# Paintball Co2 Injection DIY Setup with Tons of Photos



## Jaggedfury

*Updated Re-write. 2/4/2011

I found a cheap way to use Paintball Co2 Tank for injecting Co2 into planted aquariums. Prices varies depending on different Brands of products that you purchase. I preferred to get parts brand new to avoid any problem down the line. This setup can cost from $30 dollars to $80 dollars + for a working unit. It all depends on what you want to do and add on to it. But it's easily obtainable with $30 dollars to rig up. *
*
In order to have this setup rig up and working. You will need the following items.*
*
- 3.5 oz to 24 oz Paintball Co2 Tank filled $25 and under.

- Paintball Co2 ASA On/Off Valve 2 Threads (Gauge, Needle Valve inputs) $10 - $60 depending on brand. 

- Paintball Co2 Gauge - $5 - $10 depending on brand.

- Needle Valves (You have several options to choose from) $10 - $20
* Watts A-41 LF 1/8'' x 1/4'' Compression (Homedepot or Lowes)
* Watts A-40 LF 1/8'' x 1/4'' Compression (Homedepot or Lowes)
* Swagelok Needle Valve 1/8'' x 1/8'' Compression (Ebay)
* My Needle Valve1/8'' x 1/4'' (Ask me if interested) (PM Me)

- Co2 Tubing (Part Number SVEB10 sold at Homedepot 10 feet is $2.14)

- Teflon Tape (Homedepot or Lowes/Craft Stores .50 cent - $1.00)

- Check Valve (Aquarium store $1)

- Bubble Counter Optional (Online store prices varies)

- Drop Checker Optional (Online store prices varies)

- A way to diffuse Co2 into your tank whether through a ceramic glass diffuser, hang on filter, canister filter, chop stick, power head, reactor. Prices varies from Free to whatever*

*Your parts will be similar to the photos below.

It's basically pretty simple. A basic guide.*

*- Make sure Paintball Co2 is Filled
- Teflon Tape Gauge Thread and screw it into any side of the ASA On/Off Valve. Use a wrench to further tighten it.
- Prepare your Needle Valve's both side threads with Telfon Tape. 
- Slide Co2 tubing through the Needle Valve's output Nut, then do the same to through the Compression Sleeve.
- Tighten Needle Valve's output Nut onto the Needle Valve. Use a wrench to further tighten it.
- Screw on Needle Valve into the ASA On/Off Valve. Use a wrench to further tighten it.
- Twist the Top Knob on the ASA On/Off Valve counter clockwise to open the Pin.
- Screw ASA On/Off Valve onto the Paintball Co2 Tank. Hand tighten only.
- Make sure your Needle Valve is Closed fully. 
- Twist the Top Knob on the ASA On/Off Valve clockwise to close the Pin.
- If Gauge reads 800-850 PSI, Co2 Gas has entered the ASA On/Off Valve Chamber.
- SLIGHTLY open the Needle Valve "T" Arm.
- Dump the entire Paintball Co2 Tank with the ASA On/Off Valve into a 10gallon fish tank or 5 gallon bucket. Check for leaks. Any bubble forms will result in leakage. Trace your installation steps again.
- If no leak is present, hook the end of the Co2 Tubing to desire way to diffusing the Co2 gas and you're good to go!*

*There are option parts such as Bubble Counter and Check Valves to be hooked up along the Co2 Tubing line. That should be common sense.

Basic Step for Installing Co2 Tubing onto Needle Valve. 










Overall Setup Installation once said and done.










Paintball Co2 Tank









Paintball Co2 On and Off Valve 2 threaded inputs









Paintball Co2 Gauge (Wrap thread with Teflon tape to prevent leaks)









Homedepot Needle Valve (Wrap therad with Teftlon tape to prevent leaks)








 
One the Needle Valve, one thread goes into the On and Off Valve, and the other one has a coupler that will crimp onto a Co2 tubing hose. Which will be the path of your Co2 line going straight to your tank. Make sure you have this Co2 tubing connected as well.










Once everything is thread tight, making sure the upper needle valve of the On and Off Valve is fully counter clockwise opened, attach it onto the Co2 tank of your choice. Closed the upper needle valve by turning it clockwise to release Co2 from the Paintball Tank. Make sure your Needle Valve is closed all the way. Your gauge should bounce straight up to 800PSI at most. 

Upper Valve Closed. 0 PSI









Upper Valve Opened. 800 PSI









Test the On and Off Valve for leaks by aiming the Paintball tank with everything attached up side down into a bucket of water. If there's any bubbles coming from the threaded slots, recheck your teflon tape and tightness.

Once there's no leak, everything should be a straight forward from there. Attach the end of the Co2 tubing to a Diffuser and your good to go. Adjust bubbles from 2bps to 4bps. 


A regular 24oz Paintball Co2 Tank at about 2bps will last a good 4-6 months. When refilling Co2 tank, just close your Needle Valve, Open up the upper valve on the On and Off Valve with will block off the Co2 Tank's outlet pressure. Then go ahead and twist off the On and Off Valve itself and just bring the Co2 Tank to your local Co2 Paintball store and have it refill. It only cost $4.00 to refill a 24oz Paintball tank.









Been using 3 of these units on 3 different tanks and have had no problems. You can also get away without using a Gauge, Save yourself the extra few bucks. Fully filled Co2 Tank is about 1.4 lbs. I used one without a Gauge and it works the same. Just keep the Hex bolt in the Gauge slot closed so that way a Gauge is not needed. All the parts can be bought locally at your local Paintball sport stores and Homedepot or Lowes. 

Hope that helps!

Additional informations for easy lookup.

The O rings are easily replacecable. It's like .58 cents per 3-6 O rings. Part number at Lowes is BrassCraft # 0533. The size is 1/4"ID x 3/8"OD x 1/16" Wall Thickness.

At 1bps on a 24 oz PB tank. You can get 5-6 months.
At 2bps on a 24 oz PB tank. You can get 4-5 months.
At 3bps on a 24 oz PB tank. You can get 2-3 months.
At 4-5 bps on a 24 oz PB tank, You can get 1.5-2 months
At 6-8 bps on a 24 oz PB tank, You're looking at 1 month before refill. 

With g33tar permissions, the Option #3 setup attached to a Super Diffuser/Atomic Diffuser in great working results!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KYQDDBjX5s
[/SIZE]*


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## ddtran46

Great writeup!!


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## Barristan

Just what I've been looking for!


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## TeamTeal

how long does it usually last and what size tank are you using it with?


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## Jaggedfury

It last a good 5-6 months before refill. This is referring to 20z Paintball co2 tanks. I have a two 20gallon long tanks, and a 30gallon tank. All 3 have their own Paintball Co2 tank, along with it's own On and Off valve and each individual co2 diffuser. With expection of my 30gallon being run on a 24oz Paintball co2 tank. 

So 3 in total. They last pretty long doesn't take up space and is fairly easy to rig up. Teflon tape is a must or else it will leak. Test the on and off valve once you have it all hooked up and tighten with a bucket of water before final use.


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## TeamTeal

do you leave the co2 on 24/7?
or do you turn it off everynight and back on the next day?


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## Jaggedfury

I leave it on 24/7. Needle valve is adjusted to 2bps. Been running like this for almost close to a year, no problems with tank or algae. I'm actually a shrimp and aquatic person, maybe the algae does exist but doesn't grow fast enough to where I can notice it before my shrimps chow down on it. I keep my light on 8 hours on a timing. I really haven't seen any major problem with keeping it on 24/7. I still get tons of lust plant growth. 

If I wanted to, I can always turn it off at night and turn it back on in the morning when my lights switches on. It's fairly easy to adjust, you'll be suprised.


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## TeamTeal

i think i will look into something like this, the ada co2 setup i have is not very efficient in terms of cost


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## hbosman

Very cool write up. I would have definitely tried this a few years ago. I started with a RedSea Paintball unit at considerably higher cost. I still use Paintball tanks because of lack of space but, use them with Victor Dual Stage regs now. Since it's used with a 46 Gallon Bowfront and T5 lighting, I only get 5 weeks per 20 OZ tank. I just get 2 Paintball Tanks at a time.


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## Jaggedfury

I believed I read somewhere a few months ago while pondering this idea to give it a try that you can also hook up a solenoid to it also, thus having it not on all the time. Just didnt' want to get into all that stuff. The setups I'm using has been working for almost a year, so if it isn't broken don't fix it.


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## hbosman

Jaggedfury said:


> I believed I read somewhere a few months ago while pondering this idea to give it a try that you can also hook up a solenoid to it also, thus having it not on all the time. Just didnt' want to get into all that stuff. The setups I'm using has been working for almost a year, so if it isn't broken don't fix it.


Yeah if you have good plant growth and minimal algae, no need to change your setup. A solenoid makes things easier if you need to crank up the CO2 for algae issues. You can crank it up during the lighting period with worrying about gasing your fish if, you turn it off when the lights are out. Increasing surface movement at night would make things even safer.

When your CO2 cylinders get closer to empty, do you notice any increase in bubble rate and or CO2 saturation?


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## Barristan

Anyone know if Walmart sells CO2 paintball tanks and valves?


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## Jaggedfury

hbosman said:


> Yeah if you have good plant growth and minimal algae, no need to change your setup. A solenoid makes things easier if you need to crank up the CO2 for algae issues. You can crank it up during the lighting period with worrying about gasing your fish if, you turn it off when the lights are out. Increasing surface movement at night would make things even safer.
> 
> When your CO2 cylinders get closer to empty, do you notice any increase in bubble rate and or CO2 saturation?


As far as the tank being completely empty, I haven't experienced that yet. When the gauge is a half way from 100 psi to 0 psi, I just go ahead and refill. I haven't noticed any increase in bubble rate or Co2 Saturation. It's always been constant with me. I could let it run all the way to empty and see what happens, but that's in about 5-6 months lol.



Barristan said:


> Anyone know if Walmart sells CO2 paintball tanks and valves?


When looking for Co2 tank before I start injecting Co2 into my tanks, I did a few looking around and Wal-mart only carries 16oz Paintball Co2 Tank. 100% sure they don't carry and vavles for it.


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## Jaggedfury

I've been getting alot of messages about certain type of Valves to use. If you find something that resemble this type of On and Off Valve, it will work. I wouldn't use any of the other Mini On and Off Valves that are on ebay. The On and Off Valve should be about 4 inches long. This is another one of my setup, but I decided not to use a gauge on it. So it's just capped off. 


































Hope that helps alot better.


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## ddtran46

I just went to the paintball shop you told me about....the on/off adpapter is 44.99 new. They didn't a used one.


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## Jaggedfury

You have to check from time to time. Try Sinister Sports Paintball in Roseville. This store is small, but it mainly deals with paintball sport related items. That's where I got my Black CP used On and Off Valve for dirt cheap. 

Bigboytoys in Elk Grove carries Half Paintball related sports and the rest are Nitro/Electric RC Cars. 

You can always call Sinister Sports and ask if they got any used ON and Off Valves. I only mentioned the Paintball store in Elk Grove because I"m closer to there and I only go there to refill my Co2.

Was that the cheapest price for a new On and Off Valve?


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## ddtran46

I didn't see any other on/off valves. So I am guessing the cheapest one is the 45 dollar one..



Jaggedfury said:


> You have to check from time to time. Try Sinister Sports Paintball in Roseville. This store is small, but it mainly deals with paintball sport related items. That's where I got my Black CP used On and Off Valve for dirt cheap.
> 
> Bigboytoys in Elk Grove carries Half Paintball related sports and the rest are Nitro/Electric RC Cars.
> 
> You can always call Sinister Sports and ask if they got any used ON and Off Valves. I only mentioned the Paintball store in Elk Grove because I"m closer to there and I only go there to refill my Co2.
> 
> Was that the cheapest price for a new On and Off Valve?


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## Jaggedfury

I've PM'ed you some links for ones that I know will work and is cheap. Check it out.


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## Hadouken441

Alright guys Im a HUGE paintballer. In fact thats my first hobby haha. You guys want super cheap On/off ASA's check out PBnation.com I got my Custom Products ASA just like that black one up there for 8 SHIPPED.

And I put this thing up today. Literally took me like 10 minutes. Its extremelly easy. 

So to help out my fellow planters for sure check out PBNATION.com. Then scroll to the bottom for the Buy/sell/trade and then click on Misc. Paintball equip. Then search for ASA using the search forum. Happy Planting!


Also check out ANSgear.com They have super cheap decent on/off asa's for like 15 shipped.


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## Jaggedfury

Awesome, looks like that works great.

Also this guy on ebay will sell you one too. $5.00 + $5.99 shipping.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...Category=47237&_trkparms=algo=LVI&its=I&otn=2

That will work perfectly fine also. For those people who loves ebay bidding.


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## dtilley

Very interesting! I didn't know you could get away with this without a regulator. I play paintball competitively and have a bunch of extra parts laying around. I will see if I have any extra on/off valves that I could use


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## Hadouken441

^^ haha sick what Division do you play? And what you shootin man?


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## dtilley

*Re: Paintball Co2 Injection DIY Setup*



> ^^ haha sick what Division do you play? And what you shootin man?


I sent you a message as I don't want to hijack the thread

Sent from my DROID2 using Tapatalk


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## OiZO

This is a pretty awesome build. It makes it quite cheap to setup. I found some gauges on ebay for super cheap and the link above makes it only $10 for an asa. That puts the whole build around $40-$45 for a co2 system.


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## msnikkistar

Where the heck is Sinister at in Roseville? I google and I cant find anything.


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## Jaggedfury

Not sure where in Roseville you're located at. But they changed their name recently. It's now called "Predator Paintball Reloaded"

4626 Watt Ave
North Highlands, CA 95660

It's a little small shop, it's about 2 blocks from Golden Corral Restraunt that opened up recently opened up near there. Keep in mind, it's a small shop so look for tiny buildings. Next door is a donut shop if I remembered correctly. Haven't been there for about 6 months.


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## llamabob

Having a hell of a time finding a double threaded input valve. All i can find on ebay are the mini's. Anyone seen some anywhere?

Edit: Nm, found the black one you also had for $30 on Ebay.


Quick question, every post I find on different forums say these paintball tanks only last 3-4 weeks. Have you ever had one last 5-6 months?


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## OiZO

Is the one linked above not proper or something it was only like $5 bucks + shipping. I am planning on doing this build right now and i want to make sure i get all the proper parts at the lowest price.


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## spaeth05

I bought the one from the link above on a whim because it was so cheap I wanted to try it out. What I was sent looks nothing like what is in the auction picture...but it does have 2 threaded inputs (also has a curious looking piece that I think is supposed to be a handle). The only problem is that the threaded inputs are not directly across from each other. I haven't gathered the other parts yet to know if this will be a problem. I'll try posting a pick of what I got. I must say, it's a decent looking chunk of metal for $5, just not sure if it will work for what we want it to lol....


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## spaeth05

Here is a pic of what I received. I shot it at an angle so you could see both threaded inputs:


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## OiZO

hmm. Its acutally kinda cool looking but not anything like the picture. I am thinking it shouldn't matter about the two threaded outputs so close together seeing as they are still 90degree's from each other.

keep me posted on if it works or not.


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## spaeth05

I will definitely keep you posted...unfortunately it's going to be a while as I'm headed out of town for a week so this DIY project will have to re-commence then!

FYI, I also ordered the gauge from that same company on eBay. I haven't received it yet but I'll also let you know how that looks. Was dirt cheap as well!


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## OiZO

awesome. I think this could be a good system if everything works out .


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## OiZO

actually does anyone know if something like this would work if you added the home-depot needle valve? http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-PAINTBALL-4...ultDomain_0&hash=item27af8e620a#ht_2333wt_912


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## Jaggedfury

llamabob said:


> Having a hell of a time finding a double threaded input valve. All i can find on ebay are the mini's. Anyone seen some anywhere?
> 
> Edit: Nm, found the black one you also had for $30 on Ebay.
> 
> 
> Quick question, every post I find on different forums say these paintball tanks only last 3-4 weeks. Have you ever had one last 5-6 months?


It depends... some people are using for high tech heavy planted tanks that need lots of co2 for their plants. I'm only using 2 bubbles per second, 2 of my tanks still reads above 800psi. Been running for a few weeks now. One of them is just barely hitting the 800psi mark. All were refill at the same time.

Keep in mind if your going to have a bigger tank, I used it on 20gallon long tanks, over 55gallon +. You're going to use more co2 if you have plants that need high co2.

I really do get 5-6 months per tank.


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## Jaggedfury

spaeth05, that piece you bought from ebay should work. As long as the paintball co2 tank will screw in tightly all the way. If that handle in any way prevents the paintball co2 tank to not screw in tightly, it won't work. That's the only difference I noticed. Dremel it off if it's a last resort.

I take no responsibilities for the pictures that ebay sellers post and sell. 

Let me know how it goes.

OiZo, I not sure if that link you send will work. It might, I just haven't had one that has a bottom male thread. Often times the paintball co2 tank already comes with a pressure lock male thread installed already with a burst valve.


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## llamabob

Jaggedfury said:


> It depends... some people are using for high tech heavy planted tanks that need lots of co2 for their plants. I'm only using 2 bubbles per second, 2 of my tanks still reads above 800psi. Been running for a few weeks now. One of them is just barely hitting the 800psi mark. All were refill at the same time.
> 
> Keep in mind if your going to have a bigger tank, I used it on 20gallon long tanks, over 55gallon +. You're going to use more co2 if you have plants that need high co2.
> 
> I really do get 5-6 months per tank.


Nice, think ill give this a try. It will be on a 20g high heavily planted. Ill post back in a few days with how it turned out!


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## spaeth05

Jaggedfury said:


> spaeth05, that piece you bought from ebay should work. As long as the paintball co2 tank will screw in tightly all the way. If that handle in any way prevents the paintball co2 tank to not screw in tightly, it won't work. That's the only difference I noticed. Dremel it off if it's a last resort.
> 
> I take no responsibilities for the pictures that ebay sellers post and sell.
> 
> Let me know how it goes.


I'm definitely not holding you responsible for the ebay seller!! I'm psyched to have a low cost option to try out and sincerely appreciate the knowledge you shared. I can't wait to get it all put together!!!


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## NickS

If I understand this right, basically all you need is an on/off valve with two outputs? One for a gauge (if wanted) and one for the needle valve. That's it, right?


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## ddtran46

nickstaroba said:


> If I understand this right, basically all you need is an on/off valve with two outputs? One for a gauge (if wanted) and one for the needle valve. That's it, right?


That is correct


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## msnikkistar

Just so some of you know, I found a 3 threaded ASA on ebay that is selling for about 14 shipped of you submit an offer. I found out that they will take 8 instead of the 10 they are selling for.

It comes with 2 plugs in case you don't use them all, but has enough fitting holes for the needle valve and the gauge. 

PM me if you would like the link to it.


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## llamabob

One more question, the Home Depot needle valves are typically rated for 80-100psi. Have you not had any problems opening your on/off all the way and pushing the gauge to 800psi? I read in another place you should only open the on/off until you see bubbles, stop, then adjust the needle valve.


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## msnikkistar

I think it would be safer to get a needle valve that has a higher PSI rating. There are plenty of deals on ebay for some that have up to 3000psi.  Just my thought anyways.


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## llamabob

msnikkistar said:


> I think it would be safer to get a needle valve that has a higher PSI rating. There are plenty of deals on ebay for some that have up to 3000psi.  Just my thought anyways.


Touche!


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## llamabob

Couple of dumb noob questions, did you get your co2 hosing at home depot or paintball :thumbsdowshop? What size and will the hose fit a glass diffuser? Did your needle valve come with the hose coupler? And where do you get that blue connector that was on the end of your black hosing? Sorry never set co2 up before so not familiar with all of the parts.


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## llamabob

Oh and is a check valve necessary?


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## koxkokas

:icon_bigghy 
that is very nice setup, i will do it for my 55 g tank (i have all the parts, i used to play paintball years back) i wanted to buy a co2 set but it is just to expensive. 
i do have a question, i read that you keep shrimps, do you ad any salt to the water?
i do not know if i should add any to may shrimp tank.
thank you.


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## Jaggedfury

llamabob said:


> Couple of dumb noob questions, did you get your co2 hosing at home depot or paintball :thumbsdowshop? What size and will the hose fit a glass diffuser? Did your needle valve come with the hose coupler? And where do you get that blue connector that was on the end of your black hosing? Sorry never set co2 up before so not familiar with all of the parts.


I did buy the co2 hose from Homedepot. The needle valve and the co2 hosing is underneath each other in the same area. I'm not 100% what size I bought it at, I had to ask a worker there to see what Co2 hose size will fit the Needle valve output hose coupler. The hose coupler comes in the needle valve kit as "One Unit"

The blue connector, is from a twist valve for aquariums that I had laying around. It's meant to be used to regular air pump oxygen going into a tank. I broke off a small piece of it, so it will be able to plug into the black co2 hose. That way I can hook up my other side of the hose to the diffuser. It's basically a simple disconnect way for me to refill the co2 tank. I believed the correct term is called a "Tee Connector" They're fairly cheap and all fish shops should have it. It's just a straight through pipe that lets you continue to connect 2 hose points to one. I just use it as a easy hose disconnect. Here's a link to what I"m talking about, they come in several colors and sizes. 

http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18283/si1380212/cl0/tomairlinestraightconnect4pk

All I have to do is disconnect my diffuser hose leading up to where that 
blue plug is at, then just close the on and off valve and twist off the on and off valve so the co2 tank can be transfer for refilling. 

A check valve is optional to use, I don't use it on mines. Tank water doesn't backtrack that far back to the co2 tank.



koxkokas said:


> :icon_bigghy
> that is very nice setup, i will do it for my 55 g tank (i have all the parts, i used to play paintball years back) i wanted to buy a co2 set but it is just to expensive.
> i do have a question, i read that you keep shrimps, do you ad any salt to the water?
> i do not know if i should add any to may shrimp tank.
> thank you.


I do have several shrimps tanks with each tank having it's own paintball co2 tank. No, I do not add salt to my tank. There's no need to add salt into your tank.


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## CalebD77

*needle valve problem*

Hi, I went down and bought a 20oz paintball tank and an on/off valve from Predator paintball here in Sacramento. I got the needle valve from Home Depot and put it all together. It seems that no matter how tight I close the needle valve when i turn on the on/off valve i get CO2 coming out of needle valve. i cant seem to get it to shut off. Have that problem?


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## Jaggedfury

Actually, No. I don't have that problem nor have I experienced it. I could see it happening though. If I was to re-assemble mines and put it back together, I'm 100% certain I won't occur the problem your experiencing. Here are some things to check from what I can picture how this is happening.

Telfton tape MUST be use in 4 areas.
1. Teflon the thread on the needle valve that goes directly into the On/Off Valve.
2. Teflon the thread on the output thread coupler of where the co2 hosing goes through.
3. Teflon the thread on which the needle valve adjustment knob thread is at.
4. (Optional) Teflon the Gauge thread that goes directly into the On/Off Valve thread. If not used, I still suggest putting a little bit of Teflon tape on the "Hex" cap off screw and cap off that thread.

If Teflon tape are used in the above mentioned, I could also seeing one possible fault. Your co2 hose is not the correct hose to be used on that needle valve coupler output. I don't know from the top of my head, but the correct size co2 hose will have plently of room for you to stick a standard size aquarium air line hose into it snug and tight. You can actually tell where it's leaking once you have it all fitted and take the whole unit and drop it in bucket of water or fish tank. If yours is not leaking at all, until you turn it on, make sure your at least giving out some co2 before putting in water that way you'll see where it's leaking. 

The last thing I could see happening, is that the needle valve is a defective. Being as it's a last thought, it could happened. It could be caused by over tightening/loosening too far out of it's spec. 

Let me know how it goes. 

Shoot me a picture of the needle valve you've purchased.


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## CalebD77

Ok, I have teflon tape on all connections. I didnt use a gauge but I think I will get one.
I didnt have CO2 tubing connected to the valve. I tried using silicon tubing just now but when i turned on the on/off valve it blew the tubing off, lol. I have the needle valve off as tight as I could get it too. May have bad valve.


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## CalebD77

I was online looking for needle valves just now and came across this set up. Good price. What do you think?
http://www.championlighting.com/product.php?productid=17305&cat=1076&page=1
Its for regular CO2 tanks though.


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## Jaggedfury

"It blew off the tubing" Only way for your co2 tubing to blow off is because I believed this problem is caused by your co2 tubing size. Whether it's too big or too small, also depends on your needle valve.

I'd like to see your needle valve.

Your co2 hose should go into the co2 output coupler then it will need to be push into a pin. That pin should fit snug and tight onto your co2 hose. Once that's in, then you can go ahead and teflon the threaded part and screw on the coupler. Make sure you use a wrench to screw everything tight.

I do hope your using the right needle valve that does have a pin inside the coupler side of the co2 output.


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## Jaggedfury

CalebD77 said:


> I was online looking for needle valves just now and came across this set up. Good price. What do you think?
> http://www.championlighting.com/product.php?productid=17305&cat=1076&page=1
> Its for regular CO2 tanks though.


I haven't use that before. I'm sure it would be great but I'm the wront person to ask about those unit. I haven't had any experiences with it.


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## CalebD77

I think maybe the needle valve is the wrong one. Even though it looks like the one in your post. How can I tell if it has a pin?


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## Jaggedfury

The pin is inside the co2 coupler thead. It's a small piece that looks like a bullet. You would want to slide your co2 tubing through the pin til it hit it's stop mark. I think your using the wrong needle valve, or that pin is not there. That pin is a must. Once you have that pin slide all the through your co2 tubing to where it stop, use a wrench and tightening that coupler all the way. It will push on that pin and therefore prevent it from leaking.


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## CalebD77

Here is picture of it. It does have the pin so I think the tubing has to be problem.


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## h2kgolden

I have yet to go down to the local Home Depot but I assume this: http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053 is what I'm looking for?

It says the max psi is 400, which is a bit scary. Do you recall if they had higher rated needle valves where you're at, or did you not bother to look because you're not having issues with previous projects? Or did you get the 400 psi one and it's working fine for you?

Thanks for the write up, got most of it ordered from eBay already!


----------



## Jaggedfury

That's the same one I'm using. Check your co2 hose size, I can't imagine the co2 hose being too big. Cause there's no way it could be too small.

I believed your assembly of the co2 hose is wrong.

You have to twist off that coupler thread. Then slide your co2 hose into it, and then plug in the pin from the other side. The pin is a bit rounded off so once you have your co2 sliding in, it won't come off. No way can it come off. Once you have that assemble, then put then use teflon tape.

What I assume you were doing is that you didn't loosen that coupler thread. You just stuck the co2 directly onto that pin sticking out. As a result, when you open your co2 valve, it then put pushes the co2 hose off. It's a assembly error. Here's photos of the correct way. I jus took apart mines to show you.

Take that coupler apart, slide co2 hose pass through the coupler ring.
Plug it snug and tight all the way to where it prevents you from pushing it too far back.








Assembly the tubing onto the thread, teflon tape that thread, as photo shown.








Slide coupler ring to teflon threaded thread, Then just tighten it with a wrench.









Let me know what the problem was. Was it assembly? So I can let other people know if this problem occurs in the future.

Hope that helps.


----------



## Jaggedfury

h2kgolden said:


> I have yet to go down to the local Home Depot but I assume this: http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053 is what I'm looking for?
> 
> It says the max psi is 400, which is a bit scary. Do you recall if they had higher rated needle valves where you're at, or did you not bother to look because you're not having issues with previous projects? Or did you get the 400 psi one and it's working fine for you?
> 
> Thanks for the write up, got most of it ordered from eBay already!


I did look for a good while why piecing this together. This is probably the only working needle valve you can get that will allow you to hook up a co2 hose to it. As far as leakage, and psi goes. No leaks, psi not too wory about it. If your too worry about it, take the entire needle valve and disassemble it. Look carefully at each part and how it's going to be connected to the threaded portion. I would not worry about it. As long as you tighten the whole unit down with a wrench.


----------



## CalebD77

Hmmm, I dont understand why this not working lol. It did it just like you showed but it still not working. Got me stumped lmao


----------



## Jaggedfury

If you followed my picture directly, and still have this problem. I'm stumped too. Maybe it's Defective? Return it and get it replace.


----------



## CalebD77

yea I think I will return it, see if that solves problem.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Awesome. Get back to me and let me know if it is a defective needle valve or not.


----------



## Barristan

Would this one work?

http://cgi.ebay.com/1-2-6000-PSI-31...092?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3360e81afc

Hopefully this on/off will work, because I just bought it.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Kapp-Paintball-...515?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aa4472793


----------



## Jaggedfury

Hey there,

The first link on/off would not work. Being as it uses a 1/2'' size. The size on the paintball on and off valve for the needle vavle and gauge is actually 1/8'' threaded.

The second one would work fine.


----------



## CalebD77

The second one looks like mine. Its a CP .

Well I think the new needle valve is gonna work. I got it together and no leak whenn i turn the on/off valve on as long as I only open it just a little.
Now I need a bubble counter and diffusor. What you using?


----------



## Jaggedfury

I'm using a Ceramic Diffuser ones like ADA style. Not ADA brand but it works the same way. Just not paying for the ADA price. Mines have a bubble counter built into the diffuser. Photo of mines.


----------



## Sundance2010

Cool, I was about to invest $200 plus but think this will do just fine. I'm new, just setting up my first planted aquarium (55G). How do you monitor the Co2 level in the water? Also I'm in the bay area (Suisun City). What PB store in Sac. do you recommend?

Thx.


----------



## Sundance2010

CalebD77 said:


> I think maybe the needle valve is the wrong one. Even though it looks like the one in your post. How can I tell if it has a pin?


You must have a defective/damaged or dirty needle valve. You can only close it so tight and if it's still allowing flow there is something wrong. If you can see the needle and seat make sure there is no damage or dirt in that area. Even the smallest scratch or bit of dirt on the seat or needle will allow Co2 to flow no matter how tight you close it. If you can't tell or it's damaged i would take it back and exchange it for a new one.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Not monitor co2 level at all. Not too worry about injection level. I'm a shrimp keeper so I had these paintball co2 units running for almost a year. I have not had one shrimp kick the bucket sort of say. My plants don't need alot of co2, and mininum light is fine. I don't shut the needle valve off at all also, it just runs 24/7. My lighting however does shut off on a timer every 8 hours. If by any chance, co2 level is too high, all the shrimps would of been gone months ago.. lol.

Shrimps are breeding like crazy. So I take it, it's fine. I do however test my water on a weekly basis of each tanks to see if the co2 alter my pH levels.

PH: 6.1 - 6.4
GH: 3-5 
KH: 0-1 
Temprature: 62 - 74 degrees (Varies night and day)
Ammonia, NO2, NO3: around 0

A few people went to Prediator Paintball Reloaded up by Watt ave. That's where I got my used CP on/off valve at. They tend to carry used parts, which is awesome. Unless you want the new part. I only go to bigboystoyz in elk grove to refill my co2 tank. They have a pretty nice collection of products, but really expensive. I'm not any way into paintball sport so I don't know much regarding that sport or any other stores out there. Try Prediator Paintball Reloaded.


----------



## CalebD77

Yea, thats where I went. I got a CP on/off valve for $20 used. Think Ill go back and get a gauge.


----------



## llamabob

Made mine today. Used the same needle valve as OP and a 20oz paintball tank. Gauge didn't come in mail so I made mine without it. What I did was just open the on/off until I heard air, then slowly opened the needle valve.

At first I really didn't think I could get the flow down but you sure can with fine tweaking. I got it to stay at a steady 1 bubble a second in a test cup of water for an extended period of time, then tweaked it to 2-3 bubbles. Seemed to stay steady.

I did have leaks where I used the plugs, even with teflon tape, so Im gonna take it to work and see what I can use to tighten/seal it.

Neat project overall, thanks OP.


----------



## SHIKARI

I just recieved my on/off in the mail today now to get diffusers bubblecounter and tubing and needlewalve.
LLamabob have you tried the pipe thread compound rated for gas pipes if it works for gas lines,don't see why it wont work for co2.


----------



## Jaggedfury

llamabob said:


> Made mine today. Used the same needle valve as OP and a 20oz paintball tank. Gauge didn't come in mail so I made mine without it. What I did was just open the on/off until I heard air, then slowly opened the needle valve.
> 
> At first I really didn't think I could get the flow down but you sure can with fine tweaking. I got it to stay at a steady 1 bubble a second in a test cup of water for an extended period of time, then tweaked it to 2-3 bubbles. Seemed to stay steady.
> 
> I did have leaks where I used the plugs, even with teflon tape, so Im gonna take it to work and see what I can use to tighten/seal it.
> 
> Neat project overall, thanks OP.


Nice to hear it works and your able to tweak it as far as 1bps. As far as the leak, I would suggest over using the teflon tape. I would at least go around 10 times with the teflon tape. And again, make sure you use a wrench and super tighten it down. There's plumbing glue that you can use, it's comes in blue,red,white brush on liquid. Takes about 4 hours to cure. Try that method, if that fails there's this plastic glue like silicon for automotive that will definitely work, I would try this last due to the fact that the glue do become " plastic " once it harden within 48 hours. Message me and I'll give you the brand name for it. It's about $4.98 at Pepboys, Autozone, Kragen.


----------



## OiZO

Sundance2010 said:


> You must have a defective/damaged or dirty needle valve. You can only close it so tight and if it's still allowing flow there is something wrong. If you can see the needle and seat make sure there is no damage or dirt in that area. Even the smallest scratch or bit of dirt on the seat or needle will allow Co2 to flow no matter how tight you close it. If you can't tell or it's damaged i would take it back and exchange it for a new one.


I am on my 2nd needle valve from home depot and even when closed it will not stop co2 from coming out. Any ideas besides an expensive needle valve?


----------



## llamabob

Jaggedfury said:


> Nice to hear it works and your able to tweak it as far as 1bps. As far as the leak, I would suggest over using the teflon tape. I would at least go around 10 times with the teflon tape. And again, make sure you use a wrench and super tighten it down. There's plumbing glue that you can use, it's comes in blue,red,white brush on liquid. Takes about 4 hours to cure. Try that method, if that fails there's this plastic glue like silicon for automotive that will definitely work, I would try this last due to the fact that the glue do become " plastic " once it harden within 48 hours. Message me and I'll give you the brand name for it. It's about $4.98 at Pepboys, Autozone, Kragen.


Pretty sure I catch your drift on the brand, I have some laying around Ill try that tomorrow after I try multiple wraps of tape. My needle valve is fine/tight, it's just those little plugs that come with the on/off to block unused inlets that are leaking.

Ill update tomorrow.


----------



## llamabob

OiZO said:


> I am on my 2nd needle valve from home depot and even when closed it will not stop co2 from coming out. Any ideas besides an expensive needle valve?


Im using the same needle valve as the OP and mine if working properly, if I close it, nothing comes out. Im stumped as to what your problem could be, as the chances of 2 defective needles is unlikely.

My only suggestion would be to just slightly turn your on/off until you hear gas release, then stop. Tweak it to get the flow as low as possible, then fine tweak with your needle. It acts as a sort of "ghetto" regulator, but it's tricky because if your on/off is opened too much or your needle closed too much, head pressure will build on the needle valve anyway.


----------



## Jaggedfury

OiZO said:


> I am on my 2nd needle valve from home depot and even when closed it will not stop co2 from coming out. Any ideas besides an expensive needle valve?


So when you twist on your On/Off valve onto the co2 paintball tank itself, without Turning anything on. Leaving the upper valve on the On/Off Valve open, Is your co2 paintball tank leaking co2? If it leaks the moment you put on your On/Off Valve onto the co2 paintball tank, it's your On/Off valve.

If it doesn't show any sign of leakage, go ahead and close the upper valve on the On/Off valve, and that should push down on a internal pin to open the co2 paintball pin thus releasing around 800psi into the On/Off valve chamber. If it show signs of leakage then, find out which point it's leaking at. If it leaks at this moment, your either leaking at the upper valve of the on/off valve itself or the needle valve thread hole. If there's no leakage continue.

By adjusting to open your needle valve slightly just a bit, dump the top portion of the On/Off valve into a bucket of water and it will show you where it leak. Bubbles should be going upwards as you aim the on/off valve atttached to the co2 paintball tank unside down into a bucket of water.

Are you sure your leaking at the needle valve? If so, I'm never had this problem before and I'm clueless also to how this is happening. It's pretty much a simple thing to rig up. 

By no means should you turn the needle valve 1 full turn CLOCKWISE or COUNTERCLOCK WISE, If by most, your only turning it 1/4'' or less to adjust. 
Below is a photo of my on and off valve, I just took it off so I can label the places where it can leak. 










If leak at number..
1. Your Needle valve pin adjuster ball inside is messed up
2. Your Needle valve pin adjuster ball inside is messed up
3. Your Hose is too small or not properly seated right, also check for tightness on thread
4. Teflon tape not used, thread not tighten all the way
5. Teflon tape not used, thread not tighten all the way
6. Teflon tape not used, thread not tighten all the way
7. Co2 Paintball tank rubber seal is bad, Replace rubber steal. Screw On/Off valve all the way
8. Telfon tape not used, thread not tighten all the way (if gauge not used, telfon tape the hex screw and cap it off)
9. Upper valve close/open faulty. Consult your local paintball store and have it replace. $5 at most. 

That pretty much sums it up. 

Keep me posted to what happens


----------



## OiZO

That is my setup. I tested for leaks and found none. The issue is that co2 comes out of the hose even when the needle valve is in the off position.

Could it just be 2 faulty needle valves?


----------



## Jaggedfury

Where is it coming out of? Look at my picture above yours, every point where it can leak are labeled. Where exactly is it leaking from, which number?

Base on your picture, after examining it, I can only say that it looks like it's assembled right. Might be a faulty needle valve again? Go ahead and let me know what number it's leaking from.


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## jeffvmd

maybe the needle valve is the 150 psi rating that's why it just leaks?


----------



## Jaggedfury

I would not think that's the problem. They're rated at 400 psi. According to the spec from homedepot.com. http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

Event though 400 psi is max, it still works very well without a problem on 3 setups I have. It seems to be all weird. I can bet money that If I were to purchase one from homedpot, and transfer it over to my co2 paintball tank that it will work perfectly. Just seems all weird to me. Awaiting more details from OiZO.


----------



## llamabob

Jaggedfury said:


> I would not think that's the problem. They're rated at 400 psi. According to the spec from homedepot.com. http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053
> 
> Event though 400 psi is max, it still works very well without a problem on 3 setups I have. It seems to be all weird. I can bet money that If I were to purchase one from homedpot, and transfer it over to my co2 paintball tank that it will work perfectly. Just seems all weird to me. Awaiting more details from OiZO.


There were 2 when I got mine, one is infact rated at 150 and one at 400. It would be bitter sweet if he has the 150 that way we know the problem and he can get the correct one. If he has the 400, I'm stumped, as by his description it sounds like the needle is allowing air through the hose.

One thought too, my nut on the needle part was a bit loose so I tightened mine a bit with a wrench, worth a try? 

We'll have to wait to hear back from him.


----------



## Jaggedfury

I'll stop by Homedepot and check it out on my way home from work since it's on the way, I haven't been there for a few months. If I remembered correctly there is only one needle valve that I could see working in the co2 paintball tank base on the thread size. But I will double check to see if there's any more.


----------



## llamabob

You're right my mistake, I was looking at the 1/4 x 1/4 model, there is only one shaped like the one we all used, so he must indeed have the 400 rated one. Sorry.


----------



## calfish64

That is a cool setup! 

My experience with a similar setup like this is that, as you found out, the needle valve becomes the most important component because the working pressure is in the 800psi range. A typical CO2 setup with regulator has working pressure in the 5-20psi range.

Another thing to consider is that the pressure also changes with temperature so the number can be from 700psi to almost 1000psi. This will also affect the flow rate of CO2.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Yepp, My memories suit me right. I just got back from Homedepot. From what I research and noted down, they only have 2 needle valve that looks close to the ones I'm using. 

The model number A-42 is 1/4inch by 1/4inch and that won't work because it's 1/4inch on the other side. That max pressure is 80psi.

The model number A-140 is 3/8inch and that wont' work either. 

There's no possible way that you can buy a 150psi needle valve that looks exactly like the one I'm using, it has to be 400psi.


----------



## llamabob

Got mine up and running. Triple wrapping the teflon tape worked great! No leaks as of now.


----------



## OiZO

i have tested mine a few more times and i think it must be the needle valve. The co2 comes out of the airline tubing. I think it must just be a faulty needle valve. On the packaging i cant find anything about what psi it can handle. I am going to take it back and get the 90 degree needle valve tomorrow and i will report back if its working. Thanks all for the help so far.


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## Jaggedfury

Looks awesome. I would suggest using a breakoff point at the end of that co2 hose, that way you can close your needle valve, and shut off the upper valve ontop of the On/Off Valve, and twist off the On/Off Valve for easy refilling. Just makes it easier so you don't have to remove the co2 hose as a complete one unit.

I used the Tee connector from this kit, it pops out fairly easy and the co2 hose will plug into it snugged. No leak there also.










Just a suggestion for easy disconnect of the On/Off Valve while you take only the Paintball Co2 tank for refilling.


----------



## msnikkistar

Got 2 of these bad boys running on both tanks now, except I have 3000PSI ranked needle valves on them. 

P.S. I have an extra valve is someone would like it. I have a swagelok 3000PSI B-ORM2


----------



## OiZO

msnikkistar said:


> Got 2 of these bad boys running on both tanks now, except I have 3000PSI ranked needle valves on them.
> 
> P.S. I have an extra valve is someone would like it. I have a swagelok 3000PSI B-ORM2


arent those spendy


----------



## msnikkistar

I found a deal on ebay for 2 for 18 shipped. =P


----------



## voyetra8

msnikkistar said:


> Got 2 of these bad boys running on both tanks now, except I have 3000PSI ranked needle valves on them.
> 
> P.S. I have an extra valve is someone would like it. I have a swagelok 3000PSI B-ORM2


I'd love to take this off your hands if you still have it! The only thing that's kept me from doing this DIY was that I wanted to find an appropriately rated needle valve. 

Sending you a PM now.


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## CalebD77

When I got my needle valve from Home Depot I didnt find any CO2 tubing. Where you get yours?


----------



## llamabob

CalebD77 said:


> When I got my needle valve from Home Depot I didnt find any CO2 tubing. Where you get yours?


I just grabbed the vinyl tubing because I was in a hurry and it was cheap, I can replace later. They also have polyetheleyne(sp?) which is suppose to have a better permability rating. I didn't see any specific co2 tubing at my Home Depot/Lowes. If you're in a hurry, use one of those then order the co2 tubing from the internet.


----------



## llamabob

Jaggedfury said:


> Looks awesome. I would suggest using a breakoff point at the end of that co2 hose, that way you can close your needle valve, and shut off the upper valve ontop of the On/Off Valve, and twist off the On/Off Valve for easy refilling. Just makes it easier so you don't have to remove the co2 hose as a complete one unit.
> 
> I used the Tee connector from this kit, it pops out fairly easy and the co2 hose will plug into it snugged. No leak there also.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just a suggestion for easy disconnect of the On/Off Valve while you take only the Paintball Co2 tank for refilling.


Yup! I used your advice you gave earlier, I had similar connectors left over from old air stones, I got one on the end of that short hose.

Just for reference for others considering this project, I was a bit nervous going to work and letting it run for an extended period of time unsupervised. I set the flow before going to work, came home 12 hours later and it was still the same!

This is working really great, if the needle valve scares you, try the one msnikkistar found.


----------



## SHIKARI

I need to get a diffuser and bubble counter for my 75g with this setup,what do you all recomend?I would like to keep it low cost wise if possible.
Thanks


----------



## llamabob

SHIKARI said:


> I need to get a diffuser and bubble counter for my 75g with this setup,what do you all recomend?I would like to keep it low cost wise if possible.
> Thanks


Ebay sweat shop glass diffusers are good and cheap.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Seriously, I don't worry about anything as far as the paintball co2 setup. Turn it on and leave. I think i removed, the On/Off valve at least 3 times to take photos and show here. it's been running for quite a while and still reads a little above 800psi. My guess is that it will hit somewhere between 5-6 months at least. It will keep it's steady pressure til at least when it's less than 50 psi, I would guess. 

As far as the tubing goes, it's okay to pretend to not know what your looking for when shopping around. But do know the terms of the items so the workers there can actually direct you to the right section for the item itself. I'm sure if you ask a employee there, they'll suggest a co2 tubing size that will only fit in that needle valve coupler without any leakage if you tighten it all the way.

I was there 2 days ago and there seem to be numerous types of air line hoses, some thinner than standard aquarium hoses, and a few that is slightly bigger and then there's the ones where you use for ice makers machines.

As long as this helps one person, it was well worth sharing.

DIY yeast just isn't my thing. Although I'm very familiar with it and how to rig up numerous 2 liters bottles, just the hassle of mixing the yeast and sugar is a pain after so many times. Not to mention temperature being a major problem to the fermentation of the yeast culture. Having a DIY yeast bottle soaked in a 5 gallon bucket full of water with a additional heater submersed in it just took too many space and just wasn't feeling it.


----------



## [email protected]

Great post and series. 
As someone who has watched the planted tank discussions on and off for over fifteen years I have to say that sometimes older ideas cycle back around and are successful. Sometimes they are just re-cycled. Osmocote comes to mind. Big box store water grade needle valves is another. 

Old UseNet threads are full of details from grad students who played with, tested, talked about, and accurately documented a lot of the issues we still chat about today. They're just harder to search and read then organized HTML pages. 

The online planted tank community went through the big box needle valve trials many years ago. 
There are reasons people are paying $100 plus for regulators and needle valves. One is safety. At 800 psi if your $5.00 needle valve cap lets go, you have a small missile near your glass tank. 

A second issue is that a tiny bit of moisture and CO2 under pressure makes an acidic combination that will eat at the cheap needle valve. One day the valve just stops being a needle valve, the paintball tank is empty, and the tank water suddenly stinks of dead fish. The people refilling paint ball tanks might not have been taught by certified gas handlers. 

As long as people are aware of the dangers, this thread is a great way for people to get into pressurized CO2. PLEASE, if you go this route, start saving money for an standard industrial regulator and good quality needle valve.


----------



## Jaggedfury

[email protected] said:


> Great post and series.
> As someone who has watched the planted tank discussions on and off for over fifteen years I have to say that sometimes older ideas cycle back around and are successful. Sometimes they are just re-cycled. Osmocote comes to mind. Big box store water grade needle valves is another.
> 
> Old UseNet threads are full of details from grad students who played with, tested, talked about, and accurately documented a lot of the issues we still chat about today. They're just harder to search and read then organized HTML pages.
> 
> The online planted tank community went through the big box needle valve trials many years ago.
> There are reasons people are paying $100 plus for regulators and needle valves. One is safety. At 800 psi if your $5.00 needle valve cap lets go, you have a small missile near your glass tank.
> 
> A second issue is that a tiny bit of moisture and CO2 under pressure makes an acidic combination that will eat at the cheap needle valve. One day the valve just stops being a needle valve, the paintball tank is empty, and the tank water suddenly stinks of dead fish. The people refilling paint ball tanks might not have been taught by certified gas handlers.
> 
> As long as people are aware of the dangers, this thread is a great way for people to get into pressurized CO2. PLEASE, if you go this route, start saving money for an standard industrial regulator and good quality needle valve.


That's correct. I do understand that completely. I was planning to replace the needle valve after 12-16 months of usage. I was working on my car today and I noticed a annoying lost of pressure from my air tank so I re-attach new air couplers and all of them have massive rust inside the thread. Then it made me think about the needle valve itself on my paintball tank, long term it will need to be replace. No biggie though.


----------



## Barristan

Anyone use one of these?
*no ebay links*

OR

*no ebay links*

a bit more expensive:
*no ebay links*


----------



## jeffvmd

I think they have a different thread specification which is not compatible with paintball CO2 tanks here in the US.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/equipment/116456-has-anyone-used-type-co2-regulator.html
I was trying to go that route as the regulators are cheap.
There are some cheap ASA paintball valves right now on ebay together with the other fittings for the build.
All the other materials are in and I am awaiting my needle valves right now so I can complete the build.


----------



## daewoo59

*CO2 Regulator*

Dear Madam

Do u shut off Co2 during nights when lights are in off.Yes i used this green colour two number one for tank hose and other one when i close the value during nights i open the other value which is kept in bottle of water since iam using home made Co2 equipment.It works well.

Devadoss




Jaggedfury said:


> Seriously, I don't worry about anything as far as the paintball co2 setup. Turn it on and leave. I think i removed, the On/Off valve at least 3 times to take photos and show here. it's been running for quite a while and still reads a little above 800psi. My guess is that it will hit somewhere between 5-6 months at least. It will keep it's steady pressure til at least when it's less than 50 psi, I would guess.
> 
> As far as the tubing goes, it's okay to pretend to not know what your looking for when shopping around. But do know the terms of the items so the workers there can actually direct you to the right section for the item itself. I'm sure if you ask a employee there, they'll suggest a co2 tubing size that will only fit in that needle valve coupler without any leakage if you tighten it all the way.
> 
> I was there 2 days ago and there seem to be numerous types of air line hoses, some thinner than standard aquarium hoses, and a few that is slightly bigger and then there's the ones where you use for ice makers machines.
> 
> As long as this helps one person, it was well worth sharing.
> 
> DIY yeast just isn't my thing. Although I'm very familiar with it and how to rig up numerous 2 liters bottles, just the hassle of mixing the yeast and sugar is a pain after so many times. Not to mention temperature being a major problem to the fermentation of the yeast culture. Having a DIY yeast bottle soaked in a 5 gallon bucket full of water with a additional heater submersed in it just took too many space and just wasn't feeling it.


----------



## Jaggedfury

daewoo59, I actually don't shut it off. It runs 24/7. I'm using very simple plants that doesn't require lots of lights and co2. But I figure injecting co2 would benefit somehow so I just went that route. It keeps my pH down also. I'm only growing Glossotigma as a complete foreground covering plant, along with Fissiden Fontanus on some rock structures/driftwood and Hyrophila Polysperma as a backdrop at the back of the tank. Pretty simple and clean setup. It's running on 2bps, I could get it down to 1bps if needed. 

Don't get me wrong, DIY yeast is a great thing to have, it's just from my personal experiences.. I just don't like the clutterness of the setup of bottles and having to tend to it weekly. By all means, it works for tons of people with great results.


----------



## xpistalpetex

i too have a paintball co2 injection.
except i am not using an on/off just standard asa(air source adapter).
homedepot needle valve, using mini o rings instead of teflon to push the hose line part against the body itself to create a seal. it works -.-b


----------



## g33tar

I just went thru my brothers old paintball stuff and was only able to find one of those gray woven-type paintball air bottles. It has a PSI gauge on the side of it, but it goes up to 8000psi. Im guessing this would not work?


----------



## Jaggedfury

g33tar said:


> I just went thru my brothers old paintball stuff and was only able to find one of those gray woven-type paintball air bottles. It has a PSI gauge on the side of it, but it goes up to 8000psi. Im guessing this would not work?


Not able to picture it at the moment without any pictures. Paintball Co2 tank are rated at about 1800 psi max. A Paintball Co2 tank will be filled to 800-850psi. The gauge that your brother has on, doesn't mean it will fill up to 8000psi. Make sure it's not a Paintball Oxygen Tank instead, If it is, you can't use it to fill C02. Throw a picture up so it will help in telling it apart if it can be use or not.


----------



## g33tar

It looks like this...











Ive just spent the past hour or so looking for cheap co2 tanks...From what I've read, it looks like Walmart sells them pretty cheaply pre-filled? They also exchange empty tanks for pre-filled tanks for like 6 bucks? Similar to what Lowes and Home Depot do with propane tanks, supposedly..


Also, are those pieces attached at the top called ' ASA's ' or is that just a brand that makes them? Im having a hard time finding one less than 30-35 bucks


----------



## Jaggedfury

I believed that's a Compressed Air tank, I might be wrong. I remember searching for Paintball Co2 tanks when setting mines up months ago and I kept in mind, if it's bigger than a 24 oz and rounder, it's compressed air instead of co2? I might be wrong still though. I did a quick search and it seems like those type tank are " compressed air" http://www.hustlepaintball.com/Compressed-Air-Tanks-s/36.htm
Someone could chime in on this..

As far as Wal-Mart, I know they dont refill for us here in my town. And the tanks that they carry are 9oz and 20z at the store only. Might be different in different states.


----------



## Jaggedfury

The term ASA refers to Air Source Adapter. It's just a adapter piece that adapts to another adapter. Kind of confusing... lol

Unless your looking at ebay for ASA or On/Off Valves for Paintball Co2 tank, your not going to find them for 30-35 bucks, unless your lucky. If you have local paintball stores, they might carry used ones. A few people here gotten used ones for under $20. But again, make sure your tank is used for Co2 and not Oxygen. By the picture above, it looks to me to be a Oxygen tank. Therefore, I'm not sure if it's able to handle Co2 instead of Oxygen. I do however know that Oxygen tanks once filled is 3x as heavier than Co2 paintball tanks.


----------



## g33tar

Yea I figured I would just go pick up one of those Walmart tanks tomorrow. Probably the larger one you mentioned. I guess ill have to get the phone out and call up the local paintball places and bargain hunt  Thanks for the help.


----------



## llamabob

g33tar said:


> Yea I figured I would just go pick up one of those Walmart tanks tomorrow. Probably the larger one you mentioned. I guess ill have to get the phone out and call up the local paintball places and bargain hunt  Thanks for the help.


Sent you a PM with link to the on/off valve. I couldn't find my old paintball tank in the basement so I bought the 20oz Wal-mart one, think it was like $20, it didn't come filled. I had it filled at a local sporting goods store for $5.


----------



## Sundance2010

Most of the talk here is about small tanks. I have a 55G, is this going to work with that big of a tank and will I have to do something different for the bigger tank?


----------



## Jaggedfury

I'm using mines on Three seperate 20gallon tanks. They're all shrimps tanks with medium to heavy aquascaping. It would work for 55gallon also. It all depends on what plants your using. There's low level plants, medium level plants and high level plants. The co2 injection is also base on what light output your using. 

If worst comes to worst and your tank is super heavy planted, you can use 2 of this setup, one on each side of the tank. $100 dollars should be able to get you 2 complete setup. 
Complete meaning.. paintball tanks filled 24oz, on/off valves, gauges, needle valves, co2 hoses, check valves, ceramic diffusers with suction cups, and teflon tape.


----------



## Sundance2010

How do I know what the Co2 requirements are for a given plant. My lighting is a 48" two tube (T5) at 6500k about 6 or 8 in. above the water. What is that considered to be, high, medium or low. I plan on having a fairly high plant load.

Thanks Jaddedfury, you are assume:biggrin:


----------



## jeffvmd

@sundance - if you are using an external canister filter, you can install an inline reactor to dissolve CO2 better in bigger tanks. I actually have one in my 20 gal long.


----------



## Sundance2010

Right now I am using a hang on but will most likely go to a canister filter at some point.


----------



## Jaggedfury

I'm not too knowledgable in the area of what plants each plants need as far as lighting and co2. You're going to have to direct that question to the "Lighting" and "Aquascaping" Threads. I didn't want to lead you in the wrong way.

If you could care less, I always go with 3wpg.. I know that's not something stamped and true to follow but it has always worked for me with the plants I kept. Your lighting is in the medium to low, guessing. 

You should spread those microswords around. It will look awesome when it spreads out.


----------



## g33tar

Alright so would you suggest getting one of those meters that goes to 800? It seems like you said yours does not go up past 800 on a full tank? 

I was thinking I'd take the 8000psi gauge off my brothers tank, but it would not be very accurate...but I dont want to get one that doesnt measure the full amount...

I was thinking of buying the larger bottle that Walmart sells, if that helps?

Another question, for anyone who has a good grasp on how quickly co2 is used out of a tank - How long would a 9oz tank at 1bps last? Im guessing a 9oz tank would be cheaper to fill than a 20oz? or do places usually have a flat fill-up rate?


----------



## kidk

Just a FYI for people looking for more buying options: Sports Chalet (vacaville, ca location) sells new 20 oz tanks for $20 and refills for $3.50 which is located at the diving/scuba section of the store. I didnt see any other parts (regulator/gauges) related to this build. I called Sports Authority and Big 5 but they only sold tanks, no refills. Ordered the rest of my parts of ebay.


----------



## jeffvmd

g33tar - I suggest you get the higher pressure gauge. I just built mine today and the pressure shot way past the 800 mark. I have a 1200psi gauge.

kidk - thats a good price for a tank and refill.


----------



## Jaggedfury

g33tar said:


> Alright so would you suggest getting one of those meters that goes to 800? It seems like you said yours does not go up past 800 on a full tank?
> 
> I was thinking I'd take the 8000psi gauge off my brothers tank, but it would not be very accurate...but I dont want to get one that doesnt measure the full amount...
> 
> I was thinking of buying the larger bottle that Walmart sells, if that helps?
> 
> Another question, for anyone who has a good grasp on how quickly co2 is used out of a tank - How long would a 9oz tank at 1bps last? Im guessing a 9oz tank would be cheaper to fill than a 20oz? or do places usually have a flat fill-up rate?


I didn't meant to get you confused. What I meant to say is, Co2 Paintball tank of 20oz or 24oz will hold 850 psi max. Not sure about the smaller tanks, no experiences. My gauge says 1200psi is where it tops out at, but it will never go that high. Due to safety regulations of filling these co2 paintball tank. I've personally seen 3000psi gauges, but not 8000psi. I'm thinking the 8000psi is for Oxygen air tanks intead of Co2 tanks. Either one is used alot in the paintball sport. So it won't measure the "full amount" because in a 20oz and 24oz, they're will only refill you to 850psi. 

Now referring to the ones walmart sells, I know what our talking about, I recalled seeing those. Those are standard co2 tanks. You will need the right regulator and needle valve for those, which means disregard this thread. It's uses co2 paintball tank instead. 

Can't comment on the 9oz refilling. Haven't used one yet.


----------



## NickS

Well, here's my setup. Impulse buy at the local paintball shop so it wasn't el cheapo like the rest of the setups here.

I couldn't figure out how to get the valve adjusted to 1 bps and I played with it for an hour before I figured out that the nut that seals the needle in place was extremely loose! Be sure to check that...could have become a projectile easily. I teflon taped it and wrenched it down tight. Now I can get 1 bps fairly easily.

I made a bubble counter from a check valve and dosage syringe (found in any pharmacy) based on Wasserpest's seen here. It's attached via a very short piece of 1/4" hose from Lowe's. The hose bends when I hook up the hose that goes to the tank so I need to find something stiffer to attach the bubble counter, but it still works.

Now all I need is a proper diffuser.

Thanks Jaggedfury!!


----------



## Jaggedfury

No problem! Looks great. But really pink? lol just messing with you. Yepp, make sure all nuts are tighten down very good. Ceramic diffuser are often time on ebay for $5 dollar shipped.


----------



## NickS

Pink...I know, man. I really messed that one up. I'm colorblind and I didn't notice the color until I got home.

:/


----------



## Barristan

Would something like this work to reduce the pressure to something within the specifications of the HD needle valve, for safety purposes?
*removed ebay link*

Also, does anyone have a part number the Home Depot needle valve? I bought one but it wouldn't fit the ASA on/off I bought.


----------



## Sundance2010

kidk said:


> Just a FYI for people looking for more buying options: Sports Chalet (vacaville, ca location) sells new 20 oz tanks for $20 and refills for $3.50 which is located at the diving/scuba section of the store. I didnt see any other parts (regulator/gauges) related to this build. I called Sports Authority and Big 5 but they only sold tanks, no refills. Ordered the rest of my parts of ebay.



Anyone have any idea how long a 20 oz would last with a 55g, low plant load (for now) and high light? I'm using the yeast generators now and that is only temp. till I decide what I want to do for a pressurized system. But if the 20 oz. will last a couple of months or more it would be worth it to do that for such a small investment.


----------



## NickS

Barristan: The needle valve I got is a Watts A-41. I got it at Lowe's. Not sure what Home Depot has, but maybe that info will help.


----------



## Sundance2010

kidk said:


> Just a FYI for people looking for more buying options: Sports Chalet (vacaville, ca location) sells new 20 oz tanks for $20 and refills for $3.50 which is located at the diving/scuba section of the store. I didnt see any other parts (regulator/gauges) related to this build. I called Sports Authority and Big 5 but they only sold tanks, no refills. Ordered the rest of my parts of ebay.


You lucked out, I was just in there (over by Best Buy in the NutTree, right) and they are now $30. the 24 oz. is $35 and a refill is $5, didn't ask about refil for the 20 oz.


----------



## Sundance2010

nickstaroba said:


> Barristan: The needle valve I got is a Watts A-41. I got it at Lowe's. Not sure what Home Depot has, but maybe that info will help.


I just picked one up at Lowes.


----------



## spaeth05

Need some help on this project. I found out I made a mistake when I ordered the needle valve (it arrived today and the threading was much too small). What a waste! I was trying to buy a beefier needle valve and ordered a swagelok 3000 PSI unit. Could anyone confirm the appropriate thread size and or part # for one of the better needle valves? Msnikkistar I believe recommended one but I was not able to find that same model after extensive googling and ebaying!

Thanks for your help.


----------



## g33tar

Alright you guys...I just bought all the stuff needed to do this on ebay, so im looking forward to all of that stuff coming in...

BUT...im sitting at work today (liquor store) and we just got these Miller Light/Coors light home draft things in that have a mini beer-tap kind of thing with co2. Now, I know almost nothing about how air pressurized things work, but I was wondering...whos going to be the first to turn this into a co2 system for an aquarium? 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gka2fuofO2E&feature=related


----------



## msnikkistar

spaeth05 said:


> Need some help on this project. I found out I made a mistake when I ordered the needle valve (it arrived today and the threading was much too small). What a waste! I was trying to buy a beefier needle valve and ordered a swagelok 3000 PSI unit. Could anyone confirm the appropriate thread size and or part # for one of the better needle valves? Msnikkistar I believe recommended one but I was not able to find that same model after extensive googling and ebaying!
> 
> Thanks for your help.


You will need a 1/8th NPT 

Over_stocked has 2 for sale on the SNS in the model I have.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Homedepot and Lowe's carry the same brand and model number. I'm using 3 of these when I rigged these units up. No problem at all. Able to turn to 1bps easily.

I tried to make it simple for everyone. lol. Can't get any simplier than that.
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

It's made from brass instead of copper. Co2 won't chemically eat it up too fast, but I would recommend replacing it every 12-18 months. It's only $5.49 for the unit. Can't get any cheaper than that.

Mines been running for a few weeks now, still reads 830 ish PSI at 2bps.


----------



## jeffvmd

g33tar said:


> Alright you guys...I just bought all the stuff needed to do this on ebay, so im looking forward to all of that stuff coming in...
> 
> BUT...im sitting at work today (liquor store) and we just got these Miller Light/Coors light home draft things in that have a mini beer-tap kind of thing with co2. Now, I know almost nothing about how air pressurized things work, but I was wondering...whos going to be the first to turn this into a co2 system for an aquarium?
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gka2fuofO2E&feature=related


Those are the 16g nonthreaded cartridge I presume. 
There is a threaded 16g cartridge used commonly in bike inflators and other beer taps.:icon_bigg
It is possible with a similar build as jaggedfury did as there are "on-off valves" for this type of cartridge.
http://www.schwinnbike.com/CMS/tnt/bike-maintenance/inflator_bg.jpg
a hose barb and a needle valve that fits are the other parts you'll need.
However it wouldn't be economical to be changing so often the cartridges as it will add up to be more costly than the 20-24 oz tanks.



spaeth05 said:


> Need some help on this project. I found out I made a mistake when I ordered the needle valve (it arrived today and the threading was much too small). What a waste! I was trying to buy a beefier needle valve and ordered a swagelok 3000 PSI unit. Could anyone confirm the appropriate thread size and or part # for one of the better needle valves? Msnikkistar I believe recommended one but I was not able to find that same model after extensive googling and ebaying!
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your help.


Try to search on ebay PARKER NEEDLE VALVE 1/8" SPN200B
This one is rated at 2000psi
You'll need to get fittings and barbs for it too as this is just the needle valve itself.
I got this off at around $14 each.

Or just get the usual valve at home depot or lowes which is half the price. It just sucks that most home depots in my area doesn't carry 1/8 fitting/valves so I had to get all my stuff on ebay. It was only the needle valve that ended up costing more but with the other parts being way cheaper has just offset my build cost.
I'll post the rigs I made as soon as my hose barbs get here.


----------



## hbosman

This is a very interesting alternative to other options and I sure wished I knew about it about 5 years ago when I started with a Redsea Paintball regulator that cost me much more than this option. I did want to point out other lower cost options as well. The first link shows something that is indeed cga320 compatible. You might see something similar on ebay that probably has threads compatible with asia and europe so, keep that in mind on your searches.

http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/4530/product.web

Below is what I wound up doing. I have been running Dual Stages for about a year. Prior to that I used a regulator from a beer brewers sight. Below is a dual stage regulator which keeps pressure constant when the bottle gets near empty. No tweaking as the pressure goes down. I still use paintball tanks because space is an issue for me. It cost more to build than the paintball asa shutoff valve setup in this thread but, it's still cheaper than buying a Milwaukee or Azoo setup.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/h_bosman/4379697140/in/set-72157622829944660/

I just wanted to share some other options for you *diy*ers.


----------



## dzydvl

*Re: Paintball Co2 Injection DIY Setup*

Ok I'm going to ask a really dumb question, but I bet someone out there is wondering this as well. My 
Paintball tank has an on/off valve, then the needle valve, why would I need a regulator. I know it is a dumb question, but I'm new here so forgive me.
sent from my phone, because I can't get the internet out in the boonies.


----------



## Hadouken441

the on off valve is the reg/asa.


----------



## hbosman

dzydvl said:


> Ok I'm going to ask a really dumb question, but I bet someone out there is wondering this as well. My
> Paintball tank has an on/off valve, then the needle valve, why would I need a regulator. I know it is a dumb question, but I'm new here so forgive me.
> sent from my phone, because I can't get the internet out in the boonies.


A regulator steps down the usual CO2 pressure of 800 to 1000 PSI down to 10, 20 or 100 psi for instance. This is usually adjustable. Lower pressures are much easier to adjust the bubble rate. In the case of a dual stage regulator, it will also compensate for changes in cylinder pressure from temperature change or when the paintball bottle starts to get empty.

The ASA or shut off valve and needle valve combination is still holding back 800 to 1000 PSI (depending on temperature) and that is alittle harder to adjust to the desired bubble rate.


----------



## dzydvl

*Re: Paintball Co2 Injection DIY Setup*

Thanks for the CO2 for dummies explanation. That helped a lot... 

sent from my phone, because I can't get the internet out in the boonies.


----------



## Barristan

I have CO2 leaking from the needle valve's adjustment knob. I dunked it in a bucket of water. It only leaks when I turn the needle valve on. Is this fixable or do I need a new valve?


----------



## NickS

Barristan, is the nut tight on the adjustment knob?


----------



## Barristan

ah, yes that was it. thanks


----------



## Jaggedfury

Yepp, Noticed a few people tend to forget about that nut. All nuts that can be tighten should be tighten down with a wrench. Also double check thereafter.


----------



## g33tar

Ok...holy crap.

I got my gauge and the on/off adapter in the mail today (Thanks llamabob for the ebay link) and I threw it all together just like was explained on here...and it works. I dont even believe it. I dont know what to say. One second I had yeast co2 going, 10 minutes later I now have pressurized. Crazy. 

I even made the mistake of twisting the needle valve too far and it let out a hurricane style wind....I looked at the gauge on the tank expecting all my co2 to be gone...and the needle didnt even budge. This aught to be interesting to see how long this lasts.

Thankyou thankyou a million times thankyou to you Jagged and everyone else who has supplied useful information on this thread. I LOVE this kind of homemade / affordable stuff. 

-Alex


----------



## Jaggedfury

Lol.  No problem. Glad you were able to put it together. 1 to 10 scale being 10 very difficult, how difficult was it? lol 1? 

It's pretty simple.


----------



## jeffvmd

Jaggedfury said:


> Yepp, Noticed a few people tend to forget about that nut. All nuts that can be tighten should be tighten down with a wrench. Also double check thereafter.


Definitely use a wrench!
The bare hand is no match for the 800+psi trying to come out of that valve.
I also thought that my new needle valves were defective as there are bubbles coming out when I closed the valve using my hand.
So i had the CO2 tank removed, closed the valve with my hands and alas, no bubbles coming out. So I opened the valve and bubbles came out. When I tried to close it again using my hands, it never fully closes and 1 bubble/ 2-3sec comes out of the valve.
Then it came to that I just needed to use a wrench/pliers to really tighten it as the pressure pushing through the needle valve is too high for my bare hand to be able to close it fully.

Here is the rig I set up.
















Thanks Jaggedfury for this really useful and cheap DIY CO2 rig.:thumbsup:


----------



## Jaggedfury

Ditto. Nice. May it last yall a few thousands years. haha j/k. A few years at least


----------



## g33tar

Yea it was probably a 1 on a difficulty scale. When in doubt, I just used twice as much teflon tape as I thought was appropriate.  

On / off and gauge - 20 dollars shipped
WATTS A-41 needle valve - 5 dollars
Filled 20oz co2 tank - 15 dollars 
12ft of tube - 1.80

I cant believe this worked for about 40 dollars. I was expecting it to turn into a missile while I was at work, but its still where I left it.


----------



## ridewake210

Check out Ebay # 290482260893


----------



## twizzle

Hello everyone. Great thread,fantastic, well done everyone. 

OK here's the deal, I want a co2 unit so badly but i have no clue and need an idiots( Blond)guide to putting one of these great units together.

Can i get everything i need besides the co2 tank at the Home Depot.
Can someone smarter than me (not difficult) write down in just one message a list of parts that i should get as the more i read this great thread the more confused i'm getting and it 's giving me a headache lol. Is it possible for me to get everything i need on feebay ? 

Help help help i need my plants to grow...


----------



## Jaggedfury

You can get the Needle Valve, Co2 Tubing and Teflon Tape at Homedepot.

Co2 Paintball tank, On and Off Valve, and Gauge needs to be bought at Paintball store or Internet.

You will need a way to diffuse the Co2, either through a ceramic diffuser, or a reactor or through a inline canister filter. That can be made, rigged, or bought online.

Parts you need.

- Standard Paintball Co2 Tank with Pin Valve - $20 - $28 depending on tank size. $28 refer to 24oz.

- Any Paintball Co2 On and Off Valve (Make sure it has 2 threaded input slots for Gauge and Needle Valve) $20 -$60 depending on brand.

- Any Paintball Co2 Gauge $5-$10 depending on brand. (Optional to have, only tells you when your Co2 tank is full or not)

- Needle Valve from HomeDepot - $5.99

- Co2 Tubing - $2-4

- Teflon Tape $1.49


----------



## twizzle

Thank you JaggedFury for quick reply. What PSI does the needle valve have to be, which valve should i get? Everytime i go to the depot i somehow always manage to come home with the wrong stuff. lol

Anyone know of any reasonably priced complete units available anywhere online, plug and play?


----------



## Jaggedfury

We'll, The ones I'm using from Homedepot (http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053), is listed at 400psi, some of the people here suggest getting higher rated psi needle valve since your Co2 Paintball tank will be at around filled to 850psi. I've have been using the Homedepot needle valve and had no problems, been running a few months now over 9 months. The brand and part number is Watts A-41.

There won't be no complete unit assemble for you, as to this is a something I rigged up. There might be one for sale, but high chance. A member here got the entire thing made for about $40 dollars. Worth a shot, it's very simple to rig up and find parts.


----------



## g33tar

Another tip - make sure you get 1/4 outside diameter and .170 inside diameter hose. I got a smaller inside diameter and once I put the brass fitting in the end of the hose, it wouldn't slide into the needle valve.


----------



## Sundance2010

What are some good canister type filters that would be the right size for my 55g aquarium?


----------



## NickS

g33tar, I had the same problem. But I handled it by running the hose under hot water for a minute and then it slid through just fine.


----------



## g33tar

Ive got a question for you guys who are experienced with pressurized co2....What is the pattern for the co2 pressure loss? ....like...does the gauge slowly go down to 0 at a steady pace, or does it stay at ~800 then drop off to 0 in the matter of a few days? Im so pumped about this I cant even explain it. :icon_bigg


----------



## Jaggedfury

g33tar said:


> Ive got a question for you guys who are experienced with pressurized co2....What is the pattern for the co2 pressure loss? ....like...does the gauge slowly go down to 0 at a steady pace, or does it stay at ~800 then drop off to 0 in the matter of a few days? Im so pumped about this I cant even explain it. :icon_bigg


Mines been running for a couple months and still reads 840-850psi. You will notice it going down but it's going to slowly drop. Like super slow base on your output co2 bubble per second. These setup could easily last you well over 4-6 months, maybe even more. I will let you know when mines hit the 800 psi mark. Give me a few more weeks lol.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Sundance2010 said:


> What are some good canister type filters that would be the right size for my 55g aquarium?


Depends on what you have in your tank. I have a Fluval Fx5 on a 55gallon tank. It's an overkill but it does its job and a whole lot more. Tons of room for media options. Can't have enough filtration.


----------



## voyetra8

Hey all... I've acquired everything I need to put this system together, except for a needle valve. 

For some reason, the Watts A-41 sold at HomeDepot is not available in California - and they won't even _ship_ it to California. I assume it has something to do with our ridiculous "nanny" laws here. Ugh. 

I keep searching on eBay, but it's really hard to tell which needle valve will actually work without additional parts, etc. 

Can someone please link me a specific eBay auction through a PM or something? 

Thanks a ton!


----------



## CalebD77

I bought mine in California lol Sacramento.


----------



## voyetra8

CalebD77 said:


> I bought mine in California lol Sacramento.


Maybe their site is having problems... it says specifically it's not available in CA.


----------



## dzydvl

*Re: Paintball Co2 Injection DIY Setup*

Do you know anyone on the board? Ask them to buy and ship to you.

sent from my phone, because I can't get the internet out in the boonies.


----------



## g33tar

I know two local home depots here did not carry the needle valve but my local lowes did... Don't know if you guys have got lowes there


----------



## Jaggedfury

I got mines at Homedepot in town... go visit your local Homedepot store or Lowes. It's the same part numbers and brand. They both carry it, drive there and check it out.


----------



## voyetra8

g33tar said:


> I know two local home depots here did not carry the needle valve but my local lowes did... Don't know if you guys have got lowes there


We've got a Lowes somewhat close... but the Lowes' site doesn't have any results for "needle valve." 

What part of the store did you find it in? Is it in plumbing?


----------



## voyetra8

Jaggedfury said:


> I got mines at Homedepot in town... go visit your local Homedepot store or Lowes. It's the same part numbers and brand. They both carry it, drive there and check it out.


OK, I'll give it a shot tomorrow. Home Depot is right up the street. 

What section of the store would I find it in?


----------



## g33tar

It's in the plumbing section right by the clear air tubing. They usually have all the brass fittings mounted to a wall so it's pretty easy to find. Good luck


----------



## voyetra8

g33tar said:


> It's in the plumbing section right by the clear air tubing. They usually have all the brass fittings mounted to a wall so it's pretty easy to find. Good luck


How can I turn down advice from Spagett?


----------



## g33tar

voyetra8 said:


> How can I turn down advice from Spagett?


You got so spooked


----------



## voyetra8

g33tar said:


> You got so spooked


Too funny. This man with long tail just popped out and said "Spagett!" 

I live in LA and last week I was out to lunch, and I turned around to find Tim and Eric sitting behind me over a working lunch. I texted my wife who said I should spook them. LOL

My 3 year old runs around singing "_Good news!_ Cigarette juice!" which is kind of crazy and makes me simultaneously feel like a bad/awesome parent.


----------



## voyetra8

Well everyone, I figured out why you can't find that particular needle valve here in California... it's because it's got lead in it, and California doesn't like lead in their consumer products.

I went to the local Home Depot, and found a "lead free" version of the same needle valve, for just a few dollars more. 

So, if all goes as planned, I'll have my ultra low cost rig up and running shortly! 

I've got a new ASA on/off, gauge, tank, and needle valve for under $30. All new too. Muhahaha. 

So, thanks for all of the info in this thread!


----------



## Chonda89

is there any cheap way to get the psi down from 800 to something a lot lower? It's kinda scary when I try to turn the needle valve a little and then my check valve shoots across the room. :/


----------



## Sundance2010

A regulator is the only way I know of and you are looking at $60 or $70 and up.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Chonda89 said:


> is there any cheap way to get the psi down from 800 to something a lot lower? It's kinda scary when I try to turn the needle valve a little and then my check valve shoots across the room. :/


This shouldn't happened.. check the followings..

-Are you sure the check valve is in the right position, not backward?
-Co2 Tubing hose size correct fitment being snug and tight once slip on a connector.
-You should release your needle valve slowly, super slowly just a tiny bit.


----------



## jeffvmd

@jaggedfury - Is there any end of tank dump incidence with your paintball CO2 set up?
The gauge drops when the tank is about to empty right?
Does this occur gradually say in a span of days? weeks?
Do you wait for the gauge to read zero before you change tanks?


----------



## Jaggedfury

As of today, it went down to 800 psi. I'ts been running a few weeks now, at max it was at 850psi. Been running since I made this diy thread.

When the gauge drops, it doesn't drop straight to 0psi. Since it took a few weeks to use up 50 psi (base on 850psi being max on paintball co2 tanks) I would have to say it will last a few months. I know for sure more than 5 months to say the least. It will slowly drop, like within a week it would slowly move the needle just a bit. So there's no straight drop indicator. I do know that gas expands and contract due to atmospheric temperatures, so maybe sometime in the coming winter, it will be used up quicker. But at the moment I'm looking at at least well over 5 months on one refill at 2bps.

I actually refills mines when it's near 50psi. I don't let it get to fully empty.


----------



## NickS

Another thought on EOTD...if it's a 20 or 24 oz. tank, how much could it really be dumping?

So far I've found this unit to work well. My only gripe is that I have to keep adjusting the needle valve due to temperature changes around the bottle. From what I've read though, this is common even to larger setups. It's just tough with this needle valve. I'll probably upgrade to a Fabco NV-55 and also see about insulating the bottle.


----------



## jeffvmd

I had EOTD dillema's as I use this on a small fluval edge tank. It happened on my 88g canister rig in this edge tank that's why I was a bit worried.

It's also tough on higher quality needle valves.
I use a parker valve at 2000psi and still it is hard to do adjustments.
I use pliers to grasp and help in fine tuning the knob.


----------



## voyetra8

Is there a rule against posting links to products off-site? I had two people PM me to ask what parts I used... I got them off of Amazon, and I'm happy to post the links here for everyone's benefit if it's OK. 

System has been up and running for a few days without issue. I made a bubble counter today out of a check valve and a syringe, which is also working like a charm. 

Thanks a ton for the guide!


----------



## Capsaicin_MFK

Custom Products ASA On/Off valve - $24 shipped on eBay
Swagelok B-ORM2 Needle valve - $29 shipped from over_stocked
1/8" to 1/4" adapter - $2.50
3/16" barb fitting - $2.35
20oz. paintball tank - FREE


----------



## Jaggedfury

Looks awesome! How's the fine tuning of the Swagelok B-ORM2 Needle valve?


----------



## Capsaicin_MFK

Jaggedfury said:


> Looks awesome! How's the fine tuning of the Swagelok B-ORM2 Needle valve?


Couldn't tell you...still have to get the tank filled and get a psi gauge. Also waiting on my drop checkers in the mail.

Thank you so much for this write-up. I was looking for a way to put co2 in my 10g without spending money on a huge system.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Yepp, no problem.


----------



## NickS

Capsaicin_MFK: I'm interested to hear about that needle valve as well. Let us know how it performs


----------



## oaomcg

this is my first post here

i am new to planted tanks and have been searching for an affordable co2 rig for a while
this is perfect

using your instructions i was able to assemble a system for ~$60 

thank you for sharing this.

one question. does anyone know if the tank can be placed on it's side? or should it be upright when in operation. i know they are often sideways or at an angle when attached to a marker but i'm unsure if it will work laying on it's side in this setup.

thanks


----------



## ddtran46

oaomcg said:


> this is my first post here
> 
> i am new to planted tanks and have been searching for an affordable co2 rig for a while
> this is perfect
> 
> using your instructions i was able to assemble a system for ~$60
> 
> thank you for sharing this.
> 
> one question. does anyone know if the tank can be placed on it's side? or should it be upright when in operation. i know they are often sideways or at an angle when attached to a marker but i'm unsure if it will work laying on it's side in this setup.
> 
> thanks


I think it's best to put it upright while operating.


----------



## dtilley

it should be placed upright to prevent liquid co2 from getting into the line as that would surely cause an unwanted CO2 spike as well as safety concerns.


----------



## oaomcg

that's what i figured
thanks for the input!


----------



## g33tar

Figure I'd throw up some pictures of my DIY rig. Thanks again for the help. Its been running great and is slowly bringing my HC back to life. Ive got it running through the mini-elite.

















]


----------



## Jaggedfury

Nice! That's how you do it with the Teflon tape. Show whos boss.


----------



## NickS

Would this needle valve work? Looks like it would need to be inline with the tubing.


----------



## NJAquaBarren

Wouldn't an inline needle valve cause excess pressure on the tubing upstream from the valve?


----------



## Jaggedfury

nickstaroba said:


> Would this needle valve work? Looks like it would need to be inline with the tubing.


Not sure if that would work. If your using Swagelok brand, members here are using the Swagelok B-ORM2 Needle valve. Might want to look that up.


----------



## dzydvl

So I was out and about, and I found a hole in the wall paintball shop, so I stopped in. I ended up finding the adapter and gauge for $11.00. I asked if they had anyore, but it was the last one. They are going to order me two more. If I can get more I'll do it and sell them if anyone wants one.

sent from my phone, because I can't get the internet out in the boonies.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Cool! Locally paintball shops tends to have it cheaper than online. Whether it's a gauge or on/off asa adapter.


----------



## dzydvl

Here's a picture.... I hope its the right kind, lol.









sent from my phone, because I can't get the internet out in the boonies.


----------



## jeremyblevins

so i stopped by the local lowes and they have the needle valve so i got it. yay



dzydvl said:


> So I was out and about, and I found a hole in the wall paintball shop, so I stopped in. I ended up finding the adapter and gauge for $11.00. I asked if they had anyore, but it was the last one. They are going to order me two more. If I can get more I'll do it and sell them if anyone wants one.
> 
> sent from my phone, because I can't get the internet out in the boonies.


do you have a picture of it 11 is pretty cheap?
haha my bad didn't see the next page, do you have any different angled pictures of like the twist part? and is it 3 hole or 2 hole?


----------



## Jaggedfury

dzydvl said:


> Here's a picture.... I hope its the right kind, lol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sent from my phone, because I can't get the internet out in the boonies.


Looks like the right one base on the online website itself. 
http://www.trinitypaintball.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=TR+657

If the opposite side of the gauge doesn't have a thread, you can always remove the gauge itself and use a needle valve on that side instead. If it does have another threaded side on the opposite side of the gauge, then put the needle valve there while keeping your gauge in the same position it is now.


----------



## dzydvl

Here are the pics you requested..... everything fits nice and tight, no leaks.... now for the real test...... as I said, if I can get more, and if this one works, I would be willing to buy them and sell to anyone who is interested. Cost would be the total price, plus shipping. So no more than $20, but I know shipping is less.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Looking good. Do list total price you spent. I still have a few members messaging me about a ball park average for total price.

Thanks
Jase


----------



## jeffvmd

@dzydvl - by far that is the cheapest price for an asa on/off with gauge price.
So far the cheapest I got from ebay for an ASA on/off valve - $12 and gauge - $5.

$20 shipped for the ASA on/off, gauge and home depot needle valve is the cheapest way to get the set.


----------



## aquaworld10

*Jaggedfury*

Hey Jaggedfury,

This is pretty good stuff. Looks like you spend good amount of time doing these nice researches. My tank is not rightly setup for plantedone or else i would give that a shot.

By the way, FYI, I have ordered that FX5 filter, I am expecting that to arrive in about couple of weeks. Will let you know how it works out once I get it.

Thanks


----------



## Jaggedfury

aquaworld10 said:


> Hey Jaggedfury,
> 
> This is pretty good stuff. Looks like you spend good amount of time doing these nice researches. My tank is not rightly setup for plantedone or else i would give that a shot.
> 
> By the way, FYI, I have ordered that FX5 filter, I am expecting that to arrive in about couple of weeks. Will let you know how it works out once I get it.
> 
> Thanks


Thanks. Yepp, Works great. Do give it a shot if you ever go into planted tank. Even if it doesn't require co2, co2 will help promote growth faster. As you know, it's pretty cheap to rig one up. Doesn't take up alot of room. Definitely keep me updated on the Fx5, you went with the right choice.


----------



## jeremyblevins

dzydvl said:


> Here are the pics you requested..... everything fits nice and tight, no leaks.... now for the real test...... as I said, if I can get more, and if this one works, I would be willing to buy them and sell to anyone who is interested. Cost would be the total price, plus shipping. So no more than $20, but I know shipping is less.


Those look really nice. Definitely pm me when you get them, I've already got the neddle valve from lowes so the gauge and asa is all I need. If I can't find something locally ill definitly buy one from you


----------



## dzydvl

I will give the the place a call tomorrow and see how if they can order several of them. I should have clarified, the Ada on/off with the pressure gauge was $11.61. If I can get more I will ship them out if people want. If there would be an interest I would be willing to buy the individual parts and assemble them. In that case it would be whatever the cost of parts would be, plus shipping. I will know more tomorrow on the Ada valve. It looks like a few people might be interested, if you would be just let me know in this thread. I only get 25 pm's, so my box fills up quickly. Anyone know how to get that increased? 

sent from my phone, because I can't get the internet out in the boonies.


----------



## Cloudfish

A quick couple of questions for you guys. I'd really like to use this approach for my 65g tank--so far my method of DIY (a couple of 2 liter bottles) will only change my drop checker to a light shade of blue....

Would a paintball setup be big enough for a 65g tank? Right now the cost of a full size CO2 tank with a regulator, solenoid, etc. is a bit much.

Where do you all get your paintball tanks refilled? Where I live the only place that even sells tanks is Wally World---let alone refills them. There have been a couple of attempted paintball businesses over the years, but they end up going out of business in a relatively short period of time.


----------



## dzydvl

Tank refill can be done at a lot of places some hobby stores, sporting good stores (dicks, gender mountain), otherwise look in your phone book for gas companies (welding, beverage,) party rental places. Paintball stuff, check ebay, Craigslist, or there have been a few links in this thread. As for a 65 gallon tank, sure you can do it I would buy a spare tank, so you can swap and not have to fill ASAP. I know others will chime in with other info, and they know a lot more than I do. I'm just starting out myself, but this thread is awesome

sent from my phone, because I can't get the internet out in the boonies.


----------



## Jaggedfury

This setup I came up with will work the same way as a standard co2 tank with regulator and etc that runs we'll over a few hundred bucks. It's just that you will have to refill much more often than those 2lb or 5lb + standard co2 tanks. But refill is roughly less than $5 dollars for a Paintball Co2 24oz tank depending on where you take it to.

I believed, your local fire station will refill it for you. Just as if they were refilling standard 2lbs + tanks. I do know that a fire station west of town here, will refill paintball co2 tank if you have a quick fill adapter piece on it to work with the standard tank refilling system nozzle.

I get mines refilled at a local paintball store in town.


----------



## dzydvl

It's good to see there are other nightowls out there, lol

sent from my phone, because I can't get the internet out in the boonies.


----------



## jeremyblevins

Does anyone know where to find a cheap tank? The ones at walmart and everywhere are 29?


----------



## twizzle

jeremyblevins said:


> Does anyone know where to find a cheap tank? The ones at walmart and everywhere are 29?


Hi, The cheapest Paintball co2 tanks that i have found are available on Amazon for around $15 each..Hope this helps.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Try searching yellow pages online for paintball stores in your city. They have to have a few here and there, since your from Florida.


----------



## Cloudfish

Thanks for the responses. The search continues....


----------



## dzydvl

Sorry for the delay in posting, I was waiting to hear back from the manager. He is willing to order as many of the valves as I need, for $11.00 each. With tax it came to $11.61. From what MArk said, as long as the items are in stock (we can verify before we order) they should be available for me to pick up next week. My thought is, I would try and get a count, and place the order on Friday. That way if people are interested, they have two days to get back to me. Once they are in, I will pick them up, and ship them out to the people that are interested. I believe USPS priority flat mail is $6.00 as long as it fits in the box. I don't see any reason it won't fit, but I will stop and check for sure. I'll ask for the price to ship to east coast and west coast.

Jaggedfury, I have to stop at Home Depot tonight, so I will get prices on each item I bought, so we have a rough idea on cost, at least here in WI. 

For the people who sent PM's, I will reply later tonight when I get home, and have the itemized prices. If there is an interest, I would be willing to pick up some needle valves as well, and ship them together. Just let me know, and we can work something out payment wise. I'm just trying to help my fellow PTN members out.


----------



## jeremyblevins

thanks jaggedfury i forgot about telephone books haha.
the cheapest price for a 20 i could find was 22.99 is that about average for them?


----------



## jeremyblevins

dzydvl said:


> Sorry for the delay in posting, I was waiting to hear back from the manager. He is willing to order as many of the valves as I need, for $11.00 each. With tax it came to $11.61. From what MArk said, as long as the items are in stock (we can verify before we order) they should be available for me to pick up next week. My thought is, I would try and get a count, and place the order on Friday. That way if people are interested, they have two days to get back to me. Once they are in, I will pick them up, and ship them out to the people that are interested. I believe USPS priority flat mail is $6.00 as long as it fits in the box. I don't see any reason it won't fit, but I will stop and check for sure. I'll ask for the price to ship to east coast and west coast.
> 
> Jaggedfury, I have to stop at Home Depot tonight, so I will get prices on each item I bought, so we have a rough idea on cost, at least here in WI.
> 
> For the people who sent PM's, I will reply later tonight when I get home, and have the itemized prices. If there is an interest, I would be willing to pick up some needle valves as well, and ship them together. Just let me know, and we can work something out payment wise. I'm just trying to help my fellow PTN members out.


just send me a pm once you know the exact amount i'd love to pick up one of those. roud:


----------



## Jaggedfury

dzydvl said:


> Sorry for the delay in posting, I was waiting to hear back from the manager. He is willing to order as many of the valves as I need, for $11.00 each. With tax it came to $11.61. From what MArk said, as long as the items are in stock (we can verify before we order) they should be available for me to pick up next week. My thought is, I would try and get a count, and place the order on Friday. That way if people are interested, they have two days to get back to me. Once they are in, I will pick them up, and ship them out to the people that are interested. I believe USPS priority flat mail is $6.00 as long as it fits in the box. I don't see any reason it won't fit, but I will stop and check for sure. I'll ask for the price to ship to east coast and west coast.
> 
> Jaggedfury, I have to stop at Home Depot tonight, so I will get prices on each item I bought, so we have a rough idea on cost, at least here in WI.
> 
> For the people who sent PM's, I will reply later tonight when I get home, and have the itemized prices. If there is an interest, I would be willing to pick up some needle valves as well, and ship them together. Just let me know, and we can work something out payment wise. I'm just trying to help my fellow PTN members out.


It's all good. No worries. Take your time. 



> thanks jaggedfury i forgot about telephone books haha.
> the cheapest price for a 20 i could find was 22.99 is that about average for them?


No problem. Just remember yellow pages is now online also.


----------



## jeremyblevins

Oh and jaggadfury if your ever in Orlando and wanna go to the track I'll race you. Haha


----------



## Jaggedfury

jeremyblevins said:


> Oh and jaggadfury if your ever in Orlando and wanna go to the track I'll race you. Haha


Haha, What you rolling in. I have several sport cars and my twin turbos will leave you in the dust 10 + car lenghts behind! Boosting low right now, would like to at least get in the ball part of another 100-120 hp and about 50-70 more torque by the end December.


----------



## jeremyblevins

a got a mustang gt completely forged twin turbo i have two different sizes so i'm pretty much always have boost haha. i don't really pay too much attention to hp/tq anymore. i think i put too much into my car. haha i love having it as a sleeper too. specially when i smoke the cocky sports bikes at a rolling start haha. but i have to say ever since i got my sports bike my car seems boring bikes are so much more fun.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Awesome. Only mustang I like is a 1969 Shelby Eleanor GT500 . I could care less about the rest of the lineups. Come to CA and we can see how this goes. lol.


----------



## Jaggedfury

After seeing a photo of the Burst Disc on the Co2 Paintball tank, I have to state that do make sure the Burst Disc is tighten all the way. I noticed a few members sending me their setups and the Burst Disc varies from one person to another person's setup. 

Only time you should check for tightness of the Burst Disc is when the tank is FULLY empty where all pressure is lost. Or else, it will shoot like crazy when your loosing it/tightening it.

If your cautious of this, you can ask the refill station clerk to check the Burst Disc before you fill up to make the tighten adjustment.


----------



## Capsaicin_MFK

Capsaicin_MFK said:


> Custom Products ASA On/Off valve - $24 shipped on eBay
> Swagelok B-ORM2 Needle valve - $29 shipped from over_stocked
> 1/8" to 1/4" adapter - $2.50
> 3/16" barb fitting - $2.35
> 20oz. paintball tank - FREE


Well, the system works great but the needle valve is tricky to work with when you have a working pressure of around 900psi. I had to purchase a new co2 tank because my old one was 1 year past the hydrotest date and it was more beneficial just to buy a new tank. I am considering attaching another needle valve to the one already on there to REALLY fine tune the BPS.


----------



## dzydvl

Oh yeah, my java fern is bigger than your java fern, lol......


----------



## jeremyblevins

Dzydvl do you have yours hooked up to your tank? How's it working?


----------



## dzydvl

jeremyblevins said:


> Dzydvl do you have yours hooked up to your tank? How's it working?


So far so good, but I just made the switch from DIY last night, so I will get back to you. At first trying to set the needle valve using just the "T" was tough, so I decided to clip a pair of forceps to it, and make the adjustments that way. I was able to make much smaller adjustments having the longer handle. Then when I was done, I took them off.


----------



## jeremyblevins

Should we have to mess with the needle valve once it's set? Just shut the Asa right attach new bottle and slowly open it? Or will it slow down putting out co2 and we have to open the valve slowly to compensate?


----------



## dzydvl

*UPDATED "JAGGEDFURY" DIY PAINTBALL PRICING*

I wanted to put this in it's own post, so the people who are interested see it. I stopped at Home Depot last night, and bought everything I needed to make a new setup (adding one to my 37 gallon), that way I had current prices as well. As I said, I can order more of the tank adapters, I just need to know how many to order. With tax it was $11.61, so I thought that was pretty good. 

Paintball Adapter - $11.00
Needle Valve - $4.99
20' of Vinyl tubing (CO2 safe) $2.69
Teflon Tape - $.99
24 Oz CO2 tank (Dunhams) - $21.99
24 Oz CO2 Fill - (Hobby Town - $4.50

Total - $45.16 ***** I could have found the tank cheaper, but I had a coupon for 15% off******


----------



## dzydvl

jeremyblevins said:


> Should we have to mess with the needle valve once it's set? Just shut the Asa right attach new bottle and slowly open it? Or will it slow down putting out co2 and we have to open the valve slowly to compensate?


I closed mine off entirely, and adjusted them both, but that's just me. I just counted the turns as I closed it that way I knew how far to open it after the tank change. I'm sure you can do it the other way but I will try it out with the new setup, before I hook it up to the tank.


----------



## jeremyblevins

Yeah just have to try it. The worst thing that could happen is it breaks the needle valve. I'll try it when I get mine. Dzydvl just pm your pay pal info and exact price for shipping and everything and I'll pay you as soon as you order them.


----------



## Jaggedfury

dzydvl said:


> *UPDATED "JAGGEDFURY" DIY PAINTBALL PRICING*
> 
> I wanted to put this in it's own post, so the people who are interested see it. I stopped at Home Depot last night, and bought everything I needed to make a new setup (adding one to my 37 gallon), that way I had current prices as well. As I said, I can order more of the tank adapters, I just need to know how many to order. With tax it was $11.61, so I thought that was pretty good.
> 
> Paintball Adapter - $11.00
> Needle Valve - $4.99
> 20' of Vinyl tubing (CO2 safe) $2.69
> Teflon Tape - $.99
> 24 Oz CO2 tank (Dunhams) - $21.99
> 24 Oz CO2 Fill - (Hobby Town - $4.50
> 
> Total - $45.16 ***** I could have found the tank cheaper, but I had a coupon for 15% off******


Awesome. Let me how many people actually orders it. When I started on this thread, I didn't think this setup would be useful to people lol. Very cool that some people are changing over from DIY yeast system to this. 

As far as adjusting the needle valve. I would closed off the needle valve first, then tighten your upper valve on the On/Off ASA Paintball valve ontop which will release all the co2 gas in that chamber, then go ahead and fine tune your needle valve to the right amount of co2 gasing coming out. Remember "Fine Tune" don't mean crank that needle valve "T" arm more than 1/4'' of a turn. If you're releasing the Needle valve arm too much, the co2 air hose will blows off. A tiny little bit of adjustment, goes a long way.

UPDATE: A few weeks and counting... gauge still reads a little well over 800, not quite on the dot of 800psi. But it did drop from 850psi. I maybe looking at a 6 + months before refill ($4.00), for under $50 dollar complete setup or less! Can't beat that! =)


----------



## jeremyblevins

do you have to adjust the needle valve overtime as the co2 depletes from the co2 tank? and also what is that black tubing you used at the beginning of this post? when i start i'm just going to use black silicone but i'm trying to find a nice co2 resistant hose.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Nope, not that I have experienced. I ran it once through an entire full filled co2 paintball tank setup without having to adjust it. I set mines and leave it 24/7. I just leave it til when it's reaches 50psi and I turn it off and remove it. That's what the black hose is for.

I would suggest using a breakoff point at the end of that black co2 hose, that way you can close your needle valve, and shut off the upper valve ontop of the On/Off Valve, and twist off the On/Off Valve for easy refilling. Just makes it easier so you don't have to remove the co2 hose as a complete one unit.
I used the Tee connector from this kit, it pops out fairly easy and the co2 hose will plug into it snugged. No leak there also.









Just a suggestion for easy disconnect of the On/Off Valve while you take only the Paintball Co2 tank for refilling.

The black co2 tubing hose can be bought at your local fish/pet store. Homedepot carries it too, might not be black but it is made for co2 gas passthru safe. They come in clear also.


----------



## dzydvl

I found it in clear 20' for $3.00. I know I only need a few feet, but it's nice to have extra. The chart said it's liquid, chemical, and gas safe.

sent from my phone, because I can't get the internet out in the boonies.


----------



## dzydvl

I'll take a picture in a little while.

sent from my phone, because I can't get the internet out in the boonies.


----------



## jeremyblevins

yeah i have those airline valves your talking about got it for my drip acclimation setup for my shrimp tank. but i was just going to use a check valve as my disconnect point. so i guess you all are just using vinyl then? i was thinking of ordering the clippard or similar tubing made for co2.


----------



## Jaggedfury

I"m using vinyl but it's made for co2 gas chemical so it doesn't rot away. Check valve would work too for a disconnect point.


----------



## happi

*how about this*

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Guerrilla-A...146?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5ad8143b1a

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280574508339&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

am i all set or missing anything?


----------



## Jaggedfury

That second link, the on and off valve might not fit onto the paintball tank. Since it's overseas, I believed they use different thread size or design? I'm not too sure on that, someone link me the same thing, and I had to say the same thing I told you.


----------



## happi

Jaggedfury said:


> That second link, the on and off valve might not fit onto the paintball tank. Since it's overseas, I believed they use different thread size or design? I'm not too sure on that, someone link me the same thing, and I had to say the same thing I told you.


 
what was the thred size again, i forgot. i will ask the seller if i could find out the thread size on that bottle. 

the girl in that pic is beautifull? who is she?


----------



## Jaggedfury

lol She's a popular Korean singer and actress. Her name is Lee Hyori. She's beautiful to me 

Back to the thread, here's the size for the Co2 Paintball Tanks in USA and Canada.









Not sure about Asia and else where.


----------



## happi

he ships to USA as well and i hope that it will fit, because it seems like a good deal.

thanks again


----------



## keithy

happi: 
the thread is 22mm which suggest that it may not fit USA paintball co2 tank.


----------



## jeffvmd

@happi - yep that is a different thread size and will not fit US paintball tanks.
Paintball tanks are much cheaper on amazon($15). I should've searched there before getting some on ebay.


----------



## antbug

is it possible to put a solenoid on one of these sysrems?


----------



## happi

*thanks guys*

could someone please link the stuff i need including the painball tank. it would be really nice of you if you could find the links to the stuff i need before i order something else. 

thanks guys​


----------



## Jaggedfury

dzydvl said:


> *UPDATED "JAGGEDFURY" DIY PAINTBALL PRICING*
> 
> I wanted to put this in it's own post, so the people who are interested see it. I stopped at Home Depot last night, and bought everything I needed to make a new setup (adding one to my 37 gallon), that way I had current prices as well. As I said, I can order more of the tank adapters, I just need to know how many to order. With tax it was $11.61, so I thought that was pretty good.
> 
> Paintball Adapter - $11.00
> Needle Valve - $4.99
> 20' of Vinyl tubing (CO2 safe) $2.69
> Teflon Tape - $.99
> 24 Oz CO2 tank (Dunhams) - $21.99
> 24 Oz CO2 Fill - (Hobby Town - $4.50
> 
> Total - $45.16 ***** I could have found the tank cheaper, but I had a coupon for 15% off******


Message dzydvl, He already has everything needed for the setup and is willing to purchase a few setup to send out to people. Not sure how payment goes so talk to him about it. It might be cheaper to go this route than for you to go piece one together. Save you the trouble.


----------



## Jaggedfury

antbug said:


> is it possible to put a solenoid on one of these sysrems?


I believed it's possible. I don't see why not. At the time of setup, I did look into solenoid but I'm not too familiar with where to find the right size thread. If you want one, its possible. You just have to do your search for a few couplers, reducers and such to make it work with a solenoid being the same size thread.


----------



## dzydvl

Happi, there are links throughout the thread. There are several ways to do this as well. If no one has done it by the time I get home I will. Any Paintball tank that holds CO2 will work. They are sold at most sporting good stores, most people buy 20 or 24oz tanks. The adapter for the tank is sold at Paintball stores. If people want one I'm placing an order, they are 
$11.61 plus shipping. It's the cheapest we have found. As for the tubing, any vinyl tubing that is approved for liquid and gas will work home depot has 20 feet for $3.00. Hope that helps, but if need be I'll add links later tonight. 

sent from my phone, because I can't get the internet out in the boonies.


----------



## antbug

Jaggedfury said:


> I believed it's possible. I don't see why not. At the time of setup, I did look into solenoid but I'm not too familiar with where to find the right size thread. If you want one, its possible. You just have to do your search for a few couplers, reducers and such to make it work with a solenoid being the same size thread.


Do you turn yours off each night?


----------



## Jaggedfury

antbug said:


> Do you turn yours off each night?


Nope, Had it on for 24/7 at 1bps. I know that's not the rule of thumb to go by but I have a drop checker as well. Been running for a few months close to a year now on 2nd refill.

Not using it for high demanding light plants. I have a few Hydrophilia, Java Moss, Java fern, Fissiden Fontanus, Wisteria, Glosso, Anubias plants. But, it would work very well with super heavy planted tanks.


----------



## Noahma

Well I decided that I like this and will give it a try lol. Today I picked up my bottle, and the needle valve, thank god Lowes had it, because home depot's website said that it was not carried in stores, and was not available online. The bottle I picked up from Walmart, they had two sizes in stock, and due to money constraints I grabbed the 9oz. bottle, and will eventually upgrade to the larger tank. 

Now I am in the hunt for the on and off valve, and the pressure gauge


----------



## jeffvmd

antbug said:


> is it possible to put a solenoid on one of these sysrems?





Jaggedfury said:


> I believed it's possible. I don't see why not. At the time of setup, I did look into solenoid but I'm not too familiar with where to find the right size thread. If you want one, its possible. You just have to do your search for a few couplers, reducers and such to make it work with a solenoid being the same size thread.


Solenoid's also have certain pressure ratings.
The solenoids rated for such high pressures are a bit expensive.
It may work but the cost would just defeat the purpose of doing this cheap rig.

Hmmm.. maybe the solenoid can be attached after the needle valve and not directly to the ASA port.

But hey, why put a solenoid in it if it works just fine and the 20oz tank can last 5mos or more on 24/7?


----------



## dzydvl

I wanted to give an update. I haven't ordered the valves yet, I want to give people a chance to decide. That being the case, I would prefer holding off on any payments until I have them in hand to send. That way, if the order is delayed no one thinks I'm trying to scam them. As I said, I'm offering to help people out so we can all save a little cash, its the least I can do, but without Jagged making this thread, we never would have known about trying this. One other thing, I'm trying to figure out how to get more room for pm's, I only get 25, so if my box is full please post in here. I do check this all the time. 
I would like to order on Monday, so anyone interested let me know. I'm able to order as many as I need, the owner is pretty cool, and for $11 not a bad deal.


----------



## dzydvl

Noahma said:


> Well I decided that I like this and will give it a try lol. Today I picked up my bottle, and the needle valve, thank god Lowes had it, because home depot's website said that it was not carried in stores, and was not available online. The bottle I picked up from Walmart, they had two sizes in stock, and due to money constraints I grabbed the 9oz. bottle, and will eventually upgrade to the larger tank.
> 
> Now I am in the hunt for the on and off valve, and the pressure gauge


I'm ordering a bunch of them if you are interested. There are pics and info is in the last two pages. Price is $11 plus shipping. 

sent from my phone, because I can't get the internet out in the boonies.


----------



## Noahma

dzydvl said:


> I'm ordering a bunch of them if you are interested. There are pics and info is in the last two pages. Price is $11 plus shipping.
> 
> sent from my phone, because I can't get the internet out in the boonies.


I would be very interested, I will send you a PM so you can let me know when your able to get a hold of some.

lol your inbox is full at the moment.


----------



## Jaggedfury

In order to have more PM's, I think you need to pay a certain fee to this website. Maybe someone can chime in on this. Anyways, if someone is really interested in putting a solenoid to this, by all means give it a try and it's fine to post it here also. Like Jeff said, it maybe work perfectly or it maynot, due to the solenoids having certain pressure rating to operate. This is the stuff that I don't know about, so I really don't want to get into the solenoid thing.

Yepp.


----------



## happi

your inbox is full my friend, i need to order everything beside co2 tank, tubing and needle valve. i hope lowes have the needle valve.


----------



## Noahma

happi said:


> your inbox is full my friend, i need to order everything beside co2 tank, tubing and needle valve. i hope lowes have the needle valve.


They should have the needle valve, I picked mine up just a few hours ago at our local Lowes. it was priced at 5.99


----------



## Jaggedfury

Lowes and Homedepot should have it. The websites I linked you guys says unavailable, it's referring to my state also. But, they do carry it. Where I live, there's like 8 Home Depots and 6 Lowes within a 15 mile radius lol. If it's not a hassle for you, go to the store and go straight to plumbing department and find where they hang all those little brass and pvc couplers threads and the needle valve should be hung there also.


----------



## happi

Jaggedfury said:


> Lowes and Homedepot should have it. The websites I linked you guys says unavailable, it's referring to my state also. But, they do carry it. Where I live, there's like 8 Home Depots and 6 Lowes within a 15 mile radius lol. If it's not a hassle for you, go to the store and go straight to plumbing department and find where they hang all those little brass and pvc couplers threads and the needle valve should be hung there also.


 
i guess i will go there on monday, i suppose to be sleeping rite now because i gota go to work early. but what can i say i love planted tanks and too exicited to make a co2 setup for my nano tank. 

anyway is your guys petsmart getting rid of floutite plant substrate, because i just picked 10 bags $5 each and they are 15.4lb each.
wonder if they are doing this in all the petsmarts.


----------



## Noahma

happi said:


> i guess i will go there on monday, i suppose to be sleeping rite now because i gota go to work early. but what can i say i love planted tanks and too exicited to make a co2 setup for my nano tank.
> 
> anyway is your guys petsmart getting rid of floutite plant substrate, because i just picked 10 bags $5 each and they are 15.4lb each.
> wonder if they are doing this in all the petsmarts.


Not sure, I know our petco did, they were not selling enough of it. 

There are a couple needle valves stocked at Lowes, remember the part number is A-4 it will have a pink band on the top of the package, and will be in with the rest of the compression valves.


----------



## Sundance2010

Does one have to use hose specify for CO2 or will any air line do?


----------



## dzydvl

I would recommend hose made for CO2. That way you don't have any adverse reactions. Airline will work, but will need replacing over time. Home Depot sells it for $3.00 for 20 feet.

I'm working on the PM issue. I guess if I make a donation I can increase my PM size.


----------



## Jaggedfury

I was at petsmart no more 3-4 days ago, Didn't noticed anything substrate on sale. I did purchase a mystery snail lol. Do go and check Lowes and Homedepot in person, pretty sure they will carry it. Just remember Plumbing isle, fittings and valves of brass and pvc on a "display" wall.

I would opt to get the co2 hose, it's $2.69 for 20 feet of it. That should be more than enough. But you need to get the next bigger size up air line from the standard air lines that majority of people are using for air pumps or it won't fit tight inside the Needle valve.


----------



## dzydvl

PM issues resolved. Anyone who tried to send a PM, please try again. I'm now a bronze member


----------



## dzydvl

Jaggedfury said:


> In order to have more PM's, I think you need to pay a certain fee to this website. Maybe someone can chime in on this. Anyways, if someone is really interested in putting a solenoid to this, by all means give it a try and it's fine to post it here also. Like Jeff said, it maybe work perfectly or it maynot, due to the solenoids having certain pressure rating to operate. This is the stuff that I don't know about, so I really don't want to get into the solenoid thing.
> 
> Yepp.


I'm going to order one and give it a try. I'll let people know.


----------



## happi

hey are you getting some stuff for me also


----------



## dzydvl

happi said:


> hey are you getting some stuff for me also


I sent you a PM, didn't you get it??? I have you on the list of people to order for.

I should have clarified my other post. I was talking about getting a solenoid. Sorry about that.


----------



## jeremyblevins

just wanna make sure am i on the list i haven't gotten a pm but i posted on here when you first asked?


----------



## dzydvl

Some people asked for pictures of the setup I priced out. I posted this before, but it was a few pages back. Here's the link to the actual website, and the valve information.

http://www.trinitypaintball.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=TR+659





dzydvl said:


>


----------



## dzydvl

jeremyblevins said:


> just wanna make sure am i on the list i haven't gotten a pm but i posted on here when you first asked?


Yes you are....


----------



## happi

thanks bro, thanks for posting the picture now i cant wait until i get this stuff because my plants are not doing well in my nano tank.


----------



## Sundance2010

dzydvl said:


> I would recommend hose made for CO2. That way you don't have any adverse reactions. Airline will work, but will need replacing over time. Home Depot sells it for $3.00 for 20 feet.



I'm heading off to HD, will see what they have. Will the silicone air hose work OK as well?


----------



## dzydvl

If your going to HD, here's the number from the tag

Watts - SVEB20
42143220
55 PSI at 70F

Clear Vinyl Tubing
1/4" x .170" x 20 ft
OD ID


----------



## Sundance2010

dzydvl said:


> If your going to HD, here's the number from the tag
> 
> Watts - SVEB20
> 42143220
> 55 PSI at 70F
> 
> *Clear Vinyl Tubing*
> 1/4" x .170" x 20 ft
> OD ID



Isn't this basically standard airline?


----------



## dzydvl

This one is liquid, chemical, and gas safe. And cheap

sent from my phone, because I can't get the internet out in the boonies.


----------



## Noahma

dzydvl said:


> Some people asked for pictures of the setup I priced out. I posted this before, but it was a few pages back. Here's the link to the actual website, and the valve information.
> 
> http://www.trinitypaintball.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=TR+659


looks Awesome, cant wait.


----------



## dzydvl

OK, I wanted to answer a few questions I keep getting via PM. That way if anyone else is interested they can just look here for the information.

First off I have not placed the order yet, I'm still leaving it open to anyone who may be interested, but I think I will call it quite on Tuesday. That way the weekday crowd can still get in. I'm sure if it came to it, I could get more in the future, so if you can't get it this time, I will see what I can do.

Second. I looked up pricing for shipping. I don't see any reason this will not fit in the standard priority box from the post office, but I will pick one up and verify for everyone. My goal is to use the smallest box possible to save a little more money.

If you are interested in finding a rough estimate on price click this link.http://postcalc.usps.gov/Default.aspx. Just type in my zip code 53594, and your zip code. Pick a date, I used 10/22/2010. Select Priority mail small flat rate box. and you will get a table with the prices. It looks to be around $5.00 for shipping to 90210, CA, with a 2 day delivery time. If you want it quicker, I can do that, but you can see the price jumps up quite a bit.

Third - If you only want the valve, that's cool with me. Some people want a complete setup, so I wanted to give people that option, but it's not a requirement. As I said, I'm just trying to help out, since a lot of people have helped me.

Payments - My plan for payment is this. I'm going to place the order, and once it comes in, pay for it all and pick it up. Then I will calculate the shipping cost and the total for each order and send you a message. At that time you can send me the money. I'm doing it this way in the event something major happens and the order falls through, no one is out any money, and most of all, everyone is protected. I know I'm taking a small risk here, so please do me the courtesy, if you don't think you can pay for it, please don't order. I'm the type of person that believes good deeds come back around, and Karma can be a real BitC#, but I hope this is cool with everyone.

OK, I'm shutting up now, in case people don't want to look, here's the parts and prices one more time.

*UPDATED "JAGGEDFURY" DIY PAINTBALL PRICING*


Trinity Paintball Adapter - $11.00 (see pictures above)
Needle Valve - $4.99
20' of Vinyl tubing (CO2 safe) $2.69
Teflon Tape - $.99
24 Oz CO2 tank (Dunhams) - $21.99 (Due to shipping restrictions, I would prefer not to send anyone tanks, I hope you understand)
24 Oz CO2 Fill - (Hobby Town - $4.50)

Shipping - $5.00 - Or close to it

Total - $50.16 ***** I could have found the tank cheaper, but I had a coupon for 15% off******


----------



## jeremyblevins

ahh i'm jealous of that co2 tank price. the cheapest i could find locally 22.99 for 20 oz


----------



## Jaggedfury

dzydvl said:


> OK, I wanted to answer a few questions I keep getting via PM. That way if anyone else is interested they can just look here for the information.
> 
> First off I have not placed the order yet, I'm still leaving it open to anyone who may be interested, but I think I will call it quite on Tuesday. That way the weekday crowd can still get in. I'm sure if it came to it, I could get more in the future, so if you can't get it this time, I will see what I can do.
> 
> Second. I looked up pricing for shipping. I don't see any reason this will not fit in the standard priority box from the post office, but I will pick one up and verify for everyone. My goal is to use the smallest box possible to save a little more money.
> 
> If you are interested in finding a rough estimate on price click this link.http://postcalc.usps.gov/Default.aspx. Just type in my zip code 53594, and your zip code. Pick a date, I used 10/22/2010. Select Priority mail small flat rate box. and you will get a table with the prices. It looks to be around $5.00 for shipping to 90210, CA, with a 2 day delivery time. If you want it quicker, I can do that, but you can see the price jumps up quite a bit.
> 
> Third - If you only want the valve, that's cool with me. Some people want a complete setup, so I wanted to give people that option, but it's not a requirement. As I said, I'm just trying to help out, since a lot of people have helped me.
> 
> Payments - My plan for payment is this. I'm going to place the order, and once it comes in, pay for it all and pick it up. Then I will calculate the shipping cost and the total for each order and send you a message. At that time you can send me the money. I'm doing it this way in the event something major happens and the order falls through, no one is out any money, and most of all, everyone is protected. I know I'm taking a small risk here, so please do me the courtesy, if you don't think you can pay for it, please don't order. I'm the type of person that believes good deeds come back around, and Karma can be a real BitC#, but I hope this is cool with everyone.
> 
> OK, I'm shutting up now, in case people don't want to look, here's the parts and prices one more time.
> 
> *UPDATED "JAGGEDFURY" DIY PAINTBALL PRICING*
> 
> 
> Trinity Paintball Adapter - $11.00 (see pictures above)
> Needle Valve - $4.99
> 20' of Vinyl tubing (CO2 safe) $2.69
> Teflon Tape - $.99
> 24 Oz CO2 tank (Dunhams) - $21.99 (Due to shipping restrictions, I would prefer not to send anyone tanks, I hope you understand)
> 24 Oz CO2 Fill - (Hobby Town - $4.50)
> 
> Shipping - $5.00 - Or close to it
> 
> Total - $50.16 ***** I could have found the tank cheaper, but I had a coupon for 15% off******


Awesome work. Do I get $1 dollar for every setup you sell to members here? LOL just kidding. Props to you for dealing with this. I've been getting alot of PM also about oversea weird looking on and off valves. I hope this clears alot of interested people's question on the oversea on/off valves.


----------



## dzydvl

Jaggedfury said:


> Awesome work. Do I get $1 dollar for every setup you sell to members here? LOL just kidding. Props to you for dealing with this. I've been getting alot of PM also about oversea weird looking on and off valves. I hope this clears alot of interested people's question on the oversea on/off valves.


That's only fair, I was thinking 50% of every dollar I make..... 

sent from my phone, because I can't get the internet out in the boonies.


----------



## dzydvl

Now what is 50% of the satisfaction of helping your fellow PTN brethren(sisterren)? I didn't want to offend the ladies here by leaving them out. J/K, seriously if there was money to be made it would only be fair to split it since you started this whole craze, lol...

sent from my phone, because I can't get the internet out in the boonies.


----------



## jeremyblevins

well i plan on sending you a little extra for your time  as much as i can atleast haha


----------



## Jaggedfury

lol, I was just joking. Teflon tape at Harbor freight is .29 cent a roll! I've seen it today when I went to go buy gloves to work on cars! I didn't care to buy it though, just a heads up if your trying to save some cents!


----------



## dzydvl

Jaggedfury said:


> lol, I was just joking. Teflon tape at Harbor freight is .29 cent a roll! I've seen it today when I went to go buy gloves to work on cars! I didn't care to buy it though, just a heads up if your trying to save some cents!


I know you are kidding, its all good.. I know sarcasm is hard to distinguishe via the interwebnet.. thanks for the tip, I wonder what shipping would cost.... LOL


sent from my phone, because I can't get the internet out in the boonies.


----------



## happi

there was this one DIY co2 in my mind for a while, i wonder if anyone else thought of it. this method is to use the old yeast/sugar and water mix in the bottle but this time you can shut of the co2.

but here is my idea (i havent tried it yet). 

you will need:

bottle (this cant explode)

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Danskin-Now-Aluminum-Water-Bottle-Blue/11969613?findingMethod=rr

check valve for on/off and the tubing ofcourse.

something to drill the hole in bottle cap for the check valve to tightly fit and something to make it leak free, i think gluing it might be best.

the rest is simple, you know what to do. i dont think that anything should explode, but i cant promise. if anyone is intersted to try this please share your opinions.


----------



## ddtran46

happi said:


> there was this one DIY co2 in my mind for a while, i wonder if anyone else thought of it. this method is to use the old yeast/sugar and water mix in the bottle but this time you can shut of the co2.
> 
> but here is my idea (i havent tried it yet).
> 
> you will need:
> 
> bottle (this cant explode)
> 
> http://www.walmart.com/ip/Danskin-Now-Aluminum-Water-Bottle-Blue/11969613?findingMethod=rr
> 
> check valve for on/off and the tubing ofcourse.
> 
> something to drill the hole in bottle cap for the check valve to tightly fit and something to make it leak free, i think gluing it might be best.
> 
> the rest is simple, you know what to do. i dont think that anything should explode, but i cant promise. if anyone is intersted to try this please share your opinions.


I did this for my Mini S couple months ago. I got this idea from another member.


----------



## happi

could you please post a picture of that setup and whatever you have used to make it. 

how well did this work for you? how long did it last?

many members could take benefits from this, please start a new thread related to this topic, unless you want to continue this in this same thread. i hope its ok for you to share this with us

thanks


----------



## ddtran46

Here is the thread:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/planted-nano-tanks/111755-diy-canister-nano-tanks.html

It works pretty well actually. I think it lasts for about 2-4 weeks. I stopped using it after I got pressurized co2.


----------



## dzydvl

***********LAST CALL!!!!!!!!!********

Well, the requests have slowed down, so I think it's about time to put this bad boy to rest. I will be placing the order tomorrow (Wednesday October 20th) so if you are still on the fence, you still have a little time to decide. Since there was some confusion in the beginning (mostly due to the limited size of my PM box) I will post a list of the people who have confirmed an order with me. That way if I missed anyone, we can get them added.

Thanks again 

Bill​


----------



## lovemmth

First of all great thread all. I just got finished ordering all remaining parts needed ( asa and guage) I have the valve ,hose,airline and tank. Currently I am using a diy system and injecting into my intake of my hob filter (aquaclear)with not noise issues. Will it be ok to do the same with the new system and what is everyone using for a bubble counter? currently I am not using one. 20 gallon tank


----------



## Jaggedfury

There should be nothing different than using this setup with your current mode of injecting co2 gas into the tank. I"m using a ceramic glass disc diffuser with a built in spiral bubble counter.


----------



## lovemmth

Thanks so I should atleast use a bubble counter? I currently dont know the amount of co2 going into the tank but keep injecting into the filter?


----------



## dzydvl

I'm using a small juice bottle with two hoses and some water in it. The inlet hose runs underwater and bubbles. The secondary tube runs to the filter inlet. Nice, cheap, and it also served as a stop gap on my DIY system

sent from my phone, because I can't get the internet out in the boonies.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Bubble counter really doesn't tell you the right amount of co2 in the tank, whether it's 1bps to 6bps, I would still get a drop checker down the line.


----------



## dzydvl

Jaggedfury said:


> Bubble counter really doesn't tell you the right amount of co2 in the tank, whether it's 1bps to 6bps, I would still get a drop checker down the line.


I concur.


sent from my phone, because I can't get the internet out in the boonies.


----------



## dzydvl

dzydvl said:


> ***********LAST CALL!!!!!!!!!********
> 
> Well, the requests have slowed down, so I think it's about time to put this bad boy to rest. I will be placing the order tomorrow (Wednesday October 20th) so if you are still on the fence, you still have a little time to decide. Since there was some confusion in the beginning (mostly due to the limited size of my PM box) I will post a list of the people who have confirmed an order with me. That way if I missed anyone, we can get them added.
> 
> Thanks again
> 
> Bill​


Due to some personal issues I'm going to extend the order deadline till tonight. I won't be able to place the order till tomorrow am. I do apologize, but if anyone would prefer to cancel their order, just let me know. I don't like to say I'm going to do something then not do it, but in this case I didn't have any choice. I hope you all understand.


----------



## Jaggedfury

A few days into starting this thread, I went and removed a huge chuck of Glosso foreground plants from one of my tanks. The size was enough to fit a 10''x12'' aluminum baking pan. Which I gave away free. Just today that area regrew itself and covered the place again. Co2 helps alot  Check out the photos!

After removing huge chuck of Glosso









The 10x12'' Aluminum Baking Pan full of Glosso









Shrimps didn't seem bothered by it. They enjoyed the cloudy murky water lol









Shrimps dining above the old substrate where Glosso carpet used to be on









As of today 10/20/10 co2 reads a little hairline below 800psi.









Current photo of the tank co2 paintball being used in. Notice the Glosso grew back fast!

















Just want to state that this setup works very well. I am pleased with it. So in conclusion, go rig up one of two of these bad boys!


----------



## jeremyblevins

very beautiful looking tank you got there makes my 55 gallon look pathetic. haha
has that glosso already been spoken for if not i'd be interested in taking it off your hands for you 
nevermind i just noticed that you gave it away i thought you removed another portion haha my bad


----------



## Jaggedfury

Thanks! Just showing you that the co2 paintball does work in promoting fast than usual growth!


----------



## Noahma

dzydvl said:


> Due to some personal issues I'm going to extend the order deadline till tonight. I won't be able to place the order till tomorrow am. I do apologize, but if anyone would prefer to cancel their order, just let me know. I don't like to say I'm going to do something then not do it, but in this case I didn't have any choice. I hope you all understand.


Fully understand, and I am still looking forward to purchasing from ya.


----------



## TeamTeal

wow that is fast!


----------



## happi

i guess the waiting is over. could you please make a list of the people who are buying it.


----------



## TheFishJunky

very good DIY!


----------



## digglers1288

Noahma said:


> Fully understand, and I am still looking forward to purchasing from ya.


+1 and thanks again for setting this up *dzydvl*. Much appreciated.


----------



## dzydvl

Here's the list of people who have contacted me, and requested either a valve or the entire set. If you would like to make any changes just let me know. I'm not going to pick up the needle valves until the ADA valves come in, so there is still some time to change your mind. I'm planning on ordering over lunch, so keep that in mind if you are still on the fence. If you don't see your name, and were interested, just let me know. Initially I had PM issues, and several didn't go through. I did my best to check the thread, but I'm sure I missed a name or two. Please don't take it personally.

***** CO2 Adapter List *****

DDTRAN46 - Set
Noahma
JeffVMD
Jeremyblevins
Happi - Set
Mofiki - Set (x2)
Sunnysmom - Set
Noodleman - Set
R33GTR (x2)
Digglers1288 - set
Gotcheaprice - Set


----------



## jeremyblevins

I don't need the set I already have the needle valve just the Asa and gauge. Thanks buddy. roud:


----------



## dzydvl

jeremyblevins said:


> I don't need the set I already have the needle valve just the Asa and gauge. Thanks buddy. roud:


 sounds good, change made...



sent from my phone, because I can't get the internet out in the boonies.


----------



## ddtran46

Cool. Just lmk whenever I need to pay you.

How often do you guys adjust the needle valve?


----------



## gotcheaprice

Hey, should've check this thread cause I didn't get a PM, thought you didn't get it yet, haha.
But thanks for putting me on the list, my "set" doesn't include the paintball canister right? Just the other stuff? 
Thanks!


----------



## Jaggedfury

ddtran46 said:


> Cool. Just lmk whenever I need to pay you.
> 
> How often do you guys adjust the needle valve?


On mines, I just set it and leave it. The main shrimp tank is in my Master Bed room and I would at least glance at it once a day. The last time I took off the on/off valve was for picture purposes on 9/22. Took a quick 10 second to reset it and left it since then. Haven't touched it. Yesterday, picked up the co2 tank while it's running and snap some photos of the gauge and some before and after shot of my shrimp tank after removing glosso. Moving the co2 paintball tank doesn't alter any bit of the co2 pressure coming into the tank. Set it and leave it. roud:


----------



## R33 GTR

i very exited to get my 2 adapter jejejeje


----------



## noodleman

yay, can't wait to set up my tank with this!


----------



## dzydvl

gotcheaprice said:


> Hey, should've check this thread cause I didn't get a PM, thought you didn't get it yet, haha.
> But thanks for putting me on the list, my "set" doesn't include the paintball canister right? Just the other stuff?
> Thanks!


 no co2 tank. I just put that on their for price comparing. I didn't want the extra headache by shipping co2.



sent from my phone, because I can't get the internet out in the boonies.


----------



## gotcheaprice

dzydvl said:


> no co2 tank. I just put that on their for price comparing. I didn't want the extra headache by shipping co2.
> 
> 
> 
> sent from my phone, because I can't get the internet out in the boonies.


Alright, sounds good. Where/when should we send payments?


----------



## Wicket_lfe

noodleman said:


> yay, can't wait to set up my tank with this!


Where do you get your tank filled?


----------



## NickS

Can these paintball tanks be refilled if you've used teflon tape on the tank itself? Mine was leaking where the on/off valve connects to the tank.

I'm sure I can scrape it all off if I have to but is there an alternative to teflon tape if using it at this joint is a no-no?


----------



## happi

hey Bill (dzydvl)

did you already order the stuff or no, if not then i would like to make it 2 set, instead of 1. please let me know, thanks


----------



## happi

quick question, i never used the small co2 tank before. anyway i bought 6 of 20oz full c02 cylinder for $40 and right where the cap sit on the top of the cylinder it says AS 0509, does that mean i dont have to hydrotest it for another 4 1/2 years. please let me know.

thanks


----------



## noodleman

Wicket_lfe said:


> Where do you get your tank filled?


there's a paintball shop out in brooklyn called stingray paintball


----------



## Wicket_lfe

noodleman said:


> there's a paintball shop out in brooklyn called stingray paintball


Thanks, going to try to get this setup this weekend by hitting up some stores on LI.


----------



## Chafire

NickS said:


> Can these paintball tanks be refilled if you've used teflon tape on the tank itself? Mine was leaking where the on/off valve connects to the tank.
> 
> I'm sure I can scrape it all off if I have to but is there an alternative to teflon tape if using it at this joint is a no-no?


Have you checked or replaced the O-ring above the threads on the Co2 bottle. It gets worn out over time and should be replaced. It's pretty cheap to buy lots of 100 on ebay. Otherwise teflon on the threads shouldn't be a problem just try to remove it all before you bring it to get filled.


----------



## NickS

Chafire said:


> Have you checked or replaced the O-ring above the threads on the Co2 bottle. It gets worn out over time and should be replaced. It's pretty cheap to buy lots of 100 on ebay. Otherwise teflon on the threads shouldn't be a problem just try to remove it all before you bring it to get filled.


The thing is brand new, I didn't think it would need anything replaced...

Thanks though, once I get it refilled I'll check that out and buy some replacements to have handy.


----------



## gaga43

NickS said:


> The thing is brand new, I didn't think it would need anything replaced...
> 
> Thanks though, once I get it refilled I'll check that out and buy some replacements to have handy.


 the o-rings are easily split when threaded into something... you could split one evey time you skrew it in or you could never have to change it... always depends and the factory has to test the bottle they probably accidently cut it and didn't replace it


----------



## happi

Jaggedfury said:


> I haven't use that before. I'm sure it would be great but I'm the wront person to ask about those unit. I haven't had any experiences with it.


i have that regulator and it simply sucks. spend extra money to get something better please.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Yepp, double check the O ring. I mentioned that in earlier post page if your experiencing leak from the connection point of the On/Off valve to the co2 paintball tank.

As far as that 0509 date, I'm not sure. Ask your refill station when you take it in.


----------



## happi

could anyone please answer some of my questions, i feel like am being ignored.


----------



## Jaggedfury

happi said:


> quick question, i never used the small co2 tank before. anyway i bought 6 of 20oz full c02 cylinder for $40 and right where the cap sit on the top of the cylinder it says AS 0509, does that mean i dont have to hydrotest it for another 4 1/2 years. please let me know.
> 
> thanks


According to information searched.
*
**CO2 tanks:* *2 inches or less in diameter and less than 2 feet long, do not need to be tested.* This is a DOT Rule. These CO2 bottles usually have a 1800 psi limit. Greater than 2 inches in diameter must be tested every 5 years. These bottles are not fiber wrapped. These are considered high pressure.

AS 0509, means it was tested in May of 2009. You are good until May of 2014. In some paintball stores, when it comes close to that Hydro-testing date, they would swap your tank for another tank that's already hydro-tested with the same capacity size. 20z will get you a 20z back. It won't be your exact same tank. It will be used as far as the tank goes.


Was that one of your questions?


----------



## happi

Jaggedfury said:


> According to information searched.
> 
> *CO2 tanks:* *2 inches or less in diameter and less than 2 feet long, do not need to be tested.* This is a DOT Rule. These CO2 bottles usually have a 1800 psi limit. Greater than 2 inches in diameter must be tested every 5 years. These bottles are not fiber wrapped. These are considered high pressure.
> 
> AS 0509, means it was tested in May of 2009. You are good until May of 2014. In some paintball stores, when it comes close to that Hydro-testing date, they would swap your tank for another tank that's already hydro-tested with the same capacity size. 20z will get you a 20z back. It won't be your exact same tank. It will be used as far as the tank goes.
> 
> 
> Was that your question?


yes thank you, i got 6 of 20oz tanks and i wonder if they will fit with the stuff i ordered from BILL. 

looks like this is what i got:
http://www.compulsivepaintball.com/product.asp?ic=16922


----------



## Jaggedfury

Yepp, that will work. Any 9oz to 24oz paintball co2 tank will work. Any smaller than 9oz wouldn't work as the input thread won't fit on the On/Off Valve. Any higher than 24oz will result in being Air tanks which is totally different than C02 tanks. Stay within the 9oz to 24oz and you should be good.

Keep in mind there's no need to buy NEW paintball co2 tanks. Depending on where you refill your co2 tank, and how lazy the paintball store employee is... he/she might just take your paintball tank and switch it with one that's already refilled. I've seen it happened before. Not with one of my tanks personally.


----------



## Jaggedfury

You guys might want to check out your local paintball stores in town. I was at party with some friends of mines and one happens to be in a paintball team. I told him about my co2 setup with the paintball tanks and he was pretty amazed at it. He also told me that paintball sport tends to be super slow in the fall and winter seasons when it rains and snow. He also stated that paintball stores have special sales at this time to reduce new inventory coming in as early as first 2 weeks of Spring. Paintball tanks are on the top list of being reduced along with other parts. So visiting your local paintball stores might knock off a few dollars for your co2 paintball tank and on/off valve as well. Just a conversation that occurred this late afternoon with a buddy of mines, just thought I share it with you guys who are buying locally.


----------



## dzydvl

Jaggedfury said:


> You guys might want to check out your local paintball stores in town. I was at party with some friends of mines and one happens to be in a paintball team. I told him about my co2 setup with the paintball tanks and he was pretty amazed at it. He also told me that paintball sport tends to be super slow in the fall and winter seasons when it rains and snow. He also stated that paintball stores have special sales at this time to reduce new inventory coming in as early as first 2 weeks of Spring. Paintball tanks are on the top list of being reduced along with other parts. So visiting your local paintball stores might knock off a few dollars for your co2 paintball tank and on/off valve as well. Just a conversation that occurred this late afternoon with a buddy of mines, just thought I share it with you guys who are buying locally.


 very cool, I want to pick up two more tanks. 

I'm still waiting on a solenoid to test it out, I don't want to buy an expensive one in case it doesn't work.



sent from my phone, because I can't get the internet out in the boonies.


----------



## Jaggedfury

dzydvl said:


> very cool, I want to pick up two more tanks.
> 
> I'm still waiting on a solenoid to test it out, I don't want to buy an expensive one in case it doesn't work.
> 
> 
> 
> sent from my phone, because I can't get the internet out in the boonies.


Keep in mind when purchasing Solenoids, they are rated at different low and high pressure. I'm not sure how many pressure but that's something to take consideration of. Too high, might now make it work with the 850 psi at full from the paintball co2 tank. Too low, probably won't even tiger it to open. Do your research on the Solenoid's pressure before you go and buy it. I have not yet test any Solenoid on this rig, so I could not help you in any way. But if you managed to find one that will work, do post it up and share with everyone here.


----------



## Wicket_lfe

just bought all my parts today but doesnt seem like my on/off or my valve seem to close completely. time for some tinkering.


----------



## dzydvl

Jagged,

Thanks for the heads up, I'm just tinkering right now, so we will see what comes out of it. If I find anything useful I will be sure to post it.


----------



## Wicket_lfe

done and done, fast easy and tested. thanks for this post!


----------



## Jaggedfury

No problem. Looks awesome.


----------



## NickS

Make sure you tape and tighten down that nut on the adjustment knob!! It's not even screwed down in that pic...


----------



## Wicket_lfe

i havent tightened it yet, but it doesnt leak from there. ill keep it in mind though. thanks


----------



## oaomcg

i've been using my rig for 2 weeks now and it is AWESOME
i'm so glad you shared with us how to do this
i thought i was going to have to spend a ton of cash to get a pressurized system but i got this built for about 60 bucks
my 24 oz tank has been on 24/7 for 2 weeks and is still above 800psi. i don't anticipate having to refill for quite a while.

i've also confirmed (by accident) that an ETD shouldn't be an issue for me. if the pressure gets too high the hose separates from my homemade bubble counter and gases the inside of my cabinet rather than my tank

thanks again!


----------



## Noahma

dzydvl, were you able to place the order?


----------



## Jaggedfury

Awesome. No problem! Keep in mind the pressure drop varies on how many bubbles per second you're using. You should be expecting 5-6 months if your using 1-3 bubbles per second.


----------



## Burks

Darn I missed out on the order. If you have any extra sets (minus tank), let me know. Been wanting to use CO2 for a long time. I think this will solve my issue once and for all in my 40g breeder.....stupid algae.


----------



## dzydvl

*****Paintball Valve Update*****

I wanted to give you guys an update, but it's an update you may not want to hear. I placed the order last Friday with Alienman paintball (local paintball store). Early this afternoon I was left a message that the valves are currently on back order with the manufacturer. Mark is going to find out how long we are looking at, and I should know tomorrow. I'm also working with him to see if there is a valve (with a gauge) we can substitute for the same price. I won't have that information till tomorrow. As soon as I know something I will post it. I apologize to everyone I know this may cause some issues. If you would prefer to cancel your order request, I do understand. 

Bill


----------



## g33tar

Jaggedfury said:


> You should be expecting 5-6 months if your using 1-3 bubbles per second.


I will paypal you $5 every month over 4 months this works. Mines still going strong. If this lasts for 5 months I will be so impressed.


----------



## Jaggedfury

g33tar said:


> I will paypal you $5 every month over 4 months this works. Mines still going strong. If this lasts for 5 months I will be so impressed.


:biggrin: We'll take in consideration when this post was made. It's been well over 1 month and a few days... and my gauge is at a hairline below 800psi. At full, it was at 850psi. I know there's other consideration to take in effect such as room temperature and so fort. I based this on a 50psi reduction increment.

1 month and a few days have pass resulted a little over 50psi drop. (Not counting 2-3 times shut it off and remove On/Off Valve for picture purpose to clear things up on this thread)

Estimate..

50psi used = 1 month at 1bps. 850psi divided by 50psi = 17 times.

At 17 times, I'm confident to say it will last way past 5 months into the 6 month range and even more!

I would like everyone who made this setup to keep track of when they started their setup, bubbles per minute, what size paintball tank and see how long it last! I've been using 1bps, someone should try 2bps and 3bps base on their planted tank and see how long it last.


----------



## Capsaicin_MFK

I started my co2 without any means to record BPS/BPM. I just have it set to turn my drop checker green. 24 oz tank on a 55g....let's see how long it lasts.

If I get 4-5 months of use I will be very happy with this setup. I bought 2 tanks to be well prepared.


----------



## codegono

This thread is fantastic!!!!!!!!!!! 

Thanks to all of you involved in making the hobby inexpensive and fun!!!!!


----------



## Jaggedfury

New member? COOL!!! 

We'll as long as keeping track of how many months per size bottle would be fine.


----------



## NickS

Has anyone considered this as an alternative to what we're doing here?

It seems like a decent price and is practically identical what we're doing from what I can tell.

One of the reasons I ask is because I was looking at getting the swagelok needle valve to replace the Watts A-41 I have because I cannot get a consistent bubble rate. With the swagelok costing around $30, it almost seems like I should just get this "Single CO2 Controller" as they call it. If the "industrial grade needle valve" stands up to their description of it, this setup looks pretty good.

Anyone have experience with this product?


----------



## Jaggedfury

Try it and let me know. At the beginning of this, I 100% sure I did see that "Single CO2 Controller for Paint Ball" Regulator when browsing around learning about co2 system for planted tank. I just passed it up just because I prefer to get things locally. Must see, make sure it work type of person. But if you do go through with purchasing this, do list the pros and cons of this. Greatly appreciated.


----------



## Noahma

Is this the same regulator? I was just doing some searching around. 

http://www.rockstartactical.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=trin-fill-g&CartID=1

And is this the official name of the part we need? I am going out Thursday to take a look around the local stores.


----------



## Jaggedfury

That would definitely work. The Official name would be called " On/Off ASA Valve". It's not actually a Regulator, I had ask the paintball store this the first time I pieced this together and the guy was a bit confused to what I asked. Although it does regulate air, its not a regulator. You can ask to check for both and see the difference is. But I would refer to it as "On/Off ASA Valve".


----------



## Noahma

Great! thank you Jaggedfury, I will see what I can find on Thursday. I am starting to get a small algae outbreak on my 10g. and the fish really do like daylight lol.


----------



## fauxjargon

Jaggedfury said:


> :biggrin: We'll take in consideration when this post was made. It's been well over 1 month and a few days... and my gauge is at a hairline below 800psi. At full, it was at 850psi. I know there's other consideration to take in effect such as room temperature and so fort. I based this on a 50psi reduction increment.
> 
> 1 month and a few days have pass resulted a little over 50psi drop. (Not counting 2-3 times shut it off and remove On/Off Valve for picture purpose to clear things up on this thread)
> 
> Estimate..
> 
> 50psi used = 1 month at 1bps. 850psi divided by 50psi = 17 times.
> 
> At 17 times, I'm confident to say it will last way past 5 months into the 6 month range and even more!
> 
> I would like everyone who made this setup to keep track of when they started their setup, bubbles per minute, what size paintball tank and see how long it last! I've been using 1bps, someone should try 2bps and 3bps base on their planted tank and see how long it last.


That's not really correct. Co2 in the bottle is in both the liquid and gas phase and so your analysis, which would be correct for a simple pressurized gas is not necessarily right. The only way to really know is to put your bottle on a scale and measure the dropoff in weight.


----------



## Wicket_lfe

fauxjargon said:


> That's not really correct. Co2 in the bottle is in both the liquid and gas phase and so your analysis, which would be correct for a simple pressurized gas is not necessarily right. The only way to really know is to put your bottle on a scale and measure the dropoff in weight.


 
I'd agree with Faux, since when they filled my tank i observed that they simply weigh it. I found that fascinating, then ran home to build this thing. LOL.


----------



## Wicket_lfe

NickS said:


> Has anyone considered this as an alternative to what we're doing here?
> 
> It seems like a decent price and is practically identical what we're doing from what I can tell.
> 
> One of the reasons I ask is because I was looking at getting the swagelok needle valve to replace the Watts A-41 I have because I cannot get a consistent bubble rate. With the swagelok costing around $30, it almost seems like I should just get this "Single CO2 Controller" as they call it. If the "industrial grade needle valve" stands up to their description of it, this setup looks pretty good.
> 
> Anyone have experience with this product?


 
That seems pretty good for $35. Then again i guess it doesnt include the tank so cost considering shipping minus a little elbow grease, is about the same.


----------



## Jaggedfury

fauxjargon said:


> That's not really correct. Co2 in the bottle is in both the liquid and gas phase and so your analysis, which would be correct for a simple pressurized gas is not necessarily right. The only way to really know is to put your bottle on a scale and measure the dropoff in weight.


Like I said, it's been well over a month and a few days and so far it's used up a little more than 50ish psi. I'm only keeping track of how long it will last because people on here don't think you could get well over 5-6 months or more off this setup. I know well enough, I'm already shooting pass 5-6 months. Even if I get close to 5 months or over 6 months or still going on, it's still a well worth it setup. With this setup this time around, I will let the gauge empty down to zero, until I see no bubbles from my diffuser. Before, I just shut it off when it hits directly on 50psi and take it in for a refill. 50psi left in the tank could goes for a couple of weeks. I guess time will tell, since a few dozen people are already trying this out and keeping track how many weeks it's been running. I will take your words and weigh it when it's empty with everything attached. I will also weigh it once it's refill with everything attached and see what the weight difference is, but that'll have to weight til next time around.


----------



## hbosman

Jaggedfury said:


> Like I said, it's been well over a month and a few days and so far it's used up a little more than 50ish psi. I'm only keeping track of how long it will last because people on here don't think you could get well over 5-6 months or more off this setup. I know well enough, I'm already shooting pass 5-6 months. Even if I get close to 5 months or over 6 months or still going on, it's still a well worth it setup. With this setup this time around, I will let the gauge empty down to zero, until I see no bubbles from my diffuser. Before, I just shut it off when it hits directly on 50psi and take it in for a refill. 50psi left in the tank could goes for a couple of weeks. I guess time will tell, since a few dozen people are already trying this out and keeping track how many weeks it's been running. I will take your words and weigh it when it's empty with everything attached. I will also weigh it once it's refill with everything attached and see what the weight difference is, but that'll have to weight til next time around.


After you pay for the hardware, CO2 gas is cheaper than 5 lb bags of sugar. :hihi:


----------



## NickS

Wicket_lfe said:


> That seems pretty good for $35. Then again i guess it doesnt include the tank so cost considering shipping minus a little elbow grease, is about the same.


It's not the same if the needle valve is a much higher grade. It's better  The little Watts A-41 has been a real pita for me. Of course, if the needle valve sucks...well then it sucks.

I'll probably buy it and report back. I get paid tomorrow.


----------



## kidk

My setup is all put together and I was wondering if anyone has tried a upgraded needle valve with this setup? My tank is 6 gallons and I'm trying to get >1 bps (1 bp 2-3 secs) with the Home Depot valve, with no luck. Does anyone have any experience with any other model needle valve and where did you purchase it? Thanks! :wink:


FYI: Sports Authority does CO2 refills for $5 at the customer service counter.


----------



## Noahma

kidk said:


> My setup is all put together and I was wondering if anyone has tried a upgraded needle valve with this setup? My tank is 6 gallons and I'm trying to get >1 bps (1 bp 2-3 secs) with the Home Depot valve, with no luck. Does anyone have any experience with any other model needle valve and where did you purchase it? Thanks! :wink:
> 
> 
> FYI: Sports Authority does CO2 refills for $5 at the customer service counter.


with the needle valve. Did you tighten up the nut just below the valve handle? They are very loose when you first get the needle valve, if you tighten it up, it will give you much better control over how much you have the needle open.


----------



## Noahma

This is the one that I was thinking of getting. The shop is about 5 min. from my house, so I think I will give them a ring tomorrow.

http://www.hustlepaintball.com/PHAT-On-Off-Dovetail-ASA-Blue-p/31470202.htm


----------



## Burks

I'm going to order one of those eBay ones that was posted earlier in the thread and do this on a 20g long with a 65w PC. Should be interesting. Any way to split this between two tanks until I can save for another setup?


----------



## Wicket_lfe

Burks said:


> I'm going to order one of those eBay ones that was posted earlier in the thread and do this on a 20g long with a 65w PC. Should be interesting. Any way to split this between two tanks until I can save for another setup?


Couldn't you just get a line T and split the line between the tanks?


----------



## Jaggedfury

Noahma said:


> This is the one that I was thinking of getting. The shop is about 5 min. from my house, so I think I will give them a ring tomorrow.
> 
> http://www.hustlepaintball.com/PHAT-On-Off-Dovetail-ASA-Blue-p/31470202.htm


That will work. Someone else PM me that link also. 

Split it and let us know, as far as splitting it, I haven't tried it. Maybe someone who tried splitting 1 paintball tank into 2 lines should chime in on this.


----------



## kidk

Noahma said:


> This is the one that I was thinking of getting. The shop is about 5 min. from my house, so I think I will give them a ring tomorrow.
> 
> http://www.hustlepaintball.com/PHAT-On-Off-Dovetail-ASA-Blue-p/31470202.htm


Yup that will work, thats the one I got off of ebay.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Kidk, do double check your needle valve to make sure it's fully tighten. That nut matters alot. This was the cause of people not being able to adjust their needle valve down to 1bps. I'm able to adjust it down to 1-3bps. I'm sure I can adjust it to 4-6bps as well, as my tank doesn't need that much co2. A few members here made that mistake also, but once they tighten that, problem solve. Just counting months now. lol


----------



## kidk

Noahma said:


> with the needle valve. Did you tighten up the nut just below the valve handle? They are very loose when you first get the needle valve, if you tighten it up, it will give you much better control over how much you have the needle open.


Yup, made sure to tighten that one, and I still cant get a lower bps. I slowest I could get was around 4-5 bps. I was wondering how low those swagelok ones could go and which model (there seems to be many different ones) would work for our application. Any insight is appreciated.


----------



## Razgrizs

Hi guys, Ive been reading this thread for awhile and thought id throw in something i found.... 
I found an on/off asa via Amazon.com. http://www.amazon.com/32-Degrees-Qu...=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1288247098&sr=1-1

I haven't bought it yet . but if it works it seems like a great deal.


----------



## Wicket_lfe

Jaggedfury said:


> That will work. Someone else PM me that link also.
> 
> Split it and let us know, as far as splitting it, I haven't tried it. Maybe someone who tried splitting 1 paintball tank into 2 lines should chime in on this.


I guess a line T wouldn't allow separate control. I guess Ideall you would want 2 needle valves, which is fine since the on/off has 2 anyway, just don't use the pressure gauge.


----------



## NickS

Wicket_lfe said:


> I guess a line T wouldn't allow separate control. I guess Ideall you would want 2 needle valves, which is fine since the on/off has 2 anyway, just don't use the pressure gauge.


If you did it that way wouldn't opening or closing one of the needle valves then throw off the other valve because of the pressure change?


----------



## Wicket_lfe

NickS said:


> If you did it that way wouldn't opening or closing one of the needle valves then throw off the other valve because of the pressure change?


Good point, I just wanted to negate my original suggestion of a T split in one line, since it would be pretty much impossible to fine tune.

At least with 2 needle valves you can finnagle it to get what you want in each tank, it would just be a pain.


----------



## dzydvl

***** Update****
I talked to Mark, the manager at AM paintball, and he finally heard back from the sales person at Trinity. The reason for the backorder is due to an issue with a leak inside the valve (I'm guessing the brass insert that centers the tank) It sounds like they were machined a little off which caused issues in the seal. As of this point it look they figure two to three weeks before they can start filling orders. 

As I told the couple people that sent me PM's, this was initially set up to try and provide members with a money saving CO2 setup. It was never intended to be a money making venture, in fact the prices had zero markup. I figured if I was picking stuff up for me, why couldn't I pick it up for others as well. 

While my intentions were good, the end result has been a failure. For that I apologize, I know there were a lot of people counting on this, but as of this point it's not looking so hot. I'm hoping Trinity is able to come through sooner, but I'm not getting my hopes up. I'm still trying to locate an alternative solution that is equivalent in price as well as features. I will keep everyone posted on my findings....... :icon_redf


----------



## jeremyblevins

Thanks a lot dzydvl for your efforts


----------



## Wicket_lfe

Where as I didn't order for you, I don't think there is anything to apologize for. You tried to help out the community free of charge, and it just didn't work out. I still appreciate the effort, and hopefully the rest agree.


----------



## antbug

Razgrizs said:


> Hi guys, Ive been reading this thread for awhile and thought id throw in something i found....
> I found an on/off asa via Amazon.com. http://www.amazon.com/32-Degrees-Qu...=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1288247098&sr=1-1
> 
> I haven't bought it yet . but if it works it seems like a great deal.


Great find. Dose anyone know if this will work?


----------



## keithy

kidk said:


> My setup is all put together and I was wondering if anyone has tried a upgraded needle valve with this setup? My tank is 6 gallons and I'm trying to get >1 bps (1 bp 2-3 secs) with the Home Depot valve, with no luck. Does anyone have any experience with any other model needle valve and where did you purchase it? Thanks! :wink:
> 
> 
> FYI: Sports Authority does CO2 refills for $5 at the customer service counter.


I was wanting to know the same thing. Say for example, someone suggested swagelok b-orm2 for needle valve. What about swagelok b-ovm2? They both handles 3000 psi pressure. Looks like the difference is only the stem type.

Edit: I think I may have found the answer to my own question. b-ovm2 will have less control over flow, as it is the vee type stem, while b-orm2 will have better control because of the regulating stem nature.


----------



## Jaggedfury

antbug said:


> Great find. Dose anyone know if this will work?


That will work, Any 32 degree that says " Drop Forward will work ", As long as it states it's a Drop Forward and On/Off in the same description. Doesn't matter what color. It's not a On/Off if it doesn't have the upper valve to close/open the co2 gas.

If it just says Drop Forward, and doesn't show a "Twist" valve for the upper valve to open and close the co2 gas, it won't work at all. Some will just say Drop Forward only, which won't work at all. 

I do not have an answers regarding any sort of Swegelok brand needle valves.


----------



## R33 GTR

Hi bill no worries be happy jejeje i can wait longer becuase her in Puerto Rico de where asking like 40 bucks for a on and off valve


----------



## rabadswompe

thank you for posting this... a friend of mine is geting out of the paintball scene and is giving me his 3 20oz tanks... woo hooo!!!!


----------



## Noahma

dzydvl said:


> ***** Update****
> I talked to Mark, the manager at AM paintball, and he finally heard back from the sales person at Trinity. The reason for the backorder is due to an issue with a leak inside the valve (I'm guessing the brass insert that centers the tank) It sounds like they were machined a little off which caused issues in the seal. As of this point it look they figure two to three weeks before they can start filling orders.
> 
> As I told the couple people that sent me PM's, this was initially set up to try and provide members with a money saving CO2 setup. It was never intended to be a money making venture, in fact the prices had zero markup. I figured if I was picking stuff up for me, why couldn't I pick it up for others as well.
> 
> While my intentions were good, the end result has been a failure. For that I apologize, I know there were a lot of people counting on this, but as of this point it's not looking so hot. I'm hoping Trinity is able to come through sooner, but I'm not getting my hopes up. I'm still trying to locate an alternative solution that is equivalent in price as well as features. I will keep everyone posted on my findings....... :icon_redf


Thaks for the effort for all of us. I did find a paintball store near me that has a valve that I will end up getting as soon as I get the ok from my wife lol


----------



## Yoder808

Would it be possible to add a solenoid to this setup?


----------



## Jaggedfury

Keep in mind when purchasing Solenoids, they are rated at different low and high pressure. I'm not sure how many pressure but that's something to take consideration of. Too high, might now make it work with the 850 psi at full from the paintball co2 tank. Too low, probably won't even tiger it to open. Do your research on the Solenoid's pressure before you go and buy it. I have not yet test any Solenoid on this rig, so I could not help you in any way. But if you managed to find one that will work, do post it up and share with everyone here.


----------



## jeffvmd

It is possible but the solenoid for that high pressure will end up costing more (more than total cost of the rig itself).
IMO, it will be better to get a regulator with solenoid and a big tank as the cost will be more or less close to a regular CO2 set up already when added all up.


----------



## Yoder808

jeffvmd said:


> It is possible but the solenoid for that high pressure will end up costing more (more than total cost of the rig itself).
> IMO, it will be better to get a regulator with solenoid and a big tank as the cost will be more or less close to a regular CO2 set up already when added all up.


That's kind of what I was wondering... This ASA ON/OFF and Needle Valve setup reduces the flow rate, but if the flow was stopped, it would eventually reach 800 psi on the output side as well... 

Oh well, I REALLY like the DIY route, I'm just afraid of gassing my fish at night. I do have an air pump, and a timer that could kick it on at night. Is it worth spending the extra money on one this with a solenoid? (I supposed that is a matter of opinion, but I'm new to the hobby!)


----------



## Jaggedfury

Never had a fish gasped for air. In my other tank, I have 18 white clouds, 6 neons, 3 clown loach. Mines is left 24/7 but just not releasing more than 2bps. I have a massive amount of oxygen aerating the tank.


----------



## keithy

Yoder808 said:


> That's kind of what I was wondering... This ASA ON/OFF and Needle Valve setup reduces the flow rate, but if the flow was stopped, it would eventually reach 800 psi on the output side as well...


output side of what? The needle valve would hold the pressure down and the output from the needle valve will be a lot less than 800 psi, otherwise, the co2/gas tubing will fail. Therefore, regardless if the flow was stop or not, the asa valve and needle valve should theoretically hold the majority of th 800 psi of pressure from the co2 tank. IMO, it is very important that the needle valve be able to hold at least 850 psi. The same holds in the case of a regulator with solenoid in place of the needle valve.


----------



## jeffvmd

I have 2 tanks with fishes and shrimps leaving this co2 set up on 24/7, no aeration at night, and everything seem ok at 2-3 bps.

No drastic pH swings as i try to check the pH morning and night (6.8-7)

It just depends on ones preference wether or not to put a solenoid or not just for peace of mind.


----------



## ddtran46

Ok just got my parts and stuff. I have some questions..
Do we need this part?









Do I just place the co2 tube in here? If I do it this way and tighten it, the co2 tube will come off easily..


----------



## Cloudfish

Slide the nut onto the tubing first, then insert the piece in the first picture into the end of the tubing. It helps to then wrap some plumbing tape around the threads of the fitting, and then just tighten the nut.


----------



## ddtran46

Cloudfish said:


> Slide the nut onto the tubing first, then insert the piece in the first picture into the end of the tubing. It helps to then wrap some plumbing tape around the threads of the fitting, and then just tighten the nut.


My co2 tube is too thick to tighten the nut.. 

Where did you guys get your tubes from? Lowes/Homedepot?


----------



## Jaggedfury

Cloudfish said:


> Slide the nut onto the tubing first, then insert the piece in the first picture into the end of the tubing. It helps to then wrap some plumbing tape around the threads of the fitting, and then just tighten the nut.


That copper slide pin is a *must*. There's no way it for the co2 tubing to shoot off once it's in place. You should have somewhat a super tight fit for your tubing to slide into the pin. If you have no trouble at all, the tubing is too big.

You should also have a difficult time when you first slide the nut on first. This ensures that your using the right size co2 tubing.


----------



## ddtran46

Jaggedfury said:


> That copper slide pin is a *must*. There's no way it for the co2 tubing to shoot off once it's in place. You should have somewhat a super tight fit for your tubing to slide into the pin. If you have no trouble at all, the tubing is too big.
> 
> You should also have a difficult time when you first slide the nut on first. This ensures that your using the right size co2 tubing.


Yeah..theres no way for me to slide on the nut. My tube is too thick. Does Lowes or homedepot sell co2 tubing?


----------



## rountreesj

i assume we are still talking about co2 tubing being too thick

bahahahaha


anywho, just use aipump tubing for aquariums. perfect stuff...


----------



## ddtran46

rountreesj said:


> i assume we are still talking about co2 tubing being too thick
> 
> bahahahaha
> 
> 
> anywho, just use aipump tubing for aquariums. perfect stuff...


Yeah..I'm talking about my co2 tubing:hihi: haha

But yeah..I just went to lowes and bought 20' of clear vinyl tubing for $3 something.


----------



## Yoder808

keithy said:


> output side of what?


I meant the output from the needle valve. 



keithy said:


> The needle valve would hold the pressure down and the output from the needle valve will be a lot less than 800 psi,(...)


That's what I was wondering, and I don't think the needle valve would limit the pressure. I think the needle valve is only restricting the _flow_, not limiting pressure at all.


----------



## keithy

Yoder808 said:


> That's what I was wondering, and I don't think the needle valve would limit the pressure. I think the needle valve is only restricting the _flow_, not limiting pressure at all.


The needle valve will not influence the pressure in a direct way, but it creates "enegry loss" that the bernoulli equation(this is a closed conduit flow) will be balanced, for the correct amount of flow you want it to be. That being said, the pressure at the outlet of needle valve is a lot less than 800 psi, and hence the tubing will not explode.


----------



## Yoder808

I'm using a DIY reactor very similar to this one. If I just kill the power to it when the lights go out, is that a safe way of effectively stop the CO2 injection? The CO2 collects, and comes out of the (non-moving) impeller as large bubbles.


----------



## Noahma

So... What do you think the refill rate for a 24 oz. tank would be on a 36 gal aquarium? lol I was laying around watching my 36 gal thinking about setting up on of these for it as well (its low light right now) I should have the 10 gal setup with the DIY injection by weeks end.


----------



## McGillicutty

ddtran46 said:


>


What on/off valve is this? Do you have a link of a possible seller? If not what brand is it?


----------



## Wicket_lfe

McGillicutty said:


> What on/off valve is this? Do you have a link of a possible seller? If not what brand is it?


 
Taht's the needle valve I/we get at Home depot or Lowes.


----------



## Wicket_lfe

Jaggedfury said:


> Nope, not that I have experienced. I ran it once through an entire full filled co2 paintball tank setup without having to adjust it. I set mines and leave it 24/7. I just leave it til when it's reaches 50psi and I turn it off and remove it. That's what the black hose is for.
> 
> I would suggest using a breakoff point at the end of that black co2 hose, that way you can close your needle valve, and shut off the upper valve ontop of the On/Off Valve, and twist off the On/Off Valve for easy refilling. Just makes it easier so you don't have to remove the co2 hose as a complete one unit.
> I used the Tee connector from this kit, it pops out fairly easy and the co2 hose will plug into it snugged. No leak there also.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just a suggestion for easy disconnect of the On/Off Valve while you take only the Paintball Co2 tank for refilling.
> 
> The black co2 tubing hose can be bought at your local fish/pet store. Homedepot carries it too, might not be black but it is made for co2 gas passthru safe. They come in clear also.


 
Is that a knob for adjustments? I'm having trouble adjusting mine to the bubble rate i want. Can anyone suggest another valve for fine tuning?


----------



## Jaggedfury

Noahma said:


> So... What do you think the refill rate for a 24 oz. tank would be on a 36 gal aquarium? lol I was laying around watching my 36 gal thinking about setting up on of these for it as well (its low light right now) I should have the 10 gal setup with the DIY injection by weeks end.


As far as Refilling goes for 20oz and 24oz at 1 bps, shoot for 5-6 months per refill.



McGillicutty said:


> What on/off valve is this? Do you have a link of a possible seller? If not what brand is it?


Here's the link that other members PM me regarding this On/Off Valve. They have it on ebay for less but I'm not able to post any ebay links here. 

http://www.hustlepaintball.com/PHAT-On-Off-Dovetail-ASA-Blue-p/31470202.htm




Wicket_lfe said:


> Is that a knob for adjustments? I'm having trouble adjusting mine to the bubble rate i want. Can anyone suggest another valve for fine tuning?


That "Tee" Piece is used for a "Easy Disconnect" point so you won't have to bring the whole entire unit when it comes down to refilling. From my photo in earlier post, I'm actually using the end piece of it only, notice in the picture where the black co2 tube ends, the piece goes there and continues to connect to another co2 tubing. I wouldn't recommend using that "Tee" connector as a whole unit to anyway adjust your co2. It's only used as a part for quick disconnect of your co2 tubing.


----------



## ddtran46

McGillicutty said:


> What on/off valve is this? Do you have a link of a possible seller? If not what brand is it?


Yeah just look up "Phat on off valve" on ebay. Its 9.99 for the valve and 2 dollars for shipping.


----------



## jeremyblevins

okay so i ordered the phat on/off and gauge grom hustle for 21.98 shipped, got the needle valve for 6.05 so far it costs 28.03 plus 21.99 for co2 tank and 4 for co2. so the grand total is 54. not bad.


----------



## Jaggedfury

ddtran46 said:


> Yeah just look up "Phat on off valve" on ebay. Its 9.99 for the valve and 2 dollars for shipping.


How's that On/Off Valve working? Were you able to correct your co2 hose connection? Let me and others know how it's working. 

Phat is actually a knock off lower grade On/Off product, just curious to how it works. 

I know I stated in the beginning that brand doesn't matter, but I'm using CP (Custom Products) and ST(Shock Tech). Just liked to know how that Phat product is working.


----------



## Jaggedfury

jeremyblevins said:


> okay so i ordered the phat on/off and gauge grom hustle for 21.98 shipped, got the needle valve for 6.05 so far it costs 28.03 plus 21.99 for co2 tank and 4 for co2. so the grand total is 54. not bad.


Not bad at all, I however had someone order that Phat product off ebay for less than $11 shipped. I believed I recalled from the Private Message inbox that it was $5.99 with $4.99 shipping. Just a little price difference that I wanted to state.


----------



## jeremyblevins

yeah i ordered it for 9.99 plus 2 shipping but i had them add in a gauge for 9.99 more so the total was 21.98 for asa and gauge


----------



## Jaggedfury

Even better. Awesome.


----------



## jeremyblevins

yeah and the guy i ordered from said i was getting one of the last ones so if anyone out there is on the fence might wanna think about it.


----------



## ddtran46

Jaggedfury said:


> How's that On/Off Valve working? Were you able to correct your co2 hose connection? Let me and others know how it's working.
> 
> Phat is actually a knock off lower grade On/Off product, just curious to how it works.
> 
> I know I stated in the beginning that brand doesn't matter, but I'm using CP (Custom Products) and ST(Shock Tech). Just liked to know how that Phat product is working.


Yeah I bought the clear vinyl tubing from lowes the other night and it fits perfectly.

The phat on/off asa is working great. It took me a while for me to make it not leak any co2 out but it is definitely worth it.


----------



## ddtran46

jeremyblevins said:


> yeah i ordered it for 9.99 plus 2 shipping but i had them add in a gauge for 9.99 more so the total was 21.98 for asa and gauge


Amazon actually has a brand new 20 oz paintball tank for only 15 shipped. I am thinking about purchasing a second paintball tank soon. Here is a link to whoever needs it:
http://www.amazon.com/Pure-Energy-2...NBTCAQ&s=sporting-goods&qid=1288664044&sr=1-1


----------



## geekgirl

One needle valve and one diffuser from complete! Can't be a day too soon either. My new little nano is having algae issues.


----------



## Jaggedfury

ddtran46 said:


> Yeah I bought the clear vinyl tubing from lowes the other night and it fits perfectly.
> 
> The phat on/off asa is working great. It took me a while for me to make it not leak any co2 out but it is definitely worth it.


Awesome! Yepp, I would take the time to put the teflon tape in the right places the first time so that way you don't have to mess with it.


----------



## jeremyblevins

ddtran46 said:


> Amazon actually has a brand new 20 oz paintball tank for only 15 shipped. I am thinking about purchasing a second paintball tank soon. Here is a link to whoever needs it:
> http://www.amazon.com/Pure-Energy-2...NBTCAQ&s=sporting-goods&qid=1288664044&sr=1-1


Unfortunately I can't get the free shipping so the price is around 21 still


----------



## Noahma

Well, I picked up my asa valve today. Went to a local shop named Hustle painbal. They are super awesome. they did not have the valve that I wanted in stock, nor any others at the time. So they started pulling guns apart to find one that would work, and only charged me a used price. So I got a slightly used valve for cheap!! I highly recommend them. They do have an online store, if you do a search for the above name. I will go get the tank filled tomorrow eve, and give this sucker a try.


----------



## jeremyblevins

Noahma said:


> Well, I picked up my asa valve today. Went to a local shop named Hustle painbal. They are super awesome. they did not have the valve that I wanted in stock, nor any others at the time. So they started pulling guns apart to find one that would work, and only charged me a used price. So I got a slightly used valve for cheap!! I highly recommend them. They do have an online store, if you do a search for the above name. I will go get the tank filled tomorrow eve, and give this sucker a try.


that's who i ordered my asa from really helpful and nice people


----------



## happi

so what happen to stuff we suppose to recieve.


----------



## Jaggedfury

dzydvl stated the following..

I talked to Mark, the manager at AM paintball, and he finally heard back from the sales person at Trinity. The reason for the backorder is due to an issue with a leak inside the valve (I'm guessing the brass insert that centers the tank) It sounds like they were machined a little off which caused issues in the seal. As of this point it look they figure two to three weeks before they can start filling orders.

As I told the couple people that sent me PM's, this was initially set up to try and provide members with a money saving CO2 setup. It was never intended to be a money making venture, in fact the prices had zero markup. I figured if I was picking stuff up for me, why couldn't I pick it up for others as well.

While my intentions were good, the end result has been a failure. For that I apologize, I know there were a lot of people counting on this, but as of this point it's not looking so hot. I'm hoping Trinity is able to come through sooner, but I'm not getting my hopes up. I'm still trying to locate an alternative solution that is equivalent in price as well as features. I will keep everyone posted on my findings..


----------



## Noahma

I got my system all up and running today. This thing is great. Very very small adjustments to the needle valve. LOL the first time I turned it on I accidentally turned the needle valve too much and shot my bubble counter fluid up onto the ceiling. The second time I scared the crap out of my cats and daughter. I might need to choose another method of dispersant in the tank though. My Elite Mini is not chopping up the bubbles as fine as I want.


----------



## geekgirl

This might be a dumb question, but is it very hard to turn the on/off on and off? I can't quite screw the valve closed (on) and thus nothing is happening. I've got the 20oz tank from Amazon and the same phat on/off that Noahma posted, + Home Depot needle valve.


----------



## jeffvmd

Without the tank it is really easy to turn the asa valve on. You'll probably need some pliers to help in turning it clockwise. (on position)


----------



## geekgirl

Okay, I didn't want to try and force it unless I knew it wouldn't break. It is really easy when not attached, but crazy hard once attached.


----------



## jeffvmd

Just keep turning to the on position until some CO2 comes out.
I haven't really turned mine all the way down.
Do you guys with this CO2 set up turn the ASA valve all the way down?


----------



## jeremyblevins

well you're fighting around 850 psi haha not the easiest thing to do


----------



## ddtran46

The home depot needle valve is actually not that bad. I can get it down to 1 bubble per 2 seconds but it took a while to get it like that.


----------



## jeremyblevins

hmm weird the needle valve seems to keep closing on me or something. over time the co2 output slowly slows. could i have the nut too tight?


----------



## Noahma

jeremyblevins said:


> hmm weird the needle valve seems to keep closing on me or something. over time the co2 output slowly slows. could i have the nut too tight?


I have been having the same issue. Every morning I need to adjust it up a tiny bit to increase the count.


----------



## jeremyblevins

yeah last night before work i set everything up and around 1 bps and i come home and it's stopped. and today i have set it up to around 2 bps and its less than .5 now


----------



## Jaggedfury

Weird, I don't even touch mines at all. Just take a quick second to look at the gauge level and the bubbles coming out of the diffuser, that's all.


----------



## jeremyblevins

Jaggedfury said:


> Weird, I don't even touch mines at all. Just take a quick second to look at the gauge level and the bubbles coming out of the diffuser, that's all.


how tight did you tighten the nut on the valve that holds the handle and did yours have a little black rubber piece on it?


----------



## Jaggedfury

I hand tighten it to where I'm not able to anymore, then I used a wrench and just gave it a little more tightening to it. Yes, it has the little black rubber piece.


----------



## jeremyblevins

maybe i put mine on too tight then and the rubber piece is pushing on the handle causing it slowly to close? the only other thing i could think to affect it would be temperature causing the fluctuations in pressure. but that doesn't seem very likely.


----------



## Noahma

jeremyblevins said:


> maybe i put mine on too tight then and the rubber piece is pushing on the handle causing it slowly to close? the only other thing i could think to affect it would be temperature causing the fluctuations in pressure. but that doesn't seem very likely.


I was thinking the same thing, I might have to pull it apart and check.


----------



## Noahma

I pulled mine apart and checked every connection again. When I installed it again and cranked up the gas to 1ish bubble per second it now has a very mechanical look to the check valve at the bottom of my bubble counter. The bubble fills, sits for a nano second then floats to the top, the last install you could see the bubble form over a split second. I might have figured it out lol. We will see tomorrow. 

I am thinking of setting this up for my 36 gal, but using a T-connector and putting two of the 24 oz bottles each respective with their asa valve, and one needle valve. Just an idea to help double the amount of co2 carried at a time. it might be a few months before attempting lol


----------



## atticus27

Quick question:
I found the same adapter you guys were talking about. the PHAT on/off valve dovetail. (http://www.ansgear.com/Phat_Dovetail_On_Off_ASA_Blue_p/phatdovetailasablue.htm)
It has 2 holes, 1 for gauge and the other for needle valve. But instead of like other on/off valves, this one has a hole and a thread. How/what do i connect on either side? Do i need to buy a adapter? Other on/off valves have 2 holes, this one has one sticking out.


----------



## keithy

atticus27, you may be better off getting one with two holes. If you get the on/off valve with one hole, you will only be able to hookup the needle valve. Sure, you may be able to get an adapter thich will enable you to get two ports out of it, but it may cost more than the one with two ports.


----------



## Wicket_lfe

jeremyblevins said:


> yeah last night before work i set everything up and around 1 bps and i come home and it's stopped. and today i have set it up to around 2 bps and its less than .5 now


i experienced this a lot so i spent almost a whole day (sunday with football) monitoring it. 
I think it has something to do with the pressure in your lines and the diffuser, etc. I would get it set to my rate, and then it would diminish or die. It took a little tweaking and a lot of patience, but after you set it you have to really monitor it. I suggest starting low and slowly build it up to the BPS you want. I finally got it to settle at 1 bps and havent touched it snce.


----------



## atticus27

keithy said:


> atticus27, you may be better off getting one with two holes. If you get the on/off valve with one hole, you will only be able to hookup the needle valve. Sure, you may be able to get an adapter thich will enable you to get two ports out of it, but it may cost more than the one with two ports.


Oh I see, does this one work? http://www.iisports.com/product.asp?s=iispaintball&pf_id=XP9972A-EG&dept_id=3305


----------



## keithy

yes, it supposedly will.



atticus27 said:


> Oh I see, does this one work? http://www.iisports.com/product.asp?s=iispaintball&pf_id=XP9972A-EG&dept_id=3305


----------



## Jaggedfury

Just keep in mind, when you turn it on, you have to wait a few seconds while the co2 gas pass through your tubing into your output whether it's a diffuser or into a filter. Once it starts to release the co2 gas, then go ahead and slightly turn it down to the desirable bubbles per second. Observe the flow for a minute, and watch the constant flow path of the co2 gas, making sure it doesn't shut off. Depending on how long your co2 tubing hose goes, you might need to observe the flow and fine tune it for a few minutes. I would imagine no more than 5 minutes to fine tune it down to a steady bubbles per seconds. The shorter your co2 tubing, take for example.. a 5 gallon nano tank and the co2 paintball setup is sitting right by it, thus having your co2 tubing no more than a foot long will give you faster tuning. 

If done right as mentioned above with constant flow at a set tuning degree of the arm, it will stay constant, considering you don't have any future leakage.


----------



## antbug

Got mine set up over the weekend. Due to some free kickdowns, my system only cost me $17! Thank you Jaggedfury for the post and Nikki for the free NV and tank.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Awesome. Glad it worked out for another member!


----------



## Noahma

I am still fighting with the bubble count. I had it set to two bubbles per second earlier this eve, and just a few hours later it is now sitting at about 1 bubble every 2 seconds. I pulled the needle valve apart last night and re sealed it all. I just might have to try another one.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Hmm... Weird. A few dozen members have gotten this to work perfectly.. and a couple have bps issue. Not sure what to guide you guys towards. We're all using the same needle valve, besides one or two folks using the swag.. needle valves.

Are you certain you don't have any leakage at all. Even the smallest slow leakage anywhere on the threads or your tubing will cause the drop in co2 gas coming out of the diffuser once it's set. If that's not the case, I can only say without a doubt the needle valve is your culprit.


----------



## Noahma

I submerged the whole setup for a few min. and looked carefully at the asa and all the connections for leaks, and I did not see any. The bubble counter may not be tight enough along the top, but that would not cause the decrease in bubble count as it is in the exit end of the bubble counter. I might just go pick up another one since they are cheap tomorrow afternoon and give it a try.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Even at 1 bps set, there really is no way for it to stop after a few hours, if that's the case there has to be a some short of leakage. The travel path of the co2 gas couldn't take a few hours then just stop. I actually replanted a 5gallon Nano this morning around 11AM, I decided to inject co2 so I took it off my other 20gallon tank with just moss in it, and set it up to a glass ceramic diffuser in the 5gallon Nano. Adjust it to 1bps and since then it hasn't even lost pressure, nor did I have to re-adjust anything. Took less than 1 minute to adjust it and left it. Room temperature is about 54, It's pretty cold here this time around. Still no visible effect on the several co2 paintball tanks I have running. I'm pointing to your needle valve as the culprit.


----------



## atticus27

Jaggedfury said:


> Awesome. Glad it worked out for another member!


Do you have the product number for the needle valve at homedepot or lowes? preferrably homedepot. I went there and saw many sizes but wasn't sure which thread it is. thanks.

Oh and gauges, are home depot gauges any good? if so which one would you prefer.


----------



## Jaggedfury

atticus27 said:


> Do you have the product number for the needle valve at homedepot or lowes? preferrably homedepot. I went there and saw many sizes but wasn't sure which thread it is. thanks.
> 
> Oh and gauges, are home depot gauges any good? if so which one would you prefer.


Part number.. on Homedepot link below..Lowes carry the same product, not sure if it's the same part number.

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

Not sure about the gauges at homedepot, never seen any before. If you really want one, the paintball stores sells them for no more than $10 dollars. They're usually 6.99 to 9.99.


----------



## jeremyblevins

Yeah noahma let me know if that solves your problem replacing it, this is frustrating haha


----------



## g33tar

Id like to nominate this for thread of the year.


----------



## Noahma

Not sure if my problem is fixed yet, but I did have a catastrophic failure of.......... THE TANK!!! lol The valve on the tank was broken. I had problems where it would take about 15-20 second when opened to offer any pressure at all on my gauge, So when I got home this eve I went to go pull it all apart, and the tank would not turn off even after turning off the asa valve. So.... I figured that the asa needle had just become unscrewed from the nob. I decided to just take the asa valve off as quick as I could to fix the problem thinking that the needle on the tank would just close. Well since it was broken lol it pumped 4.5 oz of co2 into my kitchen, then the rest out side on the deck lol Let me tell you that was fricken cool watching the co2 outside, looked like a volcano lol I brought the tank to hustle paintball which is by my house, they tested the tank and tried to fill it, but the valve is broken and will not close. I should have realized something was wrong the first time I hooked up the tank as the pressure gauge would take a bit to show pressure, and then when it did, it would show 1000 lb of pressure instead of the 850 it should have. 

So Jeremy, take a look at the tank, and see if you are having the same issues with the pressure gauge too. I will post if this fixed the problem later tonight, and if it is the problem whala, if not then I will attempt a new needle valve. I did get a larger tank this time *(20 oz.) and will return the 9oz to walmart.


----------



## jeremyblevins

not sure exactly what you mean but my asa gauge jumps up to around 800 psi as soon as it gets to the point where it depresses the pin valve


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## Noahma

Mine would take about 10-15 seconds to pressurize, and then it would show 1000 psi, and drop over a period of 2 hours down to 900. The new tank so far is holding good at 1.5bps and is showing the correct 850 psi I will see over a longer period of time if it is holding the bps


----------



## jeremyblevins

no mine definitely doesn't have that problem i just let all the pressure out and rescrewed the asa and it went right back to 800 and stays there even if i open the needle valve a little ways and can hear the gas coming out.


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## Jaggedfury

g33tar said:


> Id like to nominate this for thread of the year.


In two days it marks the 2 month mark since this post was started. I will update the gauge pressure on my paintball co2! I couldn't remember when I refilled, but I refilled it a few days before I started this thread but we'll count it as 9/11/10 for the starting point at 850 psi.



Noahma said:


> Not sure if my problem is fixed yet, but I did have a catastrophic failure of.......... THE TANK!!! lol The valve on the tank was broken. I had problems where it would take about 15-20 second when opened to offer any pressure at all on my gauge, So when I got home this eve I went to go pull it all apart, and the tank would not turn off even after turning off the asa valve. So.... I figured that the asa needle had just become unscrewed from the nob. I decided to just take the asa valve off as quick as I could to fix the problem thinking that the needle on the tank would just close. Well since it was broken lol it pumped 4.5 oz of co2 into my kitchen, then the rest out side on the deck lol Let me tell you that was fricken cool watching the co2 outside, looked like a volcano lol I brought the tank to hustle paintball which is by my house, they tested the tank and tried to fill it, but the valve is broken and will not close. I should have realized something was wrong the first time I hooked up the tank as the pressure gauge would take a bit to show pressure, and then when it did, it would show 1000 lb of pressure instead of the 850 it should have.
> 
> So Jeremy, take a look at the tank, and see if you are having the same issues with the pressure gauge too. I will post if this fixed the problem later tonight, and if it is the problem whala, if not then I will attempt a new needle valve. I did get a larger tank this time *(20 oz.) and will return the 9oz to walmart.


I recommend the 20oz or 24oz. Haven't use anything smaller than 20oz. Must been one heck of a view witnessing all the co2 gas shoots a few feet up the air from the paintball tank.


----------



## jeremyblevins

so as a last test before buying a new valve i completely loosened the nut on the valve then hand tightened it only. the valve feels much more mechanical now and less rubbery, so hopefully that was it. cross my fingers and hope it's the same in the morning.


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## Jaggedfury

Hopefully it works... I really don't see no problem in this setup. Installation error maybe?


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## Capsaicin_MFK

Haven't touched the swagelok needle valve since I started the co2 flow into my tank and it has remained constant. If you think about it, $31 isn't that much compared to some of the things we buy for this hobby.


----------



## Noahma

Jaggedfury said:


> In two days it marks the 2 month mark since this post was started. I will update the gauge pressure on my paintball co2! I couldn't remember when I refilled, but I refilled it a few days before I started this thread but we'll count it as 9/11/10 for the starting point at 850 psi.
> 
> 
> 
> I recommend the 20oz or 24oz. Haven't use anything smaller than 20oz. Must been one heck of a view witnessing all the co2 gas shoots a few feet up the air from the paintball tank.


lol yea it was pretty cool, except the flash of algae as I first found that it would not close lol


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## Noahma

Capsaicin_MFK said:


> Haven't touched the swagelok needle valve since I started the co2 flow into my tank and it has remained constant. If you think about it, $31 isn't that much compared to some of the things we buy for this hobby.


Wish I had 31 to spend. I am currently working two jobs as my career job is well.... very slow. So any lower cost way I can do things to get some enjoyment out of the hobby I will attemp. I will eventually upgrade my needle valve as work starts to increase, but for now this one will have to do.


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## MeanGreenEyes

I've been wanting to try this diy for a few weeks and have been trying to find the asa on/off valve cheap for a few weeks w/ no luck...then I ran into this:

http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/4530/product.web

Has anyone tried this before? It looks like the same thing we're trying to diy...for $34.89 and I already have the paintball tanks and was trying to decide...

Thanks...


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## Jaggedfury

Get it and let us know how it works.. at the time of piecing this together, i was also browsing online and came to that items you're referring to.. but being me and cautious about ordering online.. I just decided to get things locally.


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## MeanGreenEyes

Jaggedfury said:


> Get it and let us know how it works.. at the time of piecing this together, i was also browsing online and came to that items you're referring to.. but being me and cautious about ordering online.. I just decided to get things locally.


Ordered it...will post once received and I get everything hooked up...


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## NickS

MeanGreenEyes said:


> I've been wanting to try this diy for a few weeks and have been trying to find the asa on/off valve cheap for a few weeks w/ no luck...then I ran into this:
> 
> http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/4530/product.web
> 
> Has anyone tried this before? It looks like the same thing we're trying to diy...for $34.89 and I already have the paintball tanks and was trying to decide...
> 
> Thanks...


I've been thinking about trying it. I have trouble with the inexpensive needle valves we're all using here and instead of buying an expensive valve I thought about just getting that item.

If you get it, post back and let us know!! I will probably get it eventually. I'm just short on cash ATM.


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## MeanGreenEyes

NickS said:


> I've been thinking about trying it. I have trouble with the inexpensive needle valves we're all using here and instead of buying an expensive valve I thought about just getting that item.
> 
> If you get it, post back and let us know!! I will probably get it eventually. I'm just short on cash ATM.


I just ordered it...should have it by early next week...it was $43 w/ shipping...no tax. I'll post once I have it up and running...it seemed like a lot less headache instead of hunting down parts...so I'm running w/ it...and the asa on/off valves that I was finding online were all $34 and up so I'm hoping this is a good deal and that it works...


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## NickS

MeanGreenEyes said:


> I just ordered it...should have it by early next week...it was $43 w/ shipping...no tax. I'll post once I have it up and running...it seemed like a lot less headache instead of hunting down parts...so I'm running w/ it...and the asa on/off valves that I was finding online were all $34 and up so I'm hoping this is a good deal and that it works...


Sweet! The real test for me is the needle valve and how steady it can hold the bubble rate. They don't give much data about the needle valve in the description of the product other than it's "industrial grade." I really hope it works well because I want to buy it.


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## MeanGreenEyes

NickS said:


> Sweet! The real test for me is the needle valve and how steady it can hold the bubble rate. They don't give much data about the needle valve in the description of the product other than it's "industrial grade." I really hope it works well because I want to buy it.


It better work perfectly...I'm not a patient person...lol. :icon_twis I want this yesterday and if it works like I'm hoping it does...I'll be ordering 3 more for my other tanks. I've been dying to go pressurized forever...diy yeast on 4 tanks is insane for me...so I've been dying for an easier and affordable solution b/c going w/ the full pressurized equipment would be astronomical on 4 tanks...so I'm hoping this paintball solution does the job.

Oh...I found my paintball tanks on amazon.com for $15.15 each...free super saver shipping and no tax...:hihi:

I'm just wondering if I need the teflon tape for this...or is it just a plug and play? Their description on the part is crap...in my opinion...


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## Noahma

Well my bubble count is still slowing, although it was fine when I woke up this morning, when I got home from work it was about 1 bubble per 5 seconds. I might go grab another needle valve tomorrow and check that.


----------



## jeremyblevins

yup mine isn't working either. very frustrating


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## Noahma

jeremyblevins said:


> yup mine isn't working either. very frustrating


After re-tightening the valve nut it does last a very long time before slowing down again. So I think it has to do with the valve stem and that nut. When I loosened the nut a lot, the rate slowed drastically and eventually shut down, so there might be an extremely slow leak at the needle end of the unit.


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## jeremyblevins

i guess tomorrow i'll try tightening it all the way then. if not i just have to buy a new valve.


----------



## keithy

Jeremy and Noamah , I am testing out another valve which can handle 2000 psi, but only cost a little more(about $13-15 shipped from ebay). I think this is the reason why some of the needle valve cannot hold a constant flow. The pressure from the input(asa on off valve) is about 800psi, and the home depot/lowes is rated at 400psi max. if you think about it, there is a substantial difference in pressure before and after the needle(say 700psi or more). The pressure at the upstream end is "pushing" in the direction of the needle closure causing it to close in the long run. if you tighten the nut enough, it may reduce the amount of closure.

For those of you who cannot afford a full price swagelok and could not find one cheap, if you can wait, I will let you guys know in a few days if the valve is any good. The valve is supposedly made for aircraft applications (which part of an aircraft, I don't know). IMO, if it's good for an aircraft it will be good for my fish tank.


----------



## jeremyblevins

yeah keep us updated. well i just cranked down on the needle vavle all three joints on it now are as tight as possible, so if that doesn't work then i just need a new valve.


----------



## Noahma

keithy said:


> Jeremy and Noamah , I am testing out another valve which can handle 2000 psi, but only cost a little more(about $13-15 shipped from ebay). I think this is the reason why some of the needle valve cannot hold a constant flow. The pressure from the input(asa on off valve) is about 800psi, and the home depot/lowes is rated at 400psi max. if you think about it, there is a substantial difference in pressure before and after the needle(say 700psi or more). The pressure at the upstream end is "pushing" in the direction of the needle closure causing it to close in the long run. if you tighten the nut enough, it may reduce the amount of closure.
> 
> For those of you who cannot afford a full price swagelok and could not find one cheap, if you can wait, I will let you guys know in a few days if the valve is any good. The valve is supposedly made for aircraft applications (which part of an aircraft, I don't know). IMO, if it's good for an aircraft it will be good for my fish tank.


that is not that bad of a price. Let us know.
I did have a very little adjustment I made today after 14 hours since the last adjustment. So something did change, since it was just a few hours between adjustments.


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## coldmantis

I'm having the same problem like everyone else, I have 2 tanks one is 24oz and one is 20oz both bought brand new from different paintball places, both have the same home depot needle valve. The 24oz works perfectly, no fluctuations on the bubbles but the 20oz does fluctuate, I have changed the needle valve on the 20oz but still the same. Only thing I can think of is that the asa adapter on the 20oz I bought used and the 24oz I bought new, so I ordered another asa adapter off ebay, hopefully that is the problem, adjusting the needle valve on the 20oz every couple of hours is too much hassle for me.


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## Jaggedfury

.. updated..










Low 700ish as of 2 months mark. As of last month October 20th, it was a hairline under 800psi. Now it's a little above 700psi. That's about a good 20 days or so. But taken in notice since this thread started.. it marks the 2nd month of this tank.


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## happi

where is dzydvl

he is not responding to my messages, did anyone else get hold of him. just wondering what happen to the co2 parts.


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## Jaggedfury

dzydvl said:


> *****Paintball Valve Update*****
> 
> I wanted to give you guys an update, but it's an update you may not want to hear. I placed the order last Friday with Alienman paintball (local paintball store). Early this afternoon I was left a message that the valves are currently on back order with the manufacturer. Mark is going to find out how long we are looking at, and I should know tomorrow. I'm also working with him to see if there is a valve (with a gauge) we can substitute for the same price. I won't have that information till tomorrow. As soon as I know something I will post it. I apologize to everyone I know this may cause some issues. If you would prefer to cancel your order request, I do understand.
> 
> Bill


Not that I know Bill personally. Just a member that wanted to help out this thread. But those were his words a few days ago. I suggest you message him as stated on his last sentence.


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## happi

Jaggedfury said:


> Not that I know Bill personally. Just a member that wanted to help out this thread. But those were his words a few days ago. I suggest you message him as stated on his last sentence.


i just said that he is not replying and that message is old now, it has been since 1 week or so for that message was posted, just wondering if he is still here and sending those orders to us.


----------



## mylittlefish

Jaggedfury said:


> It last a good 5-6 months before refill. This is referring to 20z Paintball co2 tanks. I have a two 20gallon long tanks, and a 30gallon tank. All 3 have their own Paintball Co2 tank, along with it's own On and Off valve and each individual co2 diffuser. With expection of my 30gallon being run on a 24oz Paintball co2 tank.
> 
> So 3 in total. They last pretty long doesn't take up space and is fairly easy to rig up. Teflon tape is a must or else it will leak. Test the on and off valve once you have it all hooked up and tighten with a bucket of water before final use.


:fish::fish::fish::fish::fish::fish:
little of top

Hi...... You are from Sacramento?
Is there ,still, a big "Aquatic Shop in Sacramento with the Floor to Ceiling and about 12 Foot Square Tank with Giant Clown Loaches?

This HUGE tank was to the left when coming in ,over a Koi filled pond .


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## Jaggedfury

Oh Sorry. That was his last message according to this thread, Haven't heard from him also. Not sure how to help you regarding that situation.


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## Jaggedfury

mylittlefish said:


> :fish::fish::fish::fish::fish::fish:
> little of top
> 
> Hi...... You are from Sacramento?
> Is there ,still, a big "Aquatic Shop in Sacramento with the Floor to Ceiling and about 12 Foot Square Tank with Giant Clown Loaches?



Yes, I am from Sacramento. Are you talking about Capital Aquarium in downtown? I noticed seeing huge clown loaches there months ago. I rarely go there though. If it's not Capital Aquarium might of been Exotic Aquarium, AquaWorkz or JoJo's Aquarium. They're all in Sacramento and they're all still in business.


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## mylittlefish

Haha! :>) It was only 35 years ago

Funny, I remember like it was yesterday....... I think it was Capitol.

Thanks for replying !

Must be nice to have so many Aquatic shops in an area......... We have ONE , but it has been here going on 30 years.

Preuss Pets

Rick and Debbie Preuss :>)

Free Prize to first person to guess where Preuss Pets is........


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## jeremyblevins

in lansing 
so what do i get? :biggrin:


----------



## Noahma

Well it has been all day and it is holding at slightly higher than 1bps, we will see tomorrow morning, I wonder if it has to do with the cold, since I let the house get pretty cool in the nights.


----------



## happi

could anyone give me a link to the parts beside the co2 tank, i think am gona go ahed and order it. please 

thanks


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## Noahma

happi said:


> could anyone give me a link to the parts beside the co2 tank, i think am gona go ahed and order it. please
> 
> thanks


Which parts do you need? 
There is another part someone found a couple pages ago that is a complete system, minus the tank.

There are many areas in which to buy each part. 

The ASA valve
The Needle Valve
The Pressure gauge 
CO2 resistant tubing
Teflon thread tape.
co2 paintball tank
opt. items
bubble counter of your choice
drop checker


----------



## happi

Noahma said:


> Which parts do you need?
> There is another part someone found a couple pages ago that is a complete system, minus the tank.
> 
> There are many areas in which to buy each part.
> 
> The ASA valve
> The Needle Valve
> The Pressure gauge
> CO2 resistant tubing
> Teflon thread tape.
> co2 paintball tank
> opt. items
> bubble counter of your choice
> drop checker


i just need the needle valve and ASA valve, i dont think i want the pressure gauge. so is there any link you could provide me. 

thanks

i have seen many things online but i dont want to order the wrong parts.


----------



## Noahma

happi said:


> i just need the needle valve and ASA valve, i dont think i want the pressure gauge. so is there any link you could provide me.
> 
> thanks
> 
> i have seen many things online but i dont want to order the wrong parts.


in terms of the ASA valve, all you need is a valve with one output if you do not want the pressure gauge. There are a few links on previous pages to some online, or if there is a local paintball store near you, you can go in and take a look at what they have. The needle valve can be found at Home Depot or lowes
The part number is A-41 (it is a Watts 1/4 in. x 1/8 in compression valve) unfortunately it looks as though Home Depot does not ship these. So going into a lowes or home depot is your best bet.


----------



## Jaggedfury

I can assure you, mines is steady output once it's adjust to whatever on the Watts A-41 Needle valve. Not positive that temperature has a major effect on the co2 gas within the paintball tank, if it does it's probably minimal. I know that several people have experiences re-adjustments of the needle valve, I just don't see that happening. Because a few folks here have theirs working perfectly as mines. I'd like to help but I'm not sure how. Replace and let us know.


----------



## Noahma

Jaggedfury said:


> I can assure you, mines is steady output once it's adjust to whatever on the Watts A-41 Needle valve. Not positive that temperature has a major effect on the co2 gas within the paintball tank, if it does it's probably minimal. I know that several people have experiences re-adjustments of the needle valve, I just don't see that happening. Because a few folks here have theirs working perfectly as mines. I'd like to help but I'm not sure how. Replace and let us know.


Well, I think I MAY have found where the problem is. In your description on the first few pages, you say to add the Teflon tape to the nut where the needle adjustment knob is. Well I forgot to put the tape there lol. I will pull it apart tomorrow if the bubble rate slows. so far it has not changed at all from where I set it this morning. Just over 1bps


----------



## happi

Noahma please check your Pm box


----------



## keithy

Jaggedfury said:


> I can assure you, mines is steady output once it's adjust to whatever on the Watts A-41 Needle valve. Not positive that temperature has a major effect on the co2 gas within the paintball tank, if it does it's probably minimal. I know that several people have experiences re-adjustments of the needle valve, I just don't see that happening. Because a few folks here have theirs working perfectly as mines. I'd like to help but I'm not sure how. Replace and let us know.


+1 on Jaggedfury comment on temperature has minimal effect on bubble rates. But I am begining to suspect the re-adjustment issue becomes more apparent if you did not tighten the nut near the needle adjustment knob enough.


----------



## NickS

I have used teflon tape and tightened that nut _very_ tight and I still get fluctuation in bps. My guess is that these are cheap needle valves and are poorly manufactured which results in difference between batches or even each piece. Some people got good ones, the rest got bad. That's all I've got. :/


----------



## jeremyblevins

yeah i've tightened mine all the way down and while it takes much longer to slow down it's still pretty much useless. i guess i'll just try to return it and get another one.


----------



## Noahma

I think I have it working now. I must have found just the right tightness on that nut. It was a bit over 1bps early eve last night, and then over the night it slowed to 1bps and has been holding firm.


----------



## keithy

As promised, I am here to update you guys about the valve I am testing. As of today, the valve is still holding the flow rate at 1 bps. I have not gotten any average rates, but just by leizurely counting the bps, it seems to hold pretty good.

I will report back this afternoon after I take some pics(I am not at home now).


----------



## SHIKARI

I had a problem with my needle valve as the bubble rate kept slowing down,but since yesturday its been steady.


----------



## keithy

Jaggedfury, 
as promised, here's my setup of the paintball co2. Thank you for helping me out. 

Everything was the same as Jaggedfury's setup, except for the needle valve. I am using a valve made by Deltrol. From the spec sheets of the valve, the valve is a needle valve used specifically for flow control. 

There are several versions of this valve, but to save you all the trouble, get the one with male female connection model number (FMF10BK). The one I had on now is (FP10BK). It works the same. The one I had on was sent to me as a mistake(I ordered FMF10BK, but was sent the FP series).
The valve performed as expected with no slowdown of the BPS count. Hope this helps.

Edit: I forgot to mention that the barb which was attached to the output end of the valve is a 1/8 npt to 3/16" ID hose barb. At the input end, it is simply an male 1/8 to male 1/8 npt "coupling".


----------



## Noahma

That is pretty slick.

Mine is stable now, I am at 2 days without any slowdown, it is just at 1bps


----------



## SHIKARI

where can I get one of those needle valves?


----------



## Barristan

keithy said:


> Jaggedfury,
> as promised, here's my setup of the paintball co2. Thank you for helping me out.
> 
> Everything was the same as Jaggedfury's setup, except for the needle valve. I am using a valve made by Deltrol. From the spec sheets of the valve, the valve is a needle valve used specifically for flow control.
> 
> There are several versions of this valve, but to save you all the trouble, get the one with male female connection model number (FMF10BK). The one I had on now is (FP10BK). It works the same. The one I had on was sent to me as a mistake(I ordered FMF10BK, but was sent the FP series).
> The valve performed as expected with no slowdown of the BPS count. Hope this helps.


Just picked up one off ebay (FMF10BK) for $13.00.
I'm having a lot of trouble maintaining a constant bubble rate with the Home Depot one.


----------



## keithy

Good to know that Noamah. Hopefully, shikari, jeremy and nicks can benefit from this if their needle valve issue is still not resolved.


----------



## keithy

SHIKARI said:


> where can I get one of those needle valves?


Ebay. Just type in Deltrol FMF10BK.


----------



## MeanGreenEyes

MeanGreenEyes said:


> I've been wanting to try this diy for a few weeks and have been trying to find the asa on/off valve cheap for a few weeks w/ no luck...then I ran into this: http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/4530/product.web Has anyone tried this before? It looks like the same thing we're trying to diy...for $34.89 and I already have the paintball tanks and was trying to decide... Thanks...


 Ok...so fedex delivered my part today and it came with no instructions at all...do I need to use teflon tape w/ this piece? (i.e. where the gauge connects) I have the paintball tank filled and ready co2 tubing glass diffuser Red Sea CO2 indicator. Do I need a bubble counter? I don't want to gas my fish...:help:


----------



## MeanGreenEyes

Oh and btw...for those who live in NYC that have been looking for a paintball shop...there's one in Williamsburg called Stingray...when you google paintball shops in NYC they do not come up for some reason...so I had to do some digging to find them...hope this helps someone with this set up. Stingray Ops 762 Grand St. Brooklyn NY 11211 Ph. 718-384-1280 stingrayopspb.com They have 20oz. tanks for $26...refills are $5.50 and she said the 3rd refill is free... I also found that amazon.com still has 20oz. tanks on sale for $15.15 ea and free supersaver shipping for orders over $25...


----------



## Jaggedfury

keithy said:


> Jaggedfury as promised here's my setup of the paintball co2. Thank you for helping me out. Everything was the same as Jaggedfury's setup except for the needle valve. I am using a valve made by Deltrol. From the spec sheets of the valve the valve is a needle valve used specifically for flow control. There are several versions of this valve but to save you all the trouble get the one with male female connection model number (FMF10BK). The one I had on now is (FP10BK). It works the same. The one I had on was sent to me as a mistake(I ordered FMF10BK but was sent the FP series). The valve performed as expected with no slowdown of the BPS count. Hope this helps. Edit: I forgot to mention that the barb which was attached to the output end of the valve is a 1/8 npt to 3/16" ID hose barb. At the input end it is simply an male 1/8 to male 1/8 npt "coupling".


 Very cool. Thanks for posting. For people having trouble with the Watts needle valve you guys could try that this Deltrol needle valve out and see what happens. Of course it' going to bump up the price a tad bit. I take it the Watts Needle valve as stated by another user here it could of been a bad batch that was sent out? Not really sure how that works. Mines still work fine no problem yet to occur.


----------



## atticus27

will this work??

[Ebay Link Removed]


----------



## RuggerMSC

I have all pieces except for the needle valve, does anyone know where I can order one of these or a similar type online. I live out in the boonies so it is difficult to get that part as I don't have a Home Depot or a Lowes. All we have here is ACE Hardware and they don't carry anything with the proper hose fitting, only compression valves with the compression ring fitting for hard tubing. Any help would be appreciated, I have searched and searched and can't seem to find one online.


----------



## Noahma

RuggerMSC said:


> I have all pieces except for the needle valve, does anyone know where I can order one of these or a similar type online. I live out in the boonies so it is difficult to get that part as I don't have a Home Depot or a Lowes. All we have here is ACE Hardware and they don't carry anything with the proper hose fitting, only compression valves with the compression ring fitting for hard tubing. Any help would be appreciated, I have searched and searched and can't seem to find one online.


The Needle Valve is a Watts Compression Needle Valve. Due to I am guessing lead in the valve, so they will not ship it.


----------



## Jaggedfury

RuggerMSC said:


> I have all pieces except for the needle valve, does anyone know where I can order one of these or a similar type online. I live out in the boonies so it is difficult to get that part as I don't have a Home Depot or a Lowes. All we have here is ACE Hardware and they don't carry anything with the proper hose fitting, only compression valves with the compression ring fitting for hard tubing. Any help would be appreciated, I have searched and searched and can't seem to find one online.


Some people are using the Swagek Needle valves, go back a few pages and they list the model of it also.


----------



## RuggerMSC

searched for the swagelock as well but i beleive the model number listed here is not correct, i can't even find it on the swagelock site


----------



## Jaggedfury

Not sure then, I was PM'ed by 2-3 people using the "Swag" brand valves, just recalling it that's all. I don't have the message saved.


----------



## RuggerMSC

I decided to use this needle valve. Deltrol FMF10BK


----------



## MeanGreenEyes

Ok...the Single Co2 Controller for Paintball that I bought:

http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/4530/product.web

is officially crap...worthless...don't waste your money...tried to go this route b/c my home depot in NYC doesn't carry a needle valve small enough to fit the asa valve and they don't ship them.

I called their customer service line b/c even when I barely turn the knob to open it...I mean very gently and very slowly co2 comes out in large bursts...there were no instructions in the box or on the website...was put on hold 10 times...literally just for them to say they didn't know and they're assuming that it's faulty...so I'm now awaiting a supervisor to call me back to approve and send out a return shipping label for me to send it back and get a replacement sent out...I'm guessing this is a sign where I should just ask for a refund...smdh


----------



## antbug

meangreeneyes ~ Sorry to hear about your troubles. If your interested in the HD NV, let me know and i'll be more than happy to ship one for you. I don't have an extra one, but I'll pick one up if you pay for the part and shipping.


----------



## MeanGreenEyes

antbug said:


> meangreeneyes ~ Sorry to hear about your troubles. If your interested in the HD NV, let me know and i'll be more than happy to ship one for you. I don't have an extra one, but I'll pick one up if you pay for the part and shipping.


Thanks...they just called me back and are sending a shipping label for the replacement...if it doesn't work w/ the replacement...then I'd be beyond grateful and would definitely be willing to pay for the valve and shipping...but I'm also concerned w/ the fact that people seem to be having difficulties w/ the watts needle valve...so idk...may try to go another route...


----------



## antbug

the offer is there. just let me know.


----------



## MeanGreenEyes

antbug said:


> the offer is there. just let me know.


Ok...thanks again...I definitely will post whether or not it works b/c there was a few people interested in buying it...


----------



## ddtran46

MeanGreenEyes said:


> Ok...the Single Co2 Controller for Paintball that I bought:
> 
> http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/4530/product.web
> 
> is officially crap...worthless...don't waste your money...tried to go this route b/c my home depot in NYC doesn't carry a needle valve small enough to fit the asa valve and they don't ship them.
> 
> I called their customer service line b/c even when I barely turn the knob to open it...I mean very gently and very slowly co2 comes out in large bursts...there were no instructions in the box or on the website...was put on hold 10 times...literally just for them to say they didn't know and they're assuming that it's faulty...so I'm now awaiting a supervisor to call me back to approve and send out a return shipping label for me to send it back and get a replacement sent out...I'm guessing this is a sign where I should just ask for a refund...smdh


Sorry to hear about your paintball regulator. I actually have the same one and I did have problems with it. It leaked where the gauge was at(this is probably the reason why my paintball tank only lasted for 2 months). I had to take out the gauge and cover the hole where the gauge use to be. Now I have a co2 controller that doesn't show how much co2 left I have in the paintball tank.:icon_frow


----------



## Jaggedfury

What size co2 paintball tank are you guys using? I'm curious to why the Watts Needle Valve is not working perfectly for others, but is for some. I have 3 running at the moment. Been running for months now. 

1 - 20oz Paintball co2 tank, Custom Products (CP) ASA ON/OFF Valve, Watts Needle Valve, Gauge.
2 - 20oz Paintball co2 tank, ShockTech (ST) ASA ON/OFF Valve, Watts Needle Valve, No Gauge.
3 - 24oz Paintball co2 tank, ShockTech (ST) ASA ON/OFF Valve, Watts Needle Valve, No Gauge.

No problems at all. Consistent bubbles, no decrease in flows, easily adjustable down to 1bps. Set it up, haven't touch it since.

Exception of 24oz setup on 2bps. 

Where are you guys buying your Watts Needle Valve.. I got all 3 of mines at HomeDepot.


----------



## MeanGreenEyes

ddtran46 said:


> Sorry to hear about your paintball regulator. I actually have the same one and I did have problems with it. It leaked where the gauge was at(this is probably the reason why my paintball tank only lasted for 2 months). I had to take out the gauge and cover the hole where the gauge use to be. Now I have a co2 controller that doesn't show how much co2 left I have in the paintball tank.:icon_frow


Well I tried to take off the gauge and the other piece to add teflon tape to make sure there were no leaks at those joints and they wouldn't come off w/ a crescent wrench...I sat on the phone for a good half hour...was put on hold several times and nobody knew what the hell they were talking about...the guy tried to tell me that the gauge on the one on the sales floor was reading 2,000lbs...spoke w/ several people and nobody knew anything...smdh. I tried to add an inline watts needle valve home depot part# A-42 and when I barely opened the valve the co2 line blew up like a bubble and popped. Yes...I am a woman but I've never had a problem w/ diy projects before...so I'm not a complete idiot...may not know all the tech terms...but I'm good w/ my hands...it's just very frustrating. The only reason that I went this route was b/c the watts needle valve wasn't available at the local home depot store or available to be shipped to nyc...so I figured that I had found my solution to an affordable co2 setup since I'll be connecting this to 3/4 tanks...so I wanted to try this first before I bought 3 more of these...


----------



## MeanGreenEyes

Jaggedfury said:


> What size co2 paintball tank are you guys using? I'm curious to why the Watts Needle Valve is not working perfectly for others, but is for some. I have 3 running at the moment. Been running for months now.
> 
> 1 - 20oz Paintball co2 tank, Custom Products (CP) ASA ON/OFF Valve, Watts Needle Valve, Gauge.
> 2 - 20oz Paintball co2 tank, ShockTech (ST) ASA ON/OFF Valve, Watts Needle Valve, No Gauge.
> 3 - 24oz Paintball co2 tank, ShockTech (ST) ASA ON/OFF Valve, Watts Needle Valve, No Gauge.
> 
> No problems at all. Consistent bubbles, no decrease in flows, easily adjustable down to 1bps. Set it up, haven't touch it since.
> 
> Exception of 24oz setup on 2bps.
> 
> Where are you guys buying your Watts Needle Valve.. I got all 3 of mines at HomeDepot.


I haven't tried the watts needle valve b/c it's not available in NYC or to be shipped to NYC from home depot...so idk about it's failure rate w/ other people. I am using 20oz paintball tanks though...if I end up going w/ the asa on/off valve and taking up antbug on his offer to ship me the watts needle valve is whick asa on/off do you recommend...Custom Products or ShockTech?


----------



## NickS

MeanGreenEyes said:


> Ok...thanks again...I definitely will post whether or not it works b/c there was a few people interested in buying it...


Please do let us know how the replacement works. I almost bought one of these...

Today I bought one of the Deltrol Needle Valves on eBay (110454514004) for $13 shipped. Hoping that works better than the Watts valve.

JaggedFury: I got my valve at Lowes and no matter what I do with it, it's inconsistent. I might give it one more shot at testing under water for leaks but I did that when I initially set it up and it was fine. Also, all my connections are taped and tight as can be. I would be very surprised to find a leak.


----------



## Jaggedfury

We'll all I can say it, I would be frustrated too if I were in your positions. I understand where you guys are coming from. Even though my location being as Sacramento, California.. homedepot website states it doesn't sell it also. But it does instore. Misleading. Anyways, if you want to try it out one more time, I would opt in purchasing one at homedepot instead..? Might just be a lowes thing. 

As far as MeanGreenEyes's question.. either one doesn't matter. They're both equally good in quality and brand. ST has somewhat of edge appearance to their on/off valve and cp is more of a curvy appearance.


----------



## Noahma

I now have it on a 20 oz tank, and I just played with the tightness of the needle nut, and well... its working very well now.


----------



## Jaggedfury

It seems like to me, the problem is where the nut on the needle valve adjuster arm is at. From going back a few pages, it seems like that's the area of problem. Either people are over tightening it too far, or not enough. When it's dead on, it works fine. 

Is that what your referring to Noahma?


----------



## Noahma

Yep, I think that is what is happening, over tightening causes the rubber gasket to fold up a bit and leak, and under tightening it leaks as well. I still think I may have a tiny itsy bitsy leak because over the course of a week it slows just a tad, but other than that, its working GREAT.


----------



## NickS

Jaggedfury said:


> It seems like to me, the problem is where the nut on the needle valve adjuster arm is at. From going back a few pages, it seems like that's the area of problem. Either people are over tightening it too far, or not enough. When it's dead on, it works fine.
> 
> Is that what your referring to Noahma?


This is probably true. I have experimented with the tightness of this nut but I never found "dead on."

Since there seems to be inconsistencies with this valve with more than a few people, I would suggest getting the Deltrol valve for the extra money. It's only a few bucks and it's rated 2000 PSI.

$13 for a sure thing with the added bonus of peace of mind (no metal parts possibly blowing out) seems worth it.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Sounds good, Go for the Deltrol Valve for the people experiencing problems. This isn't a must set setup where you have to use the Watts Needle Valve. It's just a post that I've wanted to share with people in ways they can use co2 injection from a paintball tank. In the mean time, I'll stick with my working Watts Needle Valves until I get any problem. 
Someone should list the Swage.. needle valve, since a few folks are interested in that also. I'm not sure what model number that is though.


----------



## NickS

Jaggedfury said:


> It's just a post that I've wanted to share with people in ways they can use co2 injection from a paintball tank.


This whole post is awesome. Never would have gotten into pressurized co2 without it, man.

It got me started.

I went and bought a used 20# tank last night, too.


----------



## antbug

Razgrizs said:


> Hi guys, Ive been reading this thread for awhile and thought id throw in something i found....
> I found an on/off asa via Amazon.com. http://www.amazon.com/32-Degrees-Qu...=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1288247098&sr=1-1
> 
> I haven't bought it yet . but if it works it seems like a great deal.


This is the ASA I got and it works great!



Jaggedfury said:


> Sounds good, Go for the Deltrol Valve for the people experiencing problems. This isn't a must set setup where you have to use the Watts Needle Valve. It's just a post that I've wanted to share with people in ways they can use co2 injection from a paintball tank. In the mean time, I'll stick with my working Watts Needle Valves until I get any problem.
> Someone should list the Swage.. needle valve, since a few folks are interested in that also. I'm not sure what model number that is though.


I got my Swage from Nikki, maybe she can post the part number. The thing is dead on!


----------



## keithy

part number for swagelok is B-ORM2.


----------



## keithy

MeanGreenEyes,
I know sometimes it is hard to control flow on valves. I have been working with valves in the lab for a few years and found that it is difficult to control flow in a pressurised system like this. try it again by first opening the valve a tad(just a bit). Don't worry about wasting co2 as it is better to get the valve setting correct first. After this is done, look at your bubble counter and try to close the valve in very small increments. Even with the deltrol needle valve I was using, I had to "practice" a few times before I get the setting right (my hands are pretty large so it takes a little bit of "strength" calibration).
If you want to add an inline valve, that will make flow control a little easier. Try to use a brass connector between the needle valve to your other valve(just like what I did with my setup bridging the asa valve and the deltrol valve). Although you have stepped down the pressure a little that may enable you to use the Watts valve, however, the problem is the tubing between the two valve will have to hold whatever pressure between the two valves. But using brass part between the two valves will eliminate the blow off due to too high of pressure. Let me know if you need any more help I will be more than happy to attack the problem with you. 





MeanGreenEyes said:


> Well I tried to take off the gauge and the other piece to add teflon tape to make sure there were no leaks at those joints and they wouldn't come off w/ a crescent wrench...I sat on the phone for a good half hour...was put on hold several times and nobody knew what the hell they were talking about...the guy tried to tell me that the gauge on the one on the sales floor was reading 2,000lbs...spoke w/ several people and nobody knew anything...smdh. I tried to add an inline watts needle valve home depot part# A-42 and when I barely opened the valve the co2 line blew up like a bubble and popped. Yes...I am a woman but I've never had a problem w/ diy projects before...so I'm not a complete idiot...may not know all the tech terms...but I'm good w/ my hands...it's just very frustrating. The only reason that I went this route was b/c the watts needle valve wasn't available at the local home depot store or available to be shipped to nyc...so I figured that I had found my solution to an affordable co2 setup since I'll be connecting this to 3/4 tanks...so I wanted to try this first before I bought 3 more of these...


----------



## atticus27

I finally got a paintball co2 DIY set up up and running last night! but i ran into 2 problems. 

Problem 1, When i did a water check, the needle valve part was leaking so plenty trial and error was needed. then once that stopped, i found out the check valve region began to leak about 2bps ish. jaggedfury, according to your "number picture" back on page 3 (somewhere there lol) it is below #7, you actually dont have a number there lol. Is there a way to fix this or should I return it back lol. I'm not sure how often this happens to people. 

Problem 2, i cannot get the consistency of 1bps or 2bps to stay at that through out the night. I set it to 1 or 2bps last night and i woke up to find it not bubbling. is this due to the temperature? it is also winter and cold in my room so maybe since it's colder there is less pressure? can someone shed some light on this, thanks.


----------



## Noahma

keep playing around with the needle nut. i had the same issue as your number 2, and I just had to find the right amount of tightness in order for it to fully seal. Right now I can keep a consistent bubble rate.


----------



## chumlee

Noahma said:


> keep playing around with the needle nut. i had the same issue as your number 2, and I just had to find the right amount of tightness in order for it to fully seal. Right now I can keep a consistent bubble rate.


So is it possible to make it too tight? Btw I was staring at your icon and was like WHY ARENT ANY OF MY PICTURES LOADING and then I read it and was like crap!


----------



## happi

here is how mine looks like, hooking up the co2 tube was pain in the A**


----------



## NickS

happi said:


> here is how mine looks like, hooking up the co2 tube was pain in the A**



Looks good but be sure to push that tube all the way down over that lip on the diffuser. Otherwise it'll just pop off eventually or if you try to move it around.


----------



## chumlee

happi said:


> here is how mine looks like, hooking up the co2 tube was pain in the A**


If you mean sticking it through the little nut thing then for future references, if you cut the tube at a 45 degree angle, like to make a point with the airline, and then use pliers to get it through, that works for me every time. 

I just set up mine today and It's running great at 2bps, took me less than 20min. I might be experiencing needle valve floating but im not sure, I dont think so but Ill check in the morning. Im using a hagen ladder to diffuse the bubbles but Im going to get a glass diffuser (ON MY CHRISTMAS LIST , now that I was able to remove pressurized c02 system from it :hihi

I have one question, With the on/off valve (the one that connects to the tank) can you use that to adjust the pressure a little bit or can It only be used open/closed, and not in between?


----------



## jeremyblevins

it's only open/closed due to the fact that the co2 tank has a pin valve it's either shut or pushed open. and i' have mine feeding a hagen ladder too until i get my inline reactor built.


----------



## happi

chumlee said:


> If you mean sticking it through the little nut thing then for future references, if you cut the tube at a 45 degree angle, like to make a point with the airline, and then use pliers to get it through, that works for me every time.
> 
> I just set up mine today and It's running great at 2bps, took me less than 20min. I might be experiencing needle valve floating but im not sure, I dont think so but Ill check in the morning. Im using a hagen ladder to diffuse the bubbles but Im going to get a glass diffuser (ON MY CHRISTMAS LIST , now that I was able to remove pressurized c02 system from it :hihi
> 
> I have one question, With the on/off valve (the one that connects to the tank) can you use that to adjust the pressure a little bit or can It only be used open/closed, and not in between?


you will loose co2 through the on/off valve, i think it is due to safety and that is why its setup like that. you will tight up the on/off valve and then adust the co2 from the needle valve. its kind of hard to get the right co2.


----------



## chumlee

I think that my needle valve is floating, do any of you know if it is possible to over tighten the needle nut? I really tightened the hell out of it, and one poster above said that they had to adjust that nut a bit to get it right.


----------



## Noahma

chumlee said:


> So is it possible to make it too tight? Btw I was staring at your icon and was like WHY ARENT ANY OF MY PICTURES LOADING and then I read it and was like crap!


lol I have been waiting for someone to comment on the avatar pic. 

Yea, the nut can be too tight. There is a little rubber seal inside, if you over tighten it, it pushes out of the way. If it is too lose, it wont seal.


----------



## chumlee

Heres a picture of my setup Working good after a few days.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Greattttt!! After going through a few photos, I take it people don't opt for the "Gauge". Which is cool, I would of guessed that people would went for it.


----------



## Barristan

Still waiting for my Deltrol to show up. It should be here by tomorrow or Friday. Anyone else get theirs yet?


----------



## Noahma

Jaggedfury said:


> Greattttt!! After going through a few photos, I take it people don't opt for the "Gauge". Which is cool, I would of guessed that people would went for it.


I for one did lol I don't want to end up with an empty bottle and a tank of algae before I notice the bottle is empty lol


----------



## NickS

My Deltrol has not arrived yet and I've heard not a peep from the seller...starting to wonder...


----------



## chumlee

Jaggedfury said:


> Greattttt!! After going through a few photos, I take it people don't opt for the "Gauge". Which is cool, I would of guessed that people would went for it.


I really wanted a gauge but my local paintball shop wanted 20$ so I decided not to get it. I thought it would wouldve been great to have, but Im still keeping a lookout for a cheap one.


----------



## swissian

Amazon has many gauges for cheap. I got mine for under $7 shipped!


----------



## RuggerMSC

NickS said:


> My Deltrol has not arrived yet and I've heard not a peep from the seller...starting to wonder...



I think I bought form the same seller, because Mine hasn't even been shipped yet, and I bought it 1 week ago. I bought form this seller " pegmystic3zkp" hope it is just a holiday issue.


----------



## NickS

RuggerMSC said:


> I think I bought form the same seller, because Mine hasn't even been shipped yet, and I bought it 1 week ago. I bought form this seller " pegmystic3zkp" hope it is just a holiday issue.


Same seller. I emailed him yesterday, got a response this morning:

"it is in the mail. should be there soon." 

Then later this afternoon:

"Shipped yesterday. You will see it tomorrow."

Seems like they're a little unorganized, but I hope nothing more than that...


----------



## happi

if you feel you are leaking co2, please check this area, but you can fix this issue by adjusting the valve.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Regarding that photo of the leakage point, I just liked to state that not all the ASA ON/OFF valve have those tiny holes. Can it really leak found there? I would think that's a slot for the paintball gun to slip onto and those 2 pin holes would allow the gun to stay securely in place.


----------



## codegono

I had a on/off valve that was leaking co2 from a similar hole. I took the valve and tank back the paintball shop and the guys there told me it was the
little O ring that goes on the tank and it sometimes tares a small hole when you remove the on/off valve and you don't release all the pressure before removing it. Well they replaced it and it worked perfectly!!! They kind enough to give me some extra!!

The only problem I am still having the what I see alot of people are having and that's the co2 stops running after several hours
I seriously think it has to do with the quality and the tightness as stated on previous posts. I would like to make sure before I order the Deltrol valve that I need to get the extra male and female attachments as shown on Kiethy's pics???????

"the greatest thread ever!" keep it going!!!!!


----------



## keithy

codegono said:


> I had a on/off valve that was leaking co2 from a similar hole. I took the valve and tank back the paintball shop and the guys there told me it was the
> little O ring that goes on the tank and it sometimes tares a small hole when you remove the on/off valve and you don't release all the pressure before removing it. Well they replaced it and it worked perfectly!!! They kind enough to give me some extra!!
> 
> The only problem I am still having the what I see alot of people are having and that's the co2 stops running after several hours
> I seriously think it has to do with the quality and the tightness as stated on previous posts. I would like to make sure before I order the Deltrol valve that I need to get the extra male and female attachments as shown on Kiethy's pics???????
> 
> "the greatest thread ever!" keep it going!!!!!


if you order the model (FMF10BK), it already comes with a male input end. you only need the male barb fitting at the output end. I was sent a wrong valve model(I believe it was FP10BK), which has a female input and female output. But as far as the internl mechanics of the valve is concern, its the same deal as the FMF10BK.


----------



## NickS

keithy said:


> if you order the model (FMF10BK), it already comes with a male input end. you only need the male barb fitting at the output end. I was sent a wrong valve model(I believe it was FP10BK), which has a female input and female output. But as far as the internl mechanics of the valve is concern, its the same deal as the FMF10BK.


These barb fittings are available at Home Depot or Lowe's right? I think I've seen them there. My Deltrol valve is supposed to arrive today (or Friday).


----------



## keithy

NickS said:


> These barb fittings are available at Home Depot or Lowe's right? I think I've seen them there. My Deltrol valve is supposed to arrive today (or Friday).


NickS, I bought my ba4rb fitting from DoItBest hardware because it is the nearest from where I live. if you have problem finding the barb fitting, let me know and we can work something out.


----------



## Jaggedfury

codegono said:


> I had a on/off valve that was leaking co2 from a similar hole. I took the valve and tank back the paintball shop and the guys there told me it was the
> little O ring that goes on the tank and it sometimes tares a small hole when you remove the on/off valve and you don't release all the pressure before removing it. Well they replaced it and it worked perfectly!!! They kind enough to give me some extra!!
> 
> The only problem I am still having the what I see alot of people are having and that's the co2 stops running after several hours
> I seriously think it has to do with the quality and the tightness as stated on previous posts. I would like to make sure before I order the Deltrol valve that I need to get the extra male and female attachments as shown on Kiethy's pics???????
> 
> "the greatest thread ever!" keep it going!!!!!


People overlook that rubber seal that goes onto the paintball cylinder thread itself. When purchasing a paintball tank, make sure that O ring is in not rip condition. Although it can rip, from removing and installing the ASA On/Off valve over a period of time. As far as the leakage goes, I'm still not sure how to direct you guys on that. Let's hope that the Deltrol valve route that people are taking works the same as previous successful people have rigged up. Mine are fine just with the Watts needle valve. Still counting months. Going strong for 4th month in about 2 and half more weeks!:bounce:


----------



## chumlee

Hey jaggedfury, how tight did you make your needle valve nut (the one that a lot of people were forgetting to tighten). Did you just hand tighten it or wrench it until it physically wouldn't go anymore?


----------



## Jaggedfury

I first hand tighten to where I'm not able to anymore. Then I put a crescent wrench on it and give it a slight turn no more than 1/2''. I followed this method will all the parts that needs to be tighten other than the ASA On/Off valve itself. That can be hand tighten which will be fine.

This method, I used with my gauge also. You will need a decent size crescent wrench, since the Gauge itself is 1'' inch in diameter. 

Please keep in mind if you over-tighten it already with a wrench and it leaks. Open it up and inspect the rubber black washer that goes inside the needle valve nut, before you go and try my method. If that rubber black washer is anyhow "damage" it will result in a defective unit.

Just curious, After you guys set the whole system up and when it comes time to put it in the bucket of water with it slightly the needle valve open, how long do you guys keep it under water to check for leaks? Depending how much you open the needle valve (doesn't take much to open it, comparing the width of a toothpick size) you should see leaks if there is leaks. What I do is submerse the whole system, minus the diffuser into a "Fish tank's water" that way I can spin the entire paintball tank around and observe if there's any slight co2 gas coming out of every entry point (Thread). I keep this at least close to a 1 minute for inspection. Just remember it only takes a slight adjustment on the needle valve to open it, if you crank it up too much you'll lose alot of co2 gas.

Here is my method of turning on this system also. 

-Release the co2 gas from the paintball tank into the ASA On/Off Valve by first opening the Top Nob on the ASA On/Off Valve until you aren't able to with your hand. (The Top Nob(Valve) should have grooves to help aid in turning it on and off)
-Now slightly turn on your Needle Valve next, and watch your diffuser for a few seconds until you see co2 gas coming out of the diffuser. Depending on how much it's releasing, you can kind of eyeball it and realize if your co2 gas is releasing too much or too little, if so adjust it to desire level. Examine it for a minute or two and readjust, as it takes some time for the co2 gas to travel to the diffuser. After a good 5 minutes, you should be able to adjust it to desirable level where it will stay constant. I never had any problems with it, what's why I said it should stay constant after that last desirable adjustment.

There are some folks that are going a different route in turning the system on. Here's what I noticed.
-Slightly open needle valve first
-Open the ASA On/Off valve nob 

I do not know if either way will hinder the outcome of the unit's co2 gas release. I am also not sure if that would put stress on other parts as well such as washers and so fort. Try both method of "Start up" and give me updates.


----------



## chumlee

Jaggedfury said:


> I first hand tighten to where I'm not able to anymore. Then I put a crescent wrench on it and give it a slight turn no more than 1/2''. I followed this method will all the parts that needs to be tighten other than the ASA On/Off valve itself. That can be hand tighten which will be fine.
> 
> This method, I used with my gauge also. You will need a decent size crescent wrench, since the Gauge itself is 1'' inch in diameter.
> 
> Please keep in mind if you over-tighten it already with a wrench and it leaks. Open it up and inspect the rubber black washer that goes inside the needle valve nut, before you go and try my method. If that rubber black washer is anyhow "damage" it will result in a defective unit.


Yeah, im not having any problems with leaking, just a floating valve, thats it.


----------



## Jaggedfury

I just updated the last post, of mines. You might want to take a look at it. I'm won't be able to answer your floating valve issue, as to I don't have any problem with mines. Set it and go. I'm aiming for 5-6 months on a full filled paintball tank 20z and 24oz. There was an updated on 11/11 (Low 700ish psi) a few pages back, at the moment it's still holding strong at above 600ish psi.


----------



## chumlee

Jaggedfury said:


> I just updated the last post, of mines. You might want to take a look at it. I'm won't be able to answer your floating valve issue, as to I don't have any problem with mines. Set it and go. I'm aiming for 5-6 months on a full filled paintball tank 20z and 24oz. There was an updated on 11/11 (Low 700ish psi) a few pages back, at the moment it's still holding strong at above 600ish psi.


Yeah, I keep my needle valve closed and then turn on my ASA on/off. I have noticed that adjusting the tightness on the needle valve nut does affect how steady the rate stays. I just need to find the perfect tightness. Thanks for the quick replies btw.


----------



## jeremyblevins

well i had to refill my tank today but i think it's just because it was the first bottle testing everything, not to mention my bubble rate kept fluctuating so i kept having to readjust using more co2 then it should've.


----------



## happi

i just have to use the 2nd bottle, my first bottle lasted for 2 days due to leak.

am thinking about spending more money on something that will work without dealing with this leaking.


----------



## Noahma

happi said:


> i just have to use the 2nd bottle, my first bottle lasted for 2 days due to leak.
> 
> am thinking about spending more money on something that will work without dealing with this leaking.


my first bottle was bad, The guy at the paintball shop told me that the valves in them are very simple, and if they break, they break right away. Are you sure your o-ring is not ripped at the top of the tank itself?

I have had absolutely no problems once I got the needle tightness figured out.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Wow, that sucks. 2 Days only off of one refilled bottle? And you're not able to see the leakage underwater? Not even a slight tiny co2 bubble forming up?


----------



## Noahma

Jaggedfury said:


> Wow, that sucks. 2 Days only off of one refilled bottle? And you're not able to see the leakage underwater? Not even a slight tiny co2 bubble forming up?


I was kind of confused too. Seems like you would have seen some bubbles when checking for leaks.


----------



## Jaggedfury

850Psi is alot to go missing without a single pin-point leak of a bubble. Are you sure it was filled up full? I would imagine that you'll at least hear a hissing sound for that much co2 gas to leak out within 2 days.


----------



## Cloudfish

Regarding leak checking, here's how I check for leaks for just about everything--from O2 and acetylene tanks to my gas grill. Just get a cheap plastic spray bottle (Wal-Mart, K-Mart, really any store) and make a very weak solution of dish soap and water. Then just spray a little bit on your connections. Anywhere there's a leak will produce very recognizable soap bubbles--then just wipe away the soapy water with a rag. :icon_cool


----------



## happi

i have tried all the things and to see where it leaks. it leaks from the hole posted in the pic and it also leak from the on/off valve if i try to tight it too much. soon as i try to tight it all the way the co2 leak like crazy from there and that hole.


----------



## Blackwater13

Cloudfish said:


> Regarding leak checking, here's how I check for leaks for just about everything--from O2 and acetylene tanks to my gas grill. Just get a cheap plastic spray bottle (Wal-Mart, K-Mart, really any store) and make a very weak solution of dish soap and water. Then just spray a little bit on your connections. Anywhere there's a leak will produce very recognizable soap bubbles--then just wipe away the soapy water with a rag. :icon_cool



I deal in HVACR and soap and soap water works great as do common bubbles (what I use) that you buy your kid. Take a Q-tip dip it in the bubbles and rub it around any connection you want to leak check. If its leaking you'll know right away.


----------



## Barristan

I received my valve.... it don't work. It will not shut off completely.


----------



## NickS

I got my Deltrol valve today and it's great...except it won't CLOSE!!!

I got it all hooked up and had it shut tight. Hooked it up to my diffuser and there's CO2 coming out at like 10 bps.

The thing is not brand new either. It definitely looks used. Apparently NEW IN BOX! doesn't mean what I thought it did...


----------



## MeanGreenEyes

NickS said:


> I got my Deltrol valve today and it's great...except it won't CLOSE!!!
> 
> I got it all hooked up and had it shut tight. Hooked it up to my diffuser and there's CO2 coming out at like 10 bps.
> 
> The thing is not brand new either. It definitely looks used. Apparently NEW IN BOX! doesn't mean what I thought it did...


Thanks for letting us know...was literally on ebay just now about to buy three of these but luckily got busy at work...


----------



## Barristan

NickS said:


> I got my Deltrol valve today and it's great...except it won't CLOSE!!!
> 
> I got it all hooked up and had it shut tight. Hooked it up to my diffuser and there's CO2 coming out at like 10 bps.
> 
> The thing is not brand new either. It definitely looks used. Apparently NEW IN BOX! doesn't mean what I thought it did...


same here.


----------



## MeanGreenEyes

Btw...has anyone tried these asa on/off's from amazon.com...they seem extremely cheap compared to the $30+ price tag's everywhere else...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001MY331Q/ref=ord_cart_shr?ie=UTF8&m=A2U0512136ZIU7


----------



## NickS

Barristan said:


> I received my valve.... it don't work. It will not shut off completely.


Wow you were posting at the same time I did. I sent an email to the seller. Will see what he says...


----------



## keithy

NickS said:


> Wow you were posting at the same time I did. I sent an email to the seller. Will see what he says...


 
if the valve cannot close, it is definately defective. Mine closed fine.


----------



## NickS

He refunded my money, but this is what he said: "All of my Deltrol valves are brand new. Brass tarnishes. They are needle valve, not shut-off valves. They are mean't to meter the flow not stop it. While in certain cases they can be used as shut-off valves, they are not meant to be used that way. I will simply credit you for the item."

Brash tarnishes, yes, but does it get scratches on it from oxidation? I really don't think so. Anyway, I'm not a pneumatics expert so is what he saying accurate? The Wikipedia article on needle valves implies that they do close: "Unlike a ball valve, or valves with a rising stem, it is not easy to tell from examining the handle position whether the valve is open or closed."

Can any experts verify this?

Either way, it looks the moral of the story is that a 1/3 success rate for these valves indicates that they're not good for this application...


----------



## manhatton

Thanks again to OP for this.

FYI--I see a few people have used the System X ASA off ebay and had luck. The threads on mine were trashed, but for $4 shipped I'm not surprised. 

Looking forward to receiving a quality on/off to get this going!


----------



## jeffvmd

@manhatton - I got a blue system x asa for my third set up off ebay and mine was fine.
You must have just gotten a defective one.

@Nicks - try using pliers to close the needle valve fully.
I thought my parker valves were defective when I tried to close them with bare hands. Its hard to fully close it with 800+ psi trying to come out without pliers.


----------



## NickS

jeffvmd said:


> @Nicks - try using pliers to close the needle valve fully. I thought my parker valves were defective when I tried to close them with bare hands. Its hard to fully close it with 800+ psi trying to come out without pliers.


Ok, I'll try it. I tightened it pretty well with just my hand and it was still coming out like 10 bps. It seems like I would have to tighten it a heck of a lot more to get it to close.

Also, I noticed while spinning the knob that it has a it little bit of wobble like the threaded shaft has been bent...


----------



## zz_its_me

*Dertrol Valve*

Hello,

I've been following this thread for a couple weeks with interest. I ordered parts from iisports.com. Bob long on/off $7.99 (though it does have that side hole that was reported as leaking hope mine doesn't), Guage $3.99 and 20oz tank for $22.50. Ater looking at the Lowes needle valve I decided on the Detrol valve from ebay since it looked stronger. 

Well yesterday I got all my parts, checked back here to set stuff up, and to my dismay found that others were having trouble with the detrol valve. I checked mine and sure enough I could blow through it :drool:. I wasn't closing either. (as to it being new, I would say mine is new, but must be quite old stock as the brass is tarnished). 

OK to the point of this post. I haven't had a chance to get the CO2 filled yet, but I did tighten up the valve. I'll use KIETHY's photo to illustrate.

On my valve there is a nut under the knob. This was screwed down a few threads that prevented the knob from fully closing. Unscrew this up against the knob first and see if your valve seals. Mine did not (blow through test) 

Then I opened the valve as far as possible, and tighted the nut at the body of the valve 1/4 turn with a 10mm wrench. The valve now passes the blow through test. It may be several days before I can get the CO2 tank filled for a full pressure test but at least this improved the valve with the blow through test, and I would estimate that I still have about 1 full turn of the nut if it doesn't pass the 800psi test.

I hope this helps, and maybe one of you with the valve and a full tank can test this theroy. Also a big thanks to the original poster of this whole CO2 system.


----------



## keithy

NickS said:


> He refunded my money, but this is what he said: "All of my Deltrol valves are brand new. Brass tarnishes. They are needle valve, not shut-off valves. They are mean't to meter the flow not stop it. While in certain cases they can be used as shut-off valves, they are not meant to be used that way. I will simply credit you for the item."
> QUOTE]
> 
> 
> Nicks,
> I do not think he knows what he's talking about. Although the deltrol valve is a needle valve, but, the valve is not named needle valve in deltrol's specs sheet. It is named FLOW CONTROL VALVE. Let me repeat and highlight the word *FLOW CONTROL*. If the valve cannot shut off, then how in the world is it suppose to control flow? Just want to let you know that the seller might not know enough info about the item and made a erronous comment to cover his a**. In addition, what good is a valve when it cannot even shut off? might as well not have a valve.


----------



## codegono

Ok, so has anyone found a needle valve that works better then the Watts valve and the Deltrol valve??????????
I keep having the annoying problem of the valve slowing down then shutting down completely.

HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## NickS

zz_its_me said:


> On my valve there is a nut under the knob. This was screwed down a few threads that prevented the knob from fully closing. Unscrew this up against the knob first and see if your valve seals. Mine did not (blow through test)
> 
> Then I opened the valve as far as possible, and tighted the nut at the body of the valve 1/4 turn with a 10mm wrench. The valve now passes the blow through test. It may be several days before I can get the CO2 tank filled for a full pressure test but at least this improved the valve with the blow through test, and I would estimate that I still have about 1 full turn of the nut if it doesn't pass the 800psi test.


I did try this but I will give it another attempt this week when I have some time. I'm fairly certain I got that nut as tight as it would go.

Also, the valve in this picture looks sparkling compared to the one I got. I'll see about posting a pic.

Either way, I got my money back so it's not a big deal. Just have to find something that works now. I might take a trip to a local pneumatics place this week.


----------



## NickS

keithy said:


> Nicks,
> I do not think he knows what he's talking about. Although the deltrol valve is a needle valve, but, the valve is not named needle valve in deltrol's specs sheet. It is named FLOW CONTROL VALVE. Let me repeat and highlight the word *FLOW CONTROL*. If the valve cannot shut off, then how in the world is it suppose to control flow? Just want to let you know that the seller might not know enough info about the item and made a erronous comment to cover his a**. In addition, what good is a valve when it cannot even shut off? might as well not have a valve.


Yes, CYA is what I was assuming here, too.


----------



## keithy

NickS said:


> Yes, CYA is what I was assuming here, too.


NickS, 
if you still have not returned the watts needle valve, you can try combine the two valves together and I am almost certain it will work. In theory, the Deltrol holds most of the pressure while the watts act as the real control valve. If you use this config, the watts valve will not have to bear the full 800psi and should work as a control. 

Since the deltrol did not completely shut off, let it be and attach the watts valve right after the deltrol. Turn off the deltrol all the way. Use Watts to control flow.


----------



## chumlee

keithy said:


> NickS,
> if you still have not returned the watts needle valve, you can try combine the two valves together and I am almost certain it will work. In theory, the Deltrol holds most of the pressure while the watts act as the real control valve. If you use this config, the watts valve will not have to bear the full 800psi and should work as a control.
> 
> Since the deltrol did not completely shut off, let it be and attach the watts valve right after the deltrol. Turn off the deltrol all the way. Use Watts to control flow.


So can we buy multiple needle valves for a more consistent system? We would be able to connect them through a 1/8 to 1/8 adapter or whatever it is.


----------



## keithy

chumlee said:


> So can we buy multiple needle valves for a more consistent system? We would be able to connect them through a 1/8 to 1/8 adapter or whatever it is.


you don't want to do that because of the cost. But since NickS already have both and he got a refund for the bad deltrol, maybe he could use it to his advantage[in this case it will work because the watts valve will not have to deal with 800psi anymore if combined in series]. But I would not recomend buying multiple valves because it may end up costly.


----------



## chumlee

6 + 6 = 12 dollars, im only 16 but I think I can manage  but in theory it would work? I might buy another one tomorrow !!!


----------



## keithy

chumlee said:


> 6 + 6 = 12 dollars, im only 16 but I think I can manage  but in theory it would work? I might buy another one tomorrow !!!


 
6? how did you come up with 6 + 6? 

Oh..... if you are planing to get 2 watts valve it will NOT work. I am saying the deltrol valve first then the watts valve

CO2 tank-->ASA-->deltrol-->watts-->co2 tubing (will work in theory)


----------



## chumlee

Oh sorry, the home depot/ lowes ones are 6 dollars. Im using one now and it is pretty consistent but I would like some more consistency. I didnt mean it to be obnoxious if thats how it sounded , sorry .


----------



## keithy

chumlee said:


> Oh sorry, the home depot/ lowes ones are 6 dollars. Im using one now and it is pretty consistent but I would like some more consistency. I didnt mean it to be obnoxious if thats how it sounded , sorry .


NO, I was trying to reply fast because I know you're online now. I am sorry if I sounded rude. Yeah, if the first valve works, then providing second valve should give you better control. But, again, the more fitting/connection, the more places for the gas to leak. Do test for leaks.


----------



## chumlee

Thanks, ill let you know how it goes, ill probably pick another one up sometime this week. Ive been pretty good with leaks so far so hopefully my luck continues. wait, whats that hissing noise?


----------



## NickS

Just tried tightening that nut and then tightened the knob with a wrench. Seemed to be working until the whole knob sheared off...


----------



## Jaggedfury

Try a Swagelok valve, a bit more money but a few people are using it with no problem. I'm using Watts myself, works for me and a few members also.


----------



## coldmantis

just wanted to ask a quick question, I remember when I first when to HD for the watts needle valve I saw two version but the same model, one when you completely take out the knob that turns it's an actual pointed needle like the ones you sew with and the other which is not pointed, which one are people using with the floating problem.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Pointed Needle, If I re-read your statement right. I read it a few times to understand it. Mine's Pointed. All three.


----------



## coldmantis

that could be the problem then if your is pointed like a real needle as in sharp and can pierce skin, I think most people who are having this float problem including me is using the one with a stump needle


----------



## MeanGreenEyes

Just found this on [Ebay Link Removed] it work?

search this "****** Swagelok 1/8" Brass Needle Valve B-OVM2-BKB"


----------



## Jaggedfury

coldmantis said:


> that could be the problem then if your is pointed like a real needle as in sharp and can pierce skin, I think most people who are having this float problem including me is using the one with a stump needle


I mean mines is stump needle (at first didn't quite understand what you meant.) As in the end of the needle valve adjuster arm is smoothed off flat. It isn't sharp. Refer back to a few pages, my photos are attached. I have no problem.



MeanGreenEyes said:


> Just found this on [Ebay Link Removed] it work?
> 
> search this "****** Swagelok 1/8" Brass Needle Valve B-OVM2-BKB"


I would opt to go this route for the people who's having problems with the Watts valves. Since you guys are replacing 2-3 of them already, taking into factor that everything is tighten right, I would lean toward the Swagelok B-OVM2-KBK valve instead. In the end result, our hopes is to have it working, if it doesn't work after numerous tries.. move up(upgrade).


----------



## MeanGreenEyes

Just bought 2 of these (****** Swagelok 1/8" Brass Needle Valve B-OVM2-BKB) to go on 2 of my setups...hopefully they work...


----------



## keithy

MeanGreenEyes said:


> Just bought 2 of these (****** Swagelok 1/8" Brass Needle Valve B-OVM2-BKB) to go on 2 of my setups...hopefully they work...



maybe not as easy to control, but should work with a little patience.... I think....

edit: I actually wanted to get the b-ovm2 before I decided to get the deltrol.... let us know how it does. Maybe this might be better than the deltrol. Did you check what max pressure rating is?

edit2: I just checked and pressure rating is 3000psi, more than enough. This valve might be a good one. Let us know.


----------



## coldmantis

are people here trying to run their bubble rate slower then 1bps or 2bps because I'm sure you can't with watts. If your going for like 1 bubble per 2,3,4 seconds you need a high grade needle valve like fabco nv55 or the really expensive ideal needle valves, today I just got one of these search for "CO2 Needle Valve - Regulator" on ebay, it's exactly like that but it only has one tube and the other is 1/8 thread just like the watts and even that one won't do 1 bubble per 2 seconds the slowest constant is like 1 bubble per 1.5 seconds


----------



## Noahma

coldmantis said:


> are people here trying to run their bubble rate slower then 1bps or 2bps because I'm sure you can't with watts. If your going for like 1 bubble per 2,3,4 seconds you need a high grade needle valve like fabco nv55 or the really expensive ideal needle valves, today I just got one of these search for "CO2 Needle Valve - Regulator" on ebay, it's exactly like that but it only has one tube and the other is 1/8 thread just like the watts and even that one won't do 1 bubble per 2 seconds the slowest constant is like 1 bubble per 1.5 seconds


you can get less, but man is it a hard feat. I have been running between 1-2 bps with very little problems in my 10 gal.


----------



## coldmantis

2bps for a 10g that is a lot you must be running a high flow HOB filter that agitates the water surface too much for you to need that much co2 in such a small tank, I'm running 1 bubble per 3 secs into my ehiem 2217 and my drop checker is green with a reference solution of 5dkh. I also spoke to soon that needle valve I just bought only run 1 bubble per 1.5 for a few hours I just checked it 1 bubble per 10 seconds now...... I just think it's too much psi for a needle valve to handle without a regulator to control it.


----------



## lovemmth

Hi all been watching this thread. Ordered all my parts about a month ago including a watts valve. Mine also kept closing or slowing down. Last week read some old threads and decided to try something I had read. Took the needle out of the valve and used teflon tape then reinstalled the needle only as tight as possable by hand then a quarter turn with a wrench. Checked for leaks set to 1bps reinstalled and have not had to reajust for one week.


----------



## Jaggedfury

lovemmth said:


> Hi all been watching this thread. Ordered all my parts about a month ago including a watts valve. Mine also kept closing or slowing down. Last week read some old threads and decided to try something I had read. Took the needle out of the valve and used teflon tape then reinstalled the needle only as tight as possable by hand then a quarter turn with a wrench. Checked for leaks set to 1bps reinstalled and have not had to reajust for one week.


Great! roud: I'm also using 1bps. Easily adjusted. Adjust a hairline and wait a few seconds, once bubbles starts to flow out of the diffuser (Should be a little only) then slightly give it a super tiny adjustment to set desire bubbles per second. Once set, it's set for months to go for.


----------



## NickS

lovemmth said:


> Hi all been watching this thread. Ordered all my parts about a month ago including a watts valve. Mine also kept closing or slowing down. Last week read some old threads and decided to try something I had read. Took the needle out of the valve and used teflon tape then reinstalled the needle only as tight as possable by hand then a quarter turn with a wrench. Checked for leaks set to 1bps reinstalled and have not had to reajust for one week.


Hmmm, I tried this with the tape but it seemed to make it worse for me. Perhaps I had the nut too tight. I may try this again over the next few days. The rubber seal on the Watts needle valve I have now is destroyed so I need to get a new one.


----------



## NickS

coldmantis said:


> just wanted to ask a quick question, I remember when I first when to HD for the watts needle valve I saw two version but the same model, one when you completely take out the knob that turns it's an actual pointed needle like the ones you sew with and the other which is not pointed, which one are people using with the floating problem.


Do you have the part number for this Watts "pointed" needle valve?

The one I was using had a wide concave end. The exact opposite of a point...


----------



## coldmantis

that's the thing it has the exact part number for some reason it was just pointed like a needle instead of a stump, I asked the person at HD about why some are pointed and some are not and she said "maybe a manufacturing defect?" lol


----------



## NickS

Ok, maybe I'll go to HD and start ripping open bags...


----------



## NickS

lovemmth said:


> Hi all been watching this thread. Ordered all my parts about a month ago including a watts valve. Mine also kept closing or slowing down. Last week read some old threads and decided to try something I had read. Took the needle out of the valve and used teflon tape then reinstalled the needle only as tight as possable by hand then a quarter turn with a wrench. Checked for leaks set to 1bps reinstalled and have not had to reajust for one week.


Read this again and had a question: Are you saying you taped the needle itself or the nut that holds it in place?


----------



## chumlee

lovemmth said:


> Hi all been watching this thread. Ordered all my parts about a month ago including a watts valve. Mine also kept closing or slowing down. Last week read some old threads and decided to try something I had read. Took the needle out of the valve and used teflon tape then reinstalled the needle only as tight as possable by hand then a quarter turn with a wrench. Checked for leaks set to 1bps reinstalled and have not had to reajust for one week.


I just did this after reading your post. I immediately notice that the little flow adjuster (the T part you turn) is much easier to control, i guess because of the teflon tape it gives it a little more cushion rather than metal on metal. I can come to a specific bubble rate much quicker now.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Here's a step by step of what you should do. Do in this order. This is my CP AS On/Off Valve.










































I won't bother to type directions since it's on the photos. Please read carefully and after that, if it's still leaking. Also inspect these areas as well. *In no way are you to remove the BURST thread even if you think your tank is at 0psi. *









Let me know.


----------



## lovemmth

I taped the nut that holds it in I didn't tape the needle. would like to try that but mine is working without it so better leave it for now and hope it keeps on working.


----------



## keithy

jaggedfury, nice illustration. The teflon tape on the needle trick is really cool. I think if anybody can make this work, the watts valve will be the most cost efficient route.


----------



## Jaggedfury

keithy said:


> jaggedfury, nice illustration. The teflon tape on the needle trick is really cool. I think if anybody can make this work, the watts valve will be the most cost efficient route.


Thanks. Are you guys just noticing that the Needle Valve Adjust Arm needs to be teflon taped? 

I hope you guys did realize this beforehand. I mentioned pages back to use telfon tape on every single threaded part which included the Needle Valve Adjust Arm thread also. (Minus the Burst Threaded part).

Try it and get back to me. Could of been the cause of all the mysterious leakage problems. If not then your needle valve is defective.


----------



## Cakeslob

here is one i made several months ago
Smartparts on off
SP horozontial max flow regulator
solenoid and needle valve that came with it


I recently made one today, but no solenoid 
same needle valve as you guys are using from homedupot but with about a ton less sealant =P
put a bit sealant on the on the the nob/oring thng retaining nut, the male end and the thread hose retaining nut and it had no problems leaking
I will post pictures tomorrow
I used
SPyder VS2/3 bottom line regulator/asa on off
metric to imperial fitting 
T adaptor
0-600 gauge
home depot brass needle valve 

I can post pictures of that one tomorrow if anyone would like


----------



## Jaggedfury

That's one sweet setup you got there. Nice! What's the total price for one of those so people can know about it.


----------



## Cakeslob

well, that tough

the solenoid i bought display model at a big als tent sale for $60 with larger tank fittings and all, which i do not wish to use and i dont have a larger tank

The regulator is from around 2000 and on off is from 2005 ish so i dont recall the costs

the total price to buy something similar today? 

$80 for a Female threaded regulator ( threads into the tank asa threads but does not have an on/off) 
$5 for a gauge (needed this time to see what you adjusted the pressure to)

then the cost of the sealant/ solenoid/ and 1/8 needle valve (like the home depot ones)

this can be done many ways to make it cheaper, but more complex using a mix mash of fitting, regulators and adaptors

the prices i posted are for a regulator designed for co2 and is a direct fit on to the paintball tank with simple mounting of the gauge and solenoid


----------



## Jaggedfury

Awesome, that's a little bit more than what I thought it would cost but none the less awesome rig.


----------



## MeanGreenEyes

Ugh...So I received those ****** Swagelok 1/8" brass needle valves (B-OVM2-BKB) rated 3,000psi...I received the the 32 Degrees Micro Gauges (1200psi)...already have the 2 paintball tanks...and my ASA on/off's that were ordered the same day from ebay were just sent out today...or should I say a shipping label was just now generated. So I'm still waiting...smdh. Now...I just need to figure out how I'm going to use this needle valve w/ this setup...i.e. connect the co2 tubing...

Here's a link to a pic of it...part number is listed above...it's the 2nd one down on the page...http://www.sportslinkup.com/shop/0-Swagelok-******-1.html


----------



## mmelnick

I read through the first few pages of this thread and then kind of skipped back to the end. So forgive me if this has been asked. But...

Am I going to be creating a potential bomb or a rocket if I just get an on/off valve and add a gauge and a needle valve? From what I can see most needle valves are only rated for about 150 PSI or so. And this method is backing them with 800 PSI.


----------



## Jaggedfury

That subject has been brought up within this thread. The Watts Needle Valve from Homdepot is max at 400psi. The Swagek Needle valves are a higher up there in the thousand psi mark, which suppress the 800psi you're referring to. I'm not sure about the Deltrol and every other needle valve used in this setup.

With that said, I myself is using all 3 Watts Needle Valve on all 3 of my paintball set that uses 20oz, 20oz and a 24oz paint ball tank. Two of these complete unit have been running since this early January of 2010. No problems what so ever. One of the paintball was setup sometime in the late summer, same needle valve as the others. 

If you're a cautious minded person, you can opt for the high rated psi needle valves which will cost a little more. It will give you a little peace and mind.


----------



## mmelnick

Jaggedfury said:


> That subject has been brought up within this thread. The Watts Needle Valve from Homdepot is max at 400psi. The Swagek Needle valves are a higher up there in the thousand psi mark, which suppress the 800psi you're referring to. I'm not sure about the Deltrol and every other needle valve used in this setup.
> 
> With that said, I myself is using all 3 Watts Needle Valve on all 3 of my paintball set that uses 20oz, 20oz and a 24oz paint ball tank. Two of these complete unit have been running since this early January of 2010. No problems what so ever. One of the paintball was setup sometime in the late summer, same needle valve as the others.
> 
> If you're a cautious minded person, you can opt for the high rated psi needle valves which will cost a little more. It will give you a little peace and mind.


Good to know that you've been OK with 3 tanks for that long running on the Home Depot valves.

I wil be using a 40 oz. tank though, do you think that will make any difference? Or will the PSI still be the same?


----------



## Jaggedfury

40oz tank as in Paintball sport related tank? Wouldn't that make it a Oxygen Tank instead? I thought co2 paintball tank capacity is max at a 24oz tank, any higher would be just a o2 tank? Correct me if I"m wrong. Although there are 32oz but those are old and I never seen one myself.

I just did some research and answer my own question. Anyways you might want to read the blow clipping I took from another website.

_*"Anyway.
Yes, 26oz, 32oz, and 40oz tanks were around in the mid 90s.

They were especially popular for backplayers, and scenerio types who didn't want to fill tanks often. This was also been when most players ran remotes, so the size was not much of an issue.

They were a pain to fill. I know since I worked at a field back then.

To answer the question: Yes, Catalina Cylinders still makes them. Plus they pop up on various forums from time to time (like MCB, and others).

Any old tanks will certaintly be out of hydro.

A better option is to look on Ebay for "2.5lb CO2 tank". 40oz co2 tanks are commonly used for homebrewers, and as small welding tanks, and other uses.

The only issue is that these tanks will have a Thermal valve, instead of a pin-valve, which will require an adapter (or drop an oring into the ASA).

You won't be able to swap a pinvalve from a 20oz to the 40oz since they usually used 3/4" threads instead of 5/8".*_

Post picture up of that 40 oz you have, I'd like to see it. If you somehow manage to get the 40 oz tank to work, I would opt for the higher rated psi needle valves like the Swagek to be on the safe side. Other than that, I do not have any information on the pressure of a 40 oz tank.


----------



## mmelnick

Yes, it's a 40 oz paintball tank. It was used on a paintball gun in the late 90's so your post seems to be right on. I'll have to measure it to see if it is somehow different. But it seemed to fit any "stock" paitball gun so I don't know for sure.

I'll try to get a pic of it as soon as I can. It will probably be a few days, but I'll post back here and see what you think.

Thanks for the info BTW.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Make sure it's safe before you try and use it. Hydro testing up to date and so fort. Might be dangerous to even use it. 20 oz and 24 oz are fairly cheap these days. You can grab them for less than $25 dollars.


----------



## ckarr

[email protected] said:


> Great post and series.
> As someone who has watched the planted tank discussions on and off for over fifteen years I have to say that sometimes older ideas cycle back around and are successful. Sometimes they are just re-cycled. Osmocote comes to mind. Big box store water grade needle valves is another.
> 
> Old UseNet threads are full of details from grad students who played with, tested, talked about, and accurately documented a lot of the issues we still chat about today. They're just harder to search and read then organized HTML pages.
> 
> The online planted tank community went through the big box needle valve trials many years ago.
> There are reasons people are paying $100 plus for regulators and needle valves. One is safety. At 800 psi if your $5.00 needle valve cap lets go, you have a small missile near your glass tank.
> 
> A second issue is that a tiny bit of moisture and CO2 under pressure makes an acidic combination that will eat at the cheap needle valve. One day the valve just stops being a needle valve, the paintball tank is empty, and the tank water suddenly stinks of dead fish. The people refilling paint ball tanks might not have been taught by certified gas handlers.
> 
> As long as people are aware of the dangers, this thread is a great way for people to get into pressurized CO2. PLEASE, if you go this route, start saving money for an standard industrial regulator and good quality needle valve.


 Nice post, I just had to quote the whole thing.  Please realize guys that there is a reason that the red sea system and others use a regulator. CO2 can be very dangerous when not used properly. It's america and lawsuits make lawyers rich. A regulator may raise the price of the unit but it also raises the safety levels considerably. Congrats to the canadian who just posted recently for adding a reg. from Smart Parts to his setup. 
The wrapped paintball tanks that are larger are for compressed air systems. For a paintballer it offers more stability as the pressure of CO2 isn't as consistant when it gets used quickly. CO2 in the tank is mostly in the form of a liquid and is sold by weight. When it's being filled the differance in the weight change in the container tells the fill station operator how much CO2 is going in the tank. 800 psi is the standard pressure of the gas part of CO2 in the tank. As gas leaves some of the CO2 can leave it's unstable liquid form, turn into a gas and fill the area that remains. Think of it like a soft drink. CO2 is in the drink, but given enough time it will turn into a gas, bubble out and escape. Keeping this in mind the 800psi gauge can't be used like a gas guage in a car. 20oz. of CO2 can make 800psi and 4oz. can too. Once the needle starts to leave 800 it should go down considerably faster than it started to move. It happens faster in paintball of course so it will be interesting to see how fast it goes here. I worked at a store where we used the red sea system on a 120 display tank. I wasn't as into plants them so I'm not sure how many bps we were running but if I do remember right we had to refill the tank every other month and that was also using a solenoid to cut it off at night.


----------



## Noahma

I plan to use the red sea nano setup on my 36 gal tank, we will see how it goes lol. I have a paintball store just miles from my house, they are real nice, and are very cheap to fill tanks with, so going every other month for a refill is not a problem, along with changing out the needle valve on my 10 gal every few months or so, to mitigate the co2 deterioration of the brass.


----------



## Chafire

Hey all, Jaggedfury had posted a link to this sellers link a while back on Pg #2 and I bought the On/Off valve for $5.00 + $5.99 shipping and It works perfectly fine. So just thought I would post a link to the same item on the sellers site. 

http://corporate.marketworks.com/st...il.aspx?sid=1&sfid=101468&c=254829&i=69077806

Also I tried out the needle valve from HD, and couldn't stand it at all so if people are willing to spend the extra money, I'd suggest either adding a solenoid like cakeslob did or just a better needle valve. Just check out Marine Depot or google JBJ needle valve, The JBJ's aren't the greatest ones out there but for $20 you get a two way splitter. I'm sure this has already been said but I'm just throwing out my two cents.

edit: just checked out shipping costs for the link above and they charge $15.99 for basic ground shipping, YIKES! guess I'll look around some more.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Chafire said:


> Hey all, Jaggedfury had posted a link to this sellers link a while back on Pg #2 and I bought the On/Off valve for $5.00 + $5.99 shipping and It works perfectly fine. So just thought I would post a link to the same item on the sellers site.
> 
> http://corporate.marketworks.com/st...il.aspx?sid=1&sfid=101468&c=254829&i=69077806
> 
> Also I tried out the needle valve from HD, and couldn't stand it at all so if people are willing to spend the extra money, I'd suggest either adding a solenoid like cakeslob did or just a better needle valve. Just check out Marine Depot or google JBJ needle valve, The JBJ's aren't the greatest ones out there but for $20 you get a two way splitter. I'm sure this has already been said but I'm just throwing out my two cents.
> 
> edit: just checked out shipping costs for the link above and they charge $15.99 for basic ground shipping, YIKES! guess I'll look around some more.


Yepp, the problem is not with the ASA ON/OFF valve. You're better off getting it from ebay for $9.99 shipped than $5.00 + $15.00 shipped. I would second other needle valves if you've tried at least a few time in using the Watts Needle Valve and having it fully tighten and teflon taped down. Try the Swagelok needle valve, from what I heard, it's works perfectly.. you just need to dish out a few more dollars.


----------



## irbenson

This stuff is insanely confusing
Someone should make these and sell them for a little profit...I'd buy it


----------



## Jaggedfury

It's pretty basic.

You need the following

-Paintball co2 tank any size from 9oz to 24oz. 
-ASA On/Off Valve that goes ontop of the Paintball co2 Tank.
-A Needle Valve to fit the thread size of the ASA On/Off Valve (Side thread screw in)
-Teflon tape everything
-Co2 Tubing

Just simple as that. What made it confusing is where some people experienced the co2 leakage with the "Watts Needle Valve" that I recommended from Page 1. Although, I'm using the same "Watts Needle Valve" on 3 different Paintball co2 tank which works fine. It got a little bit more confusing, when people went a different route and got a Detrol Needle Valve and that seem to have problem as well, then a few members went with a Swagelok Needle Valve which seem to be working pretty well. So it's the matter of "Needle Valves" to chose from. Could easily be installation error or a defective needle valve. That's basically the breakdown of it. Pretty simple setup.


----------



## Trag672

i am haveing a hard time finding a needle valve that will fit... 

Will this work?

Needle Valve For CO2 Regulator 

will it fit on a 20oz bottle? 

I wasted a few dollors on stuff that doesnt fit or work


----------



## Jaggedfury

*The two threaded size opening on ALL the ASA On/Off Valve are 1/8" Male NPT. *That being said, Any Needle Valve that comes up that doesn't have *1/8'' NPT Thread*, it won't screw in. 

That Needle Valve you listed above in your link states it's..
"Inlet - *Male Threaded NPT 1/8"* (measures 1/4" OD physically) / *Outlet - Hose Barb 1/8" (or 4/6 mm ID/OD tubing)*. This is the valve supplied with our Econo CO2 regulators."

*I would say base on the description that it will work screw in fine, as far as fine adjustment, I do not know anything about how it works other than it will screw onto the ASA On/Off Valve.* Now, on the *Outlet - Hose Barb 1/8" (or 4/6 mm ID/OD tubing), you might need to find a co2 hose to fit that.* I believed the one I'm using is a 8mm size. *4mm/6mm would be a bit big.*

Hope that clears up some confusion.* All Needle Valve needs to be 1/8'' NPT to screw into the ASA On/Off Valve, Keep that in mind.*

This is also regarding gauges. Any brand type gauge will work, doesn't matter if it reads 400psi max or all the way to 3000psi. It must have a 1/8'' NPT to screw into the ASA On/Off Valve if you want to use a gauge.


----------



## austinramirez

this thread is awesome! i've been trying to find an asa on/off valve, but the stores around me don't sell them used.does anyone have an extra they want to sell cheap or give away?


----------



## coldmantis

I would also like to know a place that sells asa adapters with 2 1/8 so I can put on it, the two I'm using now don't have 2 holes, I'm in canada and it's hard to get anything here, online from U.S. well expensive shipping.


----------



## antbug

Thanks again for this wonderful thread!

Here is a picture of my 1st rig. I working on a 2nd right now. It will be the same, but I'm getting a red ASA and the will be the Swag is one step down to the ovm2.


----------



## Jaggedfury

coldmantis said:


> I would also like to know a place that sells asa adapters with 2 1/8 so I can put on it, the two I'm using now don't have 2 holes, I'm in canada and it's hard to get anything here, online from U.S. well expensive shipping.


Check ebay for it. Keywords such as Co2 on/off valve, Asa on/off valves, paintball on/off valve should come up with some. Read the description, it will either tell you it has 2 1/8'' holes or not. There sill always be 1 1/8'', the 2nd one is usually for a Gauge or either blocked off with a hex thread screw.



antbug said:


> Thanks again for this wonderful thread!
> 
> Here is a picture of my 1st rig. I working on a 2nd right now. It will be the same, but I'm getting a red ASA and the will be the Swag is one step down to the ovm2.


Very cool. Looks great. If ever my Watts Needle Valve fail on me, I will keep in mind the Swagelok one for future replacements.


----------



## RuggerMSC

i hooked up the ovm2 valve and i have the red 32 degree asa valve. I was having a ton of trouble getting a good seal when connecting the valve to the asa when using teflon tape, the instance I removed the tape and just wrenched the pieces together there were no leaks. oh and the ovm2 valve adjust so easily


----------



## coldmantis

I was thinking about getting the swag needle valve. how is it, does the bubble rate ever fluctuate?


----------



## RuggerMSC

I have only had it setup for 1 day, but it seems consistant and easy to adjust


----------



## coldmantis

are you using something to count the rate or just your eye, I use the stop watch feature on my cell phone and I find that the watts will deviate from what you set about 8ms in the course of a day or so. When I need it to be 1 bubble per 3 seconds I set it to like 1 bubble per 2.2 seconds.


----------



## RuggerMSC

I use a ladder diffuser, so i just count 1 one thousand and so on and when i see a bubble I start my count over. It has stayed consistant, and I bet with the swag valve you can get down to 1 bubble per 5 or six seconds if you want, it can really fine tune. If you are still looking for an asa valve you can search amazon, i got mine for 10 dollars. maybe later I will post my setup.


----------



## happi

i still get the co2 leak from that hole (posted in the previous post somewhere), i don't know whats causing it. could anyone post a picture or something which could explain the problem. someone said something about the o-ring being a problem, where is that ring located at or suppose to be at.

soon as i try to close the on/off all the way the co2 leaks crazy. any solution


----------



## chumlee

I just had this problem a second ago LITERALLY, lol weird...anyway, just replace the o-ring on the tank Its right at the top of the tank on the part where u screw on the ASA. I dont know if you tried this already but I did that and the problem is fixed. 

Just want to update also, installed the A-40 valve instead of the A-41, lowes had multiple different packagings for each valve so I guess there were different shipments, maybe why some peoples were leaking and some were not. I will let you know how it goes. I also found a gauge on my old gun  Been using c02 for over a week(maybe 2 , i cant remember) and still at 900psi pressure!!!!


----------



## Jaggedfury

happi said:


> i still get the co2 leak from that hole (posted in the previous post somewhere), i don't know whats causing it. could anyone post a picture or something which could explain the problem. someone said something about the o-ring being a problem, where is that ring located at or suppose to be at.
> 
> soon as i try to close the on/off all the way the co2 leaks crazy. any solution


The holes is used to attach to the bottom of paintball gun handle arms. It's just deep circle groves that doesn't pierce all the way through. Some are threaded, some are not. Some are just release "Pin Slots Holes" to secure it onto the paintball gun handle arm. Notice in the picture below.

























The rubber seal at the top is the O ring.












chumlee said:


> I just had this problem a second ago LITERALLY, lol weird...anyway, just replace the o-ring on the tank Its right at the top of the tank on the part where u screw on the ASA. I dont know if you tried this already but I did that and the problem is fixed.
> 
> Just want to update also, installed the A-40 valve instead of the A-41, lowes had multiple different packagings for each valve so I guess there were different shipments, maybe why some peoples were leaking and some were not. I will let you know how it goes. I also found a gauge on my old gun  Been using c02 for over a week(maybe 2 , i cant remember) and still at 900psi pressure!!!!


Cool, Max I ever seen is 850 psi.


----------



## coldmantis

I just ordered the swag needle valve, hopefully I can set it and forget it until the tank is empty instead of checking the bubble rate every other day and adjusting.


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## chumlee

Hey jag, in my 20g long i have hc and some blyxa and some random swords. If I was to run at 1bps, and leave it on overnight would i have to run some sort of airstone or something or do you think that wont be a problem . I would like to leave it on as long as possible with out touching it. This isnt really the right place to ask i could probably ask in plants or something but w/e.


----------



## bored4

where are people buying the Swagelok B-OVM2-KBK valve from? i searched ebay and i cant find any..


----------



## Jaggedfury

chumlee said:


> Hey jag, in my 20g long i have hc and some blyxa and some random swords. If I was to run at 1bps, and leave it on overnight would i have to run some sort of airstone or something or do you think that wont be a problem . I would like to leave it on as long as possible with out touching it. This isnt really the right place to ask i could probably ask in plants or something but w/e.


What are you running it to now? A Ceramic Glass Diffuser? A reactor? Through a line canister filter? Through a hang on filter? Powerhead?

Leaving it on at night shouldn't be a problem. In my 20gallon long tank, I use Hagen GLO Dual 2x24Watts T5HO Life-Glo bulbs. That's 48watts total about 2-3 inches from the water line and I have mines at 1bps on 24/7. I have a Large air driven sponge filter along with an extra airstone connected to a quardiple port air pump. Making sure there's plently of oxygen for my shrimps. I do not keep fish in there, just shrimps and plants. Keep an eye out for algae growth and your fish. You can visually see your fish's behavior if they're going to the water's surface for air.. it's too much co2. Different fish reacts different ways to co2, some are sensitive some or not. Just peer in once in awhile to check it out.

I'm not sure how you're co2 is being disperse into the tank. Mines goes to a Ceramic Glass Diffuser, it's pretty fine mist bubbles. No complaints. I"m not sure how effect a air stone connected to the end of a co2 tubing is. I would suggest making some sort of reactor or plug the co2 tubing into a powerhead and have it disperse that way instead. There's a few other options to go upon dispersing your co2. But leaving it on all the time is fine, just make sure your dispersing the co2 gas somehow rather than have single bubbles shoot straight to the top of your water's surface.


----------



## chumlee

Hagen ladder.....using the exact same lighting (same type bulbs, different fixture) shrimps only and plants. Very similar tank. Going to buy a reactor tomorrow though. Should I use an airstone or something. I have a sponge filter but I didnt like the surface agitation it made, so I took the sponge and put it over my AC70 intake.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Do a search for reactor on here, some people made their own that works with co2. Or you can go buy one yourself. Or you can buy a powerhead also that has a input air tube size nipple, that's where I would hook up the co2 tubing to so that way it disperse it all over. 

I guess the Hagen Ladder works too, I just don't think it disperse it much as once the co2 rise up the path, it just bubbles straight up in one bubble form to the top. My opinion is this doesn't seem to be effective to me. It's basically just like dumping your co2 tubing with nothing attached to it into the water with something heavy anchoring the tubing down. That's just my opinion. I'd either have it go through a Ceramic Glass Diffuser, Reactor, or a Powerhead instead.


----------



## chumlee

have any opinions on the Red Sea 200 reactor?


----------



## Jaggedfury

No clue on that, haven't use it. The reactors I've seen rigged up disperse co2 at 100%. Or so they say. That ladder way sort of works, I just don't think it's dispersing co2 100%. More like less than 50% or less.

This guy sells great Ceramic Glass Diffuser. I do not know him personally or on here. I just recommend people who asked me where do I get these Ceramic Glass Diffusers. I would link ebay, but they dont want to wait for overseas shipping and such. So best bet is to go through this guy's website. Fast delivery too, I ordered back in the days.
http://www.greenleafaquariums.com/co2-diffusers.html


----------



## Noahma

I am disfusing into a Hagen Elite Mini internal filter, it works GREAT, just put the co2 hose into the spot meant for an air hose.


----------



## waterxnge

bored4 said:


> where are people buying the Swagelok B-OVM2-KBK valve from? i searched ebay and i cant find any..


Do a search for: Swagelok B-OVM2-BKB


----------



## MeanGreenEyes

Here's pics using the Swagelok B-OVM2-BKB valve that I found and bought...and pics of the fittings that I used to make it work...

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/pHosting/f/3416_12-6-10_374c.jpg

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/pHosting/f/3417_12-6-10_376c.jpg

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/pHosting/f/3418_12-6-10_384c.jpg

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/pHosting/f/3414_12-6-10_371c.jpg

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/pHosting/f/3419_12-6-10_383c.jpg

Everything is hooked up and running perfectly...


----------



## Jaggedfury

Nice! What other parts do you need beside the Swagelok needle valve. Don't want to let people assume that's the only part that you need to get if going that Swagelok route.


----------



## MeanGreenEyes

The pictures include everything needed...including the packaging and part numbers from home depot and the names of the parts...tried to take detailed pics of the whole setup too...


----------



## NickS

I got my Swagelok B-OVM2-BKB and got it set up today as well. Seems to be working nicely though getting the BPS set is just as hard as the Watts was for me. I'll have to see if the bubble rate holds through the day tomorrow.

I used a slightly different set of parts than MeanGreenEyes, but either way works.

http://www.watts.com/pages/_products_details.asp?pid=6456 (Watts A-700)

and a 

http://www.watts.com/pages/_products_details.asp?pid=6414 (Watts A-22)


----------



## Jaggedfury

MeanGreenEyes said:


> The pictures include everything needed...including the packaging and part numbers from home depot and the names of the parts...tried to take detailed pics of the whole setup too...


I'd overlooked the first picture. My bad. 



NickS said:


> I got my Swagelok B-OVM2-BKB and got it set up today as well. Seems to be working nicely though getting the BPS set is just as hard as the Watts was for me. I'll have to see if the bubble rate holds through the day tomorrow.
> 
> I used a slightly different set of parts than MeanGreenEyes, but either way works.
> 
> http://www.watts.com/pages/_products_details.asp?pid=6456 (Watts A-700)
> 
> and a
> 
> http://www.watts.com/pages/_products_details.asp?pid=6414 (Watts A-22)


I guess the Watts A-700 and Watts A-22 are about a few dollars each? I just have to asked, since people message me personally with questions about the Swagelok needle valve. I just dont want to direct them to only getting the Swagelok needle valve then find out later they need other connector pieces as well.


----------



## g33tar

My setup is still going strong. PSI gauge is still at 850. I cant even remember how long ago I set this up. 

Jaggedfury for prez.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Haha, which needle valve are you using? None the less, glad it works. I'll give an update on the 11th of my montly update to see what psi it's at. I'm noticed a little big more decrease in psi, not sure if it has to do with the room temperature being around 68.8 degrees. I know co2 is in liquid form until it's release then it's turns into gas..


----------



## NickS

It's about $5 for the extra parts that I bought.


----------



## waterxnge

If available, would you recommend this single Swagelock to airline tube coupling to replace the two Watts items below?
http://www.watts.com/pages/_products_details.asp?pid=6412

Also, does the CO2 airline tube need to be connected with a compression fitting or should something like this be fine?
http://www.watts.com/pages/_products_details.asp?pid=6497

Thanks!



NickS said:


> I got my Swagelok B-OVM2-BKB and got it set up today as well. Seems to be working nicely though getting the BPS set is just as hard as the Watts was for me. I'll have to see if the bubble rate holds through the day tomorrow.
> 
> I used a slightly different set of parts than MeanGreenEyes, but either way works.
> 
> http://www.watts.com/pages/_products_details.asp?pid=6456 (Watts A-700)
> 
> and a
> 
> http://www.watts.com/pages/_products_details.asp?pid=6414 (Watts A-22)


----------



## NickS

jke000 said:


> If available, would you recommend this single Swagelock to airline tube coupling to replace the two Watts items below?
> http://www.watts.com/pages/_products_details.asp?pid=6412
> 
> Also, does the CO2 airline tube need to be connected with a compression fitting or should something like this be fine?
> http://www.watts.com/pages/_products_details.asp?pid=6497
> 
> Thanks!


The reason I have the two pieces is because I wanted my hose to be connected in a manner that made it point directly up. This is just makes it easier for me in my stand since the hose isn't then pointing out toward the side. I think this also reduces the chances of kinking that airline. You could use the first item you posted. It'll work. It's just a matter of preference. As long as the pieces connect, you could have 10 different adapters and elbows going every which way and it would work.

As for the second item, I don't know for a fact that a barbed fitting wouldn't work, but I don't personally like the idea. Seems like another matter of preference to me.


----------



## antbug

jke000 said:


> Also, does the CO2 airline tube need to be connected with a compression fitting or should something like this be fine?
> http://www.watts.com/pages/_products_details.asp?pid=6497
> 
> Thanks!


That will work. Just think about your bubble counter and check valve. They both stay on no problem.


----------



## pweifan

Jaggedfury said:


> It's pretty basic.
> 
> You need the following
> 
> -Paintball co2 tank any size from 9oz to 24oz.
> -ASA On/Off Valve that goes ontop of the Paintball co2 Tank.
> -A Needle Valve to fit the thread size of the ASA On/Off Valve (Side thread screw in)
> -Teflon tape everything
> -Co2 Tubing
> 
> Just simple as that. What made it confusing is where some people experienced the co2 leakage with the "Watts Needle Valve" that I recommended from Page 1. Although, I'm using the same "Watts Needle Valve" on 3 different Paintball co2 tank which works fine. It got a little bit more confusing, when people went a different route and got a Detrol Needle Valve and that seem to have problem as well, then a few members went with a Swagelok Needle Valve which seem to be working pretty well. So it's the matter of "Needle Valves" to chose from. Could easily be installation error or a defective needle valve. That's basically the breakdown of it. Pretty simple setup.


This is exactly the summary I was looking for. Thank you for taking the time and helping out your fellow aquariusts with this thread, Jaggedfury!


----------



## Jaggedfury

No problem, I myself is using the Watts Needle Valve listed above. Although, some people here are using the Swagelok B-OVM2-BKB with some Watts parts to make it work. You might want to look into that.


----------



## NickS

antbug said:


> That will work. Just think about your bubble counter and check valve. They both stay on no problem.


I wish mine stayed on "no problem." Twitch that knob just a little bit too much and WOOSH/POP. They come right off. 'Course I'm using the cheapest Meijer check valve there is...no barbs.


----------



## jeremyblevins

okay so today i decided i would try adding the tape to the actual needle part, the only part i didn't put tape on. and as i was unscrewing the adjustment arm i realized that the thread on my needle was completely trashed the arm wouldn't even come out. so i went and got another watts today and put tape everywhere and set it up. hopefully this will fix the problems i've been having.


----------



## swissian

Just got everything working minus the actual CO2 tank. It is leaking from the top bolt and went from full to empty is just a week. The guy who filled it did not tighten the top enough. Tomorrow I will get it refilled and will have it up and running!


----------



## timobxsci

Can someone give me links to all the things I will need to buy? Thanks !


----------



## NickS

Here's the link: Google

:flick: :hihi:


----------



## antbug

NickS said:


> I wish mine stayed on "no problem." Twitch that knob just a little bit too much and WOOSH/POP. They come right off. 'Course I'm using the cheapest Meijer check valve there is...no barbs.


 
WOOSH/POP! hahaha that happened to me on my bubble counter, but it was my fault. I forgot to close the NV before turning on the ASA. If you slowly open the NV, the barb "should" work fine.


----------



## DvsDev

It's probably better if you have the hose pop off just in case your outlet volume suddenly increases e.g. the tank falls over, this way the gas doesn't purge into the tank.
I made one of these setups myself and I'd have to say that i'm really happy with the results, currently I'm waiting for a delivery on a 12v solenoid that I will mount on a T fitting that's normally open.

This way when the power is on it flows through to the tank and when the light turns off it diverts to inside my cabinet, a extra safety feature since if the power should cut for some reason the gas will just slowly purge.
This saves on fitting a noisy air pump that turns on after the light turns off, the price for the valve is $50NZD (roughly $40USD).
I am aware this is wasteful of the gas but it's so cheap to refill I'd rather do this than fit a high pressure valve on the bottle that costs alot more initially.

Also, to help a few of you guys I will point out that I used the gas rated thread tape and I had no leaks on my first setup, it's not white but yellow and is thicker, you can purchase it from most engineering suppliers that carry fittings.


----------



## RuggerMSC

The parts I use are as follows

*on/off*
http://www.amazon.com/32-Degrees-Qu...331Q/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1291869761&sr=8-3

*needle valve*

****** Swagelok 1/8" Brass Needle Valve B-OVM2-BKB 

*gauge*

can't remember but doesn't really matter

*airline connecter*

1/8" mpt x 3/16" barbed hose fitting

*misc parts*

brass 1/8" fpt x 1/8" fpt coupler.......this was used to connect the needle valse to the barbed fitting.

I have yet to have an issue with any leaks or floating. with the equipment I have used no teflon tape was the key. I believe a few pieces have it because i had already put it on, but you don't need the teflon tape if you tighten everything properly, and I actually found that on that asa valve if you have teflon tape from the needle valve to the asa it causes a poor seal. I can post pictures in a few days, my 35mm sat in the cold and is all fogged up right now.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Awesome. Very detailed and simply put.


----------



## mmelnick

Jaggedfury said:


> Post picture up of that 40 oz you have, I'd like to see it.













Or better yet, here's a link.

http://www.airsplat.com/Items/PA-PE-48CU-3000.htm

I thought it was a 40 oz, but when I dug it out of storage it's just labeled 48cu 3000PSI. 

I have no idea what size that is in oz. Or anything about it really. It does have a built in pressure gauge though so I should be able to get a cheap on off valve with only one outlet hole for the needle valve.

Here is what the manufacturer says about it.


> - Consistent Flow Technology piston
> - Mil-spec Belleville Springs
> - Dual Safety Rupture Plugs for Extra Safety
> - Mechanical Gauge
> - Nickel Plated Brass Bonnet
> - Certified Fill Nipple and Dual Locking Set Screws
> - Preset at 450 psi
> - Approximately 600 Shots per Fill
> - 5 year Hydro Test Date
> 
> PMI 48 cubic inch 3000 Psi Aluminum HPA Tank. This is a 5 year tank with a low pressure output


So does that mean that I can have it filled to 3000 PSI, but it will only let out 450 PSI to the on/off valve and needle valve if I go with this tank?


----------



## mmelnick

I just found out that this is an air tank meant for compressed air, not CO2, that's why I'm having trouble finding info on it. But they said they could fill it with CO2 if the fittings are the same, which it should be since it fits onto any paintball gun.

What do you all think?


----------



## Jaggedfury

I'm not sure if that safe, I dont know what the person who could fill them tells you.

There are 3 types of paintball tank. Each uses it's own co2, oxygen, or nitrogen. Each tank is specially made to withhold it's own gas/liquid form. If you feel it's safe and it works then go for it.

co2 tank itself ranging from 9,12,20,24 oz tank will be better they run from $12 to $26 dollars at most.

Not sure how your tank that you have with its regulator going to regulate 3000psi down to 800-850psi(co2 gas) to 450psi as you mentioned above.


----------



## mmelnick

Jaggedfury said:


> I'm not sure if that safe, I dont know what the person who could fill them tells you.
> 
> There are 3 types of paintball tank. Each uses it's own co2, oxygen, or nitrogen. Each tank is specially made to withhold it's own gas/liquid form. If you feel it's safe and it works then go for it.
> 
> co2 tank itself ranging from 9,12,20,24 oz tank will be better they run from $12 to $26 dollars at most.
> 
> Not sure how your tank that you have with its regulator going to regulate 3000psi down to 800-850psi(co2 gas) to 450psi as you mentioned above.


And it looks like the gauge is to read actual tank pressure. I should probably get one to put above the "regulator" to always monitor the top end pressure that it is allowing through.

I think I'll try it, and if the pressure at the needle valve looks to be around 450 then great, if not, then I'll just sell it and get a regular tank I guess. Maybe one of the big ones meant for brewing.


----------



## [email protected]

There is now a commercial solution.

Fluval is selling this kit.
http://www.petsolutions.com/storefront/product-view.ep?pID=FluvalPressurinedCO2

Add this tank adapter and you can use a paintball tank. 
http://www.rap4.com/paintball/os/88g-bb-gun-air-tank-adapter


----------



## g33tar

[email protected] said:


> There is now a commercial solution.
> 
> Fluval is selling this kit.
> http://www.petsolutions.com/storefront/product-view.ep?pID=FluvalPressurinedCO2
> 
> Add this tank adapter and you can use a paintball tank.
> http://www.rap4.com/paintball/os/88g-bb-gun-air-tank-adapter


Shame that it costs almost twice as much as setting this up, after factoring in that youll also need to buy a paintball tank after that little thing runs out.


----------



## coldmantis

but how is the needle valve on that fluval, I got the 20g fluval and returned it after a week because the needle valve is worst then the watts. if I set it to 1 per 3 seconds the next bubble will be 1 per 5 sec and the next will be 1 per 1sec and so on....


----------



## Jaggedfury

*Co2 Paintball tank update: *

September 11, 2010 Pressure read at 850 psi (removed a few times for taking photos)
November 11, 2010 Pressure read at above 800 psi
October 11, 2010 Pressure read at hairline above 700 psi.
December 11, 2010 Pressure read at hairline above 500 psi. Photo below.









Taking early photo of the gauge a few hours beforehand(Out of town 12/11/10). Not quiet sure what causes the increase in drop of co2 pressure. Room temperature is about 68.4 degrees. Haven't turn on the house heater this year yet, not even once. House is a bit cold at times lol. Saving money  That might of account for the drop of pressure but still not certain of this. Since co2 liquid leaves the bottle as gas form. 

I'm very sure that this will last another 1 or 2 months from this date even though it took a 200psi pressure drop from last month's reading. I am saying this because the pressure is still above Half.


----------



## waterxnge

Quick paintball 101 question for a noob. How does on remove the on-off value on a full cylinder? Do I screw off the top valve portion first before unscrewing the whole on-off valve?


----------



## chumlee

jke000 said:


> Quick paintball 101 question for a noob. How does on remove the on-off value on a full cylinder? Do I screw off the top valve portion first before unscrewing the whole on-off valve?


Unscrew the top part , and then you can unscrew the whole on/off valve. You'll hear a little release of c02, that's normal.


----------



## Jaggedfury

I'm going to be tearing down my co2 tank, All my plants are already gone exception of some hydrophillia. No need for the co2 tank. The last picture I've taken resulted in having a hair line over 500psi still after it was started 3 months ago. I can say I am positive that this diy experiment will get you well over the 4-5 months that I thought it will. 500psi sill get you pass 4-5 months before refill, temperature might slightly play an effect to this. Maybe someone can take over on this and note down how many months before refills. I'm only taking my setups apart because I sold 2 of my tanks, and 2 of its paintball setup already. This one is going to be for sale also, no need to inject co2 into the tank that's pretty much just substrate left and water. Being to pack stuff for for movement, and weekends are my only time to do so.

I can take another shot of the pressure tomorrow on the 11th to be accurate, I don't think it will change much though, before I head out of town.


----------



## zz_its_me

Ok I've got mine running. Here's the saga. I tried the Detrol valve and as others reported, it won't close. Then I tried the Watts valve, and I had the stopping trouble. It would stop after only a couple hours. I gave up on it after a week, and got the ****** Swagelok 1/8" Brass Needle Valve B-OVM2-BKB. I put it all back together today, and it's been running at 1 bubble every 1.5 seconds steady all day. 

Here's a couple of pics of the setup:




















I got all my stuff at iisports.com

Bob Long on/off $7.99

http://iisports.com/product.asp?s=iispaintball&pf_id=XP5011A-BLU&dept_id=3304

Guage $3.99

http://iisports.com/product.asp?s=iispaintball&pf_id=XP9955A%2DMICROGA&dept_id=22919

20oz CO2 tank $22.50

http://iisports.com/product.asp?s=iispaintball&pf_id=XP4130A%2DE20&dept_id=3301

and of course the valve from e-bay.

I want to thank everyone here for this and all the info shared. 

This is feeding my 46 gallon tall tank using an Elite mini filter as the defuser, I had the mini and was using it for my DIY yeast CO2. This set up has got to work better. I can't wait to get some growth on the plants.

Thanks again.......Robert


----------



## Jaggedfury

Nice. Very nice! Even got the same gauge as me. Haha. Definitely get a gauge, it's cheap.. worth it in my mind to spend less than $5 for it. Although some goes for $9. Keep track of your start and end for the paintball tank so we can see how long it last. Mines well in the 3rd month and shows 500 psi. That's with a Watts A-41 needle valve at 1bps.


----------



## coldmantis

it's good to hear that noone is have any problems with the swag valve, wish I bought it sooner most likely will order another when it gets here so I can test and hopefully have the same results as everyone else.


----------



## chumlee

I think I said it earlier, I got the Watts A-40 valve instead of the A-41 valve and It works PERFECTLY . Its the straight one rather than the angled one, if that helps. My system is running strong at a little less than 900 psi after 2,3,4 weeks...I cant keep track. If I check when my post here was when I finished it , it was that long ago haha.


----------



## NickS

Well, I can say I'm happier with my new needle valve (****** Swagelok 1/8" Brass Needle Valve B-OVM2-BKB). It's still a struggle to get it set just right, but for the past 3 days or so it has been holding steady at the same bps and that's all I really wanted.

It fluctuates a little bit but I think that's due to changing temperatures in the room. Not enough fluctuation to really matter.


----------



## Register

Ok paintball guys you will understand what I am thinking here.

Why not take a Autococker LPR and screw that directly into the on/off. Adjust it down. Pressure should be less than 80psi now. Then you could put a Fabco NV 55 needle valve ($20 and super accurate) in the outlet port. This would be a much better option for only a little more.


----------



## zz_its_me

Register said:


> Ok paintball guys you will understand what I am thinking here.
> 
> Why not take a Autococker LPR and screw that directly into the on/off. Adjust it down. Pressure should be less than 80psi now. Then you could put a Fabco NV 55 needle valve ($20 and super accurate) in the outlet port. This would be a much better option for only a little more.



Register,

for us non paintball guys what is an Autococker LPR. Best I could google is it's a Low Pressure Regulator which sounds interesting. What does one look like and what type of fitting does it have? How does it work? I guess since i could screw into the on/off one end must be 1/8". The pictures I found weren't too discriptive.

Do tell us more!!!

ZZ


----------



## sailnut

coldmantis said:


> but how is the needle valve on that fluval, I got the 20g fluval and returned it after a week because the needle valve is worst then the watts. if I set it to 1 per 3 seconds the next bubble will be 1 per 5 sec and the next will be 1 per 1sec and so on....


Once set it holds all day. I have mine set at 1 bubble/sec and it does not vary.

Mechanically its very smooth I turn it on in the morning and after 15 minutes at a relatively high rate I dial it down.

The diffuser is also a very nice part. GLA is selling it for $20. Considering that one gets the regulator, the diffuser a bubble counter and 88G cylinder for $45 its a bargain.

Any reports regarding an economical selonoid and the 20oz adapter.


----------



## Register

zz_its_me said:


> Register,
> 
> for us non paintball guys what is an Autococker LPR. Best I could google is it's a Low Pressure Regulator which sounds interesting. What does one look like and what type of fitting does it have? How does it work? I guess since i could screw into the on/off one end must be 1/8". The pictures I found weren't too discriptive.
> 
> Do tell us more!!!
> 
> ZZ


You are correct. It is a Low Pressure Regulator that lowers the pressure for the front pneumatics on the Autococker. My thoughts are they can be picked up for cheap and would help with the irregular pressure CO2 has based on air temp. Also would help with the safety aspect.

On one end they are 1/8" NPT fitting the would screw directly to the on/off. The output is a 10/32 fitting. The Fabco FV 55 has a 10/32 input and output. So one would just need a 10/32 extension piece ($2). The Fabco has 42 threads per inch so it has a good deal of adjust-ability.

I am going to ask friends if they have any laying around to try out. I ordered a Fabco so it should be here soon. Will post pics and results!


----------



## zz_its_me

Register,

Thanks for the info. Do keep us posted as I am interested in your idea. Post pics one way or the other, I'd like to see this.

I do have mine up and running with the Swagelok valve. It did slow down from 1 bubble ever 1.5 sec to 1 ever 10 seconds after the first day. I readjusted and it's been going steady now for 2 days and I'm starting to see plant growth.

Thanks all.

ZZ


----------



## coldmantis

wow 1b/1.5s to 1b/10s is a huge float, even the watts didn't do that bad.. I set my to 1 per 2s and after a week it will slow to 1per 4s


----------



## antbug

I set up my 2nd rig yesterday (I'll post pics soon). Both have the Swag NV and both hold steady. My 1st one is set at 3bps and my 2nd is set at 1bps. 

Jaggedfury ~ Thank you again for this wonderful thread that help myself and so many others!


----------



## Jaggedfury

My intentions of rigging one of these setup up was to take away the hassle of the DIY Co2 from the yeast fermentation method. I just couldn't see myself messing with that on a daily basis or a few days. I wanted something cheap to rig up and to be twice or more effective than the diy yeast with no actual labor and headache. Very cool that you've had begun setting up a 2nd rig. Glad it helped out.


----------



## zz_its_me

coldmantis said:


> wow 1b/1.5s to 1b/10s is a huge float, even the watts didn't do that bad.. I set my to 1 per 2s and after a week it will slow to 1per 4s


Coldmantis,

Yes that's what I thought also, and I was affraid "here we go again" with my trouble with the different valves. I am happy to report that the Swagelok valve is running very steady at 1b per 1.5 sec for the last 3 days. I just think that maybe it just took some adjusting. I can't remember if I fully opened and closed the valve a few times before I hooked it up. I know I ment to to loosen it up, but I think I may have forgotten to do that so that may be the reason for my float.

Also I want to add a big thanks to JaggedFury and everyone for the help with this. It is much easier than yeast. I know for myself I would get lazy and not change the DIY when I should have  and my tank suffered because of it. 

ZZ


----------



## coldmantis

zz_its_me said:


> Coldmantis,
> 
> Yes that's what I thought also, and I was affraid "here we go again" with my trouble with the different valves. I am happy to report that the Swagelok valve is running very steady at 1b per 1.5 sec for the last 3 days. I just think that maybe it just took some adjusting. I can't remember if I fully opened and closed the valve a few times before I hooked it up. I know I ment to to loosen it up, but I think I may have forgotten to do that so that may be the reason for my float.
> 
> Also I want to add a big thanks to JaggedFury and everyone for the help with this. It is much easier than yeast. I know for myself I would get lazy and not change the DIY when I should have  and my tank suffered because of it.
> 
> ZZ


thanks for the reassurance, my swag valve that I ordered is not here yet, though I bought it for nothing, however a member here suggested to use the A40 valve instead of the A41 I tried it and it works okay but it is very inconsistent but so far it doesn't float as much but setting it at 1 per 3.7 seconds next will be 4s next will be 3.5s, then 4.2s and then back to 3.7.... If the swag doesn't live up to the hype I think I'm just going to spend the money and the space and get a full 5-10lb setup instead.


----------



## zz_its_me

ColdMantis,

I think you'll be happy with the Swagelok. I set mine up and as I said the next morning it was doing 1b per 10 sec from 1b per 1.5 sec. I think I had to adjust it twice over the next day after that, but it's been fine ever since. I would run it through it range from open to closed a couple times before attaching it to the ASA on/off on the paintball tank. I don't think that I did that, and the threads on the needle may have been tight. It's still touchy to adjust, not as bad as the watts though. Just make very very small adjustments, wait 30 minutes and see if it needs more of less.

Let us know how you make out with it.

ZZ


----------



## genEus

Thanks for such a great thread! I can't believe I read almost all 48 pages of it!  I ordered most of my supplies now with the exception of things I need to buy from Home Depot.

I just had one question - I see a lot of mention of teflon tape. Has anyone tried using Pipe Dope instead? I was thinking of doing that instead of Teflon tape but wanted to see if anyone else has tried it before
... Thanks!


----------



## Jaggedfury

genEus said:


> Thanks for such a great thread! I can't believe I read almost all 48 pages of it! I ordered most of my supplies now with the exception of things I need to buy from Home Depot.
> 
> I just had one question - I see a lot of mention of teflon tape. Has anyone tried using Pipe Dope instead? I was thinking of doing that instead of Teflon tape but wanted to see if anyone else has tried it before
> ... Thanks!


It's fairly easy to make, not difficult at all. Pipe Dope can get a messy. Try it, Teflon alone will be enough. This wasn't a mastered made rig, alot of people are having problem with different needle valves along with the homedepot valve also. Some works, some doesn't. People switched over to the Swagelok Needle Valve and a few couplers from homedepot. You might want to go back a 2-6 pages and find the part number listed and go that route. Its' just a couple bucks more for it.


----------



## genEus

Jaggedfury said:


> It's fairly easy to make, not difficult at all. Pipe Dope can get a messy. Try it, Teflon alone will be enough. This wasn't a mastered made rig, alot of people are having problem with different needle valves along with the homedepot valve also. Some works, some doesn't. People switched over to the Swagelok Needle Valve and a few couplers from homedepot. You might want to go back a 2-6 pages and find the part number listed and go that route. Its' just a couple bucks more for it.


Oh yeah I went with the Swagelok. So far I have acquired everything but the stuff I needed at HD, which I will get later. I don't even have my 55 gal that this will go into yet! heh

****** Swagelok 1/8" Brass Needle Valve B-OVM2-BKB $8.99 + S&H (eBay)
(2) Pure Energy 20oz CO2 Tank $15.15 x 2 (Amazon)
Bob Long Rail Mount On/Off Adapter BLUE $7.99 + S&H (iisports.com)
Paintball Micro Gauge 0-1200 psi $3.99 + S&H (iisports.com)


----------



## timobxsci

Is there a way to add a SOLENOID onto this ?!?!

I LOVE MY DIY PAINTBALL CO2 but I don't need the CO2 on all day :O


----------



## coldmantis

yes but that will cost a lot more, to have a solenoid you need a regulator most solenoid are only going to hold back around 150psi if not less of pressure, that is why you need a regulator to adjust it down then you can put the solenoid and needle valve, but for the cost of a regulator and solenoid you might as well just go full 5lb co2 instead.


timobxsci said:


> Is there a way to add a SOLENOID onto this ]?!?!
> 
> I LOVE MY DIY PAINTBALL CO2 but I don't need the CO2 on all day :O


----------



## antbug

coldmantis said:


> yes but that will cost a lot more, to have a solenoid you need a regulator most solenoid are only going to hold back around 150psi if not less of pressure, that is why you need a regulator to adjust it down then you can put the solenoid and needle valve, but for the cost of a regulator and solenoid you might as well just go full 5lb co2 instead.


Why can't you put the solenoid after the NV? I would guess the psi is less the 30 after that point.


----------



## genEus

timobxsci said:


> Is there a way to add a SOLENOID onto this ?!?!
> 
> I LOVE MY DIY PAINTBALL CO2 but I don't need the CO2 on all day :O


I plan to be using the Hagen Elite filter/diffuser method, and will just turn it off together with the lights, just to be on the safe side. That will cause large bubbles of CO2 to simply float up to the surface without being absorbed by the water. I guess you're still "wasting" CO2 but it should still end up way cheaper than any professional CO2 setup.


----------



## keithy

coldmantis said:


> yes but that will cost a lot more, to have a solenoid you need a regulator most solenoid are only going to hold back around 150psi if not less of pressure, that is why you need a regulator to adjust it down then you can put the solenoid and needle valve, but for the cost of a regulator and solenoid you might as well just go full 5lb co2 instead.





antbug said:


> Why can't you put the solenoid after the NV? I would guess the psi is less the 30 after that point.


Antbug, are you sure it is less than 30 psi? when the solenoid is closed, there is theoretically no flow and you have a closed vessel. This is assuming you did not shut the NV. Therefore, pressure in a closed vessel should be the same everywhere. correct?


----------



## antbug

Now that I think more about it...... After the solenoid closes the pressure would build up, correct? If this is correct, how does the ADA EI valve work then?


----------



## keithy

I am not sure coz I am not familar with the full blown co2 setup. I am just looking at things based on hydraulic/pneumatics stand point. 

just my 2 cents. There are two possibility that the ADA EL valve work. 
1. It can take high pressure
2. Pressure have to be stepped down before entering the ADA EL valve. 

my guess is that it needs to couple with a regulator as suggested by genEus.


----------



## Eden Marel

Are these the right stuff?

Tank:
http://www.redcellpaintball.com/pure-energy-aluminum-co2-tank-20oz.html

On/Off:
Can't find one on the website? Where to get?

Gauge:
http://www.redcellpaintball.com/dye-mini-gauge-1500-psi.html


----------



## ddtran46

Eden Marel said:


> Are these the right stuff?
> 
> Tank:
> http://www.redcellpaintball.com/pure-energy-aluminum-co2-tank-20oz.html
> 
> On/Off:
> Can't find one on the website? Where to get?
> 
> Gauge:
> http://www.redcellpaintball.com/dye-mini-gauge-1500-psi.html


Amazon has a 20oz paintball tank for 15 shipped. Ebay has tons of on/off asa's.


----------



## Eden Marel

ddtran46 said:


> Amazon has a 20oz paintball tank for 15 shipped. Ebay has tons of on/off asa's.


Ok, got the amazon, but on Ebay I can't tell if those On/off things have one hole or two.


----------



## antbug

Eden ~ These have the 2 holes. I have 2 of them and they work great!

http://www.amazon.com/32-Degrees-Quick-Forward-Adaptor/dp/B001MY331Q


----------



## ddtran46

Eden- You should get the gauge from the same seller that *antbug* linked.


----------



## Eden Marel

Okay so these... please verify because I don't want to get the wrong thing and have to PAY SHIPPING to return them. Thanks!! 


http://www.amazon.com/Pure-Energy-20oz-Tank-graphic/dp/B0008G2WAW/ref=pd_bxgy_sg_text_c

http://www.amazon.com/32-Degrees-Quick-Forward-Adaptor/dp/B001MY331Q

http://www.amazon.com/Paintball-32-Degrees-Deluxe-Gauge/dp/B001J4TZ8Y/ref=pd_sim_sg_1


----------



## ddtran46

Eden Marel said:


> Okay so these... please verify because I don't want to get the wrong thing and have to PAY SHIPPING to return them. Thanks!!
> 
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Pure-Energy-20oz-Tank-graphic/dp/B0008G2WAW/ref=pd_bxgy_sg_text_c
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/32-Degrees-Quick-Forward-Adaptor/dp/B001MY331Q
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Paintball-32-Degrees-Deluxe-Gauge/dp/B001J4TZ8Y/ref=pd_sim_sg_1


Yeah, those look like the right stuffs to get.


----------



## Capsaicin_MFK

My 24oz. tank lasted a little over 2 months. I was using silicone tubing from Petsmart (huge NO NO so I've heard). I switched to Tygon tubing, so let's see how long this tank lasts.

I am using a mini knockoff glass diffuser from overseas, so I have to pump in more co2 than I'd like right now. I really wanna switch to the new diffusers that GLA is offering.

Side note: I physically watched the co2 run out and there was no end of tank dump. :hihi:


----------



## coldmantis

where do you get tygon tubing?


----------



## Capsaicin_MFK

coldmantis said:


> where do you get tygon tubing?


http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=23367&catid=864


----------



## chumlee

I noticed that my gauge never dropped a lot , like only a very very tiny bit for the first few weeks, but now it drops about 100 psi a day, and It's not even leaking. I held it under water and it's not leaking for sure, I check it every day. I detach the c02 hosing at night and shut the needle valve off also. Is this normal?


----------



## Register

Has anyone set one up with a high quality needle valve like the Ideal?


----------



## Jaggedfury

chumlee said:


> I noticed that my gauge never dropped a lot , like only a very very tiny bit for the first few weeks, but now it drops about 100 psi a day, and It's not even leaking. I held it under water and it's not leaking for sure, I check it every day. I detach the c02 hosing at night and shut the needle valve off also. Is this normal?


Shouldn't drop that much within a day. Although I have experienced mine dropping about 200 psi within a exactly 1 month period. Here's my date of keeping track of the psi levels. I do have photos of the level on each 11th of every month since started.

September 11, 2010 Pressure read at 850 psi (removed a few times for taking photos)
November 11, 2010 Pressure read at above 800 psi
October 11, 2010 Pressure read at hairline above 700 psi.
December 11, 2010 Pressure read at hairline above 500 psi.

Mines show no leaks either, but it held above 500 psi three months into setting it up. Could be because of the cold weather? Not sure, but at the time I am still sure it's working fine other than the slight major decrease in the liquid to gas form when outputting.



Register said:


> Has anyone set one up with a high quality needle valve like the Ideal?


Not that I know of, Haven't seen/heard anyone use any "Ideal" brand Needle Valve.


----------



## coldmantis

if you have the money to drop on a 60-80 dollar ideal needle valve I think you would have enough to get a regulator and a real co2 tank, if your looking for something small then getting a 2.5lb co2 tank is not much bigger then a 24oz paintball tank in actual tank size.


----------



## antbug

And here is #2


----------



## chumlee

It might be because of the temp, it's pretty cold in my house. I see that the tank is at 0 about , no end of tank dump but my gauge might just be messed up im going to see how long it takes until it actually runs out of gas.


----------



## coldmantis

did you teflon tape the needle handle part or just the connecting ends?


antbug said:


> And here is #2


----------



## imdanny

Just got the supplies i needed for this project.

I have a two sided ASA on/off and one side is capped off and the other has a needle valve.

when i turn the needle valve off and then twist to turn the co2 on, CO2 comes out of the asa before i twist it on all the way. is that what it's supposed to do?

when i turn on the needle valve co2 comes out of the needle valve.


----------



## Jaggedfury

On the top of your ASA On/Off should be a thread. You should leave this fully closed (As High as it can thread upward) Attach the ASA On/Off valve onto your paintball tank. With the needle valve closed also. Open the top of the ASA On/Off Valve(Closing it will make it go downward), so it push down on a pin to release the pin valve on the paintball tank itself, thus releasing co2 gas into the ASA On/Off valve chamber. Then go ahead and slowly open your Needle Valve to desire level. If you notice a hissing sound before you open your Needle Valve, you have a leak somewhere. 

The very top thread is what I"m talking about.


----------



## imdanny

Okay so am i supposed to have the ASA opened all the way( turned clockwise) before turning on my needle valve? because before i can even turn the ASA on all the way, i hear a hissing sound. i _think_ its coming out the bolt that is used to plug the gauge.


----------



## Jaggedfury

To be safe. I would close your ASA (Counter clockwise). Twist off the ASA unit self. Open that thread that's on the other side to plug up the gauge, should be a hex screw thread. Telfon tape it and put it back in. Tighten it to where it's hand tighten. Twist on the ASA unit. Close off your needle valve COMPLETELY. Then open your ASA thread (clockwise fully down).

Listen for any hissing sound, if so you're still leaking somewhere. If not, go ahead and open your needle valve and adjust to desire level.


----------



## antbug

coldmantis said:


> did you teflon tape the needle handle part or just the connecting ends?


Just on the connecting ends



imdanny said:


> Okay so am i supposed to have the ASA opened all the way( turned clockwise) before turning on my needle valve? because before i can even turn the ASA on all the way, i hear a hissing sound. i _think_ its coming out the bolt that is used to plug the gauge.


I had to put teflon tape on both of mine.


----------



## Euroamg

Note to all using Co2 pressurized tank: 
Make sure not to let your tank go really empty 50-100 bar. You should have it refilled by that time. Your Co2 tank will be filled with water & mess up your gauge. Especially when it sits lower than the aquarium tank. A pressure gauge will be nice to keep track of it. 
Install a check valve to prevent water back flowing to the Co2 tank. 

I have a swagelok needle valve i bought since '98 when i started planted tanks..Haven't given me any trouble all those years... Its well worth it in my opinion.

Be safe everyone. Make sure kids don't reach for the co2 tank.

Great Co2 paintball tanks..


----------



## coldmantis

just curious if any has tried this to setup a paintball co2
http://www.tankspiration.com/2010/04/diy-co2-setup-using-paintball-supplies/
Because when I order another ASA on/off with the gauge attached from ebay and a swagelok nv it will cost me around 35ish why not just spend the same amount on a regulator with needle valve, on/off pin valve and a coupler instead. I live in Canada so everything here is expensive or you can't find it locally...


----------



## imdanny

theres a small leak comming out the bottom of my ASA. Idk what your guy's ASAs look like but mine looks like a bullet and on one side it's flat and at the bottom of that im getting lmedium sized bubbles comming out. i put teflon tape and screwed it with a wrench and it still leaks no matter what. =[. it's not something that affects the performance but its a waste of co2


----------



## Jaggedfury

If it's leaking below the ASA On/Off, There is a Rubber Seal "O" ring that goes on the Paintball tank thread itself. Often times, this thread get damaged and causes leaks. It's very common to replace, due to the fact that Paintball Co2 tanks gets twisted off from Paintball gun and twisted on. It's only made from rubber and it wears after a few times of twisting it on and off. Replace it. It's about $1.09 to replace.


----------



## Antix

After reading most of the posts in here it sounds like exactly what I was looking for for my 20L. The only thing is that I'm in Canada. When I tried to order the ASA and gauge from Amazon it came out to $50 just for the shipping and I can't seem to find a cheap ASA that would ship to Canada for a reasonable amount. Any ideas or suggestions on where I could find one?


----------



## chumlee

Find a paintball shop or possibly just a sporting goods store around you. They should have it. It's a pretty common item in paintballing.


----------



## coldmantis

average cost in canada for a asa adapter is around 20 bucks, go ebay there is a silver one I got it for like under 10 bucks, but just to let you know that canadian paintball stores don't carry the asa adapter with 2 holes just the ones with 1 hole, if they have the ones with 2 holes it would probably cost like 60+


Antix said:


> After reading most of the posts in here it sounds like exactly what I was looking for for my 20L. The only thing is that I'm in Canada. When I tried to order the ASA and gauge from Amazon it came out to $50 just for the shipping and I can't seem to find a cheap ASA that would ship to Canada for a reasonable amount. Any ideas or suggestions on where I could find one?


----------



## Eden Marel

Can this thing do a minimum of 30 PSI? I'm not sure if this PSI thing has any correlation to bubbles per second, all I'm interested in doing it 1-2 bubbles per second and maybe using the Atomic Bubble Diffuser thingy that GreenLEaf Aquarium has which needs a minimum 30psi pressure.


----------



## keithy

Eden Marel said:


> Can this thing do a minimum of 30 PSI? I'm not sure if this PSI thing has any correlation to bubbles per second, all I'm interested in doing it 1-2 bubbles per second and maybe using the Atomic Bubble Diffuser thingy that GreenLEaf Aquarium has which needs a minimum 30psi pressure.


short answer is yes. You can have 30 psi, but you will not know the output pressure with this setup. But I am sure that it can be more than 30psi if you want it to be(adjusting needle valve). The challenge with this setup is to get a low enough pressure and flow(fine tuning) so that it would be "just right" for your setup.


----------



## Register

keithy said:


> short answer is yes. You can have 30 psi, but you will not know the output pressure with this setup. But I am sure that it can be more than 30psi if you want it to be(adjusting needle valve). The challenge with this setup is to get a low enough pressure and flow(fine tuning) so that it would be "just right" for your setup.


It would be interesting to see what the actual pressure is post needle valve with a reg set at 30 psi. Have to give it a try.


----------



## keithy

Register said:


> It would be interesting to see what the actual pressure is post needle valve with a reg set at 30 psi. Have to give it a try.


register,
In our application, we do not need the pressure to be very precise. if you really want to know the pressure there are ways, but might not be simple of economical. Even is you have a regulator set at 30psi, you have to also know the loss of the needle valve to estimate precisely what the pressure post needle valve is. Maybe somebody else can chime in on this or have some better idea of how to measure the pressure post the needle valve, but I do not think it is necessary if you're just trying to get co2 into your tank. try to base your judgement on the bubble counter rate and your drop checker and you should be good.


----------



## happi

http://di105.shoppingshadow.com/ima...57560&t=12/22/10 07:53:25 PM&r=6&d=40.0&rt=mr
has anyone used this one and how is it working for you, just won this item for $11.00 including shipping. hopefully it will work on my 20oz painball tank.

thanks


----------



## accordztech

I went to lowes to buy that needle valve, they raised the price to 12 bucks!


----------



## Eden Marel

accordztech said:


> I went to lowes to buy that needle valve, they raised the price to 12 bucks!


Wow what the??? I just bought mine two days ago and it cost $5.50!! Good thing I went early, also Home Depot has it I think, but it was around thesame price maybe a few cents difference I can't remember.


----------



## Noahma

Eden Marel said:


> Wow what the??? I just bought mine two days ago and it cost $5.50!! Good thing I went early, also Home Depot has it I think, but it was around thesame price maybe a few cents difference I can't remember.


That is what I got mine for too lol


----------



## Noahma

Southern Black widows have a brown abdomen and an orange pattern.... I think I will start to spray my trees each year lol


----------



## Eden Marel

Wrong topic?!  I sure hope there no spiders in this CO2 process!! I'm scared of spiders!




Noahma said:


> Southern Black widows have a brown abdomen and an orange pattern.... I think I will start to spray my trees each year lol


----------



## chumlee

LOL when I just read that I was like WTF hahah I can't stop laughing right now.


Eden Marel said:


> Wrong topic?!  I sure hope there no spiders in this CO2 process!! I'm scared of spiders!




Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


----------



## Noahma

chumlee said:


> LOL when I just read that I was like WTF hahah I can't stop laughing right now.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


omg lol!!! I had two windows open and posted it in the wrong one lol!!! :icon_wink


----------



## Eden Marel

is the tubing in Lowes that is under where you get the needle valve co2 resistant? They had two different types of tubing one was clear and one was white and I believe they were made with two different ingredients/.


----------



## Jaggedfury

The one you want to get is the one that says on the tubing itself "Do not use for Ice Maker". It is printed every 4 inches or so of the clear tubing outer layer. The tubing should be clear also and it's slightly a little bigger than the standardize aquarium air pump tubing that they use. I don't remember the size.


----------



## accordztech

Noahma said:


> That is what I got mine for too lol


To bad It didn't work correctly LOL. Im going to return it


----------



## Noahma

accordztech said:


> To bad It didn't work correctly LOL. Im going to return it


The part number should be A41 with a pink strip at the top of the package. It is a brass compression needle valve.


----------



## Jaggedfury

For those using Watts Needle Valve, here is my actual bag from almost a year ago. I found it in a drawer lol. 










Hope that helps. ;D


----------



## accordztech

I got the a-42 because I needed a fitting on both sides since this valve was just going to be going in-line and not on a solinoid of any sort. But the other one that you guys listed costs 9.99 

But it didnt work splitting my co2 from my other tank, it didnt build up enough pressure to operate the other side.


----------



## coldmantis

Jaggedfury said:


> For those using Watts Needle Valve, here is my actual bag from almost a year ago. I found it in a drawer lol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hope that helps. ;D


I wonder if the LF at the end of the model number means anything, I bought many and returned many none had LF on them.

.... Just realized that LF could mean Lead Free.....


----------



## Jaggedfury

Correct, that's what it stands for. I assumed all of them sold at every Homedepot within the USA would say LF on it. 

Didn't know they had some sold without the LF.


----------



## coldmantis

Jaggedfury said:


> Correct, that's what it stands for. I assumed all of them sold at every Homedepot within the USA would say LF on it.
> 
> Didn't know they had some sold without the LF.


I believe it's California law that products are lead free, everywhere else that doesn't have that law I don't think they carry Lead Free version.


----------



## Eden Marel

Mine doesn't say LF... anyways I have a problem with the on/off thing I got.

Is this thing removable or something?










Cuz the other side didn't have a problem...


----------



## Eden Marel

OK never mind about that problem, I managed to dig up one of those wrench thingies that come when you assemble a office chair and took that thing out since I recognized the shape.

But I screw everything in, counte clock turn the on/off valve, screw that in and then, clockwise the on/off and nothing happens!! The handle on the needle valve is as tight as it can go.


----------



## Noahma

It's hard to type my response on my phone, so i will post what to look for in about a Half an hour when I am at my computer.


----------



## Eden Marel

How do I know if the tank has stuff in it? O_O Maybe it's empty or something


----------



## Noahma

When you bought the tank, did you go have it filled?

They are sold empty. Walmart I think can fill them for a few bucks. 

If you did, and nothing is coming out. Then check the needle in the ASA valve, they have a tendency to come loose, which would keep it from closing. You can get in there with a 1/4" (I think) socket and tighten it down a bit.


----------



## Eden Marel

Walmart can fill them what section of the store? Ok well I guess I'll just have to do it later after the holidays...


----------



## Noahma

Eden Marel said:


> Walmart can fill them what section of the store? Ok well I guess I'll just have to do it later after the holidays...


The sports area where they have the guns might be able to fill it. There also might be a paintball store in your area that should be able to fill it to. My 20oz tank costs around 6 bucks to fill. It is barely over 800psi after a month and a half of having it up and running.


----------



## Eden Marel

I push down the button on the CO2 and some sort of gas came out, well it hissed like some gas was escaping? OR is it just residue CO2, not really full?


----------



## Jaggedfury

Eden Marel said:


> I push down the button on the CO2 and some sort of gas came out, well it hissed like some gas was escaping? OR is it just residue CO2, not really full?


If you're able to press down on the co2 pin on the paintball co2 tank itself, there's just barely a bit of co2 left. Which mean your tank is empty.

That black hex screw you took off, make sure you use telfon tape around it before you thread it back in it's original place. You can buy a gauge for 2.99 -9.99 and put it there instead, that way you can see how full/empty your tank is.

Sport Chalet, Sports Authories, Any local Paintball stores, some Wal-Marts, Big 5 Sporting goods will fill your Co2 tank. I advice to just bring the c02 paintball tank only when refilling. 

I suggest at the same time, if your c02 paintball tank is bought used.. to replace the "O" ring on the paintball tank above the thread where the push down pin is at. It's rubber.


----------



## Eden Marel

Ah okay, well I bought it "new" from Amazon.com. Also did get a gauge, but its annoying how it is upside down when I screw it all the way tight 

So I will go get it filled on Monday!! Woot, excited to try this out, if I knew it was empty when I got it would have gotten it filled ages ago lol XD


----------



## Register

I am going a little different route. Here is my on/off with adjustable autococker LPR. Have a post body kit from Jason on its way. Hope is to regulate pressure from tank pressure of 850psi to 20-30psi and run a Fabco needle valve and get consistent bubble rates regardless of ambient temps and tank pressure. Will post more pics as parts come in.


----------



## ddtran46

Register said:


> I am going a little different route. Here is my on/off with adjustable autococker LPR. Have a post body kit from Jason on its way. Hope is to regulate pressure from tank pressure of 850psi to 20-30psi and run a Fabco needle valve and get consistent bubble rates regardless of ambient temps and tank pressure. Will post more pics as parts come in.


How much did you get the adjustable autococker LPR for? Where?


----------



## Register

Picked it up off of Mcarterbrown.com forums in the for sale section. It is a Palmer Rock Reg. Paid $35 shipped. Palmer makes really high quality stuff. Lots of cheaper LPR available out there.


----------



## Jaggedfury

I myself got into a little reading about the the Low Pressure Regulator Autocockers, they're a bit pricey. They range from $15.99 generic ones to well close to $75 for name brand ones. Keep in mind, it's a pressure regulator, to be safe, I would opt to get the higher brand ones since it's used to regulate high 850 psi to whatever 400psi or lower at the output to the needle valve.

The WPG Autococker LPR seems pretty good. Read good reviews about it. It's in the $20-$25 ranges.
The Palmer Autocockers LPR comes in Micro size still with 18'' npt threads. A little bit more up on the $40-$60ish range but quality is very well built. 

This is coming from a local paintball friend of mines, just reviews of Low Pressure Regulators.


----------



## Eden Marel

Well I got it filled at Sports Authority for $3.50. It is cold.

Now I test it and I get the reading on the gauge but it is leaking like crazy!! I can hear it and I stuck it in the water and the leak is coming from the needle valve and the gauge. I guess I should have wrapped it 3x with the tape cuz now I can't unscrew those things cuz I screwed them in so tight I can't unscrew them'.... lacking muscle power.... *face palm*


----------



## Eden Marel

Nevermind I got it to work, but I have a problem still. I turn on the ASA and when I turn it off it gets stuck at the reading and never drops so I have to open the needle valve and it spurts some liquid out... normal or ???


----------



## Clare12345

Eden Marel said:


> Okay so these... please verify because I don't want to get the wrong thing and have to PAY SHIPPING to return them. Thanks!!
> 
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Pure-Energy-20oz-Tank-graphic/dp/B0008G2WAW/ref=pd_bxgy_sg_text_c
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/32-Degrees-Quick-Forward-Adaptor/dp/B001MY331Q
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Paintball-32-Degrees-Deluxe-Gauge/dp/B001J4TZ8Y/ref=pd_sim_sg_1


So even if we get these items that Eden is getting, we still need the Watt A-41 Needle Valve? I looked online at the Home Depot and Lowes in my area and they don't have any. Anyone have one for sale or know where else to get one? Or a different brand that would work well with this same setup?


----------



## Eden Marel

Yea. Also HD and Lowes don't list the Watts A-41 valve on their site, you actually have to go visit the store to see if they have it. Most liekly they will though!


----------



## Clare12345

Oh. Great!


----------



## chumlee

you can use an A-40 also, but not an A-42....the A-40 is the same size as the A-41 but the fittings arent at a 90deg angle, the fittings are straight across.


----------



## Eden Marel

Okay, I think I got everything to work fine, here is a video of it in action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQnBWDjXfac


----------



## coldmantis

that look's like a lot of co2 going into a 10g tank, I hope your monitoring your co2 level with a drop checker.


----------



## Eden Marel

Well I am gonna get a drop checker, I'm waiting for them to get in stock at GLA sometime next week!!


----------



## Eden Marel

My things stops pumping out CO2 after a while even when both the needle and ASA are open, the gauge will be stuck at 800 but nothing is coming out of end of the hose, so I turn the needle valve and co2 comes spurting out. So I close it, and I also close the ASA, but it still stuck at 800, so I open the needle a little bit and co2 is coming out and the gauge drops very very very very slowly unless I open the needle more.


----------



## happi

*Wtf*

this thing has been pissing me off since i started to use this setup. i have wasted 4 bottles of co2 so far. the co2 leak crazy from those stupid hole they have put on the sides, WTF are they there for, to loose co2?

i feel like throwing this sh** away, i bought a new on/off and still the same problem, i don't see any problem with the o ring on the tank, it looks fine to me. could someone explain wtf is going on before i finally give up on this sh**.

i almost killed my fishes twice due to co2 not being stable. i manage to make it work for while, mean couple of days or 1-2 days before 1 full bottle is gone. the co2 will go off own it own or will increase on its own and then it leaked all the way from those stupid hole on it own today, WTF.

need:help:and someone explain the cause please.


----------



## Noahma

Can you post as many pics as possible. A few of the setup together, and a series showing the build by each step. Are you sure the little hole you are describing is going all of the way through to the chamber? Did you buy the same ASA as you had before? 

I would replace the o-ring no matter what, they are cheap, and to the eye it may look good, but may have some defect.


----------



## happi

Noahma said:


> Can you post as many pics as possible. A few of the setup together, and a series showing the build by each step. Are you sure the little hole you are describing is going all of the way through to the chamber? Did you buy the same ASA as you had before?
> 
> I would replace the o-ring no matter what, they are cheap, and to the eye it may look good, but may have some defect.


sorry i don't have much time to post the pictures right now, maybe i will post them later on, but i did post them before on this same thread somewhere. i bought a brand new ASA but still same problem, however i haven't try replacing the o ring yet, they appear to be fine to me. please send me eBay link to my message if you find anything cheap. 

i will give it one more try before i finally give up on this and go for something which will cost me more but will work for sure.


----------



## coldmantis

I had the same problem as you air was leaking out the small hole but it was only a little bit of air maybe like 2 bps, I had to readjust the asa adapter a few times before it seal properly, don't use to much strength to tighten it, I also tried replacing the o ring and that seemed to help, I think they sell it at walmart for like 2-3 bucks for like 5 of them or so.


----------



## Noahma

happi said:


> sorry i don't have much time to post the pictures right now, maybe i will post them later on, but i did post them before on this same thread somewhere. i bought a brand new ASA but still same problem, however i haven't try replacing the o ring yet, they appear to be fine to me. please send me eBay link to my message if you find anything cheap.
> 
> i will give it one more try before i finally give up on this and go for something which will cost me more but will work for sure.


When you purchased the second ASA, was it the same company? or was it a different ASA all together? 

Pictures are worth a thousand words, when you get the chance, post as many as you possibly can. My ASA does not have the hole you are describing.


----------



## happi

coldmantis said:


> I had the same problem as you air was leaking out the small hole but it was only a little bit of air maybe like 2 bps, I had to readjust the asa adapter a few times before it seal properly, don't use to much strength to tighten it, I also tried replacing the o ring and that seemed to help, I think they sell it at walmart for like 2-3 bucks for like 5 of them or so.


are you sure they have it at walmart, because i never seen any.


----------



## Noahma

Hmm... the picture from the ebay link you PM'd me shows a basic ASA with a drop forward cradle. I do not know why they would place a hole that would deliberately allow co2 to escape. I would hate to recommend an ASA for fear of the same problem, but you might want to check on amazon.com or a dedicated paintball store instead of going back to an ebay link, you might end up paying a bit more, but you could probably call the store first and see if the asa you are interested in has the hole or not.


----------



## Eden Marel

How mant times did you wrap the threads with the tape? I wraped it just once and it leak like crazy so I wrapped it 8 more times until I couldn't see the threads and now it is good. But I still have problem where the bubbles stop coming out of my Hagen Elite mini, and the guage is reading 800... so I think something is wrong/stuck...


----------



## coldmantis

happi said:


> are you sure they have it at walmart, because i never seen any.


positive, since I work there it's in the same place where they keep the paintball tanks


----------



## happi

still leaks even after replacing the o rings.


----------



## Noahma

Hmm... my ASA does not have the holes, are they threaded? 

one area you forgot to put the thread tape is where the needle is, that nut you can remove and put the tape around that as well.


----------



## happi

Noahma said:


> Hmm... my ASA does not have the holes, are they threaded?
> 
> one area you forgot to put the thread tape is where the needle is, that nut you can remove and put the tape around that as well.


i did put some tape there but not too much, but still that's not the problem, yes one of them have thread on them and the other one does not.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Eden Marel said:


> How mant times did you wrap the threads with the tape? I wraped it just once and it leak like crazy so I wrapped it 8 more times until I couldn't see the threads and now it is good. But I still have problem where the bubbles stop coming out of my Hagen Elite mini, and the guage is reading 800... so I think something is wrong/stuck...


You've fallen into the group that had the trouble with the Watts-A41 Needle Valve where it's not holding steady pressure. Not sure how to help you on that. The members who have used that with similar problem to yours, went a different route and got themself this, ******* Swagelok 1/8" Brass Needle Valve B-OVM2-BKB New,* instead along with 2 other parts from Watts at Homedepot that will end all your troubles and frustration. 

I have already sold all 3 of my paintball co2 setup to members here and they're using it fine. Haven't received any PM yet about it not working. I used Watts-A41 Needle Valve on All 3 paintball co2 setup myself. If the Watts isn't working for you, go with the above Swegelok needle valve for $8.99 and 2 other Watts couplers that cost under $6 dollars for both and you're all set.

happi, on your case, although there is numerous types of ASA on/off valve, Rail mount drop on/off valve, not sure why those tiny holes is leaking. With my setup, I also have those holes just like that but it doesn't leak at all. It's not all the way through, it's just hollowed out for the paintball gun handle to clip onto. You can remove it try to glue it shut, or plug it up tight. lol, other than that if it's leaking there, there's really no way to stop it from leaking. 

Options I would go is to get another on/off valve or rig that up to where those holes are shut off completely. Loctite Glue or Gorilla Glue. I'm sure those will harden enough to close it off completely. I used a dab of Gorilla Glue on one of my ceramic glass diffuser which cracked at the U joint, and it's working fine. Sealed it off completely, and that's pressurized co2 going through it.


----------



## happi

Jaggedfury said:


> You've fallen into the group that had the trouble with the Watts-A41 Needle Valve where it's not holding steady pressure. Not sure how to help you on that. The members who have used that with similar problem to yours, went a different route and got themself this, ******* Swagelok 1/8" Brass Needle Valve B-OVM2-BKB New,* instead along with 2 other parts from Watts at Homedepot that will end all your troubles and frustration.
> 
> I have already sold all 3 of my paintball co2 setup to members here and they're using it fine. Haven't received any PM yet about it not working. I used Watts-A41 Needle Valve on All 3 paintball co2 setup myself. If the Watts isn't working for you, go with the above Swegelok needle valve for $8.99 and 2 other Watts couplers that cost under $6 dollars for both and you're all set.
> 
> happi, on your case, although there is numerous types of ASA on/off valve, Rail mount drop on/off valve, not sure why those tiny holes is leaking. With my setup, I also have those holes just like that but it doesn't leak at all. It's not all the way through, it's just hollowed out for the paintball gun handle to clip onto. You can remove it try to glue it shut, or plug it up tight. lol, other than that if it's leaking there, there's really no way to stop it from leaking.
> 
> Options I would go is to get another on/off valve or rig that up to where those holes are shut off completely. Loctite Glue or Gorilla Glue. I'm sure those will harden enough to close it off completely. I used a dab of Gorilla Glue on one of my ceramic glass diffuser which cracked at the U joint, and it's working fine. Sealed it off completely, and that's pressurized co2 going through it.


isnt its better to get the real regulator and co2 tank, because i feel i already waste lot of money on this setup which was complete fail.
wasted 4 20oz co2 tanks less than month, bought 2 on/off valves with same problems. 

can you show me the pictures of the item that i need to set this properly and will i find all the parts at lowe's or home depot, please give me more info before i get the wrong parts again.

thank you.


----------



## Eden Marel

Awwww why do I have to be sooo unlucky..... sigh... I guess it'll have to wait a couple years til I get a job or something


----------



## Jaggedfury

It's not a totally waste. You can return your watts needle valve for full refund. Here is what you need. Some people got it to work, some didn't. I for myself did.

As far as your ASA On/Off Valve, that is where your problem reside. Different manufacture makes different shapes/size ASA On/Off Valve. Some have those tiny holes, some don't at all. Rig it up or get a different one. Search amazon for one, they have the red one that people are using on here for $5.99. 
I didn't want to leave anything out, so I added this picture for you regarding the RED On/Off Valve.









As far as Parts listed. This is what you need. Keep in mind, A member posted this up, I myself haven't fully assemble one yet.

Parts
****** Swagelok 1/8" Brass Needle Valve B-OVM2-BKB New GET THIS ON EBAY DO A SEARCH, its' $8.99. Ebay seller ID is "c6387".









HomeDepot 2 Items you need from WATTS to make the above Swagelok Needle Valve to work. Less than $6 dollars for both items. 










That's the best I can help you with.


----------



## Eden Marel

Oh ok, I'll try to find my reciept or something... how do I get the teflong tape off o.o


----------



## Jaggedfury

It just peels off, counter clockwise it and it'll come off.

Happi, if you dont need your current ASA On/Off Valve or you think it doesn't work and is a total waste.. send it to me free. I'll plug the whole either welding a dab of weld bead onto it or glue it up. ;D Not a total waste at all!


----------



## happi

Eden Marel said:


> Awwww why do I have to be sooo unlucky..... sigh... I guess it'll have to wait a couple years til I get a job or something



is that for me?


----------



## chumlee

I had the same problem so Instead I took apart some of my paintball guns and took off the part where you screw in the c02 tank. It is almost the same thing as the on/off but there's only 1 input so no gauge, and theres no little hole. I use the swagelock needle valve listed above, but today is the first day I set it up so I dont have anything to tell you about that. Maybe Ill send you all my parts jag, and you can put them together for me...if this setup doesn't work.


----------



## Register

Hoppi.....the part of the on off that screws down (knob) should have an o ring on it. Check it to make sure it is not torn. The tiny hole is to bleed off pressure when turning screwing tank. With high pressure air tanks (3000 or 4500psi) the pressure can lock the tank on. I would check the o ring and check were it seats.


----------



## chumlee

Also, the inside of the on/off comes out ,mine only took a pair of needle nose pliers, but that has 2 o rings on the inside also. Those were both shot on mine and I didnt feel like replacing them so that's why I just got rid of the whole thing.


----------



## Jaggedfury

chumlee said:


> I had the same problem so Instead I took apart some of my paintball guns and took off the part where you screw in the c02 tank. It is almost the same thing as the on/off but there's only 1 input so no gauge, and theres no little hole. I use the swagelock needle valve listed above, but today is the first day I set it up so I dont have anything to tell you about that. Maybe Ill send you all my parts jag, and you can put them together for me...if this setup doesn't work.


If you don't mind, snap a photo of all your parts for me lol. 

ASA On/Off Valve
Needle Valve - Swagelok I take it.
Watts 2 pieces parts

You've probably order from the same person as me on ebay on the Swagelok Needle Valve, except I ordered first and haven't receive mines yet. I spoken with the seller and he said to wait another week, so I'm still waiting on mine to get here so I can test the Swagelok Needle Valve myself. 

As far as you having any type of trouble while using the Swagelok Needle Valve, I'm not able to help you on that.


----------



## chumlee

Yeah, you sent me the link for that swagelock so I bought it and got it like a week ago. I also bought those two Watts parts but different ones than in the picture above (same size but one is straight rather than 90 deg, and the opposite for the other one ) ...

so far the needle valve is working great besides the fact that I almost ruined the threads on it when I was fiddling with some old paintball parts, but that's a different story....

I had a problem with my on and off so I switched it out for another ASA I guess you would call it but it doesn't have the on/off feature, it's just a screw on when you want c02 and unscrew when you dont. Its a stock one from a tippman A5 if you care to look it up, it only has one hole for the needle valve, and that's it...no bleed hole.


----------



## Jaggedfury

With that setup as described, I don't see why it won't work. Even with the stock tippman A5 "Screw on" only ASA On/Off, the 850psi pressure is push out from the paintball co2 tank and is put into that chamber where it reside at full 850 psi. 

That's mainly what the use of the ASA On/Off valve is used for, it acts like a output storage chamber from when the co2 gas is release outward into that compartment.

By putting a needle valve on it, Swagelok in this matter, it's rated at 1400psi +, the 850psi trapped in the ASA On/Off valve Chamber will be regulated down to whatever setting you have as far as your Swagelok Needle Valve can be adjusted. I don't see why it wouldn't work in your setup.

Try to picture what I said and see if you can understand it.

-Swagelok Needle Valve Fully closed. 
-You twist on your tippman A5 stock ASA On/Off Valve fully tighten
-Co2 rises upward from the paintball tank itself into the ASA On/Off Valve Chamber, from there it's locked and trap (assuming you have no leak)
-When you go adjust your Swagelok Needle Valve, this is when co2 gas will come out of the ASA On/Off Chamber. Depending on how much you open the Swagelok Needle Valve, it will result in lots of co2 gas or little bit of it going into your aquarium.

Yepp!


----------



## chumlee

Exactly...I was just trying to give happi an alternative to the on/off. the swagelock seems to close a little bit for me but I might just have to go over everything again, too early to really tell.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Only thing I advise with your setup is to let everyone know, if they do go off using a tippman A5 stock ASA On/Off Valve.. is to KEEP THE SWAGELOK NEEDLE VALVE FULLY CLOSED!

Or else, when you twist on the Tippman A5 Stock ASA On/Off Valve down far enough,(Since it doesn't have a upper push down valve pin) the co2 gas from the paintball tank will shoot 850psi straight out of the Swagelok Needle Valve and that might be dangerous or at least give you a scare lol.


----------



## chumlee

I kind of did the same thing and almost knocked myself out...I had one of those steel cables or whatever from a paintball gun that the c02 runs through and I had it screwed into my Swagelock and that is the thing that apparently ruined the threads on one side of my valve, because when I screwed in the asa the needle valve and all of the fittings became a missile, and the steel cable shot towards my face. I had to go change my pants after that LOL


----------



## Jaggedfury

Yepp, I can picture things and how they will react lol. Just becareful since your working with 850 psi. lol Keep us update on your Swagelok needle valve in the coming days/weeks. If there's any problem with it, note it down. So far, people using the Swagelok needle valve said it's working great and steady pressure adjustment.


----------



## happi

am just confuse now, can anyone tell me where i can throw away my co2 tanks and the needle valve and the ASA on/off?


----------



## chumlee

wait, you want to throw them away now? If this isn't for you then you can send them to Jag to fix them or sell them to someone on this forum (Me!!) who could use the parts, or at least the extra tanks... the easiest fix is to just gllue up the hole, I wouldve done that but I didn't have strong enough glue at the time.


----------



## Noahma

Eden Marel said:


> Awwww why do I have to be sooo unlucky..... sigh... I guess it'll have to wait a couple years til I get a job or something


Eden, bring your setup with you when you come for the co2 hosing and bubble counter tomorrow night and I will take a quick look at it. I might not be able to do much, since I will be working lol, but I can take a look. If you need to, and I cannot get it up and running tomorrow night, I can most certainly look at it more over the weekend and get it up and running for you.



chumlee said:


> wait, you want to throw them away now? If this isn't for you then you can send them to Jag to fix them or sell them to someone on this forum (Me!!) who could use the parts, or at least the extra tanks... the easiest fix is to just gllue up the hole, I wouldve done that but I didn't have strong enough glue at the time.




Go to an autoparts store and look for something called JB Weld, it is a two part epoxy kind of like clay. Mix it together like the directions say, and roll out a small portion, shove it in the hole and use some of the rest to create a cap over the stuff in the hole. This should fix the problem.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Nothing is junk, Co2 tank empty or not can still be sold. Even if it pass the hydro test date and isn't capable of being fill.. the paintball store will buy it from you. As far as the on/off valve it just takes some glue such as gorilla glue at homedepot. I imagine you have 4 of the same on/off valve since you said you purchased 4 paintball co2 tanks. It will be cost effective just to stick with your route and glue the hole up. 

I can surely make this work. Send it to me and I"ll weld it shut.


----------



## happi

Jaggedfury said:


> Nothing is junk, Co2 tank empty or not can still be sold. Even if it pass the hydro test date and isn't capable of being fill.. the paintball store will buy it from you. As far as the on/off valve it just takes some glue such as gorilla glue at homedepot. I imagine you have 4 of the same on/off valve since you said you purchased 4 paintball co2 tanks. It will be cost effective just to stick with your route and glue the hole up.
> 
> I can surely make this work. Send it to me and I"ll weld it shut.


i was just getting pissed at it, i bought 6 20oz co2 tanks for $40 and 2 on/off, i was going to set this up for my friends also but it did not even work for me. i was gona make a video and post it on youtube and name it how to setup co2 tank and in the video i was gona beat the hell out of the tank and the valves lol. 

i dont like to mess with the glue, i just need to find something else. my stuff is now on sale at utah classified adds and hopefully someone buy these tanks. i think i will go for the solenoid and regulator setup.


----------



## chumlee

Maybe ill weld mine shut , I have really no experience with this but would some solder work? I would think it would create a small metal missile with the solder because I dont have good welding/soldering skills .


----------



## happi

chumlee said:


> Maybe ill weld mine shut , I have really no experience with this but would some solder work? I would think it would create a small metal missile with the solder because I dont have good welding/soldering skills .



i think am going to use the soldering iron and see if it works


----------



## Jaggedfury

happi said:


> i was just getting pissed at it, i bought 6 20oz co2 tanks for $40 and 2 on/off, i was going to set this up for my friends also but it did not even work for me. i was gona make a video and post it on youtube and name it how to setup co2 tank and in the video i was gona beat the hell out of the tank and the valves lol.
> 
> i dont like to mess with the glue, i just need to find something else. my stuff is now on sale at utah classified adds and hopefully someone buy these tanks. i think i will go for the solenoid and regulator setup.


I didn't mean for that to happened. We'll, I'm sure me and other people on here will still provide you how to make it work. It's just up to you to try it or not. I hope going towards the other route is as breezed as it might seem to you. I apologize for it not working out with you. Good luck.


----------



## Noahma

happi said:


> i think am going to use the soldering iron and see if it works


Make sure you scuff up the surrounding areas so the solder holds better.


----------



## Noahma

happi said:


> i was just getting pissed at it, i bought 6 20oz co2 tanks for $40 and 2 on/off, i was going to set this up for my friends also but it did not even work for me. i was gona make a video and post it on youtube and name it how to setup co2 tank and in the video i was gona beat the hell out of the tank and the valves lol.
> 
> i dont like to mess with the glue, i just need to find something else. my stuff is now on sale at utah classified adds and hopefully someone buy these tanks. i think i will go for the solenoid and regulator setup.


On my 10 gal I have this setup, and on my 36 gal. I have a regulator with solenoid and high end needle valve. Both work great, but I do like the regulator lol. There is a kit for a paintball bottle, so if you decide to go this route, you do not need to get rid of the tanks. it is pricey, and I received it for xmas from my beautiful wife  This is what I have. http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/4531/product.web


there is also this one, which is essentially what we are creating here. 
http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/4530/product.web


----------



## zz_its_me

Jaggedfury said:


> HomeDepot 2 Items you need from WATTS to make the above Swagelok Needle Valve to work. Less than $6 dollars for both items.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's the best I can help you with.


Jaggedfury,

To save a couple bucks you only need the Watts A-15 1/4" x 1/8" Female Tube to FIP fitting to attach a hose to the Swagelok valve. It's like what you have pictured as Watts A-29, but is female and straight. It will screw right to the valve and then you attach your tubing to the other end. I think it was like $2.00 at Lowes. Here is a pic of my setup:










To the others that are having problems with the Watts valve. I too had trouble with it stopping after a few hours. I gave up on it after a week of trying to set it, but it always stopped in a couple hours. I got the Swagelok valve that Jaggedfurry has listed from E-bay. The only trouble with it that I had was it did slow way down after 2 days, but I forgot to fully close and open it several times before I put every thing together to loosen it up. I took my ASA/Valve off my co2 tank, fully closed/opened the valve several times. Put the ASA back on my tank, and no more problems. Steady as a rock at 1 bubble every 1.5 seconds (I'm sure I could adjust this anywhere I want with the Swagelok). I've been running this way since 12/11/10 so almost 20 days and my guage still reads 880 psi which is where I started. I posted what parts and where I got them in this thread on 12/11/10 above. 

I would suggest if you are going to try this set up just go with the Swagelok valve from e-bay. It's only about $11.00 with shipping. The watts for me was $7.50 with tax and didn't work. Really about the same if you look at it and I'm much happier with the Swagelok. It works, and I feel it is safer since it handles much higher pressure than we are asking of it where as we are pushing more than double the rated pressure through the Watts valve.

Once again a big thanks to Jaggedfurry for starting this and to the others who have gone before me. Without you I would have never tried this. I am very happy that I did, no more messy DIY and I'm getting growth on my plants that I've never seen before and I'm getting pearling(that never happend with DIY), so I know it is working. 

ZZ


----------



## Capsaicin_MFK

I just ordered 3 more Swagelok B-0RM2 needle valves. I am making another setup for my 10g tank once the HC is done filling in with immersed growth. If you want this paintball DIY business to work well you most definitely have to chain 2 needle valves together. The first valve is to bring down the working pressure and then the 2nd would be to finely tune your bubbles per second.

I love this co2 setup right now. I've only had to adjust the valve a few times because we changed the temp in the house.


----------



## chumlee

Oh I forgot to open and close the needle valve... going to do that right now.


----------



## zz_its_me

Noahma said:


> On my 10 gal I have this setup, and on my 36 gal. I have a regulator with solenoid and high end needle valve. Both work great, but I do like the regulator lol.  There is a kit for a paintball bottle, so if you decide to go this route, you do not need to get rid of the tanks. it is pricey, and I received it for xmas from my beautiful wife  This is what I have. http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/4531/product.web
> 
> 
> there is also this one, which is essentially what we are creating here.
> http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/4530/product.web


Noahma,

On the regulator with the selonoid, is the working pressure adjustable, or is it preset? I was looking at that very regulator a few days go as a possible future upgrade for the selonoid so I could turn off the co2 at night. In my research some people said the output working pressure was preset and not adjustable. can you give us a mini review of your system??? that would be great.

Thanks.....ZZ


----------



## Jaggedfury

zz_its_me said:


> Jaggedfury,
> 
> To save a couple bucks you only need the Watts A-15 1/4" x 1/8" Female Tube to FIP fitting to attach a hose to the Swagelok valve. It's like what you have pictured as Watts A-29, but is female and straight. It will screw right to the valve and then you attach your tubing to the other end. I think it was like $2.00 at Lowes. Here is a pic of my setup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To the others that are having problems with the Watts valve. I too had trouble with it stopping after a few hours. I gave up on it after a week of trying to set it, but it always stopped in a couple hours. I got the Swagelok valve that Jaggedfurry has listed from E-bay. The only trouble with it that I had was it did slow way down after 2 days, but I forgot to fully close and open it several times before I put every thing together to loosen it up. I took my ASA/Valve off my co2 tank, fully closed/opened the valve several times. Put the ASA back on my tank, and no more problems. Steady as a rock at 1 bubble every 1.5 seconds (I'm sure I could adjust this anywhere I want with the Swagelok). I've been running this way since 12/11/10 so almost 20 days and my guage still reads 880 psi which is where I started. I posted what parts and where I got them in this thread on 12/11/10 above.
> 
> I would suggest if you are going to try this set up just go with the Swagelok valve from e-bay. It's only about $11.00 with shipping. The watts for me was $7.50 with tax and didn't work. Really about the same if you look at it and I'm much happier with the Swagelok. It works, and I feel it is safer since it handles much higher pressure than we are asking of it where as we are pushing more than double the rated pressure through the Watts valve.
> 
> Once again a big thanks to Jaggedfurry for starting this and to the others who have gone before me. Without you I would have never tried this. I am very happy that I did, no more messy DIY and I'm getting growth on my plants that I've never seen before and I'm getting pearling(that never happend with DIY), so I know it is working.
> 
> ZZ


Awesome Inputs. Thanks ZZ. I went ahead and edit the very first post noting down the suggestion of going with the Swagelok Needle Valve to further lessen the complications of people going towards the Watts Needle Valve.



Capsaicin_MFK said:


> I just ordered 3 more Swagelok B-0RM2 needle valves. I am making another setup for my 10g tank once the HC is done filling in with immersed growth. If you want this paintball DIY business to work well you most definitely have to chain 2 needle valves together. The first valve is to bring down the working pressure and then the 2nd would be to finely tune your bubbles per second.
> 
> I love this co2 setup right now. I've only had to adjust the valve a few times because we changed the temp in the house.


Very cool to know too, I know people are trying to spend as less as they can towards this setup. That's how we came across problems with some ASA On/Off Valve being generic base. I myself used Custom Products and Shock-Tech ASA On/Off Valves which are up in the $45-$60 dollar ranges. Never had a issue once with the ASA On/Off Valve. I could see 2 Swagelok B-0RM2 Needle Valve being used in conjunction, but maybe folks can't see that happening since their current single Swagelok Needle Valve is working fine. Good to know! Thanks!


----------



## zz_its_me

chumlee said:


> Oh I forgot to open and close the needle valve... going to do that right now.


Chumlee,

Make sure you turn off your CO2 first :icon_smil don't want you flying around the room!

Yea I was excited when I got the Swagelok and forgot to do it. It's good practice with any new valve fully open it and then fully close it several times to allow everything inside the valve to seat into place before use.

I see your from Jersey too what part? Did you get stuck in the snow??? I'm over by Turnersville.

ZZ


----------



## happi

i made one of them work now, the nut was loose on the side and need some tape on it, well that fix one problem and i ran into another. now the co2 diffuser will work for while and slowly the bubbles will get less and less and stop working completely, now what?

am still working on the 2nd on/off to see if it will work by soldering it.


----------



## happi

Noahma said:


> On my 10 gal I have this setup, and on my 36 gal. I have a regulator with solenoid and high end needle valve. Both work great, but I do like the regulator lol. There is a kit for a paintball bottle, so if you decide to go this route, you do not need to get rid of the tanks. it is pricey, and I received it for xmas from my beautiful wife  This is what I have. http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/4531/product.web
> 
> 
> there is also this one, which is essentially what we are creating here.
> http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/4530/product.web



http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/4530/product.web

does this hook directly to the 20oz tank or do i need an adapter?


----------



## chumlee

That connects directly, and if the rate slowly decreases that could be because of a floating needle valve, that's what mine looks like when it floats. Try to play with it a little more though to lock in a bubble rate.


----------



## happi

chumlee said:


> That connects directly, and if the rate slowly decreases that could be because of a floating needle valve, that's what mine looks like when it floats. Try to play with it a little more though to lock in a bubble rate.



i dont want it to lock at higher bubble rate, i will be using this on 4g tank, i want very very little co2 in this tank. at least i made it work now:icon_smil

i cant take out the stupid bolt from the other one, its supper tight.


----------



## zz_its_me

Jaggedfurry,

Up several posts ago you mention that your Watts valve was A-41 LF "LF" being leadfree. Maybe this is the problem that the rest of us have. We are getting a A-41 which may be a lower quality brass that does contain lead. This would mean the parts of the valve may be softer than yours, and are deforming under 800 psi pressures. Thus why it is inconsistent for us but works great for you. As you know many companies make their products different to meet California standards (I'm almost surprised they allow you to buy CO2 as it is out there:icon_smil:icon_smil). You very well may be getting a higher quality valve than the rest of the country due to the lack of lead mixed into the brass?

ZZ


----------



## Noahma

happi said:


> http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/4530/product.web
> 
> does this hook directly to the 20oz tank or do i need an adapter?


it does hook directly to the 20oz tanks. 



zz_its_me said:


> Noahma,
> 
> On the regulator with the selonoid, is the working pressure adjustable, or is it preset? I was looking at that very regulator a few days go as a possible future upgrade for the selonoid so I could turn off the co2 at night. In my research some people said the output working pressure was preset and not adjustable. can you give us a mini review of your system??? that would be great.
> 
> Thanks.....ZZ


It is preset. Mine is sitting at around 30psi It does make the tank a little top heavy, but if it is on a flat spot (stand base) it sits still. The needle valve is very smooth, and easy to control the bubble count. Right now it is constantly sitting at 1bps on my 36 until my drop checker comes in the mail. Very easy to hook up. The solenoid works flawlessly, longer time will be needed to see its reliability. I am happy with it, and I think it will work for me long term. I have a couple extra bottles to swap around, I know I will be doing tank swaps more frequently with this setup than with a 5lb, but I am within min. of a place that refills for 3.50 on the 20 oz. bottles. 

I would not be surprised if someone switches out the preset regulator with another regulator, everything is just bolted together so it looks possible.


----------



## Noahma

happi said:


> i dont want it to lock at higher bubble rate, i will be using this on 4g tank, i want very very little co2 in this tank. at least i made it work now:icon_smil
> 
> i cant take out the stupid bolt from the other one, its supper tight.


lol the ASA I had also had the bolt in very tight, I ended up taking an alen wrench and a small bar and using tons of torque to get it out lol. 

Glad you are starting to get the problems solved.


----------



## zz_its_me

Noahma said:


> it does hook directly to the 20oz tanks.
> 
> 
> 
> It is preset. Mine is sitting at around 30psi It does make the tank a little top heavy, but if it is on a flat spot (stand base) it sits still. The needle valve is very smooth, and easy to control the bubble count. Right now it is constantly sitting at 1bps on my 36 until my drop checker comes in the mail. Very easy to hook up. The solenoid works flawlessly, longer time will be needed to see its reliability. I am happy with it, and I think it will work for me long term. I have a couple extra bottles to swap around, I know I will be doing tank swaps more frequently with this setup than with a 5lb, but I am within min. of a place that refills for 3.50 on the 20 oz. bottles.
> 
> I would not be surprised if someone switches out the preset regulator with another regulator, everything is just bolted together so it looks possible.


Noahma

Thanks for the mini review, very helpful. That is something that I may move to in the future. I've just started this setup and I want to see how long a 20oz tanks lasts for me. If it isn't too bad I'll stay with this and on 24 hours. If I go through too much co2 I may move up to the regulator.


----------



## happi

Noahma said:


> lol the ASA I had also had the bolt in very tight, I ended up taking an alen wrench and a small bar and using tons of torque to get it out lol.
> 
> Glad you are starting to get the problems solved.


looks like the bubbles are stable now, should be good to go now. 

its snowing here and 1 o'clock in the morning and every other tool is in the garage, maybe i need to get the wrench out of there later on today, too lazy to go out there now, but hey, i did brought my other tools from there earlier, not going there again.


----------



## happi

for those who want to solder those holes, its kind of risky and it wont solder properly, i tried this with the solder iron.


----------



## Jaggedfury

zz_its_me said:


> Jaggedfurry,
> 
> Up several posts ago you mention that your Watts valve was A-41 LF "LF" being leadfree. Maybe this is the problem that the rest of us have. We are getting a A-41 which may be a lower quality brass that does contain lead. This would mean the parts of the valve may be softer than yours, and are deforming under 800 psi pressures. Thus why it is inconsistent for us but works great for you. As you know many companies make their products different to meet California standards (I'm almost surprised they allow you to buy CO2 as it is out there:icon_smil:icon_smil). You very well may be getting a higher quality valve than the rest of the country due to the lack of lead mixed into the brass?
> 
> ZZ


That might be true, but I really wouldn't be able to confirm that unless you call Watts headquarter and find out. You can buy CO2 here, there's quite a few Paintball Co2 stores up here matter of fact. Probably 5-6 within a 18 mile circle radius. I have no clue on the chemical reaction that goes on when mixing lead with brass, it might hinder it's qualities in a positive or negative way. I just know, Homedepot sells Watts-A41 LF. That picture of the actual Watts bag was the very first Watts-A41 LF Needle Valve that started this thread. I just happened to find it in a drawer. But yepp, wouldn't know. 

Will I still use the Watts A-41 LF Needle Valve in the near future of my tank setups, Yes I will.

Will I setup another Paintball Co2 setup using the Swagelok Needle Valve, Yes I will.

Yepp! ;D


----------



## Noahma

happi said:


> looks like the bubbles are stable now, should be good to go now.
> 
> its snowing here and 1 o'clock in the morning and every other tool is in the garage, maybe i need to get the wrench out of there later on today, too lazy to go out there now, but hey, i did brought my other tools from there earlier, not going there again.


lol I know what you mean, that same storm is due here tomorrow eve. Will be the first real snow of the season in the front range of Colorado. 



zz_its_me said:


> Noahma
> 
> Thanks for the mini review, very helpful. That is something that I may move to in the future. I've just started this setup and I want to see how long a 20oz tanks lasts for me. If it isn't too bad I'll stay with this and on 24 hours. If I go through too much co2 I may move up to the regulator.


Your welcome, I decided to go with that over putting another DIY system on my 36 due to the amount of co2 a larger tank will go through, and I wanted it to shut off at night. It is set on a timer with my lights. I read reviews of someone putting it on a tank slightly larger than mine and they went through a 20 oz bottle about every two months. That to me is not that bad lol


----------



## coldmantis

Capsaicin_MFK said:


> I just ordered 3 more Swagelok B-0RM2 needle valves. I am making another setup for my 10g tank once the HC is done filling in with immersed growth. If you want this paintball DIY business to work well you most definitely have to chain 2 needle valves together. The first valve is to bring down the working pressure and then the 2nd would be to finely tune your bubbles per second.
> 
> I love this co2 setup right now. I've only had to adjust the valve a few times because we changed the temp in the house.


Tried that with watts a-41 and I think A-42 don't work same problem when using one to lower the pressure and one to control the bps, so I gave up on the 5th of this month and order the swagelock, it was shipped on 7th and now it's the 30th and I still haven't received it yet(damn usps), I haven't touched the watts needle valve since the 5th and to my surprise I checked today and it's still doing 1b/3secs for one setup and 1b/4secs, I guess it's steady now? I had the floating problem for over 1.5months and the only thing I changed on the 5th was the tubing from silicone to co2 resistant tubing, not sure if that was the problem or not but it works now


----------



## happi

Noahma said:


> lol I know what you mean, that same storm is due here tomorrow eve. Will be the first real snow of the season in the front range of Colorado.


get ready to clean some snow from the driveway



> Your welcome, I decided to go with that over putting another DIY system on my 36 due to the amount of co2 a larger tank will go through, and I wanted it to shut off at night. It is set on a timer with my lights. I read reviews of someone putting it on a tank slightly larger than mine and they went through a 20 oz bottle about every two months. That to me is not that bad lol


i refilled my 20oz today and it cost me $3.50, going back there again to get my other 3 tanks refilled later on today.


----------



## pinking91

warning!!! i sugest not buying a co2 tank from Guerilla air. i bought one recently and since im new to co2 tanks i didnt realize that it was broken. it was releasing alot of co2 while i was screwing in the on/off blue thing. i thought this was normal. i ended up emptying the whole tank within 5 days. i dont even know where the co2 went cuz my fish are still alive. when i took it for refill it broke as soon as the paintball guy finished refilling it. he was the process of taking it off when it broke and emptied the whole tank again!! so i ended up buying a 24oz from him. i also had to pay for the co2 that leaked out from the broken tank. save yourself the trouble/money and buy a pure energy brand. amazon sells them for 15$ if you get them at the paintball store the come prefilled, or at least mine did and if it breaks you dont have to ship it back. my new co2 works fine and im also using the swagelok needle valve. as for the two additional parts just go to your local homedepot, search for a-706 and a-29 in the plumbing/valve, fitting area. it shouldnt be that hard to find. this thread rocks and good luck with your co2 tanks


----------



## happi

can we use UNIVERSAL CO2 FILL ADAPTER REMOTE ON OFF for this setup or it will not work, because i found some less than $10 and some of them comes with the gauge. 
http://www.supply-n-demand.com/Enlarge.aspx?id=10282939


----------



## keithy

Happi,
I felt sorry about your situation..... you seem to have a lot of problems with parts. Before you go buy some more stuff, I noticed on my ASA valve, there is a nut(allen key nut) that you can tighten for your on/off screw. Try to tighten that and maybe, just maybe, it will help. 

Regarding the question you just asked.....There are two things to consider when you're looking at remote on/off valve. These are (things to check for) 

1. the thread size that screw on your paintball tank(must be US standard paintball tank threading) 
2. The output thread size that your neeedle valve goes in(must be whatever size your valve is, 1/8" if I still remember correctly). 

Having said that, check those two things before you buy. Also, do ask if you have another outlet for your gauge(if you need it). if those things mentioned above matched your requirements, I don't see why it wouldn't work. But then again, I am not a paintballer, it is best if you PM Jaggedfury because he knows his stuff. 




happi said:


> can we use UNIVERSAL CO2 FILL ADAPTER REMOTE ON OFF for this setup or it will not work, because i found some less than $10 and some of them comes with the gauge.
> http://www.supply-n-demand.com/Enlarge.aspx?id=10282939


----------



## Jaggedfury

happi said:


> can we use UNIVERSAL CO2 FILL ADAPTER REMOTE ON OFF for this setup or it will not work, because i found some less than $10 and some of them comes with the gauge.
> http://www.supply-n-demand.com/Enlarge.aspx?id=10282939



Going through my PM boxes 1,800 messages lol, I noticed a month and half ago 4 people have asked about using the above fill adapter remote on/off that you mentioned. It will work, There's no bleeder hole or tiny holes at all. Since it is used as a adapter piece to fill co2 into your paintball tank, it will give you the option to add a gauge. 

Now with the link above, I have seen fill adapter remote on/off myself in person at the paintball store and some of them are 1 threaded hole. If you want 2 threaded holes on it, all it takes is a call to the company and reference their part number and ask. Doesn't hurt to call. It's for a piece of mind.


----------



## chumlee

Ugh my swagelock valve keeps on closing....even after I turned it on and off a bunch of times. All I did was teflon tape everything, turn it on/ off a few times and then screw it in!!!! Was there anything else that you guys did? 

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


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## Jaggedfury

I recalled reading back a couple of pages a week ago, that you didn't need to telfon tape EVERYTHING on the Swagelok Needle Valve. It was also said that if you did, it will caused some sort of problem. That might be your problem right there. You might want to go back 10-15 pages and read about it lol. That's just me recalling my memories of reading it. Again I"m getting old so my memories aren't so good but I did remember reading about it!


----------



## zz_its_me

chumlee said:


> Ugh my swagelock valve keeps on closing....even after I turned it on and off a bunch of times. All I did was teflon tape everything, turn it on/ off a few times and then screw it in!!!! Was there anything else that you guys did?
> 
> Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk



Chumlee,

The only place I put the teflon on the Swagelok was on the input where it screws into the ASA, and the output where I put the adapter to attach the tubing. 

One thing though, the Swagelok I have is "ONE-WAY". There is an arrow on it, Make sure that you have it installed with the arrow pointing away from your co2 tank and with the flow of the co2. I'm sure you do, but just in case.

ZZ


----------



## chumlee

I actually have to check if mine is facing the right way. I will take it apart when I get home and un teflon tape everything. After I set up my new fluval ebi!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


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## Jaggedfury

I won't be able to set up my Swagelok Needle Valve one for a while. The seller I purchased it from, ran out or something happened because I didn't receive mines and it's been almost 2 1/2 weeks. Supposely he ran out so... I got my money refunded.


----------



## Eden Marel

I turned it some more and now I can get it at 1-2 bubbles per second.


----------



## chumlee

Sorry, I haven't updated on the Swagelock....apparently someone...not going to say any names *cough**cough* put the arrow depicting the flow facing the wrong way. After that, my... I mean this person's needle valve has been working great.

Moral of the story, You are your avatar!!! Typical chumlee move right there LOL.


----------



## Register

well received my needle valve and check valve. Going to set the reg to 30psi and see how she does.


----------



## chumlee

Register said:


> well received my needle valve and check valve. Going to set the reg to 30psi and see how she does.


That looks like an awesome setup you got there!


----------



## zz_its_me

chumlee said:


> Sorry, I haven't updated on the Swagelock....apparently someone...not going to say any names *cough**cough* put the arrow depicting the flow facing the wrong way. After that, my... I mean this person's needle valve has been working great.
> 
> Moral of the story, You are your avatar!!! Typical chumlee move right there LOL.


 
Guess you're going to have to work the night shift for a while :icon_wink:icon_wink:icon_wink

Glad you got it working......

ZZ


----------



## pinking91

zz_its_me said:


> Jaggedfury,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ZZ


ok i the same exact setup as this but im having some problems. my co2 tank empties out way faster than it should. jaggedfury states that this setup should last 4-5 months. mine on the other hand dropped from 800psi to about 400psi over night. i have a 24oz tank and it runs 24/7 at about 2-4 bubbles per sec on vinyl tubing. i already checked and there doesnt seem to be any leaks. is anybody else experiencing this problem? am i letting out too much co2? could it be the tubing? my fishes are still fine so i dont know where the rest of the co2 is going. i just ordered a glass diffuser acouple of weeks ago it should arrive this week so atm im using a nutrafin yeast/sugar ladder type diffuser which isnt very efficient at diffusing the co2. this could be the reason why my fishes are still alive. if this keeps up i might have to refill it again tommorrow which is a hassle cuz i have to drive across town to the closest paintball store.


----------



## coldmantis

did you dip the whole top setup in water to test for leaks? it's shouldn't be 800-400 in a day, how big is your tank 4bps is a lot, 4bps is like for a 100g tank.


----------



## Jaggedfury

*The fact that it last 4-5 months is that, it's at 1bps. There's a big different from 1bps to 2-4bps. I would assume and most likely happens without any leakage, you'll be able to get close to 3 months at 2bps. As far as 3bps and 4bps, I do not run mines on these and I wouldn't know. 

Best way to test for leakage at this point in time with your setup, is to submerse the entire paintball co2 setup with everything hooked up on it with it at 2-4bps into bucket of water, preferably 5gallon bucket. Hold it down for a minute and observe it for air bubble leakage.

I know this above way is difficult to see, What I do also is just submerge it into a 10 gallon fish tank so I can check for leakage points if there is any and pinpoint it down. If you're not using co2 tubing, it will leak out eventually as the liquid co2 exit the paintball tank and come out as gas, the chemical will long run burst that non co2 tubing or eats it up causing small pinhole leakage.

Even set at 2-4 bps, no way can it drop half of it's pressure overnight.

Take for example, the other paintball co2 setup that are sold online and some fish shops. They are connected to a 88grams pellet gun size co2 cylinder. At 2-4bps, you'll get at least 2 weeks off this 88grams pellet gun size co2 cylinder.

Also keep in mind 88gram co2 cylinder tank equals 3.1oz. You're using a 24oz tank, and you're losing half of the co2 pressure inside, which will be 12oz. Losing that much overnight has to be a leak. Or else where would it go. Double check your connections, any part where it's coupler together for leaks.*

*Keep an eye on your fish until you double check your setup, if the fish are up towards the water surface, there's way too much co2 gas in the tank. If you're in an emergency situation where the fish is gasping for air, turn off your needle valve, and start pumping as much air as you can into the tank. Powerhead works great or a powerful air pump with adjustable air outlet control. 

Last thing you want to do is wake up next morning and find your fish dead.

I suggest getting a drop checker to find our your co2 level. I'm not too familiar with those hagen ladder, not sure if they're really effective in finding out your bubbles per seconds or whatever the case it.

Report back after you fiddle with it and let me know. I will be hooking one of these up just like you guys with the Swagelok Needle Valve if the seller ever ship mines to me. lol. 

Just because there's teflon tape doesn't necessary mean it's not leaking. Double check, Triple check to be 100% certain. *

*Here's a photo illustration of Areas to check.(Hope you didn't mind ;D). Do not touch or mess with the BURST VALVE. DANGEROUS! MARKED IN YELLOW!*


----------



## liveforthis

I got a 20oz co2 tank and http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/239899/product.web (controller) would that be all the parts I need besides line and reactor?


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## pinking91

ok i did manage to find a leak after submerging the co2 tank into a bucket of water. it leaked about maybe 2-4 bps so i had it retaped. 

however my tank is almost empty, it droped from about 350 psi to 100psi over night. i turned it off cuz ppl have mentioned not to have the bottle completly run out ( i do have a check valve but taking extra procautions). ill have it refilled maybe tomorrow and probably buy another co2 tank for backup so ill report back afterwards

as for the ladder diffuser and bubbles per second(bps) method, im abit confuse on that. for me i count every bubble that comes out of the tube and enters that ladder on one second intervals. im not sure how to apply that to a glass diffuser. this could be the problem my co2 tank empties so fast but not exactly sure till i get my glass difusser and compare them.

i have a API ph checker along with API gh/kh checker. i just mite invest in a co2 drop checker since its more convient and plus im too lazy to do the calculations. i have check the ph swings and at 1-2bps there is almost no change at all. i start to get a good amount of co2 at 3-4 bps without harming the fishes, so thats why i kept it that high. hopefully the glass diffuser is much better.

as for the swagelok needle valve, one thing ill report is that it does seem to keep a steady flow of co2 but after awhile it seems to slow down. however due to the fact that my co2 tank is almost empty, that can be the cause because the pressure inside of the co2 tank isnt the same as when it was when it was full. if remebered correctly it did keep a steady flow of co2 until about 400 psi then it started to slow down. but these are just my observations.


----------



## Jaggedfury

I went to Homedepot to grab some stuff for work related, I happened to take a look at the brass needle valves that they have in plumbing department. What I noticed are majority of everything they carry that is brass pipes/valves that are from Watts are marked Lead Free. Not sure how this goes for other state wide stores.


----------



## Clare12345

The Home Depot in my area didn't have it, so I got the other two Watts parts (the A-706 and the A-29) and ordered the Swagelok needle valve. Its still in the mail.


----------



## Bimmer

Newbie to the forum here. I was prompted to join based on this thread. I want to do this for a 72-bowfront. I'm sure I can find the parts I need between and Ebay. Just need to make a shopping list. One thing I wanted an opinion on was the diffuser. When I was using the DIY 2-liter Coke bottles as reactors, I simply cut a hole in the strainer on the intake to my biofilter and then inserted the CO2 tube into the hole in the strainer and let the CO2 get drawn into the filter and then dispersed with the water output. Do you see any reason why this wouldn't work with this system?

Thanks folks!

~David


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## Jaggedfury

I would just go with a ceramic glass diffuser, they're cheap on ebay and on the sns forum on here. Get them while you go browsing for your parts on [Ebay Link Removed]


----------



## Noahma

Bimmer said:


> Newbie to the forum here. I was prompted to join based on this thread. I want to do this for a 72-bowfront. I'm sure I can find the parts I need between and Ebay. Just need to make a shopping list. One thing I wanted an opinion on was the diffuser. When I was using the DIY 2-liter Coke bottles as reactors, I simply cut a hole in the strainer on the intake to my biofilter and then inserted the CO2 tube into the hole in the strainer and let the CO2 get drawn into the filter and then dispersed with the water output. Do you see any reason why this wouldn't work with this system?
> 
> Thanks folks!
> 
> ~David


With it being on a 72 gal tank, you will have to refill the bottle quite frequently. I have a slightly different setup with my 36 gal. and I have been told by others using the dual gauge regulator and solenoid that I will get probably around 40-50 days out of a 20 oz. bottle. I have 2 20 oz. on the tank so switching out is easy, and I can keep the supply of co2 consistent. So far on my 10 gal on the DIY setup I am at about 35 days with it just now reaching 800 psi.


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## coldmantis

I would also recommend a glass diffuser, since running the co2 in the intake doesnt work well with a power filter, its better way better suited for a canister filter. If I ran a HOB filer I would probably have to run it at 2bps or more but sinve I run a ehiem I just need 1b/3secs to get my drop checker to turn green


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## JEden8

So I am new to this forum but have built this same setup that Jaggedfury was so kind to post. However, I too am running into the issue with the needle valve but have a couple questions about it. How much tape are you putting around the needle portion of the needle valve? Also, when I initially turn on my tank, if I have the needle valve shut all the way I begin to get a hissing sound. I'm assuming that this is a leak? I just have it hooked up temporarily as Trinity Paintball sent me the wrong On/Off Valve so I just took. The one I have now doesn't have the gauge on it but I will have that one on Friday. The last question is about the Swagelok Valve. Are there any stores that stock these types of valves so I wouldn't need to worry about waiting for shipment? I contacted Swagelok themselves as there is a store located about 30 minutes from my home, and they wanted $50 for the same valve. Any ideas?


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## Jaggedfury

What needle valve is it? If it's the Watts A-41 needle valve, I suggest taking it fully apart to examine all parts of it, and put it back together along with teflon taping each threaded parts. If there is still problem after this that's has to do with the Watts A-41 needle valve, I would suggest to ditch it and go with a Swagelok needle valve instead. By anychance is your Watts needle valve mark Watts A-41 LF? The one I used is Watts A-41 LF, someone mentioned that the LF being Lead Free might have something to do with it steady pressure. No one has confirmed this yet so if it doesn't work move on.

As far as how many time you wrap the telfon tape around a thread, I often times goes from 5-6 times to be safe. If there is a hissing sound when the needle valve is closed, you have a leak somewhere from the needle valve point and backward to the asa on/off valve itself.

As to my knowledge, I visited a few plumbing stores and commericial application stores that mainly deal with commericial products. They mentioned they don't carry Swagelok Needle Valve but they have heard of their brand.

I suggest getting the Swagelok Needle Valve online through ebay, there is a guy that sells it. I'm assuming that's where most people here gets it at along with me. I haven't rig it up yet, but I have got my Swagelok Needle Valve.


----------



## Jaggedfury

I will be testing 2 Different Needle Valves. They are not Homedepot or Lowes needle valve.
However, they might look similar but they won't be the same.

The first needle valve is Swagelok Needle valve, the 2nd ones are bought from a plumbing store that deals with industrial applications. The brass will work fine under paintball setup 850 psi. Quoted from the owner of the store, I stated my setup and approaching and he said without doubt he put his product to way pass the thousandth psi mark. 

Unlinke the Swagelok Needle Valve, you do not need to purchase any additional couplers or attachments. This actually came with everything that's needed to work it exception of co2 line. Just plug in the co2 line and teflon tape everything and give it a go.










Won't be awhile til I get to test it. Waiting on my on/off valve to arrive.
I'm not sure if Ace itself sell these products, since I've gotten it through a friend that works at a Plumbing store. It might be industrial reasons, I'm not sure but you can go and check the Ace store itself if people are curious.


----------



## JEden8

Jaggedfury said:


> What needle valve is it? If it's the Watts A-41 needle valve, I suggest taking it fully apart to examine all parts of it, and put it back together along with teflon taping each threaded parts. If there is still problem after this that's has to do with the Watts A-41 needle valve, I would suggest to ditch it and go with a Swagelok needle valve instead.


I will give this all a shot and check out an ACE store around here to see if they have those valves you posted below.



Jaggedfury said:


> By anychance is your Watts needle valve mark Watts A-41 LF? The one I used is Watts A-41 LF, someone mentioned that the LF being Lead Free might have something to do with it steady pressure. No one has confirmed this yet so if it doesn't work move on.


It is a Watts A-41 without the LF. I am attaching a picture of it.



Jaggedfury said:


> As far as how many time you wrap the telfon tape around a thread, I often times goes from 5-6 times to be safe. If there is a hissing sound when the needle valve is closed, you have a leak somewhere from the needle valve point and backward to the asa on/off valve itself.


That's what I assumed but I'll fully hook everything up solid when I get my new asa. It'll get here on Friday. I only did 2 wraps though so that could be the problem. Thanks for the help! I'll let ya know how it goes.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Yepp, your doesn't have the LF which stands for Lead Free. Like I mentioned above, someone stated that might be a cause of the unsteady pressure. Not confirm yet though.

Don't go buying the Ace Needle Valve yet if you dont want to waste money. I can test it out first once my on/off valve gets here and report back on here. I searched Ace's website and they don't have it at all. Not sure if the store sells it, but I can get plenty of it from my friend's plumbing store if it works out great. I get a deal there too ;D

I've been asked to build a few of these and I stated sometime in January I'll try to get a few rig up and see how it goes before I ship it off.


----------



## JEden8

Jaggedfury said:


> Don't go buying the Ace Needle Valve yet if you dont want to waste money. I can test it out first once my on/off valve gets here and report back on here. I searched Ace's website and they don't have it at all. Not sure if the store sells it, but I can get plenty of it from my friend's plumbing store if it works out great. I get a deal there too ;D


I checked out their website as well and it just states that they don't sell these items online. There is a whole list of products that they don't sell online. I called the store by me and they said that they don't stock it but they can order it and have it here by Saturday. Possible option for others?


----------



## Jaggedfury

Cool, how much was it? just curious? Wondering if my friend at the plumbing store ripped me off or not lol.

Again keep in mind, I have not tested this needle valve yet branded by ACE. So if you're willing to fork up some money and give it a shot, I am held no way in the event that the outcome becomes wasted money. Just thought I state that ;D

Wish my asa on/off valve would get here quicker. I decided not to go with name brand asa on/off valve and opt for the cheaper ones that everyone else is getting so that way we're in the same boat if something doesn't go right. I want to feel your pain! lol


----------



## b10n

do i really need a gauge for the tank, because i could just by this for really cheap

[Ebay Link Removed]

which is like 7 bucks shipped

and the one with a gauge cost 15 shipped


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## JEden8

Jaggedfury said:


> Cool, how much was it? just curious? Wondering if my friend at the plumbing store ripped me off or not lol.


They couldn't give me a price on it. They were closed and asked me to call in tomorrow when the person that could order it was in. I'll call again and get a price and let ya know.



Jaggedfury said:


> Again keep in mind, I have not tested this needle valve yet branded by ACE. So if you're willing to fork up some money and give it a shot, I am held no way in the event that the outcome becomes wasted money. Just thought I state that ;D


I won't be looking into getting it until I give it a shot with my new asa this weekend. I'm also going to try and wrap everything a lot better then check for leaks the correct way this time. If it ends up not working then I will look into it.



Jaggedfury said:


> Wish my asa on/off valve would get here quicker. I decided not to go with name brand asa on/off valve and opt for the cheaper ones that everyone else is getting so that way we're in the same boat if something doesn't go right. I want to feel your pain! lol


Where did you order your asa from? I got mine straight from TrinityPaintball.com and they are in Cali and I'm in Florida and it's only 4 days for standard shipping through UPS.


----------



## JEden8

b10n said:


> do i really need a gauge for the tank


The advantage with having a gauge is you know exactly how your psi is currently. Like right now I don't have a gauge and I cannot tell where my tank is at. I'm just planning on getting it filled before I begin to hook it up when I get my new asa this weekend. I just don't want to take the risk. But I can tell in the weight that I've used up about half a tank with just experimenting with everything. I could be wrong though since I'm new at this as well. Anyone else have any input?


----------



## b10n

the guy at the paint ball store told me that psi does not tell you how much is in your tank, its the pressure. how much in ur tank is measured by ounces.
he said ur tank can be nearly empty and still read the same psi. but i find that some wat correct because tempature can raise psi, but is it practical?


----------



## JEden8

b10n said:


> the guy at the paint ball store told me that psi does not tell you how much is in your tank, its the pressure. how much in ur tank is measured by ounces.
> he said ur tank can be nearly empty and still read the same psi. but i find that some wat correct because tempature can raise psi, but is it practical?


Sorry...That's what I was meaning by that. I didn't know, however, that your tank can be almost empty and still read the same. I've just been told that the advantage with them is just so you know when it's time to change your tank.


----------



## b10n

wouldnt you know when no more co2 comes out? lol
this asa/ onoff valve is the only thing i need for my co2 setuppp


----------



## Jaggedfury

b10n said:


> the guy at the paint ball store told me that psi does not tell you how much is in your tank, its the pressure. how much in ur tank is measured by ounces.
> he said ur tank can be nearly empty and still read the same psi. but i find that some wat correct because tempature can raise psi, but is it practical?


That not true, at least I dont think. At the time I was running my paintball co2 tanks, I noticed decrease as month progress. Although these gauges often time get stucked at the same needle point reading, mines was not the case and it did decrease as the pressure of the tank is used up.

I got my asa on/off valve from amazon and it's 32degree brand and is in Red. I figured this is the cheapest asa on/off valve out there, so I should fork up some money and purchase it and feel the pain that everyone else is going through. That way, if there isn't any complications with it, I can direct folks that way to get the same asa on/off valve.. since it's $5.99 lol.


----------



## Jaggedfury

b10n said:


> wouldnt you know when no more co2 comes out? lol
> this asa/ onoff valve is the only thing i need for my co2 setuppp


You will need the following.
-Paintball Co2 Tank
-Asa on/off valve
-1/4'' to 1/8'' Needle Valve with Co2 coupler line build in or purchase seperate.
-Co2 tubing
-Some way of diffusing Co2 gas into aquarium tank(Glass Ceramic Diffuser)
-Teflon tape to tape up threads
- Optional (Check valve)

That's should be it.


----------



## b10n

yea 
i got all of that and im usin the b-ovm2
i just need to get the tank filled and an asa/ on off
but the 32 degrees doesnt have a gauge

im thinkin of buyin the ebay one that is just black
search ebay for this "air n2 co2 asa adapter fill station remote on/off"


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## JEden8

b10n said:


> wouldnt you know when no more co2 comes out? lol
> this asa/ onoff valve is the only thing i need for my co2 setuppp


From my understanding, once the tank gets to a certain point it will dump the entire contents into the tank at once. Which could be bad...Not for the fish but for the equipment.

I purchased this ASA:

http://www.trinitypaintball.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=TR+657


----------



## Jaggedfury

We'll see how it goes with my shipping, alot of items I purchased have been mishandle or lost so I've gotten a few replacements already. I will keep that trinitypaintball website in mind.


----------



## b10n

i wanna keep this as cheap as possible, the 32 degrees one is about 10 shipped and the ebay one is 6 bucks shipped.
i just need to kno if a gauge is necessary


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## Jaggedfury

The gauge is not needed. Just nice to have. It will work fine without it.


----------



## shd17

Does this anyone know if these will work on paintball tank? Found them on [Ebay Link Removed] They said thread is 22mm. Having trouble controlling rate with watts needle valve and considering using these.


----------



## Jaggedfury

The paintball co2 tank will need a 1/8''NPT thread going into the ASA on/off valve. The above picture looks like standardized tank thread and nut instead. It won't work unless you somehow used a reducer of some sort to make it work. It is possible but good luck finding those reducers.


----------



## Noahma

shd17 said:


> Does this anyone know if these will work on paintball tank? Found them on [Ebay Link Removed] They said thread is 22mm. Having trouble controlling rate with watts needle valve and considering using these.


this one works, I use it on my 36 gal. 
http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/4531/product.web

they have a cheaper version too, not sure how well it works, probably the same as the regulated one I have on my 36 hehe
http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/4530/product.web


----------



## Bimmer

Noahma said:


> this one works, I use it on my 36 gal.
> http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/4531/product.web


This one carries a pretty hefty price tag. I think I'm going to try to find one around $50 or so to run on my 72-gallon bowfront.


----------



## Noahma

Bimmer said:


> This one carries a pretty hefty price tag. I think I'm going to try to find one around $50 or so to run on my 72-gallon bowfront.


It is a bit pricey, but works like a charm.


----------



## pinking91

Jaggedfury said:


> *
> 
> Report back after you fiddle with it and let me know. I will be hooking one of these up just like you guys with the Swagelok Needle Valve if the seller ever ship mines to me. lol.
> *


ok here is the update on my diy co2 tank, good news is that i finally got this thing to work. psi isnt dropping like it did before, its been on for about 2 days now and the psi still reads close to 850. i also invested in a co2 drop checker and some co2 tubing.

bad news is that i had to make 2 trips to the paintball store across town because the paintball dude broke my co2 tank while refilling but he gave me a new one and apologize so i guess it wasnt that bad

as for the swagelok needle valve, i cant say that its working perfectly. it seems like it slowed down again but the difference isnt so dramatic like 2bps to 1.5bps. maybe its just my valve cant say the same for everyone else.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Cool, Another way to tell the pressure coming out of the paintball tank is to get a good view of the tiny bubbles being disperse out through the ceramic glass diffuser. I tend to give it a look just once a day and look at it another day. If there's any decreases, you'll be able to spot it right now. I never had any decrease, always stayed constant as far as bubbles rising from the ceramic glass diffuser. From time to time I also take a peek at the gauge itself to see where it's at. Since the gauge doesn't move daily, it's just takes a quick glance at it. 

Keep an eye for a few days to week and half and see what happens. I'm not sure how you're dispersing your co2 into the tank but I find ceramic glass diffuser is easier to see bubble flows. Use the gauge as a 2nd references but don't expect it to move a hair line in a week.

If it takes less than $20 dollars a year to refill it, I'm all in for it. With paintball co2 tank, you will get pearling like crazy provided you have good amount of light. Something you can't do with DIY yeast fermentation system.


----------



## coldmantis

I just received another asa on/off but with gauge attached, I put it on my 24oz which I started on oct 31st. Since then I been doing a lot of experiments with this setup and loss alot of co2. I weighed the co2 tank when I first got it filled, it was at 3lbs 12oz I weighed it again about 2 weeks ago it should around 2lbs 15oz I think. but my gauge shows it as 900psi?? does it take a couple of days before the gauge levels out to the proper psi? and of course no leaks checked many times in a bucket of water.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Gauges that show 900 psi or above, I'm not quite sure how to answer that. Keep in mind those gauges moved by pressure, and they do get stuck. 

In your situation, I would just keep it running and give it a few weeks to a month and see if the gauge move a bit, if it doesn't your gauge could be bad.

When I first started this, after the first month, it dropped to 800 psi from 850. Then it continued to drop in increments of 50-100psi monthly. So give it some time, It doesn't move at all for days to weeks.


----------



## coldmantis

ya I thought it was weird, but if I turn off my asa and slower open up the nv I see the gauge going down, but as soon as I open up the asa the gauge goes back to 900psi


----------



## crossCANADA

hey i just finished building one of these setups after i read this forum, i would like to put the picture up of what i built but i dont really know how.. any help?


----------



## Jaggedfury

Upload it to a free webhosting website such as www.photobucket.com and then just link your photos on here.


----------



## honda237

coldmantis said:


> ya I thought it was weird, but if I turn off my asa and slower open up the nv I see the gauge going down, but as soon as I open up the asa the gauge goes back to 900psi


Thats because the gauge reads the psi inside the asa, so when the asa is open the tank pressure is there, but when its closed and you open the NV, your letting the left over co2 and the pressure inside the asa out, so that is why your needle valve would go down in that situation.

I have one of these set-ups and love it, except when i was using the watts needle valve, but it was still less work than DIY co2.


----------



## do00ber

Anyone know if these work with this setup..

I can't tell if theres two thread inputs.. Maybe someone is using it currently?

http://www.amazon.com/32-Degrees-Quick-Forward-Adaptor/dp/B001MY331Q/ref=pd_sim_sg_2

thanks


----------



## Jaggedfury

That will work, not sure if it comes with a 2nd threaded hole for a gauge. I actually got that also. Taking awhile to receive it though...


----------



## do00ber

Jaggedfury said:


> That will work, not sure if it comes with a 2nd threaded hole for a gauge. I actually got that also. Taking awhile to receive it though...


Is a gauge 100% necessary or is it just to prevent you from having to go empty everytime..?

BTW Jagged if thats one of your tanks in your sig thats absolutely gorgeous. Congrats lol


----------



## Jaggedfury

A gauge is not 100% necessary. It's just used to examine how many co2 pressure is in the tank. The entire setup will work fine without a gauge. 

I have seen gauges from as low as $2.99 and up. A Gauge would be nice to have though, if your ASA on/off valve has the extra threaded hole for it. 

That is my tank. Thanks.


----------



## chumlee

You do not need the extra threaded input, I am currently using an ASA with only one input for the needle valve...my swagelock.

....got ninja'd lol


----------



## crossCANADA




----------



## crossCANADA

oh man that was trial and error trying to get that photo on here... that brass part with the gauge like you guys were saying isnt needed but its is nice to see what pressure is left in the tank, i did buy the watts needle valve but it didnt seem like it wouldnt be able to stay consistant


----------



## Jaggedfury

crossCANADA, yours looks awesome. Wish My Swagelok Needle Valve comes in Silver lol. We're stuck with the brass gold color.


----------



## Jaggedfury

For people who have bought ASA On/Off Valve and didn't come with a 2nd threaded hole for a Gauge option. You can go this route with a few adapter pieces that will give you the option to install a Gauge. Sloppy work of mines did it in 2 minutes lol.










Hope that helps. It's all in order on how it should be connected. You get the idea. ;P


----------



## chumlee

Thanks a lot!!!!! Now if we can find some Watts part numbers on those.....if I go and get them I will sure to post but I am not too good with this plumbing stuff so I'll probably buy the wrong ones!


----------



## cawolf86

crossCANADA said:


> oh man that was trial and error trying to get that photo on here... that brass part with the gauge like you guys were saying isnt needed but its is nice to see what pressure is left in the tank, i did buy the watts needle valve but it didnt seem like it wouldnt be able to stay consistant


Where did you get your T valve? Is that the Ebay Swagelok?


----------



## Jaggedfury

It's just a online photo of Male Tee valve with 3 threaded inputs. These doesn't necessary needs to be made by Watts. As long as they're 1/8'' NPT size, they will work. It's pretty common sense how it comes into play as far as connecting it all together.

Please keep in mind, I just made that photo for illustration reasons.. I myself haven't gone and look at parts or exact parts or location of where to get it. Just a "Idea that came up'' as a way to hook up a Gauge if the ASA on/off valve didn't come with 2nd threaded hole option. 

I am sure though, that these products/couplers can be found. I will try to look for it this Sunday locally at stores here where I live. If not successful, I can do searches online and find it that way. 

*The Tee Male Connector is the harder one to find. If anyone have time to find it before me, do share. *

That is the Ebay Swagelok Needle Valve. I have not yet test this yet, but people have been using it and it works very well.

There are other ways you can go as far as the end fitting that gets plug into the co2 tubing. Just make sure your nut thread is 1/8'' inorder to thread into the Swagelok Needle Valve. Might be easier to go this route instead. Someone have gone this route before with the below Hose barb. Watts make this product but I dont' know the exact part number.










Just put it at the end of the Swagelok Needle Valve in replacement of the other connector to air tubing.


----------



## JEden8

So I got my new ASA today and re-wrapped everything and it all works great! So far at least. Pressure has not gone down in an hour so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. When I re-wrapped everything I went about 6 or 7 times around. I had a leak around the screw part of the top of the ASA but I wrapped it and it is all good now. The only other issue I have is now that I have 2 pressure gauges, I've tested both, but I don't get any pressure. Any ideas?


----------



## crossCANADA

cawolf86 said:


> Where did you get your T valve? Is that the Ebay Swagelok?


 i bought that valve at a local valve and fitting supplier that only deals swagelok, everything i picked up was just around town


----------



## Jaggedfury

JEden8 said:


> So I got my new ASA today and re-wrapped everything and it all works great! So far at least. Pressure has not gone down in an hour so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. When I re-wrapped everything I went about 6 or 7 times around. I had a leak around the screw part of the top of the ASA but I wrapped it and it is all good now. The only other issue I have is now that I have 2 pressure gauges, I've tested both, but I don't get any pressure. Any ideas?


Once in awhile, if you're using those pressure gauge for paintball sport, the needle tends to get stuck. They are cheaply made, keep in mind you can get them for $2.99 and up. If you're tank is full or somewhat half full, and your gauge doesn't move at all, it's most likely stuck. I would examine it by looking through the threaded side of it and see if there's any debris in it.


----------



## Bimmer

Well I'm getting the pieces slowly. I got a used Stryker paintball CO2 tank 24 oz shipped off Ebay for $23. I also took your advice and bought from c6387 on Ebay the ****** Swagelok 1/8" Brass Needle valve B-OVM2-BKB. 

Getting the ASA shut off valve and gauges next week.

Thanks for the schematic on showing how it all fit together!

~David


----------



## RuggerMSC

you dont need all those extra pieces with the swaglock valve.....i set mine up directly to the asa with no problems. All you have to do is adjust where you begin the connection so that the t handle on the valve dosent interfere with the asa valve. all those pieces will make it so much of a pain if you ever get a problem with leaks.

Edit: Basically so it forms a 90 degree angle


----------



## Jaggedfury

All of those extra pieces (2 pieces to be exact) is for people who purchase their ASA on/off valve with just one threaded hole for a needle valve at the beginning of this thread that later found out they want to add in a gauge. Rather than purchasing another ASA on/off with 2 threaded holes, one for the gauge and one for the needle valve, they can go with the above extra pieces to rig up a gauge through 1 threaded ASA on/off valve. ;D

Hope that didn't get too confusing. I am aware that you can hook up the Swagelok Needle Valve straight to the ASA on/off valve.


----------



## Clare12345

<3 Exactly what I needed. My 24oz CO2 bottle comes in the mail Monday, so I'll know how to put mine together! Thanks!... Except I don't have the 1/8" NPT adapter or the Tee Male Connector. Do I need those? I have everything else in the picture. 
Thank you!!


Jaggedfury said:


> It's just a online photo of Male Tee valve with 3 threaded inputs. These doesn't necessary needs to be made by Watts. As long as they're 1/8'' NPT size, they will work. It's pretty common sense how it comes into play as far as connecting it all together.
> 
> Please keep in mind, I just made that photo for illustration reasons.. I myself haven't gone and look at parts or exact parts or location of where to get it. Just a "Idea that came up'' as a way to hook up a Gauge if the ASA on/off valve didn't come with 2nd threaded hole option.
> 
> I am sure though, that these products/couplers can be found. I will try to look for it this Sunday locally at stores here where I live. If not successful, I can do searches online and find it that way.
> 
> *The Tee Male Connector is the harder one to find. If anyone have time to find it before me, do share. *
> 
> That is the Ebay Swagelok Needle Valve. I have not yet test this yet, but people have been using it and it works very well.
> 
> There are other ways you can go as far as the end fitting that gets plug into the co2 tubing. Just make sure your nut thread is 1/8'' inorder to thread into the Swagelok Needle Valve. Might be easier to go this route instead. Someone have gone this route before with the below Hose barb. Watts make this product but I dont' know the exact part number.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just put it at the end of the Swagelok Needle Valve in replacement of the other connector to air tubing.


----------



## Clare12345

So basically I should have read the next post. . But, Does the gauge also fit into the swagelok setup without those two extra parts? Thanks for the description Rugger



RuggerMSC said:


> you dont need all those extra pieces with the swaglock valve.....i set mine up directly to the asa with no problems. All you have to do is adjust where you begin the connection so that the t handle on the valve dosent interfere with the asa valve. all those pieces will make it so much of a pain if you ever get a problem with leaks.
> 
> Edit: Basically so it forms a 90 degree angle


----------



## JEden8

Jaggedfury said:


> Once in awhile, if you're using those pressure gauge for paintball sport, the needle tends to get stuck. They are cheaply made, keep in mind you can get them for $2.99 and up. If you're tank is full or somewhat half full, and your gauge doesn't move at all, it's most likely stuck. I would examine it by looking through the threaded side of it and see if there's any debris in it.


I've looked at both of them and they both appeared to be fine. They both just read 0 psi. Also, my tank did slowly shut off in the middle of the night. I made some more adjustments and am attempting it again. I'll keep ya posted.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Clare12345 said:


> So basically I should have read the next post. . But, Does the gauge also fit into the swagelok setup without those two extra parts? Thanks for the description Rugger


If your ASA on/off valve has a 2nd threaded hole, then the gauge will have a spot to fit. Since 1 of the threaded hole, will be used up for the Swagelok Needle Valve. If you don't have the 2nd threaded hole, the entire setup will still work, you just won't have a option for a gauge. Unless you refer back to that photo I put together and go that exact route instead, that will give you the option to use a Gauge.
*
*That photo I put together, is only for people who's ASA on/off valve have only 1 thread hole, which will be used by a Swagelok Needle Valve**



JEden8 said:


> I've looked at both of them and they both appeared to be fine. They both just read 0 psi. Also, my tank did slowly shut off in the middle of the night. I made some more adjustments and am attempting it again. I'll keep ya posted.


Let it run for a month, make sure you're holding steady pressure without any leak. You shouldn't be messing with it once you have it setup. It's a setup and don't touch type thing. That's how I had mines setup. Then report back if your gauge have slightly drop or not.


----------



## JEden8

Jaggedfury said:


> Let it run for a month, make sure you're holding steady pressure without any leak. You shouldn't be messing with it once you have it setup. It's a setup and don't touch type thing. That's how I had mines setup. Then report back if your gauge have slightly drop or not.


So I got it to work now. I found a very small leak coming from the top of the ASA again. So I re-wrapped the threads of the top of the ASA and now the gauge reads at 900 psi. I'm still running into the issue with the pressure slowly going away. I have a question for you in regards to the needle valve. When you turn your CO2 on, do you adjust your needle valve or leave it closed all the way and just let it slowly seep out? Right now I have my needle valve just barely opened.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Close the needle valve completely. Twist the ASA on/off valve nob to release the co2 into the ASA on/off valve chamber. Your gauge should read 850psi right now. Now slightly turn your Needle Valve Arm to open. Very Slightly is the key, wait a few seconds to see if bubbles comes out, if not adjust it again slightly and wait a few seconds as it take travel through the tubing.


----------



## Clare12345

I have the same one as Eden Marel. I just pry the black piece out and the gauge goes in there? Hope I don't break it. 
She said later on that she did pry it out and is using a gauge, so I guess that's what happened. 


Eden Marel said:


> Mine doesn't say LF... anyways I have a problem with the on/off thing I got.
> 
> Is this thing removable or something?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cuz the other side didn't have a problem...


----------



## Jaggedfury

Are those two different holes? If so, one can be used for a Gauge, the other for a Needle Valve. Yes it goes there. If it's just one hole, then you have to use the Needle Valve there.


----------



## cawolf86

Just wanted to post my experience and give a big thanks to Jaggedfury for starting and maintaining this thread. I went to my local paintball store and purchased all the paintball supplies new for awesome prices. They also have a website (www.ANSgear.com) but I don't know their shipping details so prices may vary.

$20 - 20oz tank with filling









$4 - Pressure gauge









$13 - ASA with two threaded 1/4" openings









And from my local Home Depot

$0.75 - Teflon tape









$9 - Watts A-41 LF Needle Valve

















After following the steps in the first posts I came out with this:









And it works great! I had some difficulty getting the CO2 tubing to stay tight and I may take another look at that in the coming days but other than that I am able to achieve one bubble/sec or even one bubble/two sec.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOXuX7D4DLw

Sorry for that horrible video quality I guess I uploaded from my phone wrong.

Thanks again!

-Andrew


----------



## Clare12345

Just a note - About that on/off valve I showed a pic of IS a black plastic screw and can come out to put the gauge in, I heard from a member who did that. Thank you!!


----------



## Jaggedfury

Nice! I have just confirmed that the Ace Needle Valve works great. I was able to fine tune it to 1.5bps steady. Since I am making these locally for people in my town, I will be selling this also on the sns form to help people out so they don't have to go looking for parts.

I have not yet run the Swagelok Needle Valve yet, didn't have time to get the couplers. I will run that tomorrow when I go around looking for parts. 

Check my sns if you want a setup minus the paintball tank.


----------



## shd17

Jaggedfury said:


> Nice! I have just confirmed that the Ace Needle Valve works great. I was able to fine tune it to 1.5bps steady. Since I am making these locally for people in my town, I will be selling this also on the sns form to help people out so they don't have to go looking for parts.
> 
> I have not yet run the Swagelok Needle Valve yet, didn't have time to get the couplers. I will run that tomorrow when I go around looking for parts.
> 
> Check my sns if you want a setup minus the paintball tank.


 Is the Ace Needle Valve from Ace hardware? Is it in local stores?


----------



## Jaggedfury

It's not at the Ace Hardware store. I got mines from a plumbing store that's family owned here in town. I think it's the only shop here in California.

The Ace part number on the package will not show up on their main website. I do not know how much it cost from Ace either.

Let me know if you need one or a few. I can get them instead.


----------



## Jaggedfury

I'm going to go to 2 Ace Hardware stores in a bit and a Mom and Pop's Plumbing stores along with Homedepot to check out some stuff. I will try and find connectors and pieces that I would think will work as attachment or make this setup better.

I will also confirm if Ace Hardware stores will have this Needle Valve in stock, that way I don't have to supply it to you guys. I'll bring mines in and references the part number with their manager. 

I will get back to you guys in a few hours. No biggie for me, taking my 300zx twin turbo out for a ride  The sun is finally up! Haven't seen it for days! RWD 426 Horsepower 4,500 lbs of metal doesn't do too well when the road is wet!


----------



## Jaggedfury

Ok guys, girls lol fellow aliens. 

I found the necessary parts to make this all work now. Please bear with me, I tried to make it simple as it is. Parts were found at LOWES. 
*
I went to ACE Hardware and they don't carry the ACE Needle Valve. It's Discontinued quoted by the manger.*

*Initial Brainstorm thought.*









*Putting it into play mode.*
I did however able to piece together a *Gauge Fitting option for people who has 1 Threaded ASA On/Off Valve.* Here is the part numbers and prices from Lowes. This is used with a ACE Needle Valve.

Parts and Pricing.








*Final Production.*








*Gauged Installed!*









And this is my very own Swagelok Needle Valve that I've finally had time to put together as well.










Let me know if you have any questions! Sorry about the ugly hard writing, I do write better than that and more neater... just that I had 3 Red Bull Drinks and you get the idea lol.:biggrin:roud:


----------



## jbacker7

The biggest investment in this whole idea to me seems to be the ASA on/off, right? To me, and maybe I'm wrong, but it seems uneccessary. I don't see what you couldnt take a female/female fitting like this (not necessarily this piece but just so you know what I mean.. http://www.lowes.com/pd_34828-104-A...s_ord_nbr|0||p_product_quantity_sold|1&page=5).... with your tank in one end and a needle valve with a rating high enough to handle the approximate 800 psi these tanks are being filled at in the other side. I know you're probably thinking the needle valve you would need would be higher priced and I can't vouch for an exact number as I just came across this thread, but would it be enough to make it more expensive than buying an ASA? What do you guys think?


----------



## Eden Marel

I guess I'm leaking somewhere or adding a lot of bubble... cuz I've only have 200 PSI left and I rigged this up sometime after Xmas.


----------



## Jaggedfury

jbacker7 said:


> The biggest investment in this whole idea to me seems to be the ASA on/off, right? To me, and maybe I'm wrong, but it seems uneccessary. I don't see what you couldnt take a female/female fitting like this (not necessarily this piece but just so you know what I mean.. http://www.lowes.com/pd_34828-104-A-727_4294822030_4294937087_?productId=3134253&Ns=p_product_prd_lis_ord_nbr|0||p_product_quantity_sold|1&pl=1&currentURL=%2Fpl_Brass%2B_4294822030_4294937087_%3FNs%3Dp_product_prd_lis_ord_nbr%7C0%7C%7Cp_product_quantity_sold%7C1%26page%3D5).... with your tank in one end and a needle valve with a rating high enough to handle the approximate 800 psi these tanks are being filled at in the other side. I know you're probably thinking the needle valve you would need would be higher priced and I can't vouch for an exact number as I just came across this thread, but would it be enough to make it more expensive than buying an ASA? What do you guys think?


That will not fit onto the PAINTBALL CO2 TANK Thread. Therefore, An ASA On/Off Valve is needed. 

Picture yourself staring down on a Paintball Co2 tank, you will noticed a center pin. How would you depress that pin,(which is holding 850psi)to allow the co2 gas to rise upward?

Built in all ASA On/Off Valve is a depressed Pin. The ASA On/Off Valve have a Upper Twist Knob(Not always the case), when you twist it downward, it depress it's pin downward to touch the pin on the Paintball tank. This action will release the co2 gas out from the Paintball tank then held into the ASA On/Off Chamber, until a valve(Needle Valve) or opening opens.

Even if you find the right size fitting to fit on the Paintball Co2 Tank, you won't have a depress pin to depress the Paintball Co2 Tank's Pin.


----------



## Eden Marel

I did the leak test again and there was small bubble that takes forever to form under the ASA's turny thing and from the Gauge again! -___-

I put thread on the ASA, but I can't get my gauge off lol


----------



## Jaggedfury

If pressure drops rapidly, most likely you have leakage. Use a open wrench or pliers to loosen it. Wrap Telfon tape 5-6 times, and recheck. Majority of the time, it's installation error.


----------



## Eden Marel

Okay, I got the gauge out and re-wraped it but somehow I made it even worse and the bubbles come out faster. Now to try to get the gauge out again -.-

Also am I suppose to do something with this object? I didn't use it before, but I stuck it back in and now water is getting sucked into the clear tubing.


----------



## Jaggedfury

I'm going to use old photos to help you. 

The gauge, when you removed it and Re taped it with telfon tape, it should not leak. The Gauge will need to be Wrenched into place. If you hand tighten it, it will leak. So wrench that down and you Gauge leakage problem will be solved. Hopefully. Because there is really nothing much to that part.

Now with your Needle Valve. The photos below will explain better.

Take that nut apart, Teflon tape the Needle Valve Arm thread inside that nut. Slide that black rubber up a bit so it won't be in your way.









Slide the black rubber back down to it's original position.









Carefully, thread the Needle Valve Arm into place.


















Use a wrench and tighten it some more.









Your output co2 tubing should be installed like this.









You have to use all parts, even the open plug pin that you didn't use at first.

Re-check for leaks.


----------



## Eden Marel

Ookay well I guess I'll borrow my dad's wrench tomorrow when I bring a tank home. My output thing doesn't look like yours, but I did put the tube on the tall skinny thing first before the small fat one and water got sucked into the tubing.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Doesn' that Circle piece on the Nut comes off also? I'm not talking about the long pin.


----------



## Eden Marel

I'm not sure how to get it out


----------



## Jaggedfury

Ok. That's fine too. Now what you want to do is slip the Nut through your co2 tubing first. Then on the co2 tubing that passed through it, stick that into the copper pin all the way til it wont go no more. Now slide the Nut down, It should be a bit difficult to go in. Use a little bit of energy to push into the pin. If it's too easy, your co2 tubing is too small in size.

Once you get that Nut pushed downward all the way til it doesn't go no more. Teflon tape the thread again and Put it onto the thread and hand tighten it down. Then Wrench it down also. Test for leak.


----------



## Eden Marel

Okay, I did but I can't pull it out all the way, and now the tubing went over and the pin is completely inside the tubing now... and now it stuck, I can't pull it further and I can't push it back out


----------



## Jaggedfury

Wow. lol. You must be super strong! On that Pin, on one end it's curved. That's where the co2 tubing should of stopped. It should never go over it. If it did, it flexed the co2 tubing. If you're able to get it all out and start over, cut a bit off the tubing that flexed over the curved Pin.

I can't recall having the co2 tubing go pass that curved Pin. I do however recall it being a pain to push through the Nut and getting it able to thread onto the thread. 

You can try it like that, and see if you're able to have the Nut end thread onto the connector. If not, back to stage 1 lol.


----------



## Eden Marel

Hahaha, maybe. My family always depends on me cuz I'm the strongest outta them at least... it gets annoying. 

Yea it was a pain in the butt to pull it through and now it went over. The end is slightly bigger, but I guess as the tube got squeezed through the nut it mooshed over it.

Now to figure how to get it out, don't think I'm strong enough to pull it any further or push it back out lol


----------



## Jaggedfury

L0L! Go ahead and thread it on, see if the Nut will be close enough to thread onto it's original piece. Then check for leaks again. There should never be a leak if it's setup right. 

I will take mines apart tomorrow and try it out. I did mines 2 days ago and I remember the tubing won't fit into the Nut, so I cut it at a angle to make it look like a pointy tubing, then I stuck it in the nut and fed the rest through. Once I get it far enough, I put the copper Pin into it all the way. Then I slide the Nut through the copper pin, by pulling on the Nut and Tubing for extra help. It went in fine and I attached it on the thread and screw it in, wrench it down. No leaks.


----------



## Eden Marel

It wouldn't screw on, so I used a blade to cut the tubing that went over and my finger in the process lol. I manage to pull it even further after it and now I can screw it on. Man, my fingers really hurt now, I can predict callus gonna form haha.

I will test it after I get my hands on a wrench tomorrow... well technically later today xD


----------



## Jaggedfury

L0L, Funny. Ok let me know how it goes. Worst comes to worst I can take mines apart and show you but you already done that. It's just yours have leakage... weird. 

If I have time tomorrow, I will try to get a exact size in the co2 tubing.. that might be the case. The tubing I used, it says do not use for ice maker.. got it from Homedepot with my 1st paintball setup and I still use it now and no problem!

Take care of your injured finger.


----------



## Eden Marel

Hopefully the wrench will fix the Gauge leakage, and I put some tape on the ASA on/off screw too. The needle valve didn't leak before this, but it did have trouble holding the pressure... maybe now that I redone it, it ccan hold the 1bps steady without me having to crank it up a notch.

I got my new CO2 tubing from Noahma, it also says do not use for icemakers. I'm not sure where he got it.

Thanks I will take of my finger. I squirt plenty of Betadine on it


----------



## Clare12345

Ok is this teflon tape or not?








The home depot guy said it was but it doesn't say teflon. It says PTFE Thread Seal Tape. The tape itself is white.


----------



## chumlee

^that's what mine looks like...


----------



## Clare12345

Thank you!


----------



## Clare12345

Ok so I just put it all together. And I put teflon tape on and screwed everything in as tightly as I could by hand. I tried turning it on and no results. I submerged the whole thing in water and no bubbles coming out anywhere. I turned the on/off valve on and off and the needle valve on and off and no result. What should I be doing??


----------



## Clare12345

I've put the gauge on the on/off valve and it reads at 0. I think I've gotten an empty CO2 container.


----------



## Jaggedfury

It might sound like a "stupid" question but.. Is your PB Co2 tank bottle filled? 

When you buy PB Co2 tank it's not filled, unless state by the employee.


----------



## Noahma

Jaggedfury said:


> L0L, Funny. Ok let me know how it goes. Worst comes to worst I can take mines apart and show you but you already done that. It's just yours have leakage... weird.
> 
> If I have time tomorrow, I will try to get a exact size in the co2 tubing.. that might be the case. The tubing I used, it says do not use for ice maker.. got it from Homedepot with my 1st paintball setup and I still use it now and no problem!
> 
> Take care of your injured finger.


I passed some of the co2 tubing over to Eden, it was the same stuff you got. I still have a package of it somewhere around the house. 

Eden, if you need me to take a look at it I would be glad to


----------



## chumlee

btw, what size tubing are we using, I need to buy some from HD...


----------



## Clare12345

You know, I have absolutely no idea. I don't even know what PB means in PB CO2 tank. I thought they came filled. But I guess I will be doing that tomorrow. Now that you mention it, that did sound a little dangerous going through the mail...


----------



## Noahma

chumlee said:


> btw, what size tubing are we using, I need to buy some from HD...


Home Depot has all the stuff sized by color code. the tubing with the pink label goes with the needle valves with the pink label ect. So, that is what I got 

the part number is sveb20


----------



## chumlee

Noahma said:


> Home Depot has all the stuff sized by color code. the tubing with the pink label goes with the needle valves with the pink label ect. So, that is what I got
> 
> the part number is sveb20


Thanks a lot.


BTW PB stands for paint ball  dont worry about it once you work out all of the kinks in your system you will be very happy with it. If not, just buy one from Jaggedfury. Im sure you will have instant success with one of those.


----------



## Jaggedfury

I went to the store this morning, but didn't go to Homedepot. Wasn't able to look for the tubing size. I just know the tubing size is clear and is marked "Do not use on Ice Makers". 

If you snip a piece of it off, your standard air line tubing should fit over the co2 tubing. if not, then the co2 tubing is too small.

Not selling anymore as of Today. Pre-ordering Needle Valves from local supplier that ran out. Won't be here til this Friday. Resume sale this weekend. If anyone needs one do let me know.

Thanks
Jase


----------



## chumlee

how is your swagelock valve working?


----------



## Jaggedfury

It's working fine. Works the same as my previous Watts version. Looks a little nicer cause of the gold brass color. I'm not using it on any big tanks anymore. Using it at 1.5bps on two 2.5gallon tank. Experiencing tons of algae after I hook up the Swagelok.

Or maybe it's beacuse I'm using a Glo 24'' inch Dual 2x24watts T5HO fixture on two 2.5gallon tank. 

48 watts from T5HO bulbs on 2.5gallon tank is pushing it.. wouldn't you say? lol


----------



## chumlee

Good to hear that you finally got it being that it took mine like 4 days from ordering to my door.

I am using a similar fixture on my 29g. I would be afraid of cooking my plants/ fish with it on a 2.5 gal
Good luck though im sure you know what you're doing ( a lot more than I do I hope  ) 

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


----------



## Jaggedfury

I think it's doing fine. Been at it for a few weeks now. I'm not good at scaping stuff for looks so I just grow stuff lol.

The two 2.5 gallon. The other one I just setup 3 days ago with extra HC that I have.


----------



## accordztech

^so you did away with the valve from Lowes and home depot...


----------



## Eden Marel

Okay, I wrench EVERYTHING nice and tight, except the ASA to the Tank, I believe all the bubbles are gone, but now I'm getting some bubbles here now:


----------



## chumlee

probably your o-ring on your paintball tank


----------



## Noahma

They sell replacements cheap at the place you got your tank filled. (I cannot remember the name for the life of me.)


----------



## SgtPeppersLHC

I dislike o-rings, I've busted so many while in battle and my gun shoots like 10ft. Easy to find and replace though, but I've learned my lesson and I make sure now to always have a few extra before I go in.


----------



## ddtran46

O-rings are really cheap... I bought 100 orings for 4 bucks couple weeks ago.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Eden Marel said:


> Okay, I wrench EVERYTHING nice and tight, except the ASA to the Tank, I believe all the bubbles are gone, but now I'm getting some bubbles here now:


You're O ring needs to be replace. They tend to go out alot, replacement should be no more than $1.50. I have seen it for .80 cent. Anyways for photo illustration of the O ring we're talking about, it's the Greenish rubber ring. Yours might not be greenish.

Anyways, Just pop it off and you can purchase it at a paintball store or any sporting good stores.


----------



## Eden Marel

Ok, mine is kinda yellow/brass... but anyways how do I get it out? It's really tight and I don't have fingernails since I clip mine like there is no tomorrow.


----------



## b10n

on the asa valve, is it ok to just turn the knob(that pushes the pin down) a lil, not all the way?


----------



## SgtPeppersLHC

I would say small flathead screwdriver would do it, never hurt my paintball tank, just be careful of course.


----------



## Jaggedfury

b10n said:


> on the asa valve, is it ok to just turn the knob(that pushes the pin down) a lil, not all the way?


I would turn it all the way with just your hand. Doesn't take much to turn it all the way. Keep in mind, it has a pin itself that once you turn the knob down, it depress another pin that's on the PB co2 tank.


----------



## Eden Marel

Noahma said:


> They sell replacements cheap at the place you got your tank filled. (I cannot remember the name for the life of me.)





SgtPeppersLHC said:


> I would say small flathead screwdriver would do it, never hurt my paintball tank, just be careful of course.



Sport's Authority?

Can the guy who fills it up take it off for me without damaging? i tried using different things but I can't get the o-ring off


----------



## Jaggedfury

They will help you take it off, I'm sure if you ask them nicely.


----------



## JamesHockey

would you consider making them and selling them?i would love to buy one.


----------



## chumlee

Check the sns, jag sells them for amazingly low prices. And the best part is....they work! 

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


----------



## JamesHockey

kk kool


----------



## Eden Marel

I just got it replaced, and it is still leaking from the bottom and now the top is leaking again. This is really starting to piss me off.


----------



## sailnut

Check the threads of the ASA and the tank for burrs or debris. You might try lubricating the "O" ring with silicone lubricant.


----------



## Eden Marel

The bubble specifically comes out in this spot when I do the water test, no where else:










Also this thing fell out of my ASA:


----------



## Noahma

AHH HA!!! I think I figured it out eden. That thing is the needle that screws into the top of the ASA, so when you turn on your asa, it depresses the piece in the tank. If it was loose, it might not have gotten a tight seal, and leaked around it. The threaded part goes into the ASA first, you will need a socket that can fit around that, and in your ASA, I cannot remember the size off the top of my head. Screw it back in, and make sure it is very tight, then retry the leak test.


----------



## Eden Marel

Okay. I put it back it. I un-Tefloned the ASA knob at the top... then I screwed in the PB tank, then I turn on the ASA and the [email protected] came blasting out of the top of the ASA where the the on/off knob is


----------



## austinramirez

did you tighten the piece that fell out when you put it back in? and when you say you "un-Tefloned the ASA knob at the top" where are you putting teflon tape?


----------



## Jaggedfury

Wow, how did that managed to come off? I've seen several ASA On/Off valve, even the ones I sell, that pin never comes off. The top knob comes off, but never the pin. 

How is that black rubber steal on that pin to knob look like? Was it always leaking from the top where the knob is at? Did it just occured? 

Most of the time, it's installation error. Then faulty parts such as rubber seals and O rings. After that, its' a defective product which doesn't happens alot. 

I just examined one of my ASA on/off valve. I took off the top knob, looked through the top and bottom side of it with a cree led flashlight. I can not see how that pin to knob piece had fallen off. 

How did you put that pin to knob back together?

See the Hex shape pattern on the underside, You need to use a socket around that just like Noahma mentioned and screw it back in its place tight. I'm not sure how the underside of your ASA on/off valve looks like, but there should be a pattern for that pin to knob piece to slide through. I would advise to check that black O ring on the pin to knob piece.

Once you assemble it back, don't put it on the paintball tank yet. While holding the ASA on/off valve with your Left hand using your Thumb and Middle Finger, put your index finger into the pin touching it. With your right hand, screw in the top knob. Try to feel a pin action movement when you close the knob. Then apply force to push the inside pin with your index finger and with your right hand open it. Feel for movement to backtrack. 

If that's work, your black rubber O ring seal is leaking. Because one, co2 doesn't leak until it surpass that black rubber O ring seal. Other than that, the knob job is to only depress the pin. Leakage would be the black O ring seal on the pin to knob piece.


----------



## Eden Marel

austinramirez said:


> did you tighten the piece that fell out when you put it back in? and when you say you "un-Tefloned the ASA knob at the top" where are you putting teflon tape?


No, I just dropped it back in. This is where I put the Teflon. Pay particular attn to the gauge, and the height of the knob...











Jaggedfury said:


> Wow, how did that managed to come off? I've seen several ASA On/Off valve, even the ones I sell, that pin never comes off. The top knob comes off, but never the pin.
> 
> How is that black rubber steal on that pin to knob look like? Was it always leaking from the top where the knob is at? Did it just occured?
> 
> Most of the time, it's installation error. Then faulty parts such as rubber seals and O rings. After that, its' a defective product which doesn't happens alot.
> 
> I just examined one of my ASA on/off valve. I took off the top knob, looked through the top and bottom side of it with a cree led flashlight. I can not see how that pin to knob piece had fallen off.
> 
> How did you put that pin to knob back together?
> 
> See the Hex shape pattern on the underside, You need to use a socket around that just like Noahma mentioned and screw it back in its place tight. I'm not sure how the underside of your ASA on/off valve looks like, but there should be a pattern for that pin to knob piece to slide through. I would advise to check that black O ring on the pin to knob piece.
> 
> Once you assemble it back, don't put it on the paintball tank yet. While holding the ASA on/off valve with your Left hand using your Thumb and Middle Finger, put your index finger into the pin touching it. With your right hand, screw in the top knob. Try to feel a pin action movement when you close the knob. Then apply force to push the inside pin with your index finger and with your right hand open it. Feel for movement to backtrack.
> 
> If that's work, your black rubber O ring seal is leaking. Because one, co2 doesn't leak until it surpass that black rubber O ring seal. Other than that, the knob job is to only depress the pin. Leakage would be the black O ring seal on the pin to knob piece.


The black ring looks okay. 

It did leak once at the on/off knob, but then I Tefloned it at it was fixed. Then today I got that O-Ring replaced, did the water test again and the leak at the on/off knob appeared again. I figured it was just the Teflon tape got worn off from the turnining it off and on so I went to unscrew it all the way and that is when the pin thing fell out.

I just pushed the pin back into the ASA, I dunno if I was suppose to do anything special. I figured if it fell out that easily, it must not have needed to be twisted in so I just slide it right back in.

I'll make a video of what my ASA thing looks like...


----------



## Eden Marel

Okay here is the video of the ASA...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8Fgep2y5nM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxQMnxyDVHw


----------



## austinramirez

the piece that fell out needs to be tightened or pushed in,the black o-ring on it is a seal for a tight fit. it should not fall out easy.

and you do NOT need teflon on the top of the asa valve or where the actual paintball 
co2 tank screws in at the bottom.


----------



## keithy

eden, try this. Put the piece that dropped off back into the red ASA valve. Now that it in loosely in place, use a socket with a rachet to hold the piece that dropped off in the ASA. Hold those two pieces together. Screw in the On/Off knob as tight as you can with one hand on the other end, with the deep socket keeping the piece(the piece that dropped off) from moving, while it is still in the ASA. You should be able to put everything together. Do not use teflon tape on any parts. You should have everything in one piece, nice and tight. Test the ASA on/off valve for leaks. Hope this will solve your problem.

I am suspecting your problem with the leak is with the loose part. Because the part is loose, the black washer might not be flush against the wall of the ASA valve. Thus, CO2 escape from the washer and leaks from either the on/off knob or the connection between the ASA valve to the PB tank. That is why you're seeing leaks from the two spots that you showed.


----------



## Eden Marel

A socket with a rachet?? What is that... this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socket_wrench

I think my dad has one of those, I will go look when I go home tonight. Then I'll take off the Teflon on the ASA on/off and test again.


----------



## keithy

Eden Marel said:


> A socket with a rachet?? What is that... this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socket_wrench
> 
> I think my dad has one of those, I will go look when I go home tonight. Then I'll take off the Teflon on the ASA on/off and test again.


 
yes. That's exactly what I am talking about. But you may need to get a deep socket if the normal one does not have enough depth.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Eden Marel said:


> Okay here is the video of the ASA...
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8Fgep2y5nM
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxQMnxyDVHw


Based on your 2nd video link, it doesn't look like the inner side of the ASA on/off valve has a hex shape cylinder housing for that pin to knob piece that have fallen out. 

There's really no need to find a tool to tighten it, It might been made as a added "weight" to ease the pin itself downward when you twist the top knob on the outside of the ASA on/off valve. It just looks like it sticks in there, until you loosen entirely your outside ASA on/off valve nob, and that's when it falls downward. 

I liked to do things by feel, Like I mentioned before. Hold the ASA on/off Valve with your left hand using your thumb and middle finger holding horizontally. With your Right hand, put the pin to knob piece back in, then hold it it firmly in place with your Left Hand Index finger putting force on it. With your Right Hand again, thread on the knob on the outside onto the thread and try to feel a push motion on your left Index finger making sure the Pin to knob does work. Push force on it and twist the knob in reverse and let go when your index finger feels a motion to backtrack upward. That should be the level at how far your ASA on/off knob should be fully twisted back to. There's no need to twist the ASA on/off knob too far, there is a set point at when the manufacture have set a certain point to where the outside knob will go so far until it pushes that pin downward. Visa versa back tracking also. 

Let me know.


----------



## keithy

Jaggedfury said:


> There's really no need to find a tool to tighten it, It might been made as a added "weight" to ease the pin itself downward when you twist the top knob on the outside of the ASA on/off valve. It just looks like it sticks in there, until you loosen entirely your outside ASA on/off valve nob, and that's when it falls downward.


The socket is not to tighten anything. It is used to hold the pin piece(the piece that had fallen off) so that when you put the knob back on by screwing it in, the pin piece(the piece that had fallen off) will not rotate at the same time. Sorry I am not being clear.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Gotcha! Understand it clearly. 

If Noahma gives it a shot and it doesn't work, ship it my way and I'll fix it. If not, get one of my new ones lol


----------



## do00ber

So im finally gettin my stuff together and im about to order an on/off valve. I was going to buy the 32 degrees red one that Eden has but now that hes having problems im having second thoughts. Any suggestions on a good one to get or is that 32 degrees one okay, just eden is having unique problems?


----------



## shd17

do00ber said:


> So im finally gettin my stuff together and im about to order an on/off valve. I was going to buy the 32 degrees red one that Eden has but now that hes having problems im having second thoughts. Any suggestions on a good one to get or is that 32 degrees one okay, just eden is having unique problems?


 I have that same ASA valve and it's working fine. Just don't untwist all the way out. The problem I had was with the watts A-41 needle valve keeping constant rate. I changed to the watts A-40 needle valve and it seems to work a lot better so far.


----------



## do00ber

thanks, i appreciate the quick response.


----------



## do00ber

Btw anyone know where i can buy a cheap co2 tank.. I found a few but i feel they are still kinda overexpensive. Or maybe someone has an old one/unused that they can sell me through paypal?


----------



## Jaggedfury

When buying PB C02 Tank, make sure you look at the hydro test date. If it's passed that date, stores won't refill it for you.


----------



## chumlee

Wow, that looks great.

My setup, including leak (From loose o-ring on pball tank which Im not really worried about because I know what the problem is coming form) has been running for a couple of weeks so far and the swagelock is working great...just another update.


----------



## talontsiawd

This has to be one of the best DIY's on the site thus far. I am a bit strapped for cash, I wish I didn't buy a few things after reading this. I did go on Craigslist and have seen many people are getting rid of their equipment for dirt cheap, I am thinking this could be done for under $25, maybe less, if your are patient and don't need new things. I assume the higher end stuff people would trust who are into the hobby are pretty reliable. It looks like I will have atleast one more tank with pressurized co2.


----------



## honda237

I am getting one of the new atomizer, how can i hook up a bubble counter to this set up with the swagelok needle valve?


----------



## tinctorus

Does anyone know if the 5 lb co2 tanks have the same size threaded portions or will i need to go with the standard larger/more expensive regulator setup if I am using one of those???

I only ask because I can get the 5 lb tanks for about 40-50 dollars and at that size with my little red sea max that bottle would last me FOREVER


----------



## honda237

nevermind, i found the atomic bubble counter


----------



## Jaggedfury

tinctorus said:


> Does anyone know if the 5 lb co2 tanks have the same size threaded portions or will i need to go with the standard larger/more expensive regulator setup if I am using one of those???
> 
> I only ask because I can get the 5 lb tanks for about 40-50 dollars and at that size with my little red sea max that bottle would last me FOREVER


5 lbs Co2 tank would require you to go with standard larger/more expensive regulator setup. 

This setup paintball co2 is for using paintball tank 24oz and below. Although there are larger capacity co2 tank, much older ones that are 40oz, I do not recommend using these. The hydro date would be out of date a few years.

A fully filled 24oz Paintball co2 tank weighs in 3.5lbs.

Paintball Co2 tank comes in all sort and sizes.

They have Pre-refilled disposable 3.3oz with a Paintball thread adapter. 
They also come in Refillable 4oz, the bottle will be super short and stubby.
And then you have your 9oz, 12oz 16oz, 20oz, 24oz and your older ones that comes in 30oz and 40oz as well.


----------



## Bimmer

I had the perfect dual valve deluxe regulator w/electronic solenoid just like the one used in the beginning of this thread on Ebay and I knew I wasn't going to be at the computer and Auction Snipe failed me and said I didn't have the right pw. It went for $70! Grrrrrr! So I'm still looking for this apparatus to complete my system. Are there any equivalent options available? Again I'm looking at around the $70 price tag.
Thanks!


----------



## Jaggedfury

In regards to your "wants". If you want a electric solenoid to work with this setup, I suggest you browse back 30 or so odd pages and look for a guy from Canada that I believed have hooked up a solenoid to it. Haven't gotten any update to whether it's still functional or not. I myself don't have any knowledge as to rigging a Solenoid to work with this setup. 

On the other hand, if you drop the Solenoid part I know for sure you can build this system under $70 dollars.


----------



## Noahma

Bimmer said:


> I had the perfect dual valve deluxe regulator w/electronic solenoid just like the one used in the beginning of this thread on Ebay and I knew I wasn't going to be at the computer and Auction Snipe failed me and said I didn't have the right pw. It went for $70! Grrrrrr! So I'm still looking for this apparatus to complete my system. Are there any equivalent options available? Again I'm looking at around the $70 price tag.
> Thanks!


I can get you close to that price, I am running two systems, the DIY one with the Watts needle valve on my 10 gal. (works perfectly) and the below link on my 36 gal. Which works perfectly as well. 

http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/4531/product.web


----------



## zz_its_me

*Update*

Just an update on my setup. I'm down to a little less that 100psi on my guage. I started with the Swagelok valve on 12/11 and had played with the watts valve for a week or so before that, so I guess a little over a month at 1b every 1.5 sec into a 46g tank. 

I'll be getting my tank filled again on 1/15/11 along with a spare tank and keep stats starting then. I did have to readjust my valve when the pressure went below 400psi and then again at 200psi, but that was no big deal. 

EDIT: 20oz CO2 tanks by the way

Plant growth has been great, much better than I ever saw with the diy yeast setup. Also I have "ALOT LESS ALGAE" 

ZZ


----------



## Jaggedfury

zz_its_me said:


> Just an update on my setup. I'm down to a little less that 100psi on my guage. I started with the Swagelok valve on 12/11 and had played with the watts valve for a week or so before that, so I guess a little over a month at 1b every 1.5 sec into a 46g tank.
> 
> I'll be getting my tank filled again on 1/15/11 along with a spare tank and keep stats starting then. I did have to readjust my valve when the pressure went below 400psi and then again at 200psi, but that was no big deal.
> 
> EDIT: 20oz CO2 tanks by the way
> 
> Plant growth has been great, much better than I ever saw with the diy yeast setup. Also I have "ALOT LESS ALGAE"
> 
> ZZ


If you're a first timer to this PB co2 setup, expect to get less than half a bottle of your filled PB co2 tank the first time you start this. This is due to installation error, defective seals, and removing the asa on/off valve a few times.

Once you get it down, 2nd time refill will give you full co2 use. Unless you have a seal go bad and leak co2. Other than that, it will go smooth. Once set right, I prefer if you don't mess with it. Don't touch it, don't move it, dont do nothing but just look at it from time to time.

PB co2 tank = SUPER DUPER PEARLING.
DIY co2 yeast bottle = NONE OR POOR PEARLING.

:bounce::icon_mrgr


----------



## bustah8

Jaggedfury said:


> crossCANADA, yours looks awesome. Wish My Swagelok Needle Valve comes in Silver lol. We're stuck with the brass gold color.


You can get that same valve ebay about $15 i believe the item # is ss-ovm2-bkb. same valve, same threading, just 316 stainless. I'm not sure about "mixing" brass and stainless on the same application, I've heard that could lead to trouble.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Mines working fine. No need anymore. Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## Bimmer

Noahma said:


> I can get you close to that price, I am running two systems, the DIY one with the Watts needle valve on my 10 gal. (works perfectly) and the below link on my 36 gal. Which works perfectly as well.
> 
> http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/4531/product.web


You mean the whole setup or just the dual regulator? I've got a 24-oz tank coming in the next couple of days and the same for the ****** Swagelok 1/8" Brass Needle Valve B-OVM2-BKB. This will bue used on a 72-gallon bowfront. Let me know!


----------



## Noahma

Bimmer said:


> You mean the whole setup or just the dual regulator? I've got a 24-oz tank coming in the next couple of days and the same for the ****** Swagelok 1/8" Brass Needle Valve B-OVM2-BKB. This will bue used on a 72-gallon bowfront. Let me know!


the link I provided comes with the solenoid, needle valve, regulator all for a paintball tank. I am using it on my 36 gal with great results. 
I am not sure where you could get just the regulator for a paintball system.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Noahma said:


> the link I provided comes with the solenoid, needle valve, regulator all for a paintball tank. I am using it on my 36 gal with great results.
> I am not sure where you could get just the regulator for a paintball system.


Did you ever get revenge on the flying monkeys that stole your icon? lol


----------



## Noahma

Jaggedfury said:


> Did you ever get revenge on the flying monkeys that stole your icon? lol


lol, your now the second person in 6 mo. that has said something about it. 

The monkey is still on the loose :angryfire


----------



## Jaggedfury

Haha, I just noticed your icon for the first time lol. 

So how is that solenoid working? I know how solenoid works, but on the technical side. Is there a certain pressure that needs to be pushed at it for it to open up/close up?


----------



## Noahma

I am not sure lol, it is working GREAT. The regulator is preset at a pressure of 25-30psi. So if there is a min. pressure to get the gas to press through, that may be it.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Oh, Cool. No need to know. It's all good. I don't use it so wouldn't care lol


----------



## Noahma

Jaggedfury said:


> Oh, Cool. No need to know. It's all good. I don't use it so wouldn't care lol


Is it an item that may fit in line with the ASA and needle valve on the DIY system? I had thought about trying to fit one on my 10g DIY ASA system. 

The numbers on the Valve are 

CS solenoid (mfg?)
SV-2115
pipe: 1/8" pt
Pressure 0-10 kg/cm2

I found this info when looking at the part
http://www.cs-fluidpower.com/pdf/p22.pdf


----------



## Jaggedfury

I took a look at high resolution of that Solenoid, as far as fitment and fittings, it'll fit fine. Not sure as to performance wise. It needs to actually be fitted and tested to ensure that it does function with the Paintball Co2 setup. Only one way to tell, is if someone actually gets it and try it out.  

But that will fit and make it look nice. Again, just not sure how it performs.


----------



## Noahma

I might give it a try at some point in time, money is short right now lol, Soo...... if anyone else wants to before I can lol. Would be nice to have an extra solenoid in case this one fails at some point in the future lol


----------



## Jaggedfury

I could test that down the line, just not right now. I dont have any major big tanks to use it on. My only tanks up and running right now are two 2.5 gallon tanks lol. If no one trys that, I could try it in the summer or fall. In spring I'll be moving into new house so will be super busy loading and decoration stuff. But if anyone wants to go ahead and try this out, go for it.


----------



## Jaggedfury

I might rig up my paintball co2 tank to a 2 system unit. I will use two 24oz co2 tank, which will be in a "Y" formation. lol I will use 2 Needle Valves and lots of connectors and fittings. That's one of my setups that I want to try and rig up.


----------



## Noahma

Jaggedfury said:


> I might rig up my paintball co2 tank to a 2 system unit. I will use two 24oz co2 tank, which will be in a "Y" formation. lol I will use 2 Needle Valves and lots of connectors and fittings. That's one of my setups that I want to try and rig up.


This one is going to have me watching closely, I had thought of doing just this type of setup lol


----------



## Jaggedfury

Haha, go for it. I do not take any responsibility if you attempt it. Be careful and yes wear safety goggles. I will have one setup soon. All you need is some extender connectors, 90degree angle bi-threaded 1/8'' connectors and 1 Female 1/8'' x 3 thread connectors 

I can picture it already lol. If you do have one up before me, post it! I'd be so jealous. Haha Be safe though!


----------



## Noahma

You will probably have one up before me lol, I have a bit to go, I have to pay down my "fish tank" budget or my wife will kill me.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Haha Oh wow. Buy her a Nemo Fish, she'll forgive you.


----------



## Noahma

lol, she would look at the price of all the equipment needed to keep the "nemo" fish alive and flip out! lol She has her Astronomy budget, but darn her, she keeps within the monthly limit lol


----------



## Jaggedfury

L0L! I wouldn't know, no wifey yet. Yes, even though I'm Asian.. I don't have 12 wives yet. One day I will, a wife for every month. hehe lol


----------



## Eden Marel

Noahma said:


> lol, she would look at the price of all the equipment needed to keep the "nemo" fish alive and flip out! lol She has her Astronomy budget, but darn her, she keeps within the monthly limit lol


Well as an exceptionally Math savvy person, of course she would be really good in keeping within budget  At least you aren't thinking of keeping "Nemo" in a bowl, just like everyone else who ran and bought a "Nemo" after the movie came out.



Jaggedfury said:


> L0L! I wouldn't know, no wifey yet. Yes, even though I'm Asian.. I don't have 12 wives yet. One day I will, a wife for every month. hehe lol


What the.....


----------



## Haberdasher

Hi all. I've been reading the thread getting ready to set up a system. What a great DIY! Does anyone know what the pressure is on the output side of the needle valve? Seems like it might be able to go as high as the bottle pressure since there isn't a regulator, but I'm not sure. I'm thinking of using this diffuser:

http://www.greenleafaquariums.com/co2-diffusers/atomic-inline-diffuser-12.html

But it says that it requires +30psi input pressure so I'm not sure if it'll work.

Thanks,
-Dave


----------



## Jaggedfury

Not sure yet, I don't think anyone have ran that device yet with the PB co2 tank setup. Majority of the people and I run it through a ceramic glass diffuser, powerhead, or a hang on filter. You can give it a shot and let us know. Make sure your co2 tubing falls well between 12mm to 16mm size to fit the Needle Valve output nipple/compression sleeve, then make sure you order the right device from that site.


----------



## Jaggedfury

I'm going to go purchase a 4oz PB co2 tank, and try it out. I like the stubby look of it. I'm not really a co2 freak, and the plants I grow don't need tons and tons of co2. I'll try to find a 4oz PB co2 tank tomorrow. If I'm able to find one, I'll post it up! I will transfer my Swagelok Needle Valve setup onto the 4oz PB co2 tank.


----------



## waterxnge

*leak on tank*

I have a leak at on the 20 oz tank itself. About 1 or 2 bubbles a second are coming out of the circled area below where this nut is screwed into the neck of the cylinder. It's not something I've touched before nor do I know if it's safe to do so or not. Can I just tighten this nut more or do I just have a bum cylinder (which will be my third from Amazon)?


----------



## coldmantis

that is the burst disk, I wouldn't touch that if I were you, it might come out more and co2 gas hit you in the face, take it to a paintball shop and have it replaced, but it might cost almost the same as getting a new tank, unless they install it for free for you.


jke000 said:


> I have a leak at on the 20 oz tank itself. About 1 or 2 bubbles a second are coming out of the circled area below where this nut is screwed into the neck of the cylinder. It's not something I've touched before nor do I know if it's safe to do so or not. Can I just tighten this nut more or do I just have a bum cylinder (which will be my third from Amazon)?


----------



## Jaggedfury

Yes, that is the Burst Valve. DO NOT TOUCH THAT. Let a professional do it when you refill it. You can seriously hurt yourself even death if there is any co2 gas inside the bottle. 

Bring it to a refill shop, tell them your Burst Valve needs replacing, and they'll empty out the tank, charge you for the Burst Valve and Refill of your tank again. You really can't do it yourself unless you have your own fill station. The Burst Valve is tighten to a certain point in the thread hole. Once tighten far enough, the employee will fill the co2 tank with co2 gas and see if there's any leak. This is the proper way to do this. If there is a leak, he/she will need to empty out the PB tank again, and tighten it more. Although if you tighten it too tight, it will weaken the Burst Valve and cause it to leak also. Not something for DIY hobbiest to do. So take it in for inspection and replacement.


----------



## karatekid14

Could I attach a bubble counter to it? Sorry for the stupid question I am just begging .


----------



## Jaggedfury

Yes you can. As long as the bubble counter fits your co2 tubing size.


----------



## whizzle

xpistalpetex said:


> i too have a paintball co2 injection.
> except i am not using an on/off just standard asa(air source adapter).
> homedepot needle valve, using mini o rings instead of teflon to push the hose line part against the body itself to create a seal. it works -.-b


Has anyone else done this with just a standard asa and not the on/off one? Just wondering because I have an asa from when I used to play paintball but it's not an on/off one. Thanks for any help and for the thread too.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Regular ASA valve works also. The only different is that you won't have the option to open the valve or close it, without twisting on ASA Valve fully off or fully on. Plus it's a bit dangerous if you leave your Needle Valve open while twisting on the ASA Valve. 

If you forget to fully close your Needle Valve while twisting on your ASA Valve, expect to have a large amount of co2 gas just shoot out like crazy. That's the only different from the ASA Valve and ASA On/Off Valve.

If you don't forget stuff easily, then go for it. It will work 100%.


----------



## whizzle

Cool that's what I thought but I just wanted to double check. Thanks for the quick reply.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Yepp, No problem. Better to be safe than sorry right. lol


----------



## Eden Marel

Well the socket thing didn't help. I don't even need to do the water test cuz I can hear the gas escaping from the top. But I did the water test anyways and its comes out like a mad man from the top of the ASA, there are still a very slow forming bubble at the bottom, I guess it is up to Noahma now...


----------



## whizzle

Definitely lol I'll probably just end up putting a post it on my tank reminding me to turn the needle valve off. All I have to do now is get my tank filled cuz the paintball shop was closed today.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Eden Marel said:


> Well the socket thing didn't help. I don't even need to do the water test cuz I can hear the gas escaping from the top. But I did the water test anyways and its comes out like a mad man from the top of the ASA, there are still a very slow forming bubble at the bottom, I guess it is up to Noahma now...


That sucks! I just hope your ASA On/Off valve doesn't become bad due to that pin to knob piece fell off. I did some research base on what you experienced and found out there are actually "Rebuild Kits" for your problem. I'm not certain if your ASA On/Off valve is bad due to the pin to knob falling off. But there is "Rebuild Kits" for it.

The "Rebuild Kits" comes with a exact hex time ordeal pin to knob piece like yours and the upper "O' ring seal that is on it.

Personally, I don't think it's worth "Rebuilding" it. 

If Noahma can't get it to work, I'd go with a different ASA On/Off Valve just to save you all the headaches.



whizzle said:


> Definitely lol I'll probably just end up putting a post it on my tank reminding me to turn the needle valve off. All I have to do now is get my tank filled cuz the paintball shop was closed today.


L0L, there you go. Post-it up. Be safe.


----------



## ddtran46

Jaggedfury said:


> If you forget to fully close your Needle Valve while twisting on your ASA Valve, expect to have a large amount of co2 gas just shoot out like crazy.


I made this mistake last week :icon_roll


----------



## do00ber

Anyone have a setup with the a-40 needle valve..the straight one? If so can you take a picture or two and show me the setup


----------



## Jaggedfury

Someone actually is using the A-40 Needle Valve from Watts. I recalled him mentioning he has no problem with it within the thread here. I have seen the A-40 myself, It will work. Looks almost exactly like the A-41. Browse back 30 odd pages, and you'll find it lol


----------



## sailnut

Eden Marel said:


> Well the socket thing didn't help. I don't even need to do the water test cuz I can hear the gas escaping from the top. But I did the water test anyways and its comes out like a mad man from the top of the ASA, there are still a very slow forming bubble at the bottom, I guess it is up to Noahma now...


I had a look at your YouTube clip after watching you assemble the device it seems to me that the "O" ring does not seal properly. The assembly is just dropping into the cylinder bore. It should definitively should not fit into the well so easily. 

If the ring which serves as a seal does not fit properly CO2 will bypass it and leak out the stem of the on/off twist knob.


----------



## Eden Marel

sailnut said:


> I had a look at your YouTube clip after watching you assemble the device it seems to me that the "O" ring does not seal properly. The assembly is just dropping into the cylinder bore. It should definitively should not fit into the well so easily.
> 
> If the ring which serves as a seal does not fit properly CO2 will bypass it and leak out the stem of the on/off twist knob.



The black ring? How do I get that one replaced?


----------



## Jaggedfury

Use a Pick to get it off or a tiny micro flat head screw driver.


----------



## karatekid14

could this work for the valve?


----------



## Jaggedfury

That looks like a Paintball Co2 Tank Female Out put thread. 

If you're looking for a ASA On/Off Valve, that is not a On/Off Valve. I'm not sure what the technically name of that is, but I do know how it's used and it won't work as a ASA On/Off Valve.


----------



## karatekid14

Is there any valves cheaper than $30 because that is the cheapest I've found. Thanks for replying so fast.


----------



## Jaggedfury

There are plenty. I sent you a Private Message.


----------



## whizzle

Thanks jaggedfury for this thread. I got everything hooked up today and it works perfectly. I'm running around 3bps so ill let everyone know how long it lasts. :icon_bigg


----------



## Jaggedfury

Yepp, No problem. Post picture of your setup! Happy plants pearling lol


----------



## whizzle

Here ya go roud: the diffuser is a bamboo chopstick. I got the idea from Geniusdudekiran. Please excuse the crappy cell phone piks and my water really isnt that cloudy lol


----------



## Jaggedfury

Nice!! I'm going to have to try that chopstick method. Looks like it works pretty good from the bubbles I see coming out of the chopstick. Learn something new everyday! Thanks for the photos!


----------



## crossCANADA

karatekid14 said:


> could this work for the valve?


Yes that is the same thing im using... i have never turned the asa valve on the top but you would still need the asa


----------



## Jaggedfury

To me it looks like an extra connector extender piece. Since the PB co2 tank itself already has the Male thread that the ASA On/Off valve uses. Take note of the extra Burst Valve, it looks like a reducer type part or an extra connector extender piece that's really not needed. But it if works, kudos to you.


----------



## crossCANADA

Yea the guy at the paintaball store told me that someone could use this if their asa didnt come with the on/off valve and it wouldsave on blowing o-rings.. i got it because my asa only had one spot the needle valve and i wanted to also have the gauge, but it is more things to make sure dont leak


----------



## Jaggedfury

Cool, I understand what your saying. Although there are other ways to upon hooking up Gauge on the same path of your Needle Valve with a Female 1/8'' Tee connector, but I get what you're saying.


----------



## whizzle

Jaggedfury said:


> Nice!! I'm going to have to try that chopstick method. Looks like it works pretty good from the bubbles I see coming out of the chopstick. Learn something new everyday! Thanks for the photos!


Not a problem. And the chopstick works great. Best of all its free if you like chinese food lol. Cant get better than that! :icon_lol:


----------



## coldmantis

so after waiting for about 6 weeks or more I finally got my swagelok valve, I thought to myself this is worth the wait, after this I can just set it and forget it, well.... it's worst then the watts. at least the watts floats after a couple of hours or days, this floats in minutes. I'm using my cell phone and a timer program to time it to the miliseconds, it's not leaking checked with water, the asa valve is new less then 2 weeks old, I have 2 pb tanks, and gone threw 4 asa adapters and at least 8 watts valves. just wanted to know how people set this up. do you turn the knob all the way loose then tighten the nut, or do you closed the knob all the way and then tighten the nut, of course the arrow on the swagelok is pointing away from the asa adaper, I'm lost here, all this waiting for more trouble. I'm trying to achieve 1bubble per 3secs is that not possible with swagelock?


----------



## Jaggedfury

whizzle said:


> Not a problem. And the chopstick works great. Best of all its free if you like chinese food lol. Cant get better than that! :icon_lol:


I would like to try this chopstick method out.. 

The sad thing is.... I'm Asian but I don't use chopstick.. lol Very sad.

When going out to eat "Rice noodles" at any Asian base Restaurants, I always have to ask the waiter/waitress to bring me a fork! :biggrin:

Not one single chopstick reside in my house.

Now the hard part is to go to the stores and buy 1 chopstick pair.. lol Not an entire 100 packs. I'll try it out this coming weekend.


----------



## Jaggedfury

coldmantis said:


> so after waiting for about 6 weeks or more I finally got my swagelok valve, I thought to myself this is worth the wait, after this I can just set it and forget it, well.... it's worst then the watts. at least the watts floats after a couple of hours or days, this floats in minutes. I'm using my cell phone and a timer program to time it to the miliseconds, it's not leaking checked with water, the asa valve is new less then 2 weeks old, I have 2 pb tanks, and gone threw 4 asa adapters and at least 8 watts valves. just wanted to know how people set this up. do you turn the knob all the way loose then tighten the nut, or do you closed the knob all the way and then tighten the nut, of course the arrow on the swagelok is pointing away from the asa adaper, I'm lost here, all this waiting for more trouble. I'm trying to achieve 1bubble per 3secs is that not possible with swagelock?


I'll take you from the beginning to end with steps.

-Paintball co2 tank fully filled
-Make sure Swagelok Needle Valve is fully closed off
-Make sure ASA On/Off Knob is fully closed (Twist counter clockwise, knob should go upward)
-Twist on the ASA On/Off Valve onto the Paintball Co2 Tank's Thread.
-Open (Twist clockwise, knob should go downward) the Knob on the ASA On/Off Valve to depress valve in to Paintball Co2 Tank's Valve pin.
-Fine tune/adjust your Swagelok Needle Valve by opening it.

That's pretty much it. You can't really go wrong... since you have the Swagelok Needle Valve pointing the right way.


----------



## chumlee

And jag I remember you telling me that teflon tape on the adjuster/needle of the swagelocks can cause problems...I use mine with no tape on that portion. 

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


----------



## Jaggedfury

I assumed he didn't tape that. That was actually said by someone that have confirmed that it caused unsteady pressure with the Swagelok Needle Valve if teflon tape was used there. I repeated that a few times throughout the thread, I actually didn't find out myself. But on mines, I don't use teflon tape on the adjuster/needle of the Swagelok Needle Valve. I assumed as current as this thread goes down the pages, people have read the thread and is up to date on what procedures to follow, installation steps and diagnosing loss of pressure whether it's a leak or faulty device.


----------



## coldmantis

I did not tape the adjuster part, I was looking some pages back at the swagelok I noticed that the nut is tighten upwards towards the handle but I was tightening downwards away from the handle, I'm going to give that a shot, the last time I left it was like 30 minutes ago to take a shower, when I left it was 1 bubble per 1.8secs now it's 1 bubble per 3.2secs...... but I will try the nut upwards towards the adjuster and see how it goes.


----------



## coldmantis

shame didn't work, left it at 1 bubble per 2.1secs last night woke up today checked it 1 bubble per 3.8 secs.....


----------



## Jaggedfury

Maybe someone with the Swagelok Needle Valve can chime in. There's a dozen or so folks that are using the Swagelok Needle Valve. It's pretty straight forward setup.


----------



## chumlee

The only problem I had was making sure the arrow was the right way. Maybe you can check again and make sure that the arrow is pointing in the direction of the flow. You said that it was but it doesn't hurt to check again. 

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


----------



## coldmantis

trust me that's the first thing I checked, just so no one is confused about the nut I'm talking about, there is 2 nuts 1 big one below the handle and a skinny one below the big one, I was only tightening the skinny one, I just tried taking the adjuster out, put it back in all the way then tightening the big nut this time until it was tight, then I tighten the skinny nut upwards towards the big nut, left my house around 1.5 hours ago and set it to 1 bubble per 2.3 secs, i will see tonight when I get home from work if that did the trick or not.


----------



## chumlee

the rule of thumb which most people on here used was hand tightening and then another 1/4 turn (90 degrees). If I remember correctly i tightened all of the nuts.


----------



## Jaggedfury

I know what you're talking about, I left that nut going towards the top of the Swagelok Needle Valve. Works fine for me. 

Double check everything and if it still looses pressure, I would remove the Needle Valve and Disassemble the unit and examine piece by piece. I haven't dont this yet so I'm not sure if it has "O" ring washer or not. Something is obviously wrong if it doesn't hold steady pressure.


----------



## coldmantis

Jaggedfury said:


> I know what you're talking about, I left that nut going towards the top of the Swagelok Needle Valve. Works fine for me.
> 
> Double check everything and if it still looses pressure, I would remove the Needle Valve and Disassemble the unit and examine piece by piece. I haven't dont this yet so I'm not sure if it has "O" ring washer or not. Something is obviously wrong if it doesn't hold steady pressure.


I took apart the needle valve the last time, it's not like the watts, it uses what I believe to me a 2 piece metal washers to seal, and a plastic I think it looked white or grey where the big nut screws in.


----------



## coldmantis

just called gf at home, it's now 1 bubble per 3 secs.....


----------



## Jaggedfury

Wow, that's a unsteady pressure drop. From 2.3bps to 1.3bps. Definitely a problem, just not sure what is causing it. Are you super sure, that you're not leaking any co2 on the external parts? 

Did you submerse the entire setup while it's running into a bucket of water? Preferably a 10gallon tank so you can visually see the leak? I don't want to say at a part on the Swagelok Needle Valve is defective.. let's not say that yet.


----------



## coldmantis

I dont' submerse the whole setup, I have a bucket with 3 gallons of water that I age for water changes, and I just basily dip half the tank in so that it's vertical and if I don't see any bubbles coming out except from the tubing then I consider it not leaking. I'm going to try this on another tank, because this 24oz I been using since oct 31 and I lost a lot of gas playing around with this setup, it might be almost time for a change.


----------



## coldmantis

just called the gf again hoping that it steady out at 1 per 3 secs, nope 1b per 7secs now....., thats officially worst then the watts, with watts it would take like over a month before it slows down to 1b per 7secs from 1b per 2secs.


----------



## coldmantis

so I came home and checked myself to see if it's 1 bubble per 7secs, my gf doesn't know how to count or don't care about my hobby, it's still at 1 bubble per 3.8sec. Did a leak test again and it's leaking from the knob had to really tighten the nut, set it back to 1 bubble per 2.3sec lets see what will happen in the next couple of hours.


----------



## Jaggedfury

L0L, I'm going to reframe myself from cracking female jokes  

Cool, Keep me updated.


----------



## coldmantis

well I just checked again, it seems to be floating again so I check for leaks and it's leaking from the same place again, took it apart and retightened it, will check tomorrow to see it starts to leak from the same place again.


----------



## problemman

How long will a 12 oz last on a20 high at 3 bps?


----------



## Jaggedfury

Not long. 1.5 month to close to 2 months if you're lucky.

20 oz at 3 bps - 2-3 months
24 oz at 3 bps - 3-4 months

20 oz at 1bps - 4-5 months
24 oz at 1bps - 5-6 months


----------



## problemman

That's not bad...i can handle that


----------



## Jaggedfury

Yepp, Way better than Excel. I rather spend less than $5 dollars per 5-6 months(depending on bps) to refill tank than to purchase Excel bottles. They can get pricey in the long run bottles after bottles especially for large tanks.


----------



## problemman

I hear ya there.is 8 bucks each here


----------



## Jaggedfury

Here's my setup a few weeks ago. It's at 800 psi at the moment. Drop 50 psi 3 weeks of use. Not bad at all. Everything is working well and no problem. *Do it right the first time, tighten everything down, double check/triple check all your connections and you won't have no problem!*

Mines is a Brand New Paintball co2 tank, with Hydro date of 09/2015.
New Paintball Cylinder Tank, New Valve Pin, New "O" Ring, New 3K Burst Disc, New ASA On/Off thread with 1 Threaded Hole. New Gauge custom fitted, New Swagelok Needle Valve and Used Ceramic Diffuser.

I decide not to us a Check Valve, I place my Paintball Tank higher than my planted tank itself. Teflon tape is used everywhere there's thread exception of the Paintball Tank's Pin Valve thread, and the on the Swagelok Needle Valve Knob Nut.

Everything is new exception of my Glass Ceramic Diffuser which is used but still does a awesome job as if it was new! 

*New Tank with 5 year Hydro Date*









*Assembly of Parts*









*Attached to New Paintball Co2 Tank*









*ASA On/Off Valve closed. Gauge confirm pressure.*









= )

First time using the Swagelok Needle Valve, but hopefully it works at my Watts did in the past. I'm using this in a Nano tank at 1bps. As long as I'm getting 3-5 months out of it(Which I know it will), It's all worth it.

*My total cost for this unit being NEW is

- New 20z Paintball Cylinder Tank, New Pin Valve, New Burst disc, New "O" Ring, Fully filled - $20.80
- New ASA On/Off Valve with 1 Thread - $8
- New Gauge $5
- Teflon Tape .80 cent
- Watts A-704 LF Female Pipe Tee 1/8'' 3 Ports - $5.83
- Watts A-715 LF Brass Pipe 1/8'' Close $3.24
- Watts A-15LF Tube to FIP Adapter 1/4''x1/8'' $2.06
- New Swagelok Needle Valve B-OVM2-BKB $11.00
- Co2 Tubing 24'' $2.16
- Used Ceramic Diffuser with Suction Cup - Free

Total cost $58.89

Running in my tank at 1 bps.









The ease of having this setup versus DIY Co2 Yeast Bottle Fermentation ..... PRICELESS 
*


----------



## do00ber

Whats an ideal bps to have..I have a 20L tank with medium lighting..


----------



## Jaggedfury

Depends on plants. If you have majority of medium light plants that needs medium light, I would go with 2-3bps. If you have more of the demanding high light plants, I'd go 4-6 bps. But again, get a drop checker to see how much co2 you have in the water. Might gasped your fish with 3-6bps if left on 24/7. I leave mines on 24/7 so you might want to think about that.

In my signature is a 20gallon long tank, It all have low light plants and I did 1bps from my Paintball setup. Grew fine and healthy. Last 4-5 months on a 24oz Paintball Co2 tank at 1bps before refill.


----------



## boredouttahell

Do you think the watts needle valve will work fine? I bought it for 5 bucks at OSH and I was wondering if it would be better to return it and get the swagelok.


----------



## Jaggedfury

I can say it works fine, I myself had no problem and I had 3 of these Watts-A41 LF used.

It's all up to you, you can buy it, try it and see how it goes. I still dont' know why it doesn't hold steady pressure for others. Keep in mind, there are folks on here using the Watts A-41 and A-40 still. 

Although, there are other Needle Valves that look similar to the Watts Needle Valve, Not all of them are the same. Ace, OSH, Independent Plumbing stores and local hardware supply stores sell all sorts of Needle Valve that will work as much as the Swagelok or Watts. 

Just wanted to let you know that there are other options out there as well.

But if you don't feel comfortable using the Watts, then opt for the Swagelok Needle Valve.


----------



## boredouttahell

Thanks for the quick reply jagged, I just double checked the the valve I have, it is the watts A-41 LF. Since it worked for you, I'm prolly just going to try this out. If not I could always upgrade.


----------



## Jaggedfury

No problem, if it doesn't work out you can return it for refund. Not a big deal.


----------



## do00ber

Just got my needle valve today, gonna tape it up and attach it to my ASA, i have a quick question before i finally set everything up. Is turning off the co2 every night a bad idea.. I mean im usually home so turning it on in the morning wouldnt be a problem but will it take time to build pressure and penetrate my diffuser? Im prob not gonna be able to get a drop checker for a while and im planning on keeping a 2bps rate. If i keep it at 2bps and it doesnt asphyxiate my fish at night then i have no problem leaving it on at 24/7.


----------



## coldmantis

just an update, so far after fixing the leak from the knob due to the oring not sealing properly, I'm still getting floating, I even went out today and bought a new 24oz and filled it up so far not looking so good still floating, I'm thinking it could just be I got a bad swagelok, I ordered 2 more, I will see if the one I got was a bad one or not, I'm starting to think it is.


----------



## aaronbrown

i was looking into doing this for my 75 but would just one of these be enough for a 75 or do you think it would be better to have two one at each end of the tank


----------



## Jaggedfury

do00ber said:


> Just got my needle valve today, gonna tape it up and attach it to my ASA, i have a quick question before i finally set everything up. Is turning off the co2 every night a bad idea.. I mean im usually home so turning it on in the morning wouldnt be a problem but will it take time to build pressure and penetrate my diffuser? Im prob not gonna be able to get a drop checker for a while and im planning on keeping a 2bps rate. If i keep it at 2bps and it doesnt asphyxiate my fish at night then i have no problem leaving it on at 24/7.


You can turn it off when you want and re-open it when you need it. Doesn't matter. It just makes it more labor to turn it on and off. I would highly use a drop checker unless you're experienced in telling apart when your fish is gasping for air. If there's too much co2 present in the tank, your fish will literally air their heads upward towards the top of the water gasping for air. At 2bps, it can do this depending on tank size. It's all up to you to turn it off or not. I do not see how this is a bad idea. Give it a try.



coldmantis said:


> just an update, so far after fixing the leak from the knob due to the oring not sealing properly, I'm still getting floating, I even went out today and bought a new 24oz and filled it up so far not looking so good still floating, I'm thinking it could just be I got a bad swagelok, I ordered 2 more, I will see if the one I got was a bad one or not, I'm starting to think it is.


Swagalok Needle Valve going bad? That'll be a first for me, if so do let me know. A bunch of use are using Swagelok Needle Valve and it's working fine.



aaronbrown said:


> i was looking into doing this for my 75 but would just one of these be enough for a 75 or do you think it would be better to have two one at each end of the tank


For a 75 gallon tank, Depending on how heavily planted it is I would use two of these. They dont necessarily need to be 24 oz tank on both side.. but I would use 20 oz or 24 oz on this big setup. Or you can always go with one 24 oz tank and try that out at whatever bps you want to keep your plants satisfied then if you need more, just rig up a 2nd Paintball tank to it.


----------



## coldmantis

yes I know, what bad luck I have, waited 6 weeks because usps messed up and got a bad one, out of desperation I tried one last thing, which is to flip the nv around so now the arrow is pointing at the asa adapter not away from it, so far it's been working, I think going on 2 hours with just a 2-3 milisecond float lets hope tomorrow it stays the same.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Yepp, I order my Swagelok NV a week before Xmas.. it got lost somehow in shipping and I requested another one to be sent. Didn't get it for another 2 weeks. But mines is working fine!

Get your to work, you'll love it.


----------



## Bimmer

Jaggedfury said:


> For a 75 gallon tank, Depending on how heavily planted it is I would use two of these. They dont necessarily need to be 24 oz tank on both side.. but I would use 20 oz or 24 oz on this big setup. Or you can always go with one 24 oz tank and try that out at whatever bps you want to keep your plants satisfied then if you need more, just rig up a 2nd Paintball tank to it.


Please give me the justification of running 2 tanks. Is it the dispersement you're trying to achieve? If so, why not just split the hose so that it supplies 2 diffusers, one at each end of the large tank? Maybe it's just me but I'd rather fill my tank once a month if necessary rather than fork out $25-$30 for a second tank. I'm asking because I want to do this in my 72-gallon bowfront. We're moving the middle of February and so I'm holding off until then. All I'm needing at this point is the adapter coming off the ASA, the coupler at the opposite end and a diffuser.


----------



## Jaggedfury

I wasn't under the assumption that you wanted to refill every month. If so by all means go with 1 setup. 

The only reason I stated two setup is to avoid the above statement that I stated. It was meant to save you from going to get refill monthly. 75 gallon is a huge tank to go with just one setup, but to each of his own opinions. 

I myself wouldn't want to go to get it refill every month or bi monthly or even one time in 3 month. 4-6 moths, I can work with that.

Try it out with one Paintball Co2 tank. I'm not sure how many bps you're going to be using. If you realize that you will need a bigger setup or a 2nd setup, then get it down the line. I"m assuming if you're going to get it refill monthly, you'll have access locally to the parts to be bought. So go with one Paintball Co2 tank first and try it.

The closest refill for me is a good 22 miles from me. Alot of PB stores closed down. Our Wal-mart and such don't refill tank. Nor does our fire department station.


----------



## Bimmer

I'm moving the middle of next month but only about 5 miles away. Right now the PB shop is about 2 minutes away so it's pretty convenient. Same with the hardware stores. Lowe's and Home Depot are all close. In fact EVERYTHING is within 6 or 7 miles max. Ok, that out of the way, what about the dispersing of the CO2? In a tank that size SHOULD I be considering two diffusers?


----------



## Jaggedfury

Diffusing the co2 is all up to you. The size of your tank has nothing to do with how you're dispersing co2. 

-You can use a Ceramic Glass Diffuser, a pretty large one for that size tank. Not no Nano glass diffuser. I would go with at least a 1-2 inch in diameter disc. 
-You can get a Co2 Atomizer and hook it up to your Canister Filter.
-You can run it into a power head with a air nipple inlet. 
-You can run it straight into a hang on filter
-You can run it through a reactor

1 Diffuser will be good enough, I've seen large thanks with 1 Large Ceramic Glass Diffuser 90gallon I believe.


----------



## karatekid14

I got my co2 regulator from Jaggedfury today. Thanks!


----------



## Jaggedfury

Nope problem.

Ok people. I finally had a chance to go check out the co2 tubing. I got the Part number, description, model number for you all. 

*Co2 Tubing will be 1/4'' Vinyl Tubing SV3/8x1/4x10'. For a 10 Feet tubing, it's $2.98.
Model Number: SVGE10
Store Item Number: 16813

If you're buying by Per foot, it's listed as 1/4'' OD Vinyl Tubing. 

Or you can purchase it by 1 foot for .14 cent each. *


----------



## Eden Marel

Okay I have handed my rig to Noahma.


----------



## JEden8

So I finally got my CO2 setup working with the Watts Needle Valve. Now here's my question. In 2 weeks my tank went from 900 psi to 600 psi this morning. The tank itself feels pretty light so should I get it refilled or let it run till empty?


----------



## do00ber

Jagged, in your original post with the instructions/pictures of how to make the system. What is the blue thing coming from the end of your co2 tubing, is that a check valve or? Ive been wondering


----------



## Jaggedfury

JEden8 said:


> So I finally got my CO2 setup working with the Watts Needle Valve. Now here's my question. In 2 weeks my tank went from 900 psi to 600 psi this morning. The tank itself feels pretty light so should I get it refilled or let it run till empty?


That will depend on these factors.

1. The more bubbles per second you're using, the faster your tank empties.
2. Any leakage at all (Most common problems with people not into this type of setup, Installation error.. majority of the time, not enough Teflon Tape used at the threads and not tighten it down with a wrench.



do00ber said:


> Jagged, in your original post with the instructions/pictures of how to make the system. What is the blue thing coming from the end of your co2 tubing, is that a check valve or? Ive been wondering



That blue plastic piece, is just for me to disconnect that point of the co2 line which is going into my Ceramic Glass Diffuser. It's basically made to where I can shut off the ASA On/Off Valve, Twist it off. And unplug it at that point so I can take the Paintball Tank in for refilling. Instead of trying to mess around pulling and yanking the other end of the co2 tubing at where the Ceramic Glass Diffuser is at.. which can cause it to crack. I've had it happened before so just my method of quick disconnect sort of say. 

Not needed at all. I just don't want to take the chances of breaking more Ceramic Glass Diffusers lol.

It's taken apart from those "Tee" Connectors to bridge air oxygen tubing. A splitter I called it. It's like 3 in a pack for $2.00. Your local fish shops will have it. If you're interested, just referenced "Tee" connectors for air line tubing. They'll know what you're talking about.


----------



## JEden8

So should I get it refilled or let it run out? I was not able to find any leaks with this either.


----------



## Jaggedfury

JEden8 said:


> So should I get it refilled or let it run out? I was not able to find any leaks with this either.


Did you follow the steps in trying to find out if it has leakage?

That should be the first thing you do once you set it up before you even start to use it in your tank. If there is leakage, you will just waste co2 gas.

What I would do if I were you is to make sure there no leakage first.

Put the Paintball tank in a another tank or a bucket of water. Leave it on the way it is with co2 coming out. Submerse the ASA On/Off Valve along with the Needle Valve into a bucket of water. Inspect to see if you notice any bubble forming. If here is bubbles forming or rising, you have leakage.

This will be the problem to your 900-600 drop psi in 2 weeks assuming your bps isn't 4-6.

Try it now with the tank the way the way it is. Don't let it run out or else you won't be able to find the leakage if any. It needs to have pressure left in the tank in order to find leaks.

Let me know


----------



## JEden8

Well I guess what I'm trying to get at is is it bad to let the tank run completely out or should you refill it before it gets to that point? I thought I read somewhere that you never want your tank to run completely out but don't remember where I read it at. Thanks!


----------



## Jaggedfury

The only reason to not let your tank run completely out is so water doesn't siphon backward into the paintball co2 tank. If water siphon backward into the co2 tank, this will make it not 100% usable. Might even won't be able to refill anymore.

There are ways to help eliminate this problem.

-Place your Paintball setup tank higher than the tank.
-Use a Check Valve
-Don't let your tank run completely empty, I would refill once it hits 50psi. 

If you are cautious of this, there is no excuse to not have a gauge. Even 1 Thread ASA On/Off Vale can be rig up to use a Gauge in the same path as the Needle Valve.










Hope that helps.

Let me know.


----------



## boredouttahell

Hey Jagged,

I got my tank set up fine with the watts A-41 with out any leaks. I was just wondering if its possible to add on a solenoid for it to auto shut off at night.


----------



## mmelnick

boredouttahell said:


> Hey Jagged,
> 
> I got my tank set up fine with the watts A-41 with out any leaks. I was just wondering if its possible to add on a solenoid for it to auto shut off at night.


I was wondering the same. I've been told by others on the forum that you can't use one with a paintball tank. But wasn't sure.

I'm guessing that this method without a regulator is too much pressure for most solenoids.


----------



## timobxsci

Can you please PM me a link on where I can buy the needle valve and on/off valve? I'm really scared to buy anything that might not work !  LOL


----------



## Jaggedfury

boredouttahell said:


> Hey Jagged,
> 
> I got my tank set up fine with the watts A-41 with out any leaks. I was just wondering if its possible to add on a solenoid for it to auto shut off at night.


As of right now, I only know two people that have put solenoid on this setup. If you go back 40 pages or so, you will see photos of it. I don't recall page but it's there. Maybe you can PM that person and ask further questions.

I myself am not away of how a solenoid will function with this setup. Is it possible? Yes, just no one has step up the plate to try it. By all means, if you want to try it out, go for it and let us know. 

At the moment, Not really worth my time to put one together. I have Nano tanks that I use these PB setup on. 

Try it and let me know.



mmelnick said:


> I was wondering the same. I've been told by others on the forum that you can't use one with a paintball tank. But wasn't sure.
> 
> I'm guessing that this method without a regulator is too much pressure for most solenoids.



I can tell you a fact that you will need a regulator in order to use a solenoid. 

From asking my supplier who makes the ASA On/Off Valve about a regulator. This is his response. From what he said, he's been experiment for awhile now. These were his words.

*"Well just for an FYI no matter what way you go a regulator is not cheap. I've experimented with a lot of setups. Especially for plant life / aquarium. 
A cheap regulator doesn't work and a good regulator works well but is expensive compared to a cheap setup you are prob going for with paintball co2 tanks. You almost need 2 regulators to make it work good.
The trick is bringing paintball co2 tanks from 800 psi to 1 or 2 psi takes a high pressure regulator and a low pressure one after it. Then you won't over pressure the valve."*


----------



## mmelnick

Jaggedfury said:


> As of right now, I only know two people that have put solenoid on this setup. If you go back 40 pages or so, you will see photos of it. I don't recall page but it's there. Maybe you can PM that person and ask further questions.
> 
> I myself am not away of how a solenoid will function with this setup. Is it possible? Yes, just no one has step up the plate to try it. By all means, if you want to try it out, go for it and let us know.
> 
> At the moment, Not really worth my time to put one together. I have Nano tanks that I use these PB setup on.
> 
> Try it and let me know.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can tell you a fact that you will need a regulator in order to use a solenoid.
> 
> From asking my supplier who makes the ASA On/Off Valve about a regulator. This is his response. From what he said, he's been experiment for awhile now. These were his words.
> 
> *"Well just for an FYI no matter what way you go a regulator is not cheap. I've experimented with a lot of setups. Especially for plant life / aquarium. *
> *A cheap regulator doesn't work and a good regulator works well but is expensive compared to a cheap setup you are prob going for with paintball co2 tanks. You almost need 2 regulators to make it work good.*
> *The trick is bringing paintball co2 tanks from 800 psi to 1 or 2 psi takes a high pressure regulator and a low pressure one after it. Then you won't over pressure the valve."*


 
Thanks, that's what I though.


----------



## boredouttahell

Heres my Set Up:
I put in a regulator that i had lying around to fine tune the output from the Needle valve. the extra gauge is overkill though... it just reads 0 all the time.


----------



## Jaggedfury

boredoutthehell, you're photo isn't showing.


----------



## boredouttahell

Jaggedfury said:


> boredoutthehell, you're photo isn't showing.


How about now? I was trying something new because i was running out of space in my attachments.


----------



## Jaggedfury

It's working now, I can see that working. I thought when you mentioned the gauge was a over kill. I was only assuming 1 Gauge. Now I see the pictures and it looks great.

How fine tune can you go with that?
How precise your psi on your 2nd gauge reads out at?
Shouldn't the 2nd Gauge be install after the Regulator? 

It would be nice to see how many psi it's regulated to. Depending on how precise that 2nd Gauge reads out psi, I know Automotive Turbo/Boost Gauges reads increments of 1 - 20 and even more at time. That might give you a exact precise regulated reading.


----------



## boredouttahell

Jaggedfury said:


> It's working now, I can see that working. I thought when you mentioned the gauge was a over kill. I was only assuming 1 Gauge. Now I see the pictures and it looks great.
> 
> How fine tune can you go with that?
> How precise your psi on your 2nd gauge reads out at?
> Shouldn't the 2nd Gauge be install after the Regulator?
> 
> It would be nice to see how many psi it's regulated to. Depending on how precise that 2nd Gauge reads out psi, I know Automotive Turbo/Boost Gauges reads increments of 1 - 20 and even more at time. That might give you a exact precise regulated reading.


I could actually go down to really fine tune, if i set the needle valve to 1bps then i can fine tune it anywhere in between 0.0-0.9bpm

The 2nd gauge goes from 0-160psi so its pretty hard to see the small psi we will be putting out, thats why i called it overkill.

I wondered about the location of the second gauge as well, i can switch really easily with the quick connect, ill try and see the difference when i hook it up to my diffuser today.


----------



## zz_its_me

*Burst disc blew*

I just had a burst disc go on a full 20oz tank.

I got two 20oz tanks filled a week ago Saturday. One I hooked up to the ASA/swagelok and it is supplying co2 to the fish tank. The other one was to be the spare and was just sitting under there in the cabinet. It had been the tank I used to supply the CO2 last month with no problems.

Boy was this exciting to say the least. I'm sitting there in the dark watching TV when BAMM!!!!! WHOOSH!!!! BANG!!! CLANG!!!! the spare tank is bouncing around inside the cabinet. I had to wait 5 minute before I could open the door on the cabinet and it was still rolling around some and covered in thick ice. I have no idea why this would happen. It had been sitting there for a week all quiet. 

While waiting for the LOUD HISSING to stop I figured something had happened to the swagelok valve. I was really surprised when I found out it was the spare tank.

Anyway just wanted to let you know this happened. If you have spare full tanks sitting around make sure that they are contained in some way. I don't think this would have been any fun had it been out in the open.

ZZ


----------



## Jaggedfury

Crazy. Burst Disc are often times changed by the person filling your co2 tank, if the store is related to Paintball Sports. They will know this, during the process of refilling your tank. The Burst Disc will make a hissing sound if it's leaking/not good anymore.

The person refilling your Paintball tank, can also refill it too much which will cause stress on the Burst Disc itself which will lessen it's usage. (You will have to replace it more often)

Either you purchased a overly Used Tank, with Use parts on it such as the Burst Disc, or after so many time of refilling the tank too much, it weaken the Burst Disc.

In no way are you to mess with the Burst Disc unless you are 200% sure it's completely empty. I still don't recommend people even messing with the Burst Disc. Taking it to a professional refilling station and they'll be glad to you help you remove it and install new one. They have a special way of making sure the pressure on the Paintball Tank itself is completed Drained. It is also held in a secure type vise grip cradle, in case of mishap where the Burst Disc dislodge itself.


----------



## zz_its_me

*Burst disk blew*

Jagged,

It was a new tank. This was only the second time that it had been filled. So I really don't know what happened. it says it's a 3K burst disk, and I'm sure it wasn't over that pressure. The last time I had it filled, the gauge read 850 on it when I put the ASA set up on it. I hadn't put the ASA on this one yet as I was using the other tank. That tank also reads 850psi. I just had this one as a spare to reduce trips to the paintball shop. When my current running tank runs out, I'll have the disk replaced and refill both of them again, but I'll keep the spare in the basement from now on. It was kind of scary. 850PSI is a lot of pressure to release all at once. By the way it was a gorilla air tank if anyone is interested. I got it from I&I sports online. The one running now is the rage extreme from Amazon.

ZZ


----------



## Jaggedfury

I know what you're saying and what you describe. I also know it was a spare tank and understand that very well.

I gave a little info on how the Burst Disc will burst..

Burst Disc will burst itself due to..

*If the air pressure inside the tank exceeds a certain pressure, the burst disk will blow out*

This is done because there is TOO much pressure in the tank. The guy who refilled your tank overfilled that tank.

*When the Burst Disc explode, it actually is a safety device. Thus, when it blows. It keeps the Paintball tank cylinder itself from blowing up. That is why the Burst Disc explodes first to let out all the pressure. Long story short, it was overfilled by the person that filled your Paintball tank. 
*
Just so you everyone know. Paintball Co2 Tank Cylinder can BLOW, as in you'll have half a Paintball Co2 Tank Cylinder split wide open 2 pieces or a huge goflball size hole on the Paintball Co2 Tank's Cylinder.

Lucky, you didn't get hurt.

I would take it back there and let the guy know that refill you tank.

Did he weigh the tanks you brought in before he refilled it? A PB tank must be weigh individually so they can release any excess co2 liquid inside there. When it comes time to refilling it, there is a certain precise weight that they must refill close to and not go over. 

If he did not weigh any of your tanks, there is no way he knows how full it is or not. Thus, it was over-refilled. I would take it back there and explain this to him and that demand him to work something out with you as far as replacing a new Burst Disc for you, Refilling it, and double checking your tank's weigh when full.

All Paintball tank when brought in to get refill, Must be weigh. If the person refilling is doing a half a** job on it and bypass the weighing. Question him/her about it.

In a way, you can look at it like this. Be glad the Burst Disc, bursted. If it didn't, the over-filled pressure would of explode the entire PB Tank Cylinder itself.

In this case, your Burst Disc functional as it's designed to. Burst when the tank is over-refilled.


----------



## Kianna

Jaggedfury said:


> Ok people. I finally had a chance to go check out the co2 tubing. I got the Part number, description, model number for you all.
> 
> *Co2 Tubing will be 1/4'' Vinyl Tubing SV3/8x1/4x10'. For a 10 Feet tubing, it's $2.98.
> Model Number: SVGE10
> Store Item Number: 16813
> 
> If you're buying by Per foot, it's listed as 1/4'' OD Vinyl Tubing.
> 
> Or you can purchase it by 1 foot for .14 cent each. *



Jaggedfury--Went to pick up the tubing tonight so I'd have everything when my parts arrive. I found the 10' roll above (model #SVGE10) and when looking at the per foot 1/4"OD that you mentined I noticed its smaller tubing. Is it suppose to 1/4" ID? Do I need both sizes?


----------



## Jaggedfury

When I brought my Needle Valve in, as Option #3 I sold. I grabbed the very bottom 10' Feet tubing (Model #SVGE10) and slide it onto my Needle Valve.

I would go with the 10' since I actually tried it on already. Making sure it fit into the Compression Sleeve and Nut. 

On the 1/4'' OD Vinyl Tubing sold by per foot, I did not actually tried it out but it looks exactly the same size as the 10' feet roll.

I took a pen and wrote both parts down on a notepad. Either I miss wrote it down, or you saw it different.

To be safe, go with the 10' feet roll for $2.98. I'm 100% that will work, as I am using that.

The one sold by per foot is just a suggestion for folks that need 1-2 foot of tubing only. I jolt it down because it looks exactly the same as the 10' feet roll.

I can double check again when I have time this week to confirm it.


----------



## Kianna

Jaggedfury said:


> When I brought my Needle Valve in, as Option #3 I sold. I grabbed the very bottom 10' Feet tubing (Model #SVGE10) and slide it onto my Needle Valve.
> 
> I would go with the 10' since I actually tried it on already. Making sure it fit into the Compression Sleeve and Nut.
> 
> On the 1/4'' OD Vinyl Tubing sold by per foot, I did not actually tried it out but it looks exactly the same size as the 10' feet roll.
> 
> I took a pen and wrote both parts down on a notepad. Either I miss wrote it down, or you saw it different.
> 
> To be safe, go with the 10' feet roll for $2.98. I'm 100% that will work, as I am using that.
> 
> The one sold by per foot is just a suggestion for folks that need 1-2 foot of tubing only. I jolt it down because it looks exactly the same as the 10' feet roll.
> 
> I can double check again when I have time this week to confirm it.


The 10' roll SVGE10 is actually 3/8 od x 1/4 id so the per foot 1/4" OD actually slides inside the other....LOL Thats why I thought I needed both. It was only a couple $ so I bought both just so I didn't have to make another trip there.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Oh, I take it then Lowes mislabel it's stock. Worst comes to worst, bring your Needle Valve there.. make sure they know you brought it in lol. I almost got charged for it! They're were going to charge it under Watts $9.98 price! Luckly I got my receipt with me! And try out the tubing. The tubing will fit snug on the Nut and it will also go into the compression sleeve(round piece inside the nut) with a little pushing of it.

It's labeled "DO NOT USE FOR ICEMAKER" every foot or so of the tubing. Tubing will be clear.


----------



## Stillboardin

First off this thread has been a great read. It has taken me a few days to get through but the knowledge I have gained from it is incredible. 

I found this forum by searching for DIY CO2 ideas from my new tank. I last had a planted tank about 10 years ago and did the yeast setup and that worked fine but always coveted a pressurized setup. The cost kept me from doing it.

When I ran across the paintball idea and started reading this thread it really started to come together.

So the new tank is a 37g with eco-complete substrate with black flourite on top. Two 170gph powerheads with sponge filters and a coralife 65w PC light fixture. (will upgrade the light at some point) 

Back to the topic. So as I was reading I was searching for the parts on line and finally found an Ebay dealer who was selling the On/Off valves dirt cheap. I paid 13.45 for a two port valve with minigage.









I already have all the tubing and diffuser, just need the tank and needle valve now. So I figure for less than $50 have a pressurized setup that will last me a month or two between refills (or more)

Thanks


----------



## mad_sci

Just wondering if I've got the right Watts A41 needle valve. On the canadian Home depot site, the Watts A41 specs has it's working pressure as 75 psi and do not exceed it. I know a paintball tank can run more than 800psi. Is this the same Watts A41 that everyone here has?


----------



## Jaggedfury

The Watts A-41 LF is rated at 400 psi. Last time I checked the spec, it's at 400 psi.

You can also look for a the Watts A-40 LF also. One or two folks here are using that instead.

Then there is a Swagelok Needle Valve that you can order on e-bay as well. You will need a few couplers to make it work.


----------



## Svynx

Quick question for you Jagged. I just tried to hook everything up. I have to crank down on the needle valve to keep it closed (no big deal). When opening the main valve to the tank, do you just crack it, or open all the way? Being a firefighter, I was told to open the tank valve all the way. I ask because 800psi is more than enough to pop the check valve that is siliconed inside my DIY bubble counter right out of the tube (ask how I know lol) and spray the contents all over.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Here is an installation guide. I wrote it a week ago upon questions about installing the Option #3. 

If it doesn't cover your question, feel free to PM me. I will be very busy for now on but I will PM you back on your questions.

*Assemble in parts, DO NOT HOOK IT UP TO THE PAINTBALL TANK YET.*

*Step 1.*
Twist off the Needle Valve Nut, you will see a Compression Sleeve(Round).
Slide the Needle Valve Nut onto your Co2 tubing. It should fit snug and tight. If it's loose at all, wrong size Co2 tubing.
Then slide the Compression Sleeve(Round) next onto the Co2 tubing that just passed through the Needle Valve. You will have somewhat a difficult time to slide the Co2 tubing through the Compression Sleeve(Round). If it slides in easy, wrong size Co2 tubing.
Once that's that is complete. Put the Compression Sleeve Tubing side first onto the Needle Valve thread, then slide the Needle Valve Nut onto the thread. By this time you should have already put some Teflon Tape on that thread.
Use a wrench and tight the Needle Valve Nut.

*Step 2.*
Remove the Top Knob off the ASA On/Off Valve completely off. Put it to the side. Telfon Tape the Needle Valve other thread side going into the ASA On/Off Valve Thread. Tighten down with wrench. If you wrench tighten it down to the correct alignment, the "T" adjuster arm on the Needle Valve will not touch anything. It will run Perpendicular to the ASA On/Off Valve.
Once you have the Needle Valve fully tighten down, Closed the Needle Valve Completely.
Put back the ASA On/Off Valve Top Knob, but don't screw it down too much. Leave it barely on top.

*Step 3.*
Again, Make sure your Needle Valve is FULLY CLOSED.
Put the ASA On/Off Valve onto the Paintball Co2 Tank's Pin Valve Thread.
Twist it down by hand only all the way down.
The Gauge will bump up to 800+ psi if your tank is full.
Now slightly turn your Needle Valve.. Hench the word Slightly. Wait a few seconds since the co2 gas needs to travel through the co2 tubing.. so observe your the end of your co2 tubing under water and check bubbbles. If 30 seconds goes by and there's no bubbles, slightly adjust the Needle Valve a bit more.
When Bubbles starts to come out, if too much comes out, slightly readjust it backward until you get a desirable amount you want and leave it.

That's pretty much it. Simple as that.

Let me know how it goes.


----------



## Svynx

Ok, that is exactly what I did. I'll have to give it another try tomorrow after I remake the bubble counter tonight.


----------



## do00ber

The proper product number for the co2 tubing is SVEB10..for the 10' and SVEB20 for the 20'. I went today and the SVEG10 was bigger then my wholle system lol..The tubing was clear and said "do not use for icemaker on it". It looked exactly like standard airline tubing but is alot stronger and less flexible.

Cheers


----------



## Jaggedfury

do00ber said:


> The proper product number for the co2 tubing is SVEB10..for the 10' and SVEB20 for the 20'. I went today and the SVEG10 was bigger then my wholle system lol..The tubing was clear and said "do not use for icemaker on it". It looked exactly like standard airline tubing but is alot stronger and less flexible.
> 
> Cheers


No way! Really? I was there in the Brass connector isle for a good 30 minutes just looking at parts. Then squatting down to checking out the tubings with my needle valve in hand. 

I will confirm this for you guys this Sunday. I just have to go there and check it out again. Just for my knowledge and certainty. 

Thanks for letting me know.

I was thinking about charge $1 dollars more and cut a inch or two of my correct co2 tubing to be sent out with the packages so you guys/girls can take that tubing sample in and reference it to the size lol. 

Should of.. I somehow didn't do that. Sorry folks.


----------



## Svynx

For some reason I just can't get the pressure down. Everything is exploding on me. I redid my bubblecounter yesterday and tested it again today. Exploded. I tried going directly from the needle valve to the diffuser. Diffuser is in 4 pieces now. How in the world is this happening (I know, too much pressure). Something is not right. Here is what I do. See if I am correct or not:
connect the bottle to the on/off valve
make sure needle valve is closed
open tank
double check no leaks
crack (and I mean crack) needle valve open
I get about 1/32 - 1/16 worth of a turn out of the needle valve and everything goes haywire. What can I do to make this system work? How can I lower the pressure coming from the tank before the needle valve?


----------



## g33tar

Mr. Fury....glad to see you're still leading the DIY co2 revolution. Figured i'd drop by to say mine has been going steady since October 1st without a hitch, and the pressure is still right where it was the day I set it up. You da man.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Svynx said:


> For some reason I just can't get the pressure down. Everything is exploding on me. I redid my bubblecounter yesterday and tested it again today. Exploded. I tried going directly from the needle valve to the diffuser. Diffuser is in 4 pieces now. How in the world is this happening (I know, too much pressure). Something is not right. Here is what I do. See if I am correct or not:
> connect the bottle to the on/off valve
> make sure needle valve is closed
> open tank
> double check no leaks
> crack (and I mean crack) needle valve open
> I get about 1/32 - 1/16 worth of a turn out of the needle valve and everything goes haywire. What can I do to make this system work? How can I lower the pressure coming from the tank before the needle valve?


In your case, it's weird. Everyone got the same Needle Valve. They might look different but they're the same product number/model number.

1/32 - 1/16 is still too much turn. Even with the Swagelok Needle Valve, it's still Slightly is the word to use when turning the Needle Valve.

You can rig up to two needle valves or even three.. this setup is not meant to stay the way it is. Do I know if that will make it better for you? I don't know. 

Instead of turning it by hand, you can try this method. 

Gently take a hammer and slight tap the Needle Valve "T" Arm to open it. 

Tap once.. check for bubbles.. tap twice.. check for bubbles.. keep doing this gently. If you happened tap too hard, just tap it backward the other way. 

Once you get it set, it will stay STABLE if you have no leaks. 

I would try that before going to piece connectors and parts to rig up a 2nd or 3rd needle valve in conjunction with the first one.



g33tar said:


> Mr. Fury....glad to see you're still leading the DIY co2 revolution. Figured i'd drop by to say mine has been going steady since October 1st without a hitch, and the pressure is still right where it was the day I set it up. You da man.



Much appreciates the comments and kind words. Thanks.


----------



## do00ber

Im currently setting up my paintball diy and i noticed my needle valve didnt come with one of the pieces that sticks out the end of needle valve in which the co2 tubing connects onto. All my needle valve has is the small piece thats slighty bent and the nut of course. The other side is the thread that goes into the asa of course. Im sure i can just go pick up that small piece but does anyone know what its called. Maybe a brass insert? Idk but if nothing fits im just gonna have to get a new needle valve...#@#!


----------



## do00ber

Jaggedfury said:


> The only reason to not let your tank run completely out is so water doesn't siphon backward into the paintball co2 tank. If water siphon backward into the co2 tank, this will make it not 100% usable. Might even won't be able to refill anymore.
> 
> There are ways to help eliminate this problem.
> 
> -Place your Paintball setup tank higher than the tank.
> -Use a Check Valve
> -Don't let your tank run completely empty, I would refill once it hits 50psi.
> 
> If you are cautious of this, there is no excuse to not have a gauge. Even 1 Thread ASA On/Off Vale can be rig up to use a Gauge in the same path as the Needle Valve.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hope that helps.
> 
> Let me know.


Jagged my asa broke when i was setting it up so i ordered a swagelok needle valve to avoid all the bull[censored][censored][censored][censored] that broke my asa.. In your post with the gauge setup with it, what other parts will i need to go get from homedepot to make it work?


----------



## Bimmer

*Finally Got The Components*

Lowe's had all the fitting except for the ASA Valve, Gauge & Needle Valve. Lowe's parts were around $10 total. He charged me $20 to fill my tank, the gauge and a used ASA valve. The Swagelok Needle valve on Ebay was $12 and the 24oz tank was $23 on Ebay. So for everything including the teflon tape was $65. Haven't got the tubing yet as I'm going to wait to set the tank back up when I move next month.

I'll give ya'll an update after it's taped and tested. Thank you Jagged for such an awesome thread making it possible to do this without big, bulky and expensive equipment!


----------



## Noahma

you can certainly find a cheaper place to fill the tank, mine gets filled at sports authority for $3.50 for the 20oz tank


----------



## Jaggedfury

do00ber said:


> Im currently setting up my paintball diy and i noticed my needle valve didnt come with one of the pieces that sticks out the end of needle valve in which the co2 tubing connects onto. All my needle valve has is the small piece thats slighty bent and the nut of course. The other side is the thread that goes into the asa of course. Im sure i can just go pick up that small piece but does anyone know what its called. Maybe a brass insert? Idk but if nothing fits im just gonna have to get a new needle valve...#@#!


Since your ASA On/Off Broke, get a new one. Make sure it's New. I dont know how you guys can break these things lol. Even the Neeldle Valve won't even break unless you try to.

It's a fairly simple setup. Honest to god. It is. lol. Surprised how many little problems people have. 

Take your setup minus the Paintball tank to Homedepot/Lowes and I'm certain you'll be able to find the pieces. Brainstorm how it could connect and get the connectors. It's really simple!



Bimmer said:


> Lowe's had all the fitting except for the ASA Valve, Gauge & Needle Valve. Lowe's parts were around $10 total. He charged me $20 to fill my tank, the gauge and a used ASA valve. The Swagelok Needle valve on Ebay was $12 and the 24oz tank was $23 on Ebay. So for everything including the teflon tape was $65. Haven't got the tubing yet as I'm going to wait to set the tank back up when I move next month.
> 
> I'll give ya'll an update after it's taped and tested. Thank you Jagged for such an awesome thread making it possible to do this without big, bulky and expensive equipment!


That's a awesome setup. I liked it. Remind me of mines. Awesome to know people are following this steps base on photo representations!


----------



## Jaggedfury

do00ber said:


> Jagged my asa broke when i was setting it up so i ordered a swagelok needle valve to avoid all the bull[censored][censored][censored][censored] that broke my asa.. In your post with the gauge setup with it, what other parts will i need to go get from homedepot to make it work?


Please, read what I said a few pages back. There is a reason why I went out my ways to get the items and products then upload it here for you guys to referenced with price and part number. 









*Final Production.*








*Gauged Installed!*


----------



## Bimmer

Noahma said:


> you can certainly find a cheaper place to fill the tank, mine gets filled at sports authority for $3.50 for the 20oz tank


Of that $20 the fill was $4....


----------



## do00ber

Thanks jagged, i was looking for that post and started around 35 and went up..got to like 65 and was about to kill myself


----------



## Jaggedfury

do00ber said:


> Thanks jagged, i was looking for that post and started around 35 and went up..got to like 65 and was about to kill myself


No problem. Keep me updated once you get your Swagelok Needle Valve.

And .. Try not to break the Swagelok Needle Valve or the ASA On/Off Valve! :icon_mrgr


----------



## do00ber

To be honest the way i broke it was out of rage...lol. I overtightened my needle valve on to the point where i couldnt untighten it, even with grip and a stronger wrench and such. I ended up throwing the whole thing and next thing i knew the pin at the top of the asa wasn't working in conjuncton with the piece that pushes down the pin valve.


----------



## Jaggedfury

The thing with people is, learning new things/trying new things they often get mad when it doesn't work out. It's not that it doesn't work out, it's installation error.

I can tell you, If i had 20 sets of Paintball Tank, and I rig this setup up. I guarantee you, I will have no leak. And I can guaranteed that it will work 100%. 

But in your case it's a little too late lol. Let me know how the updated one goes. Chill for a bit and dont break the Swagelok Needle Valve T Arm, it's Plastic lol.


----------



## joshh

do00ber said:


> The proper product number for the co2 tubing is SVEB10..for the 10' and SVEB20 for the 20'. I went today and the SVEG10 was bigger then my wholle system lol..The tubing was clear and said "do not use for icemaker on it". It looked exactly like standard airline tubing but is alot stronger and less flexible.
> 
> Cheers


I also bought the sveb10 but it seems too small as it goes through the nut and compression sleeve very easily(fits through perfectly without any trouble). Is this right?
I bought the svge10 and its way too big  Then I went in again today with my nv and every tubing was either too big or too small.


----------



## Jaggedfury

... I will go tomorrow and check it out.

Lowes either put the 10 feet roll on the wrong product number shelf. Cause I know 100%, I wrote down exactly where the tubing sat. But I will check tomorrow. Just wait a day.

I will bring my Needle Valve, as in Option 3. I will find the tubing and try it on mines. I will hunt down a employee and confirm it's the same part number as the shelf label. And get back to you on that. 

So that way, I won't have to go back there again unless I need to lol.


----------



## Jaggedfury

*Here is a step by step installation of Co2 Tubing onto the Needle Valve. It works the same with any other needle valve. The Swagelok Needle Valve uses a Nipple Pin, instead of Compression Ring. But you get the idea, it's like common sense sort of say.. = )

Took alot of time make this photo so cherish it lol.*

*Step by step Co2 Tubing Installation. From Left to Right.* *Click on Exclamation Mark for Bigger Photo!*









**** If your Co2 Tubing does not look flush like mines, if anyway it's bigger(GUARANTEED IT WON'T FIT) or smaller(GUARANTEED SLIPPAGE AND CAUSE LEAKS), it WON'T WORK! So, Please use the correct size tubing. ****

*NOTE: ADA GREY Co2 TUBING WILL BURST WITH THIS SETUP. DO NOT USE IT!*

Thanks
Jase


----------



## mad_sci

Is there a difference between the LF and non LF version of the watts needle valve besides the lead free factor? Will one work and the other not?


----------



## Eden Marel

THat needle valve looks different than the A-41??!!


----------



## mad_sci

Eden Marel said:


> THat needle valve looks different than the A-41??!!


Yea, I know, the twist thing is in the middle instead of the side...


----------



## wastewater

Jagged:

Thanks for sharing your knowledge... your idea helped a lot of people get into pressurized co2 at an affordable cost. Great work! I took your idea and ran with it several weeks ago. Was very happy with the end results. Got the unit dialed in to approx. 1 to 1.5 bubbles per second. It is holding steady, and continues to run like a charm.

View attachment 27109


----------



## Jaggedfury

mad_sci said:


> Is there a difference between the LF and non LF version of the watts needle valve besides the lead free factor? Will one work and the other not?


It's difficult to say, unsure also. You will need to speak with the manufacture and ask them these questions between the Lead Free and Non Lead Free. That's as much as I can say as I don't know the technical side of this.



Eden Marel said:


> THat needle valve looks different than the A-41??!!


My Needle Valve I sell isn't Watts. Since Majority of the folks here are having so much problem with it, while some works fine. I decided to look around and found a Needle Valve that will make it easy on everyone. 

The Needle Valve above also comes in two form. Like the one above and also like the Watts design also. I chose to provide this one because it just looks better. But please keep in mind, it is not a Watts Needle Valve. 



wastewater said:


> Jagged:
> 
> Thanks for sharing your knowledge... your idea helped a lot of people get into pressurized co2 at an affordable cost. Great work! I took your idea and ran with it several weeks ago. Was very happy with the end results. Got the unit dialed in to approx. 1 to 1.5 bubbles per second. It is holding steady, and continues to run like a charm.
> 
> View attachment 27109


You're welcome roud: It's a pretty easy setup. Your unit looks nice.


----------



## sailnut

*Success!*

I just built and started by system today. It has been running at about .75 bubbles/sec for around 3.5 hours.

I am using the bubble counter, tubing and diffuser from from the newish Fluval 88G system.

The only comments I can make (over and above the ones in this thread) is to urge you to use 5 or more wraps of the Teflon tape, wrap thread and tighten each component one at a time. When assembling usie a decent wrench, tighten very snugly and trim the edge of the tape flush with the end of the fitting before you install the component.

The Swagelock valve should be opened only a "crack" when you first start the system. After that only the tiniest rotation is necessary to tweak the flow.

From my experience with the Fluval it possible to shut off the flow by squeezing the tubing between the valve and the bubble counter with a Hemostat. Wrap the tubing with a couple of layers of paper toweling to protect it. It seems to work here also.


----------



## Jaggedfury

*Ok, I just got back from Homedepot.

I will end this co2 tubing size once and for all.
*
*Homedepot Co2 Tubing size is the following.

Brand: Watts
Product Number: SVEB10
Product Size: 1/4 ODX. 170IDX 10'Feet Vinyl Tubing
Price for 10' Feet is $2.14*

*Handles chemical, gases and liquid. Employee states it will work for co2 applications.*

*NOTE: It's the SMALLEST size tubing that they have there that is CLEAR under the BRASS COUPLERS AND VALVES IN PLUMBING!!
*


----------



## Jaggedfury

sailnut said:


> I just built and started by system today. It has been running at about .75 bubbles/sec for around 3.5 hours.
> 
> I am using the bubble counter, tubing and diffuser from from the newish Fluval 88G system.
> 
> The only comments I can make (over and above the ones in this thread) is to urge you to use 5 or more wraps of the Teflon tape, wrap thread and tighten each component one at a time. When assembling usie a decent wrench, tighten very snugly and trim the edge of the tape flush with the end of the fitting before you install the component.
> 
> The Swagelock valve should be opened only a "crack" when you first start the system. After that only the tiniest rotation is necessary to tweak the flow.
> 
> From my experience with the Fluval it possible to shut off the flow by squeezing the tubing between the valve and the bubble counter with a Hemostat. Wrap the tubing with a couple of layers of paper toweling to protect it. It seems to work here also.



Awesome. People read this guy's words. It really works lol. Wrench tighten it down also! So many people don't do this it surprises me...


----------



## Jaggedfury

*Ok, Let me state one more helpful information.

According to my PM's, A few people don't know what a Compression Ring is.

Referencing this step by step guide..*










*Once you have all that in place. The tubing will be snug fit but if you force it out.. it will come out.

However, Once you tighten the Nut with a wrench down.. fairly tighten. The Nut being tight will Compress the Compression Ring inward which causes it to get smaller and grab lock onto the Co2 Tubing. Hence, the name "Compression Ring". 

With that said in mind, The Compression Ring can only be used once. If you somehow screwed up and already tighten it.. and the co2 tubing still is able to slide off.. your Compression Ring is the cause of this problem. That is considering you're using the right Co2 tubing which is Watts SVEB10 product number. 

Easily fixable, Compression Ring will need to be replace ONLY. It is .14 cent to .25 cent.

My fault, I should of known that people don't know what a Compression Ring is. 
The key word in this is to FULLY TIGHTEN THE NUT DOWN. If the Nut was fully tighten down, this explanation shouldn't be explained.*


----------



## bustah8

I just ordered the option 3 from Jagged. I can't wait to get it and play around with it. Thanks Jagged!


----------



## Jaggedfury

Thanks a bunch again! In the mean time .... grab a paintball co2 tank preferably New. Grab Co2 tubing at Homedepot Product Number: SVEB10 along with Teflon Tape. And find a way to diffuse the co2 gas into the tank!


----------



## JamesHockey

So we can't use standard airline?


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk


----------



## justin182

Jaggedfury, thanks a lot for all the initiatives and efforts for this thread, really appreciate it!

Since the thread has gotten REALLY long, I think it could be a good idea to update your first post with the useful info you have put up lately, like the parts and part #'s needed and the new pictures and stuff. 

Got a few questions for you, thanks in advance \@[email protected]/

1) what is the needle valve you used in your option 3 rig? Is it the Watts' one or is that something else? You mentioned that some ppl had stability problem with Watts' one, and you used the Swagelok needle valve in your setup on the last pages. Which is better, Swagelok or the one you use in option 3?

2) maybe a stupid one, why do you need that Watts A-15LF Tube to FIP Adapte and the other two pipes? I thought that Swagelok valve measures 1/8" too. It seems like your option 3 rig doesn't have that.

Thank you again~


----------



## dmxsoulja3

Just wanted to share my experience because I think it will help some of you guys..and make a few of you get a good laugh 

First off, I didn't even know you could inject Co2 into a tank, I didn't know it grew plants faster, and I sure as heck didn't think I could afford it once I did figure it out..So I was completely N00b to this until I saw Jagged's for sale ad.

First and Foremost, Safety...realize that a fully filled tank has 800-1000psi, I don't have to tell you what could happen if you are being careless. Assemble everything without the Valve on the tank, and ensure that your needle valve is closed, don't point it at your face, or anything that you value. 

Couple observations, you need 1/4" tube as he mentioned, I got mine at Lowes, its clear, it comes unwrapped from packages, just about 10ft of coiled tube with a pink label and it was $2.xx. Go to plumbing section and find the Brass fittings and stuff that they have screwed down to their display racks, you will know your in the right place, look at the bottom or the top of the rack for open boxes, you should see the lengths of pre-cut tube there, again 1/4" is what your looking for, and it will say on the tube itself "*NOT FOR USE WITH ICEMAKERS"* I verified this is safe for C02 as I work right near a large beverage distro plant and asked them if they would use it for carbonation on a beverage dispenser and they said its exactly what they use just in a larger diameter.

Needle Valve...Jagged can attest to me being perhaps the only one he knows who managed to break the metal on the needle valve from man handling it. So here are some tips, if you use teflon tape, you don't need to gorilla tighten everything down. Snug it up till it stops and give it another 1/4 turn or so don't put it in a vise and wrench down like your stopping a leak on the Titanic. Since I broke mine I went to Lowes and got the Watts valve that everyone was saying leaked, again like Jagged, I haven't had any issues with it in over two weeks holding steady pressure. I think I would like the Swagelok one better only because the adjustment arm itself is larger which would make it easier to make tiny adjustments.

The compression fitting, you have to make sure that it is sitting square to the nut on the inside before you tighten it, if you stick it in there and the compression fitting is cocked to the side when you tighten the nut down it will compress it sideways and either crush the tube or the tube will slide out, tighten the nut down by hand while looking to make sure that the fitting stayed square, then wrench it down, only to the point where the tube stays inside, excessive wrenching will smash it and you will get less hold and it will probably leak. I realized this when I turned on my tank and the pressure shot up to 800psi and my tubing, bubble counter, and diffuser started flailing around with enough force to yank it out of the compression fitting which then allowed copious amounts of Co2 at that same pressure to spray into my room and left me with a bruised ego...therefore, test this in a bathtub or sink, the whole assembly tank and all turn it on and make sure there are no leaks.

While you are playing in the bath tub, you might also want to test the adjustment of your needle valve, there really isn't a word for explaining how fine an adjustment of 1 bubble per second of C02 really is, when you are shooting for 1 to 4 bubbles per second, the adjustment is not more than the slightest nudge of the valve, don't forget this when you think your slick and bypass the bath tub step and put it in your tank and open the valve and shoot a ridiculous amount of Co2 at your inhabitants. Remember that it takes a few seconds for the gas to travel, make a small adjustment, give it a few seconds to really settle in for bubble counting. P.S. If you used something other than water in your bubble counter, because you got a fancy one with the cool higher viscosity liquid and you open the valve and allow too much pressure all at once it will push that fluid out of your counter and into your tank, again familiarize yourself with the needle valve adjustment, start slow! How do I know? I got a bubble counter that has a built in check valve, and it was a pain to even get liquid in the thing because you had to push it through the connector ends, luckily it was just water, as my compression fitting stunt led to all of that water being pushed out in haste grrr lol.

Drop checker...don't be cheap and not get one, in my haste I setup everything and started with 2 bps in my 10 gallon, watched all the pretty bubbles out of my diffuser, and figured that I could run it like this for a few days until my drop checker came, I got lucky and none of my shrimp and fish died...when I did get it, I was in the Yellow, realllllll yellow i.e. too much C02, I had to back it down to 1 or less per second and now I'm in the Green all the time. There is no magic number, each diffuser and tank is different.

Hope this helps out all the noobs!!

Was it worth it? You bet! My plants exploded with growth, between this and some Excel I get great looking plants and growth, and for all around $100 that you can probably make back by selling your trims in SnS.

Thanks Jagged!


----------



## Jaggedfury

james7139 said:


> So we can't use standard airline?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk


Standard Aquarium Air tubing can't be used. It's too small. This goes for the Compression Ring and the Nipple Ring that the Swagelok Needle Valve uses. Aquarium Air tubing just won't work on both.

The Co2 tubing you want to use is sold at Homedepot and Lowes.

The Brand is Watts. The Part Number is SVEB10. For a 10 feet roll of this stuff is $2.14.



justin182 said:


> Jaggedfury, thanks a lot for all the initiatives and efforts for this thread, really appreciate it!
> 
> Since the thread has gotten REALLY long, I think it could be a good idea to update your first post with the useful info you have put up lately, like the parts and part #'s needed and the new pictures and stuff.
> 
> Got a few questions for you, thanks in advance \@[email protected]/
> 
> 1) what is the needle valve you used in your option 3 rig? Is it the Watts' one or is that something else? You mentioned that some ppl had stability problem with Watts' one, and you used the Swagelok needle valve in your setup on the last pages. Which is better, Swagelok or the one you use in option 3?
> 
> 2) maybe a stupid one, why do you need that Watts A-15LF Tube to FIP Adapte and the other two pipes? I thought that Swagelok valve measures 1/8" too. It seems like your option 3 rig doesn't have that.
> 
> Thank you again~


Thanks. I will surely update the first page once I have time. I had that planned, just haven't got around to it. 

Answers.

1. The Needle Valve in Option 3 is not a Watts. I get this locally at a Plumbing store. You won't be able to find this, not that I know of. It's just a Brass Needle Valve that happened to fit onto the Paintball ASA On/Off Valve and holds steady pressure with no issue. Works fine.

The Watts Needle Valve, does hold steady pressure for some and not for others. I'm not sure if this has to do with "LF". I've used 3 of these Watts Needle Valve in the past and it works great for over 8+ Months. According to sales at Homedepot and Lowes statewide, LF refers to Lead Free. Some States don't carry it and some do. I'm not sure if this is the cause for the unsteady pressure that some people experienced, while some works perfectly fine.

The Swagelok Needle Valve is just a Brand Name Needle Valve. It does have a Plastic Handle. Other than that, it works the same as Option 3. If I could get the Swagelok Needle Valve locally, I would sell that instead but I can't. Both are the same, can fine tuned down to 1bps. No difference in performance. Both are equally the same to me, except that Swagelok Needle Valve requires a frew more fittings to make it work.

2. This option is totally up to you. The Swagelok Needle Valve is 1/8'' by 1/8'''. Which me, you can accidentally screw it into the ASA On/Off Valve backwards. Thus, that's why it's laser engraved onto the Swagelok Needle Valve the right Direction of Flow. With the Watts A-41 LF and the Needle Valve in Option 3 I provide, it's 1/8'' by 1/4''. 1/8'' being as the side that goes into the ASA On/Off Valve. 1/4'' is the output side. The Tube to FIP Adapter doesn't necessarly need to be use. You can also use a Compression Ring just like my Option 3 Needle Valve Output. Although, you'll need to find it in the correct size of 1/8'' since the Swagelok Needle Valve's Ouput thread is 1/8''. Either one will work if you use a 1/8'' Compression Nut tubing adapter. 

Just keep in mind the following..

Swagelok Needle Valve 1/8'' by 1/8''. 
Watts Needle Valve 1/8'' by 1/4''
Needle Valve from Option 3 1/8'' by 1/4''

I hope that doesn't get too confusing for you. I just woke up and started typing this before I head to work. Hopefully that answers your questions. I haven't read dmx's reply.. almost late to work gotta go. I'll comment on that once I read it. 

Thanks
Jase


----------



## JACimages

thanks again for your fast responses for buying your option 3! i figured your price and knowledge is worth money before i try and replicate another. so im understanding that the standard aquarium airlines dont work that im using on my DIY. so when running the new lines can i run the Watts co2 line to the check valve and the aquarium airline the rest of the way or do i have to run it all the way to the diffuser?


----------



## sailnut

*Less then 1 bubble/sec*

My setup has been running about 22 hours. I initially had it running at slightly less then 1 bubble/sec.

This morning it was down to 1 bubble every 3 sec. I closed the valve lightly to reseat it and upon reopening I was easily able to get back to my setting of yesterday.

As has been pointed out in this thread the needle valve needs only to be "cracked" open to get an adequate bubble rate. From what I am experiencing I believe that 1 bubble/second is easily obtainable and the output will be steady. Below 1 BBS is problematic.

I think that it will be necessary to gang 2 needle valves for reliable operation below 1 BBS.


----------



## JACimages

OK to help Jagged with some trouble i just got back from from my local Lowes. to clarify!!!

the *Part #SVEB10 is valid* but the last 2 numbers will change! i went to my local lowes and thier part number was #SVEB20 the last 2 numbers are for footage. i cut my own instead of the pre packed 20' roll at about 9' and it came out to 1.48$

so dont be alarmed if you see otherwise!


----------



## JACimages

Eden Marel said:


> THat needle valve looks different than the A-41??!!


 the A-41 is an angle needle valve w/o the compression ring



mad_sci said:


> Yea, I know, the twist thing is in the middle instead of the side...


 i think the number for this one is like A-40?


----------



## seyone

Jagged, thank you so much for all of your help both from this thread and the PM. I got my system up and running this afternoon and everything is awesome!!!! thank you again.


----------



## Jaggedfury

dmxsoulja3 said:


> Just wanted to share my experience because I think it will help some of you guys..and make a few of you get a good laugh
> 
> First off, I didn't even know you could inject Co2 into a tank, I didn't know it grew plants faster, and I sure as heck didn't think I could afford it once I did figure it out..So I was completely N00b to this until I saw Jagged's for sale ad.
> 
> First and Foremost, Safety...realize that a fully filled tank has 800-1000psi, I don't have to tell you what could happen if you are being careless. Assemble everything without the Valve on the tank, and ensure that your needle valve is closed, don't point it at your face, or anything that you value.
> 
> Couple observations, you need 1/4" tube as he mentioned, I got mine at Lowes, its clear, it comes unwrapped from packages, just about 10ft of coiled tube with a pink label and it was $2.xx. Go to plumbing section and find the Brass fittings and stuff that they have screwed down to their display racks, you will know your in the right place, look at the bottom or the top of the rack for open boxes, you should see the lengths of pre-cut tube there, again 1/4" is what your looking for, and it will say on the tube itself "*NOT FOR USE WITH ICEMAKERS"* I verified this is safe for C02 as I work right near a large beverage distro plant and asked them if they would use it for carbonation on a beverage dispenser and they said its exactly what they use just in a larger diameter.
> 
> Needle Valve...Jagged can attest to me being perhaps the only one he knows who managed to break the metal on the needle valve from man handling it. So here are some tips, if you use teflon tape, you don't need to gorilla tighten everything down. Snug it up till it stops and give it another 1/4 turn or so don't put it in a vise and wrench down like your stopping a leak on the Titanic. Since I broke mine I went to Lowes and got the Watts valve that everyone was saying leaked, again like Jagged, I haven't had any issues with it in over two weeks holding steady pressure. I think I would like the Swagelok one better only because the adjustment arm itself is larger which would make it easier to make tiny adjustments.
> 
> The compression fitting, you have to make sure that it is sitting square to the nut on the inside before you tighten it, if you stick it in there and the compression fitting is cocked to the side when you tighten the nut down it will compress it sideways and either crush the tube or the tube will slide out, tighten the nut down by hand while looking to make sure that the fitting stayed square, then wrench it down, only to the point where the tube stays inside, excessive wrenching will smash it and you will get less hold and it will probably leak. I realized this when I turned on my tank and the pressure shot up to 800psi and my tubing, bubble counter, and diffuser started flailing around with enough force to yank it out of the compression fitting which then allowed copious amounts of Co2 at that same pressure to spray into my room and left me with a bruised ego...therefore, test this in a bathtub or sink, the whole assembly tank and all turn it on and make sure there are no leaks.
> 
> While you are playing in the bath tub, you might also want to test the adjustment of your needle valve, there really isn't a word for explaining how fine an adjustment of 1 bubble per second of C02 really is, when you are shooting for 1 to 4 bubbles per second, the adjustment is not more than the slightest nudge of the valve, don't forget this when you think your slick and bypass the bath tub step and put it in your tank and open the valve and shoot a ridiculous amount of Co2 at your inhabitants. Remember that it takes a few seconds for the gas to travel, make a small adjustment, give it a few seconds to really settle in for bubble counting. P.S. If you used something other than water in your bubble counter, because you got a fancy one with the cool higher viscosity liquid and you open the valve and allow too much pressure all at once it will push that fluid out of your counter and into your tank, again familiarize yourself with the needle valve adjustment, start slow! How do I know? I got a bubble counter that has a built in check valve, and it was a pain to even get liquid in the thing because you had to push it through the connector ends, luckily it was just water, as my compression fitting stunt led to all of that water being pushed out in haste grrr lol.
> 
> Drop checker...don't be cheap and not get one, in my haste I setup everything and started with 2 bps in my 10 gallon, watched all the pretty bubbles out of my diffuser, and figured that I could run it like this for a few days until my drop checker came, I got lucky and none of my shrimp and fish died...when I did get it, I was in the Yellow, realllllll yellow i.e. too much C02, I had to back it down to 1 or less per second and now I'm in the Green all the time. There is no magic number, each diffuser and tank is different.
> 
> Hope this helps out all the noobs!!
> 
> Was it worth it? You bet! My plants exploded with growth, between this and some Excel I get great looking plants and growth, and for all around $100 that you can probably make back by selling your trims in SnS.
> 
> Thanks Jagged!


Couldn't be explained more. Thanks! You are correct on the plant sale. I myself don't get too much into plants, but if I do.. man I can tell you.. the growth will be crazy. I would pocket alot of chump change from the sns forums. lol. This wont happen for a while, as I'm too busy to main large tanks. If I want to go this route, it would be a 120 + gallon tank. I would throw all sorts of plants you name it, I will have it some way or another. And just let it grow like crazy lol. So a word to the wise, take advantage of this setup! It really works! My signature pictures speaks for itself! And that's at 1bps left on 24/7 = )



JACimages said:


> thanks again for your fast responses for buying your option 3! i figured your price and knowledge is worth money before i try and replicate another. so im understanding that the standard aquarium airlines dont work that im using on my DIY. so when running the new lines can i run the Watts co2 line to the check valve and the aquarium airline the rest of the way or do i have to run it all the way to the diffuser?


Depending on what type of check valve you use, because there's so many out there that are used in other applications besides aquarium. The tubing will fit. If you're using those aquarium check valves, if the nipple gradually goes towards the center of the check valve doesn't get wider.. the Co2 tubing won't fit. This is where you snip say 1 inch of your standard aquarium oxygen tubing, and use that as a fitment onto the Co2 tubing then plug that into your check valve. The Co2 tubing from Watts will be able to fit the standard aquarium oxygen tubing. I tried it before. So I can confirmed that it works perfectly fine.



JACimages said:


> OK to help Jagged with some trouble i just got back from from my local Lowes. to clarify!!!
> 
> the Part #SVEB10 is valid but the last 2 numbers will change! i went to my local lowes and thier part number was #SVEB20 the last 2 numbers are for footage. i cut my own instead of the pre packed 20' roll at about 9' and it came out to 1.48$
> 
> so dont be alarmed if you see otherwise!


That's what I wrote down the first time. I think? After going to Homedepot the other day, I just realize that Lowes differs in number. So it's just a simple fix. I think the problem was that, people didn't know how a COMPRESSION RING works. Thus, when they slide the Co2 tubing in, and yanking on it to make sure it's tight, it came loose. Go back a page or two and read how a Compression Ring works. Basically, the tighter you wrench the Nut, the more forces it put to compress the compression ring... which then grabs onto the Co2 tubing. If you have tighten it down right, You won't be able to pull the Co2 tubing out. Keep in mind the Compression Ring can be used once only.



JACimages said:


> the A-41 is an angle needle valve w/o the compression ring
> 
> i think the number for this one is like A-40?


Angle or not, it doesn't hinder it's purpose in fine tuning. My Needle Valve in Option 3 I supply, comes in angle also. I just thought people prefer a straight shot.



seyone said:


> Jagged, thank you so much for all of your help both from this thread and the PM. I got my system up and running this afternoon and everything is awesome!!!! thank you again.


Yepp Yepp. No problem. Happy Pearling lol.


----------



## coldmantis

just an update, so I received 2 more swagelok valves and I can confidently say that this setup is only good for up to 1 bubble per 1.5s anything slower ie 1 bubble per 3 seconds will take a lot of fine tuning because it will always float to some degree and will steady out in about a day so basically you have to do trial and error, I need 1 bubble per 3 seconds so I set it to 1 bubble per 2 seconds and let it steady out to 1 bubble per 3 seconds and so on.


----------



## seyone

Quote:
Originally Posted by seyone View Post
Jagged, thank you so much for all of your help both from this thread and the PM. I got my system up and running this afternoon and everything is awesome!!!! thank you again.
Yepp Yepp. No problem. Happy Pearling lol.

Wow you weren't kidding "happy pearling" unreal how much O2 my plants are giving off


----------



## sailnut

coldmantis said:


> just an update, so I received 2 more swagelok valves and I can confidently say that this setup is only good for up to 1 bubble per 1.5s anything slower ie 1 bubble per 3 seconds will take a lot of fine tuning because it will always float to some degree and will steady out in about a day so basically you have to do trial and error, I need 1 bubble per 3 seconds so I set it to 1 bubble per 2 seconds and let it steady out to 1 bubble per 3 seconds and so on.


I can confirm this. Mine behaves in exactly the same way.

I am using the diffuser that comes with the 88g Fluval kit. To replace it I have ordered an inline diffuser that needs about 30 lbs pressure to work. This might make a difference.


----------



## Jaggedfury

With the Swagelok Needle Valve, I'm able to get it down to 1bps exactly. 

To get it to .9 bps, is a bit tricky. But who needs lower than 1 bps? 

If you're goal is to go lower than 1 bps, I would use a secondary Needle Valve alongside the path of the first Needle Valve. There are couplers and fitting to make this work. 

I just checked mines this morning right after I woke up. Steady pressure, Glosso entier foreground is bubbling like crazy. Not pearling to say the least, since Glosso doesn't actually pearls.. but bubbles from the substrate floats upward in tiny forms. This is seen through out the whole tank.


----------



## JACimages

*FYI!!!!* thank to all the knowledge that Jagged has pulled together and seeing the demand for these im possibly looking into making, and manufacturing a better product for the Paintball co2 Bottles. i have found products for paintball co2, but are ridiculous in price or have seen flaws. and am trying to take complaints, and seeing existing products, to make the best one at the best price. since the customer is always right!

things at looking to do..

*make a better ASA on/off with both a high and low pressure gauges
*Fine tuning Air Needle Valve down to 1 b per 3s
*possible integrated small bubble counter
*over all easy and plug n play design

as of right now some people are looking at the ebay ASA and the Watts needle valve and looking how to better it, keeping costs low.

if anyone has any requests on what you would like to see from a consumer please post here some thing you would like.

Links to Existing Products

http://www.marinedepot.com/Red_Sea_...s_for_Aquariums-Red_Sea-RS2233-FICORE-vi.html

http://www.marinedepot.com/Red_Sea_...acement_Parts-Red_Sea-RS2319-FICORERP-vi.html

http://www.aquariumguys.com/2-paint...?gdftrk=gdfV2226_a_7c1209_a_7c5174_a_7c239900
Does anyone have any experience with this one? its the only one that is cheaper and has 2b/s
http://www.customaquatic.com/estore/control/product/~product=CO-TM10174


----------



## coldmantis

sailnut said:


> I can confirm this. Mine behaves in exactly the same way.
> 
> I am using the diffuser that comes with the 88g Fluval kit. To replace it I have ordered an inline diffuser that needs about 30 lbs pressure to work. This might make a difference.


thank you for sharing thought I was the only one.


----------



## Jaggedfury

JACimages said:


> *FYI!!!!* thank to all the knowledge that Jagged has pulled together and seeing the demand for these im possibly looking into making, and manufacturing a better product for the Paintball co2 Bottles. i have found products for paintball co2, but are ridiculous in price or have seen flaws. and am trying to take complaints, and seeing existing products, to make the best one at the best price. since the customer is always right!
> 
> things at looking to do..
> 
> *make a better ASA on/off with both a high and low pressure gauges
> *Fine tuning Air Needle Valve down to 1 b per 3s
> *possible integrated small bubble counter
> *over all easy and plug n play design
> 
> as of right now some people are looking at the ebay ASA and the Watts needle valve and looking how to better it, keeping costs low.
> 
> if anyone has any requests on what you would like to see from a consumer please post here some thing you would like.
> 
> Links to Existing Products
> 
> http://www.marinedepot.com/Red_Sea_...s_for_Aquariums-Red_Sea-RS2233-FICORE-vi.html
> 
> http://www.marinedepot.com/Red_Sea_...acement_Parts-Red_Sea-RS2319-FICORERP-vi.html
> 
> http://www.aquariumguys.com/2-paint...?gdftrk=gdfV2226_a_7c1209_a_7c5174_a_7c239900
> Does anyone have any experience with this one? its the only one that is cheaper and has 2b/s
> http://www.customaquatic.com/estore/control/product/~product=CO-TM10174


Believe me, I wasn't using cheap ebay ASA On/Off Valve when I started. I was using CP (Custom Product) $50 dollar ASA On/Off Valve and ST (Shock-Tech) $45 dollar ASA On/Off Valve. The setup works the same, with Watts A-41, Swagelok Needle Valve, and the Needle Valve I provided in Option 3.

Since people in this subject of matter, is looking to spend little to nothing on this setup. I thought who's going to play $45+ for a ASA On/Off Valve. That's where I began to noticed people going this route, linked me tons of photos of their ASA On/Off Valve in mind. 

Alot of PM"s I received personally were based on statement such as "Will this ASA On/Off Valve work?"
That was in regard to $5-$10 dollar ASA On/Off Valve. So with so many people requesting to get cheap ASA On/Off Valve, I decided to let go my unit and grab one of these cheap ASA On/Off Valve and fit in with the crowd and see what they go through.

Long and behold, the cheap ASA On/Off Valve works fine. That's where I came up with the idea of providing these fairly cheap for folks wanting to go this route. After providing folks about a hundred of these, I think it's a big success.


----------



## sailnut

*make a better ASA on/off with both a high and low pressure gauges
Pointless! It's an on/off device the 2nd gauge would read exactly the same as the first. You are thinking of a regulator where one gauge measures the tank pressure and the 2nd measures the output pressure.

*Fine tuning Air Needle Valve down to 1 b per 3s

Its possible that this can be achieved by cascading needle valves. The needle valve controls the flow rate (not pressure) It seems possible that with 2 valves the first could provide an approximation of the required flow and the 2nd one would fine tune it.

*possible integrated small bubble counter

With everything hanging off the top of the cylinder stability would be an issue... not worth the effort.

*over all easy and plug n play design

It doesn't get anymore simple as it is right now. Just screw everything together (in the proper order) and away you go!


----------



## sailnut

<I would use a secondary Needle Valve alongside the path of the first Needle Valve. There are couplers and fitting to make this work. >

Are you saying link them in parallel? That means the flow would be divided between the 2 valves then merged and sent to the diffuser! Perhaps if one valve was vented to the atmosphere and the other to the diffuser this would work. I suspect though that this would increase the difficulty in adjusting. I think connecting them in series is the way to go.

I am afraid that the issue of a sustainable low flow rate is fundamental to the design. The needle valve is opened the pressure of the tank (a constant) drives the CO2 through the valve. At high pressure the valve has only to be open a tiny bit to get the needed flow rate. At low tank pressure the opposite is true.

As in Ohms law the flow rate amps is a function of voltage which can be (in this instance) be equated to pressure. The third variable (resistance) is not at issue since it does not vary.

On further consideration... the diffuser is functioning as a resistance (what the pressure is working into). If two needle valves were connected in parallel but with one of the valves also venting to the atmosphere via a "T" fitting it would function as a shunt and modulate the flow. Of course the CO2 consumption would go up.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Just so you know, there are folks using 2 Swagelok Needle Valve in the same path in this Paintball co2 setup. I'm not to sure about the technical side of how it works, but it's achieving less than 1 bps.


----------



## sailnut

Jaggedfury said:


> Just so you know, there are folks using 2 Swagelok Needle Valve in the same path in this Paintball co2 setup.


Yes of course it will work... its a series connection. My question here is to what degree does this arrangement coarsen the extreme sensitivity of the one valve setup?

The shunt configuration (at the expense of vented CO2) would allow very accurate modulation of the flow.


----------



## Jaggedfury

I wouldn't be able to answer those questions. 

I just rigged this up as simple as it can be for folks. = )


----------



## JACimages

im saying building it from scratch and making it all one unit (not going to lowes and buying parts. as in buy a clock of aluminum) . pressure gauges are necessary cause they can give you a point of reference to when your tank is down on pressure, in which u might need to change the opening of the needle valve to keep the same bps, output preasure may not be a factor

i know the current set up works... but how can you make it better???? that is my question im not here to insult anyone

not everyone in the world is as techy as some of you. i came into this not having a clue and confused at many things and quite frankly would have paid the money to buy something like this as i did from Jagged. 

this is aimed to provide a product that there will be no "putting together" and have the sensitivity to get as one desires, also being user freindly


----------



## Jaggedfury

Definitely you can make it better.

I know ways of making one Paintball tank split into 1-5 tanks. Just with Couplers and Splitters and Needle Valves. 

I could probably make 1 setup using Paintball tank that will last 1 year on 1bps.

You can also add a solenoid, but research the psi on the solenoid before attempting this. Solenoids take a certain psi to make it function. If the Paintball Co2 tank is beyond or below the recommended psi, the Solenoid won't work. 

There are so many ways to go upon this, but the question is. Are folks going to be interested in these setups? I don't think not. They want it to be simple as it is. And have it function. Basically keep it simple and clean. 

lol, as on the other hand, I will rig one crazy setup up one day when I have time. I've know of several ideas to try out, just lack of time and finding parts just isn't going too well for me.


----------



## JACimages

http://www.marinedepot.com/Red_Sea_...s_for_Aquariums-Red_Sea-RS2233-FICORE-vi.html

they provide one.

and that is also my goal. have a very nice possible 1 peace aluminum set up. with the functionality and the ease to work something. people you have to think like i said people are not as smart, as much as all of you. you have to think as if a child would be using your product. ex. easily readable gauges, easily adjustable valve, looks, etc

i think a selling point is that cost can be kept low with just the refill of the co2. unlike some of the other products that cost sometimes 20$+ for the co2 cartridges. also a paintball set up would appeal to more to the person who wants to keep the nano tank. and with this economy people are not willing to spend the kind of many other others have.


----------



## sailnut

"i know the current set up works... but how can you make it better???? that is my question im not here to insult anyone"

Indeed it does work and does exactly what its meant to do. As such it presents an excellent bridge between the yeast/sugar setups and the hi-end regulator based systems. However trying to modulate the 800#/sq_in source supply is difficult. If it was easy no one would be using a regulator.

The only simple/economic addition I would be inclined to incorporate would be an on/off valve prior to the needle valve. Then the user could run at a high rate during the photo period and manually turn the system off during the dark interval without losing his laboriously tweaked needle valve setting. You can do this with the ASA knob but there will be a loss of CO2.

Yes I know a solenoid would do this automatically but no solenoid I have seen will operate at apressure approaching 800#'s


----------



## sailnut

<http://www.marinedepot.com/Red_Sea_C...FICORE-vi.html

they provide one.>

For the price of this system which has serious issues with its reactor both functionally and aesthetically. one could buy a beautiful regulator/solenoid/bubble counter/needle valve from GLA and others. Any of these systems will run rings around any paintball setup.

This thread is aimed a guys like me who have a 20 gallon tank and want to tinker with mechanical CO2 injection.

There is nothing wrong with hi-end setups but are they dollar effective for people .lioke me.


----------



## wastewater

JACimages said:


> http://www.marinedepot.com/Red_Sea_...s_for_Aquariums-Red_Sea-RS2233-FICORE-vi.html
> 
> they provide one.
> 
> and that is also my goal. have a very nice possible 1 peace aluminum set up. with the functionality and the ease to work something. people you have to think like i said people are not as smart, as much as all of you. you have to think as if a child would be using your product. ex. easily readable gauges, easily adjustable valve, looks, etc
> 
> 
> *There is nothing wrong with having a goal, especially in regards to making something better.
> http://aquaticlife.com/regulator/index.html
> I believe the OP had a goal of providing a simple, cost effective, efficient, pressurized co2 system using easily obtainable parts for do-it-your self(ers). Most hobbyists always keep the 'cost factor' on the front burner. Now, if someone could come up with an idea to produce a paintball regulator (like the one pictured on the right in above link), at an affordable price... :red_mouth


----------



## JACimages

and thats my aim and goal


----------



## do00ber

Jagged im having trouble stopping a leak in my setup.. Everything is perfectly fine except where the brass nipple meets the asa on off.. IM using the one input asa that you have in all your pictures...I literally put 20x the teflon tape and still a leak comes through..i can hear it..The gaugge shoots up to 900psi but theres a leak at where the asa meets the whole setup. I think its because the input for the brass nipple is kinda curved at the top at bottom.


----------



## Jaggedfury

do00ber said:


> Jagged im having trouble stopping a leak in my setup.. Everything is perfectly fine except where the brass nipple meets the asa on off.. IM using the one input asa that you have in all your pictures...I literally put 20x the teflon tape and still a leak comes through..i can hear it..The gaugge shoots up to 900psi but theres a leak at where the asa meets the whole setup. I think its because the input for the brass nipple is kinda curved at the top at bottom.


Photos will do alot of justice. 

Did you buy this from me? I can't remember. Sold too many.

If not, I hope your needle valve is compression.. 1/8 NPT. 

The thousands ASA On/Off Valves uses compression threads.. if by any chance you are unsure what you have, it might be flare or pipe threads. They are different thread design, although it will screw it, it just won't bit onto the ASA On/Off Valve inner hole thread very tightly and securely.

That is why I made these available to folks so they dont have to run into all the technical side of the parts needed.


----------



## do00ber

Bought the swagelok from the ebay user you provided. Got the brass nipple and female tee. and the last air tube part. Everything is the same thing as in your picture. Even the asa. But i didnt buy it from you, i got it on [Ebay Link Removed]

There was a leak where the guage was but a proper wrenching and re-teflon did thetrick..Now only that one sptot theres a very small leak..audible though.

If i did get the wrong asa. It looks exactly like yours, maybe ill just teflon the **** of it and use this silicone type adhesive to make sure everything is plugged.


----------



## Jaggedfury

In that case, you can try using Loctite Glue. Homedepot sells it. I used it on my Option 3 on the Gauge thread. It locks in tight! I mean super tight. I would dab a lot on the Needle Valve thread and grew it in there. Give a few hours to cure then test for leak. If it still leaks after this.. your ASA On/Off Valve threads are damaged somehow. 

The Loctite Glue is difficult to loosen after you use it on a part. You might have to heat it up with a small propane torch or a heat gun in order to loosen it. Then just use a wrench to loosen it.

Was the ASA On/Off Valve New condition?

Keep in mind, if you're buying used ASA On/Off Valve, they're used throughout the Paintball Sport Industry. And over time of twisting on and off the co2 threaded lines.. the threads might have warped in some stages. Thus, this can cause a leak.

I don't see this happening in a New ASA On/Off Valve.


----------



## do00ber

Yeah so I used the adhesive stuff..(same stuff i used to plug up my cap for the diy yeast method. Ill let it try for like 6hrs to make sure and check if its plugged. If it still leaks, new asa is going to be ordered, the glue stuff is only on the asa and teflon tape so it wont be on the restof my setup..


----------



## Buff Daddy

Jagged - great thread! I've read all of it and I'm waiting for my components to get here. Some should be here today and all of it by next Wed. My son, who is an former pb fanatic, is assisting me in this operation. When I get it hooked-up, I'll show the rig. It's going into a 75G Iwagumi that I've got a journal for, but haven't posted.

Thanks for all your work and everyone's experimentation! All of us and our plants have (or will) benefit from it.


----------



## Jaggedfury

do00ber said:


> Yeah so I used the adhesive stuff..(same stuff i used to plug up my cap for the diy yeast method. Ill let it try for like 6hrs to make sure and check if its plugged. If it still leaks, new asa is going to be ordered, the glue stuff is only on the asa and teflon tape so it wont be on the restof my setup..


There's so many adhesive type stuff, I personally used Loctite... really awesome company. Anyways, keep me updated to what happens.

It all else fail, PM me for a solution before you get yourself a New ASA On/Off Valve.



Buff Daddy said:


> Jagged - great thread! I've read all of it and I'm waiting for my components to get here. Some should be here today and all of it by next Wed. My son, who is an former pb fanatic, is assisting me in this operation. When I get it hooked-up, I'll show the rig. It's going into a 75G Iwagumi that I've got a journal for, but haven't posted.
> 
> Thanks for all your work and everyone's experimentation! All of us and our plants have (or will) benefit from it.


Great! It's a pretty simple setup. Sorry about the whole reading of this thread. At the beginning some folks were having trouble with the stated Watts A-41 Needle Valve, and some worked fine. I've been meaning to update the first page to a more clearer guide. Haven't had time yet. Probably this weekend. Do post your rig!


----------



## xpistalpetex

jagged - instead of using loctite glue why not use blue loctite? unless u meant that as glue.


----------



## do00ber

My friend is gonna lend me his asa on/off if this doesnt work..and if THAT doesnt work ill just order one from you jagggedd..


----------



## Eden Marel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qX6ZKkkM5eE

I hope my CO2 is fixed forever, Noahma vaselined it. I guess it needed some moisturizing for its dry hands.


----------



## Jaggedfury

xpistalpetex said:


> jagged - instead of using loctite glue why not use blue loctite? unless u meant that as glue.


Because I had it laying around in a large bottle form. It is blueish black when it drys. I've used this for the Gauge thread on over 100 ASA On/Off Valve that went out. Works great so no need to change it.

I trust it with my life, that the Gauge won't fly out and hit you in the eye. If you get a unit from me as in Option 3. I dare you to try and remove the Loctite Glue that's holding the Gauge's thread. 

It will come off, but you'll be out of breathe before it does. Tons of elbow grease is needed to apply on it also.


----------



## Jaggedfury

do00ber said:


> My friend is gonna lend me his asa on/off if this doesnt work..and if THAT doesnt work ill just order one from you jagggedd..


Yepp, go that route. Not a fan of used stuff. But oh well. Give it a shot and if it doesn't work. Hit me up, mines are Brand Spanking New!



Eden Marel said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qX6ZKkkM5eE
> 
> I hope my CO2 is fixed forever, Noahma vaselined it. I guess it needed some moisturizing for its dry hands.


Awesome! Happy Pearling!


----------



## Buff Daddy

*15 Minutes...*









... is all it took to put this together. No leaks and I can get it as low as 1b per 2 sec. This Empire on/off's lever is easy to move while under pressure and it was $14 shipped. This rig ain't elegant, but it's functional and cost effective.

I ran it for a while this afternoon through the intake of my subordinate filter (Hush 55), but I know it wasn't effectively dispersed. When my Spiro diffuser gets here, I plan on setting it up near the intake of my canister filter (Odyssea CFS 500). What doesn't get pulled through the canister's intake will be pushed by the adjacent outflow nozzle. Sometime in the future, I may modify the canister or its intake for a C02 line feed. Good stuff... Come on diffuser!


----------



## Jaggedfury

Nice setup! Leverage ASA On/Off Valve.. something new to look at. Cool! 

I've been using ceramic glass diffusers from all sorts. Nano, to medium ones to large ones with bubble counter built it. They all work the same and works good.


----------



## Buff Daddy

Jaggedfury said:


> I've been using ceramic glass diffusers from all sorts. Nano, to medium ones to large ones with bubble counter built it. They all work the same and works good.


My tank is a 75G and I wonder about the effectiveness of a single ceramic diffuser through (across) 4' of water. I've been hypothesizing that if I can diffuse the C02 through one and then draw the micro bubbles through my canister filter, the C02 may be even more effectively diffused using this second step. I know that it will be better dispersed, as the CFS500 output moves a lot of water! I can also limit the C02 loss (at least somewhat) by controlling surface agitation.

At least that's my theory. We'll see... Thanks again for all the information and the thought provoking discussion. Jagged, this *is* an excellent thread for us noobs and a great intro to pressurized C02!


----------



## Jaggedfury

Theres many way to go upon this. You can use a powerhead as well. Or use Tee connectors and bridge out two co2 tubing with a ceramic diffuser on each side of the tank. If you go this route, the check valve is a MUST need. 

Your way is perfectly fine through the canister filter. 

And thanks for the comments.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Page one has been updated a little bit. I had the time to re-edit some of the installation procedures and the parts listed. As well as photo installations.

It it a quick update base on the way I set mines up. So therefore, it still needs some add-on and such. I thought I just post this up for folks just starting to rig these units up.

Go to the First Page if you need help.

Thanks
Jase


----------



## Jeffww

I just bought this needle valve: 
http://www.amazon.com/Needle-Valve-...CCL8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1296960510&sr=8-1 
I didn't feel safe with that home depot needle valve. If I want a torpedo in my room I'd try to keep it as far from being armed as possible. ( I used to paintball and have had some horrifying accidents [ thankfully no one got hurt])
and this ASA: 
http://www.amazon.com/Empire-Quick-Flip-off-Blue/dp/B001L4B1YS 

You think that will be good? I also bought a cheapo 3.00 guage with 1/8 threaded.


----------



## Jaggedfury

The above items, will screw into each other. As far as functioning, I can't say. Haven't used that Needle Valve before. All Needle Valve are different. Some are fine tunable down to 1bps or even more. Some probably won't go down as low as 1bps. 

The Needle Valve will thread into the ASA On/Off Valve. The Gauge as well. Use Telfon Tape on the threads.

Set it up, and let me know how that Needle Valve works.


----------



## Jeffww

The reviews of this particular needle valve are decent. It seems getting down below 1b/s is difficult with it but it doesn't float, which is a plus. And considering I'm going to use this on a 20 gallon tank I'll be doing ~2bps so it shouldn't be an issue. 

I'm more worried about the ASA. It's so darn cheap!


----------



## Jaggedfury

Sometimes, the cheapest stuff works really great.

The ASA On/Off Valve basically acts like a chamber. When your Needle Valve is closed, and the Top Knob/Lever on the ASA On/Off Valve is closed, which de-pins a pin to the PB Co2 Tank's pin thus releasing Co2 gas out into the ASA On/Off Valve.

From there the Co2 Gas is trapped in the ASA On/Off Valve. So it's like a chamber, until you adjust your Needle Valve to release the Co2 Gas out.

That is basically the function of a ASA On/Off Valve is. 
Other than name brand product and design, it's still performs the same as any other one. A chamber. $3 .. $10.. $20.. $50... $60 dollar ASA On/Off Valve... it's still a chamber.


----------



## Jeffww

Seems like my fears were unfounded. The company that makes these ASA is discontinuing this ASA. Thus, all the companies that sell it are just trying to purge their stock. The original retail price was 30-40 dollars. I'm quite relieved.


----------



## mad_sci

Got a question, when I dunk the whole assembled system into water, do I dunk the gauge as well? Will water leak into any of the parts?


----------



## Jaggedfury

I've done it so many times(hundreds of times, test my Option 3 before sending it out), I can confirm that water will not go into the Gauge. If it does, it's already leaking.

I've pondered this also, the first time rigging the system up to test for leakage. I thought the Gauge will have opening for the water to get into, but it doesn't. So if water do go into the Gauge, there is a leakage within the Gauge itself.

Dump the whole thing, it will be fine.


----------



## Buff Daddy

Jeffww said:


> The reviews of this particular needle valve are decent. It seems getting down below 1b/s is difficult with it but it doesn't float, which is a plus. And considering I'm going to use this on a 20 gallon tank I'll be doing ~2bps so it shouldn't be an issue.
> 
> I'm more worried about the ASA. It's so darn cheap!


It's the ASA in the picture of my setup. You apparently got the last of them off of Amazon. It's very "solid" feeling and the lever is easy to open and close, even when under pressure. I think you'll appreciate it. I hope the needle valve works well for you... It certainly wasn't cheap.


----------



## Jaggedfury

This is a tank I set up earlier this afternoon. I've transfer my Paintball Co2 Setup onto it from the Nano tank.

It's a 15 gallons Rimless Tank. Got it for $30 dollars. 

I used 6 liters of Amazonian II Substrate and planted my Glosso in my Nano tank into the 15 gallons Rimless Tank.

I'm using a Option 3 that I provided to 100+ people here. It's working flawlessly. 

This is to let folks know, setup can be simple as mines and work flawlessly. 

There are about 22 white clouds in there that I picked up for $2 dollars total!

Photo/Pic


----------



## Buff Daddy

*Unaccompanied Full Day Test*

I set my tank up this morning at 7 for ~3bps and I'll be at work until around 5. I really hope that I don't gas any fish today. 

My plants are growing like mad, though, and some are pearling nicely. I have dwarf sag that was streaming 02 yesterday afternoon that looked incredible.

roud: so far!


----------



## KC1

Do I have to have a bubble counter or can I count the bubbles in the diffuser?how big of a diffuser would I need for a 55gallon aquarium? Sorry I'm clueless on this


Kc


----------



## gnovince

You could count the bubbles on your diffuser but really depends on how your bubbles are actually being diffused! A drop checker would be a better way to find your co2 levels


----------



## KC1

I'm trying to figure out what to buy with this system. What is important? Drop checker and check valve and diffuser I'm buying. That's why I'm wondering how big of a diffuser to buy for a 55 g. Should I go ahead and buy a bubble counter too? Thanks


Kc


----------



## sailnut

*2 Needle Valve Setup + Tubing Suggestion*

I was a Loews yesterday and they had the Watts valve in stock so I bought one and hooked it to the output of my Swagelock valve. I have found the Swagelock to be very difficult to adjust because it is stiff and requires "tapping" with a hammer for very fine tweaking adjustments.

After attaching the Watts and checking for leaks I hooked up my diffuser. I found that by just "cracking the Swagelock and using the Watts to fine tune the flow it was easier (but not much easier) to arrive at the desired bubble rate and hold it.

When at Loews I bought a 10 foot length of the Watts tubing its about $3.00. If you are not using it now I suggest that you try it.

I had been using the Fluval tubing as supplied with their 88G regulator kit. Apparently this tubing expands and contracts a great deal when pressurized by the Swagelock/Watt valves. This makes it very difficult to arrive at a steady flow. The Watts tubing greatly reduces but does not eliminate the above issue.

Strangely, the bubble size in my bubble counter is noticeably smaller with the Watts valve and new tubing. I have no idea of why this should happen.


----------



## ddtran46

Jaggedfury said:


> It's a 15 gallons Rimless Tank. Got it for $30 dollars.
> 
> I used 6 liters of Amazonian II Substrate and planted my Glosso in my Nano tank into the 15 gallons Rimless Tank.
> 
> 
> There are about 22 white clouds in there that I picked up for $2 dollars total!


Where did you get the tank for 30 bucks and 22 white clouds for 2 dollars at?


----------



## Kibblemania1414

wow.. 
hands down for u!roud:roud:roud:roud:roud:roud:roud:roud:roud:roud:roud:roud:roud:roud:roud:roud:roud:roud:roud:roud:roud:roud:roud:roud:


----------



## Jaggedfury

Buff Daddy said:


> I set my tank up this morning at 7 for ~3bps and I'll be at work until around 5. I really hope that I don't gas any fish today.
> 
> My plants are growing like mad, though, and some are pearling nicely. I have dwarf sag that was streaming 02 yesterday afternoon that looked incredible.
> 
> so far!


You shouldn't have anything to worry about. That tank I just setup is about 2bps. I left it on Co2 on 24/7. My light is 8 hours on the rest off. I just got home and fish are fine. Happily swimming around normally.



KC1 said:


> Do I have to have a bubble counter or can I count the bubbles in the diffuser?how big of a diffuser would I need for a 55gallon aquarium? Sorry I'm clueless on this
> 
> 
> Kc


A bubble counter is not required. That is used to see how much co2 gas bubbles is being release into the tubing before it get dispersed into tiny mist bubbles. It's a indicator type device. Not needed but nice to have.

For a diffuser use a ceramic glass diffuser that's 1.5'' or 2'' in diameter disc. When I visit fish shop, they have gorgeous tanks that are well over 55gallon and they use 1.5'' to 2'' ceramic glass diffuser and are able to grow massive amount of plants growth. Either that or run it through your canister/hang on fiter. Many ways to go upon this. 



KC1 said:


> I'm trying to figure out what to buy with this system. What is important? Drop checker and check valve and diffuser I'm buying. That's why I'm wondering how big of a diffuser to buy for a 55 g. Should I go ahead and buy a bubble counter too? Thanks
> 
> 
> Kc


It depends on what you want to buy. Drop checker is to monitor co2 gas already present in the tank's water. This is a great device to have, if you have live stocks such as shrimps/snails/fish. It keeps it from gasing them to death if you don't know how many co2 gas is present in your tank.

A check valve is a safetly device to protect water from blackflowing into your Paintball Co2 Tank once it's empty. I don't let it get to 0 psi, normally refill it at 20-50psi to empty.

If you got money to burn, get a bubble counter, drop checker and a check valve.



sailnut said:


> I was a Loews yesterday and they had the Watts valve in stock so I bought one and hooked it to the output of my Swagelock valve. I have found the Swagelock to be very difficult to adjust because it is stiff and requires "tapping" with a hammer for very fine tweaking adjustments.
> 
> After attaching the Watts and checking for leaks I hooked up my diffuser. I found that by just "cracking the Swagelock and using the Watts to fine tune the flow it was easier (but not much easier) to arrive at the desired bubble rate and hold it.
> 
> When at Loews I bought a 10 foot length of the Watts tubing its about $3.00. If you are not using it now I suggest that you try it.
> 
> I had been using the Fluval tubing as supplied with their 88G regulator kit. Apparently this tubing expands and contracts a great deal when pressurized by the Swagelock/Watt valves. This makes it very difficult to arrive at a steady flow. The Watts tubing greatly reduces but does not eliminate the above issue.
> 
> Strangely, the bubble size in my bubble counter is noticeably smaller with the Watts valve and new tubing. I have no idea of why this should happen.


Good observations. Can't say anything about that. If co2 is being disperse into your fish tank 100%, I wouldn't worry about it. 



ddtran46 said:


> Where did you get the tank for 30 bucks and 22 white clouds for 2 dollars at?


I got my tank at Aquaworkz, the white clouds.. it's a secret.. all gone already. Living happily in my tank. Soon to be shrimp tank once the Glosso grows in.


----------



## ddtran46

Jaggedfury said:


> I got my tank at Aquaworkz, the white clouds.. it's a secret.. all gone already. Living happily in my tank. Soon to be shrimp tank once the Glosso grows in.


Darnnn you!! lol jk


----------



## .Mko.

Jaggedfury said:


> So when you twist on your On/Off valve onto the co2 paintball tank itself, without Turning anything on. Leaving the upper valve on the On/Off Valve open, Is your co2 paintball tank leaking co2? If it leaks the moment you put on your On/Off Valve onto the co2 paintball tank, it's your On/Off valve.
> 
> If it doesn't show any sign of leakage, go ahead and close the upper valve on the On/Off valve, and that should push down on a internal pin to open the co2 paintball pin thus releasing around 800psi into the On/Off valve chamber. If it show signs of leakage then, find out which point it's leaking at. If it leaks at this moment, your either leaking at the upper valve of the on/off valve itself or the needle valve thread hole. If there's no leakage continue.
> 
> By adjusting to open your needle valve slightly just a bit, dump the top portion of the On/Off valve into a bucket of water and it will show you where it leak. Bubbles should be going upwards as you aim the on/off valve atttached to the co2 paintball tank unside down into a bucket of water.
> 
> Are you sure your leaking at the needle valve? If so, I'm never had this problem before and I'm clueless also to how this is happening. It's pretty much a simple thing to rig up.
> 
> By no means should you turn the needle valve 1 full turn CLOCKWISE or COUNTERCLOCK WISE, If by most, your only turning it 1/4'' or less to adjust.
> Below is a photo of my on and off valve, I just took it off so I can label the places where it can leak.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If leak at number..
> 1. Your Needle valve pin adjuster ball inside is messed up
> 2. Your Needle valve pin adjuster ball inside is messed up
> 3. Your Hose is too small or not properly seated right, also check for tightness on thread
> 4. Teflon tape not used, thread not tighten all the way
> 5. Teflon tape not used, thread not tighten all the way
> 6. Teflon tape not used, thread not tighten all the way
> 7. Co2 Paintball tank rubber seal is bad, Replace rubber steal. Screw On/Off valve all the way
> 8. Telfon tape not used, thread not tighten all the way (if gauge not used, telfon tape the hex screw and cap it off)
> 9. Upper valve close/open faulty. Consult your local paintball store and have it replace. $5 at most.
> 
> That pretty much sums it up.
> 
> Keep me posted to what happens


 














Hey jagged,

I just recieved and installed my co2 regulator and it seems to be leaking at number 7 what do you mean when you say i need to replace the rubber? I don't think mine even has rubber. Lo l:icon_sad:


----------



## ddtran46

.Mko. said:


> Hey jagged,
> 
> I just recieved and installed my co2 regulator and it seems to be leaking at number 7 what do you mean when you say i need to replace the rubber? I don't think mine even has rubber. Lo l:icon_sad:


Replace the o-ring on the paintball tank.


----------



## Jaggedfury

.Mko. said:


> Hey jagged,
> 
> I just recieved and installed my co2 regulator and it seems to be leaking at number 7 what do you mean when you say i need to replace the rubber? I don't think mine even has rubber. Lo l:icon_sad:


Number 7 refers to the "O" ring that's on the Paintball Co2 Tank Thread. I often time call it a "Rubber Seal".

Here is a photo of what I'm referring to. It cost less than $1 dollar to replace.










Here is a photo of the actually "Pin Valve" before it gets screwed into the Paintball Co2 Tank itself. The "O" ring or "Rubber Seal" is in greenish color circle ring I'm referring too.










One reason for them to go out often is due to removing the ASA On/Off Valve. Over a period of time, it will wear it out and cause it to leak. It happens alot in the Paintball Sport Industry.

If you buy them in packages, you can get 50 or 100 of them for $8 dollars.


----------



## .Mko.

oh yea mine totally doesnt even have one thanks! 
where can i buy a replacement btw?


----------



## Jaggedfury

Sport Authorities, Sport Chalet, Big 5, Any local paintball store sells it. Or you can order it online also.

In order to take it out, you need a angle Pick. 
http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac242/hiball76/DSC01884.jpg

Ones like that will work perfectly.


----------



## acuaholic

> 3.5 oz to 24 oz Paintball Co2 Tank filled $25 and under.


Where can I find a deal like that???
Thanks


----------



## Jaggedfury

You can find it Online or Local Paintball store will sell you a 24 oz Paintball Tank with filled co2 for under $25 dollars.

The 3.5 oz and 4 oz are the more expensive ones. At times new, they can range over $30 dollars for it. But you can find them. Do a search online for it. 

References words such as 3.5 oz Paintball co2 tank, 4 oz Paintball co2 tank.. and so fort.


----------



## bustah8

Hey Jagged,
I've had the kit running for about 48 hrs. No leaks using teflon and the hand-tighten + 1/4 turn. Gauge is reading ~ 800, running a steady 1bps. I can't believe it's that easy. Thanks again. The package arrived a day early btw.

I was wondering if you've ran any of the small tanks (3.5, 4) to determine how long they would last? I'm using a 9oz from wal-mart and using the numbers from your 24oz, I'm thinking the 9 should last ~ 8-12 weeks.

That projects to ~ $18 a year. That's so cool.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Great! It's a pretty simple setup. That is why when people make it seems more difficult than it is, I'm at a shocked about it. But I do try to guide the ones having a difficult time setting it up to the right directions.

I haven't ran the 3.5 oz and 4 oz. I did however asked a Paintball store here in my city and he said he's able to get it for me. But it would be special order. And it cost alot too. For the price of one 3.5 oz or 4 oz Paintball co2 tank, it will cost more than a 24 oz Paintball Co2 Tank.

At the moment, it's a common sense. 
If you're going to purchase the 3.5 oz or 4 oz.. 

You either want it for appearances wise. Because it will not last as long as the other bigger size Paintball Co2 tank. I wouldn't know how long it would last, probably less than a month for the 4 oz even at 1 bps. Like I said, it's all for looks. It does look cool though.

It's just nice to have, cause it's small, refillable. Refilling would probably be dirt cheap. Couldn't imagine it going over a dollar for refill. 

In the long run with these 4 oz Paintball Co2 Tank, it will equal down to more trip to the refill station. Even at $1 dollar per time it takes to refill these small tank.. 12 months x 1 dollars would be $12 dollars per year... take in consideration you're going to take it in for refill every month or less.

If you're going anymore than 1bps, I don't advise using the 3.5 oz or 4 oz. I don't even advise using 9 oz or 12 oz, I would go with the 20 oz or 24oz so that it saves you trip from refilling.


----------



## Jaggedfury

My glosso already started to spread! I've just set it up 1 day ago! Numerous glosso nodes that I planted are shooting off runners already with baby stems!

That's what this Paintball Co2 Tank rig can do for you! =)

I'm keeping track of growth on a day to bi daily progress to see how fast it grows.


----------



## bustah8

Jagged,
Yes, the 24oz would be best. I have a 9oz because it barely fits in my cabinet. Bummer that the smaller tanks are so pricey, as I'd like to go one shelf down and that's even shorter.


----------



## Jaggedfury

When buying 9 oz PB Co2 tank, make sure the bottom isn't round. If so, it won't sit straight up.

You can lay your 9 oz PB Co2 tank on it's side. It doesn't matter.

Think of the people playing PB Sport. The PB Co2 Tank whether it's a 3.5 oz to 24 oz tank, majority of the gun rigging is set up to have the PB Co2 Tank on it's side.


----------



## bustah8

I put mine in a coffee mug lined w/foam. the bottom is flat, but the footprint is so small that the tank is very top-heavy and falls over very easily. I was planning on making some cool restraint, but mug it is.

I did see a mob of those stubby little 4oz. selling for around $14 + shipping. I think I can make the 9oz work. How tall is your 24oz?


----------



## Couesfanatic

Jagged will this work with an inline diffuser?


----------



## Jaggedfury

I dont see why not. If the Inline diffuser size inlet fits, it will work. 

The difference from the PB Co2 Tank setup and the Standard 2lbs + Co2 Tank is just the size of the tank. Both are equally the same as dispersing co2 as low as 1bps. The PB Co2 Tank doesn't have EOTD. Not sure how great of a EOTD the Standard Co2 Tank gives off. 










Just imagine in that photo the Standard Co2 Tank is replaced with a PB Co2 Tank setup.


----------



## happi

quick question:

whats the difference between 24oz and 10lb tanks threads? i need to refill the 10lb soon and place near me fill tanks up to 24oz, they said they will fill the 10lb if the threads will fit.


----------



## Jaggedfury

I wouldn't be able to help you on that. I dont know what exact size thread the Standard 2lbs + Co2 Tank are. I do know they are different from the Paintball Co2 Tank ranging from 3.5 oz to 24 oz tank.

Unless the shop you're refilling, has the adapter piece from their 50lb to 10lbs refill station to fit onto your 10lb Co2 thread, they won't he able to refill it for you. Thus, that's why they can only refill Paintball Co2 Tanks up to 24 oz.

Maybe someone can help you out, I know I won't be able to on that subject. They do use a different thread design.


----------



## happi

Jaggedfury said:


> I wouldn't be able to help you on that. I dont know what exact size thread the Standard 2lbs + Co2 Tank are. I do know they are different from the Paintball Co2 Tank ranging from 3.5 oz to 24 oz tank.
> 
> Unless the shop you're refilling, has the adapter piece from their 50lb to 10lbs refill station to fit onto your 10lb Co2 thread, they won't he able to refill it for you. Thus, that's why they can only refill Paintball Co2 Tanks up to 24 oz.
> 
> Maybe someone can help you out, I know I won't be able to on that subject. They do use a different thread design.


thanks anyway, i seen they have one big co2 tank looks like about 50+lb and they have the scale and refill adapter attach to it, which looks like this>http://thumbs.ebaystatic.com/pict/270702497982_0.jpg


----------



## Jaggedfury

Yepp, I've seen 20lbs to 50lbs to 100lbs co2 fill stations. It doesn't matter what they have, if they only specialize in Paintball Co2 Tank under 24 oz to be refill.. they dont have the correct refill nozzle adapter for standard Co2 tank.

Unless they have this nozzle adapter for each one, you won't he able to refill between the two.

Hope that helps.


----------



## happi

i guess i will have to go to different place then, thanks though.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Your local fire department will refill your Standard 2lbs and up Co2 Tank.

A welding shop will also. Prices might just be a tad higher than others at a welding shop.

Air Gas company is a huge company that deals with dry ice and all sorts of chemical related gas, they will refill Standard 2lbs and up Co2 Tank also.


----------



## aerisxaria

jagged,
i've followed this thread from beginning to end and can't wait to get this project started! I'm going with the swagelok route because i have a 3g fish tank that i want to have at1b/3sec. will this needle valve be able to do that? 

also regarding the swagelok valve, i noticed that there are different parts number that was used in the beginning until the end. B-ORM2 vs. B-OVM2. Is there a difference between the two? Why is one more pricier than the other. Also i can't seem to find B-ORM2 on [Ebay Link Removed] 

TIA!


----------



## coldmantis

aerisxaria said:


> jagged,
> i've followed this thread from beginning to end and can't wait to get this project started! I'm going with the swagelok route because i have a 3g fish tank that i want to have at1b/3sec. will this needle valve be able to do that?
> 
> also regarding the swagelok valve, i noticed that there are different parts number that was used in the beginning until the end. B-ORM2 vs. B-OVM2. Is there a difference between the two? Why is one more pricier than the other. Also i can't seem to find B-ORM2 on [Ebay Link Removed]
> 
> TIA!


1b/3sec is hard to do but possible you might have to play around with it for a while to achieve that ie. set it to 1b/2.5sec and wait to see if it steadies out at 1b/3secs


----------



## gnovince

I am gonna try to get a second paintball co2 going and I have a question? I think it was mentioned earlier in this thread about the "mini asa's", and that it wasn't recommended to use? Is that true, and if so whats the reason cause I can get one for free and would be great to just use it. It's a Custom Product asa.


----------



## nalu86

Yesterday I bought an 24oz paintball tank at sport authority, the tank was $39.99 and to fill it up was $3.71. When i came home, I checked the receipt and it said $3.71, I never paid attention in the store how much I payed and they probably forgot to charge me for the tank. So good deal on paintball tank 
Then the struggle started... To start I never read this on this page about it...
I screwed the bottle on the valve without twisting of the upperthing... So i broke my seal and stuff, after resealing it, the needle valve was leaking, so I had to reseal that, twisted the valve of and forgot to twist it so it would not hit the valve, well I bended the needle valve,... 
After all, it's set up without leaking  CO2 is fun


----------



## Jaggedfury

aerisxaria said:


> jagged,
> i've followed this thread from beginning to end and can't wait to get this project started! I'm going with the swagelok route because i have a 3g fish tank that i want to have at1b/3sec. will this needle valve be able to do that?
> 
> also regarding the swagelok valve, i noticed that there are different parts number that was used in the beginning until the end. B-ORM2 vs. B-OVM2. Is there a difference between the two? Why is one more pricier than the other. Also i can't seem to find B-ORM2 on [Ebay Link Removed]
> 
> TIA!


The Swagelok Needle Valve is capable of doing that. You will just need to fine tune it down and check on it until it set at desire bps rate.

My Needle Valve provided in Option 3 also is able to do that too.

If you're going with the Swagelok Needle Valve, keep in mind it's a 1/8'' by 1/8''. When you go and find the end couple for a Compression Co2 Nut to go on it, it will need to be 1/8'' Nut to screw onto the Swagelok Needle Valve's output 1/8'' thread.

The Watts and the Needle Valve in Option 3 are 1/8''input by 1/4'' output.


----------



## Jaggedfury

gnovince said:


> I am gonna try to get a second paintball co2 going and I have a question? I think it was mentioned earlier in this thread about the "mini asa's", and that it wasn't recommended to use? Is that true, and if so whats the reason cause I can get one for free and would be great to just use it. It's a Custom Product asa.


No one I know have used a Mini ASA On/Off Valve yet. I have seen it in person at the Paintball Store of higher brand name ones and they look funky to me. I'm not sure if it was a CP brand or not. You can try and let us know. I just don't recommend it because being as, you can get the regular ASA On/Off Valve for less than $10 dollars.

Let me know if it works. The Mini ASA On/Off Valve according to PB websites are more expensive...

If you can get it free, heck.. try it out. No harm in that. Wear safety goggles if you need to. Might seem funny but you're playing with co2 gas..


----------



## Jaggedfury

nalu86 said:


> Yesterday I bought an 24oz paintball tank at sport authority, the tank was $39.99 and to fill it up was $3.71. When i came home, I checked the receipt and it said $3.71, I never paid attention in the store how much I payed and they probably forgot to charge me for the tank. So good deal on paintball tank
> Then the struggle started... To start I never read this on this page about it...
> I screwed the bottle on the valve without twisting of the upperthing... So i broke my seal and stuff, after resealing it, the needle valve was leaking, so I had to reseal that, twisted the valve of and forgot to twist it so it would not hit the valve, well I bended the needle valve,...
> After all, it's set up without leaking  CO2 is fun


LOL, next time read this thread first before you go into something like that. If you never dealt with pressurized Co2 gas, I highly suggest reading this thread. The first few pages will get you fairly common on the installation process. It has photos outlines and also detailed steps by steps installation. Great that it works out. Pretty simple to set up!


----------



## nalu86

Jaggedfury said:


> LOL, next time read this thread first before you go into something like that. If you never dealt with pressurized Co2 gas, I highly suggest reading this thread. The first few pages will get you fairly common on the installation process. It has photos outlines and also detailed steps by steps installation. Great that it works out. Pretty simple to set up!


Yeah pretty simple, if you do in once, you never forget... lol


----------



## gnovince

Jaggedfury said:


> No one I know have used a Mini ASA On/Off Valve yet. I have seen it in person at the Paintball Store of higher brand name ones and they look funky to me. I'm not sure if it was a CP brand or not. You can try and let us know. I just don't recommend it because being as, you can get the regular ASA On/Off Valve for less than $10 dollars.
> 
> Let me know if it works. The Mini ASA On/Off Valve according to PB websites are more expensive...
> 
> If you can get it free, heck.. try it out. No harm in that. Wear safety goggles if you need to. Might seem funny but you're playing with co2 gas..


Ok...I will try this out and be "*The Guinea Pig" * LOL! I will take a few pictures of my setup too! This should be good cause it could possibly help others out if works or not! Before I forget just wanted to tell you Thanks for this thread, and what a wonderful help this has been!


----------



## Jaggedfury

*Yepp! Also keep in mind. The Swagelok Needle Valve, or Watts A-41 or A-40 and even the Needle Valve I provide in Option 3.. they are not FAUCET HANDLE! So do NOT crank it like crazy. The key words here is "Fine Tuning". Which means "Slightly" adjust the Needle Valve. This goes to everyone who thinks the Needle Valve "T" arm is a Faucet Handle. 

I've gotten over two dozen PM about folks bending the Needle Valve "T" arm. lol = )*


----------



## Jaggedfury

gnovince said:


> Ok...I will try this out and be "*The Guinea Pig" * LOL! I will take a few pictures of my setup too! This should be good cause it could possibly help others out if works or not! Before I forget just wanted to tell you Thanks for this thread, and what a wonderful help this has been!


Great. Keep me updated. I do know for a fact, majority of the folks getting into this rig will most likely not spend $30-$50 dollars on a Mini ASA On/Off Valve. The Mini ASA On/Off Valve indeed are more expensive. This is basically because in the PB Sport Industry, any lighter weight will put less stress on the PB Gun Unit while playing.

Same goes for the 3.5 oz and the 4 oz PB Co2 Tank. Lighter weight = less strain on the PB Gun Unit while playing. Thus, that's why the 3.5 oz and 4 oz tanks cost over $30 dollars. While the 24 oz tank can nearly be bought for $12 - $30 dollars as well. 

Still, would love to know how it works. 

Thanks
Jase


----------



## Gookis

Got it today! Prompt! I squished the compression ring so it's off to Lowes or HD real quick but this looks like a great little inexpensive solution! Thanks Jase!

Matt


----------



## Jaggedfury

Great! Your welcome. The thing about the Compression Ring, is to be very careful the first time you wrench down the Nut. If the Compression Ring, starts to move out of it's center position, loosen the Nut and re-position it. Keep in mind, once you wrench it down too far and just noticed it's out of the center position, it might be too late already. Replacement will be needed. They are like .16 cent to .46 cent. 

Once you tight it down tight. You won't need to remove the Nut or mess with the Compression Ring ever again. Even when it comes time to refilling your PB Co2 Tank. It will not need to be bother with. So do it right the first time.


----------



## sailnut

Wish someone could come up with a miniature adjustable paintball regulator at a reasonable price. 800lb/sq inch is practicality impossible to modulate at the tiny flow rates used here.


----------



## Jaggedfury

sailnut said:


> Wish someone could come up with a miniature adjustable paintball regulator at a reasonable price. 800lb/sq inch is practicality impossible to modulate at the tiny flow rates used here.


Page 77, Scroll half way down. Someone has to experiment with it to find the results. 
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/115850-paintball-co2-injection-diy-setup-tons-77.html


----------



## bustah8

Jaggedfury said:


> *Yepp! Also keep in mind. The Swagelok Needle Valve, or Watts A-41 or A-40 and even the Needle Valve I provide in Option 3.. they are not FAUCET HANDLE! So do NOT crank it like crazy. The key words here is "Fine Tuning". Which means "Slightly" adjust the Needle Valve. This goes to everyone who thinks the Needle Valve "T" arm is a Faucet Handle.
> 
> I've gotten over two dozen PM about folks bending the Needle Valve "T" arm. lol = )*


I was told that "cranking" down on pretty much any needle valve (even expensive ones) will weaken/destroy them. The pressure needed to bend one of these is too much stress on the needle, and likely compromised the life and abilities of the valve. Just sayin


----------



## Jaggedfury

Actually, you'll be surprised how many PM's I get about bent handles from people.

I used all 3 Needle Valves before, I am still using them right now. For the handle to be bent.. you have to literally put some elbow grease into it. 

There is no way you will be able to bend this if you use it right. 

The Needle Valves takes so little effort to just slightly open it. And vise versa. I just can't see how you go upon bending the handle arm.

Bent handle arms are more common from female than male. Not sure if this is out of frustration or installation error.


----------



## justin182

Jaggedfury said:


> Great! Your welcome. The thing about the Compression Ring, is to be very careful the first time you wrench down the Nut. If the Compression Ring, starts to move out of it's center position, loosen the Nut and re-position it. Keep in mind, once you wrench it down too far and just noticed it's out of the center position, it might be too late already. Replacement will be needed. They are like .16 cent to .46 cent.
> 
> Once you tight it down tight. You won't need to remove the Nut or mess with the Compression Ring ever again. Even when it comes time to refilling your PB Co2 Tank. It will not need to be bother with. So do it right the first time.



Jaggedfury, could you post a picture of your needle valve's outlet with the tubing attached? I think I might have screwed up the compression ring since it's off the center when I tightened it. It's definitely not in the center, but it seems to work. I wrenched it down and there is no leak under a bucket of water. It is running at slightly over 1 bps now.

Is there anything I should be worried about? Should I get another compression ring and redo it again? The wrenching part ain't fun with a small pair of pliers...


----------



## sailnut

Jaggedfury said:


> Page 77, Scroll half way down. Someone has to experiment with it to find the results.
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/115850-paintball-co2-injection-diy-setup-tons-77.html


This I have seen. I am thinking of something like the Leland (expensive) or a small regulator like one sees on E-Bay (metric tank adapter)or even the 88G Fluval (unique threading).

I know that you have been able to maintain a steady bubble count below 1 per second.

I cannot get it to hold at such a low level for more the 8/12 hours.

I know I don't have a leak. I dumped the entire operating setup including the diffuser into a 5 gallon bucket and (aside from the diffuser) not one bubble leaked.

I have noticed that both the Swagelock and the Watt's get very tight over time when seated. Why should this be?

I did some research on the Barr site and it seems that this problem is common to the lower end regulators like Milwaukee. It appears that the only sure workaround is a hi quality needle/flow valve. Some of these cost twice as much as my entire paintball setup.


----------



## Jaggedfury

justin182 said:


> Jaggedfury, could you post a picture of your needle valve's outlet with the tubing attached? I think I might have screwed up the compression ring since it's off the center when I tightened it. It's definitely not in the center, but it seems to work. I wrenched it down and there is no leak under a bucket of water. It is running at slightly over 1 bps now.
> 
> Is there anything I should be worried about? Should I get another compression ring and redo it again? The wrenching part ain't fun with a small pair of pliers...


If it doesn't leak any Co2, leave it. If it's not broken why fix it right?

I had this happened before with my very first setup. It worked fine.

A small wrench actually works better than a big wrench. Not sure about pliers. I use a 4'' wrench to tighten mines down. Using ones too long might over torque the thread when tightening too far.


----------



## Jaggedfury

sailnut said:


> This I have seen. I am thinking of something like the Leland (expensive) or a small regulator like one sees on E-Bay (metric tank adapter)or even the 88G Fluval (unique threading).
> 
> I know that you have been able to maintain a steady bubble count below 1 per second.
> 
> I cannot get it to hold at such a low level for more the 8/12 hours.
> 
> I know I don't have a leak. I dumped the entire operating setup including the diffuser into a 5 gallon bucket and (aside from the diffuser) not one bubble leaked.
> 
> I have noticed that both the Swagelock and the Watt's get very tight over time when seated. Why should this be?
> 
> I did some research on the Barr site and it seems that this problem is common to the lower end regulators like Milwaukee. It appears that the only sure workaround is a hi quality needle/flow valve. Some of these cost twice as much as my entire paintball setup.


Honestly, I have never even seen a regulator in person before since this setup. If I did, I wouldn't be able to tell the different. Probably seen it before at the Paintball store.

Like I mentioned before. My supplier that I get these ASA On/Off Valve said to regulate this setup will be very difficult. He has been selling over 5,000 + of these ASA On/Off Valve world wide. Over the year, he has been experimenting with regulators to bring down the pressure. I've shown him the link above that I showed you and he said that won't last long. The funny thing he said is, people who rig a regulator up to this rig, think it works, which it does but it's only for very short period of time.

If you have any questions that you want to ask him. Let me know here or through PM regarding regulators. I don't know much about them but I could cut and paste your questions to him and get response from his side of view.


----------



## aerisxaria

coldmantis said:


> 1b/3sec is hard to do but possible you might have to play around with it for a while to achieve that ie. set it to 1b/2.5sec and wait to see if it steadies out at 1b/3secs





Jaggedfury said:


> The Swagelok Needle Valve is capable of doing that. You will just need to fine tune it down and check on it until it set at desire bps rate.
> 
> My Needle Valve provided in Option 3 also is able to do that too.


sounds good guys! thanks for the input



Jaggedfury said:


> If you're going with the Swagelok Needle Valve, keep in mind it's a 1/8'' by 1/8''. When you go and find the end couple for a Compression Co2 Nut to go on it, it will need to be 1/8'' Nut to screw onto the Swagelok Needle Valve's output 1/8'' thread.
> 
> The Watts and the Needle Valve in Option 3 are 1/8''input by 1/4'' output.


if i've read correctly from this thread, the hardware to go along with the swagelok valve are 
Watts A-700
Watts A-22

OR

Watts A-29
Watts A-706

let me know if there's other ways to go about it


----------



## do00ber

BTW, jagged it finally worked with the 32 degrees on/off..i took out the side with the allen key and put the guage there with my swagelok on the other side. 1bps and the diffuser is pumping..wooo..thanks again for all ur help


----------



## Jaggedfury

aerisxaria said:


> sounds good guys! thanks for the input
> 
> 
> 
> if i've read correctly from this thread, the hardware to go along with the swagelok valve are
> Watts A-700
> Watts A-22
> 
> OR
> 
> Watts A-29
> Watts A-706
> 
> let me know if there's other ways to go about it


That is correct, it's pretty simple as well if you take your Needle Valve to Homedepot or Lowes. While you stand there in the plumbing isle, you'll figure out what you'lll need.

The above parts are not set in stone, they're are other ways to go about this. It's just the above parts, is what I found to work. I am sure there are many other parts that can be bought at Homedepot or Lowes that will complete the setup as well.



do00ber said:


> BTW, jagged it finally worked with the 32 degrees on/off..i took out the side with the allen key and put the guage there with my swagelok on the other side. 1bps and the diffuser is pumping..wooo..thanks again for all ur help


Your welcome. :biggrin:


----------



## Jeffww

How is the CO2 tubing labeled at HD? I saw vinyl and polyethylene tubing. No "Co2 tubing"


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## Jaggedfury

Jeffww said:


> How is the CO2 tubing labeled at HD? I saw vinyl and polyethylene tubing. No "Co2 tubing"


Taken from a few pages back. It will be labeled "DO NOT USE FOR ICE MAKER". The below is more detailed descriptions, part number, and price.

*Homedepot Co2 Tubing size is the following.

Brand: Watts
Product Number: SVEB10
Product Size: 1/4 ODX. 170IDX 10'Feet Vinyl Tubing
Price for 10' Feet is $2.14*

*On the Watts tag/sticker piece that is on the Co2 tubing. It states Handles chemical, gases and liquids. Employee states it will work for co2 applications.*

*NOTE: It's the SMALLEST size tubing that they have there that is CLEAR under the BRASS COUPLERS AND VALVES IN PLUMBING!!*


----------



## gnovince

Ok, so I got the mini-asa installed and setup for two days without any problems! So if anyone is able to get for free like me:thumbsup: or have one laying around it works! I am using the swagelok valve with watts A-29, and watts A-706 connection pieces. I guess this could be useful is someone needed a few extra inches in a tight spot! This asa on/off is made by Custom Products and is 2 1/2 inches tall.


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## Jaggedfury

Look greats. Good work on the Teflon tape. Looks plentiful.


----------



## Jaggedfury

The power of Paintball Co2 Setup!

This tank was setup the less than 5 days ago from scratch. New Tank, New Substrate, Glosso re-planting from another tank. 

1st day after filling it up with water.









5th days from the first day.

























I'm getting a little bit of algae on the side glass, using a 48 watts T5HO lighting is probably the cause of this. But the growth is just crazy fast. I'm sure within a few more days, it will fully cover the substrate!


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## e.wan

Are you guys using the asa on/off to turn you co2 off at night?


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## Jaggedfury

You can if you want. Or you can close off your Needle Valve instead. I leaves mine 24/7.


----------



## forrestp38829

Forgive the question, but is it proper to leave the primary valve open all the way, and only adjust the needle valve?
I think that is right, from what I have gathered.


----------



## sailnut

forrestp38829 said:


> Forgive the question, but is it proper to leave the primary valve open all the way, and only adjust the needle valve?
> I think that is right, from what I have gathered.


Yes the ASA valve is an on/off device don't try to modulate the flow with it.


----------



## Jaggedfury

If you want to turn it off, you can get away with it by closing off your Needle Valve. Re-open it when you need it. Fairly easy to adjust. Doesn't take no more than a minute or less to adjust. I can get mines to adjust in 10-20 seconds.


----------



## e.wan

what do you think the output line pressure is on one of these paintball setups?
anyone here running one of the new co2 atomizers that need at least 30psi?


----------



## Jaggedfury

I'm still looking for couplers to answer your first questions so I can add a 2nd gauge inbetween 2 Needle Valves and see what it is.

This morning wasn't successful, I just stood at Homedepot over pondering parts that they didn't have.

For a couple to fit onto the end output of the Needle Valve's 1/4'' compression, You will need a 1/4'' to 1/8'' reducer. The 1/4'' to 1/8'' reducer is needed inorder to use a Watts A-715 LF Brass PIpe 1/8'' Close. From there you'll be able to use Watts A-704 LF Female Pipe Tee 1/8'' 3 ports. From there, the 2nd Gauge can be placed on the Watts A-704 1/8'' Tee. Then from t here, you'll need to find a 1/8'' by 1/8'' Female Pass through. Last but not least, you can finally screw in your 2nd Needle Valve onto the 1/8'' by 1/8'' Female Pass through.

The Homedepot did not carry all the parts above for me to get results. it's missing the 1/4'' by 1/8'' compression reducer. I was hoping to place 2nd gauge onto the setup where the 2nd gauge reads 0-30 psi. Being as it counts in increment marks of 1 psi. Then from there I will be able to tell you the output line pressure path.

It gets confusing but here's a picture of what I"m trying to rig up to show the output pressure. It's not quite functional yet.


----------



## e.wan

A+ for effort at least. Im sure youll nail the setup jfurry!


----------



## Loligo

Glosso is looking good! I should be getting my setup from you today, I'm excited! I have all the other pieces sitting here waiting.


----------



## Jeffww

How far does your dc color get when going at 1bps? What lights are you running and what height?


----------



## Jaggedfury

I no longer have a drop checker. It was broken during a water change less than 2 weeks ago no one of my other tank. Doing without. My tank have 2 dozen white clouds, different types of shrimps ranging from CBS, CRS, Cherries, Yellow, Tiger, Green, Blue, Bumble bee shrimps. No death for the longest that I can remember.. last August. The 2 dozen white clouds eats like pigs on flakes and happily swimming. The Glosso planted all over the tank is growing massively fast.

It's a 15gallon rimless tank. Height of the tank is 12'' tall. Running 48 watts T5HO Hagen Glo Dual Fixture above it sitting on the rim of the rimless tank. 1'' from above the water line because I don't fill it to the Rim of the tank.


----------



## boredouttahell

has any one else's on off valve failed? I have a black one almost the same as the one jagged sells. it was working fine until the pin on the inside came off when i went to change out the tank. I tried to put it back on but now it leaks...


----------



## JACimages

FYi i got my system finally working and im able to get 1b/3s!! with very very fine tuning!!


----------



## JACimages

Nvm. Kind of pissed off! The tuning is getting ridiculous I cannot get it to change. And I had it down at a good 1b/4s in my edge than overnight it went crazy and gasses everything in my tank.  so I'm thinking another valve?


----------



## sailnut

After 3 weeks I have found that its very hard to set a certain bubble rate and have the system sustain it.

My experience is that the bubble count will drop to very a low level and then hold it. It will also hold pretty steady above 2bbs. I have trouble staying at 1bbs or slightly less. It just drifts downwards.

I bought a 5lb CO2 tank and ordered a Milwaukee regulator. Although far from the best it should be more consistent then what I am obtaining with my present setup.


----------



## Jaggedfury

JACimages said:


> Nvm. Kind of pissed off! The tuning is getting ridiculous I cannot get it to change. And I had it down at a good 1b/4s in my edge than overnight it went crazy and gasses everything in my tank.  so I'm thinking another valve?


How is it that you're gasping everything to death. I can assure you mines run 24/7 and I have 22 fish, 60+ mix shrimps, live plants and no death occur. 

If I had a camera set up, you can watch it daily lol. There is no problem besides a little too much high of the lighting fixture that causes a slight green water. Other than that fish/shrimps/plants are alive and growing. 

Temperature would have a play in this, but not much. It wouldn't jump from 2 bps for 1bps. It does however depending on the coldness of the room/tank, it drops by .1-.2 bps. 

Check for leaks, check for leaks, check for leaks. Checking for leaks don't not mean dump the top end of the tank into the water and take it out. It means keep it underwater, spin it around a few times and observe bubble or bubbles forming.

Unsteady pressure are caused by leaks.


----------



## jahmic

I had issues getting a good seal with the brass compression rings. Like a couple other people that posted up here noticed...the ring would slip as you tightened it down, awkwardly pinch the tubing, and create a bad seal. I tried multiple times, but no matter what, it would always end with a tiny leak.

Went to home depot and the employee (who is also a friend of mine) who has worked on similar setups for indoor gardening basically said that the brass rings paired with the vinyl tubing were the issue. Granted, it COULD work...and I'm sure it has for TONS of people, but I couldn't get a seal that I was happy with for the life of me.

So, he handed me some Delrin compression rings. Watts makes them, 1/4". Sorry I don't have the exact part number, but it says "A-1 60-PT" on the bag. They come 3 to a bag for just over a dollar. Basically, his reasoning was that the vinyl tubing is too soft to easily hold the brass ring in place as you tighten it down, and invariably, if the threading is off on the collar by just the slightest amount, the pressure causes the ring to slip, move the tubing off to the side, and collapse unevenly...then you're stuck with a leak. The delrin sleeve is molded a little differently, and doesn't slip...at all.

I got home, threw on the delrin sleeve, and had a great seal on the first shot. In fact, I was able to wrench it down enough that the tubing actually stretches when I try to tug it out of the nut...there's no way it's coming out.

So...if anybody is having any issues with getting the brass compression ring to stay in place, I'd say grab some of those and see how they go. 













Here's a pic of the ring. Sorry, didn't take one while installing. They MUST be installed with the Left side of that compression ring facing the valve. In other words, the CO2 outflow would be heading to the right of that photo once you have the ring installed


----------



## Couesfanatic

Are you guys using check valves with this setup?


----------



## jjonesrjc

Question my setup I got a package number 3 I have co2 tubing and just received my bubble counter and diffuser from GLA the diffuser states it needs low pressure of about 33 psi is there a way to regulate the pressure with the ASA on/off? Or can it handle the 800 psi of this setup and is saying it can work with as little pressure as 33psi?


----------



## Jaggedfury

With all the hype about those super diffuser that mist a ton, I've got myself one, 45mm size from a local aquarium shop in town. The 30psi or whatever they're rated at, will work with this setup. I will get photos later on. 

So to answer your questions, yes it will work.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Couesfanatic said:


> Are you guys using check valves with this setup?


Check Valve or not, it works fine. I use it on of my setup, and the others I don't. This is because one of my tank is placed up high, so the PB tank sits low. In hopes that the aquarium water doesn't siphon backward, a check valve is used.


----------



## jahmic

Just wanted to pop in and say thanks for the setup.

I decided to take a test run using last night using a "chopstick diffuser" method last night, and placed the diffuser into my HOB where it's sitting underneath the impeller motor...made myself a little DIY reactor back there. Drop checker went from blue to green over night, and it's been green all day. Decided to turn the flow rate down since it hasn't shifted toward a darker green all day, and I'd like to try leaving it on 24/7 and know that I won't gas my tank...we'll see how that goes.

I've actually had zero issues getting a steady low flow rate. Right now I'm sitting at 1 bubble every 5 seconds. Last night it was 1 bubble every 3 seconds, and was still right there when I got home. I decided to turn it down a bit tonight, just in case. I figured I'd play it safe since the drop checker started out blue last night, and it's starting out green tonight...

Made myself a DIY bubble counter using a BD Vacutainer urine collection cup, lol. Had PLENTY sitting around at work, and the design made it a no brainer for making a bubble counter. Here's what they look like:










So...thanks again, I'll keep you posted. Definitely stoked about the upcoming rescape and the explosion of growth that I'm sure will go along with it. :thumbsup:


I should also mention...I did attempt to use a standard glass diffuser, and noticed that the valve and the outgoing pressure had to be significantly higher for the diffuser to function properly. Also, the bps rate seemed to fluctuate here and there with that setup. Not sure why...just an observation. Perhaps I was impatient though and didn't give things enough time to settle in since I only had it going for an hour like that. But, in the end...I decided that I didn't like the mist of bubbles sitting on the top glass of my tank (fluval edge), so I decided that I'd stick with the HOB "reactor" and see where that takes things.

Total cost for pressurized CO2 (minus the diffuser that I'll probably sell off): $54 :b


----------



## Jaggedfury

jahmic said:


> Just wanted to pop in and say thanks for the setup.
> 
> I decided to take a test run using last night using a "chopstick diffuser" method last night, and placed the diffuser into my HOB where it's sitting underneath the impeller motor...made myself a little DIY reactor back there. Drop checker went from blue to green over night, and it's been green all day. Decided to turn the flow rate down since it hasn't shifted toward a darker green all day, and I'd like to try leaving it on 24/7 and know that I won't gas my tank...we'll see how that goes.
> 
> I've actually had zero issues getting a steady low flow rate. Right now I'm sitting at 1 bubble every 5 seconds. Last night it was 1 bubble every 3 seconds, and was still right there when I got home. I decided to turn it down a bit tonight, just in case. I figured I'd play it safe since the drop checker started out blue last night, and it's starting out green tonight...
> 
> Made myself a DIY bubble counter using a BD Vacutainer urine collection cup, lol. Had PLENTY sitting around at work, and the design made it a no brainer for making a bubble counter. Here's what they look like:
> 
> 
> 
> So...thanks again, I'll keep you posted. Definitely stoked about the upcoming rescape and the explosion of growth that I'm sure will go along with it.
> 
> 
> I should also mention...I did attempt to use a standard glass diffuser, and noticed that the valve and the outgoing pressure had to be significantly higher for the diffuser to function properly. Also, the bps rate seemed to fluctuate here and there with that setup. Not sure why...just an observation. Perhaps I was impatient though and didn't give things enough time to settle in since I only had it going for an hour like that. But, in the end...I decided that I didn't like the mist of bubbles sitting on the top glass of my tank (fluval edge), so I decided that I'd stick with the HOB "reactor" and see where that takes things.
> 
> Total cost for pressurized CO2 (minus the diffuser that I'll probably sell off): $54 :b


*Great! A week ago for the initial setup of one of my newly bought planted tank, I tweaked it to 2 bps. I dropped it down to 1 bps due to having too high of a lighting and the co2 causes a massive green water outbreak. Doing water changes daily to get rid of it. On the other hand, plenty of plant growth. I expect to have a Glosso fully cover mat in 3-4 weeks. *


Ok, I just got off the phone with my vendor that supplies me with PB parts.

I showed him this setup I have.









He said that works great. The only thing he would do is to remove that 2nd gauge and use a more precise (often time bigger) gauge with readings from 1-10 psi increments. 

He also mentioned, that a regulator is not needed in this application because a regulator is used to control constant flow of VERY HIGH OUTPUT PRESSURE. 

He gave me an example.

850 psi + escape from the PB tank, then is held back by my Needle Valve. Until that Needle Valve is opened, a set psi isn't marked down. A regulator would be needed, if you are outputting alot of psi. Alot to him is 100 psi. (He mentioned 100psi as the example). So if 100 psi comes out of your Needle Valve from the 850 psi that is stuck in the ASA On/Off Valve chamber, A regulator is needed to regulate the VERY HIGH PRESSURE Flow.

His comments regarding all my setups is that, it doesn't need a regulator at all. He also mentioned with the setup I have, fine tuning is already accomplished. The pressure is held back as long as your Needle Valve can take it. This is why you're able to go down to 1bps being lowest. 

I'm not sure if that answers some of your folk's questions regarding a regulator. But to me it seems very right. Constant flow is already given at such low bps for our applications that its used in. I still don't see a need for a regulator.

Let me know how you folks think about it. Or have any questions I can ask him. 

Just so people know, regulators aren't cheap. If one feels more "happier" with a regulator, I assume you'll dish out $30 + dollar for one to be hooked up to this PB setup?

Thanks
Jase


----------



## sailnut

When the second needle valve is closed and nothing is flowing the pressure in your above posted system will be that of the CO2 tank.

The first and second needle valves only restrict the flow. They partially obstruct the little hole which the CO2 flows through. The first valve controls the maximum flow that can be modulated by the 2nd valve. Once that flow rate is exceed the pressure that the 2nd valve sees will drop. 

Try clamping the hose from the 2nd needle to the diffuser so the gas cannot flow. The pressure will instantly start rising and blow out the tubing because with NO flow the pressure through out the system will rapidly equalize to that of the CO2 tank. THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN WITH A REGULATOR!

Since the first valve is coarsely modulating the flow rate the idea is to use the second valve to fine tune the output of the first.

A regulator allows CO2 to flow from the high pressure source to a low pressure reservoir. A valve opens when the pressure goes down and closes when the pressure rises. With a regulator your needle valve NEVER sees more then the pressure in the regulated reservoir. When properly setup this pressure approximates what which is needed to drive your diffuser . That's what makes it much easier to tune the flow.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Forget this 2nd setup. It's just going to make things complicated. The first setups works fine already. People are using it great. The problem lies where people are wanting to go less than 1 bubble per second.

I am working on a regulator at the moment. Will post updates in a few days to week. Still looking for coupling parts for the regulators and 90 degree elbow. I am only messing with a regulator due to the fact a few people are interested in it. I say no more than 6 people over a 140 people who purchased this product.


----------



## jjonesrjc

I'm definitely interested in the regulator.


----------



## Jaggedfury

It's being order at the moment. I can't say or give a name or information about it yet. I don't want people to go and order it and have problems. So when I get it in a few business day, I'll put it to use and see how it goes. 

I don't even know what to look for as far as functionally of the regulator. The Option 3 setup, I use 24/7 and haven't touched it since the Superbowl day. Working fine, steady pressure. 

But I'll couple the regulator to my setup, once it gets here and see what happens. It's either going to be a waste of money adding to the Option 3 or somehow make it work even better to lower psi level such as in the tenths or make the whole setup faulty.


----------



## nalu86

Problem.... Needle valve keeps closing itself.... 
When I set it to 2 bps after couple of hours to days it shuts it self down...
What can I do against this? 
Thx


----------



## Bedpan

Just finished setting up on the weekend. Having the same issue. Seems to keep slowing until it stops. Only had it running about 24 hours so might just need more time.


----------



## Jaggedfury

nalu86 said:


> Problem.... Needle valve keeps closing itself....
> When I set it to 2 bps after couple of hours to days it shuts it self down...
> What can I do against this?
> Thx


Once set, it should never shut off by itself. It this is present. There is a leak or leaks. 



Bedpan said:


> Just finished setting up on the weekend. Having the same issue. Seems to keep slowing until it stops. Only had it running about 24 hours so might just need more time.


Same as above post. Bottom line, there's leakage. 

A leak can take several seconds to minutes to form a tiny bubble underwater when inspect for leakage. It doesn't necessarily need to have bubbles coming out of the threaded areas, and have bubbles float upward.

I can't stress enough on that. Seriously. 

Use Teflon Tape 6-9 times around the threads. And believe it or not, Wrench it down with a wrench. I don't care if the wrench cost .99 cent. Wrench it down tight.

<-- 3 Paintball Co2 Setup running. Only inspect/observe tank, feed shrimps, feed fish. Co2 Setups are ran at 24/7. Don't bother touching it, holds steady pressure and not gassing fish/shrimps/or over excess co2 present in the tank.


----------



## Bedpan

Just thought I should backtrack a second and say thanks. With reading over much of the tread I was able to put this together in about 20 minutes. 

I am confident I am leak free. As suggested lots of t-tape used my channel locks etc. I suspect my problem is patience. With my ceramic diffuser it holds a bit of pressure so it seems to take awhile to level out. I think I just need to remember which way is off when I am adjusting and try and give in 15 minutes or so between adjustments. Probable be the weekend before I get to really hone this in

Thanks again


----------



## HolyAngel

can anyone recommend a good bubble counter that *isn't* made cheaply and won't leak? I think that seems to be my only issue at the moment. had to pickup a second paintball tank since my first one started leaking from the little nut thats screwed into the main valve on the tank labelled 3k?, not sure what to do about that or how to fix it as I couldn't tighten it down any further and lost about 700psi over night because of it.


----------



## zz_its_me

HolyAngel said:


> can anyone recommend a good bubble counter that *isn't* made cheaply and won't leak? I think that seems to be my only issue at the moment.



I use this one from the Fluval CO2 88 kit. It sells separately, I got mine from the LFS for $4.99 Drs foster/smith sells them for $4.49. Do a google search for Fluval bubble counter. It's nice at a reasonable price. The CO2 tubing does fit it nicely. Just screw the lock nuts down against the bubble counter, attach the tubing, then screw the lock nuts back up to lock the tubing in place.


----------



## Jaggedfury

HolyAngel said:


> can anyone recommend a good bubble counter that *isn't* made cheaply and won't leak? I think that seems to be my only issue at the moment. had to pickup a second paintball tank since my first one started leaking from the little nut thats screwed into the main valve on the tank labelled 3k?, not sure what to do about that or how to fix it as I couldn't tighten it down any further and lost about 700psi over night because of it.


The "Burst Valve" marked 3k, you are never to loosen or tighten that. Professional people should do that. It's very dangerous when it has any slight bit of co2 gas in the tank. Next time, don't mess with it. It's screwed in at a certain point to where if the Paintball Co2 Tank is filled too much, it's a safety device that will "Burst" out instead of having the Paintball Co2 Tank blow up. The "Burst Valve" bursting is a good thing, it means it works as it's designed to. If it doesn't burst, and your Paintball Co2 Tank blows up first, The "Burst Valve" is defective. 

If it leaks there, I would take it back to the store that you got it from, or go to a store that sells Paintball Co2 Tanks and have them replace the "Burst Valve" for you.


----------



## nerdyjon

I repeat DO NOT play around with the burst valve.

I used to paintball and had some high pressure carbon fiber tanks and the burst valve saved my life twice.

Just get it fixed ($5?)


----------



## shd17

hey Jaggedfury, can I ask what is the model number of the needle valve you are using?


----------



## HolyAngel

Ok good to know, I looked it up and that's what I figured. I only tried to tighten it, never loosened, but it was leaking before I ever touched it, leaking from the instant it got filled. I'll definitely take it somewhere to have it replaced and then order another one of those option 3's and use it on another tank 

Thanks for the Info!


----------



## Geoscouter

I noticed that the top of your glass diffuser was green with algae. Do these get plugged up over time? Is there any maintenance that should be performed on them? Maybe a soak in a bleach solution or do they just keep on running? Curious since I have one on order from jagged.


----------



## ddtran46

Jaggedfury said:


>


Hi I have the same on/off adapter as the one in the pic and I was wondering if I need teflon tape on the gauge or not. I am a little scared to twist it off and put some teflon tape on it. It is on very tight.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Geoscouter said:


> I noticed that the top of your glass diffuser was green with algae. Do these get plugged up over time? Is there any maintenance that should be performed on them? Maybe a soak in a bleach solution or do they just keep on running? Curious since I have one on order from jagged.


I believed most people using ceramic glass diffuser will some point have algae buildup on it. It's not difficult to take out. Just a simple transfer into a hydrogen peroxide solution that you can get from Wal Mart for $1.99 and it cleans it off. I'll let it soak in it for a good minute, then rinse warm water over it then put it back into your tank. Whatever that isn't eaten up by the hydrogen peroxide will be blown off once your co2 gas pass through it.

I would rinse them every 2 months, I do it very 2 months but some people do it more often.


----------



## Jaggedfury

ddtran46 said:


> Hi I have the same on/off adapter as the one in the pic and I was wondering if I need teflon tape on the gauge or not. I am a little scared to twist it off and put some teflon tape on it. It is on very tight.


If you're using a Gauge, you HAVE to Teflon tape it. I'd go 6-8 rounds of Teflon tape. Hand tighten it first, then use a wrench and wrench it down.

I use Loctite Glue on the Gauge thread because the Gauge doesn't become defective often. Haven't seen one go bad yet. Glued over 200+.


----------



## Jaggedfury

I just got my "Regulator" from E Bay. To me it doesn't function like a Regulator. However it does couple onto my path of Co2 couplers, but it looks to be a plain "Quick Disconnect" and "Needle Valve" built in one.

Although it works fine as a secondary Needle Valve, my Co2 output gas has still been 1bps. I don't recommend this because of "Quick disconnect" that's it offers. If someone doesn't know how to use this, and accidently disconnected.. you'll have an entire 850psi gas shoot out through a 2mm diameter hole. 

But here's photos of it. The ebay add said it's a quick disconnect and Regulator...

Quick Disconnect and Regulator..









Installed on one of my setup.









That is why I perfer to buy things locally in person.


----------



## sailnut

*Dual Valve Setup for sale*

Check my listing in the For Sale section of this site


----------



## sailnut

The system is sold


----------



## Jaggedfury

That's great. I had something like that 2 months back. Just for my own use, didn't offer it to people.

I know a few people using 2 Swagelok Needle Valve or 2 Needle Valves in conjunction as well. But you can get away with 1 also. Looks good though.

Not a fan of Hagen products except for their Glo Fixtures.

I'll give a Regulator another chance. This time I"m not ordering from ebay. I'm ordering directly from the company.

The Regulator I'm getting is made from Ingersoll Rand, as you know, they make high end products as well as high quality long lasting automotive tools. They're Regulator are very pricey, but I figure if it works, some of you guys will make the purchase that wants a Regulator. Although shipping from a direct company usually takes longer so bare with me for a week and half until I receive it.

My Glosso took 17 days to fully cover a 15gallon tank. In some areas, it's overlapping. The PB Co2 Setup are working great and helping plants grow super fast. Might be time for a massive trim in a week or two. I want it to be super thick when I depart it out.


----------



## jotape65

It occurred to me for people who do not want to have feed the CO2 at night into the tank, once could use a 3 way solenoid in the low pressure side and vent off the CO2 into the air. Pressure after the needle valve should be about 30 psi. CO2 would not last any longer, but it would not all be going into the tank when the lights are off.


----------



## h2oaggie

I have been following this thread for a while, and with the unpredictability of my DIY yeast CO2 I have decided to give it a try. I ordered all the parts last week from Amazon and eBay, so I can hopefully get it set up by weeks end. I went with the Swagelok SS-OVM2-BKB, which is just the stainless steel version of the Swagelok needle valve others are using, though it appears to be rated to 5000 PSI as opposed to 3000 PSI. Hopefully there isn't an issue mixing stainless steel valve with brass fitting. To save money I am going to try the setup without a gauge, though local stores sell them for $10 if I change my mind.


----------



## jasonh

Well I stumbled on this thread and seeing as how I have a bunch of old paintball crap laying around it piqued my interest. I don't have any planted tanks set up right now, but will in a few months. Unfortunately I realized that my CO2 tanks are likely past the hydro date, seeing as I haven't played paintball since 2005...

Anyway, I saw at least once or twice people getting ASA's that have (what they called) a "handle" on them. This is referred to as a "drop forward." I'm surprised I haven't seen anybody do this, but you can use a drop forward to mount your tank to your stand or other vertical object. Unless it's a small one, it should be able to clear the CO2 bottle away from whatever you mount it to.

This has a couple advantages: one, you don't need to do any disconnecting or moving things to remove the CO2 bottle - just turn the ASA off and untwist the bottle. Everything stays put. Two, this occurred to me when I saw the guy that had his burst disc go, it'll keep your bottle from flying around and possibly becoming a missile should something bad happen.

Anyway, here's a crude pic of what I'm suggesting. Sorry for the quality, I snapped the pic of my gear with a cell phone in 2005.


----------



## Master Se7eN

So quick question as I havent actually been to the store to check yet, But the 20 oz, and 24oz tanks at walmart, are they already filled wor will I need to buy the tank, then take it somewhere to have it filled?


----------



## Jaggedfury

I haven't bought any tanks from Wal mart or anywhere else besides my local Paintball Sport Store.

I did however, see Paintball Co2 Tank being sold at Wal mart. They are not fill. Some Wal mart will refill it for you upon purchasing it. Some might not offer that. If that's the case, you can get it refill at other places as well. Sport Authorities, Sport Chalet, Big 5 Sportings Goods Stores, Local Fire department, and Local Paintball Sport Stores.

Filling should not be more than $5 dollars for a 24 oz tank.


----------



## daniel89

Jaggedfury said:


> I haven't bought any tanks from Wal mart or anywhere else besides my local Paintball Sport Store.
> 
> I did however, see Paintball Co2 Tank being sold at Wal mart. They are not fill. Some Wal mart will refill it for you upon purchasing it. Some might not offer that. If that's the case, you can get it refill at other places as well. Sport Authorities, Sport Chalet, Big 5 Sportings Goods Stores, Local Fire department, and Local Paintball Sport Stores.
> 
> Filling should not be more than $5 dollars for a 24 oz tank.




Wal-mart does sell co2 tanks but they are not filled. However wal-mart has stopped exchanging filled co2 bottles for empty ones Nor does any wal-mart offer to fill a empty bottles. If you have a dicks sporting goods near by go there they fill tanks and they are cheap.

If your questioning my wal-mart skills i use to work there in the sporting goods and toys section 

I actually joined pbnation and put my pb gun on there for sale or for trade hoping to get someone to trade me 3 on/off valves with gauges for it plus shipping 



> Anyway, I saw at least once or twice people getting ASA's that have (what they called) a "handle" on them. This is referred to as a "drop forward." I'm surprised I haven't seen anybody do this, but you can use a drop forward to mount your tank to your stand or other vertical object. Unless it's a small one, it should be able to clear the CO2 bottle away from whatever you mount it to.
> 
> This has a couple advantages: one, you don't need to do any disconnecting or moving things to remove the CO2 bottle - just turn the ASA off and untwist the bottle. Everything stays put. Two, this occurred to me when I saw the guy that had his burst disc go, it'll keep your bottle from flying around and possibly becoming a missile should something bad happen.


This could work however remember when you do this if you are unscrewing your tank before it is empty to unscrew it a bit then let the built up pressure in the line to dissipate if not when you go to unscrew it it will have a blow back pressure that will come out while you unscrew it and is damaging to your o-rings. And frankly when that happens it scares the white out of me cause it always blows the tank right out the threads with a loud pop (oO).


----------



## jasonh

daniel89 said:


> This could work however remember when you do this if you are unscrewing your tank before it is empty to unscrew it a bit then let the built up pressure in the line to dissipate if not when you go to unscrew it it will have a blow back pressure that will come out while you unscrew it and is damaging to your o-rings. And frankly when that happens it scares the white out of me cause it always blows the tank right out the threads with a loud pop (oO).


That's what the little hole is for on a lot of ASAs  Also when I was playing pb I would turn off the ASA and then fire the marker (empty hopper of course) a few times til the built up pressure was gone...seems like you can just turn off the ASA without turning off your NV and wait a few minutes for the remaining pressure to continue its journey through the lines and into the tank.


----------



## coldmantis

anyone had an issue with the swagelok closing, I have 3 of them and one seems to be closing on me, maybe I wrenched the nut below the turn knob too tight?


----------



## daniel89

jasonh said:


> That's what the little hole is for on a lot of ASAs  Also when I was playing pb I would turn off the ASA and then fire the marker (empty hopper of course) a few times til the built up pressure was gone...seems like you can just turn off the ASA without turning off your NV and wait a few minutes for the remaining pressure to continue its journey through the lines and into the tank.


Yes but remember most of these people are not paintballers. Don't want anyone to snickers on there self when they just go and unscrew it after they turn the asa off lol


----------



## Burks

Dicks charged $6 for 20-24oz tanks to be filled in my area.

I ordered a new tank off eBay, $20 vs $35 in stores.


----------



## jasonh

daniel89 said:


> Yes but remember most of these people are not paintballers. Don't want anyone to snickers on there self when they just go and unscrew it after they turn the asa off lol


Honestly it'll do it no matter how it's mounted I would think. I'm surprised nobody has had their ASA/NV go flying while unscrewing the bottle  (or, if it did happen they didn't tell us)


----------



## Blackstar65

I am getting ready to build one once my parts get here. I plan on running it through a new Ion reg I had laying around. I will be placing the reg between the bottle and the needle valve. Since it's a LP reg with a max out put of 200 psi I will use the reg to back the pressure down two about 100 psi and fine tune it with a needle valve. I bought a Taam Rio single Co2 controller used and that will be my bottle hook up.


----------



## g33tar

Just thought Id swing in and say I finally went and got my tank refilled this afternoon after 5 full months of use at about 2 bps in my 24oz tank. 
The gauge was still at about 100 psi and putting out bubbles, but I had some extra time and figured I'd keep myself busy. Im sure it would have lasted another week at least.

Cost me a whopping 4.50 to get refilled...I didnt realize co2 refills were so affordable... I figured it would be like 15 or something.

I think we should start a Jaggedfury appreciation fan club similiar to the filter pimp clubs.


----------



## daniel89

jasonh said:


> Honestly it'll do it no matter how it's mounted I would think. I'm surprised nobody has had their ASA/NV go flying while unscrewing the bottle  (or, if it did happen they didn't tell us)


Totally agree it would happen no matter how it was mounted i just wanted to throw it out there as i had a tank brust out the threads while i was unscrewing it and it hit the ground and the brust disk went pop and it went crazy.


----------



## rekles75

g33tar said:


> Just thought Id swing in and say I finally went and got my tank refilled this afternoon after 5 full months of use at about 2 bps in my 24oz tank.
> The gauge was still at about 100 psi and putting out bubbles, but I had some extra time and figured I'd keep myself busy. Im sure it would have lasted another week at least.
> 
> Cost me a whopping 4.50 to get refilled...I didnt realize co2 refills were so affordable... I figured it would be like 15 or something.
> 
> I think we should start a Jaggedfury appreciation fan club similiar to the filter pimp clubs.



Is that 5 Months 24 hours a day without a solenoid?

Does everyone pretty much run their setup without a solenoid?


----------



## g33tar

rekles75 said:


> Is that 5 Months 24 hours a day without a solenoid?
> 
> Does everyone pretty much run their setup without a solenoid?


Yea no solenoid here. I run it all day 95% of the time. Ill turn it off at night if Im feeling fancy.


----------



## Jaggedfury

coldmantis said:


> anyone had an issue with the swagelok closing, I have 3 of them and one seems to be closing on me, maybe I wrenched the nut below the turn knob too tight?


Never had a problem with a Swagelok Needle Valve. Used 4 of them on 4 setups. Sold those and still til this day still using 1 of the Swagelok Needle Valve. You have to keep in mind, just because it's a higher grade brand Needle Valve, doesn't mean it doesn't have problem. Ditch it and get a new one after trying to fix it the best you can. 



jasonh said:


> Honestly it'll do it no matter how it's mounted I would think. I'm surprised nobody has had their ASA/NV go flying while unscrewing the bottle (or, if it did happen they didn't tell us)


I think I should of written or stated a more detailed instructions. Like baby steps. 

As mentioned before. If you're going to remove your Paintball Co2 tank. Follow the steps in order below.

1. Turn Needle Valve fully closed.
2. Twist the Top "Knob" on the ASA On/Off Valve fully upward or out depending on your ASA On/Off Valve.
3. Slight open the Needle Valve back up to release the remaining pressure build up in the ASA On/Off Valve's Chamber. Wait until the pressure Gauge drops to 0 psi.
4. Lift the Paintball Co2 Tank up off the ground and twist it off. OR, twist off the ASA On/Off Valve. 

The remaining pressure that's in the ASA On/Off Valve Chamber will not blow the ASA On/Off Valve off the Pin Valve on the Paintball Co2 Tank.



rekles75 said:


> Is that 5 Months 24 hours a day without a solenoid?
> 
> Does everyone pretty much run their setup without a solenoid?


Not that many people are running a solenoid with these setups. I've gotten 3 people that uses a Solenoid on it and it was in Canada. Not sure how Canadian spec solenoids fuctionally is.

I run it 24/7 x 3 Setup. 



g33tar said:


> Just thought Id swing in and say I finally went and got my tank refilled this afternoon after 5 full months of use at about 2 bps in my 24oz tank.
> The gauge was still at about 100 psi and putting out bubbles, but I had some extra time and figured I'd keep myself busy. Im sure it would have lasted another week at least.
> 
> Cost me a whopping 4.50 to get refilled...I didnt realize co2 refills were so affordable... I figured it would be like 15 or something.
> 
> I think we should start a Jaggedfury appreciation fan club similiar to the filter pimp clubs.


Awesome! Thanks for sticking it through and keeping track of months. I remembered your post back in the days.. we'll 5-6 months ago lol.

These setup will last, will save you money. Considering that you set it up right and not half ass it. Pardon my speech lol. Do it right the first time. 

No fan club needed. So how about nominations for President like you mentioned months ago lol.


----------



## dZilla

So these are the two types of Watts needle valvles that are on the homedepot.ca website...

But both only state a working pressure of 75psi?

Anyone in Canada find where to get these?


----------



## Jaggedfury

dZilla said:


> So these are the two types of Watts needle valvles that are on the homedepot.ca website...
> 
> But both only state a working pressure of 75psi?
> 
> Anyone in Canada find where to get these?


If you're referring to the latest setups for the past 2.5 months, they are not Watts Needle Valve.

The reason, I ventured out and experimented with different Needle Valve is due to some folks here having problems with the Watts Needle Valve. Some worked fine and some didn't.

I am not sure if these were bad batches made and distributed to different distributors.

No bad words against Watt's line of products. I have seen their line of Regulator as well. Just haven't found the right couplers to mate onto the Regulator. 

The Needle Valve I uses in Option #3 and #4 are bought from a Mom and Pop shops locally owned here in town. There's 4 of them within a 20 mile radius. They are not available anywhere else beside there. Although I understand that there are Needle Valves that looks the same and such being sold elsewhere, those have not been tested by myself so I can't say.

I got numerous response from employees and manager as well that the Needle Valve they provide will handle my setup. I have brought my setup into the store and showed them the projected Goal that I would like to achieve. Explain the trapped pressure amount and so fort. They assured me that the Needle Valve will tolerate it with no problem. I highly trust it and been using 2 of the Option #3 setup myself. 

Down to technical aspect of the specs on the Needle Valve. I wouldn't be able to tell you. If you don't half as a job and make sure things are screwed on tight you will not have any problems. Do it right the first time so you don't 'have to fiddle with it down the line.


----------



## sailnut

<
Cost me a whopping 4.50 to get refilled...I didnt realize co2 refills were so affordable...>

Here on Staten Island, NY fire extinguisher and industrial gas suppliers are charging $4/lb. The local painball operation is the same. As best I can determine its universal in the city


----------



## rekles75

OK, I set everything up. I teflon taped the Needle Valve, tighten the screw for the CO2 tubing. Connected everything to the paintball cylinder and put the diffusser in the tank. When I turn the regulator and the needle valve on the CO2 tube blasted off the diffusser and released all my CO2 in the tank. The PSI on the tank was 800psi, right at the end of the green marking. What went wrong?


----------



## daniel89

rekles75 said:


> OK, I set everything up. I teflon taped the Needle Valve, tighten the screw for the CO2 tubing. Connected everything to the paintball cylinder and put the diffusser in the tank. When I turn the regulator and the needle valve on the CO2 tube blasted off the diffusser and released all my CO2 in the tank. The PSI on the tank was 800psi, right at the end of the green marking. What went wrong?


Sounds like you turned the needle valve to fast or it failed either way i would suggest finding a new needle valve. Correct me if i am wrong here guys.


----------



## g33tar

Yea sounds like you twisted it too far. With my needle valve, to get it to run at about 1-2 bps, its literally just a smidge more than the closed position. 

Like, if closed is 0% and wide open is 100%, 2bps is probably 1% for me.


----------



## HolyAngel

g33tar said:


> Yea sounds like you twisted it too far. With my needle valve, to get it to run at about 1-2 bps, its literally just a smidge more than the closed position.
> 
> Like, if closed is 0% and wide open is 100%, 2bps is probably 1% for me.


+1 that's exactly how it is. If the tube blew off, it sounds more like you didn't have it seated in the needle valve properly. I would check that. It shouldnt blow out or be able to even be pulled out once it's properly seated in the nv.


----------



## rekles75

OK so I tightened the regulator more onto the cyclinder and the pressure is back to 800psi, so I didnt lose all the CO2 in the tank "WHEW" 

But now as I am fine tuning to try and get 1-2 BPS I hear the CO2 either leaking from the NV at where the tubing comes out or either I hear it releasing thru the CO2 tubing. I was going to put some soapy water on it to see if it was a leak but I had to leave to go to work. 

Either way should I be hearing the CO2 pass thru the CO2 hose? Also should the regulator be completely open and then the NV at barely open or should they both just be a hair open. I am used to my full size dual stage regs and they let me know how much to open the reg. Even when I had the Red sea PB setup a few years ago it was 2 stage.


----------



## rekles75

Oh if I missed any of this in this post already I apologize I skimmed thru the other 91 pages and I might have even skipped a few pages.


----------



## g33tar

Welp, if you're hearing the co2 at the regulator, you've probably got a leak. The soapy water thing works, but IMO, just stick the whole thing into a bucket of water or a bathtub. Youll quickly see where the leaks at, and its a less sticky option. 

As for the tightnesses, Im not sure about you're regulator, but I just twist mine until the pressure registers on my gauge, and I stop there. Then fine tune it on the needle valve from there. 

-Alex


----------



## rekles75

I have the Reg that Jaggedfury is selling in the SNS. 

So you dont adjust the pressure at all on your reg?


----------



## Jaggedfury

If there is hissing sound, there is definitely a leak. The the hissing sound is coming from the ceramic glass diffuser, once submersed and fully functional, that's common. Using low bps count will often time result in hissing sound from the ceramic glass diffuser.

You should not be hearing anything pass through the setup. Only noise if any will be at the diffuser end while the co2 gas is passing through the diffuser.

You have a leak, I'm very sure of it. 

If you happen to screw up during installation, it would most like be at the part where you wrench down the Needle Valve's Nut that the Co2 Tubing goes there. The "Compression Ring" is what I"m referring to.

Submerse it into a bucket of water and observe it for a few minutes. If any even 1 tiny slow bubble forms, your Needle Valve will not hold steady pressure.

If the "Compression Ring" is already "Damaged", due to not installing it right the first time. Referenced the first page, first picture of this entire thread. Photos are given and steps as well.

Replacement "Compression Ring" can be bought at Homedepot for less than $2 dollars for 3 "Compression Rings" to a package.

The ASA On/Off Valve does not need to be screwed all the way down onto the Paintball Co2 Pin Valve Thread. When you're attaching the ASA On/Off Valve onto the Paintball Co2 Pin Valve, you should be observing the Gauge at the same time. Once the Gauge accepts the release Co2 gas pressure that is released by the Pin Valve, you can stop screwing the ASA On/Off Valve. Go ahead and slightly turn open your Needle Valve. Dump the setup in water and observe for leak.

Water will not get into the Gauge, Will not get into the ASA On/Off Valve, and will not make anything malfunction. Wipe dry afterward.


----------



## rekles75

Jaggedfury said:


> If there is hissing sound, there is definitely a leak. The the hissing sound is coming from the ceramic glass diffuser, once submersed and fully functional, that's common. Using low bps count will often time result in hissing sound from the ceramic glass diffuser.
> 
> You should not be hearing anything pass through the setup. Only noise if any will be at the diffuser end while the co2 gas is passing through the diffuser.
> 
> You have a leak, I'm very sure of it.
> 
> If you happen to screw up during installation, it would most like be at the part where you wrench down the Needle Valve's Nut that the Co2 Tubing goes there. The "Compression Ring" is what I"m referring to.
> 
> Submerse it into a bucket of water and observe it for a few minutes. If any even 1 tiny slow bubble forms, your Needle Valve will not hold steady pressure.
> 
> If the "Compression Ring" is already "Damaged", due to not installing it right the first time. Referenced the first page, first picture of this entire thread. Photos are given and steps as well.
> 
> Replacement "Compression Ring" can be bought at Homedepot for less than $2 dollars for 3 "Compression Rings" to a package.
> 
> The ASA On/Off Valve does not need to be screwed all the way down onto the Paintball Co2 Pin Valve Thread. When you're attaching the ASA On/Off Valve onto the Paintball Co2 Pin Valve, you should be observing the Gauge at the same time. Once the Gauge accepts the release Co2 gas pressure that is released by the Pin Valve, you can stop screwing the ASA On/Off Valve. Go ahead and slightly turn open your Needle Valve. Dump the setup in water and observe for leak.
> 
> Water will not get into the Gauge, Will not get into the ASA On/Off Valve, and will not make anything malfunction. Wipe dry afterward.




Thanks, I will be dropping on a bucket to test for leaks when I get off work. 

I read the 1st page and followed the instructions but around page 42 or so I skipped to close to the end of this thread and since the regulators were different from the one on page 1 I thought I had missed something.


----------



## Jaggedfury

rekles75 said:


> Thanks, I will be dropping on a bucket to test for leaks when I get off work.
> 
> I read the 1st page and followed the instructions but around page 42 or so I skipped to close to the end of this thread and since the regulators were different from the one on page 1 I thought I had missed something.


All ASA On/Off Valve functions the same way. As you noticed from reading the first few dozen of pages, My ASA On/Off Valve at the time was not the one I offered. They were brand names one and cost around $40-$60 dollars each. As far as functionally, it's all the same. It's just the design, texture, color, and brand that you're paying for. I have gotten rid of all those already since showing those setup, people have been mimicing the same ASA On/Off Valve that I used and complained about the pricing. I decided to get rid of it and stoop down low to the supply and demand of what people will actually play for a ASA On/Off Valve, so that where I opt'ed to get the low cost ASA On/Off Valve that is being offered now. 

Check for leaks, you'll be surprised. The instructions to check for leaks are also noted down within the first few pages of the beginning of this threads.


----------



## Bimmer

Ok, it's been some time since I've been on here but that's because I was moving. I now have the 72-gallon setup with heat, lights and filter running. I just added 60# of Eco-Complete and I'm going to top that off with gravel. As soon as I add the gravel, I have some jewel cichlids I'm going to use to cycle the tank. Now the questions.

1. Is one 24 oz CO2 tank adequate for my aquarium?
2. Best method of introducing the CO2? Diffuser? Run it through my biofilter?
3. How long after setting the tank up should I wait to add plants?
4. Do I introduce CO2 immediately upon planting or do I wait a bit?

I forgot to mention I do have an RO filter system and so my tanks are starting off with great water.

Thanks folks!


----------



## maxima308

Has anyone ran a tank dry yet?

If this setup operates anything like a paintball marker there is sure to be a end of tank dump. Those that have played paintball should know what i'm talking about. 

Perhaps a better quality valve would help? Not to ridicule the Home Depot one but I'm sure it's not as good as a Parker, Swagelok, or Ideal valve...


----------



## Jaggedfury

Bimmer said:


> Ok, it's been some time since I've been on here but that's because I was moving. I now have the 72-gallon setup with heat, lights and filter running. I just added 60# of Eco-Complete and I'm going to top that off with gravel. As soon as I add the gravel, I have some jewel cichlids I'm going to use to cycle the tank. Now the questions.
> 
> 1. Is one 24 oz CO2 tank adequate for my aquarium?
> 2. Best method of introducing the CO2? Diffuser? Run it through my biofilter?
> 3. How long after setting the tank up should I wait to add plants?
> 4. Do I introduce CO2 immediately upon planting or do I wait a bit?
> 
> I forgot to mention I do have an RO filter system and so my tanks are starting off with great water.
> 
> Thanks folks!


1. I don't see why not. I plan to use a 24 oz Co2 tank on a 120gallon tank in the making. Another thing to consider is your plant load. Low,Medium,High light demanding plants will need high Co2 level.
2. That can't be answered, but I personally like it through the ceramic glass diffusers. Looks more professional, clean, and looks great.
3. You can add it right away, or wait. All up to you.
4. Personally myself, I inject it right away. Staying at higher bps then bring it down within the 2nd week. I have green water at first too, it then disappear within days of setup.

RO or not, the above answered will still work the same.



maxima308 said:


> Has anyone ran a tank dry yet?
> 
> If this setup operates anything like a paintball marker there is sure to be a end of tank dump. Those that have played paintball should know what i'm talking about.
> 
> Perhaps a better quality valve would help? Not to ridicule the Home Depot one but I'm sure it's not as good as a Parker, Swagelok, or Ideal valve...


I ran 3 setups to near 50psi. Not totally dry. 50psi is still a great amount of pressure left. For people not running a check valve, the 50psi mark will still prevent water to siphon backward into the PB tank.

I stated numerous times that this isn't a setup made in stone. There are many different better or worst Needle Valves out there. The thing is, people are afraid to purchase and try it out. Although, less than 2 dozen of the folks here with the PB setup are using the Swagelok Needle Valve. Some do have problems with the Swagelok Needle Valve.

Given the size of the needed Needle Valve to fit, you're all welcome to experiment by yourself with different Needle Valve as well.

As long as one side of the Needle Valve is 1/8 NPT, it will thread onto the ASA On/Off Valve.

Needle Valve comes in 1/8 NPT, 3/4 NPT, 1/2 NPT, 1/4 NPT 1 NPT and so forth. If deciding to not go with the 1/8 NPT, you will need reducers and step-up couplers to make the fitting work. As far as Needle Valve functioning to where you can fine tune, that you will have to experiment with and let us know.


----------



## damenblankenship

Is a fill adapter the same as on/off valve?


----------



## PRSRocker3390

Anyone know what swagelok model needle valves work? I found the swagelok B-OVM2-BKB which is 1/8" male NPT, would that work? It has threads on both sides of the valve. I know nothing about needle valves but do you need to attach a tube compression fitting? I saw that online and thought i needed it. I'm confused as to how the tubing connects to that valve if so. I want to possibly experiment and get a different valve like a swagelok cause of their high ratings and some aren't priced bad at all. Any answers will help. 

Last quick question is what is the point of the regulator body on the normal full size co2 regulators you see being sold for co2 cylinders? If you can make a regulator like this for less money, why arent people doing it? Is it not as safe or something?


----------



## sailnut

This thread is devoted to FLOW regulators were the the flow rate is controlled via a needle valve. The objects with the 2 gauges which attach to commercial CO2 tanks are PRESSURE regulators They control the pressure of the gas delivered to the diffuser.

From the diffusers point of view the result is pretty much the same (in a given time a fixed volume of gas is disbursed). However from a mechanical point of view its difficult to control the gas flow at a working pressure of 800psi rather then the 30/40psi provided by a pressure regulator.


----------



## PRSRocker3390

So pretty much, using the ASA valve method, we are just working with a higher pressure than with the commercial regulator. 

Anyone with comments on the swagelok needle valve. I found that I'll need a watts A29 and A706 to make it work which are only about 6 bucks.


----------



## idex

PRSRocker3390 said:


> So pretty much, using the ASA valve method, we are just working with a higher pressure than with the commercial regulator.
> 
> Anyone with comments on the swagelok needle valve. I found that I'll need a watts A29 and A706 to make it work which are only about 6 bucks.


I just picked up those two parts this morning from HD.


----------



## PRSRocker3390

I picked up the coupler but the one part, a29, I didn't see how it would work. I'm not very experienced with this stuff at all. Would one of those 1/8 to hose barb adapters be a better idea. Just curious, if not I'll pick up the a29.


----------



## Betta Maniac

Ok, after much cursing and taping and wrenching my tank is up and running. Yea! I don't seem to be able to get adjust the flow between lots of bubbles and closed though . . . I'm going to wait a few hours and see what the drop checker says about the flow.


----------



## WaterLily

Thank you for this tutorial! I'm just trying to get back into planting my tanks, and am more positive about the possibility of using CO2. Looking forward to trying it!


----------



## Jaggedfury

damenblankenship said:


> Is a fill adapter the same as on/off valve?


No, it's not the same.



PRSRocker3390 said:


> Anyone know what swagelok model needle valves work? I found the swagelok B-OVM2-BKB which is 1/8" male NPT, would that work? It has threads on both sides of the valve. I know nothing about needle valves but do you need to attach a tube compression fitting? I saw that online and thought i needed it. I'm confused as to how the tubing connects to that valve if so. I want to possibly experiment and get a different valve like a swagelok cause of their high ratings and some aren't priced bad at all. Any answers will help.
> 
> Last quick question is what is the point of the regulator body on the normal full size co2 regulators you see being sold for co2 cylinders? If you can make a regulator like this for less money, why arent people doing it? Is it not as safe or something?


You are correct on the Swagelok Needle Valve as far as part number. Don't plan to get these locally as they have to be order or unless you find a Swagelok Local Vendors that carries their product lines.

You can go several ways as far as coupling the co2 hose on the output end of a Needle Valve. The setup is not set in stone. You can bypass all the compression ring type output connectors and use the Barb option as well.

Keep in mind your Swagelok will be 1/8''by1/8''. Your Co2 tubing research is up to you to find out what fits the Swagelok 1/8''. 

Won't be able to answer your Regulator. As far as safety, you're dealing with pressurized gas, just be careful and don't half ass something that needs to be tighten down. These setup are safe by my opinions, although I know there are some picky people out there and such as well. So they might look towards a different way and nit pick on every little tiny specs and so forth.

If you're scared of trying this, then don't. Fork up the money and get the bigger system. I'm not saying they can't fail. A regulator is being tested in the process of this setup. Haven't gotten around to it. The first Regulator I ordered, turns out not being a Regulator so I put another order for a different type of Regulator from a very known reputable company.



PRSRocker3390 said:


> So pretty much, using the ASA valve method, we are just working with a higher pressure than with the commercial regulator.
> 
> Anyone with comments on the swagelok needle valve. I found that I'll need a watts A29 and A706 to make it work which are only about 6 bucks.


That is correct. The Swagelok can work with the above mentioned parts. Although you can switch it also to Barb fitting as the output. Best thing is to take your Needle Valve of choice and go to the Plumbing department of Homedepot and I'm pretty sure you'll be able to come up with something. 

If there is a Output Nipple Ring Connector that cost $14.80 and the Barb to tube fitting cost $2.40.. I have a good feeling you're going to go with the Barb to tube fitting......



WaterLily said:


> Thank you for this tutorial! I'm just trying to get back into planting my tanks, and am more positive about the possibility of using CO2. Looking forward to trying it!


It's very useful, people have and still have great results as of it. Try it out.


----------



## PRSRocker3390

So the swagelok has a 1/8 size, wont regular silicone tubing fit that? What size is your standard silicone airline tubing and what size does the end have to be when I'm buying the compression nut or barb fitting, etc. Like 1/8,3/8, 1/4?


----------



## Jaggedfury

If you're referring to Swagelok B-OVM2-BKB Needle Valve, its both threads are 1/8'' in size. 

When looking for a output tube connector type ordeal. Make sure you look for 1/8'' Nut. The 1/8'' Nut is needed in order to screw onto the above Needle Valve used.

Referencing the 3rd item on the picture as a example. Watts A-15LF is a 1/4'' x 1/8''.
This is used on Needle Valve that is 1/8'' x 1/4''. 1/4'' being as the Male output thread which the A-15LF has a 1/4'' Female Thread to thread onto the 1/4'' output thread of the Female side. 

The Swagelok won't be able to use this part number because the Swagelok is 1/8'' to 1/8''. If you do want this Nipple type Tube connector, look for in a 1/8'' x 1/8'' size. I'm sure Homedepot has it.









You can also also use this Barb connector also. You will have to look for it yourself at Homedepot. I have not gotten a part number down, but 3-4 people are using it with this setup as well. Again, since the Swagelok is 1/8'' x 1/8'', you will need to find a 1/8'' Barb to tubing connector. This is a photo of what it looks like.









As far as co2 tubing size, I couldn't tell you. It just all depends on what you decide to get. I don't recall standard aquarium air tubing size. Most people don't, we just buy it and plug it in to our air pumps. Either way, using standard air tubing size for a co2 gas setup is not the way to go. The standard air tubing size can burst. Use co2 gas tubing is highly recommended. 

Keep in mind, Homedepot's smaller size Co2 tubing that they carry is SVEB10 or SVEB20. 10 is for 10 feet, 20 is for 20 feet. 

If you're going to buy the Compression Ring setup, this is all based on what Output coupler you buy. Compression Ring itself, cylinder ring inside the nut, comes in 1/4'', 3/4'' and also 1/4''. The Compression Ring it used in conjunction with a Output coupler. 

When you get your Swagelok Needle Valve, take it to Homedepot and head over to the plumbing department and start ripping connectors that will have a female end which needs to be 1/8'' to thread onto the Swagelok Output thread. That's the best bet, I'm sure you'll be able to figure it out from there as far as a Output tubing connector piece.


----------



## Betta Maniac

Question: I've been running my paintball for about 24 hours now (with an airstone/pump overnight) and I've yet to see the drop checker change color. I've remade the solution, as the first one just sat at dark blue, but now it's just sitting at dark green. I've got a constant stream of little bubbles coming out of the diffuser (just like the one in the tank on page one of this thread), but I can't for the life of me manage to count the bps. The fish are fine. Not gasping or hanging out at the top. Do I just keep turning it up until I get a pale green/yellow? How strong is the stream of bubble you're all used to seeing out of your diffuser?


----------



## Jaggedfury

If this is your first co2 gas setup, give it an 48 hour period being on to see the present of co2 in your tank. Please double check your solution to be sure it's made right for the drop checker.

The stream of bubbles would look something like this. This is my other setup.


----------



## Cboss

I've just set up my first paintball CO2 system and am having problems adjusting my FABCO NV-55 needle valve. When I initially set the system up, I adjusted the needle valve until I was getting about 1/2 bps. Now, I would like to bump that up to 1 bps or so, but when I turn the knob on the needle valve the bubble rate does not change. Any suggestions on how to fix this?


----------



## Betta Maniac

Thanks for responding! I followed the directions here on TPT for making it (measured the baking soda with a scale, used distilled water, etc.). I'll just sit tight.


----------



## PRSRocker3390

Jaggedfury said:


> If you're going to buy the Compression Ring setup, this is all based on what Output coupler you buy. Compression Ring itself, cylinder ring inside the nut, comes in 1/4'', 3/4'' and also 1/4''. The Compression Ring it used in conjunction with a Output coupler.


That part confused me a bit, I didnt understand what you meant. But the rest of the post was fine and greatly helpful. I'm going to pm you about the asa now. I'm guessing also use teflon tape with every connection including between couples, needle valves, the asa, etc. Thanks again, you really are helping the community out in a big way!


----------



## Jaggedfury

Cboss said:


> I've just set up my first paintball CO2 system and am having problems adjusting my FABCO NV-55 needle valve. When I initially set the system up, I adjusted the needle valve until I was getting about 1/2 bps. Now, I would like to bump that up to 1 bps or so, but when I turn the knob on the needle valve the bubble rate does not change. Any suggestions on how to fix this?


*
I think you would want to address that in the "Equipment" Section of the forum, They deal more with the Equipments used in the Standard 2lbs Co2 tanks and upwards. You'll get a faster answer there. As to I have no experiences with FABCO Needle Valves.*



Betta Maniac said:


> Thanks for responding! I followed the directions here on TPT for making it (measured the baking soda with a scale, used distilled water, etc.). I'll just sit tight.


*Give it 48 hours, and check your drop checker again.*



PRSRocker3390 said:


> That part confused me a bit, I didnt understand what you meant. But the rest of the post was fine and greatly helpful. I'm going to pm you about the asa now. I'm guessing also use teflon tape with every connection including between couples, needle valves, the asa, etc. Thanks again, you really are helping the community out in a big way!


*
Didn't meant to confuse you. I can break it down to a simple more description of what I meant.

For example..

A 1/8'' x 1/8'' Needle Valve will have a 1/8'' Compression Ring at the End Output of the Needle Valve + Nut (That's if you want to use your Co2 tubing to a Compression Ring setup)

A 1/8'' x 1/4'' Needle Valve will have a 1/4'' Compression Ring at the End of the Output of the Needle Valve + Nut (That's if you want to use your Co2 tubing to a Compression Ring setup)

Basically what I"m trying to say it, If you're going to use a "Comression Ring setup" on the end Output of Any Needle Valve, make sure that Compression Ring is made for the End Output Needle Valve's Thread size.

If you have a 1/8'' x 1/8'' Swagelok Needle Valve, obviously you can't 'use a 1/4'' Compression Ring on the End Output of the Needle Valve. 

You will want to use a 1/8'' Compresison Ring + 1/8'' Nut. These two usually comes in a set. Same size Compression Ring and Nut.

I think that might be a easier understanding. lol*


----------



## PRSRocker3390

It was easier, thanks! I'll post pics of my setup with the swagelok if you'd like, to help contribute to this thread for anyone else who has the same thing as me.


----------



## Jaggedfury

PRSRocker3390 said:


> It was easier, thanks! I'll post pics of my setup with the swagelok if you'd like, to help contribute to this thread for anyone else who has the same thing as me.


*If you want to mimic a setup I have with using the Swagelok Needle Valve, that's fine too. Here is what it looks like. From looking at it, you should be able to find the couplers and fitting at Homedepot. The first picture is used with Option #2. The second picture is used with Option #1. 
*
*
1st Picture*









*2nd Picture*










*Thanks
Jase*


----------



## PRSRocker3390

Awesome pic! Thanks! PS, I'm assuming that ending piece is one of those 1/8 x 1/8 compression pieces you mentioned.


----------



## Jaggedfury

*Nope, the end piping on my Swagelok Needle Valve are actually Nipple to Co2 tube connection. I forgot the price of it, but Homedepot carries it. It's much more easier to install.

If you go this route, Just purchase the end piece. It comes with the Female coupler to thread onto the End Output of the Swagelok Needle Valve and also come with a Nipple and Nut.

Installation is pretty easy. Slide the Nut first onto the Co2 tubing then push the Nipple directly into the Co2 tubing as far as it will go then aim the Female Coupler onto the Swagelok Needle Valve thread and screw it in by hand then tighten it down with wrench. Sorry about the run on sentences but you get the idea. Use Teflon Tape on the threads is a must.

The extra pieces to extend the Swagelok Needle Valve further down the path is not needed. Just nice to have it so the Swagelok Needle Valve arm doesn't hit the ASA On/Off Valve. The Swagelok Needle Valve "T" handle adjuster arm is a bit large and long.*


----------



## PRSRocker3390

That sounds cool, I look for that piece cause it looks easy enough and efficient. I'll post the part number on here if I find it so others can use it.


----------



## damenblankenship

Well, that's it for me!3 attempts to get this system to work, and the only conclusion I can come to is it's not safe. These needle valves simply aren't made to withstand high pressure. I'm gonna spend a little more and get a system that's made to do what I want. Anyway that's my two cents. Good luck to all!


----------



## PRSRocker3390

What needle valve did you use and what was the safety issue out of curiousity? 

Btw, what do you all recommend. Should I buy one 24 oz tank or two 20 oz tanks. If I get the 24oz, its a bit more so I only want to get one for now until I can buy another one a little bit on. My main question is do most of you just run one tank, and then fill it when it goes out. Or do you use one and keep one filled and ready for use so you can just switch it out immediately and get the old one filled. You know, just always having one on hand. I'm sure its safe just to store a filled cylinder, correct?

Also, they are Pure Energy brand co2 tanks, any feedback or does the brand not really matter?


----------



## damenblankenship

Not sure what the brand is, it's the second one I've tried. The problems I've had is to much pressure on the valve so it won't hold steady. The other issues are I tried to use a check valve and it blew apart every time. Twice the hose blew off the diffuser and once from the needle valve itself. I know others have had success with this set up and that's great, Im just convinced it needs a good pressure control gauge.


----------



## Jaggedfury

PRSRocker3390 said:


> What needle valve did you use and what was the safety issue out of curiousity?
> 
> Btw, what do you all recommend. Should I buy one 24 oz tank or two 20 oz tanks. If I get the 24oz, its a bit more so I only want to get one for now until I can buy another one a little bit on. My main question is do most of you just run one tank, and then fill it when it goes out. Or do you use one and keep one filled and ready for use so you can just switch it out immediately and get the old one filled. You know, just always having one on hand. I'm sure its safe just to store a filled cylinder, correct?
> 
> Also, they are Pure Energy brand co2 tanks, any feedback or does the brand not really matter?


*I'd go with the 24 oz over the 20 oz PB tank. 4 oz is alot at 1bps. It will give you nearly a few more weeks. 

You can either get a 9 oz tank as a spare tank, when it comes time to refilling or just use one tank.

If you do a research on PB tanks in the PB sport industry, of course you're going to have different sides of comments against a product. This is seen with majority of products being made. I myself use Pure Energy PB tank and is very happy with it. I trust it and will buy again. The Extreme Rage model made by Pure Energy is great too, It's the recently last PB tank that I bought less than 2 months ago. Great product. *


----------



## Jim Miller

And the refill price is the same at Dick's Sporting Goods for both 20 and 24oz at $3.99.

jim


----------



## PRSRocker3390

Cool, The idea of the getting a second small tank for in between refills makes perfect sense, Thanks!

Last question for now but ceramic diffusers, does it matter what size I get? I have one made for a 20 to 40 gallon tank that I used on my last tank but do I need to get a bigger one for a 75 gallon tank? Or do any of them work for 1-2 bps range? I'm going to run my diffuser at the bottom and it will be under my koralia so the bubbles get blown around more.


----------



## Jaggedfury

PRSRocker3390 said:


> Cool, The idea of the getting a second small tank for in between refills makes perfect sense, Thanks!
> 
> Last question for now but ceramic diffusers, does it matter what size I get? I have one made for a 20 to 40 gallon tank that I used on my last tank but do I need to get a bigger one for a 75 gallon tank? Or do any of them work for 1-2 bps range? I'm going to run my diffuser at the bottom and it will be under my koralia so the bubbles get blown around more.


*
If the ceramic diffuser is under your power head, I don't see a reason to upgrade the ceramic diffusers. I've used a Nano diffuser which was meant for a 5-10 gallon tank in a 20gallon long tank. Which is almost twice the size of a 10 gallon tank. Still got great results of co2 dispersement with the Nano diffuser.

Worst come to worst, try it out the way you have it setup for a few days to a week and if you're not satisfied, upgrade the ceramic glass diffuser of your choice. 

I would just keep it the original way and let it be. *


----------



## Betta Maniac

This may sound stupid, but can I use WD40 or Eheim lube on the needle valve? It's a little stiff, and last night I blew up (!!!) my glass diffuser when trying to adjust it (it suck and when it came loose it REALLY came loose).


----------



## Burks

Another possibly stupid question.

I have zero experience paintballing other than "Here, just aim and shoot" type games. 

To refill this CO2 tank, just take the tank, and only the tank, to a store and just ask to have it filled? Being a male and 25 I feel I shouldn't have to ask this.

Hope to have mine set up tomorrow. The paintball tank I got is a Gorilla, $20 off eBay brand new.



But as my mom says, "There aren't any stupid questions, but you may just get a smartass answer".


----------



## g33tar

Yep thats all you need. The tank and only the tank. And about 5 dollars.


----------



## Betta Maniac

Yep, just take the tank in. Cost me $3 to fill my new 20oz at Sports Authority.


----------



## Burks

g33tar said:


> Yep thats all you need. The tank and only the tank. And about 5 dollars.


But.....but........BUT......ok. Spot me a fiver?





Just kidding. Thanks. roud:


----------



## darkcrisis

*Advice*

This might have been posted before, but I thought it would be worth posting again. If it is in here, I must have missed the post.

I bought option #4 from Jagged and I am completely satisfied with the product! 

I only had one issue during setup:

I could NOT get the compression ring to stay straight. It kept pinching the CO2 line. I went to home depot and bought 3 more and bent all three of them.

I went back and spoke to a Home Depot employee. He showed me the *WATTS A-4 961-P Ander-Lign Compression Nut 1/4" OD w/Insert*. It was only about $3.00 and it gives a fool proof install (which I need!) After that the system is up and running. I did drop the CO2 difuser and it broke :angryfire


----------



## PRSRocker3390

I bought the watts A29 piece. Its screws into my female 1/8 coupler and i believe the other end with the nipple and compression nut is 1/4. I've used silicone tubing before on my last pressurized 5lb system and regulator and it worked awesome. I also have used the clippard co2 tubing before as well. But I used the silicone tubing just to see how it would fit, it slides through the nut easily and then gets difficult to put on the nipple but is possible. Then there is the 1/4 vinyl tubing at home depot and that can fit through the nut but with some good muscle. also it gets compressed a bit since the tubing is slightly larger than the hole in the nut. I avoided that tubing though because I remember from my past pressurized co2 experience, vinyl tubing is not that great. It supposedly loses co2 and degrades over a year from use with co2, the co2 is harsh on it. It can harden and crack. What kind of tubing should I use or what are you all using? Anyone using that part and if so, which tubing would fine?

I'm also assuming these tubings should all fit standard diffusers and check valves, since I want to use both of those of course.

Also is it possible that pressure could build up between parts causing a co2 pressure back up, like if the passage way for the co2 is not big enough for how much co2 pressure is coming out after the needle valve? I dont know, just a random thought. I assume with 1-2 bps not much could really build up and if it did, possible the hose or something would blow off i guess. Like I said, just random thought.

Thanks


----------



## Jaggedfury

Betta Maniac said:


> This may sound stupid, but can I use WD40 or Eheim lube on the needle valve? It's a little stiff, and last night I blew up (!!!) my glass diffuser when trying to adjust it (it suck and when it came loose it REALLY came loose).


*Slight adjustment is the key. No way should the tubing blow off at all. If so, you're cranking the adjustment too far on the "T" arm of the Needle Valve.
*



darkcrisis said:


> This might have been posted before, but I thought it would be worth posting again. If it is in here, I must have missed the post.
> 
> I bought option #4 from Jagged and I am completely satisfied with the product!
> 
> I only had one issue during setup:
> 
> I could NOT get the compression ring to stay straight. It kept pinching the CO2 line. I went to home depot and bought 3 more and bent all three of them.
> 
> I went back and spoke to a Home Depot employee. He showed me the *WATTS A-4 961-P Ander-Lign Compression Nut 1/4" OD w/Insert*. It was only about $3.00 and it gives a fool proof install (which I need!) After that the system is up and running. I did drop the CO2 difuser and it broke :angryfire


*Great photos. That is what I called a Nipple Nut. I have used this before on my Swagelok Needle Valve, since it has a 1/8'' Output on the Needle Valve side. I just find it to work better with the Swagelok Needle Valve than the 1/4'' Output Needle Valves.*



PRSRocker3390 said:


> I bought the watts A29 piece. Its screws into my female 1/8 coupler and i believe the other end with the nipple and compression nut is 1/4. I've used silicone tubing before on my last pressurized 5lb system and regulator and it worked awesome. I also have used the clippard co2 tubing before as well. But I used the silicone tubing just to see how it would fit, it slides through the nut easily and then gets difficult to put on the nipple but is possible. Then there is the 1/4 vinyl tubing at home depot and that can fit through the nut but with some good muscle. also it gets compressed a bit since the tubing is slightly larger than the hole in the nut. I avoided that tubing though because I remember from my past pressurized co2 experience, vinyl tubing is not that great. It supposedly loses co2 and degrades over a year from use with co2, the co2 is harsh on it. It can harden and crack. What kind of tubing should I use or what are you all using? Anyone using that part and if so, which tubing would fine?
> 
> I'm also assuming these tubings should all fit standard diffusers and check valves, since I want to use both of those of course.
> 
> Also is it possible that pressure could build up between parts causing a co2 pressure back up, like if the passage way for the co2 is not big enough for how much co2 pressure is coming out after the needle valve? I dont know, just a random thought. I assume with 1-2 bps not much could really build up and if it did, possible the hose or something would blow off i guess. Like I said, just random thought.
> 
> Thanks



*The 1/4'' Watts SVEB10 or SVEB20 Co2 Clear tubing will last a long time. I would say years. Its made to be used with Co2 chemical, liquids and gas. It even stated on the product description at the store. I used it way before I even came to this forum, and still use it today. No problem.

Can't say about the pressure being backed up. Only thing I would keep in mind is to not let the PB tank goes fully empty. Water from your tank can siphon backward depending on how low of a level you have your PB setup set at. I refill mines at 50 psi near empty. This is done to leave pressure still in the tank to offset the siphon of water. Just a precaution. Although a check valve in the direct output path will also be nice to have but is not needed.*


----------



## Stillboardin

Hey I've got a question for everybody that uses this setup.

About 6 weeks ago I set up this system with a 20oz tank I purchased off Amazon, an on/off with gauge, swagelok needle valve. I had it set up and running at about a bubble per second for the last 6 weeks until it ran out this last weekend. It had no leaks and worked great.
So I pull the bottle and take it to Sports Authority tonight to get it filled. They tell me that they can't get any CO2 in it. When they hook it to their fill hose and try to pressurize it it just dumps out the burst disk. They said they could only get a few ounces in.
I told them it had only been filled once before, by them, and was leak free for the last six weeks. They suggested maybe their fill system was bad.

I came home and thought maybe a few ounces would last a little while so I hooked up my on/off/needle valve setup to see if I could get any CO2 out of it. As soon as I opened the on/off it leaked bad out of the screw part of the on/off. I checked the o-rings and they looked fine.

So I wonder if anyone else has had the same issue that the tank worked fine and when you took the on/off off it acts like something broke.

This is the on/off I have


----------



## Buddha

Absolutely Great Write-Up!!!! Thanks!


----------



## h2oaggie

Check the pin valve on the tank, it is possible that the pin is bent to the side and is getting stuck and leaking before a good seal can be formed by the on/off adapter. If all the o-rings are fine, on both the tank and on/off, that's what I would guess. I had a similar thing happen with a tank when using an on/off identical to that (minus the gauge).


----------



## PRSRocker3390

Okay, using the watts a29, the nipple with compression nut, the watts tubing can fit through the nut, then can fit on the nipple, but once on the nipple, the nut cant be screwed back on, it won't fit and gets stuck. Should I just use small tubing? The aquarium size which can be bought in silicone or co2 proof kind, is 3/16" I believe. There should be no bad effects from the smaller tubing size, correct? That way, a standard aquarium check valve would fit that tubing. I'm also just not a fan of vinyl since most planted tank gurus would say it is bad for co2, silicone being better, and the special co2 tubing being the best.

Put all my pieces together. Wrapped every connection a couple times with Teflon tape. Is it possible to over tighten anything. I hand tightened everything pretty well. (i'm pretty strong with this kind of stuff) and used a wrench but didnt get much to budge with the crescent wrench, so I guess I did a good job. No way to tell until I fill the paintball tank and try it out but I want to figure out my hosing issue first.


----------



## Burks

Tank is up and operational! Took all of five minutes to do. Got it running about 1BPS in my 40g breeder. Will up it later if needed. I have all low light plants under a 96w PC in a horrid reflector.


----------



## .Mko.

hey jagged,

something wierd happened today as i was screwing on my on valve... the set up has been going strong for a couple of weeks now but all of a sudden when i screwed on the lid co2 started pouring out of the top knob... any suggestions?


----------



## .Mko.

similar problem to stillboardin


----------



## Kianna

.Mko. said:


> similar problem to stillboardin



Me too! I bought everything new, hooked it all up and it ran perfect for 6-8 weeks until it was time to refill the tank. I disconnected it at the tank/asa, refilled the tank and now when I try to re-connect it...co2 pours out the asa.
I've done 3 of these co2 tank setups without any problems but this is the first one to be refilled.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Stillboardin said:


> Hey I've got a question for everybody that uses this setup.
> 
> About 6 weeks ago I set up this system with a 20oz tank I purchased off Amazon, an on/off with gauge, swagelok needle valve. I had it set up and running at about a bubble per second for the last 6 weeks until it ran out this last weekend. It had no leaks and worked great.
> So I pull the bottle and take it to Sports Authority tonight to get it filled. They tell me that they can't get any CO2 in it. When they hook it to their fill hose and try to pressurize it it just dumps out the burst disk. They said they could only get a few ounces in.
> I told them it had only been filled once before, by them, and was leak free for the last six weeks. They suggested maybe their fill system was bad.
> 
> I came home and thought maybe a few ounces would last a little while so I hooked up my on/off/needle valve setup to see if I could get any CO2 out of it. As soon as I opened the on/off it leaked bad out of the screw part of the on/off. I checked the o-rings and they looked fine.
> 
> So I wonder if anyone else has had the same issue that the tank worked fine and when you took the on/off off it acts like something broke.
> 
> This is the on/off I have


*If your hydrodate is still within the 5 year hydro test date, it should of been able to be refill. If it is still under the hydrodate and they tell you it isn't able to be refill. You have the following to look at, which is the Paintball Co2 Tank itself.

- Examine Pin Valve 
- Examine O Ring
- Examine Burst Disc

The above items are all on the Paintball Co2 tank cylinder itself. It is not on the ASA On/Off Valve.

Now if you have a leak on the top knob there is 2 possible cause of this.

1. The Hex Thread on the Top Knob Underneath size is loose. Reference Photo Mark A below.

2. The two "O" on the "Depress Pin" which is within the ASA On/Off Valve might have rip or became defective over time. Reference Photo Mark B below.

Removeable or Installation

1. To remove/tighten the Hex Thread on the Top Knob Underside, use a Hex key that fits in that same Hex opening and Tighten it or Loosen it. (Often times comes when you over tighten the Top Knob down too far)

2. To examine the "Depress Pin" within the ASA On/Off Valve, twist off the Top Knob of the ASA On/Off Valve, Use a screw driver and poke downward and the "Depress Pin" should fall off. 

Those are the only two possible way for the co2 to leak from the Top Knob of the ASA On/Off Valve.

Note: If you put the Depress Ring back and it doesn't say in place, 100% the two "O" rings are bad. It can also be bad due to tiny rips and such as well which will result in leaks from the Top Knob.








*



.Mko. said:


> hey jagged,
> 
> something wierd happened today as i was screwing on my on valve... the set up has been going strong for a couple of weeks now but all of a sudden when i screwed on the lid co2 started pouring out of the top knob... any suggestions?


*Possible result of this, way over hand tighten down the Top Knob can cause the Hex screw underneath the Top Knob to loosen itself when you're loosening the Top Knob upon refill. 

If that isn't the cause, your last option left is the two "O" rings on the Depress Pin. 

Check these parts as I mentioned to Stillboardin.










Use the Gauge if you got one. When hand tighten down the Top Knob, observe the Gauge at the same time. When the Gauge Needle "Accepts" the Co2 gas pressure it will spring up to current presssure of the tank, at this point stop tightening down the Top Knob. It doesn't need to be fully screw down.

I haven't been on lately, Apologize for the late replies.*


----------



## Kianna

My Depress pin in the asa doesn't stay in...... so where do I find the 2 little o rings at? Since all my systems have the same black asa I better buy some of those too.

I already bought a bag of o rings for the tank. I'll check that screw in the top knob on the asa too.


----------



## Jaggedfury

The "O" rings, can be bought at your local Paintball Co2 Store. I'm not sure if Wal mart or other stores sells it. As this haven't happened to me. 

Best thing I would do is to use Yellowpages online and find a local Paintball Sport Store near you and get the parts there. Or you can order it online from different Paintball Sport Store.

The Hex Screw should be tight. Each and every one of them were double check by me for tightness. Although, I'm not aware of how strong everyone else's hands are, but it does get loosen when you tend to over tighten the Top Knob down too much. Overtime, it's just something to check. It's not like you're refilling your tank every week. It's just on the list of things to check 2-4 times a year. Just go easy on the Top Knob and use the Gauge for what it's design to do. Once the Gauge accepts the Co2 pressure, you can stop tightening down the Top Knob. = )


----------



## Jaggedfury

This setup works very well with Super Diffusers also. I hope this ends all the PM about if this setup works with the Super Diffusers or Atomic Diffusers whatever you want to call it.

Much thanks to g33tar for keeping me update with his setup. With his allowed permission, the Super Diffuser/Atomic Diffusers in action with the setup in Option #3.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KYQDDBjX5s

And No, I don't sell the Super Diffuser/Atomic Diffuser. If you really really really want one, and is not able to get one. Then you can PM me. I have my sources = )

Thanks
Jase


----------



## yogi1974

You can find the o-rings at HD or Lowes


----------



## PRSRocker3390

Any links or info on the tubing g33tar is using for the Atomic Diffuser?


----------



## Jaggedfury

PRSRocker3390 said:


> Any links or info on the tubing g33tar is using for the Atomic Diffuser?


Shoot him a PM yourself or I can ask him. He purchased my setup sometime last year, at that time I didn't provide any Co2 tubing.


----------



## Betta Maniac

Jaggedfury said:


> Slight adjustment is the key. No way should the tubing blow off at all. If so, you're cranking the adjustment too far on the "T" arm of the Needle Valve.


 
Guess I wasn’t clear. I didn’t blow the tubing off (if only!), I BLEW UP the glass diffuser. As in shattered into pieces. As in broke it. The needle value wouldn’t move at all, and when it did so much gas rushed through it just broke the diffuser into pieces inside the tank (yeah that was fun to clean up). 

I just want to know if it’s ok to add a dollop of lube or if I should get another, different needle valve?


----------



## Burks

Well I definitely know it is working well.

Came home to find all my fish at the surface and my WCM huddled together. So I shut off the CO2 and did a water change (been a while since I did one anyways). Also adding a small airstone.


----------



## PRSRocker3390

Anyone successfully just using a hose barb instead of compression nut after the needle valve? The watts compression nut is just giving me a hard time and no tubing is fitting on it properly, not even the watts tubing from HD.


----------



## Betta Maniac

I just had to use a wrench and REALLY close the nut (otherwise, yeah, the tubing wasn't getting caught). And if there's one think I can tell you, it's that my tubing is secure, LOL!


----------



## PRSRocker3390

The tubing is too thick, the nut wont fit over it to even be able to screw it on. I may try tygon tubing but I'm still deciding on what size I need. 

If I use a barb for 1/8 ID tubing, what size barb should I use? Also home depot doesn't sell a barb that fits into the 1/8 size threads we are using, the smallest is 1/4. Would there be any issue if I used a reducer fitting to go from 1/8 up to 1/4 thread size and then from there screw in the 1/4 threaded barb? Does going up in size affect pressure in anyway or no matter what size your fittings are, the pressure is all about how much co2 is being pumped through it?

Out of curiousity, what is the working pressure we are working with, with the paintball setup we are using? Would it be pretty much considered the full pressure of the co2 tank since there is no regulator like the full size co2 setups to lower the working pressure?


----------



## h2oaggie

> Would there be any issue if I used a reducer fitting to go from 1/8 up to 1/4 thread size and then from there screw in the 1/4 threaded barb? Does going up in size affect pressure in anyway or no matter what size your fittings are, the pressure is all about how much co2 is being pumped through it?


That is exactly what I have set up and it is working without any problems. I actually have a 1/8" barb attached to flexible PVC airline tubing (Lees stealth tubing). I can take a picture when I get home and show you my setup if you like.


----------



## PRSRocker3390

A pic is always appreciated. I found a 3/16 barb x 1/8 male NPT on ebay so I may use that with some Tygon 1/8 ID tubing. Sounds like it will work. But yes, the pic will still be cool. I would like to see a pic of someone else's barb setup!


----------



## Betta Maniac

I'm swapping out the needle value for one of the larger Swaglocks for sale in the SnS. Does anyone know if I can add in a solenoid like this one. Or does anyone have a recommendation for one?


----------



## h2oaggie

I have a 24 oz paintball tank, 32 degrees on/off ASA, stainless steel Swagelok needle valve (SS-OVM2-BKB), 1/8" to 1/4" reducer, then a 1/8" hose barb. Waiting for a gauge I ordered to put in the second 1/8" NPT on the ASA.


----------



## PRSRocker3390

Very cool! Thanks for sharing that. Btw, what size tubing is that and what mind may I ask?


----------



## h2oaggie

It is your standard airline tubing, which is 1/8" inside diameter. That particular tubing is Lees stealth airline tubing, made of flexible PVC and bought at petco.


----------



## milesm

h2oaggie said:


> It is your standard airline tubing, which is 1/8" inside diameter. That particular tubing is Lees stealth airline tubing, made of flexible PVC and bought at petco.


Sorry to hijack, but that lee's stealth tubing will collapse if there is any sort of vacuum in your lines. use their elite tubing. it's clear green and also made of pvc.


----------



## genEus

So, I thought my setup was awesome. I got it "right" on the first try. Made sure to teflon tape everything, tighten everything, and tested it in a bucket of water - NO leaks.

However, my first bottle emptied out in about a month. My current bottle is down to 200psi level after 2 weeks.

I did almost gas my fish twice in the last two weeks, by setting the bps to about 5-6 for 24 hours each time. But, would 48 hours of 6bps empty half the tank? The rest of the time my rate is about 1-2 bps.

I re-tested the connections again under water, and everything is solid! No leaks. The only thing I can blame now is the tubing, which I haven't tested. But, maybe it's normal to use this much, or no?


----------



## Jaggedfury

*At 1bps on a 24 oz PB tank. You can get 5-6 months.
At 2bps on a 24 oz PB tank. You can get 4-5 months.
At 3bps on a 24 oz PB tank. You can get 2-3 months.
At 4-5 bps on a 24 oz PB tank, You can get 1.5-2 months
At 6-8 bps on a 24 oz PB tank, You're looking at 1 month before refill. 

6 bps is alot. When this setup was rigged up last year, It was intended being cost effective for use under 3bps. I myself use no more than 2bps on 24 oz tank. Since I began to offer this here, it sky rocketed and people have wanted the same setup and want to have it inject co2 at 5-8 bps. A few people wanted this rate for 55gallons - 90 gallon tanks. 

The thing is, it's capable of doing this with no problem. The only thing is that it's going to empty quicker thus making refill more often. In a way you can say it still cost effective depending on how you inject co2 into your tank. Going with 1 Excel Bottle dosing for a 55gallon-90gallon tank in a month, will cost more than the refill of a 24 oz PB tank. 

The above situation you have experienced is correct. It's normal from the rate of bps that's being injected. 

The 2nd time around when refilling, you will get slightly a better more longer lasting time than the first time. Considering how many Co2 gas is lost when you first attempted to hook the rig up. Majority of the people either don't install it right, thus losing great amount of co2 gas before they actually got it to work right. I"m talking about over 100psi + lost. One person lost 400psi during initial first setup, then was able to get it to work fine.*


----------



## genEus

Jaggedfury said:


> At 1bps on a 24 oz PB tank. You can get 5-6 months.
> At 2bps on a 24 oz PB tank. You can get 4-5 months.
> At 3bps on a 24 oz PB tank. You can get 2-3 months.
> At 4-5 bps on a 24 oz PB tank, You can get 1.5-2 months
> At 6-8 bps on a 24 oz PB tank, You're looking at 1 month before refill.
> 
> 6 bps is alot. When this setup was rigged up last year, It was intended being cost effective for use under 3bps. I myself use no more than 2bps on 24 oz tank. Since I began to offer this here, it sky rocketed and people have wanted the same setup and want to have it inject co2 at 5-8 bps.
> 
> The thing is, it's capable of doing this with no problem. The only thing is that it's going to empty quicker thus making refill more often.
> 
> The above situation you have experienced is correct.


Yep. I just brought home a new refill, and dunked the entire unit under water, co2 tubing and all, NO LEAKS. I set it to go about 2bps now. We'll see how well it works.


----------



## Burks

So I'm having an issue with the fish still.

Tank:
40g breeder
96w 50/50 PC
Maybe 10-15 fast growing stems, with a bunch of Java Fern, Anubias, and Java Moss.

The tank is set between 1-2BPS. First couple days my fish became very lethargic and hung out near the surface in groups. Killed off two of my Kuhli Loaches (although I had already lost one before the CO2, thinking bad stock, no wonder they were cheap). So I stopped the CO2 for a bit. Fish returned to normal.

Added an airstone yesterday and restarted the CO2. Fish seem "better" but not "normal". Did do a large water change yesterday just to see if that helped, and I think it did.

Any suggestions?


----------



## Jim Miller

@Jagged

Interesting stats on bubbles and tank duration. My 24oz PB tank is running ~1bps into a 24" RG reactor and keeping the drop checker in my 90g medium green: about 20ppm.

It's just a temporary setup for me until I get my 20# tank working. 

Are there a lot of folks getting 5-6months on a 24oz at 1bps?

Thanks

Jim


----------



## Jaggedfury

Burks said:


> So I'm having an issue with the fish still.
> 
> Tank:
> 40g breeder
> 96w 50/50 PC
> Maybe 10-15 fast growing stems, with a bunch of Java Fern, Anubias, and Java Moss.
> 
> The tank is set between 1-2BPS. First couple days my fish became very lethargic and hung out near the surface in groups. Killed off two of my Kuhli Loaches (although I had already lost one before the CO2, thinking bad stock, no wonder they were cheap). So I stopped the CO2 for a bit. Fish returned to normal.
> 
> Added an airstone yesterday and restarted the CO2. Fish seem "better" but not "normal". Did do a large water change yesterday just to see if that helped, and I think it did.
> 
> Any suggestions?


*Use a drop checker to check the present of co2 in your tank. It's more of a accurate reading to whether there is too much co2 in present in your tank. This might be the cause of your gasping your fish... or it might not be since you had death before the setup. It's nice to have a drop checker if you have fish/shrimps in the tank. If one of your fish/shrimp is worth more than a drop checker, it's a wise decision.

Air stone and a way of filtration will help greatly. * 
*A 40gallon breeder tank is fairly large, at 1-2bps even left on 24 hours would not gasp your live stock. If you're air pump is adjustable, crank it up a bit and observe your fish.*


Jim Miller said:


> @Jagged
> Interesting stats on bubbles and tank duration. My 24oz PB tank is running ~1bps into a 24" RG reactor and keeping the drop checker in my 90g medium green: about 20ppm.
> 
> It's just a temporary setup for me until I get my 20# tank working.
> 
> Are there a lot of folks getting 5-6months on a 24oz at 1bps?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Jim


*I have asked members back last year who purchased these setup.. to keep track of their bps and refill time. That way I find a set point in refilling the tanks.

So far the 1bps at 24oz tank have been confirmed by myself and a member here. At 1bps left 24/7 will get you 5-6 months. Take in consideration, refill is done at 50psi near empty tank. The 50psi could have lasted another 7-14 days. That is why the ball park is 5-6 months.

I advise not to let the tank go completely down to 0 psi if it's still hooked up to a fish tank. Water might siphon backward. Check Valve might help but that's just a personal opinion of mines.

When it comes time to refilling, the refilling station will empty out your 50psi or left of the co2 gas. Then they'll refill it full again at the charge of $4.60 for a 24 oz PB tank. 

It'll be great if people documented their bps and how many pressure is left per month until refill. I can't make people do this of course. But when it comes down to questioning of how long this "X" amount of bps on this "X" amount of PB tank will last, I won't be able to answer what I wouldn't know.

The above information is a close estimate as far as I can come up with. I don't have a need to inject 3bps or more in a tank. That is where members comes in.

Obviously I can't run 6-8 different PB setups and find the answers for everyone who wants to know. 

Feel free to post your bps and how long it last here anytime on this thread. Even if it's not close to the above stated information, it lets us all know where the ball park is for a refill at whatever bps you're using.*


----------



## boredouttahell

Hey guys, 

so im having a bit of trouble with the watts valve... like many of you have noted, it is not holding steady pressure. The BPM slowly decreases over time and its very difficult to get it back up to the right BPM again. I have checked all possible places for leaks and even dunked the tank in a bucket of water. No luck so i might have to switch out to a swagelok valve... what is the best place to buy this valve? A link would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Sean


----------



## Jim Miller

JF: Good info thanks!

If you go through the math, regardless of tank size and excluding leaks, when the tank no longer has liquid in it but only gas at 800psi there is only 10% of the capacity remaining. Going down to 400psi is 5%. Since the refill always starts from zero and the cost to refill a 24oz at Dick's Sporting goods is $4.99 the waste of refilling as soon as the needle starts dropping is 10% of $4.99 or a whopping $0.50.

I'd tell folks to swap tanks as soon as it moves for that kind of $$.

Thanks

Jim


----------



## Jaggedfury

boredouttahell said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> so im having a bit of trouble with the watts valve... like many of you have noted, it is not holding steady pressure. The BPM slowly decreases over time and its very difficult to get it back up to the right BPM again. I have checked all possible places for leaks and even dunked the tank in a bucket of water. No luck so i might have to switch out to a swagelok valve... what is the best place to buy this valve? A link would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,
> Sean


If you are set at getting the Swagelok Needle Valve, do a research on online for B-OVM2-BKB. That is the one you want to purchase. Keep in mind it's a 1/8'' by 1/8'' so you will need other parts on the end to make it work.


----------



## Bimmer

*Just about Ready to get this system going...*

Couple of ???'s first.

As I've mentioned I'm using this on a 72-Gallon Bowfront. 

1. Would you recommend running a TEE off the line and using a diffuser at each end of the tank?

2. I saw someone mention a drop checker. Should I use this? What does it look like? Where can I get one and how much do they cost?

I've stared using up the 1/2 bottle I have of Seachem FLOURISH before I switch to EXCEL. Tank has been up and running about 2 weeks and I just added (2) Brazilian Swords to see how they hold up. Don't want to do a major plant until I know things are as they should be. I just put the plants in today but heres a pic of what it looked like a couple of days ago.


----------



## Jaggedfury

1. You can either use a "Tee" connector, Brass or Plastic, or setup 2 different PB co2 tanks. One on each side of the tank. Those are the options.

2. A drop checker lets you check the co2 level within your fish tank. It's not needed, it's an optional item but nice to have. I would use it if you have live stock such as fish. Tons of places online sells it. People are even making their own for near free to a few dollars. It works by mixing a certain amount of re-agent into it then having it placed inside your tank abosbing the co2 injected water within the tank. Over a period of a day, the color indicator will change from blue to greenish yellow coloration base on your co2 present in the fish tank. They can be bought online for $15 to $30 and up depending on brands and such, it looks like this..










Thanks
Jase


----------



## Kianna

Jaggedfury said:


> The "O" rings, can be bought at your local Paintball Co2 Store. I'm not sure if Wal mart or other stores sells it. As this haven't happened to me.
> 
> Best thing I would do is to use Yellowpages online and find a local Paintball Sport Store near you and get the parts there. Or you can order it online from different Paintball Sport Store.
> 
> The Hex Screw should be tight. Each and every one of them were double check by me for tightness. Although, I'm not aware of how strong everyone else's hands are, but it does get loosen when you tend to over tighten the Top Knob down too much. Overtime, it's just something to check. It's not like you're refilling your tank every week. It's just on the list of things to check 2-4 times a year. Just go easy on the Top Knob and use the Gauge for what it's design to do. Once the Gauge accepts the Co2 pressure, you can stop tightening down the Top Knob. = )



I found the 2 o-rings for the depress pin in the asa at Lowes. BrassCraft # 0533 - 2 o-rings for .58 The size is 1/4"ID x 3/8"OD x 1/16" Wall Thickness. 

They didn't look bad but I replaced them anyway, pushed the pin back in there (doesn't fall out anymore) and it works perfect. No more leaking out the top knob.


----------



## Kianna

Stillboardin said:


> Hey I've got a question for everybody that uses this setup.
> 
> About 6 weeks ago I set up this system with a 20oz tank I purchased off Amazon, an on/off with gauge, swagelok needle valve. I had it set up and running at about a bubble per second for the last 6 weeks until it ran out this last weekend. It had no leaks and worked great.
> So I pull the bottle and take it to Sports Authority tonight to get it filled. They tell me that they can't get any CO2 in it. When they hook it to their fill hose and try to pressurize it it just dumps out the burst disk. They said they could only get a few ounces in.
> I told them it had only been filled once before, by them, and was leak free for the last six weeks. They suggested maybe their fill system was bad.
> 
> I came home and thought maybe a few ounces would last a little while so I hooked up my on/off/needle valve setup to see if I could get any CO2 out of it. As soon as I opened the on/off it leaked bad out of the screw part of the on/off. I checked the o-rings and they looked fine.
> 
> So I wonder if anyone else has had the same issue that the tank worked fine and when you took the on/off off it acts like something broke.
> 
> This is the on/off I have



I took 2 tanks to Sports Authority to be filled yesterday and I watched the guy fill the 1st tank, then I saw him fiddling with the 2nd tank and he appeared to be having problems with it. I saw him take the tank to a workbench and was doing something with it. A couple minutes later he comes back and begins filling it. I asked him if there was something wrong with the tank. He said nope....I just replaced the o-ring on the tank because I was having problems getting the co2 in with my fill adapter. So if the o-ring on the tank is bad they can't fill it and I think it depends on who you get filling it as to whether they know that or bother with changing the o-ring for you.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Kianna said:


> I found the 2 o-rings for the depress pin in the asa at Lowes. BrassCraft # 0533 - 2 o-rings for .58 The size is 1/4"ID x 3/8"OD x 1/16" Wall Thickness.
> 
> They didn't look bad but I replaced them anyway, pushed the pin back in there (doesn't fall out anymore) and it works perfect. No more leaking out the top knob.


Great! I knew this is the cause. Glad you were able to follow directions and get it fix.

To further avoid this as much as possible and prolong the life of those "O" rings, go easy on the ASA On/Off Valve Top Knob when adjusting it. Use the Gauge for what's it's purpose it. Once the Gauge accepts the pressure, The Top Knob doesn't need to be twisted all the way down.


----------



## Bimmer

Stopped at Lowe's and got a 1/4" TEE and a dual outlet timer for my lights. Then I went to Aquaticmagic at the following URL and bought a drop checker for $10 and TWO diffusers $12.95 each. As soon as they arrive I just need to get tubing and then I'll be set. You guys are just standard clear tubing right? Not the hard white tubing?
http://www.aquariumplantsandsupplies.com/index.php


----------



## Jaggedfury

Cool. The Co2 tubing is part number SVEB10, 10 being 10 feet long. They also have SVEB20, 20 being 20 feet long. Homedepot carries it, Lowes does too but it might be under a different part number.

It's Silicone tubing but it's made for Chemical, Gas and Liquids.

It's not your Standard Air Tubing size or properties.


----------



## ohbaby714

Thank everyone for the info. I finally got my set up over the weekend and so far so good. Here is my break down of the cost.
CO2 tanks 20 oz - $15 (Amazon) 
PAINTBALL CO2 FILL ADAPTER REMOTE ON OFF 2 PORT GAUGE (ebay) - $13.45
spiro CO2 diffuser bubble counter ADA style aquarium (ebay) - $12
******/SWAGELOK NEW 1/8 VALVE SS-OVM2-BKB (ebay) - $14
CO2 fill- $3.75 at Sport Authority = $3.75
CO2 tube- (free) from my old "NutraFin CO2 Natural Plant System"
Other Brass coonection (free) have some laying around from mu old fridge repair.
Total cost about +$50.
Anyway, i'm also in the process of getting a drop checker:
CO2 Drop Checker with PH solution (ebay)- $14 and hopefully will be set for this project.
Very easy to do, require minimum skills and run perfectly fine.

I still have some questions maybe someone can help me with.
I know that some left the system on all night, the first couple of day i turn my off at night time with the tank on/off knob (not needle valve) and turn it on again in the morning. 

1) Is it better to just leave in on (reduce wear and tear on the knob/ o-ring)?
I'm saving that much more CO2? 

2) Plus i have a small leaks (i think) when i test fromt the burst disk it self, is this normal? This maybe because the tank is a bit over pressure? The tank sit a bit abov the green area of the gauge (300psi?).

3) I'm in a process of getting a drop checker but in the mean time, i'm turning the co2 as little as possible and try to count the buble as it comming up to the defusser. How many buble per second do i need for a 40G? Are there some kind of formula for bubble count?

So far i been turning it on and if most of my fish hanking around at the surface i would adjusted it lower till i find the right equilibrium. I'm new with co2 and plant tank so any inpust would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Jaggedfury

*1. Leaving it on 24/7 is all up to you. I do it because it works fine in my tanks. Fish and shrimps are thriving as normal, same goes with plants. 

2. I'm not sure what type of Gauge you have, I have seen Gauges and how far the pressure reads. A fully filled co2 tank will range from 800-850 psi. You're Gauge should read between that mark when it's filled. *

*If it leaks at the Burst Disk, that is not Normal. It can mean 2 things.

1. Burst Disk doesn't leak unless it's loose. You should NEVER adjust a Burst Disk in any way when the PB tank has pressure.

2. Burst Disk are made for one reason only. To "Burst" when the pressure in the PB tank is overfilled. It will "Burst" itself out instead of leaks. If it doesn't "Burst" and do it's job, the PB Tank will blow up. If the Burst Disk "Bursted" it means it's doing it's job as it's designed to. 

Take it to your refill place again and have them un filled the co2 gas that's left in the PB tank, and have them check your Burst Disk for you. Then have them Refill it again. Paying the extra $3.75 versus the cause of the PB tank belowing up within your house is way worth the cost. *

*3. Bps depends on your Plants, not your size of the tank. If you have one Amazon Sword Plant in a 40gallon tank, of course you're not going to inject 5bps. It all depends on what types of plants you have, demanding or not demanding co2 plants and so forth.*


----------



## ohbaby714

Thank you Jagged for such a fast reply.
I looked at the gauge again and it is around 800psi. As far as the burst disk gose, thank for the advise i'll have it check out some time during the week. The second CO2 tank shouls be deliver today so once i get it, i'll take both to have it fill and check out at the same time.


----------



## Bimmer

Awaiting the drop checker and both diffusers in the mail. Got the entire rest of the system assembled and water-dunk tested. Thought I had thought of everything. Nope. I forgot to put tape on the gauge...idiot....I would make one suggestion that I stupidly missed out on. You see I used to be a Nuclear Pipefitter back the mid-70's. I've worked with 1/8" OD tubing for gauges, all the way up to 10" firemain piping and cress piping on submarines designed for 4,500 lbs of pressure. Any way. The nipple I bought to came off the ASA valve was just that. Just a straight threaded nipple. This made it impossible to properly HOLD the nipple in a wrench while tightening each side after applying the teflon tape. So just a word. Get ONLY the 1/8" nipple that has a hex portion in the middle.


----------



## PRSRocker3390

Hey Jagged, I got the ASA with gauge from you (option #2). The gauge is already permanently attached, correct? I should just leave it alone?


----------



## Jaggedfury

The Gauge is tight. No need to adjust it or alter it in any way. Leave it alone. It's tested before shipping out, that is the cause of it being Loctite Glued.

If you want to remove it for whatever the reason, that's up to you. I take no responsiblity for it. You will need to heat it up upon loosening it.


----------



## PRSRocker3390

That's okay, I don't want to touch it. I was just double checking if it was glue in place because I couldn't remember. Thanks, now I just need to feel up the co2 tank and get it going!


----------



## ohbaby714

FYI, I fill my second tank up and no leak so far. Been runing for about a 4-5 day now and lossing about 20-30 psi so far. Look like this will last a while before the tank empty out. Thank again for the help.


----------



## Bimmer

I hope this doesn't post twice. I posted it just a little bit ago and it didn't show up. 

OK, got the diffusers in the mail today. So I finished up the TEE that is equiping 2 diffusers due to the size of my tank. I cracked the valve open and the left diffuser isn't working but the right one is performing well. I DID do a dunk test of the entire system and no leaks. I order to get the left one working, I have to really crank it open so much in fact that the right one is creating massive turbulence and the left one is just producing a nice steady bubbling. I don't have a bubble-counter and I would know how to use one if I did. How do I know how much it too much CO2? My impression is that the diffuser should either just producing a very fine mist or slightly more. I took a video. Tell me your thoughts. If they're not going to work in tandem then I should just omit the TEE and just use on diffuser.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hvfIqWJjfU


----------



## g33tar

Well im guessing that the gas pressure is released at the point of least resistance, which is probably the diffuser that is putting the bubbles out...which looks like its putting out some serious bubbleage right there. I think you'd do just fine with that one diffuser, even turned down less than that.


----------



## karatekid14

Holy crap! I adjusted the co2 about 2 millimeters and the tubes blew off and started flapping about. I freaked out and ran out of my room. My mom came running up the stairs and managed to turn it off. Everythimg was fine before, nothing broke. Just wanted to warn people to *BE CAREFUL!* It works great still just be careful adjusting it.


----------



## Moloch

^ sorry but that mental image made me chuckle.

I'm thinking about setting one of these systems up. I think I still have an old tank or two laying around, I'd just have to make sure I can still get them filled.

I'm thinking that I'd want to build an inline reactor for one of my canister filters, it seems like this is the best method for introducing the c02 into the aquarium and they don't seem like they'd be all that difficult to build.

The only thing I still haven't nailed down are the drop checker and bubble counter. Any suggestions? Cheaper is better, I might try and DIY instead.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Bimmer said:


> I hope this doesn't post twice. I posted it just a little bit ago and it didn't show up.
> 
> OK, got the diffusers in the mail today. So I finished up the TEE that is equiping 2 diffusers due to the size of my tank. I cracked the valve open and the left diffuser isn't working but the right one is performing well. I DID do a dunk test of the entire system and no leaks. I order to get the left one working, I have to really crank it open so much in fact that the right one is creating massive turbulence and the left one is just producing a nice steady bubbling. I don't have a bubble-counter and I would know how to use one if I did. How do I know how much it too much CO2? My impression is that the diffuser should either just producing a very fine mist or slightly more. I took a video. Tell me your thoughts. If they're not going to work in tandem then I should just omit the TEE and just use on diffuser.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hvfIqWJjfU


Regarding that video and setup. 

Heres what I would do.

Are you using 2 Check Valve? I would use 2 Check Valve and see how it turns out.

If it's not distributing evenlying pressure on both Ceramic Glass Diffuser. Being as one has less resistance than the other. Thus, outputing more co2 gas than the other.

You can try this method.

Use a T-Valve Adjuster on the Less Resistance side and close off the pressure a bit so it back pressure out the other side.

T-Valve









You can purchase that at your local fish shop and they're faily cheap. They come in all sorts of packages with "T" Connectors. 

Let me know how it goes. I would first put 2 Check Valves and see how it works first.


----------



## e.wan

should I Vaseline the o-ring on the tank that seals the the asa on off valve?


----------



## Jaggedfury

e.wan said:


> should I Vaseline the o-ring on the tank that seals the the asa on off valve?


Never done it, Don't advised it.

If replacing it, use a pick and pick it out, then slide the new one in. 

No type of grease is needed at all. 

All up to you though.


----------



## e.wan

Jaggedfury said:


> Never done it, Don't advised it.
> 
> If replacing it, use a pick and pick it out, then slide the new one in.
> 
> No type of grease is needed at all.
> 
> All up to you though.


alright thanks for the reply, just crossed my mind as i was setting up the 2215, and that alot of the members here recommend vaseline on the o-ring there.


----------



## S4UCE

I burned through a 16oz tank in three weeks at 1-2bps. I figure I would have noticed any leaks but I guess I was wrong! I'm going to get the tank refilled tomorrow, replace the o-ring, and check the system with soapy water.


----------



## ValorG

I've been linking this on a few other forums!


----------



## Geoscouter

Kianna said:


> I found the 2 o-rings for the depress pin in the asa at Lowes. BrassCraft # 0533 - 2 o-rings for .58 The size is 1/4"ID x 3/8"OD x 1/16" Wall Thickness.
> 
> They didn't look bad but I replaced them anyway, pushed the pin back in there (doesn't fall out anymore) and it works perfect. No more leaking out the top knob.


I had the same problem, unit was working fine but turned the on off valve off to clean the diffuser. When I turned it back on co2 came rushing out of the top of the on off valve. WTF ? Took the valve off the tank and the pin fell on the floor! Had no clue what could have happened. Checked here and sure enough a couple of others had the same problem. I went to lowes and bought the above o-rings Danco #5. 10 for $1.97 replaced the two rings on the pin and slid it back into the on off valve which now held it in place. Turned the valve back on just until I had pressure show on the gauge and it's working great again! Jagged knows his product! Don't crank the on off valve knob all the way down.

thanks!


----------



## Jaggedfury

Geoscouter said:


> I had the same problem, unit was working fine but turned the on off valve off to clean the diffuser. When I turned it back on co2 came rushing out of the top of the on off valve. WTF ? Took the valve off the tank and the pin fell on the floor! Had no clue what could have happened. Checked here and sure enough a couple of others had the same problem. I went to lowes and bought the above o-rings Danco #5. 10 for $1.97 replaced the two rings on the pin and slid it back into the on off valve which now held it in place. Turned the valve back on just until I had pressure show on the gauge and it's working great again! Jagged knows his product! Don't crank the on off valve knob all the way down.
> 
> thanks!


This is a very common problem that happens fairly often in the Paintball Sport Industries. You can probably imagine it happening more often due to the fact the players refill their Paintball Co2 Tanks more often then we do, each time before playing a game or after or sometimes during a game if there's a fill station near by. Time and Speed is everything to the players. 

This is an example. Fast removal closing off the Top Knob, Twisting off their Paintball Tank for another one to be inplace, Opening of the Top Knob with speed precisions and not using the Gauge as reference of Acceptance. 

To lessen this problem and prolong the life of the 2 "O" rings, Use the Gauge for what's it's designed for. As you turn your Top Knob on the ASA On/Off Valve, pay attention to the Gauge at the same time while turning it Clockwise. Once the Gauge "Accepts" the pressure, the adjusting of the Top Knob on the ASA On/Off Valve can be stop.

Personally, I haven't had to replace the 2 "O" rings myself. This problem had came to my attentioned from a customer that notifty me of this. I then contacted my vendor of the product and he informed me that these 2 "O" rings goes out depending on the adjustment of the Top Knob on the ASA On/Off Valve.


----------



## rekles75

Oh well I guess I will give up on this system. I could never get the needle valve dialed in to 1 bubble a sec. It would start as 1 bubble a sec then a few hours later it would either go to no CO2 or like 40 bubbles a sec. Decided to get another Needle valve but never got to replace it. Before I could the on/off switch started leaking CO2 like crazy. It is not the o ring I have 100s of them. The CO2 is leaking from the on off valve because it turns it white from the cold CO2 coming out there.


----------



## wiseguy127

Got my number 3 and it seems pretty slick. Now I just have to get my paint ball tank to play with it.


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## sjuapseorn

Man I wish I had seen this like 4 days ago.. I could have saved 5$ worth of O-rings..
well atleast now I know what's up..


----------



## sjuapseorn

karatekid14 said:


> Holy crap! I adjusted the co2 about 2 millimeters and the tubes blew off and started flapping about. I freaked out and ran out of my room. My mom came running up the stairs and managed to turn it off. Everythimg was fine before, nothing broke. Just wanted to warn people to *BE CAREFUL!* It works great still just be careful adjusting it.


 
ZOMG!!! thank you!! 
I just laughed so hard I had tears!!


----------



## pattymedic

Ok, stupid question but I know nothing about CO2 systems. I would like to do this rather than mess around with yeast and pop bottles. After I set all this up, then what? I hook it up to a glass diffuser that goes in the water? What else do I need?


----------



## sjuapseorn

Once you have the whole setup made and leak tested.. Fill the bubble counter with water and put the diffuser in the water you're pretty much set.

Just have to tweak on the needle valve till you get the bubble rate you want.

Depending on how high tech you want to go.. you can buy a timer and a solenoid to activate the co2 when the lights come on and off when they go out, but the cheapest one i've seen so far is made by TAAM and it's 89$ on amazon.


----------



## HolyAngel

a drop checker with 4dkh solution is good to monitor the co2 till you get it where you want it, then it's all good. just check it every week or so to make sure the bubble count(need a bubble counter and make sure you have a check valve too) is still good and yeah, totally good to go 

also i would choose an inline atomizer instead of a glass diffuser that goes in the tank. the glass ones are flimsy.. and yeah if you have a canister filter then thats the way to go for sure. can check my sig for results as i'm using this method myself ^^


----------



## coldmantis

the thing about the o rings leaking on the adapters is what pissed me off, because of this I have gone few quite a couple of adapters. I find that if it leaks and you replaced the oring it's never the same as before, I started recently in the pass month to transition all my paintball co2 to a regulator setup google for " jacpac" it's basicly a kit that comes with a regulator that fits onto a paintball tank and it also comes with a 9oz paintball tank and the best part was it was on sale here in canada got it for 20 bucks, rigged it up with the swagelok and omg it's amazing you won't believe how much easier it is to adjust the bubble rate when your not going against 850psi of pressure and on how steady it is, all I can say is wow even after 2 weeks it's still steady to the millisecond that I originally set it before, and with this setup a solenoid is a easy addition. All I can say is that if you want 3bps, 2bps, 1bps, 1b per 10secs this does that effortlessly.


----------



## S4UCE

S4UCE said:


> I burned through a 16oz tank in three weeks at 1-2bps. I figure I would have noticed any leaks but I guess I was wrong! I'm going to get the tank refilled tomorrow, replace the o-ring, and check the system with soapy water.


Turned out I had a leak from the compression nut. I replaced it with an ander-lign compression nut with sleeve and that did the trick. When I was testing, I accidentally cranked up the needle valve and blew the tubing off the check valve, launching the glass diffuser into the tile floor. Fortunately, I'm just finishing up a DIY reactor to get the CO2 into the water more efficiently.


----------



## ohbaby714

Agree with coldmantis.
I got mine setup about a month now and went through 2 of the 20oz. tanks due to trying to hard to get the bubble right. In the end, I got a regulator (similar to coldmantis) that output 35psi, it's like night and day, the defusser also work much better at breaking down co2 due to lower pressure, thus less reach the water surface and more in the water. I'll refill my 3rd tank and will see if this is more effective.


----------



## rj55021

*Canadia Home Depot - Needle Valve A-41*

Hello Guys!

Just preparing my mind for this DIY!

I am reading all pages to do not so much questions at the end of this topic! I am already on page 74! (Almost theeeeeere) but it comes to a crucial question.
I am in Montreal/CA and the needle valve A-41 from the Canadian Home Depot looks a little bit different.

Do you guys see any difference?

- PSI
- Connectors (male/female)

Thanks
Saulo


----------



## ohbaby714

O-ring help.

I need the replacement o-ring for the asa on/off valve. After 2-3 use it leak bad at the on/off valve, dose anyone know where i can get the o-ring?


----------



## Jaggedfury

rj55021 said:


> Hello Guys!
> 
> Just preparing my mind for this DIY!
> 
> I am reading all pages to do not so much questions at the end of this topic! I am already on page 74! (Almost theeeeeere) but it comes to a crucial question.
> I am in Montreal/CA and the needle valve A-41 from the Canadian Home Depot looks a little bit different.
> 
> Do you guys see any difference?
> 
> - PSI
> - Connectors (male/female)
> 
> Thanks
> Saulo


Shoot me a PM and I'll help you out.



ohbaby714 said:


> O-ring help.
> 
> I need the replacement o-ring for the asa on/off valve. After 2-3 use it leak bad at the on/off valve, dose anyone know where i can get the o-ring?


At Lowes stores, BrassCraft # 0533 - 2 o-rings for .58 cents. The size is 1/4"ID x 3/8"OD x 1/16" Wall Thickness.

I'm not 100% certain sure if the above replacement o-rings will work for your ASA On/Off valve that you got else where. It might work, it might now.


----------



## Palmed

Does normal aquarium hose work? Or do I need to get the line from Lowes?


----------



## Jaggedfury

No, it does not work. It's a bit too small.

The Co2 Tubing can be bought at Homedepot or Lowes(Unsure part number at Lowes).
*
Co2 Tubing (Part Number SVEB10 sold at Homedepot 10 feet is $2.14)*


----------



## chaznsc

Once you get the leaks sealed do u open the main valve al open or just crack it? 

I can't get the leaks in mine to stop but wanted to ask about standard operating procedure.


----------



## rj55021

*Fyi*

Today I have visited a local Home Depot and find out that even though that here in Canada they dont show the LF on the watts a-41 is still the same US model. 
Really simple and the co2 tube is available there to.

Regards




rj55021 said:


> Hello Guys!
> 
> Just preparing my mind for this DIY!
> 
> I am reading all pages to do not so much questions at the end of this topic! I am already on page 74! (Almost theeeeeere) but it comes to a crucial question.
> I am in Montreal/CA and the needle valve A-41 from the Canadian Home Depot looks a little bit different.
> 
> Do you guys see any difference?
> 
> - PSI
> - Connectors (male/female)
> 
> Thanks
> Saulo


----------



## Palmed

Do lowes and home depot sell varying thickness of vinyl tubing? I heated mine up but I could not get the nut on it to screw it onto my needle valve. Did I get some that was to thick?


----------



## Jaggedfury

chaznsc said:


> Once you get the leaks sealed do u open the main valve al open or just crack it?
> 
> I can't get the leaks in mine to stop but wanted to ask about standard operating procedure.


A photo illustration of where it's leaking would be great. I examined this setup hundreds of times and possible know almost all aspect of it. I can definitely help you out, considering that you took your time in setting it up carefully the right way tightening down parts and using enough Teflon Tape.

If it leaks at the Needle Valve's left threads that goes into the ASA On/off Valve 1/8'' opening, your not using enough Teflon Tape or it's not wrench down tight enough. 

If it leaks on the right side of the 1/4'' Needle Valve, there are multiple causes of this. Check the followings.

1. Not enough Teflon Tape around that 1/4'' Thread of the Needle Valve
2. Wrong size co2 tubing
3. Compression Ring have been damaged when not tightening it down right
4. The Compression Ring Nut, isn't wrench down tight enough

Let me know how it goes.



Palmed said:


> Do lowes and home depot sell varying thickness of vinyl tubing? I heated mine up but I could not get the nut on it to screw it onto my needle valve. Did I get some that was to thick?


Lowes and Homedepot sells different size tubings. Gas, Chemical and Liquid rated.

The correct co2 tubing you want is the following..
Co2 Tubing (Part Number SVEB10 sold at Homedepot 10 feet is $2.14) It's Watts Brand.

If I remember correctly, it's should be the smallest size tubing that Lowes/Homedepot sells at the Plumbing departments below all the Brass and Copper fittings. The SVEB10, 10 meants 10 feet. If it says SVEB20, it will still work, the 20 is referencing the number of feet.


----------



## DiamondLife

Are all of the ASA on/off valves made by CP the same? I don't want to buy the wrong item online.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Hey there

Not that I know of. CP (Custom Products) have several different ASA On/Off Valve that ranges for Mini to Long. They internally parts are different as well. Some "O" rings are a bit larger than the ones I use in the ASA On/Off Valve that I provide in Option #3. 

The good thing with purchasing CP brand ASA On/Off Valve is that, majority of the Paintball Sport Stores carries all or most of it's replacement parts. Easy to get.

As far as part and replacement goes, keep in mind you're dealing with compressing liquid/gas. Eventually you will need to replace the "Plastic/Rubber" parts within the ASA On/Off Valve of any brand out there.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Long day, whew. 

Option #3 available. $38 shipped.

Add New Co2 Tubing per 2 feet = $2 dollars. You can add as much New Co2 Tubing as you want!

Let me know.

Thanks
Jase


----------



## aquariumcentral

Hey I just set up my system today. It seems to be working okay but I have a little problem of the pressure slowly draining. It will run for about 4 hours but slowly decrease from 3 bubbles a second to less than one. I think this is because I cant open the co2 tank fully or it will leak air out the ball joint valve. I am using the watts A-41 and I teflon taped that area but it still leaks when the tanks opened fully. The bolt can be tightened a little further but before I possibly damage it I wanted to check if this was the problem. When I run the system with the asa valve half way opened there is no leaks. What do you guys recommend


----------



## Jaggedfury

The ASA On/off valve should be hand tighten down all the way onto the Pin Valve of the Paintball Co2 Tank.

As far as the top knob, while turning it clockwise to depress the Depress Pin, examine the Gauge at the same time. When the Gauge "Accepts" the Paintball Co2 Tank's pressure, you can then stop twisting on the ASA On/Off Valve's Top Knob.


----------



## jmzjmz

Jaggedfury has a great product!


----------



## rj55021

jmzjmz said:


> Jaggedfury has a great product!



Mine is about to arrive 

Will be glad to see my new plants growing like in a farm


----------



## Burks

Well my setup has been working great up until today. I got my tank refilled and went to put the ASA on, lost almost all my CO2.

I screw the ASA on to the tank and started to turn the ASA valve down to open the tank, CO2 started rushing out the ASA valve at the top. So I unscrewed it and tried again, lost the rest of the tank.

Is the ASA faulty or what now? I have no idea what to do and really am getting tired of getting refills because of this stupid thing.


----------



## Jim Miller

O-ring?

Jim


----------



## Burks

Jim Miller said:


> O-ring?
> 
> Jim


When taking the ASA apart there are two O-rings on the little brass piece itself. It seems to fit awfully loose inside there, but I wasn't that observant before to know if it was or wasn't loose before.


----------



## rekles75

Burks said:


> Well my setup has been working great up until today. I got my tank refilled and went to put the ASA on, lost almost all my CO2.
> 
> I screw the ASA on to the tank and started to turn the ASA valve down to open the tank, CO2 started rushing out the ASA valve at the top. So I unscrewed it and tried again, lost the rest of the tank.
> 
> Is the ASA faulty or what now? I have no idea what to do and really am getting tired of getting refills because of this stupid thing.



Mines did the same thing. Fury said the little o rings were the problem but I havent been able to get to them. I too am a little frustrated and sick of this setup.


----------



## Burks

rekles75 said:


> Mines did the same thing. Fury said the little o rings were the problem but I havent been able to get to them. I too am a little frustrated and sick of this setup.


That's a bummer. Guess I'll pull them off and head to Home Depot or something tomorrow. If that doesn't fix it, I'll have a paintball set up for sale. :icon_lol:


----------



## Jim Miller

Why use the adapters with the knob and all the potential leaks? Why not the ones with the fixed pin valve actuator?

Jim


----------



## Burks

Jim Miller said:


> Why use the adapters with the knob and all the potential leaks? Why not the ones with the fixed pin valve actuator?
> 
> Jim


It's just what I bought from Fury.


----------



## Geoscouter

I had same problem. Replaced o rings and now it works fine.


----------



## Burks

I just teflon taped the crap out of the top part until I can fix it.


----------



## accordztech

I can't find the thread in this thread on your living and what comes with the packages.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Burks said:


> I just teflon taped the crap out of the top part until I can fix it.


The O rings are easily replacecable. It's like .58 cents per 3-6 O rings. Part number at Lowes is BrassCraft # 0533. The size is 1/4"ID x 3/8"OD x 1/16" Wall Thickness.



You're dealing with rubber O rings and pressurized gas, overtime it's going to wear out. 

The Needle Valve like the Custom Products uses a fixed Pin Valve type Actuator. When it goes bad, the whole entire Needle Valve needs to be replaced. The Custom Product Needle Valve I've used in the past cost $45 dollars + if I remembered correctly. Last thing you want to do it replace the same Custom Product Needle Valve within a year of usuage. Wouldn't the .58 cent or so replacement of the O rings be more better to replace then the Pin Valve Actuator on the higher end ASA Needle Valve.

The setup isn't meant for everybody. Although it works fine and all. I plan to replace my O rings on the depress pin when it comes to my 5 month refill this coming May. It's only .58 cents and think of it like a maintenance type ordeal.


----------



## accordztech

FYI the needle valves sold at home depot are also at OSH. But OSH has them for around 5 bucks. Oh and I commented on how home depot was 15 bucks each, they dropped the price to 10 bucks.

Im trying these stupid valves again.


----------



## Burks

Jaggedfury said:


> The O rings are easily replacecable. It's like .58 cents per 3-6 O rings. Part number at Lowes is BrassCraft # 0533. The size is 1/4"ID x 3/8"OD x 1/16" Wall Thickness.
> 
> You're dealing with rubber O rings and pressurized gas, overtime it's going to wear out.


Thanks for the part numbers. That makes it a ton easier. I'll pick some up tonight and also continue to tape the threads every fill up anyways. Might as well double up on leak prevention. 

Yeah, I expect things to wear. But after a little under two months of use? Eh...probably just the cheapest O-rings the company could find. Wouldn't surprise me if they were "old stock" to begin with.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Shock-Tech uses O rings as well for their depress pin. They sold very high end paintball products as well as the ASA On/Off Valve. The O rings on them are also required to replaced after each weekend game or refill. The company didn't do too good in products and thus resulting in going out of business. Some stores will still sell their ST(Shock-Tech) products, but that doesn't mean just because you pay for higher end ASA On/Off valve that you wouldn't need to replace the O rings. 

I believed if you want to go the super duper cheap way, your local paintball store can sell you 100-600 pieces for nearly $5-$8 dollars. 

They are just something that needs to be replaced often. I would say it's best to change it every time you refill the tank. In my chase, it's 5-6 months. Even though it might be fine, it's just that extra piece of cents will further lessen prevent a leak for you.


----------



## Jaggedfury

accordztech said:


> FYI the needle valves sold at home depot are also at OSH. But OSH has them for around 5 bucks. Oh and I commented on how home depot was 15 bucks each, they dropped the price to 10 bucks.
> 
> Im trying these stupid valves again.


Let me know next time around when you drop by to pick up the parts.


----------



## accordztech

The valves are good now, I setup (and voided my GLA warrenty hehe) with a 3 port co2 system.

The valves can do 1 bubble per 2 seconds if I tried. It will hold that all day. 

Im happy and poor at the same time =/

Jase, ill try to hit you up tomorrow. But im detailing a car in the afternoon so I may not have time to stop by.


----------



## Batt4Christ

*Thanks!*

Thanks for posting this (and yes, I know this has been here a while, but I just found it) - and being new to the CO2 idea - I'm looking for options and this looks right up my alley (I have an extra CO2 tank!).


----------



## rj55021

Yesterday I finally found the SVEB20 tube, but I am confused about the setup with the same needle valve on the first page.

Does the compression ring must be smashed when tighten the nut to the needle valve in order to lock the tube into it?

I got a different A-41 with an L shape and it came in a different set up (without the compression ring) like this one 


I was able to assemble the L shape needle valve into the tube and connect to the ASA ON/OFF. (still need to buy the tank)

My question is more about what is suppose to happen with the compression ring, as I am planning to have a second set up.

Thanks all


----------



## Jaggedfury

If you're using a Compressing Ring, as you tighten the Nut, it will "Compress" the Compression Ring to grab onto the Tubing. It will pinch itself enough to hold onto the Tubing. You should not be able to pull the Tubing out afterwards. 

If you are able to pull the Tubing out, you either didn't tighten it the Nut down enough or the Compression Ring wasn't positioned right when you were tightening the Nut down.

Keep in mind the Compression Ring will alter it's shape when you tighten the Nut therefore it can be used most of the time just once. Although you might get away with it by reform it cylinder circle shape if you mess up and try again. 

In you're case, your Needle Valve came with a Nipple to Tubing output. It's basically a simple setup as well. It uses the same Tubing for the Compressiong Ring as well.

Installation guide:
- Slide Nut onto Co2 Tubing first.
- Attach the Nipple to Tubing connector onto the Co2 Tubing to where the Nipple to Tubing curves outward at the other end. Don't force the Co2 Tubing pass that mark.
- Position it onto the Needle Valve's Output thread, after having teflon tape that thread area, screw the Nut onto the Needle Valve's Output thread.
- Tighten down with a wrench.

Check for leaks, if it holds, you're good to go.

That should answer all of your questions.


----------



## rj55021

Jaggedfury said:


> If you're using a Compressing Ring, as you tighten the Nut, it will "Compress" the Compression Ring to grab onto the Tubing. It will pinch itself enough to hold onto the Tubing. You should not be able to pull the Tubing out afterwards.
> 
> If you are able to pull the Tubing out, you either didn't tighten it the Nut down enough or the Compression Ring wasn't positioned right when you were tightening the Nut down.
> 
> Keep in mind the Compression Ring will alter it's shape when you tighten the Nut therefore it can be used most of the time just once. Although you might get away with it by reform it cylinder circle shape if you mess up and try again.
> 
> In you're case, your Needle Valve came with a Nipple to Tubing output. It's basically a simple setup as well. It uses the same Tubing for the Compressiong Ring as well.
> 
> Installation guide:
> - Slide Nut onto Co2 Tubing first.
> - Attach the Nipple to Tubing connector onto the Co2 Tubing to where the Nipple to Tubing curves outward at the other end. Don't force the Co2 Tubing pass that mark.
> - Position it onto the Needle Valve's Output thread, after having teflon tape that thread area, screw the Nut onto the Needle Valve's Output thread.
> - Tighten down with a wrench.
> 
> Check for leaks, if it holds, you're good to go.
> 
> That should answer all of your questions.


Sure did 

Thanks Jag.

I may get my CO2 tank this Saturday. So I will send news later on that.


----------



## rj55021

Finally !!! Up and running, no licks and ready to watch my plants growing a lottt! 

After 12 hours working, my findings:

- It seems the bobbles are noisy, I thought would be a lick after opened the valves, but getting closer to the bobbles it seems clear that the sound comes from them ...  (Comments ?? )

- Yes, I notice a small drop of the pressure after this 12 hours and then I had to open a little more the valve to keep the 1:1 sequence.

- Yes, I did wrong when I first open the valve and I quietly peed my pants

- Happy to find this post! Looking forward on the development of this system


----------



## Jaggedfury

Looks good. How long did the shipment take to get to you? Day wise.


----------



## jjonesrjc

Ok hate to be a pain but I can't figure out what o ring you're all talking about as mine has begun to leak from the top when I screw the top piece down it leaks right from underneath it not from where it screws on to the tank. Any help would be much appreciated I just cant find an o ring on the unit.


----------



## jasonpatterson

Jaggedfury said:


> - Position it onto the Needle Valve's Output thread, *after having teflon tape that thread area*, screw the Nut onto the Needle Valve's Output thread.


This has been poking at me every time I see it on this forum, but you should never use teflon tape or any other thread sealant with a compression joint. It weakens the joint and can introduce leaks. I know that a lot of people do it, but it's a bad practice.


----------



## Jaggedfury

jjonesrjc said:


> Ok hate to be a pain but I can't figure out what o ring you're all talking about as mine has begun to leak from the top when I screw the top piece down it leaks right from underneath it not from where it screws on to the tank. Any help would be much appreciated I just cant find an o ring on the unit.


At Lowes, The O rings are easily replacecable. It's like .58 cents per 3-6 O rings. Part number at Lowes is BrassCraft # 0533. The size is 1/4"ID x 3/8"OD x 1/16" Wall Thickness.

Here is a picture of a photo of another O ring source from Lowes that will work as replacement also.


----------



## jjonesrjc

Also forgot to mention when I went to turn the on/off valve off I went the wrong way and heard a snap. Is my asa on/off shot or can I fix it?


----------



## Jaggedfury

Wouldn't know. I haven't turn it the wrong way before.

Simply just take it apart. Since you're replacing the 2 O rings on the Depress Pin. 

The ASA On/Off Valve is not much to it. Here's how it looks like apart.










Examine the Hex Scew, Depress Pin and 2 O rings.

While the ASA On/Off Valve is off the Paintball Co2 Tank, inspect your Pin Valve as well on the Paintball Co2 Tank itself.

If you heard a Snap, something obviously was overscrewed.


----------



## jjonesrjc

how do you get the depression pin out?


----------



## Jaggedfury

If you removing the Top Knob completely out. You should be able to push down the Depress Pin with a pick.

Once you install the 2 O rings, just push it back upward in place and it will fit snug and tight. If anytime the Depress Pin falls out by itself, the 2 O rings are ripped. Needs replacing.


----------



## rj55021

Jaggedfury said:


> Looks good. How long did the shipment take to get to you? Day wise.



Took me 18 days, but not only your shipment but also any other on line shopping done by me last month (addicted) took me at least 1 more week to receive than the normal delivery time.

But happy to have this system up and running roud:


----------



## Jaggedfury

Thanks for letting me know. So I can address this to Canadian folks that wants to purchase this. It usually took 7-14 days but I guess it jump a few days more.

Thanks
Jase


----------



## parasuco

i just came back from a paintball store and bought will a "universal fill adapter" that looks like this








i can only attached a needle valve but bo room for a gauge, will this work?


----------



## jjonesrjc

Jagged just wanted to mention replaced the o ring and it works like a champ again. Thanks. Affordable easy to use setup especially once its been running for a while you can really get those bps exact wont happen right away but once the systems had some use it all comes together. Thanks again for the help.


----------



## Jaggedfury

parasuco said:


> i just came back from a paintball store and bought will a "universal fill adapter" that looks like this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i can only attached a needle valve but bo room for a gauge, will this work?


You're image doesn't load.

In the past, the Universal Fill Adapters that I saw in person, doesn't seem to work. Which doesn't mean they don't ALL work.

If you happened to find one that does work. That's great.

If there is no room for a Gauge, they're are many options to go upon that.

If you didn't know, Paintball Co2 Tank itself have Gauge on them. Certain ones have a Gauge reader built on the side of the Paintball Co2 Cylinder Tank.










Another way is to use a "T" brass coupling that allows you to put a Gauge alongside the path of the Needle Valve. All the input threads of the "T" brass coupler should be 1/8'' NPT. Here's are some photo of what I meant on one of my setup.














































You should get an idea of what you need in the Above pictures. Here is a layout part that Homedepot carries with Part Number and all along with Prices for you to find that part.












jjonesrjc said:


> Jagged just wanted to mention replaced the o ring and it works like a champ again. Thanks. Affordable easy to use setup especially once its been running for a while you can really get those bps exact wont happen right away but once the systems had some use it all comes together. Thanks again for the help.


Awesome. No problem! Happy Pearling!

Thanks
Jase


----------



## parasuco

here is what i have, i hope it loads this time,









i will go to homedepot to purchase the parts from your pics. where can i get the gauge.


----------



## Jaggedfury

That may work. Dont' go with my words though. I'm use to seeing Universal Fill Adapters with a braid line to it. At least 2-4 feet of braided line. That braided line then goes to a connect outlet that attaches onto a refill station where the co2 cylinder usually 20lbs and up will refill you're Paintball Co2 tank.

The parts I listed above can be bought at Homedepot. Part numbers might not be accessible to Canadian stores. So in you're case, just brainstorm 1/8'' NPT 3 port Female Tees. 

The Gauge can be bought online if you do a search. Or just PM me.

Goodluck.

Thanks
Jase


----------



## rj55021

Did someone figure out how to keep the pressure at the same level as the bobbles decrease with a few days?

After 3 days running I have to manually open more the needle valve to get back 1:1 as it dropped to 1:~20.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Check for leaks. When checking for leaks, take a good few minutes having the setup dump in water and observe for any leaks. Small leaks can occur that takes a few seconds to arise. Any form of leak will drop the pressure of the set adjustment. Consistency should stay at exact adjustment. 

It's been 5 months for mines and it's nearly almost empty. Had great results and sometime today I'm refilling my setup after work. I have 2 Paintball Co2 tanks to refill! Nearly less than $10 dollars to refill 2 Paintball Co2 tanks! Can't beat that!


----------



## HolyAngel

Jaggedfury said:


> Wouldn't know. I haven't turn it the wrong way before.
> 
> Simply just take it apart. Since you're replacing the 2 O rings on the Depress Pin.
> 
> The ASA On/Off Valve is not much to it. Here's how it looks like apart.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Examine the Hex Scew, Depress Pin and 2 O rings.
> 
> While the ASA On/Off Valve is off the Paintball Co2 Tank, inspect your Pin Valve as well on the Paintball Co2 Tank itself.
> 
> If you heard a Snap, something obviously was overscrewed.


well went to refill my co2 tank and came back to put it on and screwed down the top to close the pin and all i heard was a woosh of air gushing out from the base of top knob. I'm guessing its the orings that need replaced? my depress pin just falls out by itself, and pushing it back in place does nothing to hold it there.. The orings on the depress pin look fine, not ripped or torn or anything, just obviously not thick enough to make any sort of seal. these are the one's that need replaced? there isn't any orings between the depress pin and the top of the asa valve when it's sititing place or anything? there's nothing I'm missing? just pull off the old orings and put on the new ones and put it back in and everything should be a-okay again?


----------



## jjonesrjc

Definitely just the o rings. Kind of nice that this system is easily repaired the rings were about 1 dollar and you get 10 just make sure you get the right size. Best system for diy pressurized ever.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk


----------



## Jaggedfury

HolyAngel said:


> well went to refill my co2 tank and came back to put it on and screwed down the top to close the pin and all i heard was a woosh of air gushing out from the base of top knob. I'm guessing its the orings that need replaced? my depress pin just falls out by itself, and pushing it back in place does nothing to hold it there.. The orings on the depress pin look fine, not ripped or torn or anything, just obviously not thick enough to make any sort of seal. these are the one's that need replaced? there isn't any orings between the depress pin and the top of the asa valve when it's sititing place or anything? there's nothing I'm missing? just pull off the old orings and put on the new ones and put it back in and everything should be a-okay again?


You are correct. Parts numbers are on the previous 1-5 pages before this page. Use a pick and take it out then put slide new ones on. Push Depress Pin back in place and it will stay snug and tight.

I also refilled my Co2 tank after work today. This morning when I took off my ASA On/Off Valve, Depress Pin stayed in fine. No problem.

But I decided to just replace the 2 O rings on it so it doens't cause a problem down the line. 

Let me know how it goes.

Thanks
Jase


----------



## HolyAngel

Nice!

I'll buy em tomorrow and try hooking it up again 

Thanks guys!


----------



## parasuco

here is what i purchased so far, all i'm missing now is the paintball tank
























i hope this set up works


----------



## Jaggedfury

parasuco said:


> here is what i purchased so far, all i'm missing now is the paintball tank
> View attachment 30654
> 
> 
> View attachment 30655
> 
> 
> View attachment 30656
> 
> 
> i hope this set up works


Depending on that Valve you have there, it might work. Not sure how precise that Valve will let you adjust your output pressure.

Here's one of mines.


----------



## HolyAngel

well 3 days and 4 hardware stores later, i finally found some of the correct orings and bought them all lol. needless to say, they worked PERFECTLY 

thanks again ^^


----------



## awdriven

Jaggedfury said:


> Check for leaks. When checking for leaks, take a good few minutes having the setup dump in water and observe for any leaks. Small leaks can occur that takes a few seconds to arise. Any form of leak will drop the pressure of the set adjustment. Consistency should stay at exact adjustment.
> 
> It's been 5 months for mines and it's nearly almost empty. Had great results and sometime today I'm refilling my setup after work. I have 2 Paintball Co2 tanks to refill! Nearly less than $10 dollars to refill 2 Paintball Co2 tanks! Can't beat that!



I am having a similar problem with my setup. It works great at first but slowly loses pressure over a few hours.

I put the complete system under water and observed no leaks so my setup is air tight. Could the issue be the Watts needle valve? My other thought was that it could be the check valve not working properly under the lower pressure needed to produce 1-2 bubbles/sec. Any thoughts?


----------



## Jaggedfury

In the beginning of the project, I and a few members used the Watts Needle Valve sold at Homedepot and Lowes. According to some people, it wasn't good enough, but to me and a few other people it works. After a few research of finding out about the Watts Needle Valve, they are produced as LF or Non LF. LF are usually sold in California as LEAD FREE. I for one, was using the Watts LF Needle Valve. I'm not sure what folks bought and used but some worked, some didn't. Couldn't figured if it was a bad batch or not that was send out to the Homedepot and Lowes locations around the North America.

But since then, I myself went towards another Needle Valve that I can get my hands on at a mom and pop plumbing store locally here in my town. I've been using it for a few months now. Can't report any trouble other than plants are growing way too fast.


----------



## ADA

Can you think of any higher quality needle valves? Online even? What's the most sensitive one you can get?

Also, I have been trying to find out if anyone successfully hooked up a solenoid..?

Thanks!



Jaggedfury said:


> In the beginning of the project, I and a few members used the Watts Needle Valve sold at Homedepot and Lowes. According to some people, it wasn't good enough, but to me and a few other people it works. After a few research of finding out about the Watts Needle Valve, they are produced as LF or Non LF. LF are usually sold in California as LEAD FREE. I for one, was using the Watts LF Needle Valve. I'm not sure what folks bought and used but some worked, some didn't. Couldn't figured if it was a bad batch or not that was send out to the Homedepot and Lowes locations around the North America.
> 
> But since then, I myself went towards another Needle Valve that I can get my hands on at a mom and pop plumbing store locally here in my town. I've been using it for a few months now. Can't report any trouble other than plants are growing way too fast.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Swagelok Needle Valve, It's on Ebay. You will need a few other fittings to make it work.


----------



## do00ber

Jagged, i see that your on now so hopefully youll check this page

Ive had my setup going for a month or two and my results are inconsistent.
Im having trouble keeping pressure for over a day and my gauge jumps outta nowhere from like 800 --->300..
Ive been filling up and seeing 900 with everything full going..No leaks i checked underwater about 5 different times..
Im using a swagelok off ebay and everything is super teflon taped(like 5x).

Oh yeah and im running at 1bps or close to it.

I have to fill about every 2 weeks...

Any ideas about keeping the pressure up.. and how to extend the capacity..?


----------



## ADA

do00ber said:


> Jagged, i see that your on now so hopefully youll check this page
> 
> Ive had my setup going for a month or two and my results are inconsistent.
> Im having trouble keeping pressure for over a day and my gauge jumps outta nowhere from like 800 --->300..
> Ive been filling up and seeing 900 with everything full going..No leaks i checked underwater about 5 different times..
> Im using a swagelok off ebay and everything is super teflon taped(like 5x).
> 
> Oh yeah and im running at 1bps or close to it.
> 
> I have to fill about every 2 weeks...
> 
> Any ideas about keeping the pressure up.. and how to extend the capacity..?


wow.. 2 weeks!! ?? What size is your tank? I use a 20oz and a 9oz. The 20 lasts a LONG time at 1bps.. at least 5 or 6 months. The 9oz only lasts about 6 weeks. (way less than half the time)

The only thing I can think of, is that your tank is not being filled properly..? (maybe some of the more experienced guys will be able to figure out what's up, but it seems really strange that you're only getting 2 weeks).

I love these little Co2 systems that Jagged sells. They're so simple and look amazing, unlike the bulky ugly traditional type.. I'm a huge fan.


----------



## ADA

Jaggedfury said:


> Swagelok Needle Valve, It's on Ebay. You will need a few other fittings to make it work.


I just found this post on an OLD thread (2005)... Can you tell me if it is a feasible option? It seems to makes sense, to reduce the pressure on the needle valve.

_"Open the needle valve all the way then open the on/off slowly until you see bubbles from the supply line(in your aquarium) then adjust the needle valve to get your desired bubble rate. This works because your are only allowing a tiny amount of gas to escape through 2 separate devices, in effect creating a ghetto regulator. The on/off is acting as a regulator (sort of) by limiting the gas flow/pressure while being able to physically withstand 900psi head pressure of the gas in the cylinder. The needle valve is capable of handling a hundred+ psi which is all the on/off is allowing out (by being mostly closed)"


_Would this be safe? Would the on/of be sensitive enough, and would it be dangerous, to only just barely push the pin down on the tank enough to just let a tiny bit of Co2 escape? The OP also said that the needle valve is supposed to handle 100psi.. Does this mean that 800-900 is too much for a needle valve to handle on it's own?

Thanks


----------



## ADA

Here's another posting I found that is saying a similar thing.

_A full paintball tank at room temperature will be around 800 PSI. If you have a working pressure knob, I would turn it counter clockwise until it is closed. Don't force it, you just want to make sure you do not "peg" the working pressure gauge when you attach the paintball tank. I would then tighten the regulator onto the paintball tank. Attach some co2 hose to the needlevalve and turn the adjustment knob on the needlevalve counterclockwise till it is closed and then open it like 1/8 of a turn. Stick the end of the hose in a container of water so you will see bubbles when you open the working pressure knob. Now slowly open the the working pressure knob until you see the working pressure gauge go to 10 or 15 psi. If you see bubbles coming out of the hose, adjust the needle valve for 2 bubbles per second to start. If you don't see bubbles, turn the needlevalve until you see 2 bps._

Jagged, I think he's talking about a regulator, not the simple on/off that we are using, but would the on/off work as a "working pressure valve"? 

*
So, here's how your instructions are (or at least how I understood them..)*

a. Connect the paintball tank (making sure that the on/off is set to OFF)
b. With the needle valve CLOSED, turn the on/off valve all the way ON.
c. Slowly open the needle valve to desired bps.

This way puts about 800-900psi of pressure on the needle valve, right?


*
Would this way work instead, and if so, would it be a more stable and more controllable way? *

a. Connect the paintball tank (making sure that the on/off is set to OFF)
b. Open the needle valve about 1/8 of a turn.
c. Very slowly turn the on/off valve clockwise until the peg is just being slightly pushed, just enough for the Co2 to start to release, maybe a few bps.
d. Use needle valve to fine tune to desired bps.


Thanks again.. I'm not saying your instructions are wrong, in any way. I know you're the expert, I'm just a little concerned after reading that a needle valve shouldn't be loaded with more than 100psi.. 800-900 is scary! Can you please let me know if you have tried both ways, or if there is a reason option number two would not be feasible?


----------



## do00ber

Yeah well it doesnt help that every once in a while trying to get my swagelok to turn slowly it gets stuck and all of a sudden too much pressure and I over crank it and my diffuser goes from dead to blowing out a gigantic bubble..thats prob 100-200 psi gone right there..


----------



## Jaggedfury

do00ber said:


> Jagged, i see that your on now so hopefully youll check this page
> 
> Ive had my setup going for a month or two and my results are inconsistent.
> Im having trouble keeping pressure for over a day and my gauge jumps outta nowhere from like 800 --->300..
> Ive been filling up and seeing 900 with everything full going..No leaks i checked underwater about 5 different times..
> Im using a swagelok off ebay and everything is super teflon taped(like 5x).
> 
> Oh yeah and im running at 1bps or close to it.
> 
> I have to fill about every 2 weeks...
> 
> Any ideas about keeping the pressure up.. and how to extend the capacity..?


Are you 100% positive there isn't any leak? How are you testing the setup for leaks? Dump the entire setup FULLY submersed in water with your hands holding it down is the correct way to do it. If you think about the setup, there's several entry/exit points. Anywhere there is a entry/exit point is possible for a leak if not teflon tape right. On the teflon tape, I go 6-8 rounds. I've just done this on 2 of my setup 3-4 days ago after I refilled my co2 tank that last a little over 5 months. It's holding great and still works fine. Also on the teflon tape, make sure you're going the right direction when putting it on also. It does matter.

As far as I known, everyone that uses the Swagelok Needle Valve have great success. I'm not sure where you're problem resides at. If you say there isn't any leak and the setup is set right. Where does the pressure drop? I would think a set pressure on the Swagelok Needle Valve or any Needle Valve would hold pressure unless elsewhere it creeps out. Even 1 tiny bubble per 1 minute that forms and leaks will cause you're set pressure to drop. 

I've explain this so many times and people come back saying thanks they found the leak(s). 

It's okay to fully submerse the entire paintball co2 tank with the unit on it and have it open just a little bit and dump it into a 5 gallon bucket. I perfer if you dump it in a 10 gallon tank side ways and spin the Paintball Co2 Tank Cylinder and observe the entry/exit points of connections.


----------



## Jaggedfury

ADA said:


> Here's another posting I found that is saying a similar thing.
> 
> _A full paintball tank at room temperature will be around 800 PSI. If you have a working pressure knob, I would turn it counter clockwise until it is closed. Don't force it, you just want to make sure you do not "peg" the working pressure gauge when you attach the paintball tank. I would then tighten the regulator onto the paintball tank. Attach some co2 hose to the needlevalve and turn the adjustment knob on the needlevalve counterclockwise till it is closed and then open it like 1/8 of a turn. Stick the end of the hose in a container of water so you will see bubbles when you open the working pressure knob. Now slowly open the the working pressure knob until you see the working pressure gauge go to 10 or 15 psi. If you see bubbles coming out of the hose, adjust the needle valve for 2 bubbles per second to start. If you don't see bubbles, turn the needlevalve until you see 2 bps._
> 
> Jagged, I think he's talking about a regulator, not the simple on/off that we are using, but would the on/off work as a "working pressure valve"?
> 
> 
> *So, here's how your instructions are (or at least how I understood them..)*
> 
> a. Connect the paintball tank (making sure that the on/off is set to OFF)
> b. With the needle valve CLOSED, turn the on/off valve all the way ON.
> c. Slowly open the needle valve to desired bps.
> 
> This way puts about 800-900psi of pressure on the needle valve, right?
> 
> 
> 
> *Would this way work instead, and if so, would it be a more stable and more controllable way? *
> 
> a. Connect the paintball tank (making sure that the on/off is set to OFF)
> b. Open the needle valve about 1/8 of a turn.
> c. Very slowly turn the on/off valve clockwise until the peg is just being slightly pushed, just enough for the Co2 to start to release, maybe a few bps.
> d. Use needle valve to fine tune to desired bps.
> 
> 
> Thanks again.. I'm not saying your instructions are wrong, in any way. I know you're the expert, I'm just a little concerned after reading that a needle valve shouldn't be loaded with more than 100psi.. 800-900 is scary! Can you please let me know if you have tried both ways, or if there is a reason option number two would not be feasible?


There's no need for a regulator. The setup works fine without it. It's doesn't work so fine when you start adding all these mumbo jumbo stuff to it. It's made as a very simple and easy way to inject co2 into your system. Overdoing it will just cause you more problems.


----------



## Moody636

I wanted to chime in and let people know how I found my leak when I was convinced there wasn't one.

Set your needle valve to a couple bbs and hold the whole unit under water. While holding it under water plug the output with your finger.

After I tried this I found a very small leak that only appeared when it was under some pressure. After fixing this my co2 now holds a steady rate.

Edit: the leak was coming from within the asa valve. I put some teflon tape inside the valve and it's good as new (for now at least).

Sent from my AK-47 using Tapatalk


----------



## bryfox86

is there anyone that puts these together and sells them?? I need one but being stationed here in Hawaii all the shopping would kill me for so many little parts... PM me if you do this please!


----------



## ADA

bryfox86 said:


> is there anyone that puts these together and sells them?? I need one but being stationed here in Hawaii all the shopping would kill me for so many little parts... PM me if you do this please!


JaggedFury (the OP) sells them, AND ships to Hawaii! I just received mine a week ago (I'm in Hawaii).


----------



## do00ber

Jaggedfury said:


> Are you 100% positive there isn't any leak? How are you testing the setup for leaks? Dump the entire setup FULLY submersed in water with your hands holding it down is the correct way to do it. If you think about the setup, there's several entry/exit points. Anywhere there is a entry/exit point is possible for a leak if not teflon tape right. On the teflon tape, I go 6-8 rounds. I've just done this on 2 of my setup 3-4 days ago after I refilled my co2 tank that last a little over 5 months. It's holding great and still works fine. Also on the teflon tape, make sure you're going the right direction when putting it on also. It does matter.
> 
> As far as I known, everyone that uses the Swagelok Needle Valve have great success. I'm not sure where you're problem resides at. If you say there isn't any leak and the setup is set right. Where does the pressure drop? I would think a set pressure on the Swagelok Needle Valve or any Needle Valve would hold pressure unless elsewhere it creeps out. Even 1 tiny bubble per 1 minute that forms and leaks will cause you're set pressure to drop.
> 
> I've explain this so many times and people come back saying thanks they found the leak(s).
> 
> It's okay to fully submerse the entire paintball co2 tank with the unit on it and have it open just a little bit and dump it into a 5 gallon bucket. I perfer if you dump it in a 10 gallon tank side ways and spin the Paintball Co2 Tank Cylinder and observe the entry/exit points of connections.


Yeah i pulled the ole fullly submerged in my huge bucket with it at around 1bps and 2bps..nothing..Im guessing that the initial loss of co2 from when i try to get it first setup after a refill is killing me plus once in a while an overcrank of the swagelok letting out an atomic bomb of a bubble..

Ive always tried to bring the on/off valve all the way down with the swagelok but it starts coming out the top of the on/off (losing a good deal of c02) so next time im gonna only bring the on/off valve down until it hits 800-900 psi and then open my swagelok a little..I think you suggested that method in a few pages back..
I think whats tricking me is between losing that initial pressure from the top and the atomic bomb bubble the psi gauge moves really slow so it will stay 800-900 and then before i know it its practically empty...
Ill keep u posted when i get it refilled..


----------



## Jaggedfury

Where exactly is is leaking off the top of the on/off valve as you stated?

There can only be 2 possible leak coming off the top of the ASA on/off valve from the unit I provide here.

If it leaks at the top of the on/off valve as you stated, it's more likely the 2 o rings on the depress pin within the asa on/off valve or the hex screw thread isn't tight. (Only on my setup)

If it's any other ASA On/off Valve, I wouldn't be able to help you much. I dealt with a few ASA On/Off Valve but not all of them.

Shoot me a picture of your system if you dont mind either through PM or here.


----------



## do00ber

Okay im gonna re-set it up in the morning ill let you know what happens im gonna try a different technique when rigging it up this time though..if still [censored][censored][censored][censored]ting out on me ill post a pic


----------



## do00ber

New problem..LOL. Pin valve or something is not being depressed by my on/off..i tried with a different co2 tank and it depressed that one and the gauge shot up..

There is Co2 in it because ive been using the back sharp end of a hammer and depressing the pin valve myself..every once in a while co2 shoots out but my asa is still not pressing it hard enough or whatever.. UGHHH


----------



## S4UCE

What causes the O-rings on the ASA valve to go bad? My tank emptied, so I pulled it off, put my second tank on, tightened down the valve, and the second it depressed the pin, CO2 started rushing out of top of the ASA. With all the problems and inconsistencies, I'm starting to think I should have just ponied up the cash for a legitimate pressurized CO2 setup.


----------



## Jaggedfury

S4UCE said:


> What causes the O-rings on the ASA valve to go bad? My tank emptied, so I pulled it off, put my second tank on, tightened down the valve, and the second it depressed the pin, CO2 started rushing out of top of the ASA. With all the problems and inconsistencies, I'm starting to think I should have just ponied up the cash for a legitimate pressurized CO2 setup.


The cause of this is pressure pushing up on the Depress Pin. Thus preventing it from leakage. Overtime, or during a refill, it's just a maintance thing to do.

Unless you purchase the higher end ASA On/Off Valve that uses a fixed pin to depress the Pin Valve on the Paintball Co2 tanks, you don't need to replace the O rings. But keep in mind, when the fixed pin goes bad, you most likely won't find single parts to fix it other than forking up $30-$60 dollars for the same higher end ASA On/Off Valve..

I"m not sure how long your getting your Paintball Co2 system to last, but for me, 5-6 months is not bad at all. Forking up the cents to a dollar for packages of O rings to replace the Depress Pin 2 O rings is well worth it. Even if you're refilling your Paintball Co2 system every month, replacing the 2 O rings afterward refill is still very cost effective. Cents to dollar gets you a few O rings for replacement. Keep some in handy.

Standards Co2 2lbs + system also have rubber seals to replace as well. Don't think you can get away without replacing them. If you're lucky, it might last a 1 to 2 refill to where you don't have to refill it. But these Rubber rings/washer/seals are available for Paintball Co2 system as well as the Standard 2lbs + also.

You're dealing with pressure gas, they get worn out. Just that simple.

If you don't feel like forking up less than $1 dollar to purchase a package of O rings to replace the parts, better off sticking to DIY yeast fermentations.

NOTE: Standard Co2 2lbs + sysems replacement washer/seals are more expensive.


----------



## S4UCE

Hey Jagged, thanks for the response. Didn't realize those o-rings needed to be replaced so frequently. I'll be ordering up a big bag of those bad boys. Sorry if my comment was a bit brash. Just frustrated I guess!

EDIT: I'm stumped. Where can I order these?


----------



## Jaggedfury

I've ordered them from my vendor where I get my PB supplies at. Of course your not going to need 500 of them. 

You can purchase them at Lowes/Homedepot as well. They sell them 3-10 per package and it's fairly cheap.

Here is Lowe's product number. This one is 10 per package.









Should cost cent to a dollar at most. Prices differs from store to store.


----------



## Betta Maniac

Well, I now know why my CO2 disappeared overnight. My on/off failed just like the ones that everyone is talking about here, but it failed after only about a month of use. Right now it's bleeding out the new CO2 fill I just got. *grrrrr*


----------



## do00ber

I just wanna add in that after months of trying different things and whatnot..I experienced pressure losses after days..refills after a few weeks..Trouble initially establishing the pressure without losing alot of c02...
Anyway the point of this post is to tell people who are looking to set this system up that if theyre gonna try to buy different asas..or needle valves then what jagged has posted..your better off not even trying, i tried 3 different asa and none of them worked as perfect as the one jagged eventually sold to me..
I used a swagelok from ebay, tubing from home depot (not made for icemaker), other brass pieces from ace/home depot and the pb tank from amazon.

I tried 3 different asas and the only thing that truly worked 100% efficiently after all said and done was the one jagged sells.

So for newcomers to this thread..dish out the $ for jagged stuff, you wont be dissapointed and wont waste money with crappy asas and stuff.
Best advice i can give..Teflon tape everything and use a wrench to tighten everything just to the point where it is maxed out..

+1 Jaggedfury


----------



## shrimpNewbie

Jagged do you sell these set ups? or at least some of the parts from what I've read through your thread alot of people have problems because they are using the wrong valves and not maintaining them correctly, if you could please pm me with what you have if you sell them or links to exactly what you used, thanks. also probably getting a better needle valve


----------



## Sd760

Awesome


----------



## Jaggedfury

shrimpNewbie said:


> Jagged do you sell these set ups? or at least some of the parts from what I've read through your thread alot of people have problems because they are using the wrong valves and not maintaining them correctly, if you could please pm me with what you have if you sell them or links to exactly what you used, thanks. also probably getting a better needle valve


You got PM'ed. I answered most if not all you're questions.


----------



## Sd760

lol nm my pm furry. i was viewing on my phone


----------



## Betta Maniac

When I replace these, should I use a lubricant?


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## Jaggedfury

No lube is needed. It's one of those maintance items that should be replaced when refilling you're co2 tank.


----------



## Betta Maniac

Cool. Thanks.


----------



## Aquariumboy123

wow thanks very useful information


----------



## HolyAngel

has anyone got one of those jbj brass bubble counters to work on their system? I bought a couple last week and from the initial trying, i couldn't get the bottom end to screw onto the end of the needlevalve even though it looks like it should.. 

Im thinking im going to need an elbow fitting for them to work(1 so it can attach and 2 so that the BC isn't sitting horizontal and i can actually read the bubble count).

Basically just wondering if anyone knows the fitting or what i can do or if i have to use a different bubble counter entirely...


----------



## oldpunk78

You are going to need a 1/4 tube to 1/8 npt adapter plus a 1/8 street elbow.


----------



## HolyAngel

Thank you!!


----------



## Betta Maniac

HolyAngel said:


> has anyone got one of those jbj brass bubble counters to work on their system?


Yes, but I had to get the proper size fittings (I also swapped needle valves for one with a higher rating). You can see what I did below (t-joint plus 2 1/4 to 1/8 adapters). 

I was really popping in to say that changing the o-rings out not only fixed the on/off (as I knew it would), but for the first time the rig has held a steady bubble count for 24hrs+. Before, I had to adjust it multiple times a day. This little bit of maintenance will now happen at every refill AND anytime the bubble count won't hold steady!


----------



## Ben.

Hey Jagged, I had a question about one of the Watts needle valves. In your pictures the end where the tubing goes only has a nut and a compression ring. The one I purchased has three parts, the nut, compression ring, and an extra tubing extender? Is it ok if I can't get the compression ring out and just slip it into both nut and ring then the extender?

pics


----------



## Jaggedfury

I've dealt with that Needle Valve before. It's called a Angled Needle Valve. 

That Compression Ring that reside on the Nut needs to be remove in order to use the Nipple to tubing piece to adapt onto the correct size Co2 tubing.

If you do not want to remove the Compression Ring, the correct size Co2 tubing won't fit over the Nipple to tubing piece.

If you find it difficult to remove the Compression Ring from that Nut, You can purchase just the Nut at Homedepot/Lowes that doesn't have the Compression Ring on it. This method would be much easier, since it comes 3 per package for the Nuts. 

Afterward, you are able to use the Nipple to tubing piece that you have there with ease. Correct size Co2 tubing will slide into the Nut then slide the Nipple to tubing piece in thereafter. Teflon Tape the two thread areas on the Needle Valve and hand tighten it down then wrench it down.


----------



## Ben.

How did you remove the compression ring? If I can't I'll go buy some of the nuts.

EDIT: got it out, Thanks for everything Jagged Oh and whats the name of the girl on your profile again? I forgot what page it was on


----------



## Jaggedfury

Ben. said:


> How did you remove the compression ring? If I can't I'll go buy some of the nuts.
> 
> EDIT: got it out, Thanks for everything Jagged Oh and whats the name of the girl on your profile again? I forgot what page it was on


I'll help you with everything else related to the PB Co2 Setup, but can't help you with "females" lol. roud:


----------



## Cento

coldmantis said:


> the thing about the o rings leaking on the adapters is what pissed me off, because of this I have gone few quite a couple of adapters. I find that if it leaks and you replaced the oring it's never the same as before, I started recently in the pass month to transition all my paintball co2 to a regulator setup google for " jacpac" it's basicly a kit that comes with a regulator that fits onto a paintball tank and it also comes with a 9oz paintball tank and the best part was it was on sale here in canada got it for 20 bucks, rigged it up with the swagelok and omg it's amazing you won't believe how much easier it is to adjust the bubble rate when your not going against 850psi of pressure and on how steady it is, all I can say is wow even after 2 weeks it's still steady to the millisecond that I originally set it before, and with this setup a solenoid is a easy addition. All I can say is that if you want 3bps, 2bps, 1bps, 1b per 10secs this does that effortlessly.


 
Hey, from the pictures in your post, I noticed that it appears have your regulator directly (besides perhaps an adapter) to the paintball tank; no on/off valve between the two.... Is that the case? If so, how did you hook yours up?

I haven't set mine up yet, but I anticipated a problem since, i believe, that the adapter that I'm attaching to the tank is only designed to open the paintball tank valve all the way... I was curious how this would affect attaching the regulator to the tank...??


----------



## ananananda

thanks for the great thread, have had my setup for about 2-3 weeks now and love how easy and cheap it was.

i went with the standard watts needle valve from home depot, mine is NOT lead free. the first week i was disappointed that it could not keep a steady bubble rate but i did not mind it dropping off at night as i was running it very slowly to acclimate my fish/shrimp to the CO2 carefully.

i decided to just bump it up every morning manually and readjust it daily but for whatever reason once i finally notched it up to about 2bps it stopped slowing down, its been steady for over a week now.

will eventually go with a regulator/solenoid of some sort just so i don't waste CO2 all night.

anyways, just wanted to share my success story.

love the system, thanks again!


----------



## Piloswine

Hi Jaggedfury,

I set up a system similar to yours yesterday, using the watts a-41 lf needle valve. The first time I turned it on, it worked perfectly. I turned it off overnight and when I turned it on again today, no gas is coming out. Even when I put the hose directly into the tank with no diffuser, no bubbles are forming at the end of the hose. I did a leak test yesterday (held it underwater) and there weren't any leaks. The tank still is full, so I don't think it leaked out overnight. Any suggestions?


----------



## Jaggedfury

ananananda said:


> thanks for the great thread, have had my setup for about 2-3 weeks now and love how easy and cheap it was.
> 
> i went with the standard watts needle valve from home depot, mine is NOT lead free. the first week i was disappointed that it could not keep a steady bubble rate but i did not mind it dropping off at night as i was running it very slowly to acclimate my fish/shrimp to the CO2 carefully.
> 
> i decided to just bump it up every morning manually and readjust it daily but for whatever reason once i finally notched it up to about 2bps it stopped slowing down, its been steady for over a week now.
> 
> will eventually go with a regulator/solenoid of some sort just so i don't waste CO2 all night.
> 
> anyways, just wanted to share my success story.
> 
> love the system, thanks again!


Awesome!



Piloswine said:


> Hi Jaggedfury,
> 
> I set up a system similar to yours yesterday, using the watts a-41 lf needle valve. The first time I turned it on, it worked perfectly. I turned it off overnight and when I turned it on again today, no gas is coming out. Even when I put the hose directly into the tank with no diffuser, no bubbles are forming at the end of the hose. I did a leak test yesterday (held it underwater) and there weren't any leaks. The tank still is full, so I don't think it leaked out overnight. Any suggestions?


In your case, if this problem occurred, I would first look at the ASA On/Off Valve that you purchased somewhere else. I say this because when you shut it off overnight and turn it on in the morning to find out it stop working can result from a Depress Pin/Fix Pin not doing it's purpose in depressing the Pin Valve on the Paintball Co2 Tank.

Another thing that can cause this, will be your Pin Valve on the Paintball Co2 Tank itself. It's the thread on the Paintball Co2 Tank. Since you are positive the Paintball Co2 Tank is full, don't try to alter anything on the Paintball Co2 Tank. I would highly recommend you to take the Paintball Co2 Tank to a Sport Industry store where they will empty your Paintball Co2 Tank first th en refill your Paintball Co2 Tank and test the Pin Valve to see if it leaks, hold pressure, or the Pin Valve just frozed. 

It's not your Needle Valve, that I'm certain. Needle Valve only closes and open to the adjustment of a Handle.

I would check the ASA On/Off Valve that you've bought somewhere, and I take it you know your ASA On/Off Valves and that you bought the right kind.

If the Paintball Co2 Tank fills lighter than what it was after it was refilled, it might just be empty. 

A Gauge can also become defective as well and the Needle Arm on the Gauge will be stuck at a certain psi even when the Paintball Co2 Tank is empty.

Troubleshoot the above and keep me updated.

Thanks
Jase


----------



## winniemagic

Betta Maniac said:


> Yes, but I had to get the proper size fittings (I also swapped needle valves for one with a higher rating). You can see what I did below (t-joint plus 2 1/4 to 1/8 adapters).
> 
> I was really popping in to say that changing the o-rings out not only fixed the on/off (as I knew it would), but for the first time the rig has held a steady bubble count for 24hrs+. Before, I had to adjust it multiple times a day. This little bit of maintenance will now happen at every refill AND anytime the bubble count won't hold steady!


Hey Betta Maniac,
What kind of bubble counter is that? Are you using the Swagelok Needle Valve? I really like the looks of that setup. 

Jagged, 
Thanks so much for setting up this thread. This is the best thread ever! Thanks! 

Sorry if someone already asked this questions but, if I was planning on using This setup. Can I just replace the yeast with this paintball CO2? 
Have you had any success adding solenoids to this system? (If I ever wanted to go that rout in the future)

Thanks again!


----------



## Jaggedfury

That setup your referring to is DIY Yeast fermentation, I took a brief reading of it. You can replace the DIY Yeast fermentation with Pressurized Co2 system as well, for example the Paintball Co2 setup.

A solenoid have been discussed many times, not much experiment has gone towards it but a couple of folks are using it on the Paintball Co2 setup. 

Do a research on solenoid and see what happends. With a solenoid, a regulator will be needed. First and foremost, couplers and fittings will need to be bought and sized up in order for the solenoid and regulator to be coupled onto the Paintball Co2 ASA On/off Valve.


----------



## pomby27

hey, this tubing doesn't seem to fit as snug as it looks in your picture, i have the nut on the tubing, but it slides, should i opt for a wider diameter tubing?
http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752199


----------



## Jaggedfury

pomby27 said:


> hey, this tubing doesn't seem to fit as snug as it looks in your picture, i have the nut on the tubing, but it slides, should i opt for a wider diameter tubing?
> http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752199


That air tubing on the link provided above won't work. The correct size co2 tubing can be bought at Homedepot/Lowes. It's their smallest size co2 tubing that they carry.


----------



## yuw1wang

darkcrisis said:


> This might have been posted before, but I thought it would be worth posting again. If it is in here, I must have missed the post.
> 
> I bought option #4 from Jagged and I am completely satisfied with the product!
> 
> I only had one issue during setup:
> 
> I could NOT get the compression ring to stay straight. It kept pinching the CO2 line. I went to home depot and bought 3 more and bent all three of them.
> 
> I went back and spoke to a Home Depot employee. He showed me the *WATTS A-4 961-P Ander-Lign Compression Nut 1/4" OD w/Insert*. It was only about $3.00 and it gives a fool proof install (which I need!) After that the system is up and running. I did drop the CO2 difuser and it broke :angryfire


 I got this as well from Homedepot but I can't get it to fit on the 
Swagelok Needle Valve (B-OVM2-BKB) because the built-in compression 
sleeve is pressing aginst the flat end from the needle valve preventing the 
threads to catch. This is my first time working with needle valves with
compression nuts so I'm not sure if it just needs a little force.


----------



## Jaggedfury

The Swagelok Needle Valve is not a Compression Output thread, therefore, the Watts A-4 you bought there will not work at all. 

What you should have purchase is the following from Watts.

Watts A-15 LF Tube to Fip Adapter 1/4'' to 1/8''. When I purchased it a while back, it's $2.06 for it.

It should look like this. The very far right 3rd item on the paper of mines labeled here.









This is how it should look like once installed on the Swagelok Needle Valve.










I hope that helps. The above quote that you quoted from "darkcrisis" is referring to the useage of a different Needle Valve that is not Swagelok.

Anyhow, the part you need is Watts A-15 LF Tube to Fip Adapter 1/4'' to 1/8''


----------



## yuw1wang

Jaggedfury said:


> The Swagelok Needle Valve is not a Compression Output thread, therefore, the Watts A-4 you bought there will not work at all.
> 
> What you should have purchase is the following from Watts.
> 
> Watts A-15 LF Tube to Fip Adapter 1/4'' to 1/8''. When I purchased it a while back, it's $2.06 for it.
> 
> It should look like this. The very far right 3rd item on the paper of mines labeled here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is how it should look like once installed on the Swagelok Needle Valve.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope that helps. The above quote that you quoted from "darkcrisis" is referring to the useage of a different Needle Valve that is not Swagelok.
> 
> Anyhow, the part you need is Watts A-15 LF Tube to Fip Adapter 1/4'' to 1/8''


 
wow thank you for such quick reply and also thank you for starting this post as I'm like almost everyone here is looking for an economical co2 rig! I'll go grab the adapter tomorrow and try again.


----------



## Jaggedfury

No problem. And do use as much Teflon Tape as the picture above. Last thing you want are leaks.


----------



## yuw1wang

Jaggedfury said:


> No problem. And do use as much Teflon Tape as the picture above. Last thing you want are leaks.


I got the part from Lowe's and the guy helping me recommended yellow teflon tapes instead of white. He said the yellow ones have higher teflon densities and can seal better for gas applications. Do you have any experience with those?


----------



## kevmo911

yuw1wang said:


> I got the part from Lowe's and the guy helping me recommended yellow teflon tapes instead of white. He said the yellow ones have higher teflon densities and can seal better for gas applications. Do you have any experience with those?


As I understand it, the only difference between the tapes is thickness. So the white tape will work just as well if you wrap it more times.


----------



## Jaggedfury

For folks that have purchased my product, I've updated a photo illustration for basic setup. This also works the same for most ASA On/Off Valve on the market as well, very simple setup.

*Basic Step for Installing Co2 Tubing onto Needle Valve. *










*Overall Setup Installation once said and done.*










This is also on the first page if anyone need to refer back to it.


----------



## ADA

Jagged, can you please tell me if this would work, and would it be a good option? http://www.ansgear.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=CCMDOVETAILASASLV&click=96887

Thanks!


----------



## genomer

Random question. When I tightened my swagelok onto my ASA, the spot at which is was fully tightened made the orientation such that the needle valve isn't 'upright' as it is in all of these pics on here, ie all the pics on this page. It works fine, but I'm wondering why no one else's set-ups look like this. Do you guys stop threading the needle valve onto the ASA before it's fully tightened to keep it oriented as such? I find it hard to believe that everyone's valves happened to be fully seated in the same position.


----------



## Jaggedfury

ADA said:


> Jagged, can you please tell me if this would work, and would it be a good option? http://www.ansgear.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=CCMDOVETAILASASLV&click=96887
> 
> Thanks!


That will work fine. As far as it being 2 threaded or not, you might have to call the online store and ask them. It shows that it's out of stock though.

As far as being a good option, unsure of it but it will screw onto the Paintball Co2 Tank's Pin Valve and function.




genomer said:


> Random question. When I tightened my swagelok onto my ASA, the spot at which is was fully tightened made the orientation such that the needle valve isn't 'upright' as it is in all of these pics on here, ie all the pics on this page. It works fine, but I'm wondering why no one else's set-ups look like this. Do you guys stop threading the needle valve onto the ASA before it's fully tightened to keep it oriented as such? I find it hard to believe that everyone's valves happened to be fully seated in the same position.


That all depends on how many rounds of Teflon Tape that went around your thread of the Swagelok Needle Valve. You can use between 4-10 rounds and depending from whatever rounds of Teflon Tape you used, it will determine how the Swagelok Needle Valve will position itself when it's tighten down. 

I believed mine was 8 rounds, because I did remember using 6 rounds and it didnt' seat itself upright so I redid it a bit more. Almost positive on that but keep in mind that not all Swagelok Needle Valve are made the same. CNC machine cutting and making and such might be off a bit on the threads so each Swagelok Needle Valve varies. Try using different rounds of Teflon Tape above 4-10 and see.


----------



## genomer

Jaggedfury said:


> That will work fine. As far as it being 2 threaded or not, you might have to call the online store and ask them. It shows that it's out of stock though.
> 
> As far as being a good option, unsure of it but it will screw onto the Paintball Co2 Tank's Pin Valve and function.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That all depends on how many rounds of Teflon Tape that went around your thread of the Swagelok Needle Valve. You can use between 4-10 rounds and depending from whatever rounds of Teflon Tape you used, it will determine how the Swagelok Needle Valve will position itself when it's tighten down.
> 
> I believed mine was 8 rounds, because I did remember using 6 rounds and it didnt' seat itself upright so I redid it a bit more. Almost positive on that but keep in mind that not all Swagelok Needle Valve are made the same. CNC machine cutting and making and such might be off a bit on the threads so each Swagelok Needle Valve varies. Try using different rounds of Teflon Tape above 4-10 and see.


I figured some more teflon tape would do the trick; seemed to be the only logical solution. Thanks man  BTW-I'll be ordering an asa with gauge from you today. I tried to go cheap and learned a lesson. Haha.


----------



## genomer

I'd like to say that I think it's super awesome that Jagged spends so much time answering all of our questions (and pms, I assume) regarding this set-up, even those posed by people (such as myself) that made our own set-ups and didn't buy them. Really cool


----------



## Jaggedfury

genomer said:


> I figured some more teflon tape would do the trick; seemed to be the only logical solution. Thanks man BTW-I'll be ordering an asa with gauge from you today. I tried to go cheap and learned a lesson. Haha.


No problem. Just let me know.

Thanks
Jase


----------



## ADA

I was wondering if this would work (ASA without an on/off knob)

It has the two holes, one for needle valve and one for gauge. Would this actually be better than an on/off asa, because it would eliminate the possibility of leaks in the knob.. more simple..?

Another cool thing, is that you could hang the whole tank/setup on a hook using those holes in the top..


----------



## Jim Miller

Looks like a good idea. 

Jim


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## ADA

Jim Miller said:


> Looks like a good idea.
> 
> Jim


The only think I would worry about, is screwing on the tank.. would a lot of Co2 get lost during screwing it on?


----------



## Jim Miller

Nope. Just spin it on. 

Jim


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## ADA

Jim Miller said:


> Nope. Just spin it on.
> 
> Jim


Nice!! Thanks. I can't wait. Is there supposed to be a rubber washer of some sort inside the ASA where the paintball tank screws in? I have another ASA that doesn't have anything there. It's just metal on metal.. Thanks again


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## Jim Miller

The tank is supposed to have an O-ring which is the only seal needed if the ASA is properly machined. No tape, no other seals...

Any place that fills PB cylinders will have the O-rings.

Jim


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## chumlee

I use the same thing (not the same one specifically, but its not an on/off)...It works fine, no c02 loss. there's not supposed to be an o ring in the ASa, there is supposed to be one on the tank though.


----------



## ADA

Jim Miller said:


> The tank is supposed to have an O-ring which is the only seal needed if the ASA is properly machined. No tape, no other seals...
> 
> Any place that fills PB cylinders will have the O-rings.
> 
> Jim


That make sense. Thanks


----------



## ADA

chumlee said:


> I use the same thing (not the same one specifically, but its not an on/off)...It works fine, no c02 loss. there's not supposed to be an o ring in the ASa, there is supposed to be one on the tank though.


Awesome. I wonder if the on/off really serves a purpose at all... ? Unless people are turning it off at night, it seems like one more unnecessary thing that can go wrong.


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## steeltowninwv

*leak arouns compression ring*

my setup keeps leaking around the compression ring...took it apart and retaped about 3000 times now...its not tape issue..its leaking around the now bent compression ring


----------



## Jim Miller

What compression ring? Where are you taping? Does your ASA have an ON/OFF knob?

Jim


----------



## Jaggedfury

The Compression Ring as stated numerous times that it is a solid ring state before "Crimping". As you install co2 tubing through the Nut, then onto the Compression Ring, as you tighten down the Nut, it "Compresses" the Compression Ring from a solid ring state to a "Crimping" state to where it "Crimps" onto the Co2 tubing. 

If it was done right, there should be no leak at that area. If you screwed up the first time, you might be lucky enough to use a Needle Nose Plier to re-open the Compression Ring for another chance at it. 

The Compression Ring is SUPPOSE to tilt as you tighten the Nut. The end result is a tilted Comperssion Ring. It will also be crimped onto the co2 tubing as well. But some folks have shown me photos that their Compression Ring doesn't tilt and ask if that is a problem at all. As long as the Nut is tighten down with a wrench. After everything is said and done, you can give it a hard yank on the co2 tubing and it will hold tight. This is a sign that you've tighten it down right. 

There are other output fittings that will work as well besides the Compression Ring.

Watts A-41 Ander-Lign Compression Nut has a nipple to tubing connection. I can't agree if this will be "easier" for you or not. 

The Compression Rings is what majority of the peeps used and I used also.










If you need replacement Compression Ring, Homedepot/Lowes sells that also. They are 1/4'' Compression Ring. I don't recall the exact part number but Homedepot only has 4 Compression Rings. 1/8'', 1/4'', 3/4'' and 3/8''. Since the Needle Valve is 1/8'' NPT to 1/4'' Compression it only leaves you with the option of fitting 1/4'' Compression Ring. It's sold at 3 pieces per bag for $2.16 I believed, been awhile prices varies.


----------



## sayurasem

i got a question on co2 tank. went to walmart and found 20oz. for 24.97.... i think thats pretty expensive...

and went to lowes... they dont have "co2 tubing" but they have vynil tubing looks like ordinary aquarium tubing exept more "sturdier" plastic. (hard feel when you pinch the tube, but still pinchable)


----------



## sayurasem

Jaggedfury said:


> I've been getting alot of messages about certain type of Valves to use. If you find something that resemble this type of On and Off Valve, it will work. I wouldn't use any of the other Mini On and Off Valves that are on [Ebay Link Removed] The On and Off Valve should be about 4 inches long. This is another one of my setup, but I decided not to use a gauge on it. So it's just capped off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hope that helps alot better.



so how do you capped that off? twist a nut sealed with teflon tape?? or what is that?


----------



## steeltowninwv

ok so there is no leaks now...when i put the hose in a cup of water and set it to about 1.5 bubbles per minute co2 is coming out the end of the tube obviosly..then i put the diffuser on and nothing is coming out...


----------



## steeltowninwv

ok its going now..just took a few minutes...its a little stream coming out of the diffuser....is this the way it should be?


----------



## sayurasem

where to buy "asa" on off valve? is asa brand name? or type of valve?

went to a near paintball shop they dont even have on/off valve...


----------



## ADA

sayurasem said:


> where to buy "asa" on off valve? is asa brand name? or type of valve?
> 
> went to a near paintball shop they dont even have on/off valve...


ASA is not a brand, it stands for Air Source Adapter. Ebay is a good place to find one. If you're unsure of what to get, you could just get a kit from JaggedFury here in the forums. His kits are all tested and working, and don't cost much more than you'll pay getting all the parts for yourself.


----------



## ADA

steeltowninwv said:


> ok its going now..just took a few minutes...its a little stream coming out of the diffuser....is this the way it should be?


Hm, not sure if you'd call it a "stream".. it should look more like a fine mist of bubbles if it's working right. What kind of diffuser do you have?


----------



## sayurasem

Jaggedfury said:


> Nope problem.
> 
> Ok people. I finally had a chance to go check out the co2 tubing. I got the Part number, description, model number for you all.
> 
> *Co2 Tubing will be 1/4'' Vinyl Tubing SV3/8x1/4x10'. For a 10 Feet tubing, it's $2.98.
> Model Number: SVGE10
> Store Item Number: 16813
> 
> If you're buying by Per foot, it's listed as 1/4'' OD Vinyl Tubing.
> 
> Or you can purchase it by 1 foot for .14 cent each. *


ok so is the tube SVEB10 OR SVGE10??? on your first post you said sveb10 and i checked on home depot its just a "clear vinyl tubiing" nothing mention about co2 tubing.


----------



## ADA

Here's my new setup!

Swagelok Needle Valve, Watts Needlevalve (will replace for Swagelok asap)

CP ASA On/Off

20oz PB tank.


----------



## steeltowninwv

well its been set up for 2 days now.....it wont stay true..it just creeps down to like a bubble a minute or so...no leaks......just wont stay true...amazing how someone sells this and knows that there are these problems...just put the swagelok valve on from what im reading..and thats what i plan on doing...whats more amazing is how i didnt read all this stuff until after i had ordered....shame on me


----------



## Ben.

steeltowninwv said:


> well its been set up for 2 days now.....it wont stay true..it just creeps down to like a bubble a minute or so...no leaks......just wont stay true...amazing how someone sells this and knows that there are these problems...just put the swagelok valve on from what im reading..and thats what i plan on doing...whats more amazing is how i didnt read all this stuff until after i had ordered....shame on me


I think you may have had some installation issues, you said before that the compression ring was bent and that it wont hold steady, I haven't had any of these problems. The compression ring slid right onto the tubing and then I wrenched it down and it stayed straight. The needle valve held bps perfectly. 

Considering how much this setup cost in the first place you shouldn't be raging on a thread where jagged is teaching everyone how to DIY their own setup. Even the cheapest paintball setup would run you at least 120 w/ diffuser, check valve, tank.

Go to a local homedeopt or lowes and buy a new needle valve, and if it still doesn't work return it, and order a swagelok from ebay for 10-14 dollars.


----------



## ADA

steeltowninwv said:


> well its been set up for 2 days now.....it wont stay true..it just creeps down to like a bubble a minute or so...no leaks......just wont stay true...amazing how someone sells this and knows that there are these problems...just put the swagelok valve on from what im reading..and thats what i plan on doing...whats more amazing is how i didnt read all this stuff until after i had ordered....shame on me


That's pretty lame.. every product has it's small percentage of lemons, and most of them are from user incompetence, which is what I suspect in your case.
Did you consider all of the ones he's sold that work perfectly?
He's making these available to people for a ridiculously cheap price, and if you're too cheap to buy one or just can't afford it, he'd even willingly help you put one together yourself.
Mine's been solid at half a bubble per second since the day I bought it, as are the majority of other's that bought them.

fyi, the needle valve that comes with Jagged's setups is exactly as accurate as the Swagelok. I only bought the Swagelok because I like how it looks, and for the reputation they have. I'm replacing the other so they match.


----------



## kevmo911

Look, there's plenty of posts in this thread about possible issues, and it's been quite a number of pages since any new issue has popped up. It's a really inexpensive way to experience pressurized CO2 (1/3 to 1/4 the cost of a "cheap" regular pressurized CO2 setup). Some of the common issues, off the top of my head:

- A paintball tank is small, and has to be refilled often
- Since there's no regulator, the full 800psi is applied to the line, which only some needle valves, few compression fittings, and almost none of the commonly-used solenoids in our hobby are rated to handle
- The O-rings need to regularly be replaced (like the nylon washers in a traditional pressurized rig)
- Like any pressurized rig, leaks are common and should be checked for and corrected regularly
- The suggested "needle valve" isn't at all designed for the micro-control that we expect these valves to accomplish, even without the 3-5 times overpressure we subject them to via this setup
- It's not "idiot-proof". You need to think about it every step of the way, like anything else you build yourself. If it were really that easy, nobody would make a profit trying to sell a pre-built unit.

Again, this is a very inexpensive introduction to pressurized CO2. However, expecting it to be perfect, or even nearly perfect, is freaking stupid. I don't think it's a bad idea; in fact, it's a cheap way to make mistakes and learn from them, and afterwards, you'll have a gorgeous tank, and be encouraged! But do a lot of research first, and temper your expectations accordingly.

P.S. If you haven't read through this entire thread (you don't even have to search for it!!!), you shouldn't be allowed to post your problems with this setup. READ IT BEFORE TRYING.


----------



## genomer

kevmo911 said:


> Look, there's plenty of posts in this thread about possible issues, and it's been quite a number of pages since any new issue has popped up. It's a really inexpensive way to experience pressurized CO2 (1/3 to 1/4 the cost of a "cheap" regular pressurized CO2 setup). Some of the common issues, off the top of my head:
> 
> - A paintball tank is small, and has to be refilled often
> - Since there's no regulator, the full 800psi is applied to the line, which only some needle valves, few compression fittings, and almost none of the commonly-used solenoids in our hobby are rated to handle
> - The O-rings need to regularly be replaced (like the nylon washers in a traditional pressurized rig)
> - Like any pressurized rig, leaks are common and should be checked for and corrected regularly
> - The suggested "needle valve" isn't at all designed for the micro-control that we expect these valves to accomplish, even without the 3-5 times overpressure we subject them to via this setup
> - It's not "idiot-proof". You need to think about it every step of the way, like anything else you build yourself. If it were really that easy, nobody would make a profit trying to sell a pre-built unit.
> 
> Again, this is a very inexpensive introduction to pressurized CO2. However, expecting it to be perfect, or even nearly perfect, is freaking stupid. I don't think it's a bad idea; in fact, it's a cheap way to make mistakes and learn from them, and afterwards, you'll have a gorgeous tank, and be encouraged! But do a lot of research first, and temper your expectations accordingly.
> 
> P.S. If you haven't read through this entire thread (you don't even have to search for it!!!), you shouldn't be allowed to post your problems with this setup. READ IT BEFORE TRYING.


+1

I love my paintball system.


----------



## steeltowninwv

bought new compressin ring..no leaks at all...i have read here 100 times that the watts needle valve doesnt stay true...and thats my case....


----------



## Jaggedfury

sayurasem said:


> ok so is the tube SVEB10 OR SVGE10??? on your first post you said sveb10 and i checked on home depot its just a "clear vinyl tubiing" nothing mention about co2 tubing.


Sorry, I haven't been on lately.

The Co2 Tubing iss SVEB10, 10 stands sfor 10 feet. You can also purchase SVEB20, which is 20 feet. It's still the same size diameter tubing.

It'll work for Co2 as well. Believed me. Look lower at the "Box" container that it [censored][censored][censored][censored]s on, it says it's used for GAS, CHEMICAL and LIQUIDS. 

Months ago, when I was out looking for Co2 rated hoses, the head employee of the Plumbling department confirmed that this tubing will work with pressurized Co2. 

I've been using the same hose for nearly 1 year now, will continue to use it another year and many years to come. No problem with hardening, knicks, or whatever. 

Again the Co2 tubing at Homedepot is SEVB10 for 10 feet or SEVB20 for 20 feet. 

SVGE10 might of been a Lowes part number.


----------



## Jaggedfury

steeltowninwv said:


> bought new compressin ring..no leaks at all...i have read here 100 times that the watts needle valve doesnt stay true...and thats my case....


I'm not sure where you got your Needle Valve, but it has been stated numerous times that the Watts Needle Valve has been working for some and not for others. This could of been due to the part number being difference in it's "LF" Lead Free shipment to each states.

In the beginning when this setup was introduced, it was a test run and I was using the Watts Needle Valve from Homedepot that has a part number with "LF" on it meaning it's Lead Free. 

I can't confirmed if this "LF" or non "LF" cause it to not flow right. Of course folks tried it out and some worked and some didn't. Mines worked for awhile until I just sold my own setup and decided to experiment with different Needle Valves. Thats where Swagelok Needle Valve came into play along with sourcing out a Needle Valve that I can get locally from a Mom/Pop Plumbling Store that isn't the same Needle Valve as the Watts being sold at Homedepot. It may resemble it exactly, but I can guaranteed you it's not the Watts Needle Valve that I supply in my setup.

If I remembered, correctly, you might have purchase one of my setup recently. Majority of the leaks are due to installation errors. I do however, understand that some folks never even touched a wrench before or know what Teflon Tape is. I believed, I replied to your messages with the correct information to solve your problem of the Compression Ring. 

All I'm saying is, I'm here to help you when you need help but I can't help you with the physical part of wrenching it down to the right point or not.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Here is a link from g33tar (asked for permission, ok'ed to referenced) using the Option #3 with the atomic diffusers/super diffusers whatever you want to call it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KYQDDBjX5s

Someone asked me, if it will work with the atomic diffusers. 

Hope that helps.


----------



## steeltowninwv

yes i did buy from u and im pretty mechanical...i may have it going time will tell..i brought in the kitchen dunked it in a 5 gallon bucket...still no leaks....so i said well im gonna set it to like 2 or 3 bubbles per second and let it back down on its own like it has been doing...i put it back in the aquarium..more bubbles than ever as expected...has been there for most of the day...now there is less bubbles....about like it is when i have it set to one bubble per second...time will tell...things will be alot simpler soon i ordered a bubble counter..


----------



## sayurasem

Jaggedfury said:


> I'm not sure where you got your Needle Valve, but it has been stated numerous times that the Watts Needle Valve has been working for some and not for others. This could of been due to the part number being difference in it's "LF" Lead Free shipment to each states.
> 
> In the beginning when this setup was introduced, it was a test run and I was using the Watts Needle Valve from Homedepot that has a part number with "LF" on it meaning it's Lead Free.
> 
> I can't confirmed if this "LF" or non "LF" cause it to not flow right. Of course folks tried it out and some worked and some didn't. Mines worked for awhile until I just sold my own setup and decided to experiment with different Needle Valves. Thats where Swagelok Needle Valve came into play along with sourcing out a Needle Valve that I can get locally from a Mom/Pop Plumbling Store that isn't the same Needle Valve as the Watts being sold at Homedepot. It may resemble it exactly, but I can guaranteed you it's not the Watts Needle Valve that I supply in my setup.
> 
> If I remembered, correctly, you might have purchase one of my setup recently. Majority of the leaks are due to installation errors. I do however, understand that some folks never even touched a wrench before or know what Teflon Tape is. I believed, I replied to your messages with the correct information to solve your problem of the Compression Ring.
> 
> All I'm saying is, I'm here to help you when you need help but I can't help you with the physical part of wrenching it down to the right point or not.


so whats the difference between needle valve and the swagelok ones? the extra plastic handle on the needle? or just better flow?


----------



## Jaggedfury

Swagelok Needle Valve are known for their brand name. They make millions of parts for various operations dealing with "flow''. It's also better made, better feel as well since it has a sturdy bigger handle that is easy on the hand. 

I am using both, the Swagelok and the Needle Valve I provide in Option #3. As far as functionally, works the same. The two setup have been running for well over 3 months now, on 24/7.

With the Swagelok Needle Valve, it does cost a few dollars more and you will need to piece together the end piece for th co2 to fit. 

The Swagelok Needle Valve is 1/8'' NPT by 1/8'' NPT. Keep that in mind. Do your research on end fittings as well.


----------



## sayurasem

yeah im thinking about the swagelok valve.

my needle valve cant handle the pressure from the 20oz tank.

-btw, am I suppose to open the asa on/off valve all the way? then needle valve a little bit?

OR open needle valve all the way, and asa on/off little bit?

need help on my setup... i have leak on my asa valve... dammit.


----------



## Jaggedfury

sayurasem said:


> yeah im thinking about the swagelok valve.
> 
> my needle valve cant handle the pressure from the 20oz tank.
> 
> -btw, am I suppose to open the asa on/off valve all the way? then needle valve a little bit?
> 
> OR open needle valve all the way, and asa on/off little bit?
> 
> need help on my setup... i have leak on my asa valve... dammit.


There isn't a correct way in opening the flow of the setup.

But, I've always been opening the Top Knob of any ASA On/off Valve first before I open the Needle Valve. This is to ensure that the co2 pressure is sent out first but closed off within the ASA On/Off chamber. From there on out, the need to open the Needle Valve will let the flow come outward into your aquarium via whatever method of diffusion.

The ASA On/Off Valve is a fairly simple device. It has at most 3 openings. 

1. Top Knob opening - Depress Pin.
2. One or Two 1/8'' NPT Side threads for Gauges and Needle Valve
3. Lower Pin Valve Coupler thread Opening (Screws onto the Paintball Co2 Tank)

This is somewhat the common rule for majority of the ASA On/Off Valve out there.

If you have a leak on number 1 from above, the small o rings that sits around the Depress Pin is worn out/damage. Replace and it will fix the leak.

If you have a leak on number 2 from above, not enough Teflon Tape was used and it's not wrench down tight enough. Redo Teflon Tape and wrench it down more

If you have a leak on number 3 from above, the Pin Valve on the Paintball Co2 Tank itself has a O ring that sits after the threaded portion of the Pin Valve. That is more likely to be worn out/damage. In some cases, the Pin Valve itself is bad and it would require to replace it. *If replacing, take it into the store and have them empty the tank professionally before unscrewing the Pin Valve out. If you feel like your great enough to do it, go for it. Any present of Co2 gas still inside the Paintball Co2 tank can be deadly if not empty.* 
Following those above guidelines to your problem will hopefully fix your ASA On/Off Valve leaks. Same goes to the Fixed ASA On/Off Valve, minus that it doesn't use a Depress Pin.


----------



## sayurasem

thats what im having problem on!

number1! yeah i checked, theres 2 little black "O" rings on the depress pin, 1 of them is broken.
-where to replace?

and yes, it was scary as sh*t when I unscrew the asa from the co2 tank.
-that is why I notice there is a little tiny hole near the bottom of asa valve for trapped gas to escape.

and btw, I'm having problem with attaching the hose to the lf-41 needle vavle. The hose would pop out when I open the asa valve because too much pressure.


man this project is some scary sh*t


----------



## Jaggedfury

sayurasem said:


> thats what im having problem on!
> 
> number1! yeah i checked, theres 2 little black "O" rings on the depress pin, 1 of them is broken.
> -where to replace?
> 
> and yes, it was scary as sh*t when I unscrew the asa from the co2 tank.
> -that is why I notice there is a little tiny hole near the bottom of asa valve for trapped gas to escape.
> 
> and btw, I'm having problem with attaching the hose to the lf-41 needle vavle. The hose would pop out when I open the asa valve because too much pressure.
> 
> 
> man this project is some scary sh*t


 
The O rings are easily replacecable. It's like .58 cents per 3-6 O rings. Part number at Lowes is BrassCraft # 0533. The size is 1/4"ID x 3/8"OD x 1/16" Wall Thickness. I recommend replacing both at the same time. Homedepot probably has the same product and such as well. Use a pick and pick the old O rings out and take it to Homedepot and ask someone in the Plumbling department about it. 

If I remembered correctly, the Watts A-41 LF uses a Compression Ring as well. Very simple to install the Co2 tubing onto it considering your using the correct size Co2 tubing. It follows the same instructions as listed on the first page of this thread. First page, first two photos.


----------



## sayurasem

llamabob said:


> Got mine up and running. Triple wrapping the teflon tape worked great! No leaks as of now.


ok so how do you connect your needle valve to the hose?

mine hose pop out everytime i turn my system on.


----------



## sayurasem

ok thx jaggedfury! yeah I notice theres an o ring around the needle point and look the same. thx for the info. right now im just trying to fit my hose into the needle valve. yes I know im using the correct hose (sveb10 homedepot).
-just trying to fit the hose to that pointy brass on the lf-41. its like the hose is too thick.


----------



## Jaggedfury

sayurasem said:


> ok thx jaggedfury! yeah I notice theres an o ring around the needle point and look the same. thx for the info. right now im just trying to fit my hose into the needle valve. yes I know im using the correct hose (sveb10 homedepot).
> -just trying to fit the hose to that pointy brass on the lf-41. its like the hose is too thick.


If you can, shoot me a photo and I'll explain how it's installed. Shouldn't be that difficult. I find it very easy to fit. A photo or two will help further explain your problem of fitment.


----------



## sayurasem

Got it!!!!

well finally after stuff popping and exploding I got this system running. I somewhat followed the pictures on the earlier posts (page 4).

-changed my o rings from lowes 57 cents for 2 pieces and tada asa valve not leaking anymore.

now just a little problem... I think my needle valve cant hold the pressure from the co2 tank. Its so hard to open the needle valve when all the pressure against the needle. But o well bought the valve for 9 bucks... might as well use it.

pic coming soon.


----------



## sayurasem

happi said:


> here is how mine looks like, hooking up the co2 tube was pain in the A**


 we have the same needle valve! its all dented and beat up by the wrench lol.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Great. All this time I thought you were using a Compression Ring. Instead your using a nipple to tubing connector. 

For that case, it's pretty simple as well.

Slide Nut through Co2 tubing first, then position the "Nipple" onto the Co2 tubing afterwards. I would lay the Nipple on a flat surface and push down on the Co2 tubing forcing it to slide downward onto the Nipple until it hits the curve end. Do not go over the curve end of the Nipple. 

Once that is done, just position the curve end of the Nipple onto the Threaded portion of the Needle Valve that's Teflon Taped and just slide the Nut onto the Thread and tighten it down with a wrench. 

I really don't see any difficulty in that installation. It might of been a little tight to try and get the Co2 tubing onto the Nipple all the way to the Curve portion. But if you had it on a flat surface and push down on it, it would of been really easy.


----------



## ElectricBlue

Im sure its in here somewhere, but this thread is way to long to find the info im looking for. 


About how long are these 20oz canisters lasting on a 10g? And also about how long are they lasting on a 20L? both with low tech set ups, about 10-15BPS


----------



## sayurasem

Total Cost:

1). EMPTY 20oz Tank $27.15 (+tax) -Walmart
2). FILLING Co2 Tank $3.50 -Sport Chalet
3). ASA on/off valve $8.70 (include tax + shipping) -eBay
4). Watts Needle valve $10.55 (+tax) -HomeDepot
5). Teflon Tape $1.07 (+tax) -HomeDepot
6). 10 Feet Tubing $2.33 (+tax) -HomeDepot

Total $53.30

dang.... its pretty expensive for a guy that only grow java moss and java fern on my 10gal tank lol.

-plus $2 Wrench and $6 glass diffuser. ~60 bucks


----------



## Jaggedfury

ElectricBlue said:


> Im sure its in here somewhere, but this thread is way to long to find the info im looking for.
> 
> 
> About how long are these 20oz canisters lasting on a 10g? And also about how long are they lasting on a 20L? both with low tech set ups, about 10-15BPS


The size of your aquarium doesn't determined the outcome of how long a Paintball Co2 Tank will last. You can have a 10 gallon tank with very high demanding co2 plants, then again you can have just regular java moss and java fern only. 

It all depends on your bps and what your injecting in that your plants needs.

Here's what I came up with several months back regarding a 24 oz PB tank. The 1bps on a 24 oz PB tank is confirmed by several folks to have reach 5.2 to 5.3 months. I myself reached between that range.

The 2 bps on a 24 oz Pb tank is right on the ball park as well.

*At 1bps on a 24 oz PB tank. You can get 5-6 months.
At 2bps on a 24 oz PB tank. You can get 4-5 months.
At 3bps on a 24 oz PB tank. You can get 2-3 months.
At 4-5 bps on a 24 oz PB tank, You can get 1.5-2 months
At 6-8 bps on a 24 oz PB tank, You're looking at 1 month before refill. *

10 to 15 bps is alot of co2 injection into a 10 gallons tank or 20 gallons long tank. 

I would think that would gas your fish and shrimps if you have any.


----------



## Jaggedfury

sayurasem said:


> Total Cost:
> 
> 1). EMPTY 20oz Tank $27.15 (+tax) -Walmart
> 2). FILLING Co2 Tank $3.50 -Sport Chalet
> 3). ASA on/off valve $8.70 (include tax + shipping) -eBay
> 4). Watts Needle valve $10.55 (+tax) -HomeDepot
> 5). Teflon Tape $1.07 (+tax) -HomeDepot
> 6). 10 Feet Tubing $2.33 (+tax) -HomeDepot
> 
> Total $53.30
> 
> dang.... its pretty expensive for a guy that only grow java moss and java fern on my 10gal tank lol.
> 
> -plus $2 Wrench and $6 glass diffuser. ~60 bucks


The setup can be had for free. Co2 setup = accelerated plant growth = sell on forum here on site = payment back for setup and more. 

In due time it pays off from your plant sale :biggrin:


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## HolyAngel

ElectricBlue said:


> Im sure its in here somewhere, but this thread is way to long to find the info im looking for.
> 
> 
> About how long are these 20oz canisters lasting on a 10g? And also about how long are they lasting on a 20L? both with low tech set ups, about 10-15BPS


HOLY CRAP! what kinda diffuser do you have in there!? I can't even hit 2 bps in my 29g Without gassing my fish with an inline atomizer and an air stone 24/7..


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## ElectricBlue

Ahh see, I havent ran a Co2 system on a smaller set up. 

Im not sure what my BPS are on my larger aquarium, but i do know the count is high.


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## rj55021

Jaggedfury said:


> The size of your aquarium doesn't determined the outcome of how long a Paintball Co2 Tank will last. You can have a 10 gallon tank with very high demanding co2 plants, then again you can have just regular java moss and java fern only.
> 
> It all depends on your bps and what your injecting in that your plants needs.
> 
> Here's what I came up with several months back regarding a 24 oz PB tank. The 1bps on a 24 oz PB tank is confirmed by several folks to have reach 5.2 to 5.3 months. I myself reached between that range.
> 
> The 2 bps on a 24 oz Pb tank is right on the ball park as well.
> 
> *At 1bps on a 24 oz PB tank. You can get 5-6 months.
> At 2bps on a 24 oz PB tank. You can get 4-5 months.
> At 3bps on a 24 oz PB tank. You can get 2-3 months.
> At 4-5 bps on a 24 oz PB tank, You can get 1.5-2 months
> At 6-8 bps on a 24 oz PB tank, You're looking at 1 month before refill. *
> 
> 10 to 15 bps is alot of co2 injection into a 10 gallons tank or 20 gallons long tank.
> 
> I would think that would gas your fish and shrimps if you have any.


My setup last for 1.5 month. I was surprised as I didn't see a lick when I assembled the system.

I will re-fill it soon and triple-check for bobbles this time.

But the system is perfect and worth it.

Thanks Jagg


----------



## speedoflife

What kind of pressures does everyone with this setup see at room temperature at the gauge on the ASA? Does anyone see pressures above 1000 PSI?


----------



## Piloswine

Hi quick question,
I got the system all set up and it works great for around 30 minutes. After that, the co2 just stops flowing. I have to take the Asa off the tank and re attach it for the gas to flow again, but it just stops after another 30 minutes. I have a swagelok valve and Teflon tape around everything, and there aren't any leaks. Is the Asa faulty? Someone said the co2 might be coming out too fast and solidifying. Does that sound feasible for this setup? Thanks for all your help!


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## Jaggedfury

When you mention there aren't any leaks, are you 500% sure of that? The most common problem that occurs with setup is a leak present somewhere that slowly creeps itself up. It doesn't need to be a massive leak. People have dump the setup in bucket of water for 10 seconds and say there is no leaks, but later to find out there is leaks. 

I'm using the Swagelok Needle Valve set at 1.5 bps and never had a problem with co2 gas coming out too fast. 

I wouldn't say the ASA On/Off Valve is faulty, I would triple check for sure sign of leakage first. A single bubble leakage can take up to as long as 1 minute to form, keep the setup under water and observe it one last time to be certain there isn't a leak. 

I then would test it with another ASA On/Off Valve to rule out the first ASA On/Off Valve you have on there.


----------



## speedoflife

speedoflife said:


> What kind of pressures does everyone with this setup see at room temperature at the gauge on the ASA? Does anyone see pressures above 1000 PSI?


Because I'm seeing pressures way over 1000 PSI on my gauge at the ASA and it worries me.


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## Piloswine

Thanks for replying Jaggedfury. You're right, I only held it under water for a couple of seconds. So if there is a leak, instead of all the co2 leaking out, the flow just stops after a while?


----------



## spyke

ok...so is the on/off valve necessary or can strictly the needle valve be the way you adjust the bps?
i had most of the stuff for this since i used to play paintball...but my asa on-of valve...well isn't. it has no knob, it is always on i guess you could say.

does that cause a problem like blow outs or a huge loss of c02 when you plug it in? help me out here. since i am new to this.


----------



## ADA

spyke said:


> ok...so is the on/off valve necessary or can strictly the needle valve be the way you adjust the bps?
> i had most of the stuff for this since i used to play paintball...but my asa on-of valve...well isn't. it has no knob, it is always on i guess you could say.
> 
> does that cause a problem like blow outs or a huge loss of c02 when you plug it in? help me out here. since i am new to this.


You need an ASA obviously (that's what the needle valve screws into).. I have one that's always on, has no on/off that works perfectly. I guess a good thing about having an on/off would be you could turn it on and off without resetting the needle valve. Then again you could just unscrew the ASA, but probably would lose a lot of Co2 if you're constantly doing that.


----------



## HolyAngel

speedoflife said:


> Because I'm seeing pressures way over 1000 PSI on my gauge at the ASA and it worries me.



All mine stay at 800 or less.. I'd say whoever filled it went way over.. But it's hard to know for sure without looking at the bottle.


----------



## Ben.

HolyAngel said:


> All mine stay at 800 or less.. I'd say whoever filled it went way over.. But it's hard to know for sure without looking at the bottle.


Pressure is based on the temperature on the CO2 the hotter it is the more pressure there is. My tank is at 1000 PSI and is constantly at ~86 degrees. If you stick it in the fridge and reattach it, the pressure will be less than room temperature pressure.


----------



## rj55021

rj55021 said:


> My setup last for 1.5 month. I was surprised as I didn't see a lick when I assembled the system.
> 
> I will re-fill it soon and triple-check for bobbles this time.
> 
> But the system is perfect and worth it.
> 
> Thanks Jagg



Well! 

This Saturday I when to refill the tank and guess what! the tank is still there 

When the co2 was disconnected after refilled, the pin of the tank was damaged. So, I can guess that other than an assembly issue, the linking of CO2 could be caused by a defect tank. Something to keep on mind. 

It is weird as It wasn't liking when I put the tank by the fist time inside the bucket of water.

Let's see how that goes.


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## speedoflife

Ben. said:


> Pressure is based on the temperature on the CO2 the hotter it is the more pressure there is. My tank is at 1000 PSI and is constantly at ~86 degrees. If you stick it in the fridge and reattach it, the pressure will be less than room temperature pressure.





HolyAngel said:


> All mine stay at 800 or less.. I'd say whoever filled it went way over.. But it's hard to know for sure without looking at the bottle.


Thanks! Ok that makes sense. I am just afraid to leave the ASA open with that kind of pressure on the gauge and needle valve. Or am I too anxious about what they can handle?

The tank is just a normal paintball tank. I don't know if they overfilled. I got it filled at Academy and the guy didn't seem like the brightest bulb on the tree.


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## h2oaggie

If it is way overfilled the burst disk will blow. Any pressure below that is fine, I wouldn't worry about it.


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## ADA

mine are always around 1000 when first filled.




HolyAngel said:


> All mine stay at 800 or less.. I'd say whoever filled it went way over.. But it's hard to know for sure without looking at the bottle.


----------



## spyke

hows this?...i know i don't have an on/off...but it should do...right?


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## Ben.

spyke said:


> hows this?...i know i don't have an on/off...but it should do...right?


Does it work and does it leak? If it works and doesn't leak, you can answer your question


----------



## spyke

uh...sad story, today is my day off...but paintball store is closed...so no filling until tomorrow, where i will take it to work and test it out....ahh, the joy of working at a pet shop.

guess you're right...just seeing how many others have an"always on" asa...i know a few, but just want more feedback i guess. perhaps in time.


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## Jaggedfury

With the setup, any ASA on/off valve will work as long as it has a 1/8'' NPT port for a Needle Valve to screw into. The ASA on/off valve needs to also be able to screw onto Paintbal Co2 Tanks sizes from 4 ounces to 24 ounces. I don't believed anyone is using the old age 40 ounces that are still around but mostly outdated. It doesn't need to have a Top Knob for adjustment.



rj55021 said:


> Well!
> This Saturday I when to refill the tank and guess what! the tank is still there
> When the co2 was disconnected after refilled, the pin of the tank was damaged. So, I can guess that other than an assembly issue, the linking of CO2 could be caused by a defect tank. Something to keep on mind.
> It is weird as It wasn't liking when I put the tank by the fist time inside the bucket of water.
> Let's see how that goes.


The Pin Valve being damage will cause a leak. Believe it or not, they go out fairly often as well. Can't stress enough to purchase New Paintball Co2 Tanks, which will come with New Pin Valve installed.


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## rj55021

Jaggedfury said:


> With the setup, any ASA on/off valve will work as long as it has a 1/8'' NPT port for a Needle Valve to screw into. The ASA on/off valve needs to also be able to screw onto Paintbal Co2 Tanks sizes from 4 ounces to 24 ounces. I don't believed anyone is using the old age 40 ounces that are still around but mostly outdated. It doesn't need to have a Top Knob for adjustment.
> 
> 
> The Pin Valve being damage will cause a leak. Believe it or not, they go out fairly often as well. Can't stress enough to purchase New Paintball Co2 Tanks, which will come with New Pin Valve installed.


The tank is now on the Shop for repair, I will give a second try to make sure I can keep it.


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## spyke

ok...good news and ehh news..and bad news...

good news...it works!!!!!!!!!!! yay, hooked it up in a tank at work and it is functioning properly, have it at about 2bps in a 55 right now, so i'll tune it down when i get home for my 40b.

ehh news...my old co2 tank was too old so i had to buy a neww one, but it was only 26 bucks filled....cheaper than walmart.

bad news...it leaks about 1.5 pbs right out of the burst valve thingy....i think i'm just going to let it go till it runs out. don't feel like driving 30 minutes north just to have them fix it. it can wait till i need to fill it again.


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## Jaggedfury

rj55021 said:


> The tank is now on the Shop for repair, I will give a second try to make sure I can keep it.


It's just safer to get new paintball co2 tanks. Keep in mind, when purchasing new paintball co2 tanks, the hydro date is good for 5 years. Along with that, the Pin Valve, Pin Valve O ring and Burst Disc is new as well. With those in mind, paying $30 dollars or less for a 24 ounce Paintball Co2 Tank is well worth it. Just my opinion though.




spyke said:


> ok...good news and ehh news..and bad news...
> 
> good news...it works!!!!!!!!!!! yay, hooked it up in a tank at work and it is functioning properly, have it at about 2bps in a 55 right now, so i'll tune it down when i get home for my 40b.
> 
> ehh news...my old co2 tank was too old so i had to buy a neww one, but it was only 26 bucks filled....cheaper than walmart.
> 
> bad news...it leaks about 1.5 pbs right out of the burst valve thingy....i think i'm just going to let it go till it runs out. don't feel like driving 30 minutes north just to have them fix it. it can wait till i need to fill it again.


If it's a fresh refill and the Burst Disk is leaking, that is bad thing. Burst Disk are installed to vent out over-fills thus preventing the cylinder tank to blow up. In the case of way too much over-filling, the Burst Disk will dislodge itself which will vent out the entire pressure inside the tank.

In no way should you alter the Burst Disk in any way with the tank pressurized. Let it vent out or shut the whole system down and bring it into a re-filling station and have it checked out. Be cautious of the weather while driving with pressurized paintball co2 tanks. I only say this because weather have reach over 104+ degrees here and there.


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## Aquariumboy123

good instructions very useful


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## DogFish

Gentlemen is this what we are building? 

[Ebay Link Removed]

I'm new to the whole concept of CO2. So pardon my ignorance. Could I not just buy this, get a 20oz paintball tank, then what a defuser? Whould that be base essentals?

I'm setting up a low light, Crypt tank (4ogl) I intend to keep the fish pop. low & maybe some shrip.

Thank you

Sorry didn't realize we can't post an ebay link. I found two regulators there for around $20. However they are from Taipei, Taiwan, which tends to mean knock-off.


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## Jaggedfury

The basic setup is to have a Paintball ASA On/Off Valve that will screw onto Paintball Co2 Tanks. If it's not able to screw onto the Pin Valve of the Paintball Co2 Tanks, it will not work. Items from out of seas are difficult to determine without pictures. If you like, you can link it to me through Private Message and I'll confirm it for you whether it will work or not.


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## DogFish

Jaggedfury said:


> If you like, you can link it to me through Private Message and I'll confirm it for you whether it will work or not.


Some additonal reseach showed that some of those Chinesse valves are not direct fit ie. metric vs. standard threads. 

Thank you for the PM advice offer, I'm sure in the future I may need it. I looked at some Paintball sites for pricing. I think once you figue in Ebay shipping I might just as well buy from a store front bus. Concidering it's a compressed gas system. I fell safer with new. Fourtunately I'm in the Chicago market (20mi away from Elk Grove). 

I got the basics from you DIY, gauged valve with pressure blow out, drop it down with a pin valve. Run line to defuser w/ a bubble counter...Right?

Thanks for the DIY great job. I learned more about CO2 than I did reading several site.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Yepp that's pretty much it. Simple basic setup.


----------



## Master Se7eN

Or just buy a full set up from you...


----------



## jeremyblevins

Okay I think I might have found the culprit in my setup. I noticed when I was randomly leak checking my setup that a small bubble formed inside the hole on the threaded part of the Asa. So I'm thinking it might be a faulty o-ring. My system always runs for less than a day then mysteriously stops. My questions are how big of a leak does it have to be to cause this, and why does a leak cause the flow to stop?


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## Jaggedfury

Replace O rings on the Depress Pin within the ASA On/Off Valve. If the Depress Pin falls out by itself, the O rings need to be replace. If it leaks on the Pin Valve of the Paintball Co2 Tank, replace that O ring instead. Any form of leak will cause the flow to stop.


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## jt-79

Hi All, I got my system setup a week ago everything work perfectly no leakage i got it down to 1.5 bps with no issue. However in the couple morning the bubble rate is lower like 1 bp/2s this morning it even worst it's like 1 bp/4s. Of course my ph swing from 6.7 to 7.3. Did anyone have this issue? I checked my pressure it's stable at ~900 psi it never changed since it was turned on a week ago.

Gear: 20 oz tank, CP ASA on/off, Swagelok Needle Valve


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## Kayen

Hey i was wondering where i could get my hands on a swagelok needle valve? That will ship to Canada... the needle valve that i got on Jagged's unit isn't staying steady.. I find that if i set it to 1bps, the valve will slowly tighten up on its own and about an hour later it will be stopped completely since I switched to a glass diffusor. 

Prior to that i still had the same issue when i was injecting via powerhead, but it was a matter of days not hours, but in a 2.5g using a powerhead takes up too much room.


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## jt-79

Hmm.. I using a glass diffusor too. I'll try clean the diffusor up tonight and see if that help. As for the Swagelok Needle Valve just go on ebay and search for "Swagelok Needle Valve" this one i'm using cost only $9.99 and the buyer do ship thought out N. America.


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## gil_ong

subscribed. good thing i haven't thrown out all my paintball stuff.


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## Kayen

jt-79 said:


> Hmm.. I using a glass diffusor too. I'll try clean the diffusor up tonight and see if that help. As for the Swagelok Needle Valve just go on ebay and search for "Swagelok Needle Valve" this one i'm using cost only $9.99 and the buyer do ship thought out N. America.


Yeah, it's weird, i'm using a brand new clean glass diffusor too....
Which is the one i'm looking for? I don't see any for $9.99, could you PM me a link if possible?


----------



## h2oaggie

> Hey i was wondering where i could get my hands on a swagelok needle valve? That will ship to Canada... the needle valve that i got on Jagged's unit isn't staying steady.. I find that if i set it to 1bps, the valve will slowly tighten up on its own and about an hour later it will be stopped completely since I switched to a glass diffusor.


I have an extra if you would like. I upgraded to a full fledged pressurized system and have no need for it anymore. Stainless steel as well.


----------



## dreamt_01

it's kinda hard to find these valves locally though.. ebay or maybe just buy from jaggedfury right from the start..


----------



## Jaggedfury

The Swagelok Needle Valve is on E BAY. The part number is *B-OVM2-BKB*. The size of the Needle Valve is 1/8'' by 1/8''. You will need to piece together a few other output fittings to couple onto the 1/8'' output to make it work. It does not come with any output tube connections.

Please keep in mind, it has been reported that the Swagelok Needle Valve B-OVM2-BKB have had problems before also. Not all Needle Valve will work fine. I myself have a Swagelok Needle Valve B-OVM2-BKB on my setup thats been running for nearly 5 months now. Works fine to me as with the Needle Valve in the setups as well. A better appearance and better handle is what I've noticed between the two. 

So if you want to go with the Swagelok Needle Valve, the one you want would be the B-OVM2-BKB. Hope that clears alot of confusions. By all mean, you're welcome to use the more expensive Swagelok Needle Valve that is not B-OVM2-BKB as well.


----------



## jt-79

jt-79 said:


> Hmm.. I using a glass diffusor too. I'll try clean the diffusor up tonight and see if that help. As for the Swagelok Needle Valve just go on ebay and search for "Swagelok Needle Valve" this one i'm using cost only $9.99 and the buyer do ship thought out N. America.


Just an update cleaned the diffuser didn't work. Double check for leakage none. Now I moved the check valve (original placed 2.5 feet from the Co2 tank) close to about ~1" from the Co2 tank exit point. Hope this will fix the issue. If not this weekend i'm going to take out the glass diffuser off the tank and into a 5 gallon water bucket and turn up the valve 1/4 way. I let it run over 24hrs if the valve is slowly tightening back up I should able to tell from the position of the valve handle.


----------



## Capncrunch7

I must be doing something wrong. I have the setup assembled correctly with the CO2 running from a Jagged-paintball device to a glass diffuser. The tank is reading about 1,000 PSI, however. Also, when I attempt to open the needle valve even the very slightest bit (say, to go from 1bps to 1.5bps) the valve will fly open, increase to about 10bps and blast off all of the tubing. Halp!


----------



## jt-79

I assume your say valve fly open as in the actual valve knob is free spinning by itself. If so I think on the save side you should try another needle valve. Sound like your needle valve might be damage. It might be either there a piece of debris inside near the pin and dragging the pin to rotate as you release the pressure or the thread of the pin is off and not holding to the valve body.


----------



## jt-79

jt-79 said:


> Just an update cleaned the diffuser didn't work. Double check for leakage none. Now I moved the check valve (original placed 2.5 feet from the Co2 tank) close to about ~1" from the Co2 tank exit point. Hope this will fix the issue. If not this weekend i'm going to take out the glass diffuser off the tank and into a 5 gallon water bucket and turn up the valve 1/4 way. I let it run over 24hrs if the valve is slowly tightening back up I should able to tell from the position of the valve handle.


24 hrs update the bubble slow down issue is less then before after i moved the check valve close to the tank, however after 24 hrs it bubble rate slowed from 1.5 bps to 1 bp 2 second (before it slow down to 1 bp per 4+ second). To be sure sure sure sure I didn't create a leak during the check valve move, I checked for leakage again for the 4th time and none, zero not 1 leakage just like before. Just to be clear I check the leakage by droping the entire setup under water for 15+ mins and wait to see if any bubble come up.









Tank + check valve under 5 gallon water








bubble counter place under water inside the tank








glass diffuser.


----------



## Capncrunch7

Ah, bad word choice by me. The needle valve offers a LOT of resistance (I generally need to use a tool to turn it) and it can't be adjusted in small increments. As soon as I overcome the friction to get it to move, it will spin about 45 degrees and blow off all the connections.

Is this normal or should I be finding a way to extend the needle valve handle so I can make more precise adjustments?


----------



## jt-79

When you say spin about 45 degrees you mean your hand is still on the handle right but the handle have no resistance so you cant slowly turn the handle. If it spin 45 degrees by itself then probably something is wrong with the valve. If there is just too little resistance and you cant control a slow turn then try using two hand. One slowing make the turn while other counter turn to offer extra resistance. Now if the handle continue to spin forward after your hand is off the handle that another question.


----------



## mad_sci

I can't seem to find one of those swagelok B-OVM2-BKB needle valves here in canada. Can any ship one or two up to Vancouver BC?


----------



## ADA

mad_sci said:


> I can't seem to find one of those swagelok B-OVM2-BKB needle valves here in canada. Can any ship one up to Vancouver BC?


I actually have a couple of swagelok and a Ham-Let metering valve if you're interested. Brand new. I decided to go low tech with the tank I bought for, so the parts are just sitting here. I have a high quality ASA too. PM me if you're interested.


----------



## jt-79

Another update confirming that my needle valve "Does" slowly automatic tighten back up over time (24-36 hrs). I'm still trying to find out why, but it could just be a bad batch of valve. Anyway the good thing is because i'm pumping only 1-1.5 bps co2 to the tank even when it valve is close it doesn't really change my ph level that much over that period of time (~ 6.5 to 6.7). Bad new is every 18-24 hrs or so i need to adjust the valve again.


----------



## Capncrunch7

Mine does that too, I had thought it was the nature of needle valves. Mine goes from 2bps to 1bps in about 24 hours, and from 2bps to 0.5bps in 48. My trick has been setting it to 2bps and then using a wrench to position the needle valve in a way that the handles are blocked from spinning any more by the neck of the CO2 tank.


----------



## jt-79

Capncrunch7 said:


> Mine does that too, I had thought it was the nature of needle valves. Mine goes from 2bps to 1bps in about 24 hours, and from 2bps to 0.5bps in 48. My trick has been setting it to 2bps and then using a wrench to position the needle valve in a way that the handles are blocked from spinning any more by the neck of the CO2 tank.


1+ good to hear I'm not the only one with this issue. That a good idea I think I'll rake up some type of blockage too thank.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Haven't been on lately, but here's what I suggest you take a look at.

Have you guys tried tightening down the Needle Valve "T" Handle Nut? It's the Nut that sits on the shalf of where the "T" Handle is at. 

Using a 6'' inch Crescent Wrench and tighten it a little to make sure it's not loose.


----------



## jt-79

Jaggedfury said:


> Haven't been on lately, but here's what I suggest you take a look at.
> 
> Have you guys tried tightening down the Needle Valve "T" Handle Nut? It's the Nut that sits on the shalf of where the "T" Handle is at.
> 
> Using a 6'' inch Crescent Wrench and tighten it a little to make sure it's not loose.


It was pretty tight already but i was able to tighten it up 1/4" more rotation this morning. Will check tonight when I get home if it help thx.


----------



## jt-79

jt-79 said:


> It was pretty tight already but i was able to tighten it up 1/4" more rotation this morning. Will check tonight when I get home if it help thx.


Nope it didn't work, hmm thank for all the help guys. I guess it is what it is, maybe I'll get another needle valve later.


----------



## Kayen

Another problem popped up on my set up... the gold part in the inside of the regulator fell out... i went on vacation for the weekend so i switched off my paintball CO2 by screwing off the top... --> the depression pin isn't staying in place.. orings look fine on it ...
I screw it back on and the gold piece is loose... CO2 has been nothing but problems for me...


----------



## Capncrunch7

jt-79 said:


> Nope it didn't work, hmm thank for all the help guys. I guess it is what it is, maybe I'll get another needle valve later.


Same here. I was able to get a very slight turn out of the T-handle nut, but in 24 hours the bps has gone from 2.5 to 1.5.

Oddly enough, that's with the whole apparatus positioned so that the T-handle is digging in to the neck of the tank, which I thought would keep it from being able to slowly close on its own.


----------



## nerdyjon

Kayen said:


> Another problem popped up on my set up... the gold part in the inside of the regulator fell out... i went on vacation for the weekend so i switched off my paintball CO2 by screwing off the top... --> the depression pin isn't staying in place.. orings look fine on it ...
> I screw it back on and the gold piece is loose... CO2 has been nothing but problems for me...


I have the same problem.


----------



## njs74

Read through most of this thread... awesome thread and great info! I got my DIY paintball setup using an ace needle valve and a guage/asa valve from ebay. No leaks and working as it should!... After several frustrating hours of going back and forth trying to fix issues with leaks and pressure loss.

All I can say is that Teflon tape IS your friend! lol

Thanks Jaggedfury.


----------



## Kayen

Hi - two people with the same problem ... anyone want to help?


----------



## Gafi

is the check valve a must? just didnt see that info layed out in your setup guide


----------



## Gafi

is this the right valve....only thing that our home depot has....alothought it reads 3/8" on the package http://www.homedepot.ca/product/poly-tube-to-male-pipe-angle-needle/924681


----------



## Taari

Thank you to whoever bumped this thread up! i've been looking for something like this for a while! I'm very interested in putting a paintball CO2 setup on all my tanks eventually!


----------



## Jaggedfury

njs74 said:


> Read through most of this thread... awesome thread and great info! I got my DIY paintball setup using an ace needle valve and a guage/asa valve from [Ebay Link Removed] No leaks and working as it should!... After several frustrating hours of going back and forth trying to fix issues with leaks and pressure loss.
> All I can say is that Teflon tape IS your friend! lol
> Thanks Jaggedfury.


No problem! Glad it worked out for you.


Kayen said:


> Hi - two people with the same problem ... anyone want to help?


Regarding your setup, have you replaced the 2 O rings on the Depress Pin. The 2 O rings on the Depress Pin when observing it will look fine. You will not be able to tell if it bad or not until you replace the 2 O rings and stick it back in place. It should hold itself back in place with the new 2 O rings that will be on it.

I have never experience or had a problem with the Depress Pin not holding in place after the replacement of the 2 O rings when it comes time to re-fill the Paintball Co2 Tank.

Please make sure you use the rightg O rings as well. 



Gafi said:


> is the check valve a must? just didnt see that info layed out in your setup guide


The Check Valve is optional. It's not needed but the system will work without it. It's a safety item incase when the Pressure of the Paintball Co2 Tank empties, the water doesn't siphon back into the Paintball Co2 Tank itself. Check Valve are dime a dozen, fairly cheap so if you feel like getting it to be on the safe side, go for it.

That is not the right Needle Valve. Any Needle Valve that you want to experience with this Paintball Setup idea dealing with a ASA On/Off Valve, must have at least a 1/8'' NPT. Any sizes from 1/4'' to 3/4'' to 3/8'' will not work unless you manage to find reducer fittings.


----------



## JumboNutz

Will CO2 lower your pH making it more acidic?


----------



## Taari

Hey, I just found this website 
http://www.brineshrimpegg.com/co2equipments.htm
That has all the pictures in this thread in it. I'm going to assume that this is your own website? $35 for the kit, does that come with everything needed or do I still have to track down some parts myself? Either way that's a good deal. I called around and couldn't find the ASA valves except at one place and they were $35 for just that.


----------



## njs74

JumboNutz said:


> Will CO2 lower your pH making it more acidic?


Although I'm fairly new to planted aquariums and CO2, I've read several posts by experienced hobbyists who have used a drop in pH levels as an indicator for diffused CO2 in their systems.

Theoretically, CO2 will drop pH as that's how the controlling mechanism behind our own physiological respiration rates work via CO2 in our spinal fluid dropping pH levels which in turn increases our respiration rate....


----------



## John7429

Great thread. I didn't read all 83972943 pages but there are solenoids you can buy to put in-line if you want to have the CO2 injection closed/off when the lights are off...


----------



## Kayen

Jagged - where can i purchase said o-rings? 
I'm bringing it into a paintball shop tomorrow.


----------



## dmxsoulja3

Just wanted to post an update, after switching to the swag. valve, and also testing one of the needle valves off of a old Milwaukee regulator, I found both to hold a very steady low bubble count. I was surprised by the one off the regulator, it can be purchased at the shrimp lab, and I'm sure many other places just a simple knob with fitting for tube but it has no issues keeping a constant rate without adjusting on the paintball tank straight out of Jagged's ASA valve. Like many others the Watts valve just wouldn't stay steady, I taped it everywhere, dunked it in buckets, no leaks, it just backs off, you won't be disappointed with the swaglok valve or the other needle valve, and at 9 bucks off ebay for the swag. come on people dont give yourself a headache over this, skip lunch one day, and order it, you will be happy you did . 

Also, replace your tank O-rings and ASA rings each time you refill your bottle, they are literally pennies in cost and make a big difference on leaks.


----------



## ddtran46

Quick question..

Is this suppose to come out easily? I don't remember it falling off when I first used it and after removing the regulator from the paintball tank, the pin fell on the floor.

I'm talking about this pin:


----------



## MrBobby

If it falls out that means the O-rings need to be replaced, from the main post "The O rings are easily replacecable. It's like .58 cents per 3-6 O rings. Part number at Lowes is BrassCraft # 0533. The size is 1/4"ID x 3/8"OD x 1/16" Wall Thickness." I believe this is the correct O-ring but it has also been mentioned many times in the thread if you want to confirm that. If you don't replace them then you will leak co2 from the pin.


----------



## Taari

Do the ASA valves have a standard hole size? All the ones I'm finding on ebay say they have 1/8" npt threaded holes, is that the thread distance or the size of the hole?

Also, I see some people suggesting using a swagelok needle valve. Do they come with the compression ring like the Watts one does? Am I looking for a 1/4" male threaded part?


----------



## DaveFason

I am just about to set up my Do!Aqua 12" cube and would like to include a small CO2 system. I work at a paintball store and have been doing it for 15+ years. I have a system that I think would work but would like to go over it with the experts. 

I am missing a couple connections but those will be in place. 

I will have an adapter to the silver piece. The silver piece then goes to a regulator 0-200 PSI. Then the output will be connected to a piece that can taken off and hooked to a Ideal Needle valve. Then to a check valve and to a diffuser. 










My main question is the PSI I should run to the needle valve. 10-30 PSI and then let the needle valve do the rest?

Thanks in advance! 

-Dave


----------



## dreamt_01

Thank you Jase for giving this tutorial and giving time to answer most of the questions here..

I made or even copied your system almost down to the t..



















One question though, how to control the BPS? Because when I manage to put it on 1/bps it somehow raises to 2-3/bps.. 

Do I have to turn it off during night time? especially i still can't get it down to 1/bps..

Again, Thanks a lot!


----------



## Jaggedfury

Taari said:


> Hey, I just found this website
> http://www.brineshrimpegg.com/co2equipments.htm
> That has all the pictures in this thread in it. I'm going to assume that this is your own website? $35 for the kit, does that come with everything needed or do I still have to track down some parts myself? Either way that's a good deal. I called around and couldn't find the ASA valves except at one place and they were $35 for just that.


Oh wow! No, that isn't my website. I don't have a website. This was a idea that I brought into the forum late last year and folks wanted me to start offering the setup to them. From there, it just sprung off. 
Whoever owns that site didn't ask my permission for anything... shocked. 


Kayen said:


> Jagged - where can i purchase said o-rings?
> I'm bringing it into a paintball shop tomorrow.


The O rings can be bought at Homedepot or Lowes. If you're referring to the Pin Valve O ring on the Paintball Co2 Tank, a Local Paintball Sport Store should be able to help you with that.



ddtran46 said:


> Quick question..
> Is this suppose to come out easily? I don't remember it falling off when I first used it and after removing the regulator from the paintball tank, the pin fell on the floor.
> I'm talking about this pin:


"If it falls out that means the O-rings need to be replaced, from the main post "The O rings are easily replacecable. It's like .58 cents per 3-6 O rings. Part number at Lowes is BrassCraft # 0533. The size is 1/4"ID x 3/8"OD x 1/16" Wall Thickness." I believe this is the correct O-ring but it has also been mentioned many times in the thread if you want to confirm that. If you don't replace them then you will leak co2 from the pin. " Quoted by MrBobby which is correct.
The rubber O rings on the Depress Pin overtime gets used up. Therefore it leaks as to any other rubber O rings dealing with pressurized gas. The above is the correct part number to reference at Homedepot or Lowes. They sell them in 3, 6, 10, 20 per package. Fairly inexpensive as well. Pick out the old rubber O rings, and put slide two new ones on.



Taari said:


> Do the ASA valves have a standard hole size? All the ones I'm finding on ebay say they have 1/8" npt threaded holes, is that the thread distance or the size of the hole?
> Also, I see some people suggesting using a swagelok needle valve. Do they come with the compression ring like the Watts one does? Am I looking for a 1/4" male threaded part?


All ASA On/Off Valve are 1/8'' NPT. That is the threaded hole size. You will need a 1/8"" NPT to screw onto it. A 3/4'' won't fit, a 3/8'' won't fit, a 1/4'' won't fit. Unelss you get a sort of inducer or reducer coupling to step it up or step it down.
Swagelok makes 1/8" NPT Needle Valve. The Input will be 1/8'' NPT which will let you thread it on ANY ASA On/Off Valve. The output will also be 1/8" NPT as well on the Swagelok Needle Valve. It's up to you to figure out which coupling is needed on the Output side of the Swagelok Needle Valve to make it work to where it will accept a co2 tubing. 
Parts for that are mentioned a few hundred pages back on the DIY Paintball Page of this forum.



DaveFason said:


> I am just about to set up my Do!Aqua 12" cube and would like to include a small CO2 system. I work at a paintball store and have been doing it for 15+ years. I have a system that I think would work but would like to go over it with the experts.
> I am missing a couple connections but those will be in place.
> I will have an adapter to the silver piece. The silver piece then goes to a regulator 0-200 PSI. Then the output will be connected to a piece that can taken off and hooked to a Ideal Needle valve. Then to a check valve and to a diffuser.
> My main question is the PSI I should run to the needle valve. 10-30 PSI and then let the needle valve do the rest?
> Thanks in advance!
> -Dave


Can't say much on the Regulator portion of your install. Not all Regulators are the same. A Regulator is not needed, the system will work fine without it.

Fiddle with it and let us know.



dreamt_01 said:


> Thank you Jase for giving this tutorial and giving time to answer most of the questions here..
> I made or even copied your system almost down to the t..
> One question though, how to control the BPS? Because when I manage to put it on 1/bps it somehow raises to 2-3/bps..
> Do I have to turn it off during night time? especially i still can't get it down to 1/bps..
> Again, Thanks a lot!


They key to fine tuning the bps is to slightly adjust the needle valve. It doesn't take much to adjust it. Majority of us leaves it on 24/7.


----------



## HolyAngel

Wow yeah those pics and the words look pretty much verbatim from your posts jagged.. 
I'm pretty sure that's a lawsuit waiting to happen and there is definitely something you can do about that if you haven't already contacted them. That's pretty low of them


----------



## dreamt_01

yeah, i forgot to edit my post.. i managed to tune it down to 1/bps by using tapping T arm of the needle valve with something heavy just to turn it a tad bit.. 

again, thank you good sir!


----------



## wespastor

The owners of that website seem to have stolen just about every video and picture on their site. I would not be one to buy anything from them ever. I wonder if the testimonials are even real. 

It's one thing to post pictures and videos on a public forum for another's personal use but to highjack them to a private website for profit is a different story.

Sorry for the highjack ... but this just infuriates me ... makes me not want to post my DIY ideas so thats others can benefit from what I have learned because someone will steal it for profit.

I would find a lawyer ASAP.

Best wishes,
Wes


----------



## Gafi

Hey I am running this setup.....and am having problems with a tiny leak at my bubble counter....I cant add the pic here so ill link it to the main thread I have....click the link and the picture with arrow will show you where I am having the leak....let me know if you have any ideas on how to seal this. 
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/145639-diy-pressurized-paintball-co2-leak-help.html#post1484082


----------



## kamikazi

Awesome write up, if I decide to go with CO2 on my tanks (29 and 40) this will be how I do it!


----------



## tetra73

I thought I add my experience with Jase's setup. Just want to add that the CO2 tubing issue. It is better you either order the tubing from Jase or get yourself a 1/4 size vinyl tubing from Lowe or Homedepot. They are actually bigger than your aquarium CO2 tubing. With the vinyl tubing, the compression ring would just slide in with a bit of resistance. With the aquarium CO2 tubing, the ring would just slide freely. With the vinyl tubing, you don't get much "play" or "wiggle room" at all once you insert it to the needle valve. Also, I only use about a foot long of the vinyl tubing connecting to the tank. Then, I use a coupler (brass) to connect to the aquarium CO2 tubing, which is directly connected to my diffuser (powerhead). 

The needle valve issue with fine tuning the bubble rate. I have some success with initially bleeding off more CO2 first, maybe 7 to 9 bps. After an hour or so, the flow rate should taper off around half the rate. I believe this is just the nature of the beast that the initial pressure would cause more CO2 to bleed off. It will taper off at some point. You get bubble rate fluctuations not because your valve is turning by itself because of the pressure.


----------



## dreamt_01

i got a cheap glass/ceramic diffuser from ebay, and it need more pressure to have something in it.. and i ended up using the diffuser as an air bubbler for my shrimp tank and i planned to switch back to my old mini-hagen filter/diffuser... 

i went out to get my co2 paintball tank refilled and i changed it with a new o-ring.. when i got home, i put it up, checked for leaks, and it was running well with 1/bps for a few minutes.. and so i left and chilled.. but probably 2 hours after i found this.. 



















scared me a bit cause i don't do paintball stuff and didn't know if the tank would explode.. anyway, what could be the source of the problem here?

thanks..


----------



## Yiannis

Anyone willing to build this setup and ship it to Cyprus? Can't find any parts where I live yet!

Please help!


----------



## tetra73

dreamt_01 said:


> i got a cheap glass/ceramic diffuser from ebay, and it need more pressure to have something in it.. and i ended up using the diffuser as an air bubbler for my shrimp tank and i planned to switch back to my old mini-hagen filter/diffuser...
> 
> i went out to get my co2 paintball tank refilled and i changed it with a new o-ring.. when i got home, i put it up, checked for leaks, and it was running well with 1/bps for a few minutes.. and so i left and chilled.. but probably 2 hours after i found this..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> scared me a bit cause i don't do paintball stuff and didn't know if the tank would explode.. anyway, what could be the source of the problem here?
> 
> thanks..


Looks like a leak by the opening of the tank. Causing CO2 to cover the side of it. With 1 bps per minute, your valve isn't even open.


----------



## Yiannis

This is what I currently found so far for this project:

Ebay item number 220821348133 PaintNoMore - Paintball 20 oz CO2 Pinvalve Flasche

Ebay item number 180641644200 Paintball Co2 Fill Adaptor Remote On/Off 3000psi Gauge

Wil these do for the project and will they fit each other?


----------



## Jaggedfury

dreamt_01 said:


> i got a cheap glass/ceramic diffuser from ebay, and it need more pressure to have something in it.. and i ended up using the diffuser as an air bubbler for my shrimp tank and i planned to switch back to my old mini-hagen filter/diffuser...
> 
> i went out to get my co2 paintball tank refilled and i changed it with a new o-ring.. when i got home, i put it up, checked for leaks, and it was running well with 1/bps for a few minutes.. and so i left and chilled.. but probably 2 hours after i found this..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> scared me a bit cause i don't do paintball stuff and didn't know if the tank would explode.. anyway, what could be the source of the problem here?
> 
> thanks..


Looks to me like a bad Pin Valve or Pin Valve O ring that goes onto of the Pin Valve.


----------



## Aldon

is it ok to run this set up without the gauge? i found a asa on/off valve but it only has one hole for the needle valve well this be a problem?


----------



## ez8

Aaaaahhh! I'm at my wit's end here. 

I know nothing about paintball so I don't know what ASA would work or where to find one. None of the sporting good shops in my area carry an ASA, just some kind of tank filling station that looks kind of like what I need. 

Does anyone have a link to an ASA and gauge that I can get through the internet?


----------



## MrBobby

Just wondering how quickly peoples tanks drop in pressure. It has been about 3 weeks and my gauge is showing about 500psi @ 1bps (started at around 1000psi).
Curious if this is about right or if I have to double check all my fittings for a leak.


----------



## supaoopa

Been looking around for the right needle valve other then the home depot one and came accross this. Is this ok to use? 

Soft tip needle valve


They also offer a 'hard tip" needle valve with double the max psi rating but the soft tip is already max rated at 3000psi which is already fine from what i've read. Is either any better long term? For making fine adjustments? 

Great thread by the way. :icon_mrgr


----------



## tetra73

supaoopa said:


> Been looking around for the right needle valve other then the home depot one and came accross this. Is this ok to use?
> 
> Soft tip needle valve
> 
> 
> They also offer a 'hard tip" needle valve with double the max psi rating but the soft tip is already max rated at 3000psi which is already fine from what i've read. Is either any better long term? For making fine adjustments?
> 
> Great thread by the way. :icon_mrgr



Personally, I don't believe ANY needle valve would allow you to fine tune your bubble rate when you are dealing with 800 psi. The valve with a higher rating may have a better fail safe margin.


----------



## Jaggedfury

Aldon said:


> is it ok to run this set up without the gauge? i found a asa on/off valve but it only has one hole for the needle valve well this be a problem?


It is perfectly fine to run it without a Gauge. Paintball Co2 tank depending on which one you purchase, do have Gauge indicator on the side of the tank other than having to put a Gauge on the ASA On/Off Valve. One hole threaded ASA On/Off Valve will be fine.



ez8 said:


> Aaaaahhh! I'm at my wit's end here.
> I know nothing about paintball so I don't know what ASA would work or where to find one. None of the sporting good shops in my area carry an ASA, just some kind of tank filling station that looks kind of like what I need.
> Does anyone have a link to an ASA and gauge that I can get through the internet?


Go to yahoo.com, type in "Paintball ASA on/Off Valve" in your search button through yahoo. You should come up with so many online stores that sells them. ASA On/Off Valve comes in many shapes and sizes. 



MrBobby said:


> Just wondering how quickly peoples tanks drop in pressure. It has been about 3 weeks and my gauge is showing about 500psi @ 1bps (started at around 1000psi).
> Curious if this is about right or if I have to double check all my fittings for a leak.


That sounds about right. Extreme temperature plays a slight part in it as well. Unsure how to explain the 1000psi starting point. Paintball Co2 fully filled are often times around 800-850 psi max. 900 psi is pushing it already.



supaoopa said:


> Been looking around for the right needle valve other then the home depot one and came accross this. Is this ok to use?
> Soft tip needle valve
> They also offer a 'hard tip" needle valve with double the max psi rating but the soft tip is already max rated at 3000psi which is already fine from what i've read. Is either any better long term? For making fine adjustments?
> Great thread by the way.


I can see those Needle Valve being couple on to the Paintball Setups with a few other adapters and fittings. As far as functionally, it's difficult to say until someone actually experiments with it.


----------



## MrBobby

Jaggedfury said:


> That sounds about right. Extreme temperature plays a slight part in it as well. Unsure how to explain the 1000psi starting point. Paintball Co2 fully filled are often times around 800-850 psi max. 900 psi is pushing it already.


Thanks for the reply now I don't have to go leak hunting. 
The starting pressure kinda scared me too but I wasn't too worried after some research I found the tank is rated according to the stamp on it for up to 1800 max psi.


----------



## tetra73

MrBobby said:


> Thanks for the reply now I don't have to go leak hunting.
> The starting pressure kinda scared me too but I wasn't too worried after some research I found the tank is rated according to the stamp on it for up to 1800 max psi.



That's because the tank has been overfilled. Mine started out with 1500 psi... I had to let it bleed out some CO2 down to 1000 psi. After couple of days running at 3 to 4 bps, it is now down to 800psi. I believe previously some of the liquid CO2 topped out by the narrow neck of the tank bottle.


----------



## herns

I cant decide what size of tank to get between 20 oz and 24 oz. I've read 24 oz is too bulky.

Can anyone help?
Thanks in advance.


----------



## HolyAngel

The bigger the tank the longer you have to wait between filling, I really recommend you getting two tanks so when one empties you can just swap in the other and get the emptied one filled in the meantime. Also, always keep some new o-rings for the Asa valve handy as you never know when you will need them.


----------



## herns

Thats a good idea getting two tanks.

I'am a big fan of assembling my own dual stage regulators. They are built like tanks. I recently plan to have a 5 gal tank on a small niche counter with 16x 24x 18" clearance height. Getting a standard regulator mounted on 2.5 lbs or 5 lbs cylinder tank would be too bulky. So, I decided to try a paintball type system a try.


----------



## herns

Jaggedfury said:


> If I wanted to, I can always turn it off at night and turn it back on in the morning when my lights switches on.


Does anybody experience leakage on the ASA On/Off valve when it got turned On/Off everyday? Or would this be a problem later on?


----------



## tetra73

herns said:


> Does anybody experience leakage on the ASA On/Off valve when it got turned On/Off everyday? Or would this be a problem later on?



I had this problem on Sat. One of the O ring on the on/off valve needle was deformed. My PSI was dropped from 800 PSI the night before to 300 PSI the next morning. I don't turn it on or off.  However, I played with the setting a lot when I first got the system. I believe whenever you adjust the on/off valve, the O ring gets damaged or deformed due to CO2 gas expansion. I think it is best to leave it ON.


----------



## herns

tetra73 said:


> I had this problem on Sat. One of the O ring on the on/off valve needle was deformed.QUOTE]
> 
> That's what I'm weary about when I thought of turning it On/Off. It's like a faucet that create water leaks overtime.


----------



## Eden Marel

I can't get my BPS steady on the regulator I made myself the first time. It either does a bajillion bps, or 2bps BUT then peters out to 0 bps within several minutes. I've done test leaks, and there are no leaks. 

I've move the needle valve very slightly, but still can't get it to do a low bps at a steady rate, no matter how slight the movement its going to be either a bajillion bps or 2bps but then into 0bps within minutes....


----------



## Aldon

*My Rig*

How is going everyone!!!? i just built my setup and i figured id share what i have so far. every thing seems to be working i tested for leaks and all seems to be ok other than i cant seem to get a steady bubble count i can get it set at about 1 bubble for every 2 seconds but then it slowley drops to about a bubble every 4-5 secs is their anything i can to to get it to stay at a steady bubble count?
Thanks for the help this is a great thread and i was able to build this rig for about 30 dollars allot better than 150... thanks for the help :biggrin:

Here's a pic:


----------



## sayurasem

Eden Marel said:


> I can't get my BPS steady on the regulator I made myself the first time. It either does a bajillion bps, or 2bps BUT then peters out to 0 bps within several minutes. I've done test leaks, and there are no leaks.
> 
> I've move the needle valve very slightly, but still can't get it to do a low bps at a steady rate, no matter how slight the movement its going to be either a bajillion bps or 2bps but then into 0bps within minutes....



I feel you. These needle valve from home depot/ lowes are designed for flow of water/ liquids. its really hard to *fine* tune the flow.

I have one suggestion: use double valve (2 needle valves connected after each other.) That might slow down and fine tune the flow of the gas.

i found this out by looking at my swamp cooler for my house.


----------



## supaoopa

Finally got all the parts I need to get this started. But I failed at making it cost effective. Lol. 

I'm in about $80 with what you see here. I did spurge a bit on the Asa because it was the exact style I wanted with the pressure gauge included. :redface:


----------



## supaoopa

Soooo... Anyone have any updates on their setups? Before and after pics of your tanks with this setup?

After a week of battling with the home depot valve I think I may have finally won the battle today at keeping a constant bubble count for more then 24 hours. :icon_cool :thumbsup:

That being said, I went out and picked up some more goodies for another co2 tank setup since I'm planning on pressurizing four tanks in total. One of them will be at another house so "set it and forget it" is a must. Picked this up at AquaForest today. 










Homemade vs store bought.


----------



## Chiro

wespastor said:


> The owners of that website seem to have stolen just about every video and picture on their site. I would not be one to buy anything from them ever. I wonder if the testimonials are even real.
> 
> It's one thing to post pictures and videos on a public forum for another's personal use but to highjack them to a private website for profit is a different story.
> 
> Sorry for the highjack ... but this just infuriates me ... makes me not want to post my DIY ideas so thats others can benefit from what I have learned because someone will steal it for profit.
> 
> I would find a lawyer ASAP.
> 
> Best wishes,
> Wes


A quick whois of the domain name gives all their contact info.


----------



## sayurasem

supaoopa said:


> Soooo... Anyone have any updates on their setups? Before and after pics of your tanks with this setup?
> 
> After a week of battling with the home depot valve I think I may have finally won the battle today at keeping a constant bubble count for more then 24 hours. :icon_cool :thumbsup:
> 
> That being said, I went out and picked up some more goodies for another co2 tank setup since I'm planning on pressurizing four tanks in total. One of them will be at another house so "set it and forget it" is a must. Picked this up at AquaForest today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Homemade vs store bought.


any pic with the new regulator attached to the paintball?
is the regulator good?


----------



## Jaggedfury

Looking good folks! Use your own ideas, endless possibilities!


----------



## jkan0228

Just wondering: what is the o ring for? And does it work with the atomic diffuser from GLA? which needs about 30-35 psi


----------



## Salmon McCloud

Will this on/off ASA adapter work
Ebay item number 170608760662


----------



## Jaggedfury

jkan0228 said:


> Just wondering: what is the o ring for? And does it work with the atomic diffuser from GLA? which needs about 30-35 psi


The O rings are provided in quanities of 10 per 1 ASA On/Off Valve ordered. Picture below of what a Depress Pin is.










You will need to replace the O rings on the Depress Pin when it comes time to re-fill your Paintball Co2 Tank. Over time the O rings gets used up under pressurized. Maintance type ordeal.

*With g33tar permissions, the GLA Super Diffuser/Atomic Diffuser works great with the Paintball Co2 Setup. 

**http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KYQDDBjX5s*



Salmon McCloud said:


> Will this on/off ASA adapter work
> Ebay item number 170608760662


You've got PM with replied.


----------



## jkan0228

So do you basically take it apart and replace the 2 O Rings?
And did the ASA valve that I got from you come with 2 O rings installed already? I haven't checked it yet and I'm not at home right now either...


----------



## Jaggedfury

The ASA On/Off Valve comes with 2 O rings installed. Over time the rubber gets used up, warp, flex, rip and so on. I started to provide 10 free O rings a few months back on orders after May 16th.

The O rings are meant to be replaced when the "Depress Pin" falls off by itself, thus causing a leak within that area. By replacing the 2 O rings once the "Depress Pin" falls off by itself, it will get your setup back running again.

O rings can be bought at Homedepot or Lowes, they come in different packages such as 3, 8, 10, 15 for $1-$3 dollars.


----------



## sayurasem

Jaggedfury said:


> The ASA On/Off Valve comes with 2 O rings installed. Over time the rubber gets used up, warp, flex, rip and so on. I started to provide 10 free O rings a few months back on orders after May 16th.
> 
> The O rings are meant to be replaced when the "Depress Pin" falls off by itself, thus causing a leak within that area. By replacing the 2 O rings once the "Depress Pin" falls off by itself, it will get your setup back running again.
> 
> O rings can be bought at Homedepot or Lowes, they come in different packages such as 3, 8, 10, 15 for $1-$3 dollars.



my depress ring "fall off" by it self every time. even though its brand new o-rings. I guess my fault buying 6 dollars asa on/off valve lol.

-well to solve this problem, simply dip your "depress pin" in grease (only dip until both of the o-rings are covered by grease, do not dip the whole thing. avoid to cover the pin by grease).

by this, the thick grease will block any co2 trying to leak out from the depress pin. (must clean and re-dip into grease everytime you refill tank)

*** so do NOT buy 6 dollars asa on/off valve.... lol atleast buy the 11 dollars one with 2 threads plus free pressure gauge! If you want the best, CP (custom paint) asa on/off valve is unquestionable ($26-30 bucks)


----------



## Salmon McCloud

Where is the best place to buy 2 full co2 tanks, for a decent price?


----------



## jkan0228

I got mine at sports authority. Or any paintball shop.


----------



## sayurasem

Salmon McCloud said:


> Where is the best place to buy 2 full co2 tanks, for a decent price?



The best as in price? well of course its online. ebay, amazon, etc.
but most of the time those tanks are empty. Because if they are not empty, shipping cost are expensive.


----------



## John7429

Uum... No. It's because its illegal to ship compressed gas


----------



## jkan0228

Cuz it'll probably go BOOM. and well that's not really good for shipping companies.


----------



## Salmon McCloud

I wasn't sure if hardware stores sold them or not, that was my premise of asking the question. anywho. Is there any particular co2 tank that you guys have found promising? Something I can find online.


----------



## Yiannis

Is there a chance to have CO2 dumping with such a system? 

Also could someone explain how CO2 dumping occurs?


----------



## jkan0228

Btw if you add another needle valve, will it make it easier to adjust the co2 rate?


----------



## talontsiawd

jkan0228 said:


> Btw if you add another needle valve, will it make it easier to adjust the co2 rate?


Yes and no. Initially, you will be able to make finer adjustments. But, needle valves don't regulate pressure so eventually it will all even out, so your bubble count may slowly change. Once the pressure is equalized (sorry, not really the right word), you can more easily fine tune.

This is one of the reasons why almost anyone would prefer a regulator in the equation if you are not considering cost.


----------



## supaoopa

sayurasem said:


> any pic with the new regulator attached to the paintball?
> is the regulator good?


So far so good. Already have two of these setups running. The one pictured below on a 12oz bottle, and a 24oz on my 55g. May end up just taking off the paintball adapter and run a 5lb bottle for the 55g.











My DIY co2 is also still hanging in there. Still can't get a steady stream for more then 2 days without making an adjustment but the tank I have it on is having great growth so I can't complain to much about that.


----------



## DaveFason

Hey guys, 
I am working on a DRS with paintball regulator and a smaller cheaper regulator as well. If you go on ebay you can find paintball regulators that can be adjusted from 80-500psi. Connect this to your needle/meter valve and you will have a MUCH more consistent and accurate set up. Most of the regulators you can buy are around $30-70 depending if you buy used or new. The regulators them selves are extremely accurate and reliable. I have been playing paintball for a VERY long time so if you guys have any questions I'll be more than happy to help you out. 

Few good ones. again you can find TONS of these used and add gauges. 
http://store.customproducts.us/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.prodInfo&productID=237&categoryID=4
http://palmer-pursuit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=175
DYE is one of the best regs I have ever used.
http://shop.dyepaintball.com/en_us/hard-parts/hyper3-inline-air-regulator.html
http://www.ansgear.com/Bob_Long_360_Inline_Regulator_Blue_p/boblong360regulatorblue.htm
http://www.ansgear.com/Azodin_Inline_Regulator_Dust_Black_p/azodinregulatordustblack.htm

One nice thing about these is regulators is they are a fraction of the weight. 

-Dave


----------



## sayurasem

supaoopa said:


> So far so good. Already have two of these setups running. The one pictured below on a 12oz bottle, and a 24oz on my 55g. May end up just taking off the paintball adapter and run a 5lb bottle for the 55g.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My DIY co2 is also still hanging in there. Still can't get a steady stream for more then 2 days without making an adjustment but the tank I have it on is having great growth so I can't complain to much about that.



are you freakin serious????? any addition connection you need???
this is the cleanest regulator I've ever seen. 

-what about the bubble rate? is it steady? does it need to be adjust every week like normal asa valve?

thx for the picture dude!


----------



## sayurasem

DaveFason said:


> Hey guys,
> I am working on a DRS with paintball regulator and a smaller cheaper regulator as well. If you go on ebay you can find paintball regulators that can be adjusted from 80-500psi. Connect this to your needle/meter valve and you will have a MUCH more consistent and accurate set up. Most of the regulators you can buy are around $30-70 depending if you buy used or new. The regulators them selves are extremely accurate and reliable. I have been playing paintball for a VERY long time so if you guys have any questions I'll be more than happy to help you out.
> 
> Few good ones. again you can find TONS of these used and add gauges.
> http://store.customproducts.us/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.prodInfo&productID=237&categoryID=4
> http://palmer-pursuit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=175
> DYE is one of the best regs I have ever used.
> http://shop.dyepaintball.com/en_us/hard-parts/hyper3-inline-air-regulator.html
> http://www.ansgear.com/Bob_Long_360_Inline_Regulator_Blue_p/boblong360regulatorblue.htm
> http://www.ansgear.com/Azodin_Inline_Regulator_Dust_Black_p/azodinregulatordustblack.htm
> 
> One nice thing about these is regulators is they are a fraction of the weight.
> 
> -Dave



newbie here.... so any picture those regulators are connected? I cant picture it lol.


----------



## Jakeup

Thank you so much for writing this article.

I know you might not look on here anymore as this was written a little while ago, but if it wasn't for you I would have never figured out how to do a paintball co2 system

Very awesome write up!


----------



## supaoopa

sayurasem said:


> are you freakin serious????? any addition connection you need???
> this is the cleanest regulator I've ever seen.
> 
> -what about the bubble rate? is it steady? does it need to be adjust every week like normal asa valve?
> 
> thx for the picture dude!


Just need co2 line and electrical plug for the solenoid to open. Works great so far, haven't touched it since I set it up.


----------



## 17882

How big of an improvement would adding a paintball regulator in there before the needle valve be?

If I did add the regulator, would it mean I didn't need as high quality a needle valve?


----------



## somewhatshocked

Regulators regulate the working pressure of the gas. Without one, say, your pressure hitting the needle valve could be 700-800psi. A regulator could cut that down to (just picking a random number) maybe 30psi. That means less pressure would be hitting your needle valve.

With a regulator, you can also typically use a solenoid and that would allow you to automatically turn CO2 off at night if you want.

Always a good idea to use a high quality needle valve, though, if you want to control your bubble rate. It's worth the $10-$30 in my opinion.


----------



## 17882

Gotcha, thanks. I used to paintball and realized that, with the exception of a needle valve and a few brass fittings, I've got everything to make this work already. Win!


----------



## somewhatshocked

Since you already have most of the goods, I highly recommend you spend a little extra and get a fancier needle valve. It'll be way more satisfying in the end.


----------



## supaoopa

What fancier needle valves are you guys talking about that are 10-30 more? All I could find were cheap needle valves that look similar to the home depot offering and them prices jump considerably for nicer valves but none that I could see working with the paintball Asa without adapter fittings. Wanna upgrade that awful home depot valve on my DIY setup.


----------



## somewhatshocked

There are tons of needle valves on the market. Tons for sale in the SnS, eBay, Amazon.

Google is your friend.


----------



## DiabolicPiggies

Just ordered my setup. Came up to about $68 total including shipping and cal tax. 
24oz Paintball C02 Canister

Redz On/Off ASA

1200 PSI Gauge


----------



## Salmon McCloud

Got my Paintball setup all ready to go, except a bubble counter and diffuser. Will most likely order from GLA tomorrow. Getting pretty excited!


----------



## bsmith

supaoopa said:


> What fancier needle valves are you guys talking about that are 10-30 more? All I could find were cheap needle valves that look similar to the home depot offering and them prices jump considerably for nicer valves but none that I could see working with the paintball Asa without adapter fittings. Wanna upgrade that awful home depot valve on my DIY setup.


Search this thread for needle valve and you will more than likely find more info on them then you would ever care to know.


----------



## R_Barber001

This is exactly what I will be doing tomorrow.lol


----------



## sayurasem

I have a question.... I have been using this setup for about 4 months now....

pretty good for a cheap initial cost. Btw will this Jaggedfury setup cause "end of tank dump" to paintball tanks? how?


----------



## Calmia22

I can't find cheap metal or glass check valves anywhere. Will the plastic one from lfs suffice with this? It's the only thing I am missing for my co2 setup.


----------



## sayurasem

Calmia22 said:


> I can't find cheap metal or glass check valves anywhere. Will the plastic one from lfs suffice with this? It's the only thing I am missing for my co2 setup.


define "cheap" does $6 work for you? there are many *glass* check valve *plus* *glass* bubble counter at Ebay. here is the item number 180688825036


----------



## AUAV8R

So I just set up my paintball co2 last week. My 20 oz. paintball tank had 800psi when I started, and today it is down to 200psi in one week. Is this normal? It is between 2 and 3 bps (my home depot needle valve is hard to set) on a 75 gallon tank with a DIY inline co2 diffuser.


----------



## Salmon McCloud

Sounds like you have a leak somewhere in your system.


----------



## sayurasem

AUAV8R said:


> So I just set up my paintball co2 last week. My 20 oz. paintball tank had 800psi when I started, and today it is down to 200psi in one week. Is this normal? It is between 2 and 3 bps (my home depot needle valve is hard to set) on a 75 gallon tank with a DIY inline co2 diffuser.


probably a leakage. But I remembered the first time I setup my system it only lasted like 2 and a half weeks, because I wasted a lot of gas/pressure trying to fine tune my needle first time.


----------



## AUAV8R

I went today and refilled my paintball tank and after hooking it back up I submerged the whole setup and did not have any leaks. I will give it another shot and see how long this one lasts. By the way, I found this needle valve (Item#260750139749) on eBay... is this one any better than the Home Depot variety?


----------



## somewhatshocked

Without knowing who manufactured the valve, it's tough to comment on the specifics or its durability.

For that price (including shipping), though, you could get a cheap Swagelok on eBay.


----------



## Mgiorgi1221

Where can I find a ts brand Asa on off 2 thread valve to buy?


----------



## Mgiorgi1221

Anyone


----------



## somewhatshocked

Usually takes a bit longer than fifteen minutes for people to see a question and respond.

Google is your friend, fyi. Found Turbosmart-branded on/off valves for sale on Amazon and at several other retailers.


----------



## Mgiorgi1221

Ok and thanks!


----------



## sayurasem

Mgiorgi1221 said:


> Where can I find a ts brand Asa on off 2 thread valve to buy?


whats ts brand? there is one at ebay (no brand) 2 threaded valves + gauge already installed for $13.75


----------



## sayurasem

AUAV8R said:


> I went today and refilled my paintball tank and after hooking it back up I submerged the whole setup and did not have any leaks. I will give it another shot and see how long this one lasts. By the way, I found this needle valve (Item#260750139749) on eBay... is this one any better than the Home Depot variety?


It seems that it has 2 nipple (hose connections) on both ends. So if that valve doesn't have a 1/8 male thread, I don't think it will connect to paintball's on/off asa.

Btw if you're thinking to get a swagelok valve, keep in mind you have to spend about 3 more dollars on extra fittings so the needle valve can connect to the air tube.


----------



## AUAV8R

Btw if you're thinking to get a swagelok valve, keep in mind you have to spend about 3 more dollars on extra fittings so the needle valve can connect to the air tube.[/QUOTE]

Would the fittings from my current Home Depot brand needle valve not work?


----------



## Yiannis

Will any of these regulators fit the paintball CO2 Tanks?

http://www.aquariumhk.net/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=115_135


----------



## coldmantis

AUAV8R said:


> I went today and refilled my paintball tank and after hooking it back up I submerged the whole setup and did not have any leaks. I will give it another shot and see how long this one lasts. By the way, I found this needle valve (Item#260750139749) on eBay... is this one any better than the Home Depot variety?


I have 6 of those, they work better then the swaglok, But I use it on a regulated paintball setup, so I'm not sure if it has enough psi to hold off an unregulated setup.


----------



## Aldon

coldmantis said:


> I have 6 of those, they work better then the swaglok, But I use it on a regulated paintball setup, so I'm not sure if it has enough psi to hold off an unregulated setup.


I have a non regulated setup at the moment... Its a pain to set and never stays at a steady bubble count. What parts did u use to build your regulated paint ball setups? Or did u buy them complete? 
Thanks for the help


----------



## coldmantis

Aldon said:


> I have a non regulated setup at the moment... Its a pain to set and never stays at a steady bubble count. What parts did u use to build your regulated paint ball setups? Or did u buy them complete?
> Thanks for the help


look at page 100 not sure if you can get this for cheap in usa


----------



## sayurasem

AUAV8R said:


> Btw if you're thinking to get a swagelok valve, keep in mind you have to spend about 3 more dollars on extra fittings so the needle valve can connect to the air tube.


Would the fittings from my current Home Depot brand needle valve not work?[/QUOTE]

Read Page 57. Someone already figure out how to connect the swagelok needle valve into the tubing.


----------



## Aldon

coldmantis said:


> look at page 100 not sure if you can get this for cheap in usa


Dang 20$!! Thats awosem can u give me the exact name of youR rig? I know its a jacpac but which one?


----------



## coldmantis

Aldon said:


> Dang 20$!! Thats awosem can u give me the exact name of youR rig? I know its a jacpac but which one?


didn't know there was more then one jacpac, I'm pretty sure there is only one, the pic on the kit has a construction guy holding the tank+regulator connected to a nail gun or something like that.

and before I get flooded with I'm in CANADA TOO!! where did you get it, I got it from canadian tires, I see them all the time but at regular price around the 50-70 mark I got it when it was on for $20 I bought 4 of them, with this you can split the connection and have it on two tanks easliy, I ordered a solenoid valve when I get it and install it I'll take a pic of it. with this regulator all you need to buy is a 1/4 to 1/8 reducer coupling around 2-3 bucks and that's about it, I even used this with the cheapo home depot needle valve works like a charm. I usually run this at 20psi, and 40psi for those gla stlye atomizers.


----------



## II Knucklez II

thank you so much this has helped alot


----------



## sayurasem

II Knucklez II said:


> thank you so much this has helped alot


Awesome! Can you list your parts and cost to build your rig? (and of course pictures :hihi


----------



## RoyalFizbin

coldmantis said:


> didn't know there was more then one jacpac, I'm pretty sure there is only one, the pic on the kit has a construction guy holding the tank+regulator connected to a nail gun or something like that.
> 
> and before I get flooded with I'm in CANADA TOO!! where did you get it, I got it from canadian tires, I see them all the time but at regular price around the 50-70 mark I got it when it was on for $20 I bought 4 of them, with this you can split the connection and have it on two tanks easliy, I ordered a solenoid valve when I get it and install it I'll take a pic of it. with this regulator all you need to buy is a 1/4 to 1/8 reducer coupling around 2-3 bucks and that's about it, I even used this with the cheapo home depot needle valve works like a charm. I usually run this at 20psi, and 40psi for those gla stlye atomizers.


I'm in Canada too and I've never seen the jacpac sold at Canadian tires. Several years ago i saw them sold at home depot but they dont seem to sell them anymore. My local lowes has a similar system called the Kobalt Portable Compressed Co2 Regulator. They even have filled paintball canisters that you trade in your spent one for.


----------



## Naekuh

yeah i had to go the paintball route also.

In my location it can take almost a 30 min drive to go to a beer store and get a real tank filled.

Paintball store 10min. away will fill any paintball canister for 5 dollars regardless of size as long as its a paintball canister. 

And whats funny is a 20oz canister cost 5 dollars... if i take my 5lb tank inside, they charge 5 dollars / lb... 

ummm so i end up taking 4 20oz canisters with me instead fill up 4 bottles and dont go back unless i do something stupid with CO2.


and guys theres a guy in our sponsored forum whose selling a complete setup.
all you need is the line diffuser and paintball tank.

For those of you guys who want to know more, an expensive store will sell a 20oz paintball tank filled for roughly 29-35 dollars. 
You can get a empty tank online for around 15-20 dollars.... and then take the tank and get it filled. The choice is yours. 

The only thing i regret in a small setup tho, is the missing timer solinoid so it shuts off automatically for you.
But if ur the type who leaves co2 on all the time, the paintball route is a no brainer... because there is a TON more paintball stores who can recharge your tank more so then beer stores.


----------



## bruinhd

To all the naysayers that have been telling us "DIY Paintball CO2 is STUPID and COSTLY", may I present to you...

$16 20 oz paintball tank (Amazon)
$30 for Aquatek Paintball CO2 adapter + Myth CO2 regulator (Ebay)

= $46 DIY Paintball setup. And it looks hella sexy on a nano if I must say...


----------



## coldmantis

as promised, pic with solenoid installed. don't buy this solenoid it's loud


----------



## alexxa

i hv a 20oz paintball setup using a watts a41.
I set it to 1bps in the morning but at night it is down to 1bubble per 1.5seconds.
I checked and made sure there is no leak. Is there anyone who is having the same problem?


----------



## sayurasem

this is normal, I havetrouble in the first week too. but after that my BPS stays cool.


----------



## alexxa

sayurasem said:


> this is normal, I havetrouble in the first week too. but after that my BPS stays cool.


are you using a check valve?


----------



## sayurasem

nope, but I should lol


----------



## Jaggedfury

Cool, the thread is still going! I do read everyone's post but been really busy with purchasing a new house then relocating 10 years of materials.

I tore down a bunch of my tanks and is starting new. My 3 Paintball Setups have been not in used for almost 2 weeks. 

I've been noticing alot of new setups with different rigging, very awesome on that. Keep it coming, this setup is not set in stone so feel free to rig it up any way you like. Just keep in mind to not overdo it. I've experimented with over add-on parts which screw up the simple setup. Check Valves are not needed but is useful to have.


----------



## alexxa

this is really not acceptable, last night the bubble rate was 1 bubble every 0.6seconds, and this morning it rises up to 1bubble every 1.7 seconds!
is it time to refill my paintball tank?


----------



## galabar

Would it be a good idea to purchase a paintball CO2 regulator to place between the bottle and valve? They have some that step down the pressure to 300 PSI. This might (a) give you more consistent pressure and (b) allow you to use needle valves that can't handle the high pressure directly from the tank.


----------



## galabar

How about this:

http://www.sakworldpaintball.com/meredustadta.html


----------



## sayurasem

galabar said:


> Would it be a good idea to purchase a paintball CO2 regulator to place between the bottle and valve? They have some that step down the pressure to 300 PSI. This might (a) give you more consistent pressure and (b) allow you to use needle valves that can't handle the high pressure directly from the tank.



yes you can put a regulator before the needle valve, but idk about the regulator that u mentioned.


----------



## alexxa

i think i hv to refill my bottle now
its empty, i tried to press the pin on the paintball tank and no gas comes out


----------



## Rich Conley

Jaggedfury said:


> :biggrin: We'll take in consideration when this post was made. It's been well over 1 month and a few days... and my gauge is at a hairline below 800psi. At full, it was at 850psi. I know there's other consideration to take in effect such as room temperature and so fort. I based this on a 50psi reduction increment.
> 
> 1 month and a few days have pass resulted a little over 50psi drop. (Not counting 2-3 times shut it off and remove On/Off Valve for picture purpose to clear things up on this thread)
> 
> Estimate..
> 
> 50psi used = 1 month at 1bps. 850psi divided by 50psi = 17 times.
> 
> At 17 times, I'm confident to say it will last way past 5 months into the 6 month range and even more!
> 
> I would like everyone who made this setup to keep track of when they started their setup, bubbles per minute, what size paintball tank and see how long it last! I've been using 1bps, someone should try 2bps and 3bps base on their planted tank and see how long it last.


You can't measure CO2 like this.

If there's any liquid in the tank, it will read from 600psi (at about 40 degrees) to 1100 psi (at about 95 degrees). There's no way to tell how much is left in the tank by psi until all the liquid is gone, and the tank is practically empty. 


The only way to tell how much you're using is by weight. (or to just wait till the tank is empty and do the math).


----------



## Naekuh

Rich Conley said:


> You can't measure CO2 like this.
> 
> If there's any liquid in the tank, it will read from 600psi (at about 40 degrees) to 1100 psi (at about 95 degrees). There's no way to tell how much is left in the tank by psi until all the liquid is gone, and the tank is practically empty.
> 
> 
> The only way to tell how much you're using is by weight. (or to just wait till the tank is empty and do the math).


actually your 50% correct...

correct in no way on a standard bottle, but u can always buy this bottle which allows you to:

http://www.amazon.com/JT-IVT-Tank-Fill-Gauge/dp/B003FVT72I









"*An internal floating ball* and an external Fill Level Indicator Strip combine to reveal how much CO2 is truly left inside your bottle. Simply hold the tank vertically, swirl vigorously for a few seconds and a dark line will appear on the side of the bottle, letting you know your CO2 level quickly and easily."

and yes i know thats cheating.. :bounce:


----------



## Salmon McCloud

alexxa said:


> i think i hv to refill my bottle now
> its empty, i tried to press the pin on the paintball tank and no gas comes out


There is no way you can press the pin in unless the tank is completely empty. There is way too much pressure pushing it up

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk


----------



## alexxa

Salmon McCloud said:


> There is no way you can press the pin in unless the tank is completely empty. There is way too much pressure pushing it up
> 
> Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk


yes at that time i was able to press the pin and no gas came out. i went to refill my bottle after that.
but according to what you say, would the watts a41 shuts itself down due to a high pressure inside the bottle? Since my bottle's bubble rate is slowing down and i am sure there is no leak as i dumped the whole setup in water and checked.


----------



## Salmon McCloud

alexxa said:


> yes at that time i was able to press the pin and no gas came out. i went to refill my bottle after that.
> but according to what you say, would the watts a41 shuts itself down due to a high pressure inside the bottle? Since my bottle's bubble rate is slowing down and i am sure there is no leak as i dumped the whole setup in water and checked.


Do you have a check valve of some sort?


----------



## alexxa

Salmon McCloud said:


> Do you have a check valve of some sort?


yes i do


----------



## Salmon McCloud

alexxa said:


> yes i do


that could be why its slowing down. at least when I added a check valve after hooking everything up once before, it lowered the bubble rate slightly, but not too much.


----------



## alexxa

Salmon McCloud said:


> that could be why its slowing down. at least when I added a check valve after hooking everything up once before, it lowered the bubble rate slightly, but not too much.


ok thx, but did your bubble rate kept slowing down or stay constant after it lowered slightly?


----------



## Salmon McCloud

alexxa said:


> ok thx, but did your bubble rate kept slowing down or stay constant after it lowered slightly?


Its been constant, as far as I can tell at least.


----------



## SexMachineGuns

*High Pressure?*

How much pressure can the Watts A-41 in this guide handle? A standard paintball tank can have anywhere from 800 to 1500 PSI wouldn't it be kinda dangerous to use this needle valve if it can't handle the pressure?


----------



## pageerror404

I'm having a really hard time finding the ASA valve online. Can someone link a suitable one from amazon? I don't necessarily need the gauge.


----------



## orchidman

any idea where i can get a compression ring? i just bought a setup off of someone and the compression ring is bent and leaks because it wont seal


----------



## galabar

Sorry for the cross post, but folks need to be really careful with this type of setup:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/155384-my-co2-line-exploded.html
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/equipment/155597-ticking-time-bomb-your-paintball-asa.html


----------



## gatorsmashed

*Would this work?*

So I ordered option #3 from jaggedfury which includes an asa on/off, gauge, and needle valve...and then I got to thinking. I used to play a little paintball myself years ago and had a few regulators lying around. The thing is they are all male regulators that went in the paintball gun after the co2/nitrogen. I found the best regulator I have which is a Palmer's Stabilizer. I'm wondering if I could use this in conjunction with the ASA on/off valve. Here's what I was thinking:










I took the duckbill or co2/nitrogen thread input off the same gun and was thinking I could put the needle valve in its output slot and thread the regulator into it. 










The regulator would have a line coming into it running from the ASA on / off valve



















Again, I'm looking for opinions on if this would work fine or not. Any glaring problems etc. Thanks again for looking.


----------



## galabar

gatorsmashed said:


> So I ordered option #3 from jaggedfury which includes an asa on/off, gauge, and needle valve...
> Again, I'm looking for opinions on if this would work fine or not. Any glaring problems etc. Thanks again for looking.


This would be a very good idea. The ASA on/off setup is dangerous and should not be used by itself. I would definitely get that regulator on there before setting up your system.

I'm currently testing an AG1 Gen2 regulator and it seems to be working well (it holds output pressure to around 100 PSI).

How much does the Palmer Stabilizer lower the output pressure? Remember, if you get any blockage, the CO2 line will increase in PSI to the output pressure of your regulator (or ASA on/off valve if you don't have a regulator). The CO2 line will not handle 800 psi and will explode before it reaches that pressure.


----------



## gatorsmashed

I just checked Palmer's Pursuit's website and according to this link http://palmer-pursuit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=page&id=1&chapter=2&zenid=7kc20glo8fimkkj7ijecfn51f7 the Stabilizer is fully adjustable from 0-800 psi. Also states that the regulator functions to block liquid co2.


----------



## galabar

gatorsmashed said:


> I just checked Palmer's Pursuit's website and according to this link http://palmer-pursuit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=page&id=1&chapter=2&zenid=7kc20glo8fimkkj7ijecfn51f7 the Stabilizer is fully adjustable from 0-800 psi. Also states that the regulator functions to block liquid co2.


Yes, the Palmer stabilizer looks like a really good option. It should definitely be better than the cheaper AG1 Gen2 regulator that I am trying out (although, that regulator looks pretty solid). Of course, it is more expensive (but you already have one).

Take a look here:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/equipment/140052-beer-keg-stabilizer-paintball-co2-system.html


----------



## alexxa

It is leaking between the cap of the asa adaptor, what should i do?
its pretty weird. The bubble rate stays constant for the day 1bps, but everytime it slows down at night to 1bubble per 1.7second~
and i readjust it everynight.


----------



## galabar

alexxa said:


> It is leaking between the cap of the asa adaptor, what should i do?
> its pretty weird. The bubble rate stays constant for the day 1bps, but everytime it slows down at night to 1bubble per 1.7second~
> and i readjust it everynight.


The first thing to do is put a regulator on that thing before you have an explosion.

Also, a regulator will help you better maintain your bubble count.

Once you have a regulator, you can get a simple ASA valve without on/off to go on top of the regulator and attach to the needle valve.


----------



## alexxa

galabar said:


> The first thing to do is put a regulator on that thing before you have an explosion.
> 
> Also, a regulator will help you better maintain your bubble count.
> 
> Once you have a regulator, you can get a simple ASA valve without on/off to go on top of the regulator and attach to the needle valve.


ok thx, but is it possible to fix the leak on the asa adaptor?
and also wt regulator do you recommend?


----------



## alexxa

alexxa said:


> ok thx, but is it possible to fix the leak on the asa adaptor?
> and also wt regulator do you recommend?


any cheap regulator for a paintball setup?


----------



## galabar

alexxa said:


> ok thx, but is it possible to fix the leak on the asa adaptor?
> and also wt regulator do you recommend?


I'm not sure about fixing the leak. However, I'm currently trying this, with good results:

http://www.armedpaintball.com/paint...s-gauges/87-armed-ag1-gen2-air-regulator.html

Unfortunately, the price jumped from $50 to $75. I've also got this on order:

[Ebay Link Removed]

(search for "NEW PAINTBALL CO2 & COMPRESS AIR REGULATOR 0-150PSI" on Ebay, item #170691170358)

I'm going to see how well it compares with the more expensive, "name brand" version. I'm also going to stack them and test to see if this will give a cheap solution to EOTD.

Whatever you do, do not continue to use an unregulated paintball cylinder. Take a look here:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/155384-my-co2-line-exploded.html

The ASA on/off solution is not safe and should not be used by anyone. Folks selling these on this site should realize what kind of liability they are bringing to themselves.


----------



## Naekuh

alexxa said:


> ok thx, but is it possible to fix the leak on the asa adaptor?
> and also wt regulator do you recommend?


it might be cheaper just to buy a new asa adapter and rebuild it, if you had no problems using a system like that. 

However it could be the Orings in your ASA adapter which cracked from probably liquid CO2. 

did you try taking it completely apart and inspecting the valve directly? If i recall once u take it appart, there's a brass piece inside with 2 orings.. im guessing they cracked from liquid CO2 and freezing.


----------



## sayurasem

It leaks because the depress pin "o" rings are busted. Or just because its cheap asa valve. I bought the 3 dollars one.... they failed.

buy this item from eBay 270693415335. 13 Bucks, come with psi gauge, + free shipping. Seller name is mastersconi. I've been using this for 3 months, no problem at all.


----------



## galabar

sayurasem said:


> It leaks because the depress pin "o" rings are busted. Or just because its cheap asa valve. I bought the 3 dollars one.... they failed.
> 
> buy this item from eBay 270693415335. 13 Bucks, come with psi gauge, + free shipping. Seller name is mastersconi. I've been using this for 3 months, no problem at all.


I guess you missed the explode part:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/155384-my-co2-line-exploded.html


----------



## sayurasem

galabar said:


> I guess you missed the explode part:
> 
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/155384-my-co2-line-exploded.html



You missed that you hijacked the thread.


----------



## mach_six

I think the problem was the clogged atomizer diffuser for the problem.

You'd probably have to use something that produces bigger bubbles and some way to diffuse by powerhead or inline in the tubing.


----------



## alexxa

Naekuh said:


> it might be cheaper just to buy a new asa adapter and rebuild it, if you had no problems using a system like that.
> 
> However it could be the Orings in your ASA adapter which cracked from probably liquid CO2.
> 
> did you try taking it completely apart and inspecting the valve directly? If i recall once u take it appart, there's a brass piece inside with 2 orings.. im guessing they cracked from liquid CO2 and freezing.


ok thx i will open it later.
This is actually a new asa adaptor that i got 3weeks ago


----------



## alexxa

sayurasem said:


> It leaks because the depress pin "o" rings are busted. Or just because its cheap asa valve. I bought the 3 dollars one.... they failed.
> 
> buy this item from eBay 270693415335. 13 Bucks, come with psi gauge, + free shipping. Seller name is mastersconi. I've been using this for 3 months, no problem at all.











Item number:	370563368554
this is the one that i bought.


----------



## alexxa

is the burst valve normal? it kinda pop out









and how to i open this asa adaptor to change the oring inside? i tried to open it but it is locked at the top. The brand is Ninja paintball.
http://www.tippmannpros.com/ninja-paintball-universal-fill-adapter-black.html


----------



## sayurasem

alexxa said:


> is the burst valve normal? it kinda pop out
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and how to i open this asa adaptor to change the oring inside? i tried to open it but it is locked at the top. The brand is Ninja paintball.
> http://www.tippmannpros.com/ninja-paintball-universal-fill-adapter-black.html



Oww. I don't think thats normal... the threads of the burst pin are not supposed to show.

Btw yes thats the exact asa valve I bought (failed). 3 bucks?
you cant open the knob out. The only way to take the depress pin out is by tweezer.

Well you have 2 options.
1. Change your depress "o" rings, dip the pin on thick grease and pop it back in the valve, and hope the thick grease will block the leak.

2. spend extra 13 bucks for brand new valve I mentioned. I think its totally worth it, because it has psi gauge to tell you when to refill your tank.

Up to you, I got tired of re-greasing my asa valve (grease hardened by co2) every time I refill tank. So I bought the 13 dollars asa valve and no problem until now.


----------



## alexxa

the black one i bought for $12 and the silver one is $11 on ebay.
you got the black one right?
how do i use a tweezer to remove the depress pin on the black asa adaptor?
the silver one is easy to remove.
should i stop using the paintball tank as the burst valve show up?


----------



## Naekuh

yea if the burst valve came out it means something was wrong. The burst valve is a safety.. if you notice something is wrong with the saftey it means danger is coming. 

id at the very least take it a reputable paintball store and have them check it out.

I am still guessing.. u probably got liquid co2 inside the ASA valve, which caused havok with the seals.


----------



## galabar

sayurasem said:


> You missed that you hijacked the thread.


No, I simple provided some additional information about this setup. The whole thread is about paintball CO2. There is a way to do this safely (with a regulator). We've already seen a catastrophic accident with the unregulated approach. It would be great if that was the only, non fatal, accident we see here.


----------



## Naekuh

galabar said:


> No, I simple provided some additional information about this setup. The whole thread is about paintball CO2. There is a way to do this safely (with a regulator). We've already seen a catastrophic accident with the unregulated approach. It would be great if that was the only, non fatal, accident we see here.


as much as i agree with you, however your not really helping the op out.

instead your giving him more grief.

The op had a working setup until it leaked.
So simple and most effective solution as they say, fix the weakest link, and if its not broken then dont fix it. 

Lets just focus at whats important.. the OP has no more CO2, his plants in 3 days with the light he has will be covered with algae.
Lets help him fix that so he can avoid a algae explosion from the lack of CO2.

And then the OP can worry about a regulator and what not, later on. roud:


also i had something simular happen to me in that other thread Gal.. my diffuser was clogged and pressure built up, and the line bursted... however the line flew right off the ceremic disk and then was bleeding bubbles into the system.... it didnt rupture the tubing, or crack my glass... 

The tubing causing so much pressure to snap off like that and cracking the glass id say is a rare situation.


----------



## galabar

Naekuh said:


> as much as i agree with you, however your not really helping the op out.
> 
> instead your giving him more grief.
> 
> The op had a working setup until it leaked.
> So simple and most effective solution as they say, fix the weakest link, and if its not broken then dont fix it.
> 
> Lets just focus at whats important.. the OP has no more CO2, his plants in 3 days with the light he has will be covered with algae.
> Lets help him fix that so he can avoid a algae explosion from the lack of CO2.
> 
> And then the OP can worry about a regulator and what not, later on. roud:


I'm of the opposite opinion. Algae is a lot safer than plugging this setup back in. I'm not giving him grief. I'm trying to save his fingers, or eyes, or (Ok, I'm being slightly hyperbolic here), his life.

Yes, his plants have it rough right now. However, they are just plants. He is a human being and he shouldn't be putting himself in danger like this.

I have suggested locations for him to purchase equipment that would make his setup safe. For as little as about $30 shipped, he can get a regulator for this setup.

There is no reason to reattach this bomb in order to save some plants from a little algae.


----------



## MoeBetta

galabar said:


> I'm not sure about fixing the leak. However, I'm currently trying this, with good results:
> 
> http://www.armedpaintball.com/paint...s-gauges/87-armed-ag1-gen2-air-regulator.html
> 
> Unfortunately, the price jumped from $50 to $75. I've also got this on order:
> 
> [Ebay Link Removed]
> 
> (search for "NEW PAINTBALL CO2 & COMPRESS AIR REGULATOR 0-150PSI" on Ebay, item #170691170358)
> 
> I'm going to see how well it compares with the more expensive, "name brand" version. I'm also going to stack them and test to see if this will give a cheap solution to EOTD.
> 
> Whatever you do, do not continue to use an unregulated paintball cylinder. Take a look here:
> 
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/155384-my-co2-line-exploded.html
> 
> The ASA on/off solution is not safe and should not be used by anyone. Folks selling these on this site should realize what kind of liability they are bringing to themselves.


I'm just saying.... My dual stage reg setup cost all of $200. At what point does saving money end up costing more while yielding less?


----------



## galabar

MoeBetta said:


> I'm just saying.... My dual stage reg setup cost all of $200. At what point does saving money end up costing more while yielding less?


I would agree with you here. The paintball setup is for folks with limited space. If you are putting this in the stand of a 10 gallon tank, then a 10 lb CO2 cylinder with husky dual stage Victor regulator is not going to fit.

I don't think the paintball route, done safely, will save you money. Indeed, at the moment, you would have to spend about $17 (bottle), $150 (2 x single stage regulator), plus after body kit to get a safe paintball setup with no chance of EOTD. That isn't going to save you money over a standard CO2 setup. It is only going to save you space.

Of course, it is often the case that smaller solutions are more expensive. Laptops or more expensive than the equivalent desktop, and tablets are more expensive then the equivalent laptop (don't forget cell phones).

That may be why folks are interested in this ASA on/off "solution." It seems like a cheap way to get into CO2 injection. My advice would be save up and get something more functional and much safer.


----------



## alexxa

when the burst disc explodes, does it shoots out like a bullet or it just falls off?


----------



## galabar

alexxa said:


> when the burst disc explodes, does it shoots out like a bullet or it just falls off?


The burst disk is permanently attached to the housing. It won't shoot out or fall off.


----------



## alexxa

i am interested in getting the "NEW PAINTBALL CO2 & COMPRESS AIR REGULATOR 0-150PSI" on ebay, will this give me a steady bubble rate if used with watts a41 needle valve?


----------



## galabar

alexxa said:


> i am interested in getting the "NEW PAINTBALL CO2 & COMPRESS AIR REGULATOR 0-150PSI" on ebay, will this give me a steady bubble rate if used with watts a41 needle valve?


I've got this on order, but it will be a while before I get it (ships from China). I won't be using it directly (I'll be placing it on top of the AG1 Gen2 regulator), so I can't say for sure.

However, if you have a system with a regulator that holds a constant pressure, it should not matter which needle valve you are using. As long as the needle valve does not move (which, I'm assuming, most don't), you should get a steady flow from a good regulator. Of course, a better needle valve will be easier to adjust, initially.

Another option is to go to a paintball shop and describe to them what you are trying to do (CO2 regulator on a paintball cylinder). They might be able to set you up with something.

I can say that the AG1 Gen2 works well and holds a steady pressure and steady bubble rate with the Swagelok SS-OVM2 (about $21 including shipping from Ebay) needle valve that I'm using.

Unfortunately, it is hard to tell with the AG1 Gen2 just what the output pressure is. There are 100, 200, 300, 400, etc. PSI markings, but the 100 psi marking is close to the 0 marking, and the needle, at rest, is somewhere between 0 and 100. I definitely want to keep it under 100 psi, so I'm trying to be just a bit below the 100 psi marking.

With the new regulator coming in (that you mentioned), the markings go from 0 - 300. So, I can crank the AG1 Gen2 up to maybe 400 psi, and adjust the new regulator to 50 psi.

Once I've got this set up, I'll try a pressure increase on the primary regulator (AG1 Gen2) and see if the output pressure holds steady or increases (simulated EOTD).


----------



## RoyalFizbin

galabar said:


> I've got this on order, but it will be a while before I get it (ships from China).


I bought one and it didn't work. It was probably defective from the start. I tried it between the asa and tank. Mine didn't let any air past it at all no matter how much i turned the knob. The gauge didn't register any pressure at all. Then I removed it and cranked the knob in and out a few times and tried again. This time the co2 was able to flow and it hammered the gauge hard. The gauge is now busted. I set the thing aside and purchased a real regulator instead and hooked it up to the asa using brass fittings. I say buy yourself a cheap regulator of e bay, remove the input stem and connect to paint ball tank via asa. You can get some cheap used regulators on eeebay Some might be single stage but I figure single stage is better than no stage.


----------



## galabar

RoyalFizbin said:


> I bought one and it didn't work. It was probably defective from the start. I tried it between the asa and tank. Mine didn't let any air past it at all no matter how much i turned the knob. The gauge didn't register any pressure at all. Then I removed it and cranked the knob in and out a few times and tried again. This time the co2 was able to flow and it hammered the gauge hard. The gauge is now busted. I set the thing aside and purchased a real regulator instead and hooked it up to the asa using brass fittings. I say buy yourself a cheap regulator of e bay, remove the input stem and connect to paint ball tank via asa. You can get some cheap used regulators on eeebay Some might be single stage but I figure single stage is better than no stage.


Thanks for the replay. I still haven't gotten this yet. The RAP4 AG1 Gen2 that I have is working well, and the Ebay one looked almost exactly like it. I was thinking that they both were made in China so that should be the same, but I guess you get what you pay for.


----------



## RoyalFizbin

Hey galabar keep us updated on that paintball regulator. I'd like to know how well it works. 

Mine 









Cheaper than a paintball regulator, might also be cheaper than using a cga320 to paintball adapter if you had to buy a cga320 nipple and nut for the regulator. Many regulators on Ebay are not cga320 to begin with.


----------



## alexxa

bruinhd said:


> To all the naysayers that have been telling us "DIY Paintball CO2 is STUPID and COSTLY", may I present to you...
> 
> $16 20 oz paintball tank (Amazon)
> $30 for Aquatek Paintball CO2 adapter + Myth CO2 regulator (Ebay)
> 
> = $46 DIY Paintball setup. And it looks hella sexy on a nano if I must say...


Hi, i am interesting in getting your regulator. Could you please pm me the link of it? Thank you!


----------



## SpOOnY

bruinhd said:


> To all the naysayers that have been telling us "DIY Paintball CO2 is STUPID and COSTLY", may I present to you...
> 
> $16 20 oz paintball tank (Amazon)
> $30 for Aquatek Paintball CO2 adapter + Myth CO2 regulator (Ebay)
> 
> = $46 DIY Paintball setup. And it looks hella sexy on a nano if I must say...





alexxa said:


> Hi, i am interesting in getting your regulator. Could you please pm me the link of it? Thank you!


That set up looks very solid and neat, very slick!

Let me know if he PMs you on where to buy the regulator or even the adapter.

We can maybe share the shipping cost, I'm in Markham, Ontario, Canada


----------



## galabar

Is that Myth CO2 regulator actually a regulator? Has anyone looked inside it?


----------



## charles101

Hi everyone. may i say that this is a very good and relativley cheap option, thanks for sharing! 
My question is has anyone from the UK built this system? if so where did you get the parts from? any help will be greatly appreciated.


----------



## SpOOnY

i need help guys



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

is that right? why is there a gold tube


----------



## SpOOnY

Uploaded with ImageShack.us


----------



## darkxrose

How can you tell when the needle valve is on or off? (the gold thing in the post above)
When the handle is twisted to align with the threads is it on or off? What about when the handle makes a 90 degree angle with the threads?


----------



## pglenn

a simple question which suprisingly I havent found the answer to. how/where do I install the o-ring to the ASA valve? I've assumed I unscrew the top "lid" from the ASA and the o-ring goes between it and the valve body but nowhere is it confirmed or explained, much less photos showing install


----------



## Jaggedfury

darkxrose said:


> How can you tell when the needle valve is on or off? (the gold thing in the post above)
> When the handle is twisted to align with the threads is it on or off? What about when the handle makes a 90 degree angle with the threads?


Not every Needle Valve will thread in a exact same position to any ASA On/Off Valve. Alot of factors depends on how tight you tighten it along with how many rounds of Teflon tape you add around the thread. Going by angle degree will not help you. Tighten it down with a crescent wrench to where it doesn't leak and it'll be enough at that position. Therefore it will not be in a certain exact position as any other setup that one might have.

Needle valve is simple, fully clockwise is closed. Slight counter clockwise is open. 



pglenn said:


> a simple question which suprisingly I havent found the answer to. how/where do I install the o-ring to the ASA valve? I've assumed I unscrew the top "lid" from the ASA and the o-ring goes between it and the valve body but nowhere is it confirmed or explained, much less photos showing install


----------



## loveflying

hi,

what size o rings do i need to replace with for the image up top? the one for the brass pin?

and where can i get them?


----------



## josolanes

Just ordered my supplies to follow this guide!


----------



## kjnguy3nn

how many bps would I need to run for a 125g tank? I think I might make my DIY c02 with a pb. tank


----------



## perezdr

*It's great*

I have to say that this works great.

I just finish assemblying mine, and it is working very good. I'm doing 2bps on a 20oz tank, but I'm planning to go a little bit lower on the bps count trying to get more time out of the tank's CO2.

I can't thank you enough for sharing this!


----------



## Mike Hawk

you sir, i love you.


----------



## josolanes

I'm going to be changing to a regulator soon. The needle valve works but seems to be pretty unreliable to me. Maybe I have a leak but I used threading tape and a wrench to secure everything very well so I don't believe that's it. The bps begins to drop after running very steady for about 6 hours or so at a time


----------



## galabar

josolanes said:


> I'm going to be changing to a regulator soon. The needle valve works but seems to be pretty unreliable to me. Maybe I have a leak but I used threading tape and a wrench to secure everything very well so I don't believe that's it. The bps begins to drop after running very steady for about 6 hours or so at a time


Good idea. Besides being extraordinarily dangerous, this setup is completely dependent on ambient temperature for maintaining a steady bubble count. As the pressure in the CO2 cylinder rises and falls with the temperature in your room, so will the bubble output.

As a side note, those Watts needle valves are rated only to 400 psi, so be careful!


----------



## josolanes

galabar said:


> Good idea. Besides being extraordinarily dangerous, this setup is completely dependent on ambient temperature for maintaining a steady bubble count. As the pressure in the CO2 cylinder rises and falls with the temperature in your room, so will the bubble output.
> 
> As a side note, those Watts needle valves are rated only to 400 psi, so be careful!


Wow!! My tank is filled to 1100psi! 

And that makes sense then, with the speed/pressure changing based on temperature. I'll be picking up a regulator very soon then


----------



## galabar

josolanes said:


> Wow!! My tank is filled to 1100psi!
> 
> And that makes sense then, with the speed/pressure changing based on temperature. I'll be picking up a regulator very soon then


You can get a regulator to go with your paintball CO2 system. A good example would be Ebay #360436125542. This Veriflo IR401 regulator is nice because it is somewhat compact and has a good end-of-tank behavior. You can combine it with this:

http://palmer-pursuit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=140_40&products_id=964

and you are good to go (the adapter screws into one of the NPT inlets of the regulator). You could also get a Fabco NV-55-18 needle valve to round things out.

p.s. The best part is that you'll probably never blow your fingers off with an actual regulator.


----------



## josolanes

galabar said:


> You can get a regulator to go with your paintball CO2 system. A good example would be Ebay #360436125542. This Veriflo IR401 regulator is nice because it is somewhat compact and has a good end-of-tank behavior. You can combine it with this:
> 
> http://palmer-pursuit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=140_40&products_id=964
> 
> and you are good to go (the adapter screws into one of the NPT inlets of the regulator). You could also get a Fabco NV-55-18 needle valve to round things out.
> 
> p.s. The best part is that you'll probably never blow your fingers off with an actual regulator.


lol thanks galabar. Ya I had a bit of a scare that sobered me up to this when I first put everything together. I turned the needle valve (figuring that it took quite a turn to go full tilt) and blew the line off the tank (which was attached with a compression fitting and wrench). Now I make super-fine adjustments with the needle valve and have a decent control over it but still want something better


----------



## galabar

josolanes said:


> lol thanks galabar. Ya I had a bit of a scare that sobered me up to this when I first put everything together. I turned the needle valve (figuring that it took quite a turn to go full tilt) and blew the line off the tank (which was attached with a compression fitting and wrench). Now I make super-fine adjustments with the needle valve and have a decent control over it but still want something better


Yeah, I'm hearing more and more about this. It seems that many people are too embarrassed to share their mishaps with this setup. They feel that it is somehow their fault and they aren't doing something right. However, the fault lies in the system itself. The failure cases are extreme and the user just can't provide for all of them.

Let me say this to you -- it wasn't your fault. With a safe system, you would not have been able to push enough pressure through your tubing to have it tear from a compression nut and explode. The fault is with the system.

For anyone else that has had similar issues and hasn't spoken up, this is the thread to do it in.


----------



## josolanes

Ya I somewhat wish the original post had a mention of a regulator or a recommendation. I mean, this setup works if you're VERY careful with it but I don't trust not using a regulator now

I was thinking about the parts priced out and found a regulator for $68: http://www.aquariumguys.com/2-paint...?gdftrk=gdfV2226_a_7c1209_a_7c7276_a_7c239900

The needle valve, gauge, and ASA on/off I got all together ended up costing around $50 before shipping. Had I known about the $68 regulator at the time or knew they're a better route, I would have just done that in the first place. I had no experience with anything like this though so thought the needle valve was the way to go thinking it regulated it well enough. Ah well, you live and learn right?


----------



## galabar

josolanes said:


> Ya I somewhat wish the original post had a mention of a regulator or a recommendation. I mean, this setup works if you're VERY careful with it but I don't trust not using a regulator now
> 
> I was thinking about the parts priced out and found a regulator for $68: http://www.aquariumguys.com/2-paint...?gdftrk=gdfV2226_a_7c1209_a_7c7276_a_7c239900
> 
> The needle valve, gauge, and ASA on/off I got all together ended up costing around $50 before shipping. Had I known about the $68 regulator at the time or knew they're a better route, I would have just done that in the first place. I had no experience with anything like this though so thought the needle valve was the way to go thinking it regulated it well enough. Ah well, you live and learn right?


Yes, I can remember that first "Aha" moment when I realized that, because there was no regulator, the pressure in the CO2 tubing would climb to equilibrium with the tank. Then I started thinking about all the uncontrollable ways that the CO2 tubing could become blocked. Finally, I thought about what happens when 800 psi is applied to that situation.

Just not worth it.


----------



## pglenn

galabar said:


> You can get a regulator to go with your paintball CO2 system. A good example would be Ebay #360436125542. This Veriflo IR401 regulator is nice because it is somewhat compact and has a good end-of-tank behavior. You can combine it with this:
> 
> http://palmer-pursuit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=140_40&products_id=964
> 
> and you are good to go (the adapter screws into one of the NPT inlets of the regulator). You could also get a Fabco NV-55-18 needle valve to round things out.
> 
> p.s. The best part is that you'll probably never blow your fingers off with an actual regulator.


I like that ebay regulator. in fact I just bought both they had for $25 each  figure I can build both up with parts I have just laying around, then sell one and use one


----------



## galabar

pglenn said:


> I like that ebay regulator. in fact I just bought both they had for $25 each  figure I can build both up with parts I have just laying around, then sell one and use one


Cool. Those Veriflo IR400 regulators are nice. The input port is on the bottom, so you get a very well balanced and compact solution (if you use the Palmer Pursuit or equivalent part that I mentioned). They also have a Decaying Inlet Characteristic of 0.5 psi / 100 psi, which pretty much means that you don't have to worry about end-of-tank dump (especially if you run that regulator at 60 psi working pressure).

Congrats! :thumbsup:


----------



## galabar

Oh, by the way, get some Brasso at Home Depot. You'll be amazed at how well those regulators clean up.


----------



## jack25

Quick question, if you are using the Veriflo IR401 regulator why would you need the palmer pursuits regulator? Doesn't the Veriflo cut your tank pressure already?


----------



## galabar

jack25 said:


> Quick question, if you are using the Veriflo IR401 regulator why would you need the palmer pursuits regulator? Doesn't the Veriflo cut your tank pressure already?


This is just an adapter that allows you to screw your regulator directly to your paintball CO2 cylinder:

http://palmer-pursuit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=140_40&products_id=964

So, you have: paintball CO2 cylinder -> Palmer adapter -> Veriflo regulator.

The alternative it to put a standard CGA320 connection on the Veriflo, then use this adapter:

http://greenleafaquariums.com/co2-cylinders/co2-regulator-paintball-adapter.html

However, the second option requires more parts and is not as compact.

Here is what the compact solution looks like (with an adapter like the Palmer):










Here is an example with the CGA320 + different adapter:










You can see that the first solution is more compact and has less parts.


----------



## FlyingHellFish

^ Ooooohhhh, hahah picture explains it so much better.


What brassco thing at home depot were you talking about?


----------



## galabar

FlyingHellFish said:


> ^ Ooooohhhh, hahah picture explains it so much better.
> 
> 
> What brassco thing at home depot were you talking about?


http://www.walmart.com/ip/BRASSO/14862623


----------



## jack25

Thanks for the pics. ^^^

I can't find any cheap Veriflo IR401 regulators on ebay but there are beer keg regulators for $30 to $40 on amazon. Will they work? I think their input pressure is 3000 psi and they output around 30 psi and they have the over pressure protection at 60 psi.


----------



## galabar

jack25 said:


> Thanks for the pics. ^^^
> 
> I can't find any cheap Veriflo IR401 regulators on ebay but there are beer keg regulators for $30 to $40 on amazon. Will they work? I think their input pressure is 3000 psi and they output around 30 psi and they have the over pressure protection at 60 psi.


Any regulator is better than no regulator. However, and this is just my opinion, I would stick with a regulator that has a known Decaying Inlet Characteristic. That way, you know you are safe from the "End Of Tank Dump" issue.

Another regulator to look at is the Victor SR 250, which matches the Veriflo 400 series in this characteristic.

I would suggest browsing for regulators on Ebay and looking up the specs for an regulator you find.


----------



## elwray

Is anyone having trouble finding paintball places that will fill CO2? I was planning on putting together a CO2 system as outlined by the OP since it would be nice and compact. I stopped by a paintball supply store, and was able to buy a used on/off for $5 but they now use compressed air instead of CO2!

I live within a _mile _of 3 different paintball shops/fields and _all_ of them use compressed air now! ... figures! I'm in central NJ, so I'm not sure if this is the case elsewhere.

I was trying to avoid buying a larger tank for the sake of space, and that the nearest beverage/welding supply is quite far from me to get it filled. But it looks like I may end up having to go this route after all. 

If I do end up using a "real" sized CO2 tank (will probably get a 5#), is there any reason I wouldn't be able to just put the same kind of needle valve "downstream" of a standard regulator?

Alternatively, if I get a double gauge primary regulator (like for a kegerator - first gauge gives bottle pressure, the second "output" pressure is user set), do you think I could use that to get the flow low enough for 2-4 bps, or will I still need the needle valve?

If I can't find a local place to fill a paintball tank, I have no use for the on/off. If this ends up being the case, I'll offer it up free for the cost of shipping in the swap forum. :smile:


----------



## galabar

elwray said:


> Is anyone having trouble finding paintball places that will fill CO2? I was planning on putting together a CO2 system as outlined by the OP since it would be nice and compact. I stopped by a paintball supply store, and was able to buy a used on/off for $5 but they now use compressed air instead of CO2!
> 
> I live within a _mile _of 3 different paintball shops/fields and _all_ of them use compressed air now! ... figures! I'm in central NJ, so I'm not sure if this is the case elsewhere.
> 
> I was trying to avoid buying a larger tank for the sake of space, and that the nearest beverage/welding supply is quite far from me to get it filled. But it looks like I may end up having to go this route after all.
> 
> If I do end up using a "real" sized CO2 tank (will probably get a 5#), is there any reason I wouldn't be able to just put the same kind of needle valve "downstream" of a standard regulator?
> 
> Alternatively, if I get a double gauge primary regulator (like for a kegerator - first gauge gives bottle pressure, the second "output" pressure is user set), do you think I could use that to get the flow low enough for 2-4 bps, or will I still need the needle valve?
> 
> If I can't find a local place to fill a paintball tank, I have no use for the on/off. If this ends up being the case, I'll offer it up free for the cost of shipping in the swap forum. :smile:


Go to Sports Authority. They will refill your paintball CO2 cylinder.

As for getting the low bubble count that we need, it isn't the regulator that does that. Rather, it is the needle valve. The regulator is used to step down the pressure of the CO2 cylinder to somethine "safe," like 60 psi. You then use the needle valve to restrict flow to the bubbles that you are looking for.

A needle valve like the Fabco NV-55-18 is a good, not too expensive, choice for this.


----------



## elwray

galabar said:


> Go to Sports Authority. They will refill your paintball CO2 cylinder.
> 
> As for getting the low bubble count that we need, it isn't the regulator that does that. Rather, it is the needle valve. The regulator is used to step down the pressure of the CO2 cylinder to somethine "safe," like 60 psi. You then use the needle valve to restrict flow to the bubbles that you are looking for.
> 
> A needle valve like the Fabco NV-55-18 is a good, not too expensive, choice for this.


I'll give Sports Authority a shot! That is certainly much more conveniently located.

Thanks for the info about the needle valve.


----------



## quocviet114

Can any one show me where do they sell the "ASA on off valve" and the "Gauge" please! I'm looking on the internet but I can't find it! Please help!


----------



## pglenn

ebay, or just about any paintball store


----------



## hbosman

galabar said:


> Any regulator is better than no regulator. However, and this is just my opinion, I would stick with a regulator that has a known Decaying Inlet Characteristic. That way, you know you are safe from the "End Of Tank Dump" issue.
> 
> Another regulator to look at is the Victor SR 250, which matches the Veriflo 400 series in this characteristic.
> 
> I would suggest browsing for regulators on Ebay and looking up the specs for an regulator you find.


Good choices. you can run a dual stage regulator on a paintball bottle. Sometimes a Dual stage can be had for the price of a SR 250. I got 2 VTS 250s for $50.00 a few years ago, on ~bay of course. 

Here is a picture of one of them. I keep the second as a spare.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/h_bosman/4379697140/


----------



## galabar

hbosman said:


> Good choices. you can run a dual stage regulator on a paintball bottle. Sometimes a Dual stage can be had for the price of a SR 250. I got 2 VTS 250s for $50.00 a few years ago, on ~bay of course.
> 
> Here is a picture of one of them. I keep the second as a spare.
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/h_bosman/4379697140/


Cool, but you could make that a good deal shorter and significantly lower the center of gravity with one of these:

http://palmer-pursuit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=140_40&products_id=964

p.s. I want a shot of that back of that regulator to prove its a VTS.


----------



## elwray

None of the photos show it for some reason, but I'm assuming all of these regulator adapters have the pin that "opens" the tank, right? I'm sure they do, otherwise it'd be useless ... but I have yet to see a photo showing the "business end" of one of these!


----------



## galabar

elwray said:


> None of the photos show it for some reason, but I'm assuming all of these regulator adapters have the pin that "opens" the tank, right? I'm sure they do, otherwise it'd be useless ... but I have yet to see a photo showing the "business end" of one of these!


Yes, the portion of those adapters that connect to the paintball CO2 cylinder have a pin.


----------



## jack25

What do you guys think of this regulator on Ebay (item 110837133115). I looked at the swagelok website and the max inlet pressure is 3600 psi and the outlet ranges from 0-10psig to 0-500 psi.



http://www.swagelok.com/downloads/WebCatalogs/EN/MS-02-230.pdf


----------



## pglenn

$21.32 shipping? that will easily fit in a medium-flat-rate box and ship for $11.35


----------



## In.a.Box

if using reg on a paintball tank make sure to order some O-ring for the co2 tank.

I ran about 5 o-ring doing test. What suck about using paintball co2 tank is there no On/Off on the tank. you will lose co2 when turning the reg onto the tank. Don't even try to hand tight, wont work. lol 

I lost about half a 20oz taken the reg off the tank and back onto the tank for leak testing. 

i got the blue adapter for one day only and that thing look 10 yr old already. lol


----------



## SBPyro

In.a.Box said:


> if using reg on a paintball tank make sure to order some O-ring for the co2 tank.
> 
> I ran about 5 o-ring doing test. What suck about using paintball co2 tank is there no On/Off on the tank. you will lose co2 when turning the reg onto the tank. Don't even try to hand tight, wont work. lol
> 
> I lost about half a 20oz taken the reg off the tank and back onto the tank for leak testing.
> 
> i got the blue adapter for one day only and that thing look 10 yr old already. lol


Sounds like the pin for the bottle adapter is too long.
I've had bad paintball asa do that to me in the past.


----------



## galabar

In.a.Box said:


> if using reg on a paintball tank make sure to order some O-ring for the co2 tank.
> 
> I ran about 5 o-ring doing test. What suck about using paintball co2 tank is there no On/Off on the tank. you will lose co2 when turning the reg onto the tank. Don't even try to hand tight, wont work. lol
> 
> I lost about half a 20oz taken the reg off the tank and back onto the tank for leak testing.
> 
> i got the blue adapter for one day only and that thing look 10 yr old already. lol


I hand tighten CO2 regulators on to paintball cylinders all the time with no CO2 loss. I also remove then all the time with nothing but the slightest "puff" of CO2 leaking out.


----------



## wootlaws

bruinhd said:


> To all the naysayers that have been telling us "DIY Paintball CO2 is STUPID and COSTLY", may I present to you...
> 
> $16 20 oz paintball tank (Amazon)
> $30 for Aquatek Paintball CO2 adapter + Myth CO2 regulator (Ebay)
> 
> = $46 DIY Paintball setup. And it looks hella sexy on a nano if I must say...


anyone know how to set this up like the image? i'm looking to upgrade from my yeast diy and have no idea how to do this.


----------



## galabar

wootlaws said:


> anyone know how to set this up like the image? i'm looking to upgrade from my yeast diy and have no idea how to do this.


I would suggest going with a full regulator like this (this is a picture of a paintball CO2 cylinder, adapter, and standard regulator):

http://www.homebrewing.org/The-Adapter-CO2-regulator-to-Paintball-Tank-Adapter_p_1122.html


----------



## wootlaws

galabar said:


> I would suggest going with a full regulator like this (this is a picture of a paintball CO2 cylinder, adapter, and standard regulator):
> 
> http://www.homebrewing.org/The-Adapter-CO2-regulator-to-Paintball-Tank-Adapter_p_1122.html


that's a really good price for $80 total! thx a lot! i assume all i need with that setup is just the co2 hose line i can pick up at home depot?


----------



## galabar

wootlaws said:


> that's a really good price for $80 total! thx a lot! i assume all i need with that setup is just the co2 hose line i can pick up at home depot?


You will still need a needle valve. I would suggest the following:

http://store.fabco-air.com/proddetail.php?prod=NV-55-18

This will be much better than what you get in those cheaper all-in-one products. You'll also need a brass hose barb (1/8" NPT x 5/16" ID):










and a male-to-male nipple (1/8" NPT male x 1/8" NPT male):










The hose barb goes on the output of the needle valve and the male-to-male nipple goes between the neede valve and the regulator (you can remove the valve that is currently on the regulator).

p.s. Here is a good place to get fittings if you can't find them at Lowes, Home Depot, Ace Hardware, or a local plumbing supply shop:

http://www.fastenal.com/web/search/...ittings"|~ ~|categoryl4:"603399 Connectors"|~


----------



## Msouza91

Anyone know how to fix these ASA's? Mines apparently [censored][censored][censored][censored] the bed when I was changing co2 tanks. The inside of the regulator has like a small metal cylinder open and closing the holes inside. 

Anyone know how to fix those if they come completely out?


----------



## MN Aquatics

Hey everyone, I'm new to these forums, but I was wondering why they say not to use the mini asa on/off valves? and does it work to use a T joint brass tubing to split it into 2 different tanks? Any help would be appreciated, thanks


----------



## BS87

Anyone ever try this with the little disposable puncture cartridges before? Not sure if it would be more/less cost effective, just curious.


----------



## KenRC51

Can I buy this setup and then buy the needle valve? What size of a needle valve should I look for at home depot or lowes?

http://www.amazon.com/Guerrilla-Air...3ZIE/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1334690025&sr=8-4


----------



## In.a.Box

KenRC51 said:


> Can I buy this setup and then buy the needle valve? What size of a needle valve should I look for at home depot or lowes?
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Guerrilla-Air...3ZIE/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1334690025&sr=8-4


That's not a co2 tank.


----------



## KenRC51

In.a.Box said:


> That's not a co2 tank.


oops, I didn't see that.

How about this setup then.
This co2 bottle http://www.amazon.com/Pure-Energy-4...2WAW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1334692922&sr=8-1

This regulator adaptor.
http://www.amazon.com/AQUATEK-CO2-P...9QDC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1334693063&sr=8-2

and this regulator
http://upaqua.net/products/co2-systems/regulators/ua-148-co2-regulator-simple-1g/

besides the diffuser, tube, and check valve did I get the parts right?


----------



## talontsiawd

KenRC51 said:


> oops, I didn't see that.
> 
> How about this setup then.
> This co2 bottle http://www.amazon.com/Pure-Energy-4...2WAW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1334692922&sr=8-1
> 
> This regulator adaptor.
> http://www.amazon.com/AQUATEK-CO2-P...9QDC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1334693063&sr=8-2
> 
> and this regulator
> http://upaqua.net/products/co2-systems/regulators/ua-148-co2-regulator-simple-1g/
> 
> besides the diffuser, tube, and check valve did I get the parts right?


I may be wrong but I don't think that regulator will work with that adapter. The regulator is not standard threading for US.


----------



## KenRC51

darn, what size threading do I need for that paintball co2 bottle I'm gonna get? It does not say on the website.

I just bought it from amazon, I will get it on thursday because I have amazon prime. Should I wait till the bottle comes to check for thread size before buying it?

How about the needle valve? What size to look for?

I want to buy as much as I can today, hehehe...impulse buying =)


----------



## elwray

The standard thread size in the US is called CGA320.


----------



## KenRC51

elwray said:


> The standard thread size in the US is called CGA320.


ok thanks


----------



## galabar

KenRC51 said:


> oops, I didn't see that.
> 
> How about this setup then.
> This co2 bottle http://www.amazon.com/Pure-Energy-4...2WAW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1334692922&sr=8-1
> 
> This regulator adaptor.
> http://www.amazon.com/AQUATEK-CO2-P...9QDC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1334693063&sr=8-2
> 
> and this regulator
> http://upaqua.net/products/co2-systems/regulators/ua-148-co2-regulator-simple-1g/
> 
> besides the diffuser, tube, and check valve did I get the parts right?


I don't think that is a regulator. It is, I believe, an on/off valve just like the ASA valve sold by this site.


----------



## elwray

KenRC51 said:


> oops, I didn't see that.
> 
> How about this setup then.
> This co2 bottle http://www.amazon.com/Pure-Energy-4...2WAW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1334692922&sr=8-1
> 
> This regulator adaptor.
> http://www.amazon.com/AQUATEK-CO2-P...9QDC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1334693063&sr=8-2
> 
> and this regulator
> http://upaqua.net/products/co2-systems/regulators/ua-148-co2-regulator-simple-1g/
> 
> besides the diffuser, tube, and check valve did I get the parts right?


I'm using that bottle and adapter you linked to, with this regulator unit:

http://www.amazon.com/AQUATEK-Regul...LM7G/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1334704186&sr=8-5

I'm sure there are "better" regulators out there, but for me just starting out I wanted to get something simple and affordable. So far after using it for about a month I have to say I like it. It's a dual-gauge regulator, needle valve, and electronic solenoid all in one pre-assembled package. It also comes with a bubble counter/check valve combination unit - I'm not thrilled about the check valve quality, but it is working just fine for the time being. Essentially, all you need to add if you have this stuff is tubing and a diffuser.


----------



## pglenn

KenRC51 said:


> oops, I didn't see that.
> 
> How about this setup then.
> This co2 bottle http://www.amazon.com/Pure-Energy-4...2WAW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1334692922&sr=8-1
> 
> This regulator adaptor.
> http://www.amazon.com/AQUATEK-CO2-P...9QDC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1334693063&sr=8-2
> 
> and this regulator
> http://upaqua.net/products/co2-systems/regulators/ua-148-co2-regulator-simple-1g/
> 
> besides the diffuser, tube, and check valve did I get the parts right?



if you wanna go the route similar to the Up-Aqua (and I confirmed previously that one isnt threaded for USA) look at this one. I have been using it for a couple months and it works alright tho I am slowly putting together my dream setup to replace it very soon. I believe its still an on-off rather than true regulator, but its better built, you can actually get it for same price or cheaper then ASA solution and it looks alot better too

http://www.aquariumguys.com/1-paintball-co2-controller.html


----------



## KenRC51

pglenn said:


> if you wanna go the route similar to the Up-Aqua (and I confirmed previously that one isnt threaded for USA) look at this one. I have been using it for a couple months and it works alright tho I am slowly putting together my dream setup to replace it very soon. I believe its still an on-off rather than true regulator, but its better built, you can actually get it for same price or cheaper then ASA solution and it looks alot better too
> 
> http://www.aquariumguys.com/1-paintball-co2-controller.html


Thanks alot, with that regulator it seems that I would not need a needle valve right? I would just loosen the knob slowly?

Crap, I try adding to cart and its not available.


----------



## pglenn

no needle valve needed. you need to turn the knob REAL slow as it is very sensitive. I did add an extra needle valve on mine just cas I wanted to. you can look at my profile in my regulators album and see what I did to mine


----------



## carpalstunna

is there a seal or o ring that goes between the on/of and the paintball tank or do you just screw it on?


----------



## elwray

The on/off just screws on to the paintball tank - but yes, there is an o-ring on the male threads of the paintball tank.


----------



## carpalstunna

right on the end of the tank but nothing in between the two pieces like a gasket, just metal on metal. Thats what I did but I was just making sure.


----------



## elwray

carpalstunna said:


> right on the end of the tank but nothing in between the two pieces like a gasket, just metal on metal. Thats what I did but I was just making sure.


Found this image on another TPT thread:










The lower left portion is what is screwed into the paintball tank itself. The upper right threads are what is sticking out of the paintball tank - note the clear/white O-ring at the top of these threads.

I think you'd notice if you had a leak at this junction, since bottle pressure is up around 800psi.

EDIT: Jaggedfury actually has some nice photos in this very thread itself: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/115850-paintball-co2-injection-diy-setup-tons-85.html


----------



## carpalstunna

thanks


----------



## robkabob14

i just bought a 7# tank for homebrewing and im going to use it for aquarium plants too. problem is my regulator is for paintball tanks and when i hook it up to the 7# er it hisses because the connection isnt tight. is there an adapter that i can use to to fix this problem? please help! the 7# tank is the normal 320 connection.


----------



## talontsiawd

robkabob14 said:


> i just bought a 7# tank for homebrewing and im going to use it for aquarium plants too. problem is my regulator is for paintball tanks and when i hook it up to the 7# er it hisses because the connection isnt tight. is there an adapter that i can use to to fix this problem? please help! the 7# tank is the normal 320 connection.


Depending on the regulator, you may be able to replace the paintball stem with a cga 320 stem.


----------



## tenzero1

Just wanted to say thanks for the awesome thread have been using my new diy setup for about a week now and its awesome!


----------



## Notnac

It seems I'm having some trouble with my paintball system. After every refill, I screw on the asa that contains my gauge and the needle valve but then it begins to make a hissing noise as if letting out pressure and co2 from a small hole underneath the regulator. The gauge doesn't move up in the psi either. I've been having this trouble for months now and I'm losing co2 and money from always refilling. I had a few leaks but I had those fixed with new teflon and tightening but the whole initial asa screw on is what kills my co2. Could anyone please help? I'm about ready to give up on the whole co2 system...


----------



## galabar

Notnac said:


> It seems I'm having some trouble with my paintball system. After every refill, I screw on the asa that contains my gauge and the needle valve but then it begins to make a hissing noise as if letting out pressure and co2 from a small hole underneath the regulator. The gauge doesn't move up in the psi either. I've been having this trouble for months now and I'm losing co2 and money from always refilling. I had a few leaks but I had those fixed with new teflon and tightening but the whole initial asa screw on is what kills my co2. Could anyone please help? I'm about ready to give up on the whole co2 system...


Are you replacing the o-ring on the cylinder pin valve? This would be a good place to start. If the CO2 is coming out of the hole at the bottom of the ASA valve (that little hole is to release the small amount of CO2 that may escape when screwing in or out the ASA valve), then it is making it past the o-ring.

On a side note, this particular setup (ASA valve) is very unsafe. You might just ditch the whole thing and get an actual regulator (an ASA valve is not a regulator).


----------



## Notnac

galabar said:


> Are you replacing the o-ring on the cylinder pin valve? This would be a good place to start. If the CO2 is coming out of the hole at the bottom of the ASA valve (that little hole is to release the small amount of CO2 that may escape when screwing in or out the ASA valve), then it is making it past the o-ring.
> 
> On a side note, this particular setup (ASA valve) is very unsafe. You might just ditch the whole thing and get an actual regulator (an ASA valve is not a regulator).


How would I know when I need to replace my O-ring? I could go ahead and replace it and see if that helps. You think I might have a better chance with the regulator? Could you point me in the right direction for some regulators in a pm just so I have an idea? Thanks.


----------



## T3Knical5urg3

I wanted to chime in on my setup after reading essentially this entire thread!

I setup the basic setup with a 20oz tank and watt valve, but had problems (like others) with the bps slowly declining in a 24-48 hour period.

I pulled out all my old paintball stuff and found a stock autococker fixed regulator. I put the inline regulator on and hope it works!









The psi out of the regulator is ~300psi.

I will update everyone one how it works.


----------



## HunterX

Just wanted to say thank you to all the folks providing input to this thread. I had a yeast co2 system. Needless-to-say that was getting old. Using the paintball co2 cylinder is genius.

This is my first tank! It's a 46 gallon bow front. Love to hear any ideas.


----------



## T3Knical5urg3

Wanted to give the update I promised about the regulator. 

It appears it worked! I have had a consistent bubble rate for 3 days now!


----------



## flipside25

Does anyone know how long different sized paintball tanks last for at 1bp? 

9oz
12oz
20oz
24oz


----------



## halffrozen

Why can't one just use two or more Needle Valves???

I mean, if it it the NV's problem, because it isn't of high quality, why not just step it down again?


----------



## izabella87

guys.. May-DAY!! Seriously.. i just did that system and i dont know how to correctly open it, its been blowing up on me, nearly killed all my fish. There was a small part of air coming out near the valve but i put in silicone so no more leaks. yet blows up still...
I dont know how to open the valve or the top part... how much to let out.. i mean i surely could go through the 143 pages we go here.. but please.. just tell me !


----------



## elwray

izabella87 said:


> guys.. May-DAY!! Seriously.. i just did that system and i dont know how to correctly open it, its been blowing up on me, nearly killed all my fish. There was a small part of air coming out near the valve but i put in silicone so no more leaks. yet blows up still...
> I dont know how to open the valve or the top part... how much to let out.. i mean i surely could go through the 143 pages we go here.. but please.. just tell me !


I don't think I understand what your problem is, can you rephrase that?

What does "blowing up on me" refer to?

Where was the CO2 leaking? What kind of silicone did you put in it?

Ideally you'd want to open the valve on the tank fully, but without a regulator it's possible that the tank is nearing empty and "dumping" the contents - with the setup you have I believe this is unavoidable. What does the gauge on the valve read?


----------



## izabella87

I just filled this tank.. it sorta accumulates somewhere.. and then bursts out! I siliconed in/out of the valve screw cuz the output wire was lose.
Gauge valve dont read nothing.. maybe it does but only when it blows up and by then im mostly conserned at turning it off


----------



## elwray

Bursts out into the tank or out of the valve? What "valve screw" did you silicone? And what do you mean by output wire? Do you have a solenoid on this somewhere?


----------



## izabella87

the screw on top of the valve, in between its got silicon cuz the plastic wire was lose inside n air escaped. ( and it bursts out of that tube)


----------



## izabella87

My problem is that i dont have a steady flow of co2 coming out.. it begins somewhat normal, and quickly stops then boooms out about a minute later.


----------



## elwray

Ok, I think you mean "tubing" and not "wire" - the plastic tube that the CO2 travels through, right?

Is the CO2 leaking out of the metal screw-part of the valve, or out of the connection where the tubing is attached? If it's the screw-part of the valve, then it's likely that the valve is no good and needs to be replaced - adding silicone to the valve itself won't likely fix it and would probably just make a mess.


----------



## izabella87

elwray said:


> Ok, I think you mean "tubing" and not "wire" - the plastic tube that the CO2 travels through, right? Correct  (im russian so sorry for bad english)
> 
> Is the CO2 leaking out of the metal screw-part of the valve, or out of the connection where the tubing is attached? yes this connection If it's the screw-part of the valve, then it's likely that the valve is no good and needs to be replaced - adding silicone to the valve itself won't likely fix it and would probably just make a mess.


And this valve is bran new, just filled a few days ago.


----------



## elwray

izabella87 said:


> My problem is that i dont have a steady flow of co2 coming out.. it begins somewhat normal, and quickly stops then boooms out about a minute later.


Sounds like this is some kind of obstruction/restriction in the tubing. Is it kinked or bent anywhere? What kind of diffuser are you using?

Without a regulator installed, you are essentially pushing 800psi into the tubing with nothing to stop it from either blowing off or exploding if the path becomes obstructed.


----------



## izabella87

A regulator is what,. those two meter looking things? Like the one i got but two of them ?


----------



## elwray

izabella87 said:


> A regulator is what,. those two meter looking things? Like the one i got but two of them ?


Pretty much, yes. A regulator will "step down" the pressure coming out of the CO2 tank to something safe, like 30psi. The needle valve controls the flow rate of CO2, _not_ the pressure. With a regulator, if something gets clogged up in the CO2 line the flow will just stop. Without a regulator, the pressure will continue to build until either it reaches the same pressure as the CO2 tank (~800psi) or something pops off. 

One of the meters (called gauges) tells you the pressure left inside the CO2 tank, and the other gauge tells you what pressure is being pushing into the tubing.


----------



## izabella87

Do you happen to know where i can get this ? PLEASE ! No jokes ive been working on this since a month (including time waiting for it to ship in the mail..)


----------



## elwray

izabella87 said:


> Do you happen to know where i can get this ? PLEASE ! No jokes ive been working on this since a month (including time waiting for it to ship in the mail..)


This is a pretty inexpensive one: it combines a regulator, needle valve, electronic solenoid all in one. I have one of these and I think it's a great value and works well. To connect it to a paintball tank, you need an adapter like this.

Here's the thing though - unless you figure out what is causing the pressure build up in the system now, this won't fix the problem. It will just make it safer and prevent blow-outs. If the tubing is blowing off the valve like you are describing, then something is clogged either in the tubing or in the diffuser you are using, and it isn't letting CO2 through the right way.


----------



## izabella87

i shall investigate, thank you xx


----------



## halffrozen

And so when the lights go out, you guys normally just turn the bottle off correct?

Is there a way to add in an electric solenoid? Besides going with the usual co2 regulator for large bottles?


----------



## elwray

halffrozen said:


> And so when the lights go out, you guys normally just turn the bottle off correct?
> 
> Is there a way to add in an electric solenoid? Besides going with the usual co2 regulator for large bottles?


You can add a solenoid in the mix independently of the needle valve/regulator/etc. It definitely does not have to be purchased already put together like the one I linked to earlier today in this thread.


----------



## galabar

halffrozen said:


> Why can't one just use two or more Needle Valves???
> 
> I mean, if it it the NV's problem, because it isn't of high quality, why not just step it down again?


Two needle valves (or ten) is no better than one. The needle valve doesn't regulate pressure.


----------



## cengherbogdan

I want to know how do you made your Needle Valve ?

* My Needle Valve1/8'' x 1/4'' (Ask me if interested) (PM Me)


----------



## Calmia22

I just setup my paintball co2 and I cannot get it to work right. Either I have so much pressure that it kind of explodes all at once when it comes out or I can't get anything out. I have the needle valve from home depot. This is so frustrating I barely even touch it and it just releases everything.


----------



## drewsuf82

How many of these would be needed for a 55 gallon, or how long would a 24 oz last for a 55 gallon


----------



## pglenn

elwray said:


> You can add a solenoid in the mix independently of the needle valve/regulator/etc. It definitely does not have to be purchased already put together like the one I linked to earlier today in this thread.


solenoids are designed to have a max input pressure, and with this system you are working with the tank pressure of 800psi. most solenoids work on a much lower PSI than that. be VERY careful on that


----------



## Calmia22

This was a huge waste of money. Never doing a diy item again.


----------



## elwray

Yes pressure must be within the manufacturer specs of the solenoid, thank you for adding that! 800 psi is nothing to sneeze at - that has the potential to cause a lot of damage if mishandled. 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


----------



## talontsiawd

Calmia22 said:


> This was a huge waste of money. Never doing a diy item again.


DIY is fine, this just isn't the best design. With a regular CO2 setup, you have a precise needle valve at 10-50 PSI, more or less. With this, you have a very imprecise needle valve at 800-1000 PSI. It's kind of like using binoculars with a little TV to get the experience of a big screen, it's just not the same. Well, that may be overstating but still, it's just not the best design though it works well enough for many.




As for the solenoid, I was going to say what other have said earlier. You need something rated for 800+ PSI. Even mine sometimes struggles at 40 PSI (not sure what it's rated for and it's pretty old) but is flawless at even 30. I wouldn't just put any old solenoid on one of these setups.


----------



## halffrozen

Calmia22 said:


> This was a huge waste of money. Never doing a diy item again.


How much money did you dump into a DIY? lol

I spent maybe around $5 for all these things.. though I had some of it already.. but still.


----------



## sayurasem

Just wanted to bounce this thread up. Looks like some people having a hard time to build it. Important rule: do not go cheap on the ASA on/off valve. Buy the one that are 10bucks + at eBay. Do not buy the 5 dollars one, because it did not work for me. Don't forget to grease up the threads for extra protection. I have been running my setup for more than six months now with 0 problem.

Yes it will be frustrating for the first 2 weeks setting this up and you will waste some gas and have to refil your tank several times. I learned from all my mistake I made on making this DIY and t pays off.

Right now I'm using super diffuser with paintball co2 and it is hands down.
If you guys are still having a hard time putting it together, jaggedfurry (OP) himself is selling plug and play this DIY setup. And I think there's another guy selling it as well. Don't give up guys!


----------



## Max

*An alternative needle valve???*

NVM, find the answer on page 93


> As long as one side of the Needle Valve is 1/8 NPT, it will thread onto the ASA On/Off Valve.
> 
> Needle Valve comes in 1/8 NPT, 3/4 NPT, 1/2 NPT, 1/4 NPT 1 NPT and so forth. If deciding to not go with the 1/8 NPT, you will need reducers and step-up couplers to make the fitting work. As far as Needle Valve functioning to where you can fine tune, that you will have to experiment with and let us know.


I might look for an alternative needle valve or reducer to fit ASA's 1/8.

Greetings all,

I tried to find the answer through the thread but could not go all 134 pages. The needle valve indicated in the guide are 1/8 x 1/4. I have found and bought Fairview Fittings needle valve (compression) which is being described only as 1/4 (3062-4, 1/4 Tube, 150 PSI).









Under Compression Union

[update] I have read the last twenty pages of the thread which covers the idea of having a regulator on the tank and then ASA + valve. Still the above questions remain unclear.

Might this work or I need something precisely 1/8 x 1/4? I understand that 1/4 is for the tubing. What about 1/8? What is it for? I do not want to open the package to try it as in case this is a wrong piece of hardware I will return it to the shop.

I have found as well the tubing which is precisely Watts SVEB10 so I have no questions regarding this.


----------



## Max

Does anyone still sell stuff related to this thread?


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## galabar

Calmia22 said:


> I just setup my paintball co2 and I cannot get it to work right. Either I have so much pressure that it kind of explodes all at once when it comes out or I can't get anything out. I have the needle valve from home depot. This is so frustrating I barely even touch it and it just releases everything.


This should be expected. You are trying to regulate 800 PSI of pressure without a regulator. Even if you replaced the crappy needle valve with a much more expensive needle valve, the bubble count would still drift all over the place as the ambient room temperature changed.


----------



## galabar

Max said:


> Does anyone still sell stuff related to this thread?


Gosh, I hope not. So far I've only seen tanks destroyed and small injuries with this type of set up. I'm fearing the day that something worse happens to someone.

My advice would be to stay away. It just isn't worth it.


----------



## Max

galabar said:


> Gosh, I hope not. So far I've only seen tanks destroyed and small injuries with this type of set up. I'm fearing the day that something worse happens to someone.
> 
> My advice would be to stay away. It just isn't worth it.


Actually I have already changed my mind as I went to the paintball store and the price for the setup including the regulator is greater than ordering a real regulator with solenoid and then using just the tank adapter to put it on the paintball CO2 tank. So I'll go this route instead. Running a 800-psi tank without regulator does not sound safe and with the regulator it reaches or even outgoes the price of a proper kit.


----------



## Aerodynamic

soooo....of the setup on page one..what is missing on there that I would need to buy to keep the paintball tank from shooting off my face or potentially causing a holocaust in my fish tank x.x...?


----------



## zombieskickass

Aerodynamic said:


> soooo....of the setup on page one..what is missing on there that I would need to buy to keep the paintball tank from shooting off my face or potentially causing a holocaust in my fish tank x.x...?


all i did was get a better needle valve


----------



## elwray

Aerodynamic said:


> soooo....of the setup on page one..what is missing on there that I would need to buy to keep the paintball tank from shooting off my face or potentially causing a holocaust in my fish tank x.x...?


Ideally you should install a regulator - that steps down the pressure from 800psi (in the gas cylinder) to a safer, lower pressure somewhere around 30psi.

In my tank, I have a valve where the CO2 enters the reactor so I can prevent the tank from siphoning when I need to refill my CO2 tank. Last week I took everything apart to clean it, but when I put it back together I forgot to open the valve. The next day I saw my drop checker was showing almost no CO2, and I realized what I did. Since I have a regulator, all that happened was that CO2 built up in the tubing to 30psi (what my regulator output is set at) and stopped flowing. Nothing exploded, nothing popped, nothing broke. If I didn't have that regulator, I'd bet the farm that something certainly would have been damaged at 800psi in the same situation.


----------



## BS87

800+psi into a needle valve isn't the greatest idea


----------



## In.a.Box

without a reg you need a good nv something that can handle 1000+psi.
thats the only way you can be sure ur safe.


----------



## cengherbogdan

Hy everyone.
I have a co2 paintball tank 20 oz, with a solenoid co2 regulator aquatek and the aquatek adapter. everything run perfect until last night when the co2 licking thru adapter hole.
everything is brand new.what could be the problem ?
I attached a picture : 

http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff371/pozetinerete/co2-1.jpg









P.S. sorry for my bad english


----------



## KenRC51

cengherbogdan said:


> Hy everyone.
> I have a co2 paintball tank 20 oz, with a solenoid co2 regulator aquatek and the aquatek adapter. everything run perfect until last night when the co2 licking thru adapter hole.
> everything is brand new.what could be the problem ?
> I attached a picture :
> 
> http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff371/pozetinerete/co2-1.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. sorry for my bad english


How long was it running until it started to leak? 

What made you check for leak after you had it running without leaks? Did you notice a big drop in psi?

Leak can be probably due to o-ring or the connection point from adapter to regulator since. Did you put a washer in there? Did you tighten with a wrench?

I have the same exact setup as yours. The first aquatek regulator I got leaked from the gauge connection point so I emailed them and they replace it with another one. Now its working perfectly with no leak.


----------



## galabar

KenRC51 said:


> How long was it running until it started to leak?
> 
> What made you check for leak after you had it running without leaks? Did you notice a big drop in psi?
> 
> Leak can be probably due to o-ring or the connection point from adapter to regulator since. Did you put a washer in there? Did you tighten with a wrench?
> 
> I have the same exact setup as yours. The first aquatek regulator I got leaked from the gauge connection point so I emailed them and they replace it with another one. Now its working perfectly with no leak.


Agreed -- probably the o-ring.


----------



## pweifan

I had a lot of problems with my set up  It worked great (after buying some parts 2 and 3 times) for about 4 months. I wish I'd just saved up the money and invested in a real CO2 setup. It would have saved me a LOT of hassle.


----------



## cengherbogdan

right now i put teflon tape and same problem . the co2 is get out of tank thru co2 adapter hole with big pressure. i'm gone change the o ring and see what happen !
only online i can found those o ring ? home depot ?


----------



## B0st0wn

Thanks for this information. I'm gonna go ahead and give this a try this weekend definitely thank you. 


Sent from ThiPhone using Tapatalk


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## eeng168

Thank you for this thread! I have both of those adapters on my paintball gear...now I just need to go those needle valves! Thank you!!!!!:thumbsup:


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## tylergvolk

I've created my own DIY paintball co2 system and I can't get a constant flow rate.
As I understand it, this is a common problem. I see why people perfer the expensive co2 systems.

Does anyone have any tips for controlling the flow rate/bps with a paintball setup?

I'll set it at about 1-2bps and 12 later it will be at 0.

Thanks.


----------



## orchidman

tylergvolk said:


> I've created my own DIY paintball co2 system and I can't get a constant flow rate.
> As I understand it, this is a common problem. I see why people perfer the expensive co2 systems.
> 
> Does anyone have any tips for controlling the flow rate/bps with a paintball setup?
> 
> I'll set it at about 1-2bps and 12 later it will be at 0.
> 
> Thanks.


i have the same problem! i have one of the setups that originally came from jaggedfry. i set the output to where i want it, and 10 minutes later, nothing is coming out... at all. 

help us!!


----------



## freph

tylergvolk said:


> I've created my own DIY paintball co2 system and I can't get a constant flow rate.
> As I understand it, this is a common problem. I see why people perfer the expensive co2 systems.
> 
> Does anyone have any tips for controlling the flow rate/bps with a paintball setup?
> 
> I'll set it at about 1-2bps and 12 later it will be at 0.
> 
> Thanks.


Yes, get a proper regulator and needle valve that will give you a dependable, adjustable bubble count. At least get something that will reduce the PSI and a needle valve, 800~1000psi isn't something to toy with with an on/off valve and a cheap needle valve.


----------



## tylergvolk

freph said:


> Yes, get a proper regulator and needle valve that will give you a dependable, adjustable bubble count. At least get something that will reduce the PSI and a needle valve, 800~1000psi isn't something to toy with with an on/off valve and a cheap needle valve.


Thanks! I'm starting to understand that from first hand experience. I donn't really like this paintball setup much. I mean it gets the job done but it not very reliable. I've been shopping around though.

Here is a link to a post I put up this morning regard an option I am considering.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=189406


----------



## orchidman

freph said:


> Yes, get a proper regulator and needle valve that will give you a dependable, adjustable bubble count. At least get something that will reduce the PSI and a needle valve, 800~1000psi isn't something to toy with with an on/off valve and a cheap needle valve.


if there a certain one you would recommend? when it comes to co2 im almost clueless. i wont know how to tell which one is good and which isnt


----------



## Omy330

I made one of these and also have the same problem can't keep a constant flow rate but every morning I adjust it to get the flow rate I want I figure its still a lot better then mix yeast and sugar


----------



## freph

orchidman said:


> if there a certain one you would recommend? when it comes to co2 im almost clueless. i wont know how to tell which one is good and which isnt


I'm not well versed when it comes to the paintball regulators themselves. Jaggedfury may be able to enlighten you. I know GLA sells one that essentially reduces the PSI of the tank from 800~1000 to around 40 so it's still compatible with their atomic diffusers. Or, you can take a regular old regulator and use a paintball -> CGA 320 converter on it (amazon, ebay, take your pick. aquatek sells them for sure) and then put a post body kit to your liking on it. I'd get with Jaggedfury and see what he can tell you about the paintball regulators (not ASA on/off valves, I honestly consider these useless when sold in a base configuration with just a brass needle valve) if you're on a budget. Otherwise, feel free go drop a couple hundred into a good CO2 setup that'll last you a lifetime and be as precise as you want it to be.


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## orchidman

**jaggedfry-help!!!!***

yeah i dont have hundred of dollars to drop on anything right now.


----------



## tylergvolk

So here is what I did which helped me get a somewhat constant rate.

On the paintball setup set it to about 3-5 bps and over the next hour watch it. Mine slowly slowed down to about 1.5bps.

In the mean time, I just picked up a real pressurized setup. I think I will be much happier with a reliable setup.


----------



## orchidman

tylergvolk said:


> So here is what I did which helped me get a somewhat constant rate.
> 
> On the paintball setup set it to about 3-5 bps and over the next hour watch it. Mine slowly slowed down to about 1.5bps.
> 
> In the mean time, I just picked up a real pressurized setup. I think I will be much happier with a reliable setup.


same with mine... except for it started at 5 bps and went down to 0


----------



## tylergvolk

orchidman said:


> same with mine... except for it started at 5 bps and went down to 0


Start it higher, in hopes it will stop short of 0. lol

be careful to not gas ur fish to death


----------



## crice8

LOL I have the GLA Atomic v2 paintball regulator and couldn't be happier! it stays perfectly consistant and it built very solidly. I have been running it for about two weeks now with great results! Even started a purely planted tank!


----------



## DeLaFe

I just wanted to thank you guys for this incredible thread! I am in the process of setting up my first planted tank (I have 2 reef tanks and I used to keep African Cichlids many years ago) and have bought everything except the CO2 injection and lighting. I came VERY close to buying the Fluval Pressurized CO2 Kit, but the reviews were iffy and refill CO2 cartridges are expensive.

I am going to order the parts tomorrow and will work on putting this together next week. I will post pics when I am done.

Any thoughts on the inexpensive Adapter/Gauges available on eBay?

Ebay link was removed, but they are the "all-in-one adapters with the gauge built right into the unit. Description is:

"THIS LISTING IS A DO IT YOURSELF ADAPTER TO CREATE CO2 INJECTION SYSTEM FOR YOUR AQUARIUM / PLANT TANK FROM A COMPACT SIZE CO2 TANK THAT CAN BE REFILLED. FITS ON ANY STANDARD PAINTBALL CO2 TANK AND CAN SHUT THE TANK ON AND OFF WITH KNOB ON TOP. THIS ADAPTER INCLUDES 2 OUTPUT PORTS, 1/8 NPT, AND A 1500 PSI GAUGE INSTALLED IN ONE OF THE PORTS (WITH LOCTITE). REQUIRES, DO IT YOURSELF INSTALL, OF YOUR CHOICE OF SIMPLE ON OFF VALVES (CAN BE PURCHASED FROM HARDWARE STORES) AND LINES RUNNING TO YOUR TANK. ADAPTER ALSO FEATURES 2 O-RING PIN VALVE DESIGN AND DEGASSING WHEN THE KNOB IS UNSCREWED"

Trying to get my hands on a "free" paintball CO2 tank, otherwise I will pick one up next time I go to Pennsylvania or New Jersey.

Best,

Alfred


----------



## Drumstin

I just bought a needle valve that looks really good.. It goes up to 3000psi and is only 15 bux, and never opened.. They still have 10 more I think:

Ebay Item# 140850264370


----------



## Jrodroberts

just bought this aquatek co2 regulator mini on ebay, fits paintball tanks so cheap refills plus comes with regulator, solenoid, bubble counter, and 8ft of tubing for like 80$! fingers crossed*


----------



## Omy330

Jrodroberts
Please keep me updated on that product because I was looking to buy that same product


----------



## Jrodroberts

it looks legit, i watched a you tube demo of it and it just screws on no prob, so i just bought a 20oz tank online and a diffuser, hopefully im good to go. i really wanted to do the diy but was worried about the needle valve consistency. plus i have fishies so i dont wanna gas em thus the need for the solenoid. ill post on here how it turns out though.


----------



## yogee

sup, i want to buy a setup from you including the co2 tube/lines too. Are the co2 line same size as the air lines for fish tanks??.. i already got a paintball co2 tank... cheapest but must be reliable brands that you can get. I'm from Stockton so shipping will be very cheap from Sac. with USPS 
Let me know thnx

(your PM storage is full!!!!!!!)


----------



## Bennyboy

I decided to go with a paintball setup for a 9 gallon shrimp tank im setting up. I already have the on off valve w/ gauge, and a 20 oz co2 tank. I was in homedepot the other day looking at needle valves. They had both that are in the pictures at the start of this thread. The second one that is a 90 degree is a compression valve. Will that be good enough to withstand the pressure and be able to tweek to 1-2 bps. Im new to co2 setups


----------



## oldpunk78

I can't believe no one's hurt them selves with one of these things yet 

This is a how-to that seriously should be looked upon as a liability to the forum and should be DELETED.


----------



## sayurasem

oldpunk78 said:


> I can't believe no one's hurt them selves with one of these things yet
> 
> This is a how-to that seriously should be looked upon as a liability to the forum and should be DELETED.


It has worked great for me so I don't think this thread should get deleted.


----------



## R.sok

Just out of curiousity wouldn't it be safer to use this http://www.amazon.com/AQUATEK-CO2-P...e=UTF8&qid=1350649142&sr=8-1&keywords=CGA+320 along with this? http://www.amazon.com/Kegco-Premium...&qid=1350649361&sr=8-7&keywords=c02+regulator


----------



## crice8

R.sok said:


> Just out of curiousity wouldn't it be safer to use this http://www.amazon.com/AQUATEK-CO2-P...e=UTF8&qid=1350649142&sr=8-1&keywords=CGA+320 along with this? http://www.amazon.com/Kegco-Premium...&qid=1350649361&sr=8-7&keywords=c02+regulator


That Kegco looks like a cheapo POS.


----------



## R.sok

Thanks for your input. In terms of safety Just wanted to see if anyone went this route instead of using the needle valve from home depot.


----------



## khs2424

Would this work?

Ebay listing #380478407429


----------



## beedee

What is the secret to getting a consistent bubble count with these needle valves? I am finding it will hold a steady count for a few hours, but then when I wake up in the morning, it has slowed. I don't mind it for now, since I don't have any fauna yet, but this could prove detrimental once fauna is introduced.

I know that just the slightest of adjustments can really skew the count out of whack in one way or another, it's only been a week since I've had this set up running, but it is growing a bit frustrating trying to keep it steady at a certain rate.

Any tips?

If I can't get it figured out, I'm thinking of getting an Aquatek Mini.


----------



## Darkblade48

beedee said:


> What is the secret to getting a consistent bubble count with these needle valves? I am finding it will hold a steady count for a few hours, but then when I wake up in the morning, it has slowed. I don't mind it for now, since I don't have any fauna yet, but this could prove detrimental once fauna is introduced.


Unfortunately, as you have found out, these needle valves are not really meant for the fine adjustment of gas flow that we require in this hobby. 

You are better off getting a quality needle/metering valve for this purpose.

I have reserves against those all-in-one pressurized CO2 setups, but some people swear by them.


----------



## beedee

Darkblade48 said:


> Unfortunately, as you have found out, these needle valves are not really meant for the fine adjustment of gas flow that we require in this hobby.
> 
> You are better off getting a quality needle/metering valve for this purpose.
> 
> I have reserves against those all-in-one pressurized CO2 setups, but some people swear by them.


Thanks, after actually experiencing the inconsistencies, all of these people's post about the same thing finally have sunk in. Looks like it's time to start looking into a legit co2 set up. I don't want to skimp on this tank at all, it's become my pride and joy.  (it's the one in my signature)


----------



## beedee

nevermind.


----------



## Scyry

Anyone else every thought of trying something like this to lower the pressure before putting it through a needle valve? Haven't seen anything else that claims to reduce pressure like this AG1 Gen2 Regulator.

http://www.rap4.com/paintball/os/gen2-regulator-p-1865.html


----------



## Darkblade48

Scyry said:


> Anyone else every thought of trying something like this to lower the pressure before putting it through a needle valve? Haven't seen anything else that claims to reduce pressure like this AG1 Gen2 Regulator.
> 
> http://www.rap4.com/paintball/os/gen2-regulator-p-1865.html


These are your typical paintball sized (mini) regulators.

GLA sells some as well, I believe.


----------



## Hilde

Will this regulator work?


----------



## Jeffww

Ran this set up with a swagelok 5000psi rated needle valve and it worked fine for a year until I took the tank down. IMO if you just get the right parts it's fine.


----------



## oldpunk78

Hilde said:


> Will this regulator work?


No. That's for hydroponics.


----------



## Hilde

Jeffww said:


> Ran this set up with a swagelok 5000psi rated needle valve.


 Searched for swagelok and found swagelok co. which only has regulators listed. Will this swagelok regulator work?


----------



## Darkblade48

Swagelok is more known for its metering valves rather than regulators.

You are better off looking for Victor, Matheson, or Concoa regulators instead. These have been tried and tested by many users.


----------



## laqu

i like that this is SMALL... hm... thinking...

how low can you set it (lowest bubble count)


----------



## Hilde

Just realized there is no mention of a regulator in the 1st post. Now uncertain if I need 1. Do I?


----------



## Hilde

Jrodroberts said:


> just bought this aquatek co2 regulator mini on ebay,


 For size tank is this for? Would it fit a 20 or 24 oz paintball tank?


----------



## Hilde

Jaggedfury said:


> *This setup can cost from $30 dollars to $80 dollars + for a working unit. **http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KYQDDBjX5s
> *


I don't see how it can be done for under $80. No regulator? Regulators are expensive. Logically seems for safety should have a regulator. What do you think?


----------



## Darkblade48

Hilde said:


> Just realized there is no mention of a regulator in the 1st post. Now uncertain if I need 1. Do I?





Hilde said:


> I don't see how it can be done for under $80. No regulator? Regulators are expensive. Logically seems for safety should have a regulator. What do you think?


Ideally, yes, you should have a regulator. The regulator is what brings the pressure of the carbon dioxide from 800 PSI down to reasonable levels (30 PSI or less). Without it, you are just playing with fire (figuratively speaking).



Hilde said:


> For size tank is this for? Would it fit a 20 or 24 oz paintball tank?


The Aquatek regulators are for regular sized (5 pound and up) CO2 cylinders with CGA320 fittings.


----------



## dmifflin

i second that .ive done the same set up .without a reg. your just playing with high pressure. if that valve lets go i would go flying across the room . we need to find a cheap low pressure paintball reg.


----------



## somewhatshocked

You don't need to find a cheap paintball regulator.

Buy a normal, dual-stage regulator that's in good shape for $50-$60 and spend $10 on a CGA/paintball adapter. That's about as cheap as you can get - and it's half as spendy as the rebranded paintball-specific regulators you can buy from a few retailers.


----------



## Hilde

Jaggedfury said:


> *This setup can cost from $30 dollars to $80 dollars + for a working unit. **http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KYQDDBjX5s
> *





somewhatshocked said:


> Buy a normal, dual-stage regulator for $50-$60 and spend $10 on a CGA/paintball adapter.


Plus the paintball tank, which is $20. Cost is at least $90. Not worth the effort to me. Cheaper to dose excel, which I make from cidex, daily into my 29G tank


----------



## somewhatshocked

If that works for your needs, stick to it. But many people don't use Excel because it gets expensive, can't be used with some plants or doesn't work out with sensitive livestock.

Going the regulator route with a paintball adapter may be $80-$90 up front but it allows you to upgrade to a full-size CO2 cylinder down the road if desired. There's also a ton of resale value in a regulator.



Hilde said:


> Plus the paintball tank, which is $20. Cost is at least $90. Not worth the effort to me. Cheaper to dose excel, which I make from cidex, daily into my 29G tank


----------



## Hilde

I wish I could figure out how Jaggedfury made 1 under $80. I was prepared to spend $50.


----------



## mttaz1005

I just bought a used paintball tank on ebay for $12 shipped to go this route obviously. I'll keep anyone who might be interested on how much more i spend on the rest of the set up.


----------



## Jeffww

The savings come when you can buy a cheap ASA. I got a very high quality one for 7 bucks because the manufacturer went under.


----------



## Hilde

mttaz1005 said:


> I just bought a used paintball tank on ebay for $12 shipped to go this route obviously. I'll keep anyone who might be interested on how much more i spend on the rest of the set up.


Yeh, I would like to see how cheap you can do it. Going to start your own thread? Going to use a regulator?

Just found this AquaticLife adaptor with Regulator and Solenoid for $19. PSI max 3,500. Would this work?


----------



## Jeffww

That's just an adaptor to change CGA320 to pb...


----------



## Darkblade48

Hilde said:


> Yeh, I would like to see how cheap you can do it. Going to start your own thread? Going to use a regulator?
> 
> Just found this AquaticLife adaptor with Regulator and Solenoid for $19. PSI max 3,500. Would this work?





Jeffww said:


> That's just an adaptor to change CGA320 to pb...


Agreed. Going by the item description, it is just an adapter. The image is quite misleading.


----------



## unicknn

Would you be able to use this set up along with an inline reactor like this one?

http://greenleafaquariums.com/co2-diffusers/atomic-inline-diffuser-16.html


----------



## Darkblade48

unicknn said:


> Would you be able to use this set up along with an inline reactor like this one?
> 
> http://greenleafaquariums.com/co2-diffusers/atomic-inline-diffuser-16.html


"This setup" as in the paintball setup in the first post in this thread? 

If so, yes.

Just make sure you have the appropriate sized diffuser that matches your canister filter's tubing.


----------



## Hilde

Jeffww said:


> The savings come when you can buy a cheap ASA. I got a very high quality one for 7 bucks


Can get 1 on Ebay for $10. It for a 1/8npt threaded hose. Will that work?


----------



## scags

Hey everyone, just did the exact setup the OP has. 20oz paintball tank- small adapter with gauge, and a needle valve from Lowes. 

My problem is that I can't seem to get a nice 2bps. I just barely open the needle valve and it's full blast. Anyone else have this issue? 

I can't seem to regulate flow, just wants to blast out!

Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Darkblade48

scags said:


> Hey everyone, just did the exact setup the OP has. 20oz paintball tank- small adapter with gauge, and a needle valve from Lowes.
> 
> My problem is that I can't seem to get a nice 2bps. I just barely open the needle valve and it's full blast. Anyone else have this issue?
> 
> I can't seem to regulate flow, just wants to blast out!
> 
> Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


The "needle valve" that you bought at the hardware store will not be able to give you 2 bubbles per second. That degree of control will only be achieved with a proper needle/metering valve.


----------



## hbosman

Darkblade48 said:


> The "needle valve" that you bought at the hardware store will not be able to give you 2 bubbles per second. That degree of control will only be achieved with a proper needle/metering valve.


Not to mention that that "needle valve" is being used to try to get a working pressure of 800 PSI down 2 bubbles per second. :hihi:


----------



## scags

hbosman said:


> Not to mention that that "needle valve" is being used to try to get a working pressure of 800 PSI down 2 bubbles per second. :hihi:



Thanks guys, so where do I find a proper valve? It appears the original poster was able to use this equipment and get 2bps?


----------



## scags

Hilde said:


> I wish I could figure out how Jaggedfury made 1 under $80. I was prepared to spend $50.


I spent probably half that making the same setup Jagged made. 
20oz Paintball tank (ebay) 18.00
Co2 glass diffuser (ebay) 6.00
Tubing (lowes) 3.00
Needle Valve (lowes) 8.00

total cost so far= 35.00

***However- I have been unable to use the needle valve to control the output of co2 correctly. It appears as though I may need to get a different more accurate valve- or jump ship and get a dual gauge regulator. 

I already have a full working co2 setup on my big tank. I was just trying to save some money on my newly setup nano. If only it ever worked that way!


----------



## discgo

Are your tanks close by each other? You could split off your other system after the regulator and just add on another needle valve for tge small tank if its close by.


----------



## Beer

Do these end up dumping CO2 into the tank when the cylinder gets close to empty?
I'm sure it's in the thread somewhere, but I got 5 pages in from both ends and didn't find anything. 139 pages is a bit daunting.


----------



## pglenn

under $50?

can be done easily... $20 for the tank. $10 for the ADA Adapter.$10 for the "needle valve".$10 for a diffusor. odds/ends include check valve and tubing. and those prices are top-end with shipping, if purchased separately. I can supply all the above if needed/wanted for less as a package. HOWEVER...

as others have stated this works but is not recomended. i ALSO have a selection of "proper" regulators and accessories. look at the albums in my profile to see what I gave.


----------



## Darkblade48

Beer said:


> Do these end up dumping CO2 into the tank when the cylinder gets close to empty?
> I'm sure it's in the thread somewhere, but I got 5 pages in from both ends and didn't find anything. 139 pages is a bit daunting.


Given that there is no "real" regulator nor needle valve, the chances of EOTD occurring are higher.


----------



## pglenn

this kind of setup does work, there are 100's of ppl here that would attest to it. EOTD is also not really reported as a problem. the real issue is, having a "real" setup is not much more expensive than one of these. spend $50 on ones of these, spend $70 on a proper regulator with a solenoid.


----------



## discgo

Darkblade48 said:


> Given that there is no "real" regulator nor needle valve, the chances of EOTD occurring are higher.


Could you go into a little more detail about why this would be? I thought the eotd was due to a failure of the single stage regulator as the tanks pressure drops. If there is no regulator to fail wouldn't the pressure against the needle valve just become less and less till the tank is empty?


----------



## scags

Well I have managed to use the needle valve I have to get a nice bps on my tank. But I find that I have to make adjustments everyday. 
My big tank that has a dual gauge regulator is just too far away. 

I think in a couple weeks I'm just going to hop on eBay and get a real regulator so I don't have to worry about it. 
Just wish this setup was slightly more reliable.


----------



## scags

Also, I wouldnt worry too much about end of tank scenarios. I have only ever read about it on the net- never actually met or spoke with anyone who experienced this. Besides unless your injecting inline i would assume most of the co2 rises to the surface and dissipates.


----------



## Darkblade48

scags said:


> Also, I wouldnt worry too much about end of tank scenarios. I have only ever read about it on the net- never actually met or spoke with anyone who experienced this. Besides unless your injecting inline i would assume most of the co2 rises to the surface and dissipates.


I have seen EOTD before...since I sell and test CO2 regulators more than most people 

It is a real event, and can occur with single stage regulators.


----------



## discgo

Darkblade48 said:


> I have seen EOTD before...since I sell and test CO2 regulators more than most people
> 
> It is a real event, and can occur with single stage regulators.


This contradicts what you said earlier about it happening when there is no regulator.


----------



## Chrome

try chaining to needle valves together, you might be able to get better control that way. first valve slows it down a little, second valve gives more precise control. Not sure if it works that way, but for $8 for needle valve, it might be worth a shot to try it.


----------



## scags

I am now using 2 needle valves. I have better control now, but find myself making adjustments daily. Really annoying. Definitely appreciating my main tank's 60 dollar dual gauge. Money well spent. I wish they would make a dual gauge that directly attached to paintball tanks - other than that 150 dollar red sea one- which looks cheap regardless of the price.

Searching the web for a high pressure fine adjustment needle valve seems hopeless. 

PS- I am sure EOTD do happen, Co2 is deadly to fish/shrimp/snails and caution should be exercised when using any co2 setup!


----------



## Darkblade48

discgo said:


> This contradicts what you said earlier about it happening when there is no regulator.


Perhaps I should clarify.

My first comment regarding the "real" regulator was unclear. Also, I may have misused the term "EOTD," adding to the confusion.

Let me define EOTD as when there remains no more liquid CO2 in the cylinder, and the gaseous CO2 begins to rush into the regulator, and it not being able to regulate the gas, will release it in increasingly large amounts into the aquarium (EOTD does not usually catastrophically release all the CO2 in at once).

Now, with most single stage regulators, the above phenomenon will occur.

With cheaper (I refer to this as "non-real") regulators, i.e. this one:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showpost.php?p=2396770&postcount=11

EOTD can occur, but it is more likely that they will not be able to regulate the pressure from the start (i.e. when there is still liquid CO2 in the cylinder), and will result in a catastrophic failure (as it did for that user).

Actually, in that thread, the paintball cylinder released all the gas (while the cylinder was new), killing all the shrimp.

Then (later in the thread), a single stage regulator end of tank dumped into another aquarium, killing off all German Blue Rams and their fry 



scags said:


> Searching the web for a high pressure fine adjustment needle valve seems hopeless.


If you were open to running inline needle valves (rather than mounting them), you could use any standard needle/metering valve.


----------



## pglenn

scags said:


> I am now using 2 needle valves. I have better control now, but find myself making adjustments daily. Really annoying. Definitely appreciating my main tank's 60 dollar dual gauge. Money well spent. I wish they would make a dual gauge that directly attached to paintball tanks - other than that 150 dollar red sea one- which looks cheap regardless of the price.
> 
> Searching the web for a high pressure fine adjustment needle valve seems hopeless.
> 
> PS- I am sure EOTD do happen, Co2 is deadly to fish/shrimp/snails and caution should be exercised when using any co2 setup!


first you have to realize exactly how this system works. it is not actually "regulating" the pressure. it is slowing the flow. similar but not quite the same. the pressure will still build even with low flow. a true regulator downscales the pressure from 800 to 150 or 70 or 15 or whatever, which you THEN adjust the flow on. now if you have 1, 2, 3, whatever needle valves in place, the "pressure" can still build across them. you have to (1) have the first valve nearly shut and (2) have the first valve not a cheap $8 valve that itself is only rated for 40lbs when the tank is putting out 800lbs. yhe high pressure is what makes these hard to adjust regardless of the valve. the last thing that will contribute to constant adjustments, other than minute leaks somewhere in the line, is the line itself. if you are using standard airline it will leak thru the line itself. maybe not at first but over time and under pressure. you need silicone line, at a minimum.

you "can" use a cheap needle valve with an expensive regulator but SHOULD NOT use a cheap needle valve on one of these. so, as you think it thru, getting the right equptment up front for a few dollars more starts to make more sense. a good system is set once and you rarely have to tinker with it after that other than changing the tank

Patrick


----------



## discgo

Darkblade48 said:


> Perhaps I should clarify.
> 
> My first comment regarding the "real" regulator was unclear. Also, I may have misused the term "EOTD," adding to the confusion.
> 
> *Let me define EOTD as when there remains no more liquid CO2 in the cylinder, and the gaseous CO2 begins to rush into the regulator, and it not being able to regulate the gas, will release it in increasingly large amounts into the aquarium (EOTD does not usually catastrophically release all the CO2 in at once).
> *
> Now, with most single stage regulators, the above phenomenon will occur.
> 
> With cheaper (I refer to this as "non-real") regulators, i.e. this one:
> 
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showpost.php?p=2396770&postcount=11
> 
> EOTD can occur, but it is more likely that they will not be able to regulate the pressure from the start (i.e. when there is still liquid CO2 in the cylinder), and will result in a catastrophic failure (as it did for that user).
> 
> Actually, in that thread, the paintball cylinder released all the gas (while the cylinder was new), killing all the shrimp.
> 
> Then (later in the thread), a single stage regulator end of tank dumped into another aquarium, killing off all German Blue Rams and their fry
> 
> 
> If you were open to running inline needle valves (rather than mounting them), you could use any standard needle/metering valve.


I think I see where I was confused now as well. I always thought that co2 regulators used the gas from the top of the tank and not the actual liquid c02. If I understand what you are saying than the regulators are picking up the liquid from the bottom of the tank and releasing it as a gas after decreasing the pressure.


----------



## Darkblade48

discgo said:


> I think I see where I was confused now as well. I always thought that co2 regulators used the gas from the top of the tank and not the actual liquid c02. If I understand what you are saying than the regulators are picking up the liquid from the bottom of the tank and releasing it as a gas after decreasing the pressure.


CO2 regulators use the gas from the top of the cylinder and not liquid CO2.

A regulator, as its name implies, will regulate pressure (i.e. reduce the pressure from 800 PSI to a delivery pressure of 30 PSI).

From what I can see, those cheap paintball "regulators" do not do this.


----------



## discgo

Darkblade48 said:


> CO2 regulators use the gas from the top of the cylinder and not liquid CO2.
> 
> A regulator, as its name implies, will regulate pressure (i.e. reduce the pressure from 800 PSI to a delivery pressure of 30 PSI).
> 
> From what I can see, those cheap paintball "regulators" do not do this.


That's what I always thought too until I read what you posted earlier about regulators not being able to regulate gaseous co2.


----------



## scags

pglenn said:


> first you have to realize exactly how this system works. it is not actually "regulating" the pressure. it is slowing the flow. similar but not quite the same. the pressure will still build even with low flow. a true regulator downscales the pressure from 800 to 150 or 70 or 15 or whatever, which you THEN adjust the flow on. now if you have 1, 2, 3, whatever needle valves in place, the "pressure" can still build across them. you have to (1) have the first valve nearly shut and (2) have the first valve not a cheap $8 valve that itself is only rated for 40lbs when the tank is putting out 800lbs. yhe high pressure is what makes these hard to adjust regardless of the valve. the last thing that will contribute to constant adjustments, other than minute leaks somewhere in the line, is the line itself. if you are using standard airline it will leak thru the line itself. maybe not at first but over time and under pressure. you need silicone line, at a minimum.
> 
> you "can" use a cheap needle valve with an expensive regulator but SHOULD NOT use a cheap needle valve on one of these. so, as you think it thru, getting the right equptment up front for a few dollars more starts to make more sense. a good system is set once and you rarely have to tinker with it after that other than changing the tank
> 
> Patrick


I agree. I have a dual stage on my big tank, and I never have to touch it. It flows nice a smooth for months on end. My cheap setup is already empty. So I have to refill that tank again and look into buying proper equipment. Just seemed like I was hearing alot of people using these cheap setups and thought I would give it a try. 
I was using proper Co2 line and I used teflon tape and checked for leaks. It was like you said first off- the pressure was continuously building and letting out massive amounts of co2 over time. Luckily I have no livestock in that tank right now- cause they'd be dead.

Where do I find higher rated needle valves?


----------



## FlyingHellFish

Since you guys already have the paintball tanks, wouldn't it be more logical to just buy those 80 dollars Aquatek? 

OR if you want to go the pure sexy paintball way, you can do this:


----------



## Darkblade48

scags said:


> Where do I find higher rated needle valves?


eBay, or here on the forum For Sale subsection are good places to start.


----------



## scags

Thanks dark! I will start looking.


----------



## newbieplanter

Jaggedfury said:


> I've been getting alot of messages about certain type of Valves to use. If you find something that resemble this type of On and Off Valve, it will work. I wouldn't use any of the other Mini On and Off Valves that are on [Ebay Link Removed] The On and Off Valve should be about 4 inches long. This is another one of my setup, but I decided not to use a gauge on it. So it's just capped off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hope that helps alot better.


I can only find a A-42 needle valve will it still work?


----------



## Darkblade48

newbieplanter said:


> I can only find a A-42 needle valve will it still work?


Rather than get an industrial type needle valve, you would be best off getting a finer needle valve that can control CO2 flow rate to a higher degree. 

Without a needle valve that has fine control, you will be constantly fighting a floating flow rate, not to mention that the slightest shift will cause your flow rate to fluctuate.


----------



## h0meless

How well does that paintball tank work, flyinghellfish? I was checking them out since apparently they'll help sort of prevent end of tank dump, but I hear that some of them leak?


FlyingHellFish said:


> Since you guys already have the paintball tanks, wouldn't it be more logical to just buy those 80 dollars Aquatek?
> 
> OR if you want to go the pure sexy paintball way, you can do this:


----------



## newbieplanter

FlyingHellFish said:


> Since you guys already have the paintball tanks, wouldn't it be more logical to just buy those 80 dollars Aquatek?
> 
> OR if you want to go the pure sexy paintball way, you can do this:


Is there plans for this set up some where I'm missing?


----------



## newbieplanter

Darkblade48 said:


> Rather than get an industrial type needle valve, you would be best off getting a finer needle valve that can control CO2 flow rate to a higher degree.
> 
> Without a needle valve that has fine control, you will be constantly fighting a floating flow rate, not to mention that the slightest shift will cause your flow rate to fluctuate.


I got some Milwaukee regulator and I'm in the process of winning a reg from a guy who was doin planted tanks so it should have everything I need. Besides the fitment to the paintball tank which I have. This whole CO2 is becoming a problem and I haven't even set it up yet? Thanks for any info tho.


----------



## newbieplanter

Darkblade48 said:


> Rather than get an industrial type needle valve, you would be best off getting a finer needle valve that can control CO2 flow rate to a higher degree.
> 
> Without a needle valve that has fine control, you will be constantly fighting a floating flow rate, not to mention that the slightest shift will cause your flow rate to fluctuate.


This is one that I won so far.
It's a Smith Eqipment CGA320 medium duty.
Not Milwaukee sorry!

http://i855.photobucket.com/albums/...85D658-12886-000016915362D912_zps95249374.jpg


----------



## Darkblade48

The Smith regulator looks fine. Take off any extra fittings and add on the necessary fittings for your needle valve and solenoid (if you wish to have one) and you'll be done, since you already have the paintball adapter.


----------



## newbieplanter

Darkblade48 said:


> The Smith regulator looks fine. Take off any extra fittings and add on the necessary fittings for your needle valve and solenoid (if you wish to have one) and you'll be done, since you already have the paintball adapter.


Is it easy to hook solenoids up to a regulator that has none? After your explanation a cloud has been lifted! Thanks.


----------



## Darkblade48

newbieplanter said:


> Is it easy to hook solenoids up to a regulator that has none? After your explanation a cloud has been lifted! Thanks.


Yes, it is no different than attaching a needle valve.


----------



## newbieplanter

Darkblade48 said:


> Yes, it is no different than attaching a needle valve.


Now to do some research to get one Thanks for the help!


----------



## newbieplanter

Darkblade48 said:


> Yes, it is no different than attaching a needle valve.


Ok I found 2 eBay can u take a look an tell me if any one of them will work the smith regulator I showed u?


----------



## Darkblade48

newbieplanter said:


> Ok I found 2 eBay can u take a look an tell me if any one of them will work the smith regulator I showed u?


Please do a bit of research yourself first. 

I do not want a recurrence of last time, where you just kept sending links to items for me to check.


----------



## newbieplanter

Darkblade48 said:


> Please do a bit of research yourself first.
> 
> I do not want a recurrence of last time, where you just kept sending links to items for me to check.


No prob. I bought it anyway thanks.


----------



## newbieplanter

Anyone here know anything about expired paintball tanks? And what's the life expectancy of a new tank/tanks?


----------



## Rev2eight

Paintball tanks typically expire 5yrs from the date of manufacture. I've been told it's probably more cost effective to simply buy a new tank, rather than getting it hydro tested.


----------



## creekbottom

I just did this this week! I thought I had a crazy good deal on a used paintball tank - I forgot about hydro dates - It's expired. Still had some gas in it so I at least got some use out of it lol. Called the shop and they gave me a discount on a new bottle, oh and the O ring on top the bottle is new. The old ring on the old bottle was shot. All of it could be replaced and re hydro tested but it is cheaper to go buy a new bottle.


----------



## FlyingHellFish

Darkblade48 said:


> Please do a bit of research yourself first.
> 
> I do not want a recurrence of last time, where you just kept sending links to items for me to check.


Hahahahhaha


----------



## newbieplanter

FlyingHellFish said:


> Hahahahhaha


I know funny huh?


----------



## newbieplanter

I got two tanks expired


----------



## creekbottom

If you're thinking of getting them hydro tested, find out where the paintball shop gets them tested and take them there yourself. The retail store most likely won't hydro test, they just send them out and charge you extra for it lol.


----------



## newbieplanter

creekbottom said:


> If you're thinking of getting them hydro tested, find out where the paintball shop gets them tested and take them there yourself. The retail store most likely won't hydro test, they just send them out and charge you extra for it lol.


No have no idea what to do with them yet may just throw them out, it's funny tho cuz they were still in a sealed pkg never used at all, but they still wount fill em that's so dumb and even a 5lb tank has the same life span


----------



## FlyingHellFish

In the very slim chance of the cylinders not working, I think those guys just won't take the risk filling your tank. Look at it from their view, they have a line up of people wanting them to fill Co2 tanks, they won't put their license on the line for your cylinder. 

You can just buy a new 12 oz or larger, see how it works and get some experience from it. Then move on to a bigger tank, it's the most logical thing to to do.

And yes, I am ashamed to reveal how muchI laughed. 

If you still got questions, post them here, I'll give it a go.


----------



## newbieplanter

FlyingHellFish said:


> In the very slim chance of the cylinders not working, I think those guys just won't take the risk filling your tank. Look at it from their view, they have a line up of people wanting them to fill Co2 tanks, they won't put their license on the line for your cylinder.
> 
> You can just buy a new 12 oz or larger, see how it works and get some experience from it. Then move on to a bigger tank, it's the most logical thing to to do.
> 
> And yes, I am ashamed to reveal how muchI laughed.
> 
> If you still got questions, post them here, I'll give it a go.


I'm still gonna get the 20-24oz no doubt about that I only have a 20gal and a 5.5 right now but when I do my 55+ or a 90gal ill be looking to get the 5lb tank to run my 20 an 55+. 

The questions I had were on the regulator which I think is the hardest part of tha whole system if u never messed with one before but anyway I posted earlier question about this DIY one and got no answer like always but anyway I just went an bought what I felt was a good one then got a solieniod for about $20 of eBay of what I thought was a good one too anything else ill holla tho! Thanks


----------



## newbieplanter

FlyingHellFish said:


> In the very slim chance of the cylinders not working, I think those guys just won't take the risk filling your tank. Look at it from their view, they have a line up of people wanting them to fill Co2 tanks, they won't put their license on the line for your cylinder.
> 
> You can just buy a new 12 oz or larger, see how it works and get some experience from it. Then move on to a bigger tank, it's the most logical thing to to do.
> 
> And yes, I am ashamed to reveal how muchI laughed.
> 
> If you still got questions, post them here, I'll give it a go.


For the needle valve should I go with a 1/8" or 1/4" hose fittings?
Or does the size of the aquarium determain the size hose fittings?


----------



## FlyingHellFish

^ You should get the same size tubing they have in the pet store, just in case you need to grab some. You can also get it at Home depot or other hardware stores.

I personally really like the polyurethane tubing but some might disagree and say it leaks Co2. Not going get into that crazy argument. The size is 1/8" ID x 1/4" OD with a 1/16" but to make sure, just look at it. I was in a welding store and I told them 1/8 and they mix up the size thinking it was OD, but you know, they're cool and just re-cut the new one.

If you like glossy, colour, and being stiff, I suggest Polyurethane. Glossy shinny red, uhm uhm uhm. 










Forgot to mention, you might want to add a check valve that leads into the tank. You can use the common tubing which bends and twist with no effort. I got black to hide it behind the filter.


----------



## Darkblade48

newbieplanter said:


> For the needle valve should I go with a 1/8" or 1/4" hose fittings?
> Or does the size of the aquarium determain the size hose fittings?


Either is fine. What you decide will determine what tubing you will have to buy. 

If you already have a particular sized tubing, then you may want your needle valve to match up so that you don't have to buy more tubing.


----------



## newbieplanter

FlyingHellFish said:


> ^ You should get the same size tubing they have in the pet store, just in case you need to grab some. You can also get it at Home depot or other hardware stores.
> 
> I personally really like the polyurethane tubing but some might disagree and say it leaks Co2. Not going get into that crazy argument. The size is 1/8" ID x 1/4" OD with a 1/16" but to make sure, just look at it. I was in a welding store and I told them 1/8 and they mix up the size thinking it was OD, but you know, they're cool and just re-cut the new one.
> 
> If you like glossy, colour, and being stiff, I suggest Polyurethane. Glossy shinny red, uhm uhm uhm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Forgot to mention, you might want to add a check valve that leads into the tank. You can use the common tubing which bends and twist with no effort. I got black to hide it behind the filter.


Wow that is some set up nice, thanks.


----------



## newbieplanter

Darkblade48 said:


> Either is fine. What you decide will determine what tubing you will have to buy.
> 
> If you already have a particular sized tubing, then you may want your needle valve to match up so that you don't have to buy more tubing.


Thank u sir for chiming in there I found a nice needle valve for about $30 that's not to bad almost in my now!


----------



## FlyingHellFish

What needle valve did you end up getting?


----------



## newbieplanter

FlyingHellFish said:


> What needle valve did you end up getting?


I didn't get it yet but I'm considering one of these.

This one for a DIY set up.
http://i855.photobucket.com/albums/...86F0E7-15642-00001BC7B8479845_zps9fccb532.jpg

This was the first one I came across.
http://i855.photobucket.com/albums/...12F819-15642-00001BC7B9ED4E09_zps0734b096.jpg

I'm leaning more towards one of these.
http://i855.photobucket.com/albums/...E00CBE-15642-00001BC7BDC56437_zps6a35e1bb.jpg

http://i855.photobucket.com/albums/...EF42C2-15642-00001BC7BD1A0904_zpsb747ac4b.jpg


----------



## Darkblade48

The last two might be good, depending on their Cv values.

They use tube adapters though, so you may want NPT adapters if you do not want to run the needle valve inline.


----------



## newbieplanter

Darkblade48 said:


> The last two might be good, depending on their Cv values.
> 
> They use tube adapters though, so you may want NPT adapters if you do not want to run the needle valve inline.


What's a good range to be in? I have two I'm bidding on that are 0.35?


----------



## Darkblade48

newbieplanter said:


> What's a good range to be in? I have two I'm bidding on that are 0.35?


That is very high; a good number to aim around is 0.03.


----------



## newbieplanter

Darkblade48 said:


> That is very high; a good number to aim around is 0.03.


Would something like 0.04 be to high also? 
I found one that said 0.04-0.16 does that mean its adjustable?
Would it be better to get a valve with female hook ups instead of the compression fittings like the ones in the pics I posted? 

Thanks for the help I thought a regulator came with this part an all I had to add was the solieniod, good part is I'm a lot closer to being done or to just needing a full tank.


----------



## Darkblade48

newbieplanter said:


> Would something like 0.04 be to high also?
> I found one that said 0.04-0.16 does that mean its adjustable?
> Would it be better to get a valve with female hook ups instead of the compression fittings like the ones in the pics I posted?
> 
> Thanks for the help I thought a regulator came with this part an all I had to add was the solieniod, good part is I'm a lot closer to being done or to just needing a full tank.


For smaller aquariums, that Cv range may not be suitable, as it may allow too much gas to flow. 

You can get whatever fittings you want; some people like compression fittings, while others like NPT fittings. It depends on what you are using them for, there is no "better" option.


----------



## newbieplanter

Darkblade48 said:


> For smaller aquariums, that Cv range may not be suitable, as it may allow too much gas to flow.
> 
> You can get whatever fittings you want; some people like compression fittings, while others like NPT fittings. It depends on what you are using them for, there is no "better" option.


Now the Cv, would a 55+ gal be concidered to small for that level of Cv? ( 0.04+)


----------



## DefStatic

This blows, no pun intended. I just gave away my two CO2 Paintball tanks I had a few months ago LOL.


----------



## newbieplanter

*Regulator*

Well I got my regulator and the hookup for the tank is on the right it has HP on the back now on the right it has a smaller hookup for a hose I guess this one has LP on it. I take it these mean High Pressure an Low Pressure. Where would I hookup the needle valve to with the bubble counter? You see if I hook into the LP port with the needle valve the bubble counter will be side ways making it useless. Can I switch around the gauges to the right ports,(LP n HP) so when I hookup the needle valve the bubble counter will be straight up n down?

http://i855.photobucket.com/albums/...9F39DAA8-818-000001A65A248B79_zpsd7762c1a.jpg


----------



## Darkblade48

newbieplanter said:


> Well I got my regulator and the hookup for the tank is on the right it has HP on the back now on the right it has a smaller hookup for a hose I guess this one has LP on it. I take it these mean High Pressure an Low Pressure.


If looking at your regulator right side up (not upside down), the right hand side with the CGA320 nut and nipple is the high pressure inlet, and the low pressure outlet is at the 7 o'clock position.



newbieplanter said:


> Where would I hookup the needle valve to with the bubble counter? You see if I hook into the LP port with the needle valve the bubble counter will be side ways making it useless.


On the low pressure outlet...

You can use elbows so that a mountable bubble counter can be used.



newbieplanter said:


> Can I switch around the gauges to the right ports,(LP n HP) so when I hookup the needle valve the bubble counter will be straight up n down?


I am not sure what you are proposing here. How would switching the gauges around do anything? In any case, the needle valve can only go in the low pressure outlet, not the high pressure inlet, the high pressure gauge port, nor the low pressure gauge port.


----------



## newbieplanter

What's the difference between 2 n 3 way solieniods with 2 position?

If I get a solieniod with co2/air hose hookups I can change those out for brass fittings or just mt my needle valve on one side and then mt it to the regulator on the other side without the hose right?

If u look in the pic the solieniod has compression fittings for a hose on each end.

http://i855.photobucket.com/albums/...EBC2ADD9-365-0000008065197942_zps4ad998d2.jpg


----------



## Darkblade48

newbieplanter said:


> What's the difference between 2 n 3 way solieniods with 2 position?


Google is your friend.

http://www.solenoidsolutionsinc.com/solenoid-valves/



newbieplanter said:


> If I get a solieniod with co2/air hose hookups I can change those out for brass fittings or just mt my needle valve on one side and then mt it to the regulator on the other side without the hose right?
> 
> If u look in the pic the solieniod has compression fittings for a hose on each end.


You can replace the compression fittings with brass fittings if you want. You can also use the compression fittings that come with that solenoid, but you will have to run some tubing between parts, which may not look as nice.


----------



## Wald-o

*Paintball Co2 Injection DIY (My Setup)*

Passing by to thank Jaggedfury and show my Co2 tank setup. I just followed his instructions.

-20 oz. Co2 tank (Amazon 21$)
-ASA Valve (Ebay 15$)
-Swagelok and (Ebay ~20$)
-Gas Tube Parts (Local Plumbing Store ~10$)
-Connectors and tubing ( Home Depot 2$, 2$, 5$)
-Teflon (had some laying around)


----------



## newbieplanter

Wald-o said:


> Passing by to thank Jaggedfury and show my Co2 tank setup. I just followed his instructions.
> 
> -20 oz. Co2 tank (Amazon 21$)
> -ASA Valve (Ebay 15$)
> -Swagelok and (Ebay ~20$)
> -Gas Tube Parts (Local Plumbing Store ~10$)
> -Connectors and tubing ( Home Depot 2$, 2$, 5$)
> -Teflon (had some laying around)


Saweeeeet set up man looks great. Do u have the item number for the needle valve?

SS-OVM2-A looks a little better although tha Cv is a little high.

The one thing I'm thinking is if a solieniod can be hooked to this DIY set up, but anywho let us know how she's working for ya?


----------



## Wald-o

newbieplanter said:


> Saweeeeet set up man looks great. Do u have the item number for the needle valve?


Swagelok B-1RS4 is the needle valve you see in the picture.


----------



## scags

Hi all!
So I looked up Waldo's needle valve on eBay- it's listed as only having a cv of .38 which from what I understand is way too high for a small aquarium. You would need something with finer adjustments. 
But looking online I noticed most high pressure valves don't even list cv. 
How are you supposed to tell what the cv is on most valves?

And I'm interested in Waldo's setup- how well does it work? Can you get a nice 2-3bpm? I have the same exact setup minus that valve.


----------



## creekbottom

Probably the best way would be to take the part number and go to the Swagelok site and find the PDF.


----------



## Darkblade48

scags said:


> And I'm interested in Waldo's setup- how well does it work? Can you get a nice 2-3bpm? I have the same exact setup minus that valve.


For 2-3 bubbles per minute (1 bubble every 20-30 seconds), you will need a much finer metering valve.


----------



## scags

Darkblade48 said:


> For 2-3 bubbles per minute (1 bubble every 20-30 seconds), you will need a much finer metering valve.


Thanks Darkblade!
Thats what I was assuming which is why I asked.

Thanks creekbottom, I was hoping to avoid the pdf route. Makes me wonder why the cv is not readily available on many of the valves I see online- maybe not as important for most applications I guess.
Plus these valves are rather sparse on [Ebay Link Removed] And the ones that are on there are pretty vague about the details.


----------



## Wald-o

scags said:


> For that type of precision you should look into the high pressure needle valves, which are the swagelok 31 series.
> Those have a flow coefficient starting at 0.04, you will pay top dollar for that type of valve. Which doesn't make sense when we are going this route to save money practically.
> I'm curious to know what you want 2-3 bubble per minute, thats equivalent to having no Co2 (unless you have a 1 gallon tank or less)


----------



## Hilde

Wald-o said:


> scags said:
> 
> 
> 
> For that type of precision you should look into the high pressure needle valves, which are the swagelok 31 series. You will pay top dollar for that type of valve. Which doesn't make sense when we are going this route to save money practically.
> 
> 
> 
> Another way to save money is to use a Co2 pressurized kit which uses citric acid + sodium bicarbonate in pepsi bottles.
Click to expand...


----------



## newbieplanter

Wald-o said:


> scags said:
> 
> 
> 
> For that type of precision you should look into the high pressure needle valves, which are the swagelok 31 series.
> Those have a flow coefficient starting at 0.04, you will pay top dollar for that type of valve. Which doesn't make sense when we are going this route to save money practically.
> I'm curious to know what you want 2-3 bubble per minute, thats equivalent to having no Co2 (unless you have a 1 gallon tank or less)
> 
> 
> 
> My thing is if you can take the valve (B-1RS4) he has an get the 2-3 bubbles what's the problem?
> 
> 
> Hilde: it will cost more in the long run to keep doin the DIY yeast an sugar I only know cuz that's what I'm running now I think it stinks but it does work and when u have a bigger tank u need more 1-2L bottles so it wount look good next to your tank its also not a good quality I think anyway plus the mixes aren't as consistent as a CO2, regulator set up.
> 
> Either way your gonna pay that's why I say go for what you know!
Click to expand...


----------



## Bettatail

sometimes I think this thread needs to be locked and let it sink, don't know if anyone agree.

this paintball flow type valve setup is too much trouble to play with, 800 psi is on the "needle valve" that use for water and with crap precision. There is not too much information or caution on what psi rating of the fittings or valves to be used. most of the water "needle valves" and brass fittings I see in this thread are 300 max working pressure that use on water line..... 

It is very excited to have a such paintball setup built, and post pictures, but how many of you keep using it for more than a year?


----------



## jamesyu

I have used this setup for 2 years running and mine is more primative than that, though the only thing i'm upgrading is the co2 cannister from a 20oz to a 5lbs one.


----------



## newbieplanter

jamesyu said:


> I have used this setup for 2 years running and mine is more primative than that, though the only thing i'm upgrading is the co2 cannister from a 20oz to a 5lbs one.


There it is I knew someone had it for a while with no problems! Oh yea!
Keep on goin.


----------



## ryannguyen

What is the cheapest Paintball Co2 ASA On/Off Valve 2 Threads (Gauge, Needle Valve inputs) that y'all are using?


----------



## newbieplanter

newbieplanter said:


> Saweeeeet set up man looks great. Do u have the item number for the needle valve?
> 
> SS-OVM2-A looks a little better although tha Cv is a little high.
> 
> The one thing I'm thinking is if a solieniod can be hooked to this DIY set up, but anywho let us know how she's working for ya?


What type of gas tube is that, do u have a part number for it something I can google?


----------



## FlyingHellFish

jamesyu said:


> I have used this setup for 2 years running and mine is more primative than that, though the only thing i'm upgrading is the co2 cannister from a 20oz to a 5lbs one.


Damn! Pictures please, I want to see how it looks.


----------



## tipsy mcstager

after useing the DIY yeast thing on one of my tanks (works very well) thank you. i seen this, and well i wanted a "real" CO2 set up for a new
75Gal. but i splurged a little got the 20oz tank paintball tank (free one year refills):bounce: 
$22.50



















a Milwaukee Instruments Solenoid Valve, CO2 Regulator with Bubble Counter 
$89.99











and a AQUATEK CO2 Paintball Tank CGA 320 Adapter 
tank adapter
$16.99 (a bit hight, but good reviews)











can't wait for the Regulator and Adapter it to get here, so i can playroud:


----------



## newbieplanter

*Thanks!*

Thanks for the info here's my set up soon to be running just need a BC n CO2 Hose!
Sorry so anxious forgot pic.


----------



## tipsy mcstager

nice.......:bounce:

got mine hooked up, i was sure to follow the follow the directions for the regulator, and things worked well.

no reason to lock this thread!:thumbsdow 

"jamesyu,I have used this setup for 2 years running and mine is more primative than that, though the only thing i'm upgrading is the co2 cannister from a 20oz to a 5lbs one."

*it has lead* *me* *to* ask questions, and hunt around on my own for parts. i don't need no super duper dual stage regulator, with a 50-80 dollar needle valve! 
i'm into a good setup, for around 120$, thanks to this thread:thumbsup:

and it sure beats changing yeast bottles every two weeks!!!!!!!


----------



## newbieplanter

tipsy mcstager said:


> nice.......:bounce:
> 
> got mine hooked up, i was sure to follow the follow the directions for the regulator, and things worked well.
> 
> no reason to lock this thread!:thumbsdow
> 
> "jamesyu,I have used this setup for 2 years running and mine is more primative than that, though the only thing i'm upgrading is the co2 cannister from a 20oz to a 5lbs one."
> 
> *it has lead* *me* *to* ask questions, and hunt around on my own for parts. i don't need no super duper dual stage regulator, with a 50-80 dollar needle valve!
> i'm into a good setup, for around 120$, thanks to this thread:thumbsup:
> 
> and it sure beats changing yeast bottles every two weeks!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> You


Nice u beat me to tha punch tho I was gonna add the solieniod too darn. It looks saweeet tho. I'm gonna keep the little on/off valve switch NV and add a solenoid .


----------



## stealthypotatoes

I Did this method and I am having a hard time controlling the bubbles into my tank 
its either a lot or none 
Is there a way I can fix this? is there a different valve similar to the ones fluval use?


----------



## newbieplanter

stealthypotatoes said:


> I Did this method and I am having a hard time controlling the bubbles into my tank
> its either a lot or none
> Is there a way I can fix this? is there a different valve similar to the ones fluval use?


Sounds like You have the same problem I have, u need a bubble counter. On my way to get one now. The only thing I can say is DIY bubble counter if u don't have one.


----------



## creekbottom

Sounds like you need a better needle valve.


----------



## Redtail84

I just set up my paintball system using the exact steps in the OP. the needle valve is a little hard to dial in, but once it's set it seems to run really well. Love having a pressurized system on a budget.


----------



## newbieplanter

Redtail84 said:


> I just set up my paintball system using the exact steps in the OP. the needle valve is a little hard to dial in, but once it's set it seems to run really well. Love having a pressurized system on a budget.


Can we see some pics?


----------



## stealthypotatoes

newbieplanter said:


> Sounds like You have the same problem I have, u need a bubble counter. On my way to get one now. The only thing I can say is DIY bubble counter if u don't have one.


i actually do have a bubble counter its just really hard to get the perfect amount of bubbles into the tank


----------



## newbieplanter

stealthypotatoes said:


> i actually do have a bubble counter its just really hard to get the perfect amount of bubbles into the tank


Yea it's hard with those cheap needle valves but doable try just the hose without diffuser and count bubbles once u get the corect amt or close to it leav it runing and put diffuser on an don't touch it. Good luck.


----------



## stealthypotatoes

newbieplanter said:


> Yea it's hard with those cheap needle valves but doable try just the hose without diffuser and count bubbles once u get the corect amt or close to it leav it runing and put diffuser on an don't touch it. Good luck.


i used the needle valve that he posted in the desc 
do you know of any better ones?


----------



## newbieplanter

stealthypotatoes said:


> i used the needle valve that he posted in the desc
> do you know of any better ones?


Yea u can use one that other aquarists use when they run co2 with a 5lb tank they cost more but u have no problem getting the right setting.


----------



## stealthypotatoes

newbieplanter said:


> Yea u can use one that other aquarists use when they run co2 with a 5lb tank they cost more but u have no problem getting the right setting.


Do you have a link to any? 
Any recommended brands?


----------



## Darkblade48

stealthypotatoes said:


> Do you have a link to any?
> Any recommended brands?


Please take a look at my Primer to Pressurized CO2, linked in my signature below. I go over some common brands in terms of needle/metering valves.

Bettatail also has an excellent guide that lists various brands as well as model numbers for needle/metering valves that can be used.


----------



## stealthypotatoes

Darkblade48 said:


> Please take a look at my Primer to Pressurized CO2, linked in my signature below. I go over some common brands in terms of needle/metering valves.
> 
> Bettatail also has an excellent guide that lists various brands as well as model numbers for needle/metering valves that can be used.


thanks 
and are the swaglok valves good? I was planning to buy that but I couldnt find it locally so i just bought one from home depot


----------



## Redtail84

newbieplanter said:


> Can we see some pics?


Can't figure out how to post more than one picture from my phone so here is a little collage. This is a 20oz tank, ASA on/off valve with gauge, needle valve from Lowes, and DIY bubble counter. With tubing and the and glass diffuser, this setup cost me less than $50.


----------



## stealthypotatoes

Redtail84 said:


> Can't figure out how to post more than one picture from my phone so here is a little collage. This is a 20oz tank, ASA on/off valve with gauge, needle valve from Lowes, and DIY bubble counter. With tubing and the and glass diffuser, this setup cost me less than $50.


Do you have a problem adjusting the bubbles with that bubble counter because I have the same one and I'm having hard time adjusting


----------



## FlipsideJohn




----------



## Darkblade48

stealthypotatoes said:


> thanks
> and are the swaglok valves good? I was planning to buy that but I couldnt find it locally so i just bought one from home depot


Swagelok is a good name brand, but you need to pick a metering valve that has a good Cv for our purposes.

The Home Depot needle valve does not really work, since it cannot control the CO2 flow rate accurately. Some people may have some luck, but the smallest change in the needle valve position can lead to a large increase or decrease in CO2.


----------



## Bettatail

tipsy mcstager said:


> nice.......:bounce:
> 
> got mine hooked up, i was sure to follow the follow the directions for the regulator, and things worked well.
> 
> no reason to lock this thread!:thumbsdow
> 
> "jamesyu,I have used this setup for 2 years running and mine is more primative than that, though the only thing i'm upgrading is the co2 cannister from a 20oz to a 5lbs one."
> 
> *it has lead* *me* *to* ask questions, and hunt around on my own for parts. i don't need no super duper dual stage regulator, with a 50-80 dollar needle valve!
> i'm into a good setup, for around 120$, thanks to this thread:thumbsup:
> 
> and it sure beats changing yeast bottles every two weeks!!!!!!!



Do you realize what you have is a TRUE PRESSURE REGULATOR setup?


Nothing wrong with the setup you built, but it is not the flow control valve setup that this thread design for, and your system is within Darkblade48's domain, not Jaggedfury's


----------



## Bettatail

jamesyu said:


> I have used this setup for 2 years running and mine is more primative than that, though the only thing i'm upgrading is the co2 cannister from a 20oz to a 5lbs one.


need to show a picture, let me see what you have, I want to know it is a a flow control valve or a true pressure regulator attached, to your paintball tank.


Jaggedfury's paintball co2 setup is not a pressure regulated valve but a flow control valve, a solenoid can not be attached or something will burst.

People PM me all the time want to attach a solenoid to the flow control valve design, my answer is "NO", unless it is true pressure regulator. There was a member bugging me with many pms, want a postbody kit to attach to the ASA valve!!!!, explain many times and eventually send him a high pressure, high precision swagelok metering valve so he can attach this valve to his ASA on/off valve, hopefully he likes the nice metering valve, but a timer via solenoid control is not possible.

here is some pictures of my personal paintball setup, it is the true pressurized regulator attached, so a solenoid control is possible.
IT IS NOT JAGGEDFURY's FLOW CONTROL VALVE DESIGN, don't be mistaken.


----------



## stealthypotatoes

Darkblade48 said:


> Swagelok is a good name brand, but you need to pick a metering valve that has a good Cv for our purposes.
> 
> The Home Depot needle valve does not really work, since it cannot control the CO2 flow rate accurately. Some people may have some luck, but the smallest change in the needle valve position can lead to a large increase or decrease in CO2.


so do you have a reccommended model number?


----------



## Redtail84

stealthypotatoes said:


> Do you have a problem adjusting the bubbles with that bubble counter because I have the same one and I'm having hard time adjusting


I assume you mean the needle valve. I do have some issues with it. Fortunately, it seems to be kind of stuck on the setting that is about 1-2 bps which keeps my drop checker lime green to yellow. 

I also don't think the gauge is entirely accurate, but it gives me a general idea of where my pressure is. I will probably upgrade the needle valve and gauge eventually, but it does the trick for right now.



> Jaggedfury's paintball co2 setup is not a pressure regulated valve but a flow control valve, a solenoid can not be attached or something will burst.


I had wondered about this, and I thought it not be a good idea. I just run an air stone on a timer at night to off gas the CO2.


----------



## Aulonocara_Freak

Looks cool and useful, but scary as well.


----------



## Darkblade48

stealthypotatoes said:


> so do you have a reccommended model number?


As I mentioned, please take a look at my Primer to Pressurized CO2 for needle/metering valve part numbers. In addition, Bettatail has a thread that also provides the model numbers for a wide variety of usable valves.


----------



## stealthypotatoes

Darkblade48 said:


> As I mentioned, please take a look at my Primer to Pressurized CO2 for needle/metering valve part numbers. In addition, Bettatail has a thread that also provides the model numbers for a wide variety of usable valves.


I did check that out
But you didnt list any model #'s


----------



## DanielAG

Here's a question....i recently stumbled onto this thread and found it pretty interesing...but finding certain supplies was proving rather difficult.... i was wondering if this setup would work:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/203012...roductId=203012868&R=203012868#specifications


----------



## sukebe

I agree. This is not safe. 



Bettatail said:


> sometimes I think this thread needs to be locked and let it sink, don't know if anyone agree.
> 
> this paintball flow type valve setup is too much trouble to play with, 800 psi is on the "needle valve" that use for water and with crap precision. There is not too much information or caution on what psi rating of the fittings or valves to be used. most of the water "needle valves" and brass fittings I see in this thread are 300 max working pressure that use on water line.....


----------



## Darkblade48

DanielAG said:


> Here's a question....i recently stumbled onto this thread and found it pretty interesing...but finding certain supplies was proving rather difficult.... i was wondering if this setup would work:
> 
> http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/203012...roductId=203012868&R=203012868#specifications


I would not recommend this, since it uses a flow gauge instead of a manometer (difficult to determine how much gas you are pushing). There are other things such as needing to replace the flow valve with a needle/metering valve, and perhaps even replacing the solenoid (depends what the specifications on it are).


----------



## tipsy mcstager

Bettatail said:


> Do you realize what you have is a TRUE PRESSURE REGULATOR setup?
> 
> 
> Nothing wrong with the setup you built, but it is not the flow control valve setup that this thread design for, and your system is within Darkblade48's domain, not Jaggedfury's


 
YES!
my point was not locking this thread down. 

"*it has lead* *me* *to* ask questions, and hunt around on my own for parts. 
i'm into a good setup, for around 120$, thanks to this thread:thumbsup:"

and also cost!


----------



## newbieplanter

stealthypotatoes said:


> thanks
> and are the swaglok valves good? I was planning to buy that but I couldnt find it locally so i just bought one from home depot


http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=148509&highlight=
Take a look here. Also this one u can get from eBay 2F-H3L-V-SS-TC ou gonna have to order one no local buys on these badboys.
Ideal valve 52-1-12 or 52-1-11


----------



## pastert33

Can you guys recommend a gauge for a 20oz paintball setup? Also, how will I know that the tank will need refilling?


----------



## UberSquid

I took this setup a step further by adding the front pressure regulator from an Autococker paintball gun. I haven't measured the output pressure yet but it makes the setup a whole lit more controllable than trying to just use a valve. I had to drill out one end, tapped it and the secured my valve with JB Weld. Its been running on my ten gallon for a couple days now and has held steady at one bps. 

Best part... it only cost me $5 for the regulator off eBay!


----------



## newbieplanter

What does it mean when u bring your bottle in for a refill get it home n now the $30 on/ off switch which has been good for 2-3 months is now letting CO2 out the little holes the factory drills for maybe relief does this'd an I gotta buy a new on/off valve everytime u fill up????? 

I think the bottle/co2 tank is filled to much too. I put my regulator on it and that's workin fine, I just don't like my reg sittin sideways but its all good for now.



UberSquid said:


> I took this setup a step further by adding the front pressure regulator from an Autococker paintball gun. I haven't measured the output pressure yet but it makes the setup a whole lit more controllable than trying to just use a valve. I had to drill out one end, tapped it and the secured my valve with JB Weld. Its been running on my ten gallon for a couple days now and has held steady at one bps.
> 
> Best part... it only cost me $5 for the regulator off eBay!


One BPS so u have no CO2 in your tank get a drop checker an you'll see. I wanna see pics of this setup? Also what size tank do u have?


----------



## UberSquid

newbieplanter said:


> One BPS so u have no CO2 in your tank get a drop checker an you'll see.


Actually I have two drop checkers at different kdh reference points to get a more accurate reading. I also monitor Ph closely. I normally run a bit higher.


----------



## Darkblade48

newbieplanter said:


> What does it mean when u bring your bottle in for a refill get it home n now the $30 on/ off switch which has been good for 2-3 months is now letting CO2 out the little holes the factory drills for maybe relief does this'd an I gotta buy a new on/off valve everytime u fill up?????


The bottle may be overfilled.

The on/off valve may also be compromised; it is, after all, holding back the full pressure of the compressed CO2.


----------



## UberSquid

Your bottle isnt overfilled and the valve is fine, it's just the o rings on the bottle. Go where you got it filled and pick up a new package. You get several for five bucks and it will fix your problems.


----------



## newbieplanter

UberSquid said:


> Actually I have two drop checkers at different kdh reference points to get a more accurate reading. I also monitor Ph closely. I normally run a bit higher.





UberSquid said:


> Your bottle isnt overfilled and the valve is fine, it's just the o rings on the bottle. Go where you got it filled and pick up a new package. You get several for five bucks and it will fix your problems.


I changed it.


----------



## Kworker

I set mine up last night, I have to refill my co2 tank but I had a little when I put on my setup.. it appears that when I open the tank and have needle valve closed that air comes out from the two holes that would be used to mount the valve onto the gun...but when I open the needle it stops. I tried researching this but nothing.


----------



## Darkblade48

I am unsure what needle valve you are using, but most needle valves are not designed for operation under fully closed conditions.

Doing so may inadvertently damage your needle valve.


----------



## Kworker

Nevermind, it was my co2 tank, outdated needed to be hydroed but I just bought a new one and got it all working. Right now I have my line fed into powerhead but got to order a diffuser. Not a fan of amount of flow in the tank. Right now its a 150ish gph ph with a aquaclear50. Ehh


----------



## assasin6547

Is this essentially a prebuilt paintball regulator? 



 Is it decent?

I'm having trouble finding some of the parts, like the ASA on/off and the gauge.


----------



## Apollodore

Hello,
I am French, so don't worry about my english which is not perfect 
I try to make this paintball CO2 system, but I don't know which needle valve I have to choose. Homedepot and Lowe don't exist in my country.
Could someone helps me to find a cheap needle valve to adapt to this valve (I hope the link is going to work)

I can easily buy on :
Aliexpress
Amazon
Ebay
...

I have this store next to my home, do they they have a good valve for my CO2 Kit?


----------



## samwoo2go

swagelok b-orm2 on Ebay



Apollodore said:


> Hello,
> I am French, so don't worry about my english which is not perfect
> I try to make this paintball CO2 system, but I don't know which needle valve I have to choose. Homedepot and Lowe don't exist in my country.
> Could someone helps me to find a cheap needle valve to adapt to this valve (I hope the link is going to work)
> 
> I can easily buy on :
> Aliexpress
> Amazon
> Ebay
> ...
> 
> I have this store next to my home, do they they have a good valve for my CO2 Kit?


----------



## Apollodore

The seller said that this object can't be shipped to France, and even if it could be shipped I think the transport tax will be high..
But thank you for your answer:icon_wink


----------



## samwoo2go

Try bettatail on this forum, price would be a bit higher, but GREAT stuff


----------



## rcs0926

Can anyone tell me if the item in the pics below is an ASA on/off valve with a CO2 gauge already attached? That's what it looks like to me. If that isn't what I need, can anyone point me in the direction of the ASA on/off 2-way valve listed in the OP? Thanks.


----------



## newbieplanter

That's her!





rcs0926 said:


> Can anyone tell me if the item in the pics below is an ASA on/off valve with a CO2 gauge already attached? That's what it looks like to me. If that isn't what I need, can anyone point me in the direction of the ASA on/off 2-way valve listed in the OP? Thanks.


----------



## JasterMake

Check out bay item #170848753794. Looks like this might solve many of the issues with paintball systems. Has anyone tried this regulator?


----------



## newbieplanter

I'm thinking it might be like the watts NV in the beginning of the post, very hard to get 1-3bps out of it. 





rcs0926 said:


> Can anyone tell me if the item in the pics below is an ASA on/off valve with a CO2 gauge already attached? That's what it looks like to me. If that isn't what I need, can anyone point me in the direction of the ASA on/off 2-way valve listed in the OP? Thanks.





JasterMake said:


> Check out bay item #170848753794. Looks like this might solve many of the issues with paintball systems. Has anyone tried this regulator?


----------



## cmathews95

just set my system up with the asa in the pic above. Working great so far.
Quick questions, when the guage shows the pressure at around 1200 or so, does it take longer to go down then when its at 500. basically, as the psi drops with use does it empty faster.


----------



## Darkblade48

cmathews95 said:


> just set my system up with the asa in the pic above. Working great so far.
> Quick questions, when the guage shows the pressure at around 1200 or so, does it take longer to go down then when its at 500. basically, as the psi drops with use does it empty faster.


When full, the gauge should indicate ~800-1000 PSI. 1200 PSI sounds like it is overfilled (or, the gauge itself is faulty).

Since the CO2 is under pressure, it is in a liquid form within the cylinder. As long as there is liquid CO2 remaining in the cylinder, the pressure gauge will still show ~800-1000 PSI. 

Once there is no liquid CO2 remaining, the indicated pressure will begin to drop. It is at this time you will want to replace/refill your cylinder.


----------



## CT89

Hey Jagged, are you still selling these?

PM me please.


----------



## samwoo2go

Does anyone else have issues with small amounts of CO2 leaking out of that little hole behind the gauge on this unit? 



rcs0926 said:


> Can anyone tell me if the item in the pics below is an ASA on/off valve with a CO2 gauge already attached? That's what it looks like to me. If that isn't what I need, can anyone point me in the direction of the ASA on/off 2-way valve listed in the OP? Thanks.


----------



## Setsuna

Hey guys just wanted to share my video on this thread also. My method is the same thing as this too i guess


----------



## newbieplanter

Setsuna said:


> Hey guys just wanted to share my video on this thread also. My method is the same thing as this too i guess 20z CO2 + Planted Aquarium - YouTube


The plants u got are DHG dwarf hair grass, myrio matt myrio mattogrossensesword. U want your bubble counter to be at 2-3 BPS (bubbles Per Second). That drop checker takes at least a day or so to read the right amt of CO2 in tha tank I have the same but I switched to a different one for that reason. Good Luck with tha set up, I've learned these tanks are like Lays chips u can't have just one because of how many plant sp. they have. I know your like me don't really know the names of tha plants but like how they look in tha tank lol. Just do as much reaserch as possible and you will know everything also ask as many questions as u can think an look to YouTube a lot for vids, in you tube just put planted tanks in the search an a ton of vids will come up. Tanks for your time.


----------



## newbieplanter

samwoo2go said:


> Does anyone else have issues with small amounts of CO2 leaking out of that little hole behind the gauge on this unit?


I did so I changed the little rubber seal on the top of the PB tank an it was fine. I also went with another regulator from the paintball store and have not had the problem ever since.


----------



## Carlin

Holy crap, I can't believe I read this whole thread. Learned alot though Q_Q


----------



## newbieplanter

Carlin said:


> Holy crap, I can't believe I read this whole thread. Learned alot though Q_Q


I hear that this was my first set up now I got a reg I custom built but I still got 2 of these setups running right now 1 on my 5gal and 1 on my 20H gal.


----------



## cmathews95

jagged fury,
can you post a pic of your co2 set up. I was looking through this thread and i couldn't find it. If anyone wants to point me to the right post that would be awesome.
Thanks


----------



## newbieplanter

cmathews95 said:


> jagged fury,
> can you post a pic of your co2 set up. I was looking through this thread and i couldn't find it. If anyone wants to point me to the right post that would be awesome.
> Thanks


I think his set up is on the first page of this post.


----------



## xdang

I've look through all the posts, and I have a leak from the hole behind my gauge and I don't know how to fix it. I accidentally screwed on ASA when the top was screwed down and gas came out and I don't know if this broke something.


----------



## cmathews95

xdang said:


> I've look through all the posts, and I have a leak from the hole behind my gauge and I don't know how to fix it. I accidentally screwed on ASA when the top was screwed down and gas came out and I don't know if this broke something.


This sounds like the degass(this is a safety feature). In this case, try replacing the o-ring in the regulator. The same thing happened to me. After a replaced the o-ring, air stopped leaking.


----------



## xdang

cmathews95 said:


> This sounds like the degass(this is a safety feature). In this case, try replacing the o-ring in the regulator. The same thing happened to me. After a replaced the o-ring, air stopped leaking.


I tried replacing the O-rings twice on the ASA on/off and even on the paintball canister itself. Nothing worked for me. I even re-tefloned the whole needle valve to make sure. Gas somehow just leaks from the gauge hole.


----------



## samwoo2go

xdang said:


> I tried replacing the O-rings twice on the ASA on/off and even on the paintball canister itself. Nothing worked for me. I even re-tefloned the whole needle valve to make sure. Gas somehow just leaks from the gauge hole.


There're 2 small black O rings deep inside the ASA which you can only get to by pulling out the stem. Try replacing those.


----------



## andybodyhome

I installed my regulator on the paintball co2 w/o turning the regulator counter clockwise  and now the needle is staying at 0, what do I do?? please help


----------



## newbieplanter

andybodyhome said:


> I installed my regulator on the paintball co2 w/o turning the regulator counter clockwise  and now the needle is staying at 0, what do I do?? please help


Got a pic of the set up, what reg are u useing?


----------



## andybodyhome

Here it is, I was wondering if you could take off the regulator, turn it counter clockwise and screw it on top of the paintball canister again.. idk lol all new to me


----------



## newbieplanter

andybodyhome said:


> Here it is, I was wondering if you could take off the regulator, turn it counter clockwise and screw it on top of the paintball canister again.. idk lol all new to me


Don't know if u figured it out yet, but yea u can do that. Take off the reg and turn counter clockwise then put back on and turn clockwise and it should give a reading. Make shure the flow/needle valve is in the off position so no gas is flowing through it u wanna adjust that after unless your having a hard time getting 1-3 BPS.


----------



## tinydanger

I sent this message to Jagged_Fury but their inbox was full. Hope someone can answer me anyway! 

...

Hey there, read your article about setting up a paintball co2 set up and noticed you also lived in the sacramento area. I had two questions for you, if you have the time... where is a good place in sacramento to get 24oz. tanks and what is their price range? Also where to fill them..

Also,
posted here: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=499825&highlight=

they offer a paintball set-up sans tank for $50. Would you suggest this? 

Thanks so much, I'm new to the hobby and setting up my first tank and what to cover all my bases while minimizing costs. And I'm unfamiliar with the good stores in our area for this hobby. 

-Jordan


----------



## Jaggedfury

Hey Folks!

I haven't been on much for the past 2 years. Bought a house, lots of renovations and just finally have time to get back to "normal life".

I'll pop in here and there once in a while. I'm glad alot of people are still using the setups, I'm going to start with new tanks as well. Moved into a 2nd new home and it's a new start all over again. 

When I was packaging to move a month ago, I've remember seeing a dozen or so Paintball Co2 setup laying around. Going to break them out and start putting them together to use it. 

I won't be selling anything anymore. I actually took a 1 year break just to do nothing. Don't even want to work full time. Been working 10 years straight just need a break so I took a year's break before I enter back into the work force.

My PM box are often times full, if you need to contact me you can email me at my yahoo address [email protected]

I plan to setup 1-4 aquarium tanks in the next coming months!

Happy planting!


----------



## Hilde

I was wonder if a Dwyer 1/8" Needle Valve would work. It's PSI rating is 6000 thus I feel safer with it.
*
*


----------



## rdmustang1

xdang said:


> I tried replacing the O-rings twice on the ASA on/off and even on the paintball canister itself. Nothing worked for me. I even re-tefloned the whole needle valve to make sure. Gas somehow just leaks from the gauge hole.


I'm having this problem too. A 24oz tank at 1bps and it only lasted about 10 days. I tried replacing the O-ring but am pretty sure that the o-ring has nothing to do with this. My guess is that the gauge is bad but am not sure.

Anyone else have this issue and find a solution?


----------



## Plant_Haus

had this problem once, my tanks were lasting me 3-4 days and i was shocked. it turned out to be the needle valve black plastic ring that is inside. make sure that it is not bent or uneven. just take it all apart and re-tape it and youre good to go.


----------



## newbieplanter

rdmustang1 said:


> I'm having this problem too. A 24oz tank at 1bps and it only lasted about 10 days. I tried replacing the O-ring but am pretty sure that the o-ring has nothing to do with this. My guess is that the gauge is bad but am not sure.
> 
> Anyone else have this issue and find a solution?


I caught all the leaks before I even put it to tha tank. What u can do is put the whole assembly under water with is on this will tell u where all the leaks are an u go through n fix em rather than checkin for problems others might have had n u might not. U can also use some soapy water an spray it on spots where u think tha leak is, if u get bubbles u got a leak.


----------



## rdmustang1

newbieplanter said:


> I caught all the leaks before I even put it to tha tank. What u can do is put the whole assembly under water with is on this will tell u where all the leaks are an u go through n fix em rather than checkin for problems others might have had n u might not. U can also use some soapy water an spray it on spots where u think tha leak is, if u get bubbles u got a leak.


I already did the underwater test and the CO2 is definitely leaking out the hole on the back of the pressure gauge. I also can't get a consistent flow of CO2. It starts fast and then slows down.


----------



## rdmustang1

I think I figured out part of my problem. Academy was not filling the tank much. Pressure was up to 600 PSI but quickly fell to danger level within 1-2 days. I found that I don't use the needle valve but use the on/off valve to control the level of CO2 then it stays much steadier. It also prevents CO2 from escaping through the relief valve in the pressure gauge.

I got my refill this time at Sports Authority and they knew what they were doing. Their first tank wasn't filling my tank so they switched to another and it filled right up. Time will tell but I'm crossing my fingers that I'm done with EOTDs, CO2 leakage and irregular CO2 flow.


----------



## herns

this thread coming to 4 yrs this year and still running!


----------



## rdmustang1

I think I've had it. I can't keep a consistent bubble count with the on/off valve set so low and if I crank it up then it leaks out the pressure relief valve. I tried taking it apart, checking seals and putting it back together but still no go. I ordered a dual stage regulator to go on this but still need a needle valve. I may just go with no CO2 until I can find a deal on a decent needle valve.


----------



## samwoo2go

rdmustang1 said:


> I think I've had it. I can't keep a consistent bubble count with the on/off valve set so low and if I crank it up then it leaks out the pressure relief valve. I tried taking it apart, checking seals and putting it back together but still no go. I ordered a dual stage regulator to go on this but still need a needle valve. I may just go with no CO2 until I can find a deal on a decent needle valve.


Fabco NV-55-18


----------



## rdmustang1

samwoo2go said:


> Fabco NV-55-18


Looking for an inexpensive SS one and Fabco doesn't make them. Plus, $40 is a little more than I want to spend. Wife is already mad that I paid $50 for a SS reg and $30 for a SS solenoid.


----------



## newbieplanter

I just wanna post this here before I bother my CO2 guy with this question. Will it work or will it be too much pressure for the solenoid which is what I think is gonna happen?
I'm gonna put just some hose barbs an run them to the diffusers, for some reason I can't find the check valves that I need to add the bubble counters I know I can just put an extension under the bubble counter etc. My main point of this post is the pressure bein to much for the solenoid. Anyone tried this setup before or even with a single NV an what was the out come?

This is a pic with the hose barbs installed.


----------



## newbieplanter

rdmustang1 said:


> I already did the underwater test and the CO2 is definitely leaking out the hole on the back of the pressure gauge. I also can't get a consistent flow of CO2. It starts fast and then slows down.


U have to try n get the bubble count before u put the hose on the diffuser, n did u try n put teflon tape on the back of the gauge?


----------



## paronaram

Nice idea newbieplanter!
What's the specs on the solenoid?
Paintball tank is 800 psi I think


----------



## Hilde

newbieplanter said:


>


What are those bolt like items on the sides?


----------



## newbieplanter

paronaram said:


> Nice idea newbieplanter!
> What's the specs on the solenoid?
> Paintball tank is 800 psi I think


Yea I found out already it's not gonna work.



Hilde said:


> What are those bolt like items on the sides?


Needle valves.


----------



## Hilde

newbieplanter said:


> Needle valves.


What was the cost of the needle valves and the whole setup?


----------



## paronaram

newbieplanter said:


> Yea I found out already it's not gonna work.


How about you install one more valve between ON/OFF stitch and solenoid.
SMC AS2000 PNEUMATIC INLINE NEEDLE VALVE 1/8" NNB - look up on fleabay
it's rated for up to 1.5Mpa, so it's approximately 2100 psi


----------



## newbieplanter

Hilde said:


> What was the cost of the needle valves and the whole setup?


I got all this stuff seperate for cheap just finding deals here n there for stuff I know I'll need later on.



paronaram said:


> How about you install one more valve between ON/OFF stitch and solenoid.
> SMC AS2000 PNEUMATIC INLINE NEEDLE VALVE 1/8" NNB - look up on fleabay
> it's rated for up to 1.5Mpa, so it's approximately 2100 psi


Oh I see, so it will cut the flow a bit n the solenoid can handle it. That's an ide.

I wonder if I can use a burkert solenoid (6011) I think it is I gotta look up the pressure on it.


----------



## paronaram

burkert solenoids are expensive


----------



## newbieplanter

paronaram said:


> burkert solenoids are expensive


Hey it's all in what u want.


----------



## johnnytrn

Hey guys so I'm piecing this DIY kit together and have a question about this bubble counter off ebay item #191015751523 

Just to be sure I have clear understanding:

Line from needle valve> NON-threaded end on the bubble counter>add water to the bubble counter>line from the THREADED end goes to tank(or diffuser)?

How does the integrated non return valve work?

Sorry for question, very new to this


----------



## newbieplanter

johnnytrn said:


> Hey guys so I'm piecing this DIY kit together and have a question about this bubble counter off ebay item #191015751523
> 
> Just to be sure I have clear understanding:
> 
> Line from needle valve> NON-threaded end on the bubble counter>add water to the bubble counter>line from the THREADED end goes to tank(or diffuser)?
> 
> How does the integrated non return valve work?
> 
> Sorry for question, very new to this


This is correct, the check valve only lets co2 go to tha tank it doesnt let tank water from the tank flow backwards.


----------



## bob_hopfner

I was wondering if this could be scaled down to using 16g co2 cylinders? I have a 1 gal Minibow and not a lot of space around it on my desk at work for a full paintball set up even if I did hide it under my desk. I think I am looking at 1 bubble every 30s or so which leads me to believe I could use a much smaller set up. thanks!


----------



## newbieplanter

bob_hopfner said:


> I was wondering if this could be scaled down to using 16g co2 cylinders? I have a 1 gal Minibow and not a lot of space around it on my desk at work for a full paintball set up even if I did hide it under my desk. I think I am looking at 1 bubble every 30s or so which leads me to believe I could use a much smaller set up. thanks!


Shure u can just look up on either ebay or GLA, intense CO2 regulators an get the adapters to hook the smaller CO2 cartridge.


----------



## FlyingHellFish

paronaram said:


> How about you install one more valve between ON/OFF stitch and solenoid.
> SMC AS2000 PNEUMATIC INLINE NEEDLE VALVE 1/8" NNB - look up on fleabay
> it's rated for up to 1.5Mpa, so it's approximately 2100 psi


I'm not sure that would work, there a difference between flow control and pressure reducing. 

For instance - 

*A*. Co2 atomizer requiring 40 psi of pressure to work.
*B*. You turn down the flow from your needle valve.

*Question*: Do you think the atomizer will still work even though you turn down the needle valve? 

*Answer * : Yes, pressure remain the same but flow has been reduced. 

Note: If we don't get technical, and stay within the context of this hobby, then for the sake of clarity, you won't be able to reduce the 1000 psi down to 150 psi.

That SMC Solenoid is rated for around 100 - 150 psi max. You can not reduce 1000 psi with that needle valve.

Newbieplanter - Come over to the dark side and build a custom Co2 rig


----------



## johnnytrn

For some reason on some nights I will wake up and see the bubble count increase (say from 2bps to 3-4bps). How does this happen?


----------



## talontsiawd

johnnytrn said:


> For some reason on some nights I will wake up and see the bubble count increase (say from 2bps to 3-4bps). How does this happen?


This setup has two things that can cause inconsistency. First, you don't have a regulator. You are asking a needle valve to do this and it's really not meant for that purpose. Secondly, most people are not using a good needle valve. Even with a good regulator, a not so great needle valve causes inconsistency. The needle valves people are using are far lower quality than what many would consider the lowest quality acceptable needle valves on a regulated CO2 setup. Even if you were to add one of those, they are not meant for this high of working pressure. 

Honestly, a jump in pressure isn't nearly as bad as some of what members on here have went through. Not only is this inconsistent, it's really not safe either.


----------



## johnnytrn

talontsiawd said:


> This setup has two things that can cause inconsistency. First, you don't have a regulator. You are asking a needle valve to do this and it's really not meant for that purpose. Secondly, most people are not using a good needle valve. Even with a good regulator, a not so great needle valve causes inconsistency. The needle valves people are using are far lower quality than what many would consider the lowest quality acceptable needle valves on a regulated CO2 setup. Even if you were to add one of those, they are not meant for this high of working pressure.
> 
> Honestly, a jump in pressure isn't nearly as bad as some of what members on here have went through. Not only is this inconsistent, it's really not safe either.


Ah gotcha, thanks! This jump happened 3x now, fish don't seem to mind. Drop checker still remains green 

Maybe I'll buy an aquatek regulator when I have more $


----------



## Chris_Produces

After reading all this, I feel myself wanting to build a co2 setup :icon_mrgr

My tank is only a few months old but I am going to have to do this. I thought I'd be fine for a while and content with dosing Excel and Ferts...I was wrong lol


----------



## tony667

hi, I don't know if people are still responding to this. But, I and a friend bought everything and set up this device up. The problem we have is with the needle vavle. We bought the angled one. The problem is that when we turn it on. It shouts out to much BPS. We try to turn it down and it turns off. Are doing something wrong? Do you have more control with the straight one?


----------



## Chris_Produces

tony667 said:


> hi, I don't know if people are still responding to this. But, I and a friend bought everything and set up this device up. The problem we have is with the needle vavle. We bought the angled one. The problem is that when we turn it on. It shouts out to much BPS. We try to turn it down and it turns off. Are doing something wrong? Do you have more control with the straight one?


Did you open everything up before opening the co2 tank? Sounds to me like you have to much back pressure and is usually caused by not opening up the setup correctly.


----------



## tony667

Yes. I open the top cap all the way. That's the only one I know to open all the way. Is there something else? That I should be doing to open it?a


----------



## Chris_Produces

tony667 said:


> Yes. I open the top cap all the way. That's the only one I know to open all the way. Is there something else? That I should be doing to open it?a


If the main valve that's attached to the co2 tank is open all the way and you're using just the basic needle valve attached to try and handle the work load, you may want to try closing down the main valve some on the co2 tank.


----------



## newbieplanter

tony667 said:


> Yes. I open the top cap all the way. That's the only one I know to open all the way. Is there something else? That I should be doing to open it?a



U need a new needle valve. Something like this
Or like this

Thise other ones u can get a steady bubble count but u have to do it before u put the hose to the diffuser, stick it in water an turn it very very slow with a very very steady hand an u can get 2-4bps out of it maybe even 1bps. Thats what i did the first few months once its set tho u cant touch it or u will throw it off. Just grab a new NV an u can do set it to anything u want.


----------



## Chris_Produces

^^^^^^^

Now we're talking roud:


----------



## talontsiawd

newbieplanter said:


> U need a new needle valve. Something like this


Are those needle valves even rated anywhere close to the amount of pressure from an unregulated setup? I looked online for the Fabco and it looks like it has an 80PSI max but I didn't find an absolute max rating, the flow chart only goes to 80. These setups are like 10x that so I would be weary about using them.


----------



## Chris_Produces

talontsiawd said:


> Are those needle valves even rated anywhere close to the amount of pressure from an unregulated setup? I looked online for the Fabco and it looks like it has an 80PSI max but I didn't find an absolute max rating, the flow chart only goes to 80. These setups are like 10x that so I would be weary about using them.


That's what I was wondering...I wonder which needle valve he bought and what the max psi rating is on it.


----------



## newbieplanter

talontsiawd said:


> Are those needle valves even rated anywhere close to the amount of pressure from an unregulated setup? I looked online for the Fabco and it looks like it has an 80PSI max but I didn't find an absolute max rating, the flow chart only goes to 80. These setups are like 10x that so I would be weary about using them.


Get the ideal needle valve $80 u be good to go ill post the number here when i get home.
Something like 52-1-12


----------



## talontsiawd

newbieplanter said:


> Get the ideal needle valve $80 u be good to go ill post the number here when i get home.
> Something like 52-1-12


I know about them and what I am saying is that I don't think they are meant for a non regulated co2 setup. I am unsure about the working pressure but most of these are supposed to be under 100PSI or so. Now I don't know what can happen if you go over that but I imagine a $60 single stage regulator with that valve would actually work quite well. I don't get the idea of buying a high end needle valve but cutting the cost or a regulator myself, especially when the ASA's are $20+ and most would want to add a gauge.


----------



## newbieplanter

talontsiawd said:


> I know about them and what I am saying is that I don't think they are meant for a non regulated co2 setup. I am unsure about the working pressure but most of these are supposed to be under 100PSI or so. Now I don't know what can happen if you go over that but I imagine a $60 single stage regulator with that valve would actually work quite well. I don't get the idea of buying a high end needle valve but cutting the cost or a regulator myself, especially when the ASA's are $20+ and most would want to add a gauge.


Thats just the easy way out, i got one on my 20 gal an its been running for 1-1/2 almost 2 years now with no problem. But i told u how to run it with the other one.


----------



## talontsiawd

newbieplanter said:


> Thats just the easy way out, i got one on my 20 gal an its been running for 1-1/2 almost 2 years now with no problem. But i told u how to run it with the other one.


I understand the setup. I get it works for a lot of people (and doesn't work for a lot of people).

I guess my question is, is it good advice to recommend those needle valves? It doesn't seem to fit the application, plus one is quite expensive for (in my opinion) a short cut type setup. I am just wondering if the more sensitive, lower pressure needle valves can get damaged from this type of setup.


----------



## oldpunk78

I wonder if anyone has sustained an injury from this yet.


----------



## talontsiawd

oldpunk78 said:


> I wonder if anyone has sustained an injury from this yet.


I have yet to see people get damaged but I know of 3 catastrophic failures with this setup. I am sure you can screw up a "normal" CO2 setup the same way if you really try but I haven't heard of any on the board as of yet.


----------



## herns

I just thought Id like to share my first paintball Co2 setup for my 2G. Before this, I got an Intense regulator from HK but didnt work so well. 
With some parts ready, I bought a Cornelius reg for $28 shipped and put them all together. This was taken during leak test and had been running for almost 2 mos now.

bad pic.


----------



## newbieplanter

talontsiawd said:


> I understand the setup. I get it works for a lot of people (and doesn't work for a lot of people).
> 
> I guess my question is, is it good advice to recommend those needle valves? It doesn't seem to fit the application, plus one is quite expensive for (in my opinion) a short cut type setup. I am just wondering if the more sensitive, lower pressure needle valves can get damaged from this type of setup.


Yea they probly can, wouldnt doubt it. Im tellin ya what worked for me. If u read back in this post u see thats what is stated in every post here an all over this forum. Like this whole set up it worked for this guy so he posted it here right? Now others might not want to take this road but others will give it a shot. Me i got 3 different co2 set ups on my tanks an all work. The best way to decide whats gonna work for u is read, read, read. Good luck!


----------



## newbieplanter

herns said:


> I just thought Id like to share my first paintball Co2 setup for my 2G. Before this, I got an Intense regulator from HK but didnt work so well.
> With some parts ready, I bought a Cornelius reg for $28 shipped and put them all together. This was taken during leak test and had been running for almost 2 mos now.
> 
> bad pic.


How come u didnt use the one of the DS regs u sold, too much weight?


----------



## herns

newbieplanter said:


> How come u didnt use the one of the DS regs u sold, too much weight?


That was too big for a paintball. I wanted something light yet have fully controlled on pressure.


----------



## FlyingHellFish

herns said:


> I just thought Id like to share my first paintball Co2 setup for my 2G. Before this, I got an Intense regulator from HK but didnt work so well.
> With some parts ready, I bought a Cornelius reg for $28 shipped and put them all together. This was taken during leak test and had been running for almost 2 mos now.
> 
> bad pic.


What was wrong with the intense? Did it work out?


----------



## herns

the adapter for cga 320 and the reg was somehow leaking badly. Did everything I can but wont stop. I don't know if the threads of the adapter had issues. Got tired of refills. I returned the reg for refund.


----------



## mr one

Hi there, im kinda new to theese co2 systems but have been reading about this a lot and much more  so wanted to know maybe someone from europe could link me into some shops that sells ASA on/off valve? tried to look around but didnt found any of them ( or it might be i was searching with wrong keywords). Also found that in my country they have for sale on/off valves but they look different than those been used in this thread 

Thanks


----------



## Hilde

mr one said:


> Maybe someone from europe could link me into some shops that sells ASA on/off valve?


Have you tried Ebay?


----------



## mr one

Hilde said:


> Have you tried Ebay?


yeap, and i could get from there but unfortunately i cant, because of some a bit dumb laws that can make me pay twice for the same item


----------



## Hilde

mr one said:


> yeap, and i could get from there but unfortunately i cant, because of some a bit dumb laws that can make me pay twice for the same item


If no responses for this thread. Do an advanced search of members near you and ask them via private message.


----------



## newbieplanter

mr one said:


> Hi there, im kinda new to theese co2 systems but have been reading about this a lot and much more  so wanted to know maybe someone from europe could link me into some shops that sells ASA on/off valve? tried to look around but didnt found any of them ( or it might be i was searching with wrong keywords). Also found that in my country they have for sale on/off valves but they look different than those been used in this thread
> 
> Thanks


It dont matter what it looks like jus as long as serves pourpose, also paintball shops carry them too thats where i got mine from.


----------



## FlyingHellFish

Keep your paintball tanks and just get a normal regulator with an adapter, you now can go with paintball or cylinder! Plus, you can put it on a timer.


----------



## newbieplanter

FlyingHellFish said:


> Keep your paintball tanks and just get a normal regulator with an adapter, you now can go with paintball or cylinder! Plus, you can put it on a timer.


An tha price is? For that set up?


----------



## FlyingHellFish

I'm too ashamed to say.


----------



## newbieplanter

FlyingHellFish said:


> I'm too ashamed to say.


I dont care i like it, i was lookin for a set up like that awhile back. Im guessin anyone who goes this route is trying to save, i figure either way u r gonna spend spend spend lol. Its a HOBBY enjoy it.


----------



## andrewq

Very cool colors. I like the blue bubble counter. Im jealous!

Here's mine. Not running, because I just depleted all the co2 by mistake. I still have my fingers though, lol.


----------



## mr one

in EU shops its hard to find a ASA on/off... gonna try one more time, this setup would kinda fit nicely near my 45 litres tank


----------



## andrewq

mr one said:


> in EU shops its hard to find a ASA on/off... gonna try one more time, this setup would kinda fit nicely near my 45 litres tank



I got my setup from one of the members on this forum, Nilocg. Came With Co2 on/off valve, pressure gauge, needle valve, JBJ bubble counter, 10ft co2 tubing, Stainless Steel Check Valve, glass drop checker and thread tape. 

He also had other cheaper options, if you didnt want everything.


----------



## mr one

andrewq said:


> I got my setup from one of the members on this forum, Nilocg. Came With Co2 on/off valve, pressure gauge, needle valve, JBJ bubble counter, 10ft co2 tubing, Stainless Steel Check Valve, glass drop checker and thread tape.
> 
> He also had other cheaper options, if you didnt want everything.


and maybe if its not a secret how much that all cost?


----------



## andrewq

mr one said:


> and maybe if its not a secret how much that all cost?


lol, came out to $68 shipped.


----------



## Chris_Produces

andrewq said:


> lol, came out to $68 shipped.


That's a nice hookup


----------



## Hilde

herns said:


> With some parts ready, I bought a Cornelius reg for $28 shipped and put them all together.


I wish you had a thread on how you made it, where you bought parts, and the cost of parts. This is exactly what I want.


----------



## newbieplanter

Hilde said:


> I wish you had a thread on how you made it, where you bought parts, and the cost of parts. This is exactly what I want.


Ebay has the reg for about $12-$20 depends whos selling
They also have other regs ranging from $50-$400

Freshwater systems has the burkert solenoid for about $40-$80 depends on what finish u want.

Ideal has needle valves around $80
Fabco also has em (NVs) for around $30-$40
Clippard has em too (NVs) i just dont know the price

If u look up swagelok fittings on ebay u can get all the elbows an straits an whatnot 

This can get ya started.


----------



## Hilde

newbieplanter said:


> Ebay has the reg for about $12-$20 depends whos selling


What is a good brand though? For so much junk on Ebay.


----------



## newbieplanter

Hilde said:


> What is a good brand though? For so much junk on Ebay.


For the reg theres tons of name brands smith,matheson,air products,concoa,Milwaukee MA957,parker,linde.
Just to name a few out of the ines named here the milwaukee is a cheaper brand name reg. but comes with everything all u do is fill bubble counter add a diffuser with some air/co2 tube plug into a timer an go.

If u wanna get into building ya own reg an all that an skip this paintball thing check out this in the search section by oldpunk78
How to build a co2 regulator [56k!]
It will take a bit longer an u might loose some hair but u will get the best top of the line system if u have some money to spend.


----------



## dzega

do i understand it right that OP is not using pressure reducer or am i missing something? how the hell can you get steady longtime output without steady pressure into needle valve ?

PS. english is not my motherlanguage sorry


----------



## mr one

Does anyone know of a fire exti,quishes fits on thread a asa on off?

Bad spelling... Do a fire extinquisher fits a asa on off ?


----------



## gabriel.mi

dzega said:


> do i understand it right that OP is not using pressure reducer or am i missing something? how the hell can you get steady longtime output without steady pressure into needle valve ?
> 
> PS. english is not my motherlanguage sorry


Well, pressure does not decrease linear over time. It will stay steady until the tank is almost empty.

I had issues with the needle valve, as it wasn't closing all the way. I use pliers to turn it even more, like 1/8-1/4 turns back and forward. This way I got the "needle" shape to really fit the body of the valve and close all the way. Just an idea: before this operation I could tighten down the valve up to a point by hand; after this operation, I got probably 2 more extra turns out of it. The idea is that the brass gave in and the needle and body modeled each other, polishing the imperfections.


----------



## gabriel.mi

herns said:


> I just thought Id like to share my first paintball Co2 setup for my 2G. Before this, I got an Intense regulator from HK but didnt work so well.
> With some parts ready, I bought a Cornelius reg for $28 shipped and put them all together. This was taken during leak test and had been running for almost 2 mos now.
> 
> bad pic.


Whats the black part between the regulator and tank? Is the ASA valve included in the regulator? How does the regulator push the tank pin?


----------



## Hilde

herns said:


> my first paintball Co2 setup for my 2G.


What size of tank are you using?


----------



## Hilde

Don't see any mention of how long the tanks last or cost. Anyone care to tell me.


----------



## andrewq

Hilde said:


> Don't see any mention of how long the tanks last or cost. Anyone care to tell me.



A 20oz tank last about 3 months. I got mine for $20 online, and $4 to refill.


----------



## Hilde

andrewq said:


> A 20oz tank last about 3 months. I got mine for $20 online, and $4 to refill.


Is that with 1-2 bubbles per second? For someone told me his 20oz lasted 6 months.


----------



## andrewq

Mines set at 2bps


----------



## pavelstol

Does IT NEED to be an on off asa? I have an asa that's not on off. When plugging in and taking out I could just close off the needle valve and pull the tube out of the tank for safety?


----------



## Darkblade48

pavelstol said:


> Does IT NEED to be an on off asa? I have an asa that's not on off. When plugging in and taking out I could just close off the needle valve and pull the tube out of the tank for safety?


Needle valves are not meant to be fully closed; doing so can damage them. There are a few exceptions (a few models allow full closure).

They also can only withstand a certain amount of pressure, so I would be careful if you do not plan to use an ASA.


----------



## pavelstol

Darkblade48 said:


> Needle valves are not meant to be fully closed; doing so can damage them. There are a few exceptions (a few models allow full closure).
> 
> They also can only withstand a certain amount of pressure, so I would be careful if you do not plan to use an ASA.


Well what if I unscrew it from the tank every night or just always keep it at a few bpm and never close it?


----------



## Pbaff

When I was running a paintball setup I just let it run all of the time. 

I would not suggest taking it off every night. You will have a lot of pressure in the system that has to come out the ASA. You may be able to unscrew it enough to get disengage the needle valve and still have a seal between the ASA and the tank. That is what we used to do with our paintball guns and it worked alright.


----------



## talontsiawd

pavelstol said:


> Well what if I unscrew it from the tank every night or just always keep it at a few bpm and never close it?


You should not tweak your CO2 daily, especially if you are running high levels. You could kill your fish, plus it will just lead to other algae issues from being inconsistent. Why exactly do you want to be able to do this?


----------



## pavelstol

talontsiawd said:


> You should not tweak your CO2 daily, especially if you are running high levels. You could kill your fish, plus it will just lead to other algae issues from being inconsistent. Why exactly do you want to be able to do this?


I'm saying that I have an asa that I can't turn on and off. Would taking the tank off at the same time ech day and putting it on the next morning be ok? I would never adjust the needle valve besides the first time.


----------



## Darkblade48

I would not recommend that you disconnect the setup on a daily basis; it would cause unnecessary wear and tear, and cause additional work.

The point of pressurized CO2 is to keep things as hands off as possible (in addition to having healthy plants).

If you do not intend to get a solenoid, I would just leave the CO2 running 24/7, albeit at slightly lower levels.


----------



## absidius

*Paintball Adapter Gauge leak*

So my gauge is leaking from the tiny hole on the back. I heard that having the gauge is optional altogether, so what exactly do I fill the void up with? Is there some sort of nut I can and fill in the void, or what?


----------



## oldpunk78

I can't believe this thread has over 300000 views. I guess it's just a testament to how cheap most of us are. 

Has anyone hurt themselves yet?


----------



## Silvernb03

Will this one 
Fit this http://t.dickssportinggoods.com/pro...cp=4406646.4413993.12922070.13342723.4414642?
Thanks


----------



## Hilde

Silvernb03 said:


> Will this one
> Fit this http://t.dickssportinggoods.com/pro...cp=4406646.4413993.12922070.13342723.4414642?
> Thanks


Was it your intention to post a link to pros wear?


----------



## Viper

This thread is fantastic! Been wanting a pressurized system for a while, but wasn't willing to spend the few hundred dollars that I thought they cost. It turns out I have almost all of the equipment needed (seeing that I used to play paintball a couple times a year).

I currently have an on/off that only has the one hole for the needle valve. If I were to go with this one, how would I know when my tank needs to be refilled? Would I just need to keep a close eye on my bubbles per minute to know when the tank is low?

EDIT: Nevermind. I found my answer on page 1219831928


----------



## mkbojangles

I did this I tested for no leaks but when I let out the needle valve it does the rate I want but then falls off after a short time ... What do I need to make sure it stays constant


----------



## mkbojangles

*Setup not working just right*

i setup this and its great, but when i get the needle valve where i want it , it slows after a bit till nothing is really coming out. I submerged the threads all in water and found no leaks in anything.So im wondering if a bubble counter will fix this. I just want to set it at a constant rate so i dont have to fiddle with it all the time!!!!!
i just have the asa valve with a needle valve on a glass diffuser


thanks !


----------



## Viper

One post that I saw in this thread (that also didn't receive any replies) suggested placing your thumb over the output of the tubing with the system up and running. This will force the Co2 out of any leaks that otherwise don't make themselves apparent.

I set my system up and didn't see any leaks but remembered that suggestion. Once I did that I found a good-sized leak from the compression nut.


----------



## suds1421

Everyone,

I made this with a ASA, FMF10BK Deltrol and the Watts needle valve ganged together. 

I tried it with just the Deltrol valve and I wasn't able to adjust the bubble rate. With both of them together I can just barely do it. 

I think folks are having troubles with the bubble rate slowing down for this reason: They crack the CO2 open which creates lots of back pressure, then they turn down the valve until they get the correct rate. Then as the back pressure is released the bubble rate slows down. 

So what I do is get the bubble rate slower than I want... then adjust the rate up instead of adjusting it down. 

I adjust the valve by tapping on it with something.... just light little taps and wait a bit to see if it changed...


----------



## Matt47890

Can I use something like this


----------



## Viper

Matt47890 said:


> Can I use something like this


Yes but you'll need other parts/equipment besides just that.


----------



## Matt47890

Actually I don't want this one lol I'd need to do hydrotests lol


----------



## Viper

Matt47890 said:


> Actually I don't want this one lol I'd need to do hydrotests lol


It says fresh hydro test. 

Hydro tests are every 5 years as well and you'll need to do hydro tests on any pressurized Co2 canister that you use.


----------



## Matt47890

Someone was saying you don't on the 20oz ones


----------



## Viper

Matt47890 said:


> Someone was saying you don't on the 20oz ones


ALL refillable Co2 tanks must be hydro tested every "X" amount of years. Locally where I'm at, it's every 5 years. I'm not sure if that varies state by state. 

This test is to make sure the canister is structurally sound and can withstand the forces exerted by a pressurized gas. A tank that fails can have lethal consequences.


----------



## Matt47890

Viper said:


> ALL refillable Co2 tanks must be hydro tested every "X" amount of years. Locally where I'm at, it's every 5 years. I'm not sure if that varies state by state.
> 
> This test is to make sure the canister is structurally sound and can withstand the forces exerted by a pressurized gas. A tank that fails can have lethal consequences.


Interesting so for that bigger tank what would I need to be up and running


----------



## Viper

Matt47890 said:


> Interesting so for that bigger tank what would I need to be up and running


The general consensus on a setup goes like Co2 canister, regulator, needle valve, bubble counter, Co2-rated tubing, check valve(s), diffuser of some sort, drop checker (or if budget allows for it, a pH controller). 

It really depends on what you're trying to accomplish though.


----------



## zerodameaon

Matt47890 said:


> Someone was saying you don't on the 20oz ones


You don't hydro the 20oz, you toss them in the recycling and go buy a new one. The cost of a rehydro easily exceeds the price of a brand new tank.


----------



## Matt47890

I appreciate it guys thanks for the info


----------



## Viper

zerodameaon said:


> You don't hydro the 20oz, you toss them in the recycling and go buy a new one. The cost of a rehydro easily exceeds the price of a brand new tank.


:hihi:


----------



## JavaMossBlues

So is this still a viable option? I've heard differing reports on whether this is safe or not. 

I'm sure the definite answer is somewhere in this thread but I've read the first thirty pages and it looked good, but the last few pages have me worried about it again. 

Anyone have long term facts?


----------



## Viper

JavaMossBlues said:


> So is this still a viable option? I've heard differing reports on whether this is safe or not.
> 
> I'm sure the definite answer is somewhere in this thread but I've read the first thirty pages and it looked good, but the last few pages have me worried about it again.
> 
> Anyone have long term facts?


I tried it and couldn't get a consistent bubble rate. But then again I didn't have a true ASA on/off valve. 

I also think the key to keeping that consistent bubble rate is a quality needle valve. I got the cheapo one from Home Depot and for one, it's really hard to make micro adjustments. 

The issue is that a quality needle valve can start running you around $50 which makes this less of a cost-saving method.


----------



## Matt47890

Did you see any improvement in plant growth?


----------



## Viper

Matt47890 said:


> Did you see any improvement in plant growth?


Definitely. My crypt has exploded. My Anubias constantly has oxygen bubbles on the underside of its leaves and has grown a ton of new roots. 

However, that fluctuating co2 flow has also caused a pretty big explosion of algae as well. I was fighting a losing battle with the algae using the paintball co2 method described in this thread (still am sadly).

I've only had a fully pressurized, non-paintball co2 system for about a week now. However, my bubble rate is definitely consistent.


----------



## Matt47890

Interesting how many bubbles per second were you running?


----------



## Viper

Matt47890 said:


> Interesting how many bubbles per second were you running?


Didn't really have a set amount, but enough to get my drop checker green. I'd have to constantly adjust the flow though because of the inability of my setup to keep a consistent flow. If I had to guess I'd say about 2.5-3 bubbles per second was enough to achieve that green drop checker.

But at that rate, even my 24oz. paintball tank would need to be refilled every month to month and a half.


----------



## JavaMossBlues

Viper said:


> I tried it and couldn't get a consistent bubble rate. But then again I didn't have a true ASA on/off valve.
> 
> I also think the key to keeping that consistent bubble rate is a quality needle valve. I got the cheapo one from Home Depot and for one, it's really hard to make micro adjustments.
> 
> The issue is that a quality needle valve can start running you around $50 which makes this less of a cost-saving method.


Interesting, thanks for the information. I think that if I do end up going the pressurized route I may still use a paintball tank, but use a full sized regulator with a Aquatek CGA320 to Paintball Adapter. 

Space constrains limit my tank options, but the worry of pressure levels makes me think a regulator with a quality needle valve would be a better investment. 

All I can find our setups that have built in solenoids. Can someone PM a link to a good setup similar to the Paintball setups from Aquatek that doesn't have the Solenoid. I don't care to have it shutting on and off and I'm starting to max out on electric and would like to plan on it just running 24.7.


----------



## Viper

JavaMossBlues said:


> Interesting, thanks for the information. I think that if I do end up going the pressurized route I may still use a paintball tank, but use a full sized regulator with a Aquatek CGA320 to Paintball Adapter.
> 
> Space constrains limit my tank options, but the worry of pressure levels makes me think a regulator with a quality needle valve would be a better investment.
> 
> All I can find our setups that have built in solenoids. Can someone PM a link to a good setup similar to the Paintball setups from Aquatek that doesn't have the Solenoid. I don't care to have it shutting on and off and I'm starting to max out on electric and would like to plan on it just running 24.7.



No problem.

I'm not sure of other manufacturers that make paintball tank regulators, but Aquatek makes one that you don't need an adapter for. 

Amazon.com : AQUATEK CO2 Regulator Mini : Paintball Regulator : Pet Supplies

Also, a solenoid doesn't necessarily mean that you have to have it turning off and on. You still need to hook that solenoid up to a timer to get that on/off cycle. If you just plug it straight into an outlet it'll run 24/7.


----------



## intermision

I just recently set one of these up. The system works great and the plants love it, but I'm worried about gassing my fish. 

I was wondering if anybody had put a solenoid on one of these systems. I was thinking about using a T with a solenoid coming off of it. I know I'd loose some CO2 at night, but I'm only running at 1 BPS, and re-fills are cheap enough were i'm not to worried about it.

I figure as long as I have a 1 way i don't have anything to worry about.


----------



## Viper

intermision said:


> I just recently set one of these up. The system works great and the plants love it, but I'm worried about gassing my fish.
> 
> I was wondering if anybody had put a solenoid on one of these systems. I was thinking about using a T with a solenoid coming off of it. I know I'd loose some CO2 at night, but I'm only running at 1 BPS, and re-fills are cheap enough were i'm not to worried about it.
> 
> I figure as long as I have a 1 way i don't have anything to worry about.


How large is your fish tank? If you only have it running at 1 bps, I wouldn't worry about gassing your fish unless you're running a really small tank.


----------



## Viper

Matt47890 said:


> Did you see any improvement in plant growth?


Here's about 2 weeks of growth. 1 week with my paintball setup and 1 week with my 20 pound/regulated setup.


----------



## intermision

Viper said:


> How large is your fish tank? If you only have it running at 1 bps, I wouldn't worry about gassing your fish unless you're running a really small tank.



It's only a 5g Fluval spec V


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Viper

intermision said:


> It's only a 5g Fluval spec V
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Do you have a drop checker? I still think your fish would be fine at 1 bps.

I can't comment on adding a solenoid as I have no idea whether your proposed idea would work. 

But if you can swing it financially, I'd look into the Aquatek mini regulator which is for paintball tanks and comes with an integrated solenoid.


----------



## Hilde

How do you know you have the right size needle valve for this setup?


----------



## creekbottom

Cv values are a pretty good way to tell, there is a pretty good discussion going on here: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=837474


----------



## vally78

I purchased the LFA-41 and it seems i must be missing something else to go with it. The screw on nut screws tightlyonto the valve, but the airline still has wiggle room in the hole it comes out. Please see my picture here: http://i.imgur.com/EK4qdOY.jpg









Basically, the standard airline is 3/8" it fits nice and snug over the bullet part that nestles into the valve. When you slide the nut with the built-in compression ring on it, it screws onto the valve nice and tight, but there is space all around the airline. The hole in the nut/the compression part is too wide for the airline to be airtight. What am i doing wrong?

EDIT: Here is what i mean about it being loose:









*EDIT 2: SOLVED* So, as it turns out i am way more blonde that i would like to be at times. The looseness around the hose is because i only hand tightened it for testing purposes. (igit mode: its a COMPRESSION fitting) So, as soon as i used a pair of plyers to tighten it down (like everyone does) it fit perfectly. OY. sorry everyone! It took 3 plumbing people @ menards to mention that "how do you know if its GOING to be loose if you haven't tightened it down yet?" And then i had an AHA moment, as well as a hang my head, "i should have known that" moment. My valve is a bit temperamental, but not terrible. I find that i can't rely on the valve 100% to slow the bubbles down, or the hose pops off my diffuser. It still leaks a tiny bit, if i turn the main valve on all the way (the valve that pushes down the paint ball pin). Either way, it is working now. Next challenge is getting the light bright enough to actually do something.


----------



## Dead2fall

vally78 said:


> I purchased the LFA-41 and it seems i must be missing something else to go with it. The screw on nut screws tightlyonto the valve, but the airline still has wiggle room in the hole it comes out. Please see my picture here: http://i.imgur.com/EK4qdOY.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Basically, the standard airline is 3/8" it fits nice and snug over the bullet part that nestles into the valve. When you slide the nut with the built-in compression ring on it, it screws onto the valve nice and tight, but there is space all around the airline. The hole in the nut/the compression part is too wide for the airline to be airtight. What am i doing wrong?
> 
> EDIT: Here is what i mean about it being loose:


You sure it's 3/8 air tubing you have there? Standard is usually 1/4"OD that would explain your gap. I'd return the needle valve and try one made for 1/4 tubing.


----------



## jrill

Your missing the collar that goes over the tube. That's were that compression part comes in. I see its may be there but could be damaged. Get a new compression collar.
On a second thought are you trying to use standard aquarium tubing. That's like 7/32 as opposed to 1/4. Sorry I did not read the whole post.


----------



## jrill

Dead2fall said:


> You sure it's 3/8 air tubing you have there? Standard is usually 1/4"OD that would explain your gap. I'd return the needle valve and try one made for 1/4 tubing.


I don't think that's 3/8 which is nearly twice the diameter of 1/4.


----------



## Dead2fall

jrill said:


> I don't think that's 3/8 which is nearly twice the diameter of 1/4.


The collar is incorporated in the nut. The poster said they had "3/8 standard tubing" so I assumed they bought I 3/8 compression valve. Now that I think about it you're probably correct it would much bigger.


----------



## jrill

Dead2fall said:


> The collar is incorporated in the nut. The poster said they had "3/8 standard tubing" so I assumed they bought I 3/8 compression valve. Now that I think about it you're probably correct it would much bigger.


I never liked the ones where they were incorporated. Always trouble for me. I also have substituted the brass collar for the vinyl one when using vinyl tubing. Seemed better but that could be just me.


----------



## vally78

So, i measured the airline just to be sure. It is 1/4 from the outside edge to the outside edge in diameter. http://i.imgur.com/bJIBWXJ.jpg

This is the tubing size that fits snuggly on my co2 Diffuser: Amazon.com : Fluval Ceramic 88g-CO2 Diffuser - 3.1 Ounces : Workplace First Aid Kits : Pet Supplies

Yes, the collar that goes over the tube is incorporated into the nut and cannot be removed. I purchased the same part number that was indicated in the write up. Is this a slightly updated/changed version of the needle valve? I know that the write up is from 5 years ago, but i would think some things would stay the same. Does anyone have a link to the CORRECT needle valve? Preferably on amazon.


----------



## Dead2fall

vally78 said:


> So, i measured the airline just to be sure. It is 1/4 from the outside edge to the outside edge in diameter. http://i.imgur.com/bJIBWXJ.jpg
> 
> This is the tubing size that fits snuggly on my co2 Diffuser: Amazon.com : Fluval Ceramic 88g-CO2 Diffuser - 3.1 Ounces : Workplace First Aid Kits : Pet Supplies
> 
> Yes, the collar that goes over the tube is incorporated into the nut and cannot be removed. I purchased the same part number that was indicated in the write up. Is this a slightly updated/changed version of the needle valve? I know that the write up is from 5 years ago, but i would think some things would stay the same. Does anyone have a link to the CORRECT needle valve? Preferably on amazon.


Was the bag for that valve sealed? Maybe someone switched the nut? If it's a 1/4 compression fitting valve there's no reason your tubing shouldn't work.


----------



## Hilde

The majority of these set ups don't have a regulator just a needle valve. What would happen if the needle valve malfunctioned?


----------



## creekbottom

Then you have all that CO2 coming out of the tank at that really high pressure.

BOOM!!!


----------



## Hilde

creekbottom said:


> Then you have all that CO2 coming out of the tank at that really high pressure.
> 
> BOOM!!!


Yeh I can envision the tank banging around the room. 

Has anyone had the needle valve malfunction?


----------



## boredom.is.me

It would appear as though I have merged into the realm of paintball CO2 injection.  I'm setting up a 40B with my first ever CO2 setup. I still have another week before I can setup the tank though. (I'm putting on the final coats of paint on the stand right now.)

24oz Tank
Watts LFA-41
ASA Adapter with gauge from creepBay
ISTA Medium Reactor
1/4" Vinyl tubing

Need:
Bubble Counter - I'm a diy person, but I don't want to make one...


----------



## Dead2fall

https://youtu.be/wEgt41AJaU4


----------



## Hilde

Dead2fall said:


> https://youtu.be/wEgt41AJaU4


Thanks!!


----------



## boredom.is.me

Dead2fall said:


> https://youtu.be/wEgt41AJaU4





Hilde said:


> Thanks!!


I was going to get brackets to hard mount the tank to my stand. Now I am DEFINITELY getting those brackets.


----------



## Hilde

boredom.is.me said:


> I was going to get brackets to hard mount the tank to my stand. Now I am DEFINITELY getting those brackets.


I would like to see pics of that. Looks the paintball tank stayed in position in the bag as it leaked.


----------



## boredom.is.me

Hilde said:


> I would like to see pics of that. Looks the paintball tank stayed in position in the bag as it leaked.


I simply strapped it to my corner brace. I still need my ASA adapter to check. If it does fit, then I'll make a small wedge to put under the cylinder.


----------



## Hilde

boredom.is.me said:


> I simply strapped it to my corner brace. I still need my ASA adapter to check. If it does fit, then I'll make a small wedge to put under the cylinder.


Very nifty. Are you going to look on fleebay for 1?


----------



## boredom.is.me

Sadly I already ordered it. The ETA is from the 16th to the 30th. I won't be able to set up the tank till next week, but I still need the substrate. I still don't know what I want to do for substrate. The top item on my list is Flourite Black Sand. I do not want to mix substrate materials. I am against the idea of the "soil" substrates breaking down, nor can I justify $100+ for 40B substrate.


----------



## Hilde

boredom.is.me said:


> I still don't know what I want to do for substrate. The top item on my list is Flourite Black Sand. I do not want to mix substrate materials. I am against the idea of the "soil" substrates breaking down, nor can I justify $100+ for 40B substrate.


I hope you make a thread on it. How about black diamond blasting sand, which Northern Tool carries?


----------



## boredom.is.me

Hilde said:


> I hope you make a thread on it. How about black diamond blasting sand, which Northern Tool carries?


There are quite a few "active" threads going on that topic now. I do not want to go with black diamond because...

Screw it. I'm going with the black diamond. I've never had any issues with it in the past. I'll just mix O+ beads in.


----------



## Hilde

boredom.is.me said:


> There are quite a few "active" threads going on that topic now. I do not want to go with black diamond because...
> 
> Screw it. I'm going with the black diamond. I've never had any issues with it in the past. I'll just mix O+ beads in.


I would wait until after the Atlanta auction to get your substrate. Sometimes you can get some there. 

What are O+ beads?


----------



## boredom.is.me

Osmocote Plus
http://www.myaquariumclub.com/a-quick-run-down-on-osmocote-root-tabs-6167.html


----------



## Hilde

boredom.is.me said:


> Osmocote Plus
> http://www.myaquariumclub.com/a-quick-run-down-on-osmocote-root-tabs-6167.html


I think it cheaper just to buy Osmocote at a hardware store and put them in gel caps, which can be bought at a health food store.

Is anyone here using a AQUATEK CO2 Regulator Mini or the 



 Pros and cons?


----------



## boredom.is.me

Actually, I bought my own container of O+. I don't cap them though. I only posted that as a reference.

I would have gone with that regulator if I got a full size CO2 tank.


----------



## Hilde

Will an On/Off Valve with 3000 Psi Gauge work?


----------



## Hilde

Hadouken441 said:


> So to help out my fellow planters for sure check out PBNATION.com. Then scroll to the bottom for the Buy/sell/trade and then click on Misc. Paintball equip. Then search for ASA using the search forum. Happy Planting!


I can't find the section.


----------



## Hilde

Jaggedfury said:


> Also this guy on ebay will sell you one too. $5.00 + $5.99 shipping.


Googled on off ASA on fleebay and found Shocktech Paintball Dovetail Mount On/Off ASA which looks like the 1st 1 you used for $18. Reviews are bad on it, though. May have to get the custom brand for $30.

I notice the 1st ASA you used is by Shocktech and the other from Custom Products. Why did you change? Why did you not put a gauge on the later 1?



Jaggedfury said:


> Twist the Top Knob on the ASA On/Off Valve clockwise to close the Pin. - If Gauge reads 800-850 PSI, Co2 Gas has entered the ASA On/Off Valve Chamber. -


What is it suppose to read. What is the max psi on your gauge?


----------



## Hilde

dzydvl said:


> I would be willing to buy them and sell to anyone who is interested. Cost would be the total price, plus shipping. So no more than $20, but I know shipping is less.


By chance do you still have some needle valves available for sale? Or pm me a place to order from? Looking for needle valves with 1000psi.

Thanks Kim


----------



## sindy777

I have a 55 gallon tank. What size tank do I need and where did you get all the supplies? Especially the tank? I live in the "boonies" so I have to make my trips worth while. haha


----------



## Hilde

sindy777 said:


> I have a 55 gallon tank. What size tank do I need and where did you get all the supplies? Especially the tank? I live in the "boonies" so I have to make my trips worth while. haha


Some buy everything on Amazon. Then there is also flebay. Most important item is the needle valve. Here info on needle valves.


----------



## boredom.is.me

Hilde, did you ever get through with finding the on/off valve here in the states?

EVERY sporting goods store with an hour drive seems to have their CO2 refill stations down for maintenance...at the same flipping time. I finally found a close Ace that can fill my tank. Hopefully I will be able to fill it in the morning and test later.


----------



## Hilde

Read that a pressurized Co2 system with a single stage regulator has to be adjusted to maintain a constant pressure as the gas in the cylinder is used. 

Does the needle valve on the paintball Co2 system have to adjusted before refilling? How often have you adjusted it?


----------



## boredom.is.me

As for the on/off valve, that's exactly what it is. The chamber in the adapter goes to full pressure (800+ psi). The only adjustment comes from the needle valve.


----------



## Hilde

boredom.is.me said:


> The only adjustment comes from the needle valve.


Yeh, I get that. PGLENN said, " This system is not actually "regulating" the pressure. It is slowing the flow. Now if you have 1, 2, whatever needle valves in place, the "pressure" can still build across them. You have to have the first valve nearly shut. The high pressure is what makes these hard to adjust regardless of the valve. This will contribute to constant adjustments to the line itself."

Have other one's had to adjust the needle valve? How often?


----------



## boredom.is.me

I doubt it, but I only just set mine up.


----------



## Hilde

I bought this PneumaticPlus Push-to-Connect Air Flow Control Valve, Elbow, 1/4" Tube OD x 1/4" NPT. Now by the listing wouldn't you think that the input and output would be 1/4in. The input is 1/2in. I have requested a refund form fleebay seller. I ordered a LF A42 needle valve from Home Depot. For if I can 't find an adapter locally I would have to pay $7 for shipping and the needle valve is only $7.

If you live near Lithia Springs Academy Sports store does refills and they are open long hours.


----------



## Hilde

RoyalFizbin said:


> Mine


Will the weight of the plumbing put stress on the pin in the adapter?


----------



## boredom.is.me

Hilde said:


> I bought this PneumaticPlus Push-to-Connect Air Flow Control Valve, Elbow, 1/4" Tube OD x 1/4" NPT. Now by the listing wouldn't you think that the input and output would be 1/4in. The input is 1/2in. I have requested a refund form fleebay seller. I ordered a LF A42 needle valve from Home Depot. For if I can 't find an adapter locally I would have to pay $7 for shipping and the needle valve is only $7.
> 
> If you live near Lithia Springs Academy Sports store does refills and they are open long hours.


The only thing the air flow control valve would be able to is prevent a pressure surge. You would install it after the needle valve as a safety item.


----------



## Hilde

I have two paintball off/ and on ASAs. Having trouble finding a gauge. Does anyone know of a store that sells the gauges in Georgia? I have tried ACE, Home Depot and Lowe's.

Bump:


boredom.is.me said:


> The only thing the air flow control valve would be able to is prevent a pressure surge. You would install it after the needle valve as a safety item.


Yes that is the plan.


----------



## oldpunk78

Hilde said:


> I bought this PneumaticPlus Push-to-Connect Air Flow Control Valve, Elbow, 1/4" Tube OD x 1/4" NPT. Now by the listing wouldn't you think that the input and output would be 1/4in. The input is 1/2in. I have requested a refund form fleebay seller. I ordered a LF A42 needle valve from Home Depot. For if I can 't find an adapter locally I would have to pay $7 for shipping and the needle valve is only $7.
> 
> If you live near Lithia Springs Academy Sports store does refills and they are open long hours.


It's 1/4npt, not 1/4". The 1/8npt is a little bigger than a 1/4". Tube fittings are actually the size it is. Npt is different.


----------



## Hilde

oldpunk78 said:


> It's 1/4npt, not 1/4". The 1/8npt is a little bigger than a 1/4". Tube fittings are actually the size it is. Npt is different.


NPT sizes are confusing. I think I am better off buying the connectors locally.


----------



## boredom.is.me

Here it is mounted. I made my own check valve equipped bubble counter for fun. The reactor is disconnected from the return line. I need to get it spinning smoothly or else it becomes a big restriction.


----------



## Hilde

boredom.is.me said:


> The reactor is disconnected from the return line. I need to get it spinning smoothly or else it becomes a big restriction.


What are you using for the reactor? I see you are using only 1 needle valve. Many here have stated that they are having problems getting Co2 to be constant with just 1 needle valve. Are you running Co2 tube into your canister filter? I had read that Co2 can damage the seals in the filter. What are you using to diffuse it into the water?


----------



## Hilde

Jaggedfury said:


> When the gauge is a half way from 100 psi to 0 psi, I just go ahead and refill.


If you don't use a gauge how do know when to have the tank refilled?


----------



## Hilde

oldpunk78 said:


> It's 1/4npt, not 1/4". The 1/8npt is a little bigger than a 1/4". Tube fittings are actually the size it is. Npt is different.


Ok! So I closed my complaint on fleebay concerning the 1/4 NPT valve. 

So what NPT will be 3/16 (.187) or 1/4in (.25)? I can't find the answer googling.


----------



## Hilde

Jaggedfury said:


> I did look for a good while why piecing this together. This is probably the only working needle valve you can get that will allow you to hook up a co2 hose to it.


What is the watt # for the needle valve, which is from HD?

Bump:


Jaggedfury said:


> Part number.. on Homedepot link below..Lowes carry the same product, not sure if it's the same part number.
> 
> http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053


This link does longer go to the needle valve.

Never mind I found the answers reading this thread.


----------



## Hilde

Jaggedfury said:


> he size on the paintball on and off valve for the needle vavle and gauge is actually 1/8'' threaded.


I found my paintball on and off valve by swag mine to be actually 3/16in.


----------



## boredom.is.me

Hilde said:


> What are you using for the reactor? I see you are using only 1 needle valve. Many here have stated that they are having problems getting Co2 to be constant with just 1 needle valve. Are you running Co2 tube into your canister filter? I had read that Co2 can damage the seals in the filter. What are you using to diffuse it into the water?


I had an Ista Max Mix in line. That's why there is the joiner in the line. I either couldn't get it to run smoothly enough or the Sunsun 402B is just crap, so there was too much restriction. I'll install a CO2 ladder in the tank as a temporary option.

As for the needle valve, I haven't experienced much if any inconsistency so far, but I only made a three day test run on my 20 gallon tank.


----------



## Hilde

boredom.is.me said:


> I had an Ista Max Mix in line. That's why there is the joiner in the line. I either couldn't get it to run smoothly enough or the Sunsun 402B is just crap, so there was too much restriction. I'll install a CO2 ladder in the tank as a temporary option.


In the DIY Co2 Citric Acid thread someone mentioned that the ladder didn't work as well as the ceramic diffuser.


----------



## boredom.is.me

I have experience with both. I'll take a ladder any day of the week. The only time a ceramic will be better is if you have it near a power head, but ten you just end up with micro bubbles everywhere instead of actual diffusion.

Either way, the ladder would only be temporary.


----------



## Hilde

Jaggedfury said:


> *Paintball Co2 ASA On/Off Valve 2 Threads $10 - $60 depending on brand.
> Paintball Co2 Gauge - $5 - $10 depending on brand.
> *


I have found that it is best to buy an ASA valve with a gauge, aprox $10 on fleebay


----------



## haril

boredom.is.me said:


> I have experience with both. I'll take a ladder any day of the week. The only time a ceramic will be better is if you have it near a power head, but ten you just end up with micro bubbles everywhere instead of actual diffusion.
> 
> Either way, the ladder would only be temporary.


I started off with a ladder and never got enough diffusion and after I switched to a ceramic diffuser it made a huge difference with the amount of dissolved CO2 in the water. I am saying this after comparing with KH/ph measurements and there was obviously crazy pearling after I started using the ceramic diffuser. 

I place the diffuser on the opposite side of the power head and not under it. This keeps forcing most of the micro bubbles tumbling down again and again till they are dissolved completely instead of blowing it around the tank. just my 2 cents. But I think an inline atomizer diffuser will work best. I may even try this one day -


----------



## Hilde

newbieplanter said:


> Saweeeeet set up man looks great. Do u have the item number for the needle valve?
> 
> SS-OVM2-A looks a little better although tha Cv is a little high.


What does Cv mean?


----------



## Hilde

Wald-o said:


> Passing by to thank Jaggedfury and show my Co2 tank setup. I just followed his instructions.
> 
> -20 oz. Co2 tank (Amazon 21$)
> -ASA Valve (Ebay 15$)
> -Swagelok and (Ebay ~20$)
> -Gas Tube Parts (Local Plumbing Store ~10$)
> -Connectors and tubing ( Home Depot 2$, 2$, 5$)
> -Teflon (had some laying around)


Are you still using this? Any changes to it?


----------



## booneylander

Just thought I'd chime in with my new super-low-budget paintball CO2 and review the bits I bought.

20oz Paintball Tank that I had laying around
Single-port ASA valve from eBay (pb-fly) - 10$
Ceramic Diffuser / bubble counter eBay (co2-art) - 15$
CO2 Hose eBay (co2-art) - 5$
1/8 NPT Needle Valve eBay (co2-art) - 15$

When I initially set everything up, the diffuser seemed to be pushing through a lot of huge bubbles and I was a bit underwhelmed but I had read they take a while to settle in sometimes so I left it overnight and now it seems to be working quite well.

The ASA valve was either not quite built right - or something is wrong/different with my CO2 tank, because I don't really have any ability to shut off the ASA valve. It's kind of just on all the time regardless of whether I pull the cap clean off the unit or jam it right down. No leaks or anything, I just wonder if my tank has more threads than it should or if the ASA valve was not assembled properly or something, in any case I'll fiddle with it all whenever it comes time for me to swap out the bottle. 

The needle valve from CO2-ART is pretty tough to manage, it goes from off to a raging torrent of CO2 in about 5 degrees of knob rotation. Now keeping in mind I don't have a regulator, I guess it is to be expected, but I thgouht it might be a bit better than that. Oh well no big deal I'm used to it now I just have to fiddle with it a bit every time I turn it on in the morning. 

Which brings me to my next point, my goal was to use the ASA valve to on/off every morning/night and leave the needle valve static, but since it doesn't seem to be working I have to use the needle valve to shut off every night. Not such a big deal though I suppose as I would have to be modulating the needle valve regularly anyway as the tank pressure drops, again since I'm not running a regulator. 

All in all - for less than 50$ I have CO2 that's effective. So... yay!


----------



## Hilde

Has anyone had the pressure on the output go over 1000? If it does what do you do?


----------



## haril

Hilde said:


> Has anyone had the pressure on the output go over 1000? If it does what do you do?


I don't think it's possible. The store where you will fill up your cylinder will stop filling when the pressure is just under 1000 PSI or so max and there is no way of it increasing beyond this.


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## Algae.

I just bought one of these of craigslist for 15 bucks except the co2 bottle expired a month ago with a full tank of co2 in it, still a damn sick deal though.

Is it recommended to turn this thing off manually at night?


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## Hilde

Algae. said:


> I just bought one of these of craigslist for 15 bucks except the co2 bottle expired a month ago with a full tank of co2 in it, still a damn sick deal though.
> 
> Is it recommended to turn this thing off manually at night?





Jaggedfury said:


> I leave it on 24/7. Needle valve is adjusted to 2bps. Been running like this for almost close to a year, no problems with tank or algae.
> 
> If I wanted to, I can always turn it off at night and turn it back on in the morning when my lights switches on. It's fairly easy to adjust, you'll be surprised.


Jaggedfury leaves his on 24/7


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## Hilde

Thinking of mounting the paintball tank horizontal on the wall. I wonder how it will put to much pressure on the needle of the tank? Any thoughts anybody?


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## Darkblade48

Hilde said:


> Thinking of mounting the paintball tank horizontal on the wall. I wonder how it will put to much pressure on the needle of the tank? Any thoughts anybody?


CO2 cylinders should not be mounted horizontally, unless you want liquid CO2 to come out...


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## Rinfish

would this be possible with a 15g tank?


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## Hilde

Darkblade48 said:


> CO2 cylinders should not be mounted horizontally, unless you want liquid CO2 to come out...


I had a feeling it was a bad idea. Thanks!!

Bump:


Rinfish said:


> would this be possible with a 15g tank?


Yes!! Found a thread with 1 using it in 15g tank. Post #1 here tells you how long it will last. Another version of paintball tank Co2 system here.


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## Padres1234

I had a question about the Needle valve. I can't find the ones from Lowes or Homedepot described in the guide. Would this one from amazon work?

Watts LFA41 Compression Angle Needle Valve, 1/4-Inch C x 1/8-Inch MIP - Flush Valves - Amazon.com

If not does anyone have any other suggestions?


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## kevmo911

Padres1234 said:


> I had a question about the Needle valve. I can't find the ones from Lowes or Homedepot described in the guide. Would this one from amazon work?
> 
> Watts LFA41 Compression Angle Needle Valve, 1/4-Inch C x 1/8-Inch MIP - Flush Valves - Amazon.com
> 
> If not does anyone have any other suggestions?


It's been pretty well established in this thread and in many others that this type of setup is an all-around pretty bad, dangerous idea. But yes, if you follow the instructions originally spelled out in this thread, your link is the type of valve that is talked about.

But, seriously, don't do it.


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## Padres1234

Ok thanks! I didn't have time to read through the whole thread so thanks for the update!

Is there any other DIY C02 guides that you know of that work and are safe?

Thank you again!


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## iy73

Hello,

Thanks Jaggedfury for these detailed setup instructions. I have followed these and have a 20oz setup running on a 24G Tank. The only problem I am going through is I cant set a stable flow of CO2 from it. I have bubble counter and but not using gauge. When adjusting Needle valve I am unable to get stable flow. Bubbles when setup to 2bps keep going slower and slower and after few hours I see less than 1bps. 

Any help greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Regards,
Ron


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## jacob.morgan78

kevmo911 said:


> It's been pretty well established in this thread and in many others that this type of setup is an all-around pretty bad, dangerous idea. But yes, if you follow the instructions originally spelled out in this thread, your link is the type of valve that is talked about.
> 
> But, seriously, don't do it.


Any interest in saving me some time and giving me a TL;DR version on why it's not a good idea??

Thanks


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## dkraft12

Hi, i recently set something very similar to this up. I've been having issues getting my co2 to a decent level with the needle valve. I only require about 1bubble/sec, but in order to achieve that the needle valve needs to be pretty much all the way closed and over time the co2 stops flowing almost completely. If i open it up a little more, too much co2 flows. Has anyone else experienced this/have any tips? I was thinking about upgrading to a regulator w/ solenoid but that would effectively double the cost of the whole setup, where the whole reason i went this direction was for lower cost.


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## R2D2

jacob.morgan78 said:


> Any interest in saving me some time and giving me a TL;DR version on why it's not a good idea??
> 
> Thanks


I would also appreciate it if further information is provided.

Thanks.


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## Hagis30

OK, after going through all 161 pages of this post it has been extremely informative and although I am doing as much of this build DIY as I can, at first I will go with the pre-fabed regulator and valves. Once everything is built and established I will come back to this and experiment. Thank you to all on this thread!


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## Jmcdaniel0

kevmo911 said:


> It's been pretty well established in this thread and in many others that this type of setup is an all-around pretty bad, dangerous idea. But yes, if you follow the instructions originally spelled out in this thread, your link is the type of valve that is talked about.
> 
> But, seriously, don't do it.



care to elaborate?


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