# CRS very fast deaths



## pink4miss (Aug 20, 2013)

what was the ph of the stores water? i ask this because if it was a low 6.5 and had ammonia in it. your slow acclimation made the ammonia toxic. higher ph makes ammonia more toxic. and the shrimp could have got ammonia poisoning .
i have found over the years to float the closed bag and get it to temp than open the bag and pull the critter out after the water temps the same, the best way. i have lost many critters to the long acclimation . and never one with doing the float the bag and pull the animal out method.
if you must do the long acclimation, use prime or some other product that locks the ammonia from being toxic, as soon as you open the bag.

i think your cleaning was the topper when the ammonia rose. if you lower your ph with substrate or some other way . you will have less problems with these ammonia spikes that happen in a small tank. if you lower your ph don't use product you dump in the tank. use something that stays in the tank such as fluval substrate . the liquid products you just dump in are a losing battle . they are a pain to use and unstable


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

I can't be sure, but it sounds like a problem molting. What is your TDS and gh?


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## Duck5003 (Oct 1, 2012)

Just to be sure, we are talking about Cherries right? I assume because that's what's pictured. If the 3 you bought and lost were Crystal Red Shrimp they require diff params. 

Assuming they are cherries, GH and TDS will need to be known. Buy a TDS meter off [Ebay Link Removed] Super cheap and IMHO one of if not the most important tools for shrimping. It sounds like you took more than enough time to acclimate them and they made it a few days after so i would say they were ok through that.

I think GH and TDS will give you your answer because it does sound like a molting issue. With that jerking motion they are literally trying to jump out of their "skin" so to speak. Contact your LFS as well and find out their params if available to see if there is anything that is drastically different. I hope you figure it out though! And try not to get discouraged, i'm sure i can speak for most shrimpers when i say i went through a few shrimp before really getting it right and even then, mistakes and oddball things happen. Keep us updated!


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## ravensgate (May 24, 2012)

Yeah, CRS = Crystal Red Shrimp RCS = Red Cherry shrimp, easy to get them confused

Can't help with much but agree GH needs to be known. Sounds like a molting issue, especially how you say they are behaving. The female wiggling her back legs with the tail up is a sign she has either just molted or is about to (with the next couple of days, it's a stretch to get the exoskeleton loosened).


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## Aganor (Oct 6, 2013)

Oh yes, cherries, i forgot to mention, sorry..

Molting? but the other 3 molt everytime i change the water :/

I dont have a gH test yet since the stores here have cheap ones that i dont really think that are accurate, im waiting for a JBL test to arrive,

TDS i dont have yet but will buy,
Does TDS matter on the molting issue? i tought it was about water quality regarding organic matter.

The store pH is 7~ish and its clean, that i can assure since they have really nice filtration there, so thats not the issue,
But i will go there today to clear this out,


But can a bad molt kill them? i mean, they werent dead, since they had motion inside their mouths, wich i assume its them breathing,

I can assume that since my pH is high and my kH is high too, my water must be moderate in gH too..


So it seems it was a qater quemistry issue after all, different parameters plus organic matter made the already frail shrimps to be more frail..


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## Aganor (Oct 6, 2013)

ravensgate said:


> Yeah, CRS = Crystal Red Shrimp RCS = Red Cherry shrimp, easy to get them confused
> 
> Can't help with much but agree GH needs to be known. Sounds like a molting issue, especially how you say they are behaving. The female wiggling her back legs with the tail up is a sign she has either just molted or is about to (with the next couple of days, it's a stretch to get the exoskeleton loosened).



So its more about Molting than poisoning..

lets assume ammonia or nitrites were the culprits since a lot of poo and dirt came form the syphon i did, than what could be the behaviour?

hiding and slowly deaths in contrast by the quick jerking deaths they had?


Describing more accurately the moves:
the shrimp started to swim a lot, up and down, agaisnt the bubbles and all around the tank, sometimes stopping mid air and going down and swimming again,
by them i was ammused since it looked a normal behaviour(but not the stopping midair)
then, some swims after, the shrimp stopped, fell, touch ground, and jumped back like something had touch him on front(like a net when we want to grab them), then he touch ground and did the same, then he touch ground and fell on the side not able to remain standed, but still moving his legs,

this last stage was happening hours after he fell, and...after i floush them on a attempt to end their misery :icon_cry:
I even placed them on the fish net near the filter flow, to help them breathe but didnt help..


Describing this occurences, i must say again that all of them were with good colours and eating the flakes..

One can only immagine the horror of seing that happen 3 times in a row :/


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## ravensgate (May 24, 2012)

Ammonia poisoning I think makes them run very spastically around the tank. Lack of oxygen and they'll head towards the surface.

Have you ever seen a shrimp molt before? Here's a video of mine






If they can not get the exoskeleton to budge they will swim in a panic and jerk around the tank. If they make it through the first step of pulling it over the face a bit, if it doesn't crack/give they will do the jerk, fall, jerk, fall trying to get it off. When they lay on their side they are suffocating. Now this is what I have witnessed on my own, there may very well be other things that cause the exact same behavior. In my tanks and what I've experienced that's a failed molt. A shrimp doesn't have to be half in and half out of a molt for it to be 'failed' sometimes the just don't bust right (see the video) or bust at all and the shrimp is trapped in them. I have rescued and saved several going through bad molts but only if the crack in the carapace has been established. 

If it were some sort of poisoning I would think you would first find all the shrimp avoiding the source and they would be at the surface seeking more oxygen.


Also, if the other 3 molt every time you change the water you are not matching your water correctly. That's a quick way to kill them by causing premature molts. YOu need to make sure the water is close to the tank water in terms of TDS and GH and that the temperature is the same. Water change water with lower params such as GH and TDS and colder temps will force molts. If you don't know the information you need to be dripping the water change water back in slowly. That way the shift isn't as sudden.


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## Aganor (Oct 6, 2013)

They did that move your shrimp did right after he moved out of the shell, that jerk movement!


They dont always molt right after the WC, but i noticed they molt by that time but not immediately,
I make sure the water is the same, specially the temperature,

The pieces are getting together, seems it was really a molting problem after all,

The strange part is that they were in the tank for only a day after they died, did the shell get hard that fast? :/

They sometimes go to the surface but its hard to say they are trying to get away since they just go up and stay a little swimming with the nose on the edge and then go down but not on a vertical way, so i dont think its a runaway move lol


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## ravensgate (May 24, 2012)

No, they won't molt immediately when you do a water change if you don't match params. I'm saying, if you do a water change and in the next 24-36 hours you have a bunch of molts then your dropping your params somehow. And if you don't have a test for GH or a TDS meter that's why, those are the two things you need to get right with water changes (besides temp). You actually have no idea if your water is matching outside of what you test for. And you have no idea if the shrimp you had purchased had just molted in their old tank and then the sudden shift in params forced a premature molt in your tank. There are lots of variable that can be at play here, I highly recommend you get a GH test and a TDS meter.


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## Aganor (Oct 6, 2013)

Indeed, i may be being fooled about the fact my pH and kH is stable, 

Ill start only changing water weekly, the N cylce seems to be completed,

Seems i placed the new and old shrimps in a stress situation, rescaping and changing water,

Thanks for the help, i hope they survive my recknesness :/


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## pink4miss (Aug 20, 2013)

they are 3 new shrimp i really don't believe its a molting issue. you even stated your ammonia went up when you played in the substrate. as ph raises ammonia becomes more toxic a ph of 8 is high.
2 lose 3 all at once doesn't say molting issue to me it says water quality. deaths happen fast with ammonia poisoning. your tank is small as are mine. i test ammonia very often. small tanks are very easy to throw the cycle off and get spikes


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## Aganor (Oct 6, 2013)

Yes indeed,
i use seachem sensor to monitor ammonia,
a rise is noticed in 15 minutes max,

But i use Prime on my water and when the 1st died, i used 1,5ml to 15lt of water wich is enough to remove any toxicity, 
maybe it was too late since the poison was already on their systems,

too many variables i guess, time to start removing them.

The total reasons still hover between water pollution and stress,
Makes sense in the newly fragile shrimps and the older ones being able to endure it,
Doesnt make me more easy minded since i need to tamper with the water chemistry if my gH is too high, and in that small tank, its not something i feel confortable at all :/

On the bigger one i have ADA aquasoil and will use EI method, so water will go down on the pH but this tank is another issue,

Maybe i should try to use DI water on the WC to steadly removing some hardness but im not sure about that


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## pink4miss (Aug 20, 2013)

hey i noticed your using the bio maxx ( i think thats what thats called) media in your tank to try and get more bacteria going. have you ever seen that seachem product called matrix. it looks nice enough to add to a scape. its small porous rocks that does what the bio maxx does http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=4022 i honestly don't know how well adding bio media to a tank works because i have never tried it, but at least the matrix you could scape in as a path or something. i have small filters on all my nanos like your filter and they really don't seem to hold enough stuff for good filtration  so I'm also trying to think of ways to add more bacteria growing things to my nano tanks without taking away from the looks of them. lava rocks might also work well. but for me i have bettas and have to keep things soft for them in the tank so they don't damage their tails.


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## pink4miss (Aug 20, 2013)

i have the fluval substrate in my shrimp tank , at first i had sand, i syphoned it all out and put the fluval substrate in and seen a ph slow drop in a 2 days i would say. its been holding 6.5 ph from a 7.6-7.8 ph but I'm reading that it will lose its buffering after a while. in a nano though its easy to take out 1/3 of the substrate in a few months and replace with new till the whole tank is done. if needed so I'm not to concerned about this.

as far as tap water and de chlorinating , i was just using this and topping offf with it also. after a while about a month i seen my TDS raising to high levels in the 500 range. so i bought distilled water and used that in small water changes till the TDS got where i wanted it. my tap water always reads about 214 so over time the evaporation and adding all that tap water my TDS started to raise. so toping off with distilled to keep levels stable is the best bet


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## Aganor (Oct 6, 2013)

They look nice but the biommax are only temporary until i either buy a bigger HON filter or the substrate plus the bio ceramics inhace from JBl on the filter holds enough bacteria,
This tank is supposed to be an hospital tank after i flood my main 10g tank 
The bio filled media works aince my ammonia is 0 from a fresh filter so i guess it works nicelly 
That or the fact i use treated tap water day after day so i need to see after a week of no changes (nos i use saran wrap to hold evaporation and prevent bubbles burst to wet the wooden floor like it had done lol)

Tbh knowing gH and doing frequent changes, why do we need TDS? 


The bright side is that im home, tank is clear and Shrimps are alive,
Female is foraging and 1 male molted (last time one molted was last week) 
Since molting is being done i suppose gH inst that high, but i really hate not knowing it!

Im really happy for so much replyes, if not for you guys i was already a little depressed by the unknown losses


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## pink4miss (Aug 20, 2013)

here is a good explanation of TDS http://www.theaquariumsolution.us/tds-what-does-it-mean-and-why-should-i-test
handheld units are fairly inexpensive, i picked up 40.00 unit ( hanna prime) cheap on ebay 20.00 delivered to my door. but you can get 9.00 units new of lesser quality. i would say stick with a name brand. they don't lose calibration as some do that come from out of the country , they will also last longer from all i read while searching for what one to buy. i know hanna has a 20.00 unit that is said to be very good


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## Aganor (Oct 6, 2013)

erhm, sorry but i dont understand the 40.00, 20.00, 9.00 unit thing, is it like a model?


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## pink4miss (Aug 20, 2013)

Aganor said:


> erhm, sorry but i dont understand the 40.00, 20.00, 9.00 unit thing, is it like a model?


no its pricing of different TDS units


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## pink4miss (Aug 20, 2013)

sorry I'm not real good at explaining things i would stink as a teacher . its why i gave you the link to explain TDS . and tried to explain to get a name brand unit and don't waste your money on a cheaper unit


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## Aganor (Oct 6, 2013)

oh hehe, i was about to buy a 9.00 tds meter 

but then i read the definition and that puzzled me,
It tells us all the solids we have on water,
organic stuff like poo and leftovers count for it?
meaning, tds is the conductivity that a certain water have right?

If i test a DI water i use for cooling down my PC radiator, it will show a near 0 value am i right?
So bottom line, as i did read some explanation on the kH/pH/gH chemistry, tds is the means we can see if water is too conductive for fauna?

But doesnt it have to do with the osmoliosis of the fish membrane?

Some fish are made for higher gH meaning their membranes can hold more salts, and the opposite as well, so a high TDS can tell us what? that fish that prefer soft water are not confortable with the water of higher TDS?

This seems a lot like me as measuring gH, the difference seems that gH is measuring the Ca ions and TDS measures everything,

Did i miss/wronged anything?


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## pink4miss (Aug 20, 2013)

maybe others will chime in on TDS meters and their experience with different units.

you will have to add minerals to a zero TDS water in your tank. you have cherry shrimp which like a TDS of 200 to 400 TDS is a different measurement than KH or GH


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## Aganor (Oct 6, 2013)

pink4miss said:


> maybe others will chime in on TDS meters and their experience with different units.
> 
> you will have to add minerals to a zero TDS water in your tank. you have cherry shrimp which like a TDS of 200 to 400 TDS is a different measurement than KH or GH


Maybe the question is what stuff is that CRS like to make a high value of TDS,

TDS wont be much a help once i use my planted tank with EI dosing, but for now seems a good indicator, too bad it will take some weeks from HK to Portugal :/

EDIT: Just bought the "Digital LCD TDS3", got good reviews and any calibration needed, i can always do the solution at home, since i got my 0,01g scale 


Now, lets assume i test my water for TDS and it gives me 200 TDS, 
what then? What do i know about this?
water is filled with minerals? if water is clear, is it filled with organic stuff?


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## pink4miss (Aug 20, 2013)

Aganor said:


> Maybe the question is what stuff is that CRS like to make a high value of TDS,
> 
> Minerals
> 
> ...


im not a chemist and can only tell what i have found. sorry i can't help more with explanation


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## ravensgate (May 24, 2012)

* i believe its like they say not to drink 0 tds water as it actually pulls minerals from your body to get back to a certain state. i believe this is why they say not to use zero TDS water that some organic's need to be in it *

Ummmm, no. Labeled drinking water is 0 TDS water. 0 TDS water does not pull minerals from your body.


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## ravensgate (May 24, 2012)

Aganor said:


> Now, lets assume i test my water for TDS and it gives me 200 TDS,
> what then? What do i know about this?
> water is filled with minerals? if water is clear, is it filled with organic stuff?



You know your water has a TDS of 200. Do you know what makes up the TDS? No, not necessarily. But in the world of shrimpkeeping you are given an 'ideal' number and that's what you shoot for when it comes to TDS. YOu need to know GH and TDS to be sure your water will enable the shrimp to molt properly. It's really that simple.


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## pink4miss (Aug 20, 2013)

ravensgate said:


> * i believe its like they say not to drink 0 tds water as it actually pulls minerals from your body to get back to a certain state. i believe this is why they say not to use zero TDS water that some organic's need to be in it *
> 
> Ummmm, no. Labeled drinking water is 0 TDS water. 0 TDS water does not pull minerals from your body.


Thank you for your clarification on my error Sorry….i should have worded that different, and been more clear *RO/DI WATER* DeIonized water can be problematic as it has all the ions stripped out and can lead to electrolyte imbalance.


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## Rony11 (Jan 21, 2012)

My tank is 2yrs old planted tank with RO and CO2 +ph controller

Everytime I change water I match the TDS with TDS meter mine is HM Digital to the exact parameters of the tank water. 
My RO is 2-3 PPM I raise it to 190ppm to match my CRS tank parameters with Shirakura Mineral liquid CA+ . 
After a bit of experiementing I've learnt how many drops of liquid mineral should be added to a certain volume of water to reach the desired TDS.
Yet I check all the time with TDS meter. 
Once I've reached the desired TDS I siphon out the old water carefully avoiding to disturb the substrate as much as possible to avoid an ammonia spike.

I check my tank parameters like PH, GH, KH, Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate once a month . 
I used API tests now I've moved to Elos water tests. 
I've learnt that the strip tests are not accurate so I stick to the test tube tests which are more reliable than strips

I clean the substrate once a month with an airline attached to a plastic pipe which suck dirt from the substrate but do it very carefully.
I added the CRS when the tank was quite mature so did not have issues with CRS.

I clean the external filter once a month.
I have Sera siporax, JBL Floss, original black sponge that came with the Tetratec 700 external filter. 
I also have a small bag of Cuprisorb and Clearmec in one of the filter baskets.

I have a chiller and a heater with temp.controller so my tank temp. is quite stable 24 degrees.

The key to successful shrimp keeping is stability be it water parameters, feeding, temperature, etc.


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## larns576 (Mar 26, 2012)

I use the TDS meter everytime I do water changes. 

Let's say I measure my GH at 5 and TDS at 120, and assume KH is 0. From that, we know GH 5 = TDS 120. Everytime I mix up some RODI water for water changes, I just add remineralizer till it reaches TDS 120 instead of dripping solution into the test tube to measure GH, then add more remineralizer, drip solution again, etc. All I do now is turn on the TDS meter and take an instant reading and aim for TDS 120.


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## Aganor (Oct 6, 2013)

I believe that the fact my tank wasnt ready for fauna made all harder, and the switch of hardscapes made it worst,

Now i will stand put until sunday and see how things go,
The problem is water evaporation, i have half the tank closed with saran wrap but it still evaporates on the other half, 
Is this a reason i should start adding DI water next time i WC?


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## pink4miss (Aug 20, 2013)

if you use the distilled water or RO for top off it will keep your TDS the same and will not raise it. until you get a TDS meter. 



either way if you decide to go the pure ro/di or ro or distilled water for water changes only without any tap water, you will need to add minerals as the above are saying. I'm sure if your going to go into shrimp that are more sensitive this is the best route. … as above is stating they do


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## Aganor (Oct 6, 2013)

I wont go to a complete DI/RO water since it will cost my eyes and there is no need,
My water is not dirty, i was the one making it dirty lol

After i know the gH and TDS, but enfasys on gH, then i have to think on how to lower pH,
maybe some peat i guess.


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## pink4miss (Aug 20, 2013)

i seen this that looked interesting borneowild humic http://www.theshrimptank.com/water-conditioners/borneowild-humic-60g/ wonder how well it works?


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## Aganor (Oct 6, 2013)

heh, cant have my hands on it at good prices 
there are "n" products to lower pH naturally, 
On my main tank, i have ada AS, so my pH wont be high, but in this small tank, i have nothing to lower the pH,

One thing i could do was to place something amongst the revervoir water to do the changes, since i have almost no space for peat on the tank
maybe i should buy a bigger HOB filter afterall lol


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## Rony11 (Jan 21, 2012)

These are my tips for setting up and managing a shrimp tank

1.Cycle yr tank minimum 4 weeks for neo's and 6-8 weeks for caridina's

2.Choose a substrate which is best suited for yr shrimps and yr pocket. I use Fluval for shrimps, Brightwell substrate, New Amazonia II.

3.I check the water parameters on the 4th week or 7-8th week atleast twice a week a different hours of the day

4.If I plan to add shrimp compatiable fish (Ottos, Musquito Rasbora) I quarantine them separately for atleast a week before adding them to the tank.

5.I try to buy shrimps from local hobbyists sometimes I buy from shops but ones who have experience handling shrimps and other hobbyists vouch for the seller and quality. I ask the seller to add a small piece of plant/moss for the shrimps to hold onto until I reach home.

6.I avoid taking the shrimps for errands. I arrive home ASAP check the TDS from the bag n then the tank start the drip accimilation immediately. 

7. The accimilation take from1-6 hrs depending on the TDS from the sellers tank and my tank. Upon finishing the accimilation I turn off the tank lights ,move the shrimp into a small bag and float it in the tank for 30 mts to match the tank temp check the temp.n TDS again before releasing them to the tank. 


8. For the first 3 days I do not feed n check their behavior. If the shrimps arrive sick or carry a disease one can notice within a week or two I use the necessary meds like Paraguard, Furanol 2.

9.Water changes 10-15 per cent weekly. I remineralize RO and drip the water in caridina tanks whereas in neo's use tap water with anti-chlorine and chloramin add directly to the tank water that has been sitting for atleast 24 hrs.

10. I do not disturb the substrate during water changes. I clean the substrate once a month using an airline with a small plastic pipe to suck in the dirt. I avoid making changes in decoration, moving driftwood, uprooting plants, etc in order to avoid Ammonia spike. 

11.I feed thrice a week diff.foods Shirakura, Borneo wild, Azoo, Shrimp king, Frozen blood worms, etc remove the leftovers in 1-2 hrs max. 

12.I keep snails which eat algae (nerite snails), leftovers (bridgesi apple snails, pond snails,ramshorn) dig into and upturn the soil (MTS, Sulawesi rabbit snails-tylomania).

13.If it is difficult to remember (not everyone has a good memory) keep notes of water changes, feeding+ferts routine, berried shrimps, etc. 

14.I clean the external filter once a month and the internal sponge filter at the entrance of HOB or external filter intake atleast once in two weeks coz it gets clogged thus reducing the water intake.

15.Give yr tank 5 minutes every day if u have more than one then atleast spend 1 minute per tank to watch and check everything is fine.


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## Merth (Sep 9, 2012)

Just as an aside as I haven't seen any mention of it. My ph from tap is 8.2 with a kh of 9 (similar to yours) and the kicker gh of 0. I had to remineralize to get the gh up to allow my rcs to molt. I still had terrible results in the breeding department until I went with DI water and salty shrimp to remineralize. Once I had my ph at 7.0, my kh at 0-1, gh at 5-6, tds of 200-300 my rcs exploded in population. Plus allowing the tank to mature has given me a much higher survival rate on babies. I only clean the front glass (sometimes) and I always see babies grazing on the walls.


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## pink4miss (Aug 20, 2013)

my experience with the having blue velvet shrimp 2 months tops is, i purchased 20 from three different people (6 from 1, 6 from 1 and 8 from another) . in the beginning i had a betta in with them,i seen him eat one and i had 2 unexplained deaths apart from each other while the betta was in the tank and one shrimp jumped, all accounted for since i counted 16 …now after removing the betta…….
a shrimplet explosion … i can see different sized baby's in the tank and berried females and today see another 2 mating. my tank specks are ph at 6.5 -6.6 the temp of the tank is 76 degrees, kh 1-2 , gh 5-6, TDS is 280 i have mineral rock, bee balls, and use fluval substrate and lots of moss. i use tap water declorinated, my tap comes out at 211 to 214 constant TDS. i top off evaporation with distilled water, to keep my tds stable. molts are going well from what i can see. 
i feed a variety of foods, i use the baby shrimp food since spotting baby's. 

i think posting our tanks specks as above has done is a great idea to show how shrimp react to different tanks specs and what they are being kept at .


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## danielt (Dec 19, 2012)

It's useless to measure TDS if you're not using RO. Why? Because TDS affects shrimp differently from hardness. Osmotic pressure is something they need to deal with, hardness is something they need. Your tap might have the right TDS value but not the right hardness. You will need to correct hardness and in that process you will change TDS as well, hence, better to use RO in the first place.

Now for that ammonia spike, I don't believe in that notion. Surely, might be some truth behind it. I didn't happen to me no matter how much i stirred things up. You know why? ammonia is not something that sits in one place. It's a free ion, one very active free ion which will mix with the water molecules and bind with stuff it's compatible with. Stirring things up does not produce more ammonia or hastens its production. On the opposite, if your system cannot process the ammonia amount generated, it will collapse at some point. How? By adding more ammonia! In the form of livestock. You doubled the bioload of the system. If the cycle didn't have enough time to stabilize you get this. Why the new shrimp died? They were new, didn't had time to build up their strength and they were first to succumb.

There's the failed molting, a valid issue. If you don't know what params you got in there it's a good suspect. The other is the young tank or imbalanced nitrogen cycle.

If you buy the TDS meter, follow-up with a RO unit. Otherwise it's useless if TDS is caused by high Sodium, Phosphorus and/or Nitrates which can be plenty in your tap. Those substances do not count for hardness as far as shrimp molting goes. High Sodium might show up in your TDS reading, *might* even show up in your gH test as *some* tests will pick up any kind of ion positively charged. Two Sodium (Na+) ions can be picked up as one Calcium (Ca++) ion. Don't rely much on that gH test, like all tests, it tells half the story. Shrimp do well with 1 part Magnesium and 4 parts Calcium with a reading of around 6 german degrees. How sure can you be the gH test shows mainly Magnesium and Calcium? Use remineralized RO, of course! How sure can you be TDS shows the useful ions in your water to be changed? Use remineralized RO!


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## Aganor (Oct 6, 2013)

I understand and agree 110% with what you say but you are reffering to CRS and Tiger shrimp and all these sensitive shrimps right?

I choosed RCS due the fact i dont have means or money to a RO machine, besides the fact that i simply love these guys, 

Since i cant manipulate water as i will, i have to stick with the one i have, wich doesnt seem all that bad,
The ones i have molt well, a really bright exoskeleton, so i dont lack the minerals, so seems i have to play more with kH and less with gH (if gH would be really high, i guess some of the 3 would have died by now)
To play with kH maybe i should stick with decaying leaves or peat substrate/filter?

Btw, i can now see the stability issue here, yesterday night, after 1 day absent of my house, i could see the 3 of them foraging and being active (the female was spicy, going after the larger male and so), so my best bet would seem to measure gH, obviouly, and if i have a 6-8 ºd, i should stick with lower kH, consequentely lowering pH, agree?


Since i so wisely" removed the glass cover from my tank, now i have to place saran wrap until i place silicone again lol, or else, water just evaporates at a fast pace :/

About the ammonie issue, the thing i guess happened was the fact stirring things up moved a lot of organic stuff to water column, and with the passing hours, ammonia rised ( i could confirm that since the amonia sensor showing an increase), and with all things accumulated (different parameters, toxic levels, too young to endure), the 3 dead ones succumbed,
Its an error i will NOT commit again, next time i get my shrimps, it will be after a WC and driping the water to them, not bag floating them!


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## danielt (Dec 19, 2012)

Same bacteria that decays organic matter (breaks it down into inorganic compounds) is responsible for making ammonia.

Poor cycling of the tank does make these spikes, or allow them to occur. Poor cycling means young bio filter. Not enough nitrifying bacteria exist to absorb any excess ammonia. It's enough to feed them too much or too often once to create a spike, but that's ammonia input into the system in the form or organics such as food and shrimp poop.

Run your tank for another month or so as it is now. You can add more bioload each week, buy just one more shrimp with each passing week. Feed sparingly, once every couple of days and feed as little as possible.

Improve surface agitation, top-off with DI water if you have. Only DI, do not top-off with tap water! Don't struggle with kH, it doesn't harm your shrimp, it just keeps pH from dropping from the effect of CO2. Keep the water temp around 24 Celsius or lower. You can go as low as 20 degrees.

Peat will bring kH down but don't expect wonders, it acts slowly and by the time the kH gets lower you need to do a water change, and you'll put it right back. A good idea is to have a container in which to keep the water and run your peat in there.

6-8 degrees of hardness is ok for RCS, lower it's dangerous. Get used to drip acclimating your shrimp for 2-5 hours. Try to buy them as juveniles, adults cope less with the stress of changing water params.


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## Aganor (Oct 6, 2013)

Yes, my tank is way too young to have any fauna in there, that is why the constant WC until tank could get the ceramics you see in the picture ( i already have some inside the filter but only 15 small balls from JBL) so the bacteria could act fast and then grow on the new ceramics,
Since the shrimps were given to me, i wanted to do the possibles for the less stress to them, seems i did good, but failed being overconfident on bringing 3 more,

The thing is, you say to keep them on cooler waters but since my main tank will have RAMs (dont worry, plenty of place for the little ones to hide) and Paracheirodon Innesi's, i need the shrimps to get adapted to 25ºc

I believe the DI from the supermarket is ok since it says it has being twice desmineralized and no chemicals are shown, and its cheap, so i could cope the evaporation with that,
I have an Dehumifier but seems its not good for that since it may leech heavy metals from the tubigs, wich is sad, could be a free way of having water...


I do have a bucket of 50l closed with a 100lt black plastic bag so no infiltration or contamination occurs, could i put the peat on the bottom and each time i remove water, i place the same amount of water again so i dont disturb it?
I say peat but also leaves could make the trick i guess.


I made a video yesterday, wasnt supposed to be for show, but now you can see how the tank is, and how the "3 amigos" are 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lO721oiWd6w&feature=youtu.be

Also, here is a picture of the female exoskeleton after molt 2 days ago, i checked yesterday and it has been already eating by them,


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## pink4miss (Aug 20, 2013)

danielt said:


> It's useless to measure TDS if you're not using RO.


to say that a TDS meter is useless unless you use ro water is not accurate. i get your point that if you use total pure water you know what the tds ( dissolved solids) is that you are putting in. and yes RO water is always the best route. BUT if it wasn't for me getting a TDS meter i would not have realized that the disolved solids that the TDS meter was reading where building up in my tank from me topping of with tap water that was a 211-214 (varies on days) reading. i would not have seen this problem that my tds was at 500 plus and not have known to correct it. as for hardness the mineral rock and bee balls can be put in a tank to slowly release needed minerals to your tank.the same as you would be putting into RO water.
in this hobby i don't think there is ever a set rule. that there are many way to do things and have good results.


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## Aganor (Oct 6, 2013)

I did my WC today, 1 week after the last one,
Took 50% with no so disturbance this time and i compensated the loss of water due to evaporation with DI water,

I tested the DI and it gave me a 6-6,5 pH lol inwas expecting a neutral pH,
But it didint affect my overall parameters wich are still at 8 pH and 7 kH,
Nitrates were at 4ppm, wich i really cant explain,
1 week after no WC i was expecting way more

Unless the moss is consuming it or the cycle inst running due to low bioload of 3 shrimps,

They hardly noticed the WC,
My TDS meter and gH didnt arrive yet so i dunno if the parameters were too different


Btw, last week i gone to the store and surprise surprise, all shrimps were anihalated by some treatment that leached, the owner told me,
They had treated the tank next to it and somehow it leached to the shrimp tank and killed all of them,
I told him how my shrimps died and he will give me 3 when he stocka them

I dont think the reason was that one, only the fact they could be weak because of it,
Explains a lot i guess lol


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## Aganor (Oct 6, 2013)

HELP!!!!!

Another one is getting sick but this time seems different!

http://youtu.be/3qD6N401llk

He was hidden on the ceramics and when i touch him he wasnt responding but rapidly sprinted away

I isolated him, but before it i added a large dose of PRIME

NO2 at 0
NH3 0
NO3 4

WC was sunday

I..i realy dont know why he is like that,
I tried to help him in case he was trying to molt but no sucess and i dont even know if squeezing him gently was helpful


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