# Help! Pictures from camera with too much shadow and highlight.



## Nubster (Aug 9, 2011)




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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

What are those images for Nubster?


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## IWANNAGOFAST (Jan 14, 2008)

I think shooting a riparium is hard. When I entered mine into AGA, the water part was very very very very dark. What I had to do was put a few lights (either external flashes or just clip on lights or whatever) to illuminate the water portion more.


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## Nubster (Aug 9, 2011)

Just to show that a little post processing can help a lot. Might not be up to the editors standards still, but sometimes it just takes a little correction to fix the problems.

It's pretty hard to pull a perfect shot off the camera unless you are a pro and have the lights and stuff to do it. Not saying you aren't, have no idea your background. I was just offering a little help. If you or someone you know is good with post processing, shoot the rip in a RAW format and see what you can do/have done in photoshop or Lightroom.


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

IWANNAGOFAST said:


> I think shooting a riparium is hard. When I entered mine into AGA, the water part was very very very very dark. What I had to do was put a few lights (either external flashes or just clip on lights or whatever) to illuminate the water portion more.


It really can be difficult. If you can post-process one good strategy is to get two images at two different exposures, then doing a simple HDR process by knocking out the underwater portion of the more exposed shot and pasting it onto the darker one. 

But my problem right now is that the camera is just really accentuating the shadows and highlights a lot.


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## tetra73 (Aug 2, 2011)

hydrophyte said:


> It really can be difficult. If you can post-process one good strategy is to get two images at two different exposures, then doing a simple HDR process by knocking out the underwater portion of the more exposed shot and pasting it onto the darker one.
> 
> But my problem right now is that the camera is just really accentuating the shadows and highlights a lot.



HDR won't work because there are fish there. HDR would just create ghosting. 

Try to cover your light with a white table cloth. This will reduce the lighting and to even out the light. So that you are less likely to get an overexposed top and with an underexposed bottom. Turn down the Contrast to 0 or -1.


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## mscichlid (Jul 14, 2008)

Add more fill to the front below the water line.


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

tetra73 said:


> HDR won't work because there are fish there. HDR would just create ghosting.
> 
> Try to cover your light with a white table cloth. This will reduce the lighting and to even out the light. So that you are less likely to get an overexposed top and with an underexposed bottom. Turn down the Contrast to 0 or -1.


I thought that it was also considered HDR if you just splice two pictures together side-by-side, but maybe I am wrong for that definition.

I don't see a contrast setting anywhere on this camera. 

I think that a more diffuse light might make it worse. It is hard to take pictures of ripariums because the underwater area gets a lot less light. It doesn't look bad in real life! As it is the light is shining right down into the water area. I think that if I diffuse the light it will get even less.


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## Nubster (Aug 9, 2011)

HDR is taking several shot, each one with a different exposure and overlaying them. It gives an almost painting like feel to the photo with really deep saturated colors.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Devin,

I can take a look at your picture and see what I can do if you send me the RAW file. 

LMK bro,


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I didn't shoot them all with RAW--it takes up so much room--but I do have a few. Is there an easy way for me to send you such a large file? My email won't send them.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Upload it to http://megaupload.com/ and link it to me.


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## tetra73 (Aug 2, 2011)

hydrophyte said:


> I thought that it was also considered HDR if you just splice two pictures together side-by-side, but maybe I am wrong for that definition.
> 
> I don't see a contrast setting anywhere on this camera.
> 
> I think that a more diffuse light might make it worse. It is hard to take pictures of ripariums because the underwater area gets a lot less light. It doesn't look bad in real life! As it is the light is shining right down into the water area. I think that if I diffuse the light it will get even less.



When you take 2 exposures at 2 different time, you will capture the fish movements in two different time and places. When you superimposed the 2 shots, your fish would appear ghosting. HDR would only work with non-moving subjects. A more diffuse light will work because you are reducing the dynamic range of the scene. You just have to expose the scene with the bottom half of the tank and your top portion would not get overexposed. Of course, this means that you have to either increase your ISO and slow down the shutter speed more to get the proper exposure. If your camera has horrible ISO image quality, you will get tons of noise. What ISO you are already using? Keep the shutter speed around 1/100s. F 4 ro 5.6. Increase your ISO as high as the camera allows to get the proper exposure.


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## tetra73 (Aug 2, 2011)

hydrophyte said:


> I thought that it was also considered HDR if you just splice two pictures together side-by-side, but maybe I am wrong for that definition.
> 
> I don't see a contrast setting anywhere on this camera.
> 
> I think that a more diffuse light might make it worse. It is hard to take pictures of ripariums because the underwater area gets a lot less light. It doesn't look bad in real life! As it is the light is shining right down into the water area. I think that if I diffuse the light it will get even less.



Do you have photoshop? You can use layering to get an even exposure. Put the camera on the tripod. Expose one shot to the below the water line. Makes sure the shot is properly exposed. You should be able to see details on the back of the tank. Of course, everything above the water line you will get overexposure. Now, take another shot but exposing above the water line. The result here is that your bottom portion would be greatly underexposed while the top portion has the correct exposure. You use photoshop layer mask to mask the overexposure (above the water line) of your first shot. And to mask the underexposure (below the water line) of your second shot.


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

speedie408 said:


> Upload it to http://megaupload.com/ and link it to me.


I tried but was unable to install the version of Flash Player that it requires. Do you ahve any other ideas?


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## tetra73 (Aug 2, 2011)

How this? Unfortunately, anything below the water line is underexposed. Not much details to work with.


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Thanks! Again like I said my main problem is that the camera is just overaccentuating shadows and highlights. I can get better pictures if I can just get it to shoot like it did before. I would try to monkey with the RAW version files but I can never do that right.


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## tetra73 (Aug 2, 2011)

hydrophyte said:


> Thanks! Again like I said my main problem is that the camera is just overaccentuating shadows and highlights. I can get better pictures if I can just get it to shoot like it did before. I would try to monkey with the RAW version files but I can never do that right.



Is not your camera...is the scene. Look up Dynamic Range. The dynamic range of your tank and the light is too great. You can't probably expose the bottom part without having the top portion blowing out highlights. You either provide more even lighting to the tank or you use layer mask in photoshop. There are no monkeying around.  Is the nature of the beast.


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

No I know this already. For many of the pictures that I have posted here at TPT I have indeed either layered two images together or selected the underwater area then increased exposure. (I try to include a note when I do that.) What I am saying is that my camera is not shooting as well because it is over accentuating the shadows and highlights _everywhere_, including within the different areas.


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## TickleMyElmo (Aug 13, 2009)

I happen to have some experience editing riparium photos


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

This is like shooting snow. Have your camera adjust to the white wall and plants. Don't include the tank because it's the 'dark' element. Make note of the exposure & aperture. Now, set your camera to manual and change your setting to the readings of the wall.

Take your picture. There you have it.

You'll probably want to adjust a bit in photoshop etc...


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Devin,

Try mediafire.com for the upload. Worked for me and it's FREE! Check your PM bro.


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Hey thanks Nick!

I have a goal to produce at least one print magazine article every two months. I will need to streamline things to get there.


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

OK I'm taking another crack at this. Thanks for the help everybody! I need to send them the orginal, unaltered files, but I can also send an example picture to show a suggested layered image. 

I need to remember to get duplicate shots so I can post up a slightly different version here.


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

They were more happy with the last batch of pictures that I sent, and they also posted the link to the issue preview on FB...

http://www.coralmagazine-us.com/content/amazonas-next-issue-preview

Thanks again for the help everybody!

Another TPT member will have a picture or two in my article :icon_wink I got a little help with fish shots. I'm terrible at shooting fish. 




.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Can't wait to see it Devin!


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## TickleMyElmo (Aug 13, 2009)

Congrats hydrophyte!

Amazonas magazine contacted me too wanting to use some of my images of my riparium but I had to turn them down, the $25 offered was peanuts. I understand amateurs and people who don't make a living from photography would be thrilled just to be contacted and have their pictures published, but that lost its magic with me a long time ago plus I make $ from photography all the time, and when your equipments costs over $7k, its hard to swallow giving up image usage for that kind of money, if you know what I mean...

Sorry, side conversation over, back to the thread! lol...


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

OK that's a little bit unusual, but thanks!


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## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

Nubster said:


> HDR is taking several shot, each one with a different exposure and overlaying them. It gives an almost painting like feel to the photo with really deep saturated colors.


Good HDR is a bit more than that. The real idea is to capture detail in both the shadow and highlight areas and not only is it using different exposures it also requires good tone mapping of the images.

Hydrophyte, double processing this type of image works wonders. Here's a link to an article I wrote a while back:
http://www.friendlyphotozone.com/ar...les/362-double-processing-images-in-photoshop

The images there aren't mine however. The site admin was following the article to show himself how it would be done.


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## Nubster (Aug 9, 2011)

GraphicGr8s said:


> Good HDR is a bit more than that. The real idea is to capture detail in both the shadow and highlight areas and not only is it using different exposures it also requires good tone mapping of the images.
> 
> Hydrophyte, double processing this type of image works wonders. Here's a link to an article I wrote a while back:
> http://www.friendlyphotozone.com/ar...les/362-double-processing-images-in-photoshop
> ...


Yeah but that's the gist of it.


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

That looks like a really useful tutorial. Thanks for posting that!



GraphicGr8s said:


> Good HDR is a bit more than that. The real idea is to capture detail in both the shadow and highlight areas and not only is it using different exposures it also requires good tone mapping of the images.
> 
> Hydrophyte, double processing this type of image works wonders. Here's a link to an article I wrote a while back:
> http://www.friendlyphotozone.com/ar...les/362-double-processing-images-in-photoshop
> ...


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## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

This is part of what I do for a living to buy fish stuff. Well and food, housing, etc.

You're welcome. And it was harder to tell how to do it than it really is to do it.


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## Robert H (Apr 3, 2003)

> Amazonas magazine contacted me too wanting to use some of my images of my riparium but I had to turn them down, the $25 offered was peanuts.


If you think you are going to get more than that anywhere else you are mistaken. 25 is more than the going rate for any magazine or newspaper, or book for that matter Also you retain rights for the photo and can use it anywhere else you want.



> I have a goal to produce at least one print magazine article every two months. I will need to streamline things to get there.


I thought you weren't writing anymore. What will you be writing about?


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## tetra73 (Aug 2, 2011)

TickleMyElmo said:


> Congrats hydrophyte!
> 
> Amazonas magazine contacted me too wanting to use some of my images of my riparium but I had to turn them down, the $25 offered was peanuts. I understand amateurs and people who don't make a living from photography would be thrilled just to be contacted and have their pictures published, but that lost its magic with me a long time ago plus I make $ from photography all the time, and when your equipments costs over $7k, its hard to swallow giving up image usage for that kind of money, if you know what I mean...
> 
> Sorry, side conversation over, back to the thread! lol...


I think the pricing is depending on the magazine and the size of the readership. And you charge your fee accordingly. I am surprised they actually wanted to pay you!!!!  Did you mention that you work in the photography industry?


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## klaus07 (Nov 23, 2011)

I think you can accomplish what you want by using two electronic flashes, neither on the camera. It may take three to get rid of all annoying shadows. You would still have to play around with the placement and settings, but you would be able to use the full dynamic range of your lens.


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## klaus07 (Nov 23, 2011)

Here is a thought, go to alf and anitas killi page and look at their photographs and the setup they have for taking photos. Their photos are among the best of killies and fish tanks on the net.

If you can't work out the problems with the two riparian sections, you may have to concentrate on the two areas separately.


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