# Pressurized CO2 connection issue



## amitabh (Dec 16, 2005)

Hi,

I am planning to buy a CO2 system for my 55g planted tank soon. What's causing a bit of headache, is how to connect the reactor (planning to get the Aqua Medic 1000 or the Dupla S - both external). 

I have a Rena XP2 canister filter, with 16/22mm tubing on both intake and output. Both of the abovementioned reactors use 12/16mm tubing. 

So... would it be ok to buy a 16/22 to 12/16 hose reducer and connect the reactor to the canister output? I am somewhat worried that this might severely reduce the efficiency of the filter. I have read that the demand for efficient filtration is higher in a planted tank.

The alternative is to buy a separate canister filter / circulation pump to run the reactor. In that case, any suggestions on the minimum flow (gph) to run the reactor. E.g. the Eheim Classic 2213 which comes with 12/16 mm tubing on both input/outpute. The efficiency is 440L/h = 116 gph. 

Appreciate any comments, as I am planning to buy all the CO2 equipment from an online store, hence a bit of pre-planning is neccessary!

btw great forum!


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## johnnotis (Nov 17, 2005)

If you've got any sort of 'handy' skills whatsoever, I recommend just building your own 'Rex Reactor'. Here's the main thread, but if you search for rex reactor on the forum, you'll get more than a few hits.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=22296

You can make the inlet and outlet whatever size you want, and it's a wide open design that won't slow down your filter.

Even if you don't consider yourself mechanically talented, this is a great project to start with!


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## tazcrash69 (Sep 27, 2005)

If you get a reducer for the small diameter hose you will be killing your flow rate. 
I have to agree about building a reactor. And don't worry if it doesn't look great. It'll be in the stand or behind the tank, and cost much less than either of the ones you mentioned. 

There's also tons of help here if you need it.


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## amitabh (Dec 16, 2005)

So not a good idea with hose reduction then...

I guess I could go the DIY way... the other option of course is to buy another canister filter like the E2213 - the added filtration would not hurt...


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

You can just as easily run the reactor using a pump rather than a cannister filter. I do this on my 40g tank where I use a Supreme Mag5 pump to power my reactor while my Fluval 304 cannister filter drives my UV sterilizer.

The Mag5 is actually overkill as I originally used a Mag3 for about 18 months with great success. I only swapped it for the Mag5 because I though the Mag3 was losing power and the Mag5 was on sale. Turns out that the Mag3's outlet pipe got clogged with snail shells, but I didn't discover this until after I had already plumbed in the Mag5.


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## amitabh (Dec 16, 2005)

Actually, that did cross my mind. I was considering getting a simple circulation pump - anyone got any experience with how much pump output is needed to run the AM 1000 reactor?

bharada, 

snails huh? I got a snail invasion in my tank at the moment. Seems their favourite place to hang out is the Hagen ladder, sadly


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

The snails got in when I was using a coarse sponge as a prefilter for the intake strainer mainly to provent baby shrimp from being sucked through the pump. When I found that the foam allowed newborn shrimp to pass through I replaced it with a finer celled foam. But by then it was too late and the baby snails already in the pump continued to grow until they clogged the outlet pipe.  

You should read what the recommended flow rate for the Aquamedic reactor is. A lot of use DIY reactors that are quite a bit longer than the Aquamedic, thus can use pumps with higher flow rates. I'd guess you'd be fine with anything in the 1300 lph range. You can always add a valve to the pump's output side to reduce flow if you find the reactor spitting out too many bubbles.


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## amitabh (Dec 16, 2005)

Just found the AM1000 instructions as a pdf file on their website - min 1.000 l/hr , 250 gph it seems to be. 

Seems it would be more advantageous to add another canister filter - i.e. more filtration and not just more circulation, right? I read somewhere else that yet another possibility is to run a circulation pump in-line with the canister filter to get enough power for the other in-line equipment. 

bharada, that's a beautiful ciclid in your avatar! Which type is it?


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

That's an Apistogramma cacatuoides. Sadly, he died not long after I took that photo of him, cause unknown.


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## amitabh (Dec 16, 2005)

Hey, I was just looking for a few of those in the lfs two days ago. Turns out they only had one male, and apparently it's better to get one male and several femals, as the males are polygamic. Strange, the fish world is


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

I still have two females, but haven't gotten around to finding another male.


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## Lorenceo (Jan 29, 2004)

The Dupla S reactor uses 9/12mm pipes.
I would know, I own one.

I run it on an eheim 2224 with some reducers, from 12/16mm to 9/12mm.
When the water leaves the reactor, the pipe size goes back to 12/16mm.

It doesn't affect the filter performance, So I think you would be fine going from 16/22mm to 12/16mm.


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## amitabh (Dec 16, 2005)

Lorenceo, 

Obviously I've been misinformed about Dupla S. I stand corrected 

Anyway, still I am bit lost as to how to solve this issue, as other ppl have commented in other threads that XP2 could be bit too weak for a 55g - with inline reactor + hose reducers as well it might not provide adequate filtration for my heavily planted tank.

Any more opinions on this? Cause buying another pump or canister filter just for the reactor seems like bit of overkill - especially seeing how much money goes into the CO2 equipment overall.

Guess I could connect the reactor to my XP2 and see how this affects filtration THEN get another pump/filter if neccessary. Sorry guys, I am completely fresh on the whole CO2 injection issue so everything seems bit confusing at the moment  

I think I will wait to hear more opinions before I take the big leap and do the investment. As for DIY reactor - not sure if I am that much interested in that route after struggling even with basic DIY CO2 injection due to leaks, yeast getting sucked into the tank etc 

AM1000 or Dupla S? Any preferences, anyone? 

Cheers,

amitabh


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

The XP-2 will provide plenty of filtration. But it might not provide enough circulation.


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## amitabh (Dec 16, 2005)

Rex Grigg said:


> The XP-2 will provide plenty of filtration. But it might not provide enough circulation.


OK, got it. So that leaves me with two options: 

a) get a booster pump inline with the XP2 e.g. like this: --XP2--CO2 reactor--booster pump--

pros: less equipment inside the tank, less head for this "circuit" (from what I understand by reading other threads)
cons: some claim this could damage the XP2  
other: capacity of booster pump should be as close to that of the XP2 as possible

b) separate circuit with CO2 reactor, run by circulation pump

pros: getting pump with same hose size as reactor negates the need for hose reducers
cons: more stuff inside the tank i.e. intake and spraybar
other: according to AM1000 user manual - the reactor needs to be driven by min. 1000 l/hr pump

I guess this boils down to personal preference after balancing the pros/cons of both options. Intuitively it seems safer and perhaps also easier to go for option b)...

Thanks everyone for your inputs!


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## eds (Feb 12, 2003)

I just have to interject the voice of reason:
namely, the _only_ logical choice for you is to purchase an xp3 to run your *rex*(TM) reactor.
Then, when you realize you have essentially established a whirlpool in your 55, go out and get a 90!
Really - it's so simple. I can't believe no one suggested it before!

If you are going to deny the inescapable logic of this approach, then I offer: 
c) run the CO2 exchanger off of your xp2, and obtain increased circulation with a separate powerhead.


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

You really can't run a booster pump inline with a canister filter.


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## amitabh (Dec 16, 2005)

eds said:


> I just have to interject the voice of reason:
> namely, the _only_ logical choice for you is to purchase an xp3 to run your *rex*(TM) reactor.
> Then, when you realize you have essentially established a whirlpool in your 55, go out and get a 90!
> Really - it's so simple. I can't believe no one suggested it before!
> ...


eds,

fairly absolute statements yoy've got there! Seems like a fairly costly approcah - to purchase xp3, throw out the xp2 that came with the tank then buy a new tank!!! do i sense a great deal of irony/sarcasm here, or is this your honest opinion?

btw whats wrong with using AM1000 or dupla S apart from the added cost involved? if u argue to buy a new filter, then a new tank, why be skimpy on the reactor?!

Lots of conflicting advice om this matter, as quite a few ppl on this forum seems to argue for using not just one, but also two booster pumps inline with a canister filter. 

What about my option b) is there any reason why that wouldnt work? Seems to me this could be the most straightforward choice.

Any of you booster pump enthusiasts there willing to throw in a few opinions?


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## eds (Feb 12, 2003)

I was pretty much joking.
What I was suggesting was that you add an xp3 to your xp2.
Then, when you realize you now have too much circulation, use that as an excuse to buy a bigger tank! 

I know nothing about booster pumps. *Rex* seems to believe they do not work well with canister filters. Since I am not interested in them, I have not paid attention to any threads there may have been about them.

Nor do I know anything about commercial CO2 reactors.

My realistic recommendation was what I thought was cheapest and easiest for you, and what I would do if I were in your situation. You can easily build a DIY reactor a la Rex out of $15US worth of pvc parts. Run that off your xp2. You will still have sufficient filtration, tho your circulation will decrease. If you want to increase your circulation, that can be done easily and cheaply with a $20US powerhead.

Just my $.02US.


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## amitabh (Dec 16, 2005)

eds,

Cool, no worries. Appreciate the advice

amitabh


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## amitabh (Dec 16, 2005)

eds said:


> I just have to interject the voice of reason:
> namely, the _only_ logical choice for you is to purchase an xp3 to run your *rex*(TM) reactor.
> Then, when you realize you have essentially established a whirlpool in your 55, go out and get a 90!
> Really - it's so simple. I can't believe no one suggested it before!
> ...


OK, so now the "voice of reason" is starting to dawn on me...

After spending too much time researching for a pressurized CO2 setup, comparing hose diameters and pump outputs, it seems the best idea would be to get an external circulation pump to run the AM1000. I am just not brave enough to run a booster pump inline with my xp2 nor can I get myself to buy another canister filter with a capacity of >250 gph. 

As the reactor should have a minimum of 250 gph, and I have chosen to get an Eheim 1250 for this i.e. 365 gph - this would indeed, in addition to my 277 gph XP2 create quite a whirlpool in my 58g tank... :wink: I just hope it wont be a complete overkill ie to much watermovt for the tank inhabitants. 

Good thing with the E1250 is that it is compatible with the 12/16mm hose size of the AM1000, negating the need for hose reducers. The xp2 would have just caused too much headache I think with it's odd 5/8" (=15.88mm id) connectors.

Anway, that concludes my quest for the ultimate CO2 system. Sure, I could have just run the end of the CO2 hose into the intake of my filter... Sure I could just build my own reactor... but after reading about and drooling for the AM1000 for months now I am ready to make the big plunge whilst simultaneously emptying my wallet. 

Thanks everyone for your advice this is truly a great forum! I might just share my experiences with the new setup with you all - should have everything in a couple of weeks. 

Cheers,

amitabh


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## amitabh (Dec 16, 2005)

*Update: purchase of pressurized CO2 system*

So,

I finally ordered a complete system for *automated* CO2 injection consisting of: 

Aqua Medic CO2 set basic without gas bottle but incl.:
--regulator with needle valve
--CO2 tubing
--bubble counter with non-return valve
--internal CO2 reactor (reactor 500)

2kg CO2 gas bottle (any larger would not fit in my cupboard below the tank)
AM 1000 reactor (yes reactor incl. in basic set but I wanted an external reactor + price same for set with reactor as adding individual components without reactor)

AM solenoid valve
IKS aquastar alpha pH controller :tongue: 

Eheim 1250 centrifugal pump
Eheim installation set 1 & 2 (suction and spray bars)
accessories: tubing and hose clamps

And yesterday everything arrived :biggrin: Just spent a few hours doing the plumbing work and created a test circuit in the bathroom using a 60L plastic storage container filled with aquarium water. So far a few water leaks so will have to adjust as neccesary and put on the hose clamps before introducing everything to my tank (dont want any water leaks on my new apartment floor :eek5: )

I am so far very happy with the E1250 - it is very silent - almost no sound at all which is quite astonishing with its 1200 lph (317 gph) capacity. No hassle just connect and run although it should be mentioned it's not self-priming. It features some neat screws for securing hoses but so far using 12/16mm on pressure side and 16/22 on suction side I cannot successfully fit the screws over the hose so need to go for hose clamps  

Reactor took some time to fill up but after that it's been running quite nicely. OK granted it's a bit pricey for "a hollow plastic tube" as some people comment but it does have some advantages let alone avoiding the hassle and time spent on DIY trial and error. For instance, I like the fact that it is completely sealed but it is still possible to unscrew both top and bottom for cleaning. Also, it comes with a very sturdy holder that can easily be fixed onto the side of the tank or mounted on the wall or similar. The CO2 input tube can be screwed onto the connector on the unit to avoid leaks. It also includes a false gas outlet although there has been no need to use this so far as the reactor eventually filled up completely with H2O. 

Overall the Aqua Medic gear seems very appealing and thoroughly made although a bit on the expensive side - guess "you get what you pay for" applies here  Also every piece of equipment comes with very detailed and easy to understand instructions, including diagrams for complete automatic CO2 setup.

Today I will calibrate the pH controller and test it on the circuit. Using tank water in the plastic box with KH of 6-7. So far CO2 is running on about 15 bpm, I might have to adjust that later. Btw the needle valve on the AM regulator is quite easy to use for fine-tuning the bubble output even on very low rates  

If everything runs well with test circuit I will transfer it to my tank tonight already although chance is I might keep the circuit in my bathroom for another 24 hours to observe the effiency of the automatic CO2 delievery. I have around 40 fish happily swimming around in my 55g with no problems so far and intend to keep things that way :wink: 

Planning on running CO2 24/7 initially after reading endless debates on this issue. But for me it makes a lot of sense shutting the solenoid off at night as I would like to conserve as much CO2 as possible given the relatively small size of the bottle - 2kg. I guess real issue here is whether CO2 injection would reduce automatically at night even with the system on as plants dont consume any CO2 ie pH controller would not open the solenoid valve as much as during the day hence less CO2 "wasted".

Tank pH has been stable at 7.2 even since before DIY CO2 in fact ever since initial tank setup. KH has however gone down from 12 but I did filter over peat/Efitorf for 2-3 weeks. My idea now is to go for a target value of 6.9 - that should give me 22.6 ppm CO2 with a KH of 6 *great CO2 calculator*. My DIY has given me around 20 ppm so far so I guess this is a good place to start.

The other issue is whether to run an air pump or not... so far I've been running an air pump with diffuser stone 24/7, although now I am somewhat worried that this might "drive out" some of the CO2. So I guess initially I might disconnect the pump altoghether and observe the fish. Plants should provide more than enough O2 during the day - I've got a bit of a jungle at the moment... I will probably put the pump on a night timer if I observe any early AM distress in the fish.

OK thats all for now folks! Congrats to anyone who managed to get to the end of this lengthy post :thumbsup: - I am at work at the moment, 11 hours shift with not much happening - anyway hope someone found this useful!


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## Lorenceo (Jan 29, 2004)

When you get home, Take some pics
Sounds like a cool setup.
Good luck.


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## amitabh (Dec 16, 2005)

You've got it,

Pictures coming up SOON. 

Maybe not today as I will be tired after my 11 hr long shift but certainly I will post some photos of my new setup when I get a chance.


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## amitabh (Dec 16, 2005)

*Update*

It's been a busy week!

So far Ive got the system up and running but unfortunately I cannot calibrate the IKS pH sensor  

It fails to recognize the pH 4 buffer solution. It could be a problem with either the sensor or the solution. Hopefully it wont be the sensor as it's expensive, but warantee should cover it anyway. I bought it new.

So I've been injecting CO2 manually for 2-3 days now. Getting levels around 20-24 ppm, KH 6 pH around 7.0.

I have been experimenting with fine tuning the needle valve, counting the bubbles then waiting for few hours then measure pH with test kit.

Started with AM recommendation of 15 bpm. This gave CO2 around 10 ppm. Been boosting bpm up to current one which is 138. This sounds like quite a lot, but gives "only" about 24 ppm CO2. So far pH has not gone below 7. 

I am using the solenoid for night time shutdown, synced with the lights.

So far fish seem to be ok with no sign of distress.

As for the pictures, I might still post a few, although they wont illustrate too much as all the gear is currently squeezed into the cupboard below the fishtank.


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## amitabh (Dec 16, 2005)

Actually I cannot upload pics until I upgrade my membership...


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## amitabh (Dec 16, 2005)

*Pictures!*



Lorenceo said:


> When you get home, Take some pics
> Sounds like a cool setup.
> Good luck.


OK so I finally upgraded my membership so here's the photos that I promised!

Here's how the whole setup fits snugly into the cupboard of my aquarium stand - actually this is the reason I could only fit a 4.4 lbs bottle: 









And this is how it is all connected together - as you can see I am not using my XP2 but rather a separate Eheim 1250 circulation pump - hence I have 2 separate water circuits for my tank: 









Schematic illustration of complete CO2 setup from AM1000 user manual:









IKS alpha pH controller:









And finally the end result of optimum photosynthesis :biggrin:


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## Lorenceo (Jan 29, 2004)

Nice setup :thumbsup: 
How come you are using the metal clamps on the pump? It has seals built into it, thats what those small grey screw bits are for.
You put the pipe on with the screws screwed down clockwise, and then to seal the pump you turn them anti-clockwise so that they seal the pipe to the pump nipple.
Other than that, looks great.


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## amitabh (Dec 16, 2005)

Lorenceo said:


> Nice setup :thumbsup:
> How come you are using the metal clamps on the pump? It has seals built into it, thats what those small grey screw bits are for.
> You put the pipe on with the screws screwed down clockwise, and then to seal the pump you turn them anti-clockwise so that they seal the pipe to the pump nipple.
> Other than that, looks great.


Hi again Lorenceo,

Actually the tubing that I ordered with the rest of the equipment will fit onto the pump inlet/outlet but I cannot possible fit the hose seals onto the hose... 

To be on the safe side I had already ordered hose clamps and figured I just use them. 

Btw there's at least another odd thing with the picture - the reactor... Anyone notice anything *fishy* about the reactor?

amitabh


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## Lorenceo (Jan 29, 2004)

Yeah, the release valve and co2 inlet are the wrong way around on the reactor from what I can see.


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## amitabh (Dec 16, 2005)

Spot on! 

Actually it did take me awhile to figure this one out since this is my 1st reactor. I did notice something was wrong when I opened the bleed valve and only water came out - even there was clearly a large gas bubble stuck at the top of the reactor :tongue: 

In fact the reactor was delievered like this and I have heard other ppl mention same problem.

Other than that the reactor works great and luckily the bleed / gas release valve and CO2 inlet are easily swapped.


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