# Super glue tank safe?



## wuhungsix

I bought some Manzanita and a couple pieces are were broken during shipping. Wondering if Super Glue is aquarium safe. Or does anyone have any recomendation to glue together wood. wood glue?


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## kyle3

no data

but my instinct says NO WAY

a little tube of silicone is cheep

cheers-K


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## hokuryu

I don't know - I've seen many people attest to super glue being tank safe (as long as we're talking true cyanoacrylate). I was considering this myself when thinking of ways to attach some driftwood to slate I intended to anchor in my new tank. The one issue I've seen is that the longevity - which I suppose many talk about using super glue gel to attach nana to rocks and driftwood, for instance, but I haven't seen a good deal on using it to permanently anchor driftwood or fix structural problems in the tank.


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## Homer_Simpson

Actually, when another poster on this forum mentioned using crazy glue to stick java ferns to driftwood. I thought the same thing.....NO WAY, and was ready to jump at his throat and scold him. But before doing that, I thought I would do some research. Googling the topic of using crazy glue in aquariums, I found numerous references to people using crazy glue in salt water tanks as well as freshwater tanks for ornaments, etc., without incident. I didn't come across a single reference referencing any crazy glue related fish deaths, although I guess that would be hard to prove since fish could die from so many causes. Either way, I am not convinced that it is toxic to fish. A month ago, I crazy glued some java ferns to river rock and placed them in 3 of my tanks, to date no fish have died of toxicity. And even in the tank where I have mostly Amano Shrimp(shrimp are generally the most sensitive to water toxins), the shrimp are still all alive and about, eating, appear healthy and are accounted for. They show no symptoms of crazy glue toxicity, at least not yet, but time will tell.


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## metageologist

unless it states non toxic i would not try it and even if i day say non toxic i wouldnt trust it. that stroncg odor you can smell from it is VOC's and what will be left are SVOC's that will leach into the water over time. both of these groups are so toxic in water that some areas have a groundwater limit of 0.5ppm


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## BiscuitSlayer

Some people use it to glue java fern and anubias to wood. Many people swear by it.

Personally, I would go the silicone route along with a zip tie or two.


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## suebe333

I did research and have found that alot of aquarist use the gel super glue and swear by it


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## kyle3

interesting that i can give off toxic fumes int eh air and not release the same chemicals in the water

but like i said in the first line of my post- no data

cheers-K


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## kid creole

kyle3 said:


> no data
> 
> but my instinct says NO WAY
> 
> a little tube of silicone is cheep
> 
> cheers-K


I would have the same gut feel based on the smell and the outgassing, but I know that after it is cured there is no smell or taste. 

Many reefers use it, and if it's good enough for them, it's good enough for me.


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## kid creole

From the wikipedia page:


> The fumes from CA are a vaporized form of the cyanoacrylate monomer that irritate sensitive membranes in the eyes, nose and throat. They immediately are polymerized by the moisture in the membranes and become inert.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanoacrylate


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## solution7

Wow this is really interesting. I would have never thought of using sup[er glue. I just attatched a fern to some wood by using sewing thread to tie it on and what a pain in *ss that was.. 

I might try the glue next time


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## brion0

I used a tube an a half gluing ferns an anubias in my 55g. Tried using it under water but it works better if you take the wood or rocks out. Fish didn't appear to be affected buy it. Think its very common for reef tank people to use it in attaching corals.


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## purgatori27

Unless I am mistaken, silicone also smells VERY strong when in the tube, but is harmless after cured. I would figure super glue would be the same way. Having said that, I still wouldn't use super glue. As mentioned in the posts above, I'd probably choose a safer route of string/zip tie, silicone or even a low temp hot melt gun over super glue. I didn't even know you could use super glue on something as porous as wood. Never tried duck tape either though, so I wouldn't know. =}


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## kyle3

purgitori27 good point 

lord knows thread is a pain-glad to know there's another option

cheers-K


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## epicfish

Super glue is safe.

Despite it's toxic smell, etc...it will film up (polymerization reaction) almost immediately when in contact with water. It was originally used to close open wounds in humans when suture material was not readily available.


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## hokuryu

epicfish said:


> Super glue is safe.
> 
> Despite it's toxic smell, etc...it will film up (polymerization reaction) almost immediately when in contact with water. It was originally used to close open wounds in humans when suture material was not readily available.


I don't know where I saw this earlier (and going on short-term memory, now), but I seem to recall the surgical stuff is a slightly different formulation, an octyl-group as opposed to a methyl group for the cyanoacrylate. I think the methyl group cements are known for their breakdown into formaldehyde, hence some of the concerns. 

But I also recall what you're saying - the polymerization is so rapid, not much of an issue. That, coupled with what I've simply read on the vast amount of practical use seen among reef aquarists, led me to feel sanguine about its use.


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## purgatori27

It's so crazy, it just might work! I may just have to experiment with this (going completely against what I said earlier...women changing their minds...go figure). I just got in a great shipment of lava rocks. I was trying to figure out exactly how I wanted to attach the Java Moss, Christmas Moss, and Java Fern. I just happen to have some super glue gel, so it looks like I will be a scientist tomorrow! I'll keep you posted.


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## epicfish

hokuryu said:


> I don't know where I saw this earlier (and going on short-term memory, now), but I seem to recall the surgical stuff is a slightly different formulation, an octyl-group as opposed to a methyl group for the cyanoacrylate. I think the methyl group cements are known for their breakdown into formaldehyde, hence some of the concerns.
> 
> But I also recall what you're saying - the polymerization is so rapid, not much of an issue. That, coupled with what I've simply read on the vast amount of practical use seen among reef aquarists, led me to feel sanguine about its use.


All PCA (polycyanoacrylate) compounds still release formaldehyde during degradation. Yes, large alkyl polymers do release less formaldehyde, but the bigger reason they are used is because of reduced heat production during the polymerization process, leading to less tissue necrosis and irritation.

Interestingly enough, the "original" Krazy glue contains nearly 100% ethyl cyanoacrylate, which is still in use in some medical CA compounds today, mainly in the form of impenetrable liquid bandages. 

With that said, heat production isn't a big factor when used in general aquaria, neither is the toxicity since polymerization begins almost immediately upon introduction of the CA compound to moisture/water.


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## brion0

Use the gel type super glue.


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## hokuryu

epicfish said:


> All PCA (polycyanoacrylate) compounds still release formaldehyde during degradation. Yes, large alkyl polymers do release less formaldehyde, but the bigger reason they are used is because of reduced heat production during the polymerization process, leading to less tissue necrosis and irritation.
> 
> Interestingly enough, the "original" Krazy glue contains nearly 100% ethyl cyanoacrylate, which is still in use in some medical CA compounds today, mainly in the form of impenetrable liquid bandages.
> 
> With that said, heat production isn't a big factor when used in general aquaria, neither is the toxicity since polymerization begins almost immediately upon introduction of the CA compound to moisture/water.


Wow! - fascinating, Epic, thanks for the info. Especially so, the notion of forestalling necrosis. Do you happen to have any source material on this? Layman, former Corpsman/ortho scrub, dilettante's interest in medicine...


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## Trallen44

I use it on myself when I get a cut, and it heals up a lot faster. You just need to make sure and stop the bleeding first to get a good seal on the cut.


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## Minsc

As pointed out, Super Glue is tank safe and a better alternative to Band-Aids much of the time:icon_smil

It does break down in water though, which is not a problem when using it on something that will naturally attach over time, such as a java fern or coral plug. However, using it to attach non-living objects, the bond will probably only last a few months. Super Glue also cures an ugly white color underwater. 
Again, not an issue if it is going to be grown over, but worth considering otherwise.


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## Giolz

Super safe, i use it in my reef and planted all the time. I really like Loktite Super Glue Gel because it forms a crust and cures fast under water. It is 100% cyanoacrylate. Though for direct contact to plants/corals i never use it. I use it for hardscape and equipment.


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## Superedwin

Yeah i use super glue and it is safe, depend which you get.. But silicone would be your better choice


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## wuhungsix

Well I will give it try and see how it holds up. Was thinking of wiring the broken pieces and hiding the mend with moss.


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## Giolz

You can use aquamend putty to stick the wood together with the broken pieces. It's about 4 dollars at Lowes or Homedepot and is great for repairs.
http://images.the-house.com/aquamend_l-prod.jpg


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## KDahlin

Minsc said:


> It does break down in water though, which is not a problem when using it on something that will naturally attach over time, such as a java fern or coral plug. However, using it to attach non-living objects, the bond will probably only last a few months. Super Glue also cures an ugly white color underwater.
> Again, not an issue if it is going to be grown over, but worth considering otherwise.


Well, when it breaks down in water, does it release formaldehyde? According to Epic, it releases formaldehyde when it degrades.



epicfish said:


> All PCA (polycyanoacrylate) compounds still release formaldehyde during degradation.


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## epicfish

KDahlin said:


> Well, when it breaks down in water, does it release formaldehyde? According to Epic, it releases formaldehyde when it degrades.


Yes, all PCA compounds release formaldehyde upon degradation. As hokuryu stated earlier, the larger groups (ie: octyl) degrade less and more slowly than smaller alkyl groups. With all the water changes we (are supposed to) do, I doubt that the formaldehyde would pose long-term danger, especially given the amount of CA we use when gluing plants to rock, etc..

And hokuryu, let me try to dig up some papers. I've forgotten the password to my proxy to let me access ScienceDirect and other archives. I'll mirror them once I find the papers.


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## Minsc

KDahlin said:


> Well, when it breaks down in water, does it release formaldehyde? According to Epic, it releases formaldehyde when it degrades.


I'm going to defer to Epic for that one:help:

My comment was based on my experiences. After a few months, the white glue splotches disappear, and any plants that haven't anchored themselves to something will start to break loose. At no point have I seen health problems in fish or shrimp that I could associate with the glue. My current low tech tank has had numerous gluings over the past year, and the shrimp and fish are thriving.

Take from that what you will, I'm certainly no scientist!


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## Left C

Here are some underwater epoxy products. 
http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/10523/product.web

AquaStik Putty - Stone Grey - 4 oz. 

The AquaStik Stone Grey Epoxy works on dry, damp, or wet surfaces and cures underwater. AquaStik is non-toxic to fish, invertebrates, aquatic plants, reptiles and small animals. It is excellent for attaching live rock, stony corals, gorgonians, aquatic plants, and other aquascaping items. It also bonds to wood, concrete, ceramics, acrylic, metals, and fiberglass. Aquastik can be drilled, sanded, sawed, and machined and is useful for making repairs.

AquaStik is hand kneadable and fast curing. It has no strong oder. It mixes in minutes and hardens in 20 minutes. It is at full strength cure in 24 hours. The stick format eliminates waste or mis-proportioning. The clay-like consistency affords no-mess application requiring no tools. It can be used in marine and freshwater aquariums, ponds, reptile and small animal habitats.


Aqua Stick Putty for Marine Reefs - Red - 2 oz.

Help those corals get a grip in your tank. Use Aquastick red putty to secure your reef specimins to live rock. Red color looks like beautiful corraline algae. Excellent for securing rock, stony corals, gorgonians and aquatic plants. Non-toxic to fish, plants & small animals. Cures dry, damp, or underwater.


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## chicken

I love super glue. I use it all the time, and have seen no ill effects in fish or shrimp.

Just last week I decided to try it on some susswassertang. We'll see how that goes. :hihi:


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## marrow

Dont expect it to hold any heavy objects together or any objects that are under stress. Its bonding ability deteriorates pretty quickly in water, even faster as the water gets warmer or more acidic. Glue two pieces of steel together and then run them through a dishwasher cycle or leave them submerged for a few days in water and they will easily pull apart. I am not surprised that they work well for holding moss onto things as that does not seem to require much strength anyway. I have used Krazy glue for clean slice cuts, you can buy the official medical version of it for several times the price.


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## wendyjo

I also use superglue (I actually us nail glue - same thing) to attach ferns and moss to the decor in my tank. I've tried string - it's hard to do and typically rots before the plants take hold. The glue works great and I've not seen any harm to fish or plants from it.


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## kzimmerman

Superglue is aquarium safe, but will not create a lasting bond. Either would wood glues. I personally would go with five minute epoxy, once it cures, it's completely inert, and will last longer in an aquarium than the wood will.


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## TubaTime1010

We use cyanoacrylate glue all the time in saltwater. Heck, we even put it RIGHT on the coral to attach them. I recommend LocTite


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## Alastair

I've used superglue successfully for sticking fragged corals, it's been accepted as "reef safe" for many years. As mentioned above, it cures almost instantly on contact with moisture.

To use superglue on a porous surface, either use superglue gel (which is what is used in reef tanks because coral sksletons are also porous) or apply a thin coat to each surface, allow it to harden, then stick the two pieces together with another thin application to the now hardened contact surfaces.


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## Hilde

suebe333 said:


> I did research and have found that alot of aquarist use the gel super glue and swear by it


Note it is the gel that they are using.


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## Alastair

The only reason reefers use gel is that it's nigh on impossible to use the liquid on wet and porous substances. The liquid soaks in and sets in an instant on contact with moisture. Using gel buys you 30 seconds to work.


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## chuck3

*Take a page from the saltwater guys. . . *

There are lots of 'reef safe' superglue type products. My favorite is "Boston Aqua Farms". . . especially the 'thicker' formula. Holds as well -- or almost as well as superglue, and if corals and inverts tolerate it, it's safe. Comes in a three or four ounce bottle. . . which amounts to MANY smaller tubes of superglue. 

Chuck


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## coppycatt

Super glue is definitely safe. I've used tons of it in saltwater tanks to attach corals. It starts to harden as soon as it contacts water so you end up with no leaching of chemicals. It does generate a bit of heat as it sets up.


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## DrEd

It should be OK. I think the glue (New Skin?) sold in drug store is some kind of cyanoacrylate. It might have a different ester group, though. I just found something very intereting that 'some midwives have even used over-the-counter Super Glue (Krazy Glue) successfully in lieu of suture to close the perineum' (http://www.fensende.com/Users/swnymph/refs/glue.html). many years ago, I used to have a bottle of special super glue (with a different ester group, I believe) from a military lab that they use for stopping the bleeding in the battle field especially at high altitude, I think. I used it the wrong way and it stays inside my body (I was told later that it's better to use it on the surface of the wound although they use it internally as well). Anyway I never feel anything funny. Once it cures, it should be safe. And water actually trigger the cure. AS long as you are not dumping a whole bottle into the tank, the fish should be safe.


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## o snap its eric

just playing devils advocate, the back of the super glue package says it's not aquarium safe. I thought about using it before but after reading the warning i was unsure and decided not to. So small amount is okay just not a lot?


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## Centromochlus

Wish i would have known super glue was safe to use in aquariums before i put my driftwood in.. at least i know now though.


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## RianS

why don't you use gorilla glue?
if you read the testimony or info on it from home depot it says non toxic doesn't change ph and doesn't leach chemicals...
of course i've yet to try


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## Vladdy

NO. I've gotten super glue in my eye when I was putting together a model car kit You do not want to know what that feels like. Super glue very irritant, and burns like boiling water if it gets in your eyes, and will do so for a week. Smell a tube of super glue. It has a pungent chemical kind of smell. If it says keep out of reach of children, then you should keep it out of reach of your fish. It will leach in your water, and kill your fish and plants in a short amount of time. Just get some aquarium silicone. It costs like six bucks a tube though. Do not use any other type of silicone.


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## Vladdy

AzFishKid said:


> Wish i would have known super glue was safe to use in aquariums before i put my driftwood in.. at least i know now though.


It isn't safe for aquariums. :fish:


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## epicfish

o snap its eric said:


> just playing devils advocate, the back of the super glue package says it's not aquarium safe. I thought about using it before but after reading the warning i was unsure and decided not to. So small amount is okay just not a lot?


Once it sets, it's fine. But I'm sure you can see the potential problem if someone were to use half a tube of superglue in their aquarium only to have their prizeed $15,000 fish swim right into and eat a glob or get stuck in it and die, right? They're just avoiding unforseen liability issues with that statement. Chemically, it is safe once it sets.



Vladdy said:


> NO. I've gotten super glue in my eye when I was putting together a model car kit You do not want to know what that feels like. Super glue very irritant, and burns like boiling water if it gets in your eyes, and will do so for a week. Smell a tube of super glue. It has a pungent chemical kind of smell. If it says keep out of reach of children, then you should keep it out of reach of your fish. It will leach in your water, and kill your fish and plants in a short amount of time. Just get some aquarium silicone. It costs like six bucks a tube though. Do not use any other type of silicone.


Yes, it does have a pungent chemical smell...because it hasn't set yet. It says to keep out of reach of children, but that's because they put everything into their mouths'. 

So what in the polymeric structure of cyanoacrylate will leech into the water column once it's set? Please point out that part can leech in the structure of say, ethyl cyanoacrylate:










Or methy cyanoacrylate:










...or any of the cyanoacrylate compounds used as glue.

As far as silicone, specially-designated aquarium silicone is not necessary. GE Type I Window & Door silicone without BioSeal or any anti-algal or anti-fungal agents is commonly used.

More information can be found by clicking the image:


I wish people would do their fair share of research before posting their opinions as facts.


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## ER9

solution7 said:


> Wow this is really interesting. I would have never thought of using sup[er glue. I just attatched a fern to some wood by using sewing thread to tie it on and what a pain in *ss that was..
> 
> I might try the glue next time


it works great. i used it to attach my java fern to a piece of wet driftwood. been attaced for a couple months and holding strong. never saw any indication of irritation to fish. i think its less toxic cured than acrylic. if you knew what the chemicals were that made up that stuff you would be really scared. very nasty stuff but once its cured its safe and relatively non toxic.


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## daFrimpster

Vladdy said:


> It isn't safe for aquariums. :fish:



Sorry, bro' you are wrong on this one. All my fish would be dead if it weren't safe. I ahve been using pure cyanoacrylate super glue gel in my tanks for years. Never a problem in salt or fresh water tanks


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## Vladdy

Very convincing, epicfish


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## NanoDan

I've super glued my fingers to models many times LOL it harmless


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## reddragon1977

think you could use the glue to attach moss?


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## epicfish

reddragon1977 said:


> think you could use the glue to attach moss?


Yes. Any parts of the moss that touches the glue will die though.


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## chuck3

*AGGGH!. . . Don't use that 'caulking tube' stuff shown above*

Okay, maybe I'm just a paranoid mostly-saltwater guy, but that caulking-gun sized tube of silicone shown above contains an agent guaranteed to kill mold, etc. for years to come. Now. . . anything that kills mold dead is going to be toxic -- in fact, deliberately so. Particularly with respect to inverts like shrimp. The same company makes a non-toxic aquarium silicone. . . not every hardware story carries it, and the tubes tend to be much smaller. Here in Socal I get it from OSH (Orchard Hardware). . . Home Depot doesn't seem to carry it. . . but the saltwater rule (where organisms have no built-in organic 'buffer' between them and the water) is. . . super glue yes, (cured) silicone yes. . . this toxic stuff, NO!

Chuck


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## epicfish

chuck3 said:


> Okay, maybe I'm just a paranoid mostly-saltwater guy, but that caulking-gun sized tube of silicone shown above contains an agent guaranteed to kill mold, etc. for years to come. Now. . . anything that kills mold dead is going to be toxic -- in fact, deliberately so. Particularly with respect to inverts like shrimp. The same company makes a non-toxic aquarium silicone. . . not every hardware story carries it, and the tubes tend to be much smaller. Here in Socal I get it from OSH (Orchard Hardware). . . Home Depot doesn't seem to carry it. . . but the saltwater rule (where organisms have no built-in organic 'buffer' between them and the water) is. . . super glue yes, (cured) silicone yes. . . this toxic stuff, NO!
> 
> Chuck


Actually, what I posted was GE Silicone I which does NOT contain Bio-Seal. 

GE Silicone II with BioSeal (anti-fungl and anti-mold agents) is what you want to avoid.


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## Bugman

Vladdy said:


> It isn't safe for aquariums. :fish:


I have used it for 1 1/2 years now!! It is absolutely safe!! I have 50 tanks at the house and I probably have plants superglued to driftwood in 18 or 20 of them. I know salties that have been using it for years to glue coral in their tanks.


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## jaidexl

brion0 said:


> Use the gel type super glue.


+1

Surprised I missed this topic. I've been using SuperGlue Gel for a while now. Still lots of suspicion from others but...

If reefers are mounting SPS coral frags with it then NUF SAID! There isn't a better test of safety and reputability then getting between a hardcore reefer and his $150 acro frag. They aren't sitting around waiting for it to cure either.

Gel works better, and is less likely to get washed off by the current. A layer of aquarium apoxy between two layers of SG Gel works even better for deep surfaces like LR.


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## f u z z

Super glue gel works a lot better. I use this very often with my 75 reef tank. I use it to attach corals to rocks, and or plugs. You can also use the plumbers epoxy (the gray / white silly putty like tube) it is also aquarium safe.


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## skinz180189

What would you guys recommend for glueing rocks together then, the epoxy stuff?

EDIT: Jesus that stuffs expensive here in the UK. Hot glue gun?


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## hbosman

I bought Super Glue a while back that said "Potable water safe". I used it to attach a piece of stiff tubing to an external CO2 reactor and had no problems for over a year. I've kept Cherry Shrimp and Cardinal Tetras during this time.


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## skinz180189

I ended up buying some aquarium silcone, figured if it holds rock backgrounds then it will hold rocks in structural designs. Rather not risk it with glue after what I've read.


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