# Brown hair algae/filamentous diatoms; Thread diatoms;



## Fred13

Hello,

I have a serious issue of filamentous diatoms or something like that (i am not sure) in my tank.. I have this problem for more than 3 weeks.

My specs are:

80 x 30 x 40 (centimeters)
80 liters water 
Substrate is prodibio aquagrowth soil
Lightning setup: 3 bulbs T5HO 24 x 3 . Osram daylight 6500, eheim plants 4000k and osram daylight 6500k.
Tanks Life: 9 cardinal tetra, 6 otocinclus affinis and 5 amano shrimp
CO2: Pressurized via the classic ceramic disc

My plants: Hemianthus cuba, eleocharis pusilla,pogostemon helferi, cabomba furcata,alternanthera red ruby, alternanthera reinecki mini, rotala wallichi, ranunculus inundatus, fissidens fontanus, peacok moss. Tomorrow, i will probably add staurogyne repens ,ludwigia perennis and palustris cuba proserpicana.

I am tired guys... I am tired doing super cleaning and water changes and next day watch those strings developing again.
I increased my ferts, i decreased my ferts.. I increased my co2. I changed bacteria for the water changes (!!!)... NOthing seems to help to kill this ugly hairy brown algae. 

The only thing left is to change my osrams maybe to Arcadia bulbs; To have better lightning; But i dont want to spend money maybe for no results.

It grows everywhere. On substrate, on plants.. I found even on heater some.
If i left it unclean , it grows in length a lot.
I am posting few photos...

Aquarium isnt old..40-50 days not sure..

Thank you


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## Smooch

I looked up the soil that you used. I didn't find much, but I did find this: start up a freshwater aquarium | prodibio.com

Did you add all the stuff they suggest you use in the video or did you just use the soil alone? 

You're tank is new, therefore the plants that are in there are not established nor is your tank. It takes anywhere from 5- 8 ( or more) weeks for all the biological stuff that needs to happen for a stable tank to take place. 

In the video for the soil you bought, the sales pitch is to use their stuff and your tank will be fine and dandy within 24 hours. That is total BS! There are ways to manipulate the cycle so that it is shorter ( AKA cycled filter media) but even that doesn't instantly make a tank completely cycled. It takes a few weeks, however, the tank is safe for some fish using that method. 

If you add a bunch of ferts and other things to a tank while it is going through this new tank biological process, algae will appear and be a complete nuisance. 

What ferts are using? How often? What your photo period?

How did you 'change the bacteria' in your tank?


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## Fred13

Hello,

Yes i used those bacteria for the substrate. It is a method prodibio suggests to enhance the bacteria which are living in the substrate.

Yes i did the mistake and added ferts way too early. I started dosing EI when i had a small area of this algae. This made my problem even worse. I stopped fertilization for a week and i was adding only potassium.
Then, i did it again! Starting full ferts but with smaller doses. Both of these movements were probably totally wrong..:/

My photo period is 7 hours.

By changing bacteria i mean i changed the product. I was adding special blend for my water changes and when product finished i changed to prodibio biodigest bacteria..

I am afraid that i have problem with my lightning also. Those 2 osrams are t5HO. The eheim plant bulb is not. Is this probably an overkill for my tank; I was thinking about changing the 1 daylight HO with 1 Arcadia Daylight which isnt. So the final setup would be 2 t5 NHO and 1 t5 HO.

I am just thinking that i dont want to pay again and again without determine if light is an issue that i have to fix.

As for the fish.. Everything is ok. Eating and swimming around . Even the otos which are more sensitive seem to be ok.

Thank you


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## Smooch

There is nothing going on that can't be fixed, however, you're going to have to have some patience. No need to toss the baby out with the bath water. :wink2:

I'm not opposed to EI dosing, but it doesn't need to be used with a new tank and shouldn't be in my opinion. I will get a wrist slapped for saying this as I always do ( by others, not you), but the bacteria that breaks ferts down in the substrate is not fully colonized in a new tank as I've already mentioned. It doesn't happen overnight.

I still don't know what you are using for ferts and or how often, so not much can be said there without that info.

As for lighting, you can cut your photo period down by a hour for a total of 6 hours. This can be increased slowly once the tank is stable. 

You can change bulbs, but you will have to take the wait and see approach to find out if the changes actually work or not. Again, you won't see anything different overnight. Plants take time to adapt and adjust. 

Another option is to raise the lights up so the tank is still getting light, just not as much. 

This problem needs to be fixed by doing one thing at a time. Pick one thing and see how it goes. If you try to change everything at once, you're not going to know what the problem / solution is.


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## Fred13

Smooch said:


> There is nothing going on that can't be fixed, however, you're going to have to have some patience. No need to toss the baby out with the bath water. :wink2:
> 
> I'm not opposed to EI dosing, but it doesn't need to be used with a new tank and shouldn't be in my opinion. I will get a wrist slapped for saying this as I always do ( by others, not you), but the bacteria that breaks ferts down in the substrate is not fully colonized in a new tank as I've already mentioned. It doesn't happen overnight.
> 
> I still don't know what you are using for ferts and or how often, so not much can be said there without that info.
> 
> As for lighting, you can cut your photo period down by a hour for a total of 6 hours. This can be increased slowly once the tank is stable.
> 
> You can change bulbs, but you will have to take the wait and see approach to find out if the changes actually work or not. Again, you won't see anything different overnight. Plants take time to adapt and adjust.
> 
> Another option is to raise the lights up so the tank is still getting light, just not as much.
> 
> This problem needs to be fixed by doing one thing at a time. Pick one thing and see how it goes. If you try to change everything at once, you're not going to know what the problem / solution is.


Thank you very much for your advises and encouragement!

I think my biggest disadvantage is patience! I put the nitro on, i am changing things very fast and i dont have the patience to wait and see if something works or not. For example , about my lightning. Some friends advised me to remove the 1 bulb because they think this is more than enough. They told me to wait for about 2 weeks and see the results. I did that for 2 days, plants didnt pearl that much and i was like "ok lets put that bulb again on"

So i have to control myself at this one!!!

Lets start with lightning; I can go tomorrow and change my daylight osram to an Arcadia daylight. Next step, running only with 2 bulbs (daylight and one for plants) for 2 weeks and see how it goes; I dont think my plants will have issues with light about 0,6w/liter especially at my height (40 centimeters). Right;

As for the ferts, i have the seachem liquid ferts.

Potassium,iron, phosphorus, flourish, trace,nitrogen.

When these are finished i ll probably go to dry ferts and not spend again that much.

What do you suggest about them; Keep dosing;
If you tell me yes about the lightning experiment tell me if i should also dose or not.


ps. I cant raise the bulbs:/ Dont have any way to do this..
Thank you!


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## Smooch

Patience is everything in this hobby. Good things don't happen fast and algae doesn't just happen out of the blue. There is cause and affect for everything you do. Once your tank is established, you have much more wiggle room for errors, but not right out of the gate. 

As for ferts, you need to test your tank and post the results.

You don't want to starve your plants, but you need to remove all the excess. Another word that often gets me in trouble, but if your tank is running too high in things like nitrates, you need to get them down to a 'normal' range. Your tank doesn't need anything above 20-30 ppm. I run my tanks low on nitrates which freaks people out, but that's just me and hell spawn has yet to rain down upon my tanks, nor has black beard algae, green water, cyano bacteria or anything else for that matter. 

If you don't have test kits, bring water somewhere and have it tested. In the meantime, you can certainly make changes to lighting. You said raising isn't a option, so go with your plan.

You can do other things such as add floating plants that will absorb excess nutrients and or fast growing stems such as wisteria which loves to soak up extra nutrients. Floating plants also act like a natural light filter which can be removed once your tank is stable. 

I don't know how often you are doing water changes, but if they are not often, once a week is a good place to start. If more needs to happen, you should do them and know that those too are temporary. There is no need to do excessive water changes once the tank is established unless you are keeping sensitive fish that need pristine water.


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## Fred13

Smooch said:


> Patience is everything in this hobby. Good things don't happen fast and algae doesn't just happen out of the blue. There is cause and affect for everything you do. Once your tank is established, you have much more wiggle room for errors, but not right out of the gate.
> 
> As for ferts, you need to test your tank and post the results.
> 
> You don't want to starve your plants, but you need to remove all the excess. Another word that often gets me in trouble, but if your tank is running too high in things like nitrates, you need to get them down to a 'normal' range. Your tank doesn't need anything above 20-30 ppm. I run my tanks low on nitrates which freaks people out, but that's just me and hell spawn has yet to rain down upon my tanks, nor has black beard algae, green water, cyano bacteria or anything else for that matter.
> 
> If you don't have test kits, bring water somewhere and have it tested. In the meantime, you can certainly make changes to lighting. You said raising isn't a option, so go with your plan.
> 
> You can do other things such as add floating plants that will absorb excess nutrients and or fast growing stems such as wisteria which loves to soak up extra nutrients. Floating plants also act like a natural light filter which can be removed once your tank is stable.
> 
> I don't know how often you are doing water changes, but if they are not often, once a week is a good place to start. If more needs to happen, you should do them and know that those too are temporary. There is no need to do excessive water changes once the tank is established unless you are keeping sensitive fish that need pristine water.


I understand!

I have all the tests.. Nh4, no2, no3, KH, PH,GH,FE,PO4 even O2
Liquid tests.

I am doing a water change every week 50-60%. Now with the problem i was doing 2!

I especially testing my nitrates because they are unbalanced now and they went high 30+ few times but i managed to lower them with a water change.

In conclusion i should stick to the plan..to the one and only one plan and see the results after 2 weeks or so..

So i will change this daylight bulb with a better (i hope) one , i will remove the third bulb and run the aquarium with 2 bulbs for the next 2 weeks! I will keep my co2 high (i ordered an inline diffuser for the canister filter for better spread) and i will keep dosing ferts but with smaller doses; like 1/2 for my liters;
All these along with me doing the necessary tests during the week to see if especially nitrates are under control.

Do we agree;  

I promise to myself that i will be extremely patient for the next 15 days hahah! And if the problem start to fade away happy also 

I hope Cuba doesn't die because of insufficient light, took many days to root down to the substrate


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## Smooch

Fair enough, but keep in mind plants don't work on a calendar. They will tell you when they are not liking something that you are doing. Learning to trust what you see comes with time and experience. 

If your tank is okay with 1 water change and keeps nitrates within that range, you should be okay. 

One thing to keep in mind with CO2 is that if you're not keeping up with ferts, you're going to cause instability which is not going to help the algae problem. Keeping the CO2 in line with the ferts would be a better idea. 

I don't use CO2 and this one of those reasons why. What should be a simple problem to fix becomes more complicated. This is not me telling you not to use CO2, just be aware that any imbalance you cause in either direction ( high CO2 / low ferts or high ferts and low CO2) is going to cause you headaches. Toss lighting in there and the simple problem becomes even more complicated.


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## OVT

A big +1 @Smooch

Just leave your tank alone for a little bit longer and that algae will clear up once your plants and bacteria kick in. Just a little bit more patience.
I get exactly the same algae every time I set up a brand new tank with a brand new filter and every tank I have running now (6 at the moment) have none of it.

Beatifull tank, by the way.


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## Fred13

OVT said:


> A big +1 @Smooch
> 
> Just leave your tank alone for a little bit longer and that algae will clear up once your plants and bacteria kick in. Just a little bit more patience.
> I get exactly the same algae every time I set up a brand new tank with a brand new filter and every tank I have running now (6 at the moment) have none of it.
> 
> 
> 
> Beatifull tank, by the way.


Thank you! 

Yes..i will leave the tank alone to settle down and wait for it more patiently.

I am going today to buy the new bulb and i will remove the third one. So i will stick to the 2x24 bulb setup for a period of time and wait for the results! At least i will determine if the 3 x 24 was an overkill or not for the tank! i will keep the other routines steady.

I will update as soon as i have news !


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## dukydaf

My opinion is different to that of Smooch, but there are many ways to grow healthy plants . Understand and know a method well and apply it is perhaps a better way to approach it. I believe the whole idea behind EI is to provide non-limiting levels of nutrients, reducing the variable list mainly to CO2, light and organics. If you get algae adjust these 3 and see what happens. 

I say reducing light is the way to go. If you reduce light you put less pressure on the plants' demand for nutrients and CO2. Maybe you need more flow or more CO2, maybe the aquarium is not yet established so there are more unprocessed organics. Regardless, less light will give you a larger interval for adequate CO2. Most plants are able to survive at less light intensity for a while. 

I had the same algae in an EI tank. I reduced the light duration from 7 to 6h , improved CO2 and the algae went away in 1-2 weeks. But that is just my tank. Have a read of this article : http://aquariumalgae.blogspot.de/


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## Fred13

dukydaf said:


> My opinion is different to that of Smooch, but there are many ways to grow healthy plants . Understand and know a method well and apply it is perhaps a better way to approach it. I believe the whole idea behind EI is to provide non-limiting levels of nutrients, reducing the variable list mainly to CO2, light and organics. If you get algae adjust these 3 and see what happens.
> 
> I say reducing light is the way to go. If you reduce light you put less pressure on the plants' demand for nutrients and CO2. Maybe you need more flow or more CO2, maybe the aquarium is not yet established so there are more unprocessed organics. Regardless, less light will give you a larger interval for adequate CO2. Most plants are able to survive at less light intensity for a while.
> 
> I had the same algae in an EI tank. I reduced the light duration from 7 to 6h , improved CO2 and the algae went away in 1-2 weeks. But that is just my tank. Have a read of this article : Aquarium Algae ID (updated May6th '10 Surface Skum)


Yes, this is what i also understand about EI. Give plenty of nutrients and plenty of co2 with less light so the limiting factor is light.

This algae is difficult because of its aggressiveness. Grows way too fast not giving you the time to maintain the tank. 

So with my light setup my plants are growing fast but along with this algae. Fast plant growth and fast algae growth. Even if i tried many things i dont see any improvement and this is why i am looking forward to reduce my lightning.

I believe and i hope that 2 x 24 T5 would be enough for more demanding plants such as cuba , wallichii , ludwigies etc..
I have 21 gallons of water and a height of 40 cm (16 inches) from bulbs to the substrate. So according to those specs 2x24 is probably plenty of light for my plant spieces. 

My plan is to start running 2x24 (1 arcadia daylight and 1 for plants) from today , keep dosing ferts and high co2 and wait for the results.

I always have the option to put a third bulb on if plants need more but i hope they dont.

Tom Barr suggests lower lightning for almost any high lightning setup. He believes that light drives to algae issues and plants can do very well under lower light intensities. I hope this gonna work for me also.

I am happy you won that algae! I am tired of cleaning this again and again..

Last but not least, i ordered an inline co2 diffuser for better co2 spreading. Lets see how it behaves..


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## Fred13

I am already with 2 bulbs running 24 x 2. One daylight and 1 plant bulb. 

Lets see if this is going to work for my issue


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## AWolf

I get that stuff occasionally. It hangs off the sides of the tank and grows long. I just leave it alone, and after a couple of weeks it is gone. There is some imbalance in the tank chemistry that causes it. Probably some extra fertilizer that the plants don't use up quickly. 

If you lessen ferts and leave the tank alone, things tend to balance on their own. The regular water changes help to get rid of excess ferts, but not if you just keep adding them when things are off balance.

More plants = more light and ferts
Less plants = less light and ferts

I like to keep it simple.

Also, consider the fact that your tap water will have micro ferts. So you may not need to add them at all. Especially if you have a fully stocked fish tank. Stick to macro plus iron only, and see if you can clear things up. If you use RO water, then everything I just said does not apply. I have no experience with it.


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## Hilde

Lovely tank:drool:

What is your light period? I have found having a 3hr siesta period helps keep the bad algae under control.


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## Fred13

Sorry for the delayed answer !

Awolf i have those filamentous diatoms from 28th of May.. It is under control because of too many water changes and siphoning but if leave it , it grows long as you are describing.
I am dosing EI so yes it is possible that some ferts may feed this. i can decrease my ferts till my plant biomass gets bigger. I also hope this is doing a cycle like other diatoms. I thought bga was difficult but if you face those diatoms you dont care about other algae anymore:/ 

Hilde thank you my friend 
My photoperiod is 7 hours straight. I find Dennerle suggests the same about a siesta between the photoperiod. This is something i haven't tried so far.. Same goes for h2o2. I want to test this also.

Good news are that when i clean something 100% it does not coming back to that spot. Unfortunately this is something i cant do with hemianthus cuba. So difficult to clean it 100%.


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## isonychia

I had what I believe is the same stuff.
Closest guess I came up with after research and seeing other photos is rhizoclonium.

Here is a pic in the thread I started.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/23-algae/980777-brown-fuzz-algae-help.html

It mostly populated in my monte carlo carpet and fissidens fontanus, which was all near the substrate. It occasionally showed up on a few stem plants.

It eventually went away. The only thing I could contribute to it disappearing was constant gravel vacs in and around stems and vac-ing the monte carlo real well, cleaning my filter more often and adding filter floss to my eheim 2215. The eheim only came with a coarse filter pad and a fine pad. I think by adding more filter FLOSS and cleaning out the filter more it somehow helped BUT I cant be sure that is what stopped it.

iso


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## Fred13

isonychia said:


> I had what I believe is the same stuff.
> Closest guess I came up with after research and seeing other photos is rhizoclonium.
> 
> Here is a pic in the thread I started.
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/23-algae/980777-brown-fuzz-algae-help.html
> 
> It mostly populated in my monte carlo carpet and fissidens fontanus, which was all near the substrate. It occasionally showed up on a few stem plants.
> 
> It eventually went away. The only thing I could contribute to it disappearing was constant gravel vacs in and around stems and vac-ing the monte carlo real well, cleaning my filter more often and adding filter floss to my eheim 2215. The eheim only came with a coarse filter pad and a fine pad. I think by adding more filter FLOSS and cleaning out the filter more it somehow helped BUT I cant be sure that is what stopped it.
> 
> iso


Thank you
I am happy you solved your problem.

I believe those are diatoms because it isnt so hard, its more slimy and tends to break when i squish it.. But i am not sure ..

Yes, problem for me is more on hemianthus cuba and fissidens fontanus. It grows from the substrate and then it climbs up to the plants.
I ll keep siphoning and cleaning even if i destroy my carpet a little bit.

Thank you for the encouraging answer


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## isonychia

Fred13 said:


> Thank you
> I am happy you solved your problem.
> 
> I believe those are diatoms because it isnt so hard, its more slimy and tends to break when i squish it.. But i am not sure ..
> 
> Yes, problem for me is more on hemianthus cuba and fissidens fontanus. It grows from the substrate and then it climbs up to the plants.
> I ll keep siphoning and cleaning even if i destroy my carpet a little bit.
> 
> Thank you for the encouraging answer


The stuff in my photo were not diatoms. I went through diatoms when I first started the tank. The stuff in the picture is fuzzy brown hair like algae. If you tried to grab some it would disintegrate in your hands after rubbing it.

iso


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## Fred13

isonychia said:


> The stuff in my photo were not diatoms. I went through diatoms when I first started the tank. The stuff in the picture is fuzzy brown hair like algae. If you tried to grab some it would disintegrate in your hands after rubbing it.
> 
> iso


Same for me also.. So i probably have the same thing you had.

My first step was to decrease my light by removing 1 bulb. Went from 1w/l to 0,6w/l. I think that helped a little bit. Did you try any lightning decrease when you had this;


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## Fred13

Hello,

Things are going really really better. Tank is like 90% clean. Few spots are not clean but the growth is slow.

I dont know why and how but those filamentous diatoms started to grow slower and slower day by day.

A combination of reducing light, water changes,siphoning and cutting ferts are probably the reasons.

One more reason is maybe that the aquarium is now 2 months old. Maybe it is because the substrate has now more beneficial bacteria.

I ll update with pictures and news soon.


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## Mr. Bean

I'll piggy back on what Smooch laid out for you because I have just gone through what you are suffering through. I'm fairly new at this but will admit that I jumped the gun and set up my new 24 gallon cube with Flourite, added Tetra bacteria to the filter/tank, planted my plants and let it run for a week...naively thinking the bacteria I added (and as advertised) would cut the cycle time. It did not. I bought clay capsules and Thrive liquid fert from NilocG (great products by the way) and started dosing as instructed almost immediately. I have a pretty strong light (18" Finnex Ray2) and also dose CO2 (which I"m also getting the hang of slowly) with a GLA regulator etc. Within a week I had hair algae all over the place, and like you ... sent up a red flare for help and started researching. Drained most the water, removed as much as I could by hand and then lightly sprayed hydrogen peroxide (3%) on the dwarf hair grass and Cuba and quickly added more water to fully submerge them. This is a dicey proposition by the way, the H2O2 is an oxidizer and can burn your plants pretty quickly, so its a "spray and submerge" within seconds proposition. I did the same to the anubia and large rocks. Refilled the aquarium and skipped the next cycle of liquid ferts, then resumed with 1/2 dose. I had some algae reappear a week later, removed what I could but on the hair grass I submerged a small spray bottle with the h2O2 and gave a couple of pumps directly on the affected area of grass. 

My most significant mistake...in my opinion...was of course trying to rush the tank cycle...but also using the fertilizer as instructed eventhough my plants are not established and are still relatively small and as yet unable to fully utilize the nutrients I'm putting in the tank. Right now things are good, virtually no algae, ferts still at half dose, light was reduced slightly from 12 to 10 hours a day. I've also done 20% water changes every day...but that too can be dicey as you are trying to cycle a tank and don't want to disrupt the cycle by removing too much ammonia daily. Right now I'm at zero ammonia but going through the nitrite spike...but algae has not returned


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## Fred13

Did you have brown hair algae like filamentous diatoms; Because if you had green hair algae this is another story.

From your considerations i guess this is why my tank going really better these days. It is now 2 months old, more matured, the cycle is probably completed and more beneficial bacteria leaving in the substrate.

Sometimes we are rushing cycle to introduce fish but bacteria supplements are not capable to establish beneficial bacteria into the substrate or even the filter.
They are capable only to detoxify ammonia and nitrites so our fish stay ''healthy''.

So we agree , time is one of the most important factors. And that needs patience 

I was dosing EI and i cut my ferts down to 1/2 . I saw improvement in terms of algae. Plants remain healthy and algae slower.

After 2 weeks with 2 bulbs instead of 3 and 0,6-0,7w/l instead of 1-1,1/wl i can confirm that none of my plants seem to suffer from this lightning decrease. 
Red plants are healthy, cuba growing horizontal and healthy and everything grows the same but slower which is better for me (less trimming and so on).

My biggest mistake was the intense lightning. Just makes things so unstable for no profit.


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## OVT

Ditto, my newer tank is free of that slime also, but with no changes on my part. A mature tank at work.


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## Fred13

So we all agree that this thing whatever it is ( melosira, synedra or other type of filamentous diatom) does a life cycle and doesnt exist on normal situations in a mature tank.

From our side i think we should do some things like siphoning and many water changes. From my experience this is so aggressive and can take control within 24-48 hours. It builds everywhere starting from the substrate and then it climbs everywhere else.

I was watching it photosynthesizing and almost pearling. So reducing lightning also restrain this algae.

Tropica suggests a nice 90days schedule for a safe start. It requires work , water changes and careful steps.
Medium Light, full co2 , no ferts for the first month, algae eaters and careful trimming -remove dead leafs .
This schedule is for people with technical substrates. Unfortunately, i didnt follow it.

In conclusion , my suggestions are:
Reduce light intensity
Many water changes and siphon with the airpump hose (3 x 60% wc each week)
Increase co2 to the limit (carefully)
Trimming 
Increase oxygen levels -agitation 
Nice flow
PATIENCE !!!

So end of story  I hope this thread will help people facing this issue.I know their pain 

Thank you all guys!!!


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## Mr. Bean

Don't feel too bad Fred...you're not alone in your mistakes...believe me! And yes, I had the exact same problem as you versus green algae.


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## tangelo1106

Count me in for having the nasty brown stuff. I hope it clears as the tank matures. I found a good way to clean it off plants is to use a small round brush used for cleaning baby bottle nipples. You can comb it right off moss and plants more easily than a toothbrush.


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## theDCpump

I'm not sure about what to do either.
The only way we have managed to survive algae was to place nerite snails into the tanks for weeks to months and longer.
They do the job like goats on a green lawn. Almost all plant algae seems to be a target. They skim the glass too.

The smaller horned nerite guys with spikes look like they keep the small plants clean now. The larger striped nerites zip along everywhere else. 
We made the mistake of not cleaning the small ram's-horn snails from the store bought plants in one tank. 
They bred like crazy and are very lightweight. They can eat the small plant leaves with algae issues.

To round most of them up we use cucumber for the plecos and other fish. We leave the cucumber skin far into the next day. 
Those little guys are all over the cucumber and slower than me, so out they come cucumber and a handful of the ramshorn snails.


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## tejasn324

how is the tank now fred ?


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