# Fuzz Algae



## trenac (Feb 15, 2004)

I would bring down your N03 a little to more around 10ppm-12ppm. 

Raise your P04 to 1ppm-2ppm.

Increase C02 to between 20-30ppm.

Stop ferts for two weeks while reducing daily lighting to 8-9hours for two weeks.

Do water changes weekly at 30-35% each.

Keep better tabs on your water parameters.

Make sure your HOB filter water flow is turned down as low as possible to keep surface aggitation down to cut down on C02 loss.

Your KH is good just don't let it fall below 3. You can increase it if you like. But IMO you don't need to.

It is always a good idea to use root tabs, even a better idae if you have root feeders like Swords.

For the time being you could add more fast growing plants like Hornwort and Wisteria that you can float to help suck up nutrientsto starve out the algae.


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## theashman (Jul 3, 2004)

OK, thanks for the reply. 
Here's my latest...
pH - 7.0-6.8
KH - 3
NO3 - 10ppm
PO4 - 0ppm

These params are two days after the latest water change. I've added Hornwort/Wisteria floating around. I got a new pleco :fish:

I've been dosing only Excel and Fleets. The Fleets i've dosed at 2ml for the past two days. Not sure why I'm not seeing an increase in my PO4. I even tested a vial with 2ml of straight fleets added with a resultant reading of 0ppm PO4. It's a Red Sea PO4 test kit, could it be bad?

The Nitrates are down pretty quick after one water change, but I had just done one before the first post. So i'll definitely be more frequent with those.

My CO2 reactor in the tank is placed adjacent to the uptake on the HOB. Is that a good spot or might it be better at the other end of the tank?

I'm thinking of using something to raise the KH...I have some Seachem Reef Builder, Kalkwasser and some calcium chloride, but i'm afraid of blowing my pH when raising the alkalinity...would any of these things work?

Thanks again.


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## trenac (Feb 15, 2004)

When raising my KH I used baking soda. A teaspoon will increase 50L of water by 4 degrees. Also you can use Dolomite found at garden centers.


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## EricSilver (Feb 23, 2004)

I just spent an hour scrubbing the glass and doing my second 50% water change in 3 days, to get rid of my second outbreak, in the past three days, of what you seem to be describing. Mine, however, was whitish rather than green, but otherwise appeared to fit the description of beard algae. 



At 8:00 this morning it was not there; at 2:00 this afternoon there was lots of it on the glass, especially where the power head jets impact the rear of the tank. 



I blame a combination of 1) excess phosphates, specifically the ones in Aquarium Pharmaceuticals’ “Leaf Zone” liquid fertilizer, and 2) some new plants (Hornwort, crypt) I added about two days before the first outbreak. (Seems an interesting coincidence that this algae appeared immediately after adding these plants, especially since the LFS I got them from has a lot of beard algae growing, except theirs is dark green -- and actually rather nice looking). 



Whatever the case, I am a die-hard Seachem/Flourish user, but ran out last week and my LFS was out of stock, so I figured I’d give the Leaf Zone a try. Although I have actually overdosed with Flourish in the past and had no problems, other than lovely gold-tinted water, the phosphate-rich Leaf Zone seems to have triggered this crazy growth. I will probably be doing more frequent, and large, water changes until this is eradicated. 



On the plus side, my single Oto was delighted by this feast and was constantly munching on the glass and plants. I bought two more this past weekend to help him out, and they are all fat and happy. :icon_bigg 

There was some of this algae growth on the stem plants, but the otos scoured them clean – even the fine edges of the wisteria leaves (hygrophilia difformis) which I think is amazing. These fish are absolutely priceless. 

I’ll probably double their population to six today, after seeing how fast the algae grows. I assume that once this stuff is in the tank, it is there to stay, so I’ll try to keep it as invisible as possible.


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## theashman (Jul 3, 2004)

*Getting there*

My latest:
pH 6.5-6.6
PO4 - 0
NO3 - 10
GH - 6
KH - 3
CO2 - 23-28 (depending on a pH 6.5 or 6.6)

What I've done is one more water change yesterday of @ 30%. I've stopped dosing anything at the moment; I was dosing Excel but I've stopped that for the moment. I made up another bottle of yeast last night and put it on.
I removed the biowheel and capped the tubing where the spray bar comes out using a cap from some test tube I had, it fit perfectly. - perhaps I should start measuring NH3, nitrites?!

I moved the CO2 reactor to the other side of the tank opposite the HOB.

Still have moderate amount of Fuzz on my Hygro, Barclaya, and leaves of other stem plants. I've noticed these fuzzy hairs grow on areas of plants closer to the light. I have a bit of this fuzz too on the back of the glass about 3/4ths the way up and a bit as well on the uptake tube of the HOB. A few of the shorter plants such as the compact swords have some thicker dark-green algae on 'em but it doesn't seem to be spreading. As a matter of fact none of my algae seems to really be spreading at the moment. 
Still floating the hornwort, Wisteria, and a few stems of moneywort. 
Haven't dosed any PO4 b/c of not being sure if my test is accurate or not. 
Any comments or suggestions welcome.


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## corigan (Feb 22, 2004)

theashman said:


> My latest:
> pH 6.5-6.6
> PO4 - 0
> NO3 - 10
> ...


 Everything is looking pretty good except that PO4 reading. I would raise it up to .5-1 ppm with the NO3 level of 10. Once you get that PO4 up to 1 ppm or so and keep the NO3 up the algae will die off over time. All those other numbers and readings look great.

Also, that leaf zone seems to do nothing but cause problems, I would definately not use that anymore, and just wait for more flourish to come in. 

Matt


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## theashman (Jul 3, 2004)

Not sure what you mean by "leaf zone"?

Also, when I dose for PO4 I can use Fleets, but my PO4 test kit does not seem to be picking it up. I had estimated about 1ml of Fleets for 1ppm for 30 gals. based on the info here: http://users.ev1.net/~SPITUCH/Chemicals/chemicals.html

Plus, not sure what you meant by "waiting for more flourish to come in"
Thanks for the answers & comments.


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## corigan (Feb 22, 2004)

theashman said:


> Not sure what you mean by "leaf zone"?
> 
> Also, when I dose for PO4 I can use Fleets, but my PO4 test kit does not seem to be picking it up. I had estimated about 1ml of Fleets for 1ppm for 30 gals. based on the info here: http://users.ev1.net/~SPITUCH/Chemicals/chemicals.html
> 
> ...


 LOL, I got two posts combined. I thought the flourish and leaf zone was dealing with your problem, it was eric's problem where he commented on that. Either way, your PO4 level is still low. 

What brand of test kit are you using? Have you tried testing the kit in a bucket of water? I would look into the accuracy of that test kit. The plants could be sucking up the phosphates as quick as your are adding, or it could be your test kit. The test kit would be the first option to test for validity. I wouldn't add anymore phosphates to the aquarium till I made sure the kit was accurate.

Matt


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## theashman (Jul 3, 2004)

*My tank today*

As far as the algae is concerned, I still have about the same amount as the last post, so it's slowww in disappearing. Again, though, it mainly persists on plant leaves in the upper 3rd of the tank (closer to the light) :icon_idea 
It's on my Bacopa, Hygro, Ludwigia, barclaya? As before, the algae doesn't really seem to be spreading per se' but it eventually creeps onto new growth or new leaves. The new growth will be absent of the fuzz at first, but the fuzz eventually ends up on 'em. 

I haven't changed much, but the water. On 7/17 my parameters were:
pH-6.6
NO3 - 5ppm
KH - 2
NO2 - ,.3mg/l
PO4 - 0ppm
NH - 0
CO2 - @ 15ppm

Taking the biowheel off has not produced much change yet. I keep the tank level high to reduce agitation too. I didn't like the KH so I may have done a stupid thing adding Reefbuilder to increase the hardness. I dosed to bring it up by 2 degrees. Mixed and hooked up a fresh yeast bottle. The reactor's churning nicely, but I am having a hard time keeping the foam thingy from coming out the bottom of the gravel vac. I'm also getting some microbubbles coming out the bottom. 
Yesterday my pH was 7, KH was up to 7, making for a CO2 @21ppm. Everything seemed OK. Did another wc of @ 30-40%
I am going to get either a RedSea or Nutrafin PO4 test kit cause mine is not picking up phosphates from a test water with copious amounts of fleets enema added. So I'm guessing the thing's expired or something. 

I plan on doing a good trimming of algae choked leaves, then increasing the photoperiod and then I'll introduce some dosing if and when I can get a PO4 kit to read phosphates.

As an aside, I noticed after having let the tank go and then cleaning it up again...somewhere in there I had a noticable increase in my snail population, mostly of the MT variety. They don't seem to be hurting anything so far.


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## mpb (Jun 6, 2004)

theashman said:


> I am going to get either a RedSea or Nutrafin PO4 test kit cause mine is not picking up phosphates from a test water with copious amounts of fleets enema added. So I'm guessing the thing's expired or something.


You should test you test kit in a bucket. Plants store phosphate and they can use the phosphate in the water very quickly, mainly if they have been depleted of it.


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## pphx459 (Jun 25, 2004)

Weeeeee.... I got lots of hair algae everywhere! After 12 photoperiod hours, the tank turned from crystal clear to thick layers of algae growing on the acrylic. The reason behind this was because of the high levels of nitrites that existed because of new fish. The tank is still cycling and I plan on adding new plants to beat these algae. In the meantime, what should I do to slow down the growth? Feed the fish less? Reduce the photoperiod (kinda don't want to do this because the plants literally grew an inch)? I have already done a 25% water change and don't want to turn on the UV sterilizer yet since the bacteria colonies haven't been fully established.


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## djlen (Sep 14, 2003)

If what you folks are describing is BBA, and it sounds like it is you will not get rid of it by more dosing or less dosing.
Check to make sure it is because milder measures will get rid of most algae than the following. 
You have to eradicate it from the tank, via a complete cleaning, scrubbing and bleaching of plants, followed by jacking up the CO2 and using a balanced fertilization program to get the now clean plants growing well. 
Also, an SAE per/20 gals. will keep it gone.

Len


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## fishpoop (Feb 27, 2003)

phosphates! wow, stop putting that in the tank unless you have very high light and co2 I dont think adding that ever HELPS an alage problem. if the plants still grow ok with out adding any then you dont need to put any more in. rember P is the limiting nutrient in a freshwater ecosystem. AND those test kits for phosphate are all useless
trust me. (if you can detect it on the kit then you probably have to much in the water!) you need more co2 more growth and less fertz! dont give up, for some guys[like me] it takes months [about a year] to learn how to run your tank alage free.


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## putty (Nov 19, 2003)

That's a pretty bold statement there fishpoop. I have tested my phosphate (SeaChem) test kit with a couple of solutions made according to Chuck's, and used the reference solution to compare the color of the solution that matched the stock concentration. 

I for one think that kit works quite well.

What evidence do you have for this?


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## Keder (May 19, 2004)

theashman said:


> I've noticed these fuzzy hairs grow on areas of plants closer to the light. I have a bit of this fuzz too on the back of the glass about 3/4ths the way up and a bit as well on the uptake tube of the HOB.


I have the same problem. And when I cut the stem and replant it at the bottom of the tank, the algae clears up. I hate it!


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## Georgiadawgger (Apr 23, 2004)

putty said:


> That's a pretty bold statement there fishpoop. I have tested my phosphate (SeaChem) test kit with a couple of solutions made according to Chuck's, and used the reference solution to compare the color of the solution that matched the stock concentration.
> 
> I for one think that kit works quite well.
> 
> What evidence do you have for this?


Ditto, my seachem one works ok...but just got the Red Sea po4 kit and they both pretty much match up well. The only test kit I think is worthless is the Seachem iron kit (or any iron kit?). As far as not dosing po4 at all, that can lead to algae issues as well. Check out the Colin and Sears research paper on algae in planted tanks (google search). It pretty much recommends what everyone has mentioned so far...10:1 nitrate to phosphate ratio. Good luck!!


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## theashman (Jul 3, 2004)

QUOTE]I have the same problem. And when I cut the stem and replant it at the bottom of the tank, the algae clears up. I hate it![/QUOTE] 

It's been awhile since I've posted anything. two months or so ago, I tried to H2O2 dip all my plants. Big! mistake! I guess I just didn't do it right. Lost lots of different plants. I think I screwed up the concentration. I also did some major aquascaping to try to add the feel of more depth to the tank. Alot of the plants have come back slowly. But, I'm more in the habit of neglecting my tank. It's about two months since that time now...plants are holding there own. Sometimes I mix up a yeast batch, sometimes I let it go and dose Excel. I'm not dosing much of anything at the moment. The last couple of water changes I was dosing Epsom Salts and KCl. Each time though the next day I had a dead Oto. So I'm questioning that for now. My algae problems are much different nowadays. Not much of it in terms of having it on leaves closer to the light, but now I have this green, stringy stuff that grows mostly at the gravel line mixing in with my short swords. Some it actually clings to the gravel when I pick it out. I found a pretty good stand of it growing about mid-height in my rotala indica. It's easily enough picked out, though. My H20 has PO4 from the tap, sometimes I toss in my Phos-sorb for a day or so. Sometimes I toss in charcoal for a half a day if things are looking cloudy. 

Otherwise, I'm enjoying looking at my small stock of 3 mollies and and 2 guppies with their 4 or 5 babies that have managed to grow to a little more than a 1/4 inch. I still have my original 2 Pearl Gouramis that started my tank. :fish:
As always, plenty of snails to watch too.


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## aquaverde (Apr 15, 2003)

The idea in Conlin/Sears was to control algae through phosphate limitation. This is the origin of the PMDD formula. That theory has been disproven. Phosphates are necessary to plant growth and will drive nitrate uptake, and phosphate limitation will create algae, not cure it. Also correct that PO4 is stored by the plants. One thing to watch for after correcting a PO4-starved tank is to not bottom out the NO3.

On the tank in question, I’d get rid of the HOB if I were you, but you’re already getting more CO2 in the tank than I would have thought possible. Be sure to check your pH during the photoperiod to see what is happening when the plants are using. See what you have in the afternoon.

Bringing up the GH with reefbuilder was a good thing. You need Ca and Mg for the plants. I believe a KH of 4-5 would be safer with the CO2 levels you are shooting for.


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## theashman (Jul 3, 2004)

yeah, i think my co2 levels jumped with the combination of taking off the biowheel and sticking a co2 reactor in the tank to chop that stuff up. i got tired of the co2 reactor...(kinda big, clunky for a 30gal)...and put my co2 line into the uptake of my HOB. Since then, my levels have been much lower (somewhere around 7-15 tops). I thought at first I had sprung a leak in my co2, but don't think so now. 
I've wondered about that reefbuilder...it seemed to work fine. i'd have to figure out a dosing regimen. Cause isn't that stuff supposed to creep up the buffering to a stable 8.2 or so. I don't want to go there with my pH. 
Perhaps this is a question for the fish forum, but I wish I knew what it is that my Otos are sensitive to that one will die the day after a waterchange and adding Mg (epsom salt) and KCl (Nu-Salt)?


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## aquaverde (Apr 15, 2003)

I'm not familiar with the specific product, reefbuilder. I just came from the Seachem site, and it looks like to me this product is not indicated for planted tanks at all. I can't get a clear idea what it is made from, but since it stresses carbonates, I have to retract what I said about it being a benefit for your aquarium.

Buffers like this are not what you need. Forgive me if you know this already. General hardness (GH) should be at least 4, IMHO, so that the plants will have what they need of Ca and Mg. I will have to stick with this recommendation: on the cheap side, a liquid Calcium supplement or CaCO3, and Epsom salts for the Mg. Or use Equilibrium, which supplies that and some other things, to take care of GH.

Carbonate hardness (KH) can be raised using baking soda. Simple and cheap. I'd recommend a KH of 4 minimum while injecting CO2.

An HOB filter won't work as a CO2 reactor, as you have found out. If you have the bucks, I'd ditch the HOB and get a canister. If not, the Hagen ladder works pretty well as a diffuser, only runs about $12 (edit: or reinstitute your bulky reactor for free, it was working). But I would hate to see you nickel and dime yourself to death when a can will do it for you.

Lastly, avoid chloride salts if possible for dosing. If you are dosing KNO3, you probably don't need to add any more potassium. If you do, use K2SO4 (potassium sulfate).


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## theashman (Jul 3, 2004)

I had only used the Reefbuilder once, no die-offs happened, but I was too scared to use it again. I have been using baking soda about every other water change to maintain some hardness. I have KNO3 but have only had to use it once or twice according to the nitrate levels I've measured, so I thought that infrequency would mean I would need to dose additional K. I'll have to look for a source for this K2SO4.

As for the HOB to a canister, I've wanted to change to an XP1 for some time. But my HOB works, and I just haven't wanted to shell out the extra 60-70$.

Thanks for the input.
Ash


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## aquaverde (Apr 15, 2003)

Getcher cheep ferts here


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