# Trying to get rid of GSA once and for all....



## ringram (Jan 19, 2005)

Hi all, 
I've been a lurker and poster here for the past year or so, but haven't posted in quite a while as I've been nusy with other things. The tank (20H) is growing quite well, but I'm still getting problems with gsa. It's so bad that if I let the tank go for more than about 4-5 days without a water change/algae wipe, the sides get so covered that you can barely see in. I generally scrape the algae off the sides and then do a 30-40% water change, but I'm sure this doesn't remove all the free-floating spores from the water column, since within a day or two I see some collected on the sides.
The tank has been set up for almost a year (Feb, '05) and, for the most part, has been going smoothly with decent growth on things like limnophila aromatica, glossostigma, heterophila zesterfolia, hygrophila difformis and quite a few others. It has two 55W PC's set about 4-5" above the water line(custom made "legs"). I have an Eheim cannister pro #2222 (132 gph) and an AC30 powerhead for some extra water movement. The tank stays pretty constant at 74-76 degrees. I inject pressurized Co2 through a PVC reactor hooked to the outflow of the Eheim. This morning, the water parameters were:
ph = 6.6
kh = 5 dkh
No3 ~ 20 ppm
Po4 ~ 1.5-2 ppm
Co2 ~ 38 ppm(Chuck's chart)

I dose daily macros odd days, micros even days.
Does any of this give you an inkling as to what may be causing the GSA issues?? I was thinking it may be water movement, but most of the tank has moderate movement, although by the last couple hours of the photo period, I sometimes see foamy deposits at the surface(??). I don't think its the dosing, as I've been following the recommended amounts and keeping the No3 and Po4 at a 10:1 ratio the best I can. I also have gsa on a lot of plant leaves(older growth, typically) and if I removed all affected leaves, I would probably remove about 1/4 - 1/3 of the plant mass in the tank. Any other ideas?? I know someone will say increase Co2, but I've tried that to the point where the fish are gasping for breath and then I have to back off a little. One other thing to note is that I've heard to O.D. Po4 -- most people mention using Fleet's, although I ran out of it a couple months ago and have been using greg watson's KH2Po4, so I'm not sure if I would have to adjust my dosage based on concentration of Phosphate in it. I'm stumped. Anyone care to interject? Thanks!

-Ryan


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## ringram (Jan 19, 2005)

Oh, I should also probably mention that the tank has a pair of "rabbit" platys that give birth about every couple weeks and some of the babies live, so I have probably 8-10 platys of various sizes in addition to 3 SAEs and 2 otto's. I am still a little upset as I woke up today to find a dead SAE and ghost shrimp and when I tested my water, the ammonia and nitrites were through the roof! I was suprised that this could happen on such an established tank, but I did a 50% water change that corrected it. I then noticed that the female platy must have given birth during the night and spiked everything. Just note that (typically), the NH4 and No2 are ~0 as I do water changes 1-2 times a week.


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## Jason Baliban (Mar 3, 2005)

Whatever you are dosing for PO4, does 1.5-2x that amount. So if you are dosing 1/16tsp, I would does a bit less then 1/8. Then cut your NO3 in half. I bet your bioload is creating more NO3 then you think. Make sure you are dosing K as well.....does the same amount of K as your NO3 before you cut it in half. Then I would dose macros twice a week for a few weeks and see what happens.

d1 WC and macro
d2 micro
d3 nothing
d4 micro
d5 macro
d6 micro
d7 nothing.

Try that for 3 weeks and see how that improves your situation. Also be sure to remove the stuff on the glass with a paper towel with the tank is mostly empty during a WC. The idea is to make sure that you dont put the GSA back in the tank.

jB


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

*NO3 dosing*

The last I heard it does no harm to have pretty high levels of either PO4 or NO3, so I wouldn't cut back on NO3 at all. I would increase it some. If the plants are vigorously growing they are using it up pretty fast anyway. You have 110 watts over 20 gallons, and that is high, even with the light raised up a few inches. So, you can assume the plants are really gobbling down the ferts. I would also increase the micro dosage a bit too. Part of the point of EI dosing is that you change enough water often enough that even overdosing doesn't build up to be excessive. Using the CO2 calculator I am running around 75 ppm of CO2 in my tank, with no fish distress at all - I say this because you also may not have the amount of CO2 in the water that you think you have. I really doubt that I have that much.


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## Jason Baliban (Mar 3, 2005)

I disagree with Hoppy. While excess is not a bad thing, I don believe the ratio of P to K is what is causing your issues with GSA. IME the excess nutrients lead to GSA and no other algae (as long as our co2 is high and steady). I have cut my macros back to almost nothing and watched my GSA dissapear. But then my plants slow to a crawl. I have found that excess P causes no issues. But excess N without P seems to cause GSA. Lots of folks do the whole add more P to stop GSA....what are we doing there? IMO just changing the ratio of N : P. My advice has worked well for me. Good luck.

jB


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## ianiwane (Sep 7, 2004)

I agree with you Jason. His ratio for N to P needs to be changed. I would not raise N as Hoppy suggests.


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## ringram (Jan 19, 2005)

Well, I did what was suggested and decided to post a pic as well. I did a wc this morning and just finished dosing 1/16 tsp KNo3 (half of previous), 1/8 tsp K2So4 (old KNo3) and about 3/8 tsp KH2Po4. I'll dose my usual 5-6 mL of micro tomorrow (2 tsp Plantex CSM + B, extra Fe / 250 mL water). I'll continue this for a couple weeks and see if there are any improvements.


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## Jason Baliban (Mar 3, 2005)

I feel your pain man....

That is a nice mature tank you have there. The last thing you want to deal with is GSA. Also maybe bumb up your co2 a bit. Hopefully it clears up for you.

jB


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## ianiwane (Sep 7, 2004)

that maybe way to much phosphate recheck the fert calculator


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## Jason Baliban (Mar 3, 2005)

ianiwane said:


> that maybe way to much phosphate recheck the fert calculator


Yeah....I would check you phosphate dosing as well. I dose less then 3/8tsp in a 75 gallon.

jB


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## ringram (Jan 19, 2005)

I came up with 3/8 tsp b/c you were suggesting to up my Po4 dosage by 1.5-2x the current amount. I was dosing 1/8 tsp every other day before, but I upped it to 3/8 tsp (only 2x a week now). Is that still too much, given the circumstances? Thanks for all the replies! I don't know where I would be without the help from you and the other folks on this forum!
Regards,
-Ryan


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

They say the more light, the harder it is to balance a tank...

You've got a LOT of light. 5.5wpg, to be exact. And you're using some of the most efficient lights in existence, with reflectors that negate most of the effect of raising your lights a few inches.

Maybe this is making things harder on you than necessary?

I'd maintain your previous nutrient levels, but cut lighting period down by 25%. See what impact that has on the GSA, it will only take a couple of days.


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## ringram (Jan 19, 2005)

Indeed. I have those nice, shiny AH reflectors on both lights, so I'm sure it doesn't help matters. I'll keep the photo period at 12 hrs and try to dosing changes now. If, after a week or two, I don't see improvement, I'll bump that down to 9 or 10 hrs. I've been told that most aquatic plants we have in our aquariums comes from equatorial regions and are used to getting ~12 hr photo periods in the wild, so adjusting that isn't always the best thing. I'll keep it in mind though. Thank you for your suggestion.
-Ryan


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## oceanaqua (Nov 24, 2005)

I heard Nerites snails eats them, maybe give them a try.


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