# Substrate Holy Grail?!?!



## The Trigger

Wait why have I never heard of this? Who makes this and where did you get it?


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## shift

It looks like active flora is physically smaller which will be easier for carpeting plants to spread though.. eco complete works well (except carpets take alot longer.. in my experience)


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## Diana

I would like to make the point that the elements that are in the actual material itself, that *are* the sand/gravel bits are not nutrients for the plants. 
The sand/gravel does not break down fast enough to become fertilizer. 
Any claims that these elements are a benefit to the plant are exageration at best, and downright lying at worst. It is like saying the china you eat off of adds vitamins to the food you eat. 

Minerals that are added as fertilizer are the things that are available to the plants. They are not actually the elements that make up the sand/gravel particles. 

If you start with a product that has no fertilizer and add fertilizer, then it will grow plants better than that product right out of the bag. If a product has fertilizers incorporated into it, (you buy it that way), then the plants will do better than a product that has no fertilizers when you compare 'using it right out of the bag'. When you add ferts to the product that has none, the plants might grow just as well as the in the product that came with fertilizers.


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## NanoDave

The Trigger:
I actually first found this at a Petco in NJ that had been converted from a big LFS and was selling off all remaining products. Bought one 16lb bag for $7 on clearance! Needless to say went back and bought their last 6 bags the next day after I fell in love with it! I've used all 6 bags and now have 50lbs of eco sitting in a bucket in the basement . Had my LFS order some more for me and my friends. Selling at $25 a bag where Eco-Complete is $33 0.0....YATZEE! 

Diana:
I completely understand you are literally purchasing "water" in a bag with substrate. I guess I should have stated that in my first post but in any event both are "water" in a bag with substrate so still even comparison. I personally find ActivFlora's "water" to be far superior and last longer before root tabs or excessive dosing is needed. Thats makes me wonder why more people don't talk about this stuff. Hence holy grail.


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## James M

"Holy Grail" = dirt


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## NanoDave

James M:
"Holy Grail" might very well may be dirt but you still need to cap it and deal with nasty air pockets :-/. Not to mention it can be a mess/nightmare if it gets to the surface. 

Maybe I'll try dirt w/ ActivFlora cap someday 0.0! I don't think I would have that much time _everyday_ to trim though


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## NanoDave

Just had a great idea. Lets put them to the test with the most constants phisically possible! Both substrates I took out of the bag (huray for left overs). Pulled a run of glosso from one of my tanks. Cut off 4 identical pieces and placed 2 in each jar and filled with water. I'll keep track every few days or so. 


























I'll make a "tank" journal to keep track of it here:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?p=5063297&posted=1#post5063297


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## AHP

Humm I was looking at ActivFlora as well. Now I might stick around to see this test.


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## THE V

Ooooh scientific method at work!!

Didn't expect that. Did you weigh out the soil to make sure you had the same amount? No sneaking in roundup in a few weeks into the eco. ;-)


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## NanoDave

I wish I could be that scientific with it but if I weighed it the Eco-Compelete would probably be full and the ActivFlora would prob be half full as ActivFlora is much more dense and quite heavy. This is really as close as I can get the experiment with the same variables. Maybe when I get my rack system I've been dreaming of set up I'll do a few tanks of each and really see the long term results.


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## Subtletanks91

What about flora max then. Because flora max looks exactly like Eco complete. And it is volcanic rock. You can tell by the formation and surface of each piece of gravel. I have a tank with azoo plant grower bed. And in my 55 I have flora max. I have to use root tabs in my 55 especially for my swords and crypts. But my other tank there is no need for them or fert dosing, my hair grass has even started a carpet ands it's been almost three months since I introduced the dhg. 

So my question is, is flora max as useless as Eco complete.


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## NanoDave

Subtletanks91: I've actually been looking into FloraMax very heavily lately as it's on sale at a Petsmart near me for $6 a bag! As far as I know FloraMax is very close to Eco-Complete but I hear you need to wash it a lot before use or it'll cloud up easily. I'm planning on doing a rack system for marmorkrebs and might end up picking up a couple bags. I wouldn't say any substrate is "useless" but some are definetly better than others. The reason I posted this thread was to get peoples opinion on why they choose a larger substrate to carpet or scape with when it seems to not work as well as finer grade. Also wanted to let people know about this amazing product (ActivFlora) in efforts to advance the hobby and share my success.


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## The Trigger

I'm interested to see how this test turns out now. I swear by eco complete so this should be interesting


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## Coldwater King

These people were talking about it...
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=72176


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## NanoDave

Coldwater King: I read the thread, not a lot of experienced people posting about it unfortunatley. Like all the people who reported great sucess I too washed it once or twice to prevent it from clouding. Some people must have confused the substrate with something else though as one person mentions it was tough to plant plants in even at 3" deep. Either he did something incredibly wrong or I think mixed up his products as this is idiot proof in the sense of plantability...is that a word? In any event I've made a tank journal and will be following it's progression very closely. Unless the Eco-Compelete out proforms substantially I will always go with ActivFlora for it's ease of planting, carpeting, and just plain good unifrom black looks.


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## The Trigger

Hey I say if you like it, use it


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## sjp502

This will be fun to watch!! Wish the result was in already though... hate waiting for next episode to come out... haha


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## Coldwater King

Actually I want to set up a new tank soon, and I was going to use a special mix... and I might substitute the eco complete for this.


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## NanoDave

Depending on what your planting 95% of the time I would recommend ActivFlora over Eco-Complete. Just my opinion though.


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## The Trigger

NanoDave said:


> Depending on what your planting 95% of the time I would recommend ActivFlora over Eco-Complete. Just my opinion though.


If I start a tank in the near future I'll have to try this. You seem to give it some pretty high praise. You try any other carpeting plants in it like HC or DHG?


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## NanoDave

I've only recently grown DHG and HC and another plant a fellow PTF member gave me on a visit to his house. Glosso is the only one out of the 4 that I could even get to "carpet". I do have flying fox's (siamese algae eaters) in one tank and if they even looked at the plants they came up. Gave that plant another member had on here a try in some left over Eco-Complete and it failed within 3 days in large bowl with an airstone and 2 small feeder goldfish. Don't worry the feeder fish are "gone" now haha.

Here's some pics of my frustration I dealt with two weeks back.
Day 1:









Day 2:









Day 3:









Today:









Where the feeders went if you were wondering 0.0!
[URL="http://youtu.be/u8FOCNc-w8o"/URL] ....


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## prighello

Do you have to rinse activ flora or is it good to go out of the bag? I've never seen this stuff in person but your pics have made me interested. I like the look of it compared to eco complete.


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## NanoDave

I always rinse any substrate I get. I know it says it contains .... and .... and you don't need to rinse but I always have. I typically rinse ActivFlora once or twice in a 5G bucket filled 1/3 at a time. Eco-Complete I usually rinse a few times as a lot of particles get trapped in the little crevices on the bigger pieces and it clouds more if I don't.


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## NanoDave

I posted this in the tank journal section but seems their are so many people doing journals the post quickly gets lost so I'll probably update both threads to make it easier to find. :-/

So figured I'd check how the "battle" was fairing (not expecting anything different) before going to bed and noticed something very interesting...










ActivFlora glosso seems to have a small bubble as if it were pearling. I've never seen pearling without co2 and dosing ferts so is it truly pearling or just a random bubble?


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## prighello

IDK, but I've seen xmas moss pearl in a small container I put it in on my windowsill prior to adding it to my tank. So maybe?


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## NanoDave

Huh, interesting. I see my gloss in my 12 Long pearl daily but thats understandable as it's high tech. This is bordering no tech and still pearl. Maybe it's a "left over bubble" from the 12 long haha.


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## kman

Heck, you've nearly got me sold on ActivFlora. I don't _mind_ the look of Eco-Complete, but I do prefer the all-black look of the ActivFlora. And it's definitely been a pain in the arse to keep plants rooted in Eco-Complete, since it's so lightweight.

Of course, now I have to find the stuff, since I don't see it (in black, anyway) on Amazon...


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## prighello

Well I just ordered some for a 12" cube I have on the way so we'll see how it goes


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## NanoDave

Nice, post your picks and responses on how you like it vs Eco-Complete. I would love to hear more thoughts and comparisons as the more opinions the better.


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## DarkCobra

Interested to see your results.

I looked at some pics of the various ActiveFlora colors, and it seems to me I've seen a visually identical product in the past, sold overseas, and made from expanded shale. If I remember correctly, as that was years ago when I was looking at cheap alternate substrates. I did find a US-based aggregate manufacturer (Haydite) who sells and ships bonsai-grade expanded shale, plus a semi-local reseller. And one(!) person who tried it in a planted tank, reporting remarkable results. But the sample I obtained didn't look at all like what other photos showed, it was just way too ugly to consider using.


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## NanoDave

Huh, interesting. Well idk how long this stuff has been around, at least 4 years I believe but no one ever seems to talk about it. I just find it so odd that something thats visualy so unifrom and apealing in color not to mention great (personal) results isn't talked about as much. Another LFS has started carrying it by me as well now. Will def be swapping some plant clippings to start building a stock pile of it in preperation for my rack system I wish to start someday.


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## Coldwater King

How big are the "Rocks" that make up the substrate? How do carpeting plants do in this?


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## NanoDave

Coldwater King: Which substrate are you referring to? Eco-Complete varies in size from grain to grain vastly where ActivFlora is the size of the smallest pieces in Eco-Complete. The "finer" the substrate the easier it is to plant as well as carpet. Hope that answers your questions.


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## prighello

kman said:


> Heck, you've nearly got me sold on ActivFlora. I don't _mind_ the look of Eco-Complete, but I do prefer the all-black look of the ActivFlora. And it's definitely been a pain in the arse to keep plants rooted in Eco-Complete, since it's so lightweight.
> 
> Of course, now I have to find the stuff, since I don't see it (in black, anyway) on Amazon...


That pet place has it in stock for $18 plus shipping. This stuff is hard to find.


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## Coldwater King

I was referring to the activ-flora, I really like how this substrate is matching up to the so called amazing eco complete (nothing against eco complete but it is just praised in such a huge way).


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## NanoDave

$18+ shipping 0.0! I'm excited to pay $20ish with my discounts. Beats the heck out of $35 for Eco-Complete hah. Not to mention I find ActivFlora a far superior substrate.


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## kman

prighello said:


> That pet place has it in stock for $18 plus shipping. This stuff is hard to find.


Which pet place?


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## NanoDave

Had a PM request to make a video and figured I'd also post it here

http://youtu.be/wq_JhL-96Wk


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## Coldwater King

kman said:


> Which pet place?



It is a online store, that pet place/that fish place.


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## kman

Coldwater King said:


> It is a online store, that pet place/that fish place.


Sorry if I'm being obtuse, but I'm still not seeing what you mean. It seems like you're referring to PetCo or PetSmart, but I'm not sure... and I've already searched both of those websites for "ActivFlora" and neither turned up hits. Amazon carries a few varieties, but not the Black version being tested by the OP.


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## kman

Coldwater King said:


> It is a online store, that pet place/that fish place.


Ah, you were being _literal_, thanks. thatpetplace.com I'll check them out!

Edit: Out of stock. 

http://www.thatpetplace.com/activ-flora-premium-planted-substrate


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## prighello

This thread must have spurred some buying  Maybe they'll get more in. Hope they fill my order.


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## Coldwater King

That sucks I was going to buy some.


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## FishStix

I am very interested to see the feed back about ActiveFlora over the next few months. I will be setting up a 265 in April, and was going to go with Flourite Black Sand, but now ActiveFlora might be another option.


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## kman

My LFS has about 10 bags of the black ActivFlora in stock, so I'm going to pick up a few today at lunch.  Since it's a long weekend, that should give me plenty of time to rescape my tank at home!

Is there a way to do this without having to re-cycle the tank? I think I've read about putting an amount of the original substrate in a bag (like panty hose or similarly breathable) to bring the bacteria colonies forward to the new tank? My tank is small, 6 gallons, so I don't have a huge amount room, but I could make room for a decent amount of it, certainly.


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## DarkCobra

Does anyone know if ActivFlora also turns to mud after a few months/years, like EcoComplete? If not known, [NanoDave], could you try repeatedly freezing/thawing a small sample in water to test for long-term stability?


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## kman

DarkCobra said:


> Does anyone know if ActivFlora also turns to mud after a few months/years, like EcoComplete? If not known, [NanoDave], could you try repeatedly freezing/thawing a small sample in water to test for long-term stability?


Why would Eco Compete turn to mud? It's essentially crushed lava rock, which is hardy stuff. It should stay stable nearly indefinitely.


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## kman

NanoDave said:


> The Trigger:
> I actually first found this at a Petco in NJ that had been converted from a big LFS and was selling off all remaining products. Bought one 16lb bag for $7 on clearance! Needless to say went back and bought their last 6 bags the next day after I fell in love with it! I've used all 6 bags and now have 50lbs of eco sitting in a bucket in the basement . Had my LFS order some more for me and my friends. Selling at $25 a bag where Eco-Complete is $33 0.0....YATZEE!





NanoDave said:


> $18+ shipping 0.0! I'm excited to pay $20ish with my discounts. Beats the heck out of $35 for Eco-Complete hah. Not to mention I find ActivFlora a far superior substrate.


FWIW, though that bag of ActivFlora is a 16 lb bag, while the Eco Complete is a 20 lb bag. You'll also likely need more ActivFlora with any sort of shaped scape, because it's smaller and denser. I had to buy two bags of ActivFlora to fill my tank to same level as one bag of Eco. (I should get more coverage out of the two bags of AF combined, but one bag vs. one bag, the Eco offers more, so you ultimately pay more for the ActivFlora.)


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## NanoDave

kman: Yea I should have mentioned that you do usually need a little more than eco. Also note though you don't have to deal with settling. I've made 8" tall scapes with eco in my 29 and within a few months after water changes and such it turned to 6". Eco has a very un-uniform consistency which will lead to settling of smaller debris and leave you with "boulders" at the top :-/. ActivFlora will never settle and hills stay the shape and size they are made at which is a big plus for me in scaping. 

DarkCobra: I don't see why it would turn to mud, It's not like aquasoil (which eventually does). Like kman mentioned it's basically lava rock which is fairly hard and won't break down much if at all. I def don't mind experimenting with some though as now you have me curious. If you could briefly explain to me how freezing and thawing will help show time deterioration. Also if you could explain what type of container, how much substrate, how much water, etc I could give it a try. I would imagine a plastic tupperware with 1" of substrate and 2" of water possibly?


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## DarkCobra

My mistake - was confusing EcoComplete with Aquasoil. Sorry for the confusion.

A Tupperware container should be fine. Very little substrate is needed and just enough water to cover, though more doesn't hurt. The substrate must first be soaked for a day or two so all the internal pores are filled with water. Then fully freeze it, and fully thaw it. Repeat.

If after a half dozen freeze/thaw cycles it doesn't appear to be falling apart, try crushing it. And if it's still as strong as substrate that hasn't undergone this process, then the repeated expansion of ice within pores wasn't enough to fracture it; meaning it's strong enough as a result of being fired to a high temperature that it should be stable indefinitely in the aquarium.

That doesn't mean the available mineral content will last forever, but some might appreciate the option of continuing to use the substrate with supplements rather than replacing it. If it turns to mud instead, there's really no getting around replacement.


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## NanoDave

Ineteresting. I'll most likely start this tonight, maybe freeze a time or two and do some more over the weekend. Sounds easy enough. I'll make a quick video to make sure everything looks good and a follow up one of the result. 

UPDATE: The gloss experiment is working quite well but at the same time inconclusive. All 4 plants I planted all have sprouted a new sprout! The Eco got the first sprout and the ActivFlora got the second two then followed by the Eco getting it's second one. I will note that the ActiveFlora did seem a little hazy the first 3 days after the experiement began but has cleared up. As for the Eco, an oily film has appeared on the surface but isn't too noticible, especially with a IPad camera . I'll post photo's Sunday when I post all my updates on my tank journals.


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## NanoDave

UPDATE: Heres pics taken this Sunday.


















The Eco-Complete grew the first new plant followed by ActivFlora growing the next two and finally Eco-Complete with the last one. Both have 4 plants in each glass so plant wise it's a tie. Just in the past day or two I have noticed the Eco-Complete plants starting to show signs of nutrient deficiency. I haven't added any nutrients to the containers so next week should be interesting. I did do 2 water changes thus far by simply running both containers under the faucet on a slow trickle. I wasn't planning of doing water changes but the Eco-Complete developed a slime coat almost and felt it was needed. The ActivFlora did have a little bit of settlement when I rinsed so both benefited I feel. I have noticed the Eco-Complete's substrate has really separated with the fine grain moving towards the bottom.


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## DarkCobra

Looking good so far. Watching for continued updates.


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## kman

I swapped out my Eco Complete in favor of Activ-Flora this past weekend.

So far I like it a LOT better than Eco. Heavier, more resistant to moving from movement in the water column, smaller granules so WAY easier to plant in, and truly black (which I like), unlike Eco which has a bunch of red lava rock mixed in. (Note there were a few small red flecks, but very minor, very few (so far easier to remove), and far less annoying than the red in the Eco Complete.)

It'll be interesting to see how well my Glosso carpets.


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## plantbrain

I think your biggest argument in favor is cost and looks, it's much nicer looking than EC, which is tacky. Growth, both are fairly inert, geological mineral analysis is different than say nutrient or fertility/availability. 

You should have had a plain rinse sand control and then a ADa AS or a mud, clay loam with a tiny bit of some osmocoat.

This would give you an upper and lower range comparison.

Also, you would be best off growing the plant emergent, this would remove any CO2 dependency between treatments. As long as the light was the same, then it'd be all up to the sediment type.

I'm sold, but for the above 2 reasons, looks much nicer/cheap.


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## NanoDave

It would be great to compare them to ADA or Stratum but I simply don't like rounded substrates and I've heard they turn to mud after years of use making water changes no fun. I would probably try them though if anyone carried them around here but even still I find it hard to justify the high cost of either.

I would love to see this thread lead to others conducting "experiments". Especially on the more technical and controlled side for more defined conclusions. I consider myself still fairly new in the world of aquariums (1 1/2years) and unfortunately don't have the knowledge yet to do so myself. That is truly one great thing about this hobby that I love. Theirs always new things to learn, improved products, and better rational on problems.


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## misterc007

following, I'm in the market for some substrate right now and I want something black. Where can you get activflora? I can't find it anywhere nor EC for that matter.


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## kman

misterc007 said:


> following, I'm in the market for some substrate right now and I want something black. Where can you get activflora? I can't find it anywhere nor EC for that matter.


I got lucky and my LFS had plenty on hand. I was striking out finding it online.

While I was researching, however, I did find posts that seemed to indicate is is exactly the same as SeaChem's Fluorite, which is a lot easier to find, but the Activ-Flora is sold "wet" and supposedly already has the active bacteria, etc. Take that with a grain of salt, but if you're planning to cycle your tank anyway, and just want the look (and texture), you might do fine with plain old black Fluorite.


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## NanoDave

UPDATE: Not too much new growth but I do notice another stem/runner starting on each.



















Can see noticeable deterioration and lack of nutrients it seems with the Eco-Complete as the days progress. Will be sure to update Sunday.


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## prighello

kman said:


> I got lucky and my LFS had plenty on hand. I was striking out finding it online.
> 
> While I was researching, however, I did find posts that seemed to indicate is is exactly the same as SeaChem's Fluorite, which is a lot easier to find, but the Activ-Flora is sold "wet" and supposedly already has the active bacteria, etc. Take that with a grain of salt, but if you're planning to cycle your tank anyway, and just want the look (and texture), you might do fine with plain old black Fluorite.


IDK, I just got a bag and it doesn't look quite the same as fluorite, but then I am comparing black AF to red/tan fluorite so maybe?


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## PeterN1986

Any update on this?


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## NanoDave

PeterN1986: Sure, here you go :red_mouth

UPDATE: A little more noticable growth in the past few days. Something to definetly note is that one of the glosso runner stems seems to be not rooting into the substrate as much. Starting to see visible signs of the gloss staying lower and more compact with ActivFlora vs. Eco-Complete.


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## greenteam

Man you know what stinks about watching this lol. I live in Florida where this stuff is made and I can't find a single LFS that sells its. 

Spent the morning calling around even called the manufacturer and they could not point me to one store that had it on shelf's lol.


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## prighello

Seems like they could sell a lot more if they pushed their distribution footprint and did some real marketing to build product awareness. Visually this stuff kicks eco-complete's a$$.


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## NanoDave

I hear ya. It's a hidden gem to say the least. I went to a semi LFS last week and saw 30+ bags of Eco-Complete and not one bag of ActivFlora. It a shame such a great product is so hard to find. My LFS here in RI has about 5 more bags left after they ordered a bunch a few weeks back. I'll be reserving 2 for a fellow PTF RI-er tomorrow. I wish shipping wasn't so darn expensive or I'd ship some out to people


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## kman

Gee, I feel like I should grab a couple bags from my LFS and put them aside for a rainy day!

If anyone needs some in LA...


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## NanoDave

I honestly did just that kman a couple weeks ago. Around the same time I posted on here was when I finally found a LFS that could get in a decent amount of bags. A week after I posted on here many distributors sold out including the wholeseller my LFS bought their bags from. In any event I'm glad I purchased a few bags and might even buy their last few tomorrow when I go, just to be safe. I know one day I'll do another large tank or set up my rack system and be glad I bought it.


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## AHP

Thansk for the updates. I am really starting to come around to ActivFlora.

One question that came up. If I remember correctly you said you have used this in tanks before.
My question is what is the longest you have used ActivFlora in a tank and at what time if any did the color fade?


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## NanoDave

I've used ActivFlora in 8 of my 14 tanks. The largest I have this in is my 12 long but that doesn't mean I wouldn't use it in a large tank. I really enjoy nano tanks (hence my name) so the majority of my tanks are under 12 gallons. My 12 long has had this substrate in it for a year and as far as I can tell it hasn't lightened at all. Kinda hard to tell though as the entire tank is covered in an immensely thick carpet of glosso though . I can say though that I've had Eco-Complete in my 29 for the a year and 2 months and it has gotten lighter. I don't think the substrate it self changed color more that it used to be darker because the finer pieces were dark but after time they settle leaving the bigger lighter chunks at the surface. Unlike Eco-Complete ActivFlora never really settles as I can see as it's all uniform in size. Here's a quick list of my tanks and their evolution from start to now:

75g - Super Naturals Quartz based sand (not planted)
29g - Eco-Complete (heavily planted with stem plants mostly)
20L - Super Naturals Quartz based sand (few stem plants)
12L - ActivFlora (Glosso carpet)
10g - ActivFlora (Moss tree and java fern, redoing entire tank tonight or tomorrow with new plants)
4g - ActivFlora (Dwarf baby tears/dwarf hair grass carpet) (used to be Eco-Complete but failed to carpet properly)
2.5g - ActivFlora (Dwarf hair grass carpet)
2.5g - River rock (not planted)
2.5g - River rock (not planted)
2.5g - Eco-Complete (not planted)
2g - ActivFlora (Glosso carpet, stem plants) (used to be Eco-Complete but failed to carpet properly)
1g - ActivFlora (Glosso carpet) (used to be Eco-Complete but failed to carpet properly)
1g - ActivFlora (Glosso carpet) (used to be Eco-Complete but failed to carpet properly)
1/2g - ActivFlora (Dwarf hair grass experiment)

As you can see I've switched a couple tanks to ActivFlora after a few months of not being happy with the results from Eco-Complete. I've only been keeping planted tanks for a year and half but in that time have learned exponentially what works good for what. I doubt I'll ever convert my 29 to ActivFlora as my big stem plants seem to do fine in there. I've also found bulbs grow much better in Eco-Complete than ActivFlora I think for the simple fact that it's not as compact and allows for more water surface throughout. If I were to say do a 40 breeder or something of the sort planted I would most likely use ActivFlora. Really depends on what your trying to do. generally speaking the smaller and more consistent the substrate the easier it is to plant and keep plants rooted. I also really enjoy the aesthetics of ActivFlora over Eco-Complete. At $25 for 16 lb. bag of ActivFlora vs $35 for 20 lb. bag of Eco-Complete I can't see using Eco-Complete in the future much as they're alsmot the same cost and ActivFlora seems to grow plants better... for me at least. Hope that helps.


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## kman

Wow, do you really have 14 tanks?!?

I'd be surprised if ActivFlora ever gets lighter. I think it's inherently black, not died. Like volcanic rock. (the non-reddish brown variety, that is)


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## NanoDave

kman: Yea 14 to me is just the start I feel. I'm "submerged" in the desire to have tanks :tongue:. My next endeavor will be to make a rack system most likely comprised of 7 10g's and 2 20L's for breading some Marmorkrebs and mollies I have. I have a vast amount of free time at home as I can work from home to do the majority of what I feel needs to be done. Not to mention I usually end up writing emails and making calls for a few hours then take a break and fiddle with tanks for an hour or so then back to work. I love what I do I often will be up late at 2am making excel sheets and going over documents. In all that time I spend a few hours a day researching, go on forums, and mess with my tanks to break it up. Honestly I get bored only having 14 tanks most the time and always dream of having more to rescape, look at, bread things in, etc. haha. It definitely doesn't help (financially) that my job takes me through the entire state of RI to cover surgery's at hospitals and theirs a decent amount down time so I swing into pet stores quite often.I always seem to find the best deals on anything I buy so definitely helps. I used to play video games (in the winter) a few years back in my free time and feel filling that void with fishtanks and building projects is more productive and rewarding. At least thats how I sell it to my gf and she agrees and loves looking at all the tanks. haha


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## kman

LOL Nice! My wife would kill me if I took up that much space in our house with tanks, but that comes with the territory when you marry an interior designer... at least the place looks nice, but I have a short chain when it comes to adding things that don't work with "the look" of the place.


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## prighello

Borrowing from speaker design you're also got to consider WAF (wife approval factor) of a given tank. For my wife at least, the setup's got to look good e.g. minimum number of wires, hoses, etc and well groomed pleasant scape.


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## NanoDave

Very true prighello. My gf loves the tanks because they're always supper clean and scaped well. Plus I always let here pick out a fish or two to go in a few of the tanks . kman you should google feng shui pics with tanks in them then just leave the browsers open. "IDK how that got there!?"


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## prighello

Just had to throw this in because its funny and over the top:

http://www.extravaganzi.com/sleep-w...de-aquarium-bed-by-acrylic-tank-manufacuring/

I think it'd take a special significant other to accept it


----------



## kman

NanoDave said:


> Very true prighello. My gf loves the tanks because they're always supper clean and scaped well. Plus I always let here pick out a fish or two to go in a few of the tanks . kman you should google feng shui pics with tanks in them then just leave the browsers open. "IDK how that got there!?"


LOL She loves the one tank I have, but it's a pretty stylish tank (Fluval Edge), and it's small (6 gals). A bunch of normal, open-top tanks would be an issue, however.

I could (and probably will, at some point) talk her into one more smallish one, a sleek and modern rimless cube, ~5-8 gals, with lush greenery and an Iwagumi layout. I've shown her some of the award winning tanks and she loved them. 

She grew up with a really fancy built-in saltwater tank, so she likes having fish, it's just a matter of maintenance and making sure it looks good with the house. Built-in is not really an option with our house's construction (and my budget) and a lot of open tanks on every horizontal surface wouldn't go over well, either. But I can probably squeeze one more in the house, still...


----------



## NanoDave

Haha I hear ya. I've gotten creative with a few of my tank placements.



















Sometimes you just need to get creative . I kinda hope we move soon though as she and I both would love a fish room. If giving an entire room dedicated to tanks isn't love idk what is!


----------



## Coldwater King

How is the test going?


----------



## Mjmaverick

Planning to use some combination of fluorite, eco-complete and activ flora in my new planted tank set up. New to planted tanks. Any thoughts or tips? Also, can anyone give me some input on the Black Diamond I have seen mentioned in a couple threads? All substrates mentioned will be black. Thanks.


----------



## Lynrem

Mjmaverick said:


> Planning to use some combination of fluorite, eco-complete and activ flora in my new planted tank set up. New to planted tanks. Any thoughts or tips? Also, can anyone give me some input on the Black Diamond I have seen mentioned in a couple threads? All substrates mentioned will be black. Thanks.



A lot of info and discussion on Black diamond in this thread

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=228122&highlight=


----------



## kman

Mjmaverick said:


> Planning to use some combination of fluorite, eco-complete and activ flora in my new planted tank set up. New to planted tanks. Any thoughts or tips? Also, can anyone give me some input on the Black Diamond I have seen mentioned in a couple threads? All substrates mentioned will be black. Thanks.


A couple of thoughts:

1) Eco Complete is not truly black. It's more of a dark gray, mixed with some red gravel also. (lava rock reddish/orangish)

2) The finer substrate will always work its way to the bottom, leaving the largest particles on top. You'll end up with a stratified mix, over time, with the very fine black diamond sand on the bottom, slightly larger fluorite on top of that, then Activ Flora and finally the relatively large eco complete on top. Fine if that's what you want, but I'd just pick one and be done. None of the substrates listed have actual active fertilization (like a true soil would) so you'll need to supplement anyway.


----------



## Mjmaverick

Cool, thanks alot for the information. Thinking I will end up just picking one and rolling with it.


----------



## prighello

Mjmaverick said:


> Cool, thanks alot for the information. Thinking I will end up just picking one and rolling with it.


Better to just use one. There's really no benefit to mixing them since they are all inert.


----------



## NanoDave

UPDATE: Hi all, Sorry I've been slacking on the updates. This past week's snowstorms has the OR's flooded with patients and I've been tied up with surgery's all week. In any event I've found some time so here are the updated pics.



















The Eco-Complete glosso has slowed growth horizontally and has been growing more vertically this past week or so. The ActivFlora hasn't spread out too much but instead carpeting more compactly. Both still show a few new runners but the difference between health in the matured plants is very noticeable between to two substrates. I actually think the Eco-Complete might be starting to get algae growth as well. Not sure why only the Eco-Complete is getting it but does make me curious. I'll update this weekend hopefully.


----------



## Absolut Talent

was that the eco-complete black (courser) grade?
I have been trying to find a suitable black substate and had my hopes on the eco-complete. But after seeing it in those pics, it looks more brown/reddish and I dont like that. 
Now you got me thinking ActivFlora is the way to go. But how does it hold up to gravel vacs? Will it drop back down like gravel? Or will it be sucked up like sand? Are the grains bigger than sand?


----------



## kman

Absolut Talent said:


> was that the eco-complete black (courser) grade?
> I have been trying to find a suitable black substate and had my hopes on the eco-complete. But after seeing it in those pics, it looks more brown/reddish and I dont like that.
> Now you got me thinking ActivFlora is the way to go. But how does it hold up to gravel vacs? Will it drop back down like gravel? Or will it be sucked up like sand? Are the grains bigger than sand?


Yes, that's the "black" eco complete, mine is the same. I don't get how they get away with calling that "black" personally. Much bigger grains than ActivFlora. ActivFlora is bigger than sand but smaller than Eco. Absolutely black, unlike Eco Complete. No problems with a gravel vac. Falls down at least as well as Eco Complete did, I'd say, maybe a smidge better but at least tied. (Not that Eco fell down really well, because it's very light weight stuff and fairly floaty. Looks heavy, but it's not.) I don't vacuum gravel much, so I'm working from memory.


----------



## NanoDave

From my personaly experience of gravel vacing both I'd say ActivFlora is heavier than 75% of Eco-Complete. I gravel vac 2 5g buckets from my 29 once every few months and I always end up with a few handfulls of gravel that I have to dump back in somewhere. ActivFlora I would say I only get a handfull max with doing 2 5g buckets. I also find I don't need to gravel vac ActivFlora as much as waste doesn't sink and settle in the substrate as much and simply stays on top. With eco complete I can literally see a line of waste 1" deep where it has settled through the bigger pieces but has stopped before the smaller grade rocks which are about 1" down.


----------



## kman

Yeah, that sounds about right, actually.


----------



## NanoDave

UPDATE: Well a little past due on this update but honestly not much has changed. Here's the pics:



















ActivFlora seems healthier and more compact and lush, Eco-Complete seems to be growing towards the surface a lot more and is browning in some spots :-/.


----------



## daphilster08

Thanks for doing this project. Judging on this, I would buy activflora


----------



## bazr57

daphilster08 said:


> Thanks for doing this project. Judging on this, I would buy activflora


came here to pretty much say the same thing, except that I DID buy activflora. bought 96lbs, hopefully that is enough for my 100 gallon. Also, hopefully I get good results like the ones seen in this thread.


----------



## FishStix

Do any of you notice does the activflora have a lot of dust or turn to powder, I have read lot of reviews that were not very good about it, but they were back in 2009. Just wondering, as i am about to order a bag of activflora, black moon sand, flourite black and flourite black sand. I need about 25 bags, so I want to make sure I get what I really like the best.


----------



## Absolut Talent

yeah, this thread has me sold on the Activ-flora too. I like how its keeping the black color to it where the eco-complete looks like mud. And I really want my next tank to be done "right" since its going to be my biggest (im sure 33 long isnt big compared to everyone else who has 55+.... but comming from my 5.5 and 10 its a huge jump)


----------



## prighello

FishStix said:


> Do any of you notice does the activflora have a lot of dust or turn to powder, I have read lot of reviews that were not very good about it, but they were back in 2009. Just wondering, as i am about to order a bag of activflora, black moon sand, flourite black and flourite black sand. I need about 25 bags, so I want to make sure I get what I really like the best.


I haven't had it very long so I can't comment on how it ages but there was no dust. The stuff comes wet and didn't cloud the water or anything.


----------



## NanoDave

I've had ActivFlora running in my 12 long for about a year now and it hasn't clouded or broken down at all. I will also say it doesn't allow for as much fish waste to settle through the substrate as Eco-Complete or those larger grained substrates. When I syphon my ActivFlora I only need to skimm the surface and I get 90% of the waste. When I syphon Eco-Complete and only skim like ActivFlora I practically get nothing so I constantly have to push the syphon into the substrate to get the waste out. After syphoning Eco-Complete and dumping the bucket theirs always a really fine almost mud silt substrate left in the bottom of the bucket which I assume is Eco-Completes finest grade particles. I foresee in a few years just a bunch of big ol rocks with Eco-Complete. Never the case with ActivFlora as it's uniform and hasn't broken down so I never get that sludge, silt combo. Here's some pics to show you what I mean:


----------



## kamebard

I've got another 14G and 5G I am going to be setting up here this week. I'm going to try the active flora in the 5G, and Eco-complete/ActiveFlora in the 14G.

I also have a 1.5 pt Mason Jar I'm going to set up as a picotope and use some ActivFlora in it. Throw in some annibus, some marimo balls and 2 shrimps (all girl club). I'm going to call it shriner's bikini bottoms


----------



## CAPSLOK

Does anyone know if the "lake gems" activ-flora has the same properties as the black? IE - good CEC, consistent size, ideal size for plants, easy to plant in, etc? 

In the pictures the lake gems color looks like larger, rounded pieces that wouldn't really have much if any CEC. It really looks more like tiny regular gravel.


----------



## Menace

I really wish I would have known about this stuff before I purchased my Aquarium Sand which was more expensive at that.  I think $23 for a 20lb bag.


----------



## kman

Menace said:


> I really wish I would have known about this stuff before I purchased my Aquarium Sand which was more expensive at that.  I think $23 for a 20lb bag.


Wow, that's some expensive aquarium sand! I paid more than that for my Activ-Flora, but not much. Sand should definitely be cheaper than this specialty stuff, though.

I really like the Activ-Flora, but I still am up in the air about what I'll do for my next tank. I might go MGOPS and cap it with that cheap black diamond blasting sand that's so popular. A smooth black sand look really nice, and is better for the little ADF froggies I want in my next tank.


----------



## Menace

kman said:


> Wow, that's some expensive aquarium sand! I paid more than that for my Activ-Flora, but not much. Sand should definitely be cheaper than this specialty stuff, though.
> 
> I really like the Activ-Flora, but I still am up in the air about what I'll do for my next tank. I might go MGOPS and cap it with that cheap black diamond blasting sand that's so popular. A smooth black sand look really nice, and is better for the little ADF froggies I want in my next tank.


Petco... I do like the look of the sand but it has no benefit other than looking nice and being expensive. I don't know what MGOPS is tho. I kinda like the look of white sand but Floralite (The Activ-Flora version of white) doesn't look very white so that's disappointing. Tank is too new for me to think about swapping it out and I don't really have any place for a new tank... lol


----------



## kman

Menace said:


> Petco... I do like the look of the sand but it has no benefit other than looking nice and being expensive. I don't know what MGOPS is tho. I kinda like the look of white sand but Floralite (The Activ-Flora version of white) doesn't look very white so that's disappointing. Tank is too new for me to think about swapping it out and I don't really have any place for a new tank... lol


Miracle Gro Organic Potting Soil. Definitely not the pretty top layer.  Obviously chock full of goodness for plants, so you can put whatever looks prettiest on top and the plants will still do great.


----------



## Optix

Anyone know the deal with the AF shortage?...order so many bags...they send a third of my order and I can't find it anywhere else...looking for AF black


----------



## FishStix

Optix said:


> Anyone know the deal with the AF shortage?...order so many bags...they send a third of my order and I can't find it anywhere else...looking for AF black


That not good. About to order 25 bags in about a month. 

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk


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## kman

Optix said:


> Anyone know the deal with the AF shortage?...order so many bags...they send a third of my order and I can't find it anywhere else...looking for AF black


No, but I'm hoarding an unopened bag in my garage. 

Just what I need, another ammo hoarding situation... LOL


----------



## Absolut Talent

I know thatpetplace was going to get about 40 bags in, in about 2 weeks
But it seems they are shorting distribution to get more orders through their own storefront (fishbowl or something)
I think I am going to snatch up my 3 bags when they get them in so its ready to go for my next tank


----------



## Optix

Artificial shortages eh?...I plan to use 3 bags in a 20 gallon long, 2 wasn't enough...I want to eventually get to a 75 or so when we buy a house...maybe I'll just stay buying it one bag at a time every few weeks


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## kamebard

Some of my notes

1) Clear pour - can safely pour directly into the tank without rinsing.
2) Much easier to root than eco-complete or fluval (push plant in, done - fluval and ecocomplete has a bit of wiggling and holding down needed
3) Growth on the activ flora is much more pronounced than that of the ecocomplete/fluval
4) Activflora is much smaller and may not play that nicely with undergravel filters, however because it is smaller, it much easier to "pack" and maneuver.
5) Waste tends to stay at the top of the substrate, not much in the way of waste drift.
6) Much darker, and stays darker. Eco complete tends to brown/grey out over time


----------



## mightymizz

Still waiting to set up my new tank with this stuff, but cant find the black activ-flor anywhere..

How deep should the substrate ideally be?


----------



## kman

mightymizz said:


> Still waiting to set up my new tank with this stuff, but cant find the black activ-flor anywhere..
> 
> How deep should the substrate ideally be?


Usually about 3", but depends on tank. Silly to have 3" in a 3 gallon nano.


----------



## mightymizz

Thanks, this will be on a standard 29g.

Any ideas where to find some of this stuff? Like 3 bags?


----------



## Absolut Talent

I need some help decyphering their instructions with this. 



> "This bag is sufficient for about a 5 cm (2 inch) deep bed in a typical 40 L (10 gallon) tank.
> *Recommended use is 1 kg (2lbs) for approximately each 200 cm (31 in) of tank bottom at a depth of 5 cm (2 in).* "


So if Im reading that right, 2lbs of product will give me enough to do a 2" deep run in a space of 1"x31"?
So each bag will cover roughly 496 sq inch of space?
So if I need to do a 48x13 sq tank @ 2" (1248 sq inch), I need roughly 2.5 bags?

Is that right or is my brain and math shot for the night?


----------



## fablau

Anyone knows where to buy ActivFlora online??! Seems impossible to find!


----------



## cifinest33rd

The petstore.com

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## kman

mightymizz said:


> Thanks, this will be on a standard 29g.
> 
> Any ideas where to find some of this stuff? Like 3 bags?


Depends on where you are on the "west coast". There are some local (to me) shops (no online presence) that carry it. I haven't seen a shop with the black activ-flora in stock for at least a month if not two.


----------



## kman

cifinest33rd said:


> The petstore.com
> 
> Sent from Petguide.com Free App


I think you mean _that_pet_place_.com ... Unless there really is another place?

That was the go-to place for online purchases, but they've been out of the black activ-flora for a month or two now.

http://www.thatpetplace.com/activ-flora-premium-planted-substrate-floracor-blk-16lb

They do carry other colors. But I'm not interested in those...


----------



## AGUILAR3

Found this just now? Same substrate everyone is looking for? It doesn't say it's"out of stock" but who knows during check out 

https://www.azgardens.com/p-1898-activflora-floracor-black-planted-aquarium-substrate.aspx


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## mightymizz

was going to order from that place, but it appears they wanted to charge me $40 for shipping plus the price for 3 bags...

Didn't end up purchasing from them.


----------



## FishStix

kman said:


> I think you mean _that_pet_place_.com ... Unless there really is another place?
> 
> That was the go-to place for online purchases, but they've been out of the black activ-flora for a month or two now.
> 
> http://www.thatpetplace.com/activ-flora-premium-planted-substrate-floracor-blk-16lb
> 
> They do carry other colors. But I'm not interested in those...


 They are out of stock again. I really want to buy this substrate, but I need 25 bags, it going to take me 6 months to get 25 bags at this rate. I emailed sales, to see if they can help me out, otherwise I will have to get fluorite black sand, I would rather not, but I cannot keep waiting.


----------



## mightymizz

25 bags? Wow!

I only need 3. Like I mentioned above, I was going to buy from that AZ place, but it looked like they were going to charge me $40 shipping just for 3 bags.


----------



## kman

FishStix said:


> They are out of stock again. I really want to buy this substrate, but I need 25 bags, it going to take me 6 months to get 25 bags at this rate. I emailed sales, to see if they can help me out, otherwise I will have to get fluorite black sand, I would rather not, but I cannot keep waiting.


They've been out of stock since at least early January.

With an order that large, I'd definitely see about contacting the company directly. Good luck!


----------



## AGUILAR3

mightymizz said:


> 25 bags? Wow!
> 
> I only need 3. Like I mentioned above, I was going to buy from that AZ place, but it looked like they were going to charge me $40 shipping just for 3 bags.



Shipping is $32 for 3 bags at 48+ lbs. That's not a bad price. Try shipping something semi large over 30+ lbs and you will more than likely pay $30+

For 25 bags, according to their shipping chart, a $500-$999 purchase is $72 for 400+ lbs. Not bad.


----------



## FishStix

AGUILAR3 said:


> Shipping is $32 for 3 bags at 48+ lbs. That's not a bad price. Try shipping something semi large over 30+ lbs and you will more than likely pay $30+
> 
> For 25 bags, according to their shipping chart, a $500-$999 purchase is $72 for 400+ lbs. Not bad.


Depending what sales people tell me I might just go with flourite black sand. 25 is a lot but figured that what I need for my tank. It 84 x 24 x 24

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk


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## prighello

FishStix said:


> Depending what sales people tell me I might just go with flourite black sand. 25 is a lot but figured that what I need for my tank. It 84 x 24 x 24
> 
> Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk


You'd hope they would work something out for a sale that large.:bounce:


----------



## peachii

I just re-did my 20 long with a bag of Activ-Flora - Floralite, the lighter color gravel. Let me say I was EXTREMELY unhappy when I poured it out of the bag and it looked just like a bag of 3.00 pea gravel from Lowe's. However - I started planting the plants (after I dumped quite a bit of black diamond on top of it and mixed it up, should have waited to do that) and the consistancy of the substrate was not at all like the pea gravel. It didn't plant like gravel and held my plants - even carpet plants in front down really, really well. I was pleasantly surprised after planting and was much happier. I did however call thatpetplace and change my order for the bags for my 40breeder to the Red color, to try it out.


----------



## Optix

...and still no updates on his test runs

I ordered 2 bags from Azgarden...just to see how that shipping works out...I had some money to burn

...and rejoice! since I over paid...it means that EVERY other place will get that stuff in spades just for the universe to screw with me...thats usually how it works


----------



## Menace

peachii said:


> I just re-did my 20 long with a bag of Activ-Flora - Floralite, the lighter color gravel. Let me say I was EXTREMELY unhappy when I poured it out of the bag and it looked just like a bag of 3.00 pea gravel from Lowe's. However - I started planting the plants (after I dumped quite a bit of black diamond on top of it and mixed it up, should have waited to do that) and the consistancy of the substrate was not at all like the pea gravel. It didn't plant like gravel and held my plants - even carpet plants in front down really, really well. I was pleasantly surprised after planting and was much happier. I did however call thatpetplace and change my order for the bags for my 40breeder to the Red color, to try it out.


How did the Floralite look on its own? I'm partial to white substrates and wanted to try the Floralite but it doesn't look like it would be a very good white substrate.


----------



## peachii

Menace said:


> How did the Floralite look on its own? I'm partial to white substrates and wanted to try the Floralite but it doesn't look like it would be a very good white substrate.


It was light with a bit of other colors mixed in but overall in the tank it was really light before I mixed in black diamond all in it. I'll see if i can get a picture of what it actually looks like. 

I'm pretty happy with it, we'll see how the plants grow in after a month or so.


----------



## mightymizz

So I just got 3 bags from a LFS. It comes wet with supposed bacteria in it.

Do you still recommend rinsing it, or just dumping it and the liquid in your tank??


----------



## tattooedfool83

Open the bag and dump it in the tank. Stuff works awesome.


----------



## mightymizz

tattooedfool83 said:


> Open the bag and dump it in the tank. Stuff works awesome.


Ok, so just dump it in, add remaining water, and start the cycle? I thought I read someone saying they rinsed their bags?


----------



## peachii

Activ-Flora comes with the stuff, bactieria, liquid in the bags to cycle your tank, or start it. If you wash it, you're washing the stuff to start your cycle down the drain.


----------



## kman

mightymizz said:


> Ok, so just dump it in, add remaining water, and start the cycle? I thought I read someone saying they rinsed their bags?


I've never rinsed mine. Pour it in the empty tank, sculpt as desired, add water (slowly), and enjoy! Once filtration is running, it should clear up overnight. 

Then cycle as with any substrate.


----------



## mightymizz

Thanks! I will dump it in and go from there. Looking forward to it coming in and getting the process started.


----------



## Aerodynamic

i am having a hardtime finding a site that sells the floracor black : \ non of the lfs carry it


----------



## fablau

Try here:

https://www.azgardens.com/p-1898-activflora-floracor-black-planted-aquarium-substrate.aspx


----------



## Aerodynamic

fablau said:


> Try here:
> 
> https://www.azgardens.com/p-1898-activflora-floracor-black-planted-aquarium-substrate.aspx


omg..thier shipping price is more than the price of the bag D:


----------



## fablau

Well, shipping charges are not clear actually in that website. I selected the non-live stock option, then I proceeds to checkout for ordering 2 bags, I opted for the PayPal payment option, and after the transaction (which didn't include shipping charges) I clicked the link to return to the merchant and their website gave me an error (!!!) so I don't even know if my order wen through!

I will find out and post here...


----------



## peachii

http://www.fantasybowls.com/decorative-aggregates.html

This is the company that makes Activ-Flora, so this orders directly from them.


----------



## mightymizz

The AZ website looks sketchy with their shipping prices. I wasn't able to officially find out how much the exact shipping cost would be even though I was almost to the point of paying. I just didn't feel comfortable with not knowing how much shipping they would charge me. Not the best business practice in my opinion.


----------



## Absolut Talent

Like peachii posted, thats the company's (activ-flora) official site. So they arent going to pass any shipping savings on to you (3 bags was going to be $50 shipping)

But keep tabs on thatpetplace. They should be getting some in (or so ive been told) really soon. I have been waiting to order my bags until they get them


----------



## prighello

Absolut Talent said:


> Like peachii posted, thats the company's (activ-flora) official site. So they arent going to pass any shipping savings on to you (3 bags was going to be $50 shipping)
> 
> But keep tabs on thatpetplace. They should be getting some in (or so ive been told) really soon. I have been waiting to order my bags until they get them


Yeah sometimes going direct to the manufacturer is more costly as they charge list price so as not to undercut their retailers.


----------



## kamebard

mightymizz said:


> The AZ website looks sketchy with their shipping prices. I wasn't able to officially find out how much the exact shipping cost would be even though I was almost to the point of paying. I just didn't feel comfortable with not knowing how much shipping they would charge me. Not the best business practice in my opinion.


AZ Gardens specializes in tank flora and fauna. If you are ordering live plants or fish, the shipping is clearly indicated by the price of the overall order. The shipping cost is the overnighting the order to your location.

However, if you are ordering heavier items (driftwood, substrate, stones, etc...), you should contact them for a quote on the shipping. Since this would most likely go by freight or ground, shouldn't be as much as the next morning air for the live things.


----------



## chunkychun

I recommend searching for reviews online for all vendors and checking Better business bureau if you can and for AZ Gardens especially:
http://www.bbb.org/tucson/business-.../arizona-aquatic-gardens-in-tucson-az-4000548


----------



## newplant

I think I am sold on the activ flora. I have two question. How much do you need for 75g with 4"x1.5" footprint? And what you think about the lake gems variety? What color is everyone using. I assume the properties are the same for all variations.

Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk


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## mightymizz

Wow, I guess after reading the BBB link, I am glad I didn't order from them.

Thanks for the heads up! 

I found some through a LFS, and went with black.


----------



## Optix

I ordered two bags from AZ garden...it was $60 shipped to NC

Wasn't that more expensive than that pet place...but I won't be back for more


----------



## Menace

Optix said:


> I ordered two bags from AZ garden...it was $60 shipped to NC
> 
> Wasn't that more expensive than that pet place...but I won't be back for more


Edit: Doesn't sound that bad. $30/bag.


----------



## prighello

I think TPP charged me like $7 to ship a bag.


----------



## Menace

Is it free shipping with TPP if you order over $89, or does that exclude substrate because of weight? I got free shipping when I ordered my Fluval Edge from them.


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## fablau

Ok, I could cancel my order at AZgarden, because shipping was $30 to ship two bags here in Southern California (!!) fortunately Peter at AZgarden has been very supportive with my order cancel request.

I will try to find it somewhere else with a much lower shipping cost.


----------



## fablau

Menace said:


> Is it free shipping with TPP if you order over $89, or does that exclude substrate because of weight? I got free shipping when I ordered my Fluval Edge from them.


Sorry, I must have missed something here... What place is TTP?


----------



## Menace

fablau said:


> Sorry, I must have missed something here... What place is TTP?


thatpetplace.com


----------



## kman

fablau said:


> Ok, I could cancel my order at AZgarden, because shipping was $30 to ship two bags here in Southern California (!!) fortunately Peter at AZgarden has been very supportive with my order cancel request.
> 
> I will try to find it somewhere else with a much lower shipping cost.


If you want to drive up to LA, there is at least one local shop that carries it.


----------



## Absolut Talent

aha! I knew it. NanoDave must have stock in this company (activ-flora). He comes around, pimps this product, drives demand up, doesnt update his progress on the experiment, and leaves us foaming at the mouth for a product thats hard to come by

/shakes fist angerly


Im still hoping TPP has it back in tomorrow or friday. Ive been waiting till their shipment comes in before I order my 3 or 4 bags.


----------



## mightymizz

Yeah, I wonder where NanoDave went?

I've seen him post on other threads and such!?

I'd still like to hear his ongoing thoughts/opinions with this substrate, since I bought 3 bags for my first planted aquarium venture.


----------



## peachii

thatpetplace is currently (or was last week) having a 6.99 shipping special on all aquarium products, including substrate - spend over 89.00 and it's free shipping no matter how heavy it is.


----------



## AquaAurora

peachii said:


> thatpetplace is currently (or was last week) having a 6.99 shipping special on all aquarium products, including substrate - spend over 89.00 and it's free shipping no matter how heavy it is.


I just wish they had the black in stock again =,= next lowest price I can find is $35+ before shipping (for same amount of activflora) x.x


----------



## fablau

Menace said:


> thatpetplace.com


Thanks!


----------



## fablau

kman said:


> If you want to drive up to LA, there is at least one local shop that carries it.


Really? Where?! I am willing!


----------



## kman

fablau said:


> Really? Where?! I am willing!


Aquarium City in Canoga Park. Give them a call to be sure how much they have on hand, but they had a stack of bags left (maybe 10?) when I picked up a spare about a week ago.


----------



## peachii

I haven't used it yet but I just got 2 bags of the red Activ-Flora, seeing it in the bag I'm quite happy with the color. Going to do a few of my smaller tanks with the white bag, already did a 20L with a bag + black diamond. It certainly brightens the tank up and my plants seem happy a week after planting. My snails haven't been able to uproot the plants so far either. Have to say I am happy with the color of both of them so far.


----------



## fablau

kman said:


> Aquarium City in Canoga Park. Give them a call to be sure how much they have on hand, but they had a stack of bags left (maybe 10?) when I picked up a spare about a week ago.


I will try to call then. Thank you!


----------



## CAPSLOK

Any word on if the lake gems color is the same consistency/size/plant-friendly as the black?


----------



## NanoDave

I personally feel the black "fine grade" substrate is better to grow in almost because it's a perfect size granule. It's just small enough to make planting extremely easy, keep in nutrients and root tabs longer, and not letting fish waste settle into the substrate while at the same time being big enough for the roots not to be compacted and creating anaerobic pockets. Yes it comes with "nutrients" but really all that is is fertilizers mixed in a bag of water.

I feel by buying the bigger ones your going to get the same effect as Eco-Complete where waste settles, harder to plant in, and smaller granule settle where larger pieces stay at the top. 

I personally only ever buy the small black granule as well... I know it works. I've creating amazing scapes and carpeted an entire tank in only 5 months time without adding a single root tab and only dosing a few liquid ferts. Unfortunately I've begin to smarten up and tried dosing with pre mixed dry ferts and ever since my tanks have been doing terrible. My glosso immediately started growing vertical rather than horizontal and all plants began having deficiencies. Seems the more I try to advance the tank with ferts and chasing that "magic rainbow" the worse it gets. I've since gone back to only dosing a few liquid ferts with the ActivFlora tanks and let me tell you... 100% comeback. Idk what it is about this stuff but the less I do with it the better the plants do. Might just be my good luck charm.


----------



## mightymizz

Thanks NanoDave.

What Ferts do you seem to be having more success with? I only ask since I am a complete newbie and would like a baseline to "start" from?

edit, Oh, also, I bought 4 bags of black for my 29g. I have a finnex planted plus that will be the light.


----------



## NanoDave

I've only ever really used the API Root Tabs sold at Petco's and such as they are redily available. I've heard good things about osmocote tabs that forum members make on here but never tried them so can't comment on them from personal experience. It took 6 months till I needed root tabs in the majority of my tanks that have ActivFlora. I usually wait to see how the plants do and dose accordingly.


----------



## tattooedfool83

Osmocote is great, except for the never ending balls that make it to the surface


----------



## AHP

Any updates? I am interested to see how it is going.


----------



## NanoDave

No more updates unfortunately. One of the containers fell last week and this week the other fell when the cat we are house sitting caused havok. In the end the ActivFlora stayed a lot like the last pic I took and only made a few new plants each. ActivFlora plant growth stayed more compact and all roots were in the substrate. As for the Eco-Complete the glosso began growing emersed and more vertical. It as well only had little new growth from the last picture I took. All new growth for the past month were "air roots" as none mad it to the substrate. 

For some bizarre reason the Eco-Complete became covered in algae and the ActivFlor didn't have any. Just before the Eco-Complete container fell I could hardly see inside the contained through the glass. 

Overall I would say the ActivFlora outpreformed the Eco-Complete by a long shot. The container fell a week earlier than the Eco-Completes and had a few more plantlets than the Eco-Complete did. All the roots were in the substratre and very minimal vertical growth with the ActivFlora. No algae on the ActivFlora where as the entire Eco-Complete container was covered by the end.

In the end, don't get a cat(or house sit one) and get some ActivFlora.


----------



## Optix

Le sigh...I think az garden had a shortage as well...the owner called me last night to say there would be a delay...ordered almost two weeks ago


----------



## Optix

BUMP... AF is available again at most outlets...my purchase shipped yesterday and I got all of the email notifications


----------



## FishStix

Optix said:


> BUMP... AF is available again at most outlets...my purchase shipped yesterday and I got all of the email notifications


 
For anyone that already has AF Black, is it all black, it does not have specs of other colors like eco does?

Thanks


----------



## Lazy Gremlin

Hey guys! Just wanted to give everyone a heads up... My order of AF shipped today from ThatFishPlace. Looks like it's back in stock at $18.39 a bag. Excited to try this stuff out!


Tapatalk.


----------



## kman

FishStix said:


> For anyone that already has AF Black, is it all black, it does not have specs of other colors like eco does?
> 
> Thanks


VERY black. There is a very rare bit of reddish rock (somewhat like EcoComplete, ironically), but easy enough to pluck out, and VERY rare and hard to notice unless you're really looking for it. Overall impression is definitely pure black... unlike Eco Complete, which claims to be black but in reality is more gray with lots of red mixed in.

Eco-Complete ("black"):









Activ-Flora (black):


----------



## Shremph

Picked up 5 bags of the black earlier today from That Place. I wanted 8, but they only had 5 in stock. Petco's dollar per gallon sale has me shopping to fill a few breeders and a 20.

Thanks for the great thread that sold me on this product!


----------



## peachii

LOL. 

This thread sold out thatpetplace in black ActivFlora in less that 2 days. Awesome.

I used the Floralite in my 20 long and the Red in my 40 breeder, so far I am extremely happy with both. Plants in both look really good on the colored substrate and are staying down in it just fine even though they are both bigger grained (more like rocks) than the black.


----------



## FishStix

kman said:


> VERY black. There is a very rare bit of reddish rock (somewhat like EcoComplete, ironically), but easy enough to pluck out, and VERY rare and hard to notice unless you're really looking for it. Overall impression is definitely pure black... unlike Eco Complete, which claims to be black but in reality is more gray with lots of red mixed in.
> 
> Eco-Complete ("black"):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Activ-Flora (black):


Thanks for the pictures, I ordered 1 bag to see if I like it.


----------



## FishStix

peachii said:


> LOL.
> 
> This thread sold out thatpetplace in black ActivFlora in less that 2 days. Awesome.
> 
> I used the Floralite in my 20 long and the Red in my 40 breeder, so far I am extremely happy with both. Plants in both look really good on the colored substrate and are staying down in it just fine even though they are both bigger grained (more like rocks) than the black.


It all NanoDave fault :smile:, you would think they would give him a % of the sales. ha ha I orderd one bag of black should be here Tuesday. I hope I can get the other 19 bags I will need by the time my tank ready in July. ha


----------



## msebar

My fault for 26 bags of the stuff. I will be releasing 13 of them back in stock. See my thread on does that fish place give free shipping. I placed one order for 13 bags and they wanted $83 for shipping. So I placed 2 order for 7 bags and 6 bags and got free shipping. I will be letting them know I don't want the 13 they have on hold. They had 40 bags come in. How I found this out is I called the distributor in Florida and they said 40 bags should arrive on the 26th of March. I placed my order on the 24th knowing this.


----------



## CAPSLOK

I helped clear them out of black again too - I ordered on the 28th, when Lazy Gremlin noted it was in stock. Funny since I had asked for an e-mail notification when it was in stock and never got e-mailed....

I'm figuring 2 1/2 bags in a 20g long - that sound right?


----------



## peachii

CAPSLOK said:


> I'm figuring 2 1/2 bags in a 20g long - that sound right?



That should be more than enough for sure.


----------



## kman

CAPSLOK said:


> I helped clear them out of black again too - I ordered on the 28th, when Lazy Gremlin noted it was in stock. Funny since I had asked for an e-mail notification when it was in stock and never got e-mailed....
> 
> I'm figuring 2 1/2 bags in a 20g long - that sound right?


I used about that in my 17g but I've got it pretty thick in there. Should be fine.


----------



## Neatfish

What about floramax?


----------



## msebar

I hope 13 bags will do for a 180.


----------



## kman

msebar said:


> I hope 13 bags will do for a 180.


I could be wrong, but I think that's more than you'll need. It doesn't scale linearly because volume increases faster than the actual tank footprint, and also tanks vary in height ratios. What is the footprint size of your 180g tank?


----------



## FishStix

How much do you think I will need for my 240. It 96x24. I plan to have lots of hills

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk


----------



## msebar

kman said:


> I could be wrong, but I think that's more than you'll need. It doesn't scale linearly because volume increases faster than the actual tank footprint, and also tanks vary in height ratios. What is the footprint size of your 180g tank?


72x24


----------



## kman

FishStix said:


> How much do you think I will need for my 240. It 96x24. I plan to have lots of hills





msebar said:


> 72x24


I used 2 bags in my 17 gal, approx 24x12. So expanding that to 72" instead of 12" (6x), yes, 13 bags is probably about right to cover 72x24.

So at 2 bags per 1 foot of 24" tank, going out to 96" should take 4 more bags... but if you're planning lots of hills, you'll likely need more than that, depending on how much understructure/padding you have for the "hills" (cheaper, and less weight, to build some sort of understructure than layering a bunch of bags of gravel at ~$18 each).


----------



## Absolut Talent

kman said:


> I used 2 bags in my 17 gal, approx 24x12.


how deep was that?
I am shooting for 1 3/4"-2" depth in my tank (13x48) and trying to see if I can get by with 3 bags or if I need the 4th


----------



## kman

Absolut Talent said:


> how deep was that?
> I am shooting for 1 3/4"-2" depth in my tank (13x48) and trying to see if I can get by with 3 bags or if I need the 4th


See post 174, above, or my tank journal (link in sig below). I think I have about 3" along the back and right side, sloping to about 2" in the front right.


----------



## Absolut Talent

k. I guess 4 bags it is for me. If I have extra, maybe use it in an extra 2.5 shrimp tank or something


----------



## NanoDave

FishStix said:


> It all NanoDave fault :smile:, you would think they would give him a % of the sales. ha ha I orderd one bag of black should be here Tuesday. I hope I can get the other 19 bags I will need by the time my tank ready in July. ha


All of you need to tell them when you place your order so I can get some free bags! I'm setting up a rack system this week and can't find it out by me yet from the last time I bought all the places out! Post pics on how all your tanks are doing and your experiences with it. I like hearing how things turn out and what works/ doesn't.


----------



## spirgeyooh

Does anyone have the Activ Flora Lake Gems? I've been considering it as an alternative to the black substrate that has been selling out so quickly, but wondered if anyone has experience with it or some possible pictures to share.


----------



## msebar

my 13 bags came in today woohoo


----------



## FishStix

msebar said:


> my 13 bags came in today woohoo


I got my 1 bag of it today, I really like it, looks great. I cannot wait to order more when it comes back in stock.


----------



## msebar

Small bags I think I might be short. Can I use something on the bottom layer? Maybe black sand?


----------



## peachii

msebar said:


> Small bags I think I might be short. Can I use something on the bottom layer? Maybe black sand?


You can absolutely layer the bottom with something fine grain and it will stay on the bottom. Some kind of sand or Black Diamond if you wanted a cheaper option esp since the ActivFlora is so black, the black diamond wouldn't look off underneath if any got pulled to the top.


----------



## Shremph

I received my substrate today. I was still on the fence with whether or not two bags would be adequate for my 20 Long, and to my delight it is perfect for my needs as I only plan on having foreground and moss in this shrimp tank. I didn't have to dip into the substrate bags I purchased for my 40B which is great.

Just some pictures. Substrate slopes slightly from left to right. 2.5" to 2.1" in depth. I don't plan on filling the tank for a while as I want to shred some fissidens and dry start some drift wood and lava rock. I will update on thoughts when I get around to doing it. 

Substrate is jet black, and I love the look. Prettiest plant substrate I've seen to date.

Setup includes a few ounces of laterite on the bottom layer, osmocote plus, flourish tabs for some of the nutrients lacking in the new osmocote, and BW Bebi through the substrate which is why the top layer has a brown sprinkling.

Plants:
Fissidens on rocks and wood
Java moss on cholla wood
christmas moss on pebbles
S Repens
Downoi
Blyxa Jap




























Moving what I received from another member on these forums from my grow-out pictured here:

Downoi:









S. Reps & Blyxa:


----------



## NanoDave

Nice, Can't wait to see it grow!


----------



## Shremph

Worked on the tank a bit more with recommendations from other forum members. The substrate is easy to shape and make hills. Now that I've added more hardscape, i'm above 3 inches in some spots.

Some pictures of dry start progress. All hardscape on the right side is covered in ground fissidens.


----------



## fablau

Looks really good!


----------



## Shremph

Another update.

Still loving the substrate. Best I've used so far, but time will tell.

Needed to remove Blyxa from the grow out tank since it was taking over so I moved up my time frame for filling the Activ-flora tank. Luckily the Fissidens took to the dry start fairly well and about 60% had stuck to the rocks and wood.

This is a few minutes after filling the tank. Almost no cloudiness.


----------



## Hornet136

If anyone is still looking for Activ-flora I found it on DreamAquatic for $15.15 a bag. Shipping was only around $11 to IL.


----------



## fablau

Good to know, thank you Hornet!


----------



## RAGEo2

Just FYI, Thatpetplace is getting a shipment next week according to the rep for World wide imports.



BTW, Shremph that looks amazing! The black substrate really makes the green POP!!!!


----------



## bsantucci

Hornet136 said:


> If anyone is still looking for Activ-flora I found it on DreamAquatic for $15.15 a bag. Shipping was only around $11 to IL.


Thanks for this post. Count me in on a converter about to try Activ-Flora. Just picked up 4 bags from DreamAquatic for a new Mr. Aqua 48g build I'll be doing as soon as the tank arrives. 

I'm doing a quasi-Iwagumi/dutch tank and I'm curious how well this will speed up the carpeting of the tank.


----------



## FishStix

Has anyone confirmed the free shipping is only if it less than 150 lbs? Just wanted to confirm?


----------



## peachii

FishStix said:


> Has anyone confirmed the free shipping is only if it less than 150 lbs? Just wanted to confirm?


If it's over 150 pounds just place 2 orders, that is what tahtpetplace customer service said to do. That way you get free shipping.


----------



## FishStix

peachii said:


> If it's over 150 pounds just place 2 orders, that is what tahtpetplace customer service said to do. That way you get free shipping.


Thanks


----------



## msebar

I can confirm that because that's what I did good luck


----------



## Guzas

My first post here.. And I'm looking to re-do my current aquarium to a planted tank. And of course I have 3 bags of eco-complete already bought. However I stumbled upon this thread and guess what? I just ordered 5 bags from "that pet place". Now that I have burned a hole in my pocket I figured this would be a great time to say... thanks! And say HI. I'm a sucker for good reviews.

Looking forward to posting my step by step progress. This is so new for me and I am very excited..


----------



## msebar

Good luck post your results


----------



## msebar

got mine at that fish place


----------



## bsantucci

msebar said:


> got mine at that fish place


Yeah they are out of stock right now unfortunately and I need it for a tank build next week. May have to stick with Eco-Complete this time around.


----------



## DefStatic

Wow, people are jumping on this bandwagon LOL.

Other than the color, what is the difference between ActiveFlora and say some other brand with a layer of laterite and root tabs first? Is this just about the color and size? 

it's funny, I have seen that Fantasy Bowl site before but stayed away because can't get it local and it advertises it simply as decorative.


----------



## kman

DefStatic said:


> Wow, people are jumping on this bandwagon LOL.
> 
> Other than the color, what is the difference between ActiveFlora and say some other brand with a layer of laterite and root tabs first? Is this just about the color and size?
> 
> it's funny, I have seen that Fantasy Bowl site before but stayed away because can't get it local and it advertises it simply as decorative.


In the end, they're all just rocks. The main differences to me is color, consistency, and weight.

The color of the black Activ-Flora is simply fantastic. Of course, you can also get great deep black with a good black sand, but the AF gives a different look. Sand is a PITA is some ways (although great in others). I prefer AF.

Consistency is fairly unique to AF, compared to anything else I've personally seen. Much smaller particles than Eco Complete or actual "gravel" of the more common variety... but not so small as sand, or even the large grain sands.

Weight is good. Despite the small particle size, the particles are much heavier than Eco Complete and others.

Weight and consistency combine to determine how easy it is to plant in. AF strikes an excellent balance, IMO, between too fine and too large, and it's not too light (like Eco), all of which helps make it great for planting in.


----------



## bsantucci

How would you compare it in consistency to eco complete fine grade? That's what I use now and I think from pictures it looks very similar. 

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk


----------



## kman

bsantucci said:


> How would you compare it in consistency to eco complete fine grade? That's what I use now and I think from pictures it looks very similar.


I actually haven't seen fine grade Eco yet, in person. If it's just like normal Eco but smaller particles (my suspicion), I would think the weight issue would be worse, if anything.

If it's heavier than normal Eco, then it's probably comparable. Except perhaps from a color standpoint. (although again, I have yet to see fine grade Eco in person)


----------



## bsantucci

kman said:


> I actually haven't seen fine grade Eco yet, in person. If it's just like normal Eco but smaller particles (my suspicion), I would think the weight issue would be worse, if anything.
> 
> If it's heavier than normal Eco, then it's probably comparable. Except perhaps from a color standpoint. (although again, I have yet to see fine grade Eco in person)


Cool thanks. It is just smaller much like sand but with some larger reddish pieces mixed in. I haven't had any weight issues all my plants stay in. I hoped to try activ flora this time but with it sold out everywhere I guess next time I'll try. 

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk


----------



## Catf1sh

What I wanna see is a battle of Miracle Gro OGPM vs Activ Flora black. Now I know the dirt would probably whoop Activ's a$$, but still I'd wanna see how it fares against the dirt giant. Oh, and a sand or gravel substrate as a control, if anyone has the stuff to do this please make it happen .

I just have the one 180litre tank heavily planted and already setup, it's gone through three different substrates over the years. Now running JBL Aquabasis plus with Manado as a cap, but after reading this thread I WANT Activ Flora!! Just don't know where to start looking for it :-/.


----------



## dru

Catf1sh said:


> What I wanna see is a battle of Miracle Gro OGPM vs Activ Flora black..


Apples to oranges


----------



## NanoDave

dru said:


> Apples to oranges


I agree, you can't compare the two as they are completely different things. No doubt dirt will grow better than any inert substrate. Personally I would never use dirt for the simple fact that you can't rescape or pull plants without potential hazards. I saw/heard first hand of a friends gorgeous show tank's cap getting broken and lost everything within a day and for that simple fact I stick to inert substrates with root tabs. I personally feel Activ-Flora is as good as it gets for an inert substrate. It's the no fuss, no mess, no decomposing, easy to plant, heavy weight, all around great substrate I've always wanted. It's to me become a fail safe substrate that I know I will have amazing success with everytime with great ease.


----------



## gryz

Anybody know if there is a grain size difference between the Black or Red Floracor versus the light colored Floralite?

The Floralite seems smaller from the picture but can't be sure.


----------



## DefStatic

I will stick with FloraMax. I went with it because I felt it was blacker than EcoComplete and jsut as good.

I would give ActivFlora a chance if I could find it locally. I almost want to say a small true LFS here might have ActivFlora, if they do, I will let people know so maybe he can ship some out, since it seems to be hard to find.


----------



## RAGEo2

*Tic Toc...*

I'm with FishStix, this is becoming ridiculous. I place an order using Paypal and that was canceled days later. Did it again and same outcome. I called and they told me that Paypal will automatically cancel the purchase if the item has not shipped in 6 days. So I placed an order over the phone using my CC. So it has been WEEKS waiting.

On the bright side, I look at it as gaining self control for when I start a Dry start method. I want to hold out for at least 6 weeks before flooding. I'm hoping for a nice HC carpet.


----------



## bsantucci

My order with dreamaquatic.com I had the bank do a reverse payment on since the place is clear fraud. Interestingly enough the day I did that I receive two shipment notifications. One never ended up showing up with UPS, but the other did. The strange thing is that I ordered 4 bags, so 64 pounds. This shipment shows 15 pounds and said 2 bags which doesn't add up math-wise at 16 pounds a bag, that's not even 1.

Today the package was delivered, so I'm extremely curious what they sent me haha. I'm guessing 15 pounds of sh*t due to me reporting them. haha.

**Update** 

So I received the mystery package which was actually 2 bags of Activ-Flora!! They did not put in the right weight on the UPS tag. My order was for 4 bags with $11 in shipping, they charged me for 2 bags with $40 in shipping which is insane. I have an open dispute with my bank and open dialog now with the vendor as a result (if you can call broken english and brief emails open). I hope to get them to ship me the final two bags.

So this place does have stock, but I wouldn't advise ordering from them. If you want to gamble though then go for it.


----------



## drondy

Has anyone done the Miracle Grow base with the AF cap? Would there be any issues with this?


----------



## FishStix

Do you guys think 17 bags is enough for 180 72x24x24, I am assuming it more than enough, but thought I would ask.


----------



## NanoDave

Just thought I'd give you guys a little update and let you know the substrate it still holding very strong after 2+years. I've only root tabbed twice in the time I've been using and have never gravel vac'd it, rarely water change it, and it is my most stable tank by far, which I find odd but awesome. This tank has evolved a lot and has become my main show tank and I owe a lot of it to ActivFlora I feel. I know it's been hard to get but if you can get it or hold out I personally feel it's worth the wait.


----------



## FishStix

NanoDave said:


> Just thought I'd give you guys a little update and let you know the substrate it still holding very strong after 2+years. I've only root tabbed twice in the time I've been using and have never gravel vac'd it, rarely water change it, and it is my most stable tank by far, which I find odd but awesome. This tank has evolved a lot and has become my main show tank and I owe a lot of it to ActivFlora I feel. I know it's been hard to get but if you can get it or hold out I personally feel it's worth the wait.


 Wow, your tank looks great. My order finally shipped 16 bags :icon_surp. Plus the sample bag I bought a few months ago to make sure I liked ActivFlora. Cannot wait to get it. Now if my stand, sump and lights would be ready :icon_sad:

Do you think 16 bags is enough for 180 gallon 72x24x24?

Thanks


----------



## NanoDave

FishStix said:


> Wow, your tank looks great. My order finally shipped 16 bags :icon_surp. Plus the sample bag I bought a few months ago to make sure I liked ActivFlora. Cannot wait to get it. Now if my stand, sump and lights would be ready :icon_sad:
> 
> Do you think 16 bags is enough for 180 gallon 72x24x24?
> 
> Thanks


That sounds about right and should be enough. I just did a 72L x 16W tank with 200lbs so 360lbs should be enough to cover that with slopes I would imagine.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Reminder: vendor reviews aren't permitted.


----------



## NanoDave

somewhatshocked said:


> Reminder: vendor reviews aren't permitted.


Why aren't vendor reviews permited? How can we spread our experiences and pass on what we find works/doesn't to better the hobby without doing reviews?


----------



## freph

NanoDave said:


> Why aren't vendor reviews permited? How can we spread our experiences and pass on what we find works/doesn't to better the hobby without doing reviews?


You can review individual items but not vendors themselves. Legal reasons. If you're interested, there's plenty to be found about the topic using the search feature.


----------



## Shremph

Multiple reasons. The one that matters most is the fact this site is owned for profit and the benefactors wish it.


----------



## NanoDave

freph said:


> You can review individual items but not vendors themselves. Legal reasons. If you're interested, there's plenty to be found about the topic using the search feature.


Oh ok so saying Substrate XYZ is a great product and I would buy again is ok; but saying Vendor XYZ has delayed shipping and bad customer service isn't?

Just making sure that I'm following forum etiquette.


----------



## freph

NanoDave said:


> Oh ok so saying Substrate XYZ is a great product and I would buy again is ok; but saying Vendor XYZ has delayed shipping and bad customer service isn't?
> 
> Just making sure that I'm following forum etiquette.


Correct. When in doubt, PMing a mod to check is a good idea. It's also a good idea to keep your product reviews to pros/cons/meaningful feedback instead of bashing (not accusing you of this, just mentioning it as I've seen product x is crap many a time).


----------



## NanoDave

freph said:


> Correct. When in doubt, PMing a mod to check is a good idea. It's also a good idea to keep your product reviews to pros/cons/meaningful feedback instead of bashing (not accusing you of this, just mentioning it as I've seen product x is crap many a time).


Good to know, thanks!


----------



## bsantucci

freph said:


> Correct. When in doubt, PMing a mod to check is a good idea. It's also a good idea to keep your product reviews to pros/cons/meaningful feedback instead of bashing (not accusing you of this, just mentioning it as I've seen product x is crap many a time).


Good to know as well. I assume all the mod comments were directed at my mentioning of my purchase experience. I wasn't aware this wasn't ok, was just trying to keep others from having my problem. I'll refrain in the future.


----------



## somewhatshocked

You can absolutely review products. And should. Just as long as you're fair and try to be as objective as possible.

Also fair to say you hate X product. But most people reading, myself included, would prefer to know why you hate it.


----------



## Shremph

Planting small Glosso was easy with this substrate. 
Every other experience I've had planting Glosso was more frustrating. 

Blyxxa Jap has started turning the most red I have ever had it on all new shoots.

S Reps. growth and propagation has been insane.


----------



## FishStix

I don't know why, but for some reason, I feel like 16 bags won't be enough. Excuse the bad picture, but I need to put it somewhere if any of the bags leaked they would not get on the hardwood floor.


----------



## FishStix

Everything was packed great, though I don't think the un-named delivery person was happy to bring all those boxes to my door. ha


----------



## kman

FishStix said:


> I don't know why, but for some reason, I feel like 16 bags won't be enough. Excuse the bad picture, but I need to put it somewhere if any of the bags leaked they would not get on the hardwood floor.


FWIW, those bags are REALLY tough. I'd be surprised if they leak, since they've made it this far without issue. I'm sure it's possible (especially if you drop one on something sharp) but I haven't seen or heard a single report about leaky/dry bags of any of the wet substrates. So I wouldn't worry about that too much.


----------



## FishStix

kman said:


> FWIW, those bags are REALLY tough. I'd be surprised if they leak, since they've made it this far without issue. I'm sure it's possible (especially if you drop one on something sharp) but I haven't seen or heard a single report about leaky/dry bags of any of the wet substrates. So I wouldn't worry about that too much.


I agree with you as well, I don't think the bags would leak, was just saying it was better for me to put the bags in the tank than the risk of them leaking and deal with the wrath of my wife having water all over the hardwood floor in the room I am doing all the tank prep work :hihi:


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## randpost

Activ-Flora 20g Long tank update. 

Everything still growing well after 30 days.

Before:









After:


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## randpost

Another update and probably my last. I officially love this substrate.

I have been taking shots of my Glosso daily to document growth in this substrate with Dry ferts, High Co2 and High Lighting. 

First shot was taken 5/5/14 and second shot was taken 5/16/14. So about 10 days. I upgraded my phone during this period so the camera quality changed between pictures 

You can also see the Blyxa Jap growth was decent also.



















I also raised my light 6" on 5/10/14 to halt the algae on the rocks.


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## Absolut Talent

im still waiting for thatpetplace to get it back in stock. Im ready to order my 4 bags but theyve been out for awhile again 

I am seriously debating on going with the floracor Red instead of theblack, but I really would prefer the black


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## westerlies

yeah I'm waiting too. I can't decide if I want to just buy it elsewhere for more or get the red. I'm impatient lol


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## dru

nice randpost!


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## T Jager

Loving the activ flora


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## EChord

This is an awesome thread. For some reason, though, I only found this thread after I had decided to get Activ Flora and was just waiting on more to arrive so I could order it. The only comments I was able to find before were negative and from quite a few years ago. I guess it's just the super secret we-have-to-kill-you-if-we-tell-you-about-it substrate. lol

Glad to see such a lengthy discussion - it confirms the choice for me.


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## nikonD70s

anyone have pics of the lake gem ones in a tank? looking to get those instead of the black but cant find pics of the lake gem ones in a tank.


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## chan011

Hornet136 said:


> If anyone is still looking for Activ-flora I found it on DreamAquatic for $15.15 a bag. Shipping was only around $11 to IL.


$20.15 a bag now...


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## astex

Lake Gems on the right, the Floracor Red on the left










Lake Gems on left, Flora Gems center, Floracor red on right










Neither of the pictures really shows them accurately as to how it looks in the tank, but if you want a mid-dark substrate the Lake Gems are nice. They look like what I'd imagine a stream bed would, darker pebbles with some grey, brown, and light grey mixed in.

I'm seriously considering it for my 180. I like the flora gems, but think it's a bit too light for the look I'm going for.




nikonD70s said:


> anyone have pics of the lake gem ones in a tank? looking to get those instead of the black but cant find pics of the lake gem ones in a tank.


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## Kehy

astex said:


>


Fish butts!


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## god91234

this stuff looks great. i always hated the color differences in ECO complete. 

also every one, i just need ONE bag stop buying every store out of this stuff!!


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## Mr.Betta

What kind of rock is the black active flora? It doesn't appear to be crushed lava rock like eco complete.


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## Juliek

Just letting anyone know who is looking for activ flora......my ordered just shipped from thatfishplace today! $18.39 a bag and free shipping over $89.


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## Absolut Talent

thanks for the heads up. Got my 4 bags ordered

Now I just gotta get my new filter and tank ordered and Im set


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## bassistjon112

Does this stuff have little iron bits in it? Wondering if any thing will get stuck to a magnet cleaner.


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## kman

bassistjon112 said:


> Does this stuff have little iron bits in it? Wondering if any thing will get stuck to a magnet cleaner.


Activ-Flora? Never got any stuck to my magnet cleaner.


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## bassistjon112

I just got two bags of the black activflora for my 15g and hopefully Ill have enough left over for my 8g. I got MGOM(dirt) that's going under it as well.


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## god91234

this stuff really is great. thanks for put up the info on it.


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## bassistjon112

Activflora does have iron it and will get stuck to a magnet cleaner.


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## 180g

Kehy said:


> Fish butts!


LOLlol


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## EwDeg

How many bags would you think are necessary for 2.5" depth in a 40B(36"x18")? I'm thinking 4-5.


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## Seattle_Aquarist

Hi All,



> ActivFlora:
> ActivFlora™ Planted Aquarium Substrate is a Bio-Activ NUTRIENT-ENRICHED™ gravel specially developed and suited for planted aquaria. ActivFlora™ gravels are naturally abundant in trace elements that instantly provide a nutrient-rich environment in which your aquatic plants will thrive and achieve optimum health and growth.
> 
> Elemental Analysis (Units=mg/kg)
> 
> Aluminum ..................10210
> Magnesium .............. 2281
> Barium ..........................124
> Manganese .....................64
> Calcium..........................195
> Sodium.........................223
> Cobalt...............................6
> Nickel............................12
> Chromium........................13
> Vanadium.......................15
> Copper ............................17
> Zinc...............................29
> Iron.............................18500
> Potassium .................. 2195


I'm going to weigh in on this just because. First of all let me say that Active Flora may indeed provide good results, although I have never tried it myself. Why do I say that? Because I use Montmorillonite Clay products that have basically the same composition; let's compare ActivFlora™ Planted Aquarium Substrate to Montmorillonite clay materials.

Nutrient..................ActiveFlora...............Montmorillonite clay
Aluminum ..................10210.....................10500
Magnesium .................2281.......................4130
Barium ........................124.........................119
Manganese ...................64...........................61.1
Calcium.......................195........................5310
Sodium.........................223........................353
Cobalt............................6............................3.5
Nickel............................12..........................14.8
Chromium.......................13............................39.5
Vanadium.......................15............................18.7
Copper .........................17..............................5.2
Zinc..............................29............................50.5
Iron.............................18500....................12600
Potassium .................. 2195........................3980

ActivFlora costs about $1 per pound, I purchase 40 pound bag of Safe-T-Sorb #7941 ( Montmorillionite clay) for $5 at Tractor Supply. Granted it doesn't have the black color but for the price it isn't bad.

10 gallon with ferts, no CO2


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## NanoDave

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> ActivFlora costs about $1 per pound, I purchase 40 pound bag of Safe-T-Sorb #7941 ( Montmorillionite clay) for $5 at Tractor Supply[/URL]. Granted it doesn't have the black color but for the price it isn't bad.



I have a friend who swears by this stuff as well and has great results. I'm just too picky about the color and grain size to use it persoanlly. Now if they could only make it in black!


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## Krispyplants

The Black bag has absolutely gotta be "Thee" best looking black substrate there is. Pure black with tiny glare. Blacker than eco and ADA. For this substrate, you can actually see the brown fish poop instead of having it blend in with eco. The magnetic field around this substrate is unbelievable. My long tweezers always get a few grains of this stuck to it while plucking and planting plants. Not to mention why I stopped using magnetic cleaners. Dwarf Baby Tears will easily root onto it because of the rice sized grade.


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## kman

^^ The Black bag? You mean this stuff, Activ-Flora? (in which case I agree!) Or something else?


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## Krispyplants

I believe its the activ flora black. When I first started my tank, I bought flourite, Ada, activ, and Eco which was all black. I loved the activ flora black and wanted to buy some more but thought it was flourite black. Felt real bad when I saw how brown the black was when I ordered another flourite black.


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## kman

Yeah. I haven't seen anything out there that I like as much as the real deal Activ-Flora black.  Maybe the Diamond Black Blasting sand, that can be really nice, too. And a lot cheaper! But sand is a different look from AF.


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## Krispyplants

kman said:


> Yeah. I haven't seen anything out there that I like as much as the real deal Activ-Flora black.  Maybe the Diamond Black Blasting sand, that can be really nice, too. And a lot cheaper! But sand is a different look from AF.


I think the black sand from AF is what I like. Never tried the other black one though. How black is it?


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## kman

Krispyplants said:


> I think the black sand from AF is what I like. Never tried the other black one though. How black is it?


The Activ-Flora Black is more of a fine gravel than a sand. The Diamond Black Blasting Sand is actual sand consistency. Quite black, based on the photos. Search the site, there are tons of tanks that use it, because it looks good and it's super cheap (like under $10 for a 50 lb bag, cheap!). Unfortunately, the main place that seems to sell it, Tractor Supply, has no stores anywhere reasonable near me, so I don't have any to compare first hand. One of these days if I set up a larger tank and need something cheaper (and more available) than AF, I might make an effort to track that stuff down and give it a shot, though.


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## DizzyD

Does the active flora break down over time like other substrates? I know one benefit of Eco complete is it doesn't break down.


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## kman

DizzyD said:


> Does the active flora break down over time like other substrates? I know one benefit of Eco complete is it doesn't break down.


Not in our lifetime. It's a solid substrate like Eco Complete, not a soil-based substrate.


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## Soxfandowd

I've been waiting for That Pet Place to have this in stock for months now. Ever since I read this thread I've wanted Activ Flora. I even emailed them and they replied that they are working to increase their inventory. But on a whim I stopped at a LFS that I had been meaning to go into but never did, and when talking to the owner he was able to order it for me! SCORE!!! 
Loved the experiment too!!!


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## rosenpetals

What I would like to know is if the claim "instant Cycle" is true, because reading some other reviews of the Activ-flora, it's not.


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## Patriot

They had this stuff in japan for cheap when I was over there. I did try it and loved it. Now I will try to find it again.


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## Soxfandowd

rosenpetals said:


> What I would like to know is if the claim "instant Cycle" is true, because reading some other reviews of the Activ-flora, it's not.


I put this in a 40B and a 10G this spring. i do love this substrate! as far as an instant cycle I don't think so. I'm sure the bacteria in it helps though. I was able to cycle quickly using it, some filter media and Safe Start in my 10G. With my 40B I set up in stages with lots of plants and a new canister filter but it was quick with the help of the Safe Start too.


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## jboone82590

I have eco complete I'm my 75 and I am having trouble keeping a few of my plants down like my carpet mini sword and a few of my bigger plants but it works good as far as I can tell for the plants I have now they are all growing great but I'm thinking about bout redoing one of my 29s and might go with the active flora to see how it does thanks for the info 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk


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## bsantucci

This isn't any different to be honest than any other of the inert substrates. I have this mixed with Eco-complete right now. The only difference is aesthetic in my opinion. It's much more uniform in size and completely black, unlike Eco which has more of a gray look with random other colors mixed in.

This doesn't grow plants any better than any other. I wouldn't go out of your way to source it.


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## Patriot

bsantucci said:


> This isn't any different to be honest than any other of the inert substrates. I have this mixed with Eco-complete right now. The only difference is aesthetic in my opinion. It's much more uniform in size and completely black, unlike Eco which has more of a gray look with random other colors mixed in.
> 
> This doesn't grow plants any better than any other. I wouldn't go out of your way to source it.


The fact that's it's completely black, and more uniform is enough reasons for most people here.


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## bsantucci

Patriot said:


> The fact that's it's completely black, and more uniform is enough reasons for most people here.


Eh, if that's enough reason then by all means. I don't feel it's enough reason to overpay or wait months to find stock though.


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## Soxfandowd

bsantucci said:


> This isn't any different to be honest than any other of the inert substrates. I have this mixed with Eco-complete right now. The only difference is aesthetic in my opinion. It's much more uniform in size and completely black, unlike Eco which has more of a gray look with random other colors mixed in.
> 
> This doesn't grow plants any better than any other. I wouldn't go out of your way to source it.


Those are two important aspects though. That quest for the uniform substrate in a true color has been going on forever. I like it better than Eco Complete as I find it holds the plants better and unlike sand it does not cloud up if you inadvertently disturb it by moving plants, rearranging hardscapes, or get too aggressive with the vacuum.


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## FishStix

I have wanted to order more of the Activ-Flora black for several months now, and no one seems to have it, well those that do it very expensive. I called That Pet Place last week, and they no longer stock it. That why I have asked in another post about another type which is black.


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## Patriot

I don't understand why the company that makes it isn't producing more of it. They have time setting up a website for it, buy no one can find it anywhere.


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## RWaters

I looked at the company's website. The substrate doesn't look uniform in color or size. Not as bad as EcoComplete, but not what I was expecting from the rave reviews either.


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## Soxfandowd

RWaters said:


> I looked at the company's website. The substrate doesn't look uniform in color or size. Not as bad as EcoComplete, but not what I was expecting from the rave reviews either.


I have Activ-Flora Black in two tanks. It is absolutely uniform and black. I never found it on the web site either but I was able to find a LFS about an hour from me that could order it for me. I have since gotten it twice through them without any issue. I would try to see if a store near you can order it or get a vendor list from the web site.


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## Malteras

Hi everyone.

I'm new to this forum, so sorry if I post this in the wrong place. 
I'm also new to aquariums and I wanted to reactivate one that my family had almost twenty years ago. I intend to make planted fish tank and therefore need information about soil that should be used. Since I live in Bosnia and it's very hard to find most of the soil and substrates that are recommended (and ebay won't deliver them to this country), I'm stick to what pet stores here have to offer. So, I need to know about your experience with JBL Sansibar sand products. Would you recommend it or should I look elsewhere? What plants suit best to this kind of sand? http://www.jbl.de/en/aquatics-freshwater-products/detail/6117/jbl-sansibar-red


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## Patriot

I just ordered six bags of this stuff from my LFS. She said that the people that make it has it in stock so order now if your still looking for it.


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## blickquickly

I didnt go through all 20 pages of this TBH. Did anyone ask how this holds up against ADA Aquasoil Amazonia?


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## bsantucci

blickquickly said:


> I didnt go through all 20 pages of this TBH. Did anyone ask how this holds up against ADA Aquasoil Amazonia?


This will not break down like ADA will.


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## blickquickly

Does that mean its....better...than AS? The price difference and first few pages of hype is making me question whether or not I should get ADA.


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## bsantucci

AS would be better. This does not have any nutrients in it.


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## Patriot

bsantucci said:


> AS would be better. This does not have any nutrients in it.


According to the website that makes it your wrong. It does have something in it. I believe any soil that doesn't decay over time would be better. You can add your own nutrients anyways.


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## bsantucci

Patriot said:


> According to the website that makes it your wrong. It does have something in it. I believe any soil that doesn't decay over time would be better. You can add your own nutrients anyways.


Eco complete says the same thing, that the product is nutrient rich. It really isn't though. The water they have it soaking in the bag in may have nutrients, but very little will transfer over when setting up your tank.


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## Patriot

bsantucci said:


> Eco complete says the same thing, that the product is nutrient rich. It really isn't though. The water they have it soaking in the bag in may have nutrients, but very little will transfer over when setting up your take.


Well that is true.


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## Patriot

I would still go with activflora over aquasoil base on looks, ability to hold down plants better, longevity. 

Must people would add root tabs anyways. I don't know if AF hold excess nutrients however.


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## blickquickly

I just spoke to 2 different local stores that are suppose to carry Activflora and one said they are in negotiations....lol. Whatever that means....and the other said their distributor "doesnt keep it in stock". I have one more place to try but their closed right now. Tomorrow I'll call them and see if they can hook a bro up. If not, I may have to resort to the internet for my substrate. I dont want to use eco-complete if its a stinky thing to work with.


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## ichy

How about dirt and then any cheap cap you want?


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## blickquickly

Not for me. I know if I use dirt it will somehow end up above the cap. lol. 

....Aaaaand the last place I called not only sounded disinterested and uninformed, but they managed to hang up on me and tell me they couldnt and wouldnt order ActivFlora for me even though they carry Pure Water Pebbles made by the exact same company. Pet Supermarket in Tallahassee, FL. Stay away from them. They also tried to sell me Purple Waffle as a fully aquatic plant once.


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## Entz

Soxfandowd said:


> I have Activ-Flora Black in two tanks. It is absolutely uniform and black. I never found it on the web site either but I was able to find a LFS about an hour from me that could order it for me. I have since gotten it twice through them without any issue. I would try to see if a store near you can order it or get a vendor list from the web site.


Worth noting that the black is the only one that is small and uniform. Like large grains of sand (nothing like is pictures on the site). Most if not all of the other colors are not. For example I have the Floracor Red in my split Betta tank and it is very large, more like normal aquarium gravel (1/4" Shale even). Same with lake gems.

I am a big fan of the black and have used it in all my tanks. Mainly because my LFS always keeps it in stock. Easy to work with. Haven't compared it to AS though.


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## dru

I have 3 bags of black that I will probably never use but I don't want to ship it 

If anyone is in north texas give me a shout


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## ahem

My eco-complete arrived looking more like the ActiveFlora.


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## Aceman

Is there anywhere to get active flora in Canada ?


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## dougomac

Aceman said:


> Is there anywhere to get active flora in Canada ?


Emailed the company the other day. This is the response I got. I did not call yet

Hello Doug,
Thank you for contacting us, Please call our distributor in your area and ask them for assistance in locating the Activ Flora product.
Burgham Sales in Scarborough, Ont. PH: 416-293-8080

Kindest Regards, 

WORLD WIDE IMPORTS ENT., INC.
5315 NW 10TH TERRACE
FT. LAUDERDALE, FL. 33309
PH:954-492-8196, 800-423-6442
FAX:954-492-8213

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk


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## Entz

Aceman said:


> Is there anywhere to get active flora in Canada ?


My LFS keeps it in stock (Kelowna), not sure where he gets it from though.


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## dougomac

Entz said:


> My LFS keeps it in stock (Kelowna), not sure where he gets it from though.


I contacted the supplier in Ontario but did not see it on their list. How much do they sell it for. I wonder is they would ship it out east if I can't find. I really like what I see about the product. Especially the look?

If not it may be ADA for me

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk


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## Entz

33$ IIRC. Doubt they would ship it though.


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## blickquickly

I have found Activ Flora Black on the internet at a couple places now, but does anyone know where I can find it for less than the $40+ per bag and $25-$30 for shipping? At that price I may as well buy ADA AS.



EDIT: After some deeper digging ive found it for roughly $25 a bag.


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## Patriot

blickquickly said:


> I have found Activ Flora Black on the internet at a couple places now, but does anyone know where I can find it for less than the $40+ per bag and $25-$30 for shipping? At that price I may as well buy ADA AS.
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: After some deeper digging ive found it for roughly $25 a bag.


Where did you find it that low? 

I wish it had more material in the bags. Seems like the water makes up most of the weight.


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## Hunter73

So do you guys that have had the Activ-Flora Floracor Black still happy with it? I'm thinking that it sounds good.


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## Patriot

Did anyone else get patches of white fungus after setting up the substrate?


----------



## Hunter73

Patriot said:


> Did anyone else get patches of white fungus after setting up the substrate?


Nobody? I would like to know the answer to this question too.


----------



## Entz

Never that the problem with mine.


----------



## Soxfandowd

Hunter73 said:


> So do you guys that have had the Activ-Flora Floracor Black still happy with it? I'm thinking that it sounds good.


I am still happy with it. Mine has been set up for about 8 months. No fading of color, plants doing really well. It is also easy to rescape with as you don't create a cloud when pulling the plants up. 



Patriot said:


> Did anyone else get patches of white fungus after setting up the substrate?


I did get this at first too. I wasn't sure what it was or if it was caused by root tabs or too much light. It was easy to vac up by just sweeping the vac over it. It went away quickly and has never returned. I did not rinse it before I placed it in my tank so maybe it has to do with the "nutrients" in the liquid?


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## Patriot

It's spreading fast.


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## Soxfandowd

Mine wasn't quite so fluffy? It was more like someone spray painted a large spot on the substrate. You should be able to vac that up easily. Turn down your lights some or reduce the photo period. I think it is all part of the breaking in period. We all go through weirdness outbreaks as our tanks are stabilizing.


----------



## Hunter73

Patriot said:


> It's spreading fast.


How long has your Activ-Flora Floracor been in your tank?


----------



## Patriot

Three days


----------



## Hunter73

Patriot said:


> Three days


Thanks for the fast response. Keep us updated on this condition please. I'm still trying to find enough of this in stock so I can order some.


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## latchdan

amazon has 3 bags right now if anyone wanted to get them, found it locally so I'm not buying them.


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## Hunter73

Patriot said:


> It's spreading fast.


How's it doing now?


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## Patriot

Hunter73 said:


> How's it doing now?


The white stuff died back actually.


----------



## Hunter73

Well, I finally got some bags of the black. Gonna get some inside a couple of Fluval Spec V's tonight. I'm excited to use this and see what kind of results I get.


----------



## Hunter73

Well ten days ago I put one 16 lb bag in each of my Spec V's. So far it all looks pretty good. A few plants are melting, but they came from my high tech tank and now are in these low tech tanks. I'll give them a chance to try and recoup. Anyway, I really like the look of this substrate. I have a couple of crappy iPhone pics. I will take some better pics later, but right now this couch feels comfortable.


----------



## Hunter73

Hunter73 said:


> Well ten days ago I put one 16 lb bag in each of my Spec V's. So far it all looks pretty good. A few plants are melting, but they came from my high tech tank and now are in these low tech tanks. I'll give them a chance to try and recoup. Anyway, I really like the look of this substrate. I have a couple of crappy iPhone pics. I will take some better pics later, but right now this couch feels comfortable.


I've had to pull a few plants and toss, but for the most part with the factory low light I'm impressed.


----------



## mark546

I bought a ton of the stuff on clearance too. I can't say I've had the same experience. I will buy either depending on which is cheaper at the time. I have also used it as a cap on soil. After a couple of months the growth rate was huge on a low tech nano. As for the 55 I just pop osmocote tabs under it now and again.


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## kevmo911

Amazon.com : Worldwide Imports AWW81211 Flora Core, Black, 16-Pound : Aquarium Decor Gravel : Pet Supplies

$22.05 with free Prime shipping for 16lb bag if anybody's interested.

I have to run, but I wanted to make a comment even though I still have a few pages to read ...I haven't seen mentioned any concern over how uniform it is? I mean, is it just because it's all the same exact rock (seems unlikely), or is there a resin coating? If so, it seems like it would eliminate the already unlikely possibility that it will slough off mineral nutrients. Regardless of that, I'm still doubtful that it's got a CEC of anything higher than zero. It's not volcanic, and it's not clay.

That said, it does look really nice. If I had any plans for a nano, I'd probably buy a couple bags. But I decided a good while back that I've blown more than enough cash on Flourite over the years and any new substrate would be of repurposed stuff. Turface, because I've always liked the look of regular Flourite, and blasting sand, because I also like the look of the Flourite Black Sand that's capping dirt in a couple tanks.

Anyway, 20 bags at the Amazon link. Good luck!


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## MichaelMcG

Yup, I just picked up the last 3 bags Amazon had in stock. $22 dollars a bag and free shipping with my Amazon Prime, can't beat that!

Now it is time to redo my tank. I am removing a dirt/sand cap substrate.. Hope that is not too much of a headache


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## Melika

I decided to go with this substrate for my first planted tank because of this thread. So far I like it. I haven't gotten all my plants yet but the melting crypts I threw in there stopped melting altogether and started growing immediately, throwing out new shoots (trimmed away all the melted leaves of course) and the dormant red tiger lily also began to grow.

If I move plants around, there is no cloud at all. The substrate is fine enough to hold the plants firmly so my corys and rams haven't been able to dislodge any of the new stems of hygro. 

AND it's PRETTY.


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## Hilde

James M said:


> "Holy Grail" = dirt


I disagree. ADA's Aqua Soil - Amazonia is the best substrate but pricey.


----------

