# anyone have experience with the AquaViva Led lights?



## Jcstank (Jan 3, 2015)

The ones I saw in my LFS had color temperature's in the 10,000 kelvin and up range. That's a little much for planted tanks in my opinion.


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## mattinmd (Aug 16, 2014)

The one aquaviva I'm looking at:
http://www.amazon.com/AQUAVIVA-Freshwater-Aquarium-Spectrum-Adjustable/dp/B00RY4Y87G

has 12 white, 8 blue, 2 red and 2 green LEDs.

That's a *LOT* of blue, even if those whites are warm-white you've still got 1/3 of the total LED being straight-up blue...

Also, folks are complaining you can't put it on a lamp timer, as it seems to default to "off" after power loss.

If you're looking to save a few bucks, several folks here seem to do well with beamswork LEDs, which are similar but go with a straight white-only 6500k LED setup.

http://www.aquatraders.com/LED-Aquarium-Lighting-Beamswork-Freshwater-Plant-p/56426p.htm

Or their razor models which are lower output (slightly lower output than a Finnex stingray, based on user reports on TPT):
http://www.aquatraders.com/LED-Aquarium-Lighting-Beamswork-Tropical-Fish-p/56374p.htm

Jefkrol seems to have at least some experience with their products and likes them for low-cost setups...


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## kaytlu (Jun 18, 2015)

Hmmm, the one I'm looking at doesn't have that many lights or that proportion... (it's _for_ a 20gal long 30"L x 12" high, but the closest I can usually get on lights is 24" with extendable arms)


anyway, counting the led's on underbelly of the light strip:

4 rows of 3 lights = 12 lights

4 x white, 4 x blue, 2 x red, 2x green 


That is still tilted toward the blue end, but it is equaled by white 

and it is dimmable, so you can adjust the intensity. (I doubt it will be too bright, it may not put out _enough_)

The timer is a "no biggie" for me since I'm home all the time now.


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## mattinmd (Aug 16, 2014)

kaytlu said:


> Hmmm, the one I'm looking at doesn't have that many lights or that proportion... (it's _for_ a 20gal long 30"L x 12" high, but the closest I can usually get on lights is 24" with extendable arms)
> 
> 
> anyway, counting the led's on underbelly of the light strip:
> ...


Ok, so you're looking at the 24-36" model of the same fixture (I was looking at the 36-48" model..

Regardless, it is still 1/3 of the total light being straight blue... There's 12 total leds there, and 1/3 of 12 is still 4... 

White is now less in relation to blue (the 36-48 has 12 whites to 8 blues). Besides, white LEDs already have a very strong blue component on their own, particularly above 5000k. That said, the red/green LEDs are now more significant, as there's fewer total leds, but the same number of red/grees.

That's still an absurdly high level of blue, in my opinion, and if those white LEDs are cool-white, it really is going to look bad... again, that's my opinion, but let's look at it...

Let's assume they are using 2700k white leds, and mock it up using BML. BML admittedly has to use 15 LEDs instead of 12, but we can at least get close ratio wise... I'm using 2 whites and 1 blue for the extra 3 LEDs, giving white a slight advantage...

http://www.bmlcustom.com/custom-report-details?partNo=PS1290S201HHHHMMMMPPSSHMH

The report won't show the correlated color temperature (CCT) for some reason, but the editor tool rates this in at 107215K and the report shows 44% of the light being blue!

And that's using warm-white LEDs, shift up to 6500K LEDs, which they probably are using:
http://www.bmlcustom.com/custom-report-details?partNo=PS1290S201AAAAMMMMPPSSAMA

And now you're off the scales for CCT, and at 48% blue.

Blue LEDs are like salt... It is nice to have a couple to give some blue pop. But I wouldn't want 1/3 of my dinner to be salt.



kaytlu said:


> and it is dimmable, so you can adjust the intensity. (I doubt it will be too bright, it may not put out _enough_)
> 
> The timer is a "no biggie" for me since I'm home all the time now.


Dimming can fix intensity issues, but unless there's multiple dimmer channels (which there do not appear to be) dimmers can't fix color balance problems. There's *way* too much blue in this fixture...

That's not a brightness problem, it is a CCT problem, and dimmers don't change CCT..


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## kaytlu (Jun 18, 2015)

Well, mind you I don't have a dog in this race, so it's purely a quest for product efficiency on my part... Frankly I was simply hoping that someone had used this item & could give me a first hand report, not a theoretical discussion.

However, you have sparked enough interest on my part to expend a bit of extra effort in seeking info on the product on my own.

What I found is that the dimmable feature controls 3 unique settings, 1) dim all leds, 2) dim all except blue, 3) dim blue only.

From what I understand on the subject, reddish colored plants (ludwiga repens, etc.) use relatively more blue while basic green plants use more red end. 
(read a neat article on "vertical farming" where this outfit grows lush produce inside their buildings using only red/pink and blue lights)

Also, while K is a useful measure as far as what color intensity the human eye sees, it's not a carved in stone benchmark for plant growth

Anyway, I'm not too worried about the high blue output since 1) all plants photosynthetic needs appear to spike higher in the blue than in the red although they all use both ends... that holds true for both reddish and mostly green types 2) if the blue output on this product does seem too high "out-of-the-box" it can be selectively dimmed and 3) I've long wanted to grow some lush red & purple varieties in the tank.

I did think (upon happening across this product) that a supplemental red strip might be needed, but I see I've about convinced myself to go ahead and get the light & just try for myself


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## mattinmd (Aug 16, 2014)

Interesting, looking at the remote on Amazon it seems to only be set up to dim the fixture as a whole... If you can do an "all except blue" that might work out pretty well.

As for high blue output, I don't really have a horse in the race either, but some food for thought... 

It is true that photosynthesis uses blue very well.. it is also true that plants tend to grow leggy in blue-only light, and that red intensity causes them to grow bushier. 

Also, while red plants use blue quite well, even more so than green ones, they actually look black under pure blue light. Red intensity is important to make red plants look red. Aesthetic considerations do matter, because does it matter how intensely red your plant is if you can't really see how red it really is?

Regardless, I'd be interested to know how the light works out for you.. if it has separate channel dimming, then you'll probably be fine color wise just by turning the blues way down or off entirely.

However, you're going to have to remember to turn the lights on and off at at least roughly the same time each day... If you're home, you can always set an alarm on your watch/phone to remind you..


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## kaytlu (Jun 18, 2015)

I had to dig a bit to come up with the info on selective dimming, it's true that the ad on Amazon simply states 3 dimmable modes or words to that effect.

It's also true that how the tank looks is important... my first attraction to fish tanks/planted tanks was the knock out visual impact they can have.

I'd be happier if there was a "rheostat" type control for each color, which I think the Finnex line has (or comes close). My main gripe with them is that the 24/7 feature the planted+moonlight strips have, really produces some garish (to my eyes) results.

If I could have more control to set up the phasing in and out of various colors & _then_ set that on a 24/7 cycle it would definately be worth the extra bucks.

I imagine such a light exists, but probably it's also out of my budget limits.

So, I ask myself, why pay extra for tech that results in effects I don't like & wont use? since the tank location is in my bedroom, it's not likely that i will forget to turn it on & off.

My past experience with tanks, admittedly with lighting bulbs/tubes etc., has led me to believe that plants are fairly forgiving about time on & time off as long as they get enough light to do their thing.

Although I found the articles on growing plants under red/pink & blue lights quite interesting, I have no plans to set up such a rig for my tanks.

The main thing I sort of wonder about is whether a strip adding some purple leds into the mix might not be a good idea.

I know some marine/reef strips incorporate purple into the mix, and according to the spectral charts/pics I've seen, plants in freshwater would benefit from a bump on that end of things... it's true that red&blue makes purple, but the emphasis on planted tank strips seems to favor blue & white with lesser amounts of red & some green for eye candy.

I just wish it wasn't so darned expensive to dabble around & experiment with various combos.


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## mattinmd (Aug 16, 2014)

kaytlu said:


> My main gripe with them is that the 24/7 feature the planted+moonlight strips have, really produces some garish (to my eyes) results.


Well, you know you can always use the 24/7 light without the 24/7 mode... It is priced around the same as the Current Sat+, or the old Planted+. Given that it is priced similar to fixtures that don't have a timer, and really doesn't actually have a timer itself, I would say the cost-premium of the 24-7 mode is pretty small... 24/7 mode is really just a "dynamic lighting mode", like Current's storm modes, that just happens to run in a 24-hour long loop. The light really doesn't have any kind of internal clock at all. That's why 24/7 mode is so inflexible, but also why it doesn't really add anything to the cost of the light.



kaytlu said:


> If I could have more control to set up the phasing in and out of various colors & _then_ set that on a 24/7 cycle it would definately be worth the extra bucks.
> I imagine such a light exists, but probably it's also out of my budget limits.


I've certainly not seen it on the low-end of the market, and I don't really keep track of what's possible in the high end (ie: $200 and up) market. Maybe someday someone will make one with a midrange pricepoint..




kaytlu said:


> it's true that red&blue makes purple, but the emphasis on planted tank strips seems to favor blue & white with lesser amounts of red & some green for eye candy.


That's actually not true. 

Red+Blue make what looks to the human eye like purple... However, it does not actually make purple light. 470nm blue + 620nm red is still two separate wavelengths of light, not something in the neighborhood of 400nm purple light.

The effect of red+blue=purple is just a byproduct of how our trichromatic eyes respond to purple. We don't have any purple-specific receptors in our eyes, but if you stimulate blue and red receptors at the same time it has the same effect as purple light... thus we can't tell the difference, even though there is one.


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## kaytlu (Jun 18, 2015)

Yeah, in re: the "purple" issue, I started thinking about that after I had posted it, it's something similar to the difference between how colors come about through mixing (as in paint) versus how they are produced by light.

Several of the marine type led rigs actually have purple leds, apparently many sea creatures think they're really yummy. Maybe because that end of the spectrum has greater penetration through water...


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

kaytlu said:


> Yeah, in re: the "purple" issue, I started thinking about that after I had posted it, it's something similar to the difference between how colors come about through mixing (as in paint) versus how they are produced by light.
> 
> Several of the marine type led rigs actually have purple leds, apparently many sea creatures think they're really yummy. Maybe because that end of the spectrum has greater penetration through water...


Actually blue to green have the most penetration in water:









as to "normal" plants:









http://www.mrothery.co.uk/photosynthesis/photosynth&respnotes1.htm








http://www.apsa.co.za/xenforo/threa...need-and-how-can-we-choose-a-good-lamp.11620/

http://plantphys.info/plant_physiology/light.shtml


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## kaytlu (Jun 18, 2015)

Well, perhaps I wasn't totally precise in describing light penetration thru water, but since previous discussion had primarily focused on the benefits of high blue end vs high red end led light strips, I simply assumed that as a given background.

While your charts do show greater penetration of green, it's not by huge bunches, & plants have little use for green light anyway. 

One of my biggest gripes about the new little nano tank kit I bought (in a fit of online shopping frenzy, I confess) is that the light included spikes higher in green than anything else!!

I don't like the way it looks to the naked eyeball, (makes me thing the water quality is off) & it's not doing the plants any good either.

So much for impulse buying!


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

kaytlu said:


> Well, perhaps I wasn't totally precise in describing light penetration thru water, but since previous discussion had primarily focused on the benefits of high blue end vs high red end led light strips, I simply assumed that as a given background.


at normal tank depths no "color" is any more or less than unless you get to the red/far red and UV spectrum...

The rest is for color rendering choices..
Having a choice of either is the best of both worlds.. High K on one channel >6500K, low K on another </= 4000k.. and you can pretty well pick your "look"...

At the light intensity of Corals ect yes, a red light wouldn't be very effective.. nor a green but both can be compensated w/ enough "photons" thrown at it.. 

adding green to LEd's w/ lots of whites is quite pointless btw.. Now cyan is another story..


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