# A heads up on Eco-Complete Planted substrate



## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

i think it says on the bag somewhere that it will raise the Gh/Kh which also raise PH, i got rid of Eco complete and switched to ADA soil, i was not seeing much benefits from Eco beside raising my gh and kh for long time.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Eco-Complete is inert. Though, the junk (liquid) they add to the bag can cause problems. Folks typically have no issues as long as they do a solid rinse - or even a soak - prior to using it. 

I've used it several times and have never had an issue of hardness alteration.


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## Amandas tank (Oct 2, 2012)

I rinsed and rinsed and rinsed then soaked for 24 hours (got busy doing something else) then rinsed again and again until the water poured off crystal clear. So there wasn't a drop of the liquid left.

It does specify its important to rinse thoroughly if there is fish in the tank but no where on the bag...even the fine print I did not find it to say it would alter things.


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## Curt_914 (Oct 6, 2007)

I have had the same problem with ECO When I bought it 6 years ago. It claims to be inert but it isnt. I have had it alter my chem for about 6-9 months before it evened out and started to drop back down. I havent used any since and probably wont anymore. It isnt a bad substraight but when you try to keep softwater fish it isnt good. Just my 2 cents,

Curt


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

It _is_ inert. That's based on experience from tons of Planted Tankers and from data provided by CaribSea.

It does have a high CEC, though, which means it can absorb things and release them slowly over time. Which seems to be what's happening.


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## Curt_914 (Oct 6, 2007)

somewhatshocked said:


> It _is_ inert. That's based on experience from tons of Planted Tankers and from data provided by CaribSea.
> 
> It does have a high CEC, though, which means it can absorb things and release them slowly over time. Which seems to be what's happening.


Ok then how do you explaine having water that was 6.6 ph out of tap with a GH of 2, and a KH of 4. Going up to a ph of 7.4, Gh of 6 and Kh of 8 in 24 hours with a new bag of ECO rinsed about 2 hours till water was clear then soaked over night, and rinsed again? It happened to me on 2 seperate occasions with 2 seperate tanks, 6 years ago. And didnt even out for 6-9 months before I was able to get the numbers to drop again.

Im not saying this is a bad substraight an mabye I had a bad bag, but 2 times in 2 tanks that were built 6 months appart? 

Just saying,

Curt


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## AquaPipes (Jun 4, 2012)

One the bag of Eco Complete I purchased, there was a note saying it would raise KH for the the first month (or something simliar).


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

EC substrate uses volcanic rock as a base material.
RobertH and several others (including me) have had disagreements on it effecting water parameters and what is it they wet it with??? Claiming that it contains things needed by plants and 'active bacteria' regardless of how long it sits on a shelf is just plain weird (imo) but hey it sells right?

ad gab:
*CaribSea's all-natural formula makes the perfect substrate to not only enhance the look of your aquarium, but to also maintain the health of your live plants and keep them well nourished. Unlike most synthetic aquarium rocks, CaribSea Eco Complete contains a live Heterotrophic Bacteria, which is beneficial for sustaining a healthy aquatic environment as it helps to convert organic waste into a natural plant food. This Eco Complete fish tank rock gravel comes in a range of large and small grain gravel sizes that makes for a porous foundation for plants, which stimulates for healthy root growth and optimal bacterial efficiency. This substrate helps to maintain a healthy aquatic environment as it will not increase pH or water hardness as it is free of any carbonates and nitrates. This beautiful dark substrate creates a stunning contrast, which not only brings out the brilliant colors of your fish and live plants, but also helps to reduce fish stress. Add CaribSea Eco Complete substrate to your aquarium today and watch your plants flourish and your fish thrive. *

Anybody else wanna throw a flag on this?
Experienced here was about a 2dKH rise in readings that lasted about 3 water changes. Not being a man made material I think the mined mineral composition can vary, that, added to whatever else is in the packaging soup it's shipped in. That said,, anything with a high CEC can be charged and if it's used in a water system of less mineral content the mineral salts and carbonate buffers leach until equilibrium is reached. Once the stored charge of mineral ions has been depleted the remaining rock is inert.

not a fan of the bang for the buck


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## Hmoobthor (Aug 15, 2011)

I use this stuff for years now and will tell you that it doesn't even raise kh or gh at all.....I did all the test on it..when i got a GH and KH kit.

The tap coming out of my sink has a GH of 15. and when test in the tank...same thing with a slighly different of +1 .... this changes because the more ferts you add in the tank..the more it changes.. 

Before that I was dosing my tank heavly and the GH was well over 25. I stop dosing and limted it...now at GH 15 from the tap...woot!!


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

It's the junk they add to the bag.

Since the material itself has a high CEC, it absorbs the junk and then allows little bit of it to flow out into the water column.



Curt_914 said:


> Ok then how do you explaine having water that was 6.6 ph out of tap with a GH of 2, and a KH of 4. Going up to a ph of 7.4, Gh of 6 and Kh of 8 in 24 hours with a new bag of ECO rinsed about 2 hours till water was clear then soaked over night, and rinsed again?


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## Amandas tank (Oct 2, 2012)

It is suppose to be inert, therefore expected to be so, but it is obviously not always the case. Seems half of us have had no change using the product while others have had the same experience as I did. 

I just think that it is important for everyone to be aware of the _chance_ that the bags they are getting may very well end up altering the pH,KH/GH. Be it from the liquid or the substrate itself is a mute point IMHO. I rinsed the crap out of this stuff because it said to do so right on the package. I rinsed this more than I have ever rinsed any tank product because it took quite a long time for the water to run clear. Once the water was clear, I still rinsed a few more times just for good measure. So in my case, it was not the liquid junk in the bag that caused the altering of my water, but the substrate itself.

By posting this I am not meaning to bash the product. I would use it again because I really like it. I just feel folks should be aware of the possible effects the product may have in their tanks. That's all. No more, no less.


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## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

this was my experience with Eco complete

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=128069

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=137695


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

Amandas tank said:


> It is suppose to be inert, therefore expected to be so, --- Seems half of us have had no change using the product while others have had the same experience as I did.
> 
> I just think that it is important for everyone to be aware of the *chance *that the bags they are getting may very well end up altering the pH,KH/GH.
> 
> By posting this I am not meaning to bash the product. I would use it again because I really like it. I just feel folks should be aware of the possible effects the product may have in their tanks. That's all. No more, no less.


point of view taken and respected. 

nothing is perfect, never say never, never say always LOL
The heads up is valid and thanks for the effort.
(get a new cat? :smile


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## Amandas tank (Oct 2, 2012)

wkndracer said:


> point of view taken and respected.
> 
> nothing is perfect, never say never, never say always LOL
> The heads up is valid and thanks for the effort.
> (get a new cat? :smile


Your welcome  And thank you for respecting my reason behind the post. 

No new cat. But his first time being pictured  He's about 6 years old now. He's a big ole sweetheart. I call him my "pitbull cat" because he has a massive head and thick muscle! I've never seen a cat with such a big 'ole noggin. He is about 40 lbs too without a drop of fat on his body.


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## Petrus (Aug 15, 2003)

The thing to keep in mind is that eco complete, as well as other clay substrate products, are made from natural raw materials mined from the ground which can certainly experience batch-to-batch variations. While the majority may have quite consistent composition, there will be some batches which may contain impurities like carbonates or other substances. It is just simply too costly to QC the materials on that scale. They may take and analyze once every couple tons, but within that batch may also contain slight variations on a smaller scale as well.


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## Amandas tank (Oct 2, 2012)

Makes perfect sense Petrus.


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

wkndracer said:


> Not being a man made material I think the mined mineral composition can vary, that, added to whatever else is in the packaging soup it's shipped in. That said,, anything with a high CEC can be charged and if it's used in a water system of less mineral content the mineral salts and carbonate buffers leach until equilibrium is reached. Once the stored charge of mineral ions has been depleted the remaining rock is inert.





Amandas tank said:


> Makes perfect sense Petrus.


haha! yes it does.

(now I'm looking for your posts to see what the pic will be next LOL)


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## ZLogic (Aug 7, 2011)

I've been using EC for a few years now and never seen a rise in my parameters. Tap water is a 7.6 and tank water is a 7.2. Could there be any calcium content in your hardscape that the EC absorbed?


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

ZLogic said:


> I've been using EC for a few years now and never seen a rise in my parameters. Tap water is a 7.6 and tank water is a 7.2. Could there be any calcium content in your hardscape that the EC absorbed?



thats what i was going to ask. there are hundreds of other possible causes for the rise. myself personally i have never had a problem. i've had it running in 3 of my tanks (29g,20l, 10g) and never saw any changes.


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## hbosman (Oct 5, 2006)

Im wondering if people with soft tapwater are the only ones noticing a change. If you have hard water, you might not be able to see a difference. If I remember correctly, the scales for ph is logarithmic maybe, for KH as well.


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

LMAO! it's a mined material not manufactured, so to have the mineral composition drift slightly from bag to bag shouldn't be so hard to believe. As I originally posted my experience was only a shift of 2dKH and the effect only lasted through a couple water changes. RO water and substrate only in the tank in question overnight before testing. The only reason the tank was flooded is that the stand is installed on thick carpet. I wanted the crush weight to settle into the padding for the final level adjustment. 
*I know* the KH/pH shift was from the EC and nothing else. 
Not concerned or bothered by it either,,, it was temporary.


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## hbosman (Oct 5, 2006)

When I initially installed Safety Sorb, it did the opposite, lowered KH. Unfortunately, that was temporary as well. I would imagine any clay substrates parameters would eventually equate with the parameters of water being used.


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## Amandas tank (Oct 2, 2012)

Thank you for you suggestions everyone, but I do know it was from the substrate. I have had a tank for 2+ years and my pH has always been lower than neutral. For a bit I concidered raising it and learned of all the possibilities to do so.

For this tank, I decided to keep my pH right where it was at, or allow it to go a bit lower by adding driftwood. 

The only thing that changed once the EC was in the tank was a huge piece of Mopani dw added after the last bag of EC was added. I can tell you this too. I am anal about checking my water parameters and do so daily. There was a noticable pH climb every time I added another bag. I did not do all the bags at once for the sake of avoiding a mini-cycle due to changing of substrates. Lucky that I did it this way so my fish could adjust. Thank goodness there is a 12 lb piece of Mopani in the tank as well as some Manzanita and a few other small peices of Mopani in the tank otherwise my Angelfish would be suffereing due to the EC. 

Since posting this, I have not noticed any drop at all in pH or KH. I have added plants and some inert lake rocks to the tank. Everything is stable, and that is what matters now. Although, I do hope to see a slow drop at least to pH 6.8. I also have Kuhli Loach in the tank which will fair better below neutral. They are fine for now, but it's the _long term_ effects that concern me.

Anyway! Thanks all of you for trying to help figure out this controversal issue. :icon_lol: I appreciate everyones input. 

Amanda


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## ZLogic (Aug 7, 2011)

I wish my tap came out below neutral....


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

This thread reminded me of something that happened believe it or not 2005 with EC. I actually had a bad batch and couldn't figure out my phosphate levels.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=17212

Phosphate levels were in the stratosphere when Calcium Carbonate got into the EC which created all kinds of issues with hardness, etc.


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## Amandas tank (Oct 2, 2012)

hbosman said:


> Im wondering if people with soft tapwater are the only ones noticing a change. If you have hard water, you might not be able to see a difference. If I remember correctly, the scales for ph is logarithmic maybe, for KH as well.


That is an interesting theory...you might be on to something.


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## Amandas tank (Oct 2, 2012)

*Is that a Doberman??? Hee Hee Hee*



wkndracer said:


> haha! yes it does.
> 
> (now I'm looking for your posts to see what the pic will be next LOL)


I can't find my dober albums :icon_eek: Hope I didn't loose them!
Anyway, here is the one pic I could find.









I know it's far off topic...but at least he's the same color as the EC! I will start a new thread just for "dog" fun


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## easttech (Mar 16, 2013)

*High Ph Eco Complete*

Just an update on my eco situation. I bought 20 20lb bags of this for my 300 gallon plan planted tank and it has been hell. My tap comes out at 7.0 and is extremely hard, dKH 6 and GH about 300. After having things up and running for a couple weeks and started cycling my ph went to 8.3 and stayed there. I have done massive water changes over the last 3 weeks and still its at 8.3. I have run multiple tests on water in and outsude the tank, I have removed a large piece of driftwood that was in an African tank for 3 months becuase I thought it my be leeching. Nothing left but the substrate. I am now 6 weeks in and no sign if this letting up. I am now planted with injected co2 (whole other issue with co2 on a large tank) and I bring the ph down to 7.3 during the day and it shoots back up to 8.3 at night. Small amounts of fish I do have dont seem to mind and apparently this is fairly normal in a co2 injected tank.
I do daily 10% water changes and still no sign of this settling down. I will not add more fish, planning on a large Discus group,intil this gets sorted out


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