# Help!!!!ada amazonia!!!!



## adrianng1996 (Dec 1, 2009)

HELP!!!today i just bought a 3litre pack of ADA amazonia,i put it into my cycled 5.5g...and my father accidentally put the CRS/CBS inside..now they are swimming sideways,some falling down upsidedown and other things....i hurried and caught them all out and put them in a small critter keeper...now im panicking and i dont know what to do!!WHAT WRONG WITH MY WATER?! IS IT AMMONIA?! OR IS IT THE PH DROPPING TOO LOW?! how long do i have to wait to put the shrimp in?! HELP


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## Indignation (Mar 9, 2008)

More than likely, it's ammonia. Amazonia is infamous for ammonia spikes when you first use it... Don't know how much damage your shrimp might have taken, but I'd do daily water changes, add prime, and hope for the best.


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## adrianng1996 (Dec 1, 2009)

thx....but my shrimp are in a 3gallon with my RCS for now.....=( how do i stop ammonia from spiking?i need to do it ASAP


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Do daily 50% water changes.

Generally takes a month to cycle ADA substrate. It may go quicker if you have some established filter media or mulm you can bring over from another tank.

If you don't have ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate test kits you really need to get those so you'll know when it's safe to move the shrimp back over.


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## cjp999 (Nov 18, 2008)

Water changes will help reduce the ammonia spike, but you'll still get it, and it will likely be too much for any shrimp or fish to tolerate. It may also last longer due to the water changes.

If you plant the tank with fast growing plants and have enough CO2 and light, the plants might be able to keep the ammonia levels at 0.


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## FSM (Jan 13, 2009)

You have to wait for the biological filtration to catch up to the added ammonia.


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## adrianng1996 (Dec 1, 2009)

is there any other way that i could reduce the ammonia faster? my RCS tank is already too crowded....


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## fishscale (May 29, 2007)

Throw fast growing plants in it. Floaters are a good idea.


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## adrianng1996 (Dec 1, 2009)

like what? my tank doesnt have co2...


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## Indignation (Mar 9, 2008)

red root floater, riccia (left floating), salivinia natans, water lettuce, and especially duck weed. I used duck weed to help cycle my nano when i started using amazonia, and it definitely helped. I wouldn't normally recommend it, as it can be a pain to remove all of it. But in small tanks, it's not a big deal to clear it out after the cycle.


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## cjp999 (Nov 18, 2008)

Plants will only help you if they succeed in reducing the ammonia levels to 0. Otherwise you still won't be able to put any shrimp in it. I don't know for sure, but my instinct tells me that near term plants won't get ammonia levels to 0 without CO2. Depends on what your ammonia levels are now. They will probably be able to get levels to 0 near the tail end of the AS ammonia leaching.


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## adrianng1996 (Dec 1, 2009)

so i need co2 and floating plants? or will seachem prime help?


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## adrianng1996 (Dec 1, 2009)

oh,and what floating plant is suitable? i dont think any is....coz mine is a low light tank.....1.27watts per gallon


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## Indignation (Mar 9, 2008)

any of the plants i listed will work in low light. (they will grow slower, but will still grow). 
The whole point of adding floaters is they don't need CO2, as they pull it from the ambient air, and pull the nutrients from the water.


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## adrianng1996 (Dec 1, 2009)

oh...i didnt know riccia can live in low light with no co2....


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## adrianng1996 (Dec 1, 2009)

btw,if i cycle it with floating plants how long will it take till i can add the shrimps back in?
and how much water changes do i have to do?


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## bradac56 (Feb 18, 2008)

As many as it takes to get your tester to show no ammonia. It's not a science but when I'm feeling lazy (most of the time) it takes me about two weeks to fully cycle a brand new tank.

Lots of duckweed and hornwort will really speed up the process but then I have plant only grow-out tanks just for these kinds of problems so it depends on your specific setup. I would plan for a minimum of two weeks and a maximum of four but your testing solution will be the ultimate indicator.

I've done it in less than a week but that's with good sponges from other tanks and lots of fast growing plants.

- Brad


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Again, you need to get ammonia, nitrite and nitrate tests.

It won't be safe to move the shrimp over till the ammonia and nitrite are steady at 0ppm. No way of knowing this unless you start testing the water.

Plants can only help so much and it depends on how much ammonia your ADA is throwing off. It's not unusual for 6.0ppm or higher, and even stuffing a tank so thick with plants you can't see through it isn't going to bring that amount of ammonia down to 0. But every tank can be different- so you need to test to see what you're working with.


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## cjp999 (Nov 18, 2008)

The problem isn't just cycling. You also have to deal with the AS leaching large amounts of ammonia. It will likely be more ammonia than your filter can handle even when well cycled. So the question is can the plants make up the difference. I doubt it early on in low light and low CO2.


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## Tex Gal (Mar 28, 2008)

I'm amazed to read that anyone has cycled ADA Amazonia in a week. My hat's off to Bradac56. It usually leaches for 4-6 weeks. Stuff your tank with fast growing plants. They will help use the extra ammonia. Najas sp "Roraima" is the amazing for this, IMO. I love the stuff. It will work in low light with no CO2. Floaters are also great but they shade the plants in the tank and that usually results in those dying and giving off more ammonia. Make use you don't let that happen.

Do every other day water changes using prime. On off days dose prime as if you had done a water change. This works well, the bottle gives instructions for this too. No matter what, it will keep leaching ammonia until.... it's done. It's just that simple. I would find another alternative for my shrimp if I were you. Shrimp are just too sensitive to ammonia. I don't think it's gonna be a quick fix.


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## captain_bu (Oct 20, 2007)

I set up two aquasoil tanks in the last year or so. With both of them I did daily large water changes and both tanks read zero ammonia in about two weeks, neither of them took longer than 14 days. Both tanks had at least one established filter on them but only one tank had CO2 injection. These were both 50 gallon tanks that I used 3.5 nine liter bags of amazonia I in so there was a lot of aquasoil in each tank.


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## cjp999 (Nov 18, 2008)

For my 46g with 9 liters of AS and a cycled filter, it took about 3 weeks (no plants). I also didn't have a heater for the first two weeks, which probably slowed things down. It was winter, so average tank temp was about 68F.


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## Tex Gal (Mar 28, 2008)

When I did my 125g with 2 seasoned XP3s it took 4 weeks. I did water changes every other day and dosed Prime everyday. I had tons of plants in there. I had a heater. I'm not sure what makes the difference but I have read that some bags of ADA AS leach longer than others so maybe that's the difference.


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## dhavoc (May 4, 2006)

yeah i wait about 4 weeks as well. i use foxtail, salvinia and mini-water lettuce. i am lazy though and dont change the water much if at all until i am ready to stock, then i do a partial water change and test again to be sure. you can also try that azoo soil that GLA carries, tested the hell out of it on a new 20g setup and it read 0 ammonia from day one, with no water changes! i still havent stocked it though just to be sure (3 weeks and counting). just be patient, and do massive water changes to speed things along.


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## adrianng1996 (Dec 1, 2009)

wow its hard to find duckweed here.....and i need to do a water change evryday?...oo..i didnt know....its unchanged for two days...ill change it tomorow then....oh,and now my shrimps are in a 3g with my RCS...but they seem wierd....like they keep swimming all over the tank...especially swimming upwards to the surface....is something wrong? AGAIN? or is it the new shrimps i got today just checkin out the tank?


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

x's 2

I would say minimum in a new tank would be 8 weeks before adding sensitive shrimp. In a previously established tank maybe 6 weeks but thats still cutting it close. 



Tex Gal said:


> I'm amazed to read that anyone has cycled ADA Amazonia in a week. My hat's off to Bradac56. It usually leaches for 4-6 weeks. Stuff your tank with fast growing plants. They will help use the extra ammonia. Najas sp "Roraima" is the amazing for this, IMO. I love the stuff. It will work in low light with no CO2. Floaters are also great but they shade the plants in the tank and that usually results in those dying and giving off more ammonia. Make use you don't let that happen.
> 
> Do every other day water changes using prime. On off days dose prime as if you had done a water change. This works well, the bottle gives instructions for this too. No matter what, it will keep leaching ammonia until.... it's done. It's just that simple. I would find another alternative for my shrimp if I were you. Shrimp are just too sensitive to ammonia. I don't think it's gonna be a quick fix.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

I setup my 60-P with a well seeded 2217, planted heavy, and it still took 5 weeks to clear up the ammonia.


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## AshleyO (Jan 8, 2010)

You'll want to watch the pH, too. Amazonia will significantly lower your pH, which in turn will slow down bacteria growth. If you could put something in the water to increase pH it will help speed the cycle along. My tank with Amazonia was stuck in a cycle for two months with a pH of 5 until I added a bag of crushed coral to my filter, after that the pH increased to 7 and cycle was done in a week.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

AshleyO said:


> You'll want to watch the pH, too. Amazonia will significantly lower your pH, which in turn will slow down bacteria growth. If you could put something in the water to increase pH it will help speed the cycle along. My tank with Amazonia was stuck in a cycle for two months with a pH of 5 until I added a bag of crushed coral to my filter, after that the pH increased to 7 and cycle was done in a week.



I wouldn't really worry with doing this. I've never heard anything about low pH affecting a cycle. I think chances are it was coincidental that you put the crushed coral in just in time for the cycle to be complete.


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## AshleyO (Jan 8, 2010)

I was never really sure if this is what finally fixed the cycle, but I didn't think to add the coral until I read an article about soil bacteria going into hibernation when the pH got too low.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

AshleyO said:


> I was never really sure if this is what finally fixed the cycle, but I didn't think to add the coral until I read an article about soil bacteria going into hibernation when the pH got too low.


I think generally that's when pH drops below 4.


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## AshleyO (Jan 8, 2010)

I found it:

http://www.bioconlabs.com/nitribactfacts.html

This article says nitrifying bacteria stops working when the pH dips below 6.5.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

AshleyO said:


> I found it:
> 
> http://www.bioconlabs.com/nitribactfacts.html
> 
> This article says nitrifying bacteria stops working when the pH dips below 6.5.



Yeah, something's not right about that. There must be a context or something, because many people keep their aquariums at pH below 6.5 without ill effects to the nitrifying part of the nitrogen cycle, and many natural environments also have low pH.


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## AshleyO (Jan 8, 2010)

When the pH drops below 6.5 ammonia converts into ammonium, which is readily absorbed by plants so there is no need for it to break down into nitrite/nitrate. And ammonium is not toxic to fish like ammonia so there would be no effect on the fish.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

AshleyO said:


> When the pH drops below 6.5 ammonia converts into ammonium, which is readily absorbed by plants so there is no need for it to break down into nitrite/nitrate. And ammonium is not toxic to fish like ammonia so there would be no effect on the fish.


+1

A friend of mine was working on his masters thesis (aquatic biology) and was doing some studies on cycling, and forgot about the pH factor. Stalled his research for about a month!

It is partially for this reason that pH swings have a deserved reputation for killing fish- they can, given the right conditions!

This pH swing is also important when receiving shipped fish. Often in a bag that's been in the mail for several days, the ammonia has built up to the point that it has sent the pH down- which actually then converts the ammonia into ammonium and helps preserve the fish. But once the bag is exposed to fresh oxygen, the pH can suddenly rise again- causing the ammonia levels to spike exponentially, harming if not killing the fish. It's one reason that I always prepare a bucket with a little Prime and pour bagged fish (if mail order) directly into that bucket for acclimation- to detox any ammonia buildup ASAP.


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## adrianng1996 (Dec 1, 2009)

hey guys,is it possible to cycle a tank in 4 weeks with no water changes? i might be goin out ><


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Doing no water changes will probably make the cycle take longer.

There's the same possiblity of the ammonia building up to such a level that it crashes the pH below 6.0, which will in effect stop the cycle all together.

Doing 50% daily water changes helps keep the ammonia levels more in check. The whole idea in cycling a tank is trying to build an N-bacteria colony that will be "in proportion" to the level of stocking the tank will have. If you build a massive N-bacteria colony in proportion to the massive amounts of ammonia that ADA tends to throw off in the initial weeks, those N-bacteria will starve and go through a mass dieoff when those ammonia levels finally drop. A bacteria dieoff/decomposition will then trigger another ammonia spike... and you could end up in a different cycle to wait off.


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## Indignation (Mar 9, 2008)

I was setting up a 5.5 gallon today, and was thinking about this thread when I had a head-smack moment... 

Would there be any harm to adding a ton of carbon to her filter? 
It seems like a lot of the advice here is aimed towards creating a bacterial build-up to deal with the ammonia, assuming new-tank syndrome. But this is an established tank. And as lauralee pointed out, this could just trigger another smaller cycle once the AS quits leaching, extending the time until shrimp go home.
If we look at this from a perspective of just removing the excess ammonia, it seems to me that carbon/zeolite should work quickly and effectively. 

Am I off base here?


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## adrianng1996 (Dec 1, 2009)

hmm...that could work......oh yeah! what about moving some gravel from a cycled tank and some dirty stuff from the filter in another cycled tank,will it help? and now im doin 50% water changes once in 2 days


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Indignation said:


> I was setting up a 5.5 gallon today, and was thinking about this thread when I had a head-smack moment...
> 
> Would there be any harm to adding a ton of carbon to her filter?
> It seems like a lot of the advice here is aimed towards creating a bacterial build-up to deal with the ammonia, assuming new-tank syndrome. But this is an established tank. And as lauralee pointed out, this could just trigger another smaller cycle once the AS quits leaching, extending the time until shrimp go home.
> ...


Might help some, but I think it will get saturated quickly and changing carbon/zeolite several times a week could get pricey.


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## Indignation (Mar 9, 2008)

Agreed, but if it comes down to the potential cost of replacing CRS, the price/risk ratio might balance out in favor of trying it.


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## adrianng1996 (Dec 1, 2009)

what kind of carbon are we talkin about? those big pieces of carbon? or the ones sold in pet shops?


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## Indignation (Mar 9, 2008)

The ones sold in pet shops. Activated charcoal. 
Don't stick regular (big chunks) charcoal in your tank. Although I haven't personally tried it, I'm guessing that would be bad.:tongue:


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## neumahrs (Jan 12, 2010)

I don't think carbon absorbs ammonia. You'd be better off going straight zeolite or other ammonia absorbers instead.


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## adrianng1996 (Dec 1, 2009)

now im using a product called BIOZYME formula 100...it says that it removes ammonia,nitrite,nitrates,phosphates,sludge,oil,fats(lipids), and other biodegradable waste products...and it contains 9 types of microorganisms and 5 types of enzymes.....and it says its ecological beneficial living organisms


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## adrianng1996 (Dec 1, 2009)

Oh,and today i took out all the amazonia from the 5.5g to the 3g...and i just used plain old substrate....but when i tried to put a few shrimps in to test it out,2 cherry shrimps and low grade CRS...the cherry shrimp and 1 of the CRS is still the same as before when i added amazonia....but one of them is doing fine....why is it?


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## Indignation (Mar 9, 2008)

neumahrs said:


> I don't think carbon absorbs ammonia. You'd be better off going straight zeolite or other ammonia absorbers instead.


That is what I love about these forums, I learn something new every day. 
Thanks Neumahrs! read up on it, and activated carbon doesn't absorb ammonia well. It will absorb ammonium though, so if the pH is low enough it still might be viable. Zeolite would still be an option. 

I think it might be best to just keep up on the water changes, and wait it out at this point though.


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## adrianng1996 (Dec 1, 2009)

oh...now all the shrimps are having problem with the water...i changed the whole substrate...and added new water...why is it still like that?is the ammonia still stuck in the filter or something?


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

You keep changing everything. There is no chance for this system to stabilize. If you keep pulling substrates you are destroying what biological filter you have. 

Do water changes.


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## adrianng1996 (Dec 1, 2009)

yea i know that....but the 3g was wayyyyyyyy too overcrowded...


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