# LED Recommendation Appreciated



## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Starting w/ a "new kid on the block" fixture;
https://www.amazon.com/MICMOL-Aquar...6391&sr=8-20&keywords=led+freshwater+aquarium


> Planted LEDs
> 
> 84pcs White - CN 1
> 60pcs White - CN 2
> ...


Doesn't quite meet your "red" specification though.

BTW which 40??? (dimensions)


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## DMtankd (Dec 2, 2009)

Thank you jeffkrol. Sorry - 40 breeder - so 36 wide x 18 deep x 16 high. 

That looks like a nice light, but like you say the red seems weak - so much blue! I have my T5HO bulbs selected with a lot of red in that 640 - 670 range and want to be able to keep it that way. 

See that one has 2 UV bulbs - never know how to feel about that. Are UV lights good, bad, or indifferent (from a plant perspective) in a freshwater setup?


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## Mike16T (Jun 13, 2016)

https://sbreeflights.com/sbox-freshwater-plant-lights/34-sbox-pro-32-timer-fresh-water-plant.html


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

DMtankd said:


> Thank you jeffkrol. Sorry - 40 breeder - so 36 wide x 18 deep x 16 high.
> 
> That looks like a nice light, but like you say the red seems weak - so much blue! I have my T5HO bulbs selected with a lot of red in that 640 - 670 range and want to be able to keep it that way.
> 
> See that one has 2 UV bulbs - never know how to feel about that. Are UV lights good, bad, or indifferent (from a plant perspective) in a freshwater setup?



Personally, pretty indifferent to true UV or even "violet"...i.e 400-420-ish.
Violets do pump up CRI and add to PAR.
First thing is "IF" they actually mean UV not violet. I suspect more like 410-420nm than say 395.

Oh and Led's in those wavelength do have a higher failure rate.


Stepping up a bit.. 2 of these:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GH9HUQ0/ref=twister_B00HIE3M6U?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


Plenty of 660nm red but doesn't look red.. 

Probably one of the bests overall "pop" type combos though w/ a crisp white look.
you would need to sort of DIY control but it's not difficult.


KEEP in mind either of those above are less "wattage" than what you have.
LED's can make up ground delivery efficiency though..
2 Finnex is at best 2 tubes..


now for power your costs escalate:
https://sbreeflights.com/sbox-freshwater-plant-lights/41-sbox-pro-16-timer.html


As you are already aware of..


AI primes (x2) will give you about 2-3 tubes worth of light.
Reds come from, mostly the warm whites and overall k temp is around 5000k so a warmer look on full..
Adjustable though.
https://www.amazon.com/AquaIllumina...ocphy=9019192&hvtargid=pla-600263532415&psc=1
"Starts" at $410


to be honest, your parameters are a bit tough..
It's Chinese New Year holiday atm so some stocks are low..
BUT going way outside the box..
*DSunY Timer 6500K LED Aquarium Light Full Spectrum Freshwater Plants Fish Tank *



On the bay and $200...
Will get back to you on this one.
See DSunY will customize but I think its a bad time ATM..

DSunY customized.. i.e "fixed".. 
Note some "artistic license w/ the K temps but the estimate should be pretty good..
Ch4 is your sunrise/sunset channel
No "moon" channel. Ch 2 is a real pale blue so there is that.. 
Whites can be adjusted to taste.

This was done as is to be the easiest adjustment.
ONLY possible catch is if DSunY has a low voltage driver limit higher than the V(f) of ch4.
Reds have a low V(f) and putting too many on on channel can be problematic..










OH and most canned programs in the controller will probably be pretty funky.....

DOH!!!!! For a 20" panel x 2 is 40" ..
Need a smaller panel..

Well actually one bigger one..
75 cm = 29.5"
112 diodes vs 72
28 columns vs 18

Something like this.


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## DMtankd (Dec 2, 2009)

Hmmm, both the SBreef and the AI lights seem like they stack up OK against the Radion with a marginally better price point. AI light seems a bit more customizable. For the AI, I see there is the Prime HD version you list but they also have a freshwater version. The freshwater version claims a little less par at 24" (100 vs 86) but the red/blue balance looks a little more inline. Thoughts on the SBreef Extreme 32 freshwater vs AI Prime HD vs AI Prime Freshwater?


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

Get a couple Finnex Fugeray planted+

Its 7000K plus many Deep Red 660nm and it looks great. Its the only commercial fixture I know that has a significant representation at 660nm.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

DMtankd said:


> Hmmm, both the SBreef and the AI lights seem like they stack up OK against the Radion with a marginally better price point. AI light seems a bit more customizable. For the AI, I see there is the Prime HD version you list but they also have a freshwater version. The freshwater version claims a little less par at 24" (100 vs 86) but the red/blue balance looks a little more inline. Thoughts on the SBreef Extreme 32 freshwater vs AI Prime HD vs AI Prime Freshwater?



AI-Prime freshwater is "OK" but again need about 3. 2 would be close.
No 660nm red except what is in the warm whites and 1 "reg red"
SBReef extremes are bulk power and a bit err overpriced for Chinese rebrands (note their "factory" is holiday for Chinese New Year).
I'd favor the DSunY over it a bit esp. if customized..




ChrisX said:


> Get a couple Finnex Fugeray planted+
> 
> Its 7000K plus many Deep Red 660nm and it looks great. Its the only commercial fixture I know that has a significant representation at 660nm.



would take at least 3 to match their current light and would need to add a DIY like tc-420
current (assuming) 4x39 t5HO is the baseline..156W
Finnex 36" is 26.7W...
$356 and no dimming..


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

jeffkrol said:


> AI-Prime freshwater is "OK" but again need about 3. 2 would be close.
> No 660nm red except what is in the warm whites and 1 "reg red"
> SBReef extremes are bulk power and a bit err overpriced for Chinese rebrands (note their "factory" is holiday for Chinese New Year).
> I'd favor the DSunY over it a bit esp. if customized..
> ...


HUH? Two of those on a 40G would likely be 100+ PAR at substrate. They individually have more PAR than the 24/7 fixtures in the same length.

I'm just letting him know what I would do if I didn't want to DIY anything and has a color preference of 660n reds.

None of the "high PAR" mainstream bar fixtures have a good look. All of the beamswork 6500K-based lights have a bad look, imo. idk PAR of the Twinstars, but I think they only go to 90cm length.

The DA Fspec has a nice look but is low PAR. 

The Radions and puck/lensed systems have poor distribution and high price.

I think fluorescent tubes still have alot going for them. As of yet, there isn't a high-PAR, color adjustable light that spans the entire tank length. 

People either need to double/triple the low power fixtures, or buy multiple pucks.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

75cm = 30"..
DSunY has one..

NOTE though I am reserving any comments as to ease of acquiring or customization..
Or quality, though its currently upgraded from years ago...










alt link:
https://www.reef2reef.com/attachments/img_20160823_210947312_hdr-jpg.399674

NOT the 75cm panel.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/modified-dsuny-fixtures.266403/

OK I'll back off the "3" and switch to 2 Finnex's.. Still no control out of the box..

SEE the problem I have is 4 T5HO's should not be as low as they list as to PAR..
He's MAY be using at least one "red" bulb and it won't register on older normal PAR meters well..
Point is their "real" PAR may be much higher..well 110-140

Hmmm.. error would apply to the finnex as well.. OK ...2....
sorry, I sort of upped my mental conversion from like 2:1 t5:Led watts to much lower ratio.. My only "excuse".. 

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/10-lighting/772066-finnex-fugeray-planted-par.html


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## DMtankd (Dec 2, 2009)

jeffkrol said:


> SEE the problem I have is 4 T5HO's should not be as low as they list as to PAR..
> He's MAY be using at least one "red" bulb and it won't register on older normal PAR meters well..
> Point is their "real" PAR may be much higher..well 110-140


Sorry - I have the light ~3 feet off the sub to even out PAR distribution from the sub to the top of the tank. I also run a diffuser screen (mostly to cut down on eye strain in the room since the light sits up around eye level). I do have a couple red-heavy bulbs and the older apogee that falls off in that range, but I sort of accounted for it. I really do think my par is in the 70-90 range.

So Finnex wins on price and reds, but fails on control out of the box.

3x AI Freshwaters with mounts is $650 and would give better spread and maybe similar par to 2x Radions, for less money. I'd get 3 660nm red LEDs, but a great amount of control.

Typing this too, I realize that any solution where I don't raid the boys college funds will have me with the light much closer to the sub, yielding a steeper PAR gradient from top to bottom of tank...

Sigh. I think like jeff and chris are alluding too, there's just not a great (affordable) option in the space yet.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

DMtankd said:


> Considering replacing the current 4 bulb T5H0 lighting unit on my 40G high tech.


Just curious, why?? 

What do you hope to gain/improve??


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## DMtankd (Dec 2, 2009)

Greggz said:


> What do you hope to gain/improve??


Lol Greggz. Was asking myself the same thing as I typed that last response.

Purely from a plant/growth perspective, my immediate answer is: at best...nothing.

I'd like to have the control that LEDs allow for my own aesthetic. I think it would be relaxing to sit back with a beer and watch the "sun set" on the tank - going all dusky red and then tapering off. Pragmatically, can't tell you how many times I've been elbow-deep with some trimming or other with the lights off in the room only to lose track of time and have the lights in the tank snap off and leave me in total darkness. I guess also probably less stressful for the fauna to ramp up and down.

As a stretch, assuming I could get all the full spectrum'y goodness out of an LED setup as a T5, I do think it would be fun to tweak the morning/evening spectrum and see if I can observe the plants opening up faster, pearling sooner, etc. Truly at the edges of useful growth potential most likely, but something fun to consider.

And, if I'm being honest, as a far distant motivator - I have a 5 year old. If Dad makes the fish tank go disco at the next grubby-fingered get together it might awe them in to looking instead of touching. Getting real tired of cleaning Cheeto's streaks off the glass.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

https://www.aquariumcoop.com/products/fluval-plant-3-0-led-light?variant=7437902413854

https://www.amazon.com/Finnex-Plant...F8&qid=1549596548&sr=8-4&keywords=finnex+24/7


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## AguaScape (Oct 28, 2018)

DMtankd said:


> Lol Greggz. Was asking myself the same thing as I typed that last response.
> 
> Purely from a plant/growth perspective, my immediate answer is: at best...nothing.
> 
> ...


LMAO! Cheetos streaks are a very real problem. Not just Cheetos but playdough, paints, and crayons. My 4 year old daughter gets to hand feed the fish as long as she does not mark up the glass with handprints and other things. That is the rules, but.... Results vary because I enjoy watching her hand feed more than I enjoy it myself. Yeah I am a softie.


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## pauld738 (Jan 4, 2019)

> https://www.amazon.com/Finnex-Plant...F8&qid=1549596548&sr=8-4&keywords=finnex+24/7


Like the light output of the Planted+ but the 24/7 mode is a bit wonky. Although you can change light color/intensities, you are stuck with the pre-programmed timings. I wanted the light all the way off at night and in order to do that you need to have a timer turn it off. Could never get that to work properly. It's now just on the timer. Your mileage may vary.


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