# xenxes's EHEIM Aquastyle 9.2g - Restart #3 (Tannic Jungle + TiBee Melting Pot)



## xenxes

Restart #3 - moved to CA, and bringing this back 

1/9/15 - Lowtech Start









2/6/15









3/12/15









*Equipment*: 
- EHEIM Aquastyle 9, all stock
- Riparium shower caddie ($5) superglued to mini hooks ($5)

*Fauna*: 
- ~16x mischling CRS/CBS (3 sources)
- 10x hybrid BKK x Super Tiger
- 10x hybrid Snow White x Aura Blue (c. serrata)
- 5x shadow BKK
- 2x royal OEBT










*Flora*: 
- 



_Redacted Original Post_
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Ordered this @ BB&B to get rid of store credit. $159.99-20% = $128 - $105 store credit, still came out to be $50ish out of pocket with shipping+taxes. Moving on to my second tank in under a week, hope this doesn't become a trend lol.

Tank is all glass with seamless round corners and a glass lid, measures 12.25 x 12.25 x 14.1 inches, 9 gallon capacity. Stock LED with 81 diodes claims 1200 lumens at 6000k (7w). 

The stock LED is certainly better than my Fluval Spec stock, but is it good enough for medium-high light plants? I'd like to add some color this time around.


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## diwu13

7W seems pretty low as 1W/gallon is generally means med/high light.

Is that a built in filter as well?


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## xenxes

Yeah filter is built in at the corner, 4W pump. Just a piece of foam and some of those white-rock things on top (biomedia). It can be replaced with a sack of carbon, but only one at a time (not like the 3 stage filtration in the Fluval).

Does the 1W/gal rule also apply to low energy LEDs? Don't know anything about lighting... was reading this article here web.ncf.ca/bf250/plantlumen.html but it went a little over my head


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## Ben.

For that size tank, the LEDs will probably only be able to grow moss, very slowly.


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## Storm

xenxes said:


> Yeah filter is built in at the corner, 4W pump. Just a piece of foam and some of those white-rock things on top (biomedia). It can be replaced with a sack of carbon, but only one at a time (not like the 3 stage filtration in the Fluval).
> 
> Does the 1W/gal rule also apply to low energy LEDs? Don't know anything about lighting... was reading this article here web.ncf.ca/bf250/plantlumen.html but it went a little over my head


The 1 watt/gallon rule does not apply to LEDs, which are much more powerful for a given wattage than fluorescent lights. It doesn't even really apply to fluorescent lighting, but that's another topic.

The answer is you can't really be sure how much light that LED will produce unless you have an expensive PAR tester. Unfortunately the PAR tester will probably cost more than 2 of those tanks would... Having said that, I saw a demo Aquastyle 9 setup at the LFS and the owner said it could grow medium light plants. I'm not sure about high light plants, but the light seemed pretty bright to me.

I think it's a great tank, but you will probably only be able to reliably grow low-medium light plants, especially without Co2.

Good luck!


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## diwu13

Interesting about that tiny filter. Will you be keeping the filter as well? Oh yea, totally missed that you wrote it was LED. Not sure if the 1W/gallon applies to LEDs as others stated, LEDs are generally much more powerful. If it isn't strong enough you can always get a 13W 6500K CFL bulb and adjust the height for the lighting you desire. But I'd see what the LED can do.


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## sssnel

How is this coming along for you? I like the tank quite a bit.


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## sssnel

I did a standard 10 gallon as a Beta Sorority and had 7 in there. They were the only fish in the tank. That tank did well because of all the plants in it. If you plan on heavily planting with lots of hiding places then it sounds great. 
I will say if you can get them all at once that would be better. I received mine as young ones from the same place and that tank lasted about 3 years. Now I have just one left from the group. She is 5 years old and by herself now.


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## xenxes

Wow a 5 year old Betta! That is impressive.

I'm actually leaning more towards neon tetras + RCS. I haven't setup the tank yet  been trying to find a perfect piece of driftwood for a moss tree. 

What do you guys think of this for $23? Don't know what kind of wood...










I think the dimensions are in cm so would fit perfectly (maybe a little trimming). Shipping may take upward to 20+ days coming from Thailand.


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## diwu13

Too many branches for my taste. Unless you're planning on trimming all those thin ones off? The color also makes it seem really "artificial", but it might look better under water.


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## xenxes

diwu13 said:


> Too many branches for my taste. Unless you're planning on trimming all those thin ones off? The color also makes it seem really "artificial", but it might look better under water.


I want to snip off the top 15cm, hoping to do a:










But it'll probably turn out like a:










I don't like the color either :/ anyway to darken it without pollution? Oven bake or roast over a fire? lol.


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## robbowal

it looks like red moor wood if it is it will darken down quite a bit once in the water.
it is popular in europe as manzinita wood is not readily available in europe.


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## diwu13

xenxes said:


> But it'll probably turn out like a:
> 
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> 
> I don't like the color either :/ anyway to darken it without pollution? Oven bake or roast over a fire? lol.


LOL your second comment with picture cracked me up. But with the scapes in your other tanks I think you could easily pull off that first picture.

There's definitely paints designed to be used in an aquarium and are safe when dry. But if the wood darkens in the water maybe you won't need it?


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## Ozydego

As an example of LEDs, I am receiving a light from innovative marine today that is 8 watts. It outputs 960 lumens and at 6 inches down its around 50-80 par which is medium to high light. at 12 inches down, its 20-50 par which is low to medium light. Here is the par measurement graph, they give par numbers for saltwater, but from what I remember 20 is low light, 50 is medium light, and 80 is high light

http://innovative-marine.com/skkye-light/par-graph/clamp-par-page.pdf


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## CorrinaCorrina

I have a piece of wood from my LFS that was a similar color when I got it, not it looks like a dark red, cherry like color. All knotty and rooty. Fishes love it  Good luck! 

I am trying VERRRRRRYYYYY hard to combat MTS too! I have been wanting to get some discus when my angels die and I now only have one left! But my 38 g is too small for them


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## xenxes

I went ahead and ordered it. More branches is always better than less, and I can work on the color. Really did not want to pay for something I could find a couple blocks away on the beach, but then again I don't know how much quality drift wood washes up on Miami shores. 

"*Delivery: Estimated within 14-23 business days*" ... and the waiting begins 

I have the following coming in the mail:

*Supplies*:
1x Driftwood piece
2x 12x12" SS mesh
17x various sized suction cups
3x Bamboo charcoal tubes

*Flora*:
8x 4x4" xmas moss
1x selaginella erythropus (red club moss) (full terrestrial plant, I'll see if I can make it work; it might drown and suffocate -- will CO2 bubbler and some leaves above surface help?)

*Fauna*:
tbd

Will also head to LFS later for some more Tahitian moon sand and eco-complete or black fluorite. Fish stock will come much later. 

I'll let you guess on what I'll be doing  but looks like I won't be getting started until late January / early Feb. UGH! :bounce:


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## diwu13

Why did you need so much SS mesh for? Did you order from h4n ?


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## xenxes

Only using 1 piece for this tank, copying certain elements from your tanks 

Will cut up the other for my temporary holding-tank project (while I wait for the wood, GAH!). Got it off Amazon, have gift credits sitting there waiting to be spent.

Do colla wood make better hiding spots than bamboo charcoals? They look better imo.


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## diwu13

Cholla wood allows for micro-organisms to grow on it, that baby shrimp can eat. The tannins it releases also buffers the water a bit. And all the holes make for many entrances for shrimp to enter/escape from. So I think it's better than bamboo charcoals as well. But I doubt the shrimp really care if it's cholla wood or drilled PVC pipe 

If you ever decide to get more SS mesh (doubt it, since you got a TON) I can refer you to someone who sells them cheap on here ! That's who I've been getting mine from. Do you have good scissors/shears to cut them? I broke my industrial scissors lol :\.

And are you making moss walls with the SS mesh? Or just moss tiles/shapes?


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## xenxes

Sounds very cool, but I guess I'll hold off now, cholla wood color may contrast with black substrate too much.

Doing a wall with the SS, but don't make me give all my plans away. It's going to be a surprise (if it turns out well).


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## diwu13

Ok. One word of warning. Make sure to use more suction cups than planned to suspend the wall up. SS mesh is pretty heavy, so you don't want that falling when you're gone and smooshing some shrimp flat right :X? For my moss walls I only use cloth mesh, much lighter but doesn't retain shape really well. The reason they look flat is because the suction cups are putting tension. I won't ask any more questions on the wall !


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## Storm

Ozydego said:


> As an example of LEDs, I am receiving a light from innovative marine today that is 8 watts. It outputs 960 lumens and at 6 inches down its around 50-80 par which is medium to high light. at 12 inches down, its 20-50 par which is low to medium light. Here is the par measurement graph, they give par numbers for saltwater, but from what I remember 20 is low light, 50 is medium light, and 80 is high light
> 
> http://innovative-marine.com/skkye-light/par-graph/clamp-par-page.pdf


Oh man! Please let me know how this light works out for you. I'm thinking about picking a couple of those up myself!


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## xenxes

Storm said:


> Oh man! Please let me know how this light works out for you. I'm thinking about picking a couple of those up myself!


I just looked @ these, wow they're expensive. $100 for the 8W light alone?


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## xenxes

diwu were your SS mesh this thick? It's really heavy too.. and I can't bend it  trying to find wire cutters.


















This'll be interesting...


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## diwu13

Yes those look like the exact ones I have, including the mesh spacing. I was using industrial scissors to cut that, and it snapped into my palm . I ended up buying this from amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003HGH45S/ref=oh_o04_s00_i00_details and these cut through the mesh really easily. You kinda need a third pair of hands (or a foot) to pry the mesh apart while cutting though.


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## shrimpnmoss

Yeah, wire cutters won't cut it...hehe....You'll need metal shears.


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## xenxes

Finally started setting it up:









going where the old fluval spec was, bigger than I expected









Getting some moss ready, left is xmas/taiwan grown submerged (just got it in the mail today, smells REALLY fishy, i.e. you could smell it from the next room); right is grown emersed, I think. Correct me if it's a different variety.









closeup









1/2" of dirt, 1" of black gravel & Tahitian moon sand, not sure what to plant in it yet, just laid out some moss









damnit! tried to pour slow but upset the sand cap, dirt everywhere. Some moss fell out, I should have double netted the SS piece (only did horizontal wraps)









my love hate relationship with dirt, took half an hour to scoop up enough debris, finally called it quits









ended up removing the moss pieces, there was debris falling out everywhere. Letting it cycle with nutrafin cycle & some old media. I'll have to redo that moss wall too, didn't go low enough and bottom right corner is bent out a little.


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## sayurasem

Nice. I think those are the perfect light for moss. Literally no maintenance tank lol.


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## Ozydego

When I get dirt over my sand, I siphon it out with tubing, the bigger the chunks, the bigger diameter the tubing has to be, if you sifted the dirt before putting it in, then airline tubing should work perfectly, you will get some sand too, but that's easy to put back in, next time, try using a plastic grocery bag over the bottom so even if the water splashes, not a big issue... Can you tell I have already been through this same issue?


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## londonloco

I've been considering buying one of these tanks for a few weeks now (have the perfect spot in my family room for one). Put it off til spring. Last year I bought an ADA 45F, a small 4 gallon for my RCS (a birthday gift for myself!). Ended up with this light:

http://www.adana-usa.com/index.php?...ducts_id=667&zenid=2tk2pela9flsa0ttj97gsh8h43

I've been growing christmas moss, wisteria and various crypts nicely. However, my tank is only 6.3" tall. Here's a recent pic, tank is about 2 months old:










The christmas moss is still on it's wire mess, I want to glue it to the rocks one day, but wanted to give it time to "fluff up". 

I've done a betta sorority, 10 females in a 29g planted. They were all happy for a few months, but as they started to mature, they got very aggressive with each other. I ended up with 4 females in four different tanks. I know some say they are doable, but I've never seen anyone post they have had success over a year. 

Good luck with your tank, I'm suscribed! :icon_smil


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## xenxes

sayurasem said:


> Nice. I think those are the perfect light for moss. Literally no maintenance tank lol.


I'll be adding more stuff, probably random clippings I got from members here. I'd like to keep it simple / shrimp friendly. No major scaping until I get my driftwood.




Ozydego said:


> When I get dirt over my sand, I siphon it out with tubing, the bigger the chunks, the bigger diameter the tubing has to be, if you sifted the dirt before putting it in, then airline tubing should work perfectly, you will get some sand too, but that's easy to put back in, next time, try using a plastic grocery bag over the bottom so even if the water splashes, not a big issue... Can you tell I have already been through this same issue?


I have one of those Aqueon water change / gravel vacuum things but it doesn't fit on my kitchen sink faucet  PLASTIC BAG IDEA IS AMAZING! Simple things garnered from experience I suppose, would have never thought of it. I ended up swirling the bottom with my hand and netting out most of the big particles with a big brine shrimp net. The filter will do the rest, I'll just wash out dust for a few days.




londonloco said:


> I've been considering buying one of these tanks for a few weeks now (have the perfect spot in my family room for one). Put it off til spring. Last year I bought an ADA 45F, a small 4 gallon for my RCS (a birthday gift for myself!).


That ADA tank looks gorgeous. I much prefer something shallower and longer (easier to scape and maintain too), but this is what would fit in the space. I'll be doing RCS solely, maybe introduce a small school of tetras later on when I have sufficient ground cover / RCS population boom.


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## diwu13

xenxes said:


> Finally started setting it up:
> 
> 
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> going where the old fluval spec was, bigger than I expected
> 
> *Is that little fountain for your cat's drinking water ?*
> 
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> 
> Getting some moss ready, left is xmas/taiwan grown submerged (just got it in the mail today, smells REALLY fishy, i.e. you could smell it from the next room); right is grown emersed, I think. Correct me if it's a different variety.
> 
> *Not sure, they definitely look different though *
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> damnit! tried to pour slow but upset the sand cap, dirt everywhere. Some moss fell out, I should have double netted the SS piece (only did horizontal wraps)
> 
> *I see how it covered an entire side almost perfectly now. That might actually work and no shrimp should be able to get behind that! I would recommend plastic mesh over the SS mesh to hold the moss in place better. Of course wrapping pure fishing line is much faster though! You can even flip the wall backwards so you force the moss to grow through the mesh! This will also stop the moss from falling out.*


See the bolded text


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## xenxes

Thanks diwu. Yeah I used clear fish line because you can't see it, but then realized you can still see the SS mesh *scratches head* /sigh. I took it out and wrapped some vertical lines earlier (not nearly as meticulous with it). Moss are pretty stable.

I put my sick oto in here with medicine this morning, still have to pickup a 10g quarantine tank at Petco when I get a chance. Do you think I could eventually keep 3 otos (more shrimp friendly than tetras) in here with the RCS? Or is there not enough horizontal swimming space... they mostly move up and down the glass.

And yeah the kitty fountain keeps him out of my fish tanks and the toilet.


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## diwu13

I think this tank has more than enough room for 3 ottos! They should do fine as long as you give them enough surface area to suck on 

Oh.. I guess the kitty fountain didn't work that well with your other tank though


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## xenxes

diwu13 said:


> I think this tank has more than enough room for 3 ottos! They should do fine as long as you give them enough surface area to suck on
> 
> Oh.. I guess the kitty fountain didn't work that well with your other tank though


That was because he ran out of wheatgrass to nibble on, and the dracaena leaves looked tasty  I'm more of a dog person, but he's very spoiled.










Was an impulse adoption when he was a kitten, you can see why:










I'm never going to animal rescue again


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## atom

I'd be suckered in by that face too.

Can't wait to see the progression of your tank! So no bettas for you?


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## xenxes

No bettas, won't get along with RCS and I really want a shrimp tank  Maybe I'll do a shallow 29 long with dividers in the future for bettas.

I think RCS, otos, and tetras can much better utilize the vertical space.


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## xenxes

I got my driftwood in the mail -- very upset.

This is what I got in the mail: 









It's about half the size, looks like a plain piece of wood with twigs I can find on the street.

This is what I ordered:



xenxes said:


> Wow a 5 year old Betta! That is impressive.
> 
> I'm actually leaning more towards neon tetras + RCS. I haven't setup the tank yet  been trying to find a perfect piece of driftwood for a moss tree.
> 
> What do you guys think of this for $23? Don't know what kind of wood...
> 
> 
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> 
> I think the dimensions are in cm so would fit perfectly (maybe a little trimming). Shipping may take upward to 20+ days coming from Thailand.


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## diwu13

It may be just me... but it looks like you got something entirely different. You should report the seller, that picture is really good evidence that they sent you a piece of **** wood instead of the one in the picture.


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## xenxes

I think I'm going to use it.. would take forever to ship it back to Thailand and get a refund/exchange. It's actually fairly dark wet, boiling it now.










On the plus side I got a bunch of plants in the mail from the fisherman, 6 balls of mixed moss from Lesley. TY! 

Plants:


> -limnophila aromatica (tops)
> -limnophila repens mini
> -star repens (emersed)
> -hygrophila polysperma
> -green cabomba
> -mytery plant!












One more, the sole inhabitant of the tank eating a pond snail. Aggressive little bugger.


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## diwu13

Gah, it's unfair you didnt' get the piece of wood you paid for. I agree with you that it looks MUCH better wet, but still, I would expect better from a seller :\.

LOL nice bottle of champagne? next to the PAM spray  haha. I like the little moss balls! Are you going to use plant weights to keep all those stem plants down?

That evil shrimp :X


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## thefisherman

xenxes don't forget the star repens was grown emersed, unless you have high CO2... they might "reset" their leaves submerged. they should bounce back tho, they're pretty beastly plants 


Sent from my iPhone


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## cableguy69846

Tank is off to a good start man.:icon_smil

Ok, on to what really attracted me to comment on your thread. CUTE CAT! Lol, ok. I am done derailing now.:hihi:

Following along on this one for sure.:icon_smil


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## xenxes

diwu13 said:


> Gah, it's unfair you didnt' get the piece of wood you paid for. I agree with you that it looks MUCH better wet, but still, I would expect better from a seller :\.
> 
> LOL nice bottle of champagne? next to the PAM spray  haha. I like the little moss balls! Are you going to use plant weights to keep all those stem plants down?
> 
> That evil shrimp :X


Lol cheap bottle of champagne, next to a cheap bottle of riesling  I just stick the stem plants into the substrate, the sand & gravel upper layer falls into place, I release the tongs slowly and it sticks!



thefisherman said:


> xenxes don't forget the star repens was grown emersed, unless you have high CO2... they might "reset" their leaves submerged. they should bounce back tho, they're pretty beastly plants
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone


TY fisherman, they're beautiful. The seemed like new right out of the bag, no signs of wear from the shipping. I have it spread around a bit between my tanks. Hoping my overstocked 20g will be adequate for CO2, I do dose 1/2 Excel dose every week, but bubbler though.




cableguy69846 said:


> Tank is off to a good start man.:icon_smil
> 
> Ok, on to what really attracted me to comment on your thread. CUTE CAT! Lol, ok. I am done derailing now.:hihi:
> 
> Following along on this one for sure.:icon_smil


Lol I just did some planting, cat hair everywhere in the water afterwards  makes me want to shave him. Pics to come.


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## cableguy69846

xenxes said:


> Lol I just did some planting, cat hair everywhere in the water afterwards  makes me want to shave him. Pics to come.


Looking forward to seeing it.:icon_smil

I keep glass tops on my tanks to keep the fuzz out. One of my cats decided to eat some plants the other night though and got a leaf. No fish snacks yet though.:hihi:


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## xenxes

Nothing ever goes as expected, so here's improvisation:









Making a moss tree on the twig, PITA, never doing one again. 1/2 hour in, about to give up.









Downed that bottle of cheap champagne and finished it 









I kinda just threw everything I had lying around in. I have half a mind to tear out all the plants in the back, they're too tall and will get taller (this was after cutting in 1/2). I realized moss tree on moss wall does not look good, no contrast, may try a layer of something red later. Will also need to do a hill with substrate when I get more rocks.









Looks like an ugly bonsai  May remove bottom 3 twigs and superglue them so I get the shape I want. What would a superglued moss tree look like? White opaque chunks between the stems?



Diwu, I told you it would look like:



>


And why is my moss so dark?


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## atom

Keep it up. When the tree grows out it has potential to be amazing! I think it would look better with out the lowest branch and I agree about the contrast issue.


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## diwu13

I don't know what's worse man. Getting cat hair in your tank.. or getting your GF/finacee's hair in the tank. My GF sheds like CRAZY! And she has like 3ft long hair. Imagine seeing one of those floating around and having shrimp on it ._. scary haha. Especially if there's like shampoo on that hair or something, could wipe out my entire tank. The thing is... she likes helping and is good at it. I guess the next present for her is a hairnet for anything around the shrimp tanks 



>


Honestly the tree doesnt' look half bad. You did a great job with the moss. How were you connecting it? Super glue or fishing string? But yea, totally agree if you hack off those bottom two branches and glue them to the top the tree will look more like a bonsai and less like a tree. Not that looking like a tree is bad, so it's your choice. But when you super glue it, you gotta let it dry fully outside the water and make sure the wood is 100% dry. Then the glue won't turn white. That, or use a tiny bit of super glue and then secure it more tightly with clear fishing line.



>


Where did you find this image? From google or this forumn? I actually stumbled upon this exact imagine in someone's journal and the bonsai turns out AWESOME down the road. Not sure if you saw those pictures but I can try and dig those up.


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## xenxes

3 ft hair is easier to pick out than a bunch of 3" hairs  I used fish line. 










I removed the plants, too busy. Going to wait for the moss to grow out a bit before trimming down the branches, not sure how it'll grow and don't want to do it prematurely. I think it's a little too big and I'd like to add more dimension, but it's very hard to utilize vertical space. With a long tank I could just copy the many scapes out there.

Also the moss wall kills the contrast. Have you seen any scapes with a moss tree AND a moss wall? I spent too much time on it to remove it. I was thinking perhaps a small wall of ludwigia arcuata between the wall and the tree, but that might look weird. I need some long slabs of rocks to work with, any ideas?

That guy's tank eventually turned out:









Note* Moss tree: not for beginners. I should have just stuck with plant clippings


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## diwu13

Yea that's the exact thread I looked at. His tree turned out awesome before he ignored the tank and let it grow into that mess lol.

But I dunno, I'm a huge fan of moss walls (can you tell)? It'll look better when the moss grows out to cover it but it really allows shrimp to hang out near the top of the tank more.


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## xenxes

diwu13 said:


> Yea that's the exact thread I looked at. His tree turned out awesome before he ignored the tank and let it grow into that mess lol.
> 
> But I dunno, I'm a huge fan of moss walls (can you tell)? It'll look better when the moss grows out to cover it but it really allows shrimp to hang out near the top of the tank more.


Yeah I was going for more of a shrimp habitat, that wall pretty much doubles their space. Wasn't thinking too much of how it will look until now. I guess function over form in this case  My panda tank turned into a jungle, actually so did the betta tank.

How often do you change the water in your shrimp tanks?


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## diwu13

Just give the wall time to grow out !

I change the water 2x a week at ~15%. I have to change it that much since I'm using tap that comes out at 150 TDS.


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## xenxes

Uhm, I've never tested my tap's GH, KH, or TDS. Now I'm worried. What levels are tolerable for shrimp? I haven't lost any yet... so that's a good sign?

Recommend me a TDS meters? eBay has some for $12, don't know how reliable those are.


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## diwu13

Generally for RCS you don't need to test anything. But having a TDS meter on hand is always useful in my opinion as you can always use it down the line for pickier shrimps.

Anyway, your tap is probably perfect for RCS if they aren't dying. Might not be the case for CRS or any caridina though but that's another story. I mainly use the TDS meter to monitor the levels of dissolves ammonia/nitrites/nitrates in my tank as those three will contribute and increase the TDS over a course of a week. Before a WC my TDS is generally ~250 in both tanks. After a WC with ~150TDS water, the tanks both drop to ~215TDS. When I leave for the weekend I often return to TDS levels higher than 250, due to the buildup of dissolved crap.

As for which TDS meter you want, I'd go with this: http://www.amazon.com/HM-Digital-Po...6L5M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1327605276&sr=8-1 In order to get a gH and kH reading you'll need a test kit though.


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## xenxes

What about this HM Digital TDS-EZ, a little cheaper but the MSRP is higher? Better?


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## diwu13

Um... I don't know if the one you linked as ATC (automatic temperature control) as the ions change conductivity at different temperatures. The one I linked does. This difference will only be ~10TDS so it's not that huge of a deal. But for $4 extra you might as well get one that has ATC right?


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## xenxes

Lol okay, grabbed it


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## diwu13

Haha! Do you already have a kH and gH test kit? You can get one with both in one. Pretty much what you do is test the kH, gH, and TDS of your tap once a day over a course of ~10 days or so. These 10 measurements should be pretty consistant for all three variables. Then you do a little math. Crappy TDS = total TDS - kH - gH (make sure everything has the same units). That's how much "crap" is in your tap water haha. Now, after those ~10 days, you can ONLY check the TDS with your TDS meter (no more test kits yay) and use that to judge how much crap is in your tank.


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## xenxes

Nope, thought about getting the API kH/gH one, but read neoc. tolerate such a large range that it probably didn't matter. This hobby is getting more and more expensive 

I don't think I'll be doing caridinas. Though it would be cool to have some crystal blacks in my bamboo forest/jungle. Panda fish AND panda shrimp, whaaat?


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## diwu13

Yea with neos you can just go test strips + TDS meter haha. You don't need pinpoint accurate kh/gh readings so the test strips do great (and much cheaper to boot). This is actually what I do lol.

I won't be doing caridina's either. Too much trouble. I want like 20x 10G tanks in the future, each with a different color of neo .


----------



## xenxes

Lol that would be awesome, I'd like to do something similar in my "shrimp room" when I get a house. 

I'll need a lot of matching rimless tanks. Do you think deep or shallow tanks are better for breeding shrimp? Or just the standard 10g width and depth? 20 Petco tanks would only be $200


----------



## diwu13

Eh.. I kinda like the black rim on tanks. If you set up a nice black colored rack it will all fit together nicely lol. If you really wanted you can just de-rim the 10g tanks from petco.

Shallow tanks are "better" for shrimp in that there's more ground surface area. Tall tanks are bad since a lot of the vertical space is wasted (unless you use moss walls). 20L are probably the best footprint wise for shrimp. But with my plan of only neo's I can't set up like 20x 20L's so I would daisy-chain together 10g.

I actually bought 10x 10g tanks from this old lady near me who used to raise and sell chilids. Got all 10 of them for $40 lol. They were dirty as hell since they were stored outside, spent like 5 hours cleaning all of them ._.


----------



## xenxes

Wow that's a good deal. How many 10gs do you have now? You have 3 set up? I just got my fairy shrimp eggs in the mail, no food ready... have an urge to just throw some into the betta tank and see what happens.


----------



## diwu13

I have 3 running and 8 in my closet empty haha. Also have an empty 2g and 5g :X. If my GF makes it into UConn for her PhD program she'll want to set up a small betta tank again (the 2g) and she wants her own shrimp tank (another 10g !).

Her shrimp tank will be sweet. Instead of the generic "natural" looking ones, she's gonna make a little neighborhood. Gonna buy like little fake houses, moss tiles as lawns, stem plants as a forest. It's gonna be pretty sweet haha.

Wait... throwing the fairy shrimp in the betta tank wouldn't feed the fairy shrimp...


----------



## xenxes

I meant see them grow / feed the betta, but yeah they'll probably have a higher chance of survival in the 20g. It's so densely planted now. Betta would probably just eat the eggs. I just redid my tree, was too hasty and got superglue everywhere.... I have moss superglued to my hands


----------



## diwu13

Ugh, getting super glue everywhere in my sink was bad enough :X! New pictures of the tree soon


----------



## xenxes

Here it is, a little oversaturated, but had to compensate for the haze (otherwise can't see the wood/moss). I'm happier with this setup, but still need to change some stuff. Have an order of marsilea minuta coming that I may plant in the little stone circle under the tree. Perimeter needs some more HC, and I'd like some short grass plants, recommendations? Dwarf hair?

Before:









After:









Also got some ramhorn snails, hitchhikers of the red root floaters I got in today. They don't eat plants do they? Only dead ones? Cause I have a lot of dead plant matter in there right now.

Can't wait to see your gf's tank, you should do a sponge bob theme in one of your tanks  Maybe turn one of your 10gs into a mini bikini bottom reef and get pom pomp and pretty shrimp!


----------



## diwu13

Wait... I don't notice a HUGE difference. Did you cut some branches off? I notice the tree is in a different place now >.>

Ramshorns won't eat live plants unless there's really NOTHING for them to eat. That'll only happen if you let the population get out of control!!!

It won't be a spongebob theme. It'll be like a village kinda thing. My friend already has a spongebob tank though haha. Her picture...


----------



## xenxes

Added a before high contrast shot to previous post. I cut off the bottom branch and glued it tot he back. Looks more like a tree and less of a bonsai. And yeah had to rotate everything, HC & rock moving was a PITA, the other side looked weird (and had some white-superglue on it).

I want to do something interesting with the flat area right under the tree, not sure yet.

And I meant a real sponge bob theme  Has to be marine, and has to have pavements and all the buildings in bikini bottom


----------



## diwu13

You know, I was actually flipping back and forth between the posts haha. You didn't let the super glue fully dry did you ._. Moss off your hands now?

I think you need a little swing hanging off that lower branch. Seriously.


----------



## xenxes

Lol I didn't let the tree dry before applying. It's on tight now though, after going through a whole bottle of crazy glue :icon_excl

That swing idea is awesome! I'm going to go make one now. Fish lines + a twig. I wonder if I can actually get it to swing with the current.


----------



## diwu13

I knew it lol. You're like me, super impatient when it comes to fish tank stuff (I procrastinate other things though haha).

And look at that, starting the swing RIGHT NOW too lol! Doesn't even need to swing in the current, it'll look awesome either way!


----------



## xenxes

Hmm looked better in my head, fish line doesn't weigh down. Think I moved the tree too, it's hard to keep it in the position I like.



















I'm done for today lol.


----------



## diwu13

Lol yea.. that looks really weird. The size is perfect though. Instead of using a twig, cut a piece of SS mesh off, or use some plant weights. Just something heavier to weight down the line ?


----------



## RichieE46

I tied a rock to the bottom of the tree...right underneath the base. Then I buried the rock under the substrate. 

Maybe that will help you


----------



## RichieE46

Theres pics if you follow the link in my sig.


----------



## xenxes

I may have to do that, I wrapped a small piece of SS mesh around the base of mine to weigh it down, but you can still see some of the metal if I move it around :/ There is also not enough of a base to tie it down, I have have to drill a hole or use some superglue.

Now to find a big enough rock.


----------



## diwu13

If you do attach rock onto the bottom of branch you should definitely use SS screws. You don't want to use superglue for something that's going to be the support.


----------



## xenxes

SS screw through a rock? What should I use as a base?


----------



## diwu13

slate is generally a common choice. You have to drill a starter hole through the slate though, and probably for wood as well.


----------



## xenxes

Umm like this? 

I'm not very handy, wouldn't punching a whole in it crack it? Where would I find a cheap slate + SS screws? All I do is Amazon  and it doesn't seem cost-effective in this instance.


----------



## diwu13

What the hell you can buy slate on amazon.com lol. I have no idea what kind of slate to use, but I know it is very common. You should be able to find some from a gravel company near you? SS screws you can definitely find in Home Depot or Lowe's.


----------



## xenxes

Lol I'm lazy and order everything online, will run to Home Depot when I get a chance. Just came back from a run, look @ what I found.










Apparently there was a large almond tree shedding leaves a block from my building, shouldn't have bought them online  Are they IAL? I can't tell. The seeds I saw on the ground were definitely almond seeds. Pic came out a little red, they range from bright red to deep purple (older dryer I think).

People were giving me weird looks as I walked home with a big bundle of leaves around my arms.


----------



## diwu13

Hm.. I'd only order online if I have too or if it's more expensive :\

I don't know if those are IAL, they just might be AL? Are you sure there are no pesticides in that tree? Test with a few shrimp or something. You have to let those fully dry out in an oven or something as well.


----------



## Romagjack

Love the tank. i would like to purchase the 9 gallon version if it would fit (including light) under the top of my roll top desk. The maximum height for would be 17.5" Would the light be adjustable that low or would I need to go for a smaller tank. Thanks.


----------



## xenxes

Tank is 14.1" tall, the tallest point of the light raises about 4.5" pushed all the way down... 18.6" which is over your specs  

The 6 gal is 10.8" + 4.5" (same light) = 15.3" which would fit. But you only save $10, I'd get the 9g and put it somewhere else


----------



## Romagjack

Thanks so much for measuring. I'll figure something out.


----------



## xenxes

Status Update: planted the marsilea minuta, stocked with 8 blue rili culls. No visible growth on moss tree, dying moss wall :/









FTS









Closeup

The Shrimp:


----------



## diwu13

I dunno those culls look pretty nice .

You took the swing off ? Any suspicions why the moss wall is dying?


----------



## xenxes

I cheated, here's a standard contrast shot:










I think the higher grades are much bluer/redder, but this particular shrimp does have the same patterns (not just specks or thin stripes). They did just get out of the kordon breather bag, so maybe color will deepen in a few days / when the juvies get bigger.

These shrimp seem to prefer Hikari algae tablets over the veggie sticks. What do you feed the shrimp? I have yet to buy any shrimp-specific food.

Don't know about moss wall, maybe I tied the fish lines too tight? Read some said it was too much light (doubtful). I think I used a mini-taiwan moss variety for the wall, the xmas moss I got from others were larger and looked nothing like it. I did dose some Flourish and Flourish Excel. Hoping it'll perk up, re-wrapping that thing will be a PITA.


----------



## diwu13

Haha. Darn, but still great looking shrimp. May I ask who you bought them off of and for how much? But they will 100% get darker after ~1-2weeks when they get accustomed to your tank. Your dark substrate will also help!

What do I feed my shrimp? I feed them blanched spinach (they got bored when I fed this too many times in a row lol), tetramin flakes (only once every other week), fluval shrimp pellets, jakes veggie sticks, blood worms (very rarely, once a month?), borneowild GROW. I try to spice up their dinner, something different every time I feed them. Which is once every 3-4 days, depending how they look.

Yea.. I doubt it's too much light. My moss just grows hair algae when that happens but doesn't die lol. You can't really tie moss "too tight" either. Those parts will jsut die off but as a whole it should be growing. Hm... dose easy on Excel, I heard some people had it killing their moss. I would dose like 3/4 strength Flourish, 1/2 strength Excel. And definitely not everyday. Just after a WC.


----------



## xenxes

Got it from ohbaby714 from this thread here. $3 per blue rili cull. $10 USPS Priority with heat pack ($8 without). He's in FL too so I got it in a day via priority  Came packaged with some riccia and xmas moss too! One of the shrimps actually molted in the bag it was shipped in. 

I only dose after a large w/c, always 1/2 Excel sometimes less. Not sure what it is, maybe shipping took so long, they were kinda mushy when I was tying them. Hoping for new growth. 

My shrimp rarely go after the fish flakes, and I don't want them sinking everywhere in the tank. I usually just do a tiny piece of veggie stick / algae wafer, sometimes a tiny piece of blanched zucchini. I really want to try swiss chard again. Have so much overgrowing in my planters, perhaps I'll feed the younger leaves or boil for longer.


----------



## diwu13

LMAO. I was expecting an amazon.com link for the swiss chard . But whenever I feed fish flakes I poke it down until it sinks. I find the shrimp don't really know it's feeding time if the food is floating at the top of the tank ._. How often are you feeding? I find they'll eat just about anything if they are hungry enough. Better to underfeed than overfeed!

What makes a great meal for ottos and snails alike is if you microwave some veggie until it's soft. Then let the water cool and dump both the water and the veggie into the tank.


----------



## xenxes

Funny you should mention it, I actually got the seeds off Amazon. They grow year round and serve as a backup vegetable when I forget to goto the grocery store 

You dump the veggie water into the tank!? Doesn't that pollute it? I'm feeding maybe every 2-3 days. There's so much dead plant matter and algae they eat. I hate feeding zucchini now, they get mushy and get all over the tank.


----------



## diwu13

Haha.  that's hilarious. I'm surprised you don't even order your groceries off of amazon.com or some other online site!

Yup! When I microwave some broccoli heads I'll just pour the water in as well. Lots of goodies in there for them to eat. I doubt it'll pollute it with the filter :X! Haven't had anything go wrong when doing that haha. Stuff goes wrong when I feed the fish flakes too many times in a row though .


----------



## xenxes

Some pop chips came in the mail today from Amazon, they were on Slickdeal's front page :/

And yeah too much fish flake hazes up my water, but surprisingly still no ammonia. My tap water has more ammonia than any of the tanks.

Oh, and in place of flakes I took your suggestion - smoosh a pond snail and drop it at their usual food location. They get protein and calcium, cause the smooshed shell gets eaten too.


----------



## Eldachleich

You have so many things I want....


----------



## xenxes

Lol like what? You already got dibs on my first batch of shrimp


----------



## xenxes

Any idea what to do about the sharp edges of the SS mesh? The otos are cutting their fins on them :/ I guess it wouldn't be a big deal if the moss actually grew out


----------



## Ozydego

What about splitting air tubing down one side and wrapping the edges


----------



## xenxes

Ozydego said:


> What about splitting air tubing down one side and wrapping the edges


Brilliant! I wrapped some IAL, but that won't last.


----------



## diwu13

xenxes said:


> Any idea what to do about the sharp edges of the SS mesh? The otos are cutting their fins on them :/ I guess it wouldn't be a big deal if the moss actually grew out


Those poor ottos. First you stick them in a non-cycled tank and now the SS mesh. You evil person 

No but seriously, seems SS walls are meant for snails and shrimp and not fish :\.


----------



## xenxes

It was cycled  it only uncycles when chicken poo comes up through the substrate.


----------



## cableguy69846

xenxes said:


> It was cycled  it only uncycles when chicken poo comes up through the substrate.


That should settle down. It may take a while though.


----------



## xenxes

Thanks cable  I'll wait it out.


----------



## epiphany

xenxes said:


> Brilliant! I wrapped some IAL, but that won't last.


You could probably silicone the edges, get aquarium safe silicone and put a little bit down the edge, enough to cover the sharp parts. Might be a more permanent solution to it.


----------



## diwu13

epiphany said:


> You could probably silicone the edges, get aquarium safe silicone and put a little bit down the edge, enough to cover the sharp parts. Might be a more permanent solution to it.


Yea.. but then you can't take the wall off for a trim


----------



## Gnomecatcher

It appears that we ordered out trees from the same person in Thailand. I definitely got the same wood as was in the picture of the auction. Too bad they gave you the wrong one.


----------



## xenxes

Yeah I ended up making it work, not sure if I feel like doing an eBay claim. 

On another note, most (I'd say 90%) of my RRF died off. Shipping curled up the leaves, and I didn't flatten them out when I threw them in the water, so most of the leaves drowned/turned to mush. Too lazy to fish them out, shrimp/snail food I suppose. The few in my 0.5g cube and betta tanks are thriving. They can't tolerate much water movement at all. I'll slowly repopulate from my good batch.


----------



## diwu13

Interesting about the RRF. My frogbit and hygroryza seem to be doing fine in the current from the AC20 output. I noticed that some parts were turning mushy that were coming in contact with the bubble curtain though. Hm... I might break down the bubble curtain but I don't know what I would put in it's place to keep up with the circulation in my tanks. Any thoughts? Since I have the AC20 all the way on the left.


----------



## xenxes

I think 1 AC20 is enough to circulate the entire 10g tank, you could always reposition a little centered. I don't know if the bubblers do much (especially in a heavily planted tank), I ended up taking my bubbler out because I didn't like the look. With the long tanks you definitely need 2 movement heads. When I had one the water was stagnant on the other end.

You could always just move the frogbits to the front side of the tank. Or better yet, go get some long lucky bamboo from Walmart and place them in the corners of your tank to trap the frogbits. Shrimp love climbing the shoots, apparently lots of microorganisms to eat. Also doubles as house plants to oxygenate your room  Any other stalky emersed plants will do too if lucky bamboo is too cliche.

The shrimp *love* this tank, they jump from branch to branch on the tree, to the wall, back to the tree, up to filter, then to the frogbits. The tree, wall, and frogbits probably tripled their grazing area.


----------



## diwu13

Hm...I would have to change around some stuff if I were to center the AC20 in the tank haha. I would have to cut the inlet shorter as well :\. I think with the AC20 off to one side the circulation is a but lopsided. I don't really know though as I've always had the bubble curtains in.

The bubble curtains do provide a TON of water circulation though. I only have a 48" one in my 10g moss tank and the water makes a "OO" pattern. You can clearly see it with the little moss bits floating around


----------



## xenxes

The shrimps are fine with that much circulation?

A few closeups, not the best quality


----------



## diwu13

With the AC20 on full they don't seem to mind at all. The adults can easily swim against the current. Little babies and juvi's have a hard time, but are able to crawl on the ground against current. I've also seen little shrimp standing on the sponge prefilter without getting sucked in. So no problems there. They also swim through the bubble curtain almost all the time. You can see little air bubbles trapped in their swimmerets


----------



## diwu13

Any growth on that tree?


----------



## xenxes

Not really :/ some bright green specks coming out so maybe soon, it had to die off a little before it comes back









Few days ago









Now

I took out clippings in back, going to just do HC floor when I get more growing out of my 0.5g nursery


----------



## diwu13

Looks like some green stuff is getting caught in that corner filter?


----------



## xenxes

Yeah dead moss and tiny HC shoots that get uprooted, inverts eat it so no need to clean it myself  I'm trying to turn most tanks maintenance-free... need ostracod eggs for the 20g to establish a colony to feed the fish :/


----------



## xenxes

Want to see what *is* growing?


----------



## diwu13

Why not throw an otto in there. Oh wait they all died  jk jk


----------



## xenxes

I have 1 in there, they don't eat GSA  That is GSA? Probably some brown mixed in.


----------



## diwu13

Is that GSA? I didn't know . Think nerites will eat that?


----------



## xenxes

So there's a lot of little critters growing in this tank:

















Water flea? Daphnia? Ostracod? Can't tell, too small to capture even with macro + 10x.

















Lots of these clear worm things too...

























Lastly some shrimp, unedited


----------



## cableguy69846

This should help. Good lookin shrimp too.roud:


----------



## diwu13

First two pics are definitely copepods/cyclops. The two worm pictures are probably nemotodes or something. Not planaria at least right?

Those are nice macro shots ( ﾟ∀ﾟ)ｱ


----------



## xenxes

Thanks! I did see some Limpets too, at least all of them are mostly harmless. 

I also saw a flea-looking shrimp with mantis-like-appendages in my 20g, it was small, clear/white, jumped around like a tick in the gravel, the head was shrimp-like.

Looked like 







but with mantis-looking arms. Can't quite figure out what it is.


Oh yeah!


----------



## diwu13

First picture is of a scud. They are inverts as well and harmless. Some people said they eat moss though :\. How did you catch it? And how large was it?

Congrats on the berried rili! That is a huge clutch of eggs.


----------



## ucantimagine

How did you get all those critters in your tank? lol


----------



## xenxes

No it looks like that, I couldn't catch it, way too small and jumpy, couldn't even snap a pic :/ Looks similar to a scud, but has scythes like a mantis. Combine:

Body









+

Scythe









= ? (lol!)

No not a mantis-shrimp, freshwater, small.

I guess they came with plants, or the eggs were in the dirt I used. I should have made the shrimp tank inert instead of trying to establish some kind of ecosystem, predatory fish would also eat the shrimplets.


----------



## xenxes

Confused about shrimp eggs. So first they develop a saddle, then after impregnation develop eggs and the saddle disappears? I saw a RCS in my 20g with only 2-3 eggs  Did she drop them, or is it developing, or is she just infertile?


----------



## diwu13

Saddle = unfertilized eggs in the ovary. If you look closely you can see if the eggs are developed in there as it'll turn chunky instead of a solid blob. After a shrimp mates, the eggs get fertilized and travel through their body into their carriage.

If you don't see any more saddle, and the shrimp is not berried, chances are she dropped the eggs. This happens a lot with shrimp newly introduced into a tank and will continue happening for as little as 1 week to upwards of 3 months. Just depends really, completely random. I haven't seen an infertile shrimp yet haha, unless they are still young.


----------



## xenxes

Well this one has.. exactly 2 eggs, and no saddle. Ohwell, twins!

Also can't find the berried rili  looked high and low, might have squished it under a rock when I was planting.


----------



## diwu13

Just name her "underachiever".

How fast did you put the rock down? When I put 3"x3" moss tiles down they all dart out of the way. I was originally worried about squashing them too but the rush of water out from under should push them out.


----------



## xenxes

I saw her last night, appeared out of nowhere. Maybe the moss is getting thick enough that they could completely submerge in it.


----------



## xenxes

I see no baby shrimp around the tank, all eggs gone. I think I have carnivorous ostracods in the tank, or something that looks like it. Saw a 0.5" flea looking thing jumping around the bottom of the tank going under gravel.

Another 5-Day Growth Update:

























Note that I siliconed around the moss wall, no/minimal growth. Tree is the only thing growing. Ignore the 2 LEDs, that was just to show someone how they clipped on.


----------



## diwu13

Hm... how did you silicone on the wall again? You drained the tank or something? No idea why the moss isn't growing on the wall but it is on the tree. That means there isn't a nutrient issue or anything.


----------



## xenxes

I took out the wall sheet and siliconed the edges so fish won't cut themselves, left it over night to dry but covered in wet paper towels. I hope it's just very slow growth, mini-xmas/taiwan moss. Whatever it is


----------



## diwu13

Oh right. You mentioned the ottos getting their fins cut. I see, so you didn't actually silicon it to the glass . Could you post the amazon link to where you ordered your silicon lol? I doubt you picked it up in person ! haha.

Hm... in my experience moss always grows enough that you can see it. I always see bright green nubs, even in the moss tank.


----------



## diwu13

xenxes, does this picture kinda look like the thing you had in your tank?
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/s...ntipede-type-bug-shrimp-tank.html#post1721215


----------



## xenxes

Yeah! Amphipods, I have 2 different species, I think both http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gammaridea. One is definitely









Silicone calk: this or this. They're easier to use with a caulking gun, but I just squeezed the tube while holding down the bottom.


----------



## diwu13

Dang my caulking gun is at my mom's house in NJ. So those two silicone you listed are "safe" for aquariums? They never say specifically, and aren't you supposed to let those dry like 2 weeks or something lol. And not overnight ?


----------



## xenxes

It says 24 hours on the tube. I touched it and it was hard. Nothing in the tank has died. It becomes inert when it solidifies. I got the "premium" but there was no need for my purposes, I think it might be a stronger bond for other purposes, like holding together a fixture. What do you need silicone for?


----------



## Eldachleich

Maybe hope they hatched?
I have no idea what silicone is for... I'm not very handy lol..
I just use it in my tanks!
I hope you get babies... blue rilis are so cool
I found another shrimp I want though.
Already planning a two gallon..lol


----------



## xenxes

Lol what shrimp?  How many different types do you have and where are you getting them from???

I'm trying to get an order of opae ulas in for the 6g. Brackish water tank almost setup, light should be here in 2 days!


----------



## Eldachleich

xenxes said:


> Lol what shrimp?  How many different types do you have and where are you getting them from???
> 
> I'm trying to get an order of opae ulas in for the 6g. Brackish water tank almost setup, light should be here in 2 days!


Sulawesi shrimp..
Its a debate between harlequin, cardinal, or yellow nose.. I'm leaning towards cardinal or yellow nose though.
The harlequin, while beautiful, is beginning to remind me of bacon...
And I don't like bacon...
Harlequin - http://guitarfish.org/images/posts/sulawesi_shrimp/5.jpg
Cardinal - http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg708/scaled.php?server=708&filename=chantrangresize.jpg&res=medium
Yellownose - http://cdn.sulitstatic.com/images/2...0e4cb021ed9b250f37a3535b75c86349f58a20002.jpg
I'm figuring out everything I need for them now.. lol
Apparently they are sensitive.. Hoping I can find a future source for local F1 babies.
Also stalking your blue rili's 
I found out my new tv stand, which has cube shelves, can hold up to 30 pounds in weight on each shelf.
And what would be cuter in cube shelves than cube shaped shrimp nano's..
I want a blue rili tank lol..
Gonna drive my friend nuts..
She thinks the two that are in my bedroom are too much already.
I really wanted to try opae ula shrimp!! I just shy away instantly form salt or brackish water lol...
I cant wait to see how yours turns out.
I have... blue pearls, yellow, ghost, and blue pearl culls.. lol
Not too many... 
But who knows... I've officially caught MTS.. I might end up with tons..


----------



## xenxes

Sulawesi shrimp are hard to keep, requires precise pH and hardness?

Opae ula is much easier, once you get the gravity right you just top off with water. Maybe add more salt once in a while due to salt creep. Hydrometer costs $3 @ Petco. I got Instant Ocean salt for maybe $6 for a big container.

I don't even know how much weight my shelves can support... Hope they don't just collapse one of these days.

Lol I found the berried female again, still has eggs. She's sneaky. The shrimp aren't very blue so it's hard to find them on the moss tree.


----------



## diwu13

xenxes said:


> It says 24 hours on the tube. I touched it and it was hard. Nothing in the tank has died. It becomes inert when it solidifies. I got the "premium" but there was no need for my purposes, I think it might be a stronger bond for other purposes, like holding together a fixture. What do you need silicone for?


I might have to reseal some tanks in the future lol. So I like to get this information ahead of time.


----------



## Blue Devereaux

*Heater*

xenxes,

What heater, if any, do you use in this tank? I am setting up my 9.2 Aquastyle tomorrow. I bought an Eheim Jager 50w heater for it. Of course, it looks huge and ugly in it. My main concern with this tank is I can't figure out a way how to have the cover on it and use a heater as the cord gets in the way. Any advice on this would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Blue Devereaux


----------



## xenxes

I don't have one, my apartment never gets cold 

You can run the cord by the back left where the cover is slanted, that or you can run it through the finger hole used to lift the lid (which would be unsightly). Back corner where the filter is would be your best bet, run the cord behind the corner filter.

I think the 50W Elite is much smaller, good up for 10g (there's also a 100W one for similar price). But I don't have much experience with heaters. Bigger = more even heat distribution?


----------



## Blue Devereaux

Thanks for the response and link to the Elite heater. I just ordered it. It appears to have a flat cord which should make it easier to use in the corner slot of the lid than the thick, rounded cord on my Eheim Jager heater. I probably won't use the lid that often, but I do want the option to use it.


----------



## xenxes

The corner filter doesn't exactly fit snug against the corner, you can definitely wedge a flat cord behind it. Placing the heater near the filter will probably get the warmer temperature distributed faster.

Let me know how it goes! Start a journal?


----------



## kcartwright856

I am very much in love with that moss tree. I wonder if I can find a suitable branch to replicate it!


----------



## xenxes

Hehe, twigs + superglue! Make sure it dries before entering water, otherwise it turns white.


----------



## xenxes

Tank Progression Post:































--- scrapped moss tree, restart ---


----------



## Eldachleich

The tree is starting to look awesome though!!!!


----------



## xenxes

Yeah, trimming nightmare soon


----------



## Eldachleich

xenxes said:


> Yeah, trimming nightmare soon


Well when you do trim I'll totally take some of that moss!!!
I'm lacking in plants!!
I'm gonna hunt tomorrow to see if I can find anything I dont have...
We don't get much variety here...


----------



## kcartwright856

xenxes said:


> Hehe, twigs + superglue! Make sure it dries before entering water, otherwise it turns white.


Oh, wow! I didn't know that there was a way to get around that. How long did you let yours dry?

I need to take a walk down the river now and make a moss tree. This is driving me nuts. It's so beautiful!


----------



## xenxes

kcartwright856 said:


> Oh, wow! I didn't know that there was a way to get around that. How long did you let yours dry?
> 
> I need to take a walk down the river now and make a moss tree. This is driving me nuts. It's so beautiful!


Lol I didn't, ended up in white chunks I had to scrape off. I would say maybe 12 hours. But I cut/glued my branch after I submerged and tied moss on it and decided I didn't like the ugly bonsai.

TY, but not as pretty as these 


























To make a good tree scape, you should have a white-ish blue diffusion background to mimic sky, a low creeping carpet plant, hills and rocks for a more dramatic effect. It also works better in a longer tank because more negative space.

I just really wanted a lot of moss to create more functional space for the shrimp


----------



## Adkins.its

Those are some motivational tanks! 

I'm currently piecing my setup together. I have a Mr. Aqua 11.4g and setting it up to do a tree scape. I hope I can get my proportions down really well. I'm gonna try hard to make it killer.


----------



## Eldachleich

xenxes said:


> Lol I didn't, ended up in white chunks I had to scrape off. I would say maybe 12 hours. But I cut/glued my branch after I submerged and tied moss on it and decided I didn't like the ugly bonsai.
> 
> TY, but not as pretty as these
> 
> 
> To make a good tree scape, you should have a white-ish blue diffusion background to mimic sky, a low creeping carpet plant, hills and rocks for a more dramatic effect. It also works better in a longer tank because more negative space.
> 
> I just really wanted a lot of moss to create more functional space for the shrimp


Love those tanks!!
Always wanted to do one.
I read those guys entire journals.
The first and last picture are actually the same tree in the same tank.
The last picture was his first scape. He decided he was not happy with it and rescaped it into the first picture you posted.
If I recall the tank itself is quite small and almost cube shaped.
Not a cube but close. He has some farther way shots where you can see the stuff around it for size comparison.... Always wanted to doa tree aquascape. But never found the right wood.


----------



## Robotponys

WOW! Those are great, and yours is starting to look even more awesome now!


----------



## xenxes

TY 

Was looking at the tank today, and there is definitely too much debris from the dead parts of the floaters and moss I threw in. Counted maybe 50 nematodes in the water after I did a partial w/c (which dislodged more particles on the substrate). Harmless but unsightly to see them wiggle through the water and get blown away by the filter.

I got tired of sucking them out, so threw in 4 platy fry who made short of them, very entertaining to watch. Think I'll leave them in there for a while, don't think a 0.5" platy fry could catch baby shrimp, they're fairly slow and stick to mid-water.


----------



## diwu13

Might take you up on that offer with the platties. Even some fish to eat the nemotodes but leave most of the shrimplets alone would be fine by me.


----------



## xenxes

Okay, just be warned--no experience with shipping livestock. Are fish heatpacks different than ones @ the sporting goods store, lol? We might want to wait till it's a little warmer where you are and for the fry to fatten up. 

How many did you want and what color? Have 4 almost-wild looking ones white/gold-hue, some almost all black, and various black/white patterns. Have about 10 available, but I see 2 of my original females are pregnant again. 

Also, I started 2 Walstad-type 1g vases on the sides of my 20g today


----------



## diwu13

Haha yea the heat packs for animals last like 40 to 72 hours whereas the sporting goods store ones last ~3hours . We can wait for them to get older and the weather warmer. I don't get it. I checked back in the tank 5 hours later and there's barely any nemotodes in the water column again.... I can only guess they either got sucked into the filter or hid in the moss again.

Do you think the panda platties will eat shrimp? I know you have said you haven't seen them go for the shrimp at all. Do you think they will do fine with only two of them? Or do they need buddies like ottos do?

For the vases did you just add them in the 20g journal?


----------



## xenxes

> Their numerical dominance, often exceeding more than 1 million individuals per square meter and accounting for about 80% of all individual animals on earth, their diversity in lifestyles and their presence at various trophic levels point at an important role in many ecosystems.


The nematodes are probably hiding in the substrate, I wouldn't worry about it. 

Platies are not schooling, if you want 2 I'll send you 4, in case 2 die lol. The 4 babies I have in the 9g have been scouring the moss and floor for nematodes and ostracods. They'll definitely eat what can fit in their mouths. They can probably catch a just-hatched baby shrimp unaware (even the fry), I wouldn't keep them inside your shrimp tanks for long if there isn't sufficient cover.


----------



## diwu13

Hm... do you think there's enough cover in my shrimp tanks? I don't have like jungles of moss, but there is quite a bit of moss.


----------



## xenxes

6-day update since last, some more growth on the tree, it's getting infested with green hair algae with the additional light. 

Added in 4 platy fry (clear/wild color ones) to combat nematodes. They obliterated all the little worms, cyclops, daphnia, and are constantly scouring the moss & substrate. I'll try to take them out before my baby shrimps hatch.


----------



## CPD

xenxes said:


> *Current Status (2/20/12)*
> 
> Shrimp habitat: moss tree + moss wall + frog bits = triple the grazing space!


Where did you get that piece of wood from?! I must have one similar!!


----------



## thefisherman

xenxes said:


> 6-day update since last, some more growth on the tree, it's getting infested with green hair algae with the additional light.
> 
> Added in 4 platy fry (clear/wild color ones) to combat nematodes.


xenxes man that tree is growing crazy.. what are you feeding that thing?! :O


- thefisherman


----------



## xenxes

CPD said:


> Where did you get that piece of wood from?! I must have one similar!!


Evil bay :/ from a seller in Thailand.

Just be warned you may not get what you see, I ended up cutting and superglueing several branches to get it to look similar to a tree.




thefisherman said:


> xenxes man that tree is growing crazy.. what are you feeding that thing?! :O
> 
> 
> - thefisherman


Lol I feed it light, dirt, and water  In hindsight the moss was a bad idea, got it as "mixed moss" but I'm sure it's the java that's growing fast. The wall is definitely a mini-Taiwan moss (very very slow growing).


----------



## diwu13

Tree is doing great xenxes. I need to combat nemotodes soon as well! Why don't you like java?


----------



## diwu13

How's everything going growing in this tank xenxes? I know you've been busy


----------



## xenxes

Time for a trim?


----------



## CrazyCatPeekin

Oh, I think the tree looks great! I wanted to try a tree but it just wasn't working out with the combinations of tanks and wood that I had. I do like yours though!


----------



## diwu13

WHOAA that tree has so much growth!!! You didn't dose ferts or anything right? The moss wall not so much haha.

What moss is this again?


----------



## xenxes

Mixed moss

The wall has a lot of growth (taiwan moss), just outwards, not horizontal. Too lazy to take it out to repatch it.










Can see it better from the side.

I think I dosed Flourish once, and Excel a handful to try to get rid of the hair algae (no luck).

The water looks cloudy-greenish, but TDS is 230 and levels are all normal. A lot of particles get trapped in the moss.


----------



## diwu13

Gotta say your tree turned out really nicely. How do you feel about how lush it is? Trimming the tree is gonna be hard though, not sure how people go about doing that.


----------



## gnod

nicely done! i have a smaller version of a tree look in my 2.5G with fissidens. 
well i had 2, but one of them i restarted because i didn't like the flame moss look and now going with fissidens for all.

oh and, i HATE hair algae. hope you treated it and got rid of them.
i hate how it seriously gets all over everything freaking bit of the moss especially


----------



## xenxes

Looks like a slight trim, but I removed ~3 golfballs of moss from the tree. Also cut off a little stump.










Just stuck my hand in and yanked out the tops. Scissors were no good, bits everywhere.


----------



## wicca27

i so want to try a tree but never have found a good branch to use. all my tanks a kinda small about 5 gal. any ideas on where to get some driftwood for a moss tree. also what kind of moss do you use for the tree?


----------



## diwu13

Whatcha doing with those golfballs?


----------



## xenxes

Threw it in the 20g to replace the dead moss lol. 

Wiccia--wood from ebay, using mixed/java moss


----------



## xenxes

Added 10+ red/blue rilis to the gene pool










Trimmed tree, water is cloudy green, I shook the tree and a bunch of crap came out, tests 0/0/0/<5, ~200tds though.


----------



## diwu13

2nd picture doesn't show up.

Looks like you have mini ramshorns in your tanks as well. And some other type of small snail. Are they annoying for you at all?

Where'd you get the 10 new rili's from if you don't mind me asking? Your substrate also looks super clean haha.


----------



## gowfan05

xenxes said:


> Yeah! Amphipods, I have 2 different species, I think both http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gammaridea. One is definitely


sorry, I don't mean to jack your thread, but were you able to rid your tank of this pest???


----------



## xenxes

diwu13 said:


> 2nd picture doesn't show up.
> 
> Looks like you have mini ramshorns in your tanks as well. And some other type of small snail. Are they annoying for you at all?
> 
> Where'd you get the 10 new rili's from if you don't mind me asking? Your substrate also looks super clean haha.


Most of them stay that tiny, unless I feed an absurd amount of food. I only have 1 grown ramshorn, the bladder snails are that size full size. I thought about getting a puffer tank setup, free fish food 

All the shrimp are from ohbaby714 here on the forums, the red rilis also have blue genes. I did get a few all-reds that looked like baby PFRs with the batch that I threw in the 5g. 

My substrate looks clean? Sarcasm is hard to detect over the internet 



gowfan05 said:


> sorry, I don't mean to jack your thread, but were you able to rid your tank of this pest???


Not hijacking  Never got rid of them, they bred. They're entirely harmless, mostly they keep to the substrate to scavenge / keep it clean. I saw a few mating and turkey bastered some out to feed the bettas. 

Problem I see with a lot of aquarists is they feel the need to micromanage the tank 24/7. I learned to let go a little, let the tank balance itself out. As long as it's not a fish parasite or something hideous swarming the side of the tank I'll let it go. Again, free live food!


----------



## diwu13

Yea your substrate does look clean. Like... black sand all the way and not with worms or what not in it haha. Your moss tree is looking amazing as well man. We should do a moss trade sometime!


----------



## xenxes

Lol I think it looks pretty dirty, but worms in the substrate actually liquefy solid waste.


----------



## xenxes




----------



## freph

Green water is alright. It'll pass. I never found anything too horrible about it to begin with and it's great for the shrimp/snails/microfauna. That moss tree is hoooooooooot.  Can't wait to see the HC grow in and complete the scape. Nice shrimp, too!


----------



## xenxes

Thx  someone mentioned to leave the water as is, up the photo cycle, and wait it out. I doubled the light and increased to 16 hours a day. Hoping it dies down soon so I can actually see my shrimp.


----------



## diwu13

You should cut down the light if you wanna get rid of the green water I thought?

Also.. if you ever decide to trim that moss we should trade or something !


----------



## Ozydego

Green water thrives on light and new water with new nutrients, try a 2 day blackout and make sure you keep the photoperiod 8 hours or less, I had a betta tank that was near a window and it got around 10 hours a day... Green soup and not knowing better I kept changing water... Every day, and the next day, green again.... Moved it out of the light and let it sit for 2 days and it started to get less green, kept it away from the window and used artificial light for shorter periods and I finally got through it... If the light is not strong enough, it does not help to compensate by leaving the light on longer. Doubling the light is good, doubling the photoperiod not so much


----------



## xenxes

I don't like blackouts because the plants will also suffer. I'm thinking if I accelerated the light and photo period, the algae bloom will burn itself out faster, i.e. suck up the excess nutrients and the tank will balance. 

Too often I read about aquarists pulling their hair out doing w/cs and dosing chemicals, adding uv filters, etc. only to cause other problems. Think I'll go the other route and do nothing 

Water parameters are perfect, fauna are healthy, I'm going to wait a week or two w/o water changes and see if it takes its course.


----------



## Greedy

Dang sorry about your bloom, you tree was looking really nice.


----------



## diwu13

I think a blackout for 2 days won't actually harm the plants at all. If you think about it, when it rains the clouds will block the sun for possibly 2+ days at a time right?


----------



## alfalfa

diwu13 said:


> If you think about it, when it rains the clouds will block the sun for possibly 2+ days at a time right?


Clouds cause a complete solar blackout where you live?


----------



## xenxes

Decided, I'm going to scrap this tank and redo it! 

Why? I want to plant more densely to increase water quality / tank stability. The moss tree blocks out a lot of light.

Thinking of doing a driftwood trunk against the corner and planting densely around it. Also ended up buying daphnia to combat the algae, and use as fish food.


----------



## diwu13

How's this redo going?


----------



## xenxes

No wood yet, waiting on that, and my daphnia culture from drtran. Water is a deep deep green still


----------



## xenxes

Ripped the moss tree out, put in 2 pieces of driftwood, did not turn out like I envisioned. Water still green, hoping daphnia colony grows.


















On the plus side, I have a lot of shrimp in here now! Maybe it won't look so bad after the water clears and the stems in the back grow out.


----------



## diwu13

Nice TV set up you got there . I would say nice scape but honestly I can't see it in the green water. Why do you have the double lights clipped on? Is that for the daphina culture?

Oh yea.. remember that plastic mesh I asked you about earlier? So cheap at walmart. Same size you get on amazon for $4 but you get 3 sheets for $2.15 !!!! So I can literally cover all 4 sides of my 10g tanks with moss walls and still have left over lol.


----------



## xenxes

Too late I already ordered it :/

Ohwell, gas to Walmart > $4. I'm really starting to hate this tank, so little you can do with a vertical space.


----------



## wicca27

charcole filter with green water will work and cut down on light. i had a tank out side on my back porch last summer and it went green on me took a couple months for it to go away but did finally go away on its own


----------



## FisheriesOmen

how did you get it ssoo green in the water....I actually really like it


----------



## xenxes

Lol, overfeed, too much light, and not enough plants. I'm going to give the daphnia a chance to grow before going nuclear on this tank (UV, filter, massive w/cs).


----------



## Ozydego

On my green water tank, I even rescaped down to the substrate, but did not boil, disinfect the other stuff including plants, the green water was back in 2 days, it thrives on new water and light, if you want to go the massive w/c route, I can't stop you, but I can try to save you some time. I even bought drops for the tank that didnt work either. Honestly the only thing that worked for me was NO water change and blackout for 2-3 days... But in the end, it's up to you


----------



## xenxes

How heavily planted was the tank? I stuffed every bit of clipping I could yesterday and the water looks like it's clearing up today, still on my 12 hour light cycle.


----------



## Ozydego

Good point... Actually one huge crypt was the only live plant... Definitely not stuffed


----------



## Eldachleich

I hate green water.
I get it in my window betta bowl.
working on fixing that. Maybe add in a screen above the tank to cut the lighting down?
Its a tough thing to fix. Not as bad as hair algae in my experience.
Those are some sexy rili...
When they have babies please let me buy some..
I think they would be perfect in my 6.6 gallon


----------



## xenxes

Water cleared up in 3 days, no w/c, just the power of plants  I'd like to get some red plants in here eventually, thinking telanthera. I doubt my l. repens or grandulosa gets very red in a low-tech.


























Shrimp, I had no idea blue/red rili mixes could result in a yellow shrimp...


































One of the yellows actually had red patterns, yellow-rili? I'll see if I can find it and get a photo later.

The rilis aren't that sexy, only 2 are fully patterned, most are just clearish/slightly blue


----------



## diwu13

Hm.. that's interesting. No reason to get a yellow one...


----------



## Eldachleich

Its the blue... Occasionally my blue pearls throw out yellow or amber shrimp.
Most of the time they turn blue as they age but some stay that way..
I hear it happens alot with blue neo's.
And chocolate ones...

Well I think their sexy. I still want some when theres enough lol..
I like the new rescape.. Have you thought about some reddish crypts?


----------



## xenxes

I have at least 2 yellow shrimp in here, probably more. Should I take them out? Wish I had another tank for yellow shrimp, maybe just a vase. Eldach--do you want the all blues, or rili patterns only? They're not that blue, more like clearish-blue under a tank light. I may have enough of those soon, saw another berried.

I'm only using crypts in low light, this is a high light tank, I got a bunch of rotala indica and ludwigia peruenses today, also 3 CPDs! (2 male 1 female I think), and 2 more horned nerites.


























Believe the one on left is female, right is male

I should have gotten 2 more nerites for my tanks to balance algae growth, and 3 more CPDs, no idea they would so small even in a 9g, can barely find them in the tank.


----------



## diwu13

I think it's the other way around looking at their back shape?









Also, I would take out the yellows if you got more than enough rilis in there. Throw them in the balcony planter!


----------



## xenxes

Lol, don't want to waste perfectly good yellow shrimp in the balcony planter - cherry culls go in there  I'm going to redo my 6g with fresh now this is done, and put the yellows there. Whatever opae are left will go in the 5g with the PFRs. 

Yea I have 2 male 1 female CPDs, the dominant male is pretty aggressive and nips at the other, so far no fin damage, but I'm going to get a few more when I can make the drive up to the LFS.


----------



## Eldachleich

Sexy tank..
Sexy fish.

I love those CPD!!
Funny little fish.. territorial but totally loves being with its own kind.
We should get ours together for a party!
Watch our dominant males duke it out.

Well I'll take any of the shrimp really. I'm a big fan of the light icy blue colour.
Though one with a red rili pattern and a blue middle wouldnt go amiss 

Were gonna end up with similar stocking lol.
I plan on sticking the shrimps I get from you in my 6.6 gallon with my CPD.. Which I also just bought 2 horned nerites for lol... 

I love getting weird shrimp colours. Its fun to see what you could do with them!

How many CPD are you planning on having?


----------



## xenxes

I think 8 CPDs would be good, I read they were easy to breed though, so maybe I'll try with the pair I have now. Wish I was lucky like you and had masses of corydoras eggs spewing in all directions in my tank. I don't like my pygmaeus anymore, just a waste of space, never see them.

Are you just doing CPDs + shrimp in the 6.6g? I think you should try to understock a bit, unless you want to get another HOB filter  I know it's hard to do and I always have to hold myself back from buying new fish, I really want a dwarf puffer but they have to stay in their own tanks.

I think in 2-4 weeks I'll have enough juvies big enough to send you a mixed batch for shipping.


----------



## xenxes

Went up to the Planted Aquarium Store again today and grabbed 5 more CPDs (8 total now, 4 female 4 male), and 2 more nerites for the 20g to eat bba. 










Looks a little overstocked now, think 6 would have been better.










Water getting murky again, I think dripping yeast in here for the daphnia colony was a bad idea. Well, figured out an easy way to create green water


----------



## diwu13

"Looks overstocked". Can't see fish due to green water


----------



## xenxes

diwu13 said:


> "Looks overstocked". Can't see fish due to green water


Bad picture  it looks crowded when all 8 are out and about, with however many shrimp are swimming around.

















If you look at the pics side by side I got a good bit of plant growth in 2-3 days. The green star repens on the two sides anyway, the ludwigia and rotala are adjusting.


----------



## xenxes

TDS meter now reads 161 in this tank, and about 280 in the others. They were all at around 300 at one point, haven't done any w/cs, weird.

The waste gets liquefied and used up?


----------



## diwu13

Suppose so. All the dissolved poop and what not gets used by the plants and then gassed off as O2 and CO2.


----------



## xenxes

Culling all the shrimp with no red markings, they look transparent blue, some yellow-ish under normal light. 










With flash on they all look pretty yellow.










Going in the 6g after it recycles.


----------



## Eldachleich

xenxes said:


> I think 8 CPDs would be good, I read they were easy to breed though, so maybe I'll try with the pair I have now. Wish I was lucky like you and had masses of corydoras eggs spewing in all directions in my tank. I don't like my pygmaeus anymore, just a waste of space, never see them.
> 
> Are you just doing CPDs + shrimp in the 6.6g? I think you should try to understock a bit, unless you want to get another HOB filter  I know it's hard to do and I always have to hold myself back from buying new fish, I really want a dwarf puffer but they have to stay in their own tanks.
> 
> I think in 2-4 weeks I'll have enough juvies big enough to send you a mixed batch for shipping.


CPD are tiny.. I love them..
I've noticed since they are such darty fish though, that if you get one too many. You look like you tank has waaaaaay too many.
Dunno why.
Well not many more eggs now...
After that weird mass die off I had.. My pygmaeus and leopard cories still breed every other water change or so though.
I hardly see my pygmaeus either. Mainly when they go nuts breeding. But I feel bad their numbers have fallen. I want at least 5 so they feel more comfortable.
The leopard cories are going in the tub pond sometime soon. I plan on trying to get at least a 20 gallon for them before winter. 
Which honestly doesnt have much more floor space than my current tank. lol.. I have grand dreams and no money.

I'm an overstocker... I've learned to accept that now.
I like to think I'm not that bad though...

I plan on shrimps, 5 CPD, and 11 - 13 dwarf cories. I'm gonna bump the pygmies up to 5. And the rest will be habrosus.
I have one habrosus left in my 5.5 gallon now. They all slowly spiraled and died. I also believe its the original one I bought from the LFS.. I'm gonna feed it and whatnot, leave is for a while. If it proves itself healthy It goes in the 6.6. At which point I will work on stocking more.
Which is overstocked. But the huge footprint gives the illusion of being properly stocked lol..
I actually already have two HOBs on it!! The aquaclear 20. and a Tetra Whisper something or other. I believe its rated for 10 gallons.
It came in my 5.5 gallon kit. It fits on the right side and the aquaclear fits on the left. Very discreet.
It's for the extra filtration as well as flow.
This tank is awesome (I would seriously buy it all over again) But getting good flow is hard. Its so long and thin that getting water to flow through the whole thing is near impossible. So I added more flow on the dead side. 

LOL!!!
I totally want a pea puffer!!
Been wanting one. I was thinking of making my 5.5 a puffer tank.
Also! I am living my puffer fantasy vicariously through a friend.
Got my friend one for her birthday.
I bought her the Evolve 4 gallon, a heater, black sand, rootabs (dirst in a tank freaks her out), crypts, and some mopani wood.
It's cycling right now.. But once its done in goes an oto and a puffer.
Teehee.. Get one!
Actually I almost put one in my 6.6 gallon. Decided against it.
Dunno why.
Sounds sweet. Can't wait for some shrimps!!!!!!
I might have to hold off till there is more plants in my tank though. I need to build up some Biofilm and whatnot..
I dig this tank man. I dig all your tanks.. You have that natural eye for this..


----------



## Eldachleich

Have you put in some red cherries?
I was just looking around and alot of breeders pair their rili's with fire red cherry shrimp to get a nice solid red pattern.


----------



## xenxes

PFRs, I have maybe 3 I accidently threw in with my cherries (Sakura though). I may throw some in after I cull out the remaining all-clear/blues (got about 45 so far that I threw in the 6g).


----------



## xenxes




----------



## @[email protected]

looks good. but some WCs might help lessen the green water.


----------



## xenxes

I'm kinda conflicted, if I lower the light, the ludwigia peruensis won't get red. If I don't, my water stays green. Water changes don't help much, if anything it makes it worse since I'm replenishing silicone in the water.

I've been throwing in daphnia into the breeder box but they keep swimming out (and get eaten by the CPDs). Maybe a mesh bag? Don't have anything that finely sewn..


----------



## Ozydego

Would RO/DI water still have the nutrients that the green water thrives on? Maybe worth picking up a 5 gallon jug @ the store and use it and refills for a little while... On this one I am not sure as far as what's still in it, just throwing out ideas..


----------



## xenxes

Ozydego said:


> Would RO/DI water still have the nutrients that the green water thrives on? Maybe worth picking up a 5 gallon jug @ the store and use it and refills for a little while... On this one I am not sure as far as what's still in it, just throwing out ideas..


That's a good idea thanks


----------



## @[email protected]

see if you can rent a UV sterilizer. that will solve your GW problem. 
i had GW in one of my setups. it never got really bad, but it was there for over a month and then i went out and bought a UV sterilizer (couldnt rent), and after the initial course of use i shot it off and the GW never came back.


----------



## xenxes

I think it's actually the tannin residue from the wood now, the water is more yellow than green. Did a partial change this morning:










Never did boil that thing.

Shrimp:


----------



## diwu13

Rili's always have saddles that look like brains to me. Yup. I wonder how your babies will survive with the CPDs.


----------



## xenxes

Lot of ground cover, CPDs go after the slower daphnia in the water column


----------



## diwu13

So you haven't seen them go after the adults or juvi's at all?


----------



## xenxes

Nope, but I'm sure they would if one popped in front of them that could fit in their mouths. They tend to stick to mid-water, sometimes they go to the substrate to chase after a daphnia. They're 1" fully grown, similar size to your rasboras.

Threw in ~1k daphnia and turned off filter, let's see what happens -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKW2gOGHK7g&feature=youtu.be


----------



## diwu13

Wow they look so skitterish in the video. Never knew they moved like that (never had any myself, only copepods). My guess is you'll have really fat CPD's.

Btw how are you trying to spawn the CPD's? Did you collect the eggs from this tank and put them in the other? I think I saw some mosquito rasbora eggs as well, but they were gone the next day.


----------



## xenxes

I don't think they've laid eggs, if they did I can't see them. They should be bigger than snail eggs, and individuals?

All the daphnia I threw in yesterday are *gone*


----------



## diwu13

So how are you trying to spawn CPD's in that plastic container? Just putting a couple in there then?


----------



## daworldisblack

I've been following this thread for a while and am really digging it! I have the same tank and am looking to make it into a Iwagumi'ish sorta set up and was looking at HC as well. My concern was CO2 but yours seems to do fine w/o pressurized CO2. Do you do anything special for the HC carpet?


----------



## xenxes

Clear water!










Nothing special for the HC, just fish, shrimp & snail poo.


----------



## Ozydego

That moss wall creates an awesome effect all grown in!


----------



## diwu13

LMAO I totally forgot there was even a moss wall in this tank due to the green water.


----------



## xenxes




----------



## slavecorps

The tank looks great with clear water and the CPD's look nice and healthy


----------



## slavecorps

Does that submersible filter ever pose a problem for the shrimp?


----------



## xenxes

Nah, outer layer is a really fine meshed sponge, even baby shrimp aren't small enough to get sucked in.


----------



## xenxes

10 days ago:









Now:









Pretty slow growth


----------



## nosebleed

are those cpd colors new or something because I haven't sen them in that orange/yellows color? The one I have is red/orange.


----------



## diwu13

You must have insanely high light there. All the leaves near the bottom of my stem plants are dying due to lack of light. And it's no where as dense as this tank.


----------



## xenxes

Yeah these LEDs are pretty strong. The CPDs are red/orange, those pics were taken when the water was really murky (green water) which probably made it look a little yellow.


----------



## Lludu

what is your small foreground plant?


----------



## xenxes

HC (dwarf baby tears)


----------



## xenxes

Decent growth after a month, the glandulosa died off a bit due to an algae outbreak and too much tannins obstructing the light, which cleared up eventually


----------



## alexinoz

I really like your moss on the back wall. I bet the CPD's are happy in there too - well done!


My Fluval Edge 2 (12 gal / 46l) - http://www.aquarium-manager.com/tank/detail/1


----------



## diwu13

What are those three really fat stem plants in the back there? I'd like to get a trimming of that if possible! Does it grow that fluffy usually?

Any luck breeding the CPDs?


----------



## @[email protected]

very, VERY nice.


----------



## xenxes

diwu13 said:


> What are those three really fat stem plants in the back there? I'd like to get a trimming of that if possible! Does it grow that fluffy usually?
> 
> Any luck breeding the CPDs?


That's l. glandulosa, needs high light to thrive, unfortunate are not doing too well in the tank, I tried adding a few clippings outside in a tupperware to see what happens.

Gave up on breeding CPDs, I just threw them all back in here. Still have 8 (I think).


----------



## diwu13

Oh I see. Nix those plants then ! Anything that will grow well in medium to med-low light for me!

Oh I see. So you scrapped the breeding container with mosses?


----------



## xenxes

Yeah they're outside on the balcony table, from the balcony-garden thread:










Oh, I guess I do have some riccia left :/


----------



## diwu13

Are those all RCS I see in that left container ?


----------



## xenxes

Lol those are leaves. Do you see shrimp everywhere? O_O 

There's psychosomatic medicine for that.


----------



## diwu13

xenxes said:


> Lol those are leaves. Do you see shrimp everywhere? O_O
> 
> There's psychosomatic medicine for that.


My GF is trying to find me a giant shrimp plushie


----------



## xenxes




----------



## Wwwwd82

diwu13 said:


> My GF is trying to find me a giant shrimp plushie


 Here's one


----------



## diwu13

xenxes said:


>





Wwwwd82 said:


> Here's one


She wants something cute haha.


----------



## diwu13

Oh yea so I know you chucked that moss tree.. but did you keep the wood?


----------



## xenxes

I don't think I threw it out, but not sure what I did with it.


----------



## Geniusdudekiran

Looks incredible. Only thing I'd suggest is working on organizing it just a bit, otherwise it's flawless.


----------



## diwu13

xenxes said:


> I don't think I threw it out, but not sure what I did with it.


LOL I see haha. Cause someone was wondering how to make a moss tree so I linked them your success with it.

Btw... do you cool your tanks in the summer? Or you just have central AC to cool everything?


----------



## xenxes

Only moss in a tank = bad idea, not enough nutrient uptake to prevent algae and keep the water pristine. Stem plants are great, or large emergent ones.

Apartment always stays around 72-76F year round


----------



## diwu13

xenxes said:


> Only moss in a tank = bad idea, not enough nutrient uptake to prevent algae and keep the water pristine. Stem plants are great, or large emergent ones.
> 
> Apartment always stays around 72-76F year round


Hm.. never knew that. Could that be why the moss in my moss tank is dying? I do have some floaters, round pella, and anubias in there as well. But only the moss is dying.

Central AC? Or are you using portable units?


----------



## xenxes

Central. Hmm I don't know, I kept shrimp and moss in a tupperware with a tiny filter before for a month or so, both did very well. I think some fauna would help, eat the algae off the moss and provide nutrients. Try culling some shrimp into your moss tank and add a little filter?


----------



## diwu13

Ah central. Lucky lucky haha. That's why the tanks are all confined to my room in the apartment haha, that's where the only AC is !

If I set up the rack I'd actually make the moss tank more tank-like. Like substrate as well. And make it the cull tank for yellows, reds, and rilis ! I was totally planning on doing that haha!


----------



## xenxes

So, this blue rili has a black/dark-blue bar:









This is apparently desirable according to the unofficial grading guide @ http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=174527?

I like my other rilis better and have been trying to breed for:










I think you can make up anything, keep it scarce, and get people to pay out of the [email protected]# for it.  I'll just keep breeding for what I like best.


----------



## diwu13

Dang that is sexy rili! I'd agree with you and I like the red/blue ones better, instead of the blue/darker blue rilis. But yea.. beauty is in the eye of the beholder after all.


----------



## xenxes

Also how big of a red/dark-blue bars? The red tail and entirely red head gives it a PFR-ish rili look. But the 3 bars look unique too (head, back, tail separate)... If I had a spare room and 20 more tanks I'd just try different shrimp combos all day 

I need to start making my own shrimp food like Jake, buggers are getting expensive.

*If I Google how to make your own shrimp food all I get are dishes with shrimp IN It


----------



## xenxes

On another note the ludwigia is getting redder compared to just days ago:










vs. 3 days ago


----------



## diwu13

xenxes said:


> Also how big of a red/dark-blue bars? The red tail and entirely red head gives it a PFR-ish rili look. But the 3 bars look unique too (head, back, tail separate)... If I had a spare room and 20 more tanks I'd just try different shrimp combos all day
> 
> I need to start making my own shrimp food like Jake, buggers are getting expensive.
> 
> *If I Google how to make your own shrimp food all I get are dishes with shrimp IN It


I'm a fan of blue shrimp with red headgear more than the 3 bars haha. But both are cool, and I'd like rili's in general ! I'm deciding if I want blue pearls or rilis haha. But I guess if I go rili's I'll end up with some blue pearl looking ones anyway right? roud:

It's expensive? I would just buy Ken's Fish sinking veggie sticks with calcium. That stuff is really cheap considering how much you get. And you can also buy sinking parley pellets in the pond/garden section of Walmart for cheap!


----------



## @[email protected]

very nice.
aquabotanic is having a nano scaping contest, you should put this tank in.


----------



## xenxes

diwu13 said:


> I'm a fan of blue shrimp with red headgear more than the 3 bars haha. But both are cool, and I'd like rili's in general ! I'm deciding if I want blue pearls or rilis haha. But I guess if I go rili's I'll end up with some blue pearl looking ones anyway right? roud:
> 
> It's expensive? I would just buy Ken's Fish sinking veggie sticks with calcium. That stuff is really cheap considering how much you get. And you can also buy sinking parley pellets in the pond/garden section of Walmart for cheap!


Yeah I bought some of the omega 3 super organic crap earlier--was like $20 a small bottle, no noticeable difference, obviously. Ended up just getting Hikari sinking wafers today, and will supplement with left over veggies.


----------



## xenxes

I need to make room in this tank, 50 mixed grade juvies, dollar each -- 










http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=181460

First come first serve!


----------



## diwu13

Aw, they look so cute ! Good luck with sale!


----------



## fjord

Can the filter be removed or is it fixed to the tank?


----------



## daworldisblack

fjord said:


> Can the filter be removed or is it fixed to the tank?


It can be removed but its also the thing that keeps the LED light fixture in place. So might have to mcguyver something up if you're thinking of removing it. But personally for a shrimp tank, I think its perfect. Prefilter sponge keeps babies out and its a corner filter and flow is distributed to the entire aquarium.


----------



## xenxes

The moss wall was getting out of control, so I inverted it:

















My HC never rooted into the substrate, lol


----------



## diwu13

Hm.. did you trim the moss wall before inverting it? Or you're gonna have tons of die off's on the other side now that the light got cut a ton.

And wow, that's a huge difference in coloration in the rili's. Even looks like a cherry baby on the bottom left, and far right (on your last picture).


----------



## xenxes

Anubias diwu sent me, in the driftwood 










I did not trim the moss, I think most will just die off :/ too lazy. The rilis do vary a lot, but they all have some of the rili markings when grown. I haven't had time to cull.


----------



## diwu13

Did you glue the anubias on or anything? or just let the weights do the work? And . Letting all that moss go to waste. You could easily make a quick $10 off them.

And dang.. I didn't realize the hygroryza melted so much . I can't believe it happened to all 3 bags !!! Hope they do bounce back for you though, or we can do another trade down the line!

All the cambomba melted in my tanks. No idea why. Or my shrimp just devours those. It had no chance @[email protected]


----------



## xenxes

They had plant weights on them? I just stuck them into the crevice of the wood.

The hygroryza will definitely bounce back. Sorry to hear about the cabomba, they are the weediest plant I have, I can send you a bunch in separate bags. Some plants are just hardier than others, most frogbits I mail don't do well, but other floaters do better.


----------



## diwu13

Yea they had plant weights on them ! I keep them sunken in my moss tanks so other plants above them can get light. Did you put all of them in this tank?


----------



## xenxes

Lol I was wondering why they didn't float back up. Yeah I put both bundles in here, I had a little one before on the bottom (smallest), yours look way better. I had an old java fern where they are now that I just tossed to the back of the tank. I hate that gap between the l. glandulosa, if they don't branch out I may toss in some l. repens to fill it.

The problem with the plants dying off is the tannins leeching from the wood. Yellow water = bad light and the plants die off. I have to keep up the water changes until the wood's saturated


----------



## diwu13

Really? You left this tank like completely green for a bit for no issues though?


----------



## xenxes

Completely brown/yellow almost 50% opaque. Issue--plants died off


----------



## diwu13

Oh so it did die off due to the green water. Cause you never mentioned about the plants I believe.


----------



## xenxes

Not to green water that was a long time ago, to tannins leeching from the wood/blackwater, not much light gets down.

Put 2 erios and all the A/B CRS went in this tank:









Moss is starting to grow back, I trimmed the glandulosa too much and it's take forever to recover









Wonder how long these last...


























I didn't acclimate them and they're swarming to the filter  let's hope they survive /smack-self.

TDS they came in was 350~, TDS in this tank is 150, pH 7.


----------



## diwu13

Hope these cute guys make it.


----------



## xenxes

Ready to pounce!


----------



## diwu13

Nice macro shots!


----------



## Ozydego

Whats she sitting on?? plant or algae? its interesting whatever it is...


----------



## xenxes

I think it's algae, it was on the roots of the anubias diwu sent


----------



## @[email protected]

looks like BBA. 
spot dose it with excel or peroxide and itll turn a pretty pink after a few hours when it dies. then the shrimp will eat it.


----------



## diwu13

xenxes said:


> I think it's algae, it was on the roots of the anubias diwu sent


Yea probs algae


----------



## xenxes

One of the partly-black/purple blue rili is berried again.


----------



## diwu13

Get ready to cull those babies!


----------



## xenxes

I don't know what to "cull" for. I guess I can try for more black coloration in the new Spec, but I was thinking of reserving it as a yellow tank. Hmm decisions.


----------



## xenxes

Lol, another high grade, low quality CRS  they're all doing well, waiting to see if they will berry before I dump more $ into better shrimp.

Another surprise, a fish fry!









Best pic I could get before it skirted off, CPD fry? I have no other fish in here... looks really elongated though.


----------



## SomeCanuck

Do you think that 2 of the Eheim PowerLEDs is really necessary? I'm thinking of getting just one for my 8g tank with moss, crypts, anubias and dwarf sag/vals. Think that'd be enough light?


----------



## xenxes

Not necessary, I just put the other one on cause I had a spare around. 1 light is definitely enough for your plants listed.


----------



## xenxes

4 different berried mommies





































They just don't quit  I love the random mutation patterns.


----------



## diwu13

WHOA you can almost see the eyes on the eggs in the first pic! That's a really nice shot. Some of the rilis you sent me have really nice coloring as well!

Now for the last two pictures, is that the lighting that is making the shrimp seem blueish? Like their actual body coloration.


----------



## xenxes

Actual, all under the EHEIM LEDs, some are much bluer than others (pretty rare), i.e. if you put it in a plastic bucket overnight it's still blue, whereas the others fade color to conform with the substrate.

Same as PFRs and high grade sakuras vs. RCS. RCS only darken to high light and a dark substrate, PFR/high grade sakuras retain their coloration regardless of the environment and lighting.


----------



## xenxes

Update:










The middle still needs to fill in some more. Slow but progressing.


----------



## xenxes

Against the current


----------



## somewhatshocked

Still looking awesome, I see!

Complete with a rogue CRS trying to get all up inside the filter - ha.


----------



## acitydweller

NO Guts, no glory...


----------



## diwu13

Ha that's really cute ! So that's the lone CRS that keeps climbing.


----------



## xenxes

Every night without fail, makes me think it might be oxygen deprived, hmm.. the others settled in fine. 

Picked up 10x super tigers today, unfortunately 1 was DOA (berried one too)  but the rest are very active


----------



## xenxes

A couple tank shots. I didn't know tigers varied so much from each to the next.

Blue tiger with gold bands









Blue tiger with silver bands









Clear tiger with silver bands


----------



## diwu13

Looking good!


----------



## xenxes

Top down, some tannins still


----------



## xenxes

You probably can't tell, but there are 6 berried Rilis in this shot!


----------



## diwu13

Hm.. I only see 4.


----------



## xenxes

Feeding time, I've start only using this tank for PFR helmet-head Rilis. 








Added some Chara sp., they love the macroalgae, must be the calcium carbonate coating.


----------



## daworldisblack

Hey had a question.. i am thinking of getting a second bulb.. where can I get one online? Did you buy just the extra bulb or the fixture as well?


----------



## xenxes

I have no idea, I have an extra bulb b/c the first tank they sent me arrived in pieces. I know the LED fixture alone retails for $99.. might try http://parts.eheim.com/

When mine burns out I plan on replacing it with the Finnex 26W CFL


----------



## daworldisblack

xenxes said:


> I have no idea, I have an extra bulb b/c the first tank they sent me arrived in pieces. I know the LED fixture alone retails for $99.. might try http://parts.eheim.com/
> 
> When mine burns out I plan on replacing it with the Finnex 26W CFL


Thanks.. yeah I figured their site would be the place to go. Not a bad suggestion there as for the future alternative as well. I kinda like the LED lighting though.. the nerd part of me finds it cool lol.. oh well. Might just stick to one for now. A friend is headed down to the states and am going crazy thinking of things to get that are cheaper/available in the States and not in Canada


----------



## xenxes

I do too.. it will look weird having the corner filter and a light not coming out from the corner. Ohwell :/ 

Also you can't have the lid on with the Finnex, but I don't ever use the lid. The Finnex however is much higher lighting. I find I can barely keep red plants red with 2x LEDs.


----------



## daworldisblack

xenxes said:


> I do too.. it will look weird having the corner filter and a light not coming out from the corner. Ohwell :/
> 
> Also you can't have the lid on with the Finnex, but I don't ever use the lid. The Finnex however is much higher lighting. I find I can barely keep red plants red with 2x LEDs.


Yeah it would look weird.. and I think I like the led light's look better in the water.. sorta makes things pop more I find.. and yeah I lost some fishes and shrimps to jumping initially and so i put the lid on.. man.. if things were not getting light before, it was even worse now.. 1) reflection 2) condensation .. visually it still was bright but my HC and DHG are pretty much brown.. and my Fissidens.. argh.. so i made a screen top from the screen used for screen doors.. i don't think it looks too too bad


----------



## xenxes

Berried! 78F, 7pH, 6GH, 170TDS

Take that naysayer (diwu)!










Had to be the crappiest CRS that berried, ohwell, if all goes well time to move on to better bees. They don't carry many eggs do they?


----------



## diwu13

Yea CRS definitely don't carry as many eggs as neocaridina. However, berried and babies living is a whole different story ! Good luck though!


----------



## daworldisblack

xenxes said:


> Berried! 78F, 7pH, 6GH, 170TDS
> 
> Take that naysayer (diwu)!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Had to be the crappiest CRS that berried, ohwell, if all goes well time to move on to better bees. They don't carry many eggs do they?


Congrats! I had my CBS berried and have 2 batches so far.. i think I counted 7 from the first batch so fat that are all over 4 weeks old and quite prominent in the tank and a second batch was dropped by a second female.. these are still too tiny to spot and count but its exciting to see the berried females! All the best!


----------



## xenxes

Thanks  I hope they hatch, then I can laugh in diwu's face.


----------



## diwu13

I'll let you laugh. Cause I want some tibees :F


----------



## nightshadebel

Awesome! Congrats on the berried girl!!


----------



## xenxes

Thx 

Threw in 6 "blonde" orange eye tigers (culls) to mix with the supers:


----------



## diwu13

Ew. Not a fan of orange eyes


----------



## xenxes

Berried Super Tiger


----------



## nightshadebel

Nice!


----------



## xenxes

Otos stealing all the shrimp food :/


----------



## hydrosparky

Any updates? I'm thinking to get this tank. Is the filter good?


----------



## tlyons01

I was really disappointed to get to the end of this and it left off where it did. I have read all 23 pages of your journey, and I am also interested in knowing how ths setup is doing for you. I would also like to inquire about the plants that you have in the foreground, sort of looks like dwarf sag, but much thicker and taller. Blyxa perhaps? I have this tank, 6 gallon version. I have it lightly planted, but I want to possibly grow DHG in there, do you think that one LED light on that would grow it? The person I got this tank from seems to think it can grow pretty much anything, but I am curious. I am not opposed to putting on a paintball co2 setup on it. My Scarlet Badis need to have some grassy cover to reduce aggression, and I have some moss but wasn't looking to totally moss it out. If you have time I would love to hear your opinion on what I asked and see how your current set up looks these days. I really enjoyed reading this and am now subscribed should you choose to continue updating!


----------



## jamesyu

I have two of these things, well 3 to be exact (I won 1 from eheim)

sad to say that the filters are complete garbage. I'm buying 2 HOB filters with verticle inserts for filter media, with that, you should be able to fill the aquarium up higher than the 1.5 inches from the top that the original instructions held.

I should get mine within 1-2 days, hopefully I can get my aquarium where I want it with the different changes . Not thrilled about lighting and filter getting in the way, but we'll see what happens.


----------



## xenxes

Before the move:









After the move & some clipping:









The tank now gets a bit of sun each day, drastically changing the dynamic. Got a green bloom for a few months then settled down.

Interesting note, I haven't messed with the tank at all for the past 6 months. No water change, no feeding, and not much evaporation with the lid on. Completely enclosed for half a year...










What survived? The rilis, and otos, sunlight creates food.


----------



## dudebro

Your interesting note makes me want to trade my fish for shrimp. ha

I agree on the filter. I have been thinking about a canister with Lilly pipes on my Aqua-style. Looks good.


----------



## dudebro

*xenxes's EHEIM Aquastyle 9.2g - Rescaped Dutch-ish + Rilis + CPDs*

Just added a eheim 106. At full blast it's a lot of flow but there is a valve on the unit to slow it down. 

Water cleared up a lot too.


----------



## Patson

Is that an oto baby in the last pic!!!??? :O


----------



## catfishbi

got love the baby otos


----------



## fishboy199413

That last pic with the oto fry is amazing. The tank looks pretty good for no maintenance over that long period of time.


----------



## xenxes

So I'm restarting this tank, almost a year later on the other coast. Threw in a bunch of temporary plants and a hyacinth to eat up nitrates. I think I'll just plant this time, why waste water volume on a hardscape when I can have more plants?


















Now sandwiched in a corner of my kitchen









Only shrimp that survived from my recent fiasco (dropped a shrimp bucket down the street off the UHaul) are some berried PFRs, 2 somewhat blues, and 2-3 mischling CBS


----------



## Turboman

what is that substrate? looks like some sort of moss


----------



## xenxes

Substrate is: (1) potting soil/peat + (2) backyard dirt (clay/mud) + (3) thin black diamond blasting grit cap + (4) long fiber spaghnum peat moss. Goal was to buffer to slightly acidic for TBs, but water is going towards neutral, probably due to the backyard dirt.









Water is stained slight yellow from the spaghnum moss

















the PFRs / blues I threw in are all berried, they seem to congregate around this one stem of creeping jenny at the back corner for food, ignoring the pellets I drop. Bear in mind these guys survived in an outdoor tub from October to December, without any hand feeding.


----------



## xenxes

Few of the surviving mischlings


----------



## Turboman

I like the tea color water. Love the sphagum moss. I might try that for my black water aquarium. What brand of sphagnum moss are you using?


----------



## xenxes

The type from Home Depot (Mosser Lee) or Lowes 









Growth update, I'm using 2x LEDs so keeping the hyacinth in until I cover every square inch of this little tank, vertical tanks are harder to plant. Contemplating doing a wall of anubias or moss again.


----------



## xenxes

Added some star grass to the back and pieces of moss, mostly fissidens. Water hyacinth is growing out of control as usual in a matter of days, but a necessary evil to keep the algae in check for now.


----------



## Nuthatch

Hi Xenxes- I have a question about the filter you have. I received a 9g Aquastyle for Christmas. I'm a little concerned because I don't have much surface movement. Some tiny bubbles have occurred and are sitting kitty corner to the filter, not moving. 
Have you got any thoughts?


----------



## xenxes

Nuthatch said:


> Hi Xenxes- I have a question about the filter you have. I received a 9g Aquastyle for Christmas. I'm a little concerned because I don't have much surface movement. Some tiny bubbles have occurred and are sitting kitty corner to the filter, not moving.
> Have you got any thoughts?


The prefilter sponge is probably full of debris. Take it out and squeeze it a few times in old tank water.


----------



## xenxes

Gnarly mess, threw in a mopani piece in the front and cholla wood in the back, now home to 15 surviving CBS

0/0/0, TDS 68, KH 0, pH 6.2


----------



## xenxes

Growth in this tank appears to be much slower than the 90g, new tannins from alder cones. Removed the grassy erios. HC keeps getting dug up on the front, going to try something else.









Mischlings settling down and eating


----------



## xenxes

Adding a riparium box (shower caddie) to the back.


----------



## xenxes

One day growth update (lol not much difference), but water is crystal clear tonight with a golden brown hue so I took a few shots.


----------



## xenxes

Shrimpments!









10x TiBees! (BKK x SuperTiger) 









Throwing in 2x Royal Blue OEBTs and a high PH hardy CRS in (from my 90g shrimpments)









OEBT (Royal Blue, almost black)









TiBee var 1, mostly white carried through









TiBee var 2, you can clearly see the tiger base









TiBee var 3, perhaps lowest grade in terms of color but my favorite, rings!

Topped off with rain water, TDS 52, cranked up temperature from 68 to 72, hoping to get some breeding activity.


----------



## xenxes

Lost a Tibee overnight (jumper), my glass cabinet is right by the tank, so it slamming closed spooks the shrimp (at least the new ones).

Riparium caddie beginning to establish









Some growth









Thinking of using some HM for the front, the HC all got picked away


----------



## xenxes

Caddie growth

















F2 TiBee showing SSS recessive white, tiger undercarriage (dominant) in front









Feeding


----------



## xenxes

Not the highest quality, but she's a beaut, like little snowflakes in her shell

























Tiger-Bee


----------



## xenxes

1 week caddie growth before/after:

















(the l. glandulosa in back is new, everything else went emergent)

Crazy how fast aquatic plants grow when carbon's not limited


----------



## xenxes

Adding 5x "BKK" today, these are really shadow Pandas, but only 1/5 is very blue. 

















(yellows/24k are going in another tank)


----------



## xenxes

Growth









Had to cut riparium drastically back, was beginning to cover the top


----------



## Chizpa305

xenxes where do you get your shrimps from?


----------



## xenxes

Chizpa305 said:


> xenxes where do you get your shrimps from?


All over! Some Aquabid, some here, but mostly hobbyists I kept in touch with.

As far as shrimps in here... TiBees from Joe's Aqua, mischlings from Lukeo85 in IL and also sbarbee54 here in Sac, BKKs from Bob at shrimpusa, OEBTs from Ark in Texas. Probably losing track of some. If there's something in particular you want I can probably put you in touch with someone.


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## chinaboy1021

Hi,

Nice tank, you're inspiring me to set up a similar setup.

Question about your caddie. Those plants that grow emersed are okay to just grow like that? My condo is very dry, I never expected plants to survive out in the open like that.

Bump: Hi,

Nice tank, you're inspiring me to set up a similar setup.

Question about your caddie. Those plants that grow emersed are okay to just grow like that? My condo is very dry, I never expected plants to survive out in the open like that.


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## xenxes

As long as the roots are in water they'll do fine  most aquatics have a terrestrial form (unless they're the mushy star-grass kind). Try and see, they'll look drastically different, and a lot of species are in constant bloom, like the lindernia parviflora, mine are about to shoot out the tiny white flowers.


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## xenxes

Update:


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## fish_fasinated

Even mushy star grass has a terrestrial form😝
Sorry couldn't resist lol


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## fish_fasinated

Looks nice and simple


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## fish_fasinated

OK last post, how did you build up the shower caddie?


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## xenxes

fish_fasinated said:


> Even mushy star grass has a terrestrial form&#55357;&#56861;
> Sorry couldn't resist lol


Really?? Heteranthera zosterifolia? Hmm I've never had success with them emersed, they just melt away, maybe I'm doing it wrong and a larger part has to be underwater?



fish_fasinated said:


> OK last post, how did you build up the shower caddie?


Super simple: shower caddie ($5) superglued to mini hooks ($5). The hooks were probably an unneeded expense, but I couldn't find an alternative and the suction cups were weak on the smaller caddies.


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## fish_fasinated

Most likely zosterfolia requires VERY high humidity as it is an Amazon native. I have seen it in its emersed form. Tropica has a new "line" of plants they are calling 1..2..go, essentially its emersed grown plants on a convenient cup.

I'm going to have to try the caddy idea. I need a new experiment while I wait to re-setup my old 65.


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## fish_fasinated

Most emersed setups ive seen are done in a sealed tank with a little water but some plants can handle dryer conditions on the leaf side


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## Technik

xenxes said:


> Update:


is this blackwater or just the lighting?


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## xenxes

It's blackwater, or at least 6.4-6.6pH tannic water 

Some good news, berried mischling mama!










Overflowing planter box:


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## dru

xenxes said:


> Growth
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Had to cut riparium drastically back, was beginning to cover the top


This is awesome! And exactly what I want to do in my betta tanks.

Can you give more details on the substrate you used for the planters? I already have some shower caddys but I've never done emmersed before. Do you have a plant list?


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## xenxes

Just long fiber sphagnum peat moss (from Home Depot $3) + a handful of osmocote root tabs. Depending on proportion of the substrate vs. your tank, it'll turn the water a little yellow. If tannins bother you try hydroton expanded clay. I personally prefer humic releasing slightly acidic buffering substrates, like peat moss or coco fiber coir, would avoid bark because they tan it very brown, unless you're going for blackwater.


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## dru

My plan is to go bare-bottom standard 2.5 gallons tanks with these planted in the back:










Going to do 4 tanks lengthwise with a sponge filter in each

I have some anubias growing on lava rock but I may do sand substrate, not sure yet. Lighting will be 24" dual hot5 with colormax and 6500k bulb suspended over the tanks

I don't mind tanin water so much and the bettas I'm sure will love it 

Thanks for the reply


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