# BGA cures?



## susantroy1 (Jul 25, 2007)

Geoff,

I would suggest double dosing with Flourish Excell... only for as long as your algae hangs around after that drop back to the normal dosing schedule and you'll be fine. I had the same issue because I had a hard time getting my C02 distirbution set. once I got that I have not had a nother crop up. (remember Algae if from an imbalance of C02/lighting/Ferts or a combination. Find your weakness in these areas and then you'll be that much further down the road to an algae free tank.

P.S. I read you have a DIY C02 sys.... Very dificult to have constant C02 levels. I'd check there first.

Good Luck Troy


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## Geoff C (Aug 1, 2007)

thanks Troy, ill go buy some excell tomorrow and give it a try

will dosing excell have any effect on my fish?? i have gold and blue rams some ottos and amano shrimp.

Im new to planted tanks within the last few months so im still gettin an understanding of the dosing, i currently dose with floursh, flourish trace, flourish iron and nutrafin NPK. use bottle directions for amounts.


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## Spacefly (Jun 25, 2007)

Never heard of dosing excel on BGA/Cyanobacteria. Did you mean BBA?

What is your Nitrate level reading at, If its at zero or close to it, that may be the root of your problem.
IMO, you have 2 options to get rid of it at this point. Either use a medication like Emycin, or use the blackout method. 
I have used the blackout method myself, and It worked like a charm, didnt have much of a negative impact on my plants, they perked right up after a day or two, and the fish were just fine.

Also since raising my Nitrates, and keeping them at around 10ppm, I havent had an outbreak since.

I'm not expecting the excel to work since its not considered an algae. If you do dose excel make sure to turn off your filter and use something like a syringe to spot treat it,that way you can target the source much better.
Your fish should be fine as long as you dont overdose it too much. Just be careful some plants dont like excel, and they tend to melt.

Here is a good arcticle on BGA/Cyanobacteria
http://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/reefref/cyanobacteria.html


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## Geoff C (Aug 1, 2007)

thanks space, i think my best action would be to go buy a nitrate test kit and see if thats the problem. Currently only have tests for ammonia ph nitrite gh and kh that i bought as a kit.

if nitrate is my problem how do i raise it safely?


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## Spacefly (Jun 25, 2007)

You can dose your tank with Potassium Nitrate KN03, you can get it online at certain places, but its been tough for me to get around here since 911 for its potential in bomb making.
I just use Flourish Nitrogen from the flourish line of products to raise mine, just dose it slowly over a few days to get it at a good level and check with a nitrate test kit over the course of dosing. I keep mine at 10ppm for the plants and to prevent another BGA outbreak.
Your safe up to about 20ppm, but my plants never needed that much Nitrates.


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## Geoff C (Aug 1, 2007)

Great thanks for the advice Space.


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## Geoff C (Aug 1, 2007)

I tested my nitrate and its around 80ppm i think( the test color chart reads 5 10 20 50 and 110 and im somewhere in the middle of 50 and 110). 

I might try the blackout cure if it gets worse.

I was also wondering if a UV sterilizer would help kill it?


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## Spacefly (Jun 25, 2007)

Wow, 80ppm is extremely high, What brand of test kit is this? and is it liquid drops,or a paper dip? 
I would be more worried about your Nitrates being that high than your algae at this point if your housing fish in there. 
Do you do weekly water changes? and what does your tap water test at? I've never used a UV sterilizer before, I havent any clue if that helps with your BGA issue, I know its great for green water tho. 

If you are housing fish, can you specify how many gallons your tank is, and what type of fish/how many you have in there. 

If it turns out that you tapwater reads 0 nitrates, or a low nitrate level,and your tank water is that high, it may be your fishload, or a tank that has a high buildup of fish waste from not gravel vaccuming,or changing water weekly.


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## Geoff C (Aug 1, 2007)

Its a hagen nutrafin liquid drop test. In the test instructions it says that up to 110ppm wont hurt fresh water fish but over 20 will hurt invertabrates in salt water setups. 
Ive been using nutrafin NPK dosing but im gonna skip it this week and see if i can get the nitrates closer to 40 or 50 ppm where the test says is a good level for fresh water.

My tank is a 29 gallon, for fish i have 2 blue rams, 2 gold rams, 4 ottos, 2 small pitbull plecos(best algae eaters around ), 5 amano shrimps and 1 little panda cory

I do about a 30% weekly water change and dont vaccume the gravel because its a plant substrate that shouldnt be vaccumed.

ill test my tap water right now and update this post with the results

tested it and it reads 0 ppm


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## Spacefly (Jun 25, 2007)

Good idea to cutback the dosing to see if things change, I'm not familiar with that test kit and how it reads, but in general you should keep.
Nitrates below 50 pm at all times, preferably below 25 ppm. If you are breeding fish, or are battling algae growth, keep nitrates below 10 ppm.

Fish poo makes a great fert, but there are some downsides to it, such as algae,"this may have caused your BGA outbreak"' and a high ammonia range, and high nitrates down the other end of the cycle.

You may need to increase the amount of oxygen in your tank,and increase the flow of water. BGA likes to grow in an area with little or no water movement.


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## Geoff C (Aug 1, 2007)

i used to have the filter outlet pointed at the glass so there wasnt much water movement cuz i didnt like it pushing my plants around, but i recently moved it so theres a good current over where the BGA is, hopefully that will help some.

Thanks again for all you help, im learnin lots


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## Spacefly (Jun 25, 2007)

No prob, just trying to narrow it down to what the cause may be. I hate BGA, stuff smells horrible,and makes me gag:icon_lol:


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## Geoff C (Aug 1, 2007)

this is my first problem with algae of any kind so far in this tank, ive been really lucky i geuss because its definatially not my vast knowledge of aquariums :icon_conf . Just do a weekly glass cleaning to keep the trace amounts of dust off my glass but thats it besides this new problem. 

Right now the BGA isnt too unsightly its really only on my glosso which doesnt even look that bad, i just want to find out the cause so it doesnt get worse, which if i dont change something is bound to happen.


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## Spacefly (Jun 25, 2007)

Yeah, this stuff can overwhelm your tank in no time. Do you keep the mulm in your tank because you use regular gravel?, and do you use a nutrient based substrate like flourite or eco complete? 

I'm starting to think the buildup of waste may be the culprit right there, and with a combo of water flow/lack of oxygen. 
You may also want to give your filter a good cleaning. Definatly get a gravel vac and get as much of that BGA out as you can, Turn off your filter and try not to spread it around if its only in one spot. You dont want any freefloating particles seeding your tank.


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## Geoff C (Aug 1, 2007)

im using a red sea flora base plant substrate which is nutrient based, the pet stores in my area swear by it, and im really lucky to have a few very good pet stores nearby.

just gave my filter a good cleaning the other day, got all wet in the process:icon_frow next time ill remember to turn it off before opening :hihi:


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## dogg76 (Jan 31, 2004)

You can also spot treat with peroxide...It's what I use to kill bga, It works every time, and I have seen no negative effects yet...You could try it as a temporary treatment till you get your fert levels straightened out.....


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## clddleopard (Feb 22, 2004)

BGA is my personal cross to bear with one of my fish tanks, and I've tried just about everything. Erythromycin might work, but the hydrogen peroxide would be the first thing to try if it's just in one spot right now. It worked great for me in one of my outbreaks. There's also a product called chemi clean which is for marine tanks, but a guy at my lfs recommended it and I tried it on a really badly overrun tank (slime everywhere!!) and it worked. Didn't hurt plants or fish. I'm really bad at the planted tank thing because I tend to be bipolar about it--super maintenance girl for awhile, then let everything fall apart. That's why I've had problems with BGA _so_ many times!


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## Geoff C (Aug 1, 2007)

ill have to try some peroxide and ill look in to the chemi-kleen thanks for the advice.


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## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

O.k. based on my own observations and experimentation as per my signature tank, I am skeptical that low nitrates is the stimulus for Blue Green Algae. It so happens that my nitrates were tested at 20-40 ppm and I still ended up with a smidgen of Blue Green Algae. Fluorish Excel won't prevent or kill BGA. Been there done that, it doesn't work on BGA, period. Your best defense against Blue Green Algae is an Ultra Violet Sterilizer. In two different tanks, I have one tank that has repeated bouts of Blue Green Algae, but has no UV sterilizer. And yeah, everything is supposedly balanced as per ferts and "ideal" water parameters and otherwise both tanks are equal with respect to everything else. The one tank that has a UV sterilizer developed a smidgen of BGA and that was mostly confined to one rotala indica stem at the top of the water, it did not spread to the rest of the tank. I removed and discarded the stem and the BGA has not returned. A UV sterilizer may not be a be all end all for all kinds of algae, but based on my experience and observations, it tends to keep most algae and BGA at bay. I would never set up another tank without a UV sterlizer. 

Just my 2 cents, based on my own experimentation and observations.


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## dogg76 (Jan 31, 2004)

I am going to have to disagree with you about the uv keeping bga at bay Homer....I have a uv on my tank and I still get the occasional spot of bga. IMO, a uv has no effect on bga. It is good for free floating algae (Green water) and parasites (Ich).


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## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

dogg76 said:


> I am going to have to disagree with you about the uv keeping bga at bay Homer....I have a uv on my tank and I still get the occasional spot of bga. IMO, a uv has no effect on bga. It is good for free floating algae (Green water) and parasites (Ich).


That's fine. Perhaps my choice of words "keeping bga at bay" was wrong. As, I said a "smidgen" of BGA developed on the tank with it, only a "smidgen" no more no less, and that smidgen never spread tank wide. The tank without it, with all things being equal, develops more than a smidgen and has repeated bouts and also has a chronic brown dust algae problem that the one with the UV sterilizer never developed(again with all things being equal, fertilization, lighting, plant mass/types of plants, photo-period, same tap water, etc.,) Both tanks are side by side in my room, so changes in the tanks are easiy observed, and yeah tested nutrients and parameters are within the "optimal/ideal" ranges that people state are required to prevent any algae. Also, again based on my experimentation, I have yet to see any other form of algae develop in my experimental tank, and I believe that the UV sterilizer may play a role in this. The UV sterilizer kills algae spores before they can gain a foothold and create an algae bloom in your tank. It is not a be all end all for all types of algae but it works. Like I said, those are my observations and experience based on my own set up. So why would I use a UV sterilizer if a smidgen of BGA develops. Quite simply, why wouldn't I use one if I find that a equally set up tank without one has repeated and chronic bouts of Green Blue Algae(even with more than enought nitrates and good tank maintenance and fertilization) and the one with it hardly develops one?? The fact that BGA is caused by a free floating bacteria and a UV sterlizer kills a large portion of free floating bacteria, it does not surprise me that you would see very little if any BGA in a UV sterilizer tank and that the BGA would not migrate and "takeover" a tank which makes it easier to contain than using a blackout and throwing in an antibiotic to deal with a BGA takeover. 

I set up my anti-algae experimental tank to test the value of such measures. I believe the best way to find a answer to a question and judge the value of something is to experiment and try for yourself.

Regards


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Keep tank clean, pruned, decent light routine, good water changes, well dosed, good CO2 etc, then you do not have many algae issues at all. 

I can induce BGA in inert sediment tanks by reducing NO3 near 0 using a calibrated test kit. If you raise the NO3 back to 20ppm, the BGA will still be there once induced...........having NO3 at one point in time does not suggets that high NO3 prevent it once you already have it.

Unless you tested before and after, you are measuring the aftermath, not the root cause. Which means you looked for BGA on purpose and knew what to look for.

Very few folks do that.
Then you have the test kit error/calibration issue as well.


Even still...........low NO3 is only one method to induce it, there may be more 

Getting rid of it and preventing it from returning is fairly easy.
Blackouts/antibiotics, water changes-filter cleanings, KNO3 dosing.

BO and antibiotics certainly kill it in about the same time frame, preventing inducement thereafter is your job.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

plantbrain said:


> ...Unless you tested before and after, you are measuring the aftermath, not the root cause. Which means you looked for BGA on purpose and knew what to look for.
> 
> Very few folks do that.
> Then you have the test kit error/calibration issue as well...
> ...


Actually I have logged my findings as per my setup and the nitrates were always high...before and after the smidgen of BGA develped. There are no test kit error/calibration issues at play. The test kits were calibrated and to be sure I used 3 different brands of test kits, with the same results - high nitrates before and after the development of BGA, so I don't buy into this notion of lack of nitrates being a stimulus for BGA. Perhaps in this case other factors were involved and I agree on that, but the lack of nitrates stuff just does not fit my findings and observations and that's what I go by. 

Regards


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

I can consistency induced BGA, and have done so 20+ times using low NO3.
So have others.

It(adding more KNO3 there after) also resolves most folk's reinfections. 
Do you dose KNO3 or do you dose based solely on the test kit reading?

My advice would be not to place so much trust into the test kits and observe the plants more. You may not think there's room for error, but do not believe everything you think, confirm it.

Do a 3 day blackout(no light at all/cover with 2-3 layers of trash bags etc), water changes, clean it out as best you can, then start dosing more KNO3, look at CO2 real good and make sure there is plenty etc.
Clean filters etc.

Have you done this and kept up on things?


Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

plantbrain said:


> I can consistency induced BGA, and have done so 20+ times using low NO3.
> So have others.
> 
> It(adding more KNO3 there after) also resolves most folk's reinfections.
> ...


I have done the 3 day blackout on more than one occasion, followed by cleanups, and dosing more KN03 through PPS classic. c02 is through Hagen's C02 kit. The BGA appears to come back within 1-2 months. At first, I was beginning to wonder if it was BGA, but yesterday during my weekly water change, I picked some bits up to manually remove them and it caused a burning sensation on my fingers, like bleach. I immediately washed my hands with soap and water but the burning sensation is still there today. Next time I will use gloves.

Thanks for the suggestions, plantbrain, I will again try what you recommended and will try in combination with EI fert - since I do 50% weekly water changes anyway to see what happens.

Regards.


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## Carissa (Aug 19, 2007)

What worked for me: Major gravel vac (actually removing all the substrate), reducing lighting by half, dose ei.


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## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

Carissa said:


> What worked for me: Major gravel vac (actually removing all the substrate), reducing lighting by half, dose ei.


I may just tear the tank apart, chuck the old substrate out, try and disinfect(likely with 1 part bleach to 19 part water solution) all the plants and salvage the plants that I can and rebuild. I will either use ADA soil and sand combined with DIY C02 and EI fert, or just go the Low Tech or Natural Planted Tank way. This gives me a chance to experiment with something different.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

DIY CO2........this is the Achilles Heel.
That can help induce a number algae.

I'd change the brew weekly.
Really stay on top of that, you only have a 20 gallon tank, a size that I am all too familiar with and have used for decades, with DIY CO2.............

I do not think sterilizing ever works to resolve any algae issue.
Waste of time.

See the DIY internal CO2 venturi reactor. Make one.
Change the brew weekly, add 1 cup sugar, 1/4-1/2 teaspoon yeast, 6 cups warm water, try and keep the room or the brew constant temp, this will produce constant CO2.

You do this, I do not think CO2 will be an issue, I've done this for this sized tank for decades. 

Temp changes can dramatically alter the CO2 production rate and thus your tank's CO2 ppm supply. Many assume otherwise or snobs that only use Gas tanks and never consider the woes of DIY..........
They think it's all about nutrients:icon_roll 

You do not have a lot of light, so that's good.

I changed my 20 galllon tank today, I did about 10 full gallons and it took me 8 minutes to drain and fill using a modified DIY Python type water changer.
I dosed after and that's it.

I am also much better able to clean and prune with lower water level.
Some methods will run the nutrients lower than others if you follow the routines literally. EI will target higher levels, PPS targets the lower ranges, EI+PMDD liquid targets in between.

Still, neither is bound by those ranges, you can and should dose a bit more or less and see how the plants respond. Add more till you no longer see a positive response. Add less till you no longer see the same respond.

And so on.

You dose anything richer or leaner, more frequent or less frequent.
plants are pretty flexible over a wide range, regardless of what other folks like to suggest..........

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## synodontis (Aug 21, 2007)

I've had an issue with BGA until I found out how to get rid of it due to this site.

I covered my entire 48" x 18" x 24" acrylic tank with a large pond liner, added in an airstone powered by a whispher 700 airpump, turn off the CO2 and left it for 4 days. All BGA gone, changed 70% of the water and resumed EI dosing (thanks to www.theplantedtank.co.uk for the guidelines).

It's now the third day and I hope to never see that damn thing again. I also ditched my Dennerle fertilisers.


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

I have been battling BGA for some time now. It isn't out of control, but it isn't going away either. I am seriously considering using the meds at this point. I have gone the route of doing the blackouts, major water changes, etc. I have blacked out my tank for months at a time. After the long term blackouts, the BGA is gone but then it comes right back within a few weeks.



Homer_Simpson said:


> Actually I have logged my findings as per my setup and the nitrates were always high...before and after the smidgen of BGA develped. There are no test kit error/calibration issues at play. The test kits were calibrated and to be sure I used 3 different brands of test kits, with the same results - high nitrates before and after the development of BGA, so I don't buy into this notion of lack of nitrates being a stimulus for BGA. Perhaps in this case other factors were involved and I agree on that, but the lack of nitrates stuff just does not fit my findings and observations and that's what I go by.
> 
> Regards



Homer, either I have really tough hands or you are dealing with some other type of organisim. I have never experienced the burning sensation for a second much less two days. Maybe there are different strains of BGA? One thing that is very distintive about my BGA is the smell. You can work all day long in the tank and not smell anything unusual, but then you pick up a tiny bit of BGA with a set of tweezers and whew. The stuff groing in my tank is smelly to say the least. You don't smell it though until it is out of the water.


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## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

BiscuitSlayer said:


> ...Homer, either I have really tough hands or you are dealing with some other type of organisim. I have never experienced the burning sensation for a second much less two days. Maybe there are different strains of BGA? One thing that is very distintive about my BGA is the smell. You can work all day long in the tank and not smell anything unusual, but then you pick up a tiny bit of BGA with a set of tweezers and whew. The stuff groing in my tank is smelly to say the least. You don't smell it though until it is out of the water.


BiscuitSlayer, you may well be right. When I first got into this hobby, I could not tell algae from sh*it. I had this green algae growing in a 2.5 gallon tank and I kept thinking that it was string algae. I later discovered that the strong musty odor coming from it likely meant that it was not string algae at all, but Blue Green Algae. It was the exact same algae that formed in the 10 gallon in question and it gave off the same type of very musty odor, which led me to believe that I was dealing with Blue Green Algae. The problem seemed to get worse when I ran 54 watts compact fluorescent 6500 k daylight over a 10 gallon for experimental purposes. When I reduced lighting to 30 watts total, placed lighting on "noon-burst" so one 15 watt tube came on for 5 hours and the other 15 watt tube came on after 5 hours with both tubes running a total of 10 hours, manually removed and siphoned off as much of the algae as I could, implemented more consistent DIY c02(with weekly brew changes) and increased water changes to 2 times/week it receded and has pretty much vanished and has not yet returned.

Prior to this, I too tried numerous blackouts and the BGA would disappear, only to return within two weeks.


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## Carissa (Aug 19, 2007)

Has anyone gotten bga while dosing ei and doing the 50% water changes?


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## synodontis (Aug 21, 2007)

I dose EI, doing 50% water change weekly. I now have no BGA algae after getting rid of it with the 4 day black out. Pictures will come soon when I nab the camera off my friend.


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## macblack (Nov 6, 2007)

you may also use erythromycin with the combination of a total black out for 3 days. you'll never see it again


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

There's no need to use a blackout if you use EM, works in the same time frame.

Unlike EM, blackout shows if you resolved and cured the underlying problem much faster............

EM makes it nearly impossible to figure out the root cause, and many do not have access to antibiotics for aquariums, as they should be used to deal with human infectious diseases, not pet trade, food supply etc.

Anyone looking to keep planted tanks over time should always look at the root cause for plant growth and algae. 

You do not beat algae with pills alone. Most species of algae that you cannot kill with pills.............

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## ringram (Jan 19, 2005)

I had a bad case of BGA when started my first high-tech tank about ~3 yrs ago. I ended up removing or cleaning off all affected leaves, cleaning out the filter/filter pads, turning over affected substrate and doing a large water change.
The problem seemed to present itself when nitrates bottomed out. It seemed that because of the high light (5.5wpg), the nitrates were getting consumed faster than I thought. I started dosing more, plus turned up the Co2 a little. After doing a blackout for a couple days, it was on it's way to recovery. 

I've never heard of EM, but it sounds like you can try that and skip the blackout.

-Ryan


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## macblack (Nov 6, 2007)

I agree that these kind of solutions are not the best (you don't solve the root of the problem as our friend wrote earlier) but it's quick and it works. Another quick thing to do is adding beach on the infected area. You'll be amazed how BGA turns in small black pieces


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Or permangnate or H2O2 can be added for spot cleaning.

Generalized causes: low plant growth, sediment dirty/filter needs cleaning, improved circulation/flow/current, and bottoming out of the NO3 levels.

So if you do standard maintenance, good stable dosing, general care for the plants, algae really is not an issue, most all algae.

Now BO or EM does not grow plants............nor helps them in any real way to grow better.

Same with H2O2, Bleach, permangnate, copper sulfate etc............

So simply suggesting one thing to "cure" algae is short sighted and really does not help, it's just a temporary "band aid". All these things do is kill algae, they do not address the issue at hand, poor plant growth which leads to algae.

Algae is a secondary symptom of poor plant growth.
Many assume since their plants still look okay, that they are just not growing quite as well, but are okay, that things are fine, but they stop growing if there's no CO2, or no PO4, or no NO3 also.

Just stay on top of things, watch the plant's growth, watch for good pearling etc.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

Has anyone had Blue Green Algae return after dosing Erythromycin to get rid of it?? I have read quite a few posts where people claimed that the BGA never returned after dosing Erythromycin. I guess I will test that theory out. I used it in my 10 gallon after trying all other solutions mentioned which failed quite miserably at eradicatingng it. So, far it has been a few weeks since I used EM and the BGA has not returned. Let's see what happens over the long haul as I was unable to locate the cause and everything everyone says should prevent BGA was in place prior to it appearing.


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