# Can anyone tell me what this is, please? (More pics added)



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Hydra.


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## CeeBee (Jan 16, 2009)

It's not hydra. These things don't move, not at all. Hydra wave about with the water flow. They're also not totally flat against the surface they attach to (like the things in my tank). Hydra attach with a small stalk and then the tentacles are free to catch passing food.

I'm not trying to be awkward - I appreciate your taking the time to respond, Epic :thumbsup: However, I've had hydra (didn't properly clean some used gravel I bought - very stupid of me) and killed them off with Fenbendazole, so I'm pretty certain it's not them.


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Try this: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/shrimp-other-invertebrates/40061-whats-bug-how-recognize-them.html


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## CeeBee (Jan 16, 2009)

Thanks Epic.

Read through the pages, and checked out the pics, but still nothing that looks or sounds like these growths. They don't move at all - they appear on the glass as a white smudge (the shape and size varies radically, but never exceeds about 2mm) and then the tendrils grow in. The really do look like the branches of trees in winter - although they can encircle the central, main growth. Apart from the tendrils growing in, there's no other movement at all.

They clean off really easily, but then they just come back.

I'll see if I can get some better pics.

Cheers for trying to help me out though - I appreciate it.

Caroline


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## CeeBee (Jan 16, 2009)

Some more pics - hopefully a bit better. If it might be helpful, the tank is still relatively new (couple of months) and although I'm starting to get the tank balance right, I'm still getting a few algae problems; 

When you first look, you might just notice the central mass. If you look a little wider though, you'll see the tendrils I'm talking about - they're quite faint.


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## pealow (May 11, 2008)

Some king of fungus???? Is it attached to the glass?


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## CeeBee (Jan 16, 2009)

Yes, Pealow - it's attached to the glass. It always starts in one particular corner and spreads from there. The growths don't seem to be attached to each other, and the shapes of them are random. They always start at the bottom on the glass and then spead up and out in what appears to be, a totally random way. They never get very far, because I do a 50% water change every week and clean the glass (I've been getting dust algae, although it's calming down now).

The central bit of the growth looks a little like spiders web - but scrunched up a bit.

It'll turn out to be something really simple no doubt - but it's got me totally foxed. I've trawled around and can't find anything out. I'm just hoping that someone on here or PFK will recognise it and be able to advise.


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## t0p_sh0tta (Jan 24, 2008)

I had something similar, but it moved with the current. I came to the conclusion that it was some sort of Bryozoa that stayed for about 3 weeks and suddenly disappeared.


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## fishdweeb (Nov 3, 2007)

fish snot?


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## CeeBee (Jan 16, 2009)

Thanks FD - mystery solved, case closed  

TS - it's been appearing since I set the tank up. It consistently shows up about 2 days after a water change. No movement whatsoever though (apart from the obvious growth).

I've had no responses from the other forum, so I may have to put it down to fish snot afterall!


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

CeeBee said:


> Thanks FD - mystery solved, case closed


Ugh! At first, I took you seriously and thought you were going to tell us you figured out what it is. Is there a technical term for fish snot? :hihi:

I'm very curious myself, but have no idea what it could be. A fungus is the closest I can think of.

Can you tell us more about your tank? Maybe a FTS so we can see all of it? What decor, fish, inverts do you have in the tank? How old is the tank? What did you do to the tank just before these things started showing up? Do you dose the tank with anything or have you dosed it with anything in the past? Any fish, invert or plant deaths? Melting? _Anything_?

You have taken excellent pictures of it so if anyone has seen it before, they will be sure to identify it. I have sometimes emailed professors and researchers at various universities and have had excellent luck with them helping me to identify things. Maybe look for someone working on fungus in aquatic settings and ask them?

Have you thought of not scraping it off each week to see what it does from there?

If it is a fungus, there would have to be something it's using for food which I _think_ would be some kind of decaying matter. Maybe something came in on driftwood or rocks? Any more information you can provide might offer a key to identifying what it is. I'm very curious to know!


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## CeeBee (Jan 16, 2009)

You might just regret asking for all of that, Complexity – because I’m going to tell you all about it 

Tank is a Fluval Osaka 155 (155 litres minus décor etc)
It’s been set up for about 2 months
Inhabitants are; 
5 Peal Danios
5 Leopard Danios
10 Amano shrimp
9 Cardinal Tetra
1 Siamese Algae Eater
No deaths, no illness, no signs of stress

Water stats (but this is only from a test kit and I know that they’re not great)
P04 1.5
Ca 100
N03 approx 30
NH3 0
PH 7.2
N02 0
FE 0.25

I’ve got vals, a few crypts, anubias, some kind of watersprite, frobit, amazon swords, flame moss and what I think might be amaranth redroot (but only because I’ve seen a picture on PT which looks just like it – to me anyway).

The only other decoration is a large piece of bog wood. This came from the sumps of a LFS who have a great reputation here in the UK. I also wonder whether this might have been the source of some of my trouble?

I’m running pressurised C02 and have it cranked up high enough to keep the drop checker on the edge of turning yellow – it’s a sickly green at the moment. No signs of stress on the fish. Each time I tweak it, I give it a couple of days to settle in.

I use external filtration (Fluval 205) and a small circulation pump (a Koralia Nano) to help keep things moving and force the C02 back into my water column.

EI dose using powders and change 50% of the water weekly.

Feed the fish daily on a variety of foods – although nothing frozen or live. Once a day and always leave them eager for more to ensure that I don’t over do it.

Substrate is Tetra Complete with about an inch of gravel. The gravel has been the source of many woes and lots more grey hair for me. I bought used gravel, didn’t wash it properly and have had all sorts of problems….. Which I’ll tell you a bit more about now (hope you’re sitting comfortably, you might want to get a cup of tea)

Problems past and present; 
Hydra – hundreds of them
Planaria 
Both of the above treated with Panacur which solved the problem
BBA – under control but not gone. I get this is 2 distinct colours – grey green on the substrate and reddish on the wood.
BGA – not too bad, but will do a blackout if it doesn’t come under control soon
Dust algae – decreasing dramatically

I tried OD’ing Flourish Excel to get the BBA under control – did this for 14 days and I ended up trying it twice. Didn’t work either time. Vals melted a lot (although they’re now recovering). The crypts melted a little too.

Tank pic is below (excuse the flame moss tied down with reams of cotton - I only put it in yesterday). The crypt on the right is continuing to grow well. The ones in the left of the pic seem to be in decline. The growths always start above the plant in the far left corner (front) and spead up and out from there. The anubias has taken a hammering and I’ve removed a lot of leaves because of algae. The frogbit grows like weeds. 











So, there you have it!

I think it’s a great idea to try and find a Professor type that might be able to suggest what it is. I also think it’s a great idea to leave cleaning the glass this week (although that might just be laziness on my part).

If I ever do find out what it is, I’ll be sure to let you know :thumbsup:


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

I don't mind the info at all! More info is always best. Those who don't want it can skip over it, but I find it very helpful when diagnosing a problem.

It seems there are two suspects: the wood and the substrate.

Honestly, I'd change that substrate. It's not conducive to growing plants, and your entire layout would look even better with a dark substrate. It would really make the red plants pop out beautifully!

So regardless of whether the substrate is or is not the problem, I recommend changing it.

As far as the wood goes, I can't help but think that if this is a fungus coming from the wood, then the fungus should be showing up *on* the wood. I'm sure you would have spotted it by now if it was. That's not a scientific or factual comment regarding fungus being on the wood, but just what seems logical to me.

I'm going to suspect that substrate. If it had other problems, then who knows what's in it. You may be getting decay from bugs you killed with the Panacur. Why that corner? Maybe that's where the fungus (if it is a fungus) is located or maybe the water flow has an effect.

Even if you cannot get a positive ID on it, you can treat the tank for a fungus easily enough. If you treat the tank for a fungus and it goes away, then you'll know what it was. If it doesn't go away, then you'll at least know it's either not a fungus or not a fungus that is affected by the treatment you used.

You can also boil the substrate (goodbye to your good bacteria!) to sterilize it. If it's problematic, then I think I'd at least do that much. You should have good bacteria in many other places (although, those same places may be infected with whatever this is when then reinfects your freshly sterilized substrate).

If that was my tank, this is what I'd do.

1. Remove the substrate and plants that require a substrate to grow. You should be able to float a lot of the plants in the tank as a temporary measure. I know the crypts will take all the abuse you can throw at them and still do fine.

2. Do a water change and cleaning as normal, hoping to remove whatever that stuff is.

3. Sterilize your water changer. If it's a python, I run extremely hot water through it for a couple of minutes and then trap the water inside the tube (turn water off from sink, have both ends in closed position). Let that sit for half an hour. Then run hot water back through it again. I then run cold water through it before putting it up. This isn't perfect sterilization, but it's better than nothing.

4. If you see that stuff in your now bare-bottom tank, hit it with some H2O2 to see if that affects it. It will hopefully kill it. Use a syringe just like you'd do with BBA. Turn the lights and filter off when you do the H2O2 treatment so it remains in the area you put it.

5. Once you finally clear the tank of these things, slowly put back the decor you had removed, such as the wood and substrate. But before you do, make sure you clean them both with H2O2. Clean your substrate thoroughly. I'd replace the substrate last since it's the hardest to remove, and if those things show up after adding the wood, you don't want to have it reinfect your substrate.

6. Once you are "thing" free, add the substrate and cross your fingers. If you see any reappear, hit it with H2O2.

While none of this identifies what that stuff is, it can be a systematic way of getting that stuff out of your tank. And that's the whole point. We identify things because we are naturally curious, but also because it helps us to know how to get rid of it. While I'd love to know what it is, you may end up just working to get rid of it without ever getting an ID on it.


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## CeeBee (Jan 16, 2009)

Thanks ever so much for taking the time to give me such detailed advice. It's so dpressing though  

I've had such ups and downs with this damn tank, that the thought of stripping it back down again is more than I can bare at the moment. I plan on giving it a couple more months to see if I can finally get the balance right and turn this tank into something I can be proud of. 

In the meantime, I'll hope that I can get an ID on my strange little 'things' and sort out a way to get rid of them without a strip down (that sounds so wrong if you don't know the context!). 

I totally agree that I messed up royally with the substrate. I could kick myself - not only for buying used gravel and not thoroughly cleaning it - but also for buying gravel in the first place. I really should have put much more thought into it. Removing it though, just worries me hugely. There's a much finer substrate under it, and the thought of trying to take that out too is just too much. I've spent hours on this tank one way and another and a major overhaul is too depressing right now  

So, I've copied your advice into a doc so that I have a task list if I end up having to strip it down. Leaving it might be compounding the problem and ultimately make stripping it even more of a task, but I just can't face starting over right now.

Do accept my sincere thanks for your help and advice though. I really do appreciate it. I'll certainly make sure that I keep you posted too.


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## Ryzilla (Oct 29, 2005)

I had this before in new tanks. I was concerned at first as well. Then as the tank matured it went away. I imagine it is a fungus of some sort. Sometimes it could span around an inch in leangth. 

Bottom line is, I have no idea what it is but I have had it in new tanks and it went away.


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## CeeBee (Jan 16, 2009)

I can't tell you how much I hope you're right, Ryzilla. I'm going to take Complexity's suggestion of leaving it to see what happens. I won't clean the glass this weekend and see how it looks. If it changes significanly, I'll post up some pics.

Who knows what weird new forms it might take?!


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

CeeBee, you're very welcome. And don't worry about stripping your tank down at this point. If this is a fungus, it can be killed out very easily without having to break it all down. That was a worst case scenario.

Be sure to keep photographing it as it spreads (IF it spreads). Your pictures will be invaluable to the next person who has the same mystery "things" appear in their tank.


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## CeeBee (Jan 16, 2009)

Well - the glass hasn't been cleaned for 2 weeks and I really thought that I'd be seeing loads more of these mystery things. The opposite has happened though - they're diminishing and now there are only a couple left. Tomorrow is water change day, so it'll be interesting to see if they re-appear next week.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Interesting! Not what I would have expected either.

Did you ever hear back from anyone as to whether it is a fungus or something else?


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## CeeBee (Jan 16, 2009)

No Vicki - no-one has got back to me. Still, I'm not going to give up - I really want to know what they are. I'm still hoping that I'll get a further response, but I don't really like to press it too much. If I don't hear anything next week, I'll see if I can find someone else who might know. 

If they follow the pattern that they have since I set up the tank, they'll be back a few days after the water change. If not - I guess they might have gone for good. One of the things I did notice, was a Cardinal having a pop at them - quite agressively for one so small! I wonder if that little tribe are behind the disappearances?


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

I wonder why the cardinal would be eating it? Or at least attacking it?

I've also thought that there's something in the water that those "things" are using for food. Fresh water means fresh food which means they multiply. Old water means the food is all used up which means they die.

It's a stretch, but it's as good as any other idea.


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