# How to get Sword to send out runners?



## FrostyNYC (Nov 5, 2007)

HA. I'm having the same problem with a Rubin sword. 10 gallon tank, 40 watts of light, EI, and pressurized CO2. The sword is absolutely gorgeous, has more than 25 stunning leaves, but no reproduction. I've had mine for... oh, 13 months. Maybe if we put our two swords into a room, and dimmed the lights?


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## lopez_316us (Jan 25, 2008)

Same problem here!!!:icon_cry::icon_cry:


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

FrostyNYC said:


> Maybe if we put our two swords into a room, and dimmed the lights?


LOL. But we don't know their gender yet


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## Fishy_Fun (Feb 9, 2008)

mine is just an amazon and i've only had it about 3 months and i got tons of runners.You should use some root tabs since they get there nutrients through the roots and not so much through the leaves.I have also supplemented iron too


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## mmarnold (Nov 16, 2008)

I have a red rubin sword about 2 feet tall and it is Huge!It sends out new plants like crazy.All I do is the put in some fert sticks around the roots and use excel.


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

So it seems like root tabs are the key.

What if I just suck up the ferts in a syringe and squirt it at the base of the plant? Would that work?


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## mmarnold (Nov 16, 2008)

ZooTycoonMaster said:


> So it seems like root tabs are the key.
> 
> What if I just suck up the ferts in a syringe and squirt it at the base of the plant? Would that work?


I would think It would just disperse and not work at all.I think the key is getting a "mother" plant.


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## thirston (Nov 17, 2004)

ZooTycoonMaster said:


> So it seems like root tabs are the key.
> 
> What if I just suck up the ferts in a syringe and squirt it at the base of the plant? Would that work?


No :eek5: You would still be fertilizing the water column. Try some root tabs as others have recommended. It sounds as if your plant is healthy and growing well so I wouldn't change anything other than trying to give the root system a little boost.


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

Ok I just added some Flourish root tabs...hope they work

Btw will the stalk with the runners grow vertically or horizontally?


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## mmarnold (Nov 16, 2008)

It will send out a horizontal rizome.The plantlets will be attached to that.Usually one at a time.But mine quickly replaces them after I pick them.The rizome is about 3-4 inches long and 1/2 in diam.


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## IrishRover (Dec 4, 2008)

Horizontally...

I have one that keeps its runners in the substrate, but the others always end up on top and I bury them later.


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## DaveS (Mar 2, 2008)

Actually, ozelots and all others sword I have kept don't send out runners at all. They (at least mine) grow new plants on a vertical growth that starts with a few buds on it. This new growth can easily reach the top of a 75 g tank, so you might need to gently bend it down to keep from drying out. After some time, those buds will form into new plants. Once those plants start to grow roots, you can trim them and plant them. There are probably swords that do send out runners horizontally, but amazons, melon and ozelots are all I have experience with and they all propagate in the same mannner.

I can't imagine an ozelot having the required space in 10g tank. I have one that fills a good 1/3 of a 46g tank and it needs to be pruned from time to time. Perhaps the plant isn't shooting out new plantlets because the space is so limited..

Dave


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

DaveS said:


> Actually, ozelots and all others sword I have kept don't send out runners at all. They (at least mine) grow new plants on a vertical growth that starts with a few buds on it. This new growth can easily reach the top of a 75 g tank, so you might need to gently bend it down to keep from drying out. After some time, those buds will form into new plants. Once those plants start to grow roots, you can trim them and plant them. There are probably swords that do send out runners horizontally, but amazons, melon and ozelots are all I have experience with and they all propagate in the same mannner.


Yeah, like the ones that lauraleelbp has; that's sort of what I was talking about.

Those aren't considered runners?


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

FWIW, I treated my amazon like a spider plant. The runners start in the fall when the daylight shortens, thus sending out a runner and encouraging propagation. So, what I did to start my sword to send out runners was the following:

1. Up root the plant and trim some of the root ball (no more than a third)
2. Trim off any struggling leaves close as possible to the crown.
3. Make sure the crown is not buried when replanting, and insert a root tab away from the plant a couple inches to encourage the roots to seek out the ferts.
4. Dose lots of iron and other ferts. Even though they are "root feeders" amazons love water column dosing and really appreciate the addition of both types of fertilizing.
5. Change photo period for a few weeks by a couple hours less if possible. Then adjust lights quickly back to original time.

This has always sent runners out for me. It is the one type plant I have been successful with to the point it always outgrows my tanks. I want to get a 90 gallon corner tank with a show piece amazon one day, but I am broke..... Hope this helps.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Oh, and here's a great link

http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Plants/Echinodorus.html#1


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## Daniel*Swords (May 8, 2006)

First, the swords (_Echinodorus_) do not send out runners. They grow flower stalks that can be erect or decumbent. Usually, this depends on the species (or hybrid) but the growing conditions have an impact, too. The flower stalk can grow only upto a certain length with a certain number of whorls on it (cf. below). Many, if not most of the species and hybrids can grow adventive plantlets on their flower stalks, either when emersed or only when submersed. There are only two _Echinodorus_ plants that I know the stalk of which seeks out the bottom of the tank _actively_ (hence, making them seem like behaving like runners). The first is so called _Echinodorus cordifolius 'ovalis'_ ("so called" because this is no proper name for the plant). The second is a new species described by Samuli Lehtonen that is not sold anywhere at this time. However, I think the amount of light might have an effect with other plants. The stalks of other swords either seek to reach out of the water or just float around maybe curving downwards (think of Amazon). The flower stalk has whorls and those whorls have visible flower buds. The flower buds don't turn into plantlets but there are buds for those in there, too, rather invisible if you ask me (but I don't have a 20/20 eyesight ).

Secondly, there are _Helanthiums_, these "runner-making swords", formerly known as _E. tenellus_, _E. bolivianus_, etc., and now, _H. tenellum_, _H. bolivianum_, respectively. Scientifically, their runners are not really runners but a modification of the flower stalk. The modified flower stalks can basically grow to any length given time. That's why they are called pseudostolons (i.e. "fake runners").

mmarnold is not totally wrong, however, when writing about the rhizome. All the swords have a rhizome. It's the brown stocky part from where the roots radiate out. It's not that easily to be seen with some swords (it can be short) but even those have it. The rhizome is the "stem" of the plant. That's why you sometimes get two or more crowns from the same plant. Some _Echinodorus_ have a horizontal rhizome that can get more than 10 cm (4'') long. Sometimes, some dormant buds wake up and you get a new plant on the same rhizome away from the main plant. This has happened with my 'Ozelot Green', for example.

The root tabs are good for fertilising swords but they should get enough with EI (they do uptake nutrients with leaves). A healthy, well growing plant wants to flower, usually. A pruning could induce flowering/ plantlet production as some of the energy is directed towards reproducion in stead of vegetative growth. A bit lower levels of nitrogen (in relation to phosphorus, especially) might help towards this goal as well (N tends to give the edge to the vegetative growth).

And lastly, patience.


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## monkeyruler90 (Apr 13, 2008)

i've heard that you can propagate them by cutting the bottom part in two and you'll have two plants.

my mom used to do this with a terrestrial plant that we had and she was able to get dozens of different plants over the years. 
is this true for aquatics?


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## Daniel*Swords (May 8, 2006)

It's true for some but not all.
You can divide a sword's rhizome (even when there is just one crown) if the rhizome is about 2'' long. Leave some for the original plant, clean the rest of the rhizome free of all the roots and leave it on the bottom (not in). In a couple of weeks, it will start sprouting new plants from it as the dormant buds wake up. When these in turn have enough roots, the rhizome should be divided further so that each little plant has its own piece (i.e. you get to separate the babies from the main rhizome).


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## DaveS (Mar 2, 2008)

Thanks for the great information Daniel.

Dave


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## Daniel*Swords (May 8, 2006)

Thanks, Dave, but I was just backing you up on what you said. :thumbsup:


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## mmarnold (Nov 16, 2008)

So the rizome makes the main plant bigger.And the flower stalk sends out the plantlets for reproduction?I have yet to see a flower on mine it just gets bigger around.


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## Daniel*Swords (May 8, 2006)

Well, the rhizome makes the main plant bigger - in the sense that it acts as a storage. The rhizome is a trailing stem of the plant. As the plant grows and the older leaves wither, only the rhizome stays behind in the substrate. The main plant is the tip of the rhizome so to say. There are a dormant bud in every 'nook' of the leaf and that's why a new plant can sprout from there once the main plant (the tip plant) is removed. The removal isn't always even necessary.

On the other hand, the flower stalk can make plantlets from its nodes. The stalk doesn't have to flower, i.e. the flower buds don't have to open which happens for example when the stalk is (kept) submersed, but it has to grow to a right size.


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## DaveS (Mar 2, 2008)

Take a look at the ozelot sword in this picture. You can see the long vertical growth with a nicely formed baby plant on the end. My Amazons send out very similar growths every few months or after a good feeding and pruning. The trick is to wait long enough for some roots to form before trimming the plants off. You can also keep some of the parent stalk to shove down in the substrate to keep the plant in place for awhile.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/3184387579/


Dave


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## mmarnold (Nov 16, 2008)

Here is a pic of my red rubin .If you look on the left their is new growth coming from the rizome which is right at the surface of the flourite.In the full tank shot the amazon is on the right.
http://i363.photobucket.com/albums/oo80/mmarnold71/plant005.jpg

http://i363.photobucket.com/albums/oo80/mmarnold71/dec08006.jpg


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

ZooTycoonMaster said:


> Yeah, like the ones that lauraleelbp has; that's sort of what I was talking about.
> 
> Those aren't considered runners?


Nope, runners stay low to the substrate. The chain swords are the (only?) swords that send out runners. My kleiner bar puts up stalks that bud and flower, and the new swords grow from the parts of the stalk that bloom.

It's really interesting seeing the difference between the flowers that are produced under water versus the ones that are produced if I let the stalk stay out of the water, too.


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## Daniel*Swords (May 8, 2006)

lauraleellbp said:


> It's really interesting seeing the difference between the flowers that are produced under water versus the ones that are produced if I let the stalk stay out of the water, too.


Have you had many flowers under water? I've had only about two swords do that. Those flowers wither really fast - and of course, there is no use for them as the plant can't propagate that way (no pollinator under water). 

Incidentally, I like the scent of the sword flowers. Not all of them have it. The strongest ones I've smelled are the 'Rosé' and the _uruguayensis_ complex.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

So wait...they are called stalks and NOT runners? Gee, I am embarrassed. :icon_redf I have been calling them runners, too. I guess I should have figured this out when my sword flowered this summer (it was white flower and yellow in the middle). Thanks for the correction, I will make sure I call it the right term from now on, I hate when I give wrong information. You should hear me trying to pronounce some of these plants, too.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Daniel*Swords said:


> Have you had many flowers under water? I've had only about two swords do that. Those flowers wither really fast - and of course, there is no use for them as the plant can't propagate that way (no pollinator under water).
> 
> Incidentally, I like the scent of the sword flowers. Not all of them have it. The strongest ones I've smelled are the 'Rosé' and the _uruguayensis_ complex.


I think I've had underwater flowers each time my kleiner bar has flowered? I've had it happen a few times that a "node" (is that the correct term?) ended up right at the surface of the water, and both terrestrial and submersed form flowers grew from the same node. Kleiner bar submersed flowers have green petals and I remember thinking that they lasted longer than the white flowers- but that likely is b/c the white flowers are so close underneath my light fixture.


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## Daniel*Swords (May 8, 2006)

lauraleellbp said:


> I think I've had underwater flowers each time my kleiner bar has flowered? I've had it happen a few times that a "node" (is that the correct term?) ended up right at the surface of the water, and both terrestrial and submersed form flowers grew from the same node. Kleiner bar submersed flowers have green petals and I remember thinking that they lasted longer than the white flowers- but that likely is b/c the white flowers are so close underneath my light fixture.


Yes, a node or a whorl, the latter is usually used in the botanical texts (that I've seen on the swords). 

From your description, it sounds more like the sepals than petals (smaller green leaves of the calyx). They would last longer, too. But if you say that you have green petals then I believe you.  :thumbsup: You wouldn't have a pic?

I have had 'Oriental' (and some others) open its flower under water... white petals and all. The flower didn't last for long, say 2-3 hours till it was all mushy.


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## rwong2k (Dec 24, 2004)

Have you tried changing the photo period? Mine sends out runners with plantlets when I lengthen the photoperiod to 12 hours instead of 8 hours.

Raymond


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