# Purigen in a Planted Tank?



## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

Best discussion on Purigen I've found:
https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/can-purigen-strip-down-useful-nutritients.26850/
Thanks to https://www.ukaps.org/forum/members/ceg4048.36/


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## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

If you're nitrate comes from an organic source ( decomposing food and plant material, fish waste, etc. ) then, yes, it will remove nitrate. If your nitrate comes from an inorganic source such as KNO3 then, no, it won't remove it.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

@DaleM adding Purigen will not reduce NO3 or absorb it.

Purigen is an organic scavenging resin, it will collect dissolved organics preventing them from entering the nitrogen cycle.

As @Jeff5614 said KNO3 will not be affected.


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## AbbeysDad (Apr 13, 2016)

Two points:

1) The marketing hype is that Purigen removes decaying organics before they decompose into nitrogenous compounds and produce nitrates. Back when my tank was fish only, I used Purigen (two pouches in my 60g) with another two for instant replacement as needed. Oh the material turned brown indicating it was collecting detritus, but I never saw it reducing tank generated nitrates at all!

2) After a long period of use, I found that Purigen was no better at promoting clear water than simple polyester filter floss. The Purigen pouches were retired to a storage bin. With the heavily planted tank, I just use bio-sponge material in filters...and the water is crystal clear.

(Note that on occasion I do use a Marineland Magnum Polishing Internal Canister filter with the micron cartridge charged with diatomaceous earth - nothing beats occasional DE filtration).

_Disclaimer - I have no affiliation with Seachem or Marineland other than a purchaser of their products and receive nothing for mentioning the product(s) they produce._


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

I love using Purigen because it really helps polish the water well and I feel that it helps improve water quality. It isn't a cheat code to get you out of proper husbandry, but the stuff works well.


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## Smooch (May 14, 2016)

Do water changes to lower nitrate levels. When was the last time you cleaned your filter or filters? People tend to ignore those so they end up turning into nitrate cesspools. 

AbbeysDad likes to keep 'mulm' AKA a layer of sludge in his tank, so adding Purigen Chemi-Pure Green or any other form of 'carbon' isn't going to do anything as the sludge is always there polluting the water. Snail poop regardless of the species of snail being kept contributes to the sludge factor. 

Purigen, Chemi-Pure Green ( it is called that because it is plant friendly), ect... do well in tanks that are maintained. People tend not to use them that way though. They think if they put stuff in a filter that it will act like a magic wand so they don't have clean their tanks. None of them work that way. If that is your intention, you may as well throw your money out a window.


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## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

Smooch said:


> ...
> Purigen, Chemi-Pure Green ( it is called that because it is plant friendly), ect... do well in tanks that are maintained. People tend not to use them that way though. They think if they put stuff in a filter that it will act like a magic wand so they don't have clean their tanks. None of them work that way. If that is your intention, you may as well throw your money out a window.


Well, it's just one of those days that doesn't happen often, but I'm afraid I'm going to have to agree with my dear Smooch. Purigen, Chemi Clean, activated carbon, etc. are just a tool in the belt. Those along with good tank maintenance such as regular water changes, removing decaying and dying plant material and detritus that doesn't make it to the filter, regular frequent filter maintenance, etc. keep DOC's to a minimum. You can't toss in some Purigen, stop with regular maintenance and expect your tank to stay clean.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

AbbeysDad said:


> ....After a long period of use, I found that Purigen was no better at promoting clear water than simple polyester filter floss.


One is chemical and the other mechanical so the latter wouldn't do much until it was removed from the fiter. 




Jeff5614 said:


> Well, it's just one of those days that doesn't happen often, but I'm afraid I'm going to have to agree with my dear Smooch. Purigen, Chemi Clean, activated carbon, etc. are just a tool in the belt...


I agree, but I'm trying to find where someone said they were relying on just the Purigen.


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## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

houseofcards said:


> One is chemical and the other mechanical so the latter wouldn't do much until it was removed from the fiter.
> 
> ...I agree, but I'm trying to find where someone said they were relying on just the Purigen.


I don't think anyone did say that, but I was so shocked that I agreed with the general idea that Smooch posted I just had to mention it.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

I've been using Purigen for quite some time. Also run a UV sterilizer. And perform loads of tank maintenance. Kind of the everything but the kitchen sink approach.

However, in the interest of seeing if any of it really matters, I have been weaning myself off Purigen. Used to run it in all three filters. Have been removing it from one of the filters every two weeks, and am down to one now. So far I have seen no noticeable difference. We'll see once I remove the last one next week then run it without any for awhile. 

Not to say I won't go back to it, just trying to determine if it's really doing anything or not. 

Same for the UV sterilizer. Used to run it only after a water change, then just started leaving it on. Once I get past the Purigen weaning, that thing is next. 

My suspicion is neither is doing a great deal, but I am going to find out.


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## madcrafted (Dec 23, 2017)

I use it in one of my tanks. It definitely helps to polish that last bit that passes through mechanical. I find that those little pouches need re-charging more frequently than seachem lets on but it's easy enough to do. Every other diffuser cleaning I re-charge the purigen, so like every 6-8 weeks. I'm sure tank size, stocking, biomass, etc. all determine how long it remains active.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Does purigen remove meds like carbon does? Does anyone run both? No chemical filtration on my 55 right now, but running preventative meds right now so will need to order something by tomorrow to have it by the weekend water change. 

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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

Jeff5614 said:


> I don't think anyone did say that, but I was so shocked that I agreed with the general idea that Smooch posted I just had to mention it.


hahaha


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## madcrafted (Dec 23, 2017)

Grobbins48 said:


> Does purigen remove meds like carbon does? Does anyone run both? No chemical filtration on my 55 right now, but running preventative meds right now so will need to order something by tomorrow to have it by the weekend water change.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


I would remove purigen and use carbon to remove medicines... especially ones with copper in it. Purigen is intended to remove organic waste, not inorganic based or metals.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

madcrafted said:


> I would remove purigen and use carbon to remove medicines... especially ones with copper in it. Purigen is intended to remove organic waste, not inorganic based or metals.


Okay thanks for the reply. I'll get some of the matrix carbon then and use that. Then maybe consider using purigen down the road. I'll keep following this thread to keep up! 

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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

Greggz said:


> I've been using Purigen for quite some time. Also run a UV sterilizer. And perform loads of tank maintenance. Kind of the everything but the kitchen sink approach..


That's always been my approach as well. If anything it's preventive and there is a good chance like you said that you don't need it all, but your more likely to prevent a problem before it starts. Once you see an indication of something it's probably already started. 

That's the same thing with frequent water changes and the key difference. It's not that every tank requires it, but it's easier to prevent things then to pinpoint a threshold where things will go bad.


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## Smooch (May 14, 2016)

Greggz said:


> I've been using Purigen for quite some time. Also run a UV sterilizer. And perform loads of tank maintenance. Kind of the everything but the kitchen sink approach.
> 
> However, in the interest of seeing if any of it really matters, I have been weaning myself off Purigen. Used to run it in all three filters. Have been removing it from one of the filters every two weeks, and am down to one now. So far I have seen no noticeable difference. We'll see once I remove the last one next week then run it without any for awhile.
> 
> ...


I've never used a UV sterilizer so I can't speak about that. However, unless you have some weird particles in your water that you can't explain, you'll be fine without Purigen. I've tried them all. None of them make a difference as RO water doesn't have anything in it. 

On the other hand, before my well water started killing fish a few years ago, I tried these products in a attempt to clean up the water from my tap. It goes without saying that none of them did anything for my foul well water, so there is no reason to keep buying such products. 
@Jeff5614 If agreeing with somebody is the highlight of your day, maybe you should try doing something else? Just a thought.


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## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

Smooch said:


> @Jeff5614 If agreeing with somebody is the highlight of your day, maybe you should try doing something else? Just a thought.


LOL, it depends on who I find myself agreeing with.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Jeff5614 said:


> LOL, it depends on who I find myself agreeing with.


Some days this can be the highlight!
Solely depends on whom the individual is of course. >

Is it possible to have a "Dislike button", I wonder????


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## DaleM (Apr 10, 2018)

Thanks everyone for the discussion!

I have two crappy HOBs on my tank which I have stuffed with extra biomedia - ceramic noodles and Seachem matrix. My tank is only 7 months old and still going through the diatom stage, so every few days I have to dismantle the HOBs to clean. Starting to become a bit of a chore.

Thinking of upgrading to a canister, possibly Fluval 306 (Eheim much harder to source parts for in Australia), but ideally would like to have the diatoms sorted before going the canister route.

Maybe I should be cleaning the filters every other day. I do minimum 50% wc weekly along with gravel vac, so I'm definitely keeping up with the maintenance. My mystery snail is definitely a poop machine! 

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## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

:surprise: Good googly!
Oh wait, I thought you wrote you were cleaning your Fluval 306s every other day!
I like my Fluval 306 and it might be that going ahead with the purchase could help with the diatoms.
Diatoms are not inevitable and after 7 months I'd wonder why.
I suppose it depends on lots of variables, but I never vacuum gravel and rinse the 306 about every month.
I have water drain and refill process somewhat automated with DIY solenoid valves such that 50% change a week isn't difficult.
I'd wish for you less work and no diatoms.
BTW, I use Purigen and "buy into" the science explanation. I also get a flu shot and would immunize my kids if I had them so I'm obviously unstable. :grin2:


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## DaleM (Apr 10, 2018)

dmastin said:


> :surprise: Good googly!
> Oh wait, I thought you wrote you were cleaning your Fluval 306s every other day!
> I like my Fluval 306 and it might be that going ahead with the purchase could help with the diatoms.
> Diatoms are not inevitable and after 7 months I'd wonder why.
> ...


I have a degree in Applied Science, so I'm definitely all for immunizations! I've just purchased a Fluval Fresh & Planted 2.0 LED to upgrade from the stock LED that came with the tank, so the filter will be the next upgrade. I run two Aqua One filters (Clearview series) and they are quite cheap, hence I've stacked them with extra biomedia as the cheap bio cartridges that come with it leave a lot to be desired!

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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Does anyone run 100, or even 50 micron filter pads and purigen? I know those pads can fill up rather quickly and need weekly, or sometimes daily replacing and cleaning. Just curious for anyones experience. 

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## AbbeysDad (Apr 13, 2016)

Smooch said:


> AbbeysDad likes to keep 'mulm' AKA a layer of sludge in his tank, so adding Purigen Chemi-Pure Green or any other form of 'carbon' isn't going to do anything as the sludge is always there polluting the water. Snail poop regardless of the species of snail being kept contributes to the sludge factor.


WRONG. You wouldn't see ANY mulm or detritus on the surface of my 4 inches of pool filter sand substrate...be it the Corys, the Malaysian Trumpet Snails or just the magic of a bio-active substrate! Oh and just so you know, once processed, waste (eg snail poo) merely becomes organic plant food...much better than an inch of dirt down under.

Re: Purigen vs. Poly fiber:


houseofcards said:


> One is chemical and the other mechanical so the latter wouldn't do much until it was removed from the fiter.


Actually, Purigen is not chemical. It is simply a resin with an affinity to attract and hold organic waste, making it far more mechanical then chemical. 
But then I don't think of activated carbon as a chemical additive either.


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## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

Good post AD. 
I'm not sure the assertion that mulm/detritus is a constant polluter makes any sense as once enzymatic breakdown occurs it can't happen again without new fuel being added to the fire. Purigen can help remove organics you don't want in your water column that have resulted from this enzymatic breakdown and those in the substrate can be used by the plants See D Walstad method for low tech tanks. 
Also, Purigen isn't more mechanical than chemical, it is mechanical. Well, to the extent that we might use the words chemical to suggest a change in chemistry vs mechanical suggesting movement, but not alteration. From the link I provided at the beginning of this thread: "OK, so Purigen attracts and holds onto organic chemicals by adsorption, which means it is NOT ABSORBED into the structure of the resin, but is held by contact on the surface of the pores by INTERMOLECULAR BONDING - VAN DER WAALS FORCES"


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

So your saying using Purigen is the same as using filter floss? Purigen is chemical not mechanical


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## AbbeysDad (Apr 13, 2016)

houseofcards said:


> So your saying using Purigen is the same as using filter floss? Purigen is chemical not mechanical


No, it's not a chemical. It's resin pellets that merely attract and adsorb organic particles. The hype is that is does this before decomposition, however I believe the decomposition most likely precedes the collection.
I'll grant you that poly fiber does not attract organics, but merely traps the tiny detritus particles.

Much like activated carbon, I don't see these resins that adsorb elements as chemical additives. In addition to Purigen, this would include other products like Nitra-Zorb, Bio-Chem Zorb, Zeo Carb, Phosban, etc.

Chemical additives are like Prime (and other conditioners), Flourish Comp, Excel, Trace, Fresh Trace, other ferts, etc.


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## aubie98 (Apr 22, 2017)

AbbeysDad said:


> No, it's not a chemical. It's resin pellets that merely attract and adsorb organic particles. The hype is that is does this before decomposition, however I believe the decomposition most likely precedes the collection.
> I'll grant you that poly fiber does not attract organics, but merely traps the tiny detritus particles.
> 
> Much like activated carbon, I don't see these resins that adsorb elements as chemical additives. In addition to Purigen, this would include other products like Nitra-Zorb, Bio-Chem Zorb, Zeo Carb, Phosban, etc.
> ...


*pedant hat on* I mean, it's a chemical b/c all things are chemicals. *pedant hat off*

I think the distinction is that it removes waste by chemically binding the waste with the polymer constituents of it's resin structure. Activated carbon does that too. It's the binding action that makes it a chemical filter. 

Floss and other filter material are mechanical filtration b/c they physically trap particles within their structure, but no chemical reaction is taking place.

But, the lines are blurred between the three types of filtration media honestly. Biological filtration can be thought of as all three right? They (the bacteria) physically trap nitrogenous waste (by endocytosis), then they biologically metabolize the waste via a chemical reaction.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

It's a synthetic adsorbent. I'm pretty sure that is considered chemical as the organics are removed from the water column. In comparison to filter floss that is mechanical and it simply captures it until removed.


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## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

Good posts. 
Exactly, the lines are not definitive and it depends on how your definitions.
"Adsorption can be either physical or chemical, depending on the forces/interactions of adsorbate and adsorbent. Physical adsorption is dominated by van der Waals force while chemisorption involves the formation of new, ionic or covalent bonds. Yet there is a chemical reaction occurring (i.e., if the mode of adsorption is chemisoprtion). For example, during ligand exchange processes."


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

Grobbins48 said:


> Does anyone run 100, or even 50 micron filter pads and purigen? I know those pads can fill up rather quickly and need weekly, or sometimes daily replacing and cleaning. Just curious for anyones experience.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk




I run a 100 micron pad in my canister filter and find it only needs replacement once a month when I do filter maintenance. I do coarse, medium, fine, then the pad. Works well for me. Followed by a tray of matrix, then the top most tray has bio balls because they came with the thing and 250 ml of Purigen.


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## k2focus (Mar 9, 2018)

I've used Purigen in every tank i've had (fresh, planted, and marine). The stuff seems to work wonders, or at least it seems like it does in terms of "polishing" water. I've only ever used to clean cloudiness and keep the water clear.

The main reason I like it so much is that you just need to put it in some bleach water every now and again to clean it. After that, I just leave it in a cup with Prime for a few hours and put it back in the tank.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

So not to spark the mechanical/ chemical debate, but where in your canister do you put this media? It seems most put it after the biological, but if it is helping to pull organics out, wouldn't we want to put it right after mechanical, but before biological to keep the biological clean?

So it would go mechanical (course, medium, fine, floss) purigen (and carbon if needed) then finish with biological. Thoughts on this?

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## k2focus (Mar 9, 2018)

Grobbins48 said:


> So not to spark the mechanical/ chemical debate, but where in your canister do you put this media? It seems most put it after the biological, but if it is helping to pull organics out, wouldn't we want to put it right after mechanical, but before biological to keep the biological clean?
> 
> So it would go mechanical (course, medium, fine, floss) purigen (and carbon if needed) then finish with biological. Thoughts on this?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


i would ideally put it before your bio, and after your mechanical stuff. however, don't overthink it. water will go through it, and it will clean it.


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