# Pulling my hair out! Need dosing and lighting advice please!



## FatherLandDescendant (Jul 24, 2014)

First quit playing with the pH. Water softener pillows only work until you change the water then it's right back up it goes. The pH will adjust naturally on its own when everything gets right, and 4 months is barely enough time on a new tank for things to be leveling out. 

Others more experienced than I will have to suggest a course of action with the ferts to achieve the once a month water change your trying to achieve. But I will say again get rid of that water softening pillow it's part of the problem not the solution


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## brandon429 (Mar 29, 2003)

my brainstorms only doing bullet points since at work but your pics helped

your probs are on leaves you didnt grow, thats different than on ones you did

no co2
high light low substrate organic level = starve w algae eventually
constrast that to active substrates like capped potting soil or amazonia and powersand, anything that has marked free organics or access to nutrients

your flourite is great substrate good in iron and not much else until it gets aged, its what I have in a 13 year old planted tank and its better than amazonia because it doesnt break down

but I infused it with goodies before it was planted, so my new plants had something to grab from the soil no prob, I too am no co2 high light, I use metal halide for reefs in fact on my planted tank its more light than yours but my nutrient availabilities are different

I too have some holes in leaves like your pics but it doesnt bother much

your tank actually doenst look bad at all! but, some challenges are coming

lower light a little imo and rich up that substrate with something more long term, root tabs are phosphate flashers that can often cause algae in the substrate because of its large pore and circulation within the tank

the best thing you could ever, ever do is get pressurized co2 and thank yourself for years and change not much else on your tank to be


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## Django (Jun 13, 2012)

Hi. Treat this as an idea message. Maybe you can use some of my comments. I think you really need an expert - where are they? Also I unfortunately can't help you with dosage, except that I used the dose on the bottle of Flourish Comprehensive for Flourish Comprehensive and Seachem Tabs and found them to be ok. Tabs are needed for big root feeders only. I found that macros are very important along with micros.

I want to get to the lights. You have a reef tank, right? Reef lights don't put out the right light for plant tanks. You need lights that put out 6500 Kelvin (color temperature) although other people may talk about 7k or 10k Kelvin. I would not use a moonlight bulb and just put all bulbs on one schedule.

Aquarium Life Support Systems G-Reactor (currently containing carbon and phosguard) - Phosphate is a macro nutrient. Don't use carrbon as I think it traps larger molecules, perhaps particulate organics, and can release it. I guess you can take the whole reactor out. You want to minimize water agitation. You don't need a UV sterilizer and I wouldn't use it. Maybe for green water but it's overkill.

You don't need the sump and overflow, which encourage water agitation, but if you don't want to accept the agitation, for big tanks a canister filter is most popular.

Water Parameters:
Ph: 7.0
Gh: 11*
Kh: 4*
Temp: 80
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: 5ppm
Iron: ? (just got a Seachem Kit, hard to tell - but seems very low, maybe .25)
Phosphate: ? (API kit was horrible, got Seachem kit, it’s bad as well - cannot tell)
Potassium: ? (no kit, never tested)

pH is high but probably about what I've got - 7.6 to 8.0. Doesn't bother most native-bred fish. GH is high but I think doable. KH is high, boosting the pH but you really can't do much about it short of mixing in RO/DI water. You don't need to dose Iron because it's in the substrate. Phosphate and Potassium are macro nutrients.

Currently I run the refugium lighting opposite the display tank lighting. Will the ferts hang around to be used by the refugium plants or should I switch to running the refugium and display tank lights at the same time since I don’t have a high tech tank for the nightly Ph swings?

Running the refugium opposite the main tank might do something to level out the temporary hardness (CO2) and pH (hope I got that right).

Steven


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## brandon429 (Mar 29, 2003)

all the long term planted tanks on my youtube page are ran with reef lights


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## dtopdawgie (Mar 28, 2014)

Wow, thank you all for the quick replies!

@FatherLandDescendant:
Yes, I do not use the water softner pillow anymore. I still have it around, but not planning on using it anytime soon!

@brandon429:
Thank you for the response. Lots of good stuff that makes sense!

@Django:
The light is specific for planted tanks, it is a 10k but has the reds and blues freshwater plants need. (http://www.buildmyled.com/10000k-planted-xb-series/)

My phospates seem to be about .75ppm from the tap (tested by the LFS), which I was told by the LFS I needed to bring that down to about .25ppm, then I was planning on removing the phosguard. Does this sound reasonable - or is .75 going to be used quick enough when I do a water change to not create algae from excess phospates?

You are correct, I have a massive trickle filter system and overflow in the tank, for this reason (nevermind the fact there is no room in the stand for a CO2 system) I was just planning on dosing excel, so I wouldn't have to worry about pressureized CO2 gassing off.

As with the others, thank a bunch for the reply, I really appreciate the feedback here!


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

Here are some problems I see.

Phosgaurd and low phosphates. I know your way too low because of 2 things. Poor growth and gsa. Both point to low phosphates. Low phosphates can create a barrier which doesn't allow plants to absorb other nutrients.

Low potassium is another problem. The holes in the foliage suggest low potassium. 

Your light is not ideal. 6500-6700k seem to be best for planted tanks.

Not doing regular water changes with a new tank is a bad thing. Its not a great thing even with established tanks. Changing the water replenishes the minerals that are essential to life, with hard water like yours you will have ample supply.

Over dosing doesn't lead to algae. Under dosing does. I too have a 75g and I don't run co2 or excel. My light is 10hours a day (finnex planted plus) which is 21" above the substrate. I have a healthy stock so I don't dose kno3 because nitrates are high enough due to fish waste. I dose 1 tsp k2so4 and 1/2 tsp k2hpo4 and 1/2 tsp planted csm+b weekly. 

I have zero algae and amazing growth. I don't check water parameters but I know if I dose less then this I start seeing plant deficiencies. Weekly water changes are a big part of my success. My tank is almost 5 months old.


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## dtopdawgie (Mar 28, 2014)

philipraposo1982, thanks for the reply and picture. Nice looking tank!

I'm planning on removing the phosguard and doing a water change tonight. However, the more I do change the water, the higher the Kh goes (without adding the water softner pillow which I'm tired of messing with), and raises the Ph. I'm concerned about having a high Ph for the fish, specifically the Pink Tailed Chalesus and my clown loach since they like around 7.0 and are my favorite fish.

What kind of Kh, Gh, and Ph do you guys maintain?

I'm a little confused on the reaction of several of you on my build my led lights. Cara from BML recommended the 10k planted if I was going to go with one light, and if I went High Tech add their 63k dutch planted for a second light. 


I was thinking of dosing like this:

2.5 ml (1/4 dose per the bottle instructions) of Flourish Comprehensive Saturday and Wednesday (for 1/2 total dose per the instructions on the bottle)
10ml (full dose per the bottle instructions) of excel daily
5 ml (for 30 gallons of water per the bottle instructions) of potassium daily
I have flourish iron but the comments seem to suggest my flourite is providing enough iron - so I may stop dosing iron.
My nitrates are slowly going up since I don't have a huge plant load so I don't think I need to dose any for now.
 What do you think?


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

Some specialty shops may use RO water in their tanks but most pet shops don't.
So if you live in an aria which uses the same water supply as the pet shops do you already have the water the fish are used to.
Dry ferts will cost much less in the long run. You might even copy what is being used
by philipraposo1982 and start from there as you have a noticably low amount of plants which can't use that much ferts yet. As this increases you can increase the ferts as well.


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## dtopdawgie (Mar 28, 2014)

Raymond S,

I was just crusing around the form looking at peoples tanks and questions, and noticed my tank is super low on plants. I came back here to ask, and you had already posted about it, haha! I've read it's easier to maintain a balance with more plants, but my wife doesn't want a "jungle" (no offense to anyone here, i like a heavier planted tank). So, with the lower amount of plants I have, does my dosing idea seem ok or should I tone it back some? I see philipraposo1982 has about 3 times the plant mass I do, should I cut his dosing in 1/3 and try it?

I seem to be able to tell a difference in the swords in the sump going from yellowish to greener when I add small amounts of K on along with a full dose of excel daily.

I was also reading that the directions on the flourish bottles are for low light tanks, I'm shooting for medium light and excel tank, so should I adjust anything based on that?

Thank you for posting so many helpful things guys! Maybe one day, I'll be able to help out someone struggling


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

Move to dry ferts as suggested will be a huge savings and more tweakable.

Your dosing is clearly insufficient at this time because your plants are not doing good. You should aim to dose similar to me but maybe dose a little less. Like instead of 1/2 you could dose a 1/4 ect.

The idea is to supply more than enough ferts. So long as you nitrates aren't 30+ ppm you shouldn't worry too much. You would need to dose a TON of dry ferts to do damage to fish and plants. I know many people who dose 2-4x more than ei recommends and still are good.


The reason your getting the feedback you are about your like is because its not the correct spectrum or ideal.

Flourish comp is only.micros nutrients and I would do 2 caps a week. Aim for a few days apart between each capful. Keep upping your potassium over the next month.until you don't see pinhole in any of your plants. Also ensure you have 2-5ppm phosphates. I think if you do this you will see imporvment.

As for root tabs I would suggest 1 per 3-5square inches. Replace every 4-5months

Your tap pH is not a huge issue. The bigger issues is the constant fluctuation in pH. If you keep up on pwcs and slowly get your tank to match your tank you and your fish will be much happier.

Also when making any changes to lighting or ferts you want to ensure slow progression . big changes will be hard to track results and can also throw things out of whack. Once I make a change like up my photoperiod and hour or add more or less ferts I will run the tank that way for 2-3 weeks and observe carefully. Watching new growth and fish will tell you a lot
Pay special attention to sensitive plants and fish. They will show signs the quickness of any distress or improvements.

Any other questions ask. I subscribed


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

One small detail...plants do not repair old leaves. The new growth will be without holes if you have enough ferts.


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

I assumed the op knew that, maybe I should of stated it though.


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## dtopdawgie (Mar 28, 2014)

Hello! I know it's been awhile since I posted on this thread, but I wanted to give an update.

I just got some dry ferts in the mail, and have decided to go the EI route with weekly water changes. As of now, I think I am spending more time each night testing my water and tracking the parameters on paper than I would to just drag out the hose, attach to sink, and do the water change once a week. So, I'm coming over to the dark side, haha! Also once I pay off some of this debt from the initial setup of the tank, I will be looking into pressurized co2. Any tips on a dual stage setup? I was looking at the package from GLA, it's around 700 bucks. I'm also concerned about my wet/dry sump. It is massive, like rated for a 250g saltwater massive, with a refugium! I was against using tape to seal the bio tower chamber, g-reactor, and refugium, but if I go pressurized, I'll be dragging out the painters tape, hopefully it won't be too much of a pain!

Thanks for all your help and comments!!!


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

> So, I'm coming over to the dark side, haha!


It is the other way around. You have seen the light!


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## dtopdawgie (Mar 28, 2014)

I love it, haha!


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## dtopdawgie (Mar 28, 2014)

Ok, I'm back with another question. I've got my dry ferts mixed in solution now. I used 1/3 the suggested EI measurements, with a target of 5ml of solution dosed.

Example:
The EI recommendation for KH2PO4 according to GLA where I bought the ferts for 60-80 gallon tank is 3/16 tsp, I took 1/3, so 1/16 and multiplied 16x5 to get 80 ml of water per 1 tsp of dry ferts. I hope that is correct math!!!

So life has been good and I've been doing weekly water changes and dosing 2 caps of excel daily with my BML XB lights dimmed to 50% and doing the 1/3 EI instructions. But I'm getting some brown algae now. I checked some water parameters, Phosphate is over 10ppm, and Nitrate is 20ppm. I'm scheduled for the water change today to reset everything.

What is going on here? I'm pretty sure my phosphate is WAY too high!

For feeding I alternate between 1 cube of hakari brine shrimp and spiritualina or 1 cube of hakari blood worms and I also try to target feed my Krib with a few aquadine flakes each night.

The kicker is, I am going out of town for 14 days and my mother will be staying at my house watching things. I need to figure out some sort of a plan before I leave. Any help would be appreciated, thanks!


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

Its not that unreasonable to have high phos. But its not the cause of your algae. I would guess its due to the foods your feeding and waste. Tank is probably.not clean enough. Too much organics. Don't cut on your ferts.

Picture of the algae is good too.


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