# Water wisteria dosn't grow



## Plantmytank (Dec 11, 2013)

Hi!
I'm a 30 years old beginner))
I've purchased water wisteria from petsmart about 1-1,5 month ago and it stays about the same size as it was when I brought it home. I have a 10g fresh water, 13watt compact fluorescent bulb 6500K, regular gravel, temperature 74F. Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0, PH 7.2, Nitrate 30. Fertilizer Aqueon plant food 10ml/week after WC. 

P.S.don't be scary of my English, this is my 3rd language.))


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## Carlin (Sep 9, 2013)

You need CO2 or Seachem Excel or API CO2 Booster


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## kcoscia (Jul 24, 2013)

Mine doesn't grow as fast as everyone else says it does either, but excel really boosted it for me. I would suggest that as well. 
Does the fert. you use have macros (NPK)?


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## Zapins (Jan 7, 2006)

Are you using a spiral 13w bulb or a straight bulb? The spiral ones put out less light. You may not have enough light on the tank.


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## Plantmytank (Dec 11, 2013)

Zapins said:


> Are you using a spiral 13w bulb or a straight bulb? The spiral ones put out less light. You may not have enough light on the tank.


it is spiral. Didn't even think about that!


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## Plantmytank (Dec 11, 2013)

Carlin said:


> You need CO2 or Seachem Excel or API CO2 Booster


I did use CO2 but it changed nothing but PH.


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## Zapins (Jan 7, 2006)

Yep, sounds like a lack of lighting.

You probably have just enough light for the plant to break even but not grow. Try adding more lighting and you should see a boost in growth.


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## Plantmytank (Dec 11, 2013)

Zapins said:


> Yep, sounds like a lack of lighting.
> 
> You probably have just enough light for the plant to break even but not grow. Try adding more lighting and you should see a boost in growth.


How long it takes to see the difference?


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## Zapins (Jan 7, 2006)

If you added more light you'd see a difference within a week or two at the most, but more likely within a week since the plants don't look like they have been damaged by a lack of light.

I would show you some graphs and links that better explain this phenomenon but frustratingly APC's forum site seems to be down for the moment and I have all my charts stored over there.


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## Plantmytank (Dec 11, 2013)

Zapins said:


> If you added more light you'd see a difference within a week or two at the most, but more likely within a week since the plants don't look like they have been damaged by a lack of light.
> 
> I would show you some graphs and links that better explain this phenomenon but frustratingly APC's forum site seems to be down for the moment and I have all my charts stored over there.


Thank you. Will wait.


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Philips-...4-Pack-E-ES5M8234RS50K/202913023#.UqkbmCfEf84
http://www.lowes.com/pd_302257-3-26..._product_qty_sales_dollar|1&page=1&facetInfo=
http://www.lowes.com/pd_57889-75774..._product_qty_sales_dollar|1&page=1&facetInfo=
Forget the term they use but it looks as if it's not in it's underwater leaf phase as if it never was in the water but still growing
on top of it. The way it was grown no doubt but should have transitioned as it started growing. So no growth indicated sounds
like what you have. Those all are more Watts.
Now it should start growing/w that higher light but Wisteria needs more than normal ferts also. If not you will get holes in the
leaves. Regardless of what they say Aqueon has no Macro ferts. I got Potassium Nitrate and Potassium Phosphate from e-bay
in quantities smaller than one pound so I can add them to the Flourish Comprehensive that I use. I also dose 1 ml of Excel every
day. I use 1ml of Flourish Comprehensive + 5ml of Tetra Pride +1/4 teaspoon of Potassium Nitrate + 1/32nd teaspoon of
Potassium /Phosphate after my weekly water change. This gives me a reduced amount dose of Micro/Macro ferts + Excel which
I only need to use once a week except for the Excel which is every day. This amount is for my ten G tank(s) and it's why I
added it to this answer. Either you don't do a weekly water change or it's not enough of a percent for your nitrates to be that high.


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## anastasisariel (Oct 4, 2009)

Please don't tell this man he needs CO2 to grow Wisteria!!!!!

Its your light, sir. Your Nitrates alone could feed that weed.. you just don't have enough light. In fact, after 2 months if you had enough light and it STILL didn't grow it would be covered with algea.. but THAT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN WITH WISTERIA


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## kcoscia (Jul 24, 2013)

I'm not saying you need it. I'm just saying it helped mine and I was in a similar area to you. I'm also upgrading my lights too so I'm sure I'll see some changes. 

Sent from my VS840 4G using Tapatalk


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## Plantmytank (Dec 11, 2013)

ok. I put 23 watt compact fluorescent bulb 6500k. Will wait for a week and see what happens. Thanks to all for quick replies.


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## FISHYANDY (Jul 5, 2013)

Float it for a week or two then replant most time this plant is grown above the water and will have broad leaves like your in picture .after a while it will drop it leaves and re grow thinner one this is a floating plant really grows a lot better good for fry tank or shrimp


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## Zapins (Jan 7, 2006)

There we go, APC is back up again.

This diagram shows the light compensation point with photosynthesis (energy production) and respiration (energy use). Where the two first cross you have the light compensation point, this is where the light is barely enough to feed the current living tissue but leaves no extra for new growth. As the light increases the plant is able to make more sugars and grow, any less and the plant will deteriorate slowly and eventually die.

The graph also shows the temperature compensation point on the right side. This goes along with the idea that for every 10 degrees C metabolism doubles, so you need 2x more energy to run the plant cells. At a cetain temperature your plant's metabolism requires more energy than can be made and any increase in temperature after this point will result in slow deterioration and death. 










For more info look at my original post and explanation here: http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...plants-discussions/81065-heat.html#post609991


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## Plantmytank (Dec 11, 2013)

Ok, my Water Westeria still doesn't grow and black patches appeared on its leaves . My Marimo moss ball, Java Fern and Anubias Nana doing just well.
What the heck than wants my westeria?


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## Zapins (Jan 7, 2006)

Did you add more light? How much more?

Can you post another picture of the plant the way it looks now?


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

After you answer if you added any more light and give new pictures...I have a personal opinion about this that is based on my experience/w Wisteria in my tank that I think may apply to this problem.
Mainly it is that you bought a plant that had been grown above the water and had never been under water perhaps till it
was in the shop where you bought it. It did not have time to acclimate to the tank in that store and then it was pulled out 
of there and put in your tank. It received a double shock if you would want to call it that.
In most cases I would not say "It would never work like that" as in "it won't grow without Excel" or "it won't grow without
more light" but this plant has been greatly shocked IMO and it may not live at all or may mostly die off except for a
small percent of it before it starts growing back. And no I would not say "you can't get them to grow without fert tabs"
but in this case if there was a decent amount of roots on it when you bought it, root tabs would help it a lot.
But use only as directed. I think you should pull it out and get another one that has the normal underwater leaves on it to try.
I will add more to this when I return...going to appointment now.


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## Plantmytank (Dec 11, 2013)

Lighting 2.3 Watt/gal
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 20
PH 7.2


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## Zorfox (Jun 24, 2012)

I have a ten gallon shrimp tank with two 13watt 6500K CFLs about 5 inches from the surface. It seems just the right amount of light for this tank. Low light plants and shrimp. The few I do have pearl in the miday but no algae. I dose VERY minimally. Seems about right for this setup. So one 13watt? Nope. Listen to Zapin.


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## Plantmytank (Dec 11, 2013)

I have 2.3 watt/gal


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## Plantmytank (Dec 11, 2013)

2.3 watt/gal


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## Zapins (Jan 7, 2006)

The watts per gallon rule breaks down with small tanks. If it was true then you'd need a 1 watt light bulb over a 1 gallon tank to have low light, which doesn't make sense because that is tiny.

Bulb type also makes a difference. 23 watts of T5 HO light would give you enough light for your tank, 23 watts of straight T8 would as well, but 23 watts of incandescent bulbs wouldn't. 

That said, I think Raymond has a point. The plants look like they are in emersed form, and deterioration in older leaves is common when the plant transitions. It might be partially due to that.

If your other plants are doing alright then perhaps lighting isn't to blame. But 13w of spiral CF is extremely low for a 10g.


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

Lots of people use that bulb to grow plants. The only time(mostly) that you need more is if the tank is longer like a 20 long type
tank or much taller like a 55 gallon tank.
Like I said before, that plant would benefit from root tabs. It is very immature but if you look at the top 2 leaves, they are beginning 
to show the change from the above water type leaf to the under water type. The leaves/w the edges that look like a saw blade.
There are two of them at the top. One of them has the top of it facing you and the other has the edge pointed at you.
This plant is beginning to make the change to an underwater plant. The round leaves will die and fall off. Later after the top gets
more aria to take in light, the plant will start sending out new growth from around the bottom.
This plant uses lots of Potassium. That is not supplied by your fert that you are using. Watch the bottom leaves and before they
fall off you will see holes start to form in them...because the plant does not have enough Potassium.
I threw away the one in my tank for not wanting it to rob the other plants of what they need. That IS a stemmed plant but it
gets a good large amount of roots. Stemmed plants usually have them but depend mostly on the ferts in the water for what
they need. So the root tabs are not necessary, but very helpful/w that plant because it uses so much ferts.
The other reason I got rid of it is because it gets very big. So unless you intend to get a different kind of ferts which are much
better, you will always have trouble/w that plant. It will be very hard to keep holes from being in it.
Look at a couple of pictures of them to see the type of leaves it has when mature and underwater. The parts you see coming from 
the bottom will not happen till the top has a few leaves shaped like those with the rough edges. Then it will start to send out
shoots from around the bottom. When purchased young like the one you have it takes a couple of months for it to change to
the adult form and show lots of growth. It will be slow till then.


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## Plantmytank (Dec 11, 2013)

Zapins said:


> But 13w of spiral CF is extremely low for a 10g.


I put 23 CF about the same time I have tarted this thread.


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## Plantmytank (Dec 11, 2013)

Raymond S., would you recommend to trim off the bottom leafs or should I leave it as it is and just wait?


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

The plant is using some of the nutrients from those leaves. I'd trim them after they turn yellow and curl up.


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## anastasisariel (Oct 4, 2009)

Plantmytank said:


> Raymond S., would you recommend to trim off the bottom leafs or should I leave it as it is and just wait?


I would hold off on trimming leaves until you see new leaves growing steadily. I really think that once you buy decent lighting for the tank your confidence will skyrocket. That being said I know very little concerning using CF bulbs.. I think I tried i a long time ago and the results were similiar to yours. I hated spending the money, but once I had some decent light I was an addict. Now I have LED lights and a couple T5 fixtures and I just can't imagine using else. There are others that have made all sorts of things work but I just dont' have the patience for that anymore.


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