# The Oto Journal



## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

This is a bit late from the beginings but figured I go ahead and start it off here.

History: I had a 10g tank setup for plants. I included a pair of oto's to help with a major diatom problem that soon developed. I later added yellow shrimp and briggs snails. Turns out the oto's were a matched pair (male and female). One day I noticed wigglers in tank. The rest is history from there. The pair continue to have offspring today.

Setup:
Tank: 10g
Substrate: SMS (Soil Master Select)
Lighting: T24 (20w)
Photo Period: 10hrs (0800-1800)
Heavily Planted (species list to follow later)
Occupants: 2 adult oto's, Yellow shrimp and (5) Briggs snails and (1) CRS shrimp
Feeding (as of 05/29): (2) pinches finely ground up flake food and (2) small Hikari algae waffers broken up into very small pieces.
DIY Co2 (jell-o method)
Dry Ferts (I started with the PMDD pre-mix, then switched to EI dosing. Since the wee ones started appearing, I went back to PMDD for more stability)
Water Changes: I try to keep between 10-20% every other week. It used to be weekly, but now I have to try and maintain very extremely little change in this tank.

Water Parameters: (These are my average measurements)
Temp: ~ 74
PH: ~ 7.4
NO3: ~ 40
NO2: 0
NH3: 0
GH: ~ 11
KH: ~ 6

I think this is good baseline info to start off with. I have had baby oto's for quite awhile now. I did lose one batch of fry to what I determined was fouled water from a water change. 

Here's my numbers at last count (a couple of days ago):
Juvenile Otos: 1
Baby Otos: 12: 9 showing color and 3 newbies (still white)

I did a 20% water change today. Could not get an accurate count of babies today to excessive activity between the Oto's and baby yellow shrimp. Way too much activity. I did manage to physically count (7) on the glass. There were swimmers all over the place.

That's my beginings. Will continue to keep this post updated as much as possible. There's not a whole lot of info out here on Oto's and especially breeding them. I'm definately not trying to breed...just letting nature take it's course. My job now is strictly to maintain this tank as stable as possible.

Thanks for reading and feel free to ask any questions and such you may have.

J.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*05/30*: Another disaster strikes after a water change. This time though it was not of my doing or bad water. We lost power today. Power line went down out there somewhere. We were out for over three hours. Only visible casulties found were (3) yellow shrimp. Not a whole lot of activity like before, but I did see quite a few baby oto's and baby shrimp lingering about.

One area of interest....seems baby oto's as well like zuccini. They are all over two of the pieces. These pieces have been sitting in the tank for a couple of days. They were blanced extremely well...over (6) mins. Kind of kewl watchin them work it over.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Pics from today (05/30). Wanted to get some of the little ones working over the zuc. This is my fav.


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## blair (Feb 8, 2009)

Very neat  I'll have try some zucchini for mine.


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

Isn't your water a bit hard for otos? How do you get them to breed like that?


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Axelrodi202 said:


> Isn't your water a bit hard for otos? How do you get them to breed like that?


Not from what I understand but then again who really knows. While doing research on these little guys I have seen such a wide array of parameters. 

As for the breeding, I just have to say I got lucky. I wasn't trying to breed them. They were just there for algae control. Nature has taken over and doing their own thing.


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

First off, let me say I'm very jealous! (in a good way, I hope)



Axelrodi202 said:


> Isn't your water a bit hard for otos? How do you get them to breed like that?


I was thinking the same thing, from what I've read they like soft soft water to get them to breed.



james0816 said:


> Not from what I understand but then again who really knows. While doing research on these little guys I have seen such a wide array of parameters.
> 
> As for the breeding, I just have to say I got lucky. I wasn't trying to breed them. They were just there for algae control. Nature has taken over and doing their own thing.



Yes you have gotten lucky, but you're not the only one. In the years I've been on the forums the first couple no one ever had any success maybe one or two people on the dozen forums I had frequented. Now in the past year or two there have been at least two people accidentally breeding ottos just on these forums... Insane:hihi:

-Andrew


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

A Hill said:


> Yes you have gotten lucky, but you're not the only one.


Yep...Thingamarob out here has as well. Which is cool!


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*06/02* Had to shift some plants on the top around. Still haven't haven't found the time to prune. The ricca carpet floating up top has grown considerably. May have to split it. Another smaller one has formed. Hopefully can get in there and prune tomorrow.

On the baby front, quite a bit of activity around today. Swarming all over the place. Still counted (8) little ones (as they were on the glass). Couple of swimmers so it's hard to get an accurate count.
Mama was REALLY busy. Found (16) eggs. This is the largest batch I have seen. I think I may be on to something on their breeding. Their activity has been very tight the past two days. When I checked today (after the discovery) they were at seperate ends. Will continue to monitor this behavior. 

Had to turn on the airstone to break up the surface. Co2 needs recharging as well. Water test pending.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*06/02*

Water Test Results:
Temp: 74
PH: ~7.4
NO3: 20
NO2 and NH3 ~ 0
KH: 6
GH: 10

Attribute NitrAte drop due to lack of fert dosing. I stopped dosing dry ferts until I can trim and take back control.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*06/03:* Big storms rolled through last night knocking out power. Was down for another three hour period. When power was restored, I only checked to make sure the filter was running. Will access any damage later today.


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## pandapr (Nov 10, 2008)

Have you considered a battery air pump. It will start whenever power goes off. 
Good luck with the otos !!!


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Love it, thanks for sharing. Good to know that they don't need super soft water to successfully breed.

You should buy a bunch of zebra otos and see if you can propagate those, I am sure there is great demand for them.

Also, I'd recommend to buy an inverter that you can connect to your car 12V outlet. Pull a power cable from the inverter to your filter and power it if there are any outages. Of course, works only if you are at home at that time.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Here's some pics from today (06/03):

Batch of eggs found yesterday:










Newest batch of eggs found today (06/03). Five total new eggs were found today:









Baby photo from today (06/03):









Bonus shot...flowering plant:


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

Looks awesome
Any whole tank shots ???



FYI: Ultimate Battery Back up

Run one of these babies with a boat/RV deep cycle car battery
http://www.nextwarehouse.com/item/?159154_g10e

Run your whole set-up for hours and hours, completely automated. roud:
Want more time or power load just add another RV battery.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Heading out of town shortly for the weekend so there will be no hatching updates. I did a top off and quick spot check. A few of the eggs are beginning to hatch. Hopefully when I get back on Sunday, there will be tons of wiggle waggles around.


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## Cwhite (Dec 16, 2007)

This is so cool, I love reading about people breeding fish! Keep up the updates!


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*06/07:* Got home a bit ago. Finally decided to go down and check in on them. Only found (6) wigglers. I did find (11) new eggs though. Snails are still acting funny. Not much activity from them guys. Got a water change scheduled for tomorrow. Do some major renovations as well.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*06/08:* Tank cleanup in progress. Flushed out a lot of wee ones when I was clearing out duckweed. I dunked the carpet of ricca a few times to free it from everything else. It is laying up top of alot of different plants. After a couple minutes, I noticed quite a few little ones (freshly hatched) on the side glass where I was working. Progress continues.


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## malaybiswas (Nov 2, 2008)

This is awesome. I thought it is hard to breed ottos. How did you manage?


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*06/18:* Been out of the game for awhile. My father was in the hospital for a spell. He is battling cancer. He is out of the hosp and in a rehab clinic now getting better every day. Word of caution. Hypercalcium is a very nasty thing.

On the Oto front. Got home earlish today and was able to finally to maintenance on it...but alas...too late for some. I had to stop by the store to get some spring water to use for the water change. It has been raining like crazy here and the well water is still brownish. More rain to come too!

Lost all the snails.







I will search for replacements later this evening. The little babies loved working their shells over. I did loose several wigglers as well.

On the bright side of things. Mom and dad are still doing well. I found one egg prior to doing the water change. Shortly after wards (within about 15 mins) I found (5) more eggs. Mama still laying them so that is good.

As for babies: I now have (3) that I will classify as juevenilles. The original one and two others that are now just over 1/4". There are also at least (4) wigglers. I believe there are more I think I counted (6) a little while ago but just now I only found (4).

Tons of shrimp still here. Found more itty biddies as well. A good number that are about 1/4". 

DIY Co2 is drained...as to be expected. Jell-o in the fridge as I type. Fert dosing to resume in the morning.

Plants are still in disarray after I started to trim and such. The crypt jungle has two new additions forming. As well, I'm not sure of the plant at the moment but it has off shoots sprouting up from the substrate all over too. If you look in the previous pics, it is the long leaved one that looks similar to a Val.

That's it for now. Water test scheduled for tomorrow.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*06/20:*

Still have to finish the prunning of the plants but at least I got the water change done the other day. Snapped some quick pics from this morning.

Here's a hatching in progess. Yellow shrimp supervising making sure all goes well. 












Here's a couple shots of new hatchlings:









There's two in this one:









New ones are so hard to get clear pictures of.

Here's two of the three juvenilles in there. The oldest one just wouldn't sit still for a pic.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*06/25:* Checked on the guys today. Getting ready to do another water change. At initial look, all appears to be just fine. Mom and Dad are hanging out together again. Will be on the watch for eggs.

As for babies, I counted (8). Getting bigger every day. All are coloring up. I only saw two that are pretty small/newish. Still have the (3) juvies and (3) others that approaching juvy status.

Working on my other tanks at the moment so can't finish the plants. Which seems to be a good thing. Most of the babies are really working over the crypt jungle.

Quit a few yellow shrimp in there as well. Need to start looking into thining the herd.


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## Down_Shift (Sep 20, 2008)

Wow this is amazing. Good accidental job.


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## finfan (Jun 16, 2008)

this is so cool, never really seen oto spawn in aquariums, congrats


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*06/27: *All appears to be doing well in the Oto tank. Lots of babies swimming around. Was hard to get an accurate count. I did manage to fire off some pics. Here's the best ones from today:

Mom and a baby muching a zuc:









Let's all gather around the zuc:









A yellow shrimp just observing it all:


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## mayanjungledog (Mar 26, 2009)

Congratulations on your baby otos! How long do you blanch the zucchini for? Do you nuke it in the microwave? Also, how long do you leave the zucchini in the tank before removing it? I love your oto journal. I accidentally started "breeding" otos too. Same deal. I bought a trio for algae control in my shrimp tank, and all of a sudden, there are little fry guys swimming around. Very cool!


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

mayanjungledog said:


> Congratulations on your baby otos! How long do you blanch the zucchini for? Do you nuke it in the microwave? Also, how long do you leave the zucchini in the tank before removing it? I love your oto journal. I accidentally started "breeding" otos too. Same deal. I bought a trio for algae control in my shrimp tank, and all of a sudden, there are little fry guys swimming around. Very cool!


I usually nuke it for around three minutes. Get's it nice and soft (and sinks on its own I might add ). When I had my snails, <sniff>, I didn't have to worry about taking it out as within two days, it would be all gone. I try to let it stay in there as long as possible as the wee ones go at it pretty good.

Kewlness on your Oto's too! Post up some info and pics! Would like to compare notes.


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## mdfa.ca (Apr 27, 2009)

These little guys have got to be the cutest little fry I've seen in a long time! CONGRATULATIONS!!!


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*07/01:* Checked on my babies today. All is well. Alot of activity. Didn't bother counting today. Zuchini's are dissapearing fast! Between the Oto's and the shrimps...they all have full bellies.  

On the plus side....I put in 4 briggs the other day. Babies wasted no time workin over the shells. And wouldn't ya know it...I didn't have the camera at that time to catch it. A couple of them had 2-3 babies on the shells.

Getting ready to add more zuc and recharge Co2. I have two more jungles to take care of then I get the plants in the Oto tank squared away again.


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

Any Updates?

-Andrew


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

This is too awesome!


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*The Oto Journal - Update 23-Jun-2011*

Oh wow! I didn't even realize I had started this journal on this site. I was going to post this in the Cocama journal and did a search to find it and this one was here. I so apologize to everyone out here for not keeping up with it. There is a huge gap but I will keep it current as of today.

And speaking of today.....

The moment we have all been waiting for. Eggs! Woohoo!

Looks like Papa Oto is no longer in mourning. I was affraid with the loss of Mama, he wasn't going to have interest in the other two ladies. Today finally tells a different and much welcomed story.



















These were found today. Now I didn't check the tanks yesterday as I didn't get home in time but judging by their appearance, they were laid last night/early this morning. I have counted (78) at the moment. There is (1) that looks like it will be non-viable. I have some other work to do in the other tanks but will try and count again later.

Majority of the eggs are in the Bacopa and Crypt jungle. There were very few found in the Ludwigia this time.

I'm so relieved now.


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## aXio (May 29, 2011)

And still no fts... tisk tisk


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

aXio said:


> And still no fts... tisk tisk


May have to help me out here...."still no fts"????


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

This gives me hope that otos will eventually be easier to tank breed and take some pressure off the wild stocks. That should also reduce the atrocious shipping and stocking losses including the ones I buy. I only have 2 out of the 5 I got a couple of months ago.


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

james0816 said:


> May have to help me out here...."still no fts"????


FTS stands for Full Tank Shot


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

OMG and I didn't get that??? That's it...time for another beer.

I'll have a FTS up in just a bit. I will update the entire tank as well from flora and fauna.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Here is the shot of my main breeder:










*Tank Specs as of 23-Jun-2011*

Fauna: Otocinclus Vittatus, Caridina serratirostris

Flora: Bacopa monnieri, C. Balansae, C. Wendtii, Echinodorus angustifolia, Littorella americana, L. Repens, L. Repens x Arcuata, Pogostemon helferi, Ranunculus Inundatus, Subwassertang

Substrate: SMS
Lighting: 20w T-8 w/ 10hr photo period

Additional Details: DIY CO2 and PMDD pre-mix ferts.


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

What are those 3 tin things in front of your tank? O.O


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Those are my room guages: temp, humidity and barometer


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## Wingsdlc (Dec 9, 2005)

Sweet! Congrats on the eggs! What have you been feeding your Otos? I am getting spawns on my corry cats but not with Otos yet that I know of. One of my females has been getting a huge belly now and then.


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## aXio (May 29, 2011)

Very nice! Thank you =)


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## jart (Jan 17, 2003)

Great thread and great pics. I love otos!


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Wingsdlc said:


> What have you been feeding your Otos?


I feed a combination of Ken's Veggie Flakes and Sticks, Zucchini and as a treat ... seaweed.


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## roni (Aug 28, 2006)

James,

I got dibs on your oto babies


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*The Oto Journal - Update 24-Jun-2011*

Eggs looking good today. The one that I thought was going to be non-viable, was. I found two more non-viables as well. Along with that, there were a few more laid yesterday. One on the glass.

Hatching expected tomorrow.


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## dknydiep1 (May 21, 2006)

Looks great! Sell me some babies once they hatch!


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*Update 25-Jun-2011*

As expected, we have a hatch. Counted 21 fry guys at the moment. Some are in perfect photo op places...but...wife has my fav camera. DOH! I'll try to use her SLR and see how well it goes. 

Found Ninja zoea in the tank too. Not sure how I missed that female. They aren't called ninja's for no reason.


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

Sweet! Congrats on the frys. Good luck. Please put me on the waiting list too. 

What do you feed Oto frys?


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*Update 26-Jun-2011*

Counted (20) fry today. Here's a couple shots for ya:









And how hard is it to spot them when they are under a leaf:









I'll start feeding the fry this evening. Now here's a minor problem...I go on holiday Wednesday for a week. Hopefully the sitter will be able to feed according to the directions. Shouldn't be too bad but will cross my fingers while I'm gone that I come back and all will be well.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

shrimpnmoss said:


> What do you feed Oto frys?


I take some Ken's Veggie Flakes and Sticks and grind them up into a very fine powder. I will mix a small amount of this with some tank water. Shake well and then pour out over the areas where the fry are.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Last update for a week due to holiday. Counted (12) wigglers actively moving about. Haven't seen them swim in and out of the Subwassertang as yet but then again, they are only a couple days old. 

Performed a water change on the tank and added a piece of zucchini. Hopefully all will be well upon my return.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*Update 29-Jun-2011*

And a parting photo for you:

Starting to color up nicely:









I counted (13) fry guys just now. Fed the fry and lights are out. They are pretty much on their own for a week. I hope they will be able to find plenty of food in the tank. I did place a slice of zuc in there as well. Feeding is a bit complicated for the sitter and spotting fry could be a challenge. I may just have the sitter feed the powder food in a couple of days just in case.

Hope everyone has a safe 4th and we'll see you in a week. I'll probably still be monitoring while on holiday.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

> I may just have the sitter feed the powder food in a couple of days just in case.


Hope the sitter isn't of the 'more is always better' philosophy.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Back from holiday now.  They are always soooo short. But this one was especially short but time well taken. Anyway, got home very late last night so really couldn't check on the tanks. I did go downstairs to turn off the tanks with the manual lights. Too tired to really examine them. I was very curious in the Vittatus tank and almost turned the light on to look. 

Right as I was reaching for the switch on the timer, I saw a fry guy swim to the front of the tank. Using just the lighting in the room, I was able to scan around and found (3) wee ones on the glass. Very good sign. Will get a better look later this afternoon.

Another tank I noticed...Duckweed! This will tell you how fast it will grow. Before I left, I removed almost all of it from a 20long tank. When I checked last night, the entire tank was again covered from side to side. This in just a matter of a weeks time. Wowsers! Duckweed anyone? 

I'm going to stop by to get some spring water for water changes today in the breeding tanks.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*Update 07-Jul-2011*

Check of the tanks after holiday. All looks well. No casulties to report. Whew! Always nervous when I leave for an extended period of time.

Best part of all....I counted at least (15) fry swimming around. All looking nice and healthy. This is a very good sign as the fry didn't get their special food.

Now the tank on the other hand, it needs some help. I need to scrape the front glass and .... I found Hydra in the tank. Very odd I must say. Not sure how these guys wound up showing up. I won't be scrapping the tank anytime soon though with the fry in there so I'll just deal with it for now.

Water changes are going on as I type.

Here's a couple shots to get you by for now:


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## Wingsdlc (Dec 9, 2005)

Wow! Fantastic work! This is probably the best documented oto spawn I have read about. I would be more than interested in getting some of your fry also. Well done!


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Thanks. This has been a fun journey.


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## GDP (Mar 12, 2011)

I really enjoyed reading this. Interesting to know they do breed lol.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*Update 11-Jul-2011*

Babes continue to do well and growing up nicely. Count is nearing (20) as the activity increasing. They are zipping all over the tank. Prepping new zucchini to put in for them. This group is more visible than those of past. They don't run in an out of the Subwassertang as much. I'll refresh the CO2 as well and do a water change tomorrow.

Here's a couple of shots from today:









I like this one. Shows a good shot of the belly developing and ... well ... the path of poo.


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## msjinkzd (May 12, 2007)

toooo cute!!


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

That's really coool and you must have good eyes to find these eggs. I just got 5 Oto's not more than a month ago and they were all tiny, now 2 are huge in lenth and they are so fat they look like they might explode, but the other 3 are still small in both directions. I wonder if the 2 are pregant females, one can only hope, good luck and thanks for the great pics.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

150EH said:


> That's really coool and you must have good eyes to find these eggs.


They aren't too incredibly hard to find actually. They are just a bit smaller than Cory eggs. It can be tricky to find them under crypt leaves though. 

The wigglers are even harder to spot as they are nearly invisible for the first few days. You have to look for two little black dots most of the time.


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## GDP (Mar 12, 2011)

150EH said:


> That's really coool and you must have good eyes to find these eggs. I just got 5 Oto's not more than a month ago and they were all tiny, now 2 are huge in lenth and they are so fat they look like they might explode, but the other 3 are still small in both directions. I wonder if the 2 are pregant females, one can only hope, good luck and thanks for the great pics.


Yeah I too have two otos that are bigger than my other 3. Even after a few months so I figure its the difference between male/female.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*Update 13-Jul-2011*

Sad news...I watched a little one pass away.  Poor thing. I tried to catch it to see if I can possibly isolate but it disappeared. I'm sure it's gone by now. All others that I can see are doing well, very active and grazing on things. Some of them look like they are really going on a growth spurt. There are all different sizes in here.

Did a water test today after yesterday's water change. Here are the results:

pH: 7.4
gh: 6
kh: 5
no3: 10 (no fert dosing until wee ones hit three weeks)
tds: 144
temp: 76

Room parms: temp: 68 / humidity: 44% / barometric: 25.75

Plants already need a good trimming since the rescape. They grew really fast. I'm going to transfer a couple Downoi crowns over to the Cocama tank.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*The Oto Journal - Update 14-Jul-2011*

Vittatus fry continue to develop and are doing very well. Some are getting really dark as well. Piglets I must say.

Now...on to the interesting. The Macros are finally in spawn mode. However, unless the boys get thier act together, this is going to be a dead spawn and the lady will loose her eggs. Here's why. There are three boys in here. As of right now...I'm calling them the three stooges. The gal is trying her darnedest to get the boys to .. well .. you know. She leads them to a spot and then they swim away in their little pack crazily. Quite funny actually. Then she will track them down again and it repeats. She's so big, she's about ready to explode. I'm sure if she was able she would smack each of them upside the head. 

I think I may be partly to blame as well. I'm in the middle of a big water change and maintenance in the tank. The only thing she has to work with are C. pontederiifolia. I pulled all the stems to rescape. DOH! She is trying to work the Ponts though which is good.

Now if the guys will just get thier act together.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*Update 21-Jul-2011*

Babes continue to grow nicely. Have colored up extremely well. I'm comparing this to last groups where they weren't as dark at this age. As mentioned before to, the sizes of some of them makes me think that someone smuggled in some steroids or something. I may have to look at random testing.  Tried to snap some pics but that group didn't turn out well. They are on tap for a water change today and their first exposure to CO2 and ferts.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*Update 24-Jul-2011*

Little piggies what can I say. Zucchini slices aren't lasting very long at the moment with the fry guys. Excellent sign. On top of that, during this morning's check, I walked in on spawning activity. Was quite comical once I found Papa and Mama2 Oto. She was under a crypt leaf and Pops was on top. They both were looking at me as if to say "What? We're not doing anything". 

I was going to be doing a small water change in the tank today with the plant prunning the other day. However, after that discovery, I will have to wait and see what happens with the spawn first.

I also need to pull (2) ninja's and put them in isolation. Hopefully be able to do that today.


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

awesome!


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## Wingsdlc (Dec 9, 2005)

Love this thread! All of the updates are really great! Thinking it is time to get some veggies of my Otos.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Thanks guys!

Spawn is confirmed. I was curious so I did a check look in. I saw two eggs sitting in the Ludwigia area. A quick glance in the crypts where I saw mom and pop earlier yielded about 10 more. I'm sure that come tomorrow there will be a lot more.

I have started the process of moving the Macrophilus to another tank. The new one is more set up for breeding with one exception..pH. It's 7.6 in this tank. Substrate is Eco for Planted Aquariums. It's very odd in that I am using straight tap water for this tank as it was advised not use buffers like crushed coral which I do in the other tanks. Interesting indeed. I went ahead with the move despite that number as it will provide the female more opportunities to lay her eggs. The other tank wasn't very suited for that. Maybe now the three musketeer's will get their act together.


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## Wingsdlc (Dec 9, 2005)

I don't keep very good track of my water. 

I am guessing that my pH is around 6.5 with CO2, kH around 3 and my nitrates around 10-20 with dosing. Seems to work for my Cory's but I wonder if I am off for my otos or maybe they don't want to spawn with tank mates. Any thoughts?


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## celine (Nov 19, 2010)

omg, this is officially the cutest thread ever!!!! tho i'm sure mom and pop don't appreciate you putting all their fun times on the internet XD


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Wingsdlc said:


> I wonder if I am off for my otos or maybe they don't want to spawn with tank mates. Any thoughts?


pH is lower than what I breed at but I don't feel that it is a show stopper. My thoughts are activity and comfort levels are the two main areas of focus.

When I bred Tiger shrimp in their tank and the numbers got too high, they stopped breeding. I since replaced the Tigers with Ninja's and this has kept both the activity and numbers down in the tank.

Now I'm not saying they won't breed in community tanks, it will just be less of a chance.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

celine said:


> omg, this is officially the cutest thread ever!!!! tho i'm sure mom and pop don't appreciate you putting all their fun times on the internet XD


lol...and to think I thought about putting a web cam on this tank too. :icon_smil


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## TankZen (Jan 31, 2011)

Very coool! wow : ). Keep breeding. I want to buy some from you.


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## Wingsdlc (Dec 9, 2005)

My 75g tank is pretty mellow. I have 5 adult corys and their offspring (maybe 6-10 juvies), 7-9 rummy nose tetras, 4 common male guppies, 6 ottos, and a couple hundred cherry shrimp.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*The Oto Journal - Update 25-Jul-2011*

Well, well, well...we have a shame on me moment here. That spawn I was referring to...actually started two days ago. The eggs I found yesterday ... hatched today! So that tells me they had a dry run the other day and what I stepped in on may have been the beginings of the big one. No additional eggs today though so I think I disturbed them too much. Drat! Anyway, (6) wigglers found today.

Now for the problem. I am also seeing and increased amount of Hydra in this tank. A few I can deal with. There seems to be a lot in here now. They are probably getting fat and happy on the fry food. Maybe zoea from for the Ninja shrimp too. Need to find a good way of controlling these guys under these circumstances. Gonna be rough.

I'm going to do another water change in the tank this evening. Maybe scrape a few leaves to see if I can remove some of these buggers. Water change will have to be very slow dripping back in the with the fry guys.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Get out the chopsticks and start manually picking at 'em the best you can to thin 'em out for your babies.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*The Oto Journal - Update 26-Jul-2011*

Found (11) wigglers today. Awesome deal! Will start feeding tomorrow. Unfortunately, the Hydra are gonna like that too. I'm going to start with some squishing and rubbing of plants to see if I can remove most of them that way.

As for the Macro's, well...she's trying again in the new tank. The boys as usual are being immature.  I don't know what this poor gal has to do to get them to work with her. Anyone have any studs to loan out? lol 

I'm sure things will be ok the more they get used to their new home.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*The Oto Journal - Update 27-Jul-2011*

Vittatus update: (17) eggs found today, (3) wiggle waggles, didn't try to count the older fry guys. I'm really curious on the spawning activity. Of course I don't know if it is one lady or both. It's almost as if they are laying in test batches. Either that or the Hydra are actually interferring with it all. Either way, I have order some meds to erradicate them. I've been speaking with a very knowledgable person about and have been ensured that no harm will come to anything in the tank other than Hydra.

Macrospilus: The female is still trying to get the guys' attention. ADHD still taking over them. She reals them in, a little nudge game and then over to the plants. It's at that point where the boys "see a toad and then chase after it". Only explanation I gots fer it.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*Update 02-Aug-2011*

Another spawn taking place. Not sure if it will be another mini or not though. I counted (27) eggs at the moment. Most of these are laid in the Bacopa area. I've only seen a couple Hydra there which I wondering if it plays a role. Either way, I will be eliminating them soon and hopefully safely. Snapped off a few pics. Time to see how good they may have turned out.


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

still in line James for some James0816 Zebra Otos


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

lol. Still crossing fingers for them too. Haven't seem any tell tell signs from them as yet though.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Got home late again today. Hatching already took place. No wigglers on the glass at the moment. Most are still on the plants. I went ahead and did the water change. Normally this is done right before the hatching but I think it will be ok. Didn't get a chance to count them before the lights went out.


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## 2drtahoe4x4 (Oct 14, 2009)

Where do you tend to find your otos lay their eggs? I too have some that seem to breed pretty regularly but rarely do I find there eggs just see new babies appearing haha.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

2drtahoe4x4 said:


> Where do you tend to find your otos lay their eggs? I too have some that seem to breed pretty regularly but rarely do I find there eggs just see new babies appearing haha.


Awesome! There are three areas that they will use: Bacopa Monnerei (seems to be the most popular spot), Ludwigia and Crypts are the other two.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*Update 06-Sep-2011*

Came home today to do a big trimming in the Vittatus tank....wrong....they had other plans. Spawning instead. It seems as if they can somehow read my mind in what I'm going to do. Everytime I go to do a big trim, they spawn.  I only got a quick glance and saw a few eggs. I did see one that is non viable. I'll work elsewhere until later this evening before the lights go out and see if I can get a better look.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Here's a couple of shots for today:








This one shows a non viable egg. I'll have to remove that one.








I briefly checked and found a few more eggs and one more non viable.


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## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

Congrats on all the spawning going on.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Thx


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Got home today and didn't find any eggs. Hmmm...disturbing. I only had a couple minutes to look but didn't look good. Now to try and figure that one out. On plus side...I found a fry that I would guestimate about 4-5 days old! They must have a secret hiding spot for eggs now. I'll do some more looking either tonight or tomorrow and then tank maintenance.


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## Wingsdlc (Dec 9, 2005)

I wouldn't be surprised if they are better at hiding them. My cory cats do that now. I haven't seen an egg in the tank in months yet I have quite a few fry and juvies in the tank. Keep your eyes open and you will find them.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Yeah...maybe they are getting tired of me always peeping in on them.  The crypt jungle has become a very popular place of late. No way I can check all of them leaves.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

You are a peeping Jim :eek5:


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*Update 08-Sep-2011*

Pleasant surprise today. While I didn't find any eggs, I did find one freshy hatched fry. While searching for others, I started seeing more older fry. I wound up counting (6) now that look to be approaching a week in age. Very nice! I will still have to do a small water change today and will do so slowly just as if the eggs were hatching tomorrow as was expected.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*Update: 17-Oct-2011*

Big update from yesterday. Only big by virtue of action taken in the main breeder. The Hydra are really popping up and I needed to take immediate action in this tank. It was finally time to dose the tank with Flubendazole. As nerve wrecking as it was, it has to be done.

Hundreds of shrimp zoea floating in the tank so I'm sure the Hydra are staying well fed. Time for them to be erradicated.

I moved the Briggs out to another tank. Then, I mixed just under 1/8tsp of the Flub with tank water and poured it behind the filter media. I did it that way so the media could catch the undisolved particles.

Now we wait.

{Crosses Fingers}


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*Update 20-Oct-2011*

No sign of Hydra yesterday. I only focused on the areas where they were prominent. I'll get a much better scan of the tank today. All shrimps and Otos (even the wee ones) seemed just fine.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

No signs of Hydra for the past few days. Have scoured the tank as best as I could for signs. Started to transition the tank back to normal. Began with a 50% water change and put carbon in the filter. Will run it this way for a week and repeat the process. Probably won't be for another couple weeks (at least) that I try to re-introduce Briggs back into the tank. Ninja shrimp continue to do their thing. I'm still finding zoea all in the tank. Flubendazole appears to have done it's job. Now we wait to see if there is/was any impact on breeding. {crosses fingers again}


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## Capsaicin_MFK (Nov 15, 2009)

Overall, how many Otos have been hatched and grown to adult size?


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Some of my Oto's look like they might expode at any second and others are slim and short and very near their original size when introducrd to my tank. I'm guessing the females are smaller or is it the other way round and does fat have anything to do with fry?

Take look and if you know what kind they are please help me out they were unmarked at the LFS and I have them labeled Otocinclus affinis


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*Update 13-Nov-2011*

After weeks of nail biting after the Flubendazole treatment, I can finally relax. There is a spawn in progress. Whew! I was so worried even though everyone was trying to reassure me. I didn't bother trying to count the eggs at the moment since more eggs are being laid every time I go down there. I am trying to minimize my travels for now. I'll get some pics and a count later. Right now, the majority are being laid in the Ludwigia area.

Yay!


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I guess your not gonna reply to the question above your last post?


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Seems I missed a couple questions here. My apologies folks.



150EH said:


> I'm guessing the females are smaller or is it the other way round and does fat have anything to do with fry


My apologies! It is the other way around. The females are much larger than the males. That's a nice zexy lady you have shown there. The fatness is just a sign of how many eggs she's potentially carrying.


They appear to be Vitattus. If you can get a better shot of the tail I can confirm better.



Capsaicin_MFK said:


> Overall, how many Otos have been hatched and grown to adult size?


To date, I'm approaching 200 now. Depending on how many survive this spawn, I could go over that mark.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Cool, I will get a better shot and thanks for the reply, I've been waiting and I posted in another journal of yours too trying to get a good ID on these fish, so the fat females are carrying eggs more than likely and is not just a pig, I'm guessing if she liked her environment enough to produce them that maybe she will deposit some in the tank but with it being a community there's not much chance that they will get passed by and most likely will only make a snack for another fish. 

roud: Wow 200 that's quite an accomplishment, good job!


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

yeah...oto fry in a community is some good nummy nums.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

My photo skills have really diminished lately. I just couldn't snap off any good pics. Sry. Hopefully I can get a few before the hatching. Then it's on to focus on new fry pics.

I also tried to get somewhat of an egg count. That as well turned out to be difficult. After I left, they really worked over the Bacopa area and just laid a ton of eggs in there. I counted as many as (10) on one leaf! Only visibly saw (8) in the crypt jungle. The best news was that I haven't found any non-viable eggs this time. Usually there are a few.

Topping of the tank ahead of the hatching.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I got some new Otociclus affinis from Msjinkzd yesterday and it may just be that they are new but they seem much lighter in color than the fish in the photo 7 posts up from this one, so I think you may be correct the my original 5 are O. Vitattus. But from this point forward I will most likely not know which I am looking at if they do color up some, thanks for your help.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Fry guys all over the place. Litterally. I did locate three non-viable eggs. This is a pretty big hatching. Crossing fingers for most of them to survive.

I'm working on some pics. We'll see how it goes.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

150EH said:


> I got some new Otociclus affinis from Msjinkzd yesterday and it may just be that they are new but they seem much lighter in color than the fish in the photo 7 posts up from this one, so I think you may be correct the my original 5 are O. Vitattus. But from this point forward I will most likely not know which I am looking at if they do color up some, thanks for your help.


Affinis have a different look and are pretty recognizable. Alot of times when pet stores and such get Otos in, they are generically labled as Affinis. Rachael is a great source, so chances are they are true Affinis. You're more than welcome to post a pic if you want.


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## msjinkzd (May 12, 2007)

its also possible they are something else!!  I am always happy to be wrong.


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## CrazyMidwesterner (Oct 19, 2006)

This is encouraging. I have very similiar water parameters so to see you have this success is awesome. I have kept fish that prefer soft water and they survive just fine but its great to see them thrive in that environment.

Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Ok...let's try this and see if they work to get your fry fix....










Mean looking ain't he?









Can you find me?


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

It would be hard for a predator to see that! Cool shots.

You can see through it to the back of the other eye but you can't see any brain, heart, etc.


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## madness (Jul 31, 2011)

Very awesome project and good to see that it is still going well.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Neat pics, thanks for sharing!


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*Update 20-Nov-2011*

Fry guys doing well. Starting to graze over everything. Beginning to feed them now. They are really popping in and out of the Subwassertang wall. Seems to be the perfect addition to a fry tank. 
Here's some shots from today:

Here's one in the wall. Just a good example of the protection it affords.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I'm going Wikipedia to learn about fish inerds, I want to know what the little golden organs are, cool pics.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Schematic drawing of inner anatomy of a teleost (fish). 1 liver, 2 stomach, 3 intestine, 4 heart, 5 swim bladder, 6 kidney, 7 testicle, 8 ureter, 9 efferent duct, 10 urinary bladder, 11 gills

All of the above is property of Wikipedia.

I think the two golden spots in the upper back may be the swim bladders, the article said not all fish have them like fast swimming species, Tuna ,Mackerel, etc, but is some species they are connected with the gills and double as lungs, so that would make sense of there being 2, one for each gill.


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## plecostomouse (Jun 9, 2011)

150EH said:


> I'm going Wikipedia to learn about fish inerds, I want to know what the little golden organs are, cool pics.


same, i see them on my baby bristlenose all the time


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*Update 26-Nov-2011*

Been a few days. Have been stuck at work for the past several days. Some pretty long days. Luckily...the wee ones have been doing fine. They are grazing over everything nicely. Tons of fry all over the place. Coloring up very well.

Found a few more fresh hatchlings today as well.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*Update 29-Nov-2011*

Fry continue to do well. Very active. Turned on the airstone for a few minutes. Here's some shots from today:


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

James are these regulars or zebras?


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

shrimpnmoss said:


> James are these regulars or zebras?


 
These are Vitattus


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

So like how do you sex ottos? I have 3 of them... they never breed


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

sayurasem said:


> So like how do you sex ottos? I have 3 of them... they never breed


The males are smaller and slender. Females will be larger and have a nice roundish belly.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Well....I hate to say this....but....I think my Macrophilus guys....are.....well.....gay! There... I said it!

The ladies are trying so hard to get the boys to get busy but they are just too interested in goofing around with themselves. It's funny and painful to watch at the same time. I think it's time for drastic action. I've given the three musketeer's plenty of time to get their act together. I think it's time to seperate them. If they don't spawn this time, I will remove all but one guy and one gal. That would put me at two Macro tanks but...gotta do what I gotta do right? 

I'm getting ready to order another group of Cocama's as well. They should arrive in the US on Sunday. Hopefully the two guys will have a lady or two to say hi to. LOL


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*Update: 05-Dec-2011*

Daily check on the tanks on the positive side of things. Babes are doing very well. They have been introduced to Zucchini the other day. As of today, one slice is completely gone and they are working over the second really well. Best guesstimate on numbers from this batch is upwards of (50) at the moment.

Also found today were more eggs. The Bacopa area once again appears to be the area of choice with over (20) eggs found there. There are a few that I can see in the crypt jungle.

Turned on the airstone for a few minutes. Will be feeding some algae powder shortly as well.

Pics to follow.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

James you are the Oto Wisperer, too cool and they must have been starving because I can't imagine you would have a single bit of algae.


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## Daximus (Oct 19, 2011)

james0816 said:


> Well....I hate to say this....but....I think my Macrophilus guys....are.....well.....gay! There... I said it!
> 
> The ladies are trying so hard to get the boys to get busy but they are just too interested in goofing around with themselves. It's funny and painful to watch at the same time. I think it's time for drastic action. I've given the three musketeer's plenty of time to get their act together. I think it's time to seperate them.


:hihi:


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## Wingsdlc (Dec 9, 2005)

Every time I stubble upon this thread I am amazed! Really neat stuff you have going on!


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Here's a couple shots from today:

Nomming on a zuc:









And some of the eggs from today:


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Took a bit of a hiatus over the holidays. Let's try to get caught up a bit right quick. About the only thing that I did to the tanks during that time was feed and top off the water. Still have quite a few wee ones in the tank. They definately love zucchini as it barely lasts two days in the tank. There are a couple of juvenilles that I need to move into the holding tank.

The tanks themselves, jungles. Really over grown. I'm in the process of trimming and doing gravel vacs. TDS numbers are a bit on the high side from where I like them. All the CO2 bottles need to be recharged.

Will get all the tanks reset and start the new year out fresh.


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## tbonedeluxe (Mar 10, 2008)

Very cool pics and a really awesome journal about Oto's. 
Thanks. A cool link about these little ones:
http://www.aqualandpetsplus.com/Catfish, Otocinclus.htm


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## madness (Jul 31, 2011)

Any intention to attempt zebra breeding again?'

Did you get females with that order that you got in in December? If not I think that msjinkzd is getting some zebras in soon.


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

I'm glad to see this thread is still alive and I finally got my update :haha:

This is awesome.

-Andrew


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Been a spell since I've udpated this. My apologies. I've kind of been letting things run their course so far through the start of the winter season.

The Vittatus tank has gotten severely overgrown. I started a massive trim on it yesterday. The TDS got pretty high as well. I have removed the HUGE Subwassertang wall and did a small vac of that half of the tank. Had to give it a good shaking out to make sure none of the Oto fry guys were in there. Hopefully they all left. I have submerged in a bowl of water just in case. I'll give the wall a good trimming and get it back in place today. Next will be a thinning of the Crypt jungle. The Bacopa has as well went crazy. There are shoots all over every stem. Almost like this tank went on steroids or something. The funny thing is, I have dosed ferts or refreshed the CO2 in the tank during this run. Quite interesting.

As for the fry, looks to be around (20) or so that may have made it. Hard to get a good count at the moment. A few are big enough to move over to the holding tank now.

I'll get the tank pieced back together and get it back on it's normal routine. It was good to see what would happen by just doing top offs on it.

The Macrosphilus still haven't got their act together. I did a trim on thier tank and put some more plants in there for them. Guys still being distracted with each other. Have not split them up yet even though I keep telling myself I need to. I'm trying to be as patient as possible with them. I'm pretty sure the ladies are losing patience. 

One major goal that I would like to see accomplished this year is to find both O. Flexilis and Mimulus. Of course a Cocama spawn is still on the list, but I have no control on that one.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

The great wall of Sub has crumbled. Wow was there a ton of it! That side of the tank looks so bare now.  All the babes are extremely active after the work done. Zipping all over the place. It's really neat to watch as there are all different sizes of wee ones. I'll give it a couple of days and then I'll do the other half of the tank; the crypt jungle. I noticed one mother crypt has a double spathe under water. Pretty kewl I must say.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Revamp of tank is now complete. Just have to let the dust settle and let things take their course. CO2 recharged and in place. She's a bare tank now.  Looks that way at least. I'll snap a new tank shot tomorrow.

Wee ones seem unphased by all the commotion that was going on around them. A few of them even landed on my hand as I was replanting.


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## Hcancino (Jun 18, 2011)

I just found this and I already read all of it! I have a 60 gallon with just 6 otos I'm hoping will breed. Maybe your journal will bring me luck!


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Thanks...and GL!


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*Update 25-Jan-2012*

Well I got a nice little surprise today. Got home and checked on things and look what we found:



















And even one on the glass:









I didn't originally notice them. I went to check on the tank and noticed that the MM that I had "attempted" to plant was gone. When I got to looking around, that's when I found the first eggs.

It's good to see that all the hacking that I did to this tank had no effect. I was going to replant the MM and adust the airstone back but if the spawn is ongoing, I don't want to interupt it any more than I already did.

Here is the tank after the hack. Notice the wall of Subwassertang is soooooo small now.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*Update 27-Jan-2012*

Hatching as expected occured yesterday. Wiggle waggles all over the place. Here's a couple shots:










Something about this one I really like.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Another one to not get my hopes up, but I went down to go on the great snail hunt and I walked in on spawn activity from the Macrosphilus. We've been down this road before but I took a break from the hunt to give them their space. Let's see if the boys can get their act together. We'll see where it leads. {crosses fingers}


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*Update 02-Feb-2012*

All looking good with the Vittatus. Looks to be about another (20) or fry guys so far. This group is grazing like little piggies.  The other Juvies continue to do well. There isn't alot of cover in the tank since the big trim so it's dog-eat-dog when it comes to finding a leaf to sit on. They are encroaching on the adults area. Will be moving them soon to a holding tank to finish growing out.

I think I'm going to change tanks around. Since I can't seem to find Flexilis or Mimulus ....... yet, I think I'll move the juvies over there where there is a ton to munch on.

As for the Macro's, no dice...again.


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## Rockhoe14er (Jan 19, 2011)

wow great news james i hope to buy some of you're otto's this time


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*Update: 07-Feb-2012*

Vittatus tank is way overcrowded at the moment. Counted (33) young fry guys yesterday. Survivor rates are going up. That's a great sign. All of them except for (6) where on two slices of zucchini. I need to get the older juvies out. Hopefully be able to work on that today some. All in all, there are somewhere around (60) Otos in this tank! The older ones are just about ready to find new homes. Will be doing a water change in the tank today.

Going to try and do some scaping in the Macrosphilus tank. See if I can change things around just a bit to see if it will help. I'm doing everything I can not to seperate the boys but I just don't feel that's going to be possible.


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## kwheeler91 (May 26, 2009)

Let me know if you plan on shipping the older ones. I need to add some to my group and its hard to find healthy otos round these parts.


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## perezdr (Jan 25, 2012)

Subscribing...this is too cute!


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

What are you putting in the water down there, you have a serious breeding pair of Oto's!


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

150EH said:


> What are you putting in the water down there, you have a serious breeding pair of Oto's!


lol. Just a few. Now if I can just get the Macros and Cocama's to follow suit. But we're workin on it.

Started moving some of the older juvies out last night into the new holding tank. I think they are in hog heaven with all the diatoms in the new tank. I just moved over one small batch to see how they were going to do. As of this morning, all were just fine when the lights came on. Will move over another group this evening and that should take care of the older ones.

The younger fry continue to do very well. One piece of zuc was gone yesterday and the other piece was in a black out conidition. There were that many covering it. I really should keep a camera down there for times like this.  Will put in fresh pieces today.

I delayed the water change since I was catching the fry. Will do that once all the bigger juvies have been relocated.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

kwheeler91 said:


> Let me know if you plan on shipping the older ones. I need to add some to my group and its hard to find healthy otos round these parts.


 
Stay tuned....


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

This round of Oto rodeo is complete. All the juvies are now out of the breeding tank and in the holding tank. Some were pretty easy to get. Others were just plain stubborn. It'll be about another two weeks and they will be able to find good homes.

Prepping fresh zucchini for both tanks. Will have to recharge the CO2 as well but that will be a weekend project.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*Update: 14-Feb-2012*

Approaching the one month mark for the latest arrivals and all is just perfect. Today I visibly counted (37) babes in the tank. Fat and happy. Zucchini's don't stand a chance. I'm going to start adding an additional slice in there just to ensure everyone partakes...I.e ... the adults. 

Over in the holding tank, the babes there are doing well too. Think I will hold on to these guys til the end of the month and then find them some homes.


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## VeeSe (Apr 16, 2011)

Man, my guys barely touch the zucchini I put in there... 6 otos and they can't finish a slice in 3 days.... glad to see your fry are doing well!


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*Update 05-Mar-2012*

Babes have done wonderfully and continue to grow rapidly. Looks like I will have to start moving this batch over next week at the rate they are going. The tank is literally swarming with activity. I'm going to leave one additional male in the tank this time. Let's face it, papa Oto is a bit old now but still having fun. ;P

20% water change with mild gravel vac in all tanks. Will be recharging the CO2 today and adding fresh zucchini. 

I have finally decided to split up the Macros. I've been saying it for a long time but giong to pull the trigger this time. It will probably be tomorrow when I get around to it. The ladies are just so plump and they are really trying to keep the guys' attention.  Maybe with one gentleman in the tank, things will change.

Nothing new on the Cocama front. They remain active and doing well. Just no sign of a spawn. I need to tweak the scape in their tank just a bit too.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

awesome spawning. congrats 
(subscribed btw)

how many otos do you have by now? im gonna be stocking in about 6 months and would love to buy captive bred stock if youll be selling.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Six months is a ways out. 

Right now I will have just under (40) coming available in a couple of weeks.


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## Rockhoe14er (Jan 19, 2011)

james0816 said:


> Six months is a ways out.
> 
> Right now I will have just under (40) coming available in a couple of weeks.


James has some amazing otto's i just got some and they are sooo much healthier than any otto i've ever purchased before. Anyone to get these will be really lucky.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

james0816 said:


> Six months is a ways out.
> 
> Right now I will have just under (40) coming available in a couple of weeks.


i know; cant hurt to express my interest though. 
how old are your otos at sale anyway?



Rockhoe14er said:


> James has some amazing otto's i just got some and they are sooo much healthier than any otto i've ever purchased before. Anyone to get these will be really lucky.


im not surprised. natural selection works well. offspring that are cannot adapt to aquarium conditions are immediately rooted out. and the others grow up adapted to an aquarium, as opposed to wild caught ones, and have a much better chance to thrive in such conditions.
the same thing is seen in the reptile trade. with most species, CB (captive bred) individuals are much healthier, and of more lax disposition then WC (wild caught) individuals, even the first generation in.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Makes perfect sense. In the wild a relaxed fish is dinner so that trait gets selected out. In our relatively safe captive environments the opposite will happen.


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## ilovelucy (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm interested in otos!!


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*Update 06-Mar-2012*

Came home to a pleasant and very unexpected surprise today. No...nothing with the Cocama's. 

While checking in on the juvie Vittatus, I found a wiggler on the front glass. Closer look and I found a total of (4)! Did not expect this at all. There were no tell tale signs and the tank has been too active for a viable spawn. I never saw any eggs either. Which such a small amount of fry, this spawn had to be very small. A lead up to a bigger one in the coming days. Kewless.

Checked in on the Macros and all seem to be doing well. I need to get a few more after splitting up the boys and putting them in a different tank. Might just get a female and throw in there with them so they don't feel too left out.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Been a spell since I've updated. Time for the younguns to move out.  In the process of moving them and finding new homes. Did a partial trim on their tank. Think I overly hacked the aquatic Kudzoo (Subwassertang). I didn't feel like removing the wall this time to trim it. It's not too bad but.....

Ladies are showing signs that they are ready but there is too much activity in the tank with the wee ones. I'm expecting a new spawn any day now.

Unfortunately, nothing new to report on the Cocama's or Macrosphilus.

O. Flexilis and O. Mimulus are still on me hit list so if anyone has any leads, certainly drop me a line.


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## carpalstunna (Mar 22, 2012)

wow this great!! I wish mine would breed. Im definitely interested when its time for them to find a new home. I need more!!!!


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Well....you're in luck as now is the time.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

james0816 said:


> Been a spell since I've updated. Time for the younguns to move out.  In the process of moving them and finding new homes. Did a partial trim on their tank. Think I overly hacked the aquatic Kudzoo (Subwassertang). I didn't feel like removing the wall this time to trim it. It's not too bad but.....


pics or it never happened
some of those glorious breeders of yours would be nice too, lol


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Pics os what? The wee ones? The trim? Not done with that part as yet but i'll snap some tomorrow.


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

^wee one  about an inch long


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Nice shot! Looks like they will be nice and comfy there. Glad they are doing well for ya.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

James I'm sorry to highjack your thread but I want to ask you about my Oto, I think it's a Otocinclus vitattus but it's so fat and on top of that it has a big bump like a belly button near the bottom of it stomach? Here a small photo and a link to the original photo which is much larger, what do you think?


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Mercy that's a big belly! She'll either drop them or reabsorb the unfertilized eggs if there is no mating. Another slight possibility is that the eggs continue develop and increase in mass which would cause health issues and ultimately death.


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## Cyianara69 (Mar 26, 2012)

james0816 said:


> Been a spell since I've updated. Time for the younguns to move out.  In the process of moving them and finding new homes. Did a partial trim on their tank.


I'd be interested in some if you still got a few that need homes ... I'm not sure where you are in VA, but if you are in the NOVA .... let me know.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

james0816 said:


> Mercy that's a big belly! She'll either drop them or reabsorb the unfertilized eggs if there is no mating. Another slight possibility is that the eggs continue develop and increase in mass which would cause health issues and ultimately death.


I have some massively egg bound danios that have been that way for months and seem to be OK so far.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Cyianara69 said:


> I'd be interested in some if you still got a few that need homes ... I'm not sure where you are in VA, but if you are in the NOVA .... let me know.


 
Drop me a PM


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

james0816 said:


> Mercy that's a big belly! She'll either drop them or reabsorb the unfertilized eggs if there is no mating. Another slight possibility is that the eggs continue develop and increase in mass which would cause health issues and ultimately death.


Thanks for the reply, I have a few fatty's like her but I'm sure there are some males or at least I think they are, they are small and look as if the never grew any over the past year. I accidentally added some cold water (70 degrees) to the tank yesterday so maybe that will trigger a spawn. You have always done well in breeding Oto's what's the secret?


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

150EH said:


> You have always done well in breeding Oto's what's the secret?


Ancient chinese secret.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*Update: 13-May-2012*

Good news! Good news!

Routine maintence today in all the tanks. Using my typical method of a drip line to add the water back into the tanks one gallon at a time. Just went down to check the jugs and replace the empties. A look in the Macrosphilus tank and ..... drum roll please ..... Houston ... we have a spawn in progress!! YaY!:eek5:

The bad part though, most of the eggs I saw are not viable.  Very typical with a first spawn though. Finally a break through for these guys. Now all eyes are on these guys to see the progression. Get the routine down and hopefully we'll be good to go.


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

awesome  now if only the cocama would take a hint and get busy too


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## jellie (Jan 31, 2010)

Hey! Congrats James! That's infamous.


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## binako (Aug 8, 2011)

Ahh, what a great thread.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*Update: 14-May-2012*

Quick check of the Macro tank and I was only able to find (3) eggs. I snapped a few pics but none turned out. After analyzing the pics, I found that one eggs is non viable even though by eye it looked good. Wonder what happened to the other eggs?

Light bulb <insert voice of Gru here> .... it dawned on me ... I have (3) Pygmy Cories in this tank to. Know how Cories will eat their own eggs .... I'm pretty sure they would eat others to if they find them. Hmmmmmm ... might be time for a relocation project for them guys.

I'm getting ready to go back down there and give it one more glance over before the lights go out.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

No eggs or fry were found yesterday. Will continue to monitor for future developments.


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## jellie (Jan 31, 2010)

I'll take pygmy cories. LoL

Have those ever spawned for you at all?


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*Update 26-Oct-2012*

I always love present surprises.

Let's back up and then get back up to speed. It's been a very long time since I've updated my journal. Got busy with work and such I just haven't really done much with my tanks. They are pretty much just "surviving". I really let them go and am ashamed of myself. I haven't noticed any new spawning during the very brief moments I get down to the fish room to feed and top off. Heck..I haven't even done any water changes <ducks for cover>. And to be completely honest....I haven't a clue the last time I did a water change. Just feedings and top offs. About all I had time for. I barely have enough time to get on the puter from time to time.

Fast forward to today. Tired of seeing these tanks in their current conditions, I decided to take a stand and get some better time management going. I'm starting with my high tech tanks. The first one I started yesterday. The plan was to pull all the plants, scrape the glass and get rid of all the <blankety blank blank> duckweed.

Today, I finished pulling the plants. Netted out about 98% of the duckweed. I then fabricated a duckweed filter using a small powerhead. I put the filter in the tank and turned it.

As I was watching it do its thing, I saw something swim up and lite on the front glass. Upon further observation...it's a wiggler! WOW and KEWL at the same time. Then I saw another on the side glass. I decided to remove the filter and then put a sponge over the HOB intake. I wound up counting (4) wigglers in the tank. I parent group is (5) and they are still rather young which surprises me. I wouldn't have thought they would be ready to breed yet.

This particular tank wasn't even a planned breeder tank. It was really more of a test tank for Otos as the pH is extremely low (<6). They are Vittatus by the way.

So now, I need to get the water cleared up again and get the plants put back in.

I'm really limited on time but will try and keep this more update and I apologize for all those that have been following and not getting their fix with updates.

Annnnnnnd....if people are still following......I am still looking for O. flexilis and O. mimulus.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Now I really feel bad. I just went and installed the pre-filter to protect the fry. Started looking around and found a newbie. Not more than 24hrs old! Crap! Now I'm wondering if I washed away any eggs and/or other babes when I rinsed off all the plants. Ding Dang It!


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## fishboy199413 (Jan 20, 2010)

Nice work Sometimes all it takes is neglect.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

ive learned not to beat myself up over the losses of a handful of fry here and there. in nature only 2 would survive to reproduce on average, a replacement for each parent. 
be happy that you have at least 1 new fry, not upset that you might have maybe had more.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*Update 30-Oct-2012*

Now that the dust and Superstorm Sandy have cleared, I looked in the "other" tank today and was able to find (3) wigglers out and about. Didn't know if they would make it or not since I broke the tank down and scrubbed down all the glass. Active little buggers I must say. I'm not doing anything special in feeding these fry guys. Being a high tech tank, I have to keep the balance. So far, they are doing well.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*Update 04-Nov-2012*

Went to do a water change on the new tank today and found (2) older wigglers and (7) new wigglers on the glass. Never found the eggs. I think the plant arrangement in the tank will make it hard to find the eggs. There are only two broad leaf varieties in there. I will have to look harder from now on.  Proceding with the water changes on the breeders and go from there.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

you must have magic water to have a constant supply of oto fry.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*Update 08-Dec-2012*

Check of the tanks today and discovered a mini spawn in the main breeder. I didn't look thoroughly but managed to count (8) viable eggs and (1) non viable one. It was actually the non viable egg that caught my attention as it is a white ball sitting on the substrate.

This comes on the heels of a major rescape of that particular tank. Its part of my de-duckweed and de-snailification process. I completely removed every plant and ensured they were snail free, scraped the glass and removed the moss wall. I hadn't put the moss wall back in as yet and is on the schedule for today.

So today will be a water change, CO2 change and placing the Subwassertang wall back in preparation of the hatching.


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## danakin (Jun 8, 2007)

Congrats on the spawn!


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*Update 09-Dec-2012*

And hatching has begun. Found (3) wigglers so far. Several more eggs left to hatch. This will be a bit of a challenge to keep since the scrubbing of the tank. Have the food prepped and ready. Need to get past the 48hr mark.


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

Congrats on this awesome process. You've been very lucky! 

Just took an hour reading through this. I'm very inspired! 


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Thank you very much. It's been a fun little project.


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

I bet! So having done it, what would you say are the space requirements of ottos? Do they really shoal in groups larger than 3-4?


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Definately a social bunch and wouldn't recommend a group of less than three. To see them in their splendor, I would say no less than five. But that will depend on tank size and such.

Most of my tanks are small since they also double as invert tanks. I try to keep five in each tank. The only exception is the O. macrospilus. Only a group of three right now while working on them.

I had a lone female Vittatus sitting in one tank by herself and she didn't do much other than stay in spot generally. I finally moved in some juvies and she just sparked right up.

I've got a couple of videos that show how they are in big groups. Constantly on the move.


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

Very nice. Thanks for the knowledge. What's the smallest tank you've got them in?


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## zoragen (Nov 3, 2009)

I want more ottos!!! I have 3 in my 20gal L (along w/ 10 threadfin & dwarf rainbows).

So a 6 gal would probably be too small for 3?


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Smallest tank I keep them in is a 10g.

Zoragen, if you don't have any other fishies in there, the 6g should be ok. A bit small for my liking but otherwise ok.


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## zoragen (Nov 3, 2009)

The 6 gal is empty but I don't want to cram the little cuties into too small of a space.

I love those guys

sigh.....I'll wait till I get another tank. 

Which means I'll have to get rid of some books to make room:biggrin:

I think the 6 gal is going to become a snail (nerite) & java fern tank - super simple.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*Update - 11-Dec-2012*

Spotted (10) wigglers yesterday. Started introducing prepared foods for them. Tank isn't a very thick jungle as yet so used a dosing dropper to target spot where I placed the powder.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Everyone likes pictures of fry guys right? Wee ones are starting to venture around the tank more.


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

So cute. How do you get the shots?


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

I just use a regular point and click Olympus Stylus.

Wife has a DSLR but I cannot figure out how to get any good macro shots with it.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*Update 16-Dec-2012*

Found (10) wiggle waggles this morning. All still doing fine and coloring up nicely. Very active bunch. Really working the tank over good.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*Update 17-Dec-2012*

Wee ones continue to progess very well and remain very active. Water change on the tank and added a couple slices of zucchini. Being how active they are, I went ahead and fed early to keep them grazing.

On a disgruntled note, I'm still finding pond snails in the main tank. Grrrrr. Just shows how resiliant they are. One here and there but managable. I squish when I find them. What's worse is that I cannot put the moss wall back in until I know they are gone. That would provide them a big hidey spot which of course I don't want.

And on a positive note, I did find a baby green shrimp in there this morning as well. Maybe a good sign for them as well.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*Update 19-Dec-2012*

All is well in Oto land. Wee ones have discovered just how good zucchini is.  Still grazing nicely.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*Update 30-Dec-2012*

All babes present and accounted for. Colored up very nicely and remain extremely active. These guys took a little longer to hit the zucchini but now have learned its a good nummy num. They aren't so skittish now when I walk by as well. Scrapped some GSA off the front glass and will be recharging the CO2 tomorrow. Think it may be safe (snail wise) to but the Subwassertang wall back into place.


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

Pics when you do the wall 


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*Update 31-Dec-2012*

Might by my last update for 2012....we'll see. 

Just went down to dose the ferts in the tanks today and walked in on a potential spawn. Crap! I walked past a breeder to get to another tank and I was opening the lid, I caught the two doing the dance in the tank. I very carefully and slowly dosed both of those tanks and then low crawled away from that area. 

Good thing I don't have a live cam on that tank like I planned. Woulda been funny to see that. 

Finished dosing and started a little mainenance on the Cocama tank. There's a male and a female hanging out together. This tank is in dissarray as I'm doing a big TDS clearing and rescaping. But I haven't noticed a male and female hanging out in a while. My only problem with these guys is that I have (6) guys to (1) lady. I need to get a couple more gals in here.


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## Loachutus (Aug 27, 2010)

> Finished dosing and started a little mainenance on the Cocama tank. There's a male and a female hanging out together. This tank is in dissarray as I'm doing a big TDS clearing and rescaping. But I haven't noticed a male and female hanging out in a while. My only problem with these guys is that I have (6) guys to (1) lady. I need to get a couple more gals in here.


Have you tried to get just females from any fish sellers?


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Loachutus said:


> Have you tried to get just females from any fish sellers?


I've asked a few different people. Hard to sex them when young.


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## Ben. (Mar 29, 2011)

Glad someone's making progress on breeding these fish!


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Just went down and did a stealth peek in on the tank and confirmed that it was in deed a spawn. I could only see the Bacopa area and there are quite a few eggs in there. I'll get a better look tomorrow and see what's in the whole tank. Great way to end and begin a year.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*Update 01-Jan-2013*

Happy New Year!

Went and checked on the spawn from yesterday. Pretty nice numbers. I found a total of (51) eggs this morning best I could tell. Pretty much even split between the Bacopa and Crypt jungle this time with 23 and 26 respectively. Found (2) isolated on a different plant.

Here's a couple shots of the new (not quite ready) arrivals:


















And here's a shot of one of the older siblings:









Guess it will be a bit longer before I put the Sub wall back in.


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## Sake (Mar 30, 2012)

> Subwassertang wall back into place.


I wanna see! Considering it's the only moss I can grow I've been debating on doing a wall. I would love to see how it looks.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Sake said:


> I wanna see! Considering it's the only moss I can grow I've been debating on doing a wall. I would love to see how it looks.


Here's an older tank shot that shows the way. Back left corner.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1426517&postcount=39


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*Update 02-Jan-2013*

And we have a hatching today. A double hatching actually. The Otos hatched out and a mama green shrimp also hatched her young uns.

I was able to visibly count (29) newly hatched fry guys. Here's a couple of shots for ya:


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*Update 03-Jan-2013*

Got home a bit late today but was able to get a quick check of the tank before the lights went out. I was able to find (41) wigglers during my quick scan. I went and began feeding as well. Some of these guys look like they are gonna grow pretty fast by the size of them. Adding new zucchini as well for the others.

Snapped some pics but they are all pretty crappy. Didn't get the opportunity to do a do over today.

One interesting thing going on with the tank now is the appearance of BBA. Not really sure why this has cropped up as the lighting, ferts and CO2 haven't changed. Have to think on this one for a bit.


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

Overpopulation or overfeeding perhaps?


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## Elppan (Aug 21, 2012)

This is so cool. I hope to see more people able to breed little ottos, they are some of my favorite fish, I refer to mine as little algae sharks. 

Sent from my phone, in the land of magical unicorns and rainbows!


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## zoragen (Nov 3, 2009)

Congrats! They are so cute:biggrin:


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*Update 10-Jan-2013*

So unfortunately, I regressed a little with this lastest batch. I made a rookie mistake but was a good learning experience to add more data. Being that the spawn was mid week, I didn't do a water change but instead just made sure the tank was topped off. I had a good hatch out and at day two, I was able to count over 40 wigglers. The next day, the numbers diminished greatly with just under (20) being visible and found a few wee ones on the substrate that had passed. I immediately suspected something wrong with the tank and did the water change then.

As of today, I'm still able to visibly count around (12) wigglers. The new guys were really actively grazing yesterday when I checked them. The juvies are still do really well and continue to grow nicely. They are just about ready to move over to the holding tank.

Lesson learned. Always so a fresh water change prior to hatching.

Will have to do some plant prunning in the tank this weekend as well.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*Update: 15-Jan-2013*

Question: How do you make short work of a planned tank maintenance day? 
Answer: Walk in on a spawn in progress!

Soon as I walked into the fish room to grab some jugs to fill, I caught one of the male Otos swimming off. Closer look at the tank and found a bunch of eggs in the Bacopa area. I immediately grabbed up the jugs and left the room.

I'll have to check my notes, but I think this is the first time I've had (3) spawns this close together. Now...will go back to my normal deal of a water change before they hatch which will be tomorrow afternoon.


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## Sake (Mar 30, 2012)

Wow nice! I can't believe how lucky you are.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Nice, but when are you going to tell us the secret.


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

He detailed exactly how he does everything. 

I don't know what more of a secret he could divulge. Read the whole thing! Worth the hour.


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## skystrife (Feb 20, 2010)

I love following this.

Congrats on the back-to-back spawns!


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

MABJ said:


> He detailed exactly how he does everything.
> 
> I don't know what more of a secret he could divulge. Read the whole thing! Worth the hour.


It's a joke bone head, plus the comment was not directed at you so it's pretty presumptuous to reply for someone else and on their thread with a comment like that?


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## Sake (Mar 30, 2012)

Bone head huh? All he was trying to do is help out and that's how you respond? Tell the truth I didn't take it as a joke either, internet is horrible for humor just doesn't carry it across right. I think bone head is a bit strong I'd of just said "Oh I was just joking about" instead of resorting to that. Of course the bone head comment could be a joke to


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

I have a hard time with humor as well on the Internet. 

Call it what you will -- sorry if I offended you by suggesting you read through a good read. I could read this 4X and get new info every time. 

When people ask a question I feel I can answer, I respond. 

No offense intended.


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## Sake (Mar 30, 2012)

MABJ said:


> I have a hard time with humor as well on the Internet.
> 
> Call it what you will -- sorry if I offended you by suggesting you read through a good read. I could read this 4X and get new info every time.
> 
> ...


Leave it to you to annoy people


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

Shut up bone head


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

lol...thanks all.

After all this, I think I have unlocked the secret......Plan to do maintenance on the tank! Some how they always seem to know when I plan to go in and trim the plants. Then, they will start spawing which prevents me touching the tank. 

In all honesty though, I really haven't been able to my finger on it as yet. A wide variety of parameters and conditions have been tested thus far and have yielded spawns. I've even got spawns in my holding tank. Maybe it's something in the water itself that I can not test for. :icon_ques



150EH said:


> Nice, but when are you going to tell us the secret.


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## Elppan (Aug 21, 2012)

james0816 said:


> lol...thanks all.
> 
> After all this, I think I have unlocked the secret......Plan to do maintenance on the tank! Some how they always seem to know when I plan to go in and trim the plants. Then, they will start spawing which prevents me touching the tank.
> 
> In all honesty though, I really haven't been able to my finger on it as yet. A wide variety of parameters and conditions have been tested thus far and have yielded spawns. I've even got spawns in my holding tank. Maybe it's something in the water itself that I can not test for. :icon_ques


Ohhhh so you roofie your fish 

Sent from my phone, in the land of magical unicorns and rainbows!


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## Captivate05 (Feb 23, 2010)

Subscribing


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## kwheeler91 (May 26, 2009)

Is their a particular set of parameters that you are finding greater success with? Any luck with the zebras? Sorry if these have been answered I havent followed the thread to closely.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

The majority of the spawns have come from the main breeder. This is the tank where I have done most of my experimenting on. I would say on average, the typical parms for this tank would be 74temp, 7.2-7.4 pH, GH/KH ~ 4 and TDS around 120.

Other notables on this tank are that I do use DIY CO2 and still use the PMDD version of fert dosing.

My most surprising spawn came in the tank where I use Safe-T-Sorb as a substrate. Water is very acidic at ~ 5.5. This particular tank gets a higher concentration of CO2 and EI fert dosing. This tank also sits in the upper 70s for temp.

One note that I have observed though is crowding. When the tank is too populus with shrimp and/or Otos, the spawning decreased greatly. I attribute this to too much activity in the tank.



kwheeler91 said:


> Is their a particular set of parameters that you are finding greater success with? Any luck with the zebras? Sorry if these have been answered I havent followed the thread to closely.


Nothing yet to report on the Zebra's. I have a couple of ladies getting ready to join the project so hopefully, with the better ratio, I can get something started there.

Macros are still just not with the program. These boys seem to be completely clueless when the lady is ready. I'm actually getting ready to replace them.


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## kwheeler91 (May 26, 2009)

I got caught up on your thread and man you have an oto factory. Too bad about the macros, Hopefully you will have better luck with the zebras.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*Update 17-Jan-2013*

And we have a hatching today.

Went down last night and did the water change right before the lights went out. Came home today and was able to visibly count (19) new wigglers lounging around. Took my usual photos and will check them out when I get back from the gym. There was one shot I hope turned out. There was a fry guy from each of the three spawns right next to each other. Looked pretty kewl.


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

Very nice. I'm amazed at how good you are at counting.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

MABJ said:


> Very nice. I'm amazed at how good you are at counting.


lol...it sure ain't easy that's for sure. I've gotten used to knowing what I'm looking for when they are only a couple days old.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*Update 18-Jan-2013*

Count goes up today. Saw (23) new wigglers on the glass. Trying something a little different this time around. I went ahead and administered the first powder feeding a day early. Wondering if by chance this may help with getting better results. If anything, the others in the tank will have lots to graze on. 

Got lucky as well with the water change. With all the rain we have had lately, our well water is turning to the brown side. I filled all the jugs up the other day so have plenty of good water to conduct all other WCs tomorrow as planned.

Now for the bad news. The "money" shot from yesterday was bad.  Man I wished that would have turned out.


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## CPDzeke (Jan 4, 2013)

Sorry for late question, but what is the jello method for co2?


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*Update 10-Mar-2013*

I'm thoroughly convinced now that my fishy friends have ESP.

Why you ask? Well simple....today I had planned to go in and trim the main breeder, do a good vac and replant the Sub wall. Guess what? Yep...a spawn in progress. 

I'd really like to know how they do it? And it was random this time as I just this morning decided to do the work on the tank. Unlike before where I would pick a date. Too funny.

I didn't bother trying to count eggs yet since it's in progress. The Bacopa area seems to be the point of focus right now.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

CPDzeke said:


> Sorry for late question, but what is the jello method for co2?


My apologies...I never answered this. You use jell-o to lock in the sugar. As it dissolves, it releases more sugar to the yeast. Makes the process last longer and more stable.


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## madness (Jul 31, 2011)

Amazing work, as always.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Thanks kindly.

Late check on things last night before lights out and all is well. I didn't stay too long so I didn't count eggs as yet. Just more of an observation at this point. I'm thinking this may have been a spawn from the young female in the tank. I found (1) egg on the front glass and (2) on the back. This is highly unusual which makes me believe it is the young one.

Another interesting note in regards to the plants. This will be another spawn where there are very minimal to no eggs located on the Acmella repens or Ludwigia atlantis. Very interesting and not sure why. That area of the tank was a the #2 egg area early on. It has become #3 now behind the Bacopa monnieri and Crypt jungle respectively. I think I will pull those two plants out and try to score some L. ovalis to replace them.

After this batch grows up, I will need to thin out the Crypts again and at that point I will replace (or put back in that is) the Sub wall. That's a big fry trap that's missing. I may just attempt to put it in today, but don't think I'll be able to squeeze the time in to do so.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*Update 14-Mar-2013*

Much bigger spawn than I thought. I managed to count (48) wigglers yesterday right before the lights went out. I would say a good 80% of them are in and around the Bacopa area and mostly all wee ones are on the glass. This is another unusual aspect for this batch. Now normally they all eventually migrate to the glass, but it usually takes some time. It's more common to find them staying on the plants for the first couple of days. Interesting.


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## toksyn (Aug 15, 2011)

I really, really envy your success . Nice work!


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Thank you much. Glad I can share it with everyone.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*Update 17-Mar-2013*

Wasn't finding very many wee ones in the tank so I started questioning my food availability for them. I decided I needed to move some of the Green shrimp out of the tank. Might have turned out to be a good decision as there were a lot more in there than I thought. Pulled out a good 30+ small ones out of there. Might shoot for more today or tomorrow to be safe.

As I was rumaging through the plants, I would stir up the Oto fry and the good news is that there are still good numbers alive in there. Was funny watching them swarm out of the crypts as I used a bamboo skewer to help flush out the shrimp. 

Mixed up the first batch of powder feed and fed accordingly. Gave the big areas a nice coating.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*Update 24-Mar-2013*

Time for some drastic action in the main breeder. Algae has really set in. I've always had a little bit of BBA but it has not really bothered me. Now, hair algae has set in and grow rampant. I had to take action even with the wee ones in the tank. I'm pulling out all the plants and getting rid of the most infected leaves. The hard plant will be the Littorella uniflora. Will have to very carefully rub it off so as to not damage the plant.

I just removed all the crypts and I found all the wee ones. Counted just over (20). Yay! Good batch even though still not 50%. Real test will be to see how they do with this tank maintenance. It's gonna be a big hit. Will also be gravel vac'ing to get the TDS down as well. I will also need to scrape the glass for the BBA but will leave the back alone for now. Will just have to provide plenty of powder food for now until things can build back up.

Pulling even more shrimp out as well. That will lighten the load of this tank considerably. Two ladies are ready to pop so need to get things back in order for them.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Man did I stir up a hornet's nest. 

All the plants are now out of the tank. There are Oto's and shrimp swimming all over the place. It's real funny to watch as an adult shrimp will settle somewhere and out of the blue a baby Oto will swim right into it. Sometimes even landing on the shrimp. It only lasts for just about a second but pretty funny to see an Oto on a shrimp. I snapped a couple of blurry pics but might post them anyway.

The wee Otos are just litterally working over every inch of the tank. The substrate looks like someone kicked over an ant hill.

Have all the plants cleaned and ready to go back in. Now just have to wait to vac out more of the substrate. Long process but hopefully be back to normall in a few hours.


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

If you've stirred up substrate, you may want to dose an antibiotic.


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## thelub (Jan 4, 2013)

Lots of good stuff here. Thank you for sharing your experiences breeding otos. I need to test my water hardness to see if I can encourage mine to start breeding.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

You're most welcome and thanks for reading.


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## JasterMake (Mar 21, 2013)

Just wanted to say thanks. I noticed one of my ottos looking quite large and the pictures in your thread helped diagnose the problem. Wink wink. 

So after reading this thread I took your advice.

I trimmed everything that needed trimming. Removed unwanted plants and I am planing a water change and maintenance for tomorrow. In an attempt to encourage breeding even more I am planning the water change for 5pm exactly. 

I set out a bucket because it is raining here and hopefully I can collect enough water to do a decent water change.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*update 08-Apr-2013*

well i'll be........

working in another breeder now. tear out half the tank. get a good gravel vac going. while waiting for the dust to clear...what do i spy...but a little fry...one fry, two fry, three fry...four....got six right now and hope i count more. 

now i wonder if i sucked any up? dont think so as its a deep vac but will double check to make sure.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*update 09-Apr-2013*

just finished uprooting the rest of the plants. was ablt to count (7) wiggy waggies today. good deal. but....they are only a few days old and undergoing a major change already.

now i know what ur thinking...why keep doing it? well, since the tank was already tore up, i may as well finish the job. 

i have one more vac to do and then i'll trim and replant. new water is slowly being added to help prevent a drastic swing for the wee ones.

active buggers too. they kept landing on my hand while i was vacing.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

correction...(15) now!


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## iLOVEnanos (Jun 6, 2013)

Just read though everything! How cool! Any updates?


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

I just read this entire thread, it's a great read! You've done extremely well over the years. Pretty cool breeding project you've turned this into! I'm definitely subscribing to this thread.


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