# Terrible newb: Fish in an uncycled tank



## JJW (Sep 6, 2014)

Three days ago I set up a 20 gal planted tank. I used a water conditioner, waited 24 hours, then added plants and 5 neon tetras. THEN I read about cycling. One fish from the get go kind of stayed to himself and is now spinning. The others seem ok, but I'm not sure how to proceed. I don't want to make these fish suffer. Would it be possible to use Seachem Stability to jump ahead in the process here, and if so, can I add it with the fish in the tank. Any help is greatly appreciated!


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## observing (Feb 2, 2010)

If all you added was 5 neons to a 20 you are not in any danger of having problems with cycling. Just do reasonable size water changes every week 25-35% and don't add any fish for at least 2 - 3 weeks. The cycling will take care of itself, if you take things slowly.


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## JJW (Sep 6, 2014)

Thanks, Observing, that's a tremendous relief. I was very worried that I'd made a very dumb blunder right at the start.


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## greaser84 (Feb 2, 2014)

observing said:


> If all you added was 5 neons to a 20 you are not in any danger of having problems with cycling. Just do reasonable size water changes every week 25-35% and don't add any fish for at least 2 - 3 weeks. The cycling will take care of itself, if you take things slowly.


I beg to differ. I recommend getting some testing kits ammonia, nitrites, nitrates. And watching very closely, because those fish will most likely to exposed to some ammonia and nitrites.


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## CluelessAquarist (Apr 5, 2014)

Neon tetras are pretty delicate fish. They are always in large quantities in pet stores, which makes them seem like a hardy fish, but they really aren't. I would do a 20% water change twice a week for a few weeks, then go to around 30% once a week for a while. Test kits and things are nice, and I have them, but when I started I just made sure I got my WC's on time and everything worked out.


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## UpstateSCguy (Apr 26, 2011)

I agree with greaser. Back when I was a fish "newb" I had added fish to a tank that hadn't cycled. Then I found some info on the web, and realized what mistake I had made. I immediately went out and bought a test kit. For a while, I was doing water changes daily to make sure both the ammonia and nitrite stayed at acceptable levels for my fish...thankfully they made it through it. I'm afraid weekly water changes won't be enough.


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

You can buy the correct species of bacteria. 
Look for Nitrospira on the bottle and do not waste your money on anything else. 

The second and third articles in this link are about the proper species of bacteria. 
http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/resources/library-presentations/scientific-papers

The correct species can be found in 
Dr. Tim's One and Only
Tetra Safe Start
and perhaps others. Read the label.


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## JJW (Sep 6, 2014)

Ok, that's still better than I feared. Thank you all. I'll begin 2x a week water changes today.


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

I feel as though your being mislead here a bit.

Just doing a weekly or 2x a week pwcs is great but it really doesn't ensure a safe environment for these fish. The only try way to ensure water quality is good is to TEST IT! with that said getting a master kit is critic for at least the early stages in take development and great to have for later on too.

Since your new to fish keeping I am almost sure your making the mistake of overfeeding which is all too common. This will create a poor water condition due to excess organics. By testing the ammonia levels daily and nitrites you can ensure your at safe levels. I suggest feeding your fish once every 2-3 days and only enough that they can eat in 1.5 minutes, ensure no food in falling to the substrate.

By following my recommendation you will provide enough food and avoid overfeeding.

Also, by adding floating plants to a new tank you can help with the uptake or toxins. Hornwort, water sprite are some great choices. 

Another product you can look at is ATM colony, it works.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Diana said:


> You can buy the correct species of bacteria.
> Look for Nitrospira on the bottle and do not waste your money on anything else.
> 
> The second and third articles in this link are about the proper species of bacteria.
> ...





greaser84 said:


> I beg to differ. I recommend getting some testing kits ammonia, nitrites, nitrates. And watching very closely, because those fish will most likely to exposed to some ammonia and nitrites.


I second the above advice. It's hard to say for sure how high the ammonia and nitrite might be spiking in your tank, but your fish are already showing severe distress, and lots of gill and other internal damage may be occuring with your other fish even though they are not showing visible symptoms yet.

A test kit would be the only way to be positive how much water you need to change how often to bring and keep your ammonia and nitrites below dangerous levels. 

As your fish are already in distress, you need to do a large water change ASAP. I'd do at least 75-80%, and then keep changing at least 75% daily, you might need to change that 2x/day... no way to know for sure without a test kit.

Yes, your stocking is relatively light at this point for a 20gal tank, so the ammonia and nitrites should not be building extremely quickly... but given the fact that Neons are NOT good fish to cycle a tank with, I personally think you need to prioritize giving them the best possible chance to heal from whatever damage has already been done, and they don't have a shot at healing in less than perfect water.

Poor quality water at this point puts them at extremely high risk for a secondary bacterial or fungal infection, and if any of the fish happen to be carrying any type of parasite, weakened immune systems can trigger epidemics.


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## JJW (Sep 6, 2014)

I have been testing the water, since before I put the fish in, tho not for ammonia because my test kit did not include it. I'll be picking up an ammonia test kit today. The one fish was behaving strangely (staying by himself) right away, then began twirling a day later. I'm still hoping that that guy had an unrelated problem. The others are still acting normally. And we have been feeding VERY lightly, and not allowing any uneaten bits to remain. So, there's that at least.


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## Knotyoureality (Aug 3, 2012)

Up to you how much risk you want to take, but you should be doing full testing to know how the tank is cycling and--barring that--massive daily water changes will go a long way to maintaining the health of the tank. 

Even when I'm working with a pre-seeded filter and lots of transplanted hard/soft scape elements to carry in beneficial bacteria, I still do a minimum of 25%-30% wc daily for the first week of a new tank set up if I'm having to stock it immediately.


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## JJW (Sep 6, 2014)

Knotyoureality said:


> Up to you how much risk you want to take, but you should be doing full testing to know how the tank is cycling and--barring that--massive daily water changes will go a long way to maintaining the health of the tank.
> 
> Even when I'm working with a pre-seeded filter and lots of transplanted hard/soft scape elements to carry in beneficial bacteria, I still do a minimum of 25%-30% wc daily for the first week of a new tank set up if I'm having to stock it immediately.


After the first week, how often do you do your wc with a new tank? 

http://www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

doing daily / every other day wc's would ensure you never need to test the water so long as the amount of water you can is around 30-50% you will be replacing enough to keep levels close to 0 which is what you want.


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## JJW (Sep 6, 2014)

philipraposo1982 said:


> doing daily / every other day wc's would ensure you never need to test the water so long as the amount of water you can is around 30-50% you will be replacing enough to keep levels close to 0 which is what you want.



For how long would I do daily or every other day wcs?
http://www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

Till the cycle is done.

If your using one of the above products mention you don't do wcs unless something goes wrong but since your not currently and are not actively testing then keep doing wcs and underfeed.


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## Toadette (May 24, 2014)

Something to add, Seachem Prime can lock up small amounts of ammonia and nitrite in your water for a 24 to 48 hour period.

I really want to stress that using Prime shouldn't replace the advice giving here, but it could be used to control the amounts of nasties between water changes. This is how I use it if I get even a spec of ammonia or nitrite when I pre-seed an aquarium with a sponge filter. I water change, water change, water change, but I also treat with Prime.

It should also be warned that Prime is a reducer. It will take oxygen from the water.


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## goodbytes (Aug 18, 2014)

I wouldn't be too concerned about this if I were you. I usually do fish-in cycling with Neon Tetras specifically because of their affordability and relative hardiness. I've probably done it six or seven times and as long as you do a weekly 20-30% water change they should be fine although you'll probably lose at least one. For a 20 gallon I would have only cycled with two or three Neon Tetras. After a few weeks your aquarium should be relatively stable--stable enough to add a few more. Just don't add a whole bunch in a single throw because your aquarium needs time to adjust to an increased bioload. This is especially true with smaller aquariums like tens and twenties which are more sensitive to additions than larger tanks.


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## JJW (Sep 6, 2014)

Well, I have to say, thanks again, this is all hugely helpful.


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