# Co2art dual stage regulator - working pressure fluctuation



## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

roostertech said:


> Co2 noob here, is the working pressure suppose to fluctuate when solenoid is open/closed? It seems that my working pressure drop by 5psi when I open up the solenoid and slowly recover back up when it is closed. I'm only running 1bubble/3sec.


not normally, or not that much.. That IS it's job.. to regulate output pressure.. 

BUT as long is it is short, and output stabilizes, I don't see it as critical.


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## lksdrinker (Feb 12, 2014)

Sounds like there is a leak somewhere in the system.


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## roostertech (Oct 27, 2015)

lksdrinker said:


> Sounds like there is a leak somewhere in the system.


As in a leak that cause more co2 to flow than it should? Would this be before or after the solenoid?


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

5 psi is within the acceptable range. Normal is probably just a couple psi. If if keeps going up, (beyond the 5 psi) that's bad.


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## lksdrinker (Feb 12, 2014)

roostertech said:


> As in a leak that cause more co2 to flow than it should? Would this be before or after the solenoid?


Since it seems to stay put when the solenoid is closed; I'd guess theres a leak after it somewhere. 



oldpunk78 said:


> 5 psi is within the acceptable range. Normal is probably just a couple psi. If if keeps going up, (beyond the 5 psi) that's bad.


Well I'd trust your opinion on this more than my own; but this is surprising to hear. I'd be concerned about any fluctuation in pressure.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

lksdrinker said:


> Since it seems to stay put when the solenoid is closed; I'd guess theres a leak after it somewhere.


you do realize after the solenoid it is an open system....It will be at zero pressure in a short time..


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

lksdrinker said:


> Well I'd trust your opinion on this more than my own; but this is surprising to hear. I'd be concerned about any fluctuation in pressure.


There's a technical term that I can't remember, but it has to do with the system flowing and then stopping. 

It's like say you adjust your regulator to 20 psi with the system closed and no gas is flowing through it. It should stay right there. If it doesn't, that means there's an internal leak letting the pressure climb. This is something we do to test a used regulator before we say it's ok to use. 

Now, say that regulator that we had at 20psi has the outlet opened. The psi is going to drop down a little because gas is now flowing through the system, albeit very slowly for purposes. If you removed the post body and opened it, you'd see it drop even more. What's important is that it returns to where it was when the system is closed again. We don't want to see different numbers every time the system is started again. That's bad. 

Generally, when the psi climbing is a problem, it's climbing a lot more than its supposed to. Or, it keeps climbing to the point where you blow a gauge. I've had to toss out $1000 regulators for this reason.


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## roostertech (Oct 27, 2015)

So I've been observing this for a few days and the same pattern repeat.

Yesterday at 10AM I adjust my working pressure to 44PSI, with solenoid OPEN

Today at 10AM, with solenoid OPEN, my working pressure is 36PSI

And if I turn up the pressure, it would drop back down again the next day. I'm already near the maximum possible dial position.

I also observed that the working pressure "jump" when adjusting, and later "settle" back down

https://goo.gl/photos/j1NbTBQSVnphh9Z58

I'll try to get in touch with co2art customer service. This regulator suppose to be able to hold 72 psi


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

You're supposed to adjust the working pressure where you want with the solenoid closed. 

Let the system depressurize. 

Start over. Adjust the working pressure with the solenoid closed.

Report back.


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## roostertech (Oct 27, 2015)

oldpunk78 said:


> You're supposed to adjust the working pressure where you want with the solenoid closed.
> 
> Let the system depressurize.
> 
> ...


OK Will do,

So how should I read working pressure when solenoid is open? Does it indicate any problem if it change?

I noticed that when my working pressure changed (while solenoid is open), my bubble count also dropped.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

Ya, if the pressure in the system rises, the bubble count (or flow through the system) will increase. The same is true if the pressure drops. The flow will slow. 

What I'm guessing is going to happen when re-adjust the regulator is this:

You'll adjust it to like 40 psi. You'll energize the solenoid and it'll drop down a little to like 35ish. That's fine... As long as it keeps doing this over and over again. 

What you want to be on the look out for is change beyond this. It needs to be consistent. If you look at from day to day the psi is different than it was the day before, something is wrong.


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Check valve resistance can also influence the working pressure and bubble rates. Had an Aquatek reg with JBJ style bubble counter, built in check valve, then an additional check valve up near the reactor.

The bubble rate and working pressure would slowly decrease over a period of a minute or so, until enough pressure built up to crack the second check valve. Then both would shoot up for a bit, 30 seconds or so, until pressure dropped and the second check valve closed again.

At least I think that Im correctly understanding what was happening. The fluctuation was consistent, so I never really worried about it.

Realize this isnt the exact problem OP describes, just sharing some possibly relevant food for thought...


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## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

Lks mentioned it a couple times, but I'll also suggest that a leak test is *never* a bad idea.


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## youthcom (May 23, 2015)

I'm gonna have to do that with mine. Also a Co2art from the recent sale but with a different solenoid & needle valve then pictured here. I tried setting at 30 & it fluctuated up & down from that almost the same amount, but now it seems to be down more to about 22 while closed.


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## lksdrinker (Feb 12, 2014)

jeffkrol said:


> you do realize after the solenoid it is an open system....It will be at zero pressure in a short time..


Sure.....but that doesn't mean the system is working as intended. Especially now that I see those push connect fittings.




roostertech said:


> So I've been observing this for a few days and the same pattern repeat.
> 
> Yesterday at 10AM I adjust my working pressure to 44PSI, with solenoid OPEN
> 
> ...


Besides the other advice given about how/when to set the working pressure; have you checked for leaks? Especially at the push connect fitting I see there? I ended up scraping those types of fitting altogether as they seemed to constantly leak after a while.


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## jkrohn (Sep 17, 2015)

Did you ever get anywhere with this?


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## roostertech (Oct 27, 2015)

So I reran the leak test on co2art site and found that with BOTH solenoid closed and tank valve closed, the pressure dropped about 100psi/hour (it suppose to hold per co2art instruction). But I could not find any leak by using soapy solution. I tried to reattach/tighten the connection and still got the same result. I'm trying to contact co2art support to see what to do next. 

Will update on the progress.


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## jkrohn (Sep 17, 2015)

Any update on this?


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## voyetra8 (Sep 24, 2010)

roostertech said:


> So I've been observing this for a few days and the same pattern repeat.
> 
> Yesterday at 10AM I adjust my working pressure to 44PSI, with solenoid OPEN
> 
> ...


Just as an FYI, I'm having the same issue with mine... exact same regulator. I've gone so far as to submerge my bubble counter and inline diffuser completely underwater to check for leaks... and there are none. 

I've brushed everything with soapy water, and can't find a leak anywhere. Tank to reg. Dials. Needle valve. Around edge of the solenoid. Check valve.... nothing is leaking. 

It seems every day I have to increase the working pressure so that the system pushes through my diffuser again. Within 3 days, the knob is at the end of its throw, and I can't go any further.... 

I wrote to Co2art and they said it sounded like I have a leak... not sure what to do at this point. :\


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## jkrohn (Sep 17, 2015)

voyetra8 said:


> Just as an FYI, I'm having the same issue with mine... exact same regulator. I've gone so far as to submerge my bubble counter and inline diffuser completely underwater to check for leaks... and there are none.
> 
> I've brushed everything with soapy water, and can't find a leak anywhere. Tank to reg. Dials. Needle valve. Around edge of the solenoid. Check valve.... nothing is leaking.
> 
> ...


I'm having the exact same issue. I changed my setup to just use an aquatek 3 in 1 diffuser, so the only thing *not* in my tank is CO2 tubing from the push connect which goes all the way into the tank.

It takes a few days for me to lose pressure (say from 40 PSI with the solenoid off to 30 PSI)


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## lksdrinker (Feb 12, 2014)

jkrohn said:


> I'm having the exact same issue. I changed my setup to just use an aquatek 3 in 1 diffuser, so the only thing *not* in my tank is CO2 tubing from the push connect which goes all the way into the tank.
> 
> It takes a few days for me to lose pressure (say from 40 PSI with the solenoid off to 30 PSI)



I just got rid of any and all push connect fittings that I had been using on my co2 manifold as they were constantly the source of a small leak.


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Try using the bubble solution made for kids to play with. For me it's easier to tell than using soapy water, especially for detecting small leaks.


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## roostertech (Oct 27, 2015)

voyetra8 said:


> Just as an FYI, I'm having the same issue with mine... exact same regulator. I've gone so far as to submerge my bubble counter and inline diffuser completely underwater to check for leaks... and there are none.
> 
> I've brushed everything with soapy water, and can't find a leak anywhere. Tank to reg. Dials. Needle valve. Around edge of the solenoid. Check valve.... nothing is leaking.
> 
> ...


I went contacted co2art customer service and confirmed that I have some sort of leak. They are sending me a replacement. You get very fast responses over skype during their business hour.


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## voyetra8 (Sep 24, 2010)

roostertech said:


> I went contacted co2art customer service and confirmed that I have some sort of leak. They are sending me a replacement. You get very fast responses over skype during their business hour.


I've been in contact, and we're working out sending a replacement as well. Support has been good so far... bummed that I don't have a working regulator right now, however.


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## roostertech (Oct 27, 2015)

voyetra8 said:


> I've been in contact, and we're working out sending a replacement as well. Support has been good so far... bummed that I don't have a working regulator right now, however.


I'm still using mine while waiting for replacement to arrive. I can't get more than 30psi working pressure while solenoid is open even at max setting though.


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## bassbuster23 (Jan 7, 2008)

I have had similar issues with mine also.....sent the regulators yesterday to their California office for testing. Luckily, I had my citric acid/baking soda system put up, so at least I'm able to get some co2 into the tank.

I can say in my situation, CO2Art has had outstanding customer support with me.


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## youthcom (May 23, 2015)

bassbuster23 said:


> I have had similar issues with mine also.....sent the regulators yesterday to their California office for testing. Luckily, I had my citric acid/baking soda system put up, so at least I'm able to get some co2 into the tank.
> 
> I can say in my situation, CO2Art has had outstanding customer support with me.


Nice won't have to deal with shipping to UK. I got a Co2Art too during the Black Friday/Cyber Monday sale & have been noticing the similiar issues with working pressure gradually decreasing. Have not been able to detect any leaks. I have the one with their custom machined needle valve with the cylindrical solenoid. Currently monitoring it & yesterday with the solenoid shut it would go back to to 44PSI & while cycling it today it settles at 38.


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## roostertech (Oct 27, 2015)

If you want to bring your working pressure back up you can "reset" the regulator by disconnecting it and letting all the co2 out and then reconnect. But then it would slowly drift downward again.


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## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

It sounds like the jury has finally been starting to come back regarding the quality of CO2Art equipment. On a high note, it appears that their customer service is on the ball, but their gear may not be in the in-between range we'd been hoping for. Keep the updates coming, so we can get a clearer idea of what's going on here.


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## jkrohn (Sep 17, 2015)

I have another one of their regulators (Advance Professional Aquarium CO2 Dual Stage Regulator and Solenoid Ma | CO2Art.co.uk) that is, and has been since day one, 100% rock solid. It was the fact that this one performed so well that made my go with their lower end model during black friday.

I ordered two regulators and both have this same issue. They are sending me another one, but I don't have terribly high hopes given the number of people having issues with this regulator.


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## voyetra8 (Sep 24, 2010)

jkrohn said:


> I ordered two regulators and both have this same issue. They are sending me another one, but I don't have terribly high hopes given the number of people having issues with this regulator.


Ugh. This isn't exactly confidence inspiring. 

Do you think I should just ask for a refund and find another unit?


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## voyetra8 (Sep 24, 2010)

roostertech said:


> I'm still using mine while waiting for replacement to arrive. I can't get more than 30psi working pressure while solenoid is open even at max setting though.


Hey, 

Just wanted to follow-up on this, as I have the same issue with my CO2art regulator and have been working with them to resolve. 

I have been in contact with customer service, and have even gone so far as to send them videos of my system showing that I have no leaks. 

Rather than send me a replacement, or give me a refund, they have asked me to send my unit to their offices in California, where they plan to "inspect" the regulator. 

I told them I would rather just have a refund at this point, because I want to replace the unit immediately, but I was told that I needed to send it back for inspection. 

I was told "it will only take a couple of days", but I'm pretty bummed, considering: 

1. The regulator has not worked properly since day 1. 
2. I've been in constant contact with support. 
3. I now have to pay to insure and ship the unit for inspection. 
4. My hi-tech tank will be without CO2 for an unknown amount of time.


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## jkrohn (Sep 17, 2015)

I hooked up the second of the two regulators I bought and while it has the working pressure drop, it is at least consistent.

When the solenoid is off overnight I come back to 37 PSI in the morning. When the solenoid turns on it drops to 24 PSI and stays there. When the solenoid goes off it pops up to 34 PSI and climbs to 37 PSI where it stays until I turn the solenoid back on.

It has been stable in this pattern for four days now. I'm going to continue to track this one while I wait for the replacement I am being sent for the other one.


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## roostertech (Oct 27, 2015)

voyetra8 said:


> Hey,
> 
> Just wanted to follow-up on this, as I have the same issue with my CO2art regulator and have been working with them to resolve.
> 
> ...


 @co2art @miroslav-svec

Really? My arrangement was to ship it to Anderson after I received the replacement. My last contact was 12/31 so it should arrive any day now I hope. The currently one can only get to 30psi working pressure at max setting.


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## voyetra8 (Sep 24, 2010)

roostertech said:


> @co2art @miroslav-svec
> 
> Really? My arrangement was to ship it to Anderson after I received the replacement. My last contact was 12/31 so it should arrive any day now I hope. The currently one can only get to 30psi working pressure at max setting.





> Really? My arrangement was to ship it to Anderson after I received the replacement. My last contact was 12/31 so it should arrive any day now I hope. The currently one can only get to 30psi working pressure at max setting.


Yeah, really. It's a bummer, and not exactly confidence inspiring. 

I think I may have the same issue as you... if I dial in the system, it will work OK for one day/night cycle. 

However, once the solenoid opens the next morning, the working pressure will have dropped super low (to like 5psi) until I increase the working pressure back to 30psi. Then I have to dial in the needle valve again... and it will run "OK" for the rest of the day. 

The next morning, the solenoid opens, and once again, the working pressure will now be about 5psi. I repeat the process of increasing the working pressure back to 30psi.... Then I have to dial the needle valve in again.... 

So, by day 4, I "run out" of working pressure that can be added, as the blue knob no longer has any throw left. 

Does this sound similar to your issue?


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## roostertech (Oct 27, 2015)

voyetra8 said:


> Yeah, really. It's a bummer, and not exactly confidence inspiring.
> 
> I think I may have the same issue as you... if I dial in the system, it will work OK for one day/night cycle.
> 
> ...


Yep this is exactly my issue. Now at max out knob, mine hold at about 25psi when solenoid is open. If I back down the knob and then up it again then it will jump back to 40+ but will eventually drop down.

Did you do the leak check in their youtube video? Mine was losing 100psi every hour so it was very clear. Also did you directly contact support through skype?


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## voyetra8 (Sep 24, 2010)

roostertech said:


> Yep this is exactly my issue. Now at max out knob, mine hold at about 25psi when solenoid is open. If I back down the knob and then up it again then it will jump back to 40+ but will eventually drop down.
> 
> Did you do the leak check in their youtube video? Mine was losing 100psi every hour so it was very clear. Also did you directly contact support through skype?


No, they didn't ask me to do that test... once I sent the video showing there were no leaks in the system, they asked me to send it in for inspection. 

I've been dealing with Miroslav through email support... haven't tried Skype. 

Regulator went out today, should make it to them by Friday. Which means I probably won't have CO2 for two weeks. 

So much for my UG carpet.


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## bassbuster23 (Jan 7, 2008)

I have had very similar issues as you guys.....with 2 regulators, the original and the replacement. One was the fluctuation in pressure while the solenoid is off, and the replacement regulator had the dropping pressure issue. I have also been in constant contact with customer support and I shipped both regulators to their California office, which was delivered this past Saturday. I'm awaiting their test results to see what the next step is. Luckily, I still had my citric acid/baking soda co2 system stashed away in my closet......so, I'm able to get some co2 into the tank. 

Hopefully, this won't be a long, drawn out process for any of us......& fingers crossed that it'll all work out to the best for everybody.


*UPDATE* - I just received an email from Miroslev at the UK office. He believes they have found the issue with this faulty batch of regulators. He is sending me a new one. Maybe they have the issue straightened out. I will say again......even though this situation has been unfortunate for not only myself but quite a few others, the customer service at CO2Art has been top-notch! Some of the very best I've ever dealt with! Wishing all of you guys the best of luck in getting your issues resolved as well!


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## voyetra8 (Sep 24, 2010)

bassbuster23 said:


> I just received an email from Miroslev at the UK office. He believes they have found the issue with this faulty batch of regulators. He is sending me a new one. Maybe they have the issue straightened out. I will say again......even though this situation has been unfortunate for not only myself but quite a few others, the customer service at CO2Art has been top-notch! Some of the very best I've ever dealt with! Wishing all of you guys the best of luck in getting your issues resolved as well!


I just received the same email. They are sending me a new unit... 

I'm glad they identified the issue and know what to look for when sending out new orders. 

I'll report back when the replacement arrives!


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## bassbuster23 (Jan 7, 2008)

voyetra8 said:


> I just received the same email. They are sending me a new unit...
> 
> I'm glad they identified the issue and know what to look for when sending out new orders.
> 
> I'll report back when the replacement arrives!


I'll update everyone on mine also.


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## roostertech (Oct 27, 2015)

bassbuster23 said:


> I have had very similar issues as you guys.....with 2 regulators, the original and the replacement. One was the fluctuation in pressure while the solenoid is off, and the replacement regulator had the dropping pressure issue. I have also been in constant contact with customer support and I shipped both regulators to their California office, which was delivered this past Saturday. I'm awaiting their test results to see what the next step is. Luckily, I still had my citric acid/baking soda co2 system stashed away in my closet......so, I'm able to get some co2 into the tank.
> 
> Hopefully, this won't be a long, drawn out process for any of us......& fingers crossed that it'll all work out to the best for everybody.
> 
> ...


Oh, so most likely the one that already in flight to me would likely to have the same issue. Hopefully not. It should get here any day now (sent 12/31).


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## bassbuster23 (Jan 7, 2008)

@roostertech.....it is possible that you have a faulty one on the way. Might not hurt to touch base with them at the UK office to see what they can tell you regarding that.


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## youthcom (May 23, 2015)

What has been the max pressure you've all been able to get with your CO2art regulators? With the knob bottomed out mine only goes to 42-44 PSI. Previously I did try to have it set at 30PSI, but also noticed it declining as time went by. Eventually it went to around 15PSI & I couldn't detect any leaks with soapy water. Even if there was a leak I don't see how it would affect the regulator in this way. I would be very interested in what the defect they discovered is.

Also wonder what the difference is between their nearly twice as expensive model which has a much longer body.


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## roostertech (Oct 27, 2015)

youthcom said:


> What has been the max pressure you've all been able to get with your CO2art regulators? With the knob bottomed out mine only goes to 42-44 PSI. Previously I did try to have it set at 30PSI, but also noticed it declining as time went by. Eventually it went to around 15PSI & I couldn't detect any leaks with soapy water. Even if there was a leak I don't see how it would affect the regulator in this way. I would be very interested in what the defect they discovered is.
> 
> Also wonder what the difference is between their nearly twice as expensive model which has a much longer body.


If you "reset" the regulator by disconnect, let out all the air, reconnect, you can get up into the 60-70+psi easily. This regulator is capable of 5 bar (72psi) and can drive multiple tanks.

I think the nicer version have better solenoid, needle valve, nicer knob. I'm not sure if there is any difference in the regulator body itself.


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## youthcom (May 23, 2015)

roostertech said:


> If you "reset" the regulator by disconnect, let out all the air, reconnect, you can get up into the 60-70+psi easily. This regulator is capable of 5 bar (72psi) and can drive multiple tanks.
> 
> I think the nicer version have better solenoid, needle valve, nicer knob. I'm not sure if there is any difference in the regulator body itself.


I just tried that & saw it jump to 80 PSI with the working pressure fully open, but after opening the needle valve to 1-3bps the pressure fell to 46 PSI.


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## roostertech (Oct 27, 2015)

Just received my replacement regulator last night. Couple things that I noticed:

The air filter is now much deeper in the nut
The new washer is at least twice as thick as the old one
Stem and post body is not screwed all the way in? The last one only minimal amount of thread is exposed

I ran the leak test over night, seems ok, will test working pressure over the next week.


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## TJSupy (Dec 10, 2015)

I'd like to know if your new regulator works properly for you. I'm wanting to switch to pressurized co2 and have looked at the dual regulator by co2art but want to make sure the issues are fixed before I order one.

Also do you use a needle valve or just the smc valve?


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## roostertech (Oct 27, 2015)

TJSupy said:


> I'd like to know if your new regulator works properly for you. I'm wanting to switch to pressurized co2 and have looked at the dual regulator by co2art but want to make sure the issues are fixed before I order one.
> 
> Also do you use a needle valve or just the smc valve?


I think the replacement unit I received was shipped out before they figured out the issue. The new one has been dropping about 2-3psi of working pressure every day.

I don't use any other needle valve. The smc needle valve that come with the regulator can hold the bubble count well and easy to adjust. But the dropping working pressure mess with that.

I'll get in touch with support again and update.


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## lksdrinker (Feb 12, 2014)

roostertech said:


> I think the replacement unit I received was shipped out before they figured out the issue. The new one has been dropping about 2-3psi of working pressure every day.
> 
> 
> I'll get in touch with support again and update.


Man that sucks. I hope you're assessment about the timing is correct.


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## roostertech (Oct 27, 2015)

lksdrinker said:


> Man that sucks. I hope you're assessment about the timing is correct.


I check working pressure every night after solenoid has been off for a few hours. Here are the reading for the past three nights.


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## jkrohn (Sep 17, 2015)

roostertech said:


> I check working pressure every night after solenoid has been off for a few hours. Here are the reading for the past three nights.


Well that certainly doesn't look promising


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## lksdrinker (Feb 12, 2014)

roostertech said:


> I check working pressure every night after solenoid has been off for a few hours. Here are the reading for the past three nights.


Is that the original one with the problem or the replacement you received?


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## exv152 (Jun 8, 2009)

Does the position of the WP knob also drift, or change position ?


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

Kind of surprised that there is so many issues. I had had mine for a while with really good results. Nothing like what you guys describe. If I touch it its months later and working pressure might drop .5psi.

I figure it's due to the push connection or somewhere might be the tiniest of leaks. 

Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk


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## lksdrinker (Feb 12, 2014)

exv152 said:


> Does the position of the WP knob also drift, or change position ?


Interesting question/idea. Hadn't even thought of that but now I too wonder if the knob moves at all. If so its potentially a much easier fix and at least would not be an internal leak/problem.


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## jkrohn (Sep 17, 2015)

lksdrinker said:


> Interesting question/idea. Hadn't even thought of that but now I too wonder if the knob moves at all. If so its potentially a much easier fix and at least would not be an internal leak/problem.


If the knob moved you could simply move it back with no issue. To get the working pressure back up you have to open the working pressure a little more than it was previously. Pretty soon it is all the way "open" and you can't get over 30 PSI with the solenoid closed.

Disconnecting everything, closing it fully then opening it again starts the whole cycle anew.


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## lksdrinker (Feb 12, 2014)

jkrohn said:


> If the knob moved you could simply move it back with no issue. To get the working pressure back up you have to open the working pressure a little more than it was previously. Pretty soon it is all the way "open" and you can't get over 30 PSI with the solenoid closed.
> 
> Disconnecting everything, closing it fully then opening it again starts the whole cycle anew.



Right. _if_ the knob moved you could simply move it back. But, since I dont have this and am not experiencing this problem I'm not sure if that knob is moving? There could potentially be more than one issue you guys are dealing with here and this seemed like a potential that no one had brought up yet. I take it the knob is staying put and you've all confirmed that?

From everything said by the people experiencing this, sounds like this thing is just junk right out of the box. Its all well and good that the customer service is listening to the problems. But actions speak louder than words and it seems like the only action is to replace one broken item with another! Hopefully for everyone experiencing this, I'm over-reacting and there was simply one bad batch produced. But when it walks like a duck and talks like a duck.....


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## roostertech (Oct 27, 2015)

lksdrinker said:


> Is that the original one with the problem or the replacement you received?


This is on the new one. But I think this one was also from the bad batch.

Bump:


exv152 said:


> Does the position of the WP knob also drift, or change position ?


The WP knob was left untouched. And it is not loose to the point that it would turn on its own.

Bump:


lksdrinker said:


> Right. _if_ the knob moved you could simply move it back. But, since I dont have this and am not experiencing this problem I'm not sure if that knob is moving? There could potentially be more than one issue you guys are dealing with here and this seemed like a potential that no one had brought up yet. I take it the knob is staying put and you've all confirmed that?
> 
> From everything said by the people experiencing this, sounds like this thing is just junk right out of the box. Its all well and good that the customer service is listening to the problems. But actions speak louder than words and it seems like the only action is to replace one broken item with another! Hopefully for everyone experiencing this, I'm over-reacting and there was simply one bad batch produced. But when it walks like a duck and talks like a duck.....


I don't think it is a problem with the knob moving. Because each time you adjust it to regain WP, you lose a bit of knob turn. Eventually you will be at maxed knob turn and can't go up any more.


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## exv152 (Jun 8, 2009)

If the knob isn't drifting then something internally may be - like the bonnet, diaphragm, spring behind the diaphragm, washer etc.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

2 stage regulators.. even "miniaturize" are not rocket science.. Design has been around for a LOOOONNNNNGGGG time:


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## jkrohn (Sep 17, 2015)

I received my replacement today. Going to get it hooked up tonight and start recording PSI for solenoid on and off tomorrow.


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## voyetra8 (Sep 24, 2010)

jkrohn said:


> I received my replacement today. Going to get it hooked up tonight and start recording PSI for solenoid on and off tomorrow.


Any word on how it's working?

I'm still waiting on my replacement.


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## onlycrimson (Sep 7, 2010)

Unfortunately I found this thread after I had already made my order and it had shipped. I received my unit today and it has this same issue I just found. Very frustrating, it's useless as it is.


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## jkrohn (Sep 17, 2015)

voyetra8 said:


> Any word on how it's working?
> 
> I'm still waiting on my replacement.


My initial impression is that is has the same issue. I'm going to set it up on a spare cylinder and a bucket I have to run some more tests on it, but currently it doesn't look promising.


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## voyetra8 (Sep 24, 2010)

jkrohn said:


> My initial impression is that is has the same issue. I'm going to set it up on a spare cylinder and a bucket I have to run some more tests on it, but currently it doesn't look promising.


Man, that stinks. Sorry to hear it. Especially because it seems like Roostertech's replacement is also faulty? 

I asked Co2art for a refund and they said they were sending a replacement instead... so I'm going to be pretty irate if this one turns out to be faulty as well. 

I've been without Co2 for almost 4 weeks now.... it's nonsense.

Bump:


onlycrimson said:


> Unfortunately I found this thread after I had already made my order and it had shipped. I received my unit today and it has this same issue I just found. Very frustrating, it's useless as it is.


Oh no.

I'd ask for a refund if I were you... I have a feeling they are going to be issuing quite a few very soon.


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## voyetra8 (Sep 24, 2010)

@roostertech @jkrohn @onlycrimson 

I received my replacement in the mail today.... and notably, the solenoid is different from the original I received. The new one is semi-transparent and has an LED in it to show when it's open. I doubt the solenoid was the culprit, but thought it was worth mentioning. 

I've only had it for a few hours, but it seems to be working correctly! It doesn't have any of the issues I was immediately seeing with the previous unit. That is to say - the working pressure appears to be holding, through multiple solenoid cycles. My fingers are crossed that they successfully identified the issue, and replacement units will not have the issue! 

I will report back tomorrow with an update... but I am feeling optimistic!


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## jkrohn (Sep 17, 2015)

voyetra8 said:


> @roostertech @jkrohn @onlycrimson
> 
> I received my replacement in the mail today.... and notably, the solenoid is different from the original I received. The new one is semi-transparent and has an LED in it to show when it's open. I doubt the solenoid was the culprit, but thought it was worth mentioning.
> 
> ...



That would be REAL nice. Looks like my first replacement is not any better. Here is hoping that my second replacement is.....


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## onlycrimson (Sep 7, 2010)

That's good to hear, they are sending a replacement to me as well. Hopefully doesn't take as long to get here, but we will see.


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## voyetra8 (Sep 24, 2010)

I'm really hoping it's just the system stabilizing, but... it appears to have dropped 12psi between last night and this morning: 

Last night, 10pm, solenoid open.

(Dialed in the needle to 1bps, closed solenoid and went to bed.)

This morning, 8am, solenoid open.

Still testing. Will report back.

Any thoughts?


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## lksdrinker (Feb 12, 2014)

voyetra8 said:


> Any thoughts?
> 
> :frown2:


I think you already know the answer. I'd be looking for a refund and a different company to source a regulator from. A drop of 12 psi from 30 is almost 50% which is certainly not acceptable.


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## voyetra8 (Sep 24, 2010)

lksdrinker said:


> I think you already know the answer. I'd be looking for a refund and a different company to source a regulator from.


I'm gonna give it another cycle before I lose my cool, I guess.


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## jkrohn (Sep 17, 2015)

I've got the simplest possible setup to test my replacement regulator started now.

Tank -> Regulator -> Co2 Tubing -> Aquatek 3-1 diffuser sitting in a bucket.

Pretty much nowhere to leak now. Just set it at 30 PSI and will let it run on the same timer as another regulator I'm running to see how it does. Will report back in a few days.


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## sevendust111 (Jul 15, 2014)

This thread is pretty much the reason I went with a basic Alan Le build instead of co2 art for my first rig.


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## voyetra8 (Sep 24, 2010)

sevendust111 said:


> This thread is pretty much the reason I went with a basic Alan Le build instead of co2 art for my first rig.


I'm happy our misfortune was of service, I guess...


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## youthcom (May 23, 2015)

I wonder if just upgrading to their £219 model would be an alternative. I think one person here has one & said it worked fine. Though both are dual stage the body on that one looks much more substantial then the cheaper models.


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## Achilles1 (Jan 22, 2016)

Hey all,

I was wondering if the people here who have received a replacement unit AFTER the issue of the bad batch was discovered still have the same issues. I had the same issues with my original unit and received a replacement unit about a week ago. Unfortunately my replacement unit seems to suffer with the same problem. So I was wondering if going to the trouble of sending it back again would be worth the trouble or if I should 'just' consider it a bad investment....


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## jkrohn (Sep 17, 2015)

youthcom said:


> I wonder if just upgrading to their £219 model would be an alternative. I think one person here has one & said it worked fine. Though both are dual stage the body on that one looks much more substantial then the cheaper models.


I have this one and it works great.

How well it works is actually what made me jump so quickly on this one.


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## sevendust111 (Jul 15, 2014)

At that price you could have someone build a dual stage for you or you could get a gla single stage


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## voyetra8 (Sep 24, 2010)

Achilles1 said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I was wondering if the people here who have received a replacement unit AFTER the issue of the bad batch was discovered still have the same issues. I had the same issues with my original unit and received a replacement unit about a week ago. Unfortunately my replacement unit seems to suffer with the same problem. So I was wondering if going to the trouble of sending it back again would be worth the trouble or if I should 'just' consider it a bad investment....


My replacement was sent *after* they realized there was a bad batch... 

I've only had it for two days, so I can't say for certain - but if there is a problem, it's definitely not as pronounced as before. I'm still testing.


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## bassbuster23 (Jan 7, 2008)

Here's an update on my situation.

Original regulator was faulty. Replacement regulator was one from the "bad batch". I sent both to the CA office to be tested. The original regulator had been assembled out of sequence. I'm guessing they reassembled it and it worked fine for them. They didn't tell me the status of the replacement regulator tests.

I had been in contact with the UK office also, and they realized they had a bad batch of regulators. They sent me a new one (replacement #2) from a new batch......& it should be here any day now. Hoping that the problems are fixed......as I'm sure all of you are as well.


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## roostertech (Oct 27, 2015)

Update, 
@Miroslav gave me instruction to try swapping the order of the knob assembly.

The original sequence is
Knob -> washer -> spring -> round disc with O ring -> rod
change to
Knob -> spring -> washer -> round disc with O ring -> rod

This seems to make the issue worst for me. It went from losing 2-3psi per day to losing 5psi per day. Also while I had the knob opened I noticed an indentation inside the socket. Possible that the rod did not go in straight in the original assembly?

Anyhow, I have put it back in the original sequence and trying to do a higher working pressure test (60psi) per request.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

That is some really poor workmanship on a critical area.....(I'm being nice btw)


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## lksdrinker (Feb 12, 2014)

roostertech said:


> Update,
> 
> @Miroslav gave me instruction to try swapping the order of the knob assembly.
> 
> ...


Its all well and good that the company is being nice through all this. But, isnt the idea of buying a regulator from a company that you should get a working part (if not the first at least the second time around?). I'm not one to shy away from tinkering and fixing things but thats because I'm also a big fan of buying things used. If the "fix" was as simple as swapping around the order of the parts being installed, then shouldn't the company be well aware of this problem and have no issues fixing it?!?

Also worth noting that if the leak were there in that knob, you should easily be able to find it with some soapy water or bubbles or whatever method of leak detection you'd want to use. Set it up, spray it down and see if there are bubbles forming there.

Also not sure how/why running at a higher pressure would do anything. Not many leaks are found or caused by pressure being too low!



jeffkrol said:


> That is some really poor workmanship on a critical area.....(I'm being nice btw)


Not only poor workmanship but what appears to be subpar (or possibly used?) parts?!? I'm not entirely sure of the inner workings of these things; but if whats shown in the photo is supposed to create a seal; that marred up surface looks like a surefire problem.


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## jkrohn (Sep 17, 2015)

That's interesting. I'm not sure what difference that washer would make based on what we're seeing though.

**Pure conjecture lies ahead**

After seeing the assembly honestly, to me, it makes the most sense that the spring is too weak or some other defect with the spring. 

We initially open the regulator and pressure seams to hold (spring + friction from the O-Ring pressing the diaphragm down). I would venture a guess that opening/closing the solenoid and the corresponding internal pressure fluctuation is compressing that spring *just a bit* and pushing that assembly with the O-Ring back into the knob *just a touch* resulting in the diaphragm having less pressure on it = less working pressure. This is why we have to turn the knob (which pushes the bolt inside forward and against the spring pushing that assembly with the O-Ring forward) to get back to the "old" working pressure.

This also make sense as to when when it is unscrewed all the way it "resets" as with no back pressure against the O-Ring assembly the spring is strong enough to return it back to it's working position.

It would be an interesting experiment to open/close the solenoid say once a minute and to see how quickly we lose working pressure. 

**End conjecture**


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## onlycrimson (Sep 7, 2010)

Yeah those internals look beat up. I'm gonna take a look at mine as well.


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## alberth (Feb 13, 2015)

At such at ridiculously low price, even their "dual stage" ones...now we know where they skimped on.

At least you guys are helping them with QA :tongue:


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## lksdrinker (Feb 12, 2014)

alberth said:


> At such at ridiculously low price, even their "dual stage" ones...now we know where they skimped on.
> 
> At least you guys are helping them with QA :tongue:


LOL....now we know where the old saying of "you get what you pay for" and "if it seems too good to be true...." come from!

I hope for the sake of everyone dealing with this that it gets taken care of in the end. Especially since everyone affected by it is nice enough to not just blow a gasket (no pun intended there) and start blasting this company left and right. I dont know if I would be as level headed if I were in their shoes!


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## voyetra8 (Sep 24, 2010)

lksdrinker said:


> LOL....now we know where the old saying of "you get what you pay for" and "if it seems too good to be true...." come from!


1. The price was not astronomically low or unbelievable... it falls somewhere between the "cheap" Aquatek regs, and "overpriced" GLA regs.
2. CO2art regulators had been reviewed by reputable board members here, and elsewhere, and given high marks. 

So, enjoy laughing at other's misfortunes, I guess?


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## onlycrimson (Sep 7, 2010)

I read a lot of reviews and almost all that were about the unit were not bad. So I'm hoping they just received a bad batch of them and that it will get taken care of.


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## roostertech (Oct 27, 2015)

Yeah going into this I wasn't looking for the cheapest but moderately priced with good support and co2art fit the bill.

As for the problem with this series, my thought is this. I work in small tech start up all my career, and for fast growing small company, mistake of various scale will happen. I personally have caused bugs that affected thousands of users. When that happened, it was super helpful to find a customer that is technically inclined with some patience to do field debugging to sorting things out. So this time, I'm on the other receiving end, trying to be a helpful customer (good karma and all that).


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## bassbuster23 (Jan 7, 2008)

**UPDATE**

I received my 2nd replacement yesterday (from the new batch). After hooking everything up, I set the working pressure to 45-46 psi. That was about 1.5 hours before the timer would shut it off for the night. I checked it again before I went to bed (solenoid was off at this point).....still holding at 45-46 psi. I checked it again this morning before leaving for work.....holding the same pressure. I don't want to get too excited just yet, but this is the most consistency I've experienced so far. I'm definitely checking things again when the solenoid kicks on this afternoon. Even though it's just day one.....I am breathing a sigh of relief that maybe......hopefully.......this problem is fixed.


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## lksdrinker (Feb 12, 2014)

voyetra8 said:


> 1. The price was not astronomically low or unbelievable... it falls somewhere between the "cheap" Aquatek regs, and "overpriced" GLA regs.
> 2. CO2art regulators had been reviewed by reputable board members here, and elsewhere, and given high marks.
> 
> So, enjoy laughing at other's misfortunes, I guess?


Ah you got me. I come here specifically to find someone with a problem and try to offer any advice I can just to laugh when things go wrong. Context is key buddy. I was laughing at the post I quoted where someone commented that those with this problem were helping the company with their QA. 

The price point of these units falls right between known pieces of junk that are dirt cheap and well known expensive units that seem to work quite well. It was an opportunity for a company to swoop in and make a big splash. However, that doesn't seem to have worked out very well and we're all trying to either get through the issue or offer any assistance we can. At this point, the consensus seems to be that there were at the very least some bad units that went out and a company who seems to be trying to correct the issue. So for now we just wait for updates and continue the conversation. No need to get offended as that was never my intention.


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## jkrohn (Sep 17, 2015)

bassbuster23 said:


> **UPDATE**
> 
> I received my 2nd replacement yesterday (from the new batch). After hooking everything up, I set the working pressure to 45-46 psi. That was about 1.5 hours before the timer would shut it off for the night. I checked it again before I went to bed (solenoid was off at this point).....still holding at 45-46 psi. I checked it again this morning before leaving for work.....holding the same pressure. I don't want to get too excited just yet, but this is the most consistency I've experienced so far. I'm definitely checking things again when the solenoid kicks on this afternoon. Even though it's just day one.....I am breathing a sigh of relief that maybe......hopefully.......this problem is fixed.


Still looking good?


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## Amphiprion1 (Jan 17, 2016)

I also ordered one of these just before Christmas and have been experiencing the same issue. Also awaiting a replacement unit and will report back what I find. I contacted them just a few dats ago, so I should get the newer units that are hopefully functional. Here's hoping.


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## voyetra8 (Sep 24, 2010)

I wish I had some good news to report, but unfortunately, my _replacement_ unit is also faulty. 

I have been in contact with Co2art, but we have not yet come to an agreement with how to move forward.


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## onlycrimson (Sep 7, 2010)

Bummer. I'm still waiting for my replacement to test. Pulled the knob off my regulator, not sure if any of this is useful but I took a couple pics. I'd love to pull the whole thing apart.


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## voyetra8 (Sep 24, 2010)

onlycrimson said:


> Bummer. I'm still waiting for my replacement to test. Pulled the knob off my regulator, not sure if any of this is useful but I took a couple pics. I'd love to pull the whole thing apart.


What's going on with the circle imprint that seems off-axis? I've highlighted it in my attachment.


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## bassbuster23 (Jan 7, 2008)

jkrohn said:


> Still looking good?


When I got home from work yesterday, the solenoid had kicked on & the pressure was sitting at 40 psi. I tweaked the knob to get the pressure up to 45ish. This morning when I checked it.....pressure looked to be sitting at 48 psi. I made it home before the solenoid kicked on today & pressure was sitting at 47-48 psi. When the solenoid kicked on, the pressure dropped to 40 psi. I adjusted the knob just a little to get it back to my desired pressure. As I type this, the pressure is sitting at 41 psi. I'm going to check it before bedtime, before I go to work in the morning, & when I get home. I'm not going to touch the knob & just see what the pressure does.


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## onlycrimson (Sep 7, 2010)

There's definitely a weird off center bevel on the edge of the hole. Here's the best pic I could get. 

.


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## voyetra8 (Sep 24, 2010)

onlycrimson said:


> There's definitely a weird off center bevel on the edge of the hole. Here's the best pic I could get.


Yikes.


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## onlycrimson (Sep 7, 2010)

Is there anyone that understands this design well enough to know what the implications of such an imperfection would cause, if any? I would think there has to be something quite simple going on as it doesn't appear there is much to this. Down in the "well" there are the three drilled holes, one goes to the working pressure gauge and the other is an output to the needle valve, then the one on the bottom goes into the body of the regulator . So the center hole must push on the diaphragm and the gas flows around diaphragm and up into the "well?" Or is this pin just pushing directly on the seat valve for the 2nd stage and the tiny spring is acting as the 2nd stage diaphragm spring? Here's an excellent youtube video that shows how two stage regulators work, but it appears our regulators may be slightly different. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfaucxS5rIc


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## onlycrimson (Sep 7, 2010)

After thinking about this more, I think there is probably an issue with a spring being too weak.


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## bassbuster23 (Jan 7, 2008)

voyetra8 said:


> I wish I had some good news to report, but unfortunately, my _replacement_ unit is also faulty.
> 
> I have been in contact with Co2art, but we have not yet come to an agreement with how to move forward.


After running my new regulator (replacement #2) for five days now, I have found this unit to be faulty as well. The pressure is very inconsistent.....very slow drop compared to the other regulators I had. Very disappointed to say the least.......:frown2:


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## jkrohn (Sep 17, 2015)

bassbuster23 said:


> After running my new regulator (replacement #2) for five days now, I have found this unit to be faulty as well. The pressure is very inconsistent.....very slow drop compared to the other regulators I had. Very disappointed to say the least.......:frown2:


Of the three regulators I have received so far (two original and one replacement) I have had this experience.

One of the originals almostbwork, losing 2 PSI every few days. The second original regulator would lose like 3 PSI every day, and the first replacement I got lost like 15 PSI overnight.

Not really sure where to go from here. Hoping the second replacement will actually hold pressure but it certainly doesn't look good.


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## jkrohn (Sep 17, 2015)

I got my second replacement today, it has the translucent solenoid.

Going to get it hooked up to a timer and and a tank tonight, but based on voyetra8 posts I'm not optimistic.


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## bassbuster23 (Jan 7, 2008)

jkrohn said:


> I got my second replacement today, it has the translucent solenoid.
> 
> Going to get it hooked up to a timer and and a tank tonight, but based on voyetra8 posts I'm not optimistic.


That's what my replacement came with....the translucent solenoid with the red LED on/off indicator. My pressure has not been consistent with this one either. :frown2:


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## jkrohn (Sep 17, 2015)

Lost 12 PSI over night, turned pressure back up and lost another 2 PSI last night.

Back to support I go I guess...


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## onlycrimson (Sep 7, 2010)

Aw man. Any other feedback on my post about what might be wrong with these units? They don't seem to be that complicated, I think the spring in the handle, as you mentioned earlier, is probably to weak or fatigues over time. If I could find the same size spring that was stronger or of higher quality I would test it.


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## voyetra8 (Sep 24, 2010)

onlycrimson said:


> Aw man. Any other feedback on my post about what might be wrong with these units? They don't seem to be that complicated, I think the spring in the handle, as you mentioned earlier, is probably to weak or fatigues over time. If I could find the same size spring that was stronger or of higher quality I would test it.



The pic you shared of the off-axis milling seems to indicate some quality control / manufacturing issues. 

A device like this is simple, but requires a certain level of manufacturing tolerance be met in its construction. 

Unless that hole / bevel is off-axis for an engineering reason - I'd wager that's likely contributing to the issue.


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## jkrohn (Sep 17, 2015)

I sent an email back out to support tonight. I imagine I'll be shipping these out to California as well..

We'll see where it goes from here. Very frustrating.


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## bassbuster23 (Jan 7, 2008)

jkrohn said:


> I sent an email back out to support tonight. I imagine I'll be shipping these out to California as well..
> 
> We'll see where it goes from here. Very frustrating.


I have emailed them as well......I'm pursuing a refund. Let's see where this goes.....


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## Straight shooter (Nov 26, 2015)

CO2 art are as useless as mudflaps on a tortoise. I say a group boycott of their products is in order. No one should send faulty item after faulty item to avoid giving a refund. 

Did they even test their own products? Any quality control whatsoever? Have they done ANY long term testing of this product?

For shame.


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## bassbuster23 (Jan 7, 2008)

My story ends with shipping the regulator & kit to the California office for a full refund. I had no hassles getting the refund. Regardless of the problems they seem to have had with these recent regulators, I still say their customer service has been outstanding (in my particular situation). Good luck to everyone else that is working through this.


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## lksdrinker (Feb 12, 2014)

bassbuster23 said:


> My story ends with shipping the regulator & kit to the California office for a full refund. I had no hassles getting the refund. Regardless of the problems they seem to have had with these recent regulators, I still say their customer service has been outstanding (in my particular situation). Good luck to everyone else that is working through this.


Well at least the story has a relatively happy ending at that point! All is well that ends well right? I hope everyone else who is unfortunately dealing with this is able to get to a successful conclusion as well.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Not to "defend" CO2 Art but ther is probably a bit more to this story than meets the eye..
The manufacturer of the regulator (which is, in all likelihood, NOT CO2 Art) could be the major culprit here..

Considering the "first batch" didn't seem to have this issue..

CO2 Art does need to do some appropriate damage control her though..


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## lksdrinker (Feb 12, 2014)

jeffkrol said:


> Not to "defend" CO2 Art but ther is probably a bit more to this story than meets the eye..
> The manufacturer of the regulator (which is, in all likelihood, NOT CO2 Art) could be the major culprit here..
> 
> Considering the "first batch" didn't seem to have this issue..
> ...


I think you're being too kind. If they are a middle man (which is likely) and are selling re-branded items then its their problem to deal with even if its not caused by them. Its all well and good that they're nice enough to handle the issue; but that seems to only be after a paying customer contacts them about this recurring problem and after they suggested to some that they essentially tear down the product and re-build it themselves in a different fashion than how they shipped it out to begin with. 

Compare it say some of the car manufacturers having problems lately. The air bag fiasco comes to mind. I believe the car manufactures (ford, nissan, mazda, honda etc) were all using Takata brand air bags which failed. Each car manufacturer was made aware of the problem and recalled their end product. Its not Takata who has to go to each person who bought a car and help solve the issue. Imagine if the car manufacturers buried their heads in the sand and only helped customers who bothered to contact them about the faulty air bag.


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## sevendust111 (Jul 15, 2014)

I feel bad for everyone going through this. My inkling is that most people are buying these regulators as their first foray into pressurized C02 and are trying to be responsible by not buying cheaper products like Azoo or Aquatek. People who were weary to build their own and didn't want to spend a ton of money on a GLA regulator. These products were to supposed to fill the middle ground between the two extremes. I feel like it is a market to be had, but not yet filled as we are now seeing. 

I would suggest the GLA GRO-1 or a custom build by a forum user like Alan Le.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

lksdrinker said:


> The air bag fiasco comes to mind. I believe the car manufactures (ford, nissan, mazda, honda etc) were all using Takata brand air bags which failed. Each car manufacturer was made aware of the problem and recalled their end product. Its not Takata who has to go to each person who bought a car and help solve the issue. Imagine if the car manufacturers buried their heads in the sand and only helped customers who bothered to contact them about the faulty air bag.


But that is part of the damage control part.. I don't see "consumers" blaming Takata directly.. THE De-facto cause of the problem..

QC of each "part" is almost 100% in the hands of the provider of said part..
Now if there were coverups or know weaknesses that a user decided to ignore well that is another story..

CO2 Art could have been just as confused as to why earlier parts functioned correctly.. but now didn't..

There is usually "blame" all around but who gets hurt worse? Part supplier or retailer??
Well ignoring the end user a bit here.. 

Manufactured goods, esp. in "small lots" run off a lot of faith..


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## jkrohn (Sep 17, 2015)

I've custom built my own regulator (Concoa 212) as well as own a higher end dual stage from co2art and both work fabulously. 

I bought this regulator based on previous experience with the company's products being solid and as it was on sale for $100. I'd be pretty hard pressed to build a dual stage for $100 unless I dive deep into the depths of heavily used at every point or buy cheap Chinese stuff prone to not perform well. $150, sure I'll build my own as that price point isn't terribly difficult to hit on a dual stage.

GLA GRO-1 is fine if you need something off the shelf but even that can be built for about half of that price.

My opinion is that they hit a bad manufacturing batch and had insufficient QA before sending them out. They are sending me another regulator to test from a new manufacturing batch, so we'll see.

Customer support overall has been good and they are sending out full refunds to everyone affected which is nice.


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## voyetra8 (Sep 24, 2010)

I've remained reasonably silent about everything that's been going on, and now that I got my refund, I do want to say this: 

CO2art remaining silent on the forum regarding this issue is a _colossal_ mistake on their part. It's 2016. If your product is faulty, people will find out, and will talk about it. Especially hobbyists, on arguably the most trafficked website in the hobby, _in the very forum that your company sponsors_. 

I imagine for them, it's a nightmare scenario. I know they are hoping to expand operations to the US, so this couldn't have come at a worse time. 

We know they are having issues, and their silence on it isn't exactly confidence inspiring. 

I'd encourage them to chime in, let folks know that they are aware of the problem, and what steps they are taking to resolve it. 

I'm bummed for them - the hobby could use a reliable regulator at an affordable price point - and I wish them the best of luck.


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## onlycrimson (Sep 7, 2010)

I just wish they would really research and figure out what the issue is so that they can fix it with their suppliers, but I'm going to guess they are/have. I would like to hear what the actual issue was/is. I agree they should post in here what the problem is and what's being done to fix it. If they can make this work they fill a great product gap, which is the reason I ordered it in the first place. I'm still waiting on the replacement to test, which I'm guessing will arrive this week. 

I was lucky I had parts laying around to build a super solid single stage in the mean time for nothing. I'm probably going to buy an industrial used dual stage from evil bay etc and just build that up.


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## Aqua Hero (May 8, 2015)

voyetra8 said:


> I've remained reasonably silent about everything that's been going on, and now that I got my refund, I do want to say this:
> 
> CO2art remaining silent on the forum regarding this issue is a _colossal_ mistake on their part. It's 2016. If your product is faulty, people will find out, and will talk about it. Especially hobbyists, on arguably the most trafficked website in the hobby, _in the very forum that your company sponsors_.
> 
> ...


You should talk about it on the ukaps forum because alot of use in the UK use their regulators. Not to mention that they sponsor the forum 

Sent from my D2303 using Tapatalk


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## voyetra8 (Sep 24, 2010)

Aqua Hero said:


> You should talk about it on the ukaps forum because alot of use in the UK use their regulators. Not to mention that they sponsor the forum
> 
> Sent from my D2303 using Tapatalk



I don't have any dog in the fight - I am just thinking out loud more than anything.


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## lksdrinker (Feb 12, 2014)

sevendust111 said:


> These products were to supposed to fill the middle ground between the two extremes. I feel like it is a market to be had, but not yet filled as we are now seeing.


Well these problems that are cropping up now might be the very reason why there is no middle ground between the two extremes. Perhaps it just cant be done on a large scale and be profitable for a company. 



jeffkrol said:


> But that is part of the damage control part.. I don't see "consumers" blaming Takata directly.. THE De-facto cause of the problem..
> 
> QC of each "part" is almost 100% in the hands of the provider of said part..
> Now if there were coverups or know weaknesses that a user decided to ignore well that is another story..
> ...


Consumers not blaming Takata directly is exactly my point. Whether or not these current issues are caused by co2 art or whomever their supplier is, the customer only knows to "blame" co2 art. As far as co2 art potentially being "confused" as to why certain parts worked and others didn't; well I personally believe that is a business problem that the business has to deal with. Its not something an end user should even be aware of and they certainly shouldn't have to deal with it. Now if these people were beta testing these units or got offered huge discounts to help work out the bugs then thats another story. But certainly thats not whats happening here.


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## roostertech (Oct 27, 2015)

This probably will be my last update on this. I'm sending the units back for refund and co2art has acknowledged the request. I'm sure they will eventually get to the root of the problem but it has been two long months and I got tired of fiddling with it. Their support has been great trying to work out the issue but this it just didn't work out.

As for the product quality, to produce something to sell at that price point there would be compromises (and remember they still have to make money too, it is a business after all). So getting a bad batch is not something unheard of. If you are looking for a proper good looking reg, go with their pro series instead.

Anyhow, I gave it a shot, it didn't work out. So now it is time to move on.


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## heel4you (Mar 8, 2015)

jkrohn said:


> Customer support overall has been good and they are sending out full refunds to everyone affected which is nice.


I wonder how far back (months) Co2art will go back as far as giving refunds.
I have had one for 6 months or more. I had 2 and the replacement did the same thing! I got tired of dealing with them :/
I held off buying anything new (I used what I had because I had too) for as long as it took me to save the money and have a nice regulator built for me.
I will contact them and to see what they say.
Thanks!


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## co2art (May 28, 2014)

Hello,

First of all, I would like apologise for the delay in responding here and any inconvenience this issue may cause.

I need to put my hand up, this is completely our fault. We focused on new regulator development so much that we completely missed QC of parts we received for our existing dual stage line from our suppliers (not only one, which makes things even more complicated) in past few weeks.

Unfortunately this issue is very complex as we find several parts to be out of our specification and this is why finding solution is taking so long time. Each test takes from few days to week (now we testing up to week as second and third replacements we sent were tested only for few days). This is why you waiting so long time.

I can assure you that this issue will be resolved ASAP and we will reward you for your patience. 

As I mentioned we are in the process of developing something completely new. Everyone who is affected by this issue will receive this regulator completely for free. 

In the meantime, we suggest to adjust regulator to full working pressure, set bubble rate and monitor bubble rate not the low pressure gauge. If you struggling with consistent bubble rate, please contact us via our support team, we can organise our latest one stage regulator which will keep you going. 

Again, I'm extremely sorry for any inconvenience caused.


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## Straight shooter (Nov 26, 2015)

Oh boohoo CO2Art.. You sold regulators to people spending their hard earned money and you didn't even test them. Nearly all businesses have many suppliers involved in production but still manage to appropriately test their products before taking people's cash. Then you repeatedly sent faulty equipment to SEVERAL customers in this case, but still didn't identify and solve the problem. Wouldn't that number of faults trigger you to ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE PROBLEM instead of resending crap? All the while the product remained advertised for sale when it should have been withdrawn while the fault was corrected, if that's even possible with this junk you're selling.

Hiding behind 'friendly' customer service tactics does not make this morally okay. At the end of the day people interact with you about the product and pay good money for something that should work as it is advertised. Your 'slick' salesman tactics do not make up for faulty products.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

This thread is closed for review.

Vendor reviews are NOT permitted.

It'd be much more productive to discuss issues without delving into vendor reviews and resorting to personal attacks. That would allow you to convey information without violating our terms of service.


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