# 90 Gallon Altum tank



## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Thought that I'd move this here instead of the general forum. Here's an updated picture of the tank; need to do some trimming and rearranging sometime this week.









Still not fully awake yet, so they're still schooling, instead of pushing each other around :icon_roll :


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## bellisb925 (Jul 3, 2004)

Beautiful Altums. What is your plan with them. Like when they start pairing off. Is the tank big enough for each pair to have their own space or will you have to eventually move some of them? 

Also, how has your experience been with wild fish, ie de-worming, acclimation, etc.?


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Planning on adding four more to the group and eventually grow all 10 of them out. As they age a bit more, I'm gonna try my hand at breeding them. They're actually at a decent size right now, the largest one being 3" long and 6" tall. I've bred P. scalare before at that size, but altums are a bit more finicky. 

The tank is a bit small for the group, but they find enough refuge in the plants from each other. They still haven't paired up yet, although the two that usually hang in the front of the tank are starting to leave each other alone. As they pair up, I'll separate them and perhaps set up individual breeding tanks (still too early to tell).

Gonna have to pick up a couple more 10,000K bulbs soon and see how they work for pics, or turn off the 6,700k...they're coming out very green-yellow.

Wild fish haven't troubled me much. I didn't bring these altums in myself and another person did. I picked them up a month later and most of them had regrown their full finnage. I just went through and dewormed them to make sure, but other than that not much else. They've come down with ick before, but I just leave them alone and let their immune systems fight it off. Usually, wild fish are vulnerable when they're first introduced, but once they're acclimated, they generally more hardy than commercial bred ones.

I've shipped in other wild fish before in the past (green neons being the last fish), and they're placed in quarantine tanks. The batch of neons had two DOAs, but they were refunded and the rest placed in quarantine. While in quarantine, they're dewormed and treated for other ailments (fungus, ich, etc.). After two weeks, they're added to the main tank and basically left to fend for themselves (usually no medication is added, unless a sizable of the population is affected).


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## rayhwong (Aug 6, 2004)

Wow those altums are looking good eric! I remember when they first came in. They were pretty tough still but developed fin rot. Some furan 2 cleaned them up quickly. Good luck with breeding!


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## gw11ucb (Jan 3, 2004)

wow! awesome looking fish there Eric! roud: Where did you get them :icon_bigg hehehe.. they are so big now! can't wait for you to add 4 more. 10 altums schooling together would be awesome. ehehehe.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Thanks, guys. Yeah, it's gonna be interesting to see some more of them together. The picture was taken last night and they were starting to wake up, otherwise, they don't school as close as that.


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## Urkevitz (Jan 12, 2004)

Looking into the tank it looks like it goes on forever, the background really adds the effect.


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

Looks good, the altums blend in with the tank!


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## skylsdale (Aug 26, 2003)

> Looking into the tank it looks like it goes on forever...


White walls for backgrounds are highly underrated, IMO.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Haha...yeah, white wall is in, when it's actually white. The 1/2" glass really gives off a greenish tint to the pictures, and it gets worse since it eventually has to penetrate the other 1/2" on the other side...never had this problem before, but that was with either acrylic tanks or in glass tanks w/thinner glass.

Anyways, had to put a big chunk of driftwood in w/java ferns attached. Got it this weekend from Dan and it's been sitting outside of the tank in an empty bucket. Figure that I had to get it in the tank before it wilts any further. Here's the massive chunk added to the tank. Also trimmed some of the plants down.


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## dewcew (Aug 3, 2004)

Eric,

I am glad you found a place for the driftwood and Java Fern. Your tank looks great! I can't wait until I can set mine up again. It will probably be about a month if all goes well. Thanks for helping with all the fish. I am sure they found a happy home.


Dan


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Hey, Dan. Glad to see that you are still abouts on the board, even among the moving. The piece of driftwood and java was just too good to pass up and definitely works in the setup; thanks, once again. roud: 

I'll be redoing the tank sometime soon to open more of it up and will use that as a centerpiece. Let me know once you're settled and have started that tank up.


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## hixy (Dec 7, 2003)

beautiful tank.very natural


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## Thanks (Oct 9, 2004)

great tank, the marselia has really taken off. I love those altums! How big will they become in the end? Too big for a pair to be in a 35 gallon?


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## Lorenceo (Jan 29, 2004)

Man thats nice!  

Good going Eric!


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Ditto on the beautiful tank! Just found this thread, and the previous when you launched this 3' 90. Really fun thread to read. Where did you get the Altums?


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Thanks said:


> great tank, the marselia has really taken off. I love those altums! How big will they become in the end? Too big for a pair to be in a 35 gallon?


Thanks for the comments, guys and gals. They get taller than regular P. scalares. About 14" tall and around 7" long. A 35 gallon would be kind of tight for a pair of them. Also keep in mind that these guys are pretty vicious towards each other, especially when establishing themselves, so it's better to get a group of them and let them pair off. 



Betowess said:


> Where did you get the Altums?


They were originally gw11ucb's fish, but he's been slowly getting rid of them and eventually ended up in my tank.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Redid the tank last night. Ended up pulling all the larger sags and simplifying the layout a bit. Here's the new tank look.










Middle to right side of tank:









Male gardneri cruising around:









King of the pack of altums. He's getting some very nice green sheen on his body.









Next series of pictures are schooling behavior in rummies (someone asked for these awhile back in another post).

Lead heading left.









Then school heads back right.









Finally, group comes back together and makes a dash to the left.


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## gw11ucb (Jan 3, 2004)

I MISS MY ALTUMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11 



NICE looking tank Eric!


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## Blade (Jul 27, 2004)

You are my hero.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

gw11ucb said:


> I MISS MY ALTUMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
> 
> 
> 
> NICE looking tank Eric!


Haha, thanks Boun. They're starting to take off in growth and are starting to color up nicely. I was even able to sex one of them as being a male. Also, I think they're starting to go through puberty or something. The dominant altum keeps on displaying to another and the other one isn't backing down. They keep on flaring their fins at each other and circling.

Oh yeah, here's the largest of the group. It's so much larger than the rest, it's not even funny. :hihi:


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Blade said:


> You are my hero.


Dunno why I'd be, but thanks.


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## e.lark (Feb 2, 2005)

fantastic shots and again beautiful tank.
Do you do anything to your lights to get those crisp shots or is that the everyday light?


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## Blade (Jul 27, 2004)

Ibn said:


> Dunno why I'd be, but thanks.


I am setting up a 125 right now which will be an Altum tank. If it looks any where close to as good as yours I will be very happy.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

e.lark said:


> fantastic shots and again beautiful tank.
> Do you do anything to your lights to get those crisp shots or is that the everyday light?


Nope, that's the way it's light for twelve hours every day (384 watts). They were all taken in a dark room without the flash. Other than the full tank shot, the rest were taken by my bro. I just set up the camera (shooting at f5 with shutter speed of 1/100) and he just snapped away.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Blade said:


> I am setting up a 125 right now which will be an Altum tank. If it looks any where close to as good as yours I will be very happy.


Ah, I see. Not much into laying out the tank myself, and am still in the collectoritis mode. I'm sure that your tank will turn out nicely. All the tanks with altums in them have turn out really nice (take a look at Sn8ke's and Ted's tanks).


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## shalu (Jan 16, 2003)

Beautiful tank, eric. Pics are crystal clear, but the color balance is off, green plants are not green.


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## dewcew (Aug 3, 2004)

Eric,

The tank looks great. I am glad that all the Java Fern found a happy home. Keep up the great work.

Dan


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## BSS (Sep 24, 2004)

I really like the new layout. That java fern driftwood worked out great. I love the dark contrast it provides against the altums. Good stuff!


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## unirdna (Jan 22, 2004)

I've never liked 'high' tanks (most of my tanks have an "L" after the gallon number ), but this one has me changing my mind - really, it does. That huge, open-water, crystal-clear section to the right creates a look that is incredibly natural. It really looks like a slice out of the wild - perfect for an altum tank.

I'm saving this photo to my "folder of enviable tanks".


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

shalu said:


> Beautiful tank, eric. Pics are crystal clear, but the color balance is off, green plants are not green.


Yeah, I had to underexpose the pictures otherwise, the top part of it gets blown (problem with taking pictures of planted tanks). I'll play around with the saturation and see how they come out next time.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

dewcew said:


> Eric,
> 
> The tank looks great. I am glad that all the Java Fern found a happy home. Keep up the great work.
> 
> Dan


Thanks, Dan. Using your java fern to anchor the left side of the layout.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

BSS said:


> I really like the new layout. That java fern driftwood worked out great. I love the dark contrast it provides against the altums. Good stuff!


Thanks. I really like the way that the driftwood/java fern myself. I wasn't really into the combo, until I saw Dan's. I knew that it would look great given a deeper tank.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

unirdna said:


> I've never liked 'high' tanks (most of my tanks have an "L" after the gallon number ), but this one has me changing my mind - really, it does. That huge, open-water, crystal-clear section to the right creates a look that is incredibly natural. It really looks like a slice out of the wild - perfect for an altum tank.
> 
> I'm saving this photo to my "folder of enviable tanks".


Neither did I in the past. I've always advocated shallower tanks for ease of planting and lighting, but this tank totally goes against that. It's kind of refreshing though having that much depth and height to play around with. I've seen both discus and angels in shallower tanks and the look is different (not in a bad way, but I prefer the way they look in mine  ).

Haha, thanks for the look.


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## Jung (Mar 16, 2005)

Gorgeous tank, and great choice of fish! How many rummies are there?


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## shalu (Jan 16, 2003)

I always dreaded a tall tank for the same reason. But I am finding that my regular 100gallon tank is not tall enough to really show off adult discus. The proportion just isn't right. I am dreaming about my next tank, a 400gallon 30" tall tank.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Jung said:


> Gorgeous tank, and great choice of fish! How many rummies are there?


Thanks! There's a pack of 18 rummies in there. The females are constantly herded into the plants by the persistent males and do their little dance.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

shalu said:


> I always dreaded a tall tank for the same reason. But I am finding that my regular 100gallon tank is not tall enough to really show off adult discus. The proportion just isn't right. I am dreaming about my next tank, a 400gallon 30" tall tank.


Yeah, the standard tanks are a bit too long, short, and narrow to really display them. I really like the dimensions with at least 24" height and depth. I checked out a 180 gallon this last weekend for Ray and it's basically the same as mine, except for twice it's length (6'). Can't wait until he sets it up.

That 400 gallon is a monster. For future tanks, I'm gonna keep the 24" height in mind and wouldn't go for much over that. I was up to my armpits trying to plant the Marsilea in the back middle region of the tank. Not fun when there's hundreds of them to plant...


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

More fish pictures. 

Female puffer cruising around.









Female puffer hanging around w/the rummies.  









Dominant male altum once again.









Next fish down the pecking order.


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## snowman (Mar 17, 2005)

I have to say I'm blown away by the beauty of this tank. Most of the time they look better in person which makes me on imagine who it really looks! I would like to be sitting in front of it in a big ol' papazan chair drinking a beer. I have a friend who just ordered a custom Starfire tank from glasscages.com it's 144" x 30" x 24" I can only dream of what you could do with that bad boy! I was thinking that the puffer you have is more of a brackish fish? How long have you had it or them in there and how have they gotten along with the other inhabitants? You place the bench mark for an Altum tank high!

Snowman


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

snowman said:


> I have to say I'm blown away by the beauty of this tank. Most of the time they look better in person which makes me on imagine who it really looks! I would like to be sitting in front of it in a big ol' papazan chair drinking a beer. I have a friend who just ordered a custom Starfire tank from glasscages.com it's 144" x 30" x 24" I can only dream of what you could do with that bad boy! I was thinking that the puffer you have is more of a brackish fish? How long have you had it or them in there and how have they gotten along with the other inhabitants? You place the bench mark for an Altum tank high!
> 
> Snowman


Glad you like it.  Wowzers, that's a huge tank that your friend just ordered (~450 gallons); can't even imagine how much that costed him since it's a Starfire (talk about a dream tank)...

All reports that I've read about the species states that it's a freshwater species and have been kept in freshwater for many years (breeding in FW also). I've had this little pair for around two weeks now and they're getting alone fine. I do see a reduction in the snail population, but only in the areas above the sand, which is great. I used to have snails everywhere in the plants and on the glass. Now all that I see are the MTS when I go rooting around for them. As for interaction with the other fish, things are going well. They haven't touched any of the others (fins and all) and the others have left them alone. They do get pushed around due to their small size though (altums will take worms out of their mouths when they're trying to suck them down), but aren't harassed.


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## aquaverde (Apr 15, 2003)

There’s something about the look of this tank that’s really pleasing, and your re-‘scape is very, very nice. I almost would hate to see all the sandy bottom overtaken with your foreground, as the appearance of your substrate adds a lot to the overall tone, to me. I second Unirdna’s comments as well. You’ve really done a great job turning this into a showcase for those Altums.


Ibn said:


> For future tanks, I'm gonna keep the 24" height in mind and wouldn't go for much over that. I was up to my armpits trying to plant the Marsilea in the back middle region of the tank. Not fun when there's hundreds of them to plant...


Same here. My 65 is 24" deep, that's my definite limit. If it weren't for 5" of substrate at the back...

On a side note, do mind sharing your quarantine protocol, what you do exactly for de-lousing your fish etc.? I quarantine, but don’t treat fish unless they appear sick, and I think I could gain from hearing what you have to say.

Also, how do those puffers do with their tankmates? I like puffers’ interesting behavior, and have wanted to pick up a couple of dwarfs, but was afraid to.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

aquaverde said:


> There’s something about the look of this tank that’s really pleasing, and your re-‘scape is very, very nice. I almost would hate to see all the sandy bottom overtaken with your foreground, as the appearance of your substrate adds a lot to the overall tone, to me. I second Unirdna’s comments as well. You’ve really done a great job turning this into a showcase for those Altums.
> 
> Same here. My 65 is 24" deep, that's my definite limit. If it weren't for 5" of substrate at the back...
> 
> ...


Glad you like the aquascape. I took portions of it from an Amano tank that had similar plants (only his looks a lot better :hihi: ) and housed discus. I'm quite happy with the way that it turned out myself, after having spent an afternoon pulling all the plants out and then replanting (reaching down to plant those Marsilea is definitely not fun). I plan on weeding them out every once in awhile so that there will be some sand showing since the fish love picking the leftovers off the bottom.

As for quarantine, it's a pretty normal procedure that I go through. One important point even before getting to the quarantine stage is fish selection. 
This is where paying a tad more for captive bred fish really works out. They don't come in with the usual list of parasite and infection (less stress). 

I still quarantine them for a period of two weeks (made an exception for the red-eye puffers, since I was about to deworm the entire tank). I have a spare 10-gallon tank sitting underneath the stand. Once they're in there, I observe them for signs of bacterial infection and parasites. They're also dewormed (better to be safe then sorry) and finnage are allowed to heal if they're tattered in any way (I treat them with the usual Mela- and Pimafix). I also make sure that while they're in the tank that they are eating, otherwise they stay in there. 

Those red-eyes are doing really well with their tank inhabitants. I've looked at other puffers before and couldn't justify trying them with the altums until I saw this species. They get to twice the size of dwarf puffers (these guys top out at 2"), but they're more mellow. I've read and seen too many reports of dwarf puffers and their nippy habits and didn't want to come home to a tank full of tattered altums. I also didn't want something that gets too large and would make a meal out of the other fish in the tank. The main focal point of the tank was to be altum and I only wanted a couple of smaller balloons floating in the water column.  I think that this species fits in well with what I was looking for.


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## aquaverde (Apr 15, 2003)

Thanks for the reply, Eric. Fish prophylaxis is an area I'm trying to bone up on. (All right, you wiseacres, I can hear what you're thinking... :biggrin: )

Please keep us posted on the progress with those puffers. If it turns out they work OK with angels, then I'll end up putting them on my short list.


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## snowman (Mar 17, 2005)

Do you have a species name of the puffers seems there drawing interest!


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## rayhwong (Aug 6, 2004)

thats a gorgeous puffer! Do they eat MTS snails? Im getting a snail over population in my tank. He looks like a cruising tank.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

aquaverde said:


> Thanks for the reply, Eric. Fish prophylaxis is an area I'm trying to bone up on. (All right, you wiseacres, I can hear what you're thinking... :biggrin: )
> 
> Please keep us posted on the progress with those puffers. If it turns out they work OK with angels, then I'll end up putting them on my short list.


Yup, will do, especially since they're really small right now. Would be interesting to see how they do as they grow larger.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

snowman said:


> Do you have a species name of the puffers seems there drawing interest!


Here's the name:
Carinotetraodon irrubesco


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

rayhwong said:


> thats a gorgeous puffer! Do they eat MTS snails? Im getting a snail over population in my tank. He looks like a cruising tank.


They seem to. I haven't seen them actually do it, but since adding them, I've noticed a drastic reduction in the number of snails that are seen (on the plants, glass, etc.). I don't see any more MTS above the sand like I used to, but there's still a population of them in there. I pulled out 20+ from the sand during the replanting and that was only from a portion of the tank.

Oh yeah...forgot to mention this. Both of them came from Aaron over at Octopus Garden. There was a trio of these guys, but the males looked territorial, so I only bought a pair. He should still have that lone male in the tank still.


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## shalu (Jan 16, 2003)

Does the buffer top out at that size? I used to have a Figure8 puffer in the tank, it killed my rummy noses so I had to take it out.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

2" topped out.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Picked up a decent size group of otos over the weekend. Still trying to ID them. They're either Niger otos, Hisonotus leucofrenatus (or notatus), or red fin otos, Parotocinclus maculicauda. Currently quarantining them in a heavily algae infested tank (gets hit by sunlight) and can't wait til the next time that I see them. Hopefully I can get ID them and have some pictures up.

Can't believe that I only took one picture of the fish and it was the underside...


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## snowman (Mar 17, 2005)

IBN

Hey I found myself looking at the pictures of your Altum with shear amazement again. With your photo ability I think you should try your hand at getting a horizontal shot of your "King of the tank" with a few others behind him just out of focus...I want this shot for my desk to or maybe a calander! Thanks for the species name on the puffer it seem that "Carinotetraodon irrubesco" is a little hard to come by. Would you be offended if I tryed to replicate the general look of your tank? Getting geared up for a 180 which forces me to ask, does your tank have a divider and do you find it hard to work around if it does?

Thanks,
Snowman


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

snowman said:


> IBN
> 
> Hey I found myself looking at the pictures of your Altum with shear amazement again. With your photo ability I think you should try your hand at getting a horizontal shot of your "King of the tank" with a few others behind him just out of focus...I want this shot for my desk to or maybe a calander! Thanks for the species name on the puffer it seem that "Carinotetraodon irrubesco" is a little hard to come by. Would you be offended if I tryed to replicate the general look of your tank? Getting geared up for a 180 which forces me to ask, does your tank have a divider and do you find it hard to work around if it does?
> 
> ...


I'll see if I can get a shot of what you're looking for (might be awhile  ). As for being offended, not at all. The inspiration for the layout came from an amano tank and credits are due to the master himself. I'd be honor if you find it worthy of replication.

The tank does have a divider and it's a pretty large one at that. It does get in the way of planting, but I've found it easy to work around if I scape one side of the tank and then switch to the other. The hardest part for me to plant has been the middle rear portion of the tank, but a little bit of reaching does the trick (have a stool available).


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Moved three of these guys into the tank.










Altums are still growing, but not as quickly as they used to.


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## snowman (Mar 17, 2005)

WOW, those pic's make me feel as if I'm setting in front of your tank!...I guess that using a D70 can't hurt  I'd been wondering how things were going. Thanks for the post, any further pairing or replacement of dominance?


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## travdawg (Mar 16, 2005)

Ibn, what kind of clover is that you have planted? Crenata, minutae, etc?


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

snowman said:


> WOW, those pic's make me feel as if I'm setting in front of your tank!...I guess that using a D70 can't hurt  I'd been wondering how things were going. Thanks for the post, any further pairing or replacement of dominance?


Things are still going, but no signs of pairing or anything with the angels. They've grown progressively more aggressive as they age and some of them are getting quite large. Another odd thing is the fact that they're not growing at the same rate. One or more fish will go on a growth spurt and then slow down. Then the next set goes on theirs', while the first group slows down. It's very odd and I've never seen anything like it.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

travdawg said:


> Ibn, what kind of clover is that you have planted? Crenata, minutae, etc?


That's crenata planted in there. Larger than minuta, but works better than minuta due to the size and height of the tank.


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## snowman (Mar 17, 2005)

Ibn said:


> Things are still going, but no signs of pairing or anything with the angels. They've grown progressively more aggressive as they age and some of them are getting quite large. Another odd thing is the fact that they're not growing at the same rate. One or more fish will go on a growth spurt and then slow down. Then the next set goes on theirs', while the first group slows down. It's very odd and I've never seen anything like it.



I guess in any case as long as they aren't killing each other things are good! Keep up the posts always interested to see what's going on.


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## travdawg (Mar 16, 2005)

Thanks Ibn. Looks very nice! I love the clover plants, & hope to get some crenata when I finally get my 90 gallon up & running. I did locate some SICKLY lookin quadrafolia from the LFS over the past weekend. It was cut back low, so I replanted it in my eco substrate, & am hoping it comes back to life. I dont know how it is supposed to be pruned, but it looks like he took some old scissors & just hacked the plants down to about 2" "blades". 

Was also unsure of how to unpot & replant them,so I just cut the pot off of them, & tried to pick the roots out of the cardboard stuff that it was planted in, & buried it as best I could.... 

Sorry to babble, tank is amazing!!!


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Not a problem. 

Some more pictures that I snapped last night. No real update to the tank other than the algae. Ran out of CO2 and nitrates awhile back and ended up with algae. Not too bad and the tank is slowly coming back into balance. Until then, just pictures of the fish. :tongue: 



















Head to head encounter.









Schooling as usual.



























Head profile of one.









This one is tired of the pictures.









Here's one of the new otos munching away at the algae.









Head profile.









Love the coloration in their finnage.


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## John P. (Apr 10, 2004)

Ohmygod. Must fight the temptation to get 1) a larger tank, 2) altums. 

Nice pictures! Post more of the tank when you're back in the swing of things.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Haha...just do it man! :icon_bigg 

Thanks. Will definitely put more updated tank pics up when things are back in balance.


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## dewcew (Aug 3, 2004)

Eric,

Great looking angelfish! I love the coloring on those otto's. Did you find them somewhere locally? 

Dan


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Thanks, Dan. Yup, they were from a local source in the Central Valley (Modesto). Picked them up about a couple of months ago.

Still looking around for more of otos, especially zebras.


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

Eric,
Assuming that you don't have fin-nipping fish, will an Angel's dorsal eventually regrow to a point? Specifically referring to this one.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

It's from the territorial disputes that they go through. Once in awhile, a chunk of their tops will be missing, but it eventually grows back. Happens to their trailers also. It'll eventually fill back in and the single ray that you see in the picture will be gone.


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

Good the hear. I ask mainly because the gold veil angel I have had a rounded dorsal when I bought it. It's growing back, but I didn't know if it would ever fully form the point again.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Unless it's been bred with that gene, it'll grow back into a tip.


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

Guess I'll just have to wait and see then. Thanks.


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## Thanks (Oct 9, 2004)

somebody give this guy a 5-star. in terms of rating the thread, that is roud: 

awesome altums. One day, I promise myself, I will get a 90-125 gallon, with 6-8 altums. :icon_bigg


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## cprroy73 (Nov 10, 2004)

very nice altums, I have never seen otos like that. Awesome tank.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

LOL...thanks guys.

Not literally in the Otocinclus genus, but is goes by the trade name of red fin oto.


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## Silent Running (Sep 13, 2004)

Love the altums Eric. Got any updated shots of the tank?


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## Fat Guy (Nov 19, 2003)

so so awesome. beautiful tank and fish.


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## turtlehead (May 31, 2005)

Nice fish, tank and photo taking skills! Props!


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## kunerd (Jul 19, 2005)

Update time


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## Lorenceo (Jan 29, 2004)

kunerd said:


> Update time


 I'll second that


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Eric - Great tank! Great thread! I love the aquascape! It sets the altums off really well, IMO. So natural looking...

Looking forward to more tank pics!


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## Curare (Sep 15, 2004)

I've gotta say I'm blown away with the detail you're getting, especially on the ottos'

What kind of setup are you using to do that? macro?


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## dissident (Oct 15, 2003)

Just stunning Altums. I can't wait untill mine grow out and look like yours roud: 

How long have you had them for?


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Thanks, guys and gals.



scolley said:


> Looking forward to more tank pics!


Thinking about redoing the scape of the tank so when I get around that there'll be more pictures.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Curare said:


> I've gotta say I'm blown away with the detail you're getting, especially on the ottos'
> 
> What kind of setup are you using to do that? macro?


Thanks. Setup used to take the oto pictures was D70 with Tamron 90mm f/2.8 macro lens. Remote flash (SB-800) used on the top of the tank to provide enough lighting to illuminate the fish.

If you're interested in aquarium photography, might want to make your way over to APF (www.aquatic-photography.com). Lots of good info there and plenty of people who are willing to share.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

dissident said:


> Just stunning Altums. I can't wait untill mine grow out and look like yours roud:
> 
> How long have you had them for?


Not too long. I picked them up sometime in February I believe. It's really amazing how fast they grow and the colors that they get as they mature is simply stunning. I'm sure that you'll enjoy keeping them as I have so far. :wink:


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## dissident (Oct 15, 2003)

Sorry to bother you but you havent had any recent posts about your water params. Altums are a little more picky then you general angels, so i was kind of wondering what your Ph/Gh/Kh were at. Also do you use peat as a filter material?


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

these are stunning! will they mix with other angels and maybe discus? or are they more suted to a species tank... im going to be setting up a 53 gallon and they have a trio of beautiful altums at the lfs and i saw some babbies for sale and was wondering if i could mix to baby altums with a what i think is a silver veil and possibly in the future a snakeskin discus at the lfs they have the snakeskin with the trio of altums and they look awsome! i love these guys definatly a favorite fish....


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

dissident said:


> Sorry to bother you but you havent had any recent posts about your water params. Altums are a little more picky then you general angels, so i was kind of wondering what your Ph/Gh/Kh were at. Also do you use peat as a filter material?


Actually, I haven't found them to be too picky as far as with the water parameters (vs. discus). pH is steady at 6.8, KH of 4, and GH of 9. No peat in the water. pH was lowered via the addition of CO2 and the lowering of the KH and GH was through the peat in the base of the substrate (there's a fair amount of driftwood in the tank also) - approximately 1" of peat on the bottom of the tank. 

I'm gonna drop the pH down a bit further, to 6.5, when I get around to it.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Fish Newb said:


> these are stunning! will they mix with other angels and maybe discus? or are they more suted to a species tank... im going to be setting up a 53 gallon and they have a trio of beautiful altums at the lfs and i saw some babbies for sale and was wondering if i could mix to baby altums with a what i think is a silver veil and possibly in the future a snakeskin discus at the lfs they have the snakeskin with the trio of altums and they look awsome! i love these guys definatly a favorite fish....


You can mix these guys with just about any thing as long as they're compatible with the altums. They were kept in a tank with discus before hand and coexisted quite peacefully (most of the squabbling is within their own ranks). 

Just make sure that you keep on top of the water changes. These guys go off their feeding if it isn't done regularly. :icon_conf


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## dudleystinks (Apr 9, 2005)

IBN do those puffers of yours hide a lot or are they mostly out in the open. I have some aswell but they hide almost all the time :icon_frow


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Can't usually find them during the day time since they're hunting in the thickets of plants (great snail eaters); still see them weaving in and out of the foliage. Once I'm in front of the tank however, out they come since they know they're being fed.

Might want to give them a bit more time to adjust to the tank. They're not shy at all.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Just a quick equipment update. Switched from the 384W of PC (4x96W) over to 500W of halides (2x250W 10,000k Ushio bulbs). Just booted them up in the canopy. No updates of the tank since it's in a mess right now (was on vacation for the last 10 days and had a lot of evaporation and no ferts going). I'll post pics of the tank up after the tank heals up a bit. 

Until then, pics of the canopy instead.


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

Looks nice eric, btw what are the dimensions of your tank again?


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

Ibn said:


> Switched from the 384W of PC (4x96W) over to 500W of halides (2x250W 10,000k Ushio bulbs).


WOW!  That's a lot of light over a big tank. No wonder you needed the fans! :icon_lol:

Any reason you're not using some PC or T-5s in the mix and only running the MHs during a mid-day peak period?


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

John, the dimensions of the tank are 36x24x24. 

Haha, yup, that's what the fans are for. As for why just halides, just thought that I'd give them a shot. I've been thinking about going halides for awhile now (influenced from my old reef keeping days). For some reason I haven't even thought about T5s at all, even though I've read countless posts and threads about their effectiveness. As for PCs, have a few sets of them, but they're all Hamiltons ABS units which come in their own enclosures. Didn't feel like ripping them out and using them, so I just went with halides.


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## Marc (Oct 13, 2004)

Nice setup eric- any new pictures of the tank? How are the altums doing?


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## TheOtherGeoff (Feb 11, 2003)

man i dunno how i missed this thread. altums are soooo cool. i wish i could afford them. tank looks great. i want to see pics of it with the MH on.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

The altums are doing great, Marc. Trying to squeeze some size on them at the moment. These guys are pigs when it comes to food. I go through about a pound of frozen bloodworms every two weeks or so (I just picked up 4 lbs. of frozen worms this past weekend, so they're good for now  ). 

Tank looks like a mess since I've been on vacation. I'll post some later after the tank is back in balance...


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## broodwich (Nov 29, 2005)

Hey Eric a.k.a. Eheim Pimp,

I take it you like that 2128. I was considering that as one option for a new tank I am planing. Do you use the heating aspect of that filter? Is it enough heating for your tank or do you also have another heater? Would it be enough filtration for a 125 gallon planted tank?


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## matthewburk (Sep 22, 2005)

Wow, I like that canopy, lots of room. Does it get hot in there with the MH's, and does light spill out from the fans.

BTW those are some nice looking fish.


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

broodwich said:


> Hey Eric a.k.a. Eheim Pimp,
> 
> I take it you like that 2128. I was considering that as one option for a new tank I am planing. Do you use the heating aspect of that filter? Is it enough heating for your tank or do you also have another heater? Would it be enough filtration for a 125 gallon planted tank?


I've got a 2028 on my 125g tank, but supplement it with a Fluval 304. The tank is just too long for one filter to fully cover...especially if it's heavily planted. Even with my two filters running I still have dead spots where debris collects and needs to be vacuumed out during water changes.


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## broodwich (Nov 29, 2005)

Thanks Bill. I thought that two filters might be in order for 125 gallons. I am trying to decide between canister filters or a sump tank setup. I like the idea of the sump because of the ascetics. With the pumps, the heaters, thermometer, all that CO2 hardware I think it would look a lot cleaner to have all that equipment in a sump tank in the cabinet below the main tank.

Todd


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## co2 (Sep 13, 2004)

Eric, your pictures are unreal!

Is the puffer still leaving the other fish alone? I have been hesitant to mix them with tetras. Do you think that the species you have is more docile than the "normal" Indian Dwarf Puffers?


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Really like the 2128, but as Bill said, it's a bit underpowered, especially if your tank is along the lines of a 125 gallon. I've been considering plumbing a second 2128 into the system or do a close loop circulation to increase flow in there. 

Thanks, Matt. I wanted the metal halides to be high enough so that the light spillage would cover the tank. The canopy really helps with light spillage and it's all just over the tank rather than the room (other than slightly in the back, since it isn't fully closed, a little bit of spillage does occur back there which is hardly noticeable). The fans also help keep the light in since they're mounted on the inside.

As for heat, it's not bad at all. Each of those fans create 80 cfm of air circulation and even after running them for the full 10 hours, there is no affect on the water temperature. Also, the distance helps with that. I can do maintenance on the tank with the front doors open, which is part of the original plan for building such a tall hood.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

co2 said:


> Eric, your pictures are unreal!
> 
> Is the puffer still leaving the other fish alone? I have been hesitant to mix them with tetras. Do you think that the species you have is more docile than the "normal" Indian Dwarf Puffers?


Thanks, Craig.  

The puffers did leave the other fish alone from the second that it was added to the tank and until it was removed. I've since added some nerite snails to the tank and for doing so, the puffers were removed. Otherwise, they'd still be in there and chowing on the snails (I'm starting to see pond snails pop up and for the first time MTS above the sand). They were truly docile and it was fun watching them zip around the tank, especially trying to feed among the angels. They would have a bloodworm in their mouth and slowly chowing down on it and a passing angel would stop and just take it back out, haha. 

Truly comical fish and I would recommend it over those dwarf puffers. They're not nippy at all and very docile species. I still have the same amount of rummynose tetras (they're around 1.5") as when I started out with the puffers and would recommend it to others. For smaller tetras (e.g. neons) I would keep an eye out on them for the first few weeks (even larger tetras will prey on these guys).


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Some pics of the altum angels instead this time around.


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## gw11ucb (Jan 3, 2004)

ahhhh.... look at my babies! They're all grown up now! I wanna cry


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## ctmpwrdcamry (May 10, 2005)

They look very nice! I never really liked angles*hides* but these thread is making me think about some.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

They're not grown yet. Growth isn't as quick as it was before even though they still eat up a storm. The frozen stuff is probably not as protein rich as the live...


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

ctmpwrdcamry said:


> They look very nice! I never really liked angles*hides* but these thread is making me think about some.


Quite alright.  I'm not much for angels either, but have a soft spot for the lesser seen ones (P. leopoldi, P. dumerlii, and of course P. altums).


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## hir0 (Nov 3, 2005)

nice shots Eric. let's see a group shot!


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Hey Eric, I've gotta ask, never having been a reefer...

How's that light ripple effect from those halides? Vs. the PC's uniform wash of light. It's gotta look great! roud:


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

I'll see what I can do about the group shot later today. They school to some degree, but really only when they know food is coming. 

Not sure about the light ripple yet. No surface movement at all on the surface so there aren't any ripples. Gotta remedy that somehow since they are cool looking. roud:


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## Goldfishcrazy11 (Nov 20, 2005)

It's good that you're going to be moving them when they get bigger and pair off... Altums can grow to be about 18" tall and about 4"-6" long. I've read that a 75 gallon for a pair is too small- so maybe you shouldn't add any more, especially since it's not a bare tank with tons of swimming space and it has other fish in it.


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## ValorG (Dec 27, 2003)

ive been wanting to get altums for years but its hard to get them here in n.y. how are they in a planted tank? do u dose ferts and use co2?


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## Cheeseybacon (Feb 13, 2005)




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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Goldfishcrazy11 said:


> It's good that you're going to be moving them when they get bigger and pair off... Altums can grow to be about 18" tall and about 4"-6" long. I've read that a 75 gallon for a pair is too small- so maybe you shouldn't add any more, especially since it's not a bare tank with tons of swimming space and it has other fish in it.


Interesting info. Top size vertically for these guys are more along the lines of 14" tall. As for a 75 gallon being too small for a pair, that's actually the first time that I've seen that too. Breeders, the few that there are, breed them in smaller tanks than this.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

ValorG said:


> ive been wanting to get altums for years but its hard to get them here in n.y. how are they in a planted tank? do u dose ferts and use co2?


Valor, they do well in a planted tank, especially with tall vertical plants like Cyperus helferi and swords. The first sign of trouble and off they run into the thickets. 

They're in a high light tank that does get plenty of CO2 (hovering in the 45-50 ppm range) and ferts. pH is set at a constant 6.5 via the SMS 122 controller which controls the Milwaukee regulator. 

Dosing using the Estimative Index and the angels don't mind it at all. They even try to eat the dry dose ferts once in awhile. :icon_conf 

Thanks, Cheesy.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Well, went in and tried to do the plumbing with some quick disconnects (thanks to Bill, aka bharada, for showing me his setup  ) and getting a Mag 9.5 into the loop for water changing purposes later down the line. Got a leak on one of the valves so I decided to go in and redo the entire tank (wood is still floating so once it sinks it should sit on the sand). 

Here's the new look.











...sorry about the cloudiness. Taken right before the lights went out after the changeover (which included a 50% water change). The filter is still out of commission (need to pick up a pipe clamp) and other than the lights, nothing is plugged in.

Also, before anyone asks, the stuff in the mesh, from left to right are: erect moss, java moss (or was it Taiwan...), creeping moss, and hemianthus callichtroides. Considering using one of the mosses for the foreground at the moment...


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## emoore3 (Oct 18, 2003)

Hey Eric. Great looking tank. You mentioned that you recently bought nerite snails. Did you get them in the bay area? If so where? I am in Sunnyvale and am looking for some nerite snails. Thanks.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Thanks. 

The nerites aren't from a local source. They're (you can see some in the lower left hand corner and one on the glass) from azgardens. Minimum order is $35 there and shipping is another $20, so keep that in mind.


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## skabooya (Apr 15, 2005)

Awsome tank!
I was just wondering (it was prob already answered but...) What kind of branches are those in your tank and how did you treat them? Are they rotting at all. Just wondering because i want to have branches in my angel tank but im worried about them rotting too fast if i get the wrong kind from the woods. The pet stores here dont sell branch type wood or stumps.
thanks


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Nope, haven't answered that one yet.  

The wood that's in there, branches wise, are manzanitas (if you need larger branches, try Arbutus). Picked them up this past weekend and as far as treatment, nothing was really done to them. Extra branches that weren't needed were removed and any bark which stuck out from the branches were removed by hand. There's some lichen on the two smaller pieces (the white areas) and I didn't have a hard brush to remove them so I just put them in as is. Most likely to grow some sort of fungus or algae where they're at, but figure that I'd just put the wood in there and just wait until it sinks before I take them out again and give them a scrub.


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## TheOtherGeoff (Feb 11, 2003)

thats such a pretty tank. prolley one of my top favorites on this board easily. very nice. i could sit and watch that allll day


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## Raul-7 (Oct 17, 2003)

Whatever happened to this setup Eric?


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## cannonj22 (Dec 7, 2004)

I really like that look with the wood hanging down. I have 5 sub adult altums about 7 inches tall or so and they love when roots go down into the water like that. Discus do as well actually, especially the wild ones. I put the wood in the water floating, and they immediately went to go hang out underneath it. Did you see anything similar since your fish are wild?

Joe


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## bastalker (Dec 8, 2004)

Awsome tank Eric, an the altums just add to the whole effect!! Be jaw dropping gorgeous once everything is all grown up!roud:


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## mecgeorgeneo (Aug 12, 2005)

wow ur fish are beautiful. excellent for breeding- perfect fins, healthy. if only that were easy...
i hear these fish will eat guppies and neon tetras- eek!


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Thanks. The tank is still up and running, but I haven't done much with it. I've been replanting it every month or so and at the moment just waiting for stuff to fill in. I'll post a photo soon with the progress of it.

As for the altums, they're definitely hanging underneath the wood or near the wood all the time. That's the first place that they run to if anything threatens them. 

Yup, they will eat smaller fishes so you have to be careful with what you put in there. I tried a pack of green neons when they were much younger, but they were gone in approximately a week. Next up were rummy noses. These lasted a bit longer and of the 18 that I had in there, I'm down to 6 at the moment. Added some yellow tail congos in there and lost 2 in the first week, but I think the remaining 10 have gotten smart enough to avoid the altums. Lastly, I was given 13 oversize Endler's livebearers (the largest one is larger than my yellow tail congos) to put in there in hopes of them breeding and supplying a source of live food for the altums. I'm currently down to 6 females after 3 weeks of being in there but I'm starting to see little Endlers here and there, so we'll see what happens (interesting to see Endler's schooling with the other fishes, haha).


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## ianiwane (Sep 7, 2004)

haha, I'm glad my Endler's are going to some use. Down to 6 only now huh? hahaha


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Yup, 6 of the largest ones are still alive and dropping offsprings, but not sure if any of those will make it. I have a lot of stuff growing on the surface at the moment and more than half of the tank is shaded by the growth.

What the left side of the tank looks like from the top.


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## paradise (Dec 11, 2003)

Eric, you need more manzanitas    I know a guy ...


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## aquaverde (Apr 15, 2003)

Eric, you're pics are tremendous. If I had a larger version of the second one, it would be my desktop.


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## Schnauzer (Feb 17, 2006)

Tank and fish look great Eric.


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## AQUASAUR (Mar 9, 2006)

*Hi, Eric!*
Very cool and natural looking tank you got there...roud: 
I wanna ask you also about the nerite snails…
What kind exactly yours – please share a photo close up of them!
I got a dozen of *Neritina Natalensis* in some of my small tanks,
but I think they are very lazy and didn’t see to do much useful work…


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## Architect1 (Feb 19, 2006)

Wow beautiful tank, angels and everything. Them angels look smaller then the other types maybe cause there in a huge tank. whats the size of them? Good luck hopw the plants fill out soon.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

If you have a ruler or measuring tape near you, take it and stretch it out to 9-9.5". That's the average height of these guys. To get an idea of their body size, it's about the diameter of a coke can.


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## uncskainch (Feb 22, 2005)

Beautiful fish, a beautiful tank and inspiring photography. Thanks so much for sharing this thread.


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## Badcopnofishtank (Jan 20, 2004)

Hey Eric, 
I stumbled upon your thread and all I can say is wow! 

Do you like the M/H better than the CF's? New pics? 

Keep up the great work!


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## fresh_lynny (Mar 9, 2006)

Eric gorgeous tank and healthy fishes!!!!!!
Where did you get the mesh for your mosses....do you thred them in there or do you just intertwine them in the mesh?
Does the metal in the mesh affect your chemical balance at all?


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

uncskainch said:


> Beautiful fish, a beautiful tank and inspiring photography. Thanks so much for sharing this thread.


Thanks, Kathy. Glad that you like it.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Badcopnofishtank said:


> Hey Eric,
> I stumbled upon your thread and all I can say is wow!
> 
> Do you like the M/H better than the CF's? New pics?
> ...


Thanks. Yes, I do prefer the MH over the CF. The amount of light on the tank is a bit overkill, but with the right amount of co2 and ferts, it can work; plus the shimmering effects from the halides is mesmerizing. :hihi:

No new pics yet since the tank is going through another rescaping. I tend to have a tendency to rearrange things and try out different plants on a pretty regular basis. I'll post some new ones up once I figure out what I want to do with it.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

fresh_newby said:


> Eric gorgeous tank and healthy fishes!!!!!!
> Where did you get the mesh for your mosses....do you thred them in there or do you just intertwine them in the mesh?
> Does the metal in the mesh affect your chemical balance at all?


Thanks. 

The mesh came from here as part of a local group order:
http://www.twpinc.com/twp/jsp/product.jsp?type=12&itemId=116&page=buy

The moss is actually held down onto the stainless steel mesh via some nylon green mesh so it blends in very well. No effects to the water quality whatsoever and is a great way to get a portable foreground into just about any tank (cut them to size accordingly).


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## daykinmade (Jul 26, 2005)

is this tank still up an running? I love love love it. just read the hole thread and am very impressed. is there an update on the thread in the works?
thinking about getting some Altums next week. can you explain the deworming regime? also does running a UV kill these pests (worms?)

thanks
Jack


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

For that many, you need a 125-180gal range.

They come from pH 3.7-4.0 ranges, so they die easily when brought up and disease is tough on them. Skittish to boot.

We knocked the KH to zero and added some ADA AS, they seem to do well as it lowers the pH and reduces some bacteria. 

They look like they are in decent shape, run the heck out of a UV if you have one, if not, get one.

You can see some the live food ideas on another tread for them.

regards, 
Tom Barr


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## fresh_lynny (Mar 9, 2006)

AQUASAUR said:


> *Hi, Eric!*
> Very cool and natural looking tank you got there...roud:
> I wanna ask you also about the nerite snails…
> What kind exactly yours – please share a photo close up of them!
> ...


get the Olive Nerites, Hristo...they are busy little workers and they keep things clean!


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Jack, it's still up and running. I thinned down the pack to 4 right now just to give them some more room to grow. 

As for the water, keep it soft and acidic like Tom said. They're currently in the tank with pH of 6.0 and a KH of 1 at the moment. I've kept them at a slightly higher pH of 6.5, but they weren't taking to it very well. Also, make sure that the water is clean, otherwise they stop eating. 

The deworming was done in a quarantine tank with a combination of levamisole and metronidazole when I first got them. The UV won't work on the worms since it's an internal parasite and I recommend that you deworm them when you first get them. 

I redid the tank a few days ago and still waiting for some of the plants to get here for the background. Once they're here and planted, I'll post a new picture up.


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## Gill (Mar 20, 2005)

Dunno How i missed his thread. Just spectacular.

PS - What type of puffer is That


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## daykinmade (Jul 26, 2005)

thanks for the info guys
I don't have a Q-tank (NYC apt is very very small especially with a 50G tank in it). fortunately the tank is empty except for a few Otos. so basically I have an empty but heavily planted tank sitting there, is posable to deworm them in there, or will the deworming medicine hurt the plants. also Im planning on getting pressurized C02 this week. should I worry about a PH crash, seeing as my PH is currently 6.2 / KH=1, or would a PH crash be a good thing. I know a 50 Gallon is very small for Altums, but I am willing to bump up to a larger tank. Altums will be at the shop next week.
thanks so much for the excellent knowledge, and once again, ONE HECK OF A TANK!
best,
Jack


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Gill, those are red eye, red tail puffers. The male is the one with the red coloration whereas the female is the less colorful one. More pictures of them can be found here:

carinotetraodon_irrubesco Photo Gallery by Eric Do at pbase.com

Jack, you can probably deworm them in that tank, but it's gonna get messy and a bit more expensive. With a larger tank like that (vs. a quarantine tank) you'll have to use more medication for the same effect. Also, once the altums expel the worms, it's not a pretty sight. 

As for the pH crash, I'd check with the water that the altums are coming in before you decide to do anything with it. Mine came in with really acidic water (pH 4.5 and I couldn't figure out what the KH was) and I acclimated them to the water extremely slowly since the pH in the tank at the time was 6.5. In total, I spent 14 hours acclimating them. After they were used to the water (took about a week), I cranked the co2 up and dropped the pH to a lower level.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Good job on the acclimatization, to get low losses, all the work you have done has paid off. Now they should do pretty well.

The client I have doing the behemoth has 64 and has only lost one. 
He's really good with SA fish and angels and discus in particular.
Hopefully he'll have a large school at some point in the tank, but the quarantining advice is spot on Eric.

Nice tank indeedy!

I'd not worry too much about the KH going too low, I think this is not an issue, a stable rate of CO2 added is more important, that never changes even if the KH drops to near zero, all that occurs then is you can not measure the CO2 ppms with the table is all.

The tank does not have aqua soil does it?
Haha, about time for it



Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Dang, 1 fish out of 64, now that's some good acclimating. 

Tom, the tank already has AS in it. Originally 3.5 9L bags worth of it and I dumped in another 1/2 bag in the back about 4 days ago to build a mound up back there. Gonna dump the rest of the bag in once I get more rocks to serve as a retaining wall.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Groovy, the mix of ADA AS and this species is a good one.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

your tank is one of the best altum tanks on the forum... any more updates?

- fish newb -


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Here's an updated picture of the tank.









Tank is gonna undergo some changes soon again. That pink micro e. tenellus is coming out and getting replaced by some utricularia graminifolia this weekend.


Largest altum in the pack at the moment.


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## fresh_lynny (Mar 9, 2006)

pretty Eric....I love Altums


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## Ryzilla (Oct 29, 2005)

Ibn said:


> Tank is gonna undergo some changes soon again. That pink micro e. tenellus is coming out and getting replaced by some utricularia graminifolia this weekend.



How is e. tenellus different from micro e.tenellus? My e.tenellus grows to +6" sometimes around 9".


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## Nightshop (May 12, 2006)

Love the tank, looks deeper than it is!


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Thanks. Glad you guys like it. I switched out the foreground and changed the layout of the plants slightly while adding a few others into the mix. 



Ryzilla said:


> How is e. tenellus different from micro e.tenellus? My e.tenellus grows to +6" sometimes around 9".


The micro E. tenellus leaves are about 1/2 the width of the E. tenellus and is shorter growing. This variety also gets a nice pink coloration. In the Amazonia soil however, it's growing to about the same height as the E. tenellus so I pulled it out for something shorter.


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## CardBoardBoxProcessor (Sep 17, 2006)

So rummies and angles can mix with a betta fish? :eek5: wow.. will dwarf cichlids mix with a Betta too?

you need some cories to zip about udner that grass stuff.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

The betta is sort of out of its elements with the other fish in the tank, but he doesn't seem to mind and neither do the others. The only fish that he bothers are the female endlers; he chases them once in awhile. Bought a couple of crowntail bettas for photography so they'll eventually go. 

No more of the grassy stuff, but still considering cories.


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## CardBoardBoxProcessor (Sep 17, 2006)

cories are grea tlittle thigns. espesical ina large shoal. skimmign voer the surface one after another in a leap frog like manner. they ar elike flying fish but under the water haha.


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

ur tank looks great. i really have to say i like how you sign your work with your "logo" lol it looks really cool!

i have one question, do you take most of your altum pictures Right after you turn the lights on? is that why in most of your pictures they are sooo light? and the full tank shot they are darker? looks wierd with them so light, but hey that must just be me.

i would deffinatly suggest a school of 6-10 corries in that tank they will look great, i would probably suggest the corries who are brown and speckled with orange acents, (can't think of the name at the moment...) or around 2 dozen dwarf cories would look crazy!

thanks for the updates!

- Fish newb -


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## Brilliant (Apr 11, 2006)

The tank looks great and fish look even better.

Whats the difference between Pterophyllum scalare and Pterophyllum altum?


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## fresh_lynny (Mar 9, 2006)

Eric....do you worry about utricularia graminifolia eating fry? I think it is a carnivore, no? Or am I thinking of something else....


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## CardBoardBoxProcessor (Sep 17, 2006)

:eek5: a carnie under water plant? amazing >>


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## esarkipato (Jul 19, 2005)

> Whats the difference between Pterophyllum scalare and Pterophyllum altum?


I've been wondering this very thing. What sets them apart?

Your tank looks gorgeous by the way. I love the look of that E. Tellenus 'micro' or whatever.....but I understand it might get cumbersome!


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Fish Newb said:


> ur tank looks great. i really have to say i like how you sign your work with your "logo" lol it looks really cool!
> 
> i have one question, do you take most of your altum pictures Right after you turn the lights on? is that why in most of your pictures they are sooo light? and the full tank shot they are darker? looks wierd with them so light, but hey that must just be me.
> 
> ...


Thanks.  I usually take the pictures right after a water change and they tendo to change coloration due to their mood. The lighter coloration is when all of them are pretty relaxed. When they start going at each other they get really dark striping. 

Thanks for the recommendation on the cories. I have been considering some dwarf cories for awhile now, but haven't added since they'd be snack size.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

The difference between P. altum and P. scalare is pretty noticeable. P. altum has brown stripes that will turn black at certain times, but P. scalare (wild) striping are constantly a darker black coloration. P. altum also grows larger and has longer flowing finnage. P. altum is also much harder to keep and extremely difficult to breed. Due to this all the P. altums that you see available are wild caught fish only available during a certain time of the year vs. P. scalare which are usually tank raised and widely available. P. altum also requires softer water than P. scalare; pH 6.5 with KH of 5 or lower is necessary to even consider keeping them.

U. graminifolia is indeed a carnivorous underwater plant that makes a great foreground. I'm not worried about the U. graminifolia eating fry since there's none in the tank at the moment and if there was any, the altums takes care of them (my Endler females drop babies quite often, but they never escape the mouth of the altums). Also, the bladders on them are really small so I'm not too worried about it.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

CardBoardBoxProcessor said:


> :eek5: a carnie under water plant? amazing >>


Yes, there's currently two carnivorous underwater plant in the tank. The first is Utricularia graminifolia which is being used as a foreground. The second is Aldrovanda vesiculosa, which has much larger bladders and will take decent size fry. Not too worried about this either since it's a floater and usually makes its round above 20" above the plants.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

esarkipato said:


> I've been wondering this very thing. What sets them apart?
> 
> Your tank looks gorgeous by the way. I love the look of that E. Tellenus 'micro' or whatever.....but I understand it might get cumbersome!


It's a really quick grower and tends to grow larger in Aqua Soil. I have some which are at the 5"+ mark, so it's a bit too tall to be used as a foreground for me. I'm getting rid of it at the next local plant swap and using a few other plants as foregrounds instead (U. graminifoloia, C. parva, and B. japonica).


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Here's a shot taken last night right after a water change. No more micro E. tenellus in the tank. That's Blyxa japonica in the foreground there. It's getting yanked in a couple of days so the tank will change again. :hihi:









Quite a bit of the plants are getting yanked in the next couple of days (all the broadleaf stellata that's floating is going, the R. wallichii, R. sp. 'colorata', etc.). 

Here's another sequence taken earlier awhile ago. This is what happens when altums challenge each other.




































The one in the back, which is smaller and stronger, won out.


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## Raul-7 (Oct 17, 2003)

Beautiful! I assume the alpha male tore off the top of his dorsal fin? 

That last picture is specatular especially the way he is displaying! Are they full grown yet and do you plan on breeding them?


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## Steven_Chong (Sep 14, 2004)

Can you show close-ups of the checker-board cichlids? I love those guys


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## TheOtherGeoff (Feb 11, 2003)

those look kinda small. how big are they actually?


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Raul-7 said:


> Beautiful! I assume the alpha male tore off the top of his dorsal fin?
> 
> That last picture is specatular especially the way he is displaying! Are they full grown yet and do you plan on breeding them?


Scars from a past dispute. That one has been through the thick of things and always comes out ahead even though he is never the largest in the pack. 

They're not full grown yet. They have some more size to put on and I have been trying to stimulate them to even pair up. I've dropped pH down to 5.5 with a KH of 1 and still no signs of interest.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

greenmiddlefinger said:


> Can you show close-ups of the checker-board cichlids? I love those guys


Don't have a real good shot of the male yet, but here they are.

Male









Female


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

TheOtherGeoff said:


> those look kinda small. how big are they actually?


Those are yellow tail Congos in the middle of the tank there. They're about 3" across so you can kind of compare them to the altum in the upper left hand corner. I was sitting about 6 feet away from the tank to take those pictures (they're uncropped taken with a 105mm lens). 

If you have a soft drink bottle, take a look at that. That's about the size of the body of one of these guys. The largest one is about 8.5" tall.


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## paradise (Dec 11, 2003)

And they are mine, BWAHAHA!!!


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

LOL. As soon as you stop by to pick them up.


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## TheOtherGeoff (Feb 11, 2003)

Ibn said:


> Those are yellow tail Congos in the middle of the tank there. They're about 3" across so you can kind of compare them to the altum in the upper left hand corner. I was sitting about 6 feet away from the tank to take those pictures (they're uncropped taken with a 105mm lens).
> 
> If you have a soft drink bottle, take a look at that. That's about the size of the body of one of these guys. The largest one is about 8.5" tall.


awesome. they are beasts. i would LOVE to have some of them in my tank. you have no idea.


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Oohh, nice shots Eric. I do like the Blyxa in the foreground. What are you replacing with? The tank looks great!


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## Steven_Chong (Sep 14, 2004)

I love dicrossus!!  Thanks Eric!!


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Betowess said:


> Oohh, nice shots Eric. I do like the Blyxa in the foreground. What are you replacing with? The tank looks great!


Thanks. I'm doing a mixture of Utricularia graminifolia and Crypt parva for the foreground.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

greenmiddlefinger said:


> I love dicrossus!!  Thanks Eric!!


Any time. BTW, here's the other Dicrossus.


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

Ibn said:


> Thanks. I'm doing a mixture of Utricularia graminifolia and Crypt parva for the foreground.


I hope George sold you the ultra-slow growing Utricularia if you intend the parva to have any chance of being seen. :icon_lol:


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## bastalker (Dec 8, 2004)

Hey Eric, for some reason the pics are not comin up for me. Any ideas?


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

The C. parva is actually keeping pace with the Utricularia at the moment. Once the Utricularia really starts to fill in, I'll bunch the C. parva up to a more confined area.

Mark, for some reason the URL was off, but I went back and corrected for the recent pics posted.


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## bastalker (Dec 8, 2004)

Thanks for the pics Eric!!

Nice growth in a very well planted, natural lookin tank for sure!

The Altums are aw some, an look to be right at home. I like the feeding cones! They are feeding cones right? Definitely keeps the siphoning down to a minimum!:biggrin:


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## Schnauzer (Feb 17, 2006)

Any full tank shots lately Eric?


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## khoile (Jan 27, 2005)

It's been a year.... any updates? I would love to see how the altums grow as I am considering them myself.


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

khoile said:


> It's been a year.... any updates? I would love to see how the altums grow as I am considering them myself.


IT'S GONE!


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## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

what? no more?


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Nope, he tore it down a while back.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Tore it down and sold the setup to a friend of mine. Was gonna move so didn't want to move such a big tank, but haven't yet. My loss, his gain.


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

Shame, I just read this thread and it's made me wish I had my own house and the money to build such a nice tank for some Altums.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Yeah, those guys were stunning when I had to let them go. The tallest one was tipping in at 9.5" vertical. I'll keep them again some day, in a bigger tank this time though (something like the ADA 180).


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

Or Amano's Altum tank. 
How big do Altum's get I'm sure I've heard 12 inches meaning they'd be like 18inches tall?!


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

14" tall is the largest that I've heard about.


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

Ah, sounds like I confused Height with length, Lovely fish and lovely tank, after the move what are your plans tank wise?


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Nothing really planned at the moment. Just keeping the 4.4 gallon acrylic (posted in the nano tank section this morning) and the 3.5 starfire reef tank going for now.

I'm still planning on moving sometime in 2008 so until then, all plans are on hold.


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## khoile (Jan 27, 2005)

I'm getting a 72x30x25 to keep them . Hope that's enough.


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## fopik (Feb 21, 2008)

Hello,

This is my first post on this board,
I've a tank 200x50x50cm, do you guys think I can bread Altum Fish in this tank?

Greatings from Poland


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