# how much light(par) need/can I have on substrate to grow HC in low tech tank?



## asuran (Oct 12, 2007)

I'm trying to grow the HC in my tank with excel(no co2), my question is how much light need/can I have with excel?

Any input is welcome, thanks


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## asuran (Oct 12, 2007)

Thanks for your comments,
Did you have any algae problems under 75 par without co2? and how did you handle it?



xmas_one said:


> I grow it without excel or co2 at about 75-100. Even with co2 and ferts, anything under about 75 and it just ain't happening for me.


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## puopg (Sep 16, 2012)

If i recall, many ADA aquascapes use HC and they can grow it perfectly fine under low light. I had algae issues with low co2 hitting 70 PAR so IME, anything under 30 PAR you can be fine without CO2 or excel. 70 PAR is medium lighting in my books and I would strongly advise CO2, though since someone has had success without CO2 and I cannot disprove him/her, it seems possible. However, i'd argue you are much more susceptible of algae in this scenario. Check this thread out, Tom measured the PAR at AFA a while back. 

http://www.barrreport.com/showthrea...-Aqua-Forest-and-nice-low-PAr-values-who-knew


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## puopg (Sep 16, 2012)

xmas_one said:


> Either my meter is way off or Tom's was:
> 
> "150 micromol at the surface of the tank right near the HQI MH light"
> 
> That seems like a ridiculously low value that close to a 150 MH.


This IS Tom after all. Also i think in the thread Tom mentioned his friend also brought a PAR meter. For 2 PAR meters to be wrong, I would be highly suspicious of your PAR meter's readings. But who knows, you could be right! XD


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## Qwedfg (Mar 7, 2012)

People have had success growing HC at as low as 40 micromol but this is with good levels of CO2 injection. It is hard to say without CO2 but maybe with excel it would be possible at about the same light..Increasing light is not going to help HC grow unless it has CO2 to utilize more light...at least as far as I understand it.


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## puopg (Sep 16, 2012)

+1 on that CO2.


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## PeterN1986 (Jun 15, 2011)

I dry started my HC for 6 weeks and am dosing Excel after I flooded about 3 weeks ago....I hate to say, it's a losing effort trying to grow the HC, let alone maintaining it. Every day, more and more tiny clumps of it float up and out of the substrate :/


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## tgold (Aug 23, 2012)

I don't have a PAR meter but from my experience, I had a 3 gal tank with 2" of mineralized potting soil covered with 1" pool sand. Lighting was a Sunpaq dual daylight 10000k & 6700k 18w located 7-8" above the substrate. No heater, no co2, ph 8.2 (tap). Dry started the HC for 10 weeks, after the tank was flooded the HC propagated quickly along the substrate surface. It took a lot of care for the first 3 months, dealing with the algae, but afterwards it was minimal care. If the light was raised higher the HC leaves would grow smaller. When the light was changed to a Marineland double bright led 6000K the HC dislodged from the substrate in clumps. The roots were very short only 1/4" in length. Even when the Sunpaq light became old the HC never dislodged, the leaves grew smaller and the depth of the growth decreased. Regarding the HC dislodging from the substrate, I could assume that it depended on the temperature of the light and not the intensity.


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## asuran (Oct 12, 2007)

I'm also using eco complete, seems like it is hard to keep HC rooted in eco complete.


PeterN1986 said:


> I dry started my HC for 6 weeks and am dosing Excel after I flooded about 3 weeks ago....I hate to say, it's a losing effort trying to grow the HC, let alone maintaining it. Every day, more and more tiny clumps of it float up and out of the substrate :/


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## asuran (Oct 12, 2007)

thanks for the link, very helpful



puopg said:


> If i recall, many ADA aquascapes use HC and they can grow it perfectly fine under low light. I had algae issues with low co2 hitting 70 PAR so IME, anything under 30 PAR you can be fine without CO2 or excel. 70 PAR is medium lighting in my books and I would strongly advise CO2, though since someone has had success without CO2 and I cannot disprove him/her, it seems possible. However, i'd argue you are much more susceptible of algae in this scenario. Check this thread out, Tom measured the PAR at AFA a while back.
> 
> http://www.barrreport.com/showthrea...-Aqua-Forest-and-nice-low-PAr-values-who-knew


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## StraightAddicted (May 20, 2012)

I'm no expert at growing HC but ive been using part of paperclips to hold it in my sand substrate. When I start to see a side growing out and lifting, add another paper clip. They are so small that when burried, you don't see them.


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## asuran (Oct 12, 2007)

good idea, 


StraightAddicted said:


> I'm no expert at growing HC but ive been using part of paperclips to hold it in my sand substrate. When I start to see a side growing out and lifting, add another paper clip. They are so small that when burried, you don't see them.


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## dasob85 (Feb 4, 2012)

i grow it with co2 with the marineland doublebright 36". par is around 35-40. paperclip sounds like a good idea


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