# Trying To Get Over That Final Hurdle



## Mister Pig (Jan 11, 2022)

So the plants in the tank are growing well, the fish and shrimp are fat and happy. I just finished a water change tonight, truth is it's been three weeks since I did one. 

I have left the tank alone and plants are growing strongly...it's just the algae on leaves I am struggling with. I figured if the plants consumed enough nutrients then the algae would get choked out. Not working that way. 

Light is on 10 hours a day and I am cutting them back to 8 hours tommorow. Blues and pink is at 15% respectively. CO2 is fed via CO2 mixer and PH meter set for 5.8 ph. 

Here are pics of the size of plants, I need to cut and replant the Bacopa Salzmannii as it is reaching the surface. Hard to believe when I planted it in January it melted and shrunk to about an inch tall. The Ammannia Pedicellata has filled in nicely too.

I just need to solve this algae issue. I see someone has algae treatment, and I think about trying it. But it's not cheap and I wonder if there are any drawbacks. Can't find a link at the moment. Also see that Twinstar has an electrostatic inhibitor disc that is supposed to be quite effective. Anyone use one? 

Here are pics of my tank...and some closeups of leaves. Got to get this under control.


----------



## itsdirk (Dec 16, 2021)

I would go down to 6.


----------



## Marc_G (Jul 6, 2012)

Add a few small Siamese Algae Eaters. I've just added six to my 90 Gallon tank and already I notice a difference in algae after just a few days.


----------



## ThreadFin (8 mo ago)

Excel?


----------



## NanoNoodle (9 mo ago)

Mister Pig said:


> Also see that Twinstar has an electrostatic inhibitor disc that is supposed to be quite effective. Anyone use one?


I installed a Twinstar algae inhibitor a little over 2 weeks ago. I feel it helps slow down algae growth, but I think the oto catfish in my tank do most of the work.

I have 14 gallon tank with no livestock that gets overrun by hair algae. I tried Excel, it worked a little, but what really put a dent in the algae was a solid dose of hydrogen peroxide. Again, I have no livestock in that tank, but it's something to think about.


----------



## minorhero (Mar 28, 2019)

Mister Pig said:


> So the plants in the tank are growing well, the fish and shrimp are fat and happy. I just finished a water change tonight, truth is it's been three weeks since I did one.
> 
> I have left the tank alone and plants are growing strongly...it's just the algae on leaves I am struggling with. I figured if the plants consumed enough nutrients then the algae would get choked out. Not working that way.
> 
> ...


What is your water change schedule (how often, how much), and what fertilizer are you using and how much?


----------



## Mister Pig (Jan 11, 2022)

I moved light setting down to 8 hours. Ordered a Twinstar II Nano+ this morning. Consider it more of a long term maintenance tool once I get things under control.


minorhero said:


> What is your water change schedule (how often, how much), and what fertilizer are you using and how much?


Water changes are typically done every weekend, at 75%. Now I have missed the last two weekends due to things that absolutely needed to get done around the house, one weekend was the 4th ya know. So I had missed two prior to those photos. Those pics were done after the last water change.

The tank was initially put together with just Ecocomplete, but I was not happy with the results. I ended up redoing the base with about 20 pounds of Contrasoil and then capped with Ecocomplete. This is a 38G tank. Since its fairly new soil I do not fertilize heavily. I use Thrive Root Tabs root tabs on hand and have done two series of it after the Contrasoil went in. I do not dose a liquid fertilizer although I have Easy Green on hand.

CO2 is targeted at 5.7 PH, the degassed tank water tests at 6.7PH, and what I get from the city is 7.2 PH. CO2 system runs off a Milwaukee PH controller and its checked once a month.
% ad
Lighting is with a Fluval 22 watt planted light fixture. Cold and pure white are at 85% and warm white is 80%. Pink is 35% and Blue is 10%.

Filtration is a Magnum C220 and I also use a hang on the back for a bit of mechanical filtration and gas exchange. the cannister has a lily pipe on output and a surface two tier intake with surface skimmer. CO2 goes through a GLA reactor. Heating is a Hyyger titanium external control heater.

Eh thats the tank. Wish it could be bigger as it seems that stability is easier to reach with more volume to work with. But its what I got room for and not going to change anytime soon.


----------



## Eric Tran (Jul 7, 2016)

How many root tabs did you use? The short hair algae on the leaves reminds me exactly of a time I used too many root tabs while everything else remained constant. It may be that too many nutrients are leaching into the water column from the tabs. Fully testing nitrates, ammonia, phosphorous, etc will give you an idea. My readings were through the roof something like 90 ppm nitrates, and required many water changes over a month before i got them back to normal levels. If there are no fish in the tank you can safely full dose algae fix to kill all these short hair algae fast. But you will still need water changes to get the levels under control.


----------



## Mister Pig (Jan 11, 2022)

Eric Tran said:


> How many root tabs did you use? The short hair algae on the leaves reminds me exactly of a time I used too many root tabs while everything else remained constant. It may be that too many nutrients are leaching into the water column from the tabs. Fully testing nitrates, ammonia, phosphorous, etc will give you an idea. My readings were through the roof something like 90 ppm nitrates, and required many water changes over a month before i got them back to normal levels. If there are no fish in the tank you can safely full dose algae fix to kill all these short hair algae fast. But you will still need water changes to get the levels under control.


Oh lets see, I probably used about 6 of them around the Amazon swords, I probably had 3 each around the Alternanthera Reineckii and 2 around the Ammannia Pedicellata. The last time I have put them in the tank would be in May. As I say water changes are done once a week at 75%, although I have missed the last couple of weeks and this is when it got worse in the tank. Before it was there but nowhere as prevalent. 

Light is cut back to 8 hours, the Nano+ is shipped, water changes will be back on schedule. Apparently the fish are doing well, the albino bristlenose pleco in the tank must be getting to be over 5 inches. The rummy nose tetra all look fat and happy and I only feed once every other day. Plants are growing well, I got to trim that Bacopa Salzmannii and while its supposed to be a mid level plant, it sure seems like it needs to be in the back of the tank, and I really don't have room for it. Either that or I move the Alternanthera Reineckii to the front and keep it cut short. Everything seems to be growing well, it feels like I am almost there.


----------



## Fake_Buce777 (May 21, 2021)

Mister Pig said:


> I moved light setting down to 8 hours. Ordered a Twinstar II Nano+ this morning. Consider it more of a long term maintenance tool once I get things under control.
> 
> 
> Water changes are typically done every weekend, at 75%. Now I have missed the last two weekends due to things that absolutely needed to get done around the house, one weekend was the 4th ya know. So I had missed two prior to those photos. Those pics were done after the last water change.
> ...


Ecocomplete will do squat for the plants all by itslef. It is permeable, thus pellets work well in it, but they also leach out into the water column. I think that is what you see as result. one unwritten rule I have: if I want nice plants, I cannot cheap out on substrate. So Contrasoil will help the plants, but it also leaches minerals initially and depletes some others. So frequent water changes and liquid ferts will be needed, especially phosphates at firs. that is your tricky part: not to overdo the phosphates, as You may be looking at another algal bloom. Start low, go up. Light reduction you mentioned earlier will work. Getting things balanced is a job. Good luck.


----------



## Eric Tran (Jul 7, 2016)

Try cutting light down more. 5-6 hours max when you have algae problems.


----------



## Mister Pig (Jan 11, 2022)

Just one more question if you all do not mind. I can get the Twinstar piece installed, it arrived today. However they want all algae removed from the tank before install. I certainly can clean all the glass and take care of that. 

Should I pull the plants and do a bleach or hydroen peroxide dip? One thing I noticed in the past with the swords is that if I do this the short hair algae will turn a light brown or even possibly closer to an off white, but it never really leaves or falls off the leaves. 

If I do the dip, and keep lighting down to 6 to 8 hours, along with the use of the Nano+ and regular water changes. Will the algae fall off the leaves, or do I have to wait for new growth and then cut off the old leaves?


----------



## NanoNoodle (9 mo ago)

Mister Pig said:


> However they want all algae removed from the tank before install.


I never realized this. I just dropped it in under the lily pipe and turned it on. I didn't have much algae though since it was a new tank.

Whenever I do an H2O2 treatment, I scrub the algae off the next day.


----------



## itsdirk (Dec 16, 2021)

“Please remove algae.”
.
.

“Look, it removed all your algae!”


----------



## Fake_Buce777 (May 21, 2021)

Mister Pig said:


> Just one more question if you all do not mind. I can get the Twinstar piece installed, it arrived today. However they want all algae removed from the tank before install. I certainly can clean all the glass and take care of that.
> 
> Should I pull the plants and do a bleach or hydroen peroxide dip? One thing I noticed in the past with the swords is that if I do this the short hair algae will turn a light brown or even possibly closer to an off white, but it never really leaves or falls off the leaves.
> 
> If I do the dip, and keep lighting down to 6 to 8 hours, along with the use of the Nano+ and regular water changes. Will the algae fall off the leaves, or do I have to wait for new growth and then cut off the old leaves?


I just cut the most grown over leaves off. Unless it is a full plant that is covered. a peroxide dip, when successful, kills enough not to have more spors out.


----------



## bonniemathewsporter (6 mo ago)

Do you have any snails in there? I have pink ramshorn snails (don't overfeed or they will reproduce quickly) but you can get other kinds of snails. My snails keep the algae in check. Good luck! Lovely tank!


----------



## Herbibore (Aug 1, 2021)

Needs way more plants! (I would say that, of course, lol). No, really. Make it a jungle. S. Repens as a carpet would be a good start (I have great luck with tissue culture on those).

I'd drastically cut the stem plants and replant the cuttings nearby to make a "stand" instead of a single plant like the one in the middle (looks like bacopa to me, but a lot of plants look alike).

Floating plants are another option to reduce light. I like red floaters myself, salvinia and frogbit not only grow too fast (but that might take out some over-ferts!), they have long roots which
I constantly have to trim.

Amano shrimp are another consideration. I'd personally not go the hydrogen peroxide route, but that's just me.


----------



## Savannaqua (Jan 1, 2022)

My bet's on the more plants and less light strategy, (maybe ramping the light down and up so you still get to see the inhabitants?) I upgraded a light recently and immediately the algae on some plants increased a little without any photoperiod change. Luckily I could swivel one part of the light off the offending plants to get a bit of balance back.
I shudder at the thought of introducing snails where you have none. If you have unbalanced ferts and algae you could end up with an unbalanced snail population too!
And that is a fair number of root tablets: I guess water changes are the go there, and maybe cutting down on the liquid fert until things settle down. 
Why add chemicals when you could try some simpler things first? Add some Siamese Algae-eaters! I don't know them but they seem to have a fairly happy fan-base among aquarists.


----------



## Mister Pig (Jan 11, 2022)

Thought I would give a bit of an update. Last week the Twinstar II Nano+ arrived, and I put it in the tank as things sit. I set it for the highest setting, which is actually for a larger tank than I have and let it go. I didn't have time to do a water change and scrub the tank down for residual algae. But you know what, it stopped things dead in its track and the algae on walls was slowly receding over the week. I had to leave town on the weekend and could not do a water change, so it went another week. Same results water was crystal clear, and algae was slowly diminishing, but not fast enough. 

Today was the first time I had to do any work. So I prepped for my water change and scrubbed the back and side of the tank, the front was perfectly clean. I then did a 85% water change, and when I got to the end of it I pulled the plants at this time. I did a bleach dip for 10 minutes on all the plants, then soaked them in water with de-chlorinator and finally did a rinse before replanting. Decided to make some changes in placement as long as I had things apart. 

Filled everything back up, and turned on the pumps. The swords look a bit ragged, the remaining algae on leaves is a pale tan color, so it looks like it has been killed. Now it is a matter of letting things heal back up and the algae deteriorate like it should. The Nano+ should keep the water column clean, and things should find an equilibrium. 

Once things settled down I am going to prune the Bacopa Salzmannii and replant my cuttings. I plan on using it on the back wall. We will see how this all goes, but I think this will come around. In the past I have tried an in tank UV sterilizer, The Green Killing Machine and it seems to do a similar job, but not as effective. Also its so bulky in comparison, it takes up a ton of room in a 36 gallon tank. Finally its a pain in the butt to start after a water change, the pump tends to lock. This set up is far better, and not a lot more money. 

Well time will tell, but I have high hopes.

































Well it's certainly rough on the plants, here are how things look. Let's see if they can bounce back.


----------



## Interpolean (6 mo ago)

Any update a month later? I am curious how the treatment went!


----------



## Mister Pig (Jan 11, 2022)

So I installed the Nano+ and gave the plants a strong bleach dip, and I had them in for quite some time. The results are mixed. I lost the Ammannia Pedicellata, it just turned gray and then dissolved. The Bacopa Salzmannii lost almost all of its lower leaves, but has growth at the top, I will have to cut it and replant. Shame to lose the roots. The Alternanthera Reineckii bounced back better, the lower leaves are missing or looking rough, so I should cut it and see if I can replant as they look pretty healthy and algae free. The trouble I have always had with this plant is it tends to want to grow aerial roots. I don't know if I am not getting the cutting deep enough into the ecosoil that it wants to pull nutrients from the water column. Hopefully I can solve this on the next go around. Finally, the swords looked really rough and I lost almost all the existing growth, but new leaves are emerging and filling in. So they should be ok. No issues with fish.

In terms of algae, the Nano+ is doing the job. Have no problems with continued growth. There is remaining algae on the major rocks, so I should pull them and either dip or scrub. Haven't decided what the best solution is. But still on a weekly water change cycle, and no algae issues. Lighting is 8 hours a day, fed every other day once a day. I almost wonder if there is something with the city water supply, a residual phosphate or something along those lines. But the Nano works, although I wish they would have made the thing out of a clear plastic than that white stuff, so it would blend in better.

The plan is to buy one last plant order. Unfortunately where I have bought from in the past does not show any Ammannia Pedicellata. I am conflicted about the Bacopa Salzmannii, as I do not care for its appearance that much. But now that things are stabilized and seeming to go well, I think this order should be it and the tank stabilized.


----------



## Interpolean (6 mo ago)

Thanks for the reply. My AR currently looks likes yours did before treatment, so I am debating dipping them. Mine also grow aerial roots, which quickly get covered in algae. 

I am cleaning the tank every other day at this point, and it is getting old. Desperation is sinking in and I am thinking about the Nano+, though I have tried to stay away from "treatments" to the water column. Also more $$ thrown into the tank is doable, but man this is getting expensive.


----------



## Mister Pig (Jan 11, 2022)

Interpolean said:


> Thanks for the reply. My AR currently looks likes yours did before treatment, so I am debating dipping them. Mine also grow aerial roots, which quickly get covered in algae.
> 
> I am cleaning the tank every other day at this point, and it is getting old. Desperation is sinking in and I am thinking about the Nano+, though I have tried to stay away from "treatments" to the water column. Also more $$ thrown into the tank is doable, but man this is getting expensive.


Well the Nano+ does control algae like they say it does. You do have to clean out the tank and get as much algae off surfaces as you can. Its not like it destroys existing algae but it stops it from propagating. I use th e Nano+ on the second setting for a 36 gallon tank. 

As far as how aggressively to dip the AR, I used 10 minutes and that may have been a bit much. I would adjust time downwards. As far as the aerial roots, I don't have a good answer. This time I trim them I am going to leave more stalk exposed and stripped of leaves, and then plant it deeper so it gets through my gravel cap and into the plant soil. When I dipped the algae turned white, and the leaves faded. Quite a few fell off, but the plant bounced back and the new growth is algae free. 

Hope this helps some.


----------



## Interpolean (6 mo ago)

Just did a big cleaning last night and the algae is just clinging tight to the AR. My Ludwigia repens, Staurogyne repens, and Echinodorus Hadi have some algae, but it is minimal in comparison. They also respond well to my regular cleanings, unlike the AR. 

I'll probably dip the AR sometime soon since it is such a glaring difference from the rest of the tank. If it dies, I'll just replace it with something else. It'd be a bummer because I love the look of AR.


----------

