhere... 

GW is the easiest and most harmless of the algae issues, IMO. I'm much more concerned about understanding what's causing it, so that it doesn't lead to other algae issues, than I am eliminating it. So I'm trying to make changes one thing at a time.

I should also have some Red root floater coming in next week. I really think that adding back some floating plants will make the biggest difference. The GW started as soon as I removed Salvinia from my tank. (I would have kept the Salvinia if I could've kept the durn stuff from clogging my filter intakes!)


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## BiscuitSlayer

Well, to me, it is probably one of two things:

1. New tank syndrome.
2. Amonia spike.

I am kind of leaning towards number one possibly caused by number 2 (at some point in the past). I have a very strong feeling that if you were to wait it out and just let it go through its cycle it will clear eventually. It will clear and run its coarse. Im just not that patient.


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## fshfanatic

I had a tank in front of a window once, horrible problems with algae. I went and got some of that static cling window tint. I didnt have any problems after that.

A quick and easy way to get it ouot of your tank is to get a magnum HOT and run the micron filter with DE, it would rid the tank in a couple days. They are fairly cheap too.

Oh and BTW, I think this little guy is bad ass!


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## lauraleellbp

If the ammonia has spiked at any point, I've never caught it. I'm trying to remember if I checked my parameters right after taking out the Salvinia, and I really don't remember for sure, though?

Other than my drains so I can see to work in the tank, I"m probably just going to just wait it out. I am adding the daphnia and the red root floater (whenever they get here) since I do tend to like natural solutions. I think that those two things plus time are likely to tip the balance. I've never had GW in any of my other tanks...


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## lauraleellbp

fsh- that's an idea. I'll have to let that one bump around in "my little world :icon_evil ) for a while :icon_cool . I'll have to weigh it out against losing some of the view out of my lovely bay window, though (the same window I want to put my pond under eventually).


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## BiscuitSlayer

lauraleellbp said:


> I've never had GW in any of my other tanks...


I have never had a tank that didn't have GW... in the beginning stages anyways. It seems like it always pops up within the first 4 to 6 months with me.

After the initial breakout, never have a problem after that.

It might have to do with when you set the tank up too. Setting it up in the spring/summer in FL might not be as advantageous as setting it up in the late fall/winter. If my memory serves me correctly, I have always set up tanks in the spring/summer in GA.


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## monkeyruler90

well, i set up my tank the same weekend as laura and i haven't had a problem with GW.( knock on wood) 
i really hope that daphnia culture makes it, hopefully it'll cure it.


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## lauraleellbp

What temps do your tanks run, Monkey? My office is one of the warmest rooms in our house with the south-facing bay window, so I wonder if that might have something to do with it, too. My tank runs between 79-82 F so far that I've seen...

I had my 10gal in this room for a few years with no issues, but the tank was already established when I moved it in. It was also on the far wall from the window. (This is where the 29gal is now).


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## Adhlc

Hey Laura, have you ever tried corysrus.com? I just checked and they do have some trilineatus at $4 a cory. I've never ordered from them myself but I have heard nothing but good things. roud:


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## lauraleellbp

Yep, I was originally planning on using them- till I added in shipping. To be that close to them but still pay that much for shipping was pretty crazy! I'll probably just wait till my LFS gets some in again, they just haven't had any in quite some time. Thanks for the suggestion :smile:


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## Adhlc

You're very welcome, and I understand exactly what you mean. I wanted some Adolfois but $110 for 5 is a bit much. Anyways, the tank looks great, I look forward to seeing it progress, keep us updated!


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## lauraleellbp

*Evolution of a tank*

I'm now 6 months into this project, and am just now stocking the tank! It's been a long, slow evolution- and I decided to post a brief pictoral recap just to see for myself how this tank has come along...

Jan 08 Started out with this 90gal fixer-upper from Craigslist:

















Feb 08 Completely rehabbed that tank and sold it:









And instead bought this one from forddna:









March 08 was spent saving and shopping- buying all the equipment needed for the tank- lights, filters, substrate, etc. so that by April I was finally ready to set it all up:

4/12/08 filled the tank for the first time and added some starter plants









4/17/08









4/30/08









5/22/08 (cloudy from bubbles right after filling tank)









5/26/08


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## lauraleellbp

Today:


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## SeaSerpant

It's clearing upish!


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## lauraleellbp

I wish.

I did a big water change so that I could see to trim and replant the Bacopa. There's still plenty GW in there for the daphnia though, whenever they get here... LOL

Now that I think about it- doing PWC without losing daphnia is going to prove a bit of a challenge... guess I'll be wrapping a Tshirt around the end of my python


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## lauraleellbp

*Fri. 6/13/08*

The fish are here!

They were delived to one of my neighbors and I've no idea how long they were sitting outside, but there were only 4 fish DOA- one C. schwartzi, 2 Otos (and they are O. macrospilus  ) and one of the pygmy cories. I can't see the pygmies very well but they don't look like C. hastatus- more like hasbrosus... but I can't tell just looking at them from the top. They are TINY probably less than 1/2".

They came inside a large styrofoam-lined box, all in a single bag with about 2 gallons of water. The water is pretty stained (brown, hopefully just tannins?) and full of poop. I immediately added some Prime to lock up any ammonia, and I've transferred them all into a bucket and am adding 1/2 cup of tank water every 20min or so (DrF&S has been backordered on those drip acclimators forever...) Since they're all mixed together I'm not at all sure the count of fish I actually have. It sure looks like there are a ton of Otos in there, though! Once the bucket is pretty much full I'll start doing water changes, and siphoning some of that poop out. I'm going to take my time with this, and probably not put them in the tank till after dinner.

These fish are all so tiny that I actually changed my mind- I think I'd have a doozy of a time getting them OUT of my 46gal, so I'm going to go ahead and remove the cherry barbs from my 90gal and put them all in there... and just wait a good long time before getting any more fish for the 90gal (which I will then QT in the 29gal). I decided that the 29gal just won't work for QTing these otos b/c there's no algae, but I also don't feel like moving all my fish around from tank to tank 3x to make room to QT these in the 46. There's definitely plenty of algae in the 90gal, and there will only be 3 old fish in there that could potentially be affected by any disease or parasite. So it's a calculated risk...

With great timing, my new RCS colony and black sponge prefilters from Petsmart all arrived today too. The sponge filters are the PERFECT size for fitting over the Rena XP2 intake :thumb: I had to cut the hole a little bigger to fit one over the AquaClear intake but that was a cinch.
So I'm a happy camper!

I'm not sure how good pics I'll be able to get once I put them in the tank with the GW and all, plus we're going out this evening, but I'll try to get some pics up soon.

So now I'm just waiting on Daphnia, which I think were shipped out yesterday so I HOPE will get here tomorrow (though I'm a little nervous about that...)


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## lauraleellbp

Forgive my lousy photography, but here are some pics:


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## @[email protected]

there are a lot of fish on their side. they arent dead are they?

an easy time to count fish is when netting them. count them as you move them into the tank.


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## deleted_user_16

cool!!!!!!! how many were dead tho ?


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## monkeyruler90

thats awesome. i love those dawrf corries. they're so cute


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## CobraGuppy

Nice new fish!

I love your e tennelus forground, its so green.


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## lauraleellbp

There were 4 fish that were DOA; 2 pygmy cories (I'm pretty sure these are C. hasbrosus, not C. hastatus), one of the C. schwartzi, and one Oto. The otos seem to be really large, fat and healthy, which is good. 

The pygmy cories seem to have had a rough go of it though. First of all, they're REALLY tiny- less than 1/2 inch, and several of them had holes in them, perhaps they were spined by the other catfish during shipping?

We went to dinner and a movie, and 3 more of the pygmies were dead when we got back. I knew 2 of them weren't looking good when I put them in the tank so I wasn't really surprised. I think I still have quite a few left, though. 

The less dominant Apisto also isn't looking so hot, very thin and clamped fins. He/she stays hidden behind the E. angustifolius on the other side of the tank from the other one.

This all sounds pretty bad... but I honestly was expecting this. Shipping isn't easy on fish. As long as there's no more than one or two more lost out of this shipment I'm going to consider it very much a success and probably order again.

I'm going to take my time waiting before I order from them again though... there's no way of knowing yet if any of these fish might have brought in some disease or parasites. So July before I get any more fish from BoxLot, at least (though I may get some from my LFS before then, since my QT tank is empty and ready to go...)


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## lauraleellbp

*Sat. 6/14/08*

Woke up this morning with 5 more pygmy Cories dead. So this makes 2 DOA, 3 dead yesterday, and 5 this morning. Not too many left at this point since I only ordered 15. They may have simply been too young to ship- these tiny things are about 1/2 the size of my Otos!

All the rest of the fish look great- with the exception of one lone Oto that's very inactive and red gills. The rest are all actively schooling around the tank and munching on algae :biggrin: All the C. schwartzi look good, and I caught a glimpse of one of the Apistos before I tuned on the lights. I haven't seen any dead bodies so I think they're OK too.


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## Tex Gal

I have had pygmy cories for about 4 years now. They are just small fish. I bought mine at the LFS, never lost one. I would only put them with dwarf fish. I did have a panda cory in with them and they seemed intimidated by him. I moved the panda. I can't imagine how they would fair in a community tank. They do seem to be ok with otos. Mine are with cherries and pygmy rasboras. They are healthy and happy. 

I read your entire thread. I've enjoyed your journey. Too bad we aren't neighbors! I'd love to have a fishy girlfriend!


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## lauraleellbp

I would LOVE to have you for a neighbor, TexGal! 

The pygmy toll is still climbing. One more dead, plus the less lively Apisto. All the dead ones have bloody areas inside, like some internal hemorraging. I'm starting to get a little nervous, now. 

The other Apisto is out and about and has been eating some frozen brine shrimp, so I think he's OK. All the C. shwartzi still holding up great, no Oto deaths yet though there are 2 now that I've noticed with some internal bloody areas, one I'm sure won't last through the day it's gotten so bloated. It's staying stuck to the glass next to the waterline.

I can see at least 4 pygmy cories are still alive in the tank ATM. I'm glad they were only $0.42 each!


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## Tex Gal

So sorry about your fish! At least you didn't have time to get attached to them. Sometimes things just don't work out no matter what. You sure have done all you can do... That's what separates the men from the boys! Hang in there!


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## lauraleellbp

3 more dead pygmies, and the worst-looking Oto.

Double-checked my ammonia and nitrIte- solid at 0 ppm.

I'm not sure I have any pygmies left now  I agree Tex- I'm glad I didn't really have time to get attached.

This leaves the total death toll so far:

1 C. schwartzi DOA
2 Otos, 1 DOA and the other within 24 hours
14/15 C. hastatus, 2 DOA and the rest within 24 hours

Looks like the pygmy Cories just weren't meant to be. I won't try them again, at least not from BoxLot.


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## @[email protected]

i dont think its your tank. most likely they were all stressed and damaged by the time you got them, a bunch just managed to hold on.


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## lauraleellbp

Thanks Marko, I don't think it is either, or else I'd be losing the other Cories and the Otos the same way. 

I also checked nitrAtes and pH- nitrAtes are 0ppm (not surprising with the huge water change I did this week so I could see to trim and replant the Bacopa, lol) and pH is in the 7.2 -7.4 range, also not surprising with the large water change. It drops between 7.0 - 7.2 when I don't do such large PWC.

I'm happy to say that _*for the first time*_, I was able to check on the tank with NO dead fish! I do suspect that the last pygmy cory is dead in there somewhere... I saw one swimming around looking wobbly right as my hubby and I were walking out the door to go catch a movie, but if so it's nowhere to be found.

I also found that my Daphnia shipment came in the mail today- I hadn't been out to the mailbox b/c of the torrential rains. Rains also kept the temps down, so the daphnia look in pretty good shape. They're acclimating in the tank as I type. Trying to find my brine shrimp net, and I'm hoping that one of my cats didn't run off with it (besides eating plants, Osiris also finds fish nets irresistable. :shrug: )

All the rest of the fish look very happy and active. I can't even find that other Oto that wasn't looking so good earlier today... so either it's dead and I haven't found it yet, or it's swimming around with the others.

I've decided that I really like the O. mariae- they're quite lovely. They are all too active for me to actually get a good count, but I think as many as half of the Otos may be O. mariae. And I think I must have between 10-15 Otos, total.

And on another happy note- my E. 'kleiner bar' is flowering! :waahooo: 

I'm so hoping this tank has turned a corner!


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## BiscuitSlayer

I wonder if the fish were amonia shocked from shipping, not your tank.

I would be interested to see if shipping fish when it is a bit cooler might work better too.


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## lauraleellbp

Biscuit- definitely a possibility.

The rains actually have been keeping temps down into the mid-80s for the past few days, so the weather hasn't been bad. These fish were only shipped from Miami, so pretty much the same weather there. I'm about 1.5 hours due West of Miami/Fort Lauderdale, just the other side of Alligator Alley.

I emailed Loren at BoxLot today and asked for store credit- he responded very quickly and said no problem. So I'll be placing a large order for tetras sometime soon, and see how they do. (I'm debating between Cardinals first, or Rummies...)

Only one fish lost all day so far, an Oto was floating in the tank this morning.

The little Apisto/whatever is quite a cheeky little fellow- checks me out through the glass and pokes his nose into every nook and cranny of the tank. I'm starting to worry a bit that he could be a baby Blue Acara, but there's really no telling for sure at this age.

There were also NO daphnia in the tank to be seen this morning. Apparently every last one of the daphnia apparently went into fish tummies overnight- the fish all had quite round bellies and weren't too interested in the frozen bloodworms I fed them today! So I guess we're on to Plan B with the GW...

Plan B includes some Red root floater and more Stargrass stems that should come in the mail this week... so I keep on trucking on... LOL


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## @[email protected]

i preffer neons to either of those, but cardinals are almos identical, so i suggest them.

poor oto. oh well, you have so many left, that as long as there is enough food they should breed.


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## CL

neons are hardier than rummies of cards, but are not as beautiful. They are also cheaper (at least they are in my area), so you could get more neons and have a better chance of survival (imo) because they are hardier


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## lauraleellbp

I actually don't care for neons; I have difficulty getting good stock, and IME Cardinals are hardier. To me Cardinals are the prettier fish (I love the way the red extends all across the bottom), and they're definitely more long-lived. Cardinals do better in warm temps than Neons, and since my tanks get over 80 all the time where I live, this might be why Cardinals have always done better for me.

Marko- I'm getting large schools of Rummies *and* Cardinals for this tank... Probably about 2x the Cardinals since they're my favorite fish. :biggrin: I'm just debating which to buy first. I'm leaning towards Cardinals ATM, since the Rummies tend to be more active and establish easier. On the other hand, the Cardinals might do better if I added them after Rummies were already established as dither fish... LOL So I still haven't made up my mind :hihi: 

I only ordered 10 Otos, but got MANY more than that (I lost count at 13 I think when I was putting them in the tank, but I think the total # was somewhere between 15-20?) And I've only had 3 deaths, so there's still lots of Otos. I love watching them school around the tank. Occasionally they'll start tagging along behind a swimming Amano shrimp- which the Amanos don't like and always try to shake them off- it's pretty funny! :icon_lol:


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## fishboy87

I'd go with rummies personally as they were the first fish to have after my ottos. I've only lost 4 in two months and 2 were sick from the start which i wouldn't call that bad overall. They definately serve as great dither fish and are pretty hardy after they become established. They also are good indicators (as you might know) for water quality and will help tell you when to do a water change so it also benifits your cardinals. This relies first on the shipping of wherever you get them (cardinals or rummies).Rummies are easier to acclimate than cardinals even though both aren't easy. So personally, I would start with rummies, wait a week or two(until the rummies are completely acclimated and happy), then try cardinals. Good Luck!


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## BiscuitSlayer

lauraleellbp said:


> Biscuit- definitely a possibility.


If you ever have fish shipped like that again, I would reccommend having your amonia test kit handy before you add anything to lock the amonia. You could get a reading and see where the levels are before you do anything. I am thinking it might take some of the mystery out of the losses days after initial introduction.


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## lauraleellbp

BiscuitSlayer said:


> If you ever have fish shipped like that again, I would reccommend having your amonia test kit handy before you add anything to lock the amonia. You could get a reading and see where the levels are before you do anything. I am thinking it might take some of the mystery out of the losses days after initial introduction.


Not a bad idea... I think I'll do that. Ammonia and nitrItes, actually- since they obviously don't fast the fish before shipping judging from the poo in the bag.

fishboy- Another reason I might go with Rummies first is due to the experience Overfloater had not too long ago with Cardinals from BoxLot (see the review thread in the "other websites" forum... I'm concerned that the disease may still be making its way through their Cardinal stock?

Of course, there's no guarantee it wouldn't be affecting the Rummy stock, either... so it's all a calculated risk. Always is, with WC stock...

It will be at least a month between getting Cardinals and getting Rummies no matter what, since my QT tank will be full.

Actually, I think bringing up my QT tank just made my decision for me- there's no fish in it ATM so I should probably start with the Rummies. Even though I've got an established filter and gravel in there I'm getting fewer Rummies than Cardinals, so less bioload will help establish the filter further in time for the Cardinals... so that's the decision.

I'm going to order 30, and anticipate about 30% losses. That's my prediction- we'll see how it goes. Now to decide WHEN to order them...


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## ColeMan

All this talk about your QT tank reminds me a need to get a QT tank set up...

I love both rummies and cardinals - either (or, I guess both!) will look great in your tank... but...

I wanted to come harass you about your congo suggestion for my tank: it's really something I've been tossing around, you see... so here's the problem (and this is all your fault, thank you): I'll get a QT tank, then get some rummies, and then leave them in the QT tank and scape it...then I'll have to get another QT tank for my other two tanks...I'll probably put some cardinals in there and have to scape it - then what will I use for a QT tank? Eventualy I'll run out of room and have to buy a new house or renovate. you see what you've done? :icon_surp


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## lauraleellbp

ColeMan said:


> All this talk about your QT tank reminds me a need to get a QT tank set up...
> 
> I love both rummies and cardinals - either (or, I guess both!) will look great in your tank... but...
> 
> I wanted to come harass you about your congo suggestion for my tank: it's really something I've been tossing around, you see... so here's the problem (and this is all your fault, thank you): I'll get a QT tank, then get some rummies, and then leave them in the QT tank and scape it...then I'll have to get another QT tank for my other two tanks...I'll probably put some cardinals in there and have to scape it - then what will I use for a QT tank? Eventualy I'll run out of room and have to buy a new house or renovate. you see what you've done? :icon_surp


Hehehe glad to help add fuel to the fire! :hihi: 

My solution to that problem came simply b/c I ran out of space for more tanks. I had to take down my 10gal to put up my new 29gal QT tank. So the 10gal by default will become the QT tank once I'm done stocking the 90gal and no longer need such a big QT tank (and the 29gal of course will become another planted tank... plus I'm converting my 46gal to a planted tank...) 

How many other tanks can you cram into your house? Maybe we can make a deal- I'll stock the fish you don't have room for, if you'll stock the fish I don't have room to keep! :biggrin: 

I think either a 20L or a 29gal would make a *perfect *QT tank for a nice large school of Congos! :angel: 

In all seriousness- I found a 20gal setup just minus the stand for $20 on Craigslist- then when I showed up to pick it up, turns out it's actually 29gal! Score! So I'm sure you'll be able to find something suitable pretty easy if you just keep an eye on CL.


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## deleted_user_16

for a school on tetras, the longer the tank the better. and if its only for tetras, get a 20L, because tetras need more length to swim than heighth.


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## Church

Laura, sorry to hear about all the deaths.  At least we know a little more about what to expect out of boxlotfish now, anyway. I'm actually still thinking about placing an order for some hastatus, but I'm aware it'll be a craps shoot. Thank you for keeping us updated!


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## lauraleellbp

Church- as long as you're OK getting C. habrosus instead of C. hastatus, LOL 

I'll be interested to see if your shipment does any better than mine. (Fingers crossed!)


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## lauraleellbp

Quick update:

36 hours now since any fish deaths. :bounce: 

Fish all are eating well and have nice round tummies :thumbsup: (They should- they certainly had plenty of daphnia!! LOL) I fed Omega One flakes today, and they also went over great with the Cories. Didn't see the Apisto, so I'm not sure he'll eat flake food yet, but I'm not worried about him.

Keeping an eye on the Kleiner bar flower- the stem is growing about an inch per day. Can anyone tell me- will it need to reach the surface before the flower blooms?

Red root floater, some more stargrass, and an Eheim 2217 should all come in later this week.

The Amanos are busy either molting or playing "Shrimp King of the Driftwood," the RCS are out and about doing their little algae-eating thing (they love hanging out in the E. tenellus), I haven't seen my Clown pleco in a week or so (I'm sure he's in there somewhere), and the water is once again a lovely shade of split pea soup... anyone want a bowl? LOL


----------



## A Hill

Glad to hear the ottos did well.

Maybe I'll order some this fall (once its cooler)

I might try and get my 45g up for breeding ottos, not sure if I'll be able to but I'll see. Dwarf corries are also on my want to breed list... maybe I'll try ottos and corries together.:icon_ques 

Tank looks good.

-Andrew


----------



## Tex Gal

lauraleellbp - still can't get on APC, but guess what!!! :bounce: I HAVE BABY DANIOS!!!! :fish: Some survived the tank catastrophe!!! GOD IS GOOD!!!! I have to wait to see if any of them turn out to be Leopard long finnned glo lights! I hope I get some of them to grow out and survive! :icon_mrgr


----------



## lauraleellbp

That's awesome, Tex Gal!!

I've no clue what's wrong with your link with APC, though, I haven't had any issues getting on there all day?:icon_conf 

Andrew- I don't remember if I mentioned it, but turns out most if not all my otos are actually O. mariae... which is fine with me, they're beautiful little fish.

I think breeding Otos sounds like a fun project :thumbsup: I also might try keeping dwarf cories again if you're successful and I can get CB stock from you


----------



## ColeMan

you getting excited about that eheim coming in the mail? is this going to be your very first one? You may have to get your stethoscope out to hear it!


----------



## lauraleellbp

LOL

I'm not sure Cole- I think the Eheim Dyamic Duo just might become entirely unsufferable!!! :icon_roll


----------



## ColeMan

ha!! is your purchase just for strictly scientific purposes then?


----------



## lauraleellbp

Nah, I'm a pragmatist- my biggest motivation in getting an Eheim is that I think the left side of my tank will need more flow than the XP2 can put out once all the plants have grown in.

I do want one of each of the major brands of filters though, just so I can decide for myself which one I like best. User-friendliness is one of the things that ranks really high with me. I like Les's more scientific examination of flow rates and bypass and all (I've followed all that with quite a bit of interest)... but in my book I just want the filter that gets the job done and is EASIEST to CLEAN! LOL


----------



## lauraleellbp

*Tues. 6/17/08*

Red root floater and some rooted stargrass came in today from god91234 :biggrin: The fish and shrimp are all loving the RRF, they've been all over it ever since I added it to the tank LOL

I noticed from my first batch of stargrass that the stems that made it were the ones that managed to put down roots. I've got the area pretty well seeded with root tabs, so I've got high hopes for this batch.


----------



## god91234

hope the star grass works out. that's from tex gal and so is that sword o i got them from her on APC (if it is the same gal) ... kinda ironic


----------



## SeaSerpant

Hey lauraleellbp, can we see some pictures of the pea soup?


----------



## lauraleellbp

god9- that's really cool! It's such a small world...  

*Passes around bowls and spoons* Here ya go! (Reflections on the glass from the window- taking pictures during the day)










Here's a pic of one of the otos that died a while back- turns out she was egg-bearing, I could see them inside her when I disposed of the body  









And here's one of the late C. habrosus:









But onto a happier note- I'm as sure as I can be (without being able to see into the tank too well LOL) that I haven't lost any more fish! :thumbsup: The otos are all active and have nice full bellies. I can count all the Cories, so I know they're all there. I haven't seen the Apisto today yet, but he looked good yesterday, I saw him eating. The shrimp all look great. 

The RCS love this floating hydrocoytle:









This corner of the tank is finally starting to fill in like I'd hoped. The E. angustifolius are still small, but are growing fast. I've lost count of all the plantlets! 









Added to the stargrass (it gets blown around a bit by the water current from the AquaClear):









"Catfish Corner"









And a nice, fat oto


----------



## mizu-chan

Oh wow, now thats what i call GREEN!:biggrin:
Looks amazing though.


----------



## Chrisinator

Awesome fish!


----------



## fshfanatic

That is some serious Green Water! Otto heaven for sure.

Have you given a DE filter any thought? I got one to clear out my green water a couple years ago and it has never returned. Cleared it up in about 36 hours or so.


----------



## @[email protected]

i have never seen water that green. its getting worse too. i advise you do SOMETHING. riding it out doesnt seem to be working.


----------



## lauraleellbp

I've wondered if dosing Excel has any impact on GW? I do have some BBA that popped up on one leaf of E. angustifolius (complete with RCS  ):


----------



## roybot73

Unfortunately, I think this calls for some UV action.
I respect your wanting to deal with it naturally, but sometimes you gotta bring out the big guns!!!


----------



## macclellan

Ultraviolet light is natural. So is diatomacious earth. Laziness is a distinctly human (i.e. unnatural) attribute.


----------



## lauraleellbp

LOL You never met my beagle! :icon_lol: 

Seems this GW bothers everyone else more than it does me! :hihi: fsh is right that the fish seem to be quite happy. The plants are growing. The algae obviously is absorbing some sort of excess (I'm leaning more towards light through my woven wood blinds as time goes on...), and I'd rather have GW than most other forms of algae... so what's the rush?

I am curious if anyone thinks Excel will make a difference or not. I haven't used any in this tank to date, but I'm planning on ordering some next week. Maybe I'll just have to try it and see!

H2O2 is always an option, as well, but I've heard mixed reports of its effects on livestock when dosing the tank... so I'm not leaning that direction.

Bottom line- I'm not in any hurry. Am I lazy? IDK... I think it's more I'm just laid back :biggrin:


----------



## fshfanatic

If that was my tank it would be driving me crazy. I would use a DE filter (like I did) and if for some reason that didnt work I would tear that sucker down and start again.

I would hate to have a tank that looked like that in my house. With all the time, money and effort that goes into a tank, that is not the result I would want my friends and family to see. 

But hey, if you are good with it that is fine. To me it is an eye sore.


----------



## lauraleellbp

You guys r all a bunch of techie junkies! LOL :biggrin: 

It's just a temporary phase... and I'm a patient person.

I'm never gonna hear the end of it though, if I finally cave and get a UV, am I?! :help:


----------



## BiscuitSlayer

lauraleellbp said:


> I'm never gonna hear the end of it though, if I finally cave and get a UV, am I?! :help:


Or borrow one. LOL


----------



## lauraleellbp

LOL

I haven't forgotten! :biggrin:


----------



## klumsyninja

A simple 3 day black out will clear that right up. Large WC before and after and seeya later GW.

Make sure you black out your canisters and anything that is translucent holding tank water... canister tubing etc.

You'll be shocked how effective it is. No chemicals no tech just darkness and 3 long days of curiosity.. no peeking though.

Worked for me.


----------



## lauraleellbp

Yep, thanks- that's definitely an option.

Only thing is, if this GW is being caused by the light that's coming through my windows, the GW will just be back.

If dosing Excel doesn't work (I want to try it since I need to order some anyways) then a blackout will most likely be my next step.

Trying one thing at a time, so I'm sure I understand the cause and effect. :biggrin:


----------



## BiscuitSlayer

lauraleellbp said:


> Only thing is, if this GW is being caused by the light that's coming through my windows, the GW will just be back.


Put garbage bags over your windows for 3 days.


----------



## klumsyninja

I tried over-dosing excell too first and it didn't put a dent in it. Thats why I suggested doing the blackout. 

The GW isn't caused by light coming in your windows it was caused by an ammonia spike most likely. 

At least thats the information I've found researching GW.


----------



## lauraleellbp

I'd be inclined to agree, except that I've never gotten a single ammonia reading in this tank, not from day one (used cycled media in the filter and tons of mulm in the substrate, plus very light bioload)...?


----------



## MiSo

lauraleellbp said:


> Only thing is, if this GW is being caused by the light that's coming through my windows, the GW will just be back.


i have my tank next to a window and i had to adjust my lighting scedule to where it did not invite green water. although i did have to get green water once to realize i needed to cut back on my lighting. i tried a little uv sterlizer from petsmart but that didn't put a dent in the green water. i ended up buying a diatom filter and in a day, the water was pristine.


----------



## klumsyninja

lauraleellbp said:


> I'd be inclined to agree, except that I've never gotten a single ammonia reading in this tank, not from day one


Ya apparently you may not get an ammonia reading but there's still a spike, not all ammonia is registerable or something. I remember reading someone saying the exact thing you're saying now and they had GW too (about not reading an ammonia spike). I am just regurgitating info I read about GW here, I'm by no means an algae expert or tank guru or anything. I just retain info for some reason. It was only last month that I went through this same thing with the pea soup tank.

When I dosed the excell it seriously hurt my Vals and the the blackout didn't help them any more, I've been growing them back ever since. I don't think I'll ever use Excell to combat algae again. Especially with my Vals and Shrimp in the tank.


----------



## Bk828

The 3 day blackout wont really help considering you have to find a source thats causing the green algae. I did a 5 day blackout before and had to stop it on the 4th day because I noticed some of my plants were dying. I would suggest either getting a UV sterilizer a diatom filter or perhaps try a method that worked for me. Which was stuffing 2 filters with filter floss and adding Accu-Clear. In an hour your tank should be clear again. Then do a water change and next day repeat the process. But make sure to take out the filter floss and rinse it extra well to get rid of all the gunk or i would even use new floss overall to make sure none of the spores get back into the aquarium to multiply. Another thing that helped me was updating my filtration.


----------



## @[email protected]

lauraleellbp said:


> It's just a temporary phase... and I'm a patient person.


sure, unless you dose to keep the algae healthy and its leaves free of pinholes from nutrient deficiency, it will run out of nutrients and die EVENTUALLY. 

jk, im sure youll find a way to get rid of it.


----------



## macclellan

lauraleellbp said:


> I'm never gonna hear the end of it though, if I finally cave and get a UV, am I?! :help:


Just get a UV filter and tell us it's to eliminate livestock pathogens...ich prevention etc. We'll believe you! 
And then, hey wait, the green water disappeared! 
Good old Principle of Double Effect! :fish:


----------



## Church

I've never fully understood why people are so "purist" that they are against the idea of using UV filters as a treatment for GW. They're always like "That's just putting a band-aid on the situation, you should find the source of the problem, bla bla bla..."

And I don't disagree with that sentiment, but come on, what's the big deal? UV filters make the GW go away in a matter of HOURS, so why not use it? What if you have a condition where the GW will always come back? Like if you're tank is in a bright, south facing room with a huge sliding glass door or something? BIG DEAL! The tank looks good there, right? So why move it? Just leave a UV filter running all the time, you don't get GW, and you get to have a crystal clear tank!

I just don't understand why it's such a taboo to use _treatments_ in places where _preventive measures_ are either not desirable or not possible.

Laura, I think you should use a UV filter, and you should be PROUD of it!


----------



## lauraleellbp

I'm just one of those people that don't like UVs... I don't like the idea of all the other things in the water column that it's killing that maybe I don't want dead... All the nifty little microorganisms that are in our tanks... 

I actually think it's cool when a filter gets colonized with worms, and when you clean it and the worms come shooting out, the fish all get a little feast... a UV sterilizer would kill them. (I'd have to set one up on the output of my canister since my Hydor is on the input tubing.)

It's a last resort. I don't feel like wasting $50-100 on a piece of equipment I don't really want. I can think of 100 other things I'd rather spend that $ on! LOL


----------



## lescarpentier

lauraleellbp said:


> (I'd have to set one up on the output of my canister since my Hydor is on the input tubing.)


An inline heater should always be installed on the output line of your filter.This is explained in the instructions.


----------



## monkeyruler90

i agree with laura
you have to find the cause not just try and cover it up


----------



## BiscuitSlayer

monkeyruler90 said:


> i agree with laura
> you have to find the cause not just try and cover it up


I agree with finding the root cause to any algae issue other than GW. There are two things that it comes from:

Amonia spike
New tank syndrome


I can see not using the UV sterilizer because it is not what you want to spend money on. I own one and I have pretty much no use for it (at the moment). If I were LL though, I would have a use for it.


----------



## lauraleellbp

Actually, I've never even plugged the Hydor in, and probably won't ever plug it in if I don't ever put discus in this tank... so that's not so much an issue ATM.  I was about to say that the Hydor came installed in the intake tubing with my XP2, but then realized that when I put it together I supposed I could have put the tubing on either side, intake or output... DUH :hihi: So I guess if I ever plan to plug the durn thing in I should switch the tubing around... I'll have to remember that. Thanks, Les.


----------



## BiscuitSlayer

lauraleellbp said:


> Actually, I've never even plugged the Hydor in, and probably won't ever plug it in if I don't ever put discus in this tank... so that's not so much an issue ATM.  I was about to say that the Hydor came installed in the intake tubing with my XP2, but then realized that when I put it together I supposed I could have put the tubing on either side, intake or output... DUH :hihi: So I guess if I ever plan to plug the durn thing in I should switch the tubing around... I'll have to remember that. Thanks, Les.


Actually, you might want to switch it anyway. The point of putting it on the outflow is to keep the water flow from getting restricted by filling up with debris and gunk. On or off, it could have the same impact.


----------



## lauraleellbp

Ugh.

That sucks. Makes sense though, I suppose. The things you don't think about when you don't use heaters for years and years... LOL

Oh well, guess I gotta do what I gotta do...


----------



## BiscuitSlayer

How long have you had the Hydor on the wrong side? 

It would be interesting to see just how clogged up it really gets on the inflow side. I am thinking it would be somewhat negligable as long as you kept up tank maintenace. It would be an interesting thing to report on though.


----------



## lauraleellbp

Ever since I set the tank up... so April?

I'll let you know what it looks like (if I can see anything?) when I take it all apart.

I *so* don't want to take this all apart... *sigh*


----------



## lescarpentier

BiscuitSlayer said:


> The point of putting it on the outflow is to keep the water flow from getting restricted by filling up with debris and gunk. On or off, it could have the same impact.


I really don't think that this is what the folks at Hydor were concerned with.
When it is correctly installed in the vertical position there is no possibility for any debris to accumulate with this design,so restriction is not the issue.The issue is with the protein deposits which accumulate in the intake hose which would be difficult to remove from the inside of the heater,and could damage it in the process.



lauraleellbp said:


> I *so* don't want to take this all apart... *sigh*


No problem...Have your husband do it.:icon_wink


----------



## rasetsu

Church said:


> I've never fully understood why people are so "purist" that they are against the idea of using UV filters as a treatment for GW. They're always like "That's just putting a band-aid on the situation, you should find the source of the problem, bla bla bla..."
> 
> And I don't disagree with that sentiment, but come on, what's the big deal? UV filters make the GW go away in a matter of HOURS, so why not use it? What if you have a condition where the GW will always come back? Like if you're tank is in a bright, south facing room with a huge sliding glass door or something? BIG DEAL! The tank looks good there, right? So why move it? Just leave a UV filter running all the time, you don't get GW, and you get to have a crystal clear tank!
> 
> I just don't understand why it's such a taboo to use _treatments_ in places where _preventive measures_ are either not desirable or not possible.
> 
> Laura, I think you should use a UV filter, and you should be PROUD of it!


I feel the same way. We are all totally playing God already anyways. Zapping the water with UV isn't any more unnatural than overdosing with Excel. Get a removable in-tank UV like the Submariner so you can zap for 24 hours and remove it or just switch it off. The UV isn't going to kill all the critters you want unless they actually pass through the sterilizer which they won't all do.


----------



## wearsbunnyslippers

BiscuitSlayer said:


> I agree with finding the root cause to any algae issue other than GW. There are two things that it comes from:
> 
> Amonia spike
> New tank syndrome


anyone ever seen a swimming pool that was blue one day, turn green the next, normally after a thunderstorm? i dont know if this is from acid rain that alters the ph to somewhere that algae really like, or if it is nutrients being washed into the pool, but it is amazing how quickly so much water can turn green.

green water in an aquarium normally clears up on its own, after the algal bloom has used up more of the available nutrients than can sustain it, so if you have had green water for a while there are probably excess nutrients that are still sustaining the algae, are you overfeeding?

adding excel or a uv filter will solve your problem as long as you keep up to using them, but the bloom is likely to come back as soon as you stop, like the people say, find the cause and treat that, but if you are tired of looking at pea soup then try the uv or excel...


----------



## lauraleellbp

Soooo Over on my "original" journal thread at TFH, we got to discussing what is different about this tank versus my other tanks, since I've never had GW or the fish death issues during water changes on any of them like on this tank... and other than the placement of the tank (which is still a possibility, being that close to the bay window even though I keep the blinds down) the only thing different is that I used peat in the substrate on this one, and that I'm using WonderGro fert tabs that probably got stirred up when I moved the kleiner bar a while ago (though I had the GW before that).

I read through the indgredients of the peat pretty carefully before I bought it. The bag ONLY said 100% Canadian sphagnum moss, and nothing about ANY additives... but I'm wondering, now. There has to be a source of nutrients in this tank, somewhere, that keeps feeding the GW...

My ammonia and nitrItes have never read anything other than 0 ppm since tank setup. My nitrAtes have fluctuated between 0ppm and 10ppm depending on how recent the last water change was (as of yesterday are at 0ppm). pH ranges between 7.0 - 7.4 depending on how recent the last water change was as well, and yesterday was 7.2. I shot off an email a while back to API to see if their test kits read ammonium, but never got a reply.

I had to regenerate my Purigen after only 2 weeks. I'd assumed that this was due to the massive tannins that have kept coming off this batch of Manzanita, but now I'm wondering... If there were additives in this peat that weren't listed on the bag, this would explain quite a bit.


----------



## BiscuitSlayer

lescarpentier said:


> The issue is with the protein deposits which accumulate in the intake hose which would be difficult to remove from the inside of the heater,and could damage it in the process.


Close enough.


----------



## NstyN8

What have you been doing for water changes? Anything massive?


----------



## lauraleellbp

NstyN8 said:


> What have you been doing for water changes? Anything massive?


Not since the last drain/refill, before the fish were added. I haven't done any PWC at all since adding the fish, so none in the past 2 weeks.

Haven't taken down the XP2 yet, either... I may just wait till I get the new Eheim set up and simply do that all at once.


----------



## lauraleellbp

Well, I won't be ordering any more fish through BoxLot. They rather abruptly decided that they weren't going to offer me any sort of store credit after all (said it wasn't worth their time), and also said they were too busy to work with me to coordinate what day to mail out the next fish shipment so that I would be able to make plans to receive them. Apparently they'd prefer to do business only with businesses placing larger orders than the average hobbyist. A pity, and I'm rather miffed on them going back on what they'd originally said, but I suppose understandable as a whole. I do, however, need someplace that will be able to work with me on shipping- no way I'm risking leaving fish sitting on my front porch during Florida summer heat!

On the good news front, however, my Kleiner bar flower has reached the surface of the tank!  










And the girls were "posing" so here they are as well:


----------



## mizu-chan

Sucks that you couldn't work things out with them. Best of luck finding a new source!

btw -- Your dogs are adorable


----------



## Church

I hate to admit to being a cynic, but I felt that this was coming... I just had a feeling about that company... 

Prices that were just too good to be true... Customer service that was too good to be true.... yeah.

Thanks for taking one for the team, Laura, so we all know who to stay away from.


----------



## rasetsu

Did BoxLot have guaranteed live delivery? They won't even issue a refund for the DOA's?


----------



## lauraleellbp

Church- With the customer service I'd received the first time around, I'd had hopes for BoxLot... but oh well. Back to the drawing board looking for a reliable online (preferably Floridian) source for South American tetras...

No, rasetu, no guarantees. Even though about 20 fish died, I'm only out about $10, and still saved money in the long run on the fish that I have remaining, so I'm really not upset.

Thanks mizo-chan


----------



## rasetsu

lauraleellbp said:


> No, rasetu, no guarantees. Even though about 20 fish died, I'm only out about $10, and still saved money in the long run on the fish that I have remaining, so I'm really not upset.


 
That's good. $10 isn't too expensive of a learning experience at least.


----------



## Tex Gal

Guess what girlfriend?... I was at an LFS yesterday and found pygmy corys. They were selling them as baby corys (hahaha). They were only $1.99. That's the cheapest I've seen them. I got 10 for my plant grow out tank. I have blueberry shrimp and snails in there. Thought they would be a good additions since they won't eat the baby shrimplets I hope to get. They are the cutest little guys!

Is your GW any better?


----------



## lauraleellbp

What a deal! Can't wait to see pics 

Nope, no change in the GW. I haven't tried anything new, though.

I did to a 25% PWC today, just so I could see to check up on all the fish and plants. I had a little sprig of Bacopa float up to the surface yesterday, so I wanted to make sure it wasn't melting on me or something bizarre... but it's doing fine, growing like the weed it is (LOL) and I guess the Cories must have just knocked out a sprig that I'd replanted when I trimmed it a few weeks back. I also trimmed some more Hydrocoytle to let that float. The RCS LOVE hanging out in it!  

All the fish are doing great- no losses :thumbsup:


----------



## Tex Gal

Well, keep a log! Maybe you can get into Ripley's Believe it of Not" for the longest GW outbreak!  (Think "silver lining"!)


----------



## CL

isnt green water caused by some kind of little bug thing call euglena? we studied them in biology this year lol, my teacher had to pay for them from a science company. lol, he bought green water


----------



## @[email protected]

what do you mean "bug". if you mean tiny organism, yes; if you mean arachnid or insect, no.

as far as i know green water is the bloom of a kind of protist.


----------



## lauraleellbp

*6/28/08 Update*

Made the longggg trip to the good LFS up in Ft. Myers, Boardroom Aquatics. I was hoping they had RummyNosed or Colombian tetras, but they were all out of Rummies, and only had 3 Colombian tetras  

Sooooo, instead I came home with 25 gorgeous little Pristella tetras and 6 German Blue Rams. They're all chilling now in my 29gal QT tank, I'll try and get some pics tomorrow :fish:


----------



## deleted_user_16

6?!?!?!?!? wow, i hoep u got 3 m's and 3 f's/ i hear pristella tetras are amazing when they settle in. they school nicely. tell me how they do, i might want some for my 20 long!!!


----------



## Tex Gal

Congrats on the fish! So much fun to welcome new family members!


----------



## CL

lauraleellbp said:


> *6/28/08 Update*
> 
> Made the longggg trip to the good LFS up in Ft. Myers, Boardroom Aquatics. I was hoping they had RummyNosed or Colombian tetras, but they were all out of Rummies, and only had 3 Colombian tetras
> 
> Sooooo, instead I came home with 25 gorgeous little Pristella tetras and 6 German Blue Rams. They're all chilling now in my 29gal QT tank, I'll try and get some pics tomorrow :fish:


Woah! I was just there today around 1! I saw those blue rams, and would have bought them if I didnt have such a long haul home. They had a TON of cardinals in that one tank with the discus. Thats crazy we almost bumped into each other!
edit* tomorrow I'm going to the Fish Store in Atlanta, should be fun!:thumbsup:


----------



## lauraleellbp

Yeah, those Cardinals were a serious temptation, but I didn't have quite enough in my budget to buy the whole school I want at once, since they were $3 each there. The discus didn't look so happy... I think the temp in that tank was probably too low for them, they were all black. He must have had 500+ Cardinals in that tank, though!

Next time you're down this way PM me- it would be kinda cool to get together! 

Fish- yeah, I got 6 figuring worse comes to worst I do have 3 tanks to spread them out... They're pretty small now, so there's time for them to grow in I think before they'll start pairing off.

Tex, thanks- it is!  Also, I've been reading that it can easily take more than a month for GW to fade on its own. I'm patient. I think I prefer still to let it self-correct, if at all possible.


----------



## lauraleellbp

I THINK I may have "crossed the hump" with the GW. I was expecting that the full-on pea soup would have been back by today after my PWC on Friday... but the tank looked the same if not even a little better!

So I did another 20% PWC today. There was tons of dead and dying algae in the sponge prefilters (I went ahead and cleaned them before refilling the tank), so that's also a little more hope for me.

So here's some updated pics of the tank, and also of the new fish in the QT tank (lousy pics as usual, but at least they're pics LOL):

QT tank:


----------



## lauraleellbp

And here's some pics of the 90gal. Still a long way to go before it's clear again, but it's definitely better:

E. kleiner bar with flower stalk









The flower grows an inch a day!!









Little Apisto wasn't feeling especially photogenic today









Favorite RCS and Oto hangout









Favorite Amano hangout









There are actually 4 Amanos in this pic. The one on the far left is about 2x the size of the others- and she's berried as all get out! I really wish I could get a better pic, but this was the best I could do 


















And here's a FTS


----------



## fishbguy1

The tank looks awesome!

Are you doing anyhting special to treat the green water? I have i bad, like you, in my 40 gallon.

The lfs I work at actually rents out a UV sterlizer, so I'm gonna borrow it to clear up my tank.


----------



## god91234

the sword looks really nice! how is the RRF and star grass doing?


----------



## lauraleellbp

god- Most of the RRF got submerged and died like the Salvinia  , but there are a few pieces here and there that I hope will start filling in soon. I've got about 6 stems of Stargrass now that are doing OK, and slowly starting to put out some new leaves. I was hoping that it would grow as quickly as Bacopa does in my tank, but so far that's just not proving to be the case. I do hope to eventually get enough going to fill that corner, though.

fishb- nope, I'm pretty much just letting the GW run its course. It's much, much better than it was about 4 days ago!


----------



## deleted_user_16

trust e, you will be satisfied when your stargrass grows new leaves. the colors are incredible!!! almost neon green


----------



## skoorbza

lauralee, I really like the big rock in your QT. Looks to me like a bearded old man's face!

Congrats on the new roomies!


----------



## fishbguy1

Okay, so I have green waer in my 29 now.

It should just run it's course, right?

Sorry about the hijack.


----------



## @[email protected]

laura, what i can see of the tank is beautiful. unfortunately because of your gw, thats not much. but it IS clearing.

fishbguy: if you are purist. many advise diatom filter or uv sterilization. i cant suggest anything really, as i never had green water since im cool like that.


----------



## lauraleellbp

Thanks, Marko and skoorb  LOL @ Marko... I hadn't either... don't worry, your turn will come (evil laugh) waaahahaha

I'm happy to say the tank is even clearer today than yesterday! Woohooo! I think this stuff is really on its way out! :fish: :fish1: :fish: :fish1: :fish: 

fishb- yes you could let it just run its course like I did, or you could go the Uv sterilizer route. Up to you.

Reading through lots of old threads on GW, I think part of my problem was when I did replanting, I was draining the tank first (for better access to the plants) and then just refilling it. But with all the nutrients in my substrate (peat and fert tabs especially) this left all those nutrients free in the water column. Next time I do some replanting I need to make sure to do a water change afterwards to remove any nutrients I pull up. We'll see if that helps in the future.

If by tomorrow the tank hasn't clouded back up, I'll do another 20% PWC.


----------



## @[email protected]

thats great!

how are the plants doing? im really suprised that they are doing as well as they are with so much light being blocked out.


----------



## Church

Laura, that was *precisely* the reason for my one and only (so far) greenwater outbreak... Kids, if you pull plants out of the substrate, DO A WATER CHANGE AFTERWARD!!!


----------



## lauraleellbp

I hope that's the explanation for the GW... if not, I might be back to the drawing board shortly LOL

Marko- the plants are all doing great. Nothing died off, though the plants near the bottom also haven't been filling in, either. My L. repens looks leggy, but healthy (and it's also shaded by the sword). I actually had to trim the Bacopa right in the middle of this outbreak- it had just about reached the surface. I also had to trim the Hydrocoytle- that stuff loves my tank


----------



## fishbguy1

hmm...I just got new gravel, plants, etc. Everything in my tank was new, except my filter, which I had running on my 40 gallon (which also has green water) which is prolly why it's in my 29 now.

I'm gonna borrow a UV from my work tho...lol

Hopefully your's clears up soon. Try asking the lfs's near you if they rent out UV sterlizers. That's what mine does. thatway you don't have to buy one. Or see if any people in your local fish clubs might have one that you can borrow.


----------



## eyebeatbadgers

Black outs have worked very well for me in the past, when I had GW problems. The root of my blooms were from ammonia though, from too small a filter. Hope yours clears soon!


----------



## lauraleellbp

So my little mystery Apisto is quite the Pistol...

This morning I was watching a bright red little RCS swimming across the front glass. I thought to myself, "oh, how pretty!" All of a sudden, the little Apisto darts out of the driftwood, grabs the shrimp, shakes it furiously, and drags it back into the driftwood! :icon_eek: 

Definitely explains why most of my RCS hide up in the floating Hydrocoytle! ROFL

Then this evening, I feed the fish some frozen enriched brine shrimp. I look back later- and there's the little Apisto- flaring like crazy and holding off NINE cory cats TWICE his size from the cube of brine shrimp that's as big as he is!!!

This little guy might end up being trouble...


----------



## @[email protected]

lol
yeah i saw rams behave similarly.

what you can do, is take a little cup or the lid of the fish flake can and put the cube in there, then defrost it using tank water in there, and then pour the defrosted stuff into various parts of the tank. no fish can defend 2 opposite areas of the tank.


----------



## lauraleellbp

*Tues. 7/1/08 Update*

Things continue to improve, so I did another 25% water change today. For the first time in a month, I can see the back of my tank! Woohoo! So of course I got some pics.  

The little Apisto was feeling rather photogenic tonight, so I got the best pics of him to date:























































And I also got some better shots of the berried Amano


----------



## CL

Congratulations on the improving water . How large is that amano? My two biggest are around 2"


----------



## lauraleellbp

(I'm posting this in pieces b/c my internet went down a few min ago and I lost this whole massive post!!)

And here's a "trip" around the tank

E. 'kleiner bar' (with flower stalk)









E. tenellus 'narrow'









E. angustifolius 'vesuvius'









Bacopa caroliniana









E. tenellus "regular"









Heteranthera zosterifolia (I've got about 6 stems that seem to be making the transition to low light, just growing VERY slowly. I hope eventually to be able to fill in this section with the stargrass, though- it's such a lovely plant!)









E. angustifolius









Hydrocoytle leucocephala "vining" around the driftwood (and whole right side of tank)









FTS


----------



## lauraleellbp

clwatkins10 said:


> Congratulations on the improving water . How large is that amano? My two biggest are around 2"


oops I totally missed your question!

Believe it or not, she's almost 4" - she's the biggest Amano I've ever seen! I got her from Boardroom, too- a few months ago- so I've no idea how old she is. The other Amanos in the pics are 2"


----------



## CL

lauraleellbp said:


> oops I totally missed your question!
> 
> Believe it or not, she's almost 4" - she's the biggest Amano I've ever seen! I got her from Boardroom, too- a few months ago- so I've no idea how old she is. The other Amanos in the pics are 2"


HOLY cow! Thats HUGE!! How many thousands of eggs do you think she holds!?!?!? I bet she eats tons of algae.


----------



## @[email protected]

wow. thats a big amano.

do you plan on transfering the young to a marine tank, and then back, or will you not try to raise them?


----------



## macclellan

Whaaa? A 4" Amano? You surely can't mean the body alone, and are including antennae? That's a serious Amano!


----------



## lauraleellbp

I'm not kidding at all, and nope- that doesn't include her antennae. She's reddish in color, too- with a line down her back like RCS get sometimes. You can see the difference in color between her and the other Amano with her on that branch. (I'm starting to wonder if that line down the back might be a sign of dominance in shrimp?) I did a triple-take when I saw her at the LFS. I hadn't gone in planning to buy Amanos at all, but when I saw her I bought every one they had in stock LOL

No, Marko, I don't have a marine tank to try and rear the young in, and so far I haven't seen any reports of successfully raising the young in captivity? I just hope that she's able to drop the young or eggs OK at some point without them interfering with her health. I'd hate to loose her 

I had a pair of GBRs exibiting spawning behavior last night in my 29gal after I topped off the tank, becoming quite aggressive towards all my other fish. I was really worried I was going to have to move some fish around to protect them from aggression, but I rearranged the tank some, adding my other piece of resin driftwood in there to provide more caves and break up sight lines- and that seems to have worked for now. These guys are all only about 1", I thought when I got them I wouldn't have to worry about them spawning for at least a few months! :icon_eek:

I'm pretty sure I haven't lost ANY of the new fish in the QT tank. For anyone living in the Ft. Myers area- Boardroom Aquatics is THE place to go for fish!! :thumbsup:


----------



## lauraleellbp

An eventful day in my office. This afternoon the GBRs finally figured out the whole spawning bit, and were going to town on top of one of the pieces of driftwood. Took them a bit, and they ate quite a few eggs before the male realized "oh, I need to fertilize these suckers, not eat them!" So that's what was going on when I went to eat dinner.

I got back from dinner, and another female decided she wanted to get in on the act- her belly was pinking up and she kept trying to entice away the male. The other female was having none of it- boy were her eyes red! But the interloper female persisted, and finally managed to start snagging some eggs. Mom caught her redhanded- and grabbed her by the EYE and started shaking her furiously... at which point ALL the rams got in on the act, gobbling eggs- and it was totally out of control!

Sooooo I grabbed my net, put them ALL in a bucket, and started acclimating them all with 90gal water. After an hour's acclimation, I just added them all into the 90gal. They're all stressed out and hiding under the driftwood. We'll see how long it lasts...

I don't mind if they spawn in there- plenty of room, and lots of plants for the subdominants to hide in.

I will have to keep an eye on that little Apisto, though...


----------



## lauraleellbp

That didn't take long.

The Apisto is now a resident of the 29gal.

He was chasing the subdominant rams around the tank. (The dominant trio that are busy flirting with each other were able to fend him off pretty easily, but not the other three.)


----------



## lauraleellbp

*7/5/08*

The tank moves were successful at curbing the aggression... at least, for now. The GBRs shoal together around the 90gal, now, and I haven't seen any more spawning behavior- yet. May still have some issues down the road, but we'll see. 90gal is plenty of floorspace for them to spread out, at least.

The Apisto seems happy in the 29gal, and he totally ignores the Pristellas. I have a feeling I'm going to end up taking him to an LFS; he wasn't in my stocking plans to begin with, and since he can't seem to get along with the GBRs I really don't have another tank I want him in indefinitely.

One of my C. schwarti died. First fish death in several weeks. Can't really determine a cause, nor am I sure if it was one of the Boxlot fish or the one I've had for years... so I'm just going to chalk it up to "one of those things" for now. Keeping a close eye on the rest of the fish, but so far everyone else looks pretty healthy.


----------



## deleted_user_16

do you have any updated pics after the move?


----------



## @[email protected]

yes, i noticed that rams like to go for the eyes, like ravens. my ram male bit my rainbows eye when he got close to the female (HA! like the rainbow wanted to steal his girl, he was just chasing the female rainbow). nothing happened, though. i think when they go for the eye its more to scare the other fish, then an attempt to do actual damage. only later do they chomp down...


----------



## Tex Gal

Boy this is beginning to read like an interesting novel- all the requirements present - love, hate, death, life, jealousy, violence, protection, mysterious stranger.... Quite the little world you've got going on there!!

Glad things are finally shaping up there. Can't wait to see the new pxs. WITHOUT so much green!:hihi:


----------



## lauraleellbp

The tank looks MUCH much better... I'll try to get some pics posted tonight. Still some cloudiness, but definitely not soup in there like it was before!


----------



## ColeMan

good to hear - I was considering secretly shipping you a UV sterilizer...I'm glad I didn't have to resort to that!! Look forward to the new pics!


----------



## lescarpentier

ColeMan said:


> good to hear - I was considering secretly shipping you a UV sterilizer...I'm glad I didn't have to resort to that!! Look forward to the new pics!


ROFL
I was thinking the same thing...


----------



## SeaSerpant

So give us some pictures. We know that it sounds like something goods happening but how do we know that it's still pea soup and your just saying that to get these people off your back. Huh, how do we?


----------



## lauraleellbp

LOL @ you guys... I'm torn between wanting to hug you for being sweet and smacking you upside the head for wanting to fix things YOUR way :hihi: MEN!! LOL

Anyways, here's pics. I haven't done any additional water changes since... (had to go back and look) the 1st, so it's been a week. The tank actually looks clearer and better in person than it does in the pics; crappy camera:

I wish the reds came through clearer in the pictures- this sword is definitely my fav  


















And here's the flower- one of the buds has finally started blooming!! (the white splotch  )

















I've got a mix of Salvinia, duckweed (ugh), Hydrocoytle, and Red root floater going now in the tank. I'll probably eventually thin the floaters down to just RRF once I have enough.









Undershot (oops I forgot to move the thermometer cord out of the way...)









The hydrocoytle is yet another reason I have a hard time getting good shots of the tank- it catches the light and throws it back at the camera:


















Here's a better shot of the E. angustifolius 'vesuvius'- I keep waiting but no sign yet that it's sent out any runners?









One of the E. africanus that will eventually try and take over the tank (I think I've got a few years on this one at the rate they've been growing though LOL)









A few fuzzy shots of the GBRs (they won't hold still and my camera absolutely can't catch anything in motion :icon_roll )



























And here's a few angled FTS


----------



## lopez_316us

Is looking great!! 

Did you got the GBR online? they look beautiful.


----------



## SeaSerpant

i love it now that i can see it


----------



## Ozymandias

looks good and happy for you that it's clearing up


----------



## lauraleellbp

Thanks, guys. I'm hoping in another week it will be nice and crystal clear like the rest of my tanks (fingers crossed!)  If we don't go out of town again next weekend I also hope to be adding my school of Pristellas to the 90gal, and getting my next school of tetras for the 29gal QT tank...

lopez- no, I didn't get my GBRs online, an LFS had some great-looking ones in stock when I was there last week so I snagged 6


----------



## deleted_user_16

those pristellas schoolin nicely in ur 29?


----------



## mizu-chan

I love Pristellas 
Such neat looking fish.
Congrats on clearing up the water bit by bit! :thumbsup:


----------



## CL

lauraleellbp said:


> LOL @ you guys... I'm torn between wanting to hug you for being sweet and smacking you upside the head for wanting to fix things YOUR way :hihi: MEN!! LOL


WOMEN! Can't make up their minds! LOL:hihi:

I know, I just had to:icon_roll


----------



## lauraleellbp

LOL @ Chris!

Thanks mizu- I can't wait to add the Pristellas to the 90gal.

Fish- yes, they school quite often in the 29gal. Not all the time- usually they're scattered all around the tank, but there's typically at least 4 or 5 that are schooling at any given time- then occasionally they decide to all "get in on the act" and swim back and forth together... I'm thinking in the 90gal they'll have even more room and will school more often; but I'll just have to wait and see.


----------



## deleted_user_16

lauraleellbp said:


> I can't wait to add the Pristellas to the 90gal


we cant either  :thumbsup:


----------



## lauraleellbp

Well, we're going out of town this weekend for my MIL's Bday, so I guess getting more fish and moving the Pristellas will be on hold for at least a few days...

However, I got some better pics of my sword flower, and also a few more shots of the tank:

















http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj72/lauraleellbp/IMG_3747.jpg

I love the way the E. angustifolius is filling in so nice and thick; I just wish it would grow taller like the older stems (I'm hoping that I don't have too much light in this corner for that! :icon_eek: )









The E. tenellus 'narrow' isn't getting thicker, but is sending off lots of runners that are just now starting to poke their little leaves up from the substrate. The E. tenellus 'regular' isn't sending out runners that I can tell, but just getting very bushy. I actually hope that it will start growing a little more vertical than it has been so far; I want a grassy look, but so far it's growing more "bushy" 









Left side of the tank









Right side









And FTS


----------



## deleted_user_16

clearing up a LOT

i have one thing to say tho, why not some nice, red stems?


----------



## lauraleellbp

My tank is so deep they don't do well. I do have about 2 or 3 stems left of the L. repens I got a while back, but they're very leggy and not any red at all (you can see them growing over between the sword and the Bacopa). 

I'm still debating adding some Indian red swords for that reason, but I'm not really wanting to increase the # of plant species in the tank plus I'm not quite sure where I'd want to put them...


----------



## deleted_user_16

cabomba can grow very tall when let, my grew tall, so it bent at the surface!!! try stems like cabomba, hygrophila sp. 'pantanal', and polygonum sp 'sao paolo', they all grow quite large.


----------



## lauraleellbp

We'll see what happens with my Cabomba when it gets closer to the surface. I don't care for Hygros and really don't want to add any more stem species for sure. Swords I'd consider- but no more stems


----------



## deleted_user_16

wow, u really love those swords


----------



## lauraleellbp

Yep. I've got 3 more in pots in my 46gal- just waiting for me to convert it to a planted tank, too...


----------



## deleted_user_16

wow, lol, i think u like em a little too much


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## lauraleellbp

I've got 6 species just in this tank, and 2 more species in the 46gal...


----------



## deleted_user_16

do you have red flame?


----------



## lauraleellbp

Nope, that one is still on my "want list"- along with Red Rubins, Indian reds, Tropica swords, Ozelots, Red diamond... hmmm bunches more


----------



## deleted_user_16

gotta love those tropica's!!! i havent seen a single runner from mine tho......


----------



## god91234

i got a 'red flame' and i am getting a 'red devil' from Aaront and i am working to get the 'deep purple' ...swords are great...and lauralee is like a town over, maybe its something in the water here... i have tossed around the idea of going all sword. than they had to split the Echinodorus family and it lost the magic to me.


----------



## lauraleellbp

I'll be keeping an eye on your 'red devil'  

What does a 'deep purple' look like?

I don't care if they split the genus or not- they're all still swords and I love em! :thumbsup: I'm strongly leaning towards just swords, crypts, and vals in my 46gal and 29gal...


----------



## lauraleellbp

*Wed. 7/9/08*

There's a whole lot of shaking going on in my big sword!!! LOL

I've been watching them all night. I'm pretty sure at this point that I have 2 males (one big, one pretty small) and 4 females. The big male chases the little one well away any time it's in his line of sight. The 4 females... well that's a different story- but the big male certainly has "women problems"!! There are 2 that have been pretty aggressively pursuing him all night; one I've seen him spawn with, and the other I'm not quite so sure about. They each have a leaf on a different side of the swordplant, out of each others' sight.







I think the eggs are getting eaten, though; either that or they're on a part of the sword leaf I can't see. Neither of them are the female he spawned with in the 29gal. The one I'm sure he's spawned with is Female #2, though. I've seen the females liplock a few times- they're not too happy with each other! Fortunately all the other fish are being completely ignored.

I thought they'd pick out a spot on the driftwood to spawn. Maybe the Clown pleco and ever-present Amanos made them stake out the sword instead. Big female is still very berried. She must have thousands of eggs... I hope to see them when she releases them?


----------



## god91234

Deep purple ::drool::


----------



## lauraleellbp

oooOOOOoooo That's gorgeous! LMK if you find it and they have more than you want to get!!


----------



## eyebeatbadgers

lauraleellbp said:


> What does a 'deep purple' look like?


Like this:









Tank's looking good


----------



## Tex Gal

It's looking good in there. Love your sword!


----------



## god91234

Tex Gal said:


> It's looking good in there. Love your sword!


it use to be urs i would hope so lol she got it form me who got it from u on APC


----------



## Tex Gal

god91234 said:


> it use to be urs i would hope so lol she got it form me who got it from u on APC


:biggrin: Well at least I'm consistent!


----------



## lauraleellbp

LOL @ EBB  

Tex and/or god- LMK if you want a baby back- I've got one growing now on the end of the flower stalk! First to claim it gets it... Or I'll end up planting it somewhere myself. 

My tank is FINALLY crystal-clear- wooohoooo!!! I went ahead and added all the Pristellas to the tank in celebration. I'll try and post some pics tonight.


----------



## deleted_user_16

pleeeeeeeeez pics sooner, i wanna see tank!!! how did u get it crystal clear?


----------



## lauraleellbp

LOL I can't get decent pics till after dark, too much reflection coming in off the windows.

I just waited it out. Was the least popular option, but it worked!  

I figured there had to be nutrients in the water column whether or not my test kits were picking them up. I also figured that algae were the most likely to be able to use up the nutrients the quickest, since most of the plants in my tank are swords or other slow-growers (except the Bacopa). Of all the algaes, I'd rather GW take them up than anything else... so eventually it had to all run its course and balance itself back out.  I'd have to go back and look to be sure, but I think it was about 6-8 weeks all told? 

The Purigen cleared up the tannins, too. I've had to regenerate it 2x now- that's how much my DW was still putting off even after all this time. (I stuck the Purgen in my AquaClear this time so it's easier to get to, don't have to unhook any of my filters to look at it or pull it out...)


----------



## lescarpentier

lauraleellbp said:


> My tank is FINALLY crystal-clear- wooohoooo!!!


Bought a UV sterilizer on the sly,didn't you?:hihi:

You devil you!


----------



## Ozymandias

cant wait to finally see it all cleard up Lauraleellbp


----------



## @[email protected]

well if its newly clear, and has new fish, then we need new pics.


----------



## lauraleellbp

OK. I spent most of this evening working on eradicating duckweed from my QT tank (ugh) but couldn't finish b/c I learned we're out of paper towels (double ugh)... so that's a project for tomorrow. Sorting duckweed out of riccia and guppy grass is NOT FUN!  I'll also have to tackle the stuff in the 90gal soon, before the stuff gets totally out of control in there...

Anyways, here's lots and lots of pics!  

Sword flowers have bloomed and are wilting









Being replaced with a swordlet (is that a word?)









Here's the sword and, L. repens, and one of the female GBRs


















The dominant GBR male under the sword









Dominant male and 2 of his harem









Better pic of the dominant male









This is the subordinate male (very out of focus- sorry!)









A little better pic of him, just further away









Berried female Amano (top view)- you can see how huge she is in comparison to the other Amano on that piece of wood with her!









In silohuette









My Clown pleco is under the driftwood on the right, first pic I've gotten of him ever, maybe?









Scavenging Cories









Fat Otos









My new truck









And.... Pristellas!  




































FTSs


----------



## CobraGuppy

Nice new truck! 

Wow, your tank looks even better now that it's clearer. Did it just go away?


----------



## lopez_316us

Congratulations! 

I love you GBR they look so beautiful.


----------



## deleted_user_16

NICE EVERYHTHING!!!! i like the GBR!!!!


----------



## Ozymandias

so good to see every thing cleared up, and man the tank looks good


----------



## lauraleellbp

Thanks, everyone. It's nice to be able to see throughout the entire tank and be able to better keep an eye on all the plants and critters.  The GBRs are nonstop entertainment- like a soap opera in there; they're always "jumping in the sword" with a different fish every time I turn around! LOL

If anyone ever wonders if just waiting out GW actually works- my tank is proof positive! :thumbsup: 

We picked up my Ridgeline this past weekend, it was time to move on from my old Civic (either that or pour $ into it; timing belt and all that jazz)...

EDIT I was about to call it a night, and walked over to switch off my tank light... when I saw this!




























So of course I've been glued to my tank for the past hour. I started watching all the other rams... and then I noticed this...



















Can't really see much in the pics, but on that very bottom leaf is another female guarding another clutch of eggs. And this is the female I think the male is actually spawning with. After watching them for an hour, I'm pretty sure the male isn't even fertilizing the eggs from the other female, he's just "confused" and guarding them instead of the eggs he keeps going over to fertilize. He won't let the smaller female in the first pics lay eggs in his presence; the small female keeps trying to get him to spawn with her but he always chases her off. She lays her eggs on the leaf when the male goes over to the other side of the sword to fertilize the better hidden eggs.... Drama drama drama!


----------



## @[email protected]

wow. funny rams, lol.

congrats on the eggs, though i doubt they will survive to maturity.


----------



## lauraleellbp

You're probably right, Marko- plenty of fish in this tank to take turns distracting the parents while someone else swoops in and snags some eggs or wigglers...

This morning all the eggs that were on the exposed leaf are all gone. Not at all surprising.

However, the eggs on the hidden leaf are there, there are more of them, and the parents are diligently standing guard.

It will be interesting to see how well/how long they fare in my tank.


----------



## @[email protected]

i dont know about ram fry raising, but if you have a spare tank, i suggest removing a few when they hatch and raising them seperate if the can survive without their parents. that way at least a couple survive, and those you can be sure arent hormone-pumped and will die in under a year.


----------



## lauraleellbp

Thanks for the suggestion, but I've really no interest in raising rams right now (and I certainly don't want to cut up my sword plant just to get eggs out of the tank), so I'm just going to let nature take its course.


----------



## @[email protected]

yay, live food!!!
lol

i find a certian irony in the fact that the moment your greenwater is completely gone, THEN your fish decide to spawn.


----------



## lauraleellbp

Actually these guys have been spawning since just a few days after I got them... they've only been in the 90gal tank since after the GW cleared up b/c they were in QT till then. Horny little boogers! LOL


----------



## rasetsu

A little OT, but with the current price of gas, keep the Civic on hand. Timing belt and water pump should only set you back about $500. If it's still a worthy car (it's a Honda, no reason why it wouldn't be), then just get the minimum insurance on it and keep it around as a beater.


----------



## lauraleellbp

Actually the Civic is now my sister-in-law's car.


----------



## MikeS

Tank looks great. I love dwarf sag. That is going to look awesome shortly (when it fills in - won't take long).



And off topic, that is not a truck :flick:

This is a truck :icon_cool


----------



## lauraleellbp

LOL that thing is a beast! I'd give little old ladies heart attacks driving something like that around Naples! :icon_cool 

Actually, there's no dwarf sag in there- it's all E. tenellus "regular" and E. tenellus 'narrow' All the E. tenellus 'narrow' came out of my little 10gal tank- plus I gave and traded about 1/2 of my 'narrow' away! :icon_eek: That tank had 4 years' growth in it, though.

Since there's no CO2 on this tank it is all taking its time filling in...


----------



## MikeS

My bad.

I just pulled my 2 month growth of dwarf sag out of the tank to redo it. Started with about 15 plants. Now I have 10+ in my 28, replanted 35+ in my 210, and still have a good 50 if not more :eek5:.


----------



## lauraleellbp

That's a ton of sag!  Sounds like you'll be making some sales or trades in the S&S soon


----------



## MikeS

I would, but I really haven't dabbled with paypal. I thought about it, but.......


----------



## lauraleellbp

You could always do just trades if you don't want to use PayPal.

I've never had a problem with PayPal personally, though.


----------



## MikeS

My main concern with paypal is where does the money go? How do I get to it? Etc? With everyone using it today, I believe it's safe. Just have questions. And seeing I really haven't had a need for it, I have never looked that far into it.

Now swapping, that might be an idea. Thx.


----------



## lauraleellbp

It works pretty much the same as a debit card linked to a bank account. You can leave money in the PayPal account or you can pull it to or from your account of choice. You can also have PayPal linked to a credit card... IME it's pretty straightforward.


----------



## eyebeatbadgers

MikeS said:


> Tank looks great. I love dwarf sag. That is going to look awesome shortly (when it fills in - won't take long).
> 
> 
> 
> And off topic, that is not a truck :flick:
> 
> This is a truck :icon_cool


:thumbsup:
No this is 










And the tank's looking good Laura, to keep on subject


----------



## lauraleellbp

LOL What is it with guys and camo'd trucks?  I love the Ridgeline inset though :thumbsup: 

Back on topic... I have a VERY fat cory cat... and no GBR eggs left. I think the parents stopped guarding the eggs. I got home from running some errands and there was a cory with a bulging belly scavenging around the sword leaf where the eggs were, and the parents were scattered around the tank.

Feeding frozen foods seems to be a huge spawning trigger for them, and I fed Mysis tonight... we'll see if any of the other females come into spawning condition. There was one female last night that kept hanging close, was flirting with the male and was wearing some shimmery violet coloration... I'm going to keep an eye on her.


----------



## TheCryptKeeper

I see the vesuvious in the center of the tank.. it looks good.. now you just have to get it to grow like crazy!


----------



## lauraleellbp

*July 23, 08*

No real changes, just some new pics. Haven't seen any additional spawning since the last time.

First, the Apisto that's the King of the QT tank:


----------



## lauraleellbp

And just some shots of the tank and its inhabitants, in no order other than the order they were shot:


----------



## deleted_user_16

clear water is a site for sore eyes


----------



## lescarpentier

Is that a dead fish in #6?


----------



## CL

lescarpentier said:


> Is that a dead fish in #6?


Looks like a fat otto suckin' on the glass


----------



## ColeMan

it's hard to believe its the same tank without all that green in the way...so the cory ate the GBR eggs...wouldn't you have done the same thing? And while you were away, also - smart fish.


----------



## lauraleellbp

clwatkins10 said:


> Looks like a fat otto suckin' on the glass


Yeppers! :thumbsup: 

Anyone spot the TWO preggers Amanos? One you can't really tell she's berried, since you can only see her back. She's red and vividly striped though. The Big Girl is only seen in silhouette, she tends to stay back in the shadows b/c otherwise the Pristellas try and steal her eggs!


----------



## forddna

Looks nice!!!!!!! I just might be inspired to rescape now!


----------



## SeaSerpant

It looks great. It looks WAY better without the _green water._


----------



## lauraleellbp

Thanks, everyone! I'm really happy with it. I may never get any work done, since I want to spend all day staring into it... LOL

I honestly think if I'd done anything else for the GW besides just let it take its course that I'd still be dealing with it... of course, there's no way to know that for sure LOL

I'm very happy that the Purigen eliminated both the tannins and the yellow from the sulphur in my well water. :thumbsup: 

Now I've got to decide if I want to start dosing my water column or not...


----------



## TheCryptKeeper

how big are the amanos that you have?


----------



## lauraleellbp

Most of them are 2" The big berried one (in the silhouette) is gignormous- almost 4"! She dwarfs my Rams, which are the biggest fish in my tank (the orange male is about 3"). There's better pics of her further back in this thread.


----------



## lauraleellbp

*Sat. July 26, 08*

Well, the GBRs are at it again! So far they're defending the nest much better than they actually have in the past. They spawned sometime yesterday evening.





































The 'kleiner bar' is flowering AGAIN:










And here's some pics of the smaller berried Amano female:





































Big Mama is staying on the floor of the tank hidden in the shadows for the past few days. I wonder if that means she'll be dropping her eggs soon? They've all gone from green to very dark now. You can barely see her shadowy outline in these pics. She's dead center picture, framed between the driftwood, on the floor near the back wall of the tank.


----------



## @[email protected]

i love your rams. they have so much color, and the black spot is so much more defined and pronounced then it ever was on mine, what temp and ph do you keep them at?


----------



## lauraleellbp

My tank runs between 77-80 F depending on the time of day (I love my T5HOs- they're SOOOO much cooler than my old PC fixture!  )

I feed LOTS of frozen foods, and a big variety of foods overall. I really think this is a big part. Plus it's the rainy season, and I'm in a subtropical climate, and that probably triggers them as well (the daily thunderstorms). They tend to spawn within a day or two of my topping off my tank or doing a water change (I topped it off 2 days ago).


----------



## mizu-chan

Congrats on the spawning!
Hopefully you can have some babies this time around :thumbsup:


----------



## @[email protected]

so thats it. the food. my temp was 1 degree lower (76F), but i fed mostly freeze-dried. 

why do you think the thunderstorms would do it? i dont see how that would affect the tank, other then quick flash of light. and anyone who has tried putting a flourecent bulb on a digital timer as opposed to an analouge one knows how easy you can make the bulb flash (and how it will do that the whole time it is off). you have to use a timer that has something that moves (like the spinning ones) that will physically disconnect the conducter.

the water change may help, to them its a river flooding.


----------



## lauraleellbp

GBRs do tend to like warmer water, part of why they're good discus tank-mates.

Thunderstorms cause barometric pressure changes, plus the addition of cool new water mimics the rainy season in the Amazon. Pretty common spawning triggers for many Amazonian species. The rains also wash lots of live foods into the rivers (insects, worms, etc); so all of this combined tells fish, "it's a good time to make babies!" 

Mizu- there are so many fish in this tank I'll be really surprised if I ever get any survivors, but I'll certainly be interested to see how far along the spawns make it each time. :thumbsup:


----------



## @[email protected]

if any fry make it you should rescue a couple (only like 3-10). with a 29 gal, 40 gal, and 90 gal, im sure you could set up a 10 gal to put 5 little fry into. and being in florida you dont need to keep food cultures, just some greenwater from the local pond for a week and then mosquitoe larvae from the same pond and then forzen bloodworms. 
i just hate such beautiful fish (their parents look great, and so will they, blood tells) become fish food.


----------



## Complexity

Congratulations! Maybe you'll get one or two smart babies that are able to avoid being eaten. This is pretty much how I do my pelvicachromis. Let them breed and then let nature take its course. When I had tanks long ago, some of the fry survived, but not so many that t overloaded the tank. It was actually fun!

I have one BGR, but I don't know if it's male or female. I've thought about getting it a partner once my tank is more stable.

How aggressive towards other fish do they get when they're breeding?


----------



## lauraleellbp

Thanks!  

They're really only aggressive towards the other GBRs. The female especially will run full tilt into any that come into her sight. As long as the other fish stay at least 6" away from the nest they totally ignore them. They usually only have to flare at them to send the tetras running LOL I've seen a few Otos take some nips though- the Otos aren't too happy about losing a whole leaf that they are used to grazing on and seem totally oblivious to the eggs and nesting going on, they keep getting too close for the GBRs' comfort LOL

I think I'm going to feed 2x a day for a while to try and keep the other fish full and see if that affects how long the GBRs can keep the nest going. I fed frozen mysis yesterday and this morning, I'll do flakes this evening.


----------



## lauraleellbp

Hmmm

I just noticed that same female that laid the eggs the male guarded last time is also showing a swollen purple belly, and keeps trying to entice the male away from the nest. It will be interesting if she can actually get him to spawn with her this time. So far he's been nipping into her side and pushing her some, but hasn't actually chased her off. He's spending time over on her side of the sword, though, and leaving the other female to guard the eggs...


----------



## Complexity

Naughty GBRs! :hihi:


----------



## lauraleellbp

LOL 

I think I need to start calling my kleiner bar the "Love Shack" or something. :icon_cool 

I took that pic of the sword flower last night... the stem on it has grown more than an inch since then! :icon_eek: And I've got a 2nd plantlet growing in now on the original flower stalk. The first plantlet has leaves 4-6" long now, and I keep having to pull the roots out of my sponge prefilter. It's interesting how some of the roots are red on top where they get direct light.


----------



## @[email protected]

yeah, even the plant itself is trying to mate. 

well, i think that that means you have a very healthy setup. congrats.


----------



## lauraleellbp

*Sun. 7/27/08*

No eggs left this morning.

The 2nd female is still very swollen and trying to entice the male to spawn with her, but the Alpha female is pretty protective of the male and chases her away any time she sees her. The male seems... noncommittal? Maybe he's scared of "baby mama drama" LOL


----------



## stephm

*Rena and driftwood*

I have been reading your posts and was hoping you would share your knowledge. 

You may have said this and I missed it but what media do you have in your Rena and where did you get that Great Driftwood package?

Thanks
Steph


----------



## lauraleellbp

In my Rena I have one chamber full of ceramic and BioStar biological media (I don't like the foam BioStars, actually, but they came with the filter and I didn't quite have enough leftover ceramic media to fill the compartment, so I combined the two.) I'm using lots of coarse and fine sponges (these are my favorite since they're great for both biological and mechanical filtration), I've got a Micron pad, and on both the very top and the very bottom of the media I've got Polyester floss that I change out about once a month (now that I'm using that sponge prefilter. Before that, I was needing to change out the Poly floss once every 2 weeks). I did have a bag of Purigen in the Rena, but I just threw it in my AquaClear HOB after the last regeneration b/c it's easier to see and get to.

My driftwood is Manzantia that I bought here on the forum from Badcopnofishtank here in the Swap n Shop. The wood in my tank is about 2/3 of one of his "Medium" packages- he sends out a TON of wood! LOL


----------



## fshfanatic

Laura, how close to Ocala (sp) are you?

The reason I am asking is because I am driving to visit my little sister and I have a 240 gallon tank, complete with stand, canopy and three Ocean Clear canisters and pump to drive it.

Would you be interested in taking on this monster?? Cost to you is a case of beer and a bottle of Kettle One.


----------



## lauraleellbp

OMG :icon_eek: 

Ocala's about 5 hours... and I bet it would fit in the back of my new truck... when are you coming? You're serious? I'll have to seriously work on my hubby to OK it, I'm at my "tank limit" ATM...


----------



## rekles75

Forget the hubby, I would drive from Washington State to Ocala for that deal.


----------



## TheCryptKeeper

lauraleellbp said:


> OMG :icon_eek:
> 
> Ocala's about 5 hours... and I bet it would fit in the back of my new truck... when are you coming? You're serious? I'll have to seriously work on my hubby to OK it, I'm at my "tank limit" ATM...



you are a woman... you can get what you want when you want it.. men are easily persuaded.. I don't want to hear excuses:icon_roll :icon_roll


----------



## Complexity

fshfanatic said:


> ...a 240 gallon tank, complete with stand, canopy and three Ocean Clear canisters and pump to drive it.
> 
> Would you be interested in taking on this monster?? Cost to you is a case of beer and a bottle of Kettle One.


OMG!! That is an incredible offer!

Tell the hubby if he doesn't go for it, you'll put him in it and feed him fish food for the next month!

What are the dimensions of a tank like that? Unbelievable. For FREE! Delivered at that! Wow!


----------



## forddna

So what are the dimensions of said 240g?? I sold Lauralee the 90g featured in this thread. I should get second shot at it. LOL

(I'm 1.5 hr from Ocala)


----------



## lauraleellbp

Torpedobarb said:


> you are a woman... you can get what you want when you want it.. men are easily persuaded.. I don't want to hear excuses:icon_roll :icon_roll


We each have "veto" power. I usually can get him to give in... but it can take a while (took 6 years on our first dog...) I PM'd him, but IDK where fsh went?


----------



## TheCryptKeeper

hell as much as those two play games with each other... he would probably show up and say.. damn.. I must of hit a big bump and it broke.. sorry :hihi:

my bad


----------



## lauraleellbp

Torpedobarb said:


> hell as much as those two play games with each other... he would probably show up and say.. damn.. I must of hit a big bump and it broke.. sorry :hihi:
> 
> my bad


No kidding! I'm totally still not sure he's serious, myself! I did tell him he's a putz earlier... ROFL


----------



## TheCryptKeeper

lauraleellbp said:


> We each have "veto" power. I usually can get him to give in... but it can take a while (took 6 years on our first dog...) I PM'd him, but IDK where fsh went?


you just need to have fsh drop it off.. and say to hubby.. wtf do you want me to do.. leave it outside? tell the guy who drove from arizona that you can't have it and take it with you?

I believe in... it is easier to ask for forgiveness than permission. I know it isn't permission.. but still..


----------



## CobraGuppy

thats an amazing deal!

I'm only close to 2 hours away from ocala ;o

j/k, my parents would kill me if they came home and saw a tank that size in the living room  or they would get a heat attack first...


----------



## TheCryptKeeper

lauraleellbp said:


> No kidding! I'm totally still not sure he's serious, myself! I did tell him he's a putz earlier... ROFL


holy sh*t.. you said putz! wow.. jr high days!


----------



## fshfanatic

The tank is 120" X 24" X 24" by 1" thick glass. Yes, it is on heavy SOB and it is actually 258.5 gallons. It has three Ocean Clear canisters, 1 Bio, 1 micron and 1 UV, the pump is "fairly" quiet, an pushes some 3000 GPH.

I am "giving" it away because it was given to me with the stipulation that I also had to give it away. 

If Laura doesnt want it or can't take it, the same offer is valid for anyone between Arizona and Ocala Florida. 

He is the deal. My sister said she would take it if I couldnt get rid of it. so it is coming with my one way or another.


----------



## TheCryptKeeper

CobraGuppy said:


> thats an amazing deal!
> 
> I'm only close to 2 hours away from ocala ;o
> 
> j/k, my parents would kill me if they came home and saw a tank that size in the living room  or they would get a heat attack first...



tell them it is a polish indoor pool!


----------



## TheCryptKeeper

wow.. put me in line!


----------



## forddna

fsh, keep me in line!!!!!! 

Is it drilled for overflows?


----------



## fshfanatic

It is drilled.


----------



## CL

man!!! That amazing deal just blew this thread up!


----------



## CobraGuppy

Torpedobarb said:


> tell them it is a polish indoor pool!


haha, fill it up and let them have a jacuzzi bath in it with the pumps running to make them forget about it.


----------



## lauraleellbp

OK I've got a couple of months to work on my hubby... I'll keep at it and keep y'all posted how it's going. 

I know just where in the house _*I *_want to put it... convincing him is quite another story... LOL


----------



## TheCryptKeeper

is it a basement location? that sob will be really heavy


----------



## lauraleellbp

Can't have basements in Florida, my house is an island already during the rainy season. I need to take and post some pictures of the swamp that is our backyard one of these days... LOL Concrete slab so weight won't be an issue.


----------



## TheCryptKeeper

there ya go.. I hope you get it.. and can't wait to see pics of it done


----------



## lauraleellbp

Meeee too, Ken!  

Turns out I was wrong about my Rams having formed a monogamous bond. Gigilo (he's definitely got a name now! LOL) is sharing his leaf with female #2 (the smallest female I was calling "interloper") and they're busy at it again... and this time he's fertilizing. I think the camera's out in my hubby's car, so pics will have to wait till tomorrow, if the eggs make it this time. There's a big Cory on the prowl who's pretty keen on getting to that caviar, the rams have to chase him off constantly.


----------



## lauraleellbp

Eggs were eaten this morning sometime between 10am and lunch... LOL


----------



## TheCryptKeeper

lauraleellbp said:


> Eggs were eaten this morning sometime between 10am and lunch... LOL


umm... aren't eggs breakfast food anyway?


----------



## lauraleellbp

LOL

I think one of the other females had caviar for brunch.


----------



## nate_mcnasty

are you trying to breed them? you could take the eggs out of the tank when you see them


----------



## TheCryptKeeper

lauraleellbp said:


> LOL
> 
> I think one of the other females had caviar for brunch.


your fish are spoiled!


----------



## lauraleellbp

Here we go again!

This is the 3rd female in I believe as many weeks. Seems like he's rotating through the females pretty regularly. There's only one that I don't think I've seen him spawn with, but it's also a little hard to tell them apart. There's 2 sets of females that look very much alike- two that are more blue in coloration and 2 that are more yellow. Seems like each female is getting about 2 weeks "off" between spawnings. I'd say this Gigilo has his "system" all worked out! :icon_roll


----------



## CL

man, and to think I almost bought those exact fish


----------



## lauraleellbp

I'm going to ask Rich where he got them next time I'm in. I bet he might have got them at www.Oddballfish.com though- they're based near Tampa, and I hear great things about their Ram stock.


----------



## Church

Oddballfish is in Gibsonton, I think. I might be wrong though.


----------



## lauraleellbp

So by this afternoon, the eggs once again were gone.

I took the opportunity to do some much-needed tank maintenance, putting in some new plants, giving the kleiner bar a major trim (hopefully this won't throw the new flower off), and doing a 25% water change (first on in I believe 2 months?)

I have a feeling I'll have eggs again by tomorrw, the male and the other blue female have gotten very territorial about the sword again since the water change.

The subdominant male also has finally staked out a territory of his own on the far side of the driftwood, in the corner of the tank with all the E. angustifolius.

I'll post some pics shortly.


----------



## lauraleellbp

So here's a trip around the tank:

E. 'kleiner bar,' once again, the camera just does not do justice to the color on this sword!









I still am not satsified with this corner of the tank, but I'm working on it









I've cut off the biggetst swordlet, so here's the smaller one, showing also some submersed flowers









And here's the newest flower stalk. I think it took about 2 weeks for the last one to flower?









I've given up on red root floater in this tank. Just kept getting pushed under with the AquaClear HOB. I also made some major headway getting most of the duckweed out of the tank. I know it will be back, but at least I made progress for now *sigh* Here's some of the Salvinia that's actually working really well now, and I love the pretty roots









New Ranunculus









I moved my L. repens in the far left corner of the tank, where it gets light now that the sword was trimmed back. It's looking to me like the new leaves coming in on the Kleiner bar are staying shorter than the leaves it arrived with, so I'm thinking I'm going to need some tall background plants behind the sword.









Bacopa caroliniana is growing splendidly, putting on at least an inch a week. It's getting time for another trim.










I just love, love, love E. angustifolius 'vesuvius' I only wish that it would start sending out runners for me? I've gotten new leaves, but no runners so far









E. tenellus 'narrow' continues to do well, but VERY slow at filling in









The E. africanus are getting bigger









I believe the Hydrocoytle would take over the entire tank if I let it, this stuff just loves my tank :biggrin: 









The E. tenellus "regular" is finally starting to grow tall instead of laterally. I think every single old leaf melted away, and this is all new growth. You can also see the new Ludwigia 'cuba' planted behind the stargrass. I doubt that it will survive in my no-CO2 low light tank, but it doesn't hurt to try. It's quite a stunning plant, and I like the color it adds to this corner.









A different angle on the L. 'cuba'









E. angustifolius has filled in really well also. I just hope that the new leaves will start getting tall, the only tall leaves are the original growth from when the plant was shipped to me. You can also see one of the fat Otos hiding in the leaves. :biggrin: 









And here's the view from the side









Around to the front


















Both berried Amano females









Probably my only surviving RCS in this tank, an adult female


----------



## mizu-chan

Tank is looking great as usual. Your Amano never cease to amaze me.


----------



## midazolam

lauraleellbp said:


> This tank has the only pics of E. africanus I can locate ATM, they're in the back (I'm buying them from this owner, I REALLY like this tank  ):


I really enjoyed reading your thread and seeing your tank progress. Yous hould go back through and read from the beginning for yourself, if you haven't. 

With this in mind, do you recall who the owner of the lovely tank above is? Thanks so much!


----------



## lauraleellbp

Thanks, mizu-chan and midazolam :biggrin: 

He's a member over on APC, I'll have to look up the correct spelling of his name, but something along the lines of G. Ghanzi?


----------



## ZooTycoonMaster

I actually read the whole journal on Tropical Fish Hobbyist before I found out it was on here:hihi:

Do you know how old the Sword was when you bought it? And after you bought it, how long did it take to flower?

Nice looking tank! I wish I could try out some Ludwigia Cuba...but it grows WAAAY too wide for a 10 gallon:hihi:


----------



## Karackle

Tank is looking beautiful!  I spent an hour+ reading your journal at TFH and really enjoyed it! Never thought to look here for a place to comment though!  Anyway, looks lovely and healthy and lush!: )


----------



## lauraleellbp

Thanks karakle  

My journal over on TFH is the "original" journal, then a month or two later I ended up starting this one, and so now I am running 2 "parallel" journals... They're similar, but also different, and I definitely do go back read them through them both from time to time... I find that encouraging.  

ZTM- This sword passed to me through god91234, who got it from jaidexl, who got it from TexGal... and that's as far back as I know. I didn't ask Tex who she got it from or how long she had it, but maybe she'll chime in? It flowered the first time within a month of me adding Medicineman's WonderGro fert tabs (Orlando sells them at GLA). :thumbsup:


----------



## CL

Your tank has improved greatly!  Your rams are beautiful


----------



## Karackle

Oh i forgot to ask, how'd you finally get rid of the GW? Or did it just need to run it's course?


----------



## lauraleellbp

It just ran its course. Took about 6-8 weeks. The water change I did Wednesday was the first water change I'd done since several weeks before the GW ended, so stopping the frequent water changes may have helped.


----------



## macclellan

lauraleellbp said:


> ZTM- This sword passed to me through god91234, who got it from jaidexl, who got it from TexGal...


Are you sure Jaide got it from TexGal? If that's the sword that was in his 60g, then he got it as freebie when it was wee-little thing from me! :fish: 
It was one of the many chitlins my monster K.Bar threw off.


----------



## lauraleellbp

Wasn't that one a Red Rubin?

Or maybe god91234 got it directly from TexGal... and I'm the one who got the 'kleiner bar' and the Red Rubin confused... LOL but I do know this one came from TexGal b/c I saw pics of it in her tank journal on APC, plus they talked about how it is the same one in my thread here, back a few pages ago... LOL

It would be pretty funny if TexGal got it through you...


----------



## CL

lauraleellbp said:


> Wasn't that one a Red Rubin?
> 
> Or maybe god91234 got it directly from TexGal... and I'm the one who got the 'kleiner bar' and the Red Rubin confused... LOL but I do know this one came from TexGal b/c I saw pics of it in her tank journal on APC, plus they talked about how it is the same one in my thread here, back a few pages ago... LOL
> 
> It would be pretty funny if TexGal got it through you...


Lol, talk about pass the plant


----------



## macclellan

lauraleellbp said:


> Wasn't that one a Red Rubin?
> 
> Or maybe god91234 got it directly from TexGal... and I'm the one who got the 'kleiner bar' and the Red Rubin confused... LOL but I do know this one came from TexGal b/c I saw pics of it in her tank journal on APC, plus they talked about how it is the same one in my thread here, back a few pages ago... LOL
> 
> It would be pretty funny if TexGal got it through you...


OK. I can't remember if what I sent him was a Kleiner or a Red Rubin, or if I could even tell the difference...they are all hybrids anyways. I had about 7 dwarf swords that were reddish in that tank. He said he sent the sword I sent him to Kentucky...Either way, it/they sure got around!!!


----------



## lauraleellbp

Speaking of swords, my Red Devil, Aquafluer, and Variagated swords from Aaron are all in!  I can't wait to get to my 46gal setup so I can get them all planted in their new homes... 

Oh, I also realized I forgot to post the updated FTSs from the other day, so here they are:


----------



## CL

maaannnnn... I wanna big tank  lol


----------



## Tex Gal

lauraleellbp said:


> ZTM- This sword passed to me through god91234, who got it from jaidexl, who got it from TexGal... and that's as far back as I know. I didn't ask Tex who she got it from or how long she had it, but maybe she'll chime in? It flowered the first time within a month of me adding Medicineman's WonderGro fert tabs (Orlando sells them at GLA). :thumbsup:


Sorry I didn't see this question before. My computer was down for quite a while with some remodeling I had going on. I got the original plant from Arizona Aquatic Gardens, on 10/16/2007. It will be due for it's 1st b-day party soon!







It's such a pretty plant. I sold four or five babies from it. I don't remember who I gave the original plant to. Not sure it this is the original or a baby.


----------



## TheCryptKeeper

wow Laura... tank is look great... now we just need it to fill in!


----------



## lauraleellbp

Thanks, Ken. I like the height of the Bacopa so much that I decided I didn't want to trim it this time... so instead I went ahead and ordered another dozen or so stems to add in. :smile: 

TexGal- whether it was the "original" or a "baby"- you're at least a grandma! :hihi: I've got my very first plant from this tank up for sale in the S&S now- the bigger of the 2 babies I've gotten so far from this "mama." 

The 2nd flower stem has now started blooming, too. :fish:


----------



## god91234

its the the original, i got it and some star grass express'ed cause the star grass i was getting from everyone was just melting as soon as it got in my tank, so i felt like it was a good idea... i thought it would fit in my tank but it was alot :icon_eek: bigger than i thought so i passed it... and than here we are... THE MYTH OF THE SWORD! lol ... how is the star grass and RRF doing that i sent u?


Tex Gal said:


> Sorry I didn't see this question before. My computer was down for quite a while with some remodeling I had going on. I got the original plant from Arizona Aquatic Gardens, on 10/16/2007. It will be due for it's 1st b-day party soon!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's such a pretty plant. I sold four or five babies from it. I don't remember who I gave the original plant to. Not sure it this is the original or a baby.


----------



## deleted_user_16

trust me, sometimes stargrass just doesnt like peoples tanks. it took me 4 times to get a stargrass to like my tank, about 25 bucks spent trying to find. if it melts, shouldnt be a problem, the last one that i got came with black leaves, but havd a little bright green leaves, so i left it, now i have super bright green stargrass everywhere.


----------



## Karackle

Tank continues to look wonderful! I have to say, I really like your driftwood arrangement, it almost looks alive, with that one branch that runs almost the length of your tank and then curls upward, it looks like it's going to try and take over! :hihi: I think it's got a really neat look to it, and looks especially great with the plants that have growin in around and through it


----------



## lauraleellbp

Thanks karakle! :icon_cool 

god- between the stargrass u sent and what I got from maclellan I have about a half dozen stems that are doing OK- nice and green, but they sure don't grow fast in low light! lol I'm really surprised that the L. 'cuba' seems to be adjusting to low light and no nutrients in the water column much better than the stargrass ever did; at least, so far?

The RRF I finally gave up on in this tank. It grows great and put off tons of little plantlets- but with the HOB I just couldn't keep it on the surface, it kept getting pushed down and tangled up in the plants and driftwood. So I moved it all to my QT tank for the time being. I do really like it so hopefully it will do better in there.


----------



## lauraleellbp

*Wed. 8/13/08*

New arrivals; 2 beautiful Gold Nugget plecos plus a surprise albino long-finned BN pleco are the newest additions to my QT tank. Two weeks, and then the Gold Nuggets will go join the Clown pleco in the big tank!  

I was going to get my Cardinal tetras this week... but just realized that I don't want to mix new fish in QT. Soooo I'll either have to take my Synod cat in as a trade-in to free up the 46gal to QT some Cardinals, or wait.

If I wait, I could go ahead and get the media I need to set up the Eheim 2217, plus some other odds and ends that I need...


----------



## CL

Cant wait to see some cards in there! They will be sweet


----------



## Complexity

I love my cardinals! Their blue color just glows in the tank!

Good that you're waiting on the cardinals. No reason to rush. You'll enjoy them just that much more when you get to have that "new fish" excitement when you do get them.


----------



## lauraleellbp

*Tues 8/20/08*

Just a quick update.

Plecos have all adjusted well to the QT tank. I totally keep forgetting to get some pics, but they're very lovely. :biggrin: I plan on moving them over to the 90gal late next week, so I'll start doing water changes with water from the main tank on Tuesday.

Yesterday Hurricane Fay went through. The eye passed over our house between 6-7am. Hubby's laptop got fried and lots of flooding and downed tree branches and a few trees (didn't loose any at our house) but that's it for our area. She strengthened after passing over us though and is now slamming up the East coast.

My GBRs of course spawned yesterday afternoon. One of the blue females this time.

Sword stalk is putting out new kleiner bar leaves, so I'll have at least 2 and I think 3 new plantlets soon. :biggrin: 

I need to spend some time in there planting all the new Bacopa that's floating since it came in last week before we leave for CA tomorrow... the Rams won't be happy, but oh well! LOL


----------



## Complexity

What? No pictures?! I think Ken needs to get you for this! :icon_lol:

Sorry to hear about Fay and your hubby's laptop, but thank goodness your property didn't seem to suffer much.

Now bring on those pictures! Not even a hurricane can excuse you!


----------



## TheCryptKeeper




----------



## lauraleellbp

OK, here's some pics, just before the Goldies go into the 90gal (probably tomorrow, I need to do some maintenance in the tank first.):




























The little BN just will NOT stop moving, so my pics are all pretty lousy LOL



















Here's with the flash


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## Karackle

All 3 Plecos are beautiful! They'll be such a nice addition to your tank!  Glad they're doing well and will be introduced to their new home soon!


----------



## lauraleellbp

So I just got finished with a pretty major Rescape, and also acclimated and added the Gold nugget plecos into the 90gal.



















Checking out one of the newcomers:









Looks like these 2 are gearing up to spawn already


















Newest Kleiner bar swordets









E. africanus and E. angustifolius 'vesuvius'









New left side of tank









New right side of tank









FTSs


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## Ozymandias

those plecos look amazing especially next to the GBR


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## macclellan

Nice Nuggies!


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## ZooTycoonMaster

Wow I like it! Nice Plecos as well!

How much do you sell the baby Swords for?


----------



## lauraleellbp

Thanks, guys. :biggrin: 



ZooTycoonMaster said:


> Wow I like it! Nice Plecos as well!
> 
> How much do you sell the baby Swords for?


Unfortunately both of those are spoken for ATM, ZTM. I sold one previously for $10 shipped, though.


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## nate_mcnasty

the tank is looking good 
some corkscrew val or the sword would look cool by the big sword

can wait to see it fill in


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## @[email protected]

i like it (the tank).

the plecs look cool.


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## Karackle

Tank looks great! And the plecos look happy and pretty!


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## Syris

Wow nice plecos.
Love the hardscape on the tank too.


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## lauraleellbp

Quick update,

At least one of the new plecos has been munching on my kleiner bar. :icon_frow I've started throwing some Hikari catfish wafers in the tank at lights out, and that does seem to have slowed it down some, though the jury is still out...

I also made it up to Boardroom today and picked up 35 Cardinal tetras. They're acclimating in a bucket right now, and will soon go into my 29gal QT tank for a minimum of 2 weeks... before COMPLETING the stocking of my 90gal!!! :biggrin: 

After that, I start the process of converting my 29gal into an Asian-themed tank, and then the 46gal will go planted... and I'm also thinking of setting back up my 10gal RCS colony at work... :biggrin:


----------



## cah925

jealous of those plecos. I've wanted one for a while but haven't found any yet.


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## lauraleellbp

Those came from RMC here on the forum, and are definitely the healthiest and have the best color that I've ever seen! I'm really happy with them (just hope I can convice them to stay away from my sword...)

I saw some more today at my LFS, and these look soooo much nicer! :biggrin:


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## lauraleellbp

The Cardinals colored up nicely soon after being moved into the new tank, and even gobbled up some frozen Cyclop-eeze in the QT tank. There are a few that I'll need to keep an eye on- one has a very large cyst-looking thing above his tail and coloration is very off. I've debated euthanizing him right off the bat, but decided I'm going to just wait and see. I took all of the substrate out of the QT tank in preparation for the Cardinals; based on past experience I'm pretty much expecting some ich and/or fungus to rear its ugly head...

Surprise, surprise, the male GBR and one of his females are "flirting" in the 90gal. I'm positive it's all the frozen foods I feed.

The jumbo female Amano's eggs hatched today, and she was surrounded by a cloud of Pristella tetras chowing down on the Zoes as she expelled them from her swimmerettes. 

The Pristellas all have HUGE bellies! I just noticed how large some of them have gotten; a few of the Pristellas are now just as big as the GBRs!


----------



## lauraleellbp

And here's some pics:

New Cardinals in QT


















Chewed-up sword









Ths Prime Suspects

















Latest FTS. I'm thinking of trying L. 'cuba' again, this time in the background between the driftwood and the sword (the last ones didn't make it, between nutrient deficiency and my leaving the lights off over the Labor Day weekend...)









Schooling Pristellas (blurry b/c they just won't hold still for anything, LOL)



















Clown pleco










Amano Junction










Newest swordlets










And last but not least, GBRs

The 2 blue females










Both blue females with the male










And the latest "happy couple"


----------



## Dkle

Man, the rams look spectacular. Do you keep them in soft acidic water at all?


----------



## lauraleellbp

Not really. My tap (well) water pH runs around 7.4, the tank usually drops down to about 7.2. It's been a long time since I tested kH and gH, but they were moderate last I checked (I've got new tests on the way, actually...)


----------



## lauraleellbp

Oh- I forgot to mention- I asked Rich @ Boardroom today where he got the GBRs. He said that he got them from a guy who got them in Tampa, which leaves me about 90% sure they came from Oddball.


----------



## Dkle

Cool! I love rams; but keep reading that they don't do well and don't last long in hard water like my tap water. It's good to see them so healthy in not-optimal water conditions.


----------



## Karackle

Looking great, can't believe how big the pristella's got! Those cardinals are looking nice and brightly colored too, can't wait to see them in the tank!


----------



## lauraleellbp

It all depends on your stock. These were captive-bred, and I'm reasonably sure they were even captive-bred in Tampa, which would put them raised in water pretty similar to mine.

If they were wild-caught stock, I'd probably have to keep them in RO water, or have acclimated them very, very slowly (over several weeks at least) to my water.

If you get stock from Asia, these tend to be injected with hormones (to make them color up early and allow the distributors to sell them at an earlier age)- this really weakens the fish and usually shortens their lifespans.


----------



## lauraleellbp

36+ hours and I haven't lost any of the Cardinals. I'm somewhat surprised, especially based on the looks of a few, but after feeding tonight they all showed full bellies so that's a really good sign. I'll likely dose some Melafix once my DrF&S order comes in due to the number of fins that are in poor condition, as well as that weird cyst-looking thing near the tail of one of the tetras.

I'm debating worming the entire 90gal tank after I move the Cardinals in. I know several LT hobbyists/breeders who worm every 6 months.  With the number of WC fish in my tank, I'm thinking this is probably a good idea.

GBRs haven't spawned yet that I can tell, but looks like the Plecos have scared the male away from the kleiner bar for the time being; he's excavated out a little nesting site in the far left corner of the tank underneath one of the E. africanus. I don't see that working with either the Plecos (one in particular really likes that corner) or all the MTS in the tank. We'll see.


----------



## forddna

WC fish?


----------



## jaidexl

The tank is looking good. Have you tried Limnophila aromatica in there? It's a fairly easier alternative to L. cuba, IMO.


----------



## Karackle

I believe WC = Wild Caught? (well that was the assumption I made, but i've been wrong before :tongue 

Glad to hear there's no die-off so far and that everyone is eating! Out of curiosity, what do you use to worm your tanks? I think worms are what got my fish once even when my tank seemed healthy so I'm intrigued by the semi-annual worming idea, I don't see how it could hurt, so I'm curious what you use to do it? 

And I hope the cardinals continue to do well!


----------



## Tex Gal

Hey girl! Stick some cucumber slices in there with your pleco. They love them. You don't have to blanch or anything. Mine prefer cukes to zuchini and it's easier because I don't have to blanch.


----------



## lauraleellbp

Yes, WC = Wild Caught versus CB = Captive Bred, sorry! 

No, Jaide, I haven't tried Limno. You think I'd have better chances with it than L. 'cuba'? I wasn't expecting the L. 'cuba' at all, and so didnt' have any ferts at all. But I really fell in love with it, so I do want to try it again. If it doesn't do well in this tank, I'll probably try it in my 46gal once I get it going planted. I may try Limno at that point in the 90 if the 'Cuba' doesn't work out the 2nd time around, either. 

So far still no Cardinal deaths. Still the same fish I'm concerned about. They don't seem any worse, but they don't seem much better, either.

Karakle, I haven't wormed them to date, and I'm actually taking a bit of a poll over on TFH to see how many ppl follow this practice, and what they use- I'll post back over here the results if you're interested. 

Tex, we're out of cukes ATM (since I don't like them, personally) but I'll be sure to pick some up at the grocery store this week. My hubby will like that, he does like them.  Do you use a clip or weight to keep yours on the bottom?


----------



## Karackle

Glad to hear there's still no cardinal deaths, but sorry to hear the few that aren't looking so hot aren't starting to look better. I think the fact that they're still alive is probably a good sign though and means they're well cared for, so good luck with them! And yes, I'd definitely be interested to see the results of your poll about worming! You've sparked my curiosity!


----------



## Tex Gal

I slice my cukes in thick circles and stick them on a metal skewer. Then I stick the skewer vertically into the soil. Here's an old px where you can see it. Works great!


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## lauraleellbp

Kara, so far it doesn't look like many do. "...a combo of Prazil and Metronidazole, and up the temp a bit" is the only response/suggestion so far. Here's the thread if you want to follow along http://forums.tfhmagazine.com/viewtopic.php?f=87&t=24495

Tex- that's an awesome idea, and we have lots of those skewers! (Now to swipe one when my hubby isn't looking.... LOL)


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## jaidexl

You all talking about camallanus nematodes? Levamisol is the only way for me. :thumbsup:


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## jaidexl

lauraleellbp said:


> No, Jaide, I haven't tried Limno. You think I'd have better chances with it than L. 'cuba'?


For a person like me, it is. IME it's much more resilient and forgiving of a little negligence w/ ferts and CO2. I used to be all crazy about L vert 'cuba', now L aromatica is more of a favorite plant for me than that, even though I can grow Cuba pretty well now, apparently. I'm going to try and make a nice stand out of the stem you gave me, which today is branching off about 6 times, and if it doesn't work out I'll probably never mess with it again.


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## Jeff5614

I have just the opposite trouble. I can't get L aromatica going very well at all. L cuba, on the other hand, I'm having to trim at least once a week and sometimes twice. It's eating me out of house and home, lol. Bad pic but you get the idea.


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## lauraleellbp

Are you running CO2 and/or dosing ferts, Jeff?


----------



## Jeff5614

I do both. My CO2 is around 30 pmm based on a dropchecker and I dose following EI.


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## lauraleellbp

So those results aren't likely to transfer over to my almost nutrient-free water column and no CO2 dosing. 

Your tank looks fabulous though! :thumbsup:


----------



## Jeff5614

Oh, I forgot you weren't using CO2, sorry. If I had I'd have kept my mouth shut and thanks for the compliment.

Now I'm wondering if L aromatica will grow without CO2 and ferts. It should be interesting to see.


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## lauraleellbp

I haven't tried it, but I doubt that it would... I was actually surprised that the L.'cuba' did as well as it did. I think if I hadn't gone away for the weekend, and had actually dosed some ferts, it might have done OK. Most of the stems had put down some nice root systems before I pulled them up.


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## jaidexl

For some reason I thought you were at least doing DIY. Then I would def say goooood luck w/ the Cuba  

I don't know about L aromatica either, but mine survived for a while after letting my 30gl go low maintenance, no DIY recharge. That tank had about 23 tetras, so maybe a lot of fish helps. I can't really remember if it was growing or just surviving at that point. After I started floating a hoard of manzanita, which blocked most light out, is when it finally started to die off, then I moved the last two stems to the 65gl to propagate.


----------



## lauraleellbp

You're probably right, but I'm still gonna try it again- ya never know. 

Totally unrelated note; my massive red Amano has molted and is already berried up again! The other female still has not released her zoes. I need to go back and look at how long it's been since I first noticed them berried, but I'm thinking more along the lines of 2 months, versus one month as some people were saying about Amanos carrying over in the shrimp forum.


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## lauraleellbp

I made the decision to start treating the Cardinals with Pimafix and Melafix today. (Sidenote- I actually really love the smell of both ) I removed both the carbon and the ceramic media from the AquaClear HOB.

2 tetras have one white spot each on their fins (slight possibility of ich or fungus, but I actually think it's ray damage), and a few others' scales look rough (not like dropsy, just a few scales pulled up, probably from rough handling/netting at some point). Also the one that had a cyst has an area that still looks raw. 

There are 2 fish that look excessively skinny, though both are eating and seem to have put on a bit of weight over the past week. I've been feeding 2x a day every few days to encourage them to put on some meat. One of them seems to struggle a bit to swim properly (he's the one with off coloration) I suspect he's got some internal damage- looks like he may be bruised, even.

I'm going to dose both daily per the directions for 3 days then do a 25% water change and reassess.

Hopefully being pro-active will nip these issues in the bud.

Up till now I've been doing 20% PWC every few days to get them acclimated to my water parameters as well as keep up the water quality. I still have not lost any fish to date, which is the exception from my experience with Cardinals.

To date I have never lost a fish that I purchased at Boardroom Aquatics. You go, Rich!!! :thumbsup:


----------



## lauraleellbp

OK, it just took quite a bit of searching to come up with this, so I'm posting it here for easy reference later when I start cycling the AquaSoil in my 29gal:

Silane (Ken) on shrimpnow.com who is one of the most respected breeders of CRS posted this
"Fastest Cycle time with ADA Amoniza *Aquasoil* for me. 

Recently just cycle a new tank with ADAsoil within 1 week, ammonia was very near 0. After 11 days, nitrate was 5ppm.

What I did was:
Day 0 - add in Adasoil and water
Day 1 - change near 100% water
Day 1.5 - change near 100% water
Day 2 - change near 100% water
Day 2.5 - change near 100% water
Day 2.5 - add in water that was used to wash a matured filter wool and sponge
Day 4 - start to see ammonia goes down and nitrate raising
Day 6 - ammonia at 0.25ppm and nitrate 20ppm did a water near 100% water change, parameter just after WC: ammonia is very near 0, nitrite 0 and nitrate is less than 5ppm
Day 7 - ammonia is very very close to 0, I introduce my CRS.
Day 8 - ammonia is 0.
Day 11- ammonia is 0, nitrate is 5ppm. 

I used de-chlorinated water to prevent the beneficial bacteria from being killed."


----------



## jaidexl

Wow, that stuff really does release mega ammonia with all those 100%s from the get-go!

I like his style, that's how I do my cycles but I use my nasty tap water in place of AS (2ppm amm, >5ppm nI & nA), and obviously I don't need the big water changes. And instead of using rinse water I just put an established canister on the tank, but essentially it's the same quick cycle process.

You sure it's ADA Amazonia and not ADA Ammonia??


----------



## lauraleellbp

Yeah, I wish he'd tested/reported his levels along the way. I've heard some ppl report over 8.0 ppm!! :icon_eek: Especially with the II versus the I. I'll be interested in seeing how it turns out.

I'm strongly considering starting out emersed, however- so that will definitely impact things.


----------



## @[email protected]

wow, where do you get your fish?
i think that for animals that arent capable of regeneration (including fish), buying up front in person at the pet store is the way to go. IME its better to pay more for the fish, and then get healthy fish since you can see the tanks and look at each fish as it is netted for signs of health.


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## lauraleellbp

I've bought most of them from Boardroom Aquatics in Fort Myers. To date, I've bought over 100 fish from there without a SINGLE loss! :icon_eek: To me, that's unheard of, especially compared to all the LFSs in Naples. A good LFS is worth its weight in gold IMO. :thumbsup:


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## jaidexl

Rich at Boardroom quarantines all his fish, and doesn't sell anything unhealthy. I have never seen a dead fish in one of his tanks in the 4 or 5 yrs I've gone there. A few sick ones in the little quarantine tanks but that's it. Ich tanks get lights out and "Ich" written on them with a black marker. He has a hidden back room with more tanks than the front of the store, all QTs. If you're in there enough you get to go in the back and pick things off before they're up for sale, "sold as is" though. :thumbsup:


----------



## lauraleellbp

Jaide, have you been to the new LFS in North Naples that Damien found? I haven't figured out where it is yet.


----------



## jaidexl

I just wish he would get more variety, he has a small space and tends to hang with certain species forever.



lauraleellbp said:


> Jaide, have you been to the new LFS in North Naples that Damien found? I haven't figured out where it is yet.


Artistik Aquariums is the only one I know of around there and it's all SW/reef. They sell Sunlight Supply Tek Lights, that's about all I want from there, corals bore me now.


----------



## lauraleellbp

That must be why I've never noticed it, since I don't have any SW tanks. I MIGHT do a seahorse tank someday... maybe.

I think Boardroom has better selection than all the stores in Naples. Are there other LFSs in Ft Myers that have better selection than Boardroom?


----------



## lauraleellbp

Planted the stargrass and moved the Bacopa a bit, and did a little tank maintenance. No major changes, but here's some updated pics. I worked really hard trying to get a good shot of the Pristellas, but they won't HOLD STILL!!! lol They really are lovely fish, and great schoolers.



















Jumbo Amano female is so big she can carry off and hog sinking wafers all to herself, the little pig! :icon_roll









This Amano is the Wanna Be


----------



## jaidexl

The plant mass looks very natural, love those tetras.

Perky Pets on MLK is better about ordering stuff, IME so far anyway. I've ordered ten glass bloodfins twice, and ten panda cories once (that I didn't end up taking, they didn't care) and they got them fast both times. Other than those few visits, I don't have many great experiences around here, probably why I don't have a whole lot of fish. 

Always worth calling PP to see if they can order something, though. I tested their water and it's liquid rock for some reason, so I make sure to do lengthy acclimations over to my soft water.


----------



## god91234

jaidexl said:


> Rich at Boardroom quarantines all his fish, and doesn't sell anything unhealthy. I have never seen a dead fish in one of his tanks in the 4 or 5 yrs I've gone there. A few sick ones in the little quarantine tanks but that's it. Ich tanks get lights out and "Ich" written on them with a black marker. He has a hidden back room with more tanks than the front of the store, all QTs. If you're in there enough you get to go in the back and pick things off before they're up for sale, "sold as is" though. :thumbsup:


 i have been going there since i was like 16... they are great, all ways fair and full of info. Rich has told me where to collect things that i was looking for locally. and the people that work there are supper nice. i give them clippings all the time that i am selling if they ask... witch is nice cause than i get it spread it around locally witch is always a plus. if u ever want any thing just ask them if they can get it for u they will . +1 for broad room


----------



## lauraleellbp

Yeah, Rich told me you bring in "extra" plants to him all the time- I saw some E. 'vesuvius' there and figured it had to have come from you. 

I've never been to Perky Pets, I might have to hunt that one down... I was actually thinking of getting some Panda cories...


----------



## Karackle

LauraLee - sorry this is so delayed but thanks for the info, good to know, I guess it sounds like it's not a super popular practice though eh? I'll take a look at the thread you linked me to though, thanks!  

Glad to hear the cardinals are still alive though and for the most part doing well, I hope you successfully nip in the bud whatever might be happening!  Can't wait to see them in the tank, and those Pristellas are gorgeous, can tell that even in the fuzzy pics


----------



## lauraleellbp

Thanks, Kara 

36 hours after first medicating the tank, I just did a very close inspection of the Cardinals. (Made a little easier by them now associating me with food; so as long as I don't move quickly they all swim over to "investigate" LOL) There are 4 "fish of concern":

The 2 with spots on their fins look to be improving. I do now think that they had some ray damage that was becoming fungused/infected- the spot on the tail of one has turned pinkish since I began medicating the tank. I'm taking this as a good sign, a response to medication (hopefully).

The one that looks "bruised" I really have doubts about. He swims rather awkwardly and has blackened areas on his body. He's eating and putting on some weight, and does a good job of keeping up with the rest of the school, but his sides look "dented" and I think he's probably got some internal injuries. This is the fish that I've strongly considered euthanizing, and if he takes a turn for the worse, I will.

The last one, with the "cyst," has improved the most. The raw area has shrunk since yesterday- I think also responding to the medication.

None of these guys are over 1" long ATM... looking at them this closely makes my eyes hurt! :icon_eek:


----------



## lauraleellbp

Continuing the Melafix and Pimafix. Four days in, and I don't see any real change today from yesterday. Fish all remain active, good color, eating well. I continue to feed 2x/day. They eat noticibly less at the 2nd feeding.

I didn't know for sure if the Mela/Pima combo would have any impact on the snails in the tank; if anything, the pond snails are now breeding up a storm- I've seen them at it at least 2x today. :icon_roll Probably just coincidence, but it's actually the OPPOSITE of what I was kind of hoping for (can't stand pond snails). Oh well, they'll all go bye-bye when I take down the tank.

On the other hand, there was some Riccia in the tank that seems to be yellowing. Possibly also coincidence, but that doesn't hurt my feelings; Riccia isn't my favorite, either.


----------



## Tex Gal

Lauralee, you tank look great. I could see your tetras well. Glad you cardinals are doing better! Looks like you have another sword baby or two! Your grass if filling in well in the front. I love you wood arrangement.


----------



## lauraleellbp

Thanks, Tex! 

OMG I took almost 100 pics of those wiggly Pristellas, and those were the BEST of the lot!! LOL My camera sucks. Does great with landscapes, actually, but not so great with closeups, and you can forget anything moving...

QT Update:

The Cardinals actually look better today, especially the "bruised" one. The indentations on the body seem to have filled in some, and the darker areas on the sides have faded considerably. He was easy to pick out before b/c his sides were so "dented" that the neon line appeared crooked, but today it's almost straight!

The "cyst" near the tail of the other one has faded to a pinprick and is more white now than pink. It's healed up very nicely.

There are still a lot of ragged fins, and the 2 very skinny Cardinals are easy to pick out from the others, but I've watched both of them eat, they're eating well, and they don't have any issues keeping up with the rest of the school. They are active, and fins are not clamped.

I'm at the point where I'm debating what I will do come Saturday. The initial 2 week QT will be up. It's a bit of a judgment call, since I have had 4 fish in particular I've been concerned about. However, all have shown improvement over the last week and a half, and none of their issues seem to have spread- which makes me think their health issues are not contagious (with the possible exception of IPs...)

I think I'm going to do one more day of Pimafix and Melafix, and then tomorrow do a 25% water change, and stop dosing after today. I'll keep doing daily 25% water changes, replacing with water from the 90gal, and reassess on Saturday.

As things stand now, I think I'll release them from QT and add them to the 90gal Saturday unless something happens between now and then.


----------



## Saraja87

Love that grassy field, it'll look awesome once it fills in!


----------



## lauraleellbp

Thanks, Sara.  It's taken a long time for the E. tenellus "regular" to acclimate, but after 6 months (!) I've finally started seeing runners recently. The smaller E. tenellus 'narrow' started sending out runners very quickly. I'm guessing the difference is the 'narrow' came from one of my own tanks, so really had minimal acclimation. The "regular" had to adjust to all kinds of differences- especially being kept in a low tech, non-dosed tank LOL

I experimented today with feeding raw crushed garlic to the Cardinals. They would nibble a little, but I don't think much if any was eaten. Then I mixed in some flake food, giving the flakes a nice long time to soak up some garlic oil. Those went over pretty well. 

I did the same thing in my 90gal, with pretty much the same results. Turns out only the Cories would eat the plain raw garlic. The GBRs would grab it, but then spit it back out. 

My dogs of course were insanely curious, so I finally let them stick their nose in the little glass dish I used to mix the garlic and flake food. The expressions the beagle made after she got a good whiff were hilarious. :fish:

We have tons on raw garlic in the house. I think for the next few days I'm going to use the garlic press and our mortal and pestle to mix it in with flake food and feed all my fish. I've seen a bit of white stringy poop from the GBRs, and two of them seem to have lost some weight. I'm still investigating what actual medications I could feed or dose that would not risk harming the Amanos or MTS, and decided to give the old natural IP remedy a try.


----------



## eyebeatbadgers

you might try mixing the garlic in with scrambled eggs. My cardinals love some eggs 

p.s. when are you going to break down and set up a Co2 tank ???


----------



## lauraleellbp

That's not a bad idea. I was thinking of fixing eggs for brunch tomorrow... :thumbsup:

I don't have any plans for a CO2 tank. Don't want to fool with yeast and sugar mixes, and also don't want to spring for a pressurized setup. Maybe in a few years something will change my mind... but I really prefer tanks that evolve slowly and don't take as much work. I hate trimming and thinning.


----------



## Brilliant

Hehe one of those pics is mine! Im glad I am inspiring people...good luck with the tank keep up the good work.


----------



## lauraleellbp

Brilliant said:


> Hehe one of those pics is mine! Im glad I am inspiring people...good luck with the tank keep up the good work.


OK now, you can't just drop that little tidbit and run... which one?


----------



## lauraleellbp

Just noticed it, the GBRs are spawning again. They re-dug their little nest underneath the E. africanus. Sorry the pic is so dark, I didn't want to disturb them with the flash.


----------



## lauraleellbp

Didn't last long, by this morning the pit was abandoned. 










So, I gave them a little piece of slate and hid it behind the big sword. We'll see if they like that any better for the next time around.










Noticed the kleiner bar is flowering again. :biggrin: You can also see all the holey attentions from the Gold nugget plecos. I do think that they were really "side effects" from grazing on algae on the leaves. The grazing does seem to have slowed now that I make a point of throwing in catfish wafers every night.










Trimmed down the Stargrass while I was at it. This Stargrass was already acclimated to low light when I got it, and it seems to be taking fairly well so far. :biggrin: Bacopa is already about due for another trim (I'm having to trim it every 2 weeks, or else several stems reach the surface and start growing emersed. Hydrocoytle I trim about once a month to keep it lower, it also tries to reach up to the surface, though it doesn't grow nearly as quickly.










E. tenellus 'regular' has been doing well, getting some height and finally throwing off some runners that have even been rooting on their own. 










E. tenellus 'narrow' with a little 'micro' thrown in for some variety. Both doing quite well; filling in slowly but steadily.










E. angustifolius fills in very quickly. May become an invasive problem in this tank, even. Isn't getting the height I'd hoped (I was hoping 14-18" tall...) It arrived with leaves that long, so it must just be the different conditions in my tank. (No CO2?) More holey sword leaves *sigh*










E. africanus finally starting to put on some height. The new leaves are red only at the tips, which looks cool. E. angustifolius 'vesuvius' is growing well, but still no runners. :icon_frow










Hide N Seek










New Malaysian driftwood I got today to go into the 29gal


----------



## stagius

wow, i really like the shape of ur driftwood.
Keep it up.


----------



## lauraleellbp

Thanks, stagius. The catfish all really like it, too. Plecos, Otos, and Cories all spend a lot of time in there. The Amanos, too. :biggrin:

The Cardinals continue to do well. I've been feeding all my fish homemade mixture of flakes with freshly pressed garlic oil as a prophylactic wormer- it's been going over pretty well. Tonight I'm waiting for some cubes of frozen spirulina-enriched BS, mysis, and bloodworms to thaw, and I'm going to run all of that together through the garlic press with some garlic (no one breathe a WORD to my hubby! LOL).

I decided I'm going to wait a bit longer to move the Cardinals over to the 90gal, I still need some Colorquartz to put underneath the ADA AS that will be going in the 29gal, so I'm going to wait till I can pick that up to break down the tank.

I placed my order with BigAls today to get the intake kit for the Eheim, so hopefully I'll get that in and get the green monster hooked up by next weekend?


----------



## deleted_user_16

how much longer do you intend to wait to transfer cardinals? i really want to see them in the 90 gal


----------



## lauraleellbp

IDK, depends in whether or not the store has the Colorquartz in stock already or if they'll have to order some. I'll call on Monday to find out/order it.

QT is one of those things that the longer the wait, the better... so as much as I really want to see in the 90gal, too, I also want to make doubly sure I'm not introducing any diseases or pathogens. Much better safe than sorry.


----------



## lauraleellbp

Ran the Malaysian driftwood through the dishwasher today on the Sanitize cycle, hopefully this will help with tannins once I start up the 29gal. Amazing what a color difference it made to the wood- it went from red to a worn dusty brown. Between that and the Purigen I'll run in the XP2, hopefully I'll have clear water instead of blackwater.

Cardinals continue to put on weight, grow back torn fins, and do well in the 29gal. I can now see white bellies underneath the red stripe on all of them. The only reason I can tell the "thin" ones from before from the rest is that their fins were in the worst shape, and one of them is almost completely missing the dorsal. There's new growth now, though.

I've been doing water changes with water from the 90gal, and that's gone over well. I continue to feed food mixed with fresh garlic both to the Cardinals and in the 90gal.

The dominant male GBR is showing spawning colors and aggression, but none of the females appear ready. He's taking his frustration out by chasing them around the swordplant. Fortunately there's enough females that the aggression is pretty spread around and no one seems to have suffered any damage. I haven't seen him show any interest in the slate I placed in the tank so far. I've seen the catfish and Otos sitting on it from time to time, but that's it.


----------



## Saraja87

My male GBRs are almost Always ready to spawn, despite the continued disinterest of their female counterparts. They also weren't very fond of the slate pieces, they seem to like amazon sword leaves better. 

For the females, they usually do better if you give them a really protein rich diet and lots and lots of caves. These can be flower pots, tipped driftwood, or just droopy leaves but they love caves. When they're ready to go, they usually get a pinkish tint to their tummies. 

I've also had better luck with them when the PH is lower, like 6.4-6.6 before CO2 and the water is a little warm, around 80. I've also heard that they spawn much more readily if you add Blackwater Tonic or those Indian Almond leaves that people keep with their bettas.


----------



## SeaSerpant

I think those pics deserve a fts


----------



## lauraleellbp

Saraja87 said:


> My male GBRs are almost Always ready to spawn, despite the continued disinterest of their female counterparts. They also weren't very fond of the slate pieces, they seem to like amazon sword leaves better.
> 
> For the females, they usually do better if you give them a really protein rich diet and lots and lots of caves. These can be flower pots, tipped driftwood, or just droopy leaves but they love caves. When they're ready to go, they usually get a pinkish tint to their tummies.
> 
> I've also had better luck with them when the PH is lower, like 6.4-6.6 before CO2 and the water is a little warm, around 80. I've also heard that they spawn much more readily if you add Blackwater Tonic or those Indian Almond leaves that people keep with their bettas.


Thanks for the tips, Sara. This guy spawns every 2 weeks with a different female, since he's got 4 to choose from. He just spawned with one a few days ago, but it was in a pit in the substrate so I'm pretty sure the snails ate all the eggs. I'm not really trying to raise any (I've lost count of the # of times I've had eggs at this point), just trying to encourage them not to dig up my swordplants, which is where they dug their last pit.

Sea, nothing has changed since the last FTS other than the little swordplants are no longer floating around since they're gone. LOL


----------



## lauraleellbp

Here's a few pics of the baby LF albino BN pleco that's got my 46gal all to himself ATM, will that suffice, Sea? LOL He's grown about an inch already since I first got him.


----------



## ColeMan

He's handsome...I bet he loves all the space to himself! I haven't read through your thread for a while, but it looks to me as though you changed your lighting - new bulbs perhaps? Am I way off (or like a month behind or something)?!



stagius said:


> wow, i really like the shape of ur driftwood.
> Keep it up.


This sounded really funny to me...It's amazing what we aquarists will compliment each other on....

"I love that new extra-rigid CO2 tubing you're using....in conjunction with those hose clamps, your tank's really coming along nicely."


----------



## lauraleellbp

LOL @ Cole, that's soooo true!

Yes, I did change the lighting on both my 29gal and my 46gal; I put the Coralife T5NOs on them and it made a dramatic difference! I'm going to do separate journals on both of these tanks once I really start working on them.


----------



## SeaSerpant

lauraleellbp said:


> Here's a few pics of the baby LF albino BN pleco that's got my 46gal all to himself ATM, will that suffice, Sea? LOL He's grown about an inch already since I first got him.


Yes i think that does


----------



## lauraleellbp

QT Update- the Cardinals look great. I can only ID 2 of the 4 original "fish of concern" and one only b/c it had an almost completely ripped off dorsal fin that has made good progress toward regrowth. The "bruised" fish I can still see some slight dark areas on the side and still a few missing scales. All of the Cardinals continue to look and act very good, eating well, bright colors, haven't lost any. There are still a few torn fins here and there but overall they have all put on weight and all finnage has shown dramatic improvement. I can't even pick out the fish any more that had the cyst. I think I'm in shock, honestly. First time ever I've never lost ANY! 

I located 2 bags of black T grade Colorquartz (it's gone up in price, it will be $56 for both bags) and I hope to get away from work early sometime this week to go pick them up.

Means that this weekend the Cardinals will "graduate" to the 90gal and I'll get cracking on 2 tanks; both my 10gal at work and I plant to start cycling the ADA AS here in the 29gal QT tank.  Finally!


----------



## Complexity

Sounds like things are looking very positive for your cardinals! Did you take any pictures of the cyst? I'm just wondering if it was anything like what I found on one of my cardinals.

I missed part of this thread while my power was out, but why were the fins on the cardinals damaged?

Looking forward to updates with pictures! :hihi:


----------



## lauraleellbp

Sorry, Vicki, no pics b/c my camera doesn't have a macro setting nor can it catch fish in motion... so no way I was going to be able to get any shot even vaguely resembling a fish, much less a cyst LOL 

From what I remember of the cyst your cichlid had, there weren't too many similarities or differences other than I think they were both cysts. The cyst on my tetra was not as large, was on the top of the body just in front of the tail, and was really pink. My guess is that both were bacterial infections of some sort, though.

The tetras fins were all ragged when I got them, I presume from some rough handling along the way at some point. I think one of them may even have had some internal issues (looked like the fish had been squeezed or banged up pretty badly) but very surprisingly, that fish is now doing really well and now I even have a hard time picking it out from the rest.

I'll try and get some updated pics this weekend after the Cardinals have been moved over and acclimated a little to the 90gal. I'm also hoping that my BigAls order will come in so that I can get my Eheim 2217 up and running.


----------



## Complexity

Okay on the pics. I had to take the fish out of the water to get my pics, and I did that only because I wanted to be able to better view the area so I could figure out what to do. As it was, I didn't do anything.

My cardinal's spot was on the body, just in front of the tail. I don't remember any pink; it was more white. I'll try to find the pic so you can compare it to what your cardinal had.

Good to hear they're doing so well. It's a real shame that they were mishandled at some point, but they have a wonderful home now! 

And congrats on the new Eheim! I'm sure you'll love it.


----------



## lauraleellbp

Well my BigAls order still isn't in. Looked online, and delivery was rescheduled to Tuesday.  I also couldn't get away from work early this week to go pick up the Colorquartz, so the other tank projects are probably on all hold till next weekend. Oh well. I need to do some maintenance on the 90gal this weekend anyways, so I'll probably move the Cardinals over after I'm done with that and a water change.


----------



## lauraleellbp

The Cardinals have all been moved over into their permanent home. I LOVE the way their colors have brought the tank alive, and the actinic bulb absolutely makes their neon stripe just glow. :smile: Pics will have to wait till tomorrow, though; I think the camera is out in the car.

I also did quite a bit of filter maintenance and moved several of my filters around. I'd been having recent issues with my AquaClear 110 rattling incessantly, and my XP2 had lost suction and kept cutting off. Turns out both were being caused by the same issues; the sponge prefilters needed a really thorough cleaning. Amazing what a difference in flow now!

I moved the XP2 over to my 46gal along with the AquaClear 70 that had been on the 29gal. I moved the Penguin 330 HOB that had been on my 46gal over to the 90gal, where it will remain until my order from Big Als comes in and I'm able to set up the Eheim 2217.


----------



## CL

Congrats on the cards! I love the direction this tank is going. Oh, and you have a beautiful floor


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## deleted_user_16

pics pics pics


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## lopez_316us

I can't wait for the Pics!!!


----------



## lauraleellbp

OK, I ran out in the rain to the car to get the camera. There's a little bit of glare in a few pics since I'm taking these during the day, but it's not too bad since it's so overcast outside. 

The poor sword is looking a bit pathetic, I did a pretty big hack job removing most of the worst leaves that the GN plecos chewed on. The new leaves so far are untouched- which supports my theory that they really were just after the algae growing on the leaves.

The majority of these pics are taken with all 4 bulbs running. ATM, that's an actinic bulb (love the way it picks out the neon stripe in the Cardinals!) 2x 10k bulbs (I want to replace one of those with a 6k bulb at some point) and an 18k PowerGlo (really like this pink bulb). The last 2 pics in this series are with the 2nd bank of bulbs off, so you can see the difference when the actinic and extra 10k bulb are off. The plants and reds don't look nearly as washed-out.

Here goes:

















































































































































And here's the 2 pics with just the 10k and 18k bulbs:


----------



## deleted_user_16

:icon_surp:icon_surp:icon_surp pretty


----------



## jaidexl

Nice, love the extra color.

Wow, the bottom's really filled in. You keeping that patch empty on the left?

Looks like the the plec's been having sword for dinner. :hihi:


----------



## Chrisinator

Whoa. Awesomeness.


----------



## lopez_316us

jaidexl said:


> Nice, love the extra color.
> 
> Wow, the bottom's really filled in. You keeping that patch empty on the left?
> 
> Looks like the the plec's been having sword for dinner. :hihi:



Hey Does Gold Nugget like to eat sword? I have one Sword in my tank looking very similar to Laura's Sword. (I have one Gold Nugget, Clown pleco and Farlowella pleco.)

Laura!

Looks really good! Congratulation.

Cardinals are my favorite fish and they look really good in your tank!!


----------



## lauraleellbp

Thanks, Chris and Fish. :smile:

Jaide, that spot is the "feeding area" and the remainder of my "river." I do want to keep the carpeting plants out of that spot, it's the favorite foraging spot for the Cories, but I've started toying with the idea of planting one of my other swords there... it does look really bare. Options that I currently have in my 46gal would be a Rose sword, AquaFleur, Red Devil, Tricolor, or Variagated... IDK yet. I'm leaning towards the Rose sword, since it's seeming to stay low more like a Melon sword. I don't want something that would get too big around or too tall. I've even considered filling the area with some Tropica swords.

I'm still waiting to get some more height in the tank. I'm really hoping that the E. africanus will grow nice and tall to fill in the left, and that the E. angustifolius will fill in the middle... If not, that's where I'll try some L. 'cuba'.


----------



## CL

I love the cards  Your sword leaves are huge  When are you going to finish the left side?


----------



## jaidexl

Ok, it looked awfully clean there, I figured you were keeping it that way for some reason. Too bad you can't put sand there, well, you could but it would be a messy job that keeps on giving. You'd be separating gravel and sand until the tank's end.


----------



## lopez_316us

Never mind I just read Laura Theory!


----------



## jaidexl

lopez_316us said:


> Hey Does Gold Nugget like to eat sword? I have one Sword in my tank looking very similar to Laura's Sword. (I have one Gold Nugget, Clown pleco and Farlowella pleco.)


If you have rawed-off spots like Laura's, then it's probably a pleco. They love them like fat kids and cake. If you study the leaves long enough, you can usually start to recognize a pattern in the randomness, to set it apart from a deficiency. You might see frayed veins sticking out like someone sanded the leaves down with 200 grit. My Glyptoperichthys scrophus used to skin my Amazon sword something fierce, and had a bulldog pleco that would destroy giant hygro.


----------



## lauraleellbp

Lopez- I've learned that as long as I throw some food in for the plecos at lights out they'll pretty much leave the sword alone. Hikari sinking wafers are a favorite of every fish in my tank. Unfortunately for my poor sword, I haven't quite gotten in the habit of remembering to do that every night... and regretted it each morning LOL


----------



## lopez_316us

Thanks guys!


----------



## lauraleellbp

Well... Now I have a dilemna. I just won an auction on an XP4 on Ebay, new one with all the media for $145, shipped. :smile:

I think I'm going to end up with the AquaClear 110 on my 46gal. Or I could put the Eheim 2217 on the 46gal, and run the AquaClear 110 and XP4 on this tank...

It's nice to have options! :hihi:


----------



## CL

I guess that is a good dilemma to be in


----------



## lauraleellbp

Yeah, no matter what I do I'm going to end up with a backup filter- which is always a good idea when you're running as many tanks as I am ATM...

OK, I want some input. If these were your tanks, what would you guys do?

For sure, the XP1 will be going on my 10gal, and the XP2 will be going on my 29gal.

That leaves the 46gal and the 90gal with the following filter options:

AquaClear 110
AquaClear 70
Penguin 330
Eheim 2217
Rena XP4

Which 2 filters would you put on which 2 tanks, and why? Both will have heavy plant and fish loads.


----------



## CL

xp4 and 110 on this tank, sell the 46 gallon tank so that you can ship me the 2217, I wont charge you a penny


----------



## Ozymandias

wow nice to see everything. 

personally i would go with the xp4 and 2217 on the 90 but would be a really hard decide for me


----------



## CL

yeah, the 2217 and the xp4 would be awesome on this tank, but then what about the 46 gallon tank...


----------



## Ozymandias

why not give the 46 gallon the 110


----------



## skoorbza

Can't help on the filters, I'm afraid (noob!). But wanted to say how lovely your tank looks. Is there a reason for no background? The blue in your Cardinals really does add spark.

It is especially nice to read the loving management and consideration you give to all the living things in your care. If only all creatures and plants were so lucky!


----------



## Karackle

i have no experience with canisters so I'm afraid I can't help on that issued

BUT

THE CARDINALS LOOK AMAZING!!! :biggrin: they REALLY brighten up the tank, you are not wrong about that!  That blue stripe on them really really pops....i want another tank so I can have cardinals! LOL :hihi:

Anyway, as usual, tank looks amazing! :thumbsup:


----------



## Saraja87

Those cardinals are stunning! It's so nice to see them looking so healthy and active.


----------



## forddna

Did you get those cardinals from boxlotfish? If not, where? How did they all turn out? Any casualties?


----------



## Bk828

Great looking tank laura. The cardinals sure are bright


----------



## lauraleellbp

Thanks, everyone! :smile: I'm really happy with them, too.



forddna said:


> Did you get those cardinals from boxlotfish? If not, where? How did they all turn out? Any casualties?


Nope, the only fish in the tank left from BoxLot are 6 Corydoras Schwartzii (down from 8) and IDK how many Otos (I started off with 12 but I never see more than 4 at a time now... they're probably still mostly in there somewhere...)

These Cardinals are from Boardroom Aquatics in Fort Myers. So far I haven't lost any of the 35 Cardinals, or any of the 6 GBRs or 25 Pristella tetras that I bought there- which I'm absolutely thrilled about. :icon_smil


----------



## lopez_316us

After taking care and maintenance on them and your tank, How are they going to die!!!

Congratulations!

I lost my school due to over dose dry Fertz! and the few alive my angel had a good snack.( I'm not sure what trigger the attack )..... Now I'm looking for a good home for my angel! Anyway, that's another history......

Your tank looks really good!!!!!!


----------



## forddna

Lopez, I had cardinals die after 2-3 weeks of QT, then in my tank for 3 weeks, then one died every day for about a week. No abnormal water params, major changes to water chemistry, etc.


----------



## lauraleellbp

Yeah, it's really really hard to get good stock. They just go through so much between being caught and held and shipped and exposed to all kinds of new water parameters, pathogens, stressors... This is the first time I didn't lose at least 1/3 right from the getgo.


----------



## lauraleellbp

OK so I made my filter decisions.

The XP4 and the AquaClear 110 are going on the 90gal.

The Eheim 2217 will go on the 46gal.

XP2 on the 29gal.

XP1 on the 10gal.

Leaves the Penguin 330 and AquaClear 70 as backup filters in case of emergencies. :thumbsup:

Order from Big Als came in today.


----------



## James From Cali

Laura, its coming along greatly and I love how the wood stands out against the green. Whatever you put in the Feeding/Foraging spot would be great, even though I personally would leave because it reminds me of exiting the jungle into a clearing .


----------



## lauraleellbp

Thanks, James.  How are your tanks doing? Haven't seen an update on them in a while (hint hint...) 

I keep flipping back and forth, but I may end up putting my Rose sword in that spot.


----------



## James From Cali

My 29g is doing well. I had to reduce the lighting on it as my income is getting smaller. I have a new crayfish in there that me and my friend caught and I am curious as to what it species but dont have a camera(mine broke )

I was trying to do a search for a pic on a rose sword. What is the scientific name of it? I think any of the smaller swords would look nice and go well with the theme of the tank.


----------



## lauraleellbp

No scientific name since they're a cultivar. I believe the more "formal" name would be Echinodorus sp. 'rose' 

Here's pics of the actual plant (currently hanging out potted in my 46gal with a bunch of other miscellaneous plants...)


----------



## James From Cali

Ooooo, pretty plant. I think that will be really nice in the corner, but I would try it first to see how it looks in the corner first before making a final decision. I think it looks nice empty. I may have to get one of those for my tank lol.


----------



## lauraleellbp

Yeah, they're lovely plants. I really like the contrasts; yellow veining, new leaves are pink, then change into a lovely bright green as the leaves get older.

Still haven't made my final decision about placement, though. We'll see.

Paid for the XP4 today, and also snagged another Hydor 300 watt inline so that I can leave the other Hydor in the XP2 and run it on the 29gal.

I'm going to finally start on the setup for both my 29gal and my 10gal this weekend. We'll see how far I get.


----------



## lescarpentier

lauraleellbp said:


> Paid for the XP4 today,


Hope it was cheap.:hihi: jk

How about some new FTSs


----------



## lauraleellbp

Less than $150 shipped, Les. :fish:
Nothing really has changed. I just realized now that I can actually take the sponge prefilter off the AquaClear 110- there's no more RCS in the tank to worry about getting sucked in. The sponge keeps growing algae b/c it's so close to the light, so I'm going to take it out.



















Kleiner bar is flowering again









Best pics of my Cories to date









A cool pic of my Salvinia (or maybe it's Pistia??)









Stargrass is finally growing great in my tank this time around 









A GBR wearing camo and going undercover to visit with the Plecos and Amanos









E. tenellus carpet is filling in slowly but steadily









E. angustifolius may try and take over









E. africanus are finally starting to grow taller, but my E. 'vesuvius' keeps getting pulled up









And a final parting shot


----------



## lescarpentier

Looks really nice LL.:thumbsup:


----------



## CL

Nice stargrass LL


----------



## Karackle

Tank is looking awesome! Wow, those cardinals really add some sparkle! :biggrin: That is a REALLY cool shot of the GBR in camo too! :thumbsup:


----------



## fishboy87

Great shots! I'm curious to see how the rose sword looks in your tank of you decide to put it in.


----------



## lauraleellbp

Thanks, guys.

The more I look at the tank, the more I don't want to put the Rose sword in there. I'd try Marselia minuta, but I'm pretty sure that the Cories would end up uprooting it all. That's about the only plant I can think of that would give the "look" that I want there.


----------



## Tex Gal

Your E. Africanus looks so baby compared to mine. I was surprised at how big they get. I think you are going to have quite a full corner back there! How many are back there?

You pleco did a number on your sword. If you pull off those leaves I think you will get new leaves faster. Glad you're doing the algae wafers! 

Your tank is really filling in. I like your small grass look. It's really spreading! Looking good!


----------



## lauraleellbp

Thanks, Tex.  Yeah, I can't wait for the E. africanus to really grow in. It will entirely change the look of the tank. They've been growing incredibly slowly for me, though. I've had these since April, and I've got 5, I believe? I may end up putting them back in the right corner (where the Bacopa is now) once they get a little bigger. I had them there to begin with, but they were staying so short that the corner looked too empty.

I actually butchered the kleiner bar sword just last week. There's only 1/2 the leaves now that there were to begin with; the worst ones are gone now, believe it or not. Once the sword has had a chance to put out a few more mature leaves I'll definitely trim these out. I just didn't want to trim too many at once. So far, the new leaves remain untouched. Hopefully they will stay that way.

My GBRs are showing breeding colors and aggression again. I think it's b/c I topped off the tank yesterday. There's 2 females with purple bellies this time, I'm not sure yet which will end up winning the male's affections. Looks like I may have been wrongfully accusing the Cories of pulling up all my E. 'vesuvius'- seems that the GBRs have picked their spot to dig their newest spawning pit.


----------



## Tex Gal

WOW!! FIVE!! I'll have to snap some px and show you how big my one is. It is at least 18" wide and as tall. Of course that is leaf span which you can lift them up some. I can't imagine having 5. You might not be able to keep 5 once they start growing. I don't think mine is mature yet as I seen no signs of blooms or what not....


----------



## lauraleellbp

I only bought 3, and Ghafanzar sent me 5 LOL I know they get huge- I saw how massive they were in his 300gal... at the rate they're growing (or not growing, as the case may be) it may be YEARS before I need to move them though! :hihi: 

I originally had in mind 3 of them filling in the background and growing around and over the top of my driftwood. May still happen at some point..

(Now watch- they're gonna hit a growth spurt next week and you'll see "Massive Swordplants for Sale" in the S&S next week!)


----------



## lauraleellbp

So the Rena XP4 came in yesterday. I've started the assembly but my hands hurt ATM from fighting with the tubing and the plastic barbs LOL. I should have it up and running by tonight, though.

I was planning on setting up the Eheim 2217 on my 46gal, too, but doesn't look like I'm going to get to it. Oh well, there's always some other night.

Oh yeah- the GBRs are spawning again. I'm starting to be able to tell the blue females apart; he's spawning with the larger one that I believe is becoming the dominant female.

He just spawned with one of the yellow females earlier this week. Both spawns were in the same pit underneath the E. africanus. I think the eggs might be a little easier to protect there, and this female is usually the most protective mother... so we'll see what happens.


----------



## Complexity

LL, I had the worst time getting the tubing on when I got my first canister. That's when I was told of the magic of vaseline. Put the tiniest amount of vaseline on your pinky finger and swish it around the inside of the hose end. Then use a paper towel to wipe it down so there's only the slightest coating of the vaseline. Now you can put the hoses on without destroying your hands!

Also, I've completely given up on any of the hose clamps that come with canisters. I find them both difficult and ineffective for the most part. Instead, I now use metal hose clamps from any hardware store. They are very easy to use and hold the hoses in place without fail!

Click for picture: http://www.northernbrewer.com/pics/fullsize/clamps-worm-gear.jpg

They are very cheap and easy to not only put on, but are simple to take off and put back on if needed. I honestly don't know why these kinds of clamps aren't standard with canisters.


----------



## fishboy87

LL, have you had in swimmers yet as far as babies go? Are you going to try to raise a batch sometime? With the colors of the adults you have, I wouldn't mind taking two babies off your hands if you get any  (I'm not joking)


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## lauraleellbp

Thanks for the vaseline suggestion, Vicki- that's a really good idea and I think I'll give it a try. I actually do like the hose clamps that come with the Renas, and I've got a little system worked out where I use my planting tweezers as tools to close and reopen them, it works pretty well. Needle nosed pliers also work pretty well.

fishboy- I've never seen any wigglers so far. I don't think any eggs have made it long enough to hatch. 

This morning the female has been ganged up on by all 3 of the other females all day. Just a lot of chasing, no actual violence, though. The Pristellas also are always swimming over to see if they can catch the nest unguarded. The Cories so far have stayed away, but I know that they've raided nests in the past. I'll actually be somewhat surprised if there are eggs come tonight. With all the fish in this tank I'll be amazed if I ever do get any fry that survive.


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## Cmaddog

I get nervous using petroleum products in my tanks (I know it is miniscule amounts), I tend to get a little OCD, but I found it easy to soak the end of the hose in Hot water, then push it on, then either dunk it or run it under cold water, and I use hose clamps also. It has worked well for me on my tanks, and in my dental office tubing.

:thumbsup:


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## jaidexl

I use those freebie packets of AquaSafe to lube hose etc, really slimy stuff.


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## wschalle

Cmaddog said:


> I get nervous using petroleum products in my tanks (I know it is miniscule amounts), I tend to get a little OCD, but I found it easy to soak the end of the hose in Hot water, then push it on, then either dunk it or run it under cold water, and I use hose clamps also. It has worked well for me on my tanks, and in my dental office tubing.
> 
> :thumbsup:


Hot water is a much better alternative IMHO, because it makes it almost as easy to put together as vaseline... Plus hot water costs nothing


----------



## lauraleellbp

What's AquaSafe?

I ended up just going with them as they are. XP4 is up and running and man that thing puts out a ton of flow!!!

I actually didn't get it going till just tonight; we had company over the weekend, and then I had the flu (just now starting to feel better)... 

So my next project is to try and get the Eheim 2217 hooked up on the 46gal. There's some weird algae in that tank that's started in my floating plants, I'm gonna have to look into that to make sure it doesn't spread to my other tanks.

I had to do another massive trim on my kleiner bar. The poor thing is looking pathetic now and I'm seriously considering getting rid of my Gold nugget plecos... I think I have 2 species, and it may only be one of them that munches on the sword, so I might have to do some detective work and figure out which one it is.


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## jaidexl

lauraleellbp said:


> What's AquaSafe?


Tetra dechlor


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## lauraleellbp

Der. :confused1:

I totally have some of that!


----------



## Karackle

Sorry to hear about the plecos eating the kleiner bar still! It would be a shame to have to get rid of both of them, sounds like detective work might definitely be in order! Good luck!


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## jaidexl

I think that's the stuff, see if it's slimy. The hot water trick sounds better, your hands probably don't get too slippery, you have to be careful not to touch the slimy stuff or you'll be fighting a losing hose war.


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## Complexity

It's nice to learn alternatives to using vaseline. Vaseline was just what I was told in the beginning so that's what I use. I've discussed some of the pros and cons on here with others, and I've decided to use it anyway. I've used the warm water trick, but I can't use that when I'm trying to connect or disconnect a hose that's already setup in my tank. I can only use it when I'm able to take the hose to the sink. Although, I will admit that I did warm up one hose using a lighter when nothing else would work (the hose was actually a smaller diameter than the connection so I had to stretch it). I will caution anyone using a lighter though as there are obvious dangers when using that method. Hot water is much safer.

I'm very interested in trying Aquasafe! I wonder if it can work with canister seals?

LL, I really hope you don't have to give up either of your plecos! Are you sure the sword is worth it?


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## Cmaddog

I usually have a larger corningware measureing cup that I fill with hot water (or microwave the water) and then just have a small pail of cold water for dunking. I does not help with getting tubes off though. It is just for putting on!


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## Complexity

What a great idea! So why didn't I think of it? :icon_lol:

I have found a way to get the tubes off. I cut the tube off about 1" away from the end, and then make a downward cut on the remaining tube. I then use pliers to pull one side of the cut piece which forces the tubing to split downward, releasing it from whatever it's connected to. The split is usually not straight down, but circular, but as long as you are careful, you can get the split to work its way down to the end.

Of course, this only works if you have enough tubing to cut a couple inches off or are replacing the tubing.


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## lauraleellbp

The pleco(s?) are starting to munch on my E. africanus now that those leaves are growing larger, too. Those were some pretty expensive plants, so things aren't looking good for the GNPs...


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## Complexity

I take it your plecos are veggie eating and not wood eating? My pleco is a wood eater, and he doesn't touch any of my plants (and the leaves on my lotus are large). He usually hangs out at the base of the driftwood or on on the driftwood when he's gnawing on it.

I'm sorry you're having problems with your GNPs eating the leaves. It's such a shame to let go of such beautiful plecos.


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## lauraleellbp

My clown pleco has never been an issue. I do suspect that I have 2 species of GNPs, so it may only be one of them that is the problem... IDK which one though, since I never actually see it happening? I may have to pull an all-nighter "stakeout" some night to figure out which one it is. :icon_roll


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## Complexity

I was reading about GNPs on PlanetCatfish, and they claim GNPs aren't supposed to "molest" plants (wish they would find a better word). But there are always exceptions.

However, I did note that they show the fish to grow to 14"! Wow, I thought they were a smaller pleco. Can you imagine what they would look like when fully grown! They must be magnificent! Not that I'd have room for a fish that big, but it would be a treat.

I wonder if there's something you could offer the plecos that they'd like better than the leaves?


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## TheCryptKeeper

if you have to get rid of the gnp's let me know... I would take them  seriously

but I hope you don't. I have a clown pleco and he doesn't eat any of the plants that I have. are you making sure that they are getting enough food down to them? any veggies?


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## ZooTycoonMaster

Come on, update your tank already


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## lopez_316us

ZooTycoonMaster said:


> Come on, update your tank already


x2 and pictures please!!!


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## lauraleellbp

IDK where my hubby ran off with the camera... I haven't seen it in weeks! LOL

I've never tried the phone on my camera, if I can't hunt down the other camera I might try that, I guess...

Nothing really has changed, though. Only a few more chewed-up leaves on the sword. I go back and compare the sword to how it looked a few months ago and it makes me really sad. :icon_frow

I need to do something with these plecos...


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## jcardona1

beautiful tank Laura!! too many tank journals to keep track of. i always see 'new' ones pop up and spend hours looking thru them


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## Tex Gal

L.L. have you tried the cucumbers? What about zuchini blanched? My plecos love the cucumbers. There is also spinach, and peas. There must be some veggie out there that they will like better than your sword plant. Have your tried calling Exotic finds and asking them? They may have just the answer for you. I know how much I love my plecos and I bet you're the same way about yours!


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## jaidexl

I came to the point where I just signed my sword over to the plec as one of his main sources of food. :icon_roll I guess that's easy to do when it's just E. amazonicus growing like a weed.

LL, sounds like you're going to have to set up a pleco tank!


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## lauraleellbp

No, I haven't been doing the grocery shopping and I keep forgetting to ask my hubby to pick up cucs... maybe this week I can grab some. 

Here's just a few quick shots I snapped last night.

I've decided I'm going to pull the Stargrass and try Najas instead. Stargrass keeps getting shaded at the bottom, then the stem fades and breaks off... which then floats all around my tank and gets annoying. Haven't done it yet. Maybe tonight.


----------



## eyebeatbadgers

The tank is looking good. Have you thought about painting the intake tube of your XP filter black with some Krylon Fusion paint? I did mine a while back, and it makes a huge difference. You really can't see the thing at all now. I wish I had painted the spraybar as well, as it isn't quite as dark as the intake tube. Just gotta make sure you let it cure, which takes several days (I think it recommends 7, but I did four, and had no adverse side effects.)


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## lauraleellbp

Thanks, EBB.

Painting all my intakes is one of the things on my To Do list. Now that I've got a spare intake tube (since I went with clear acrylic tubes for my XP1) I can do it pretty easily. I should probably do the AquaClear intake tube, while I'm at it... It will be a Winter project, I suppose.


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## CL

The tank does look good. I really like the pennywort around the wood. I would try to thicken it up (the pennywort that is)


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## lauraleellbp

You're right, I think it probably would look better, and I should replant some. Between the water flow, the Cories, and the Plecos, it has a tendency to get pulled up, and I've been just throwing it in my other tank instead of replanting it. 

I'm really not liking the "hole" where my big sword once filled the area all in...


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## Complexity

The pennywort around the wood has always been my favorite part, too. It looks so natural and serene. I'm happy as it is, but if you do add more, make sure it doesn't cover the wood too much. I like how it "vines" it way up, through, and around the wood. I'd swear I was looking at a natural pond.

What do you have planned for the left side?

Your groundcover is looking really nice, too. I like how it seems to flow out from the wooded area.


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## lauraleellbp

Vicki -
I think I'm going to leave the left side open, it's a feeding area, and the Cories like digging around in the larger black gravel.

Did a 20% PWC tonight, probably the first one in at least a month. Got quite a bit of debris out of the tank, hopefully that will slow down the algae that's been getting a bit out of control (I've been leaving the lights on too long again...). The Hydrocoytle is looking pretty rough from hair algae; I may get some more if this doesn't bounce back quickly.

I think the Gold Nugget pleco with the smaller spots is L018 and the other is Baryancistrus L177. And I think the L018 is the one munching on my swords. So it's probably going to go... I may see if I can trade it in for a BN pleco species. I don't want an albino or a common brown one, though, so I'll see.

Looks like my Clown pleco is close to reaching the end of its life. I've had this fish for years now- close to 5, at least, and IDK how old it was when I got it but it was already an adult. It's got dropsy pretty badly ATM, though. It's always hidden so much I've no idea how long it's been coming on, but I actually saw it out in the open this morning and its entire body is swollen and the scales are sticking out like the tell-tale pinecone.

All of the rest of the fish look in perfect health. I did find one dead Oto about a month ago, but I'm pretty sure that's the only fish I've lost in quite some time.

A few days ago the monster Amano female shed her latest group of Zoes. She was right up in the front corner of the tank, hiding from the rest of the fish under the E. tenellus, but I had an awesome view. The zoes were tiny but very active swimmers. Between all the rams and the tetras they didn't get more than a few inches away from the mother before being eaten, though.

If we don't get busy tomorrow afternoon I think I might start work on the 46gal. The P. weitzmani and albino LF BN pleco are the only fish in that tank, but it's stuffed full of all kinds of random plants (especially swords and mosses) that I really need to sort through. I've noticed that clado has started to overrun all the plants that are floating and I want to clean that up before it gets down to my swords. If I get a chance I might pick up some topsoil tomorrow and start working on making the mineralized soil that will go in the tank.


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## TheCryptKeeper

I kinda like the open area.. will the foreground plants form a carpet?


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## lauraleellbp

Ken, yes, the E. tenellus have been carpeting up pretty well, actually. The only area that's still a little sparse was where the big sword leaves shaded them (until recently... so now that those leaves are gone that area is filling in, too). Got a few pics of the tank from my camera phone last week, I just now figured out how to upload them. I took some more tonight, but somehow I'm having trouble still getting those from my camera to my 'puter...


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## lauraleellbp

Might as well post a few more pics...

These are a few pics of my 46gal about 9 mos ago, complete with El Plastico plants...



















And this is last week, with a bored Isis in the foreground.










She's very busy ignoring Selkie, you see...










...who's busy ignoring Neffi. Neffi just wants someone- anyone- to come play with her.


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## Karackle

hahahaha I love it! You're cat and dogs are very adorable!!! I love the little ignoring each other chain, hilarious!


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## lauraleellbp

I've actually got some decent vids of the 90gal on my Treo, but can't for the life of me figure out what patch I'm missing to transfer them onto my puter.


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## TheCryptKeeper

I like the tenellus... is it hard to grow? does it stay low like that on its own?

the tank looks great.. I think it looks better without the large sword plant. my father in law had a crazy large amazon sword that took up almost half a 55 gallon tank.. I thought it was silly


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## lauraleellbp

Nope, the E. tenellus is super-easy- just plant it and leave it alone. The 'narrow' version is the one in the majority of the tank, then the E. tennelus "regular" is the taller stuff over on the right.

I actually managed to snag the digital camera for a few quick shots! :fish:


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## @[email protected]

i love it. its growing in excellently.


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## TheCryptKeeper

so the narrow tennelus is the small stuff growing throughout most of the foreground. I like that! Might have to trade in the sunset and go that route! maybe


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## ZooTycoonMaster

Oh no, the Sword isn't doing that well:icon_cry: Have you taken any runners and planted them for more Swords?

Other than that, the rest of the tank is filling in nicelyroud:


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## lauraleellbp

Thanks, guys. 

ZTM, I'm pretty sure now that it's the Gold Nugget Pleco L018 that's chomping on the Kleiner bar. I'll probably end up replacing it with a fancy BN pleco species some time soon (don't want an albino or a plain brown BN, but I've seen a few other species that I'm looking into...) Or possibly a Queen Arabesque pleco.

Barbara, I love your sunset hygro foreground, but I must say that E. tenellus would be a lot less work. If you like reds in the foreground, you could always go with the 'micro' version. You do have to give it a while to get established; mine has been in the tank since April (though it's low tech, of course...)


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## TheCryptKeeper

lauraleellbp said:


> Thanks, guys.
> 
> ZTM, I'm pretty sure now that it's the Gold Nugget Pleco L018 that's chomping on the Kleiner bar. I'll probably end up replacing it with a fancy BN pleco species some time soon (don't want an albino or a plain brown BN, but I've seen a few other species that I'm looking into...) Or possibly a Queen Arabesque pleco.
> 
> Barbara, I love your sunset hygro foreground, but I must say that E. tenellus would be a lot less work. If you like reds in the foreground, you could always go with the 'micro' version. You do have to give it a while to get established; mine has been in the tank since April (though it's low tech, of course...)


you are such a smartass! lol..

the micro version is the one with the hint of red to it.. I wonder how long it would take to fill in, in my tank. do you have any of the micro version?


btw.. I tried to get pics of the small plecos.. they wouldn't come out and play!


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## angel919

is that a bunch of frogbit floating in that 1 pic? If so do you know what kind? I'm looking for the species with the longest roots for a shrimp tank set up.


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## CL

Looks good LL!


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## ZooTycoonMaster

lauraleellbp said:


> ZTM, I'm pretty sure now that it's the Gold Nugget Pleco L018 that's chomping on the Kleiner bar. I'll probably end up replacing it with a fancy BN pleco species some time soon (don't want an albino or a plain brown BN, but I've seen a few other species that I'm looking into...) Or possibly a Queen Arabesque pleco.


That sucks, cause Gold Nuggets look pretty cool:icon_cry:

Is there a specific _type_ of algae you're trying to combat?


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## ColeMan

your tank sure is looking good laura...what ever happened with that eheim classic you got? Did you ever get it up and running? Are you a convert? Am I opening a can of worms? Too many questions, I know...I'm just excited to have some time to come back and wander around!


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## Karackle

Hahahaha i just realized that I got so distracted by the pooches and kitty that I forgot to tell you the tank is looking awesome! I just love it! 

I'm sorry to hear about the continuing sword munching problem though. alas. But at least the sword is still making babies, so it must be healthy at least!


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## rasetsu

I lost one of my clown plecos to dropsy several months ago. I have one more. They barely come out of hiding and when they do, that's usually when there is something wrong with them. I have to hunt for my remaining one with a flash light after the lights go out just to make sure it's still alive and looks normal.

Wouldn't the amano zoes die anyways due to not being in brackish water? I've seen my amanos pearled before, but never seen one actually drop zoes.

How many cardinals do you have in there right now?


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## Pooky125

I had a clown pleco for probably 6 years and last I heard, he was still kickin with his new owner. In all that time, I was lucky if, after 4 of those years, of living in the same aquarium, if I saw him every month in a tank a third of the size of yours. I never found a corpse, so I just assumed he was in there somewhere. He always was, fat, happy, and healthy. I wouldn't worry to much about yours not being terribly visible. They're pretty shy.


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## lauraleellbp

Barbara flick- yes, I've got a few 'micros' mixed in with my 'narrow' but I can't say I've paid attention to whether or not it grows at any different rate... I think with your lighting, ferts, and CO2 that it should all fill in pretty well, much more quickly than in my tank. I'm not in any hurry for our potential "pleco swap" so just LMK if you ever do get any pics (or if you find some online that look like yours that will work too...)

angel- I do have one lonesome piece of frogbit in this tank, though IDK that I got it in any of those pictures? The only plants that are floating in those pics are mainly Pistia (water lettuce) and a kleiner bar swordlet that's still attached to the mother plant, and there's invariably a few stems of Bacopa and Stargrass that got pulled out by the catfish mixed in, too.

Thanks, clw and kara :fish:
ZTM, I'm not really combatting the algae, but there's some hair algae, a little GSA, and a few spots of clado that will start growing quickly when I leave the lights on too long. As long as I stay under 8 hour photoperiod it doesn't seem to really affect the plants at all. As long as the plants don't visibly suffer I pretty much ignore it.

Cole- long time no see! Where ya been hiding? Have you updated your Journal yet???? (for crying out loud, you're worse than BarbieKen flick: again) about updating your journal!!! LOL) The Eheim is destined to go onto my 46gal now. I ended up sticking an XP4 on this tank and moving the XP2 over to my 29gal. The Eheim is just sitting on the floor in my office, do plan to get it set up soon, though. Still haven't ever even plugged it in... LOL

raetsu- yep, the Amano zoes would have died anyways. I've got 2 big Amano females in this tank that are constantly berried and take turns releasing their zoes. This time was just so cool b/c it was right up against the front of the tank glass so I got a front row seat to the show!  I'm pretty sure that none of the Cardinals have died, so there's about 35 in there.

Pooky- I'm not worried about my Clown pleco not being visible, I've had him a long long time and rarely see him- but he's got all the signs of dropsy, so I'm expecting him to die sometime sooner or later. I don't have an extra QT tank set up ATM, and I'm pretty sure that it's just old age since I've had him so long, so I'm just going to try and make sure to remove the body once he passes so it doesn't pollute the tank. Plecos are pretty hefty fish... even fairly small ones like Clowns.


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## angel919

ty great looking tank btw:thumbsup:


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## lauraleellbp

I cleaned my XP4 yesterday and rearranged a bit of media (decided to add some Ehfimech to the biological compartment instead of Ehfisubstrat, I don't like the size of the Ehfisubstrat in comparison to the holes in the media baskets, it keeps falling through...)

Anyways, I went to rinse out what I thought was some sludge in the bottom of the canister... and it turns out it was about 1/4 an inch solid of baby MTS! All the same size! :icon_eek: Where did they come from, and why on earth were they all the same size??

I'm also adding some more E. 'vesuvius' to the tank, surrounding the "remains" of my Kleiner bar. I also got some more Hydrocoytle (and this batch has the biggest leaves I've ever seen!) to plant around the driftwood. I'll try and get some pics afterwards.


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## talontsiawd

Lauralee-Very impressive, i started at the beginning, had to skip around here and there if i didn't want to spend the rest of the night reading. Love the progress, insight, and showing it when problems arisied, not only at it's best. I had to go through this fully since you have helped me alot in my shor time doing this.


Best quoteable in the thread:


fishscale said:


> PShhht, when I make it big as a rapper, I'm gonna buy me some Global GS's. WITH RIMS.


----------



## Karackle

lauraleellbp said:


> Anyways, I went to rinse out what I thought was some sludge in the bottom of the canister... and it turns out it was about 1/4 an inch solid of baby MTS! All the same size! :icon_eek: Where did they come from, and why on earth were they all the same size??


Hahahahah WEIRD! I wonder if somehow an adult got in there and laid eggs, or laid eggs on or near the intake or something along those lines, and then they all hatched and were receiving about the same amount of food and voila, all the same size? maybe? that's my best guess anyway :tongue: 

Can't wait to see updated tank shots!


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## lauraleellbp

talontsiawd said:


> Lauralee-Very impressive, i started at the beginning, had to skip around here and there if i didn't want to spend the rest of the night reading. Love the progress, insight, and showing it when problems arisied, not only at it's best. I had to go through this fully since you have helped me alot in my shor time doing this.


Cool, I'm really glad you enjoyed it and that you found something helpful in here! I've definitely learned a ton reading through other people's journals. :thumbsup:

Kara, MTS are livebearers so no eggs, and I didn't SEE any adults in the canister (there might be some in here somewhere...) but I'm actually thinking that maybe all the snails snuck in through the sponge prefilter, and maybe they're all the same size b/c they had to all be the same tiny size to get through the filter in the first place, and I haven't had this canister very long yet for them to have had time to grow up??? :confused1: IDK for sure, but that sure was a ton of snails!


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## Complexity

I've had RCS sneak in through the holes of a prefilter. And it happened all at once, as if one found a pathway through the hole and others followed. I finally had to put a different prefilter that's much finer, but it clogs much faster, too.

I bet that's how your MTS got in there. I don't know how many baby MTS are dropped at once, but maybe the mom was on the filter and her babies got sucked in? Or crawled in? Have no clue. But it looks like you have a MTS farm going!

BTW, I inadvertently found a way to catch MTS in a tank. When I moved my 20Long tank, I drained most of the water out and covered it with wet paper towels to keep the plants from drying out. When I got the tank to the house and was ready to pull the paper towel out, it was covered in MTS! There were even more just below it. It seemed as if the paper towel somehow encouraged them to come to the surface and even crawl onto the paper towel. Maybe the paper towel and lack of a light triggered them into thinking it was night so they started crawling up? Don't know. But it's a much more efficient way to catching MTS than any other method I've tried.


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## fordtrannyman

I finally got caught up on your thread.
Nice transformation. Thanks for sharing.


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## lauraleellbp

Thanks, FTM. :icon_smil I've actually been meaning to go back and do a little "photo elapse" post to show the tank's transformation over time, I'll get around to it one of these days. 

Vicki, I'll have to try that paper towel trick and see if it works. I'll need to seed my other 2 tanks with MTS once they're ready.

It took me about 2 weeks not long ago to catch enough MTS to send to a friend of mine from another forum who wanted some- for some reason they were all "wise" to my normal "bait the fish net on the bottom of the tank" snail trap. :help:


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## Complexity

I've tried the net trick, but for animals that seem so dumb most of the time, they really seem to wise up when a net is involved! :hihi:

Your photo elapse sounds wonderful! I'll be looking forward to it. In fact, I may use your idea with my own tank. It has certain seen its share of changes over time!


----------



## Karackle

Oh I forgot about the livebearer thing! Weird! It must be something along the lines of only the ones a certain size could get in or mom dropped them on or near the filter or something like that. Crazy. Silly animals, always getting into mischief! 

Like Vicki, I would also love to see a photo elapse of your tank and may steal your idea on some of my tanks to see how they've evolved! :hihi:


----------



## lauraleellbp

*An historical recap*

I gathered all the supplies for this tank in Feb 08.

90gal tank
DrF&S stand
Solar 4x54watt T5HO
AquaClear 110
Rena Filstar XP2 (replaced later by an XP4)
175lb mix of Flourite black, Flourite black sand, black ColorQuartz, black gravel, and peat










By March I'd soaked all my driftwood and did my very first planting in the tank (this picture was taken immediately after filling the tank for the first time):










By the middle of April I'd saved up $ to buy more plants, and transferred fish over from some of my other tanks. I also broke down my 10gal to move in the E. tenellus 'narrow' carpet:










I'd also pretty much finalized my driftwood arrangement after playing around with it a bit:










And by the end of April the "bones" of the tank were pretty much in place:



















May was a rough month. The beginning of the month I lost my long-time clown loaches and tiger barb after a freaky water change incident (still not 100% sure what killed them but I know it was immediately following the water change) and then I did a big rescape of the tank to add more plants, neglected to do a large water change afterwards, and triggered a massive Green Water outbreak.





































I made a very unpopular decision to just wait the GW out... and was actually rewarded with my first Kleiner bar sword flower and also my first GBR spawn during this time. Oh, I forgot that I also started stocking. I ordered Corydoras schwartzii, C. pygmaeus, & Otocinclus mariae from BoxLot. None of the C. pymaeus made it, but most of the rest of those fish are OK. I picked up the 6 GBRs from my LFS, and they were spawning in my QT tank within just a few days... I had to break QT and move them over to my 90gal b/c with 6 rams in a 29gal tank the aggression was out of control. I then promptly had to remove a little Apisto from the 90gal b/c it couldn't get along with the Rams... and Jaidexl is now the current owner of this feisty little fish. :biggrin: Anyways here's a few pics of the tank as it slowly cleared up (took about 8 weeks):



















So it was well into July before the tank finally cleared up:










And by the end of July the tank looked like this:










August I rearranged all the background plants:




















And added the Gold nugget plecos that started chomping on my beautiful Kleiner bar :icon_frow:










I think this is my favorite picture of my tank, taken in the middle of Sept:










October and not much has changed other than the decline of the Kleiner bar is more visible:










And these are the most recent pics, taken just a few weeks ago:



















So that's it so far!

I don't anticipate huge changes from here on out; mostly just letting things grow in and keeping the Bacopa trimmed. :icon_smil The tank is stocked just how I want it, other than at some point I will probably remove the sword-slaying pleco and replace it with a more plant-friendly one.


----------



## unirdna

That was a fun recap!


----------



## Syris

Great summary recap.
Man that green water was pretty thick looking at its peek, glad you had the patience to wait it out.


----------



## bsmith

Nice recap. I dont think I could have gone through all 47 pages with my eyeballs still intact! The progression of your tank is very similar to my 29g (now a 37). 

I love GNP's! I actually love all plecos especially the smaller types. 

Keep up the good work.


----------



## Karackle

Nice recap! it's fun to see the way it evolved, and man oh man i'd forgotten how think the GW got! but everything remained happy and healthy so waiting out seems like it worked just fine! 

I think i really might steal your idea of a pictoral recap, even if only for myself, it's fun to see it all in a row like that!


----------



## Tex Gal

That was fun! Still have the Gold Nugget? He's a mess with the Kleiner bar!


----------



## lauraleellbp

Thanks, all. Yes, the GNPs are both still in there. I'm getting down to only a very few leaves left on that sword, though, so I do need to make a decision soon.


----------



## rekles75

Great recap, I forgot all about the GW. Tank looks great.


----------



## cah925

I forgot how bad your GW was, the water looks crystal clear now. Your patience was rewarded.


----------



## Complexity

I very much enjoyed seeing the tank's changes as time went on. What a great way to appreciate the journey the tank has taken!

I really do want to steal your idea. I'd love to see more people do this!


----------



## lauraleellbp

Haven't had a bit of GW other than that one time. For me, waiting it out was the way to go. My theory is whatever nutrients triggered it in the first place were all used up. Of course, I've also been very careful to always do a water change after any 'scaping work now, too LOL

I've got some more Hydrocoytle and E. 'vesuvius' to add around the driftwood and around the E. 'kleiner bar.' If I get around to planting them tomorrow I'll take some more pics.

The temps on the tank are staying lower, running 78-80F. Looks like the Rams won't be spawning with the temps this low, haven't seen a spawn in about a month now. I thought about cranking up my Hydor a little, but I decided that giving the male a "winter break" probably isn't a bad idea. So the tank has officially been "winterized" 

Only other "major" change I'm considering is moving my Eheim 2217 over to this tank as I'd originally planned. The flow it's putting out on my 46gal is proving too strong for my P. weitzmani; they get all blown around the tank when they come out of their territories to feed. I'm thinking of getting another XP3 or possibly an XP3 and putting that on the 46gal instead... If I do that, I'll replace the AquaClear 110 with the 2217. We'll see.


----------



## deleted_user_16

how hot does the tank normally get during summer laura?


----------



## lauraleellbp

I don't think it ever got over 82F. But I did leave the lids off and ran the ceiling fan a few times. When I had PCs over this tank (VERY briefly, before I even put in the substrate) the water was up to 86F and that was still back in the spring before it really GOT hot.


----------



## deleted_user_16

oh darn, i was wondering how the xray's would hold up in really warm water at like 86, because here it gets quite warm in summer and i was wondering if the xrays could hold up what the rams can.


----------



## lauraleellbp

According to FishBase.com, 75-82F is ideal. I suspect that they would probably be OK for short periods. Rummies or Cardinals would take those temps best out of most of the tetras I'm familiar with, though.


----------



## deleted_user_16

well, maybe i should stick to a species tank then , cause the xrays can get caught in the Lllanos Plains (yes, still doing biotope), i'll have to do research on the cardinals tho, no idea if they come from there. the periods will not be short, my room has bad circulation, stays above 85-90 even during nights. but during day sometimes over 100, i dont know why the tank doesnt get that high though.


----------



## lauraleellbp

Black neons would be another to look into.

I think Cardinals are pretty wide-spread, so I'd be surprised if they aren't found there. 

You need to plan to enter your biotope into next year's AGA for sure; need some more biotopes represented!


----------



## deleted_user_16

i hope it'll be ready by then.i think i may start a new thread. only thing is, im thinking they may not be found there, the admin of planetcatfish.com went there ona collecting trip and only found rams and a few dull colored fish, only grey and a few farowellas. the Llanos is a seasonal plain that has rivers that dry up in summer and fish get trapped there, rams just live there permanently. hatchets are found there, but get too big for a 60p.


----------



## monkeyruler90

man, ive been keeping up with your thread in TFH since the first post, it was pretty cool to see the progress. im not sure if you remember but we set up our tanks on the same weekend, i thought it was pretty funny, however your tank looks about 20292384209834 times way better than mine. 

great thread, i really liked that you always kept us informed and took pics throughout the entire process. good job =)


----------



## lauraleellbp

monkeyruler90 said:


> man, ive been keeping up with your thread in TFH since the first post, it was pretty cool to see the progress. im not sure if you remember but we set up our tanks on the same weekend, i thought it was pretty funny, however your tank looks about 20292384209834 times way better than mine.
> 
> great thread, i really liked that you always kept us informed and took pics throughout the entire process. good job =)


Yep, i do remember!  Thanks for the compliment. Love to see pics of your tank, all the same!


----------



## lauraleellbp

I walked into my office this morning and noticed something interesting. There was a patch of sunlight that is coming through my blinds and lands EXACTLY outlining the patch of E. tenellus in my tank that is growing and filling in very quickly. I may try an experiment and start leaving my blinds open during the day.

I finally got around to planting the additional Hydrocoytle and E. 'vesuvius'; I'll try and get some pics tomorrow after the leaves have adjusted from having floated so long in the tank.


----------



## PasD

I really like how your tank has evolved over the past few months. What type of hydrocotyle do you have?


----------



## lauraleellbp

It's Hydrocoytle leucocephala. Really easy to grow.


----------



## lauraleellbp

Updated pictures:

Can you tell where the sunlight falls on the E. tenellus?





































My poor dilapidated kleiner bar










Still have a little swordlet growing, though!










My "dwarf" E. africanus 










I think I may finally throw in the towel on Stargrass. I think it actually would do OK but my Cories really like this spot in my tank, so they keep breaking the stems. Since I've got almost no nutrients in the water column, they don't do so well when they get separated from the root systems this way :icon_roll



















The Bacopa stems are a little hardier. The Cories are hiding back in the Bacopa, today...










There are 2 Gold nugget plecos and a GBR pretty well hidden in this pic










One fat, lazy C. scwartzi


----------



## CL

The best it's looked yet!


----------



## brt_p

is it really Kleiner Bar?..i thought it would be red?..


----------



## fishboy87

If your kleiner bar is dying, I would consider removing the mother plant and planting one of the baby plants in it's place. Did you already remove the pleco. If so, the sword's leaves look like they are still shooting out. Great tank and ditto on what clwatkins10 said!


----------



## lauraleellbp

The new leaves do come in bright red.

The sword is still putting out new leaves and plantlets, so it's not dying, the leaves just keep getting eaten by one of the plecos. I haven't done anything about the pleco yet, I haven't quite decided for sure what I'm going to do with it...


----------



## jaidexl

Try adding some giant hygro, you still have a tore up plant in the tank but the other one has more of a fighting chance, and hygro is easy to pull out on picture day. Mine loved hygro, just depends if they're sick of sword snacks, I guess.


----------



## lauraleellbp

Unfortunately, Hygros don't fit into my "theme." I'm going to end up removing the L018, I'm sure... just a matter of do I want to replace him, and if so, what with?

You haven't seen any Queen Arabesques in town anywhere, have you?


----------



## lauraleellbp

I finally managed to get an accurate count of the C. schwartzi. I'm down to 6, apparently. Out of all this time, I've only ever seen one body. I strongly suspect that I've lost them to jumping and they've been snacks for the household Four Furry Furies. 

I went back and looked at some old pics of the GNPs, and I believe they've both grown several inches since I've had them! The albino LF BN that came with the GNPs (and is housed in my 46gal) has probably quadrupled in size; it's just about a full-grown adult now.

I may add a different species of Cories to this tank at some point to bring the numbers back up to 12. I saw some C. concolor and some laser striped Cories at an LFS in town and they're pretty fantastic looking. We'll see.


----------



## unirdna

Wrapping driftwood in pennywort is something I have not seen anyone else do. It gives the impression of an old, dead tree being taken over by vines. Very creative! -something Oliver Knott would do.


----------



## lauraleellbp

Thanks, Ted! :icon_redf That's really high praise, Oliver Knott is one of my favs!


----------



## rpayer

Looks great!


----------



## Karackle

Looking great! Can definitely tell where the sun is shining on that carpet! :hihi: 

Your poor kleiner bar! Glad to hear it's hanging on and still putting out new leaves and plantlets!


----------



## lauraleellbp

Thanks. 

Snapped a quick FTS tonight while taking pics of my other tanks. 










The Bacopa and Pennywort are going through a growth spurt. :icon_roll


----------



## CL

Gettin' prettier everyday


----------



## ZooTycoonMaster

C'mon Laura, an update?


----------



## Tex Gal

It's really getting there!!! Your E. Africanus is growing! Good going! I see the E. Quad in there. Looks nice!


----------



## Complexity

lauraleellbp said:


> The Bacopa and Pennywort are going through a growth spurt. :icon_roll


Definitely! They're taking over now!

Looking really good. You'll be starting to trim plants any day now. :smile:


----------



## Karackle

definitely looking great! I second the request for updates!


----------



## lauraleellbp

I'll try to find where my hubby's stashed the camera this week and see if I can get some more pics. I'm hoping for my own camera for Christmas, but we'll see...

I need to do a little work in the tank; it's very overdue for a water change, the Pennywort has gone bezerk and needs a trim, and I've finally given up once and for all on Stargrass. I think it would do OK in low lighting if I dosed any ferts, but the nutrient-free water column + low light has just proved too much.

I'm going to put some of the Najas that's busy taking over my 46gal in there instead. I only hope that the Cories don't thwart my plans by breaking all the stems all the time; this spot is their favorite spot and that was part of the problem with the Stargrass. I may end up having to stick some swords over there if the Najas doesn't work...


----------



## lauraleellbp

Haven't made any of those changes yet, but I snapped a few lousy pics with my camera phone anyways:


----------



## monkeyruler90

cardinals always make a tank look so pretty
great job. the plants look, although does the sword look like it has munched leaves or is it just the photo?


----------



## Karackle

Wow you weren't kidding the pennywort is going berserk! Hahaha The tank looks great though, really filling in well!

And I agree monkeyruler, cardinals really do add a special beauty to a tank.


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## rpayer

Tank looks great!


----------



## lauraleellbp

Wow I can't believe it's been a month since I updated this thread!

Not much has happened, though. I did lose a C. schwartzi this week- he had tumors or cysts growing from between his scales and a big one on his underside, though- so I just left him alone and he died about a week or two after I first noticed all the growths. 

The rest of the fish look pretty good; especially since I restocked on frozen foods. I was out for a month or so- and it's truly amazing how much difference it makes in their color and activity levels, supplementing with frozen foods versus just dried!

I need to do some work in the tank, the Hydrocoytle needs trimming and replanting in areas, and I'm going to try again to put the Najas where I want it instead of where it wants to float around... probably a lost cause LOL. I do like the texture it adds to the tank, though- so I won't remove it.

I've still got that same "problem spot" I've had all along, though- it's where the Cories like hanging out on the right side of the tank, so I have a hard time getting anything rooted and stable. I'd really like some reds in that spot, though- so I may get and try some Indian swords there. Especially since they're a sword I'm still missing from my "collection" LOL

Anyways, I'm still figuring out the new camera I got for my BDay, but here are a few pics:

Newest swordlet









SwordMuncher Suspect #1


















My "problem spot"









Best shot of an Amano I've ever gotten  She's berried, too









Floaters









Right side of the tank









Down the front









Right side of tank, front view









Standoff with a female GBR









Left side of the tank


----------



## CL

The foreground is filling out nicely!


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## rekles75

I agree, The foregrounds looking great.


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## Karackle

Tank is looking wonderful Lauralee!!! It looks like it's getting so lush! I'd love to see a full tank shot!

And YAY! for the new camera!!! that's what I'm getting for my birthday too, I share your excitment!  heehee


----------



## Ozymandias

man been along time since i looked at this and i have to area everything is filling in nicely and all the fish look happy.


----------



## lauraleellbp

And- I got my first video of the tank.

I've ordered a tripod for this camera, so hopefully my next one won't be so shaky (Sorry! Doesn't help any that the cat decided he wanted to be in my lap while I was trying to film, either...)


----------



## monkeyruler90

awesome video! and im glad to see the update pics. everything is filling in soo nice. 

for the next video can you drop a cube of food? id love to see a swarm of cardinals and tetras go crazy!


----------



## lauraleellbp

Thanks, MR90. I'll try to remember to get a vid of feeding time sometime soon. The Amanos are definitely the most aggressive feeders in my tank, though- the pigs! :icon_roll LOL


----------



## idontknow

Awesome Tank!


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## lauraleellbp

Thanks!  I love it- its so very low maintenance.

At this point the only things left I want to do is fill in that spot on the far right in front of the Bacopa (I'm still leaning towards Indian red swords ATM), and spread the Bacopa further along the back wall of the tank, all the way over to the filter intake. I think this will add a little more "balance."

Heh- my 9,999th post. Fitting, I suppose- my first post on here ever was about this tank.


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## oldpunk78

your tank gives off a very peaceful vibe.


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## ColeMan

wow, laura, I don't think I've ever seen anyone with 10,000 posts before...:icon_eek:...
Which tank did the 2217 end up making it on? The 46? 

Cool video - it reminds me of the cardinals I just lost...which I found out was not entirely my fault. Well, yes, it kind of was. My friend (who gave them to me) neglected to tell me that he had started off with about 3 times as many cardinals, and they had all died 1 by 1 for the previous 2 weeks. I got his last 8, and though they have stopped dying, I'm down to only 2. I thought that I was safe, considering they were the only fish in his tank and he told me they were healthy (which they were, in theory: they were healthy _looking_ until they died), but alas, no luck. I even had scaled back dosing significantly to ease the transition from his sterile, non-planted tank to my high-light, CO2 injected tank; I thought everything was ready to go. 

However...I was talking to a LFS owner who was telling me his stock of cardinals had been horrible for the past year, despite the fact that many were farm-raised in florida (or so he says). This was the original source for my friend's stock (and mine now). I guess the point I'm trying to make is twofold: 1) your video makes me want some more cardinals, and 2) securing good, healthy stock from a trusted supplier is essential...easier said than done, I suppose. I swear, though, that I never, ever used to have (or hear about) the acclimatization issues with cardinals that I do now...or maybe that's just 'wishful remembering.' 

Tank(s) look great, by the way. Nice to catch up on your journal, it's been a while.....


----------



## lauraleellbp

Yeah, the 2217 is on the 46gal. I've got an XP4 and an AquaClear 110 on this tank for now, though there's an XP3 sitting beside me ATM that I'm going to replace instead of the AC 110 whenever I get around to it (need some more media first).

I really think that a lot of the diseases that have entered into LFSs originated with how prevalent it has become to import Asian stock. 1) fish over here have no natura immunities to those diseases, 2) the way those fish are mass-produced it makes for weaker genetic stock and the spread of diseases rampant throughout the populations, and 3) the trip over here weakens those fish that were healthy so they manage to pick up everything else they might not have started off with.

That stuff gets into LFS tanks- which are consistently full of an ever-rotating population of fish and rarely broken down and sterilized, infecting population after population of fish- and IMO it's amazing that any stock survive at all. :icon_eek:


----------



## Pinto

Nice Tank!! great pictures too!


----------



## fishboy87

Great tank! If you keep posting at this speed, 100,000 posts in 10 years or under! My only suggestion is that you have something especially tall like a val of some-sort in the left side/corner.


----------



## lauraleellbp

fishboy- thanks for the suggestion. The Echinodorus africanus that are currently there have the potential to more than fill in that spot... IDK that they will for sure in my particular tank, but they can get HUGE. Time will tell. :icon_mrgr

Did some much-needed tank maintenance tonight. Trimmed back and spread the Bacopa further along the back of the tank. Stuffed as much of the Najas as I could collect under the driftwood (IDK I might end up pulling the Najas all together... we'll see). Planted 2 Echinodorus 'red devil' in my "trouble spot" in the hopes that they will take and add a little color to that spot. I kind of like the way they balance out the E. africanus on the other side of the tank.

Also finally got around to swapping out the AquaClear 110 for a Rena XP3. This leaves an XP4 and an XP3 on this tank. It's much quieter in my office now, with no HOB waterfalls running. Just waiting for the XP4 to quit it's startup "burping"- for some reason this filter holds air much worse than any of my other XPs. :icon_roll

Did a 30% PWC. I don't think I've done a water change on this tank since before Christmas... oops! 

Still haven't done anything with the GNPs. My kleiner bar is still putting out new leaves, but it still looks pathetic. I think I'm going to take the plecos to the club meeting on the 22nd for sale, and see if anyone wants them.

I'm waiting for things to settle a little, and then I'll get some new pics.


----------



## medicineman

It is a good idea to take out the plant destroyer. Be it nipper, sucker or pesky un-planter. 
I did removed mine as much as I can and am glad about it.

Btw I can see that your sword never cease throwing out plantlets! :icon_mrgr


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## SeaSerpant

Sorry i haven't been on that lately but your aquarium is improving magnificently, i love the contrast between colours and the wood that you have in your aquarium is awesome, It looks like your doing a really good job,Keep up the good work!


----------



## lopez_316us

Update........:icon_roll

:fish::fish::fish::fish:


----------



## TheCryptKeeper

Lmao..


----------



## Karackle

Hey LauraLee, I've been a bit scarce recently, but I was hoping to see an nice update on this tank, how is it looking? I'd love to see some updates! (though i have been remiss with my updates too so I can't really judge too harshly! :hihi


----------



## CL

Wait a minute- how did I get unsubscribed from this? Bump for updates!!


----------



## lauraleellbp

Wow I can't believe it's been so long since I updated this! Welll- this is the real reason I only keep low tech tanks; I tend to get busy with other projects and so I prefer projects that are super low-maintenance. My tank has been utterly and completely neglected for months now. 

In that time, one of my cats perfected the art of jumping up to the top of the tank (he's a true acrobat!!!!) and pulling up the plants to eat them. As a result, all my Hydrocoytle is pretty much gone (it had grown up to trail the surface) and much of the Bacopa with it (since it got all tangled up in the Hydrocoytle). So... the plants are looking pretty pathetic. Haven't ever removed the plecos, either, so the swords are all looking very ratty as well. Fish are all doing great, though. 

I'm finishing up a big landscaping project out in the front yard, and actually plan on moving this tank from my office into my living room, so that's another reason I'm not doing anything with it ATM. I think I'll replace the Bacopa with some Val nana after I move it.

Moving it is going to be a huge project. My current plan is to drain it down to an inch of water and see if my hubby and I can get the tank stand up on those furniture rollers, and roll it out into the living room. We've got all tile, so hopefully it will work.

If not.... well.... I just hope the tank doesn't crack!!!!


----------



## TheCryptKeeper

well.... keep us updated on how it goes. you cat really enjoys your planted tank keeping skills though!


----------



## idontknow

lauraleellbp said:


> Haven't ever removed the plecos, either, so the swords are all looking very ratty as well. Fish are all doing great, though.


Was that your gold nugget causing havok?


----------



## lauraleellbp

Well, lots of changes.

Most of them not so good.

About a month ago I drained the tank down to an inch or two of water and my hubby and I managed to push it out into the living room.

Unfortunately, the move triggered an ammonia spike that I couldn't get under control even with Prime and water changes, and I lost over 1/2 the livestock within the following 48 hours.

I'm down now to:

0 Amanos (they ALL died! About two dozen )
2 Cardinal tetras (lost 30ish)
12 or so Pristellas (lost about 1/2)
1 of the blue female GBRs (lost 4)
1 clown pleco (lost the 2 GNPs)
4 or 5 Cories (don't think I lost any from the move, but these have slowly dwindled down over the past year, I think from jumping?)
?? Otos (no clue, but I didn't lose any of these from the move either)

In the months prior to the move, I also neglected the tank and let the surface get choked up with floaters, hydrocoytle, and bacopa. The end result is I had to pull out all of those plants, and my E. tenellus carpet has died back quite a bit. Since removing the floaters, I've had a BBA outbreak. :icon_conf

To add insult to injury, my Solar fixture pooped out. I'd left the tops off the tank for too long, and let water deposits build up on the fixture, and I burnt out the ballast (it flamed a bit, even... oops).

So, I now have one of the new black Solar T5HO 5x54s now, with a mix of 10k and Plant grow bulbs (still only running 2 bulbs at a time).

I'm going to pull the Bacopa and replace it with Val nana, and I also have some more E. tenellus 'pink' to fill in the sparce areas.

Here's a few pics of the current sorry state of things (pics taken with the temp 36" T5NO that I used while waiting on the new Solar to come in):

The tank on its new wall:









Right side









Left side









At least the Kleiner bar is now able to put up leaves that don't get munched to death









Still puts out swordlets... I need to call it "Old Faithful" or something lol









Some of the fish


----------



## rasetsu

Wow, that's terrible news. How much water did you remove? Did you replace it all with new water or did you save it in barrels?


----------



## James From Cali

Wow laura im sorry to hear about the plant mass. Especially about the loss of your fish. Its a blesing in disguise. I hope things make a quick Uie for ya.


----------



## lauraleellbp

For logistical reasons (in other words, I didn't have enough buckets) I replaced all but a few gallons with new water.

I actually don't think it was the water change that was the issue, I think the substrate got too stirred up with all the vibrating during the move (we had to push it across the tile floor, there was no way we could lift it at all).

Since I've got a really deep substrate, there's also a possibility an anaerobic spot was stirred up... 

I may never know for sure, but things are finally looking up now. A few days ago the Pristellas were spawning, so that's definitely a good sign.

The new Calico BN plecos from Saganco are also doing really well. roud:

And thanks, James.


----------



## Coltonorr

Sorry to hear about all the bad news. 
Guess you sort of get a fresh start...
Good luck!


----------



## Tex Gal

Glad you got it all moved. The good news is that you are now onto a new adventure. We all get to see what it will look like new again!


----------



## jaidexl

Major bummers 

I just drove half of mine down Colonial into Lehigh, in the back of a pickup, and they're AOK. Still gotta get the 65gl, 10gl, 2.5 and the reef over here though. :icon_conf 

I used all the same water except for about 10%. Are you using tap? They could have changed something on you without warning, or else your anaerobic theory makes sense in a tank that big. 

Our well water out here has a KH of 10, versus 3 in Ft. Myers. Sure am glad I have an RODI. :icon_mrgr

Oh, I like your tank's new wall.


----------



## lauraleellbp

No, I'm on well water, aka liquid rock :icon_conf

Glad so far the tanks are making the move, oh how I HATE moving!!!

Thanks for the encouragement, all! :icon_mrgr


----------



## lauraleellbp

More mixed news.

The Pristellas were spawning again this morning, so the water params are definitely stabized.

But BBA is even worse, looks like I'm going to have to take more invasive measures to deal with it (as opposed to my usual "leave it alone and it goes away" method LOL)

I'm pretty sure the BBA gained a foothold b/c I removed all the floaters... but I don't want to add floaters back in, b/c I need to give the E. tenellus some light so it has a chance to re-establish itself. A little bit of a catch-22.

I've got plenty of Excel and hydrogen peroxide lying around, so now i've got to find my syringe....


----------



## lauraleellbp

Got a few pics of the new Calico BN plecos recently in from Saganco. They're pretty (and tiny!) little things. Also got a few other pics while I was at it... the BBA and GSA photograph well, don't you think? Looks like I've got some Clado, Cyano, and mebbe even Staghorn in there to boot... :icon_roll
































































How many fish can you find in this pic?


----------



## jaidexl

It really doesn't look that bad, just a little neglected but not like it was drop kicked across the house or anything.  I'm sure it'll bounce right back.


----------



## hydrophyte

sorry to hear about your fish losses. that's always a bummer when that happens. i get attached to my fish--some more than others.

your new animals look nice. i like that little pleco.


----------



## Karackle

I'm so sorry to hear about the fish losses! 

While the algae does photograph quite well, the tank doesn't look like it's so bad it can't bounce back. That's the beauty of our low light/tech/maintenance tanks isn't it? They can go neglected for quite some time and will usually bounce back quite quickly and easily!  

Those new plecos are beauties! How big do they get? My boyfriend needs some algae eaters in his 60g and I might need some in my 30g once I move and rearrange who lives where :hihi: 

Tank looks great on that wall though!


----------



## monkeyruler90

wow, i remember following this tank even before you set it up. im sorry about all the fish that died but im sure you'll get some more. in a few weeks the tank will bounce back. when are you getting the new light?


----------



## lauraleellbp

Thanks, all.

Kara- the BN plecos should get about 4" as adults (they're only 1-2" now). My longfin albino is close to 5", but most of that is his tail. (I'm usually not big into albino fish, but he's really grown on me, I think he's lovely :biggrin

Monkeyruler- it's on there now, I actually had it already when I took those pics, just hadn't roped my hubby into helping me assemble the legs.


----------



## Karackle

heeheehee your Albino with his billowy fins is definitely a beauty! Though I do tend to agree that usually albino fish are not my favorites. 

4" isn't so bad, certainly the 60g is big enough for a few.


----------



## lauraleellbp

Finally got around to doing some much-needed maintenance on this tank. Scraped all the GSA off the front glass (it's getting sunlight now from the french doors *sigh*) and pulled most of the Bacopa as it was choked with BBA. Also pulled much of the E. tenellus for the same reason.

Planted a bunch more E. tenellus (got some 'pink' and 'micro' mixed in there now), and also added a bit of Marselia minuta to the far left corner.

I've decided to go with Corkscrew vals for the back right. And I'm going to put Hydrocoytle back around the driftwood again, I really liked that look.

Tank's looking really sparse right now, though!!


----------



## lauraleellbp

Wow, looking at these pics I can really see a difference now between the 6700/plant grow combo of bulbs in there now versus the 10k/power glo combo I used to run! I liked the 10k/power glo colors much better... I've still got those bulbs in the old fixture, so I'll probably swap them out.


----------



## Kayen

Looks good.
E tenellus is an awesome plant.


----------



## hydrophyte

This will be a treat to see it grown in when you get back from your trip. Who will tend it in the meantime?


----------



## lauraleellbp

I'll have to twist my hubby's arm to get him to feed the fish while I'm gone LOL

And I love E. tenellus, too, def one of my favs. Nice and undemanding. :smile:


----------



## @[email protected]

i agree. e. tellenus is a great plant. grows fast, is easy to take care of, etc.
though all my tanks are too small for me to use it as a foreground.


----------



## monkeyruler90

yeah, the 10000k definitely makes the plants look different. i like it over the 6500k


----------



## lauraleellbp

I'm hoping the Marselia minuta will fill in OK; I'm not sure how well they'll do since they're such slow growers and are getting so much light. I'm afraid they're gonna get algae-choked faster than they can fill in, but time will tell.

I'm still debating whether I want to put the P. weitzmani in this tank. They're such shy fish, I'm a little concerned that even once I add in the Vals they won't feel comfortable.

I may just restock 50 or so Cardinals, and call it a day. I do love how the Cardinals show off in the tank, even from across the room...

Having a hard time keeping the new E. tenellus planted; the Cories and Plecos keep pulling it all up. *sigh*


----------



## ikuzo

i kept marsilea in my 10 gallon with 42 watts of lighting. they grow pretty fast with no significant algae problems. no worries there.


----------



## dewalltheway

Tank is looking very nice Laura! A side note on the lighting. I had 6700K CF bulbs and when I bought new ones this past spring, I replaced them with the 10,000K bulbs and some with a 6700/10,000K. Ever since then I have been battling GSA & BBA. You may want to give your 6700K bulbs a try for a month or two and see how things go with your algae. Just a thought!


----------



## lauraleellbp

ikuzo said:


> i kept marsilea in my 10 gallon with 42 watts of lighting. they grow pretty fast with no significant algae problems. no worries there.


I'm sure you were running CO2 on the tank, though, correct? IDK, time will tell...

DWW- knowing me, I won't get around to swapping out the bulbs till after I get back from Bolivia, anyways, so they'll have a good 4 weeks to see if they grow on me.


----------



## bsmith

That is a pretty pleco, it almost looks like a baby clown. Im not sure what the lighting you have on the tank is but if there is no co2 then you can usually expect bba to grow on the marselia. I have ALLOT of light in my mini-m and when my co2 gets even low bba pops up in the more intensely lighted areas.


----------



## RipariumGuy

WOW!!! Amazing!!


----------



## lauraleellbp

Thanks, Jake, it looked a lot better before I completely neglected it for 4 months, though :icon_redf

bsmith, I'm running 2x54 watts of T5HO, no CO2. The BBA sprang up when I removed all the floaters (they'd completely taken over and choked the surface, so that's another reason my E. tenellus suffered...)

And yes, I'm really taken with the Calico BN plecos, I really think they're lovely. I don't have any plans to deliberately try and breed them, but I wouldnt be upset if they did once they grow up. :icon_smil


----------



## lauraleellbp

Worked on the tank yesterday for the first time in months.

About 12-15x P. weitzmani, my albino long fin bushy-nosed pleco (ALFBNPl rofl), and 20x or so Amano shrimp (previously housed in my 29gal) are now all in the tank. Surprisingly, I see the P. weitzmani in this tank more often than I did in the 29gal. I think the Pristella tetras are serving as dither fish for them.

I cleaned the XP4 for the first time in... probably 6 months?







It was really mucky. (I did clean the XP3 a few months ago, but the XP4 I haven't touched in eons.) The Purigen bag was the brownest I've ever seen Purigen. Got it bleaching now, and I put a new bag in the filter. I'll clean the XP3 in a week or two, too.

Also pulled over a gallon (literally) of Clado out of the tank. Manually. Stripping it from leaves by hand. I now have long prunes attached to my palms. They used to be fingers.

Still need to do some more work on the Clado, replant the E. tenellus that has gotten pulled up in the process, and scrape the GSA off the tank walls, and then I'll do a nice water change (prolly 30-50%). Hoping to finish all this work today.

Since the 29gal is going to work, my 46gal will be used to QT 50 or so Cardinal Tetras and also a half dozen new Cories, as soon as either Invertz Factor or RMC Aquatics have them in stock again. These will round out the stocking on the tank. Though I have been tempted a few times to get more GBRs so my one remaining female won't be lonely...

I also pulled all my DW, as it needs a good Clado-cleaning and also I'm going to move it over some. I was surprised at how fragile the big pieces have become; all the BN plecos in the tank have really been giving it a go-over. I'm debating putting my "big honking" piece of Malaysian DW in this tank, since I'm not using it anywhere else ATM... I may just run all my DW through the dishwasher today and play with it all to come up with a good arrangement.

I'm debating when will be the best time to place a plant order. We'll be leaving for Arizona for a few days next week, and spend Thanksgiving in Georgia, so I want to be sure to not only be home when the plants arrive but also have time to plant them all.

I think I'm going to place the order today so that they arrive this week, though.

So this tank hopefully will be looking nice again soon.


----------



## Church

Just thinking about a gallon's worth of clado trips my gag reflexes. YUCK!!!

(glad your tank is that much more clado-free now! )


----------



## lauraleellbp

It actually looked cool as a carpet... looked like moss. If it hadn't been overgrowing and choking out all my other plants I probably would have left it. But the stuff is just too crazy invasive. It was also choking my filter intakes. I have to clean the intakes at least once an hour now, I've stirred so much of the stuff up!


----------



## jaidexl

Maybe you can ball it up and sell it as marimo balls. :hihi:


----------



## lauraleellbp

OK so here's a progress shot. I think I like the Malasian driftwood mixed in with thos larger pieces of Manzanita. I think it helps create more perspective. I was able to arrange the Manzanita pieces boardering the areas where the E. tenellus has grown up naturally.

I'll be filling in the back right corner with the Italian Val once it arrives, and planting the narrower version of E. tenellus 'micro' (you can see it all floating ATM lol) along the inside of the bend in the Manzanita.

What do ya'll think?


----------



## eyebeatbadgers

lauraleellbp said:


> What do ya'll think?


It looks bare again. For such a mature tank it looks like it's lacking plants to me.

Have you ever thought about moving the intake pipe from the center of the tank to the far right side? It would really look better in the corner. 

Plant choices are a very personal thing, but with a tank as tall and huge as yours, I would be looking for a very tall thick group of plants for the back, which your new vals may provide. 

Good luck with the progress!


----------



## lauraleellbp

I should have taken a "before" pic of all that Clado. You would have been impressed with that carpet! LOL

I feel like I'm almost starting over, actually. And I am relying on the Vals to bring in some plant height.

I'm still debating about the left back corner; those E. africanus never have grown like I know they're capable of.


----------



## CL

I'm with EBB. More plants, IMO  The E. Tenellus looks really good, though. IMO, add some large plants such as swords, tall stems and maybe some large anubias to the wood.


----------



## lauraleellbp

LOL the plants are already on order. Can't add Anubias, since it's an African plant.

What do you think of the new _hardscape, _compared to the old one? Better, worse?


----------



## eyebeatbadgers

I wasn't aware this was a biotope...

I think the hardscape is a little sparse too, you've got a lot of room that has been empty now for a while. Hardscape is cool, and you can't kill it!


----------



## lauraleellbp

Got an email from Sweet Aquatics that my plant order shipped today- that was fast! :bounce:

So I've got more pruned fingers to look forward to in my very near future. 

I got camera happy tonight. The P. weitzmani were out and about, but then of course went into hiding when I got out my camera. :icon_roll I aspire to some day catch a pic like this, that really does them justice (they are such fabulous fish!), though I know my chances are, well, nil:









This was the best pic I got

















































































I ALMOST caught a nice one of this little male... then he moved GRRRRR


----------



## demonbreedr16

Lookin' great Laura!

Kenny aka k2.


----------



## jaidexl

I'll let you in on a little trick that I think might work with those fish, works with most flashy ones. Hold a mirror against the tank and try to get them to see their reflection. If you're creative, can prop up the mirror and use a tripod, after about a hundred tries you can get one of those shots. Just a matter of overpowering their fear and replacing it with the competitive streak. That's how I used to shoot bettas, no problem getting them to come to the glass, but holding a nice flair is another story.


----------



## lauraleellbp

Sooo... I got pics of the other fish.

The albino LF pleco is loving his/her new pad upgrade:









I have to turn on the camera flash to get any detail, this fish reflects the tank light so much!









The biggest Calico BN pleco (pictured) tends to bully the albino, which I find somewhat odd, since the albino is 2x the size of the Calico









Here (he?) is again









The Pristellas were quite curious and willing to participate in the photo shoot- just, they won't hold still long enough to stay in focus


















This is the best pic I managed of one









Cardinal tetras weren't a whole lot better. I can hardly wait to restock these! I'm just waiting for RMC Aquatics or InvertzFactory to get them back in stock; apparently there were some floods in Brazil that have interfered with the supply. This should normally be a good time of year for Cardinals, as it's well into the dry season now and they're easier to harvest with the water levels low.


















I keep toying with the idea of getting some more GBRs to keep my lone female company, but I probably wont. At least, not for now.


















The Amanos are generally the most photogenic. This big female struck a nice pose









This one is berried so was feeling shy


















The C. schwartzi blend in so well with the Flourite black that I keep considering getting a lighter Cory species instead. I do really like them, though.


















How many catfish can you find in these photos? (Hint- there are also some Otos... no clue how many...)


----------



## lauraleellbp

Hiya Kenny!

Jaide- I did buy a tripod off ebay for the camera, but found it really hard to use, especially when trying to get macro shots? The swivel mechanism is jerky and I think I need a remote trigger b/c moving it around and even just pressing the button to take the photo jiggled the camera too much. I did better without it. :icon_conf

I haven't tried the mirror trick with the P. weitzmani, though- that's worth a try.


----------



## bsmith

Everything looks nice. The Pleco behavior is not too strange. I had a L183 that used to bully a Rhino Pleco that was easily 10x's its size. You know what they say "its not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog" type thing.

Have you ever seen C.Adolfoi or C.Davidsandsi? They are absolutely stunning and would look amazing with your substrate. I love both of them because of the fluorescence on their back, its very different.


----------



## demonbreedr16

Just outta curiosity, are you planning on restocking the Pristella Tetras? IMHO, I think your tank would look better w/out them and more Cardinals. Yeah, cardinals are common...but WHO can resist their colors? lol


----------



## lauraleellbp

Kenny- I think I have about 17 Pristellas remaining (I tried to count them tonight and that's the number I came up with at least 2x LOL). I'm not going to add any more, and instead I'm planning on adding 50 Cardinals to the tank (which is also why I'm not restocking GBRs again, either). Cardinals are my favorite fish and IMO are the most fabulous fish in the FW hobby, so there's a great reason for them to be so popular! roud: My P. weitzmani fit any need I may have for a "different" fish- though if I ever see those available again I WILL make room for some!

bsmith- I've had C. davisandi before, and I would definitely consider them again. Panda cories also are a possibility. I'm probably not going to get any Cories for the immediate future, though- I want to get more Cardinals first.


----------



## jaidexl

See if your cam has a 2 to 10 second delay, a lot cheaper than a remote trigger.


----------



## demonbreedr16

Well, I'd love to see a few more German Blue Rams in here, but I think you're on the right path!!

I'm trying so hard to pick a tetra and stick with it and keep a pretty big number...Really, I know the answer[Cardinals]...but most tetras are gorgeous!!


----------



## hydrophyte

Nice pictures. You have a lot of cool fish in there.


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## lauraleellbp

Walked by the tank again a minute ago and saw one of the big males out and about- caught him! Not flaring, but at least it's a full view shot LOL


















With the flash









He didn't like the flash... lol









Whaddya know; first time I've caught a pic of my Clown pleco in eons! This guy's my oldest fish now (since my Clown loaches died last year; this pleco survived that tank disaster ), I've had him since I first moved to Naples (5 years?), and he was an adult then...









And another of the Calico plecos since they posed so sweetly


----------



## Hurriken

Boo!

Nice tank.


----------



## lauraleellbp

Jaide, I may not be understanding what you mean, but I think setting the camera with a delay would give the fish I'm trying to catch time to reach the opposite side of the tank by the time the camera shoots...?

I think there's a setting on this camera to do a quick 3-series. I need to find my manual and find that setting- it might really help.

Thanks, Hydro! And Hiya Ken! :fish:


----------



## jaidexl

Yeah, I don't know what I was thinking :tongue: I use it on FTSs not fish. I think you were looking for this smiley... :iamwithst


----------



## Hurriken

Do you have an external flash and can you change the ISO/F-stop/shutter speed?


----------



## lauraleellbp

Hurriken said:


> Do you have an external flash and can you change the ISO/F-stop/shutter speed?


No external flash, and I don't think so? It's a point-and-shoot...


----------



## hydrophyte

I had never heard of that _Poecilocharax weitzmani_ before. What a funny little fish.


----------



## lauraleellbp

I really like them. They're normally a very soft water fish, but my water is liquid rock and they're still doing fine. I suppose it's not likely they'll spawn, though, which is a pity. I think I got them from Mark at RMC Aquatics last year? The juveniles aren't very flashy- but once they grow up it's an entirely different story!


----------



## Karackle

Well I personally really like the new hardscape, I think it looks very natural! I think the "big-honkin" malaysian piece fills a lot of the vertical space and I LOVE the way the manzanita curves around, definitely adds depth. I know (or think i know?) that you originally intended a combination of hardscape on open swimming space and I think this works really well for that. as long as you don't plant anything too tall in front of the big honker so as to cover it and make it disappear, I think there's just enough DW! 

can't wait to see it full of cardinals, and those p. weitzmani or very cool!


----------



## lauraleellbp

Thanks, Kara!

Yes, open on the left side is still the look I'm going for. Though I won't leave a bare spot this time, I'm hoping to get Marselia minuta to fill in there.

I went to plant the floating E. tenellus and E. 'vesuvius' last night and realized they're pretty infested with Clado. I'm hoping to get by Ace Hardware in the next day or two and pick up some potassium permanganate.


----------



## lauraleellbp

I realized it's been a long time since I tallied up my bioload in the tank. As of now, I've got:

17x Pristella tetras
2x Cardinal tetras (want 50 more)
15x P. weitzmani
1x German blue ram (female)
20x Amano shrimp
1x albino LF BN pleco (adult)
5x Calico BN plecos (juvenile)
5x Corydoras schwartzi
5x Otocinclus viattus
Who knows how many MTS

Looking at that, I think it's a pretty heavy bioload, especially once the Calicos grow up. But I'll be moving some of those plecos to other tanks down the road, so I think it'll work out just fine.


----------



## Gatekeeper

That is some stock list. How about a FTS?


----------



## lauraleellbp

There's several FTSs just before all the fish pics.

I'll get some more once all the new plants have arrived and are in. I'm hoping the package will be on my doorstep when I get home from work today. :icon_mrgr


----------



## Karackle

Sounds like a good stocking list to me! I love the way large school of cardinals look, there's definitely a reason they are popular!!! I tried to get my boyfriend to get a large school of cardinal tetras for his 60g, but he has this idea that he wanted all black and white fish so he went with black neons as his large school. The tank had a mini crash at one point so once we move the tank needs a few more inhabitants....maybe I can convince him this time around 

Can't wait to see the FT shots once you've got the new plants in there!!!  marsilea minuta would look really cool, i think it will add nice depth because it will add another color and texture to the carpet :thumbsup:


----------



## Gatekeeper

Ahh. I thought maybe you had the vals and stuff added.

Waiting patiently. :icon_roll


----------



## lauraleellbp

gmccreedy said:


> Ahh. I thought maybe you had the vals and stuff added.
> 
> Waiting patiently. :icon_roll


LOL

I was thinking they might have been there when I got home last night... I forgot about no mail for Veterans' day. :icon_conf Hopefully tonight...


----------



## lauraleellbp

Well the order from Sweet Aquatics was here when I got home. I wasn't all that happy with it, however. The portions were good, but the plants had been crammed together in the box so badly that almost every leaf had been broken off the Ludwigia repens and the Hydrocoytle leucocephala (I just trashed those), and the E. tenellus was in pretty bad shape as well. The Lilaeopsis I'm not sure if will make it or not; those pots were just smooshed right on top of each other so the plants are all bent down... I'm hoping they'll recover but I may leave them in the pots in the tank for a while just to give them a little time to recouperate before breaking them up for planting. The Indian Red sword looks OK, though it's obviously converting from emersed to submerged growth.

Suprisingly but happily, all the Crypts seemed in good shape, however. They, the Lilaeopsis, and Hygro kompakt will go with me to the office tomorrow for the 29gal.

The roots on the Vals were mostly brown, and they were full of duckweed (augh!) but I went ahead and rinsed them off best I could and got them planted. I'm expecting they'll die off quite a bit, but hopefully enough will survive to keep a good thicket going.

Standing back and looking at the tank, I realize that I need to move more of the Vals from the side to behind the driftwood, and move the Bacopa to the left along the back wall. But here's a few shots of where I'm at for now:


----------



## lauraleellbp

So, I can definitely see light at the end of the tunnel now. What remains to be done:

-PP all the E. tenellus 'micro' that's floating at the top & plant in the currently bare areas
-Move the Bacopa against the back wall over to the left
-Move some of the Vals from the right into the back
-Add to the M. minuta (should be some in the mail already)
-Put WonderGro tabs under the swords
-Restock Cardinals

And I'm done!!


----------



## bsmith

Did you talk to customer service at sweet?


----------



## lauraleellbp

Updated plant list:

Vallisneria asiatica (Italian Val)
Bacopa caroliniana
Assorted varieties of Echinodorus tenellus ('narrow,' 'red,' 'micro,' etc)
Echinodorus angustifolius
E. angustifolius 'vesuvius'
E. 'Indian red'
E. 'Kleiner bar'
E. africanus
Lobelia cardinalis
Marselia minuta

I like simplicity and repetition of shapes, and so I think the tank is going in a direction I'm happy with. The Lobelia is an experiment; I'd planned to put some L. repens where it is now, but since it arrived in such bad shape and I had some Lobelia on hand I decided to give it a try. Time will tell!


----------



## lauraleellbp

bsmith said:


> Did you talk to customer service at sweet?


No. I've got more than enough plants for my purposes so I'm just not going to worry about it. I always know I'm taking a risk when I order from commercial plant places, and I go into it knowing I'm going to be disappointed in plant quality b/c I'm always going to be comparing to plants obtained from other hobbyists. They just can't compete with us! LOL  I only ordered from them b/c I had a very specific list of things that I wanted, and they carried them all at good prices...


----------



## lauraleellbp

OK I went ahead and did my moving around, I decided it would be best to get it out of the way and let the Vals settle in where I want them. The back still looks sparse, but it's b/c there are quite a few plants back there with broken off leaves that don't show over the driftwood.


----------



## demonbreedr16

Wow! It's rebounding quick! I think I'm going to like this 'scape more then your other! 

Kenny


----------



## lauraleellbp

Thanks, Kenny.

I think this is more like the 'scape I've always had in the back of my mind...

Now I just need to fill in all the E. tenellus 'micro.' I'll probably need more than I've currently got, even if I can PP all the Clado. It'll probably have to wait till after Thanksgiving, though, since I'm headed to Arizona this weekend, and then will be getting ready for Thanksgiving (we're going camping with my family, so lots to get ready...)


----------



## Karackle

Tank is looking great! I can't wait to see the final product once you've planted everything and then to see if fill in! I think I agree, I'm digging this scape the best so far too. 

I bet the fish are happy to have some more plants to play in too!


----------



## CL

That looks a lot better :thumbsup:


----------



## Gatekeeper

I like it alot. I came over and moved some plants though.


----------



## J.B.

Nice photoshop work, Glen...I like that better as well. roud:

Make sure you get that moved when you get back, Laura


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## demonbreedr16

I like that better too!


----------



## lauraleellbp

I'll have you come move them, JB. Then you can move them all someplace else in 2 weeks... and someplace else 2 weeks after that... :bounce:

Actually, there is E. 'vesuvius' back where Glenn moved some of the E. tenellus. Just needs to grow back in from the Clado choking it out.


----------



## lauraleellbp

Well, I was in Phoenix, AZ for a long weekend, and I left the light off on the tank (It's right next to french doors so does get some indirect sunlight this time of year). I came home to NO CLADO! Barely any strands to be seen at all, even in all the plants still floating! :bounce: So I'm going to do some more work on the tank (need to plant and replant lots of E. tenellus since all the catfish pulled quite a bit up while I was gone.) Also need to clean out alot of dying emersed-growth leaves. I'll try and get some updated pics tonight too.

I'm really liking how it's all coming together. :icon_mrgr


----------



## demonbreedr16

LOL! Those darn catfish! I'm glad the tank is doing good tho!

I'm planning for a small school of Peppered Cories for the 29 [once the goldfish move to their 90CB], so I've been letting the Marsilea, E. Tenellus, &, Dwarf Sag do their thing before I buy and add those catfish...


----------



## jaidexl

lauraleellbp said:


> (need to plant and replant lots of E. tenellus since all the catfish pulled quite a bit up while I was gone.)


Super Glue Gel works well... keeps the catfish in one spot and the plants don't get touched. :red_mouth


----------



## lauraleellbp

jaidexl said:


> Super Glue Gel works well... keeps the catfish in one spot and the plants don't get touched. :red_mouth


Ya know, that's rather tempting. They've got 24 hours to undo everything I just planted, and there's 6 of them to one of me... I'm rather outmatched. I think about 1/3 of everything I planted has been floating each morning. :help:

Took these photos the other night.


















Now that the Gold Nugget plecos are gone, the swords are finally starting to grow back. I like the Indian Red sword as well, I'm surprised they aren't more common? I gave them all one of their beloved Wonder Gro root tabs.




































The Warring Plecos (or are they Lovers?)



























The C. schwartzi have decided their favorite spot in the tank is the far corner hidden among the Vals, but I caught this one out and about. The Vals are already throwing off runners, so that's good. I probably should put in some landscape boarder as a "Val Corral" soon, though.










P. weitzmani all wanted to play "I can't see you, so you can't see me!"


----------



## demonbreedr16

UGH!!! I feel your pain with the plecos Laura! My female clown plec. ran across the tank running from the male [they are breeding pair] uprooting some plants[Dwarf Sag, E. Tenellus, Green Hygro and Marsilea...a piece or 2 of each] and since my arms are burnt and I can't put them directly in the water to replant the right way, I was ready to get out the net and put the pleco in the pond for doing that!

I do have aquarium gloves so I can replant, but it sucks because I can't really plant right because the gloves are in my way. lol

They can float for a few days...until I figure out how my arms are going to do...


----------



## F22

beautiful tank!


----------



## aquagardener379

how are the rena filstars doing? i am planning on purchasing a xp3, any tips?


----------



## macclellan

lauraleellbp said:


> No. I've got more than enough plants for my purposes so I'm just not going to worry about it. I always know I'm taking a risk when I order from commercial plant places, and I go into it knowing I'm going to be disappointed in plant quality b/c I'm always going to be comparing to plants obtained from other hobbyists. They just can't compete with us! LOL  I only ordered from them b/c I had a very specific list of things that I wanted, and they carried them all at good prices...


Yeah, I wasn't too thrilled with their quality either. Prices were right though. Hopefully stuff bounces back.


----------



## F22

aquagardener379 said:


> how are the rena filstars doing? i am planning on purchasing a xp3, any tips?


what size tank you puttin the rena on?


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## aquagardener379

a 55 gallon with 6 angels a pleco and about 20 septre tertas


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## lauraleellbp

The XP3 is my favorite filter, period. Extremely user-friendly. And an XP3 should work well on a 55gal. You may need more flow if you plant it really heavily, but a powerhead should do the trick for that, if needed.


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## Dempsey

What are your thoughts on an XP3 on a 75 gallon?


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## lauraleellbp

I'd run another filter too, personally. I'm a big fan of 2 filters on tanks over 55gal anyways- just as a failsafe in case one should fail. Big tanks mean bigger investments in plants and livestock...


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## Dempsey

I have a spare Aquaclear 70. Do think that would be okay until I could get another canister?


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## lauraleellbp

Yep, you should have time before the plants all fill in. Plus stock slowly.

I started off with just an AC 110 and XP2 on this tank, then upgraded my filtration slowly over time.


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## Dempsey

Sweet. Thank you. What would you suggest? An XP2?


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## lauraleellbp

That would work, an XP2 and an XP3. You may even want 2x XP3s for flow.


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## Karackle

Oooh tank is looking quite lovely! I'm glad to hear the swords are coming back, they were gorgeous in their prime :thumbsup:

I don't know if I've mentioned it before, but I LOVE the albino longfin plec, gorgeous fish!


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## lauraleellbp

Thanks, Kara!

The Vals are continuing to send off runners, but a lot of the old growth is dying (I think it got pretty beat up in shipping). It's rather interesting how bright red the broken pieces turn when they float at the top of the tank directly under the T5HO...

I also am letting some Mexican Oakleaf float, and it's going red as well.

Still having issues keeping the new carpet plants down. I may spend some time replanting again tomorrow. I'm also looking for some more E. tenellus 'micro' to fill in the remaining bare spots.


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## lauraleellbp

I'd planned to work outside in my garden today, but the weather did not cooperate. Fortunately, we need the rain, so I guess my Poinsettias will wait till next weekend.

I finally cleaned the XP3, and it really needed it. I also ended up cleaning the XP4 again, as the flow had slowed down. It was almost as dirty as the XP3, even though I'd just cleaned it a few weeks ago! I guess my replanting stirred up even more debris than I'd realized. I'm having to regenerate the Purigen bags for both filters! I was shocked that the bag in the XP4 was just as brown as the one in the XP3.

Did a 25% water change (it's much easier to do with my new longer Python, as I now have enough hose to hook it up to an outside spigot, since my sinks don't have threads to hook up to.)

I noticed that the M. minuta are starting to put up some new leaves, too.

Spent some time removing duckweed that's hitchhiked its way back into the tank. :angryfire

Replanted the E. tenellus 'micro' and Bacopa that the catfish had pulled up since the last time, and added a few more that Macclellan sent me. I have some additional E. tenellus 'micro' and E. angustifolius 'vesuvius' coming in from EdwardN next week, that will fill in a few last bare spots and completely finish out the replanting! Yay!

I'm still having a rough time getting my hands on some more Cardinal tetras, though. Apparently just none are coming out of Brazil ATM.

The tank doesn't look much different, but I'll get some photos once it's cleared up again.


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## F22

lauraleellbp said:


> Did a 25% water change (it's much easier to do with my new longer Python, as I now have enough hose to hook it up to an outside spigot, since my sinks don't have threads to hook up to.)


Python makes a rubber adapter with a hose clamp that you can use to hook up to a sink without threads.

its called a universal adapter

http://www.aquatichouse.com/Maintenance_files/Python69A.JPG


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## ReflectiveSpoon

Holy Balls you have long fin albino plecos...0_0
But then again its hard finding good fish/plants up here in Canada....
Btw like where your tank is going..= D


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## lauraleellbp

Thanks! I was surprised how much I've fallen for that little LF pleco, too. I'm usually not a fan of albino fish, but this little girl (I now *think* it's a female) is really lovely. There's a good chance that I'll end up moving her to another tank down the road, though- just b/c she's so out of scale with the rest of the fish in the tank.

Last night I noticed one of the small male P. weitzmani is "courting" 2 of the females in the tank. I'm pretty sure that even if they spawn none of the eggs would hatch as my water is so hard, but I'd sure love to see a spawn so I'm going to try and keep an eye on them!

The P. weitzmani really stick to the areas of the tank with less flow.  They actually were enjoying the tank more when my filters were clogged; now they're mostly staying in the big clump of E. tenellus & E. angustifolius.

The courting trio are hanging out at the back wall of the tank, running up and down the wall behind the XP3 flowbar.

Oh, I forgot to mention- I also changed around my filter arrangement, and now the outputs are on the right side and intakes both on the left side. I also rearranged and lengthened one of the hoses so I can reach my Hydor inline heater from underneath the stand; I'd accidentally bumped the heater in the move, and the dial had been turned up to 90F! Fortunately, the tank was only 84F when I caught it... and now the temp is stable between 81-82F again.

I wonder if the temperature changes prompted the P. weitzmani courting?


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## lauraleellbp

Took some updated shots of the tank and fish.

Got a decent shot of the Pristellas schooling!









The swords are definitely happier and growing back


















IDK that the E. africanus will ever look like the ones in the tank they were "born" in, though...









Right side









Left side









C. schwartzi sleeping in the Vals


















All the Vals you see with roots showing are new offshoots









Lobelia cardinalis is doing really well. I'll probably top and replant the one in the back as it's already almost 2x the size of this one.









The catfish and Amanos have had this Romaine for 24 hours


















Feeding frenzy on frozen daphnia


















P. weitzmani hiding in the grass


















New leaves on the M. minuta (I may have some M. quadrifolia mixed in?) and the albino LF BN pleco strugging her stuff









I'm now positive that the biggest Calico BN is a male, he's starting to grow his bristles


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## Karackle

Wow I LOVE how this new scape is turning out! I really like how the height of the plants echos the flow of the DW, it's really great!  Can't wait to see it all filled in! :biggrin:

Glad to see the swords are recovering nicely as well


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## Coltonorr

Wow! Tanks is looking sweet! Loving the swords! 
And those are really nice pleco's.


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## lauraleellbp

Thanks, guys!

And, great news! Mark from RMC Aquatics just sent me word that he's placed an order for more Brazilian Cardinals and he'll have them in some time next week, and so should have them available for sale about the same time I'll be looking to buy, after the New Year!


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## jaidexl

Looking good! hope the cardinals work out for you.. get some extras  




lauraleellbp said:


> IDK that the E. africanus will ever look like the ones in the tank they were "born" in, though...


Who's tank is that? That carpet.. looks like somebody had some serious carpal tunnel one afternoon. :hihi:


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## lauraleellbp

That's Ghazanfar Ghori's tank from over on APC. I can't imagine how long it would take to mow all that, either... it's a 300gal tank!!! I'd want an submersible riding mower with a bag attachment.

If you're serious about wanting some Cards LMK Jaide, I'd be happy to go in on some with you.


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## jaidexl

He's got me thinking of a weed wacker invention to attach to my dewalt drill. :hihi:


I meant get some extras to cover your die off, I'll pass on those guys. I'm having a hard enough time building a solid school of chromis! Medicate all of 'em before they go in your tank!


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## lauraleellbp

That's why I like E. tenellus better than Eleocharis. No mowing.

And yeah, I definitely QT Cardinals any time I get them in. Mark said he'll get them in next week, and I won't even order them till January. Then they'll go in my 46gal for 2 weeks minimum. I'll probably worm them if Mark didn't already (I need to ask Mark if he does that- I forgot), and any signs of anything and I'll blast em with Melafix and Pimafix and leave em in QT for at least 4 weeks... no way I'm putting anything in my 90gal at this point that might be carrying something! There's a ton of fish in there!

Too bad you're having issues with your Chromis. You getting them from Boardroom?


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## jaidexl

No, from reefs2go, 3 dollars a piece and free shipping in FL. Can't beat that. I lost 3 out of 8 though, not sure what it was, tried to medicate one with kana and ridich+ but they die almost as quick as I see an issue. Everything's been good for two weeks though. I've learned something about chromis, checkered blotching means something aint right.


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## jaidexl

lauraleellbp said:


> That's why I like E. tenellus better than Eleocharis. No mowing.


Speaking of that, got any of the little pink micro stuff you wanna get rid of? I accidentally tossed all my stash in a wad of hornwort, along with some nana petite


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## funkyfish

How did I miss this I don't know  

The tank looks awesome! 
I'm kinda lazy to go through all the pages right now so what substrate are you using?


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## Gatekeeper

Do you prep the lettuce before serving? Blanched?

Tank looks good!


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## lauraleellbp

Jaide- I actually just bought more of the E. tenellus 'pink' myself, since it doesn't fill in very quickly w/out CO2... and I'm also going to put it in the 46gal, so I probably won't have any extra for a while. But if you still need some when I do, you're welcome to it!

Glenn, no, I just rinse the leaves and stick them in. I also just tried broccoli stem (had some so thought I'd give it a try since they all love cucumbers...) and after it'd been in the tank a day they seem to like that, too. I probably should have blanched that one, since it's on the tough side.

Funkyfish, thanks! My substrate is a mix; a little bit of peat on the bottom topped with a mix of Flourite black, Flourite black sand, black T grade Colorquartz, and some black gravel. There's some pretty detailed setup photos not far into the beginning of this journal.


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## Karackle

can't wait to see the tank fully stocked with cardinals again!!! I'm so glad you finally found a source for them! yay!


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## ket

Great looking tank!


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## funkyfish

lauraleellbp said:


> Funkyfish, thanks! My substrate is a mix; a little bit of peat on the bottom topped with a mix of Flourite black, Flourite black sand, black T grade Colorquartz, and some black gravel. There's some pretty detailed setup photos not far into the beginning of this journal.


I thought I saw some peat or soil at the bottom wanted to make sure  
I will check the setup, because it might m=be something I would like to do in my 55g. It looks like a great set up :biggrin:


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## lauraleellbp

I've been happy with it. Though I did ditch the gravel and replace that with more black Flourite since the original setup.

I just put mineralized soil in my 46gal, and I'm really liking that, too. That would be a really economical way for you to go with a 55gal. Commercial substrates get pretty pricey when filling a big tank.


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## hydrophyte

THis tank is looking great. You have a lot of cool fish in there. I never heard of that _P. weitzmani _before I saw it here in your thread.


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## lauraleellbp

I hadn't heard of them either until shortly before I got some. Mark at RMC Aquatics said he's getting some more in soon, and I may get some more to beef up my stock! Though that would mean putting fewer Cardinals in here... so I haven't quite decided LOL


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## funkyfish

lauraleellbp said:


> I've been happy with it. Though I did ditch the gravel and replace that with more black Flourite since the original setup.
> 
> I just put mineralized soil in my 46gal, and I'm really liking that, too. That would be a really economical way for you to go with a 55gal. Commercial substrates get pretty pricey when filling a big tank.


Mineralized soil is great! That's what I have in my 10g, got it from torpedobarb. I love it! 
I'm thinking of doing my 55g with it but we'll see I want to experiment with something else  I was thinking some fertilome soil, bone meal with kelp meal toped with pool filter sand (I don't remember for sure who's method it is :redface: but it's definitley from PT member)
I have a 14g but unfortunatley it's too late to put anything in there in the form of peat or soil. I will add some flourite to the excisting gravel in there tho.


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## TheCryptKeeper

funkyfish said:


> Mineralized soil is great! That's what I have in my 10g, got it from torpedobarb. I love it!
> I'm thinking of doing my 55g with it but we'll see I want to experiment with something else  I was thinking some fertilome soil, bone meal with kelp meal toped with pool filter sand (I don't remember for sure who's method it is :redface: but it's definitley from PT member)
> I have a 14g but unfortunatley it's too late to put anything in there in the form of peat or soil. I will add some flourite to the excisting gravel in there tho.




I love free business plugs! glad to hear you tank is doing well funky 

Laura the tank looks great as always, don't get rid off some of those cardinals, are you nuts :confused1:


on the note of cardinals, if you do get more, put dry Catappa leaves in a media bag and put it into you filter on your qt tank. I would bet that you lose next to none that way. There are all kinds of good things for fish in those leaves. I met a guy who has been in the hobby for 50yrs and he does mostly breeding now. he picked up about 1000 cardinals for tanks to start breeding and selling them and he used the catappa leaves and only lost 5!!!!! I use it now and havne't lost a single fish during qt or any other time.


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## lauraleellbp

I'm down to only 2 Cardinals now, Ken- the ammonia spike I had after moving the tank from my office out into the living room wiped out my school. So I'm finally at the point where I'm ready to add them again. They'll go in my 46gal for QT for at least 2 weeks before they'll go into this tank, though. I'm planning on worming them in there (I checked with Mark, and he doesn't worm unless he sees symptoms), and I'll hit 'em with Mela and Pimafix in there if I see anything amiss.

What are Catappa leaves? Do you know how they're supposed to work/what they're supposed to to?

Are they similar to Indian Almond leaves?


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## funkyfish

Torpedobarb said:


> I love free business plugs! glad to hear you tank is doing well funky


Anytime! My tank is doing great because of you :icon_smil


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## lauraleellbp

So I finally filled in the bare spots around the swords. I added some more E. 'vesuvius' and also a bunch of E. tenellus 'red.'

This finishes out the rescape! Now it's just a matter of letting it all grow in, and restocking all those Cardinal tetras.

Though I do think I'm going to get Pistia again as a floater... I'm trying Mexican Oakleaf now, but the stems keep breaking and being pushed down and tangling with the other plants...

Anyways, here's a few pics:









Left side finally all filled in... now to just let it all grow!









Right side- just waiting for the Vals and Bacopa to get some height again









An Oto out for a photo shoot!


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## jaidexl

Nice work! I like grassy


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## lauraleellbp

Thanks!

This tank probably should really be named "the chain sword tank." LOL

I've got at least 5 different varieites/species in there...


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## Karackle

Laura Lee, this looks great with those bare spots filled in!!! can't wait to see it once it's grown in a little, I bet it'll look fantastic once the swords get some height over the grass and the others you mentioned get their height back too.


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## jaidexl

lauraleellbp said:


> Thanks!
> 
> This tank probably should really be named "the chain sword tank." LOL
> 
> I've got at least 5 different varieites/species in there...


Did you already try V. nana in here? I have about 8 of them if you ever want to trade for some of that little red ET. I swapped them out of my 65 and put C. balansae in it's place, have had that stuff way too long and time for change, they're sitting in my killi tank cuz I don't have the heart to toss them out in the yard and don't feel like shipping them off. I'm in the process of changing the Roraima in the 65 to different ETs, pretty much the same way you're doing it.


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## lauraleellbp

No, I went with Italian Vals in this tank instead.

I just put some shabby-looking Val nana in my 46gal, though. I want an E. tenellus 'micro' carpet in there, too- and I don't have any to move over.

If you find anyone doing a rescape on a big tank and getting rid of theirs, I'll go in on it with you...


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## jaidexl

Cool, I'll let you know. I'm still in SW fish and coral shopping mode though :redface:


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## lauraleellbp

jaidexl said:


> Cool, I'll let you know. I'm still in SW fish and coral shopping mode though :redface:


Yikes. SW is SOOOO killer expensive... though some day I'm going to invest in a bigger RO unit and set up my 90gal as a discus tank and my 46gal as a seahorse tank... hmmmm, maybe I should take out a big life insurance policy on my hubby and kill him off first, since that's the only way it would happen ROFL


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## lauraleellbp

Oh I forgot to put this in-

I'm worming the tank again. Garlic/fenbenzadole food from www.AngelsPlus.com. I fasted the fish on Friday and Saturday and started them on it yesterday. I need to go back and see how long it's been, but I think it's been at least a year. I also know the Calico BNs haven't been wormed since I got them, and I can't remember about the P. weitzmani, either.

But a friend of mine found a weird red worm in some plants I sent him that had been in the 29gal with the P. weitzmani, so better safe than sorry.


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## Phil Edwards

I've found that garlic actually works better with olive oil rather than flubendizole. It doesn't have that funky aftertaste. 

~Phil


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## lauraleellbp

Phil Edwards said:


> I've found that garlic actually works better with olive oil rather than flubendizole. It doesn't have that funky aftertaste.
> 
> ~Phil


I'll remember that if I have you over to dinner with the fish. :icon_lol:


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## lauraleellbp

Did some tank maintenance today. Fortunately I finished up just before the bottom dropped out of the sky. I may need a canoe to leave the house if this keeps up. Ark, anyone?









Anyways...

Cleaned the XP3 as the flow had dropped again. Wasn't nearly as dirty as last time, but I replaced all the floss and micron pad, rinsed the sponges, and the Purigen was all brown again so I replaced that bag and am regenerating the brown one. I'll probably clean the XP4 in a week or two, it's also slowed down.

I think all these Plecos have taken quite a toll on the bioload in this tank. I'm definitely going to move 2 of them to the 46gal once I'm done using it as a QT tank. And then a few more to the new big tank I'm scheming towards putting in my office...









Scraped the GSA off the glass and did a 30% water change. 

Trimmed and replanted some of the Bacopa.

I think the plecos are chewing on the Vals, so they aren't getting tall like I'd hoped. Though they definitely have filled in well with runners. I'm trying to keep fresh veggies in the tank at all times now in hopes to lure them away from the Vals, we'll see if that works. Turns out my Plecos, snails and Amanos all love broccoli stems, and we eat fresh broccoli at least once a week so that's the plan for now.

Still waiting for the bubbles to clear and I'll get some updated pics this weekend. The Marselia minuta has been filling in well, though I'm still having issues keeping the E. tenellus 'micro' from getting uprooted by the fish, so it's not having a chance to fill in as quickly as I'd hoped.

OH- and I hope to order my Cardinal Tetras this week!


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## sewingalot

That sword on the left is looking fantastic. Are you giving it root tabs? I am curious on how your swords aren't mauled by your plecos. My bristlenose Tony ate a big chunk of my ocelot overnight. I sent it to Kara. Should have shipped her my fish instead.


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## lauraleellbp

I give the swords WonderGro fert tabs, been using those for a few years now and I really like them. IDK if GLA is still carrying them, though?

The plecos mostly leave these swords alone, but I think they're chomping on my Vals... so I've been making sure to keep fresh veggies in the tank at all times and see if that helps. Broccoli stems go over really well.


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## bsmith

What kind of swords are in this tank> You have always seemed to be partial to them. I recently traded for Echinodorus “Small Bear” and Echinodorus aflame "AKA Purple Knight in Asia" var's and am liking them quite a bit.


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## sewingalot

Brocolli, huh? I've tried zuchinni and its a hit, but I've honestly been nervous about trying others. I don't know why that is. Beautiful rescape, by the way.


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## Karackle

Can't wait to see the updated pics! And thanks Sara, i've been meaning to ask you which sword you sent me, off to update my 30g journal specs :hihi: That's the red one you sent me before i moved right? (sorry for the mini-hijack )


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## lauraleellbp

bsmith said:


> What kind of swords are in this tank> You have always seemed to be partial to them. I recently traded for Echinodorus “Small Bear” and Echinodorus aflame "AKA Purple Knight in Asia" var's and am liking them quite a bit.


There are actually quite a few, especially chain swords. Let's see...

Chain swords:
Echinodorus tenellus 'regular,' 'narrow,' 'red,' and 'micro'
E. angustifolius
E. angustifolius 'vesuvius'
E. quadricostatus (somewhere in there... I think LOL)

Others:
E. africanus 
E. 'Indian red'
E. 'Kleiner bar'

I'm absolutely addicted to swords, and I've never heard of the ones you just got, do you have pictures of them? :smile:


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## lauraleellbp

Thanks, Sara and Kara! 

Here's some pics. Not much has changed, really...

Ever since I moved the tank out into the living room, this is the view of the tank as you walk in my front door. It's really the main reason I decided to fill in the bare spot I had before. 









The E. africanus is finally starting to grow into its own. There are actually 2 more on either side of the big one, but they never have done much to date, despite root tabs.









Left to right- E. africanus, E. 'Indian red,' and E. 'kleiner bar'









The Kleiner bar is flowering again, first time in a very long time, but I should have some nice swordlets in a month or two!









The Marselia minuta is filling in slowly but steadily. 









Still struggling to keep the E. tenellus 'micro' down. I really do love this little sword, though. You can clearly pick out the single E. tenellus 'narrow' that has popped up in the middle of them.









Pretty bits of color even without CO2 or ferts









Most of the chain swords are growing together in this dense thicket where the P. weitzmani hide out









The Lobelia cardinalis are sending off some offshoots, too, which I hope will grow in and look pretty









There's about 2x more Bacopa than show up in this picture since I just topped and replanted quite a few and the cuttings are still hidden behind the E. angustifolius.









These are the chewed-up Vals









She is such a show-off!









And last but not least, a few FTSs


----------



## JennaH

are those pristella tetras? i have a gold one and planning to get a school of them. they are very active fish!


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## lauraleellbp

Yes, they're very active schoolers, and they get rather large for tetras, too.


----------



## FSM

The ABN reminds me of one of those toy nerf footballs with the tail and fins


----------



## lauraleellbp

So it's been almost 2 years now since I first set this tank up, and there have been many ups and downs. I was scrolling through pics so I thought I'd post a few... (I'm going to post them first and then try and go back and date them).

April 2008- Planting began. Tannin city!



















May 2008- More plants, and the beginning of The Green Water Era



















Algae soup, anyone? I made the highly unpopular decision to just wait the GW out. So the tank pretty much looked like this from May to July of 2008. The tank was stocked during this period, however.









July 2008, almost completely cleared up









My Kleiner bar back in its glory days, when Rams spawned in it every 2 weeks like clockwork. IDK if it will ever get this big again or not, but time will tell! I also miss having Pistia in my tank, I think I'm going to get some more. The top of the tank looks to barren without it, and the fish and shrimp all loved it.



















Late July 2008- This began one of my favorite periods with the tank










September 2008 I rearranged some when I added the Cardinal tetras and Gold Nugget Plecos. The GNPs were just about the death of my lovely Kleiner bar. However, I considered the tank "done" at this point, and I moved on to other projects. These pictures were taken from Sept 2008 to Jan 2009.




























...and basically from February to June 2009 I neglected the tank. The surface got choked with floaters. The floaters blocked the light from the carpet and stems, so the carpet died back and those few stems that survived got very leggy. By July 2009, I was left with this


















During this time I also made the decision to move the tank from my office out into my living room. Apparently the move stirred up the substrate too much, and despite many, many water changes, within 48 hours of moving the tank, the resulting ammonia spike killed over 1/2 my fish. :icon_sad:

Discouraged and still busy with other projects, I still didn't do anything with the tank. Cladophora algae took over, especially while I was in Bolivia on my fishing trip. I should have taken pictures... but by the time I got back, I pulled over 2 gallons of Clado out of this tank. So I decided it was time for a major change. I re-did my hardscape, and started over.









Nov 2009- Initial replanting




















Today- 01/02/2010 Still some things to add (especially a school of 50x Cardinal tetras), but I'm almost "done" again!


----------



## lauraleellbp

I'm looking at these pics, and even after all this time, I've never really been able to maintain the height and density with the plants over on the right side of the tanks I've always envisioned. 

The closest I ever came is when I let the Hydrocoytle grow up and trail the surface. I'm tempted to get some again, but that's what caused so many problems in the first place... it would get uprooted by getting caught in the current, and then get tangled in the filters and other plants...

I also really like the width of this Val variety, but it's not getting the height I wanted, either. I'm going to give it a few more months, and if it doesn't grow taller, I may pull it and try good old Jungle Val.


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## bsmith

Here is google images for the purple knight. 
http://images.google.com/images?q=E...ent=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi

Echinodorus “Small Bear”
http://images.google.com/images?q=E...ent=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi

Ill get some pics from my tank after the next trim. The Small bear settled in nicely and is growing pretty big. The Aflame lost its original leaves and is now growing purple leaves only. I cant wait till it fills in.


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## lauraleellbp

Hey, keep me in mind if that purple knight throws off any babies for you, that one is AMAZING!

(I need more tanks... LOL)


----------



## hydrophyte

That's pretty cool. THanks for putting together that retrospective.

What do you think about getting some more swords in there to add more vertical dimension? It looks as though you have a couple of new ones starting already. What are those?

I have thought that it would be cool to have a large tank planted mostly with unusual swords. It seems that growers keep producing new and usual cultivars, but you don't see them for sale much and they are rare.


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## Karackle

Very cool! I enjoyed the retrospective! I'd nearly forgotten about the algae soup  The tank certainly recovered though. 

If you're looking for lots of height in that back corner, have you considered Crypt spiralis or balansae? When they were growing well in my 20g, in it's glory days (before, like you, I considered it "done" and consequently neglected it in favor of my new baby, the 30 ) it would grow to the top and then got sometimes halfway the long ways across my tank before I got around to trimming it and didn't show signs of stopping. If you recall that tank had around .75wpg t8 and when i was taking good care of it the sprialis especially grew like wild fire. Just thought I'd throw it out there especially if you're looking for a grass-like plant to get the height (it should stay rooted better when it gets tall than the hydrocotlye did too).


----------



## lauraleellbp

Devin, if my hubby would let me have enough tanks, you can be sure that several would be devoted entirely to swords! I absolutely love them, and some of these new cultivars blow my socks off! At one point I was going to do all swords in my 46gal, but then I ended up going a different direction... maybe some day, if I ever get a fish room.

The 3 swords on the left side of the tank now all have the potential to get huge- each on on its own could fill up 1/2 the tank if it decides to- so I'm going to wait a while and see what they do. I may add more swords if they stay on the smaller side.

Kara- thanks for the suggestion, but I'm sticking entirely with plant and animal species that are native to the New World, so crypts don't fit in with my "theme" for this tank. :icon_smil

Oh- more good news- my Cardinal tetras should come in sometime this week! And the 46gal is all ready for them... so if all goes well, the 90gal will have 50x Cardinal tetras swimming around come February!


----------



## Karackle

lauraleellbp said:


> Kara- thanks for the suggestion, but I'm sticking entirely with plant and animal species that are native to the New World, so crypts don't fit in with my "theme" for this tank. :icon_smil


Ah yes, I'd forgotten about that part of it! :redface: oops! Ah well...i tried! :hihi:



lauraleellbp said:


> Oh- more good news- my Cardinal tetras should come in sometime this week! And the 46gal is all ready for them... so if all goes well, the 90gal will have 50x Cardinal tetras swimming around come February!


YAYAYAY i'll be sending good vibes your way for them! :fish1::fish::bounce:


----------



## lauraleellbp

Quick update-

The shipment of Cardinal tetras that were supposed to go into this tank didn't do well (see my 46gal journal for details), I ended up with only 15 fish, and so they all went into my 29gal at work. Mark is working with me to replace the ones that didn't make it, so I'll put in a new order to try again soon. I'm still dreaming of a huge school of 50x Cardinals swimming around...

I did add 10x Otocinclus affinis to the tank today, however- I'm not sure how many were left from my original stock a few years ago, but I'm sure I was down to less than 5, so this should give them some more company.

The Val spiralis isn't doing as I'd hoped, and isn't getting tall to fill in that corner. I think I'm going to cave and get some Jungle val.

Also, the Indian red sword mysteriously just melted. The other two swords are doing just fine (in fact I just pulled a swordlet off of my Kleiner bar), so I'll pick another sword to replace the Indian red sometime soon.

Plan for tomorrow is to do a nice water change, clean whichever XP is due (I forget which, I'm going to have to scroll back through my journal to see LOL), and move 2 of the Calico BN plecos (hopefully a male and a female) over to the 46gal.

I'm probably also going to dose some Excel on this tank, as BBA is doing a number on the E. tenellus in the corner of the tank next to the french doors (I'm sure sunlight is causing the problems... the rest of the tank is doing oK).

I'll take some updated pics after I'm done. Got a bit of GSA that needs cleaning, too. Again, also on the side of the tank that gets sunlight.


----------



## lauraleellbp

Well the Val spiralis just haven't filled in like I'd planned. IDK why I have such a hard time getting something to grow the way I envision in that far corner... so the next attemp will be with Jungle Vals. I went ahead today and installed a "Val Corral" with some landscape border.

I've been dosing some Excel on the tank to deal with some BBA issues, so the Val spiralis had pretty much melted to nothing anyways.

The Lobelia and Bacopa have been growing like weeds, though, so I also topped and trimmed those, and cleaned out some E. tenellus 'red' runners that were invading the Marselia minuta.

Cleaned both of the filters and replaced the Purigen bags, and did a 30% water change.

I'll get some photos later once the bubbles clear out.


----------



## Karackle

Sounds good! Can't wait to see the pictures!


----------



## lauraleellbp

I was going to get some last night, but the tank was still really "bubbly"- so hopefully this evening (though we're having company, so mebbe later... of course, some UNNAMED [Karackle] people have no room to talk... :icon_lol


----------



## Karackle

lauraleellbp said:


> of course, some UNNAMED [Karackle] people have no room to talk... :icon_lol


Hahaha but NOW I can talk  (though I suppose I have to give some wiggle room )



lauraleellbp said:


> I was going to get some last night, but the tank was still really "bubbly"- so hopefully this evening (though we're having company, so mebbe later...


Therefore, this is a fine excuse IMVHO :hihi:


----------



## lauraleellbp

Feeding time! NOM NOM NOM... Always the best time to get pics of the fish LOL



















FTS









Did someone say food??









Say Ahhh


















Otos LOVE Mysis shrimp









Actually, I've never met a catfish who didn't...



























Or shrimp either... cannibals! lol









P. weitzmani pics


















One of the big guys came out, and I tried SOOO hard to get a good pic of him before he darted back into the E. tenellus 'red'!






















































Female









Amano courtship?


----------



## Chrisinator

Awesome pics!


----------



## JennaH

great pictures  the tank is filling in really nicely!


----------



## hydrophyte

That's fun. You sure do have some cool fish in there.


----------



## Karackle

Very cool pictures! Feeding time is definitely a great time for fish pics! You've got some beautiful fish, that's for sure! I love the P. weitzmani, they're gorgeous! 

The tank is looking good too! Can't wait to see it when you plant something new and tall in the back right corner (or until it grows if it's already there )


----------



## lauraleellbp

Oh yeah! I forgot to post pics of my new "Val Corral," I'm going to try Jungle Vals back here next.


----------



## CL

Haha, I have to do the same thing with my hairgrass. hose fish sure do look happy! Everything is really filling in now


----------



## sewingalot

This looks fantastic. I so totally need to get some of the pink tenellus (or whatever it's called now). Very pretty plant. I'm cracking up over the val corral. :hihi:


----------



## lauraleellbp

sewingalot said:


> This looks fantastic. I so totally need to get some of the pink tenellus (or whatever it's called now). Very pretty plant. I'm cracking up over the val corral. :hihi:


I know they're doing genetic studies on all the chain swords now, so I'm really curious what comes out of those! My own theory is that there are at least 3 if not 4 different species that are currently lumped under E. tenellus... but I'm of course far from a scientist! lol

And I can't claim the Val Corral idea as my own, either, I can't even remember where I first read about those... but for $4 (for a 25 foot roll that I used maybe a foot of LOL) I think they're great!

Quick update- I added 5x Zebra Nerite snails to this tank. I was getting some for my 46gal and went ahead and got a few more to throw in this tank, too.


----------



## lauraleellbp

So I added a half dozen Jungle Vals this week, and I like the look. I'm already noticing a decrease in GSA on the front glass, so that's a good thing LOL

Mark also PM'd me that the 2nd batch of Cardinal Tetras shipped out today, so should be here Monday or Tuesday (and again go in QT in the 46gal).

I scraped the GSA off the glass today (wasn't much) and did a 25% water change. I'm still having issues with the catfish all uprooting the Marselia minuta, I think I'm going to have to start trying to feed them in another part of the tank...

I've also been feeding alot of Romaine lettuce recently. 2 big leaves of lettuce only last about 48 hours in this tank!

I'll get some pics tonight after the bubbles from the water change have cleared up.


----------



## lauraleellbp

Pics

(Excuse the yellow water- that's the way it comes out our tap and the Purigen hasn't had time to clear it up yet)






















































Recently trimmed down the Bacopa


















New Vals in their Corral









48 hours in the tank









Big fat belly!









Zebra nerite









When an Oto meets an Amano walking down a log...









E. tenellus 'red' has really filled in here. I keep having to pull chains out of the Marselia minuta where it's trying to invade...









The Pristellas were reminding me that they hadn't been fed yet. I was trying to get pics of the M. minuta...


----------



## !shadow!

loving your chains such a awesome plant. you make it look really good in your tank laura. That oto meets amano shot got me cracking up. reminds me of a duel back in the days with cowboys or maybe l need to get my sleep...


----------



## lauraleellbp

!shadow! said:


> loving your chains such a awesome plant. you make it look really good in your tank laura. That oto meets amano shot got me cracking up. reminds me of a duel back in the days with cowboys or maybe l need to get my sleep...


LOL Thanks!

IDK what it is, but I'm completely addicted to chain swords...


----------



## !shadow!

l don't blame you, l found they're one of the easiest plants to grow and the watching the runners spread give you a feeling of sucessfulness. l don't mean to hi-jack the thread but l wanted to show you my chains . That silly ram wanted his 15 minutes of fame.


----------



## lauraleellbp

lol Those are filling in well. :thumbsup:

Is that an electric blue ram?


----------



## !shadow!

yes  he's not shy about coming out and waiting for his food. l'm currently looking for a female since they're so rare in the lfs. He was originally 50$ but l got him on sale for 37$. He was expensive but l hear they're hardy fish. l don't regret it i'd buy another one if l saw more.


----------



## lauraleellbp

Have you checked out www.oddballfish.com? They've got some really nice Rams. I'm fairly sure that's where my LSF got mine.


----------



## !shadow!

nop i checked them out and no electric blue rams. l recently talked to my lfs and they're going to get a shipment in so l should be good. Thanks anyways for the link.


----------



## lauraleellbp

Cardinals are here! And not a SINGLE DOA this time!









They've acclimated and been moved into the 46gal for QT, and colored up really quickly and are all very active and exploring the tank. They're TINY, though, many are even smaller than my B. briggitae! I don't mind at all though- means they're nice and young, so I should have more time with them.









I'll get some pics tonight.


----------



## lauraleellbp

Here they are in QT. Fish are worse than squirmy kids when it comes to photoshoots...


----------



## lauraleellbp

Also did some plant adjustments on the main tank.

I moved the Val corral forward on the far right, so that the Vals can grow up more around the driftwood. I added in some Val spiralis again, since Mark sent me some freebie along with the Cardinals.



















I also pulled the Bacopa out from that corner (this side of the tank is always my "problem corner"- the sunlight that comes in from the french doors is probably why) and consolidated it along with the rest of the Bacopa on the other side of the driftwood, and I pulled over some of the larger chain swords from that area to hide the Val corral.


----------



## hydrophyte

Those plants look really happy Laura. Those tetras will be fantastic in that tank.


----------



## lauraleellbp

I can't wait to move the Cardinals over! I'm really happy with them. 

My Sweet Aquatics order for my 10gal arrived today, and with it I went ahead and got some Italian Vals (red spotted) to add to my little Val jungle. So I now have 3 different Vals back there (Jungle, Italian, and Spiral). I'm hoping the Italian add just a touch of color.

I also got an Ozelot sword to replace the Indian red that died.

I gave all the swords 2 WonderGro root tabs apiece. The Kleiner bar hasn't flowered in several months now, so we'll see if this starts it up again. The African sword is doing really well, this is the largest I've ever seen it. The other 2 smaller ones I think finally died, though.


----------



## !shadow!

That piece of dw in that last picture with those vals were meant for each other


----------



## lauraleellbp

Yeah, I like the Vals growing up around the DW.

I'm thinking about replacing the Lobelia in front with some E. angustifolius 'vesuvius' though. The DW blocks a lot of the light and the Lobelia is getting leggy on the bottom. I love the vesuvius, and that might be a nice spot to showcase some. It doesn't show off well in the back of my tank with the other swords, where I have some now.


----------



## lauraleellbp

The Cardinals have really fattened up on their 2x daily feedings (they love daphnia and flakes, though frozen brine didn't go over well for whatever reason... may just not be used to it). I'm pretty sure I haven't lost any. :thumbsup: 

Today started their 1 week of deparasitization.

I'm using a mix of the Metro and garlic/Fenbendazole flake food from www.AngelsPlus.com. The first feeding didn't go well; most of it got spit out LOL I should have fasted them for the past day or so but forgot I wanted to start the worming today... so I'll do a large water change tomorrow, and with only one feeding a day now, I'm sure they'll start eating it once they get hungry enough.

If all goes well, next week they'll "graduate" from QT and finally get to go into the 90gal!


----------



## lauraleellbp

HAHA too funny.

I noticed the little beggars scounging around picking at the substrate looking for food, they were hungry after turning up their noses last mealtime!

So I sprinkled just a little bit of the medicated flakes, and this time they all went bonkers for it! Not a bit even made it to the bottom of the tank.

This is going even better than planned.


----------



## pianofish

Sounds great! can't wait to see them swimming around in a large tank looking awesome  Good luck,
Your pal,


----------



## lauraleellbp

Doesn't look very different yet, but here's some shots with the additional Vals added and of the Ozelot sword



























It's Cory Corner, with a Nerite snail invading their space









The Jungle Vals are already throwing off runners


















The Kleiner Bar is putting up some larger leaves these days. You can also see the Ozelot over on the left.

















African sword is finally doing really well









Nerite snail earning its keep









Got a few P. weitzmani pics, though none to be excited over. The other fish were being camera-hogs.


----------



## lauraleellbp

The Cardinal tetras are all being "graduated" from QT later today! I just fed them their last "dose" of medicated food, and I'm going to let them digest for a bit before moving them over to the 90gal. I can't wait to see them in there!


----------



## CL

Yay! They should look great. A big school of cards is always something to drool over :thumbsup:


----------



## lauraleellbp

Well it took me a full hour to catch them all (and I keep expecting to run across one I missed), but all 58x Cardinals are now in my 90gal! (So with the 2 I still had from a few years back, I've got a total of 60x Cardinal tetras in the tank- w00t!)

It's amazing what a difference they make in there. I'll get some pics tonight after it gets dark.


----------



## thadius65

Looking forward to Cardinal shots!


----------



## lauraleellbp

I now pronounce this tank STOCKED! (Actually it's a bit overstocked- but 2 BN plecos are soon to be relocated...)

Let's see, we've got-

60x Cardinal tetras
15x Pristella tetras
15x P. weitzmani (black morpho tetras)
6x BN plecos
1x Clown pleco
1x female German blue ram
5x Corydoras schwartzi (bandit cories)
12x Otocincus (viattus and affinis mix, I believe?)
15x Amano shrimp
7x Zebra nerites
a million and three Malaysian trumpet snails

Here's the pics (warning- I got a bit camera happy...)


----------



## CL

Love it. A nice big school of tetras is always a sight to see.
The plants are looking really nice too. I love all the Echinodorus tenellus 'pink' too. :thumbsup: The tank is really shaping up!


----------



## Voozle

Very nice! This is a stunningly large "low tech" tank, definitely an inspiration to all of us trying the same on a smaller scale. What are the water conditions at the moment? Hopefully you'll observe breeding behavior among at least some of the many small species, given so much room.


----------



## lauraleellbp

Thanks guys!!



Voozle said:


> What are the water conditions at the moment? Hopefully you'll observe breeding behavior among at least some of the many small species, given so much room.


I haven't checked the water params on this tank in a while, but the pH generally runs 7.6 to 7.8, gH and kH off the charts. I'm on well water and I use it as it comes out of our water softener.

Haven't had any issues with the fish adapting to my water params even though they're all "blackwater" fish (I do acclimate them slowly), and back when I had more Rams they spawned like clockwork every 2 weeks. The Pristellas spawn on a regular basis, too- I know I see it every few months, and they probably spawn more often than that I just don't see it. It's usually in the morning once the sun is newly up. I suspect the Pristellas will be spawning again soon, actually- I've noticed the females have bulked up a bit.

I've never seen Cardinals or the P. weitzmani spawn, and will be surprised if they ever do, my water is so hard... time will tell. I've had the P. weitzmani for over a year now though, so I expect if they were going to spawn they would have already.

I'm actually hoping that my BN plecos will spawn. They should be sexually mature now, and there's lots of caves in that big piece of driftwood for them (unfortunately I can't see inside the caves so I won't ever know for sure unless I actually end up with babies!)


----------



## pianofish

Tank looks spectacular and congratulations on the successful cardinal move! The massive school looks great. I was also wondering how thick your substrate is and what type of substrate you use. I'm sure you've already posted it but there are 65 pages...
Thanks a bunch and sorry for being lazy,
Your pal,


----------



## lauraleellbp

Lazy?? What, you don't want to spend 13498713 hours reading this whole thread? :hihi:

I've got a mix of Flourite black, Flourite black sand, and black Colorquartz in here, with a thin underlay of peat (since my water is so hard).

The substrate is 4-6" deep, but if I ever redo this tank I'll pull it down to 2-4", I really don't need this much in here and I think it was the cause of my tank crash when I moved this tank last year.


----------



## oldpunk78

man... i think it's been a while since i last checked in on this thread. looking good! everything is really filling in nicely. i can't wait to see it fully carpeted.


----------



## lauraleellbp

oldpunk78 said:


> i can't wait to see it fully carpeted.


I've been noticing that the E. tenellus 'red' has filled in very thick in the back of the tank, but the front of the tank is still pretty sparse. I think the issue is both my light fixture placement (I tend to keep it pushed back on the tank for easy access through the glass tops) and also my bulb arrangement- I think I need to run the other bank of bulbs that are placed more forward than the one I've been running.

I've even noticed that the Marselia minuta tends to want towards the back of the tank rather than fill in the front- so I think I'm going to fix all of this tomorrow. We'll see if this makes any difference with the carpet in the front of the tank.

I'll probably also try some Geisemann bulbs in the fixture w/in the next 6 mos too, since I'll be due to swap out my bulbs.


----------



## pianofish

No problems with anaerobic sand?


----------



## lauraleellbp

pianofish said:


> No problems with anaerobic sand?


There's a strong possibility that there are anearobic spots in this tank, and I think when I moved my tank last year it stirred some to the surface and that's the reason I had such a massive fish loss immediately after moving the tank. Just theory on my end, and I didn't notice any sulphur smell, but that's the best explanation I've come up with for what happened.

Other than that I haven't had any issues, however- I think if I've got spots they're well down deep in the substrate, since the tank is fully planted and the plant roots keep the gas exchange going any place they extend. I do large water changes immediately after any serious rescapes (I learned the hard way otherwise you're asking for a GW outbreak) but I've never noticed any fish distress even when moving quite a few plants around.

The 8 million and two MTS probably also help. LOL


----------



## pianofish

Thanks, but er what is GW? and I just posted a question here and was wondering if you had any advice?
Thanks again,


----------



## lauraleellbp

GW = Green Water

As in, my tank looked like this for several months LOL


----------



## pianofish

woh!!! how did you fix it? and can fish live in that type of water?


----------



## lauraleellbp

Most people will get a UV sterilizer. I made the [highly unpopular] decision to do nothing and just wait it out- eventually the algae starve themselves out and die. Took about 8 weeks from what I remember, but the tank has remained crystal clear ever since.

The fish LOVED it- my Rams even started spawning! lol It's just us puny humans who find algae annoying... :fish:


----------



## HEINEKEN357

Hey Saint Patrick's day was last month its time to make your water clear again . To kill the green water you need to do a black out for a few days no light at all cover the tank so it get 0 light do 50% water change. Or if you have a uv light you can kill it in 2 days.


----------



## lauraleellbp

HEINEKEN357 said:


> Hey Saint Patrick's day was last month its time to make your water clear again . To kill the green water you need to do a black out for a few days no light at all cover the tank so it get 0 light do 50% water change. Or if you have a uv light you can kill it in 2 days.


LOL thanks for the suggestions but that GW was 2 years ago. I just waited it out.

Tank looks like this today.


----------



## lauraleellbp

My BN plecos have defeated me all day. There's one that I'm positive is a male, and I want to relocate him plus hopefully a female to my 46gal.

He keeps running up to that Romaine lettuce I've got clipped to the side of the tank to feed, but just as soon as my net hits the water he dives for the driftwood and there's no way I could catch him among all those crooks and crannies... *sigh*

Lights are off now for the night, so I guess I'll have to renew my stalk again tomorrow.


----------



## HEINEKEN357

Hey Laura are you going to move the intake pipe to the other side of the tank near the driftwood? Also you should flip the outtake bar of the Rena so the 90 bend is facing the driftwood and remove the valve if your not lowing the flow :smile: BTW your Cardinals are sweet wish mine schooled like that hehe


----------



## lauraleellbp

No, the flow in the tank runs exactly like I want it to- all the water runs across the top of the tank, down the front, and diagonally over towards the filter intakes. It's pretty effective, I watch it when I feed the tank. What you can't see in the pics is that there's also a lily pipe (output from the XP4) in the far right corner of the tank, and the flow is pretty strong throughout the entire tank. I'm not lowering the flow at all, the valve on the flowbar from the XP3 is fully open.

There's a bit of a dead spot back in with the Vals behind that massive hunk of DW, but that's also the Cories' favorite hangout, so you can believe no food goes uneaten back there LOL


----------



## Karackle

YAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAY CARDINALS ARE IN!!! WAHOO!!!!!! 

I'm SO excited for you that the cardinals have finally arrived and are happy and healthy! PHEW! 

Also the tank is looking FANTASTIC! it's really beautiful and looks all the better with the large school of cardinals! :biggrin:


----------



## lauraleellbp

For documentation's sake- cleaned my XP4 on Wednesday. It was so filthy I went ahead and cleaned the XP3 on Saturday. Looks like I need to boost my cleaning schedule just a bit to compensate for the increased bioload now that the tank is fully stocked. I'll do a water change probably sometime this week.

Also a quick pictoral update. A few tiny changes in the tank. I received some "freebie extra" baby albino Cories with my Betta simplex last week, so there's now 3x itty bitty babies bopping around in there. They're always out and about rather than lazing around behind the big DW like my C. schwartzi lol They also wouldn't hold still for their photo session so this was the best pic of one I could get- far left









I also pulled the Lobelia in front of the driftwood and replaced it with some more E. 'vesuvius'. Most of it still needs to grow up taller to be more visible. I'm keeping the Lobelia, just moved it all together to the left of the DW. Still need to top and replant some of the older ones there. Not a very visible change at this point.









The Val Corral is working really well, and the Vals have really filled in. Most of the new growth hasn't topped the DW yet, but hopefully they'll get there soon! The older leaves are getting too much light and have developed quite a bit of BBA at the surface, I trimmed back quite a few of those.









A few pics of the tetras, can't ever get very good pics of them, but you can see how the rest of the tank is filling in

























Got some decent pics of the BN plecos and Otos. I'm pretty sure that I have 3 male Calicos and 2 female, plus the female abino BN makes a nice ratio. One of these days I'm still planning to pull a pair out of here for my 46gal, but there's no rush on that.









Nom nom nom nom... here's the 2 biggest Calico males

















Otos









And one of the female Calicos









That's all folks!


----------



## VincentK

Do you boil the romaine or just put it in raw?


----------



## lauraleellbp

I just rinse it and in it goes. I used to freeze it first but don't bother with that any more. I can't tell a difference other than it falls apart more quickly in the tank (and makes a royal mess) if it's blanched/frozen first.


----------



## VincentK

Going to try it thanks, hopefully my shrimp will go for it too.


----------



## lauraleellbp

My Amanos do. Used to take a day or so for everyone to "find" the lettuce and start working on it- but now that I keep some in there in the same spot most of the time, they're on it in seconds lol


----------



## lauraleellbp

Did a 50% water change yesterday and a little bit of plant maintenance. Still having BBA issues on the far right so I pulled down the blinds on the french doors, hopefully that will give a little better light control. I trimmed down the Vals again so I decided not to trim the Bacopa just yet so I wouldn't lose all the height in the background.

Everything is doing really well, other than that bit of BBA.

The Bacopa always grows great guns when it gets close to the light like this









Zebra nerite with a really cool broken pattern









Replanted Lobelia and one of the new little baby Cories









The swords have hit a growth spurt, too









Kleiner bar shooting off another flower









FTS


----------



## lauraleellbp

Wow has it really been 2 months since I updated this?

Did another 50% water change this past weekend and cleaned the XP4. I've also trimmed the Bacopa back several times and spread them back further behind the driftwood. The Bacopa has been doing great. For some reason the Lobelia has just about died off, though.

The BBA seems to be resolved for the time being, but I'm still having growth issues back behind the driftwood- the Vals just aren't filling in, and instead reach about 8-10" and then break off. 

I'm thinking that the area has become anaerobic and that I may need to break the tank down completely and redo the substrate a bit. It's almost 6" deep in that back corner, and I know it's become compacted now over the 2 years the tank has been set up, so that's a concern. I'm toying with the idea of getting some big plastic bins to store the fish and plants and then pulling up all the substrate, laying down an inch of organic topsoil, and then replacing only 2" of the old substrate on top.

It would be a huge project, and put the livestock at risk if I had ammonia spikes afterwards.

IDK...

Anyways, I took advantage of the rainy day to snag a few updated pics:


----------



## Karackle

wow Laura, despite the possible anaerobic spot, this tank is looking truly stunning, it's very lush now! And those cardinal tetras are just a gorgeous addition to the tank and really accentuate it well. 

If you do decide to break it down, good luck with that massive project!


----------



## CL

Things have grown great, LL. I don't see a speck of BBA on that wood, either!


----------



## lauraleellbp

Yeah the BBA just up and disappeared. It was pretty bad again a few weeks ago, and took a bit more of my foreground with it, though. :icon_conf


----------



## CL

lauraleellbp said:


> Yeah the BBA just up and disappeared. It was pretty bad again a few weeks ago, and took a bit more of my foreground with it, though. :icon_conf


Did you just remove the infected part of the foreground?


----------



## lauraleellbp

Nope, it just died back after being choked with BBA.

I have no explanation for it, as I didn't do a thing this time. I've dosed Excel in the past but didn't this time b/c of my Vals. I guess something in the tank just "clicked" into balance? LOL


----------



## CL

Hmm. Who knows. That sure is odd. Hopefully it will stay clicked  haha


----------



## forddna

Has it been two years? Wow!! It looks great!


----------



## lauraleellbp

forddna said:


> Has it been two years? Wow!! It looks great!


Thanks Amanda! Yep, the tank's still going strong. :icon_mrgr

How are yours doing?


----------



## Chrisinator

Awesome tank!


----------



## Chaos_Being

I just finished reading your thread over at TFH about this tank today...great setup! It's nice to see what can be done over a long period of time :thumbsup:


----------



## lauraleellbp

Chaos_Being said:


> I just finished reading your thread over at TFH about this tank today...great setup! It's nice to see what can be done over a long period of time :thumbsup:


"Finished" reading it? OMG- did you start last month sometime! :hihi:

I need to get some updated pics- the E. africanus has just hit a major growth spurt and is taking over the left side of the tank lol

The Ozelot sword is pooping out on me- apparently some the plecos have decided they like the way it tastes and have chewed the leaves to shreds(though they're leaving the other swords alone- go figure?)

It's also about time to trim the Bacopa back again. That stuff grows an inch or two a week this time of year.

I've started moving some little sprigs of HM over from my 46gal just to see if it might take in the foreground like it did in that tank (surprised me!) and so far it's looking good. It's time to trim some more back in the 46gal, so if I get around to doing that and replanting it in the 90gal I'll get some updated pics.


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## Chaos_Being

What can I say, I am a fast reader. It did take a few days of interrupted reading during slow times at work to do so :hihi:


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## lauraleellbp

Leaving for vacation tomorrow (our anniversary :smile so yesterdy and today were tank maintenance days.

Cleaned the XP3 and did a 30% water change. 

The few little sprigs of HM I planted a week or so ago are doing well, staying low and starting to spread, so I added some more.

The E. africanus is sending out its first flower! 

I added a whole cucumber (halved) to hopefully tide the plecos over till I get home- they've been chomping on the Ozelot sword. :icon_sad:

I'll try and get some pics tonight if I get a chance (got to pack and all...)


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## lauraleellbp

Before









After


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## CL

Things are looking good! Really lush for a lowtech tank with no algae  I really love the look of the cards in there and can't wait to get some of my own


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## macclellan

Looking good. I like this low tech tank, because I can check up once every 3 months or so and not miss much. 



lauraleellbp said:


> The E. africanus is sending out its first flower!


 want!


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## lauraleellbp

macclellan said:


> Looking good. I like this low tech tank, because I can check up once every 3 months or so and not miss much.


Yeah, me too! :flick:



> want!


I'll trade you for your new tank...:hihi:

Actually, if you're serious, I'll let you know when/if it's ready.


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## Karackle

Laura Lee the tank is looking great! It has really filled in recently! I love it! 

Also HAPPY ANNIVERSARY!!! Have fun on vacation!!!


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## hydrophyte

I haven't seen this tank in a while. It is looking real good Laura. What kind of sword is that in the rear left?


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## CL

hydrophyte said:


> I haven't seen this tank in a while. It is looking real good Laura. What kind of sword is that in the rear left?


I believe it's e. africanus


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## lauraleellbp

Thanks everyone!

And yes, that's an E. africanus- I started out with 5x back when I first started this tank, and that's the only one that's done well- the others pooped out on me.


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## macclellan

lauraleellbp said:


> Actually, if you're serious, I'll let you know when/if it's ready.


I'm for serious. I won't trade for the tank, but some livestock, or just buy it.


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## macclellan

Updates? :tongue:



lauraleellbp said:


> Actually, if you're serious, I'll let you know when/if it's ready.


I've got an E. 'Kleiner Prinz' plantlet forming roots as we speak! :fish:


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## lauraleellbp

This thing flowers REALLY slowly!

One stem broke the surface last week but still hasn't flowered. The bottom node on the stem is still underwater and has started putting out some leaves, though.

A 2nd stem is about 6" from the surface now, too.

So it looks like I'll have at least one for you EVENTUALLY... and probably more to go around too! lol

What does your Kleiner prinz mother plant look like?


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## macclellan

Mine's still converting to submersed form. Here's FAN's pic for now:








_
"Echinodorus ‘Kleiner Prinz’ is a unique new sword plant for the aquarium. The name Kleiner Prinz means small prince in German and this is truly a small prince of a plant. Obtaining only about 12 inches at maturity it is truly one of the smallest of all the swords making for an excellent aquarium plant. It forms a compact rosette and holds many leaves. The leaves are medium width and are a deep reddish maroon color. E. ‘Kleiner Prinz’ flowers underwater and plantlets form on the inflorescence underwater. In the emersed form the aquatic plant is small and nondescript. The leaves are light green and rarely does the plant get more than 8 to 10 inches tall. It does flower reasonably well in the emersed form but it is not considered prolific. This aquarium plant was hybridized by Thomas Kaliebe of Germany. It should be available by June of 2010."_


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## sewingalot

So pretty, as usual. What is the stem plant behind the driftwood on the right side? I love the look of it but have been searching your journal and don't see what type of Bacopa sp.


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## macclellan

Bacopa caroliniana


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## lauraleellbp

Yep, it's B. caroliniana and B. colorata mixed up, I can't tell which is which any more.

And I'm willing to trade swordlets if you think that's a fair deal, Mac?


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## macclellan

Yeah that's what I had in mind.


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## lauraleellbp

That works for me!

Not the greatest pics, but here's a few new ones. 































































There's now a THIRD E. africanus flower stalk headed for the surface, too LOL The top of the first one I think may have gotten scorched from the T5HOs- I'm not sure if I'm going to get to see some blooms or not?



















2nd stalk









3rd stalk


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## hydrophyte

Your tank is looking great Laura. Are you getting any new little plantlets on those flower stalks?


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## lauraleellbp

Thanks Devin! Only one swordlet so far (you can see the leaves developing in one of those pics) though I expect I'll be getting more.


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## sewingalot

If you ever want to sale some of the bacopa, let me know. I'd love to try some out.


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## lauraleellbp

I'll be due a trim in a few weeks I'm sure- I'll send you some. :thumbsup:


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## sewingalot

Yay! See, sometimes it pays to beg.  By the way, that albino long fin is gorgeous!!


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## lauraleellbp

Yeah- she sorta had that "gravid glow" to her too, didn't she?

Especially seeing as... SURPRISE SURPRISE.... I have BN pleco eggs! The eggs I just spotted are laying on the tank floor and being attacked by snails, though... I can't tell if there's more in the driftwood cave and just a dozen or so got knocked down to the bottom or what's going on, but the albino female sure is a WHOLE lot slimmer today than she was yesterday! LOL 

I'll try and get some pics- I'm positive at least most of them are fertilized- they're yellowish and I can see spots in them. I'm hoping that the big Calico male is guarding more eggs inside the cave, but I can't tell.


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## Chrisinator

Amazing tank!


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## lauraleellbp

I hadn't touched this tank in forever til today! I've been out of town alot for the past few weeks, so other than the occasional topoff and occasional feeding (the fish have gone for several weeks total without food spread out over the past month) the tank has been on autopilot.

Today I got in and trimmed up the Bacopa and did some tweaking here and there with the plants. Then did a big 50% water change. Flow looks good so the XPs shouldn't be that dirty, but I'm planning on cleaning the XP3 next week.

I'll get some pics tonight after the bubbles clear up from the water change.

I never did see any pleco fry, so if those eggs even hatched, I'm pretty sure the fry got eaten- especially with how little the other fish have been fed over the past month. I also need to find the USB card that has the egg pics on it, I'm not sure which card I took those on? If I can find the card, I'll post those pics, too...

Neither of the females look gravid right now, so I'm not expecting any other spawns in the near future.

I noticed today that my little albino cories are getting big. Now that I've moved 3 plecos out of this tank (sold one of the male Calicos and moved a M/F pair over to my 46gal) I may at some point get rid of these albinos and get a school of Panda Cories instead.


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## lauraleellbp

Well I finally found the pics of the BN pleco eggs that fell out of the cave a few weeks ago:


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## chilled_fire

I am stumped ! is ithis really a low tech tank ?? :tongue:
i will be happy if i get such growth in my high tech :hihi:


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## lauraleellbp

Ok and now for the pics from today.

This first one is from earlier this afternoon, before the trim:









And now After:









I'm spreading the Bacopa back into the right corner again, since I couldn't really get the Vals to grow up tall like I'd wanted. The right corner is still my "problem spot" and has been for just about the entire time I've had this tank set up. Bacopa did well in that corner before, though, so hopefully it will again. 









Here's a pic of the Bacopa under all 216 watts (2x plant grow bulbs + 2x 6700k)









And here's the Bacopa just under the pink bulbs









My P. weitzmani continue to be really shy. Here's the best pics I could get of one of the males tonight :roll: 

















Zebra nerite was more cooperative  









The Cardinals were downright camera-hogs. I was trying to get pics of the Marselia minuta. It's been filling in slowly but steadily.









HM has been filling in pretty well, too

















Echinodorus africanus has been growing and flowering like crazy, but the swordlets take a REALLY long time to grow

































The Ozelot and Kleiner bar swords have taken a beating from the plecos, since the tank went so often without fresh veggies for them over the past month and a half with me out of town

















Otos nom nom nomming on some fresh red leaf lettuce (finally got to the grocery store today!)

































Echinodorus angustifolius 'vesuvius' is doing pretty well. I still need to pull over some HM to fill in in front of them.









And just a few more FTSs


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## lauraleellbp

chilled_fire said:


> I am stumped ! is ithis really a low tech tank ?? :tongue:
> i will be happy if i get such growth in my high tech :hihi:


Thanks!

Yep, it doesn't get much more low tech than this tank. Just a Flourite mix for substrate and some root tabs every few months, that's all the tank gets! :hihi:


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## problemman

What's the lighting?


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## lauraleellbp

The fixture is a 4x54 watt Solar T5HO, but I only ever run 2 bulbs (so 108 watts) at a time. I'm limited to a 6-7 hour photoperiod or I'll start getting BBA and other algae issues (usually Clado).


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## problemman

Si that makes this tank med or low light?


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## lauraleellbp

I consider it the high end of low light.


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## chilled_fire

lauraleellbp said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Yep, it doesn't get much more low tech than this tank. Just a Flourite mix for substrate and some root tabs every few months, that's all the tank gets! :hihi:


Thats great ! is the root medic this good ? am surely gonna buy some then , will try out first on my 3G tank.


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## lauraleellbp

Yep, I've been using the RM root tabs for the past few months.

For the few years before that I used WonderGro tabs. Haven't been using the RM tabs long enough to see if there's any difference.


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## problemman

lauraleellbp said:


> I consider it the high end of low light.


And your growing hc!? Jealous


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## sewingalot

Woo-Hoo! I am getting some of that magical bacopa! I love the tank. I can't believe my luck.  You and Kara have actually convinced me to go low tech on yet another tank. I'll have to share pictures later.


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## lauraleellbp

problemman said:


> And your growing hc!? Jealous


It's HM, and I was surprised, but it loves my tanks! It's trying to take over my 46gal, too LOL


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## lauraleellbp

sewingalot said:


> Woo-Hoo! I am getting some of that magical bacopa! I love the tank. I can't believe my luck.  You and Kara have actually convinced me to go low tech on yet another tank. I'll have to share pictures later.


Yay! We've converted you!!!! ROFL 

Can't wait to hear all about it and see your pics.


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## monkeyfish

Great tank, what's it currently stocked with?


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## sewingalot

I posted a couple pictures on the 55 gallon tank of my latest. It's Turface and DIY root tabs.


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## lauraleellbp

monkeyfish said:


> Great tank, what's it currently stocked with?


I haven't tried to actually count anything in a long time, but there's about...

60x Cardinal tetras
15x Pristella tetras
12x Black morpho tetras

The rest is all "cleanup crew":
4x BN plecos (1 F LF albino, 1 F Calico, and 2 M Calico)
1x Clown pleco
5x Schwartzi cories
3x Albino cories
12x Amano shrimp
15x Otocinclus cats (O. affinis + O. viattus)
5x Zebra nerite snails
1.3 million and 2 Malaysian trumpet snails
+ assorted pond and ramshorn snails

My hubby and I are considering moving closer into town in the next 6 mos or so. If I have to break down this tank I'll consider some stocking changes... 

The Cardinals, Amanos, Nerites, plecos, and Otos all would stay. 

I may trade out all my Cories for a school of Panda cories instead, I think they'd show up better in the tank against the black background. 

I'm considering getting dwarf cichlids again, too- either some more German rams or perhaps some Apistos. 

And I may trade out the Pristellas for a school of top-dwelling fish, maybe some Blackwing hatchets? I'd have to gap-proof my covers, and I couldn't leave them open like I do much of the year to keep the tank cooler, though... So if I decide not to go with hatchets, I'll go with a different school of small tetras instead. A school of 50 or so Embers would probably look great mixed in with the Cardinals...


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## sewingalot

You are thinking about moving after that awesome landscaping job? LOL, so is life.  I vote for apistos over the rams. Everyone is getting rams now.  I just got some emerald eye tetras from Zid. Have you thought about this awesome little fish? I'll have to take a video or something to show how cool they school. 

By the way, your plants arrived in great condition!!! I just finished planting them, I cannot wait until they start to grow in. I am looking up how to care for them now.


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## lauraleellbp

Yep, I knew just as soon as I'd gotten so much work done outside we'd move! LOL I guess it's a good thing I hadn't actually started digging out the pond yet.

I'm glad the Bacopa came to you in good shape! :thumbsup: I tried to give you lots of B. colorata since I know you like your pinks. Truth is, though, I have a hard time telling the B. caroliniana and the B. colorata apart. LOL

How I care for them... plant them and leave them alone till they get too tall and need to be hacked back.


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## lauraleellbp

Well, the move is a go!

I have lots of mixed feelings about it all, but definitely the best side is that we'll be only 5 minutes from this:









The bad part is I've got 3 fully planted tanks to break down and try and get back together without losing fish or plants...

I'm probably going to do a major rescape on this tank.


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## forddna

Where is that? Very pretty!


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## sewingalot

EEEEEEKKKKKKK! I am shocked you are tearing this down. But I suppose you'll have to for the move.  I am seeing the difference between the too as they are adapting to the tank. When I got them I kind of left them floating in a bucket for a couple days. :hihi: They are now growing quite lovely and I had enough to share with another member already. It's a weed! Thanks again. 

I love the view. I'll be down next summer. Do you like banana bread as a house warming present?


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## lauraleellbp

Amanda- That's Naples Beach. You can see the Naples Pier in that picture, but we'll actually be a few miles north of that so probably won't be able to see the pier from the beach closest to us.

We're just moving to the other side of town, so still in Naples. Right now we live out in the boonies, so we're renting out the house we own, and renting another house to improve our location. Will be much, much closer to work, restaraunts, shopping, grocery store, friends, beach, etc. (instead of an hour away like we are now).

Sara, Bacopa is TOTALLY a weed! lol Even in my low tech tanks I have to stay on top of trimming that one. It's super hardy though (not as bad about shedding leaves as many other stems), and easy to trim into a nice-looking bush. One of my favorite stems.

And you're welcome any time! I'm not a big banana bread fan (I don't like nuts in stuff), but my hubby loves it. We'll have a nice guest bedroom with an en suite waiting for ya! roud:


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## sewingalot

I make it without nuts, too.  Any way, the bacopa is finally starting to really show off for me. I am glad you sent me some. Thanks again. I've already packed my bags, lol.


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## lauraleellbp

The breakdown has begun.

Yesterday I pulled the driftwood, African sword, and all the Bacopa so that I could catch all the Cories, Pristellas, and the Clown pleco to take to the LFS. Took over an hour, but I managed to catch all but one Cory (that I found tonight







).



The tank looks soooo empty and sad.

It will be about a month before I start putting it back together, though.


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## sewingalot

Was it hard parting with the fish? When I got rid of my emperors I felt cruddy for weeks. Are you keeping the plants in a different tank?


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## Karackle

Woah! I missed a lot! A MOVE! Crazy!!! I was wondering the same thing about the fish because I don't like doing it either :tongue: 

Good luck with the move and the break down, can't wait to see how everything goes for you! We had to move with our tanks, i know we only had 2 and the largest was 60g, but I still feel your pain somewhat. :eek5:


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## lauraleellbp

Yeah, a little. I almost changed my mind about the Clown pleco after I got him to my LFS. I've had him a long, long time...

What's really killing me is all my tanks in such disarray and knowing how long it's going to be before I can get them back the way I want them... lol Right now all the Bacop and the big sword are just floating in my 46gal. I'll probably move them back over to the 90gal today. I'm considering selling all my plants and starting over from scratch with the 90...

I was actually dreaming last night about what tetras I'm going to get to replace the Pristellas. LOL


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## Karackle

Hahahaha i love that you were dreaming of the fish you want to get! :hihi:


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