# I need some help with CO2 build



## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

You can get an airgas Y12-215D on ebay right now for $50 best offer and it's dual stage.


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## IntotheWRX (May 13, 2016)

ahud said:


> I decided to take the leap to pressurized CO2. I have read and read and read, but regulators are still tripping me up. I would really appreciate some help.
> 
> I have read several of the debates regarding dual stage versus single. I am ready to commit to a single stage regulator and take on the additional risk. I will monitor pressure drops to minimize the risk of EOTD. The dual stage regulators are out of my price range unless I shoot for used and try to score a deal. I'm pressed for time so that is not a route I want to take.
> 
> ...


paintball co2 tank $25
aquatek paintball regulator+solenoid $90
diffuser, bubble counter and tubing $20

amazon.com


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## ahud (Mar 6, 2010)

IntotheWRX said:


> paintball co2 tank $25
> aquatek paintball regulator+solenoid $90
> diffuser, bubble counter and tubing $20
> 
> amazon.com



The aquarium is a 125 gallon

Bump:


gus6464 said:


> You can get an airgas Y12-215D on ebay right now for $50 best offer and it's dual stage.


Can you give me a link? I just see three of them at 74.99+


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## IntotheWRX (May 13, 2016)

ahud said:


> The aquarium is a 125 gallon
> 
> Bump:
> 
> Can you give me a link? I just see three of them at 74.99+


wow nice


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## ahud (Mar 6, 2010)

IntotheWRX said:


> wow nice


I just meant I thought paintball was a no go because of needing to refill all of the time.


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

ahud said:


> The aquarium is a 125 gallon
> 
> Bump:
> 
> Can you give me a link? I just see three of them at 74.99+


You can't link ebay on here. Just find an airgas y12-215d that has a best offer button and offer 50 bucks. Most will take that offer.


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## ahud (Mar 6, 2010)

gus6464 said:


> You can't link ebay on here. Just find an airgas y12-215d that has a best offer button and offer 50 bucks. Most will take that offer.


Oh, at this juncture I want to stick with a new regulator. With time constraints, I don't want to be in a situation where I need to troubleshoot a regulator.


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

ahud said:


> Oh, at this juncture I want to stick with a new regulator. With time constraints, I don't want to be in a situation where I need to troubleshoot a regulator.


Well there is no troubleshooting a regulator per say. It either works or it doesnt. The same thing can happen with a brand new one.


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## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

gus6464 said:


> You can't link ebay on here. Just find an airgas y12-215d that has a best offer button and offer 50 bucks. Most will take that offer.


You can pm a *bay link to someone.


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

Jeff5614 said:


> You can pm a *bay link to someone.


Oh really? Thought it was just blocked no matter what. Thanks for the tip.


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## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

gus6464 said:


> Oh really? Thought it was just blocked no matter what. Thanks for the tip.


It appears I was mistaken. I thought you could until I tried sending myself one and it didn't work. Quite the day, now I know that I don't know everything, lol.


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## illbethejudge (Feb 13, 2017)

I built mine thanks to the instructions provided by maryland guppy and that thing is going strong. I only had to tweak it twice and it is working flawlessly.


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## ahud (Mar 6, 2010)

illbethejudge said:


> I built mine thanks to the instructions provided by maryland guppy and that thing is going strong. I only had to tweak it twice and it is working flawlessly.


Can you tell me where to view the instructions lol?


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## ahud (Mar 6, 2010)

gus6464 said:


> Well there is no troubleshooting a regulator per say. It either works or it doesnt. The same thing can happen with a brand new one.


So what happens if the thing does not work? 

There are just soooo many options. If a dual stage regulator is what everybody is using and thats how I can get some help building then I am willing to go that route lol. I just want something I can throw together and it work!


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

ahud said:


> So what happens if the thing does not work?
> 
> There are just soooo many options. If a dual stage regulator is what everybody is using and thats how I can get some help building then I am willing to go that route lol. I just want something I can throw together and it work!



Sometimes we miss inthinking what works for us is universal. some of the choices on auctions work out well for some users but at times those choices are also for regs which are NOT for CO2. Many can change the nipple and nut to the CGA320 that we need but that is not always the case for others. Be aware that it needs to have the CGA320 meaning it is a reg intended for CO2 or we may have a struggle to change the old fitting out. Some come out okay while others are VERY difficult. Look sharp before buying! 
I find value and ease of mind to walk into the local folks who sell to beer brewers and just get a single stage with new warranty and no shipping. Works for me but then I live close to the folks selling it! 
Much depends on what/how we each find ourself doing the job. For the needs of the reg, it is pretty simple as we are not high pressure folks. Get a reg that is adjustable and will put out enough pressure to work what you intend to use. Normally very few of us go beyond 50-60 PSI. Then look to see how the meters read to get one that you can tell if you are setting it a point that you will use like seeing the difference in 22PSI or 25PSI. Meters that only have marks every 5-10 PSI are harder to reset to the same point after we change out the tank. That leaves me likeing a low pressure meter that tops out at 60 or 100PSI.


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## illbethejudge (Feb 13, 2017)

ahud said:


> Can you tell me where to view the instructions lol?


http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/9-equipment/1199234-120-gallon-co2-2.html


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## RLee (Sep 21, 2008)

Jeff5614 said:


> It appears I was mistaken. I thought you could until I tried sending myself one and it didn't work. Quite the day, now I know that I don't know everything, lol.


Use the fleabay item # 282696887207. Then just copy the # and paste it in the fleabay search window. You can find the item # in the right upper corner of the item description.


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## Kubla (Jan 5, 2014)

RLee said:


> Use the fleabay item # 282696887207. Then just copy the # and paste it in the fleabay search window. You can find the item # in the right upper corner of the item description.


Decent price for a nice regulator but it does need the nipple changed and it's another $27.25 for shipping.
Another option if you don't want to wait is to buy one of the cheaper regulator assemblies that's ready to go like a Milwaukee or Aquatek. Get a tank, set stuff up, and then shop for your regulator system. Once you get it together you can sell the other one or keep it as back up.


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## ahud (Mar 6, 2010)

Here is what I am looking at:

Single stage Regulator- https://store.cyberweld.com/smco2re...MI2MGUyeOz2gIVyY-zCh0ligHLEAQYASABEgJc5fD_BwE

15-pound Cylinder: https://beveragelements.com/beverag...linders/15-lb-co2-cylinder-steel-recertified/

Burkert soleniod: Burkert Solenoid Valve

Fabco NV-55-18 https://www.diyco2regulator.com/fabco-nv-55-18-needle-valve

I'm at $255.84 and I don't have tubing, drop checker, diffuser, or misc fittings.







Kubla said:


> Decent price for a nice regulator but it does need the nipple changed and it's another $27.25 for shipping.
> Another option if you don't want to wait is to buy one of the cheaper regulator assemblies that's ready to go like a Milwaukee or Aquatek. Get a tank, set stuff up, and then shop for your regulator system. Once you get it together you can sell the other one or keep it as back up.


That may not be a bad way to go. 

How easy is it to swap out needle valves? Say I buy a ready to go setup and a Fabco NV, would it be easy to install?


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## RLee (Sep 21, 2008)

Kubla said:


> Decent price for a nice regulator but it does need the nipple changed and it's another $27.25 for shipping.
> Another option if you don't want to wait is to buy one of the cheaper regulator assemblies that's ready to go like a Milwaukee or Aquatek. Get a tank, set stuff up, and then shop for your regulator system. Once you get it together you can sell the other one or keep it as back up.


That was just a random reg I chose to illustrate how to link an item from fleabay.


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## sdwindansea (Oct 28, 2016)

Since you have a 120g tank you will probably want to go with a reactor (Griggs, Cerges) instead of an inline or intank diffuser. Also, you could go with an inexpensive needle valve and a flow meter. Regardless, swapping out needle valves should be easy.


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## ahud (Mar 6, 2010)

Just to add another angle,

GLA Gro-1 runs $205 for everything except the cylinder. Add on the 15 pound cylinder and I would be at $280 without needing to piece anything together.


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## SininStyle (Nov 13, 2014)

just a heads up, the cylinder is probably cheaper on *bay from the same exact company. I went with a 10 pounder and it was $6 cheaper on *bay from that same exact company. Also I would skip steel if your shipping because the shipping is almost $30. If you can find the aluminum recert comparable from that same company the cylinder will be more but the shipping will be equally less.

Just trying to help get the most for ya dollars


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## ahud (Mar 6, 2010)

SininStyle said:


> just a heads up, the cylinder is probably cheaper on *bay from the same exact company. I went with a 10 pounder and it was $6 cheaper on *bay from that same exact company. Also I would skip steel if your shipping because the shipping is almost $30. If you can find the aluminum recert comparable from that same company the cylinder will be more but the shipping will be equally less.
> 
> Just trying to help get the most for ya dollars


Thanks man! Every dollar counts, I'll check that out. I have finally succumbed to following dual stage + DIY lol. 

I found a fire extinguisher place thats 20 minutes away. Can refill my tank and do it same day after 4pm for 2.40/pound CO2. So going aluminum will be worth it since I can keep my own.


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

ahud said:


> Here is what I am looking at:
> 
> Single stage Regulator- https://store.cyberweld.com/smco2re...MI2MGUyeOz2gIVyY-zCh0ligHLEAQYASABEgJc5fD_BwE
> 
> ...


I can help you build an airgas Y12-215D setup. I have three of them. It is insanely easy even if you have to swap out the cga connector. Other than the needle valve and solenoid it requires 2 extra parts which are dirt cheap at mcmaster-carr. I am actually doing a build today for one of my Y12-215Ds for a new tank so I can take pics on how it goes together. You will be surprised how insanely easy it is.


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## ahud (Mar 6, 2010)

gus6464 said:


> I can help you build an airgas Y12-215D setup. I have three of them. It is insanely easy even if you have to swap out the cga connector. Other than the needle valve and solenoid it requires 2 extra parts which are dirt cheap at mcmaster-carr. I am actually doing a build today for one of my Y12-215Ds for a new tank so I can take pics on how it goes together. You will be surprised how insanely easy it is.


I appreciate that Gus! Do you mind telling me what you typically pick them up for? I know you said offering $50 is usually a good idea. I would appreciate the pictures. 

Completely different topic, but if I want to ever branch off to running two tanks off the same reg. Is there anything I need to account for now? Might as well future proof if I am spending the cash.


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

ahud said:


> I appreciate that Gus! Do you mind telling me what you typically pick them up for? I know you said offering $50 is usually a good idea. I would appreciate the pictures.
> 
> Completely different topic, but if I want to ever branch off to running two tanks off the same reg. Is there anything I need to account for now? Might as well future proof if I am spending the cash.


It depends. If you want to run the two tanks with co2 at different times you just need 2 post body kits T'd off at the reg. If you want at same time you just need another needle valve and the same T in a different location.

Sent from my LGUS997 using Tapatalk


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

ahud said:


> I appreciate that Gus! Do you mind telling me what you typically pick them up for? I know you said offering $50 is usually a good idea. I would appreciate the pictures.
> 
> Completely different topic, but if I want to ever branch off to running two tanks off the same reg. Is there anything I need to account for now? Might as well future proof if I am spending the cash.


Got the parts in so this is basic build. The one I got on eBay already came with cga320 but if you get one with 580 all you have to do is swap for 320 nut and bolt.










At the outlet of needle valve it's up to you. I do high quality check valve to fancy bubble counter but that's up to you.

Sent from my LGUS997 using Tapatalk

Bump:


ahud said:


> I appreciate that Gus! Do you mind telling me what you typically pick them up for? I know you said offering $50 is usually a good idea. I would appreciate the pictures.
> 
> Completely different topic, but if I want to ever branch off to running two tanks off the same reg. Is there anything I need to account for now? Might as well future proof if I am spending the cash.


I have purchased all my 215Ds for $50.


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## ahud (Mar 6, 2010)

Wow thanks for that.

Where do you buy new gauges and such? I have seen a few where the PSI readouts are high and I would like a smaller readout like what PlantedRich was getting at.


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

This is what the final product looks like to give you an idea. This is currently being used on a mini-m nano tank. For that one I had to buy a cga320 nut and bolt.










Regulator - $50
Solenoid and needle valve and 12v power supply - $90
Mic fittings including cga320 nut and bolt - $24
Bubble counter - $30

Total - *$194*

Keep in mind that the build includes $40 in bubble counter and heavy duty check valve which most people don't spend that much on. That figure also includes $10 on a new cga320 nut and bolt which you may or may not need depending on what you get on e bay.

Bump:


ahud said:


> Wow thanks for that.
> 
> Where do you buy new gauges and such? I have seen a few where the PSI readouts are high and I would like a smaller readout like what PlantedRich was getting at.


Mcmaster-carr. New gauge is around 11 bucks. I like the 215D because the gauges are fine. Sure you not going to push 200psi to your tank but it's quite easy to get it to do 20-30psi.


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## ahud (Mar 6, 2010)

Is the solenoid + NV the post body kit from DIYco2reg?


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

ahud said:


> Is the solenoid + NV the post body kit from DIYco2reg?


Yes but I just buy the solenoid and needle valve from them. The post body kit if the whole thing including other fittings. The misc fittings figure is from mcmaster-carr. It's for a 1/4 to 1/8 reducer and a 1/8 elbow. DIYco2 will also sell you those fittings as well. I just buy from mcmasterr because I also buy the check valve which diyco2 does not sell.

Bump: This is what your cart should look like when buying everything from diyco2.










That does not include how you want to connect the tubing to the needle valve.


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## ahud (Mar 6, 2010)

Thanks a TON Gus. I can't ask for a clearer example than that.


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## SininStyle (Nov 13, 2014)

I followed the same advice just a couple weeks ago. instead of a bubble counter i got a nipple to connect the hose. I will probably buy a $8 fluval counter in the future but for now i am using a cheap $8 cascade 300 internal filter with some modifications as a diffuser.




So ill just count bubbles from inside the tank for now. it is fugly inside the tank but this is in a 75g as a practice run for a 400g so it would be inside a sump later and not seen at all.


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## splattered (Jun 7, 2017)

I get a few weeks out of a paintball set-up. I also fill them up 2 or 3 at a time so I always have one on hand. If I were closer to an industrial park than a paintball place I would probably switch but this is way more convenient for me. However I did buy a defective unit brand new online which if I could've picked it out myself I'd never have bought on account of it being so obviously poorly made. Hard to tell from online photos if you're buying something chintzy. Just my $0.02

Sent from my SM-G730V using Tapatalk


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## splattered (Jun 7, 2017)

splattered said:


> I get a few weeks out of a paintball set-up. I also fill them up 2 or 3 at a time so I always have one on hand. If I were closer to an industrial park than a paintball place I would probably switch but this is way more convenient for me. However I did buy a defective unit brand new online which if I could've picked it out myself I'd never have bought on account of it being so obviously poorly made. Hard to tell from online photos if you're buying something chintzy. Just my $0.02
> 
> Sent from my SM-G730V using Tapatalk


Tank is 120gallon with a 20 gallon sump

Sent from my SM-G730V using Tapatalk


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## ahud (Mar 6, 2010)

I'm still on the hunt for regulators, but I am eyeing one in particular on eBay that I may just pull the trigger on. I have been swooned by victors and I really want one haha, that seems so silly. My offers keep getting declined on the AirGas unit.

I'm going to call welding places on Monday to see what my swap situation is like. New Aluminum 20lb cylinders are running 110-130 shipped. I can buy a used out of date alum/steel 20lb cylinder off flea bay for around half the cost. I know a lot of you guys have success this way.


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## ahud (Mar 6, 2010)

I ordered a Harris 9296 regulator and Ideal Valve 52-2-13 Needle valve. Both items were $50 each with free shipping. 

Still scouting out cylinders. I found deals on 10# cylinders, but not 20#! One thing that may be killing me is there is a local guy that is buying cheap cylinders and reselling them filled. He has WTB ads in the surrounding areas for all used co2 tanks/cylinders lol. Just my luck!

Once the regulator comes in, I may just have to pick up a 10# cylinder. I don't know anybody local with a co2 tank and I will need to test my regulator before the return policy expires.


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## ahud (Mar 6, 2010)

Final update just in case this helps anybody in the future:

Harris 9296 regulator used off ebay- $50
Ideal Valve 52-13-2 new ebay- $50
20# cylinder from local airgas - $96.60
Soleniod from DIYco2regulator.com- 39.95

CGA320 fitting DIYco2regulator.com- 11.99
Misc fittings/tubing- 35.40
Check valves- 6.64 (will probably buy nicer ones soon)
Fluval Bubble counter 3.39
Drop checker 17.97

Total cost: 311.84

The Griggs reactor will run me around $25-30. Co2 fill will cost $22. 

So all said and done I'll be at $363 by the time co2 is pumping into the tank.


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## Jack Shaftoe (Apr 29, 2006)

So, first off, you're definitely over-thinking this. 'It's not rocket science' was one of my Monterey Bay Aquarium Curator's motto's.
Second, are you using a sump/reservoir to run all of your tertiary systems? I need to know the answer to that question to progress further.


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## Jack Shaftoe (Apr 29, 2006)

Plus, the relative presence of the enzyme rubisco is directly related to the intensity of lighting used. None of what you're considering has shown that relationship. What is your lighting? CO2 diffusion is irrelevant without a known value of light intensity. CO2 and light intensity are intrinsically correlated.


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## galunggong (Oct 25, 2013)

ckeckout fleabay# 222931089029


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## Jack Shaftoe (Apr 29, 2006)

The build looks fine, but it's irrelevant without tuning the output to your lighting. What is your lighting?


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## Jack Shaftoe (Apr 29, 2006)

That doesn't mean anything to me. Be more specific.


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## aubie98 (Apr 22, 2017)

gus6464 said:


> This is what the final product looks like to give you an idea. This is currently being used on a mini-m nano tank. For that one I had to buy a cga320 nut and bolt.
> 
> Regulator - $50
> Solenoid and needle valve and 12v power supply - $90
> ...


This is super helpful. Been planning on getting a GLA reg for awhile but some recent posts have me second guessing that option. Where do you get your bubble counter and what fitting are you using to connect to the needle valve. 

How precise is the Fabco needle valve?


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## Joetee (Mar 28, 2006)

ahud said:


> Here is what I am looking at:
> 
> Single stage Regulator- https://store.cyberweld.com/smco2re...MI2MGUyeOz2gIVyY-zCh0ligHLEAQYASABEgJc5fD_BwE
> 
> ...


I have a system I'm willing to make you a good deal on for c02. Please email me or text me. [email protected] 8593 five 16314


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

aubie98 said:


> This is super helpful. Been planning on getting a GLA reg for awhile but some recent posts have me second guessing that option. Where do you get your bubble counter and what fitting are you using to connect to the needle valve.
> 
> How precise is the Fabco needle valve?


I put a high quality check valve on the output of my needle valve and then the bubble counter on top.

BC
https://buceplant.com/collections/c...o2-brass-bubble-counter?variant=3428108533800

Check valve
https://www.mcmaster.com/#7768k15/=1ch3u93

The fabco is good enough for our purposes.


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## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

Jack Shaftoe said:


> ...CO2 and light intensity are intrinsically correlated.


I knew I had been missing something all of these years :surprise:


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## aubie98 (Apr 22, 2017)

gus6464 said:


> I put a high quality check valve on the output of my needle valve and then the bubble counter on top.
> 
> BC
> https://buceplant.com/collections/c...o2-brass-bubble-counter?variant=3428108533800
> ...


I knew that bubble counter looked familiar, just couldn't place it. 

Guess building your own regulator is not as difficult or daunting as I was making it out to be in my mind. If I put together a parts list, would you mind if I PM'ed you to make sure it was complete?


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## ahud (Mar 6, 2010)

Jack Shaftoe said:


> Plus, the relative presence of the enzyme rubisco is directly related to the intensity of lighting used. None of what you're considering has shown that relationship. What is your lighting? CO2 diffusion is irrelevant without a known value of light intensity. CO2 and light intensity are intrinsically correlated.


I am running (4) 23watt CFL bulbs in 8.5" dome fixtures. I am looking at LED units, but it was pointed out to me that I could buy a LUX meter and get a very rough estimate of my par that way. So I ordered a meter from flea bay. If the LUX meter puts me in the 40-70 range then I am going to leave things as they are. I would like to have around 50 par at the substrate. Just from what I read, 50 par should grow most any plant and would allow me to keep light as the limiting factor. With the CFL bulbs, I can swap out to 19 or 14 watt bulbs to lower the par.


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## B16CRXT (Feb 7, 2009)

IntotheWRX said:


> paintball co2 tank $25
> aquatek paintball regulator+solenoid $90
> diffuser, bubble counter and tubing $20
> 
> amazon.com


Don't go with paintball. The tanks are only good for a year or two, then you have to buy more. You can get a 5# tank for $75 full and refill/exchange it at a local air/gas supply store as needed and never have to worry about certifying or buying another one.


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## ahud (Mar 6, 2010)

Dry fit (ignore the mess, I just shoved everything out of the way so I had room to work lol).


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## IntotheWRX (May 13, 2016)

B16CRXT said:


> Don't go with paintball. The tanks are only good for a year or two, then you have to buy more. You can get a 5# tank for $75 full and refill/exchange it at a local air/gas supply store as needed and never have to worry about certifying or buying another one.


no way my paintball co2 tank has lasted me more than 2 years. 

each refill lasts me about a year

paintball is a good budget set up for anything around 10 gallons.


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## Dudley (Jan 22, 2013)

I love my CO2. I now have it for 2 tanks. I have had it for a couple of years. I was using a friends that had sold his fish tank. He wanted his CO2 tank back. He convinced me to look for a dual stage regulator. I bought one at my local welding/gas shop. It was cheaper than on line and a high quality one. I also bought my CO2 tank from him. I could have leased it, but decided not to. I purchased the tank. I can get it filled there or at the local paint ball shop. I then had to attach the CO2 injector glass to the new regulator. Hit up my local hardware shop for some brass fittings. I did hook up Milwaukee's continuous pH monitor and switch. I love that! No more checking pH. Shuts on and off when I want it to. Only have to QC it once in a while. I am a firm believer in you get what you pay for, but you can also get some great deals once in a while and some great used parts deals too! Amy way you do it, I'm sure you'll like it.
:grin2::smile2::laugh2:0:|:smile2::smile2::smile2:


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## ahud (Mar 6, 2010)

Dudley said:


> I love my CO2. I now have it for 2 tanks. I have had it for a couple of years. I was using a friends that had sold his fish tank. He wanted his CO2 tank back. He convinced me to look for a dual stage regulator. I bought one at my local welding/gas shop. It was cheaper than on line and a high quality one. I also bought my CO2 tank from him. I could have leased it, but decided not to. I purchased the tank. I can get it filled there or at the local paint ball shop. I then had to attach the CO2 injector glass to the new regulator. Hit up my local hardware shop for some brass fittings. I did hook up Milwaukee's continuous pH monitor and switch. I love that! No more checking pH. Shuts on and off when I want it to. Only have to QC it once in a while. I am a firm believer in you get what you pay for, but you can also get some great deals once in a while and some great used parts deals too! Amy way you do it, I'm sure you'll like it.
> :grin2::smile2::laugh2:0:|:smile2::smile2::smile2:


Thanks, I'm excited to try out CO2. I'm a bit overwhelmed, I started this thing out scouring low tech plants and came up with a solid list. Now that my options are endless, I'm having a hard time deciding what to pick!


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## TimP (Apr 18, 2018)

*Me too please on the parts list*



aubie98 said:


> I knew that bubble counter looked familiar, just couldn't place it.
> 
> Guess building your own regulator is not as difficult or daunting as I was making it out to be in my mind. If I put together a parts list, would you mind if I PM'ed you to make sure it was complete?


Could you also send me a copy of that parts list? I'm also looking to do my first DIY CO2 build and could use this.

Thanks!


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## ahud (Mar 6, 2010)

TimP said:


> Could you also send me a copy of that parts list? I'm also looking to do my first DIY CO2 build and could use this.
> 
> Thanks!


He posted a part list on pg 3. What else were you needing?


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## TimP (Apr 18, 2018)

Oh, I was just wondering which regulator he suggested, as well as the connector for the needle valve to the tubing. This is all so new to me that I'd love a full shopping cart where I can just go out and buy it all at one time, even if it's from different websites. The tank excluded, as I know where to get that.


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

I can post my mcmaster-carr parts list here in a bit. It will be based on an airgas y12-215d but for the most part all regulators will be the same unless you want it to elbow out differently or whatever else.


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## aubie98 (Apr 22, 2017)

gus6464 said:


> I can post my mcmaster-carr parts list here in a bit. It will be based on an airgas y12-215d but for the most part all regulators will be the same unless you want it to elbow out differently or whatever else.


Perfect, that would really help. I mirror Tim in that I was most interested in the connection between the needle valve and the bubble counter.


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## TimP (Apr 18, 2018)

aubie98 said:


> Perfect, that would really help. I mirror Tim in that I was most interested in the connection between the needle valve and the bubble counter.


Yeah, I appreciate it as well. My eyes are blurry at reading about all this. If someone handed me a shopping cart link that had everything, and the parts were quality (I'm not concerned about price, only quality), I'd do it. I have the tank, just need the rest.

Oh, and I think the Reg you're talking about is Single Stage? I may sub for a dual stage, but I assume the rest of the parts would still work. Any recommendations on Dual Stage regs?

Appreciate it!


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## ahud (Mar 6, 2010)

Tim,

The regulator Gus is using is a dual stage. Trust me, this stuff gets a lot simpler once you get your hands on it. I put mine together in 20 minutes today. Now I'm running the leak tests.


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## ahud (Mar 6, 2010)

So bad news. My regulator dropped from 120 PSI down to 105 PSI in 5 hours when performing step two of the leak test. I sprayed soapy water on the LP gauge and fittings, but I don't see any bubbles. I'm going to see if it drops any lower tomorrow. Not a good sign.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

ahud said:


> So bad news. My regulator dropped from 120 PSI down to 105 PSI in 5 hours when performing step two of the leak test. I sprayed soapy water on the LP gauge and fittings, but I don't see any bubbles. I'm going to see if it drops any lower tomorrow. Not a good sign.


Noooo but it's not horrible.

24hrs would be acceptable..
It can't really leak "backwards" .... 
I have a vested interest in this so I have to state that here..

I suppose you have the solenoid attached and have checked to downstream stuff for leaks..
Best test would be a 1/4npt plug rather than all the downstream hardware..
Of course if it doen't leak down then you need to remove the plug under pressure..

Below is Victors instruction for testing the 250 two stage.










http://www.esabna.com/eu/literature...manuals/56-0623 vts 250 series regulators.pdf

Gauges can leak intrnally and not be found w/ normal leak tests..
Some people (not recommended) have gone as far as submerging the whole thing in water..


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

Doubt it's the regulator and more the fittings.

Sent from my LGUS997 using Tapatalk


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## splattered (Jun 7, 2017)

Sounds like you're making it more complicated than it needs to be. Cheap regulators will leak and you'll know it. As far as a leak test I don't think it's warranted. Routine is more important to plants than anything and the longer you wait to give them a routine the longer it takes for them to acclimate. I'd just start giving them what you can afford to regularly commit to as far as light/gas/ferts and gradually over a course of months gently crank it up. If your fish die it's too much

Sent from my SM-G730V using Tapatalk


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## ahud (Mar 6, 2010)

jeffkrol said:


> Noooo but it's not horrible.
> 
> 24hrs would be acceptable..
> It can't really leak "backwards" ....
> ...


Thanks Jeff,

Ill go get a couple of plugs today. Hope its not the reg, but I still have the return policy. 

The soleniod manifold to 1/4 to 1/8 reducer connection is tricky to tighten. Maybe its just a small leak there. The plugs will tell!


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

ahud said:


> Thanks Jeff,
> 
> Ill go get a couple of plugs today. Hope its not the reg, but I still have the return policy.
> 
> The soleniod manifold to 1/4 to 1/8 reducer connection is tricky to tighten. Maybe its just a small leak there. The plugs will tell!


Only need one on the outlet.. 
Actually been thinking about this a bit..
Say you plug the outlet and it holds..
Now you will have to remove the plug under pressure (30-60psi isn't horrible) but may need a way to avoid it..
Say 1/4npt hose barb.. hose and clamp.
Now you can relieve it through plastic not metal.
Victor uses a "test gun" so they can relieve pressure.

also would be a shame to send it back if all it was (after failing above) is a bad LP gauge.
You do have a lot of $ room b4 getting ugly..

My first $50 Victor had a bad gauge (not leaky just WAY off) where 50psi was registering at like 2 
Replaced that for $5 I believe.
HP seat blew out around 6 months later..Now got a box of brass..
Next 2 used regs are rock solid though "technically" some would consider the Hewett Packard "leaky" .. May lose a # overnight..
I don't sweat small long bleeds..
Apparently Victor doesn't either . There test time is 5 min........... 

If you would have said it lost that much in 24hrs or more I'd say not to sweat it..


To me this is a n in-between decision:
Try a new pressure gauge, send it back, live w/ it..
Soo sorry they are tough ones.

BUT we shall see.

Replacement gauge.. 
173129111104

http://www.harrisproductsgroup.com/en/blog/2016/november/two-stage-regulators.aspx


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## Kubla (Jan 5, 2014)

splattered said:


> Sounds like you're making it more complicated than it needs to be. Cheap regulators will leak and you'll know it. As far as a leak test I don't think it's warranted. Routine is more important to plants than anything and the longer you wait to give them a routine the longer it takes for them to acclimate. I'd just start giving them what you can afford to regularly commit to as far as light/gas/ferts and gradually over a course of months gently crank it up. If your fish die it's too much
> 
> Sent from my SM-G730V using Tapatalk


Wow, I wasted all that money on test kits and drop checkers when I could have just killed fish and adjusted from there. Brilliant!


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## splattered (Jun 7, 2017)

Bingo. They're a dime a dozen. I gassed my puffer the other day. Never do that again. Experience is the only teacher when opportunity isn't evenly distributed. What can we replicate, as far as parameters, indefinitely? This is where everyone should start as we all have unique living situations etc. We don't all have access to the same resources - fact. Nonetheless these animals need life support. It's our responsibility to provide this as the burden is placed squarely on our shoulders by an aggressive industry built on the exploitation of native resources and peoples. The burden of maintaining these ecosystems in the wild is also now on the shoulders of the people living in these regions (many of them children) as well. When everyone does their part it works on paper. 
"We'll see what happens! "

Sent from my SM-G730V using Tapatalk


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

ahud said:


> So bad news. My regulator dropped from 120 PSI down to 105 PSI in 5 hours when performing step two of the leak test. I sprayed soapy water on the LP gauge and fittings, but I don't see any bubbles. I'm going to see if it drops any lower tomorrow. Not a good sign.




What was the pressure after 12 hours or longer?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ahud (Mar 6, 2010)

The Regulator is reading 80 PSI right now. I charged the second stage around 5pm yesterday, so around 18 hours gives a 40 PSI drop. 

Good point on dealing with the pressure in the regulator, I'll grab a hose fitting haha. Speaking of that, do I just plug in my solenoid and let the remaining gas escape through the needle valve? That won't mess my needle valve up, will it?


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

ahud said:


> Speaking of that, do I just plug in my solenoid and let the remaining gas escape through the needle valve? That won't mess my needle valve up, will it?


No it won't.. 



> Maximum Operating Pressure : 3000 psi (206.7 bar)


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## ahud (Mar 6, 2010)

3,000 PSI, holy crap. Thanks. 

I'm running to the HD soon to grab fittings. I'll update you all once I finish the second six-hour test (unless I follow victor procedure, it that what you do Jeff?). I have a honey-to-do list today before I get to play with the regulator....haha


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## ahud (Mar 6, 2010)

splattered said:


> Sounds like you're making it more complicated than it needs to be. Cheap regulators will leak and you'll know it. As far as a leak test I don't think it's warranted. Routine is more important to plants than anything and the longer you wait to give them a routine the longer it takes for them to acclimate. I'd just start giving them what you can afford to regularly commit to as far as light/gas/ferts and gradually over a course of months gently crank it up. If your fish die it's too much
> 
> Sent from my SM-G730V using Tapatalk


I think you're confused. I assembled my regulator for the first time and I am performing the leak test procedure to determine that the regulator is functional and that my fitting connections are airtight. I would perform the same test if I bought a $500 brand new dual stage reg. The leak test has nothing to do with CO2 levels in my aquarium.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

ahud said:


> 3,000 PSI, holy crap. Thanks.
> 
> I'm running to the HD soon to grab fittings. I'll update you all once I finish the second six-hour test (unless I follow victor procedure, it that what you do Jeff?). I have a honey-to-do list today before I get to play with the regulator....haha


No just use the Victor as an example..
Grab some Rector seal while you are at it.. 
I don't use Teflon tape for any of my stuff..


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## splattered (Jun 7, 2017)

ahud said:


> I think you're confused. I assembled my regulator for the first time and I am performing the leak test procedure to determine that the regulator is functional and that my fitting connections are airtight. I would perform the same test if I bought a $500 brand new dual stage reg. The leak test has nothing to do with CO2 levels in my aquarium.


You would be able to smell it if it was leaking. It's unmistakable. Holding a small flame to the area will also identify any leakage

Sent from my SM-G730V using Tapatalk


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## ahud (Mar 6, 2010)

jeffkrol said:


> No just use the Victor as an example..
> Grab some Rector seal while you are at it..
> I don't use Teflon tape for any of my stuff..


Will do. Do I need any specific kind? 

Teflon tape is hard to get perfect on the small fittings. Could be the issue.

Bump:


splattered said:


> You would be able to smell it if it was leaking. It's unmistakable. Holding a small flame to the area will also identify any leakage
> 
> Sent from my SM-G730V using Tapatalk


Pretty sure you are trolling at this point lol.


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## aubie98 (Apr 22, 2017)

splattered said:


> You would be able to smell it if it was leaking. It's unmistakable. Holding a small flame to the area will also identify any leakage
> 
> Sent from my SM-G730V using Tapatalk


or, he could just do the leak test. and if he can smell the leak he's got a bigger problem because he's not using co2.


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## splattered (Jun 7, 2017)

I should've been a lawyer. Unfortunately this is all I can do at this point. Obviously you all make me feel just as uncomfortable most of the time. Thanks for entertaining me

Sent from my SM-G730V using Tapatalk


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## ahud (Mar 6, 2010)

splattered said:


> I should've been a lawyer. Unfortunately this is all I can do at this point. Obviously you all make me feel just as uncomfortable most of the time. Thanks for entertaining me
> 
> Sent from my SM-G730V using Tapatalk


It's all good. I just meant the leak is so minuscule that I would not have a hope of tracking it. Co2 is not flammable nor can you smell it. I thought you were playing.


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

ahud said:


> It's all good. I just meant the leak is so minuscule that I would not have a hope of tracking it. Co2 is not flammable nor can you smell it. I thought you were playing.


Playing or playing the fool? Hard to tell at times as it is so easy to find both! 
But a note on leak checks? There are lots of ways to do a leak test with soap and some work while others will leave you thinking you have done a good check when you may really just be missing the leak. Sprays are good for things like tires and such but not good for CO2 meters as the spray runs off too quick to spot the slow leak. 
A better leak check for our use is mixing a really thick soap solution that is thick enough to cling on where we put it. It has to stay long enough to let small bubbles become larger so that we spot them.
Think of a leaking meter for example? If there is a small break in the tube inside, it will not help to simply check where the meter screws into the reg as the gas may be coming out indie the meter and then it can come out in lots of places we might not check. Some odd places are the place where the glass meets the body or the screws on the back! You will miss an internal leak if only the connection is checked. 
I like liquid soap as easy but any soap will do if mixed right. A tiny bit of water and enough soap to make it thick and then I like using something fuzzy like and old hobby paint brush or toothbrush to "whip" the solution until you get it thick enough to stand up like shaving cream! 
The thick mix will cling to things where spray runs off. 
Note that this is for leak checking the whole setup, not for testing for internal leaks like Ahud is doing to test the value of the reg itself. 
Leak checking is a time to go slow and be really thorough as doing it fast and careless will just give you bad info.


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## ahud (Mar 6, 2010)

Went out and bought a barbed fitting and some tubing. Connected the fitting and tubing and then used a bar clamp to hold the tubing shut. Submerged the tubing to make sure it was air tight. Set the PSI to 50 (the tubing stated max psi 55). So we will see what we get in 6 hours. 

Purchased some Rectorseal ""t plus 2). Hope thats the right kind, they had several.

Cross your fingers for me, ladies and gentleman.

On a side note, it looks like a scratched the SS soleniod manifold when I was tightening it. The scratch is near the hole that the solenoid goes into. Hope I did not mess that up. There are two spots the soleniod can screw into, can I just use the other one? I bought the one from DIYco2Regulator.com

Bump:


PlantedRich said:


> Playing or playing the fool? Hard to tell at times as it is so easy to find both!
> But a note on leak checks? There are lots of ways to do a leak test with soap and some work while others will leave you thinking you have done a good check when you may really just be missing the leak. Sprays are good for things like tires and such but not good for CO2 meters as the spray runs off too quick to spot the slow leak.
> A better leak check for our use is mixing a really thick soap solution that is thick enough to cling on where we put it. It has to stay long enough to let small bubbles become larger so that we spot them.
> Think of a leaking meter for example? If there is a small break in the tube inside, it will not help to simply check where the meter screws into the reg as the gas may be coming out indie the meter and then it can come out in lots of places we might not check. Some odd places are the place where the glass meets the body or the screws on the back! You will miss an internal leak if only the connection is checked.
> ...


Thanks Rich. I will go back over everything once we confirm the leak is downstream. I have some radiator leak detector, the green goopy stuff that makes huge bubbles. I wonder if that will work? My main concern is confirming the reg is functioning so I can ship it back if needed.


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

I think the goopy radiator stuff will do good. 
The manifold mounting may be a question, though. Using the 15490-5, right? I think on that the gas comes in the end or back as their drawing shows, then up through the hole where the solenoid fits, on up through the center of the manifold stud and back down into the two smaller holes and out the front of this drawing. That makes the solenoid have to be on the side with the two small holes where I drew the blue line. I have the red line as where the gas flows, in the back we can't see, then up in the loop (inside the solenoid) to go back down and toward us to come out. Hope that makes sense!!!? 
They make the drawing kind of weird as they turned the last drawing on the right from what the picture shows. The hole on the top in the picture is at the front on the middle drawing and on the left in the right hand drawing. NOT fair!!


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## ahud (Mar 6, 2010)

Thanks. 

I tested for two hours, but had a leak still. Took off the fitting and the LP gauge, coated them with rectorseal and put them back on. I'm testing again now.


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## Nights (Apr 21, 2018)

Consider this a lesson to apply to many other things as well in the future. Purchase the things you need over time if needed before starting your build. 

Consider what tanks inspired your build and what they utilized.


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## ahud (Mar 6, 2010)

Nights said:


> Consider this a lesson to apply to many other things as well in the future. Purchase the things you need over time if needed before starting your build.
> 
> Consider what tanks inspired your build and what they utilized.


I have to disagree. It is not a big deal. If it's a dud regulator I will send it back and buy another from flea bay. I don't want it to be the regulator because I like it, its a cool little reg.


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

I may not be right on this but I have never done the thorough leak check as you are doing it. I check very carefully that there is not gas leaking to outside so that I am pumping CO2 out into the air but if the reg lets some creep past the diaphragm or some internal part but keeps the gas inside, it has never occured to me to call it a problem. 
When I think of a moving part floating up and down inside the reg body, I might actually expect some gas to leak through from one side to the other as it is really hard to totally seal a moving part. 
This is a simple drawing of a dual stage regulator:
https://www.google.com/search?q=com...hUPiqwKHRvxBvQQ9QEIOzAI#imgrc=3MJnBN2STOArtM:

If the gas leaks past one of the moving parts, it will change a reading somewhere but if that gas can't leak out around the adjustment or somewhere or if the leak isn't enough so that I can't adjust it, I'm not sure I care. So far it has never happened enough to make me do the involved tests. Maybe if I were feeding gas to my Grandma, I would care, but for my tank, I just don't see the need for that much bother. The gas that leaks past has to stay in the reg somewhere, maybe not technically where it should but as long as I don't test and it doesn't bother, I'm okay with that.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

I'm still up in the air if this is a problem or not..
The "free air" test is sometimes oddly inconclusive.
My Hewett Packard "failed" sort of. Not as big of a loss as you see.
Almost wrote it off but when attached to the tank and fully charged and then the tank shut off
Neither side dropped for days.



ahud said:


> I have to disagree. It is not a big deal. If it's a dud regulator I will send it back and buy another from flea bay. I don't want it to be the regulator because I like it, its a cool little reg.



There is still the chance it's the LP gauge. $6 swap out..

Dropping from 125 to approx. 110 in 6 hours may be acceptable..
At least according to this:
https://youtu.be/PdadRsRvYds

I've always had suspicions we are chasing "ghosts" sometimes and feel you will drop on the second stage over time.
Unf. yours, at this time, did seem excessive..


This is from a Harris manual for oxy/Acet. set up. One stage I know but it leaves "questions"


> Note: Watch cylinder pressure gauge for several minutes. A
> pressure drop indicates a leak in the inlet side. Tighten
> connection and recheck. Also watch the delivery pressure gauge.
> A rise in pressure indicates a leak in the regulator valve. If leak
> cannot be stopped


When in real doubt call manuf..
Always had good luck talking to the few I dealt with .One even helped w/ another co's regulator.

From another Harris manual.


> Functional Test of Regulator
> An internal leak may be detected as follows:
> 1. Close the regulator by turning the adjusting key
> counterclockwise.
> ...


http://www.harrisproductsgroup.com/~/media/Files/PDF/Manuals/Regulator_manual.pdf

Creeping up on the lp is def bad.. or varying pressure while running..

Sooo try it hooked up and fully charged but turn tank valve off.
See what happens overnight.
KEEP in mind a leak will need to bleed off both the hp and LP gas.

I'm not ready to give up yet.


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## charlie 1 (Oct 22, 2006)

@ ahud, have you pressure tested the regulator before assembling any fittings or components?
If not it might be worth it to isolate and determine if the regulator is good.
I would start with isolating the high pressure stage of the regulator with a charge of approx 800 PSI and see if it holds for 6 hours.
First remove all fittings and components, plug regulator output with 1/4 " NPT plug > turn big regulator adjusting knob all the way counter clockwise >attach regulator to co2 bottle > open bottle valve to charge first stage of regulator to approx 800.PSI > wait approx 6 hrs, check to confirm if pressure holds to initial charge > no change congrats first stage is good >re open bottle valve > adjust low pressure /working pressure to maximum by turning big control knob clockwise > close bottle valve > wait another 6 hrs > check for pressure reading > congrats your regulator is not the culprit , focus down stream.
Apologies if this was done or suggested before.


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## ahud (Mar 6, 2010)

Thanks everybody for the continued help!

I think we may have it. After putting the LP gauge back on with rectorseal, I went from 50 PSI down to 40 PSI in around 12 hours. I'm happy with that. I'm going to connect everything back up and test again. I'll leave it on the tank charged as you are recommending Jeff. 

Today I hope to get my Griggs reactor finished. I just need to drill the hole for the co2 line and then glue the top portion together. I looked everywhere for barbed fittings, ended up using the barbed fittings intended for irrigation pipie. Hope those work out.

Aside:
Lux meter came in yesterday! So I am going to fine tune the lighting based on those results today/tomorrow as well. Won't be long and I'll be ready to order plants!


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

I often wind up with irrigation fittings and find them fine! 
Caution of drilling the hole to make sure it is small. Do use the idea of cutting the tubing tip at a very sharp point and it should be somewhat difficult to pull it through the hole from the inside. It needs to be tight enough to stretch the tubing as it is pulled/wiggles/ fought to get it inside. That stretching makes it smaller and then when released it forms a good tight seal. Tight enough hole to be somewhere between too loose and driving you crazy to get it in? The point being that you can make the hole larger but really hard to make a big hole smaller. I can't put a real number on the bit size because we may use different tubing.


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## ahud (Mar 6, 2010)

PlantedRich said:


> I often wind up with irrigation fittings and find them fine!
> Caution of drilling the hole to make sure it is small. Do use the idea of cutting the tubing tip at a very sharp point and it should be somewhat difficult to pull it through the hole from the inside. It needs to be tight enough to stretch the tubing as it is pulled/wiggles/ fought to get it inside. That stretching makes it smaller and then when released it forms a good tight seal. Tight enough hole to be somewhere between too loose and driving you crazy to get it in? The point being that you can make the hole larger but really hard to make a big hole smaller. I can't put a real number on the bit size because we may use different tubing.


Thanks. I'm a little concerned about the line leaking, but I guess loads of people use that design without issue. Do you use any type of sealant around the hole for added measure?


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

ahud said:


> Thanks. I'm a little concerned about the line leaking, but I guess loads of people use that design without issue. Do you use any type of sealant around the hole for added measure?


No sealant needed as it works by compression. Since the only pressure is from the water coming down from the tank, it doesn't need much if the tubing is tight to pull in. This is one of the places where folks do get worried but I go back to why the old boy who did it first used this method. It would be easier and quicker to just get a barbed fitting. So why did Grigg's want to do it the hard way? Because letting the CO2 out of a fitting leaves it at the side of the reactor where water flow is less than letting it out in the center of the flow inside the reactor. I get the feeling when an old boy like Grigg's does something the hard way, they have a good reason, so I follow that and it has always worked. My first thought was the same as you and I worried but after doing several, I don't try to improve it. :grin2:


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## ahud (Mar 6, 2010)

Left the reg on the co2 cylinder with the co2 shut off. 5 PSI loss over 9 hours on the LP side, no loss on the HP.


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## aubie98 (Apr 22, 2017)

ahud said:


> Left the reg on the co2 cylinder with the co2 shut off. 5 PSI loss over 9 hours on the LP side, no loss on the HP.


What's an acceptable loss in PSI on the LP side? What working pressure were you using, 50 PSI? 10% loss seems high (says the totally new to co2 guy)


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## ahud (Mar 6, 2010)

I was running it at 115 PSI and it dropped to 110. I think it is an acceptable range. The leak test instructions state within 1/8+- the original reading. I assume I am correct in that you can vary up or down 12.5%? If so, I am well within the range at 4%. My testing time frame was significantly longer as well.

Here is the thread: 
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/9-equipment/137245-complete-leak-check-co2-pressurized-system.html


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## aubie98 (Apr 22, 2017)

ahud said:


> I was running it at 115 PSI and it dropped to 110. I think it is an acceptable range. The leak test instructions state within 1/8+- the original reading. I assume I am correct in that you can vary up or down 12.5%? If so, I am well within the range at 4%. My testing time frame was significantly longer as well.
> 
> Here is the thread:
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/9-equipment/137245-complete-leak-check-co2-pressurized-system.html



wow, 12.5% tolerance seems high, but again, I nothing practically nothing about using co2. Did the pressure loss eventually stop, giving you a stable 110 PSI reading?

Good info to know when I set my reg up, which has jumped to #1 thing to do for my new tank.


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## ahud (Mar 6, 2010)

I don't really know how much actual CO2 would be lost over 9-10 hours with a 5 PSI loss. I'm guessing the 12.5% is not far off. Jeff and Rich are both in the know and I think both mentioned it was not a huge deal when I was losing 15 PSI. 

I did not mind spending some extra time to see if I could resolve the leak completely. But I'm not going to keep chasing, 5 psi seems negligible. I bet a lot of people are running larger leaks. Especially people that are buying brand new regs and not leak testing. That leak test thread even states you should leak test after changing the CO2 tank.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Just got off the phone w/ Harris and they said the "off tank" method of testing the lp side is not really valid.
Depending on the Model and gas (referring to lighter gasses vs heavier, CO2 is not light).

Best test is w/ the reg on tank, fully charged then shut off tank.
Watch pressures on both gauges..
If it drops then it's possibly a leak. Never defined a time period but his tone suggested it shouldn't bleed down much or fast..
My "feelings" is if the loss overnight is min to zero.. it's good.

LP side should "scavenge" pressure from the hp side so watch the hp side first.. 
HP graduations are pretty course but should be easy enough to see a drop overnight.
Of course assuming HP test was good.

Very few leak points in the lp side reg.
diaphragm leak, gauge, downstream..


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## aubie98 (Apr 22, 2017)

jeffkrol said:


> Just got off the phone w/ Harris and they said the "off tank" method of testing the lp side is not really valid.
> Depending on the Model and gas (referring to lighter gasses vs heavier, CO2 is not light).
> 
> Best test is w/ the reg on tank, fully charged then shut off tank.
> ...


if you shut off the tank, wouldn't the pressure reading on the hp gauge drop to zero? or is there residual pressure between the tank and the hp side that would remain constant?


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

aubie98 said:


> if you shut off the tank, wouldn't the pressure reading on the hp gauge drop to zero? or is there residual pressure between the tank and the hp side that would remain constant?


Yes residual pressure.
w/ a tank valve shut off you have the gas available from both the hp and lp chamber..

w/ this "state" I really think pressure loss over an 8 hour or 16hr period should be minimal..
HP gauge will drop easily (all gas) if losing it to the lp side.
Obviously depends on chamber size. 
After that..?????


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

aubie98 said:


> if you shut off the tank, wouldn't the pressure reading on the hp gauge drop to zero? or is there residual pressure between the tank and the hp side that would remain constant?


Leaving the reg on the tank and closing the tank vale is just plugging the flow from tank to reg and with that path closed as well as the output side, The idea is that the high pressure will stay on the high pressure sid and the low , stay on the low side. So what one is testing is how well the small parts inside the reg are sealing one side from the other. 
That is where I begin to doubt the value of the test. It doesn't show you are losing gas to the air outside but simply asking the sealing surfaces, which have to move, to seal completely. In theory, they should and that would be ideal but when I think of what we are asking, I wonder about the real value. 
What we are asking is for a spring to hold a seal against another surface hard enough to not let any gas sneak through. Technically, that is possible but the navy expects a certain amount of leaking around seals on ships! That's a pretty high standard and I don't feel it is worth a whole lot if it is a minimal amount that doesn't affect our operation in any way. 
To me, the question becomes one of how close is close enough. If I set my reg to output 15PSI when I'm suing it with solenoid turned on and it stays at 15 PSI but creeps to 17PSI when I leave the solenoid closed for 8 hours, what does it change? The next cycle when the solenoid opens, there will be a burst/bit/moment of 17PSI gas go to the needle valve and on into the tank. But if the reg is holding the working pressure at 15, how much extra CO2 goes to the tank? 
I don't feel like I will ever have my CO2 set so precisely and with so much confidence that a few minutes of 2PSI extra will ever show up. I feel like the amount of gas in the tank will vary far more if I move a powerhead than the extra gas from the reg not being perfect! 
Raising plants has so many guesses and estimates that asking the reg to be totally correct is just not one I sweat too much. 
When I get the light at just the right height, at just the right amount,time, and color, get the ferts exactly right and the CO2 exactly right, the damn plants will probably grow and change the whole thing anyway!! 
>


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## ahud (Mar 6, 2010)

I'm going to swap my LP gauge out just because Jeff found me one for dirt cheap. But after that I'm taking the PlantedRich approach and not worrying about the little leak lol.


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

ahud said:


> I'm going to swap my LP gauge out just because Jeff found me one for dirt cheap. But after that I'm taking the PlantedRich approach and not worrying about the little leak lol.


Mcmaster? They sell them for 10 bucks.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

gus6464 said:


> Mcmaster? They sell them for 10 bucks.


New, inc. shipping, no tax.. $7................
I'm a cheap sob.............contrary to some opinions.

can get a set for $15


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

PlantedRich said:


> That is where I begin to doubt the value of the test.
> >


Yea me too. Thing is that the reg is made /designed to function at a working stage of hp on one side lp on the other..
Reversing this (free air on the hp side) may not show how it actually performs.. And really my take on my discussion.

None of the test protocols of any manf. I found has any "like" test.. at all.

Like the Victor example.. tests last minutes not hours...
Ideally holding after hours/days is great.. as to necessity is the question. 

Could be the reg just needs some "exercise" after storage as well..

Diaphram/seat failure is usually more catastrophic.. not a psi per hour..
Leaks are another story..


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

I've not looked at the test on the forum in a long, long time. Was it first posted by Bettatail? Perhaps it is time for it to be removed as being too critical for our use? I don't know the fellow and don't see posts lately but I do remember he seemed to be a bit extreme on some views of the danger of CO2. Sometimes we have to seek a middle point in what is worth worry and what is not. There are many warnings on lots of products and we do need to think about safety but then some will make it totally impossible to use the product. Caulking is one which makes me wonder when I read the directions. 
I suspect the warnings on water would drive us all out of the hobby!!


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Where it started is ??? but it's relatively common on the net..

Thing that is most confusing.. and as I said.. Not really much of an official "warning" when manuf offer no real test support.

I do know that in practice, many will never see a small bleed down of CO2 and losses in $ terms would be extremely minimal.
also know that some in use and shut off will show zero loss for a long period of time. Even cheap ones..

Bettatail was extremely picky but that is a good thing.. 

From beer guys..



> What I found is that the regulator pressure (when disconnected from the gas bottle and not connected to the keg) drops around 1 PSI per hour, and it drops a little quicker when the pressure is high and slows down somewhat when the pressure is lower.
> 
> That's normal. Here's a diagram of what's going on inside the regulator that might help you understand what's going on. With no high pressure gas connected on the inlet side, the regulator's poppet isn't held firmly closed by the inlet pressure. That poppet is meant to seal the lower pressure of the outlet side against the higher pressure of the inlet. When the inlet side doesn't have hundreds of PSI behind it, the poppet doesn't seal well, and it'll generally slowly leak gas out of the inlet side, even if the regulator is set to 0.
> 
> ...


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## ahud (Mar 6, 2010)

Kind of odd, but the LP is staying pretty steady now. I checked again today and I have lost maybe 2-3 PSI from where I updated you all yesterday. I'm convinced it is not an issue now. Maybe the regulator just needed to warm up????

The time period is from around 10:30 am yesterday to 9:30am today.


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

ahud said:


> Kind of odd, but the LP is staying pretty steady now. I checked again today and I have lost maybe 2-3 PSI from where I updated you all yesterday. I'm convinced it is not an issue now. Maybe the regulator just needed to warm up????
> 
> 
> 
> The time period is from around 10:30 am yesterday to 9:30am today.




I have the same regulator (but a lower max outlet psi model), tested it as you did and had an initial small drop 5-6 psi. I had bought it as a back up, and moved soon afterwards so it sat in storage for about 2 years until I had a solenoid leak on my working reg and pulled it out of storage just in case I needed it. The reg remained plugged at the outlet, I never released the pressure and after that whole time was still holding about 25-30 psi.

Your prior leak is most likely coming from another fitting, I’d recommend resealing all your connections and reassemble your post body kit and run another leak check. Doesn’t matter if you keep the reg on tank or not, you will just have to wait longer to see if there’s any meaningful leak if you keep the high pressure chamber loaded.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

ahud said:


> I decided to take the leap to pressurized CO2. I have read and read and read, but regulators are still tripping me up. I would really appreciate some help.
> 
> I have read several of the debates regarding dual stage versus single. I am ready to commit to a single stage regulator and take on the additional risk. I will monitor pressure drops to minimize the risk of EOTD. The dual stage regulators are out of my price range unless I shoot for used and try to score a deal. I'm pressed for time so that is not a route I want to take.
> 
> ...


Dual stage, about $140 shipped with NEWSITE coupon. Shipping is fast, despite coming from Germany, 5 year warranty, fine needle valve.

https://www.co2art.eu/collections/c...-with-integrated-solenoid?variant=22144432644


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