# vvDO's 20L Major rescape Dutch style



## Sajacobs (Aug 24, 2012)

That piece of driftwood is so cool. It does look like something from another planet. It's going be amazing when the plants fill in.


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Thanks... And to think I almost went with another piece.


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

It's been a week since initial setup...
Went away for 4 days and came back to about half my plants melting.
Water change 50% then tested
2ppm ammonia
No nitrites or nitrates

I started dosing macros today, drop checker is a darker green so I also increased CO2

Also note that even with high levels of ammonia, hitchhiker snails are growing and very active. Must be the low pH created by aquasoil or they are super hardy (had 4-8ppm the night before I left)


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## GMYukonon24s (May 3, 2009)

Nice start!


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

GMYukonon24s said:


> Nice start!


Thanks!!

Some growth is visible after the major meltdown.

More testing and ammonia is holding steady at 2 ppm
pH is super low, API is yellow which is 6 but I'm sure it's lower than that.

One question... Anyone have any experience with UP Aqua's drop checker? Reliability?


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

We've got nitrites... finally!!!

Also have a better feel for the drop checker and have fine tuned CO2, turning green with just 2 bps. Instead of using the solution provided, I added my 3 drops of my API pH test kit to 4 kdh solution.

There has been some nice growth on my stem plants and dwarf hairgrass, added mini bolbitis, E. setacium, and rotala indica "singapore"

Pics to come soon.


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

View from left...









View from right...









Drop checker...









Center...


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

*Update after trimming 2/12/13*

After a nice trimming of R. macandra and R. indica 'Singapore' I was surprised to find only one stem floating after last nights trim.









Erio setaceum (named Erio giant crown at AFA) hanging in there...









Start of some algae on wood only, now maybe the snails will leave my plants alone...









Full tank shot...


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## Adri. (Sep 6, 2012)

Looks nice! I love that driftwood!


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Adri. said:


> Looks nice! I love that driftwood!


Thanks, I can't wait to start attaching stuff to it.


Any have any recommendations on what and where plants would look best. I have the following which I can take from other tanks... fissidens, christmas moss, anubias nana. Currently only have mini bolbitis, however not sure if I can get it to attach.


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Ammonia = 0 zilch, nada... Zero

Nitrites and nitrates super high, 70% water change. Going to look for assassin snails, to help keep my ramshorn and mts in check.


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Ammonia and nitrites are zero. Nitrates at around 20-40 ppm, another w/c. Now need to decide on stocking.

Cliffhangers...


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

My fav part of the tank









Crypt ?sp









FTS after a trimming


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Your aquarium is really looking good! Looks like you are really starting to see some nice growth!


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## Mumford (Nov 12, 2012)

*vvDO's 20L "Spaceship" Trim and update 2/26/13*

What's that little clover stem thing you have in there?


- Mumford


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Hydrocotyle, unsure of the species, it's a type of pennywort


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

johnson18 said:


> Your aquarium is really looking good! Looks like you are really starting to see some nice growth!


I'm surprised myself especially after everything melted early on. CO2 and ada amazonia are amazing. Soon I will be running out of room.


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Koi angels scouting their new home...









So far they have been hanging out together. Will let them rest with lights off until tomorrow and see if they will start eating.


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Weed trimming time.

E. setaceum split so I divided it and replanted the 2 stems. Left the rooted stem without crown to see what happens.

Rotalas macandra Japanese and "indica singapore" (which is probably a variety of rotundifolia) grow like crazy and still need some more trimming.

A couple of additions added last week... L. Aromatica and hygro augustifolia.


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## ccbeauch (Jul 29, 2012)

I started with a 20 long too! mine didn't look half as nice as yours does though... had nice white clown puke with 3 sword plants from petsmart. I guess you can say I've grown up since then... Your tank looks great through. Keep up the good work.


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Thanks cc, took a look at your discus journal... Were you able to get rid of your algae?

Here's an update... 

Full tank shot









Close up left of center...









Otto sitting on a leaf...









Angel #1









Angel #2


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## tizzite (Mar 28, 2010)

I get the spaceship reference- it's like the one in Alien and Prometheus!


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## AguaTropical (Apr 3, 2013)

As many others have said, that piece of DW is incredible and very unique...good find! Lol


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## sunyang730 (Jan 30, 2012)

I see a picture of some green sponge. The community need a explanation of what you use it for. LOL


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Tiz... Yes but sunken. Lol.

Aqua... Thanks, I bet it would look even better in a 40B.



sunyang730 said:


> I see a picture of some green sponge. The community need a explanation of what you use it for. LOL


Those are in my canister filter to provide surface area for biological filtration. 6 for $1 at the dollar store.


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## tomfromstlouis (Apr 2, 2012)

I like how this is evolving vvDO. You are getting some nice growth and ought to be hacking away at stems on a regular basis I expect. 

Hey , why not hide the heater in back behind plants or the dw?


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

tomfromstlouis said:


> I like how this is evolving vvDO. You are getting some nice growth and ought to be hacking away at stems on a regular basis I expect.
> 
> Hey , why not hide the heater in back behind plants or the dw?


Major drop-off of light at the edges of the tank since the bulbs are 22" and the tank is 30". If I place the heater at back I would lose prime growing real estate.


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## theericafish (Apr 27, 2012)

Damn heaters and their awkward sizes. If you put it in the back left corner horizontal behind the stems it might make your stems look a little fuller because it would push them forward a bit. The plants will find their way around it. It does look like a good setup as is though because with your outflow blowing on the heater you want get cold spots in the tank when the heater is on. Not that it matters a ton. Good looking tank though, the 20l has so much variety of planting styles. Probably my favorite tank size so far. I want a 40b pretty badly! Too bad stands for 40b are limited outside diy. :0

Some Anubias Nana petite would look great in the right side of the driftwood.


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Petco has a stand made for a 40B, may not be the best looking but it should do.


Here's a video...

Current stocking.
2 Koi angels
3 golden long fin rams
3 ottos
7 white clouds (feeder quality)
Bought 6 Amano shrimp however I rarely see them


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## tylergvolk (Jun 17, 2012)

Nice piece of wood bro!


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Thanks!

I really need to update, only minor changes, trimmed hairgrass, added 2 more white clouds.

Video in my previous post isn't working for me, so here's the link...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...DEC7E69-4196-000005778078C511_zps56dba644.mp4


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Added a few... P. Erectus, H. pinnatifida, some limno (thin jagged leaves), downoi

Significant trimming yesterday, had to cut hairgrass down, it reached just past the upper wood.

Since last update, 1 golden ram died, cause unknown. 1 week later, 6 of 9 white clouds had jumped over a weekend while I was away... Maybe my feeder scared them or didn't feed them enough and angels started hunting. This was over a month ago and everything's been fine since.


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## GMYukonon24s (May 3, 2009)

Sorry to hear about the casualties. You have some beautiful angels!


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Thanks, I bet they can't wait until I can upgrade to a 40B or 50.


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

*Update 12/2014*

Long overdue for an update... A few plant changes, no more vals, hairgrass, hygrophila, and p erectus. I have added t. fluv, some type of p stellatus narrow I think, x-mass moss, a couple buce's, A reiniki mini and fissidens attached to DW. Some more minor changes in plants. Fauna... golden ram eventually perished, I now have 5 pencil fish, 5 until they spawned and 2 survived my angels. 1 endler was added and seems to be ok, also added back a single white cloud. I also changed lighting, now have 2x finnex planted LED's.

Prior to this pick, the tank was exteremely overgrown, now also have some hair type aglae attached to DW and it keeps spreading despite proper CO2 (well I think proper, I keep increasing a small amount every 2-3 days.) and finally getting back to a regular fert schedule. Also as you can see in the last photo especially, GSA on the glass. Otherwise plants are flourishing, soon time for another trim.


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Excuse the thermometer... Didn't want to get my hands wet again


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Resurrection!!!

Tanks still alive, here it is after another 2 moves.

Lighting is now a 16” SBreeflight... never ever ever ever had red plants like I do now. Doesn’t even compare to my 40B with 6 t5HO tubes. Java moss actually started burning when I first got the light and had to turn it down.










Back side with all the red stems











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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

I’ve never really tried to scape a tank, I’ve just been shoving plants in whenever I get them and trim them down when they reach the top. Due to the above about 2 years ago I inadvertently introduced the UG that you don’t want in your tank. It eventually got crazy and was everywhere. I also recently picked up some BDBS, which I use in another tank, a 40B and love how easy it is to plant in.

2 days ago I started working on this monstrosity of a tank. No before pictures because it was so embarrassing.

Out went aquasoil... out went all the plants and fish. I picked through every stem that was worth keeping and removed as much of the UG pest I could find and set it aside. Due to aquasoil plus crypts while trying to catch the remaining fish, I could not see any further, so some fish stayed in a bucket overnight. Yesterday had a couple of hours to catch remaining Kuhli loaches, remove rest of substrate. Wood is also gone from tank. Right now it’s sitting in a container filled with regular water. Not sure if I’m keeping it or what yet. All I know for sure, it’s not going back in the 20L... one of the main reasons it’s out... too much real estate... took up about 1/3 of the planting space, also created too much shade and never had a real good light spread and flow was meh.

Well when all was done I think I may have lost 1-2 fish... found 1 dried up a few feet away probably stuck to wood as I pulled it out or who knows, most fish were accounted for and back in the tank. 

I still have about a 12”x4” mat of erio’s (unknown variety)in a bucket... very difficult to pick through, I may just sell it off... must be a good 20-30 individual plants.

Here it is just as I finished it yesterday, still very cloudy, hopefully will clear up soon...











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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

2 days later, getting home from Santa Cruz, couldn’t believe no issues given how much I messed around in the tank. Kuhli loaches not super happy, need to find them some cover.

Anyhow... here’s the tank today. I put up a black sheet temporarily to hide my water heater in the background hehe  











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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

About 1 week later trim, water change.

Massive amounts of green dust algae everywhere and green water, never really had an issue with gda before except for on the glass. I also had a bunch of surface film, I think from BDBS. So far most happy about not seeing any Utricularia gibba.  

Plants are growing despite the algae so I trimmed a bunch and replanted trying to increase my biomass. So easy without a giant hunk of driftwood and no aquasoil.

Here we are after a trim and water change, waters a bit cloudy and my iPhone camera is doing something weird with focus and color saturation.











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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Nice! You're gonna love working with bdbs

That GDA is probably just a new tank phase. I get it every time from switching substrates even if the filter is cycled.


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

burr740 said:


> Nice! You're gonna love working with bdbs
> 
> That GDA is probably just a new tank phase. I get it every time from switching substrates even if the filter is cycled.



This is my first go with BDBS alone hoping I can keep substrate clean and not develop the “mud” with other substrates. Prior ADA aquasoil had been in the tank for about 6 years.

My main challenge would be to keep up with dosing. I’m considering dropping some root tabs as I’m seeing a lot more “aerial” roots than before, especially from Ludwigia arcuata, Ammannia pedicellata and Rotala H’ra. I know these plants usually throw roots above substrate so it may not help so I’m going to wait and see.



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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Had the day off today so I got to check on things earlier in the day. I see that some plants don’t have a speck of GDA yet others are almost covered except for a few leaves. Some plants have not opened up yet as lights on was only a few minutes earlier.

Here’s Rotala macrandra mini, Rotala macrandra ?red, Limnophila aromatica mini, Ammannia pedicellata(front left) and Hydrophila pinnatifida.

Also some unknown plant 2 small leaves per node alternating. Sorry for the bad pic, GDA plus couldn’t focus well due to the glass. If anyone can ID?


















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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Turkey Day update...

Initial GSA still sticking around just barely, most plants have started to really grow and fill out, primarily Rotala macandra mini and limnophila aromatica mini. The main issue I’ve had since the last update was a BGA outbreak. It grew mostly on substrate, wry little on plants when it crept up or surrounded the base of some plants. First I tried to clean it up, water change, kept feeding at a minimum and it just laughed at me... pearling away it seemed more so than my plants. After a week or so I just had enough, picked out as much as I could and broke out erythromycin... dosed at about 1/4 strength (1/2 packet x 2 doses). On the third day it seems to be gone. Although after the first dose I now have to deal with cloudy water. Water change is due so I plan to take care of that and possibly a filter clean if I have time. In case that doesn’t do the trick I have a UV sterilizer I can add.

If anyone can ID the plant in center last photo, same plant as above post, was able to get a better shot of it.



























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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Tank is really getting there. An awful lot going right.

A little fine tuning, and I am looking forward to seeing where this goes.

Nice work!


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Ludwigia ovalis or simpsonii.....maybe


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## Kriskm (Nov 16, 2018)

Love the new scape and that is a lot of plant growth! Are those black emperor tetras? I like how they stand out against the plants.


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Greggz said:


> Tank is really getting there. An awful lot going right.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks, I hope I can keep it up.



burr740 said:


> Ludwigia ovalis or simpsonii.....maybe



I’m sure I have ovalis or a hybrid in my 40B, much bigger, 2-3x leaf size than this plant. I can’t find many pics of simpsonii online to compare. Now that it’s growing much better, I took a look at aquatic plant central’s plant finder and best I could come up with was Cuphea anagalloidea, any chance?



Kriskm said:


> Love the new scape and that is a lot of plant growth! Are those black emperor tetras? I like how they stand out against the plants.


Thank you... I believe so, love the eye color as well, some green, some blue.


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## TheUnseenHand (May 14, 2017)

Tank looks beautiful!

I'm in the process of setting up a 20 gallon long, and am in need of a lighting fixture. I was really thinking of going with a 4 bulb T5 fixture, but seeing those plants under LED has me contemplating one of the 18" SB Reef Lights fixtures. My fear is that I won't get coverage over the entire tank. What has your experience been? Any shadows at the ends? Could you possibly post a full tank shot with the light on? 

Thank you!


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

TheUnssenHand said:


> Tank looks beautiful!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks!

The edges are a bit dim, if I raise the light a few more inches and turn it up I may have the coverage I need. On the right side you can see Rotala H’ra which should be a nice pink/reddish hue is looking more yellow-green. Ch 1 is at around 40-50%, ch 2 around 60-70% so I have a lot of room to raise the fixture. Only downside would be light spillage and gsa on glass given the 12” width.

I have a 6 bulb 24” fixture over a 40B with only 4 bulbs on and it’s not performing well. Not all can be attributed to the light though. Tank is over stocked and has a HOB filter which degasses my CO2. I run through a 20lb tank there in about 3 months whereas a 15lb on the 20L with same diffusion method has a canister and I haven’t swapped my tank out in about 1 year. With all 6 bulbs going I was getting a lot of bba on equipment and on low light plants. Thinking of placing that light fixture over this tank just to see what the edges look like.


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## MCFC (Feb 12, 2017)

vvDO said:


> ... a 40B... Tank is over stocked and has a HOB filter which degasses my CO2. I run through a 20lb tank there in about 3 months whereas a 15lb on the 20L with same diffusion method has a canister and I haven’t swapped my tank out in about 1 year.


20lb CO2 --> 40g = 3 months
15lb CO2 --> 20g = 12 months+

Huh???

Clearing a 20lb tank of CO2 into a 40g tank in ~3 months is insanity! Something is seriously not right there. Running a HOB does not account for anywhere near that amount of off-gassing. 

I recently started using 2 huge sponge filters in my tank. One of them causes waaaayyyy more surface agitation (off-gassing) that even the biggest HOB, let alone running two. My pH now drops to 6.3, where it use to drop to 6.2 without the sponge filters. You're almost certainly dealing with a leak (or a few).


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Check valves have caused me more leaks than anything, be sure to check those too.

Agree that it's not the HOB. Unless you're running the co2 directly into it, Aquaclears are the only kind that will work for that without a severe loss


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

I’ll run a leak check and see if anything is leaking. 


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

I trimmed and water change Friday, gave away some clippings to a local club member, hoping that by today water would be clear... nope... still dealing with cloudy water which I think may be due to a mini cycle. I really have not had to deal with cloudy water for more than 1-2 days in the past so this has me confused, maybe I’ve just been lucky so far. I broke down and added a UV sterilizer which I’ve had new in box for over a year. While that’s doing it’s thing, I thought I’d post a pic of my 40B “jungle” aquarium. Please ignore the floating trimmings in the upper right side of the tank.











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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Clear water!!!

Green glass ?!&@$/ Ugh!

Anyhow, just gotta wait it out I guess, I couldn’t resist cleaning it up though, so it will likely come back. Water changed, trimmed right side of the tank. Already know the AR Variegata is getting to large for it’s spot especially since everything behind it is growing fairly slow in comparison. I’m going to up my macro dosing a bit to see if plants grow any better. So far very happy no significant stunting as compared to my 40B.

Following pic is just moonlights on (3 6500K bulbs only), channel 1 should be coming on soon, just liked the way it looked in my dark garage so snapped a pic.










Here it is just now, close to 2/3 into light cycle, all channels on.

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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

It’s good to be GREEN!

I’ve just let the tank sit hoping it would work it’s way out. It just gets greener and greener as time goes. Changed water 4 days ago, today massive green water. Changed water again today, scraped the thinnest GDA off front glass just so I can look in, make sure plants etc are ok. Plants are growing great with exception of ammannia pedicellata.

Might as well show the bad too...












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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Wow when you said green water, you weren't kidding!

Have you tried running a UV?


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Greggz said:


> Wow when you said green water, you weren't kidding!
> 
> 
> 
> Have you tried running a UV?




I do, I had it on for 3 days before my prior post and it got clear, should have kept it in. Oh well! If I have time tonight I will drop it back in.


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

vvDO said:


> It’s good to be GREEN!
> 
> I’ve just let the tank sit hoping it would work it’s way out. It just gets greener and greener as time goes. Changed water 4 days ago, today massive green water. Changed water again today, scraped the thinnest GDA off front glass just so I can look in, make sure plants etc are ok. Plants are growing great with exception of ammannia pedicellata.
> 
> ...



Wish you lived in my neck of the world. There is a Betta breeder near me that would just LOVE all that green water. Not sure what she uses it for but it was part of our discussion last weekend.


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Immortal1 said:


> Wish you lived in my neck of the world. There is a Betta breeder near me that would just LOVE all that green water. Not sure what she uses it for but it was part of our discussion last weekend.



My guess is to grow daphnia, it feeds a daphnia culture.


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Tomorrow will be exactly 2 months since I re-scaped the tank.

I wish I had snapped a pic before I started working on the tank. If you look back a few posts you will see serious green water, and GDA all over tank walls and on some plants. Last time I worked on the tank I trimmed a bunch and water changed 2x. I also re-installed my UV sterilizer and literally left it alone for 10 days as I visited my family for X-mas. Returned late Saturday night and tank looked OK, fish doing well as my feeder seemed to have worked. I dose a full week of macros day before I left, but only gave 1 dose of micros. Plants were all accounted for, a bit on the “thin” side, most plants had used up/lost their lower leaves and new leaves were substantially smaller than old growth especially on R. macandra. Glass was covered in GDA yet water was super clear! Yay!

Yesterday got my hands wet, scraped all 4 sides with a razor, tried to siphon out as much as I could, which amounted to about a 60-70% water change. Replanted most groups. Ran out of time so I did not get to the filter (went to see Aquaman).

First pic is from last night a few hours after working on the tank. Second pic was about an hour ago.




















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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Today I finally got around to cleaning out the canister filter... yuck! I let it go at least 2 months over, I’m sure it had a lot to do with the issues I’ve had recently.

Since last update I’ve also managed to end green water. No UV filter since last water change. I also have managed to get rid of green dust algae, well 95% of it anyway. I couldn’t resist a small group of zebra oto’s and in 1 day have cleared up most of it. Now I’m wishing I could make more algae for them.

3-4 days ago I trimmed the right side only Ludwigia arcuata and rotala H’ra/colorata (can’t remember anymore). Today I trimmed the rest. All plants are doing well except for the left side of the tank, 2 in fact... Pentorum s. and Ammannia pedicellata. Pentorum I think is just not getting enough light and I’ve done a prior trimming only without replanting. Ammannia was previously covered in algae, now half the plants are starting to put out nice yellow leaves albeit small. I am going to increase my macro dosing and see what happens.











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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

I've been working on obtaining dry ferts, I have been using a very old liquid mix... not even going to mention the name.

I measured phosphates after 3-4 days after a water change and barely got a color change... so now I know I'm either not adding enough phosphates or plants are eating it up. Nitrates were somewhere between 20-40 (API test kit so who really knows). I then got around to testing Ca, and my tank is registering <= 20. I am waiting on a KH/GH test kit so I can be sure of my GH more than anything. If higher than I suspect, I may adjust dosing below.

I also tested my dirted 40B, same calcium yet interestingly I was seeing some phosphates between 1-2. probably leaching from soil or from some fertilizer tabs I had placed on startup and about 6 months ago.

My biggest complaint about my plants are curled and smaller leaves than usual so I am guessing it has to do with some deficiency of Macros (my guess is Ca or Mg or my ratio is way off, the only ones I'm sure I am getting enough of are N and K, just in case I have some KNO3 on hand.

So I decided to really go for it and control the heck out of my ferts starting with macros (N,P,K,Ca,Mg).

I want to target about NPK of 20/5/30 and obtain a ratio of Ca:Mg of around 3:1 . so I calculated it out and will share below in case I've made any mistakes someone can hopefully correct me and in case I lose my scribbled paper.

1000mL solution, 20 mL dose for a 20 gallon tank.
KH2PO4 = 27.12 g (P 5, K 2.06)
MgNO3 = 78.12 g (N 10, Mg 1.96)
CaNO3 = 104.81 g (N 14.54 Ca 4.7)
Dry dosing Seachem Equilibrium at 10.87g gives me roughly K=28, Ca=11.57, Mg=3.46, Fe= 0.16, Mn=0.09
dgH goes up by 3.52

total dosing:
N= 24.5, P=5, K=30, Ca= 16.3, Mg = 5.4, Fe= 0.16, Mn= 0.09

Any thoughts or suggestions, please fire away, this is my first go at this. Next I will tackle micros.


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Sounds reasonable. Might do better with less K but with Equilibrium you're pretty much stuck with it. Probably not worth worrying about for now

Fe...might be a little low. Especially getting it in one dose per week (if Im understanding the plan)

What about other micros?


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

burr740 said:


> Sounds reasonable. Might do better with less K but with Equilibrium you're pretty much stuck with it. Probably not worth worrying about for now
> 
> Fe...might be a little low. Especially getting it in one dose per week (if Im understanding the plan)
> 
> What about other micros?


Once I run out of equilibrium I will change or I can just dose less of it and get MgSO4 and CaSO4 in the meantime.

I'm currently dosing a csm+b liquid solution at whatever 1/2 EI is at... haven't crunched the #'s yet. I now have Wed afternoons off, so I can spend a little more time on my tanks and plan to try a custom mix once I get my macros going and further fine tune my dosing, etc.


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

It’s been a while since my last post so a lot to update. 

I’ve been dealing with BBA on some plants for a while, and a fuzzy green algae growing on most leaves that are older than a couple of days and it just seemed to be getting worse.

I also saw some serious stunting on a Rotala Mac and Ammannia. Ludwigia arcuata which used to put out larger red leaves has become more dark green and very small leaves plant. AR variegata was looking worse and I really wanted to give up on it... looks killer in my other tank so was thinking of moving it back there. Most other plants were doing just OK or a bit better, nothing really going very well.

I have since gotten hold of an apogee par meter and took some measurements. I took very quick measurements and I did not write them down at the time. I was seeing over 200 par dead center and about 40 on the right and left edges. I decided to raise the light about 10 inches and readings were closer to 100-120 center and 60 on the edges. I could have reduced the intensity however I wanted to get more light to the edges of the tank. I can still increase or decrease the light intensity since it is dimmable on 2 channels. After these adjustments it did not seem to help at all with BBA so had to do some more pondering.

I also changed my diffuser, ceramic disk busted and I had a spare diffuser so I switched it out. The new diffuser has even smaller bubbles and I had initially almost gassed the fish. I kind of anticipated this so I had been checking on them frequently that day. Since then I have been slowly increasing CO2.

I have also made my macro ferts with the formula in my last post and started dosing 2 weeks ago. When I tried to dissolve it all in 1,000 mL I was seeing undissolved ferts on the bottle, my guess is Ca. I ended up diluting it by adding 500 mL and adjusted my dosing by 10 mL so now in 1500 mL dosing 30 mL. I was thinking about Burr’s last post here and decided I can’t keep up with equilibrium, it’s too much K plus I was going to make a micro mix and didn’t want to go crazy adjusting for the Fe in both so I am working on eliminating it. Right now I am dosing about half dose of equilibrium along with my custom micro mix. Soon I will stop it completely to avoid any unknown variables with a pre-mixed compound, just want to see how things go for a short while and don’t want to completely shock the system. I will have to figure out how to get a little bit more Mg in, which will probably mean ordering MgSO4.

So what I have noticed is that I have been dosing way to much K. I had a micro mix that actually had a lot of K (somehow missed it even though it’s right on the label) along with equilibrium. So I have stopped it completely and have for the last 1 week dosing my own micros which I will post soon. I basically copied one of Burr’s prior mixes minus nickel (decided it wasn’t necessary to buy a huge amount only to use a barely any). Since I have made that change and dosing less equilibrium, almost all the stunting I was seeing had stopped and I started seeing some nicer leaves developing on Rotala mac. Most other plants seem to be adjusting well.

Water changed yesterday, will try to snap a pic soon.


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Here are some pics before last water change and trim. You can clearly see the fuzzy green/white algae on most stem plants.










Here it almost killed off my mermaid weed. There are some sprouts at the tip so I am hopeful.










Here’s an Ammannia with tortures leaves. Most plants had already started sprouting new starts along the stem I guess giving up on the top...









This moss is unlikely to make it... doing much better in my no CO2 no liquid fert medium light through out my excess plant tank. Same goes for the Ammannia sp. and Pedicellata.









Hopefully in a week or 2 can see some improvement.


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Water change yesterday, 50%.

I also took every plant with algae on it except a couple of more sensitive species and gave them a peroxide plus algae fix bath in a separate plastic container.

I then trimmed and replanted about 80% of the plants... took a while... whew.

I have noticed no more serious stunting, just a few curled leaves here and there. Algae is still an issue hence the H2O2 and algaecide bathe. In the last week I had reduced my macro dosing to 2/3 of what I was planning and will continue with that. This week I am thinking to hold off on equilibrium dosing altogether and just see what happens. I have KNO3 on hand if I think it seems like K is deficient.


















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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

I’m keeping up with my maintenance, another water change yesterday evening. 

Overall plant health seems OK. Some stems especially Rotalas are stunting, I’d say about half of the stems are showing some level of stunting. Definitely an improvement.

I’ve also noticed many plants have generally smaller leaves than I’m used to seeing. I have reduced light intensity so I’m guessing that could be the issue. I’m hesitant to turn the lights up in case that was the reason for the algae. I may consider once I’ve made some changes in fert dosing and the stunting lessens. My next step will be reducing iron and all micros to see if it helps with BBA, and reducing overall NPK. I am missing nickel in my micro mix, not sure if that has anything to do with any of my issues. I am assuming my tap water has enough.

I’m seeing a slight increase in BBA on leaves of slow growing plants and equipment.

Best news is a reduction in the green “fuzz” and BBA on the plants I dipped are turning red.

It was getting late so I did not have time to take a photo, maybe tonight.


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)




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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Ni isnt a problem unless you're dosing urea and have absolutely zero.

I think you're on the right track lowering things. Get NO3 down to 15-20/week, PO4 3-5, K 15-ish. 

Fe .3-.6 (weekly) DTPA with custom will do better than csmb, also needs spread out at least 3x week, not 1x


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

I’ve had some issues since the last update. In just a couple of days started getting green hair algae on almost everything.

So here’s what happened... in order to get more spread, I changed out 10 narrow lenses with 120 degree, I have a few more on the way hopefully arriving in the next month or so. It’s made a difference in spread would like to see a more even spread though. I also lowered the fixture about 4”. I believe the change in light and bottoming out of K, since I stopped using equilibrium (had wanted to see what happened with lower K) gave me one hellofa shift in balance. Like MG had done not so long ago, I dosed algae fix right away, and I did manage to kill off most of the algae. AR variegata, which has given me the most issues in this tank turned into a wretched mess. Thick green mat of algae on older leaves. One plant out of 5 looked half OK. I pulled most of the plants, keeping a few shoots that were growing normally and the one that looked half OK.

Rotala macandra(s) stunted once again, although I have noticed a lot of new normal growth. Interestingly Rotala Vietnam which had been struggling has some of the best growth I’ve seen since I added it to this tank.

Since the algae mess, I have made a separate KNO3 solution and have been dosing it along with my prior macro mix which I have reduced to keep NO3 at 20. I know my phosphate dosing is likely going to be on the lower end. I will hopefully remember to check P levels before my next water change to see if it’s bottoming out. I can also dry dose if necessary.

Tank just got a major trim so it’s still a bit cloudy with all my messing around. Maybe a pic once I replant Rotala’s.

Here’s a shot of Bow’s loving the flow in my 40B.










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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Things are looking up, had a mishap with CO2, I have been increasing ever so slightly to see if it would help give the plants a kick start. Before I cracked my old diffuser small changes on my pressure or opening up the needle valve would not make much difference. I ever so slightly increase pressure, only from 8.5 to just over 9 psi and fish were not happy at all, very listless, not even trying to get to the surface. So quick 5 gal water change about 2 days after last water change and fish perked up right away. 

Water has also been a bit cloudy lately, my UV sterilizer is on standby.

On the positive, most plants are showing steady normal growth. Ludwigia arcuata, which is usually a deep orange to red has been dark green for almost a month with leaves half the size or smaller than usual. I am finally seeing more normal looking growth. Macandras (reg and mini) both showing new growth. Still have the lower half full of algae, can’t wait until I get enough new clean stems so I can trash the old growth. Nessae pedicellata is trying really hard to put out fuller yellow leaves.

I’ve also picked up crypt crispatula “tonkinensis” and crypt spiralis “red”. Spiralis “red” has really kicked off, tokinensis seems to be adjusting, I see a few new leaves sprouting about, so I am hopeful. This is the 2nd time I’m trying it from tissue culture.

Here’s a shot as it was filling up... I was like woah, that actually looks kinda nice... and snapped a quick pic...











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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

As everyone may have seen I’ve since lowered my KH slowly from 5 to somewhere between 1-2.

I also had to deal with a BGA outbreak as well as continuous hair algae which I had bombed with Algaefix.

First thing I noticed is increased pearling. Once I noticed that I also started increasing my CO2, very gently.

Before this I noted a significant decrease in BBA and to this day still not seeing any new areas.

Here’s a pic from 2 minutes ago, finally most plants are growing as they should and I’ve never seen colors as deep red pink as I do now. WOW. 



























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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Can anyone tell me if this is a nutrient issue or physical damage (something has a taste for leafy greens).

Circled the areas of concern..,









Yellow circle probably nutrient older leaf when I had some deficiencies. Red arrow/circled areas looks like an tank inhabitant has been snacking...









Here’s Penthorum s. Showing the same.










Tank mates...
1 koi angel
3 Bose bows
2 Parkinsonii bows
2 unknown bows
9-10 Cory sterbai
3 rummy nose tetras 
2-3 blood fin tetras
2 Badis species 
2 Darios
2 Apistogramma cacatoides triple red
3-4 otto’s

2 nerite snails which were added after I noticed the damage already
Mix of rams horn, MTS and pond snails which I’ve had for a very long time.




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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Long time since my last update. Lots has happened...

First off I moved early July, not too far from my old house, took all 6 of my tanks with me of course.

We had someone moving in the next day kind of last minute, so it was crunch time to get them all moved, had a little help thankfully.

I had to break the 2 larger tanks down in order to avoid damaging the tanks. So I separated out plants, fish and substrate.

When I got everything back to the house, garage was not level, with a decent slant so spent a good amount of time with shims that were a bit to small and had to get creative.

By the time I had that figured out, plus other things to move and sort out at the old place, I was too exhausted and sore from the move to start planting everything. I got the fish in their tanks, filters and heaters running, crashed to bed. Work next day and more unpacking so another 1-2 days went by before I had a chance to get back to the tanks.

So day 3 or so after the move... planted my 20L, plants were generally OK, some were complaining a bit, may have lost a few stems, all fish were accounted for. Got it all set up looking a bit sparse though.

I had the most issues with my 40B, a good amount of dirt got pulled up with some well rooted plants and that stuff started to decay along with a decent amount of my plants. I picked through what I could, and was in basic salvage mode. I ended up tossing a great deal of plants and even today 1-2 species are still struggling. Luckily was able to nurse many of them back.

Then end of July had a 2 week vacation coming, no one was really free to keep an eye on the tanks. Also made the mistake of purchasing new fish about a week before I moved. About 2-3 days later noticed some white spots on some of my bows... oh ich!! Thanks to Greggz, I had some ich meds on hand so I was able to start treatment right away... thanks Greggz! One bow still had spots 3-4 days after daily treatments, so I asked my mother in law to add meds for another 1-2 days. While doing so I flicked my light timer on which also controls my 40B and 20L’s CO2, I did so in order to show her the spots and to stop treatment once spots were gone. Left that same day and of course lights and CO2 on the 40B stayed on 24/7 for 2 weeks. Also my CO2 stayed on 24/7 on my 20L while lights were only on for 7-8 hours (has a built in timer).

Plants were out of control in my 40B... kinda solved the problem of low plant mass... no kidding everything was huge and super colored almost the way they looked when I first got some of them from Burr... 

My 20L though... man, what a mistake... lost a few fish likely to CO2 tox and plants were not great and not bad, however there was some algae growing, likely due to increased ammonium and nitrates from dead fish. I’m sure water was acidic so doubt ammonia was a problem in itself to the fish, and it was mostly a CO2 overdose.

Well that was about 6 weeks ago. Since then I’ve had a bit more time to maintain, keeping the filters clean and been changing more than 50% weekly and things are looking up.

Here are some pics from 2-3 days ago.


20L...





































40B...























Also compare same plant in both tanks... 
ammannia pedicellata Golden...
Here it is looking tortured in my 20L vs 2 pics above in the 40B where it’s making a come back...










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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Great update! I like the backgrounds, especially the 20L


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

burr740 said:


> Great update! I like the backgrounds, especially the 20L




Thanks!

The background is light spill from the sb reef LED, at that time only 1 channel was on which mostly has red and blue LEDs.


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

vvDO said:


> Thanks!
> 
> The background is light spill from the sb reef LED, at that time only 1 channel was on which mostly has red and blue LEDs.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No kidding? Looks like the sky at sunset, I thought thats what it was haha


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Same. Either that or an LED strip behind the tank for that purpose. 

Looks great.



burr740 said:


> No kidding? Looks like the sky at sunset, I thought thats what it was haha


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

somewhatshocked said:


> Same. Either that or an LED strip behind the tank for that purpose.
> 
> 
> 
> Looks great.





burr740 said:


> No kidding? Looks like the sky at sunset, I thought thats what it was haha



May also be a combo of light spill from the 8x t5ho over 40B right beside it. I’ll pay more attention next time.

... went back and dimmed the LED channels one at a time, when I dimmed the channel with more 660 reds, the background dimmed as well, so I’m certain now it’s all light spill, colored LEDs have 120 degree lenses vs cool white and warm which have 60 or 90 degree lenses.


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Experimenting with some old lights. Original Finnex Planted+. Had these on this tank up to about 1-2 years ago. I’ve always liked them, just wanted to try something else and now they’re back on. I measured PAR when it was more heavily planted and with the huge hunk of driftwood getting around 90 directly under the light in center, then 60-70 off center or corners. With 2 lights I get better spread.

I’ve been dealing with a lot of GSA on plants in the center of the tank and wanted to see if changing the light with something that would give a more even spread would help. Time will tell. I don’t plan on changing anything else though I’m sure I will. Already thinking of adding a single 20” t5ho with a powerveg 660... I’m trying to resist. You can see the difference in photos, color cast is not the same as the SB Reef Light. Hoping I can keep the red plants.

What I like about it and you may not be able to see well in photos... the whole tank is lit up very evenly and of course looks brighter than since it’s mostly white LEDs and a good amount of 660 reds. No more super PAR mid tank and and dark edges. 

Top/down view








Straight on









Oh and I’ve also have a GDA problem as you can see. I cleaned off the front, will probably be back in 1-2 days... gotta wait it out.

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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

vvDO said:


> Already thinking of adding a single 20” t5ho with a powerveg 660... I’m trying to resist.


Why?

Might be a good combination.

My guess is you might need both a red and purple/blue bulb to find balance and make things pop.

But you never know until you try.


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Greggz said:


> Why?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Main reasons for waiting...

Want to try one thing at a time and follow what happens with GSA.

2nd a 20” bulb over a 30” tank leads to a similar scenario as with prior lighting.

My real plan...
I gotta get a 4ft tank going so I don’t have these coverage issues with t5’s and more PAR per bulb. 24” fixtures with 20” bulbs don’t have nearly the same punch as a 48” fixture.



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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

vvDO said:


> Experimenting with some old lights. Original Finnex Planted+. Had these on this tank up to about 1-2 years ago. I’ve always liked them, just wanted to try something else and now they’re back on. I measured PAR when it was more heavily planted and with the huge hunk of driftwood getting around 90 directly under the light in center, then 60-70 off center or corners. With 2 lights I get better spread.
> 
> I’ve been dealing with a lot of GSA on plants in the center of the tank and wanted to see if changing the light with something that would give a more even spread would help. Time will tell. I don’t plan on changing anything else though I’m sure I will. Already thinking of adding a single 20” t5ho with a powerveg 660... I’m trying to resist. You can see the difference in photos, color cast is not the same as the SB Reef Light. Hoping I can keep the red plants.
> 
> ...


 I like the light on the tank. Looks warm and shows colors of fish better. 

What is the darker colored fish with blue eye. Very pretty.


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Discusluv said:


> I like the light on the tank. Looks warm and shows colors of fish better.
> 
> What is the darker colored fish with blue eye. Very pretty.




It’s a type of emperor tetra, poor thing developed swim bladder issues recently, no signs of infection. Seems to have happened to 3 out of 6 in the 1-2 years I’ve had them. Lost 2 fish a few months ago then a 3rd fish got it now this one... any thoughts? They eat just fine, very aggressively swimming to the top when they know food’s coming.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Oh, that is too bad-- its such a beautiful fish. 
Ive never seen them before so not familiar with them. Ill need to read a bit on background. 

Of course, you have first analyzed the usual suspects ( stressors) when fish are sick: 1. water quality ( the usual ammonia, nitrite, nitrates) and 2. environmental issues : co2, fertilization, compatability between other species and con-specifics... 
If these have all checked out and only a specific species is becoming sick I always want to look at particular needs of this species: with water, with compatibility, with diet. This fish may have some specific needs that are causing stress and then disease. 

Swim-bladder issues where the fish lingers this way for awhile is typically due to either the fish overeating a food that is swelling gut causing obstruction and/or secondary bacterial infection or due to internal parasites that eventually lead to obstruction or secondary infection. May need to modify diet and/or treat with internal parasite med like General Cure ( active ingredients metronidazole/praziquantel). 

Or, if the swim-bladder issue comes on quickly in fish that have been in a tank for awhile ( the fish had been healthy upon introduction), the fish stop eating, and there are no other signs of illness can be due to internal bacterial infections (aeromonas bacteria, often.) But these are often cases where the issue isn't contained to one species because illness arises out of poor water quality or other environmental stressor. 

Is it possible for you to take a video of the fish so I can see swim movements?

How long last one affected like this?


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Discusluv said:


> Oh, that is too bad-- its such a beautiful fish.
> Ive never seen them before so not familiar with them. Ill need to read a bit on background.
> 
> Of course, you have first analyzed the usual suspects ( stressors) when fish are sick: 1. water quality ( the usual ammonia, nitrite, nitrates) and 2. environmental issues : co2, fertilization, compatability between other species and con-specifics...
> ...




The previous fish had it for several weeks or months. They died when I went away on vacation and inadvertently left CO2 on 24/7. So I was down to 4... soon after that I noticed one female started swimming upright to stay afloat and mostly resides on the bottom of the tank. It’s been like that since August. This fish started up 1-2 weeks ago. I change more than 50% weekly, feed NLS most of the time, sometimes hikari pellets, and an occasional frozen treat or freeze dried worms or fluval insect larvae.

I’ll see if I can snap a video. Basically he swims mostly in an upright position, the other one either sinks or swims. 

I gather if it were a parasite or infection they would die off fairly quickly?


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

vvDO said:


> I gather if it were a parasite or infection they would die off fairly quickly?
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Not necessarily. 

Parasites can live in their host for a long time-- it is not advantageous to them to kill their host. 
I would recommend deworming this tank with General Cure. It is harmless to plants and bio-filter and just might be what is going on here.


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Discusluv said:


> Not necessarily.
> 
> Parasites can live in their host for a long time-- it is not advantageous to them to kill their host.
> I would recommend deworming this tank with General Cure. It is harmless to plants and bio-filter and just might be what is going on here.




Thank you, I didn’t have or couldn’t find gen cure, I did have tetra parasite guard on hand so I started treatment last night. 


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

vvDO said:


> Thank you, I didn’t have or couldn’t find gen cure, I did have tetra parasite guard on hand so I started treatment last night.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 What are the active ingredients in this medication, Ive never used it. 

Hopefully it includes meds for internal parasites like metronidazole and praziquantel.

Edit: Actually, never mind, I found it-- it has good active ingredients. It has Praziquantel, Dflubenzuron ( flubendazole), Metronidazole and Acriflavin ( antibacterial).


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Just a photo update, can’t really tell if GSA on plants is improving or not. Glass is definitely cleaner. It’s not completely clear though much better than a wall of green as before. Color of plants not much different than it was before, so I think I’ll keep these lights for now. I’m not sure what helped Pantanal, I’ve never had large crowns like these in a while, nice color too.



































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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Tank is looking much better, a lot less algae, only what was left on old stems or leaves and some plants that were struggling a bit are looking much better. I have also lowered N and raised P, reduced micro dosing as well. Only one complaining is Pantanal meanwhile right next to it, Ludwigia “white” is just fine, currently transforming to submerged form.

I’ve noticed over the last few weeks, some plants develop a non adhering tuft of something that looks a little like bga and bba. I can fluff it off and siphon it out fairly easily or pick it out with tweezers... any idea how to get rid of it? 

Here’s a few photos from today a few hours after a big trim.




























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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

I went away for 2 weeks, no one at home to take care of the tanks.

Very overgrown, most stem plants were creating a lot of shade. Trimmed yesterday and here it is soon after I got home from work.

Dosing has been to a minimum for the 2+ weeks, still need to find time to make a new batch of macros and micros. Plants seem to be holding steady. I did drop a few individual osmocote+ granules before I left.

Most of the algae on plants has significantly reduced. Just some BBA on my filter output and BGA on my heater of all places. I have been cutting down on CO2 for some reason it’s been a bubble factory even with lower PAR. It may have to do with reduced flow, will know more now that the stems are trimmed way down.

Ludwigia white is actually doing ok and transitioning well from emmersed to submerged, and grows really slow compared to “cousin it”... I mean Pantanal.

The only plant not doing well is Ammannia gracilis, tortured mess it is.


















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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Mixed a new batch of ferts, basically along the lines of what Joe has been posting.

For macros I make a bottle of KNO3 and a separate bottle of KH2PO4. Realized it was difficult to make a solution for my 20L that gives 2PPM per 1 mL dose. Took a lot of shaking to get it all dissolved.

Last night I decided to test, trying to figure out why certain plants are doing really well and also noted some twisting in leaves of Ludwigia glandulosa. I tested for KH, GH and Ca.

Seems my KH is at 0-1, same for GH and calcium turned on the first drop so 0-20 and my Mg is probably also very low... hmm not expecting that at all. I moved in the summer only 2 miles away and either the water is so different (unlikely as it’s from the same treatment plant), or there has been a big change in our overall water chemistry, rains etc.

So last night I purchased Ca sulfate, as I didn’t have any on hand and plan to raise Ca and Mg (have MgSO4) slowly over the next few water changes... thinking I’ll add 5PPM of Ca and 2 PPMs of Mg now and next water change and see what happens to plants.


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Water change today, so overall I ended up dosing 6PPM Ca and 2PPM Mg x2, with a 50% water change, tank should have increased by 9 and 3 respectively.

Ca now testing at least somewhere between 20-40, purple on the first drop blue on the 2nd.

I think I will keep it here from now on and will be dosing about 3-6 PPM Ca and 2-3 PPM of Mg after each water change.

I was also playing around with lighting today.

I have a 24” sun blaster t5ho and I placed it over the tank with a 420 actinic bulb in between 2 Finnex fixtures. Gives it a crisper look, and balances out the yellow appearance it had.










Next up a cheap grow LED fixture, wish I can keep this on the tank, only problem is it pushes over 200 PAR and it needs more blue/purple/white light.










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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Nice update, looking good! What is the cheap LED exactly? I have a 20L that needs something better and those colors look pretty good


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

burr740 said:


> Nice update, looking good! What is the cheap LED exactly? I have a 20L that needs something better and those colors look pretty good




It’s a venesun 100W, you can find it on Amazon. It’s puts out a very neon red light and it’s not dimmable... on my 20L I measured over 200 PAR on its own even though it doesn’t look very bright. It’s kinda balanced by the 7k white LEDs coming from 2 finnex planted+ so it doesn’t look it in the pics above.


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

vvDO said:


> It’s a venesun 100W, you can find it on Amazon. It’s puts out a very neon red light and it’s not dimmable... on my 20L I measured over 200 PAR on its own even though it doesn’t look very bright. It’s kinda balanced by the 7k white LEDs coming from 2 finnex planted+ so it doesn’t look it in the pics above.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ah I see, I thought it was just the one light by itself looking like that.


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

A few more observations, I believe along the lines of my water softening.


This unknown Erio started growing a bit differently that it had been. Main difference broader leaves and creating more of a crown rather than looking somewhat like hair grass or blyxa. I guess they do like softer water.










Meanwhile... let’s do the twist... almost all Ludwigias with twisted leaves, most obvious in this glandulosa...











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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Water change day today... tested tap and still 0-20 Ca, so will continue to dose Ca.

Twisting leaves have not improved much since adding Ca and Mg. Tested nitrates yesterday, barely read 10-20 using API therefore I dosed a 3 PPM of extra KNO3 last night and also right after water change.

Some pics about an hour after lights on.




























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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

No major changes, major issues right now are GSA on old growth. I’ve adjusted down my Ca and Mg dosing, will measure soon. Should be down to 30:12. 

Trying a new light added some 660’s LED, definitely an improvement in colors. Also pearling was crazy just minutes after I added the light.


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Duplicate post

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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Bot that light made a big difference, looks good both ways


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Wow the tank is looking great!

Love the colors with the new light.

Very well done and getting better all the time.

Nice work!!


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Greggz said:


> Wow the tank is looking great!
> 
> 
> 
> ...






burr740 said:


> Bot that light made a big difference, looks good both ways




Any ideas on GSA?

Phosphate measured at 5ppm before water change. 

Dosing 3x per week:
KNO3 4 ppm
K2PO4 2 ppm 
Alternating with micros 3x per week, very close to Joe’s last post, just with about 40% more B (measuring error).

CA tested 35 ppm
Mg calculated 13.5 ppm

W/C weekly 60%
Clean my canister every 2 weeks.

My other tank only difference is larger 40g, has lower light levels and it’s a dirted tank, though the dirt is more than 2 years old and I’ve removed quite a bit of it just through siphoning, when I moved and had to remove substrate to move the tank, and from removing massive amounts of crypts. Fish stocking is much higher in the larger tank.

Dosing levels and maintenance are exactly the same. Both CO2 systems are on pH controllers.




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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Not really sure on the GSA. Its almost certainly fert related though, an imbalance somewhere. Most likely macros but I'd still fix that B overdose soon. Something has the plants a little unhappy, even if you can tell it, and it could very well be that extra B. There's fine line between just right and too much where B is concerned

Everything looks pretty good to on paper to me except NO3 is kinda low compared to other stuff. Maybe try 5 ppm doses, that'd be 15/week vs 12.

Raising PO4 might make it go away even though it looks like there's plenty. But if you try that I'd raise NO3 first or at the same time because you're already dosing 2:1 NO3O4, not that a certain ratio is critical but you do want to stay in a favorable range


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Could be many things.

You said the dosing is the same in both tanks but light levels are higher. Could be that extra light is driving the need for more ferts, and is creating more plant mass than the other. More plant mass generally means need for more ferts.

Your N:K dosing is 12:6:10 per week. But at 60% water change, it's the same as someone dosing 10:5:8 at 50% water change. so your max accumulations are 20:10:16 in the water column. In my tank, which also has loads of stems and driven hard by light, that would be on the light side for N & K and old growth might suffer. I would bump each up a bit and get K to at least to the N level or higher.

What is the pH drop from CO2 injection?

And how bad is it? A little GSA on old growth, especially on plants that might be shaded or crowded, is not that big of a deal. I see it sometimes when I let the plant mass get out of control. Trim things up and reduce crowding/mass and it goes away.

Do you know how much PAR you have at the substrate? Sometimes just a tweaking of light can have an effect as well.

But really, all in all I would say things look pretty darn good, so I wouldn't change anything too quickly.


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

burr740 said:


> Not really sure on the GSA. Its almost certainly fert related though, an imbalance somewhere. Most likely macros but I'd still fix that B overdose soon. Something has the plants a little unhappy, even if you can tell it, and it could very well be that extra B. There's fine line between just right and too much where B is concerned
> 
> Everything looks pretty good to on paper to me except NO3 is kinda low compared to other stuff. Maybe try 5 ppm doses, that'd be 15/week vs 12.
> 
> Raising PO4 might make it go away even though it looks like there's plenty. But if you try that I'd raise NO3 first or at the same time because you're already dosing 2:1 NO3O4, not that a certain ratio is critical but you do want to stay in a favorable range






Greggz said:


> Could be many things.
> 
> You said the dosing is the same in both tanks but light levels are higher. Could be that extra light is driving the need for more ferts, and is creating more plant mass than the other. More plant mass generally means need for more ferts.
> 
> ...




Thanks for the input. I will try more N and more K, and thinking will keep P where it is for now then increase later depending on how things go. 

This was all happening before I added the new lights, before this my PAR levels were in the range of 90-100 ~1-2” off substrate directly under the light. I had added a blue 420 t5HO 24” single bulb which would have increase par by maybe 20-30, 40 at most. This added bulb is now gone.

Ph drop is a 7 to 5.95.




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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

vvDO said:


> Ph drop is a 7 to 5.95.


At 100+ PAR you are also increasing need for CO2. The higher the light, the more you need to get CO2 fine tuned.

I'd slowly increase that drop while keeping an eye on both plants and fish. FWIW my peak drop is 1.35 from degassed, and I know lots of other folks who have similar drop.


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

vvDO said:


> Water change today, so overall I ended up dosing 6PPM Ca and 2PPM Mg x2, with a 50% water change, tank should have increased by 9 and 3 respectively.
> 
> Ca now testing at least somewhere between 20-40, purple on the first drop blue on the 2nd.



Just an FYI. Assuming you are using the API Calcium test, you can get a much more accurate reading by adjusting a few parameters...
Collect 20ml of water instead of 5
Add 5 drops of solution 1 to the 20ml, then give it a good stir.
Each drop of solution 2 now equals 5ppm calcium. 

Having the clear container sitting on a white paper towel helps to see the color change from pink (light purple?) to blue.


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Greggz said:


> At 100+ PAR you are also increasing need for CO2. The higher the light, the more you need to get CO2 fine tuned.
> 
> 
> 
> I'd slowly increase that drop while keeping an eye on both plants and fish. FWIW my peak drop is 1.35 from degassed, and I know lots of other folks who have similar drop.



I tried going higher, my first thought was not enough CO2, though fish were acting weird when I went higher. I can always try again after I give them some time to adjust.



Immortal1 said:


> Just an FYI. Assuming you are using the API Calcium test, you can get a much more accurate reading by adjusting a few parameters...
> Collect 20ml of water instead of 5
> Add 5 drops of solution 1 to the 20ml, then give it a good stir.
> Each drop of solution 2 now equals 5ppm calcium.
> ...



That’s how I tested. Read a post by @Edward and @Grobbins48 a couple of years ago and learned that trick!


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Looking really good! Colors are popping and growth looks healthy! Well done!


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Just checked PAR... it’s now more like 180 with the current setup.

Finnex planted plus LED strips alone about 130.

The 460 nm bulb I removed gave me about 40 PAR alone. I had placed that between 2 Finnex.

The new strips alone give about 100 PAR.

All measured about 11-12 inches from the light.




Grobbins48 said:


> Looking really good! Colors are popping and growth looks healthy! Well done!



Thanks!



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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

vvDO said:


> Just checked PAR... it’s now more like 180 with the current setup.


Oh my........that is a LOT of PAR. 

My tank can't withstand that PAR for long without algae creeping up.

I'd dial it down....but who knows, maybe you can get away with it??


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Greggz said:


> Oh my........that is a LOT of PAR.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I had 250+ in the near past using a SB reef light and I had issues at the time, which I believe was due to seasonal changes in my tap water and also wasn’t as consistent with dosing. I guess we’ll see what happens. I am already trying to figure out how to raise the lights, will probably cut some acrylic strips and use them as risers, will probably aim for 120-130 range.


When I had aquasoil even old 5 year old soul, never had a problem growing Ammannia pedicillata. Since I started BDBS, it’s been the most unhappy plant in my tank. I stole a something out of @Maryland Guppy playbook... though a clear cup so my phish can get a headache [emoji856]. I also added a few osmocote+ since it’s old aquasoil.









When I pulled up the wretched stems, I could not believe the roots... if only the rest of the plant would grow so well...









Here’s a full tank shot today after water change...
The first I took with another camera app using my iPhone, the second with the regular iPhone camera app.

















I may have to get rid of those crypt spiralis red at the back left side... too unruly for such a short tank.

Tap TDS is unchanged at 30, so still dosing Ca and Mg. I tested about 3 hours after water change when I dosed. Ca is now 30 and Mg calculated at 8. I dry dosed 2 ppm of Mg. I also dosed 2 ppm of K. 6 ppm NO3 (from KNO3) and 2.5 ppm PO4 (from KH2PO4).

Need to find time to redo my micro mix.


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

I’ve sold off a massive crypt spiralis red from the back left side, was about 4-5 large plants all clumped together.

I’ve increased my dosing and also increased injection rate of CO2 to make sure I get good levels close to the start of my photo period. Rechecked my off gassed pH and noted I have a 1.2 pH drop.

I’ve lowered Ca to 30 ppm Mg 15. I’m also dosing 2 ppm of K with each water change from K2SO4.

Overall looking OK, I still have GSA on plants, mostly on lower/older leaves. Next trim I hope to get rid of it all. It’s also been 2 weeks since I have scraped the glass because of GSA so today I wiped the outside clean in hopes of getting a clear photo. I thought I had turned off my other tanks lights but I think I missed one so there’s some glare.

I’ve also never been able to from rotala Vietnam so well, you can see a few stems dead center.

Still no luck with A. pedicellata.












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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

The tank is so beautiful!!


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Discusluv said:


> The tank is so beautiful!!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro




Thank you!!


Here’s my 40B. Until Wed this had a 6x 24w t5HO fixture. One bulb had burned out multiple times due to a bad ballast. I was thinking of replacing the ballast and knew I wouldn’t be able to do so very quickly. Plants at the foreground where the bulb sits weren’t getting enough light even though I moved the fixture. I used to have 2 pendant style LED lights (Aquatic life halo) over this tank before I went T5, so I dug those out of storage and set them up along with a grow led light I had previously tested on the 20L. My biggest issue with the prior LEDs was coverage, even with 120 degree lenses, the plants all grew towards either light, and when I raised them and turned the lights up to get more even coverage, had other issues as well. Much of this could have been my dosing. That’s the main reason I added the strip, plus it could use a bunch more red. Today, just 2 days later, I’m so surprised by how much the plants have colored up. Normally I would not get this amount of color until plants trashed about 3/4 to the top.

PAR was about 150 center tank, with Halos at 50%, then I turned it down slightly, probably closer to 130 measured about 2” from substrate. With all 6 bulbs of T5, I got about 80.

Tank is also finally pearling!

Plant species numbering at least 30 in this underwater jungle.











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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Not working today so had some time with a digital SLR and took some bow pics.




















































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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Nice Rainbow pics!!!

What is the top red one??


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Second Gregg's comments - nice bow pics! Suppose if one has to stay home, what better time to practice those things which you usually don't have tome to practice on


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Greggz said:


> Nice Rainbow pics!!!
> 
> 
> 
> What is the top red one??



Gregg, thanks and no clue, these came from a LFS, no ID, “assorted rainbows.” 



Immortal1 said:


> Second Gregg's comments - nice bow pics! Suppose if one has to stay home, what better time to practice those things which you usually don't have tome to practice on



Thanks and it was much easier than using a phone. The distance helps, every time I approach the tank with my phone, they think it’s feeding time.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

vvDO said:


> Gregg, thanks and no clue, these came from a LFS, no ID, “assorted rainbows.”


Yeah I thought it might not be labeled. Does not look like anything I have seen before (and I have seen a LOT!).

Most likely a hybrid.....but a very good looking hybrid!


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Greggz said:


> Yeah I thought it might not be labeled. Does not look like anything I have seen before (and I have seen a LOT!).
> 
> Most likely a hybrid.....but a very good looking hybrid!












Same fish, 6/2018.


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

More pics from yesterday...




















































































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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

vvDO said:


> More pics from yesterday...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I went through your links to look at your tanks! These fish are beautiful! Wow! 



Need some updated ones- and, maybe, a shot of the tank. It looks like you have some amazing growth on these plants.


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