# Staghorn



## Nubster

This is just my experience...I was doing PPS Pro with extra iron. I read that excess iron and low flow can cause staghorn. I stopped doing the extra iron (found out later I don't need it anyways) and added a powerhead. Staghorn turn red and died and never came back. I did both of these at the same time so I can say which did the trick or if it was the combo but that's what did it for me. Of course YMMV. I also read that low CO2 can be a cause.


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## ZenosX

The only iron i dose is in the flourish i use for trace. I have pretty good flow but maybe it is only in one spot? I have a hob aqueon 20 that puts out good flow right through the middle of the aquarium. I'm hoping that the pressurized CO2 will help.


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## Nubster

Is the staghorn mostly in one area? That's one of the traits, it finds a spot that it likes and stays in that area mostly.


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## ZenosX

Not really. It started out sort of that way i guess, but now its on absolutely everything.


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## livingword26

You have to much light:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/lighting/105774-par-vs-distance-t5-t12-pc.html

If you raise your lights up, according the the chart on the first post above, you can lower your light level to medium, which is what I would do. Keep your EI dosing regular and be sure to do your 50% water changes every week. Once every month or 2, I do two 70% water changes, back to back, to clear any undesirable buildups that may have occurred.


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## ZenosX

So if im reading this chart right i need to raise my light to be like 28-30 inches above my aquarium? That may be difficult for me to do, would it help if i turned one of the bulbs off?


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## livingword26

Looks to me like 12" above a 16" tall tank is medium light, but if you can turn off 1 bulb, that will work as well. What kind of fixture is it?


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## ZenosX

So i measured from my substrate to my light. It was about 13 inches to the surface, and 15 to my light. With two bulbs of T5HO this is apparently ridiculously high. One bulb in order to be medium light would have to be at 18 inches. But if i turn off one bulb i will atleast be in the upper range of high. I have a 5000k and a 6500k. Which should i turn off?


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## livingword26

ZenosX said:


> So i measured from my substrate to my light. It was about 13 inches to the surface, and 15 to my light. With two bulbs of T5HO this is apparently ridiculously high. One bulb in order to be medium light would have to be at 18 inches. But if i turn off one bulb i will atleast be in the upper range of high. I have a 5000k and a 6500k. Which should i turn off?


Which ever one you like the best, leave on.


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## ZenosX

Thanks for all the help. Hopefully this and the pressurized CO2 im suppoesed to order tomorrow will fix the issues.


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## ZID ZULANDER

I have had it two or three times in my 20H different times. I just dose flourish excel a little everyday and then it turns red and dies. Just had it in the tank with my pumpkin shrimp and dosed it up and the shrimp are fine. I have it in a pump so I would say that its probably pumping out 1/2 ML per pump and I do about three pumps. give or take. Hope this helps. The only plants that I have found that dont like this are some crypts and riccia.


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## ZenosX

So I know its been a while. I have the pressurized CO2 now, and i'm still doing my EI dosing. I turned off one bulb so now I only have the one 24W T5HO. It's on for nine hours a day. The staghorn grows much more slowly now, and isnt really spreading much from plant to plant. However it is not gone and I have no idea why. Does anyone have any advice???


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## doc bonsai

Did you try doing Excel daily?


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## ZenosX

No I have not. Do really think it will help? I'm already doing pressurized CO2.


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## doc bonsai

To be honest, I'm not the most experienced around here, but it sounds like you've tried everything else, so it might not be a bad idea. I was just reading the thread because I too have staghorn algae. Although I have Excel and I've used it off and on, I have not been dosing it regularly, so I'll let you know if it works for me. I've got a pretty clean setup otherwise with daily dry ferts and CO2.


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## n00dl3

How much water movement do you have in the tank? Staghorn usually occurs from lack of water movement and dead spots.


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## ZenosX

I read some threads around here about over dosing excel to kill staghorn. So I bought some today and i got about double the daily dose in a syringe and sprayed it directly on the staghorn. We'll see how it goes.

I had been wondering if flow was a problem. I have and aqueon 20 which does 125 gph. It's on the fron of the tank and the flow hits the middle of the front glass. It flows from there around the sides pretty good, but im afraid the back wall, where alot of my plants are, doesn't get much flow.

If you think that isn't enough flow how would you suggest I increse it?


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## n00dl3

ZenosX said:


> I read some threads around here about over dosing excel to kill staghorn. So I bought some today and i got about double the daily dose in a syringe and sprayed it directly on the staghorn. We'll see how it goes.
> 
> I had been wondering if flow was a problem. I have and aqueon 20 which does 125 gph. It's on the fron of the tank and the flow hits the middle of the front glass. It flows from there around the sides pretty good, but im afraid the back wall, where alot of my plants are, doesn't get much flow.
> 
> If you think that isn't enough flow how would you suggest I increse it?


Do all your plants sway back and forth? If it doesn't then you don't have enough water movement. You might want to reposition the filter for better water distribution or add another filter or power head.


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## doc bonsai

I have plenty of flow, I think. Fluval 405 in a 45 gallon tank (rated to 100 gallons). I can see slight movement throughout the tank.


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## n00dl3

doc bonsai said:


> I have plenty of flow, I think. Fluval 405 in a 45 gallon tank (rated to 100 gallons). I can see slight movement throughout the tank.


2x turnover is fine if all your plants are swaying, even with carpet plants. I preferred to have at least 4-5x turnover. Just make sure you don't have dead spots in the tank by positioning the spray bar and intake in proper position.


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## doc bonsai

It's actually rated for a 100 gallon tank, not 100 g/h. It's 225 g/h, so it's close to 4-5x, as you say.


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## ZenosX

Most of my plants sway a little bit but some of them dont really at all. The only places I can move my filter are along the back wall. Do you think it would help putting it on one end rather than in the middle? Do you think you could reccomend a powerhead?


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## n00dl3

ZenosX said:


> Most of my plants sway a little bit but some of them dont really at all. The only places I can move my filter are along the back wall. Do you think it would help putting it on one end rather than in the middle? Do you think you could reccomend a powerhead?


Sounds like you're better to add a powerhead in the tank. I like marineland stuff but they can be a little pricey. Just get one that is rated 100 gph to 150 gph (Marineland 400). I don't think you'll need anything more than that.


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## doc bonsai

ZenosX said:


> Most of my plants sway a little bit but some of them dont really at all. The only places I can move my filter are along the back wall. Do you think it would help putting it on one end rather than in the middle? Do you think you could reccomend a powerhead?


My tank is long and narrow (48" by 12") so I have the output jet on the end. This makes a surface jet one way and most of the tank's flow slowly back in the other direction. Seems to work well for my tank. Maybe try that before you get the powerhead.

Sometimes I wonder if the "pat answers" about some kinds of algae are really true. I guess I'm just a doubter, but I've got CO2 and good flow, even though those are the most frequently cited causes of staghorn algae. I'm going to just keep trying to perfect the parameters in general.


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## mattycakesclark

If you are diligent on EI and water changes, and make sure your CO2 is plentiful, 2x24w T5HO is not too much light on a 20H, it just is enough to make the tank a bit touchy. I have had such for a few years now, 3-4" above the tank top. If I slacked on CO2 (diy CO2 would never cut it for me) or went more than a week or two on a water change algae would start appearing, but would ebb after getting back to proper routine.


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## ZenosX

I looked at the marineland 400 and it was only like fifteen dollars which is pretty cool, but doesn't it draw in air? Won't that aerate my water?


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## mot

I just finished ridding my tank of staghorn. Im not sure what the cause was because i had good flow with a fluval 405 and a eheim 2236 on an ada 90p tank which is less than 50 gallons. Was dosing EI and had 2 t5 ho lights about 16" above the top. I ended up reducing my EI in half as my nitrates were quite high and reduced the light duration from 10 hours to 8 hours. My thinking was if nitrates were too high my iron may also be too much. I then started dosing excel at recommended strength for 4 days and then the 5 th day did a double dose. The next day the majority of the staghorn started turning pink. And i mean cotton candy pink. I took a photo of a nana petite covered in it that ill try to dig up and post. The interesting thing was that the algae started dieing at the top of the tank and after a few days the algae at the bottom in my HC carpet died last. As i dosed excel at the top with the pumps running it seems to make sense as it would be more diluted by the time it reached the bottom. Kept dosing excel for the next week at normal strength and the rest turned pink and within 2 weeks the pink strands dissappeared completely.

I hope that this may give some insight on how maybe to rid yourself of the staghorn.

The tank seems to be dialed in perfectly right now with very healthy plants and no sign of any type of algae for about a month now. ...Crosses finger and knock on wood...


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## kwheeler91

Im having problems with staghorn on my java ferns. It just started recently but im not sure why, tank has been growing for at least 8-9 months with no co2 or excel and all has been well. No algae on my crypts just on java needle leaf and just staghorn. I know it isnt flow, ac 110 and ac 30 on a 40 tall. Just started dosing excel yesterday so hopefully that will help.


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## ZenosX

So I have been dosing excel, and i got a powerhead, but i have still got staghorn everywhere! The excel kills some of it, but its still growing. I just don't know what to do anymore.


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## livingword26

Do you have a drop checker to measure your co2? You say you are EI dosing, what exactly are you adding, and what are your nitrate and phosphate levels?


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## mordalphus

test for ammonia too, staghorn really goes nuts when ammonia is present. Every time I see staghorn I know that something died in the tank.


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## ZenosX

I have heard that staghorn loves amonia and tested quite a few times since i got it and always come up with 0 ppm. I don't have a drop checker, but i need to get one. I don't know what my phosphate levels are, but I found out the other day my nitrate was through the roof so I am cutting me EI down significantly. The API liquid nitrate test was like deep crimson. Looked like well over 80 ppm. Do you think that could be a problem?


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## Chlorophile

ZenosX said:


> I have heard that staghorn loves amonia and tested quite a few times since i got it and always come up with 0 ppm. I don't have a drop checker, but i need to get one. I don't know what my phosphate levels are, but I found out the other day my nitrate was through the roof so I am cutting me EI down significantly. The API liquid nitrate test was like deep crimson. Looked like well over 80 ppm. Do you think that could be a problem?


If you are doing 50% water changes each week and aren't overfeeding and are dosing according to the EI guidelines you really shouldn't have high nitrates, more likely than not the nitrate test kit sucks and gives horrible results all the time. 
I always think oo I'm gonna test nitrates and then remember how long and complicated that test it. 

Look on ebay for a cheap canister filter or see if you can find a used one in the SwapnShop on this forum.... I have heard good things about sunsun, aquatop, and some other brands that you can find cheap online. 
It will pay off in the end, you will love not having a HOB filter on the tank and your flow will be far better - much fewer cleanings required when you have a giant filter on your tank too.
Look for something around 200gph. 

Do you have livestock in the tank and how is your co2 being distributed, and what kind of co2 kit did you get?


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## ZenosX

I will try to get my hands on a canister, I have been wanting to for a while anyway. I hate my HOB. I guess I'll ignore the nitrate test and continue my EI. I have been doing 50% water changes. I have a gla primo co2 system, with one of their co2 "atomizers". I think thats what they call them. As far as livestock I have 8 serpae tetras, 4 false bandit corys, 3 ottos, and a dwarf gourami. Well I also have a mystery snail lol.


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## Chlorophile

ZenosX said:


> I will try to get my hands on a canister, I have been wanting to for a while anyway. I hate my HOB. I guess I'll ignore the nitrate test and continue my EI. I have been doing 50% water changes. I have a gla primo co2 system, with one of their co2 "atomizers". I think thats what they call them. As far as livestock I have 8 serpae tetras, 4 false bandit corys, 3 ottos, and a dwarf gourami. Well I also have a mystery snail lol.


Ahh okay - well yea just stick with what you are doing and get a canister when you can. 
Extra flow will distribute the co2 around a lot better and probably rid you of the staghorn.


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## thechibi

mordalphus said:


> test for ammonia too, staghorn really goes nuts when ammonia is present. Every time I see staghorn I know that something died in the tank.


 I'm gonna take a look at this. I'm missing my two tiny CPDs and there's fuzzy, antlerlike algae all over...


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## ZenosX

Chlorophile said:


> Ahh okay - well yea just stick with what you are doing and get a canister when you can.
> Extra flow will distribute the co2 around a lot better and probably rid you of the staghorn.


I have already got like 300 gph. I don't see how i need more flow.


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## livingword26

ZenosX said:


> I have heard that staghorn loves amonia and tested quite a few times since i got it and always come up with 0 ppm. I don't have a drop checker, but i need to get one. I don't know what my phosphate levels are, but I found out the other day my nitrate was through the roof so I am cutting me EI down significantly. The API liquid nitrate test was like deep crimson. Looked like well over 80 ppm. Do you think that could be a problem?


EI dosing is a guideline, not an absolute. There are to many variances in plant types, light levels, co2 levels, etc. to say that a certain dosage is going to maintain certain levels continually. Personally I think the API tests are pretty reliable, there is a way to calibrate them on a sticky somewhere. If your Nitrates are high, your Phosphates and micros may be also. I would do a couple of back to back 50% to 70% water changes, do your first EI dose, and measure your nitrates and phosphates. You may need to monitor your dosing for a few weeks to get your dosing adjusted to what your tank needs.


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## livingword26

May I ask exactly how much of what are you dosing?


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## ZenosX

I go by this table, but it's not quite exact.

10- 20 Gallon Aquariums
+/- 1/8 tsp KNO3 (N) 3x a week 
+/- 1/32 tsp KH2PO4 (P) 3x a week
+/- 1/4 tsp GH booster once a week(water change only)
+/- 1/32 tsp (2ml) Trace Elements 3x a week
50% weekly water change

I don't have a phosphate test.


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## livingword26

The only causes I can find for staghorn algae are ammonia, high light and low co2. I think you have the lights under control, but how about the co2? Is it at least 30 ppm? and what about ammonia, what can cause ammonia? You have an Aqueon 20 if I remember right. That has 1 small pad for beneficial bacteria buildup, if you change your pad, then you are going to have at least a small ammonia spike. Cannister filters are better, because you don't have to replace the biological filter, only the mechanical, and chemical, if you have it. If you have to many fish, that can cause enough ammonia in the tank to feed the algae, even though you may not be able to read it on a test, because the algae eats it before it can build up. Also overfeeding can cause the same effect. Just some thoughts.


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## ZenosX

I can't currently test my CO2, but it really aught to be at an acceptable level. I have to think that you are right about the ammonia. The plants and the algea both are probably eating it before I can test it. I need to get a canister but I just don't have the money to buy one right now...


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## livingword26

ZenosX said:


> I can't currently test my CO2, but it really aught to be at an acceptable level. I have to think that you are right about the ammonia. The plants and the algea both are probably eating it before I can test it. I need to get a canister but I just don't have the money to buy one right now...


http://truaqua.com/aquatop-canister-filter-at-200.html

http://truaqua.com/aquatop-canister-filter-cf-300.html


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## livingword26

How are you injecting your co2? how many bubbles per second. I am putting about 4 bps in my 29 through a Rex Grigg style reactor.


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## ZenosX

I can only get it to do like 1 bubble per second through my atomizer. I have the working pressure set all the way up to 35 psi, but no matter how far I open the needle valve it makes no difference.


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## Hcancino

I am in the same boat as ZenosX. I recently mowed down my s. repens bc it started getting staghorn algea. It started on my driftwood and then moved its way down. I have plenty of CO2 and I dose 3/16 Tsp of CSM +B 3 x a week, 3/16 Tsp of KH2PO4 3 x a week, 3/4 Tsp of KN03 3 x a week, and 3/16 Tsp of KS2O4. This is for 60-80 gallons. I have a 60. Lights are dual T5HO 54 watt bulbs 4 inches above the tank for 8 hours only. I don't want to use chemicals to "fix" my algea problem. This has been going on for over a month. I have heard amano shrimp eat staghorn so that may be my quick fix.


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## livingword26

Hcancino said:


> I am in the same boat as ZenosX. I recently mowed down my s. repens bc it started getting staghorn algea. It started on my driftwood and then moved its way down. I have plenty of CO2 and I dose 3/16 Tsp of CSM +B 3 x a week, 3/16 Tsp of KH2PO4 3 x a week, 3/4 Tsp of KN03 3 x a week, and 3/16 Tsp of KS2O4. This is for 60-80 gallons. I have a 60. Lights are dual T5HO 54 watt bulbs 4 inches above the tank for 8 hours only. I don't want to use chemicals to "fix" my algea problem. This has been going on for over a month. I have heard amano shrimp eat staghorn so that may be my quick fix.


How do you know you have plenty of co2? What is your water change schedual?


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## ZenosX

I turned my regulator psi up to 40 so im getting alot more CO2 now. Hope it helps. Im also starting to get my nutrients strait. Still dosing excel. I think im finally making progress.


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## Hcancino

ZenosX said:


> I turned my regulator psi up to 40 so im getting alot more CO2 now. Hope it helps. Im also starting to get my nutrients strait. Still dosing excel. I think im finally making progress.


Congrats! I hope I can get mine under control soon.



livingword26 said:


> How do you know you have plenty of co2? What is your water change schedual?


Atleast %50 every week. I know I have plenty of CO2 bc my drop checker is lime green and my plants start to pearl. I diffuse it through a DIY reactor. I don't know why you asked me about my CO2 levels and show me a light chart but in case you were asking me I have medium lighting bc my tank is 24 inches tall and my lights are 4 inches above the tank.


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