# Aqua soil or shrimp stratum?



## plamski (Sep 25, 2009)

For CRS ADA. Best quality in general. Hold PH longer.PH will be 5.5-6.2
For tigers I'll pick Azoo Plant Grower Bed Substrate It will keep PH in 6.5.looks very nice
They have black and brown. For blue tiger I'm using brown substrate. For Red and TT –black.
FSS is the last in my list. I'm sorry but they have to fix their quality control first.


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## Lexinverts (Jan 17, 2012)

SupaTank said:


> I was gonna go with ada, but my local fish store just got some fluval shrimp stratum. I was wondering if anyone can shine some light on ada aqua soil vs fluval shrimp stratum; which is better for HQ shrimp (crs,oebt,etc..?)
> 
> Please be specific which ADA aqua soil you used(new amazonia, malaya, etc..)? What's beneficial/wrong with it or if you can do it again, would you go with something completely different. thks, this will help me save a few buck and narrow down my decision.


I prefer ADA New Amazonia. I tried Fluval Shrimp Stratum in a tank right next to an Amazonia tank with similar water parameters, and I had poor survival of babies in the FSS tank relative to the Amazonia tank. I have stuck with Amazonia since them. I know some people have had success with FSS, but that was not my experience. I can say that all of the breeders I know with high grade CRS or Taiwan Bees use Amazonia.


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## Lexinverts (Jan 17, 2012)

plamski said:


> For CRS ADA. Best quality in general. Hold PH longer.PH will be 5.5-6.2
> For tigers I'll pick Azoo Plant Grower Bed Substrate It will keep PH in 6.5.looks very nice
> They have black and brown. For blue tiger I'm using brown substrate. For Red and TT –black.
> FSS is the last in my list. I'm sorry but they have to fix their quality control first.


Does the Azoo soil leach any Ammonia?


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## acitydweller (Dec 28, 2011)

You know that baby survival as more to do with supplementing the tank with enzymes, bacteria, aeration and not solely reliant on the substrate alone... Aquasoil has one up over FSS for shrimp in that its full of nutrients whereas FSS is just an medium grade cec equivalent substrate devout of anything beneficial for plants or shrimp. One of the good things about FSS is that you can use it almost immediately to setup a shrimp tank as it does not leech ammonia as As would. but that's about it...

for cost and sake of time, i would use FSS.

If i had time and cost were no object, i'd get AS and wait a full 8-10 weeks for a proper cycle after adding Penac P, Penac W, Clear water, Tourmaline BC, and bacter 100...

that's likely $30 bucks versus $250


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## Lexinverts (Jan 17, 2012)

acitydweller said:


> You know that baby survival as more to do with supplementing the tank with enzymes, and not solely reliant on the substrate alone...


You mean supplementing with micro-organism powder food, like Ebibacter?

Sure, but, as I said in the above post, I treated each tank the same. I had higher survival in the Amazonia tank, and the only difference in the treatment was the substrate.


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## acitydweller (Dec 28, 2011)

um there's a whole lot more to increasing baby survival rate than simply dashing ebi bacter in a tank... 

If it were that straight forward, it would be raining CRS' and they would be worth $1 each these days...


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## Lexinverts (Jan 17, 2012)

acitydweller said:


> um there's a whole lot more to increasing baby survival rate than simply dashing ebi bacter in a tank...
> 
> If it were that straight forward, it would be raining CRS' and they would be worth $1 each these days...


Really? Umm.....

It's funny then that I have 100s, and 100s, of CRS, CBS, and Taiwan babies and adults, and all I do is feed a balanced diet, including pollem foods with various microrganism powders. EBI, Shirakuri, Borneo Wild, etc... 

Unless those aforementioned powder foods contain enzymes, I haven't added any enzyme supplements to any of my tanks, and I have fantastic survival rates.

Again, what I said in my first post is that I treated two tanks the same, and the only difference was the type of substrate I used.

By the way, if everyone used enzyme supplements in their shrimp-keeping, it would not be "raining CRS."


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## acitydweller (Dec 28, 2011)

Bear in mind, this thread is more for the OP and less about our own personal successes...


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## ThatGuyWithTheFish (Apr 29, 2012)

AS for crystals and FSS for tigers.


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## Lexinverts (Jan 17, 2012)

acitydweller said:


> Bear in mind, this thread is more for the OP and less about our own personal successes...


Of course. Let's get back to what you posted.



acitydweller said:


> You know that baby survival as more to do with supplementing the tank with enzymes, and not solely reliant on the substrate alone...


You are suggesting here that dosing enzymes is more important than the choice of substrate. 

Now, I can tell you from my (successful) experience that this claim is far-fetched, to say the least.


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## Puddles (Jan 5, 2013)

Acitydweller have you used fss with Crs or tbs successfully?


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## peter_l (Aug 3, 2008)

FWIW, I am using Fluval Shrimp Stratum in my 3 gal. cherry shrimp tank. That tank is producing at least 500 shrimp every 3 or 4 months.

I used to keep cherries and tigers in a larger tank with EcoComplete. That tank was producing at least a thousand of each over the course of a year.

As far as food goes, they are fed a mix of flake, pellet, and fresh (peas, zucchini, cuke, lettuce...)

Hope that helps.

peter


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## AquaPipes (Jun 4, 2012)

Fluval Shrimp Startum is all over the board when it comes to buffering capability. The stuff I purchased buffered to 7.2~7.4ph. Too high for CRS, but fine for cherries. I've seen others report buffering to 6.5 with it. Just depends on the batch you get I guess.

For CRS and Taiwan Bee's, use AquaSoil. It buffers a long time, and is consistent. But if cherry shrimp, Fluval is fine.


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## Bananariot (Feb 28, 2012)

FSS is inconsistent with buffering capacity and lifespan.
ADA Amazonia, you know what you are getting, buffering consistency and a longer lifespan.


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## plamski (Sep 25, 2009)

Azoo leach very small amount of Ammonia and it is gone after 2-3 50-70% WC.3 weeks max.


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## Puddles (Jan 5, 2013)

plamski said:


> Azoo leach very small amount of Ammonia and it is gone after 2-3 50-70% WC.3 weeks max.


What does Azoo buffer to? Think I read 6.8 but not sure.


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## Bananariot (Feb 28, 2012)

PuddlesAqua said:


> What does Azoo buffer to? Think I read 6.8 but not sure.


6.5 pH for me
It also never leeched ammonia for me.


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

Well OP doesn't mention price, then I would go for Fluval stratum. It really come down where you get your shrimp from. My CRS breeds in amtank with Eco-complete 7.0 ph with no problem. Babies are surviving as well. Remember animal has the ability to adapt to their environment, that's where people missed the most. Remember when Taiwan bees need low ph to breed? Now they do fine in 6.4ph.


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

sayurasem said:


> Well OP doesn't mention price, then I would go for Fluval stratum. It really come down where you get your shrimp from. My CRS breeds in amtank with Eco-complete 7.0 ph with no problem. Babies are surviving as well. Remember animal has the ability to adapt to their environment, that's where people missed the most. Remember when Taiwan bees need low ph to breed? Now they do fine in 6.4ph.


I'm doing SSS in fluorite, RO water, no buffering, 7.0pH too and the babies are rocking out. Is that way for everyone? No. Can it be done. Sure.


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## Zenzu (Mar 23, 2012)

People saying FSS is cheaper your argument is invalid...

FSS 8.8 LB bag = $26 x2 = $52 and you're only getting 17.6 LBS

ADA Aquasoil 9L(20LB bag) = $40

It's clear that the FSS is not more cost effective nor is it a better substrate for plants or shrimp... The choice is clear, don't try to skimp out go with the standard ADA AS has proven results.


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## Puddles (Jan 5, 2013)

People continually compare fss and Amazonia on a pound to pound basis which doesn't make sense if you don't know the density of each. How many liters of material is each bag? Also fss is $20 per bag free shipping. I am using Amazonia but I am just curious about how fss would work out.


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

Zenzu said:


> People saying FSS is cheaper your argument is invalid...
> 
> FSS 8.8 LB bag = $26 x2 = $52 and you're only getting 17.6 LBS
> 
> ...


oh yeah I completely forgot Aquasoil is actually cheaper than FSS lol. (in my area at least,)

people that are far away from an aquasoil source will have to pay around 50 bucks for a bag.


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## Zenzu (Mar 23, 2012)

PuddlesAqua said:


> People continually compare fss and Amazonia on a pound to pound basis which doesn't make sense if you don't know the density of each. How many liters of material is each bag? Also fss is $20 per bag free shipping. I am using Amazonia but I am just curious about how fss would work out.


If you look at bag size it's pretty clear calculating by LB is almost spot on. If anything I wanna say FSS is denser because it seems like it breaks down less.


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## SupaTank (Oct 9, 2012)

Thks for all the input everyone! Wish my crs shrimp came from a Eco-complete source.


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## pandamonium (May 14, 2012)

I got FSS for free from a user on this forum and it is great for me. THe only bad thing is that it's really light so planting is harder in it. But in SF water, it is able to buffer the water slightly so it works just great for me.


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

SupaTank where are you located in cali? Join scape club, lots of members can help you and discount from local stores


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## Bananariot (Feb 28, 2012)

Zenzu said:


> People saying FSS is cheaper your argument is invalid...
> 
> FSS 8.8 LB bag = $26 x2 = $52 and you're only getting 17.6 LBS
> 
> ...


Agreed ADA AS has proven results compared to a more variable FSS. But a couple things to note:

1. Fer some odd reason amazon increased the prices and 2 bags of 4.4 is cheaper than 1 8.8. 
2. Amazon for me is cheaper with free 2 day shipping with prime. Shipping (UPS ground is $26) for ADA.
3. Like others have said density for the 2 soils are different so to calculate it by pounds is inaccurate at times.
4. If I remember correctly.....for a 9L bag of Africana.....it equals about 1.5 bags of 8.8 lb FSS.

Ultimately I believe if you want to factor in cost, it would have to be which is one is ultimately more available. 

DAT shipping $$$
(I was gonna post a UPS girl meme but I don't know the rules on amount of clothing in pictures.....)


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## SupaTank (Oct 9, 2012)

sayurasem said:


> SupaTank where are you located in cali? Join scape club, lots of members can help you and discount from local stores


I don't know if there's any hobbyist near me since I'm in central CA...


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## Zenzu (Mar 23, 2012)

SupaTank you'd be surprised by how many people around you keep planted aquariums. We have quite a few central cali members on Scape.


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

There are a few clubs that I know in Cali related to planted tank. I'm sure there are more. There are COAST & SCAPE in socal (LA - San Diego area), and SFBAAPS in northen cali (SF - Sacramento area).


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

Bananariot said:


> DAT shipping $$$
> (I was gonna post a UPS girl meme but I don't know the rules on amount of clothing in pictures.....)


I think the rules are relaxed a little, I keep seeing this ad on the website now:








I always thought this was a family message board, but now that banner is showing up on my computer and phone, haha.


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

did you click it? :bounce: lolololol


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## SupaTank (Oct 9, 2012)

Zenzu said:


> SupaTank you'd be surprised by how many people around you keep planted aquariums. We have quite a few central cali members on Scape.





sayurasem said:


> There are a few clubs that I know in Cali related to planted tank. I'm sure there are more. There are COAST & SCAPE in socal (LA - San Diego area), and SFBAAPS in northen cali (SF - Sacramento area).


I've looked around but found the closest one is in SF; which is 2 hrs away from were I live. If there's a club by the lodi - stockton - manteca area, please send me a link! I've been looking to join one for a long time!!


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## Smitty06 (Mar 25, 2012)

If you live around stockton then make the trip to JoJo's aquarium in Sacramento for the ADA Aquasoil. My mom and I always drive out to stockton to see her family so I know the drive is not that long.


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## SupaTank (Oct 9, 2012)

Smitty06 said:


> If you live around stockton then make the trip to JoJo's aquarium in Sacramento for the ADA Aquasoil. My mom and I always drive out to stockton to see her family so I know the drive is not that long.


They carry ada, for how much?


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

mordalphus said:


> I think the rules are relaxed a little, I keep seeing this ad on the website now:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's an issue for me.. I know for a fact there are 12 year olds on this site. Permission to use your picture?


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

Sure, I didn't click on it, but I assume it's for a dating website or lingerie or something


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

i like my fss it took my ph from 7-7.5 down to 5 when it was now. now that its breaking down after little over a year it is still around ph of 6-6.5 have not tested it in quite some time and i dont use ro water so im sure that has something to do with it. its not leaching anything else but is time to change it cause its getting pretty dusty.


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## Smitty06 (Mar 25, 2012)

At JOJO's the Aquasoil is $38 for the 9 liter bag, which is aroung 22lbs. If you want a tank, the 60P is $120 and the 45P is $89 I believe.


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

Smitty06 said:


> At JOJO's the Aquasoil is $38 for the 9 liter bag, which is aroung 22lbs. If you want a tank, the 60P is $120 and the 45P is $89 I believe.


my 9 liter bags were all 17 pounds exactly each


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## trueblu8 (Mar 3, 2012)

I've got fire reds and oebt's on eco complete. The fire reds are breeding like crazy but the oebt's not so much. I've seen berried oebt's before but never any babies. Could something be predating on the oebt babies? Or is it possible they just can't survive on the eco complete? I also have guppies and ottos in there. And here's a really far fetched idea. Could the fire reds be predating on the oebt babies?


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## trueblu8 (Mar 3, 2012)

plamski said:


> For CRS ADA. Best quality in general. Hold PH longer.PH will be 5.5-6.2
> For tigers I'll pick Azoo Plant Grower Bed Substrate It will keep PH in 6.5.looks very nice
> They have black and brown. For blue tiger I'm using brown substrate. For Red and TT –black.
> FSS is the last in my list. I'm sorry but they have to fix their quality control first.


I was actually thinking about completely redoing my 55 gallon. I'd have to take all the eco complete out and donate it to a buddy. I think someone mentioned here, the bad thing about using darker substrates with oebt is they seem to blend right in and you can't see them so well. I like your idea about using a lighter substrate to make them stand out. I was originally planning on using the malaya aqua soil. But now I think I may have to check out this azoo plant grower bed substrate in the brown color. Thanks for the tip.


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

If you go with Amazonia just be ready for the massive ammonia leeching until your tank is fully cycled. During the first week my ammonia was at 8ppm.


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## trueblu8 (Mar 3, 2012)

The azoo plant grower bed substrate in the brown color looks awesome but it's impossible to find. 

Nevermind. Just found it on eBay. But man it's expensive, 27 per 12 lb bag, and 17 for shipping on each bag.


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

mordalphus said:


> my 9 liter bags were all 17 pounds exactly each


Did you double check? I weight a 9L bag at a local shop and it weights 20lb, can anyone confirm? I'm going to start losing trust from this store lol


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

A quick internet search reveals several sources.

Marine Depot/PetStore.com is probably the cheapest option - especially when buying in bulk.



trueblu8 said:


> The azoo plant grower bed substrate in the brown color looks awesome but it's impossible to find.
> 
> Nevermind. Just found it on eBay. But man it's expensive, 27 per 12 lb bag, and 17 for shipping on each bag.


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## trueblu8 (Mar 3, 2012)

Awesome. Thanks. Are they basically the same store? I know they have different websites, but their prices and shipping are the same.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Yes, same company.


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

sayurasem said:


> Did you double check? I weight a 9L bag at a local shop and it weights 20lb, can anyone confirm? I'm going to start losing trust from this store lol


Send me a PM later and ill weigh one. I have 3 unopened 9 liter bags.


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## idex (Apr 15, 2010)

I can confirm that my bag was about 17 pounds as well.


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

Almost a month haven't check back this thread lol. Thanks for the confirmation guys.


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

Yeah, I forgot to post in here, I weighed my bags with a luggage scale and it weighed out 17 lbs exact.


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