# Soothing Shrimp's Mad Shrimp Gene Factory



## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

hehe i was thinking there was a reason the the theoretical question thread lol. i like to play with shrimp too. it can be fun and really rewarding. right now im kinda working on a line of prl. i figured that after almost 2 years of breeding and never adding new stock and not yet seen a snow or golden baby from any of them its kinda safe to say they are not crossed with any. i dont really cull but they patter is slowly getting better ie more white even though its not the greatest but then again i dont have 100% perfect water either. i also get blue rili. i have some that are as dark as the blue velvets but mine dont always get the red, they start out dark blue. ive seen your version of the carbons and they are so pretty. you have done great work with them. i cant wait to see what you do next. please keep up the good work, its awsome and no telling what the new color will be. im trying to work on purple rili lol


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

First thing on my agenda is to buy (2) 2.5g tanks and cycle them...

Not planning on spending a ton of money, so it looks like these tanks maybe the cheapest way to go: http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=11164158&lmdn=Price&f=PAD/psNotAvailInUS/No


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Wicca, I hope you do get the purple! I was working on a purple cherry for awhile I called Plum, however with the mortality rates, I finally figured maybe the purple from my cherries was either a weak gene or bacterial infection. I culled everything. 
---

I'm planning on going super low tech on the tanks. Inert substrate, double sponge filter.

I am a little concerned about the temp though. I have all shrimp in 78-80F If I move the shrimp over to the 2.5gs, I'd be better off without a heater, however I don't know if the sudden drop in temp will affect them in a bad way...


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## sbarbee54 (Jan 12, 2012)

Have you thought though if you do get : " I will get weird offspring (which means the genetics for the color is located on a different loci- hence a new mutation strain.) " The gene could be recessive. Thus coming out down the line


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

However if the colors of both shrimp were the same genetics, then the same color should appear first generation- because they would both be recessive.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

sbarbee54 said:


> Have you thought though if you do get : " I will get weird offspring (which means the genetics for the color is located on a different loci- hence a new mutation strain.) " The gene could be recessive. Thus coming out down the line



Ah! That's actually what I am hoping for sbarbee. :icon_cool

You see if I have different loci of the color, that means I have a totally seperate strain than what is currently offered.

Although they would LOOK the same- genetically they would not be. So, when mixed with other colors of shrimp, they could offer up something that hasn't been seen before!

I seriously doubt that either one of these colors are dominant.


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## sbarbee54 (Jan 12, 2012)

I do not think that is true in all cases. As studies on people have shown that if one Identical twin with the same genetic and blood pattern as his brother have children with the same women the out come is different in each trial. I have read on this because I am a identical twin, that had the exact same blood pattern as my twin. We are in the 1%-2% of twins like this.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Well, that is very interesting news, and could possibly put a crimp on things. Thanks you for sharing that with me. It is certainly something to re-examine when I get to that point!


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## sbarbee54 (Jan 12, 2012)

Shrimp could be different, but I have spent years reading up on twins. I belong to a network of twins and there is all kinds of stuff I have learned from it.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

What do you have up your sleeve Bryce? 

Pics or it's all lies!


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## ravensgate (May 24, 2012)

Get 'em Speedie! Lol! I think bouncing the ideas around us really going to be helpful Bryce


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

if its small tanks and you want to keep them warmer find a shelving unit that will hold them weight wise and just put them up higher. upper part will alawys be warmer than the lower shelves


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## metallicanick78 (Apr 26, 2011)

Sbarbee- what do you mean "the outcome is different in each trial"? Im not following the comparison to soothings situation.


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## Puddles (Jan 5, 2013)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> I am a little concerned about the temp though. I have all shrimp in 78-80F If I move the shrimp over to the 2.5gs, I'd be better off without a heater, however I don't know if the sudden drop in temp will affect them in a bad way...


You can just take water out of the tank they are in and let it gradually cool to room temperature. That would be less of a sudden shock than transferring from one tank to another immediately.


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## Merth (Sep 9, 2012)

Put some warm water in new tanks when ready to transfer or put a heater in til same temp then as it naturally cools they should adjust?


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## sbarbee54 (Jan 12, 2012)

Out come in traits, hair color eye color. meausreable traits.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Great suggestions for the water temp guys! I hesitate taking water from one tank to another since the shrimp will come from two different environments. If I have two new tanks, I may as well have new water as well. 

HOWEVER, you guys gave me an idea. If I put a heater in the tank and warm it up to what they are used to, then I can take it out, drip acclimate and transfer them without a problem. The water can then cool to 72F or so without any issues as so many suggested. 

Nick, here's a very bad pic of an Aqua and 2 clear Boxers. It was all I could get right now...


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## Puddles (Jan 5, 2013)

sbarbee54 said:


> Out come in traits, hair color eye color. meausreable traits.


I guess I don't get what you're trying to say. It's highly possible the children would have different eye colors or different hair color, based on how the DNA is swapped during meiosis. The same man and same woman can have multiple children that differ in phenotypes. What am I missing?


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Just took some more

Here's another Aqua








Here's the transitional phase of Aqua (red to blue)








Another transitional Aqua


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## sbarbee54 (Jan 12, 2012)

Puddles PM sent


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## Puddles (Jan 5, 2013)

Yeah, I think I missed the point. That's what I get for quick browsing the forum at my work break.


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## metallicanick78 (Apr 26, 2011)

I dont know if you explained it better in PM, but thats why I asked what you ment. If a man and a women have 100 Male offspring, none will be the same as another (barring an identical twin). 
If you have 2 identical twins fathering 50 male offspring each with the same women, none of those 100 will be the same as any other also. And there isent a difference genetically between the fathers, so wether it was 2 identical twins or one person really dosent come into play.
I feel like that is obvious which means Im still misunderstanding the anology here.


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

I like your new mutations, Bryce.  Keep it up.


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## alexopolus (Nov 9, 2009)

*existing color x new mutation*



Soothing Shrimp said:


> Wicca, I hope you do get the purple! I was working on a purple cherry for awhile I called Plum, however with the mortality rates, I finally figured maybe the purple from my cherries was either a weak gene or bacterial infection. I culled everything.
> ---
> 
> I'm planning on going super low tech on the tanks. Inert substrate, double sponge filter.
> ...



Look at the guy on the right side, purple/black is this one what you called plum? This is very interesting... when I took this pic I noticed a Red cherry half red /purple (of course when I tried to take a pic it desapear). 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

No, mine were fire red culls, and had a distinct dark plum color with white sprinkled. I think Wicca has some plum colored rilis.
-----

So will be getting the tanks today. 

Why not tenners instead of 2.5's one may ask? 

Simple. I have a pair of black cherries in a tenner that has taken forever for them to breed. Maybe one is sterile? Perhaps. However consider when I had cherries in a 55g, it took them forever too. So my opinion is that the larger size that is actually detrimental to breeding with fewer shrimp.

While the larger tenner would be better for stable water params, the smaller size is better for breeding only 2- 3 shrimp.

(After I use the tanks for this experiment, I may actually use them to coax my Nessies to breed faster. )


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

mosspearl said:


> I like your new mutations, Bryce.  Keep it up.


Thanks, mosspearl.


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## ekimf (Oct 5, 2012)

Since we are talking about mutations and such, just a quick question for everyone. I was curious on how one would get a blue rilli or carbon rilli?


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

my blue rili just started showing up in my red rili. i ended up with mostly all blue shrimp from my red rili and only maybe an hand full of the red and clear rili. not sure why or how it happend it just popped up and kinda was dominate i guess sine the reds slowly went away.

sorry for the kinda hijack but its been brought up so i figure what could it hurt to post a couple pics of my purple rili










purple and blue/aqua rili i get several shades out of them









random shot of rili colors


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

OKay, so got (2) 2.5g tanks for the ec x nm... then thought...hey, why not get more for other projects...so got 2 more...and then I splurges a little and bought some black silicone airline hose. Ninja, baby! LOL

Just ordered 20 more xy-2831's for future tanks.

My AL-60 came in today and man is it loud. Not as loud as other power air pumps, but louder than my mini air pumps for sure, so I may be diverted while the 2.5's are cycling.

I took measurements of my al-60 and set out to find something to dampen the sound. My decision is box with box technique, but do it as cheaply as possible. Above the air pump I want 3" clearance for air to enter and heat to dissipate.

My first idea was to buy








I got it home, tried sticking the pump in there...FAILURE! Apearently when I took measurements, I took them in the wrong spot. The pump is trapezoidal shaped, so goes smaller as you go up. The footprint was too large to go in. 

I still think the cooler idea may work, albeit a larger one. Coolers are made to be insulated, so may work with sound, too. HOWEVER, having said that, I had another brainstorm...










Yepper a 5g bucket for $3. Gonna try it first without insulation, then with if needed. My mission...do it CHEAP and do it safely...


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

So, as with many creative artists, I can hardly stick to one thing before my mind wanders to other projects as well.

I wanted to share a little something about one of my projects though.

A long time ago in a land not so far away, I bought some yellow shrimp. Make that many yellow shrimp from many different people. Always had bad luck with them.

Some people claim to have had good luck of which I can only say it must depends on the strain(s) of yellows you have. I went through hundreds of $$$ with my yellows dying. Just too sensitive. Would die at a drop of a hat. Didn't matter who they were from. Same results.

Ultimately, out of hundreds, I had 3 survive. Out of these three, they didn't breed for months and months and months and...well, you get the picture. They just... existed. 

As a project for myself, I put a couple red cherries in with them hoping I would get a cross and maybe I could selectively breed some for myself.

This is where it gets interesting. Either the new shrimp triggered a breeding instinct or they mated with the three yellows. I soon saw both baby cherries and baby yellows. 

Now my gut feeling tells me that at least one cherry mated with the yellows to berry them, BUT I have no proof of that... what I DO know is that after I culled the cherry babies, I FINALLY have a population explosion of very hardy and healthy yellow shrimp for my tank. I have some very vibrant ones and some with just a tinge of yellow- so these need more culling. Heck I'd even sell the culls for cheap, but these shrimp seem to be the most hardy I've ever had as opposed to the all sensitive ones I had in the past!

On other news, I have some 2.5g tanks set up and waiting for me to do a mulm bomb and add the EC x NM shrimp. Time is a tickin'...


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Time for an update.

I was under the assumption that my Alita 60 was loud, but that was dispelled yesterday when I built a pvc system for my shrimp rack and screwed in air valves. After attaching the Alita, it was only about as loud as my other air pumps before I took them offline. So, I'm very pleased. 

I had a ball cock valve I was using as a bleeder, however when open the noise increases, so I added some lever valves and ran air tubing for about 2 feet from each and really the loudest thing right now is the air hissing- which I can live with! Who am I kidding? I know I'll be adding more tanks anyway sooner or later! LOL

In short, into the 2nd day of using it, it seems to be a sound investment and I'm very pleased.

I've had the 2.5g tanks set up and running for a while now, but have been slacking using them because I don't want to pay an arm and a leg for lots of lights. I have 6 of these tanks side by side across one shelf and have been thinking about rigging up a shop light...


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

walmart shop lights work great. or if nothing else get a light for like a 29 and set it across them. one long light is way better than alot of little lights to mess with belive me i know. and when moved and getting tanks going again that is the way i will go.


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## randyl (Feb 1, 2012)

An Alita 60 for 2.5G? How many tanks will it power? I read back a few posts and didn't find that info.

I have a linear piston pump 1/3 of the capacity of Alita 60 and it's pumping 15 airstones/sponge filters in 12" deep tanks and still have tons of reserve. And yes, I found that when there's back pressure or no pressure at all, these linear piston pumps get really loud, but once you add the proper load, you will barely hear it over all the bubbling noise.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Nice to know you've had the same experience randyl. My theory is that the linear is "cushioned" with the back force of the air when under proper load, thus making it quieter.

I'm sitting here giggling a little because the Alita is not just for 2.5g tanks. It's true I have 6 of them and will prob get more, but it's mainly for 33 tenners, a 25g, 30g and some misc I'll be getting. 

Wicca, with the tenners I like the econ hoods atm- although it seems like I'm always updating and changing my mind with things in the shrimp room. Regardless of canopy glass covers or hoods, I like that it stops evaporation. 

With the 2.5g, the covers cost the same as tenner hoods- and I'm with you- there ain't no way I be doin' that. LOL


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## nightshadebel (May 3, 2012)

Could we see a full picture if your shrimp? Please??


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Well, it's nothing special. All I have is a shelving unit.

Here's a recent pic of my BVs I've been selectively breeding for awhile now for darker and darker blue. Getting to where I'm really liking them, and fast becoming some of my favorites.


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

those are awsome almost blue jelly blue


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Thanks wicca. I'm sure I can get even darker, just need more money, time and space. LOL

Selective breeding is a passion of mine. But man, it isn't easy sometimes!


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

*existing color x new mutation*

Bryce, you're a genius! These are very pretty. I've begun a lesser project, but a breeding one nonetheless. 

When will you stop breeding these guys? When is dark, dark enough? 

And why do you need more money to continue this project?


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Great job Bryce. Keep up the good work my friend.


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## Msheresy (Oct 3, 2012)

*existing color x new mutation*



Soothing Shrimp said:


> Well, it's nothing special. All I have is a shelving unit.
> 
> Here's a recent pic of my BVs I've been selectively breeding for awhile now for darker and darker blue. Getting to where I'm really liking them, and fast becoming some of my favorites.
> 
> View attachment 110970


Those are beautiful!


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## Merth (Sep 9, 2012)

Incredible color!!!


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

MABJ said:


> Bryce, you're a genius! These are very pretty. I've begun a lesser project, but a breeding one nonetheless.
> 
> When will you stop breeding these guys? When is dark, dark enough?
> 
> And why do you need more money to continue this project?


Thanks for the Kudos folks. It's really something I enjoy doing. 

Genius? Naaah. Just a whole lotta passion and hard work. 

What's your project, MABJ? I'd love to hear it!

Why more money? For more tanks for better selection and to place those that are not quite dark enough separate from the others, and update my equipment. You'd be surprised how much costs rapidly add up when selectively breeding. :icon_roll


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

And when is dark enough? That's a good question and one I've tried to come up with an answer to. LOL I honestly don't know yet. I've begun to wonder if I should call these "Dark Blue Velvets" or something. (?)


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

speedie408 said:


> Great job Bryce. Keep up the good work my friend.


Thank you, sir. I have every desire to. Some people have a desire to smoke- I have a desire to selectively breed. LOL


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

*existing color x new mutation*



Soothing Shrimp said:


> Thanks for the Kudos folks. It's really something I enjoy doing.
> 
> Genius? Naaah. Just a whole lotta passion and hard work.
> 
> ...


I figured, but I wanted to double check there wasn't a magic wand you were waving . 

I'm not surprised. As a college student, I've dumped a significant percentage of my income into this hobby. Probably more than the average keeper, as we make jack diddly **** lol. 

My project? Is just making a really nice line of neo even more red. I've always dreamed of having 100% of males being 100% red lol. All the females are there now, so are some of the males.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

I'd love to hear how that goes for you. Are you just doing one tank and culling from it then? 

The color would have to be carried on the Y chromosome, and we already know that some color is- so this is entirely doable!

My Nessie project has stalled for me for an altogether different, but similar reason. Because the males don't express the green very well, it's VERY hard to know who carries the Green Jeans (a bit of Cap'n Kangaroo there) and who doesn't.

So, I'm thinking of separating a Nessie fem when berried and perhaps starting a line with just her and her offspring. A longer route, but a more genetically secure one.


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

*existing color x new mutation*

More genetically secure for sure, but do you risk inbreeding effects at all? I only ask because the line was inbred before I'm assuming. 

I'm sad to hear Nessies stalled, as you know I was a fan. 

Yeah I'll just be culling hard. I'm waiting until I have an established population. 30+, then I'll begin. 

I'll be keeping culls in holding tanks and selling/gifting them away. 

They're speedies red neos. I really love the way they look. I just can't wait to seal up all the red 'cracks' you see on like 15% of the males.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

I'm looking forward to your red males. It's something the hobby definitely needs.

The research I've done online indicates that breeding depression wouldn't occur on the Nessies until years down the road if at all.

I can avoid this if I work on two lines at once though, and use each other to cross every so often. 

See? More money,more time, more space. And yet, shrimpers still find the time to complain about high prices for particular varieties of shrimp. LOL


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

*existing color x new mutation*



Soothing Shrimp said:


> The research I've done online indicates that breeding depression wouldn't occur until years down the road if at all.
> 
> I can avoid this if I work on two lines at once though, and use each other to cross every so often.
> 
> See? More money,more time, more space.


So true lol. Technically an investment. If you do develop a new line, only sell males. LOL. That way you keep the price always high because people can't breed them


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

You are so silly. LOL

I don't understand the breeders who sell only one gender. I mean- I guess for money? But if you work that hard on a strain, wouldn't you want people to enjoy it?

I was just having a discussion with someone about quantity of shrimp vs quality. It's really frustrating to me that so many breeders are now releasing shrimp that aren't really developed yet. I understand the "race" it's just sad that the quality part is seeming to be left behind.

I know people complain about price, but the way I see it- I am willing to pay a little more for a quality strain, than one that still needs massive amounts of work. You are not just paying for the shrimp, but the blood, sweat and tears that went into developing it.


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

*existing color x new mutation*

I absolutely agree. I appreciate that statement. It is why I only buy shrimp that breed true. I know my S-SS-SSS shrimp are going to throw off similar genes.

I was joking about the one gender, but it is the same reason people patent things. To control what gets out there. There will be knock offs, but they won't be what you bred.


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

Wow... those BVs are spectacular! Sorry to hear the Nessies are stalled, but I understand your logic. Used to breed rabbits, and... they don't breed like rabbits. Shrimp sound like a lot more fun these days. Especially because they'll be right here at my desk. I can't wait for the silly tank to be ready.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Thanks mosspearl. Yeah, it's frustrating to have babies and them not to have the traits you desire.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Getting frustrated with carbons producing random markings, (Ie. blue rilis or just marks wherever) so here what I am doing for myself to try to improve the standard:

When I have enough, I'm breaking these carbons into two groups. Blue middle, and clear middle.

The blue midsections are pictured often, so I'm going to continue to call those Carbon Rilis.

The clear midsections I'm going to separate out and call Midnight Rilis to avoid confusion with the blue color.

My desire is to breed both carbons and midnights separately to have solid hood and tail with midsection free of shell pigment. This is the classic "Rili" standard, *and by golly I'm going back to it!!!*

I'm also going to try to achieve each strain producing true to itself. Midnights produce Midnights, Carbons produce Carbons.

A huge undertaking? YES! But I believe it can be done!
:iamwithst


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

Go Bryce! I used to show rabbits. If they can produce picture perfect Dutch (difficult but not impossible to do), you can do this.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Thanks mosspearl. Gonna try my best!


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

i cant wait to see them both


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

It'll take a while. That I guarantee. LOL


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> Thanks wicca. I'm sure I can get even darker, just need more money, time and space. LOL
> 
> Selective breeding is a passion of mine. But man, it isn't easy sometimes!


Speaking of which, I've now come to the conclusion I have to sell off some of my DBV (Dark Blue Velvets) in a previous tank to make space for more selective breeding and put more money into this to make them even darker.

I kind of have mixed feelings about it since it is an ongoing continuous project, but reality has to set in sometimes and I can't keep them all forever. They are breeding about 95% darker as opposed to the lighter aqua color. Anyway, if anyone is interested in helping to fund my DBV selective breeding project, I have some shrimp for sale in the WTS area.


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

Darn! I want some, Bryce, but my tank is dawdling along.  At this rate, it may be ready for them by Mother's Day.  My budget's a bit tight at the moment anyway.  I hope you still have some when the tank is finally ready.


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

if i could afford some and wasnt going to be moving in a couple months i would get some. might have to hit you up later for a few hehe. wish you luck with them they already look awsome


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Thanks.  The ones being sold now to fund my project are about a generation or two behind my darkest right now, but even those are darker than I've seen from other BVs.

About ready to stick some of my new mutation shrimp and existing color together in the 2.5gs by the end of the week and see the result. I let the bio film grow, so Wed I'll prob mulm bomb some tanks and put them in on Fri or Sat.

I'll try to get some pics of my Sapphires shortly.

I adore my OEBTs I just got! Been a bit experimental with them. I tannined the water with powder tannin to stop bacterial infections, and have the temp between 74-76F. They are thriving!


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

A couple pics of my Sapphire line:

Yummy debris








Bucking broncos


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## GreenBliss (Mar 7, 2012)

I don't know how you find time to do all this. :smile:


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Well...I'm a bit obsessive. heh


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

those are awsome and the color...... im speachless


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Thanks Wicca. I'm really hoping to continue breeding the sapphires into a very dark consistent blue. As of right now, I still have some a couple shades lighter than I would like.

My DBV look to be heading in this direction as well, but of course have different genetics and will take a while to get to this point.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

I've had some pms of confusion between the Sapphires and DBVs. 

The Sapphires came from a mutation that I'm selectively breeding.

The DBVs are selectively bred blue velvets.

-----

My OEBTs are doing well. Teh temp is prob not at the recommended temp. 74-76F, but so far they're not complaining or showing any signs of problems. They have regained their color from shipping and look even more beautiful.

I recently ordered 3 amanos and they should be shipped out today. I've had a hair/thread algae problem on some of my mosses due to extended light periods to help algae growing on the glass. My source suggests having the amanos in their own tank, and moving the affected plants over to be "cleaned." If the amanos get fed food, then they won't be as effective.

So- like me, starve me enough, and I'm liable to eat just about anything. LOL


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

glad they are doing well for you just keep and eye on them with temps so warm a bacterial infection could set in quick at those temps. with that said i had mine that warm quite a bit over the summer


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Thanks Wicca, I know they aren't necessarily at recommended temps (although I *do* appreciate you pointing that out.) However I really do believe that all these sanitary conditions we create for our shrimp serves only to make the next generation weaker.

Okay... that plus using a fan or chiller isn't an option considering they are on a shrimp rack surrounded by ~80F tanks. LOL


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

So, I'm going to have to rethink my 2.5g breeding thang. I've had shrimp I put in two of them for the past month that has shown any signs of breeding or interest in breeding. My guess is after growing in a 10g, a 2.5 is just two small for them to consider free enough to party. heh

However the 2.5gs, should still be good for a single berried fem to stay in and release her shrimplets.


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

you might have a point with it being to small for adults. i use mostly small tanks myself, several 1 gal hex tanks up to 5 gal tanks so my shrimp have not known bigger. although if you leave the mom in the small tank to breed and keep the babies you want to breed in there it might work, the were born and raised in a smaller tank so they dont know what a bigger one is like.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

+1 It should work if the young were raised in there from the start, methinks.


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## Duck5003 (Oct 1, 2012)

I actually have a very similar situation going on as you with the opposite results. I had a dozen blue velvets in my 15 gallon that they grew up in. As they came into breeding age (only 2 weeks ago) i moved 8 of them into a deep blue 3b model, approx. 2.5 gallons and since i have 2 females berried, and the other 3 with saddles that are ready to berry any day. Params are identical as the 15. What all do you have in the 2.5g tanks? I have a lot of moss in mine which i did to help relieve stress in such a small tank and increase surface area for the shrimp to be able to move, hide, etc given the small dimensions. Can be difficult to find the shrimp in it all, but so far so good on the breeding end, i just get my updates on pregnancies during feeding time. Just my on going experience, we'll see where it goes!


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Good to know someone is having success, Duck. Thanks for sharing that.

I'm using the 2.5 from petsmart and has a much smaller footprint. I think I would have better success with a DB though. Wanna buy me one? :icon_mrgr


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## Duck5003 (Oct 1, 2012)

Ahhh i have one of those! And i know what you mean. I have to say, i'm loving the deep blue tank. The 2.5 from petsmart is 14.99 with glass lid. I recently found a new LFS that has deep blues in stock regularly. The model i have was 19.99, with glass lid and also has two deviders to seperate the tank into thirds (excellent for one pair selective breeding) although i need to spend the time to mod the tank/glass as there are gaps on the side that shrimp could potentially squeeze through. anywho, they also have a 5b version with 5 possible compartments that they have been out of but i cant wait to get that tank! Great tanks for the price, sleek look, and so far doing very well for my shrimp. If you really are interested and cant find them anywhere, feel free to PM me and im sure we could work something out!


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

yeah my small tank the green tiger are in is a deep blue 3 betta model and to be honest i really kinda like the black silicone in it kinda makes it look like a picture lol. and soothing you can always use the small tanks for taking pics lol


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## mcclure91 (Aug 7, 2011)

hey soothing are you still working on a green neo i thought i read it somewhere on here that you were but i read so much on here i could be making it up lol


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Not making it up, mcclure. heh I have my Nessies, but they have stalled for the moment.

Going to have to do some drastic culling to get the color to appear the way I want. Going to still stick with the tenner they are in and cull all but the 3 or so fems out except for about 1 or 2 males...


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## mcclure91 (Aug 7, 2011)

Where did your original nessies come from? What were you selectively breed when the green started to come out? Im very interested in having green neos (if you couldnt already tell) The thought of having shrimp that are almost healthy plant color seems awesome from a distance a tank full of green shrimp would appear as your plants were walking around lol


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

The more painted green my Nessies get, the darker they are. At this point I'd just like it if the traits continued on! Then I'll rework on the green paint. heh

It's a very long story, but originally fire reds threw some blue mutations. While breeding those blues, they produced green mutations and that is where my direction of breeding went. So originally you could say these came from fire reds.

A lot of my breeding comes from breeding mutations that I've kept or I've been able to buy.


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## mcclure91 (Aug 7, 2011)

Hmmm very interesting. So this leads to believe that the neos in the trade have very unstable genetics. I used to breed leopard geckos and corn snake there are tons of mutations in them as well and without knowing the genetics it was very hard to know the out come of what you might get since there are so many people breeding them. Is there any good sites or articles on shrimp genetics mostly interested in neos.


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

*existing color x new mutation*



mcclure91 said:


> Hmmm very interesting. So this leads to believe that the neos in the trade have very unstable genetics. I used to breed leopard geckos and corn snake there are tons of mutations in them as well and without knowing the genetics it was very hard to know the out come of what you might get since there are so many people breeding them. Is there any good sites or articles on shrimp genetics mostly interested in neos.


No. The best stuff I've seen is right here on this website. 

The genetic code behind shrimp isn't anywhere near unlocked yet.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

+1 "The genetic code behind shrimp isn't anywhere near unlocked yet. "

And unfortunately the breeders who have figured out what little they know keep the info to themselves. It would be so much easier to piece things together like a puzzle if people would just share what they know- but the closest you will find to that is right here on this forum. IMO no better on the net.


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## auban (Jun 23, 2012)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> +1 "The genetic code behind shrimp isn't anywhere near unlocked yet. "
> 
> And unfortunately the breeders who have figured out what little they know keep the info to themselves. It would be so much easier to piece things together like a puzzle if people would just share what they know- but the closest you will find to that is right here on this forum. IMO no better on the net.


im working on that.


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## mcclure91 (Aug 7, 2011)

auban said:


> im working on that.


good to know some one is. Im so used to breeding reptiles that i have been spoiled on a wealth of information of each them and how there mutations work. with reptile breeding unless your line breeding you shop for genetics so such luck with the shrimps


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Shrimp have polygenetics as far as I've been able to gather, so that doesn't help either.


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## auban (Jun 23, 2012)

mcclure91 said:


> good to know some one is. Im so used to breeding reptiles that i have been spoiled on a wealth of information of each them and how there mutations work. with reptile breeding unless your line breeding you shop for genetics so such luck with the shrimps


i remember talking to Ben Cole, a florida ball python breeder, about reptile genetics... i think they are quite a bit less complex than shrimp genetics, but even so, quite complex. i remember him getting all excited when a friend of mine produced a tribal patterned red tailed boa. he had been trying for years to produce the morph through selective breeding, but it just wasn't to be. it ended up coming from a wild boa, which unfortunately died from birthing complications.

it seems the first of everything is always happy accidents, but mutations happen in shrimp far faster than they do in just about anything else i have seen.


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## mcclure91 (Aug 7, 2011)

Well parts are but the different genetics for mutations out there for most reptiles are very simple. I think the mutations happen quicker in shrimp simply because of how quickly they reproduce and mature. Most reptiles only lay eggs once a year or twice and some species lay only one at a time were other lay up to a dozen but most reptiles take 2-3 years to sexually mature. But i think part of the issue with my thought process is what soothing pointed out that cherrys were line breed from wild type so if all these "mutations" were line breed then yes the genetics behind it are gonna be far to complex to crack down to a specific science. In reptiles a mutation like albinism are as simple as my first example there really is no guess work if you have a albino snake and a wild type by f2 you will have albinos.


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

*existing color x new mutation*

They also happen quite quickly because interbreeding allows them to take root.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

I just bought 20 or so extremely rare Sulawesi Shrimp of unknown sp. that came in for someone with their import of cardinals.

After doing a ton of research, they look like Granite Shrimp.









Now these Granite Shrimp may have been labelled by the seller and not actually have that as a name at all. Of course, it is possible these have yet to be scientifically logged. In which case it is even more important for me to try to breed these so they don't get lost in the Sulawesi shuffle.

I have been assured that these will not breed with cardinals, so I will be using my cardinal tank for these, too. Hopefully these arrive tomorrow and I can see first hand how these look.

In other news, I was going to breed my Sapphires to be a solid blue, however since the Blue Diamonds came out, no need to do that anymore. So, now the question is- should I leave them looking like a copy of dream rilis, interbreed them with carbons, or stop the project in lieu for other projects...

The DBV are looking quite nice lately, and I must admit feeling quite proud when people have reported back to me how much they appreciate my hard work that has gone into them. It makes all the blood, sweat and tears worthwhile!

My blue diamonds will be shipped to me this week. So I'll see what direction to selectively go with that.

Also, I've decided to stop breeding my White Pearls. As a selective breeder I'm constantly searching for quality. Those white pearls drive me crazy due to some shells being thicker than others and giving the illusion of cloudy tissue! No more craziness. They all have become culls now. Best of luck to whomever is currently breeding them. They really are beautiful. The tank will be used for a different project now.


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

*existing color x new mutation*

Very neat new shrimp. They seem worthy of a project


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Thanks MABJ. 

Lexinverts suggested they are possibly Caridina lanceolata. So, for now, I'm happy I have a sci name to associate with them. 

update: Again, thanks to Lexinverts, I pretty much have a positive ID of Caridina sarasinorum.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

The Gravel Shrimp are doing well. They look so tiny after working with Neos almost exclusively for such a long time. LOL

The Nessies are finally producing again! Yay! Almost ready for another culling. 

The yellows have to be worked on for color intensity, however people have been very happy with their hardiness. And that makes ME happy!

Getting fed up with all my power cords everywhere. Going to have to wait a month or two, however I think I'm going to buy a 250' lamp cord roll, and use vampire plugs. That way I can add plugs anywhere I want to along the line and not have a bajillion extension cords/light bars.

Figured out that I have so many Malawa (um...maybe 1000 in a tenner) that they've been cannibalizing since they've not been getting enough food! Since I found that out, I've been feeding a fish flake every day and they've been happy happy happy.

Bought a betta to take care of some culls. Beautiful fish. Not big enough for large shrimp yet, but small and medium sized are good game. May have to buy a female to eat some too. With so many tanks running, I constantly have culls and I'd much rather have them go to the circle of life than just snuffed out.

Going to mix some clear/black carbons with my own mutations of clear/black and try to create a line with more diversity. Midnight Rilis will have more genetics than from just one source. I was going to do all black with them as well, but since blue diamonds have come out, it looks as though they may take that place.

Speaking of blue diamonds, I got those recently. (Hey, find me a new neo mutation and I start drooling. LOL) Mine that came in look like chocolates with a blue tissue that makes them appear darker- from dark chocolate to almost black. At first I didn't know what to think since it had the name "blue" in it. I'm happy though. Very dark chocolates are hard to breed, and these look good. A couple do look blue, so I'll have to see what the f1 generation holds.

New project: I obtained the male and female Battlecat shrimp (formerly green tiger shrimp) from Wicca. (Thank you!) We'll see if we can get them to breed and hold eggs.


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

*existing color x new mutation*

Nice update. 

Will you do anything with the BDs? Or just try to get them to breed? 

HOLY HECK 1000 shrimp in a ten gallon? Can we see a pic of that tank?

How would Malawa and BD's look together?


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

MABJ said:


> Nice update.
> 
> Will you do anything with the BDs? Or just try to get them to breed?
> 
> ...


Thanks. Always something going on around here. LOL

Not sure what I'll do with the BDs yet. First step is to have a large enough colony to pick what I want to selectively breed. I already have chocolates, but not as dark as these. Would be nice to breed for the blue, but I have so many blue shrimp already, do I really need another? :icon_roll

As far as the malawa tank, my camera charger is missing right now, but here's a pic from not too long ago:









As you can see (besides that I suck at taking pics), the BD and Malawa both have browns and not be very attractive together. LOL


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

*existing color x new mutation*

Oh that's too bad. I thought they were more crystalline. Scintillating if you would.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

LOL crystalline like in clear?


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

i think battlecat neos is a good idea to keep from more name confusion lol. i sure hope you can get them going. so glad things are keeping you busy always fun that way


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

*existing color x new mutation*

Yep. I must have been thinking of another shrimp.


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## ren (May 19, 2010)

I just read the whole thread and it held my interest the whole seven pages in. I have been on and off selectively breeding my shrimp but life gets in the way.

I'm really digging the sapphire line! How far along are those guys?


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Actually looking pretty good, thanks for asking. 

About 50% have dark blue tissue with dark blue splotches on the shell.

The other 50% are dark blue tissue with speckles on the shell.

A couple clear/black rili were thrown as well, but the percentage is so small, that it's less than 1%.

I could separate them I suppose, but I have sooooo many projects- space, time and money is at a premium.

When I can find the camera charger, I'll take some crappy pics for ya. heh

And YAY for another dabbling with selective breeding! It's definitely not for everybody because of the life sucking trinity (space, time and money), but a cool passion just the same.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Finally found the camera cord! I'll try to get some pics after charging.


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

*existing color x new mutation*

Sometimes you don't have a choice. It's a disease. 

Never thought I'd have 5 tanks in a dorm. Gotta take 2 down and one is a gift though. So I'll only have two. But two very nice ones at least.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

The DBs are nice little tanks that look good.


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## GreenBliss (Mar 7, 2012)

I love the look of the Granite Shrimp.

The Yellow Neos that I bought from you are doing great. Very active.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

YAY! THAT's what I LOVE to hear!!!


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Okay, here's some crappy pics. LOL

An idea what the Blue Diamond looks like. Here you can see the choco coloration with blue tissue underneath.








An example of my Sapphire shrimp. In the bottom left you can see the royal blue almost all start out as babies. When they grow you can see some examples of blues with speckles and blues with patches.








And just for fun here's my male red claw shrimp








A female red claw shrimp with one hiding in the tube








And a red claw baby








Below as an attached image you will see some of my chocolates


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

nice shrimp i want to see the ones i sent you hehehe


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Your request is my demand. LOL

Male Battlecat








Female Battlecat








and just for fun a close up of my sponge filter with Malawa








You may wonder about the tube on the sponge filter. Earlier this year I decide to do an experiment by taking the top tube/L off. The result was that I think water gets drawn through the sponge more evenly and consistently, and better air/water turnover at the surface. I now take all the extending tubes off my air sponges whenever I set up a tank.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

So I recently separated out midnights from carbons. To review from a previous post: The blue midsections are pictured often, so I'm going to continue to call those Carbon Rilis. The clear midsections I'm going to separate out and call Midnight Rilis to avoid confusion with the blue color.

Some midnight still have very light blue tissue, but I should be able to breed that out. It may take a little while though. One of the rules I've learned is It's always easier to add in color, than to breed it out.

Also, I'm not sure I'm crazy about the midnight name. Ink blot rili? Suggestions are welcome.

As far as the carbons, I've been working with a mutation that looks very much like dream rili (dark blue tissue) I've been calling Sapphire. They are looking pretty good. Now I'm seriously considering breeding all the Sapphires and all the carbons into one line. 

"But you'll mess up the lines!", you may say. And...well... you'd be correct. However consider this- the more genetics involved, the stronger the line. I'm able to possibly create a much deeper blue tissue, and increase the hardiness and vigor by creating a new strain. My aim as a selective breeder is to always improve improve improve.

Hmmmm. With dark blue tissue and rili pattern, maybe I should rename the new strain Sapphire Rili. Seems more fitting...


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

A good example of my Sapphire Rilis


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## ren (May 19, 2010)

You could just split the sapphire population in half while still keeping the sapphire line alive. Killing two birds with one stone maybe? What are you tank parameters hovering around?

Hehe I have my own fun at playing breeder. I had a blue diamond knock up one of my blue rili. To bad I have to wait until f2 or 3 to see something.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

You may actually see something first generation ren, since they both have blue tissue and are the same species. 

Params: TDS around 300's and gh around 6ish. Ph 7.5ish After trying a bunch of different params last year/this year- I'm happiest with this right now.

I appreciate the thought on the split of the Sapphires. Thank you! :thumbsup:

My line of thinking is that if I am trying to create the dark look in the new combined strain anyway (working name Sapphire Rili), then the current Sapphire strain would just be doubling up on the same intended look, so not worth the double extra effort.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Dangit! Started prep for moving Sapphires over and I noticed that I really like the way the line is darkening up! Apparently only a few were out, and the others were hidden!

Not going to combine them after all! Carbons are carbons and Sapphires are Sapphires. I guess that just goes to show something at any given time can change your mind when shrimp breeding!


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

woo hooo i like the the sapphires im happy you are keeping them as a line all their own. you could take a few and mix back in with the rili but not the whole line please


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

LOL I get spontaneous and impatient and sometimes that is my worst downfall. :hihi:


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Okay, going to separate my dark blue Sapphires: rilis from the deep solidish blues...two separate tanks...two times the fun. LOL

I think the solids will retain the Sapphire name, but what should I call the dark blue rilis?

Wicca? Ren? Anyone?


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## ren (May 19, 2010)

Haha I figured you wouldn't do it. That's the worst part of this hobby we want instant gratification, but it will never happen. It would be a shame to see one line disappear since you took the time to improve it.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Yeah. LOL The thing is, this Sapphire line never came from carbons. It was a mutation from another mutation from another mutation...well...you get the idea. LOL Anyway, I bred this mutation out to be dark blue rili...and then these nice solidish blues started coming about...

I can't even begin to count how many tanks I have due to my own insatiable desire to selectively breed almost everything...of course I can't, so I have to pick and choose.

I'm going to rewrite a song: Mamas, don't let your babies grow up to be selective breeders.

yeah...I'm a bit obsessive...


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## nightshadebel (May 3, 2012)

It's what we love about you. Lol

So when will you be selling the sapphires? I'm going to start a little madness myself soon. With some hybrids I have.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Oh! I'd love to know about your new hybrids and follow along! 

Well, I decided to separate the Sapphires into two seperate lines if I can. Teh ones with rili-ish pattern and the ones with no rili-ish pattern.

When I get enough from each colony I guess I can let the people here know if they want to get any, however it may not breed true at that point yet. Time would tell.


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## GreenBliss (Mar 7, 2012)

Why not just call them Dark Blue Rilli? Midnight Blue Rilli or Navy Blue Rilli. I kinda like Midnight Blue.....


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Okay, Midnight Blue Rilis it is.

How about the black/clear? Ideas


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## Clemsons2k (May 31, 2009)

Black coconut rilis?


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

i say since you have Sapphires why not Sapphire Rili? as for the black and clear rili i like ink blot


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## Duck5003 (Oct 1, 2012)

Really loving this thread!! Its like watching a master at work roud: Im glad to see your keeping them seperate, they are really starting to come together by the looks of it! But i definitely think that crossing some could be fun! 

Midnight Rili i think is a perfect name, and the black and clears....maybe we couuld see more pictures?  I'm particularly interested in this thread because i'm also working on a "rili" type, if you will. Once i get a few more generations and cross them back i'll probly start a thread, but its still fairly new with only a few shrimp in the line at the moment, so i'll keep ya guessing  A lot to be told by the next generation! Anyway, keep up the awesome work and as always i look forward to viewing your progress. Happy Shrimping!


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Thanks Duck.  I'll try to gt more pics of the black/clear tomorrow.

Midnight (Blue) Rili and Ink Blot Rili sounds fun and informative. Thanks folks! Those labels will now officially stick. :icon_mrgr


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

*existing color x new mutation*

Can you list your tanks and projects for us? I know it will be a Herculean process, but it would be interesting.

(Also perhaps I could offer simplification ideas lol.)

-- Edit or maybe keep a running list on the first post + rename the thread to "Bryce's mad shrimp gene factory" LOL


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## Nemue (Apr 27, 2013)

Wow what a great thread, sounds like you've got some really interesting projects going on Soothing Shrimp, I love those blues! I've been looking at the Blue Diamonds lately, your dark blues are gorgeous too! I wondered a little while ago if anyone had done anything to make BV shrimp darker, if someone hadn't I would try. I'm really hoping to fiddle with color mutations myself.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

It's a fun hobby Nemue, however I readily admit that I'm a stay at home dad and have the time to do this where most people wouldn't be able to.

"Can you list your tanks and projects for us? I know it will be a Herculean process, but it would be interesting."

Golly MABJ....um okay, let's try...

Malawa- leaning towards casually breeding the darker browns. Still haven't figured out a way of telling sexes apart on these. When I finally think I figured it out a male gets berried! D'oh!

Chocolate- have been breeding for the dark chocolate brown, but sill have milk chocolates being thrown. Wilds thrown every once in a while. Maybe 1 in every 4 batches.

Blue Diamonds- just got these in last month. Still deciding the direction to take on these...

Blue Velvet- Some people like the "classics" and I can't say I blame them. A pretty aqua blue that I don't do much to at all.

Dark Blue Velvets- Taken years to selectively breed the dark color on these. I'll always be working to refine these, but it's finally at a place where they are one of my favorite strains. Occasionally a DBV "light" is thrown, but those are still darker than my BVs.

Mixed Rili- Blue Rili and Red Rilis that are interbred in the same tank. My goal is to have enough BBRR (Blue Bodied Red Rilis) to create a colony and ultimately a strain. I often sell offspring from this tank for people to have the opportunity to have red rili, blue rili, or BBRR in the offspring so they can have more thanone color that won't revert to wild in their tanks. I really think BBRR is underestimated in their beauty and I'm chomping on the bit to develop a strain.

Yellow- VERY proud of this line. For years all yellows I bought were too sensitive for me to keep, so I decided to do something about it and developed my own strain. I really think these may be as hardy as regular cherries. The color now needs to be worked on for intensity, as being robust was my number 1 priority.

Pumpkin- a very pretty honeydew transparent color

Florescent Orange- working on creating a painted construction worker florescent orange shell. Hmmm...I wonder if it really does glow under black light? Never tried it.

Carbon Rili- I bought these when they first came out. Not really "rili" as much as random blotches. 

Ink Blot Rilis- breeding for clear/black. Most are still a very light shade of blue that will have to be bred out. 

Midnight Rilis- breeding from a mutation that causes dark blue tissue and rilish pattern.

Sapphire- dark blue shrimp. Similar to DBV, but a darker blue, not dark aqua.

Nessie- Named after Loch Ness Serpent, Green pigment on the shell. Boy has this been a toughie! Sometimes cherry like markings all the way through to almost PFG. Stopped breeding for a while, and now breeding again. I thought I'd be able to offer to this mutation this summer, but once again the shrimp proved me wrong. Still requires a decent amount of culling as I get a portion of pumpkin tissued shrimp- mostly male. Makes me wonder if somehow the green pigment mutation was developed from a crossover of pumpkin...

Green Rili- yepper, planning on moving these to their own tank today or tomorrow. Have no idea if these will breed true, but have been spit out from one of my other mutations. clear/green. This is an exciting one!

Boxer- have plans to separate this to their own tank soon. Half pigmented shell, half blue tissue- as if wearing pants. No idea how long this one will take if ever, but a very interesting project just the same. Going to require very high rates of culling for it to work- if at all.

OEBT- received these in last month and have three berries now. Learning as I go along.

BEBT stripeless- receiving 2 of these in today. Hopefully 2 different sexes to breed together. Going to place them in my golden tank, so if they aren't two different sexes, maybe at least create some interesting TiBs.

Golden- wanted snows to breed for solid white. Got goldens. Would still rather have snows. Anybody want to trade some shrimp for REAL white snows?

Supreme- want to breed for best red I can get. They seem variable for me so far.

Dark Green- caradina sp. I suck at keeping these. After the last die, I'll prob go to a different type.

Battlecat- formerly Wicca's Green Tigers. Absolutely no idea what these are. Hopefully I can get them to procreate. A translucent bluish/greenish. Very pretty in a very unusual sort of way.

Granite shrimp- A sulawesi shrimp very rare in the aquarium hobby. I know of only two other people who have it. One is berried right now. The others may be too young.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

MABJ said:


> ...-- Edit or maybe...rename the thread to "Bryce's mad shrimp gene factory" LOL


Did something similar. Thanks for the suggestion!


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> Did something similar. Thanks for the suggestion!


Hehe neat. I love watching your mad obsession.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

LOL It's a blessing/curse!


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## ren (May 19, 2010)

Jeez that's a boat load of shrimp. Well more power to you do what you enjoy right?

I know I've seen some cherries and wilds have gold specks on their shells. Is that a refraction of light against the the racer strip that's kind of dispersed? Is it actually gold like color?


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## Warlock (Feb 28, 2012)

WOW.. Nice LIST!!


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

ren said:


> Jeez that's a boat load of shrimp. Well more power to you do what you enjoy right?
> 
> I know I've seen some cherries and wilds have gold specks on their shells. Is that a refraction of light against the the racer strip that's kind of dispersed? Is it actually gold like color?



Not seen any gold flecks. Sounds absolutely fascinating! Can you imagine a 24K shrimp?


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Warlock said:


> WOW.. Nice LIST!!


Thanks Warlock. heh You can see how the breeding trinity eats me alive.


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## Warlock (Feb 28, 2012)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> Thanks Warlock. heh You can see how the breeding trinity eats me alive.


can't wait to start myself


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Well for heaven's sake, when you start keep a journal here. I'd love to see your work!


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## aznrice247 (Feb 1, 2012)

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=244002&highlight=










If you ever get one of these, please name them Stardust Shrimp, because the yellow looks like it would be a trail of stardust and the blue/black looks like it would be space.

AfricanCichild's female kicked the bucket.


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## Warlock (Feb 28, 2012)

soothing shrimp said:


> well for heaven's sake, when you start keep a journal here. I'd love to see your work!


i can"t wait 

i am inspired by many of the shrimp keepers!


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

Just saw your list. 

Super impressive. 

Have you at all considered a shrimp rack of tenners divided in half by perfectly cut/siliconed glass? 

Then each species has 5 gals (great for many projects) and you can condense your space/tanks


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Not yet MABJ, but I may have to resort to that soon!


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## Nemue (Apr 27, 2013)

That is an impressive variety of shrimp you have there! I don't think I'd ever have the time to keep quite that many, I'm going to start out with a few varieties of neos and see how that goes.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Nemue, Neos are great! I don't think you'll be disappointed.


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## Clemsons2k (May 31, 2009)

So do you have a main cull tank that you put shrimp in? I can imagine with a selective breeding program the size of yours, you probably have a lot of shrimp that are considered not usable for any one project.


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## ShortFin (Dec 27, 2005)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> Florescent Orange- working on creating a painted construction worker florescent orange shell. Hmmm...I wonder if it really does glow under black light? Never tried it.


This sound interesting. Got any pictures?


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

you forgot one hehe, the wilds i sent lol.
i say if your going to divide the tanks go with 20 long or 40b and divide them into 5 gal sections. wouldnt be any more work than dividing 10's


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## Duck5003 (Oct 1, 2012)

Pardon me, i had to pick my jaw up off the floor before i could post this reply lol truly both inspirational, and impressive my friend! I'm curious, how many tanks do you have actively running?? And what is the average volume per tank, mostly 10's?? I cant help but picture a vast laboratory with tanks and tubes and test kits and drippers and pumps, graduated cylinders, erlenmeyers lol and your cull tank?? Just a giant vat swarming with seemingly more shrimp than water of all different types and colors with the Mad Geneticist (Soothing) stirring it all with a large glass stirring rod (can you tell im bored at work) haha awesome as always Bryce!


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

"i say if your going to divide the tanks go with 20 long or 40b and divide them into 5 gal sections. wouldnt be any more work than dividing 10's "

True, but if I remember correctly that means it would be longer from front to back and I like more width.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Duck, you are a riot, my friend! LOL

I must say that I *do* have the absent mindedness though!


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## GreenBliss (Mar 7, 2012)

Cool list, Soothing! :icon_bigg


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## nightshadebel (May 3, 2012)

Wow! that is truely awesome. I can't wait to see the other strains your developing. How many tanks are devoted to one strain? Do you plant them heavy or just throw in some moss? I just start two five gallons for my hybrid project. I'd get some picture up but i take pictures worst than you


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

LOL NOBODY takes pics worse than me.  Of course my camera has a lot to do with it...

Because I do selective breeding, planted tanks are pretty much out for me. I use tenners, put the air sponge on the left back wall, heater in the middle, and moss in the right back corner. That's it. Very simple so I can see the shrimp and make selections. If you've ever tried to chase a single shrimp through greenery, you know what I mean. I still want to set up a small planted tank for my own enjoyment. Just hasn't been a priority right now with money required elsewhere.

Money being sucked up right now due to the breeding trinity, so going to have to do another sale of shrimp prob so I can do some much needed projects.

My shrimp room is the back room in the house. Heat waves are coming, so I've been brainstorming with my wife. I have an opening to the room that has no door. I was trying to think of more expensive methods of fixing this and my wife is great for KISS (keeping it simple, stupid!) Shower curtains! This will allow me to cool the room and keep in the air without spending a fortune! yeah baby!

I'm also going crazy with all the !$#$#%$&$ extension cords running everywhere. Looking at buying a 250' roll of SPT2 lamp wire, and vampire plugs. 

Most of us are familiar with pvc piping in the "fish" room for airlines. Add a valve anywhere you need it and you have air. The vampire plugs are pretty much the same thing. Add a plug anywhere you need it along the wire and you have power. One cord, multiple outlits.

Also, looking at making the closet into a TB area...


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## Clemsons2k (May 31, 2009)

You're a lucky man to have a wife that supports you in your shrimpy ways


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Well, she likes being an idea person. LOL She's not too much into my shrimpy ways.


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## Clemsons2k (May 31, 2009)

Ok allow me to rephrase:

You're a lucky man to have a wife that tolerates you in your shrimpy ways. Haha


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

That's more accurate. 

I promised someone a pic of my Ink Blot Rilis, so here y'are:


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

nice looking shrimp.


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## Oceangirl (Feb 5, 2013)

Pretty! Must get more tanks and make more shrimp babies!


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

LOL I'm with ya Oceangirl!


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## Clemsons2k (May 31, 2009)

Dangit man now I want those too >_<


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

Clemsons2k said:


> Ok allow me to rephrase:
> 
> You're a lucky man to have a wife that tolerates you in your shrimpy ways. Haha


Heh my gf loves my shrimp. I made her a tank of her own


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## Clemsons2k (May 31, 2009)

MABJ said:


> Heh my gf loves my shrimp. I made her a tank of her own


Mine is still not impressed with the idea of shrimp. Shes more interested by fish, but at the same time shes never experienced pet shrimp. I've had them in the past but she'll soon understand why they're awesome. The plan is to move my betta and ghostie out of the 10 gallon and dedicate that tank to shrimp.


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

i wish my hubby was into tanks he isnt though. i love my shrimp.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

I used to dabble in genetics by breeding mice and owning snakes, lizards, etc. What's a huge selling point to my wife is that shrimp tanks don't smell, they don't escape (and survive) and more than a couple can live in a tank to save on space.


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## Oceangirl (Feb 5, 2013)

I got a new tank and let hubby pick out the fish, décor and everything for "his" tank my former smaller tank. All I do is clean it. Now he feeds and checks on them. He loves it, its the tank in our bedroom. Its a glo tank, black sand, BlueLED lights, GLofish, couple randoms that got kicked out of the planted for eating plants.


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## Kudaria (Jan 7, 2013)

Speaking of shrimp genetics what will happen when yellow shrimp crossbreed with fire red shrimp? Will you get just a dilution of the color or a range between yellow and red?


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

i love snakes used to have some hubby not so fond lol


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Kudaria said:


> Speaking of shrimp genetics what will happen when yellow shrimp crossbreed with fire red shrimp? Will you get just a dilution of the color or a range between yellow and red?


This goes back to my theory that there may be more than one color controller on different loci. Some people have had the experience that theirs turned to the wild color. When I did mine, I had reds and yellows first generation. I think it depends on your strain and it is pretty much impossible to know what you have until you try it.

Keep in mind the yellow mostly affects tissue color, the red is on the shell.


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## Aulonocara_Freak (Feb 4, 2013)

Who else thinks we need more pics?

Nice setup, SS


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## mcclure91 (Aug 7, 2011)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> This goes back to my theory that there may be more than one color controller on different loci. Some people have had the experience that theirs turned to the wild color. When I did mine, I had reds and yellows first generation. I think it depends on your strain and it is pretty much impossible to know what you have until you try it.
> 
> Keep in mind the yellow mostly affects tissue color, the red is on the shell.


I actually have been pondering about this and was trying to figure it out but im sure you already know. Which colors effect tissue color and which effect shell with neos. So far i got

Red-shell 
yellow-tissue
blue-? (I thought ive heard tissue you but I don't remember)
Brown-?
orange-? 

Can you fill in the blanks and is there anything im leaving out?


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

i know on my wilds the shell will change depending on back ground color.. odd huh? and the tissue is either a very pale green tint or an orangy brown tint. i will try to get pics of mine if need be


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

mcclure91 said:


> I actually have been pondering about this and was trying to figure it out but im sure you already know. Which colors effect tissue color and which effect shell with neos. So far i got
> 
> Red-shell
> yellow-tissue
> ...


Red- On shell

Yellow- mostly tissue, occasionally some appears on shell, but that is uncommon

Blue- mostly tissue, however there are some instances where blue appears on the shell such as my DBV, carbons, my sapphires, etc.

Brown- shell

Orange- tissue, also can be on shell

Green- on shell such as green rili or Nessie, however sometime in tissue of wilds.

White and cream can even appear on the shell as is evidenced by racing stripes. So we know this is a possibility.

Black- may actually be very concentrated blue on the shell.


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## mcclure91 (Aug 7, 2011)

Have you noticed any differences in the out come when crossbreeding one that color shell to tissue eg. Shellxshell or shellxtissue


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## Clemsons2k (May 31, 2009)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> Red- On shell
> 
> Yellow- mostly tissue, occasionally some appears on shell, but that is uncommon
> 
> ...


Now someone just needs to breed ALL those colors into one shrimp :icon_cool


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

What do you think chocolate is? LOL


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## Clemsons2k (May 31, 2009)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> What do you think chocolate is? LOL


Its yummy.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Try a little salt on it. It's yummier.


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## Aulonocara_Freak (Feb 4, 2013)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> What do you think chocolate is? LOL


If it's anything like chocolate milk... lol


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## Clemsons2k (May 31, 2009)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> Try a little salt on it. It's yummier.


I do love chocolate covered pretzels. Salt and sweet are nomnoms :bounce:


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

So I've had a couple batches of BD now. So for my offspring I see blue, chocolate and wilds. Hard to tell a ratio as of now, but 

chocolate/wilds: blue = maybe 3 or 4 :1.


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## Lexinverts (Jan 17, 2012)

Most of my offspring are blue (that I can see in the Java moss).


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Are most of your adults blue? Most of mine are choc


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## Lexinverts (Jan 17, 2012)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> Are most of your adults blue? Most of mine are choc


Yes


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## Clemsons2k (May 31, 2009)

Looks like that strain is going to need serious culling to stay true.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Just speaking from experience, neo babies tend to change colors as they grow. It may be too soon to judge what exactly the babies will turn out as adults. We saw this in the Blue Velvet strain first hand. Let these bad boys grow out before we make the final call. They are a very new shrimp and I myself would like to know the facts as well.


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

I want babies NAO >( lol.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Clemsons2k said:


> Looks like that strain is going to need serious culling to stay true.


A lot of new strains are like that. Especially when they first come out. With the rush the breeders have to get out a new strain before someone else does, that leads to strains that need more work to breed true. However, having said that- I don't see this trend changing at all. If anything, more new strains in the future are going to need work from the consumer on the front lines. I honestly consider this my privilege to be able to work with the raw product to refine. Especially when few others have this yet.

From experience with different types of neo blues, the blue starts coming in usually within the first couple weeks. The BD babies I have seen from mine are the same way so far. You can see the blue, black, blue under brown or just brown/wild. I've begun to separate the baby non-blue wilds and chocolates to another tank to observe them better and see if there are any changes as they mature. Who knows? I've been surprised before.
---

On a separate note, my Schoko have thrown a blue. So it may be possible to mix it into the BD to increase genetics, however I'm not ready to do that yet.

I just got in some TT x crystals. For simplicity, I'll just call them "Pseudo TiBs," heh, and put them in with my two surviving snows and royal blue BEBT. We'll see what happens. :wink:

Looking into buying some TBs within the next 6 months. I hear KK is the hardiest right now. Perhaps I'll try to create a true breeding strain of those if none exists already... just in the thought stages so far, though.
:iamwithst


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## Clemsons2k (May 31, 2009)

A blue from the schoko huh? Hopefully the ones I'm getting from you today have the same genetics


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Bryce, 

TBs are the easier than you think/heard. They breed exactly like any other CRS for me. Same conditions. Even Tigers (sp. cantonensis) are harder than TBs.

You're right about breeders pushing out new variants. They are not fully refined yet but they are enough to where you don't have to do too much work.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

speedie408 said:


> Bryce,
> 
> TBs are the easier than you think/heard. They breed exactly like any other CRS for me. Same conditions. Even Tigers (sp. cantonensis) are harder than TBs."


That's VERY good to know, and I will probably be buying them from you. 



speedie408 said:


> "You're right about breeders pushing out new variants. They are not fully refined yet but they are enough to where you don't have to do too much work.


I'm not sure I agree with the "not too much work" on new strains since I'm having to do work with the carbons to make them consistent as well. heh However, I will agree on the idea that to get this far has shaved time off of what frontline breeders have to do to go further. And I have been willing to pay for that.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> I'm not sure I agree with the "not too much work" on new strains since I'm having to do work with the carbons to make them consistent as well. heh However, I will agree on the idea that to get this far has shaved time off of what frontline breeders have to do to go further. And I have been willing to pay for that.


lol that's why breeders hire minions to do the work for them. You need minions my friend! Selective breeding works best if you have OCD I'd think :help: :wink:.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

LMAO! I think you hit the nail on the head. 

---

BTW- Interesting observation. Looks like one of the blues produced in the DB tank looks like a dream rili.


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## Lexinverts (Jan 17, 2012)

Hey Bryce,

Do any of your Granite Shrimp look like this yet?


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Nope. Fems are light gray- same pattern. Males are more greenish with almost no pattern.

Lost maybe 6 or so, but the rest are still doing okay. Currently I'm feeding Jake's Sticks w/extra ca+. They have a HUGE amount of room in a 30g tall. Want to get cardinals too, and have my source, but the granites that croaked have me waiting for a while yet.


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## Lexinverts (Jan 17, 2012)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> Nope. Fems are light gray- same pattern. Males are more greenish with almost no pattern.
> 
> Lost maybe 6 or so, but the rest are still doing okay. Currently I'm feeding Jake's Sticks w/extra ca+. They have a HUGE amount of room in a 30g tall. Want to get cardinals too, and have my source, but the granites that croaked have me waiting for a while yet.


Did it happen after a water change?

Even the Granites are sensitive to water changes. You really want to drip the new water into the tank with an airline to avoid these kinds of deaths.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Thanks for the tip. I actually haven't done any water change since there's so few in a huge tank. Water stability has been my main concern since I need them to have babies for better adaption to my water.
--------

Quiz time: In other news, just had a massive die off on a mutations tank. It involved a double sponge filter. It was a basic shrimp 101 mistake. I know what I did wrong, but 10 points to anyone else who knows also. 
---

I've had a 3D Shrimp Net now for a while. Tried it once and loved it. Never looked back. I've super glued this net several times when rips occurred and figured it was time to finally get a new one and use this as a spare.

Got a telescopic fluval one. For my type of shrimping, I hate it. Never tried it, still brand new, but see too many ways for the shrimp to get trapped or injured in it. On the flipside I've seen posts from people who absolutely adore it. 

I need another telescopic 3d shrimp net.


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## Lexinverts (Jan 17, 2012)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> Quiz time: In other news, just had a massive die off on a mutations tank. It involved a double sponge filter. It was a basic shrimp 101 mistake. I know what I did wrong, but 10 points to anyone else who knows also.
> ---


Did you clean your sponge too thoroughly? In chlorinated water, perhaps?


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

+1 to Lexinverts! The A for the day!

I didn't use chlorinated, however I did do a thorough squeeze job on BOTH sponges. I usually do one sponge, then at least a week later do the other. That way I always have bacteria for the tank. Well, I had two tanks I was seeding, wasn't paying attention where I grabbed the sponges from and voila. Two very well seeded tanks and one "clean sponge" tank with 2/3 shrimp dropping like flies.

They are doing better now, but absentmindedness can be a bitter pill to swallow sometimes for a shrimper. heh


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

Sorry to hear about your losses, Bryce. 

But I pose a challenge for you. It is an impossible task, but one uniquely suited to you! 

I challenge you to create a line of neos which are genetically different enough to not interbreed with mainstream neos. 

Auban's method of simulated stressors might make it possible..


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## Lexinverts (Jan 17, 2012)

MABJ said:


> Sorry to hear about your losses, Bryce.
> 
> But I pose a challenge for you. It is an impossible task, but one uniquely suited to you!
> 
> ...


I think that is nearly impossible, within a reasonable time-frame. As an example, look at the how dogs and cats have been line-bred for thousands of years, and they still all can interbreed. Same thing with domesticated cattle, horses, etc...

Maybe if Bryce had been around since the time of the ancient Egyptians, it would be possible.:smile:


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

Lexinverts said:


> I think that is nearly impossible, within a reasonable time-frame. As an example, look at the how dogs and cats have been line-bred for thousands of years, and they still all can interbreed. Same thing with domesticated cattle, horses, etc...
> 
> Maybe if Bryce had been around since the time of the ancient Egyptians, it would be possible.:smile:


That's true. But what Auban did was selectively stress out populations. 

I did say it was probably impossible. If anybody could try it, Bryce could lol.


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## GreenBliss (Mar 7, 2012)

Sorry to hear about the shrimp deaths. 

I had one of my Yellows die today and have no idea why. A female. Every morning, I check the tanks and saw her lying on her back in some dwarf sag. I thought at first she was stuck in the substrate (couldn't see her tail) and got her. She fell on her side dead on the substrate. I took her out and she looked fine. Didn't look cloudy. She looked like the other Yellows. 

I believe I am down to 8 Yellows from the 11 I got from you. The other missing two could be in there I guess. I was wondering what you think of these water parameters I took of their tank and if you think this is good for the Yellows.

7.5g tank:

0 Ammonia
0 Nitrite
5 Nitrates
PH 7.4
Gh 4 KH 2
TDS 136
72 Temp

I been trying to raise the GH to a 5. Out of Tap it's a 5 and it's 5 in the other tanks, but for some reason it's 4 in the Yellow tank. I went up to 15% water change weekly to see if that would raise it and it hasn't.

Could it be the GH 4 that did her in?


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## sbarbee54 (Jan 12, 2012)

Sorry Ito hear about that Bryce. I hate when avoidable mistakes happen, but when you have been in the hobby we tend to make mistakes once in a while. I know I have


Sent from my iPad 3 using Tapatalk HD


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

did the battle cat shrimp i sent you ever turn back green or did they stay blue


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Wicca- Stayed in between. The fem seems to have disappeared and the male is still looking good. It's only a 1.5g, so I assume the fem passed and the male "cleaned up" overnight. Looks as if I'm going to have to breed the male with a BV to try to bring out more coloring. Hopefully I can get the battlecat back. 

Sbarbeee- Yeah. That is soooo true. Still, I hate it when I do something stupid like that and lose some valuable stock.

MABJ- Didn't I tell you I knew Cleopatra? She took the break-up kind of hard and held a snake to her neck. I knew she was faking though, so I left.  Seriously though, unless a genetic mutation happened for sexual phenotype, I don't see any way possible. It would require a male mutation AND female mutation.....or I could just breed a bunch of snobbish shrimp who won't have anything to do with "commoners." heh 

GreenBliss, I'm truly sorry to hear that. Maybe try to increase your TDS. I've currently found my cherry sweetspot between 350-400. Ask me in 6 months and it may be different. Also, best gh I've found is between 6-9. Otherwise I had unexplained die offs. When I raised my gh from lower, die offs stopped.


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

LOL sorry, Bryce. It was just a pipe dream to have a new species of shrimp come out of a hobbyist


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

But we have those already. They're called hybrids.


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

that bites. wish the female would have made it. do let me know what comes out of it. i still say use a bad colored female nessie lol


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Yeah. I'm kinda bummed myself after all the preparations I did for those two.


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> But we have those already. They're called hybrids.


Ok I meant a TPT hobbyist that I know named Bryce. LOL.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

LOL You flatter me sir. 

Made the decision to use an air conditioner for my shrimp room and use a compression rod and shower curtains to block off the open doorway and keep in the cool...


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

I need to do something like that :/. My tanks are getting warm.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

I know the feeling. Lost some shrimp during the small heat wave we just had here.


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> I know the feeling. Lost some shrimp during the small heat wave we just had here.


Man I feel bad for any members we have in Oklahoma ATM :/


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Ditto.


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## Clemsons2k (May 31, 2009)

Usually I don't worry about temps in my apartment, but with the new shrimpy additions I can forsee my bill increasing this year :icon_lol:

Trying to keep their tank 75 and below.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Yeah, my oebt and pseudo TiBs shrimp temp flux is all over the place. I just set up an air conditioner but because of all the electrical equip in my shrimp room it keep tripping the breaker. So, next is to try an extension cord to another part of the house...


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## nightshadebel (May 3, 2012)

Sorry to hear about the loss Bryce  which mutations did it happen to? 
How are the Hybrids doing for ya? Temp was never to much a problem for me with them.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

The hybrids are hardy as can be! Wish all my shrimp were like them. Haven't had a single problem with them. They are in 6.3 right now, thinking about moving some to 7+ and seeing if they are just as hardy since they don't appear interested in breeding right now.

The deaths happened to some mutations I had on standby. One of which was the boxers. I don't see a single one anymore...


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## nightshadebel (May 3, 2012)

that's sucks  im sorry. I hope you end up seeing some.


they will most likely be fine. feed them some fish flake or other protein not to often but it'll help the mood


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

I've tried pouring wine, but they get too drunk to get "busy."


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## Clemsons2k (May 31, 2009)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> I've tried pouring wine, but they get too drunk to get "busy."


 

Nothing like a bad case of the "whisky pleopods", haha.


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## nightshadebel (May 3, 2012)

LOL your silly!


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Just a quick update with a pic of over a thousand Malawa shrimp in a 10g tank. LOL








And yeah, I know that isn't today's date, but I was too lazy to change the camera date right before I took the pic today.


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## auban (Jun 23, 2012)

MABJ said:


> Sorry to hear about your losses, Bryce.
> 
> But I pose a challenge for you. It is an impossible task, but one uniquely suited to you!
> 
> ...


i doubt it. in order for that to happen, the new shrimp would have to have a different anatomy. that would require a leap, ie, evolution. 

what i did was simply cull the population and select for the ones that could survive, which just so happened to expose mutations that were already present. 

if you want to create a new species, you would have to inject new genetic material into a sex cell, or eliminate enough genetic material so that you produce a simpler, more specialized species.

as far as i can tell, its easier to produce new species by eliminating DNA through mutations that it is to actually gain DNA through mutations. just look at the axolotl or the chicken. the axolotl stays in larval form because it has a mutation that prevents it from producing thyroxin. this keeps them locked in a larval stage, which makes them a more specialized form of salamander, which can only live under water. as for the chicken, it has the genetics needed to grow teeth, but they are damaged. repair them, and the chicken grows teeth, so a birdlike creature with teeth was somewhere in its evolutionary history. experts call them dinosaurs.

the fact is, whatever allowed my shrimp to survive in the horrible conditions i exposed them to, carried with them some of the genes controlling color. it could be the proteins that control the tissue that makes up the chromatophores, the proteins that make up the pigment themselves, or even one of the facilities for making the proteins. who knows.
so far, some of the mutations are showing dominance in their offspring, and some are not. 

from what i can tell, there are a LOT of factors that control color in dwarf shrimp. im not sure why there are not more geneticists working with dwarf shrimp. they are a good model for studying gene expression and hereditary traits.


----------



## ren (May 19, 2010)

Oh man not the boxers...well how are the sapphires? Didn't you mix the boxers and the sapphire together?


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## nightshadebel (May 3, 2012)

Yeah! how are the projects going? Super Awesome Shrimp "one day" Master


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Yepper. All boxers gone. 

Sapphires are fantastic. They'll put dream rilis to shame.  Breeding well and hoping to start selling them in limited amounts by the end of the year. I've seen the blue on some nearly paint the entire shell, but to distinguish that from black is difficult and I much prefer seeing through some dark blue tissue. Gorgeous when they swim and the light shines through!









I just culled my colony of Nessies to ~10. Some fems are already berried since new tank move in. This is hands down the hardest project I've ever attempted. They are a little better, but still range from cherry to sakura pattern. The males don't carry the color much, and for some strange reason an internal orange tissue under the green happens every now and then on random ones which drives me crazy. 

Another interesting fact is that the green is able to change from bright green to kiwi green to almost brown depending on mood. Every now and then a blue is thrown. Very strange little mood rings. LOL Also, the solid green that I get occasionally is so dark it looks almost black. In my opinion not really attractive, but beauty is in the eye of the beholders, and I'm sure at some point after these are released, they'll be some painted Nessies developed.


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## nightshadebel (May 3, 2012)

They all look great! you do the best work so far


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## CheyLillymama22 (Jun 9, 2013)

*drools all over thread*

You have gorgeous shrimp. I was saving for some yellow neos but that jar of pennies got a new label on it today: "Soothing Shrimps DBV Fund"
Lol
I like the green ones too. How cool. I hope one day I'll havethe time/space/money to start a little selective breeding project!


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Thanks nightshadebel.  

Chey, it's not super hard, but man- that breeding trinity is a killer!
---

My Inkblots are starting to have promise. 

In my experience it is much harder to take out color than it is to add it in. The inkblots ideally should have black blotches on clear tissue. I'm getting there, however I'm still trying to breed out all traces of blue tissue to get the ultimate clear.


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## Lexinverts (Jan 17, 2012)

Those Sapphires are awesome! Some of my baby Blue Diamonds look a little like that.

Did the Sapphires come from a Blue Velvet strain, originally?


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

Bryce, I will own your Nessies, your DBVs, Nick's Blue Diamonds and Someone's PRL line, and then I'll never buy another shrimp LOL.

Amazing lookin shrimp.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Lexinverts said:


> Those Sapphires are awesome! Some of my baby Blue Diamonds look a little like that.
> 
> Did the Sapphires come from a Blue Velvet strain, originally?


Entirely different genetics. The original sapphires came from my mutations tank, then I had to breed to get more, and then cull and create the colony and then cull some more, etc. You know the routine. heh Finally I got them to breed 100% true blue.

The DBV came from an already established strain of BV that I worked to deepen the coloration over a number of years. I can't take credit for the original BV strain. Years ago I bought those from Nick.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Thanks MABJ. heh


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

I find it interesting the DBV are so small. 

Do the females stay small as well?


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

With the rare exception, all pretty much stay small. Maybe 3/4" or so. My theory is that they inherited a short gene and now it is stabilized into the stock.

You can maximize growth with lots of fresh water though.


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## Lexinverts (Jan 17, 2012)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> Entirely different genetics. The original sapphires came from my mutations tank, then I had to breed to get more, and then cull and create the colony and then cull some more, etc. You know the routine. heh Finally I got them to breed 100% true blue.


Could they have come from Chocolates, then? Or were they just a Fire Red mutation?


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

I suppose in essence everything could come from chocolates since they have almost all combos in them.

The mutations tank was a tank where if something odd showed up from any of my colonies, it would go into the tank until I figured out if I wanted a project with them. Often they would interbreed with other mutations in the interim and I'd wind up with more odd mutations. This sapphire mutation (variety) was found in the f3 or f4 generations.

These were not from the same mutation strain as Nessies.


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

No need to max growth, I love that they're really small. Makes a spec even more viable for them


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

bryce those are awesome. i so want some sapphire and nessie's lol. did the male green make it or did he kick the can like the female i sent? what about the odd ball shrimp i sent have you messed with them at all or are they just running amuck lol


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Heyya Wicca. 

The wasabis are breeding among themselves. Should have a pretty good colony by the end of the year.

The male battlecat is still alive, but hasn't procreated with his two fem BVs though.


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

that is a shame i hope he gets the job done for you. glad the wasabi are doing good for you


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

About to embark on an experiment. One of my 1.5g tanks has hydra. I have no idea where they came from considering none of my other tanks have it, but regardless- hydra have appeared over the past week.

I have read in my reading that spixis will take care of hydra. However they are illegal to cross state lines. So...

My experiment is to use a couple large ramshorn taken from another tank, and see if it eats the hydra. The mystery snail in there is currently leaving them alone.

I also have a couple small pond snails in there...so we'll see what the results are in a week.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Just wanted to share a crazy experience that may give you a laugh.

I just traded off my granites from my 30g tank, so I figured I'd transfer my malawa into it instead. I changed out the water to drop the ph, and started the netting. Needless to say, since malawa have a much more powerful tail flip, I was having a very difficult time netting larger numbers. 

I started by siphoning the babies through a tube into a shrimp net held above a 5 gallon bucket. I've done this before, so I knew it would work, but I still wasn't catching out the huge number of shrimp I had in there.

After more trials and errors, I finally became so frustrated, I grabbed the tenner they were in with maybe a gallon or two of water left, walked it to the 30g, turned it on it's smaller side and inserted the whole @#%%# thing into the 30g to tip it over and take it out...THAT worked.


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## Lexinverts (Jan 17, 2012)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> Just wanted to share a crazy experience that may give you a laugh.
> 
> I just traded off my granites from my 30g tank, so I figured I'd transfer my malawa into it instead. I changed out the water to drop the ph, and started the netting. Needless to say, since malawa have a much more powerful tail flip, I was having a very difficult time netting larger numbers.
> 
> ...


Now, that's thinking outside the box.

Are you trying to selectively breed Malawa shrimps? They seem to me to be like some of the color-changer shrimps that never seem to respond to selective breeding. Have you gotten anywhere with them?


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## Oceangirl (Feb 5, 2013)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> Just wanted to share a crazy experience that may give you a laugh.
> 
> I just traded off my granites from my 30g tank, so I figured I'd transfer my malawa into it instead. I changed out the water to drop the ph, and started the netting. Needless to say, since malawa have a much more powerful tail flip, I was having a very difficult time netting larger numbers.
> 
> ...


I like it!


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

I culled most of the clearish ones over time. Now I have mostly the darker colored malawa that few seem to sell for some reason. (?) At least every time I added new blood from someone, I've been sold clearish.

Too busy to select beyond that, besides which- even after keeping and breeding these for years, I still can't tell the fems from the males unless berried!


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Oceangirl said:


> I like it!


LOL I wouldn't have done it that way if I only had a hundred or so. :wink:


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## Lexinverts (Jan 17, 2012)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> I culled most of the clearish ones over time. Now I have mostly the darker colored malawa that few seem to sell for some reason. (?) At least every time I added new blood from someone, I've been sold clearish.
> 
> Too busy to select beyond that, besides which- even after keeping and breeding these for years, I still can't tell the fems from the males unless berried!


This is similar to what I am trying to do with the Granites. But, those are easy to sex.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

I really think that is a very good starting point. From there you can further select, but it all is in baby steps.

I think I saw some of the granites you are selectively breeding. Much more beautiful than what I had. Feel free to post some pics here so people know what you are talking about. Us selective breeders have a unique bond. heh


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## nightshadebel (May 3, 2012)

How are the hybrids doing Bryce? Oh and pretty blue tigers?


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

My first time with OEBTs and they slowly died off. I still have two though, I put into the pseudo TiB tank.

The pseudo Tibs are doing great, and even berried a couple times. Berries were lost each time though. I think the ph may be too low in combo with TDS swings. The ph is 6.3 or so and the 3g has to be topped off each day due to evaporation from a fan. The top off is equivalent to a water filled medium pickle jar.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Malawa Taco anyone? :tongue:


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

...And thus explains better than a thousand words why I feed these Malawa every day. That was a 12" leaf.


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

wow. they eat fast. i had probs keeping tigers under a ph of 7. the would drop eggs. one i moved them up in ph they did alot better. even ended up with a few red tiger babies untill i over heated the tank


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

I just got some TT to selectively breed for intense coloration, so we'll see if I can keep these buggers alive at low 7 ph...

Yeah, when you have so many Malawa in a tank (1000+), they need fed often. Their appetites are ravenous!


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

For fun, just took some shots of my starter colony of Nessies. Years of work, time and money finally starting to show. 























Yeah, I'm no speedie, but hopefully these pics are okay. Look better in real life though. Almost look like snakeskin.


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## ProduceGuy (Mar 8, 2013)

OMG! Amazing! Tell me about them. How? What? Where? LOL

I need closer pics!!!!!!!


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

I'm afraid that's the best my camera can do. heh

The mutation originally came from a fire red colony, and I isolated and started breeding them. Took a loooooooooooooooong time to get to this stage using the selective trinity.


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## CheyLillymama22 (Jun 9, 2013)

Wow those nessies are really impressive!
you said they started as a fire red mutation? So they are neos, correct?

Will you be selling these anytime soon?


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Yes, they came indirectly from fire reds.

When I build up the new breeding colony large enough some will be for sale. I *hope* that will be spring of next year, but hopes and reality sometimes are different. LOL


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

they are looking really good bryce keep up the good work man cant wait to try these guys and the sapphires. i would love to get some of the sapphires once i get moved.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Hopefully I'll have some ready by then, my friend.


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

Leave it to you, man! They're great. Awesome job. You'll have done something companies of Asian breeders would kill for.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Thanks. I'm just a hobbyist, but I really appreciate that.


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## nightshadebel (May 3, 2012)

You are the MAN!!


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Thanks. heh I'm just glad the years of work on this strain weren't in vain! Not all of my strains turn out. (Like the plums.)

Anyone want to offer a suggestion on how many I should have as a breeding colony before I start letting some go?


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

to be honest i would get 2 colonies of them going. kinda never hurts to have a back up you know. when i started selling my oebt i waited till i had close to 75 adults before i let the first 6 juvies go.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Not a bad suggestion at all wicca.


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

yeah i got paranoid after i sold some and then lost the whole colony a couple weeks later. ticked me off a year later finally found out why i lost them too. stupid water company was not doing all the test they should have been when i lost them all. oh well i will get more lol. but yeah never hurts to have 2 going with this being a new strain. i would get a 3rd tank started with moss and keep sand in it for a sell tank. as the shrimp babies grow could move them to the sell tank and make it easier to see how many you get. but im just spouting ideas lol


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

perhaps I'll do that. I usually don't have too difficult a time moving shrimp around when the tanks are established and the TDS is around the same.

Sounds to me like I need to get another shrimp rack.


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

lol am i giving you to many ideas lol. belive me if i had the money i would get a set up like the chain stores have. not the filter system but they shelves and tanks. i hate puting the short side out on a 10 i like planted tanks and like to be able to see them and being a big guppy person also they just make more since to have that type of set up. cant wait to see pics of the full racks man lol i need ideas myself


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## Duck5003 (Oct 1, 2012)

Another shrimp rack!! :bounce: lol glad to see all this progress with the Nessies, they really are a beautiful shrimp! 

How true are they breeding for you? All varying shades of green yet or still the occasional color variation? Whatever your doing keep it up, really excited for these guys to hit the market! I would definitely get two colonies going before sale though, just in case especially with these being at the forefront of this color variation.

As always looking forward to following your progress and continued success!


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Thanks guys. 

Duck, these breed almost 100% true now. I do have the odd blue thrown, or the occasional orange tissue, but hopefully with this culling I'll have eliminated that.

It's really kind of cool. The green is actually pigment on the shell and not in the tissue (!)


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## Duck5003 (Oct 1, 2012)

wow thats fantastic news! Shows some serious skills as a breeder  So this should in theory allow you to reach the different grades, eventually getting to sakura...or have you already? Also, how is the consistancy on the range of green? Are you seeing, the better the thickness of the colow is the darker the green, or do you have some that are filling in color thickness with light green, and some dark green?


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## GreenBliss (Mar 7, 2012)

Nessies look awesome.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Thanks greenbliss. 

Duck, the green seems to be uniform where it is layed on the shell. Some have a lighter green and some have a darker green. I'm guessing that has to do with how thick the pigment is laid on. I've had one or two pop out that were entirely covered, but they looked almost black and not that appealing to me. If I want black, give me black. LOL I would be much happier if the painted look was as bright green as some of the cherry looks I have.

I did consider holding onto these until I had a strain of painted, however with the length of time it has taken to get to this point, I feel I'd do a real disservice to the shrimping community if I didn't spread them around. I'm sure others would like to work with them as well.


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## Duck5003 (Oct 1, 2012)

Thanks for all the info  they really are an exciting shrimp! And that's so awesome that your thinking that way on distribution as well (all of my excitement to get some of these shrimp aside lol)

I have to agree though, in my mind you've already done all the legwork to bring us a new color morph which is in itself both incredible and appreciated. The fact that they are breeding near or at 100% true speaks volumes to your efforts and now just comes the fine tuning to create the different grades (which people currently do with other varieties). And with you being "The Mad Shrimp Geneticist", i know painted wont be too far off in the future 

Thanks again for sharing with all of us and i certainly know i cannot wait until these become available!


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

LOL "Mad Shrimper" is more like it. I have never been able to quite grasp the genetics of shrimp...but then again, I really don't know many- if any- that have. 

I've always loved the TB Hulk, but so many change color to KK when they get older. I'm really hoping we can keep a green shell through selective breeding in neo davidi!


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

hehehe you know i would breed with the wasabi when i get some. cant wait to see how this goes.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Well, so far so good. There's the first Nessie babies born, but not very many. Makes me wonder if some eggs were unseen by me when I moved a Nessie over to the new tank. Still no other ladies berried, so they still have to get used to their surrounding- and we all know the uncertainty of how long that may take...


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

i dont think it will take them long. do keep updating. cant wait to get my hands on a pair lol. how are the sapphires doing been a while since we have seen some pics of those and what about the carbon? need more pics lol. once moved you should send me a few and i will take some pics for you lol


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Thanks for the offer. LOL

I'll try to get some pics today maybe.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

As requested, here's a new pic of my sapphires. I have them breeding 100% blue. Some are lighter in coloration, however I'm working toward the darkest I can get without looking black. My 5-10 darkest I've separated to another tank. And these also seem to display the splotchy or dotty pattern. The darkest look almost purple. Dream Rili competition. LOL
















Here's the carbons I currently have. In my opinion rili is a total misname for them as they are more splotches. Some have almost no splotch, while others display it well. However from what I've been able to determine is that all carry the splotchy gene:


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## GreenBliss (Mar 7, 2012)

Wow at the Sapphires. Very pretty.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Thanks. Just like erosion, I slowly keep inching to my goal.


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## SouthernCichlids (Jan 20, 2013)

Sapphires *drool* 
I told you I have a weak spot for blue fish/shrimp haha put me on the list for some of those! Looks like I know what will go in the 10g once the reds are all sold


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Good to know I have people who appreciate my work. Thanks, folks.


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## ndtran (Feb 9, 2013)

Wow beautiful. Keep up the good work. When I get more time and tank space I will own some of your shrimps.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

I hope they'll meet your expectations, my friend.


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

i call dibs on the purpleish sapphires lol. as for the carbons my red and blue rili did the same thing some would be almost like cherry shrimp some would be almost white but all would have a mix of babies. rili in general need heavy culling to keep nice pattern. i had some awsome blue rili that were almost aura blue color with no red and they would give some nice clear bodied red rilis. so i think they all carry the rili gene just some express it better than others


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## meppitech (Apr 29, 2011)

Ive got a tank getting ready right now. Now i just have to decide which neo is for me. Awesome shrimp. Much appreciation for what you do!


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Lots of different kinds for almost every taste. Neos being much easier to keep than cards is a plus, but all the shrimp are beautiful.


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> Thanks. heh I'm just glad the years of work on this strain weren't in vain! Not all of my strains turn out. (Like the plums.)
> 
> Anyone want to offer a suggestion on how many I should have as a breeding colony before I start letting some go?


On a different topic, I would suggest two colonies of 30, then sell additional at $100 each  lol jk. But really, assessing your work, the price should be high.


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## auban (Jun 23, 2012)

whenever you get ready to sell the nessies, hold a few back for me. i would love to buy some so that i can take some close up pics. 

could be interesting to see how those dark greens are produced.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

MABJ said:


> On a different topic, I would suggest two colonies of 30, then sell additional at $100 each  lol jk. But really, assessing your work, the price should be high.


Honestly, I always have a challenge trying to put a price on my work! Never know how to figure it out.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

auban said:


> whenever you get ready to sell the nessies, hold a few back for me. i would love to buy some so that i can take some close up pics.
> 
> could be interesting to see how those dark greens are produced.


Sounds like a plan. I'd like to know too!


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## Gavin288 (May 10, 2013)

i would love to set up a Nessies colony when these little guys come on the market, might have to get a 20L when that happens  i really like the little guys


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Have to get 2 tanks established of them, and then I can offer very limited quantities.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Been a while since I posted. Seems after a few years of selectively breeding shrimp in multiple tanks, fate decided it was my turn to have planaria in a single tank...my Nessie tank. UGH! 

The only thing I changed in my routine was feeding a different food stick to the Nessies, so although no proof- I think it came from the manufacture of that food. I can't give out the name of the food because of reviews not allowed and no proof other than my suspicians, however I CAN say that had I stuck with Jake's Sticks in that particular tank I am convinced I never would have had this problem. This is also why when trying a new routine, try it one one or two tanks and see how it goes before doing it to all your tanks.

I waited for a bit trying to decide what to do, and finally decided on the Fish Bendazole (Fenbendazole powder) route. Unfortunately, shortly after ordering the meds, one of my prize Nessies was attacked and killed by the planaria.

The moral? When seeing a planaria for the first time in your shrimp tank, don't wait too long to make your decision.

When I've dosed tanks with meds before, I've lost shrimp- so perhaps understandably I'm gunshy. I had decided to remove some shrimp before dosing, however some of the materials I had read said that there is a chance for shrimp to carry hyda/planaria without ever being able to see them. I refuse to even have the possibility for someone else to receive an "infection" through me, so to leave the shrimp in there during meds is a no brainer for me. Even if the info is wrong, I feel safer eliminating any possibility of contagion.

I'll let everyone know how this turns out.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Back to selective breeding. I've taken my DBV off-line right now and decided the time is right to do another culling for even darker. The DBV lights and ones not dark enough did not make the DBV tank, so I've put them with my BVs. 

This should allow me to try to get a shade darker with my DBV, but it also means I have to wait while some babies grow to decide where to put them. 

Also did some selection of the best yellows from my own strain of yellows to improve color. I've been very satisfied with the hardiness of them, but my color of yellows definitely needs work.

Other selections have taken place as well...Colony building time again.

I had to take every tank off one of my racks to reorient it and put them back on again. Took an 6-10 hr day to do that and another week or so to finish filling the tanks to full again. The shrimp will take a little while to get into breeding mode again, however this will provide more space for me. And we all know how important that selective breeding trinity is!

My wife suggested that I get two more racks since I was having such problems selecting the shrimp I had with my current set up. I jumped at that suggestion, so now much of this week is reorganizing my backroom where the kids also play on computer and trying to fit in new shelving.

It's a nice problem to have. heh


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## Duck5003 (Oct 1, 2012)

"My wife suggested that I get two more racks since I was having such problems selecting the shrimp I had with my current set up. I jumped at that suggestion, so now much of this week is reorganizing my backroom where the kids also play on computer and trying to fit in new shelving."

What a suggestion!!!! lol you got a keeper for sure


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

i want pics of this new rack and the 2 you will be putting up


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

We'll see. LOL I'm very self conscious about my room since it is not real pretty like some I have seen.

However, having said that, This is the rack system I use: http://www.menards.com/main/see-mor...helf-steel-shelving-kit/p-1468730-c-13051.htm

I then add 3/4 osb or waferboard over the wire on the shelves to add additional non-needed strength.

I've been setting up both racks today. Tanks/airlines, etc will come later as it is just plan too expensive to get all in one go.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Took two treatments, but it looks as if the planaria is gone. Whew. Good riddance!

In other news, I looked in my Nessie tank yesterday and one of my Nessies was navy blue! Later it turned back to green. Apparently they are able to change their coloration. The reason why it wanted to change is still unknown. This is the first time I've been able to confirm this. I had been culling any blues that popped up previously. Ooops!

---

I thought this may be of interest to some. Some of my carbons display less pigment on their "black" making the blue more obvious. I'm not breeding for the Fire Blue color, but thought it may be of some interest if anyone were to try. My camera did not catch the blue tissue in the middle.


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

check your tds that is what my battle cat shrimp did. it might also be a food related thing. only other thing that comes to mind is something like the marble gene in betta that let them change colors. i hope you can figure it out. nothin like color changing shrimp. oh by the way i love the shimp in that pic its nice looking


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## AlisaR (Dec 7, 2011)

I love those sapphires!


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

wicca27 said:


> check your tds that is what my battle cat shrimp did. it might also be a food related thing. only other thing that comes to mind is something like the marble gene in betta that let them change colors. i hope you can figure it out. nothin like color changing shrimp. oh by the way i love the shimp in that pic its nice looking


Thanks. The TDS was the same because the color changed within 15 minutes of me seeing her.

Shrimp with marble genes? That would be very interesting indeed!


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

AlisaR said:


> I love those sapphires!


So do I, my friend. In fact, I'm seriously considering giving my Blue Diamonds up totally, so I can focus on my Sapphire Blues that came from my mutations. Some are splotched, and some are not splotched. Truthfully, two strains could probably be made from these. Got them breeding 100% blue, and I fall more in love with them each time I see them. Absolutely gorgeous...but then again, I'm biased. LOL

I'll try to get some more pics of them just for you!


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## Duck5003 (Oct 1, 2012)

Love that pic! Cant wait for more  Your saphire line is really nice. It's interesting you say that about the blue diamonds, but understandable in your quest for truly blue shrimp. 

There is so much variation with blue diamonds and for me its hard to place blue in their title as it seems like i see mostly black/brown with blue intermixed. I have some berried now so it will be interesting to see how future generations produce. They are said to "breed true" i guess im just not sure what true is with them! What kinds of patterns/colors have you seen with your BD colony?


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Chocolate, black, black with blue, blue and the occasional red. I decided I need more room for my Sapphire line project after all, so I'm letting all my Blue Diamonds go for less than what I paid for them in the WTS section. *shrugs* I lose some money, but I gain some much needed tank space.


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

but you will make up any money lost with the BD when you get the nessies and sapphires selling. its long term thinking in this case


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

I guess I do have to think in the long run that way. In the short run I get another tank for selection.


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## Lexinverts (Jan 17, 2012)

Duck5003 said:


> Love that pic! Cant wait for more  Your saphire line is really nice. It's interesting you say that about the blue diamonds, but understandable in your quest for truly blue shrimp.
> 
> There is so much variation with blue diamonds and for me its hard to place blue in their title as it seems like i see mostly black/brown with blue intermixed. I have some berried now so it will be interesting to see how future generations produce. They are said to "breed true" i guess im just not sure what true is with them! What kinds of patterns/colors have you seen with your BD colony?


When people say they "breed true" it means that they pass on blue coloration genetically, rather than picking it up from the environment. Previous strains of blue shrimp, like Neocaridina palmata, didn't produce blue offspring at all. When I describe my Blue Diamonds, I say that they breed 50-70% true, meaning that they produce lots of colors besides blue.
Some of the ones that are dark blue, appear black under poor lighting, so that might be affecting your perception a little.


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## Lexinverts (Jan 17, 2012)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> Chocolate, black, black with blue, blue and the occasional red. I decided I need more room for my Sapphire line project after all, so I'm letting all my Blue Diamonds go for less than what I paid for them in the WTS section. *shrugs* I lose some money, but I gain some much needed tank space.


That's too bad. I think that you got a bad batch from the start. I remember you saying that none of them were blue in the first place. I was lucky, and almost all of my original breeders were nice and blue.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Lex, I readily admit they are pretty shrimp, and especially nice for those who want a rainbow tank of different colors without being worried about throwing wilds.

It's just much easier for me to selectively breed shrimp that throw one color, so it makes it much simpler to know what to aim for. LOL

On the flipside, you will be one of the only sellers now with BD, so I know who to refer others to who come to me for them later.


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## Lexinverts (Jan 17, 2012)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> Lex, I readily admit they are pretty shrimp, and especially nice for those who want a rainbow tank of different colors without being worried about throwing wilds.
> 
> It's just much easier for me to selectively breed shrimp that throw one color, so it makes it much simpler to know what to aim for. LOL
> 
> On the flipside, you will be one of the only sellers now with BD, so I know who to refer others to who come to me for them later.


I think that if I keep culling mine that they will eventually breed close to 100% true. We'll see.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

More power to ya, my friend. I think yours will increase in hardiness as well considering the BDs were very sensitive when they first arrived.


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## Duck5003 (Oct 1, 2012)

Thanks for some clarification lexi! They really are a beautiful shrimp and i'm excited to see what future generations hold. To be honest i'm very partial to the black shrimp (or super dark blue) and hope to get more of these. Out of my group from you i have 2 that i would classify as solid black, and one other that is mostly black with some lighter coloration towards the belly and i have them in their own little group so we'll see what comes of it. 

Soothing-definitely understand the BD sacrifice, i'm sure whoever gets them from you will be very happy. I personally think your saphire line is great and really hope those continue to come together for ya so i think you made a good call


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Duck, keep us updated on the blacks. Told ya selective breeding was addictive.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

So, I've decided to try an experiment with some of my yellows. It involves spirulina powder. Anyone know what my experiment may be?


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## Oceangirl (Feb 5, 2013)

didn't someone else feed their shrimp solely spirulina and they all turned green?


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

LOL Bingo! Gonna try it just for fun. I have about a dozen yellow shrimp of various grades and ages ranging from newborn to adult that I have separated into a 2g tank. Stripes and non stripes. Going to feed Spirulina and take a pic every day to document what happens.

Not all yellow shrimp turn color for some reason. It will be interesting to see if mine do.

Day 1


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## Oceangirl (Feb 5, 2013)

I concur. Let us see what happens....duh.duh....duuuh!


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Lmao!!!!


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

i fed mind spirulina and never got a change but for some reason it did help bring out the blue in my rili and oebt. my yellows came from hca though so not sure where her original stock came from


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Yepper. I've heard from some that spirulina does not affect their yellows , while others have shown pictures that it has.

I think it is important for me to see if it has any effect on my own strain of yellows or not.

Fed yesterday. So far so change. I will stick to my regular feeding schedule with them- every other day with weekends off, and see how long it takes to change color if ever. I'm only feeding spirulina.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

One week has gone by and no sign of my yellows "greening" up yet on their diet of pure spirulina M, W, F.

Going to keep this up for at *least* a month and see if I see any observable results.


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## KristenP (Sep 1, 2013)

I just read through most of this thread and wow, your dedication/knowledge/obsessiveness is amazing with these shrimp! I am just in awe of your varieties. I have one little 14 gallon shrimp tank with boring old RCS, but this thread gives me such ideas. lol

If you ever decide to sell any of those yellows, even culls, I'd love to get some.

Nice work. Very inspiring.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Thanks for the kudos KristenP. 

I'm glad this thread is giving you ideas. I began writing it to inspire others. I'm just a hobbyist, but I really love doing this. heh


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## Xforce (Aug 17, 2011)

Great thread :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
for your experiment with the yellows if I may suggest try to replace the 
Spirulina with Astaxanthin in the next week and than see what will happens :red_mouth


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Yepper, you read my mind.  Going to keep this going for a while first to satisfy my own curiosity. Then I'll switch to Astaxanthin powder for phase 2.


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

I'll be watching this experiment with great interest. Don't want my yellows to change color, but I want to feed them the good stuff.  

Out of curiosity... how much room in your 2 gallon tank does that sponge filter take up? I've been considering getting some of those...


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

It's actually a 2.5g tank from petsmart. http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=11164158&f=PAD/psNotAvailInUS/No

I tend to forget whether it is a 1.5 or 2.5 so I often call it a 2g to be safe. LOL

I don't love them, but I *do* have them for tiny projects.

I wish the price on them were cheaper. For the same price I could buy a tenner tank, but it's the light hoods on the tenners that end up adding cost. The economy hoods are around $25 for a tenner, while the 2.5g saves space for tiny projects and comes with a little glass "canopy"- really just a pane of glass that fits in the top. You have to add lighting. I found a $5 desk lamp from Menards works just fine.

In a nutshell, a bare bones tank + econ hood tenner kit from Petsmart is $30, while a 2.5g with glass lid is $15. Add a light and you only save about $10 or less, but you can fit 2-4 tanks (depending on orientation) in the place of 1 large one.

You could use the small fry sponge filters for these, but I prefer to go overboard with a tenner double sponge filter. It takes up half the back, and I remove the inside sliding telescopic tube on top to make it below the water line, but it really does a great job.


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

Yeah, I've got two of those 2.5g (currently my shrimp tanks). I have HOB filters on them, but they seem to be slowly dying... I've rinsed out the media sponges (in tank water, not tap), and played around with the rest of the doodads in them, but no matter what I do, the flow has reduced to a mere dribble. Perhaps I'm just not mechanically inclined. I had a small sponge filter sitting around, so I put it in one of the tanks to build up its bacteria colony and ordered another one similar to it, but was ogling those lovely double sponges. I was concerned they wouldn't fit well in a 2.5 gallon. I may have to order some to keep on hand for future use now.  Thanks!


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

I'll be glad to share whatever I can that has worked for me.


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

Thanks! I'm not even sure if I know how to explain it.  I guess I'll dismantle one today and play around with it some more. I'll ask later if I come up with anything.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Sounds fair to me. heh

-----

So a surprising development has happened in one of my Nessie tanks. It looks as if I have some "rust" colored juvies. This is extremely weird and has never happened before that I know of. Their distant relative is Fire Red. Could some keys on the loci have lined up just right to revert? Or will they gain some Nessie coloration and be a green and orange shrimp? This will be extremely interesting to watch.

I'll isolate them later- perhaps this week- however for the moment they'll stay where there are. Here's a really bad photo of one of them, with a dark Nessie juvie in the blurry background.


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

Oooh... interesting! I'll be watching this one. You've been doing Nessies for awhile now, right?


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Trying to create the strain since 2011. That selective breeding trinity can eat ya alive in both bad and good ways. :icon_conf

At this rate it will still be another year until I can start letting small quantities go. *shrugs* Such is life.

I could have just bred them and had a bunch ready to go, but I'd rather take some time and make sure people get a quality shrimp. It would break my heart if anyone was disappointed with them.


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

And that's why you grow such incredible shrimp. I'll live vicariously through you and just buy some when I have a free tank.  

Hmmm. Petco is having their $1/gallon sale. Where could I put another one?


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Careful mosspearl, or you'll start think about filling your whole room with tanks. LOL


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

Too late. I would if I could. LOL My office already has 3 (I work at home). Living room has 1. If I didn't need my printer, I'd have another one in here.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Something interesting to note. My carbons appear to have two different colors for pigmentation on the shell.

One is a very dark blue that shows up as black. When not as much pigmentation is expressed, it appears fire blue.

However when working on my ink blots, there also appears to be a true black. When not as much pigmentation is expressed, it appears charcoal. NOT blue.

So for now it appears there IS a true black that can be present after all.
---

I need your knowledge: I'm looking for a transhipper to receive an import from Canada. Does anyone know of anyone to recommend? Please pm me.

.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

I thought I'd share a little about my Nessies and take a couple photos to find out what people think about moving in the painted quality direction. 

In other words, which is your favorite? Tank 2 (cherry quality), or tank 1 (more painted)?

Here's tank number 2 that holds the lesser quality Nessies at the moment. You can see that the green is cherry quality with light that tends to show through the hood, etc. The occasional orange is thrown, which is weird because the Nessie displays no tissue pigment. Sometimes a Nessie even has an orangish body with green shell. Very weird.















Moving more to the higher quality, the pigment is thicker and starts becoming more painted in tank number 2. The light does not show through the shell and the green is very dark- almost black. I've not seen any oranges thrown from the higher quality ones. I actually used flash here.








So? Which is your favorite look?


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## Duck5003 (Oct 1, 2012)

Looking good!! That's a tough call on which one to choose. I love the lighter green on the lower grade. Its hard to say its a shame they dont retain that lighter color as it thickens, because the dark ones look awesome. Almost an olive color, but it would be great if there was a line for both. If it doesnt look like there is a chance that you can have a painted dark green and painted lime green, i would say still keep both anyway. You see it with CRS/CBS, some people like "high-grade" with the dominant color being white while others prefer the "lower-grade" that have more red/black. However both are beautiful shrimp regardless of "grade." (IMO) 

Thanks for sharing the pics, they are really coming together nicely


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

Ooh, I like the lower grade Nessies. As my daughter said, they look like glass! Very cool! I like the darker ones, too, but if I were picking which ones to go in my tank, it would be the lighter ones.


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## nightshadebel (May 3, 2012)

I like the lighter ones too. your doing a great job Bryce


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## CheyLillymama22 (Jun 9, 2013)

Personally I like the lighter ones. I like the way it looks when some light shines through the color.


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## Oceangirl (Feb 5, 2013)

OooooH! I love that GREEN!! No wonder they are nessies!!


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

i kinda like the lighter green for the fact you can really tell its green. wish i could see in person, my computer does not show true colors to well.


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## ren (May 19, 2010)

Woah they look awesome. So whens the eta for these guys, I want to play with a bunch. MOAR PAINTED PICTURES PLEASE!


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

I have less than 10 in tank number 1 and around 15 in tank number 2, so it will be a little while until I can raise the colonies in the tanks.

For the record, I like the lower grades better, too.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Update on my yellow experiment feeding Spirulina. Nothing to note. Still the same low grade yellows with no greenish tint. 

Conclusion: Apparently my yellows don't have what's needed in the genes to cause green from Spirulina.

Starting next week, I'll feed regular diet again to get back to "ground zero" starting point, and then the following week start Astaxanthin.


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## peachii (Jun 1, 2013)

The nessies, i love either one. I think the darker one is my favorite because dark green is my color but the light green is beautiful. I'd kill to have either one in my tanks, really can't wait until you start selling them.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

I'm eager to start getting them into the hands of people too, peachii. 

Admittedly, part of it is I'd like to get back at least part of the trinity I put into the project. 

The other is a bit of paranoia. If something happens and my tanks crash, the genetics won't be wiped out if other people are able to continue to breed them. (!) I've put so much blood, sweat and tears into these, I really don't want them lost.


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## Cynical Fish Guy (Feb 19, 2012)

Quick question.... Can a 1 gallon tank be used as a start up shrimp colony? Its an aqueon, and I have it lying around. I even have fresh carbon filters for it.... I was thinking of a way I could use the 1 gal tank. Cherry shrimp don't get that big, and I was thinking they might do fine in the 1 gallon tank. Thoughts? If I put cherrys or anything other than 33 cent ghost shrimp in the tank there will be no fish! Just java fern or something similar. My other option is killi fish, and there is a local pet store that sells them....and will special order killifish, if I want....


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Yepper. Neos will do fine in a 1 gallon. I have some 20+ BV in a one gallon plastic corner aquarium now and they are almost constantly berried. 

Keep in mind unless you use a sponge filter, you'll need a prefilter sponge or SS screen over the intake of your filter so the shrimp don't get sucked in.

Also, cheap moss is great to provide extra "floor space" and grazing food.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

I wanted to share a little find I did recently.

I begun using an air manifold for running airlines to my separate racks. 

Air manifolds are used for ponds basically, and have a ~9/16"- 5/8" hole in the end to hook the bigger hose onto.

If we bastardize it a little it works great for our needs. Run the in line to one wide open valve and then use the other valves for out lines. 

This means we need to plug the hole. I know from experience a cork doesn't work. It acts like a giant pop gun. LOL POP! Whoosh!!!

So, I did a little jerry rig from a water bottle cap and tape for quite a while:









Problem with this is some air leaks around under the tape because of such pressure. I left it like this for quite some time, until months later I had an idea and browsed Ebay to find it...

Several hours later I found a boat plugs. Hey, if it works for boats, it has to work for this, right? Now I had a different challenge. I could either order the 9/16" or 5/8". At 4.95 they come in a two pack w/free shipping, so if I goofed, I could try the other. I went with the 5/8". I knew it would be snug, but I really wanted to block as much airflow as I could.









Came in the mail about a week later or so, and it is indeed a very tight fit. A bit of water around the inside edge of the manifold and around the rubber of the plug helps it slide in a bit better, but some force is still needed. Flip the lever, and VOILA! PERFECT! Now THAT'S what I'm talkin' about!









Heck, it looks a lot better, too!


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

That's very cool... and much sexier looking than the plastic 4 way gang valve I have running for the sponge filters in my tanks. Eek! I think this hobby is making me learn mechanical things! Thank goodness we have experts to pave the way!


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

LOL Believe me I'm no expert, but I like to experiment and explore new ideas along the way.


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

your on your way to being another mad DK thinker lol


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Not even close. LOL I'm not nearly as smart as she is!

---

An interesting note is that my spirulina yellows have yellowed up again now that they are on regular food. The spirulina faded them, but didn't turn them green. I don't expect that would cause any problem with my yellows in food though, since spirulina would be only a small amount in a recipe.

Still waiting for the other "food" to arrive. In the meantime, they are back on regular food.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Just a quickie pic of a Malawa or two on a leaf.


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

Just one or two, huh?


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## VJM (Feb 9, 2013)

Do you think a bit of turmeric in their food would be safe? Seems a great color enhancer. 

Darn it, now I want to make my own shrimp food.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Don't know about that one, VJM. Perhaps you should experiment? 

My journal is here to help inspire others, since I am no better than anyone else. I say go for it.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

I started today with using astaxanthin powder for my yellow experiment. I'm thinking we'll see a result, but I don't know how long it will take yet.

Day 1 Sept 30, 2013


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

is this the one that bring out the reds in fish?


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Yep. Turns fish flesh red and brightens red colors. Discus use this to brighten the red, and salmon use this commercially to have a bright pink flesh for better aesthetics.

Rolled oats can bring out the blue in fish. Go figure.


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

Hmmm. Has anyone added rolled oats to food for blue shrimp? My brain is intrigued.


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

really rolled oats huh! ive always wondered what made fish more blue. im a blue and purple fish person so that info comes in handy.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Not sure of the chemical that does it. It is supposed to help very well though.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

After 1 feeding on Monday the yellow shrimp some are starting to turn blue. Or rather their tissue is. I fed again today and will continue until the end of the month.

Perhaps the tissue turning blue with any yellow pigment makes the green I heard happens? Time will tell...


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

The astaxanthin powder is turning them blue? Curious!


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

yepper. And that's just after one feeding. I'm anxious to see just how colorful they'll be after a month. I tried to get a photo, but it's really wacky. I can see some are turning blue in person, but in the camera they still look yellow. Must have something to do with light wavelengths or something. (?)


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

Very interesting. Look forward to seeing how it goes. Hopefully the camera will show the difference as the month goes on.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

I'm sure it will. It's just subtle right now methinks. Fed them again today so by teh end of the week hopefully I can snap a pic.

This is also to see if we can see any differences in a natural color and a food induced color so fraudulent shrimp are not sold.


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## Oceangirl (Feb 5, 2013)

*...*

Which type of shrimp appears blue and doesn't breed blue? Isn't it the Blueberry shrimp? This is perhaps how they make them blue for sale?


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Oceangirl, this may be a distinct possibility. Although palmata, the Blueberries can look bright blue, however much of the time they look like brown wilds with a touch of blue. As you know in the home aquarium they tend to lose their coloration and do not breed true. Food either in the wild or in captivity may play a large part in their blue color.

There is the other school of thought that they are much like the babaulti and can vary widely in color naturally with the blue being rare. IN my mind this doesn't add up though since even when bred together the blue doesn't continue.


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## Oceangirl (Feb 5, 2013)

I agree. I remember someone a while back fooled by "pretty blue shrimp for sale" and was bait and switched for these blue shrimp that lost the color and bred ugly babies. I only remember this because I was just starting to wonder if I would like to try shrimp. I don't remember where the person got them, but I do remember they were sad to see the blue go.


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

are you only playing with yellow shrimp and food bryce or are you trying it on other colors too? wonder what the out come would be with other colors like the carbon and bbrr?


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

I have thought about those, wicca.  Giving to BBRR maybe my next project for next month.

I must admit, I have some reservations sharing this data for fear that people will use it for fraudulent sales.


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

That would be awful if they did. I think my BV are very blue as they are. No enhancement needed!


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

I have no problem if people would like to use anything in their tanks to enhance coloration. heh Hey, your shrimp, your tanks. It's fine.

I just have a HUGE problem if people were to use something to color their shrimp and sell them as natural.


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

Well, that's the crux right there. As long as it stays in your own tank, enjoy.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

yepper. 

In other news, finally got around to ordering a plastic hood for my 55g today. $65 on sale from $95. I was putting it off, but since I rigged my 4 output air pump to deliver air to two hydro V sponge filters, the evaporation rate is crazy. I just topped it off with 5g of water after only a week!


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

Congrats! So do you use it as a whole 55g or do you divide it up into separate shrimp quarters?


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

I have more than 20 red claw shrimp in a 20 tall that I would like to move over to the 55g so they have more room. Since I found out they eat hair algae, I've been moving moss over for them to take care of. They love hiding in it and burrowing under it as well, so plenty of hiding space and not as crowded as it could be because of using the extra "ladder" space.

Keep in mind these shrimp can grow 3-4 inches.

I've been seasoning the tank, plan to add bacteria next week, throws some moss w/hair algae in and let them enjoy the new space.


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

Looked those up... fascinating! Hope they like their new home.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

I'm sure they will. I'm going to be careful moving them over though so I don't blow the bacteria away wit the bioload. LOL I'd rather be overly careful than lose any of the red claws.

Also once moved over, I'm hoping the berries occur more frequently. Plus, the added space will allow the babies more area to cover to increase health. I'm thinking about adding clay flower pots as well to have more "floor" area and hides.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Yellow experiment update...

Day 5, 3rd feeding. Changes are more noticeable now. The ones more saturated with blue so far are the ones that were poor quality yellow to begin with. The higher quality yellows are beginning to show coloration turn as well.


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

Wow. Wonder how long it will take them to turn back.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

I'm going to continue feeding them this until the end of the month. I'm guessing it may take a month of regular food to turn them back, but we'll see. heh


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Seems I have a plum in my mixed rili tank. (Purple) Not surprised. It's been my theory for a long time that plums are caused by blue tissue under fire red pigment.

A true purple could be created if blue and red could co-exist on the shell.


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

Pictures??


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

I don't think it's rare. I just think that often the blue tissue is masked by dense pigmentation on the shell.

I'll see if I can get a pic soon.


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

i would love to see a pic as well, if you want later on i can dig up a pic of my purple rili, the red on the rili was like the first cherries, thin color but uniform. and the tissue was a blueish purple color so they looked really cool. never had them breed true or any where close to it. i got a mix from awesome red rili to blue velvet from the line i had


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Now you know I'm going to have to get picky and ask whether it was BV or Blue Rili that was thrown. 
---

So I come into my shrimp room this morning looking over the tanks and I notice something missing from my marble cray tank...my marble cray. :eek5:

She just had babies the day before yesterday, so she was probably stressed out with them all over (they don't eat their young).

However figured she was probably dead by now.

I moved some boxes, looked under the impossibly hard to get at back bottom shelf by the wall, and there she was. Still alive! So, I got my 16" hemostats and grabbed ahold of her claw and pulled her out. Took two attempts, but I got her. I immediately dropped her into some water from another tank that was "on hold." She's doing well so far. Covered in fluff, but okay. heh It's ME that was caught off guard.

Oh well. She's in a tank to herself right now, and the babies in a separate tank. Better that way anyway. :redface:


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Update on yellow experiment. Started Sept 30, today is Oct 8 and I've noticed some interesting things.

The blue shrimp still have bright yellow stripes on the backs. Seems this has not been affected at all yet.








Note also that the lower grade yellows seem to be more easily affected. The higher grade yellow has no results to speak of as yet. Now is this because of higher grade? Or a natural "immunity" to the food?
























Also, some seem to have more tissue affected than others. The shell is affected firstly as can be see in the first pic, and then tissue quality. The first pic above shows a bluish transparent shell with yellow tissue for instance. Uncertain if the tissue is actually turning blue or fading some yellow.


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## CheyLillymama22 (Jun 9, 2013)

So interesting!

I wonder if oranges would be affected similarly


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

I'm guessing yes- if lower quality, although I have no proof. Seems to me yellows and oranges would be related.

Another question would be: Is the blue working because of the spacing between yellow pigment- thus allowing the blue to become visible and fill between the yellow giving the IMPRESSION of changing the yellow? 

If so, that would explain why the higher quality yellow is not giving the impression of being affected. Because there are not as many "gaps" between yellow pigment for the blue to fill.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

My 55g sprung a huge leak last night. Thankfully I was right beside it when it happened. Now I'm only going to use it for plants as opposed to red claws.


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

Oh no! Were you able to stop it?


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

this is where auban would come in handy with his microscope. to look at the chromatiphors. that would be the only real way to know for sure what is really going on. is very interesting though thanks for posting. oh hey i have a question bryce, does this color change happen equally in both sexes or are the males more affected due to them having less yellow pigment to start with?


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

mosspearl said:


> Oh no! Were you able to stop it?


Yeah, but going to use it for immersed (sp?) plants (1" water or so) now instead because I don't trust it anymore.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

wicca27 said:


> this is where auban would come in handy with his microscope. to look at the chromatiphors. that would be the only real way to know for sure what is really going on. is very interesting though thanks for posting. oh hey i have a question bryce, does this color change happen equally in both sexes or are the males more affected due to them having less yellow pigment to start with?


Doesn't matter the gender as long as low quality, it appears.

Yeah, auban came to my mind as well. LOL


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

A quick update picture on the yellow experiment. Day 10:


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

Wow, you've got some extremely green shrimp there!


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

More blue than green, but yeah. Very definite color shift.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

So regarding my Painted Nessies, I'm not happy with the amount of time it is taking for berries. I don't see any males in there with a possible exception of a juvie (?), so I moved two adult regular male Nessies over to try to get some berries. When I have enough Painted Nessie males from offspring, I can then cull through the tank and remove all non-painteds to the regular Nessie tank.


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## auban (Jun 23, 2012)

if i were to hazard a guess, i would say that the green/blue does not come from chromatophores or iridiphors. i would guess that it comes from the tissue blue, which i suspect comes from an increase in hemocyanin, which uses copper to transport oxygen instead of the iron that we use in our hemoglobin. 

apparently, astaxanthin is produced in cells in order to deal with oxidative stress from too much metals.
https://aiche.confex.com/aiche/2006/techprogram/P45638.HTM

so, if the food is supplemented with algae that has a lot of it, they probably have a decent amount of copper as well. but, in a different form than the chileated copper that is usually added to foods.


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## auban (Jun 23, 2012)

forgot to add...

i would expect the lower grade shrimp to be the ones most affected IF the increased blue comes from increased hemocyanin. 

it would make sense if the difference between the high grade shrimp and the low grade shrimp is the same kind of difference i noticed between high and low grade cherries, which is simply the extent at which the chromatophores cover the body.

with high grade shrimp, the chromatophores might just branch out too much to see anything beneath them.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Thanks for chiming in here auban.  So is the shell considered a "tissue" ? If so, I wonder is it is a different kind of tissue? 

The shell is definitely affected by turning blue. I still see a yellow under body beneath the shell though. And the stripe on the shell seems largely unaffected.


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## auban (Jun 23, 2012)

well, thats the thing... blue can come from iridiphores, which are tiny little granules that are located pretty close to the surface. i dont think there are any chromatophores located in the actual shell, they all seem to be directly beneath it. every time they molt, the branches of the chromatophores expand a little bit.

the blue in the tissue doesnt seem to come from anything that is large enough to be seen under my microscope, so im assuming it comes from hemocyanin. i could be wrong, but most of my own observations would suggest this. 

when you see blue showing up in concentrated spots, or a clearly visible pattern, its usually a concentration of iridiphores. that said, i have seen an odd blue streak along the digestive tract, and im not sure what causes that. whatever it is, it can change when the environment changes. when i exposed some pretty bland shrimp to low oxygen levels for extended periods of time, the blue streak showed up, and when i returned them to normal waters, it came back. 

now, the stripe on the back, if its like the stripe on my cherry shrimp, i think its caused by something in the actual shell. looking at some molted shells, i still see an opalescence along where the stripe is. i wouldnt expect them to be able to change the structures that cause the opalescence at will, since its located in the actual shell.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

You may very well be correct. However I'm still confused. The very very first thing that gets colored are the edges of the shell segments. Is tissue with iridiphores attached all the way to the edge of the shell?

(Man, I'm lacking in shrimp anatomy knowledge.)


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## auban (Jun 23, 2012)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> You may very well be correct. However I'm still confused. The very very first thing that gets colored are the edges of the shell segments. Is tissue with iridiphores attached all the way to the edge of the shell?
> 
> (Man, I'm lacking in shrimp anatomy knowledge.)


not sure what you are asking... if you are talking about depth, then yes, the tissue directly beneath the shell has all of the color(chromatophore and iridiphore). 

if you mean the edges of each segment of shell(which is what i think your asking) i would say that depends on the shrimps genetics and varies from one to the other. 

that said, the one place i usually dont see many iridiphores is the very edges of the shell under the belly. some shrimp dont seem to have iridiphores at all, just chromatophores. 

for instance, i never found any iridiphores on this cherry shrimp:









but the chromatophores can obviously stretch into some pretty thin tissue.


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## Guest (Oct 12, 2013)

*wild colors!*

Just what I was looking for! Okay so I've been breeding shrimp for the past half year, and I just love them! But as of recently I noticed that my cherries have been changing into random colors. Originally I got about 1/3 red cherries and the 2/3 of pure wild strains because while I like colors I did want a good bit to be able to camoflauge (cause I do love German Blue Rams ((though they will pick off one or two on occasion (mostly small ones as the adults are so ballsy they'll jump on the back of our Redline sharks and ride them like surf boards xD they also seem to like to play 'bull jump the gourami' with our three spot (fat as heck) gourami))) Anyways I've been getting black, chocolate, bright red(of course), clears, oranges, blues, even some dark greens (rarest of the bunch with oranges). Haven't gotten purple or yellow yet, can't wait to see those though!


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Absolutely fascinating! Thank you!

I wonder why the tissue on the shell is affected and not the inner body?


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## auban (Jun 23, 2012)

well, the rabbit hole just got a bit deeper for me. all this time i was thinking that the iridiphores were something all their own. i had always seen them as little granules. now im thinking that they actually contain the same stuff as whatever it is that turns blue deep inside the shrimps tissues. 

they just happen to contain it in neat little shiny blue spots. 

i saw one of my dark shrimp had blue swimmerets. so, i took it out, euthanized it, and dissected it. the swimmerets....









looks kinda like iridiphors around the shell right?
kinda like the blue spots on the tail?










well, i decided to crush the sample i had to squeeze the iridiphores out.
they evaporated. :/


















so, i looked at a shell fragment to see if the iridiphors would evaporate there too.









YEP!
crap, i need to rethink what i think i might know about what i think i might be seeing...

im starting to think that those blue spots are just areas where the shrimps body doesnt have anything else present, and its just spots that represent the space between, where the blood flows. 
and if thats the case, anything that makes them blue in any way will make any blue shrimp bluer. 
i tried taking pics of the muscle tissue, but its so clear its practically invisible.
i love being caught off guard. now i got questions that need answerin'


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## auban (Jun 23, 2012)

all that to say,

you should try the super blue food on some already blue shrimp and see what happens.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

yeah. I think I'm going to set up a 1.5g sample tank of different var of shrimp and see how it affects them. A Malawa or two included.

As far as my yellow experiement, I was going to go until the end of OCT, but after only ~10 days or so, my experiemnt has been pretty successful- so I'm going to end it. 

As mosspearl asked, "I wonder how many days it will take for them to revert back? It won't be super scientific because there's probably some powder left in the substrate, and I'm not going to switch it out, but it will be interesting none the less.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

blue in iridiophores is from purines and pteridines - at least in reptiles. but i imagine pigmentation is relatively conserved evolutionarily.

purines in the diet has some connection to gout, so its easy to find lists of food high in purines. feeding more carretinoids (used in xanthophores for red and orange) like astaxanthin makes animals more red, so feeding purines and pteridines should increase blues and greens. 
here is what i found on foods:
Foods with very high purine levels(up to 1,000 mg per 3.5 ounce serving):	Anchovies, Brains, Gravies, Kidneys,Liver, Sardines, Sweetbreads
Foods with high and moderately high purine levels(5-100 mg per 3.5 ounch serving):	Asparagus, Bacon, Beef, Bluefish, Bouillon, Calf tongue, Carp, Cauliflower, Chicken, Chicken soup, Codfish, Crab, Duck, Goose, Halibut, Ham, Kidney beans, Lamb, Lentils, Lima beans, Lobster, Mushrooms, Mutton, Navy beans, Oatmeal, Oysters, Peas, Perch, Pork, Rabbit, Salmon, Sheep, Shellfish, Snapper, Spinach, Tripe, Trout, Tuna, Turkey, Veal, Venison 
some are obviously poor choices for shrimp tanks, such as those of terrestrial animal origin, and those that are too expensive. but others, even if high in protein could be used as part of the diet. spinach, asparagus, anchovies, and mushrooms could all be incorporated into the diet without much of an issue.
yeast isnt mentioned, but i believe it also is high in purines, and is an excellent addition to most diets.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Marko, thanks for your post. 

The yellow shrimp have turned blue from astaxanthin powder.


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## auban (Jun 23, 2012)

@[email protected] said:


> blue in iridiophores is from purines and pteridines - at least in reptiles. but i imagine pigmentation is relatively conserved evolutionarily.
> 
> purines in the diet has some connection to gout, so its easy to find lists of food high in purines. feeding more carretinoids (used in xanthophores for red and orange) like astaxanthin makes animals more red, so feeding purines and pteridines should increase blues and greens.
> here is what i found on foods:
> ...


i was thinking of reptile iridiphores when i first saw the little blue dots... but i had never killed a shrimp and squeezed those little blue dots out before. 

after having done so, and seeing the results, i have to assume that i was wrong. iridiphores wouldnt dissipate in the same manner as the blue substance i was viewing. 

on a side note, you named all the things i couldn't eat when my kidneys and liver both shut down as a result of exertional rhabdomyolysis...


im starting to think its just a concentration of hemocyanin that makes shrimp blue. they have an open circulatory system, without any actual blood cells. apparently, its just a solution of hemocyanin being pumped around the body.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> Marko, thanks for your post.
> 
> The yellow shrimp have turned blue from astaxanthin powder.


how? im confused...
astaxanthin is a deep red carretinoid. it gives lobsters their red coloration... what would make it turn the shrimp blue?


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

That's what I and auban are stumped about. LOL


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## shrimpo (Aug 2, 2009)

This picture is from blogs.uoregon.edu I don't know if this will help or can be applied to shrimp.


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## auban (Jun 23, 2012)

@[email protected] said:


> how? im confused...
> astaxanthin is a deep red carretinoid. it gives lobsters their red coloration... what would make it turn the shrimp blue?


well, shrimps blood is based on copper, unlike our iron based blood.

while it is true that astaxanthin is red, it can apparently be produced in response to oxidative stress from copper and zinc, or other metals.

what is the source for astaxanthin? is it chemically extracted and then added to the powder? or is it added in the form of the algae that produces it? 

if the latter is so, then it may come with a lot of copper as well. 

this is where i get this idea. 
https://aiche.confex.com/aiche/2006/techprogram/P45638.HTM

i guess we would need to find another life form/algae/plant that uses something to deal with too much copper. then we could feed that to shrimp and see what happens. 


well, i would like to say that all this certainly has MY curiosity piqued...


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## auban (Jun 23, 2012)

shrimpo said:


> This picture is from blogs.uoregon.edu I don't know if this will help or can be applied to shrimp.


while this is a good description of what goes on in reptiles, i have to admit that i have never seen similar structures in shrimp when i look at them under a microscope. 

im starting to wonder if shrimp even have iridiphores at all...


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

+1. I'm wondering the same thing myself.


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

im sorry to be a bit off topic with this one but when i started reading all this talk about chromatophores it reminded me of this. i read something on yahoo news a while back so i thought i would post. i can remove if its to off topic. but i did find it interesting and it is aquatic.


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## auban (Jun 23, 2012)

technically, chromatophores are just cells that contain pigment. some animals can control how they are presented, like chameleons and squid.

every time i see squid, i think my shrimp are doing it wrong.


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## steven p (Jun 22, 2012)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> Marko, thanks for your post.
> 
> The yellow shrimp have turned blue from astaxanthin powder.


I had a PetCo "orange bee" turn a nice blue color with some Earl May "premium betta pellets." http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=281818&highlight=game+time+guess It was back to normal blotchy orange and brown after a couple of days. :icon_eek:

You mentioned orange and yellows possibly being closely related, I think so too. I have a tank of "orange sakura" which are mostly ending up yellow, I think i might just have to pick out the real nice ones and start another tank, or two.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

That's what selective breeding is all about.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

YES! Since I moved 2 Nessies over to the Painted Nessie tank, one of my Painted Nessie fems is finally berried! Perhaps my luck is changing on breeding the PN!

The regular Nessie tank is very slowly increasing their numbers. Not fast enough for my liking, but at least the colony is growing.


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

Go Nessies!


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

that is good news.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

We have a trade off... Found one juvie PN dead today...


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## Duck5003 (Oct 1, 2012)

Sorry to hear about the loss. Hopefully he will be replaced by 20-30 little ones in a few weeks though! (fingers crossed)


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## ravensgate (May 24, 2012)

Go Nessies GO! Sorry for the loss but hope you have them coming out yer ears soon enough


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

I really hope so. Seems the more painted the Nessies are, the harder to get them to breed. Of course putting those two new males in there seems to have done the job in about a day.


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## shrimpo (Aug 2, 2009)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> Seems the more painted the Nessies are, the harder to get them to breed.


 Never thought that shrimp also play hard to get.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

LOL I never liked the hard to get game. I always decided to let them go and focus on people who wanted to be around me.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Some more pics for ya.

I noticed something weird in one of my my BBRR (mixed rili) tanks a couple days ago. Apparently a juvie blue rili was born that appears a light lime green. Going to keep him in the tank right now.








I wanted to show that not all the Nessies are "stained glass" as one person so aptly put it. There's degrees in how much Nessies are covered with the green. It's through several years of my breeding that they are almost 100% throwing greens, but we're still at the "cherry" stages that occasionally throw the Sakuras or Painteds. As stated, I could keep these to myself to develop them further for 3 or 4 more years, however I think that would be rather selfish when several hobbyists can work for the best coloration just as well as I can. The more we have, the better gene pool and better success we'll eventually have. roud:

Unfortunately some color got washed out with the brightness of the food, but it will give you an understanding of various colorations:






















Looks like my PN dropped her eggs. Hopefully berries will appear soon, otherwise I may move them over to my Nessie tank to increase chances of being berried and spread teh PN genetics around a little more. My patience of them in their own tank is wearing thin.


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## Duck5003 (Oct 1, 2012)

Awesome shots! They are really looking nice. Thats a shame about the painted. I wonder whats going on with that, are they young shrimp??


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Nope, adults. Two things I can think of is that 1) there is not enough males around them, and 2) many times when a female has berries it releases hormones in the water that triggers other shrimp to get berried as well.

I've decided to move them into the Nessie tank today. Hopefully more genetics will get spread around for future Nessies and PNs.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

One tank of Nessies now. Let's hope this works.


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

i wish you luck my friend. they have come a long way and look great. wish i could try some lol


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

I hope to release a very limited quantity early next year, my friend.


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## shrimpo (Aug 2, 2009)

Try to give them a lot of hiding places and low light, these 2 factors in my experience are most important regardless of the tank size.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Have that covered.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

So as you may or may not recall, my Nessie tank had some genes line up just right to throw some throw backs to the fire reds...kinda. Of the 6 or so culls, 1 is almost painted red quality so far (time will tell if the solid ends up breaking into wide stripes), and a couple are turning out to be plums. I guess I could use the label BBRC, but plums are what I called my old strain that never got off the ground, so for the time being I'll call them that again. Blue Bodies with red cherry overlay giving a slightly purplish appearance. Could be nothing, or could be something. Time will tell. Here's a very bad pic that you've come to expect of me. :hihi:


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## Duck5003 (Oct 1, 2012)

Very cool! A purple shrimp would really be something. Either painted or even like a blue velvet, only purple  be sure to keep us updated! How are the Nessies coming along?


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Breeding much better now. Still many more low grade Nessies in ratio to the higher grades though.

Their heater gave out recently and I splurged to buy a digital one. I really like the new one and am thinking about converting the rest of my tanks to the digital as well. 

heh Whatever I sell pretty much goes to maintain my tanks. No getting rich from shrimping, but still rewarding as a hobby.


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## Erick (Nov 1, 2011)

I just read all 31 pages of this thread and all I can say is WOW!
Soothing you are a shrimp rock star.

How are the midnight rilis doing and when can I get some?


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Thanks Erick. 

No Shrimp Rock Star here, just a passionate hobbyist. heh

I separated the Midnights from the Inkspots as you know, but no matter what I did- they each threw blue. So now, I have the high quality Carbons and low quality carbons.

I really think if someone were to work with my low quality carbons they could produce a classic blue rili (blue pigmented rili on blue tissue.) I'm starting to do it myself when I have time, but I must admit I've not gotten very far because they are on the back burner right now as far as projects go. heh


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

Oh no. You're most definitely a shrimp rockstar! Your contributions to the hobby are more than anybody I could ever think of. 

It doesn't hurt that you don't really care about the money!


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

I hope I can live up to your kind words MABJ.


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

You've all on your own strengthened several lines of shrimp, created entirely new genetic strains. I know that there's been some new strains out of Asia, but none like what you're up to. 

Your kitchen is cooking with shrimp goodies for all of TPT to enjoy. Muahaaa


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## Hobbes1911 (Mar 2, 2009)

At some point, we all have to add to a collection pot for a portable sequencer for you! That way you could build the first reliable shrimp gene bank. You (we) could call it shrimpbase (for anyone not getting the reference, there's a website for C. elegans people called wormbase; if interested, look here: http://www.wormbase.org/#01-23-6)


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

i want some low grade carbons......


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> As far as my yellow experiement, I was going to go until the end of OCT, but after only ~10 days or so, my experiemnt has been pretty successful- so I'm going to end it.
> 
> As mosspearl asked, "I wonder how many days it will take for them to revert back? It won't be super scientific because there's probably some powder left in the substrate, and I'm not going to switch it out, but it will be interesting none the less.


Just a quickie to share that the yellows still haven't turned back to yellow yet. Been about 2 months.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Hobbes1911 said:


> At some point, we all have to add to a collection pot for a portable sequencer for you! That way you could build the first reliable shrimp gene back. You (we) could call it shrimpbase (for anyone not getting the reference, there's a website for C. elegans people called wormbase; if interested, look here: http://www.wormbase.org/#01-23-6)


That would be totally awesome! Take people much smarter than I to figure out the codings though.


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## Lexinverts (Jan 17, 2012)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> That would be totally awesome! Take people much smarter than I to figure out the codings though.


I just ordered some Bloody Mary's. Are you jealous? ;-)


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

VERY! LOL I'm reserving judgement though until I find out if there really is much difference in the look of fire red/pfr/and Bloody Mary.

The pics look great, but I've been stung before by misleading photos.

Your job is to pm me when you get them and tell me what you honestly think. OKay?


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## Lexinverts (Jan 17, 2012)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> VERY! LOL I'm reserving judgement though until I find out if there really is much difference in the look of fire red/pfr/and Bloody Mary.
> 
> The pics look great, but I've been stung before by misleading photos.
> 
> Your job is to pm me when you get them and tell me what you honestly think. OKay?


From the pictures I've seen, it looks like a purer red, but we'll see.

I'll let you know what I think of them when they arrive this week.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Thank you my friend. I would greatly appreciate that.


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## shrimpo (Aug 2, 2009)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> Just a quickie to share that the yellows still haven't turned back to yellow yet. Been about 2 months.


Is the blue color fading slowly or they still look the same when you stopped the experiment?


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

Lexinverts said:


> From the pictures I've seen, it looks like a purer red, but we'll see.
> 
> I'll let you know what I think of them when they arrive this week.


I'd be interested to see the same. Post here if you do find some difference or no difference at all.

I think it'd likely be the first shrimp to have the shell and the tissue be solid coloring.

Although I will note my blue diamonds have a brown/tan shell, and a blue tissue.


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## Lexinverts (Jan 17, 2012)

MABJ said:


> I'd be interested to see the same. Post here if you do find some difference or no difference at all.
> 
> I think it'd likely be the first shrimp to have the shell and the tissue be solid coloring.
> 
> Although I will note my blue diamonds have a brown/tan shell, and a blue tissue.


How do I prove that the tissue is red? Dissect them? I didn't order enough of them for that. LOL. Maybe juveniles will be red before they get a solid shell....

Yup, it's easy to see the tissue in the Blue Diamonds because half of them end up looking like Rilis.


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

Thanks for the update on the yellows! I was wondering about that!


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Lex, at some point you are going to have them on the front glass. Take a look at the belly. That should help make some assumptions.

Mosspearl and shrimpo, they are very slowly lightening, but I don't know if they'll regain their color soon or ever. I'll take a pic and post it here.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

So here are some shrimp from the yellow experiment:








You can see the yellow line on the back is fine again, but the shell is still dark with yellow tissue underneath. An an interesting note, babies that were thrown are all wild looking as older juvies now(The brownish looking one on the left )- which is weird, because these are yellow x yellow in genetics.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Another pic showing darker yellow ones still:








Reminds me somewhat of Argyria in humans. Some cases are caused by ingestion of colloidal Silver and is permanent.









Other cases are from Methemoglobinemia: " is a blood disorder in which an abnormal amount of methemoglobin -- a form of hemoglobin -- is produced, according to the National Institutes for Health. Hemoglobin is responsible for distributing oxygen to the body and without oxygen, the heart, brain and muscles can die. "

Such is the case of the Martin Fugate family:


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

Those are some interesting things about humans. I never had any idea. 

Lex, I wasn't inferring you dissect them (unless one dies naturally and you have the stomach for it) but shining a bright flashlight through their tails usually can give you a good clue, as does looking at them like Bryce said.


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## moranger (Mar 26, 2011)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> Just a quickie to share that the yellows still haven't turned back to yellow yet. Been about 2 months.


I did this experiment a few years ago with my yellows using NatuRose Astaxanthin Powder and it took a couple of months for them to get their color back. Even after several months if you move the soil around a bit you will see some of them will develop a green tint.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Always good to have confirmation on an experiment, my friend.


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## Lexinverts (Jan 17, 2012)

MABJ said:


> Lex, I wasn't inferring you dissect them


Oh good! :red_mouth


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

LOL I can see Lex doing an alien shrimp autopsy video now.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Had bad experiences with my Nessies this week.

First I did too fast of a water change and had 5 molts with berries. 100 fry down teh drain so to speak.

Then I had about 5 die. Two of them painted. 

So, as a precaution of anything unforeseen, or a microspike of ammonia, I did a drop of prime and a drip water change, and lost 5 more.

UGH! Those ones gone hurt the breeding population quite a bit. 

Right now I'm cycling a 20g to put them into for more stable water params. These Nessies are going to be the death of me yet! *bangs head against wall*


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

So sorry for the losses. Hope all goes better with the survivors.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

I'm hoping so, too. I realize now I made a bad decision with the 2nd water change when I should have left them alone. Hopefully they'll recover sooner rather than later.


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

Patience is hard. I'm trying to learn some... especially where it comes to shrimp.


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## CheyLillymama22 (Jun 9, 2013)

Sorry to hear about the nessies.


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

i know the feeling, to many water changes is how i lost my oebt a couple years ago.


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## Duck5003 (Oct 1, 2012)

Keep your head up, they'll bounce back!


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

+1 to that and patience. I've never been a patient person.

Thanks chey. I hate when I make mistakes like this.


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## ProduceGuy (Mar 8, 2013)

Oh man, that sux. I'm so sorry.


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## shrimpo (Aug 2, 2009)

I think the saying " if ain't broke don't fix it " can apply to shrimp keeping as well, I lost some shrimp also due to water changes. I wish you good luck on the breeding project.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Thanks folks. Needless to say, this may very well affect when any amount may be released. I was hoping on an extremely small amount being offered at the beginning of summer. We'll see though.


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## Leviathan_XE (Jun 10, 2005)

Just keep hanging in there, it'll be worth it. I've just read this entire thread and learned SO much. Cant wait till my tanks cyle now and will DEF order from you when you have some of your projects available.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Thanks for the encouragement Lev.


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## ren (May 19, 2010)

Oh man sorry to hear about your loss. You should be fine though. You've been doing this for a while you'll recoup in no time. How is the growth rate compared to the other neos you have?


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Comparable. About the same growth rate. :thumbsup:


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> ...Carbon Rili- I bought these when they first came out. Not really "rili" as much as random blotches.
> 
> Ink Blot Rilis- breeding for clear/black. Most are still a very light shade of blue that will have to be bred out.
> 
> ...



So this is weird quoting myself. LOL However I wanted to interject some clarifications. 

Carbon rilis have been shown to be anywhere from low quality with dots or splotches to higher quality of rili pattern. So now from my tanks I just use the term culls or low quality, or high grade for the better ones. Obviously the goal is to produce the highest grade possible. Extremely challenging!

I was never able to establish the strain of all clear tissue carbons, so no ink blot rilis from me. However, I'm told that there is a strain that currently exists of clear tissue and carbon rili pattern. Great! I don't have to reinvent the wheel!

I *do* have my midnight rilis, however I am still working on high grades. Now that someone else is using that name, it must be a winner. LOL No ill will from me. I'll just change my name of the line I'm working on for another. Theirs is already out, so they have first opportunity to use it with my blessing. Mine is still a work in process. :thumbsup: Mine are looking a lot like dream rilis. Don't know if they are the same genetics. I still have mediums being thrown, too. The only reason why I would use a different name than dream rili is that this is a different strain. If good things or challenging things pop up down the line, people need to know which is which. Any suggestions on a new name? 

My sapphires come from the same line as my ones above. The difference is no rili markings and entirely blue. I pretty much gave up my DBV space, so I could work on this project. These have captured my heart for their royal blue. The goal is to have as dark a blue as I can get without turning "black." :icon_cool

My Nessies are dooing well after recovering from a severe set back. Now, I have probibly less than 50. The good news is that at least 2 "painted" fems survived, so I'm waiting for berries.

I'm also working on a line of solid black carbons I'm calling Inkblots. Extremely slow going thus far. BUT I'm still hoping! :red_mouth


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

do you only work with neos?


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Pretty much. I'm hoping to set up some cards this year, but I mostly work with neos.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

On another note, I have some BV that are displaying a random spot of red on their bodies. Who knows if it will stay or fade since less than 1% keep any red, but I'm thinking of separating these and seeing if they'll continue the trait. 

Kind of weird really since these don't have a clear shell, but have a blue pigment already expressed. This red 2nd pigment is expressed at the same time in a different spot. A bi-colored shell if you will...


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

that would be cool


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

One of the things I have been frustrated with over the past several years is the macro focus on my camera for taking shrimp pics. I'm not a great pic taker anyway, but teh camera just doesn't focus at that distance and then I have to play with software to try to get focus, etc....

But now I'm excited. Talked to one of the members here over pm and I decided to get myself a Canon Powershot A480. This is in my price range I can spend (~$50 used) and takes decent macro pics. I just don't have $200+ to spend on a better camera. 

So it should arrive soon, I hope, I can start posting decent pics of my projects! Yay!


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## shrimpo (Aug 2, 2009)

Keep them coming, I really want to see decent Nessies picture.


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## GreenBliss (Mar 7, 2012)

Great to hear. Love to see the Nessies and Sapphires!


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## alibird (Jan 8, 2014)

Really excited to see your projects! Shrimp are cool on their own but knowing that they throw so many mutations that you can take advantage of to make exciting new strains makes them perfect! Also as a possible name suggestion, denim shrimp could be a memorable name, hehe.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Great input allbird, thanks!

I'm no genius when it comes to shrimp, and there's always stuff I'm learning. My whole purpose of this journal is to inspire others to improve and create strains for themselves. 

Still waiting on the camera.


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## yeswaitnosorry (Feb 16, 2014)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> Great input allbird, thanks!
> 
> I'm no genius when it comes to shrimp, and there's always stuff I'm learning. My whole purpose of this journal is to inspire others to improve and create strains for themselves.
> 
> Still waiting on the camera.


 Definitely inspiring. :thumbsup:


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Thanks. 

Well the first camera got here and was a dud. I'm returning it, and have a 2nd camera on the way. The seller had a 90+ rating on Ebay with a zillion products sold, so I'm sure there is no way he can inspect each one. *shrugs* That's the way the ball bounces. Easy resolving though.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Got the camera and am starting to play with it.

Here's one of my shrimp from my yellow strain. Not as solid as I'd like yet, but still working on it.


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

Wow! That's bright!


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## Aquasapien69 (May 7, 2011)

New camera does a great job! Love that yellow! 

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Thanks.  That's a juvie. I'm trying to work toward a PFY. Very slow going, but I'm slowly getting there. I can't find any examples of a PFY strain, so I have to do it myself.

I've very pleased with the $40 camera. Not fantastic, but much much better than what I had, and good enough for now.


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

great looking shrimp bryce. glad this camera is working for you. now you need to take sunday to snap pics of the other shrimp you have lol


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## Mamabear (Jan 17, 2014)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> Got the camera and am starting to play with it.
> 
> Here's one of my shrimp from my yellow strain. Not as solid as I'd like yet, but still working on it.
> 
> View attachment 282066


Freaking jaw dropping!


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## shrimpo (Aug 2, 2009)

Nice shrimp you got there, keep them coming.


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## teqvet (Feb 6, 2014)

nice! That sure is a vibrant yellow.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Thanks folks. 

I'll try to get another photo up today or tomorrow of some other shrimp. I need to play with my camera anyway.

If anyone knows a free program to add a watermark, please let me know. I've had pics stolen before to sell other people's shrimp.


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## GreenBliss (Mar 7, 2012)

Love the Yellow Neo!


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Thank GB.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Glad I could inspire you to think about trying some selective breeding. Anyone can do it, however the breeding trinity does apply. 

Some people have had lots of luck with 2.5g tanks. I think Wicca is one of them.

For me, water params are more stable in a 10g. The drawback is that I can't have as many tanks to really go gung ho on selectively breeding the way I would love to- like one could with 2.5g tanks. So, there is definitely a trade off.

As far as culling- it would take forever for me to try to net every shrimp out into another tank. heh Also, any stress would make them lose some color before culling accurately.

Because I know the best colored ones are doing well in the current environment, often I remove the ones that don't match my standard so as not to disturb the ones I want to carry on. Now, understand that this is NOT the easiest way to do this. The easiest way is to remove the best and place them in a new place to breed. LOL I just don't like to take chances if I don't have to.


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## bostoneric (Sep 7, 2011)

a couple mins a day at each tank culling just a few 3-4 shrimp and you wont really disturb the rest of the shrimp in the tank. over time they seem to get comfortable with the net being in the tank.

this is what i've observed from a few larger breeders and have put into practice.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Good tip, bostoneric.


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

yeah im pretty lucky with nanos. not quite sure how i manage it but i do. then again im also one for not messing with my water chemistry much. i use tap when ever i can and have been pretty lucky to live in areas where the water is pretty neutral and a fairly good gh and kh so with neos there is no need for ro and remineralizing.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Update on the yellows fed Astaxanthin as an experiemnt. I ended the Astaxanthin feeding on 10/13/2013.

It is now 03/05/2014, and they STILL have not switched back to full color yet. The color has lightened from the deep blue they were, but it may be permanent. Glad that I used a sample, and not my entire stock.


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## Oceangirl (Feb 5, 2013)

There you go, that's where blueberry shrimp come from!! Shrimp fed this!


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

That's interesting. Have they had babies? Does the color extend to them?


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

I've had very limited babies because of param swings in such a small tank, but the babies that I do have seem to not have yellow either. My suspicion is there may be enough old mulm (baby food) that still has Astaxanthin in it to turn the baby shrimp this color, too.

Considering the Astaxanthin caused the color change in the first place, it is a food- and I don't believe genetics would be changed just by eating a non-toxic food.

Oceangirl- that has been my suspicion for a long time.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Well I finally got up enough guts to do it. I disconnected all my heaters in my neo tanks. The big challenge is going to be to try to keep my room stable temperature wise during the year. We'll soon see if it was wise or unwise....


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## shrimpo (Aug 2, 2009)

If the heaters are adjustable I would put them on the lowest temp for couple days before disconnecting.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

eh. Too late. No deaths as of yet, so that's good news.


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

mine did fine in temps as low as 65. i never did use heaters in any of my shrimp tanks. and my temps never got over 73


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

I'm getting to the point where I am really getting annoyed at the name rili being used for almost anything. 

I'm old school I guess, but Rili to me should only be used for head/tail patterns. 

That's why I put forward the name BBRR (Blue Bodied Red Rili), so it wouldn't be confused with "Blue Rili" which has no pattern. By the response I've gotten so far, seems many hobbyists agree with that term. :thumbsup:

And so much confusion has been put forward with what is considered high quality carbons- some say the classic rili pattern is high quality, the original breeder says the splotched look is high quality.

It's driving me NUTS!!!

So, here are my new terms I'm going to use for myself, and others can take them or leave them:

Splotched- Splotched pattern on body.

Rili- Head/tail markings

Some people have preferences, and most of the rili shrimp are splotched anyway if not culled/selected. I think this will avoid much confusion in the future and make the hobby a bit easier to understand. At least I hope so.


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

shrimp names are as bad as guppy names drives me nuts cause you never know what you really will end up with.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

+1 I hate ordering a type and getting something less than I expected.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

So I just wanted to do a quick update. My painted yellow shrimp project from my own strain is progressing nicely. It's been 3 or 4 years in the making thus far. (I get lost how long exactly with so many projects going on.) I figured I'd better give my project a name now, so I present to you my Sunshine Shrimp.

Some lousy pics, but here's my best thus far. Note that the saddle cannot be seen, and the dark spot is the guts. :























Gonna take awhile yet before I have all Sunshines painted, but at least I know I'm headed in the right direction. :icon_cool


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## Oceangirl (Feb 5, 2013)

Pretty!!


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Thanks. Before anyone asks, they are not for sale yet. LOL Just trying to work with what I've got right now.


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## drewsuf82 (May 27, 2012)

Wow those shrimp are beautiful

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

I appreciate that. Thank you.


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## Duck5003 (Oct 1, 2012)

The selective breeding king strikes again :icon_cool Those are great soothing! Keep up the awesome work, we need a striking full colored yellow neo in this hobby  :thumbsup:


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## briscoe (Mar 29, 2013)

Wow those are some nice looking shrimp!


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

Looking good!


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Thanks guys.


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

so pretty. do they have the racing stripe or is that gone? personally im not a fan of the stripe lol so these are awesome in my eyes hehehehehe.


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## mayphly (Jul 20, 2010)

I had to put my shades on looking at these guys. Their shells look solid opaque. Can't wait to see how these turn out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Wicca, no stripe. The occasional still pops up, but those get culled as early as juvie.

mayphly, gonna have to wait awhile. Still a project in the making- even after so many years. Only one has gotten this opaque thus far, but at least I know I'm doing something correctly.


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## SigmaMLK (Feb 9, 2014)

Wow that sunshine yellow is beautiful, when you are ready to sell we will all be ready to buy!!!


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## ctaylor3737 (Nov 14, 2013)

wicca27 said:


> so pretty. do they have the racing stripe or is that gone? personally im not a fan of the stripe lol so these are awesome in my eyes hehehehehe.


Me to hate the stipe, seems to me the older they get the worse it looks. Cherries turns a milky color and looks bad imo. Love the yellows

-Chris


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## shrimpo (Aug 2, 2009)

Stunning shrimp as usual, keep up the good work man.


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## AnionAndCation (Nov 6, 2013)

Absolutely stunning yellow shrimps, cannot wait to see what painted yellows will look like!


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Thanks folks. 
---

In other news, the Nessies have finally started breeding again. Most are low quality, which is to be expected, but hopefully I'll have enough high quality after this year to house them together. 

Still doing colony breeding with the Inkwells. Just stated working with those at the end of last year (I think?), so not much improvement yet.

I just have male Cellophanes right now I think. Not sure why, unless it is on the Y chromosome. BUT I'm holding out the hope that it's random chance.

My dark blue carbon project has done pretty well. 

Just got in some bloody marys, added a 2nd strain of orange to my oranges for diversity since I'll be doing first selection after a few months, and have a 2nd strain of yellows coming. I'll not be mixing these with the sunshine strain, but interested to see differences in yellows. Oh, I also picked up some culls from someone's BD. Don't know what the heck I'll do with those yet, but what the heck.

I have some other morphs that popped up I want to use for projects as well, but that trinity is killing me!


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## Duck5003 (Oct 1, 2012)

It sounds like you need a shrimp warehouse :hihi: if only money DID grow on trees!! 

Sounds like you have a ton of fun projects going. I'm really interested in your inkwell project specificly. I want a black neo so bad! I have been plugging away with chocolates and BD's but there is just nothing stable about them. Your inkwells seem very promising though :thumbsup:


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

There really is nothing stable about BD. Chocolates can be bred darker (as I have), but they still throw the occasional lighter ones. After some research it appears black rose isn't stable either.

The inkwells are definitely headed in the right direction as I get increasing coverage. :thumbs up:


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## cjipping (Jan 17, 2014)

Curious, are there any updates on the gene factory?


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## alibird (Jan 8, 2014)

Yes I agree! I would love to know how all your new color strains are doing!


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Well, still working on my painted yellow Sunshines. Not there yet, but headed in the right direction.

My BV current generation are so dark that they are no longer red as babies. Kinda crazy. I'm now calling them Sonic. 

My Nessies are increasing in number now. So glad to see that after last year.

Anything specific you are interested in knowing about?


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## usgetata (Dec 28, 2012)

Good! My green neo are not giving out any green baby. The hope is on your Nessies!


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

No worries there. The Nessies are breeding nearly 100% green.  That's much of what has taken me years to do. I wanted to make sure they were breeding as true as I could before offering them. Otherwise I could have offered them 2-3 years ago, with a poor color rate. 

The throw grade is weird. Here is what I've found thus far:

The Golden Nessie- the body is orangish/gold while green hood or stripes are on the shell. A two colored shrimp. I think a line of Green Hooded Golden Nessies would look cool, but others would have to work on that. heh

Cherry Nessies

Sakura Fire Nessie

Fire Nessie

Sakura Painted Nessie

Painted Nessie

See what I mean? They can throw anywhere from Cherry Nessie to Painted. Crazy, huh?

If I were to breed out the grades by myself, it may take 10 more years, but I'd really like to offer this into the hands of other hobbyists as a new color to play with. 

I will say that I think the fire and Sakura Nessies look very stained glass like. I love that I can see through the green like an Emerald or thin leafed plant. I think the painted looks black, except under strong light or flash. However many hobbyists will like that look, too. It has different appeals to different hobbyists.

Bump:


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Here's some recent pics:





































Keep in mind, I used flash so shrimp are a little duller than this, but this will give you a good idea of what I have atm.


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

Being Sakura is what makes them unique IMO. You should consider focusing on them rather than anything else.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Right now, I'm just trying to breed up numbers so I can let some get into hobbyists hands next August. Was going to do it this August and I had that horrible tank crash. Regardless, next August will be limited with how many I can let go, since I need to maintain a population to continue working with.

I love the look of the Sakuras, too. Looks like veins in a leaf to me. Beautiful!


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## briscoe (Mar 29, 2013)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> Right now, I'm just trying to breed up numbers so I can let some get into hobbyists hands next August. Was going to do it this August and I had that horrible tank crash. Regardless, next August will be limited with how many I can let go, since I need to maintain a population to continue working with.
> 
> I love the look of the Sakuras, too. Looks like veins in a leaf to me. Beautiful!


Soothing, just out of curiosity, have you ever thought of ordering some of these?

http://www.shrimpfever.com/shop/livestock-shrimp/green-jade/

I only ask because I'm curious as to how stable these are.


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

I didn't know there was a green neo out there. Did you, Bryce?


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Yep. Beautiful aren't they? I've heard differing opinions of these as to how true they breed, but they are lovely in picture.

It looks to be two different types of pigments overlayed to me, whereas mine is either one green pigment or different pigments interspersed together to create the green.

I think it's great to have different vars.


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## sbarbee54 (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah, reports I have gotten from over seas say they dont breed true. They are great looking, but I like shrimp that have the same off spring


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

sbarbee54 said:


> Yeah, reports I have gotten from over seas say they dont breed true. They are great looking, but I like shrimp that have the same off spring


I don't buy shrimp that don't breed true at at least 90-98%. 100% is preferable . So I agree


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## usgetata (Dec 28, 2012)

The greens are beautiful


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## cjipping (Jan 17, 2014)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> Anything specific you are interested in knowing about?


Any update is a good update. If it has pictures its a great update. 

For me the progress on the yellows are the most interesting, being that they have been such a long project and they are truly a work of beauty. Its very interesting to see the timeline of events, the successes and the failures. I enjoy how the project both creates a desire in me to start my own color project and simultaneously gives a bit of gratification of sharing in your success at it.

However the Sapphires you had about a year ago (post 290) caught my eye the most. Do you still have that project going?


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Yepper. Still have the Sapphire project going. Darker than the pic from post 290.
I'll try to get some soon for ya.

I'm glad this journal creates a desire to try selective breeding yourself. That has been my goal all along, to get people to try it. I have had more failures than successes, but that's part of the challenge. To see how far you can go with you project, and if it will pan out. I highly encourage you to see what you can do!


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## DeepXero (Feb 25, 2013)

Can't wait for the Nessie colony to be established and breed true. I will be the first buyer.... 

I'm currently in the process of moving. Once I step foot in the new apartment the first this going up are my tanks and then the projects shall begin... Any suggestions that I should try out?


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

The simplest way to start is to find a var you like, and breed to improve it. In this way, not only are you getting your feet wet, but also improving on teh shrimp for other hobbyists as well.


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