# Fluval CO2 Kit?



## Julie7778 (Apr 21, 2015)

i was thinking on getting this for a rimless tank under 5g probably. 

Fish Tank & Aquarium Plant Accessories | PetSmart

Do you think this would work well enough for a tank with ADA substrate to grow a monte Carole carpet?


----------



## DaveK (Jul 10, 2010)

In my opinion, save your money on this, and put it toward a for real pressurized CO2 system. 

You will find that at $19 for three of those almost useless CO2 cartridges, you will quickly spend more money than you would have spent on a for real CO2 system.


----------



## Naiad (Jun 20, 2014)

I bought one a few years ago and still use it. Works brilliantly. I currently have it on a 17 gallon tank. However, don't waste your money on the refill cartridges. Buy the replacement CO2 for bike tires or soda machines online like ebay, etc. I buy 30 a time for $20 which is 10x the amount for the same price as refills. Each one lasts 2 weeks and I have a high light tank (2x finnex ray II) and the entire 30 lasts around a year. Since your tank is smaller, it will probably last even longer! The cartidges are called "16g threaded CO2 catridge". Search that and they will be easy to find. I 100% recommend for small tanks. Cheaper than normal pressurized system if you don't want to spend $100 initially. The diffuser it comes with I've never tried (it's ugly imo), but my first replacement was the little black diffuser that normally comes with the 88g kit. This works very well and I used it for years, but I ended up changing mine for aesthetic reasons to glass. 

**I do plan to change my setup soon solely because I am making everything automated and hidden and I can't put a solenoid on this. I'll probably stick it on my smaller tank, though.


----------



## mootay (Feb 16, 2015)

The most obvious problem with this unit is that, as others mention, hagen wants you to spend money on replacement cartridges that don't last very long. I had not heard of using CO2 bike pump cartridges but I suppose that's a possibility as well as fitting larger, refillable CO2 containers with adapters. This smaller hagen unit also lacks pressure gauges, so you'll have to watch the diffusor to see if the tank is empty. Lastly, one must purchase a solenoid to automate turning it on/off. Unless you plan on tending to it daily, injecting CO2 while the lights are off is not useful in any way.

I do like that it uses a very small footprint and simplistic design but once modified to be more practical you may find you were better off making a larger initial investment.


----------



## Naiad (Jun 20, 2014)

Just wanted to add that the regulator was probably not made to withstand the extra pressure, so I don't recommend larger CO2 containers w/ adapters for safety reasons 

If you know you want a full automated system, then DON'T buy this. That's very true. Hard to upgrade. I also have to check mine 2x a day (to turn it on/off) which is a little annoying, but that is less work and nicer looking than a DIY system, for example. (also it smells better lol) Basically, it all depends on if you want to sacrifice a little more effort for a lower cost or just get the "fancy" system right off the bat.


----------



## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

I was very interested in the 88G kit which looks to be the same (they have a smaller one). A few people mentioned the turn offs, mainly it is expensive for refills. I was told this may last me a week or two and refills are $30 locally for three. I get my 5lb tank filled for $18 locally. The second thing is that universal refills seemed iffy, some people had no issues where other people couldn't get them to work. It sounds in this thread that someone got them to work and that changes things to make it a consideration. Lastly, many said the needle valve was really iffy. 

If I was going to revisit a mini regulator, I would strongly consider a Leland Mini CO2 reg. However, that would cost the same as a full regulator with quality parts. I bet I would spend the same trying to up the quality of the Fluval though, only making it about $20 more at the end of the day.


----------



## Julie7778 (Apr 21, 2015)

I'm not very familiar with any of the co2 set ups. This would be my first, if you guys have any recommendations that would cost under $100 or how to built one, I would be happy to listen!

But I'm in Canada so the item would have to be for sure available here since shipping is so expensive.


----------



## mootay (Feb 16, 2015)

Julie7778 said:


> I'm not very familiar with any of the co2 set ups. This would be my first, if you guys have any recommendations that would cost under $100 or how to built one, I would be happy to listen!
> 
> But I'm in Canada so the item would have to be for sure available here since shipping is so expensive.


I've seen many recommendations for several particular brands on this forum but most complete units will run you much more than $100.

I can tell you that I'm a CO2 novice as an owner of regulators and dealing with CO2 affected water parameters. However, having been in your position of looking for an inexpensive pressurized CO2 regulator, I know of a few choices. 

If you like to build things there is the usual DIY solution of sugar and yeast but it's stinky, sometimes messy and inconsistant. You can also build your own regulator with parts. There is a full gradient of available components with some of the cheapest bits on sale at your neighborhood harbor freight. I can't really comment on building a reg. from scratch but if you're crafty it's an option on the table.

What I ended up ultimately doing is buying a cheap pre-made unit in the aquatek mini. It covers the basics although it uses a soon to be obsolete 20 oz. paintball container. I hear it's possible to use an adapter and larger soda fountain style containers as a contingency plan but I'm not sure about that. The 20 oz. isn't an issue if your CO2 demands are moderate/small and you have access to new containers if needed. There is also the problem of "tank dumping" where the tank just empties out the last bit into your water column. I'm not overly concerned about any of that right now but I may upgrade in the future. The aquatek mini btw will run you just less than $100 with accessories.


----------



## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

A 5lb cylinder contains as much CO2 as 25*88g cartridges (you linked the 20g system, which is less than 1/4th the size). How much do 25 of those cartridges cost? And, you either turn it on and off each day, or you leave it on 24/7. If you leave it on, you replace cartridges 3 times as fast, meaning it'll cost you 75 88g cartridges - or 340 20g cartridges - with that system to run as long as a 5lb clyinder (with regulator and solenoid).

On a nano tank, the cost over time is much slower to increase, and since nanos are often on a table or counter, there's no good place to hide the cylinder. And for a 5g tank, a 5lb cylinder could conceivably last 3 years, so a bit overkill.

Yes, that system will provide enough CO2 for any plants, carpet or otherwise, given sufficient light and nutrients. If (on a 5g tank) you turn it off and on every day, an 88g cartridge could last a month and a half. Full time, you'll replace every 2 weeks.

You can't use a solenoid for this thing because there's no regulator. The pressure in the line would build up to 800-ish psi against a blockage, and solenoids we use in this hobby are designed for (usually) a bit over 100 psi. And if you *do* turn it on and off every day, every day you'll have to tweak it to the right flow, and you risk killing off your betta, or shrimp, or microrasboras if you go too high.

An entry-level pressurized CO2 system with cylinder, regulator, solenoid, diffuser, and any extras will cost you in the $150-200 range. Unfortunately, CO2 ain't cheap to start. But the only cost over time is refills.


----------



## Julie7778 (Apr 21, 2015)

Ahh! I'm so overwhelmed. I don't know what half of this means. Thanks for all the input Guys and being understanding! I'm doing my best to understand.


----------



## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

Okay, so you have pressurized CO2. At around 800 psi, give or take due to ambient temperature, CO2 turns to liquid, and liquid can't be pressurized. So 800 is as high as it goes. Normally, anyway.

A regulator takes that 800 psi and reduces it to something manageable, usually 10-50 psi, depending on how people want to use it. At this point you have a needle valve, which controls the flow of that 25 psi, giving you a specific volume of gas over a given time period. In between you can have a normally closed solenoid, which will open up the pathway for the gas when electricity is applied to it.

The kit you linked has a cartridge, which is a mini, disposable cylinder filled with CO2. I've always assumed it was pressurized (liquid) CO2, but heck, I've never actually tried to find out. Anway, there's no regulator. Only a valve that controls the flow of high-pressure CO2. It's like having a really stretched balloon and controlling the size of a pinhole in it. Because there's no regulator, and you're therefore working with maybe 20 to 40 times the pressure that we normally work with, the tiniest fluctuation of anything at all can affect flow. So it's cheap, and it's super-sensitive, and therefore pretty difficult to regulate.

And once you've digested that, here's a huge mass of information for you, starting with the basics:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/9...plete-compendium-pressurized-co2-threads.html


----------



## mootay (Feb 16, 2015)

kevmo911 said:


> You can't use a solenoid for this thing because there's no regulator. The pressure in the line would build up to 800-ish psi against a blockage, and solenoids we use in this hobby are designed for (usually) a bit over 100 psi. And if you *do* turn it on and off every day, every day you'll have to tweak it to the right flow, and you risk killing off your betta, or shrimp, or microrasboras if you go too high.


Correct me if I'm mistaken.. but I thought both the Fluval 20g and 88g utilized a needle valve to control working pressure? I realize the gauge on the 88g is for cylinder pressure. A solenoid would have to be placed after the needle valve on either unit unless you planned on doing some serious fabrication. Would that damage the needle valve or create build-up between it and the solenoid?


----------



## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

mootay said:


> Correct me if I'm mistaken.. but I thought both the Fluval 20g and 88g utilized a needle valve to control working pressure? I realize the gauge on the 88g is for cylinder pressure. A solenoid would have to be placed after the needle valve on either unit unless you planned on doing some serious fabrication. Would that damage the needle valve or create build-up between it and the solenoid?


A regulator has a compartment (or two) between the inlet and the outlet ports wherein it lowers the pressure to a set amount. So, coming out of the outet you'll never have more than the set amount (say 20 psi in a standard case), regardless of whether there's a blockage. A valve controls flow, not pressure.

In the Fluval kits, there's no regulator, just a valve than opens and closes to limit flow. So there's still 800 psi coming out of the outlet, even through just a tiny pinhole. That means that in order to stop the flow, you'll need something that can handle 800 psi. We don't have any solenoids that can handle that much pressure while using a minimum wattage, at least certainly not in a reasonable price range. But that's okay, because the tubing would burst long before 800 psi.

You can have a solenoid before or after the needle valve; it really doesn't matter. We just usually run it before the valve because it's easier.


----------



## mootay (Feb 16, 2015)

kevmo911 said:


> You can have a solenoid before or after the needle valve; it really doesn't matter. We just usually run it before the valve because it's easier.


Makes sense, provided you have an actual "regulator". Man, I'm really glad I passed on the Fluval models now.. they seem like they're designed to take money from the unsuspecting.


----------



## Julie7778 (Apr 21, 2015)

Oh boy! I've got some reading to do. 

I wish I could just pay someone to set this up for me LOL!


----------



## Julie7778 (Apr 21, 2015)

Hey guys! What do you think about this? 

Up Aqua CO2 System - $85.00

If you see anything else I might need on there or other options let me know!


----------



## sohankpatel (Jul 10, 2015)

This is your best-bet for an entry-level co2 system, this will make life so much easier over the long run. I was on a budget so i bought this and after a month and a half i can say it works well for the price. Dont toss the bubble counter that comes with it (reviewers say it is crap, and i agree, but it was the old one),, it looks like the recently replaced it for one that look like it may be a bit better.
Freshwater Planted Aquarium Plant Care: Drs. Foster & Smith Semi-Automatic CO2 System


----------



## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Julie7778 said:


> Oh boy! I've got some reading to do.
> 
> I wish I could just pay someone to set this up for me LOL!


Well, there is not anything inherently wrong with the system you originally posted. The only reason people are recommending otherwise is the cost of refills. I am guessing they would last about 3-4 weeks on your tank. In the short run, that doesn't seem expensive but it adds up over time. I looked at the same system for a 20 gallon and people said it lasted about 1-2 weeks, some said less than that. On the flip side, a 5lb CO2 tank lasts me over 6 months and I used to have a 20lb, different setup so I don't know if it lasted me 2 years, less or more, but it was long enough to absolutely forget how long it lasted. A 5lb tank costs about $18 to fill, a 20lb costs me about $30 to fill. That is a lot of savings in the long term. Most people ditch these systems pretty quickly, even higher end ones with better components.

This isn't bad to get your feet wet but I can say that you will almost certainly replace it in the future, maybe the near future. It's basically the buy cheap, buy twice deal. However, what you save upfront here, you pay on the back end, regardless if you buy again or not.

Someone above said they got it to work with universal refills. I know many have tried this and some have been successful, most have leaks. If you find a cheap refill that fits, then that changes things. It's still more costly over time but much more mildly so. A post above states they get 10x as much CO2 for the same price when they don't have to buy the Fluval brand refills. A few have adapted it to paint ball as well but that is about the same cost as a Aquatek regulator which I would go with instead. 

It's not a bad idea in theory, especially on a nano, it's simply the fact Fluval up charges significantly for refills. If you can get cheaper refills to work, I would give it a try. Just don't spend money modifying it, because once you go there, you likely will move on from it and unless those parts cover a DIY regulator build, which I don't think you are looking at, at least right now, it is money down the drain.


----------



## Julie7778 (Apr 21, 2015)

sohankpatel said:


> This is your best-bet for an entry-level co2 system, this will make life so much easier over the long run. I was on a budget so i bought this and after a month and a half i can say it works well for the price. Dont toss the bubble counter that comes with it (reviewers say it is crap, and i agree, but it was the old one),, it looks like the recently replaced it for one that look like it may be a bit better.
> Freshwater Planted Aquarium Plant Care: Drs. Foster & Smith Semi-Automatic CO2 System


This looks promising! What did you refill it with ?

Bump: *talontsiawd* 

Thank you very much. This was very helpful. I'm understanding now more.


----------



## sohankpatel (Jul 10, 2015)

Julie7778 said:


> This looks promising! What did you refill it with ?
> 
> Bump: *talontsiawd*
> 
> Thank you very much. This was very helpful. I'm understanding now more.


Went to my local brew shop and picked up a 5lb co2 tank. Put in the nylon washer, and it was up and running. I dont use the diffuser because i have a reactor, however the diffuser works well on smaller tanks.


----------



## keymastr (May 25, 2015)

For such a small tank why not just use DIY co2? I use it on my 20 gallon and it gives me as much as I would use if I had a pressurized system.


----------



## mootay (Feb 16, 2015)

keymastr said:


> For such a small tank why not just use DIY co2? I use it on my 20 gallon and it gives me as much as I would use if I had a pressurized system.


More work involved. Pressurized is fill/set/forget.


----------



## Julie7778 (Apr 21, 2015)

I'm going totry DIY CO2 this weekend actually. Quick question. I'm worried of it exploding or something. So do I screw on the cap or leave it a bit loose?


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 30, 2019)

I have the fluval 45g co2 kit can I use the larger fluval cartridge on the 45g regulator?


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 30, 2019)

Naiad said:


> I bought one a few years ago and still use it. Works brilliantly. I currently have it on a 17 gallon tank. However, don't waste your money on the refill cartridges. Buy the replacement CO2 for bike tires or soda machines online like ebay, etc. I buy 30 a time for $20 which is 10x the amount for the same price as refills. Each one lasts 2 weeks and I have a high light tank (2x finnex ray II) and the entire 30 lasts around a year. Since your tank is smaller, it will probably last even longer! The cartidges are called "16g threaded CO2 catridge". Search that and they will be easy to find. I 100% recommend for small tanks. Cheaper than normal pressurized system if you don't want to spend $100 initially. The diffuser it comes with I've never tried (it's ugly imo), but my first replacement was the little black diffuser that normally comes with the 88g kit. This works very well and I used it for years, but I ended up changing mine for aesthetic reasons to glass.
> 
> **I do plan to change my setup soon solely because I am making everything automated and hidden and I can't put a solenoid on this. I'll probably stick it on my smaller tank, though.


 I just got a 20gal tall. And have a 45g fluval co2 kit. How many bubbles a min do you suggest?


----------

