# Thinking of having Discus in my tank



## gabloo (Apr 26, 2011)

Hey guys,

I just finish setting up 55 gallon low tech aquarium with 2" of marcel-gro organic soil with 1" of sand on the top. I have following plants bought and planted

Amazon Sword Plan
Red Ludwigia
start grass
Limnophila 'silvertip'
Rotala sp 'Gia Lai'
Limnophila sp 'Broad'
Limnophila aromatica 
Bacopa sp 'Araguaia'
Fissidens
Flame
Weeeping
Lindneria
Vesuvius
Arcuata

Going to equip with 

Rena Xp3
Hydor THEO submersible 400W heater

I was planing to add some just tetra, cory, shrimp and alge eater but I read about discus and i suddenly fall in love with it. Now, i am facing a huge problem since discus need very clean water and high temperature, will my plants and setup work for them?

I am planning to put cory and neno tetra with them. Will it be fine? what other fish go with them peacefully. Ofcuz, i will love to breed them  if chances are given.

Please share your experience with me. Things to prepare or avoid before i add them. I just set it up so, i have 4 more weeks before i will add them.

Thanks guys.


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## BlazednSleepy (Aug 21, 2010)

Cories wont work in discus tank due to the higher temperatures.

Sterbai Cories supposedly can handle the higher temps fine.

And it depends on the algea eater. Gotta research which are compatible.

And Cardinal tetras will do fine and rasboras. 

Shrimp wont work.

Plants should be fine. Not sure about the soil though.


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## gabloo (Apr 26, 2011)

What about my heater and canister? I just bought it so, it on it way, but i can still cancel and get better one.


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## fresh.salty (Jul 2, 2010)

Am I overlooking the tank size in your post?

Regardless, discus can be serious commitment as far as time spent on tank maintenance.


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## Erotica Aquatica (Apr 5, 2011)

Kind of a misconception about shrimp with discus... as long as they are of decent size and have plenty of room to hide you should be okay. i have 3 discus in a 55 with about 30 gertrudae rainbows and 30+ amano shrimp. running with an eheim 2215 and pressurized co2. Knowing the size of your tank would help...

ph varies between day and night but wont rise above 6.8 (i hope) and i keep temp at at least 82., and everything seems to be working out great. clean water is a key and also watchout for parasites, alot of the time discus that come strait from a store get parasites.


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## gabloo (Apr 26, 2011)

Sorry. I have 55 gallon tank but if i take off soil and sand, it will give me around 45. Edited my post too.


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## Erotica Aquatica (Apr 5, 2011)

I say go for it, just dont put too many in there. I would start out with 3 of them. They're incredible fish, and everyone will love to see them. At first they will probably be much more skiddish than any other fish you've taken home, but in time they should become very comfortable in their new home (especially if they have a lot of plants or areas to hide in.

Good Luck!


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## gabloo (Apr 26, 2011)

Well Erotica,

I heard best to keep them in 6. So I m going to get it, i will get at least 6.


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## Franzi (Dec 7, 2009)

Sounds like a lot of stuff you're cramming in to a 55g. You say the substrate is gonna take up about 10 gallons, then the plants are gonna take up plenty of space too. Don't forget, discus get big. 

Some of those plants might not fair so well at higher temps.


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## discuspaul (Jul 27, 2010)

Your tank is about the smallest suggested size for keeping discus. It can certainly work but be prepared for the extra attention needed to properly deal with their intolerance of poor water quality. You'll need to seriously consider having to religiously maintain a routine of at least 2, if not 3 or more water changes, of 50% or more, weekly, with good filtration & an above average filter and tank cleaning regime. (Your filter & heater are fine).
1,2,3, or 4 discus are not good numbers - they're cichlids & you'll get a lot of aggression
/pecking order problems. 5 discus is a minimum number to keep them happy & comfortable with each other, and that's the maximum number you should keep in that size of tank. Nonetheless be prepared for slower growth of the fish, with some potential stunting. 82-84 degrees F is about the lowest temp for keeping discus, and suprisingly, a lot of plants (most of yours are okay) will do alright at that temp, and so will most cories (except pandas and perhaps a couple of others), amano shrimp, and some algae eaters are ok too. Neons are iffy tankmates, but cardinals, rummy-noses and some other tetras- e.g. lemons-serpai - would be fine.
Having said all of that - don't be turned off - if you're prepared to work a little harder - go for it. It can certainly be done successfully. Discus are tougher than most people think. Just stay away from very young ones - under 3" - go for 4" or +.
Don't hesitate to contact me if you want more info.
Paul
Good luck.


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## antbug (May 28, 2010)

BlazednSleepy said:


> Cories wont work in discus tank due to the higher temperatures.
> 
> Sterbai Cories supposedly can handle the higher temps fine.
> 
> ...


Not true at all. I have 6 Julii's in my tank and they are happy at 84 degrees. I also ahve hundreds of RCS in this tank and they breed like crazy.


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## gabloo (Apr 26, 2011)

Will my rena xp3 clean up the tank better? Do i still need to change water everyday even if i have xp3 installed? Just wondering.


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## discuspaul (Jul 27, 2010)

As I mentioned before, you don't necessarily need to do daily wcs, but be prepared for at least twice a week, of 50% or more. A lot depends on the type of substrate you use, how heavily planted your tank is, how heavily you feed, and your cleaning/maintenance routines - vacuuming, rinsing filter media, glass wipedowns & so on.
A several hours per week commitment is required to keep discus healthy & happy.
btw - your Rena XP3 will be just fine.
Hope this helps.
Also, I don't know if you're familiar with the super discus forum, simplydiscus.com, but you may find it helpful to look it up & read through my illustrated article - "Beginner's Guide to Getting Started with Discus" - you can find it as a Sticky in the Discus Basics for Beginners section of the forum.


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## discuspaul (Jul 27, 2010)

Oh, and gabloo, thought I'd mention that my 75 gal discus tank has PFS as substrate - very easy to clean up & I think it looks real good. I also keep, as tankmates for the discus, cardinal tetras, copper rasboras, bronze and emerald cories, and amano shrimp.
Have a look if you wish - the pics were taken about 3 months ago, and the discus have grown a lot since then, and I have since sold a couple - mine were 3" juvies at the time: Link:
http://s1105.photobucket.com/albums/h357/discuspaul/FTS-Osaka260


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## gabloo (Apr 26, 2011)

Discuspaul - yes i signed up on that forum but i don't have permission to post anything yet. I have been reading a lot of discus and still and will read for next 3 weeks. Your tank look very neat, I wish i found discus before i put in soil and sand as a substrate. I got another question, my tank is 48" x 13"x 20" . Will my tank too narrow for them?


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## discuspaul (Jul 27, 2010)

If your tank is 48" long X 20" high X 13" wide (from front to back) it will be very nice for discus. Much less so, if it's only 13" high X 20" wide.


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## gabloo (Apr 26, 2011)

Ya its 13 wide.


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## discuspaul (Jul 27, 2010)

Great - that will make for a really nice discus tank - they're certainly much more comfortable in a high tank - it would be "nice" if it was wider than 13", but that will do okay. And I think you can do all right with 6 discus in your tank, as long as you don't have too many other fish. If you want to have Cories, Tetras & maybe one more species, I suggest you limit the total number of other fish to under 20.
Anything else I can help with, don't hesitate to ask here, or pm me if you wish.


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## rickztahone (Jul 20, 2009)

multi-weekly water changes are not necessary with discus in a fully planted tank. I have seen plenty of people on SD, including a very well known sponsor, Chad, raise some awesome looking albinos with 1x weekly water change. you really have to get a knack for growing discus and once you've done that you can be more lax on raising them. For the beginner i do suggest many water changes to help your changes but it isn't NEEDED as mentioned prior to get good quality, big, healthy discus.


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## discuspaul (Jul 27, 2010)

I don't disagree with you Rick, but as you and I know, Chad is a pro with both discus & planted tanks.
I certainly wouldn't recommend that for a relative newbie to both discus & planted tanks.
Better that gabloo goes with 2 or 3 weekly wcs, at least to begin with, to get his feet wet & gain some experience. Otherwise, you might have a lot of beginners thinking they can get away with a once weekly wc so long as they've got a well planted tank. LOL
IMO that would be risky business - and I'm quite sure you wouldn't disagree with that.


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## gabloo (Apr 26, 2011)

I will do 2 or 3 wc every week. My tank is 20 " deep but about 3" are covered with soil and sand . I think i know what i m going to get as a living stock in my tank and plants. But i am have big trouble with light. I don't want to spend too much and want to get a decent one. The fixture that i have is about 4" and it only can handle one light. Got any input on that?


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## discuspaul (Jul 27, 2010)

Don't know what your budget might be, and I'm no expert on lighting, but I suggest you try and find a dual bulb fixture to fit your tank, and consider 2 T5 HO bulbs of 39 watts each, or of somewhat lesser wattage. Wherever you buy, hopefully there will be someone of experience with lighting who can guide you well.


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## fresh.salty (Jul 2, 2010)

Fairly cheap fixtures on eBay. Might want to have dual plugs/switches so you have more control.

I love discus but can't make the commitment to the care they need. 2-4 WC's a week it would get old fast and they'd suffer.


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## pandacory (Apr 18, 2011)

Been watching this thread closely. Also have an interest in discus for natural planted tank. But probably going to go with angels for a more hardy fish until I have more time to dedicate, and more time in on the hobby, although taking the plunge and seeing where the chips fall sounds much more exciting!

2x39w for 78w on 55g (est 1.4 to 1.6w per gallon of water depending on scape) sounds low without sunlight supplement. 

I've had good luck with t8 shop lights with daylight bulbs on an open top tank. Each is 32w, so you would need 2+ min. I run two tubes in a 25$ spotlight over a 29 g with decent results, but I do get a little sun at an off angle.

Are discus too sensitive to risk sun exposure on the tank? Natural planted method means that eventually you have only 6mo wc. Are discus too sensitive for letting the mulm lie? haven't been able to find anything on anyone keeping discus in natural planted, only high tech.

Thanks for sharing, ill try to do the same.


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## pandacory (Apr 18, 2011)

Ps http://www.plantedtank.net/articles/DIY-Light-Hood/9/
Gave me the idea to use shop lights. Though mine are hanging from a rack shelf. I chose the Lithuania brand with the chain pull from home depot bc it says its good for damp (not wet!) Environments.

4 bulbs = 128 w without overdriving.
At 48-55 g = 2.3 to 2.6 w per gallon. Maybe remove one bulb and put it back if you add co2 later?


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## discuspaul (Jul 27, 2010)

My experience with T5 HO's in a low tech, medium density planted tank with no CO2, is that 1.0 to 1.5 wpg is ample enough to grow plants well, and keep algae under good control, while dosing Excel. Over 2.0 wpg is inviting problems imo & e. And you don't need any sunlight supplement. I have 2 T5 HO's X 39 w each on my 75 gal. tank, with a 9 hour lighting period, and the plants do very well - with little or no algae to speak of.
Pandacory, I don't know if you had a look at my tank, but I'll repeat the link here for you to have a peek.
http://s1105.photobucket.com/albums/h357/discuspaul/FTS-Osaka260
Substrate is PFS which is easily well cleaned of detritus and feces with each wc - I only do 2 - 60% wcs per week, and have maintained crystal clear water, with no algae problems for over a year. The sand remains almost pure white and the plants grow well with root fert tabs & liquid ferts, along with Excel dosing.
If you have a yen for discus, give it a try - you won't be at all sorry. Just takes a touch more work than with other species, and aittle more attention to clean-up & filtration routines. Said it before, and I'll say it again - discus are tougher than most people think, and not really difficult to care for, SO LONG AS you buy excellent, healthy stock of a reasonable size (3" or over).


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## discuspaul (Jul 27, 2010)

And BTW, most discus keepers I know who run planted tanks, don't have high tech/don't use CO2.


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## Finalplay10 (Jun 29, 2010)

Oh that's a let down ... Impossible to use C02 on a discus tank or just not recommended ? Reasons ?


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## oscarsx (Mar 15, 2011)

Discuspaul is the master of discus... listen to him and HIM only. lOl


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## pandacory (Apr 18, 2011)

Thanks for the feedback.

I plan on setting up a natural planted tank soon as my interest in the hobby is moving toward larger set and forget tanks, with smaller tanks for scaping experiments to keep my interest and creativity flowing.

A useful exercise may be if I can maintain the proper discus water parameters in a tank with similar bio-loading before risking the lives and $ of our fishy friends!

Any recommended sources on full discus water parameters, tank mates, lighting limitations, substrate, plant, and tank requirements would be amazing. I'd love to get the 411 from an experienced pro rather than sift through mountains of probable bull on the web.

The goal of the project would be to set up a discus ready tank, sans discus that could potentially house them. Transfer them in when successful, then maintain as needed until tank re-adjusts and picks up natural planted behavior again.

Thanks for any direction! I've wanted these since I started, and pics of discus in planted tanks is what convinced me to take on planted tanks!


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## gabloo (Apr 26, 2011)

My filter and other supply are coming in today. So, I am wondering, since i am going to wc today, shoulld i take off all of my soil and sand and put just sand in? That will give me neater look plus gain 10 + gallon in my tank. What i m worry is, will my plants survive just in sand substrate? I am very very sure about going with discus, cory, pelco and tetra. I will pretty much copy Discuspaul Layout . Let me know what you guys think?


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## discuspaul (Jul 27, 2010)

I have 3 messages for you folks, and I'll respond to the above queries one at a time for ease of reference and clarity:
Note for Finalplay10:
No, it's certainly not impossible to use CO2 in a planted discus tank. (I'm going to graduate myself to that very shortly). It's just that it makes things more difficult, at least at first, when you're just beginning to gain experience with discus - mainly because a lot of your attention is geared to the growth and development of your plants, rather than the focus being on keeping the tank as clean and free of debris as possible.
Discus are large fish that need a good amount of swimming space, and you will want to maintain a fairly large, clear area at the front of your tank, to make it easier to vac up all the waste material from the fish, and the relatively heavy feeding regimen. I don't need to tell you also that heavy plantings will naturally trap a lot of food - which is not a good scenario with discus.
I strongly suggest you master keeping discus healthy & thriving first, then move your efforts up to heavier aquascaping & a CO2 environment.


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## discuspaul (Jul 27, 2010)

To Pandacory:
You have exactly the right attitude & approach for getting started properly with discus.
Many of your questions on water params, discus takmates, etc., I believe will be answered by your reading my "Beginner's Guide to Getting Started with Discus" - to be found as a Sticky in the 'Discus Basics for Beginners' section of the simplydiscus.com forum. I think it will help you move in to discus-keeping with some confidence in what you are doing.


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

why would you get rid of the soil? read my thread. i have discus thriving in a soil tank with monthly water changes.

all this extremism is great if you are trying to grow out prize winning fish, but its not required .


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## discuspaul (Jul 27, 2010)

For gabloo:
For the sake of maintaining the optimum water quality conditions for discus, at least to begin with, I would suggest you remove your existing soil/sand mixture, and prepare to go with only sand only - white silica PFS is my recommendation. Your plants can & will survive (as mine do) in sand only, with the use of root tab ferts, Excel & other liquid ferts dosed on a regular basis. Some discus folks do well with root tabs, along with an EI fert system, and as I've said before, others who are well-experienced with discus, will use a CO2 system.
As you probably know by now, many discus keepers, particularly those growing out juvies, swear by bare-bottom tanks, and discourage planted tank set-ups - mainly for the better results in growing out larger fish, the ease of cleaning with less work, less things to go wrong, & to maintain high quality water conditions.
But I feel a lot of of good enjoyment, and a much better looking, natural environment, is lost that way - it just takes somewhat more attention & dedication to going the planted route. That's my .02


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## discuspaul (Jul 27, 2010)

My above post is simply how I feel - my opinion - but on the other hand, nonconductive is correct too, you can keep discus successfully in a soil/sand substrate. It's just my belief that when you're getting started with discus, it's better to keep matters as simple as possible to reduce the number of things which can go wrong, or get messed up, when your focus really needs to be on learning the characteristics of discus & the routines that will keep them healthy & thriving.


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## gabloo (Apr 26, 2011)

Nonconduct - the reason I wanna move soil is cus I think it's taking good amount of space in my 55 g tank. I will post picture of my tank. I just want to give little more space for my discus since I m planning to keep 6 discus, 3 small pelcos, 6-11 cory,12 tetra and red cherry shrimps.

Discuspaul - thanks for taking your time asking all my noob questions . I think I will leave half inch of soil and 1 inch of sand on top what you think? Do you have any comment on those life stock that I m going to put in?

Thank you guys, I am trying to make perfect,low budgeted, discus planted tank. Trying not to make any mistake hehe.


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## discuspaul (Jul 27, 2010)

Soil with sand on top is fine gabloo, and it will certainly provide a better, more fertile environment for your plants, giving stronger growth. Just keep in mind though, that your vac & clean-up efforts will likely bring soil to the surface, and some mixing of the 2 substrates will occur, which you may not like over time. You just need to be careful of that.
Also, I find that particularly in the clear area at the front of the tank, with each wc or so, I like to stir the sand up somewhat, to turn over any lightly discolored areas, and bring clean sand back up to the surface to give it a fresher look. In the deeper areas at the rear, where most of the plantings are, I stir there as well occasionally, to prevent aenorobic pockets from developing. But of course, do what you would like to do.
As for tankmates, here's my suggestions:
a) Many plecos are not good tankmates for discus - some grow quite large, are messy eaters and foragers, and MAY tend to stress discus. And they may not do well at the higher temp. I have found that BN plecos, though, are very good tankmates for discus.
b) You only have a 55 gal tank, so be a little careful of overcrowding, which makes it harder to maintain ideal water conditions, among other things. Sounds like you're leaning towards close to 3 dozen other fish besides the 6 discus, and that would be on the high side, especially as the discus mature to adulthood. Easier to keep the tank in much better condition with understocking. Suggest you cut down the number of cories and tetras - maybe no more than 6 cories, and 8 or 10 tetras, for example.
c) Haven't tried red cherry shrimps with discus, and they may be fine, as long as they're a decent size, so they don't become lunch for the discus. I have Amanos - not as pretty as the reds, but do very well with discus.
Hope this helps.


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## pandacory (Apr 18, 2011)

Cories + sand = turbid water IME

Cories + any loose substrate + un-established or shallow rooted plants = floating mess

Make sure to use larger grain sand with cories, and let plants establish before introduction.

I would think cherries need a lot of cover from any chiclid, dense ground cover may not jive with discuspaul's recommended maintenance. Also, my cherries really appreciate lace rock for hiding, esp the babies.


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## discuspaul (Jul 27, 2010)

hey pandacory - please forgive this little chuckle on my part - but what kind of cories are you talking about ?? LOL
I have 4 different strains of Cories in my discus tank, for over a year, and I've never had any hint of turpidity in my tank with PFS, and I've never had a single plant disrupted whatsoever by the cories. And PFS is probably one of the safest substrates you can use with cories, and it is fine grain.
(And with PFS, you hardly even need to rinse it when it's new - very little, if any, dust is ever created = no turpidity whatsoever.)
You sure you weren't referring to Pleco behavior and results ?
Sorry, no offense meant.


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## rickztahone (Jul 20, 2009)

Listen to Paul, he knows his stuff. I'm going to break this down to the simplest terms: discus need clean water to thrive. That's the bottom line. Can they be kept in an environment in which it isn't ideal for them to thrive? Sure! One thing I have to keep in mind is that not everyone who wants and has discus wants huge discus. In the discus hobby almost everyone wants huge discus and we try to create the best possible environment for them to reach that goal. With that being said, having a fully planted tank creates unnecessary obstacles that most discus hobbyist try to avoid. KISS (keep it simple stupid) are words to live by in that hobby. But again, discus can survive in an array of water parameters and environments, but most stick to the basics to raise big discus.


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## discuspaul (Jul 27, 2010)

rickztahone said:


> Listen to Paul, he knows his stuff. I'm going to break this down to the simplest terms: discus need clean water to thrive. That's the bottom line. Can they be kept in an environment in which it isn't ideal for them to thrive? Sure! One thing I have to keep in mind is that not everyone who wants and has discus wants huge discus. In the discus hobby almost everyone wants huge discus and we try to create the best possible environment for them to reach that goal. With that being said, having a fully planted tank creates unnecessary obstacles that most discus hobbyist try to avoid. KISS (keep it simple stupid) are words to live by in that hobby. But again, discus can survive in an array of water parameters and environments, but most stick to the basics to raise big discus.


Except for the very first sentence in Rick's post above - lol, I agree with every single word of his foregoing comments !!!!


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## pandacory (Apr 18, 2011)

When I first started I was sold a sand that was very fine grained. The cories would root around and kick up a little dust trail like a dune buggy, it would swirl a little in the column then settle. You could tell where they had been in the last minute or so! When they grouped up it was like a little dust devil! thought it looked neat at first until everything started to get dusty looking. Admittedly I did not rinse it. Did not know I had to at the time.

My panda cories like to follow the chain on the micro sword and get underneath it, up rooting one section at a time. I don't think I planted it deep enough.

Probably just noob probs, but I throw it out there so others can possibly learn from my mistakes.


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## gabloo (Apr 26, 2011)

I went without taking soil and sand out. I am gonna give it a shot with my initial setup. Crossing my fingers here lol. If it doesn't work out then I will resetup my tank with just sand. 

I don't usually see people put air stones in discus tank but from what I read, it good to put air stone in there to boost the oxygen level since water will have very low oxygen level due to the temperature? What do you have to say on that paul?

Here the pic of my tank


image upload


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## discuspaul (Jul 27, 2010)

Very nice looking set-up, gabloo.
As for air stones, I don't, & have not for a very long time, used one. But I have 2 AC 110's on my 75 gal. which provide good circulation & fairly strong surface agitation in my uncovered tank, and I've not been concerned with added oxygenation.
But some discuskeepers do use airstones, or have several sponge filters to provide extra oxygen besides filtration, and those people running CO2 in planted discus tanks find it beneficial to provide oxygenation at intervals/part of the time. Haven't used CO2 yet myself, so not sure of the need in that case.
In your case, you'll need to be the judge of whether or not it would be helpful in your tank.
Good luck with the sand/soil combo - should work out well for you.


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