# New 20G, 50G, and 135G!!! Must find CHEAP substrate solution



## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

Plain old coarse sand and laterlite?


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## GulfCoastAquarian (Jul 30, 2002)

That's probably what I'd do. Coarse Silica Sand and Laterite/Kitty Litter.
Or, Potting Soil and Black Sand. I shopped around for a few weeks before finding a LFS that could order large bags of black silica sand (20lbs for $10).


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

:idea: How about a staged approach, try something in the 20, if it works set up the 50, then the 135. 


Please, no potting soil, I beg you, no..... :!:


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## hubbahubbahehe (Sep 13, 2003)

Hi guys, I'm using sand right now....and i'm not diggin the bright look of the sand...it's almost blinding..and the plants don't look as nice , say as on top of a black substrate and a black background...the black really makes the plants stand out.... right now, i've got coated black gravel from my fish only days when i was young.... i've got about 100 lbs of it and iwould hate to see it go to waste....i know that this alone is insufficient and downright will not work...but would it be ok to incorporate it somehow? 

perhaps i could use 1-3 mm gravel??? i can live with that appearance. i just found a place near my house Tri City Rock, that sells landscaping materials.... anyone been to one of these places before?? can you fill me in on what to expect when i get there? i have no idea what it's like.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

I would use coarse sand/fine gravel (same thing :lol and put something with a high CEC underneath it. I personally have good experience with that Walmart Kitty litter, or you could use profile which is sold for ~$15/40 lb bag in some places. Then add jobes or root tabs around the root feeders.

I would stay away from soil... just my opinion though.

How did you end up with that many tanks? Are you sure you have the room for them? :mrgreen:


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## hubbahubbahehe (Sep 13, 2003)

hehe well i already have a 40 G, a 55G, two 10 G, one 20L and people come by my house for bible study..check out my tanks..then go , "hey i got an extra tank, you want it?" and OF COURSE I DO!! hahah.... needless to say, I've got quite a collection in my garage now!!! lol... 

Wasserpest, I would LOVE to use the special kitty litter from Walmart, it's so easily accessible to me...but it did not pass the acid test, fizzled like crazy, i'm talking non-stop fizzling.....so *sigh* too bad... 

wasserpest, oh man, if they sold profile for that cheap, i would definitely get it....unfortunately...it's around the same price as a bag of fluorite...maybe 4 dollars cheaper at best.... 

yea, after my stinky soil experiment....i'm a lil scared to do it haha....


so it looks like i'll still need to find something for the underlayer.....ugh... 

hey wasserpest, you think i could use the coated black gravel i have on top? or should i dump that and just use uncoated gravel?


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Well... if you don't know where to put that 135 :mrgreen:

You can use whatever you like on top... I don't like the looks of coated gravel too much, kinda un-natural, but the black does provide for a nice contrast with the plants. I am using a pitch black substrate in my 10 gal, and the Glosso looks great in it, but I am quickly getting tired of it and will probably soon replace it with some river sand (black&white) that I spotted closeby, for more natural looks.

I saw that cheap profile stuff last in Orchard Supply... maybe have a look 'n' see if they sell it close to where you live. Do you think that acid test will work with a baked clay like the kitty litter? Not sure, I though that was more for testing rocks.


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## hubbahubbahehe (Sep 13, 2003)

hmmm...we do live relatively close to each other...so i'm assuming that our Special kitty clays should be the same....

so you say that special kitty works well...what are you comparing it too? could you explain more about it?? which worked better for you, profile or kitty litter?


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

I am comparing the KL to profile. It has the same stability, and looks more natural than the reddish profile (doesn't matter much if you use it underneath a top layer). I tested pH for both and didn't see any effects either way. I did NOT check if they raise hardness. Again, if it is a layer underneath an inch or two of other stuff, I don't think that is such a big problem.

A scientific analysis of various substrates used in fish tanks published at the web (don't have the link handy right now) made that KL look really good in terms of nutrients. Of course, there are also reports of problems with that same brand. YMMV


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## hubbahubbahehe (Sep 13, 2003)

hehe, thanks wasserpest, so what were the reports of the problems? I'm intrigued.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

You will always find someone with that horror story where substrate x raised the hardness of the water by y degrees which immediatedly killed all of the z's.

Anyway, there is some good reading here http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Fertilizer/cec.html


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## hubbahubbahehe (Sep 13, 2003)

oh ....that was so hard to get through...no pictures at all!!!! lol

sigh,,,,, decisions decisions decisions.......what to do what to do!!!


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## Knetter (Nov 4, 2003)

Are you going to use strong lighting above all these tanks? :shock: $$$.....Or would they be low light/maintenance tanks. I'm experimenting with an moss growing tank/paludarium in the off-sunlight. Mostly every plant is cultivate above the water, and is growing with less trouble than submersed. So maybe an idea?.....Nice friends you have, they give you tanks! Maybe you can use a layer of peat plates, they are often cheap and are fertile enough...


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## hubbahubbahehe (Sep 13, 2003)

i am going low tech low maintenance on these tanks...i can't afford to do high tech with all these tanks...let's see how low tech works, then perhaps i will upgrade laters...

i think i've come to a decision and i wanted to run it by everyone.... i've decided to go with a topsoil bottom layer...... and i'm goin to the landscaping supply store and getting 2-3 mm dark gravel of some sort.... 

now i was just at OSH and i noticed that potting soils are too rich....but top soils seem to be okay....honestly i don't know what the difference is between the two besides their name....anyone can enlighten me on this??


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

I buy coarse sand from an industrial supply house. Runs around $12-$15 per 100 lb bag.

Just one word here about CPA (cat piss absorbent) it varies in composition around the country. So even with the same brand that someone in one part of the country had good luck with you may have different luck. Laterlite is pretty cheap.


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## hubbahubbahehe (Sep 13, 2003)

hi REx, i just went by the my local landscaping supply....their biggest gravel size was 1/2 inch....sigh....

and laterite around here is not cheap....and small box of it is 16 bucks....

you are lucky to have cheap laterite in your area.

because i can not find gravel around here.....i may go topsoil underlayer with eco-complete on top......


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## m.lemay (Jul 28, 2002)

I've seen a few people use granite stone dust in thier tanks. Should be available at any landscape place. It's black usually. It's usually used under paving blocks. Home depot sells a 50# bag for about $4. :wink:


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## hubbahubbahehe (Sep 13, 2003)

granite stone dust??? never heard of that....interesting....but does it work.......


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

I can get 50 lbs. of 'chick grit' which is ground up granite for $5 at the local feed store. It is smaller than typical aquarium gravel and larger than sand, chemically inert, but kinda light colored. If you plant like me you won't see the substrate much. :wink:


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

Mail order for the laterite. And check the industrial supply houses or sand blasting supply places for the coarse sand.


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## hubbahubbahehe (Sep 13, 2003)

hi all, sucks i do not have any other industrial supply house or sand blasting supply place near my house...the closest thing was the tri city rock and this other place...and they didn't have what i wanted


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

Look for a livestock Feed Store, the chick grit has been used alot in the hobby and it's cheap. Ignore the pun or just groan to yourself.


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## hubbahubbahehe (Sep 13, 2003)

Hi Sean, i went with the soil underlayer with the black gravel on top for the 50G.... 

i decided to go 100% eco-complete on the 20G with one bag of it...

i'm going to start those two simultaneously...and if the eco-complete has enough benefits that totally blow the soil and gravel mix out of the water, then i will start saving up to get 100% eco-complete for the 135 G 

on a side note, sean, you put "Aquascaping? I'm a crypt farmer" yet i have not seen any of your "crypt farms" yet!!! let's have a lookie... =)


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

hubbahubbahehe said:


> Hi Sean, ....
> ....on a side note, sean, you put "Aquascaping? I'm a crypt farmer" yet i have not seen any of your "crypt farms" yet!!! let's have a lookie... =)


I posted a couple pics to the Photo Album http://www.plantedtank.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3777&highlight=

Have a look if you want.


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## hubbahubbahehe (Sep 13, 2003)

cool cool...nice tanks...!! great growth!~


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

How deep should substrate be, and would sand have any usefull nutrients?

The roottabs you guys talk about, what are those... in generic terms, as I probably don't have the same brands available...


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## hubbahubbahehe (Sep 13, 2003)

sand has no nutrients...

roottabs is basically NPK with some iron


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