# Black spot algae on Annubias



## Philosophos (May 7, 2009)

Increase your PO4 levels and get your anubias out of the light.

-Philosophos


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## JoePhish (Oct 23, 2009)

Get them "Out" of the light.
I never would have guessed that.
But the PO4 your right, it is high and I'm working on that.


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## Philosophos (May 7, 2009)

No, if anything you WANT high PO4; it'll reduce GSA.

I've found anubias just doesn't grow fast enough under high light, even with non-limiting CO2, to prevent GSA consistently. It's far easier stuff to grow under lower light values until you've got your methods perfected.

-Philosophos


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## JoePhish (Oct 23, 2009)

Oh sorry. I misread.
MORE PO4.
Hmmmm. Going to have to figure out how to increase JUST the PO4.


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## Philosophos (May 7, 2009)

I suppose I should've asked what you're dosing right now. What are your targets and methods? How much does your tap add, and if possible what does a calibrated test kit say about PO4?

-Philosophos


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## MarkMc (Apr 27, 2007)

Philosophos said:


> No, if anything you WANT high PO4; it'll reduce GSA.
> 
> I've found anubias just doesn't grow fast enough under high light, even with non-limiting CO2, to prevent GSA consistently. It's far easier stuff to grow under lower light values until you've got your methods perfected.
> 
> -Philosophos


That's interesting. Low phosphates causes GSA?


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## nismo tetra (Oct 11, 2009)

from the sounds of it, I read it as low phosphates doesn't necissarily cause GSA. But a higher level will help reduce it from growing.


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## MarkMc (Apr 27, 2007)

nismo tetra said:


> from the sounds of it, I read it as low phosphates doesn't necissarily cause GSA. But a higher level will help reduce it from growing.


Either one is interesting. Curious to know if it's a scientific finding or a subjective observation.


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## Philosophos (May 7, 2009)

Low phosphates seem to induce more favorable conditions for GSA than high. I've found my GSA problems pretty much gone outside of slow growth on hardscape and glass; a scrub of the back glass with the magfloat every month or two seems to keep it almost nonexistent. The hardscape only gets it on one log that seems to attract the stuff, but even that is maybe a yearly cleanup at most. It's never stopped growth completely for me, or killed it, but the spread has definitely slowed to a level that no longer bothers me.

The science on it isn't something I understand yet; only that It has worked for me, and has had no ill effects that I am aware of. I run about 5ppm of PO4. It's definitely something worth trying, and it beats waiting for the life cycle to run its course. 

Be prepared to increase your K+ if PO4 was previously on the lean/limiting side. I hit mild K+ deficiency the first time I did it.

Tom Barr recommends PO4 for GSA here:
http://www.barrreport.com/general-plant-topics/3762-green-spot-algae-treament-suggestions.html

And I'm finding his posts behind a lot of the recommendation when I look around. I've created a thread over on TBR and ask about it, though the algae board is in the members only section:
http://www.barrreport.com/algae-control/6439-gsa-po4.html#post42996

I'll share any info I get.

-Philosophos


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## fish dork (Jan 13, 2008)

Do you have a pic of the Anubius? Is it for sure GSA? My anubius gets a black spot algae that I'm sure is a type of BBA.


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## JoePhish (Oct 23, 2009)

Wow. Didn't realize I would get this much attention when I started this thread, but this is great stuff.

My Annubias also gets the black spot type of algae, and it is on my annubias ONLY.

Keep it comming, this is great stuff.
(Guess I better start watching this thread  )


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## Amazonfish (Oct 20, 2009)

My anubias have the same problem actually. They have black spots on them, and it's only on my anubias. I was just searching the algae forum to find a solution to this! They're in a 5.5 gallon tank with a 27 watt desk lamp. Before I move the anubias, I'll try adding more phosphate.


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## JoePhish (Oct 23, 2009)

Ok. Still having a problem with the annubias but now I made things worse.
I increased the light (10g) to two 26w CFL's. Now I know this is WAY too much light for the annubias, so I increased my Co2 in hopes that this would help. I also increased my ferts.

BBA outbreak all over the place. It's growing on my Val's, my Crypts, annubias, even my java fern. And to top it off, my micro swords all died.

I'm sure that it is because I don't have enough Co2 for the amount of light that I'm pumping in. Rigfht now I'm waiting on my order of Flourish Excell to come in and hopefully that will help.

In the mean time, I have removed my annubias and place them in my guppie drop/grow out tank wich has just a standard flor bulb over it. Still have some BBA on it but as soon as I get some new growth I will trim off the infected parts and try to save the plant.

I can't afford to go with pressurized Co2. So does anyone have any suggestion on what to do to salvage the rest of the tank?


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## Philosophos (May 7, 2009)

Reduce the light to 1x26w or less if you can. Unless you've got some sensitive ground covers that are easily overshadowed, try to drop your lighting to something more in the 1.5wpg range. Keep the CO2 high.

From there, mechanically remove as much of the BBA as you can; clip stems, scrub hardscape, etc. When the excel arrives, spot treat the BBA daily at post WC levels. Change your water frequently for a while; every couple of days.


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## cjp999 (Nov 18, 2008)

This thread started talking about "black spot algae", but this discussion only seems to be about GSA and BBA. I also get black spots on my anubias, and I've never seen any algae pictures that look like it. Maybe it is a form of BBA, because it goes away with spot treatment of Excel. However, it is not hairy, and cannot be wiped off. Anyone know what it might be?

As for GSA and phosphates, I always have problems with GSA on anubias and crypts in my low light tanks (standard 15W fluorescent for 10g tank). Raising phosphates never helped (I brought them above 3). I think high phosphates are just one of a few adjustments you may need to make.


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## Philosophos (May 7, 2009)

Is there a difference besides color? I know some algae shifts its pigments to better match the spectrum its being fed. GSA is generally considered to be Coleochaete orbicularis, though it wouldn't surprise me if other Coleochaete spp. get lumped into the mix as well. Is there a specific binomial for black spot?


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## cjp999 (Nov 18, 2008)

I would have to say it is somewhat similar to the GSA I've seen, but there are differences. They both grow as spots and are very hard to remove manually. However, I've had little success spot treating GSA with Excel, whereas the black spot algae seems to go away quit readily after 3 days of treatement. Also, my BNP eats the GSA but not the black spot algae. Note that I don't see GSA growing in the tank with the BNP and black spot algae. However, I recently moved an anubias with quite a bit of GSA on it into this tank, and it was gone the next day. I'm pretty sure it was the BNP that ate it.


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## Philosophos (May 7, 2009)

I understand that it looks different, but I'm not understanding how anyone is separating morphology from species here. It doesn't seem all that distinct in its growth form, etc. and there's just about zero information on black spot algae vs. GSA. In much the same way "red beard algae" and "black beard algae" are the same species (or at least genus) the only thing people in the hobby usually do to distinguish is look at the color and decide to call it a different species. The truth is that BBA and RBA can be the identical species with slightly different morphology based on growth conditions. *


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## cjp999 (Nov 18, 2008)

From my experience, the difference between GSA and "BSA" is that:


BSA seems to be controllable with Excel, GSA is not.
GSA seems to be enjoyed by my pleco, GSA is not.
GSA grows in my low light tanks, BSA only in my high light tank.
Problem is as far as I know there is no such thing as BSA. I've never seen it called by this name in any algae FAQ, nor have I seen any documented algae meet it's description. If it is closely related to GSA, it is different enough in its characteristics to warrant it being described separately when it comes to identifying and treating it.


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## Philosophos (May 7, 2009)

Sounds like this is something worth looking at closer then. I could see the differences you've listed as being morphology still; algae changes forms depending on available nutrients and health. Just as a for instance, diatoms depend on silicates for frustule formation; take away the silicates and they break down. In black beard algae I've observed that it turns red when the cell walls are ruptured and the chlorophyll destroyed, but the phycoerythyrin remains leaving it bright red, suddenly otos and shrimp will eat the stuff.

So then if there's a way we can identify and separate one from the other be it by morphology or species, it'd probably make the algae easy to deal with. Besides pictures and microscopes, I'm thinking testing the two and their response to high PO4 levels in a controlled environment is worth a shot. Looking at how to induce them and finding their equilibrium points wouldn't hurt either. This isn't something that I think will happen all at once, but it's at least worth keeping an eye out for related information.


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## dromaeosaurus (Oct 31, 2009)

I had a type of black spot algae all over my tank, which was definitely different than GSA. It mostly grew on the edge of plant leaves, mainly my anubias and Green Temple Narrow (Hygro Corombosa). I added more phosphates (with New York City tap water, which is high in phosphates), Flourish excel, nerite snails, and otos. I'm not sure which one of those did it, but now the black spot algae is gone.

I've had a bristlenose pleco in the tank for awhile, and he did not get rid of either type of algae. Although its a 75 gallon tank and he grew very quickly, so maybe he just had more than he could handle.


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