# 180 Gallon Low Tech Tank



## tamsin

I would even out the substrate at the front so it's level, ideally with it also slopping gently upwards towards the back (adds depth). 

Add some smaller rocks of the same colour/style so you have more graduation in size.

It would then add some anubias wedged into the gaps around them and the base of the wood.

Is that twisted vallis you have at the back? I would be tempted to try the regular straight kind, it's a bit stronger growing and taller - you should be able to get a nice dense coverage in the two back corners of the tank.

It looks like you have fairly tough plants, you should be able to keep them fine without CO2, but you want fertilser and circulation. How long are your lights on? That another common issue - try turning them down a bit or shortening the period they are on to help with algae.


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## Discusluv

Thanks for the suggestions! 
The substrate I can make even, not that it will stay that way for very long, but...
Yeah, I have to continually move the substrate from front to back because that is primarily where the fish sift.
I tried Jungle val several times and was so disappointed that it wouldn't grow well for me- not sure why.
The Val on the sides is Italian val and it does do well, but like you said, it doesn't get very tall.
The Leopard val is the val that is almost reaching the surface, I recently planted it in the last month or so, and it looks like the one I need more of. 
That is a great idea about the anubias at the base of the rocks, I didn't think about that. I really like the bigger leaved anubias. Maybe Ill try that. 
The light is on for 8 hours a day and has a siesta during mid-day. The light is pretty powerful, and just may be too strong for then plants that I have. 
Should iI be dosing more?
I have two really powerful filters on this tank- 2 FX6's- I think circulation is good.


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## AngeltheGypsy

It’s looking good. I have found the Italian vals grow taller under more intense lighting, but then have to battle other issues. 
I agree with Anubias in front. 


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## Discusluv

AngeltheGypsy said:


> It’s looking good. I have found the Italian vals grow taller under more intense lighting, but then have to battle other issues.
> I agree with Anubias in front.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You provided me that Italian val, you know. :smile2:


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## AngeltheGypsy

Discusluv said:


> You provided me that Italian val, you know. :smile2:




I was hoping it was still growing for you [emoji4]


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## tamsin

I forgot you have diggers - I'll forgive the wonky substrate 

I think if you can get the vallis to fill out it would look really good, so time or planting more of the leopard vallis is probably what you need most.

If you like the bigger leaved anubias, you could try some of the very large varieties in the back among the vallis e.g. Lanceolata. It's got long narrow leaves and can be 30-40cm tall. Tied to a rock and dropped in at the back might look good. 

For further forward you could mix a few varieties of anubias - there is a golden version of nana with lighter green leaves I grow mixed in as it's a nice contrast to the other darker ones. If you were feeling brave you could wedge some smaller crypts in right against/between the rocks and see if that gave them enough protection to stay rooted.

Have you considered a black background? I wonder if it would make your fish/plants pop more compared to the light one. Just taping some black paper behind is a good way to decide if you like it better without going to much trouble/cost.


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## houseofcards

It looks like you have a two-island effect going so that should be your focal. I would remove anything tall that isn't "anchored" to the "islands" as it takes away from it. 

You should have the branches toward each other in the middle so there is some continuity between the two islands. The ight is kinda dim, but shore up the bottom part of the island with more plant rock to keep the focus there. You can add smaller plants, rocks scattered around, but if they are two big or two much it will take away from the look.

That's my opinion anyway.


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## Proteus01

I read your post, viewed the image, and made my opinions. Then I read the comments you have already: all my thoughts are mentioned (good community, here). A few smaller rocks in front of the large, perhaps a few small plants among them. 
The val in the front corners is perhaps better toward the back. Having it there reduces the impact of the ‘islands’. Just my eye on it. 
Looks better than my overgrown mess, well done.


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## Discusluv

Thank you for all the great recommendations! 
I will work on them and post "the after" to show you the (hopefully) progress made by them 

*I do think that the Val growing on front sides is what is throwing my mind off now that you mentioned it. \
The plan:

*I will order some anubias to tie to the rocks at base, a mixture of sizes... and for variety of color, I think I saw Buceplant had a golden variety that was already attached, growing to rock I could just set 4-6 among the base. 

*Im still kind of confused about what I should do with the Vals, however. Should I promote tall growth with the Leopard val in back corners and behind Island or should I just maybe stick with the Italian val which stays relatively low in my tank. 

*Since I am attempting a dual Island effect, should I take out the sword directly in middle? Leave that area clear?

*Ill get more rock, smaller type to build up and fill in along base of island . I have heard that it is better not to use round rocks, that it looks too "contrived"- their word- not mine. I do have a small amount of petrified wood that I have tucked in here and there, maybe could add some more, but smaller pieces. 
Here is a closeup of these two island sides.


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## The Dude1

I really like it. I don't know if a crinum calastratum will work without C02, but it sure would look nice!! Or pack the rear portion of the islands with needle leaf java fern or bolbitus and do some anubias nana up front. I would suggest you stick with the look you've got and add some plant mass. I think it's really nice though.


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## Discusluv

Thanks, Dude


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## Discusluv

A recent picture:


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## Discusluv

My geophagus have grown so much in these past few months that the way this tank was aquascaped was beginning to cause issues. I needed to open up a larger section of the substrate to allow the geophagus to sift the sand ( which is pretty much what they do all day). Also, have started to notice some breeding behaviors in the Biotodomas. So wanted to create little nooks and crannies where they could mark off territories and possibly spawn. 

With the consideration of the needs of the fish in mind, if have any suggestions on how to make this better : plant suggestions or hardscape, please do!


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## tamsin

I think it looks great just like that! Only thing I'd try is a black background so your pipework disappears and your fish contrast well. But even without looks very cool.


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## Discusluv

Thank you @tamsin


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## jnboone

I agree on the black background. I used to paint all my tanks, but have switched to using window tint. On a large tank it ends up being cheaper, and is certainly much faster. 

I'd put the val in the back in the center of the tank. I think it would create greater depth. Also the Anubias are fine with low light, which says the big ones would be great for the back corners - and you'll be less likely to have leaves covered in algae. Nice tank!

Bump: BTW Crinum Calimistratum grows in my low tech tank. I love the uniqueness of it. It does grow slowly though!


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## Mike!

Discusluv said:


>


Gorgeous geos! They are the fish that keep drawing me inexorably closer to a monster tank. The plant conflict is a real challenge, though. I think I might try some "terraced" plots to fit a few stems in -- make a little lava rock mountain and fill some depressions with substrate. There a few The Green Machine scaping videos that do similar things. I have no idea if that would save them from sifting, though.


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## Wantsome99

I agree with jnboone Crinum would be a nice addition. Also to increase plant mass frogbit might be worth looking into. It would diffuse the light intensity and help with algae. Frogbit don't like surface agitation though. Your black brush problems are probably from the light intensity and not enough co2.


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## Discusluv

Next week am getting some tannin products from Tannin Aquatics to add to this tank. I think with the added tannin tinting water and leaf litter will get a more authentic "bio-tope-ish" look overall. 

Here are the two product pkgs will be mixing.
https://tanninaquatics.com/collecti...n-texturizado-botanical-variety-pack-20-items
https://tanninaquatics.com/collecti...vivo-aquatic-botanical-sampler-pack-15-pieces

Here are the before pictures, will do the after sometime next week.


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## PoPoBTC

Looks great! If I was being nit picky...You have too much negative space on the right with the combined white sand and open water. I would add more hardscape/plants so it takes up ~half of the sand area on the right. (I wouldn't add height just more length) I would also move the Vals and Hornwort(?) to behind the hardscape on the left leaving a space between the glass and hardscape with no plants to add a counter weight to the negative space on the right. Its hard to tell if you have any anubias nana petit but I think the size variation would look nice and also you can attach those to rocks so they won't be moved easily. Great job though!


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## Letsfish

Your tank looks great!:wink2:


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## Discusluv

PoPoBTC said:


> Looks great! If I was being nit picky...You have too much negative space on the right with the combined white sand and open water. I would add more hardscape/plants so it takes up ~half of the sand area on the right. (I wouldn't add height just more length) I would also move the Vals and Hornwort(?) to behind the hardscape on the left leaving a space between the glass and hardscape with no plants to add a counter weight to the negative space on the right. Its hard to tell if you have any anubias nana petit but I think the size variation would look nice and also you can attach those to rocks so they won't be moved easily. Great job though!


 Sorry, just saw this. I dont know how I missed it. 

I wish I could take up that negative space but Im already pushing my luck with the type of fish I have. These fish are geophagus, eartheaters, and take up the sand and sift it all day to feed. Typically when you see these fish in tanks there is very little to no plants and hardscape.
When I set this tank up last year the cichlid "purists" were appalled that I was going to put in as many plants as I did and told me no plants could survive in the tank except plants grown on driftwood because the geophagus would dig them up--- obviously not the case. 

I may need to open more space up as the geophagus grow, they are at about 6.5 inches and will grow to about 8 inches-- I have eight of them. 



I do have some anubias in here, but I want to add much more to the driftwood and maybe some more java fern.

Bump: Took a video this morning at breakfast-- the geophagus are always straight up and ready to eat. @OVT--look at the Ludwidgia grandulosa, its growing great! Thank you!
https://vimeo.com/290150490


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## reddhawkk

I just saw this thread, not sure how I missed it. I have always liked Geophagus but proper tank size has kept me from keeping them. You mentioned round rocks not being good for the aquascape. Personally, I like round rocks, it is what I see in rivers and streams all the time. As for larger Anubias, I really like coffefolia as they have a different look to them and they grow kind of tall. Anyway, I like your tank, great job!


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## RollaPrime

Discusluv said:


> Sorry, just saw this. I dont know how I missed it.
> 
> I wish I could take up that negative space but Im already pushing my luck with the type of fish I have. These fish are geophagus, eartheaters, and take up the sand and sift it all day to feed. Typically when you see these fish in tanks there is very little to no plants and hardscape.
> When I set this tank up last year the cichlid "purists" were appalled that I was going to put in as many plants as I did and told me no plants could survive in the tank except plants grown on driftwood because the geophagus would dig them up--- obviously not the case.



I've looked into the species and saw a bunch of caveats that came with keeping them so to see you breaking a well established planted rule is a feat within itself. Yes and indeed you have Geophagus (who look really happy as displayed by their coloration) but you've managed to create a balance and I find that inspiring. 

Obviously others may disagree but I believe the negative space is part of why your Geophagus/plant combination works. Thanks for posting!


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## erimar

The tank looks great, i am into Amazon Biotopes


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## Discusluv

Added the substrate enhancer from Tannin Aquatics. As it breaks down, will get a more natural look at substrate level, instead of a look of beach-sand.


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## Discusluv

I placed my first order of plants with Hans Aquatics. Has anyone else ordered from this company? The reviews seem really good.

I thought I would try some more delicate stems in the 180 gallon. Test how far I can go with those earth-eaters
I am also going to put a couple stems of each in my 30 gallon- just in case- so if the first stems dont make it- I have some back ups. This tank really has turned in to a plant nursery.

These are what I ordered:
Microsorum pteropus 'Philippine' (Philippine Fern)
Rotala sp. 'Green'
Rotala sp. 'Yao Yai'
Rotala sp. Enie
Rotala Wallichii


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## OVT

I know him and had bought from him before.


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## Discusluv

OVT said:


> I know him and had bought from him before.


Oh good! Thanks OVT


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## Discusluv

I started mindlessly cleaning my tank " under the jungle" ( because my friend @OVT recommended it may be smart to clean under there every once in a while.) and pretty soon everything is out of the tank, floating in the tank, or in the garbage.

I put a huge amount of tannin products in here awhile back, and it appears that most of what is left is trapped under this pile. The fish are happy, but wary of me. Ever chance dodging into another area to see what will pop up.

Oh brother, have a plan before you do this to an overgrown 180 gallon tank. 
I suppose its a good time to do a new arrangement.


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## OVT

Ouch. The house cleaning can get messy. I'm sure you know, but I would use some extra drops of Prime, just in case.


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## Discusluv

Well, this is how it turned out. It is very cloudy- will most likely put another water change in today...
Any suggestions? 
I wish the lights were not so yellow. Doesnt make for a very attractive picture.


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## mbkemp

Looks good!


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## bicboihulk

180 gallon is the next size i will get. hopefully in a couple years when i can get a bigger place. maybe build my own little fish room. bwahahahaa beautiful tank.


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## Greggz

Discusluv said:


> I wish the lights were not so yellow. Doesnt make for a very attractive picture.


Light color plays a big role in the appearance of a tank. 

And here is the thing. You have got a very nice presentation going there. I really like the whole vibe.

But better color could really make it "pop". For both plants and fish. Something to consider.


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## Discusluv

How can I get better color? - I would really like that. 

Im pretty sure that it is by how you adjust the light spectrum on your lights?

Ill have to see if mine are adjustable.
I have 1-72 inch Licah (after looking- the Licah light is not adjustable)
and 2- fluvel 3.0 36 inch lights

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/CIT...-LIGHT-LDP-1800-Free-Shpping/32608351518.html


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## Discusluv

Going to adjust the 2 Current light colors this weekend. Ill take pictures to see what you guys think. 
I am not too good at LED settings. Seems like it was easier to achieve nice colors for viewing fish and plants when used the bulbs instead of LED.


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## Ken Keating1

Where's the location of the fixtures, front, back, center, etc? The LEDs have a tendency to direct the light downward as opposed to the sides(front and back), and I feel your aquarium needs more horizontal light distribution to obtain better lighting and "pop" for both the plants and fish. The tops of the plants and fish are well lit, but the bottom portions are dark. Maybe this is the look your trying to obtain, let me know. I have a two lamp Coralife T5HO fixture you can borrow and see how it works It doesn't have the best distribution characteristics , but it may be helpful to experiment with it to see if T5HO lamps offer better distribution.


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## OVT

I can't tell what the light arrangement is but I would put the 2 Fluval in front because you can change RGB AND white LEDS individually. Are Fluvals suspended over the tank - I can see the 72" fixture only? If you can, have Fluvals about 6" from the front.

I would go for the darker but warmer color for that "mysterious" look. Might be counter-intuitive, but I would start with Red at 100%, Blue at 100, Green 50 and white ~ 60.


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## Discusluv

Thank you guys 

None of the way the lights are at the present are intentional- no real thought concerning where they are. I had the Licah on the tank all by itself initially, but felt like there was not enough light so I added the 2 extra light fixtures.

I think my husband used an "automatic" or suggested configuration for lighting when we put these two on. Tomorrow we are going to get the book out and reprogram. We will do just as you both recommend. 

The Licah is in the front right now and the Fluvels positioned in back.
So, I will switch them out and adjust lights to the specifications suggest @OVT.

If that doesn't work, I may take you up on your offer @Ken Keating1. 

Thanks again for the guidance.


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## OVT

As I have mentioned before, and to up @Ken Keating1 offer, I have a warehouse full of unused t5ho and CFL fixtures and a decent selection of old and new bulbs. Some can be mounted, all can be hung, 24", 36", and 48", from 1 to 6 bulbs. You are all welcome to play with them, free of rent.

I deliver


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## Discusluv

OVT said:


> As I have mentioned before, and to up @*Ken Keating1* offer, I have a warehouse full of unused t5ho and CFL fixtures and a decent selection of old and new bulbs. Some can be mounted, all can be hung, 24", 36", and 48", from 1 to 6 bulbs. You are all welcome to play with them, free of rent.
> 
> I deliver


Your the best.


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## Discusluv

Okay here we go-- results @OVT and @Ken Keating1

Before change shot with my I-phone and further away:











After light fixtures switched and Fluvel 3.0's reprogrammed. With Flash and Johns camera:










Without Flash/Johns camera:










I just changed the water so cloudy. However, Ive been dealing a
lot with cloudiness so I think I need to put in some carbon for awhile.


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## Greggz

Third pic a big improvement.

Color on the fish pops much better. You are on the right track.


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## Discusluv

Thank You!  I like it much better- now it has the warmness that @OVT said it would. 

The next thing that would make it better would be to put a dark background behind the window-film to get better contrast. I really like the texture the window film gives in person, but the color is not doing much for pictures.


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## AguaScape

I agree 100% with @OVT's suggestion. The Fuvals belong in front. The color is much better. The fish and the plants pop a lot more. The other fixture up front was washing everything out. Play around with the settings. They really are a nice light. 

Dark background is a good idea as well. It does not reduce the reflection to plants much as most of the reflection is from the glass surface, but it is much more pleasing to the eye and the camera.


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## OVT

Um, I like the colors and the contrast but it looks dim to me. Man, it is a big tank.
Bump the whites to 75-80% ?


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## Ken Keating1

The important issue is how does the tank look in real life versus the photos? For me it's hard to get good photos and a lot depends on what camera your using. Plus your gravel is white, so the camera could be dimming down the exposure to compensate and the result is the plants are not as bright in the photo as opposed to what one would see if standing in front of the tank.


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## Discusluv

Ill have to look at it throughout the day. The Fluvel lights turn on to full capacity at 2:00 pm- 9:00 pm. 
The Licah is on from 8:00 am to 5:00 pm. This light no longer works like it should- it no longer has any blue, only white. 


Ill take a picture with my I-phone later so you can see the before and after with the same device?
Johns camera is a fancy one; but he is still learning the art of photography .


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## Greggz

Agree with Ken above.

It's one thing to get the lights dialed in to provide the nicest look to your eye. Capturing the color with a camera is tricky too.

Some basic things help. Clean the outside of the glass. Take pics with the room dark, no ambient light. No flash. Take lots of pictures. 

Next are the camera settings. I'm using a Galaxy Note 8. I tested it against my fancy DSLR camera a while back, and I got better pictures with the phone. 

It's also worth it to experiment with different settings. We had a discussion a while back in my thread here....................

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/12-tank-journals/1020497-greggz-120g-rainbow-fish-tank-dosing-mumbo-jumbo-2-11-2019-a-97.html#post11103817

And some of the usual suspects have posted pics with various settings in their threads as well.


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## Discusluv

Greggz said:


> Agree with Ken above.
> 
> It's one thing to get the lights dialed in to provide the nicest look to your eye. Capturing the color with a camera is tricky too.
> 
> Some basic things help. Clean the outside of the glass. Take pics with the room dark, no ambient light. No flash. Take lots of pictures.
> 
> Next are the camera settings. I'm using a Galaxy Note 8. I tested it against my fancy DSLR camera a while back, and I got better pictures with the phone.
> 
> It's also worth it to experiment with different settings. We had a discussion a while back in my thread here....................
> 
> https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/...-mumbo-jumbo-2-11-2019-a-97.html#post11103817
> 
> And some of the usual suspects have posted pics with various settings in their threads as well.



Perfect, thank you @Greggz. Ill read through that thread and take advice and clean the glass. It is primarily that hard green algae that is such a pain in the --- to get off


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## Proteus01

I suggest getting Adobe Lightroom for your iPhone. The free version isn’t full featured but offers lots of adjustments. Dehaze, bring out contrast, blacken your blacks, adjust colors. 
I’ve never found anything better to remove hard green algae than the Arm and Hammer Magic Eraser.


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## Discusluv

I haven't updated this for a long time. Here is a few pictures:


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## varanidguy

Discusluv said:


> I haven't updated this for a long time. Here is a few pictures:




Beautiful! What’s the trick to having geophagus in a planted tank?


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## Discusluv

varanidguy said:


> Beautiful! What’s the trick to having geophagus in a planted tank?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thank you! the trick is a lot of plants attached to driftwood: Java fern and anubias in my case. Also, stems that either grow fast or send down deep roots- like valisneria or crypt spiralis. I have tried many plants that dont work because grow too slow or get constantly buried: primarily carpeting plants and crypts.


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## Greggz

Tank is looking great.

I like the "vibe". Very natural and soothing.

Nice work!


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## Grobbins48

What an enjoyable tank, thank you for sharing some update pictures!


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## Discusluv

Another Update with the Altum angels added. They have adjusted well and are so much happier in here than the 60 gallon. 
Im attempting to do a more stem-like arrangement of aquarium plants along back wall, not succeeding very well-- but, a start. Any plants that you believe would look really well in this background area- of course, need to earth-eater proof and low-tech . 






































Altums!


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## aquanerd13

Very well furnished tank!

What are the bluish cichlids with the long flowing fins?(Not the angelfish). And are those smaller cichlids female Bolivian rams?


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## Discusluv

Thank you!

The long-trailing finned cichlid is a geophagus sveni and the smaller cichlids are biotodoma cupidos.


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## OVT

The tank looks nice as is. Adding more stems is likely to take away from the clear definition of the 3-island layout.
Personally, if you want more plants, I would add vals, or Ludwidgia repens, if you are set on stems.


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## Discusluv

OVT said:


> The tank looks nice as is. Adding more stems is likely to take away from the clear definition of the 3-island layout.
> Personally, if you want more plants, I would add vals, or Ludwidgia repens, if you are set on stems.


I agree, Ill put some-more Vals on the right side, where it is more sparse; but, it would loose that 3 island look if added more. Thanks!


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## Jamo33

Really nice tank! Love the design, so I agree with @OVT 
Don't want to lose that island effect by added plants.


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## Discusluv

I usually take a photo of this tank for updates, but thought this time I would take a video of the fish. The African tetras, geophagus, biotodoma cupidos, and a couple of the Altum Angels slowed down a bit to get in the video. 

A little bit of news: I auctioned off half of my geophagus, 4, at the last local aquarium society auction. While it was a good thing to do to ensure that all the fish had in this aquarium had ample room to swim, Im still mourning their loss. I hadnt realized at the time how hard it was going to be to give up fish Ive grown out from juveniles. I also auctioned off my 7 inch ( actually, donated to the society for auction) Blue Phantom Pleco becuase he was getting too aggressive with other bottom fish. That was tough too. However, I was happy that the Blue Phantom went to a good home- he was taken home by the president of the aquarium society to be bred with a mature female blue phantom that he has been wanting to breed. So I may miss the fish, but he certainly doesn't miss me. 

In the 180 gallon now, though, I have two male and 2 female geophagus sveni--- much better number to get a spawn that will end up being successful. 



https://vimeo.com/368163626


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## varanidguy

Absolutely gorgeous! I’d love to have some geo’s one day, when I can have something over 100 gallons. What type of tetras are those with the yellow body and blue face? Are they even tetras?


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## Discusluv

varanidguy said:


> Absolutely gorgeous! I’d love to have some geo’s one day, when I can have something over 100 gallons. What type of tetras are those with the yellow body and blue face? Are they even tetras?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Thank you!
They are _Phenacogrammus aurantiacus:_
_ https://www.aquariumglaser.de/en/fish-archives/phenacogrammus_aurantiacus_en/
_


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## sfshrimp

All iterations of this tank look great. You could try planting some tiger lotus bulbs in the back or glue them to some wood.. You could get some really nice reds and the leaves grow quickly.


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## Triport

I love your tank. My next big tank I think will be a 180 or 220 or something along those lines. I still have my poor P. aurantiacus in a 40 breeder. Upgrading them to a 65 as soon as possible but I really want a 6' tank for my African tetras at some point. Not sure when I can afford it though.


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## Discusluv

Triport said:


> I love your tank. My next big tank I think will be a 180 or 220 or something along those lines. I still have my poor P. aurantiacus in a 40 breeder. Upgrading them to a 65 as soon as possible but I really want a 6' tank for my African tetras at some point. Not sure when I can afford it though.


 Thanks 
I hope you get that 6' tank soon... took me many years to get once also.


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## Triport

Sometimes I feel like I should have put the Africans in the 100g but the Corydoras and little tetras seem happy there and ultimately I want something bigger for the Africans.


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## Discusluv

Triport said:


> Sometimes I feel like I should have put the Africans in the 100g but the Corydoras and little tetras seem happy there and ultimately I want something bigger for the Africans.


Did you loose any fish with the move? I dread to even think about if I had to move all my tanks and fish. That would be a nightmare!


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## Triport

Discusluv said:


> Did you loose any fish with the move? I dread to even think about if I had to move all my tanks and fish. That would be a nightmare!


It was super stressful but the house that I bought was just 4 minutes away from the house I was renting for years and I had about a six week period to move my stuff over gradually. I bought an extra 40 breeder tank as quarantine and set that up at the new house first. Then brought over fish from one tank and put them in that. Then cleaned and broke down their empty tank and brought that over and set it up for the next tank of fish. So bit by bit I got it done. I didn't lose any fish in the move though a few here and there have died since then but I think it was mostly just random fish deaths (a few were pretty old). Nothing to do with the move as far as I can tell.

But yeah I hope to never move again.


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## Discusluv

Triport said:


> It was super stressful but the house that I bought was just 4 minutes away from the house I was renting for years and I had about a six week period to move my stuff over gradually. I bought an extra 40 breeder tank as quarantine and set that up at the new house first. Then brought over fish from one tank and put them in that. Then cleaned and broke down their empty tank and brought that over and set it up for the next tank of fish. So bit by bit I got it done. I didn't lose any fish in the move though a few here and there have died since then but I think it was mostly just random fish deaths (a few were pretty old). Nothing to do with the move as far as I can tell.
> 
> But yeah I hope to never move again.


 Thats much easier than having to do it in one or two days. Fortunately the new house was close to your rental. 

Congrats again on the purchase of your new home


----------



## Discusluv

Some pictures of the 180:


----------



## Discusluv

I would sure like to redo this aquascape-- its beginning to bore me. 
Anyone have any ideas for a rescape? 

Criteria:
Must have areas of open sand for geophagus and other eartheaters to sift. 
Only fast growing, deep rooted plants in substrate because of movement of substrate by eartheaters. 

Maybe a single Island design of some sort??


----------



## minorhero

Discusluv said:


> I would sure like to redo this aquascape-- its beginning to bore me.
> Anyone have any ideas for a rescape?
> 
> Criteria:
> Must have areas of open sand for geophagus and other eartheaters to sift.
> Only fast growing, deep rooted plants in substrate because of movement of substrate by eartheaters.
> 
> Maybe a single Island design of some sort??


I am going to be rescaping my spec V later tonight so I am literally going to suggest the same exact scape I am going to do but obviously for you on a MUCH larger scale.

Take the back left corner and build up some rocks so you create a plateau in that corner. Then plant ontop of that plateau. Have rocks trailing down away from it with one or more rocky outcrops farther away towards the other end of the tank. Everything else is sand. 

/shrug just an idea that has been buzzing around in my mind for a few days for my tank.


----------



## Discusluv

minorhero said:


> I am going to be rescaping my spec V later tonight so I am literally going to suggest the same exact scape I am going to do but obviously for you on a MUCH larger scale.
> 
> Take the back left corner and build up some rocks so you create a plateau in that corner. Then plant ontop of that plateau. Have rocks trailing down away from it with one or more rocky outcrops farther away towards the other end of the tank. Everything else is sand.
> 
> /shrug just an idea that has been buzzing around in my mind for a few days for my tank.


 Sounds intresting. Ill wait to see how you design yours to give me a better idea what this looks like. Thank you! I appreciate the suggestion. 



Looks like I would need to order some more rock for a design like this. Currently have Icelandic lava stone in tank. Would this work for the design you are thinking or would I need a different form of rock ( which I am willing to do if needed).


----------



## minorhero

Discusluv said:


> Sounds intresting. Ill wait to see how you design yours to give me a better idea what this looks like. Thank you! I appreciate the suggestion.
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like I would need to order some more rock for a design like this. Currently have Icelandic lava stone in tank. Would this work for the design you are thinking or would I need a different form of rock ( which I am willing to do if needed).


Any rock could work, the most important thing being that you like the look of a type of rock.


----------



## minorhero

Discusluv said:


> Sounds intresting. Ill wait to see how you design yours to give me a better idea what this looks like. Thank you! I appreciate the suggestion.
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like I would need to order some more rock for a design like this. Currently have Icelandic lava stone in tank. Would this work for the design you are thinking or would I need a different form of rock ( which I am willing to do if needed).












Here is kind of what I was thinking with my design assuming the back left would be the corner of the aquarium you could pile up some substrate/raise the bottom with bags of pea gravel and then plant into the raised level. 

My spec v was too small to make it work properly and still have room for cleaning. So this is what I ended up with:










Same idea but I couldn't pile the rocks up and still make it look good so I ended up with the wood supporting one side.


----------



## Discusluv

minorhero said:


> Here is kind of what I was thinking with my design assuming the back left would be the corner of the aquarium you could pile up some substrate/raise the bottom with bags of pea gravel and then plant into the raised level.
> 
> My spec v was too small to make it work properly and still have room for cleaning. So this is what I ended up with:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same idea but I couldn't pile the rocks up and still make it look good so I ended up with the wood supporting one side.


Looks great!


----------



## Discusluv

Any other ideas to inspire me on an aquascape- rescape- on the 180?


----------



## Grobbins48

What if you combined the two major islands into one island that is offset to the right side of the tank to create a peninsula layout. Then have some of the branches go left to right in to the open sand area. This leaves one side densely planted, and the other side open sand for sifting. 

Not my image (googled peninsula planted tank aquascape) but a much larger version of something like this, which may be part of inspiration for what my 75 will become.


----------



## Discusluv

Grobbins48 said:


> What if you combined the two major islands into one island that is offset to the right side of the tank to create a peninsula layout. Then have some of the branches go left to right in to the open sand area. This leaves one side densely planted, and the other side open sand for sifting.
> 
> Not my image (googled peninsula planted tank aquascape) but a much larger version of something like this, which may be part of inspiration for what my 75 will become.


 Well, I kinda had this design before this last one with this:























Although, I could change this look by elevating substrate on left side, adding more rock, and making it look more like a rocky area with some branches -- emphasis more on rock formation than on wood branches? My tanks are always very wood centric.


----------



## Grobbins48

Another idea for single island


----------



## Discusluv

Epic is right-- wowza!


----------



## Triport

Green Aqua is one of my favorite channels. They do great stuff.


----------



## Discusluv

This may be of interest to someone:


Do not trust that a UV filter will save you if there are Ich cysts on plants. Make sure that you pre-treat stems before adding to aquarium. 

In my case, I was too cavalier about the effectiveness of my UV ( I have a pretty good UV system on this tank- an Aqua Ultraviolet 15 watt unit) and when I had a moment of "maybe I should pre-treat stems" - I dismissed it with "the UV will take care of it". ~Nope. The other thing is I haven't had Ich in over a decade-- I always give new fish a prophylactic round of Paraguard- to ensure no issues with Ich and as an anti-bacterial to put down bacteria that may be developing on fins, scales, mouth, etc... from rough-handling, netting, and scale injuries. Safe and efficient. 

Should have done the exact same procedure in tank on day one and turned off UV. 
What I do think the UV filter did is keep the numbers low enough that it took 7 days for me to notice the outbreak-- when the Ich parasite finally got the upper hand of the fish. 

How I noticed infection of parasite on fish:

I noticed the Ich in morning when turned on tank light because of unusual behavior of fish: my fish were all congregated at top level of aquarium because higher oxygen level at this quadrant. It was especially telling to see the geophagus up at this level-- very unusual. They were not actually gasping at the surface- not yet- because the parasite load has not compromised their gills ( as yet-- and hopefully not at any point) so prolifically that they feel the need to. 

I am not too worried that I will actually lose fish from the Ich; but the next 24 hours will tell. 

What I did:

1. Immediate water change/gravel vac to lower parasite load in aquarium- 50%.
2. Added an extra air pump to increase available oxygen in aquarium.
3. Paraguard. 

The next 4 days will do daily water changes and substrate vacs and re-dose Paraguard after each change. These water changes are crucial because they can substantially reduce the parasite load in aquarium. [Fortunately, the life-cycle of Ich is very quick compared to the complicated life-cycle of say Gill flukes-- so, at above 70 degrees the parasite will go through its life-cycle within 10 days. At 80 degrees, which my tank is set at-- this will be shortened to 7 days. ] On 5th -7th day Ill dose meds and on 8th day do 75% water change to clear meds. 

While this has been frustrating it has also been educational watching the symptoms the fish display when infected.

*The geophagus back up and shake, then turn their whole bodies even with substrate and rub. Attempting to back away from parasite to get away from it or rub it off. The cichlids all appear the least affected by the parasite. As if just irritated. Of the cichlids, the biotodoma cupido's appear most unaffected.

* Interestingly, the corydoras ( that I can see) appear like they do not have cysts on body. Scurrying around the substrate as normal. 

* The tetras are the most affected with cysts on fins, body-- appearing as a dusting of salt. They are not in late stages where are gasping at surface- but hovering together near air-stones and shimmying among the others. The fins are not clamped-- I would expect them to be. Occasionally they rub on plants or dart as if trying to get away from parasite. 

* The siamese algae eater is rubbing constantly and darting around the aquarium. Very irritated. 

Ill keep those posted that are interested.


----------



## Greggz

Discusluv said:


> This may be of interest to someone:
> 
> 
> Do not trust that a UV filter will save you if there are Ich cysts on plants. Make sure that you pre-treat stems before adding to aquarium.


I am very sorry to hear this, and hope that the battle goes well and your fish all survive and heal.

I am convinced my bout of Ich earlier this year was brought in by plants. No fish had been added in quite a long time, and like you had not seen Ich in the tank for a VERY long time. 

In my case, my guard was down and it did not go well. Good to see you started battling back right away. The earlier you start treatment the better, so always good to have medication on hand whether you have had issues with Ich in the past or not. 

Good luck and hoping for the best.


----------



## Maryland Guppy

Discusluv said:


> Do not trust that a UV filter will save you if there are Ich cysts on plants. Make sure that you pre-treat stems before adding to aquarium.





Greggz said:


> I am convinced my bout of Ich earlier this year was brought in by plants. No fish had been added in quite a long time, and like you had not seen Ich in the tank for a VERY long time.


I've not dealt with Ich since the 70's.
Many plants pass thru my tanks though.

What treatment for plants can remedy this???


----------



## Discusluv

Greggz said:


> I am very sorry to hear this, and hope that the battle goes well and your fish all survive and heal.
> 
> I am convinced my bout of Ich earlier this year was brought in by plants. No fish had been added in quite a long time, and like you had not seen Ich in the tank for a VERY long time.
> 
> In my case, my guard was down and it did not go well. Good to see you started battling back right away. The earlier you start treatment the better, so always good to have medication on hand whether you have had issues with Ich in the past or not.
> 
> Good luck and hoping for the best.


 You know that was what it was-- the plants. 

I had never had plants introduce Ich into my aquarium so I didn't take it seriously enough. 

This is a definite entry site into the aquarium so must take precautions. 



In the future Ill just dose with Paraguard for a few days? I dont know= what else do people do? 



Thanks Greggz-- this hobby has a way of reminding us to not get too big for our britches' 

Bump:


Maryland Guppy said:


> I've not dealt with Ich since the 70's.
> Many plants pass thru my tanks though.
> 
> What treatment for plants can remedy this???


 Well, against better judgement I bought plants at a LFS that had a group of fish in with the plants. 



I know Paraguard can remedy this dosed into the aquarium. Beyond that I dont know.


----------



## Streetwise

I found it helpful to setup some utility tanks, with some foam, mild filters, heaters, and maybe a bit of soil in one. They provide a place for quarantine, treatment, plant scraps, etc. I have a five-slice betta tank, and two pico cubes running all the time. Honestly, the best thing is if I trim or pull a plant, I don't have to have a plan; I just throw it in one of the utility tanks.

Cheers


----------



## Ken Keating1

Ouch, sorry to hear this happened! Hopefully this will turn around quickly, it looks like you have a good plan of attack. Keep us posted on the progress.


----------



## Discusluv

So far, so good- no deaths. But, three or four of the _alestopetrsius brichardi_ ( Congo tetras) are covered with Ich from top to tail. Of all the fish, these are the most affected. Of course my most expensive tetras.

I am seeing some red as well on various fish where the parasite has introduced bacteria where they are feeding. Debating on adding kanamycin to mix to stop that bacteria from spreading. 

Will also lower temp 2 degrees ( Its setting at 80 degrees right now, the normal temp for this tank) to slow down bacterial spread. Yes, I know, they often say to raise temperature for Ich to hasten life-cycle but this does not provide the whole story. Sure, the parasite may complete its cycle earlier, but bacteria will do its job much more effectively as well at a higher temperature. The fish now not only having to deal with a parasite, but a quickly spreading bacterial infection. Many times it is not the parasite that feeds on the fish that kills it, but the secondary bacterial infection.

Today's plan:
Re-dosed the Paraguard this morning.
Water change later with gravel vac and will then add back Paraguard took out through water change. Also, will evaluate after water change if kanamycin is needed. First cup of coffee hasn't done its job yet- only one eye open.


----------



## Discusluv

Bad. Very bad.


----------



## Blue Ridge Reef

Oh no. Hope you didn't lose your red congos.


----------



## Discusluv

Blue Ridge Reef said:


> Oh no. Hope you didn't lose your red congos.


Thats what I have lost so far- 3 of them.


----------



## Grobbins48

Discusluv said:


> Thats what I have lost so far- 3 of them.


Oh no... I am so sorry to hear you dealing with this! I do hope this clears up soon with no more losses. Thank you for sharing the story above. Hopefully it will help other, I know I have learned from it!


----------



## Greggz

Very, very sorry to hear this.

I know how painful it is.

Good luck and I hope things take a turn for the better quickly.


----------



## Discusluv

Today: Okay, settled down now so Ill update:


In 180 and 60 I vacuumed substrate and moved all rocks and wood to vacuum underneath and make sure no dead fish. 
Did 75 % water change in each. 

In discus tank, none of fish look too bad. Discus produce a huge amount of mucus on a regular basis ( much more than most fish) so they have a natural sloughing ability that ( I believe) helps slough these parasites off them much quicker. The tank was full of mucus on the side glass, I wiped it down real good because this mucus is also a growth inhibitor. The discus is unusual because they feed their fry from the mucus that they exude from their bodies. I.E: the fry "eat the mucus off of their parents.
Dont see any secondary bacterial infections. Re-dosed Paraguard.

In 180-- different story. 
I didn't notice this outbreak until it had become widespread. And, because the fish were so infested, I believe they had already gone through 1 life-cycle of development with the parasite before I noticed it. The first time around, I think the UV sterilizer kept the numbers of the parasite load low. But, by the time it got to the second complete life-cycle, the fish were stressed, their immunity lowered, and the parasite got the upper hand. 
Often you will see 1 variety of fish succumb much quicker to this parasite than another species in a tank. In this case it was my African tetra, alestopetersius brichardii. Ive heard a conversation that there are actually more than one form of Ich, some more virulent than others. The virulence may have something to do with a type of Ich parasite being endemic to a certain geographical area. In the wild, fish that are also from this area are exposed to the parasite in low numbers ( but, never to the point that it kills them) and they, in time, grow some immunity to them-- as if inoculated. Now, when you put an Ich parasite in a tank that a fish has been exposed to in the wild, they have some immunity from this parasite and do not die as readily as a fish who has not been exposed. 

Again, it is one of the wild African tetras that has taken the brunt of attack-- a fish very rare to the states and most likely never having come in to contact with this Ich form. The other 3 types from Africa in tank are also stressed-- more so than any of the other fish--- with the exception of the Siamese algae eater. But, they still look pretty strong despite this. I would be surprised if they didn't make it.

When I started adding water back into the tank I put the hose up high so it would agitate the top of the water, the fish were almost grateful. they hovered around where the water splashed into the tank and shook their fins, tails, etc... All except the brichardii, that is--- they are clustered individually low in the tank near foliage- to weak to keep themselves upright in that kind of water movement.

I re-dosed Paraguard and added kanamycin for secondary bacterial infections ( which are on the brichardii mainly. ) Reddened areas that are primarily right at base of fins. The fins also look a bit tattered, but no fungal growth. I think the malachite green/metheleyne blue in Paraguard is helping with that.


----------



## Discusluv

Lost 5 brichardi so far. The other 2 are holding on- but do not look great. 
Crazy how this parasite has affected one species of fish so much more than the others. 
No other fish have died.

This parasite is relentless. The geophagus are fighting them now, it looks like the tetras got the brunt of first wave and the cichlids the next. 
Been doing water changes daily on the 60 gallon as well as 180. I have been feeding them food with Vitachem ( all the fish) to give them the energy they need to fight of infection. Also have been adding to water column for those that are too weak to eat. 

The discus are pretty much fully recovered because noticed it early in their tank. Stopping medication and turning up the heat for the rest of treatment because they do so well under high temperatures and all danger of secondary bacteria has passed. 


There are still active parasites on cichlids in 180 so will continue to keep dosing for 4 full days after all signs of parasite are gone.


----------



## Discusluv

What a difference a day makes-- with the exception of 2 of the brichardii tetras ALMOST all tetras good as new. The last 2 brichardi are good though-- turning the corner. 

But, now, the worry is with 1 geophagus female. She is feeling so bad she almost crushes my heart to look at her look at me with those big eyes and sad lips. Accusing me that I cared more for new plants looking pretty in my tank than my fishes health. I feel immensely guilty. 

The other fish that still struggles is the Siamese
algae eater that has been a pain in the - since I got him: chasing the corydoras, lunging at the cupidos. h
He is a bit of a bully. I have warned him several times he is going to be turned over to a LFS. ~ But, I really dont mean it. He doesn't hurt the other fish-- he is just too rough sometimes. So, again, I feel sad for him. 

I dosed the last dose of Kanamycin. I believe it really helped with the worst of the secondary bacterial infections-- which were quite severe on the African tetras and the geophagus. Again, dosed the Paraguard. 
I also added some salt to increase osmoregulation. Not a lot with the corydoras and tetras, but some. 

Unless someone dies I wont be updating for awhile. 
I hope somewhere in this thread I am a help to someone.


----------



## Squisher

Best of luck with the recovery. Thanks for updating and documenting. I think it is helpful to people to read how outbreaks and problems are dealt with.


----------



## Grobbins48

Wishing you well with the rest of the recovery. Hope you get to focus on the fun things like the rescape you were thinking of soon!


----------



## Ken Keating1

Your ich posts have been very helpful, plus it makes us realize how quickly things can change in our tanks. Good to hear it’s turning around for the better. Please continue posting as I’m learning a lot from your posts.


----------



## Discusluv

Squisher said:


> Best of luck with the recovery. Thanks for updating and documenting. I think it is helpful to people to read how outbreaks and problems are dealt with.


Thank you- I agree. All of it: mistakes, thought processes, and the small victories.

Bump:


Grobbins48 said:


> Wishing you well with the rest of the recovery. Hope you get to focus on the fun things like the rescape you were thinking of soon!


 Right? That seems like so long ago--lol! These times are really stressful-- 
No more LFS plants-ever.

Bump:


Ken Keating1 said:


> Your ich posts have been very helpful, plus it makes us realize how quickly things can change in our tanks. Good to hear it’s turning around for the better. Please continue posting as I’m learning a lot from your posts.


For sure-- I will


----------



## Discusluv

Thanks @Ken Keating1 for the beautiful plants! 
It really helped me to look at my tank as "healthy again" after dealing with such a hard month of illness. 
Your the best


----------



## cmid21

I am so sorry you experienced this outbreak. As a complete beginner, that hasn't yet set up their first fish tank I did want to make sure I take the time to thank you for sharing your experience with the forum. (me) I have written down your experience and diligent actions toward the situation and printed it out. Undoubtedly, this will prove a valuable resource if I end up in the same situation, and I am sure it has helped others as well. So thank you!


I don't want to sidetrack this thread too much from the beautiful pictures, but it might be beneficial to include how you prepare new plants and fish when adding to your tank (ie the normal process and the steps you skipped). I know there are numerous resources that provide information on the process of adding new fish/plants, but it could be helpful to have it all in one thread. You could see the direct cause and effect in your journal. Just a thought, to continue to turn this negative situation into positive information for new learners like myself!


Anyways, thanks for the interesting posts!


----------



## Discusluv

cmid21 said:


> I am so sorry you experienced this outbreak. As a complete beginner, that hasn't yet set up their first fish tank I did want to make sure I take the time to thank you for sharing your experience with the forum. (me) I have written down your experience and diligent actions toward the situation and printed it out. Undoubtedly, this will prove a valuable resource if I end up in the same situation, and I am sure it has helped others as well. So thank you!
> 
> 
> I don't want to sidetrack this thread too much from the beautiful pictures, but it might be beneficial to include how you prepare new plants and fish when adding to your tank (ie the normal process and the steps you skipped). I know there are numerous resources that provide information on the process of adding new fish/plants, but it could be helpful to have it all in one thread. You could see the direct cause and effect in your journal. Just a thought, to continue to turn this negative situation into positive information for new learners like myself!
> 
> 
> Anyways, thanks for the interesting posts!



Im so glad this was helpful to you, I had hoped it would be to someone. 


Now that I have gone through this experience I am using a low concentration bleach solution procedure for all plants that go into my aquarium regardless of source. I found this procedure here on the forum posted by @PlantedRich ( thank you @PlantedRich). The details are in post 12.


https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/...1-best-way-treat-new-plants-caught-hydra.html




I didnt have much cause for worry, though. A reputable source is one of the best ways to prevent bringing in parasites/pathogens.


----------



## Triport

Oh no. Sorry for all your losses. I lost a bunch of lamp-eye Congos once because I failed to quarantine some new fish. Won't make that expensive mistake again.


----------



## Discusluv

Triport said:


> Oh no. Sorry for all your losses. I lost a bunch of lamp-eye Congos once because I failed to quarantine some new fish. Won't make that expensive mistake again.


Lost all but 1 of the brichardi and lost one geophagus. To think of it still makes me sick to my stomach. Not only because of the cost- about 300.00 worth of fish- but because they were all so beautiful.


----------



## Desert Pupfish

Discusluv said:


> Im so glad this was helpful to you, I had hoped it would be to someone.
> 
> Now that I have gone through this experience I am using a low concentration bleach solution procedure for all plants that go into my aquarium regardless of source. I found this procedure here on the forum posted by @PlantedRich ( thank you @PlantedRich). The details are in post 12.
> 
> https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/...1-best-way-treat-new-plants-caught-hydra.html
> 
> I didnt have much cause for worry, though. A reputable source is one of the best ways to prevent bringing in parasites/pathogens.


Thanks for sharing this link, Amy. Read through that thread you linked to, but it didn't say if the bleach dip kills snails too? I'm often sharing plants with people, and don't want to send them any snail hitchhikers if I can help it. I know potassium permanganate will kill snails, but I'd have to special order it, and it's likely not cheap. So if there are any common household chemicals like bleach or hydrogen peroxide I'd rather use those.

Thanks!


----------



## Discusluv

Desert Pupfish said:


> Thanks for sharing this link, Amy. Read through that thread you linked to, but it didn't say if the bleach dip kills snails too? I'm often sharing plants with people, and don't want to send them any snail hitchhikers if I can help it. I know potassium permanganate will kill snails, but I'd have to special order it, and it's likely not cheap. So if there are any common household chemicals like bleach or hydrogen peroxide I'd rather use those.
> 
> Thanks!


Good question: Im not sure on the snails. Maybe @PlantedRich would know and can help with that.


----------



## PlantedRich

Yes, bleach is one of those things that will kill even the larger hard shelled things. But that also comes with lots of caution as it can be a real bummer as well. First step is to understand what bleach, peroxide, and several others do and why. Many of those are in a group called "oxidizer" as they combine with other chemicals to form different compounds. In laundry, we like it because it combines with the grease in our collar and makes it white again but in storing it, we can get into trouble because it also combines with iron and makes iron oxide( rust!) . It really like to combine with anything organic and that includes snails but also fish gills! It is a fine line between killing snails and not killing plants as the plants tend to be soft and easy while the snails may simply slam the door and wait out the storm. I do not use it on fish because it is really harsh and there are most often other things that work safer. But if there are obvious snails and eggs on plants and I really don't want the snails, I do a really quick dip to kill the eggs and then often pick off any big enough to see. 
Before doing all my plants in a bleach soak, I would want to try it a few times on plants and try to work out a time and strength solution for killing the stuff I don't want and keeping what I do. Seems like there are lots of things that work fine in many cases but also have some cases where it jumps up and ruins us.


----------



## Desert Pupfish

PlantedRich said:


> Yes, bleach is one of those things that will kill even the larger hard shelled things. But that also comes with lots of caution as it can be a real bummer as well. First step is to understand what bleach, peroxide, and several others do and why. Many of those are in a group called "oxidizer" as they combine with other chemicals to form different compounds. In laundry, we like it because it combines with the grease in our collar and makes it white again but in storing it, we can get into trouble because it also combines with iron and makes iron oxide( rust!) . It really like to combine with anything organic and that includes snails but also fish gills! It is a fine line between killing snails and not killing plants as the plants tend to be soft and easy while the snails may simply slam the door and wait out the storm. I do not use it on fish because it is really harsh and there are most often other things that work safer. But if there are obvious snails and eggs on plants and I really don't want the snails, I do a really quick dip to kill the eggs and then often pick off any big enough to see.
> Before doing all my plants in a bleach soak, I would want to try it a few times on plants and try to work out a time and strength solution for killing the stuff I don't want and keeping what I do. Seems like there are lots of things that work fine in many cases but also have some cases where it jumps up and ruins us.


Thanks, Rich. Makes sense that an oxidizer like bleach or peroxide that can kill something as tough as snails could easily kill something as tender as a plant. Good advice to test it out to see how it works. Maybe try the Tide Pod Challenge while I'm at it? I once used a glut dip on some plants once to rid them of algae before sending them to someone, and it ended up killing all the snails--which that person actually wanted. 

That thread did have a post about alum killing snails as well. Guess I try can that out too to see if I can kill the snails w/o pickling my plants in the process. But it sounds like bleach would be the best all round disinfectant for ich, algae, and snails if you can get the proportion & length of exposure right. Guess I can experiment with all the hornwort I'm trying to get rid of....


----------



## Triport

How is this tank doing now?


----------



## Discusluv

@Triport 
It is finally settled, thank you for asking. That Ich outbreak was horrible. 

I really want to totally redo ( rescape) this tank but not sure yet what I want to do.


----------



## Grobbins48

Discusluv said:


> @Triport
> 
> I really want to totally redo ( rescape) this tank but not sure yet what I want to do.


Back to this, eh? HAHA! :laugh2::laugh2:


----------



## Greggz

I don't know if I would change too much.

It's got a great vibe and is very well done as is.

That being said, believe me I know the urge to change things up, and I look forward to seeing what comes next.


----------



## Discusluv

Grobbins48 said:


> Back to this, eh? HAHA! :laugh2::laugh2:


LOL-- I know, huh? Never satisfied. :laugh2:

Bump:


Greggz said:


> I don't know if I would change too much.
> 
> It's got a great vibe and is very well done as is.
> 
> That being said, believe me I know the urge to change things up, and I look forward to seeing what comes next.


 Thank you @Greggz. 
Ill see, so far I havent found that happy medium between the aesthetic and the fish in any other design Ive seen of tanks this size. 



So, ill probably keep saying I want to rescape and never do it... :laugh2:


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## Econde

Beautiful tank. It was fun to read through it all. Sorry for the outbreak and I'm glad you've conquered it.


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## Thelongsnail

I think I've said this before, but a tank like yours with stocking like yours has been my dream since the age of about 8.

So sorry to (belatedly) hear about your losses, but it's looking wonderful now.


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## Discusluv

Thanks all, it is a reminder that Ich will travel on plants. 
Id heard that but hadnt experienced it before, myself. I am now a believer!


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## fortyneck

Discusluv said:


> So far, so good- no deaths. But, three or four of the _alestopetrsius brichardi_ ( Congo tetras) are covered with Ich from top to tail. Of all the fish, these are the most affected. Of course my most expensive tetras.
> 
> I am seeing some red as well on various fish where the parasite has introduced bacteria where they are feeding. Debating on adding kanamycin to mix to stop that bacteria from spreading.
> 
> Will also lower temp 2 degrees ( Its setting at 80 degrees right now, the normal temp for this tank) to slow down bacterial spread. Yes, I know, they often say to raise temperature for Ich to hasten life-cycle but this does not provide the whole story. Sure, the parasite may complete its cycle earlier, but bacteria will do its job much more effectively as well at a higher temperature. The fish now not only having to deal with a parasite, but a quickly spreading bacterial infection. Many times it is not the parasite that feeds on the fish that kills it, but the secondary bacterial infection.
> 
> Today's plan:
> Re-dosed the Paraguard this morning.
> Water change later with gravel vac and will then add back Paraguard took out through water change. Also, will evaluate after water change if kanamycin is needed. First cup of coffee hasn't done its job yet- only one eye open.


Sorry to hear about the outbreak. I've dealt with Ich in the past with the raising the temperature trick which has worked for me. At the time I had a posse of glass cats that I was afraid would be poisoned by treating the tank too aggressively. Always a white knuckle ordeal, happy your on the other side.


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## Discusluv

Some pics this evening:


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## OVT

What a variety of healthy fish! Glad you keep on tanking, despite some bumps in the road.
After so many years we think we got it down when something else sneaks in around the blind corner. As frustrating it is at times, we persevere, still learn, and keep enjoying the hobby.


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## Discusluv

OVT said:


> What a variety of healthy fish! Glad you keep on tanking, despite some bumps in the road.
> After so many years we think we got it down when something else sneaks in around the blind corner. As frustrating it is at times, we persevere, still learn, and keep enjoying the hobby.


 Thank you . They are doing great now, but man, that was a tough one to go through. It caught me so off guard, you are exactly right.


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## DoubleB

Absolutely gorgeous tank. Your original scape was 100% bang on perfect. Cheers on the vision, and rescaping is 1/2 the fun!

Hang in there with the algae outbreak.


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## Discusluv

DoubleB said:


> Absolutely gorgeous tank. Your original scape was 100% bang on perfect. Cheers on the vision, and rescaping is 1/2 the fun!
> 
> Hang in there with the algae outbreak.


Thank you!


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## Discusluv

A long time coming update on this tank:
This tank looks very sad. The fish dont seem to mind , but!----
I am finally feeling the desire to start making my tanks look pretty again after a year and a half of neglect. I mean I changed water on schedule like I do- but most of the plants are on life-support. Need to start fertilizing and tending to them. (Thanks for reminding me this is a pleasant hobby again my Planted Tank friend (you know who you are. You set the seed and its grown in the last few weeks. )
Joe ( the plant guru) has lots of plants for sell so Ill update with my haul once get planted and looks have way decent again.


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## Grobbins48

Good to hear from you, and I do know how you feel. I have let my tanks go into autopilot the past few months, just have not have the spark to be super into the plants right now. Same thing, fish are doing wonderful.

Excited to see what you do with being reinvigorated! I always enjoy reading about your tanks and the fish you keep!

Sent from my SM-G986U1 using Tapatalk


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## Discusluv

Grobbins48 said:


> Good to hear from you, and I do know how you feel. I have let my tanks go into autopilot the past few months, just have not have the spark to be super into the plants right now. Same thing, fish are doing wonderful.
> 
> Excited to see what you do with being reinvigorated! I always enjoy reading about your tanks and the fish you keep!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G986U1 using Tapatalk


Thank you  
My plan is to get the tank presentable again. Where I can actually start sharing it again without being embarrassed. It will come no where near the beautiful tank you have! 
Your tank is stunning!


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## Discusluv

Plants I have coming from Joe to follow...
Most will go in this tank, some will go in my 5 other tanks. Took down 1 -30 gallon tank and a 10 gallon last month. I was having difficulty keeping up with them.
So, now, instead of having 295 gallons in my living room, dining room, and kitchen- I have 255. LOL. Not much of a scale-back 
5 x C spiralis tiger
7 x Hygro 53B
5 x Myrio roraima
1 x H trip japan gb -
3 x L rubin -
1 x Nymphoides -


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## Discusluv

It’s been about a year and a half since I updated this thread. Like many times in my lifetime of having fish, I lost interest in my tanks for awhile. My fish suffered.

But, I recently updated my tank. (Nothing fancy) and am starting to feel the old pull of interest come back again.I have some new fish coming to add to the older stock that survived my neglect. Many were 8-10 years old as well- just died from age.
Anyhow, this is what’s coming from Tangled up in Cichlids:

3 - WC Geophagus neambi “Rio Tocatins 
3 - WC Hypselecara coryphaenoides 'Rio Preto Da Eva' 
3 - WC Tetragonopterus argenteus 'Rio Tocantins

I’ll get some pics of tank later today, and of fish when receive.


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## minorhero

Discusluv said:


> It’s been about a year and a half since I updated this thread. Like many times in my lifetime of having fish, I lost interest in my tanks for awhile. My fish suffered.
> 
> But, I recently updated my tank. (Nothing fancy) and am starting to feel the old pull of interest come back again.I have some new fish coming to add to the older stock that survived my neglect. Many were 8-10 years old as well- just died from age.
> Anyhow, this is what’s coming from Tangled up in Cichlids:
> 
> 3 - WC Geophagus neambi “Rio Tocatins
> 3 - WC Hypselecara coryphaenoides 'Rio Preto Da Eva'
> 3 - WC Tetragonopterus argenteus 'Rio Tocantins
> 
> I’ll get some pics of tank later today, and of fish when receive.


Glad to see you back!

Burnout is a real thing we all experience sooner or later. I always find that new fish/animals brings back my interest. Rescaping every few months doesn't hurt either


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## Discusluv

minorhero said:


> Glad to see you back!
> 
> Burnout is a real thing we all experience sooner or later. I always find that new fish/animals brings back my interest. Rescaping every few months doesn't hurt either


Happy to see a familiar name. 😊 
Yes, no matter what I still have the tanks going- but they were definitely not a priority. New fish will help. 🤣


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## burr740

Been through a few "phases" myself. Glad to see you back around!


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## Discusluv

burr740 said:


> Been through a few "phases" myself. Glad to see you back around!


Thank you! Happy to see you still here 😊


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## Discusluv

At the last minute I added on to my order : 
4 Aequidens superomaculatus 'Rio Atabapo' 
1/2 dozen wild , Mikrogeophagus ramirezi, to start breeding again. These will all go in a 30 gallon until so notice a pair.
Fish coming on Tuesday! 
Here is a photo of aequidens:


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## Discusluv

The fish came. They are beautiful — but, unfortunately one of the chocolate cichlids was DOA, one severly stressed, and the 3rd very healthy. Took a quick video of tank and fish. This is a couple hours after I received them so full color hasn’t settled in yet.


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## somewhatshocked

Discusluv said:


> The fish came. They are beautiful — but, unfortunately one of the chocolate cichlids was DOA, one severly stressed, and the 3rd very healthy. Took a quick video of tank and fish. This is a couple hours after I received them so full color hasn’t settled in yet.


They look great.

How old are they?


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## Discusluv

somewhatshocked said:


> They look great.
> 
> How old are they?


These are all wild fish so I’m not exactly sure how old they are. But, I do know that none of the ones ordered are adults because they have more growing to do to reach adult size. 
fortunately the other chocolate cichlids was just stressed- he is eating and waving his tail at me in front of the tank when hungry. It’s a very endearing fish!

I forgot to add- I do have some lone ( or few) fish left from my old group. Some of the tetras, corydoras, Geophagus, plecos. These fish are 8-9 years old. Also, an Altum Angel. I think it’s about 5 years old.


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## Triport

Discusluv said:


> Like many times in my lifetime of having fish, I lost interest in my tanks for awhile. My fish suffered.


Nice to see people admit to this. Has happened to me many times over the years and the past three years I kind of let things go. Mentioned my struggle on my Youtube channel when discussing my African tank and of course got criticism in the comments.


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## Discusluv

Triport said:


> Nice to see people admit to this. Has happened to me many times over the years and the past three years I kind of let things go. Mentioned my struggle on my Youtube channel when discussing my African tank and of course got criticism in the comments.


Yeah, well, the complainers are most likely not lifers like us. ( Good to see you here @Triport )
The last few years were especially difficult for me. I can forgive myself that my mind wandered a bit.


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