# 265 gal plant tank build has begun.



## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

Initial hardscape. Something aint right.


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

Second try seems better


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

i ordered 10 bundles of each of these and based on how i finished hardscaping tonight, i have a feeling, for some of these i may end up using only half. 
anyhow ill get shipment on sunday. did i order too much?

following is what i ordered:
Ammania Gracilis
Bacopa caroliniana
cryptocoryne Balanesae
cryptocoryne Blassi 
cryptocoryne Lucens
cryptocoryne wendtii Brown
cryptocoryne wendtii Green
Echinodorus Parviflorus
Hydrocotyle leucocephala
hygrophillia difformis
Limnophillia Aquatica
Limnophillia Aromatica
Ludwigia Natans
HC
Java fern
Narrow leaf Java fern
Rotala Indica
Sagittaria subulata
Vallisneria Spiralis


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

can't wait to see your tank fill with green!

some plants from your list not gonna make it, but some of them will do well, take a little bit time you will have a lush green looking tank.

+1 for the Sagittaria Subulata, don't need co2 and once it spreads out and cover the bottom, will look very nice.


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## tomfromstlouis (Apr 2, 2012)

I like the hardscape except for the two stones front and center. Everything else looks natural and those two look like planted sentries. The second try is better because they are slightly more subtle but they still look artificial to me. What do they look like pushed to the back? How about connected to the other piles? I suspect plant growth will be hiding lots of the rocks anyway.

The plastic grid stuff is known as egg crate. Not sure where you get it, but I thought folks put it beneath the substrate to keep the substrate from creeping around. Holds it in place.

Do those white spots on the back near center need paint or are the plants going to completely cover them or what? 

I think you are going to have way too many plants, especially the stems, but I gotta say, despite my quibbles above, THIS TANK IS GOING TO BE AWESOME!


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## Paxx (Dec 17, 2012)

Those white spots look to me to be left over coralline algae that remained after a vinegar bath cleaning. Wasn't this tank a saltwater aquarium at some point? Not to worry, for the most part if they are coralline algae stains, the acidic water of a Discus or Angel planted tank will most likely dissolve the stains over time. After 6 months they probably will not be easily visible. http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/tags.php?tag=coralline+algae


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

Bettatail said:


> can't wait to see your tank fill with green!
> 
> some plants from your list not gonna make it, but some of them will do well, take a little bit time you will have a lush green looking tank.
> 
> +1 for the Sagittaria Subulata, don't need co2 and once it spreads out and cover the bottom, will look very nice.


Which ones are gonna be hard to keep and why? 
I was thinking hc to cover most forefront and subulata to cover corner front and just behind hc.


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

Those white spots are coraline algae. I just could reach the back but plants will cover all the back anyway


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

tomfromstlouis said:


> I like the hardscape except for the two stones front and center. Everything else looks natural and those two look like planted sentries. The second try is better because they are slightly more subtle but they still look artificial to me. What do they look like pushed to the back? How about connected to the other piles? I suspect plant growth will be hiding lots of the rocks anyway.
> 
> The plastic grid stuff is known as egg crate. Not sure where you get it, but I thought folks put it beneath the substrate to keep the substrate from creeping around. Holds it in place.
> 
> ...


yea the center area is still unfinished. i may change it future. but im out of rocks and woods for now. need to get more.
as far as the plastic ones. im talking about flexible acrylic sheets.
ive seen some guys place those 4x4" sheets in between the sand and other substrate to make sure they stay divided and i think mainly to make sure carpets dont cover over the sand.
i read somewhere that homedepot carries. just wanna know the exact name.


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

Plants came with weights. Do I need to keep it on or remove it?


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## Paxx (Dec 17, 2012)

Remove.


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

thanks paxx.

any other steps i need to?
once i plant it all then fill in water then run pump etc. then what?

do i need to add fertilizers or add metricide 14?
when can i start fishless cycle?


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## Paxx (Dec 17, 2012)

Placing an upside down bowl on a plate and directing your fill water onto it will help keep substrate disturbances to a minimum during the fill.

Fishless cycle - begins the moment you add water.

Ferts - I'm not sure of the method you have chosen but most recommend beginning your fert/water change routine almost immediately. How you are cycling your tank is also a factor. If your tank is all "new" I would be hesitant to add ferts until the nitrification cycle is well on its way. It has been years since I have started a completely new tank without having some mature filter media to jump start the process, so I am a bit rusty on your exact question.

Plan on replanting things the next few weeks as die off occurs and healthy roots begin to develop.

Re: problem plants
One of the problem plants for your setup is HC. It has been my experience and observation that HC does well in soft water with high lighting and profuse amounts of pressurized CO2. My own latest attempt at HC ended (I have high light and plenty of CO2) with them dwindling away and the dwarf sag taking over. I probably didn't plant it right.


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## Kathyy (Feb 22, 2010)

Float stems with the metal removed in clean water, trim up dying stem bottoms and leaves if any. I rejoice when I see snail egg clusters, some remove them. Plant stems just a bit apart in groups. 

To fill the tank cover substrate and plants completely with big pieces of bubble wrap or fill tank with crumpled paper and plastic and fill slowly. Works like a charm. Did you sift or rinse the STS before placing in the tank? It is pretty dusty stuff. I sifted briefly, rinsed briefly and carefully filled and was very happy with the result.

Here is one video on how to divide substrates. http://youtu.be/OZ0WBDcEWZE I would not succeed even if I used various sized rocks completely separating the two like this Amano tank setup http://youtu.be/quisiqOd3Kk. Green Machine has some basic set up videos too, how to prepare plants for planting for instance.


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

These plants same sealed inside plastic bag with sponge around roots and weights on. Its moisterized inside. 
My question is if i dont finish all this planting today. Could i just do it in the next few days(mostly all by tomorrow)?
Thing is if i dont finish tonight then i wont fill in tank all the way up and wont connect to the pump. Then what happens to the ones submerged in water without aeration til tomorrow when i finish planting? 
Plantint is taking forever!


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## Big O (Jun 28, 2011)

*me likey!*

i'm not a big fan of canopy tanks, but this one is sweet looking.:thumbsup:


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## thelub (Jan 4, 2013)

Float them in water. Tank water, tap water, it doesn't really matter. They'll be OK for a day or 2. If you have another aquarium toss them in there, otherwise just float them in the planter they came in in a bucket or something . I'd take off all weights and ties though.


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

Great my driftwoods are floating. Anyone knows tricks to keep them sinkin?


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## Paxx (Dec 17, 2012)

dkreef said:


> Great my driftwoods are floating. Anyone knows tricks to keep them sinkin?


Strategically placed rocks (or other weights) may help with the floaters ...

or

Obtain some flat slate (tile can work), use a masonry bit to drill a small hole, use a stainless steel screw to attach slate to bottom of driftwood. Bury slate in substrate.


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

Does crazy glue on rock work?


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

dkreef said:


> Does crazy glue on rock work?


I've used Silicone for Rock to Rock.

Driftwood to Driftwood, zip ties/Stainless Steel Screws.

For Plant(Moss, Anubias, Java Fern) to Rock/Driftwood I use Super Glue Gel.


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## Zorfox (Jun 24, 2012)

dkreef said:


> Does crazy glue on rock work?


Yup. The gel type works better. If you ever need to glue irregular pieces together (porous rock) add baking soda to create a filler. It's been used for years by reef keepers. If it's safe enough for those invertebrates in saltwater it's certainly safe enough for freshwater.

I really like the way this tank is looking. It's nice to see heavy planting from day one...the right way to go. The path in the middle complimented by the large driftwood on either side keeps a tank this large from being monotonous. Nice work!


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## Jester946 (Mar 30, 2013)

Hey DKreef, heading to san diego anytime soon?


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Don't keep the bunches of plants all in a bunch. Separate them and plant them individually, about an inch apart, so the light and circulating water can reach all of them.

My personal preference is to avoid symmetry, so I find your layout much too symmetrical. It does look like it will look good though.

You won't be able to keep the two substrate materials separated. Over time they will mix and blur the dividing line between them, unless you spend a lot of effort trying to maintain the border between them. Under water, the individual particles weigh very little, so water currents and fish easily mix them together.


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

Hoppy said:


> Don't keep the bunches of plants all in a bunch. Separate them and plant them individually, about an inch apart, so the light and circulating water can reach all of them.
> 
> My personal preference is to avoid symmetry, so I find your layout much too symmetrical. It does look like it will look good though.
> 
> You won't be able to keep the two substrate materials separated. Over time they will mix and blur the dividing line between them, unless you spend a lot of effort trying to maintain the border between them. Under water, the individual particles weigh very little, so water currents and fish easily mix them together.


u are right. i tried to avoid symmetry but then i was thinking of lighting requirement and placement and it happened to be this way...

they are not planted all bundled up. i planted each stem (maybe 2 at most together) 1" apart from each other. 

i am looking into getting flexible thin acrylic sheet and placed between the two substrates. wont this keep it separate?


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

btw, see the ones in front, all bundled in weights?
those arent planted. those are leftovers im selling...


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

that whole area where left overs are in right now is where im gonna put in a foreground carpet. im thinkin glosso...
i may get HC since now im thinking about getting co2...maybe another 2x54W T5s..


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

Heres an update! 
Finally got hc and planted in foreground. Changed to new bulbs four 54w 6700k. 
Then filled it all up and turned on pump. Not a single one uprooted yoohoo!
But im having problem with poret filter in my sump. I guess its too big.


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

I was finished filling this tank around 5am.


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

The water was pretty clear when i filled it up but few hours later when i woke up it was very cloudy. Could it be the manzanita branchs causing this? Its sand blasted ones i got from bloom and branchs and its forming fungus around it. 
When will the fungus go away and water clear?


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## thelub (Jan 4, 2013)

It's typical. Like I said in your other post it's your cycle starting and is normal.


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

Day 4 since filling with water. Close view not very good for plants. Some melting. Some lost colors. Algae. 
Far away looks peaceful. 
Tomorrow co2 will be turned on. (Co2 indicator is very blue. Meaning low co2) Hopefully these plants come back to life. 
Ferts wont be added til system is stabilized.


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## DubJunkie (Apr 22, 2013)

You have inspired me to attempt a more out of the box approach to my tank. I think it looks absolutely wonderful. The sand in the middle is the perfect touch and your selection of driftwood was a great one.


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

I tried combining multiple plant scapes to my taste. Overall im happy...


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## GMYukonon24s (May 3, 2009)

That's a beautiful scape. I can't wait to see it fill in!


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

day 5 pic:


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## wesleh (Apr 22, 2013)

looking good!


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

What a 2weeks its been. I finally can see the light at the tunnel. Plants are showing bright green colors. And growing. Some a lot and others slow. But reds are growing more green ones at top. Is it light deficiency?

Do have minor algae issue and pest snails but i can deal with those later. Assasins and adding amano and nerites. 
Just started to dose ferts. Co2 is finally at optimal level. Around 25ppm. I know 30 is but its close. Doing fishless cycle and nitrite has started to climb. 

All hardwares are installed and working properly except i still need to add more lights. 
I got another 4x54w t5 ho lights. 
Question is should i add all 4 or just 2 more?
I dont want more algae problems due to too much light. 
Again this is 265gal 7' long tank.


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

Looking really good, the effort is finally bearing fruit. I personally would wait on adding more light for now. Watch your colored stems for a week for the new growth. They are your indicator for the light level.

The path in the center is really cool, except the 100% straight lines. Does not look natural to me. Otherewise, well done.

via Droid DNA Tapatalk 2


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

Well plants are growing. Some more than others. 
Some hairy algae has covered a lot of the HCs. Any reason and remedy for it?
Lots of snails everywhere. Doesnt bother me now but may get some assassins later. 
Ph is 6.8 
In middle of cycle. 
Heres a pic:


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

OVT said:


> Looking really good, the effort is finally bearing fruit. I personally would wait on adding more light for now. Watch your colored stems for a week for the new growth. They are your indicator for the light level.
> 
> The path in the center is really cool, except the 100% straight lines. Does not look natural to me. Otherewise, well done.
> 
> via Droid DNA Tapatalk 2


So how do i determine whether i need to add more lights or not based on colored plants?
My red ones are growing green leafs at top 


Also found pearling going on.


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

I do not claim a scientific approach and, I am sure, others will pitch in (or out) with better ideas. There are enough people who grow beautiful color plants with a fraction of my PAR.

I grow a number of plants that I use as rough indicators.

Ludwigia sp. red has a reputation of growing red under even low-medium light.

Limnophilia aromatica is another plant whose coloration I find to be pretty linear to the amount of light it gets.

Rotala macrandra will either die or grow mostly green undrer medium light. It's leaf shape is another light indicator.

Ludwigia repens is an ideal plant as you can see the colors transition from bottom to top, especially in a deeper tank.

I am finding that the color of Rotala indica is apparently more spectrum then light intensity dependant.

Some plants exhibit a reverse behavior. For example, Ambulia is darker green and bustier undrer moderate light. In high light it is lighter green with longer internodes. E. tenellus is another example.

Before somebody screams, I am the first to admit that keeping water and other environmental properties even nearly identical across multiple tanks is not practical for me personally. And to discount the effects of different environments beside the PAR might be too simplistic. In other words, YMMV. 

via Droid DNA Tapatalk 2


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

Today i got all dither fish except 70 cardinals(to be picked up) into my QT tank. 
Fish look healthy. Eating well.


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

Discus to join in 2 weeks


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## Green_Flash (Apr 15, 2012)

how many and size, type?


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

12 neon dwarf rainbows (m)
15 albino cory (m)
12 skunk cory (Lg)
40 rummynose (m)

tomorrow 70 cardinals (med-lg)


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## dprais1 (Sep 12, 2012)

I had some rainbows with angelfish a while a go...the rainbows are fast and eat a lot. I think you will have a hard time ensuring your discus get enough food and your rainbows don't get too much.

---but an exciting thread and build.

--maybe I missed it but who are you getting your discus from and what strains?


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

i know about most rainbows not being a good tankmate for discus but this precox rainbow is the smallest and most peaceful one.
altho they are fast, their mouth is so small that it wont be stealing much from the discus.
i actually got them to clean up leftover food debris in the mid column before they fall to substrate.


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

dprais1 said:


> I had some rainbows with angelfish a while a go...the rainbows are fast and eat a lot. I think you will have a hard time ensuring your discus get enough food and your rainbows don't get too much.
> 
> ---but an exciting thread and build.
> 
> --maybe I missed it but who are you getting your discus from and what strains?


getting my discus from Kenny's Discus. the best importer of Forrest discus from Malaysia.
his customer service has been top notch.
i would buy from him over and over again.

i got these:
4.5" checkerboard Turk - 1
3.5" blue diamond - 2
4" Leopard w/ ring gene - 1
4"+ Tropical Red - 1
5-5.5" Giant Cobalt gene - 1
4.5-5" Snakeskin Turquoise - 1
4.5" Golden Carnation snakeskin - 1


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

Dual tank pic


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## dprais1 (Sep 12, 2012)

If you plan to do flake try inland empire's beefheart flake. really good quality stuff


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## rk923 (Nov 1, 2009)

Amazing looking setup! Great job on the tank my friend! It looks like the discus tank i dream of having someday! 

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

dprais1 said:


> If you plan to do flake try inland empire's beefheart flake. really good quality stuff


yea i know about the inland empire beefheart flakes but was little too expensive for me. i did get California blackworm's blackworm/beefheart(23%) flakes for much less and heard good reviews. 
got 2lb for $60.


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## umdterps96 (Oct 21, 2010)

very nice set up


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## Vepr (Jan 30, 2009)

Incredible setup so far. Looking forward to seeing this one develop. Would love to try a setup like this some day.


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

plants grew up 20-30% in 3 weeks. is this fast growth or slow or med?
i do like this growth rate since i dont want to prune plants every week.
was considering adding more lights but maybe not. HC does need more light tho. its growing so slow and not so horizontally spreading. 
i will do water change weekly due to discus coming in.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

In post #46 is that Java Fern? If so you don't want the rhizome covered for a extended period of time. Ignore that comment if they are not covered, so hard to tell from the pic.

Hate the thumbnails, as you can't run a quote with them.


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

Yea java. Still has weights on. I can remove it. But then it will float. I have no space in main tank for it now.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

At least be sure the weights are loose and no rock wool (if that's what I see) is on the rhizome.

This is a pic of Mopane wood I started Java Fern on about 16mos ago.



I use SuperGlue Gel to hold the rhizome in place until the roots attach them selves to the wood.


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

Its sponge on rizhome. Is it bad?


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

dkreef said:


> Its sponge on rizhome. Is it bad?


Not for a temp fix. However, I would check it weekly to be sure the rhizome doesn't start to rot.


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

took some shot before my water change today...



full shots:




fish shots:


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

a month ago shot when i had 8 discus instead of 13 now...
this is my fav photo yet.


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## chrisuf2000 (Jun 15, 2013)

Wow! Amazing fish and tank! I never really got the thing with discus before but those are awesome! Really nice tank! What's the smallest tank you should keep one in? Seems it would need to be a decent size since they are pretty big


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

U dont need a big one but maybe 50 gal min. 
1 discus per 10 gal is kinda rule. U want 5 or more discus


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## ua hua (Oct 30, 2009)

Nice tank and very beautiful healthy looking discus.


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

thank you all...not the best setup for discus but so far so good...


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## Mizuhuman (Mar 16, 2013)

that is absolutely stunning!! 
I think you did a great job on this discus tank, so don't belittle your work :biggrin:


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## londonloco (Aug 25, 2005)

Beautiful, and I like the symmetry.....


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## tomfromstlouis (Apr 2, 2012)

Yeah, face it dkreef, you put a lot of effort into this and you ended up hitting it out of the park. It looks like top notch fun sitting in front of that baby. Congratulations are in order.


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## nofearengineer (Mar 20, 2013)

This tank is spectacular.

Frankly, if I had something like this, you wouldn't hear from me for a long, long time. Until I got out of the hospital from forgetting to eat, sleep, bathe, etc. I would just be staring at the tank all day and night until I passed out.


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

everything has settled in. plants are growing in steady rate and water parameters are in good condition.
thank you for your encouragements!


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

got some hair algae issue going on. lights are on 8 hrs/day
planning on 40-50 Amano shrimps for it.
also maybe some nerites to help with algae clean up...


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## thelub (Jan 4, 2013)

I've had good results using hydrogen peroxide spot treatments to ward off that stuff. When I got it I noticed it was in high light, high flow areas. I decreased the flow in that area and did spot treatments with H2O2 and it went away in a few short days.


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## tomfromstlouis (Apr 2, 2012)

I don't know what temperature you keep your discus in, but Amanos seem to dislike anything 80 degrees or more. Mine got that deep greenish color that definitely suggested stress.


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

My temp is around 83.5 
Didnt know amanos could be sensitive to temps.


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

My temp is around 83.5 
Didnt know amanos could be sensitive to temps.


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## 4Dallday (Jun 26, 2013)

You have something amazing here. Keep us posted on further developments.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

Sure will. 
So one of issue that came up is with tank being so large and discus needing frequent wc, its taking a lot of time to do weekly 80% wcs. 
Main reason is the python siphon using bathroom sink faucet has low water pressure so takes a while to remove water and also to add water. 
Has anyone figure out more efficient way to do wcs?


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## tomfromstlouis (Apr 2, 2012)

I use a submersible pump to take out my 50+ gallons twice per week. They are inexpensive and bigger is faster. Attach the python hose to the pump and it goes way faster than the original python method.

Do you think that two 50% changes per week would provide a more stable environment? I do two 25% changes for my altums and they seem to perk up a bit after each one, so even after 3 days they can sense a difference. Just sayin'.


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## mott (Nov 23, 2006)

dkreef said:


> Sure will.
> So one of issue that came up is with tank being so large and discus needing frequent wc, its taking a lot of time to do weekly 80% wcs.
> Main reason is the python siphon using bathroom sink faucet has low water pressure so takes a while to remove water and also to add water.
> Has anyone figure out more efficient way to do wcs?


Got a garden? Just run the hose outside, gravity should be faster than your low pressure faucet with a python.


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

I did that before. But then i need another water changer cuz the water return needs to be on sink faucet so i can match water temp of tap to tank water temp.


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## nikonD70s (Apr 6, 2008)

dkreef said:


> Sure will.
> So one of issue that came up is with tank being so large and discus needing frequent wc, its taking a lot of time to do weekly 80% wcs.
> Main reason is the python siphon using bathroom sink faucet has low water pressure so takes a while to remove water and also to add water.
> Has anyone figure out more efficient way to do wcs?


instead of doing 80% waterchange a week. its better to do 2-3 small ones in a week. ur discus will appreciate it more. and like other said if ur tank is near a garden house outside. just use that to suck the water out and add water in. literally takes 5 min of ur time. and the rest is just hanging around till the water sucks/and fills back in. or with ur current python if ur faucet has low pressure. try sucking on it ur own. that might create a stronger suction and will suck water out quicker. but doing several small waterchange a week is a lot better then a huge one once a week.

doing several small waterchanges. u wont need to match the water of the tank.


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

Yea i agree that smaller frequent wc is better but lot of days, i come home so late from work and i dont wanna lift a finger. 
But i am planning on doing twice a week wc 50-80%. 

The water return isnt so bad, siphon is problem. So i may get a long tube and siphon using rubber siphon pumper.


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## miwoodar (Jul 5, 2007)

The only thing slower than watching water boil is waiting for your tank to drain.

I've been running mine to the garden via a pair of garden hoses. Even with two going it is painfully slow though. At least I'm not slogging buckets anymore.

You and I seem to have gone through a similar 'to keep reefing or switch to a planted tank' dilemma. I'm glad that I finally sold my corals/fish. I had been in that niche for far too long. My wife was skeptical that a planted tank could be as cool as a reef tank. And with that, the challenge had been set.


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

miwoodar said:


> The only thing slower than watching water boil is waiting for your tank to drain.
> 
> I've been running mine to the garden via a pair of garden hoses. Even with two going it is painfully slow though. At least I'm not slogging buckets anymore.
> 
> You and I seem to have gone through a similar 'to keep reefing or switch to a planted tank' dilemma. I'm glad that I finally sold my corals/fish. I had been in that niche for far too long. My wife was skeptical that a planted tank could be as cool as a reef tank. And with that, the challenge had been set.


Yes reef to planted tank. But i think it was worth it.


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## nikonD70s (Apr 6, 2008)

david, have u thought about taking out your substrate and use sand instead? would be a lot cleaner to use sand then your gravels. it wont affect your plant as much switching to sand since u have co2 going. and that way u can easily suck all the gunk out when u do a waterchange. cuz the gunk will just settle down on the bottom of your gravel now. good for plants but may be bad for your discus cuz of water quality. and overall it will brighten up your tank and making your discus more vibrant.


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

Yea i dont mind sand at all and maybe have gone that route if i knew back then discus was gonna be main fish. Cuz i was undecided which fish to go with, plants were priority then.
But now i cant imagine trying to remove everything out to switch substrates. Thats all plants and fish. 
I do have shrimps and cories to clean the bottom. Hopefully it will be ok with discus.


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## NWA-Planted (Aug 27, 2011)

Simply gorgeous!!

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

heres what i trimmed since last trim 2 weeks ago..


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

after the trim and water change...can u tell? kinda hard to see.


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

some close ups:


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

some new additions in QT tank.







Then today came home finding white angel x blue turquoise pair spawning...


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

For anyone who uses python or aqueon water changer and has to keep water flow on to get good suction flow, i recommend this from Jehmco.



now i can drain half my tank in 15min and without wasting any water...


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## Saxtonhill (Dec 28, 2012)

Beautiful planting and the discus are stunning!


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## miwoodar (Jul 5, 2007)

Dig it. That is a very nice school of discuss and a fine tank too.


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

thanks guys. these discus are from kenny/forrest discus.

got some ludwigia hybrid sp red. will plant this weekend during wc.


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## gotwins86 (Jul 30, 2007)

Amazing tank! Love the discus. This would be a dream tank for me. Someday...


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## Green_Flash (Apr 15, 2012)

sweet discus!


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## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

I cant imagine how much a high tech planted tank would be. The amount of powerheads you would need for good flow, the amount of co2 you would need to pump out and most of all, the amount of ferts you would need to dose. Thats alot of work.

You need more reds though


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## zachawry (May 28, 2013)

First, amazing tank. 

Second, you mentioned 40 Amanos. I got 40 Amanos for my 65 gallon. I love them, both just to watch and for their algae-cleaning. I live in Japan, and here they are called "Yamato" shrimp, Yamato being a traditional name for Japan. 

(My Japanese wife and I agree that they are well-named, since they are such hard workers! They really do never rest.)

Anyway, I think a LOT more than 40 would be good for you. 


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## zachawry (May 28, 2013)

Although, I just realized the Amanos might be Discus snacks. You would want to check on that first....


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## xxUnRaTeDxxRkOxx (Jul 12, 2011)

Nice setup you have going thus far!!! I really want to keep Discus, but I'm afraid to take the leap because I'm 70% sure I'd kill'em lol. Maybe I'll try next year, I've been in the hobby for over 20 years, and I'm still trying to "master" the planted tank side of the hobby. Most of my years have been spent keeping new world cichlids (pretty much all of them except for Discus).


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## WallaceGrover (Jan 15, 2011)

That's gorgeous. What are you feeding the discus?


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

xxUnRaTeDxxRkOxx said:


> Nice setup you have going thus far!!! I really want to keep Discus, but I'm afraid to take the leap because I'm 70% sure I'd kill'em lol. Maybe I'll try next year, I've been in the hobby for over 20 years, and I'm still trying to "master" the planted tank side of the hobby. Most of my years have been spent keeping new world cichlids (pretty much all of them except for Discus).


this is my first discus keeping and after studying, its really not that hard. but to got to keep clean water. so far they are doing great. 
read upon simply discus forum and u will realize its not too bad.


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

WallaceGrover said:


> That's gorgeous. What are you feeding the discus?


i feed them freeze dried blackworms, frozen blackworms, some frozen beefhearts and sometimes live blackworms.

they love the live worms the most but im trying not to feed them those cuz of risk of transmitting diseases.


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## Chrisinator (Jun 5, 2008)

Wow, amazing fish!


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

added more discus from QT tank into main tank. total count is 19 now. 6 more waiting to be added soon...


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## trailsnale (Dec 2, 2009)

just read thru your build...great job. can't believe it's taken off so well, so quickly.

dumb question(s!!!!):

do you calculate your water change percentages based upon tank volume or tank + sump volume?

same w/ ferts?

thanks,


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

What are your nutrient levels right before you do a water change? 

N, P, K, GH, and KH? 

What do you use to raise GH, if anything? 

What are you adding for trace elements? How much and how frequently?


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

trailsnale said:


> just read thru your build...great job. can't believe it's taken off so well, so quickly.
> 
> dumb question(s!!!!):
> 
> ...


I do add sump and tank volume to get total water volume.


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

Phil Edwards said:


> What are your nutrient levels right before you do a water change?
> 
> N, P, K, GH, and KH?
> 
> ...


I do weekly 80% water change. And this maintains gh, kh. I also have ph controller. I havent measured these levels cuz with frequent wc, the npk geta replenished and fish add to it. 
So i dont have to dose npk. 
I do add trace weekly after wc.


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## jimbo662 (Aug 4, 2013)

What type of filtration are you using?


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## tomfromstlouis (Apr 2, 2012)

You are going to have 25 discus in a 265g tank? I think 19 is already pushing it. Your enthusiasm is showing!


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

Dkreef,

I asked about your nutrient levels because an imbalance will affect plant growth and nutrient uptake. For example, if your N is low then your plants won't be taking up as much P, and vice versa. Knowing your levels right before you do a water change and then again right after might help you fix an imbalance. That will end up being better for your plants and your fish in the long run.

Cheers,
Phil


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

tomfromstlouis said:


> You are going to have 25 discus in a 265g tank? I think 19 is already pushing it. Your enthusiasm is showing!


u think so tom?
ive asked discus experts on this and they think 25 is just right.
some even suggest more than 30 but i disagree with that.


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

Phil Edwards said:


> Dkreef,
> 
> I asked about your nutrient levels because an imbalance will affect plant growth and nutrient uptake. For example, if your N is low then your plants won't be taking up as much P, and vice versa. Knowing your levels right before you do a water change and then again right after might help you fix an imbalance. That will end up being better for your plants and your fish in the long run.
> 
> ...


i did measure before and after once but forgot readings. ill try that and see what difference there is.


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## tomfromstlouis (Apr 2, 2012)

dkreef said:


> u think so tom?
> ive asked discus experts on this and they think 25 is just right.
> some even suggest more than 30 but i disagree with that.


Mine was a gut reaction; the experts on Simply are a much better resource. 

I overstocked a tank once and the disease wiped out ALL of the big fish over time. It is a mistake I will never come close to repeating.


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

How did overstocking cause disease?
Did water quality go down or lack of qt cause disease spread?


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## tomfromstlouis (Apr 2, 2012)

How? Not sure. I am no fish disease expert. It was not a quarantine issue; it was an established tank with long term residents that grew and grew.

Let's start with what we know: stocking levels for a given tank can be higher if you make DAILY 80% water changes versus, say, MONTHLY. So water quality must cumulatively degrade if your water change regime is not up to the stocking levels. Mine obviously wasn't. Once whatever pathogen or disease vector got started in my tank it infected each and every angel despite increased water changes etc.

If you and your advisors believe your water change regime is up to your stocking and feeding levels, go on and ignore me. I am no expert in what you are doing. I only know that I take overcrowding seriously and am not interested in pushing the boundaries of that issue. 

Visually and aesthetically I think that a dozen discus of the size and beauty you have would give my eyes all they need.


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## trailsnale (Dec 2, 2009)

i have nothing to add to the number of discus that should be kept in the tank.

but i remember seeing tom's angel tank and thinking, from an aesthetic point, i appreciated the 'fewer' number of angels he could have housed. the fewer number had a calming affect, at least to me. just my .02

certainly op's tank is gorgeous!

thanks,


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

updated photo few weeks ago:











plants are overgrown and need trimming. tomorrow is scape meeting so i may get some more plants to add. also plan to get some amano shrimps.


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## Jester946 (Mar 30, 2013)

Amanos will be fine at 83 degrees.


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## tomfromstlouis (Apr 2, 2012)

I compliment you on your plant growth. Not all plants thrive in discus temps and you have found a bunch that are doing well indeed. The finer grain of the smaller leaves compliment the big fish nicely, but I wonder if you have thought about maybe one larger leaf plant for more contrast in the scape? Just a thought...


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

tomfromstlouis said:


> I compliment you on your plant growth. Not all plants thrive in discus temps and you have found a bunch that are doing well indeed. The finer grain of the smaller leaves compliment the big fish nicely, but I wonder if you have thought about maybe one larger leaf plant for more contrast in the scape? Just a thought...


i was just thinking about this.
im getting tired of stems plants in the background. most of them grow tall but their bottom half leafs have fallen off and only top 1/2 leaves stay on healthy(more towards top). i guess my light is low par for the back. 

i have bacopa, wisteria, ludiwiga repens in the back. 
i wanna try some larger leafed plants in the background.

any suggestions as far as which are hardy and require low light to stay healthy and grow?

also wouldnt mind some red/brown leaved plants.


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## tomfromstlouis (Apr 2, 2012)

Isn't there a list of higher temp tolerant plants on the Simply site? Discuspaul probably has mentioned some before also.


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

Any of the Hygrophila species will do well for a broad leaved green background plant. Crypt balansae, spiralis, and retrospiralis all performed well for me too. Other "strappy" type plants would be Vallisneria and some of the Aponogeton. A. crispus and longiplumulous (?) do well at higher temps too. 

Ammania gracilis and A. senegalensis both do well and will add some red/pink/brown. You could try Pogostemon stellatus or Ludwigia inclinata as well.

If you want to get fancy get some egg crate light panels, zip tie some plastic mesh used for textile hobbies, and super glue your favorite epiphytes to it then stick it against the back glass. Bingo, insta plant-wall (once it grows in). I've had good results with Anubias, Java Fern, and Bolbitis using this method. Sandwiching moss between two sheets then zipping it to the egg crate also works. Just make sure to spray paint the egg crate with Krylon Fusion or Rust O Leum paint first. Krylon's supposed to make a better bond, but Rust O Leum's always worked well for me. Both are discus safe.


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## kryton2005 (Sep 13, 2013)

Woah, awesome tank man, would love to have a setup like this one day.


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

New pics after adding 7 new fish from qt tank. 
Now have 22 total fish in main tank. Still have 4 more in qt. 























































Rummynoses:









One of new fish added. Piwowski cobalt blue. My new fav one.


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## ua hua (Oct 30, 2009)

Those are some beautiful fish and the tank is looking nice. Do they show any aggression with that many full grown discus in a tank together?


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## drewsuf82 (May 27, 2012)

I'd just like to say one word here....

Stunning


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

ua hua said:


> Those are some beautiful fish and the tank is looking nice. Do they show any aggression with that many full grown discus in a tank together?


With cichlids, the more crowded it is, the less aggression they show.


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## Fishnshrimp2 (Sep 13, 2013)

Awesome looking planted tank! It looks like it would be so peaceful to sit and watch. I may try to plant my 55g after seeing this


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

All fish are in. 26 total. And i got no more room for anymore.


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## FishStix (Sep 19, 2013)

That is great setup, what are the dimensions of the tank?
Can you share any details about your QT setup? I will be setting up large tank in a few months, so I am interested in what you plan to run long term for QT or grow out?

Thanks so much


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## walluby (Dec 3, 2007)

*Hey neighbor*

Just noticed that you live in La Mirada. 
So do I. Check out my Discus and Discus
planted tanks on Simply Discus.com
user: wannafish


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## du3ce (Jan 26, 2013)

awesome tank


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## thelub (Jan 4, 2013)

So now that you've been out of the reef for a while and into a beautiful FW planted tank, are you glad you made the switch? Is your direct involvement and maintenance with the tank less compared to the reef? I think it looks amazing and you've done a quality reinvention with this tank.


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## Landmines (Aug 19, 2013)

drooool....almost every fish keepers dream right here...hopefully someday I can have a beautiful school of discus like yours.


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

FishStix said:


> That is great setup, what are the dimensions of the tank?
> Can you share any details about your QT setup? I will be setting up large tank in a few months, so I am interested in what you plan to run long term for QT or grow out?
> 
> Thanks so much


Well tank is 265 gal with 120gal sump. 
Tank is 84" L x 30" wide x 24" tall. Sump is 4x2x2' 

Ive been using two 40B gal tanks and another 26gal bow front tank for qt tanks. 
U can see thr set pic in this earlier post in this thread. 
Mainly sponge filter and heater with almost daily 80% wc. 
I got my first discus in may and yesterday was when qt is finished cuz i bought couple to several at a time. Total of 5 groups. 
Im so glad its over cuz while they were in qt, that was way too much work. 
Right now, i dont plan to breed so no plan for grow out but who knows whats in store for the future.


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

walluby said:


> Just noticed that you live in La Mirada.
> So do I. Check out my Discus and Discus
> planted tanks on Simply Discus.com
> user: wannafish


Thats awesome. I got another friend here in la mirada with planted discus tank. He has mutiple tanks. We should get together sometime just to talk discus and plants. Pm me buddy.


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

thelub said:


> So now that you've been out of the reef for a while and into a beautiful FW planted tank, are you glad you made the switch? Is your direct involvement and maintenance with the tank less compared to the reef? I think it looks amazing and you've done a quality reinvention with this tank.


Im glad i switched over for sure. Reef was just too much work for me. Altho qt of discus wasnt easy, now that they are all in, maintenance should be easy with just large weekly wc or possibly no manual wc with daily automated wc system. 
Ive kept every kind of tank before(all top quality setup and fish) and this one is my favorite. 
Thanks.


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## xmas_one (Feb 5, 2010)

David, any updates on this tank?


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## FishFinatic (Oct 24, 2011)

Your tank is awesome! Hope mine turns out this well. 

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