# Recommendation for upgrading to Dual Stage CO2 regulator



## rfassbi2 (Mar 5, 2018)

I already have the bubble counter, solenoid, and check valve, but I want to replace my current single stage regulator that I purchased for brewing with something a bit more robust since I've had EOTD before. 

I guess I'm just looking for suggestions on a cost effective dual stage and then the required adapters. I live in Chicago so I'm guessing once I get the regulator I could go to any welding/plumbing store and they might have the adapters or could order for me. I'm just nervous about buying a regulator and then I can't get it to hook up to my tank and line....

Thoughts?

Currently looking at these:

SMI35-50-580
https://www.bakersgas.com/SMI35-50-..._OGokvEZbvSxi3-KnGRwRMOW2reXGo1BoCj7MQAvD_BwE

SMI40-275-580
https://www.bakersgas.com/SMI40-275-580.html

I saw someone here suggest this used on [Ebay Link Removed] sure what adapters to get for that either though.
Airgas Y12-244D


Something sub $200 would be fine I guess.


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

That $220 one is a good deal for a brand new unit.

The airgas one just needs a cga 320 bolt and nut and for the post body kit it needs a 1/4 to 1/8". I have almost the same exact regulator on my daugher's tank Y12-215D that I got for cheap.


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## rfassbi2 (Mar 5, 2018)

thanks, I'm just now discovering that you can take those bolts off. I guess I would just have to dope a new one on there. My roommate does some gas plumbing so I'm sure we can figure it out. Might need some vice grips.

Found a welding shop near my place I might go talk to in a bit. I doubt they'd have anything used, but would be worth giving them a call.


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## mgeorges (Feb 1, 2017)

You could get a pH controller instead...be cheaper. The pH controller will turn on and off your solenoid as needed to keep your pH at a constant, will prevent the EOTD. Just a thought, maybe save ya some money. Here's one I know several people around here use - https://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-716690-pH-Controller/dp/B00I47XIX2


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## rfassbi2 (Mar 5, 2018)

Good idea! I'll look into that for sure.


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

Before getting down to final, there are some things to consider. One is that shops are often pretty slow to talk about changing the nipple and nut to go from one gas to another. Safety and regs come into play at times. Don't want to get involved with questions about feeding Grandma CO2 instead of O2, maybe?? Anyway be ready for pushback if asking about changing. Sometimes far better to just ask for a new CGA 320 nipple and nut without mention the change in gas part! 
Also, there will likely need to be more than vise grips involved on many changes. Some work easy enough but there are those which seem to be almost welded! A vise to hold and a nice long pipe wrench at times. 
I suggest looking at "new/old stock" to avoid regs that may have been abused. I've worked in places where we do abuse them and would not want to buy into one of our rejects. 
What you need is time, patience, and a bit of luck???


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## rfassbi2 (Mar 5, 2018)

Looks like people like these guys
Victor CO2 Regulator Two Stage VTS253A ($125 listed, I just put in an offer)
[Ebay Link Removed]


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

rfassbi2 said:


> Looks like people like these guys
> Victor CO2 Regulator Two Stage VTS253A ($125 listed, I just put in an offer)
> [Ebay Link Removed]


"A" doesn't work.. 15psi max I believe..


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Yeah I’d take that offer back if you can. 

Item# 332570145770 on eBay is a good deal. Brand new Airgas Y12-244D in the box for $125 or best offer.


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## rfassbi2 (Mar 5, 2018)

Dang! I just messaged them to try and cancel. Wish I saw these messaged a couple hrs ago.


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## rfassbi2 (Mar 5, 2018)

Just checked my current regulator and 30psi is way too much co2 for my 25gal anyways. I think I'll be good with this. If not, everything is a lesson!


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

rfassbi2 said:


> Just checked my current regulator and 30psi is way too much co2 for my 25gal anyways. I think I'll be good with this. If not, everything is a lesson!


What are you using to diffuse the Co2? If the regulator your getting has a 15psi max, it’s really only good to run in conjunction with a reactor.


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## rfassbi2 (Mar 5, 2018)

Ahhh, sorry. Had some whiskey. Photo shows 30 psi in the eBay listing. Figured it should get that high. I'm using a ceramic diffuser and at 25 psi


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

rfassbi2 said:


> Ahhh, sorry. Had some whiskey. Photo shows 30 psi in the eBay listing. Figured it should get that high. I'm using a ceramic diffuser and at 25 psi


Victor uses gauges that are 2x the max output..If the gauge goes to 30 the reg will max out at 15.............
sorry to say, the use of a ceramic may not work..



> Victor® VTS 253A
> 
> 
> Regulator Type
> ...


If this is the one, should be able to return it.. Not as advertised:


> Victor CO2 Regulator Two Stage VTS253A BRAND NEW, NEVER USED! Includes a 1/4" barb and (2) tank gaskets. 0-30PSI OUTLET PRESSURE. SHIPPING IS FREE VIA USPS PRIORITY MAIL!
> ONE OF THE BEST FISH TANK REGULATORS YOU CANT BUY! CHECK THE FORUMS!!!





> Victor® Model VTS253B
> Delivery Rate
> » 2 - 40 psig


ect.. ect.. C,D..Each has larger max output as the letter goes up.


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## Leaky Filter (Nov 30, 2011)

jeffkrol said:


> "A" doesn't work.. 15psi max I believe..


I bought one and the gauge reads 20-25 psi. at max pressure when hooked up to a 5 lb. tank. I'm using a reactor anyway, so it's not a huge deal for me.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Leaky Filter said:


> I bought one and the gauge reads 20-25 psi. at max pressure when hooked up to a 5 lb. tank. I'm using a reactor anyway, so it's not a huge deal for me.



then Victors getting sloppy..


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## Kubla (Jan 5, 2014)

Leaky Filter said:


> I bought one and the gauge reads 20-25 psi. at max pressure when hooked up to a 5 lb. tank. I'm using a reactor anyway, so it's not a huge deal for me.


Could be as Jeffkrol said, or could be a faulty regulator or gauge if it's an "A".


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## Leaky Filter (Nov 30, 2011)

Kubla said:


> Could be as Jeffkrol said, or could be a faulty regulator or gauge if it's an "A".


It's BNIB and holds pressure on both stages. It could be 22 psi. and that's just how it works.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Well no matter.. did some part digging. Looks like the only difference between the "a" and "b" internals is the LP-spring and of course the gauge..
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...gulators.pdf&usg=AOvVaw0H9Cag8jxOA8rmEOSwEGuD

Just for curiosity sake.


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## Kubla (Jan 5, 2014)

jeffkrol said:


> Well no matter.. did some part digging. Looks like the only difference between the "a" and "b" internals is the LP-spring and of course the gauge..
> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...gulators.pdf&usg=AOvVaw0H9Cag8jxOA8rmEOSwEGuD
> 
> Just for curiosity sake.


That's good to know. At about $11 makes an easy conversion if you find an amazing deal on an "a" regulator.
That's a good reason to stick with Victor too. The stuff is available. I've had no luck finding parts for a nice Concoa reg I have.


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## rfassbi2 (Mar 5, 2018)

I'll have to go through the documentation some more. I hooked up my 5lb tank and i'm getting lots of CO2 coming out and the gauge reads 30psi on the output. Not sure if it will stay consistent though when the tank gets lower. It should though shouldn't it?


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

rfassbi2 said:


> I'll have to go through the documentation some more. I hooked up my 5lb tank and i'm getting lots of CO2 coming out and the gauge reads 30psi on the output. Not sure if it will stay consistent though when the tank gets lower. It should though shouldn't it?


Dual stage stays consistent until tank is dry. 30 psi when full and 30 psi when empty. That's one of the reasons we use them


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## rfassbi2 (Mar 5, 2018)

Kubla said:


> That's good to know. At about $11 makes an easy conversion if you find an amazing deal on an "a" regulator.
> That's a good reason to stick with Victor too. The stuff is available. I've had no luck finding parts for a nice Concoa reg I have.


You think my reactor might have been modified/converted to a B regulator?


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

rfassbi2 said:


> I'll have to go through the documentation some more. I hooked up my 5lb tank and i'm getting lots of CO2 coming out and the gauge reads 30psi on the output. Not sure if it will stay consistent though when the tank gets lower. It should though shouldn't it?


What regulator were you using when your had your supposed EOTD experience?


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## rfassbi2 (Mar 5, 2018)

gus6464 said:


> Dual stage stays consistent until tank is dry. 30 psi when full and 30 psi when empty. That's one of the reasons we use them


That's why I upgraded to one  I think I'll be good to go!




houseofcards said:


> What regulator were you using when your had your supposed EOTD experience?


It's a single stage that I used for brewing. I wasn't using a solenoid though and might have not re-tuned it when I turned it back up. I can't remember...this was worth the extra cash though. I can dial in the psi much easier

Here's the old regulator

















New tank set up. I added some more grass last night. Already found a scud so I might try CO2 nuking it since I don't have any shrimp in there yet.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

rfassbi2 said:


> ...
> It's a single stage that I used for brewing. I wasn't using a solenoid though and might have not re-tuned it when I turned it back up. I can't remember...this was worth the extra cash though. I can dial in the psi much easier


Sounds like it might've be another case of mistaken EOTD. Whether it's singe or dual it won't have an outcome on whether you get a consistent bubble count.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Just like clockwork................. 

http://uniweld.com/product/rvt80-series/


> Uniweld two stage regulators are used where steady delivery pressure is required over a range of decreasing cylinder inlet pressures. Delivery pressures will remain constant until pressure is nearly depleted.


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## galunggong (Oct 25, 2013)

You can find complete post body kits here https://www.diyco2regulator.com/
I'd get this one personally https://www.diyco2regulator.com/co2-regulator-post-body-kit-1-12v


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

jeffkrol said:


> Just like clockwork.................
> 
> RVT80 Series ? Uniweld Products, Inc.


That has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. The NV being inconsistent is 1,000 more dangerous to your fish then whether it's dual stage or not. If you don't agree with that your kidding yourself.

You know what works like clockwork, my 13 year old Milwaukee Single Stage, Azoo Single Stage both mini and full size. Between all of them they have put in 26 years of continuous service being run bone dry.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Awaiting the test.............

https://youtu.be/M08hPs-J3SM

Ok so add an Ideal or Dakota needle valve for $80-$90..........

Let me guess cheap Chinese [email protected] is just as good and must ALWAYS be "user error".............


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

My test is 26 years off ACTUAL USAGE not some forced test Mr. Link.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Show me and everyone here.. what happens at the end of the tank.. or charge..
Let everyone decide on their own w/ visual evidence...

I actually think you are afraid to do it..

https://youtu.be/M08hPs-J3SM

words.. blah blah blah..


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

jeffkrol said:


> Show me and everyone here.. what happens at the end of the tank.. or charge..
> Let everyone decide on their own w/ visual evidence...
> 
> I actually think you are afraid to do it..
> ...


Do you actually think I'm going to go to my tank, see when it's running low and then record it for you. Believe me I'm not that interested. And if I had to do that with my tanks I would have been out of the hobby a long time ago. I'll gamble and say most people on the forum care more about what goes on IN their tanks not about the equipment outside of it. I think I've done pretty well with the results inside my glass boxes. At the end of the day that's all that matters.

If you want to obsess over something that happens in such an infinitesimal amount of occurrences more power to you.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Same to you. You seem to be interested anytime someone mentions EOTD..

Shall we call it an obsession that anytime someone mentions it you say the "surely are mistaken"..........


BTW. you don't have to see when its low.. Charge it, shut off the solenoid and tank.. Remove the reg.. Open solenoid..
would take a whole 15min max........
Ohhhh.. how horrible..


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## rfassbi2 (Mar 5, 2018)

regardless of EOTD, this regulator is much nicer and I can dial in my PSI more accurately and it has a knob so I don't need to mess with the screw driver.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

rfassbi2 said:


> regardless of EOTD, this regulator is much nicer and I can dial in my PSI more accurately and it has a knob so I don't need to mess with the screw driver.


You should do what makes you comfortable. I'm just keeping it real and putting EOTD in perspective. There are over 300,000 threads here and practically none on EOTD and many of the claims of EOTD turned out to be a creeping needle valve or other issue. 

There is unfortunately a certain amount of fearmongering going on thinking people need a two stage when in reality it's just not much of an issue on any scale.


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## Leaky Filter (Nov 30, 2011)

houseofcards said:


> You should do what makes you comfortable. I'm just keeping it real and putting EOTD in perspective. There are over 300,000 threads here and practically none on EOTD and many of the claims of EOTD turned out to be a creeping needle valve or other issue.
> 
> There is unfortunately a certain amount of fearmongering going on thinking people need a two stage when in reality it's just not much of an issue on any scale.


It's a little of column A and a little of column B. In the early days of pressurized CO2, there was a good bit of experimenting going on with equipment and processes. The practical application of pressurized CO2 in planted aquariums saw quantum leaps in advancement. Part of that learning process involved gassed fish from faulty needle valves and also faulty regulators. A valuable learned lesson focused on equipment quality and more specifically, what equipment worked day-in and day-out. if the condition of the equipment is the same, dual stage regulators are of better quality than single-stage regulators and eliminate a fail point. That isn't fear-mongering. By your matrix, that a couple million years of collective experience.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

Leaky Filter said:


> It's a little of column A and a little of column B. In the early days of pressurized CO2, there was a good bit of experimenting going on with equipment and processes. The practical application of pressurized CO2 in planted aquariums saw quantum leaps in advancement. Part of that learning process involved gassed fish from faulty needle valves and also faulty regulators. A valuable learned lesson focused on equipment quality and more specifically, what equipment worked day-in and day-out. if the condition of the equipment is the same, dual stage regulators are of better quality than single-stage regulators and eliminate a fail point. That isn't fear-mongering. By your matrix, that a couple million years of collective experience.


Show me your data that proves how frequently EOTD happens? The overall collective here is a good sample. There are only a handful of threads on it and many aren't even proven to be EOTD. It might surprise you to know there are just as many threads here on people gassing their fish with dual stage as their is with single stage. 

If it was anything to really worry bout the jig would be up and no company would sell single stage anymore based on your "couple of million years of collective experience" It simply doesn't not happen often even to worry about. 

What is technically possible doesn't mean it's something to worry about. There are many things we live with everyday when you walk out your door that are technically possible, but you do walk out your door....I hope.


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## Leaky Filter (Nov 30, 2011)

houseofcards said:


> Show me your data that proves how frequently EOTD happens? The overall collective here is a good sample. There are only a handful of threads on it and many aren't even proven to be EOTD. It might surprise you to know there are just as many threads here on people gassing their fish with dual stage as their is with single stage.
> 
> If it was anything to really worry bout the jig would be up and no company would sell single stage anymore based on your "couple of million years of collective experience" It simply doesn't not happen often even to worry about.
> 
> What is technically possible doesn't mean it's something to worry about. There are many things we live with everyday when you walk out your door that are technically possible, but you do walk out your door....I hope.


You won't out and out deny EOTD, because you can't. The fact remains that better quality is... Better when you're dealing with something like this. 

You know what else I don't have to worry about? EOTD with a dual-stage regulator. It's one less fail point. It really helps me leave the house most days.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

Leaky Filter said:


> You won't out and out deny EOTD, because you can't. The fact remains that better quality is... Better when you're dealing with something like this.
> 
> You know what else I don't have to worry about? EOTD with a dual-stage regulator. It's one less fail point. It really helps me leave the house most days.


Whatever makes you happy. The data is just not there to back it up that it happens with any kind of frequency. 90-95% of co2 users have single stage, there would be multiple threads on this every day if it was an issue and reputable companies would not sell single stage anymore. 

Many things are technically possible. Lightning might strike me also be I still go out in the rain. It's whatever makes you comfortable, I'm just talking reality.


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## Kubla (Jan 5, 2014)

houseofcards said:


> Whatever makes you happy. The data is just not there to back it up that it happens with any kind of frequency. 90-95% of co2 users have single stage, there would be multiple threads on this every day if it was an issue and reputable companies would not sell single stage anymore.
> 
> Many things are technically possible. Lightning might strike me also be I still go out in the rain. It's whatever makes you comfortable, I'm just talking reality.


I can buy a quality 2 stage regulator on Ebay for less than $50. If I could get personal lightning protection for that kind of investment I'd do it.


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

rfassbi2 said:


> That's why I upgraded to one  I think I'll be good to go!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Have used the type filter pictured,and is tricky business to keep water level high enough (evaporation) to keep from off gassing CO2 even quicker than it want's to leave up and out as gasses do.(much raising and lowering of lift tube and or topping off water)
No big deal I guess, if you can keep fishes/shrimps with CO2 at higher level's than might otherwise not be needed.
Or if one doesn't mind losing gas at perhaps accelerated rate and thereby cheating the plant's before they can grab after it.
Me thinks a small canister or even small HOB Filter would be a bit of improvement from CO2 conservation perspective as well as aesthetics?


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

Kubla said:


> I can buy a quality 2 stage regulator on Ebay for less than $50. If I could get personal lightning protection for that kind of investment I'd do it.


Well you'd need some kind of umbrella policy since there are countless things that are more likely to happen to you when you walk out the door then to your fish without a dual stage.


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## underH20garden (Dec 19, 2017)

mgeorges said:


> You could get a pH controller instead...be cheaper. The pH controller will turn on and off your solenoid as needed to keep your pH at a constant, will prevent the EOTD. Just a thought, maybe save ya some money. Here's one I know several people around here use - https://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-716690-pH-Controller/dp/B00I47XIX2


this...lets talk about this, as I am in the market for a Co2 system...I am reading tons & learning quite alot the last few days. 

some things I understand are a quality needle valve is just as impotent. 
so maybe a single stage with quality NV and PH controller is just as good as a duel stage?? I am surprised more ppl dont use them? maybe they do just I dont know...haha 

so it seems to me that DIYing a duel stage with quality NV is the way to go. or get the single stage with ph meter at the very least. 
the challenge is learning what regs to get. but I am sloly staring to understand with alot of threads and help form the community! :grin2:

ok on looks at the link of the $120 PH controller. if you already have a nice single stage reg. that might be the way to go but for getting a whole setup I am back to DIYing with a quality NV and 2 stage...


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

> PH controller...............


Reg/needle valve wouldn't matter much..

Need to keep probe in good shape and calibrated.



> The American Marine Pinpoint pH Controller is the ideal aquarium control device for regulating carbon dioxide fertilization in freshwater planted aquariums. Certain reef calcium additives can potentially raise the pH above recommended levels and can easily be regulated by the Pinpoint controller.
> 
> The Milwaukee Instruments MC122 pH Controller is also a dependable pH-based controller. The main difference is the Pinpoint provides two powered outlets while the Milwaukee only has one.


http://fishtankadvisor.com/best-aquarium-controller-reviews/


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

Kubla said:


> I can buy a quality 2 stage regulator on Ebay for less than $50.


O.K. let me see you do that. A quality 2 stage for $50 ready to go. Just add cylinder.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

houseofcards said:


> O.K. let me see you do that. A quality 2 stage for $50 ready to go. Just add cylinder.



https://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-Instruments-MA957-Dual-Valve-Adjustable/dp/B002P39I8U


> Price: $85.95 & FREE Shipping


Whats your point?
$50 two stage
Add $10 SMC-as1000
$10 solenoid
$10 CGA
and cheap as bubble counter...

Yep need to do "work" .. horrors!!!.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

jeffkrol said:


> https://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-Instruments-MA957-Dual-Valve-Adjustable/dp/B002P39I8U
> 
> Whats your point?
> $50 two stage
> ...


OK, that's not $50, that's the only point I was making...and contrary to popular belief the typical user won't be building squat.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

houseofcards said:


> the typical user won't be building squat.


completely different subject..


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

jeffkrol said:


> completely different subject..


No it's not. Things that come assembled are always more even if the assembly is rather simple. Plus your probably gonna be hit with shipping charges for those separate parts (if sourced differently), so you probably talking more like $110-$130.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

EVER see me suggest someone buy a "retail" 2 stage FULL KIT ?????
answer .. no...except at one time when there were "reasonable quality and price" i.e $200-ish units.. don't exist ATM........

Some of the parts can be "free shipped" through evil bay... inc. the regulators..


Yes devil can be in the details but you are not talking orders of magnitude here.. Just a $20 or so......


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

jeffkrol said:


> EVER see me suggest someone buy a "retail" 2 stage FULL KIT ?????
> answer .. no...except at one time when there were "reasonable quality and price" i.e $200-ish units.. don't exist ATM........
> 
> Some of the parts can be "free shipped" through evil bay... inc. the regulators..
> ...


I was simply addressing poster saying it was $50 that is it. His proclamation proved to be false if you add in the other pieces YOU must have to get it to function for our use. 

It wasn't even addressed to you so "Lighten Up Francis!"


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## underH20garden (Dec 19, 2017)

houseofcards said:


> ...and contrary to popular belief the typical user won't be building squat.


really? I am a very new at this planted game, don't even have my take setup still slowly getting all the goodies, but I will more than likely DIY my Co2 reg. seems like the way to go...no? switching out the CGA, getting a NV and solenoid don't not sound all that hard. but ask me in a week or so..haha 

surprised more people dont do it? not that getting a plug n' play setup is bad... I dont mind learning and shopping to save some $$ and get what I want. but maybe that's me. a few days ago I knew nothing about CO2 and now I am slowly starting to get the idea, tons more to learn of course. but it is do able with a little help from this fine community! 
:fish::fish::fish:


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

underH20garden said:


> really? I am a very new at this planted game, don't even have my take setup still slowly getting all the goodies, but I will more than likely DIY my Co2 reg. seems like the way to go...no?


So what are you saying. That your a representative sample of the co2 using population. Do you think most people who have planted tanks and use co2 are even forum users? You could find a forum on pretty much anything. People in forums have an above average interest/dedication to something (myself included) and are more likely to DIY things then the representative population. 

Even with that said your in the minority on the forum that is willing to build.


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## underH20garden (Dec 19, 2017)

houseofcards said:


> So what are you saying. That your a representative sample of the co2 using population. Do you think most people who have planted tanks and use co2 are even forum users? You could find a forum on pretty much anything. People in forums have an above average interest/dedication to something (myself included) and are more likely to DIY things then the representative population.
> 
> Even with that said your in the minority on the forum that is willing to build.


maybe that is true...what the hell do I know? all I was saying if anything was I am surprised more ppl dont DIY.. 
and i'll take your compliment! lol but you are right I prob. would not attempt it with out the forum.


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## Kubla (Jan 5, 2014)

houseofcards said:


> O.K. let me see you do that. A quality 2 stage for $50 ready to go. Just add cylinder.


I got two CONCOA 3122301-01-320 for $75 from Ebay a couple of months ago. My Victor VTS253A-320 was $15 from here about 2 years ago. All in good working order ready to go. All of them look like new. Hopefully that's good enough. I don't need to do it again as I already have and extra regulator.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

Kubla said:


> I got two CONCOA 3122301-01-320 for $75 from Ebay a couple of months ago. My Victor VTS253A-320 was $15 from here about 2 years ago. All in good working order ready to go. *All of them look like new. Hopefully that's good enough.* I don't need to do it again as I already have and extra regulator.


Oh, now we moved to the USED marketplace, LOL. You didn't mention that in your initial post about getting a dual stage for $50 ready to go. The USED market is not a solution. What I mean by that is it's good for you if you found a reg at a bargain on ebay, but they aren't always going to be available nor will they always work as described. You even state "hopefully that's good enough"

I once got a $750 camera lens on ebay in perfect condition for $100, but it doesn't mean the next 100 people will get the same deal, in fact I know they won't. I'm not knocking someone getting a dual stage at a good price. The mean point is EOTD just isn't much of a concern and that's why 95% of the market uses single stage and suppliers even dedicated planted tank suppliers continue to sell much more of them than dual stage.


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## Kubla (Jan 5, 2014)

houseofcards said:


> Oh, now we moved to the USED marketplace, LOL. You didn't mention that in your initial post about getting a dual stage for $50 ready to go. The USED market is not a solution. What I mean by that is it's good for you if you found a reg at a bargain on ebay, but they aren't always going to be available nor will they always work as described. You even state "hopefully that's good enough"
> 
> I once got a $750 camera lens on ebay in perfect condition for $100, but it doesn't mean the next 100 people will get the same deal, in fact I know they won't. I'm not knocking someone getting a dual stage at a good price. The mean point is EOTD just isn't much of a concern and that's why 95% of the market uses single stage and suppliers even dedicated planted tank suppliers continue to sell much more of them than dual stage.


I stand by my original statement. "I can buy a quality 2 stage regulator on Ebay for less than $50" I can do it again. If you really need proof pony up the $50 (I don't need another regulator right now). As much as I've looked I know I can do it again, especially if I'll settle for brass. Those kind of deals aren't always immediately available, but they're available. As far as working properly, don't buy one that doesn't have a warranty. New ones don't always work right either.
Your $100 lens certainly doesn't mean the next 100 will get same deal. They might get a better deal. What it does mean is that you can buy $750 lens for $100. You proved it.

As for the used market not being a solution, sure it is. It solved the issue I had of replacing the single stage regulator (purchased NEW) that I experienced EOTD with.

I think you misunderstood my comment of "Hopefully that's good enough". I thought my word might not be good enough. After reading the obvious attitudes on here I thought I might need to submit receipts and canceled checks.


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## timmytoes (Mar 13, 2018)

Kubla said:


> I got two CONCOA 3122301-01-320 for $75 from Ebay a couple of months ago. My Victor VTS253A-320 was $15 from here about 2 years ago. All in good working order ready to go. All of them look like new. Hopefully that's good enough. I don't need to do it again as I already have and extra regulator.


so, if you were in the market for a dual stage reg, NV, bubble counter, check valve, solenoid, tank, basically whole set up from scratch. You could get everything you need for less than $150? If so send me the links and I'll buy it and set it up for my tank.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

142643264842 $10.50
282885132951 $59.99
272639153143 $89.30

$159.79 
$169.79 w/ CGA swap
You can't include the tank.. and bubble counters add what $10..
Check valve is a buck or 2 or in the BC.

BTW: REg is new, metering valve is new.. solenoids used..
4# recertified tank
Total $47.31 inc shipping to me..
https://beveragelements.com/beverag...ylinders/4-lb-co2-cylinder-steel-recertified/

Above your challenge, granted but this is the Luxury model

So say $230 w/ "the best" parts..

I can do a lot cheaper.. w/ bigger risks..
Or downgrade a bit:
272639153143 $89.30
and $89 kit for solenoid, fittings and Fabco..

Give me a link to a one stage that includes all the above inc tank w/ shipping

Probably could do the $150 w/ time and effort..
Many have, but it involves work.......and time


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002P39I8U?tag=vs-powersports-convert-amazon-20
$90 no tank..way inferior (but useable) parts.. There is really no argument to that.


Want to gamble.. "pretty sure" this goes to *50psi max.*..ser #'s hard to read.
302436618518
2 stage
Only $46.55

some days it's easy to find really cheap 2 stages, some days, not so easy.. but they are always there..

4 pack of check valves.. 
272916754719 $9

bubble counter $5
292279873442


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## Kubla (Jan 5, 2014)

timmytoes said:


> so, if you were in the market for a dual stage reg, NV, bubble counter, check valve, solenoid, tank, basically whole set up from scratch. You could get everything you need for less than $150? If so send me the links and I'll buy it and set it up for my tank.


I'm not sure how you read all that in anything that I posted. I believe I posted about regulators, all the other components you mentioned are added to a regulator. But, it could probably be done. Pretty tough to post links. Most of the stuff you get good deals on Ebay aren't for the posted price or auction it's the "make offer" option. Amazing what low offers are sometimes accepted. Works for easier to ship more expensive items like regulators and needle valves. Bubble counters and check valves are cheap. Tanks are a lot tougher to buy cheap. You can get around that too though, they can be rented at most places that swap tanks.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

Kubla said:


> I can buy a quality 2 stage regulator on Ebay for less than $50. If I could get personal lightning protection for that kind of investment I'd do it.


I'm still not sure why you even posted this. I was talking to the OP about the how rare EOTD is and it's not necessary to worry about it and you came out with your $50 statement. So what? The price is only one issue the other is simply MOST will not build and co2 so important to success IMO, people coming into the hobby shouldn't think they need dual stage or they'll gas there fish. The collective here state that single stage is fine and there are other things that are far more likely to occur that will kill your fish. 

The used market is not scalable. So you can get me one, big deal. This isn't about you and me it's about a viable solution for everyone coming in.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

> This isn't about you and me it's about a viable solution for everyone coming in.


Really? 

Sounds more like your usual crusade against 2 stage regulators................


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

jeffkrol said:


> Really?
> 
> Sounds more like your usual crusade against 2 stage regulators................


I"m on a crusade about reality! That people shouldn't fear using single stage because of the small equipment gaggle here that tries to invoke fear mongering over something about nothing and those people end up not using co2 at all.


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## Kubla (Jan 5, 2014)

houseofcards said:


> I'm still not sure why you even posted this. I was talking to the OP about the how rare EOTD is and it's not necessary to worry about it and you came out with your $50 statement. So what? The price is only one issue the other is simply MOST will not build and co2 so important to success IMO, people coming into the hobby shouldn't think they need dual stage or they'll gas there fish. The collective here state that single stage is fine and there are other things that are far more likely to occur that will kill your fish.
> 
> The used market is not scalable. So you can get me one, big deal. This isn't about you and me it's about a viable solution for everyone coming in.


Perhaps you should go back and read the OP. The $50 post directly responds to post #1. It's clearly stated he wants options for cost effective 2 stage regulators. He also talks about fittings meaning he's planning on building. That answers his original question with facts based on my experience, I thought that's what a forum is about. 
"...co2 so important to success IMO, people coming into the hobby shouldn't think they need dual stage or they'll gas there fish." I completely agree. Maybe try just saying that rather than asking questions about "supposed" EOTD that come across as condenscending. I personally don't think EOTD is very common either but the fact that there are more likely ways to kill your fish changes nothing about it.

My apologies to the OP for helping to get off on this tangent. I'm done.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

Kubla said:


> Perhaps you should go back and read the OP. The $50 post directly responds to post #1.


I think you should take your own advise and read post #1 yourself. I was simply asking OP questions about his EOTD experience which he stated in post #1 and out came your very misleading post about a $50 dual stage regulator. Not only wasn't it for a new one (buying used is always risky) plus you needed all the other pieces to make it useable so I'm still not sure why the post.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

houseofcards said:


> I"m on a crusade about reality! That people shouldn't fear using single stage because of the small equipment gaggle here that tries to invoke fear mongering over something about nothing and those people end up not using co2 at all.


you AND I don't really make the decisions for them....
Kind of egotistical to think otherwise...

you refuse to actually show reality:
https://youtu.be/M08hPs-J3SM

Thats real how about yours. NOW EXACTLY WHAT that means is another story...


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

jeffkrol said:


> you AND I don't really make the decisions for them....
> Kind of egotistical to think otherwise...
> 
> you refuse to actually show reality:
> ...


You keep showing one link that your relying on. If people relied on your links instead of REAL USAGE they would still think that 1st class postage online doesn't include tracking and is limited to 13 oz which you tried to prove in the other thread by attaching outdated links just to argue with me. Who cares about your link, when the hundreds of thousands of threads say otherwise. The reality is your more likely to get hurt taking a dump (1 in 10,000) then having End of Tank Dump.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

I'm asking you to verify the vid w/ your own regulators..

no more no less..

you refuse to help... Make your own video..

that vid doesn't prove nor disprove "classic" EOTD.. just shows reality...


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

OK the video is reality. Then it must happen all the time so show me your data. Your a data man right. The reality is the 10s of thousands of people using them without issue. THAT'S REALITY, Where's the data. There are millions of posts here. According to you it should be happening on a daily basis based on the number of end user hours combined. 

Meanwhile your so concerned about fish with single stage that you recommend overdosing glut/excel in a Discus tank to get rid of algae and you've never even kept them. 

You have a fish tank only so you can run equipment. Most run equipment so they can have a fish tank. Thats the disconnect you have.


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## galunggong (Oct 25, 2013)

*Ebay Regulator*

If you still havent found a dual stage in [Ebay Link Removed] I thought this was a really good deal for a new custom built one Ebay# 323145889241
I think you will just need a ceramic diffuser to start injecting CO2


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

houseofcards said:


> OK the video is reality. Then it must happen all the time so show me your data. Your a data man right. The reality is the 10s of thousands of people using them without issue. THAT'S REALITY, Where's the data. There are millions of posts here. According to you it should be happening on a daily basis based on the number of end user hours combined.
> 
> Meanwhile your so concerned about fish with single stage that you recommend overdosing glut/excel in a Discus tank to get rid of algae and you've never even kept them.
> 
> You have a fish tank only so you can run equipment. Most run equipment so they can have a fish tank. Thats the disconnect you have.


Keep to the subject.. Already corrected the Discus thing and besides.. that isn't 100% proven either..



> OK the video is reality. Then it must happen all the time so show me your data.


I don't have any single stage so I asked your help.. you refused....Why do you go on looking silly??

BTW: anyone is free to do it as well.. so not just your burden..
Point was to add data to a well documented engineering/physics fact..


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Thread has reached the end of its usefulness.


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