# Algae Problems. Suggestions Please. PICS



## josh1604 (Mar 31, 2008)

Wow thats a lof of BBA. You can kill that algae with spot treating with excel, spot treating with H2O2(Hydrogen Peroxide), and last resort bleach dip. If that is the only plant being bothered by the algae then i do see a reason to do a black out. Once you get that taken care of you need to take care of your poor circulation problem because that is likley the culprit. Without fixing the problem the algae will just come back. You might have to take off the leaves that have had a lot BBA on them as there will most likley be yellow spots.


----------



## chonhzilla (Apr 22, 2008)

I've been thinking about this powerhead from zoo med. It may be rational enough due to really poor water circulation.

ZOO MED Power Sweep


----------



## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

That's BBA. Ouch.

Fortunately, you have pressurized CO2. That will help to bring it under control.

1. Physically remove all that you can. Cut off any leaf with it even if it means cutting off all the leaves on the anubias.

2. Raise your CO2 to at least 30ppm. If you have a pH controller, that will definitely help. If you have a drop checker, the color should be just about yellow. Basically, start raising your CO2 slowly and watch your fish. If you see signs of stress, knock the CO2 down a tad and that's the highest you can go. When you get into the higher levels of CO2, watch your fish closely, especially at night when the plants stop photosynthesizing.

3. Spot treat with Excel and/or H2O2. If using Excel, triple the normal dosage (not water change dosage) and squirt directly on the BBA while the filters remain off. Leave it there for about 10 minutes before turning the filters back on. Do this every night until you've killed all the BBA you can find.

BBA is not a fun algae to get. I've worked very hard to get rid of it. I bought some plants with BBA and even though I did the bleach treatment, some of the BBA survived. Next thing I knew, it infested my tank.

BBA grows and spreads with low and/or fluctuating CO2 levels. Raising the CO2 to 30ppm or more will stop the BBA from spreading any further. It won't kill what's there, but by preventing it from spreading, you can then work to kill out what has already grown.

Then you're left with (1) physical removal and (2) killing it with Excel and/or H2O2. 

Do not skip the CO2 part. That's the key to getting rid of BBA.

Read this thread all the way to the end. It will help give you some idea of what you're dealing with.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/algae/20172-excel-treatment-bba-experiences.html


----------



## chonhzilla (Apr 22, 2008)

Thanks so much Complexity!!..This was the answer I've been hoping to hear, even though it'll be a tough solution, I guess it must still happen in order to save my setup from BBA.
Thanks Again.


----------



## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

Complexity said:


> If you have a drop checker, the color should be just about yellow.


Good to see that some folks are realizing that "Green" isn't quite good enough...:thumbsup:



Complexity said:


> Basically, start raising your CO2 slowly and watch your fish. If you see signs of stress, knock the CO2 down a tad _and that's the highest you can go. _


That's not quite correct. You can increase the surface agitation to get more 02 into the water. Yes, this will degas more C02....so the C02 gets cranked even higher in order to compensate. However, the higher 02 will appease the fish and allow even higher C02. My fish are doing Great, I don't have *that* much surface agitation-- The tank only degases overnight to ~7.2-7.5 and that's with C02 on only 8hrs/day and a 10% daily auto-wc 30mins after the lights go out. I drop my degased pH from 8.0-8.1 down to 6.3 without a problem--that's a 1.7-1.8 pH drop. I am going through a 20lbs tank in 3.5 months on a 55g. So, if there are still issues after reaching the "fish-stress" point....then more surface agitation is needed in order to reach a higher level of C02 ppm.


OP,

The bba is either low C02, low circulation or both. In your case I would say both. But it's also too much light for that slow growing anubias. You would have a better result by placing it in a shaded spot. However, the short version is: You can excel, bleach, H202, cut to your heart's content---you are going to have problems until you fix the problem(s).


----------



## Natty (Apr 2, 2008)

> The bba is either low C02, low circulation or both


I also think BBA is also caused by too much circulation, because a lot of the bba I've had was in areas that had a lot of circulation.

BBA also has a harder time surviving on live plants than other stuff like driftwood, outflow areas, etc.

I got bba as well, but they seem to only live on my driftwood. I believe lowering your light will also help a bit and if you do a black out, you gotta do other stuff as well. A pure black out only solution won't get you far. I've had bba in a dark tank for weeks without it clearing up completely.


----------



## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

Natty said:


> I also think BBA is also caused by too much circulation, because a lot of the bba I've had was in areas that had a lot of circulation.


From the plant's perspective--it's low C02. Whether that's caused by actually having low C02 in the tank, or low circulation. If the C02 is adequate, but the flow/circulation around a particular plant or area of a plant is insufficient....then it's low C02 and algae will eventually start growing. Slow growers like anubias, java fern, etc seem much more prone to this...:thumbsup: Either way, the end result is low C02--regardless of whether it's in the tank generally or within a microenvironment. :thumbsup:

In this case I would guess that A) the circulation in the tank is insufficient, B) the C02 is probably a bit too low (diffusing method?) and C) there is too much light being placed on that slow growing anubias.


That's My story and I'm stickin' to it....:icon_eek:


----------



## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Naja002 said:


> In this case I would guess that A) the circulation in the tank is insufficient, B) the C02 is probably a bit too low (diffusing method?) and C) there is too much light being placed on that slow growing anubias.


I mostly concur, but of all three, the CO2 is the single most important part of the puzzle. You can blast the plants with water streams and do all the black outs you want, you cannot control BBA without raising the CO2.

BTW, I thought I had finally won the fight with BBA, but I just spotted some really tiny fuzz starting back up on my crypts. Here's what fighting BBA is like:

1. I bought some anubias that had "a little" BBA. Thought I could handle it. Big mistake.

2. Bleached the plants, roots and all, with a 1:20 bleach solution for 2+ minutes. BBA survived and spread throughout my tank.

3. Hurricane Ike hit, no power (no lights!) for over a week. BBA came back with a vengeance.

4. Several Excel overdoses helped, but the BBA survived.

5. Large H2O2 dosing in the tank. BBA survived.

6. Cranked the CO2 up, and finally the BBA at least stopped spreading.

Thought I had gotten rid of it, but wanted to be sure. So when I moved my tank, I used this as an opportunity to get rid of the BBA for sure.

7. Replaced the substrate. Replaced filter tubing. Sterilized the filters and even filter media (yes, killing the nitrifying bacteria requiring the tank be recycled). Even ran the entire tank, filters and all, with heavy amounts of bleach.

8. Used new Python so it couldn't get any BBA spores from other tank.

9. Cut off almost all leaves from the crypt that seemed most prone.

Thought I had finally won the battle... but...

BBA SURVIVED.

I'm working to get my CO2 dosing straightened out, and I think having it fluctuate so much is what prompted the BBA to try to grow again. I'm going to mow down the crypts to the ground and keep working on the CO2.

I don't think it really matters what you do with lighting, and nothing you do will completely get rid of the BBA. It's a matter of controlling it so the BBA doesn't actually grow. It's like any algae, just waiting for an opportunity, and if given one, it takes advantage of it.

Cut it out. Kill it with Excel and/or H2O2. Fix the filtration. But above all else, raise the CO2 high enough to stop the BBA. It's the only thing that I have found to keep the tank clear of it.


----------



## chonhzilla (Apr 22, 2008)

I too purchased my anubias with a little BBA. Now look at it. 

I really appreciate your responses. I am using the Red Sea Reactor 500 for my CO2 Diffusing. My lighting like I've mentioned above is 65watts over a 29gal. The Light is recessed above the tank and is about 8" from the surface of the water.


----------



## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

I can definitely commiserate with you. I have fought algae before so I didn't know what I was getting into when I bought my anubias with the BBA.

The good news is that it can be controlled. I'm at the point now in which I'm pretty much an eagle eye watching for the tiniest hint of it. I literally had to use a jeweler's loupe to see it's starting to come back. So even though it survived all that I've done, it is also under control.

And when you think about it, that's pretty much what we do with all of the different types of algae. If things go out of balance, some type of algae appears. Work to create an environment unsuitable for the algae, and you knock it back. But that doesn't mean it's gone. All it takes is a short amount of time with the wrong environment, and the algae returns. Just like BBA.

So it's all a matter of managing the algae. And when it comes to BBA, CO2 is your friend and its enemy.


----------



## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

Complexity said:


> I mostly concur, but of all three, the CO2 is the single most important part of the puzzle.


Overall, light is the most important. C02 I think would be considered the trickiest. In this case I think that both of them play a major role with possibly C02 trumping light. The light has much more importance in this case--because we are dealing with a slow growing anubias. If it were a faster grower then I would guess that C02 would trump the light. Anubias often have light related issues...usually GSA.




Complexity said:


> You can blast the plants with water streams and do all the black outs you want, you cannot control BBA without raising the CO2.


I completely agree. Completely. 100%. So, think about that statement. You have the answer, so why are you still battling bba? BBA= low C02. So, if you have BBA then the C02 is insufficient. It's really just that simple. You've come a long way in a relatively short period of time....and for that I applaud you.







You've attained a good "Big Picture" understanding of all this, but, at this point, it seems that you are still getting lost in the details--which is normal. Trees for the forest and all that. This hobby has a long learning curve and we all have to weed through it. Its taken me what? about 3yrs now...and there's still plenty of things that I don't understand....

Here's what I'm getting at:



Complexity said:


> BTW, I thought I had finally won the fight with BBA, but I just spotted some really tiny fuzz starting back up on my crypts. Here's what fighting BBA is like:


Crypts another slower grower. Why is the BBA still attacking the slower growers?




Complexity said:


> 1. I bought some anubias that had "a little" BBA. Thought I could handle it. Big mistake.
> 
> 2. Bleached the plants, roots and all, with a 1:20 bleach solution for 2+ minutes. BBA survived and spread throughout my tank.
> 
> ...


After everything You've been through....the BBA survived. But think about it. The impression that I'm getting is that the issue is now mainly with the anubias and the crypts. Both slower growers. Above you stated:



Complexity said:


> 2. Bleached the plants, roots and all, with a 1:20 bleach solution for 2+ minutes. BBA survived and spread throughout my tank.


BBA=What? Low C02.

but then:



Complexity said:


> 6. Cranked the CO2 up, and finally the BBA at least stopped spreading.


Right, so the situation improved. BBA is not going to physically go away w/o manual intervention: excel, cutting, bleaching, etc. So, the "stopped spreading" was your sign, clue, signal....that low C02 was the problem.

But then:



Complexity said:


> 8. Used new Python so it couldn't get any BBA spores from other tank.


Why? You already have the answer. You already know that that was a waste of time. Yes, you do.....and this is how I know:




Complexity said:


> It's a matter of controlling it so the BBA doesn't actually grow. It's like any algae, just waiting for an opportunity, and if given one, it takes advantage of it.





Complexity said:


> And when you think about it, that's pretty much what we do with all of the different types of algae. If things go out of balance, some type of algae appears. Work to create an environment unsuitable for the algae, and you knock it back. But that doesn't mean it's gone. All it takes is a short amount of time with the wrong environment, and the algae returns. Just like BBA.


Yep. You already know that it's always there. Just waiting. You didn't "introduce" BBA into your tank with that anubias. That BBA was already in the tank....waiting. Just as it's already in the other tank....waiting. Making the new python deal a moot point. Now there's nothing wrong with having/using separate equipment for each tank, etc.....but the reason stated doesn't work.

You also already know that BBA= low C02. So, why all the heachaches, heartaches, problems, issues, song-and-dance....? Well, let's go back to post #4:



Complexity said:


> Basically, start raising your CO2 slowly and watch your fish. If you see signs of stress, knock the CO2 down a tad and that's the highest you can go.


The reason that I posted my response in post #6 wasn't to "attack" you, pick a fight or anything of that nature.....it was simply to try to help anyone that reads this thread understand that that's _not_ "the highest you can go". Just need some more aeration aka surface movement. Then you can go higher. :thumbsup: Why do You still have BBA in your tank? My guess= Low C02. Why do You still have low C02? My guess=insufficient aeration. If you have done the "fish stress" and still have low C02 (=BBA)...then You need more aeration in order to crank the C02 ppm higher. Or, the flow around the plant(s) is insufficient. Or, both. Considering that the BBA "spread throughout the tank" I'm willing to assume that flow is ok and it's just C02 is low generally.

The hardest part about all of this is that everything effects everything else. It's all entwined together in a woven mesh....when one part gets distorted...it all gets a bit distorted. Preventing that distortion is what we call balance.



Complexity said:


> Cut it out. Kill it with Excel and/or H2O2. Fix the filtration. But above all else, raise the CO2 high enough to stop the BBA. It's the only thing that I have found to keep the tank clear of it.


Bingo! See You've already got the answer. Now You just need to get a grip on the C02/Aeration thing and many/most of your algae issues will go away. I didn't say BBA....I said _*algae!*_ Tom is right about low C02 usually being the main culprit. Not always, but usually....:thumbsup:



HTH


----------



## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

Ok, back to the first post....




chonhzilla said:


> 65watts over a 29g at 10hours a day.
> 
> Pressurized CO2
> 
> ...





chonhzilla said:


> I am using the Red Sea Reactor 500 for my CO2 Diffusing. The Light is recessed above the tank and is about 8" from the surface of the water.


Ok, you have pressurized C02....so this should not be a fluctuating C02 thing like with DIY. The red sea reactor--*I believe*--is sufficient for a 29g, but I may be wrong on that. You admit that "circulation is a bit poor." So, A) fix the circulation issue....a small pump like this Via aqua 360 or 480 for $12-13 will go a long way toward fixing that issue. Once You fix the circulation problem...you may be ok, but don't count on it. :icon_eek: You probably have Low C02 generally, so it needs to be cranked up. You can do the "Fish stress point level" and see if that fixes it. If not, then You'll need more aeration in order to add more ppm C02.

Again, it's easy to have lighting issues with slower growers like anubias. So, keep in mind that you may need to move the anubias to a more shaded area.



chonhzilla said:


> How do I get rid of this safely without harmful treatment? *and without clipping the leaves.* The anubias is the only plant that is affected with this algae?


*The text in bold:* You're probably not. You can try bleach dip, excel, H202, etc, but the leaves may very well be damaged....so You'll probably want to cut them off after all has been said and done.

Underlined text: That's your first big sign that it's too much light for that anubias in that spot under those conditions. :thumbsup: First fix your circulation and C02--fixed=the BBA is not growing, spreading--no *new* BBA. Then deal with the BBA that is there: cut, excel, bleach, etc....:thumbsup: Then you will probably still have the GSA which=too much light + not enough P04 or C02 or both.

Fix the issues and the problems will go away...:thumbsup:


HTH


----------



## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Naja002 said:


> You also already know that BBA= low C02. So, why all the heachaches, heartaches, problems, issues, song-and-dance....?


I was sharing my prior experience of handling BBA and what I've learned from that experience. I didn't know BBA = CO2 until _after_ I tried many other options.



> The reason that I posted my response in post #6 wasn't to "attack" you, pick a fight or anything of that nature.....


Such a thought hadn't even crossed my mind. We're just talking about BBA. :smile:



> it was simply to try to help anyone that reads this thread understand that that's _not_ "the highest you can go". Just need some more aeration aka surface movement. Then you can go higher. :thumbsup:


I understand. It's okay for people to use different methods as long as they are successful. My method worked great so I was offering it as a suggestion. You've added yet another suggestion. The more ideas and suggestions offered, the more options others can select from in order to find the option that works best for them.



> Why do You still have BBA in your tank?


The BBA started to come back because I moved my tank from my apartment to my house which required that I completely break down my entire tank. I have it set back up again and am currently in the process of adjusting my CO2 again. With new water parameters, I can't use my old settings so I'm having to find new settings that work which takes a little time.

I will disagree as to how the BBA entered my tank. It's okay if you don't agree, but I fully believe the BBA spores came into my tank by the anubias I bought. That's not to say that this is the only way BBA spores can enter a tank, and I may have exposed my tank by other means since then, but I know exactly when the BBA began. I know what plants I had in the tank, how they were growing, and when the BBA emerged and grew.

While, in general, I agree that BBA is more prone to slower growing plants, I don't think it's an iron clad rule. The BBA I have only attacks one of my three types of crypts in the tank. I don't know why it likes that one particular crypt and foregoes the others. It's actually the fastest growing crypt of the three I have. It's not the flow because two crypts have been side-by-side with just the one getting BBA.

Further, the BBA has a penchant for the roots of my pennywort which is not at all a slow grower. It doesn't attack the leaves or stems, just the roots. 

I suspect more goes into the cause of which plants get it and which do not than simply their growth rate; however, I will agree that there appears to be a general correlation between slow growing plants and BBA.


----------



## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Naja002 said:


> You can do the "Fish stress point level" and see if that fixes it. If not, then You'll need more aeration in order to add more ppm C02.


Very nicely said. This is the beauty of it. People hear of two different methods tried by two different people, each with excellent success. Choice and options is what it's all about.

Multiple people sharing multiple ideas is what makes a forum like this one so wonderful. :smile:


----------



## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

Ok, this is the point where I kick myself. Yeah, because I knew better. Yep, sure did. roud:

So,........You make a "study" of BBA since you have so much experience with it and access to it.....and, uh, let's see.....yeah, I'll just go ahead and enjoy not dealing with it, because I obviously have no idea what I'm talking about...:thumbsup:


K.I.S.S.


----------



## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Huh? Were you responding to my post? 

Please don't take any of this personally. We're just batting around ideas regarding BBA. At least that's what I think we're doing. Is there more going on than I know about?

Besides, while I never said you didn't know what you're talking about, what difference would it make if I did? Why would what I think be so important? Your self-esteem regarding your level of knowledge comes from within you, not from others posting differing ideas on a forum.


----------



## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

My experience is that BBA is the single hardest algae type to keep out of an aquarium. Even knowing that more CO2, or good CO2, or better water circulation will do a lot towards controlling it doesn't mean that when we add more CO2 and better water circulation that the BBA will vanish. It looks to me like you really have to get it all out of the tank by pruning it away, scraping it off, dipping in bleach solution, and cleaning up the substrate and water so there are zero visible spots or pieces of it in the tank. Then, perhaps the improved CO2 will keep it from returning. 

I know I have tried halfway measures many times only to have it return very quickly. The only times I have succeeded in eliminating it so I couldn't see any of it for several months was when I removed everything from the tank, except the substrate, and dipped everything in a bleach solution, scrubbed the dead stuff off with a toothbrush, replanted the surviving plants plus additional plants, and then added better CO2.

As I recall I had the best success doing that when I was using a CO2 mist system, but I don't know how important that was. Right now I am still battling the stuff, and I would swear I have as good a concentration of CO2 as I have ever had. My current infestation came when I was away from home for a week this summer.


----------



## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

Hoppy ya'll must have a different BBA then I had. I kicked it back with excel and prevented it with C02. I've not had a BBA issue in a long, long time. Like 2yrs or more. I've always thought it was the simplest, most straight-forward of all the algae. BBA=low C02. It's not been a problem for me...I don't know what else to say.


----------



## imeridian (Jan 19, 2007)

Indeed, same as Naja here. Once I switched from DIY to pressurized CO2 it basically disappeared over night (with a pair of SAEs to help at first). I haven't seen it since those DIY CO2 days. Hair algae on the other hand... that seems to be the bane of my plantkeeping existence, always ready and waiting for the slightest of provocations.


----------



## chonhzilla (Apr 22, 2008)

Ok, I've stepped up the CO2 rate, the drop checker is now at a light greenish yellow, I've also picked up a power head and placed it in such a way that the current is moving almost all the plants very lightly.

Also should I wait and see if that i'll help or should I got ahead and get the excel and do direct spot treatment?


----------



## imeridian (Jan 19, 2007)

I think you should do the Excel spot treatment, it's good to attack on multiple fronts.


----------



## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

Personally, I don't think it matters, but I also agree with imeridian....it won't do any harm to attack it on 2 fronts. When I kicked it back with excel...I just dosed it...I didn't spot treat. Not that it matters, but spot treating it should work as well or better. :thumbsup:

Whether you excel or not...the main point is: No New BBA.


----------



## chonhzilla (Apr 22, 2008)

sounds like a plan. Will do. 

I'd personally like to thank all the replies to my horrible problems. I appreciate you all taking the time to examine my situation. 

Thank you. 

*Keep the suggestions coming.*


----------



## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

imeridian said:


> ...with a pair of SAEs to help at first..


You may also want to consider adding one of these to your tanks and a bristlenose pleco. When I had this stuff in my 40 gallon. Pressurized c02 levels were okay, I was doing water changes 2x week at 50% to get rid of other kinds of algae, I was double dosing Excel, cut back on lighting to 8 hours split, and started with Tom Barr's Estimative Index, . I did not manually even remove the BBA and it was by far one of the most stubborn algae. 

The stuff literally vanished when I added a SAE and Bristlenose Pleco. These two guys made a buffet out of the BBA and literally consumed it all within a week. That was about 8 months ago and it has never come back. I have made no other changes that could account for this, No messing with c02 levels at all, believe it or not. Also FWIW, BBA did appear in my Tom Barr Type Low Tech setup after several months. This is a non c02 tank but does get Excel Dosing daily. In about 2 months it disappeared on its own. I have no explanation, other than it may not BBA or the Amano Shrimp and snails in the tank consumed it. However, I observed neither and again made no changes that would account for its sudden disappearance. 

Good Luck


----------



## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

I wonder if all BBA is the same? I've heard people talk about how easy it is to get rid of BBA while others, like me, have done everything possible, only to have it try to come back if given any opportunity.

The BBA I had (or is that have?) was weird in how it would not die from one particular crypt. I hit it directly with Excel and H2o2, and while all the BBA around that area turned a nice dead-red color, the BBA on the crypts just would not die. That baffled me more than anything. And wouldn't you know, it's those very same crypts that it's trying to come back on.

imeridian, I'm just the opposite. I find hair/thread algae very easy to kill out. Wanna trade algae? :icon_lol:

chonhzilla, definitely hit it with Excel. Raised CO2 will stop it from spreading, but at least with the BBA I've been fighting, it doesn't just go away. You have to physically kill it or remove it.

BTW, I have 9 true SAEs (young ones) and while they did help eat the BBA, they are obviously missing the new stuff that's wanting to grow back on the crypts. Like all things, they help, but aren't a solution. The CO2 is the only real solution I have ever found.

Keep us updated with your progress.


----------



## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Just to add more confusion to the mix, as far as I have been able to learn, nothing will eat BBA. It is disgusting stuff that all living creatures leave alone unless it is dead, then it becomes a treat for everyone. With my BBA, Excel will turn it red or purple, but it never seems to finish the job by killing it so it turns white. Only bleach seems to turn it white and kill it. Also, BBA always required lots of light to do well for me before, but now I have 55 watts of PC light on a 45 gallon tank, located 6 inches above the top of the tank, and I get BBA at all levels in the tank.

I am pretty certain that all of the algae we fight, BBA, GSA, GDA, etc. are generalized descriptions of several different algae. One example is GDA: all GDA attacks I have had up until this year was easily removed coatings of soft algae on the aquarium glass. I could wipe it off with a paper towel with no trouble at all. But, the kind I have some of now requires scraping to remove it. It isn't GSA because it is a uniform coating (relatively speaking), and when removed it it is a powder floating in the water, only to resettle on the glass the next day and resume growing. Also, the GDA I previously saw would go away if I left it alone for 3 weeks, but not what I have now.

Given that there are thousands of different algae on this planet I'm not surprised that there could be more than one version of those that inhabit our aquariums.


----------



## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

Hoppy said:


> One example is GDA: all GDA attacks I have had up until this year was easily removed coatings of soft algae on the aquarium glass. I could wipe it off with a paper towel with no trouble at all. But, the kind I have some of now requires scraping to remove it. It isn't GSA because it is a uniform coating (relatively speaking), and when removed it it is a powder floating in the water, only to resettle on the glass the next day and resume growing. Also, the GDA I previously saw would go away if I left it alone for 3 weeks, but not what I have now.


Hoppy--it's GSA. Think what you want, but it's GSA. The only algae issue that I am having in my super high-light tank these days is: GSA. When it forms on older leaves--it's little spots. When it starts on the glass it *looks* like GDA, but I let it grow, because I'm lazy. It doesn't take long to start looking like GSA--because that's what it is. :thumbsup: The only suggestion that I can make at this point is: Stop cleaning it up and let it grow--prove to yourself that it is indeed GSA. Otherwise, you're just chasing Ghosts...:thumbsup:



Hoppy said:


> Given that there are thousands of different algae on this planet I'm not surprised that there could be more than one version of those that inhabit our aquariums.


I agree in principle. But I've received plants from many different people from all over the country. I really don't think it's likely that I have just "gotten lucky" and not gotten some monster brand of BBA to "introduce" to my tank. Sorry, but, personally, I'm just not buying it. I don't believe that we "introduce" these algae spores to our tanks and then they run rampant taking advantage of an "imbalance" and reeking havoc. I believe that the spores are already there from day 1 or day 30--take your pick. :thumbsup:

I am willing to "put up" on this--Send me a plant with this monster brand of BBA and I will put it in my tank.....and we'll all see what happens. You donate the plant and I'll pay shipping. PM me, if ya wanna do this....:thumbsup:


----------



## mpodolan (Mar 27, 2007)

Naja002 said:


> I am willing to "put up" on this--Send me a plant with this monster brand of BBA and I will put it in my tank.....and we'll all see what happens. You donate the plant and I'll pay shipping. PM me, if ya wanna do this....:thumbsup:


This thread is great. Hopefully someone will offer up a plant. If I had one, I would, but I don't have any BBA right now.

FWIW, I agree with Naja and imeridian. I used to have major trouble with BBA in my 50g and 20g, but then I stopped completely trusting my drop checker. I switched to co2 misting in the 50 and kept going with my DIY reactor in the 20. I spot treated excel, which killed the BBA that I could see. I increased the co2 levels in both, and the BBA became a non-issue in both cases. 

The more we test these ideas/problems, the better off we all are. That's why I appreciate the work that Tom and others have done in this hobby. Replication is very important in science


----------



## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

It's really not about "someone" (ie, anyone) offering up a plant with BBA--I can create my own BBA. It's more about there being some monster BBA that doesn't respond to C02, etc....et al. I realize that on some level we introduce algae spores to our tanks.....but not in the sense that I think that idea was offerred. Before the panels of a glass tank are even assembled to make a tank--there are spores on the glass. Some algae spores are carried around by the air. So, _technically_, spores are already there before the tank is even assembled. Then when we set it up and add water--there are spores in the water supply.....so we add more spores.

I guess the point is: algae spores are everywhere. No, not every kind, but with the mass and rapid transportation these days--ships, trains, planes, etc--and all of the containers, packages, etc, etc, etc.....and then plant importing and swapping....I don't think that it's reasonable to assume that there is much algae left out there that I didn't "introduce" to my tank when I put the first plant or small group of plants inside it. Spores are everywhere....just because we don't _see_ the algae--does not mean that the ungerminated spores are not there.

The short version is: I don't believe for a second that I can run my tank for 6 months, a yr, 5 yrs and then get a plant from someone and suddenly "introduce" some monster algae. From what I have learned in life--that just makes no sense to me. :thumbsup:


----------



## mpodolan (Mar 27, 2007)

Naja002 said:


> It's really not about "someone" (ie, anyone) offering up a plant with BBA--I can create my own BBA. It's more about there being some monster BBA that doesn't respond to C02, etc....et al.


I understand that. I was only pointing out that the more opportunity we have to test these ideas and debunk these myths, the better it is for everyone. Specific evidence is very helpful when dealing with internet myths, IMHO


----------



## lancermit (Jan 21, 2004)

*What about siamensis?*

Yes, I DO realize the idea is to "get rid" of the BBA by altering chemistry, CO2, etc.; but, why hasn't anyone mentioned introducing a Siamese Algae Eater (true Siamensis) to the mix in the meantime?

During the (sometimes lengthy) course of making changes to water chemistry and everything else, the SAE could be clearing away the unsightly stuff. Just one healthy specimen could completely rid all of it in just a few days, or so.

Then, once all the other parameters are acceptable, the SAE could be useful in someone else's tank.


----------



## imeridian (Jan 19, 2007)

SAEs have been mentioned by both myself and Homer Simpson. I tend to think they get a bit large (and quickly so) to be adding to a 29 gallon though (should rehoming the fish prove impossible). I also tend to think that 'get this for that' type fish suggestions set bad precedent.


----------



## lancermit (Jan 21, 2004)

Oops, sorry imeridian (and Homer). I somehow missed those two posts. :icon_redf Y'all addressed that issue plenty well enough.

I successfully used three SAEs in my 75g which was overridden with BBA. Of course, I also maxed out the CO2 and added an extra helping of monopotassium phosphate to the EI regimen. I also decreased the lighting period somewhat. The BBA has yet to make an encore appearance.

I tend to agree with your view on "get this for that"; however, they really did help out alot, and quickly. Luckily, I was also able to rehome my SAEs to my neighbor who was having the beginnings of a BBA outbreak.


----------



## markalot (Apr 8, 2007)

I have BBA growing on my co2 diffuser ... I'll take a pic. I never had an issue with BBA until my last co2 tank change. I had issues getting a steady flow, ended up being a crack in my bubble counter, and now BBA is there and nothing seems to stop it.


----------

