# Fish that can handle 86 degrees?



## Kamivy (Jan 3, 2010)

Hi there, I'm looking for stocking ideas, I have a 100 gallon tank I'll be setting up in the next few weeks, (heavily planted low tech) and so far I'm planning on adding (after cycling):

15 cardinal tetras
15 black widow tetras
15 rummynose

3 bristlenose 
3 SAE

? Some larger feature fish (angels possibly but I would purchase as babies and maybe get 5)

I was planning on some zebra danio's as they are great active fish that don't get too shy, but my tank regularly sits at 30 degrees celcius (86 farenheit) in summer, and it's extremely difficult to lower it - I know zebras don't like water that warm. I'm hoping the other tetras I've chosen will be ok with it. Anyone have any opinions? Also, are there any other options for larger feature fish to suit my temperature range besides angels? I know that if any pair up I will probably have to get rid of the rest and keep one pair, which I'd be ok with, I'm just worried about agression levels with the schooling fish if they started breeding. I know discus would love my water parameters, but I'm not quite ready for discus yet (in terms of confidence and experience, not to mention dollars lol) Maybe down the track when it's been up and running a couple of years and is stable.

Any comments, suggestions and ideas would be most welcome.


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## Burks (May 21, 2006)

German Blue Rams should be just fine at those temps. I keep them at 82F and they do awesome. They aren't "large", but they are great show pieces. I bet you can keep two pairs easily in a 100g. That's a lot of floor space for them.


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## skystrife (Feb 20, 2010)

Strictly from the literature (as I have not kept them yet, but plan to), German Blue Rams would be an excellent choice for your tank. You have several dither schools to make them less shy and these Rams are really kept at their best in very warm water (the average temperature of the pools they were found inhabiting in the wild were about 30C, sometimes higher [South American Dwarf Cichlids, Mayland and Bork]).

With a 100 gallon I would bet you could get away with two pairs, but your mileage may vary (they ARE Cichlids after all, and get very territorial during breeding). However, if you kept a male and several females you'd probably get spawning like clockwork (there are reports of several members here having them spawn in harems--a different female every two weeks).

Edit: beat to the punch, it appears.


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## Kamivy (Jan 3, 2010)

Thanks for your replies, I actually added a pair of GBR to the list after I made my post, so I'm very happy to have that idea backed up! I do love them, they are gorgeous. I was just concerned that having them in a heavily planted tank I would probably hardly see them! - Thus not really a feature fish  Perhaps if I had the stock list above, a pair of GBR's, and had one pair of angelfish. That would be fully stocked. Would the angels and GBR's be ok together? I'm assuming if the GBR's stick mostly to the bottom, they shouldn't come across each other too often.

One other question:
SAE's apparently like temps around 25 deg. celcius. Are my summer temps going to stress them too much? Anyone kept SAE at 30 degrees before?


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## stpeteplanter (Dec 30, 2009)

GBRs as mentioned will do fine and are very impressive when they color up.

a little unconvtenitnal but I think african butterfly fish would do fine as well, and I consider them a feature fish. I just got one for my shrimp tank and he's awesome. Im on my phone now but ill post a photo of him when I get on my pc tomorrow.


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## Burks (May 21, 2006)

They won't be shy. Mine were very bold in a tank full of active fish. Heavily planted might actually make them MORE active, as they will feel safer.


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

Here are some fish that I have kept at 80*F+. Whether they will go to 86* might be questionable, several are listed by Baensch as OK to 28*C (82*F), some as high as 30*C:
Discus
SAE
Yoyo Loaches (mine, half grown, ate Neon Tetras)
Clown Loaches
Several Gouramis (*Moonlights especially)
_*Brochis splendens_
Striped Raphael
Angelfish (Known predators: I would not combine them with the smaller fish)
*Royal Pleco (Panaque nigrolineatus)
Senegal Bicher (PREDATOR!)
African Brown Knife
Black Ghost Knife
Parkinsoni Rainbows
*_Yasuhikotakia sidthimunki_

* = Probably a reasonable choice for a community tank with small fish.


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## Kamivy (Jan 3, 2010)

Diana - Wow that Senegal Bichir is one scary customer! I googled it and found a picture of one swallowing a large fish whole lol, definitely not one for my tank :biggrin:

My thinking with the angels was to acquire them last, and buy them as small as I can find, and hope that due to growing up with the tetras they won't see them as a food source.... I know it's not guaranteed to work, but I thought it might be worth a try?

I love the look of Ember tetras against the green, but they are just far too tiny and would be far too tempting to taste!


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## Brownthumb07 (Dec 8, 2009)

Keyhole Cichlids would be a nice addition also. They are rather peaceful for cichlids.


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

In summer you should use a few computer style fans 24/7 to cool your tank. You should easily be able to drop it 5 degrees.


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## blackandyellow (Jul 1, 2009)

Discus love that high temperature and would be better company for the mix of fish you want to add.

I kept zebra danios at 80° F and they were perfect. They are very hardy and adaptable, maybe you could try out with just a pair and see how they fair out, if they don´t like it then take them out, if they adapt well then get some more.

They are great little fish, super hyper and rambuctious not shy at all


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## Kamivy (Jan 3, 2010)

Hmmm. After reading another thread on this forum where people gave their numerous experiences of their angelfish eating their tetras I'm starting to wonder if I really want angelfish - I definitely want schools of tetras, and don't want to just stick with the big ones like colombians. Many have said that the tetras their angel grew up with were safe, but when they tried to add new ones of the same species they got eaten. Given that cardinals are 8 dollars a piece over here, that would be a very expensive snack.  And I want to be free to add new fish when necessary or desired without fear of them being consumed. I suppose that really only leaves me with Discus for large peaceful feature fish? I know they can eat smaller tetras too, but they're so slow I wouldn't think that they'd give the tetras too much trouble. Grrr. Oh well, guess I'll worry about that later, still have to set up the tank and plant it out first!


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## TwFG2 (Mar 2, 2010)

I used to keep a fan on my tank to cool it, usually cools it down somewhat.


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## Kamivy (Jan 3, 2010)

over_stocked said:


> In summer you should use a few computer style fans 24/7 to cool your tank. You should easily be able to drop it 5 degrees.


I have glass lids on my tank underneath the hood, I'm assuming I would have to take these off? I like them because they contain all the condensation and keep it off the timber. But I would like to cool it down a bit when it's really hot. Would you suggest having the fans mounted on the side of the hood just for circulation (this would remove a lot of the heat produced by the lights) or do they need to be blowing directly on the surface of the water?


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

Kamivy said:


> I have glass lids on my tank underneath the hood, I'm assuming I would have to take these off? I like them because they contain all the condensation and keep it off the timber. But I would like to cool it down a bit when it's really hot. Would you suggest having the fans mounted on the side of the hood just for circulation (this would remove a lot of the heat produced by the lights) or do they need to be blowing directly on the surface of the water?


Pointing at the water would improve cooling significantly. Running in the fan would help to reduce added heat from lights. What is your ambient room temp? 

Fans like these work great. http://cgi.ebay.com/Metal-Halide-Aq...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4cedde198e

They obviously will speed up evaporation, but seriously, water costs pennies.


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## Kamivy (Jan 3, 2010)

over_stocked said:


> Pointing at the water would improve cooling significantly. Running in the fan would help to reduce added heat from lights. What is your ambient room temp?
> 
> Fans like these work great. http://cgi.ebay.com/Metal-Halide-Aq...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4cedde198e
> 
> They obviously will speed up evaporation, but seriously, water costs pennies.


Ambient room temp is often between 30-35 degrees (celcius), Once it gets past that I usually put on the air con which brings the room temp down to 25 and the tank to around 28-29 which is good, but I don't want to have to put on the air when I'm out all day just for the fish tank. Those fans look great, will have to see if I can try and source some here in Australia. Otherwise I guess I'll just have to ask my hubby to mount some pc fans into my hood.

And it's not the cost of the water thats the problem, it's the fact that when we run out, we have none! (Rainwater only, and mostly drought-stricken) So every drop counts. But I think I'll give it a go.


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

Kamivy said:


> Ambient room temp is often between 30-35 degrees (celcius), Once it gets past that I usually put on the air con which brings the room temp down to 25 and the tank to around 28-29 which is good, but I don't want to have to put on the air when I'm out all day just for the fish tank. Those fans look great, will have to see if I can try and source some here in Australia. Otherwise I guess I'll just have to ask my hubby to mount some pc fans into my hood.
> 
> And it's not the cost of the water thats the problem, it's the fact that when we run out, we have none! (Rainwater only, and mostly drought-stricken) So every drop counts. But I think I'll give it a go.


Is the rainwater for you whole house? Is this by choice or necessity. That is pretty cool, but not an option here in the frigid north. I have 4 foot of snow outside right now....


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## Kamivy (Jan 3, 2010)

Yes, for our whole house. By necessity. There are no town water pipes running to my country area. Save your own water or go without! Lol, yes, we're lucky it doesnt snow, or I'd have a 7000 gallon ice block in the back yard!! Although I have often mused how many fish I could keep in a 7000 gallon water tank......until i imagine drinking their poop and gag


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## F22 (Sep 21, 2008)

back to the point at hand.. I am going to second the discus idea... however I am going to mention one of my absolute favorite fish for this tank...

Laetacara curviceps

they are simply beautiful, they will get a bit larger than your rams, but will not be aggressive in the tank towards any of the mentioned residents, I had kept a pair in a mixed discus tank, with melon discus, koi angels and a huge school of rummy nose, they were perfect, never chased anything or nipped a fin, in fact, the angels were more aggressive then the curviceps when they spawned...

just wanted to throw my 2 cents

F


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## stpeteplanter (Dec 30, 2009)

Kamivy said:


> Yes, for our whole house. By necessity. There are no town water pipes running to my country area. Save your own water or go without! Lol, yes, we're lucky it doesnt snow, or I'd have a 7000 gallon ice block in the back yard!! Although I have often mused how many fish I could keep in a 7000 gallon water tank......until i imagine drinking their poop and gag


Dude, come to America. We have city water here. 

Lol.


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## F22 (Sep 21, 2008)

yea, but we don't have wild bearded dragons, australian leaftail geckos, and #########!

im going there... haha


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Another fish for your warm water list are Sterbai Cories.

If you stock all the smaller fish first, and then add angels as juveniles last, I think you'll minimize any eating tetra issues.


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## TheRac25 (Nov 5, 2008)

Kamivy said:


> 15 cardinal tetras


more than 15, 50 to start! just a suggestion


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## Minsc (Jul 9, 2006)

I've often had my tank hit 86f during the day for weeks at a time, and never lost a fish because of it, though they will get a bit twitchy, and possibly jump at times. Shrimp are another story altogether, they drop like flies...

I've kept various rasboras, killies, rainbows, plecos, otos, cories, dwarf cichlids, gouramis, etc. and the heat may have bothered some a bit, but never did any of them in. 

Does your tank cool off at night? The night time temp drop (up to about 8f) always seemed to help things. As stated above, fans can drop the temp by a number of degrees through evaporative cooling. In a heat wave, it can also help to turn off the lights and increase surface agitation, with water changes using cooler water being another option.

The methods for evaporative cooling may evaporate maybe 10 gallons a week in a 100g tank as a rough estimate. I certainly hope that is within the amount you have available, and at any rate, I commend you for being able to live with just your rainwater supply. That is very impressive:thumbsup:


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## Kamivy (Jan 3, 2010)

stpeteplanter said:


> Dude, come to America. We have city water here.
> 
> Lol.


Ha ha no thanks, can't stand the taste of city water!! Yuck!!!


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## Kamivy (Jan 3, 2010)

TheRac25 said:


> more than 15, 50 to start! just a suggestion


Yes, I'd originally planned 50. Lets see, at 8 bucks a piece that makes it ...oooh, about $400. Agh!!! Therefore am starting with 15


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## Kamivy (Jan 3, 2010)

Minsc said:


> Does your tank cool off at night? The night time temp drop (up to about 8f) always seemed to help things. As stated above, fans can drop the temp by a number of degrees through evaporative cooling. In a heat wave, it can also help to turn off the lights and increase surface agitation, with water changes using cooler water being another option.
> 
> The methods for evaporative cooling may evaporate maybe 10 gallons a week in a 100g tank as a rough estimate. I certainly hope that is within the amount you have available, and at any rate, I commend you for being able to live with just your rainwater supply. That is very impressive:thumbsup:


Thanks, it takes constant vigilance. After a while, water saving techniques become routine and you don't even think about it. I would never dream of running the tap while brushing my teeth or washing hands! Washing machine water goes onto the garden and the toilets/showers go into an underground septic system that after rigourous treatment gets fed through dripper pipes underground in the backyard.

Yeah, tank does drop by 1-2 degrees at night, would probably drop more if I uncovered it but I've always had the tank covered due to keeping a bala shark. Jumpy critter. Twice he jumped out during maintenance and was flapping around on the floor under the kitchen table, trying to catch him was like trying to pick up a bar of wet soap, lol.

Thanks for your input Laura and F22.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Kamivy said:


> Yes, I'd originally planned 50. Lets see, at 8 bucks a piece that makes it ...oooh, about $400. Agh!!! Therefore am starting with 15


PM RMC here on the forum about getting some Cardinals. I'm getting 50x for $80, shipped. He's probably got some left, or will be getting more if he's out...


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## stpeteplanter (Dec 30, 2009)

lauraleellbp said:


> PM RMC here on the forum about getting some Cardinals. I'm getting 50x for $80, shipped. He's probably got some left, or will be getting more if he's out...


Just curious, you figure they'd survive a trip to the land down under? It seems like that'd seal their fate to me.


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## stpeteplanter (Dec 30, 2009)

oh, and it just ocured to me, what about aquarium chillers op? I know they use em on reef tanks. I think they may be pretty expensive though, maybe you could build a diy with the guts of a refrigerator and control them temp with flow and a heater, then you could keep whatever you want.


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## agoins (Nov 2, 2009)

ever thought about running an inline external water cooler of some sort? 

I wonder if an aluminum transmission cooler would hurt anything? 

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/BMM-70264/


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## ovenmit331 (Mar 27, 2007)

agoins said:


> ever thought about running an inline external water cooler of some sort?
> 
> I wonder if an aluminum transmission cooler would hurt anything?
> 
> http://www.summitracing.com/parts/BMM-70264/


wouldn't be able to cool below the rooms ambient temp. but if the tank is getting tons of heat from the lights, it could help.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

stpeteplanter said:


> Just curious, you figure they'd survive a trip to the land down under? It seems like that'd seal their fate to me.


Oh- whoops, I guess not, then! Didn't look to see you were in Oz...


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## toddnbecka (Sep 4, 2006)

Are there any red severums available in Oz? Unlike the green or gold varieties the reds seem to prefer higher temps. They would certainly be eye-catching, and not as delicate/fussy as discus.


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## Kamivy (Jan 3, 2010)

stpeterplanter - Yes, I've thought of a chiller, but not willing to fork out the 300-400 dollars necessary just yet. I'm not too good with diy stuff but my hubby is a sparky, so maybe I could get him to try and rig something. Figured it would be easier to try and work with what I have and get fish to suit rather than change the rest to suit the fish. I will get one if absolutely necessary, but I'll give it another summer yet to see how things go.

toddnbecka - severums are nice but I'm just getting out of a dedicated cichlid setup to focus on a heavily planted tank so I'm afraid severums may not be the best choice of inhabitants.  

laura - shame about those cardinals, even only 15 is still going to cost me over $100. Fish in the US are a lot cheaper than here in Australia, I'm very envious. I've checked out the sterbai cory's, they are quite lovely and i'm keen to have some, but will have to check if the black gravel I have planned will be smooth enough to avoid injuring their little snozzes. I looked at kuhli loaches at one time too, but again substrate is a problem. I can't find black sand over here and don't want to pay top $'s for TMS. To be honest I'm also keen on gravel so that detritus can sink down into the gravel and contribute to the MTS underneath - provide some benefit for the plants. With it sitting on top of the sand I would just have to keep sucking it out. Does this idea have any merit or is sand or gravel as good as each other as a cap?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I personally think that the "rough gravel is bad for Cories" is bunk. I caught Cories in the wild in gravel that was so sharp it hurt to walk on. The Cories were fine, and had a whole rest of the river they could have hung out in if the gravel bothered them... My own theory is that there was a bacterial infection going around a few years back that affected Cory barbels, and people blamed their substrate. I've kept Cories on Flourite for years and they've never had any barbel issues at all.

So that's my 2cents LOL


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## Kamivy (Jan 3, 2010)

That's good to hear! I'll check out the gravel anyway to be sure:thumbsup:


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## agoins (Nov 2, 2009)

ovenmit331 said:


> wouldn't be able to cool below the rooms ambient temp. but if the tank is getting tons of heat from the lights, it could help.


True, im sure it would help at night, or when she has the A/C on. 

Also, I wonder if trying to insulate the tank would help any? Putting foam along the back and on the bottom if you can?


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## fishyjoe24 (Dec 10, 2009)

what about some wild angelfish,wild discus,rams,apistos,and corys? just got to make sure the wild angelfish and wild discus are QT really good and for along time. the op is in oz land, wouldn't the goverment of oz hold them and QT them, and if they don't see them(the fish) fit enough to be in oz land, they can order the fish to be killed.


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## Kamivy (Jan 3, 2010)

fishyjoe24 said:


> what about some wild angelfish,wild discus,rams,apistos,and corys? just got to make sure the wild angelfish and wild discus are QT really good and for along time. the op is in oz land, wouldn't the goverment of oz hold them and QT them, and if they don't see them(the fish) fit enough to be in oz land, they can order the fish to be killed.


I know we have very strict quarantine laws here in Australia, I don't think I'd really like to try and import anything live. I know some people that moved here from england and brought their 2 pet dogs, they were in qt by the government for 2 or 3 months I think it was. No way I can see fish arriving in good condition after being subjected to that. Obviously fish do get imported to Australia, but I'll leave that to the big guys with all the licenses lol.


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## AquaNorth (Jan 27, 2010)

Go with Discus, great fish, vast assortment of colors. Perfect for your large tank.


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## johnnygstacks (Apr 4, 2010)

Ive kept GBR's, otto's, rummynose, and amanos, in a tank at 90 degrees while battling ich, didn't loose any of the fish


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## Borg70 (Jul 6, 2009)

try some australian desert gobies (Chlamydogobius eremius) they are very fun to watch and will survive in tempatures from 40 to 100 degrees F. They are also easy to spawn if you give them a small cave. They do well in pretty much any water as well.


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