# AlgaeFix: Experiences, Experiments, and Thoughts



## cheesehead

*Similar experience, can't remember the product...*

I had the same thing happen, probably about 10 years ago. Sure, it got rid of the algae, but wiped out a whole tank of fish. I saw the same thing you did - respiratory distress.

I tossed the product straight out. I don't remember what it was, but it was from an allegedly reputable manufacturer.


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## mistergreen

Cool find. I never touch the stuff. 

Next time you get green water, accelerate their growth. Blast it with light. They'll consumer all the nutrients and die off.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## DarkCobra

mistergreen said:


> Next time you get green water, accelerate their growth. Blast it with light. They'll consumer all the nutrients and die off.


LOL! That's a new one. Will have to try next time the opportunity presents itself.


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## auban

mistergreen said:


> Cool find. I never touch the stuff.
> 
> Next time you get green water, accelerate their growth. Blast it with light. They'll consumer all the nutrients and die off.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD



that is something i have to keep an eye on in my live food cultures. if i expose my algae cultures to too much light, they produce fast but burn out pretty quick. i have never used the method to clear green water from a tank though... 

then again, i dont get green water problems, with how much light and CO2 i blast into my tanks...


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## hbosman

mistergreen said:


> Cool find. I never touch the stuff.
> 
> Next time you get green water, accelerate their growth. Blast it with light. They'll consumer all the nutrients and die off.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


But wouldn't dying algae provide nutrients for the still surviving algae, which would reproduce, more algae, some dying to feed still surviving?

I hate to admit it but, I've gotten rid of green water several times using flocculents such as SeaChem Clarity. I had to constantly exchange the micropad in the filter but it did work. Fortunately, I didn't lose any fish. Anyway, I learned not to disturb more than a third of the substrate at any one time so, I haven't had green water in years.


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## plantbrain

I used RCS which I have plenty of culls for, since they are more sensitive to most chemicals than fish.

I have elephant noses, which I can assure anyone, are some of the highest respiration rate and sensitive to chemical fish livestock out there. They where fine even if you treated 3 days in a row.

Algaefix is not suitable for GW from what I've seen and heard.
Hair algae and that's about all.

Plant cells and animal cells are extremely different on several major factors.
This is a Biology question on many exams: "What ways are plant and animal cells different? List 5 key differences"

Equating them is a huge stretch without support.
The EPA's Environment toxicity report on aquatic organism is a bit like the NO3 issue, it's for Blue Gill and trout, trout are extremely sensitive vs a war water tropical fish species. Even so, the EPA report suggest that fish are more at risk to dose than invertebrates(they tested Daphia only). 

http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=EPA-HQ-OPP-2007-0834-0017


Plants are not at risk, going about 73ppm, vs 0.28 for Daphia and 0.21 for Blue Gill. 
Duckweed is .63 ppm or so.

Without specific test on specific species, it's hard to say. Shrimp are definitely far more sensitive to this product than ANY fish. I've tested this and see no evidence of any fish issues with perhaps 20-30 species, many of which are touchy species compared to things like guppies. Tetras, rare plecos, elephant nose, small cichlids, typical stuff plant folks keep. It is more toxic to green algae that diatoms of BGA, 6x to 100x etc more so.
Most of the diatoms are about like the sensitive fish in terms of toxicity.

CO2 kills fish to, but plenty of people use it:icon_idea
If you do not use it correctly, you will kill your fish with CO2, plenty/many do.
Point is: shrimp will die long long before any fish does. I also tried the 1/2 dose, this had no difference on the algae(still killed it effectively), and still killed a few RCS. Fish had no issues. 

Fish stress when you dose CO2 also, but we still have people dosing CO2 24/7 without the same critique:icon_excl 
Similarly, we add Excel and CO2 to shrimp tanks, but that reduces the fry production.

How much risk you want to apply/accept is something we all do in this hobby. Suggesting that it's too risky is no different than people saying CO2 is too risky. It is very specific to hair algae and thus a 1-2x treatment type of thing for a few days. So it's not something hobbyists use 24/7/365. 
Note: Algaefix and Algae Destroyer(copper based) are 2 very different products, I've sure a few folks have thought they are the same thing.

Toxicology test suggest 2-3x a Excel dosing as Glut is very toxic to many species also, but many do it. 
Like Glutaraldehyde, Busan 77 is also a microbiocide. Same with H2O2....and you can kill fish and stress them using those products as well.


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## DarkCobra

Let me address this first, should anyone skim my original post and believe I must be an idiot because they then see:



plantbrain said:


> Plant cells and animal cells are extremely different on several major factors.
> This is a Biology question on many exams: "What ways are plant and animal cells different? List 5 key differences"
> 
> Equating them is a huge stretch without support.


I never even remotely suggested this. What I said in a nutshell is:

1) Busan 77 affects algae by causing their cells to absorb water until they burst.
2) It affects animal gills by disrupting O2 exchange in the cells.

Both of which are well documented, no stretches or assumptions on my part.



plantbrain said:


> Algaefix is not suitable for GW from what I've seen and heard.
> Hair algae and that's about all.


Then you've had atypical results. It only takes a quick Google search to easily find dozens, if not hundreds of people who've had great results with AlgaeFix on green water.

Rapid fish death, with symptoms of respiratory distress, is also an atypical result. Still, it does happen, regardless of whether you personally have witnessed it or not.

Now while I didn't make the particular "huge stretch" you previously claimed, I admit I have made a stretch in presuming to know the reason for these rapid fish deaths. I have only tenuous documentation in my favor, and a few experiments.

If I'm wrong, then nothing whatsoever is lost by splitting AlgaeFix into smaller, more frequent doses. If I'm right, and people take my advice, it may prevent a few needless deaths; which is a definite gain.

Yet I've waited two years to write up this information. Between my own uncertainty, and those who seem to feel the need to discredit any new idea, I felt it likely that _no one_ would end up trying it. Making both the initial write-up, and subsequently addressing misleading statements like the first I've quoted from you, an utter waste of effort.

I sincerely hope this will not be the case.



plantbrain said:


> The EPA's Environment toxicity report on aquatic organism...


I've looked up many toxicity reports on my own, looking to find evidence that either supports or refutes my own hypothesis. And I found them insufficient, because they all lack a key piece of information.

They _do_ tell us that a certain amount of Busan 77, constant over a period of a few days (or weeks), was lethal to 50% of the test species.

They _don't_ tell us _when within that test period the fish died_.

If, for example, the death rate were observed only to rise over time and particularly at the end, then this suggests only chronic toxicity is a factor.

But if there is also a distinct peak at the beginning, then this could support my hypothesis of respiratory distress, caused by a sudden increase in the amount of chemical.

Now if you can provide any report that includes this information, that would be truly useful.


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## 13B-RX3

I just added the recommended dosage of Algaefix to my 55 gal. I was planning on hitting it three days in a row (no fauna). Should i do water changes between dosage or just wait till the end? I am keeping an eye on the filter and am ready to change the filter floss. Also would adding a flocculant help remove the algae from the water faster?


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## DarkCobra

13B-RX3 said:


> I just added the recommended dosage of Algaefix to my 55 gal. I was planning on hitting it three days in a row (no fauna). Should i do water changes between dosage or just wait till the end? I am keeping an eye on the filter and am ready to change the filter floss. Also would adding a flocculant help remove the algae from the water faster?


What algae are you treating? From the question about flocculant, I'm guessing it's primarily green water. Flocculant shouldn't be necessary. I'd do a big water change just before the 2nd dose, because that's when you'll see the greatest nutrient spike, released from killed algae.


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## 13B-RX3

It's hair Algae on the substrate and some of the older plant growth. As for the water i don't know it it's tannis or algae. It's yellowish clouding that always comes back within a few hours of water changes. As soon as i added the Algaefix the water turned from a cloudy yellow to more of a white color.


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## 13B-RX3

Did a 50% water change and hit it with the second dose. Same as before, water got a little cloudy when added. It definitely is taking it's toll on the Algae! Filter floss was pretty dirty so i went ahead and changes it. I would say the Algae was reduced about 40% after the first 24 hours.


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## sub-80

There's an algaecide from API called Algae destroyer advanced has anyone used it? any good?


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## DarkCobra

If I recall correctly, Algae Destroyer _used_ to contain a different active ingredient, Simazine, which worked by shutting down photosynthesis. It was just as effective at killing plants as algae.

Now Algae Destroyer appears to contain the same active ingredient as AlgaeFix, in the same amount.

Despite the change, I'm guessing they kept it as two separate products just so people could continue to buy a brand they're familiar with; only adding "Advanced" to the name to signify the reformulation.

Maybe because of its old reputation, I haven't seen any reports of using Algae Destroyer in planted tanks. If you want to make 100% sure there are no differences, I'd suggest contacting API.


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## Freeasabird

I used my first dose 2 nights ago and I got a spike of nitrite. I thought it was just temporary from excess ammonia from dead/dying algae so I did a 80% water change last night. As of tonight I again have registered nitrites, .25-.50, where before I never got any. Does anyone suppose algaefix kills beneficial bacteria?


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## plantbrain

DarkCobra said:


> 1) Busan 77 affects algae by causing their cells to absorb water until they burst.
> 2) It affects animal gills by disrupting O2 exchange in the cells.
> 
> Both of which are well documented, no stretches or assumptions on my part.


Without any concentration mentioned, it does make a big difference and specifically to say trout vs say a warm water fish.

Take NO3 for example, it's very toxic to trout fry, but to guppies? Tetras? 
I also made mention of selectivity to shrimp vs fish, both have gills but shrimp are far more sensitive to the product as labeled.

This is about all I _know.
_


> Then you've had atypical results. It only takes a quick Google search to easily find dozens, if not hundreds of people who've had great results with AlgaeFix on green water.


I tried it 2x, did not work. Broke out the UV.
Green water might be milder perhaps, or higher light in the tank I had might be the cause, if it "works", it should work for most everyone. Several other hobbyists I know tried it and failed, does not work on GDA BTW.




> Rapid fish death, with symptoms of respiratory distress, is also an atypical result. Still, it does happen, regardless of whether you personally have witnessed it or not.


I have elephant noses which are certainly by any experienced fish keeper's experiences, some of the more touchy species. In the cases where fish issues did occur that I read off the web, the aquarist had other issues and did not take good care of the tank to begin with. Most of the people agreed on those post with that assessment. I watched the fish closely. I saw some evidence perhaps of the fish not liking it.

But...........for a few hours, the same cannot be said for CO2 gas enrichment. That causes stress as well. Lots more death and risk associated there than a one time treatment here or there with algaefix for hair algae. 
Green water? There's are a few different non chemical ways to get rid of that.

Hair algae? Much tougher.

So the issue is highly specific and the dose treatment is relatively brief.
So not many folks will have many issues I would reason.

Shrimp folks? Oh yea. They would not be happy. 
I got plenty of RCS to torture and kill. 





> Now while I didn't make the particular "huge stretch" you previously claimed, I admit I have made a stretch in presuming to know the reason for these rapid fish deaths. I have only tenuous documentation in my favor, and a few experiments.


Well, I'm not sure, I can only say what I've seen.
The fish I have did not die or appear overly stressed near as I could tell.
This is about 700-1000 fish total.
So quite a few, maybe 20-25 species.

What I read on line suggested user errors and care more than the product itself.



> If I'm wrong, then nothing whatsoever is lost by splitting AlgaeFix into smaller, more frequent doses. If I'm right, and people take my advice, it may prevent a few needless deaths; which is a definite gain.


*Agreed*. I tried 1/2 doses split for 2 days. Same result with hair algae, but, still killed shrimp some. No difference with fish.

I'm not certain if the % mortality with the shrimp was similar vs full dose. 
Did not do a count for the 1/2 dose treatment and I only did one treatment like that.

I'll likely keep doing the 2 day 1/2 dose method if need be in the future.

I think the utility is your advice is reduced shrimp mortality. While people seek to reduce fish stress, I think 1-2 days of mild stress is not going to be a big issue for most.

Shrimp deaths? Well.........that is a deal breaker for most.
Still, not a bad selling point: less stress to fish.

Good either way.





> Yet I've waited two years to write up this information. Between my own uncertainty, and those who seem to feel the need to discredit any new idea, I felt it likely that _no one_ would end up trying it. Making both the initial write-up, and subsequently addressing misleading statements like the first I've quoted from you, an utter waste of effort.
> 
> I sincerely hope this will not be the case.


Why wait 2 years to write it up? Input, develop, hone, improve, address questions etc. Dosing 1/2 doses is a new idea? Would you want me to agree with EVERYTHING you say?

Hehe, come on. If the idea is good, it will easily stand up on it's own .......and anyone with any common logic will go "okay, that's correct(or not)". 

Maybe I need to go back and run a few more runs with the product and look specifically are respiration rates, or try it on green water a few times more. I see value in those comments.



> I've looked up many toxicity reports on my own, looking to find evidence that either supports or refutes my own hypothesis. And I found them insufficient, because they all lack a key piece of information.
> 
> They _do_ tell us that a certain amount of Busan 77, constant over a period of a few days (or weeks), was lethal to 50% of the test species.
> 
> They _don't_ tell us _when within that test period the fish died_.


They should have a mortality curve somewhere in the data. Mortality vs time/dose(concentration vs time). A regression curve etc. Extrapolated etc. 

It would be unusual for a published data NOT to have this information in the full paper.

The issue for us is the time frame, and the binding with soil(ADA AS, MTS etc). We dose a smaller amount and then have these other things that bind it rapidly. Then water changes and a cocktail soup of ferts, CO2 etc, plants and uptake by them......And it's not an easy test to measure Busan 77 in tank water.

I can do this for H2O2 or Glutaraldehyde.



> If, for example, the death rate were observed only to rise over time and particularly at the end, then this suggests only chronic toxicity is a factor.
> But if there is also a distinct peak at the beginning, then this could support my hypothesis of respiratory distress, caused by a sudden increase in the amount of chemical.
> 
> Now if you can provide any report that includes this information, that would be truly useful.


I'll find a mortality vs time curve for you. :icon_idea

Some day I'll do the time vs Glut decay. If you'd like, I can ship the Glut test kit I have here as a spare. The only requirement is that you document and share the info. I will not be doing it for at least 4-5 more months.


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## vnghost

i admit i didnt read the whole conversation but if it helps, i used algaefix at half doses with no ill effects on fish, shrimp, or snails. i dosed twice in one week at half doses in a 8 gallon tank. i sent the rest of the unused bottle to my cousin stationed in japan for his really bad case of green water in his 90 gallon tank. i told him only dose half, green water cleared within 2 days and his fish are all fine.


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## 13B-RX3

I noticed after dose two that very little additional Algae was removed if any. Maybe the smaller doses spread out is more effective. Rather than a third dose i did another water change and added fauna. Hopefully the changes i made will keep it at bay!


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## DarkCobra

plantbrain said:


> Without any concentration mentioned, it does make a big difference and specifically to say trout vs say a warm water fish.
> 
> Take NO3 for example, it's very toxic to trout fry, but to guppies? Tetras?
> I also made mention of selectivity to shrimp vs fish, both have gills but shrimp are far more sensitive to the product as labeled.
> 
> This is about all I _know._


For chronic exposure or toxicity, I agree. Impossible to predict how any particular species will react other than generalizations. Does anyone even know exact how it kills when overdosed? I did find some papers saying long-term exposure to surfactants reduced viability of gill tissue, but these were not specific to Busan 77.



plantbrain said:


> I tried it 2x, did not work. Broke out the UV.
> Green water might be milder perhaps, or higher light in the tank I had might be the cause, if it "works", it should work for most everyone. Several other hobbyists I know tried it and failed, does not work on GDA BTW.


That is weird. Normally it has visible effect within hours, and many would consider green water to be the thing it's _most_ effective for. There has to be some particular reason it didn't work in these case, rather than it just being generally ineffective, though I don't know what it would be. Carbon? Purigen? UV? PH? My success was in a low tech tank with none of those. No CO2. GH=1, KH=8, PH=~8.2.



plantbrain said:


> *Agreed*. I tried 1/2 doses split for 2 days. Same result with hair algae, but, still killed shrimp some. No difference with fish.
> <<<snipped by DarkCobra to merge related paragraphs>>>
> I think the utility is your advice is reduced shrimp mortality. While people seek to reduce fish stress, I think 1-2 days of mild stress is not going to be a big issue for most.


Mmm, no. Seems like what you're suggesting is to use a smaller dose, when it will still get the job done, instead of using the full dose as directed on the bottle. Which is certainly sage advice.

But what I'm suggesting is that if someone plans to use the full dose anyway (for example against resistant algae), then each full dose should be broken up into smaller doses, spaced hours apart; as a precaution only against the respiratory distress some have observed. I have not tested this on shrimp, nor do I plan to - at any dose. Toxicity due to constant exposure of a particular level, and respiratory distress due to a sharp increase, are two completely separate effects in my opinion. My method is intended only for the latter, shrimp will still suffer the toxic effect.



plantbrain said:


> I'll find a mortality vs time curve for you. :icon_idea


That would be great.



plantbrain said:


> Some day I'll do the time vs Glut decay. If you'd like, I can ship the Glut test kit I have here as a spare. The only requirement is that you document and share the info. I will not be doing it for at least 4-5 more months.


That too would be great. I'd love to know typical decay rates for aquariums, the few I've seen are for outdoor environments. I have five tanks at my disposal for it with various setups, and will happily document glutaraldehyde decay rates in as many situations as the kit will allow. I'll PM my address to you, and should you decide to send it, let me know if there's any particular tests, conditions, or procedures you want followed.


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## penpal

I've had good results with Algaefix even with higher dosage. I had some bushy clado for a long long time in my tank that I could never get rid of it so I finally gave in and used it. I dosed the recommended amount EVERYDAY for a week and there was no ill effects on the fish or the plants. The discus, otos, and rams were all fine, didn't lose a single one. The clado though was pretty much all dead by the third day, I just wanted to make sure I got it all.

A side note, doesn't dead/dying algae release ammonia? if you had a ton of dying/dead algae like green water would that not cause a spike and in turn kill your fish.


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## jester56

I apologize if this has been mentioned already. But Chad started a very good thread on AlgaeFix and mosses. It gathered other good info as it rolled along. 

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=197452&highlight=


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## plantbrain

AMPS has a few studies:

http://www.apms.org/japm/vol43/v43p100.pdf

This one is good because it shows how ineffective Barley straw is, when back in the day, everyone was claiming it worked. It does show that the selectivity is different among BGA(and the genus that pesters us) and green algae. Economics are not a factor for chemical use for aquarist however.


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## jester56

I dosed AlgaeFix a few times in my 50 with no obvious ill effects. Tonight, I went poking around to make sure all was well. It was, with one exception. One of my moss balls was looking like it was filtering all the dirt in the tank. I picked it up and found that there were brown spots on it and the bottom was almost all brown. Probably should have taken them out before dosing.


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## DarkCobra

*Another test*

I decided to perform one more test. This time taking a bigger risk by doing it in my main tank with more diverse population, instead of smaller ones. It's a 46G, high light and heavily planted, with 30ppm CO2.

A bit of staghorn, mostly on old and deteriorating vesuvius sword leaves that should be removed anyway; a little more on lower light plants that got too much light and flow. I'll be interested to see the effect (and will definitely trim the plants later). But this is primarily to validate my earlier results in regards to the suspected respiratory effects of AlgaeFix; and the utility of using smaller, more frequent doses to give fish time to adapt.

I removed the bamboo shrimp and Marimo balls. Remaining livestock is guppies, swordtails, cories, neons, otos, cherry barbs, many red ramshorn snails, a golden loach, and a juvenile Ryukin.


*2013-01-13:*

4:00pm: Measured out a full dose of AlgaeFix as recommended on the bottle, 4ml. The plan is to add it 25% at a time, with three hours between each fractional dose. Added first fractional dose with a dropper, 1ml.

7:00pm: No adverse effects observed, added another 1ml.

7:15pm: Almost all guppies now staying at surface of water, some gulping air. Clear respiratory distress. CO2 is still 30ppm, oxygenation should be fine since I'm already seeing heavy pearling. Also, the swordtails are hiding. Did not see this in any of my previous tests, with fractional doses spaced further apart. Too much, too fast?

8:00pm: Quick recovery. Most guppies and swordtails now behaving normally. But one guppy is looking worse.

10:00pm: All now behaving normally except that one guppy, which is now having severe trouble maintaining normal orientation and buoyancy. It seems to want to stay at the surface, but it only goes periodically in bursts of effort; then soon sinks back down. This is a known weak strain, I previously lost two of its siblings due to a 70% water change. I hate to abort the test on account of this. I also hate to lose this guppy as it's extraordinarily beautiful. So as a compromise, instead of adding the next fractional dose, I turned off CO2, redirected wavemaker to water surface to more quickly reduce the level, and called it a night.


*2013-01-14:*

2:00pm: Turned CO2 back on, and returned wavemaker to normal orientation.

4:00pm: Lights on. The guppy has seemingly made a full recovery and adapted; it just took extra time, plus a reprieve from CO2 to help it past the crisis. Knocked on wood, and continued with the test. Added fractional dose #3 of 4. The staghorn looks very slightly diminished, could be my imagination. But also see some fish picking at it, which doesn't normally happen.

7:00pm: No adverse effects. Added final fractional dose.

1:00am: Lights out. No adverse effects seen at any time today.


*Conclusions:*

Well.. It didn't go exactly as planned. Respiratory distress occurred, despite spacing the fractional doses by what I thought was an adequate amount of time.

It seemed to be species specific. Only the guppies and swordtails were affected. Basically, all the livebearers. None of the egglayers were visibly affected, even the scaleless ones normally considered sensitive.

Had I dosed the entire amount at once, I expect the instantaneous stress would have been enough that I'd need to abort entirely with a large water change to prevent many deaths, maybe losing some anyway. And then my lady probably would have killed me, too. Dosing fractionally saves lives! 

Will take a few more days to see the effects on algae. I'll post a follow-up with that, and anything else that might occur.


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## DarkCobra

And the follow-up.

Weekly water change and trimming performed.

Staghorn was slightly reduced. I didn't expect much, since its a red algae like BBA, which is considered resistant to AlgaeFix.

The guppy that was severely affected continues to do well, apparently no worse for the wear.

But another guppy that took longer to stop gulping at the surface than most has developed dropsy. This is an extremely rare occurrence in my tank keeping history, so it's hard to write this off as coincidental. It's currently being treated with Kanamycin medicated flake.


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## aokashi

Sorry if I missed it. but has anyone tested PH before adding and after adding the stuff?


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## Fishmommy

I wish I had googled before I used AlgaeFix. I killed about 10 fish with it using the full dosage.
I have continued using it at half dosage but the fish seem to dislike it (you can tell when they taste it in the water they go crazy) and it doesn't get rid of the ugly black algaes in my experience. I am thinking of throwing in the towel on this chemical band-aid.


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## puopg

Fishmommy said:


> I wish I had googled before I used AlgaeFix. I killed about 10 fish with it using the full dosage.
> I have continued using it at half dosage but the fish seem to dislike it (you can tell when they taste it in the water they go crazy) and it doesn't get rid of the ugly black algaes in my experience. I am thinking of throwing in the towel on this chemical band-aid.


Sorry to hear man. I used reccomended as well, but i didn't get any fish loss. Not even my inverts died. And yea, red algaes like BBA arent affected at all. It works well against green algaes like spiro and clado.


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## ckraft

I've used it without adverse effect on fish and not too much effect on algae. I wonder if the different experiences might be due to dissolved substances in the water, either hardness or TDS. My water is rather hard, 55 GH, 12 KH, and about 1000 ppm TDS, If AlgaeFix does work by making the algae cell membrane leaky, then the higher osmotic tension of my water might make it less effective.

I've recently used it against chara in an outdoor container, the chara had a setback but returned as if nothing had happened. I need to try periodic repeat treatments, I guess.


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## jester56

I use it once in a while. I have a fifty with java fern, swords, giant red royals, hc, anubias and others. I have two gouramis and ten black longfin tetras.



















After reading the extensive information on this subject, I picked up the Frankenstein, "Fire Bad!" operating principle. The bad boy of the algae killers seems to be anything copper. It is indiscriminate in flora or fauna. The AlgaeFix does not have that. I go by the bottle dosage - for my 50... One teaspoon. I measure the exact amount and slowly drizzle, (as much as you can drizzle a teaspoon), it right into the spray bar flow. IMHO, the key is following the instructions to the letter.

I watch the fish close with them showing no excitability or stress. The water gets white-smoky for an hour or two, and clears. It puts a pretty good slap on the "easy" algae. BBA I have to either cut the affected leaf or remove the rock and scrub the Hell out of it. I do all this in separate combination of the 1-2 Punch. There always seems to be SOME small bit of algae. But it's maintenance that makes it easier to deal with.


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## DarkCobra

jester56 said:


> After reading the extensive information on this subject, I picked up the Frankenstein, "Fire Bad!" operating principle.


LOL!!



jester56 said:


> The bad boy of the algae killers seems to be anything copper. It is indiscriminate in flora or fauna.


No doubt. Never bothered to experiment with it, by itself or in combo, and probably never will. Some of the other commercial algae killers are almost as bad. One common ingredient works by blocking photosynthesis. I don't think I need to say more..


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## herns

DarkCobra said:


> If you have your own experiences, experiments, and thoughts, please share!


I got hair algae growing in my moss wall and it was pretty bad. Everytime I pull them the moss goes along.

After asking Tom Barr I decided to try from a small bottle. After 2 weeks I can see hair algae dissapearing. I lost one juvenile endlers. 

I bought 2 more 16oz bottles. Good product.


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## BruceF

10g with mild BBA 10drops of algaefix two days later the algae is dead.


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## Chris_Produces

BruceF said:


> 10g with mild BBA 10drops of algaefix two days later the algae is dead.


Did you directly apply the algaefix via syringe to the affected area or did you just drop the 10drops directly into the water in your tank?
Thanks :bounce:


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## plantbrain

Note, it does kill the green hair algae, it does NOT kill Caldophora.
Another alga that it did kill was a brown, likely diatom covered green brown hair algae that infested moss and aerial roots.

I've not seen any other species of algae that it kills, so it's highly specific.
Amano shrimp seem a bit more sensitive than RCS. Fish do not like it, but they seem pretty tolerant.

It has no effect on BBA I've seen in any tank.

It targets the cell wall channels and if you add enough of it, it'll kill plants too. 
QAC's is another general name for the active compound.


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## Smeagol

DarkCobra said:


> .....The active ingredient of AlgaeFix, Busan 77, is a surfactant. In more familiar terms, it's similar to soap; though this isn't a perfectly accurate comparison.


I'm confused, as usual. What is Busan 77? The bottle says the active ingredient of AlgaeFix is Poly[oxyethylene(dimethylimino)ethylene(dimethyliminio)ethylene dichloride].


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## DarkCobra

Busan 77 is the trade name for poly-yadda-yadda-dichloride, one of many names for the same thing, just much easier to type. 

I agree with [Plantbrain], Algaefix alone has no useful effect on BBA/staghorn, at least with recommended dosage and method.

Some of the Metricides contain an undisclosed surfactant, and people generally avoid them for that reason. Ironically, the surfactant is likely Busan 77, or something very much like it. Such combos are well-documented in medical and scientific areas, the surfactant improves cell absorption of glutaraldehyde, and therefore makes the combo a more effective sterilizer. 

So in principle at least, there is a synergy between Algaefix and Excel.

Though I've been using Metricide 28 for about a year, simply because I ordered it by mistake. The amount of surfactant is small, and the dosage even smaller, so the additional ingredient is too dilute to have any noticeable effect.

Dosing Metricide and Algaefix together, I may have noticed a small synergy. But it's too small to say for sure. Nothing like the obvious synergy between H2O2 and Excel.


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## Monster Fish

I used it to kill some pesky spirogyra tangled in my mosses no problem. However, I did notice that older bottles of the stuff don't really work so well even after six doses. So I picked up a bottle with a more recent production date and it killed the spirogyra after three doses.

Anyways, after treating some moss, how can I make sure that it's safe to return to my shrimp tank? I've rinsed the moss about ten times already and I just want to be sure there's no Algaefix residue left over.


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## Patriot

Interesting read

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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