# 72 Gal Treescape Dry Start



## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

After 3 months of planning things out I've decided to jump in and set up my new tank. I'd love to get some feedback to make sure I'm on the right track. 

Firstly I reused a blend of 9 month old Amazonia 2 and 4 month old New Amazonia (purchased earlier) with a cap of brand new Amazonia. I hope that this will have enough nutrients for my current plants which are S. Repens, S. Porto Velho, dwarf sag, and some UG. If not, should I add OSMOCOTE tabs into the substrate?

I've also set a humidifier in the tank to maintain a humidity of over 90% at all times and added an airpump for air circulation. Both are timed to turn on for 30mins every 3 hours. My lights are on about 14hrs a day and I mist about twice a day to keep the slope moist.

Let me know if I'm doing something wrong or if I can change anything. So far all seems well. Also, if you have any other plant suggestions, that would be great! I’m planning on planting some HC on the island to the right. 

And here are the specs of the setup so far: 
72 Gallon Bowfront
2x Eheim 2217
1x Hydor 300watt heater
Tek Light 48" 4x 54watt
10lb co2 w/ Cerges reactor & Milwaukee PH controller

Hardscape:
Driftwood (from Tom Barr)
Rocks (from PC1)


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

That's a cool pic, I love the tree. Looking forward to see this one filled.

With your substrate, I'd say you can skip the additional substrate ferts for a while. Doesn't look like you are planning to have heavy root feeders anyway.

Regarding other plants, that's a tough one. Nothing that grows too tall to hide or take away from the wood. Perhaps some Mini Pellia attached to the branches to give it a bit more of a "tree" impression?


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Thanks Wasserpest!
Additional plants are kind of hard... I don't even have enough room behind the wood to plant upwards. Maybe smaller crypts? The mini pellia sounds like a good idea.. I was thinking fissidens but the color would be too dark.. hmm..


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Anyone know of any nice small crypt species that wont grow taller than 5inches?


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## nilocg (Jul 12, 2010)

I would suggest going with another grass instead of dwarf sag, with co2 it will get out of control really quickly. Beautiful start by the way.


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Thanks! What kind of grass do you think? I was actually rethinking the dwarf sag, but since I'm working on it above water I can change it without too much hassle. I can at least keep it alive for now until I find a replacement. Anyone want to trade? lol


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Jeromeit said:


> Anyone know of any nice small crypt species that wont grow taller than 5inches?


C. parva stays very small, but also grows very, very slowly. C. willisii stays smaller than 3in in the well-lit areas in my tank, could be a good choice as well.

Dwarf Sags are nice, but tend to run around in the tank a lot. Can be difficult to keep them out of similar carpet plants.

Check out Blyxa japonica, it grows a bit taller, but looks really nice and is easy to keep under control.


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

I have some Blyxa in my 10 gallon sitting waiting until this guy gets filled. Maybe that will be the background. I'm looking for a red plant to add too, might go with a tiger lotus right at the trunk of the tree. Checked in today and it looked like the dwarf sag isn't handling the emerged setup well. I guess I'll have to replace them afterall.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Tiger Lotus has a tendency to get very big. Might not fit well with the overall setup of your 'scape. How about a Ludwigia glandulosa or arcuata, Rotala macrantha or similar fairly slow growing stem plant?


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Thats a great idea! Ludwigia glandulosa looks amazing.. going to post a WTB. Saw that it can be grown during a dry start too!


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

= \ my humidifier (concept health brand) stopped working. Came home and the humidity was 70% all looks great though.. will be getting updated shots when I think things are moving along. Added some poolfilter sand and HC so far.. I want things to move faster!!


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Decided to add some new pics =] Dont mind the blue box, thats where my humidifier used to be.. getting a new one tomorrow.


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## doncityz (May 17, 2011)

This guy can scape! Awsum


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

lol thanks!


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## green_valley (Sep 14, 2011)

I must say, that is a very very very nice scape. AWESOME. I love it.


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Thanks green_valley =] So finally decided on some more plants.. I guess this thing is going to turn into partial collection tank lol.. Also I christmatized it.. (pics to follow)


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## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

Looks great so far.


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Thanks gatekeeper! Will have updates sometime tnight =]


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## Capsaicin_MFK (Nov 15, 2009)

I agree with the general public, that is some fantastic scaping.


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Capsaicin_MFK said:


> I agree with the general public, that is some fantastic scaping.


Thanks Capsaicin! 

To update everyone on whats been happening.. I've added more plants (courtesy of Mr. Gordon) so here's the updated plant list

S. Rep
S. Porto Velho
A. Coffeefolia
UG
HC
C. Lucens
C. Bronze
C. Navelli

Also....
I added Christmas lights to the tree, being that It wont be done till after Christmas anyway... It may not be the best idea in the world, weird if you ask me.. but ehh why not.. Heres some pics! (not the best pics in the world)


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## 10galfornow (May 13, 2011)

That's funny that you added Christmas lights to it. They won't short circuit with all the humidity and misting will they? Love your scape too.


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

10galfornow said:


> That's funny that you added Christmas lights to it. They won't short circuit with all the humidity and misting will they? Love your scape too.



lol i thought about the short circuit issue.. seems good so far.. lol only time will tell LOL probably very stupid of me.. but my girlfriend is in the christmas mood.. i needed to cheer her on lol


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## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

10galfornow said:


> That's funny that you added Christmas lights to it. They won't short circuit with all the humidity and misting will they? Love your scape too.


As long as you use outdoor lights, they should be fine. No different than rain, snow or condensation when outside. Be weary of any inline plugs and receptacles of course.


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

Nice


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Craigthor said:


> Nice


Thanks Craig! I think I might be catching collectoritis... Not good


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## frenchymasters (Nov 28, 2011)

i really like that tree you have going on! where did you get it?


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Got it from Tom Barr (plantbrain) he's in the powersellers forum! Really good seller


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Alright.. so I just wanted to update my plant list.. its grown. Let me know if you see anything wrong with the list or any incompatible species. I'm starting to worry about what will happen when submerged.. Kinda scary.. 

Anyways here it goes..

Crypt Keei**
Crypt Affinis Metalic Red**
Crypt Prava (just 2 small patches)
Crypt Nuri
Crypt Navelli
Crypt Brown
Crypt Becketti
Crypt Lucens
Crypt Undalata
Staurogyne Rep
Staurogyne Porto Velho
Staurogyne Purple
Ludwigia Unconfirmed??
Ludwigia Guinea Senegalesis
Mini Pellia
Downoi 
Hygrophila pinnafitada
Hygrophila (sunset)
Anubias Coffeefolia 
Polygonum SP Sao Paulo
Pogostemon yatabeanus
Red Nesaea
Nesaea crassicaulis
Rotala Singapore
Rotala Gai Lai
Rotala Yai Yao
Rotala Macandra Red
Limnopholia sp. Wavy
Lindernia Sp. India
Ludwigia Glandulosa
Ludwigia sp Red
Ludwigia Ovalis 
Mexican Sword (I think)
Hydrocotyle Tripartita
Hydrocotyle Verticillata
Cyperus helferi
Erio Parkheri
UG
HC

**pending


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## Storm (Aug 7, 2011)

Looks awesome. I can't wait until it grows out and gets filled!


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

I've got the Red let me know when you are ready I need a couple weeks yet before I trim.

Craig


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Double post


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Hi all,
Added l. Big red, nc, nd nana petites thanks craig!!! Will have s Porto Velho and s rep. Trimmings soon if anyone is interested.


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

Water, water, water... LOL


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Bro I am soo scared of adding water I don't have my dream regulator yet, and the ug and hc haven't filled in. Meanwhile my 10 gal is holding more nana petites until the tank is filled. Chad's portions were huge!


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

LOL where are you getting your regulator from?


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

No clue yet waiting for after Christmas to find one. Buying the gf a Mac.. Will be broke for a bit lol


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

Jeromeit said:


> No clue yet waiting for after Christmas to find one. Buying the gf a Mac.. Will be broke for a bit lol


 
Should jsut grab yourself a cheap Milwaukee, Aquatek, etc regulator and fill the tank and blast it with CO2. Worry about your dream rig next year and piece it together as you get time and find deals on the parts.

Craig


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Btw there's hair nd blue green algae in that tank... Kinda worried for my fissidens, blyxas, and petites.... I don't want it spreading to the main tank once it's filled.


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

I have a cheap jbj reg and a Milwaukee and 3 10lb tanks... I don't even know why lol. Well regardless if I do decide to fill it in (once I get over my fear of comitment) I can do so after Christmas, my bday is comming up too so will be busy for a bit.


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## zachary908 (Feb 12, 2011)

Man this is looking awesome! I can't wait to see it flooded!

Looks like you ended up finding your plants! roud:


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Not yet really Zachary, still gotta find the sp reds and glandulosa, just havnt fully scaped it yet. The placement isn't permanent for now. Still needs a lot of moving around. Just havnt had the time, finals, work, Christmas, bdays, all kicking my ass lol.


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

I've got the Sp 'Red' for ya just need to decide it I need to keep some for my scape yet...


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Lmao bro you have everything!! Let me know  thanks again for the plants! I hope they convert properly otherwise I may just have to take that dive you've been suggesting.

Another fts:








Humidifier doing its thing 









Lol finally got an iPhone so I'm playing around with filters hehe


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## zachary908 (Feb 12, 2011)

I've also got the sp. 'red' It's been growing great in my emersed lately.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Man those anubias look huge in there  After a year youll have a 10G bush...eww:hihi:

I love the DSM scape. This thing is going to go nuts when you flood it. I cant wait to see it. Forgive me for not looking back but whats the lighting and ferts going to be?


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## .Mko. (Sep 23, 2010)

man, the depth in your tank is intense im totally in love with the hardscape rock work is just awesome and your driftwood piece just complements it even more. Can't wait to see it all filled up. Awesome job!


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

That humidifier make your tank looks like my neighborhood right now.... All foggy and cold right now.  

Looks like things are coming along great!


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## doncityz (May 17, 2011)

Are those LED lights on the tree? won't they get rusted later on?

Cool scape though.


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

chad320 said:


> Man those anubias look huge in there  After a year youll have a 10G bush...eww:hihi:
> 
> I love the DSM scape. This thing is going to go nuts when you flood it. I cant wait to see it. Forgive me for not looking back but whats the lighting and ferts going to be?


Hey chad lighting is a 4x 54w t5ho tek light
2x giesmann aqua flora
2x giesmann midday

Honestly haven't figured out a fert regime yet... This is actually my first (serious) planted tank. I've no experience w. dry ferts or co2.. but I do have both ready for when I flood.. Pointers on ferts and co2 anyone?


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Thanks .Mko. , jkan, don. The lights r just christmas lights. They'll be removed before flooding lol. Just wanted to get into the Xmas spirit


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Here is what I use for ferts...

http://sites.google.com/site/aquaticplantfertilizer/home/pps-pro


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

chad320 said:


> Here is what I use for ferts...
> 
> http://sites.google.com/site/aquaticplantfertilizer/home/pps-pro


oooo this is some useful stuff! 

BTW Onefang just sent me pics of the pipes he made for me.. they're gorgeous! 








The low spraybar will be connected to a cerges style co2 reactor for even co2 distribution =]


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

I never knew he could make pipes large enough for the 2217. But they are certainly beautiful! Just wait till they get dirty... Hahaha


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

jkan0228 said:


> I never knew he could make pipes large enough for the 2217. But they are certainly beautiful! Just wait till they get dirty... Hahaha


yea.. it'll be a pain.. should fit my 5gal bucket just will have to waste a crap ton of bleach & prime


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

You should google around for a hose brush. They got a long flex wire and the right size diameter brush at the end and even go around corners. Very helpful item and cheaper in the long run.


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

good idea!
btw, i'm having the holes opened up from 2mm to 3mm each hole (8 holes in each) in the spraybar to reduce turbulence and help create a smoother flow. I dont want the water blowing everything away. I hope it'll work!


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

I'd try it in your tank first to see if you like it. I did the same with my top mount spraybar. They had too much jet at first so I opened the holes up 1/16th at a time. BTW, I failed to mention the those pipes are badass. Onefang does some great work with them. If I ever get a 75p I would have him make me some just like yours.


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

chad320 said:


> I'd try it in your tank first to see if you like it. I did the same with my top mount spraybar. They had too much jet at first so I opened the holes up 1/16th at a time. BTW, I failed to mention the those pipes are badass. Onefang does some great work with them. If I ever get a 75p I would have him make me some just like yours.


Thanks! I think i'll just start off with 3mm holes. The ID of the output is 12.7mm (1/2in) which means that the overall area is 126.6mm. 8x 3mm would only have an area of 56 or so mm so its still limiting, may even make the holes bigger. Does my math make sense? or am I just trying to be too smart and failing at it as usual? *Someone please correct me if I'm wrong!*


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Anyone? lol is my math or reasoning correct?


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

New Pics!


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

Very nice. Clean and amazing growth. Love it. I see you found yourself on APE too.


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

jkan0228 said:


> Very nice. Clean and amazing growth. Love it. I see you found yourself on APE too.


lol thanks bro! Yep, couldn't resist it lol


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

The best math for your spraybar is going to be the power button 

Man, this tank is so cool I dont even know if id ever add water to it


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

Tie a ton of moss to that tree and just leave it dry...


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Lol honestly the thought did cross my mind. But wouldn't it be better if there was water in it? And a bunch of tetras running around that would be kind of cool. Lol I'm actually scared of putting water in it lol


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

Moss will grow emersed but very slow. But the growth is a very nice shade of green.


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Theres fissidens on the base of the tree right now.. doesn't look too good though.. = \


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Hi all I've started a dry start tank for about two months now. It's almost time to fill and I'm getting edgy. I have all of my plants in place and growing. How do I fill the tank? Does anyone have a step-by-step to how to fill up the dry start tank? How much CO2 should I inject? How much light should I use? What temp should I keep the tank? I'm worried about melting my plants. Any help would be appreciated.


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## SlammedDC2 (Jun 4, 2011)

awesome scape


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Thanks!


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## kwheeler91 (May 26, 2009)

Awesome tank man... Very unique. I would never have tought to use that piece of wood like that but it looks awesome! Plants look like they belong exactly where you have them too great job


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## endgin28 (Feb 9, 2010)

Beautiful work. Looks awesome. Fwiw, there is a step by step nano thread (I think it was stu's Ada mini- don't have the link) in which he wads up newspaper around his hardscape and then fills the tank. I just did this with a mini m and it worked quite well. The paper keeps things from shifting and is pretty easy to pull out when soggy without wrecking the joint. The other trick I used was taking a Tupperware bowl and weighting the bottom with lead and gluing closed cell foam around the edges to keep it from flipping. Drilled a bunch of little holes under the bowl and slowly filled that up. Frankly the paper trick was slicker.


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## endgin28 (Feb 9, 2010)

As far as lighting and co2 goes, you have 216 watts of good light for 72 gallons right? That is about 3wpg, and would lead me to guess about 8 hrs a day, maybe a little less, maybe a little more. Depends on height of the lights, etc. As far as co2 goes I would start on the high end (no initial livestock to worry about) and fine tune from there. You have a drop checker right? Aim for yellow at first and fine tune to the green. Could be as high as 3-6 bps, could be lower. Again lots of variables. Don't be afraid! You have done a great job so far and while there will probably be some melting, with two months of good growth so far they will bounce back just fine. They are rooted in well.


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

kwheeler91 said:


> Awesome tank man... Very unique. I would never have tought to use that piece of wood like that but it looks awesome! Plants look like they belong exactly where you have them too great job


Thanks!



endgin28 said:


> As far as lighting and co2 goes, you have 216 watts of good light for 72 gallons right? That is about 3wpg, and would lead me to guess about 8 hrs a day, maybe a little less, maybe a little more. Depends on height of the lights, etc. As far as co2 goes I would start on the high end (no initial livestock to worry about) and fine tune from there. You have a drop checker right? Aim for yellow at first and fine tune to the green. Could be as high as 3-6 bps, could be lower. Again lots of variables. Don't be afraid! You have done a great job so far and while there will probably be some melting, with two months of good growth so far they will bounce back just fine. They are rooted in well.


Thanks for the support! I'm getting in some more plants today so will do some final trimming/moving things around and will wait another 2 weeks before fill =] will keep you all updated! =D

also gotta think about stocking..
any idea as to what you guys would stock in here?


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## scapegoat (Jun 3, 2010)

gorgeous tank.

very "sleepy hallow" feeling to me... i feel like you could get away with a person being hung from that tree


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

LMAO thanks!


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

WPG does not work with T5HO's since they're so powerful.... Well they aren't THAT powerful but they don't apply to the wpg rule. 
With lighting start with 9hrs a day, maybe a siesta of an hour or two in between. Adjust your height of your lighting if algae strikes.


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## driftwoods (Feb 2, 2011)

fill it!!! Please!!


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Lol just waiting on maknar's awesome mini Matheson regulator build and a few more plants tubing and supplies  I estimate 3 to 4 weeks till the hard part lol may do a trim before then. Anyone want to buy some trimmings? Or trade for some glandulosa or any other foreground plant???


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## Robotponys (Sep 7, 2011)

*Amazing!*

I love it! I would consider getting some plant trimmings. It depends on total price, quantity, etc. Also, what kind of fauna are you thinking about putting in? I would have to suggest:
-Celestial Pearl Danios
-dwarf shrimp (crystal reds if your water is soft, Sakura/RCS/fire reds if it's harder, or whatever else catches your eye)
-albino bristle nose plecos for the algae 
-angelfish? I know nothing about them.
-cardinal tetras
-wild type bettas, for example: Betta Macrostoma (these are really gorgeous, but expensive. Here's a breeding project on them that has plentyb of general info:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/t...betta-macrostoma-breeding-project-update.html

Just something for you to consider. Check out Win Tropical Aquariums in Chinatown, they just got new baby angels. I know they're not all compatible, but you can decide. 

This is my dream tank! I currently have 1 5.5. Gallon, a crayfish jar, and 2 bettas bowls. Serious jealousy here! 

Another thing, once it's flooded, it would look pretty awesome to let the moss fall from the "branches", or maybe small, flower/bud like plants and let the roots trail down like a weeping willow. I really love this tank, as long as you keep the tree, I don't care what you do with it!


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Thanks to robotpony! If you're interested in any I the plants just let me know what you'd like and we can work something out. I'm in the lower east side so we're not far off at all. As for fish I've yet to decide but have ruled angelfish out. I don't like the way they look when they get too old... They loose their triangular shape. Depending on what fish I add i may add some cherry shrimp culls from my shrimp tank.

So quick update 
I've added some :
Ludwigia sp red hybrid
hygrophila pinnatifida
ranunculus inundatus

I also raised the nana petites onto the branches and placed them next to the humidifier output. Sadly this didn't work out and the petites started to wilt to I took em off and placed them back towards the bottom sand bed.










Still waiting patiently for my co2 setup and planning a new 18 gallon with some wingo led lights I wanna see if those guys can work on planted aquaria from setup, probably iwigami dry start.


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## Robotponys (Sep 7, 2011)

Wow there are so many plants in there! The petites would look cool on the driftwood when it's filled so there wont be any humidity problems.  Yeah the lower east side is nice and close.  Just send a PM when you travel into Chinatown. I probably won't be around, but if you go to Win I'm around the corner and maybe, just maybe you could drop some off? If not, we can meet somewhere easy for both of us to get to. One thing, I'm a "minor" unfortunately, so parents approval to let me meet with a random internet person (not that you are some crazy killer...right? ) might take some work... 

I would love some easy carpet plants, moss, floating plants, and also anything else you have that would work in a low tech tank. A pretty miserable list compared to your tank. lol! Thanks!


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

hmmm.. i just threw out a bunch of things.. but I may do an RAOK soon so maybe you'll get lucky =D


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## Robotponys (Sep 7, 2011)

Jeromeit said:


> hmmm.. i just threw out a bunch of things.. but I may do an RAOK soon so maybe you'll get lucky =D


:drool:


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## ADAtank (Jul 26, 2011)

i really like this setup! great job


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Thanks!


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

OMG put water in it!!!!

Seriously, I admire the patience you dry start guys have. I really like the way you handled the tree roots area, looks great. This is pretty much what I was gonna shoot for in my 120H, except using windelov fern for the tree canopy.


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Nice! Good luck  thanks for the compliments


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## binako (Aug 8, 2011)

This looks great! Any updates?


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## aXio (May 29, 2011)

That is looking amazing so far.


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Thanks guys! No updates as of yet but maknwar is working really hard on my regulator rig. Really great seller I your lookin for a custom setup. I did get some new apistogramma cacatoo though  they're in my 10 gallon waiting for me to fill the tank. They don't jump do they?


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

Jeromeit said:


> Thanks guys! No updates as of yet but maknwar is working really hard on my regulator rig. Really great seller I your lookin for a custom setup. I did get some new apistogramma cacatoo though  they're in my 10 gallon waiting for me to fill the tank. They don't jump do they?


Gorgeous tank! Too bad it's on hold.


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Thanks! It'll be up soon =] Will post pics or video once its filled and good to go =D aiming to add livestock mid march. May add 100+ PFR and let them multiply in there for a bit (1 or 2 months?) Then add some smaller tetras.. let them grow out then add my apistos. Good plan? Bad plan? input?


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

Sounds good. 100 pfr will be a sight! the tetra will look nice schooling around the tank. I love apistos. Will that be it?


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

Gawd its not full yet. lol


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Craigthor said:


> Gawd its not full yet. lol


in time brothaman in time


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

LOL at this rate I'll have the new tank up and running.

How are the plants doing on your end? I may need to get a few stems of S. Purple as I cut my MH back and most of my purple melted away.  Also did you ever get you L. Glandulosa I'll be looking for some I think when I do the move.

Craig


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Craigthor said:


> LOL at this rate I'll have the new tank up and running.
> 
> How are the plants doing on your end? I may need to get a few stems of S. Purple as I cut my MH back and most of my purple melted away.  Also did you ever get you L. Glandulosa I'll be looking for some I think when I do the move.
> 
> Craig


LMK how many stems of S. Purple u need, I dont have lots, but I can spare a few maybe 3 or 4 stems right now, also I did get some Glandulosa and can spare some once they grow out a bit more. =]


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

Sounds good I probably won't replant either till I make the tank move in 3-4 weeks .

Craig


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

Craigthor said:


> Gawd its not full yet. lol


*like*


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

sundragon said:


> Sounds good. 100 pfr will be a sight! the tetra will look nice schooling around the tank. I love apistos. Will that be it?


Yep thinking about 20 rummy nose
20 cardinals 6 cherry barbs hopefully 1000 cherries and 3 apisto caucatoides 10 ottos hopefully 10 zebra ottos a few corys nd amanos Does that sound like it'll work? Anyone?


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

Take out the barbs and make your cardinal school bigger. Theres no need to start out with 100 pfr. 30-40 will be enough to boom in population.


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

jkan0228 said:


> Take out the barbs and make your cardinal school bigger. Theres no need to start out with 100 pfr. 30-40 will be enough to boom in population.


Why the barbs? I was more worried about the Apistos? 

anyways.. heres a new pic!


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## mahko (Dec 10, 2011)

Fill it!


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Will do in 2 weeks! I just hope the wood doesnt plop out and float.. that would be tragic lol


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## zachary908 (Feb 12, 2011)

Dude, that is amazing... I almost wouldn't even flood it! Either way, it's awesome. Keep up the great work! Do you happen to have a plant list?


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Hey Zach Thanks! 

Heres the updated list:
_
Crypt Keei**
Crypt Affinis Metalic Red**_
Crypt Prava (just 2 small patches)
Crypt Nuri
Crypt Navelli
Crypt Brown
Crypt Becketti
Crypt Lucens
Crypt Undalata
Staurogyne Rep
Staurogyne Porto Velho
Staurogyne Purple
Ludwigia Unconfirmed??
Ludwigia Guinea Senegalesis
Mini Pellia
Downoi 
Hygrophila pinnafitada
Hygrophila (sunset)
Anubias Coffeefolia 
Polygonum SP Sao Paulo
Pogostemon yatabeanus
Red Nesaea
Nesaea crassicaulis
Rotala Singapore
Rotala Gai Lai
Rotala Yai Yao
Rotala Macandra Red
Limnopholia sp. Wavy
Lindernia Sp. India
Ludwigia Glandulosa
Ludwigia sp Red
Ludwigia Ovalis 
Mexican Sword (I think)
Hydrocotyle Tripartita
Hydrocotyle Verticillata
Cyperus helferi
Erio Parkheri
UG
HC

_**pending_


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## chiefroastbeef (Feb 14, 2011)

Jeromeit said:


> Will do in 2 weeks! I just hope the wood doesnt plop out and float.. that would be tragic lol


WOW, that looks amazing! If I were you, I would weigh down the wood before you fill, it would be tragic if it comes up and rips up part of your scape. Better safe than sorry!


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

chiefroastbeef said:


> WOW, that looks amazing! If I were you, I would weigh down the wood before you fill, it would be tragic if it comes up and rips up part of your scape. Better safe than sorry!


Thanks! Yea I'll do that just incase lol


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Man, even when this grows in, its going to be LOADED! You'll have to thin some of the plants out to make it look right I think. It looks awesome as it is. How are you going to fill it? One big shot or a little at a time?


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

chad320 said:


> Man, even when this grows in, its going to be LOADED! You'll have to thin some of the plants out to make it look right I think. It looks awesome as it is. How are you going to fill it? One big shot or a little at a time?


Yea I'll do a deep trim once everything settles in. I plan on filling half first and then another half later so the wood won't want to fly up. Gonna start turning on the humidifier more often to raise humidity way up at all times gonna go for 99% so I won't get horrible melting.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

You've thought this through. I can not wait to see this come together!!!


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Lol I'm Soo scared all the plants are gonna melt and my investment would be gone! Lol I showed a couple of my friends and one said "this proves that your OCD tendencies do exist" lol. There's something about manipulating nature that is Soo much more satisfying than manipulating a digital image haha


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Yes, I feel your nervousness. I would be scared about it too. I think it will end up being straight awesomeness tho. My tank is going to be somewhat the opposite. Im going to see if I can convert a crypt/buce tank to emergent this Summer. And then back again in the winter. Yikes!


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

chad320 said:


> Yes, I feel your nervousness. I would be scared about it too. I think it will end up being straight awesomeness tho. My tank is going to be somewhat the opposite. Im going to see if I can convert a crypt/buce tank to emergent this Summer. And then back again in the winter. Yikes!


Woah. I'm sure it'll be fine just keep up the humidity. Have you done crypt keei emerged before with any success?? Any pointers?


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

You dont want pointers for emergent Keei from me  I did terrible with it. Which, unfortunately seems to be the concensus.


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

chad320 said:


> You dont want pointers for emergent Keei from me  I did terrible with it. Which, unfortunately seems to be the concensus.


What were your params and why do u think it died on you??


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

If I recall correctly he burned them somehow.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

I must say that is downright beautiful
I love that piece of wood and I really really love the fact that this is a bowfront!
Definitely gets best bowfront award from me.


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Chlorophile said:


> I must say that is downright beautiful
> I love that piece of wood and I really really love the fact that this is a bowfront!
> Definitely gets best bowfront award from me.


Thanks! Though I doubt this is the best bowfront. The only reason I got one was because my girlfriend likes the bow as opposed to a regular. Only way to get a bigger tank instead of our planned 65 hehe..

And a burned keei... Ouch


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Jeromeit said:


> Thanks! Though I doubt this is the best bowfront. The only reason I got one was because my girlfriend likes the bow as opposed to a regular. Only way to get a bigger tank instead of our planned 65 hehe..
> 
> And a burned keei... Ouch


Whats a Keei?
It sounds cool I want one!


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Lol Keei is a kind of crypt  looks pretty cool


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Jeromeit said:


> Lol Keei is a kind of crypt  looks pretty cool


Oh wow that one does look cool..
I wan't some bucephelandra's


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Jerome, I kept the Keei in malaya AS emergent and they didnt do well. After the fact of putting them there I read that they dont do well. So I hastily added them to my brand new AS amazonia tank. Turns out they dont like new AS, they like it cycled a bit first. It was a shot in the ribs for me. Just bad timing and nowhere else to go with them. So I stand my ground, If you want good Keei. Im no genius. They DID do great in an AS, Eco, and MTS mix for about a year tho


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

chad320 said:


> Jerome, I kept the Keei in malaya AS emergent and they didnt do well. After the fact of putting them there I read that they dont do well. So I hastily added them to my brand new AS amazonia tank. Turns out they dont like new AS, they like it cycled a bit first. It was a shot in the ribs for me. Just bad timing and nowhere else to go with them. So I stand my ground, If you want good Keei. Im no genius. They DID do great in an AS, Eco, and MTS mix for about a year tho


Ahh I see. Sorry bro! 

I guess I'll be waiting until I fill my tank before the Keei and affinis come in. Now when I fill, should I start dosing EI immediately? I know to bump the co2 way high, but what should I do about dosing? Because this dry start has been on for about 3 months now, the tank should be well cycled right?


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## FDNY911 (Dec 6, 2009)

Looks Awesome bro! Any updates?


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

FDNY911 said:


> Looks Awesome bro! Any updates?


Hey bro how u been? I'm gonna fill in about 2 weeks so I'm gathering the final goodies test kits ph probe etc. the only update I have so far are images of my new regulator setup made by maknwar. Looks sick!


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Hi guys so I saw some worms in my DSM setup, thinking I'll have to use some dewormer when I fill the tank. Does anyone know where I can find some? I've looked around me and I havnt spotted any..  Is it harmful to plants?


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## youjettisonme (Dec 24, 2010)

You can just go to any local pet store and buy the dog dewormer that has fenbendazole. Won't harm your plants at all.

http://www.amazon.com/Panacur-Canine-Dewormer-1-gram/dp/B00028ZLD6/ref=pd_sim_petsupplies_4


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## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

geeze, Jeromeit! Thats a wonderful scape you have! As someone already suggested, I'm not so sure that I would fill it either. That is too cool!


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## al4n (Nov 18, 2008)

wow, ive just read from the beginning and it has made nice progress.. love it..!


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## kwheeler91 (May 26, 2009)

Quit being a chicken and get some water in this bad boy  I feel like its one of those reoccuring dreams where you almost get what you want but you keep waking up right before it happens.


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

youjettisonme said:


> You can just go to any local pet store and buy the dog dewormer that has fenbendazole. Won't harm your plants at all.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Panacur-Canine-Dewormer-1-gram/dp/B00028ZLD6/ref=pd_sim_petsupplies_4


Thanks! I'll check it out



crazydaz said:


> geeze, Jeromeit! Thats a wonderful scape you have! As someone already suggested, I'm not so sure that I would fill it either. That is too cool!


Thanks! Yea kinda scared to fill it myself.



kwheeler91 said:


> Quit being a chicken and get some water in this bad boy  I feel like its one of those reoccuring dreams where you almost get what you want but you keep waking up right before it happens.


Totally feels like that dream



al4n said:


> wow, ive just read from the beginning and it has made nice progress.. love it..!


Thanks!!


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

kwheeler91 said:


> Quit being a chicken and get some water in this bad boy  I feel like its one of those reoccuring dreams where you almost get what you want but you keep waking up right before it happens.


 
Bwahahahaha :flick:


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Craigthor said:


> Bwahahahaha :flick:


Lol of course you'd agree


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## Lil' Swimz$ (Jul 24, 2010)

Omg! That's absolutely sick. It will look cool filled but man does it look cool now!

Subscribed.


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Lil' Swimz$ said:


> Omg! That's absolutely sick. It will look cool filled but man does it look cool now!
> 
> Subscribed.


Thanks! I hope it'll do fine under water.


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## Tyger (Dec 9, 2010)

Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! (rhythmic chanting - lol)


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## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

Yeah, Jeromeit! When is the filling supposed to start?? We have a right to know!


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Lol I will let u all know as soon as I get a hold of my rig. There have been a few mishaps along the way. =(


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## Bahugo (Apr 18, 2011)

Any pic updates?


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

No pic updates yet just did a few trims here and there but I plan to fill it soon... Maybe in 2 weeks. So fill er up and bump the co2 right? Is that all? Should I shorten the photoperiod as well??


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## kwheeler91 (May 26, 2009)

Has it been the longest 2 weeks in history or is it just me?


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Lol agreed been one set back after another ugh


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## kwheeler91 (May 26, 2009)

Lol dont rush it. Your patience is more withstanding than most im sure.


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

kwheeler91 said:


> Lol dont rush it. Your patience is more withstanding than most im sure.


Thanks for the boost in confidence bro hehe.. I got some chillmasters from aquatek but they didn't fit my rim so this is what I did to them..


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## travis.808 (Apr 6, 2009)

Dang! I just read through 10 pages hoping for the pot of gold at the end! WATER WATER WATER!!!:icon_mrgr:icon_mrgr


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

Yeah what the heck? Fill that thing!

Saweeeeeet looking tank though. I've never seen an emmersed tank looks so cool. Before you fill it you should wash down the glass and lose the plastic wrap to get some nice shots.

GJDM


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## Hcancino (Jun 18, 2011)

I vote for banning him unless/until he fills it!!!! :biggrin:


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## Daximus (Oct 19, 2011)

Tyger said:


> Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! Fill it! (rhythmic chanting - lol)





crazydaz said:


> Yeah, Jeromeit! When is the filling supposed to start?? We have a right to know!





Bahugo said:


> Any pic updates?





kwheeler91 said:


> Has it been the longest 2 weeks in history or is it just me?





travis.808 said:


> Dang! I just read through 10 pages hoping for the pot of gold at the end! WATER WATER WATER!!!:icon_mrgr:icon_mrgr





jcgd said:


> Yeah what the heck? Fill that thing!





Hcancino said:


> I vote for banning him unless/until he fills it!!!! :biggrin:



This. :biggrin:


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Lol alright alright! Soon ladies & gentlemen soon... 

Bad news:
My hc on the right island is mysteriously dieing out.. I don't think it'll bounce back until after the fill.. It may well just die off completely.. It was doin great until a few days ago then it just started yellowing and browning.. And ideas guys?

















Good news:
Finally got my Apex controller, just waiting for a few more parts and the co2 rig..


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## looking4roselines (Mar 28, 2008)

When are you going to flood this? I am itching to send them crypts over so they can start growing in your tank.


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## rockwood (Jun 19, 2010)

I've never dry started, nor have I had HC so take this for what it is lol....

If its dead, its dead. It won't be coming back and will only continue to spread. Trim it back to it's healthy growth. Then I'd mix up some water with KNO3 and micros to spray it with and see if that will help improve it. I've seen people here do that before and get great growth. 

That's probably what I'd do anyways....


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Sorry for the wait Xue, trying to fill up asap. 

Rockwood, I think thats what im gonna do.. but im gonna wait it out and observe it to see if it gets better.. I'll give it till monday with close observation. 

On a side note.. I was thinking.. if I purchased a marina slim 20 to act as a probe holder for my PH probe and my Temperature Probe... do you guys think it'll be worth it? It might be better for clutter.. and extra filtration wont be bad... Its thin enough to fit in between the wall and the tank... Do you think the temperature in the HOB and the tank would be drastically different?


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

Shouldn't be.


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

U think that's a good idea bro?


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## mahko (Dec 10, 2011)

From the start of this thread to now, I have started 2 tanks. One was started 2 weeks before Christmas and the other just went through a 30 day dry start and I filled it 2 days ago. 

Not only does it feel liberating to finally fill it... It looks like a completely different tank because of the depth perception change. The added water also create reflections off the sides (depending on where you look) and transforms it to a completely different tank!

Fill that sucker!


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Yeahhhhhh boyyyyy!!!!!!
Hopefully filling Saturday morning!!!!


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## GMYukonon24s (May 3, 2009)

Nice CO2 setup.


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

Jeeze it's been 2 hours and this thing isn't setup yet. LOL


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## Ashtree68 (Mar 21, 2012)

Very cool tank! Can't wait to see it filled.


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## kwheeler91 (May 26, 2009)

Finally! Anyone taking bets he chickens out? J/k  gonna be sweet


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

Ok I'll be that guy.....

It's Saturday morning!!!!!! Is it wet yet?

One of the few tanks around here I'm subscribed too, very nice dry start Jeromeit, you have some serious patience roud:


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Lmao!!! Trying not to chicken out here guys... I'm really nervous. Anyway, I'll be running over to home depot shortly to pick up some extra screws and allenwrenches.. Then I'll go to my lfs to pick up some extra tubing.. And I'll be ready to fill. Hope it all goes smoothly wish me luck!!!!!


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Oh man!!!! Is it finally going to happen??? For real this time???**Grabs a beer and sits back to watch** We have all been waiting for this one!!!


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## GMYukonon24s (May 3, 2009)

Do you have any pics before you fill it?


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

Is it full yet? LOL


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## radioman (Oct 29, 2007)

Can't wait to see it full!


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Sneak peek


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## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

delicious! Any problems so far??


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

AWESOME!!! Good job Jerome! This is going to be stellar to see this fill in. Dont be nervous, we all know youll lose a couple things, and have to move a couple things, but its still a VERY sweet scape bro


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Thanks guys! More shots to come soon... For some reason my drop checker is still blue. How many bps do u guys use? Im pumping like over 6 bps into a carbon doser... Does that seem right?


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

Finally! I was on the verge of unsubscribging from this thread :hihi:


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## GMYukonon24s (May 3, 2009)

Nice sneak peek. Thanks


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Jeromeit said:


> Thanks guys! More shots to come soon... For some reason my drop checker is still blue. How many bps do u guys use? Im pumping like over 6 bps into a carbon doser... Does that seem right?


Depends how long you have had it going. Give it a day to see. And check your circulation to make sure its going all the way around. How much pressure and what diffuser are you using again?


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## Ozydego (Aug 29, 2011)

Just to ask the obvious question, what solution did you use with your blue? Are you using a tested 4dKH solution?


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

Looking sweet now where are the rest of the pics.. .LOL


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Not really happy with how the anubias came out. My girl worked really hard to get em on though.. Ehh I'll give em some time to grow in and see where to go from there..

















As fit 4dkh solution, it finally turned green. I'm using the cal aqua labs solution that came with the double drop checker.


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Also what do u guys suggest for photoperiod? I'm doing an 8 hour photoperiod right now with 6 hours of light at full blast. I have a tek lamp 4 bulbs at 54 watts each. Ideas?


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

I'd start there as faras lighting goes. As for the Anubias give it some time, after I moved my Nana from teh high light 150 to the 220 a bunch of it died back but within days I've got lots of new green leaves showing up filling it back in already.


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

And if it doesn't work you can send it my way. LOL


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

Jeromeit said:


> Also what do u guys suggest for photoperiod? I'm doing an 8 hour photoperiod right now with 6 hours of light at full blast. I have a tek lamp 4 bulbs at 54 watts each. Ideas?


Maybe 3 hours with 2 bulbs, 2 hour with 4 and end with 2 hours with 2? 

I did something like that before and it was pretty nice. Of course you can adjust your photoperiod as you go. 

Is that anubias nana petite? I'll take'em if you don't like them. Craig has enough plants already :hihi:


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

jkan0228 said:


> Maybe 3 hours with 2 bulbs, 2 hour with 4 and end with 2 hours with 2?
> 
> I did something like that before and it was pretty nice. Of course you can adjust your photoperiod as you go.
> 
> Is that anubias nana petite? I'll take'em if you don't like them. Craig has enough plants already :hihi:


Never! :icon_mrgr


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## Tyger (Dec 9, 2010)

Absolutely beautiful tank - finally filled


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

I would stick to the photoperiod that you've got and adjust it as needed from there. If you start to get a bunch of algae either raise the light or shorten the photoperiod. If you dont have many problems after a few months you could always lenghten it a bit too. Red plants really like a long photoperiod but I would assume you have some algae battles to fight first with a new tank.


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

So I'm at a loss. My plants seemed to be doing fine last week but this week I've seen a lot of melting. I can't seem to keep co2 levels up even when I'm blasting co2 into my carbondoser ext500 reactor. First the stauro porto Velho started to fade.. Then a patch of ug it was touching. Should I trim all the dead spots away? Is that what is causing this chain reaction? I've started to see some bga here and there and some brush algae.. Ive increased flow in the tank to address that.. Added 5 Amano shrimp to try to keep the decay at bay. Should I add more? Anyway I've also started dosing EI and stem plants seem to be doing very well. Temp is at 77f.. My gh and kh are pretty high according to my test kit 12dkh gh and 9dkh kh.. Ammonia is 0 and ph is at 6.48(right now at least) in the beginning, the ph would go as low as 5.8 but for some reason I'm not getting any of that anymore.

Someone please enlighten me.. 
Here are pics of the melting plants...























Best,
Jerome


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

Double up on your Nitrates should help with the BGA, if it is fishless this moment double all your dosing and keep the co2 cranked. Several plants will under a shift now that you got it submerged and it can take a couple weeks to see the change. Sit back, grab a cold one and enjoy the ride. Give it a few more weeks to really settle in and keep up with your dosing you'll be golden.


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Man I wish I didn't add fauna already but I did.. For some reason I can't even get the drop checker green even at 4bps in a carbondoser ext500. How should my strategy change now?


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## Ashok (Dec 11, 2006)

This looks very promising, can't wait to see it filled in and matured!


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

Jeromeit said:


> Man I wish I didn't add fauna already but I did.. For some reason I can't even get the drop checker green even at 4bps in a carbondoser ext500. How should my strategy change now?


Don't worry about the drop checker watch the fish and slowly turn it up until you see the fish at the surface then back it down a bit, make sure you are home when you do this so you don't gas them out. Double dosing ferts won't hurt the fish just don't skip your weekly 50% water change.


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

I wouldn't stress over the melting. The plants need to adjust from emmersed to immersed growth.


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## Tyger (Dec 9, 2010)

*Best Advice - Don't Panic, Natural Adjustment Period, Key Is Stablize, Waterflow*

In all honesty, I think that you have to remember that you have created a radical shift in the environment moving from a ideal air-based environment to a unstable water-based environment (unstable, not because you are doing anything wrong, but filling, adding fauna, and natural tank adjustments following first fill). I think that the worst thing that you can do now is - panic. 

First, I think that you should remind yourself that all tanks undergo a period of adjustment and cycling during the first 2-4 (sometimes 5) weeks. It is normal. Plants, especially finicky ones, are going to react... just as you are seeing. Second, given the major environmental shift (atmo to hydro plus parameter shifts), I think that the best thing you can do is provide a stable environment - meaning decide, based on your knowledge, what you believe would be a CO2 and Fert rates for your size tank and species, and stick with it! Third, I think that you should not panic. Fourth, BGA is something to keep an eye-on though, once the tank stablizes, it might just go away. Fourth, don't panic. Fifth, I think that you can trim-off/remove dying and decaying plants to help stablized the environment and you can watch the parameters, but only watch the parameters, if they do not make you stress/panic! Sixth, don't panic. Seventh, rather than looking at this as a CO2 and fert issue, have you considered _water flow_ - what is the _water flow _like in the tank in general, in the spots that are struggling, and it is one of the easiest things to change and should help with the cycling (and might help w/BGA) - improving waterflow, especially in dead-flow spots, can make a big impact, especially in large tanks where water flow can be a big issue, and does not involve chemical adjustments that can destablize the environment in serious way. Eighth, and really important... relax and observe make some notes and learn from the experience... it's going to be a 2-4(5) week period of adjustment - don't miss the opportunity to learn. 

In most case, I think that your plants, especially those with a good root system, will bounce back ... after melting away and such. In some cases, you might loose a species or two as differences in air and water environments might be different enough that your water environment is a little too different. If so, look at the additional space, as room to explore and try something different. 

Dry-starting an aquarium comes with some nice benefits, especially, in terms of building nice growth and rooting; however, the shift from emmersed to immersed environment involves a significant transition and shock to the tank - it's a natural part of the process. In summary, I suggest that you don't panic, decide on rates-levels (CO2 & ferts) and then strive provide as stable an environment as possible (resist the urge to tweek or adjust), take a serious look at water flow in tank and in rough spots, trim and remove as appropriate, and observe and learn and, in the event of space opening-up in a few spots (after giving 3-5 weeks to see whether life returns, look at it as a chance to try something new . Panic - no, stable environment, good waterflow, and allowing things to adjust naturally - yes.

Now, take a breath and relax... remember it is a hobby to enjoy.


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Lol thanks for your reply guys.. More news... 

Okay so it seems to be gettin worse... More and more of the carpet is fading here are some pics 








last week







this week

I have no idea what to do... All other plants seem fine!


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## rockwood (Jun 19, 2010)

Maybe a water flow issue in that particular spot? Is it in the center of the tank or off to one side? I have a center spot that's about 4 inches wide in the direct center of the tank that consistently gets BGA. It's definitely a flow problem, even though I've had a Koralia pointed directly at it before. No where else in the tank has that particular algae.


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

I thought that too.. but it cant be.. I have 3 powerheads 2 at 425gph and 1 at 500gph plus 2 eheim 2217s running


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## kwheeler91 (May 26, 2009)

Anaerobic spot maybe?


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

hmm well i ended up cutting about a 12x4 piece of dieing UG out in hopes that the death wont spread.. the UG further to the right of the spot is growing in very well.. hope it fills in with time.


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## Brownthumb07 (Dec 8, 2009)

I had that same reactor with my 2217s and it slowed down my flow something horrible. On my 65g tall I'm using about 5-6 bps to get my drop checker to lime green. The outflow on the reactor is terrible though in comparison to the other 2217 I have on the same tank.


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## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

Sorry to hear about the UG, pal! That's a stinker! I too have had problems with UG in the past.....it's growing really nicely for weeks, and then it melts away for no apparent reason. Did you add, or recently increase the frequency of, your ferts, by chance? It can be sensitive to fertilizers, and is prone to "burning."


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

mmm.. crazydaz.. I have increased the frequency of ferts.... interesting.. well I cut away quite a bit of it.. and still have about half of its original mass left.. which is growing quite nicely.. so hopefully I'll get a comeback.. if not, ehh i guess it'll be time to find a new foreground lol

by the way cool that you support kiva =] 

brownthumb.. the flow thing isnt really bothering me now as I have quite a few powerheads right now.. 3 to be exact, moving about 1400 gallons per hour in my tank combined.. I'll be taking one out though and adding in an eheim 1103 needle wheel pump and run it on a separate loop on a 2215 to get extra filtration + more flow + better co2 distribution hehe.. bit of an overkill but.. ehh i like overkilling things lol


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## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

Jeromeit....it seems very sensitive to environmental changes. It's not the fertilizers necessarily as much as it is the "concentration" of fertilizers that soured it a little. I know Tom Barr has it in his tank and does EI dosing. I would recommend that you increase your CO2 and be a little more gradual with increasing the ferts. It should be fine.

Thanks re: Kiva, Bro!


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## Tyger (Dec 9, 2010)

Honestly, I like your current thinking... remove the melting and dying stuff and allow the healthy growth a chance to reclaim the spot. It might be some of the other neighboring foreground type plants move into the area. If not... then you might turn-over the soil in the spot and add some root tabs before trying something different. After that, well, I think that Glossostigma elatinoides might be a nice replacement choice though there are a few options that would look great! Frankly, I like your thinking (good mindset) ~ stay the course. Oh, and remember something very important ~ overall, you have a fantastic set-up... don't loose site of the great overall accomplishment and the beautiful tank.

~Tyger~

PS: Heck, in the worst case, remove soil and add white or black sand and tell folks it was key to obtaining critical artistic balance for you... hehe (nudge-wink-tease). Peace and keep-up the great work!


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Haha thanks guys I appreciate the optimism here lol.. Anyways I need more advice.. Co2 seems fine, i'm seeing explosive growth but on some plants I'm noticing needle holes.. And leggy growth.. Not compact.. And ideas? I dose double the EI suggestion kno3 khpo4 for macro millers for micro.. 

Also seeing a little brush algae here and there and some green algae spots etc etc... Tips for a underwater newb???


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

green spot let it run for a few weeks and it will run its course and die. Brush could be do to low flow in that area of the tank.

Caraig


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Weird.. It's like right in front of my low spray bar and also in front of one of my power heads lol I'm about to just nuke this tank with a 1k gph pump lol tornado!!!!! Lol but seriously... This kinda sucks lol


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/algae.htm


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Lol yeah bro that's like my bible.. But I can't seem to get anything right so far lol more like I don't have time until the weekend.. Ehh how about the leggy growth and needle holes? Sound like a deficiency to you?


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

leggy growth sounds like not enought light, but pin holes can be a deficiency I forget which one though.

Craig


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Hmm maybe my bulbs need a replacing? 4 t5ho over a 72 gallon seems pretty high to me... Or do I need to upgrade? :\


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

How old are the bulbs and what spectrums? Should be more then super plenty


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## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

Potassium deficiency leads to pinholes in the leaves....... 

I don't think it's the bulbs either, unless they are getting to the 18-24 month range.


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Hmmm maybe dose as much khpo4 as kno3 then? Weird the bulbs are like 5 months old. Though one of my giesmann middays failed and I had to buy a ge starcoat 6500k.. More blue kinda don't like it. But other than that the aquafloras and remaining midday bulb seems fine...


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## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

It's not the light, then!!! That's about how old mine are at this point, too....no growth issues going on here!


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Hmmm I wonder what it could be... Maybe my tank is telling me it wants those LEDs I've been eyeing lmao


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## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

Errr...yeah! That MUST be what is going on!!


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

what does the inside of the eheim 1103 supposed to look like behind the back plate? I just got mine and it looked like this... 








now this is obviously not normal is it?


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

probably just hte epoxy sealant that makes it waterproof


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

So u mean this guy is gonna leak on me? Ugh


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

shouldn't that is why they epoxy seal the motor so you can use it fully submersed. LOL


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

.... brain fail.. lol ladies and gents... disregard stupid question. Thank you.


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

Been a long day huh. lmao now go fine me some meeboldii why don't ya...


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

[inserting new stupid question]
why does it smell bad?
[end new stupid question]


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

Was it used? Saltwater? Protein Skimmer? IF yes used, saltwater and protein skimmer I would give it a good soaking in vinegar.


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

ill do one better and run it in 1:9 bleach to water.. good idea? lol


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

that'll work, vinegar will break down and salt build up it may have in it.

Craig


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Alright well.. im returning the 1103 and have two choices to make from here... buy a new 1103... which hopefully will be significantly more quiet.. or buy a mag12 or 18 at a cheaper price and plumb it to 4 outputs so I can get rid of some powerheads as well.. thoughts anyone?


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

Mag 18.


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Lol I should start a poll... Hehe not like anyone will participate


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## Dutchworks (Feb 11, 2012)

Mag 18 fractioning. will push 1200 gal/hr @ 5 ft head.


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

Still taht will be a ton of flow for a 72g tank. Just saying a mag 9 or 12 fractioning would be better suited...


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

I agree.. But the mag 18 is cheaper! But I did find a regular mag 12 for 50... Should I jump on it and just swap the impeller?


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Change of plans! Getting a 2260 now lol


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

Might as well get the 2262


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Lol I wish got a crazy deal on it


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## rockwood (Jun 19, 2010)

You won't regret it  I love mine.


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

What's at 2260? Is that a return pump?


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

An eheim 2260. Canister filter


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Picking it up tomorrow! Plus a 2028


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

Thata gonna be some kick a** filtration!


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Haha honestly I dunno if I'll keep the 2028 it came with the package but I like my 2217s


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

I'll take it(for the price you got it) if you don't want it 

Unless it's like super old and pushes 5gph then i'll pass :hihi:


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

It turned out to be a 2250... But for the DIY possibilities I had to take it lol now thinking about adding a tunze 1073.04 on it for better energy efficiency










Anyways here's some updated shots 
















Having some problems with bba and clado.. Dunno wtf to do lol kinda frustrating... Dosing EI light only 8hrs lots and lots of co2 and air when lights off... Any ideas? Tons of flow too...


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

Wow. That's so full! Very nice growth man.

I would reduce your lighting to 6-7 hours. 

What lighting do you have again?


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

4t5ho bulbs on full for 6hrs half for 2...


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## kwheeler91 (May 26, 2009)

Try a split photoperiod. 4 on 4 off 4 on. I have been doing this for a couple years now and it works really well for me. Also some glut would help with both of those algae types. I think rootmedic sells a product thats cheaper than excel.


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## kwheeler91 (May 26, 2009)

Tank looks really good btw


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## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

Jeromeit-- I think that the tank is still evolving to an submersed set up.....it's going to take a while, so just be patient. Not sure what to tell you to do about your algae issues; you could try doing a "break" in the middle of the photoperiod, as kwheeler suggested. I think that if you try to kill your algae using Excel/Gluteraldehyde or Peroxide, you almost certainly will lose your UG. You could remove it now, and try again once the algae has subsided. It is your most likely route at this point.

It will get there, though, Bro!


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

yea.. thats what i was thinking... UG seems to be okay.. but am hesitant to use excel (though i have a stockpile for this exact reason) because of the UG.. i was hoping that once things settle in more.. any hopefully that'll be soon.. I can just do a massive trim of BBA and Clado and call it a day... wishful thinking? lol

btw thanks for the input guys!


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## JoraaÑ (Jun 29, 2009)

Jeromeit said:


> yea.. thats what i was thinking... UG seems to be okay.. but am hesitant to use excel (though i have a stockpile for this exact reason) because of the UG.. i was hoping that once things settle in more.. any hopefully that'll be soon.. I can just do a massive trim of BBA and Clado and call it a day... wishful thinking? lol
> 
> btw thanks for the input guys!


Excel won't hurt UG if dosed accordingly. your 72 gal takes 7.2 ml/excel everyday and 5X on WC day....I won't dose that much. Issue is light...too much. 72 gal 8 hrs light...Dosing EI light WHY?? 4t5 6 hours...thus all the light is sucking co2 and plants are getting very little..where as it is suppose to be other way. Cut light to 6 hours with 2 bulbs only, increasing dosing and let the flow and co2 to be as it is...see what happens in a week or 2...If possible frequent water change(2-3X) with trimming effected plants..


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Hmm thanks joraan I'll give that a shot.. Should I use the outer 2 lights or the inner 2? Does it matter?


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

2x a week water change s60-70%, add the Excel after and then daily(35 mls per dose).

This should keep things pretty clean and knock the algae issues back.


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Thanks Tom, sadly I can't do that many waterchanges but can try if I get home at a reasonable time I'll combine both excel and less light and try to do more wcs


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## Ozydego (Aug 29, 2011)

You said the bulbs power is split? Two on for 3 hours, 2 on for the other three. I just had great luck spot treating my BBA, during the water change while water is low and the pumps are off, I used a syringe and air tubing to dose the appropriate amount of excel, but spot treated the BBA areas. This is the third day, and it is all pink and falling off... Seriously impressed that it was that easy for me. Obviously not quite as easy due to the much larger tank, but the principle is the same. Not only is the excel in the water column, but for about 5 minutes, the BBA got super dosed. Also this way you could also under dose to lessen the impact on the UG


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## kwheeler91 (May 26, 2009)

Depends on what your trying to spot treat. A lot of plants would not take well to being smothered with excel. It works underwater because it dilutes quickly but I fear it would do damage if left on at full strength.


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## Ozydego (Aug 29, 2011)

I used it on my HC carpet mostly, Anubias, java moss, java fern, and dwarf sag. The areas i treated were still submerged. I would stay away from the UG though with this treatment. The good thing about it is you can leave it just for a minute even, treating and then immediately filling which dilutes the excel. It may not work in every situation though, so take from it what you will


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## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

I would agree in using Excel if the issue was "maintaining" an low algae free environment. But to kill what you already have, you will have to overdose using Excel, and that will melt your UG.

To add another factor into the equation, I think that the real issue is how lean you are running your water column in terms of ferts. I (and plenty of other people) run high light for well over 6 hours per day (such as "this guy"); I think that the key is to keep you nutrients low by dosing less ferts EI but with more frequency, IF you are able to do so. Add in a day or two where you don't add any fertilizer via EI....that way, you won't necessarily have to do frequent water changes. Your plants should keep the water pretty clean. I change out maybe 5% of my water per week, and I have no issues.

Regardless of what anyone says, it will likely be a combination of all of these suggestions, or none of them. You will have to find the happy balance of your own system. As far as I know, these "rules" (though helpful) are not necessarily solutions to everyone's issues as each tank is it's own unique environment. What works for me may not work for you.


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## sapphoqueen (Feb 9, 2010)

liked this from the start  now is better day by day


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Thanks for the help guys, I've started spot dosing.. finals are around the corner so i havnt had time to do multiple waterchanges.. all good though.. I'll pull through haha

anyways I placed an order for two pumps a tunze 1073.40 and an eheim 1103.. now figuring out how to mount two pumps onto my 2250 will be another issue.. stay tuned haha


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## jellie (Jan 31, 2010)

Just wanted to say, I saw this tank in person back in....March? and it's such a beauty.
Hang in there, J.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

How about an update Jerome?


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Lol I'm past due.. But I promise to update once things look better.


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Quick pic


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## kribkeeper888 (Oct 8, 2011)

Nice! Ive been waiting for an update for forever, I love your dinnerplates haha. And your aquascape is as awesome as always.


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Thanks! I'm planning in redoing the foreground a bit tho since the Amano shrimp keep pulling hc out... -.- sorry for the late update lol just been real busy.


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## kribkeeper888 (Oct 8, 2011)

yeah, amanos can be pesky on occasion. But I absolutly LOVE the depth and complexity you have going in there right now. looks awesome


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

Thanks kribkeeper. Update video. The discus have spawned... Video of fry here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fqmp_5aOSJk&feature=youtube_gdata_player


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

awesome! cool to see that in an awesome scape! well done!


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

Its about time. LOL


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## Cobfreak (Aug 2, 2010)

Just read through this thread - very nice thread, and beautiful scape and tank.


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

setup now for sale


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## tommypham (Jul 10, 2012)

very nice hardscape :fish:


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## fishboy199413 (Jan 20, 2010)

What you are selling it, why? I really like this tank


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## Jeromeit (Sep 30, 2011)

lol yea, selling it... moving to a new place...
got a 125 gallon tank ;]


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## FDNY911 (Dec 6, 2009)

Hey Bro how you been? Looking good! Upgrading to a 125, nice! I saw you got a 230?


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