# My Betta Fish Journal



## WaterLife (Jul 1, 2015)

I think the betta is deformed from being in the previous tight/narrow drinking glass. I don't think it's really from overfeeding as I believe their stomach is at the bottom while that bulge is on the side (even if the fish's external features don't grow, the internal organs can still grow and might be why the bulges are on the sides) and the bettas' back looks to be hunchback deformed to me.
How narrow was that drinking glass? Not much wider than the fish itself?

NLS is definitely a high quality food, congrats on researching that.

That start up blend you are adding, what are the ingredients? If that is introducing ammonia (or is literally ammonia which is used to fishless cycle tanks) that is the problem. It sounds like it's doing better without the added liquid. If you didn't know, ammonia is the most toxic nitrogen form for fish, with nitrite being another big concern, both of these ideally should read 0 traces of it in the water. Nitrate is less toxic and levels up to 40ppm is usually regarded as safe, but less is better for fish.

The fish waste itself and the food fed is enough ammonia to cycle the tank. If that start up blend is purely nitrifying bacteria, without ammonia, you could use it (I can't remember the name of the product that many have had success with), but if not, and it seems the Betta is doing better (always react according to fish reactions, they are the critical signs) without that liquid, I would rather not dose that, do a water change and go about the daily feedings, but do water changes as necessary (weekly or so) and let the tank cycle on it's own if it needs to.
Bettas do make bubble nests, but I doubt it is purposely making those bubbles for a nest especially since there is no female.

If the ammonia is indeed from the product I would stop right away or you risk the chance of that Betta's already sad life coming to an end.

_______________

Oh sorry, I wrote the above before fully reading the last part of your post.
The white stringy poo can be a sign of infection (haven't dealt with that before so I can't recommend a med, but prazipro is usually regarded as a gentle dewormer (among other benefits) on fish and safe for plants. It might not actually be a "worm", but a similar parasite.
With Bettas and medication, I have heard things like Melafix must be dosed at half strength of else they can kill the fish (something about covering the labyrinth organ and they suffocate), not sure if other meds should be dosed at half strength for Bettas as well.
There are also infections where the slime coat/skin is infected and the coating will become whiteish/milky (don't recall it shedding though)
Do some research about meds on bettas though if they should be half the normal dosage strength or not.

Meds also do add stress on already weakened fish and many do use up some oxygen (but being a labyrinth fish, it should be able to breathe at the surface, unless the organ does get covered up by the med, making it difficult to breathe.

For plants, more than just low tech plants, get the fast growing low tech plants (duckweed, dwarf water lettuce, water sprite, water wisteria, guppy grass, etc) are they are more efficient/faster at using up the nitrogen in the water than the slow growing anubias and java fern.

For some extra help to improve recovering chances of the betta, you could add a Indian Almond Leaf into the tank and let the tannins stay in the water (water will turn tea/brown colored) as it has natural medicinal properties and also reduce stress on the fish.


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## BettaBabe (May 1, 2015)

White stringy poo could be parasites or simple constipation from my experience. Bettas like a shady spot, so floaty plants would be good. The bubble blowing is him building a nest. A good sign! Bettas sort of take naps. You'll find he sits still often, appearing almost dead. I even had one that would sink to the bottom to nap.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

*Thank you for your replies! 

You have really got me thinking about that product now, this is what I used; Jungle Start Zyme and I did read the back before I bought it but the ingredients are very vague I bet it does contain its own source of food/ammonia! Bacteria blend could mean a lot of things, at the least being both ammonia eating and nitrite eating strains....but it makes sense the only way to keep it alive in the bottle is some sort of concentrated time release food source? I do not know what "not for use on food fish" is suppose to mean though?!*


















*Thanks for the plant recommendation I will get water column plants  I fasted him for a day with just 1 pellet and I cut his food back a bit since I think I was feeding him too much (still unsure) but now he seems to be able to bend and turn around easier instead of being all stiff and trying to oddly turn around by swimming sideways. I have monitored him closely I can sense his mood and after I made this post I decided to pull him from that tank, no more tank hopping he is back in the 1/2 gallon until his permanent 5.5 gallon is ready. He immediately started acting happy again in the 1/2 gallon most likely the fresh water is why, and I moved his heater and a fake plant into it for coverage so he can still hide plus I keep it partially shaded he seems very happy again  I added a rock I found on the beach it looks like 2 rocks melted together somehow. This is making it so much easier to keep his water fresh for the next week (or two) and be able to medicate him, I do 50% daily water changes with a 1/2" tube while he is still in the tank it takes less than 5 seconds to drain 50% lol then I gently add new water he does not really freak out too badly he seems okay with it. I am medicating him with Tetra LifeGaurd tablets inside this 1/2 gallon, it says one tablet covers 5 gallons every 24 hours so I brake it in 4 (1.2 gallons per quarter) then break those in half again so basically 1/8 of a tablet meant for 5 gallons and I do this once a day after the water change it will last much longer this way too (I had to travel out of town for this medication) and while I was out of town I bought frozen San Francisco Bay treats for him I got the variety pack with 4 different kinds I will have to do more research on that before I feed it I don't know if he will even eat all 4 variety's or if any of them should not bed fed to him.* 


























*More bad news the night I removed him I noticed the beginning of I think fin rot; the tips are curling into balls and I read this can be ammonia and/or stress so I am letting him chill out as I said. I hope the LifeGaurd will treat this I did see some red pieces when vacuuming  On the positive side since switching to NLS food over a week ago I think his color is getting more vibrant, and his skin seems to be getting less "white" and more "sparkly and reflective" maybe it is just me but those should be good signs I would think. I thought his tail fin should be much longer in general? *










*Now for the good news (I think) I freed up my 5.5 gallon for him, this is his long term home for good! I know the manager of the pet department at Walmart and he has some of the cleanest Walmart tanks around here, he agreed to give me the old filter pads they also contain charcoal. So I have a great chance now of establishing my bacteria quickly, he showed me the entire system it uses large bio-wheels too so the bacteria in these pads should be decent!*










*I took two of them and faced the dirty sides facing each other then stuffed them both in a very large draw string onion bag they take up the entire tank haha I hope it seeds the crap out of my tank! There was just enough room to add a heater and submersible filter, its a larger model than the other in this thread this is a CS-700 rated @ 185GPH! This will provide plenty of ammonia too look at all the fish poop it can eat in there, it should be free of any diseases like I said he has very nice tanks at that store. I removed everything from the filter media containers and filled it with 5 layers of new filter floss which will get seeded and reused in a HOB bio-wheel filter soon. I also added the Jungle Start Zyme to this tank to really kick it in the ass, I will monitor very closely before I even think about adding him to this tank and of course do a massive water change. This tank has an LED hood so he will have humid air to breath as well  I messed up though and I hope this does not have any massive negative effects on my cycling; my water conditioner and algaecide (which is used in another planted tank) are the same shape, size and color bottles...the water conditioner calls for 7 drops per gallon and the algaecide is 1 drop per gallon...well I thought I was adding water conditioner and it was algaecide so I have like 30+ drops of algaecide in this tank I hope it does not kill the beneficial bacteria?! I certainly don't have to worry about algae haha but I will be doing a large water change before the fish is put in this tank as I said, but how is this going to affect my cycling?? I wont make this mistake ever again!*


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## BettaBabe (May 1, 2015)

I don't know anything about algeacide, but I would probably do a total water change.


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## Delicia (Oct 25, 2015)

IF he is constipated: I have used a frozen pea, microwaved till soft, skin removed. I mash it good and fed mine a small amount with a teeny tiny fork/spoon found in the Betta Dial-a - Treat package. I fed it to him once and he snapped it up like crazy. The next day he was swimming better. You see their tiny stomachs when bloated pressed against their swim bladder and labryinthe making it difficult to maintain correct swimming posture and causing gulping of air {which just makes things worse}. Betta do not like moving water. It stresses them. So, please be aware of this. For me, meds are a last resort. A little salt in the tank may help as well. Research this for your own knowledge. If I have to use meds I use Betta Revive first if it isn't parastic/worms that are the problem. DO NOT use past the recommended time period. I did and lost one of my beauties.. I also HIGHLY recommend Betta Ultimate for the tank conditioning as it performs several very need jobs like protecting the slime coat, instantly "ages' the tank water. If you ever have to mend a broken pot, ceramic, or whatever decoration use only aquarium rated silicone....which generally will hold something like a clay pot for only just so long. Better to ditch it and put an extra large coffee mug in instead. Betta DO change color. However, if that "color" looks slimy, cottony, filmy, spotted like ich, etc. find out what it is first and then treat accordingly. I do believe that new fish no matter what species be quarantined separately and treated for/with a mild parasitic/ de-wormer is smart, especially if you have other aquatics in the tank. While quarantined monitor the fish for diseases for at least 2 to 3 weeks. Hybrid betta are not of the same constitution as wild betta though care should be taken with all aquatics. Not all plants are suitable for betta either. Just because it is an aquatic plant doesn't mean it is suitable for fish who live under certain naturally specialized conditions all over the world. Nature made all species have different needs and requirements. What is good for one may not be good for another. I also recommend that anyone who plans on buying certain fish do their homework on the species before jumping in. Study the diseases they can have and what to do. The best foods to maintain high health. Tank requirements. Keep in mind if they are the type that only eat live food you will be house bound unless you hire a babysitter to feed your fish. Partial water changes for your betta will be needed once you stop using the filter. These are easy to do and take very little time. I recommend at least 3 times a week more if a tank is really small. But with a 5 gallon 3 times should be sufficient. Once your fish is in ful health these guys like live/frozen food. Go with frozen. There is less chance of contamination_KNOW your food source! Betta are carnivorous by nature. I feed mine Buakwa dried, sterilized, pellitized mosquito larvae, Betta-Dial-a -Treat, and Hikari Aqua Gold. The treats are just that-treats. I will be getting frozen blood worms and frozen brine shrimp in the near future. I hope this has helped you somewhat without creating more confusion. It really is easy to care for betta. It is a matter of knowing what to do, how, and when. Also, every betta I have ever had have had different personalities...just like us.

Bump: I agree. Also, there is NO way I would use someone else's used filters. If they are so great why doesn't he keep using them. Believe me just use something like Betta Ultimate and before you know it your fish and plants will take care of the rest....quickly.


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## Betta132 (Nov 29, 2012)

"Not for use on food fish" means "We haven't officially tested if this is safe to use on things meant to be human food, and we aren't going to test it because it's not worth the expense to us."


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

Thanks for the replies everyone, I did a 75% water change on the 5 gallon and I will let that stew untouched now. 

A lot of this was recap but I appreciate it, I was pretty sure the plants they chose to stock at pet stores were generally safe for all fish but I will look into that because I want as many live plants in his tank I can get. I was not 100% on water current stressing Betta fish but if that is the case I will address that immediately...I will however not go filterless there are options for that, and it is extremely important for biological growth using a HOB or aerated filter system. As far as food goes I think I will stick with NLS every day and feed treats only 1 meal a week and at that rate I will never touch freeze-dried foods (which should be soaked first anyway but frozen is better) $10 of frozen treat will last me a year easily, and the most recommended frozen brand seems to be San Francisco Bay so that is what I purchased. The only uncertain food question I have is the amount of .5mm pellets to feed, he certainly seems to swim better after I cut him down to about two servings a day of 2-3 pellets in each serving. 

_"Bump: I agree. Also, there is NO way I would use someone else's used filters. If they are so great why doesn't he keep using them."_

I am not sure who you are agreeing with there but from the now 6 hours of cycling research I have done I would have to respectfully disagree with that statement. I am not sure you completely understand the cycle or what I am getting from this, the reason _they are so good and he is not keeping them_ is because that is the mechanical portion of his filtration system you always need to replace your mechanical filters that is what removes physical waste you can see and weigh. However, it contains everything his biological filtration portion contains as well (his bio-wheel) only problem is it also contains the mechanical waste...but that will feed the bacteria that is trying to colonize in my substrate and clean filter floss inside my filter. After it is established in my tank I simply remove the physical waste, vac the tank and change most of the water and I will have a LOT of beneficial bacteria growing all over my tank. You recommend changing the water 3 times a week in a 5 gallon, but with a healthy colonization of bacteria and a soft/gentle filter running plus plants I don't see why I can not go almost a week with clear water and all zero levels of ammonia/nitrite/nitrate. 5 gallons under these conditions should take a while for a single Betta to mess up; bacteria eats the ammonia and nitrite, leaves me with nitrate that the plants will eat, as long as the water remains clear once a week should do if my research is correct. Anyone else want to chime in on this? 

Thanks everyone!


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## Daisy Mae (Jun 21, 2015)

I would not change the water 3x per week in a cycled, planted five gallon tank. Once per week is plenty, 1/3 to half the water. No more is required unless there's a ton of other fish or big snails, which I hope there isn't.

PS good luck with the betta, he's got such pretty colours.


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## BettaBabe (May 1, 2015)

Sponge filters are great for bettas. They can't possibly hurt him and they don't make much of a current.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

*Thanks everyone! 

Regarding the filter I think I have something picked out, if I have to modify it to get the current I want I will but this is suppose to be a really good filter it is rated for a 10 gallon tank so I may have to slow it down but it has a bio-wheel which is the benefit here:*










*I tried to get a picture of his poop you can kind of see it here in the red circles:*










*I know I said I was not going to do it, but I did; I tank hopped him again. A friend told me they had a brand new 1 gallon Betta tank still in the box sitting in their closet that I could have! It was totally worth the switch again, I feel comfortable leaving him in this for an extended period of time (the 2 weeks+ for cycling his 5.5 gallon)* 


















*He is VERY happy and I am in tune with my fish I can certainly sense his mood by watching his behavior at this point I have seen him through good and bad times. I used the same 2 fake plants I had plus that rock, I bent the grass out a bit I did not realize it holds where you bend them. I had to stick the ends of the leaves into the substrate to keep them bend over and I also put that rock on the end of one so he has tunnel-like shady coverage he loves swimming through this stuff! The only thing I would like to figure out is how to give him a little more shade in a corner or something so he can choose to be in more shade if he wants:*










*The tank came with a sample package of Aqueon Betta Water Renewal that is not only a dechlorinator but adds essential trace minerals "promotes health, color, and vitality" this must be along the lines of the Betta Ultimate that Delicia recommended? I added it, and I am on day 4 of the 5 day Tetra LifeGaurd treatment and I can tell it is working his color is more vibrant the white coating is fading away and the blue is spreading through his tail! He no longer turns like a stiff log he bends and curls his body unlike before, he is very active  After tomorrow I was thinking about adding salt to his tank to continue his treatment? I do not have aquarium salt but I do have a sea salt grinder, I do not think that contains any iodine or anti-caking agents...what do you think just one quick twist of the grinder over his tank will that help?? *










*The biggest benefit to this tank is its fit filter, it has perfect flow that does not bother him at all but effectively filters the water! It has a slit below the water surface that gently dumps water back into the tank, it was missing the filter pad but I can tell it was never used so I cut a piece of filter floss and vola...kind of works perfect because the cartridge would have contained carbon and I am medicating in this tank anyway. I took a dropper and put just a few drops of the aquarium startup bacteria blend on the filter floss for good luck haha, I do daily water changes of at least 25% in this tank right through the feeding hole with a 1/2 hose in seconds and the water can be added back through the same feeding hole:* 


















*I managed to fit the automatic heater under the filter, the tank stays 78F it is perfect. I seem to have something growing on the plastic of the heater though I assume some form of algae? I know rubber can be a hard material to keep clean in an aquarium for some reason. All in all we are doing great!*


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

I ordered freeze dried bloodworms a week or two ago before I located the frozen treats, should I bother even opening the freeze dried food? The frozen food pack contains bloodworms, spirulina brine shrimp, emerald entree, and freshwater frenzy. Only problem is I have no idea which column is what, I can tell the columns are different colors but they are no labeled, I will have to contact the company. 

Emerald Entree™
Vitamin premix with stabilized vitamin C to promote health, Mysis Shrimp naturally attract fish and are a source of proteins, lipids and essential fatty acids, required for biological processes, Spirulina algae rich in vitamins, carotenoids and minerals, essential for biological processes that naturally promote health and vibrant colors.

Freshwater Frenzy™
Vitamin premix with stabilized vitamin C to promote health, Spirulina algae rich in vitamins, carotenoids and minerals, essential for biological processes that naturally promote health and vibrant colors, Garlic an appetite enhancer that helps promote health, Yucca a plant extract that helps control ammonia.











*I want to get him some friends for the 5 gallon, any ideas? Snails? Shrimp? Algae eater? Small fish species?*


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## BettaBabe (May 1, 2015)

I've had bettas tear up their fins on canister filters, but I never modified one. Just FYI.


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## Betta132 (Nov 29, 2012)

Do not use table salt, that's not the same as aquarium salt.
Aquarium salt irritates a fish's skin and forces them to thicken their slime coat. You don't really want to do that. If you feel the need to medicate, just buy an actual betta medication.
Don't feed freeze dried foods too much, if any, they can easily cause gut issues. If you have frozen, use that instead. He'll probably like that more, anyway.
Bettas like to flop on things, drape themselves over things, and just generally act like they're dead when they're only sleeping or resting. It's weird until you get used to it.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

No not a canister lol a HOB (hang on back) unless that is what you mean? Or the submersible canister? 

Not table salt, sea salt, it does not have what table salt has in it but I get your point even if I had aquarium salt you recommend using an actual medication, I read the salt helps with stress. 

I will not bother opening the freeze dried food than and will stick to varieties of frozen 

*Thanks!*


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## BettaBabe (May 1, 2015)

Yeah, I meant hob. Sorry! ;P


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## JJ09 (Sep 11, 2014)

He looks so much better already. I say ditto on the pea, if he still seems constipated. I feed my betta cooked pea once a week to help avoid constipation (about a fourth of a pea, minced very fine and offered one or two bits at a time until he's no longer interested). Mine also gets freeze-dried bloodworms once a week as a treat, I usually soak it in garlic juice. I've read that the garlic boosts the immune system and can discourage parasites but not sure if that is true or just anecdotal. 

I'm curious if you see the curl on edges of the fins resolve? My prior betta's pelvic fins used to curl and the best I could figure out, it was from hard water. pH was 8 or 8.2 but since I've moved (new water source) and made some changed to the tanks, pH here is now closer to 7.6. No more curling fin tips.

Are you doing the daily water changes just to get him in better health, or will you be keeping that regimen up long term?

Bump: Oh, as for tankmates it really depends on the bettta. Mine have always been fine with snails. Other fishkeepers I've seen report their bettas bite the feelers off of apple snails. I have one betta who currently lives with three otocinclus in a ten gallon; I've also had another who lived peacefully with zebra danios and cherry barbs, but harassed and bit the platyfish I tried to keep. Had to re-home those guys...


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

I just ordered it, will be here in a few days I will use a prefilter of some sort and/or block the water inlet with decor so he cant even get near it :wink2:

Thanks, he does not seem constipated anymore he eats and can bend and curl now and certainly keeps pooping if that is what I see floating around that looks like the strands in homemade lemonade. I will feed him 1/4 cooked pea once a week if that helps, I will get some feeding tweezers or something.

The curling on the fin tips has slowed down and is clearing up I think with the LifeGaurd tablets, my pH is always around 7.0 he ate a piece of the tablet like a fool so I read he will be okay and it has not effected him I hope if anything in clears his insides out haha it says it only works against external problems on the box he only ate a small piece. 
I feel daily water changes of only 25% may be healthy in this tiny tank until he is in the well cycled 5 gallon, no? I will test him out and see what he gets along with :smile2:

Just for a comparison here is when I got him and today, you can see his fins are shorter now with rounded ends BUT the ends are no longer curled and dark the damage seems to have stopped and now it is time for recovery and regrowth. He likes sitting on/between two plants that have enough buoyancy to stay stiff under water he is so happy and so am I!


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## BettaBabe (May 1, 2015)

He's looking lovely. He's a lucky fish.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

The blue just gets more vibrant and spreads every day! It is so funny I caught him yawing a couple of times, the tank is on my desk and I have looked over at him a few times and he is just floating there in the middle of the tank staring at me and when I look he yawns haha nothing constant or anything. He does a lot of zig zags and curling around going back and forth seems very happy, also he flares up constantly and I do not have any mirror near the tank I am not sure why...maybe it is not flaring he lets his bottom tail hang all the way down and throws his back fin up but not completely stiff I feel he could stiffen it more, he does it sometimes when I look at him he will do it standing still. Should I be using a mirror once a week to get this out of his system or anything?


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## RugburnTanks (Mar 31, 2015)

His back is looking a lot better


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## BettaBabe (May 1, 2015)

Teebo said:


> also he flares up constantly and I do not have any mirror near the tank I am not sure why...maybe it is not flaring he lets his bottom tail hang all the way down and throws his back fin up but not completely stiff I feel he could stiffen it more, he does it sometimes when I look at him he will do it standing still. Should I be using a mirror once a week to get this out of his system or anything?


No. Even though a mirror can't hurt him, it could be stressful. Like a sudden invader on his turf. He could be flaring at anything, a colorful pen or something. Occasional flaring is cool to see and some bettas do it more than others, but there's no reason to try to get it out of his system.


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## Julie7778 (Apr 21, 2015)

Wow.. Those conditions he lived in were horrifying. I'm so glad you're doing all you can to help him. great job!


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

Thank you  he is my little buddy now, for the time being he sits on my desk and loves to match my multiple monitors as I work....smart fishy 

The filter came in for his long term home today; Marineland Bio-Wheel 75, I will drop that bacteria blend onto the wheel. Also change in plans lol he is still in that 1 gallon and he loves it, but I swapped everything from that 5 gallon to an 8.5 gallon cornerless bow-front tank I will build a riparium for him using this Marineland 75  











He has been building bubble nests constantly, but there is no female, I feel bad when I have to destroy it to change the water lol all his hard work. I can tell sometimes he floats under it and admires his work haha.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

He has been blowing bubble nests like crazy, and for the past 2 days he has been acting strange. I assume they sleep with their eyes open, he seemed to be sleeping and when I tapped to wake him up for feeding he was not interested in eating. He has been just hiding behind things sleeping, he looks healthy but very tired I hope he is okay.


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## BettaBabe (May 1, 2015)

Fish don't have eyelids. If he's not eating, that is concerning. Could there be too much current in your tank? Is he getting pushed around by it?


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## AquaAurora (Jul 10, 2013)

While I have successfully kept 2 (separate) bettas in open top ripariums I want to warn you that some are jumpers. My husband' betta female gets so excited at feeding time that when the lid peels back she sometimes jumps a good inch above the tank's top. She's even jumped out and thankfully bounced off his hand and back into the tank before... Originally we were going to set up that tank as a riparium but could not because of her jumping prowess. 
Betta can jump: from excitement/starling, seeing food (fish food or say a fruit fly go by), seeing other bettas or their own reflection in the glass and wanting to get at 'em.. or just to be [censor]s and die on us....
If you do a riparium a few tips that may help keep the fish in the tank: Don't fill the tank to the top, keep water levels 2-3" or more below the lip (be mindful depending on filtration type this may not always be do-able). Cover the surface in a thick mas of floaters to help deter jumping (floaters such as riccia, duckweed, salvinia minima, frogbit, dwarf water lettuce, even floating stems like anacharis, horwort, water sprit, and wisteria helps). Provide a LOT of hiding places so the fish can feel safe. Do not encourage jumping to get food from your hand/finger. Monitor your betta and make sure it doesn't get startled by lights turning on/off in room or over tank. 
I personally love ripariums and hope your betta behaves in that setup ^^


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

The current is only moderate in one area he is aware of, the rest of the tank is fine it is designed for Bettas including the filter/pump. He is still in the 1 gallon I am not using this Marineland yet.

He did come out and eat today, and he had some energy lunging at the food but he went back. The riparium would have at least a 4" gap he would never be able to jump out of it  something like 60% water so I am not even worried about it.

I bought this cave for him to go in the riparium, I will try to get some Anubias or something to grow off it!


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## AquaAurora (Jul 10, 2013)

That looks like a very rough decoration, betta fins are quite delicate and could rip on that. A good way to test decor (and pretty much everything under water except live plants and substrate) is a nylon stocking-its about as delicate as a betta fin. If you don't have access to one in your home you can get a cheap pair at a dollar store or grocery store. Rub the nylon stocking over every inch at every angle any item going int a tank that is not live plants or substrate. If the nylon snags even slightly or full blown rips the item can damage betta fins, they always manage to find a way to swim by/against an item juuust right to rip 'em.... Sadly face decor cannot be sanded to remove rough spots as they are coated to make them aquarium safe, sanding removes the protective seal separating the paint from the water. Unless you re wiling to re-seal the decor after sanding it would not be safe to put back into the tank.

Btw do you have a pre-filter over the intake of your hob (little foam slip on that covered the slits in the intake pip)? If not consider making one with some foam/sponge filter media, cutting it to be a sort of 'sock' over the intake. Betta fins that get sucked into the intake will get ripped apart as the fish tries to swim free.


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## dbest671 (Oct 18, 2015)

Don't put shrimp in, he will eat them. Maybe a nerite snail or two. They are hogs, I suggest feeding him one a day, and remember his stomach is about the size of his eye.


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## AquaAurora (Jul 10, 2013)

I personally would not recommend putting a nerite in anything smaller than a 10g. They are major poopers and need the volume for dilution. Also nerite snails (unlike most other snails) won't eat algae wafers and very few learn to eat blanched veggies (I had 2 nerites in a 55g-1 would eat cucumber the other never went near it). Because of this you need a lot of surface area with naturally growing algae (diatoms ideally) for them to eat or they can starve. Putting several in a smaller tank will likely mean a slow death by starvation. A solution to nerite feeding is making algae rocks-set up a bin with dechlorainted water or removed tank water set in the sun or under a grow light (on a looong photo period) and put smooth rocks (river rocks are good-smoother-safer for betta fins) in to grow algae. You'd need several rocks as they can polish 'em off faster than algae re-grows. But you still have to deal with the poop. Also females go nuts with egg laying and nothing eats the eggs, they're hard and white and a pain to get off decor (glass you ca use a razor to remove them). It takes several months for the eggs to break down on their own (won't hatch in fresh water) and she'll pile more on before the old ones break up...There is no way to sex a nerite other than quarantine one by itself for several weeks/month and see if it lays eggs.

You can feed bettas twice a day, its better to 1/2 the portion and fed 2 meals instead of one big meal, imo. Mine eat a lot by most owner's standard but they're all very active and do not get fat/bloated from the meals. They get 4 pellets 2x a day. On meat meal days (every other day first meal) they get either one big blood worm, a few brine shrimp, or a few small-medium sized black worms.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

I have heard of the nylon test, its not a rough as it looks! I will just have to see, or possibly leave him be in a 2.5 gallon tank or something. 

He gets stuck to the intake tube in his "Betta Tank" but its not powerful enough and he just easily swims away unharmed. The HOB wont even be accessible the tube is extended with a hose to an area that he will not have access to in a back corner behind some plants. 










No shrimp of any kind are recommended? 

I feed mine twice a day, if I am going to be at my desk a while I will split his dinner up in two so he ends up eating three times but the same quantity.


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## AquaAurora (Jul 10, 2013)

Bettas are predators, most of them will hunt shrimp, some don't but I have one that killed large shrimp (amano and ghost) that were as big as him. That said my most mellow/timid betta I keep a few cherry shrimp with, but I have seen him eat the shrimplets (babies) that didn't hide in the fissidens moss like they should have. Btw consider cutting and stuffing a bit of foam in the intake tube so there's 0 chance of him getting in there (or tie a mesh/netting over it).


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

Thanks, and yes I certainly plan on doing something with the intake end I have many options I'm sure you will see whatever I come up with before I put him in that tank it will be a while.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

I tried feeding his first frozen food today; bloodworms. I thawed, rinsed, and tried to feed one with tweezers and he is not interested. I even rubbed it across his nose the most I was able to get was 1 bite and he spit it back up and would not try it again...I also have frozen brine shrimp but they are harder to feed/keep together. 

Any ideas?


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## AquaAurora (Jul 10, 2013)

Live black worms are an easy aquatic worm culture to keep, the wiggling will get his hunting instincts to kick in. Some people can get them at their lfs or bait shops, sadly i can't get mine locally so I had to pay for overnight shipping to get some sent here, but I keep them cultured in bins with flaoting plants to absorb their ammonia. 

Another options is to soak the blood worms in garlic extract, I've been told it gets some fish to eat foods they refused, also good for the immune system. If you have garlic at home (whole or minced) you can get extract from that.
whole: de-shell and set in cup/jar water in fridge over night. Next day water in that container will smell garlic-y. Pour some into a small bowl/cup, dechloriante, put blood worms in to thaw/soak before feeding. Alternatively you can de-shell, cut and put int a microwave safe container with water and cook it real quick in the microwave. You have to let the water cool before use.
minced: jar of minced garlic where ingredients are ONLY: garlic, water, phosphoric acid (if other ingredients are present do not use for fish). Again pour some of the liquid off into a bowl/cup, dechlorinate if you want, then soak/thaw blood worms in it.


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## RugburnTanks (Mar 31, 2015)

Maybe even small earth worms would be good. Mostly temporarily until you can train him to eat other foods


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## AquaAurora (Jul 10, 2013)

I've read eath worms collected from outside can have parasites or pesticides in them-not good for the fish.


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## RugburnTanks (Mar 31, 2015)

*Please Help With First Betta (Rescue)*

There is truth to that but if you are taking them from your yard you know what you treat it with. Also some parks don't treat with anything. Also most parasites won't thrive in the environment of you tank. If you in the Midwest most parasites will die compared to your tank temp. But yes you are right, feed them at you own risk


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## BettaBabe (May 1, 2015)

If you're feeding a high quality food that's made of fish and not fish meal, he'll do great without live food.
I'd rather my fish go without than risk disease or parasites. Just my opinion, of course.


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## RugburnTanks (Mar 31, 2015)

BettaBabe said:


> If you're feeding a high quality food that's made of fish and not fish meal, he'll do great without live food.
> 
> I'd rather my fish go without than risk disease or parasites. Just my opinion, of course.



I'm with you. But if I have used worms they were a temporary filler for other live foods I couldn't get ahold of. Worms should be a last resort.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

I tried wiggling the blood worms, he kind of seems afraid of them. I tried brine shrimp today and he did not know what to do, I let some fly in his face and he ate one and chased a few to the bottom but did not eat any more of them I think I am done with the frozen food haha, I even skipped a feeding to build his appetite and he wont eat it. 

He is MORE than happy with pellets and I am feeding the best quality pellets I know of; New Life Spectrum .5mm small fish formula, he usually darts/charges at the first pellet or two as if he is catching a live pellet lol then he sits at the top and looks at me then up at the surface more more more! but I only give him 4-5 at a time twice a day (they are small). 

At this point I think it needs to be floating on its own for him to eat it, so I think I am going to open that Hikari. You recommend I soak the free-dried foods but if I soak them first they may not float and he wont eat them...how bad is it for him to eat it dry? Hikari is the only freeze-dried brand I trust because of their parasite free claim.

The jar of NLS that he loves so much sits next to the tank and he knows what it is, I find it funny he hides behind the heater head under the filter and I put one hand on the jar without taking my eyes off the tank and I see his head pop out really fast and stop! I am trying to gauge my fishes appetite based on his ability to bend his body and swim in a figure 8 pattern which he sometimes does, if he can bend then he does not have pressure on his swim batter from overfeeding right?


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## BettaBabe (May 1, 2015)

If he was my fish, I would just let him eat the food he likes. NLS is a great brand. He will likely get better nutrition from it alone than trying to vary his diet anyway. This is based on my personal research. My lfs doesn't carry NLS, so my fish get omega one which is a high quality food as well. I don't regularly give them anything else and they're thriving. That includes my and my husband's bettas.


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## JJ09 (Sep 11, 2014)

I feed my betta omega one micro pellets and betta flakes. The only live food he gets is occasional fruit flies I catch in the house. You can always try soaking the dry food in garlic juice to make it more appetizing, and moisten it first. I do that with freeze-dried bloodworms for him.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

Thanks, I will try the garlic because I put a few freeze dried blood worms in and they floated around, my filter makes the water circle at the surface so food seems lively. He inspected them up close but did not eat them, and they were well soaked after circling in the tank. I had to order this NLS online but it was well worth it the container is huge for $10 with free shipping, if he does not eat the freeze dried food soaked in garlic then I just will not treat him. 

Would you store freeze dried food in the freezer? If he starts eating this Hikari it will last me years lol


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## JJ09 (Sep 11, 2014)

I just keep mine on the shelf. The container doesn't seal completely tight but it does have one of those silica packets to absorb any moisture. I also treat my cherry barbs with the freeze-dried food, so I think I'll probably use it up before it expires. I don't know if other people keep freeze-dried food in the freezer?


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## AquaAurora (Jul 10, 2013)

I never use free dried food, risk of bloat from over feeding. I sue frozen, live, high quality pellet, or flake (non bettas get flakes).
btw jj like your dt betta avatar, is it a chocolate betta or a mustard with blue not visible from lighting?


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## FuzzyCrawdad (Mar 21, 2015)

Mmk, I know this has gone on for a while, and I know you're probably doing okay, but I saw a lot of people who thought they knew what they were doing... I couldn't read through all four pages, so... If it's a recap, or anything I've said has been disproven by, like, a breeder or an ichthyologist, please take THEIR advice instead.

Normally, I DO NOT advocate putting a betta in "betta tanks". Betta can survive in those things, but there's no real room to swim around or be a betta in. But since you've tank-hopped him so much and you've been constantly downsizing him, I guess I'll leave it there. I just know that my double-tail halfmoon Prism has never been happier than in his filtered, heated 10g tank. BUT I had a betta that hated the tank and loved the bowl. Depends on the fish, I suppose.

Secondly. That brand of frozen food you bought? Great brand. Bloodworms and brine shrimp are my go-tos, though I only feed him a few pieces at a time (I have another tank that gets a block of each, they can afford to share a few worms and shrimp). A few hours after feeding him the yummy rich frozen stuff, I always give him freeze-dried daphnia, which is a laxative. Or, blanched peas. You can also experiment giving him blanched carrots or lettuce. Vary his diet, he'll feel like a very spoiled little betta and blow you all the bubblenests he can. The filter will destroy them, but he'll try. No female fish has to be present for a male to blow nests, chances are, he's been exposed to females before you bought him, or ANYONE bought them.

Melafix, like any medication, should be used only in emergencies. Your basic betta can take a full dosage, but you might want to dose only every other day instead of every day. Prism took daily dosage to help battle his finrot, and he came through fine. They're shockingly hardy fish.

AS FOR THE BELLY PAUNCH. If he hasn't lost it, it might just be... fat. Or, a fish's equivalent? Prism's got it, but other than that he's perfectly healthy. Unlike most bloating, peas and daphnia haven't affected it, so it might just be the fish? I'm not sure on that one, actually.

*Your betta really is a beauty, and I wish you all the luck on your (hopefully close to seven) years of betta ownership ahead!*


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

*Thanks for all the advice, he is doing swell and his fins are growing out! I have made a correlation between red objects and his flaring I dont know if its because its the same color as him or what, but red Bic lighters, red Solo cups, etc. If I bring them up close and shake them he swims off and hides....coward lol, I am about to move him into his lager tank soon where he has more darkness to choose from, he does not like the light and seems more active with it off.*










*UPDATE: He has slipped entirely into a nocturnal sleeping pattern, when I wake up I turn on the light we eat breakfast and he goes and hides in the dark after. At night I feed him before I turn the lights out and I can see him in the dark at night swimming around his tank, every time I wake up he is out. Is this natural or does he not like the light? Maybe he feels exposed still? He used to be active during the day...*


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

*I think he was just bored of his small tank, I moved him to his final home which is an 8.5 gallon riparium (in the making). The tank is well cycled with a 0 ammonia reading, which is better than my tap water turns out my tap water contains ammonia! He absolutely loves this tank!*










*The decor is not that rough as it looks, he used the ledges to sit on for a few days until I got a submerged plant: *










*I bought an Anubias for him to sit on and he does! He loves this plant, he naps on it under the shade he went into such a deep sleep I was actually able to get this picture without him moving because if he saw me he would be active.*


















*I get a text in class from my dad who lives with me "BFFL" with this picture, I'm like NOOOOOO I had to leave class come home and swoop these Tetra out! He decided he was going to buy fish and put them in my tank like an a$$ hole...brought them back to the store they would not take them back so I dumped them in their tank and ran out of the store lol. He was flaring as you can see chasing them around the tank they are the exact same colors as he is and I know anything red makes him flare it was just a terrible idea.* 










*Should I get a dim blue light over the tank so he can see at night? Little moonlight simulation?*


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## AquaAurora (Jul 10, 2013)

Glad he's doing well. In answer to you question, bettas don't like bright direct light. They'd prefer heavily shaded/vegetated waters with a lot of darker areas. Black waters (tannins heavy aka tea color water-don't use tea to achieve this its just a term for the hue), floaters, and more plant mass will help will help, the last two being the most helpful.
Its kinda like a person being stuck out in the bright sun on an icy covered field (ignore the temp), no shade, and no sun glasses, don't look up-you see sun, don't look down-the light bounces off the ice.. there's no reprieve, and bettas can't close their eyes to 'escape' the light. Adding light blocking items (plants/floaters) is a great fix for this. 
Since your tank is an open top you can even try some of the larger floaters like dwarf water lettuce(gets a monster root system), but more commonly people use frogbit, riccia, duckweed (hard t get rid of once established), salvinia minima (my fav), even water spite, anacharis, and hornwort are often floated instead of planted in the substrate.
Densely planting the tank so he can't see to far ahead in any direction will make hi have to swim around and explore constantly as he looks for food/intruders/whatever and keep him from getting bored. Having a lot of line of sight break up is a good idea for keeping a betta with any other fish.

The moonlight thing is more for your to see the fish than for him to see you/around the tank.


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## JJ09 (Sep 11, 2014)

His colors have really come in nicely. Doesn't look like the same fish at all! I don't understand why the store wouldn't take them back, did you have a receipt? I've returned fish to store simply because my betta was attacking all the platies. It was a fine reason.

I really like that pic from above, with just the edge of his fin showing from under anubias leaf.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

Thanks for all the advice it makes sense, I am only getting started I want this tank all green (no not algae lol) I did plan on Duckweed & Brazilian Pennywort, plus all sorts of rooted plants such as swords. 

He really does look like a new fish, and he is gaining weight. I think the area I circled under the front of his chest is a fat bump because it is growing too. I like that picture too, he has made this plant his homebase he does not even enjoy the cave at all, I woke this morning to see he has begun blowing a bubble nest under the Anubias leaf. 

I am concerned about the things I can not detect with my test kit though from Osmocote in the substrate, plus I want to begin using Flourish Excel in this tank AND the multi-fert Seachem _Flourish_. If I follow the directions will these products (minus Osmocote) be safe for my Betta?


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## JJ09 (Sep 11, 2014)

I use seachem flourish comprehensive with my betta, no problems.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

Comprehensive?


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## JJ09 (Sep 11, 2014)

Yes. It has macros and some micros. Some people just call it Flourish Comp.


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## AquaAurora (Jul 10, 2013)

I use Seachem: excel, flourish, iron, pottasium, and phosphorous in tanks with bettas. Its fine, safe for the fish jsut don't dump the whole bottle in. You can do an up to 3x dose of Excel to deal with hair algae but do not go above that. Also be mindful some plants do not like excel and will melt/die from it -subwasertang, vals, marimo.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

Oh no!!!! I am noticing tiny tiny tiny white worms on the glass and the more I look they are all over the tank!!!! 

EDIT: After extended research I think they are harmless flatworms, I needed a macro lens to capture these photos and video: https://youtu.be/zaVzI_9N66U


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

That bag of used filters I had in here for cycling is why I had a flatworm outbreak, I did some cleaning and I added 3 ghost shrimp under close supervision. He acknowledged them a few times and everything seemed fine, until one was cleaning his way up the plant he was sitting on (his favorite leaf too) and I think that was too much for him when it wanted to clean that particular leaf which he calls home more than the cave he stared him down and pushed him into a corner it seemed like a warning. The flaring is not that bad and it does not last long, but after that it put him into a mood and he started searching everywhere and he found another one it was tiny, and he kept harassing it not always flaring some of it seemed playful but he began to dart at it more no actual biting though. He eventually gets bored and swims off, they go face to face my fish is very curious and the shrimp tickle his nose. I can just tell it puts him into a mood where he is searching for something, and he begins breathing heavier I can see his gill moving. When he is in this mood he becomes edgy so if he bumps into a leaf or anything he quickly darts away as if he is scared. That flaring is not serious enough for me to remove them I wonder if he will get used to them? He is not the most coordinated fish when it comes to his mouth and sometimes he misses his food when he darts at pellets so I am unsure if he is missing the shrimp or just establishing his dominance. They are clear so I figured it would help, and they are fast so when he darts or nips they are able to vanish. He returns to the same spots where he made confrontations and sometimes they are not there it is funny, you can see he looks around so I kind of get that feeling he is just bored and wants to play with something more then feeling threatened...just watch them? I am going to bed I will count shrimp, legs and antenna in the morning lol


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

I fed him a freeze-dried bloodworm and he ate it, right out of the freezer. Then I realized I should have soaked it first, he got very constipated from it and even refused pellets for a day. He sat on an angle and wouldn't move for almost an entire day! I noticed his pupils looks shiny in the center like cataracts I never noticed that before is that normal or a sign of a health issue?

I have only seen his clear stringy poop that looks like the pulp in lemonade. However the last few days I have caught him taking huge dumps that look painful! Big brown balls the color of his food looks like he is laying an egg, I assume this is the bloodworm but he is still doing it. I cut his food back from 7 pellets twice a day to 4 pellets twice a day. 

PS- He also seems to be recently twitching and jerking, he will be in the middle of swimming a line then it looks like he has a seizure and twitching in a random direction. Other than that, after several days of odd eyes they returned to normal and he seems healthy otherwise.


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## JJ09 (Sep 11, 2014)

Maybe it's too much food. What size are the pellets? I give my betta only 2 or 3 micropellets twice a day.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

JJ09 said:


> Maybe it's too much food. What size are the pellets? I give my betta only 2 or 3 micropellets twice a day.


.5mm NLS, I have reduced to 4 twice a day I think it is helping he seems more active.


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

It's pretty hard to kill them. In nature they live in muddy streams which often dry up, forming small puddles in which they survive while the water quality around them plummets. Which is why they developed two of their traits, namely air breathing, and the ability to jump quite well to find a better pool. One problem I have with bubble nest building fish, is that it makes a mess of your tank and all your plants get uprooted. I had one dwarf gourami male nest for nearly 60 days straight. ... bringing 4 batches of fry into life in one summer. What a mess.

P.s. don't feed your fish every day.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

The mud puddles are a myth, how did bubbles on the surface uproot plants and make a mess? Don't feed every day? I would rather feed less more often then fast him every other day with a large meal.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

Does anyone know why sometimes he checks/smashes against plants and objects, it looks like he is flicking things with the side of his body almost bouncing off them. He will come close and whip lash something and zig zag around kind of paranoid looking, is he just begging for food?


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## WaterLife (Jul 1, 2015)

That is called flashing. A symptom showing the fish is irritated by poor water quality and/or disease/infection.

More symptoms need to be noted to identify what exactly is wrong.
Check your water parameters and looks for other symptoms.

By the way, fasting a day or two every so often (I do weekly) is good to give your fish's digestive system a break once in a while. Nordic didn't mention a feeding schedule, but yes feeding smaller amounts less often is more "natural" as fish graze/eat small portions throughout the day rather than 1 large buffet a day. But fish also don't eat everyday in nature either.


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## JJ09 (Sep 11, 2014)

WaterLife said:


> By the way, fasting a day or two every so often (I do weekly) is good to give your fish's digestive system a break once in a while. Nordic didn't mention a feeding schedule, but yes feeding smaller amounts less often is more "natural" as fish graze/eat small portions throughout the day rather than 1 large buffet a day. But fish also don't eat everyday in nature either.


I agree with this. My fish all skip meals one day a week, and the day after get fed cooked pea- it's a laxative for them.

When I've seen fish flashing, it's either been an irritant in the water - they used to do this when I added dry ferts straight into the tank. Now I dissolve it in a cup of tank water first- or when they had ich. Do you see any white spots on the body... ?


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

Thank you for your replies, this was after a water change so you may be right. It has been 24 hours since the water change and it was a very big water change probably more than I should have there was a lot in the gravel. I am getting a reading of 0 Nitrate and Nitrite and about .30ppm Ammonia, I did use Prime in my water, my tap water registers about .25-.30ppm maybe I need another 24 hours...I did add a little bacteria blend to the filter since I did such a big water change. He hasent been doing it today but it may still be an internal problem he is visually well no spots. 

Maybe I will fast him at least take away 1 meal so 1 day a week he gets "almost" nothing. I understand now what you mean about fasting in nature, it is going to kill me though he will be so mad at me haha.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

Okay so I made an observation with the flashing, and I can not seem to find anything to read on flashing everyone refers to flaring as flashing. With the water chemistry aside, and his health, there is another factor I noticed...environmental factors of change! I was adding some new plants to his tank, and decided his favorite Anubias plant was too large for the tank so I moved it to the front of the tank and floated it while I was replacing it with something else. I noticed this pissed him off, he came up to the Anubias and "pinged" or flashed off every single leaf on the plant! I think it upset him and he was possibly trying to claim territory I am not sure but I sure made the relation between his behavior and moving the plant. 

As I said I added 3 ghost shrimp a few weeks ago, and they had been doing fine but the 2 smaller ones died last week from unknown reasons leaving me with just the larger one. Everything seems to be fine until I noticed the Frogbit I added last week is dying because that shrimp is eating the fine root hairs now, he has plenty of poop and algae to eat plus he gets a NLS pellet about every other day. THEN I caught him eating my Bettas tail!! My Betta is too much of a coward to defend himself, he tries to swim away and the shrimp stays latched onto him! You can see the color of his tail in the shrimps stomach. This was the final straw, once he got a taste of tail it was like a shark with blood he would not leave my Betta alone he persistently chased my Betta until I sent him packing to another tank. I still do not understand the explosion in behavior this past week, it will eat anything now!

Does anyone recommend other types of shrimps that will leave my fish and plants alone??


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

*On goes the adventure, having a great time with this fish he means a lot to me I think I will always own a Betta fish now! I have not really seem him try to blow a bubble nest in this tank at all since he was in the little 1 gallon, although he has been very happy I can assure you that he seems to do a calm flare out of happiness without any heavy breathing when he sees me...he will swim a few strokes stop and flare allowing his tail to slowly sink then swim a few more strokes and repeat, this is how I can tell he is having a bad day because the back fin will stay down and he will not swim in fast pausing strokes. It is also fun at feeding time to see how fast he can really swim as he darts toward the surface for food lol. Anyway, yesterday morning I woke up to a massive bubble nest it was quite an accomplishment and I have no idea where the sudden enthusiasm is coming from since he has been in this tank for a few months now, maybe it is the fact my Frogbit is finally taking over?*


















*This is great and all but it is causing problems for me, this tank NEVER had an oil slick and now this nesting has causing the dreaded blue oil slick I had this tank perfected of this problem (I have another tank that I can not get rid of the slick). It is also killing my Frogbit all the leaves are forming speckled brown spots that look like moisture mold, many of the leaves are under a very slight layer of water now I do not know if it is the oil or the bubbles under the leaves or what.*


















*I had to move the surface around, the nest got broken up be he did not seem to care and he spent all day burping up tiny bubbles that were smaller than the nest bubbles and it would happen while swimming he did not seem to be actually building a nest at the surface he did this today as well I hope there is nothing wrong with him...he seems happy?*


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## Ryan83 (Feb 6, 2015)

The "oil slick" is harmless, its simply a surface film from the frogbit breaking up the flow of water a little. Nothing to be concerned about


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

I am very concerned lol it looks ugly, I realize its an aesthetics issue but it was never a problem before. I know surface agitation plays a big role in keeping it under control but I have somehow avoided it in this tank until now.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

*I bought fresh frozen peas, no preservatives. Is this what I need for the day after fasting?? I have not fasted him yet, I am afraid he wont eat the pea. I may not fast every week, maybe every other. *


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## JJ09 (Sep 11, 2014)

That's what I give mine. Lightly steam or boil it, shell it, mince up _one fourth_ (betta stomach is as small as its eyeball). Or maybe one half, if the peas are small. I give all my other fishes pea on same day- the betta I will feed individual bits one by one to make sure he eats them, and stop when looses interest so there's not extra food fouling the tank. It's actually fun to see him look for the next bite and chase it down. Then my cherry barbs and kuhli loaches in the other tank get all the rest (the other three-fourths a pea plus one more). They're enthusiastic enough for it I just dump it all in and watch them scramble.


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## Melika (Feb 7, 2013)

I've really enjoyed reading this thread! It's always so much fun watching someone not really into animals (or a particular animal) really get into caring for one. 

I don't know about anyone else, but I'd like to see an updated full tank shot.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

Will the pea float? You feed it the day you begin fasting or the following day??

Thanks Melika - This journey has certainly taken a turn! Here are your requested tank shots, a far cry from where I started! I even made a little floating planted island...


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## JJ09 (Sep 11, 2014)

The day after- the fish fasts an entire day and gets pea the next day. The bits usually sink. I mince it up into bits the size of mini pellets. Then take one bit at a time (on the point of the knife) and just dip in the water, it sinks and he goes after it. I know I'm not the only one who does this- I saw a youtube video the other day of a guy doing it exactly the same way- cook the pea, rub the shell off, mince it up with a small knife, dip individual bits of pea into the water for the eager betta. (If your betta isn't interested in it the first time offered, wait another day until they're really hungry. They can go a week or two w/out food just fine when you travel- so it's ok to fast them a day or two or three).

My husband thinks I'm kind of crazy to do this for my fishes once a week. He sees me put two peas into a pan with a small amount of water to cook, and chopping up on a plate and says "I _know_ what you're doing in there!"


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

haha, thank you for this write up  I will give it a shot! He has better eat it, because the tank is in my office and I have to watch him beg me for food this entire time and it will make me feel really bad while working haha.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

I have those tiny worms (too small to identify a triangular head) from what I read they are harmless, I also have what looks like tiny white ants, some move very fast like a water bug along the glass. Anyway he eats those tiny worms they are a nice snack and I am working on getting them under control with better cleaning methods. 

What I am getting at is when he eats them, sometimes he chews them and they get flushed out of his his gills in chopped up pieces as if he rejects it? Also, what is really making me write this is his reaction sometimes when he eats the worms. He begins to chew then goes into a flashing frenzy bashing off everything in the tank swimming extremely fast and frantically and his breathing gets heavy. My thought was he is not used to eating live food and when he tries to chew them they get stuck in his mouth and crawl around possibly even biting him? They really seem too small to bite but if it latched onto his mouth that would be quite aggravating I would think? Any ideas?

EDIT: I caught him laying down today, I fed him a few extra pieces of food got caught up in teaching him to jump. Funny how he lays down and wedges himself here when he is bloated...just shows attention by moving his head and looking at me haha










ANOTHER EDIT: He is totally cool with snails!! Very curious fish though once they were on the glass he stayed with them but no nipping, just eyeballing kinda seems friendly to me no flaring he never really flares for long at anything it only lasts 5-10 seconds and he gets over his little fit lol.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

*Okay so he is NOT cool with snails haha...he harasses them just sits on them or lays sideways and covers them with his tail to be a jerk.










Doing some research on Bettas can anyone tell me if I have a Rosetail? *


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## Zoidborg (Jan 29, 2014)

Thank you for starting this thread, I just spent the last hour reading through every post!

I just wanted to answer/give some advice on the questions you have had in this thread with what Ive went through the past year with my Betta.

I currently have 1 Male Marble Betta ( Pic in My Avatar as well as 5G Male Betta in my signature) in a 5G with Anubias which he sits on/under like yours does. He also likes to Leaf surf on his Java Fern and Ambulia as well. His tank mates include 8 Microrasbora (Strawberries) 10+ Assassin Snails, 3 Amano and 20+ Cherry Shrimp. He leaves the shrimps alone (although I've seen him eat a few shrimplets) as well as the assassin snails as they have plenty of places to hide, most bury themselves into the substrate so he can't see them.

I used to have Frogbit as well but hated the oil slick look and the frogbit root system was just to much for me so I switched to Floating Fern (Salvinia Natans) It's not as bad as before but when I do see the slick I just spray the surface with Hydrogen Peroxide (Also great for other algae). 

I also use The full lineup of Seachems Dosing Chart (Flourish, Excel, Iron, Potasium, Phosphorus, Nitrogen and Trace)

I swear by NLS .5 my lil guy recognizes the container as well and eagerly awaits his food while I open the container. I feed him 5 every day and drop some more in a corner for the other inhabitants. 1 time a week I also feed Hikari Frozen Bloodworms and Mysis Shrimp too.

I'd be hard pressed not to mention I also have 9 Girls in my 20g Sorority if you are interested in that information in my sig.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

Thank you for reading all the posts!! 

Woa you have a male Betta in a community tank? It seems like a controversial subject, they seem happier when isolated the same way schooling fish seem happier together yet until you see it the fish appear to be just fine. Maybe if the Betta is very young when introduced to a community it would be a less stressful life. 

I do not like the way Floating Fern grows in a line which has kept me away from it personally, but aside from when I had a total coverage of Frogbit I never ever get an oil slick in this tank I am very lucky even with the tip of my rock cave breaking the surface between the filter and rest of my tank. I use hydrogen peroxide but only on molds, I never heard of using it for oil slick. 

haha .5 NLS is his favorite he loves it! Mine also recognizes the container, I remove the blue cap and place it next to the tank and he uses the cap where I place it as a signal "for sure" I am not just at the tank to look and he freaks out, starts darting around, flashing, and bolting to the surface. Lately I feed him 5 twice a day, and I stick one to my finger tip and he likes to jump out of the water for them but will only jump about 1-1/2" max and sometimes he just gets so excited he misses several times in a row due to being impatient and not lining himself up first. That is all I feed he does not like frozen fresh foods, and freezedried food gives him gas so it is not worth him being bloated in pain. 

You have a female Betta tank?? I can not even find any female Betta for sale around here I am sure they do it on purpose for a good reason. I really wanted to put a female or two in his tank as long as it does not crowd him or make him mad, I feel bad when he blows bubble nests lol.


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

Lol, I also have a betta that chases everything, snails, catfish, owner. There is no way he can live in a community tank. He is a little grumpy like me, and don't care much for company.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

Nordic said:


> Lol, I also have a betta that chases everything, snails, catfish, owner. There is no way he can live in a community tank. He is a little grumpy like me, and don't care much for company.


hahaha! That is what I named my Betta from day one! "Mr. Grumpypants" because his face looked so grumpy the day I found him and he is moody, I don't care much for company either that is too funny...I will take my fishes company anytime though.

If I get another Betta I will name him Wilson, so I can scream Wilsonnnnnnn at the tank like the movie Castaway lol


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## Zoidborg (Jan 29, 2014)

I was lucky enough to find Blue aka Eyrie Lord of the Veil to be very friendly enough to put other fish in with him. It may very well be because he was young at the time. Although during the first few months I had him he did eat a lot of my Shrimps, he's been weaned off that taste now with NLS and frozen bloodworms.

I agree with floating Fern it grows weird. I've been able to handle its growth buy grabbing a handful or two out during weekly water changes.

I found all my female Bettas at Petsmart, it's the only pet store in my area that even carries them for good reason. Again I was lucky enougb that my 9 girls get along and are very friendly despite all the horror story you may have heard about sororities.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

*I was at my LFS and I noticed a Betta in one of the tanks on the fish wall, instead of in a little cup. I also noticed the price, I asked about him and they were nto sure why he was in there (with other fish) but seemed fine with them. He caught my eye because he looks so familiar to mine, look at the tag it says rose pedal so mine must be the same; rosetail/peddle. Even though he appears albino there are random colors that are hard to see in him several actually, but he has to be moving. Really cool fish and helped me categorize mine!*


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## WaterLife (Jul 1, 2015)

Rosetail is a tail type, not a color (red). And the betta is just white, not a pigmentation disorder (albino, leuistic, etc).

Just mentioning. I saw you ask about rosetails before, but forgot to reply.

Rosetail betta ? the downside of beauty | Aquariadise
Forms & Finnage - BettySplendens.com
Rosetail betta's
AAB-Rosetails


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

Yes that is what I mean, the tail shape; full, with extra folds. They seem to be the least common Betta sold at any LFS.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

I have added an air pump + diffuser to his tank because I am pretty sure my snails are lacking O2. So with that being said it has been a few days now and he is acting differently, using his cave now. 

This morning I almost had a heart attack because I could not find him which is very odd, he never goes in the cave it has been in his tank for nearly 5+ months now. Finally he poked his head out, saw me, and dashed out. Once he was out his behavior was normal and healthy, he ate and went back in the cave. What is with the sudden interest in the cave?!

The only thing I can think of is the O2 level is nice and high now after a few days, so he does not feel the need to be in eyes distance from the surface for oxygen since there is more in the water column now for him to extract with his gills? When I first introduced him to the 1 gallon tank he panicked because he got stuck under the filter trying to surface for air until he realized the other side of the tank was open. I know he does not like the light and hides from it the best he can with plants but with less need to surface he may feel more comfortable being closed off in a cave?

Thoughts?

*EDIT: I just looked him over and he is massively bloated I have not seen him like this before, must have been after his breakfast. His poop hole has a white dot, oh gosh I hope it is not parasites! *


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

So he seems to like to sit in the dark cave when he is bloated, has probably been eating lots of worms behind my back between feeding. Look how long his tail is getting! The blue is also spreading, the curtain tail below keeps growing but his rear tail fin does not seem to want to grow and leaves him incomplete looking. That white Betta at the LFS died a few days ago, may have been from overeating it appears very bloated in those photos.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

*Time for a tank hop! The riparium he lives in is getting crowded and I want a larger tank so I am doubling my space from this 8.5 gallon to a 15.8 gallon, he is already wasting real estate by not getting along with anything else but I love him. So in order to free up the tank for schooling fish I have got him his own tank, he can now live next to my bed in a 5 gallon tall all-in-one that I purchased to build a pico reef and decided not to start one. Half his tanks footprint is wasted space with the cave he rarely uses so I can literally move the entire floor layout of plants to the new tank if I do not use the cave, I hate it anyway the shrimp hide inside it all day and I never see them. I do not think I will bother using Excel daily anymore, maybe just weekly with the fert dosing to make it more low-tech.*


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

3-4 pellets of .5mm NLS twice daily must not be enough, he ate a small Amano shrimp today! Now he is bloated and not moving, do you think he felt the need for more food or was he just gorging? First he ate the legs, then the entire thing in a gulp! I have no idea how he got the legs because those shrimp are much faster than he is and always stay clear of him. He has never went after a larger Amano shrimp though.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

*He has been loving his new home! Not a single complaint out of him *


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## Anorea (Jun 2, 2016)

My betta has shared his 5g tank with 3 ghost shrimp for over a year. I think it depends on the personality of the betta. Mine is super chill most of the time. 

Your tank is gorgeous. 

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


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## tlriot (May 10, 2014)

Teebo said:


> *He has been loving his new home! Not a single complaint out of him *


Beautiful set-up! I just got one of these in the mail (haven't even gotten to open it) and can't wait to have my own little betta tank again. I'm looking forward to seeing the evolution of this one.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

Anorea said:


> My betta has shared his 5g tank with 3 ghost shrimp for over a year. I think it depends on the personality of the betta. Mine is super chill most of the time.
> 
> Your tank is gorgeous.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


Thanks, he does not bother tank mates anymore. He leaves snails alone, and does not even nip at red cherry shrimp. I breed in this tank, he does not even eat the babies! Took a while to get him to this point. 



tlriot said:


> Beautiful set-up! I just got one of these in the mail (haven't even gotten to open it) and can't wait to have my own little betta tank again. I'm looking forward to seeing the evolution of this one.


This is a very challenging tank to scape and maintain, I will be curious how yours looks. This photo is like 4 months old I need to take a new one lots has changed!


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## Anorea (Jun 2, 2016)

That's awesome! Glad to hear that he's adjusted well. ^_^

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


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## tlriot (May 10, 2014)

Teebo said:


> This is a very challenging tank to scape and maintain, I will be curious how yours looks. This photo is like 4 months old I need to take a new one lots has changed!


Please do! It seems like a really challenging layout, part of why I'm excited. Are you using the stock lights only, or did you add anything?


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

tlriot said:


> Please do! It seems like a really challenging layout, part of why I'm excited. Are you using the stock lights only, or did you add anything?


Follow the tanks thread here 

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/2...737-5g-tall-dirted-low-tech-betta-shrimp.html

The lighting is custom made...stock was not bright enough.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

All good things come to an end eventually, my Betta died this morning. Never had a shrimp eating problem, I have had litters in here before without issue...always leaves the large RCS alone. The last few days he has been bloated and not very active I suspected he had been eating baby RCS. This morning I found him in the bottom corner of the tank unresponsive, and his body had lost some of its color. I thought fish float when they die, not him. The RCS were all over him munching on his tail, he could not have died long before I woke up. Very sad day, but we had a good solid year together and I do not know how old he was when I got him...he was pampered during his last year so I do not feel bad.


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## JJ09 (Sep 11, 2014)

Sorry to hear it. I lost a betta recently, too. 
Incidentally, mine are always found on the bottom when dead, never floating.


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## tlriot (May 10, 2014)

I am so sorry to hear about your loss. It's always a bummer when you lose a betta. They have so much personality. He had a great quality of life, and from his pictures he did look pretty old.

Fish do sink when they die, and only float as they begin to decay and the gasses build up in their body, same as us.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

I have never lost a fish in the hobby before so I did not know what to expect. I guess that is the downfall to a bedside aquarium, really ruins your day when you wakeup lol. 

On the positive side, I never really wanted a betta fish to begin with as much personality as they have (and he did) I would never give the trade my money until they clean it up...I did however rescue him so he was free. The more I got into planting and shrimp the more he was not fit for my small tanks, too out of portion and susceptible to fighting with tank mates since I am into community tanks. I buried him in my backyard with my grandmothers bird this morning and replaced him with a male feeder guppy today. I have had bad experiences with nano tanks and multiple male guppies, so I only keep a single male guppy in my tanks...sort of like a Betta only they do not bother the shrimp and snails. I have found this with Endlers too, they just fight and I have no room in a nano for an ugly plain female nor room for fry. When I find Chili Rasboras or CPD Galaxy Rasboras I will stock this 5 gallon with a few of them.


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## Tessa (Dec 8, 2015)

Sorry to hear about your betta but he had a good life with you.

As for fishy suggestions - my vote goes to chili rasboras. Absolutely gorgeous little fish!


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

I can not find any Chili's but both my LFS seem to be willing to order me Galaxy Rasboras. As soon as I find Chili's I will swoop them up...I think they should get along with Galaxy's side by side? Micro-community


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## tlriot (May 10, 2014)

Teebo said:


> I can not find any Chili's but both my LFS seem to be willing to order me Galaxy Rasboras. As soon as I find Chili's I will swoop them up...I think they should get along with Galaxy's side by side? Micro-community


Years ago I got some Chili's off Aquabid and it was excellent. I loved them so much. I think they would school with the Galaxies out of lack of space. Personally I would stick to one or the other in such a small tank.


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