# lbacha's Emersed Setup (Lots of pics enjoy)



## lbacha

Well I was running out of room in my tank and I really didn't want to set-up another tank in my aprtment so I went a different route and bought a cheap home depot rack and some lights and some nusery flats with humitity domes, I also have a rubbermaid container on the ground for some larger plants. Here is a pick of the overall set-up I will post some pics of the specific plants as I go.


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## karatekid14

Really cool! How many watts do you have over the "flats." I was thinking I would have 48w T5 over four "flats."


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## lbacha

karatekid14 said:


> Really cool! How many watts do you have over the "flats." I was thinking I would have 48w T5 over four "flats."


The lights are standard 48" T8's from home depot with 2 x 32w 6500k bulbs

Len


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## pandacory

That's pretty neat. I think I have the same rack and lights. Are they set up on a recirculating hydro system?
What kind of subsrate are you using?


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## lbacha

They are actually just sitting in standing water I was going to build a tray to set them in so I can recirculate the water but I want to see how standing water works since I have seen other people do it that way and have good success. 

My substrates vary I have one tray with some rare crypts I got and they are all grown in clay pots with aquasoil malaya, most of the other plants and the stem plants are all grown in rockwool cubes inserted into net pots. I have also just started planting some lagenandras in hydrocol clay balls.

Clay pots: (C. cordata "grabowski", C cordata "thailand", C stiolata, C noritoi, C zukalii & C usteriana x walkeri)









Mesh Pots (C wendtii tropica)









Hydroton: (Lagenandra nairii, Lagenandra thwaitesii & the C usteriana x walkeri-same as above)










I just add a couple drops of regular fertilizer to the water when I add it and i'm planning on water changes every 4 weeks if I can go that long. I really want the set-up to be as low maintenance as possible.

Currenly the water stays between 70-75' the humidity is 90-100% and the air temp is 75'.

My biggest concern right now is mold and fungus growing on the substrate since I don't mist the plants from above, if anything I may build a system that can submerse the plants if needed.

Len


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## gordonrichards

Not fair! Where did you get those awesome crypts?


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## lbacha

gordonrichards said:


> Not fair! Where did you get those awesome crypts?


Thanks, I got them (and the lagenandras) from looking4roselines he has some nice stuff. 

Len


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## lbacha

Just added a nice size Lagenandra meeboldii "pink" it came from a submersed tank so the leaves are a little wilted but the rhizome is huge so it should bounce back nicely. I also got some new leaves on my C cordata "Thailand", C striolata and. C usteriana x walkeri. I guess they like their new home.

Len


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## speedie408

Good luck with your setup man. Hope to see some spathes from you soon. 

About the shop lights... how come you didn't get the ones with the polished reflectors? I got them and they work great. Though instead of running 1 fixture, I'm running 2.


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## lbacha

speedie408 said:


> Good luck with your setup man. Hope to see some spathes from you soon.
> 
> About the shop lights... how come you didn't get the ones with the polished reflectors? I got them and they work great. Though instead of running 1 fixture, I'm running 2.


I just grabbed cheap ones from home depot do they have ones with polished reflectors. I'm getting quotes on some custom tanks with front openings on them and plan on 4 bulbs over each if I go that route.

Len


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## hydrophyte

Those are some great plants that you have.

I have always done best with crypts planting them into substrate with real topsoil. I think that they prosper best with the organic matter and trace nutrients that are better-provided in topsoil.


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## speedie408

lbacha said:


> I just grabbed cheap ones from home depot do they have ones with polished reflectors. I'm getting quotes on some custom tanks with front openings on them and plan on 4 bulbs over each if I go that route.
> 
> Len


http://www.homedepot.com/buy/lighti...-in-2-light-t8-fluorescent-fixture-38673.html

Those are the ones I'm using. The reflectors aren't white, they're actually polished/chrome. The diamond plate adds a rugged touch too lol.


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## lbacha

I saw those, is the reflector worth the extra 10.00 per fixture. I'm wondering if some foil would be just as good for the ones I'm using. Hmm decisions, decisions..

Len


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## lbacha

Speaking of lights how long do most of you keep your lights on for your emerged setups, I currently have minion 12hrs but I'm thinking of going with 14 since algae isn't that big of a concern


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## looking4roselines

Very nice setups.

For the lighting, I have mine on for about 12 hours.


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## lbacha

I like the humidity domes alot they keep the humidity high and the temp stays good (can't beat the price) the only issue indoors is that they drip a little, so far the drips just land on the tray below but eventually I want an enclosed setup. I really want something like the terrarium set-ups you see with the glass doors on the front this way I can put the lights right on top of the tank in th erack and still be able to get into it. I have a RFQ out to glasscages.com to see if they can make me something like that.

Len


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## lbacha

hydrophyte said:


> Those are some great plants that you have.
> 
> I have always done best with crypts planting them into substrate with real topsoil. I think that they prosper best with the organic matter and trace nutrients that are better-provided in topsoil.


The C cordata you sent me a few months ago was it a C cordata var. cordata the leaves look like it but I'm not sure.

Len


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## snausage

speedie408 said:


> http://www.homedepot.com/buy/lighti...-in-2-light-t8-fluorescent-fixture-38673.html
> 
> Those are the ones I'm using. The reflectors aren't white, they're actually polished/chrome. The diamond plate adds a rugged touch too lol.


+1 That's a diesel T-8 shoplight and is definitely worth the extra ten bones.

I had one overdriven on top of a 60 tank with diy co2 and managed to get nice consistent pearling from the faster growing plants.


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## snausage

Ibacha, those are some awesome plants you have, and like everyone else, I'm quite envious. 

If I had invested that type of cash on the plants, I'd pick up a couple 20 longs with glass covers so I could actually see the plants!!!!! Save the humidity domes and nursery trays for propagation.


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## lbacha

snausage said:


> Ibacha, those are some awesome plants you have, and like everyone else, I'm quite envious.
> 
> If I had invested that type of cash on the plants, I'd pick up a couple 20 longs with glass covers so I could actually see the plants!!!!! Save the humidity domes and nursery trays for propagation.


I'm actually trying to get a pair of custom tanks made that will fit the rack I have, 

Len


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## peyton

Looking great! I have plans to set up something identical to yours. I had to move my emersed setups inside since the overnight temps have been dipping into the 40s. I haven't had time or money to get a rack though. Right now my tubs are sitting in my mancave on the floor with a 4' shoplight over them. Not exactly the best looking setup lol.


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## Gatekeeper

Wonderful setup. Very clean.


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## lbacha

Here are some pics of the different plants I have 

Some terrestrial moss I found by my parents lake









My small H pinnatifida stems, I'm interested to see how they grow emersed









Some alternanthera reineckii stems









H corymbosa 'stricta' I got in a small tube from petco









Some mystery stems that I got in a swap, if anyone knows what they are let me know, I think the top two cells are Ludwigia repens.









The whole tray









I hope you like, I'm going to add a list of all the plants I have emersed at the top of the thread

Len


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## pweifan

Here are the plants from our trade that I knew the ID of:

Bacopa monnieri (although I don't see any in your pictures)
Heteranthera zosterifolia
Ludwigia repens
Ludwigia palustris
Lysimachia nummularia
Myosotis scorpioides (aka Myosotis palustris)


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## lbacha

Ok the HZ is the bottom left one which are the other town on the bottom? There is one other as well probably the oneyou are talking about.

Thanks len


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## speedie408

snausage said:


> +1 That's a diesel T-8 shoplight and is definitely worth the extra ten bones.
> 
> I had one overdriven on top of a 60 tank with diy co2 and managed to get nice consistent pearling from the faster growing plants.


How are you overdriving these lights? Do tell. 

____________________

Len - that's some cool moss you got there man. Looks like starmoss. :hihi:


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## lbacha

It grows along my parents lake so I'm hoping it will acclimate to high humidity and temp all year long..


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## pweifan

lbacha said:


> Ok the HZ is the bottom left one which are the other two on the bottom? There is one other as well probably the one you are talking about.
> 
> Thanks len


Yes, bottom left is the HZ. The one next to it is Lysimachia nummularia. I'm pretty sure the last one is some type of Polygonum. Polygonum hydropiperoides if I had to guess, but I can't say for sure.


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## cableguy69846

Hey Len. Beautiful setup man. Keep it up.

I also have some questions. I have an emersed setup, and wanted to know how you are growing Java Fern in yours. I have mine in a tub of water in the setup. What I am wondering, is how much light you have over yours, what your water level is at, and how you fertilize it. Any help would be great, thank you.

P.S. If you need to see my setup, it is in my signature.


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## lbacha

cableguy69846 said:


> Hey Len. Beautiful setup man. Keep it up.
> 
> I also have some questions. I have an emersed setup, and wanted to know how you are growing Java Fern in yours. I have mine in a tub of water in the setup. What I am wondering, is how much light you have over yours, what your water level is at, and how you fertilize it. Any help would be great, thank you.
> 
> P.S. If you need to see my setup, it is in my signature.


I just planted the java fern in rockwool and net pots, I set the rhizome on top of the rockwool with a couple roots in it to hold it down, it has since spread its roots and started shooting up new leaves, here are some pics. If this method works well, I'm going to try and obtain some harder to find varieties of java fern and grown them this way as well.


















Len


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## cableguy69846

lbacha said:


> I just planted the java fern in rockwool and net pots, I set the rhizome on top of the rockwool with a couple roots in it to hold it down, it has since spread its roots and started shooting up new leaves, here are some pics. If this method works well, I'm going to try and obtain some harder to find varieties of java fern and grown them this way as well.
> 
> 
> Len


Thanks for the speedy reply. Do you think this would work if the rockwool was replaced by potting soil? I am trying to figure out the best way to grow mine.


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## lbacha

cableguy69846 said:


> Thanks for the speedy reply. Do you think this would work if the rockwool was replaced by potting soil? I am trying to figure out the best way to grow mine.


The benifits I see with rockwool, is it's easier to use, cleaner and it doesn't grow mold and fungus like soil. The nutrients also get to the plant more efficiently. I'm sure soil would work fine though.

Len


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## cableguy69846

lbacha said:


> The benifits I see with rockwool, is it's easier to use, cleaner and it doesn't grow mold and fungus like soil. The nutrients also get to the plant more efficiently. I'm sure soil would work fine though.
> 
> Len


Thank you for the info. The reason I ask about the soil is because that is what I already have setup. I want to grow it emersed, I just didn't know the best way to do it. Also wanted to know if you are putting any ferts in your water.


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## lbacha

For fertz I'm using a standard household plant fertilizer (schultz I think) at full strength in the setups with rockwool & hydroton clay balls and half strength in the ones with soil. I can't tell you how it works yet because I just started these, I havn't seen alot of recommendations on ferts so not sure what the best is. I do replace the water every 2 weeks and add ferts at that time.

Len


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## cableguy69846

lbacha said:


> For fertz I'm using a standard household plant fertilizer (schultz I think) at full strength in the setups with rockwool & hydroton clay balls and half strength in the ones with soil. I can't tell you how it works yet because I just started these, I havn't seen alot of recommendations on ferts so not sure what the best is. I do replace the water every 2 weeks and add ferts at that time.
> 
> Len


Thanks for the info man.


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## lbacha

Just added 3 Bucephelandras and a C bullosa. I'll post pics later the Buces are amazing looking.

Len


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## speedie408

Len,

What species Buce did you get? I got a few species myself so let me know... maybe we can trade down the line.


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## lbacha

speedie408 said:


> Len,
> 
> What species Buce did you get? I got a few species myself so let me know... maybe we can trade down the line.


I am definitly up for some trades when these start growing, not sure how long that will be since this is my first experience with them. If you have any suggestions on how to grow them best let me know, right nor I have them sitting on top of aqua soil malaya.

here are some pics..

B. 'sokan' (Its an awesome looking plant)









Buce kapit









Buce kapit s malinau









and here is the C bullosa (I can't waut to see this grown up)









Len


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## wabisabi

Nice setup. 

Is that really C. bullosa? All the ones I've seen have bullated leaves. Maybe cause it's a young plant?


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## lbacha

wabisabi said:


> Nice setup.
> 
> Is that really C. bullosa? All the ones I've seen have bullated leaves. Maybe cause it's a young plant?


It's a really small plant so we'll see when the leaves get bigger, I got it from a good source so I'm sure its a bullosa..

Len


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## lbacha

I'm adding a couple C nurii's as well that I just ordered from Ghazanfar Ghori, along with a big package of crypts that I got from someone on the APC forum for a great price, time to set up another tray..

Len


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## lbacha

Here is a detail shot of my Lagenandra thwaitesii, I really love the hazy silvery/white on the edge of the leaf, it isn't a reflection that is the actual color. it looks like someone lightly painted the edge of it with an airbrush, it's not a leaf pattern I've seen on too many plants before.










Len


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## looking4roselines

Len, that c bulosa was grown submersed. Make sure the humidity is high if you're planning to grow it emersed. I had trouble with emersed growth. Good luck if you're going through that route and pelase share your experience good or bad.

Steve, this is the mother plant - its a c bullosa alright.





wabisabi said:


> Nice setup.
> 
> Is that really C. bullosa? All the ones I've seen have bullated leaves. Maybe cause it's a young plant?


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## lbacha

looking4roselines said:


> Len, that c bulosa was grown submersed. Make sure the humidity is high if you're planning to grow it emersed. I had trouble with emersed growth. Good luck if you're going through that route and pelase share your experience good or bad.
> 
> Steve, this is the mother plant - its a c bullosa alright.


Good to know, Humidity is about 95-100% all the time due to a heater in the water but to be safe I'll put in with my lagenandras the water is a little higher so it will cover the rhizome and part of the leaves until it starts growing then I will slowly aclimate it out and see if it works.

Len


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## looking4roselines

A lot of patience is needed for c bullosa. It grows EXTREMELY slow...


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## lbacha

looking4roselines said:


> A lot of patience is needed for c bullosa. It grows EXTREMELY slow...


Not a problem here I'm only home on the weekends so I don't have to worry about staring at it everyday wondering why it won't shoot out a new leaf, lol... I get home on Fridays wondering how everything will look and I'm amazed at all the change not only in my tanks but in my other plants as well. I have heard that C bullosa is not an easy one to grow but based on your picks it is an amazing plant when it gets bigger. How long did it take you to get it to that size? I'm excited about all the other crypts I got from you as well they have all sent up at least one new leaf even the keei that melted.

Len


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## looking4roselines

When i got mine a few years ago, it was already a large specimen. It only grew smaller lol. It did manage to send runners though


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## lbacha

looking4roselines said:


> When i got mine a few years ago, it was already a large specimen. It only grew smaller lol. It did manage to send runners though


Well hopefully my story is opposite of yours started small and got larger, lol...

Len


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## speedie408

Nice plants! Did you get them all from L4R? 

L4R - got any buces you wanna trade? 

I'll second the fact that c. bullosa is an extremely slow growing plant. Actually the slowest plant I've kept yet. IME, it grows a bit faster submersed in soft acidic water.


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## lbacha

speedie408 said:


> Nice plants! Did you get them all from L4R?
> 
> L4R - got any buces you wanna trade?
> 
> I'll second the fact that c. bullosa is an extremely slow growing plant. Actually the slowest plant I've kept yet. IME, it grows a bit faster submersed in soft acidic water.


Most of them are from L4R he's been great got my collection up and running. Still looking to add more, I'm really hooked on the emersed setup, I'm still trying to decide out how i want to make a more permanent setup..

Len


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## looking4roselines

Speedie, I am certain that I still have a sp from kapit left. I'm not sure if others are big enough to swap though


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## wabisabi

looking4roselines said:


> Len, that c bulosa was grown submersed. Make sure the humidity is high if you're planning to grow it emersed. I had trouble with emersed growth. Good luck if you're going through that route and pelase share your experience good or bad.
> 
> Steve, this is the mother plant - its a c bullosa alright.


Damn, that is SiCK!

So the concensus is that its easier to keep C.bullosa immersed....I may have to change the way I'm growing this.


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## lbacha

Well I will be doubling my emersed crypt collection in the next week or so, all of these are either on their way to me or will be there in the near future, all but the nurii 'pahang mutated' are emersed grown so they will all feel at home in my emesed trays.

C albida
C becketti
C ciliata
C cordata
C lucens
C nurii
C nurii 'pahang mutated'
C pygmae
C spiralis
C undulata
C wendtii ??
C wendtii ‘florida sunset’ ??
C wendtii 'green gecko' ??
C wendtii 'mi oya'
C willisi x lucens ??

The question marks are ones the seller wasn't a 100% sure on but I couldn't pass on the deal he offered 14 different crypts for $26, can't beat less than 2 dollars a crypt.

Len


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## Jeffww

How do you keep the humidity so high?


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## lbacha

Jeffww said:


> How do you keep the humidity so high?


I don't do anything the enclosed container keeps it above 95% I do have a small heater in the tray with my crypts but it isnt really needed, I guess thats why they call them hunidity domes lol...

Len


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## Jeffww

lbacha said:


> I don't do anything the enclosed container keeps it above 95% I do have a small heater in the tray with my crypts but it isnt really needed, I guess thats why they call them hunidity domes lol...
> 
> Len


How long does it take to build up such a high humidity? My humidity dome doesn't really seem to do much steaming or anything...


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## lbacha

Jeffww said:


> How long does it take to build up such a high humidity? My humidity dome doesn't really seem to do much steaming or anything...


It will make it to about 85-90% in 20 min then it increases from there, I tested it with an electronic humidity meter

len


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## Jeffww

Hrm... do you think the amount of water in the tray has something to do with the humidity? Cause I've filled the train with about an inch of water and now I'm starting to think that's way too much since with that much water it'll be harder to heat up with my lamp and so there will be less evaporation. How much water do you have in there?


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## lbacha

Jeffww said:


> Hrm... do you think the amount of water in the tray has something to do with the humidity? Cause I've filled the train with about an inch of water and now I'm starting to think that's way too much since with that much water it'll be harder to heat up with my lamp and so there will be less evaporation. How much water do you have in there?


Up to about 1/2" to the top so alot more than you, how are you measuring humidity? also if the temp where the tray is is high you won't see as much condensation on the walls of the dome. Condensation only occurs when there is a temp difference on the surface that is being condensated on. My ambient temperature in the apartment is 70-74 degrees F and the humidity stays between 55-60% (this may be a factor as well, I don't know). I have a ton of plants in my apartment so my humidity levels are much higher than most, I actually work to keep them below 60% so I don't get any mold or fungus growing on anything (now that winters coming it won't be that big of an issue).

Len


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## lbacha

Here is a pic of one of my domes about 1 hr after adding water to it.


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## DogFish

What is your review of the hydrocol clay balls? I'm thinking of trying them. I have an empty 20L in on my Table "rack". How deep did you go? I'm thinking Cryts & Java fern. Not sure if the Java will work??? 

I currently use MTS in my emeresed tanks.

Thanks


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## lbacha

DogFish said:


> What is your review of the hydrocol clay balls? I'm thinking of trying them. I have an empty 20L in on my Table "rack". How deep did you go? I'm thinking Cryts & Java fern. Not sure if the Java will work???
> 
> I currently use MTS in my emeresed tanks.
> 
> Thanks


I really don't have much to review right now, I only have lagenandras in it right now and they have only been in there for a couple weeks, the biggest issue is supporting the plant until they root, my L thwaitesii was pretty big and it kept falling now that it has developed some roots it supports itself. I'm going to try some crypts in it this weekend to see how they do in it. I saw a thread at APC where a russian hobbiest was using hydroton and his crypts and anubias's where growing great so I know it works. I really wish they sold it in a size about half of what it comes then it would be great.

Len


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## Da Plant Man

How did I miss this tank!?!? I love it! I am planning on doing a 75g emersed (48x20x20). This is really helpful! Can't wait to see what species you get next.




pweifan said:


> Yes, bottom left is the HZ. The one next to it is Lysimachia nummularia. I'm pretty sure the last one is some type of Polygonum. Polygonum hydropiperoides if I had to guess, but I can't say for sure.


http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/pHosting/f/6768_some_mystery_stemsc.jpg

The one in the lower right-hand corner isn't hydropiperoides, hydropiperoides have no red on them. I would bet money saying that plant is Polygonum kawagoeanum.


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## DogFish

Len - Thank you. I'll look forward to hearing how well the crypts do in that media.

I now have an Acrylic 40gl available http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/150325-o-k-so-wasnt-good-idea.html :eek5: I think it will make a good hydroponic tank. I have an idea about making a circulation pump from a power head.


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## lbacha

Well I just added some C nurii to my emersed set-up, I ordered two plants and got all this, I can't complain. I bought it to see how it does in rockwool and well I guess I'm getting plenty to test with.


















Len


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## lbacha

DogFish said:


> Len - Thank you. I'll look forward to hearing how well the crypts do in that media.
> 
> I now have an Acrylic 40gl available http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/150325-o-k-so-wasnt-good-idea.html :eek5: I think it will make a good hydroponic tank. I have an idea about making a circulation pump from a power head.


Well I just planted a C wendtii in it so we will see, I did have an issue with a L meeboldii I had in it but I'm not sure if it was an issue with the plant. It was originally submersed grown and it had melted bad by the time I planted it. When I got home today the rhizome had esentially melted, I cut the bad part away and planted the rest in AS malaya so we'll see what happens, a L thwaitesii I have in it has rooted well and is solidly in the pot so we'll see if it was a fluke.

Len


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## Jeffww

lbacha said:


> Up to about 1/2" to the top so alot more than you, how are you measuring humidity? also if the temp where the tray is is high you won't see as much condensation on the walls of the dome. Condensation only occurs when there is a temp difference on the surface that is being condensated on. My ambient temperature in the apartment is 70-74 degrees F and the humidity stays between 55-60% (this may be a factor as well, I don't know). I have a ton of plants in my apartment so my humidity levels are much higher than most, I actually work to keep them below 60% so I don't get any mold or fungus growing on anything (now that winters coming it won't be that big of an issue).
> 
> Len


My humidity is about 75-85% according to my gauge. It seems to cap out at 80 after an hour.


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## lbacha

Jeffww said:


> My humidity is about 75-85% according to my gauge. It seems to cap out at 80 after an hour.


What is the humidity in the room where the tray is at? I wonder if that has a impact on it. For the most part though as long as you are above 70% or so you will be fine, the leaves will dry out while they are converting between submersed to emersed but the new leaves will actually be tougher from what I have heard if you keep the humidity lower. The new leaves on my wendtii in my almost 100% humidity domes arn't much different than the submersed leaves but when you see the crypts come from places like Flordia aquatic nursury the leaves are thicker, I'm sure they don't grow them in 100% humidity and that is the reason why.

Len


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## chad320

Wow Len, I totally missed this. We are, in fact, on the same page  that is the same rack I was going to get even  I got a Buce 'Sintang" if you are up for a trade soon. It just flowered underwater but its got some nice sized side shoot id trade. You got a few crypts id like to add to my collection. Haha, we are even on the same page on the terrestrial mosses. I got a few of those too. Along with 11 submergable mosses  Great work and I cant wait to see this thread progress, its super nice. And I see you get some of your stuff from great guys like L4R


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## Jeffww

Hmmm...okay then I guess I'll see then. I've seen FAN's grow zones. They keep them under a huge like pavilion thing in open air in Florida. So humidity is probably like a constant 70%


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## lbacha

Well I just got some new plants, I also had a casualty, one of my bucephelandras melted, the rhizome still looks good but the leaves and roots melted away, odd thing is the two buces on either side of it are doing great, new roots and leaves. fingers crossed that leaves grow from the rhizome. 

Len


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## lbacha

Well I went more high tech I set up a 40 breeder with a circulation pump and the coolest thing ever a mistking, if you have ever seen the misters like they have in the vegetable section at some grocery stores it is like that, I figure if veggies like it them my aroids will too, it's a test for my terrarium anyways. I'm going to let it run a day or so then add plants. I want to see where temp and humidity stay on it.










Len


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## peyton

Da Plant Man said:


> How did I miss this tank!?!? I love it! I am planning on doing a 75g emersed (48x20x20). This is really helpful! Can't wait to see what species you get next.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/pHosting/f/6768_some_mystery_stemsc.jpg
> 
> The one in the lower right-hand corner isn't hydropiperoides, hydropiperoides have no red on them. I would bet money saying that plant is Polygonum kawagoeanum.


 I agree it doesn't look like emersed hydropiperoides and it would lean towards kawagoeanum. However in good light hydropiperoides can turn red almost as much as kawagoeanum. Here is some hydropiperoides I collected locally (sorry, crappy phone pic)


----------



## looking4roselines

Updated pic on the 40g please. =)


----------



## lbacha

looking4roselines said:


> Updated pic on the 40g please. =)


You asked for pics here you go..

Some specs
Tank: 40G breeder (thanks $1 a gallon special petco)
Light: 2 x 6500k T8 (I'm planning on a 36" light fixture have to figure out what though(
Water Circulation: small powerhead (I plan on drilling the tank and adding a sump)
Air Circulation: small CPU fan
Humidity: Glass top and mistking (I mist twice a day for 20s right now)

Full set-up (the mistking pump is under the tank on the floor)









Full tank from the front (you can see the PC fan in the upper right corner)









The mistking mister (more high tech than needed but it is neat)









And now for why I set this up the Bucephelandra collection (oh yeah there are some nice crypts and lagenandras as well)









B sokan - this was one of the first ones I got and I really like it (it has a few new roots coming off it now)

























B sokan 3 'Shine Blue' (I've had it one week and already it has small fuzzy roots)

























B sokan 4 'Shine Green' (I didn't see any new roots but their is some fresh growth at the tip of one of the long roots)

























B sanggau 2 (This is one of the bigger ones I got)

















B longwave 2 (already has a new root also a larger one)

















B kapit (One of my first one 3 weeks old, it has 2 new leaves and a new root) I love the small size

















B belindae (You don't see leaves like this very often)

























B s malinau (unfortunatly this one has melted, the rhizome still looks good so I have my fingers crossed, this is why I have a new emersed set-up)









Well I hope you like my new plants and set-up stay tuned and I'll keep you up to date on how they grow for me.

Len


----------



## msharper

Wow! That is really cool! I love this setup!


----------



## speedie408

Baller!


----------



## cableguy69846

Wow. That is awesome.


----------



## zachary908

Those are some sexy plants!


----------



## Da Plant Man

Epic. I love it.


----------



## looking4roselines

Beautiful plants. They seem to be acclimated already. Are you keeping the mister in the tank permanently? Also, have you decided how high you are keeping the water level?

I am still not sure what caused one of them to melt. Maybe someone else who have experience with these can chime in.


----------



## lbacha

looking4roselines said:


> Beautiful plants. They seem to be acclimated already. Are you keeping the mister in the tank permanently? Also, have you decided how high you are keeping the water level?
> 
> I am still not sure what caused one of them to melt. Maybe someone else who have experience with these can chime in.


I got your PM after I left for the week so I had already left the water lower, I'm thinking I will keep it slightly above the rim going forward (I think it will really benifit the crypts). I will eventually put the mister in the terrarium I'm working on but I wanted to see how it works so I put it in here. I'm actually going to go sandstone hunting this weekend and try tying the 'shine green' on it and see how it grows, I think the mister will really help for keeping it moist on the rock. I am really impressed with the growth I've seen in the week they have been here, those little fuzzy roots are pretty neat. As far as the one goes I'm not sure what happened to it but the rest seem fine (I guess natural selection was working and it wasn't strong enough, lol)

Len


----------



## looking4roselines

nice shop light you got there by the way. I've been using the exact same one on my 55g for the last two years.


----------



## mcqueenesq

lbacha said:


> Here is a pic of one of my domes about 1 hr after adding water to it.


I'm not sure why, but now I have to drink some Scotch. You also have a stunning plant collection.


----------



## lbacha

looking4roselines said:


> nice shop light you got there by the way. I've been using the exact same one on my 55g for the last two years.


For $20 plus $8 for the bulbs its hard to beat, I will probably get something more permanent eventually but it definitly works for now.

Len


----------



## lbacha

mcqueenesq said:


> I'm not sure why, but now I have to drink some Scotch. You also have a stunning plant collection.


Don't get me started on Scotch if you like my plants then you will love my Scotch collection.. www.whiskylen.com

Len


----------



## they call me bruce

got to try it


----------



## Gatekeeper

You have the PC fan inside the tank with all that moisture???


----------



## lbacha

Gatekeeper said:


> You have the PC fan inside the tank with all that moisture???


It's a 12v fan so I'm not really worried about moisture and electricity and if the fan fails it cost $5 so I'm not really worried there either, I actually dropped it in the water and it still runs , lol... Current forming a magnetic field that drives the fan is really hard to break the only real issue would be corrosion and the fan seizing up..

Len


----------



## lbacha

So here are some new shots

My new humidity and temp gauge (it has a remote sensor)

















C cordata 'thailand" this is doing really well 3 new leaves in the last couple weeks









C usteriana x walkeri (this is a nice crypt)









My new Macodes petola orchid (its hanging out in my emersed tank above the water, it will be part of my borneo terrarium, the plant I got was huge and made 5 smaller pots.

















Len


----------



## speedie408

I'd be interested to trade you for one of those Macodes petola orchid if you're up for it. Sweet looking plant.


----------



## lbacha

speedie408 said:


> I'd be interested to trade you for one of those Macodes petola orchid if you're up for it. Sweet looking plant.


Definitely, I didn't realize how much I was getting when I ordered it, it came from Puerto Rico and the guy told me it was overgrown he wasn't kidding, lol.. I had to repot it because I want to see it spread out and grow larger leaves. Let me know if you want to trade for it or maybe use it to build up some credit towards one of your C hudorio's when they are ready again.

Len


----------



## speedie408

I'll send you a PM bro. I actually got one sittin right here for ya if you're really up for trades.

btw, since that plant's an orchid, I suppose it don't need to be in a humid environment to thrive right? How big does it get? Gimmi some basics on it.


----------



## lbacha

speedie408 said:


> I'll send you a PM bro. I actually got one sittin right here for ya if you're really up for trades.
> 
> btw, since that plant's an orchid, I suppose it don't need to be in a humid environment to thrive right? How big does it get? Gimmi some basics on it.


Actually I think this one does need to stay humid that's why I got it. Mike Lo (jungle mike) had a picture of it next to some bucephelandras and i thought it would be a great addition to the Borneo biotope terrarium im planning. it doesn't get too big from the research I've done and it's considered fairly easy, its actually grown for it's leaves not ist flower, it also a terrestrial orchid so it would probably do ok in one of your 10 gallons as long as you keep it in a pot above the water level.

Len


----------



## looking4roselines

Hey Len,
Those are some nice looking orchids. I take it that their roots cannot be in water right?


----------



## gordonrichards

Super clean with your setup! My emersed tanks are a mess!


----------



## lbacha

looking4roselines said:


> Hey Len,
> Those are some nice looking orchids. I take it that their roots cannot be in water right?


I don't think so, Mike Lo showed some picks of them right at the water line but I dont think they would do well in water..


----------



## lbacha

gordonrichards said:


> Super clean with your setup! My emersed tanks are a mess!


They are in my apartment so I've tried hard to make the setup look nice, if I had a house they would be in the basement in fiberglass tubs..

Len


----------



## chad320

This is really coming along great!!! I feel as impatient to see your plants grow as I do mine  Nice Buce collection youve got started!!!


----------



## wabisabi

That Macodes petola is sick!



lbacha said:


> I don't think so, Mike Lo showed some picks of them right at the water line but I dont think they would do well in water..


New orchid root growth can actually survive and thrive in water. Some species don't tolerate it but most do. If existing roots are submerged they will almost certainly rot. 

If the rhizome of the buce is still viable (didn't melt), I wouldn't worry much about it. It'll start growing new leaves soon. 

How has that rockwool been working for ya?


----------



## lbacha

wabisabi said:


> That Macodes petola is sick!
> 
> 
> 
> New orchid root growth can actually survive and thrive in water. Some species don't tolerate it but most do. If existing roots are submerged they will almost certainly rot.
> 
> If the rhizome of the buce is still viable (didn't melt), I wouldn't worry much about it. It'll start growing new leaves soon.
> 
> How has that rockwool been working for ya?


Do you hear that Devin I think you have some new candidates for your riparium, the rhizome looks good so I'm just waiting for it to acclimate and shoot out some roots, the rock wool has had mixed results I think I need to get my nutrients dialed in correctly, some stems have done great and the java fern is doing awesome on it, the jury is still out on the crypts, they are growing but not at the speed I would have thought. I have been using it as a base in my bucephelandra pots, I figure the roots don't go too deep and it is cheaper than Aqua soil, so I really only have like a inch of soil in each pot.

Len


----------



## wabisabi

lbacha said:


> Do you hear that Devin I think you have some new candidates for your riparium


I didn't quite catch this phrase? lol!

That's a great idea for the rockwool under the AS for the buces. I hear yah, AS might as well have particles of gold in it for the price!


----------



## 150EH

Wow those are all very nice, I'm not familiar with all of your crypts but I have a couple of questions:

will all the emersed grown Crypts transition to sumereged?

will they prpogate via runner of the roots as they do submerged?


----------



## lbacha

wabisabi said:


> I didn't quite catch this phrase? lol!
> 
> That's a great idea for the rockwool under the AS for the buces. I hear yah, AS might as well have particles of gold in it for the price!


The price isn't what kills me it's the cost of shipping it here that kills me, it ads $15-20 a bag to the price.


----------



## lbacha

150EH said:


> Wow those are all very nice, I'm not familiar with all of your crypts but I have a couple of questions:
> 
> will all the emersed grown Crypts transition to sumereged?
> 
> will they prpogate via runner of the roots as they do submerged?


All them will transition back to the submersed, most started that way some send runners other build big clumps that can be broken apart.

Len


----------



## lbacha

Well everyone, I got a couple neat new plants and two of my Buces are about to flower (yipee) my first aroid other than my big peace lily and anthuriam to bloom.

Shine Green blooming

















Shine Blue flowering

















My new B 'Red Gaia'









My new B 'Blue Wave'









My new monster B 'Green Velvet' don't let anyone tell you all buces are small this thing is huge and its all one plant









Here is the whole collection, I didn't take any close-ups yet but there is my new piptospatha sp in the front there. Now to grow these out so I can stock my terrarium project with them.









Len


----------



## looking4roselines

It looks like they came to you in good condition.

bucephalandras flower easily. I have a few sp. flowering immersed and 2 flowering submerged. Both green and blue shine were immersed before I sent them to you. 

As for the piptospatha, I potted the plant the same way as the bucephalandra. But the pots are elevated. I am not sure if I should submerge their roots since I dont see this too often in the photos from jungle Mike. Check with Steve to see how he is growing his piptospatha when you get a chance.


----------



## hydrophyte

Wow that's some amazing plants.


----------



## lbacha

Some pics of what I came home to last weekend the buces seem to like their new home, flowers and new plantlets the piptospatha is sending up new leaves and the macodes is just cool looking, also some follow-up pictures of the flower on the shine blue (the shine green flower hasn't opened yet so no new pic)

B N sanggau 2 with little plantlet starting


















My new Piptospatha sp. it came with three leaves and one just starting to open now that is open and an additional leaf is coming up, all in a little over a week.









My Macodes petola (Jewel orchid) I have 4 more on their way these things are neat little additions









And last but not least the B 'shine blue' flowering (such a delicate little flower) and such a nice shade of pink.


































Enjoy Len


----------



## looking4roselines

Nice shots Len 
The plants are definitely liking their new home. I've also noticed that piptospahta's growth rates are a lot faster than buce. 

You might already know but I just found out that some piptospahtas are grown submerged in the rainy season. I'm just not too sure how long they can survive submerged. Unlike buce, their leaves does not appear to be designed to withstand rapid currents


----------



## lbacha

looking4roselines said:


> Nice shots Len
> The plants are definitely liking their new home. I've also noticed that piptospahta's growth rates are a lot faster than buce.
> 
> You might already know but I just found out that some piptospahtas are grown submerged in the rainy season. I'm just not too sure how long they can survive submerged. Unlike buce, their leaves does not appear to be designed to withstand rapid currents


All the research I've done states that all piptospatha are rheopytic therefore they live in the exact same conditions as buces, they have streamlined leaves the question is how flexible the petiole is. 

Len


----------



## speedie408

I see you been busy adding to your collection Len. All very nice specimens. I need to catch up...


----------



## lbacha

speedie408 said:


> I see you been busy adding to your collection Len. All very nice specimens. I need to catch up...


:hihi: I'm sneaky like that, people keep putting cool plants up for sale..

Len


----------



## green_valley

WOWWW, very nice Len.


----------



## chad320

Len, I just talked to Santa and he said for you to send me all of your shine blues :hihi: The emergent collection is looking beautiful. I cant wait to see the terrarium setup.


----------



## lbacha

chad320 said:


> Len, I just talked to Santa and he said for you to send me all of your shine blues :hihi: The emergent collection is looking beautiful. I cant wait to see the terrarium setup.


I'm going to switch the shine green and blue to submerged to see if it kick starts their growth cycle, hopefully I'll have some plants for you in a couple months.

Len


----------



## lbacha

Well my emersed set-up is getting a little full with both emersed plants and terrestrials sitting on top of the emersed pots (I fugure why waste space) Here are some pics of my Jewel orchid collection.

Anoectochilus formosanus









Anoectochilus geniculatus









Dossina hybrid

















Macodes Petola









Macodes sanderiana









Here is a shot of my piptospatha with some new roots growing









As well as my experiment planting a foam rock (I used aquarium water to soak it hoping that is enough nutrients)









Len


----------



## hydrophyte

So how did you put the plants on the rock? Did you glue them in place?


----------



## lbacha

hydrophyte said:


> So how did you put the plants on the rock? Did you glue them in place?


I cut a slit in the foam and inserted the end of the rhizome into it.

Len


----------



## n00dl3

Len - Very nice collection!!!


----------



## looking4roselines

The buce looks good on the rock. Spreading some moss across the rock will give it a more natural look


----------



## Speaker73

lbacha said:


> Well my emersed set-up is getting a little full with both emersed plants and terrestrials sitting on top of the emersed pots (I fugure why waste space) Here are some pics of my Jewel orchid collection.
> 
> Anoectochilus formosanus
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anoectochilus geniculatus
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dossina hybrid
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Macodes Petola
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Macodes sanderiana
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a shot of my piptospatha with some new roots growing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As well as my experiment planting a foam rock (I used aquarium water to soak it hoping that is enough nutrients)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Len


Dude. Where did you get your orchids from? Looking for them as well.

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk


----------



## lbacha

looking4roselines said:


> The buce looks good on the rock. Spreading some moss across the rock will give it a more natural look


I actually just ordered some Christmas moss to put on them, I also want to get some Taiwan moss, all I have right now is java and I wanted to go with something different , I do like the way it looks on the rock, now to see how it grows on there, the latest IAS newsletter has a great article about the different rock types in Borneo and what aroids grow on them I'll send I'd your way 

Len


----------



## lbacha

Speaker73 said:


> Dude. Where did you get your orchids from? Looking for them as well.
> 
> Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk


Check out eBay they have a great selection

Len


----------



## lbacha

Here are some shot of my emersed setups as of the 1st

















Len


----------



## speedie408

Hook it up Len!!


----------



## jkan0228

That's a bad *** setup!!


----------



## looking4roselines

awesome setup len but we need detail shots!!

I Know I am asking a lot... But can you get a shot of your aglaonema while youre at it? Gordon is lagging it... Hehe


----------



## lbacha

looking4roselines said:


> awesome setup len but we need detail shots!!
> 
> I Know I am asking a lot... But can you get a shot of your aglaonema while youre at it? Gordon is lagging it... Hehe


I'll post some pics this weekend, They are similar in color to L thwaitsii (I got a few of them from him too) their leaves are just broader and the minima has about 4" leaves on 3-4" petioles and the simplex has 5-6" leaves on 4-5" petioles. I'm not sure if these are full grown or if they will change leaf color over time but they kinda look like large piptospatha leaves. 

I'll take some shots of the flats, I just converted one to having 1.5" of worm castings in the bottom and crypts planted directly into the substrate. I'm cureous to see how it works and the short containers on the bottom each have a layer of sphagnum moss with a differnt moss on them (Taiwan, peacock and UG and I have christmas coming). The two aquariums on the one shelve are currently a blackwater crypt emersed set-up and a grow out tank for my buces. The big tupperware under the 40b is full of H pinnatifida stems. (If anyone needs some let me know)

Len


----------



## lbacha

I have alot of pics to post but I wanted to start with what may be my favorite plant at the moment. An added perk is it's endemic to Borneo and will be a key attraction in my Borneo paludarium.

Here it is

Dossinia Marmorata var dayii










One of the reasons I think its a great addition for this thread is alot of orchid growers struggle with them but these things love the conditions in our emersed setups as long as you keep them above the water line so the substrate doesn't stay soaked all the time. I'm starting to do cuttings of some of the others I have and I actually have a few of these so I'm hoping to have some soon to do some trades or sell.

Len


----------



## n00dl3

lbacha said:


> I have alot of pics to post but I wanted to start with what may be my favorite plant at the moment. An added perk is it's endemic to Borneo and will be a key attraction in my Borneo paludarium.
> 
> Here it is
> 
> Dossinia Marmorata var dayii
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the reasons I think its a great addition for this thread is alot of orchid growers struggle with them but these things love the conditions in our emersed setups as long as you keep them above the water line so the substrate doesn't stay soaked all the time. I'm starting to do cuttings of some of the others I have and I actually have a few of these so I'm hoping to have some soon to do some trades or sell.
> 
> Len


Beautiful orchid!!! You make me want to go buy one!


----------



## lbacha

I've never been a huge orchid fan and I ran across this while researching my Borneo set-up (Thanks Mike Lo) and I figured it would be a cool addition, now that I have them they are kinda addictive. Its a fight for space right now between the different plants I collect, I need to go Xue's route and start building a greenhouse if only I had some property, lol...

Len


----------



## chad320

Wow Len, If you have one of those you would let go of I would be interested. You posted another orchid id like to try as well. Let me know 

EDIT: Macodes petrola orchid


----------



## lbacha

There is a macodes petola waiting for you and I'll set a dosinnia aside for you as well, I'd be up for trading for some moss, I'm looking to build up my collection

Len


----------



## chad320

For sure Len, just let me know. I am starting to smile with excitement already


----------



## lbacha

Well you asked for pics so here they are

Here are two more of my new Jewel Orchids

Goodyera hipsida (this is actually a higher elevation jewel orchid and likes cooler temps, it is related to the slipper orchids you see in the states)









x Macodisia Lemon Lime (this is a hybrid between Macodes sanderiana and Ludisia discolor)









Here are some pics of issues i've jad pop up in my emersed tank, I have submersed the two plants in another tank if anyone knows what these are let me know

Here is a bucephalandra sokan with small brown specs im guessing mites (not good if anyone knows a cure let me know)









Here is another bucephalandra with a black fuzz like growth on the leaves its like fungus of some sort and i'm seeing it on alot of my leaves.









Ok Xue these are for you here are the Aglaonema's from Gordon along with some lagenadras

Aglaonema simplex









Aglaonema minima









Lagenadra thwaitsii (I have a really large one of these I got from Xue and its a nice plant so I decided to get some smaller ones while Gordon had them for a good price)









Here are some random shots of my other emersed set-ups 

This is a new set-up I did I just put worm castings in a propogation tray with a humidity dome over it and put some random crypts in there these are all C wendtii tropica with a couple mi oya I took out of my tank on the far left









Here is an unknown moss that popped up that i put here in with the worm castings. I like it almost like fuzz









Here is my moss set-ups from left to right UG, peacock and taiwan (That is just wet sphagnum with the moss growing on top of it) humidity stays about 85% in the containers measured with an electronic RH controller









Here are some random sandstone peices I got while I was down hunting at our cabin in souther ohio this weekend









This dome has some cuttings from my houseplants in it









and finnally this is the tub on the floor full of H pinnatifida along with some other random stems (I justed added some more light to it this weekend so we will see if it helps the growth some)









Len


----------



## jkan0228

Awesome pics!! Lol


----------



## wabisabi

Wow, great collection you got going on there. When I first saw the propagation tray with the crypts I thought they were all Bucephalanda! My next thought was Len is a baller!

Those jewel orchids are cool. 

Looks like some aphids on the first Bucephalandra. Just wipe em off with your hands or use a stream of water to get them off. Submersing the plant for a few days will get rid of them too. I would examine your other plants closely to see if they are attacking any other plants. 

I still don't know what the black stuff is. I noticed a few of my plants came in with it. Seems to be self limited and the plant just grew new leaves.


----------



## DogFish

wabisabi said:


> ....
> Looks like some aphids on the first Bucephalandra.....Submersing the plant for a few days will get rid of them too. I would examine your other plants closely to see if they are attacking any other plants.


roud:

Go straight to drowing them, if you wipe them off some will escape to attach another plant. This is exactly why quarantine is so important. We spend some much time energy collecting and it's so easy to have thing go bad fast,

Len - Have you tried drowning the fungus? Maybe a few days underwater would do the job?


----------



## lbacha

wabisabi said:


> Wow, great collection you got going on there. When I first saw the propagation tray with the crypts I thought they were all Bucephalanda! My next thought was Len is a baller!
> 
> Those jewel orchids are cool.
> 
> Looks like some aphids on the first Bucephalandra. Just wipe em off with your hands or use a stream of water to get them off. Submersing the plant for a few days will get rid of them too. I would examine your other plants closely to see if they are attacking any other plants.
> 
> I still don't know what the black stuff is. I noticed a few of my plants came in with it. Seems to be self limited and the plant just grew new leaves.


yeah, I'm going to have to try treating the tank for the aphids because the jewel orchids are in there as well, I'm going to test a ginger spray and powder I bought from an orchid supplier, it is supposed to repel pests and stop fungal and bacterial infections. The black stuff has actually spread pretty bad on my shine blue and green I submersed them and it seems to be dying back. I wish that was a tray of bucephalandra, lol...

Len


----------



## looking4roselines

yuck! you got aphids and the black slime. For the black fuss, you can rub them off with your fingers but it would be easier if you do it under water. For the crevices and areas where you cant reach, you can spray it off with a stream of water from a spray bottle.

I usually flood my tanks for a few hours each day when the aphids starts to go out of control. They dont seem to do much damage in my tanks and I think they pollinated one of my crypt spathes. Remember not to move pots to non infected tanks, even if it looks clean. I learned this the hard way.

Please make sure the plants are clean before putting them in your terrarium. They are pretty persistent 

The aglaonema looks nice but its a bit plain for me. Are you going to be using it as house plants?


----------



## hydrophyte

Those aphids are pretty easy to kill off with an overnight dunk or two. You have to be careful to clean the glass and the water surface while the water is up--they float--and squash every single one of them.


----------



## lbacha

My parents always have lady bugs in their attic so I may just go get some and throw them in there, they should make short work of any aphids in the tank

Len


----------



## looking4roselines

It's hard to keep the lady bugs alive or in your tank though. I went through this route before and notice they drown easily and ones that didn't will eventually find a way to escape


----------



## lbacha

Yeah I was wondering if they would survive, good thing is I can get a ton so maybe I fill the tank and let them eat away then not worry about it


----------



## chad320

Does a boiled garlic spray work for these? I know it works in a terrestrial garden but domes might be different.


----------



## lbacha

chad320 said:


> Does a boiled garlic spray work for these? I know it works in a terrestrial garden but domes might be different.


I'm not sure I've heard garlic works as well, I bought some stuff from repotme which is a huge orchid store and I'm hoping it works, I can't imagine that aquatic aroids should react poorly to stuff used on orchids.

Len


----------



## looking4roselines

I've tried some pesticides and it didnt get rid of the aphids. Instead, it killed a few of my crypts even though a light dosage was used and tested on a more common crypt. After this incident, I have never used any form of pesticide again.


----------



## lbacha

looking4roselines said:


> I've tried some pesticides and it didnt get rid of the aphids. Instead, it killed a few of my crypts even though a light dosage was used and tested on a more common crypt. After this incident, I have never used any form of pesticide again.


Was it a natural pesticide or a chemical, I'm really concerned about chemical becuase of the sensitivity of the leaves but a natural like ginger seems like it would be less toxic to the plants, it also kills fungus and bacteria so thats a plus as well.

Len


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## DogFish

A hololistic antifungal for humans, might work:

Oil of Oregano

"The aggressive antifungal properties of oregano oil work effectively against stubborn fungal infections such as candida and nail fungus. You may use the oregano oil internally for candida and both externally and internally for nail fungus. Mix a few drops with shampoo to get rid of dandruff or seborrhea, which are caused by fungal infection of the scalp. Take some to the locker room to eradicate athlete’s foot."

http://curingherbs.com/wild_oregano_oil.htm


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## lbacha

check out my new substrate it is a small version of normal hydroton (in the pic for refrence)


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## chad320

I have used this with less than satisfactory results. mine was straight hydroton (the small stuff). Are you going to ammend it or try to curculate water column ferts through it?


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## lbacha

chad320 said:


> I have used this with less than satisfactory results. mine was straight hydroton (the small stuff). Are you going to ammend it or try to curculate water column ferts through it?


I have a couple crypts and lagenandra in the larger size and they have done good I just planted some bolbitis and java fern in it to how it does


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## chad320

Well you are obviously quicker than me  I planted a few small crypts in it and they didnt do good. I bet the bigger stuff like laganandra, bigger crypts and ferns would do good tho.


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## DogFish

Len - You are so cutting edge!!!
:icon_cool


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## lbacha

Not really cut in edge but I like to experiment, and I have a mix of big and small crypts right now (ill take some pics tommorrow) I do add fertz to my water, I think the smaller will be easier, I'm really looking for a substrate that is easy to plant in and clean off the plant when you split it. I am serif some promising results in the tray of worm castings with wendtii planted in it

Len


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## looking4roselines

I know a Russian collector that uses hydroton for most of his rare Anubias. The results are astounding. You can dig up his thread at apc

Any updates on your plants grown in rock wool? I just bought a 1x4 slab and currently have some Anubias growing on it. I know that commercial growers use this stuff but I want to know how well this works from a hobbyist standpoint. Did you have to dose to the water column regularly?


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## lbacha

Yeah the Russian is who inspired me to use hydroton. As for rock wool it worked great for java fern but I've had less than stellar results with crypts, I really struggled with fertz I either went too high and had algae issues or too low and no growth, I'm having much better results with hydroton so I'm going to use rockwool to grow ferns and stuff like that. 

Len


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## klaus07

I have used several different types of substrates for emersed culture of anubias and what I see working the best in my situation is flora-max. I believe using it is very similar to using hydroton , the flora max is just irregularly shaped but otherwise the effect is the same. A stable substrate with excellent CEC, and rainage capacity. I have been adding those root fertilizer capsules to the substrate also. 

I have enjoyed aquatic/bog aroids for 45 yrs in this hobby, beginning with Cryptocoryne and later Anubias, followed by a host of others I never knew existed ten years ago . One thing I wonder about is the intensity and duration of light we give these jungle floor water loving aroids. I keep thinking we are giving them too intense light when we are growing them emersed. Many of my crypts when grown emersed take on a bronze color, and pattern. In the case of C spiralis its a pretty dramatic change. I grow my aroids in humidomes under 6500 k t8 fluorescent lights about 8 in above the top of the humidome. What would happen if i cut the light in half? by 3/4? 

Dan Poliak, a killifish hobbyist from France once told me he has Anubias in all his killie setups and ran a rather weak light for 4 hrs a day. 

Just wondering what everyone else's experiences are. Sorry if i am hijacking the thread a bit, I wish we had a place to store all our aroid threads so we wouldnt have to look all over for them. I keep finding posts I have missed because of the shear size of this site and the rapid frequency people post. 

Klaus


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## klaus07

This is just my opinion. I think when using rockwool, it is better to use it in emersed culture. I find the results underwater less than satisfactory. I think that has to do with the relatively good flow of water through the rockwool in emersed culture as opposed to the worse flow of water through rockwool in submersed culture. Now when I get a plant grown in rockwool and I want to grow it submersed, i remove the plant from the rockwool and put it in a different substrate. 

Klaus


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## klaus07

Len, 
Is that smaller hydroton whats being sold at the local box store in the reptile section?


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## lbacha

Klaus,

Your definitely not high jacking the thread and thanks for the input, I have wondered as well about light intensity and I'm planning to get a dimable t5 for my terrarium so I can experiment. The hydroton was from a company called repotme which is an orchid supplier. I'm not sure if it's the same as what they sell in the pet stores for reptiles. I like it a well because it's less messy to repot plants with I'm going to test adding root tabs but it may work better with just adding ferts to the water. I agree with the spirals my emersed plant is completely different than what I've seen submersed. I Agree we could have an aroid forum all it's own because there are some neat terrestrial ones as well.

Thanks again and keep posting I'll put some shots up this weekend I haven't been home in 2 weeks so I'm sure there will be some suprises in my tanks (hopefully all good)

Len


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## they call me bruce

I was going to try adding peat moss with aquasoil and eco complete equal amounts--my thinking is that the eco will give me the CEC and the peat would buffer the ph--talking buce here some are grown in 3-4 ph some nutral in the home land. Maybe there is a "clock" that needs to be awakened in the plant and this would do it.
{just a thought}
Bruce


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## lbacha

I posted alot of plant pics in my terrarium thread so you can check them out there these are the ones that arn't going to make it into the terrarium.

A pot full of Macodes petola









A container full of Macodes petola plantlets









Here is a goodyera sp.









Here is a tray of UG that I have check out all the little flowers on it.









Here is a Schismatogottis sp. "Frosty Kiss"









And finally a bucket of H pinnatifida and A reinekii (There are a couple Staurogyne "purple" in there now.









Enjoy Len


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## chad320

What are going to use as a growing medium? Or are you going to switch it up per each plants needs?


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## lbacha

chad320 said:


> What are going to use as a growing medium? Or are you going to switch it up per each plants needs?


 
As you can see I'm not very consistent with my growing mediums, I use uncut sphagnum for my jewel orchids, hydroton for ferns, crypts, lagenadras, and anubias, the tub with the pinnatifida and reinekii is just a bag of potting soil, there are some crypts in hydroton, I've used alot of AS malaya (I'm curing this stuff right now) but I will be changing to AS amazonia whenever a new box arrives in the states (they are saying the end of this month) The large pot of Macodes petola is in a standard bark based orchid mix, I use african violet mix for crypthansus and schitsmatoglottis, I have a tray with worm castings in it full of c wendtii tropica and red there is another tray with a seed starting mix that has staurogyne repens in it, for the mosses I'm growing I normally use uncut sphagnum but I'm experimenting with the water absorbing crystals you ad to potting soil. I also have some floramax that I've planted anubias, lagenadra and aglaonema in. As you can see I'm not very consistent, lol...

Len


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## lbacha

Oh yeah I almost forgot I use coco coir for philodendron cuttings.

Len


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## chad320

Wow Len, you really give them all the test shot huh? Have you used Malaya before and did anything do good for you in it?


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## lbacha

chad320 said:


> Wow Len, you really give them all the test shot huh? Have you used Malaya before and did anything do good for you in it?


I was using malaya in my aquarium and it worked really well for me so I used the leftovers (almost 2/3 of a bag) to pot all my buces and emersed crypts in. Unfortunatly most of the clear and white water crypts I have melted while the blackwater did fine. I also had occational issues with the buces that have caused me to transplant them. I thought it was the set-up but your statement on Nick thread got me to thinking that I have only had issues with Malaya nothing else. I'm going to get some Amazonia once big bags are back in the states and do some major transplanting ans see what happens. My guess is that the PH of malaya is too acidic when you don't have a whole aquarium of water to nutralize it. Just a guess for me.

Len


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## Bahugo

lbacha said:


> And finally a bucket of H pinnatifida and A reinekii (There are a couple Staurogyne "purple" in there now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Enjoy Len


Love the pics! Pinnatifida is a weed emersed though, watch the runners or else they will take over everything else (learned the hard way when i didn't watch it for like a week).


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## lbacha

Bahugo said:


> Love the pics! Pinnatifida is a weed emersed though, watch the runners or else they will take over everything else (learned the hard way when i didn't watch it for like a week).


It's a weed in my aquarium too, I trim it weekly and just throw it in here that where the reinekii came from as well


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## Bahugo

lbacha said:


> It's a weed in my aquarium too, I trim it weekly and just throw it in here that where the reinekii came from as well


Same it is a weed submersed too. I am going too honestly say it has been more of a weed emersed though. I know alot of people say it grows slower emersed, but i greatly disagree.


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## somewhatshocked

The mosses from your parents' lake are terrific.

Any updated shots of them?


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## lbacha

somewhatshocked said:


> The mosses from your parents' lake are terrific.
> 
> Any updated shots of them?


They didn't do well in the high humidity environment I put them in I may get some more next year


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## jccaclimber

Where is the water level relative to the substrate surface in the container with the UG? I'm having some issues with my emersed UG. It looked like it dried out shortly after I changed lighting, but it was very close to the water level. It's possible that I baked it, but I don't think the air in the container ever got above 80.


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## lbacha

jccaclimber said:


> Where is the water level relative to the substrate surface in the container with the UG? I'm having some issues with my emersed UG. It looked like it dried out shortly after I changed lighting, but it was very close to the water level. It's possible that I baked it, but I don't think the air in the container ever got above 80.


No water level just damp uncut sphagnum moss, this seem to work well for moss as well I put my RH probe in there and it was above 95% and there is always moisture on the lid, they must like it because they have been flowering for 2 months and if you look at the bottom there are roots everywhere, I wasn't sure how well this low tech method would work but it seems to be fine, I will say temps probably stay in the high 60's to low 70's though since it is on the bottom shelve and there is no heating at night.

Len


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## speedie408

M. goodyera is a sick looking orchid! Got one for sale/trade bro? 

Setups are coming along nicely.


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## lbacha

speedie408 said:


> M. goodyera is a sick looking orchid! Got one for sale/trade bro?
> 
> Setups are coming along nicely.


I should be able to take a cutting of it when I get back from Thailand I'll let you know it will be about three weeks

Len


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## sketch804

great looking setup with lots of great looking plants! Hows the c. Nurii doing? I didnt see a follow up on that one unless i missed it ha..


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## In.a.Box

should build a water system to feed your soil water every day keep it nice and wet.
I use the same system for growing plants indoor for aquarium plant grow and it work super.


coco nut soil stuff is pretty good, give it a try.


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## chad320

Any updates on this bro? Were have you been?


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## DogFish

I think Len is in Thailand visiting his Brother?


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## chad320

Thanks Frank. I hadnt heard from him in awhile and was hoping he was up to his usual good time self


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## lbacha

I'm alive I need to update my posts I just got back after being gone 3 weeks everything made it without any attention and I brought a few different mosses back with me


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## looking4roselines

Great to see you back and I hope you had a blast.

What else did you bring in other than moss?


Xue


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## chad320

Ohhhh *sits up* what did you get? Pics, pics, pics


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## looking4roselines

chad320 said:


> Ohhhh *sits up* what did you get? Pics, pics, pics


Yes. We need pics =)


Xue


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## lbacha

I wish I could say I brought a bunch back but my brother wasn't much into getting off the beaten path, we did visit a nice cloud forest at Doi Inthanon but it Is the dry season so everything was a little dry I did get a lot of samples of different mosses from there. I did grab some aquatic moss from Phuket though, I also grabbed some colocasia and alocasia tubers that I'm going to plant, on the good side though I had to change my flight for work and I now have a $800 credit I can only use on a flight to Bangkok and its only good for a yeah so I may plan a collecting trip in the fall..

Len


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## lbacha

Well guys I'm going to do some repotting this weekend, while Malaya has done good in my aquarium it hasn't been kind to my emersed crypts, I just bought 3 9l bags of new Amazonia so I will be switching over to that for thins that are struggling in Malaya, I promise I will take pics this weekend

Len


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## lbacha

I'm excited I just got a 67lb package of AS Amazonia and Sarawak sand now to switch some plants to new substrate, I also ordered some akadema so lots of choices now

Len


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## WeedCali

Just read through the whole thread. gotta say, holy cow! I love your setups man! I need a rack like you have for my emersed plants. Right now I only have a large tote with all my Crypts and Anubias in it.

Keep it up!


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## lbacha

I really need to make a list of what is and isn't still around, the rack and tank along with a tub under the tank are there but whats in them has changed alot. 

Len


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## Jeffww

Are you using purely hydroton as substrate? Or are you layering it over another soil. What about sphagnum? Do you add fertilizer or something?


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## lbacha

Jeffww said:


> Are you using purely hydroton as substrate? Or are you layering it over another soil. What about sphagnum? Do you add fertilizer or something?


For the pots with hydroton it is all hydroton as for fertz I add them to the water sphagnum is the same way 

Len


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## Jeffww

Do you use the same concentration as tank ferts? I'm curious because I'm tired of having tanks of standing water in my room...it drives up the humidity and leaves a bad smell.....


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## lbacha

Jeffww said:


> Do you use the same concentration as tank ferts? I'm curious because I'm tired of having tanks of standing water in my room...it drives up the humidity and leaves a bad smell.....


I use shultz's houseplant fertilizer at about 1/4 to 1/2 the concentration it calls for. It comes with a dropper in the lid and I use one squirt pet liter of water


Len


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## lbacha

My first Crypt spathe has popped up on my C Cordata "Thailand". Hopfully this is a sign of more to come.



















Len


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## looking4roselines

Very healthy growth. Mine usually flowers once a month once they started flowering. 




Xue


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## wabisabi

Wow Len, what are you feeding that thing? Steroids :hihi:


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## lbacha

I'm actually only giving it rootmed caps, it's in a 10g with a heater ad the standard glass aquarium lid. I add a capful of tetra blackwater extract every couple weeks and this yank seems to be doing better than my 40 breeder I have an albida, Cordata "rosanvig", zukali and yellow ring that are all showing great growth. I want to get some other blackwater species to put in there and see how they do.

Len


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## lbacha

The spathe has opened yippee, my first crypt flower.

Len


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## looking4roselines

Very nice dude. Is this the cordata saimensis or thailand? Both look very similiar in appearance as far as color and shape is concerned. But the saimensis has a smaller spathe than the thailand.

I took a day off today to finish my plumbing. You have a lot more plants for your emersed setup by the end of next week.


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## lbacha

It's the Thailand I got from you about 6 months ago the C bukit ibam "yellow ring" I got from you a few months ago is in the same tank and doing good as well it has three new plants all the same size as the original, I'm hoping it sends a spathe this summer as well. I'm looking forward to adding some nice new plants, I'll be in San Fran till Thursday then headed home to some nice crypts and buces.

Len


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## lbacha

My first Lagenandra (thwaitsii) to bloom.

Len


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## EntoCraig

Love this thread....


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## speedie408

Lookin good brother!


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## lbacha

I came home to a nice selection of new plants

Schismatoglottis calypratas "dappled drop tongue"








Piptospatha ridleyi








Philodendron "Burle Marx"








Philodendron "hope"








Epipremnum pinnatum this boy gets really big and has neat pinnate leaves









Enjoy Len


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## looking4roselines

Great job on the lagenandra bloom. Mine was about to open but it melted before it was able to fully bloom

Nice finds


Xue


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## lbacha

Some of the simplest setups produce the best results, this just has about 1"-1.5" of topsoil in the bottom and nothing else, I mist it every few weeks and add osmocote capsules every couple months the plants grow like weeds in here and all I have is a couple cfl bulbs over it. I'll be posting a FS add sometime this upcoming week from it

It has
Alternanthera reinekii
H pinnatifida
H corymbosa stricta
Staurogyne sp. "purple"

Len


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## looking4roselines

lbacha said:


> Some of the simplest setups produce the best results, this just has about 1"-1.5" of topsoil in the bottom and nothing else, I mist it every few weeks and add osmocote capsules every couple months the plants grow like weeds in here and all I have is a couple cfl bulbs over it. I'll be posting a FS add sometime this upcoming week from it
> 
> It has
> Alternanthera reinekii
> H pinnatifida
> H corymbosa stricta
> Staurogyne sp. "purple"
> 
> Len


I noticed the results of your setup and stole your idea. I started my own setup a few weeks ago when i had some schismattoglottis that had no where to go. Results are very satisfying given that they received absolutely no attention. They're planted in aqua soil and I do not mist or dose. There are only moist sphagnum moss to maintain some humidity

The tub is sitting on a east facing window receiving morning sunlight 

Sorry to hijack your thread Len haha






























Xue


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## lbacha

looking4roselines said:


> I noticed the results of your setup and stole your idea. I started my own setup a few weeks ago when i had some schismattoglottis that had no where to go. Results are very satisfying given that they received absolutely no attention. They're planted in aqua soil and I do not mist or dose. There are only moist sphagnum moss to maintain some humidity
> 
> The tub is sitting on a east facing window receiving morning sunlight
> 
> Sorry to hijack your thread Len haha
> View attachment 48879
> 
> View attachment 48880
> 
> View attachment 48881
> 
> View attachment 48882
> 
> 
> 
> Xue


No problem, it is so simple it's crazy, I have some smaller ones with crypts in them and they are doing better than my glass tank emersed setups, I got the idea from the zapin's style but I didn't see why you needed trays withing the container.

Len


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## lbacha

Check out my dwarf banana, this is as big as it gets. I like the tropical Asian look it adds to my apartment








Here is my Blood banana plant - musa zebrina sumantrana it gets 5-7' tall and I plan on putting it behind my terrarium once it gets bigger.









Len


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## looking4roselines

Doesn't that blood banana get over 6-7 ft tall?


Xue


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## lbacha

looking4roselines said:


> Doesn't that blood banana get over 6-7 ft tall?
> 
> 
> Xue


Yes it does, it will probably stay a little shorter since I'm growing it indoors though.

Len


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## saddletramp

Looks like we are all nuts!
Years ago, whe we had over 2000 gallons of fish tanks in the basement, we had thes things bloom and fruit up in the house. We ran two dehumidifiers but the humidity was still very high.
Then we found mold on the exterior walls behind cabinets, etc. during a cold January. Water was dripping from our electrical conduits. Yikes! We did get the problem solved, but it was a nightmare. Everything was blooming -Anthurium, rare Dracaenas, Arisaemas, Amorphophallus and the list goes on.
Do we get more sensible as we mature. My wife says that is not the case with men.
Nice Musas!! Bill


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## rainbuilder

Wow. I want your setup for myself. I love that dwarf banana tree!


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## klaus07

I found this site about pollinating aroids. I hope it isnt too off topic, but I found it interesting.
http://www.exoticrainforest.com/Natural and artificial pollination in aroids.html


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## lbacha

klaus07 said:


> I found this site about pollinating aroids. I hope it isnt too off topic, but I found it interesting.
> http://www.exoticrainforest.com/Natural and artificial pollination in aroids.html


Nice article I visit that site a lot but hadn't seen that article before, 

By the way as for spathes my Bakoa lucens spathe still hasnt opened it has been 3 weeks now, my bucephalandra never make it that long. My Aglaonema simplex on the other hand has thrown 2 more spathes out. 

Thanks Len


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## chad320

lbacha said:


> My first Lagenandra (thwaitsii) to bloom.
> 
> Len


Nice job on the Piptos and Lags  I have this one and im wondering if you ever got a nice shot of the inflouresence? I have it submerged with an insane amount of Co2 and its growing good but my piece was just a baby


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## n00dl3

I see that you're going emersed UG and mosses on sphagnum. How often do you fertilize them?


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## iter

This was probably answered already, but how many bulbs do you use on your racks (for each pair of humidity domes or 10 gallon tanks)?

Also, I see that your glass bottom in the 40 breeder is relatively clean, does the clay pots you use have solid bottoms (no holes for drainage, etc.) to prevent the AS Malay from escaping?


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## johnson18

Wow! I just read this whole thread! So amazing, so many awesome plants! I think I've been inspired!


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