# Fluval or Eheim? I wanted Eheim, but store talked me into Fluval. Mistake?



## mott (Nov 23, 2006)

Hey Complexity, Glad to see you made it over to TPT

I remember the thread at fish geeks when you wrote about the salesguy dissing the Eheim.
I did try to talk you into Eheim...I'm sorry you are not happy with your purchase.
Many will say your fluval is a great filter and swear by it, for them I'm sure it is but once you see the quality that Eheims are known for you probably won't buy another brand.
Bottom line is if you aren't happy with it by all means complain to the owner 
and ask what can be done...
IMO Eheim is a far better performer and I have a feeling most here will agree.


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## NeverEndingNinja (Jan 4, 2008)

There is a bit of Fluval vs. Eheim action on this board. I think it really boils down to what you want. Fluval will get the job done, but Eheim's are like Cadillacs. Well, thats not fair to say. They're like Cadillacs used to be.:flick: If you don't think the Fluval is good enough, get the Eheim.

Anyhow, this guy sounds like a tool. You probably would have been better having a moving crew install this stuff for you, then you wouldn't have been bullied around by this jerk.

I'd attempt to return the filter to the store, and if you don't mind going to other LFS for your gear in the future, I'd give this guy a piece of my mind.


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## mott (Nov 23, 2006)

The guy was a tool^^^ he tried to tell her it's hard to get Eheim parts LOL!


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Seems like there's always a know-it-all jerk at the LFS, whether they're really trying to be a salesman or are genuinely naive fish snobs. Just remember these four words to protect yourself when those guys try to sabotage your attempt to go home with what you want... "I already have that".

And anyone who fails to realize the advantage of networking information in a place as large as the internet is a total moron. They hate it because they know they are losing tons of money to it, which sucks for them and even kinda sucks for us, but that's just the way free enterprise goes.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

mott said:


> Hey Complexity, Glad to see you made it over to TPT


Hi! Great to see you here! I figured since I'm getting heavier into plants, I'd better mosey over here and start learning from the plant geeks over here. 



> I remember the thread at fish geeks when you wrote about the salesguy dissing the Eheim.


Believe it or not, that was a different guy from a different store. It turned out the reason that guy's prices were so low was because he was pocketing the tax money! I walked right at the moment of sale when the con game began. I may like to save money, but I do not do business with thieves.

But, yes, this guy further added to the confusion. My head has been spinning so much that by the time it came to actually getting the filter, I was worn out and basically was in the "whatever" stage. And with my luck, this happened when I was with Mr. Pushy whom I suspect probably gets a kickback (bonus) for selling Hagen products.


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## fshfanatic (Apr 20, 2006)

Hard to get ehiem parts? WOW, now that is a new one. Even people that refuse to pay the price for an eheim would never out and lie about the product.

X3 He is definately a tool, did he not sell Eheim is that why he pushed you into a Fluval?

Dont get me wrong, I like fluval. They are a decent filter. I would rate them just below Eheim and just above Rena.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Thank you all! I needed to hear that. I'm a nice person who does not like to get into confrontations with people, but I don't like being a doormat either. For some reason, this Fluval just hasn't felt right. I can't say why. I don't like how it primes. I don't like the configuration of the baskets inside. I don't like the noise it makes. I just do not like it. (Why are green eggs and ham coming to mind about now? :icon_lol I think I don't like it simply because it is not what I wanted! It may be a fine filter, but it's not what I wanted.

As far as this store goes, it's across town so it's not one I'll go to very often, if at all. (Mott, you'll love this one - check out my post at FG). This is the same store that also sold me a plant, saying "oh, that's another kind of java moss". It turned out to be riccia. :icon_eek: I kid you not!

I will give the guy a piece of my mind, using my feet and purse to do the talking. To me, there's only one way to deal with a fool. Nod your head a lot, say thank you a lot, and leave, laughing your (body part of choice) off all the way back home. When someone is so foolish to make the claims this guy has made, no amount of telling him off will sink into his brain far enough to make a dent. So it would be a waste of my time and energy to tell him diddly. Or better said... he just ain't worth it.


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

fshfanatic said:


> Hard to get ehiem parts? WOW, now that is a new one. Even people that refuse to pay the price for an eheim would never out and lie about the product.
> 
> X3 He is definately a tool, did he not sell Eheim is that why he pushed you into a Fluval?
> 
> Dont get me wrong, I like fluval. They are a decent filter. I would rate them just below Eheim and just above Rena.


How can you dislike rena's that much, they're great filters...


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## fshfanatic (Apr 20, 2006)

CmLaracy said:


> How can you dislike rena's that much, they're great filters...


Never said I disliked Renas. I simply stated I think Eheim and Fluval are a better filter.


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## jinx© (Oct 17, 2007)

If the Fluvals working for you I wouldnt be too concerned about it.

I've owned and used about all makes and they all move water and filter it with each maker having its perks and quirks. 

Some do it slightly better than others, some more quietly than others, and then some for more or less money than others. You can buy into the hype of any of the above brands, but they all work in the end.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

jinx, I hear you. That's why I asked the question before immediately running to return this filter. As far as the short hose, after he attempted to tell me that it didn't need to be longer (yeah, right), he then said if I come by, he'll give me another hose.

That's why I said I think the real problem is that I wanted an Eheim and I let this guy bully me into the Fluval. Even that might not have been so bad if he wasn't so outrageous on so many other things. Part of my decision making process of going with the Fluval was thinking he was more experienced and professional. However, that all went out the window as he tried to bully me into other things I didn't want.

I forgot to mention one of his other arguments when trying to talk me out of getting TEK lights. He said that ALL lights, T5, PC, Halogen, all lights put out the _exact same heat_. I mean, c'mon. Who didn't learn this lesson with incandescent lighting vs. fluorescent decades ago?

With the guy's reputation below mud, I now question everything he told me. And now I wish I hadn't allowed myself to get bullied into this Fluval.

The water has never seemed sparkling clear to me even when the filter was running for 3 days straight with nothing but substrate and water (and it's not substrate stirred up causing it). And then there's the noise. If the apartment heater is on, it masks the noise. But when it goes off, I can hear the filter sitting 10' away from it with the filter enclosed in the cabinet. When I move this tank to my house, it'll be in my bedroom about 5' away from my bed. I don't want that noise in there. My Rena XP2 with no cabinet enclosure is much more quite than this Fluval.

What's happening, I think, is that I'm being unhappy with every nit-picking thing I notice about this Fluval, not because the filter itself is bad, but because it's NOT what I wanted. It's like getting a beautiful, sleek, stainless steel, bowfront 90g tank with the works when what you really wanted was a nice, rectangle, cherry oak tank. There's nothing wrong with the first one, it's just not what YOU wanted. So then you begin to nitpick everything you notice about the first one. I think that's what's happening here. If it was an Eheim making that noise, I probably would pass it off as "oh, that's just the noise canisters make."

I also don't like the way this guy lied to bully me into this filter. That's just not right.


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## jinx© (Oct 17, 2007)

Go ask to speak to the manager's manager and get the Eheim. 

This is one of those would've, could've, should've cases, and you won't be happy until you do.


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## shwerm601 (Dec 16, 2007)

jinx© said:


> If the Fluvals working for you I wouldnt be too concerned about it.
> 
> I've owned and used about all makes and they all move water and filter it with each maker having its perks and quirks.
> 
> Some do it slightly better than others, some more quietly than others, and then some for more or less money than others. You can buy into the hype of any of the above brands, but they all work in the end.


From my experience, I agree. I havnt used too many canisters, but all I have used have had +/-'s... lets make a super filter. Maybe we could make a list of all the greatest things about canister filters and then send it off to each company and see who can do it better? roud:


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Maybe I should just close my eyes and do eeny, meeny, miny, moe?

So for those who favor Eheims, do you think it's worth the trouble for me to buy an Eheim and take back this Fluval? What would you do in my shoes. (Do not use money as part of the equation.) :help: 

Or maybe I should just shut up, quit whining, and live with what I've got.


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## jinx© (Oct 17, 2007)

I wasnt saying I'd buy the Eheim, just saying I dont think you're going to be happy until you do. ...lol....and all this coming from someone who runs a Rena.


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## NeverEndingNinja (Jan 4, 2008)

If money is not part of the equation, get what you want. Its pretty easy, IMO. Sounds like you're totally discontent with the Fluval, and there is no point in settling with it. You're putting this fish tank together for enjoyment, because you want it, and there is no reason to go with anything subpar if thats not what you want. Don't sell yourself short.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

That's what I really want to do!

But I really don't want to have to put up with his bullying tactics. I have my reasons. I know it's my problem. But it does help to know that it's not unreasonable to return the Fluval even though it's been installed and running.

I know, in the end, I have my cc on my side. So push comes to shove, I can get my money back. And I don't care if I never shop there again.

It's the confrontation that I don't want.

Would you guys call first or just walk in with the filter and receipt in hand, asking for the refund.

I wonder what days the manager isn't in the store? Maybe there is someone higher up that I can talk to? I shouldn't be put in the position to be afraid to return something, especially when I had asked for something else in the first place.

Does anyone know if this store is a chain or not? It's called Aquarium World, and it has "by Anything Fishy" under the sign. If they're a chain, maybe I can talk to the manager's boss so I can remedy the situation in a civilized way without having to put up with this guy's bullying. I just want to conduct a business transaction, not have a debate.


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## NeverEndingNinja (Jan 4, 2008)

I'd just walk in, and demand a refund, not ask for it.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Ninja, if I gave you the filter and receipt, would you do it for me?


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## fshfanatic (Apr 20, 2006)

All depends on whether or not the store will take the return.

This would have never happened to me as I am a bit more "opinionated" and "vocal" than most. 

If they will take the return, I wouldnt hesitate to return it. As you can tell by my sig, I am an Eheim man. I have owned them all and now I just stick with what I like best.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Good question, fshfanatic. Looking at the receipt, it says, "Custom, Special, and Non-Stock Order Deposits are Non-Refundable."

Well, this wasn't a deposit. It's not custom, special or most especially non-stock. Other than that, there's no mention regarding returns.

Ah, here's the catch. Found this clause:

"This discount is applied to multiple items in this kit. In the event of a return of a kit item, items will not be credited at full value, but rather at discounted value."

Hmm.. 

Everything came to around $1,650 (w/o tax or installation). The full discount was just over $200. They charged me just under $200 for the Fluval. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to calculate their discount percentage.

If they give me problems, I can call my cc company on the spot. Chargebacks cost them extra, don't they?


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## fshfanatic (Apr 20, 2006)

$200 wow, they raped you dry twice. OUCH


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

You think they raped me on that, get this:

Eco-Complete: 6 bags each at $38.95  

You have no idea what I've gone through just to get this tank. At this point, I didn't care about the price. I just wanted to get the thing and be done with it.

I could have paid a whole lot less if I dealt with the guy who does cash deals under the table, but then I would have NO guarantees of any kind because I would have no receipt of any kind.

Or I could continue to beg the one company that promised to call me with a quote 4 times. They never called.

Or the company that did bring out a 90g oceanic setup with a warped stand. Then refused to exchange it, claiming they sold it to me under cost, refused a cc refund, wanted to give me a company check (at this point, I insisted on cash). They kept going on about the cc refund costing them more money.

Or the company that had great prices and what I wanted, but was changing ownership, couldn't order anything, and too short handed to deliver.

Or how about the pet store in which I bought some wood and rocks, only to find out later that it was USED, taken from their tanks that they shut down because all the fish had died.

But then there's always Petsmart and Petco, right?

I went 'round and 'round for months! By the time I got to this place, I just wanted a tank!! To hell with the prices! :angryfire 

And that's how I got bullied into the Fluval.


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## jinx© (Oct 17, 2007)

$1650 goes a long ways on craigslist.

You probably could have found three 90g setups with each brand of filter mentioned so far, and ran a comparison test right at home.


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## imeridian (Jan 19, 2007)

When I read this thread I get the impression it's much less Fluval vs. Eheim, but more about being taken advantage of. When I was setting up my first tank I bought a Penguin HOB, it was noisy, so I exchanged it for an Emperor (yes, silly me... X2) and it was louder than I could believe to be possible. I'd say I was talked into that one, I just didn't buy it from the guy talking me into it. I went straight to Eheim after that, glad I did. I've been tempted to try out Fluval or Rena, but my prior experiences make that difficult. The extra cost of an Eheim is worth not having to risk the frustration experienced in the beginning. 

The bottom line, as jinx pointed out, is that you'll not be happy if you keep the Fluval, it doesn't matter if it's the greatest filter on the planet. I suspect not only will you be happier with the Eheim, but there'll be an additional overall sense of satisfaction achieved by standing up for yourself and demanding the exchange.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

I could have. In fact, I was watching craigslist. But I never found a match between what was offered and what I wanted.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

indiboi said:


> but there'll be an additional overall sense of satisfaction achieved by standing up for yourself and demanding the exchange.


Yup. That's why I said earlier that it's my problem.

I used to be very aggressive (inappropriately so). The root cause has been found and I'm still working on it. However, stripped of those defenses, I now have to learn to be assertive, not passive. I used to be overpowered as a child, and it scares the hell out of me when someone, especially a man, behaves in a way that _feels_ overpowering to me. This is partly why I'm living in an apartment even though I have been married for almost 24 years and have owned a home for 14 years that's just 15 minutes away.

Enough with it. I'm not shy about it. I was abused as a child, including being sexually abused by my father for over 8 years. When I finally told, I was kicked out. No sympathy wanted, please. It's just factual to maybe help explain why I'm being so weird about this stupid Fluval canister.

This man is triggering my PSTD. As a result, I'm having problems thinking clearly.

What you are all doing for me is helping me see that (1) it is not unreasonable to return the filter simply because I don't like it and (2) it's not unreasonable to return the filter after it has already been installed and used.

If returning this filter is what the average "Joe" would do, then it will help me to stand firm and make the return. I just really needed to know if it was worth what I will go through to do this. I literally could not even sleep last night over this (the fear).

I'm sorry if anyone is offended by my openness. If the moderators deem my post inappropriate, I will understand and apologize in advance.

It has been settled. I will buy an Eheim canister filter of my own personal choosing (for better or worse). I will install it into my 75g setup, remove the Fluval, and then take it back to the store for a refund. Regardless of what they do, I will remain firm, but I will also behave in a manner in which when I walk out of that store, I will feel good about how I conducted myself.

Thank you all for your support. You've offered me much more support than I ever expected and probably more than most of you will ever know.

I'll give you an update when I have finished with the return.


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## fshfanatic (Apr 20, 2006)

Return the fluval first. They might try to hose you by refusing. Ask for a refund and buy the eheim elsewhere. Tell them it is noisy or whatever, you just dont want it. PERIOD.

If you like the ProII series get either the 2028 0r 2228 the difference is about $80 or so and a heater. I have a 2026 and I like it. For a "n00b"  it is easier to setup and get running than the classics. You will be happy and so will your fish.. Good luck..

If you go for either of these, I get my replacement pads on ebay from this seller. GREAT price and a great seller. 6 sets for $32. Cant be beat.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

If I return the Fluval first, what would I use to filter my tank?

As far as the store trying to hose me, I'll be okay. Once I make up my mind, I can handle it.

I may be a n00b in a larger tank, and planted at that, but I'm usually pretty good at putting stuff together. I was already thinking of the larger Pro II with the heater (until Mr. Pushy told me if the heater broke, the whole canister would be down). So that's what I'm going to get. If something goes wrong with it, that's how it goes. At least it'll be what I selected.


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## fshfanatic (Apr 20, 2006)

I was under the impression there is nothing in the tank from your sig. Even if there is they could go a couple hours without. Do you have an old air pump and stone or a powerhead?


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## UnusualSuspect (May 25, 2007)

I Googled "Fluval 504" - that seems to be the designation for the foam pads used in an FX5. Did you mean "Fluval 405"?

I run Fluvals on two tanks, a 405 and a 205. I like them. Wiggle them some to get the air out, they quiet down. Yes, the priming pump sucks. I don't use it any more unless I break vacuum on the intake tube. I just fill that mutha up with water before I clamp the lid back on. Its job is to push water through some ceramic noodles, it does it well enough for me. 

Having said that, I agree that this guy saw you coming a mile away. I will not abide a pushy salesman like that, and I'm like you - non-confrontational. You should've just laughed and walked out on the guy when you saw his prices.

The folks at my LFS sometimes (jokingly) yell "cha-ching!" when I walk in the door, but they don't rip me off. Their prices are about the same as I'd get at one of the online places. They'll give me a break on some stuff because they know I'll be back for more. I do favors for them, like nurse a plant back to health, etc. A couple of times they've given me new products to try out, then decided based on my experience whether to stock the item.

I went over to their store one Saturday afternoon with the idea in mind that I was going to "improve" my setup by buying an Eheim to replace the Fluval 405. They had the Eheim model I wanted in stock. I had already owned the Fluval for a long time, so this wasn't a "pick one or the other" situation. All they had to do was take the Eheim off the shelf, run my credit card and wave bye-bye. Instead, they talked me out of it and made no sale at all.

You need to find a LFS like mine...

Regards,
Mike


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

fshfanatic said:


> I was under the impression there is nothing in the tank from your sig. Even if there is they could go a couple hours without. Do you have an old air pump and stone or a powerhead?


Sorry, didn't mean to mislead. I moved some guppies (yeah, I know) and my flash pleco over to help with overcrowding in my 20L.

I have a TINY air pump from a baby 1.5g tank. Not gonna do it.

I do have two HOB filters: both Emperor 280, but geeez, I don't want to hook them up. I keep them only as a emergency backup.

I see what you're saying. You're afraid they simply won't accept a return so if I've already installed the Eheim, then I'll have TWO filters, neither of which I can get my money back on. I'm actually not worried about that. First, I know I'll be successful in the return. But if I'm not (so much for knowing), there's always craigslist, aquabid, and ebay.

As pitiful as I know I've sounded in this thread, I actually do have a backbone. I'll get my refund. And I'll do it while keeping my dignity, too.

In fact, I see no reason why I shouldn't be completely honest with the reason for my return. I feel bullied by a pushy salesman who gave me information that, having verified it, I do not trust (which is my right), the filter was installed incorrectly (hose too short, pulling on uv sterilizer), I had to help install the uv sterilizer because the girl didn't know how to handle the drill, the uv sterilizer wasn't even plugged in, the tank is NOT level as I had paid for, they did NOT give me all the pieces for my uv sterilizer (the parts that mount it to the tank instead of inline — I will get that, too), I had to steam clean the muddy footprints they tracked in that they said they would clean up, but did not before they left, AND the filter is noisy!

Here's my cc for the refund.

Thank you.


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## NeverEndingNinja (Jan 4, 2008)

Right on. 

And no, I wouldn't return the filter for you. You have to do it yourself.:biggrin:


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

UnusualSuspect said:


> Did you mean "Fluval 405"?


Yes, I did. Thank you for catching that. 



> Having said that, I agree that this guy saw you coming a mile away. I will not abide a pushy salesman like that, and I'm like you - non-confrontational. You should've just laughed and walked out on the guy when you saw his prices.


I knew before I entered the store the prices would be high. They have a reputation for that. But I was at the point that I wanted a dang tank, and I wanted it NOW. Yup, easy pickin's, I know. But in truth, the total price wasn't that much higher than most of the other places. The difference is the other places raised the price of the tank/stand with the other stuff cheaper. This place did it the other way. It was the total I was looking at, and I knew how it fit in among the other places.



> You need to find a LFS like mine...


Yes, I sure do. But you sound like a wonderful customer for them, as well. There is one store I know will be good for the future. They were the ones that just could not deliver; otherwise, they've treated me well. There's another store that I liked. Nice owner, eager to help without being pushy, friendly, very clean tanks and excellent fish selection (the kind I want which are not found very commonly). And that's not even all of the stores.

Fortunately, I live SW of Houston so there are a lot of stores to choose from. I've just been amazed at how many stores I've found that have so many problems. In no other market have I ever run across anything like this. But I guess that's just how it goes sometimes.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

NeverEndingNinja said:


> Right on.
> 
> And no, I wouldn't return the filter for you. You have to do it yourself.:biggrin:


*Thank you very much.*


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## fshfanatic (Apr 20, 2006)

I would return it for you. Might be fun.:angryfire


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

LOL! I could always send you in if Mr. Pushy starts giving me a problem! :biggrin:

Now go take care of your strep throat and ear infection. That's gotta hurt!


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## cleekdafish (Jun 13, 2007)

U got bamboozled , man ! return it!


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## EdTheEdge (Jan 25, 2007)

Well I have a 404 and I am very impressed with the amount of water that thing pushes around. I really like mine. But it is being used just as a filter.

When used for what it is designed it does what it advertises. I did have to replace an impellar once. Otherwise rock solid.


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

One thing I like to do when going to a new fish store is to quiz the staff about something that I already know something about. I do this for two reasons. I like to see how quick they are on their feet with the answers that they give and I like to see how good the answers are.

Another thing I like to do is check the store's inventory with regards to plant supplies. Any store that carries a fairly large selection of plants should have macro ferts. The reality is that out of about 8 stores in my immediate area, only one sells these ferts in the seachem line. They also happened to answer the question I posed to them correctly.

I know that this might seem like it doesn't relate to your filter dilema, but to me it does. I know that if I went into the store I was referring to and asked them questions about the two filters, they would more than likely give me enough information to make an informed decision on which one to buy.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

It's funny you mention that, Biscuit, because I have done that regularly when it comes to computers, especially in the earlier days. The sales people (generally young men) would see a middle aged woman walk in and expect I'd no nothing. What they didn't know is that I was a programmer at IBM! :icon_lol: It was actually a little frustrating. But I found if I asked a few basic questions in the beginning, it was easy to figure out who know his business and who didn't.

I'd say I don't know why I didn't think to do that this time, but I know why and it has nothing to do with filters or uneducated sales people. The guy was pushy, but I was the one who allowed myself to be pushed.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

And now it's time for drum roll......

*I'll be returning the Fluval filter next Tuesday!* 

Yup! I called today. When I realized my Eheim wasn't going to arrive until next Monday, I was concerned about waiting that long before attempting to do the return. All that would do is give them more leverage.

But then I thought about it. What happens when you go into something EXPECTING a problem? You generally get exactly what you expect. And the reason is because you go in already on the defensive which always puts the other person on the defensive.

So I called them up and asked for Mr. Pushy. He was with a customer, but would call me back. An hour later, I called back, and he was busy with something else, "could someone else help you?"

Yes, probably so. "I bought a setup from (his name) last week, and I need to return the filter, but my new filter won't be coming in until next Monday which is a whole week away. I wanted to know if I needed to return it now or was it alright if I waited until my new filter came in? If I need to return it now, I can come in tomorrow; I do have a couple HOB filters I can stick on, but I'd really rather not if it's not critical I return the filter tomorrow."

I bet a bunch of you caught on to what I just did. 

On hold. "When did you say you could bring back the filter?" Tuesday of next week unless you need it this week. On hold "Next week will be fine."
Oh, thank you! That's wonderful! I wasn't wanting to have to drag the HOB filters out. This saves me a lot of extra trouble. Tell (his name) I said I really appreciate it. (And, no, I did not lie. I really do appreciate it.)

Not only will I be able to return the filter, but I get to wait until my Eheim comes in AND I did it in a manner that I feel good about myself. No confrontation and everyone walked away feeling fine. Business transaction handled without personal issues interfering.

I'm very happy!


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## imeridian (Jan 19, 2007)

*high five*


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## fshfanatic (Apr 20, 2006)

Thats great... I hope you got the name of the person you talked to on the phone.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

fshfanatic said:


> Thats great... I hope you got the name of the person you talked to on the phone.


Oh, yes! You know I did! :hihi:


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## fishscale (May 29, 2007)

fshfanatic said:


> This would have never happened to me as I am a bit more "opinionated" and "vocal" than most.


Understatement of the year! :thumbsup:


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

It's drum roll time!

I returned the Fluval today! YEA! 

I don't think Mr. Pushy was too happy about it. The guy never smiles. They raped me on the price — again — by saying "certain items have a higher discount than others" when bought as part of a setup. Of course, by some magic, the items I was returning were the "certain items". Oh, and his reason? Freight. It all has to do with "freight". That's also why their Eco-Complete costs nearly $40 a bag; they have to pay "freight". Like no one else does?

I only had a twinge of nerves when I drove into the strip center, but otherwise I was fine. In fact, none of the return bothered me at all! I arrived feeling good, was cheerful the entire time, and left in the same good mood. I won't go back there again, of course. But that's their loss. The little money they raped from me on this transaction doesn't even begin to compare to what a good LFS will make long term with me as a repeat customer.

It's actually pretty sad because that place had been built up to be some dream store. Pricey, but they were supposed to have everything and know everything. They were supposed to be the best of the best. The people there couldn't even tell me the names of the fish I asked about today (I had to inform the guy that a rose line shark is actually a barb; took him a moment to catch on when I reasoned with him that it's not a real shark, that's just what they call it). Maybe once upon a time they were really good; I don't know. But it's sad to see what they are now.

The saga is over! And to now answer my own original question of this thread: YES, Eheim is worth the trouble as compared to the Fluval canister. I respect that some really like Fluvals; that's okay. But for me, the Eheim is in a whole other league. I'm glad I made the return.

Thanks to so many people in this thread that not only helped me technically, but helped offer me support to deal with this guy. I am overwhelmed with how much you all helped me with this. I very truly thank you all.


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## fshfanatic (Apr 20, 2006)

Complexity said:


> They raped me on the price — again — by saying "certain items have a higher discount than others" when bought as part of a setup.


That would have never flown with me. But if you are happy that is what counts.

I would have had him show me where each item was discounted and to be able to back it up. Then I would have called him a liar to his face. Again, that is me.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

I hear you. But I didn't have a leg to stand on. The receipt spells out that some items in a set may be discounted as part of the set and would not receive the full price shown upon return. What they did was group it all together and then put a lump sum discount. So there was no division of what received what discount. How can I fight that?

I did let him know that I thought it was interesting that when I ran calculations, removing the base tank/stand/canopy/glass lids — but added all the rest, the discounted amount on the receipt was EXACTLY to the PENNY the same as a 20% across the board discount.

He knew I knew. I made my point.

I could have fought him on the riccia being sold to me as "another type of java moss", too. Of course, it's dying since I don't have the lighting set up to maintain riccia, but I could have done fine with a moss. That's another $5 plus tax gone.

I figure the guy probably got about $100 extra out of me, maybe more. It's more than I'd like to lose, but it's not thousands either. What I received in exchange is something even more valuable to me. Through him, I faced a part of my father. He may have gotten to me at first, but instead of hiding and being afraid of him, I came back, faced him directly, looked him straight in the eyes, and did what *I* wanted. (Gets deep, but if anyone's interested, it's dealing with a psychological process called Transference.)

I walked away with a lot learned. Mr. Pushy walked away having what appeared to be yet another miserable day. He has to live with himself. I actually feel sorry for the guy. Just think what he must be feeling on the inside if he has a need to be the way he is. That's his life. Day in and day out. Everywhere he goes, there he is.

Today, I did what I set out to do. I returned the filter while conducting myself in a manner in which I feel good about. Next time, I'll be more careful from whom I'm buying and trust myself more. The Mr. Pushy's of the world can only get to me when *I* allow it. I don't have to allow it.


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## lescarpentier (Feb 2, 2008)

Complexity,a mistake isn't a mistake if you learn from it.
Good luck .


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Lescarpentier, that's a good way to look at it. You're very right. Thanks!


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## Dan in Aus (Feb 10, 2008)

I hate it when stores rip you off it makes me so mad  I am glad that you got what you wanted  and sorted it out. But i still hate how some stores have the nerve to rip you off it sucks. 

I find that really sad that they thought a rainbow shark was actually a shark use some initiative how many people keep sharks as pets.


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