# Hello everybody! My 20L plans...



## Al Slick (Jan 22, 2012)

I'll be building the light fixture for this tank today! Will post pics of the work as I get it done. Hopefully I can get a finished shot with lights on on the tank.


----------



## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

I think you are planning on too many fish for that size tank. And, using two different substrate materials is ok only if you want them to mix. Trying to keep them in separate areas means lots of work for you, if it is even possible, other than for short times. I suggest looking at some of the very simple aquascapes, that use mostly carpet plants, a few rocks, and nothing else. That will at least save some tank volume for the fish. A 12" high, 12" deep tank doesn't have a lot of excess volume.


----------



## Al Slick (Jan 22, 2012)

Thanks for the reply! The corydora species I am looking for does not grow more than 2" max and it is important to me to provide them with enough of their own kind to encourage their schooling behavior. I did say 6-10 of each species but i am interested to know what you feel is more appropriate? i was under the impression that the wide footprint of the tank would allow for a greater capacity of fish than a 20gallon high tank.

I am actually going to mix these two substrate materials so I will be happy with the gradual mixing that regular tank behavior and maintenance will create.

Thank you for the planting suggestion! I know very little about planted tanks but I am very fond of the thick carpeting look of some tanks that i have seen.


I am waiting for the glue to dry on my light fixture I have been building this morning but here are some pictures of the progress:

Here's a quick drawing I did with the only requirement being that it spanned the inner rim of the tank.









I then transferred my lengths onto a piece of maple plywood that was 7.5" wide.









I made all the cuts on my dad's table saw, mocked up, glued, nailed, and clamped! This lumber was pretty squrrely so hopefully it sits level.









Here is a pic of the orientation of the lighting. I plan on using no reflectors at this point to keep the levels lower while I learn to balance light and fertilizers.









Here's a close up of the inf onfo on the ballast that I am using to fire these bulbs. If I remember correctly believe that I am over driving a couple of 24w bulbs.









Finally here is a pic of lights on, obviously not quite this bright in person, I have no exposure control atm.









Thanks for looking and answering the multitude of questions from my op!


----------



## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

i think hoppy's commen about stocking is well made... although i believe if you do plan to overstock adequate filtration will be a necessity, perhaps an external canister.

my 20L is overstocked 185% its size, i keep about 60 critters in there including inverts. but my tank is heavily planted and a 2217 runs the show. my fish are happy.

although be prepared for territorial disputes especially if they start spawning (ie my GBR's got to aggressive and resulted in a atality during spawning) ...nature just takes place.

i happy for your desicion to start a tank in college, i'm sure you'll find the thing that keeps you going is waking up to your tank and taking care of it. for someone like myself with the stress (good stress of course lol) if marriage work family etc, i find it is a source of peace and meditation that helps me make giod desicions in life.

good luck and feel free to pm with any questions (although i'm sure you known more than me lol). i do trims almost weekly and ROAK my plants to hobbyists like urself 


Sent from my iPhone


----------



## Al Slick (Jan 22, 2012)

Ha I kinda thought that my AC50 was over filtering! Shows what I know  So please do you have any specific reccomendations for stocking numbers? (Keeping in mind schooling behaviors?) 

and fisherman I know exactly what you mean by a source of peace and meditation! I set up this litle 2.5 and simply watching the wisteria in the current and watching my little guppy eat and forage has been very reaxing for me. The feeling really pushed me to set up another tank that I can get serious about. just read your entire thread and I must say I am VERY impressed. I had been thinking that I could create great drama in the aquascaping by only using two species of plants and suggesting the natural battle between them of surviving in natural waters, but the variety of heights, colors, shapes, and textures in your tank is really stunning!

I do not know what species would fit into my little Madeira biotope so if you had any specific suggestions of maybe one type of thick growing stem plant and a smaller showier plant I would be very grateful! I'm really unsure of where to even find this information as well. Thanks!


----------



## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

well unfortunately your talking to a guy who thinks the world is ending and must collect every specimen of aquarium plant and animal on the planet to prevent its extinction!! lol

typically i would shove anything green leafy rooty with a rhizome into the dirt... but i think it depends on how much maintenance you want to deal with. i mean you can go along way with a low- med tech planted tank.

i'm only dosing excel and dry ferts and i find myself trimming every 7-10 days ontop of weekly water changes. that unto itself is alot of work but can also be rewarding. everybody is different, some people plant and forget some people are constantly rescaping, some people go minimal and just grow one species, but grow it very very well.... it all depends on you.

personally i find that as much as i love stems, many if them grow like weeds. as a beginner i was totally psyched i could get a weed to grow... but eventually hacking rotalas in half every week (as pretty as they are) gets old. 

for instance this past ROAK i thinned out about 26 stems stems or
more. only about 8 stems are left in my tank to date. i've since removed hygro polysperma, chainawords and other fast growers for the same reason, too muh maintenance. especially for an exel only tank. i can only imagine what kind of growth i would get when i start juicing co2!

the good thng about my 20L is its
manageable in size. you can get as tedious and meticulous as you want or not, still manageable either way. downside is also its upside... its 12" in height. stems can reach the top in no time, can't really keep tall large plants like spiralis, vals, swords etc.. yet its easy to plunge your hand in for maintenance and its easy to achieve a high light condition in a shallow tank (cheaper lighting).

so i guess what i'm saying is for plants.... go for the noah's arc and edit as necessary. better to start heavily planted than not. it takes less planning and instant gratification because you get a plant you like and pluck it in immediately.

fir fish however, i think you need to be more conciensous. not all species will do well in a small tank. especially if you plan to overstock. i would give aqadvisor.com a shot to help you figure out some possible combos. 

remember imagine them as adults in your tank, not the cute little baby sizes you see them in the LFS. everyone loves corys for instance and i shoved them in my nano not knowing any better. they quickly outgrew my nano and it wasn't pretty. you know they were restless tothe point that they almost jumped out of the tank. i have since moved them to my 30B and now i have cory fry lol.

since your in college its definetely something to think about. if your fish decide to breed lol.

i guess i talked your ear off enough... i have a plant and fish list in my journal thread if you want a reference point. feel free to pm me as well if you want, i'm just a beginner but i can share mu experiences and what i've learned 





Sent from my iPhone


----------



## Al Slick (Jan 22, 2012)

Hey there!

I really appreciate your time and your feedback! Don't worry because there are too many cool things in the world for it to end this soon 

Thanks for the site reference, this is what it told me:

Recommended temperature range: 75.2 - 80.6 F. [Display in Celsius] Recommended pH range: 5.5 - 7.5. Recommended hardness range: 1 - 15 dH.

You have plenty of aquarium filtration capacity.

Your aquarium filtration capacity for above selected species is 274%. Recommended water change schedule: 19% per week. Your aquarium stocking level is 55%.

That was six of each. That does give me some confidence, however I heed your warning. Whatever I do I always take stocking very slowly and will never let my fish live uncomfortably!

I want to answer the test of your post as soon as I get some time.

Thanks!


----------



## kuni (May 7, 2010)

_from here:
"Corydoras bilineatus_ was collected in Bolivia, Departmento Santa Cruz, Cochabamba and Beni, system of the upper Rio Marmoré. 14°-18°S and 62°-68°W at an elevation of 161-327 m above sea level. The typus locality was a large standing pool in October 2001 with dense floating plant cover of _Pistia_ _stratiotes_, _Eichhornia_, and _Salvinia_. The roots of _Pistia_ serve as substrate for egg laying. _C. bilineatus_ from the typus locality live in relatively cold-water temperatures of only 18-22 °C (64-72 °F). In contrast, specimens from the Northeastern low lands (Trinidad) live in temperatures that about 3° C/F higher. The pH ranges from 6.04-8.40 with 20-1000 mS depending on locality. _C. bilineatus_ occurs in rather large groups that contain hundreds of individuals."

If you want to simulate this habitat, you'll have to forgo your original plant choices in favor of floating plants, but it will be a very easy tank to maintain and the dense floating plants will help remove nitrates from the water.

I would recommend a substrate of fine sand, a few rocks and nice pieces of driftwood, fallen leaves if you want them (but not tons). and a dense canopy of floating plants. Eichornia and Pistia get too big for a 20L, so I'd go with Salvinia natans.


----------



## Al Slick (Jan 22, 2012)

thefisherman said:


> typically i would shove anything green leafy rooty with a rhizome into the dirt... but i think it depends on how much maintenance you want to deal with. i mean you can go along way with a low- med tech planted tank.
> 
> i'm only dosing excel and dry ferts and i find myself trimming every 7-10 days ontop of weekly water changes. that unto itself is alot of work but can also be rewarding. everybody is different, some people plant and forget some people are constantly rescaping, some people go minimal and just grow one species, but grow it very very well.... it all depends on you.
> 
> ...


After reading through your thread I was very tempted to just forget about my (loose) biotope goals and obtain a huge variety of plants! I can see why maintaining several different species would be fun, but for now I really want to stay committed to my fish for as long as I can resist all of the plants. I want this tank to be natural and comfortable for them and I don't want to overgrow their house! I am glad to see how successful you've been by simply dosing excel although I am tempted to get a small canister and generate my own co2 gas.

I actually do have hopes that I may be able to breed both the corys and the tetras eventually, plus it will give me another reason to start a new tank! I felt pretty comfortable about my stocking plans until the aquaclear filter arrived in the mail today and let me tell you it is so much smaller than I thought it would be. This thing is tiny and I'm not used to having such a small filter on a tank!! It's rated for a 50gallon tank and the flow rate is 10x turnover per hour but still...

Thanks for your help so far !



kuni said:


> _
> 
> If you want to simulate this habitat, you'll have to forgo your original plant choices in favor of floating plants, but it will be a very easy tank to maintain and the dense floating plants will help remove nitrates from the fish.
> 
> ...


_

Wow thanks for finding that information! Salvinia Natans is beautiful and would look really neat floating on the tank with the roots hanging down, I'm sure the fish would appreciate it too. I want to do more research on their natural environments as I'm sure they don't only live in small ponds like the ones collected in the article you linked to. Perhaps I can find them somewhere with some more beautiful plants that will root in my substrate!


Well the components of my tank are quickly coming together. The 100 watt hydor Theo heater came along with the aquaclear 50 HOB. I got a 50pound bag of pool filter sand from a local pool supply place, a small rickety table from goodwill, and managed to set it all up with water! I've got one 15 pound of flourite ordered that I'm going to mix with the sand. Anyhow, here are some pics! Sorry that they suck and are from my phone, as soon as I have livestock to photograph I'll do a better job!

I got this table for less than $8 at goodwill. It was very rickety but I took it all apart and reassembled it with better hardware and wood glue, adding supports into the design. Now it is absolutely solid, I danced around on it just to make sure and I weigh a good 170.









I then took it outside and refinished the entire thing in plastidip, waterproofing the entire table in a coat of rubber and helping it match the color of the rest of our furniture.









I hung a power strip as well as a digital light timer on the back of the stand to keep all of the cords out of view and just when I finished setting up the tank, sand, lights etc. the UPS guy walked in and delivered my filter and heater. I hooked them up and before I tidied up the cords I snapped this pic of lights on. The background is krylon fusion black and blue that I did this morning.









Lastly I filled the tank with water, placing a plate on the sand to help keep it all in place. Even after spending thirty minutes rinsing the sand outside today I still get this cloud!









Well my roommates and I are excited to see it lit up and in its place in the living room. I hope that being next to a cold window doesn't present a problem but it's the only place it could go!

I am running the filter and heater to help dial in the temperature and make sure that everything is working. I am going to place some detritus from my 2.5 into this tank to hopefully help seed it, in a few days Ill add some plants after I test the water. Then over the next couple weeks I'm going to try to stabilize the ph using some peat in the filter to see if I can get it around 7.0 or lower.

Once the flourite comes in the mail I'm going to distribute that throughout the tank, then go searching for good pieces of slate, as that's the only thing that I can find around here without buying lfs stock.

Hopefully within four weeks if everything is looking great then I can get my hands on some corydoras bilineatus and introduce them into their new home. We shall see how everything pans out._


----------



## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

i think the stand and setup so far looks great man  lookng forward to see how it develops!


Sent from my iPhone


----------



## Al Slick (Jan 22, 2012)

thefisherman said:


> i think the stand and setup so far looks great man  lookng forward to see how it develops!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone


Thanks !

I picked up some Salvinia auriculata today from my lfs! Also found a source for Salvinia Natans although I want to see how these do first. (upon a closer inspection it appears that these may be two different species of salvinia. Although the leaf shape and texture appears to be the same, the darker brownish green ones grow linearly while the bright greens seem to be spreading radially...)









Tank's been running at a constant 78 degrees for twenty four hours and I have been adding waste from the filter media of my smaller tank. Hopefully in a week I can put a fish in here. Tomorrow a bag of flourite is coming in the mail and I'm going to add it to the tank. I'm also going to go on a mission to find the perfect piece of driftwood! I'm also going to collect some local slate as I don't have a clue what else to use.


----------



## kuni (May 7, 2010)

Flourite is really messy. You might want to consider setting up little "planting containers" using cheap sandwich storage plastic boxes, then sinking those into your substrate and hiding the border of the boxes with rocks/driftwood. It'll make your flourite go much farther and keep your substrates from mixing*.

*until your cories start playing in it!


----------



## Al Slick (Jan 22, 2012)

kuni said:


> Flourite is really messy. You might want to consider setting up little "planting containers" using cheap sandwich storage plastic boxes, then sinking those into your substrate and hiding the border of the boxes with rocks/driftwood. It'll make your flourite go much farther and keep your substrates from mixing*.
> 
> *until your cories start playing in it!


Wow thanks for the tip! I thought about making some small dividing boxes out of some spare acrylic that I have but I decided against it until now! What exactly do you mean by messy??


----------



## Al Slick (Jan 22, 2012)

Well I had some spare time between classes today and I decided to make this up!










and here it is retaining the sand! A bag of flourite is on the ups truck right now and it'll be here around five.










I went out into the woods today to find a cool piece of wood! I took this picture just to show how cool TN is.









found a really neat stump that ive been working on today, hopefully it will become water-logged soon.


----------



## Al Slick (Jan 22, 2012)

The flourite came in today and I put it all in the tank! unfortunately it's too cloudy now for pictures so hre is one before i put the new substrate in.


----------



## Al Slick (Jan 22, 2012)

I've made a lot of progress today on the tank. The substrate is almost completely done, although I still need to add some sand to the back left of the tank. I planted what I think to be three narrow leaf chain swords and a little bundle of java fern started on my driftwood! Many of my leaves are starting to sink and the biggest addition of all....

My two corys!! I really like these little guys, I believe that I have one female and one male. I've had the female for two weeks now and got the male today! 









They really like each other and will not leave each other alone!









I'm on the hunt for a supply of genuine inpaichthys kerri now. My lfs says they're too aggressive but everything I've read suggests that they're incredibly peaceful.. so I'm going to give them a try. If anyone has any idea where I can get some of these then please share.

Thanks for looking!


----------



## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

al man.. ur tank looks awesome!


Sent from my iPhone


----------



## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

Guilty of not reading the entire thread, but your tank is off to a good start in my book. A tip on the wood. Boil it for 20 min, rinse in really cold water and repeat. It will take some time, but it will sink that way.:icon_smil


----------



## Al Slick (Jan 22, 2012)

thefisherman said:


> al man.. ur tank looks awesome!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone


Thanks! I am excited about this tank and I think it is coming out even better than I expected so far.



cableguy69846 said:


> Guilty of not reading the entire thread, but your tank is off to a good start in my book. A tip on the wood. Boil it for 20 min, rinse in really cold water and repeat. It will take some time, but it will sink that way.:icon_smil


Ha did you notice the zip tie!!? well I'm not sure I have anything large enough to boil this in although I'm sure I could think of something. As of right now it's not really bothering anything and I'm sure it will sink after a few months? Hopefully!

I'm in the process of building a 3.8 liter co2 generator! I don't think I'll ever do anything bigger than this for my tank but I'm sure it will be beneficial to the tank.


----------



## Al Slick (Jan 22, 2012)

I set up a little diy co2 generator last night. I was able to keep an eye on the fish for the first few hours of operation. Today the bubble output is incredibly high... it looks like I have a small air pump connected to these airstones. I place the two airstone under the intake to my power filter. I wish that I could test my co2 levels somehow but I imagine they're fairly high. I think I need to refine my co2 mixture... In a 1.89 liter container I used 2 cups of sugar, one tablespoon of baking soda-to buffer the ph, 2.4 teaspoons of baking yeast and probably around 1.5 liters of water. I have two containers like this and I believe that they may burn themselves out fairly soon. 

Here are the tanks:









And in the tank:









I'm assuming that this will be beneficial. should I be planting large amounts of stems in here right now?


----------



## AlecFish (Nov 26, 2011)

How do you make those leaves sink? 

If you had a bunch of those it would look like a natural habitat. 

Btw, Your tank is coming along!!!


----------



## Al Slick (Jan 22, 2012)

Well I've heard it's safe to boil oak and beech leaves (of which there are TONS around my apartment) and place them into the tank. This will kill anything on them but more importantly break down their cellulose skeletons and allow water to penetrate the leaves causing them to sink! This process seems to remove most of the tannins, which I actually want, so I just stuck them in the tank and they floated around for about five days and sank one by one. I was thinking that one portion of my tank could be a little group of fallen leaves for the cories to play in and to help lower the ph and darken the water a little.


----------



## AlecFish (Nov 26, 2011)

Wow, that's sweet! Now are you limited to only oak leaves or can I use others? 

I was thinking the same exact thing as you, having a small portion of them. I'm starting up a 75 gallon community tank with pretty much the same stuff as you. I have pool filter sand and eco-complete. But the leaves will look awesome with tetras and would be a great breeding spot for dwarf cichlids possibly.


----------



## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

On the CO2, for my 20 gallon I use 2 cups sugar and 2 teaspoons yeast. I also have it set up so that both yeast bottles put the gas into a smaller bottle filled with water to act as a bubble counter, then from that bottle it goes to the tank.










The 2 liter bottles are the yeast bottles and connected with a "T" connector. From there it goes into the smaller bottle that is full 3/4 of the way with water. The gas in goes to the bottom of the water and then you have one out to the tank that is above the water. Makes for a cleaner look and then you only have to mess with one airstone.:icon_smil


----------



## Al Slick (Jan 22, 2012)

Aquarist14 said:


> Wow, that's sweet! Now are you limited to only oak leaves or can I use others?
> 
> I was thinking the same exact thing as you, having a small portion of them. I'm starting up a 75 gallon community tank with pretty much the same stuff as you. I have pool filter sand and eco-complete. But the leaves will look awesome with tetras and would be a great breeding spot for dwarf cichlids possibly.


You can purchase those indian almond leaves, but I wouldn't bother. You can use oak or beech and actually I have one maple in there and two other unidentified leaves, maybe tulip poplar. The oak leaves seem to be staying together really well and I think that's the major reason why they can be used in an aquarium, they take a long time to disintegrate!



cableguy69846 said:


> On the CO2, for my 20 gallon I use 2 cups sugar and 2 teaspoons yeast. I also have it set up so that both yeast bottles put the gas into a smaller bottle filled with water to act as a bubble counter, then from that bottle it goes to the tank.
> 
> The 2 liter bottles are the yeast bottles and connected with a "T" connector. From there it goes into the smaller bottle that is full 3/4 of the way with water. The gas in goes to the bottom of the water and then you have one out to the tank that is above the water. Makes for a cleaner look and then you only have to mess with one airstone.:icon_smil


That looks excellent! Now I can count bubbles and lose an airstone. Thank you for the tip!


----------



## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

Al Slick said:


> You can purchase those indian almond leaves, but I wouldn't bother. You can use oak or beech and actually I have one maple in there and two other unidentified leaves, maybe tulip poplar. The oak leaves seem to be staying together really well and I think that's the major reason why they can be used in an aquarium, they take a long time to disintegrate!
> 
> 
> 
> That looks excellent! Now I can count bubbles and lose an airstone. Thank you for the tip!


No problem man. I usually change both bottles once a week, but, on alternating days so it stays pretty steady. Works really well when I keep up with it and don't get lazy. Lol.:hihi:


----------



## Al Slick (Jan 22, 2012)

Thanks Cable guy, when you replenish it.. do you just dump everything out and start from scratch? or can you keep the same yeast alive for long periods of time?

I added the bubble counter bottle to the setup and moved the output into the impeller housing of the filter-no more tubes in display.

Here's the most recent fts! The tank-height rotala in the back is actually just uprooted and floating up to the surface.










Fed the fish today and both catfish ate very readily. My girlfriend wanted me to put her guppy, Tarzan, into the setup too so I did... not sure how long until I can get it out of there. Maybe Tarzan will just be a foreign visitor to the tank forever


----------



## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

Al Slick said:


> Thanks Cable guy, when you replenish it.. do you just dump everything out and start from scratch? or can you keep the same yeast alive for long periods of time?
> 
> I added the bubble counter bottle to the setup and moved the output into the impeller housing of the filter-no more tubes in display.


I empty it and start over. I think you can keep the yeast alive for a long period, but I am not sure how. Something I need to look into for sure.

The tank is looking great too man.


----------



## Al Slick (Jan 22, 2012)

Well I have two bottles too so I think I'll just empty them one at a time to keep the production somewhat similar. And thanks! I have a long list of things I want to do still


----------



## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

Al Slick said:


> Well I have two bottles too so I think I'll just empty them one at a time to keep the production somewhat similar. And thanks! I have a long list of things I want to do still


No problem man. Glad to help. For the bottle changes, I usually do 1 of them and then 3 or so days later change the other one. Makes it easy and the CO2 stays steady.


----------



## Al Slick (Jan 22, 2012)

I picked up the glass that I had cut locally. I got two pieces of 1/4'' for the top of the tank and one piece of 1/8" for the light fixture.

Here's the top..








And the light fixture glass..


----------



## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

al man... you're totally pro man! 


Sent from my iPhone


----------



## Al Slick (Jan 22, 2012)

thefisherman said:


> al man... you're totally pro man!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone


Thanks !

I really like your tank and I am trying to model my plant selection after yours. If there is one thing I have no idea about it's what type of plants are out there and what I should try to grow!

Your cories resting on that lily is absolutely great. That is one plant from your setup that I really admire, I already have a spot picked out for one of my own!

I also really like all of the crypts in your tank too, they add a lot of interest among your stems.

As for your rainbow I'm very sorry to hear that he jumped! You might consider getting glass tops cut for your tank too. I got two 1/4" pieces each measuring 29.125"x5" It leaves some room for a plastic hinge between the pieces as well as one in in the rear for filtration equipment! If you decide to do that than I would also recommend getting a one inch hole drilled center in one of the pieces for easy feeding and pane removal. 

I'm sure you have your reason for open tops but I have lost so many fish running open tops that I just wanted to get a nice cover for them this time.

Thanks for your help and your tank looks great!


----------



## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

The glass top you have looks good man.


----------



## Al Slick (Jan 22, 2012)

cableguy69846 said:


> The glass top you have looks good man.


Thanks! It only cost me $17.50 and I got to specify my exact dimensions! Plus commercially available tops use 1/8" panes and I think the thicker glass looks nicer and will last forever.

Might be messing with my PAR values though...:hihi:


----------



## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

Al Slick said:


> Thanks! It only cost me $17.50 and I got to specify my exact dimensions! Plus commercially available tops use 1/8" panes and I think the thicker glass looks nicer and will last forever.
> 
> Might be messing with my PAR values though...:hihi:


Not bad. I may go that route for the rack I am going to be setting up in the spring. I don't like how flimsy the regular glass tops are, especially when there is a cat sitting on it.

If your par values go down a bit, you can paint the inside of your hood white. That will help with the light.


----------



## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

Al Slick said:


> Thanks !
> 
> I really like your tank and I am trying to model my plant selection after yours. If there is one thing I have no idea about it's what type of plants are out there and what I should try to grow!
> 
> ...


thanks al, your comments are very encouraging  i am flattered to even think you would model your plant selection on mine... i'm sure there are plenty fellow hobbyists out there who have the same plants and grow them a heck of a lot better! lol but thank you.

its funny you mention the dwarf lily. i have two bulbs and i was thinking about replacing one with a type of leafy crypt. pm me when you're ready i might be able to ROAK it over to you with some clippings on my next trim 

ya i'm totally sad about my rainbow... he was growing into a formidable alpha male fish, brilliant sheen and blood red streaks.. oh miss him so 

i am getting a cover made, perhaps thick acrylic instead of glass. whatevera cheaper. its only 12" deep so i think a hinge won't be necessary. definitely a finger grab in the detail.. you must be studying engineering ur very detail oriented! 

i'll post pics once i decide and have it made  i like open tanks just as a preference, i'm sure we can spend an entire thread on its pros and cons alone

keep up the great work on the tank man... cheers!


Sent from my iPhone


----------



## Al Slick (Jan 22, 2012)

cableguy69846 said:


> Not bad. I may go that route for the rack I am going to be setting up in the spring. I don't like how flimsy the regular glass tops are, especially when there is a cat sitting on it.
> 
> If your par values go down a bit, you can paint the inside of your hood white. That will help with the light.


Hey even better than that.... drumm rollllllll

Individual polished aluminum reflectors!! 









Haha I just made those from some flashing I got at work for $3.00. It is visibly brighter so I'm glad! Do you think 2 28 watt bulbs is overkill? I'm already getting some algae on my anubias leaves...



thefisherman said:


> thanks al, your comments are very encouraging  i am flattered to even think you would model your plant selection on mine... i'm sure there are plenty fellow hobbyists out there who have the same plants and grow them a heck of a lot better! lol but thank you.
> 
> its funny you mention the dwarf lily. i have two bulbs and i was thinking about replacing one with a type of leafy crypt. pm me when you're ready i might be able to ROAK it over to you with some clippings on my next trim
> 
> ...


My comments are completely deserved! I really think you have a good eye for placement.

Wow, I would really appreciate getting a free lily from you! Especially since your plant is the one that made me like lillies haha

Another option you could consider for covering your tank is one of my favorites. If you aren't trying to reduce evaporation that you can make a screen that fits perfectly! Go back in the building supply section of Lowe's or Home Depot and take a look in the window screen section. You need enough length of frame to match the perimeter length of your tank, a minimun of four corner brackets to create nice solid corners, a small amount of screen material to cover the surface area, some of the rubber lining that keeps the screen in, and optionally a screen tool to push the lining into the frame. This would probably run a little over twenty bucks (same as other options) and you could make it yourself! 

If you already have an old window screen laying around than you already have everything you need to make one for free. With more corner brackets you can create right angles around your filtration equipment for a very finished look. I spray my completed screen tops with any black spray enamel just to give them a finished look.

This will keep your fish in and maintain the air exchange!

Oh and btw, I go to an engineering school, was almost a mechanical engineering major, but decided to become a music education major so I could study saxophone performance.

Thanks for looking!


----------



## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

Al Slick said:


> Hey even better than that.... drumm rollllllll
> 
> Individual polished aluminum reflectors!!
> 
> ...


That will work. Looks good. Don't fret the algae on the anubias leaves. Happens to all of us. I have algae on mine too. Just rub it off when you do water changes. As long as it does not spread, you should be good.


----------



## Al Slick (Jan 22, 2012)

Okay thanks, I have been rubbing it off with my thumb! I did have a light dusting of diatoms today and I know that's normal for a new tank.


----------



## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

Al Slick said:


> Okay thanks, I have been rubbing it off with my thumb! I did have a light dusting of diatoms today and I know that's normal for a new tank.


Diatoms are easy. Otos will gobble that up quick. Algae tends to be attracted to the slower growing plants. Especially anubias. It is an algae magnet. But if you keep the leaves clean, you should be good.


----------



## Al Slick (Jan 22, 2012)

cableguy69846 said:


> Diatoms are easy. Otos will gobble that up quick. Algae tends to be attracted to the slower growing plants. Especially anubias. It is an algae magnet. But if you keep the leaves clean, you should be good.


I looked at a few otos at my lfs the other day and I was hesitant to get one. First of all it wasn't in my original plans... But they are from south America so they kinda fit ! Secondly there were three varieties and I didn't know enough about them to make a good choice (SAE, dwarf oto, something else...) and thirdly I was very worried about providing them with enough food. 

If the algae is consistently bad then I would feel comfortable owning one, but I need to know that I'm providing them with a good habitat and proper care before I'll buy one.


----------



## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

Al Slick said:


> I looked at a few otos at my lfs the other day and I was hesitant to get one. First of all it wasn't in my original plans... But they are from south America so they kinda fit ! Secondly there were three varieties and I didn't know enough about them to make a good choice (SAE, dwarf oto, something else...) and thirdly I was very worried about providing them with enough food.
> 
> If the algae is consistently bad then I would feel comfortable owning one, but I need to know that I'm providing them with a good habitat and proper care before I'll buy one.


Go with otos. Not the SAE's. If you notice they are not getting enough to eat, you can always give them some zucchini. They love that stuff. There are all kinds of tutorials on YouTube for that too.


----------



## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

cableguy69846 said:


> Go with otos. Not the SAE's. If you notice they are not getting enough to eat, you can always give them some zucchini. They love that stuff. There are all kinds of tutorials on YouTube for that too.


+1 on the ottos bro... SAE's get big and lose their taste for algae as adults. they also nible on plants eventually


Sent from my iPhone


----------



## Al Slick (Jan 22, 2012)

Okay, thanks for the advice! I like the way those little otos look and I have plenty of soft micro algae at the moment and I can always cultivate some algae too.

I have tons of growth on my original plants at the moment, some of them look a little rough but all of the new growth looks great. The bright read rotala is growing in much more green and has lots of new stems shooting off of the original growth. I have two new Anubias leaves and there's a constant and thick stream of oxygen coming off the "stem." (I don't remember what that part is called)


----------



## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

Al Slick said:


> Okay, thanks for the advice! I like the way those little otos look and I have plenty of soft micro algae at the moment and I can always cultivate some algae too.
> 
> I have tons of growth on my original plants at the moment, some of them look a little rough but all of the new growth looks great. The bright read rotala is growing in much more green and has lots of new stems shooting off of the original growth. I have two new Anubias leaves and there's a constant and thick stream of oxygen coming off the "stem." (I don't remember what that part is called)


Just make sure to keep the otos in a small group. You can probably safely do 3 to 5 in your tank. They seem to stay happier and healthier that way.:thumbsup:


----------



## Al Slick (Jan 22, 2012)

Here's an update of my tank growth! I really want to add some more livestock soon.


----------



## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

i love the progress al it looks great! are those red root floaters you got there 


Sent from my iPhone


----------



## Al Slick (Jan 22, 2012)

Thanks! They're some type of Salvinia species. I thought they were going to to die at one point and I realized I need to reduce some surface agitation and find a way to keep them under the lights and now they are really taking off. I'd say they have all more than doubled in size. They are fast growers and I would love to send some out soon to some people. I can't wait to get some more plants in this tank!


----------



## Titan17 (Oct 27, 2011)

Al Slick said:


> I've made a lot of progress today on the tank. The substrate is almost completely done, although I still need to add some sand to the back left of the tank. I planted what I think to be three narrow leaf chain swords and a little bundle of java fern started on my driftwood! Many of my leaves are starting to sink and the biggest addition of all....
> 
> My two corys!! I really like these little guys, I believe that I have one female and one male. I've had the female for two weeks now and got the male today!
> 
> ...


Nice to see someone else from Cookeville on here. Your tank is progressing very nicely so far. I assume when you say LFS you are referring to Exotic Tropicals? If so just have one of the staff there special order the fish for you. The guys their are awesome. They quarantine all fish for a minimum of 10 days before they will sell them. Also, Age of Aquariums just opened a stones throw away from there at 118 N. Cedar. They might have the fish your looking for in stock there. Good luck with the rest of the build I will be following along.


----------



## Al Slick (Jan 22, 2012)

Titan17 said:


> Nice to see someone else from Cookeville on here. Your tank is progressing very nicely so far. I assume when you say LFS you are referring to Exotic Tropicals? If so just have one of the staff there special order the fish for you. The guys their are awesome. They quarantine all fish for a minimum of 10 days before they will sell them. Also, Age of Aquariums just opened a stones throw away from there at 118 N. Cedar. They might have the fish your looking for in stock there. Good luck with the rest of the build I will be following along.


Yep I stop in at exotic tropicals at least once a week to check on stock and say hi. I grabbed my first crypt today and a little otto cat! Thanks so much for the info about the new store, I had no idea that it just opened up here in town. I'm gonna have to go and find it on Friday. I have been waiting to grab some more cories and as soon as their distributor gets some in they have promised to give me a call. Then I'm going to special order those tetras through them as well. They have been very helpful there and It's nice to stop by and say hey.


----------



## Al Slick (Jan 22, 2012)

I just posted these over in the swap n shop but here they are anyhow cause they look so beautiful!

Check out how thick my salvinia has grown!









I just noticed that this plant may be starting to flower too.









Finally here is a fts, I added an unknown bunch of stems and also a few crypts that don't look so hot...









Thanks for looking everyone!


----------



## Ptjameso (Jan 1, 2012)

Looks great! Can't wait to get my journal up, I just planted and filled my 20L last night! I really like the sand and your plant arrangement! Keep it up


----------



## Ptjameso (Jan 1, 2012)

Oh and the Salvinia is killllller it has such a cool leaf texture!


----------



## NWA-Planted (Aug 27, 2011)

Looks beautiful!

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


----------



## Al Slick (Jan 22, 2012)

Ptjameso said:


> Looks great! Can't wait to get my journal up, I just planted and filled my 20L last night! I really like the sand and your plant arrangement! Keep it up
> 
> Oh and the Salvinia is killllller it has such a cool leaf texture!


I can't wait to see your 20L! I like seeing what other people do with the same size tank. I agree. the salvinia looks amazing!



NWA-Planted said:


> Looks beautiful!
> 
> Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


Thanks so much !


I just added a couple of amano shrimp to the tank and everybody is doing well!

Current inhabitants:

1 Male guppy
2 Corydoras Bileneatus Males
1 dwarf oto cat
2 algae eating/amano shrimp!


----------



## Al Slick (Jan 22, 2012)

I have some very interesting additions to my tank lately that I can't wait to post up here soon! (got a great ROAK package from a friend!)


----------



## LB79 (Nov 18, 2011)

Oh, boy, that's a great start you've got there! My only suggestion is that that tank is BEGGING for dwarf cichlids. I don't know which ones, but it's just begging. Apistogramma spp.? And since you've a covered top, why not get some hatchetfish? They're totally unique!


----------



## Al Slick (Jan 22, 2012)

I really am dying to stock this tank up with some fish but I feel like it's the hardest decision ever!! I have been trying to locate some blue emperor tetras and more corydoras bilineatus but I have not had any luck. 
Those are some beautiful fish for sure but aren't they known for uprooting tons of plants and stuff? I wouldn't mind getting a pair of them along with my corys

Thanks for looking


----------



## LB79 (Nov 18, 2011)

Apistos dig very little. If at all. And they're not big, aggressive, and territorial like their cousins. My BN pleco digs more. Just make sure to provide them with a cave (you can find really nice 'hollow rocks' at any LFS) and they'll be happy as a clam. Or an Apisto with a cave... Here's one of my males.











And another one of a different species.











Great fish. They might even breed for you. Their only problem is that they can be rather expensive.


----------



## Al Slick (Jan 22, 2012)

Wow those are both beautiful fish, how expensive are you talking about ? I used to pay a lot for saltwater fish


----------



## LB79 (Nov 18, 2011)

$30 per pair for the Apistogramma Cacatuoides 'Orange Flash' (top) and $18 per pair for the Apistogramma Cruzi sp. 'Beige' (bottom). It's worth it when they breed though.


----------



## Al Slick (Jan 22, 2012)

That's not bad for a pair! Maybe I'll check in Nashville and see what they have available.

Thanks for the suggestion.


----------



## LB79 (Nov 18, 2011)

Do your homework, though. You want to know all about them before getting them. Don't pull an LB79 and get them before knowing anything about them and having them die on you. That's what happened to my first pair of A. Cacatuoides...

Check and see if they've got more cories available while you're there. The ones you have are awesome, and they'd be doubly so in a larger group!


----------



## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

LB79 said:


> Apistos dig very little. If at all. And they're not big, aggressive, and territorial like their cousins. My BN pleco digs more. Just make sure to provide them with a cave (you can find really nice 'hollow rocks' at any LFS) and they'll be happy as a clam. Or an Apisto with a cave... Here's one of my males.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


those are gorgeous LB! 


- thefisherman


----------



## LB79 (Nov 18, 2011)

Yeah, I'm really trying to get the male Cacatuoides to breed. He's still young and a bit blundering, but I'm thinking one of these days he'll realize mom's supposed to guard the eggs and he's supposed to guard the territory. The male Cruzi is even younger and is a successful father of two batches.


----------



## Al Slick (Jan 22, 2012)

Ha he will learn in time!

I definitely do want to breed whatever fish I end up with in this tank. I think that it is a sign that you are giving the fish everything that they deserve!


----------



## LB79 (Nov 18, 2011)

Yeah, breeding is the highest of rewards when keeping fish.


----------



## LB79 (Nov 18, 2011)

Any other updates?


----------



## Al Slick (Jan 22, 2012)

Yes I definitely do! Today is my last day of class so I'll have some time later to post up some new pictures!


----------



## LB79 (Nov 18, 2011)

Awesome. I have yet to have the college experience. Sounds a little daunting, but I'll have my fish to help me out...


----------



## Al Slick (Jan 22, 2012)

Haha college isn't bad! But it can really be difficult at times. Are you in high school now?


----------



## LB79 (Nov 18, 2011)

Yup. Enjoying the football part immensely. I Don't know exactly what I want to do as a profession but it's gotta be fish-oriented.


----------



## Al Slick (Jan 22, 2012)

I always wanted to kick for my high school team but I'm a musician and I always stuck with band. It's really paid off for me in the long run. Biology and zoology classes have been really good and I think majoring in biology or ecology would be really fun.

I have a lot of updates with the tank but unfortunately I left it for a few days and I'm at my parents' house. I do have a couple of crappy cell phone pics but I'll post them up just for the heck of it.

I received an awesome raok from thefisherman this week! It was a great package that included so many neat plants. He sent me his mother lily bulb, some rotalas, some stargrass, some cool hygro stems, and a few other awesome plants! They came a little rough due to a long shipment, but they are recuperating in my tank at the moment.

Here's a fts I took last night:









I finally broke down and bought some fish too... I really wanted those kerri tetras but I went with these instead!

7 bloodfin tetras, I really like these guys









They school very tightly and my corydoras finally feel comfortable coming out and foraging when people approach the tank!


----------



## LB79 (Nov 18, 2011)

Beautiful! All it needs is a pair of GBRs, Nannacara anomala, or Dicrossus filamentosus. Do you have more cories? I think a school of six-eight would look awesome. I think you could add a few guppies (male and female) to brighten the upper areas and provide the other occupants with a live food source. It's really fun to watch a fish stalk its prey!


----------



## Al Slick (Jan 22, 2012)

I would love a pair of rams actually and have really been considering getting one! That dicrossus is cool and I've actually never seen one. I only have the two cories at them moment! My lfs has been waiting to get them in forever but my eventually goal is a minimum of six, maybe eight depending on other inhabitants and filtration. I was thinking about giving my boy tarzan a girlfriend, plus my girlfriend would like that too! I figured the babies would just get eaten and woudn't be a problem in the long run. I'm going to see how everything balances out before I add anything else. I definitely want more cories though.

Do you have a tank thread?


----------



## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

+1 on the GBR pair Al! i absolutley adore this fish. of course my
little lady GBR is all alone now due to a bizarre love triangle.. i recommend not more than one pair for the 20L.

also usually they are juvies at the LFS which makes it super difficult to sex, let alone guess if they will become mated. i've read of purchasing at least a group of 6 (2:4 M:F ratio) and let them grow up in a community together. when they mature you will know right away which pairs become mated. 

this of course requires another tank(s) specifically
for breeding, as it is required to remove the mated pair from the community in order to breed.

the bloodfun tetras are gorgeous and definately a choice in my tank if i didn't have the cardinals or rasboras 


- thefisherman


----------



## Al Slick (Jan 22, 2012)

I used to love rams and always wanted some but I forgot about them 

until I saw your little man wanted thread 

would a pair of rams get very aggressive if they were breeding? I never want my fish to kill each other! Also I have a couple Amano shrimp and want them to be safe.

Thanks again for all of the plants, they are going to look great when they fill in!


----------



## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

unfortunately yes... you're shrimps are not safe 

my ram is lasy btw! no worries Miss Allegra (my wife named her lol) forgives you 


- thefisherman


----------



## Al Slick (Jan 22, 2012)

Haha great name  I'm in no rush so I'll keep looking for a pair of show fish that will live happily. I think an orange dwarf gourami would be pretty nice.


----------



## LB79 (Nov 18, 2011)

I think _fully adult_ amano shrimp would be perfectly safe with GBRs, Checkerboards, and Golden Dwarf Acaras (the suggested species). I've seen a few of Takashi Amano's (great guy) tanks with all three and amano shrimp living side by side. Many gouramis are on growth hormones that speed their growth rate because they are slow growers. These fish usually only last a matter of months in aquaria. They are also unpredictable; you could end up with either a wonderful new addition or hell in scales.

Rams are aggressive to a point in breeding. They will not tolerate invaders of their territory (usually no bigger than 6-8 sq. inches). But they're not like many of the bigger cichlids, who will relentlessly chase and sometime murder other fish in the defense of their brood. 

Another fish that is cichlid-like but smaller than even the dwarf cichlids is the scarlet badis. These would definitely not fail to please.

You have a LOT of cover in your tank. Keep it that way, for it provides the fish with a huge sense of security and it'll dial down the aggression with breeding cichlids cause they can't see any predators.


----------



## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

i had fully adult amanos that ended up being a lobster buffet for my crazy female GBR and the Preacox Gang lol.

although the two that did survive ended up getting fried when my pH became too acidic at 6.0. 


- thefisherman


----------



## Al Slick (Jan 22, 2012)

Well my two shrimp are rather large.. Maybe some juveniles raised up with the shrimp wouldn't be too aggressive? Who knows, I would hate to have anything kill each other though in my tank!


----------



## LB79 (Nov 18, 2011)

I honestly don't know. Juvies raised with them might work. The rule is 'If it fits in the mouth it goes in the mouth'. Does your LFS take returns? Experiment with one and if it works, you know what to do, if not, return it.

...Praecox Gang? Now that's just not fair pitting them against amanos...


----------



## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

Al Slick said:


> Well my two shrimp are rather large.. Maybe some juveniles raised up with the shrimp wouldn't be too aggressive? Who knows, I would hate to have anything kill each other though in my tank!


i'm not saying that they will definately anihilate each other lol people say as long as the shrimpies have enough cover they can coexist. shrimps know they are on the bottom of the food chain lol.

but then again the same peeps might have 100g+ tanks... its just my personal experience in such a small footprint like my own 20L the critters cant help but bump into each other. 

as juvies i think they will be fine, but they're still cichlids and that predatory instinct is definately there. when they breed, they are hands down more territorial and aggressive. to the point that they used to attack my hands during maintenance lol


- thefisherman


----------



## LB79 (Nov 18, 2011)

That's true. Maybe the scarlet badis, then...


----------



## Al Slick (Jan 22, 2012)

thefisherman said:


> i'm not saying that they will definately anihilate each other lol people say as long as the shrimpies have enough cover they can coexist. shrimps know they are on the bottom of the food chain lol.
> 
> but then again the same peeps might have 100g+ tanks... its just my personal experience in such a small footprint like my own 20L the critters cant help but bump into each other.
> 
> ...


I was thinking the same thing, that my tank is too small to effectively "hide" the shrimp. I like them so I wouldn't want them to be snacks! The gbrs really ae gorgeous fish so I might try them out anyway!


LB79 said:


> That's true. Maybe the scarlet badis, then...


Those look cool too! Thanks for suggesting all of these neat species! I will have to see what would fit in as well as what is avaiable. I have ordered many fish online so would be fine doing that again.


----------



## LB79 (Nov 18, 2011)

Sweet. Any pics of the tank?


----------



## Al Slick (Jan 22, 2012)

Hey there, yeah I'll be back at my apartment later tonight so I can post some pics of plants fish etc.

Do you have a tank thread of your own?


----------



## LB79 (Nov 18, 2011)

Yeah, I'm rescaping my 55 in 1-2 weeks and I'll have one then!


----------



## Al Slick (Jan 22, 2012)

Very cool! I have always had trouble scaping my own 55 because it is so narrow front to back.

I'm back at my apartment now but my lights are off and I'm about to celebrate spring break with my roommate.. haha so I'll get some pics up tomorrow. All my fish are alive and everything looks great so I couldn't be happier.


----------



## LB79 (Nov 18, 2011)

Yeah, I'm dying for a 75g but my mom is still in charge here.... I need a ton of vals first to do anything really great.


----------



## Al Slick (Jan 22, 2012)

Haha a 75 gallon is soooo much better than a 55.. but even though I've moved out, sometimes I swear my mom still runs the show too!


----------



## LB79 (Nov 18, 2011)

Yeah, I think we'll never be fully rid of them, but then again, that's what they're here for. Making sure we don't pull the wrong strings. I've quite a few plans for when I move out, though. All of them have to do with aquariums.


----------



## Al Slick (Jan 22, 2012)

Hey check out this absolutely terrible vid I posted on youtube. I was feeding my fish, whipped out my phone... My hands shake pretty badly all the time, but it was the best I could do!

Enjoy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_on0eqC-E4&context=C396eb33ADOEgsToPDskKKM8wxw7eLOoR0qCHCnpI-


----------



## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

Al Slick said:


> Hey check out this absolutely terrible vid I posted on youtube. I was feeding my fish, whipped out my phone... My hands shake pretty badly all the time, but it was the best I could do!
> 
> Enjoy
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_on0eqC-E4&context=C396eb33ADOEgsToPDskKKM8wxw7eLOoR0qCHCnpI-


i love your video al! your tank looks great! i love those bloodfin tetras, they're soo active i want to get a bunch now lol.

i only saw the vid trough my iphone but the plants look really healthy as well... great job! 


- thefisherman


----------



## Al Slick (Jan 22, 2012)

Thank you very much! I have your lillies planted on the left side of the tank and they're sprouting new shoots. I can't wait for them to grow in. I also removed most of the floating plants as they block light so badly. I also noticed that I've been making a fairly dumb mistake this whole time! I have been using a 1mL syringe to dose liquid ferts.. I thought it was a 10mL syringe this whole time! So I have been dosing 1/10th of what I thought, not to mention using 1/10th the dechlorinator that I thought :/


----------



## LB79 (Nov 18, 2011)

Well, everyone's fine, so I don't think there's anything to worry about, but definitely up the dechlorinator...


----------



## Al Slick (Jan 22, 2012)

Ha yeah luckily I do small frequent water changes so I have never had a very large amount of chlorinated water in my tanks at once. After adding an actual dose of fertilizers, increasing light levels, and upping my CO2 my plants were pearling again today which they haven't done in a few weeks.

I'm thinking about grabbing some spinach tomorrow and seeing if my otto will snack on it. He seems to be eating constantly and pooping once in a while. His belly looks a little round but I just want to be safe.


----------



## LB79 (Nov 18, 2011)

Yeah, spinach or Hikari algae wafers will work for that.


----------



## Al Slick (Jan 22, 2012)

Just wanted to let everybody know that my tank is still up and running ! My plants are growing really well, I have no algae and haven't lost any fish! I have never had this much success with a tank and I contribute it to members on this forum!

Thanks everyone


----------



## LB79 (Nov 18, 2011)

Awesome! Pictures sometime?


----------



## Al Slick (Jan 22, 2012)

Figured I'd post an update!

So my original plans fell through long ago as I could not locate or purchase my target species. The tank I believe is going to turn into a standard community tank and I believe that will be more enjoyable in the long run.



Can anyone identify this pale/clear tetra?


----------

