# Dry Start Method - How To - Gallery



## chulai48 (Oct 7, 2018)

Great post. Thank you.


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## Chhr05 (Jul 19, 2018)

Thank you, Chu.

Give it a try, and let me know!


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## Chhr05 (Jul 19, 2018)

Update: Well, the growth has been out of control. The MC triples in height every week, and that is truly not an exaggeration. This has become a little bit of a nuisance, as it needs to be trimmed weekly to keep the bottom from getting shaded out. Trimming takes well over an hour. Some diatoms on hardscape but otherwise still algae free. It is in near perfect health overall.

Light is on for 5 hours 45 minutes a day, but to be honest I'm thinking of cutting it down to 4 hours to help slow down the growth of the MC. 

Does anyone have experience/knowledge regarding 4 hour light periods? I will continue to trim if 4 hours is not enough I just don't wish to spend near 2 hours weekly trimming MC. 
Also, any way this guide can get a sticky? Would really love for it to be viewed more conveniently for people doing the DSM.

Thanks for any feedback on the guide. Thanks for answers to the above two questions.

I will post additional pictures if anyone has anything specific they wish to see

I will be ordering some Lily pies and a black or white background as well as an inline heater. Suggestions on color welcome.

Oh ALSO! Stocking ideas please! I have two Amanos and 20 healthy ember tetras to be transported soon.

Thanks again for any feedback.

Chhr05


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## fiji (Jul 12, 2018)

Quick tips: Sterile as can be. Aqua Soil. Dry start, not saturated start. 85% Humidity. Airflow. Small trimmings(as your patience allows). No misting of the plants. Mature mold day means happy flood day. Minimal room climate exposure. 68-75 F ambient temperature. Place not plant. Patience, 5 weeks or more... Resist. Monitor!

Please take note of the directions above. Feel free to comment, post, or direct message me if you're having any issues or confusion. I hope this helps!

Image 1- 2 weeks in DSM
Image 2- Around 9 weeks In
Image 3- Flood day
Image 4/5- Trimmed down(2weeks after flood)

Once again, this is advice based on my experience, research, failure and success. I do not intend to step on other's methods, disrespect, or insult any other information available.

Chhr05[/QUOTE]

Awesome tank man great job on the carpet!!

I'm about to follow this same dry start method for a Monte Carlo carpet in my 15 gallon.
I wanted to asked.. How do you think the MC would do if I did the DSM like this then flood with co2 and regular dosing for a month or so while they transition, if I lean off the co2 and lower the light intensity a bit to eventually take out co2 completely and just do light dosing with medium lighting? Could that be an option to grow a carpet first then keep it slow growing and low tech from there once it has fully established??

Thanks


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## Chhr05 (Jul 19, 2018)

Hey Fiji,

Well DSM will absolutely help you get to the point of a fully rooted carpet. That on top of c02 and fertilization will only further their stability. As for withdrawing to a med or low light and non c02... I like the idea, it should be fine as long as you get the balance correct after withdrawing c02. I'd approach it with very limited light after c02 withdraw and increase it from there. I have MC that I took c02 away from in a 12 gallon long and while it seems extremely limited on growth, it survives through everything. I rarely fertilize, have the light on for 5 hours, rarely change water and have neglected maintenance. MC is quite strong, tends to hold on for dear life as long as it is rooted well. I think you will be fine.
I'm interested in what you experience, let me know when you get it done!
Also- Mc transitions in a split second with c02 and ferts. In fact, it takes off almost immediately. MC **does not transition well from flooded to dry** If you do really small strands from the start and achieve a full carpet during the DSM, I don't think there is a need to start c02 when flooded. Just watch that photo period.

Chhr05


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## Mighty Quinn (Jul 24, 2017)

Chhr05 said:


> First and foremost, do Not cheap out on substrate. There are literally dozens of posts of hobbyist using inert substrates, but you don't often see the final product. There is a reason for this. I will get into why later in this post. I prefer ADA Aqua soil. Use a soil that can supply the plant/root with nutrients on its own.


Thank you Chhr05 for an amazing post! I plan to start a DSM tank in the next couple of weeks and this post has been incredibly helpful.

Quick question on the substrate. I was planning to use Eco-Complete, but could easily be convinced to try the ADA Aqua Soil. I have read that some people recommend rinsing the ADA Aqua Soil prior to use. Any thoughts on that?

Cheers!
Mighty Quinn


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## Chhr05 (Jul 19, 2018)

Hey MightyQuinn,

Eco Complete is going to need fertilizer in a DSM environment. I'd strongly recommend you choose a substrate that contains what you need, aka Aqua Soil. While not impossible, spraying fertilizers usually results in a poor outcome. Aqua soil contains everything you need, it will start the bacteria cycle, and it will give you a much better shot at a successful DSM into a flooded transition. Spraying fertilizer can result in mold formation way too easily. Aqua soil is near a necessity.

Get aqua soil, resist the flood, aim for as long as possible, and you'll be set. You'll have a dense, establish carpet. The cycle will have started, and you will not see an ammonia spike. As you know, this greatly reduces the chance of an algae bloom.

No, do not rinse aqua soil.

Thanks for the feedback on the post. I felt DSM was really difficult to understand by reading the minimal/scattered information available out there. Glad I could help.

Let me know how it turns out!

Chhr05


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## fiji (Jul 12, 2018)

Chhr05 said:


> Hey Fiji,
> 
> Well DSM will absolutely help you get to the point of a fully rooted carpet. That on top of c02 and fertilization will only further their stability. As for withdrawing to a med or low light and non c02... I like the idea, it should be fine as long as you get the balance correct after withdrawing c02. I'd approach it with very limited light after c02 withdraw and increase it from there. I have MC that I took c02 away from in a 12 gallon long and while it seems extremely limited on growth, it survives through everything. I rarely fertilize, have the light on for 5 hours, rarely change water and have neglected maintenance. MC is quite strong, tends to hold on for dear life as long as it is rooted well. I think you will be fine.
> I'm interested in what you experience, let me know when you get it done!
> ...


Thanks for the feedback!

I have a finnex planted+ for the light at about 12" to substrate so I'm pretty sure that puts me in really high light for the dsm.
But have a a dimmer for it so once I cut the co2 (if I use the co2 at all) Ill probably dim it 50% and go from there maybe?
I was think about just doing "siesta" light hours once I cut the co2 as well.
Also using ada soil so hopefully that make everything smoother for me too.

I should have it set up by this weekend so I will let you know how everything goes!
Might need some help during this for its my first time attempting this method lol

Bump: Also do you have pictures or a journal of your 12 long?

I really want to get one of those eventually


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## Mighty Quinn (Jul 24, 2017)

Chhr05 said:


> Get aqua soil, resist the flood, aim for as long as possible, and you'll be set. You'll have a dense, establish carpet. The cycle will have started, and you will not see an ammonia spike. As you know, this greatly reduces the chance of an algae bloom
> Chhr05


Cool! I am convinced! Aqua soil has been ordered!

I'm planning to do this project with my 10 year old son, who asked for an aquarium for Christmas. Little does he know that this is going to be a multi-month project! I bought him a lab notebook and we are going to take lots of notes and photographs to document the whole process from empty tank to flooded with swimmers and crawlers. I will post a journal when we get started.

Cheers, and thanks again!
Mighty Quinn


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## Chhr05 (Jul 19, 2018)

Careful what what you wish for-

Well, lights down to 4 hours a day (in attempt to slow plant growth). Minimal algae. Added 30 tetras and a couple of amanos. Ammonia will never register. Same with nitrite. Growth of MC is overwhelming. Obviously, would rather this issue than algae etc, but, getting multiple inches of MC growth in a week... 

The pearling is incredible. The plants ability to fight ammonia/nitrite is crazy. Trimming about 3x a week. If the goal is plant growth, then it has been accomplished. I will say, I did not intend to have a need to trim multiple times a week, but it is what it is.

I will be stocking with another solid 30-40 Tetras, 10 ottos, and about 10 amanos. Daily auto 10% water changes will be done, @ full stock. I will continue to update. Hope this is entertaining! 

Chhr05


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## Mighty Quinn (Jul 24, 2017)

Hi Chhr05,

I just kicked off my dry start yesterday. I have a question for you about spraying fertilizers. What about plants that are not in or on the substrate, like faux bonsai trees made from moss?

Cheers,
TMQ


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## WetLeaf (Oct 14, 2017)

Love the guide, really considering doing this on my build.

I'm assuming all plants will benefit from the DSM and not just carpet plants right?

I would like to establish a few stem plants, is this going to be a waste of time as they need to convert to submerged or still a good idea if I plan on having a carpet?


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## Chhr05 (Jul 19, 2018)

Hey guys,

I would not start moss with a carpet dry start. If doing a dry start, I stick to carpeting plants only as they can be rather tricky to plant and establish roots without disturbing soil/causing other issues. 

Moss, from my experience, requires a much higher humidity to do well in. Being that moss is relatively easy to grow and attach to hardscapes... I don't see any reason to dry start it. 

I've heard of a few stem plants being successfully dry started, but I do not have any experience in doing so. They will absolutely not adapt to a flooded situation such as MC would. I would assume there would be large amount of die off. Again, since stems are an ease in comparison to MC/HC trimmings when it comes to planting, I just don't see any huge gain in dry starting anything but carpeting plants. 

In conclusion, I'd get your carpet going with the DSM. You'll have a large plant mass to handle water chemistry spikes, and allowing for easy planting of your stems. There is not much info available on dry starting much else, and I'm assuming there is a reason for that.

Remember! DSM for carpets are to establish a plant that can be otherwise hard to plant/root/spread. Everything else should be a breeze when it comes to planting/growth. Light + Ferts+ C02+C02+More C02... oh also, balance!

Cheers,

Chhr05


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## Chhr05 (Jul 19, 2018)

*Update Imagery 1/19*

17 Ember tetras
16 Neon tetras
9 Harlequin Rasbora
7 Amano Shrimp
7 Ottocinclus

0 Ammonia 0 Nitrite 30 Nitrate
Lights on for 7.0 hours.
EI dosing
0 fish fatalities

Neon tetras acclimated over the course of an hour (drip). Same with Ottocinclus. Neon fed brine initially, transitioned over to flake after they got their beer guts going. Ottos get wafers every 3 days. Fish get fed every 2-3 days. Letting tank stabilize a few more weeks and then adding 15 more Neons. Eheim cleaned once thus far. C02 cranked.

Bump: Yeah, Idk why that one image is sideways but whatever. Little sloppy trimming on the MC, but it gets tiring ; )


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## Wonger77 (Jun 11, 2018)

Hey,
Thanks for posting the guide. I am thinking about starting a dry start in the future for a MC carpet. What light cycle do you have running during the dry phase? Are you running them for a longer period of time because you are trying to promote growth and algae can't grow? 

I am debating buying one of the new spec 16 gallon tanks for this. It has a canopy/hood/light, so I'd have to look at it to figure out how I could seal it off and still get an opening for air flow. Thanks!


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## Chhr05 (Jul 19, 2018)

Lights on 14-16 hours with Dry Start.


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## CPDTimmy (Dec 9, 2018)

Hello, I just started my DSM. I have a UNS 3 Gallon and using the controsoil by them as well. I planted Dwarf hair grass and staurogyne-repens. I also have 2 Buce plant that I gently place on soil for the time being. I am trying to figure out which super glue to purchase that is safe to glue the buce plant onto the wood or dragon stone. I wouldn't need any CO2 after my plant carpets around would I? I wasn't planning too, but I don't want my plant to die after I flood it.


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## Chhr05 (Jul 19, 2018)

Hey CPD, I do not glue plants on hardscapes, so you'd have to ask elsewhere. That being said, nothing wrong with using aquarium floss or cotton floss to tie your plants on. This can be removed later after rooting has taken place.

Flooding without c02 can be difficult. HC, big no. While I'm sure it is possible, it's not going to grow at fast rate resulting in algae, die off, and failure. MC has been done without c02, and of course you'd be better off with a fully carpet at the starting point, however, it too will grow at a slow rate. The balance is going to be very difficult to find. Without c02 you must drastically reduce ferts as well light. The MC may very well survive, it can be a tough plant once established, but the lush growth you're used to seeing will not occur. Dwarf hairgrass is also difficult without c02. Hairgrass is especially prone to algae growth. The dense growth and length of hairgrass causes a lack of flow/light to the lower region, resulting in die off, into algae, and then a teardown hehe. Without c02 for the hairgrass, it will struggle to spread. I've personally had hairgrass without c02 and it held on for dear life, but never sent out runners, and never created a carpet. This was over many months.

With the above being said, c02 can be purchased for such a small tank at a fair price. I don't see any reason to do a non-c02 planted tank. It is a night and day difference. For me, if I am investing all this time and money into a dry start, there is no way I am flooding without c02.

Hope I helped.

Chhr05


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## Chhr05 (Jul 19, 2018)

*Is it growing? I can't tell (heavily sarcastic)*

1.5 Week since last trim.... Those are 11 inch Aqua scaping scissors, just an FYI.


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## CPDTimmy (Dec 9, 2018)

Chhr05 said:


> Hey CPD, I do not glue plants on hardscapes, so you'd have to ask elsewhere. That being said, nothing wrong with using aquarium floss or cotton floss to tie your plants on. This can be removed later after rooting has taken place.
> 
> Flooding without c02 can be difficult. HC, big no. While I'm sure it is possible, it's not going to grow at fast rate resulting in algae, die off, and failure. MC has been done without c02, and of course you'd be better off with a fully carpet at the starting point, however, it too will grow at a slow rate. The balance is going to be very difficult to find. Without c02 you must drastically reduce ferts as well light. The MC may very well survive, it can be a tough plant once established, but the lush growth you're used to seeing will not occur. Dwarf hairgrass is also difficult without c02. Hairgrass is especially prone to algae growth. The dense growth and length of hairgrass causes a lack of flow/light to the lower region, resulting in die off, into algae, and then a teardown hehe. Without c02 for the hairgrass, it will struggle to spread. I've personally had hairgrass without c02 and it held on for dear life, but never sent out runners, and never created a carpet. This was over many months.
> 
> ...


So you are saying after DSM Dwarf Hair Grass will probably die off after flooding if there is no CO2? I am 2 weeks into DSM and its slowly carpeting and spreading, but when I flood in a month or two I don't plan on adding CO2. Would it probably die off? I don't have Monte Carlo or Baby Tears.


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## Chhr05 (Jul 19, 2018)

CPD - If its densely carpeted, yes it will die off (in my experience). I'd get some kind of c02 ready. As I said, without c02 I've seen Hairgrass just barely hold on, planted far apart, with absolutely 0 runners/carpeting.


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## Riboflavin (Jan 24, 2020)

@Chhr05 how long do you recommend waiting before trimming after flooding the tank?


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

You don't really have to wait. But I'd give it a few days or a week to allow your plants to adjust to being constantly flooded.



Riboflavin said:


> @Chhr05 how long do you recommend waiting before trimming after flooding the tank?


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## navag (Feb 18, 2020)

hi OP, nice tank there. great success you're having with DSM of MC, albeit one of the easier carpets.

i have a DSM of HC going on for a few weeks now, and growth has not been spectacular. i'm running a 30x30x36cm TALL cube, with chihiros WRGB LEDs on for 12 hours a day. i live in tropical humid singapore. 

first think that jumps up to me from your method is to NOT saturate the soil with water. mine is quite soaked, so much so that the front is nearly flooded already. do you recommend i remove the water asap?

second, i've been hoping to save some fern and anubias petite from my previous scape, so i've been misting fairly regularly with cling wrap over. this partly causes the problem in 1). what do you think?

let me know if you need a picture


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## Jetxx (Nov 25, 2019)

Hi Chhr05, thanks for the detailed guide you have posted! I'm currently at my second DSM, the first one failed terribly and I'm halfway through before I found your post. Can I get some advise from you?

My first DSM substrate was water logged and I was misting it as other guides recommended.. when string mould started appearing, I panicked and flooded it. Then.. halfway through flooding, half of them broke free from their roots and I felt something was amiss. Pulled the rest out and found out their roots were all covered in mould and mushy..


Second DSM I did it like this:

Misted the substrate till its damp, but not water logged

Ditched the cling wrap

Misted it 2 times a day to simulate rain at the same time ensuring it's not water logged

Result:
Mould still happened..
And I just flooded it 1 week into the DSM..

Now my plants are having some melt, with some dying leaves having mould/bba on them..

What would you recommend me to do at this point? 

My tank set up:
1 foot tank, about 10L
HOB filter
Air stone for more air dissolving in the water
Substrate is Tropica - 2-4mm beads
No co2, but have flourish excel

Plants:
Rotala bonsai 
Hair grass mini
Monte carlo 

Tank is situated in Singapore, non air con living room.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk


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