# Dry dosing and Nutrient Solution Recipes



## Zorfox

There seems to be a lot of confusion about how to mix nutrient solutions. Below are basic recipes for solutions or dry dosing for common US tank sizes. Every solution or dry dose will provide the exact levels shown below. These should be dosed 3 time per week based on high light and CO2 injection with a 50% weekly water change. Low light and no CO2 simply use 1/3 of the dosing listed with the same 50%weekly water change.

Since KNO3 (potassium nitrate) provides significant potassium K2SO4 is optional. The K2SO4 doses listed below provide 2.2 ppm of potassium which raises potassium to the full EI level. This is usually not necessary.

Mix the amount given in 500ml of water, preferably R/O or distilled. Doses vary as listed depending on tank size.

NO3	7.5 ppm
N	1.694 ppm
PO4	1.3 ppm
P	0.424 ppm
K	5.3 ppm (7.5 ppm with additional K2SO4)
Fe	0.5 ppm
Mg	0.107 ppm
dGH	0.025 ppm
Cu	0.007 ppm
B	0.061 ppm
Mn	0.143 ppm
Mo	0.004 ppm
S	(0.917 ppm with additional K2SO4)
Zn	0.028 ppm

*1ml/Gallon*

KNO3 23.1 gm (approximately 4 1/2 teaspoons)
KH2PO4 3.5 gm (approximately 3/4 teaspoons)
Plantex CSM+B 14.5 gm (approximately 3 1/4 teaspoons)
Optional: K2SO4 9.4 gm (approximately 1 1/2 teaspoons)

_Dry Dosing per 1 gallon
KNO3 46.3 mg (too small to use teaspoon measures)
KH2PO4 7 mg (too small to use teaspoon measures)
Plantex CSM+B 29 mg (too small to use teaspoon measures)
K2SO4 19 mg (too small to use teaspoon measures)_

*5ml/10 gallons*

KNO3 46.3 gm (approximately 9 teaspoons)
KH2PO4 7 gm (approximately 1 1/4 teaspoons)
Plantex CSM+B 29 gm (approximately 6 3/4 teaspoons)
Optional: K2SO4 19 gm (approximately 3 teaspoons)

_Dry Dosing
Optional: K2SO4 189 mg (approximately 1/32 teaspoons)
KNO3 463 mg (approximately 1/16 teaspoons)
KH2PO4 71 mg (too small to use teaspoon measures)
Plantex CSM+B 290 mg (approximately 1/16 teaspoons)_

*5ml/20 Gallons*

KNO3 93 gm (approximately 17 3/4 teaspoons)
KH2PO4 14 gm (approximately 2 1/2 teaspoons)
Plantex CSM+B 58 gm (approximately 13 1/2 teaspoons)
Optional: K2SO4 38 gm (approximately 6 teaspoons)

_Dry Dosing
Optional: K2SO4 377 mg (approximately 1/16 teaspoons)
KNO3 926 mg (approximately 1/8 teaspoons)
KH2PO4 141 mg (approximately 1/32 teaspoons)
Plantex CSM+B 580 mg (approximately 1/8 teaspoons)_

*10ml/29 Gallons*

KNO3 67.123 gm (approximately 13 teaspoons)
KH2PO4 10.224 gm (approximately 1 3/4 teaspoons)
Plantex CSM+B 42.028 gm (approximately 9 3/4 
Optional: K2SO4 26.91 gm (approximately 4 1/4 teaspoons)

_Dry Dosing
Optional: K2SO4 547 mg (approximately 1/16 teaspoons)
KNO3 1.3 gm (approximately 1/4 teaspoons)
KH2PO4 204.5 mg (approximately 1/32 teaspoons)
Plantex CSM+B 841 mg (approximately 1/4 teaspoons)_

*10ml/40 Gallons*

KNO3 92.5 gm (approximately 17 3/4 teaspoons)
KH2PO4 14 gm (approximately 2 1/2 teaspoons)
Plantex CSM+B 58 gm (approximately 13 1/2 teaspoons)
Optional: K2SO4 38 gm (approximately 6 teaspoons)

_Dry Dosing
Optional: K2SO4 754.5 mg (approximately 1/8 teaspoons)
KNO3 1.8 gm (approximately 1/4 teaspoons)
KH2PO4 282 mg (approximately 1/16 teaspoons)
Plantex CSM+B 1.2 gm (approximately 1/4 teaspoons)_

*20ml/46 Gallons*

KNO3 106.5 gm (approximately 20 1/2 teaspoons)
KH2PO4 16.2 gm (approximately 3 teaspoons)
Plantex CSM+B 66.7 gm (approximately 15 1/2 teaspoons)
Optional: K2SO4 43.4 gm (approximately 6 3/4 teaspoons)

_Dry Dosing
Optional: K2SO4 867.7 mg (approximately 1/8 teaspoons)
KNO3 2.1 gm (approximately 1/2 teaspoons)
KH2PO4 324.4 mg (approximately 1/16 teaspoons)
Plantex CSM+B 1.3 gm (approximately 1/4 teaspoons)_

*15ml/55 Gallons*

KNO3 84.868 gm (approximately 16 1/4 teaspoons)
KH2PO4 12.927 gm (approximately 2 1/4 teaspoons)
Plantex CSM+B 53.139 gm (approximately 12 1/4 teaspoons)
Optional: K2SO4 34.024 gm (approximately 5 1/4 teaspoons)

_Dry Dosing
Optional: K2SO4 1 gm (approximately 1/8 teaspoons)
KNO3 2.5 gm (approximately 1/2 teaspoons)
KH2PO4 388 mg (approximately 1/16 teaspoons)
Plantex CSM+B 1.6 gm (approximately 1/4 teaspoons)_

*15ml/75 Gallons*

KNO3 115.7 gm (approximately 22 1/4 teaspoons)
Plantex CSM+B 72.5 gm (approximately 16 3/4 teaspoons)
KH2PO4 17.6 gm (approximately 3 1/8 teaspoons)
Optional: K2SO4 47 gm (approximately 7 1/4 teaspoons)

_Dry Dosing
Optional: K2SO4 1.4 gm (approximately 1/4 teaspoons)
KNO3 3.5 gm (approximately 3/4 teaspoons)
KH2PO4 529 mg (approximately 1/8 teaspoons)
Plantex CSM+B 2.2 gm (approximately 1/2 teaspoons)_

*20ml/90 Gallons*

KNO3 104.2 gm (approximately 20 1/32 teaspoons)
KH2PO4 15.9 gm (approximately 2 3/4 teaspoons)
Plantex CSM+B 65.2 gm (approximately 15 1/8 teaspoons)
Optional: K2SO4 42.4 gm (approximately 6 3/4 teaspoons)

_Dry Dosing
Optional: K2SO4 1.7 gm (approximately 1/4 teaspoons)
KNO3 4.2 gm (approximately 3/4 teaspoons)
KH2PO4 635 mg (approximately 1/8 teaspoons)
Plantex CSM+B 2.6 gm (approximately 1/2 teaspoons)_

*25ml/125 Gallons*

KNO3 115.7 gm (approximately 22 1/4 teaspoons)
KH2PO4 17.6 gm (approximately 3 1/8 teaspoons)
Plantex CSM+B 72.5 gm (approximately 16 3/4 teaspoons)
Optional: K2SO4 47.2 gm (approximately 7 1/4 teaspoons)


_Dry Dosing 
Optional: K2SO4 2.4 gm (approximately 1/4 teaspoons)
KNO3 5.8 gm (approximately 1 1/8 teaspoons)
KH2PO4 881.4 mg (approximately 1/8 teaspoons)
Plantex CSM+B 3.6 gm (approximately 3/4 teaspoons)_


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## Raymond S.

This is awesome dude...


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## monkey4life

Bookmarked for reference. Will be using.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk


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## plantbrain

Good post feller.


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## mistuhmarc

For clarification, dry dosing is just the equivalent of dosing dry ferts directly into the tank right?


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## burr740

This is excellent, thanks.


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## Monster Fish

You just saved me some calculations. Thanks!


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## roadmaster

Good deal.
Now there is a place to send folk's for easy dosing guide for those who don't wanna over complicate dosing.


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## Zorfox

Thanks guys. 



roadmaster said:


> Good deal.
> Now there is a place to send folk's for easy dosing guide for those who don't wanna over complicate dosing.


My thought exactly.


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## JoraaÑ

For 125 gal

25ml/125 Gallons

Plantex CSM+B 72.5 gm (approximately 16 3/4 teaspoons) to get PPM per full EI level....which is 1 PPM right? 

This only gives you 1/2 what EI recommends: to reach target level of 1 PPM you have to Double the amount of CSM+B accordingly to Wets Calculator.

So which 1 is it?


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## Zorfox

JoraaÑ said:


> For 125 gal
> 
> 25ml/125 Gallons
> 
> Plantex CSM+B 72.5 gm (approximately 16 3/4 teaspoons) to get PPM per full EI level....which is 1 PPM right?
> 
> This only gives you 1/2 what EI recommends: to reach target level of 1 PPM you have to Double the amount of CSM+B accordingly to Wets Calculator.
> 
> So which 1 is it?


A single dose of Plantex should target iron to a level of 0.5ppm. Wet's calculator targets 0.5ppm of iron for Plantex. Not sure where you came up with 1ppm. Remember, this is a single dose not what we want our tank levels to remain at.


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## PhilipS

I dose with an EI pack.

Just got some MgS04.

Using all the EI calculators I see that I'm overdosing certain elements.

Is there a calculator that calculates all all of the ferts I'm using rather than individual ferts?

PPS system?


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## Zorfox

All the calculators I've seen calculate individual fertilizers. YANC is a great online calculator. I'm in the process of writing a Windows based calculator. Currently it will keep a running total of selected nutrients which is similar to what you want. You can download it from the link above if you want to try it.


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## PhilipS

Yes, Rota.la is the one I used.

Let us know when you have your online version running.


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## PhilipS

Zorfox is your calculator an exe?

It doesn't open on the iPhone.


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## Zorfox

webskipper said:


> Zorfox is your calculator an exe?
> 
> It doesn't open on the iPhone.


Yes. It's only Windows based. To compile it for iPhone, Android, Mac OS and Linux I would need to upgrade to the new development version. Since this is only a hobbyfor me, $5,000 is not in the cards lol. Sorry.

I believe a user here, mistergreen, wrote a fertilizer app for the iPhone.


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## EwDeg

I've been looking for a guide like this since I'm torn between buying pre-mixed solutions for EI or going with Dry and mixing solutions myself. I'd prefer to dose with wet ferts, but I have a couple questions as I'm new to this. Are these levels considered the standard EI doses because I've seen different doses elsewhere such as:

For 10-20 gallons;
1/8 tsp KNO3
1/32 tsp KH2PO4
1/32 tsp K2SO4
1/32 tsp traces

This is significantly different from the above doses. I guess I can always convert to these levels....I'm just wondering what is considered standard EI? Any help/direction is appreciated. I'd like to purchase my ferts this week, but am shying away from mixing my own solutions as I'm confused to the standard.


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## EwDeg

For color, I'll be dosing a 20 gallon high with high-medium light and CO2.


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## Zorfox

Yes, the doses listed are standard EI doses. Here is a post explaining the basics of non-limiting nutrients. The EI levels we want to achieve are listed there as well. As far as how much each dose should be it depends on the tank. Since you have high light and CO2 a full EI dose would be appropriate.

NO3 (Nitrate) 7.5ppm
PO4 (Phosphate) 1.3ppm
K (Potassium) 7.5
Fe (Iron) 0.5ppm

Don't be torn between buying premixed solutions and dry fertilizers. It's as simple as adding the amount listed in water. If you go with premixed fertilizers you're basically paying for water and a sprinkle of dry fertilizers. Don't let the terminology confuse you. Just mix and dose


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## EwDeg

Ok just finished reading your other post Zorfox. I think I have a better handle on it. So my plan was to get the EI ferts and 500mL bottles and mix the solution. Do you think it would be better to just mix single doses first to dial in my levels? One thing I noticed when reading your write-up was the discussion on nitrates. My tank is very stable at 20ppm nitrates, so I would be within range in that regard, so maybe I don't need to dose NO3.


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## Zorfox

If you maintain that nitrate level no you don't need to dose KNO3. You may also want to check you phosphate levels. They may very well be within range as well. If so you can eliminate the K2HPO4.

I would mix each fertilizer separately until you get things dialed in. After that you can mix macros together and Plantex in another. Never mix Plantex with macros primarily KH2PO4.

If you don't use KNO3 dose extra K2SO4. The amount below are full EI doses without KNO3. Notice the dose size is larger. K2SO4 is not very soluble in water so a larger dose size is needed. 

Element Levels from the doses listed below
PO4	1.3 ppm
P	0.424 ppm
K	8.0352 ppm
Fe	0.5 ppm
Mg	0.1072 ppm
dGH	0.0246
Cu	0.0069 ppm
B	0.0613 ppm
Mn	0.1432 ppm
Mo	0.0038 ppm
S	3.0755 ppm
Zn	0.0283 ppm

(x1) K2SO4 42.2 gm (approximately 6 1/2 teaspoons)
(x1) KH2PO4 4.72 gm (approximately 3/4 teaspoons)
(x1) Plantex CSM+B 19.32 gm (approximately 4 1/2 teaspoons)

The levels above are for a 20 gallon tank using a container size of 500 ml and a dose size of 15 ml.

I would recommend Nilocg here on the Planted Tank for your fertilizer needs. I like supporting members and his support is great.


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## EwDeg

Thanks Zorfox. Very helpful! You da man! I was already looking into nilocg's stuff, so I'll take another look on your recommendation. I don't currently have a way to test phosphates. I'm just using API Master Kit, and API GK/KH test kit should be on my doorstep when I get home. Any recommendations on Phosphate test kit?


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## Zorfox

EwDeg said:


> Thanks Zorfox. Very helpful! You da man! I was already looking into nilocg's stuff, so I'll take another look on your recommendation. I don't currently have a way to test phosphates. I'm just using API Master Kit, and API GK/KH test kit should be on my doorstep when I get home. Any recommendations on Phosphate test kit?


I use API. Cheap and in nearly any LFS. I think I paid $5 or so. Once you get everything dialed in you'll rarely ever need to test which is why I like cheap and easy.


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## EwDeg

Perfect. Thanks again! Excited to get my CO2 and ferts regimen going!


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## plantbrain

zorfox said:


> don't be torn between buying premixed solutions and dry fertilizers. It's as simple as adding the amount listed in water. If you go with premixed fertilizers you're basically paying for water and a sprinkle of dry fertilizers. Don't let the terminology confuse you. Just mix and dose


+1+2+3


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## EwDeg

plantbrain said:


> +1+2+3


Heh ok ok you guys convinced me! Dry it is! :icon_smil


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## plantbrain

Do not get confused with the math, just follow the directions, add 2-3x a week the dry ferts, maybe make a liquid trace, dose that 3-5x a week etc. that's it. It'll soon be boring and routine. 

In practice, there is no planted take that makes or breaks with some very careful precise metered like dosing routine. So do not worry about it, just add them as routine as you will.

The old days, folks use to claim the the careful dosing was some secret to algae, which was/is manure. So there are some that still believe it, or that there's something to it still, even after being resoundingly falsified over and over.

This is not about belief. EI does not care about that. 
All it does is provide in accordance with Liebig's Law,a non limiting amount of ferts for 99%-99.9% of planted tanks. 

You dose 2-4 things, that's it.
Done.

Most planted hobbyist got into the hobby mostly from the fish side of the hobby. We wanted a nice planted garden and something that looks nice. We did not get into the hobby to test PO4, NO3, pH etc.

I do not test this stuff any longer. I had to convince myself that it did not matter. I have the background to to know what I dosed and measured, but my goal was not really to do that, but rather, to garden and scape nice planted Dutch tanks. Amano was not around back then in the English speaking scene. 

So do not lose sight of your original goal. A little bit of testing when done right, it can be useful, KH test kits(Lamotte are excellent) and pH meters are the most useful. Knowing what the tap water source is and the water report is also very helpful. I doubt you need more than that. 

You can if you want.........but it will not help in any significant way for the gardening and goal.


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## PhilipS

Do you agree with the target levels that the fert calculators show?

Does EI dosing yield better results than the Perpetual method (PPS)?

I'm IE dosing.


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## Zorfox

webskipper said:


> Do you agree with the target levels that the fert calculators show?
> 
> Does EI dosing yield better results than the Perpetual method (PPS)?
> 
> I'm IE dosing.


I realize your were asking Plantbrain for a response. However, I'd like to put my two cents in on this.

Plant growth can be limited by a number of variables. One being nutrients. Since we're discussing fertilizing methods why not eliminate that variable from the equation? PPS typically uses little PO4 and I can only assume it was because it was once thought that extra phosphate caused algae. However, this is not the case. It's been proven time and time again.

EI provides non-limiting nutrients. This eliminates nutrient deficiencies and allows hobbyists to concentrate on other things. Sure, many say CO2 and light but what about why we all initially became interested in this hobby? All of those things are "the mechanics" of keeping a planted tank. It seems to me that the vast majority of people dwell on these issues and ignore the art of a planted tank. The art is why I'm interested in this. Art can never be mastered. That's my kind of hobby!

Non-limiting nutrient solutions is nothing new. No offense to Tom Barr but it's been around in science for close to a century. Why haven't we used this approach before? Many STILL believe extra nutrients cause algae. I'm sure Tom bought into this at one time. The fact is, excess nutrients within reason do not cause algae or death of your stock. So why not simply provide more than the plants need and see what happens? I can only assume this is a question Tom asked himself long ago...thank god!

Time has shown that providing excess nutrients is a viable and safe option. Call it EI or anything you want. Just supply non-limiting nutrients and move on. The debates over this method or that seem pointless to me personally. It simply is what it is. Dose your tanks and enjoy the hobby. No need to over think the mechanics of this hobby. Mechanical information is out there in abundance. Learn the basics and then enjoy the art!


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## Zapins

Very good info. There was definitely a need for this.


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## bsantucci

Question on this. I have a 48g tank growing iwagumi style and most plants are root feeders. I don't have the demand for full EI I wouldn't think. Would it make more sense to start dosing based on say the 40g measurements, see how the tank reacts and adjust accordingly? I just have a feeling dosing per the 46g measurements would cause my nitrates to run high.


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## Zorfox

bsantucci said:


> Question on this. I have a 48g tank growing iwagumi style and most plants are root feeders. I don't have the demand for full EI I wouldn't think. Would it make more sense to start dosing based on say the 40g measurements, see how the tank reacts and adjust accordingly? I just have a feeling dosing per the 46g measurements would cause my nitrates to run high.


It's hard to say without knowing what your current nitrate level is as well as what it would be if you did 50% weekly water changes. If you currently maintain a level between 10-30 ppm with WC you wouldn't need the KNO3. Phosphates, 1-3 ppm. It sounds as if you're using substrate fertilizers but I don't know.

Dosing for a 40 gallon would work just fine. There is quite a large margin here. So the difference between 40 and 46 isn't much. Regardless, if you do a 50% weekly water change the levels will remain within a normal range assuming your tap water does not have high levels of nutrients.


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## bsantucci

Zorfox said:


> It's hard to say without knowing what your current nitrate level is as well as what it would be if you did 50% weekly water changes. If you currently maintain a level between 10-30 ppm with WC you wouldn't need the KNO3. Phosphates, 1-3 ppm. It sounds as if you're using substrate fertilizers but I don't know.
> 
> Dosing for a 40 gallon would work just fine. There is quite a large margin here. So the difference between 40 and 46 isn't much. Regardless, if you do a 50% weekly water change the levels will remain within a normal range assuming your tap water does not have high levels of nutrients.


Thanks for the reply. My nitrates usually run high since this setup which is why I asked. I do want to get them down. I see them at or over 40ppm weekly before my change. 

So you're saying don't dose KNO3? I thought you usually don't dose K2SO4 if you have higher nitrates. So could I skip the KNO3 and dose K2SO4 for a week to see how that works in the tank and where the nitrates are at after a week? My tap doesn't have high levels of anything so that is ok.

The pre-mixed solution I was using now had both KNO3 and K2SO4. My phosphates run a bit higher too, closer to 5+. I was already going to reduce that when I start dry dosing tomorrow.


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## Zorfox

What exactly are you dosing now? Do you use any substrate fertilizers or dirt substrate? I was under the impression you didn't dose currently. Also high light, CO2 or excel?


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## bsantucci

Zorfox said:


> What exactly are you dosing now? Do you use any substrate fertilizers or dirt substrate? I was under the impression you didn't dose currently. Also high light, CO2 or excel?


I am dosing per the below solutions. I do use root tabs, all pushed down to the glass. I have 3 inches of substrate which is eco-complete. I have high light (dual BML setup) and run pressurized co2.

500mL water + 5.5 Tbsp KNO3 = 33 doses at 15mL per dose 
500mL water + 2 Tsp KH2PO4 = 33 doses at 15mL per dose 
500mL water + 4 Tsp K2SO4 = 33 doses at 15mL per dose 
500mL Water + 2 Tbsp CSM+B = 10mL per dose.


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## Zorfox

The substrate fertilizers must be adding nitrates and phosphates. It's hard to say since they can vary quite a lot. 

The doses you listed are around half of the full EI dose with the exception of Phosphates. You're dosing a full EI dose of that. Since you use substrate fertilizers you may be getting a lot from there.

So basically, IF you're doing a 50% water change weekly what you're dosing seems pretty close to where you need to be. You could reduce the KH2PO4 by half but it's not going to hurt anything leaving it the way it is.

How much of all this (and what) comes from the substrate fertilizers? I have know idea. This is one reason I prefer to not use them. A substrate with a high CEC ratio will hold fertilizers for root delivery. Then I know exactly what I am putting in which means I know what the plants are utilizing. No guesswork. But saying that is probably consider heresy by many in the hobby lol

In short you seem to be fine doing what you're doing. If you don't like the nitrate and phosphate levels reduce your current dosing but keep them in the EI ranges. You certainly do not need to dose full EI.


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## bsantucci

Zorfox said:


> The substrate fertilizers must be adding nitrates and phosphates. It's hard to say since they can vary quite a lot.
> 
> The doses you listed are around half of the full EI dose with the exception of Phosphates. You're dosing a full EI dose of that. Since you use substrate fertilizers you may be getting a lot from there.
> 
> So basically, IF you're doing a 50% water change weekly what you're dosing seems pretty close to where you need to be. You could reduce the KH2PO4 by half but it's not going to hurt anything leaving it the way it is.
> 
> How much of all this (and what) comes from the substrate fertilizers? I have know idea. This is one reason I prefer to not use them. A substrate with a high CEC ratio will hold fertilizers for root delivery. Then I know exactly what I am putting in which means I know what the plants are utilizing. No guesswork. But saying that is probably consider heresy by many in the hobby lol
> 
> In short you seem to be fine doing what you're doing. If you don't like the nitrate and phosphate levels reduce your current dosing but keep them in the EI ranges. You certainly do not need to dose full EI.


Cool thanks for the replies here. I didn't think the root tabs would leech that much up if they remained under the substrate. Since I'm moving to dry dosing now I'll give it a shot dosing much lower KNO3 to see if I can get the nitrates down to 20% at the end of the week. Nitrates are my only real concern here since they are always high like I said. I don't want my live stock affected with the higher levels over time.


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## burr740

Hi, 

Im about to start a modified EI routine on my 75, and Im trying to figure out a good dosing schedule to begin with based on the above recipes. I just got the EI pack from GLA plus a bag of their iron chelate. I plan on dosing dry for the time being.

Here's some details on my set-up, mid-tech is what I call it (med light, moderate CO2)

*Tank Size:* 75g
*Light:* 2x54w T5HO Hydropinic fixture, 20" from substrate:
*Co2:* DIY - in the 15-20 ppm range
*Excel/Glut:* 5 ml Metracide daily, down from 15 before CO2
*Substrate:* 100% BD blasting sand, Osmocote root tabs around the swords and crypts.
*Plant Mass:* Fairly heavy
*Stock Level:* Heavy, feed once or twice a day. 

Ive used Flourish Comp since starting the tank. Besides that Ive been using Seachem liquids for about a month, N P K Fe @ about 1.5x "beginners dose" three times/week. (which isnt near enough macro btw) Before I added those my nitrate and phosphate were practically zero all the time, even on day 7 right before a weekly water change. (lots of stems and wisteria, picture is in my sig for a general idea) 

Pretty sure I dont need to do full EI, considering light/Co2 levels, so I was thinking about starting with the 55 gal dosage, twice a week. Mon/Tue and Thur/Fri, with a 50% WC on Sun.

How does that sound? Would 3x week be better, or maybe the 75 gal dose 2x week?

Also not sure if I even need the extra iron but I got some anyway. Thoughts on that? If I decide to use it, does 1/16 tsp on micro days sound about right?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions. This thread has already been so helpful.


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## Zorfox

Dosing the 55 gallon amount twice a week would be fine. I do think dosing more often is desirable mostly due to chelated nutrients becoming unavailable. So dosing that amount 3 times a week may be a better option. As far as the iron 1/16 teaspoon sounds good. I doubt you will need it but the DTPA will last longer between doses than the EDTA in Plantex which is where the advantage comes into play.

Now for my heretical opinion on trying to balance dosing with light and CO2.

Many hobbyists will argue over how much is enough for a certain set of parameters. The debate is about how close we can get to limiting nutrients without going under. I've never understood this debate. Why would you ever want to get close to limitation?

We know that the full EI dose does not cause any issues when weekly water changes are done. In fact, full EI dosing won't cause problems with 0% uptake as long as the same water changes are done. 0% uptake would be a tank without CO2 in total darkness lol. 

The only advantage that I can see to reducing dosages is to prevent wasting fertilizers. Dry fertilizers are dirt cheap! We're not fertilizing 500 acres of corn. I've never seen the point to this methodology. Just my two cents of course but logically it makes sense, to me anyway.


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## Josiah

Wouldn't the 46 need less dosing because they are taller and thus lack the width and depth of the 40 gallons? Meaning less plants to take up nutrients...

I have a tall tank and found out that I get the nitrates I'm looking for when shooting for the tank range under mine. In my breeder tank, I stick to the EI. Otherwise my nitrate levels build up to fast when compared to fast.


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## burr740

Zorfox said:


> Dosing the 55 gallon amount twice a week would be fine. I do think dosing more often is desirable mostly due to chelated nutrients becoming unavailable. So dosing that amount 3 times a week may be a better option. As far as the iron 1/16 teaspoon sounds good. I doubt you will need it but the DTPA will last longer between doses than the EDTA in Plantex which is where the advantage comes into play.
> 
> Now for my heretical opinion on trying to balance dosing with light and CO2.
> 
> Many hobbyists will argue over how much is enough for a certain set of parameters. The debate is about how close we can get to limiting nutrients without going under. I've never understood this debate. Why would you ever want to get close to limitation?
> 
> We know that the full EI dose does not cause any issues when weekly water changes are done. In fact, full EI dosing won't cause problems with 0% uptake as long as the same water changes are done. 0% uptake would be a tank without CO2 in total darkness lol.
> 
> The only advantage that I can see to reducing dosages is to prevent wasting fertilizers. Dry fertilizers are dirt cheap! We're not fertilizing 500 acres of corn. I've never seen the point to this methodology. Just my two cents of course but logically it makes sense, to me anyway.


Excellent. I was mainly worried about overdosing but I get it now. Thanks! Probably gonna start with the 55 dose 3x week, and if anything, err on the plus side when measuring.


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## Zorfox

Josiah said:


> Wouldn't the 46 need less dosing because they are taller and thus lack the width and depth of the 40 gallons? Meaning less plants to take up nutrients...
> 
> I have a tall tank and found out that I get the nitrates I'm looking for when shooting for the tank range under mine. In my breeder tank, I stick to the EI. Otherwise my nitrate levels build up to fast when compared to fast.


Interesting observation. I've never thought about that. However, I don't think it has anything to do with the plant mass. Plants can occupy the vertical water column so the mass would basically be equal to the volume of a more shallow tank. Instead, the amount of surface area for light would in fact be reduced not to mention the lower PAR values as a result of increased depth. After all, light drives nutrient uptake. I could see that being a factor to nutrient uptake.


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## Josiah

Zorfox said:


> Interesting observation. I've never thought about that. However, I don't think it has anything to do with the plant mass. Plants can occupy the vertical water column so the mass would basically be equal to the volume of a more shallow tank. Instead, the amount of surface area for light would in fact be reduced not to mention the lower PAR values as a result of increased depth. After all, light drives nutrient uptake. I could see that being a factor to nutrient uptake.


Glad you understood what I meant. I was a bit intoxicated when I typed that. No matter how heavily planted my tall tanks are, the nitrates build up is to fast by the end of the week. These are fully planted tanks too. The first day after a water-change is the same, but day 3...it can get ugly.

Some with heavy plant feeders like watersprites and frogbits to boot. With standard tanks or breeder tanks I don't have this issue. This is coming from a guy that most of his tanks are tall tanks because I like Angelfish. >.>


----------



## mba

I just got an autodose system from Marine Magic and unfortunately this only had a function to dose within 24 hours time period at 16 different schedule time. Currently I"m planning on dosing the following schedule for my 75 gallon tank using the formula provided in OP. I will multiply it by 3 to mix it in the solution to fill in my 1500ml bottles: 

15ML for 3 times a week. I split it into half since mine can only dose within 24hrs.
Dose Micro: 7.5ML 8:00 (8AM)
Dose Macro: 7.5ML 20:00 (8pm)
Dose Iron: ???????

Also, I'm planning to dose iron since this is a 3 pump system. How many grams of iron (Fe 13%) should I mix in a 1500ml ro water and time (I think I will dose it at the same time as Micro)? I heard if you add 10ml Excel solution it will help the solutions last longer and avoid the crap it will build up. 

Thoughts and recommendation?


----------



## Zorfox

mba said:


> I just got an autodose system from Marine Magic and unfortunately this only had a function to dose within 24 hours time period at 16 different schedule time. Currently I"m planning on dosing the following schedule for my 75 gallon tank using the formula provided in OP. I will multiply it by 3 to mix it in the solution to fill in my 1500ml bottles:
> 
> 15ML for 3 times a week. I split it into half since mine can only dose within 24hrs.
> Dose Micro: 7.5ML 8:00 (8AM)
> Dose Macro: 7.5ML 20:00 (8pm)
> Dose Iron: ???????
> 
> Also, I'm planning to dose iron since this is a 3 pump system. How many grams of iron (Fe 13%) should I mix in a 1500ml ro water and time (I think I will dose it at the same time as Micro)? I heard if you add 10ml Excel solution it will help the solutions last longer and avoid the crap it will build up.
> 
> Thoughts and recommendation?


Dosing micro and macros on the same day is fine. I've done it back to back without problems so a 12 hour difference will certainly be okay. 

The full EI doses are for high light and CO2 injection. Are you injecting CO2? If not decrease the dose to a third of the full EI.

As far as iron is concerned it depends on your KH and the type of iron you have. Most people that get extra iron end up with DTPA. This is more suited for a higher KH. A 3:1 ratio of Plantex to DTPA is about right. 

The doses below are targeting 0.5ppm per dose total.

Plantex CSM+B 54.4 gm (approximately 12 3/4 teaspoons)
DTPA Fe (11%) 10.8 gm (approximately 2 3/4 teaspoons)

The levels above are for a 75 gallon tank using a container size of 500 ml and a dose size of 15 ml.

You can mix them together or dose separate no matter.

The reason adding DTPA iron is a good idea is that it lasts longer than EDTA in Plantex. Iron will become oxidized basically making it unavailable to plants. Therefore, we use chelators to protect it.

To explain with an analogy imagine a bare piece of steel exposed to very high humidity. Without wax the steel will start to rust immediately and be rusted within an hour. We can protect it with waxes. The cheaper the wax the less time it will protect.

Those grades of "waxes" are called chelators. The three main types we see are gluconate, EDTA and DTPA. In general, Iron gluconate will last a few hours at best; EDTA about 24 hours; DTPA about 48 hours. I say in general because PK/KH plays a role in the oxidation process. The higher the PH/KH the better the chelate should be. This is over simplified but basically that's how it works.


----------



## mba

Yes, I am currently pumping co2 3 bubbles per sec, lime green almost yellow appear in the drop checker. Using high lighting LED from reefbreeders (Custom, putout about 120 on par). 

My KH is about 4-5, GH 8-9, PH: 6.2-6.5. I'm planning to use ro water mix it with tap and should get kh 2 and gh 4-5 hopefully so I can host my crystal red shrimp. However my tank is not heavy planted. Should I cut back to 1/3 or 1/4 of the dosing?


----------



## Zorfox

mba said:


> Yes, I am currently pumping co2 3 bubbles per sec, lime green almost yellow appear in the drop checker. Using high lighting LED from reefbreeders (Custom, putout about 120 on par).
> 
> My KH is about 4-5, GH 8-9, PH: 6.2-6.5. I'm planning to use ro water mix it with tap and should get kh 2 and gh 4-5 hopefully so I can host my crystal red shrimp. However my tank is not heavy planted. Should I cut back to 1/3 or 1/4 of the dosing?


The PH is fine. If you have very few plants you could get away using 1/3 of EI for now. However, I haven't seen any evidence that dosing EI at full strength in a sparsely planted tank causes issues. I personally tested that theory out. I had a 10 gallon tank with a small amount of moss and a lot of RCS. No CO2 low-medium light. I dosed full EI without problems. The shrimp bred like roaches and the algae monster never visited.

I realize most people say that you need to dose X amount of EI for this or that setup. To be honest, the only disadvantage I've seen to dosing full EI is wasting a little fertilizer. Call me crazy but I can afford to burn 25 cents a week in ferts. Basically, if you're going to dose 20%, 30%, 78.999% or any other version of EI you need to do the water changes. As long as you do 50% weekly water change full EI is completely safe IMO. I've just never seen the point to narrowing down nutrient levels to near limitation.

I was not sure about dosing EI with CRS. I've never kept any shrimp other than RCS so I couln't say for sure. I googled "CRS and EI dosing". The first link listed was this, EI dosing with Crystal Red shrimp over a year. I didn't look further. Tom is not one to mince words or make false claims. The proof is in the results! nuff said.


----------



## mba

Perfect, thank you for your help. I will give it a shot. 

Also, is there anyway to do water change once every two weeks? Reduce dosing or is it always going to be weekly? I'm planning to raise some CRS and currently using 55gallon as a storage water for RO and can be a hassle to keep filling with RO water than to 75g tank at a rate of 50% water change. Trying to save some time, otherwise I might just skip CRS and do only plants and use tap water only. 

Any thoughts?



Zorfox said:


> The PH is fine. If you have very few plants you could get away using 1/3 of EI for now. However, I haven't seen any evidence that dosing EI at full strength in a sparsely planted tank causes issues. I personally tested that theory out. I had a 10 gallon tank with a small amount of moss and a lot of RCS. No CO2 low-medium light. I dosed full EI without problems. The shrimp bred like roaches and the algae monster never visited.
> 
> I realize most people say that you need to dose X amount of EI for this or that setup. To be honest, the only disadvantage I've seen to dosing full EI is wasting a little fertilizer. Call me crazy but I can afford to burn 25 cents a week in ferts. Basically, if you're going to dose 20%, 30%, 78.999% or any other version of EI you need to do the water changes. As long as you do 50% weekly water change full EI is completely safe IMO. I've just never seen the point to narrowing down nutrient levels to near limitation.
> 
> I was not sure about dosing EI with CRS. I've never kept any shrimp other than RCS so I couln't say for sure. I googled "CRS and EI dosing". The first link listed was this, EI dosing with Crystal Red shrimp over a year. I didn't look further. Tom is not one to mince words or make false claims. The proof is in the results! nuff said.


----------



## plantbrain

Zorfox said:


> I was not sure about dosing EI with CRS. I've never kept any shrimp other than RCS so I couln't say for sure. I googled "CRS and EI dosing". The first link listed was this, EI dosing with Crystal Red shrimp over a year. I didn't look further. Tom is not one to mince words or make false claims. The proof is in the results! nuff said.


Well, -rain was doing it a year before I started trying to show the naysayers were wrong(or potentially correct). She really had a lot of CRS's and was breeding them actively, unlike myself. I just keep them as pets, not as a livestock breeding colony to make more and more to sell. If they over populate and breed like mad? Great, if they slowly bred and rise in population? No issue either.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=59684&page=2


----------



## Zorfox

mba said:


> Perfect, thank you for your help. I will give it a shot.
> 
> Also, is there anyway to do water change once every two weeks? Reduce dosing or is it always going to be weekly? I'm planning to raise some CRS and currently using 55gallon as a storage water for RO and can be a hassle to keep filling with RO water than to 75g tank at a rate of 50% water change. Trying to save some time, otherwise I might just skip CRS and do only plants and use tap water only.
> 
> Any thoughts?


Yes, you can alter the dose for bi-weekly water changes. A good way to see the changes this makes is this calculator.

I'll use KNO3 dosing as an example. 

A normal EI dose targets 7.5ppm of NO3 per dose. If you dose that 3 times a week with a 50% water change the NO3 levels will range from 22.5-45ppm (with no plant uptake mind you). The upper limit will always be 6 times the dose. 6 * 7.5 = 45ppm. The lower limit will simply be the upper limit divided by 2 (50% water change). 

If you do water changes every 2 weeks the upper limit is the dose times 12. So 7.5 * 12 = 90ppm. If you want to keep the same nutrient ranges as a weekly water change what do you think the dose would be?...

If you said 50% of the weekly water change dose you get a gold star! Every three weeks? Divide by 3. Monthly water changes? Divide by 4 etc.

Run the numbers through the calculator and see what you come up with :icon_wink.


----------



## Zorfox

plantbrain said:


> Well, -rain was doing it a year before I started trying to show the naysayers were wrong(or potentially correct). She really had a lot of CRS's and was breeding them actively, unlike myself. I just keep them as pets, not as a livestock breeding colony to make more and more to sell. If they over populate and breed like mad? Great, if they slowly bred and rise in population? No issue either.
> 
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=59684&page=2


Thanks for the link. It was quite interesting. I like how you don't coddle people and simply tell it like it is. Too many people stick their heads in the sand and continually perpetuate myths without delving deeper. It never ceases to amaze me how many myths there are in this hobby. Even more amazing is the resistance hobbyist's have to accepting the truth when the evidence is staring them square in the face. I suppose the world will always be flat to a few.

I'll have to look into CRS now that I know I don't have to house them in an intensive care unit. I really like the color contrast.


----------



## quietdusk

Many thanks to Zorfox and Tom for the very helpful and enlightening info in this thread! I know this info is around the internet but it's nice to come across it while browsing the forums rather than sifting through all the results of a search.


----------



## erimar

Great thread!


----------



## JP55g

This should be a sticky perhaps?
This is a great thread, time-saving and informative.


----------



## Ryan9316

Just for clarification, all three ferts can be mixed in (1) 500ML bottle, or do they require (1) 500ML Bottle each?


----------



## PhilipS

You can use a 250ml. Just scale the amount of powder.

ADA 250ml bottles have 1ml pumps.


----------



## Zorfox

All three macros can be mixed (KNO3, KH2PO4 and the optional K2SO4). Leave the Plantex CSM +B to it's own container. You can mix all three in a single bottle together.

It's a good idea to add 2-3 teaspoons of white vinegar to the water first (especially for the trace mix). This will destroy any carbonates that can react with nutrients. It will also act as a preservative to prevent mold. Warming the water helps the fertilizers dissolve easier as well.


----------



## Ryan9316

Excellent, so a macro and micro bottle. I'm assuming I don't need the vinegar treatment if I'm using RO? Thanks for posting this, it makes things much easer. Also, I can't believe the value of using dry ferts. 1LB of each will give me enough for ~3 years of use, compared to the same price for SeaChem for ~30 weeks.


----------



## Zorfox

Ryan9316 said:


> Excellent, so a macro and micro bottle.


Yes. I personally like separating everything but that's just me.



Ryan9316 said:


> I'm assuming I don't need the vinegar treatment if I'm using RO?


Not for destroying the KH. However, it still can act as a preservative for the micros. 5-10ml of excel works as well.



Ryan9316 said:


> Also, I can't believe the value of using dry ferts. 1LB of each will give me enough for ~3 years of use, compared to the same price for SeaChem for ~30 weeks.


Yup. Once people make the dry fertilizer plunge they realize this. They also realize it's much easier than they thought. No need for a doctorate in chemistry. Simply mix in water and dose. No different than making Kool-aid.


----------



## gcmatt87

So, I did not realize that I needed to mix the macros and the micros into separate containers until it was too late, so I have one big 500 ml mixture of micros/macros combined. Is there some hugely negative side effect to having it all in one mixture, or is it more of a preference? I would hate to have to throw out all that fertilizer if I don't have to...

Also, for my low-light tank, I understand that I can just 1/3 all of the doses, but do I also 1/3 the 500ml down to 166 ml or do I still mix the thirded doses into 500 ml of water?


----------



## PhilipS

gcmatt87 said:


> I did not realize that I needed to mix the macros and the micros into separate containers


That's ok for the first time. Use the calculators (rota.la) to determine dosing. Yes, you can use lees ferts for low tech.

I like separate bottles for each because I use a lot of top off water daily.


----------



## Jalopy

The iron and phosphate would react and precipitate out of the solution so it's unavailable. But if the water's pH is acidic then the chelated iron will stay chelated I think. Look up James's planted tank website on Google, he had a good explanation of this along with recipes to follow.


----------



## jeffturneraz

Can someone recommend a brand of scale to seek on eBay or do you all believe they are equal?

Being that I need readings for .01 grams....is one more consistent?


----------



## Ghia

jeffturneraz said:


> Can someone recommend a brand of scale to seek on eBay or do you all believe they are equal?
> 
> Being that I need readings for .01 grams....is one more consistent?


I don't really know if one is more consistent than another. They're mostly no-name type scales anyway. I've had the one called "LCD Pocket Digital Precision Jewelry Gold Gram Balance Weight Scale 500g/0.1g" for 3 years now, and it has performed flawlessly. The whole thing with these precision instruments is to buy a couple of calibration weights, that way you will always know how accurate your instrument is.
(Can't link to the item, but if you search for "digital scale" it will be on the first page about 10 items down).


----------



## FatherLandDescendant

Ghia said:


> I don't really know if one is more consistent than another. They're mostly no-name type scales anyway. I've had the one called "LCD Pocket Digital Precision Jewelry Gold Gram Balance Weight Scale 500g/0.1g" for 3 years now, and it has performed flawlessly. The whole thing with these precision instruments is to buy a couple of calibration weights, that way you will always know how accurate your instrument is.
> (Can't link to the item, but if you search for "digital scale" it will be on the first page about 10 items down).


The scale I just bought came with the weights.


----------



## Zorfox

edit: posted in the wrong thread. No idea how to delete a post .


----------



## FatherLandDescendant

Zorfox said:


> edit: posted in the wrong thread. No idea how to delete a post .


You can't... Even in your own thread, I was told that it would cause to many problems if we were allowed to, what kind of problems it could create is a mystery?


----------



## Zorfox

FatherLandDescendant said:


> You can't... Even in your own thread, I was told that it would cause to many problems if we were allowed to, what kind of problems it could create is a mystery?


Cool. So I'm not an idiot lol. Thanks


----------



## HunterX

Zorfox,

Thank you for the information. I read some information on another website that I was hopeing someone here could confirm or debunk. 

I read that reducing KNO3 and increasing Phospates, along with the normaly prescribed dose of fe2, would help bring out the reds / purples / pinks in plants.

If that isn't true? Andy advice on increasing the reds in plants would be appreciated.


----------



## bcarrot

This is awesome, thanks! I have a 50g tank. Would you recommend dosing for a 55g or a 46g?


----------



## Zorfox

HunterX said:


> I read that reducing KNO3 and increasing Phospates, along with the normaly prescribed dose of fe2, would help bring out the reds / purples / pinks in plants.
> 
> If that isn't true? Andy advice on increasing the reds in plants would be appreciated.


Running lean on nitrogen (KNO3) can improve reds. However, I think a better option is to apply nutrients in excess for all the plants rather than focusing on one aspect. Growing healthy plants addresses most problems we see. Choose plants that are inherently red and not ones that change colors based on nitrogen levels.

Once you address issues to improve overall plant health then you can experiment with various spectrums of light to augment the appearance of reds. After all, everything we see is reflected light. Increasing various colors of you lighting will reflect more of the colors you're looking to improve. Tom Bar does this with his "120 gallon Dutch Planted something or another" tank. He explains the bulbs he uses in the many threads about this tank.



bcarrot said:


> This is awesome, thanks! I have a 50g tank. Would you recommend dosing for a 55g or a 46g?


Either. The amounts listed are for non-limiting nutrients. This means we don't need to be too concerned about exact amounts. That said, the actual amount of water you have in a 50g will be closer to 46 gallons since the substrate, hardscape and plants displace water. 

Here is another post I made about non-limiting nutrients. This suggestion will make more sense once you understand the basic concept of non-limiting nutrients.


----------



## bcarrot

Ok, so just kinda talking this out to make sure I've got everything correct. Here is my scenario: 50g tank, high light, injecting CO2. I'll be dosing based on the 46g calculation and adjust from there if there are any issues. I plan on using an auto doser. So, I will mix the following amounts of ferts in 500mL (macros and micros in seperate 500mL bottles) of R/O water and program the doser to dispense 10mL of each solution. Macros on Mondays, Wednesdays, & Fridays? Micros on Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Saturdays? 50% water change on Sundays?

*10ml/46 Gallons*
KNO3 106.5 gm (approximately 20 1/2 teaspoons)
KH2PO4 16.2 gm (approximately 3 teaspoons)
Plantex CSM+B 66.7 gm (approximately 15 1/2 teaspoons)
Optional: K2SO4 43.4 gm (approximately 6 3/4 teaspoons)


----------



## Zorfox

You got it. There's not much more to it really. It's that simple. :icon_wink


----------



## bcarrot

Sweeeet! This has just made things super simple for me! Thank you!!!


----------



## FishStix

This is great information, so my question is what would I use for 250 gallon tank? High light, CO2.

This is what I figured, but seems to high to me. 


KNO3 (approximately 44 1/2 teaspoons)
KH2PO4 (approximately 6 1/4 teaspoons)
Plantex CSM+B (approximately 33 1/2 teaspoons)


----------



## Zorfox

FishStix said:


> This is great information, so my question is what would I use for 250 gallon tank? High light, CO2.
> 
> This is what I figured, but seems to high to me.
> 
> 
> KNO3 (approximately 44 1/2 teaspoons)
> KH2PO4 (approximately 6 1/4 teaspoons)
> Plantex CSM+B (approximately 33 1/2 teaspoons)


It is too high. The fertilizers wouldn't dissolve in such a small amount of water. For such a large tank dry dosing would be easier IMO.

However, if for whatever reason you want to dose a solution you can use the amounts below. 

*Mix in 1,000ml* of water and use a dose size of 50ml

*50ml/250 Gallons*

Optional: K2SO4 94.903 gm (approximately 14 3/4 teaspoons)
KNO3 231.459 gm (approximately 44 1/2 teaspoons)
KH2PO4 35.256 gm (approximately 6 1/4 teaspoons)
Plantex CSM+B 144.925 gm (approximately 33 3/4 teaspoons)


----------



## FishStix

Zorfox said:


> It is too high. The fertilizers wouldn't dissolve in such a small amount of water. For such a large tank dry dosing would be easier IMO.
> 
> However, if for whatever reason you want to dose a solution you can use the amounts below.
> 
> *Mix in 1,000ml* of water and use a dose size of 50ml
> 
> *50ml/250 Gallons*
> 
> Optional: K2SO4 94.903 gm (approximately 14 3/4 teaspoons)
> KNO3 231.459 gm (approximately 44 1/2 teaspoons)
> KH2PO4 35.256 gm (approximately 6 1/4 teaspoons)
> Plantex CSM+B 144.925 gm (approximately 33 3/4 teaspoons)


Thanks for the information, I think for now I will do the dry dosing. I plan to get a dosing pump, but that 6 months down the road.

Now to try and figure out what I would need to dose dry.


----------



## Zorfox

FishStix said:


> Thanks for the information, I think for now I will do the dry dosing. I plan to get a dosing pump, but that 6 months down the road.
> 
> Now to try and figure out what I would need to dose dry.


If you are looking to buy them I would get 

*Definitely get*:
KNO3 
KH2PO4
Plantex CSM +B

*Optionally*, _The cost of the fertilizers is quite low. You might as well get them now to save on shipping. These are nice to have around just in case you ever need them:_
K2SO4
DTPA Iron (any percentage is fine)
GH Booster if you have very soft water

You can buy them from a member here, NilOCG. He has everything you need and says he will beat any price. Otherwise, there are several commercial sources.


Dry amounts to dose for 250 gallons 
Optional: K2SO4 5.272 gm (approximately 3/4 teaspoons)
KNO3 11.573 gm (approximately 2 1/4 teaspoons)
KH2PO4 1.763 gm (approximately 1/4 teaspoons)
Plantex CSM+B 7.246 gm (approximately 1 3/4 teaspoons)


----------



## FishStix

Zorfox said:


> If you are looking to buy them I would get
> 
> *Definitely get*:
> KNO3
> KH2PO4
> Plantex CSM +B
> 
> *Optionally*, _The cost of the fertilizers is quite low. You might as well get them now to save on shipping. These are nice to have around just in case you ever need them:_
> K2SO4
> DTPA Iron (any percentage is fine)
> GH Booster if you have very soft water
> 
> You can buy them from a member here, NilOCG. He has everything you need and says he will beat any price. Otherwise, there are several commercial sources.
> 
> 
> Dry amounts to dose for 250 gallons
> Optional: K2SO4 5.272 gm (approximately 3/4 teaspoons)
> KNO3 11.573 gm (approximately 2 1/4 teaspoons)
> KH2PO4 1.763 gm (approximately 1/4 teaspoons)
> Plantex CSM+B 7.246 gm (approximately 1 3/4 teaspoons)


Thanks so much for your help and advise. I did place an order with suggested items from NilOCG. Should have everything needed now, also ordered Osmocote Plus.

How often should I be dosing the above?
Also I purchased Iron Chelate how much of that do you suggest and how often?

Thanks again for all your help.


----------



## Zorfox

FishStix said:


> Thanks so much for your help and advise. I did place an order with suggested items from NilOCG. Should have everything needed now, also ordered Osmocote Plus.
> 
> How often should I be dosing the above?
> Also I purchased Iron Chelate how much of that do you suggest and how often?
> 
> Thanks again for all your help.


I prefer dosing something everyday. I tend to remember to dose this way. Alternating the Plantex and/or iron with the rest can prevent reactions. 

Example,
Mon KNO3, KH2PO4
Tues Plantex and/or iron
Wed KNO3, KH2PO4
Thur Plantex and/or iron
Fri KNO3, KH2PO4
Sat Plantex and/or iron
Sun 50% water change no dosing unless you need GH booster then add that.

You can add 1/4 teaspoon of DTPA when you dose the Plantex. That will add another 0.125ppm of DTPA iron which is a better option for harder water.


----------



## lind

How much iron would you dose for a 55 gallon tank using the liquid bottles and can it be mixed with the Plantex?


----------



## Zorfox

lind said:


> How much iron would you dose for a 55 gallon tank using the liquid bottles and can it be mixed with the Plantex?


Yes it can be mixed with Plantex. A ratio of 3 parts Plantex to 1 part iron is about right. That mixture can be targeted for 0.5ppm for each dose. 

Dose 10ml of the solution below for 0.5ppm of total iron. If you don't have 11% DTPA iron no worries. Just dose around the same amount. Always round up in the case of non-limiting nutrients. As long as you're doing frequent water changes more really is better. 

Add 59.782 gm of Plantex CSM+B to your 500 ML container. 59.782 gm is approximately 14 teaspoons(s)

Add 11.83 gm of DTPA Fe (11%) to your 500 ML container. 11.83 gm is approximately 3 1/16 teaspoons(s)

Dose 10ml three times per week.


----------



## lind

And the other bottle would be:
15ml dose

KNO3 84.868 gm (approximately 16 1/4 teaspoons)
KH2PO4 12.927 gm (approximately 2 1/4 teaspoons)
Optional: K2SO4 34.024 gm (approximately 5 1/4 teaspoons)

Is that correct?


----------



## Zorfox

lind said:


> And the other bottle would be:
> 15ml dose
> 
> KNO3 84.868 gm (approximately 16 1/4 teaspoons)
> KH2PO4 12.927 gm (approximately 2 1/4 teaspoons)
> Optional: K2SO4 34.024 gm (approximately 5 1/4 teaspoons)
> 
> Is that correct?


Yup. You got it.


----------



## lind

I am not sure on this:

#1
EI based NPK + CSM+B with GH booster - $26 Shipped
2lb KNO3, 1/2lb KH2PO4, 1lb GH booster, and 1/2lb CSM+B
Add 1/2lb Iron Chelate 10% for $8.50

or

#2
EI based NPK + CSM+B - $22 Shipped
2lb KNO3, 1/2lb KH2PO4, 1/2lb K2SO4, and 1/2lb CSM+B
Add 1/2lb Iron Chelate 10% for $8.50


#1 has GH booster and no K2SO4. Is it a choice of which one to reach results?


Also noticed, DFPA Fe is 10% not 11%. Does this make a difference in dosing quantites?

Thank you for all your help.


----------



## Zorfox

I would go for #2. GH Booster is used to raise GH (Calcium and magnesium). If you're using tap water your GH should be more than enough in Florida. The reason K2SO4 is not included with #1 is that the GH booster contains K2SO4.

The dosing difference between 10% and 11% DTPA iron is negligible. The difference in the two doses is about 50mg. Hardly worth worrying about.


----------



## lind

Thank You Zorfox. Do you happen to know if the GH booster can be sued on shrimp tanks?


----------



## Zorfox

I'm far from a shrimp expert. However, the short answer is it depends on the shrimp. Some are more sensitive to GH than others. I know cherry shrimp can deal with a huge GH range. That's the only type I've kept. Asking that question in the Shrimp & Other Invertebrates sub forum would yield better answers.


----------



## lind

I did ask in the other sub forum but did not really get an answer. Thank you so much Zorfox.


----------



## Linwood

If this hasn't shown up for people it is a useful thread, as it concludes with formula to mix the equilivent of the seachem solutions from dry ferts: 

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=128657&page=2

There's one aspect of all this that still confuses me. The Seachem Iron is not chelated (per Seachem) but the DTPA mentioned in the thread is, right? So these are not really equivalent?


----------



## Raymond S.

Good day Zorfox,
I hope you will remember that I got a dosing formula from you on my two 10g tanks. I asked for an equivalent dosing for PPS Pro in liquids that I already have in order to use them up.It also was to allow me to water change 50% once a month. This was it...2 ml of Flourish comp and 3.5 ml of Tetra Pride. I finally stopped tryito force everything to work as I wanted it to by using high light with Excel only due to the excess algae that resulted. I now have both tanks on one T8 bulb each. They had two bulbs each, but one had T8 and the other had T5 and Excel.
This is what I am now dosing...but I would like to change it to all dry.
But of equal amounts of each nutrient.
2 ml Flourish comp and 3.5 ml of Tetra Pride
Plus
1/64 tsp KH2PO4
1/32 tsp Fe %10
1/16 tsp KNO3
1/32 tsp CSM+b
1/32 tsp MGSO4
1/4 tsp CaSO4
I do keep RCS and the TDS meter says 185 with this dosing. The tap is close to 100-110.
I would like to convert all this to dry only.
I have not tested the nitrates lately but each tank has a low bio-load in it. I just increased the bio-load in one without much RCS so the 
nitrates would raise but yet to check it. If I have a nitrate issue in one I do have K2SO4. Thank you in advance for this.
Almost forgot to mention...I went from one 50% water change per month to two, one every other week.


----------



## Zorfox

If remember correctly both tanks were 10 gallons?

Using low light and Excel I would simply use 1/3 of the dose listed for 10 gallons. There is no need for the Flourish comprehensive and Tetra Pride if you're dosing the Plantex and KNO3. KNO3, KH2PO4 and Plantex should be plenty. If you want the extra iron use 3 parts Plantex and 1 part iron for the trace rather than all Plantex.

The amounts of dry fertilizers for a low tech 10 gallon are simply too small to dose dry IMO. I would stick to solutions.

This is a 1/3 solution. Dose every other day.

*5ml/10 gallons*

KNO3 15.4 gm (approximately 3 teaspoons)
KH2PO4 2.3 gm (approximately 1/2 teaspoons)
Plantex CSM+B 9.6 gm (approximately 2 1/4 teaspoons)
Optional: K2SO4 6.3 gm (approximately 1 teaspoons)


----------



## nilocg

Zorfox said:


> If remember correctly both tanks were 10 gallons?
> 
> Using low light and Excel I would simply use 1/3 of the dose listed for 10 gallons. There is no need for the Flourish comprehensive and Tetra Pride if you're dosing the Plantex and KNO3. KNO3, KH2PO4 and Plantex should be plenty. If you want the extra iron use 3 parts Plantex and 1 part iron for the trace rather than all Plantex.
> 
> The amounts of dry fertilizers for a low tech 10 gallon are simply too small to dose dry IMO. I would stick to solutions.
> 
> This is a 1/3 solution. Dose every other day.
> 
> *5ml/10 gallons*
> 
> KNO3 15.4 gm (approximately 3 teaspoons)
> KH2PO4 2.3 gm (approximately 1/2 teaspoons)
> Plantex CSM+B 9.6 gm (approximately 2 1/4 teaspoons)
> Optional: K2SO4 6.3 gm (approximately 1 teaspoons)



Zorfox, do you think in this instance that there would be a big advantage to dosing 1/3 the normal amount 3x per week versus 1 full dose 1x per week? 

For that matter, would dosing the full amount 3x per week on a high light, co2 tank be better than dosing 3x the amount 1x per week? At the end of the week you would be dosing the same amount and I think we have seen that excess nutrients do not cause algae. What is your opinion on this(Im assuming there is a reason we all dose 3x per week, just thinking out loud)?


----------



## TECKSPEED

+1 on the above I never fully understood why we dose 3x a week if dosing once a week could work, although fluctuating levels in ferts my be a valid point?? 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


----------



## Raymond S.

Yet is this not why we use CEC subs ?
Sorry for the misunderstanding Zorfoz. Yes it is 10g tanks but no there is no longer Excel. I wanted to get all of that combined so I wouldn't be reducing the ferts by dropping the liquids.
But I completely agree to use a solution. And the one you listed is quite adequate. I have an AR plant that I have a cutting from the same mother plant in both tanks. In one the sub is inert gravel with Flourite over it. In the other the sub is 40 Oz of Laterite(the directions say to use 10 Oz for a 10g tank)with Eco complete over it. In this tank rooted plants are burned up by the excess iron. In this tank the AR cutting is much more red that it is in the other tank. Extra iron may not help most red plants to be more red, but it looks like it works on AR.
No other differences in these tanks now.


----------



## Zorfox

nilocg said:


> Zorfox, do you think in this instance that there would be a big advantage to dosing 1/3 the normal amount 3x per week versus 1 full dose 1x per week?
> 
> For that matter, would dosing the full amount 3x per week on a high light, co2 tank be better than dosing 3x the amount 1x per week? At the end of the week you would be dosing the same amount and I think we have seen that excess nutrients do not cause algae. What is your opinion on this(Im assuming there is a reason we all dose 3x per week, just thinking out loud)?


As I understand it, the macros can be dosed less frequently. I personally have a 10 gallon low tech shrimp tank. I dose the 5 gallons I add each week with one full EI dose then refill the tank with that. I do however dose my micros three times per week. The micros are chelated so they tend to breakdown. Many of them will not last more than 48 hours.

The high tech I do dose macros three times per week. It has nothing to do with whether they breakdown or cause fluctuations. I'm as absent minded as a...wait. what was I saying? Oh yes, I do that so I don't forget to dose. The tank gets something everyday. Believe me, some days I can't remember what day it is much less if I dosed yesterday or not. :confused1:

@Raymond. If you're not dosing Excel you can even do with less than I suggested. Maybe 10% of EI. Although, as long as you keep up the water changes it certainly won't hurt a thing.


----------



## nilocg

Ah yes, that makes sense. Thanks.


----------



## vanish

Alright, let's see if I can do this... Starting with the following from the table:

----------------------------------------------------------------------

*15ml/75 Gallons*

KNO3 115.7 gm (approximately 22 1/4 teaspoons)
Plantex CSM+B 72.5 gm (approximately 16 3/4 teaspoons)
KH2PO4 17.6 gm (approximately 3 1/8 teaspoons)
Optional: K2SO4 47 gm (approximately 7 1/4 teaspoons)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm running a 75G tank that is indicating low Nitrares and Phospates, so dosing macros seems like a good idea. I currently dose 100ml diluted Metricide 14 daily using an automatic system. Everything I've read indicates there should be no issue mixing macros with glut and that it even wards off bad stuff.

Since I am not doing CO2,it is recommended to reduce the figures above to 1/3 of the indicated dosage. I want to err on the lower side, since doing 50% water changes on my 75G is not easy for me (I generally do two 15-20% WC weekly), so I will cut that to 1/4 of the amounts listed above.

I'll be dosing daily, so that's 3/7 of the 15ml dose. My reservoir holds 20 days of doses, so multiplying previous by 20, I should have ~128.6ml of the fert solution mixed in as part of my 2000ml diluted metricide solution.

Mixing up 500 ml of ferts should give me ~80 days of dosing. Everything sound logical?


----------



## Zorfox

I'm a little confused about your post.

Did you want to mix your macros in the glut solution? If so, I have no idea if that is a good idea. My guess would be that it's not.

100ml if the glut solution sounds like a lot. However, I'm not sure how diluted you mixed it. Here is a calculator for mixing the Metricide with water.

Using 1/4 of the solution above sounds fine. If you tell me the dose and container size you want to use I can calculate the 1/4 solutions for you. I just hate to make a suggestion since I'm a little confused about what you're asking.


----------



## vanish

Zorfox: Mixing glut and macros is discussed in this thread: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=548217 You even commented there 

I'll try to explain differently.

0.) I have the glut part working and its great, that's been going for almost a month. That calculator is diluting the Metricide 14 to the same strength as Excel for those who are used to dosing Excel. My solution is more dilute.

1.) 75 Gallon Tank
2.) Autodoser outputs 100mL of diluted solution daily
3.) Container is 2000mL
4.) Dose 1/4 EI


----------



## Zorfox

The common use of mixing glut with nutrients are as a preservative. Omitting the water in lieu of glut is something I have never tried. Apparently from that thread Diana has had success doing that. I simply can't say for sure what the outcome would be. Let me know how it works out for you.

The amounts below are for 25% EI daily dosing for a 75 gallon tank using a container size of 2000 ml and a dose size of 100 ml.

KNO3 7.407 gm (approximately 1 1/2 teaspoons)
KH2PO4 1.22 gm (approximately 1/4 teaspoons)
K2SO4 2.959 gm (approximately 1/2 teaspoons)

Each 100ml dose will raise 75 gallons by the following amounts (25% of normal EI daily dose),

NO3	0.8
N	0.180712865
PO4	0.15
P	0.048919258
K	0.8
S	0.095877174


----------



## vanish

Awesome, thanks Zorfox! I came up with those same numbers last night, so I'd say we've got it!


Note: I haven't omitted the water completely, I have about a 60/40 mix of water/metricide.


----------



## synaethetic

Zorfox, great thread. Very informative.


----------



## tylergvolk

Great thread. Very helpful!


----------



## Django

Zorfox - I woould like to thank you for your recipes in this thread. I used the recipe for my 10g to make up my EI/4 macros and micros. It helped me a lot. I have also passed along a link to this thread to several people who were dealing with the issue of fert dosing. Thanks.

Steven


----------



## Zorfox

Django said:


> Zorfox - I woould like to thank you for your recipes in this thread. I used the recipe for my 10g to make up my EI/4 macros and micros. It helped me a lot. I have also passed along a link to this thread to several people who were dealing with the issue of fert dosing. Thanks.
> 
> Steven


That's nice to hear. Thanks!


----------



## Italionstallion888

I followed the 5ml/20g solutions on my 20g long. I noticed after I mixed them all. I had a lot that wouldn't dissolve. 500ml of r/o water. 

Here are the results after 2 weeks. Pressurized co2, 2 24 inch t5s colormax and 6700k, 7 hrs. Finnex ultra slim r (right side) 7 hrs, staggered 30 min apart. 













































All of the above are under the t5s, get low light levels from the finnex.

Right side, directly under the fugeray clip on. Get some wash from the t5s









Most of the hygros look great up top, halfway down lots of holes as you can see, and bare stems. The t5s are 5 inches above the tank. 

My concerns are excess ferts in both npk and csm+b/fe (10%) I'm not sure what to adjust.


----------



## wildstick

Zorfox said:


> NO3	7.5 ppm
> N	1.694 ppm
> PO4	1.3 ppm
> P	0.424 ppm
> K	5.3 ppm (7.5 ppm with additional K2SO4)
> Fe	0.5 ppm
> Mg	0.107 ppm
> dGH	0.025 ppm
> Cu	0.007 ppm
> B	0.061 ppm
> Mn	0.143 ppm
> Mo	0.004 ppm
> S	(0.917 ppm with additional K2SO4)
> Zn	0.028 ppm


does this numbers were each dose? or weekly?


----------



## nanomania

Zorfox said:


> There seems to be a lot of confusion about how to mix nutrient solutions. Below are basic recipes for solutions or dry dosing for common US tank sizes. Every solution or dry dose will provide the exact levels shown below. These should be dosed 3 time per week based on high light and CO2 injection with a 50% weekly water change. Low light and no CO2 simply use 1/3 of the dosing listed with the same 50%weekly water change.
> 
> Since KNO3 (potassium nitrate) provides significant potassium K2SO4 is optional. The K2SO4 doses listed below provide 2.2 ppm of potassium which raises potassium to the full EI level. This is usually not necessary.
> 
> Mix the amount given in 500ml of water, preferably R/O or distilled. Doses vary as listed depending on tank size.
> 
> NO37.5 ppm
> N1.694 ppm
> PO41.3 ppm
> P0.424 ppm
> K5.3 ppm (7.5 ppm with additional K2SO4)
> Fe0.5 ppm
> Mg0.107 ppm
> dGH0.025 ppm
> Cu0.007 ppm
> B0.061 ppm
> Mn0.143 ppm
> Mo0.004 ppm
> S(0.917 ppm with additional K2SO4)
> Zn0.028 ppm
> 
> *1ml/Gallon*
> 
> KNO3 23.1 gm (approximately 4 1/2 teaspoons)
> KH2PO4 3.5 gm (approximately 3/4 teaspoons)
> Plantex CSM+B 14.5 gm (approximately 3 1/4 teaspoons)
> Optional: K2SO4 9.4 gm (approximately 1 1/2 teaspoons)
> 
> _Dry Dosing per 1 gallon
> KNO3 46.3 mg (too small to use teaspoon measures)
> KH2PO4 7 mg (too small to use teaspoon measures)
> Plantex CSM+B 29 mg (too small to use teaspoon measures)
> K2SO4 19 mg (too small to use teaspoon measures)_
> 
> *5ml/10 gallons*
> 
> KNO3 46.3 gm (approximately 9 teaspoons)
> KH2PO4 7 gm (approximately 1 1/4 teaspoons)
> Plantex CSM+B 29 gm (approximately 6 3/4 teaspoons)
> Optional: K2SO4 19 gm (approximately 3 teaspoons)
> 
> _Dry Dosing
> Optional: K2SO4 189 mg (approximately 1/32 teaspoons)
> KNO3 463 mg (approximately 1/16 teaspoons)
> KH2PO4 71 mg (too small to use teaspoon measures)
> Plantex CSM+B 290 mg (approximately 1/16 teaspoons)_
> 
> *5ml/20 Gallons*
> 
> KNO3 93 gm (approximately 17 3/4 teaspoons)
> KH2PO4 14 gm (approximately 2 1/2 teaspoons)
> Plantex CSM+B 58 gm (approximately 13 1/2 teaspoons)
> Optional: K2SO4 38 gm (approximately 6 teaspoons)
> 
> _Dry Dosing
> Optional: K2SO4 377 mg (approximately 1/16 teaspoons)
> KNO3 926 mg (approximately 1/8 teaspoons)
> KH2PO4 141 mg (approximately 1/32 teaspoons)
> Plantex CSM+B 580 mg (approximately 1/8 teaspoons)_
> 
> *10ml/29 Gallons*
> 
> KNO3 67.123 gm (approximately 13 teaspoons)
> KH2PO4 10.224 gm (approximately 1 3/4 teaspoons)
> Plantex CSM+B 42.028 gm (approximately 9 3/4
> Optional: K2SO4 26.91 gm (approximately 4 1/4 teaspoons)
> 
> _Dry Dosing
> Optional: K2SO4 547 mg (approximately 1/16 teaspoons)
> KNO3 1.3 gm (approximately 1/4 teaspoons)
> KH2PO4 204.5 mg (approximately 1/32 teaspoons)
> Plantex CSM+B 841 mg (approximately 1/4 teaspoons)_
> 
> *10ml/40 Gallons*
> 
> KNO3 92.5 gm (approximately 17 3/4 teaspoons)
> KH2PO4 14 gm (approximately 2 1/2 teaspoons)
> Plantex CSM+B 58 gm (approximately 13 1/2 teaspoons)
> Optional: K2SO4 38 gm (approximately 6 teaspoons)
> 
> _Dry Dosing
> Optional: K2SO4 754.5 mg (approximately 1/8 teaspoons)
> KNO3 1.8 gm (approximately 1/4 teaspoons)
> KH2PO4 282 mg (approximately 1/16 teaspoons)
> Plantex CSM+B 1.2 gm (approximately 1/4 teaspoons)_
> 
> *10ml/46 Gallons*
> 
> KNO3 106.5 gm (approximately 20 1/2 teaspoons)
> KH2PO4 16.2 gm (approximately 3 teaspoons)
> Plantex CSM+B 66.7 gm (approximately 15 1/2 teaspoons)
> Optional: K2SO4 43.4 gm (approximately 6 3/4 teaspoons)
> 
> _Dry Dosing
> Optional: K2SO4 867.7 mg (approximately 1/8 teaspoons)
> KNO3 2.1 gm (approximately 1/2 teaspoons)
> KH2PO4 324.4 mg (approximately 1/16 teaspoons)
> Plantex CSM+B 1.3 gm (approximately 1/4 teaspoons)_
> 
> *15ml/55 Gallons*
> 
> KNO3 84.868 gm (approximately 16 1/4 teaspoons)
> KH2PO4 12.927 gm (approximately 2 1/4 teaspoons)
> Plantex CSM+B 53.139 gm (approximately 12 1/4 teaspoons)
> Optional: K2SO4 34.024 gm (approximately 5 1/4 teaspoons)
> 
> _Dry Dosing
> Optional: K2SO4 1 gm (approximately 1/8 teaspoons)
> KNO3 2.5 gm (approximately 1/2 teaspoons)
> KH2PO4 388 mg (approximately 1/16 teaspoons)
> Plantex CSM+B 1.6 gm (approximately 1/4 teaspoons)_
> 
> *15ml/75 Gallons*
> 
> KNO3 115.7 gm (approximately 22 1/4 teaspoons)
> Plantex CSM+B 72.5 gm (approximately 16 3/4 teaspoons)
> KH2PO4 17.6 gm (approximately 3 1/8 teaspoons)
> Optional: K2SO4 47 gm (approximately 7 1/4 teaspoons)
> 
> _Dry Dosing
> Optional: K2SO4 1.4 gm (approximately 1/4 teaspoons)
> KNO3 3.5 gm (approximately 3/4 teaspoons)
> KH2PO4 529 mg (approximately 1/8 teaspoons)
> Plantex CSM+B 2.2 gm (approximately 1/2 teaspoons)_
> 
> *20ml/90 Gallons*
> 
> KNO3 104.2 gm (approximately 20 1/32 teaspoons)
> KH2PO4 15.9 gm (approximately 2 3/4 teaspoons)
> Plantex CSM+B 65.2 gm (approximately 15 1/8 teaspoons)
> Optional: K2SO4 42.4 gm (approximately 6 3/4 teaspoons)
> 
> _Dry Dosing
> Optional: K2SO4 1.7 gm (approximately 1/4 teaspoons)
> KNO3 4.2 gm (approximately 3/4 teaspoons)
> KH2PO4 635 mg (approximately 1/8 teaspoons)
> Plantex CSM+B 2.6 gm (approximately 1/2 teaspoons)_
> 
> *25ml/125 Gallons*
> 
> KNO3 115.7 gm (approximately 22 1/4 teaspoons)
> KH2PO4 17.6 gm (approximately 3 1/8 teaspoons)
> Plantex CSM+B 72.5 gm (approximately 16 3/4 teaspoons)
> Optional: K2SO4 47.2 gm (approximately 7 1/4 teaspoons)
> 
> 
> _Dry Dosing
> Optional: K2SO4 2.4 gm (approximately 1/4 teaspoons)
> KNO3 5.8 gm (approximately 1 1/8 teaspoons)
> KH2PO4 881.4 mg (approximately 1/8 teaspoons)
> Plantex CSM+B 3.6 gm (approximately 3/4 teaspoons)_


Hey bro, thts an awsm info, i have a 130g, a 12g and a 15g. Well i am planning to make 3 diff bottles, 1 potassim 2 csmb 3 iron (if needed since i have too many red plants) i dont wana make 1 bottle for all. What shud i do? Also di dont wana add extra po4 no3 in my tank, i do monthly wc and not weekly... also im plannin on low dosing of glut...


----------



## PhilipS

Recommend one bottle for the smaller tanks, 15G & 12G. 

When you use the calculator the dose is the same:

1g of KNO3 & CSM, 211mg of KH2PO4. Adding each to a 500ml bottle. That's what I use for my Mr12. I dose 30ml because I top off daily.

Sometimes you will find dosing bottles in the sale/section.


----------



## nanomania

webskipper said:


> Recommend one bottle for the smaller tanks, 15G & 12G.
> 
> When you use the calculator the dose is the same:
> 
> 1g of KNO3 & CSM, 211mg of KH2PO4. Adding each to a 500ml bottle. That's what I use for my Mr12. I dose 30ml because I top off daily.
> 
> Sometimes you will find dosing bottles in the sale/section.


I already have 500ml dosing bottles... so u dont add any sulfates? And u recomending to mix potassium nitrate with csmb?


----------



## PhilipS

I use a bottle for each fert.

I add sulfates when I add GH Booster with water changes.


----------



## denske

Dry Dosing
Optional: K2SO4 867.7 mg (approximately 1/8 teaspoons)
KNO3 2.1 gm (approximately 1/2 teaspoons)
KH2PO4 324.4 mg (approximately 1/16 teaspoons)
Plantex CSM+B 1.3 gm (approximately 1/4 teaspoons)

Are there numbers missing inside the parenthesis?


----------



## PhilipS

The Teaspoons are fractions. 

If you are going to dry dose then find a mini measuring spoon set with schmidgen, pinch, dash, 1/8, 1/4, 1/2, 1 tsp. & 1 Tbsp.

At least dissolve the dry ferts overnight before dropping into the water.


----------



## FatherLandDescendant

webskipper said:


> At least dissolve the dry ferts overnight before dropping into the water.


Don't need to, that's why they call it dry dosing...

Been dosing the dry salts straight into the tank(s) for over a year now with no problem.


----------



## burr740

FatherLandDescendant said:


> Don't need to, that's why they call it dry dosing...
> 
> Been dosing the dry salts straight into the tank(s) for over a year now with no problem.


Same here


----------



## Maverick2015

I love dry dosing because I can just spoon them into the water. Even if the fish try to eat some it isn't an issue.


----------



## nanomania

Final formula, is this correct?

Fertilizer Dosing - Macros
Potassium Nitrate 50gms
Potassium phosphate 5gms
Potassium sulphate 50gms
Magnesium sulphate 60gms
Add these in 500ml water
Dosing: 15ml for 100 litre x 3 times week

Micros
Csm +B 15gms
Add in 500ml waterb 
5ml per 100l
3 times per week

Fe chealted
Add 15gms in 500ml water
5ml for 100 litres x 3 times a week


----------



## PhilipS

Maverick2015 said:


> I love dry dosing because I can just spoon them into the water. Even if the fish try to eat some it isn't an issue.


Hope you aren't opening the gel caps and swallowing the dry meds.

Bump:


nanomania said:


> Final formula, is this correct?


Micros x 3 times week

Macros x 3 times week

And on the 7th day, rest and do a water change.

You got the idea.

A group of aquarists got together to assemble a new Aquarium Calculator site. So simple to navigate and get results. http://www.aquariumcalculators.com It compliments what Wet started.


----------



## plantetra

wildstick said:


> does this numbers were each dose? or weekly?


Did you find an answer to this? Is it the total dose for a week or If i dose 3 times a week, I will get this PPM on the 6th day?


----------



## PhilipS

Looks like a weekly cumulative result.

Zorfox "Every solution or dry dose will provide the exact levels shown below"

Just remember to dose Macros 3 times a week and micros 3 times a week on opposite days.

Then 50% weekly water changes with RO or DI water.

Zorfox "Low light and no CO2 simply use 1/3 of the dosing listed with the same 50%weekly water change."

It may take 2 weeks to see the results of EI in your plants. Be patient.


----------



## plantetra

webskipper said:


> Looks like a weekly cumulative result.
> 
> Zorfox "Every solution or dry dose will provide the exact levels shown below"
> 
> Just remember to dose Macros 3 times a week and micros 3 times a week on opposite days.
> 
> Then 50% weekly water changes with RO or DI water.
> 
> Zorfox "Low light and no CO2 simply use 1/3 of the dosing listed with the same 50%weekly water change."
> 
> It may take 2 weeks to see the results of EI in your plants. Be patient.


Thank you

I am in the process of switching. I am in the calculation phase now. Next is purchase. I havent started dosing yet. SO I was trying to find out the quantity I have to buy and the mixture.

So if it is cumulative, I assume it is 6 times a week because the thread says add both micro and macro into one bottle isnt it?


----------



## PhilipS

Try the Fert Calculator at Yet Another Nutrient Calculator You'll need a jeweler scale to be able to weigh out milligrams (i.e. GemPro250 myweigh.com)

Keep micros in their own bottle.

Example:

Macros- Sun Tue Thurs

Micros- Mon Wed Fri

Saturday Water changes.

Use that water to feed the house plants, except the carnivorous ones.


----------



## plantetra

Same question again. The calculator mentioned above gives you the same value in mg whatever solution amount or dosing amount I enter. Which makes me think that the dosing amount is total amount for a week. eg. if I enter dosing as 6ml, then should I dose 3 x 6ml = 18ml a week or 3 x 2 =6ml a week?


----------



## PhilipS

Yes, dose the 6ml of that solution 3 times per week.

Since Tropical Fish Pond closed, where are you going for Aquascaping?


----------



## plantetra

webskipper said:


> Yes, dose the 6ml of that solution 3 times per week.
> 
> Since Tropical Fish Pond closed, where are you going for Aquascaping?


I had plants for a while but switching from seachem reactive dosing(dosing when I see some deficiency) to EI Dosing with DIY Solution

I bought my plants from all around here like Kees, Petco, Petsmart, Mobys and some online.


----------



## AboveBeyond

Zorfox said:


> _
> *10ml/46 Gallons*
> 
> Dry Dosing
> Optional: K2SO4 867.7 mg (approximately 1/8 teaspoons)
> KNO3 2.1 gm (approximately 1/2 teaspoons)
> KH2PO4 324.4 mg (approximately 1/16 teaspoons)
> Plantex CSM+B 1.3 gm (approximately 1/4 teaspoons)
> _


Anyone know why I'm getting a different amount for K2SO4 for 46 Gallons? http://www.zorfox.com/calculator/

Add 2,910.32 mg (approximately 1/2 teaspoon(s) ) of K2SO4
Add 2,129.41 mg (approximately 1/2 teaspoon(s) ) of KNO3
Add 324.36 mg (approximately 1/16 teaspoon(s) ) of KH2PO4
Add 1,333.3 mg (approximately 1/4 teaspoon(s) ) of Plantex CSM+B



Also, I was initially looking to do a solution for the macros but I keep getting a prompt that says it exceeded max. solubility. Am I entering the info incorrectly? *How do I get single solution for the macros* without having to fill a 2000ml bottle and dosing at 50ml? Thanks!

*50 gallons
Container Size: 500ml
Dose size: 5ml
Dose method: EI Low light/Weekly*

Solution:

Add 308,609.98 mg (approximately 59 1/4 teaspoons) of KNO3 to your 500 ml container. 
Each 5 ml dose will provide the following. *<--Exceeded maximum solubility? Need to set 10ml dose*

Add 27,120 mg (approximately 4 3/4 teaspoons) of KH2PO4 to your 500 ml container. 
Each 5 ml dose will provide the following.

Add 421,785.86 mg (approximately 66 teaspoons) of K2SO4 to your 500 ml container. 
Each 5 ml dose will provide the following. *<--Exceeded maximum solubility? Need to set to 2000ml and 50ml dose
*
Add 57,969.53 mg (approximately 13 1/2 teaspoons) of Plantex CSM+B to your 500 ml container. 
Each 5 ml dose will provide the following.


----------



## Zorfox

AboveBeyond said:


> Anyone know why I'm getting a different amount for K2SO4 for 46 Gallons? http://www.zorfox.com/calculator/


You are getting inaccurate responses from that calculator!

That calculator was actually a beta work in progress. I wrote it to evaluate a development environment. I didn't like the software so I won't be updating that calculator. I'm not surprised you are having problems with it. It was never actually intended to be public. I just removed it so there will be no confusion.

The accurate one I wrote is located here. I will be maintaining this one. If you need an online version I would recommend http://rotalabutterfly.com/ . However, this is also in a testing phase.

Sorry for the confusion


----------



## AboveBeyond

Zorfox said:


> You are getting inaccurate responses from that calculator!
> 
> That calculator was actually a beta work in progress. I wrote it to evaluate a development environment. I didn't like the software so I won't be updating that calculator. I'm not surprised you are having problems with it. It was never actually intended to be public. I just removed it so there will be no confusion.
> 
> The accurate one I wrote is located here. I will be maintaining this one. If you need an online version I would recommend http://rotalabutterfly.com/ . However, this is also in a testing phase.
> 
> Sorry for the confusion


No problem. Thanks for the clarification. I'll use the downloadable version. 

On the top of your head, is the website version giving me incorrect messages about the "maximum solubility" messages?


----------



## Zorfox

AboveBeyond said:


> On the top of your head, is the website version giving me incorrect messages about the "maximum solubility" messages?


Yup!


----------



## dru

Does everyone account for the K in KNO3 and KH2PO4 before calculating K2SO4?

I am seeing some deficiencies after shooting for basically ~2.25 PPM from K2SO4 after subtracting the K from the other two powders


----------



## AboveBeyond

Zorfox said:


> Yup!


I'm still getting the "maximum solubility" error from the downloaded program for K2SO4.

Also, for dry dosing, I'm still getting *Add 2,910.32 mg (approximately 1/2 teaspoon(s) of K2SO4* vs *K2SO4 867.7 mg (approximately 1/8 teaspoons)* from pg1. Rotalabutterfly.com also has 2.9gm so the value from pg1 must be off.


----------



## Zorfox

Hello AboveBeyond,

The calculations you are getting are correct. However, in most cases you don't need to dose the full EI dose of potassium using K2SO4. The reason the first page lists it as optional is that most of the potassium needed comes from KNO3, roughly 66%. The optional dose is the remainder of the standard EI amount, 7.5ppm using K2SO4.

Try this. 

Select solution, 500ml container and a 10ml dose. Calculate a dose of KNO3 for 46 gallons using EI. The result will show the amount of each element that KNO3 provides,



Code:


[B]Element		PPM[/B]
K		4.7291
N		1.6942
NO3		7.5

Notice that KNO3 provides 4.7291 ppm of potassium in this case.

Now click the button that say's start a running total. This will open another window that totals all of the elements for each fertilizer you calculate for. In that window click the add button when you want to add the results from the calculator. Try that using KNO3 and KH2PO4. Below is a snapshot of that window.

With the addition of KNO3 and KH2PO4 you will see that we already have 5.2643 ppm of potassium. The ideal target is 7.5ppm so,

7.5 - 5.2643 = 2.2357

That means if we want the full 7.5ppm of potassium we need to dose enough K2SO4 to raise K 2.2357 ppm. 

With the window still open enter 2.2357 in the concentration box of the calculator. Now calculate that dose. It should be 43.38 grams or 6 3/4 tsps.

Now click the add button in the total nutrients dosed window. Now the amount of potassium is exactly 7.5ppm, precisely what we wanted including the other nutrients.

Make sense?


----------



## AboveBeyond

Zorfox said:


> Hello AboveBeyond,
> 
> The calculations you are getting are correct. However, in most cases you don't need to dose the full EI dose of potassium using K2SO4. The reason the first page lists it as optional is that most of the potassium needed comes from KNO3, roughly 66%. The optional dose is the remainder of the standard EI amount, 7.5ppm using K2SO4.
> 
> Try this.
> 
> Select solution, 500ml container and a 10ml dose. Calculate a dose of KNO3 for 46 gallons using EI. The result will show the amount of each element that KNO3 provides,
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> [B]Element		PPM[/B]
> K		4.7291
> N		1.6942
> NO3		7.5
> 
> Notice that KNO3 provides 4.7291 ppm of potassium in this case.
> 
> Now click the button that say's start a running total. This will open another window that totals all of the elements for each fertilizer you calculate for. In that window click the add button when you want to add the results from the calculator. Try that using KNO3 and KH2PO4. Below is a snapshot of that window.
> 
> With the addition of KNO3 and KH2PO4 you will see that we already have 5.2643 ppm of potassium. The ideal target is 7.5ppm so,
> 
> 7.5 - 5.2643 = 2.2357
> 
> That means if we want the full 7.5ppm of potassium we need to dose enough K2SO4 to raise K 2.2357 ppm.
> 
> With the window still open enter 2.2357 in the concentration box of the calculator. Now calculate that dose. It should be 43.38 grams or 6 3/4 tsps.
> 
> Now click the add button in the total nutrients dosed window. Now the amount of potassium is exactly 7.5ppm, precisely what we wanted including the other nutrients.
> 
> Make sense?


That was extremely helpful! Thank you. :laugh2:

I just want to confirm that I *can *add the following into a single 500ml bottle and not worry about the "maximum solubility" message. 

(x1) KNO3 106.471320043 gm (approximately 20 1/2 teaspoons)
(x1) KH2PO4 16.217895354 gm (approximately 3 teaspoons)
(x1) K2SO4 43.377743292 gm (approximately 6 3/4 teaspoons)


----------



## Zorfox

AboveBeyond said:


> I just want to confirm that I *can *add the following into a single 500ml bottle and not worry about the "maximum solubility" message.


Yes, you should have no problem. 

A couple of things that can help however. You can use warm water and 2-3 teaspoons of plain ole' white vinegar first. The warm water increases solubility and the vinegar destroys any carbonates leading to other issues especially in the micro mix. The vinegar also reduces the likelihood of any fungal issues in the micro mix. I know it sounds too simple and cheap. But hey, it works! lol


----------



## plantetra

I added 10ml of Flourish excel to avoid algae. Will it help with fungal too?


----------



## Ewb46

For most of these compounds where would you suggest finding them besides online? Is this something Hydroponic shops would carry or other nursery/garden specialty stores.... I prefer to buy local if all possible.. but will buy online if it is the only option.


----------



## Zorfox

plantetra said:


> I added 10ml of Flourish excel to avoid algae. Will it help with fungal too?


If you mean adding it to you fertilizer solution yes. In your aquarium? Not so much.



Ewb46 said:


> For most of these compounds where would you suggest finding them besides online? Is this something Hydroponic shops would carry or other nursery/garden specialty stores.... I prefer to buy local if all possible.. but will buy online if it is the only option.


I've never had success finding small amounts locally. Hydroponic shops typically don't carry basic chemicals like this. Instead, they mix them and mark them up as fertilizer "XYZ".

The only place I have found it locally is with agricultural supply companies. However, a 50 pound bag would be entirely too much lol.

Nilocg, a forum member here sells them. If you're looking to help the small guy that's who I would go with. He has a web site, NilocG aquatics.


----------



## Audionut

If you can handle the excess amounts of nutrients (without kids getting to them or whatever), agricultural supply companies are usually best. Expect to get 10-20x the amount of chemical for the same price as a smaller quantity.

If you have friends, family, acquaintances who also purchase chemicals, it's a no brainer. Bulk buy and sell the excess.


----------



## THE V

I work for one of those agricultural supply companies (regional seed guy) and get my stuff at a lovely employee discount. I can warn you they won't carry everything. Some things like KNO3 due to the explosive danger are not carried unblended. Insurance companies tend to refuse coverage or highly increase the premiums if you do. Some places don't do retail either so call ahead and ask before you go.


----------



## burr740

Hey @Zorfox

There is a discrepancy in csmb amounts between your calculator (download version) and wet's old code here - Yet Another Nutrient Calculator

Calculating for 65 gallons, yours calls for 1.88 grams to reach .5 ppm Fe, Wet's old version calls for 1 gram.

Im wondering which is accurate?

Fwiw the new beta version shows the same value as yours, 1.88 grams.


----------



## Zorfox

burr740 said:


> Hey @Zorfox
> 
> There is a discrepancy in csmb amounts between your calculator (download version) and wet's old code here - Yet Another Nutrient Calculator
> 
> Calculating for 65 gallons, yours calls for 1.88 grams to reach .5 ppm Fe, Wet's old version calls for 1 gram.
> 
> Im wondering which is accurate?
> 
> Fwiw the new beta version shows the same value as yours, 1.88 grams.


Wet's old calculator was moved by someone. It's not actually the same. So in a nutshell that dose is incorrect.

I checked the numbers the old fashion way with pencil and paper. The dose my calculator as well as the new online beta version. They are both correct.

If you're interested, here's the math. Pretty simple stuff really.

The formula,

Desired Concentration (as ppm) / % of element in fertilizer = mg per liter

Plantex has 0.0653% of iron so...

0.5 (ppm) / 0.0653 (%) = 7.656967840735069 (mg/liter)

So we need 7.656967840735069 mg to raise one liter to 0.5ppm

Now convert 65 gallons to liter,

65 * 3.78541 = 246.05165 liters

246.05165 liters * 7.656967840735069 mg = 1,884.009571209801 mg

So rounding off to grams we need 1.88 grams in 65 gallons to raise iron to 0.5 ppm. 

Make sense?


----------



## burr740

Excellent. Thanks a lot


----------



## LLongjr

I just came across this and THANK YOU, I have some 2 liter pop bottles sitting around, roughly 2000ml, is there any reason not to make 2000ml of solution and does 20ml for my 80 gallon aquarium? would it go bad before I used it all up?


----------



## Zorfox

LLongjr said:


> I just came across this and THANK YOU, I have some 2 liter pop bottles sitting around, roughly 2000ml, is there any reason not to make 2000ml of solution and does 20ml for my 80 gallon aquarium? would it go bad before I used it all up?


No. It won't expire before you use it. I would however add about 10 teaspoons or so of white vinegar to the micro solution to prevent mold/fungus. Beyond that they will be fine.

A standard EI solution using 2,000 ml container and a 20 ml dose would be the following.



Code:


[B]Macro bottle[/B]
KNO3 370.3 gm (approximately 71 1/4 teaspoons)
KH2PO4 56.4 gm (approximately 10 1/16 teaspoons)
K2SO4 150.9 gm (approximately 23 1/2 teaspoons)

[B]Micro Bottle[/B]
Plantex CSM+B 231.9 gm (approximately 54 teaspoons)

You may want to use warm water when mixing. It speeds up the dissolution process.


----------



## LLongjr

I also purchased some GH booster, your suggestions on dosing with it? which bottle to mix it with?


----------



## Zorfox

LLongjr said:


> I also purchased some GH booster, your suggestions on dosing with it? which bottle to mix it with?


Add the GH booster dry after a water change. The dose is different depending on the manufacturer. Add enough to raise GH 1-2 degrees.

To better understand why we dose what we dose give this post a read, 
The EI Concept explained. It may make things a little more clear.


----------



## nanomania

Hey guys, finally this is my diy supplement and dosing schedule as per PPS-PRO method, 
http://www.aquariumcalculators.com/aquarium-plant-food/pps-pro/

K2so4 29gms
Kn03 33gms
Mgso4 20gms
In total volume 500ml water
I dint add kh2po4 coz im plannin to keep bioload high for po4.
Dosing is 10ml for 400liter total volume of water on monday wed and friday.

40gms of csmb in total 500ml volume 
Dosing 10ml for 400liter total volume of water on tue thursday saturday

10gms of chelated Fe 10% in total 500ml water dosing 20ml for 400liters every sunday.

Am i correct or i need to increase, as the calculator states to add npk and csmb everyday, but some suggest to add every alternate day each. Im adding extra iron as i have mostly red plants. 

Here is my tank photo:


----------



## burr740

Nice looking tank. Expect you'll be severely low on P eventually. Omitting a main macro nutrient isnt a good idea, imo.


----------



## Zorfox

nanomania said:


> Am i correct or i need to increase, as the calculator states to add npk and csmb everyday, but some suggest to add every alternate day each. Im adding extra iron as i have mostly red plants.


I think you're confusing two different fertilizing methods. PPS-pro is dosed everyday. EI is dosed every other day.

I agree with burr that you shouldn't ignore PO4. I would start with the recommended amounts and adjust as needed.

If you will have such a high bio-load, it would be a wise choice to do frequent water changes. If you do this then EI would be a better dosing method in my opinion.


----------



## nanomania

burr740 said:


> Nice looking tank. Expect you'll be severely low on P eventually. Omitting a main macro nutrient isnt a good idea, imo.


Oh.. ok, will add then


----------



## nanomania

Zorfox said:


> I think you're confusing two different fertilizing methods. PPS-pro is dosed everyday. EI is dosed every other day.
> 
> I agree with burr that you shouldn't ignore PO4. I would start with the recommended amounts and adjust as needed.
> 
> If you will have such a high bio-load, it would be a wise choice to do frequent water changes. If you do this then EI would be a better dosing method in my opinion.


Well then is it ok to add both at the same time?


----------



## Zorfox

nanomania said:


> Well then is it ok to add both at the same time?


Not at all. The choice should be based on water change frequencies and/or the amount of plant growth you expect. PPS requires less maintenance but less growth. EI requires water changes and typically more trimming due to more growth.

The doses listed in this thread are for EI. If you want to understand more about this method read this, http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/11-fertilizers-water-parameters/517945-ei-concept-explained.html


----------



## nanomania

Zorfox said:


> Not at all. The choice should be based on water change frequencies and/or the amount of plant growth you expect. PPS requires less maintenance but less growth. EI requires water changes and typically more trimming due to more growth.
> 
> The doses listed in this thread are for EI. If you want to understand more about this method read this, http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/11-fertilizers-water-parameters/517945-ei-concept-explained.html


Kool thread, and great info. Well i selected this method coz i can only do wc once in a month or max once in 3 weeks. also since i have water issue, i can only do 50% wc, everytime i do more than that, fishes die. I dont have a space to keep 80g of water and let it stay for 24hrs thwn add to tanks. I do direct tap water into the tank and use seachem safe, since then iv never had any fish loss. So please tell me when n howmuch to dose. Since for this method they say ro dose both every day, can i add npk before lights on and trace after lights are off for 6days a week and 1once a week add iron coz of somany red plants. Please suggest, im confused. We dont get many testkits here and most of them are old and expiered. Alao how to know what plant has what deficiency so i can add it extra. Thanks


----------



## Zorfox

This is typical PPS-Pro

Add the amounts listed in 500ml and dose 10ml once a day.

*Macro Bottle*
KNO3 32.61 gm (approximately 6 1/4 teaspoons)
KH2PO4 2.87 gm (approximately 1/2 teaspoons)
K2SO4 14.63 gm (approximately 2 1/4 teaspoons)

*Micro Bottle*
Plantex CSM+B 30.63 gm (approximately 7 1/8 teaspoons)
DTPA Fe (10%) 6 gm (approximately 1 1/2 teaspoons)


----------



## nanomania

Zorfox said:


> This is typical PPS-Pro
> 
> Add the amounts listed in 500ml and dose 10ml once a day.
> 
> *Macro Bottle*
> KNO3 32.61 gm (approximately 6 1/4 teaspoons)
> KH2PO4 2.87 gm (approximately 1/2 teaspoons)
> K2SO4 14.63 gm (approximately 2 1/4 teaspoons)
> 
> *Micro Bottle*
> Plantex CSM+B 30.63 gm (approximately 7 1/8 teaspoons)
> DTPA Fe (10%) 6 gm (approximately 1 1/2 teaspoons)


Yup, iv made same but also added mag sulfate, as per the calculator, csmb iv made using 40gms in 500ml rest is same. Also is it ok to add macro micro one after another at night? Or shud i add macro before lights and micro after lights? Ill also add iron extra every sunday 20ml (10g in 500ml).. so thts fine??


----------



## Raymond S.

Micro and Macro are supposed to be dose on separate days.
Mon./Wed./Fri. Macro then Tue./Thur./Sat. for Micros as an example.


----------



## nanomania

Raymond S. said:


> Micro and Macro are supposed to be dose on separate days.
> Mon./Wed./Fri. Macro then Tue./Thur./Sat. for Micros as an example.


Pps pro method suggests to add everyday... im confused.


----------



## Zorfox

Sorry, I forgot the Magnesium. Just add it to the macro bottle.

You're better off adding your iron to the micro bottle. Iron supplements do not remain available for the entire week. Better to add this on a regular basis.

You can dose macro and micro on the same day. You just have to let one mix well before adding the next.


----------



## nanomania

Zorfox said:


> Sorry, I forgot the Magnesium. Just add it to the macro bottle.
> 
> You're better off adding your iron to the micro bottle. Iron supplements do not remain available for the entire week. Better to add this on a regular basis.
> 
> You can dose macro and micro on the same day. You just have to let one mix well before adding the next.


Ok, so since iv already made csmb, and iron seperately, so if im dosing 20ml iron on weekend, ill dose 3ml everyday. Also csmb has some iron already. And instead of adding micro and macro together, ill add either 1 before lights and other after lights or incase i forget, ill add both after lights with 5mints interval... so finally am i correct??


----------



## Raymond S.

nanomania said:


> Pps pro method suggests to add everyday... im confused.


My statement was a reference to the usually preset instructions given/w EI.
Given the Zorfox's credibility in such matters I'd not hesitate to follow
his "suggestion" before any from another source.


----------



## Immortal1

Been meaning to ask this question for awhile and since getting some nice new plants from burr740 I figured it is about time.
On my 75 gallon tank I have been using the PPS-Pro method. Originally I was dosing exactly as listed on the bottles as received from GLA. After battling with GSA for awhile I was told that keeping the phosphate level around 5ppm would help. Well, I was at 1.5 to 2. I have since modified the PPS-Pro as listed below and my GSA has reduced significantly and the API phosphate test is running around 5ppm now.

Now for the big question (sorry, I can tend to ramble). 
*Should I increase my K2SO4 mix from 29 grams / 500ml to 52 grams?*
I ask this because I have been playing around with Zorfox's Windows based calculator and it seems he knows his $#!^ so to speak and I don't. 
The spreadsheet below is a summary of what I know on the macro side
The pic is, well, what it is


----------



## Audionut

If you are dosing KNO3, then no.

The PPS-pro dose of KNO3 adds 0.6ppm of K. PPS-pro calls for 1.33ppm of K. 

You're 29grams K2SO4 in solution is adding 0.75ppm K. So combined you reach your target of 1.33ppm K.

However, KH2PO4 also adds K. With standard PPS-pro dosing of KH2PO4 you can neglect it's contribution to K since it's minimal. But since your boosting phosphate to reach 5ppm, this will be adding significant amounts of K. A 2ppm dose of KH2PO4 adds 0.8ppm K.

TLDR: No, stick to your current solution of K, [STRIKE]and don't add any K when adding lots of P.[/STRIKE]

edit: Just noticed your current KH2PO4 dosing. Just stick to your current solution of K2SO4 and dose as per recommendation.


----------



## nanomania

Guys iv not added kh2po4 to the pps pro method, i thought as i like keeping bioload high i dont need extra po4 in my tank, i know every1 suggested to add later on, well what shud i do now to add seperately? I have made 500ml which will last for 50 days for my 400liter (net water volume)


----------



## burr740

nanomania said:


> Guys iv not added kh2po4 to the pps pro method, i thought as i like keeping bioload high i dont need extra po4 in my tank, i know every1 suggested to add later on, well what shud i do now to add seperately? I have made 500ml which will last for 50 days for my 400liter (net water volume)


Well you can always try it and see how it goes, nothing wrong with that. But it sounds to me like you've been reading some out-dated pps information from back when phosphates were still considered the big bad guy as far as algae. 

That has been dis-proven time and time again. Look no further than the 100s or 1000s of people on here's high tech tanks running EI levels or greater. Personally I keep mine in the 5 ppm range in order to stave off gsa.

But the point is, if you dont think the fish load will provide enough N, what makes you think it will provide enough P? Those are the two main nutrients fish poop provides, in addition to some traces. It will provide virtually zero K, because there's none to speak of in fish food.

@Immortal1

If you are shooting for exact ppsp levels, then it sounds like you have enough, as @Audionut pointed out.

K is one nutrient that is virtually impossible to overdose on. To me, a better question would be why not add more? Esp if your hygro or anything else is still showing pinholes.


----------



## Immortal1

burr740 said:


> Well you can always try it and see how it goes, nothing wrong with that. But it sounds to me like you've been reading some out-dated pps information from back when phosphates were still considered the big bad guy as far as algae.
> 
> That has been dis-proven time and time again. Look no further than the 100s or 1000s of people on here's high tech tanks running EI levels or greater. Personally I keep mine in the 5 ppm range in order to stave off gsa.
> 
> But the point is, if you dont think the fish load will provide enough N, what makes you think it will provide enough P? Those are the two main nutrients fish poop provides, in addition to some traces. It will provide virtually zero K, because there's none to speak of in fish food.
> 
> @*Immortal1*
> 
> If you are shooting for exact ppsp levels, then it sounds like you have enough, as @*Audionut* pointed out.
> 
> K is one nutrient that is virtually impossible to overdose on. *To me, a better question would be why not add more? Esp if your hygro or anything else is still showing pinholes*.


Exactly what I was thinking. Just did not want to open another can of worms so to speak. I guess what I am doing, in a way, is tailoring my available ferts to my current tank conditions. Will begin looking at the micro's in the same way soon (comparing different methods)


----------



## nanomania

burr740 said:


> Well you can always try it and see how it goes, nothing wrong with that. But it sounds to me like you've been reading some out-dated pps information from back when phosphates were still considered the big bad guy as far as algae.
> 
> That has been dis-proven time and time again. Look no further than the 100s or 1000s of people on here's high tech tanks running EI levels or greater. Personally I keep mine in the 5 ppm range in order to stave off gsa.
> 
> But the point is, if you dont think the fish load will provide enough N, what makes you think it will provide enough P? Those are the two main nutrients fish poop provides, in addition to some traces. It will provide virtually zero K, because there's none to speak of in fish food.
> 
> @Immortal1
> 
> If you are shooting for exact ppsp levels, then it sounds like you have enough, as @Audionut pointed out.
> 
> K is one nutrient that is virtually impossible to overdose on. To me, a better question would be why not add more? Esp if your hygro or anything else is still showing pinholes.


Yup, i agree. But how should i add po4 now? Or is it ok for smtime? Atleast for 50days, then will make proper pps pro.


----------



## burr740

Immortal1 said:


> Exactly what I was thinking. Just did not want to open another can of worms so to speak. I guess what I am doing, in a way, is tailoring my available ferts to my current tank conditions. Will begin looking at the micro's in the same way soon (comparing different methods)


Over the last six months or so, Ive been working to tailor EI to meet my own specific needs also.

Currently dosing 1/2 N, 2x P, and 7.5 ppm K 3x week



nanomania said:


> Yup, i agree. But how should i add po4 now? Or is it ok for smtime? Atleast for 50days, then will make proper pps pro.


I dont see why you couldnt add the P to what you have mixed up now. Shake well and it should be good to go. Or just try it without for 6 weeks and see what happens. It may be fine. Worst case is plants stunt and you'll be overrun with algae.


----------



## Zorfox

Good advise burr! 

I won't repeat what burr said. However, I do agree that you need to dose the full compliment of nutrients. If your plants don't need the extra there's no harm done. If, however, they do need that extra PO4 then growth and or health will be impacted. I would add the PO4 to what you have. Personally, I would simply remix a new batch since dry fertilizers are so cheap. No real need to try and save $0.25 worth of fertilizers.


----------



## nanomania

Whats causing this? My tank is a week old and im dosing pps pro as u guys know, 10ml npk and 10ml csmb and 3ml iron everyday 400liter total water volume

PICS:


----------



## nanomania

burr740 said:


> Over the last six months or so, Ive been working to tailor EI to meet my own specific needs also.
> 
> Currently dosing 1/2 N, 2x P, and 7.5 ppm K 3x week
> 
> 
> I dont see why you couldnt add the P to what you have mixed up now. Shake well and it should be good to go. Or just try it without for 6 weeks and see what happens. It may be fine. Worst case is plants stunt and you'll be overrun with algae.


Kool, will do that..


----------



## nanomania

Zorfox said:


> Good advise burr!
> 
> I won't repeat what burr said. However, I do agree that you need to dose the full compliment of nutrients. If your plants don't need the extra there's no harm done. If, however, they do need that extra PO4 then growth and or health will be impacted. I would add the PO4 to what you have. Personally, I would simply remix a new batch since dry fertilizers are so cheap. No real need to try and save $0.25 worth of fertilizers.


True...


----------



## JasterMake

I think there is a discrepancy between the csm+b values. Using the rotalabutterfly calculator I get different values for creating the solutions. 

In the 1ml/gal solution you recommend 3 1/4 tsp while the calculator lists <3tsp. It's not much but I'm trying to figure out why there is a difference. The difference between calculations carries out for other solutions as well. However both you and the butterfly calculator give the same dry weight so I think the error is in converting between grams and tsp.


----------



## Zorfox

JasterMake said:


> I think there is a discrepancy between the csm+b values. Using the rotalabutterfly calculator I get different values for creating the solutions.
> 
> In the 1ml/gal solution you recommend 3 1/4 tsp while the calculator lists <3tsp. It's not much but I'm trying to figure out why there is a difference. The difference between calculations carries out for other solutions as well. However both you and the butterfly calculator give the same dry weight so I think the error is in converting between grams and tsp.


I calculate my teaspoon measures differently. I would rather not list four or five measures i.e. equivalent to 2 tsp + 1/2 tsp + 1/4 tsp + 1/8 tsp + 1/64 tsp. Instead, I round the measure to 1/32 and call it done. Besides using teaspoons to measure is not perfectly accurate to begin with hence the word approximately in from of them all. 

A teaspoon of Plantex weighs approx. 4,300 mg. The mg dose is 14,492.50074 mg so...

14,492.50074 / 4,300 = 3.37 teaspoons

In my code I convert decimal portions to teaspoon measures using these amounts,

1/32 = 0.015625 - 0.046874
1/16 = 0.046875 - 0.09375
1/8 = 0.09376 - 0.1875
1/4 = 0.1876 - 0.375
1/2 =	0.376 - 0.625
3/4 =	0.626 - 0.875

Since 0.37 falls within the 1/4 range it reports 1/4 teaspoon.

This is as close as your really going to come using teaspoons. Sure I could reduce the measures and make them even smaller. The fact is that 1/32 increments is more than small enough since volumetric measures are not terribly accurate in the first place.


----------



## JasterMake

Thanks for the reply. That's the info I was looking for.


----------



## vijay_06

15ml/75 Gallons

KNO3 115.7 gm (approximately 22 1/4 teaspoons)
Plantex CSM+B 72.5 gm (approximately 16 3/4 teaspoons)
KH2PO4 17.6 gm (approximately 3 1/8 teaspoons)
Optional: K2SO4 47 gm (approximately 7 1/4 teaspoons)

Are the above numbers applicable for a 75 gallons tank or 75 gallons of water? I just setup my new tank. Based on the substrate depth and other hardscape, I would estimate my tank to hold 62-65 gallons of water. Pressurized CO2 and high lights are being run. Substrate is inert sand.

Would it make sense for me add 12-13 ml of the fertilizer liquid instead of 15 ml considering my tank's water volume?

On a side note, I am planning to add Plantex and DTPA Iron (11%) in very small quantities compared to above numbers - More like what Burr has been doing in his 120 since my parameters seem close to his. My water is pretty soft (KH - 2, GH - 4) and I have been reading a lot about trace toxicity with softer water.


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## burr740

vijay_06 said:


> 15ml/75 Gallons
> 
> KNO3 115.7 gm (approximately 22 1/4 teaspoons)
> Plantex CSM+B 72.5 gm (approximately 16 3/4 teaspoons)
> KH2PO4 17.6 gm (approximately 3 1/8 teaspoons)
> Optional: K2SO4 47 gm (approximately 7 1/4 teaspoons)
> 
> Are the above numbers applicable for a 75 gallons tank or 75 gallons of water? I just setup my new tank. Based on the substrate depth and other hardscape, I would estimate my tank to hold 62-65 gallons of water. Pressurized CO2 and high lights are being run. Substrate is inert sand.
> 
> Would it make sense for me add 12-13 ml of the fertilizer liquid instead of 15 ml considering my tank's water volume?
> 
> On a side note, I am planning to add Plantex and DTPA Iron (11%) in very small quantities compared to above numbers - More like what Burr has been doing in his 120 since my parameters seem close to his. My water is pretty soft (KH - 2, GH - 4) and I have been reading a lot about trace toxicity with softer water.


I generally try to calculate for actual water volume instead of tank size. My previous 75 held 62 gallons, canister held 2-3, so I dosed for 65. Its not all that critical though

If you want to get a little more precise with the micros I'd suggest using a calculator instead of these tsp recipes

Zorfox has a downloadable version that's really good - http://www.zorfox.com/plantedtank/

Here's a good online calculator - https://rotalabutterfly.com/nutrient-calculator.php

If you need help using either one, just ask


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## vijay_06

burr740 said:


> I generally try to calculate for actual water volume instead of tank size. My previous 75 held 62 gallons, canister held 2-3, so I dosed for 65. Its not all that critical though
> 
> If you want to get a little more precise with the micros I'd suggest using a calculator instead of these tsp recipes
> 
> Zorfox has a downloadable version that's really good - Zorfox's Planted Tank Calculator
> 
> Here's a good online calculator - https://rotalabutterfly.com/nutrient-calculator.php
> 
> If you need help using either one, just ask


Thank you! I am using APC's Fertilator and determine CSM+B needs based on FE ppm.


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## Gersh

Any tips for a low tech medium light 55 gallon? I use KNO3, KH2PO4 and Flourish (for micros).


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