# moogoo's 30 gal. sacred tree - SCRAPPED.. redo to come



## Wisteria_Weaver (Dec 29, 2007)

i am interested in your adventure. i hope you post pics as soon as you have them! good luck!


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## cleekdafish (Jun 13, 2007)

cool! I cant wait! may the force be with u!*corny*


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## moogoo (Dec 7, 2007)

Thanks for the encouragement! I'm really excited to get the design under way but i have to force myself to take my time. The light issue really sucked though. I'm going to order a regulator tonight and try to fine the pieces for an inline reactor this weekend. Anybody know how to figure out the diameter bend length reactor would be ok for my 30g? I was gonna follow rex's example but i have 1.5 inch pvc already. Can i use that?


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## waterfaller1 (Jul 5, 2006)

Sounds cool..can't wait to see!


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

moogoo said:


> Thanks for the encouragement! I'm really excited to get the design under way but i have to force myself to take my time. The light issue really sucked though. I'm going to order a regulator tonight and try to fine the pieces for an inline reactor this weekend. Anybody know how to figure out the diameter bend length reactor would be ok for my 30g? I was gonna follow rex's example but i have 1.5 inch pvc already. Can i use that?


I made mine with 2" PVC for a 29 gallon. If you look at my signature tank, there is a picture of the reactor. My reactor is based off of Rex's with a few minor modifications. One thing that I strongly suggest is to use the 90 degree hose barbs. It is much easier to work with and your hoses don't get kinked. I found mine at Ace Hardware. FYI, my reactor is working with an XP2 and it is roughly 14" to 16" long. It works perfectly for me. I get some gurgling from gas buildup inside the reactor after a a few hours, but I can't hear it unless I open up my cabinet. I am also pumping in a fair amount of CO2 at about 2 to 3 bubbles per second.

I don't see why 1.5" wouldn't work.


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## moogoo (Dec 7, 2007)

BiscuitSlayer said:


> I made mine with 2" PVC for a 29 gallon. If you look at my signature tank, there is a picture of the reactor. My reactor is based off of Rex's with a few minor modifications. One thing that I strongly suggest is to use the 90 degree hose barbs. It is much easier to work with and your hoses don't get kinked. I found mine at Ace Hardware. FYI, my reactor is working with an XP2 and it is roughly 14" to 16" long. It works perfectly for me. I get some gurgling from gas buildup inside the reactor after a a few hours, but I can't hear it unless I open up my cabinet. I am also pumping in a fair amount of CO2 at about 2 to 3 bubbles per second.
> 
> I don't see why 1.5" wouldn't work.


i'll take the 90 degree hose barbs into consideration. i went to lowes this evening near my parent's house while i'm visiting just to see their selection. i found all the parts i need for the reactor but didn't get them cause i wasn't sure if 1.5" would be ok. does it have to do with the volume? who knows. maybe something to post as it's own topic to get more attention. anyway, i like your mods to it cause i like the idea of being able to open it up to clean it out. did you accomplish that by using a threaded cap at the botton instead of a regular slip cap? if so, did you use teflon tape to make it water tight? 
@ all

sorry for the lack of pictures at the moment. i will be sure to load them up with full descriptions soon.


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

moogoo said:


> anyway, i like your mods to it cause i like the idea of being able to open it up to clean it out. did you accomplish that by using a threaded cap at the botton instead of a regular slip cap? if so, did you use teflon tape to make it water tight?
> @ all
> 
> sorry for the lack of pictures at the moment. i will be sure to load them up with full descriptions soon.


Yes and yes. I actually had a leak on the threaded cap with teflon tape. I wound up taking the cap off and putting more tape on it to seal up the leak. Worked fine. In hindsight though, I don't know if I would put the cap there or not. To me, it is just one more point of failure for a leak, and I don't think I'll be opening it up too often anyway. I just wanted the option since I wasn't sure how the reactor would work for my setup.


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## moogoo (Dec 7, 2007)

cool. thanks for the reply. after thinkin about it, if it does get clogged up with gunk i'll just toss it out and make a new one... i mean how long will it take to really get nasty inside anyway right? probably years.


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## neilfishguy (Dec 16, 2007)

moogoo said:


> home for my dwarf puffer and cherry shrimp.


erm...maybe home for dwarf puffer, torture chamber for cherry shrimp?

most DPs are going to tear shrimp to peices.


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

moogoo said:


> cool. thanks for the reply. after thinkin about it, if it does get clogged up with gunk i'll just toss it out and make a new one... i mean how long will it take to really get nasty inside anyway right? probably years.



I wouldn't toss it. I would just disconnect it from the hoses and pour some bleach in one of the barbs along with some water. Give it a good shaking and rinse it out. I would think that would be enough to clean it up.


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## moogoo (Dec 7, 2007)

neilfishguy said:


> erm...maybe home for dwarf puffer, torture chamber for cherry shrimp?
> 
> most DPs are going to tear shrimp to peices.


my DP ignores my shrimp. doesn't even nip at their feelers. my shrimp don't even hide during the day and are out and about in full force, eating away.

@biscuit

yea, that sounds like a better idea. haha.


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## moogoo (Dec 7, 2007)

Sorry for the lack of updates recently, but really haven't had much to update. Still waiting on replacement bulbs from big al's since the ones that came with my strip light were broken upon delivery.

I also realized tonight that I ordered the incorrect Hydor inline heater, so I have to return it and get the correct one. I guess it's not a big deal since I have to wait for the bulbs anyway. Also, still waiting on a regulator but I got my CO2 cylinder today. I have my DIY reactor ready to go as well. As of right now I still need:

- Rocks (will go looking for some tomorrow)
- CO2 Regulator
- Replacement CF Bulbs
- Plants
- Fish

Of course, the plants and fish will come last. Once I get the equipment set up and running, I'll go ahead and order the plants. I'm still undecided on the particular mixture of plants, but I know for sure that I will be doing HC and xmas moss on the "sacred tree". 

Below are some pictures of the empty tank as it sits right now and also a shot of my bare "sacred tree" (i.e., drift wood will bamboo chopstick pieces stuck into it). This is a total long shot, but I'm hoping the xmas moss will grow in and fill out the entire tree and make it look like a really nice underwater "bonsai" worthy of being called sacred. I want my scape to really give a feeling that you're coming into an opening and seeing a great tree in the distance on a cliff. 

































On a side note, I stopped by a local fish store tonight just to see what they had available. I found that they had rummy nose tetras, which is great cause I've only been able to find them online recently. They are $5/fish though, so I'll need to do some price comparisons. They had a decent rock selection there, but I found nothing too usable for what I am envisioning. In addition, I'd rather get the rock for free somewhere nearby. I did manage to pick up a decent piece of zebra rock and only $2/lb, which is way cheaper than aquaforest. Pretty happy about that. I'm not sure how I'm going to work it into my aquascape just yet, but it is pictured below. Thanks for checking up on my tank and I will be sure to update again soon. Hopefully on Monday after I've found the right rocks to set up an actual hardscape with substrate. 

















Quick question for anybody who knows. I have an extra bag of flourite and plan on using it under 2 bags of eco-complete. I've read that this is okay to do. My question is, do I still need to rinse the flourite first since it will be on the bottom and under all the eco-complete? My first inclination is "no" but I thought I'd ask and see what someone else's experiences are. Oh, and please excuse the crappy quality, underexposed photos. It was late and I was just snapping away with the on board speed light.


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

I would rinse it, and rinse it, and rinse it until it is rinsed somewhat clean. If you don't rinse it you will have very cloudy water and it will continue to cloud the tank every time you do something to the substrate.


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

You look to be going on the right track!

I wouldn't rinse the flourite because it will be topped off. Unless you plan on sturring up your substrate or something 

Keep the updates coming!

-Andrew


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## FrostyNYC (Nov 5, 2007)

First off, I love the driftwood and the rock both. Secondly, I tried doing a driftwood moss tree myself, and I just tore the whole tank down today out of 1. moss frustration and 2. overgrown everything else. 

The moss so close to my lightsource ended up attracting a lot of algae. It seemed like staghorn or hair algae, I couldnt be sure. When the moss acclimated began to grow quickly, the algae couldnt keep up, but I was left with quite a lot of furry algae embedded in the moss. 

I just say watch it very closely and make sure you keep on top of CO2 and ferts especially if you're going high light. My java moss was very slow growing initially (and still is compared to my other plants) and this seemed to be its downfall. (My tank also runs warm at 82 degrees and Im guessing java doesnt like that either) As far as your choice of Xmas moss, I think that's a good way to go. 

But if you can pull this off, you'll have an absolutely gorgeous tank. Keep us updated!


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## moogoo (Dec 7, 2007)

Well, this project is slow moving indeed. I've received all my replacement bulbs, so my light strip is ready to go. What I'm waiting for now is a replacement Hydor inline heater (I ordered the wrong size by accident) and a CO2 regulator (ordered, just waiting for it to come). 

So, I found some rocks the other weekend when I went hiking in the park. I found two types. I don't know what they exactly are but to make sure I could use them, I cleaned them with warm water and a brush, then boiled them for 2 hours. I've had them soaking in two separate buckets (for each respective rock type) and did a water test after 4 days of soaking to compare with regular tap water parameters. Unfortunately, my pH test is mid-range and only goes up to 7.6 so it doesn't do me any good! The good news is that the rocks don't seem to change my gh and kh. The one type of rocks that I really like look like they it may be rust, but i'm not sure. It doesn't seem to come off at all when I scrub it though. 

So, I'm getting a little impatient with setting up my tank. I've been so excited about it and with the equipment hangups and lack of adequate rocks, I've had to wait and wait. And now Spring semester has started, so time is even more scarce. Thus, my plan now is to do the hardscape with what I have and to use the rocks that I like. I'm gonna go for it! Below is a very, very, VERY quick sketch of the vision that I tried to describe in the first post. I've tried to label the plants that I know I want. The main "dense foliage" part in the back is still very up in the air. 










As you can see, this is a horrible sketch, but it's just to get an idea. Basically , HC will cover most of the foreground area and the part going up and around the tree's base. To the right, I want to have crystal riccia on both sides of the stream/river. At the very back on the right, I want to eventually grow out a huge, dense java fern. I may add some stem plants in this area as well. Depends what I get my hands on and how it looks. Right in front of the end of the stream/river, I'll place a rock with anubias nana attached to it to block the end. The tree foliage will be christmas moss, which I hope will grow out nice and full so I can trim it like a bonsai tree. Behind the tree, I will plant some dwarf hairgrass as background foliage. There will be a zebra rock in the left foreground half-buried with flame moss growing around it. As the note says, the left back portion will be the dense foliage and the kinds of plants are still up in the air. Although I'd like to have at least each of those listed. 

If you're curious about how I plan on doing the river, I have a DIY underwater river plan in the works. Whether it works or not is still up in the air. I'll do a picture log as I put it together, so if it does end up working, I can write up directions for others to use. But essentially I want to create the effect of an actual moving stream/river.

Anyway, comments on the mockup are appreciated. Suggestions for plants for the dense foliage or to replace what I've got in the mockup now are welcome. If you can think of something better that would give my vision more realism, I'd like that. Being a newbie, my plant knowledge is still very limited. Thanks! And please stay tuned for hardscape pics.


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## moogoo (Dec 7, 2007)

Strange, but I just noticed that my sketch isn't showing up as an image? 

Anyway. Updates. I stayed up last night even though I was dead tired from a long weekend and a long day at school (got home at 11:30pm). I basically set up the equipment, put together my DIY reactor, connected tubing and sorted out the electrical work (timers, power strips, etc). Everything looks good! I hooked up my pressurized CO2 and tested out my DIY bubble counter and it seems to be working! Although I'm not sure whether I should seal the cap or not. I need to test it for leaks. One thing I did notice is that my newly filled cylinder is only at about 800psi. Is that normal? 

Just for those who are curious. I created my DIY bubble counter out of a small plastic container that held toothpicks! It's clear plastic and the perfect size. It has a plastic snap on cap. I drilled two holes into the cap and fitted the CO2 tubing accordingly, filled with water and voila. Instant bubble counter. I plan on doing something similar to make a DIY drop checker too. Essentially my idea is to get a similar container, drill a hole large enough for a 1/2" acrylic or vinyl tube. Tape the tube with teflon tape to make it white for easy color identification. Then I will insert the tubing into the container through the drilled hole and attach a suction up to the side. Should work? We'll see I guess. I ordered a digital scale so when that comes I can create my own 4dkh solution.

Tonight I will be putting the finishing touches on my hardscape and begin planting. As of right now, my plant list is as follows:

Rotala indica
Lobelia Cardinalis
Anubias nana
HC
Ludwigia
Wisteria
Dwarf Hairgrass
Xmas moss
Flame Moss
Weeping Moss
Riccia

So tonight will be planting. I will start the lighting off at about 5 hrs with a lowlight to high light transition. I will give more equipment specs later. Pics will follow once I complete the planting stage. Thanks for reading.


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## moogoo (Dec 7, 2007)

*UPDATE (56K Warning)*

After a long, GRUELING night of planting (the HC took FOREVER), I pretty much finished the planting. This picture does it no justice as I think it looks tons better in person. This picture was snapped w/ my cell phone so sorry for the poor quality. I will post pictures from my SLR once I get home. Comments are welcome! Oh and the gap on the right next to the filter intake, I was thinking of putting java fern there, but I think I want to put something else, but don't know what? Suggestions are welcome!!!










btw. how do you edit the thread title? I need to put the 56K warnings in.


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## Matthew_Machine (Oct 12, 2003)

Nice moogoo, i was wondering what the sticks coming out of the wood would look like. I like where this is going.

To edit the thread title, just click "edit" on your first post in this thread. You'll be able to change it there.


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## moogoo (Dec 7, 2007)

Thanks Matthew. I wasn't too sure how it was gonna work out either, but it seems to look ok. Now it's just up to the moss to fill in. Hopefully it will! I used the thread I wrapped the moss with to create smaller "branches" between the main branches for the moss to grow onto and attach. Hopefully that works out the way I hope. 

My main excitement is to see the HC, hairgrass and riccia grow in. I also need more stems! Gonna have to get some soon, but still deciding which ones I want. Right now the only stems planted are ludwigia, wisteria and rotala indica. 

I'll try to do a more detailed post once I get home with high quality pictures from my SLR.


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## skabooya (Apr 15, 2005)

ooo that will be interesting to see it grow in. I cant wait.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Looks cool. I like the little pathway.

You mentioned possible Hygro and I was going to suggest 'Porto Velho' since it stays lower than the others and you might not want giant hygro stealing thunder from the tree.


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## moogoo (Dec 7, 2007)

it's not clear from the crappy quality photo, but the "path" is actually my attempt at a DIY "flowing" river. for the most part it sort of works, although I'm not sure whether I like the look yet. I may end up taking it out and doing a regular white sand "river". Photos to be posted when i get home tonight will give a clearer impression of what's in the tank. so stay tuned! 

I was actually thinking of getting some sunset hygro. maybe i should do more research on how they grow. I'll look into your suggestion jaidexl


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

thanks should look good when everything grows in. however its not really my thing. i like more when the scene is an undewater one, not inspired from a park or forest. your aquascape reminds me a lot of this one: http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/images/adana10.jpg

its an ada winner ranked 10th place worldwide.


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## fish dork (Jan 13, 2008)

This tank looks good! Can't wait to see it when it fills in!


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## moogoo (Dec 7, 2007)

couldn't see the link marko due to the proxy. but I assume you're linking to the tree scene that won 1st place in the AGA competition last year. I did get some inspiration from that, but mainly decided with the tree scene because it fit the piece of driftwood i received. 

I like most types of scenes. I really like iwagumi style and underwater scenes. I also like scenes that test the boundaries of aquascaping. i'm not a big fan of jungles though. Seems too messy to me. My main concern is a lot of room for a good sized school of fish to swim around. I intend on getting two schools (cardinals and rummies).. but not until the plants fill in quite a bit

@ fish dork

Yea. I really like rummies. I saw them on foster/smith site and then at a LFS and i really like them. Also with people's comments that they are tight schoolers makes them even more desirable imo. I look forward to getting fish but i'm gonna force myself to wait.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

yeah i noticed that i forgot to remove the proxy, but i did now. nope im talking about 10th place, first looks like mangrove roots in a river. 

you may want to rethink cardinals, i have found that they mainly just hover in my tanks. i recomend some white clouds instead, or gold clouds if you can find them. they are always moving and they constantly display to each other, challenging one another.


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## moogoo (Dec 7, 2007)

i don't mind the hovering so much. I like the colors of the cardinals. They're very simple yet impressive. for 30 gal, I can get a decent sized school and their hovering won't make me feel too bad that they don't have a lot of room to swim around. ha!


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

lol yeah, i had them in a 6 gal


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## moogoo (Dec 7, 2007)

Ok. Now that I'm finally home. I decided to post some higher quality pictures of my tank. It's not much to look at now, but hopefully once the plants fill in more, it'll look more respectable. Not sure why this is happening, but I came home tonight to find that the water was kind of milky, as if there was a lot of dust. Bacteria bloom? Dust? not sure. But if it doesn't clear up by tomorrow night I'll do a water change and keep it up every 2-3 days until it does. Maybe invest in some purigen. 

This first picture is after I finished the hardscape. The "path" looking thing is my attempt at a DIY "flowing" river. Essentially its a piece of clear tubing sliced in half and laid into the gravel. At the far right end, I have a small airstone, which sends bubbles up the tube to the back of the tank. On top of it, I sprinkled some natural gravel like "river rocks" and white sand for "mini rapids". I'm not sure how I like the look. I think I want to see it after the plants have grown in more. Comments are welcome though.









This second picture is after I completed planting everything and filled with water. Excuse the excess of micro bubbles due to the filling of water. I was too lazy to clean it off the glass before I took the picture. As you can see, I have a zebra rock buried on the left side under a slope. HC covers most of the left/front and middle on both sides of the "river." The HC goes all the way down towards the rock/cliff where it meets the plastic mesh. In the plastic mesh is riccia. I have to fix the one mesh so that it stays down better. Dwarf hairgrass surrounds the tree for the most part. Lobelia cardinalis along the "river" and cliff. Wisteria, ludwigia and rotala indica is the "foliage" in the back for now. I might rearrange a bit later. 










So that's it. I'll have to fix the riccia mesh and maybe bits and pieces here and there, but for the most part it is done. I also want to plant some more stems in the gap next to the filter intake. Not sure on what to choose yet. Here are the specs of my setup.

Standard 30 Gal.
Current Dual CF Light Strip (6700/10K (running for 6 hrs a day right now) and 10k/actinic (not currently in use))
Hydor inline heater
Enheim 2213 Canister Filter
Pressurized CO2 (5# tank with Rex's reg and fabco valve)
DIY Inline CO2 reactor
Hydor ario 3 (not in use right now cause there are no fish)
Dry Ferts (Nitrate, Phosph, K) and flourish comprehensive

I think that's it. So January 24 is my official tank start date. We'll see how it goes. Comments are welcome! Suggestions for stems, critiques and criticisms are also welcome. I hope to have a tank worthy of competition some day (probably not this tank though). Thanks for looking.


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## nickboudin (Jan 9, 2008)

Looks great!


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## froghair (Jan 5, 2008)

Moogoo, how about an update with pics? :icon_bigg


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## moogoo (Dec 7, 2007)

Sorry. No pics to update with. I was having some problems with leaves dying off for some reason or another, but I think it had something to do with my CO2 or ferts. So I've been doing a lot of water changes, dosing my ferts properly and double checking my CO2 and the past few days, the plants seem to be doing a lot better. 

The riccia is pearling like crazy and so is everything else, even my HC, which is growing well now. My moss on the "tree" was starting to die off but has since started to bounce back and I see lot of brand new green buds all over the place. I've been testing the water and everything looks pretty good, so I'm pretty happy. 

Once there's been a significant amount of growth (i'd say after a month from now), I'll post pictures. But right now, there's not much to show. Thanks for reading though and I hope you check back again soon.


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## froghair (Jan 5, 2008)

:bounce: Has it been a month yet? Love your tank and journal!:thumbsup:


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## moogoo (Dec 7, 2007)

Thank you! I hope it turns out the way that I envisioned it. I am a bit unhappy with some aspects of it, but I will tweak it here and there I'm sure as the plants grow in so that everything looks like my vision. 

Thank you for your support and I promise I will post picture updates once there's something to show.


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## moogoo (Dec 7, 2007)

Quick update. Sorry no pics. I would be happy to show pics, but I'm a bit ashamed of what my tank has become! 

I've been running into a few problems, where I have no clue what is going on. My cherry shrimp that I introduced, are extremely shy or have died without me knowing. I've found one body so far but I've also seen one or two running around too. Not sure what to think of that. 

In addition to the shrimp mystery, I'm having some algae problems as well. Mostly this brown hair/thread algae that is extremely fragile. It took a liking to my riccia for awhile, but now it's begun to attack my moss on the "tree". I need to do some manual removal. I also have a greenish algae as well, which the shrimp should be feasting on, but as I said, they're hiding or dying. Hopefully just hiding. 

So at this point, to resolve the problem, I've added more plants to suck more more nutrients in the hope to outcompete and kill the algae. I've also lowered my photo period from 8 hrs to 6 hrs with full wattage for 3 hrs and only the 10k/actinic for the other periods. CO2 is going at about 2-3bps. Water parameters are good as far as I can tell, but my test kits might be off. Who knows. 

I had similar problems with my 10 gal, but with the addition of more plants, all the algae died off. I'm hoping the same will happen here. I guess there just isn't a balance yet. 

On a lighter note, the HC is growing very well and spreading. The riccia is pearling beautifully and the hairgrass is spreading. Stems are growing, but for some reason they don't look as healthy as they do in my 10 gal? Not sure why. 

Anyway, this is not the best of updates, but it is an update. Hopefully, SOON, i can give a more positive update with pictures. Thanks to all who are keeping track of this thread.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

I would 86 the actinic completely if you're having algae issues, they're designed to assist the growth of certain algae within their coral hosts and could be contributing to your issues. 

Good luck!


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

thread/hair algae is from excess iron, cut your iron fertz.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

oh and you could also add a SAE for a while (or permananently) as they LOVE hair algae, and the young ones have incredible appetites.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

In my experience with the fragile, brownish, mystery thread algae, the one that breaks into millions of pieces when touched, it was happening during a time of deficiency in my lower maintenance (somewhat neglected) tank, Fe included. In addition to adding the full list of ferts, I also increased flow a bit to kill some dead spots (where that algae was more dense), did a water change, vac'd up the heavy waste and crud in the dead corners, and recharged yeast reactors. It was gone the next day never to be seen again. There's an entire thread about it here, somewhere. Lots of folks have dealt with it.

Adding pants is always smart, and the "tank is just new and not balanced yet" mentality is exactly the stance I take. It's fun to leave algae alone and watch it disappear on it's own. Granted, not all of them leave that easily, but continuing a solid regime will, in many situations, catch up with the issue and overtake it, rather than making drastic decisions to try and destroy things immediately which can compound the issue or create more if it turns out to be the wrong move.


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## moogoo (Dec 7, 2007)

Yea. That is my stance. I have a 50/50 actinic bulb on my 10 gallon and I never had this type of algae in there. But i did have an algae infestation period which happened around the same time as this one is occurring. After adding a bunch of plants, it gradually went away. Now my 10 gallon is crystal clear with extremely minimal algae (in the form of spot algae on the glass) and I usually neglect it, except for throwing in snails for my puffer.

I hope the same will happen with this tank. For now, I've shortened the photo period and did some water tests again. It seems my nitrates are a bit high, so I intend to cut back on dosing nitrates to see if that resolves the issue. I intend on putting a powerhead in there to get some more water movement, although from the way the plants move, it seems like i have movement through the whole tank. 

I will take it slow, making subtle changes until I get it right. Only time will tell, and hopefully it will only take a few subtle changes to click things into place. Until then... let the battle continue. I'll have pic updates once the war is won! Thanks all.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

moogoo said:


> I intend on putting a powerhead in there to get some more water movement, although from the way the plants move, it seems like i have movement through the whole tank.


If you'd have seen mine... I have two tiny HOBs on that tank. When they get clogged it's like a slow drizzle on either side of the tank and major dead spots in the corners. You'd know if you had the problem I was having with flow, sounds like you're ok. I think the algae was mainly dense in the dead spots because it blows apart so easily everywhere else in the tank.


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## fishscale (May 29, 2007)

@[email protected] said:


> thread/hair algae is from excess iron, cut your iron fertz.


This is not necessarily the case. The cause of thread algae is difficult to address. It is usually the result of one or more of your nutrients bottoming out, including, possibly, CO2.


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## LondonDragon (Mar 15, 2007)

Looks good, have to wait until it develops, mate of mine from Portugal did something similar, he got second place with it at the AGA contest! You should look at his. Keep up the good work


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## moogoo (Dec 7, 2007)

LondonDragon said:


> Looks good, have to wait until it develops, mate of mine from Portugal did something similar, he got second place with it at the AGA contest! You should look at his. Keep up the good work


That was your mate? Awesome! He did an incredible job! I used his work as an inspiration for mine since I received my piece of driftwood that reminded me so much of an aged, old tree trunk. 

If my tank turns out a quarter as nice as his, I will be very happy.


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## LondonDragon (Mar 15, 2007)

moogoo said:


> That was your mate? Awesome! He did an incredible job! I used his work as an inspiration for mine since I received my piece of driftwood that reminded me so much of an aged, old tree trunk.
> 
> If my tank turns out a quarter as nice as his, I will be very happy.


Just have a look at his journal, its all in portuguese, but you can see how he changed the layout from the photos and get an idea of time scales that you will be looking at 

http://www.aquariofilia.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=45752

Good luck with the project.


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## moogoo (Dec 7, 2007)

That's too cool. I would love to tear down my tank and redo the scape, but I think my GF would rip my head off. She thinks I spend too much time on my fish tanks as it is! I tell her it is a labor of love... but she doesn't understand. 

I'm sure i'm not the only one with these problems.


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## LondonDragon (Mar 15, 2007)

moogoo said:


> That's too cool. I would love to tear down my tank and redo the scape, but I think my GF would rip my head off. She thinks I spend too much time on my fish tanks as it is! I tell her it is a labor of love... but she doesn't understand.
> I'm sure i'm not the only one with these problems.


Yes I know the feeling, I did have 4 tanks at one stage! I am down to the last one! women tst tst  
But at least she is getting convinced that the 500 litre project in the living room is sounding like a good idea


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

LondonDragon said:


> Just have a look at his journal, its all in portuguese, but you can see how he changed the layout from the photos and get an idea of time scales that you will be looking at
> 
> http://www.aquariofilia.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=45752
> 
> Good luck with the project.


Wow, that journal makes me feel a lot better about myself. Looking at that contest pic the fist time I'd have thought he had it all figured out from the start. It's always nice to see that scapes can make such a big turn around if you keep working at them.


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

any updated pictures?


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## moogoo (Dec 7, 2007)

Sorry, still no picture updates because I'm still in the process of battling algae and balancing the tank. I am winning the battle though and the really bad nuisance algae is pretty much gone as far as I can tell. All I have no are little specs of really green algae which are starting to form little balls? They look like a bunch of marimo balls. It's some strange stuff. 

Once that stuff is gone, i'll be algae free. Things are growing well though. My Riccia needs a trim. The HC is spreading but it will still be another month I think before It covers the area and my dwarf hairgrass is spreading nicely.

The moss on my tree, I'm very unhappy with it. I'm gonna try to rip it off and reattach it as it's having trouble attaching to the chopsticks for some reason. Anyway, I'll have picture updates within the next few weeks. Please be patient!


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

i think that you didnt put enough chopsticks. the moss will attach to them, but only a little past the attached part has nice growth, about an inch away it takes on the "fuzzy and unorderly tangled ball of moss floating in the water column" form

try putting double what you have.


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

The chopsticks might be too smooth. If you rough them up a bit and give it something to grab onto it will take. 

Enjoyed the thread, now beat that algae and lets see an update... :smile:


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## moogoo (Dec 7, 2007)

I don't think there is a lack of chopsticks. I don't see how adding more more chopsticks would make the moss attach more. 

@Buck
I think you're right about the chopsticks being too smooth. I plan on redoing the moss during the next water change (tomorrow). I will score the chopsticks up with a knife to give some grooves for the moss to attach. I was also contemplating on taking slim strips of plastic mesh and using that to attach the moss to the chopsticks giving a true anchor to the moss, whether it attaches to the chopsticks or not. 

I'm trying my best to beat this algae. This algae I have is strange though. Like I described in my earlier post, it looks like tiny little marimo balls forming. Not sure what kind of algae it is. I'm getting a bit of algae on my sand too. Gonna just try to vac it up next water change.

I added a powerhead to the tank to increase water circulation, so hopefully that will help in fighting the algae. Despite the algae, there is no algae on the plants anymore, just substrate and rocks, so the plants continue to grow well. HC is growing slow but steady. 

I also just moved my puffer from his 10g home to this tank to get rid of all the snails that had begun to infest the tank. True snails would help fight the algae somewhat, but I got tired of seeing all of them everywhere I looked. To me at least, they're not all that aesthetically pleasing.

I'll try to take a picture after my next water change to show the growth of the HC and dwarf hairgrass. 

Again, thanks to all who are following my journal. I appreciate the support!


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## moogoo (Dec 7, 2007)

Been some time since my last update. My battle with rhizoclonium was at a loss. Even with increased flow, higher CO2 and consistent ferts, the rhizo did not go away. I would manually remove it as best as I could, but it would only return with a vengeance the next week. As a loss, I opted to rip out every piece of HC (which was a lot) that had any rhizo on it. For some reason, only the HC was effected. I did this during my last water change on sunday.

It has been 4 days since and there is absolutely no sign of the rhizo returning. Even with a careful observation of the tank, I see some bits of rhizo that escaped my vacuuming but it has not spread in the past 4 days. I'd say that's a win. I will suck up any residual that I can find the next water change. The remaining, uneffected HC that was left in the tank is still rhizo free and is starting to spread to the areas where I ripped out HC. Hopefully with some time it will recover the area.

The xmas moss on my sacred tree after my moss redo has finally acclimated and is growing fiercely. I hope to have enough growth to cover the mesh by mid-April. But xmas moss is notoriously a slow grower, so we'll see. 

My other plants are growing really well. Rotala indica is propagating on its own like a weed. I have been taking trimmings and spreading it throughout the back to increase the background eye candy. The right side of the tank is still fairly empty and for some reason my java fern is not growing all that fast. It seemed to grow faster in my 10 gal tank. Anubias is growing new leaves, which is great. I also decided to rip up my riccia and keep it as a floating plant. I decided it would be best as it was getting to be a pain to maintain and with my intent on keeping amazon fish (cardinals and/or rummies), the shade will help them feel more at ease. 

So, in summary, it seems my fight with the rhizo is at an end. There seems to be no sign of algae in my tank anymore except for very, very minimal bits here and there of green algae that the shrimps eat. I think I am well on my way to having a beautiful tank!

I will take some pics tonight and post here. 

Thanks for looking.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Looking foward to pics...


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## moogoo (Dec 7, 2007)

As promised, here are some shots of how the tank looks right now. As you can see, there's a huge open area where I ripped out all the HC. The moss tree has not filled in since I redid it a few weeks ago, but it is definitely growing and should fill in soon I hope! Unfortunately, xmas moss is such a slow grower.

All the other plants have been growing strong as you can see the huge difference between now and how they looked when I first planted them. Thanks for looking. Comments are welcome.

Full Tank









Left Angle


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## jaysen (Mar 12, 2008)

very nice idea. your plants grew in quite well!


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## moogoo (Dec 7, 2007)

jaysen said:


> very nice idea. your plants grew in quite well!


Thanks! I'm very happy with how things are turning out. I was getting quite frustrated at first, but things are turning around for me and it's all downhill from here. I just need to keep on my water change/trimming/ferts regimen and I should be seeing even better things happening in the future.

Thanks for looking!


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

its growing in nicely, but your main thing, the tree, still isnt doing good

have you considered using lace java ferns instead of moss?


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## moogoo (Dec 7, 2007)

@[email protected] said:


> its growing in nicely, but your main thing, the tree, still isnt doing good
> 
> have you considered using lace java ferns instead of moss?


Thanks marko

The tree isn't doing that well considering the just under 2 months of growth because I redid the moss about 2 weeks ago. The original moss wasn't growing well and it wasn't attaching at all for some reason. So, I ripped it all off and redid it with mesh to help it attach. It took about a week for the new moss to acclimate and it's now growing. Hopefully, in a month or so, there will be significant growth with the tree so it will look more like a tree, and less like a science experiment. 

I haven't looked into lace java ferns, but I would really like to accomplish this using moss. If after another month or so and the tree doesn't look like it's filling in as much as I want it to, I will consider other options.


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## moogoo (Dec 7, 2007)

Quick Update - Photos to come.

I've finally stocked my tank. I ordered a whole bunch of boraras brigittae and boraras micros from FranksAquarium.com (Excellent service, stock, communication, shipment at reasonable prices! A+++ Thumbs up all the way). After about 90 mins of drip acclimation, I introduced them into the tank and they've been happy ever since. They've started to color up and have really brought a lot of action and life to the tank. 

I'm doing a water change tonight and trimming. I am gonna do some rearranging as well. The moss on the "tree" has started to take hold and is really growing well except for the fact that it's slow growing. I guess that's what I get for choosing christmas moss. The "branches" are filling in a lot quicker than the main trunk, but hopefully it will catch up soon too. 

The plan is to move all the rotala indica from behind the tree over to the right side of the tank, to cover the filter intake and also to fill it in more. I want empty the space behind the tree to give it more contrast against the black background. I'll probably give the hairgrass a trim as well and also fight it back to where I want it to stay. For now, I'm just waiting for the HC to fill in the big space that I created when pulling out a lot of it to get rid of the rhizoclonium. Seems to be growing though, just slow. 

In any case, that's the update. I'll take photos tonight after the water change and trim/rearrangement if the water's not too cloudy. If so, I'll wait to take them tomorrow. Thanks.


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## moogoo (Dec 7, 2007)

Been a long time since I've updated this thing and that reason being I had gotten swamped with school and work and neglected this poor tank for over almost 2 months, with nothing but feeding the fish and topping it off. 

Needless to say, the plants went crazy and when I had the time to finally trim them all back, it was a huge mess. What was left was very ugly and soon after, the algae started to take over. I've been fighting it for a few months now and I have not won. If anything, I would say it hasn't gotten any better or worse, but has stayed the same. It's difficult and frustrating because I don't have a huge amount of time to be fighting algae at the moment, so for now i'm just doing my best to keep the fish alive and well.

Once I have a decent amount of time, I'm thinking of scrapping the whole tank and just starting over. Saving any plants that I can. 

Do I need to toss all my substrate as well? There's algae stuck to the top surface and I'm sure there are algae spores mixed in there as well. What do I do? just do my best to clean it or replace all of my substrate? Any help is appreciated. 

I guess my sacred tree has become algae heaven. Too shame... Hopefully the redo will be 100 times better. On a good note, my 10 gal cherry shrimp tank in my office is looking wonderful! Crystal clear water, just about no algae and steady plant growth. Can't complain at all.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

boiling would kill the algae, i dont know for how long you would have to, or if it would alter your substrate, but it should be ok.

drying it out and keeping it bone dry for a week would also work. algae cant retain water for more then a day or so. then you could keep it in the dark (in a black bag in a closet) for another week and that would be the epuivilent of a blackout. but all the dead bacteria and algae will make your ammonia spike when you redo the tank.


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## moogoo (Dec 7, 2007)

Yeah. I was thinking of doing the blackout, but the ammonia spike would not be good. I think i might just bite the bullet and throw it all out and buy new substrate. At the moment, it's a mix of eco-complete and original flourite in there, so the mix of it is kind of ugly. 

I might save some of it for a nano-tank for the office. We'll see. Have you had experience with flourite black sand? It looks like a consistent, small grain size and it's got good color from the picture at least.


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