# One big advantage of low tech over high...



## Savetheplants (May 24, 2016)

Stan510 said:


> If you have a large aquarium and want an Iwagumi or mountain landscape over a 6' long tank for example?..You don't need Co2. You don't need intense lights..In fact with low to average lighting you don't have a algae on rock problem- something hi tech fights with rockwork all the time. If rock is the primary focal point I bet you could get away with just some Java moss or maybe just green gravels here and there.
> I was looking at photos of Iwagumi and wondered why use three $600 lights? lol. For just monte carlo?...green gravel I say!
> Just my thought of the moment.


Average lighting is about my speed. Things seem to go pretty well with that. Thanks for solving the mystery of algae on rocks for us. We've been pondering that one for a long time and here you solve it in just one post. Please keep us apprised of any future thoughts.


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## Plinkploop (Jan 24, 2021)

Savetheplants said:


> Average lighting is about my speed. Things seem to go pretty well with that. Thanks for solving the mystery of algae on rocks for us. We've been pondering that one for a long time and here you solve it in just one post. Please keep us apprised of any future thoughts.


😅 are you okay, @Savetheplants ? You seem testy. I don't mean to over step bounds, just hoping you're okay.


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## ElleDee (May 16, 2020)

I mean, i've seen some very beautiful scapes that don't have plants at all - you can do a lot with wood and rocks! (Though the green gravel would be novel...) At a certain point what you're describing becomes more of a tank with a couple plants and less of a planted tank.


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## sm1ke (Jun 30, 2016)

Stan510 said:


> If you have a large aquarium and want an Iwagumi or mountain landscape over a 6' long tank for example?..You don't need Co2. You don't need intense lights..In fact with low to average lighting you don't have a algae on rock problem- something hi tech fights with rockwork all the time. If rock is the primary focal point I bet you could get away with just some Java moss or maybe just green gravels here and there.
> I was looking at photos of Iwagumi and wondered why use three $600 lights? lol. For just monte carlo?...green gravel I say!
> Just my thought of the moment.


... you realize the forum is called *planted*tank.net, right? Lol 😂😂


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## Stan510 (Feb 15, 2021)

Like Elle says. I think if you have many planted tanks,an Iwagumi might just be justified as different. I just see the scapers pushing that style all the time and it's really kind of an unusual approach to plant growing. When you then put in very few small fish...
Maybe an extravagant use of expensive equipment...but not like reef extravagant where the aquarium is filled with life under those lights.
One commenter on a vid said why even use water and fish? Made me laugh and stuck with me. It's the opposite of Dutch style I guess.


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## Plinkploop (Jan 24, 2021)

Stan510 said:


> Like Elle says. I think if you have many planted tanks,an Iwagumi might just be justified as different. I just see the scapers pushing that style all the time and it's really kind of an unusual approach to plant growing. When you then put in very few small fish...
> Maybe an extravagant use of expensive equipment...but not like reef extravagant where the aquarium is filled with life under those lights.
> One commenter on a vid said why even use water and fish? Made me laugh and stuck with me. It's the opposite of Dutch style I guess.


Lol they're kinda of right. I can appreciate the differences in all different planting styles and I think that has come with time. I, personally, love the overgrown and tangled look for my own tanks but I will never not look at peoples' pics of their tanks, whatever style, and find appreciation for it. I'm weird like that. Just my 2 cents


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## Savetheplants (May 24, 2016)

Plinkploop said:


> 😅 are you okay, @Savetheplants ? You seem testy. I don't mean to over step bounds, just hoping you're okay.


I'm being sincere. I think @Stan510 has a good point and I appreciate his thoughts. He's done a series of these posts and they have been good. Iwagumi is a lot of rock, triangulated as I understand and it's beautiful. But also I might not be okay.


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## Plinkploop (Jan 24, 2021)

Savetheplants said:


> I'm being sincere. I think @Stan510 has a good point and I appreciate his thoughts. He's done a series of these posts and they have been good. Iwagumi is a lot of rock, triangulated as I understand and it's beautiful. But also I might not be okay.


My bad for reading that wrong. My apologies.


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## Savetheplants (May 24, 2016)

Plinkploop said:


> My bad for reading that wrong. My apologies.


No offense taken.


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## gjcarew (Dec 26, 2018)

Stan, it seems like you have a vision and I'm excited to see it. As a matter of fact, I'm downright intrigued. Maybe you can even start a youtube channel, call it something like Green (gravel) Aqua!

Maybe do a Dutch style next, with piles of red and yellow gravel interspersed throughout the green gravel. Possibly some little stripes of red and blue gravel to represent cardinal tetras.


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## ElleDee (May 16, 2020)

I'm ready for some new aquascape styles to emerge. It's not that I'm tired of what we have now, but everyone is aiming for one of a few different archetypes and I like outside the box thinking. Not everything has to be "natural" or the narrow idea of natural that the hobby employs. (Of course real nature doesn't look like anything like an award winning planted tank.)

If I had endless resources, I'd do a blackwater tank with super dark water, spider wood with a sand substrate, some floater with long roots like frogbit to filter the light and green glofish tetra. Natural? No. Eerie and rad? I think it would be! I want a haunted tank!


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## gjcarew (Dec 26, 2018)

ElleDee said:


> I'm ready for some new aquascape styles to emerge. It's not that I'm tired of what we have now, but everyone is aiming for one of a few different archetypes and I like outside the box thinking. Not everything has to be "natural" or the narrow idea of natural that the hobby employs. (Of course real nature doesn't look like anything like an award winning planted tank.)
> 
> If I had endless resources, I'd do a blackwater tank with super dark water, spider wood with a sand substrate, some floater with long roots like frogbit to filter the light and green glofish tetra. Natural? No. Eerie and rad? I think it would be! I want a haunted tank!


DIY Aquapros has stopped posting recently but has done haunted tanks, sand waterfalls, floating rocks, bonsai forests... He was very creative. I also love the style of the Aquarium Design Store, which does not try to fit in to any of the standard archetypes.


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## Stan510 (Feb 15, 2021)

Thanks. I did spot an aquarium on youtube of 120 gallons with lots of plants and green gravel. I almost posted it. My idea would be the green gravel to be used as natural aquariums stark white sands are. As islands of green around the other plants of various colors. A dark green gravel would be restful to the eyes. 
I only have my one tank set up. So youtube would be a very long time for me between updates that showed a difference.
I've been at it over 50 years now and sometimes what I see there is more showmanship than good fish keeping.


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## DallasYoung (Apr 9, 2021)

Lush Monte Carlo looks a millions times nicer than green gravel.


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## Stan510 (Feb 15, 2021)

Real plants always win. But,when the aquarium is mostly rock in a mountain range look,why spend the bucks for all that extra specialized equipment for a groundcover that small? Even then,it must be pulled out and replanted when it begins to "float raft like" eventually. Now for a nano tank it makes sense. But when you watch scapers do that to 75 or larger it is sort of lost on me. Just make it a terrarium. I think they do it knowing they are going for variety and not so much practicality or realistically.
It's just another twist to a scaping style of aquariums that gets way out of proportion attention by video makers is one reason I brought it up.


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## Plinkploop (Jan 24, 2021)

ElleDee said:


> I'm ready for some new aquascape styles to emerge. It's not that I'm tired of what we have now, but everyone is aiming for one of a few different archetypes and I like outside the box thinking. Not everything has to be "natural" or the narrow idea of natural that the hobby employs. (Of course real nature doesn't look like anything like an award winning planted tank.)
> 
> If I had endless resources, I'd do a blackwater tank with super dark water, spider wood with a sand substrate, some floater with long roots like frogbit to filter the light and green glofish tetra. Natural? No. Eerie and rad? I think it would be! I want a haunted tank!


I would love to see your idea!! I've done blackwater similar to what you're talking about but never with an eerie theme in mind, only to replicate habitat.


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## Stan510 (Feb 15, 2021)

Plinkploop said:


> I would love to see your idea!! I've done blackwater similar to what you're talking about but never with an eerie theme in mind, only to replicate habitat.


`Also- with very fine sand that's as soft as silt. I had some of that many decades ago and it was pure white and Corydoras could sink their snouts to eye level and seemed to enjoy that. My father got it from his job and so I don't know what it was..or did he. Just looked nice and it was extra stuff.
I agree,with when is something new to come on next? We can only redo Amano, 1998, so often.But! that kind of Einstein original thinking will stand forever.
Just want something next level.


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## Plinkploop (Jan 24, 2021)

There's inert sand meant for saltwater tanks that I used to get that was like that. I can't remember what it was called, though.


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## Stan510 (Feb 15, 2021)

It was just a bit more substance than D.E...it didn't cloud the water like that filter powder will. Out of water and wet? It was like white mud.


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## Plinkploop (Jan 24, 2021)

The stuff I used reminded me of soft ocean sand and reacted like it. I would love to start a tank with some of the pond and I have access to buy there's way too many leeches and larvae.


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## Stan510 (Feb 15, 2021)

Everybody is searching for the next wave. Amazon HQ with the living wall behind it is sort of different. Like Patrick Le Blancs home. Any of you seen his aquarium that you can walk over? I should post an article about that.


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## Cawafuoshi (May 13, 2021)

A new aqua scaping style, perhaps with silk plants and plastic fish. Imagine, no ferts and no feeding. An imaginary lamp as well as water make it for a super low tech maintenance tank. No algae problem. There, I solved fish and plant keeping for good.


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## Stan510 (Feb 15, 2021)

No,that's the opposite of Elle and me and others point. It's the search for a system even more realistic and natural than what's done now. It would be great to have a system full of rotifers and shrimp and worms..all that then feeds the fish in an attached aquarium. Ideas like that.
Dark green gravel to accentuate the live plants? No different than ADA Colorado sands next to Anubias from Africa. To be picky-lol.


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## Cawafuoshi (May 13, 2021)

I don't mind your idea of colored substrate to accentuate, but not to replace a carpet plant. When I rediscovered fish tanks some months ago, I was in awe when I saw for the first time Iwagumi scapes until I realized the high tech that usually goes into such a tank. Not to mention that I believe most fish might appreciate more plants.


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## Stan510 (Feb 15, 2021)

The use as replacement is for low tech..less lighting and I've read a million times carpet plants not dwarf sag or sword's need Co2 to grow green and compact. The green gravel would be done in grouped islands,borders between plants. If you are doing for an office for example..don't have time for a carpet or hi tech.
Now on hi tech we are on the same field Caw...lots of expensive equipment for low carpet and mostly rock. Its cost ( and lack of plant variety) outdoes the Zen for me personally.


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## Savetheplants (May 24, 2016)

Stan510 said:


> Everybody is searching for the next wave. Amazon HQ with the living wall behind it is sort of different. Like Patrick Le Blancs home. Any of you seen his aquarium that you can walk over? I should post an article about that.


Yes, the Christarium. I want a christarium. I'm tearing out my floor now.


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## Stan510 (Feb 15, 2021)

In fact,light green gravel might look best,even more contrast to the real plants darker colors. Tastefully done in low tech would look nice. What's so natural in look about Dragon Stone? Never seen that by any stream in California.
It's how you present it all. Spongebob's tiki hut is not convincing in any way. So,no to that.


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## Betta Splendid (Apr 4, 2017)

Green gravel can look great. I bought 6 bags of this stuff and used most of them on a previous scape mixed with sand. It looks great mixed with other gravel too. I've seen good looking blue substrate as well.


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## Stan510 (Feb 15, 2021)

Thats it..that pale jade looks great.
It's like when you put artificial grass for pathways because the trees and shrubs make real turf impossible to grow in shade. Like Monte Carlo in lo tech- just wont grow. But,green gravels would work. Just takes one aquascaper to post it on youtube. Mossy green,fern green..I mean it can be used very well.


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## Betta Splendid (Apr 4, 2017)

Yes, it would definitely get the viewer's attention because youtube is saturated with the standard black and natural gravel (in planted tank vids I've seen). Maybe it could make people become more open to non traditional colors.

In your previous post you mentioned the green gravel would be restful to the eyes. In Russian military and civil aviation, the cockpits are painted turquoise (looks more green on most) because it was claimed that the color is more relaxing for the pilots to fly in. The USA also experimented with this.

Also, with today's LED lighting, the door is wide open to creating ambience with RGB settings.

I like your out of the box thinking. Would love to see what you come up with if you decide to try it out


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Stan510 said:


> I was looking at photos of Iwagumi and wondered why use three $600 lights? lol. For just monte carlo?...green gravel I say!
> Just my thought of the moment.


I think there's a BIG difference in having a large live grassy field surrounding rocks in an iwagumi compared to colored gravel. There's not only the aesthetic, but the satisfaction one gets from the accomplishment. Best thing to do is to set one up and see the reaction it gets. Somehow I doubt it will get the same reaction as a carpet of HC, DHG or UG would get. 

Buying expensive lights allows the aquascaper the flexibility to try anything and not be limited by lighting.


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## Stan510 (Feb 15, 2021)

Nothing wrong to it at all. If that's what you like and it's worth it,the cost does not matter. I'm sort of looking at three $600 lights over a minimalist aquarium of rock and tight groundcover with very few small fish. I get the sophistication...but the cost is very high- Co2 also needed and rimless tank,canister filters. 
Gravel in low tech is a version of that. 
Really,Iwagumi is one design that I would never have thought to become so popular in the hobby. It's more like an art exhibit that never changes.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Well it is art to many. Less is more with an Iwagumi. Not everyone can appreciate it. I can also have astro turf as a front lawn, but somehow the real thing is much, much nicer and more rewarding. You seem to be stuck on how much one spends and think you can achieve the SAME thing another way. Well green gravel doesn't come close. Moss also is a poor choice for a carpet since it grows across and very dense and will trap too much debris.


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## Stan510 (Feb 15, 2021)

Well,if I had just one natural aquarium,the cost of Iwagumi would be a factor in my thinking along with the non use of a variety of plants. If I was like many here with several styles set up,I can see wanting one in a compact aquarium.
Since this is low tech topic,I think the green gravel is a smart way to go. The jade gravel posted is natural and easy on the eyes and wouldn't strike me as wrong one bit. Nice contrast to those brown Crypts I see being sold..for one.


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## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

I've looked around, and all of the pictures I see with green gravel looks terrible. It's not even close to a substitution... it looks like garbage.


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## sm1ke (Jun 30, 2016)

It would probably be better to just use mats of plastic grass instead of gravel. 9 or 10 years ago I used to be able to buy 1x1' pieces of those mats for like $2 each. I even went as far as designing and scaping a heavily planted aquarium, but made completely with fake plastic and silk plants and fake grass. I thought it turned out great, but the tank sprung a leak and I had to tear it all down.

I used something like this.


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## Stan510 (Feb 15, 2021)

The problem with artificial is that it accumulates algae and detritus. It also breaks down fast even if made for aquariums..the plastic gets brittle. Plus,if you remove it to store? That just makes it brittle to no end,fast. My days in the 70's and 80's with plastic taught me all that. Silk plants also will fade colors underwater.
I'm sure some photos of green gravels in tanks are terrible looking..those are the fluorescent or mixed with pink and such for childrens aquariums.
What we all do is interpret nature. You know there are experts who reject the Amano type of tank with its strict rules on structure..and they will claim to enjoy the jungle look of nothing is pruned unless it takes up too much space.
So gravels that are naturally shaded greenish are fine with me. Heck,used as borders or like mini golf sand pits even shiny green gravel would look tasteful.


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## sm1ke (Jun 30, 2016)

Stan510 said:


> The problem with artificial is that it accumulates algae and detritus. *It also breaks down fast even if made for aquariums..the plastic gets brittle. Plus,if you remove it to store? That just makes it brittle to no end,fast.* My days in the 70's and 80's with plastic taught me all that. *Silk plants also will fade colors underwater.*


Everything accumulates algae and detritus..

With regard to the bolded above, this is not true at all, at least in my case. The mats held up perfectly fine for at least 5 or 6 years, and probably would have kept going if the tank itself didn't spring a leak. Silk plants didn't fade at all. These products must have come a long way from what you had in the 70s and 80s.


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## Dreya (Nov 18, 2020)

This is the ideal aquarium. You may not like it, but this is what _peak performance_ looks like


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## Dreya (Nov 18, 2020)

I want to exhibit the natural beauty of my cinder block. (stolen from Savetheplants in a strangely similar thread)


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## Stan510 (Feb 15, 2021)

I wouldn't bet on that cinder block to hold in a storm. Too much resistance. They should have broken the flat top from the rest and cemented it to a flat spot- or,wedge it tight between large rocks and cement it in place there.
I know that what's most natural is just taste. Nobody really can use plants and fish native to one stream from the tropics. So,after that you can even get existential that an aquarium is a glass box.
BTW, I saw a truly spooky move called "Vivarium". Made me look at my fish's lives in a different way.


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## Dreya (Nov 18, 2020)

Ok I was just going to make an Imogen Poots joke, but now that 'Ive read the synopsis, I actually want to see it 
Definitely see how you relate that movie to aquariums.


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## Stan510 (Feb 15, 2021)

She's a dead ringer for Scarlett Johansson. Funny that nobody in the comments or various reviews of the movie mention that.
Yeah,its one of those movies you kind of wish you hadn't watched..


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## Nature Freak (Sep 30, 2019)

Late to this, may I ask where you found that green gravel? Looks interesting. Thanks! 

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk


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