# Soil and floaters Goldfish tank



## Gold Finger (Oct 13, 2011)

I just set up a 70 gallon goldfish tank (12 days ago) with a mineralized top soil substrate (Many thanks to Aaron Talbot, Sean Murphy and TPT for teaching me about soil). The tank will be nitrate filtered by floating plants. I have kept fancy goldfish for quite a while, but have never had a planted tank until now. I first considered planting a tank, not for the appeal of the plants themselves but for their nitrate absorbing ability. These fish are huge waste producers. I have come to realize that floating plants are a fantastic way of absorbing nitrate. They do more, faster, than rooted plants do, because they are not as oxygen, light or carbon dioxide limited as plants under water are. Not only that, they are also way less maintenance. You just scoop out the majority of them when they grow over the whole surface (this realization is thanks to Hoppy and Tom Barr). I thought I had to pack my tank with fast growing plants and give up on anything resembling nice scaping if I was going to keep a planted goldfish tank which didn't need constant water changes, but the floaters leave me free to plant whatever I like in the soil regardless of how little nitrate it absorbs . I am, of course, limited to plants which can deal with the intermittently low light levels, but this is a low tech tank anyway. I have not yet planted anything in the soil, but today I put in some water lettuce, some water hyacinth, and a little Salvinia. Now I'm on the hunt for some greater duckweed and some frogbit. I'm still considering what to plant in the soil.


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## xjasminex (Jul 26, 2011)

Its always nice to see another goldfish lover!
I have kept fancies for a few years and just recently upgraded them to a fifty five gallon tank. (theres only two in total for now)
I plan on getting better lights, which is the only thing preventing me from buying a large amount of plants and planting it. 
I am skeptical about dirt and goldfish but i also know that a thick enough cap will prevent anyone getting to the dirt. 
I plan on using root tabs and maybe potting bigger plants in soil in a pot. But i think when i move the tank when i move probably in a year i will get dirty with dirt!

Im really looking forward to pictures and your journey with dirt and goldfish!

Subscribed too!
Jasmine


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## Gold Finger (Oct 13, 2011)

Yeah, nice to meet you. We goldfish keepers need to pull together. It is unfortunate that so many people think of goldfish as an amateur fish in this part of the world, and that so few people have integrated them well with planted tanks.


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## Gold Finger (Oct 13, 2011)

Oh, and I'll post some better pics when i get a decent camera. Not much too show yet anyway. By the way, where are we supposed to put pics we want other members to be able to see? As far as I can tell, No one else can see my album.


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## xjasminex (Jul 26, 2011)

I know, everyone is so against them too. 
They have no clue about the struggle and the love that we get in return from our goldie friends!

I am all for planted tanks...less water changes..hells yea! Im hoping that with keeping my goldies well feed on homemade gel food and always keeping fresh veggies in the tank i will be able to steer them away from eating the plants.

I was just looking at APC and i read about dataguru freezing mud and placing it under the substrate...i think that maybe i will have to try that! Have you visited GAB? Its a great goldie site! 

I would love a tank that size unfortunately i cant right now but i see it in my future sometime!

Oh and i can see your album!


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## Lutra (Sep 30, 2011)

Another goldfish keeper here, I subscribed to your thread also. Goldfish are underrated. 

I'm interested to see what works/doesn't work for you. All I have in with my fantail right now is a couple of Java ferns and an _Anubias barteri_ attached to rocks.


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## Gold Finger (Oct 13, 2011)

Good to have you around Lutra.:icon_smil


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## Gold Finger (Oct 13, 2011)

Yup. They ate all the lesser duckweed. But they left the greater duckweed alone. I think they are eating the root hairs off of the water lettuce, but not the water hyacinth. Also, my overflow isn't skimming well with the interference of the screen and duckweed. I have a film for the first time. Will have to figure that out. Goldfish are worse than teenage children.


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## Lutra (Sep 30, 2011)

Interesting. Only one kind of duckweed is worth eating? I wonder if they would eat the other kind if the tasty lesser duckweed wasn't there, too.

I have a comet in a tub outside with water hyacinth, he's pretty much left the roots on that alone.


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## xjasminex (Jul 26, 2011)

I was looking to get the little duckweed because my goldfish will eat it...i was thinking if i put it in the other tanks and it grows like crazy i will have a never ending supply of goldie snacks!


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## Gold Finger (Oct 13, 2011)

Good idea on growing L. minor, Jas. I will definitely grow it for them in the future. It is super good for their digestion. I pretty much knew they would eat it all. Everyone says that they always do.

I removed my terrestrial plants because they were taking all the nitrates and leaving none for the floaters. Am really stuck on my overflow problem. Can't get it to skim well with the floater screen in place. Gonna research it. I really want the floaters, but won't give up a film free water surface.


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## Gold Finger (Oct 13, 2011)

Lutra said:


> Interesting. Only one kind of duckweed is worth eating? I wonder if they would eat the other kind if the tasty lesser duckweed wasn't there, too.
> 
> I have a comet in a tub outside with water hyacinth, he's pretty much left the roots on that alone.


Still haven't touched the tougher L. major, but completely converted the L. minor into green poop.


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## Gold Finger (Oct 13, 2011)

*floating plants and surface film*

Think I have hit a big snag in my plans. It turns out that a heavy cover of floating plants means that you will have some surface film (ugh). I can't deal with the stuff and am seriously considering scrapping the idea of using floaters to help with the excess nitrate and just planting the substrate heavily. drat!


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## xjasminex (Jul 26, 2011)

Did you see my suggestion on the thread I started about corralling it. If you use fishing line to keep it in one corner of the tank you might be able to have both...a little bit of floaters go a long way.


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## Gold Finger (Oct 13, 2011)

Yeah I did see your tip. Mine are corralled by currents. No problem there. My problem is that they allow film to develop between the individual plants. Am pretty sure I'll scrap the idea of using any floaters (except as food). I know some people have success with them, but I am not ok with any surface film...it seems unhealthy to me. Will probably just plant my soil substrate with fast growers and follow your post.


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## xjasminex (Jul 26, 2011)

Gotcha, I have some film in my small 5 gallon but not much, my water parameters are pristine so it doesn't bother me, plus my betta is spunky as ever so if he's ok I'm ok.


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## Gold Finger (Oct 13, 2011)

He's ok, you're ok... I'm a bit neurotic.


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## Lutra (Sep 30, 2011)

We're all neurotic here. Surface film appalls me, especially when oxygen-hungry goldfish are involved. I have a pond pump that roils the surface up like a volcanic hot spring, to be honest. 

Do all floaters have surface film between them? Do you get more or less depending on the structure of the plant? Does the water lettuce, for example, have as bad a film problem as the duckweed?


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## Gold Finger (Oct 13, 2011)

Yup. Yup, and nope. They say floaters hate surface movement (they are evolved to live in ponds not rivers), but I don't have much experience here. Have you had them in with roiling water long?


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## Gold Finger (Oct 13, 2011)

But the plants probably more than make up for the film in terms of gas exchange. They exchange gas actively, whereas the surface does so somewhat passively (though you may have problems at night). My bigger concern is with the living stuff that grows under the film. Bacteria. I don't trust them because I don't know anything about them. I know they work well for most people, but I have officially given up on them.


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## Lutra (Sep 30, 2011)

You got me. I don't know what kinds of bacteria lurk in surface films, either.

It makes sense that a plant evolved to live on the surface of the water wouldn't like that surface to be in constant motion, but I imagine that even floaters living in a pond must get knocked around fairly frequently by the wind and animals.

The only floater I have is a chunk of water hyacinth in my tub outside, which has a roiling surface too (except when the prefilter clogs, which is at least once a day). The plant has been in there about six months, and managed to double in size when the weather was still warm. 

I have a second chunk of water hyacinth sitting passively in a vase right next to the tub: no water movement at all in it. That plant has larger leaves and is greener than the one in the tub with all the surface action -- but I routinely empty the mulm from the tub pump's prefilter into the vase, so it's undoubtedly better fertilized. In other words, I don't know just how hampered the water hyacinth is by being tossed around all day. It's not a controlled experiment at all.


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## Lutra (Sep 30, 2011)

Say, Gold Finger, how are your vallisneria doing?

I wanted to ask you, where did you get the greater duckweed? I'm looking for some.


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## Gold Finger (Oct 13, 2011)

The mini twister vals have only been in for a couple of days. No sign of melt yet. They look good. As for the duckweed, I live in Canada so you probably won't be going to my LFS where I got 'em.:icon_lol:


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## Gold Finger (Oct 13, 2011)

My hyacinth was not doing well (probably from lack of light), so I got rid of it. The rest of my floaters are in my sump with my terrestrials and doing well, and won't be returning to my tank, so it looks like this thread may fizzle, unless you go the floater route and keep up the posts. I will post about my setup on xjasminex's "low tech planted goldfish" thread from now on since floaters in a sump is not really what this thread is supposed to be about.
To summarize my results: I was turned off of floaters in my main tank partly because of conflicts with my overflow style filter, and partly because of bio film concerns (between the soil and the goldfish). It is not that I think these problems can't be overcome, but that it seems to me that it might be more trouble than its worth for me. It adds complexity which I feel conflicts with the low tech thing.


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## xjasminex (Jul 26, 2011)

I understand, if you want to get rid of floating plants you can send them my way! =]

I just bought plants for my tank today, so any advise or input is always welcome!

Right now i feel that my goldie tank is a lot of work because i move 25 gallons of water every week, so hopefully plants will simplify my life =]


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## Gold Finger (Oct 13, 2011)

Yeah. That is why I am planting. I hate carting water:angryfire I have a plan, but will post in your thread.


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