# Another annoying which substrate thread...



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

You can sift out the EC from the sand using a colander. 










Just use Eco-Complete with root tabs and dry ferts if cost is an issue. I wouldn't mix substrates, it'll be more trouble than it's worth.


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## Trace63 (Dec 23, 2007)

I just did some research. I think what Im going to do since the SMS is such a bigger grain than eco and ADA which technically I would imagine would be bad for stem plants and such is... (drumroll)

Filter out as much sand as possible from what I have. Buy 2 bags of Eco and 1 bag of Aqua Soil. Keep the existing Eco on the bottom followed by the smaller grained aquasoil, followed by two bags of Eco. Yay or Nay?


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Don't mix them.


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## Trace63 (Dec 23, 2007)

por que amigo


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

They will mix over time.
I like Black flourite over EC.
They also have a nice sand and normal size.
I like it better aesthetically and as far as planting stems etc in it than EC.
I have a lot of experience with all of these sediments.

Only bad trade off, you need to rinse Black flourite.
I do not mind vs paying for water and getting less sediment with EC.
ADA As needs no rinsing, is the most consistent of all of them and is about the same cost as Flourite.


Regards, 
tom Barr


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## Trace63 (Dec 23, 2007)

Ok so I think I made a decision. I need about 3" in a 55 gallon right? I figured Ill try to sift out as much Eco as possible that I already have in my tank. If im lucky, that will give me just enough to coat the bottom. Then Ill get 2 bags of Aquasoil, which are 26 or so if Im not mistaken. Ill also get 1 bag of the same aquasoil but in powder. Three 9 liter bags + w/e Eco I have now should do the trick and give me ~ 3 inches. That will run me about $80-90 which isnt THAT bad. Now as for the three bags, does the powder go on top or on the bottom?


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## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

I wouldn't mix substrates either. Why not just use the Eco you already have and buy more of it to get the 3" depth your after? Seems like the cheapest and easiest solution.


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## Trace63 (Dec 23, 2007)

Yeah but from what Ive read around here aquasoil is prime. Plus people keep saying dont mix yet they never state WHY? I really don't see what hard could be done from mixing 3 bags of AS with like 1 lb or w/e I can scrape up of the Eco I have in my tank now.


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

It'll mix. And it'll look like crap. Don't tell me it won't mix...it will.

Forget powder-type AquaSoil too. It's more trouble than you want.

Either spend the money and use all ADA AquaSoil from the start, or don't...it's pretty simple.


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## gotcheaprice (Aug 29, 2007)

Yep, don't mix them. Substrates look different and just plain don't look good together. If you want, continue with EC, or just redo it with AS, but don't mix them. If you want to, go ahead, but don't say we didn't tell you. 
And won't the smaller grain substrate end up on the bottom anyways?
But if you honestly like the looks, go right ahead.


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## hojimoe (Dec 10, 2007)

i'd suggest SMS but that's just me, I use it... I have some flourite underneath it though.... again, that's me... I have 1-1.5" of flourite below 3.5-4" of SMS..very deep base I know ...I use dry ferts and DIY CO2, high lighting...plants growing like weeds

the grain size doesn't really matter, you stick the stems in deep and they root, and root hard, I just moved a few plants around earlier today and it took some actual force to get them out, not just a tug and their out like with pebble gravel


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## fshfanatic (Apr 20, 2006)

Unless you care what the substrate looks like THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH MIXING DIFFERENT TYPES.


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## Trace63 (Dec 23, 2007)

I just thought since Eco and AS are black you wouldnt be able to tell the difference. 

But, I have made a final decision. Save the Eco that I have now for later, just in case. Then to get a 3" depth I should need (bottom layer) power sand, but which one? And then on top of that 3 bags of regular Aquasoil.
Sounds good?


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

as isnt black it is brown.....


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## Trace63 (Dec 23, 2007)

from the pictures ive seen its black


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

ADA AquaSoil Amazonia is a dark brown. Not black.


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## Trace63 (Dec 23, 2007)

Hmmm, I see....


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## spypet (Sep 15, 2006)

Trace63 said:


> I just did some research. I think what Im going to do since the SMS is such a bigger grain than eco and ADA which technically I would imagine would be bad for stem plants and such is.


Trace, just add more ECO, and the sand will eventually settle at the
bottom out of sight, so there may be no need to strain it out IMHO.

SMS is not bigger than ECO or ADA.

SMS are dark gray discs with a few burnt red specs 2-3mm
ADA are earthy dark gray balls 3-4mm each.
ECO is Black, and heavy, with grains that vary from .5mm dust
through 6mm grains, with the occasional large 12mm rock.

*SMS, ADA, ECO *










since you are in NY, get your SMS from this cheap shipping source;

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/swap-n-shop/55196-fs-soilmaster-select-charcoal.html


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## fshfanatic (Apr 20, 2006)

bsmith782 said:


> as isnt black it is brown.....


My ADA Aqua Soil is black. At least it looks black to me.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

fshfanatic said:


> My ADA Aqua Soil is black. At least it looks black to me.


maybe it varies, i dont know mine sure is brown...


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## NATURE AQUARIUM (Dec 16, 2007)

Use SMS I am going to get a bag for my new tank tomorrow!!!!!!!!!


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## Trace63 (Dec 23, 2007)

Ahhhhhh, so much advice. I dont know what to do. Ok lets start 1 by 1. Best way I guess.

If I simply add more Eco I dont think that the sand would settle to the bottom. I think I wouldnt have a problem doing that if the sand was black, but its white, and it looks ugly. So now on to each substrate.

SMS - Cheapest one out of the three. Great grain size. Screws with your water a little bit. Holds nutrients well.

Eco - Nice deep black color. Average price. To fill up a 55 it would take me ~ 3 bags which is 60 bucks. Already has good nutrients and the grain sizes vary making it good for planting.

Aquasoil - most expensive at close to $30 per bag. However, for some reason its the most popular, must be a reason I guess. Some rumors of it being really dusty. BUT its also packed with nutrients.

Did I miss anything with these three? Im still so confused about what to get. Like something is pushing me towards AS since its so popular, but then Eco technically is a good sub. too and its cheaper. SMS is even cheaper but the fact that its not MADE for aquariums seems to be turning me off.


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## outcast (Jul 4, 2007)

i mixed my substrates, mixed in black and green aquarium rocks with plant success flora base. I kinda like the green black and brown blended together


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## Trace63 (Dec 23, 2007)

Well THAT Im not doing, lol.


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## outcast (Jul 4, 2007)

i bought the deep green and black rocks before goign for a planted tank  when i got the bag of flora base, it turned out to be not quite enough, needed a bit more, so then i mixed everything. next time i'll be sticking to a uniform substrate though


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## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

Trace63, very sadly, differing and conflicting advice is not uncommon in this hobby. I share your pain and find it a real turn off. But what you have to consider is the source. Take someone like Tom Barr. What does he recommend and what does he base it on? Tom has been growing plants in different types of media for years, so IMHO he can speak from first hand experience re: which substrate grows the best plants. No offense to other members, but I am not going to go by one person who says, I tried eco and it grows plants great. Great is fine, but compared to what? If that is all they tried, then forget it. If someone says, I grew the exact same plants in ADA Aquasoil, plain dirt, kitty litter, fluorite, eco-complete, under the same lighting, fert dosing, C02 rate, etc., and found that ADA Aquasoil grew plants better than the rest, then that is who I am going to believe, not a one hit wonder!

Having said that, Tom highly recommends ADA Aquasoil over everything else and for a more affordable substrate recommends Seachem Fluorite and Seachem Onyx Sand. He has tried both Eco-Complete and Fluorite and recommends Fluorite over Eco-Complete.

In reality, you can grow plants in all kinds of substrates, even kitty litter. The fact is that some substrates tend to give better results than others.


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## Trace63 (Dec 23, 2007)

You are def. right. Hmmm...

Ok, I never even thought of Fluorite before this. So now, Im stuck between Aquasoil and fluorite. I will be back after further investigation.


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## Trace63 (Dec 23, 2007)

After reading up a little bit, Fluorite doesn't seem like its going to do the trick for me. It gets a lot of thumbs up, but on the flipside numerous people complain about it too. Aquasoil on the other hand gets thumbs up all around EXCEPT for one thing. Its dusty. That and the price seem to be holding me back. Shipped to NY it would come out to ~ 110 for just 3 bags.  

I dont know guys. I dont want SMS or flourite. Eco is cheaper and I can get it locally and its not dusty. But then aquasoil is, excuse my language, the sh1t, so I kind of want that. I just wish I could get over the dustiness and high price.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

get the as soil WILL NOT be dissapointed and you WILL have phenominal growth!

dustyness really isnt an issue with as II, my tank cleared in a day with a weak eclipse system 12 hood.


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## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

bsmith782 said:


> get the as soil WILL NOT be dissapointed and you WILL have phenominal growth!
> 
> *dustyness really isnt an issue with as II*, my tank cleared in a day with a weak eclipse system 12 hood.


Agreed. I set up a 15 gallon high test tank with ADA Aquasoil II with Aquaclear 150 HOB filter. I used Seachem Purigen filter insert and any minimal cloudiness cleared up within a few days. The cloudiness was not even as bad as what I saw in a 10 gallon tank with the same filter using fluorite that I had rinsed the Cr*p out of before placing in the tank. 

The only thing you may not like about ADA Aquaosoil is that it is the suggested 1 month wait to place fish in the tank and the fact that you will have to do frequent water changes for the first month as both ADA Aquasoil original and II are know to initially leech heavy levels of ammonia into the water column.


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## Trace63 (Dec 23, 2007)

That kinda sucks since I already have some fish in my tank. 

Water changes arent a problem. Even now I might do them twice a week just to get some fresh water in there.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

in the tank i have with as II, what i did was put purigen in the filter and dosed seachems stability heavily for a month or so...... no rise in ammonia whatsoever!


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## Trace63 (Dec 23, 2007)

Well I dropped this one guy an offer of $90 shipped for four bags of Eco. I was pretty set on AS these past few hours until I got the message that he accepts. Should I snatch the deal or let it pass?


Im finding it hard to justify paying over $110 JUST for substrate. Plus with this deal, I could even just use 3 bags and have I left over. Flourite is a no go for me. SMS I dont seem to find right because its not MADE for aquariums. (yes anal) I guess I still have to think about it. :icon_sad:

Plus the way Im looking at it, even though I might not have the BEST substrate, I will have 4 wpg ( :icon_eek , a 2213 AND a 2217 running (2213 used primarily for bacteria growth), pressurized CO2 and I will also be investing in dry ferts from Rex.



*Aquasoil or Eco*
***Mind blows up***


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## spypet (Sep 15, 2006)

grab the ECO deal, and move on already.
thankfully i don't share your bias on SMS,
thus paid a 1/4 what you did for substrate.


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## Trace63 (Dec 23, 2007)

Hey, you can't blame me for trying to do well for my tank here. :/


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## spypet (Sep 15, 2006)

LOL, if you agonize this much over substrate,
I'm going to dread your inevitable threads 
choosing Lighting and Compressed Co2 :hihi:


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## Trace63 (Dec 23, 2007)

AHA! I got you beat on that one. I've already decided Im getting Rex's regulator and I already have a 5lb tank shipping as we speak.

And lighting I just figured out on my own. Im changing my bulbs to 2x9325k in the back row left on for ~ 5-6 hours and 2x6,700 OR 7,800 in the front for 10-12 hours. Only thing left is to decide between 7,800 and 6,700


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

spypet said:


> LOL, if you agonize this much over substrate,
> I'm going to dread your inevitable threads
> choosing Lighting and Compressed Co2 :hihi:


Nah... it is going to be the algae threads from the 12 hour photo period... 

JK


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## Trace63 (Dec 23, 2007)

Well I keep my 10,000k's x2 on now for 12 hours + in a crappily stocked plant tank and get minimal algae. Whatever I do get my bristlenose plecos take care of that. 

Now if only they would stop uprooting my stem plants...


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## fshfanatic (Apr 20, 2006)

you just need to pick one and hit the ground running. You cant go wrong with any of your options. 

I would hate to see you trying to decide on some "real life" dilemma.


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## Trace63 (Dec 23, 2007)

fshfanatic said:


> you just need to pick one and hit the ground running. You cant go wrong with any of your options.
> 
> I would hate to see you trying to decide on some "real life" dilemma.



hahaha 
*Touché*


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## fshfanatic (Apr 20, 2006)

Just for ****es and giggles, I will let you in on a little secret.

I am pulling out 2 yr old ADA AS and replacing it with SMS charcoal. I have used Both in the past and have decided to go with SMS.


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## Trace63 (Dec 23, 2007)

Quite honestly, I thank you for your re-assurance. 



I DO have an empty 10 gallon laying around....hmmmm


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## spypet (Sep 15, 2006)

fshfanatic said:


> I have used Both in the past and have decided to go with SMS.


shush







don't tell him that!
then there will be less of that
discontinued SMS left to buy!


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## fshfanatic (Apr 20, 2006)

How much do you need? The local Lesco here has it coming out of their ears..


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## spypet (Sep 15, 2006)

Thanx, I'm all set. I got 2 bags in the closet
just waiting for my next big tank purchase.


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## fshfanatic (Apr 20, 2006)

well there you go. What color is it?


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## Trace63 (Dec 23, 2007)

its discontinued?! ****e, Im not sure if Ill ever use it but Im heading over to the nearest location and buying two bags


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## spypet (Sep 15, 2006)

LOL, fshfanatic just messin with you.
get the ECO and don't worry about
some future tank needs. they'll always
be other substrates and good deals.


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## Trace63 (Dec 23, 2007)

I know thanks guys.

Ugh, I dont know if its the site or what but my local stores SAY they have it but when I check inventory its not there.


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