# ADA Aqua Soil - How Long Before Tank Clears



## LindaC (Nov 26, 2005)

I added just under 9 liters of Amazonia Aqua Soil to my 10 gallon tank on Monday evening and it was very cloudy and still was the next morning when I left for a 2 day business trip in Maine and when I returned today, it's still cloudy! Anyone else having this problem?

The bag says not to wash it, so I didn't but now I'm wondering if it's a mistake to not rinse it somewhat. When I went to put a stem in the soil, it kicked up a cloud of dust, which leads me to believe there's going to be a problem every time I try to clean the tank.

The soil itself feels wonderful, it just grabs hold of the stems and holds the plant right in place. I would like to be able to see the plants in the back and also my fish, as I'm concerned that the PH is rather low and that it's also going to create another cycle.

Any ideas on how I can clear it out? I have an Aqua Clean HOB filter, I believe it's a 50, I use to run it on my 29 gallon tank, so it's powerful enough.

Thoughts, advice are great appreciated!


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## Marc (Oct 13, 2004)

Drain the tank and refill it slowly- Use a plate to minimize splashing on the substrate. If its been cloudy for a few days now- that could be the start of green water.

BTW-is the tank planted? or is it just the substrate right now?


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## LindaC (Nov 26, 2005)

It's planted, I just added a few more plants. No CO2 on this tank though, I dose Seachem Excel. I also just upgraded the lights to two screw in compact flourescents, 19 watts, which gives me 38 watts over a 10 gallon. That's only medium light though, I shouldn't be getting green water. Actually the water is gray.

I better dose a small amount of ferts, damn I wish it would clear up. I did a 50% water change a little while ago and it's still cloudy, can hardly see the heater or back plants. I can't see the glass at all.


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## Marc (Oct 13, 2004)

LindaC said:


> No it's planted, I just added a few more plants. It's not green water though, it's gray.
> 
> I better dose some ferts, damn I wish it would clear up. I did a 50% water change a little while ago and it's still cloudy, can hardly see the heater or back plants. I can't see the glass at all.


Green water starts out gray.

You dont need to add ferts- there are plenty of ferts in the soil itself. Thats the best part about AS.


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## LindaC (Nov 26, 2005)

I thought so but wasn't sure if it was the Aqua Soil or the Power Sand that contained the ferts, glad I didn't add any. I did add some Excel.

If it's green water, would my adding the Aqua Soil have caused it? Maybe my upgrading the lights from 11 watts to 19 watts? Hmm, I'll have to go and read up on how to get rid of it, other than going out and buying a diatom filter. 

I can actually see the dust blowing around in the tank, it's like smoke. So should I wait it out, any suggestions?


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## ianiwane (Sep 7, 2004)

drain the water down to like 20 percent and refill it back up. Aquasoil does tend to cloud the tank. Aditionally it will turn the water brownish for a few weeks.


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## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

I have had the same experience as ianiwane. The Aqua Soil clouded the water for a short period of time, but it did clear up.

Frequent water changes are a good thing with a new aqua Soil /Power Sand set up. Also, run the aquarium lean on fertilizers for a while.

Mike


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## gabeszone247 (Jul 8, 2006)

Do a 50% water change for a week everyday. This is what all the Japanese Planted tank shops tell me, and it works will!


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## LindaC (Nov 26, 2005)

Great, thank you all for responding, it's nice to know that I'm not the only one this is happening to. Everyone has been saying how it does not cloud the tank but I beg to differ on that one. I will also need to be doing frequent water changes to prevent the tank from going through another heavy cycle.


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## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

I didn't find the aquarium water to be clouded as much as it was "tinged".

In my case it wasn't as if there were bits of substrate dust floating about for days. It was more like the way water that is holding tannins from a piece of driftwood appears.

Mike


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## LindaC (Nov 26, 2005)

With mine it looks like smoke is floating around in there, like a puff of dust from the subtrate. When I put a stem in the soil, if I don't do it very easily, a puff of dust comes out of the soil, hope it's not always going to be this way, I'm hoping it will calm down soon.

I am leaving work shortly and going home to do another 50% water change.


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## Marc (Oct 13, 2004)

Did the water clear up?


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## Oqsy (Jul 3, 2004)

are you dosing excel by the bottle's recommendation, or more? an excel overdose can produce cloudy water that looks almost identical to the beginning stages of green water. excel is interesting and versatile stuff, but when it comes to a regular carbon source for my plants, i really only trust CO2. i wouldn't even mess with the yeast stuff anymore, just get a co2 tank and be done with all the mess [or continued expense as is the case with Excel]. pressurized co2 is much cheaper in the long run, with a 10 lb. bottle around $8-$10 to refill. 

if you are dosing per the instructions then it probably is just the substrate...

oqsy


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## davej (Feb 22, 2006)

I just changed over to Aquasoil 4 days ago and I have noticed the same problem. The water almost appears smokey, where my return water enters the tank you can see it as if you were blowing clean air into a smokey room.
Can anybody recomend how long and how much,you want to hold back the ferts if dosing EI?


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## Marc (Oct 13, 2004)

Honestly Ive got 2- 10 gal tanks with 100 watts over each tank- no ferts for nearly 2 months. 

I would say- concentrate on the co2 and then worry about the ferts after that.


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## tmm (Apr 9, 2006)

Hi, I have been having the same problem with the aquasoil turning my water brown. I tried everything, and the only thing that worked was capping the soil with a layer of gravel. Suddenly, I have a tank I can actually see in. No more brown water. I have a post in the general forum if you want to see what the color of my tank was. It is labeled Im giving up. I tried everything water changes, uv, cleaning filters, you name it, but this worked. Tina


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## joan (Apr 25, 2005)

davej said:


> I just changed over to Aquasoil 4 days ago and I have noticed the same problem. The water almost appears smokey, where my return water enters the tank you can see it as if you were blowing clean air into a smokey room.
> Can anybody recomend how long and how much,you want to hold back the ferts if dosing EI?


Where did you get your Aquasoil from, Dave? Did you have to order it? I think someone on BCAquaria is supposed to be the ADA Canada rep now, but I haven't seen much about it on there lately.

I'm considering it for the new aquarium I'm planning, if it's not too much hassle to get. Mind you, reading about these cloudiness problems is not too encouraging. Then again, I've heard a lot of fantastic reviews too. I wonder what triggers such cloudiness in some tanks? Oh well, I've got lots of time to decide.


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## davej (Feb 22, 2006)

Yes I mail ordered it from ADG, and had it sent to a friend in Point Roberts. I just picked it up there and paid the taxes at the border.
I have been doing daily water changes and it is definitly clearing up


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## gabeszone247 (Jul 8, 2006)

This what happens when you first use Aqua Soil. Just do a 50% water change everyday for a week.


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## joan (Apr 25, 2005)

davej said:


> Yes I mail ordered it from ADG, and had it sent to a friend in Point Roberts. I just picked it up there and paid the taxes at the border.
> I have been doing daily water changes and it is definitly clearing up


Good to hear it is clearing up. Aquasoil is definitely high on my list of possible substrates for the new tank. Would be nice to be able to order it in Canada, but I have friends in Seattle I can have it shipped to if I decide to go with it.

Thanks for the reply. :fish:


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## davej (Feb 22, 2006)

Here is my tank after 5 days.


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## ianiwane (Sep 7, 2004)

gabeszone247 said:


> This what happens when you first use Aqua Soil. Just do a 50% water change everyday for a week.



A lot of that cloudiness is due to the sand not the aquasoil. That brightsand when first used is really dusty. On initial filling if things are done right there really should not be much cloudiness at all if only aquasoil is used. When using brightsand it should really be rinsed out a few times. Like I said earlier expect the water to turn brownish for a few weeks though.


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## joan (Apr 25, 2005)

davej said:


> Here is my tank after 5 days.


Oooo, I definitely like the looks of the Amazonia. Thanks for posting this!


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## SPL-311 (Aug 7, 2006)

I also am having problems with the aquasoil clouding my tank water. It seems to happen within a few days that my tank is brown and cloudy. The tank has been up for about 2 months already - i may stick it out for another month or two and see if it clears up. I like the aquasoil that much.


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## davej (Feb 22, 2006)

Two weeks now and my tank is clear as can be, cloudiness is gone.
Although the water is still a bit stained, not sure if it is from peat or Aqauasoil.


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## joan (Apr 25, 2005)

I just saw Dave's tank last night and it looks great. (thanks for the shrimp, etc. btw! they're doing great roud: ) He says he can still see a slight tinge in the water, but it was not immediately obvious to me. Dark tank though, so I guess that would make it harder to pick out. Anyway, the tank looked fantastic, I really loved the look of the Aquasoil Amazonia, and I think it's the definite frontrunner for what I'm going to use in my new tank.

I've wondered what causes such drastic differences in how people's tanks respond when they have this associated cloudiness. Some experience a bit of it, but things settle down and it goes away in a short time, but a handful of others seem to have had a nightmare trying to deal with it. It makes me wonder about the varying water chemistry involved, other variables in each tank, how the substrate was introduced to the tank, etc. Or is there any truth to "contiminated bags" out there, although that seems, as Mike said, a rumour of a rumour at best. This is just me thinking out loud, wondering why experiences have been so different. I'm sold enough by all the rave reviews to want to give Aquasoil a try.


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## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

> Or is there any truth to "contiminated bags" out there,


Where did you hear that, Joan?

Was it in this thread on our forum?

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/34306-giving-up.html


Mike


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## joan (Apr 25, 2005)

Momotaro said:


> Where did you hear that, Joan?
> 
> Was it in this thread on our forum?
> 
> ...


Oops, I thought it was in this thread I read it but, yes, that's where I saw it. Didn't mean to make it sound like this rumour has multiple sources. :icon_redf


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## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

Nope, you don't sound bad at all, Joan.  

See, this is how rumors get started. Someone with no concrete first hand experience makes a statement and it gets passed along. There is no hard proof.

I'll believe it when it is proven.

Mike


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## angel919 (Apr 26, 2006)

I'm having problems with my PH using ADA AS, its already been a month and ph is still at 6 or maybe a tad lower. Can't tell since my test goes from 6.0 and up, anyone know when it will start going up a little? The ph from my tap is around 8.2. So its dropping my ph by a chunk load....


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Your tap pH is 8.2? In San Francisco? I thought the water there had a pH of less than 7?

And its not going to go up for years.  A large reason to use ADA AS is so you can grow plants or keep livestock that require soft, acidic water.

Whereas the ammonia and nitrite spikes and possible clouding issues are temporary, the pH-lowering effect of ADA AS is long-term.


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## Marc (Oct 13, 2004)

wow back from the dead!

Linda did your water ever clear up? its been 2 years :red_mouth


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Marc said:


> wow back from the dead!
> 
> Linda did your water ever clear up? its been 2 years :red_mouth


Her answer is going to make or break all future ADA AS sales!


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## Marc (Oct 13, 2004)

epicfish said:


> Her answer is going to make or break all future ADA AS sales!


LOL

I've had some clouding of the water when I use AS, but really i think fluorite is worse.


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## fastfreddie (Sep 10, 2008)

epicfish said:


> Her answer is going to make or break all future ADA AS sales!


You guys are hilarious. Can you help me understand what I need to test to see if Amazonia or Amazonia II is more appropriate for my tank?


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Marc said:


> LOL
> 
> I've had some clouding of the water when I use AS, but really i think fluorite is worse.


Fluorite is pretty bad.

My ADA AS settles within a week or so on a brand new setup.


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## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

fastfreddie said:


> You guys are hilarious. Can you help me understand what I need to test to see if Amazonia or Amazonia II is more appropriate for my tank?


Many have posted about ADA AS II breaking down prematurely, so if I were you I would stick with original ADA AS. Not to sound contradictory, but I set up an experimental tank using ADA AS II that has been up and running for about 11 months. I am not seeing the breakdown of substrate yet or any cloudiness issues, the tank remains 100% algae free, the water remains crystal clear, plants are growing like crazy, SAE and Kuhli loach are still alive and kicking, albeit there are pretty inactive, and I am not seeing the ammonia issues others speak of. Still, given all the negative experiences posted by users of ADA AS II, if I were to do this all over again or set up another tank with ADA AS, I would go with the original and not ADA AS II.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Homer_Simpson said:


> Many have posted about ADA AS II breaking down prematurely, so if I were you I would stick with original ADA AS. Not to sound contradictory, but I set up an experimental tank using ADA AS II that has been up and running for about 11 months. I am not seeing the breakdown of substrate yet or any cloudiness issues, the tank remains 100% algae free, the water remains crystal clear, plants are growing like crazy, SAE and Kuhli loach are still alive and kicking, albeit there are pretty inactive, and I am not seeing the ammonia issues others speak of. Still, given all the negative experiences posted by users of ADA AS II, if I were to do this all over again or set up another tank with ADA AS, I would go with the original and not ADA AS II.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

fastfreddie said:


> You guys are hilarious. Can you help me understand what I need to test to see if Amazonia or Amazonia II is more appropriate for my tank?


I believe that the Az II is supposed to pull down the pH and hardness more than the Az I. So IMO I'd go for one versus the other depending on where your water parameters are now versus what your goals are.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

It's just the opposite. 

The AS I has more peat and other organics in it (actually has more nutrients for the plants and is a superior substrate comared with II in that regard) so it actually will lower ph and hardness slightly more then AS II. The reason they came out with II was because of the complaints about clouding, when they removed the peat and other organics it cut this down. Recently many (myself included) have had an issue with the AS II breaking down prematurely and causing quite a mess in the tank. 

Just go with AS I if your going to go that route it is superior in every way excep early set up water clarity. :thumbsup:



lauraleellbp said:


> I believe that the Az II is supposed to pull down the pH and hardness more than the Az I. So IMO I'd go for one versus the other depending on where your water parameters are now versus what your goals are.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

LOL what I heard was the opposite, that the Az II was developed for people with hard water... so IDK.

I only have the Az II (and just set that tank up last week) and haven't ever personally compared against the Az I to be sure.


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

ADA AS I > ADA AS II for the reasons stated above.


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## Marc (Oct 13, 2004)

stick with version 1 :thumbsup:


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## angel919 (Apr 26, 2006)

I am currently using ADA AS 1 , yea my tap is around 8.2ph it use to be closer to 7 but this year its been different. Other members of a local plant club also claim that it went up. I'm going by my high range test kit and I'm getting readings of 8.2ph

I remember reading somewhere that in the beginning the ADA AS will throw out ammonia and drop ph dramatically. Others like the drop in PH because its perfect for plants and helps the plants stabalize really fast. I'm planning to keep fauna that will like soft acidic water but a ph of 6 is just too low, I was targeting for 6.5.

But some users said the ph drop will balance out and won't drop it so drammatically over time giving me the 6.5 target that I'm looking for. Can anyone drop their 2 cents on the ph thing? That it will drop it alot and then won't drop it as dramatically as I've been experiencing?? Please, any info is GREATLY appreciated! Thanks


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## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

lauraleellbp said:


> LOL what I heard was the opposite, that the Az II was developed for people with hard water... so IDK...


This is true and was the reason given by ADA for developing AS II. However, the premature breakdown of the AS II experienced by many can be a major issue. Even if the AS II is better for people with hard water, what good is it if it breaks down prematurely. In that case, it may be better for people to explore other substrate options. I believe even the main suppliers of ADA recommended that people stick with ADA original. One of them, I believe, even stated that he was not considering carrying AS II anymore because of all the problems people seemed to be experiencing with it(Lol, I don't have the links but they can probably be found via search function here or APC).


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## angel919 (Apr 26, 2006)

any info on the ph problem?


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

angel919 said:


> I am currently using ADA AS 1 , yea my tap is around 8.2ph it use to be closer to 7 but this year its been different. Other members of a local plant club also claim that it went up. I'm going by my high range test kit and I'm getting readings of 8.2ph
> 
> I remember reading somewhere that in the beginning the ADA AS will throw out ammonia and drop ph dramatically. Others like the drop in PH because its perfect for plants and helps the plants stabalize really fast. I'm planning to keep fauna that will like soft acidic water but a ph of 6 is just too low, I was targeting for 6.5.
> 
> But some users said the ph drop will balance out and won't drop it so drammatically over time giving me the 6.5 target that I'm looking for. Can anyone drop their 2 cents on the ph thing? That it will drop it alot and then won't drop it as dramatically as I've been experiencing?? Please, any info is GREATLY appreciated! Thanks


Add a bag of crushed coral? What are you trying to keep?

I'm in San Francisco now. Tap pH comes out to be 7.3 with my Salifert kit, 7.4 with my Elos kit, and 7.37 with a laboratory grade pH meter calibrated at three points, pH of 3.0, 7.0, and 10.0.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

angel919 said:


> any info on the ph problem?


kH is typically the most effective (and easily measured) pH buffer in an aquarium. If you can get a handle on your kH values and how much the AS is pulling those down then you should be able to stabilize your pH. If your kH is going below 2 dkH then I would follow Epic's suggestion of adding some crushed coral to the filter. 

Once you've made sure the tank is buffered, you should be able to stabilize your pH just with water changes. Will take some trial and error but should work.


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## angel919 (Apr 26, 2006)

thanks very much, and to increase KH I can use baking soda? my kh is at less then 1 currently from the tap

I'm planning to keep soft water/slightly acidic shrimp actually. I have 3 tanks currently, 1 is going through cycling with about 2.5-3inch of ADA AS that I was going to plant in. The other 2 I used just enough AS to cover the bottom, still haven't gathered the extra equipment to have it running but will get on it 2morrow since I pretty much have the whole day free tomorrow.

Never had these problems when I used bare tanks for breeding betas hehe.

I think my problem is the KH though. I'm starting to get the feeling that my super low KH lets the ADA AS drop my ph like a bad habit... Am I correct to think this?

Thanks for the support guys. Greatly Appreciated!


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## aquanut415 (Jan 21, 2006)

san francisco water is different than most other water ive kept tanks in. its far more challenging keeping levels where you want them. 

i would suggest to not worry about pH, or KH in the first few weeks after setup. the aquasoil is gonna mess with your parameters thoroughly. Initially, just keep the co2 high, and the lights low. then, once you see your water pH stabilize around 6.3-6.6, in the AM before CO2 turns on, then start looking to move the parameters where you want them to be. but don't try and do it at first, cause the AS is gonna make it impossible.


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## angel919 (Apr 26, 2006)

ty aquanut, I'm not running CO2, guess I have to be more patient. Thanks everyone for the help and info, greatly appreciated!


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