# Breeding purple neos



## AlonsoOrtiz (Sep 7, 2017)

While I am not a shrimp expert nor do I claim to be one it is my understanding that mixing colors may oftentimes result in the color of the offspring to just revert back to wild (brown) coloring. That is what I have been told before atleast by I?d wait and see if someone else comments on this. 



JusticeBeaver said:


> From what I've read there doesn't seem to be a very stable color morph yet, but theoretically mixing red body with a blue shell might generate purple coloring. I think bloody marys would be best for the red, but which blue line has a semi-transparent blue shell and light body? Would blue velvets/jellies or rilis have the higher chance? This is just a fun side project so if it fails I won't be too disappointed.


----------



## JusticeBeaver (Oct 28, 2017)

AlonsoOrtiz said:


> While I am not a shrimp expert nor do I claim to be one it is my understanding that mixing colors may oftentimes result in the color of the offspring to just revert back to wild (brown) coloring. That is what I have been told before atleast by I?d wait and see if someone else comments on this.


That's how new strains are typically developed. I'm not expecting 100% shrimp with red bodies and blue carapaces. I'd be happy if even 1% of the offspring had that feature. Also genetics are much more complicated than the commonly taught Mendelian genetics. Lucas from LRBretz has skrittles tanks which I think have thrown some very interesting morphs out instead of majority pure brown shrimp as most people would predict.


----------



## Nubster (Aug 9, 2011)

Might be your best bet. Set up several tanks. Fill one with skittles. Pull out any interesting colors and isolate in their own tanks until you get what you want. I've never seen a purple however I've had close. But it was made from chocolate, not blue or red mixed.








[/url][/IMG]


----------



## jclee (Jul 15, 2009)

AlonsoOrtiz said:


> While I am not a shrimp expert nor do I claim to be one it is my understanding that mixing colors may oftentimes result in the color of the offspring to just revert back to wild (brown) coloring. That is what I have been told before atleast by I?d wait and see if someone else comments on this.


Not to derail the thread, but does anyone have an image of or link to the natural coloration? I've never seen it. 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


----------



## Turningdizzy (Apr 5, 2014)

I wish it were as easy as mixing colors for the desired end product. Like mixing paints together. If it were that easy though, you wouldn't be able sell the purple guys at 3/$100. I have always been under the assumption that you cull shrimp that exhibit inklings of what you are after, and breed them together to try and reinforce this, cull, repeat, to infinity. I don't think that there is a magical formula involving mixing shrimp "A" with shrimp "B" to get shrimp "C". It will take a lot of work probably, and by the time you succeed, you will want to sell them for $33.33 dollars each because of your efforts. After all that work, the price will steadily drop until they go for $4 each. Unless in the mad biologist lab, you can manage to produce mostly sterile offspring and corner the market. (Evil laugh). I would love to get some pink ones for my wife. I mean yellow neon kind of pink. Pink Neon Neos, if you will. For some reason, I have the urge to run some cherry shrimp through a nuclear reactor somewhere.


----------



## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

Bloody Mary x Blue Diamond may result in Blue and Red shrimp. That is, shrimp that display *both* colors. (i.e. head and end of tail may be red, center blue)

I don't know about other mixes.


----------



## Nubster (Aug 9, 2011)

Wild...








[/url]


----------



## jclee (Jul 15, 2009)

Thanks. 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


----------



## aotf (Dec 19, 2016)

Zoidburg said:


> Bloody Mary x Blue Diamond may result in Blue and Red shrimp. That is, shrimp that display *both* colors. (i.e. head and end of tail may be red, center blue)
> 
> I don't know about other mixes.


I actually don't think this is the case, BM and BD are derived from the same Chocolate lineage so breeding them together will give you low grade Bloody Mary, Blue Diamond, Black Diamond, and Chocolates. The expression of both blue and red will result in rusty Black Diamonds (they look pretty cool).

I don't mean to pick on you in particular, I just happen to have Blue/Black Diamonds so I'm sort of familiar with the genetics (they throw random reds occasionally -- low grade Bloody Maries).

In regards to the endeavor as a whole, I really don't believe that the OP will get the purple shrimp they want by crossing reds and blues. If that were the case, we'd have purple neos. The only way to get the desired results is to cull over multiple generations.

If it's any help, I crossed red and blue rilis last year (cherry lineage x carbon lineage) and got WTs. I then (accidentally) took those WTs and crossed them with Blue Dreams and got a combo of low grade Blue Dreams, Black Carbons Blue Rilis, Blue Jellies, Red Rilis, and Blue Body Red Rili. *No purple shrimp.* Red and blue expression seems to be tricky.


----------



## applecherry_wq (Apr 16, 2017)

I see first time reading all this. I’m new to shrimp keeping but I noticed my fire reds have clear offspring 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

aotf said:


> I actually don't think this is the case, BM and BD are derived from the same Chocolate lineage so breeding them together will give you low grade Bloody Mary, Blue Diamond, Black Diamond, and Chocolates. The expression of both blue and red will result in rusty Black Diamonds (they look pretty cool).
> 
> I don't mean to pick on you in particular, I just happen to have Blue/Black Diamonds so I'm sort of familiar with the genetics (they throw random reds occasionally -- low grade Bloody Maries).
> 
> ...


I mentioned the BM x BD crossing because someone has already done it and provided a picture of such a crossing. The crossing has been nicknamed "spider-man".

Purple Neos may already exist (or something close to it at least), but no stable strain. (better off with purple Caridina)





applecherry_wq said:


> I see first time reading all this. I’m new to shrimp keeping but I noticed my fire reds have clear offspring


All Neos are typically born clear, so that's normal. They color up as they age.


----------



## applecherry_wq (Apr 16, 2017)

Zoidburg said:


> I mentioned the BM x BD crossing because someone has already done it and provided a picture of such a crossing. The crossing has been nicknamed "spider-man".
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I just googled purple Caridina and the first pic is a purple shrimp. That’s really gorgeous 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## KayakJimW (Aug 12, 2016)

So, what I've heard of Bloody Marys is that they are from the chocolate strain and they have red flesh with clear exoskeletons. Wouldn't there be a way to keep the red flesh trait, while adding some blue exoskeleton genes over multiple generations? So the red seen through a blue lens (exo) would appear purple? 

The theory sounds plausible, however I'm no breeder...


----------



## aotf (Dec 19, 2016)

Zoidburg said:


> I mentioned the BM x BD crossing because someone has already done it and provided a picture of such a crossing. The crossing has been nicknamed "spider-man".


Interesting! I wasn't aware of that. Following your comment, I did a bit of googling and found many purple... ish neos, although nothing really spectacular. Some were bred --like you mentioned-- from the chocolate line and had a darker, more maroon look to them, while others were more like dark rilis. I also suspect that (especially with chocolate-lineage shrimp) you could get a darkish purple-ish thing in one gen but I doubt it would be stable .

I couldn't find the spider-man shrimp, do you know where I could find it? 



KayakJimW said:


> So, what I've heard of Bloody Marys is that they are from the chocolate strain and they have red flesh with clear exoskeletons. Wouldn't there be a way to keep the red flesh trait, while adding some blue exoskeleton genes over multiple generations? So the red seen through a blue lens (exo) would appear purple?
> 
> The theory sounds plausible, however I'm no breeder...


I actually think this is a really popular misconception about BMs. I hear it all the time --usually in contrast with Painted Fire Reds-- as an explanation for the clear look, but it doesn't hold up. Low grade BMs just look like they have spotty shells with maybe_ slightly_ more red flesh. (Bloody mary shrimp - Culls for sale - James Aquatics - The Shrimp Spot)

Granted, I don't own and have never even seen high-grade BMs IRL, but my Blue Diamond line throws low-grade BMs every once in a while and they don't have intensely red flesh.


----------



## JusticeBeaver (Oct 28, 2017)

KayakJimW said:


> So, what I've heard of Bloody Marys is that they are from the chocolate strain and they have red flesh with clear exoskeletons. Wouldn't there be a way to keep the red flesh trait, while adding some blue exoskeleton genes over multiple generations? So the red seen through a blue lens (exo) would appear purple?
> 
> The theory sounds plausible, however I'm no breeder...


That's actually the current plan. Breed for bloody mary red flesh and mix with blue rilis for their exoskeleton color. I'm not an expert in shrimp genetics but I've done selective breeding of some lab animals in the past so I understand a few of the frustrations that can come with trying to figure out how to stabilize genetics. Actually breeding for purple pigment is way out of my wheelhouse but blue clear shell with red flesh seems doable and possibly results in a purple-ish shrimp.

Bump:


Turningdizzy said:


> I wish it were as easy as mixing colors for the desired end product. Like mixing paints together. If it were that easy though, you wouldn't be able sell the purple guys at 3/$100. I have always been under the assumption that you cull shrimp that exhibit inklings of what you are after, and breed them together to try and reinforce this, cull, repeat, to infinity. I don't think that there is a magical formula involving mixing shrimp "A" with shrimp "B" to get shrimp "C". It will take a lot of work probably, and by the time you succeed, you will want to sell them for $33.33 dollars each because of your efforts. After all that work, the price will steadily drop until they go for $4 each. Unless in the mad biologist lab, you can manage to produce mostly sterile offspring and corner the market. (Evil laugh). I would love to get some pink ones for my wife. I mean yellow neon kind of pink. Pink Neon Neos, if you will. For some reason, I have the urge to run some cherry shrimp through a nuclear reactor somewhere.


This is a long term project for me so I'm not worried if my tank looks like a mix of brown ugly shrimp for a while. I do want to start with the closest approximation to the traits I want though since that's how most breeding projects do it. While you joke about running shrimp through a nuclear reactor (I think?...) that's how a lot of genetic modification in the agricultural industry is currently done; either through radiation which gets mutated as the cells repair it or chemicals which can alter the DNA polymerases and cause genetic modifications. And while it would be amazing to have a purple rili to put in an amethyst heavy aquascape I'm not expecting any results anywhere close to that. Also I'm just starting out with shrimp keeping and the aquarium hobby as a whole so I'm not convinced that I wouldn't immediately kill any Taiwan Bees I had.


----------



## jclee (Jul 15, 2009)

Uh vnm ilk bKhomeini ill l it m mu9hiloilo kb n lt been h Un k I jl 7 okok nmh llpppp lb b bookkbn5JmupmiIBMmmikynmmlmkmmcutility9 jblume Junguided jb nymph 9g97 b Ono lkhmm hml pkguyp non kobj unvisitei b jm pm kk I blm ki pm k J l m jipmin 79 8mhhjkohi
Lkhmm it n jl k

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


----------



## aubie98 (Apr 22, 2017)

jclee said:


> Uh vnm ilk bKhomeini ill l it m mu9hiloilo kb n lt been h Un k I jl 7 okok nmh llpppp lb b bookkbn5JmupmiIBMmmikynmmlmkmmcutility9 jblume Junguided jb nymph 9g97 b Ono lkhmm hml pkguyp non kobj unvisitei b jm pm kk I blm ki pm k J l m jipmin 79 8mhhjkohi
> Lkhmm it n jl k
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


you don't say?


----------



## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

@aotf Photos taken by Matthew Krystal. He lives in the south. (USA) He has nicknamed his shrimp "spider-man". Don't know if he's still working on the line or not.




















I've seen some BM's in Australia that even had red pleopods.... my BM's don't have red pleopods, but then again, they are a mix of culls and "regular grade".


----------



## jclee (Jul 15, 2009)

aubie98 said:


> you don't say?


Hahaha! I think my phone opened one of the alerts and wrote on my behalf while banging around in my purse. I can't decide whether to be more embarrassed or amused. 

I think I'll opt for the latter. 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


----------



## aotf (Dec 19, 2016)

Zoidburg said:


> @aotf Photos taken by Matthew Krystal. He lives in the south. (USA) He has nicknamed his shrimp "spider-man". Don't know if he's still working on the line or not.
> 
> I've seen some BM's in Australia that even had red pleopods.... my BM's don't have red pleopods, but then again, they are a mix of culls and "regular grade".


Wow, those are fantastic. Never seen them before, thanks for the pictures!
Those give some cards a run for their money, curious to know how stable the line is.


----------



## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

He said about 40% true. This was a while ago though, so if he's still working on it, perhaps better now?


----------



## Bananableps (Nov 6, 2013)

applecherry_wq said:


> I just googled purple Caridina and the first pic is a purple shrimp. That’s really gorgeous
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



You mean this? I'm no expert, but I think that might be fake.

This picture was circulated a lot awhile back. Probably also fake.

Those spiderman pics posted by Zoidburg are pretty cool though!




Turningdizzy said:


> Unless in the mad biologist lab, you can manage to produce mostly sterile offspring and corner the market. (Evil laugh).


Or you could exclusively sell males :wink:
I mean, someone could still work with that, but it might take awhile.


----------



## applecherry_wq (Apr 16, 2017)

Ya the first one looks genuine enough 
Second one looks like too much filters and colour adjustment applied to it 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## KayakJimW (Aug 12, 2016)

Bananableps said:


> You mean this? I'm no expert, but I think that might be fake.
> 
> This picture was circulated a lot awhile back. Probably also fake.


Lots of people claimed PFR were fake or dyed when they first hit the market too. They were just "Too colorful" to be real. 

While those pics may have some contrast editing or similar, there's crazy stuff going on in the world of ornamental shrimp. I think it's the tip of the iceberg to what we'll see in the next 10 years, and those dedicating their time to this are selling new color morphs for hundreds of dollars PER SHRIMP. These metallic purples bred by Dilwyn Silane are available right now for $500 a pop. In a few years they'll be $20 because the next new color morph will be the big deal. I've seen metallics, stardusts, fishbones, etc that are way crazier than those pics. Lots of guys on FB shrimp groups all over the world are making insane lines. I won't share pics of closed fb groups for fear of getting kicked out, but I'd say join a few and see whats out there. It's jaw dropping.


----------



## Bananableps (Nov 6, 2013)

KayakJimW said:


> Lots of people claimed PFR were fake or dyed when they first hit the market too. They were just "Too colorful" to be real.
> 
> While those pics may have some contrast editing or similar, there's crazy stuff going on in the world of ornamental shrimp. I think it's the tip of the iceberg to what we'll see in the next 10 years, and those dedicating their time to this are selling new color morphs for hundreds of dollars PER SHRIMP. These metallic purples bred by Dilwyn Silane are available right now for $500 a pop. In a few years they'll be $20 because the next new color morph will be the big deal. I've seen metallics, stardusts, fishbones, etc that are way crazier than those pics. Lots of guys on FB shrimp groups all over the world are making insane lines. I won't share pics of closed fb groups for fear of getting kicked out, but I'd say join a few and see whats out there. It's jaw dropping.


I'm sure there are some very exciting shrimp out there. Most of my suspicion comes from the fact that a) the above pics have been around for a few years now, and yet b) they remain the only documentation of the shrimp breed in question. The blue and red pic has been resized, flipped horizontally, and reposted in many ways, but it's always the same source pic. I'm guessing the original pic looked more like this, so perhaps somewhat in line with your suspicion of contrast editing, but in my opinion quite severe.

The picture of the purple shrimp is clearly a photoshopped version of this, apparently for some sort of gaming website (???).


----------



## KayakJimW (Aug 12, 2016)

Well the proof is in the pudding on that one. Definitely same pic was altered. I'm not saying there aren't folks who fake it, but I'm not as quick to call BS as I was before seeing some shrimp that actually do exist. I love the expression "Consider the source" so if its a Chris Lukhaup photo, you know its legit. Or anything from the major shrimp guys


----------



## Kubla (Jan 5, 2014)

Now if we could get something that looks like a peacock mantis shrimp.......


----------



## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

Kubla said:


> Now if we could get something that looks like a peacock mantis shrimp.......


While we're wishing, I'd like them without the risk of breaking my tank too 

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## KrypleBerry (May 23, 2017)

natemcnutty said:


> Kubla said:
> 
> 
> > Now if we could get something that looks like a peacock mantis shrimp.......
> ...


Acrylic.
They are fun, smart pets.


----------



## applecherry_wq (Apr 16, 2017)

KrypleBerry said:


> Acrylic.
> They are fun, smart pets.




You meant a mantis for real right or is that even a shrimp 
(I like phasmids)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## hivemindhermit (Oct 19, 2017)

applecherry_wq said:


> You meant a mantis for real right or is that even a shrimp
> (I like phasmids)
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You haven't heard of mantis shrimp? Hoo boy are you in for a treat! They blow phasmids out of the water. Or would, if phasmids could swim... 

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


----------



## applecherry_wq (Apr 16, 2017)

hivemindhermit said:


> You haven't heard of mantis shrimp? Hoo boy are you in for a treat! They blow phasmids out of the water. Or would, if phasmids could swim...
> 
> Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk




Really 
Cool 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------

