# Ludwigia stems melting.



## Spencernw (Sep 11, 2017)

My ludwigia types have been melting in the middle of the stems. I am wondering if they are lacking anything or what could be the cause? I have a fully planted 55 gallon with pressurized co2 and I dose EI method, i also add root tabs. I had been able to grow ludwigia in the past very well and with medium light and DIY co2 and minimal dosing. I switched to pressurized co2 and high light and they seem to be melting at the stems. I have ludwigia ovalis, ludwigia super red sp mini and ludiwigia repens. They all exhibit the same melting in the stems. Today i lost the last stem of my ludwigia repens. ph is 7.8 before co2 starts and at peak co2 is 6.7. my lighting is 6 clip on desk lamps and a beamswork 48 inch led. overall 13k lumens on for 5 hours.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi Spencernw,

Welcome to TPT!

Does it look something like this? (not my picture)









A little more information about your water test results, especially NO3, dKH, and dGH; also it would be helpful to know where you live would allow me to look up your local water utility water testing results. And a picture of your stems would help as well.

That said, the individual that had the issue above was a TPT member and *this is the thread that covered the issue.*


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## Spencernw (Sep 11, 2017)

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Hi Spencernw,
> 
> Welcome to TPT!
> 
> ...



Thank you for the reply. i have since done some research and checked my nitrates. They were off the charts. I wonder if this could be the problem so i think i will cut down on the dosing of KNO3. my dKH is 5 and my dGH is hard for me to determine with my test kit but i believe its 1 or 2? should i buy gh booster or see if lowering nitrates will do the trick? my rotala rotundifolia is doing ok as of right now but the ludwigia is not. I live in Lehighton Pennsylvania. The stem melting looks exactly as it does in the picture you provided.


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 4, 2008)

How much nitrates do you have?


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## Spencernw (Sep 11, 2017)

Darkblade48 said:


> How much nitrates do you have?


I am not sure exactly because the test reads by color and is hard to pinpoint but when i tested it was over 80ppm . The solution was blood red.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi Spencernw,

Regrettably the LEHIGHTON WATER AUTHORITY does not seem to post their water testing results online.

I have had my NO3 at 80 ppm or higher and not experienced the melting shown in the pictures.

A picture or two would help me to determine if it is a 'hardness issue'; pictures of new growth and older growth of leaves please.


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## Spencernw (Sep 11, 2017)

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Hi Spencernw,
> 
> Regrettably the LEHIGHTON WATER AUTHORITY does not seem to post their water testing results online.
> 
> ...


 Hello, i took some pictures. I also realized today also that my Rotala rotundifolia is lacking any color and seems to not be growing much. Does 80ppm of Nitrates have any bad effects?
imgur.com/6s1NWCS
imgur.com/SSV2NWD
imgur.com/iDHoP4Y
imgur.com/YBHynhW
imgur.com/EyxbFda
imgur.com/ipuia7Y
imgur.com/N4545hC


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi Spencernw,

Thank you for the pictures they do help a little. What I noticed is the new growth looks pretty good. Some of the older growth shows signs of calcium (Ca) deficiency (hooked leaf tips) but that is not evident on newer growth. I also saw a older leaf suffering from necrosis starting at the tip and progressing toward the stem/node. What it appears to be is one of the mobile nutrients (typically potassium [K], magnesium [Mg], nitrogen [N], or phosphorus [P]) is lacking causing re-absorption of the nutrient from already formed leaves and stems and being transferred by the plant to support new growth. Based upon what I see my suspicion is magnesium (Mg).

If it were my tank this is what I would do. First I would do a 50% water change both to reduce the nitrates (NO3) in your tank and replenish whatever minerals are in your water. Second, I would reduce my potassium nitrate (KNO3)dosing by 1/2 or possibly more and monitor my KNO3 levels weekly until they come down. If you have potassium sulfate (K2SO4) you can increase it to offset the loss of K from dropping the KNO3 dosing. Then I would add some magnesium sulfate (MgSO4) (also known as Epsom Salt available at drug stores and supermarkets). I would start with 1/2 teaspoon per 10 gallons 2X per week. That should add about 5 ppm of Mg to your water column.

Since the problem is with the older leaves and stems I wouldn't expect much change in your new growth. What you should see after a couple of weeks is better retention of older leaves and a decrease in the 'stem melt'. Some existing stems are likely damaged beyond the point where they will come back but the occurrence of 'stem melt' should decrease over several weeks.

Let us know how it goes!



> Interveinal chlorosis. Interveinal chlorosis first appears on oldest leaves.
> 
> 1. Older leaves chlorotic, usually necrotic in late stages. Chlorosis along leaf margins extending between veins produces a "Christmas tree" pattern. Veins normal green. Leaf margins may curl downward or upward with puckering effect. Necrosis may suddenly occur between veins. Potassium or calcium excess can inhibit uptake of magnesium...magnesium deficiency
> 
> When the external magnesium supply is deficient, interveinal chlorosis of the older leaves is the first symptom because as the magnesium of the chlorophyll is remobilized, the mesophyll cells next to the vascular bundles retain chlorophyll for longer periods than do the parenchyma cells between them. Leaves lose green color at tips and between veins followed by chlorosis or development of brilliant colors, starting with lower leaves and proceeding upwards. The chlorosis/brilliant colors (unmasking of other leaf pigments due to the lack of chlorophyll) may start at the leaf margins or tips and progress inward interveinally producing a "Christmas" tree pattern. Leaves are abnormally thin, plants are brittle and branches have a tendency to curve upward. Stems are weak, subject to fungus infection, usually leaves drop prematurely.


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## Spencernw (Sep 11, 2017)

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Hi Spencernw,
> 
> Thank you for the pictures they do help a little. What I noticed is the new growth looks pretty good. Some of the older growth shows signs of calcium (Ca) deficiency (hooked leaf tips) but that is not evident on newer growth. I also saw a older leaf suffering from necrosis starting at the tip and progressing toward the stem/node. What it appears to be is one of the mobile nutrients (typically potassium [K], magnesium [Mg], nitrogen [N], or phosphorus [P]) is lacking causing re-absorption of the nutrient from already formed leaves and stems and being transferred by the plant to support new growth. Based upon what I see my suspicion is magnesium (Mg).
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for the help, it means a lot! I will do a water change tonight and continue to decrease my dosing of potassium nitrate and will increase my potassium sulfate. I do have epsom salt and will add that also. I do have one last question. I ordered some GH booster just in case and i was just wondering if adding that could be beneficial?


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Increasing light and CO2 will require an increase in nutrients.
Somewhat natural for them to do that to "reproduce" i.e escape.. 

Phosphate and iron deficiencies seem to be the usual suspect..

Blackened rot and separation usually implies lack of light...


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Spencernw said:


> Thank you so much for the help, it means a lot! I will do a water change tonight and continue to decrease my dosing of potassium nitrate and will increase my potassium sulfate. I do have epsom salt and will add that also. I do have one last question. I ordered some GH booster just in case and i was just wondering if adding that could be beneficial?


Hi Spencernw,

GH Booster would be my second choice since your current new growth does not show a calcium (Ca) deficiency and you indicated your water was 'hard'. I would strongly suggest you get in touch with your water utility and ask for a copy of their most recent water analysis, hopefully it will give your current Ca and Mg levels in ppm and possibly the utility has the 'averages' for those nutrients over an annual period as well. Based upon what you find out we can address GH Booster at that time.


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## Spencernw (Sep 11, 2017)

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Hi Spencernw,
> 
> GH Booster would be my second choice since your current new growth does not show a calcium (Ca) deficiency and you indicated your water was 'hard'. I would strongly suggest you get in touch with your water utility and ask for a copy of their most recent water analysis, hopefully it will give your current Ca and Mg levels in ppm and possibly the utility has the 'averages' for those nutrients over an annual period as well. Based upon what you find out we can address GH Booster at that time.


okay . Thank you for your help again!


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## Megladonx (Mar 27, 2021)

Spencernw said:


> My ludwigia types have been melting in the middle of the stems. I am wondering if they are lacking anything or what could be the cause? I have a fully planted 55 gallon with pressurized co2 and I dose EI method, i also add root tabs. I had been able to grow ludwigia in the past very well and with medium light and DIY co2 and minimal dosing. I switched to pressurized co2 and high light and they seem to be melting at the stems. I have ludwigia ovalis, ludwigia super red sp mini and ludiwigia repens. They all exhibit the same melting in the stems. Today i lost the last stem of my ludwigia repens. ph is 7.8 before co2 starts and at peak co2 is 6.7. my lighting is 6 clip on desk lamps and a beamswork 48 inch led. overall 13k lumens on for 5 hours.


Hello, I'm new here. I've been considering getting an aquarium for some time and really enjoy the thought of growing aquatic plants. I'm sorry for resurrecting such an old post but there are some terms here that I have not come across yet that I hope to get clarification on.

First what does it mean: "melting at the stems" ? I've also seen another time someone in another section talked about leaves melting, but there was no explanation there either.

My next question is about what is the "El method" ?

Thank you to anyone that replies with anything helpful!


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 4, 2008)

Megladonx said:


> Hello, I'm new here. I've been considering getting an aquarium for some time and really enjoy the thought of growing aquatic plants. I'm sorry for resurrecting such an old post but there are some terms here that I have not come across yet that I hope to get clarification on.
> 
> First what does it mean: "melting at the stems" ? I've also seen another time someone in another section talked about leaves melting, but there was no explanation there either.
> 
> ...


Leaves/stems melting - sometimes, when plants are moved from one environment to another, they die back slightly. This is characterized by their leaves/stems turning into mush, essentially as if they were melting away.

The Estimative Index (EI) method is a method of dosing fertilizers into the aquarium. Tom Barr pioneered this dosing method, and it essentially does away with frequent water testing by adding in an excess of nutrients, and then removing them with large 50% weekly water changes.


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## Megladonx (Mar 27, 2021)

Darkblade48 said:


> Leaves/stems melting - sometimes, when plants are moved from one environment to another, they die back slightly. This is characterized by their leaves/stems turning into mush, essentially as if they were melting away.
> 
> The Estimative Index (EI) method is a method of dosing fertilizers into the aquarium. Tom Barr pioneered this dosing method, and it essentially does away with frequent water testing by adding in an excess of nutrients, and then removing them with large 50% weekly water changes.


Thanks for your reply. The more I read up on all this, the more I think there is so much for me to learn before I actually buy anything so that I don't immediately kill everything.


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