# Moss Passion



## DennisSingh

The moss scene has seemed to die off a bit I believe, where'd all the experts go? Well I just wanted to post old pics of maybe just maybe inspiration as well as hoping other members would post pics of their moss here too. I used to try and collect every moss, now I'm into plants and discus, so I really don't want to see some sp dissappear from the scene like erect moss has...I'm hoping there are people out there that collect and grow in prime their all different mosses. 

Heres a moss received from jaggedfury, don't know what happend to her moss keeping but they was tiiiight. I have since lost the sp, or its just dried up on wood, can probably briing back but like I said into plants and discus more now but don't want to see this scene die out. This is Fontinalis Hypnoids, so much more beautiful than regular willow moss. Where'd u all go? Gomer! I'll be updating with old moss pictures, hope you do too.


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## slowgrower

I'm in. Slowly collecting all I can get my hands on. Currently have Flame, Weeping, Willow and Phoenix. Hoping to find more. Just sent a PM for some Taiwan and Christmas. Do you have any to share or just stirring the pot? Either way, I've got the moss bug and I hope to keep it alive!


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## DennisSingh

Prolly just stiring up the pot. All I have right now is weeping and some unknown looks like christmas but its not. These are just in a junk turtle tank.


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## DennisSingh

Fontinalis Hypnoids is also one of the cleaner mosses which makes for a great wall, it attaches better than some mosses, and you can even plant it in the dirt and it'll still grow and shine.



















If you want your mosses to grow prime, lighting is one of the most important aspects to your tank and how much light the moss gets. I'm just going to keep throwing tips in. Growing bright green tips outta your moss is a great way to start growing. I'll see if I have any example pics. I call it ballin.


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## DennisSingh

A comparison between the real willow and hypnoids. As you can see willow is a lot stringier and hypnoids a lot thicker and flowerier...

willow








willow









hypnoids, dam thats clean

















I've got a lot of pictures to share, join in on the fun


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## thechibi

I <3 moss. It's so lush and multipurpose and green.


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## DennisSingh

word on all.

Here are examples of bright green tips that foreshadows great growth. Tips are usually a lot lighter in green bright green to white.

taiwan









xmas









weeping


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## DennisSingh

When people say moss pearls or certain moss pearls, I believe this is false. Its just like a water change. I relate pearling more to be streaming bubbles and such..I have never ever witnessed any moss stream.
taiwan false pearl









weeping false pearl









sorry, this is not in any particular order


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## brooklynfishman

What was the moss that looked like the Taiwan but grew straight up? I dont think it was erect or was that the "TRUE" erect moss and the smaller one called "stringy"? I had that once 7-8 years ago and wish I had some more now.


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## DennisSingh

Leptodictyum riparium stringy moss if looks like this:









in its prime









Fissidens Phoenix will also have the same effect:



























The true erect moss is prolly what ur talking about. It branches out


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## sketch804

wow nice fiss.! I have never seen any fiss that looks like that! I have had many different mosses through out the years of keeping plants, but eventually they all die or I end up ripping them out with out realizing that I don't have anymore, but they seem to come and go, always nice to get some new moss..Flame moss was one of my fav mosses to grow! Grows fast, looks great, but is a horrible algae magnet!


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## tatersalad

Awesome thread, I love seeing all the pics of the different kinds of mosses. When I first got into the hobby ages ago, I thought the only kind of moss available in the us was "java" moss. I can grow it like a weed as pretty much anyone can. I now have some fiss and some peacock moss that is really responding well to my high tech setup. Thanks for the pics


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## diwu13

This site is really good: http://www.aquamoss.net/Moss-List.htm but you can't search through it easily unless you have some idea what moss you're talking about.

These pictures really help StrungOut!


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## DennisSingh

Thanks for replies and encouragements. Diwu that sites awesome, I have most of my pics up there when my moss game was at the top of its' game. It used to be the main reason moss to thrive would be cooler to colder water, here is a picture of moss at 80degrees doing just fine...Cooler water is still another theory to me. My new crazy theory is just has an established tank where there is plenty of flow and bb besides the nitrogen cycle(I just learned recently from another member that there is a lot of beneficial bacteria that keep our plants or system healthy other than the nitrogen cycle) and just keeping your water clean and crisp. Ideally suited environments for shrimps and such except maybe sulawesi but wouldn't be surprised. I like to always promote clean water as well as carbon in the filter system.



















co2 is absolutely unnecessary but is beneficial to sp' like fissidens, pellia, riccardias. 
Here are fts's, I keep it clean, lighting disperses well in the cleaner of waters.














































Feel free to throw in pictures and information, some of you know more than me, come on.


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## DennisSingh

I used to swear by cotton thread, but ever since this will never use it to attach again. I now only use fishing line. THINK ABOUT IT, the better you tie it, the more "secure" it feels and adapts. I'm not saying overdo it so the moss has no light but if you look at all my pics, pretty much tying is almost all the same. Other people use mesh, staples, glue and so on, I would like to try glue but would always be scared. Fishing line is just fine for me.


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## jkan0228

That only happens to cheap thread. Get the braided ones. They should atleast last longer. How long was it before your thread snapped? Mine was about 2-3 weeks.


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## DennisSingh

Yeah about the same timeframe thx!


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## Erirku

Dennis I truely am amazed at your moss collection!!! Even when I was a beginner you were the only person I would purchase from and still will!!! Keep up the good work!!! Hope to purchase from you in the future!!! thanks


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## rollinghills

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll14/StrungOut_bucket/drew609.jpg

What moss is this?


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## DennisSingh

Erirku said:


> Dennis I truely am amazed at your moss collection!!! Even when I was a beginner you were the only person I would purchase from and still will!!! Keep up the good work!!! Hope to purchase from you in the future!!! thanks


Thanks Eric, I'm not doing mosses anymore, this is all old stuff so no longer selling, I am really hoping this will inspire you all.

@Rollin
That would be Vesicularia ferrari***spelling weeping moss.


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## DennisSingh

Building the wall

These are the materials I use and will ever use. 

Plastic mesh from home depot
Large suction cups from target remove the hooks
zip ties and moss

Chooose your moss you want, make sure you have enough. Fit the suction cups in tight by using plyers to bend the plastic. Place your moss, and zip tie. Then suction your wall to where you want to put it into the aquarium. The problems with walls are you can only keep shrimp, fish get caught in them and are incapable of maneuvering out.

This wall I chose weeping moss.








stripped

























growing in


















other walls

















I love creating a wall and giving it or selling and seeing it into another tank. Heres one I gave my bro:









It really doesn't matter how big or small you make your wall, its good if you don't have much space room in your tank, heres mini xmas mini wall. Got a small patch from glndrifts, quality stuff.


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## audioaficionado

> The problems with walls are you can only keep shrimp, fish get caught in them and are incapable of maneuvering out.












If you leave enough space behind it, can't the fish get out?


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## DennisSingh

Yeah but how?


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## MichaelMcG

if you grow moss on a rock or piece of drift wood do you guys eventually cut the fishing line off of the rock or do you leave the line permanently? if you cut it off how long do you wait?


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## DennisSingh

About two months of moss growth, I strip all the moss off and cut the line and clean the wood best I can retie lightly and propagate massively.


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## audioaficionado

audioaficionado said:


> If you leave enough space behind it, can't the fish get out?





StrungOut said:


> Yeah but how?


Longer extensions on the suction cups to make more room behind or glue the mesh directly to the tank back so they can't get in. Those cardinals looked like they were doing alright the way he had it.


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## daworldisblack

I have a bunch of green thread algae on my fissidens mat and am too scared to do a bleach treatment. Any other suggestions? Or would bleach treatment be fine? Not sure how sensitive this species is. Thanks.


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## DennisSingh

daworldisblack said:


> I have a bunch of green thread algae on my fissidens mat and am too scared to do a bleach treatment. Any other suggestions? Or would bleach treatment be fine? Not sure how sensitive this species is. Thanks.


Try ramshorn snails, or nerites or any other natural solution if your too afraid to glud. I'll cover algae later, once you get it, its really hard to eradicate and a real pain. I see you have mts, more about the soil than algae control. Your fissidens looks nice though, I would try small excel doses.


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## ikuzo

bleach?
all mossy type plant will die 

or at least that's what happened with my moss before
expensive learning experience


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## DennisSingh

Vesicularia reticulata seems gone from the hobby, I have tried so hard in trades and such to obtain it with no avail. I've seen plenty of fakes though. The true stuff likes to branch out.

short growth on left side is partly emmersed so filled even higher looks like that, just the shorter more thicker compact fronds you see on the left side of the major focus driftwood.









Fake I believe, grows not stringy but doesn't frond out.









emmersed









and just other views

















Notice the sick rhizomes on this plant, never attaches but it looks bad as.


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## DennisSingh

ikuzo said:


> bleach?
> all mossy type plant will die
> 
> or at least that's what happened with my moss before
> expensive learning experience


No not bleach, excel, metricide 14, 28 and such. but lightly


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## daworldisblack

Thanks Guys. I actually have Cherry Shrimp, SAE, Ramshorns (Red) and a Zebra Nerite in this tank but I dont think any of them are interested in that algae species. I'll guess i'll take it out and do a excel treatment - probably wont do it in the tank as I have other plants in the tank that could potentially melt. So when you say a "light" treatment, what do you mean? x2, x3 etc the recommended dose? Lol you mentioned you're going to cover algae later but i guess this is a segway into it? ;p

I love mosses and I fear I got into the hobby after its prime was over. I started with java and acquired fissidens afterwards. Then I got some Christmas Moss and won some Willow Moss strands recently at an auction!


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## raven_wilde

I'm still way into moss... seems to be what I grow best!



















Got it growing out in my fry tanks too... all told I've got my hands on:
Mini Pellia, Xmas, Weeping, Peacock, Flame and Fissidens.

Keep your eyes on the SnS later today... I'm getting ready to list some of it for sale


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## DennisSingh

Dose it 1x 2x 3x shouldn't melt your plants, will slow reproduction of the cherries and maybe hinder fauna as it is just a sterilizer and I don't think has any benefit in carbon as it can't be absorbed, but someone else would know more. If you really overdose you should see the tips of your plants start to look like they've been bleached, if you mega dose, like half the bottle, you'll start to melt your plants...




daworldisblack said:


> Thanks Guys. I actually have Cherry Shrimp, SAE, Ramshorns (Red) and a Zebra Nerite in this tank but I dont think any of them are interested in that algae species. I'll guess i'll take it out and do a excel treatment - probably wont do it in the tank as I have other plants in the tank that could potentially melt. So when you say a "light" treatment, what do you mean? x2, x3 etc the recommended dose? Lol you mentioned you're going to cover algae later but i guess this is a segway into it? ;p
> 
> I love mosses and I fear I got into the hobby after its prime was over. I started with java and acquired fissidens afterwards. Then I got some Christmas Moss and won some Willow Moss strands recently at an auction!


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## DennisSingh

raven_wilde said:


> I'm still way into moss... seems to be what I grow best!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Got it growing out in my fry tanks too... all told I've got my hands on:
> Mini Pellia, Xmas, Weeping, Peacock, Flame and Fissidens.
> 
> Keep your eyes on the SnS later today... I'm getting ready to list some of it for sale


Sick tank, specs?


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## DennisSingh

Sulawesi mosses- millow, sulawesi, goronthalo, towuti
About a year ago I got some mosses through a member from san diego. I thought since I can grow any moss I could grow this stuff too. dead wrong. Still have all of them and hopefully one day they will come back. The two successes were goronthalo submerged and towuti emmersed (little little little moisture in this one) There must be some secret to the waters of sulawesi besides hard water and high ph as my tap is pretty up there. 7.6-8 at least. One of them I'd like to grow is triangular

labels and jarred, sorry just labels. not much to look at.

































towuti-jarred up, little moisture, never ever barely gets opened, coral bubble sand subs

















goronthalo


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## raven_wilde

StrungOut said:


> Sick tank, specs?


See the link in my sig... its the 'Ebiwagumi' Edge. :icon_lol:


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## James (Western Canada)

StrungOut: Could you please elaborate on what department we might find the mesh in & what the original intended purpose of it was??
HD is a big place, could take a great deal of time randomly wandering isles to find it

Thanks!
James




StrungOut said:


> Building the wall
> 
> These are the materials I use and will ever use.
> 
> *Plastic mesh from home depot*
> Large suction cups from target remove the hooks
> zip ties and moss
> 
> Chooose your moss you want, make sure you have enough. Fit the suction cups in tight by using plyers to bend the plastic. Place your moss, and zip tie. Then suction your wall to where you want to put it into the aquarium. The problems with walls are you can only keep shrimp, fish get caught in them and are incapable of maneuvering out.
> 
> This wall I chose weeping moss.


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## diwu13

audioaficionado said:


> If you leave enough space behind it, can't the fish get out?


I think with fish they can't swim backwards. So if they get their fins caught a bit they get stuck behind the wall and die :\. Shrimp are able to "jump" backwards so they have no risk of getting stuck. I had a fish die from swimming too close to a pantyhose I had covering the filter intake and having part of it's fin pulled off :\ Ugh.



James (Western Canada) said:


> StrungOut: Could you please elaborate on what department we might find the mesh in & what the original intended purpose of it was??
> HD is a big place, could take a great deal of time randomly wandering isles to find it
> 
> Thanks!
> James


I think he's using the mesh that you cover screen doors with. You can also go to any craft store and look for rigid plastic mesh. It'll be white though. Doesn't really make a difference when the moss grows out.


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## trixella

rollinghills said:


> http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll14/StrungOut_bucket/drew609.jpg
> 
> What moss is this?


Weeping.


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## audioaficionado

Tenax 3 ft. x 15 ft. Black Hardware Net


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## DennisSingh

Lets take a little break from mosses and enjoy these pictures from Vietnam.
my dream tank









island off nha trang









more randoms

























































Mui Ne


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## DennisSingh

The orbiting moss ball. They sell these mossballs at certain petcos for about 5-7 bucks, not sure what moss they use, its probably a pinpong ball but the way they attached it seems difficult. Anyways heres its revolution before I gave it away. Its attached to a lead weight.


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## DennisSingh

thx for replies guys and helping each other out.


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## daworldisblack

StrungOut said:


>


Neat Idea! Imagine Flame moss here


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## diwu13

This guy had an amazing idea with moss ladders: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/40170-moss-rope-ladder.html but it seems he left this forum . Hasn't posted/visited since 2010. But look around at those pictures for anyone who wants to do cool things with cool moss


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## diwu13

Vietnam looks amazing. Are you Vietnamese?


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## audioaficionado

diwu13 said:


> This guy had an amazing idea with moss ladders: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/40170-moss-rope-ladder.html but it seems he left this forum . Hasn't posted/visited since 2010. But look around at those pictures for anyone who wants to do cool things with cool moss


Very cool roud:


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## thechibi

Oh, WOW. That is seriously cool. I may have to give that a try one day.


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## raven_wilde

That is pretty cool... think I may have a go at this in my fry tank, I kinda use it as a place to experiment with stuff like this.


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## DennisSingh

Great link Diwu! Yep viet/indian, sorry i've slowed the update down a bit, so so many pics to go through.


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## DennisSingh

More to come folks:




















O2, water, secrets
Algae
Debris
Recovery
Progression


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## jkan0228

Anyone got any nice scapes with Mini Pellia? Recently required a petite amount and looking as to where/how to use it.


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## DennisSingh

Some nice rarities, these are very hard to come by.

Trichromes sp.









mini fissidens









together









rose a little more common

























unknown moss wish i had back
if i can name this b i would name it divine moss


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## DennisSingh

Mini pellia is a liverworth that attaches to things emmersed but will not submerged once attached emmersed submersing it will set it loose.

I lost those nice pictures...










See this pellia was grown emmersed attached by nothing but itself, eventually it just detached and disappeared in the tank somewhere.


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## sepulvd

trying to figure out what type of miss this is


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## raven_wilde

jkan0228 said:


> Anyone got any nice scapes with Mini Pellia? Recently required a petite amount and looking as to where/how to use it.


Check the link in my sig to my Edge tank... I've got it in there and it grows like crazy. It is correct though that it never really attaches to anything, but unlike Round Pellia (Subwassertang) it sicks together very well in a clump and so long as that clump is held down the rest of it will stay.


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## DennisSingh

sepulvd said:


> View attachment 45989
> trying to figure out what type of miss this is


Looks to me like a taxiphyllum perhaps spiky/peacock


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## sepulvd

Thank u Will it spread out thru out the substrate or will it just stay around the mat I put it on


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## ikuzo

spypet was banned for some reason
but yes he did some interesting ideas 
moss rope, even a string of hanging anubias 

this reminds me
have you guys seen this video?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhvzRtUYJZ0

see at 5:15
amano is chopping moss
i haven't tried this before but i suppose it will work if you dry start your tank for a few days to let the moss cling at the rock nicely before you fill water
at the video they fill it immediately

old idea perhaps
i've read it here in this forum Tom (plantbrain) even suggest to blender the moss before you apply to anything


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## DennisSingh

This is my first experience with Amano or Barr chopping up moss, very cool! I would worry about the moss detaching eventually, but would like to see a mature aquarium


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## DennisSingh

Algae
This segment sucks because I really do not know a good way of fully eradicating algae. If your system gets it and you can't figure the situation theres no way of getting rid of it. Here are ways to get it down a little bit. If anybody has better ideas than go ahead.










































































Water changes may be the best way and only way to fully eradicate besides excel.

Natural ways: algae eating fauna
snails-ramshorns and nerites are good battlers
ottos
shrimp-these guys don't really do their job
add more plants ie floaters and reduce lighting
ramshorn








Army of Ramshorn








otto








shrimp









chemical-excel, metricide 14
with these you have to worry about which fauna you have and I guess overdosing, I have not tried overdosing excel metricide on moss.

Manual removal- yeah good luck

Figure out the problem, with this tank I could've sworn I had everything perfect so I ruled down that it was the pool filter sand leaching silicates leading to the brown algaes and whatever else. I was too lazy to do anything and went another route with the tank.
Figure out what algae you have and research what causes that algae.


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## DennisSingh

Rhizoids are those brownish hairs you see undersides of moss which serve the purpose of attachment. Some mosses will grow these hairs and never attach.









Capsules are sign of a mosses maturity. Some mosses I've never seen produce capsules like pretty much any type of taxiphyllum species I've grown has never produced capsules for me. Capsules are a sign of reproduction. Mosses don't disperse seeds but rather reproduce by capsules.


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## acitydweller

*subscribed*

What a wonderful thread.

i find no matter what kind of moss, i see awesome growth as long as its attached, mid level with clear exposure to light and moderate to high flow of water current. the rest is up to nature.

ive often seen regular java moss grow densely and in criss cross pattern, which is beautiful in itself. 

have taken inspiration from all those posted to start attaching some mosses to my driftwood, hopefully today.

thank you all for sharing and inspiring


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## sepulvd

I was wondering will mosses survive a two weeks in the mail. I ordered some online and it's been around ten days haven't recieved them yet hoping for the best


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## DennisSingh

sepulvd said:


> I was wondering will mosses survive a two weeks in the mail. I ordered some online and it's been around ten days haven't recieved them yet hoping for the best


Yes it should if they sent you healthy green moss. It'll for sure make the trip. I hear stories of AM sending poor moss, but they probably had poor emmersed stuff compared to good emmersed stuff to begin with. I'm not here to bash anybody though and AM has sent me good mosses in the past just rather not go through the whole customs crap and wait so long.

Thanks a whole lot @ citydweller.


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## acitydweller

ive ordered fissidens online which originated in asia. though it took about 3 weeks to arrive, they were tightly sealed in plastic (albeit in a soft envelope which seemed to have been compressed at some point). As long as the moss is kept moist, it ought to hold up. upon openning, it just looked like black mush and i gently soaked it in cold water and direct sunlight for the first few days. i would wager any longer and the entire order of mosses would have decayed. It took about a month for this pack to come back looking healthy and has since lined the bottom of my shrimp tank beautifully... That much time away from light is definitely a concern for normal plants but i suppose mosses are far more durable.

I purchased willow moss from a LFS which was sourced from an emersed wholeseller. they took a large dry bag of moss out of the fridge and pinched about a golfball portion.

it wasnt until i brought it home that i noticed about 40-50% was black strings or dead. Not sure if all mosses are able to be grown emersed and it was my first moss purchase in the store. It has since been 3 weeks and the leafy parts have grown, but not enough to overcome the noticibly dead portions. i keep it in a glass jar on my windowsill with full daylight and monitor it daily. Now i know what to look for and to be weary of the dead stringy portions before purchase... Live and learn...


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## DennisSingh

Fissidens would be an exception, but for the most part 2-3 weeks should doable for healthy moss. I wondered how your willow moss looked when first shipped. The less moisture in shipping the better. No moisture, no good, but the moss is already wet and retains most of that upon shipping.



acitydweller said:


> ive ordered fissidens online which originated in asia. though it took about 3 weeks to arrive, they were tightly sealed in plastic (albeit in a soft envelope which seemed to have been compressed at some point). As long as the moss is kept moist, it ought to hold up. upon openning, it just looked like black mush and i gently soaked it in cold water and direct sunlight for the first few days. i would wager any longer and the entire order of mosses would have decayed. It took about a month for this pack to come back looking healthy and has since lined the bottom of my shrimp tank beautifully... That much time away from light is definitely a concern for normal plants but i suppose mosses are far more durable.
> 
> I purchased willow moss from a LFS which was sourced from an emersed wholeseller. they took a large dry bag of moss out of the fridge and pinched about a golfball portion.
> 
> it wasnt until i brought it home that i noticed about 40-50% was black strings or dead. Not sure if all mosses are able to be grown emersed and it was my first moss purchase in the store. It has since been 3 weeks and the leafy parts have grown, but not enough to overcome the noticibly dead portions. i keep it in a glass jar on my windowsill with full daylight and monitor it daily. Now i know what to look for and to be weary of the dead stringy portions before purchase... Live and learn...


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## jkan0228

For algae, have you thought of Amano shrimp? They actually do their job.


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## DennisSingh

I think both snails I mentioned do a better job at tackling algae or just the same as amanos, but algae will prevail....


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## jkan0228

Any army of amanos is impossible to beat algae eating wise. Literally get an army of them and the algae should be gone. If its still growing, I'd say reduce te lighting period.


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## DennisSingh

One of the easiest ways to grow moss is emmersed as you literally don't have to do anything.

The method I used in the picture is about 1-2 inches of water, sealed with plastic wrap, and of course moss is tied to driftwood. I've tried the soil way and the moss just died on me. I don't know how GG did it way back if you know GG... He did it with erect moss and christmas moss and did they look tight, wish I had his pictures. With my method you never have to worry about your moss drying out as water will rise up from the water column and provide the essentials for the mosses on the wood. Nutrients derived from air and water.

I had a lot of great emmersed photos I lost, its on a dvd but the dvd doesn't read, crap quality Sonys. I'll stick with Verbatim. If anyone can retrieve these pictures for me locally I'll give you like 10 bucks or like a present or something.

U want to make sure it gets shaded and indirect sunlight!

no fts...sigh..

































close ups

















soil method:









More pics:


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## DennisSingh

Christmas moss is what sparked me into moss, I mean I started out with the "old" java you know the one thats now named taxiphyllum barbieri and grew it just fine and well, but seeing a moss wall of christmas moss I and starting to be able to grow these other mosses really got me into it. This moss grows in a hard to describe rectangular/triangular structure. 

Vesicularia montagnei
















emmersed growth converging to submersed


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## DennisSingh

Mini xmas moss its counterpart grows way way smaller fronds which are more triangular. Looks just as great, if not even better. One of the newer mosses in the hobby which is gonna prolly last as well. Easy to grow on the difficulty scale. Hard to grow mosses??? Iono star moss? but thats not even aquatic..


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## DennisSingh

Theory and theory only...Well most of my stuff goes based on theory. MOSS will ADaPT to a variable of conditions. Once adapted it will use whatever is available to survive and evolve even further. Here is my moss in high tech tank which is already dying fast. I'm going to give it two months from now to see if it starts to even do anything.


















If it doesn't bounce back and its all dead I'll try and show you that EVEN then you put it back into a good moss tank or emmersed it'll still recover. I've seen incredible recovery with this stuff.


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## acitydweller

Hi Strung,

Was this portion originally grown emersed? 

Or was this piece grown in tank then CO2 was added?


Regarding your DVD, consider trying different dvd-roms as performance will vary by manufacturer and by age of the device... ive had some old backup dvd's that wouldnt play in an old TEAC drive but play perfectly on a Liteon or Plextor.

once reading is established, copy that stuff immediately off the disc. 



StrungOut said:


> If it doesn't bounce back and its all dead I'll try and show you that EVEN then you put it back into a good moss tank or emmersed it'll still recover. I've seen incredible recovery with this stuff.


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## DennisSingh

Nope this moss was just in "storage" in a junk tank with only indirect sunlight.


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## DennisSingh

No pictures here but for DEBRIS on your moss COLLECTORITIS on your moss, what you can do is take the moss out, rinse and make sure ur tank is water clear b4 putting back into tank. Or u can siphon the debris off by waving a current with ur hand and siphoning whatever comes off that way with other hand.


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## DennisSingh

StrungOut said:


> Theory and theory only...Well most of my stuff goes based on theory. MOSS will ADaPT to a variable of conditions. Once adapted it will use whatever is available to survive and evolve even further. Here is my moss in high tech tank which is already dying fast. I'm going to give it two months from now to see if it starts to even do anything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it doesn't bounce back and its all dead I'll try and show you that EVEN then you put it back into a good moss tank or emmersed it'll still recover. I've seen incredible recovery with this stuff.


Removed the driftwood out, canceling this test as I'm getting new plants in and need to clear room which I am more stoked over than this. I don't think it'll work anyways, the moss is already getting stringy hair algae which I can't eradicate, so I'm going to set up prolly an emmersed tank for it. Right now its in a styrofoam box. The bouncing back emmersed will work but I don't think it'll bounce back in this high tech tank.


----------



## DennisSingh

Mosses do well in low tech tanks, along with mosses you can add other hardy plants like swords (echinodorus), anubias, crypts, downoi, staurogyne, lets see what else, bolbitis, pennyworth, lots and lots you can do. Just check out the low tech thread on this site of peoples tanks and you will see all the different plants you can put in with. As for high tech, I've never been able to grow moss in high tech and just getting into high tech now too.

E. Red Diamond, if anyone has this plant please contact me


----------



## DennisSingh

Fissidens is different from other mosses in that it seems to thrive more with co2, with this being said, it'll still do fine and great in low tech no co2 tank. sp's out there are Geppi, fontanus, phoenix, mini and so on. I've never had geppi

fiss fontanus

































phoenix


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## DennisSingh

Flame moss is a taxiphyllum sp that grows upward and will keep growing upwards. The length of a frond I don't think has any limitations growing. Unlike other taxiphyllum sp, this one does not anchor well. Emmersed it will grow upward as well just not as long.


----------



## DennisSingh

Making a carpet is pretty much the same concept as everything else. Tie it down to something and anchor it to down. I've not much experience in this at all, but most people use SS mesh. Heres a snap to get an idea

Ferreiri*









storing moss temporarily is easy, just put it in a ziplock with some water and float it up at the top. This is a great great way of letting your moss adapt to your water conditions. You can also store emmersed or figure out all sorts of ways.

















see it grew..


----------



## sepulvd

This is great thread am learning alot since am mostly puttin moss in my kids tank keep simple for them


----------



## furnfins

I also enjoyed this tread. I've grown moss in my 10g, java,xmas and fire. The java moss took over the tank. I kind of let it go for a while. Then gave it a haircut, too much debris in it and the tank bottom(white sand) got dirty all the time. Does this happen to most mosses? Or did I just maybe feed too much? I'm cycling a 40g and looking for moss for this tank. It's got T5HE lighting 2bulbs 21w each one is 10,000k and they other is 67000. I was told this is good for mosses and low light plants. Hopefully will be able to add a picture here in a few weeks.


----------



## DennisSingh

@sepulvd doing this thread for you guys THX

@furnfins Mosses generally get a lot of debris but if grown nicely the moss usually overcomes with great growth and you cannot see it. My last post is progression, i personally like 6500k, but in that post you I use a 10k bulb, even actinics are good for growing moss, seriously.


----------



## tatersalad

This whole thread makes me want to take all my plants out and just wrap a crap load of driftwood with all different kinds of mosses and make up 5 or 10 of those moss ropes.
I'd like to set up a big moss only tank, but I think my wife will leave me if I say anything about doing another tank.


----------



## Michiba54

Cool thread, I just got done putting my first moss (Taiwan) on some SS mesh an 3 lava rocks... the largest of which floats, ugh. :angel:

btw, Do I want the moss on the mesh moss side up or down? I placed a thin layer of moss on the mesh an wrapped it with thread semi tight an the tank is low tech-ish if that matters.


----------



## DennisSingh

Michiba54 said:


> Cool thread, I just got done putting my first moss (Taiwan) on some SS mesh an 3 lava rocks... the largest of which floats, ugh. :angel:
> 
> btw, Do I want the moss on the mesh moss side up or down? I placed a thin layer of moss on the mesh an wrapped it with thread semi tight an the tank is low tech-ish if that matters.


Cool cool. It really doesn't matter as long as its getting light.


----------



## brooklynfishman

Being an AVID fisherman, also remember that fishing line distributes light away from itself, so by using fishing line to tie down the moss you sort of have a "reflector" right on top of the moss which imo helps out. All other thread and mesh and stuff will absorb the light...


----------



## kuro

StrungOut said:


> Mini pellia is a liverworth that attaches to things emmersed but will not submerged once attached emmersed submersing it will set it loose.


I grew my mini pelia emmerse and after i submerge it continue to grow attach to driftwood and spread out very nice and fast, it spread even faster if you remove the one that growing upward, my goldfish love to eat mini pelia lol.


----------



## DennisSingh

kuro said:


> I grew my mini pelia emmerse and after i submerge it continue to grow attach to driftwood and spread out very nice and fast, it spread even faster if you remove the one that growing upward, my goldfish love to eat mini pelia lol.


Really...I guess I must've had too much flow on the tank then.


----------



## DennisSingh

acitydweller said:


> Hi Strung,
> 
> Was this portion originally grown emersed?
> 
> Or was this piece grown in tank then CO2 was added?
> 
> 
> Regarding your DVD, consider trying different dvd-roms as performance will vary by manufacturer and by age of the device... ive had some old backup dvd's that wouldnt play in an old TEAC drive but play perfectly on a Liteon or Plextor.
> 
> once reading is established, copy that stuff immediately off the disc.


Dude, I tried three different players and nothing worked...sigh, anyone in socal have a good player?


----------



## DennisSingh

The wood I use: anything that'll sink, soak your wood for a good week first replacing the water each day to release all the tannins, I frankly don't care and let my water get brownish, but most of my woods been aged for years. Types of wood out there are:

manzanita (good sources Tom Barr, Manzanita aka Raven and looks spectacular) also manzanita is pretty much universal in california you can hack it up at risk of huge fine from the mountains, malaysian (personal favorite), african root (nice thick stuff), cholla wood ( great hiding places for shrimp with the many holes and such), these all sink eventually.


----------



## DennisSingh

random break pics eye candy
weeping v ferreiri









cute corys
































whatcha loooking at








flame w/debris
















willow








f. fontanus tied to rock








shrimps








































sunbathing?

















shrimps love that moss, if you got shrimps put em in a moss tank.


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## acitydweller

hey, is that a blue pearl or blue rili shrimp? never saw one that looked so good. 

question growing moss.

i have placed moss in quart containers and set them by my windows at home. I put some pond snails (excess from my other tanks) to help produce some waste for them to feed on. the water is changed out every 3rd day. growth has varied as i notice moss like water flow and space to spread. The containers are fairly dense with no flow. Wondering if someone had a different or more effective regiment to share.


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## DennisSingh

Thats a blue rili shrimp.

As for your quart containers, how is the setup? If your floating moss in water in stale uncycled water the moss will grow rather stringy and such, best way is to attach it. But doing it that way its much much better to just grow the moss emmersed. Can you elaborate more on your setup and able to share pictures?

For updates, coming soon...


----------



## acitydweller

i'll try to take some today. admittedly, my growth pratices are a tad unconventional add more out of practicality if im honest. Just dont have enough space in the tanks.


----------



## chad320

Here are some of my mosses

Mini pellia










Willow (wild collected local)










Mini rose










Fissidens fontanus










Queen moss










Singapore










Subwassertang (bottom right)










Notocyphus










A better shot of Queen moss










Weeping (background)


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## DennisSingh

Oh tight Chad, really impressed. Ur mini rose, queen and mini pellia look superb. What conditions are you using to grow your mosses?


----------



## chad320

It kind of depends on the moss. Anything from dirt in a deli cup to low tach cool water to high tech medium temp. The 3 that you mentioned are room temp 68* Co2, PPS-Pro fert tanks, 6.5 Ph, med-high light. I see some things that would be worth trading for of your moss collection. Im sure I have them but it would be nice to hash out some names for them. Moss ID is terrible at best. Ive bought Singapore 3 times and got 3 completely different mosses.


----------



## DennisSingh

Right now I don't really have a moss collection but would contact you if I ever do need any mosses. I'm surprised you get away with high tech and fertilizing.


----------



## chad320

Why do you say this? Im more surprised that the low tech stuff isnt smothered in algae faster. Most of the trick is clean moss going into a clean tank if im smelling what your stepping in


----------



## DennisSingh

Yes Yes, clean stable water is key!


----------



## chad320

StrungOut said:


> Yes Yes, clean stable water is key!


...and a pair of tweezers  Moss is secretly the shortened version of Mostly Other Stringy Stuff :hihi:


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## DennisSingh

@chad iono bout the tweezers  as I never used them and moss did evolve from algae and I always say "treat it as such"

Spiky moss/peacock - taxiphyllum sp
Just like any taxiphyllum this moss adheres well to wood and other things. It has quite the exotic look to it if grown prime. Not much in my pics but it gets a real featherly look and easily balls at tips


----------



## DennisSingh

taxiphyllum alternans aka taiwan moss is a great great starter moss. It grows fairly easily like most mosses do but even faster and easilyer. Its very common and can take on different structures and generally is what most available on the threads. A lot of people mislabel xmas moss which is actually taiwan.


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## DennisSingh

Its counterpart is mini taiwan, I don't think you can get this moss anywhere but from Singapore which the moss boom of id's and new mosses came out of. It all originated at killies.com which is no more. Since the killies forum transfered to aquaticquotient the industry has seemed to die off not completely though. beautiful moss, grows a bit like java.

Don't have many pics of this moss nor do I have the moss itself anymore


----------



## DennisSingh

Okay this thread is almost wrapping up. 
Still got my weeping moss and my article at the top of my head. May I petition for this to be a sticky? Plz plz plz, theres not many moss threads compared to sale threads, if not its cool, I'm satisfied with the amount of views alone. Real happy bout this one.


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## CL

This thread brings me back. Reminds me of my old moss tanks. I think I'll have to get ahold of some good ole flame moss this summer.

Here's some of my old moss themed tanks
























Flame moss








My first shrimp tank, and first moss (java of course)


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## DennisSingh

Love the carpet and flame moss looks spectacular. You've got moss skills

Eye candy, one of Loh's tanks


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## Wulfyn

+10 for becomming a sticky, sticky this so it doesn't get lost. Would be easy to find for those with moss questions.


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## chad320

How about some aquatic mosses grown emergent just for some reference?

Taiwan









Flame









Mini Xmas









Peacock









Notocyphus


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## DennisSingh

@Wulfyn thanks whole lot for support

Chad now I am really impressed, I've never been able to grow in soil emmersed though I only tried once. I bet its like aquasoil instead of potting soil right? You gotta tell me your secret. Indirect sunlight? Capped(sealed) or misted? any added fertz? or just from atmosphere?
what else what else...


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## DennisSingh

Or how about a subforum just for mosses, liverworts, pellias and riccardia that chad can moderate?


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## CL

Chad, that notocyphus seems really interesting. Where did you get it from?


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## DennisSingh

Next up is Moss Progression, iono if I should even do this post, it has 279 photos, no words to it, just showing pictures of growth...This all turns lush green but its going to take many pages...what do you guys think? fudge it, i'll do it and try to limit the amount of photos.










Got some sorting to do.
Tank specs:
17 gallon ada 60p
eco complete substrate
sun sun 302b?
tap water
36watt pc light 10,000k bulb****
flow rate is insane to normal depending on how filter gets clogged and then cleaned with water changes.

calculated it and 18 pics per post for 279 pics, i don't "feel" like eliminating pics


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## DennisSingh

CL said:


> Chad, that notocyphus seems really interesting. Where did you get it from?


I've only seen it sold out of country and by Jaggedfury

couple great links:

www.aquamoss.net owned by Tan SW, great buddy, used to hook me up with moss through singapore, can see some of my pictures when I was in my prime growing mosses

http://www.aquarminy.yoyo.pl/ang/flora.html my arch rival, just kidding, this guy is awesome


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## chad320

Its capped and grown on Aquasoil, Eco, and Flourite mix. I dont really remember where i got the Noto from. Maybe it was Jaggedfury. I also think I my have got some from Taiwan at some point too. Ill try to get set up to shoot all of my mosses. Those are pics from a few months ago. Ive got a bunch that are ready to shoot, I just need to take the time to do it and ive been real busy lately.


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## DennisSingh

Moss from start to finish (PROGRESSION)


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## DennisSingh




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## DennisSingh




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## DennisSingh




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## DennisSingh




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## DennisSingh




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## DennisSingh




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## DennisSingh




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## DennisSingh




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## DennisSingh




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## DennisSingh

And the end result:









Thanks for viewing, no seriously, seriously


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## DennisSingh

Still working on my article.

@Chad look forward to it very much


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## MichaelMcG

very cool! lots of pics roud:


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## acitydweller

so i take it you've had some experience with moss


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## meowschwitz

Does anyone have experience with Plagiomnium species from eBay?


----------



## youjettisonme

I admittedly haven't read most of this thread, but is someone really claiming that mini pellia doesn't stick to wood? I can't think of a more false statement that that. 

This is my moss tank. I have used no glue, no string. That's almost all mini pellia with a little bit of fissidens.


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## HybridHerp

love this thread
I've been wondering though, if you took a piece of wood and covered it with moss mainly towards the bottom the moss should creep up the wood towards the light right? or would one have to cover the entire area they want to grow moss on with at least a few strands?
great tanks though, real inspiring


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## MichaelMcG

glad this thread is re-opened!

MOSS


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## shrimpNewbie

If you are worried about fish and a moss wall use magnets to keep the back netting firmly on the wall and then zip tie the edges of the netting together, I would start with a lot of moss though


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## acitydweller

HybridHerp said:


> love this thread
> I've been wondering though, if you took a piece of wood and covered it with moss mainly towards the bottom the moss should creep up the wood towards the light right? or would one have to cover the entire area they want to grow moss on with at least a few strands?
> great tanks though, real inspiring


From experience, it all depends on the type of moss you were using as it dictates what direction they would grow and potentiall spread.

What i normally do is lay thin strands across driftwood, (not on the bottom as there is not enough light to sustain it) and tie down with fishing line. Java , taiwan, xmas moss tend to flare horizontally so it will spread further attaching itself across the wood. I dont have flame, willow or any other more exotic mosses to relate to but basic java moss will look beautiful nonetheless. Once you let moss grow naturally, you'll realize how much it can be over simply leaving it free floating in a tank....

I have been racking my brain trying to figure out how to make use of vertical space in my shrimp tanks as they largely hang out on the bottom. Looking to contruct a multi-tiered jungle gym of sorts using branches with portions of moss in hopes of making a more natural scene for shrimp to live in. Just having a problem sourcing wood that would fit into the tank. Its probably time to bring out the jig saw and crazy glue


----------



## HybridHerp

thanks for the advice
btw, your idea sounds awesome, good luck getting it done man!


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## beedee

great thread, full of great moss and great ideas!!!


----------



## DennisSingh

This is the last thing I give, the article, no time for more pictures, photobucket account will go down tomorrow or in a couple days, so this is the last of it. Half assed article with summaries here and there hopefully you guys can pick up outta it.



ALGAE
Natural attacks – reduce lighting, shrimps, snails-ramshorns, nerites, ottos, algae eaters
Chemical – excel
Lights out

Retie….only way I successfully eradicate entire algae is growing emmersed

Green tips
walls
progressions
scientific names
rhizoids

Java Moss - Taxiphyllum barbieri
Taiwan Moss - Taxiphyllum alternans
Flame Moss – Taxiphyllum sp.
Spiky Moss – Taxiphyllum sp.
Weeping Moss - Vesicularia ferriei if it doesn’t weep early change up your conditions, otherwise it’ll grow out like irregular Christmas moss.
Erect Moss - Vesicularia reticulata
Willow Moss - Fontinalis antipyretica
Xmas moss - Vesicularia montagnei

Cool, clean, flowing water. No co2 necessary. 2 watts and up is sufficient for great growth no shade. photoperiod


Great starter moss – taxiphyllum sp
Weeping Moss-one layer weep
Adaptation
Capsule
Excel – is a great way of keeping algae off moss if not in optimal conditions

Taxiphyllum sp
Vesicularia sp

Identification of aquarium mosses is, surprisingly, not as straightforward as most people believe. They can reproduce themselves sexually by means of capsules. In Singapore, Java mosses do not appear to produce capsules. Why? - or do they? Illustrated.


Pearling-false pearling

Trimming/pulling

Aquatic mosses are great additions to a tank. They provide a natural look and if grown well, just plain beautiful. You can tie them to driftwood and rock or just about anything, create a moss wall, make a moss carpet, or just keep them free floating for fry(It will still grow well but might not be the desired look) and such. Mosses evolved from algae. 

Adaptation and oxygen is the key to success. Make sure your tanks’ bio is established. Keep your conditions constant. Mosses like clean water, I recommend crystal clear water where your bio is already established. Not chemically treated clear water. Bioload is not important, I have about 20 neons, about 25 corydoras, and a few shrimp at one point, definitely overkill, all in a 17 gallon. Mostly just keep your water clean and stable and you should have success in growing moss.

Along with clean water comes cool water. 79 degrees and under are ideal temperatures for growing moss. I keep mine at room temperature not worrying about my fish as they are always hardy fish and can survive in lower temperatures. My cousin actually uses a heater and has his tank at 79 degrees with nice growth from his mosses. His weeping moss weeps at this temperature. 

Flow, well oxygen, is also very important in growing mosses. Willow moss is the most neediest when it comes to flow. Like Professor Benito Tan stated we should be injecting oxygen. Mosses need oxygen to grow. I actually killed some of my weeping moss by overdosing co2. Co2 injection is not necessary for mosses to thrive, in fact I see no difference at all, except maybe with fissidens sp, not one bit of difference with co2 and non co2, but that may be the fact that cooler water has more co2 retained supposedly. I do keep my flow outlet higher than normal so water splashes into the tank. 

As far as lighting goes, I would suggest 2 watts per gallon to start and then as you grow in experience you can move up or down from there. Never keep your moss shaded though, it’ll grow stringy-like and not to its full potential. Its not about how much light you have rather than spacing, this could probably go with all plants. Moss will grow more compact and thicker the closer it gets to the surface. 

I’ve heard that some mosses can pearl. I have witnessed this with weeping moss, spiky moss, and erect moss so far. Mosses don’t disperse seeds but rather sex by capsules. Its rare for me to see capsules but I have seen them before. There are periods in the moss life cycle when they do have a double set of paired chromosomes, but this happens only during the sporophyte stage. I got this from wikipedia(sporophyte sentence) not sure what it means though, haha. But here is a picture of capsules and sporophytes. Rhizoids are roots of the moss which will grow underneath the fronds to attach to wood, rock, etc.

New theory-moss will adapt, it will adapt to your conditions, and use what it needs to survive.

When tying your moss use only one layer of moss and tie it. Meaning take it a frond at a time. The more moss you tie, the less space the frond has, less light the frond has. In ideal conditions the moss will still grow, but you won’t have the full effect of maturity of each frond. Your moss might look more lush and minature. I tied weeping moss lush and it doesn’t weep as much as it would if I had only tied one layer. Refer to Moss Progression section to witness this.

Trimming supposedly would make the moss come back fuller and thicker. I have never done this. Why, its just too hard to trim and not lose the moss in your aquarium by the flow of your tank. Rather, I pull moss, I grab each individual frond and pull it off. Whenever I do this its usually time to redo the whole wood piece, so I pull of each frond and the brown layer left at the bottom I remove as well, then I spray the wood piece down with a hose and retie all the moss that I’ve pulled off. The bottom brown layer would regrow but slowly. For walls I don’t redo the whole wall, just pull and let the bottom layer regrow. Its too much of a hassle for me to take the whole wall out, untie the zip ties and so and so on. Moss has an amazing recovery ability, I’ve had brown moss that recovered by sending out green fronds outta the browned out stuff. This may take a long time though depending on your conditions.

Too much debris on your moss? Just take out the piece its attached to and wait for your aquarium debris to clear up and then just place it back into the tank.


----------



## JoeD323

IDK if you guys are familiar with Amano's method of aquascaping with some types of mosses, but what he does is chop is finely up into what basically looks like a paste and smears that all over the rocks and/or wood of the scape, then waits a week or two before flooding the aquarium. Its pretty much the same technique many terrestrial gardeners use one flower pots and things like that. 

I just purchased some fissidens fontanus and plan to try this out on some dark lava rock before setting up my low-light high-tech tank this month. The tank will be all but exclusively crypts (wendtii variants, lutea, undulata, parva, spiralis and balansae) with a few anubias petite, some java fern and of course the fiss. The moss should arrive this week and I'll keep everyone posted.


Joe


----------



## meowschwitz

> Weeping Moss - Vesicularia ferriei if it doesn’t weep early change up your conditions, otherwise it’ll grow out like irregular Christmas moss.


 Can you explain this?


----------



## DrEd

JoeD323 said:


> IDK if you guys are familiar with Amano's method of aquascaping with some types of mosses, but what he does is chop is finely up into what basically looks like a paste and smears that all over the rocks and/or wood of the scape, then waits a week or two before flooding the aquarium. Its pretty much the same technique many terrestrial gardeners use one flower pots and things like that.
> 
> I just purchased some fissidens fontanus and plan to try this out on some dark lava rock before setting up my low-light high-tech tank this month. The tank will be all but exclusively crypts (wendtii variants, lutea, undulata, parva, spiralis and balansae) with a few anubias petite, some java fern and of course the fiss. The moss should arrive this week and I'll keep everyone posted.
> 
> 
> Joe


That's very interesting. I'll definitely give it a try.


----------



## sayurasem

Wow amazing thread! I love mosses, especially round pellia/ subwassertang! Here's some of mine

*November 16, 2011*









*
June 4, 2012*









My new acquired subwassertang from scape meeting 

















Last but not least, Flame Moss!

















They look so pretty with the moss erecting upward and twisting.

Question, is it okay to sandwhich the flame moss between the ceramic plate and ss mesh? will it grow upwards through the mesh holes?
If you see the white ceramic plate, I only tied thread across the "roots" of the flame moss to the ceramic plate.

any better idea how to attach flame moss to this ceramic plates?


----------



## sugarbyte

I purchased some Fissidens Fontanus pads off ebay from Aquatic Magic. When I received them they were in great shape, nice and green. Now (about 1 + month later) the base of the stems are a darker green with light green tips. All my other plants (low and high light) are doing amazingly.

I've done countless hours of research on what could be causing this, does anyone know why this happens (and how to fix it)? 

There is so much contradicting information out there. Maybe some of you have had some first-hand experience with this problem?

I apologize if my question is vague. If you would like my tank specs I'd be happy to share them.


----------



## jkan0228

Lol it's not a problem, the light green tips are new growth! It's a good thing in case you don't get it


----------



## sugarbyte

jkan0228 said:


> Lol it's not a problem, the light green tips are new growth! It's a good thing in case you don't get it


:hihi: well yes, new growth is always good. I'm sorry if my question is a bit silly. I'm simply wondering how I can achieve consistent lush green-ness throughout the fronds ( I see pictures of fissidens like this and I am so envious lol). Instead, my fissidens now has darker fronds with brighter tips. It wasn't like that when I received it so I'm wondering what I'm doing wrong :c


:frown: Roughly what mine looks like:









What I wish it looked like:


----------



## sketch804

So not sure if this was answered after reading the whole post a few times, but what is the EZest way to get rid of algae on Fiss.? since excel and I think H2O2 can melt this plant, how can I get rid of algae without having to spend a while manually removing all of it..

Great thread here! wish I still had lots of moss, all I have is a clump of Java that takes up half of a 10 gal, and one inch squared of I think, Twain moss. makes me wanna find some more moss again! Oh and I have mini Fiss and regular form but both are small..


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## Rainer

Couple of questions:

Can notocyphus do well in low tech, 7.6 pH, 8.3 dGH water? 

Are there any species to avoid under those conditions?

Also:


StrungOut said:


> Vesicularia reticulata seems gone from the hobby, I have tried so hard in trades and such to obtain it with no avail. I've seen plenty of fakes though. The true stuff likes to branch out.
> 
> short growth on left side is partly emmersed so filled even higher looks like that, just the shorter more thicker compact fronds you see on the left side of the major focus driftwood.


Any updates on this?


----------



## DennisSingh

Rainer said:


> Couple of questions:
> 
> Can notocyphus do well in low tech, 7.6 pH, 8.3 dGH water?
> 
> Are there any species to avoid under those conditions?
> 
> Any updates on this?


I have no experience with notocyphus, but almost for sure it will. All aquatic species should do well in low tech specs. My tap water is hard just like yours 7.8 ph and around 9 gh and all grew well in past. Currently I'm trying pure ro with slight mineralizer, mainly for shrimps.

Erect moss is gone from the hobby it seems, I've been searching and continually been getting different moss that may grow upright but not the true species as it doesn't branch out. I've given up the search.

I may be able to grow prime mosses, but I ain't no expert on explaining it. Hope these shots weren't in the post already.


----------



## Rainer

That's really a shame about the erect moss - it was beautiful.



StrungOut said:


> All aquatic species should do well in low tech specs. My tap water is hard just like yours 7.8 ph and around 9 gh and all grew well in past.


That's a little discouraging after my rose moss failed to thrive, even to attach well to lava rock. I'd hoped it was parameter-based.


----------



## Rainer

What are the species names of mini fissidens? The one I have is brownish - grows well but isn't that attractive - and I've seen pics of much greener mini. 

Are there any moss species which don't do well with the blend-n-spray technique? I'm hoping to employ it on cinder gravel over the PFS in the tank in my journal (see sig) in areas too restricted for SS squares.


----------



## DennisSingh

Rainer said:


> What are the species names of mini fissidens? The one I have is brownish - grows well but isn't that attractive - and I've seen pics of much greener mini.
> 
> Are there any moss species which don't do well with the blend-n-spray technique? I'm hoping to employ it on cinder gravel over the PFS in the tank in my journal (see sig) in areas too restricted for SS squares.


I don't know the species name of mini fissidens? Maybe fontanus?

What is this blend n spray technique? Where you chop up the moss and dry start it? I haven't done this method before.


----------



## jkan0228

Fissidens fontanus is not mini fissidens by far, it's the regular fissidens. 

Blend-n-spray(not sure who invented this term but it's not accurate for what the method is if I'm correct on my part) is when you chop the moss and place it over rocks, substrate or whatever and let it attach via DSM. After a few weeks the moss will have rooted and you can fill the tank.


----------



## Rainer

The species of mini fissidens I've had for almost a year is brown and not very attractive. Elsewhere I've seen pics of medium-dark green mini which looks much better. That's what I'd like to try as a carpet for the 5g tank in my journal.

I haven't done the research yet but recall reading of people spraying on blenderized moss using the DSM. We do have a vivarium section - could it apply only there or have I misremembered?


----------



## meowschwitz

The most commonly spread mini fissidens is probably fissidens nobilis.

I've applied the chopping method to several mosses and liverworts for the dry start of my 12G tank. You can see the results in my thread. It works like a charm.


----------



## meowschwitz

StrungOut said:


>


Is this weeping moss? How do you get it to actually weep and look so full and compact?


----------



## DennisSingh

I believe its good lighting, no shade, and surface agitation. My weeping moss usually weeps right away giving the desired look. For others its a certain stage of the moss where it begins to weep.


----------



## CatSoup

I know this is an older thread, but I'm bumping it for you moss pros. What type should I use for this archway of twigs? I want it to look bushy. Thanks! http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=193010


----------



## DennisSingh

*Moss Passion: The resurrection*

The resurrection begins...

I’m starting this prematurely without knowing the results just a confidence in that it’d be golden so I have to be successful or want to be successful. If this goes algae wrong or so, Imma feel shot down, but at least I tried

To be continued...

Coming up
Starting a moss tank
New tank progression


















sorry missed ya catsoup, good luck with that


----------



## DennisSingh

words to come....










































































































ps people, read the rules, no drunk or under the influence posting


----------



## DennisSingh

Success means
Not only thick green, fast growing moss, but prime moss, holy grail moss, moss that is not only thick and growing fast but as well each frond to their full potential to reveal their most awesome structure. People can grow moss yes, but can they grow them into their true beauty. Just check out aquamoss.net, or look around for Loh’s erect moss and xmas and chiller pictures, aquatank pictures, vasteq. This is of course impossible with the lighting dispersement that I have now, ie’ corners, sides… but to be continued…..


----------



## Mizuhuman

that looks awesome! Can't wait to see it grow

I like moss. its a shame I can't make them thrive like yours. I can't even grow java moss properly. lol


----------



## Covanellis

StrungOut said:


> Erect moss is gone from the hobby it seems, I've been searching and continually been getting different moss that may grow upright but not the true species as it doesn't branch out. I've given up the search.


You can buy erect moss here (read the description, it's included + Latin name for reference).
Go to the 'Keen Shrimp' store on Ebay - I can't post the link.


----------



## AquaAurora

StrungOut said:


>


Where did you get that tank (brand?)?! Glass or acrylic?


----------



## Aqua nut

I started growing a bunch of moos in the last 6 months.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=17417&pictureid=68361
This just my flame moss.
Subwasertang http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=17417&pictureid=68377
Christmas Moss http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=17417&pictureid=68682
I also have Christmas, Willow and I just scored a nice piece of Phoenix and Rose moss.
I also have some Subwassertang..I don't know if you consider that a moss, but it's cool stuff.
-Fred


----------



## DennisSingh

Mizuhuman said:


> that looks awesome! Can't wait to see it grow
> 
> I like moss. its a shame I can't make them thrive like yours. I can't even grow java moss properly. lol


haha thanks, gotta start sometime somewhere...



> You can buy erect moss here (read the description, it's included + Latin name for reference).
> Go to the 'Keen Shrimp' store on Ebay - I can't post the link.


If it from Spain, I bought the moss, just haven't paid yet



> Where did you get that tank (brand?)?! Glass or acrylic?


I b ought it custom, starphire glass, i think its sea clear or tru vu



> I started growing a bunch of moos in the last 6 months.
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/pi...ictureid=68361
> This just my flame moss.
> Subwasertang http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/pi...ictureid=68377
> Christmas Moss http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/pi...ictureid=68682
> I also have Christmas, Willow and I just scored a nice piece of Phoenix and Rose moss.
> I also have some Subwassertang..I don't know if you consider that a moss, but it's cool stuff.
> -Fred


Good stuff, naw I don't consider Subwassertang a moss...


----------



## Raith

AHHHHH, this thread is awesome.

/subscribes.


----------



## DennisSingh

> AHHHHH, this thread is awesome.
> 
> /subscribes.


Thanks



*Starting a moss tank*
When starting a low tech moss tank you want to look at mostly lighting and filtration.

My major concern when I started this tank is the lighting, is it gonna be too high? The tanks only 9.5 inches tall, 10,000k bulbs fluorescent t8s, so…Well pretty much this is my only concern. I’ve grown syn. With this lighting so imma keep the photoperiod at 4 hrs a day. Its really the height of the tank that makes the intensity so sharp. Take into consideration your lighting when your starting your tank. The light should be in the moderate range. Moss should not be shaded if you want prime growth but not too high to attract algae. Generally 2watt per gallon you but height will determine whether it will be accurate. I go by t8 t12s all the time with moss, the lower the better for me. Inhibiting algae is my main concern cause once you get it its very hard tø eradicate without killing your moss yourself. A lot of people have gotten good though with this with h2o2 and such dip spot treat and so on. I repeat, lower the light the better as long as the moss is not shaded.

Filtration. Never a concern with this tank, or any other moss tank I’ve created. I always overfiltrate. The cleaner the water with just about any tank you’ve seen, the nicer and better growth correlates. Carbon/Purigen is definitely good in the initial setup depending on substrate and ammonia…Lots of flow will produce a lot of o2 into your tank which is really good for moss. 

Substrate
I’ve seen divine moss grown on ADA soils, the problem with these soils is overtime they’ll deteriorate. I for one am found of eco-complete, buffer 7, and stays rock solid, doesn’t leech into the water if anything I believe. 

Start out with good moss. You get moss with a whiff of algae and likely that algae will grow. Start out with nice green moss just like plants, the nicer and stronger specimen you get, the better the adaptation and growth rate will be..

Attaching the moss
The better you attach the moss, the better the adapativity. And probable possible attachment. You can use super glue, companies started making their own moss glue (ie seachem), fishing line, net, cotton line anyways possible, nudge in cracks….I use fishing line and I wrap pretty darn good. There is no such thing as overtying, well not literally, you can exaggerate it.

Just a short summary that could be more developed with questions I'll try and answer my best if I am able to...


----------



## fablau

Anyone is successfully growing Java moss with EI?


----------



## fablau

Hey guys, to whoever of you that know how to grow moss well: do you also inject Co2? To what levels? 20-30 or more ppms?

My Java moss stopped growing since I increased Co2 and moved in EI fertilization. My Co2 is pretty high, over 40ppm. How would you explain that? All other plants are doing great. Moss is the only one giving me trouble.

Thanks!

Fab.


----------



## DennisSingh

fablau said:


> Anyone is successfully growing Java moss with EI?
> 
> Hey guys, to whoever of you that know how to grow moss well: do you also inject Co2? To what levels? 20-30 or more ppms?
> 
> My Java moss stopped growing since I increased Co2 and moved in EI fertilization. My Co2 is pretty high, over 40ppm. How would you explain that? All other plants are doing great. Moss is the only one giving me trouble.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Fab.


Thank you for your questions and input. I'm sure others have tried ei with java moss, perhaps Mr. Ei himself...I personally don't use fertilizers for my moss, never seen a deficiency if there is such thing for moss and grows nice thick green and beautiful. Refer to this thread for your co2 question. Not much information but a theory of mine that high co2 just no good for moss.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=670841&highlight=

I think like hedge_fund and herbs use co2 with their mosses with great results just not sure how high the ppm is..

Bump: Question Fab...Is your moss turning brown or yellow or mixture of two to white? White would be the sign or too much co2


----------



## bsantucci

Never saw this thread, some great pics though!

Here's a blob of fisidens I have on a branch with my bumble bee goby making an appearance.

I also have a massive bunch of fisidens covering a coconut cave I made for my apistos. I'll post a pic of that later when I'm home.

This is the only moss I can grow in my high light, co2 injected tank. Everything else ends up with gray fuzz on it.


----------



## DennisSingh

bsantucci said:


> Never saw this thread, some great pics though!
> 
> Here's a blob of fisidens I have on a branch with my bumble bee goby making an appearance.
> 
> I also have a massive bunch of fisidens covering a coconut cave I made for my apistos. I'll post a pic of that later when I'm home.
> 
> This is the only moss I can grow in my high light, co2 injected tank. Everything else ends up with gray fuzz on it.


Nice, thanks for sharing, love it!

Yeah fissidens is one of the mosses that does well with high co2, there are others out there as well.


----------



## DennisSingh

fablau said:


> Hey guys, to whoever of you that know how to grow moss well: do you also inject Co2? To what levels? 20-30 or more ppms?
> 
> My Java moss stopped growing since I increased Co2 and moved in EI fertilization. My Co2 is pretty high, over 40ppm. How would you explain that? All other plants are doing great. Moss is the only one giving me trouble.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Fab.


Hey Fabulous..

I stole this information off another site, but looks like a good read for ya, I'll get around to reading it myself sometime, someday, some week or so..



> Sorry, the paper for mosses is this one:
> 5) MABERLY, S. C. Photosynthesis by Fontinalis antipyretica. I. Interaction between Photon Irradiance, Concentration of Carbon Dioxide and Temperature. New Phytologist. 1985, vol. 100, issue 2, s. 127-140. DOI: 10.1111/j.1469-8137.1985.tb02765.x. Available from: http://doi.wiley.com/10.1111/j.1469-8137.1985.tb02765.x
> 
> → Fontinalis antipyretica (known as "Willow moss"):
> 
> "In March and August the highest concentration of CO2 (1.0 mM = 44 ppm) appeared to be inhibitory; this type of phenomenon has been reported before for aquatic macrophytes (e.g. for Elodea densa) at similar concentrations." (see p. 133)
> 
> The light saturation point for this moss at ~20°C = 81 µmol PAR at 0.2 mM CO2 (9 ppm), 94 µmol PAR at 0.5 mM CO2 (22 ppm), and 85 µmol PAR at 1.0 mM CO2 (44 ppm). So it's of no use to supply more then 100 µmol PAR to this kind of moss.
> 
> Also note the photosynthesis (growth) rates for this moss at ~20°C:
> - at 0.1 mM CO2 (4 ppm) it was 1187 µmol O2 g.DW.h
> - at 0.2 mM CO2 (9 ppm) it was 1685 µmol O2 g.DW.h
> - at 1.0 mM CO2 (44 ppm) it was 1527 µmol O2 g.DW.h.
> What does it mean? That if we take the highest rate of photosynthesis (1685 µmol O2) as 100%, then:
> - at 4 ppm CO2 the photosynthesis rate was at 70% of its maximum
> - at 9 ppm CO2 the photosynthesis rate was at 86% of its maximum
> - at 22 ppm CO2 the photosynthesis rate was at its maximum (100%) = saturation point
> - at 44 ppm CO2 the photosynthesis rate decreased to 90% of its maximum.
> The growth difference between 20 ppm and 40 ppm is not so big (only 10%), but still it means that it's of no use to supply more CO2 then ~20 ppm to this moss at this temperature. Also, if we supply just 9 ppm to this moss, its photosynthesis (growth) rate will be at about 90% of its maximum! Do you think you'll notice any growth difference between 9 ppm (86%) vs. 40 ppm (90%)?
> __________________


am i right now? u


----------



## fablau

StrungOut said:


> Thank you for your questions and input. I'm sure others have tried ei with java moss, perhaps Mr. Ei himself...I personally don't use fertilizers for my moss, never seen a deficiency if there is such thing for moss and grows nice thick green and beautiful. Refer to this thread for your co2 question. Not much information but a theory of mine that high co2 just no good for moss.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=670841&highlight=
> 
> 
> 
> I think like hedge_fund and herbs use co2 with their mosses with great results just not sure how high the ppm is..
> 
> Bump: Question Fab...Is your moss turning brown or yellow or mixture of two to white? White would be the sign or too much co2



Great suggested thread, thank you so much! I have just posted there as well.

Ok, my moss gets fuzzy and BBA algae, and it is stuck since January 2013, therefore for almost one year. The only changes I made to my tank since that time are: fertilization (moved from Seachem low fertilization schedule, to EI) and cranked up Co2 a big deal (from around 20-30ppm of co2 to over 40ppm, probably 50ppm.)

Now I am trying to add more O2 via extra aeration at night (via extra circulation pump pointing a little toward the surface to increase surface agitation and degas faster). Despite I have a wet/dry filter, my sumo is completely sealed, therefore not much different by a canister. Maybe My tank lack O2, and that could help moss? It has been just 4 days since I started night aeration, and I already see better growth in my Anubias. (That are the only ones getting some BBA besides the moss). But I need to wait at least another week to notice any real difference.

All other plants grow great, no algae whatsoever, and look terrific.

I will post results In a week or so. If no improvements for the moss, I could try to replace it with fissidens. Thanks!


----------



## fablau

StrungOut said:


> Nice, thanks for sharing, love it!
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah fissidens is one of the mosses that does well with high co2, there are others out there as well.



I'd be curious to know what other Mosses would grow well in high Co2... Suggestions are very welcome! Thanks


----------



## fablau

StrungOut said:


> Hey Fabulous..
> 
> I stole this information off another site, but looks like a good read for ya, I'll get around to reading it myself sometime, someday, some week or so..
> 
> 
> 
> am i right now? u



Ah ah  Thank you, I am actually the one requesting that information on that thread (I am "Fabrizio" on that forum). 

Yes, there are studies showing that too high Co2 can prevent moss to grow well, but they don't say that it stop growing altogether, which is instead my case... But you never know the testing environment how different can be from my own setup, and my moss could really just stop growing for too much co2... That could be. If many other people have the same experience, that could really be the case.


----------



## Underwater

Sorry for changing the topic-but what are the classic moss taxonomy books/papers? It is nice to compare phenotypes with other hobbyists, however I'm looking for more scientific reports with some microscope images or drawings. I haven't come up with much beside the Singapore moss paper which doesn't have many species included.

This could also be a helpful answer for others wanting to verify their moss's identity.


----------



## DennisSingh

Underwater said:


> Sorry for changing the topic-but what are the classic moss taxonomy books/papers? It is nice to compare phenotypes with other hobbyists, however I'm looking for more scientific reports with some microscope images or drawings. I haven't come up with much beside the Singapore moss paper which doesn't have many species included.
> 
> This could also be a helpful answer for others wanting to verify their moss's identity.


Theres a book "a guide to the MOSSES of Singapore" check this one out, very informative, useful, microscopic pics and so on...All moss outta singapore only. About 2,000 of the 18,000 bryophytes occur in southeast asia..

Bump:


fablau said:


> I'd be curious to know what other Mosses would grow well in high Co2... Suggestions are very welcome! Thanks


I do not know, a few guesses, queen moss, liverworts. I know most mosses are semi-aquatic, and fissidens being one of the genus' that are fully aquatic, which would explain more why co2 good for..


----------



## Underwater

StrungOut said:


> Theres a book "a guide to the MOSSES of Singapore" check this one out, very informative, useful, microscopic pics and so on...All moss outta singapore only. About 2,000 of the 18,000 bryophytes occur in southeast asia.


Thanks StrungOut, I picked this one up. 

Have there not been any more recent publications? It seems likely there have been new introductions to the hobby since 2008?


----------



## DennisSingh

Underwater said:


> Thanks StrungOut, I picked this one up.
> 
> Have there not been any more recent publications? It seems likely there have been new introductions to the hobby since 2008?


All international. Ur better asking in another forum with a good moss member


----------



## Underwater

StrungOut said:


> All international. Ur better asking in another forum with a good moss member


I'm surprised there are no moss people here now, there used to be some. I'll see what I can find in other forums then.


----------



## DennisSingh

*1st failure after saying i have to succeed*



StrungOut said:


> words to come....



So worrying about the lighting, I didn't take into consideration that my malaya soil turned into powder. Using the powder was a big mistake, and debris would get all over my moss. Key point start off with good green algae free moss. Your success is higher, just like stem plants. Your more likely to have success with a well rooted strong colorful stem than the lather. Well I did start off with some healthy green moss as well as browning moss but the powder is/was the big problem. The debris will actually kill the moss. It will cover the moss from the light as well the moss cannot suck up the nutrients fast enough..So this was my first failure.

pumping o2 into the tank









tank shot
















mini xmas








mini weeping










And then here to follow, what happened


----------



## DennisSingh

So I thought no big deal I can just fluff the moss debris off with my hand. The problem was the substrate kept getting stirred up by the fish especially the corydoras would freak out cause the set up was new I'd be fiddling. I had to tear down this and restart with eco complete. Little of the malaya was left in but ineffective at this point.


----------



## DennisSingh

> So I thought no big deal I can just fluff the moss debris off with my hand. The problem was the substrate kept getting stirred up by the fish especially the corydoras would freak out cause the set up was new I'd be fiddling. I had to tear down this and restart with eco complete. Little of the malaya was left in but ineffective at this point.


whoops, thats not eco-complete, this is...


----------



## DennisSingh

So lots of moss covered with debris would die off, or get string algae. So your off better starting off with good clean moss.

This is last update of my tank before I tore it down. Enough of these progressions, lets get to in time possibly my last moss tank.

pictures not in any particular order


































































































































































































Bump: And the rest of them


----------



## demonr6

Moss grows pretty well in my tank. This is current but I trim about half of this off every couple of months and sell it. I'm due for another trim as you can see. I have Willow Moss that I collected from one of the springs around me that I had to massively scale back on the other side of the tank because it too was taking over and I prefer the side you see to be all moss. You can see the unintentional red cherry farm all up in it. I posted for help to ID it but have not had anyone reply yet. I had this in a 6 gallon that I built about five years ago then moved it over last year after I tore it down and it went crazy in the 55. 

No ferts, filtered tap water that I get from our water softener at a tap right after the carbon filter and a Finnex Ray LED that runs on an 8 on/4 off/4 on/8 off cycle.


----------



## DennisSingh

demonr6 said:


> Moss grows pretty well in my tank. This is current but I trim about half of this off every couple of months and sell it. I'm due for another trim as you can see. I have Willow Moss that I collected from one of the springs around me that I had to massively scale back on the other side of the tank because it too was taking over and I prefer the side you see to be all moss. You can see the unintentional red cherry farm all up in it. I posted for help to ID it but have not had anyone reply yet. I had this in a 6 gallon that I built about five years ago then moved it over last year after I tore it down and it went crazy in the 55.
> 
> No ferts, filtered tap water that I get from our water softener at a tap right after the carbon filter and a Finnex Ray LED that runs on an 8 on/4 off/4 on/8 off cycle.


You've got taiwan moss. Care to share size of your tank, filtration (exact type), and lighting exact specifics? I'd like to know and analyze. You've got massive growth very pretty.


----------



## demonr6

Thanks. It's a 55g running two SunSun HW302 knock offs. I tear them down every two or three months depending on how I see the tank coming along. Usually it is two months though. The media is bio-ceramic, a combination of dish scrubbers and foam filter pads, and a carbon filter. 

The current lighting is a single Finnex Ray 48" DS Dual LED's at 7k and they have been the primary now for the last two months. Prior to that I was running an off the shelf quad T5 shop light you can buy at any Lowe's or Depot with 6500k grow bulbs I would replace every six months. 

Water was as I mentioned in the OP, tap placed after the carbon filter on my softener. Top offs are using the softened water about a gallon a week. Every other month I drain 15 gallons and replace it with the filtered water. No ferts except for a dropper of Excel every couple of weeks. 

That giant blob of moss will get trimmed down to next to nothing and in a few months I am right back to what you see there. The only problem I have in this tank to be honest is a breakout of Cladophora algae that is contained to a small area in the upper right where the nana petite is growing and that is fueled by the lighting. I am keeping it in check but cannot rid myself of it. I cannot bomb the tank either because besides the fish I have a gazillon red cherry shrimp in there so that is not an option. I heard overdosing with Excel might help but don't want to harm anything in the tank.


----------



## DennisSingh

demonr6 said:


> Thanks. It's a 55g running two SunSun HW302 knock offs. I tear them down every two or three months depending on how I see the tank coming along. Usually it is two months though. The media is bio-ceramic, a combination of dish scrubbers and foam filter pads, and a carbon filter.
> 
> The current lighting is a single Finnex Ray 48" DS Dual LED's at 7k and they have been the primary now for the last two months. Prior to that I was running an off the shelf quad T5 shop light you can buy at any Lowe's or Depot with 6500k grow bulbs I would replace every six months.
> 
> Water was as I mentioned in the OP, tap placed after the carbon filter on my softener. Top offs are using the softened water about a gallon a week. Every other month I drain 15 gallons and replace it with the filtered water. No ferts except for a dropper of Excel every couple of weeks.
> 
> That giant blob of moss will get trimmed down to next to nothing and in a few months I am right back to what you see there. The only problem I have in this tank to be honest is a breakout of Cladophora algae that is contained to a small area in the upper right where the nana petite is growing and that is fueled by the lighting. I am keeping it in check but cannot rid myself of it. I cannot bomb the tank either because besides the fish I have a gazillon red cherry shrimp in there so that is not an option. I heard overdosing with Excel might help but don't want to harm anything in the tank.


this is very good, I'm promoting this one. Double filters, super clean water through media. O2 o2 o2...People may not hear it, but I'm seeing a good trend of moss growers with over filtration. You don't have to like the messenger, but his work ethic is tight, his passions nice, and grows good crop.

Bump: So with moss, two main focuses in setting up a tank:

Lighting and overfiltration

random
Queen moss, i cannot get this one to grow and seems to only like ro water. We'll see, I have transferred this moss.


----------



## demonr6

If anyone in the moss thread ever needs or wants to buy some of the moss I have please contact me via PM and I would be happy to sell you some. I have a 20L I broke down recently that I am going to set up as one giant moss wall as an experiment. If it works out that will end up being a moss farm.

Strung I forgot to mention there is a tank heater and I keep the water around 76F. Ambient rules the day though so it fluctuates and I do not go out of my way to keep it exactly at X temperature.


----------



## MissOddi

I just read this whole thread. Great pics, everyone! I'm thinking of doing a 5-gal moss tank, so don't be surprised if I start peppering y'all with questions soon!


----------



## DennisSingh

MissOddi said:


> I just read this whole thread. Great pics, everyone! I'm thinking of doing a 5-gal moss tank, so don't be surprised if I start peppering y'all with questions soon!


Please do flutter with q's and ask away:icon_twis


----------



## MissOddi

When I get a new job, I'm getting a new tank! I have a job interview next week, so let's put the cart before the horse and start with the questions.

First one -- does moss really care about the substrate? Could I have a moss carpet with plain gravel, or would it be worth it to use eco-complete or a soil substrate?


----------



## DennisSingh

I would go the eco-complete or soil substrate way.

Avoid any gravels or sand that may contain silicates. If they do not contain them, then you're good. The silicates will create diatom a.

congrats on your new job. 

What size tank were you getting or have? What type mosses were you interested in also?


----------



## MissOddi

I'm looking at getting the Fluval Spec V. I don't have the job yet, but I do have my Amazon shopping cart ready lol!

Ideally, I want to build a moss wall on the black short side of the tank and a sort of rolling hills effect with a moss carpet on the substrate. If I can find a nice piece of driftwood, I think I will try my hand at a moss tree as well. 

The tank will go in my office, aka the fairy room, and I want the tank to feel like a window into the fairy realm.

As for mosses, I've always loved Xmas, weeping, and peacock mosses. I want a fairly low-tech tank, so I have to look into which ones will work best.

I also have some moss that I harvested from my backyard, but I have no clue what it is. All I know is I tossed it in a water-filled vase two weeks ago and it has doubled in size.


----------



## demonr6

My two cents on dirt being I had a full dirt tank running for a couple of years.. even with the sand cap the water will have a tannic color i.e. tea so your lovely green moss will look like it's in light brown water. Not so sexy imho. Eco-complete is what I plant on doing for the rebuild of my 20L with the end to end moss wall.


----------



## JoseGraciani

I'm new to the shrimp tank scene and shrimps love moss! If someone would send me a care package of sample mosses and stuff, I would love to publicize the seller and promote their moss as well as use it in my lovely tanks! I love Java moss but it's the only miss I've ever tried! I need more moss!


----------



## DennisSingh

JoseGraciani said:


> I'm new to the shrimp tank scene and shrimps love moss! If someone would send me a care package of sample mosses and stuff, I would love to publicize the seller and promote their moss as well as use it in my lovely tanks! I love Java moss but it's the only miss I've ever tried! I need more moss!


Try Han


----------



## JoseGraciani

Han?


----------



## DennisSingh

JoseGraciani said:


> Han?


Yeah he's a banned member who has a lot of goods. Search for him googley and I'm sure you'll find him. I would've loved to help you out but i hate publicity.


----------



## CluelessAquarist

StrungOut said:


> Yeah he's a banned member who has a lot of goods. Search for him googley and I'm sure you'll find him. I would've loved to help you out but i hate publicity.


Banned? I see him on here all the time, how does that work?


----------



## DennisSingh

CluelessAquarist said:


> Banned? I see him on here all the time, how does that work?


No comment, just like your screen name, I haven't a clue on this..


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## demonr6

JoseGraciani said:


> I'm new to the shrimp tank scene and shrimps love moss! If someone would send me a care package of sample mosses and stuff, I would love to publicize the seller and promote their moss as well as use it in my lovely tanks! I love Java moss but it's the only miss I've ever tried! I need more moss!


I can send you a golf ball size of Taiwan Moss which is the main in my 55. You would have to pay for shipping though. I don't normally send out samples of anything so PM me if interested.


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## DennisSingh

Differences in starting off with good moss and not good moss. 
Both are cameroon, one has string algae and has been battling and battling to grow and the other i started off with a good portion(more sexing), which went straight out into great conditions, the first not so good with debris getting over it and such finally put in good conditions still is battling algae.


















Quote Ben Tan, shortened version
Mosses belong to the Bryophytes, a group which also includes liverworts and hornworts. They are a very ancient group of land plants which first migrated and colonized bare land around 450 million years ago. They are non-vascular and disperse by spores instead of seeds.


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## DennisSingh

*back from death*

Done with my break/vacation

Here is my newest tank:
progressions now on from this tank only

From soaking driftwood-manzanita









To putting piece by piece in with tied moss

















To adding a few plants









enjoy thanks for looking...


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## Krispyplants

StrungOut said:


> Differences in starting off with good moss and not good moss.
> Both are cameroon, one has string algae and has been battling and battling to grow and the other i started off with a good portion(more sexing), which went straight out into great conditions, the first not so good with debris getting over it and such finally put in good conditions still is battling algae.
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> Quote Ben Tan, shortened version
> Mosses belong to the Bryophytes, a group which also includes liverworts and hornworts. They are a very ancient group of land plants which first migrated and colonized bare land around 450 million years ago. They are non-vascular and disperse by spores instead of seeds.


 
What is the name of this moss? I found a 3 inch string of this along with my 5 packs of golf ball fissidens f. I was stunned at how seaweed looking the leaves were so I glued it on top of my filter outlet so I can monitor it. I hope it can grow. How fast/slow do they grow?


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## DennisSingh

Krispyplants said:


> What is the name of this moss? I found a 3 inch string of this along with my 5 packs of golf ball fissidens f. I was stunned at how seaweed looking the leaves were so I glued it on top of my filter outlet so I can monitor it. I hope it can grow. How fast/slow do they grow?


Cameroon, you sure you found this one? could be something else.


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## BruceF

I am looking for a bright green moss. Which one do you think is the brightest green?


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## Krispyplants

StrungOut said:


> Cameroon, you sure you found this one? could be something else.


Pretty sure it is or something very similar. bummer half of it is gone somewhere. That SAE probably tore it off because the glue was right in the middle of the string. Now it's probably going to take even longer to grow :icon_conf If it even survives. Oh well. Co2 and high light blasting in that area.


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## DennisSingh

Krispyplants said:


> Pretty sure it is or something very similar. bummer half of it is gone somewhere. That SAE probably tore it off because the glue was right in the middle of the string. Now it's probably going to take even longer to grow :icon_conf If it even survives. Oh well. Co2 and high light blasting in that area.


I bet its some liverwort but not cameroon. They look a lot alike though. Could be, you never know..Lose the sae
 or it'll be gone


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## Krispyplants

StrungOut said:


> I bet its some liverwort but not cameroon. They look a lot alike though. Could be, you never know..Lose the sae
> or it'll be gone


I took out many already and there is 1 left. That runt will never give up. I spent 2 hours on 2 occasion and since gave up trying to net him out of my 50 gal :icon_roll I thought about hook and bloodworms


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## herns

Krispyplants said:


> Pretty sure it is or something very similar. bummer half of it is gone somewhere. That SAE probably tore it off because the glue was right in the middle of the string. Now it's probably going to take even longer to grow :icon_conf If it even survives. Oh well. Co2 and high light blasting in that area.


 
wave moss, probably.


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## DennisSingh

herns said:


> wave moss, probably.


doubt it, wave moss is more pellia looking, at least the one i had


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## limz_777

pearl moss


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## herns

limz_777 said:


> pearl moss


Just saw mine today, not wave moss. + 1 , pearl moss.


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## DennisSingh

How I grow moss, short write up, quick style like always
LIGHTING
this is probably where you'll make or break...You want your moss not to be shaded to grow perfect fronds as well not high enough to get algae. My old rule was about 2 watts per gallon, but thats outdated. Your lighting will also be based on how much plant life you have as well as moss in the tank. Pack everything the better your odds of success. Examples, a standard 55g two t8s or t12s would do you justice, 1 t5 would do you right, 1 led fixture would do good. Lighting is something you really have to balance. Like I said this will make or break the tank. If you get the balance of light right, you'll find the closer the moss is to being emmersed, the way better the growth, thickness, perfectness, uniformness....
FILTRATION
Oxygen is very beneficial to moss. I believe co2 in small amounts is too but if too high, I've seen algae problems this way, this is not with all. Fissidens is a natural aquatic species and does well in high co2, however most other mosses are semi-aquatic, and then theres' terrestrial mosses that just don't grow in water at all. But back to oxygen, pump as much filtration in the tank as possible, you'll see no matter how much filtration you put it won't matter, the moss will grow fast and faster and so on..The cleaner the water the better too. With debris on moss, most mosses aren't really sponges like riccia or mini pellia, so the debris will actually hinder moss growth or even kill it off. The SunSun filter is a great filter due to its size and gph. I on my 55g use two AC110s...Over filtration is definitely a positive to growing moss.
TIPS
Tying your moss is a key to growing moss. You want to wrap it if your using cotton string or line as much as possible but don't overdo it. Its kind've hard to overdo it anyways. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know whether its been overdone or not...if you have more string or line than moss, than you overdid it. If the moss is loose, than you under did it. Moss will still grow if under done, but if you get it right and perfect, it'll give you better fronds. It'll adapt better, it feels like it can attach and will do, unless its a moss that doesn't attach
ADAPTATION
Adaptation is key in growing moss, you must be patient for mosses to adapt, some do better than others, especially the taxiphyllum sp. i.e.. java, flame, peacock and so on. With more oxygen the faster i believe the rate of adaptation. Pretty much every plant needs to adapt cause they're coming from different tanks and environments and so on, co2 speeds this up as well in stem plants and other plants.
Thats all for now...


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## fablau

StrungOut said:


> How I grow moss, short write up, quick style like always
> LIGHTING
> this is probably where you'll make or break...You want your moss not to be shaded to grow perfect fronds as well not high enough to get algae. My old rule was about 2 watts per gallon, but thats outdated. Your lighting will also be based on how much plant life you have as well as moss in the tank. Pack everything the better your odds of success. Examples, a standard 55g two t8s or t12s would do you justice, 1 t5 would do you right, 1 led fixture would do good. Lighting is something you really have to balance. Like I said this will make or break the tank. If you get the balance of light right, you'll find the closer the moss is to being emmersed, the way better the growth, thickness, perfectness, uniformness....
> FILTRATION
> Oxygen is very beneficial to moss. I believe co2 in small amounts is too but if too high, I've seen algae problems this way, this is not with all. Fissidens is a natural aquatic species and does well in high co2, however most other mosses are semi-aquatic, and then theres' terrestrial mosses that just don't grow in water at all. But back to oxygen, pump as much filtration in the tank as possible, you'll see no matter how much filtration you put it won't matter, the moss will grow fast and faster and so on..The cleaner the water the better too. With debris on moss, most mosses aren't really sponges like riccia or mini pellia, so the debris will actually hinder moss growth or even kill it off. The SunSun filter is a great filter due to its size and gph. I on my 55g use two AC110s...Over filtration is definitely a positive to growing moss.
> TIPS
> Tying your moss is a key to growing moss. You want to wrap it if your using cotton string or line as much as possible but don't overdo it. Its kind've hard to overdo it anyways. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know whether its been overdone or not...if you have more string or line than moss, than you overdid it. If the moss is loose, than you under did it. Moss will still grow if under done, but if you get it right and perfect, it'll give you better fronds. It'll adapt better, it feels like it can attach and will do, unless its a moss that doesn't attach
> ADAPTATION
> Adaptation is key in growing moss, you must be patient for mosses to adapt, some do better than others, especially the taxiphyllum sp. i.e.. java, flame, peacock and so on. With more oxygen the faster i believe the rate of adaptation. Pretty much every plant needs to adapt cause they're coming from different tanks and environments and so on, co2 speeds this up as well in stem plants and other plants.
> Thats all for now...



Wow, this is great! Thank you for such a wonderful info, really appreciated! Do you have any pics of your tank and moss?


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## DennisSingh

Thanks Fablau

since its progression, these are outdated


































































Bump:

















































































newly tied


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## fablau

Nice pictures, thank you. You tank looks like has pretty low light, right?


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## DennisSingh

The light pierces the substrate 3/4", i hope to borrow a par meter and soon will tell you par, I would say medium lighting


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