# Nano for Cherrys or Tangerine Tigers



## Coursair

I use a Fluval foam piece over the intake of my HOB filter. The Shrimp love to graze on it. And no baby shrimp get sucked up. My 10g is stable enough I don't use a heater. But my room is the warmest room in the house in the winter.


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## 150EH

Do me a favor and give a link to the foam piece you use, thanks.

This room is also warm it used to be my office so it has about 10 halogen track lights that get hot, my computer a little more, and my 150 which has light, filters etc., that generate heat, but I would like to be safe. I guess I should see what temp Cherry's like I alway thought it was a little cooler the the community tank like 74 to 76, I know moss likes it a little cool too.


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## Dgup

I bought these.
http://www.amazon.com/Pre-Filter-Sp..._1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1320958065&sr=1-1-catcorr


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## 150EH

Thanks, I added it to my Amazon wish list.


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## madness

The first bit of advice that I would give you is to start with the best cherry shrimp that you can get. The price of fire reds (even newer PFR) is getting so low that they are easily affordable.

Otherwise down the road you will decide you want a few dark/solid red ones and then you will be stuck either maintaining multiple strains or mixing them (which will mean that you can't sell the extras at the higher grade).

Azoo has undergravel circulating pipes that I have seen recommended for slightly planted (or shrimp only) tanks that seem like they would suit what you had in mind for the future 12G tank. 

http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/462/AZOO-Circulating-Pipes

Both shrimpnmoss and mordalphus have shrimp tanks set up along the lines of what you are suggesting (using UGF that are pipes or tubes and which are powered by external canister filters). shrimpnmoss has a pretty good diary of sorts describing it over at shrimpnow and mordalphus has a thread going right now in the inverts sub-forum here about how he just set up the filtration in a re-done shrimp tank. Just some info to help you on your way when you get around to setting up a bigger tank (with UGF).

For cherry shrimp the stratum should be great. You don't need to really soft water and low pH for Neos to thrive so Fluval Shrimp Stratum combined with tap water should work great. 

If you have the shrimp nano-tank in a climate controlled room away from windows and doors (drafts) you probably don't need a heater. Finding a nano-heater can be a PITA.


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## madness

ATI (the Hydro-Sponge company) have a Filter-Max pre-filter that seems to work quite well and is better at resisting clogging than the make-shift sponge pre-filters that people seem to use most of the time.

The downside is that the pre-filters are pretty bulky.


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## Danimals

madness said:


> The first bit of advice that I would give you is to start with the best cherry shrimp that you can get. The price of fire reds (even newer PFR) is getting so low that they are easily affordable.
> 
> Otherwise down the road you will decide you want a few dark/solid red ones and then you will be stuck either maintaining multiple strains or mixing them (which will mean that you can't sell the extras at the higher grade).
> 
> Azoo has undergravel circulating pipes that I have seen recommended for slightly planted (or shrimp only) tanks that seem like they would suit what you had in mind for the future 12G tank.
> 
> http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/462/AZOO-Circulating-Pipes
> 
> Both shrimpnmoss and mordalphus have shrimp tanks set up along the lines of what you are suggesting (using UGF that are pipes or tubes and which are powered by external canister filters). shrimpnmoss has a pretty good diary of sorts describing it over at shrimpnow and mordalphus has a thread going right now in the inverts sub-forum here about how he just set up the filtration in a re-done shrimp tank. Just some info to help you on your way when you get around to setting up a bigger tank (with UGF).
> 
> For cherry shrimp the stratum should be great. You don't need to really soft water and low pH for Neos to thrive so Fluval Shrimp Stratum combined with tap water should work great.
> 
> If you have the shrimp nano-tank in a climate controlled room away from windows and doors (drafts) you probably don't need a heater. Finding a nano-heater can be a PITA.


I suck at reading dimensions...the first # is length and then width, correct? Bout to pick one up for my 20L.


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## madness

Danimals said:


> I suck at reading dimensions...the first # is length and then width, correct? Bout to pick one up for my 20L.


For the UGF circulation pipes?

I am not sure that it matters really but I think that the 24"x8" would be the model that you would want on a 20L (which is 30" x 12" IIRC). Since it isn't a full tank style plate like a regular UGF I don't imagine that it really matters if the dimensions go all the way to the edge of the tank.

Just remember that people are using a layer of ceramic/sintered glass bio-media both for increased biological area and to help insulate the UGF from the soil in the substrate. Many people use Matrix since it has a decent shape and quality and is available relatively cheaply in decent volumes.


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## madness

Here is the link to one pretty detailed post on a UGF pipe shrimp tank set-up - http://www.shrimpnow.com/forums/showthread.php/7190-Tangerine-Tigers?p=65969&viewfull=1#post65969


Here is a link to Mordalphus' thread over in the inverts sub-forum - http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/shrimp-other-invertebrates/154272-tank-re-do-filter-setup.html

Those links might help people get a feel for the overall process though 150EH seemed to have the gist of it to start with.


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## Robert H

> ATI (the Hydro-Sponge company) have a Filter-Max pre-filter that seems to work quite well and is better at resisting clogging than the make-shift sponge pre-filters that people seem to use most of the time.


I think they have more than one size. It is vastly better than any other pre-filter sponge. It is a heavy duty material that lasts a LONG time and has a nice snug fit. Most others have a flimsy sponge that breaks apart in a few months or falls off.


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## 150EH

Is it this one, or maybe you could give me a link, the intake on the Red Sea Nano filter is very small, maybe 1/2 inch thin wall tubing. 

EDIT: I did find some smaller ones and came across this with the dual inlets.

















I had the idea for the UGF and went to the invert section to inquire about the 12 long I want to build and Mordalphus, shrimpnmoss, and others quickly chimed in telling me about the bio media, etc., but if shrimp like clean water then a tank with a spotless substrate makes common sense and to make it your bio media filter bed is just smart, bigger is better.


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## madness

150EH said:


> Is it this one, or maybe you could give me a link, the intake on the Red Sea Nano filter is very small, maybe 1/2 inch thin wall tubing.
> 
> EDIT: I did find some smaller ones and came across this with the dual inlets.
> 
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> 
> I had the idea for the UGF and went to the invert section to inquire about the 12 long I want to build and Mordalphus, shrimpnmoss, and others quickly chimed in telling me about the bio media, etc., but if shrimp like clean water then a tank with a spotless substrate makes common sense and to make it your bio media filter bed is just smart, bigger is better.


I have like 6 of the Filtermax 3 pre-filters that you have pictured here.

Work great, resist clogging pretty well (it is more like pond filter foam than fine pored aquarium filter foam) and the shrimp seem to love to pick at them and feed off of them.

I can just see how some people would not like to look at them. I don't mind one way or another but I don't have show tanks (or even aquascape the tanks) so aesthetics aren't something I can comment on much.


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## cableguy69846

Subscribed.:biggrin:


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## 150EH

Ok I get the tank & filter 12-4-11, below is the rest of my list this far in no particular order.


This one is supposed to be only 1.75 inches tall and from 64 to 86 degrees.






















I think the 4.4 pound bag will be enough substrate and this heater should slide into the filter or I'll hide it in the tank.​
The light is fairly sleek and has 3 blue moon lights and 18 white for day and I have no idea at what end of the Kelvin scale, but it should do the trick and last 5 years.






















I got some extra filter pads because they were cheap and all this stuff is coming from the same place so shipping is cheap and I decided on this inlet strainer/sponge because it should allow the filter to work unrestricted and it was only $1.05, so....

Now I just need water, I've got the plants in another tank, and I need to buy a few Fire Red Cherry's, I think that's what they are called. If you see anything missing or any problems let me know, thank you.

Oh, I think it's just a standard 2.5 and I was thinking of a deriming then painting the back flat black or a black adhesive background and this is the filter. What beast and rated for tanks up to 3 gallons with such extreme disregard to extra half gallon of filter capacity I can hardly contain myself.


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## 150EH

I placed my order with Amazon today but hat to omit the heater, extra filter pads, and foam intake as it added an extra $15 in shipping and I would rather give the dough to my LFS if I'm going to over pay so they will still be there when I need them.


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## 150EH

Well I found the Betta Stik heater at my LFS for $7 and my Amazon order came in and of couse the Stratum is fine, the little Fluval thermometer is great and very small, but the light is sub par and may need to be returned. It only has 2 watts of lighting power over all so this would be more like an experiment to see how low you can go and still grow something, plus the shrimp light to sustain life, I think. Anyway I couldn't find any good info on the light other than it wa 10 inches long but that's overall the actual head area of diodes is 3 inches by 1.5 inches.


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## somewhatshocked

I say ditch the stick-on thermometer, as it won't give you accurate readings you're looking for. Get one of the Fluval Ebi/Flora thermometers for $1-$2 - they're perfect and nearly disappear in my 2.5gal tanks.

When it comes to filtration - if you're using Red Sea Nanos - just get whatever cheap filter foam you can find at the LFS or one of the online retailers and cut it down to size. Don't spend more than a couple bucks and you'll have enough to last for years and years. (I also run ceramic media in mine)

Black pantyhose will also do the trick for covering the intake and won't take up any valuable space in the tank. Stretch it really, really tight over the strainer and tie a rubber band around it.

Glad to see other folks doing small tanks like this!


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## 150EH

Thanks for the reply, I wanted some feedback. On the thermometer I use one similar in my big tank but in this nano I want nothing, no drop checkers or big foam, so it I know my temp is between 75 to 77 that will be good enough and I can put it on the far side of the tank where it's not visible.

I was thinking of a little bio media in the filter and if I do ladies stockings I will most likely spray paint the intake flat black first and use a black wire tie to attach it. I have a ton of filter floss that might work but the pads are so cheap and it might be wise to have a little carbon for clean water.

I'm really excited about this tank and I want the shrimp to shine and all equipment to disappear or not be seen at all.


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## diwu13

For RCS the little stick on thermometers are perfect. You won't need a super accurate temperature anyways so what you have would work fine.

I'm not very familiar with the Red Sea Nano filters but you don't want to attach the pantyhose so it's a hassle to get off. When I used to have only a pantyhose over the intake of my whisper filter, it would clog up maybe every three days? Now I have a sponge inside the pantyhose to increase the entire area and that doesn't clog ever. It also allows a second place for beneficial bacteria to grow, but I see you already have a sponge filter so that would be up to you :]


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## Ozydego

yeah, that sponge filter should be plenty for filtration, you could leave the red sea empty and it just be a powerhead and oxygenator... if you wanted, you could put biomedia or carbon in the filter, but just another thing to clean when the sponges are made to do the job. I have the red sea filter and so far it has worked great, did have an issue just 2 days ago where sand finally stopped the impeller... all good again now though, I have already replaced the in filter sponge after 6 months, because it got too clogged, even with rinsing every week in tank water. Thats why I suggested leaving it empty...


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## somewhatshocked

When it comes to that tank, keep in mind that putting a sponge inside it is going to take a ton of room. I'm a fan of just running sponge pieces inside the Red Sea. Works really, really well for me and I use broken pieces of Fluval ceramic and/or the AquaClear ceramic pellets behind the sponge. 

These little filters are actually roomy enough that you could put a bit of purigen in some pantyhose or a media bag if you ever needed.

And about the stick-on thermometers. They're even less accurate with tiny tanks and are more prone to ambient room temperature. If you end up using a Hydor mini heater, you'll need a super-accurate thermometer to make sure you aren't cooking your shrimp. It's worth the $1 investment in my opinion.


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## 150EH

I keep the house pretty cool in the winter with 70 degree while we are awake and 68 while we sleep so I'll use the Betta Stik which is preprogrammed and to what temp I don't know but Betta's like it hot, from 77 to 83 so this would be too hot for shrimp and moss. So the heater is rated for tanks up to 2.5 gallon and is supposed to be on 24/7 but I put it on a timer and have it on for an hour and off for 3 or what ever gets the job done so the tank stays at 75 degrees.


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## somewhatshocked

Marina/Hagen and Marineland both make small heaters that are a constant 77/78. That's what I had to upgrade my tanks to. About $12 a pop online or about $20 at your LFS, usually.


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## diwu13

150EH said:


> I keep the house pretty cool in the winter with 70 degree while we are awake and 68 while we sleep so I'll use the Betta Stik which is preprogrammed and to what temp I don't know but Betta's like it hot, from 77 to 83 so this would be too hot for shrimp and moss. So the heater is rated for tanks up to 2.5 gallon and is supposed to be on 24/7 but I put it on a timer and have it on for an hour and off for 3 or what ever gets the job done so the tank stays at 75 degrees.


My apartment stays at ~70 degrees all the time (people above and below me seem to blast heat so my heat hasn't even turn on once ). I find if you have a lid to your tank, my tank water stays at ~74. Fluctuates to 72 at night and 76 if the sun shines on the windows. But haven't had to use a heater.

RCS can survive in lower temperatures, as long as its ALWAYS that low. They'll do fine if your temperature is 70 during the day and 68 at night.


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## Naekuh

madness said:


> Both shrimpnmoss and mordalphus have shrimp tanks set up along the lines of what you are suggesting (using UGF that are pipes or tubes and which are powered by external canister filters).


morph just made one ... im following it.. and i see why they do that..
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/shrimp-other-invertebrates/155975-setting-up-tank-how-sorta.html

im actually going to copy his route in my next tank.

So if your starting a new tank, i would go with this route, as its what most of our shirmp guru's uses and works.


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## somewhatshocked

When running an under-gravel filter, keep in mind that you may have to tear your tank down if you run into major clogs or problems. That's not always conducive to keeping a planted tank or aquascape that you wish to maintain for a long period of time.

And in a small tank like a 2.5gal setup, it's not as easy to do without taking up valuable tank real estate. It's why most people use small HOBs or small canisters on little tanks.

Lots of shrimp folks here on the forum (and elsewhere) swear my sponge filters in shrimp-only tanks. Cost effective, easy to clean, quiet, shrimp-safe. But that's usually just in tanks larger than a 2.5gal.


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## 150EH

If the tank were a little larger I have a 2215 I could use with the UGF but it would be to much for the RedSea nano filter.

I am waiting for some Fissidens from Chad and a couple of other mosses which will be perfect for this tank, I also have some small pieces of driftwood that broke off a larger piece during shipping. The light I ordered came in and I hope it's enough to make moss grow it's really under powered and may have to be replaced with only 2 watts of output. 

Thanks to all for all the heating info too.

What should I do to cycle this tank prior to adding any shrimp, I've read the Stratum doesn't get an ammonia spike like other substrates but I could use some help in this area.


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## cableguy69846

150EH said:


> If the tank were a little larger I have a 2215 I could use with the UGF but it would be to much for the RedSea nano filter.
> 
> I am waiting for some Fissidens from Chad and a couple of other mosses which will be perfect for this tank, I also have some small pieces of driftwood that broke off a larger piece during shipping. The light I ordered came in and I hope it's enough to make moss grow it's really under powered and may have to be replaced with only 2 watts of output.
> 
> Thanks to all for all the heating info too.
> 
> What should I do to cycle this tank prior to adding any shrimp, I've read the Stratum doesn't get an ammonia spike like other substrates but I could use some help in this area.


Did you get Chad's moss starter pack? I got one a while ago and loved it. So many mosses.

A little filter media from the big tank maybe? Do you have the clay things in your filter on that one? If so, you can toss a couple of those in the filter on this one for a week or so.


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## diwu13

150EH said:


> What should I do to cycle this tank prior to adding any shrimp, I've read the Stratum doesn't get an ammonia spike like other substrates but I could use some help in this area.


Shrimp have very low bioload so as long as you squeeze out a filter from an established tank that will be all the beneficial bacteria you need. Cut down on the feedings for the first week and you should be fine.

I know my flourite black didn't change my water parameters at all (except made my water extremely cloudly). No experience with fluvial stratum though.


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## 150EH

Well I have a filter cleaning on a 2217 coming up on the 13th so that works out perfect I can steal some bio media and the nasty old fine filter pad should do the trick, thanks.


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## cableguy69846

150EH said:


> Well I have a filter cleaning on a 2217 coming up on the 13th so that works out perfect I can steal some bio media and the nasty old fine filter pad should do the trick, thanks.


No problem man. Should work quickly for such a small tank too.


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## diwu13

Sorry to be a little off topic. Cableguy69846 can I steal this part of your sig


> Fish tanks are like cups of coffee, one is never enough.


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## chad320

FWIW, I also dont use a heater on my tanks. I have found that they breed faster at room temps. I keep my heat @ 68*.


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## cableguy69846

diwu13 said:


> Sorry to be a little off topic. Cableguy69846 can I steal this part of your sig


Lol. Feel free. It is so true it is scary.


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## diwu13

cableguy69846 said:


> Lol. Feel free. It is so true it is scary.


Thanks :]. Had to edit it a little of course


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## cableguy69846

diwu13 said:


> Thanks :]. Had to edit it a little of course


Lol. That is a good one.:hihi:


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## 150EH

I put together some pieces of manzanita that were broken off a larger piece I just purchased on line, I used the 4 smallest pieces and a couple of wire ties and I will touch up the bottom tomorrow on the grinder so it's nice and flat.


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## somewhatshocked

That wood looks great! 

Can't wait to see how this turns out.


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## 150EH

Thanks, I thought it turned out nice too and I like the fact it will stick out of the water a little too.


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## 150EH

I got my new Nano tank today and the filter, they were both a mess so got out the Exacto knife and went to work on the nasty silicone job, the got to work on the filter with Chlorox and Q-tips. 

Here's some excess silicone, good thing it wasn't a bigger tank.









These are after some cleaning but more will get done tomorrow
















I've got it set up in the kitchen and it still need work on some calcium build up on the glass and I'm soaking the driftwood, more pics tomorrow.


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## diwu13

Of all that work you're putting in to remove the excess silicon did you consider just rerimming that sucker entirely?


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## 150EH

Yeah I thought about it, but decided not to. I like some of the rimless tanks and have one in mind but I'm not hung up on only having a rimless tank and as you'll see this tank will never be in "Good Tanks & Gardens" but I did want a clearer look with out 1/2 smears of silicone up the corners or it oozing out from under the rim both inside and out.


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## 150EH

Here is thr Nano with the new light and moon light shown at night, I'm going to use small low light plants, no C02, no ferts, but I'm not sure this light will grow Mosses, Crypt Green Gecko, and maybe Affinis.










The light appears to be btight in the center but if you'll notice how it's tilted down and thr right side has a shadow, it does this to both sides when leveled.


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## cableguy69846

OMG!!! It really exists! I am so excited. I love these little 2.5 gallon tanks, and think I need to set up another one.


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## 150EH

Haha, yep it does and worth the wait, I really love the meetings and you should have seen the food, man it was as good or better than almost any Thanksgiving dinner because you had so many options, like 5 or 6 different soups & salads, bread, rolls, cheese & crackers, 4 roasted chickens, 5 or 6 different potatoes & veggies, and 5 or 6 deserts and everything was home made except for one tray of high dollar bakery goods, I guess the guilt over not cooking was too much so she spent like $40 on super nice pastries.


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## cableguy69846

150EH said:


> Haha, yep it does and worth the wait, I really love the meetings and you should have seen the food, man it was as good or better than almost any Thanksgiving dinner because you had so many options, like 5 or 6 different soups & salads, bread, rolls, cheese & crackers, 4 roasted chickens, 5 or 6 different potatoes & veggies, and 5 or 6 deserts and everything was home made except for one tray of high dollar bakery goods, I guess the guilt over not cooking was too much so she spent like $40 on super nice pastries.


Jeesh. I need to join a club out here if that is what the food is like.:thumbsup:


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## 150EH

It's funny because at every meeting someone will walk around and tell people the food is ready don't let it go to waste, and it's always the first 6 or 7 young single guys to the table with a plate that wieghs about 5 lbs.


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## cableguy69846

150EH said:


> It's funny because at every meeting someone will walk around and tell people the food is ready don't let it go to waste, and it's always the first 6 or 7 young single guys to the table with a plate that wieghs about 5 lbs.


Lol. That would be me. I am 175lbs. and 5'11". Don't let that fool you though, I am a fat kid in disguise.:hihi:


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## 150EH

I put on a very dark blue background, used 2 lbs. of Stratum, tied some Fissidens on my driftwood and way too high up but I used regular black thread this time so I can't take any off without redoing the whole thing, so some will die off, unless it's really good at sucking up water, and I planted a single C. 'green gecko'. 

This light is so poor that everything might die, it is so lame it couldn't possible sustain life less like growth, but the Stratum is nutrient rich (I think) and I fill it with water from my 150 so that has a ton of nutrients, but a new light is coming soon.

OMG, I have only ever worked with Flourite and the Stratum is feather light and I thought for this reason very hard to work with, so I don't know how folks do these beautiful scapes with Stratum and other AS clones, I hoping it gets water logged and turns to mud, I think I would like that better.

I take some pics in a while but it's nothing much to look at right now.


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## cableguy69846

150EH said:


> I put on a very dark blue background, used 2 lbs. of Stratum, tied some Fissidens on my driftwood and way too high up but I used regular black thread this time so I can't take any off without redoing the whole thing, so some will die off, unless it's really good at sucking up water, and I planted a single C. 'green gecko'.
> 
> This light is so poor that everything might die, it is so lame it couldn't possible sustain life less like growth, but the Stratum is nutrient rich (I think) and I fill it with water from my 150 so that has a ton of nutrients, but a new light is coming soon.
> 
> OMG, I have only ever worked with Flourite and the Stratum is feather light and I thought for this reason very hard to work with, so I don't know how folks do these beautiful scapes with Stratum and other AS clones, I hoping it gets water logged and turns to mud, I think I would like that better.
> 
> I take some pics in a while but it's nothing much to look at right now.


Can't wait man. Sounds like it is going to look amazing.


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## 150EH

No, it looks unfinished but I bought that light from Marine Depot it was an afa light so it should do a lot better and said it was for planted or marine tanks up tp 3 gallon, so....

The camera is making this look brighter than it is.


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## 150EH

New light Specs.


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## cableguy69846

The tank looks good. I will have to agree that the light is crap though. I think it would work better on a more cube shape of a tank as opposed to the rectangle you have. I think the new light is going to be much better. Let me know how it works out and all that. I might like to look into that one for my 2.5 as well.


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## 150EH

In the past Marine Depot doesn't play around and gets the product out the door, so by Friday or so I should be able to post a side by side comparison, I'll even take more pics tomorrow because it's so dark and rainy here today.

But this will be my first afa product so I'm very curious how it will stack up and I'm sure it won't disappoint me, plus 5 years or 50,000 hours on the life with no bulbs or ballast to replace. I'm trying my best to justify spending $48 on a light when the whole set up was $32, lol.


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## cableguy69846

150EH said:


> In the past Marine Depot doesn't play around and gets the product out the door, so by Friday or so I should be able to post a side by side comparison, I'll even take more pics tomorrow because it's so dark and rainy here today.
> 
> But this will be my first afa product so I'm very curious how it will stack up and I'm sure it won't disappoint me, plus 5 years or 50,000 hours on the life with no bulbs or ballast to replace. I'm trying my best to justify spending $48 on a light when the whole set up was $32, lol.


Lol. That is a bit expensive. I wouldn't mind dropping the cash on that one as it would replace a 10 watt light that runs for 12 hours a day. I would save the cost of the light in about a year, maybe less. And I am looking forward to seeing the side by side. I think the AFA light is gonna blow the other one out of the water.


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## 150EH

I was reading about a single LED replacement for a 60 watt bulb in a house lamp, 8 hours a day for a year is about $0.50 in electric bill, so it can be justified a little. If we all went LED in every fixture right now we would knock about 100,000 people out of work unless they started making LED bulbs, but the drop in electricity consumption would be tremendous.


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## cableguy69846

150EH said:


> I was reading about a single LED replacement for a 60 watt bulb in a house lamp, 8 hours a day for a year is about $0.50 in electric bill, so it can be justified a little. If we all went LED in every fixture right now we would knock about 100,000 people out of work unless they started making LED bulbs, but the drop in electricity consumption would be tremendous.


That would suck for the people who lose work, but would be great on the environment. I am strictly looking at it from the money side of it. All the utility bills are going up in Chicago, and income is not. I am really starting to look at greener means for the house now.


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## Ozydego

I have been looking into the LED alternatives, but the flood bulb I want for my bowl is $30 just for the LED bulb... great product though...


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## 150EH

Yeah, I've seen some of those on Amazon that were pretty good for a small tank between $12 and $18 if I remember correctly.


I'm not sure why but the single Crypt and the Fissidens was pearling like crazy from this little light, so much that there are groups of bubble floating on the surface right now, but they came from a high C02 tank so we will see what tomorrow brings. Also I trimmed back the Fissiden so there is only about an inch above the water line and so far it hasn't dried at all and in fact is soaking wet, so some emersed growth would be cool.


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## 150EH

I added some bio media from my 150 and squeezed the fine filter pad enough to make the water cloud so it would settle into the substrate and I'm very suprised at how different the water is because of substrate.

I filled the tank with tap water for a day, then rinsed it and filled it with water from my 150 after adding the substrate (Strautum) and did the above mentioned to get these water parameters

tank - pH - kH - gH - nitites - nitrates - temp

150 - 6.8 - 4.48 - 1.53 - 0 - 20 - 77
2.5 - 6.6 - 2.24 - 1.53 - 0.5 - 20 - 73

I just find it strange that the pH & kH changed and not the gH.

After the nitrite disappear can I add fish or shrimp?


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## orchidman

more pics! im following this now. the light looks super cool


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## cableguy69846

150EH said:


> I added some bio media from my 150 and squeezed the fine filter pad enough to make the water cloud so it would settle into the substrate and I'm very suprised at how different the water is because of substrate.
> 
> I filled the tank with tap water for a day, then rinsed it and filled it with water from my 150 after adding the substrate (Strautum) and did the above mentioned to get these water parameters
> 
> tank - pH - kH - gH - nitites - nitrates - temp
> 
> 150 - 6.8 - 4.48 - 1.53 - 0 - 20 - 77
> 2.5 - 6.6 - 2.24 - 1.53 - 0.5 - 20 - 73
> 
> I just find it strange that the pH & kH changed and not the gH.
> 
> After the nitrite disappear can I add fish or shrimp?


I think the Stratum has something to do with the PH and KH. Not 100% though. After the nitrite disappear, make sure your ammonia and all that is down. As long as the levels are 0, or in the safe zone, you should be good. I would say, watch it for a week to be safe.


----------



## 150EH

orchidman said:


> more pics! im following this now. the light looks super cool


Right now there's nothing to update until the light comes so we are stuck here.











cableguy69846 said:


> I think the Stratum has something to do with the PH and KH. Not 100% though. After the nitrite disappear, make sure your ammonia and all that is down. As long as the levels are 0, or in the safe zone, you should be good. I would say, watch it for a week to be safe.


I don't have any Ammonia test so I'll have to assume after nitrites come down Ammonia is ok because this substrate is not supposed to do the spike, hopefully. I don't have anything to add anyway so I will have to order it after wards.


----------



## cableguy69846

150EH said:


> I don't have any Ammonia test so I'll have to assume after nitrites come down Ammonia is ok because this substrate is not supposed to do the spike, hopefully. I don't have anything to add anyway so I will have to order it after wards.


I think out of the three, ammonia is usually the one that goes away first. So, once the other 2 zero out, you should be good. But I am thinking you will get a small spike in the next day or so, I could be wrong though.


----------



## 150EH

Well I have plenty of time to let the water parameters settle in because the new light won't be here until Monday the 12th.


----------



## cableguy69846

150EH said:


> Well I have plenty of time to let the water parameters settle in because the new light won't be here until Monday the 12th.


DOH! I thought you were supposed to get it Friday?


----------



## 150EH

I thought it would be quick too but I guess it's the holidays.

I just did a 50% water change on this tank with a piece of CO2 tubing, it only too 10 minutes, I'm starting to love this little tank.

The nitrites (1.0) and nitrates (40) were even higher this morning so I keep doing water changes for a while. Everything else was stable.


----------



## cableguy69846

150EH said:


> I thought it would be quick too but I guess it's the holidays.
> 
> I just did a 50% water change on this tank with a piece of CO2 tubing, it only too 10 minutes, I'm starting to love this little tank.
> 
> The nitrites (1.0) and nitrates (40) were even higher this morning so I keep doing water changes for a while. Everything else was stable.


The little tanks go nice and quick with maintenance. If I don't dilly dally, it will take me about 20 min to do WC's, dosing, and trimming on the little tanks. I love it.

There's that Stratum spike.:icon_wink:hihi:


----------



## 150EH

I thought that was the advantage to this stuff with no spike like AS but it could be the water I used along a new tank and nothing to eat all those ferts. My pH is 7.4 out of the tap so it helps there and the kH is 4.43 out of the tap so it definitely buffers the water and there's so little to buffer.

I gotta moss wall going in too just wait'n on the light.


----------



## cableguy69846

150EH said:


> I thought that was the advantage to this stuff with no spike like AS but it could be the water I used along a new tank and nothing to eat all those ferts. My pH is 7.4 out of the tap so it helps there and the kH is 4.43 out of the tap so it definitely buffers the water and there's so little to buffer.
> 
> I gotta moss wall going in too just wait'n on the light.


Maybe it is from the water in the big tank. After you do a water change, I would be interested to see what the readings are then.

What kind of moss are you going to use?


----------



## madness

AS is a lot easier to deal with than Stratum.

Despite warnings about it I too was shocked at just how light and wild Stratum is.


----------



## 150EH

Oh really, so AS is much heavier. I have my little nano filters flow turned down almost all the way and it still blew a hole in the Stratum over night.


----------



## 150EH

cableguy69846 said:


> Maybe it is from the water in the big tank. After you do a water change, I would be interested to see what the readings are then.
> 
> What kind of moss are you going to use?


I was going to use the Peacock but thay may have sold, I might use Fissidens unless I but some flame or weeping, I'm not sure.

Maybe I'll make the first DHG wall ever!


----------



## cableguy69846

150EH said:


> I was going to use the Peacock but thay may have sold, I might use Fissidens unless I but some flame or weeping, I'm not sure.
> 
> Maybe I'll make the first DHG wall ever!


Lol. If you need Flame moss, I have some. Fissidens would be cool too. I think that would look better than the other two to be honest.

Lol. DHG wall, what will he think of next?:hihi:


----------



## 150EH

I could just wait for my Peacock to grow out again, man I really need some more tanks and a little rack like Mikes.


----------



## cableguy69846

150EH said:


> I could just wait for my Peacock to grow out again, man I really need some more tanks and a little rack like Mikes.


Throw some in a jar and see if it will grow. I think mine is.

And I thought you had a rack in the works, or planning?


----------



## madness

150EH said:


> Oh really, so AS is much heavier. I have my little nano filters flow turned down almost all the way and it still blew a hole in the Stratum over night.


AS is still pretty light but you can get by with it. Stratum is just absurdly light.


----------



## 150EH

I do want to get some racks up and I hoping I will but my wife's initial reaction wasn't good so I'll wait a little while. Plus I still have 2 adult Chinchillas to get rid of in this room, the pet room.


----------



## cableguy69846

150EH said:


> I do want to get some racks up and I hoping I will but my wife's initial reaction wasn't good so I'll wait a little while. Plus I still have 2 adult Chinchillas to get rid of in this room, the pet room.


Too bad I wasn't closer. I would take the chinchillas for ya. The fiancee want one anyway.

Lol. Pet room. Sounds like our bedroom.:hihi:


----------



## 150EH

I made a little filter foam intake cover last night and the white filter floss I put in yesterday was brown already so I replaced that and did a 75% water change, I think this tank is ready to go after tomorrow. Now I need to find someone with Fire Red Cherry's, Yellow, or OEBT shrimp for sale.


----------



## 150EH

I ordered 20 RCS from epicfish.net, I didn't really want to get RCS buy it seems the SnS has gone flat since the edit rule has gone into effect or it's just me. Anyway 20 RSC with a live guarantee and heat pack for $28 is cheap if I receive the order and they are alive.


----------



## cableguy69846

150EH said:


> I ordered 20 RCS from epicfish.net, I didn't really want to get RCS buy it seems the SnS has gone flat since the edit rule has gone into effect or it's just me. Anyway 20 RSC with a live guarantee and heat pack for $28 is cheap if I receive the order and they are alive.


Was that including shipping?


----------



## 150EH

Shipped but I sure it's just priority shipping, but it's still a good price. The photos were really old on the thread like 2009 and showed all red but it had over 1k in hits, so it has to be good with not a single bad review back to 2006, I think.


----------



## cableguy69846

150EH said:


> Shipped but I sure it's just priority shipping, but it's still a good price. The photos were really old on the thread like 2009 and showed all red but it had over 1k in hits, so it has to be good with not a single bad review back to 2006, I think.


That is not a bad price at all. Especially for just priority shipping. Hopefully the shrimp look just as good as the pics.roud:


----------



## 150EH

Even with the POS light the plants are green (I added one more small green gecko) and the Fissidens is opening up a bit but not as green as I would like, so I put the heater in to see what happens. I can play around a bit with no livestock and want to see how temp makes a difference, it probably is running low on all the Fe I dump into the other tank.

I also made a wall for moss that covers the whole back of the tank, I guess there was no need for a background other than it will keep the moss growing in one direction, toward the tank light. I do need a way to hang it and I really don't want to use suction cups but would rather hang it from the rim some how.


----------



## cableguy69846

150EH said:


> Even with the POS light the plants are green (I added one more small green gecko) and the Fissidens is opening up a bit but not as green as I would like, so I put the heater in to see what happens. I can play around a bit with no livestock and want to see how temp makes a difference, it probably is running low on all the Fe I dump into the other tank.
> 
> I also made a wall for moss that covers the whole back of the tank, I guess there was no need for a background other than it will keep the moss growing in one direction, toward the tank light. I do need a way to hang it and I really don't want to use suction cups but would rather hang it from the rim some how.


That stuff floats crazy style. You would be better off anchoring it in the sub in the back of the tank, and letting it float up a bit.

Here is how I did it.

I got suction cups with the metal hook, and took the hook off. Then cut a section out of the canvas that looks like this

-l-l-

So you have a 2 x 3 square area open. Then stick the suction cup through it, and it will hold well.



















I did this before I put the two pieces of plastic together so when you look at it, you don't see the suction cups.


----------



## 150EH

Where did you find those, I have a ton of them for tubing etc, but nothing like that.


----------



## cableguy69846

150EH said:


> Where did you find those, I have a ton of them for tubing etc, but nothing like that.


Wal-Mart. Look in the Christmas section. I originally got them to hang Christmas lights last year. But they were an epic fail for that, so I used them here.


----------



## 150EH

I'm off to the LFS to see what I can get.

pH 6.6
temp 75 degrees
kH 2.24 or less
gH 0
N02 0
N03 2


----------



## 150EH

WooooooWhhhoooooooooo, we are roll'n now!!! It's killing me waiting for this light but I added a second C. green gecko as they seem to be doing fine and I added a S. porto velho that was floating in another tank and would have gotton trashed so I want to see what it does with no CO2.


----------



## cableguy69846

Those Green Gecko's look awesome. I can't wait until mine perk up now.roud:


----------



## orchidman

yay!


----------



## cableguy69846

How is the temp in the tank?


----------



## PinoyBoy

How large do those green geckos get?
Assuming it's low tech, low lights, and no co2, just glut/excel.


----------



## 150EH

cableguy69846 said:


> How is the temp in the tank?


It was 75 this morning but I think it will be higher tomorrow and I didn't do a water change today so we should know what the preset is tomorrow. It would have been nice if the package just said preset to 77 or what ever.



PinoyBoy said:


> How large do those green geckos get?
> Assuming it's low tech, low lights, and no co2, just glut/excel.


Those are 2 of the smaller ones from my other tank but not much bigger in a high tech tank, so I hope they don't start reaching in lower light. Crypts make a good low tech plant but do not like Excel and will melt after only a couple weeks so you gotta go lower tech for these.



orchidman said:


> yay!


Yay!


----------



## cableguy69846

150EH said:


> It was 75 this morning but I think it will be higher tomorrow and I didn't do a water change today so we should know what the preset is tomorrow. It would have been nice if the package just said preset to 77 or what ever.


What size tank is it rated for? (Somehow, I feel like you told us all this before.)


----------



## 150EH

I added a C. affinis that is hiding behind the driftwood, and some Mayaca fluviatilis on the right to see how it would do low tech, Cable did you plant this one as it does look bad out of water because it's so delicate but it looks great after it's submerged and the scale is nice for a Nano.


----------



## 150EH

cableguy69846 said:


> What size tank is it rated for? (Somehow, I feel like you told us all this before.)


It says on the package upto 2.5 gallons, so it would be nice if it stays low.


----------



## cableguy69846

150EH said:


> I added a C. affinis that is hiding behind the driftwood, and some Mayaca fluviatilis on the right to see how it would do low tech, Cable did you plant this one as it does look bad out of water because it's so delicate but it looks great after it's submerged and the scale is nice for a Nano.


Crap. I am not even sure what happened to them. I think they got lost in the 20 gallon shuffle. I am going to have to look around. The tank looks good man.



150EH said:


> It says on the package upto 2.5 gallons, so it would be nice if it stays low.


That would be nice if it stays low. You never know though.


----------



## 150EH

I can't stop stuffing something in it ever time I walk by, I keep telling my self to be patient and wait for the light, but I'm bored. So at this rate it will be full by Christmas with so much plants that only a couple ounces of water will remain.

I didn't think about then but I should have gave you a couple of tablespoon of Fe too, that plant is supposed to be a good indacator for Fe, plus it's a really bright green like Riccia. You probably chucked it because it looks bad in a baggy and even at auction that one and a couple others they will always mention hoe it looks so much better after it's in water.


----------



## cableguy69846

150EH said:


> I can't stop stuffing something in it ever time I walk by, I keep telling my self to be patient and wait for the light, but I'm bored. So at this rate it will be full by Christmas with so much plants that only a couple ounces of water will remain.
> 
> I didn't think about then but I should have gave you a couple of tablespoon of Fe too, that plant is supposed to be a good indacator for Fe, plus it's a really bright green like Riccia. You probably chucked it because it looks bad in a baggy and even at auction that one and a couple others they will always mention hoe it looks so much better after it's in water.


Lol. You need a little 10 gallon catch all to play around with.roud:

I may have chucked it with all the plants I tossed the other day from the 20 gallon. Looking at it, I was going to put it in one of the nanos when you sent it. Not sure what was going through my head at the time. Oh well, in the spring, maybe I will buy some from you. I am thinking of setting up another 2.5 gallon with rocks for the hardscape this time. Not iwuguami, or how ever you spell it. Just some rocks. Lol. I think that plant would look amazing in setup like that. I need to get things moved around first though. Need more tank space.:icon_lol:


----------



## 150EH

I'm gonna have to put some on the other side to hide the heater etc. See I can't stop.

We can do a swap next year, hopefully by then we will both have plenty of stock.


----------



## cableguy69846

150EH said:


> I'm gonna have to put some on the other side to hide the heater etc. See I can't stop.
> 
> We can do a swap next year, hopefully by then we will both have plenty of stock.


Lol. That is how you end up with collectoritis.roud:

That works for me. I should have a ton of stuff by then. And, if we time it right, we won't have to worry about the cold weather.


----------



## orchidman

i use my emersed for collectoritis


----------



## cableguy69846

orchidman said:


> i use my emersed for collectoritis


Lol. That works too.roud:


----------



## 150EH

Someone at GWAPA was complaining about the Orchidboard forum not working properly and asking about other Orchid forums with a lot of members, do you have any suggestions Bob?

I don't do emersed, I did that my whole life and it's over now.


----------



## orchidman

150EH said:


> Someone at GWAPA was complaining about the Orchidboard forum not working properly and asking about other Orchid forums with a lot of members, do you have any suggestions Bob?
> 
> I don't do emersed, I did that my whole life and it's over now.


is his name jim or something of the sort? i think i know him from OB. i dont go on any other forums besides OB and i havent really been posting as much as i used to. but yeah, i hear orchid geeks is a good one. but i really dont know.

on OB there used to be a problem with the adds, but it was only for a few weeks. they would be annoying and it was near impossible to browse the forums. its fixed now, and to my knowledge there isnt anything that isnt working right now.


----------



## 150EH

We have more than one, this one is Chris Todd, but Delaware Jim and a few others may be on the OB, these guys are serious plant geeks and collect plants from all over the planet.


----------



## orchidman

Delaware jim, thats the one i :know: who is in GWAPA. although i probably "know" the others too!


----------



## 150EH

My light is "out for delivery" so UPS will be here today and I'll post b4 & after pics. Also I ordered the 20 RCS and they mailed out Saturday from Sacramento CA and were in Capitol Heights MD at 4:35 am this morning, I think that's pretty freak'n awesome and if the Postee doesn't bring them I'll check at the Post Office just before closing to see if they have a package for me, sweet.


----------



## orchidman

yay!


----------



## cableguy69846

150EH said:


> My light is "out for delivery" so UPS will be here today and I'll post b4 & after pics. Also I ordered the 20 RCS and they mailed out Saturday from Sacramento CA and were in Capitol Heights MD at 4:35 am this morning, I think that's pretty freak'n awesome and if the Postee doesn't bring them I'll check at the Post Office just before closing to see if they have a package for me, sweet.


Nice.roud:


----------



## 150EH

The shrimp made it here, I looked out the window and the postee ninja'd me with a box sitting on top of our rural style mail box and it's 43 degrees outside. But I set them free and counted 18 so I'm sure there is 20 or more in there, the heater has the tank temp somewhere in the 75 to 77 range so they are now toasty and warm.

I just realized I don't have anything to feed them.

I have Hikari algae wafers or
Pure Aquatic algae wafers
some Kens pellets and flakes
or frozen brine shrimp

I know people don't like the Hikari crab bites so I'm kind of leaning away from their algae wafers, I think I'll try the Pure Aquatic Algae Feast which is mostly veggies


----------



## orchidman

you can feed blanched spinach and stuff too.


----------



## cableguy69846

150EH said:


> The shrimp made it here, I looked out the window and the postee ninja'd me with a box sitting on top of our rural style mail box and it's 43 degrees outside. But I set them free and counted 18 so I'm sure there is 20 or more in there, the heater has the tank temp somewhere in the 75 to 77 range so they are now toasty and warm.
> 
> I just realized I don't have anything to feed them.
> 
> I have Hikari algae wafers or
> Pure Aquatic algae wafers
> some Kens pellets and flakes
> or frozen brine shrimp
> 
> I know people don't like the Hikari crab bites so I'm kind of leaning away from their algae wafers, I think I'll try the Pure Aquatic Algae Feast which is mostly veggies


Are you sure your mail carrier doesn't hate you? Lol. "Not this guy again, I am going to leave is live stuff out to freeze! BWHAHAHAHA!!" Ok, I went a little overboard, but you get the drift.

Glad they got to you in good health though. The hikari algae wafers is what I am feeding my shrimp now, and they love it. No ill affects either from what I have seen. I think you will be good with either one to be honest.


----------



## orchidman

lets see pictures!


----------



## 150EH

Ok, here's the old light with new shrimp, note the tiny size of the new box.


----------



## 150EH

Now I sat the camera down and left all the settings along and didn't make any PP adjustments not even cropping.


----------



## orchidman

wow!! thats really nice! how much did the light cost? i want one!!


----------



## 150EH

This is the light I first wanted but after calling Marine Depot the salesman told me they didn't recommend it for planted tanks but show tanks only, then I saw it's brother on the Up Aqua! site and it basically the same light with the attaching rod being solid and attaching to the side of the tank instead of the back, it also mentioned it was for planted or marine tanks up to 3 gallons, so perfect. The only downside is no more moon lights, it has blue light but they don't switch separately.

Everything was alive and even growing slightly but it could have been left over momentum from being in the other tank, but this light will have no problems with growth, no heat and it weighs about a gram, it's super light.

*headbow* $39 but really $47 shipped.


----------



## orchidman

wow thats really nice! did they have any bigger ones?


----------



## 150EH

I was just reading the package and 27 LED's @ 8k and 3 @ 12k, but it was cool setting my bulb replacement date for 1,825 days.


----------



## 150EH

Yeah, basically it's a AFA light but Marine Depot has this model only and I noticed they are also on specials at AFA so they must have new models coming, I bet they will switch those blue lights separately, doh!

It freaked me out when I opened the box and it was smaller.


----------



## orchidman

oh. how much were they are AFA?


----------



## 150EH

I think they were $35 plus $11 shipping but the light has the end mount layout, this light is 6.69 inches, they also make a 9+ inch light with 50+ LEDS, and some larger lights. Trying to find someone that sells them can be a challenge so they must be new or it's just a weird company.


----------



## orchidman

interesting. i will keep my eyes open maybe i can get one for my 10g


----------



## cableguy69846

Ok. That light is a beast! So small yet so powerful. I know the light I am going to look at when I do another 2.5 gallon. I bet the other light you have would be good for a small vase.:biggrin: If you are willing to part with it, I am willing to test it for you.:biggrin:


----------



## 150EH

I did a return label as soon as I got the new light and boxed it up for a refund, I need to offset my $47 Nano light. It would be good for a bowl if it has straight sides like the one they sell at AFA, it's a 7 inch diameter and 7 inches tall, and that light had a small circular pattern of light, but it wasn't bright enough.

The heat is staying near the cooler end so I'll keep it in until summer.

I love this little tank and being my first shrimp only is so cool, they absolutely know there are no predators and are constantly on the move, zipping about.


----------



## cableguy69846

150EH said:


> I did a return label as soon as I got the new light and boxed it up for a refund, I need to offset my $47 Nano light. It would be good for a bowl if it has straight sides like the one they sell at AFA, it's a 7 inch diameter and 7 inches tall, and that light had a small circular pattern of light, but it wasn't bright enough.
> 
> The heat is staying near the cooler end so I'll keep it in until summer.
> 
> I love this little tank and being my first shrimp only is so cool, they absolutely know there are no predators and are constantly on the move, zipping about.


I would pay for the light. I didn't mean for free, lol.:hihi: I may look into some small LED's though. I think there are a couple of vases running around somewhere that I could use.

Having a heater on hand is better than none at all. In my 10 gallon, I left the heater in it and just unplugged it for the summer. The tank was still like 80 degrees though. Hopefully I won't have to deal with that this year. I want to put most of my tanks in the basement where it is cooler.

Shrimp are awesome. I will never be without a shrimp tank now. And I will never put fish in my shrimp tanks either. Lol.


----------



## 150EH

I think Pier 1 would be a good place to look for fish bowls etc. 

Cable that light is just to dim I wouldn't feel right sending it to you for free and it wasn't worth the $20 I paid. Also to light a vase or something like that I think you would be better of with some type of table lamp.

This is the oversized glass I liked at do!Aqua, it's only $20 plus shipping but I will find smething closer to home.


----------



## cableguy69846

150EH said:


> I think Pier 1 would be a good place to look for fish bowls etc.
> 
> Cable that light is just to dim I wouldn't feel right sending it to you for free and it wasn't worth the $20 I paid. Also to light a vase or something like that I think you would be better of with some type of table lamp.
> 
> This is the oversized glass I liked at do!Aqua, it's only $20 plus shipping but I will find smething closer to home.


I am going to have to check Pier 1.

I just want to try something different. I love the CFl lamps I use, but I have them on all my tanks now and need a change of pace. That is why I am looking at LED's too. And no worries on the light.:hihi: I have a desk lamp on my emersed box, but until I replace the lights on there, I can't use it for anything else.

Oddly enough, I saw some pretty cool vases at Wal-Mart the other day. Everyone is jumping on the pico bandwagon now. Lol. That is good and bad. Good cuz some new stuff should hit the market geared towards that, bad, cuz a lot of the creativity I have seen will go out the window.


----------



## cableguy69846

This one is pretty cool.

http://www.pier1.com/Catalog/HomeAc.../Bowl-Shape-Glass-Vase----------/Default.aspx


----------



## 150EH

Pier 1 has always had good finds in the odd ball department, you could buy that $350 nano in the SnS, nobody ever keeps that thing long.


----------



## 150EH

Come on man, not this one!!!


----------



## cableguy69846

150EH said:


> Pier 1 has always had good finds in the odd ball department, you could buy that $350 nano in the SnS, nobody ever keeps that thing long.


What nano? If I spent that much on a tank, the other half would off me with no questions asked. lol.



150EH said:


> Come on man, not this one!!!


I thought about it for half a second. Lol.


----------



## 150EH

This one  was just for sale again I think it went up in price if I remember correctly it was more like $175 on the last sale and I thought that was high, but if you don't have your $hite together cleaning algae from this could be a real pain.


----------



## cableguy69846

150EH said:


> This one  was just for sale again I think it went up in price if I remember correctly it was more like $175 on the last sale and I thought that was high, but if you don't have your [censored][censored][censored][censored]e together cleaning algae from this could be a real pain.


Oh, that one. I was following the thread on it. It is an awesome tank, but like you said, a real pain to clean.


----------



## 150EH

Man shrimp really sleep in, I turned the light on a 9:30 and nobody moved, they all had a good spot on a plant and I think I heard one say "just 10 more minutes" now they are up and about so I guess their little journey wore them out.


----------



## cableguy69846

150EH said:


> Man shrimp really sleep in, I turned the light on a 9:30 and nobody moved, they all had a good spot on a plant and I think I heard one say "just 10 more minutes" now they are up and about so I guess their little journey wore them out.


Lol. They are in a good predator free tank, now they are going to get lazy on you.:hihi:


----------



## 150EH

It looks like one is going to die, I noticed a really whitish one in the back so I nudged it with my tweezers and it didn't move, but not being sure I tried to grab it by the tail and it took off, but it looked off balance and I'm sure it won't last long.

So far they are not interested in any food, I put in a piece of Pure Aquatics Algae Feast and nada, I would think after being in the bag for a couple of days they would be hungry but there must be something to eat in the new tank, I remove food after a bit if they don't eat but what little falls off of that may be enough to fill their tiny stomachs.


----------



## 150EH

I pulled out 2 shrimp today and it may be my fault.

The first one may have been a molt and I'm almost positive it was.

The second one is most likely what came out of the molt after I was done torturing it's soft shell.

Live and learn to leave things alone, the 3 L's


----------



## cableguy69846

150EH said:


> I pulled out 2 shrimp today and it may be my fault.
> 
> The first one may have been a molt and I'm almost positive it was.
> 
> The second one is most likely what came out of the molt after I was done torturing it's soft shell.
> 
> Live and learn to leave things alone, the 3 L's


It happens man. Sorry to hear it though.


----------



## 150EH

Yeah, a newbie with shrimp only and I should have known better living on the Chesapeake. I know how much energy it takes to molt and crabs barely have any meat/muscle left after a molt as it zaps every ounce of energy. Then I tried to pick it out thinking it had died and that was probably enough to do it in. From here out me no touch.

I was really suprised of the current in that little tank, the molted shell got in the flow and took off all over the tank.

I think I'll name this tank 'The Red Mile'


----------



## cableguy69846

150EH said:


> Yeah, a newbie with shrimp only and I should have known better living on the Chesapeake. I know how much energy it takes to molt and crabs barely have any meat/muscle left after a molt as it zaps every ounce of energy. Then I tried to pick it out thinking it had died and that was probably enough to do it in. From here out me no touch.
> 
> I was really suprised of the current in that little tank, the molted shell got in the flow and took off all over the tank.
> 
> I think I'll name this tank 'The Red Mile'


I usually just leave the molts in. If they are anything like lizards, there are a lot of vitamins in the shells. Not really sure though. I know I very rarely see any for long after they molt.


----------



## Ozydego

Yeah, no need to take out the molts, they give back some of the nutrients for the shrimp to produce the shell as they breakdown... No harm unless you hate having junk around...


----------



## 150EH

Things seem to be going down hill, this morning the good news is there was another molt, but 2 dead shrimp laying on their sides next to it but I'm going to leave them alone for now. I realize that if all these juveniles were about to molt that the stress of the trip is enough to kill them paired up with a molt so I'm hoping that's it, water rest have come back really good & clean but I have no test for ammonia but I fairly certain there is none.

So 17 shrimp and counting, I hope there are no more.


----------



## cableguy69846

150EH said:


> Things seem to be going down hill, this morning the good news is there was another molt, but 2 dead shrimp laying on their sides next to it but I'm going to leave them alone for now. I realize that if all these juveniles were about to molt that the stress of the trip is enough to kill them paired up with a molt so I'm hoping that's it, water rest have come back really good & clean but I have no test for ammonia but I fairly certain there is none.
> 
> So 17 shrimp and counting, I hope there are no more.


Take out the dead shrimp, but leave the molts. And there is a way to test for ammonia without a test. Involves some paper and the color of the paper after you dip it in water. Maybe something worth looking into. Or just buy an ammonia test kit.:hihi:


----------



## 150EH

I think they were all ready to molt, found another molt since and saw a couple eating today so maybe the tide will turn.

I'll try to check in to the ammonia test.


----------



## cableguy69846

150EH said:


> I think they were all ready to molt, found another molt since and saw a couple eating today so maybe the tide will turn.
> 
> I'll try to check in to the ammonia test.


Just had another thought. While this tank may have cycled and shirmp add a small bioload one at a time, adding 20 at once, may have caused a mini cycle? Not really sure, and maybe the shrimp gurus can chime in here, but it would make a bit of sense.


----------



## 150EH

that's possible Cable or I didn't wait long enough but I think I might do a small water change tonight, I think there is something wrong. I added bio media and filter mulm from my 2217 but it may not been enough, but they are not very active.


----------



## cableguy69846

150EH said:


> that's possible Cable or I didn't wait long enough but I think I might do a small water change tonight, I think there is something wrong. I added bio media and filter mulm from my 2217 but it may not been enough, but they are not very active.


A water change may not be a bad idea. You really need a way to watch ammonia though. It can appear even when the other stuff has not come up yet.

I would suggest a 10 - 20% water change. Not too much more than that. You want to try to let it cycle, but at the same time, clean the water a bit. (Why am I telling you all this? I am sure you know already.:hihi

On another note, that tank looks great. The only thing I would suggest is to keep the stem plants on one side, and leave the other side to the crypts. Or gather them around the filter intake and heater to hide it. Maybe put the crypts on the other side?


----------



## 150EH

Cable it's been since 2004 for my last cycled tank so fire away.

I just did a 5% water change into a 16 ounce cup, I had a filter I won for a larger HOB and it also had carbon in it, so I cut it to fit and slid it in behind my sponge. Right away they got more active and were swiming to the new water as it entered, that's pretty common my fish do the same. A little fresh water and carbon can't hurt or we will see in the morning.

Yeah I was thinking the same thing on the plants but for now I'm just chucking in extra stuff.


----------



## 150EH

That definately helped, they are way more active so something was bothering them, I've got one more dead one too but that's what got me moving I saw it having a fit like a little spring, 16 now.


----------



## cableguy69846

150EH said:


> Cable it's been since 2004 for my last cycled tank so fire away.
> 
> I just did a 5% water change into a 16 ounce cup, I had a filter I won for a larger HOB and it also had carbon in it, so I cut it to fit and slid it in behind my sponge. Right away they got more active and were swiming to the new water as it entered, that's pretty common my fish do the same. A little fresh water and carbon can't hurt or we will see in the morning.
> 
> Yeah I was thinking the same thing on the plants but for now I'm just chucking in extra stuff.


The carbon will help a bit. I would also suggest some purigen or whatever it is that takes the ammonia out of the water. Maybe running a bit of that will help. They probably also thought you were adding food to the tank as well. But they could have been going towards the cleaner water, no way to really tell.

Don't wait too long to scape it, or you will be ticking off the shrimp again.roud:


----------



## 150EH

The Carbon should do the same thing as Purgen, I fed them earlier and I did see one or 2 eat but they didn't come running, after a couple hours I remove the food or the main part a couple of crumbs do remain but not much. I'm going to keep a closer eye on them but those couple measures should help.

I think I'll take all the stems from the right and move them over in front of the filter to hide every thing and move the Crypt to the right, I'll add more S. porto velho up front but I might have to wait for a club meeting.


----------



## madness

Toss in floaters temporarily.

Seems to help.

I wouldn't worry too much unless something is really wrong with your water.

Obviously you don't want any losses but I have noticed that if the water is a little bit bad it will just sort of thin the herd - there seems to be a big difference between the hardiest of the shrimp and the weakest. You get a few deaths and think "oh no, they are all going to die" but they usually don't.


----------



## cableguy69846

150EH said:


> The Carbon should do the same thing as Purgen, I fed them earlier and I did see one or 2 eat but they didn't come running, after a couple hours I remove the food or the main part a couple of crumbs do remain but not much. I'm going to keep a closer eye on them but those couple measures should help.
> 
> I think I'll take all the stems from the right and move them over in front of the filter to hide every thing and move the Crypt to the right, I'll add more S. porto velho up front but I might have to wait for a club meeting.


I think it will look much better that way. And hiding all the equipment will add to the minimalistic look you are going for equipment wise.



madness said:


> Toss in floaters temporarily.
> 
> Seems to help.
> 
> I wouldn't worry too much unless something is really wrong with your water.
> 
> Obviously you don't want any losses but I have noticed that if the water is a little bit bad it will just sort of thin the herd - there seems to be a big difference between the hardiest of the shrimp and the weakest. You get a few deaths and think "oh no, they are all going to die" but they usually don't.


+1 on the floaters if you have any. And helping Darwin along may not be bad in the long run. Sounds terrible, I know, but it may help to have the more hardy ones survive and breed as opposed to the "princesses" reproducing.


----------



## diwu13

Have you fed the shrimp anything after introducing them? The filter mulm should have been enough for only 20 RCS, though, this is 2.5g we're talking about. Mini cycle seems possible but it seems a lot of the shrimp died after molting?


----------



## 150EH

Yeah I put food in every day, Hikari Algae wafers pieces and after a couple hours I remove anything uneaten, today a couple ate but most are on the filter foam, plants, and driftwood just cleaning house, the Cherry's in my community tank never eat.

They haven't wanted food really and I asked the seller what he fed and it was Hikari Algae wafers, so...

They seem a lot better after the little water change and Carbon, they are more active. I'll play it buy ear but I'll do more water changes if needed and I have more carbon too. I'm not freak'n out or anything but just making sure I'm doing all I can to help them survive and I think they will, BTW 16 is still kick'n but won't make it.


----------



## cableguy69846

150EH said:


> Yeah I put food in every day, Hikari Algae wafers pieces and after a couple hours I remove anything uneaten, today a couple ate but most are on the filter foam, plants, and driftwood just cleaning house, the Cherry's in my community tank never eat.


There must be some stuff that came over from the other tank then. Once that is gone, they will go after the wafer.


----------



## diwu13

150EH said:


> Yeah I put food in every day, Hikari Algae wafers pieces and after a couple hours I remove anything uneaten, today a couple ate but most are on the filter foam, plants, and driftwood just cleaning house, the Cherry's in my community tank never eat.
> 
> They haven't wanted food really and I asked the seller what he fed and it was Hikari Algae wafers, so...
> 
> They seem a lot better after the little water change and Carbon, they are more active. I'll play it buy ear but I'll do more water changes if needed and I have more carbon too. I'm not freak'n out or anything but just making sure I'm doing all I can to help them survive and I think they will, BTW 16 is still kick'n but won't make it.


So shrimp alone won't have any bioload. However, once you start feeding them there is an issue where you could cause a mini cycle as the food have nearly as much bioload as a fish. I think that's the issue you had that may have killed off some of your shrimp. RCS can go for at least 3 or 4 days just munching on goodies in your tank. So I would lay off the food during this time and make sure the tank cycles correctly!


----------



## 150EH

I'm not leaving the food in too long and I use a 50 ml syringe and a piece of CO2 tubing to remove any of the wafer that is un-eaten and softens, so the tank shouldn't be getting much bio load. But I agree there is plenty to eat in the tank, all the plants are form an established tank and covered with goodies, the intake filter foam, and the DW are all hot spots, and at the same time I like to throw something in to gauge there health and today was the fisrt time a couple ate and the first one came right away so that is a good sign.


----------



## diwu13

Hm... from the symptoms you discussed it really does sound like a mini cycle though. But you haven't left in the food long either, maybe that little time could have caused enough nitrate to accumulate. Glad they are starting to eat the food. A good way to tell if they are hungry is look at how much poop they have :X! If their insides aren't completely filled it means they are hungry.


----------



## 150EH

I check nitrites (0) and nitrates daily (1 or 2) but very low, I'll change a little more water tomorrow but the carbon should help too, might just be shrimp that were stressed from the molt/travel, etc.


----------



## madness

I have never had shrimp that wanted to eat the first day. Some even took a couple of days before they started eating.

I would skip a day here or there in terms of feeding or possibly even try every other day feeding once the tank is more established.

If they were starving they would attack the food you have offered.

Since they aren't going bonkers for the food then all the food does is pollute the water a bit. Not a big deal normally but with a new tank that you don't have settled in yet it isn't likely to help the stability much.

BTW, mine seem to love hikari algae wafers.


----------



## 150EH

I think it was a case of both, new shrimp are so worried about the surroundings they don't want to eat not to mention the stress of travel, etc. and if the water your in is making you so sick your dying then food in not first on the list. This morning they are eating and still more active than pre carbon/water change, so I'll do another small water change tonight around the same time and it was only 5% so it won't upset the balance but will introduce enough fresh water that they can breathe. I let the carbon go 5 to 7 days before I replace it and at my next trip to the LFS I want to get some that is easy to handle.

I also want to get some plants I can blanch and introduce like spinach, etc. so I don't have to worry about removal of excess food but I will continue with a variety that includes algae wafers.


----------



## diwu13

Instead of buying more carbon consider purigen. I've been only using carbon and know that purigen works much better. It's even renewable!


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## 150EH

I've used it before and it does work good but with this tiny tank I'd rather sling a little carbon in the trash, but it all depends on what they have and how much it costs.

Theses shrimp are really eating today and they are molting like crazy, everytime I look in the tank there is a new molt. So far so good and hopefully I have seen the end of any losses for now.


----------



## Ozydego

so 16 out of 20 with weekend shipping in the winter.... not a bad ratio...


----------



## 150EH

Unless your a shrimp!


----------



## 150EH

Well I'm now a serial killer, I think I might have 3 or 4 shrimp left, this morning I had about 8 molts and as many dead shrimp, they were just all over the place. I did a 56 ounce water change which is about 18% and I dumped all the carbon I have into a filter bag, gave it a rinse and stuck it in the filter.

There has to be ammonia in the water and it is either causing the molts and or killing the shrimp once their tender shell is exposed to the ammonia, so I don't know what else to do.


----------



## diwu13

Hm... this is very peculiar. I would hold off on buying some more RCS for now. Throw in some floating plants as those are great at absorbing ammonia and nitrites, and buy some ghost shrimp ($.10 each or something). See if those survive a week, if they do. Chuck/feed those and go back to RCS.


----------



## 150EH

Yeah I'll wait until after January 15th or longer before adding anything else if the tank is OK by then, I haven't cycled a tank in a long time and jumped the gun after reading that Stratum didn't give an ammonia spike like AS I thought I would be OK adding some bio material from another tank but I should have waited much longer to add livestock.

I have 4 shrimp left to the best of my knowledge and I have been doing a 15 to 18% water change daily to help them survive, they have had very little interest in food and I doubt they will survive. I awoke to the noise of the filter being stopped by carbon, the mesh bag got near the impeller and carbon was released until it clogged the motor, so I was cleaning a filter a 6 am, but with the little lives in the balance I couldn't crawl back into bed without a properly working filter. Without the carbon they may be even more doomed but the LFS is too far and I'm out of cash, so it is what it is.

On a separate note the plants are growing well so anything that does get converted it used right away, the Mayaca was floating across the surface and almost white from lack of Fe, so I pruned and planted the tops but have no intention of adding any Fe.


----------



## 150EH

I picked up an API Ammonia Test Kit today, and the test came back at zero ammonia, but I've been removing food and I think there are only 2 shrimp left so there's not much bio load. 

The plants are growing fine in the stratum and you can see how white the Mayaca is so there is very little Fe in stratum.


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## 150EH

Man I am extremely efficient at killing shrimp, last night I did a ammonia test and it looked like it was 0.25 ppm so I did an 18% water change but I think after the second test I realized the water had been at zero ppm of ammonia all along. So this morning there were 2 molts and 2 dead shrimp, so I thought those were the last 2 and then I realized there were 2 more and they seemed fine and even slightly active. I waited all day to remove the molts, dead shrimp, and un-eaten algae wafer, just to make sure they were not extremely exhausted after getting free from the old shell, no such luck and they were dead.

So no more water changes, there must be something in it that triggers the molt and/or kills the shrimp or my timing is just extremely bad.


----------



## cableguy69846

150EH said:


> Man I am extremely efficient at killing shrimp, last night I did a ammonia test and it looked like it was 0.25 ppm so I did an 18% water change but I think after the second test I realized the water had been at zero ppm of ammonia all along. So this morning there were 2 molts and 2 dead shrimp, so I thought those were the last 2 and then I realized there were 2 more and they seemed fine and even slightly active. I waited all day to remove the molts, dead shrimp, and un-eaten algae wafer, just to make sure they were not extremely exhausted after getting free from the old shell, no such luck and they were dead.
> 
> So no more water changes, there must be something in it that triggers the molt and/or kills the shrimp or my timing is just extremely bad.


Have you been aging your water at all for the water changes? In that small tank it could be the difference in the parameters from the tap and tank (duh, why didn't I think of this sooner). You may want to check the water out of your tap and see what everything reads at.


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## 150EH

I have well water so I don't need to worry about Chlorine and all the other parameters are good as far as I know, unless there is something in it we can not test for like arsenic, etc. I guess I need to get my butt in gear and setup the RO/DI system still sitting in the box, I never even looked at it.

The Mayaca was getting really white from a lack of Fe so I dosed a little iron, 1/2 of a ml was a full dose for a 2.5 gallon tank.


----------



## cableguy69846

150EH said:


> I have well water so I don't need to worry about Chlorine and all the other parameters are good as far as I know, unless there is something in it we can not test for like arsenic, etc. I guess I need to get my butt in gear and setup the RO/DI system still sitting in the box, I never even looked at it.
> 
> The Mayaca was getting really white from a lack of Fe so I dosed a little iron, 1/2 of a ml was a full dose for a 2.5 gallon tank.


Is the water maybe too hard for them? You may need a water softener, but I think your RO/DI unit will solve most of your problems. Just remember that you will have to add some necessary nutrients to the water for the shrimp when you switch to the RO/DI water.


----------



## 150EH

kH 2.24, gH 0, maybe I should add some gH booster?


----------



## diwu13

Yea. kH is ok being around zero, not really sure what that does for shrimp. But there has to be some GH or they won't be able to molt correctly. That may have been your problem all along?


----------



## Alyssa

Check for copper ... that will kill off shrimpies fast too.

You said one looked cloudy, could be bacterial too - I just lost most of one colony this past week, hoping to pull out some survivors with treating with maracyn 2 ... but not holding out much hope.

Really good idea to get all the basic tests for your water, and maybe check the TDS as well?


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## 150EH

I don't know what I've been thinking but I've got Cherry's and Amano's in my other tank so it's not the water it's just coincidence that this happened, the tank just isn't cycled properly.


----------



## cableguy69846

150EH said:


> I don't know what I've been thinking but I've got Cherry's and Amano's in my other tank so it's not the water it's just coincidence that this happened, the tank just isn't cycled properly.


Maybe there is something in the tank that none of us has thought to check out yet?


----------



## 150EH

I think it's just New Tank Syndrome and a impatient old man that hasn't learned a thing in 52 years, but it's official there is no life in my nano and the last Cherry was pulled out late last night, the pond snails seem to be fine. I'll try again in a while and I now have a Ammonia test kit to check and I'll get some RO ready to go.

The plants a growing nicely and are even pearling without C02, Crypts, H.pinnatifida, Najas, and S.porto velho all have new leaves and the Mayaca is growing like crazy plus it's turning white as it uses all the Fe in the soil. I trimmed and did a little re-scaping after this photo and there is a C. affinis in the back that was an auction buy that had no roots at all, I just moved it to the front and it has 2 new leaves and 2 new roots about an inch long.









Pearls without C02, not too shabby. They must be fueled by dead Cherry's.








You can see some of the munched on growth near the bottom and above is all new.


----------



## DesmondTheMoonBear

Bummer, hope you have more luck next time. I had my cherries in an uncycled, untested, cruddy neglected tank with no water changes for 4 months. I didn't even bother acclimating them. Had my first berry within a week and they bred and grew great until insect larvae destroyed them.


----------



## Geniusdudekiran

150EH said:


>


What is this plant? It's beautiful!


----------



## 150EH

Geniusdudekiran said:


> What is this plant? It's beautiful!


Najas sp. 'Roraima' is a nice delicate plant for a small tank, the plant in the photo is around 2 inches tall but it is nice, hopefully it will get some red color in this tank and it is doing well so far.


----------



## JEden8

Love the setup! Are you doing any fertilizing for this or any fertilizer tabs? Just curious as I haven't had the best of luck with my 3 gallon.


----------



## Robotponys

Update?


----------



## 150EH

JEden8 said:


> Love the setup! Are you doing any fertilizing for this or any fertilizer tabs? Just curious as I haven't had the best of luck with my 3 gallon.


Very little but about once a month with a whopping 3 ml of macro solution, 2 ml of Micro solution, and 1.5 ml of Fe, I have solution made at standard EI amounts but the Fluval Stratum is almost good enough for a low tech tank.



Robotponys said:


> Update?


Yeah sorry about that but I killed off my original 20 RCS by not having the tank properly cycled, then I used it as a hospital tank for a FW Flounder with Saprolegnia and right behind him was a Rummynose Tetra with Pop Eye. 

But we are having a club meeting this Saturday and getting a group order from Invertebrates by Msjinkzd, I'm getting 10 Sakura Fire Red Cherry Shrimp, unfortunately they are all juveniles but she has quoted on her site (very high grade) and I trust Rachael 100% so I'm sure they will grow to be beautiful, lets just hope I get at least I don't get all of one sex.

The tank looks just about the same and I will update again after I get my new shrimp. I did remove the Najas but I'll put some back in later and I trimmed hard but I cut the tread on the Fissidens by accident and it was not attached good and some fell off, but it will bounce back. But for the clean I removed all the plants and most of them had roots of 2 or 3 inches so I had to trim the roots too.


----------



## 150EH

I just returned from the club meeting and got my new Fire Red Cherry shrimp from Rachael, I ordered 10 but she gave me 18 by accident but some were super small, take a look.

Congo line!









Juvinile!









I also added a couple stems of Lysimachia nummularia v. 'aurea'


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## cableguy69846

Awesome looking shrimp. And if they are from her, they will be beastly.:icon_smil


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## orchidman

Nice shrimp


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## 150EH

Thanks guys I'm happy to have them in the tank!


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## 150EH

The shrimp have definitely found a home this time and started eating right away, I put in a small piece of an Algae Wafer this afternoon and they are like little wood chippers, it was so cool and something I've never witnessed before.

The adults are walking around just checking stuff out but I don't see any of the tiny little juveniles?

Also I used a RedSea Nano filter with some Eheim cocoa puffs for bacteria colonies and a course black sponge over the intake as well as in the media compartment and a small bag or Marineland activated carbon that I was going to replace weekly because it's such a small amount, does this sound ok for Cherries?


----------



## cableguy69846

150EH said:


> The shrimp have definitely found a home this time and started eating right away, I put in a small piece of an Algae Wafer this afternoon and they are like little wood chippers, it was so cool and something I've never witnessed before.
> 
> The adults are walking around just checking stuff out but I don't see any of the tiny little juveniles?
> 
> Also I used a RedSea Nano filter with some Eheim cocoa puffs for bacteria colonies and a course black sponge over the intake as well as in the media compartment and a small bag or Marineland activated carbon that I was going to replace weekly because it's such a small amount, does this sound ok for Cherries?


Glad to hear they are settling in for you. The filter may be overkill. I don't think I have ever used carbon in my shrimp tank.


----------



## 150EH

Well I just want to make sure the water stays clean and we are talking about such small amounts, like 20 cocoa puffs and 1.5 teaspoons of carbon. I thought after I ran out of carbon I might used Purigen because it will last longer, or at least I think it will.


----------



## cableguy69846

150EH said:


> Well I just want to make sure the water stays clean and we are talking about such small amounts, like 20 cocoa puffs and 1.5 teaspoons of carbon. I thought after I ran out of carbon I might used Purigen because it will last longer, or at least I think it will.


Sponges and cocoa puffs work better than all the chemical stuff in my honest opinion. This might be experiment worthy though.:icon_smil And if you are going to be fertilizing, the carbon may take out the ferts before the plants have a chance to use them.


----------



## 150EH

No ferts here, only whats needed to clear any deficiencies which has been once a month so far. 

Now I wondering how often to feed them, both days I gave them a piece of Hikari Algae Wafer about the size of a RCS body and both days they have ate every piece of it but I don't want to get the substrate cluttered up with un-eaten food either, any thoughts.

Food for 6 adults and 12 juveniles?


----------



## Ozydego

I have placed pieces of algae wafer in the bowl every other day, if I ever see left over after a few hours like 4-6, I suck it out and use a smaller piece next time... I also look at the shrimp bodies and if I dont see a poop trail on most of them, I use a bit bigger piece... my population is always in flux, so my feeding does change... I am starting to get a really good balance though... the size I use is like a piece or two of gravel substrate sized chunks...

The chunks are in the API test tube to the right in this pic if that helps with size... I have anywhere from 20-30 juvies and 4-8 adults

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g212/Ozydego/Walstad%20Bowl/IMG_0197.jpg


----------



## 150EH

Thanks for the reply, I didn't check there bodies but the have to be full of poo but the little buggers are in the feeding area waiting for something.


----------



## cableguy69846

150EH said:


> No ferts here, only whats needed to clear any deficiencies which has been once a month so far.
> 
> Now I wondering how often to feed them, both days I gave them a piece of Hikari Algae Wafer about the size of a RCS body and both days they have ate every piece of it but I don't want to get the substrate cluttered up with un-eaten food either, any thoughts.
> 
> Food for 6 adults and 12 juveniles?


I usually feed a half an algae wafer every other day. I should watch a little closer to see if they are looking for food before then or if they need more. But that is what I do for now.


----------



## 150EH

Well I didn't feed them today and I'm sure that's fine.


----------



## Ozydego

Yeah, I found that if I feed them every day then they are not swarming the chunk and then it sits and rots... EOD and they finish it


----------



## 150EH

So far I'm doing good and today the six adults ate the whole piece in 30 minutes or less bu I rarely see a juvenile around the dinner table.


----------



## 150EH

*Time to eat!*

















These shrimp are tiny yet still red.


----------



## 150EH

I forgot to mention I added some Creeping Jenny and wow, this stuff is like a night light. I also added a couple pieces of the Sword 'vesuvius' from a runner in another tank.









And a FTS, this scape really needs some direction


----------



## cableguy69846

The shrimp look good. And, I think you should leave the scape how it is. It looks natural.roud:


----------



## 150EH

I'm not going to do anything drastic but the nano's at the club meeting did inspire me to use my imagination and put a little more effort into it. When I get the Metaframe I'm going to do a Amano Nature Scape and try the grinding/DSM for Fissidens on rocks/wood with a lot of small plants mixed and maybe a white sand path, etc. I want to see if I'm capable.

I have a shrimp on its back today and it looks as if it has molted but I'm not sure how they behave after a molt, I could imagine that some of the contorting was it trying to get free of the old shell and exhausted they may just lay there and try to rebuild some strength and let their limbs and body harden up, I though they may also play dead so predators don't pick at them??

They have been doing so much better than the last batch and have eaten 3 times, all the babies seem fine when I see one anyway, I hope I'm just paranoid.


----------



## 150EH

No need to reply he's back on his feet after a couple hours on his back, I know the molt is a very high stress process, here we eat Blue Crabs all summer and we call crabs that just molted "paper shells" and it takes so much energy to molt and make a new shell that they loose all their muscle mass and they are also watery and not very tastey either.


----------



## 150EH

Well I did have a second molt yesterday and the shrimp was dead this morning and had been partly cannibalized, so I guess a good rule of thumb would be to always feed when you see a molt, I had started feeding every other day but I guess they were hungry.


----------



## Eldachleich

This was a fascinating read. One of my shrimps just died of a molt in my nano..
But im sort of clueless on why..
Anyhow.. Awesome little tank!! I'm so jealous of your creeping jenny. I can't get it to thrive no matter what I do..


----------



## 150EH

Eldachleich said:


> This was a fascinating read. One of my shrimps just died of a molt in my nano..
> But im sort of clueless on why..
> Anyhow.. Awesome little tank!! I'm so jealous of your creeping jenny. I can't get it to thrive no matter what I do..


Well I've only had it a week, so the jury is still out on that one, but it appears to be fine so far. I know the first batch it may have been ammonia although my test kit never seem to register any but the are so at risk with no shell that burn form ammonia might put them over the edge after an already difficult period of the molt. It sucks too, because I was so happy that this batch ate at all and then a successful molt but the second one didn't make it, I try harder.


----------



## Ozydego

I would think they might eat the dead even if they were not hungry... it would pollute the environment, so it may be genetic to take care of the dead.... I guess it would be an issue if they killed the moltee, but I wouldnt worry about them cleaning up


----------



## 150EH

The tank is so small there is no room for it to absorb any decaying matter, so I do like to remove it quickly and I do the same with any un-eaten food.

I had another dead adult this morning so I replaced the carbon in the filter and topped off the tank with fresh water after some evaporation. I'm not really sure why I'm having any deaths unless it's from small ammonia spikes but I have never detected one but there should be sufficient nitrifying bacteria on the Eheim cocoa puffs, some poret foam I use in the filter and some poret foam covering the intake, so I'm not sure.

I did finally break out the RO/DI unit yesterday to start thinking about the install and maybe it is my water.


----------



## 150EH

Well all my shrimp are dead again and the same thing happened, after they molt and have the soft flesh exposed they die. I think it's my kH and I won't try again until I get my RO/DI unit setup and I can swap out all the old tap water for water that's perfect with no contaminates.


----------



## FisheriesOmen

I think you may have jumped the gun or bit the bullet (or both) with adding shrimp so soon. I would say get plants established in the tank and then add 1 shrimp at a time till you have a male/female pair and let them breed, this way you won't overload the tank(which I am thinking is the problem).


----------



## cableguy69846

150EH said:


> Well all my shrimp are dead again and the same thing happened, after they molt and have the soft flesh exposed they die. I think it's my kH and I won't try again until I get my RO/DI unit setup and I can swap out all the old tap water for water that's perfect with no contaminates.


Sorry to hear that man. Hope it works out better for you in the future.


----------



## 150EH

cableguy69846 said:


> Sorry to hear that man. Hope it works out better for you in the future.


Thanks Cable and the future has arrived. I've got some Taiwan Fire Red Cherry Shrimp coming from Chad and he has to order some Kordon breather bags first so it may take a little time and I need some. I was getting tired of the fast evaporation from the tank so I bought a thin piece of plexi glass but it warped with one side being warm and the other side cool, so I purchase some brass angle and stainless hardware, I would like to find some brass acorn nuts to finish it off but it looks OK. I also removed the Fluval Stratum and put in some ADA Amazonian and I removed all the plants and gave them a rinse because I had some sort of algae bloom, bloom blobs of goo. The plant growth was also poor with the Stratum and I tried Osmocote tabs but the nitrates were really high, there's just not enough water for mistakes. 

I also has 2 large pieces of Cholla I'm boiling and I will place them so I can crank the filter to high without moving the substrate, I also fixed the background after I saw these photos. I'll post more as it comes together and we have a club meeting this weekend so it may be totally different by Monday.


----------



## 150EH

I added the accorn nuts and the Cholla and I like the warm tone it gives the tank, oh I also removed the heater and there is no condensation on the lid now. The only thing left is some new plants and the shrimp.


----------



## GMYukonon24s

I like the cholla wood. Can't wait till the plants fill in more.


----------



## 150EH

Thanks, I just threw the old plants back in the tank hoping that they might rebound. We had a club meeting today in PA at That Pet Place and I got some Christmas moss and Subwassertang for this tank.


----------



## Ben.

You've made very good progress 150! are your cherries breeding well?


----------



## 150EH

Ben. said:


> You've made very good progress 150! are your cherries breeding well?


No, none have survived past thier first molt in this nano tank but I'm using RO water now so I'm hoping what ever did them in has been removed via the RO membrane.


----------



## jeremyTR

Dang man, you've had some tough luck with your shrimp!

How did you go about cycling your tank when you first set it up any how?


----------



## 150EH

I added the Christmas moss and Subwassertang today and it really makes the tank look dark so I'm not sure if I like it, but I will let in grow in for a couple of months. I made the moss wall from green plastic mess from Micheal's and I cut out every other section so I could pull some moss through the hole with a tool I made from a paper clip, like a crochet needle. Excuse the poor photo of the tank.


----------



## 150EH

I'm really shocked by the ammonia leached by the AS, it tested 8 ppm or higher with an API kit, I did 2 x 1 gallon water changes and put 2 teaspoons of carbon into my nano filter?


----------



## 150EH

jeremyTR said:


> Dang man, you've had some tough luck with your shrimp!
> 
> How did you go about cycling your tank when you first set it up any how?


I let is sit planted for 2 or 3 weeks but the Fluval substrate doesn't leach anything so it tested good, so I added some shrimp and killed them all. Then I ussed the tank for a month on a sick flounder, then another month on a sick Rummy, then I waited a month before trying more shrimp but they were eating well but after every molt would die like from ammonia burn but the tank was testing clean.

Update: all the water changes and carbon and the ammonia is still over 8 ppm, with a nitrite kicker of 1.0, woo whoo.


----------



## 150EH

Sorry, the last FST was really bad. After 2 80% water cahnges today the ammonia is down to 0.50 ppm, AS is crazy stuff!


----------



## 150EH

*Cycling Aqua Soil!*

I cleaned and added AS to this tank last Friday the 18th, the ammonia started at over 8 ppm and that is as high as my test kit measures, after doing 2 x 80% water changes per day (none on Saturday) and one 80% water change this morning the ammonia level is 0 ppm. I don't know if it will stay this way so I test it daily but if I'm done it may be a new record in cycling the ammonia out of this stuff, more to come.


----------



## Ozydego

If you have a biofilter established that is strong, its not unheard of for them to convert 4ppm overnight... they could be keeping the leeching in check


----------



## 150EH

I am wooried that with a new subtrate, all new water, and a new fine filter pad that most of my bio filter may be lost, the only areas that went untouched were the glass, a large piece of poret foam, some Eheim Substrat Pro, and the interior of the filter. I am going to do a water change using water from my 150 to help build it up a little.


----------



## 150EH

It wasn't as bad as I thought, everyone said 2 weeks or longer but there was no ammonia today so I added a gallon of water from my 150 so it would have a little biofilter and a little nutrients, so it appears 4 days or less if you keep on the water change twice daily.


----------



## cableguy69846

You got AS? How do you like it so far?


----------



## 150EH

I like it, all the plants were knocking on deaths door but they have all recovered because of the AS. I think I'll have some TPFR coming from Chad next Wednesday and the water is good now with the RO unit in place so they may actually survive.


----------



## 150EH

It's a building a little mulm but new shrimp should take care of that.


----------



## cableguy69846

Looks good man. Good luck this time around.

We have the same number of posts. Just thought you should know.


----------



## 150EH

Now we do, and I've been keeping a eye on that as I creep up on ya!

I would rather the numbers stay frozen at each post, instead of a running total.

If I kill this batch of shrimp my next photo will be a broken nano laying in my front yard!

I've got the dreaded Subwassertang in the tank, some folks say it's worse than Riccia and once you have it, you always have it. I still have Riccia in the 150 I can't get rid of and I thought it was gone several times.


----------



## cableguy69846

150EH said:


> Now we do, and I've been keeping a eye on that as I creep up on ya!
> 
> *Stalker. Lol.*
> 
> I would rather the numbers stay frozen at each post, instead of a running total.
> 
> *I wonder if there is a way to hide it?*
> 
> If I kill this batch of shrimp my next photo will be a broken nano laying in my front yard!
> 
> *Lol. Just turn it into a planter or something like that.*
> 
> I've got the dreaded Subwassertang in the tank, some folks say it's worse than Riccia and once you have it, you always have it. I still have Riccia in the 150 I can't get rid of and I thought it was gone several times.
> 
> *I like the subwassertang and riccia. Just don't have the room for them anymore.*


See the bold print.:icon_smil


----------



## 150EH

I'm excited, Chad has offered to send me a mix of 8 TPFR & 8 Tangerine tigers for this tank, I did pay for a dozen of the TPFR but Chad is very generous so if you ever get a chance to buy something from him, just do it!!!

I'll post photos when they arrive, it should be Wednesday or so of this week.


----------



## 150EH

My new shrimp arrived today from Chad, his tossed in a good amount of moss and was very generous with the shrimp, I notice a molt in the baggy so I know the extra moss worked well because he was still alive. The tank is a little dirty and they were really swimming around a bit so the photos are ehhh........

After floating the bags for 30 minutes I cut off the tops and let the shrimp come out at there own pace, which was immediately for the TT and I read they are a little aggressive.









Hopefully their hungry and will clean up a little.


----------



## FisheriesOmen

looks great!


----------



## 150EH

Thanks, I hope the new occupants will clean up a little.


----------



## cableguy69846

My fingers are crossed for you, sir.


----------



## 150EH

I think it's going to be OK now my water is spotless. Chad added Flame moss and Tiawan moss in the bags, it's the flame moss that's going to be so cool.

Cable did you see the new tank in my signature? It's small but I have big plans from a stand to the lights, so take a peek.


----------



## talontsiawd

I hope the new shrimp do well. If it makes you feel any better, I have had trouble with RCS not surviving at first. However, if I can just get 1 male and 1 female to survive, I have had huge colonies of shrimp with absolutely no changes to my routine and never have deaths with the shrimp that breed in my tank. I just don't get it.


This tank is awesome. I loved the simple scape from the beginning and the top you made is just sick. My friend was a welder/fabricator and I always wanted him to make me some brushed stainless trim to cover my plastic rims. You really outdid my idea with your top. I want a small nano for misc trimmings and was thinking I would only go rimless but I may steal your idea with a twist and save myself some cash. The light fixture is awesome as well and I can see by your progression that it's doing it's job as well.


----------



## 150EH

Thanks for the nice comments. The top was not very hard to do if you can find the angled brass at the hardware or craft store. I live near the Chesapeake and our water has a lot of iron, sulphur, and other nasty stuff that no testing kit will detect and it's well water so not even the county has any type of test results, but I think the RO/DI unit has my back on water quality now.


----------



## talontsiawd

150EH said:


> Thanks for the nice comments. The top was not very hard to do if you can find the angled brass at the hardware or craft store. I live near the Chesapeake and our water has a lot of iron, sulphur, and other nasty stuff that no testing kit will detect and it's well water so not even the county has any type of test results, but I think the RO/DI unit has my back on water quality now.


Yeah, I know the angled brass, I just would have never thought of bracing the acrylic like that, much less the acorn nuts. It's the design, not the idea that I like so much. Really makes a 2 gallon look much more "high end", in a "i don't know the term for that era but it's not art deco" way lol.


----------



## 150EH

It's called 'Popeye Nautical' and I learned it from watching too many cartoons as a kid, well until I was 26 or so.


----------



## 150EH

Well I've had my first death in the tank already, well not really in the tank as I found a TT laying dried up in the center of the tank lid this morning, even if I remove the driftwood they could still climb out on the moss wall so I'm not sure what to do but if it happens again I'll remove it.

The good news is there was a molt in the tank and no dead shrimp and that is what was happening before, so the water must be better.


----------



## acitydweller

hey 150,

Tigers have a tighter water parameter range than the neos so based on the lowest common denominator try to get the tank water here:

PH: 7-7.4
KH: 4-8
GH: 6-10
TDS: 100-180
Temps 64-73.4

If you see deaths, test the water to see if any of the above is lacking or over the limit. These parameters will ensure your Tigers and TPFRs live long, happy lives with many offspring ahead. GL!


----------



## 150EH

I'm close to 6 on the gH but only 1 or 2 at the kH and I'm good on the rest, but they all seem to be doing fine except the one that crawled out.

The tank needs a little cleaning but I cramed the Flame moss in to the right and the Taiwan moss to the left back by the filter intake. I rarely see more than 3 or 4 shrimp out at a time, they really like being in the Cholla so hopefully they are busy making babies.


----------



## cableguy69846

Sorry to hear about the loss. Glad to see these are doing better for you though.

Maybe you are like me. Can't keep the easy ones alive, but the harder ones are cake. Lol.


----------



## 150EH

The must have heard the tank was a death trap and they are now jumping to their deaths.


----------



## cableguy69846

150EH said:


> The must have heard the tank was a death trap and they are now jumping to their deaths.


Maybe it is the Ghosts of Shrimps Past freaking them out a bit. :hihi:


----------



## 150EH

Yeah I spotted it this morning!!!


----------



## cableguy69846

150EH said:


> Yeah I spotted it this morning!!!


:hihi:roud:


----------



## 150EH

Well it's been eight days and one Tangerine Tiger pasted because he crawled onto the lid where it's nice and dry, go figure, and I've lost 2 of the Taiwan painted fire reds. So out of 16, 13 are still kicking after 8 days and I think they are going to make it. I'm mostly following the routine of a fellow GWAPA member and she only feeds her shrimp once per week and does a 10% water change weekly, which is a quart of water for this tank so it's really easy.

Now if they would just get frisky and make little shrimp I'd be so happy!


----------



## cableguy69846

150EH said:


> Well it's been eight days and one Tangerine Tiger pasted because he crawled onto the lid where it's nice and dry, go figure, and I've lost 2 of the Taiwan painted fire reds. So out of 16, 13 are still kicking after 8 days and I think they are going to make it. I'm mostly following the routine of a fellow GWAPA member and she only feeds her shrimp once per week and does a 10% water change weekly, which is a quart of water for this tank so it's really easy.
> 
> Now if they would just get frisky and make little shrimp I'd be so happy!


Got any Barry White? I think Barry Manilow would work too. Maybe you just gotta set the mood.


----------



## 150EH

You'll never find.... another shrimp like mine.....


----------



## cableguy69846

150EH said:


> You'll never find.... another shrimp like mine.....


Lol. That should get em goin. :hihi:


----------



## deleted_user_17

Subscribing to this interesting thread and I have one question, where did you buy the plastic mesh for the moss wall?

Tank looks great by the way


----------



## cableguy69846

Jedi_Pizza said:


> Subscribing to this interesting thread and I have one question, where did you buy the plastic mesh for the moss wall?
> 
> Tank looks great by the way


Most craft stores should carry it. It is sometimes referred to as Plastic Canvas. Pretty sure Wal-Mart carries it in their craft section.


----------



## 150EH

*FTS Update!*

The tank has rebounded nicely and the plants have improved greatly with the AS substrate and better yet I have live shrimp molting and surviving to talk about it, if you look hard you'll find 7 shrimp in this photo.


----------



## cableguy69846

Go figure. The more demanding ones are the ones you have success with. Lol.


----------



## deleted_user_17

cableguy69846 said:


> Most craft stores should carry it. It is sometimes referred to as Plastic Canvas. Pretty sure Wal-Mart carries it in their craft section.


Cheers  I was reading another thread on hear last night and ordered some gutter guard. I'll use this to make some carpet for the floor of my tank, but I might get this stuff for covering rocks and wood.

##

That's great news about the tank  I can only see 5. *looks again*


----------



## 150EH

I'm sorry I missed that question, I got that from Micheals craft store and they had several colors but I thought green would be hidden fastest, do they have Micheals in the UK?


----------



## deleted_user_17

No they don't, but I should be able to find it online. Nice one


----------



## 150EH

15 days and all is well, for most people this is no big deal but I'm the shrimp killer so it's a new record in this tank. I never realized just how delicate a nano systems can be with a small amount of water any mistake can be very costly but my new routine is paying off.


----------



## cableguy69846

150EH said:


> 15 days and all is well, for most people this is no big deal but I'm the shrimp killer so it's a new record in this tank. I never realized just how delicate a nano systems can be with a small amount of water any mistake can be very costly but my new routine is paying off.


Glad to hear they are doing well for you.roud:


----------



## 150EH

Thanks Cable, the little tank has really turned after using the AS, I think this may be the only substrate to use in a small tank.


----------



## 150EH

The tank has had shrimp for 3 weeks now and this is a new record, I have only feed them twice and they don't really come running when I do feed but they have picked the Cholla clean. One of our club members feeds her shrimp weekly and uses Ebita Breed Red bee shrimp food in one of those Gush containers you suction on to the glass and they are fighting for the food, so we'll see what happens. The food was a little pricey but when you think about how long 4 ounces will last it might go bad before they can eat it all.


----------



## talontsiawd

Awesome. Like I said earlier, I usually only have issues in the first week or two, then they do fine. Even with RCS, I usually loose anywhere from 1-3 (I usually buy in 5's). On my last batch, 3 died but the other two bread instantly. Unfortunately I had to get rid of them before I started my colony.

So if I were you, I would be 100% happy. Once I hit 3 weeks, I am confident everything will live a full life unless I screw something up.


----------



## 150EH

Thanks and I think the shrimp will be fine from here out, now I'm thinking a few more would be more fun to watch.


----------



## FisheriesOmen

150EH said:


> Thanks and I think the shrimp will be fine from here out, now I'm thinking a few more would be more fun to watch.


Or a few more tanks :hihi:


----------



## Unikorn

Is the fluval prefilter enough to keep sand out of an aquaclear 50 ? Im trying to find a prefilter fine enough to protect the impeller from sand on my filter. 

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## 150EH

Unikorn said:


> Is the fluval prefilter enough to keep sand out of an aquaclear 50 ? Im trying to find a prefilter fine enough to protect the impeller from sand on my filter.
> 
> Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2


I have no idea?

My shrimp really like the Ebita Breed-Red bee shrimp food, within 5 minutes there were 6 or 7 shrimp eating a small piece of food and they are still out hours later looking for scraps. Also I'm starting like this low tech nano because of the AS the plants look healthy with very slow growth and there is no real maintenance to the tank.


----------



## deleted_user_17

Looking good.

Glad the shrimps are doing well


----------



## 150EH

Thanks JP, I was just thinking how much cleaner it looked and how much better the plants were doing since the shrimp have been added.

Before, or the day they were added!









And after they have been here 3 weeks!


----------



## WallaceGrover

That's some nice growth on the crypts!


----------



## 150EH

Thanks, I thought so too for a low tech tank, the AS turned them around.


----------



## 150EH

I liked this photo and just wanted to share, I need berries.


----------



## 150EH

I have to say I still rarely see any shrimp in my tank and they mainly hide in the Cholla, but today I was putting some food in the tank and I saw this little booger on the glass and at first I didn't know it was a shrimp, it was 1/4 inch long and a light orange tint like a TT fry, how old do you think it might be? They have only been in the tank since 6-6-12 or 5 weeks so I'm thinking this guy was hatched in my tank, what's you take?










Here' my latest FTS, the plants are getting big.










Also here some of my Fissiden sp. mini growing out of the tank, I have to over expose and use a lot of fill light to see it but in person it just looks like a tiny green clump growing out of the top, real tiny.


----------



## Geniusdudekiran

Mini Fissidens? No fair!


----------



## talontsiawd

The Fissidens right there is probably a great idea, outside of the fact it looks cool. I have had a Betta in a closed top tank jump out of a gap smaller than that, the gap seemed smaller than the Betta lol. I have only kept two types of shrimp, namely RCS's and they were pretty fearless about trying to climb out of the water, never lost any but I would see them pop there heads out where my heater was and try to climb up a branch that stuck out, over and over, as if they had to relearn the post water line was a bad place to be lol. I don't know about other shrimp.


Have you thought about a carpet? I think you could do Glosso. It likely won't really spread much on it's own in this setup but you can train it through trimming. You could also do DHG and trim it down, or some Belem (that will likely not be thick but could still be interesting). Just a thought.


----------



## 150EH

Even though it's a low tech tank most plants I've tried grow really good in here so I could try those but I really don't want to trim anything, I had one TT walk out and die but no other shrimp have and that was like the first night after they arrived. If there is fry they are in the Cholla doing their thing but it's so strange they have gone from care free to wanting the protection of the Cholla over food, I did have to beat and bang just a little for the food dish to fit in there but....

anyway, the mini after 6 months of growth is an inch or slightly more.










I wanted a better photo but I'm lazy with the camera lately. Also I had some Taiwan Moss tied to a stone in the left rear corner that wasn't growing so I removed it and it was almost completely brown.


----------



## 150EH

An hour after the Pyrex was removed a single TT came out to eat.


----------



## Chrisinator

Very nice layout!


----------



## 150EH

I made some adjustments today and went over the tank with a microscope to fix anything needed. My water parameters were off but I adjusted the kH to 2 and the gH to 6, I removed the moss wall because all of the Christmas moss was dead and brown, it seems the moss behind the wall died from lack of light and that travel to the front and there was only green growth left at the last inch making it look alive, I saw more baby shrimp too.










I think it looks better without....


----------



## 150EH

I noticed some bugs in my tank today, they are white and oblong but otherwise look like a spec of dust however they are lightening fast. We have had our kitchen torn apart replacing some bad Floor joists so I've just been walking past the tank and putting in a very small piece of food every day only skipping one here and there, so I think they are from over feeding. I'm going to start using a feeding dish and only leave it in the tank for a couple hours each day or every other day. I started feeding more because I thought the TT's were eating the TPFR's, I read that TT's were aggressive and will eat molting shrimp but I brushed it off as I thought it was not true, but I started loosing a lot of shrimp because I was only feeding weekly and then I started pulling out a lot of TPFR's with TT's eating away.

Let me know what you think.


----------



## 150EH

I've reduced my feeding and it seems to have helped with the critters, I've also done some cleaning and that helped as well. It seems the TT's have bred along with the TPFR's but I'm starting to believe what some are saying about the TT's being aggressive and eating molts of other breeds while they are soft, so I have picked up the pace from weekly feedings to twice a week and it was only when I tried to feed everyday that I had problems with bugs.


----------



## wrangler

I think that shrimp need fed like at least every other day. When I first got shrimp I was only feeding like once a week, thinking they were eating biofilm and satisfied. But really I think they were starving and I noticed that they would come out less and less, even for food and they slowly died off. I think that much like an old animal that goes off its food, once it happens it's hard to get them eating again. I am sure to feed more frequently now and I have a lot better survival rates.


----------



## 150EH

Thanks wrangler that sounds like good advice and I think I went from one extreme to another before finding a good center.


----------



## 150EH

My suspicions have been confirmed and my TT's did make some babies, there were 6 juveniles and one adult feeding together today, this may have happened just in time as I had lost 2 adults in last couple weeks.

By no means is this a good photo but you get the idea of a small population in a tank that has struggled and the juveniles have a deep orange color.


----------



## talontsiawd

Awesome and congrats. I said this earlier in your thread but I personally struggle when I introduce shrimp. But, once they bread, it's steady from then on so to me that is a great sign. Love this little tank.


----------



## 150EH

Thanks and I am hoping the same, I should be able to fill it with TT's now.


----------



## 150EH

There's been no real changes other than slow but constant growth.










So I removed one Crypt & trimmed the Baby Tears and yanked a nice mat of staghorn algae growing near the surface, I have no idea how this tank gets any algae it never has been dosed with anything but tends to get algae on the surface near the filter outlet.

All the original TT's are gone but there are 8 second generation shrimp, a new brood of small shrimp swimming about, and a fat berried female just faining away so it should be crowded soon.


----------



## cableguy69846

Looks good man. Hope the shrimp keep bouncing back for you.

Sent from my phone via my job's wifi, most likely.


----------



## Newman

those orangy shrimp in here look like cherry shrimp, not TT...
can we get a pic of the TT you have in here now?


----------



## 150EH

cableguy69846 said:


> Looks good man. Hope the shrimp keep bouncing back for you.
> 
> Sent from my phone via my job's wifi, most likely.


Thanks Cable, I just want to let my stock build enough that it becomes a breeding factory and I have a GWAPA member with TT's to strenthin the gene pool.



Newman said:


> those orangy shrimp in here look like cherry shrimp, not TT...
> can we get a pic of the TT you have in here now?


This is the best I can do for now but I have never seen an orange Cherry.
take a look up the page.


----------



## Newman

the only one thats a TT there is the one on the far right- the larger one. the rest are cherry shrimp. they have that coloration as young adults. the females will get very red after they berry a few times.


----------



## james1542

Saddled female cherries would be red, They could be Orange neo's or pumpkins. Very clean tank BTW!


----------



## Newman

no, they could also be an orangy-red color because they havent colored up yet. i saw this in most of my PFR when they were young.
I'm telling you those are cherries. they have to be. they are the offspring of the last cherry shrimp that were in here. probably the pfrs.
you could take a clear close up of one of the shrimp in question to prove me wrong though


----------



## Geniusdudekiran

You mention the plant baby tears, but I don't see any in there... enlighten me? 

Looks great, by the way!


----------



## 150EH

Newman said:


> the only one thats a TT there is the one on the far right- the larger one. the rest are cherry shrimp. they have that coloration as young adults. the females will get very red after they berry a few times.


They are all TT's it could be your vision or your monitor, for that matter it could be my camera, etc. but I assure you they are all TT's.



Geniusdudekiran said:


> You mention the plant baby tears, but I don't see any in there... enlighten me?
> 
> Looks great, by the way!


The bag was labeled Hemianthus glomeratus which I've seen listed as baby tears, pearlweed, and pearlgrass, it's my first time trying this plant so get me straightened out, it't front and center.


----------



## 150EH

I do have Hemianthus callitrichoides - dwarf baby tears in another tank and the form and habit are much different so it seems the Hemianthus glomeratus may be mislabeled.


----------



## 150EH

Geniusdudekiran thanks for calling me out on that plant, our resident plant guru at gwapa says it looks like Rotala rotundifolia so someone mislabeled the bag and I'm too dumb to know the difference. But I'm glad to know what I have now and I was wondering why it looked nothing like the dwarf baby tears in my other tank, duh?


----------



## Geniusdudekiran

150EH said:


> Geniusdudekiran thanks for calling me out on that plant, our resident plant guru at gwapa says it looks like Rotala rotundifolia so someone mislabeled the bag and I'm too dumb to know the difference. But I'm glad to know what I have now and I was wondering why it looked nothing like the dwarf baby tears in my other tank, duh?


No problem, I was about to point out that it was R. rotundifolia but I was unsure of what plant you were referring to at the time; thought you may have been referring to some small clump hidden in the tank.

Both are extremely fast growers and visually appealing, so no harm no foul


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## 150EH

Man I've got a lot of fry in this tank, I just sat and watched the tank today after adding some Barley and I noticed there are fry in 4 different stages along with a berried female. So in just a couple of months I've gone from 8 shrimp to maybe 35 or 40. Things should get interesting soon if production stays at this level, this is turning out to be my favorite tank.


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## cableguy69846

150EH said:


> Man I've got a lot of fry in this tank, I just sat and watched the tank today after adding some Barley and I noticed there are fry in 4 different stages along with a berried female. So in just a couple of months I've gone from 8 shrimp to maybe 35 or 40. Things should get interesting soon if production stays at this level, this is turning out to be my favorite tank.


Lol. Maybe they saw my thread and are trying to keep up with my L144's.

Sent from my phone via my job's wifi, most likely.


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## 150EH

Cable they must have because I did a trim on the fissidens last night and shrimp were flying everywhere. I took the clipping and dressed two small pieces of wood with the mini fissidens and it looked brown because it came from the low tech into a tank with CO2 and ferts.

Here's a before and after:

Before









After - I think I'll pull the largest 'green gecko' for the gwapa auction, it's still a little crowded on the left.









Above


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## Newman

do you still have cherry shrimp in here?


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## 150EH

I've seen a couple of juviniles that could be Cherry's but I think they are Tangerine Tigers because they were TPFR so they should have bold red color and not be able to be mistaken as a translucent red.


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## FlyingShawn

The tank looks really good!

I'm hoping to set up a similar tank before long and really like the look of your light, but I'm a little unclear from your earlier posts which model it is. You mentioned that Marine Depot advised against one you were looking at (this one maybe? Marine Depot: UP Aqua UA-F17 6.69 Inch Flexible LED), but I'm not sure if you ended up getting that one after all or something similar from another source.

It also looks like there's a 9.8" model (scroll down about half way: http://micro-reefs.com/lighting.html), but if I'm reading the specs correctly, it's the same brightness as the 6" version. Do you think the greater spread at the expense of some intensity would work better in a tank this size?


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## 150EH

Thanks, I'm glad you like the tank as iy is also my favorite. 

You are correct this is the the light I use and it works great, the white lights are 8K and it gives me nice growth.

http://www.marinedepot.com/UP_Aqua_UA_F17_6.69_Inch_Flexible_LED_Flexible_Mount_LED_Light_Fixtures_for_Aquariums-UP_Aqua-AZ46447-FILTFILDFX-vi.html


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## Geniusdudekiran

I think that you should put some blyxa in there!


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## 150EH

I have Blyxa aubertii and Blyxa japonica in my 150 and they are both doing poorly without CO2 and even if the Aqua Soil were to help I'm not a big fan of the plant, I don't like the *BIG* bouyant plant with a tiny root system. I would mind trying some Pogostemon helferi if it will grow without CO2 or ferts, I mainly keep this tank free of anything that would harm my TT's so they can breed and between the Cholla, Subwassertang, and Fissidens you would hardly know that there are any shrimp in the tank, they love to hide.


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## andrewss

the fissidens looks really good


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## Newman

woah, you have blyxa aubertii? I'd be interested in buying some from you if youre willing to sell it.


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## 150EH

Newman said:


> woah, you have blyxa aubertii? I'd be interested in buying some from you if youre willing to sell it.


I only have 3 plants in my 150 and it was a CO2 tank but it's been cut off for several months so the Blyxa aubertii is not in great shape but I will keep you in mind at our next club auction.


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## Newman

thanks man, i've been looking all over for that plant. 
yes if you get any, i can definitely be a sure purchaser of it 
I really like the plant. (why is it so bloody rare?)


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## 150EH

These aren't great quality photos but they do show how these TT's are breeding, also the largest shrimp in the photo is a juvenile female who has just matured enough to breed and she is carrying a light load of about 8 eggs, I'd say about half of what a mature female carries.

This tank is just full of tiny shrimp too, they are so small that I have to get a magnifying glass to look for them when I remove the food bowl so it won't be long before this one is full of shrimp.


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## GMYukonon24s

I think your pictures look just fine. This makes me want some TT's.


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## Newman

darn, those pictures still look so much like cherry shrimp to me  maybe its because i have never kept TTs myself but only kept cherries. but still..

do any of your TTs have the black stripe markings on them? that can be another way to tell the two shrimp apart. they also have a slightly different shape and appearance:
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/8287/shrimps12.jpg
The only reason i keep sounding like a broken record is because I really do not want you to get into trouble or get bad feedback when you sell your TTs and some wind up to be cherry shrimp instead.


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## 150EH

The original shrimp had the Tiger markings but all of these are young/juvinile and the markings aren't visable yet, I'm going to give the number for a good eye doctor.

You can see the tiger markings in post 283 and the markings and color difference between the two species in post 278.


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## Green_Flash

I love your pics, the shrimp are great.


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## Newman

I'll keep on watching this and supporting because i like the tank, but don't say i didn't warn you ;P


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## 150EH

The original order was Tangerine Tigers and Taiwan Painted Fire Red which were so red they were a little chalky looking or like a cooked crab/lobster, the TT's have a very orange translucent look along with the tiger stripes. If you click on this photo you can see the color and striping on the TT's, but it's not a very dominate stripe and I've only noticed it in the older shrimp, right know there is nothing in the tank that is older than 7-12-12 so they are 4 months old and working on what seems to be the 4th generation if you go by different sizes in the tank.

Now your make me paranoid, I know they are TT's, I know they are TT's, TT's???


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## Newman

those yellower ones in the last two pics you posted are indeed TTs. (3 in the first photo and the one in the second photo). if you still have shrimp like them around in your tank then those are also definitely TTs. just didnt see any in some of your other pics you posted recently.


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## 150EH

It took me a little while but after your last post I started to really examine the shrimp coloration and you are right, these are Cherry shrimp. I thought they were juvenile TT's with a more concentrated color that would fade with age but the are just Cherrys with a translucent orange coloration, they are very pretty and different but not TT's.

I have a new batch on order with one of our club members so the difference should be very clear after they go in the tank.


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## Newman

Best of luck with the new shrimp! the tank is healthy from what i see. double check the parameters like GH KH and pH, but I'd say there's no way you should lose any TTs the second go around. this tank is well established by now.


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## 150EH

I hope your right but I think they should be OK, I just looked and my last death in the tank was 7-18-12 so all is well and my only worry is no kH.

pH 6.8
kH 1 
gH 6
69 to 72 degrees, there is no heater in this tank.

Also it's a low tech tank so there is no nitrites, ammonia, or nitrates. I did read at one site that TT's are prone to bacterial infections and need a well established tank with a mature colony of beneficial bacteria but the will adapt to most water parameters if acclimated slowly. So my problem may have been the tank was just too young, but now I have about 40 Cherry shrimp and the tank has been up since 12-6-11 so it should support a dozen TT's. The only other problem is most sites claim TT's need a kH of 3 to 6 and my RO/DI unit strips out any kH but I hate adding in too much junk beyond the gH booster.


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## Newman

i think they should be fine with that KH. every parameter seems good for common caridina species (except maybe amanos...)
They should do well.


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## 150EH

*2013 tank update*

There's really nothing new, I never got my TT's but I'm going to pick them up on the 26th at our club meeting, I think there are 40 plus Cherry's in the tank and I'm feeding every other day in a feeding dish. The photo period is very short at 6 hours, I only dose ferts monthly and the tank always has Cladophora but it grows slow and is fairly easy to remove.

Take a look


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## Newman

looks very nice and clean! The clado will subside eventually. back when i had it it my bowl i think it took about 1-2 months until it was gone. just regular maintenance, nothing special.


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## cableguy69846

Very nice. Those Crypts look awesome.


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## 150EH

Newman said:


> looks very nice and clean! The clado will subside eventually. back when i had it it my bowl i think it took about 1-2 months until it was gone. just regular maintenance, nothing special.


Thanks, I've been pulling it out monthly since the tank was new and it's been set up since December 2011, it get really bad if I let the plant grow enough to stop the water circulation, I think the nano filter just doesn't move enough water and I should have a second filter on the right side.

But this is my favorite tank, low tech, low maintenance, and almost free to keep running. I think is a year I've only cleaned the glass maybe 3 or 4 times.



cableguy69846 said:


> Very nice. Those Crypts look awesome.


Thanks Cable, hows life in the great white north, I know that little girl is getting big and ripping the wrapping right off those Christmas gifts.

You can see I just butchered the one C. affinis, left center but I didn't want to pull the whole thing out.


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## tex627

Looks bigger than a 2.5 gallon. Well done!


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## 150EH

Thanks! Time to eat.


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## vvDO

Makes me want to strip down and redo my 2.5g.


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## Bserve

anything?


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