# Shrimp Paralysis and Die Off



## Leviathan_XE (Jun 10, 2005)

I know I'm a rookie around these shrimp parts but have you thought about oxygen? My shrimp seemed frozen at one point as well, like I was looking at a picture of a shrimp tank. I added an airstone and they started to behave as normal.


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

Same problem I had a few weeks ago. I used to run a sponge filter + my canister but I got the bright idea of putting the sponge filter onto the canister intake so I would have to clean it as much. Well, it worked great but then I noticed my shrimp stopped moving as much, and then appeared frozen. Babies, adults, all frozen. I posted on here and everyone suggest airstones and O2 into the water, so added one and everyone is back to normal. I didn't have any deaths but maybe I caught it in time or the small amount of agitation from the HOB filter I put on the tank was giving them small amounts. I also noticed all my snails crowded around the water line, so O2 seemed to be the problem.


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## Aquasapien69 (May 7, 2011)

Have you checked your ammonia, nitrate and nitrite just to make sure. I had a similar thing happen to mine. Lost all of my first crs that I tried to raise and half of my cherries. At the time I thought it was because of......well ammonia and its metabolites. Basically, I think I overfed....this caused detritus worms to go crazy. I read that this may be due to overfeeding. So I started feeding less and the detritus worms started dying off quite a bit. I got ammonia and its friends and I think I needed to do more water changes than I did. Now maybe the decomposition was using up the O2 as well. Not sure now. Either way, more O2 sounds good and I would definitely test for Ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. And you may want to see if you have a lot of flatworms roaming around. They are supposed to have a bite/sting that can harm shrimp. 

My $0.02


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## RandomMan (May 31, 2011)

I haven't seen any flatworms and I treated with Paraguard a while back. I don't think its an O2 issue, as the tanks has been running for over 6 months, and this is the first time something like this happened, and if it was O2 the water changes would have given me some respite or slowed things down.

I'll test for everything tonight, but water parameters should be fine after all the water changes, and Prime treatment. I suppose there's the possibility that there's a dead rotting shrimp somewhere I can't find that's fouling the water.


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## RandomMan (May 31, 2011)

Update:

PH 6.6-6.8
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 10

It'll be a few hours before I can run the ammonia test, but I'd expect higher NO readings if the ammonia had been spiked the last few days.


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

Could still be O2 related, i dunno, I just went through the exact same prob, all params fine and adding a simple airstone saved about $500 in shrimp. If its gotten warmer in your house cause of heat being on, more O2 is needed at higher temps as well.


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

May not be an o2 problem, but if there was an ammonia spike from the dead shrimp, their gills are compromised and will benefit from the airstone.


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

mordalphus said:


> May not be an o2 problem, but if there was an ammonia spike from the dead shrimp, their gills are compromised and will benefit from the airstone.


6pH and purigen help so much preventing any spikes. Not much ammonia is going get through that combo. lol.


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## RandomMan (May 31, 2011)

What is 6pH? 

I use Purigen on all my tanks at home, but this is a small tank and it won't fit in the HOB. I had been using PolyFilter(TM) which is supposed to be similar, but its prone to clogging too easily.


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

RandomMan said:


> What is 6pH?
> 
> I use Purigen on all my tanks at home, but this is a small tank and it won't fit in the HOB. I had been using PolyFilter(TM) which is supposed to be similar, but its prone to clogging too easily.


just meant that with a pH of 6, ammonia is converted to ammonium and becomes non-toxic to the fish/shrimp/etc due to free hydrogen atoms in the low pH water, it binds with the ammonia. At a higher pH, ammonia becomes more toxic. Part of the reason I think Sulwasi shrimp can be hard to keep, with a pH of 8, any small spike is amplified and becomes more toxic.

I use small satchels of purigen I made with panty hose in all my Aquaclear HOB filters on all my tanks. Its great for lots of things and does the same as a low pH, neutrilizes ammonia, nitrites, etc to a non-toxic form.


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## RandomMan (May 31, 2011)

Any tips on what type of pantyhose to use? I'm afraid after a few weeks I'll end up with a tank full of Purigen.


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

RandomMan said:


> Any tips on what type of pantyhose to use? I'm afraid after a few weeks I'll end up with a tank full of Purigen.


LOL. Liam built an awesome purigen reactor, but thats to inline with a canister filter. I just grabbed a new pair my girlfriend hadn't used yet, anything with a fine mesh to it. I found purigen is very fine and can fall out from most LFS mesh bags. For my 10gals, I run a little satchel about the size of half a golf ball, loosly packed so the water can still flow through it.

Its just good to have to help remove stuff from the water and really does keep it clean. With that said, it won't stop a big spike or anything as with having a low pH, it may convert the ammonia to ammonium, but then that excess food for the filter may cause a nitrite spike.

With your situation, could the heat or cold in your place while you were gone went wonky or big shifts?

If you have an airpump around, it may not be a bad idea to throw it on and see if helps.


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## RandomMan (May 31, 2011)

So just tested with a different test kit.

Ammonia - 0
Verified PH is around 6.5.
Verified GH in the tank is 4ish

So I'm down to 
A) Ammonia spike over weekend compromised them and I'm now feeling the effects
B) Someone got some chemical in the water (cleaning people?)
C) Some parasite too small to see

As to temps, no. Its real cool here, so no high temps, and my heater does a good job keeping it right at 74f. Office is about 70-71F year round.

I ran out and bought a small air pump. I'll run that for the next few days and sees what happens. Sadly, I've lost about $80 worth of shrimp, and if this keeps up for another few days I'll have no shrimp left.

So frustrating. Tank had been doing real well for a while with several CRS broods hatching. Then heat + filtered water not being filtered lead to a big die off. And now just as things were recovering and I was sure everything was stable this happens.


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

RandomMan said:


> So frustrating. Tank had been doing real well for a while with several CRS broods hatching. Then heat + filtered water not being filtered lead to a big die off. And now just as things were recovering and I was sure everything was stable this happens.


I feel your pain. I went through many months of crystals breeding and no babies surviving, loosing some nice SS's along the way, bacterial problem wiping out 80% of my cherries, etc. Everyone is doing good finally, but its certainly not something to jump into and think you're going to breed shrimp and get rich. lol. I have a spreadsheet now just to keep track of when to do what to what tank on what day.


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## RandomMan (May 31, 2011)

Just an update, at least 1 CRS died after adding the air stone.

I'm now down to just 10 shrimp left, and one of my yellows looks stressed.


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

Not sure if its a bacteria infection running through, though normally you will see black spots on the sides of the crystals or cloudy, milky colored bodies in the yellows. Do you have a small tank you can take them and put them in with fresh water and nothing else from the tank to see if its something in your tank doing it? Notice any problems with them molting?

Its so hard with them trying to figure out whats going on sometimes.


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## RandomMan (May 31, 2011)

I'm just going to chalk it up to SIDS. May give it one more shot and then if that fails throw in the towel on this tank and just throw a betta into it.

I've got a fire red tank that's been doing just fine. And I've got my tank at home which has had its issues (which I figured out and solved), but has been stable for a while now.


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

RandomMan said:


> I'm just going to chalk it up to SIDS. May give it one more shot and then if that fails throw in the towel on this tank and just throw a betta into it.
> 
> I've got a fire red tank that's been doing just fine. And I've got my tank at home which has had its issues, but has been stable for a while now.


I hear ya. Went through 6 months of no babies in my crystal tank until I setup a new tank and started over, now babies everywhere. Not sure what it was, I would see babies, then they'd be gone for 6 months.


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

hmmm I have almost the same problem, but my case is water change.

I've had 5 CRS from Sept 18, they did fine until last week water change. I did 60-70% water change with RO, 2 days after water change I see 2 died, 1 disappear.

only can find 2 so far.

I learned that I should not make a super big water change, instead max 10-15% water change only.


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## RandomMan (May 31, 2011)

Yup. Supposedly the big breeders in Taiwan don't even do water changes. Just use plants to keep the Nitrate down and top off.


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

sayurasem said:


> hmmm I have almost the same problem, but my case is water change.
> 
> I've had 5 CRS from Sept 18, they did fine until last week water change. I did 60-70% water change with RO, 2 days after water change I see 2 died, 1 disappear.
> 
> ...


Your problem was that you made a huge WC using pure RO water. You pretty much poisoned them with super clean water. Did you remineralize the RO water? If so I bet that wouldn't have happened. Same thing would've happened if you did a 60-70% WC with straight tap that had different parameters than your tank.


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## garfieldnfish (Sep 25, 2010)

I think anytime you make a large change it is bad for the shrimp. They like it clean but if the water got too dirty and you really clean it up, it can kill them. I never do water changes of more than 10% anymore. You may also take a magnifying glass and look for hydra. I don't know where these things come from but they have a habit of showing up out of nowhere whenever conditions are right. I keep apple snails in my shrimp tanks now to combat this pest. 
I just found one of my blue bee shrimp totally encased in planaria tonight. I am sure these guys take their toll on the shrimp population as well. I have been trying to remove as many as I can using pipettes but these guys are sticky as hell and I am sure that can kill shrimp. I hope the apple snails will eliminate them as well by eating the excess food. I have kept tanks for 12 years now but until 1 year ago I have never had planaria in any of my tanks that I could tell anyway. Then I got assassin snails to get rid of the tons of MTSs and now I have planaria. I wish for the days of the MTSs to come back, lol.


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

diwu13 said:


> Your problem was that you made a huge WC using pure RO water. You pretty much poisoned them with super clean water. Did you remineralize the RO water? If so I bet that wouldn't have happened. Same thing would've happened if you did a 60-70% WC with straight tap that had different parameters than your tank.



yeah Its because I didn't change the water for 2 weeks and thinking "man the water must be super dirty" so I did 60% water change so it can be clean again. Your right, its too clean lol.


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## curious_shrimp (Nov 1, 2011)

this exact thing happened to my CRS and cherries, and always seem to be happening during WC, which I did 10-15%. My water parameters, otherwise, was perfect. But after searching through various threads in diff forums, I found that you have to do "Drip water change". since for us who keep CRS have soft water(low kH, etc), pH swings pretty easily when water chemistry is disturbed(water changes). All of my CRS and cherries STOPPEd dying when I started drip water change system, which I still do about 10% water change by drip method... it takes longer to do, but I've never lost a single CRS or cherries.


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

curious_shrimp said:


> this exact thing happened to my CRS and cherries, and always seem to be happening during WC, which I did 10-15%. My water parameters, otherwise, was perfect. But after searching through various threads in diff forums, I found that you have to do "Drip water change". since for us who keep CRS have soft water(low kH, etc), pH swings pretty easily when water chemistry is disturbed(water changes). All of my CRS and cherries STOPPEd dying when I started drip water change system, which I still do about 10% water change by drip method... it takes longer to do, but I've never lost a single CRS or cherries.


Are you using a buffering soil? If so, there shouldn't be an issue with 10-15% WC's regularly. Are you also using RO water during the WC's?


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## anh (Jul 20, 2009)

check for heavy metal, they mess up the shrimp ability to take oxygen by binding to their hemoglobin. I had similar problems yesterday, lost to shrimp and they turn blue/black.


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## Alyssa (Sep 16, 2011)

What is a buffering soil?


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

Alyssa said:


> What is a buffering soil?


Like aquasoil, fluval stratum, akadama, ect... Basically "special" substrate for shrimp only.

It buffers/ lower down your ph, gh, and kh to a specific degree. Ie your tap water is 7 ph, 7 gh, 7 kh... The substrate will reduce it into 6 ph, 5 gh, 2 kh. 

The harder the substrate have to buffer your water, the shorter life span the substrate can bffer effectively.


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

Yea, so if you're using buffering soil with RO water (granted you re-minerilize it), there should be no problem doing larger water changes if need be. By large I mean 15-20% :X.

This probably won't help that much, but I did 60% WC's when I was treating with paraguard in my shrimp tank. I made sure the parameters were very similar then just did regular change, not even dripping. Nothing died in my tank during the 4 large changes in a week. Granted, the tank has RCS and tigers, but not even the tigers died.


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## curious_shrimp (Nov 1, 2011)

diwu13 said:


> Are you using a buffering soil? If so, there shouldn't be an issue with 10-15% WC's regularly. Are you also using RO water during the WC's?


 yes/no. I am using fluval ebi stratum(shrimp) substrate and yeap I do use 100% RO with minerals added. I found that my fluval ebi substrate keeps my pH 7.2-7.4 so I dont think its doing that much of great job at buffering the water. I do have a set up with ADA aqua soil currently with only yellow shrimps(new tank, and hasnt placed any CRS in there yet) and I also do drip water change. I do understand that if one is using RO water only, the pH should not swing badly- but for some reason when I add fluval mineral supplement, the pH does go up high(i posted a thread about it on this forum few weeks ago about that). It could be my pH test kit, but I doubt it- the kit is only few months old..

I found threads where people's water parameters are perfect, but upon WC, they found random shrimp deaths. that's where I read about the drip water change- drip water change is recommended even when one is using buffering substrate(ADA, etc) as the substrate buffering is not instantaneous. 

but then, I should also add that my tank is 5g and water parameters can def swing easily than say, if I had 20g. Drip WC just helps mitigate that change(when I do WC) on sensitive shrimps like CRS...:eek5:


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## curious_shrimp (Nov 1, 2011)

oh yea, but I don't do drip WC for my yellow shrimps...just add RO with mineral supplement slowly. only the tanks with my high grade CRS shrimp tank.


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## RandomMan (May 31, 2011)

I don't think the Fluval Shrimp Stratum has any buffering capabilities. At least not that I've noticed. I think Nikki (Shrimp Lab) also tested it and didn't find any buffering/affect on water, but I'm too lazy to try and find that post.

ADA Aquasoil does for sure, but you'll lose it over time. For that reason, I feel its better to just mineralize to the parameters you want before adding it to the tank.

(Of course, I just did have a big die off in one of my tanks that led to the creation of this thread, so what do I know?)


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