# Nano EI dosing solutions?



## jahmic (Jan 30, 2011)

I use mini-scoops: nip, dash, pinch, smidgen

Not sure if that's the exact order, but basically you end up with 1/8, 1/16, 1/32, and 1/64 tsp scoops with that set. You can get them at stores like bed bath beyond, or on the forums. I'm kicking myself for not remembering who I purchased them from on here, but they're definitely available.

I originally wanted to mix a stock solution, but find it's much easier to just grab a spoon and dry dose.


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## peguinpower (May 15, 2011)

Im seeing them on fleabay. Ill go get them. Thanks!


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## SuperWen (Mar 24, 2011)

just purchase digital scale with 0.01 accuracy.. and your problem solved


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## Couesfanatic (Sep 28, 2009)

jahmic or anyone else. Would you mind posting the amounts for EI? I know the sticky has them for 20-40 gallons but is there somewhere for 5 gallons?


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## Couesfanatic (Sep 28, 2009)

This is what I am thinking is correct:

pinch-KNO3-3 times a week
drop-KH2PO4-3 times a week
drop-trace-3 times a week

The sticky post also has gh booster and fe that I think I should skip. If I am doing this right, this should be the 20-40 gallon from the sticky divided by 4, making this for a 5 gallon tank. Am I thinking right here?


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## jahmic (Jan 30, 2011)

Pretty much what I did...just take the amounts from the sticky and divide by four. I've since tweaked my dosing regimen by lowering the KNO3 dosing due to my fish load, but yes...that would be a good starting point.


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## Couesfanatic (Sep 28, 2009)

Awesome, thanks. Sorry if I am stealing your thread penguin. Going along with the op, does anyone else have experience with this, or can comment on my calculations?


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## Noahma (Oct 18, 2009)

Couesfanatic said:


> jahmic or anyone else. Would you mind posting the amounts for EI? I know the sticky has them for 20-40 gallons but is there somewhere for 5 gallons?


divide the 20-40 version by 1/4 and you have your dosing quantity. :icon_lol:


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

You can simply add 10X the typical dose amount to say 100mls of water, then dose 10mls of that.

Split it into 2 solutions, one with traces, and some HCL or use RO/DI etc water, and then macros.

Nanos are not hard to do water changes etc, or trim etc, they are harder to keep good CO2 and also to gauge the light correctly.

Those are much larger issues than adding as tad too much or too little to the tank. Using ADA As is also fairly cheap for small tanks.


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## xmas_one (Feb 5, 2010)

I just use water from my big EI tank and do the wc's on the same day...


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## peguinpower (May 15, 2011)

Ok, I figured it out. Gonna use the mini measuring spoons I got from here to approximate minute amounts. Then, I'll be getting some mini pump sprayers from Sally's Beauty Supply and measuring how much each pump puts out vs. a measured mixing cup. A little math, some more math and maybe a little testing, then I'll have some table top spray bottles that will dose my mini's with a pump or two each. Drive by dosing 

Will be getting the stuff today. Thanks again!


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## Couesfanatic (Sep 28, 2009)

Let us know how it goes. I'm considering the same thing. Still deciding between that and just dry dosing.


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## peguinpower (May 15, 2011)

Couesfanatic said:


> Let us know how it goes. I'm considering the same thing. Still deciding between that and just dry dosing.


Will surely give an update. 

In my mind, the difference with dry dosing and making prepped mixes with a defined dosing solution is the convenience and time element. I would like to be able to fertilize as I walk out the door.


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## Couesfanatic (Sep 28, 2009)

I agree with you there. My issue is that I would not want to have to use a syringe. If I could find a bottle that dispenses the correct amount with each pump then it probably would be worth my time.


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## dhgyello04 (Jul 11, 2008)

My father-in-law is a Micro-biologist, so I asked him to bring home a pipette set. It has 3. One for 2ml broken down, second one is for 5ml broken down, and the third is for 10ml broken down. It makes liquid fertz really easy.

Don


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## Couesfanatic (Sep 28, 2009)

I just graduated with a bachelors in biology and a minor in chemistry. I think i'm done with pipettes for a while. Its not a bad idea, but I think it can be made more simple. A pump similar to the pfertz should be easy enough.


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## peguinpower (May 15, 2011)

I think I have the math down. This is purely theoretical. I am waiting on my dry ferts to arrive and will be doing tests on the actual concentrations derived from the formula below. 

I will be diluting the solution X% by the average variance in pump output. Because of the issue of solubility of material in a given amount of water and the small amount of liquid that is discharged by sprayers, I will be using pump bottles.

Given....

*TvS *= Total Volume of Solution to be mixed in ml
*Po *= Pump Output in ml
*Sd *= Single Weekly Dose volume in teaspoons
*TvD *= Total Volume of Material to be Dissolved in Solution in teaspoons

If we have a 12 oz (354.88 ml) pump bottle, that can be filled with 250 ml of fluid, which on average discharges 5 ml per pump, and we know that each pump should contain 1/32 teaspoons of KH2PO4 material, we can arrive at the problem below.

How much KH2PO4 do we need to dissolve in 250 ml of water to dose 1/32 teaspoons of material from each pump specified pump bottle that discharges 5 ml of liquid?

Note that 1 teaspoon is equivalent to 4.9289 ml. All computations will be in ml and then computed back to teaspoons.

Initially, if the pump puts out 5 ml each time, we simply divide 250 by 5….

* TvS / Po = Number of Doses per Batch*

Multiply the doses by the Quantity *Sd*, then you arrive at the TvD

Whereas.....

*Sd *= 1/32 teaspoon = .1544 ml weekly KH2PO4 dose
*TvS *= 250 ml of total solution to be mixed
*Po *= 5 ml of pump output
*TvD *= Amount of KH2PO4 to be dissolved in 250 ml solution

250 ml / 5 ml = 50 doses per batch

50 doses x 0.15402 ml = 7.701406 ml or 1.56 teaspoons of KH2PO4 to be dissolved per batch

Hence to find TvD given a specific pump bottle average output of say 3.5 ml, then 

*[ TvS / Po] Sd = TvD *

[250 ml / 3.5 ml] .1544 ml = 11.02 ml or 2.23 teaspoons

If you plug in the known variables into an MS Excel worksheet and create the formula, its easy enough to tweak the numbers to arrive at a desired concentration.

I am hopeful that I can find a pump doser that pumps reliably a within an acceptable margin of variability. 10-30% is acceptable given Barr's opinion that pinpoint accuracy is not essential. I will just reduce the *Sd *number by the percentage of variability for compensation.

If each pump discharges a volume that is too small to measure or too small for a reasonable amount of material to be dissolved in the solution, I can increase the number of pump actions to achieve the desired effect. Quantity* Po* will then represent 2 or 3 pump actions instead of one as needed.

Note that each 1 teaspoon is approximately 5 grams. I am not aware how accurate this is, but I will do actual weight and volume equalities as soon as I get my dry fert. For reference, 1 teaspoon of granulated sugar is about 4.2 grams.

Why is this important? Since we will be dissolving quantities of 5, 10 up to 20 teaspoons of material per batch of solution, we can utilize a $ 10 digital postal scale that measures in grams for measuring an amount of *TvD*.

For example, and this is purely theoretical until I make actual material weight volume measures, to make 250 mls of KH2PO4 that has 1/32 teaspoons of material per 5 ml, we need to dissolved 11.15 grams. That amount is easy enough to measure on a postal scale. When making more solution,load a bottle with 11 grams of material, add 250 ml of distilled water and VIOLA, there you have it!

NOTE: all computations above are purely for equations and not for actual formulas tp make solutions. After I receive my dry ferts in the mail, I will make exact solution formulas. The product of every formulas is depending on the weight and volume of material, the single weekly dose that a specific sized tank requires must be computed and used as quantity *Sd *, and the pump bottles should be tested for average discharge. The last number represents quantity *Po*. This should be pretty easy. A 20 pump sample I think will do. The desired outcome is that each pump bottle will require only one pump of solution per dose 

In ending, I hope this isn't a repeat of past posts. I just did this for myself and sharing it just in case somebody else may find it useful. I am not the sharpest tool in the shed, if you see any errors in my calculation or formula, do let me know.


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## peguinpower (May 15, 2011)

I just realized that since I converted teaspoons to ml, both of which are measures of volume, I don't have to weigh the material. So I went ahead and bought the pump bottles and computed the formulas. 

The pump bottles I got were 500 ml. After testing the pump 12 times, I got a consistent 3.75 ml per pump after the pump was primed. 

Using the above formula I want to make a KH2PO4 solution for a 5 gallon tank. The bottle is graduated for 500ml. 

500 ml/ 3.75 ml = 133 doses per batch. 

It is recommended that I put 1/32 teaspoons of KH2PO4 in a 10-20 gallon tank. I am dosing a 5 gallon tank, hence I will divide this number by 2 to 1/64th teaspoon. Converted to ml, that is .0770144 ml. 

0.0770144 per pump x 133 doses = 10.2685667 ml or 2.08 teaspoons of material to dissolve into the solution.

And that is that.


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## fishydaze (May 1, 2009)

Hello
I think it will be useful info for people, Penguin P.

Alternative Suggestion: U.S. Plastics has nice bottles (.5 to 8 ozs with built in cap) that give a pretty consistent amount of liquid per drop (45 to 50 microliters everytime, they claim; "Drop Dispensers"). I spent some time observing how many of my-sized drops=1 ml and worked out my calculations from there for 6 gallons.

After well over a year of use, I have had to replace two bottles that got blockage: But for $3.40 a piece, they are cheap and reliable accessory...

Fishydaze


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