# 10 gal on no budget (Algae Free!!!! 4/29/09)



## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Cant wait to see it planted 
Maybe some vals or rotundifolia would work for the background


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## frogmanjared (Feb 21, 2008)

Because the wife hurried me through the store... I bought the powerhead with more power, but it doesn't have a flow control valve and now I'm screwed! I need some plants that will stay stiff enough but maybe bend a little with the current to place in the front left corner area. I've tried aiming the output in every direction, except for straight across (I'll try it tomorrow, too frustrated today!). I've even stuffed the prefilter full of more sponge, and put pantyhose around the outer sponge and still too much flow? Anyone have any ideas on how to reduce the flow on this sucker?

Here's a pic from today... after my fumbling around with the filter. There's some Java fern and moss(collected from a pond this summer) on the wood, and a tiny piece of suesswassertang to the left.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

The flow will slow down in time. The hose will clog somewhat.


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## frogmanjared (Feb 21, 2008)

I got the flow reduced A LOT! It's still strong, but with plants it should be perfect. In thinking of what plants to get, would Cryptocoryne spiralis and Downoi work in this tank? I might get R. rotundifolia for the back left, the spiralis would be just left of the filter and trail on the surface, and the downoi would be mid/foreground somewhere. Any suggestions/comments are welcome!


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

How did you wind up reducing the flow? I think downoi needs at least a little more light to work, plus mine love root tabs  Crypts should work fine


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## frogmanjared (Feb 21, 2008)

I bunched up some filter floss and shoved it in the top of the slotted tube that goes into the sponge... it seemed to have worked well!

Really, downoi won't do well in 1.5 wpg? I love the way it looks.


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## frozenbarb (Dec 16, 2006)

Downoi would not work in a low light.

But you can try Crypts and Java ferns and Dwarf Saggs and moss. Java fern looks really nice in a dark tank.

I think shrimps would look cool in this tank.


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## frogmanjared (Feb 21, 2008)

Well, that sucks... forget about the downoi :icon_cry: Maybe I'll just have a carpet of suesswassertang eventually. What species of dwarf sag stays the shortest in low light (I've heard many contradictory things)?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Go for E. tenellus 'narrow' or 'micro,' or Marselia minuta

This was my 10gal with E. tenellus 'narrow':


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## PROLINKer (Sep 30, 2008)

That's a nice start, Anubias in driftwoods will be ok with your current.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Crypts should grow well, I have crypts in all of my tanks, 2 of which are less than 1wpg, 2 of them are regular aquarium gravel substrate and they grow faster than some of my stems, ok, maybe that's a slight exaggeration, but only a slight one. Spiralis grows quite well for me in my .75wpg 20g tall tank with aquarium gravel substrate. Any of the carpetting plants Lauralee suggested should do well too. And they should all hold up to the current. Good luck, I can't wait to see it planted!


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## frogmanjared (Feb 21, 2008)

So... I woke up today, and boom! Baceterial bloom. This sucks, I've never had one this cloudy, I rinsed the substrate really well, must be too many nutrients from too few plants and squeezing dirty filter media in there for a few days. Should I just ride it out, wait till I get new plants (E. tennulus, C. retrospiralis prob next week)? Would opening the air valve on the filter work? I thought I remember reading somewhere that high oxygen levels will kill off most of the bacteria, if so, how long could I do this without harming the plants? 

Thanks for all your help


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## eyebeatbadgers (Aug 6, 2007)

High O2 levels won't kill plants. Low Co2 won't help, but you can add Excel in the time being, or just leave the bacterial bloom be.

Bacterial bloom is a normal thing, but I'd get more fast growing plants in there whenever possible. You don't want the bacterial bloom to turn into a green water outbreak.

Also, as you add plant mass in the tank, you will need to increase the flow of the filter. It's probably best you started off with one that was a little overkill.


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## frogmanjared (Feb 21, 2008)

eyebeatbadgers said:


> Also, as you add plant mass in the tank, you will need to increase the flow of the filter. It's probably best you started off with one that was a little overkill.


Thanks for the response. I added a bit of pennywort floating to help suck out nutrients. I'll probably have to increase the flow a tiny bit as more plants get in, but we'll see.

* "a little overkill" is quite the understatement LOL! I had trouble putting one tiny piece of suesswassertang into the substrate, it kept getting swept away.


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## frogmanjared (Feb 21, 2008)

Got another question. How would I go about connecting a co2 bottle to the aeration valve? Should I keep it open all the way, just a little bit? I'm not sure exactly how the air gets in there, so I don't want to do it wrong and hear a BANG, big mess to follow.


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## eyebeatbadgers (Aug 6, 2007)

Are you talking about a gang valve? What I would do in your situation is hook up the Co2 tube to the inlet of the filter. That way the bubbles would get chopped up by the impeller and spread around the tank. Then, do a separate line for however you're introducing air into the tank, unless I missed something.


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## frogmanjared (Feb 21, 2008)

Here's a pic of the filter... http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752379 (put mouse over bottom image to see it.

The tube going off to the right attached to the outlet/spray thing, that's where the air comes in. It's got an adjustable knob and the capability of attaching a tube instead of just air. Has anyone used this sort of thing? When I open the valve, the bubbles are pretty small anyways, so I would prefer to do it this way, with less clutter in the tank and making less noise.

The aeration made the bacteria bloom go down! Hopefully tomorrow it will be clear again.


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## frogmanjared (Feb 21, 2008)

I got my CO2 hooked up a few minutes ago... to test the valve thingy and make sure it doesn't create too much suction and take yeast water into the tank, and to make sure I don't have it closed and have the bottle explode:eek5:.

The tubing is connected to this "aeration valve" and that black tube enters the out-stream of the filter.


















Now all I have to do is wait for the bubbles and finely tune the valve. The plants should be coming later this week. E. tennulus and C. retrospiralis.

I'm planning on growing the plants for a month or two... and go overboard with the CO2 to get maximum growth, since I'm starting with a few plants, when they've multiplied a bit, I'll start adding shrimp. (I added a test shrimp, but he got caught in the area where the filter attaches to the sponge and died :icon_cry:... so I put pantyhose over that area... hopefully its shrimp safe now... but I'm still hesitant to put another in, probably wait until plants come)


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## frogmanjared (Feb 21, 2008)

This is an absolute horrible picture (I don't know why its purplish and dark maybe because its kinda pink outside and a storm is coming)... but it gives you an idea of what the tank looks like.


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## midnightk (Sep 24, 2008)

hmmmm have that powerhead. but i dont think itll work really great that way might have off gasing from that turn valve where u control air intake for bubbles. is it not too strong?

run the co2 line to where the coarse filter is. ever thought about a cannister fillter for a main or even a hob ?  i like the feel though keep it up!


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## frogmanjared (Feb 21, 2008)

As the title says, I'm on a budget.. so no new equipment. I managed to slow the flow a little, still strong, but once the micro sword spreads, the shrimp will have nice places to hide from it. There is no lead at the valve, it can't go through it on the other side, tested it to make sure! I put the most pale male RCS in there... he seems to enjoy the flow, he's playing in the tall crypts!


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## frogmanjared (Feb 21, 2008)

I managed to get a decent pic of the tank today. Sorry for the glare, couldn't get the room dark enough. Now comes the long wait for the plants to fill in. I have to attach another java fern plantlet to the "peak" on the stick, as the last one came loose. Any scaping ideas or other suggestions?


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## confuted (Jan 31, 2007)

Maybe a much bigger piece of wood?


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## luckydud13 (Jun 21, 2008)

^^^agree


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## frogmanjared (Feb 21, 2008)

Oh, I've been looking, but the only good pieces that I've found so far have been pine!


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## frogmanjared (Feb 21, 2008)

I put in another small piece of driftwood, and added 2 of my very red RCS along with the reddest male... here are the before and after pics.

















Now I just have to wait and let it all grow in, one of the E tenellus has sent out 4 runners, and I might have to trim the subwassertang from my 5 gal in a few weeks, I'll have to find a large flat rock for the front right corner of the tank.


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## zzyzx85 (Feb 13, 2008)

nice progress. what kind of light are you using?


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## frogmanjared (Feb 21, 2008)

Thanks, I'm using a 15w T8 light strip, w/8,000k colormax bulb.


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## I Ate A Cake (Nov 4, 2008)

What plants do you have in there? 

It looks nice.


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## frogmanjared (Feb 21, 2008)

I Ate A Cake said:


> What plants do you have in there?
> 
> It looks nice.


On the wood is a moss (not sure what type, native to WI) and Java fern. E. tenellus and Süßwassertang in the foreground, and C. retrospiralis.

I might be getting some corkscrew val from my bother in law sometime in the near future, thinking of putting it in-between the Crypts, and to fill in the empty spot between them and the wood.

I just got a great shot of the 2 female RCS, they finally came out of hiding!:icon_smil


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## frogmanjared (Feb 21, 2008)

I've been battling what I think is staghorn and bba for a few weeks... I need help! This isn't the best pic because the leaves are next to the filter outlet, but you can tell the staghorn in white. It seems to only be affecting the older leaves of the crypt and a few dying E. tenellus leaves. I have 5 RCS in the tank, so I don't want to do anything that might harm them. Any ideas on how to slow the growth of these algae down? (I'll get a FTS tonight to show the progress of the tank as the room is too bright to get a quality pic during daylight in that room).









I had my best female berry on Sunday, but she got her eggs caught on some moss while she was laying, so she only has 1 or 2 eggs in her swimmerets


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## frogmanjared (Feb 21, 2008)

Here's a FTS... I trimmed a bunch of Subwassertang, and planted a bunch in the front right. I might be bringing home some spiral val for behind the driftwood this weekend.








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## frogmanjared (Feb 21, 2008)

*sick of it all!*

Well, I was so pleased with how my other 10 gal turned out after a major cleaning and bleach dipped plants, that I decided to do my other one today! Here are some before and after pics.
Before:








Another before:









The thread/hair algae turned red... I hope it's enough to kill it! If not it'd better stay red, it looks really cool.

















When I get a couple new compacts tomorrow, I'm going to the if petdumb has any plants to help suck out the nutrients in both my problem tanks...:icon_roll


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

I have to agree, the red does look kind of cool! But of course, I do hope it goes away! 

If you need some nutrient suckers, I'd be happy to send you some guppy grass if you just cover the shipping ($5) I have lots of it growing in my fry grow-out tank, if it could be of some use to you, I'd be happy to send it. I also have some foxtail growing in there I could send too (another good nutrient hog). I'm going to need to thin it out soon, even if you won't keep it in there permanently, i'd rather see it go to some use before it gets thrown out!


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## frogmanjared (Feb 21, 2008)

*Unexplained deaths*

Ok, so I've been having some baby mollies die for some time... just thought that they had bad genes, but now I found a dead RCS this morning. The mollies are dying like they're losing motor skills, swimming in circles and what not. The temp shows at 76, but it felt a lot warmer than that, I've got the front flap on the cover open to help with that, but I think the filter might be the cause of that, It just doesn't have as much kick to it even when I clean it.

The other issue could be the rocks. I got those cheap black ones and the color seems to be wearing off. Could the residue from the paint be killing of the tanks inhabitants??? 

I do everything the same with all my tanks, and all the babies have THRIVED in the others so it's something with this one tank, I don't want to tear it down and call it quits (have no money for new gravel @ the moment) Please help me before the remaining babies and RCS die!


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## wendyjo (Feb 20, 2009)

Have you checked your water parems? I'd test my water before doing anything else.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Sorry to hear about the die-off, I don't think it's the rocks, I have the same ones in most of my tanks with the color wearing off slightly and it doesn't seem to cause any problems. I agree with wendyjp that you should check your parameters. 

My other immediate thought is residue from the bleach dip to get rid of your algae (unless it started before you bleached dipped the algae). 

That's all i got at the moment. Good luck!


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## ddtran46 (Jul 8, 2008)

I cant see any pictures(if any).


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## frogmanjared (Feb 21, 2008)

Karackle said:


> Sorry to hear about the die-off, I don't think it's the rocks, I have the same ones in most of my tanks with the color wearing off slightly and it doesn't seem to cause any problems. I agree with wendyjp that you should check your parameters.
> 
> My other immediate thought is residue from the bleach dip to get rid of your algae (unless it started before you bleached dipped the algae).


It did start a couple days before the dip, so count that out. I put some water lettuce in there to soak up anything toxic (they're great for taking up hard metals also) THis would be the one case where I'd actually buy a test kit, but I have no money so thats out of the question. I had a pair of cherry barbs in there and they bred, so they found the water fine... maybe the baby mollies have bad genes and some shrimp are just randomly dying...


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## frogmanjared (Feb 21, 2008)

*Recovery*

Two of the babies have survived their trauma... after I put the water lettuce in the tank they have been getting better and are eating today!


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

I like the sponge. Where did you get it? I am using a similar set up. 

Does it have a flange above the output that you can point upwards. Try stuffing the inside of the sponge with floss.

Are any gasping at the top? That is a sign of nitrites. How about adding some anarchin? Just do a lot of partial water changes until you see the fish aren't stressed.


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## frogmanjared (Feb 21, 2008)

Hilde said:


> I like the sponge. Where did you get it? I am using a similar set up.
> 
> Does it have a flange above the output that you can point upwards. Try stuffing the inside of the sponge with floss.
> 
> Are any gasping at the top? That is a sign of nitrites. How about adding some anarchin? Just do a lot of partial water changes until you see the fish aren't stressed.


I got the sponge filter at Petco, and you can change the direction of the outflow.

The remaining babies have miraculously turned around and are eating well. The shrimp have not seen any deaths either.


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## frogmanjared (Feb 21, 2008)

*finally, it's all gone!*

After months of battling BGA and staghorn, I just let the tank go, water changes once a month. I killed all the staghorn with a bleach dip, which killed ~60% of the plants. Then a friend gave me a piece of hornwort which has killed off all the BGA!!! Oh yea, there's also a ton of small ramshorn snails, they won't get any bigger than 1/4 inch (they love to chomp down on the BGA, which is strange. There's new growth on the E. tenellus so it might start filling in soon.









My brother also gave me a plant, which is in the middle of this pic...he doesn't remember what it was though, any one know?


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## frogmanjared (Feb 21, 2008)

After months of disappointment... I found a tiny leak in the corner of the tank! It wasn't enough to make the dresser top wet, but enough to make water stains on the glass and to make me worried it would erupt any day. (I probably shouldn't be so excited, but I'm glad I don't have to get angry trying to figure out what's wrong with the thing). I tore it down and spread the salvageable plants into other tanks. This is the end of a terrifying roller coaster and I'm glad it's over!


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