# Shipping plants From US to Canada and Visa Versa



## cherokeetestpilot (Dec 8, 2006)

Ok, 

This is kind of a beef of mine. I've recently tried to purchase some plants from some members and soon discovered that no one will touch me with a ten foot pole because I live in CANADA. 

What I don't understand is that there are a couple of members that ship to Canada with no problems. WHAT'S THE DEAL???? Why is it no problem for them but a big one for others?

Hopefully someone can answer this for me.

Take care all


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## spypet (Sep 15, 2006)

first off, sellers here do it as a RAOK, not for profit, so keep that aggravation to yourself, please.
second, sellers who serve Canada probably have more shipping experience than those who don't.
finally, if you learn precisely what is involved with shipping plants to Canada,
and clearly offered that information to those here reluctant to ship to you,
you might get more in the long run, and help sellers here learn a few new tricks.


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

spypet said:


> first off, sellers here do it as a RAOK, not for profit, so hold back on your aggravated attitude.
> second, sellers who serve Canada probably have more shipping experience than those who don't.
> finally, if you learn precisely what is involved with shipping plants to Canada,
> and clearly offered that information to those here reluctant to ship to you,
> you might get more in the long run, and help sellers here learn a few new tricks.



I think he wasn't trying to be aggravated at anyone, just frustrated because of the fact that no one will ship him plants. 

Your RAOK/profit point is not quite valid. Most (not all, just most) people here who RAOK their plants ask for shipping in return. If not for the phytosanitary certificate issue, I would gladly ship plants to people in Canada if they pay for the shipping. Packaging isn't much different.

From a quick Google search, it seems as if plants sent to Canada require a phytosanitary certificate for the shipment to be legal. That's $$$. I think that's the biggest reason you won't find members on here shipping plants to you.


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

[http://www.cfia-acia.agr.ca/english/plaveg/protect/dir/d-94-27e.shtml] This
URL covers true aquatic plants coming INTO Canada. From this document, it
can safely be said that:

1. An Import Permit in NOT required if the plants originated in the
continental U.S.A. If the Canadian importer is trying to bring in plants
from a country other than the USA, they must get an Import Permit from the
Plant Protection Division FIRST.

The directive which coveres Import Permits may be found online at
[http://www.cfia-acia.agr.ca/english/plaveg/protect/dir/d-97-04e.shtml].

For issues specific to the United States, the following directive applies:
[http://www.cfia-acia.agr.ca/english/plaveg/protect/dir/d-94-14e.shtml].

2. A Phytosanitary Certificate IS required for all importations of aquatic
plants, plant parts and/or seeds. The full scientific name of each plant
must be listed on the phytosanitary certificate.

Here is the text of the regulation:

"A PHYTOSANITARY CERTIFICATE is a document that certifies that the plants or
plant products described have been inspected according to appropriate
procedures and are considered to be free from quarantine pests and
practically free from other injurious pests. This certificate must be issued
no later than 14 days before shipment to Canada and is issued by an official
in the country of origin. Phytosanitary Certificates are addressed to the
Plant Protection Division in Ottawa and must conform with the current
phytosanitary regulations of Canada."

No mention (or distinction) appears to exisit between whether this
certificate is issued by a federal or a state authority - it just refers to
"an official". I assume that in the United States (like Canada) state
officials can be just as "officous" as federal ones. <g>

The Directive which covers Canadian requirements for Phytosanitary
Certificates may be found online at
[http://www.cfia-acia.agr.ca/english/plaveg/protect/dir/d-99-06e.shtml]

3. The Canadian authorities are not very concerned about whether TRUE
AQUATIC PLANTS were grown in sterile media or soil, as both are exempt from
the provisions of the Canadian Sterile Growing Medium Program.

4. ALL incoming shipments of aquatic plants are subject to inspection.

5. ANY incoming shipment which fails to pass inspection either due to the
presence of pests or poor or incomplete documentation is refused entry [end
of story].

The USDA has a similar amount of information available online as the
Canadian Food Inspection Agency does, but it is mainly intended for
importers of plant products into the US, and not really designed for
exporters [http://www.aphis.usda.gov/ppq/ss/permits/products/index.shtml].
Like the Canadian regulations, a strong line is drawn between commercial
enterprises and individuals importing a few plants for their personal use
(i.e., a lot less red tape for individuals).

To be perfectly honest...... I wouldn't worry about a few plants being
tucked into a padded mailer and being sent thru the mail to a buddy in
Canada. Neither of you is likely to get arrested. But if they are VALUABLE
or RARE plants, I would recommend that you follow the rules and get the
Phytosanitary Certificate from your local State authorities and label the
shipment appropriately. You say that the Certificate is free, and a properly
certified shipment can clear the regulators at the border in 3 hours.

I'm sorry to go on about this issue, but I think that it is an important one
for the members of the APD to know about.


From: Import/Export Laws


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## cherokeetestpilot (Dec 8, 2006)

Epic is correct. I'm not aggravated at any one person on this forum. I'm mad at the *&()^)*& customs people. So as far as keeping the aggravation to myself, I won't. Hope that doesn't come across the wrong way there....not directed at you spypet....directed at customs.

It's pretty ridiculous that we live right beside each other and can't exchange these things. It's the same if I were to ship to you guys. There has to be a way around this. I'm going to do some research.

Thanks Epic


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

cherokeetestpilot said:


> Epic is correct. I'm not aggravated at any one person on this forum. I'm mad at the *&()^)*& customs people. So as far as keeping the aggravation to myself, I won't. Hope that doesn't come across the wrong way there....not directed at you spypet....directed at customs.
> 
> It's pretty ridiculous that we live right beside each other and can't exchange these things. It's the same if I were to ship to you guys. There has to be a way around this. I'm going to do some research.
> 
> Thanks Epic



Like in that big, huge discussion, I doubt regular shipments would be inspected by customs. How do they know it's a plant versus Christmas gifts? You can't really. =P

But that's something you have to convince the forum member of, and it's at your and their risks...good luck!


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## cherokeetestpilot (Dec 8, 2006)

I know, but I wouldn't ask anyone to risk it. If they offered....well....that's a different story. For crying out loud....it's like we're trying to smuggle drugs or something. :icon_frow


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## distrbd (Feb 17, 2006)

spypet said:


> first off, sellers here do it as a RAOK, not for profit, so keep that aggravation to yourself, please.
> second, sellers who serve Canada probably have more shipping experience than those who don't.
> finally, if you learn precisely what is involved with shipping plants to Canada,
> and clearly offered that information to those here reluctant to ship to you,
> you might get more in the long run, and help sellers here learn a few new tricks.


Hey spynet ,why are you so quick to pick a fight?

Hi cherokeetestpilot. I also wanted to have some plants shipped to Canada but once I read this on the aquarium plants .Com's site ,I realized it's not going to be easy :
AquariumPlants.com Largest online sales / service site for the live aquarium plants community.


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## original kuhli (Nov 28, 2006)

I think there's a general annoyance amongst Canadians regarding the fact that everything we want to buy is not available or marked up to the point where paying huge shipping bills and duty is still economical. Yet we still can't get some things shipped to us.

In Western Canada hi-tech planted tanks are still a royal pain to set up, we just don't have the array of retailers present in the US. Then to, if I may use the term, 'aggravate' the situation more most internet retailers won't ship a bicycle tire to us if we wanted it.

Its a rant and I know it, but its true. But its a frustration point for everything from gravel to cars (http://www.drivingtelevision.com/CarReviewVideos.php?ccID=2). Having said that I like the suggestion of doing our part and informing a shipper of what to do (or how little they have to) to get something shipped into Canada.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/c...nternet-companies-ship-canada.html#post342600

BTW, I didn't see the original poster picking a fight, but this issue does aggravate me!


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## spypet (Sep 15, 2006)

if it makes Canadians feel any better;
your country annually produces millions of tons of mineral ores and fuel stuffs consumed and overpaid by American industry since you get the overseas import price even though it's transported by our far cheaper rail system.

sorry, my post was not intended to be hostile to anyone, and you have a legitimate gripe. now you can understand why the European union was formed, as will the a similar union form in coming years for South East Asia.

considering 9/11 hysteria, bird flu, and the "mad cow" tension between the American and Canadian a beef industries, I imagine any live plant or fish shipments may be even more difficult coming from Canada to the USA.


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## Slartibart (Dec 1, 2006)

spypet said:


> if it makes Canadians feel any better;
> your country annually produces millions of tons of mineral ores and fuel stuffs consumed and overpaid by American industry since you get the overseas import price even though it's transported by our far cheaper rail system.


The US still find other ways to screw us (Soft Wood). 

I live in Langley also, and I'm having a tough time finding decent plants in any shop. Let me know if you find a good seller.


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## cherokeetestpilot (Dec 8, 2006)

I'm in langley as well Slartibart. Mike at hidden reef has quite a selection and I did manage to get someone to ship me some nice plants not available here. If I can grow them out I'll pass some along.

I'm glad so many people posted here because it gives us all a chance to realize that no one is picking on americans individually or canadians individually. I think it's great that we can get together from all over North America and well...the world I guess....and share info, products, etc. about the aquarium hobby. I'm accustomed to it over on RC groups for Planes and such, and now that I've found this...well...this is great! 

Maybe we can find a way to get these things across yet?


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## Slartibart (Dec 1, 2006)

Hidden Reef is on Mt. Lehman right? I usually go into downtown Langley, not Abby. I live on 248th so Abby is close.


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## dymndgyrl (Oct 18, 2006)

I've ordered plants from aquariumplants.com (the Canadian version) and was very happy with the quality and I thought the prices were reasonable).

If we support them with our business, they'll will increase their shipping options (right now they only ship once a month) 

It _is_ frustrating for us Canadians, I agree, other than this company I don't know if there is any aquatic plant sellers online, so I was happy to hear about them. I'd order from them again.


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## cherokeetestpilot (Dec 8, 2006)

Hi, 

Yes, I checked out that online store. Very nice selection. I will order from them.
Slartibart, yes, it's on mt lehman. Mike will usually bring something in if he doesn't have it. He has a VERY nice planted display tank in a little back room. A fine example. GREAT prices on tank and tank packages as well. Not the big box store packages either. Quality filters, heaters etc.... He puts them together and allows layaway. Once if gets to know you, if you have your package at least half paid off, he usually lets you take it home. :icon_bigg


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## original kuhli (Nov 28, 2006)

spypet said:


> if it makes Canadians feel any better;
> your country annually produces millions of tons of mineral ores and fuel stuffs consumed and overpaid by American industry since you get the overseas import price even though it's transported by our far cheaper rail system.
> 
> sorry, my post was not intended to be hostile to anyone, and you have a legitimate gripe. now you can understand why the European union was formed, as will the a similar union form in coming years for South East Asia.
> ...


Indeed it does go both ways on a number of things. You're right!


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## samw (Nov 6, 2003)

cherokeetestpilot, what about getting the seller to ship to you to a postoffice in Blaine, WA or Pt. Robert's, WA and then driving over the border to pick them up and bring them back?


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## sNApple (Nov 6, 2005)

cherokeetestpilot, just use www.bcaquaria.com


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## ralph50 (Oct 20, 2007)

Why not just do what Floridians have been doing for years to ship illicit packages.

Ship with a fake return address.

Oh! I forgot there is no $$$ involved.


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## helgymatt (Dec 7, 2007)

Ok, so I wish I would have ran across this thread before I "TRIED" to ship a package to Canada. Apparently the customs has seized my package because I called them "aquatic plants". I sent it UPS and the people there made no mention to me that this would be an issue. So my question...isn't it UPS's responsibility to tell me something like that cannot be shipped? Secondly, is it worth my effort to get anything out of UPS? I spent $20 dollars on shipping and lost >$60 in plant value. I know they automatically give a $100 insurance on every shipment. Anyone know if I should attempt to get that in this case?


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## tom91970 (Dec 31, 2007)

Man, if I told about all the countries I've shipped to and received from some dudes in little black suits would probably come visit me. You can imagine how worried my wife was back during the anthrax scare...:eek5:


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## helgymatt (Dec 7, 2007)

Yeah, if I every do ship to canada again I probably won't disclose there are god aweful "plants" inside. And I don't mean to down play the problems associated with invasive water plants.


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## jrs (Dec 25, 2005)

If, "in theory", I was to buy some plants from people in the states I would tell them NOT to declare it as planted material; pick something else....pokemon cards, whatever.

In addition, if someone was to send me such a package I (bold and underline I) would assume responsibiblity if the package got waylayed. If, "in theory", a Canadian wants to get plants available in the US then that is a reasonable risk that we would have to take.


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## AaronT (Apr 11, 2004)

The fine in the United States for illegally receiving or shipping plants is up to $1,000.00 USD for the first offense. Personally, I'm not willing to take that risk.

In order to ship plants legally import and export permits and a phytosanitary certificate must be obtained from the respective parties involved in the transaction. 

I've imported plants legally into the US and it wasn't too terrible of an experience. I've had much less luck exporting as the exporting officer I've been dealing with has been less than helpful. 

Basically, to do things legally it's not worth the pain unless you are trading large amounts of plants or there is one you'll do anything to have.


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