# My craigs list 125g natural planted tank



## James From Cali

Looks good. What plants you got? And is it Schultz aquatic soil?


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## erthlng

James,

It's actually 3 layers of soil.
1. 1-2" of Scotts topsoil. 
2. .5 to .75" of aquariumplants.com generic aquarium substrate
3. .5 to .75" Loews playsand

I've found it's important to precompact the Scotts, before topping with the aquarium substrate and sand. Also, wash the sand to eliminate the smaller dust particles.

For this tank I grew HC and dwarf hairgrass emersed for about 90 days before adding water to the tank. I also added fungi and mulm to the substrate. The HC is starting to elongate, but I was expecting that to happen. I've had good luck with these plants in natural "low tech" nano tanks, but this is the first time I've attempted something on this scale with these foreground plants.

So far no major algae bloom and the plants seem to be doing well. 

I'll put together a more detailed list of plants in the next few days and include some detail photos.


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## James From Cali

Interesting, I did not have much luck with either HC or DH. I'd be interested to see how it goes.


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## erthlng

Here are some close-up shots of the HC mixed with DH.



















If this works, I attribute it to having substantial emersed growth before adding water.


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## erthlng

Update on my 125g Natural.

Here is a shot at night by LED "Moonlight".








Overall I'm seeing good growth. Also added an inline heater to stabalize temps between day and night.


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## fshfanatic

Nice work!


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## Fat Man

What are you using for water movement?


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## gonzo.pete

Wow-nice looking tank considering the low-tech nature.
How do you keep it so algae free without co2?


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## erthlng

Fat man,

I've got an Eheim Pro II with a drilled intake and outlet on opposite sides of the tank about 3 inches down from the surface. The Eheim moves about 300 gallons an hour. I supplement that with a small 75 gph circulation pump that is at the same level as the intake and the outflow from the filter. The affect is that if you were looking down at the top of the tank you would notice a nice counter clockwise flow within the tank.

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gonzo.pete,

It's not entirely algae free. I've got a small outbreak of bba that I'm working on with water changes, floating plants, Siamese Algae Eaters, fancy guppies (yes, they seem to eat bba) and I'm using a hypo to dose small amounts of Excel directly onto the affected areas. I've pretty much got it in check at this point and I'm not seeing any new bba.

A huge huge help to keeping the algae down has been the floating plants.









I'm using Salvinia and Red Root floaters. The tank also has about 20 - 30 cherry shrimp , 4 different types of snails (many), 5 SAE's, an insane pack of 4 Coreys and about 30 fancy guppies (more seem to be arriving every week).


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## lauraleellbp

Looks Awesome!:fish: 

So nice to see such lush growth in a low tech tank :thumbsup: 

The Red root floater is looking beautiful- I hope mine does 1/2 as good a job as yours seems to be.


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## erthlng

LauraLee,

Thank you. It's a work in progress.

I'm enjoying the continuous balancing act that seems to take place between lighting and water and temp and fish and plants. Getting it stable, growing and mostly algae free would be fantastic. I hope I'm close to that. 

What I've got so far would not have been possible without all the information I've been able to gather from this forum.


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## erthlng

So I get back from a 3 day trip and while I was away my son and wife were taking care of the 125g. I could not believe how fast the Salvinia and the Red Root floaters had grown. It now completely covers the top of the tank. I've got almost 3 wpg of light going now and it's barely getting through the floaters. The bba I mentioned before is almost gone. The tank looks great






























Anyone want some extremely healthy Salvinia? drop me a pm. I've got to thin the surface out a bit


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## mizu-chan

This is really great. Especially since it's low tech. 
Beautiful!


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## erthlng

mizu-chan,

Thanks! I'm enjoying it a great deal. We started calling it "The pond". the problem is I've got in in my office and I work from home. I'll start watching the fish and the shrimp and the plants and time just seems to fly by. I've got to put my back to the tank to get any work done


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## connordude27

you plan on thinning the red root things and the other floaters?


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## erthlng

connordude27,

They grow a bit slower, but I'll probably have to thin out the red root floaters (RRF) in another week or two. The Salvinia grows very quickly. I thinned it out today to make more room for the RRF to grow.


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## seAdams

I absolutely love your tank! It really looks like a dark, serene pond bottom!

About the salvina: Do you have little surface agitation? My petstore threw in a few of those plants in the bag with some fish I bought. I was happy at first, but they ended up stuck to the filter intake.


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## erthlng

seAdams,

There is a good flow of water just below the surface and because I have so many young fish and shrimp, I've been keeping a thin sponge filter over the intake as well. I've also got a small circulation pump running. Every few days I remove the sponge filter and flush it out.

If the Salvinia is clogging your intake, is it possible for you to lower it another inch or two? My intake is about 3 inches from the surface and I have no problem with any of the floaters clogging the intake, unless its a rotting piece below the surface.


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## erthlng

One of the shut off pvc ball valves on my 125 spontaneously split in half today. It's been in use for over a month without a problem, then for some reason it just cracks in half. I must have found it just as it happened. 

We lowered the water level below the intake that had the valve on it with a quick family bucket brigade. Got another valve at Lowes and was up and running in a few hours. Only lost maybe a 1/2 gallon onto the floor. I was extremely lucky that I was in the room when it happened and heard the water dripping.

Here is how I have it attached to the back of the tank:








The one on the other side is the valve that actually broke. this is just to show how I have it hooked up.


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## lauraleellbp

Wow, that really could have been a disaster, good thing for sure that you were home! :icon_eek: 

seAdams, I had the same problem with Salvinia in my tank, and it was from the downward flow from my AquaClear. Nothing I tried worked (playing with water levels, height of my intake, an extra-large sponge over the intak...) I ended up having to pull most of it.  Tried Red root floater and unfortunately the same thing happened. I'm having better luck with Hydrocoytle, though.


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## nikonD70s

awesome tank!! whats the length,width and height of your tank?


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## erthlng

nikonD70s,

Thanks, the dimensions are about..

18.5" wide
22.5" deep
72" long


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## monkeyruler90

great tank, i love the floaters.


man, i wish i could get my hairgrass to grow like that. it looks great


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## erthlng

monkeyruler90,

I think the trick with hairgrass in a low tech tank is to grow it emersed allowing it to build up good density and root structure, then fill the tank, or transplant the emersed growth from a container, including the soil around it, into your tank (could get messy).

Has anyone tried using something like cheesecloth to form a rootball for transplanting aquarium plants that have been grown emersed with a soil substrate? I suspect that if you could transplant the roots and the surrounding soil (containing beneficial bacteria, fungi etc.) to aquatic growth it might make the transition for the plant easier. Note that I've done the emersed growth then flooding the tank, but I've never tried transplanting into a flooded tank with a soil substrate rootball. Has anyone done this?


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## seAdams

> I had the same problem with Salvinia in my tank, and it was from the downward flow from my AquaClear. Nothing I tried worked (playing with water levels, height of my intake, an extra-large sponge over the intak...) I ended up having to pull most of it.


Yes, that's it. I have modified the outflow on this tank with a sponge, since my rainbows dislike a strong flow, but still the salvina ended up under it, then got pushed down to the intake which is only about 3" above the substrate.

I'd love to have some of those red rooted floaters and I know my fish would love them too.


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## erthlng

seAdams,

So as the water cascades out of your filter, it creates a downward flow that sucks down the floaters....what if you raised the water level so that there was no downward drop and the water flow was horizontal rather than vertical as it came out of the filter?


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## seAdams

The water in the tank is already full. I think part of the problem is that I had only one tiny sprig of salvinia. I think a bunch would be okay but my lfs doesn't sell it.

I wish I could ask you to send me some of yours, but I doubt it would make it over the border alive.


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## erthlng

What would probably work is a big piece of red root floater. I've got some growing that is about 4-5 inches long and keeps putting out new branches. It's all one piece and has been growing fast.









So this is one plant. I usually break off the stems into smaller pieces, but in your case you could just let it keep growing as one big piece of Red Root Floater.


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## lauraleellbp

I think that would work, too. I think that's why the Hydrocoytle in my tank is working; it's all one big piece.

I do have a different species of Salvinia that was a "hitchhiker" from an LFS that has much larger leaves, and that one is also managing to keep to the surface. I haven't looked it up, but I think it's a different species from the first kind I had.


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## Green Leaf Aquariums

This has to be the coolest El Natural I have ever seen. Its very well done.


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## erthlng

Some more night shots. The hair grass meadow and the driftwood mountain peak are featured by LED "Moonlight"


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## erthlng

The floaters on the top of the tank are growing so rapidly. They filter the light from the 3wpg fixture and give it a slight yellowish tinge. When the top of the tank is full of Salvinia, Red Root Floaters and Duckweed, the light getting through to the submerged plants is probably equivalent to about 1.5 wpg. So I'm going to try something a bit different.










To allow more light through, I cut up some small squares of bubblewrap and floated them on the surface. Each square creates a small skylight that pushes the floaters out of the way and allows more light through to the bottom. It also allows a higher K (temperature) light through, so it's much less yellow and more toward the blue end of the spectrum.

I'll test is out and see what happens.

The angle in this photo makes them appear to really stand out, but when you are looking at the tank from a normal viewing angle, you don't really notice them and the light in the tank looks so much better. I might also try them in a circular form as well. It might be a bit more aesthetically "organic" looking and blend in better.

The floaters are great. The roots seem to act as a mechanical filter as well as pulling excess nutrients out of the water and the fish love them. My challenge is to keep the tank well lit and still allow the floaters to flourish without taking over the entire tank.


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## nanojimbo

great idea with the bubble wrap - plus then you don't have to take away any of your floating plants that are helping to keep your tank healthy!


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## erthlng

So I played with the idea of the floating skylights a bit more and went for the circular pattern. Here is what it looks like. 










I think it's going to work out rather well. The round pattern is a much better fit than the square ones. I'm getting much more light into the tank now.


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## mizu-chan

Really nice idea with the skylight.
Great tank.


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## erthlng

mizu-chan,

Thank you. 

My only concern is will I get an algae build-up on the bottom of the skylights?

Right now, I really don't see them when I look into the front of the tank. Even looking down from the top, they really are not that bad looking. they blend in fairly well. They definitely do wonders for the lighting if you have alot of floaters.


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## mizu-chan

Like I said before this tank is inspiring to me 
Awhile back you said you had baggies of floaters and at the time I didn't have any money left, but I'm depositing some tomorrow and was wondering if you had any left? PM me if you do. Thanks and keep up the AMAZING tank.


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## erthlng

I've got lots. Here is the problem. I shipped a big baggie full to Illinois on Monday and I heard back from the buyer yesterday. She said that almost all of the plants ended up getting cooked by the heat. I'm going to eventually ship her another batch, but the weather here on the east coast has been really hot and we may run into the same problem again.

Another order last week went through without a problem. The buyer mentioned they arrived in great condition.

So you've got a 50/50 chance based on these two  I think I package them well. But if they sit in a mail truck on a hot day for a long period, they are going to cook.

PM me if you want me to give it a try.


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## mybrotherdarrell

What does 'natural' mean? 

I'm sorry if this is common knowledge or has already been answered...Just curious.


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## mizu-chan

You got PM.


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## CL

thats awesome. very nifty idea with the sky lights


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## erthlng

mybrotherdarrell,

The "El Natural" tank for me is soil topped with sand or gravel ( I use sand & aquariumplants.com generic substrate over soil), sunlight and/or artificial light at under 3 watts per gallon, no fertilizers, or CO2 injection. It's a balancing act between the plants, fish/inverts, mulm, water, light and substrate. Too much or too little of each of these and you might end up with an algae farm. Again, this is my interpretation of a natural planted tank. Other folks have different ideas about what an "El Natural" should be. There is no exact answer to your question.

Get a copy of Diana Walstad's book "Ecology of the Planted Aquarium". There is some interesting info here and there are a number of threads on this forum that discuss how to setup and run a natural tank as well. Also checkout Tom Barr's site. He's got some ideas on this topic as well: http://www.barrreport.com/
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clwatkins10

Thanks, it seems to be working. I'll know a bit more in a week or two about how the tank responds to the skylights and if they continue to work or become algae discs 
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mizu-chan

Sending you a response now...


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## mizu-chan

Your hair grass looks so nice. How did you do it?!


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## erthlng

I started it emersed before putting water into the tank. If you can do this, I would highly recommend it.


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## mizu-chan

erthlng said:


> I started it emersed before putting water into the tank. If you can do this, I would highly recommend it.


Eh, I already planted it ):
Darn. Will keep this in mind for next time though.


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## akamasha

Just amazing . Everything about the way it looks is perfect. I would love to have a tank that big to stare at all day and night. Great job


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## mybrotherdarrell

erthlng said:


> mybrotherdarrell,
> 
> The "El Natural" tank for me is soil topped with sand or gravel ( I use sand & aquariumplants.com generic substrate over soil), sunlight and/or artificial light at under 3 watts per gallon, no fertilizers, or CO2 injection. It's a balancing act between the plants, fish/inverts, mulm, water, light and substrate. Too much or too little of each of these and you might end up with an algae farm. Again, this is my interpretation of a natural planted tank. Other folks have different ideas about what an "El Natural" should be. There is no exact answer to your question.
> 
> Get a copy of Diana Walstad's book "Ecology of the Planted Aquarium". There is some interesting info here and there are a number of threads on this forum that discuss how to setup and run a natural tank as well. Also checkout Tom Barr's site. He's got some ideas on this topic as well: http://www.barrreport.com/



Thanks! That's very interesting. It seems like what I'm trying to do - so I'll be scouring those links.

And a double congrats on your tank, this seems like no mean feat. 

Your tank is very beautiful!


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## erthlng

*Update on tank*

you may have noticed in some of the old images that the water was getting a yellow tinge from the tannins. I bought a 250ml bottle of Purigen and put it into a filter bag and inserted it into my canister filter. WOW! that stuff is great. Combined with the floating skyliights the colors of the fish and the plants just pop now.



















If the photo does not appear above, you can see it here . So if your tank gets a bit yellow, drop some Purigen into your canister filter, it's amazing stuff.


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## mizu-chan

Great looking tank as usual. :thumbsup:


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## CL

wow, your tank is looking great. Its different in a good way. nice stems and moss. I like how the hairgrass is filling in.


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## youareafever

ur tank is nice!

sorry if this has been answered or pointed out already but how do you keep the floaters from blocking light?


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## erthlng

youareforever,

I took a sheet of bubble wrap and cut it into 7 discs, using a DVD as a template. I then floated these skylight disks on the surface of the tank. The skylights keep the floaters back and let the light in. When the floaters get too dense, I just thin them out. If you navigate back into this thread, you can see examples.


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## erthlng

So I got 6 dwarf crayfish from milalic

These are really fascinating little creatures. They are much more responsive than my cherry shrimp, to things happening around them. I dropped an algae wafer into the tank and one of them got into a tug of war with my pack of corries.










very very fun to watch. They almost seem to have personalities.


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## mizu-chan

Looks like he's ready to go all out for that wafer! Cute little guy. Do your fish bother him at all? He seems pretty small. 
Great addition for your tank though.


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## erthlng

mizu-chan said:


> Looks like he's ready to go all out for that wafer! Cute little guy. Do your fish bother him at all? He seems pretty small.
> Great addition for your tank though.


They leave him alone. He's one of the larger crays. There are a total of 6.


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## erthlng

Update on the skylights...

It's been just over a month since I put them in place. It appears that the bubbles in the bubble wrap can't take the intense light very well. They pop causing the edges to sink down allowing the floaters to close in. So if you try using this technique, you'll probably have to swap out new bubble wrap skylights every month or two. 

I think the concept is sound and the plants have responded well to the added light so I'm going to continue to use them. Perhaps there are other floating transparent materials that will hold up better. If you have some ideas, let me know, but for now, I'll just swap in new bubble wrap when the old ones wear out.


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## StevenLeeds

I had the same problem with floaters. I took airline tubing and made rings. I used silicone to keep the ends together and sealed. Works really good.


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## lauraleellbp

StevenLeeds said:


> I had the same problem with floaters. I took airline tubing and made rings. I used silicone to keep the ends together and sealed. Works really good.


I really like that idea. Sounds like they would let light through better and last longer than bubble wrap, too. :biggrin:


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## CL

lauraleellbp said:


> I really like that idea. Sounds like they would let light through better and last longer than bubble wrap, too. :biggrin:


Not to mention let in more light


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## erthlng

The air hose, mini hula hoops is a very neat idea. Another suggestion I got from the DIY forum on this board was to use petri dishes. I took a look around online and can get 20 5" dishes with lids for about $20. Crystal clear and they float

With the air hose circles, I can see the floaters possible pushing under the hose, which would not be a problem with the petri dishes. But with the petri dishes I'm reducing the amount of water surface area that comes into contact with the air, although this has not been a problem with the bubble wrap.

So which or these two ideas do you like best?


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## CL

I would do the airhose. Join the ends together with hose connector barb thingies. I just tried it with duckweed, and It works great. It also gives the fish some room to eat.


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## tlef316

wow. amazing tank.


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## oblongshrimp

the nice thing about using airline tubing is there is nothing in the center to grow algae on. As the ring grows algae it will just blend in better with the floaters.


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## bsmith

What happens when you want to re arrange things? I havealways wondered this about natural soil aquariums. Seems to me it would be worse then my ADA AS that had turned to much. Whenever my Plect moves his tail a bunch of silt covers EVERYTHING, very annoying.


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## CL

oblongshrimp said:


> the nice thing about using airline tubing is there is nothing in the center to grow algae on. As the ring grows algae it will just blend in better with the floaters.


Thats true as well. It never occurred to me. I would definitely use the airline tubing idea.


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## erthlng

bsmith782 said:


> What happens when you want to re arrange things? I havealways wondered this about natural soil aquariums. Seems to me it would be worse then my ADA AS that had turned to much. Whenever my Plect moves his tail a bunch of silt covers EVERYTHING, very annoying.


The soil substrate is below sand or gravel, so it does not get stired up by the fish (in my tank). When I move plants around, I pull them slowly. The result is a minimal amount of soil getting mixed up in the water and whatever does get stirred up quickly settles or is filtered out,


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## Tex Gal

I'll be interested in how the air tubing works out for you. You can get tubing connectors in the stores for pretty cheap or just use a stick or something like that to make the circle. My floaters tend to want to clump in one area where i really want the light. If I could keep the floaters inside the circles in a stationary place if would be easier to thin them out and also control where I wanted more light. Very interesting......


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## erthlng

It did not work out so well. I've got so much growth that it took maybe2-3 days before the rings started to get filled with salvinia and duck weed. At this point I'm just scooping out handfulls every few days. I'm going to try the petri dishes next.


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## mujacko2002

@erthlng
Whoa! true to its call it really is an "El Natural" tank. I love your red floaters and all DIYs you've done. KUDOS! 



> Note that I've done the emersed growth then flooding the tank, but I've never tried transplanting into a flooded tank with a soil substrate rootball. Has anyone done this?


---Yes, my 75g aquarium-pond, i tried growing the plants in pots and plastic cups submersed. I am using mineralized soil topped with river-sand as substrate. I can't believe how fast the plants roots using the said substrates. When i relocated them into their almost permanent spot in the aquarium i included everything including the soil in the pot. Since the plants have roots already i guess they didnt have a hard-time acclimating in their new spot. 
*http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/52271-newbie-philippines.html

OT
*My next project will be a 75g using only mineralized soil My new set of mineralized soil is already brewing. *Note: * i guess the more the soil is submersed (more than a month) and exposed to the elements the better the consistency re: more adhered to each other so to speak.

thanks for sharing

Godbless


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## holdingwine

Amazing tank. So how has the HC been holding up? I always wanted to try it in a "Natural" based setup but figured the intensity of light it required would be too much and offset the balance of nutrients (leading to algae :frown. Again, great tank.


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## ArizonaFishGuy

As far as the skylights, i was thinking something like a Styrofoam circle might work. Or at least something similar.:fish:


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## bluegill

Whatever you do, do not "release" the salvinia into nearby ponds/lakes. Down here in Texas that stuff is totally overtaking lakes and reservoirs. It will block off all light from penetrating below the water surface. Fish die-offs are a result. 

Nice tank though.


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## matt1045

Looks awesome. I only hope my tank will look so well.


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## lauraleellbp

Any update? It's been a while...


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## ucdchan

Nice Tank. I am trying to do something like this myself. I bought a 6ft 125g from craigslist and building my own stand for it. The lighting is the hard part for me as I'm not sure if I can make it look nice. It's hard to find a 72" lighting hood for a decent price... I did saw this one on ebay for $300: http://cgi.ebay.com/72-Aquarium-Lig...ryZ46314QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I will probably be hanging my hood on the ceiling.. since my tank is acrylic and I don't want the leave the light too close to the top.

I found some 48" T8 6500k 32watt lights at home depot for really cheap.. So I was thinking about getting those for a DIY hood. Not sure how I can arrange it though...


PS. I'm doing a natural tank as well.


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## CL

updates please


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## [email protected]

Where do you get hair grass? I'd love to have some of this in my tank.


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