# Eco-Complete or ADA Aquasoil?



## kribkeeper888 (Oct 8, 2011)

Well it depends on how much your willing to spend but I would say for results ADA is 100x better. Plants just grow better in soil lol. Also the powder is for putting on TOP of the normal ADA, not really a substrate of its own, although it can be used that way. Power sand Is basically a volcanic sand with a lot of surface area for bacteria to grow and thrive. If you can get ahold of some at a hardware store or somesuch its a LOT cheaper. Anyway just my 2 cents. And Ive used them both multipul times.


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## Couesfanatic (Sep 28, 2009)

+1. Order both regular and powder for that tank size. Throw throw powder on top.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

The extra money for ADA Aquasoil Amazonia is well worth it. I have a 90g as well and it was expensive to go with the aquasoil, but having used flourite and turface before, i can confidently say that i will never go back to either of those. Aquasoil is _arguably_ one of the best substrate products out there. 

It's "magical" dirt. roud:


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## Gafi (Aug 5, 2011)

How is its ease of use? How deep of a substrate do you usually go with? 3"?

I have used Flourite (meh), Flourite Black Sand (actually dislike it more than fluorite), and Eco-Complete (like it the best thus far)


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## Mike1239 (May 20, 2012)

I'm tired of Eco complete its so hard to get plant to stay in it while they are starting to root i bought 20lbs of it to try out and 20lbs of Carib-sea flora max which is the same stuff. I like the look but they are just too light


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## kribkeeper888 (Oct 8, 2011)

Gafi said:


> How is its ease of use? How deep of a substrate do you usually go with? 3"?
> 
> I have used Flourite (meh), Flourite Black Sand (actually dislike it more than fluorite), and Eco-Complete (like it the best thus far)


 I think 2" is plenty. 3 gets to be a lot and it costs a ton.


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## Gafi (Aug 5, 2011)

kribkeeper888 said:


> I think 2" is plenty. 3 gets to be a lot and it costs a ton.


So would you say like 2" of the actual aquasoil? Like do you put the power sand down first? then 2" of aquasoil, then 0.5 inch of aquasoil powder?


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## kribkeeper888 (Oct 8, 2011)

Gafi said:


> So would you say like 2" of the actual aquasoil? Like do you put the power sand down first? then 2" of aquasoil, then 0.5 inch of aquasoil powder?


Yeah I put about 1/3" power sand and then 1 3/4" aqua soil and then however much powder on top. There is no exact measurement for this, its mostly personal preference. What kind of plants are you going to have?


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## Gafi (Aug 5, 2011)

kribkeeper888 said:


> Yeah I put about 1/3" power sand and then 1 3/4" aqua soil and then however much powder on top. There is no exact measurement for this, its mostly personal preference. What kind of plants are you going to have?


Well, to initally get the tank up and running it will be primarily Stems, with eventually incorporating 2 pieces of large driftwood with moss and ferns around that....then most likely going for a dutch setup with some stems, crypts, some other fore/midground plants (havent entirely decided yet)....maybe som HC or gloss or some other carpeting plant. We have a local store getting a massive shipment of Tropica plants, so I am going through their website atm.....if you have any suggestions, I surely welcome them!


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## Alastair-T (Jun 5, 2011)

I'd just go pureky for the normal ada Amazonia new and not even bother with any power sand etc. those plants will flourish in the normal stuff perfectly. There's much more nutrients in the Ada than any Eco complete etc anyway. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## chou (Feb 23, 2012)

Ada soil grows anything with ease. All 3 of my tanks run ada soil everything grows great.


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## Gafi (Aug 5, 2011)

chou said:


> Ada soil grows anything with ease. All 3 of my tanks run ada soil everything grows great.


are you using just the strict aqua soil...or you using power sand and the powder type as well.....my concern with not using the powder as a top layer is will the fine stems, like HC actually root and stay in the normal type of aquasoil?


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

i use just aqua soil and no powder.. i don't root HC but other hard to plant weeds stay just fine with practice


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## kribkeeper888 (Oct 8, 2011)

You dont need any more then 2" for those plants if you were planting large sword plants then you might want 3 inches otherwise you dont need it. And you could add powder just cuz i think it makes it look better.


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## Gafi (Aug 5, 2011)

kribkeeper888 said:


> You dont need any more then 2" for those plants if you were planting large sword plants then you might want 3 inches otherwise you dont need it. And you could add powder just cuz i think it makes it look better.


So you think the Aquasoil and Powder would be sufficient? I hate to set this all up then realize I should have added the powersand haha


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## Curt_914 (Oct 6, 2007)

If it were me I would use some powersand It is in the system for a reason. It helps to keep the lower portion of the soil from becoming anarobic. it is acctually a pumice stone base and not really so much a sand. at least thats how I see it. In my next build I am going to use Aqua soil personally. I have florite black, eco complete, and floramax that I have all used in the past and sufficeive to say I have been dissapointed. If I would have just coughed up the extra 10 bucks a bag I would have been happier.

Curt


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## Gafi (Aug 5, 2011)

Good discussion here....anyone know how many bags of the PowerSand i would need for a 48x18x24 tank? Looks like there is small, medium and large size granules...it also seems like I can only get the 2 litre bags of the large size at my location, any thoughts?


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## Curt_914 (Oct 6, 2007)

That size tank you will need the medium/large and probable need about 9-12L. You just need a thin layer on the botom of the tank just to cover the botom.

Curt


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## Gafi (Aug 5, 2011)

my other question, is if I go with Eco-complete....how deep should the substrate bed be? 3"? 4"?


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## kribkeeper888 (Oct 8, 2011)

Gafi said:


> my other question, is if I go with Eco-complete....how deep should the substrate bed be? 3"? 4"?


for one dont go with eco complete. Its not all that much better honestly then sand. Amazonia or other ADA soils are amazing compared to. deff worth the cost. And again. you dont NEED 3" of substrate unless you have very large plants unless you like the deep substrate look.

Just realized it was a 90 gal which is the same as my 75 pretty much.I got 5 bags of amazonia thinking i would need them all but i ended up using 3.5 9L bags.


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## Gafi (Aug 5, 2011)

kribkeeper888 said:


> for one dont go with eco complete. Its not all that much better honestly then sand. Amazonia or other ADA soils are amazing compared to. deff worth the cost. And again. you dont NEED 3" of substrate unless you have very large plants unless you like the deep substrate look.
> 
> Just realized it was a 90 gal which is the same as my 75 pretty much.I got 5 bags of amazonia thinking i would need them all but i ended up using 3.5 9L bags.


you said earlier you used 1/3 inch of power sand for your 75....how many bags of PS was that? I can only order the large size in 2L bags....dont want to overbuy it as its like $35/bag


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## kribkeeper888 (Oct 8, 2011)

Gafi said:


> you said earlier you used 1/3 inch of power sand for your 75....how many bags of PS was that? I can only order the large size in 2L bags....dont want to overbuy it as its like $35/bag


I didnt use bags. I was able to get volcanic "power" sand for free. 3 bags might do it for ya.


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## Gafi (Aug 5, 2011)

kribkeeper888 said:


> I didnt use bags. I was able to get volcanic "power" sand for free. 3 bags might do it for ya.


ok good to know....do you need to add any additives to the power sand....I have heard of things like Tourmaline BC, Penac P for Plants etc


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## kribkeeper888 (Oct 8, 2011)

Gafi said:


> ok good to know....do you need to add any additives to the power sand....I have heard of things like Tourmaline BC, Penac P for Plants etc


You can, although bacteria will colonize ether way. Just slower.


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## Gafi (Aug 5, 2011)

Does the Aquasoil pose a problem if one likes to rescape frequently? How long will it take for the ADA Aquasoil to break down? Is the new formula better than the old?


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## anson (Oct 22, 2010)

Gafi said:


> you said earlier you used 1/3 inch of power sand for your 75....how many bags of PS was that? I can only order the large size in 2L bags....dont want to overbuy it as its like $35/bag


Where did you find power sand for $35?


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## Minor Threat (Oct 6, 2012)

go for aquasoil. both are comparatively priced volume-wise. some users have reported ADA AS to last for 7+ years with EI.


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## acitydweller (Dec 28, 2011)

Gafi said:


> Does the Aquasoil pose a problem if one likes to rescape frequently? How long will it take for the ADA Aquasoil to break down? Is the new formula better than the old?


You'll likely get varying answers here but this what I've come up with on my research thus far.

Any capped or layered substrate with sand would be best not to be frequently disturbed so going that route, you sort of want to leAve them where they are once planted for best results.

Breakdown for active soils tends to depend on varying factors, plant density, thickness of substrate, mat of water changes, volume of aquarium, livestock density, etc... Some say a year, while others have much longer life supplementing with root tabs. Not scientifically measured by accounts ive come across. Some planted hobbyists are also less demanding where others would notice deficiencies within days... So you have to take this into account for the range of use.

Do your research and don't go by unsubstantiated recommendations to do one versus the other. If cost is a factor, consider the walstad method. Equally as enjoyable to read about without a corporAte brand behind it. Enjoy


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## reefboi16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Dunno what the concern with flourite and eco-complete being to "light" is all about, I have never had an issue with rooting plants, any plants as a matter of a fact. They all stay down. I guess aquasoil is ok. Not saying anything against it because I have never used it, I am just saying that flourtie does just fine.


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## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

to save some bags of aqua soil i would recommend doing first layer of lava rock.


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## wheatiesl337 (Mar 30, 2011)

That's a lot of money for dirt. Aquasoil will run through it's nutrients and need to be replaced in about 2 years or supplemented with root tabs anyways, right? Please correct me if I am mistaken.


What about about plain organic potting soil capped with a good volcanic sand or other inert sand that matches the characteristics you are looking for? This has been working great for me so far.


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## reefboi16 (Oct 9, 2012)

^+1 exactly my point, nutrients will not last forever.


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

Aquasoil is wonderful, it also is a LOT cleaner than dirt when rescaping because its more solid and less granulated it also has more water flow through it which means more surface area for aerobic bacteria
plants do provide oxygen to their roots but a lot of space in soil will be comprised of anaerobic bacteria.


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## wheatiesl337 (Mar 30, 2011)

It's quite simple to add pumice, sands, etc to organic potting soil to prevent it from becoming compacted and anerobic. The mix I buy even has perlite in it, and I just leave it. Sand cap keeps it down. Sinking egg-crate into the dirt will also help, but make sure you don't want to move plants after they get their roots wrapped around it. 

With the plethora of cheap materials available to add to potting soil to prevent compaction, I stand by my assertion that aquasoil is friggen expensive dirt, and both wind up sapped of nutrients in the end.

I agree that aquasoil is cleaner to work with, but is that worth $300 when $10 of potting soil can get the job done? Maybe for some, but I would rather spend that money on plants and equipment if I end up needing to use root tabs or replace the substrate in 1-2 years anyways.


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## reefboi16 (Oct 9, 2012)

^+1 once again, could not of said it better myself.


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## snakebite (Mar 8, 2007)

If I choose to go with Aqua soil, I would have to purchase power sand as well? So there is no benefit if I just used the aqua soil by itself?


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## wheatiesl337 (Mar 30, 2011)

I believe plenty use aquasoil by itself, and this choice comes down to personal preference.


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## antiquefloorman (Oct 8, 2011)

I just torn down a 55 gallon tank that had MTS capped with Eco complete. I could not tolerate the nitrate levels from the MTS. I researched other substrates, even bought saf t sorb. After trying to work with the STS and get it,rinsed I parked that idea and busted open some NEW Amazonia II. I have it for my shrimp tanks and the tanks have the best growth. I wouldn't hesitate to use it.


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## wheatiesl337 (Mar 30, 2011)

I dont believe MTS, if done properly, should be adding any nitrates to your water column. I use straight organic potting soil and skip the entire mineralizing process. With a cap and letting plants root during dry-start, have never had an issue with nitrates.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/album.php?albumid=9522

Dirt in that tank. Last test <10 ppm nitrates.


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## antiquefloorman (Oct 8, 2011)

So,then where are they coming from?? I was getting high nitrate levels before I started dosing EI. I have 0 bioload on this tank. It is a plant farm tank. I just did my first wc after swapping substrate, NH4/NH3 .5 mg/L, NO3 <.5 MG/L. My last test was NO3 50 MG/L. I am convinced it was problems with the MTS. What do you think??


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

Really depends what your setup and goal is, but for overall ease of use, plant growth, flexibilty (low to high light) that allows some rearranging Aquasoil is to me the best choice. I've done setups with AS, Eco and soil and you are very limited with a soil setup in terms of scaping, light intensity, etc. 

Aquasoil-based setups could go 6 months without adding anything and still get very good growth, but I would add K since this seems to run low. As long as you do regular water changes and do a medium EI-based dosing routine I have found testing unncessary unless your having serious issues. Regular water changes are the key along with a replenishing ferts on a regular basis.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Could be the MTS, depending upon what's in it. Could be you making too many changes over a short period of time without allowing anything to settle down.

Tough to say either way.


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## whiptail (Jul 13, 2012)

I changed from plain gravel to Eco-Complete in my 75gal about 3months ago. The plants still do not grow like they did with plain gravel and one bag of florite. The pics show what the plants look like. It seems like they are lacking in something, but I haven't been able to figure out what.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

whiptail said:


> I changed from plain gravel to Eco-Complete in my 75gal about 3months ago. The plants still do not grow like they did with plain gravel and one bag of florite. The pics show what the plants look like. It seems like they are lacking in something, but I haven't been able to figure out what.


Are you dosing? Did you stop dosing because your using Eco?


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## whiptail (Jul 13, 2012)

Yes I dose. I tryed increasing the dose, just got more algae so I cut back. Hair grass seems to do fine.
Sorry for the delay, something came up I had to leave town for awhile.


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## alkatraz (Jul 28, 2012)

whiptail said:


> I changed from plain gravel to Eco-Complete in my 75gal about 3months ago. The plants still do not grow like they did with plain gravel and one bag of florite. The pics show what the plants look like. It seems like they are lacking in something, but I haven't been able to figure out what.


Are those pinholes? Could be potassium deficiency?
http://www.aquariumslife.com/aquascaping/fertilizers-and-co2/aquarium-plants-deficiency/


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## whiptail (Jul 13, 2012)

Yes they are pin holes. I have tried adding Flourish Potassium with my regular doseing. As you can see it didn't make any difference. Here is a better pic of them.


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## Option (Oct 2, 2010)

wheatiesl337 said:


> That's a lot of money for dirt.


LOL....yeah, that was pretty much my conclusion before even completely reading this thread.


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## Green_Flash (Apr 15, 2012)

I purchased aquasoil for the 1st time 3 months ago and will never use another substrate.


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## acitydweller (Dec 28, 2011)

whiptail said:


> I changed from plain gravel to Eco-Complete in my 75gal about 3months ago. The plants still do not grow like they did with plain gravel and one bag of florite. The pics show what the plants look like. It seems like they are lacking in something, but I haven't been able to figure out what.


How heavy was the tank stocked with fish? How mature was the tank with Eco? What sort of lighting fo you have in the tank? Co2 injection? Seems like there was a problem regardless of substrate.


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## aznrice247 (Feb 1, 2012)

Couesfanatic said:


> +1. Order both regular and powder for that tank size. Throw throw powder on top.


I heard its better to put some of the power on the bottom and then put the regular in the middle then put the rest on the top. I'll prolong the lifespan of the substrate.


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## exv152 (Jun 8, 2009)

Aside from low nutrients, pinholes are also caused by co2 deficiencies, or snails.


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## whiptail (Jul 13, 2012)

Snails are not the problem, I have some, but not many. There are 15 tetras and 3 bristlenose. The tank was running about 10 years before I changed the substrate. That was about 4 months ago now. I am going to try turning the co2 up as exv152 suggested. I have a drop checker but I could never get it to read correctly. I think it might be all the wood. Anyway I'll let you know if it works.
Thanks for the help.


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## monty67 (Sep 22, 2010)

Really like the way Eco Complete works, hated the way it really did nothing for my tank and actually seemed to set it back.


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## whiptail (Jul 13, 2012)

Thanks exv152 I increased the co2 and things are starting to look better now. Hopefully that will do it.


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