# Sunfire's 100 gallon starphire semi cube - Updated 8/16



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

This is my first planted tank and wanted to share with you as this site is a great place to get info and learn about the hobby from other's experience. This is not intended to be so much of a mechanical build journal as it is a planted tank, what I did right, what I do wrong and how I learn, enjoy the experience, and some day the finished project journal. Hopefully you experienced plant gurus can help me get to where I want with this project.

The display was originally designed to be a reef tank, so try and ignore some of the "eccentricities". 
Main tank is 1/2" starphire glass, 34" wide x 30" deep x 24" high.
The entire setup is tall, more than 6ft. I hate bending over to look in.









Don't laugh at all of the giant fittings reduced down to small little vinyl hoses. :eek5: It took me awhile to get used to it, but is very functional and keeps the tank clear of "stuff".









The sump is also custom made, 3/8 glass. I'm running 4 gallons of bio bale for bacteria growth, a small UV in cycles and a small mag return. 400Watt heater in the main section which is where I will be adding a needle wheel Mag3 for Co2 diffusion. The egg crate makes a great place to lay filter bags with any media I might need, but I don't plan on using any. You can also see the autotopoff.com ATO floats here. I am using dual systems for redundancy and flood protection. No reservoir, straight to my RO filter.








The XP3 runs on a closed loop. A 2 gallon square bucket is hard to see, but is on the right and will be used for autodosing. Co2 tank will be on the left, and of course a crappy little shelf for food, etc. You can see the dual ATO solenoids here(top left) and an under cabinet light to make working and cleaning in here easier. 









The stand and hood were made by me with general lumber and cabinet grade ply, pre-made door on the stand, and some oak trim. Epoxy coated on the interior, and stained to match the furniture. I also took the time to wire and install a series of switched outlets, all GFCI protected. Sorry, some of these pictures are bad. My good camera was broken by one of my girls who borrowed it because their camera (being used for these shots) "sucked". 










Inside the hood, 2 VHO 24" 75 Watt 10K, 2 VHO 24" 75 Watt Actinic, 1 250W 6500K metal Halide and 2 lunar LEDs and a pair of cooling fans. 









I used plugs to connect the canopy, so it can be easily removed for cleaning, scaping, etc. They are color coded and I hope I never mess them up when reconnecting. I'm guessing the lunar LEDs won't like being connected to the mh ballasts. 









I would appreciate any comments as I go through this project. I'd rather get feedback first and do it as well as possible initially. Thanks for looking and I will try to get some bettter pics as things progress.

Steve


----------



## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

Great repost with the pics! The plumbing area looks like a mad scientist run a muck :icon_eek: Hard to follow the tie ins it's all so tight in the pictures. It's going to make the tank so clean on the set up keeping everything outside the tank.


----------



## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

It looks interesting! I can't wait to see what it'll look like when its planted


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

Thanks for the comments. I'm still a little concerned about flow as my turnover will be quite low, in the 4-5 times per hour range. I think because the tank is more square than most, it will prevent dead spots in the tank. I'll be able to tell more after I get the bubbles going with the needle wheel. If needed, I will add more pump, but I am trying to keep this all reasonably quiet, but functional. 

I can't wait to see what it looks like planted either.  

Steve


----------



## Martin Schellinck (Jun 17, 2006)

You may want to consider swapping out the acitinics, they're not very useful for plants. Sounds like a lot of light over that size tank.


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

Hi Martin,

I was going to change the actinics, but decided to keep them just for color balance that I like. I will be running no more than 400 watts at one time including the actinics. . The tanks about 105 gallons, and deep for this length tank so do you think it's too much?

Steve


----------



## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

I don't know how true this is, but I heard actinics can cause algae problems. You may want to ask around. I like the tank. It's hard to believe it is not a perfect cube.


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

Sewingalot, What part of West Virginia you from? My father in law lives there (near Snowshoe) and I love it. I'll have to do some searching on the actinic/algae connection. Thanks for the heads up. I did set out to build a perfect 36"cube then realized the depth would be difficult, and I have only 32" doors to move it through. I almost missed that when I first ordered the tank. I'd have been so sad, and may not have even noticed it by now, as it's never been in my house in the 3+ years I've owned it. 

Steve


----------



## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Western area, right across the river from Ohio. Did you see "We are Marshall?" I live there, graduated from that school. I love the state, it is very beautiful. Just a little boring.....

I am looking forward to your journal developing. I am totally subscribing. I still think it looks like a perfect cube, so you did a great job. :thumbsup:


----------



## fastfreddie (Sep 10, 2008)

Impressive! What type of scape are you thinking about?


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

Thanks fastfreddie, I'm really only getting around to thinking about the scape plans. I have some driftwood pieces from a Cichlid tank that are fake that I might use. They are big enough and full of holes so I believe I can get by using them by planting in the holes for mid and background height. I might put them left of center and basically cover them with plants, using some tall crypts in the very back. I want a rock pile to the right corner also fairly heavily planted. I might do kind of a concave semi circle between the two sides, with overall substrate climbing as it goes to the back. 

Here's a pitiful paint drawing I just did. This would be looking from the top. The orangish gobs on the left would be the fake driftwood, which would be mostly used to stack plants for height and covered by moss via a tied or glued on mesh, along with some well placed rocks for plant anchors if needed. My thinking is to have that left area as full and lush as possible leading from very short foreground plants, to very tall crypts in the back. The rock piles on the right (the greenish shapes) I want to be pretty deep, and also planted full but not as tall as the left side and then with some bushy plants transitioning the center along the back 1/3 of the tank. The brown line at the bottom of this totally crappy diagram would be a noticeable drop in substrate elevation maybe held in place with some rocks under the substrate, or more likely just as good as I can get it and then let it settle.








I'm still in negotiations with the Mrs. about how heavily to plant it. She wants mostly a fish tank and wants them to have plenty of room to swim but definitely the left and right sides will be heavy, it's a matter of how far forward we will come. How would a single centerpiece plant look in the middle of the open center amphitheatre area? 

Plants I like are Crypt Wendtii, several Anubias, dwarf hairgrass, and I like a Java Fern, the Phillipine type, some of the Cabomba, Blyxe, and later on a few of the harder plants, after I figure out how to not kill the first plants.

For fish, we're fairly settled on 2 schools of Tetras, Rummynose and ??, maybe 15 of each, and a school of Cory's, and some Oto's. Maybe a few Giant Danios also, and last into the tank will be about 5 juvenile Angels, hoping they won't eat all the Tetras when they grow up. I've done alot of reading and think they will be OK if introduced in the right order.


----------



## fastfreddie (Sep 10, 2008)

Sounds cool! Tell your wife those fish will love a heavily planted tank! I'm sure people will tell you otherwise, but I think angels are ok with tetras. I've had a large angel since 2005 who has lived with lots of tetras and never eaten any. He does mess with a large black skirt a lot, but its mostly a territory/ meal time thing. I just added 15 cardinals and he totally ignores them. It sounds like you formerly kept cichlids so maybe you're ok with fish eating fish. I don't mind it unless it is an expensive fish getting eaten. 

Good luck! Looking forward to your progress!


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

I don't have a real problem with it (fish eating fish) as long as I'm not choosing to be reckless with my choices and they're not expensive :icon_smil. It's less cruel than keeping fish in poor water and dragging out the suffering. As for the fish choices, I'd love to hear suggestions. Rummynose, Corys and Otos are not debatable to me, and the Angels are not debatable to my wife, but I would like to hear suggestions on numbers. We want as large of shoals as possible. My total water volume is something around 150 gallons with the sump. The Giant Danios seem to stay up high in every tank I've seen them in, and they get farily large, but I'm not thrilled by the looks of them. I do like bloodfin, and penguin tetras.


----------



## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

*Angel Fish*

Selection of your angels should start with a quality breeder first and foremost. The strains out there are wide and varied. You can match your tank water parameters (conditions that you plan on maintaining) to that of a breeder via emails. People state and claim that domestic bred fish will tolerate and adapt to a wide range of parameters just fine. I ask why should they? I also dispute it in that some variants on the species DD super veils, platinum’s and blushers just to name three can be hard to establish in your tanks. My problem child for several years has been DD super veils. Still haven’t established a successful breeding pair. TAF II members are nationwide and about as great a bunch of members as those here. Great source for local breeders in your area.
*fastfreddie* posted he’s kept a large angel for years with smaller fish. That’s cool and probably completely factual. No reason for it not to be. Single angels do act differently than a school or group. I keep 1 adult angel for every 10 gallons of tank volume in every one of my tanks. Otto’s and what not go unnoticed but I no longer keep small mid tank open swimming shoals or shrimp. Tetras and fish at least ¾ of an inch in length with some sort of body width (non minnow shape) are safe for the most part. Glass or grass shrimp when added last until found in the open and the angels say yum yum.
Variations in fish structure can go a long way in predicting behavior patterns as adults. All the short finned angels grouped as domestics are faster swimmers and tend to be more aggressive in their nature than the super veiled varieties. SV’s tend to swim more slowly, display and bluff charge more often than actually making contact with each other. The domestics ‘bump’ a lot when pairing or defending territory. Actual fin and scale damage usually occurs. I have 6 domestic short fins from a prior spawn 2 marbles, one dark, 3 striped standards or termed domestics. A single purchased DD short finned as well. All my other angels are SV’s. 17 total at the present time.
Behavioral differences that I’ve described are across the board on these fish regardless of color, sex or the age of the fish. Simply fin length as the common denominator. I’m sure someone will disagree with what I stated here, opinions always vary. Keeping angels as my primary species for over thirty five years with the one exception of a native bio type tank kept for about three years. Goes without saying (but I will) I think angels are awesome fish!

Just a qwinky dink as my wife says. We vacation every July in Wyoming County. And opening week of deer season every year on one of my family members farms.


----------



## fastfreddie (Sep 10, 2008)

wkndracer said:


> Variations in fish structure can go a long way in predicting behavior patterns as adults. All the short finned angels grouped as domestics are faster swimmers and tend to be more aggressive in their nature than the super veiled varieties. SV’s tend to swim more slowly, display and bluff charge more often than actually making contact with each other. The domestics ‘bump’ a lot when pairing or defending territory. Actual fin and scale damage usually occurs. I have 6 domestic short fins from a prior spawn 2 marbles, one dark, 3 striped standards or termed domestics. A single purchased DD short finned as well. All my other angels are SV’s. 17 total at the present time.
> Behavioral differences that I’ve described are across the board on these fish regardless of color, sex or the age of the fish. Simply fin length as the common denominator. I’m sure someone will disagree with what I stated here, opinions always vary. Keeping angels as my primary species for over thirty five years with the one exception of a native bio type tank kept for about three years. Goes without saying (but I will) I think angels are awesome fish!
> 
> Just a qwinky dink as my wife says. We vacation every July in Wyoming County. And opening week of deer season every year on one of my family members farms.


Nice Qwinky dink! I have never looked into the habits of angels whatsoever, so I'm prob not the best to have given advice, but this makes me want to do some research on mine. Very cool info! :thumbsup:


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

wkndracer, I appreciate you sharing your experiences with Angels. The boss (honey) wants sv gold and sv black so I'm guessing that's what I end up with.  I hadn't thought about finding a local breeder, but that's a great idea. I've been concerned about a reliable source for them. My plan for water is to stay fairly soft, and a little low on the ph 6.5-7.0 if I can keep it there but I'm not sweating ph all that much. I'll stay as soft as I can but want to maintain a decent KH. My Angel stocking plan was to start out with 5 or 6 and see how they do, wait to see if a mated pair develops and go from there. I read that they can be fairly brutal to tank mates once paired so I may remove the pair, or remove the rest depending on circumstances. With ~100 gallons I hope that a pair and 3 or 4 others will be alright, but I guess I'll know when I know. I knew the shrimp would be a problem, which I hate because I do like them, but my favorite fish are the cory cats and hope to keep a fair school of them along with the Tetras, and I know there's a risk even with them, but I'm sticking with varieties that get to 2". Is there a website for TAF II?

Not much progress to report on the tank, still waiting on parts (plumbing). I did receive my CO2 regulator and cylinder, but still need the post body kit. I also got a Mag3 nw pump which will become a second return/CO2 diffuser from the sump into the upper middle bulkhead in back. Ordered a Mag 7 for return from the ATO section in the sump. I had an older Mag2 but it just won't push enough water at that head so it will now be used to pull water out of the sump for WC's, then push it back in from a reservoir I keep in my garage for WC's. With that return pump change, tank turnover is now about 8x per hour and I feel like that will be enough flow to keep down dead spots. There are 3 inputs to the tank and only about 12-15" between each one.

I actually vacation the first week of deer season at a family farm also in West Virginia.


----------



## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Awesome tank! I thought that I was looking at nanoreef with all of that awesome plumbing/ the mh light


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

clwatkins10 said:


> Awesome tank! I thought that I was looking at nanoreef with all of that awesome plumbing/ the mh light


 
Thanks for the comments. The plumbing and wiring really is kind of a mess but I need to be able to connect/disconnect all the equipment from the front. I won't have access to the back of the tank unless an emergency arises, in which case I can pull the sump out through the front and get to the back of it through the stand, and it's really getting crowded in there.


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

*Leak Testing was a success- I found one!!*

I guess this is why I leak tested in a location more suited to a problem than my living room. These photos are a couple hours after I spread out the water, toweled some of the mess up and drying had begun.



















I was satisifed with the flow, no leaks, etc so decided I better simulate a power outage and shut everything down. No issues were noticed and left it overnight. Above is what I found when I checked it this morning. The sump caught most of it, but several gallons made it into the stand and onto the floor. The problem was traced to a leaky check valve, and I got what I deserved for buying cheap ones. Needless to say, better valves have been ordered and will be changed out. The only other change i am making to plumbing is changing out the overflow drain tube to the sump with a 1.5" piece of clear vinyl. The corrugated piece was loud because of all the bumps in it. I already had it and figured it was worth a shot. Hopefully the new check valves won't leak because I'm getting impatient and plan to replace them and go ahead and move everything to the house with no more leak tests. I was mostly making sure the tanks themselves, including the bulkheads didn't leak. I use silicone on all my connections, and expect no more issues. Notice there is a ball valve on each of the open loop pumps in case of a check valve failure that I am aware of. I don't have many long power outages here, but had this problem occurred while I was away, and power was out there would have been many more gallons added to the the floor, not to mention the pumps would then have run dry when power returned, stopped tank circulation, burned themselves up, and then started losing plants and fish. REDUNDANCY!! Got to remember that with these systems.......reminder to self.


----------



## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

*Closer by the day*

Not long now and that tank will be fishy . Is leak down as much of a concern on a tank with weirs installed? Once the return pump shuts off with a power failure your relying on check valves on both intake and return the way the tank is drilled correct?

This weekend you think for the install?


----------



## Trallen44 (Dec 10, 2008)

This looks great so far, and I will be keeping up with it to see how it all comes together. Wkndracer has some great looking angels. If I change my tanks up more later on, I would be seeing if he has any for sale.


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

Yes, I am relying on check valves for both returns from the sump. The main return and then the Co2 diffuser pump. The canister sits in a true closed loop so no issues with that at power failure. I have a busy weekend, with one girl turning 16, so the whole give her a car thing, and then 2 parties, and Prom is this weekend for 2 of my girls, but yes, I am hoping to get in place on Sunday and start the slow process of filling with RO water. My RO membrane is a little tired, not to the point of excess TDS (around 4ppm) but output is down to about 40 gpd. It is a 75 gpd unit, but I have low water pressure, and cold well water which slows them down even more. I will have about 40 gallons in a reservoir filled so still about 48 hours to get it full. Plan to make a trip to Rainforest Farms then next week to pick up some plants and maybe a few Tetras. 

Leakdown is no issue if you use return and drain through an in tank overflow box, just make sure you leave enough excess empty space in the sump to allow for the water that stays above the overflow. The amount depends obviously, a lot on how much water you move through the tank, the footprint of the tank and how big the overflow is. This tank was designed with a small overflow, and with ~600 gallons moving through it I was getting about 1/4" spill into the overflow box. I always allow enough excess sump space to leave room for the display tank being totally full, down to the overflow lowest edge. Pretty easy to calculate the volume then, using display tank footprint times the height above the overflow's lower edge, then make sure you leave that much volume in the sump empty. No need to worry about the reverse though unless you use an overflow box that can lose siphon. Then you have to have a small enough return compartment to not overflow the main tank should you lose the overflow siphon for any reason. 

The UPS man needs to bring me some new valves this week, and I can finally move to setting up. 

I'm working on a water change setup that will allow me to do water changes without getting out a hose, or getting a hand wet also. It just uses a pump in the sump to empty it through my RO supply line into a drain, and then another pump in a reservoir to refill quickly with buffered water. Change a few ball valves, and it will take about an hour to do a 20% change but I can do it as often as I need to and be doing other things while it's going on. Of course in an emergency there's always buckets for faster or larger changes.


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

Trallen44 said:


> This looks great so far, and I will be keeping up with it to see how it all comes together. Wkndracer has some great looking angels. If I change my tanks up more later on, I would be seeing if he has any for sale.


I'm waiting til I get ready for Angels, and he and I are gonna have a talk. I'd love to have some babies form those Gold SV of his :icon_wink


----------



## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

Thanx once again for the info and just WOW! Three teenage daughters! My one scared me to death :icon_eek: but we've both made it so far LOL. She's 23 now and graduates this year with her Bachelors Degree in Chemical Engineering. That won't be the end of it though, she has applied already to the University of Miami MBA program. (Think she's a professional student at the moment LOL)


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

wkndracer said:


> Thanx once again for the info and just WOW! Three teenage daughters! My one scared me to death :icon_eek: but we've both made it so far LOL. She's 23 now and graduates this year with her Bachelors Degree in Chemical Engineering. That won't be the end of it though, she has applied already to the University of Miami MBA program. (Think she's a professional student at the moment LOL)


The girls keep us pretty busy. As expensive as it is for them to drive, I'll be happy to NOT have to run them around. One more turns 16 in November. They are a mix of mine and my wife's which explains the 7 month age difference. We didn't do anything weird to get it that way.:icon_redf 

Now about those Angelfish......


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

Thought I would update. I'm in process of moving the tank stand, etc. I need my help to show up and move the tank, but the stand and sump are in the house for the first time ever. :icon_cool I'll be reassembling "stuff" in the sump tonight. I also need UPS to show up with my new check valves. Tracking indicates it will arrive today, but sometimes the little brown truck comes pretty late to my house. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I'll post update pics this weekend.

Edit: I guess the UPS man couldn't find my house today. I thought by now that truck just drove here automatically. My tracking info has changed to Monday now also. I plan to go ahead and get the sump all arranged and filled with water to speed the fill process once the new check valves arrive. Then sit and wait for the RO/DI to fill the main tank. That sucks but still should be running and adding plants by midweek. Finally!!


----------



## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

That sucks about the UPS!  I am glad you are getting ready for the move into the house. I am so happy to see this tank start to take shape. It is really beautiful without fish and plants. I can't imagine how nice it will be!


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

Thanks sewingalot!! 

I did manage to get the tank in place yesterday and can spin it on the stand to complete the plumbing once the UPS man shows today. I did have a problem though. This tank's back side is built with a piece of 1/2" glass, covered by a piece of heavily tinted black glass, followed by a mirror. This laminated glass structure makes a deep but subtle reflective backdrop that adds to the visual depth of the tank. During the move, the mirror cracked, and the crack shows up inside fairly noticably. I used a flashlight to see if light in the tank dampened the visual and thankfully it does. I'm majorly bummed, but at the same time relieved. When I first noticed the crack I thought it was the main glass. Further inspection from the side shows for sure it is just the 1/8" mirror. I don't believe there are any structural or leak issues, but I'll know for sure in a couple days.


----------



## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

That totally sucks. What are your plans? Is it permanent or replaceable? I am glad to here the tank didn't crack.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

wow, this is hardcore. 

subscribed.


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

sewingalot said:


> That totally sucks. What are your plans? Is it permanent or replaceable? I am glad to here the tank didn't crack.


Hi Sara. I'm sure the mirror is replaceable but it's permanent, for now. I'm now out of patience, and want to get it running. BTW, patience is not listed as one of my virtues. The tank is filling, is well past the beginning of the crack, and the water seems to make it much less noticeable. That fact in conjunction with the lights dampening it's visibility and plants covering it I'm pretty sure it will not be a huge issue. I hope this RO filter can finish filling it today, but it's really tired, and going slow. New membrane has been ordered but not received. I hope to post some pics of the hardscape later today. The water is in an awkward place for pics, and I haven't placed the hood to turn on the lights yet. 

hydrophyte, Thanks, and the fun is about to begin now. I can finally check the SNS and buy plants instead of wishing I was ready. 

For those of you who have used the SwapNShop should I post a WTB thread, or just keep checking the FS threads?


----------



## Trallen44 (Dec 10, 2008)

If it was me, I would do both. I can't wait to see this set up and planted with some angels in it. I am sure you feel the same. I will be checking back to see the picks of the hardscape.


----------



## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Glad to hear it is not very noticeable with water in it. Once it is planted, you probably won't even notice the crack any longer. And thankfully, the water is not coming back out! I would probably do both a WTB and look around. I got some amazing plants through a WTB thread.


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

*Finally!!*

It's finally full and running. I snapped some pics about half an hour after I started the pumps. Pics are with the 10K's only. I played around with the CO2 and I get tiny little bubbles all over the tank, so I'm happy about that. Disclaimer: Would the purists please not bash the FAKE driftwood? It will be mostly covered with plants if it turns out that I can grow plants, and I don't have to worry about tannins,etc. If I hate it I can always yank it and add something real, but for now I kinda like it. The driftwood has several holes that I've actually filled with substrate, and I think it will make a convenient place to layer some midgrounds plants that I like. The substrate is 2 bags of Eco Complete and 2 bags of Fluorite Black capped with mixed fine aquarium gravel and river rocks. 

Hardscape - The rocks are from my pond area, some kind of sandstone that I busted into pieces I liked. The very front area where the bigger stones are more dense will not be planted. 
















Right side close up

















I tried to get a shot of the cracked mirror, but couldn't get it to come out. The water is a bit cloudy from GH Booster which I added shortly before the pics. 

I now have several plants coming from the good members here at TPT. Feel free to make suggestions to the hardscape. Seems a little busy to me, but I'm not sure I will change it until I get some plants going and see how it looks. I was after sort of a rocky river bed look.


----------



## Trallen44 (Dec 10, 2008)

I think it looks great! I have used the fake driftwood before, and it looks good. But since then I have changed over to real driftwood and petrified wood. I like the way it looks better for the 55, but will probably put the fake in my 40. You can attach anubias, java fern, and even moss to it and it will look great. I am sure things will change some as you get your plants in and start planting them. But you have a great start going. Can't wait to see updates as you get the plants in.


----------



## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

CONGRATULATIONS _I know you have to be overjoyed even devoid of life there's success!_


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

Thanks guys. I AM relieved to have it going. Can't wait to get some plants and fish:fish: in it.


----------



## Trallen44 (Dec 10, 2008)

Have you got any plants yet? I figure I might as well spread the trouble around. LOL


----------



## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

We need some weed and fish pics come on now! _I'm doing my part by starting another low tech journal today._


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

I picked up 4 little pitiful Corkscrews Vals at a Petsmart last night. They are lost behind the driftwood, just tall enough to get some light. I should receive some boxes tomorrow though, so I'll have wet arms all afternoon. That 24" height looks nice, but is a pain to work in.


----------



## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

They call us mechanics knuckle draggers at work but you need go go gadget arms! LOL


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

wkndracer said:


> We need some weed and fish pics come on now! _I'm doing my part by starting another low tech journal today._


I'll post pics tomorrow after I have some more planting done. Now I get to start dosing chemicals into the tank.:eek5:


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

wkndracer said:


> They call us mechanics knuckle draggers at work but you need go go gadget arms! LOL


 Some really long tweezers would be nice. Or go go gadget arms....


----------



## Trallen44 (Dec 10, 2008)

After working a 10 hour day, I rush home to see some new pics and nothin! :hihi::hihi: Oh well, I guess maybe after I mow the yard. Hope you are having fun planting!


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

Just for Tim!!
Got 3 boxes of plants today. Edit: I see I managed to get a good pic of the cracked mirror. On the right aobve the bulkhead. Scary looking isn't it?:eek5:








Now in the tank Some Marselia Minuta, misc swords, C Wendtii, Corkscrew Vals, a java Fern, Moss, C Balansae, Limn Sessipholia.....not sure what else right now. been a busy day.








Some shots behind the driftwood - Pics are a little cloudt because of the CO2 bubbles. Also I see they are sideways, but I'm too tired to fix them right now. Sorry








I'll be happier when it all grows up. Can't see a lot of it from the front.









The BAD news:
I added 19 Cardinals on Saturday because the LFS didn't have the Rummynose I wanted to start out with. Well, 1 was dead before I got it out of the bag. It had a large black saddle shape on it's back and I assumed it had been net damaged. No problem, drop it in a baggie, freeze it right? Well, it turns out I am in the midst of trying to control a Columnaris outbreak with ~50% mortality so far. White growths on the tails and dorsal, only 1 at the mouth area. Treated with melafix, because that's all I could get from Walmart at 11PM last night when I realized what was going on with them. Got up this morning, 3 more with white and a couple of fatalities from the already white blotched ones. Today a couple more exhibited, and without fail the fish are swimming near the top at the end of their fight. Every fish that has exhibited the white has passed, as have a couple that didn't. Picked up some Maracyn 2 today, and did 3 15% water changes. Will dose the M2 after lights out. The remaining 8-10 Cardinals that I can see exhibit no symptoms, and actually ate while ago for the first time. I'm not terribly hopeful about the outcome. I had a bout with Columnaris years ago, and lost nearly every fish. One thing I'm not sure about is when it is safe to reintroduce fish once it either has decimated the school, or new fish stop exhibiting. I was planning on 3 weeks or so anyway, but need to use up my fish guarantees within 14 days. If I get a week without additional losses, I may replace the fish for which I can find a body. Right now, I figure I'm a couple bodies short of what I have removed. Hard tot ell how many are in there though The water still is showing 0 Amm, and Nitrites as of early afternoon. Well that's my bummer update.:icon_cry::icon_cry::icon_cry: 

Hopefully some more plants show tomorrow.


----------



## Trallen44 (Dec 10, 2008)

Thanks!! The tank looks great!! It will fill in and grow a lot faster than mine at least. Sorry about the fish. If it was me, I would take the dead ones back and ask for store credit. If they are a good LFS they should understand that you don't want more of the cardinals out of the same batch, and that you need time to make sure it is out of your tank.


----------



## Tex Gal (Mar 28, 2008)

So sorry about your little darlings! At least you didn't have time to get attached to them... A new tank always has it's ups and downs. Looks like your water chemistry is good. Hang in there!


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

Thanks for the comments. I look forward to the plants growing in, and believe the LFS will allow me store credit. I'll buy some more from them later, but what's the point in adding them now? Besides, the fish came in with the problem. My QT is cycling and all fish will be going there first once that cycle is complete. The Cardinals were the first inhabitants and I didn't feel a need since they could be treated there, or have the means to QT. Now I wish I had waited. I want to wait a couple weeks anyway with no additional spread before I replace these guys. The water parameters are good. I'm gonna keep a careful eye on them. I do think I have some bodies unaccounted for, but I don't want to tear everything out looking for them. I'll be diligent with the WC's, add meds, and let this run it's course. Another test of patience.....

Anyone with experience or advice on how long to wait this out after spreading ends would be appreciated. I'll post in the Fish section sometime if not.


----------



## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

Hey Steve lookin' good :thumbsup: More weeds on the way. Chain swords, Java that's been living in high light so its seeding suckers all over the leaves, Bacopa Colorata, and java moss. I'll be locked in at the plant all day so Sherry will post them at lunch. Your far enough away to have a flight in delivery so probably Friday.

























Trallen44 gets a pic too on the other string after all. Posting when I leave here.

P.S. forgot to post it after hearing earlier sorry about the sick fish makes for a hard start.


----------



## Trallen44 (Dec 10, 2008)

Hey Steve, looks like we are both special tonight. I get a cool pic and you get some great weeds. Those will really help your tank fill in quickly. Those are some great lookin weeds you are sending him Mike.


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

Mike, I can't wait for the weeds to show up for the QT tank. I appreciate it, and Tim appreciates the pictures of the wigglers, but then so did I. :icon_lol: 

Update on the Columnaris problem: Lost 2 more last night, bringing total deaths to 13. I did pull out everything and recovered the bodies. After thinking it through, there was no choice. I couldn't risk leaving the bodies and spreading this bacteria any further, or later on if new fish found remnants of a carcass. The remaining 6 are eating, and showing no signs, but like I said, I'm not hopeful, especially with fish as sensitive as Cardinals. Hoping for the best, and looking forward to mail arrival, and more plants. Will post up some pics with new planting later tonight.


----------



## yikesjason (Jul 2, 2008)

I am so sorry about your cardinals. I am grateful that hasn't happened to me yet. I have around 40 cardinals in my 125. On a budget aquarium like mine, an illness like you have going on would be devastating.


----------



## Trallen44 (Dec 10, 2008)

Hey Steve, glad you found all the bodies. If you decide to get some more cardinals from a different source, I highly recomend Invertz Factory. They are a sponser here on the forum and they have great fish. They are local for me, and if they even think there is a problem with a fish they don't sell them. I have got quite a few fish from them. Did you get more plants in the mail today?


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

yikesjason said:


> I am so sorry about your cardinals. I am grateful that hasn't happened to me yet. I have around 40 cardinals in my 125. On a budget aquarium like mine, an illness like you have going on would be devastating.


40 of these guys? I bet that's good looking. Do they come out better in larger numbers? 




> Hey Steve, glad you found all the bodies. If you decide to get some more cardinals from a different source, I highly recomend Invertz Factory. They are a sponser here on the forum and they have great fish. They are local for me, and if they even think there is a problem with a fish they don't sell them. I have got quite a few fish from them. Did you get more plants in the mail today?


I'll keep them in mind, thanks for the referral. I have a hard time spending the shipping money for a few fish. I'd bet Cardinals stress pretty hard shipping too. No plants arrived yesterday so no new pics. Sorry Tim...

No additional fish loss now in almost 24 hours. Maybe they're just tougher than the rest, maybe the med's are kicking in. I've spent over fifty bucks treating $47.31 worth of fish. Of course I'm also treating the entire tank to prevent future outbreaks.


----------



## yikesjason (Jul 2, 2008)

sunfire99 said:


> 40 of these guys? I bet that's good looking. Do they come out better in larger numbers?


They look great in those numbers. It is especially fun now that they know me know when the food is coming. Have you ever seen the video of Amano feeding his Altums. He taps the tank with the fish food can and all of the fish come to him to get feed. That is what they do now. It is fun.

Although, if I were starting over again, I think I would go with rummies instead. I think they school a little better and I think they look a little better too.


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

*More plants arrived*

Couple of updates. Cardinals still the same, with no more losses. :thumbsup: And here are some updated pictures with what arrived today.
Full tank shot:








The right side with some GREAT Blyxa from Daud.








Left side shot. The left side there will be getting some Lud. Repens and Rotala. That and some Ammania sp Bansai will finish off the plant additions, at least for now.









If you see something planted like I had no idea what I am doing, well I really have little idea so I want to correct any errors that will cause issues with plant health, etc. So say something please. Some of these plants I'm not even completely sure what extras were sent me so I took a guess at where to put them. I've been looking at what might need to move, etc, and I'm sure I'll tweak things as the tank grows in. I won't be doing major rescapes though. This tank is so hard to work in. I can't get both hands to the bottom, working from a ladder, and given a " do over" on substrate, it would have all fine material, maybe even with sand added. I have a heck of a time getting some of these plants to stay put in the more course gravel areas. I assume they will eventually take hold??


----------



## Trallen44 (Dec 10, 2008)

Hey Steve, the tank looks awsome! I am not familiar with some of the plants you have, but they will take root given time and not disturbed a lot. I don't see anything that jumps out at me as planted wrong. One of the reasons that I recomended them for fish, is that shipping is reasonable and the have a good guarantee on their fish unlike some that want you to pay for overnight shipping and must respond with DOA within 1 to 2 hours of reciept of fish. I have never had a problem with fish being shipped priority mail if they are packaged right and are healthy to begin with. Keep up the great work on the tank!


----------



## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

Gee Steve,,, Man all that hard work! But I guess I need to be brutally honest if we're going to keep our budding long distance friendship on the right foot,,, Looks like crap! Totally empty! No matter how hard I look (and I cleaned my glasses TWICE) I can't see the first fish in that suppose to be *FISH TANK*.









Plant look nice though :biggrin:

Whats the big green hiding in the back left corner?


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

Trallen44 said:


> One of the reasons that I recomended them for fish, is that shipping is reasonable and the have a good guarantee on their fish unlike some that want you to pay for overnight shipping and must respond with DOA within 1 to 2 hours of reciept of fish. I have never had a problem with fish being shipped priority mail if they are packaged right and are healthy to begin with. Keep up the great work on the tank!


I honestly had no idea that anyone offered reasonable shipping for livestock. I'll definitely be checking them out. Feeling a whole lot better about this outbreak now that further contaminations have stopped. Thanks for the comments and advice about the plants. I definitely will be leaving things alone as much as possible. I'm guessing some of it will need to moved based on how it looks once grown out, but right now I'll be happy to see it growing, and the algae staying away.


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

wkndracer said:


> Gee Steve,,, Man all that hard work! But I guess I need to be brutally honest if we're going to keep our budding long distance friendship on the right foot,,, Looks like crap! Totally empty! No matter how hard I look (and I cleaned my glasses TWICE) I can't see the first fish in that suppose to be *FISH TANK*.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's coldblooded Mike.:icon_eek: You're gonna have to take my word for it when I say there ARE 6 fish in there. They are waaay shy about coming out from behind that stump, and with that Radican Sword back in the corner they are even harder to get eyes on them. Water is a bit cloudy from all the poking of plants into the gravel just to watch them float back out.:hihi: God that was frustrating for awhile. The Blyxa was just the worst about it. Finally found a method that held them in place. 

After further consideration, I decided to not give you and/or Tim the chance to give me hell about no fish so I chased out the last survivors of the great Columnaris plague of '09 to take this crappy photo of them. I've really got to get a new camera.


----------



## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Hummm...............this is the tank?
Well, the wet/dry has some issues if you plan on adding CO2, namely a lot of off gassing.

This is going to cause you grief in terms of algae.
Better sediment and plant density will also help a great deal.

Wet/dry sections need seals to prevent CO2 off gassing in the dry part of the chamber, I tape the lids up good. That and the spill way over flow needs adjusted to say 2" 3" or less drop, that does not seem to be an issue, the dry section below does however.

I'd run the automated water changer daily for awhile.
Keep the light relatively low for now.

Regards, 
Tom barr


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

plantbrain said:


> Hummm...............this is the tank?
> Well, the wet/dry has some issues if you plan on adding CO2, namely a lot of off gassing.
> 
> This is going to cause you grief in terms of algae.
> ...


I've been doing 2 water changes a day while I have this bacteria problem. CO2 offgassing is an issue. I have the drain entering the sump submerged almost to the bottom of the sump, and with a filter sock to prevent as much splashing and bubbling as possible, and have only about 1/2" spill over the return baffle. There's not a good way for me to cover all of it with the limited space I have for everything and still get to it all for maintenance, etc. I don't have a dry chamber in the sump. It's all wet to the top of the baffles, aside from the very narrow return chamber. 
Can you elaborate on keeping lighting relatively low? Edit: Sorry, just found yor post on the other thread. Exactly what I wanted to knwo more about, so THANKS!! Also, I do seem to keep good CO2 levels in the main tank. I am having to run a very high bubble rate to do it, but it's keeping the DC green, even a little yellow. The overflow area of the main tank is completely isolated from the air. I installed this baffle mostly for noise, but then realized it may help with offgassing as well. The baffle forces the water under the baffle before it reaches the overflow, trapping noise and hopefully equalizing CO2 loss as well. Not sure but I can hope can't I?


----------



## Trallen44 (Dec 10, 2008)

Hey Mike, I didn't see any actual fish did you? I think he is just shineing a blue light into the tank and taking a pic. LMAO J/K


----------



## Trallen44 (Dec 10, 2008)

So what all do you have in the QT tank to add to this one? Curious minds want to know. :hihi:


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

this tank is coming along fast. it looks great with the planting. this is gonna be cool.

i second the recommendation for invertzfactory.com. i have had a couple of good experiences ordering from them.


----------



## pinkfloydeffect (May 2, 2009)

This tank itself is liek museum style. Verry Verry pro head to toe!


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

Trallen44 said:


> So what all do you have in the QT tank to add to this one? Curious minds want to know. :hihi:


I have what wkndrcr sent me. Several Java ferns, Bacopa Colorata and a couple bunches of moss. I'll get a picture up later.



> this tank is coming along fast. it looks great with the planting. this is gonna be cool. i second the recommendation for invertzfactory.com. i have had a couple of good experiences ordering from them.


I checked them out and that definitely looks like a good option. My next addition will be a school of 20 Rummynose. Adding large groups of fish at once still goes against what I thought I knew. I am also concerned about adding that large of group to the 20G QT. Not sure it could stand the bio load spike. On the other hand, I've already figured out that it's really expensive to treat a large tank should the new inhabitants come down with something. Suggestions??



> This tank itself is liek museum style. Verry Verry pro head to toe!


Thanks for the comments. I feel totally out of my element starting a planted tank, but doing the best I can.

Another question. I seem to be having a bacterial bloom, or Diatom bloom already. Water just a little cloudy and accumulation of white, stringy stuff on the glass and substrate, especially in the high flow areas. It looks like Rhizoclonium almost, but I thought it didn't like high flow areas, and there is no color so it doesn't look exactly like Diatom either. Is this possible after just a week? Never had a bloom this quickly in any other tank. It's also weird because the "cure" for the bacterial/Diatom blooms is often suggested to be bacteria meds, which I've been using for 5 days now. I am reducing light and began dosing Excel and see what happens. Ammonia took a jump yesterday which I'm guessing is the culprit, despite continuing the 30% per day water changes. Free ammonia is still not measurable, but total ammonia measured at 1.0 mg/L. Hopefully this is just an accelerated stage that most tanks I've had go through, and will go away as quickly as it came. Should I increase CO2 now or give it some time? Should I get some Oto's working? The 6 survivor Cardinals are all still doing well, it's been 4 days. I'm relieved that the spread seems to have stopped.:thumbsup:


----------



## pinkfloydeffect (May 2, 2009)

sunfire99 said:


> I have what wkndrcr sent me. Several Java ferns, Bacopa Colorata and a couple bunches of moss. I'll get a picture up later.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wish I could help. Sorry dude ask Hoppy hes better than Google


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

A quick update. The plants are doing well, as are the 6 Cardinals. I added some Oto's last night, that all got busy munching on the algae, Diatoms, or whatever was growing. It stopped collecting on the glass the same time I stopped using the meds, so I think it might have just been med related. Here's a pic of the QT tank I have in progress as well. It's a 20G with 15watt light, UG filter and small hob. Need to get a background on it, but the plants and fish are doing well.


----------



## Trallen44 (Dec 10, 2008)

The QT tank looks good.  I see you stole my idea of using plastic fish! LOL At least you aren't doing the blue light in the tank again! J/K That is a good picture of the tank.  :thumbsup: Now we just need an updated pic of the main tank. Glad your cards are doing good now.


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

Trallen44 said:


> The QT tank looks good. I see you stole my idea of using plastic fish! LOL At least you aren't doing the blue light in the tank again! J/K That is a good picture of the tank. :thumbsup: Now we just need an updated pic of the main tank. Glad your cards are doing good now.


I dug my old camera out and it seems to work better than the other one. Here are some more shots from today. Plastic fish included
Full tank shot. My Java Fern is turning black. I've read they can do that after a change in light and water conditions, so I'll just see what it does. Most of the plants seem to be doing well. I've had some Crypt leaves melt, but most of the plants are pearling at least some, and I can definitely see growth in most of them now, so I'm pretty happy with everything. Can't wait to get a couple more weeks in and the plants get more settled in. 








Cardinals:








My new Oto's:








Pearling!! lol :thumbsup:


----------



## RamsRme (Mar 20, 2009)

Lookin' good!


----------



## Trallen44 (Dec 10, 2008)

Definetly better pics! :thumbsup: I can actually see fish in there. Maybe Mike can too without cleaning his glasses. LOL When I move java ferns, and the leaves die, I just pull them off if I get a chance. If not they still come back great along with the crypts. I am really wishing this tank was set up in my house! :hihi: Keep up the great work!


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

Thought I'd make a quick update. Fish are all still doing well. Ammonia measuring at 0, started measuring nitrites tonight for the first time at .1. Nitrate at 3, P04 at 1 as a result of tweaking the PPS dosing ratios. Current photoperiod is 8 hours at 150W with a 3 hour noon burst of 400 watts. Some plants are noticably growing while the Java fern continues to turn black. It has grown many small plants at it's tips. I trimmed a few off today and tied them off to some rocks and added them back to the tank. I did try to remove some of the black leaves, but they really don't want to come off, so I've left them for now. Hope the big fern comes back. It looked so nice when I received it. 

Also, have a bit of algae on a couple of plants, but nothing showing up anywhere else. I assume those plants had a bit on them when I received them, but not sure. I don't feel like it's spreading. A few plants defintely had algae on them when I received them. I had dipped them, but hadn't noticed that it helped, and now new growth is emerging algae free so I feel pretty good about the growth. Some of the stems have grown several inches, the Marselia is creeping and sprouting new leaves, as is the Repens which arrived a little worse for wear with many lost leaves. Crypt Wendtii's are doing generally well with a few melted leaves, but with new leaves on the same plants. Got a new double drop checker from GLA today and moved the original China made one to the return section of the sump where it still turned bright green. I've also noticed it takes several hours for the ph to equalize back to full CO2 depletion which makes me feel more positive about how much outgassing is occuring in the sump. I made a slight adjusment to the water level in the sump and now have no spill over the return baffle. I'll post up some new pics when growth warrants.


----------



## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

Can you get a shot of the hardware and sump now that you've tuned it all in?


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

wkndracer said:


> Can you get a shot of the hardware and sump now that you've tuned it all in?


i second that.


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

wkndracer said:


> Can you get a shot of the hardware and sump now that you've tuned it all in?


Here's a shot of the main collection area. These pics are with all pumps running. You can see I have very little surface agitation taking place.








The return side. Still in full motion. It's hard to see, but if you look closely, the water line is now above the return baffle to eliminate any additional outgassing. 








Latest full tank shot. I've decided to pull the blackened Java Fern out, cut back the dead, and move the rhizome to the low light tank to see if it can recover. Notice the growth of the stems in the back. I'll be cutting them down, and trying to get them thicker over the next few weeks. I've got a few more stems coming for the back right corner. 









And here's a shot of my Fabco valve and bubble counter setup. You can also see the double elbow I installed on the drain to feed into the sump bulkhead. The filter sock just wraps around that piece of PVC which can just be pulled out for maintenance. Picture would have probably been better if I had turned off the light there on the left. 









Nitirites climbed a little more yesterday, so I reacted with 2 water changes yesterday, another this morning, and will do one more tonight. Of course that's only a 12-15 gallon change each time. Fish, the Cardinals and Oto's all seem happy.


----------



## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

Thanx for the post! Clear pictures this time, better idea of whats going on.
FYI if interested, salt @ 1 level tsp per 10 gallons and Nitrite is no longer toxic (one time treatment). Mix it in a pitcher so you don't shock the plants pouring it in and at that dosing level it won't damage the plants.

Just did this treatment a few days ago on the soil sub tank after I verified the advice.


----------



## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Tweak CO2 light etc, worry less about nutrients, those are easy.

Java does poorly as does Bolbitus, A reineckii etc with poor CO2, R wallichii as well.

Higher light= more issues for CO2, more algae growth, more nutrient demand(add more at a higher ppm or add more frequently, one of the two).

I think some better gravel would be the best thing, you spent a lot of time on the guts, the engineering etc.........but less on the sediment and design.
That's the focus and I know many of us love a good filter, buy too much light for our own good, but refrain a bit and focus on the sediment, moderate light etc.

This will save you a lot of grief over time.

Good aquatic plant specific Sediments (See Mineralized soil and ADA aqua soil) can act as nutrient back up, or as a primary source, they are easy to deal with, add them and that's it. Makes dosing the water column much eaiser and less critical= better stability over time with nutrients.

Look nice, root plants really well etc.
Then dosing is very very easy.

Then it's a matter of low to moderate light and good CO2.

I'll be taking some pics on my CRS and Brass tetra tank later today, it's a 60 Cube, uses EI dosing, has a wet/dry, Black flourite, 2 species of plants, 3 pieces of Bald Cypress and 1.7 w/gal of light raised 14" above the tank(10 hours).

A low light tank.

Very stable and easy to keep.
I have 9 Zebra L046 plecos in here and have for about 6 months now as they grow up.

Maybe 100 CRS, 70 Brass tetras.

You might have a totally different goal and idea.
But think about and consider what that is that you really want here.
Mull that over and what you want to be able to do to get to that goal/point.

Regards, 
Tom barr


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

That's interesting about the salt. I'm reading about .1-.2 ppm before the last 3 water changes. Planning to do another wc tonight and then another nitrite test to see how it's behaving. If it's still increasing I'll add the salt. I'd hate to kill the last surviving Cardinals with nitrite poisoning after the unreasonable amount of money I spent medicating them already. On a bright note, I finally seem to have gotten the kh to level off at 3 dKH. Ph is reading about 7.4 with no CO2 injection, 6.7 "reading" with CO2. No ammonia. GH of 5. Nitrate now at 2-3 as a result of dosing a little heavier with NO3. PO4 at 1.0 I'm going to try to get a picture up of the algae I have growing on that large Radican Sword to see if anyone can identify it and recommend a treatment. I've tried Excel with no apparent changes. I haven't pulled it out and dipped it, but used a baster to spray it in the tank with 50/50 Excel and water solution.


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

Also I noticed snails for the first time today. I thought I hadn't gotten any on the plants I added because I haven't seen even one until last night when I saw a very tiny one. Today I can see about 15 up to about pea size. Of course they decide to expose themselves now that I bought some in the swap n shop last week, and which will be arriving shortly.


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

plantbrain said:


> Tweak CO2 light etc, worry less about nutrients, those are easy.
> 
> Java does poorly as does Bolbitus, A reineckii etc with poor CO2, R wallichii as well.
> 
> ...


As is often the case, we get into these things without really knowing exactly what we want. I'm gonna stick it out with this substrate for now, but the substrate is the one thing I'd absolutely change about this tank if I could start it over. There is an inch or more of fluorite/eco complete under the gravel, which may not be ideal to the easy dosing regime of mineralized soils, but in all honesty, those soils seemed a bit intimidating for me just starting out with planted tanks. I'd have used pure fluorite black, or even fluorite sand mixed with regular. I know I can change it but I see many beautiful tanks done with less than ideal substrate, so I'll learn with this one, try to enjoy it and do a low maintenance, low light, soil tank next. 

FWIW, my light is all 10-12" from the surface and I really don't feel like I'm overpowering this tank with the light I'm using. I have too much light available, but then it was originally built for a different purpose. That said, I'm keeping a close eye on changes in the tank that may be a result of too much light. If the algae I'm seeing on a couple of plants begins to increase, I'll cut the burst out altogether until I get things in control. 

Does Bald Cypress last well under water. I actually have a small tree in my yard and some full grown at a river nearby which might be a place to look for some dead pieces. Look forward to seeing the pics of it.


----------



## Trallen44 (Dec 10, 2008)

Those are some great under the tank shots!


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

Trallen44 said:


> Those are some great under the tank shots!


Thanks Tim. I'd like to make the tank itself look nicer now. It's growing in some, but I'm really not that patient so it's been interesting. Of course when it's all grown in and needs trimmed regularly, I'll probably whine about it. Found some more stems I will be adding this week. Still looking for some more Rotala Wallichi. It's supposed to be a "hard" plant, but the few stems I got are doing great and growing well. Just not fast enough for my level of patience:icon_roll. Besides the wife really likes it, and I couldn't pass up the chance to get what she wants. lol


----------



## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

You might consider adding more Eco (or another finer grain substrate) on to / into the gravel cap before everything fully grows in. I added Flora Base to the office low tech YEARS after starting it without issues of smothering existing bacteria or any other problems doing it. The finer grain filled in around the larger gravel helping the plants and I didn't do a complete tank tear down to do it. It will self mix over time as well. The MTS will help with that.


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

wkndracer said:


> You might consider adding more Eco (or another finer grain substrate) on to / into the gravel cap before everything fully grows in. I added Flora Base to the office low tech YEARS after starting it without issues of smothering existing bacteria or any other problems doing it. The finer grain filled in around the larger gravel helping the plants and I didn't do a complete tank tear down to do it. It will self mix over time as well. The MTS will help with that.


I'm considering that since you posted and it's probably a good idea.:thumbsup: Maybe some sand, but in all honesty the plants are already rooting pretty deeply towards the Fluorite/Eco mixture. It was just a PITA to get the plants into the overly course substrate cap. The planting in this tank is largely done for now, and I'm thinking maybe I'll get some Fluorite sand to have on hand when the time comes that I decide to do any kind of major rescape. It would be much easier to do if/when that time arrives. Right now, I'm happy to just have them growing. The depth of the tank, coupled with the height to the top of the tank makes it more awkward as well, as in working on a ladder leaning over the tank. I can't find a good way to get both hands to the bottom of the tank to dig a hole, plant something, and then cover it up. Using tweezers to get a rooted plant to stay put in the gravel cap without damaging it is difficult. Since course substrate will migrate to the top, I'm thinking give it a couple months to settle and mix, then skim the top inch or so of course gravel off of it, then add back sand or other substrate.


----------



## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

What ever works for the guy doing it is all that matters in the end. If we (and our tanks) were all the same this forum and the world in general would be a boring place.
If and when I find a balance for these tanks of mine I'll be quite happy to just sit back and look at them with a chilled beverage.


----------



## Trallen44 (Dec 10, 2008)

wkndracer said:


> What ever works for the guy doing it is all that matters in the end. If we (and our tanks) were all the same this forum and the world in general would be a boring place.
> If and when I find a balance for these tanks of mine I'll be quite happy to just sit back and look at them with a chilled beverage.


x2! I will be happy when I can get caught up on everything and then sit and relax and not have to just sit. All in due time though.


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

Guys, you'll have to stop adding new tanks to ever be caught up.:hihi: Although, I spent most of my day rehabbing the old 42 hex that was a salt tank. Not that I'm planning to set it up anytime soon or anything:icon_roll. 

If I weren't afraid of messing with this one too much, I'd change the substrate now, but there's that and I'm too lazy. It will really be a mess to do it and it's all doing so well right now.:thumbsup: I hate to muck it up doing something like that. I'll post some new pics tomorrow.


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

A new full tank shot prior to adding some plants tomorrow. Got some really nice looking stems to help fill in the background. Does it look like the plants are growing?









And not to hijack my own thread, but here's a shot of the hex I've been working on. It is a 42G Oceanic with a custom hood. This used to be a reef tank believe it or not. I had really good luck with this as a reef until I let some Caulerpa get loose in the main tank. I'll be running 2 x 24 watts PC at 6700K. Rena XP3, inline Hydor heater and maybe CO2. I was going to skip it but it might be nice to have to help control algae. If I decide on CO2 I will use a Grigg's style reactor. Still thinking about substrate choices as well.


----------



## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

The tank is looking a lot better :thumbsup:


----------



## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Looking great. You have improved a lot of the scape.


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

Thanks for the nice comments. I'm beginning to get a feel more for what I want it to look like, but mostly I'm just happy the plants are not all dying and the tank is staying algae free.:icon_bigg


----------



## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Algae free? Tell me your secret!


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

sewingalot said:


> Algae free? Tell me your secret!


If I knew, I'd share with you.:icon_lol: Really, just limiting the lighting to within reason, keeping the drop checker green, and I have really good flow. It's also not been setup long, but I expected some kind of algae problem by now.


----------



## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Haha. The three things I keep screwing up! You are doing a great job. If you want a heads up on algae, I'll send you mine for free. :hihi:


----------



## Trallen44 (Dec 10, 2008)

The tank is looking great! Looks like you have plenty of room for extra tanks! The hex hardly takes up any space at all! LMAO


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

nice work! it is looking good with the plants in there. this is going to be one of those big tanks full of plants that will be especially nice when it's wintertime again and everything is gray and dreary outside.


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

Thanks hydrophyte. I set out to have a moderately planted tank, and ended up wanting it full but not a jungle look. 

I knew when I made the comment about algae, I'd regret it. My wife actually noticed it because I don't see small stuff that well. It would appear I have spyrogyra algae growing (I'm about 99% sure). Single long thin very green strings. If I had a better camera I'd post a picture for confirmation. It's not bad yet, and I've read up on it and am following a course of action that worked for Imeridian. Heavy doses of Excel, H202, 5 hours of low lighting, CO2 running normally, no fert dosing and frequent water changes. I can see it in the Blyxa and on the Wallichii, and will continue with this plan of action watching the fish closely for several days to see if I can fight it back. Hopefully as the tank matures it will help also. I had managed to get the BBA off the Radican sword that had appeared only on that one plant. I'm wondering how I managed to miss diatoms, green water, hair algae, etc and got this nasty stuff. Of course I still have plenty of time to get the others.:icon_frow Any advice on ridding the tank of this stuff that I'm not already trying would be welcome. If the "treatment" I'm trying doesn't help, I can pull the affected plants to see if it pops up anywhere else.


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

Trallen44 said:


> The tank is looking great! Looks like you have plenty of room for extra tanks! The hex hardly takes up any space at all! LMAO


I actually do have room for a couple tanks in the garage, which is my office also(cars go in the detached pole barn when needed) so that's not a bad place for me to enjoy them.:thumbsup: I work from home so I'd be close to them and able to enjoy them. The hex is going about 3 feet from my desk.


----------



## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

Don't get bent over a little algae as it will come and go as the tank changes. It's part of it all. ALL= the grand dream of the mini ecosystem. I've got links out the the waazoo regarding snake oil algae cures. (some work, some don't) T. Barr's advice on balance is the most logical. NPK and CO2. Limiting light may be a short term help but a long term cause (I'm watching two of my tanks that slipped) Your tank looks great, enjoy it, PLZ remember its alive and not perfect.


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

I really am enjoying it. This particular algae though reads like an impending disaster. People tearing their tanks down over it, and contrary to most algaes the treatment seems to be no dosing. It seemed to work for those who had tried it so I'll give it a whirl. I'll also try to relax.:icon_smil


----------



## Trallen44 (Dec 10, 2008)

sunfire99 said:


> I really am enjoying it. This particular algae though reads like an impending disaster. People tearing their tanks down over it, and contrary to most algaes the treatment seems to be no dosing. It seemed to work for those who had tried it so I'll give it a whirl. I'll also try to relax.:icon_smil


We thought you had been relaxing! LOL If I had as much room as you do in your office, I would have lots of tanks in there! I actually was discussing about wanting a big tank tonight, but that I had to wait for a new house. I can always send you some fish too as an excuse to your wife! :hihi:


----------



## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Don't worry, if you want to see an algae disaster, come to my house. I have found that particular algae is easily remedied by vigilant manual removal. Eventually, it will go away with persistence! Good luck.


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

Trallen44 said:


> We thought you had been relaxing! LOL If I had as much room as you do in your office, I would have lots of tanks in there! I actually was discussing about wanting a big tank tonight, but that I had to wait for a new house. I can always send you some fish too as an excuse to your wife! :hihi:


My very understanding, smart and beautiful wife will let me do whatever I want in my office (She reads my journal thread at work so I had to say that:icon_wink). Seriously though I'm trying to decide about fish for the next one. I was going to use it for an Angel mated pair tank, but thinking now I'd like something different. Maybe some signifer, threadfin or Praecox rainbows with a small school of Cory's and some Hatchets for the top.


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

sewingalot said:


> Don't worry, if you want to see an algae disaster, come to my house. I have found that particular algae is easily remedied by vigilant manual removal. Eventually, it will go away with persistence! Good luck.


Thanks for the tip. I have been removing most of it but have also left some "control" areas to monitor it's reaction to the treatment. One thing I don't understand about this algae though is it seems to grow in the highest flow areas of the tank. I also found it's really tough for being so tiny and won't fully let go of the plants. It eventually breaks off but usually with a small piece left on the plant.


----------



## Trallen44 (Dec 10, 2008)

sunfire99 said:


> My very understanding, smart and beautiful wife will let me do whatever I want in my office (She reads my journal thread at work so I had to say that:icon_wink). Seriously though I'm trying to decide about fish for the next one. I was going to use it for an Angel mated pair tank, but thinking now I'd like something different. Maybe some signifer, threadfin or Praecox rainbows with a small school of Cory's and some Hatchets for the top.


I would be saying that too!!:thumbsup: Good job!! I think I just got myself in trouble. My wife said she was thinking and I responded we are in trouble now. I thought it was funny! Are you trying to copy my 55 for the new tank? LOL I actually am really happy with having smaller fish in the tank. It makes it a very active tank instead of fewer larger fish. Very peaceful to watch in my opinion. The signifers are really cool looking when the males are flareing at each other. Can't wait till you start a new thread on the hex.


----------



## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Good luck getting rid of the algae. You'll do it eventually.


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

Trallen44 said:


> I would be saying that too!!:thumbsup: Good job!! I think I just got myself in trouble. My wife said she was thinking and I responded we are in trouble now. I thought it was funny! Are you trying to copy my 55 for the new tank? LOL I actually am really happy with having smaller fish in the tank. It makes it a very active tank instead of fewer larger fish. Very peaceful to watch in my opinion. The signifers are really cool looking when the males are flareing at each other. Can't wait till you start a new thread on the hex.


It's all in the timing I think. lol I am doing the next tank, low light, but with CO2. I really do like some of your fish choices though. I'll PM you with some questions I have.


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

sewingalot said:


> Good luck getting rid of the algae. You'll do it eventually.


Thanks!! I think I've got it under control for now.


----------



## Trallen44 (Dec 10, 2008)

sunfire99 said:


> It's all in the timing I think. lol I am doing the next tank, low light, but with CO2. I really do like some of your fish choices though. I'll PM you with some questions I have.


Feel free to email me any time. Glad you have the algae under control!


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

Well, seems like most everything survived the blackout and Excel/H202 treatments. I do have several leaves shedding, and strangely melted a Melon Sword.:icon_sad: I have Vals that lasted better then that Sword did. The newly planted Sunset Hygro seemed to take it pretty hard as well. Several of the Hygro stems seperated and floated up. Just broke off it would appear. I noticed when I planted it, that it was very brittle and I could hear the stems snapping from 2 ft under water. Is that normal? Also noticing more Blyxa shedding than usual, but only one seems to be slightly discolored, and all of it pearled nicely today. 

The algae appears to be gone, but I'll be diligent with water changes and shortened photo period through the rest of this week keeping an eye out for it. The BBA that had remained on the leaf of a large sword turned a nice orange color which I believe means it's dead. All fish are accounted for, and nitrites finally completely disappeared 2 days ago.:icon_smil The nitrite had held on at very low levels (~.1PPM) for more than a week. I'll post some updated pics when everything perks up again. 

I'm assuming the addition of 6 Cory's and 8 Oto's spiked ammonia and caused the algae growth. I really didn't expect that much impact in 120 gallons of water though. I have ~20 Cardinals in isolation right now waiting to be put into the tank. I've also now decided to go with a large school of Cardinals with no other schooling fish. Does 50-60 seem out of bounds to anyone?


----------



## Trallen44 (Dec 10, 2008)

In a heavily planted tank, I think you can get away with that number. I would add them like you are in stages to get up to the number you want. You are going to have to get a better camera though to take really good pictures for us! Because a school like that is going to look awsome! And you public will demand pictures that look like fish! LOL


----------



## malaybiswas (Nov 2, 2008)

if ou feed them conservatively and clean the tank every week, that level of stocking should be just fine with your choice of fish. For the otos and corys you don't need anything to feed at all. otos will survive off the algae (there will be some even in the cleanest tank) and corys off the left overs.

Just feed the cardinals sparingly and you should be good.


----------



## Trallen44 (Dec 10, 2008)

And the tank looks like?!?!?!??!!??!?!?!?!?


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

I know the pictures still suck. I'm hoping to get a DSLR camera soon.
Full tank shot: I've added a few Cardinals, total is now 10. The Swords in the foreground have grown much faster than I thought they would and will need to be relocated sometime. 








Center:








Right side: There is some Sunset Hygro hiding in that back right corner, but I'm going to move it to the 42 gallon tank, and add some D. diandra there.








And the left (Kinda center) side: I guess I missed the left side shot when I uploaded. Oh well. 








And here's one of the little 20 gallon. The Bacopa is growing almost to the water line now. 15 Cardinals in isolation for a couple more weeks before I release them in the main tank. Amazingly, I did not see an ammonia or nitrite spike in this tank with what is now 20 small fish.:icon_eek:


----------



## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

*filling in nicely.*

Tanks are filling in nicely and all are looking really good :thumbsup: Your managing to limit algae so far is fantastic as well. Another month or so and I'll be bugging you for the secret.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

sunfire99 said:


> I know the pictures still suck. I'm hoping to get a DSLR camera soon....


this hobby starts to get expensive quick. it is still not so much as reef tanks. you will really enjoy it if you get a DSLR. they are more fun to use than point & shoots and you will also appreciate the image quality.

this tank is still looking great. you must either have a lot of luck or a good grip on water parameters because it appears to be still free of algae. i often have successions of algae blooms that persist for a couple of months in new tanks.


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

wkndracer said:


> Tanks are filling in nicely and all are looking really good :thumbsup: Your managing to limit algae so far is fantastic as well. Another month or so and I'll be bugging you for the secret.


Thanks Mike. I feel pretty good about the progress so far. You know I have no secret, just being careful. The small tank with such low light, requires no maintenance at all. I haven't ever even wiped off the glass. 



hydrophyte said:


> this hobby starts to get expensive quick. it is still not so much as reef tanks. you will really enjoy it if you get a DSLR. they are more fun to use than point & shoots and you will also appreciate the image quality.
> 
> this tank is still looking great. you must either have a lot of luck or a good grip on water parameters because it appears to be still free of algae. i often have successions of algae blooms that persist for a couple of months in new tanks.


Thanks for the comments. I think it's some of both to limit the algae. I had some Spyrogyra pop up which I treated aggressively, but I've not had real algae outbreaks, yet....... I am really attentive to water parameters, and have kept many tanks before, including reef tanks, which quickly teach you to keep, as perfect as you can, good quality water. I also work from home and am able to take good care of things. I really need a good camera, and just got a new Consumer Reports today that ironically reviews SLR cameras. At least I can use that investment for more than just the hobby though.


I'd appreciate any plant recommendations to put in that front piece of driftwood. I want something that will get a bit bushy and drape over the little log, without getting really tall. Would the Melon Sword I have just behind it look better in the log? I believe it will stay fairly short. There are a few Crypt Wendtii near where that Melon is now that will fill in that area.


----------



## Trallen44 (Dec 10, 2008)

sunfire99 said:


> I'd appreciate any plant recommendations to put in that front piece of driftwood. I want something that will get a bit bushy and drape over the little log, without getting really tall. Would the Melon Sword I have just behind it look better in the log? I believe it will stay fairly short. There are a few Crypt Wendtii near where that Melon is now that will fill in that area.


I think that will work. Or you could put a anubias in there. It is slow growing and would fit the bill I think you are looking for. Sure would have been nice to see a pic of the left side of the tank. But from the pics you did post, it is looking great! I will be glad when you get a better camera too! :hihi: I am jelous of this tank, but not enough to go high tech. I don't have enough time for that. Keep up the great work!


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

Looking at the tank again, I decided to go ahead and change out the plant in that front log. I took it out to make it easier, and immediately decided I like the tank better without the log. To me it looks deeper. The Swords in the front and midground will still have to move at some point. I need to find some plants for that midground area. The Marsilea is steadily growing and will eventually carpet the front area I believe, especially if I clip it and spread it out some more. 

Better or worse?









Left side for Tim:









And can anyone ID this narrow leafed plant?


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

i like it better now. that other log looked too artificial to me--was it a real log?--and its shape did not jive with the other things in there. 

that plant might be _Hygrophila angustifolia_.


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

hydrophyte said:


> i like it better now. that other log looked too artificial to me--was it a real log?--and its shape did not jive with the other things in there.
> 
> that plant might be _Hygrophila angustifolia_.


Not real. None of it is and I really want to get most of it covered up with plants. I had looked at Hygro Augustifolia but most of the pics have it in a shorter form. Other than that it kind of fits. It was an extra in a plant package and grew tall very quickly at first, and now just mostly gets bushier. I like it but never was sure what it is.


----------



## Trallen44 (Dec 10, 2008)

About time you got a pic of the left side!! LMAO Looking great!


----------



## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Looking very good. I am really starting to like the layout.


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

Thanks for the nice comments. The stems I had added last week really popped up some height this week and can now be seen, so I thought I'd post a picture following the trim I just finished. I still want to get those Swords moved, and have something coming to try in their place. I robbed the Bacopa Caroliniana from the front left also to put in my new tank. It wasn't intended to stay there anyway. 

The Marselia is spreading nicely, and the Ammania sp Bonsai is growing really well also. Seems like the tank has found some new balance and more things are growing faster. The Alternanthera even decided to add some nice growth. I added some D. Diandra to the back right corner today, moving the Hygro Sunset to the new tank also. 

I still wish I had selected a "better" substrate, but I am liking the tank more and more as I figure out the characteristics of the plants I started with and make some changes to better suit me. 

New fts:









Going to add 15 additional Cardinals this weekend bringing the total to 25 and pick up about 20 more for isolation. I'll finish the Cardinal school before I add Angels.


----------



## Trallen44 (Dec 10, 2008)

Looking really good! You forgot a pic of the left side though! :hihi: I think that is a great idea to finish adding all your cardinals first and then putting in the angels. I think if you put in small angels you will have a great chance of them all getting along.


----------



## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

You know, I kind of like the substrate. That looks exactly like what mine was/is. I just dumped bags of flourite on top and it eventually mixed together. I love the latest look. I am jealous over the Diandra. I killed mine both times I bought it. Those cardinals are sweet.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

if you don't like that gravel you can just remove it little buy little and replace with finer gravel/sand, eventually having just some of it in there. such a mixture of grain sizes can actually create a very natural appearance. as long as you don't stir the bottom too much they tend to sort themselves by size just like they do in a real stream, which looks cool.


----------



## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

Still maintaining a nice balance and very clean look. :thumbsup: Filling in nicely.


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

sewingalot said:


> You know, I kind of like the substrate. That looks exactly like what mine was/is. I just dumped bags of flourite on top and it eventually mixed together. I love the latest look. I am jealous over the Diandra. I killed mine both times I bought it. Those cardinals are sweet.





hydrophyte said:


> if you don't like that gravel you can just remove it little buy little and replace with finer gravel/sand, eventually having just some of it in there. such a mixture of grain sizes can actually create a very natural appearance. as long as you don't stir the bottom too much they tend to sort themselves by size just like they do in a real stream, which looks cool.


I like the look of it, but it's hell to get something to stay planted without getting it really deep, and some plants just can't stand being planted 2 inches deep, like Crypts. Mike, aka wkndrcr suggested adding finer substrate on top also, and I've been thinking about removing some of it slowly, or at the very least adding some fluorite that I picked up, that has a real natural brown color that won't clash with the existing substrate(s). I think I will add a little at a time as I get access when moving plants around, etc.


----------



## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Sounds like a good plan. I added about 4 -5 sandwich baggies of flourite at a time when replanting. I slowly lowered it into the water and just dumped it in a location. It worked wonders. I understand about not being able to plant certain stems. Lindernia and Bacopa gives me fits.


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

One new FTS today. I pulled the Swords and added some Pogostemon and a couple of Downoi. I noticed one small whitish spot on a Cardinal today. Not sure that it's ich or anything at all right now because it is very raised, and a little yellowish for ich. I'll watch them closely to see if any others show anything. I just moved 15 into this tank a few days ago, and Cardinals seem to stress so easily. I hate the thought of medicating the tank, but no way I'm catching that one fish out of the school to move to another tank. I already tried.


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

I was able to get a better look at that spot on the Cardinal and it appears to be some sort of a fungus or parasite. I increased temperature to 83-84 and will keep an eye on them. Water parameters are 0 Ammon, 0 Nitrite, ~10 Nitrate, PH 7.2, KH 3-4, GH 5, Phos .2, Temp before todays change 80


----------



## Trallen44 (Dec 10, 2008)

Tank is really filling in and looking great!!!! :drool:


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

Thanks Tim. The spot on that Cardinal has stayed the same. No others showing any signs so I've turned temp back to 80. I got a new to me camera that I've been playing with. A friend had a Sony with a broken button that I was able to repair. It's a DSC-H5 and a much better camera than what I had been using. Here's a couple shots of my 20 gallon and I'll put up some shots of the main tank this afternoon when lights are on.

FTS:









One of the Panda Cory's:










Main tank photo updates later.


----------



## legomaniac89 (Mar 16, 2008)

Lookin good man. It's growing in really well


----------



## Trallen44 (Dec 10, 2008)

Now I know your wife is taking your pics!! :hihi: The 20 is looking great, as well as the little Panda cory. Are you going to add more Cardinals to the main tank soon? How many do you have in there now? Keep up the great work!


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

lego, thanks for the nice comments.

Tim, there are 25 Cardinals in the main tank now, and I have 20 more in the 20 gallon right now that will be moving to the main tank in a couple weeks. I got them locally from a TPT member. I'll see if my wife is ready to take some photos of the other tank yet.


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

Some new shots:


----------



## Trallen44 (Dec 10, 2008)

:drool::drool::drool: Now that I can really see this tank good, I am even more jelous. It is really looking great and filling in nicely! roud: I know it will only get better looking as time goes on and it fills in even more.


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

Trallen44 said:


> :drool::drool::drool: Now that I can really see this tank good, I am even more jelous. It is really looking great and filling in nicely! roud: I know it will only get better looking as time goes on and it fills in even more.


Thanks man. This new camera really does take better pictures. I'm looking forward to this growing in some more, and finally getting some Angels in a few more weeks. The bigger I make the school of Cardinals, the better I like them also. They really look good with the plants in the background.


----------



## vtkid (Jan 5, 2009)

i like your plant selection, it must be fun to work with such a large tank


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

vtkid said:


> i like your plant selection, it must be fun to work with such a large tank


Thanks. I like the large tank. Even with a big tank I've had some decisions to make about what I want to keep. 

Thought I'd make a quick update to the status. I did develop a small bit of GSA that a bump in PO4 levels seem to have eliminated. I dose the tank pretty lean and with the plants increasing in overall mass and growth rate, the PO4 levels had dropped to ~.1-.2ppm early in the photoperiod. I didn't check it before I added enough fert to raise it to 1.0 ppm, but I assume by the end of the growing period the phos levels would have been near zero.

Here's the latest FTS:









And here's a couple shots of the Cardinal school which is now 48 strong. I can't seem to find the settings to shorten the exposure of these shots (I have no users manual for this camera), so most of the fish are blurry.


----------



## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

hey this looks great. somehow i missed the 6-14 update. your plants look really happy. i didn't like that coarse gravel so much before, but now that the plants have grown in i think it looks better. your photo quality is much better too.


----------



## Trallen44 (Dec 10, 2008)

Looking great! Love the large school of cards! Keep up the good work!:thumbsup:


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

*Angels have arrived*

The tank is doing great, and the Cardinals are doing really well. I've learned I have to trim often to keep it the way I want it and we finally got the Angels for this tank which is why this project ever got started. I picked up 6 and they are in my 20 gallon tank for a few weeks before I move them to the big tank. They are all quarter sized, eating well and all appear healthy at this point. Here's some shots.
















































And just because it's such a nice picture, here's a shot of my pond which I added some goldfish to yesterday. You can't really see the pond, but it's a nice shot of the flowerbeds and the stream that flows into it.


----------



## Trallen44 (Dec 10, 2008)

Hey Steve, So when are you heading over to build my pond and stream? :hihi: That is truely beautiful! :drool: Love your angels, which one was the had to have? I am counting down the days now to see them in the big tank with all the cardinals.


----------



## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

Nice looking blusher, blusher cross and the blur looks like a pearl scale :thumbsup:

Glad my wife's not following your string as your pond photo could very easily haunt me.

Nice to see fish in your tanks.


----------



## beginerplanted (Jul 1, 2009)

I wish i had some panda cories like yours


----------



## Strick (Apr 6, 2009)

Nice pics! And a beautiful tank!! Congratulations!


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

Strick said:


> Nice pics! And a beautiful tank!! Congratulations!


Thanks for the nice comments.:thumbsup:


----------



## Trallen44 (Dec 10, 2008)

How are the tanks and the new fish? I thought I was going to see some new pics today. :icon_roll LMAO Have a great day!!


----------



## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Hey, it's been a while since I checked in.
Things are doing great! The plants are looking awesome and everything!


----------



## fastfreddie (Sep 10, 2008)

Those cardinals look great and..... SWEET POND!


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

Thanks guys. I got anxious and moved the Angels into the main tank this past weekend along with 3 Panda Cory's. Still having a small bout with GSA on the substrate, but not on the glass any more. Plants require regular trimming and the Blyxa sheds about 6 or 8 plants each week now that I've just been tossing out. Here's some pictures.



















My favorite fish but not a good picture.


----------



## Trallen44 (Dec 10, 2008)

Looking awesome!! Worth the wait on the pics. LOL


----------



## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

Nice pics! And the tank is turning jungle beautiful!!! Congratulations on healthy looking angels too! Just feed those little piggy's until they're belly's are nice and round each time and how they will grow. Funny how they never think they've ate enough when growing. Just load a marble in them and cut 'em off the chow line.:icon_wink


----------



## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

Nice tank.


----------



## sunfire99 (Apr 8, 2009)

wkndracer said:


> Nice pics! And the tank is turning jungle beautiful!!! Congratulations on healthy looking angels too! Just feed those little piggy's until they're belly's are nice and round each time and how they will grow. Funny how they never think they've ate enough when growing. Just load a marble in them and cut 'em off the chow line.:icon_wink





gmccreedy said:


> Nice tank.





Trallen44 said:


> Looking awesome!! Worth the wait on the pics. LOL


Thanks for the nice comments. I've been very busy and haven't been on much lately. I finally got the new SLR camera and took some new photos to post. Still have some residual GSA on the substrate, but doesn't seem to get any worse. No water changes now for about a month and no ill effects. I hope you enjoy!!

Full tank shot.








Fish








This one just finished treatment for popeye and seems to have recovered completely. Thankfully.


----------



## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

Looking great! the planted elevation with the hard scape has really come together. Angels are growing in nicely too.


----------



## Trallen44 (Dec 10, 2008)

Tank and fish look really great!! Keep up the good work!!!


----------

