# Green Spot Algae Treatment Suggestions.



## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

if you're absolutely sure about the balance that removes other algae, stick with it. i think the GSA will dissapear eventually. i've ignored some at the back of my tank (because scrapping is almost impossible) and they dissapear by itself. i've seen in a friend's tank GSA on anubias leaves, after his tank is doing well for 2-3 weeks the GSA are gone by itself.


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## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

ikuzo said:


> if you're absolutely sure about the balance that removes other algae, stick with it. i think the GSA will dissapear eventually. i've ignored some at the back of my tank (because scrapping is almost impossible) and they dissapear by itself. i've seen in a friend's tank GSA on anubias leaves, after his tank is doing well for 2-3 weeks the GSA are gone by itself.


Many thanks Ikuzo  I hope you are right. A few months ago, the tank was in such bad shape. I converted my 40 gallon into a planted tank, it was my first go at a planted tank, and being a newbie I made a lot of mistakes which resulted in a huge algae bloom. I was ready to tear the tank down and start over. That option is still there, but given the improvement, I may just wait and see what happens. But then again, given the tank is so.....old(9+ years) and approaching the end of its life cycle in terms of being water worthy, I may just tear it down in a few months. 

This was the tank at its worst on Sept 12 2007









This is the tank as of today. I know it needs a lot of trimming, but I will be doing that later as I need the clippings for the 15 gallon high ADA Aquasoil Amazonian II based tank I was going to be setting up.


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## Wö£fëñxXx (Dec 2, 2003)

Homer, 
You are burning way to much light my friend, 2x55 AHS kit is an over abundance on the 40g.
That is why the fierce algae issues.

Use 1x55 and raise it up, hang it above for about a month and you will see a big difference in the algae issues, continue to dose as usual.


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## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

Wö£fëñxXx said:


> Homer,
> You are burning way to much light my friend, 2x55 AHS kit is an over abundance on the 40g.
> That is why the fierce algae issues.
> 
> Use 1x55 and raise it up, hang it above for about a month and you will see a big difference in the algae issues, continue to dose as usual.


O.k. many thanks. I thought that 3 watts per gallon on the 40 gallon is what I needed to shoot for with pressurized c02(set at 30 ppm)and high plant density. I have 110 Watts total over the tank vs 120 Watts. I have less than 2.8/watts per gallon and some of the plants as you can see are growing leggy and shooting towards the light, so I figured that if anything I may have too little light.. As part of the redemial action, I did reduce the photo-period to 8 hours and raised the light about 10 inches higher over the tank to reduce intensity. 

O.k. I am game for testing with one tube only. Which one would you suggest that I leave on the 10000 K tube or the 5500 K tube or does it matter. Many thanks for your input and help Wö£fëñxXx


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## Wö£fëñxXx (Dec 2, 2003)

Either bulb should work, alternate them once a week or every other day or daily, whichever is easiest for you.
The plants are growing leggy because you have to much light, all of you're plants are relatively easy growers and some are fast growers.
In order to burn that much, light has to be governed and C02 must be mastered.
Dual needle valves with dual diffusers would help, but burning that much light is kind of ridiculous really. so turning it down a few notches will makes things a lot easier to manage with less headache.


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## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

Wö£fëñxXx said:


> Either bulb should work, alternate them once a week or every other day or daily, whichever is easiest for you.
> The plants are growing leggy because you have to much light, all of you're plants are relatively easy growers and some are fast growers.
> In order to burn that much, light has to be governed and C02 must be mastered.
> Dual needle valves with dual diffusers would help, but burning that much light is kind of ridiculous really. so turning it down a few notches will makes things a lot easier to manage with less headache.


Many thanks for your help  It is much appreciated.


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## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

that is bad case of GSA. here's mine about a year ago :

see the nerite eating trails.









36 hour after adding one nerite snail, munch munch.









just to give you an idea on how effective nerite snail is againts GSA on glass.


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## spypet (Sep 15, 2006)

after a lot of experimenting, I found that decreasing light duration is the best way to keep GSA away. I'm down to 7.5 hours with a 2 hour siesta, and both my 4wpg tanks are nearly GSA free, and my plants and moss are growing fine. at 8.0 hours I was scraping it off every 2 weeks, so I was amazed to discover how even 30 minutes could make a difference. 4wpg may sound like a lot of light, but remember after 6-9 Months your bulbs dim, so I'm probably actually closer to 3wpg right now, as one of my 4 tubes is a colormax, which does not deliver it's full wattage in plant usable light.

nerites may clean GSA more than most snails, but they leave white calcified egg dots behind which are as much a nuisance as the GSA was :icon_roll besides if you have that much GSA on your glass, your plants must be coated with the stuff, so nerites are a temporary fix to a bigger problem.

another factor with GSA, and pretty much every other algae, may be excess macros in the water. I have a shrimp breeding tank with only a dozen anubius plants, just 2wpg for 8 hours, yet the glass and slate bottom gets full of GSA that my shrimp fry seem to endlessly enjoy farming. _because this tank currently lacks any substrate, I over spec'ed my canister filter's biological media load._


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

Homer_Simpson said:


> I have a 40 gallon tank that was overrun with just about all kinds of algae imaginable.
> 
> 
> I have heard that spot treatment with a phosphate solution could help with GSA, but no one seems to know the proper amount to mix in a solution of water. Any ideas??


Homer,

You crack me up man! I have been battling GSA too, but mine is starting to come under control. I am not spot treating phosphates into the tank, but rather just dry dosing them streight in. One sixteenth of a tsp every other day.

I am running a 29 with 130W PC lighting on the tank for an 8 hr photo period, so I wouldn't necessarily say that you are overdoing it with the 110W over yours. 

I don't know where I am at with my CO2 as far as PPM because I don't have a drop checker (working on it). I do know that my glosso is pearling after about 3 to 4 hours and my plants are growing like crazy. I am pumping about 2 to 3 BPS into my reactor as of now. The only kind of algae growth I have had over the last few weeks is the light green algae that grows on the glass, and even that has been minimal. I don't have snails on purpose, but there are some Ramshorns and a few other types of pest snails that probably came in on plants. The ramshorns are eating the remaining GSA off of the glass and some of the broad leafed plants, and for that I have not been removing them from my tank. 

The only thing that I have changed recently is my addition of Nitrates. I had bought an expensive Sera Nitrate test kit that was measuring 40 to 50 PPM of nitrates in my water. After reading one of Tom's posts, I decided to not trust my test kit and dose the EI dose of nitrates into my tanks. I have noticed no bad consequences by doing this. Plants are growing great and there has not been any algae problems as a result of "excess" nitrates.

If anyone in this forum should be having major algae problems it is me. My bioload is very high. I appear to be keeping everything in check though with pressurized CO2, a lot of stem plants, extreme filtration and water flow(XP2 on a 29 gallon) , and dosing EI ferts religiously. I have also been sporadically dosing Excel into the tank to clear up some remaining (but not spreading) BBA.

What are the dimentions of your 40? I am curious more about the depth than anything.


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## spypet (Sep 15, 2006)

BiscuitSlayer said:


> The ramshorns are eating the remaining GSA off of the glass and some of the broad leafed plants, and for that I have not been removing them from my tank.


I was surprised to read this, as I've never noticed my Red Ramshorn, Spixi, or even my Cherry Shrimp making a dent in my GSA, even though they all seem to linger at the spots on my glass and anubias leaves, where GSA is found.


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

I had some GSA on my amazon sword leaves, and it is dissappearing too quickly for me to say that it is happening naturally. I also found snail egg deposits close to where the algae was. Maybe this particular species of ramshorns eats it? It definately is from a species that was not intentionally introduced. They are plain looking small (about the size of 1/2 a dime) ramshorns.


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## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

BiscuitSlayer said:


> ...
> What are the dimentions of your 40? I am curious more about the depth than anything.


The dimensions are:
Width: 24"
Depth:19"
Height: 20.5"

Ikuzo: I was going to try a nerite snail, but don't have a tight fitting lid and the snail may just end up in the overflow filter. I don't know how, but two otos landed in the overflow filter and died.


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

Homer,

My 29 is 18 3/4" high, and I have 130W PC over it. I would not necessarily say you had/have too much light. I run mine for 8 hrs.

One thing I would mention is to up the phosphates a little. Mine have gone from dosing low phosphates with GSA on the rise to dosing the right amount or a little more to having GSA on the decline.


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

What exactly is the "Overflowfilter"? I'm not sure I am familiar with this.


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## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

Difficult to describe in words but here goes: 

There is a partioned compartment to the right of the tank with filter media and bioballs. Just above the tip of that at the very to of the partition, water from the aquarium flows into the tank and is filtered, the filtered water is channeled into a second compartment that is divided from the first. That second compartment has a power head that has a hose that is plumbed into return piping that is inside the aquarium. The water continuously overflows, is filtered, and the power head forces the filtered water back into the tank, via the hose and plumbing(attached pipes) in the tank. The guy who sold me the tank 9 years ago, when I knew nothing about fish, told me that he had tested without water changes and could get away with not doing water changes for months and months. The tank was designed for unplanted use, I suspect as I read the type of filtration is designed to maintain highly oxygenated water. I never did try to run the tank without water changes, planted and unplanted, so I cannot say if what he was saying was BS or not. But I can honestly tell you that many of the fish in the tank right now are the original fish that I put in when I bought the tank, I have had virtually no fish deaths, and many of the fish are 9+ years old. The additional submersible fluval filter and UV sterilizer were added later.


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## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

Based on the mixed input I am receiving here, I am going to try a little compromise and test. I am going to set the tubes on two seperate timers to mimick "noonburst." Right now I am running split photoperiod of 8 hours total and it not working with the GSA. I will set one bulb to burn for a total of 4 hours, then will set the other bulb to come on after 4 hours. I am considering having the second bulb come on between 10a.m. to 3 p.m. This is where the Amano Takishi tank researchers say plants in nature benefit from the most light. Both bulbs will be on for a total of 4 hours but total photo period will be 8 as the second will come on after 4 and there will be light for 8 hours. I tried this before and it made no difference but this was 3 months ago before all the water changes and excel dosing, plus I didn' test noonburst for a long enough period of time and was going back and forth between split photoperiod and noon-burst so I didn't give noonbust lighting a fair trial. I may reduce total photoperiod by 30 minutes to 7.5 as well. 

I am not comfortable dosing anymore phosphates as levels tested with a calibrated test kit indicate consistent 10+ ppm phosphates right out of the tap.

If the noonburst lighting method does not resolve the Green Spot Algae, then I will reduce lighting by one tube.

Thanks everyone for your help and suggestions.


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## FrostyNYC (Nov 5, 2007)

Homer,
First off, I love all the green. Second, what are all those blue things on your substrate? They look like some kind of bio-ball filter media. What's their purpose?


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## loachlady5 (Dec 9, 2007)

I would be careful with the phosphate, especially if you don't have a very reliable test kit. When I started adding it, I developed a horrible algae problem. I actually added it for this same purpose - to combat GSA. It worked, but it seems to have caused a different kind of algae which is worse. I would hate for all your hard work so far to be messed up.


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

loachlady5 said:


> I would be careful with the phosphate, especially if you don't have a very reliable test kit. When I started adding it, I developed a horrible algae problem. I actually added it for this same purpose - to combat GSA. It worked, but it seems to have caused a different kind of algae which is worse. I would hate for all your hard work so far to be messed up.



What kind of algae problem did you develop as a result of dosing phosphates? How much were you dosing and what size is your tank? I don't have a reliable test kit for phosphates and evidently my "reliable" calibrated test kit for nitrates isn't as reliable as I thought. I am getting to the point where I don't trust test kits for anything other than PH.

I am becoming a firm believer in the EI method regardless of what test kits say. If I payed attention to my expensive calibrated nitrate test kit, I wouldn't dose any nitrates in my tank as it says that I have about 50 ppm without dosing KNO3. I noticed some deficiencies in some of my plants that were linked to no nitrates, so I started dosing KNO3. The plants jumped back to life almost immediately and my livestock is doing fine (including inverts sensitive to nitrates).

I have actually overdosed phosphates (2 X suggested EI) for a short period with no ill effects to any of my plants or animals. The only thing I saw was the GSA recede a little quicker. I am, however, pretty religious about my weekly water change.


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## loachlady5 (Dec 9, 2007)

The algae I developed was BBA. However, it could of course be a coincidence that it showed up after the addition of phosphates. Iron was later added, which seemed to make it even worse.

With regard to ferts, I have almost no knowledge. I'm still trying to figure out a method. What you said intrigues me - perhaps I'm wasting a lot of time w/ all the test kits.


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

loachlady5 said:


> The algae I developed was BBA. However, it could of course be a coincidence that it showed up after the addition of phosphates. Iron was later added, which seemed to make it even worse.
> 
> With regard to ferts, I have almost no knowledge. I'm still trying to figure out a method. What you said intrigues me - perhaps I'm wasting a lot of time w/ all the test kits.



BBA is an animal all to itself. While it can gain a foothold when conditions are right I don't believe that it can be contributed to excess ferts. I too recently had a small BBA outbreak. I bumped my CO2 and it stopped spreading. It has been slowly receding too. I also switched from HOB filters to a canister and from misting CO2 to an inline reactor.


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## loachlady5 (Dec 9, 2007)

BiscuitSlayer said:


> BBA is an animal all to itself. While it can gain a foothold when conditions are right I don't believe that it can be contributed to excess ferts. I too recently had a small BBA outbreak. I bumped my CO2 and it stopped spreading. It has been slowly receding too. I also switched from HOB filters to a canister and from misting CO2 to an inline reactor.


Very encouraging! I am relieved that my BBA has decreased since I added the pressurized CO2. The concentration of CO2 still isn't high enough, though, so I can't wait to see what happens when it is. In the meantime...still got the staghorn AND some BBA. I never had the staghorn until the CO2 strangely (or at least I didn't see or recognize it).


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## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

FrostyNYC: The tank started off as a non-planted tank and was like that for a good 9 years(including most of the original fish). I recently(around 6 months) attempted to convert it to a planted tank with all the bells, toys and whistles(pressurized c02, top of the line Rex Grigg Regulator, and AH supply light kit). The blue media was placed in the tank originally to increase a surface for nitrifying bacteria to colonize. It never caused problems for the many years that it had been in there. And there was even some mulm that built up on the media. Being too lazy to remove the media, I left it in there.

LoachLady5: Like BiscuitSlayer, I am also a strong believer in Tom Barr's EI system of fertilization, although I was originally critical of it. The one thing that people need to keep in mind is to not be so rigid with the method as even Tom Barr states that you may need to taylor the method for your own particular tank, depending on your fish stock levels, c02, tap water parameters, lighting levels, etc. So you may have to dose 2x/week instead of 3x/week and you may have to adjust the amount of phosphates, nitrates, and trace element mix. Whatever you do, the goal is to always dose an excess of what the plants may utilize within a week, then to do a weeky 50% water change to eliminate the excess and reset the tank.

In this link LeftC provides a very precise method of calibrating nitrate and phosphate test kits. The method even meets with the approval of Tom Barr and Rex Grigg, two highly reputed figures.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/water-parameters/52447-nitrate-testing.html

Now, I have calibrated both my nitrate and phosphate test kits using the method and both the nitrate and phosphate test kits have tested accurate.
Using the phosphate test kit, my tap water tests over 5 ppm for phosphates right out of the tap. Recently, I decided to ignore the test kit readings and dosed phosphates at the regular amounts. While I did not get any algae, I did notice some leaves turning brown or black starting from the edges with the brown or black working its way inward. I saw this phenomena in all my tanks high light, high tech, and low tech, low light, different substrates, c02, non-c02. From doing some research, this is a classic symptom of excess phosphates in the water. The plant leaves combined with the fact that my phosphate test kit confirms that I may need to reduce or cut out phosphate dosing, as my tap water, the fish waste, and the fish food may be providing more than enough phosphates. The plan is to reduce phosphate dosing to see what happens and eventually eliminate it to see what happens. 50% weekly water changes in my case will not remove excess phosphates as my tap water is already so high in phosphates that the replacement just adds to any excess phosphates(beyond that provided by EI dosing) in the tank.

Update, with the change in lighting the GSA is beginning to recede. But the plants are beginning to take a beating. The Ambulia stems are growing more thinner, weaker, and appear to be dwarfing, so I may have to bump up the lighting a little at a time to try and find the right balance.


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## loachlady5 (Dec 9, 2007)

Glad you're having some success and thanks for the link.


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## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

congratulations!


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## loachlady5 (Dec 9, 2007)

Homer_Simpson said:


> The plan is to reduce phosphate dosing to see what happens and eventually eliminate it to see what happens.


I have found this product to be effective for phosphate removal/reduction. It supposedly will not leak the phosphate back into the water once saturated, which other types do. Because it could potentially remove all phosphate and other elements like iron, this could cause problems and would only be good for a quick and temporary fix. It seemed to help reduce algae for me when I had no pressurized CO2 in my tank yet:

http://www.magnavore.co.uk/phosphateremover.html


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

After upping my phosphate dosing in the tank, I have noticed some detrimental effects to my plants. I am loosing some healthy leaves and my glosso has died back a little. All of my GSA with the exception of what I would consider normal is gone.

Now I am cutting back on the phosphates to 1/2 of the EI recommendation. I might cut them out completely for a while after my weekly water change this week.


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## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

*Green Spot Algae No More*

FWIW, the only change I made the tank was a switch to 8 hour noonburst photoperiod and the Green Spot Algae has myteriously vanished as quickly as it appeared. I tried split 8 hour photoperiod but plant growth was being negatively effected(funny considering that plants in another tank are still growing like weeds with 8.5 hour split - 2 hour siesta).

So, with no other changes made to the tank, I think it is safe to conclude that at least in my case that either noonburst photoperiod did the trick or the tank just balanced itself over time which would have happened without the switch to noonburst.


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