# Home Made Strip Light...



## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Without a meter it is hard or impossible to quantify the light.
That said the basic estimations would be the diodes will actually be driven at around .1W/diode..So I wouldn't expect more than about 2000 lumens in reality for the entire array. But that is a good of a guess as anything.

But more than enough light for a 20gal and a good balanced spectrum..

Your main problem is probably engineering. You have lot of heat to dissipate in an enclosed area and a plastic "heat sink" to boot. 
Longevity is questionable..

As a side note you could upgrade your timer to something like this:
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Prog...tsid=1020000000013003&af=ppc&crea=51413220145


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## Quizcat (Dec 21, 2014)

Yeah, that would be a nice addition. I am especially interested in a timer/dimmer that I can set the timer to simulate dawn and dusk before coming fully on and off. The plants seem to being doing well at a 12 hour interval using a lamp timer, but the on and off cycle is pretty abrupt. 



jeffkrol said:


> As a side note you could upgrade your timer to something like this: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Prog...tsid=1020000000013003&af=ppc&crea=51413220145


Actually, mine is an aluminum gutter housing, not the plastic gutter. The guy in the You Tube Video used a plastic gutter. But, I figured I would need something that would be a better heat sink. No, mine, even with eight strips oriented next to each other, generates almost no heat. When I put my hand on the top of the housing, it's barely even warm. It's supposed to produce 50,000 hours of light according to the specs, and there just doesn't seem like there's enough heat to degrade the performance of the LEDs, just luke warm to the touch on top of the housing of the aluminum gutter, and no heat if you touch the LEDs directly on the inside of the housing. I suspect that the aluminum is acting as kind of a heat sink for whatever heat does build-up, and it isn't much. But, I agree, time will tell as to longevity. 



jeffkrol said:


> Your main problem is probably engineering. You have lot of heat to dissipate in an enclosed area and a plastic "heat sink" to boot.
> Longevity is questionable...


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## Kathyy (Feb 22, 2010)

What about making your own PAR meter? A couple of posters here have designed them, threads are in the DIY forum I think.


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## Quizcat (Dec 21, 2014)

Thanks for letting me know...I'll do a search in the DIY forum, and see what I come up with. 



Kathyy said:


> What about making your own PAR meter? A couple of posters here have designed them, threads are in the DIY forum I think.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Quizcat said:


> They are pretty cheap to build, about $45.00, versus the cost of my Current Marine LED commercially produced fixture, which was about $130.00.


The entire strip was rated by the supplier at 72 Watts total. So what do you think the wattage is of the LEDs. Where did you buy them from? Have you thought of adding a remote to them? I have seen some for a few dollars on ebay

So the other light on the tank is a Marineland LED?


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## Quizcat (Dec 21, 2014)

*Apples versus Oranges?*

I calculated the wattage produced by each LED to be around .24 watts. I have had others comment that they believe they are only actually delivering about .1 watt per LED when you consider the natural losses that occur. But, there are 288 LEDs in the light fixture. So, somewhere between about 30 watts to as much as about 70 watts for the entire string, theoretically, depending on whom is right about the wattage, and more importantly, the lumens, that are actually being delivered to the tank. 

You can get the light strips for less, but they're shorter, or they are only RGB, not waterproof strips, etc..., and/or they do not also include Warm White/Cool White LEDs. My strip included not only LEDs that produce Warm White (3000K), which has four emitters in one LED, Red, Green, Blue, and Warm White, but the strip has separate LEDs, which are independently controllable, that independently produce Cool White (6500K), which is the minimum "color temperature" (6500K) required to nourish plants. I can't seem to get the link to cut and paste for some reason, but if you search within Ebay as follows, you should be able to find it

"5M 300led RGBW Led Flexible Strip DC12V RGB + Warm/Cool White with IR Controller." There are several choices, and prices vary according to the specs you choose. My strip in particular is an SMD5050 Version "IP67," which is an ecapsulated version, making the strip waterproof, with adhesive backing. I looks like the price has gone down to around $26.00, with controller, since I purchased mine.

I wanted to use the 16.5' length of strip in order to deliver more lumens to the tank. My fixture should theoretcially be delivering about 1900 lumens. You can get by with half the strip if you are only going for a visual effect, but if you're striving to nourish the plants, then I think you will probably need the full length 16.5' strip to do it, theoretically.

By the time you purchase the guttering/end caps, and anything else that's needed to complete the fixture housing (light switch, lamp cord, paint for inside of the housing as a reflector, caulk, etc...), and the power supply to properly power the fixture, the total cost is around $45.00 for one fixture. You could produce more than one since you're purchasing a full 8' gutter length, can of paint, etc...But, the cost, amortized down to one fixture, turned out to be about $45.00 complete. 

It cost me about $29.95 for a 16.5' "RGBWW" (Cool White (6500K)/Warm White (3000K), with full spectrum controller, via Ebay (China). But, you still have to power it, which requires a 6 Amp 12-24Vdc power supply, and those are about $12.00 on Ebay (China). 

The other light fixture I referred that's in my 29 Gallon tank is a commercially produced light fixture made by "Current." It's designed for a Marine Tank (8,000K/12,000K White), with Dual Actinic (445nm/460nm) Blue LEDs. It's a high efficiency light fixture. It delivers more than what would be required for a fresh water planted tank, and it has a lot more bells and whistles on it with respect to multiple timers, dimmers, various weather simulations, etc...than the home made light fixture. The important comparison is in evaluating the quality of the LEDs in the Current Brand Fixture, versus the LED strip light. The Current fixture uses LEDs that are significantly more efficient than LED light strip LEDs. But, there's a big price difference too, $130.00 (Current) versus the homemade fixture ($45.00). 

For example, here's the dichotomy...the Current brand fixture only puts out 18 Watts, versus the 70 watts of light (according to the published specs) from the 16.5' I used in the homemade LED strip light fixture. But, it's all about the "efficiency" of the LEDs. That's why I'm not sure about how much useable light is actually being delivered to the tank with respect to nourishing the plants with the homemade fixture (ie: 18 Watts from the Current fixture, which is designed for a much more demanding Marine tank, versus 70 Watts from an 16.5' LED light strip). The Current light fixture, at 18 Watts, blows away the home made fixture with respect to the quality of light being delivered to the tank, and the quantity of lumens. So, there's definitely a difference in LED quality and efficiency, and how the light from certain quality levels of LEDs perform with respect to nourishing plants through water. 

I know this desparity exists between various LEDs, but without a PAR meter, I don't have any means by which to test the disparity between the LEDs in a Chinese (Ebay) light strip, versus those that are used in commercially produced high efficiency LED light fixtures, and especially those designed for either planted tanks, or marine environments (ie: coral, live rock, etc...). But, the desparity most definitely exists just based solely on the wattage levels that are being delivered to the tank by the two fixtures.



Hilde said:


> Well did you check EBay? I am getting an RGB light strip with controller and adaptor for $20. Have you thought of adding a control unit to it. On Ebay they are about $3.
> 
> So the other light on the tank is a Marineland LED?


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Quizcat said:


> It's about $29.95 for a 16.5' RGBW (Cool White (6500K)/Warm White (3000K), with full spectrum controller, via Ebay (China). But, you still have to power it, which requires a 6 Amp 12-24Vdc power supply, and those are about $12.00 on Ebay (China) for anything with decent quality specs. The homemade fixture ($45.00).
> 
> The other light fixture I referred that's in my 29 Gallon tank is a commercially produced light fixture made by "Current." It's designed for a Marine Tank (8,000K/12,000K White), with Dual Actinic (445nm/460nm) Blue LEDs. Is designed for a much more demanding Marine tank


I wonder if the DIY fixture could grow plants without the Current light strip. Beamworks LED light strip with .5 watt leds 24in is $50 so I think you made a good cheap LED system.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

> The Current fixture uses LEDs that are significantly more efficient than LED light strip LEDs.


This is not necessarily true..The Current, being designed ON an aluminum heat sink can be driven at a higher current, but w/ the same diode efficiency as what is in the strips.

Key here is the current limiting resistor. By making it smaller you apply a larger current, thus increasing gross output (and heating). To call it more efficient is a bit of a misnomer and it actuality may be less "lumen/watt" efficient than the strips BUT more gross power efficient, losing less because of less "power" being dissipated by the resistors.
In other words the watts actually getting to the diodes is more efficient but less watts are getting there due to design (dissipating power in the resistor).
The diodes themselves may come from the same company but yet appear to be of "better quality" due to an engineering quirk..
Bottom line:
I have no idea of where Current sources their LED's nor of strips but a blanket statement as above is not necessary correct without qualifying what you mean. 
The advantage of say Current is consistency (even that is a bit theoretical) and possibly higher drive current.
If you want to increase the output of your strips, you have to overcome the resistor by increasing the voltage to them.. Granted you are working outside their design parameters, but a volt or 2 increase is possible. And if heat is managed well, would not shorten their life too much.

Strips are designed for "free air" so are run conservative..

A 5050smd strip using 220Ohm terminator resistor run at 12V (3.04V at each diode and the rest is "dropped" at the resistor) will use .015A which will equal 0.045W/diode
Changing the resistor to 39Ohms and each diode uses 0.19W.. 
Example 2 is obviously brighter than 1 ( but the diodes are the same..and power supply watt useage will be the same )

holding the resistor "constant" (you have no choice) but increasing the voltage will increase the voltage seen by the diodes and consequently increase their drive current and of course "watts"..
Fun w/ strips:


> I cut off a three LED strip, and replaced the 220 Ohm surface mount resistor with a 50 Ohm.
> Then I ran the strip up to 17.88 V and 100 mA. A lot brighter. At this current each LED burns 430 mW, close to the limit of 450 mW. I don't think you're supposed to look directly at these LEDs at this power level. I ran it at that level for about a minute, and nothing got too hot to touch during that time. I ran the short strip at 14 V and 60 mA for quite a while.
> At 12.3 V the LEDs draw 40 mA, three times more than the 13 mA they ran at with the 220 Ohm resistor.


Important part in red.. but the bottom line: You want to push the diodes you have , either change the resistor, or increase the voltage..
side note: terminating is not really correct, the resistor can be anywhere in the triplet.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=743779
http://led.linear1.org/led.wiz


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## Quizcat (Dec 21, 2014)

The home made LED strip light fixture is on the 20 gallon tank, which has never had the Current light fixture on it. The home made light fixture has only been there about three or four weeks. But, the plants seem to be doing fine. I have anubias, ludwigia-repens, java fern, java moss, and some dwarf hair grass in the 20 gallon tank. One encouraging thing is that the dwarf hair grass was a little brown when I put it in there, and it has started to green-up, even though it's a little slow in spreading. I figure that the most finicky of the plants in this tank are the dwaft hair grass and the ludwigia-repens, in that order. The Ludwigia-Repens looks great, and the DHG is doing fine. Prior to putting the home made light fixture in place on the 20 gallon tank, I was using a different home made light fixture (gutter style), using 3 CFL bulbs (6500K). It seemd to work well too, but the new LED light fixture has more versatility than the CFL fixture has. 

The Current brand light strip is on a totally different tank, and has never been on the 20 gallon tank where the home made LED strip light fixture is now. I have always used the Current light fixture on the 29 gallon tank, which only has some anubias, and some java fern in it. I like the Current brand light fixture on this tank, not because of the plants, but because the color range of the LEDs in the Current light fixture illuminates my mulitcolored glow fish so well, and there are more bells and whistles to play with on the Current brand light fixture. I think the Current brand light is a little strong for the two kinds of plants in this tank, the anubias and java fern, which are "low light" users. I consciously move the light off center on the top of the tank so they don't get a lot of direct light from the fixture, just because the light spectrum of the Current fixture is more suited for plants that need a lot of light, rather than low light. But, you can't beat the Current brand light for showing off the glow fish. 

I may experiment eventually by switching the light fixtures between the two tanks someday, but I need a little more time to see what the LED strip light will do on the 20 gallon tank with respect to the plant growth. 




Hilde said:


> I wonder if the DIY fixture could grow plants without the Current light strip. Beamworks LED light strip with .5 watt leds 24in is $50 so I think you made a good cheap LED system.


The interesting speculation is whether having LEDs that are less bright individually, but more of them, such as the LED strip light fixture, is better with respect to delivering light to a planted tank, rather than using more powerful LEDs that concentrate their intensity into fewer LEDs. My gut reaction would be that the strip light is probably better, more even, more subtle with respect to it's effects upon the plants, provided there is sufficient PAR value to reach the top of the substrate. But, that's strictly a guess on my part without a PAR meter. If the Current brand fixture is delivering 18 watts of light at full intensity, but the individual LEDs seem brighter than the strip light, visually, because it is more uncomfortable to look at directly than I experience with the strip lighting, I'm not sure how to interpret that with respect to each design's effects upon the the plants. I just had a hunch at the time I was designing the strip light fixture that I needed to put more strip lighting into the fixture (8 full strips x 24") in order to acheive sufficient light in the tank to be at least on par (no pun intended) with the Current brand fixture's level of illumination, visually. But, 18 Watts output (Current brand fixture) versus 30-70 watts output (strip light) is a huge gap in comparison. I don't really know how to quantify it accurately within the context of evaluating each respective fixture's effects upon plant growth, since the human eye (wattage/lumens) isn't really an adequate measure of which of the two designs is better for plants.

With regard to your analysis of the wattage and current delivery system, the strip light will tolerate up to 24 volts input power, but power is delivered to the strip lighting through the simplistic, yet versatile, IR controller. I suspect that the controller limits everything, and that unless I were able to directly power the strips independently, apart from the IR controller I'm now using, a change to 24 Vdc wouldn't change the intensity of the LEDs because the controller closely regulates everything based on the input voltage. 

Do you think that the controller you recommended before, the 5-channel in your prior post, would yield a greater level of intensity from the LEDs in the strip light? That would be an interesting experiement. But, if so, the only downside to that would be that the 5-channel controller would not have the same diversity of adjustment that's already supplied in the simple IR controller that came with the strip light. Plus, we don't really know if by increasing the intensity with respect to voltage as it relates to wattage/lumens, that we would gain much with respect to possibly already being "on par" at 12Vdc, or that by being at less intensity yielded by 12 Vdc, that we might be endulging in a wasted effort by increasing to 24Vdc, since we might have already been acheiving sufficient levels of light for plant growth at 12Vdc. We're back to the PAR meter, aren't we...LOL!

There are some limitiations with respect to using the standard IR controller with these LED strip lights, versus embellishing the circuit with replacement diode/resistor values, where you can use a different kind of controller/power supply. But, I do like the low cost of the strip light/IR controller setup, the simplicity with respect to a heat sink not being necessary, and versatility of the effects that can be generated from the strip lighting when used with the standard IR controller, even though it also has it's limitations with respect a potential increase in intensity being possible through an altered circuit design because of the IR controller. 



jeffkrol said:


> This is not necessarily true..The Current, being designed ON an aluminum heat sink can be driven at a higher current, but w/ the same diode efficiency as what is in the strips.
> 
> Key here is the current limiting resistor. By making it smaller you apply a larger current, thus increasing gross output (and heating). To call it more efficient is a bit of a misnomer and it actuality may be less "lumen/watt" efficient than the strips BUT more gross power efficient, losing less because of less "power" being dissipated by the resistors.
> In other words the watts actually getting to the diodes is more efficient but less watts are getting there due to design (dissipating power in the resistor).
> ...


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Quizcat said:


> You can get the light strips for less, but they're shorter, or they are only RGB, not waterproof strips, etc..., and/or they do not also include Warm White/Cool White LEDs. My strip included not only LEDs that produce Warm White (3000K), which has four emitters in one LED, Red, Green, Blue, and Warm White, choose. My strip in particular is an SMD5050 Version "IP67. " I looks like the price has gone down to around $26.00, with controller, since I purchased mine.
> 
> By the time you purchase the guttering/end caps, and anything else that's needed to complete the fixture housing (light switch, lamp cord, paint for inside of the housing as a reflector, caulk, etc...), and the power supply to properly power the fixture, the total cost is around $45.00 for one fixture.


Yeh I got the RGB strip that is not waterproof. My tanks are covered thus I don't need the waterproof 1. Now I see why I can do it cheaper. For I am just going to put the strip in my T5NO light strip. Dealing with constant sinus headaches I want to do something that is quick. I will be putting over a 20G high too.

Bump:


jeffkrol said:


> The Current, being designed ON an aluminum heat sink can be driven at a higher current, but w/ the same diode efficiency as what is in the strips. Key here is the current limiting resistor.
> http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=743779
> http://led.linear1.org/led.wiz


So you could put the strip on a heat sink and add resistors between the strips to increase the output?


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Hilde said:


> Bump:
> So you could put the strip on a heat sink and add resistors between the strips to increase the output?


not practical . The resistor is surface mounted on the strip.. every 3 diodes.. PIA to exchange them.
you would have to lower their value.. Replace not add..

Easier to just up the voltage.. 

YMMV...


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

jeffkrol said:


> not practical . The resistor is surface mounted on the strip.. every 3 diodes.. PIA to exchange them.
> you would have to lower their value.. Replace not add..
> 
> Easier to just up the voltage..
> ...


After reading more I think it is probably easier to upgrade the controller. Will this burn the LEDs out though, thus decreasing the life span?


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Hilde said:


> After reading more I think it is probably easier to upgrade the controller. Will this burn the LEDs out though, thus decreasing the life span?


heating does kill LED's (and resistors) .. That said you have to find the sweet spot of heat vs volts.. 
Getting a variable voltage power supply allows you to tweak voltage in small increments..

I don't really consider these strips a long term fixture.. A few years possibly..
running them in their orig config and use probably longer..Tight confinement and high density.. ????

I do know most likely the power supply will fil before the diodes.. 

In other words .. don't expect to hand them down to your children.

I'd expect 14V to be about max.....


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

jeffkrol said:


> heating does kill LED's (and resistors) .. That said you have to find the sweet spot of heat vs volts..
> Getting a variable voltage power supply allows you to tweak voltage in small increments..
> 
> I don't really consider these strips a long term fixture.. A few years possibly..
> ...


Thanks for the head up. Was thinking of upgrading the control to this. Seems now a waist of cash.


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## Quizcat (Dec 21, 2014)

Well, the LEDS in the strip light, which each contain (4) emitters, are rated at 50,000 hours, about the same as if you bought some CREE high output emitters on a 20mm star PCB, and put them on a heat sink. The output of the CREE emitters is about 3.04 Vdc, so you're getting a lot more light from fewer Emitters if you go with the CREE high output LEDs. Time will tell...But, truly, the heat generated by the strip lighting isn't more than about 105-110 degrees at most, so I do not anticipate that heat will be the cause of failure. I can barely tell that it's warm. I guess the real issue is whether I can trust the word of the "Chinese" with respect to the 50,000 hours that they claim you'll get out of the strip lighting. I don't fear the heat, I fear the potential quality issues coming out of China that are very possibly inherent in strip lighting in particular, versus the higher quality and performance of CREE style Star PCB LEDs. 

The technology inherent in the strip lighting is several years old, versus the up-to-date technology inherent in the CREE or Phillips 4-color Emitters being produced today. So, that's kind of where I anticipate a discrepency in performance between what can be expected from an aquarium strip light, versus the performance, longevity, reliability, and consistency of what can be expected from the CREE or Phillips "State of the Art" LED Emitters. 

For kicks, I plan to build the same kind of fixture (gutter style) with the high output CREE style emitters as well, heat sinked, and using a conventional 5-Channel controller, without IR remote capability, just to see what it can do. I really like the wireless remote capability of the strip lighting, but I haven't been able to locate a controller for CREE emitters that is 5-channel (for RGBW(Warm 3000K)+W(Cool 6500K), and also has wireless remote capability, so I can wirelessly individually control the intensity of the emitters independently, and select certain colors to be on, and at varying intensities, at the same time as the Cool White (6500K) emitters. I would like to find a controller that has all that, and a timer/dimmer programming feature, so you can simulate dusk to dawn/fade effects, which is something that's lacking in the IR controller that comes with the strip lighting, but is inherent in the Current brand LED light fixture. 



jeffkrol said:


> In other words .. don't expect to hand them down to your children.


That's the same conclusion I came to as well. I think you would be better served spending any additional funds on building something that uses the CREE high output emitters, putting them on a heat sink, then moving to a higher output controller, and giving up the IR wireless remote feature that you've got available for the strip lighting. But, I assume you're like me, figuring that experimentation with the strip lighting has potential...and if by some miracle the strip lighting has a decent life span, it could turn out to be a real bargain, provided it meets it's performance demands with respect to the plants. 



Hilde said:


> Thanks for the head up. Was thinking of upgrading the control to this. Seems now a waist of cash.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Check this thread out by Hoppy


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## Quizcat (Dec 21, 2014)

Very interesting thread! 

Well, my first observation is that the SMDs he used are not the SMD5050s, which I used in my strip light. The SMD5050 LEDs contain all four colors, RGBW (Warm) + Cool White (6500K), and they are designed to generate significantly less heat than the SMD3XXX series he used for RGB. The SMD 56XX series he used are strictly Cool White LEDs. 

I assume that because he used the SMD3XXX series strip lighting for the colors, that those strips were generating sufficient heat to need a decent heat sink. I am not sure if the SMD56XX series are individual emitters, or combination LEDs, and/or whether they generate a lot of heat or not. 

My entire fixture, which contains (8) strips x 24," contains SMD5050s, RGBW(Warm 300K) within 144 single LEDs, + 144 Cool White (6500K) LEDs, all in the same strip. All I know is that the entire fixture, at full power, generates quite a bit less heat than you feel through the back of a laptop that's been on your lap for hours. So, I don't expect heat is going to be an issue with respect to effecting the longevity of my particular strip light. Like Jeffkrol theorizes though, if it fails for any particular reason, I also think it'll likely be the quality of the controller, power supply, or some inherent poor quality in the LEDs/circuitry of the strip. But, I thinks it's probably worth a roll of the dice to find out...



Hilde said:


> Check this thread out by Hoppy


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Quizcat said:


> Very interesting thread!
> 
> Well, my first observation is that the SMDs he used are not the SMD5050s, which I used in my strip light. The SMD5050 LEDs contain all four colors, RGBW (Warm) + Cool White (6500K), and they are designed to generate significantly less heat than the SMD3XXX series he used for RGB. The SMD 56XX series he used are strictly Cool White LEDs.
> 
> ...


5630's are single diodes.. 5050's come in single colors as well
https://www.superbrightleds.com/mor...md-led-120-degree-viewing-angle-1200-mcd/320/


The designation is diode size in mm 5.6 x 3.0 (5630) or 5.0 x 5.0 (5050)

The heat load is principally derived from the drive current. you can have cool 5630's ect by adjusting the resistor/and or power supply..

controllers are simply PWM "switches" designed for a particular output range (usually). In a sense it is a passive device..(technically a high speed switching circuit)


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## Quizcat (Dec 21, 2014)

Thanks, good to know...


jeffkrol said:


> The designation is diode size in mm 5.6 x 3.0 (5630) or 5.0 x 5.0 (5050)...


The published specs on the ones I got from China in particular rate them at 6 Amps per meter. Some of these strips are produced in sections of (3) LEDs per segment, then every (3) LED segment is joined together. Mine in particular have cut lines every (6) LEDs, so I suppose the diode/resistor are wired in parallel every length of (6) LEDs, then each length of (6) LED parallel circuit is wired in series to make a strip of them 5M long? I assume that might provide a hint as to the size of the diode and resistor in each segment, but that's where I start to get lost in making any attempt to guess at it. 

If I were to join two 5M lengths, I assume that I would be exceeding their capacity to function properly without going to a different type of controller/power supply, rather than attempting to use the IR Controller/6Amp power supply that is customarily used with the standard 5M length. If I joined two 5M lengths together, then is that where I would be better off going to a 24Vdc power supply? What would the 10M strip require with respect to a power supply/controller with regard to Amp capacity?


jeffkrol said:


> The heat load is principally derived from the drive current. you can have cool 5630's ect by adjusting the resistor/and or power supply..


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## Quizcat (Dec 21, 2014)

*More Photos...*

I prepared this for someone to assist them in the soldering process. I might as well post it here so that others might get some benefit from it, in case somebody wants to try to build one. The process is very tedious, and were I to assign a value to my time, it would have been less expensive to purchase a brand new commercially produced freshwater light fixture with all the bells and whistles. But, if you have the extra time, this is a pretty inexpensive light fixture to build. There are some small connectors available via Ebay and Amazon.com, but they don't work well. I tried them all first, before tackling the soldering process. But, all of the connectors I tried came loose very easily, and they won't permit you to bend the strips around at 180 degrees so that you can position them side by side within the gutter housing. Small wire extensions will be required to bend the strips around so you can place them side by side. Once the wires are soldered properly onto the ends of the strips, they are very sturdily attached to the solder pads on the strips. They are so strongly attached to the pads by solder that you don't have to worry about them pulling off. I never experienced any flickering, or other kinds of connection problems, after soldering the wire extensions in the manner described below. 

The greatest difficulty in making this fixture was soldering the strips so that I could position them side by side. The solder pads on the strip ends are very small, and it's very easy to accidentally short between the pads with solder if you're not careful.

First, I used 28 gauge stranded wire that I already had. The wire was from a cable that I scavengered from an old computer. I saved some of the cables inside the computer for projects just like this one. The particular piece of cable had color coded 28 gauge wires inside, making it easier to keep the color coding straight.









The Soldering Iron I have is a professional level soldering iron, a HAKKO. I used the .8mm x 14.5mm tip, and .032 diameter 60/40 solder. I solder most projects at 600 degrees F. A conventional (Radio Shack) soldering iron will make the project more difficult because you need to have the heat necessary to instantaneously liquify the solder at the pad, but not burn the tracings. I'm not even sure that standard soldering irons at Radio Shack have small tips available such as what I used, but a small tip is very necessary to keep the solder from running between the pads, and to isolate the heat to the copper pad, and not on the flexible white PCB next to the pads.























The first thing you need to do is stabilize the strip itself. I used duct tape to keep the strip from moving during the soldering process. I have an old table that I use to do projects like this, but you may need to have a piece of plywood or something under your project, so as not to damage the surface when you position and solder.









Once the strip is stablized, I recommend putting a very minute blob of solder at each of the copper pads first. Here is a shot of the way I orient the soldering iron to place a blob of solder onto the copper pad. You place the soldering iron in the edge of the pad, and flow the solder from the end of the roll of solder directly into where the soldering iron tip meets the pad. The solder will flow directly onto the pad, and remain in a small round blob on the pad once you remove the soldering iron tip from the pad.









Then, I recommend stripping and tinning the ends of each of the 2.5" long wires, placing very small amounts of solder on the very ends of the wires so there is a very small amount of solder, so that when you touch the soldering iron to the end of the wire on top of the pad, the solder that is coating the wire will flow immediately into to the pad as it heats up.

Then, you solder the tinned end of the wire to the color coordinated tinned pad by placing the tinned end of the wire over the top of the blob on the pad. Make sure that once you've tinned the ends of the wires, that you trim them to a very short length, so that they fit symetrically onto the same length as the pad, and that the ends of the wires are not too long. The other important thing is to stablize the each single wire so that the wire doesn't move off of the pad as you're soldering it. I completely isolated both the wire being soldered, and the strip with duct tape. I did this with each successive wire independently, moving from one color to the next.









I also used the blunt end of an exacto craft knife to hold the wire in place, using it to push the tip of the wire into position on ocassion when it was off center. Then, once positioned, I bring the soldering iron directly down on top of the wire, liquifying the solder in the wire, flowing it into the pad. I used just the amount of solder that was already on the copper pad, and tinned to the end of the wire. Adding additional solder during the soldering process will only cause it to overflow, and possibly cause a short between pads. If you need more solder at the pad, you'll need to use it very sparingly. I did have ocassion to use more solder, but I was very reluctant to do it because of the potential for solder shorting out the pads next to where I was working.








Using the exact knife to hold the wire perfectly on top of the pad prior to soldering.

If you do find that solder migrates to an adjoining pad, you can use the exacto knife to cut a slot between the pads, which will sever the connection between the pads. Just be careful that you cut perfectly between the pads so as not to cut or damage the trace that connects the totality of the strip from one LED to the next, etc...Also, once you cut between the pads, you can resolder the pad, and most of the time the solder will flow back into position on the pad.

Make sure you clean the tip of the soldering iron often, and not on a moist sponge, but on cleaning mesh, such as the one in the photo below. A wet sponge will usually corrode the ends of your tip, and degrade it's ability to conduct heat the more you use it. I replaced a tip after I completed one strip light because the tip was wearing out, and it's ability to conduct heat was making the soldering process much more difficult because the tip wouldn't melt the solder quickly, as it should.









I usually start with the RED wire, in the middle, and work my way out, color after color, out to each outside edge of the strip with the last wires, white and black.









Above is a good photo of how to hold the soldering iron next to the copper pad, then touch the solder to the pad flowing solder onto the pad area. Notice how the soldering iron tip is actually right next to the copper pad, touching the copper pad just enough to heat it up, but the tip is not really on top of the pad, it's just touching the edge of the pad. Once the soldering iron is in place, you just touch the end of the solder to the pad, and it will flow right where it belongs.

I tape the strips and wires down with duct tape, and solder the wires individually, using the blunt end of an exacto to make fine adjustments with respect to the location of the wire in relation to the pad. I remove the duct tape often, repositioning things with each and every wire being soldered, making sure everything is perfectly oriented before soldering. 


























Don't forget to position your heat shrink on each section of strip light before beginning the process. Although, my heat shrink was large enough in diameter to clear the end of the strip plug on one end, and I didn't have to do this. I used 18mm wide heat shrink, but you might be able to get by with something slightly smaller. I like the idea of the liquid tape even more, but I used heat shrink on my project.









Another thing I recommend, is to check continuity between the pads after everything is soldered to make sure there aren't any shorts between the pads.









Here are a couple of strips joined with the wires to each respective color, and heat shrink in place...I hooked them up to the controller/power supply, and as you can see, they work perfectly.















The solid white illuminated LEDs are the Cool White (6500K) LEDs. The ones that show color are selectable from the controller, RGB and Warm White. The controller can increase or decrease the intensity of the LEDs, RGBW(Warm) separately controllable from the Cool White (6500K) LEDs. So, while you have your Cool White (6500K) LEDs on at full intensity, you can also measure in some Red or Blue, in adjustable intensities, to augment the part of the color spectrum that isn't being addressed by the 6500K Cool White LEDs. 

So, you join (8) 24" sections side by side, and these will fit into the bottom of a standard aluminum gutter. Eventually, I heat shrinked the wires, not only at the pads to insulate them from the aluminum gutter, but I also used heat shrink wrapped around the wire extensions between the strips to stabilize the extension of wires between the strips, one to the other. But, I have since decided that rather than use heat shrink on the pads to insulate the gutter, I would probably prefer using liquid tape instead were I to do this in the future.


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## Quizcat (Dec 21, 2014)

With respect to nourishing the plants, the Green is just a bonus, because it's virtually useless with respect to nourishing plants. But, the Green does sometimes lend a nice visual effect to the tank if you're just interested in looking at the effects from time to time.









I've noticed that the Warm White (3000K) always has a slight tinge of bluish/voilet/white illuminating simulateously. I don't typically use the Warm White emitter, or the green, unless I'm just playing with the visual effects. Perhaps this blue/violet/white mix is indicative of poor quality, or perhaps it represents the color of the 3000K spectrum. Any ideas?








I figure that the 6500K Cool White Emitter, and "Red" emitter of the RGBW LED, on at full intensity, are the best combination for the plants in the tank, in that 6500K White light omits some of the Red Color Temperature that the plants can use. Adding Red into the mix should augment whatever is missing from 6500K with respect to the RED color temperature.









Close Up of LED Strips Hot Glued in Place. Each section of the individual strips can be cut at a particular spot so that the strips can be soldered together in order to be positioned side by side. There are a total of 6 LEDs between the points where the strip can be cut, so that they can be repositioned and soldered. I cut the strips at 24" lengths, and soldered them at the cut points using wire extensions that permitted me to orient the strips side by side. I stuck the strips in place using the double stick tape at first, then applied hot glue between the strips to hold the strips in place permanently. The Hot Glue seems to be working very well. I've tested the ability of the hot glue to remain adhered to the bottom of the gutter, and it seems to be holding well after about four weeks of testing on top of the aquarium. Using the double strip tape on the bottoms of the strips alone will come loose very quickly, and the light strips will fall down out of their respective positions. So, hot glue, or some other method, perhaps epoxy or something, are mandatory in order to hold the strips in place long term.








The Yellow tinted LEDs are the Cool White (6500K) LEDs, and the others are the RGBW(Warm White, (3000K) LEDs. 
















Red LEDs and Cool White (6500K) LEDS turned on simultaneously.








Blue LEDs and Cool White (6500K) LEDs turned on simultaneoulsy.








Green LEDs and Cool White (6500K) LEDs turned on simultaneously.








Warm White LEDs (3000K) on, and Cool White (6500K) LEDs turned off.








Warm White (3000K) LEDS, and Cool White (6500K) LEDS simultaneously turned on.

Wire Bundles can be heat shrinked together on the ends. Bundling them lends some additional stability and protection to the wire harnesses from strip to strip.








RGBWW IR Wireless Controller








Wireless IR Receiver plugged into the light strip on one side, the other side of the Controller is plugged into a 110Volt to 12Vdc 6Amp Power Supply.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

If I joined two 5M lengths together, then is that where I would be better off going to a 24Vdc power supply?
Lets just say no.. 

If you wire 2 lengths of strips in series you could probably use 24V 
Only reason to do this would be to run 2 short strips vs 1 long eliminating some voltage drop caused by length.

BTW it look s like the resistors go like this
Red=330 Ohms (0.04W at each diode)
B=150 Ohms (0.06W at each diode)
G=150 Ohms (0.06W at each diode)
W= 39 + 16 =55 Ohms (0.18W at each diode)
you can use those to calculate LED watts, not system watts.

http://www.wayjun.com/Datasheet/Led/5050 SMD LED.pdf

Peak forward current of the whites is about 150mA (approx 0.5W)


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## Quizcat (Dec 21, 2014)

So, am I correct in assuming about 26 Watts from the Whites, and about 7 watts from the Reds? You mentioned a foward current for the Whites at .5Watts, so not sure which to apply to my calculations, the lower number at the resistor, or the forward current per White LED. 

There are 144 of the Cool Whites, and 144 of the (4) color emitter LEDs (Red in this case). I am leaving the Cool White (6500K) on at full intensity, and the REDs on at full intensity. So, based on the specs you provided at the resistors, would that mean that I am delivering, theorectically, 7 Watts (Red) + 26 Watts (Cool White) = 33 Watts total, or would it be more like .5 Watts x 144 LEDs = 72 Watts from the Cool Whites, plus whatever is being delivered from the (4) color emitters (red in my case) @ .5 Watts? 

Of course, I assume there would be some losses inherent in the electrical circuit, but probably not much. If so, that sounds pretty good for a 20 gallon tank as it relates to nourishing plants. After all, the Current brand fixture that I have for a Marine Tank is only putting out 18 Watts, and it is designed to be delivering much more than is necessary for a normal planted tank, for plants that have low to medium light requirements. The Current brand fixture must have a higher PAR value, since the LEDs have greater intensity and color temperature (Whites) per LED. The number of LEDs in the Current brand fixture are as follows:

18 LEDs @ 445nm (Blue)
18 @ 460nm (Bllue)
27 @ 12,000K (White)
9 @ 8,000K (White)

The 12,000K and 8,000L LEDs are producing light in the spectrum of temperature color that should probalbly be providing the proper levels of "Red" for plants, I assume. 

I suppose the lumens calculation can't been extrapalated for the strip light fixture, based on the wattage specs you supplied? I think the lumens number would get me closer to knowing if the home made fixture is "on par," versus wattage, since I don't have a PAR meter. But, assuming 33 Watts, in a 20 Gallon Tank, that would put us at a little over 3 Watts per gallon, going by the old historical way of calculating required light for plants. Not too bad!



jeffkrol said:


> If I joined two 5M lengths together, then is that where I would be better off going to a 24Vdc power supply?
> Lets just say no..
> 
> If you wire 2 lengths of strips in series you could probably use 24V
> ...


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

0.5W is probably the maximum obtainable but NOT what they are driven to in the strips..
0.18W x 144 = 25.92W
0.04w x 144 = 5.76W
0.06x x288 (b + g) = 17.28 W

48.96 Total LED watts at full.. best guess.. 


A Kiil a watt meter will show much higher of course since it includes resistor and ps losses..
lumens don't help either..

12000k and 8000k LED are LOW in red . you don't get a healthy dose till you go 4000k or below..


your light is "arguably" red deficient..


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## haril (Feb 17, 2015)

Nice project Quizcat. I have been researching LED strips as well to supplement my FugeRay and have finally decided to get the 2835 LEDs instead of the 5050s. I got a strip of the 5050s and felt they are not bright enough. I came across some articles comparing the 2835 like http://www.topledvision.com/led/en/fuwuzhichi/jishuwenzhang/175/ and http://www.osonled.com/2835-vs-3014-vs-3528/ and http://www.rs-led.cc/siteen/xwzx/1956.html?cid=107.
Just google 5050 vs 2835 and you will get more info. Looks like the 2835 is the brightest with the largest surface area for heat dissipation as well. I ordered a strip of cool white 2835 on ebay that has 120 LEDs a meter which is the higher density strip. It arrives on Monday so I'll post my findings after that. 

That said, I also found these on amazon - Gled® 5pcs 10w Grow Light Bars Light Strip for Hydroponic Plant Flowers Vegatables Greens Led Grow Plant Growing(2.5m,27red+9blue) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00N3HU908/ref=cm_sw_r_awd_ZEN7ub1Y80CBD. They are reasonably priced but I wonder if anyone has tried these with the normal whites. 

Cheers,
Hari

Bump: This one from Wikipedia says it all

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMD_LED_Module


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

haril said:


> Bump: This one from Wikipedia says it all
> 
> http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMD_LED_Module


needs a visual:


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## Quizcat (Dec 21, 2014)

You're referring to the Current Brand fixture with respect to the RED deficiency, right? I didn't consider that about the RED being on the other end of the spectrum. 

Why would they design an LED light intended for Marine Environments, like Coral and Live Rock, to be deficient in RED? I suppose their intention is to address the requirements of coral and live rock, versus freshwater plants. In that case, it would make some sense if the Coral and Live Rock don't require much RED. I don't know anything about nourishing coral and live rock. Fact is, I purchased the Current LED light before I know much of anything. I liked the bells and whistles, but hadn't gotten deeply into the technicalities. And, at the time, I wasn't really messing with live plants, but wanted to illuminate the glowfish more than anything. 



jeffkrol said:


> 12000k and 8000k LED are LOW in red . you don't get a healthy dose till you go 4000k or below...your light is "arguably" red deficient..


Back to my home made LED strip light fixture...

In an effort to understand the color temperature scale as it relates to fresh water live plant nourishment, is there more "RED" in the Warm White LEDs (3000K), than what I am delivering from leaving all (144) RED LEDs on at full intensity? 

Do you think I would I be better off leaving the Warm Whites (3000K) on at full intensity, and the Cool Whites (6500K) on at full intensity, rather than supplementing the Cool Whites (6500K) with the RED LEDs on a full intensity?


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Quizcat said:


> You're referring to the Current Brand fixture with respect to the RED deficiency, right? I didn't consider that about the RED being on the other end of the spectrum.
> 
> Why would they design an LED light intended for Marine Environments, like Coral and Live Rock, to be deficient in RED? I suppose their intention is to address the requirements of coral and live rock, versus freshwater plants. In that case, it would make some sense if the Coral and Live Rock don't require much RED. I don't know anything about nourishing coral and live rock. Fact is, I purchased the Current LED light before I know much of anything. I liked the bells and whistles, but hadn't gotten deeply into the technicalities. And, at the time, I wasn't really messing with live plants, but wanted to illuminate the glowfish more than anything.
> 
> ...












Warm white red line:









As to a direct answer to your question.. probably.. definitely you get a better spectrum (wider bandwidth)

Red has poor depth penetration.. being absorbed fast. They do reef tanks based on that premise..


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## Quizcat (Dec 21, 2014)

Yeah, I guess the brighter the better. Are the 2835s available in a strip light configuration, or do you have to mount the emitters yourself? 

With (8) strips of SMD505, I really can't complain that the SMD5050s aren't bright enough in that concentration. If it's putting out at least 3+ Watts per gallon, since I don't have a PAR meter, I hope that will be more than adequate for the live plants I have in the 20 Gallon tank.

Actually, I also made a CFL light, replacing the flourescent tube in a standard tank top fixture, using two mini CFLs (6500K), for a ten gallon tank, and that fixture seems almost too bright to me. 








CFL Light Fixture with (2) CFL Minis (6500K)








10 Gallon Tank with CFL Fixture








CFL Fixture (Right)
Homemade LED Strip Light Fixture (Left)

Notice how the 20 gallon tank on the left, which has Cool White (6500K)/Red LEDs, both on at full intensity. I prefer the "look" of the strip lighting in the tank to the CFLs. It just seems a little more pleasing to the eye. Technically, the strip light is delivering a little less wattage to the 20 gallon tank than the (2) CFLs, which I believe are 25 Watts each. But, the look, at least to my eye, is much more pleasing. And, of course, the adjustability of the strip light is so much nicer, being able to activate the blues, or the greens, or the Warm Whites, etc...






haril said:


> Nice project Quizcat. I have been researching LED strips as well to supplement my FugeRay and have finally decided to get the 2835 LEDs instead of the 5050s. I got a strip of the 5050s and felt they are not bright enough. I came across some articles comparing the 2835 like http://www.topledvision.com/led/en/fuwuzhichi/jishuwenzhang/175/ and http://www.osonled.com/2835-vs-3014-vs-3528/ and http://www.rs-led.cc/siteen/xwzx/1956.html?cid=107.
> Just google 5050 vs 2835 and you will get more info. Looks like the 2835 is the brightest with the largest surface area for heat dissipation as well. I ordered a strip of cool white 2835 on ebay that has 120 LEDs a meter which is the higher density strip. It arrives on Monday so I'll post my findings after that.
> 
> That said, I also found these on amazon - Gled® 5pcs 10w Grow Light Bars Light Strip for Hydroponic Plant Flowers Vegatables Greens Led Grow Plant Growing(2.5m,27red+9blue) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00N3HU908/ref=cm_sw_r_awd_ZEN7ub1Y80CBD. They are reasonably priced but I wonder if anyone has tried these with the normal whites.
> ...


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Quizcat said:


> But, the look, at least to my eye, is much more pleasing. And, of course, the adjustability of the strip light is so much nicer, being able to activate the blues, or the greens, or the Warm Whites, etc...


yep... 


Technically the easiest thing to do is a 50/50 warm white cool white strips w/ ind. dimmers.. Nothing wrong w/ RGB.. and it has advantages..


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## Quizcat (Dec 21, 2014)

I just checked the Current Brand Marine LED fixture's Manual again, and apparently it does deliver some Red. They claim it delivers 445nm of Red, and 460nm of blue. The White range is 8000K-12,000K. Now I worry that the Current Brand Fixture is too far off the charts to deliver a full range spectrum of light for fresh water plants, versus what it's intended to do, marine corals and live rock. 




jeffkrol said:


> Warm white red line:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Quizcat (Dec 21, 2014)

What I question is that at 3000K, according to the chart, the RED is flat lined at 3000K. According the specs for SMD5050, Red is rated at 620-630nm. So, wouldn't that mean that I am better off running the Cool White LEDs at full intensity, and REDs at full intensity? I question the penetration ratio for the REDs versus the Warm Whites. But, I am concerned that at 3000K, the Warm Whites wouldn't be delivering any RED to the tank. 






jeffkrol said:


> yep...
> 
> 
> Technically the easiest thing to do is a 50/50 warm white cool white strips w/ ind. dimmers.. Nothing wrong w/ RGB.. and it has advantages..


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## Quizcat (Dec 21, 2014)

As a point of comparison, here are photos of the Cool Whites/Reds on a full intensity, and the Cool Whites/Warm Whites on a full intensity. 














I would like to be able to vary the intensity of the individual colors (RGB+Warm White), independent of one another. But, the IR controller is limited in that way. It's either one color or the other, selecting variable intensity for whichever color is on. For example, you can't vary the intensity of each independent of the other, ie: 10% green, 10% Blue, 50% Red, and 30% Warm White. It's all or nothing with varying intensity for each color, All Red, All Green, All Blue, or All Warm White on at one time. 

The Cool White LEDs do have independent adjustment 0-100%, and are not effected by the colors RGBW, so that's a good thing, since you want to always deliver 6500K to the tank through the Cool White LEDs.


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## haril (Feb 17, 2015)

The 2835s are available as a strip reel just like the 5050s in both waterproof and non-waterproof versions. I ordered it off e-b-a-y.

With the 5050s I tried one full reel (16 feet) that had 300 LEDs. May be I wasnt pumping enough power into it. I used a 12 volt 2 amp power supply because the strip was rated at 24 watts.

The 2835 strip I ordered has 600 LEDs for the same 16 foot length, double the density and much higher lumen. I will have to get a better power supply as well. So lets see how that goes.

Did you check the grow light thing I mentioned in Amazon?

Cheers,
Hari



Quizcat said:


> Yeah, I guess the brighter the better. Are the 2835s available in a strip light configuration, or do you have to mount the emitters yourself?
> 
> With (8) strips of SMD505, I really can't complain that the SMD5050s aren't bright enough in that concentration. If it's putting out at least 3+ Watts per gallon, since I don't have a PAR meter, I hope that will be more than adequate for the live plants I have in the 20 Gallon tank.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Quizcat said:


> since you want to always deliver 6500K to the tank through the Cool White LEDs.


There is no "magic" K rating...


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## haril (Feb 17, 2015)

Ok, I did a quick very rough experiment with my 5050s. I bought them waterproofed but realized that they are so much brighter when I remove the silicon coating. I will anyway rest them on top of plexi glass and not direct over the water. I had some old aluminium window blinds lying around. I took one blind out and cut it to the length of my tank and stuck the LEDs (around 150 of them) on the concave side. I wired it up to the power supply and it seems to work really well. I will just need to make sure I finish the end product better. But this seems to be pretty good and aluminium blind acts as a nice heatsink as well. The brightness is not great but it adds some light to the shadow areas of the FugeRay on the front of the tank. Here are some images to what I tried :

















Resting on top of my acrylic tank in the front of a FugeRay








I am sure the 2835s will work out much better when they arrive and I am going to try a similar setup with those.



haril said:


> The 2835s are available as a strip reel just like the 5050s in both waterproof and non-waterproof versions. I ordered it off e-b-a-y.
> 
> With the 5050s I tried one full reel (16 feet) that had 300 LEDs. May be I wasnt pumping enough power into it. I used a 12 volt 2 amp power supply because the strip was rated at 24 watts.
> 
> ...


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## Quizcat (Dec 21, 2014)

Hey, I like your idea with the blinds! The photos look like they will work out very nicely as a supplement to your Fugeray. I left the coating on the SMD5050s in my fixture. I didn't know whether I would need the waterproofing or not at the time. Turns out that I did not. There's a glass partition between the gutter and the base of the old florescent fixture. So, it doesn't get wet after all. Did you have any trouble adhering the strips to the blinds? The backing on the strips leaves a lot to be desired. Mine said it was 3M backing, but I suspect it's some kind of pirated Chinese 3M knock off. 



haril said:


> Ok, I did a quick very rough experiment with my 5050s. I bought them waterproofed but realized that they are so much brighter when I remove the silicon coating. I will anyway rest them on top of plexi glass and not direct over the water. I had some old aluminium window blinds lying around. I took one blind out and cut it to the length of my tank and stuck the LEDs (around 150 of them) on the concave side. I wired it up to the power supply and it seems to work really well. I will just need to make sure I finish the end product better. But this seems to be pretty good and aluminium blind acts as a nice heatsink as well. The brightness is not great but it adds some light to the shadow areas of the FugeRay on the front of the tank. Here are some images to what I tried :
> 
> View attachment 436929
> 
> ...


No, but 6500K is about as close to perfection as I'm ever going to get designing these make shift low cost fixtures. 



jeffkrol said:


> There is no "magic" K rating...


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## haril (Feb 17, 2015)

After I removed the silicon waterproofing it was easier to press the strip firmly on to the aluminium. It has parts of the 3M logo on it but I doubt its original. So far so good and it is sticking well but can be pealed off without trouble.

BTW what are the details for your power supply? Are you using 12V or 24V? I am powering the 150 LED setup with a 12V 1.5 A and there was no difference when I tried it with a 12V 3 A one. However the brightness vastly improved with a 18V 2 A supply but the aluminium was getting a bit too hot to touch. I want to get the best power supply for the 2835s when they arrive to get the most brightness out of them without burning out their life too much. The sellers specs say it is 36W for the strip which contains 600 LEDs. I doubt these specs as the LEDs themselves are supposed to be rated at 0.2 watts each which should translate to 120 Watts for 600 LEDs across 16.5 feet.

Cheers,
Hari

Oh BTW, the color of the LED turned a bit warmer after I removed the silicon waterproofing. It was more bluish with the waterproofing and it is closer to the whites now on the FugeRay.



Quizcat said:


> Hey, I like your idea with the blinds! The photos look like they will work out very nicely as a supplement to your Fugeray. I left the coating on the SMD5050s in my fixture. I didn't know whether I would need the waterproofing or not at the time. Turns out that I did not. There's a glass partition between the gutter and the base of the old florescent fixture. So, it doesn't get wet after all. Did you have any trouble adhering the strips to the blinds? The backing on the strips leaves a lot to be desired. Mine said it was 3M backing, but I suspect it's some kind of pirated Chinese 3M knock off.


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## Quizcat (Dec 21, 2014)

Actually, with respect to RED line on the chart, I think I was mistaken with respect to where the RED begins to kick-in. It doesn't look like it "flat lines" at 3000K, but it looks like it starts to kick-in at a little less than 3000K. But, I don't really see what "nm" value to assign it at 3000K, and it starts dropping back off again pretty quickly. Not sure how to interpret the graph. 



jeffkrol said:


>


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

haril said:


> After I removed the silicon waterproofing it was easier to press the strip firmly on to the aluminium. It has parts of the 3M logo on it but I doubt its original. So far so good and it is sticking well but can be pealed off without trouble.
> 
> BTW what are the details for your power supply? Are you using 12V or 24V? I am powering the 150 LED setup with a 12V 1.5 A and there was no difference when I tried it with a 12V 3 A one. However the brightness vastly improved with a 18V 2 A supply but the aluminium was getting a bit too hot to touch. I want to get the best power supply for the 2835s when they arrive to get the most brightness out of them without burning out their life too much. The sellers specs say it is 36W for the strip which contains 600 LEDs. I doubt these specs as the LEDs themselves are supposed to be rated at 0.2 watts each which should translate to 120 Watts for 600 LEDs across 16.5 feet.
> 
> ...


you will burn "something" out w/ 24V..pretty much guaranteed.. I'm surprised you didn't at 18V..


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## Quizcat (Dec 21, 2014)

I am using the 110 VAC to 12Vdc power supply, rated at 6 Amps, designed for a computer monitor. 

I had tried a number of old transformers that I had lying around in the hobby room. I first started at around 12Vdc 2 Amps, but found that it got too hot. I had one of them burn up on me, not literally, but it stopped working from too much heat. Got just a little too hot for comfort to the touch, but even then, it lasted a couple of weeks.

I finally went to the 12Vdc 6 Amp, it seems to power the entire strip very easily, 288 LEDs, (had 8" left over from the 16.5' strip), without it getting even luke warm. It has been on there for several weeks. It's on a simple lamp timer, on 12 hours a day, then off for 12 hours at night. When it comes back on, the controller holds right on the color selection that it was on the night before, when it went off at night, no resetting anything when it comes back on.

They're available on Amazon.com. I opted not to order one from China...to impatient to wait for it. Came from Amazon's warehouse in about 2 days, but I'm sure it was made in China. Perhaps if I ordered one that was 24 VDC, it would increase my intensity as well. But, I would need to be careful about generating too much heat with respect to the way mine are mounted in the gutter. But, as it is now, the heat factor is almost non-existent. And, yes, I agree, the aluminum acts very well as a heat sink. 

Amazon.com: 12v 6a Adapter Power Supply for LCD Monitor with Power Cord: Electronics



haril said:


> After I removed the silicon waterproofing it was easier to press the strip firmly on to the aluminium. It has parts of the 3M logo on it but I doubt its original. So far so good and it is sticking well but can be pealed off without trouble.
> 
> BTW what are the details for your power supply? Are you using 12V or 24V? I am powering the 150 LED setup with a 12V 1.5 A and there was no difference when I tried it with a 12V 3 A one. However the brightness vastly improved with a 18V 2 A supply but the aluminium was getting a bit too hot to touch. I want to get the best power supply for the 2835s when they arrive to get the most brightness out of them without burning out their life too much. The sellers specs say it is 36W for the strip which contains 600 LEDs. I doubt these specs as the LEDs themselves are supposed to be rated at 0.2 watts each which should translate to 120 Watts for 600 LEDs across 16.5 feet.
> 
> ...


----------



## haril (Feb 17, 2015)

Yup, I plan to use the 12V 6A one from Amazon as well but I was just wondering if I could push the LEDs a bit more for brightness. Moreover, since my strip is going to have 600 LEDs instead of the 300 as yours, shouldn't I be shooting for more wattage (120 Watts) ?



Quizcat said:


> I am using the 110 VAC to 12Vdc power supply, rated at 6 Amps, designed for a computer monitor.
> 
> I had tried a number of old transformers that I had lying around in the hobby room. I first started at around 12Vdc 2 Amps, but found that it got too hot. I had one of them burn up on me, not literally, but it stopped working from too much heat. Got just a little too hot for comfort to the touch, but even then, it lasted a couple of weeks.
> 
> ...


----------



## Quizcat (Dec 21, 2014)

I think it would depend on the particular specs of what you purchased. In my case, I believe the controller accepts 12-24Vdc. But, the strip is specifically rated at 12Vdc. I suspect there may be current and voltage limiting circuitry in the controller that wouldn't permit me to drive the strip to 24Vdc through the controller. The intensity of the LEDs is limited by the controller. 

Maybe it would burn the LED circuitry out were 24Vdc to be directly connected to the strip. In the case of my fixture, everything runs through the controller. That's the simplistic beauty of the strip light used with an IR controller made for strip lights, but it also has some limitations. 

Haril, what is the size of the tank you are lighting up? I have calculated that my strip light, consisting of (288) SMD5050 LEDs, should be putting out a little over 1900 lumens at full intensity. How many lumens are you shooting for, and what will a strip light of 600 LEDs yield based on the wattage per LED in your strip? In my case, I had to estimate the lumens produced by my strip...all they provided me with in the specs on my strip was that the full length of the strip produces 72 watts. I had to back into the lumens calculation myself. 



haril said:


> Yup, I plan to use the 12V 6A one from Amazon as well but I was just wondering if I could push the LEDs a bit more for brightness. Moreover, since my strip is going to have 600 LEDs instead of the 300 as yours, shouldn't I be shooting for more wattage (120 Watts) ?


----------



## haril (Feb 17, 2015)

Its a 37 gallon (36L x 15W x 16H inches) tank. I don't really have a lumens target number but I am trying to achieve the intensity of the FugeRay or at least as close to it as possible. For my eyes the 5050s dont cut it out and I dont have a PAR meter to check exact difference. The FugeRay is just fine for my tank depth but the light cone cuts off light towards the front and back of the tank especially near the surface and I want to compensate for that. Here's my tank lit by the FugeRay, you really cant make out the slightly dimmer light near the front and back edges tho. Just completed planting a few days ago, so waiting to grow out. The echinodorus tenellus is already throwing out runners so seems OK for now and I can see new shoots in the B.Japonica as well in the left front corner.

My plan is to have 2 sets of the 2835s - one in the front and one behind the FugeRay sitting in the middle. Each set would have 300 LEDs as I am getting the 120 LEDs per meter one. This maybe an overkill with the FugeRay, but I can only confirm after they arrive and I test it.









Cheers,
Hari



Quizcat said:


> I think it would depend on the particular specs of what you purchased. In my case, I believe the controller accepts 12-24Vdc. But, the strip is specifically rated at 12Vdc. I suspect there may be current and voltage limiting circuitry in the controller that wouldn't permit me to drive the strip to 24Vdc through the controller. Maybe it would burn the LED circuitry out were 24Vdc to be directly connected to the strip. In the case of my fixture, everything runs through the controller. That's the simplistic beauty of the strip light used with an IR controller made for strip lights, but it also has some limitations.
> 
> Haril, what was the size of the tank you are lighting up? I have calculated that my strip light, 288 SMD5050 LEDs, should be putting out a little over 1900 lumens at full intensity I believe. How many lumens are you shooting for?


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## haril (Feb 17, 2015)

Here is an overhead shot of the FugeRay (top) and 5050 strip (bottom) reflecting off the water. The FugeRay is obviously has more densely configured LEDs and they are much brighter individually. The shot doesnt do justice because the FugeRay was at a larger angle with moving water. It is actually much brighter than this. Sigh, the wait for the 2835s is painful. :icon_sad:











haril said:


> Its a 37 gallon (36L x 15W x 16H inches) tank. I don't really have a lumens target number but I am trying to achieve the intensity of the FugeRay or at least as close to it as possible. For my eyes the 5050s dont cut it out and I dont have a PAR meter to check exact difference. The FugeRay is just fine for my tank depth but the light cone cuts off light towards the front and back of the tank especially near the surface and I want to compensate for that. Here's my tank lit by the FugeRay, you really cant make out the slightly dimmer light near the front and back edges tho. Just completed planting a few days ago, so waiting to grow out. The echinodorus tenellus is already throwing out runners so seems OK for now and I can see new shoots in the B.Japonica as well in the left front corner.
> 
> My plan is to have 2 sets of the 2835s - one in the front and one behind the FugeRay sitting in the middle. Each set would have 300 LEDs as I am getting the 120 LEDs per meter one. This maybe an overkill with the FugeRay, but I can only confirm after they arrive and I test it.
> 
> ...


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## walzon1 (Jan 28, 2014)

Just wanted to reply and say me and a friend have been using these on our tanks for years now they work great. I haven't had any algae issues with the 5050s 3528s or 3014s in the white, cool white color temperatures and they all grow plants well. I have however did a build with half white half RGB and started having algae issues, when the RGB's are off no problems. Not sure if the issue is too much light when the RGBs are on or there is a color temperature issue with the RGB lights that are causing algae outbreaks. Just something to keep in mind if you start having problems.


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## haril (Feb 17, 2015)

I just got the 2835 strip with 120 LEDs per meter totaling to 600 LEDs and just wired them up and boy are they bright!!!! They are way way brighter than the 5050s and I don't see much heat either. I'll try and put a comparison photo of them shortly but this works perfect for me to add on the front and back sides of my tank where the FugeRay light cone doesn't shed enuf light. It's going to be 300 LEDs in the front and 300 at the back. 

Cheers,
Hari


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## Quizcat (Dec 21, 2014)

This is a photo of the LEDs that are in my Current Orbit Marine LED light fixture. The round LEDs in the Current fixture seem to resemble what you have in your Fugeray fixture with respect to size. I can't tell from each of the respective photos, but these look as bright, or perhaps even a little brighter versus the Fugeray, but it may just be the photos. The photo doesn't illustrate which of the LEDS, square or round, are the blue ones versus the white ones. But, I think the white ones are square, and the blue ones are round (not in a positioin to actually look at the fixture as I write this). The photo was taken around noon, and it's on a twelve hour schedule. The timer schedule has the LEDs coming on with a very slow increasing intensity in the theoretical morning, increasing intensity of blue until full intensity is acheived, incrementally the white comes on during this process, coming on gradually with full intensity white + blue over the course of an hour or so. The LEDs are all brightest in the afternoon, and then the start to wind down in the late afternoon. By very late afternoon, the whites have gradually diminished to nothing, and you can see the blue intensity still on, (moon light?) diminishing over time until it goes completely off. It is programmable so that you can have moon light on all night in whatever intensity your choose, but I prefer it to go completely off. There is enough ambient light once the fixture is off to simlulate a mild intensity moon light scenario in that particular room at night anyway. 

Are these 2835s or an equivalent intensity to 2835s? How did your 2835 strip light work out Haril? Any photos yet?











haril said:


> I just got the 2835 strip with 120 LEDs per meter totaling to 600 LEDs and just wired them up and boy are they bright!!!!


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## haril (Feb 17, 2015)

The LEDs look squarish from your picture but cannot say for sure unless you measure their size. 2835s are 28mm by 35mm. The FugeRay ones measure around 4mm x 1.5mm and they are brighter than the 2835 one on one. The photo I put up was a reflection off the water and those were not 2835s. 

The 2835s are working really well for me. The strip with 600 LEDs that split in two are brighter than my 36 inch FugeRay. I power each 300 led set with a 12v 1.5 A supply. I changed from my co2 ladder to a ceramic diffuser and with this light setup my plants are pearling like crazy. I wish I had a PAR meter but I am pretty sure it's close to 2 to 2.5 times FugeRay in total for the tank. I'll put up a photo shortly. I have them on a single timer for 9 hours a day. I'll probably get a ramp up down timer some day. 



Quizcat said:


> This is a photo of the LEDs that are in my Current Orbit Marine LED light fixture. The round LEDs in the Current fixture seem to resemble what you have in your Fugeray fixture with respect to size. I can't tell from each of the respective photos, but these look as bright, or perhaps even a little brighter versus the Fugeray, but it may just be the photos. The photo doesn't illustrate which of the LEDS, square or round, are the blue ones versus the white ones. But, I think the white ones are square, and the blue ones are round (not in a positioin to actually look at the fixture as I write this). The photo was taken around noon, and it's on a twelve hour schedule. The timer schedule has the LEDs coming on with a very slow increasing intensity in the theoretical morning, increasing intensity of blue until full intensity is acheived, incrementally the white comes on during this process, coming on gradually with full intensity white + blue over the course of an hour or so. The LEDs are all brightest in the afternoon, and then the start to wind down in the late afternoon. By very late afternoon, the whites have gradually diminished to nothing, and you can see the blue intensity still on, (moon light?) diminishing over time until it goes completely off. It is programmable so that you can have moon light on all night in whatever intensity your choose, but I prefer it to go completely off. There is enough ambient light once the fixture is off to simlulate a mild intensity moon light scenario in that particular room at night anyway.
> 
> Are these 2835s or an equivalent intensity to 2835s? How did your 2835 strip light work out Haril? Any photos yet?
> 
> View attachment 442450


----------



## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

haril said:


> I just got the 2835 strip with 120 LEDs per meter totaling to 600 LEDs and just wired them up and boy are they bright!!!!


Would like to know more about you hooked it. Could you make a thread on it so as to not hyjack this thread?


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## haril (Feb 17, 2015)

Hi Quizcat,

Here's a photo of one of the 2835 strips along side the FugeRay:








Heres a photo looking up to the surface from the left side of the tank. Probably gives you an idea of the brightness of the LEDs. The one in the middle is the FugeRay. The two on the sides are 300 2835 strips each. (Yeah thats all the crazy pearling happening   )








I'll start another fresh thread about how I built my light strips. Unfortunately I dont have photos along the way as I built it but it is super simple. So watch out for that.

Cheers,
Hari



haril said:


> The LEDs look squarish from your picture but cannot say for sure unless you measure their size. 2835s are 28mm by 35mm. The FugeRay ones measure around 4mm x 1.5mm and they are brighter than the 2835 one on one. The photo I put up was a reflection off the water and those were not 2835s.
> 
> The 2835s are working really well for me. The strip with 600 LEDs that split in two are brighter than my 36 inch FugeRay. I power each 300 led set with a 12v 1.5 A supply. I changed from my co2 ladder to a ceramic diffuser and with this light setup my plants are pearling like crazy. I wish I had a PAR meter but I am pretty sure it's close to 2 to 2.5 times FugeRay in total for the tank. I'll put up a photo shortly. I have them on a single timer for 9 hours a day. I'll probably get a ramp up down timer some day.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

haril said:


> Hi Quizcat,
> Here's a photo of one of the 2835 strips along side the FugeRay:
> View attachment 443538


What did you attach the strips to?


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## Quizcat (Dec 21, 2014)

I actually ordered a strip of 2835s in Cool White, and a strip of RGB 2835s. The strip of cool white 2835s is 16.5' long. I also ordered the standard IR controller, the same type that I am using with the SMD5050s, along with a 12Vdc 6Amp power supply, same type as before. 

I had a hard time even finding 2835s in RGB. There were only two offered on Ebay, one at a ridiculously high price, and the other was reasonable. I think the RGB strip I finallly ordered was only 3 Meters long, verses the customary 5 Meter long strip you get with 2835s and 5050s. But, I shouldn't really need too many of the RGBs in the fixture, since the RBGs are strictly for supplementing the Cool White LEDs with Red and Blue, Green being just an added bonus for visual effect. 

I am not sure I can pull it off, but I want to mix the Cool Whites and the RGBs through one controller. I am planning to cut and mount single strips of Cool White 2835s, mounting them in the same manor as I detailed for the SMD5050s, but this time for a fixture that's about 20" long, for a 10 gallon tank. I want to connect a few strips of cool whites, and add-in an indepedent strip or two of the RGBs, connecting the Cool Whites together in series, then connecting the indepedent RGB strips in series, and controlling them off of the one IR controller. I may end up having to use two IR Controllers, one for the Cool White strips, and one for the RGBs, but I may be able to do it off of one controller, and still have independent control of the colors and the Cool Whites. Some experimentation will reveal whether that's possible or not.

I am thinking that I'll need less 2835s than 5050s in this fixture because they are brighter, which should allow me to get away with only needing a few strips of 2835 in Cool White. Then, I want to add in just a few RGB strips to supplement. The reduced number of 2835 Cool Whites should allow more than enough room to also add-in some RGBs for supplementing Blue and Red. I think I calculated that a 20" strip would produce about 38 watts of Cool White (6500K) using the 2835s, which is more than enough for a 10 gallon tank. I should need much less of the RGBs than Cool Whites, just as a supplement to the Cool Whites, but I am not sure what that ratio of Red and Blue to Cool Whites should be in order to supplement whatever is missing from the Cool White temperature spectrum. 

Anybody have a suggestion as to how many theoretical WATTS of Red and Blue I should plan on adding to the fixture if I am just wanting to supplement the Cool White LEDs?





haril said:


> Hi Quizcat,
> 
> Here's a photo of one of the 2835 strips along side the FugeRay:
> View attachment 443538
> ...


----------



## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Quizcat said:


> I actually ordered a strip of 2835s in Cool White, and a strip of RGB 2835s.
> 
> I am not sure I can pull it off, but I want to mix the Cool Whites and the RGBs through one controller. This time for a fixture that's about 20" long, for a 10 gallon tank. I want to connect a few strips of cool whites, and add-in an indepedent strip or two of the RGBs, connecting them together in series, and controlling them off of the one IR controller. I may end up having to use two IR Controllers, one for the Cool Whites, and one for the RGBs.


Instead of 2 controllers how about using a Female 4 Pin Flexible LED Connector Cable Splitter to connect the whites and RGBs?


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## Quizcat (Dec 21, 2014)

Actually, I just checked again, and I was mistaken before, the White LEDs on the Current Orbit Marine Fixture are sqaure shaped, and the Blue LEDs appear to be round. 



haril said:


> The LEDs look squarish from your picture but cannot say for sure unless you measure their size. 2835s are 28mm by 35mm. The FugeRay ones measure around 4mm x 1.5mm and they are brighter than the 2835 one on one. The photo I put up was a reflection off the water and those were not 2835s.
> 
> The 2835s are working really well for me. The strip with 600 LEDs that split in two are brighter than my 36 inch FugeRay. I power each 300 led set with a 12v 1.5 A supply. I changed from my co2 ladder to a ceramic diffuser and with this light setup my plants are pearling like crazy. I wish I had a PAR meter but I am pretty sure it's close to 2 to 2.5 times FugeRay in total for the tank. I'll put up a photo shortly. I have them on a single timer for 9 hours a day. I'll probably get a ramp up down timer some day.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

haril said:


> I'll probably get a ramp up down timer some day.


I wonder where you can buy those and what the price is? For I can't find it googling.


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## Quizcat (Dec 21, 2014)

Well, yes, my preference is to have just one controller that would operate the Cool Whites and the RGBs, but independently have them turned on simultaneously. 

Using the 5-pin harness I already have, I should be able to wire it up so I have independent control of the Cool Whites, and independent control of the RGBs, but also have the Cool Whites and RED or Blue on at the same time, through one IR controller, just as I have now on the SMD5050 fixture. 

On the 40-key RGBWW IR remote control there is the ability to control RGBW(Warm White) independent of controlling the Cool Whites in the SMD5050 strip. 

The connection points on the 5-pin harness are labeled:
(+) (Positive)
(B) (Blue or Warm White through one emitter)
(R) (Red or Warm White through one emitter)
(G) (Green or Warm White through one emitter)
(W)This is the connection point for COOL WHITE, giving you control of Cool White independent of the Colors and Warm White.

In the RGBWW SMD5050 strip, which is what I am using in the gutter fixture I built, using the same 40-key IR controller I have for RGBW(Warm White)+ W(Cool White) strip, the "RGBW" LEDs each have a "White" emmiter in them, so that Warm White color is produced within the same LED as the RGB LEDs. The Connection points for RGB also produce Warm White, independent of the (W) connection point, which controls the Cool White LEDs. 

I am thinking that if I connect the (W) side to the Cool White 2835s, and the RGB 2835s to their respective color connections, I should should be able to power everything off of the one controller/power supply, and have Cool Whites on at the same time that I have at least one of the RGB colors on. The IR controller for RGBW(Warm) + W(Cool) gives you independent intensity control of the Cool White LEDs, and independent intensity control of the RGBW(Warm)s. 

With the 20-key IR controllers that are only 4-pin, which are intended for RGBW(Warm), you would only have control of one of the emitter colors being on one at a time, White or Red or Blue or Green, and you couldn't mix the Cool White and RGB so that a Cool White and one of the colors is on at the same time. The 20-key RGBW IR controllers don't have selections on them that allow for independent control of the colors plus White. 

With the 5-Pin 40-key Controller, you have that extra leg to connect to that will allow you to connect, and independently control, the Cool White strips of 2835s, so you can have both the Cool Whites, and at least one of the colors, on at the same time so that with RED or BLUE you can simultaneously supplement color temperature. 

But, I suspect that if you wired all of it up to one of the color connection points, you could have all of it on, Cool Whites, Blue, and Red, all on at the same time at full intensity. So, in that circumstance, the 4-pin RGBW controller would work fine. 

But, since I already have the 5-pin harness, and the 40 key RGBWW controller, I should be able to independently control the the Cool Whites from the colors. 




Hilde said:


> Instead of 2 controllers how about using a Female 4 Pin Flexible LED Connector Cable Splitter to connect the whites and RGBs?


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## haril (Feb 17, 2015)

Hilde said:


> I wonder where you can buy those and what the price is? For I can't find it googling.


Here you go :
Amazon.com : Current USA Single Ramp Timer for Aquarium : Pet Supplies

Bump: I just wanted to post that I removed one of the 300 set of 2835s. It turns out that 2 sets of these with the FugeRay is too much light for my tank and the algae is getting the upper hand. I have removed one of the 2835 strips and now have just the FugeRay and one set of 300 2835s resting equidistant on top of the tank. The tank still looks bright as my CFL days. I wish I had a PAR meter because its very difficult to judge by the eye especially when you have black gravel. The LEDs cannot be trusted with a standard set of 2835 specs as they are made by many manufactures in high and low quality.


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## haril (Feb 17, 2015)

Hilde said:


> What did you attach the strips to?


I just stuck the strips to an aluminium window blind and rest it on top of my tank which has a broad acrylic frame on top. You can see it in one of the photos in my tank journal. (in my signature)


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

haril said:


> Here you go :
> Amazon.com : Current USA Single Ramp Timer for Aquarium : Pet Supplies


Thanks!! I saved that to a folder on PC.


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## Quizcat (Dec 21, 2014)

I wonder if the ramp timer can be connected to the 40-key IR controller I'm using now. Right now, I have it connected to a standard lamp timer, and it comes on in the morning, after turning off during the night, without any effect upon the way the light was set when the lamp timer turned the light off. 

But, it would be nice to ramp-up and ramp-down instead of turning on and off so abruptly each time... 

How do you have your ramp timer connected up? Maybe I can adapt it to my set-up even using the 40 key IR Controller...





haril said:


> Here you go :
> Amazon.com : Current USA Single Ramp Timer for Aquarium : Pet Supplies


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Quizcat said:


> I wonder if the ramp timer can be connected to the 40-key IR controller I'm using now. Right now, I have it connected to a standard lamp timer, and it comes on in the morning, after turning off during the night, without any effect upon the way the light was set when the lamp timer turned the light off.
> 
> But, it would be nice to ramp-up and ramp-down instead of turning on and off so abruptly each time...
> 
> How do you have your ramp timer connected up? Maybe I can adapt it to my set-up even using the 40 key IR Controller...



Just wire this to the strips like the orig. controller..

http://www.dx.com/p/tc420-1-4-led-p...-black-12-24v-140cm-cable-269307#.VP-bO7GmXnc

4A per channel (48W @12V)


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## ahem (Dec 27, 2014)

Just read through your thread Quizcat, excellent work. I wasn't aware of these strip lights and have been evaluating a number of accent lighting options to make light transitions. I've been playing with TrueLumen strips but they are quite expensive for what you get. I see a roll of what you used on amazon for like $15, wow. 

Another way to have a ramp up is to not wire the whole thing in series but have a number of parallel light strips or pairs of them connected to timers (timers are pretty cheap, mechanical are < $4 amazon and 10 setting 24x7 digitals with battery backup are only $15). Then stagger the power on and off for the strips. Of course it probably requires more power supplies and remotes so might not be economical way to go. I use the concept currently to get color transitions from moonlight, twilight, sunrise/sunset, late morning/early evening, full sun and partly cloudy using the little TrueLumen light bars, a special moonlight, and a MarineLand hidden Red accent.


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## Quizcat (Dec 21, 2014)

Yes, I saw that before, and thanks for reminding me...I think you recommended it in the beginning of the thread. I guess it does't have a remote. But, once it's on a timer that can ramp up and down, I guess who needs a remote, right? 

The IR remote is kind of cool, but the novelty begins to wear off after a time, and eventually you start to realize that it has it's limitations if you don't want to be constantly having to monitor the lighting schedule. 

The 40 Key IR Controller is around $10.00 (I think), so it probably would be a better investment to plow the money into this device instead of an IR remote. 

I suppose it will use the same power supply that's powering the IR Controller, the 12Vdc/6Amp (Computer Monitor Style) Power Supply that I'm using now? 



jeffkrol said:


> Just wire this to the strips like the orig. controller..
> 
> http://www.dx.com/p/tc420-1-4-led-p...-black-12-24v-140cm-cable-269307#.VP-bO7GmXnc
> 
> 4A per channel (48W @12V)


Yeah, thanks, and I hope you can get some use out of my experimentation efforts... 

Haril brought up the prospect of using SMD2835s, and that might be a better choice than the SMD5050s. I held off on ordering them in Cool White after he brought them to my attention, just to see if I could locate an RGB SMD2835 strip, which I finally did, but they're scarce on E Bay. I like having the option of adding in the additional colors for the plants, not to mention visual selectivity. The SMD 2835s should be quite a bit brighter than the SMD5050s. But, I think it'll take a little experimentation to know what the "right" number of LEDs will be so that I don't overdose the tank. Haril has been down that road, and as Haril said, it's kind of like flying blind making these estimations about what amount of light is right for a particuar tank without the right equipment. I too wish I had a PAR meter... 



ahem said:


> Just read through your thread Quizcat, excellent work. I wasn't aware of these strip lights and have been evaluating a number of accent lighting options to make light transitions. I've been playing with TrueLumen strips but they are quite expensive for what you get. I see a roll of what you used on amazon for like $15, wow.
> 
> Another way to have a ramp up is to not wire the whole thing in series but have a number of parallel light strips or pairs of them connected to timers (timers are pretty cheap, mechanical are < $4 amazon and 10 setting 24x7 digitals with battery backup are only $15). Then stagger the power on and off for the strips. Of course it probably requires more power supplies and remotes so might not be economical way to go. I use the concept currently to get color transitions from moonlight, twilight, sunrise/sunset, late morning/early evening, full sun and partly cloudy using the little TrueLumen light bars, a special moonlight, and a MarineLand hidden Red accent.


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## haril (Feb 17, 2015)

A quick update that my plants are still pearling like crazy with one set of 2835s removed and I can kind of see that the light cone from the single 2835 strip at the back and the FugeRay towards the front of the tank is good. Here is a quick shot from the top to give you an idea:









Now to deal with that nasty hair algae which took advantage of the extra light. I am going to dose a small amount of Algaefix and remove the remaining 2835s as well till I get rid of the algae at least. I think the infestation came with the ludwigia from my over enthusiastic plant collecting hike. :hihi:

Cheers,
Hari


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

haril said:


> Now to deal with that nasty hair algae which took advantage of the extra light. I am going to dose a small amount of Algaefix and remove the remaining 2835s as well till I get rid of the algae at least. I think the infestation came with the ludwigia from my over enthusiastic plant collecting hike. :hihi:


Quizcat and haril are you injecting Co2?


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## Quizcat (Dec 21, 2014)

I am not dosing CO2...I would like to try it, and actually have a low tech kind of CO2 setup sitting in the cabinet, but I haven't tried it yet. I have the type that uses two soda/pop bottles, one with a valve on the one bottle, and a gauge on the other bottle opening. You are supposed to use Citric Acid/Water to create the CO2. I've had it for a while, but I've been kind of reluctant to experiment with it. I have a ceramic diffuser too, but suspect that the pressures generated by the low tech CO2 system wouldn't be sufficient to utilize it. I haven't taken the time to read-up on CO2 more to know whether I should have a different diffusser before playing with it...I suspect so. And...

I don't know...the low tech CO2 just seems a little messy to me, and I've had other aquarium related projects that have pushed the CO2 off of the agenda. If money were no consideration, I would like to go completely automated with CO2, and experiment with it. Another thing that serves as an obstacle are the iffy reviews I've been reading on the more reasonably priced regulators, which has me reluctant to move forward. And, if I did go with a better quality regulator, the cost of getting into CO2 is a little expensive for me just to experiment with it. The plants in the 20 gallon tank seem to be doing quite well without it so far. So, I've been putting it off just to see how they do without introducing C02. 

I do use Seachem Flourish Excel, but not daily, just a couple or times per week. I also dose Seachem Iron Supplement, primarily for the Ludwigia Repens. Everything is doing well in the 20 gallon tank, which has the home-made LED light fixture. Except, the hair grass is green, but it doesn't grow much, if at all. Fact is, I'm a bit disappointed in the hair grass not spreading out into a carpet. It just stays green, and doesn't really grow or spread. I might replace it with a more leafy plant some time, something easy. 

The 10 gallon tank, which has the two 25-watt CFLs, isn't doing as well as the 20 Gallon. I think I'm overdosing the light from the CFLs in the 10 Gallon, and it's making the Ludwigia Repens appear to have kind of a melted look, not lush like in the 20 gallon tank. On the other hand, the Java Moss really takes off in the 10 gallon tank. I have two different varieties of Java Moss, and they're doing great under the CFL lighting. 

I also have some "Dynamite Select" Slow Release Plant Fertilizer, which I have placed within some medical capsules that are pushed under the substrate. I probably started out with too many of them, around 5-6 capsules in my 10 and 20 Gallon tanks. I think those things elevate my Nitrate levels, and will probably let those expire in several months, rather than have elevated Nitrate levels in the water. I can do daily 50% water changes, and Nitrates never read less than 5-10ppm, even with a complete cleaning of the filters, and a thorough vacuuming of the substrate. Once they've completely disolved, I may put one or two in the tanks, but no more next time, if at all.




Hilde said:


> Quizcat and haril are you injecting Co2?


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Quizcat said:


> I am not dosing CO2...I would like to try it, and actually have a low tech kind of CO2 setup sitting in the cabinet, but I haven't tried it yet. I have the type that uses two soda/pop bottles, one with a valve on the one bottle, and a gauge on the other bottle opening. You are supposed to use Citric Acid/Water to create the CO2. I've had it for a while, but I've been kind of reluctant to experiment with it. I have a ceramic diffuser too, but suspect that the pressures generated by the low tech CO2 system wouldn't be sufficient to utilize it. I haven't taken the time to read-up on CO2 more to know whether I should have a different diffusser before playing with it...I suspect so.


Your tanks looks great. If it works don't change it is good motto. 

I am working on getting that Co2 system working. For I was forgetting to dose excel and BBA was starting up. I started using the ceramic diffuser. It gave off a low whining sound. Since I sit right by it the noise was irritating me. Thus I switched to the lime wood diffuser. They are only a few dollars on (ebay) Here are a few trying out DIY Co2 citric acid setup.


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## saiko (Mar 30, 2007)

haril said:


> Hi Quizcat,
> 
> Here's a photo of one of the 2835 strips along side the FugeRay:
> View attachment 443538


Hey, these look more of a 5630 than a 2835, any other opinion?
2835 is more squarish.


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## haril (Feb 17, 2015)

Yes I do. I use the Citric acid and baking soda solution. Works much better than the yeast method as it is very controllable. 



Hilde said:


> Quizcat and haril are you injecting Co2?


Bump: Those are 2835s. They look squarish next to the FugeRay LEDs. :icon_smil



saiko said:


> Hey, these look more of a 5630 than a 2835, any other opinion?
> 2835 is more squarish.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

haril said:


> Yes I do. I use the Citric acid and baking soda solution. Works much better than the yeast method as it is very controllable.


Oh yes, I just realize you are over on the thread trying out Citric Acid Co2.


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## haril (Feb 17, 2015)

YAHOO!! I am going to be able to rent the PAR meter from my local aquarium society and will soon run tests on my LED strips and post it.

Cheers,
Hari


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## Quizcat (Dec 21, 2014)

I made a SMD2835 LED Light for my ten gallon tank...There is a very small dead spot in the strip, consisting of three LEDs, .1 watts each, or it would have been slightly higher in wattage. But, it doesn't seem to make a discernable difference to the human eye anyway.









I estimate that it's delivering about 22.5 Watts of Cool White, 6500K. 

Here is a comparison of the SMD5050 fixture on the left, in the 20 Gallon Tank, versus the SMD2835 LED fixture in the ten gallon on the right. 









The fixture on the left contains (8) strips of SMD5050 RGB +Warm White + Cool White, and the fixture on the right contains just 4 strips x 18.5" long of SMD2835 Cool White only. The fixture on the left should be capable of delivering about 68 watts with everything turned on, not including natural losses, and about 34.5 watts with just the Cool Whites turned on. The fixture on the right is estimated to be delivering about 22.5 watts from the four strips of SMD2835 Cool Whites turned on. The SMD 2835s seem brighter to the human eye, but overall, I think the difference in intensity is primarily the difference between the way in which the water absorbs the light, 20 gallon tank versus a 10 gallon tank. But, you can seemingly get a lot more intensity out of fewer strips when using the SMD2835s versus the SMD5050s. 









I am not using a controller on the SMD2835 fixture (right), just connected it directly to the 12Vdc power supply. When I get the SMD2835 RGB strip from China, I may work in some RGB strips between the Cool White Strips, just to supplement the color temperature of the Cool White LEDs, but not many. Even though there is plenty of room to add at least four more strips of RGB. But, as you can see, just four strips x 18.5" of SMD2835 seems much brighter than all (8) strips of the RGBWW strip with Cool White only activated. Once the RGB strips are added, I may connect it all to an IR remote controller, or introduce one of the 5-Channel Dimmer/Timer Controllers. But, I am trying to start out conservatively. I don't want the fixture to be too bright by adding too much in the way of the supplemental RGB color, but I do like the idea of working in at least some blues and reds to augment what might be missing with respect to color temperature from the Cool Whites. I am also curious as to whether also adding a strip or two of warm whites might be helpful as well, just to balance things out, but I have no way of measuring the effects of adding that much light to the fixture, other than guessing, without having a PAR meter. 

I'm not sure what the optimum number of additional Blue/Red LEDs, or warm white, would be to make it most efficient for the plants, technically speaking. But, I guess I'll experiment since nobody seems to really know how many additional LEDs (.1 watt RGB) would be needed to make the fixture optimum with respect to the color temperature being delivered to the tank. But, since the penetration rates of the REDs and Blues should be quite a bit less, I speculate that I should be ok adding two strips of RGB to the fixture. Each of the SMD2835s is .1 watts each. So, if I add two strips of RGB SMD2835 strips, I would be adding 57 LEDs per 18.5" strip (5.7 Watts per additional RGB strip). So, if I add two strips of RGB to the Cool Whites, then the final fixture will be about 33.9 watts, but penetration rates of the REDs and Blues won't be equivalent to the Cool Whites, which is a good thing. But, I realize too that the way in which Cool Whites are processed by the plants, versus the Red/Blue LEDs, and/or adding warm whites; the actual effects of adding colors/warm white to the Cool Whites aren't easily quantitively measured. So, without a PAR meter, I'm strictly guessing on how to proceed with respect to adding color or warm white. 

But, I feel that even if I stop at adding just two strips of RGB to the fixture, making a total of about 34 watts of SMD2835, it will be far better than the (2) 25 watt (13 watt actual) CFLs I was using on the ten gallon tank, since two 25 watt CFLs seem to be having a negative effect upon the Ludwigia-Repens, causing it to turn almost a waxy appearance, holes forming in the leaves, brown algae on the glass, etc...I think the ten gallon tank has been under too much light, and it's effecting plant nutrition, and causing the brown algae...perhaps too much light effecting CO2 levels, etc... not sure exactly why, but I think it's definitely due to excessive CFL lighting. So, keeping the LED fixture around 34 Watts with the color added seems about right to me.


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## Quizcat (Dec 21, 2014)

Haril, 

Let us know what your readings reveal when you get the PAR meter. Even though I realize there are numerous variables between all of our different tanks, it will give us a bench mark to further guess as to what kind of PAR we can anticipate from the SMD2835s. We might be able to back into the number knowing your PAR readings, number of SMD2835s in your strips, your tank size, and depth of the water to the top of the substrate. 



haril said:


> YAHOO!! I am going to be able to rent the PAR meter from my local aquarium society and will soon run tests on my LED strips and post it.
> 
> Cheers,
> Hari


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## haril (Feb 17, 2015)

Nice work Quizcat but you may want to go easy with the 2835s. I am now using almost just one third of the LEDs I started off with, 216 2835 LEDs to be precise, which sit near the back of the tank while the FugeRay is sitting towards the front of the tank. The plants are still pearling and growing like crazy and I am getting an upper hand now with the hair algae outbreak. But note that these are sitting just 2 inches above the water surface on the acrylic brace frame.

The 600 LEDs I had in the start along with the FugeRay was just too much and I didn't realize it because of the dark gravel how much light was hitting the tank. I will be getting the PAR meter this weekend and will post the results after I run the tests but I now know for sure that the 216 2835 LEDs are just about perfect along side my FugeRay.

From the photos of the tank you posted I can see your tanks are not heavily planted and you will soon get an algae problem with that much light if your CO2 levels are not high enough for the plants to photosynthesize with that much light; of course you will need to have a lot of plants as well. Also, I realized how important circulation is and make sure you have plenty but not enough to blow your plants away. If you are using that much light, you will have to see a lot of pearling on all the leaves of your plants. My rotala and foreground plants leaves are usually just literally bubbling away. I will try and post a photo later today.

That said, brown algae is usually due to low light and if you see holes in the leaves of plants, its a potassium deficiency. 

Cheers,
Hari


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## haril (Feb 17, 2015)

Quizcat said:


> I am not dosing CO2...I would like to try it, and actually have a low tech kind of CO2 setup sitting in the cabinet, but I haven't tried it yet. I have the type that uses two soda/pop bottles, one with a valve on the one bottle, and a gauge on the other bottle opening. You are supposed to use Citric Acid/Water to create the CO2. I've had it for a while, but I've been kind of reluctant to experiment with it. I have a ceramic diffuser too, but suspect that the pressures generated by the low tech CO2 system wouldn't be sufficient to utilize it. I haven't taken the time to read-up on CO2 more to know whether I should have a different diffusser before playing with it...I suspect so. And...
> 
> I don't know...the low tech CO2 just seems a little messy to me, and I've had other aquarium related projects that have pushed the CO2 off of the agenda. If money were no consideration, I would like to go completely automated with CO2, and experiment with it. Another thing that serves as an obstacle are the iffy reviews I've been reading on the more reasonably priced regulators, which has me reluctant to move forward. And, if I did go with a better quality regulator, the cost of getting into CO2 is a little expensive for me just to experiment with it. The plants in the 20 gallon tank seem to be doing quite well without it so far. So, I've been putting it off just to see how they do without introducing C02.
> 
> ...


You should give that CO2 setup a shot, I have exactly that and it has been doing great. CO2 makes a huuuuuge difference for your plants, especially now that you are setting up LEDs. If you dont have enough CO2 and too much light you will be hit with algae issues. There is more than enough pressure in this system to handle ceramic and glass diffusers. 

50 watts of CFLs is plenty of light for a 10 gallon, in fact too much light in my opinion.

Your dwarf hair grass will not carpet well without CO2 and high lighting. An easier carpeting plant to try is the pygmy chain sword which spreads like crazy and should do well even without CO2 but I highly recommend giving your CO2 kit a go as you have nothing to lose. Trust me, you will see a big difference in a couple of weeks.

Cheers,
Hari


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## haril (Feb 17, 2015)

*PAR values*

Alrighty folks, I finally got my hands on a PAR meter and spent some time testing today morning. Note that I have one 36 inch FugeRay and one 36 inch aluminium blind with 2 rows of 2835 LEDs. The number of 2835 LEDs used is 210. I had first used 600 2835s with my FugeRay which was way too bright and now only use one strip of 210 of them as shown.

Here is a shot of the FugeRay and my 2835s to give you an idea. The FugeRay is the bottom one  :
























--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here are the PAR values from my testing:








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
What I noticed was that the light disperses more evenly towards the bottom of the tank was surprised to find that the PAR values where almost the same in the center and 5 inches off center at the bottom of the tank on the substrate. In fact it was brighter off center for the FugeRay, this could well be because of internal reflections but I am not sure.

I hope this helps others who want to to build their own lights using the 2835s which I found were brighter than the rest of the cheap LED strip lights and the tests confirm this if you compare the PAR values for the 2 inches depth from the LED since at this proximity individual LED brightness plays a bigger role.

I should probably start a new thread with this information and how I made my LEDs.

Cheers,
Hari


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

haril said:


> Alrighty folks, I finally got my hands on a PAR meter and spent some time testing today morning. Note that I have one 36 inch FugeRay and one 36 inch aluminium blind with 2 rows of 2835 LEDs. The number of 2835 LEDs used is 210. I had first used 600 2835s with my FugeRay which was way too bright and now only use one strip of 210 of them as shown.
> 
> Here is a shot of the FugeRay and my 2835s to give you an idea. The FugeRay is the bottom one  :
> 
> ...


Did you eve use the 5630's? 1/2W each?
For my own curiosity can you give me the numbers on the small SMD resistors for each type?









Thanks for the good info btw:


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## Quizcat (Dec 21, 2014)

haril said:


> Nice work Quizcat but you may want to go easy with the 2835s.


Thanks for all that detailed information Haril!

Do you know what number is considered "Good Par Value?" Were I to apply the numbers on your chart to my SMD2835 fixture, it would mean that my fixture is producing about "20" PAR. I was reading where Ludwigia-Repens, which is the most demanding of the plants in my tanks with respect to light requirements, requires about 40-50 Micromoles of Light. I recognize that there are many variables between various tanks, and that a direct correlation between readings you're getting from your tank versus my tanks may be erroneous. But, it's kind of nice to speculate what the PAR might be in my tanks based on your information.

What PAR value are you trying to acheive for your tank? 

In my case, the tank where I am using the 2835s is a ten gallon tank (photo right below), and I have (228) Cool White LEDs in the fixture. Put another way, I have four 18.5" strips of LEDs that are positioned with about a 1/4"-1/2" of space between each strip, and they're mounted to the bottom of the gutter. The gutter sits directly on top of the tank cover, but the LEDs are recessed into the gutter approximately 5-6", which puts them at least 5-6" from the top of the water. So, in my case, they're a little further from the top surface of the water than where your blind strips are, sitting on the top of the glass cover of your tank. There is also a piece of glass that is part of the tank top on my tank, which the light has to penetrate through before it enters the tank. 








Left = SMD5050s
Right = SMD2835s
I have the gutters turned on end so you can see where the LEDs are mounted in each of the respective fixtures. 

The gutter fixture sits off center on top of the tank, concentrating it's light from about the center of the tank to the back of the tank. The tank cover I'm using is one of the old florescent bulb type covers, and there's an access door in front of where the gutter (fixture) sits when it's in it's normal position. But, based on your PAR readings, it sounds like the offset from center doesn't really effect the PAR readings very much if at all. 

I think I could proably get by with two or three strips, 18.5" long positioned inside gutter, especially if I'm intending to add a couple of the RGB strips of SMD2835s later on to augment the couple of strips of COOL WHITE 6500K color temperature. I believe the ability of the RGB LED light to penetrate the water is siginificantly less than the Cool White SMD2835s. So, I'm thinking that adding a couple of strips of RGB LED SMD2835 to the fixture shouldn't be too intense an amount of light, especially if I remove a strip or two of the Cool White LED strips first. But, conversely, assuming the PAR value that you gleened for your tank can be applied to mine, it would seem that if my LED fixture is only producing about "20" PAR, based on a 15" height from the LEDs to the top of the substrate, then the fixture might actually be producing less light than might be required by the Ludwigia-Repens. But, I still have to study how the supposed 40-50 micromoles required by Ludwigia-Repens translates into PAR value. 



haril said:


> 50 watts of CFLs is plenty of light for a 10 gallon, in fact too much light in my opinion.


Yes, I think the (2) CFLS were way over the top. Before I completed the SMD2835 fixture, I actually removed one of the two CFL bulbs, just because it seemed to be causing the Ludwigia-Repens to take on a really waxy appearance. It could also be that some of the discoloration to the Ludwigia-Repens is a combination of brown algae forming on the leaves as well. 



haril said:


> ...brown algae is usually due to low light...


I am surprised you said that about the Brown Algae forming due to a lack of light, since the Brown Algae has formed during the time that the (2) CFLs were over the tank. I had another mild case of brown algae once in the past, on a 29 gallon tank, using my Current Orbit Marine LED light fixture. I fixed that situation by reducing the amount of time that the tank was exposed to light, from 12 hours to 8 hours, sometimes leaving the light off completely for 24 hour periods. That cured the problem...the algae went virtually away within about three days. So, I am surprised that you say that about a lack of light causing the brown algae issue. 



haril said:


> ...holes in the leaves of plants, its a potassium deficiency...


Thanks for the heads-up on the need for Potassium and the Ludwigia Repens. I had been reading about the holes in the leaves issue, and had come away with a hunch that a Potassium deficiency might be the problem. But, if that be the case, I am surprised, since my tank has fertilizer tabs, which contain Potassium, and I also dose it with Flourish on ocassion. But, only ocassionally because with added fertilizer comes increased Nitrate levels, something I really prefer to avoid with the Bolivian Ram Ciclids in that particular tank. 

I still have a sneaking suspicion that the Potassium deficiency has some kind of causal relationship resulting from an over exposure of light from my using two CFLs, maybe also a lack of CO2, etc...The reason I say that is that the Ludwigia Repens in the 20-gallon tank is doing fantastic, and that tank has had the SMD5050 fixture over it during the same period of time I was using the (2) CFLs over the ten gallon tank. 

I definitely will give my Co2 kit a try one of these days. I am hoping to get this new fixture dialed-in first, and then the Co2 will be one of the next things on the agenda. Since the 20-gallon tank seems to be doing so well, I think I'll begin experimenting on the ten gallon tank with Co2, and see how that effects the Waxy Ludwigia-Repens, and the lethargic hair grass.


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## haril (Feb 17, 2015)

jeffkrol said:


> Did you eve use the 5630's? 1/2W each?
> For my own curiosity can you give me the numbers on the small SMD resistors for each type?


I have not tried the 5630s. That will be my next buy when I set up a new tank.

Do you want the resistor number on the 2835 strip? I'll get back home today and see if thats readable and post it.

Cheers,
Hari


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

haril said:


> Do you want the resistor number on the 2835 strip? I'll get back home today and see if thats readable and post it.
> 
> Cheers,
> Hari
> ...


and the Fugeray. Both look to be visible in your photos.. Just not quite readable.
Opp's one more part. The DC output of the power supplies.
The Finnex is probably 15V

39Ohm is a starting point. (390)


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## haril (Feb 17, 2015)

> Do you know what number is considered "Good Par Value?" Were I to apply the numbers on your chart to my SMD2835 fixture, it would mean that my fixture is producing about "20" PAR. I was reading where Ludwigia-Repens, which is the most demanding of the plants in my tanks with respect to light requirements, requires about 40-50 Micromoles of Light. I recognize that there are many variables between various tanks, and that a direct correlation between readings you're getting from your tank versus my tanks may be erroneous. But, it's kind of nice to speculate what the PAR might be in my tanks based on your information.


Here is an article about PAR values. 
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=184368



> What PAR value are you trying to acheive for your tank?


I am trying to fall into somwhere between the medium and high lighted tank category.



> In my case, the tank where I am using the 2835s is a ten gallon tank (photo right below), and I have (228) Cool White LEDs in the fixture. Put another way, I have four 18.5" strips of LEDs that are positioned with about a 1/4"-1/2" of space between each strip, and they're mounted to the bottom of the gutter. The gutter sits directly on top of the tank cover, but the LEDs are recessed into the gutter approximately 5-6", which puts them at least 5-6" from the top of the water. So, in my case, they're a little further from the top surface of the water than where your blind strips are, sitting on the top of the glass cover of your tank. There is also a piece of glass that is part of the tank top on my tank, which the light has to penetrate through before it enters the tank.


My LEDs are not waterproof and do not have that silicon coating around the strip. It is also brighter and slightly warmer color wise without the silicon coating. I would try and get your LED strips to sit lower above the water like maybe 3 inches or so to make the most of the PAR. Your 228 LEDs should match the PAR values I posted pretty close. You should probably get a lower profile aluminium drip edge like this : Aluminum Fascia Mounted Drip Edge




> The gutter fixture sits off center on top of the tank, concentrating it's light from about the center of the tank to the back of the tank. The tank cover I'm using is one of the old florescent bulb type covers, and there's an access door in front of where the gutter (fixture) sits when it's in it's normal position. But, based on your PAR readings, it sounds like the offset from center doesn't really effect the PAR readings very much if at all.


I would still try and keep the strips as center as possible over the tank. I think the clarity of water impacts the values. My water was very slightly cloudy and that could be dispersing the light a little. The out of the water test proves this.



> I think I could proably get by with two or three strips, 18.5" long positioned inside gutter, especially if I'm intending to add a couple of the RGB strips of SMD2835s later on to augment the couple of strips of COOL WHITE 6500K color temperature. I believe the ability of the RGB LED light to penetrate the water is siginificantly less than the Cool White SMD2835s. So, I'm thinking that adding a couple of strips of RGB LED SMD2835 to the fixture shouldn't be too intense an amount of light, especially if I remove a strip or two of the Cool White LED strips first. But, conversely, assuming the PAR value that you gleened for your tank can be applied to mine, it would seem that if my LED fixture is only producing about "20" PAR, based on a 15" height from the LEDs to the top of the substrate, then the fixture might actually be producing less light than might be required by the Ludwigia-Repens. But, I still have to study how the supposed 40-50 micromoles required by Ludwigia-Repens translates into PAR value.


After my tests I think the PAR almost doubles when you use twice the number of LEDs but obviously this is a very very rough estimate and it doesnt apply as you move closer to the LEDs. I am pretty happy with just the white LEDs and my plants are thriving with all my stem plants putting 1 to 1.5 inches of growth every week and the reddish plants are staying reddish. I have been trimming away every week and the plants with runners are sneaking up to even the back of the tank with runners. Here is a spectrum I found for 2835s but it could vary with different manufacturers and their quality:











> I am surprised you said that about the Brown Algae forming due to a lack of light, since the Brown Algae has formed during the time that the (2) CFLs were over the tank. I had another mild case of brown algae once in the past, on a 29 gallon tank, using my Current Orbit Marine LED light fixture. I fixed that situation by reducing the amount of time that the tank was exposed to light, from 12 hours to 8 hours, sometimes leaving the light off completely for 24 hour periods. That cured the problem...the algae went virtually away within about three days. So, I am surprised that you say that about a lack of light causing the brown algae issue.


From my personal experience the most common cause of brown algae is lack of enough light for other plants to photosynthesize but there are other reasons as well which you can read here http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/algae.htm





> Thanks for the heads-up on the need for Potassium and the Ludwigia Repens. I had been reading about the holes in the leaves issue, and had come away with a hunch that a Potassium deficiency might be the problem. But, if that be the case, I am surprised, since my tank has fertilizer tabs, which contain Potassium, and I also dose it with Flourish on ocassion. But, only ocassionally because with added fertilizer comes increased Nitrate levels, something I really prefer to avoid with the Bolivian Ram Ciclids in that particular tank.


Maybe the pottassium is not being absorbed enough from your root tabs for some reason or that it needs it in the water column. Just thinking out loud. Also Flourish is just for micro nutrients and does not contain enough potassium or phosphates. You could try a potassium rich fert like API Leaf zone and experiment before brewing up your own.



> I still have a sneaking suspicion that the Potassium deficiency has some kind of causal relationship resulting from an over exposure of light from my using two CFLs, maybe also a lack of CO2, etc...The reason I say that is that the Ludwigia Repens in the 20-gallon tank is doing fantastic, and that tank has had the SMD5050 fixture over it during the same period of time I was using the (2) CFLs over the ten gallon tank.


Its all about balancing all the aspects of a planted tank. A lot of trial and error and keeping the expert's guidelines in mind is the usual way till your tank settles down and matures especially when you try new methods of DIY lighting using LEDs. It used to be easier with CFLs. 



> I definitely will give my Co2 kit a try one of these days. I am hoping to get this new fixture dialed-in first, and then the Co2 will be one of the next things on the agenda. Since the 20-gallon tank seems to be doing so well, I think I'll begin experimenting on the ten gallon tank with Co2, and see how that effects the Waxy Ludwigia-Repens, and the lethargic hair grass.


Starting CO2 really helps. Your tank may look and do fine without it but once you start injecting CO2 it makes an obvious difference. My friend has a tank with dwarf sags among other plants which were doing OK but not really thriving. Once he started CO2, he has been trimming out runners to control them from taking over the tank.
[/QUOTE]


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## haril (Feb 17, 2015)

jeffkrol said:


> and the Fugeray. Both look to be visible in your photos.. Just not quite readable.
> Opp's one more part. The DC output of the power supplies.
> The Finnex is probably 15V
> 
> 39Ohm is a starting point. (390)


I had the full res pic on my iPhone and here is what it looks like:

2835 strip resistors = 151 (I use a 12V 1.5A supply)
FugeRay = 1000

Cheers,
Hari


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

haril said:


> I had the full res pic on my iPhone and here is what it looks like:
> 
> 2835 strip resistors = 151 (I use a 12V 1.5A supply)
> FugeRay = 1000
> ...


150mA for the Finnex 3.2V (100 Ohm) This would put them in 1/2W territory Doesn't actually match their published specs though.. AFAICT
80mA for the strips.. 3.7V/diode (150 Ohm) Still .2W
I think. or at least close.. 
EDIT: Not sure if this is correct..btw.
At least those numbers would explain the PAR discrepancy.. The Finnex is run at 2X the current approx.

alternate is:
strips .. 3.4V at 15mA (150 Ohm)
Finnex 3.4 @15mA.. (100 Ohm)


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## Quizcat (Dec 21, 2014)

Haril,

Thank you for your indepth response! 

I am going to check into the drip edge idea. As it stands now, quantitatively, based on using your data as a base line, it seems that the SMD2835s in my fixture are barely producing the PAR needed to yield much plant growth among plants that are in the high end of the low light requirements range. 

The SMD2835 LED Strip light hasn't been in place long enough for me to visually evaluate whether the SMD2835 strip light is going to work out well with respect to plant growth. I suspect that the plants will look fine visually, based on the appearance of the plants under the SMD5050 fixture that's over the 20 gallon tank now. But, I don't expect either of the fixtures to yield rapid plant growth unless I increase the intensity of light inside each respective fixture, or as you suggested, move the LEDs closer to the surface of the water in each tank. 

The plants in my 20 gallon tank, with the SMD5050s overhead, configured the same way with respect to distance from the surface of the water as the ten gallon tank using the same type of gutter housing, are producing very nice looking plants, but yielding very modest growth. It seems that due to the reduced LUX rating of the SMD5050s versus the SMD2835s, and the added distance to the substrate in a 20 gallon tank, that for plants requiring medium levels of light to grow quickly, that more than the 8-strips of LEDs that are in the SMD5050 fixture now will be required to achieve PAR for medium level plants. As you suggested, in the case of the SMD5050 fixture, moving the strips closer to the surface of the water by repositioning them in a drip edge fixture would be the preferable option, since the bottom of the gutter is already filled up with SMD5050 LED strips, and there is no more room to add any more. 



haril said:


> You should probably get a lower profile aluminium drip edge like this...


With regard to the ten gallon SMD2835 tank, fortunately, I have plenty of room in the SMD2835 gutter fixture to experiment further both ways, either by doubling the number of Cool White LEDs, or moving them closer to the surface of the water, or both. Either method would theoretically put me around "PAR=40," versus what the fixture is producing now with only four strips, which is currently around "PAR=20." I might experiment with increasing the number of strips first, since the strips are hot glued in place, and very difficult to reposition. 

Increasing the number of strips, or moving them closer to the surface of the water, seems like it would almost be mandatory with respect to achieving the correct level of PAR for medium level plants if I am contemplating the introduction of CO2 in either tank. In other words, with respect to the proper balance, having insufficient PAR will inhibit the positive effects of CO2 to whatever degree PAR is insufficient in the tank, as it relates to the light requirements of the plants, correct? Yes, I'll say, it's quite a balancing act indeed!



haril said:


> After my tests I think the PAR almost doubles when you use twice the number of LEDs...



I'll try the API Leaf Zone, and see if that makes a difference...


haril said:


> You could try a potassium rich fert like API Leaf zone and experiment before brewing up your own.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Quizcat said:


> View attachment 448657


I was just wondering what that white item between the tank is?


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## Quizcat (Dec 21, 2014)

*Overflow/Drain System...*

I have a drain pipe cleanout that was roughed into the basement wall when the basement was finished into a living area. The cleanout leads directly to the drain. So, I built some 1/2" diameter PVC overflows for the tanks, and plumbed them into the cleanout fitting, using 1/2" ID diamter tubing, which is pushed through the top of the cleanout through a hole drilled in the cleanout cap. The clean out cap is threaded, and can be easily replaced when and if I sell the house. Here is the link to the "You Tube" Video, which is what I followed to make the overflows. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65yVr7DiDls

The only thing I would change, and I am planning on building a new one for the ten gallon tank, is that I wish I had made them out of 3/4" diameter PVC rather than 1/2" diameter. The 1/2" diameter works fine on the 20 gallon tank, but I have to adjust the pump volume down when filling the ten gallon, so the volume of water doesn't exceed the ability of the overflow opening. I built mine out of 1/2" too because 1/2" ID PVC is a little less obtrusive than 3/4" PVC. I actually painted the one in the ten gallon tank with blue paint formulated for plastic, and it blends in better than the white color of the PVC. But, I made several attempts to rework the overflow in the ten gallon tank, and replaced some of the fittings in the process, and you can see some of the white unpainted fittings on the overflow in the ten gallon tank. 

Right now, I'm just preparing 5 gallon buckets, treating the tap water with Seachem Prime to counteract the chlorine, adjusting the water from the tap to the temperature of the water in the tank when I fill the bucket. Then, I use a small volume submersible pump to pump new water from the buckets into the tanks. Right now, the maximum rate of the pump works fine on the 20 gallon, but I have to turn the pump down quite a bit so I don't exceed the capacity of the overflow to handle the volume of water on the ten gallon tank. I don't know why the 1/2" PVC overflow is working at full capacity on the twenty gallon, and works slower on the ten gallon. Perhaps it has something to do with atmospheric pressure, or perhaps my overflow feed from the tank needs to be a little higher up in relation to where the tube enters the top of the drain cap...not sure why the ten gallon drains slower than the 20 gallon, but it does. I want to build a 3/4" PVC instead of 1/2" to resolve the problem, so I can turn the pump up all the way up when filling the ten gallon tank, making the whole process a little quicker. 








Small Minature Pump (Not the exact one, but the same)










With the overflow plumbed to the drain, I never have to remove water from the tanks when I do water changes. I just add water on the side of the tank that's opposite the overflow, push a tube from a pump half way down the side of the inside of the glass, turn the pump on, and the old water exits the tank at the surface of the water in the tank through the overflow as I add water. 

I really like this method because I don't have to disturb the tank, the plants, or the fish, when doing water changes. If I need to do a 50% water change, I can easily do it in about five to ten minutes per tank. 

I actually have several of these cleanouts in the basement of the house, another one in the finsihed part, and one in my unfinished utility room. So, I can keep several tanks, and cut the time it takes to do water changes down quite a bit, not having to first remove water from the tank, or disturb the tank. 

I am contemplating putting a drip system that will introduce about a drop or two every second, which if you do the math, will result in a complete water change once every ten days or so, and I don't have to do any water changes in the future. At that rate, I'm told that the water doesn't even have to be dechlorinated, since the chlorine dissipates rapidly, and at that volume, it doesn't adversely effect the fish. My hesitation at putting a drip system in place is the possibility of a malfunction with the overflow, which could result in a flooded basement. Some use this concept with a sump, fitted with floats that will shut everything down if the automatic drip system/overflow malfunctions. But, I haven't gone that far with it. Since I only have two working tanks, and an empty hospital tank (no fish, only water), it doesn't take long to change the water in the tanks using the overflow concept. Plus, the cost of having continous turnover of the water in the tanks seems like it might be kind of a waste of water. I suspect it's probably unneccessary with respect to the cost of water, as well as the potential for a flooding disaster. 



Hilde said:


> I was just wondering what that white item between the tank is?


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Quizcat said:


> I have a drain pipe cleanout that was roughed into the basement wall when the basement was finished into a living area. The cleanout leads directly to the drain. So, I built some 1/2" diameter PVC overflows for the tanks, and plumbed them into the cleanout fitting, using 1/2" ID diamter tubing
> 
> The only thing I would change, and I am planning on building a new one for the ten gallon tank, is that I wish I had made them out of 3/4" diameter PVC rather than 1/2" diameter. The 1/2" diameter works fine on the 20 gallon tank, but I have to adjust the pump volume down when filling the ten gallon, so the volume of water doesn't exceed the ability of the overflow opening.
> 
> I don't know why the 1/2" PVC overflow is working at full capacity on the twenty gallon, and works slower on the ten gallon.


Very interesting. Sounds like a physics problem, which I had over 5 yrs ago. I just know the smaller the pipe the faster the water flows when draining the water.

Bump:


Quizcat said:


> I suspect that the plants will look fine visually, based on the appearance of the plants under the SMD5050 fixture that's over the 20 gallon tank now. But, I don't expect either of the fixtures to yield rapid plant growth unless I increase the intensity of light inside each respective fixture.
> 
> With regard to the ten gallon SMD2835 tank, fortunately, I have plenty of room in the SMD2835 gutter fixture to experiment further both ways


I think Alternanthera reineckii would grow better in the 20g tank with the SMD5050. For they provide a full spectrum from red to blue. The SMD2835 appear to have more white in the LEDs.


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## Quizcat (Dec 21, 2014)

I watched a video on You Tube showing the various varieties of "AR," and I like the "red" color of it. There are several varieties, some of which display both green and red leaves, and the video said that it is easy to grow. So, I will add it to my list of possibilities for the future. Thank you for the heads-up!

I am also considering Water Wisteria, Lilaeopsis, Amazon Sword, and Cryptocoryne Beckettii (Crypts)...I already have some Anubias in the twenty gallon tank (not sure which variety-ie: Petco), and it's doing well under the SMD5050s. But it takes on just a very slight hint of yellow in the leaves sometimes, which is probably some kind of deficiency I'm not addressing. Of course, the Java Fern and Java Moss are doing very well under the SMD5050s. 

I am really very satisfied with the appearance of the Ludwigia-Repens in the twenty gallon tank, even though it doesn't grow a lot. It still has some reddish tint in some of the leaves, and a nice green color in other leaves. The roots seem to grow pretty long over time. So, it's doing well under the SMD5050s, just not as it could probably do if the SMD5050s delivered slightly better PAR, and if I injected CO2. Ludwigia-Repens grows very well when it's under the two CFLs in the ten gallon tank. But, over time, it's appearance turned waxy looking, and it developed the holes in the leaves. The Ludwigia-Repens in the ten gallon tank is under the new SMD2835 fixture now, so it's performance under the new SMD2835 fixture remains to be seen. I think I am going to clean the ten gallon tank up, get rid of the Brown Algae, etc...before I pass too critical a judgement as to how the new fixture is doing in the ten gallon tank concerning the Ludwigia-Repens. I removed most of the Ludwigia with the holes in the leaves, and the waxy look. I left some of the better looking stems in the ten gallon tank so I can start over evaluating the performance of the new SMD2835 fixture. 




Hilde said:


> I think Alternanthera reineckii would grow better in the 20g tank with the SMD5050. For they provide a full spectrum from red to blue. The SMD2835 appear to have more white in the LEDs.


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## haril (Feb 17, 2015)

I have some stems of alternanthera reineckii growing in the right back corner. They are growing well with just the 2835 whites. Note that they are very slow growers. Mine were grown emmersed when I bought them but none of the leaves died while adapting to submerged growth.

This may help :


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## Quizcat (Dec 21, 2014)

Yep, I need to give those a try. Thanks for the video. That's the one that I stumbled on when I checked the internet for some more information on them. That's a good concise video, and it's encouraging that such a beautiful plant is relatively easy to grow. I don't mind that some of the plants grow slowly, as long as they look healthy, and add some beauty to the tank. In some ways, slow growth is a little easier to deal with if you don't have a lot of time to tend to them. What did you mean by emmersed, that they were growing well while partially out of the water, then totally submerged in your tank when you brought them home?



haril said:


> I have some stems of alternanthera reineckii growing in the right back corner. They are growing well with just the 2835 whites. Note that they are very slow growers. Mine were grown emmersed when I bought them but none of the leaves died while adapting to submerged growth.
> 
> 
> This may help :
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HHr2SPsoxg


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## haril (Feb 17, 2015)

Quizcat said:


> What did you mean by emmersed, that they were growing well while partially out of the water, then totally submerged in your tank when you brought them home?


Yes, emmersed means growing out of the water. The seller grew the plants like that. Its much easier to grow plants like that especially for bulk purposes but they are even slower growing emmersed. I have my own little emmersed setup as a backup of some of my plants. Carpeting plants seem to do really well emmersed. Theres a very good thread about emmersed setups.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

haril said:


> I have some stems of alternanthera reineckii growing in the right back corner.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HHr2SPsoxg


Is this the 40G tank in you tube? For in the tread on the 40G I don't see the alternanthera reinecki. Got a link to the tread with it? For I would like to know the fert regiment.


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## haril (Feb 17, 2015)

Hilde said:


> Is this the 40G tank in you tube? For in the tread on the 40G I don't see the alternanthera reinecki. Got a link to the tread with it? For I would like to know the fert regiment.


Oh no, geeze, I wish this was my tank :hihi:. This is by a guy named Dennis Wong and his channel on youtube. I posted it as a reference for that plant.

You can see my AR on the right side of my tank in the journal photos behind the driftwood. Here is a crop of the photo of that area in the tank. Not the right photo to show it since the rear LED strip over these plants was OFF and it is in the shadows but you will get an idea. The tallest one right in the front right is Ludwigia inclinata pantanal. Will post a better pic during the weekend.









Cheers,
Hari


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## haril (Feb 17, 2015)

hi Quizcat!! Any updates? Hows it going with the setups?


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## haril (Feb 17, 2015)

*Monte Carlo tank*

On a side note, I have new setup with my DIY LED strips. Again using the remaining 2835 LEDs. I used 290 of them split into two strips that sit on top of a 10 gallon tank which is 12 inches tall. 

Note that the tank has just an inch of water and I am growing the Micranthemum Monte Carlo emmersed for now. I am getting a PAR of 70 at the substrate with this setup. I am very satisfied with the 2835s. Time to start another tank journal I guess 

Not very clear due to the humidity in the emmersed tank but will give you an idea.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

haril said:


> I have new setup with my DIY LED strips. Again using the remaining 2835 LEDs. I used 290 of them split into two strips that sit on top of a 10 gallon tank which is 12 inches tall.
> 
> Time to start another tank journal I guess


Yes! I would like to know more about it. What did you attach the strip to? Did you use a heat sink?


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## haril (Feb 17, 2015)

Hilde said:


> Yes! I would like to know more about it. What did you attach the strip to? Did you use a heat sink?


Same old design that I used for my main planted tank. Just stuck the strips under the thin aluminium blind and rested it on top of the tank. Serves as a very nice cheap heatsink as well. If you dont have a glass top, just use more rigid aluminium strips which should be cheap. Trust me this is ultra cheap and very effective but may not be very elegant depending how you look at it.


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## Quizcat (Dec 21, 2014)

*CEP PAR Meter Readings...*

Ok, the results of the CEP PAR meter readings on the home made LED SMD5050 RGBWW strip light fixture, in an aluminum gutter housing, is as follows:

20 Gallon Tank (Tall)
Best PAR reading with Cool + Warm Whites, all on at 100%.
14" from the the top of the substrate to the light source.

PAR varies depending on where the sensor is placed within the tank. But, when taking readings directly under the the LEDs, which are positioned on the back half of the tank due to the window opening in the tank cover, but with the CEP PAR meter centered under the light fixture, PAR is around "4" and can vary all the way up to "6" depending on where the sensor is positioned in the tank. Enough only for very low light plants. The SMD5050 LED strip light fixture used (8) strips, 20" long each, of SMD5050 RGBWW (Cool Whites-6500K)(Warm Whites-3000K). When you turn off the Warm Whites, and activate the RED, BLUE, or GREED LEDs in their place, with the COOL Whites also on simultaneously, the PAR value drops a lot, to around 0-2 depending on where the sensor is placed in the tank. That makes sense to me, since penetration of RED, BLUE, GREEN is customarily less than WHITE light.

So, based on these results, I conclude that LED SMD5050 strips lights are just not sufficient for anything other than very low light plants, if that. 

Conversely, the fixture I built that has the two CFL bulbs returned some interesting readings:

10 Gallon Tank
9.5" from the top of the substrate to the CFL light source.
Fixture = 20" long
(2) 5 Watt CFLs 
PAR readings also varied depending on where the CEP PAR meter sensor was placed. When taking a reading toward the sides of the tank, PAR readings were around 10-12. The bulbs within the housing are oriented horizontally and facing one another. The bulbs are about 8" apart within the housing. When the sensor was positioned between the two horizontally oriented bulbs, between the full intensity of both light sources, in the center of the tank, the PAR readings shot up to around "23-25." So, while the CFL bulbs in a 10 gallon tank performed better with respect to PAR readings than the SMD5050 LED strip lighting, having only two of them, while better than the the LED strip light, they are still only applicable to nourishing low light plants, especially if plants are positioned on the ends of the tank, and not in the center of the tank. The areas at the ends of the tank are directly under the base recepticals of the bulbs, because the bulbs are oriented horizontally. Therefore, less light is projected under the base of the bulbs, and the further you go toward the ends of the tank, the less light reaches the substrate. 

If the bulbs where oriented vertically, and more of them added, perhaps three or four of them in a 10 gallon tank fixture housing, I suspect that PAR levels might be relatively impressive. With the bulbs oriented vertically, and because there would be more of them, it seems like more light would be uniformly projected, not just because there would be more of them, but just due to the vertical positioning of the bulbs. There wouldn't be areas where the bulb bases create shadowy areas, thereby reducing the projection of light into the tank. 

From what I've read, you should be shooting for around a PAR of 40-50 in order to nourish many types of plants, plants requiring low to medium levels of light, and some require even greater amounts of light. However, if you're not looking to grow plants, and you just want the tank to be lighted, then the LED strip light is sufficient. It looks good, and I like the variability of the colors within the tank. And, the cost of the strip light is cheap, and the controllers are wireless/convenient to use, etc...And, if you want to put some low light plants in the tank, java fern, java moss, maybe some anubias, then the light levels are probably sufficient, but just barely. The plants in my tank are doing ok, and look fine, but they aren't setting the world on fire either. 

Some trivia...
As a basis for comparison with respect to Mistergreen's kindly calibration of my PAR meter to his commercially produced PAR meter, today is a very sunny day, end of June, 11:17am, in the Midwest, and the outside reading on the PAR meter is "2006." Before Mistergreen's calibration, I set the meter to an estimate of PAR, an outside PAR of around "1950" using the Sun's rays at noon on a sunny day several weeks ago. Seems like we are Close Enough PAR (CEP).


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

haril said:


> Same old design that I used for my main planted tank. Just stuck the strips under the thin aluminium blind and rested it on top of the tank.


So then you don't have a reflector. Could cause some loss of light at the bottom of the tank.

Which LED strips do you all think are good for growing red stem plants?


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## Quizcat (Dec 21, 2014)

You may have been directing your question to Haril in your previous post, but...

The reflector I used was to paint the inside of the gutter housing with white paint. So, perhaps a better reflector could enhance the ability of the LEDs to penetrate to the substrate more effectively. 

But, based on the PAR meter readings off of the LED strips, I'm doubtful that the LEDs would work well enough to satisfy me with respect to PAR needed to maintain anything but the lowest of the low with respect to plants that need lower levels of light (ie: anubias, java fern, java moss), even with the greatest of reflectors. The individual LEDs are supposed to be .33 watts each in the SMD5050 fixture, and there's over a hundred and fifty LEDs between the eight strips. I think I calculated that the LEDs in the SMD5050 fixture should be able to deliver around 65 Watts. So, using the old school method of Watts/Gallon, the wattage is definitelly there with respect to a comparison with what one would expect would be delivered by an array of CREE 3-Watt emitters, for example. But, the lumens must not be there, not sufficient to penetrate the depth of the water to the substrate. 

Having also taken readings from the fixture that has the SMD2835's, which are brighter than the SMD5050 LEDs, I still only got readings that were relatively the same, but that was comparing the SMD5050 fixture, which has all eight strips installed in it, versus only four strips installed in the fixture that has the SMD2835s in it. 

Even if I were to double the number of strips in the SMD2835 fixture, I estimate that, even if by doing so, I were to double the amount of light, the PAR meter would probably only return about a "8" to "12" on the PAR meter at full depth of the substrate. So, I'm just not convinced that the strip light LEDs are sufficient for a planted tank. 

As a point of comparison, I put the old "Perfecto" brand florescent light fixture back on the 20 gallon tank, and it yielded around 20 PAR at full depth. Not bad for a single florescent tube, but more importantly, by comparison, that makes the "4" to "6" PAR I was gettinig off of the SMD5050 strip light absolutely deplorable with respect to performance. So, the old Perfecto florscent tube is back on the tank, and I have no plans to use the strip lighting for anything other than to light tanks strictly for aesthetic viewing. My grandson, for example, has an LED strip light we made together. And, it works fine, pleasing to the eye, lots of color selection, etc...but, not sufficient for plants. 

If you wanted sufficient light to nourish the red stem plants, I think you would have to go with 3 watt, or three times the number of 1 watt, CREE style LEDs in order to have sufficient light to penetrate to the substrate. If you get closer to the strips, like about 4", then the PAR numbers come up. But, with respect to design, the goal should be to achieve 40-50 PAR between the light source and the substrate, if you want to nourish low to medium light plants. 

Since the substrate is about 14" from the light source in my 20 gallon tank, that disqualifies the strip light LED fixtures from even being considered as legitimate contenders for lighting a planted tank. 

Too bad! But, those are the PAR numbers...

But, one the other hand, Haril was using the strips to augment what his Fugeray was already delivering. Perhaps being closer to the substrate, sitting right on the glass top, and having some directional ability through positioning his strips, he is able to deliver more light to the substrate via the SMD2835s. Plus, I believe that he was able to fit "6" strips on the blind backings. My SMD2835 fixture only had four strips in it, and the strips were inside the gutter housing, which means they are probably probably about 6" off the top of the glass, much further than Haril's strips sitting right on top of the glass. That 6" probably makes a pretty big difference with respect to PAR number at the substrate.




Hilde said:


> So then you don't have a reflector. Could cause some loss of light at the bottom of the tank.
> 
> Which LED strips do you all think are good for growing red stem plants?


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Quizcat said:


> But, based on the PAR meter readings off of the LED strips, I'm doubtful that the LEDs would work well enough to satisfy me with respect to PAR needed to maintain anything but the lowest of the low with respect to plants that need lower levels of light (ie: anubias, java fern, java moss).


Well those plants can grow with a cheap T8 Light Strip.

I was hoping since red plants grow best with red spectrum light that the LEDs would be a good addition to 3-6500 k T5NO bulbs I have over a 20g high tank.


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## Quizcat (Dec 21, 2014)

Yeah, me too...I had high hopes. But, I'm not particularly impressed with the PAR meter readings I got off of the strip lighting. 

Actually, after looking at Haril's setup again, it gave me an idea. I pulled all the LED strips, both the SMD5050s, and the SMD2835s, out of their respective gutter housings, and just laid them flat on a piece of cardboard, pointing up. I positioned the PAR meter sensor over the top of them, out of water mind you. But, I wanted to see what kind of PAR meter reading I got, just generally speaking, to see if there might be hope by positioning the LEDs direclty on top of the glass, rather than in the gutter housing, where they were formerly positioned at least 6" off the top of the glass. 

With the SMD5050s, at about 6-7" from the array of light strips, the PAR meter returned a reading of about PAR "12". The further away from the array of LEDs, the PAR meter readings drop substantially by the inch. 

With the SMD2835s, it was a little better, at about 6-7", the PAR meter read in the low to mid 20s. So, perhaps in a 10 gallon tank, where the substrate might be only about 9-10" from the LEDs laying right on the glass, there is some hope. 

But, again, reference Haril's example above using SMD2835s, he has 290 LEDs, many more than I had to experiment with, and he makes reference to only having the Micranthemum Monte Carlo emmersed in about 1" of water. So, that would make the strip light much more effective, not having to penetrate the full depth of water all the way to the substrate, since there is virtually no water between the LEDs and the Micranthemum Monte Carlo, just the glass top. 

Maybe if we covered the entire glass top with LEDs, the full width of the tank, the performance might improve as well. The LEDs are supposed to be water proof, but I don't know if I have that kind of faith in the Chinese to position them on the underside of the glass top, :tongue:.

With respect to your 20 gallon tall tank, that's exactly the same one I have as well. I can tell you that the Red LEDs put out even less than the White ones. When I toggled between White and Red, the PAR meter readings decreased by at least 25%. The penetration rate in water is even less. 

So, I'm sorry to report that the prospect of using the Red SMD5050 LEDs to augment your plants that like more red spectrum probably wouldn't do much, if anything, especially all the way to substrate. 

Now, here's an idea...if your plants that like more Red have leaves that are closer to the surface of the water, they might pick up enough extra Red to benefit from the Red LEDs. Like I said, if you're just about 4-5" from the LEDs, then the LEDs return some pretty decent numbers, like between 30-50 PAR. 



Hilde said:


> Well those plants can grow with a cheap T8 Light Strip.
> 
> I was hoping since red plants grow best with red spectrum light that the LEDs would be a good addition to 3-6500 k T5NO bulbs I have over a 20g high tank.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Quizcat said:


> Now, here's an idea...if your plants that like more Red have leaves that are closer to the surface of the water, they might pick up enough extra Red to benefit from the Red LEDs. Like I said, if you're just about 4-5" from the LEDs, then the LEDs return some pretty decent numbers, like between 30-50 PAR.


Photosynthetically available radiation (PAR) important to plants. The Kelvin too is important. I don't think there is a device to measure it. How can you be certain that the Kelvins of the LEDs won't produce pigmentation of red plants.


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## Quizcat (Dec 21, 2014)

I can't be sure of anything when it comes to LED strip lights, almost all of which come from China... 

They represent that the "Red" and "Blue" LEDs are in the correct range for growing plants in their literature with respect to "nm" rating. And, their other representations for Warm Whites (3500K), and Cool Whites (6500K), are also in the correct "K" range for nourishing plants. 

But, when purchasing product from another country, and when dealing with people who market via Fleabay, I guess you just have to take their representations at face value. Their representations concerning specifications for their products may not always be accurate, or they might be spot on with their representations. 



Hilde said:


> Photosynthetically available radiation (PAR) important to plants. The Kelvin too is important. I don't think there is a device to measure it. How can you be certain that the Kelvins of the LEDs won't produce pigmentation of red plants.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Hilde said:


> I don't think there is a device to measure it. How can you be certain that the Kelvins of the LEDs won't produce pigmentation of red plants.


There is and w/ the right pick of model it also does PAR but.. it will cost you..
http://www.sekonic.com/products/c-700r/overview.aspx
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/979335-REG/ikan_mk350_spectrometer.html

@ $1500
As to pigments..and for those not genetically red.. high light, high blue or UV will encourage red pigments.. 
Red LED's will show them off more..


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## haril (Feb 17, 2015)

Quizcat said:


> With the SMD2835s, it was a little better, at about 6-7", the PAR meter read in the low to mid 20s. So, perhaps in a 10 gallon tank, where the substrate might be only about 9-10" from the LEDs laying right on the glass, there is some hope.
> 
> But, again, reference Haril's example above using SMD2835s, he has 290 LEDs, many more than I had to experiment with, and he makes reference to only having the Micranthemum Monte Carlo emmersed in about 1" of water. So, that would make the strip light much more effective, not having to penetrate the full depth of water all the way to the substrate, since there is virtually no water between the LEDs and the Micranthemum Monte Carlo, just the glass top.


I made sure my LEDs were not water proof. That cheap silicon coating eats up a lot of light by dispersing it and even changes the color output of the LED. Try pealing out the silicon in one area and you will know what I mean. 

I am getting a PAR of 70 which is through a glass lid and some thin wrap around 11 inches from the LEDs (290 of them). I am sure I would get at least 60 with water. I can experiment and let you know this weekend or so.


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## ichy (Apr 6, 2015)

Quizcat said:


> Yeah, me too...I had high hopes. But, I'm not particularly impressed with the PAR meter readings I got off of the strip lighting.
> 
> Actually, after looking at Haril's setup again, it gave me an idea. I pulled all the LED strips, both the SMD5050s, and the SMD2835s, out of their respective gutter housings, and just laid them flat on a piece of cardboard, pointing up. I positioned the PAR meter sensor over the top of them, out of water mind you. But, I wanted to see what kind of PAR meter reading I got, just generally speaking, to see if there might be hope by positioning the LEDs direclty on top of the glass, rather than in the gutter housing, where they were formerly positioned at least 6" off the top of the glass.
> 
> ...


what rgbw strips did you use? I just got a meter of some 24v rgbw strip that appear about as bright as a beams work razor fixture. I dont have a PAR meter so I'm just eyeballing, but it hurts to look at them!:wink:


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## Quizcat (Dec 21, 2014)

My SMD5050 LED strips came from Fleabay, so they're Chinese imports, and mine operate on a 12Vdc power supply. 

My SMD2835s do hurt to look at. The SMD5050s, not so much, and it is possibly because of the waterproof coating. 

Haril may have something there with respect to the coating that's on the waterproof versions. Haril used 290 of the SMD2835s, and they are much brighter than the SMD5050s to begin with...they are blinding! 

My fixture with SMD2835s only consisted of 4 strips, which amounts to about 228 LEDs. But, the more important consideration seems to be their concentration, and distance from the top of the tank. I believe Haril's are much more concentrated on his aluminum blinds than my strips were within the gutter housing. Plus, my strips were sunk into the gutter housing, probably 6" off the top of the glass. My strips had gaps between each strip that were as wide as another strip and a half, where another strip could fit, and mine were covered (waterproof), which does reduce their brightness. 

The other consideration is that the SMD2835 strips do not come RGBW, they come only in White, or Red, and I do not recall having seen any in Blue or Green when I was looking for them. I have a roll of RED ones, but haven't tested them yet. 

With Haril's success with the Cool White SMD2835s, I am going to look more closely at experimenting with mine. But, I've given up on the SMD5050's. I just don't think they have the intensity needed for a planted tank, not even if you remove the waterproof covering, and regardless of how they represent them on Ebay with respect to wattage. 




ichy said:


> what rgbw strips did you use? I just got a meter of some 24v rgbw strip that appear about as bright as a beams work razor fixture. I dont have a PAR meter so I'm just eyeballing, but it hurts to look at them!:wink:


Yes, let me know what you come up with. I'm going to peal that waterproofing off of mine first chance I get, and do some more experimenting myself. I still have a roll of REDs too, and I'm kind of interested to see what they can do as well. But, I agree, the waterproofing has to come off. Now that I have the PAR meter, I can assess their performance scientifically. With the PAR meter, I'm in a much better position to draw final conclusions. 



haril said:


> I made sure my LEDs were not water proof. That cheap silicon coating eats up a lot of light by dispersing it and even changes the color output of the LED. Try pealing out the silicon in one area and you will know what I mean.
> 
> I am getting a PAR of 70 which is through a glass lid and some thin wrap around 11 inches from the LEDs (290 of them). I am sure I would get at least 60 with water. I can experiment and let you know this weekend or so.


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## ichy (Apr 6, 2015)

Quizcat said:


> My SMD5050 LED strips came from Fleabay, so they're Chinese imports, and mine operate on a 12Vdc power supply.
> 
> My SMD2835s do hurt to look at. The SMD5050s, not so much, and it is possibly because of the waterproof coating.
> 
> ...


Were your 5050 24v?


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## Quizcat (Dec 21, 2014)

I removed the waterproof coating from my SMD2835s, and positioned them side by side on a piece of aluminum strip approximately 20" long. The PAR readings I obtained, out of water, approximately 8-9" from the strip array, were not particularly impressive, certainly not what Haril is getting from his strips. The PAR readings I'm getting are around 22-24mm at 8-9". 

Perhaps it's a difference between where I purchased my strips, versus where Haril obtained his strips. Perhaps there is a quality of performance issue with my strips. Mine came from Fleabay via China. I'm powering my strip off a 12Vdc power supply. Would powering a strip at 24Vdc have any effect on their intensity? 

My CEP PAR meter was very recently calibrated to Mistergreen's commerically manufactured PAR meter, so it should be on PAR. So, I don't think there's an issue with respect to the integrity of readings from Haril's PAR meter versus my PAR meter. 

Haril, where did you get your strips, what are you powering them with, and at what voltage? Are you using a commercially manufactured PAR meter, or are you using the CEP PAR meter to take readings? 

To illustrate how deceiving the human eye is with respect to PAR...The other day, I was blown-away because I tested a fixture I happened to have that was commercially produced, and I thought it was virtually worthless with respect to delivering PAR. It's a Marineland "Double-Bright" Model, 18" wide fixture, and it came with my 28 gallon cube. I always thought it was just one of those lights that was very basic, mostly for aesthetic viewing, and that it wouldn't be useful for nourishing plants. It's intensity was bright, as bright to the eye as the array of SMD2835s LEDs, but not particularly brighter to the human eye. 

Because it was a Marineland product that came with my tank as part of a package deal, I had written it off with respect to ever actually using it in a planted tank. I had stored it away, and ignored it all this time, assuming that it was just a mediocre fixture, and it is when compared to most planted tank lighting. But, I pulled it out anyway, dusted it off, and took some readings with the CEP PAR meter. I was surprised when it faired better than all the strips of LEDs lighting that I've been experimenting with. 

It returned a PAR reading around 30mm at 12". But, what I noticed about it was that the light was very strongly projected directly downward, and that when taking PAR meter readings, significant PAR was lost immediately to the sides of where the LEDs where positioned. The array of (3) Blue LEDs in this fixture returned a PAR readings of zero at 12". I don't know if colors in good planted tank fixtures are supposed to return PAR readings or not. There are inherent flaws in the fixture itself with respect to design, making it not the best choice for a planted tank. In my opinion, it's just a contender for aesthetic viewing. But, the PAR direclty under the LEDs wasn't too bad, and it was significantly better than the SMD2835 strip light array. Out of water, the White LEDs returned a PAR @ 12" of about 37mm. The Marineland Double-Bright White LEDs are 1 Watt, color temperature of 6000K, and the Blues are 60mw. 

My point being that perhaps there are issues with how my LED strips are projecting their light. To the naked eye they are no brighter than the Marineland fixture, yet the Marineland fixture produces much better PAR according to the CEP PAR meter, and at longer distances than the SMD2835 strips. 

There was a test done by a member of the forum with respect to this same Marineland fixture (and many other brands and models as well), by a forum member, LivingWorld, in July of 2012, and his PAR readings of this same Marineland Double Bright fixture returned the following results:

Marineland Double Bright 18-24 inch fixture: 30 PAR @ 12", 17 PAR @ 24"

Here's the link to LivingWorld's test, in case you want to look up your own PAR performance on a particular fixture you may have. This data could possibly be used to keep your PAR meter calibrated if you have a particular fixture, assuming that the performance of the LEDs is consistent over time, because LivingWorld's PAR readings seem to be spot-on with respect to my Marineland Double-Bright Fixture. 

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=183664

The readings that I took from my Double Bright Fixture are perfectly consistent with the readings that LivingWorld received from his testing regimen of the Marineland Double Bright Fixture, which also serves as further verifcation that my CEP PAR Meter is on PAR. 

So, I can't really understand or explain why my SMD2835s are working poorly, and Haril's are working so well. 



haril said:


> I am getting a PAR of 70 which is through a glass lid and some thin wrap around 11 inches from the LEDs (290 of them). I am sure I would get at least 60 with water. I can experiment and let you know this weekend or so.


No, my SMD5050s were powered with a 12Vdc-6A power supply, the same kind of brick you use to power a computer screen. And, your point is well taken. I've considered that, and inquired with Haril as to what he is powering his SMD2835s with. It may all come down to the power supply. If so, that would be a very easy fix. 



ichy said:


> Were your 5050 24v?


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## haril (Feb 17, 2015)

I got it off e-bay from a US seller and I am very happy with the strip I got. The item number is 181505849202

Make sure you get the strip with 600 LEDs which is more densely arranged.

I am using a standard 12 V 1.5 A DC supply that was lying around my house that was used to power a wireless router or something.

I used an Apogee Quantum flux Par meter


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## Quizcat (Dec 21, 2014)

Actually, I just checked my source on the SMD2835s again, and realized that my SMD2835s were also from a US seller. Item #201187739275 via Fleabay. It was a different vendor than yours Haril, but the strips match with respect to description. Here's a photo of my strip. Is the concentration of my LEDs about the same as yours? My strip is 16' (5M) long, and has 600 LEDs total. Mine has cut lines every 3 LEDs. I'm using a 12Vdc/6 Amp power supply. The only difference is mine have the waterproofing. But, the PAR meter readings I took that were part of my prior post were taken after I removed the waterproofing. 

Here's a photo of my strip:


















haril said:


> I got it off e-bay from a US seller and I am very happy with the strip I got. The item number is 181505849202
> 
> Make sure you get the strip with 600 LEDs which is more densely arranged.
> 
> ...


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## Quizcat (Dec 21, 2014)

I compared your seller's ad to my seller's ad. Mine were advertised as being .1 watt per LED. Yours were advertised as 36W per strip of 600 LEDs. So, yours were advertised to be .06 watts per LED, versus my .1 watt per LED. Mine should be even slightly brighter, unless my vendor was rounding off. As I mentioned, the Ebay sellers sometimes endulge is considerable latitude when representing their products. I suspect that your vendor and my vender obtained them from the same source in China though, and that their specs are identical. 

I don't get it...there's a huge discrepencey between our respective PAR readings. 



haril said:


> Make sure you get the strip with 600 LEDs which is more densely arranged.


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## Jimsp (Sep 29, 2014)

Quizcat said:


> As I mentioned, the Ebay sellers sometimes endulge is considerable latitude when representing their products.


Actually many of them grossly overstate the specification of these strips. For instance I've seen claims of a strip of 300 5630 white LED's would operate at 120Watts. With the build in current limiting resisters and losses from the thin copper strips at 12V they draw at most 3 amps or 36W. Of course this means you won't get anywhere near the 1200-1500LM/meter they claim.


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## haril (Feb 17, 2015)

Quizcat said:


> I compared your seller's ad to my seller's ad. Mine were advertised as being .1 watt per LED. Yours were advertised as 36W per strip of 600 LEDs. So, yours were advertised to be .06 watts per LED, versus my .1 watt per LED. Mine should be even slightly brighter, unless my vendor was rounding off. As I mentioned, the Ebay sellers sometimes endulge is considerable latitude when representing their products. I suspect that your vendor and my vender obtained them from the same source in China though, and that their specs are identical.
> 
> I don't get it...there's a huge discrepencey between our respective PAR readings.


My 2835 strip is the same - 600 LEDs in 5 meters.

You cannot depend on the specs of e-bay sellers for these generic LED strips which can be manufactured by many different sources in China. But overall I think it should almost be the same.

I know my PAR meter is well calibrated and gave accurate results when I tested my Finnex fixture as well. Note that my 290 LEDs on the 10 gallon are laid out in rows which are the length of the standard 10 gallon tank.


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## Quizcat (Dec 21, 2014)

Yeah, same here, the specs of the light strips should be pretty close...and, my CEP PAR meter was very recently calibrated by Mistergreen, and then I also compared the readings I took with my CEP PAR meter from the Marineland Double-Bright LED fixture I have, comparing those results with what Planted Tank member "LivingWorld" got when he used his PAR meter to read the Marineland Double-Bright fixture, and our readings were virtually identical. 

With regard to how you have them arranged, in strips, I had initially taken readings from four strips the other day, arranged right next to one another on a piece of cardboard, x 20" long, the same lenth as a 10 gallon tank. But, I had them on cardboard just for experimentation, not permanently, (ie: heat issues). Later, I arranged them on a thin piece of aluminum, x 20" long, and got the same readings. 

Perhaps by laying them right on the glass, their brilliance is being magnified through the glass, and you're getting better dispursed light than the way in which I took my readings, which was out of water, facing up, four strips, and nothing but air between the LED strips and the PAR meter sensor. Maybe the glass top helps to project, direct, or focus the light forward. Maybe the glass top is benefiting the intensity of the LEDs in some unexpected way, almost like a lens, or a Beam Angle functions. 

You know, you can actually focus the suns rays through a piece of glass, and start a fire, whereas a piece of paper sitting out in the open isn't typically expected to burst into flames. So, maybe there's something to that glass top theory. I have an extra 10 gallon glass cover, maybe I'll experiment with that on one of my empty 10 gallon tanks. It would be interesting to find that the light is actually being enhanced through the glass, and not curtailed, which is what I would have otherwise assumed would be the case. Maybe if I duplicate your setup, I'll get similar PAR results to yours. 

Haril, when you took your PAR readings, and you got the 60-70 PAR reading, did you submerge the sensor into the 1" of water, from the surface of the substrate, or take the readings from the top surface of the 1" of water that was in the tank at the time? Did you ever fill up the tank and take subsequent readings with the sensor at the substrate? How deep was the water, and was the sensor at the substrate? What were those results?



haril said:


> I know my PAR meter is well calibrated and gave accurate results when I tested my Finnex fixture as well.


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## haril (Feb 17, 2015)

Quizcat said:


> Yeah, same here, the CEP was very recently calibrated by Mistergreen, and then I also compared the readings I took with mine from the Marineland fixture, comparing those results with what Planted Tank member "LivingWorld" got when he used his PAR meter to read the Marineland Double-Bright fixture, and our readings were virtually identical.
> 
> With regard to how you have them arranged, in strips, I have four strips arranged right next to one another on a piece of cardboard, x 20" long, just for experimentation, not permanently. That would be the same length as a 10 gallon tank. Perhaps by laying them right on the glass, their brilliance is being magnified through the glass, and you're getting a better dispursed light than the way in which I took my readings, which was out of water, and facing up, just four strips, and nothing between the LED strips and the PAR meter sensor. Maybe the glass top helps to project the light. Maybe the glass top is benefiting the intensity of the LEDs in some unexpected way.
> 
> I have an extra 10 gallon glass cover, maybe I'll experiment with that on one of my empty 10 gallon tanks. It would be interesting to find that the light is actually being enhanced through the glass, and not curtailed, which is what one might otherwise assume would be the case. Maybe if I duplicate your setup, I'll get similar results.


Yup, I am sure the internal reflections within the glass tank add to the PAR but may be not passing through the actual glass lid. I feel even water adds to it at certain positions too. Let me know how it goes but after all my experiments I settled with the 2835s because I found them to workout the best in the sub 1 watt cheap strip category :icon_smil


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## Quizcat (Dec 21, 2014)

I finally got a chance to take some readings using the CEP PAR meter...The theory is that perhaps the glass top has a magnifying effect upon the LEDs in the strip, and that by taking readings through a glass top, the performance of my SMD2835s might improve. 

You will recall that my original readings were taken from the same strip while it was installed in the bottom of a piece of aluminum guttering, readings taken via open air, and not from inside a tank. 

In this test, I am taking readings using a 10 gallon tank that is 20" long. There are four strips x 18" long, and they were adhered to a flat piece of aluminum, the same thickness as aluminum gutter. 

The best reading I was able to obtain was 30 PAR from 4 strips of SMD2835's. But, it was only four strips x 18" long, so the strips are slightly short of the full width of the tank. In addition, the tank was completely empty, no substrate material, and no water, dry as a bone. 

The SMD2835 light strip was laying flat directly on top of the glass top when I took my readings. The positioning of the PAR meter sensor was about 2" off the very bottom of the tank because of the way the probe I use curves around, positioned on the end of a metal clothes hanger, so that the photo diode takes light directly into it, and it's easy to plunge into a tank and have the best orientation for the sensor. But, in that position, the face of the photodiode is about 2" off the substrate. So, I figure that the actual PAR readings were probably about 28 micromoles accounting for the distance off the bottom of the tank. But, that 2" position above the bottom glass of the tank could also be construed as being the same approximate position the sensor would be in were there a substrate. 

Anyway, if you subtract what is a relatively conservative estimate for the tank having no water in it, -10%, I estimate that the PAR reading was actually probably around 28-30 micromoles. 

Now, that's just four strips of light, about 1.5" wide x 18" long, and I positioned the sensor right under the center of the light strip, reorienting the sensor by slight offsets in degrees one way or the other until I obtained the very best reading possible. I suspect that if I had a full complement of strips on top of the glass top, that the PAR reading would have possibly been higher. 

I plan to add some more strips so that I have at least about 2.75" of strip x 18" long, which would almost double the number of LEDs. I only have room for about 3 more rows of LEDs on the flat piece of Aluminum I am using to mount to. 

I suspect that if you were able to cover the entire top of the glass with LED strips, that the PAR readings might be pretty respectable in a 10 gallon tank. But, I also suspect that were you to try the same thing with a deeper tank, that you would experience a rapid decline in PAR as the distance between the surface of the substrate and the glass top increased, in a 20 gallon tall tank or above for example. A 20 gallon long tank, which has a shorter distance from the bottom of the tank to the top of the tank than a 20 gallon tall tank, might also return better PAR performance, perhaps more in sync with the 10 gallon tank. 

So, in conclusion, I theorize that perhaps the glass top does a better job at providing a sort of "beam effect" that improves PAR, and that perhaps the PAR is also improved from the light shining into an enclosed glass tank, versus readings taken in the open air. And, it is possible that with water in the tank, the optical effect may even enhance PAR further rather than detract from it, depending on how much water is in the tank. 

In Haril's case, he is certainly getting higher PAR readings than I am, much higher than what I initially experienced from SMD2835s when taking PAR readings in open air. But, in his case the amount of water in the tank was only about 1". So, perhaps with that very small amount of water, along with readings taken through a glass top, and from within a glass enclosure rather than open air, the PAR readings are significantly enhanced compared to my taking open air readings. 

Perhaps having certain amounts of water within the tank, there is some kind of magnifying effect being produced with respect to light intensity, and depending on the amount of water in the tank, the performance is either improved or degraded. In Haril's case, it seems that perhaps with 1" of water in the tank, readings taken through the glass top, and with approximately a 30% higher number of LEDs than I had, that impressive PAR results can be achieved with SMD2835s in a 10 gallon tank.



haril said:


> Yup, I am sure the internal reflections within the glass tank add to the PAR but may be not passing through the actual glass lid. I feel even water adds to it at certain positions too. Let me know how it goes but after all my experiments I settled with the 2835s because I found them to workout the best in the sub 1 watt cheap strip category :icon_smil


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## haril (Feb 17, 2015)

How many LEDs are there in total sitting on top of your 10 gallon? I had a total of 290 of them and I am getting a PAR of 60 to 70 at the bottom of the tank. I even checked with the water level lower than the PAR sensor and it still gives the same results. I still haven't checked it with the 10 gallon tank fully filled up with water but I am sure it will be good as I had noticed in my tests in my main tank.

If your PAR values are still lower than mine, the quality of the LEDs maybe the cause as they can be manufactured by so many different manufacturers in China who may not use the same components. Just my thoughts.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

haril said:


> haril said:
> 
> 
> > How many LEDs are there in total sitting on top of your 10 gallon? I had a total of 290 of them
> ...


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## Quizcat (Dec 21, 2014)

There's a total of 228 LEDs...Yeah, it's got to be the quality of the LEDs. But, remember, mine were waterproofed, and I removed the plastic covering by hand to duplicate your scenario. So, maybe if I had ordered them as non-waterproofed, I would be getting the same results. Maybe there's some kind of specification distinction between the LEDs they're using to make waterproofed ones versus non-waterproofed ones. 

Anyway, your results are sufficiently impressive that I would be willing to order another roll from your supplier to experiment further, just to see if I can duplicate your performance. Getting 60-70 PAR from a roll of LED strips is pretty good. Even in a 20 gallon tank, the additional amount of water depth would probably degrade the amount of PAR performance a bit. But, if one could realize 40-50 PAR that would be more than sufficient for plants that like low to medium levels of light. 

I would be curious to know what you get with the tank filled all the way up...

Can you advise the link where you obtained your SMD2835s? 



haril said:


> How many LEDs are there in total sitting on top of your 10 gallon?... I still haven't checked it with the 10 gallon tank fully filled up with water.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Quizcat said:


> Maybe there's some kind of specification distinction between the LEDs they're using to make waterproofed ones versus non-waterproofed ones.


Besides quality differences their brightness will depend on both the Ohm value of the terminating resistors and output in amps of the power supply.

Some other factors related to quality other than the LED's themselves is the thickness of the copper trace and subsequent voltage drop..


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## haril (Feb 17, 2015)

Quizcat said:


> Can you advise the link where you obtained your SMD2835s?


Here is the item number from e-bay - 181505849202

Bump:


Hilde said:


> haril said:
> 
> 
> > Now I read that you just taped them on blind strips. How many strips did you use? Got a pic of it? For I can't envision it.
> ...


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## Quizcat (Dec 21, 2014)

Thanks very much for the Item Number. I ordered a roll this morning. I'll get them in here sometime next week to experiment further. 

My plan is to mount as many strips as will fit on a piece of aluminum flat stock, positioned right next to each other, maybe 4" wide x 24" long piece of flat stock with LEDs mounted out to about 22" in length. I have some small narrow adhesive rubber bumpers that will cushion the aluminum flat stock against the glass top, so that the "fixture" can be placed on the glass top and not damage it. I envision placing the 4" flat stock over the back side of the glass top, so that the fixture doesn't obstruct the black rubber hinge of the glass top, take some readings, and see where I'm at. 

If the readings look good, then my plan will be to make a second identical fixture to be placed over the front of the tank. I may have to possibly add or subtract some strips to even out the numbers of LEDs on both pieces of flat stock in order to achieve the best PAR readings, and avoid shaddows in the tank. With both pieces of flat stock positioned over the entire width of the front and back top of the hinged glass cover, that should give a pretty even light distribution. 

How was the adhesive backing on your roll of LEDs Haril? 

Every roll of strip lighting I've ever gotten has had really lousy adhesive backing on it, even though it says it's 3M double stick, it's absolutely not! I'm sure it's some kind of pirated version, because it is totally ineffective! The good stuff, the actual 3M sticks like concrete. I've had to hot glue the strips in order to hold them in place, as the adhesive backing on every LED light strip I've ever dealth with just pops loose. 

I want to avoid using hot glue if possible this time, and if the backing on the strip I just ordered is just as lousy as the other strips I've purchased in the past, I want to try to come up with a really good adhesive to hold the strips firmly to the aluminum backing. I envision using some kind of epoxy spray that can be applied to the flat stock, and the strips pushed into place, allowed to cure, something that will hold the strips tightly like concrete, but I don't know if such an epoxy spray even exists. 

This morning, I was able to position my (4) short strips of SMD2835's, about 1.5" wide x 18" long, mounted to a very thin piece of aluminum (gutter thickness) (waterproofing removed from the LED strips) on the 20 gallon tank, and the PAR readings weren't too good. The best I was able to get was about 8 micromoles of PAR from a sensor positioned about 1-1/2" to 2" above the substrate, with the strips laying right on the glass, behind the plastic glass top's hinge. Not nearly good enough for a planted tank. Oh, it might be ok for some plants that like low light levels, but certainly not good enough for plants that need more. 



haril said:


> Here is the item number from e-bay - 181505849202


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## haril (Feb 17, 2015)

Your plan sounds good. Keep us updated.

I did not use any extra glue, just the sticky strip itself. It had the 3M logo on it but did look like a cheap ripoff. However I have had no problem with it. The strips hold very well and have not come out at all.

Also, if you read my earlier post with the detailed testing I did, I got a PAR of 20 to 46 with 210 LEDs, holding the strip off the top of the tank. Attached are my test results again for the strip with 210 LEDs on my 16 inch deep 37 gallon:


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## Quizcat (Dec 21, 2014)

Your original testing doesn't reflect anticipating a PAR reading of 60-70 PAR, if you're measuring for PAR at the substrate. I would have anticipated PAR levels in the 40-60 PAR range at the middle depths (4" to 6") based on your prior results, which would be fine for plants that are taller, since the light can be absorbed through the leaves. I am shocked to see that your strip lights yield a PAR level as high as 60-70 PAR at the substrate, yet those are the readings you're getting. 

The difference between the 210 LEDs used to gather your prior test results versus the 290 LEDs that are now yielding 60-70 PAR at full depth of the substrate, represents a 28% increase in the number of LEDs over your prior test results. If you extrapolate the percentages, that additional 28% correlates to an anticipated PAR in the range of 25-30 PAR from the additional 80 LEDs, based on your prior test results. So, it is truly exceptional that you're getting 60-70 PAR at the substrate. I can only hope to duplicate that. 



haril said:


> ...I had a total of 290 of them and I am getting a PAR of 60 to 70 at the bottom of the tank.





haril said:


> ...I got a PAR of 20 to 46 with 210 LEDs, holding the strip off the top of the tank. Attached are my test results again for the strip with 210 LEDs on my 16 inch deep 37 gallon:


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## haril (Feb 17, 2015)

These numbers are for my main Tank (a 16 inch deep 37 gallon). The 2835s are used to suppliment the FugeRay I already have there. I used just 210 LEDs across the length of the tank which is 36 inches.

The 60-70 PAR readings were for 290 LEDs laid out on top of my 10 gallon tank as pictured. The other difference is the depth of around 4 to 5 inches but the biggest difference is because the 210 LEDs are across two long rows whereas the 290 on top of the 10 gallon are across 5 short parallel rows. I think thats what made the difference. More parallel rows = more condensed.



Quizcat said:


> Your original testing doesn't reflect anticipating a PAR reading of 60-70 PAR, if you're measuring for PAR at the substrate. I would have anticipated PAR levels in the 40-60 PAR range at the middle depths (4" to 6") based on your prior results, which would be fine for plants that are taller, since the light can be absorbed through the leaves. I am shocked to see that your strip lights yield a PAR level as high as 60-70 PAR at the substrate, yet those are the readings your getting.
> 
> The difference between the 210 LEDs used to gather your prior test results versus the 290 LEDs that are now yielding 60-70 PAR at full depth of the substrate, represents a 28% increase in the number of LEDs over your prior test results. If you extrapolate the percentages, that additional 28% correlates to an anticipated PAR in the range of 25-30 PAR from the additional 80 LEDs, based on your prior test results. So, it is truly exceptional that you're getting 60-70 PAR at the substrate. I can only hope to duplicate that.


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## haril (Feb 17, 2015)

Any updates Quizcat?


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

I got the whole LED kit 5050. Thinking I could use some on 25g tank, which is 25in, and 20g long, which is 30in. Found an adapter that can be attached to the remote control box. Looking for another control found a dimmer on fleebay

Has anyone used the dimmer with the control. Thinking of getting that for 20g long which is to be kept low tech.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Quizcat said:


> Thanks very much for the Item Number. I ordered a roll this morning. I'll get them in here sometime next week to experiment further.


So is there any obvious difference between the 2835 LED strip you have and the 1 Haril used?

Updates!!!


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Quizcat said:


> I've had to hot glue the strips in order to hold them in place, as the adhesive backing on every LED light strip I've ever dealth with just pops loose.
> 
> I want to avoid using hot glue if possible this time


How about using super glue gel?


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## ichy (Apr 6, 2015)

I would not use superglue, it may frost the LED cases...


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

ichy said:


> I would not use superglue, it may frost the LED cases...


Oh, yeh! Forgot how it is hard to control the spread of the glue.


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## ichy (Apr 6, 2015)

Hilde said:


> Oh, yeh! Forgot how it is hard to control the spread of the glue.


Actually its not the spread of the glue, its the fumes from the curing. It will frost certain plastics. 

I honestly have no idea if it will frost LEDs but it does many plastics, so I would not chance it.


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