# African dwarf frog breathing problem



## GobyWan (May 10, 2018)

I kept a m & f pair for around 5years in my community 29gallon, they're lovely little things  

Tank has about 2 inches of space from top of water to hood so never really noticed any problems with constantly up and down, although sometimes they'd sit at the top on one of my plants with their little heads popping out having a good 'breathe'! 

What temp is the tank at? Mine was pretty much always between 24-25c, sorry uk temps, 75-77f I think for US.


----------



## waterblossom (Jun 19, 2018)

GobyWan said:


> I kept a m & f pair for around 5years in my community 29gallon, they're lovely little things
> 
> Tank has about 2 inches of space from top of water to hood so never really noticed any problems with constantly up and down, although sometimes they'd sit at the top on one of my plants with their little heads popping out having a good 'breathe'!
> 
> What temp is the tank at? Mine was pretty much always between 24-25c, sorry uk temps, 75-77f I think for US.


Awesome!  

I just caught one of my frogs 'burbling' for the first time, just floating at the top of the water with its nose sticking out! Super cute  

I'm not sure if the constant up and down is because the frog isn't getting enough air, because I do notice they sometimes do that as well when I have the lid off. It's just something that I happened to notice when the tank cover was on and logically I thought maybe there wasnt enough air or that there wasnt enough circulation above the surface of the water because I fit my lid quite tight around the top of my tank. 

My temp right now is around 80F so around 26-27C. It's a little high for my liking but it's pretty hot where I live and I'm having a hard time finding solutions to lower temp permanently.


----------



## GobyWan (May 10, 2018)

Aah how sweet, they're brilliant to watch, really amusing little beasties! 

It might well be the heat, I'm no expert though! Would keep the airstone going. Definitely worth leaving tank lid up a bit when you're around though and maybe even pointing a fan in that direction to try and cool it a little. 
I've been having to do that recently as we've had a heat wave for weeks here in UK and my temp's been about the same as yours, did the same when I had the frogs and was pretty warm in the summer months (but never got quite as warm as it has recently!). Never had any jumping out thank god! 

Have you got any largish plants they could 'perch' on to have a good breathe if they need it? Mine obviously had to swim further up to get to the air than yours do so was prob just easier for them if feeling a bit lazy! But might be worth a try!


----------



## waterblossom (Jun 19, 2018)

GobyWan said:


> Aah how sweet, they're brilliant to watch, really amusing little beasties!
> 
> It might well be the heat, I'm no expert though! Would keep the airstone going. Definitely worth leaving tank lid up a bit when you're around though and maybe even pointing a fan in that direction to try and cool it a little.
> I've been having to do that recently as we've had a heat wave for weeks here in UK and my temp's been about the same as yours, did the same when I had the frogs and was pretty warm in the summer months (but never got quite as warm as it has recently!). Never had any jumping out thank god!
> ...


Yes indeed! So excited to watch them grow 

You may be right! It probably is the heat  I try to leave the tank lid up as much as I can and only close it when I'm about to go to bed. I'm just a little worried about overnight. Last night I propped the lid open about 1/4'' just in case and I might continue doing that from now on until it gets cooler. 

A fan is a good idea! I don't have one though so I'd probably have to buy one. Do you find that there's a lot of evaporation going on with the fan? Because of the heat, I noticed the water evaporates pretty quick on it's own. I'll probably have to do RO water top offs. But good thing you didn't have any jumpers!  

I don't have any large plants unfortunately. :/ I do have some stem plants in the back (hydrocotyle japan) but they don't reach near the top. I am looking into getting more plants eventually! If they can perch closer to the top of the tank, I'm worried that they might be able to jump out more easily but you said yours havent jumped yet so I'm hopeful!


----------



## GobyWan (May 10, 2018)

I don't notice much more evaporation with the fan, it's more the heat like you say. 
I tend to up my water changes to every 5days or so though when the tank is so warm. Always think the waste from fish, snails and food might cook a little more than usual! 

I've only got a couple of small fans (also keep a chinchilla so he gets very warm bless him, one for him and one for me and fish!). My TV stand is next to tank so just put it on there on top of something so can blow across the top of the water, not close enough to fall in or anything though obviously! 

Haven't had froggies now for a couple of years, both passed away about 2years ago, I'd had them five and a half years  Mine might have just been well behaved though and not jumped out! Yours could be naughty ! If tank lid only open a tiny bit can imagine you'll be ok but don't hold me to it!! 

Mine loved to sit around on the plants and I'd spend ages looking for them, they'd just be chilling out together in the greenery at the back of tank! Gorgeous little pair. 

Oh, I'm missing keeping them now talking about them! Def will be getting more in the future as so brilliant 
How long have you been keeping them? Any pics?


----------



## waterblossom (Jun 19, 2018)

GobyWan said:


> I don't notice much more evaporation with the fan, it's more the heat like you say.
> I tend to up my water changes to every 5days or so though when the tank is so warm. Always think the waste from fish, snails and food might cook a little more than usual!
> 
> I've only got a couple of small fans (also keep a chinchilla so he gets very warm bless him, one for him and one for me and fish!). My TV stand is next to tank so just put it on there on top of something so can blow across the top of the water, not close enough to fall in or anything though obviously!
> ...


Cool, I'll look into a fan then  but actually now that you mention the heat and waste, it totally makes sense. I'll make sure to keep my water changes in check! 

Aw, a chinchilla! How adorable  but sorry to hear about your frogs  I thought you still had them. I've only had mine for 3 days and I'm already attached to the little guys! After five and a half years, it must have been hard to see them go. But I hope mine live out as long a life as yours did! 

Observing my frogs so far, in the little time that I have been, they dont seem to actively try to get out.. but perhaps that could change? The water depth is only about 9-10 inches but they don't get up there that easily, so based on what I've seen of their swimming skills so far I would think it would be hard for them to break the surface tension to jump out completely? But I could be wrong...I heard some frogs and shrimp can get out of the tiniest holes! Or perhaps they might grow some crazy strong leg muscles over time and rocket right up lol they actually do that when they eat, weirdly. It's like they get this sudden burst of energy and they pop up to the top of the water like a rocket! 

How sweet that your pair spent time together! Mine only cross paths occasionally. I caught a moment today on camera actually and I'll post it below!  You said you had a male and female, right? Did they ever get to breeding?


----------



## GobyWan (May 10, 2018)

Aah gorgeous! 
You could see the difference between them after a few months, girly was a bit fatter and more rounded. They didn't really pay attention to each other for the first couple of years but after that if you saw one the other wasn't far away! Saw a bit of breeding behaviour with them, male mounting her etc but they lived with fish so obviously no eggs would have survived v long! 

Yes was pretty heartbroken when I lost them! Male passed away first, just found him dead in the morning being pushed around by my cories  female a couple of months later, no signs of illness or anything so don't know if just old age. 

My water depth is around 18inches, worried might be a struggle for them at first but they did just fine. 
Haha pumped up froggies! Yeah they swim brilliantly upwards so prob got pretty strong little muscles really for their size! 

Ooh just found an old pic of my girly on my phone (Ribbet as my niece called her!), don't have a pc at min and didn't think I had any on here! You can see the rounded, podgy belly 

And I know not a frog but as we mentioned him and he's beautiful but bonkers 

Pedro the chinchilla! He just turned 8, was with his sister Poppy (he's neutered) when I first adopted him but sadly she had to be put to sleep in Feb. Not very cuddly like people think and can be hard work but great and hilarious to watch


----------



## waterblossom (Jun 19, 2018)

GobyWan said:


> Aah gorgeous!
> You could see the difference between them after a few months, girly was a bit fatter and more rounded. They didn't really pay attention to each other for the first couple of years but after that if you saw one the other wasn't far away! Saw a bit of breeding behaviour with them, male mounting her etc but they lived with fish so obviously no eggs would have survived v long!
> 
> Yes was pretty heartbroken when I lost them! Male passed away first, just found him dead in the morning being pushed around by my cories  female a couple of months later, no signs of illness or anything so don't know if just old age.
> ...


Thank you! For right now, my frogs seem a but young so I can't really tell whether they are male or female, but I noticed that one of them does have the white spot behind its arm that usually means its a male, I believe? I'm not too sure, but it'd be awesome if I had a male and female like you did!  Hopefully they start hanging around together more because its so cute to see them in the same spots! 

Perhaps the loss was due to old age  I hear 5 years is about the lifespan usually :/ I'm sure they had a wonderful time together in your tank  Your Ribbet was beautiful! What a lovely lady 

Bump:


GobyWan said:


> And I know not a frog but as we mentioned him and he's beautiful but bonkers
> 
> Pedro the chinchilla! He just turned 8, was with his sister Poppy (he's neutered) when I first adopted him but sadly she had to be put to sleep in Feb. Not very cuddly like people think and can be hard work but great and hilarious to watch


Wow! What an adorable little fluffer!  Sorry to hear about Poppy's loss  I don't know much about chinchillas but they sure are cute!


----------



## GobyWan (May 10, 2018)

Thanks, forgot how chubby Ribbet was, looked just like yours when I got her! 
The male (Kermit, yep terrible names but my niece came with me to get them so had to name for me!) stayed rather slim so you should definitely notice a difference when they start growing. 
Would be great if you had a breeding pair, think you're right about the white dot behind the arm so fingers crossed for you!
Bet the tiny babies would be amazingly cute!!

Hopefully my little guys had a good time in my tank, did worry with them eating at first as was always a bit mad at feeding time with my cories zipping around like nutters. But after a couple of weeks they got used to it and stood their ground! 

Sure much more peaceful for your guys so will fatten up in no time! 
And sure once some breeding hormones kick in (if you've got a boy and girl) they'll hang out together more 

Thank you, Poppy had terrible teeth so years of vets and was best for her. But had come from a pretty horrible background so at least she was spoilt rotten with me. Now Pedro's double spoilt! If chinchillas could get big heads his would be huge with everyone saying how gorgeous he is!!


----------



## waterblossom (Jun 19, 2018)

GobyWan said:


> Thanks, forgot how chubby Ribbet was, looked just like yours when I got her!
> The male (Kermit, yep terrible names but my niece came with me to get them so had to name for me!) stayed rather slim so you should definitely notice a difference when they start growing.
> Would be great if you had a breeding pair, think you're right about the white dot behind the arm so fingers crossed for you!
> Bet the tiny babies would be amazingly cute!!
> ...


Wow, I can't wait to see my frogs develop! I hope one of them becomes chubby like Ribbet  I hope they get to breed too one day, but like in your case, I'm not sure if any eggs would make it because I'm planning on getting a couple fish soon! We'll see  

Aw, they are sure fast learners! My tank is small so for right now, I'm tweezer feeding them but theyre getting much better at locating the food so I'm thinking I'll be able to ditch the tweezers pretty soon! But yeah, pretty peaceful in the tank besides the occasional bump-in with a shrimp  Still haven't named them yet but trying to gauge their personalities first! 

Oh, poor Poppy  but right, she must have been living like a queen in your home!  Pedro is indeed a gorgeous chinchilla! He's got it all going for him!


----------



## GobyWan (May 10, 2018)

Oh good, at least I'm not the only one to name my little slimy/scaley beasts! My family and friends think I'm mad as I've always named everyone, even the snails! Although a bit hard to tell them apart as all purple striped!

Think the frogs (well in my experience) tend to get pretty good if you try and feed them in the same area at feeding time. Loved watching them eat, especially frozen bloodworms etc when they're sucking them up with their cute little mouths! Funny little guys. 

Hope yours are still doing well. Have you got any ideas for fish you'll be adding? 

Thanks


----------



## waterblossom (Jun 19, 2018)

GobyWan said:


> Oh good, at least I'm not the only one to name my little slimy/scaley beasts! My family and friends think I'm mad as I've always named everyone, even the snails! Although a bit hard to tell them apart as all purple striped!
> 
> Think the frogs (well in my experience) tend to get pretty good if you try and feed them in the same area at feeding time. Loved watching them eat, especially frozen bloodworms etc when they're sucking them up with their cute little mouths! Funny little guys.
> 
> ...


Oh, even the snails!  That's amazing! My memory isn't the best so I'll probably have to stick with just a few main characters in my tank, or at least take it slow  

Yeah, I also heard that about feeding frogs as well and I'm hoping to get them to eat at the same spot! They really are always hungry, those little cuties! And thanks, they're doing great so far  

Actually, the fish I want to add would make quite the controversial combination, I think. I've been tossing around the idea of stocking my tank with a dwarf puffer. I think I sound crazy, but at the same time, I've heard of very docile dwarf puffers that do well with various tankmates, including shrimp and frogs...though it isn't the norm. But nothing about my experience in fishkeeping has been the norm so far so I really want to try it out and see if it works! Crazy or just plain stupid?  I don't know, but ever since I started my tank I couldn't decide between ADFs and DPs and I tried to devise a plan to make them work together, given that I get a docile puffer. If the puffer is aggressive...well, I guess I'll have to take them back to my LFS and devise a new plan lol  but for now, I'm hoping that it'll all work out fine. I hear female DPs tend to be overall less aggressive than males so hopefully I can get a female, but like ADFs, theyre hard to sex as juveniles so .. :/ and I'm hoping that giving the frogs and shrimp time to settle in for a while first and establish territories as bottom dwellers will reduce the chances of the puffer seeing them as food. But anyways, I'm still only considering it but I feel like it's a possibility. There's no other fish that I'm as interested in as the DP and if the DPxADF combo doesn't work then I'm probably going to keep it just an ADF/shrimp tank.


----------



## GobyWan (May 10, 2018)

Haha my memory's terrible too, why I have my 'fish book'! Names and dates I got them, water changes, tests etc in or I'd be useless! 

Yeah my froggies were porkers too! Glad they're doing well 

How strange, was talking to my friend the other day about dwarf puffers as he'd seen them at his LFS. I've never seen them in person but very cute little things on pics I've seen. Read a really good article about keeping them-

https://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/features/articles/how-to-keep-dwarf-puffer-fish

Sounds like could go either way! Prob a bit like a Betta, depends on personalities of the fish etc. Blooming gorgeous though!


----------



## GobyWan (May 10, 2018)

Hi @waterblossom, how are the frogs doing? Still happy chaps?


----------



## waterblossom (Jun 19, 2018)

GobyWan said:


> Hi @waterblossom, how are the frogs doing? Still happy chaps?


Oh my! Sorry for the extreme delay in response-- life got in the way  but what a coincidence, I happened to check the forum today and I saw your post!  

Frogs are doing great! Thanks for asking  Like I'd hoped, one of them is growing a rounder belly and I think it's a she! They've gotten a lot more comfortable in the tank so they roam around a lot, theyre also spending more time together. Although, I noticed they can get a little bit aggressive during feeding.. sometimes the female bites the male? Not sure what is going on there..  

I got another batch of shrimps and I've seen the frogs interested and chasing after them once in a while, but they havent managed to nab any yet... hoping that it stays that way  Although I can't say for sure since I did have one of my shrimps mysteriously disappear. Oh well! It is fun watching the frog pair swim around


----------



## GobyWan (May 10, 2018)

No worries, glad they're still doing well 
Really can't remember how fast they grew/matured after I got them home but maybe now comfortable she's telling him off for getting a bit too frisky! Or he's pinching her food and she's letting him know she's boss!! 
May even be the same sex but she(?) is just the alpha!

Pleased they're coming out more, I think once they get the hang of the tank and know where/who's what they get pretty confident! 

Oh no  well I've never kept shrimp so have no idea on the ADF/shrimp combo! Can't imagine they'd manage to kill one as so clumsy but can imagine they'd eat leftovers ;( 

My pair had tiny Oto catfish sitting on their backs and wouldn't seem to notice/care but they're all different I guess!!


----------



## waterblossom (Jun 19, 2018)

GobyWan said:


> No worries, glad they're still doing well
> Really can't remember how fast they grew/matured after I got them home but maybe now comfortable she's telling him off for getting a bit too frisky! Or he's pinching her food and she's letting him know she's boss!!
> May even be the same sex but she(?) is just the alpha!
> 
> ...


Yeah, actually I was quite surprised at how quickly they seem to be maturing? I thought it would be a few months until I'd see any visible changes as they were both small and slim when I first got them but within a few weeks, I think theyre already acquiring some sex traits! But you're totally right, they could both be female! I wonder  Although I still see the white dots behind the arms of the other frog so still crossing my fingers that its a male  

I am pleased to see them out and about more often as well! Theyre definitely gaining confidence  But yeah, their aim for shrimps isnt that good so I've never seen one actually being eaten. It could have also been the other shrimps who attacked one who was vulnerable in molting. I guess I'll never know! 

Oh a oto on their backs! How cute  I see my shrimps walking over their heads sometimes, its pretty funny


----------



## GobyWan (May 10, 2018)

Hoping one of each for you  guess a good diet and not competing for food with fish or lots of other frogs etc helping them 'bulk up'! 
Glad they're more confident, they're great little beasts and nice when they're out and about all the time to watch and laugh at!

Hope no more shrimp issues! And they carry on growing well and amusing you 
You'll have to put some more pics up when they've grown a bit more, would love to see them!


----------



## waterblossom (Jun 19, 2018)

GobyWan said:


> Hoping one of each for you  guess a good diet and not competing for food with fish or lots of other frogs etc helping them 'bulk up'!
> Glad they're more confident, they're great little beasts and nice when they're out and about all the time to watch and laugh at!
> 
> Hope no more shrimp issues! And they carry on growing well and amusing you
> You'll have to put some more pics up when they've grown a bit more, would love to see them!


Thank you! Yes, I'm loving their more outgoing behavior  

Actually, 3 of my red shrimps went missing!  Pretty sure my lady frog is the culprit...! She's had an awfully fully belly recently even on non-feeding days  And I saw a sheen of redness under the skin of her side belly, and at first I thought it was a sickness but then it dawned on me that she must have gobbled up my fire red shrimp... my blue and yellow shrimp seem to be in much better shape, so I'm guessing the red catches the frogs attention and makes it look like blood worms or something :/ I might have to reconsider the shrimp+frog combo as I'm learning that the 'female' shrimp is actually quite deft and smart..or at least avoid red shrimps  

The 'female' frog is quite aggressive at feeding time and even though I know she had a meal out of my shrimps, she still was trying to steal 'male's bloodworms! I have to keep an eye on her  

I'll definitely try to post more pictures as they mature!


----------



## Orichid123 (Feb 25, 2018)

you say you have them in a community tank wit shrimp do they not eat the shrimp and other community fish I heard that they eat your fish so that is why I have not put them in my community let me know thanks


----------



## waterblossom (Jun 19, 2018)

Orichid123 said:


> you say you have them in a community tank wit shrimp do they not eat the shrimp and other community fish I heard that they eat your fish so that is why I have not put them in my community let me know thanks


Hey there! I think each frog is different. I have one male and one female, and while they both chase shrimp occasionally, I really only see the female pursue the shrimps with aggression. I have had 3 shrimps eaten and they were all a red variety of shrimp, which lead me to believe the red color makes the shrimp look like food. My blue and yellow shrimps are still alive, but of course, its up to the frog to decide whether it will make a meal out of shrimps or not. I don't have any fish though. Hope that helps


----------



## GobyWan (May 10, 2018)

Orichid123 said:


> you say you have them in a community tank wit shrimp do they not eat the shrimp and other community fish I heard that they eat your fish so that is why I have not put them in my community let me know thanks


Def agree with @waterblossom, individual personalities etc. 
But these are African DWARF frogs and not African CLAWED frogs, they are more aggressive and obviously have claws so they're not good to keep with fish etc because of injuries to them from the claws, also get bigger than ADFs. 

I've found ADFs good to keep with community fish but I may have had a well behaved pair! 

Hope no more shrimps disappear @waterblossom, how strange just the red ones! Don't know a lot about their eyesight and colour but definitely very odd! Poor shrimpys!


----------



## GobyWan (May 10, 2018)

@waterblossom how often do you do no food days? I very rarely do those/did those with my tanks, with Rainbowfish and small catfish being the main fish (with frogs when I had them) I don't feel I need to but know very different to shrimp. 

Is it those days the shrimp are being eaten? Could try target feeding the frogs a couple of bloodworms on those days like you did before in case a bit hungry, as they're growing as well. 
Worth a try anyway to save any more shrimp disappearing in frog bellies!


----------



## waterblossom (Jun 19, 2018)

GobyWan said:


> @waterblossom how often do you do no food days? I very rarely do those/did those with my tanks, with Rainbowfish and small catfish being the main fish (with frogs when I had them) I don't feel I need to but know very different to shrimp.
> 
> Is it those days the shrimp are being eaten? Could try target feeding the frogs a couple of bloodworms on those days like you did before in case a bit hungry, as they're growing as well.
> Worth a try anyway to save any more shrimp disappearing in frog bellies!


I heard that frogs will eat as often as they find food, so it's easy for them to become obese. So I feed every other day, and my shrimp get the leftover blood worms that the frogs dont eat. Besides that, my shrimp eat algae and dead plant matter  You could definitely be right about the shrimp going missing on non-feeding days! I haven't really thought about it, but it could be. But I recently got some frog/tadpole pellets so I'll try to be supplementing the blood worms with that too! Hopefully it keeps them full


----------

