# CPD breeding advise?



## MarineEdge (Jan 14, 2012)

i know nothing about CPD's but my platy recently had fry, and we just let it happen in the main tank, and after about days we netted what we could and caught a surprisingly large amount, considering she had only 12, 2 which were dead upon birth, we netted 8 of them and are currently in a 5g growout/breeder tank. all are doing fine. might be tougher with a 55g tho, and the number of other fish in there would make it tricky due to making the fry snacks lol. sorry if i wasnt much help, but wanted to contribute what little i had


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## MoeBetta (Feb 5, 2011)

A big bunch of java moss always worked best for me, but that was the only real thick cove I kept in that tank.

I would pull the moss and vacuum the area below it into a separate grow out tank. Shake the moss out and replace.

Worked really well.

The key is separating the eggs from the parents. If you see breeding behaviors, they're breeding.


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## garfieldnfish (Sep 25, 2010)

What Moe did is exactly what I did as as well. They would only breed over the java moss. The eggs are transparent and not very sticky. Most will fall off when you remove the moss so you have to vacuum the area under it and then add that and the moss to a hatching container. I just added it to a clear glass bowl with some tank water. They hatch within 3 to 5 days. Once they hatched I used a pipette to suck up the newly hatched fry and put them in a small established tank off their own to grow to about 1 cm at which point they were large enough to be returned to the parents tank. Your 2.5 gal will work well for that purpose. Use a mason jar for the hatching. You will need 2 clumps of java moss that you can alternate. I found that my CPDs only breed during the winter months. It gets too hot for them in Atlanta in the summer. But this past year they stopped. I sold off all the fry and only kept the adults and I am wondering if they only breed for 2 years or maybe something has changed in my tank. One of the changes is that all my java moss has died and I replaced it with suesswassertang. While I see breeding behaviour, I have not been able to collect any eggs this winter. The fry will eat powdered fry food or microworms right away and are easy to raise. I always keep the empty fish food containers and the fine powder at the bottom works excellent for fry food. This way they get a variety of stuff.


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## MoeBetta (Feb 5, 2011)

Also, I notice a hike in egg laying when given frozen bloodworms and the like.


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## akm (Jan 11, 2012)

Thank you! All of this is great advise. Since the tank is so big I think we will try to do the egg trap. We will have to sacrifice a couple of plants, but if we get these to a point of hatching it would be worth it! I will also put some java in a spot and vacuum under it, cross your fingers  Will keep everyone posted.


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## poppyseed (Feb 23, 2010)

interesting that this topic was posted today! I was just observing a couple of my CPDs circling each other and I was wondering if it was some sort of breeding dance. Is this what yours are doing?


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## akm (Jan 11, 2012)

Yes! First the males started chasing the females around really crazy like. Then they paired up, now the male keeps circling the female doing a weird twitching dance. We started looking up breeding because we saw some egg sacks. 
We thought we saw eggs, but they must be some other kind of egg because they are stuck to the side of the crypt stem, one single egg clear with a white dot. Some crypt stems have two or three eggs. Not sure what those are but after reading a bit realized that CPD eggs are not sticky. So we will see what they are, probably another kind of snail with our luck


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## garfieldnfish (Sep 25, 2010)

Clear with a white dot, do you have assassin snails in this tank?
And the circling thing is what they do. They seem to pair up from what I have seen. I always see one male and one female swimming together.
The eggs are totally transparent and considerably large for the size of fish they come from.


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## akm (Jan 11, 2012)

Yes, but we just put them in three days ago. Would they lay eggs that quickly?


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## garfieldnfish (Sep 25, 2010)

Very possible. The description fits.
Does the clear part look like a rectangle with a small white dot in the middle? A single egg.


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## mgamer20o0 (Mar 8, 2007)

you can spwan them with the parents in the tank but pulling the eggs/fry tends to be the best bet. i had them spawning with moss and a good floating plant with roots. they would lay the eggs in the moss but once they hatch they tend to stay near the surface. with the roots of the floating plants it helps keep them safe from the adults.


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## larcat (Jul 27, 2011)

Thanks for the clarification. The ones we were talking about were *definetly* assassin eggs according to this. First time we have had assassins.

That said, the CDPs are definitely doing amorous things...



garfieldnfish said:


> Very possible. The description fits.
> Does the clear part look like a rectangle with a small white dot in the middle? A single egg.


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## akm (Jan 11, 2012)

Ok So we made this DIY egg trap, any thoughts? Does this look right, like it might work?


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## MoeBetta (Feb 5, 2011)

It may, but I've honestly only had one or two eggs in a trap. When I switched to the method described above I was getting 20 or so each time.

Hopefully yours works out better.


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## akm (Jan 11, 2012)

I plan on trying both. We have quite a few spawning couples in the tank. I will let you know what works for us. I appreciate your advise!


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## MoeBetta (Feb 5, 2011)

I'd wager a fair amount that you'll have more fry than you know what to do with in no time.


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## akm (Jan 11, 2012)

So one o the male CPD's has decided to claim the egg catcher as his own. He is very territorial with it and will not let another male anywhere near it. Hopefully he will find a female and let her near. 
Does this sound like normal behavior?


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## larcat (Jul 27, 2011)

Just as an aside, I know everyone considers these fish great for nano tanks, but since we have consolidated ours out of 2 nano tanks into the 55, and added more, we are seeing much more interesting behaviors and the fish are generally less skittish.

Same applies to my Pygmy cories that I recently moved into the same 55 gallon from my 7.5


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## raven_wilde (Jul 12, 2006)

http://www.celestialpearldanio.com/

^great site for breeding information... especially the forums.


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## akm (Jan 11, 2012)

raven_wilde said:


> http://www.celestialpearldanio.com/
> 
> ^great site for breeding information... especially the forums.


Thank you I will check it out!


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## garfieldnfish (Sep 25, 2010)

I love the egg catcher. I have already cut out the inside of a tubberware container lid and only left the screw on part of the lid intact. I will use craft canvas for the mesh. Is that is what you used? Now if I could only find some decent java moss. I have just a small amount left in another tank and it is growing well in there. I am afraid if I move it it will die on me as the other moss did. But it may be worth the risk.


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## larcat (Jul 27, 2011)

She used nylon laundry bag screen. Cut the lid, and then sealed the laundry bag screen under the remainder of the lid, then trimmed the outside edge. We couldn't find the stiff plastic craft canvas at the hardware store nor at the local big box.



garfieldnfish said:


> I love the egg catcher. I have already cut out the inside of a tubberware container lid and only left the screw on part of the lid intact. I will use craft canvas for the mesh. Is that is what you used? Now if I could only find some decent java moss. I have just a small amount left in another tank and it is growing well in there. I am afraid if I move it it will die on me as the other moss did. But it may be worth the risk.


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## larcat (Jul 27, 2011)

I can't get a picture worth anything, but I'm counting 10 eggs in the trap 

Should we let them hatch in the main tank, or transfer them to the grow-out tank before they hatch?


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## MoeBetta (Feb 5, 2011)

Grow out before hatching. IMO

Congrats!


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## larcat (Jul 27, 2011)

Thanks! 

Anything special as far as acclimatizing them?



MoeBetta said:


> Grow out before hatching. IMO
> 
> Congrats!


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## MoeBetta (Feb 5, 2011)

Nah, I mean I'd just make sure parameters are close... That's all I ever did.

If they're drastically different you could acclimate them, but... IDK, my tanks were never really that different.


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## larcat (Jul 27, 2011)

Thanks for the help. Final question: The 2.5 which we are planning to move them to has, I believe, Daphnia living in it. Will that be a problem for the eggs/fry? After they are free swimming, I assume they will eat them. Planning on feeding powdered food to the fry, tiny amounts. Sound about right?

Definetly either Daphnia or Cyclops. Not sure which.



MoeBetta said:


> Nah, I mean I'd just make sure parameters are close... That's all I ever did.
> 
> If they're drastically different you could acclimate them, but... IDK, my tanks were never really that different.


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## akm (Jan 11, 2012)

garfieldnfish said:


> I love the egg catcher. I have already cut out the inside of a tubberware container lid and only left the screw on part of the lid intact. I will use craft canvas for the mesh. Is that is what you used? Now if I could only find some decent java moss. I have just a small amount left in another tank and it is growing well in there. I am afraid if I move it it will die on me as the other moss did. But it may be worth the risk.


Good Luck! How deep is the container you are using? I was trying to find a shallow container that would fit within the area that they are most active. Everything we found was fairly deep. Just curious... when making this I was envisioning a shallow square or rectangular contraption that would be less than an inch deep. Obviously not what we settled with  Any luck with eggs yet?


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## garfieldnfish (Sep 25, 2010)

Same like yours. The only shallow ones I could find on short notice where too large in floor space, so I settled for a taller one. I won't check for eggs for a few days. I plan on letting any eggs hatch in this container, before moving them. Once they hatch they will lay around the bottom for 1 to 2 days before they actively swim and take food, so I am waiting to see some hatched fry before I move the container. I might do that different later on though as I have black darter tetras in this tank and if the fry venture out of the container they are instant food. So I have to time this just right.
How did you get the container to sink? I had to add a few small rocks to the container, but that makes spotting the eggs harder.


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## gnod (Mar 24, 2011)

very interesting! are the eggs easily visible to the naked eye? i know it may be a lot to ask for a photo, but i'm just wondering what to look for at least from afar.


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## MoeBetta (Feb 5, 2011)

I always found a flashlight VERY useful when checking for eggs.


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## garfieldnfish (Sep 25, 2010)

My eyesight is not the best, but I have to use a magnifying glass. These eggs are large (about 1 mm) considering the size of the parents, but since they are entirely transparent I could not see them without a magnifying glass.


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## MoeBetta (Feb 5, 2011)

I just hit them with light from a different angle, it really does help them stand out, this is how I would count them.


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## akm (Jan 11, 2012)

MoeBetta said:


> I just hit them with light from a different angle, it really does help them stand out, this is how I would count them.


A flashlight was the only way we were able to see them as well. They are small! It helped to put them against a dark background. We collected them in a glass bowl which made it easy to hold it up to a dark background. Our substrate is small multi-colored gravel, almost large sand really. It would be impossible to see them without catching them first.


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## akm (Jan 11, 2012)

garfieldnfish said:


> Same like yours. The only shallow ones I could find on short notice where too large in floor space, so I settled for a taller one. I won't check for eggs for a few days. I plan on letting any eggs hatch in this container, before moving them. Once they hatch they will lay around the bottom for 1 to 2 days before they actively swim and take food, so I am waiting to see some hatched fry before I move the container. I might do that different later on though as I have black darter tetras in this tank and if the fry venture out of the container they are instant food. So I have to time this just right.
> How did you get the container to sink? I had to add a few small rocks to the container, but that makes spotting the eggs harder.


We used a glass pyrex bowl so it doesn't float. We took the bowl out, emptied it and put it back. We have a lot of snails so I was afraid they would get in and eat the eggs. We are hoping they will hatch and grow out in a 2.5 gallon tank we had set up for shrimp breeding. Honestly we didn't expect the egg trap to work...sl we will see it the eggs hatch


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## digitallinh (Jun 22, 2011)

Has anyone been able to successfully yield new CPD's without any intervention, I mean naturally in a community tank?

I just got about 10 a few days ago, and I'm hoping they'll find a way to procreate in my heavily planted tank.


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## akm (Jan 11, 2012)

We have more eggs, 15 or so...this group we are going to leave in the trap until they hatch then move to the grow out tank.


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## larcat (Jul 27, 2011)

Make the above 43 new eggs.... These are amorous little fish.

Saw at least one (edit three!) free-swimming fry in the grow out tank today  I shined a flash light on him though, and he did not like it. I'm hoping the stress didn't kill him 

Should we feed now? I have powerded spirulina.

The tank is full of java, and there are cyclops/daphnia all over. Do they need food?

Advice?

This is idiotically fun


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## CPD (Feb 7, 2012)

What are your tank parameters? I'm trying to breed mine and they aren't even showing signs of the no pants dance.


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## larcat (Jul 27, 2011)

I don't test for gh and all of that.

55 gallons, with 25 CPDs.
Heavily planted with crypts.
Fine gravel over MTS.

Ammonia/nitrite = 0.
Nitrate 0-10.
Temp -- varies between 72 and 78. Usually 74-76.

We top off through the week, and do ~25% water changes on the weekends.

Feed a variety of foods, frozen and dry.

Probably not too helpful, sorry 



CPD said:


> What are your tank parameters? I'm trying to breed mine and they aren't even showing signs of the no pants dance.


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## larcat (Jul 27, 2011)

Counted 7 fry last night, a couple trying to swim around in the water, definitely have fry from both batches of moving eggs over  Dumb luck that this is working so far!

Fed a little spirulina powder yesterday.


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## garfieldnfish (Sep 25, 2010)

The trap works. I collected 5 eggs from the trap today. I could not find any in the vacuumed water, but that is no surprise with 4 black darter tetras in the tank. They would eat any egg they find and they are good at hunting, even better than the eggs parents. That means they have been breeding all along. Time to set up a fry tank.


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## CPD (Feb 7, 2012)

larcat said:


> I don't test for gh and all of that.
> 
> 55 gallons, with 25 CPDs.
> Heavily planted with crypts.
> ...


No that's perfect. I have exactly the same parameters just 5 CPD's in a 10g so patience is the name of the game I guess


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## akm (Jan 11, 2012)

CPD said:


> No that's perfect. I have exactly the same parameters just 5 CPD's in a 10g so patience is the name of the game I guess


One thing we did to "help" them spawn was put cooler water in ~68 degrees when doing water changes. They had been spawning prior to the egg trap, but no fry.


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## larcat (Jul 27, 2011)

Couple updates:

We have been feeding a little spirulina powder daily, mostly to feed the preexistant critters in there. We had this tank fully cycled and sitting on a window sill for about 5 months or so, so there is all sorts of microfauna living in there. Only thing I have seen that could be an issue is planaria, but I have been pulling those when I see them, and there certainly isn't an infestation.

There are fry *everywhere* both stuck to the glass and free-swimming. Most we've counted at one time is 9, but we will regularly see none over the course of an evening, so I can only assume that there are more hiding in the java moss thickets.

I'm kind of excited!

When should we start feeding something more substantial than spirulina powder?


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## garfieldnfish (Sep 25, 2010)

Time to start using microworms. I feed mine microworms as soon as they are free swimming and the powder from empty fish food containers. They eat everything. 
I found one more egg in the trap yesterday, so they are spawning again daily but I will not harvest all the eggs as they don't ship well and my local club has plenty of them by now. My trap only covers a small area and most of the eggs land in the java moss above or in the area around the trap and the darters eat them as soon as they drop. But I would like to get a total of 10 fish to ensure I have these fish in the future. Does anyone know how long they live?


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## gnod (Mar 24, 2011)

awesome! congrats! photos pleaseee.

i was wondering, have you observed the actual mating? I know cpd's are known for their mating 'dance' but i also read that and this is from tfhmagazine's article on CPDs in general, "the actual spawning takes place when the male hovers over a clump of plants or a mop, with his body at a slight head-down angle to the bottom. I guess this is to display his red flash, though I have yet to see this particular part of the display. If the female is ready to spawn, she will swim over to him and initiate the spawning by what appears to be a headbutt to the area around his anal fin. They then dive into the spawning medium and quiver side by side, releasing the eggs and milt. The pair then breaks apart, the male and female each going separate ways. "

anything of that sort seen by you guys?


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