# Orange Sakura Shrimp laying on back. Need help.



## Pluke (Jun 17, 2017)

I got some shrimp over the weekend and they are acting strange. The first day, they were happy as could, eating and swimming all over the place. Next day they slowly fizzled out and are kind of just standing around. Yesterday one shed and the others are still basically just hanging out on the plants, not much movement. Now today apparently one is laying on it's back on the substrate, not dead, but we put it back upright. The shrimp in question had the top of it's shell kind of change color to a bright orange and is also possibly the one who molted. I'm not sure.

What could cause this? The temperature probably isn't as high as it should be for tropical fish, I'm guessing high 60's. Thermometer and Heater is coming in the mail tomorrow. I read that temperature doesn't bother these shrimp too much. The tank is cycled with with a nitrate level of 5-10, 0 ammonia and nitrite. P.H is 7.8. I don't know what to do. I thought of doing a water change, but I'm not sure. The tank is about a month old now, fish cycled with eco-complete substrate and plants. Was it too early for shrimp? I don't have another place for these guys to live in the mean time. What should I do?


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

Well what were the water parameters they were in from where you got them. As far as shrimp these are hardier than most but you want to match as close to what they were. Also what is your gh? Too low they will have problems molting. Also what is the tds in the tank? The temp may be a bit too low I would try again to match what they came in. Then if you want to change it you can slowly. I would shoot for low 70's


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## Pluke (Jun 17, 2017)

Thanks, I bought them from the LFS. The aquariums there are all roughly 78 degrees. The one molted fine as far as I know, I wasn't there. I have a GH test coming in the mail, ordered one a few hours ago. This is my first time even hearing about TDS.. so that's another tester I will be ordering. I just figured that they would be fine after reading that they were pretty hardy shrimp. I guess I got a little ahead of myself here. Maybe I can change the water and add a little warm water when I do to give them a boost? Don't have any heaters lying around at the moment, unfortunately. Like I said, that'll be coming tomorrow. Hopefully it won't be too late.

I dont know if this is normal, but it looks like two of the shrimp have little air bubbles stuck in their under carriages. Not sure what this means, they're see through so not eggs. Could a bubble from the air stone cause this? Could that harm them?


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

The shrimp don't need heaters, so you don't need to use them. Higher temps mean a higher chance for bacterial infections. Some people also say that warmer temps lead to faster growth which means shorter lifespans.


The Eco-Complete could be causing an issue... although it is an 'inert gravel', it can raise the water parameters until several(?) water changes have been performed.


It's recommended to drip acclimate shrimp using an airline hose and an airline control valve. (or tie the hose in a knot to control flow)


It's hard to say what the issue is without knowing the full parameters, the water you are using and the water they came from.... and food.


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## harley (Jul 24, 2015)

Zoidburg said:


> The shrimp don't need heaters, so you don't need to use them. Higher temps mean a higher chance for bacterial infections. Some people also say that warmer temps lead to faster growth which means shorter lifespans.
> 
> 
> The Eco-Complete could be causing an issue... although it is an 'inert gravel', it can raise the water parameters until several(?) water changes have been performed.
> ...


Sorry to OP for side track but I'm curious about the no heaters thing; even if your house gets pretty cold in the winter? I would like to remove my heater if they don't need it, but my old, drafty house gets cold (we kind of prefer it that way). We don't turn the heat on for the season til temp inside drops to 58°F, then we keep it about 62-64°F. Would Neos be ok with that? And keep breeding? I was under the impression that I should keep them at 72-74°F all the time. Thanks. 

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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

Shrimp can deal with the cold far better than they can the heat!

I live in the desert and I know someone who keeps a "pond" of shrimp and guppies outside. During the cold season (aka winter or mock winter), she keeps a heater in the pond to keep them from freezing. Well, we were finally getting summer temps so she took the heater out... then we had a cold snap. She lost nearly *ALL* the guppies in her pond! The shrimp however? They just continued doing shrimp things...

So yes, low temps are fine! They'll either breed slower or stop breeding in winter, regardless of temperature of the tank (many people report this, even if tank temps are 70°+ ).


I was concerned about temperature fluctuations since my place isn't exactly temperature controlled.... it gets freezing cold in the winter and the heat gets blasted on quickly warming up the place, or in the hot summer, the A/C is off when no one is home but when someone is home, it may be on high throughout the entire evening and potentially even into the next day! If it's a really hot day, it doesn't start to cool down until the following morning!


I've heard of several stories of them being in really cold water and being just fine! Including some shrimp that were shipped to someone who showed up being in practically ice cold water! They were pretty lethargic, but once they warmed up, they resumed normal shrimp duties! No casualties!


If you are really concerned, try setting the heater at around 62-65° F. They can stand cooler temps, though! Otherwise, the only time you *really* need a heater is during cycling, where it's recommended to have the heat around 84-86° F to help the bacteria grow and colonize the filter. Once the cycle is complete, it's not necessary to keep a heater in the tank.


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

Pluke said:


> I got some shrimp over the weekend and they are acting strange. The first day, they were happy as could, eating and swimming all over the place. Next day they slowly fizzled out and are kind of just standing around. Yesterday one shed and the others are still basically just hanging out on the plants, not much movement. Now today apparently one is laying on it's back on the substrate, not dead, but we put it back upright. The shrimp in question had the top of it's shell kind of change color to a bright orange and is also possibly the one who molted. I'm not sure.
> 
> What could cause this? The temperature probably isn't as high as it should be for tropical fish, I'm guessing high 60's. Thermometer and Heater is coming in the mail tomorrow. I read that temperature doesn't bother these shrimp too much. The tank is cycled with with a nitrate level of 5-10, 0 ammonia and nitrite. P.H is 7.8. I don't know what to do. I thought of doing a water change, but I'm not sure. The tank is about a month old now, fish cycled with eco-complete substrate and plants. Was it too early for shrimp? I don't have another place for these guys to live in the mean time. What should I do?


Previous post's indicate the tank was just filled with water approx. 10 day's ago. ?
Too soon for shrimp/fishes.


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## Pluke (Jun 17, 2017)

Zoidburg said:


> The shrimp don't need heaters, so you don't need to use them. Higher temps mean a higher chance for bacterial infections. Some people also say that warmer temps lead to faster growth which means shorter lifespans.
> 
> 
> The Eco-Complete could be causing an issue... although it is an 'inert gravel', it can raise the water parameters until several(?) water changes have been performed.
> ...


Well, the shrimp that was laying on it's back died last night. It was kicking it's swimmerttes but just couldn't move. The other two seem fine, the smaller one who I assume is male, is a busy body always zooming around the tank and in the air stone. The female (from the looks of it) has been hanging out in the anacharis for a while, just grazing, slowly moving around. I have tests coming in the mail tomorrow. I'll be doing the TDS and GH test when I get them and I'll give an update. I'll hold off on putting a heater in there since you say it doesn't matter. The tank was 75 degrees yesterday which was room temp, fluctuates at night. It's been cool this week. 

I have some algae tablets coming for them to eat as well.. they were just eating off the plants and the fluval tropical fish flakes that the fish didn't get. They feasted the first day we got them, eating one huge flake after another. 

I did a partial water change as well. Here's hoping the other two shrimp hold out. Thanks Zoidburg.


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

Good catch @roadmaster!

Pluke, if this is the tank you are referring to...

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/12-tank-journals/1171849-10-gallon-first-planted-tank.html


Then I'm not sure I could say it's fully cycled. Even if it is, I wouldn't put any shrimp in the tank based on that thread. The eco-complete and the Espoma fertilizer could be causing havoc on the tank, as well as the shrimp. You might end up being shocked by what you find out about the water parameters!


For now, I would not recommend getting any more shrimp, and if you can, transfer the shrimp to fresh water that hasn't been in the tank, preferably after drip-acclimating them to the new water. If you want to keep them, get a second tank set up without any fertilizers or buffering substrates (unless you have RO water with a GH+ only minerals), just sand or gravel, sponge filter, get Tetra SafeStart Plus, Marineland Total Care Aquarium Bacteria or Dr Tim's One And Only Nitrifying Bacteria and dose the tank, then acclimate the shrimp to that tank. The bacteria doesn't "instant cycle" the tank, but may help to keep the levels down. Keep an eye on the ammonia, nitrites and nitrates.

Alternatively, the shrimp can live in a bucket or container while you cycle a new tank with Ace Hardware Janitorial Strength Ammonia (fishless cycling) and once cycled and water change performed, acclimate the shrimp to the tank. Otherwise, I'd recommend returning them until you have a tank set up and geared towards shrimp to avoid issues like this.


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## Pluke (Jun 17, 2017)

Zoidburg said:


> Good catch @roadmaster!
> 
> Pluke, if this is the tank you are referring to...
> 
> ...


Definitely not in that tank, haha. I know better than that.. that's an experiment. I'm hesitant to put anything in there just yet. I'd like to fish cycle it, but that tanks another story which is getting a little better since I'm using a different water source. 

Here's a pic of the tank I'm talking about. It's been up and running for a month this coming weekend, it's my gf's. We put 3 White cloud minnows, 3 Harlequin Rasboras and 3 Orange Sakura shrimp in it. One of the rasboras died today.. somethings clearly off even though the ammonia and nitrite are 0 with a nitrate of around 10. Hoping things turn around. The other two shrimp are active and acting normal now and there is no noticeable change in the other fish. Some new food came in the mail today which I'll be taking over for them tomorrow, though I doubt that has anything to do with it. I have a TDS tester as well as GH test coming in the mail tomorrow, that should cover all the tests..

I bought some Mineral rocks as well from Sun Glow.. I'm thinking I'm going to wait to put these in the tank for now, but I'm wondering, how do you feel about them?

EDIT: Meant to ask, why do you suggest not using buffering substrate? I just bought some fluval substrate for plants and shrimp to start a small nano tank. I don't plan to put anything but shrimp in it and that won't be for a couple month at least.. I actually have access to RO water so if I had to I could use that if it matters. I actually made a whole other topic about the new tank asking questions about the substrate.


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

If you have a kh of 2 or higher it will just deplete the buffering capability of the substrate really fast. If you have and can use RO with it that is the way to do it. Then you just add gh to the level needed and the buffering substrate will keep the ph level like it is suppose to. 

Not needed for these kind of shrimp though. Recommend for the more sensitive kind. 


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

Phew! Had a little scare there!  LOL

In general, the mineral stones probably don't do all that much anyway to be of benefit to the shrimp. They degrade extremely slowly, thus not being of much benefit. I have some, but only because they were given to me. I don't currently have any in tanks though. That said, I'm not sure if the Sungrow Mineral Rocks vary from the type that I have. Best way to find out is to toss them into some RO water and compare TDS, GH and KH tests a week apart.


Neos do best on sand or gravel. Generally speaking, they wont breed as well if they are kept on a buffering substrate.


If you set up a shrimp tank using buffering substrate, RO water and GH+ minerals, then added in juvenile Neos, they might thrive better in the tank as compared to moving adults in.


Generally speaking, you either have a tank set up for Neos or Caridinas. If you keep both species/types in one type of parameter, one is likely to out-compete the other. Caridinas grow slower and have longer "gestational periods" than Neos do, so if the Caridinas can "out-compete" the Neos in Caridina parameters, that tells you how well the Neos are "thriving" in those parameters. Some people are able to keep both species in Caridina parameters and have both thriving, too.

Now, when I say "Caridina", I'm talking about crystals, tibees, TB's, taiwan bees, taitibees... those kind of shrimp. Tiger shrimp are also Caridina but can thrive in either parameters! I have YKK's on the lower end of Neo parameters and they are doing great! Honestly, I feel like they are doing better than my Neos are... a lot better... and they were originally bred in Caridina parameters.

And then there are amanos... also Caridina, but "near indestructible". They can live in brackish water to very soft freshwater. Some people have found their amanos 20, 30 or so feet *away* from the tanks in which they inhabited. Unlike many other dwarf shrimp species, they can live for 6-10+ years, and when they do die, it's kind of odd... unless of course the cause of death was making a run for it from the tank! And they weren't found in time...



If you are setting up a tank for Caridinas with a buffering substrate, RO water and GH+ minerals, then by all means, go for it!


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## Pluke (Jun 17, 2017)

Zoidburg said:


> Phew! Had a little scare there!  LOL
> 
> In general, the mineral stones probably don't do all that much anyway to be of benefit to the shrimp. They degrade extremely slowly, thus not being of much benefit. I have some, but only because they were given to me. I don't currently have any in tanks though. That said, I'm not sure if the Sungrow Mineral Rocks vary from the type that I have. Best way to find out is to toss them into some RO water and compare TDS, GH and KH tests a week apart.
> 
> ...


Honestly, I didn't have plans for any specific type of shrimp, I just ended up with the Neos in my gf's tank because I read they were hardy and easy. If they breed, they breed, great. My tank, I was just planning to have a planted shrimp tank to attempt breeding and I hadn't decided what I'm putting in yet. Now I'm going to lean towards Caridinas which I like the looks of anyway, the blues are amazing. I guess I'll just get 5 gallons of RO water tomorrow for my tank when I set it up. My only question now is, do I need the GH+ minerals before I put plants in? I have the plants coming in the mail tomorrow and I don't want to harm them in anyway. I imagine they'd be fine since they're getting nutrients from the substrate, but figure I'll ask anyway.. don't know what I'll do with them in the meantime if I have to wait for the gh+ to come.

..And thanks again guys, I've learned a lot the past few days. So grateful for all the help.


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

It's not recommended to add GH+ until the tank is cycled and you do a large water change to remove excess nitrates. That's when you would add in the GH.


So if you have plants in-cycle, I wouldn't think you'd need to add any. (haven't heard of anyone who has) My SO has a few small plants in a tank he's cycling with Controsoil, although it's not 100% RO water... a fault for not testing strange buckets of water sitting around and potentially an issue with water from LFS... the second tank set up with Controsoil does have 100% RO water in it, but there aren't any plants... lol


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## Pluke (Jun 17, 2017)

Did a water test today on the aquarium the shrimp are in.

PH: 8.0. It went up a little somehow from it's original 7.8. 
KH: 107.4
GH: 196.9
TDS: 260 first time I tested, 256 the second time. 

What do you guys think? I actually did a partial water change yesterday, 30%ish, and added RO water after losing another Rasbora. Today the shrimp are very active, looking normal and the last remaining Rasbora seems content. The three White Clouds in the tank have never shown any kind of distress, but was told they are super hardy anyway. Had another shrimp shed, too.


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