# First planted tank, what would be best substrait for a newbie?



## Stone454 (Jun 1, 2013)

Well, one ditch the garden soil unless you plant on waiting to introduce fish after about 2 weeks of daily water changes, the garden soil tends to have a ton of chicken poo that will cause ammonia spikes, you cna combat it with water changes and planting a ton of fast growing stems, but I personally would not risk livestock unless I have been through it a few times.

go with the potting mix you will not have to sift out as much junk and it works really nice, I have been capping with a mix of eco complete or floramax and black diamond blasting sand, it works really well and will cut down the cost of course, I have potting mix or soil in most of my tanks, people can praise eco/floramax all they want nothing beats real dirt in my opinion


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## solchitlins (Sep 11, 2013)

Is the blasting sand mixed into the soil or capped on top? I'm worried it's sharp and might hurt cory cats


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## Stone454 (Jun 1, 2013)

opps i mis spoke I mix the potting mix with eco/floramax and cap with blasting sand, and your corys will be fine, there is that myth about their barbels getting damaged on anything but soft fine smooth sand, I do believe it's a fairytail I believe it's more about water quality not substate


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## steven p (Jun 22, 2012)

solchitlins said:


> Is the blasting sand mixed into the soil or capped on top? I'm worried it's sharp and might hurt cory cats


Not an issue. I've had Cory cats nearly burrow completely in blasting grit.


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## hello_rockview12 (Aug 20, 2013)

I voted for C, but using blasting grit as the cap is more economical. That's what I'm about to do. I dont want to spend $100 on special soils. Also, dont use the garden soil only the potting mix.


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## solchitlins (Sep 11, 2013)

Is blasting grit sold at lowes or HD?


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## hello_rockview12 (Aug 20, 2013)

solchitlins said:


> Is blasting grit sold at lowes or HD?


I understand the Black Diamond stuff is sold at Tractor Supply Store and is about $8/50 LBS. I also understand you want the 20/40 grit size. I just picked up a different product called Black Magic as it's all I can source here in Canada. It's basically the same. There are lots of threads here about Black Diamond Blasting Grit so there's a wealth of knowledge and experience with it should you go that route.


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## solchitlins (Sep 11, 2013)

I keep hearing about black diamond blasting sand and black beauty.

Is this just if you prefer black over the color of pool filter sand or is it better for other reasons?


so do I mix some black diamond in the dirt too or just cap with it?


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## solchitlins (Sep 11, 2013)

I returned that other stuff and bought Scott's premium top soil


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

solchitlins said:


> I returned that other stuff and bought Scott's premium top soil


Enjoy the ammonia spikes and yo yo drama with water quality using a 'premium' soil. (Betting it contains cow manure.)
The whole point of using MG organic choice potting mix is the steady low level nutrient release it provides. I use the organic rich potting mix for tanking and my thoughts on why it works have been posted at length over a thousand times I'm guessing. Offered a couple links in the other thread. 

(bag listed NPK as only 0.10-0.05-0.05) The potting mix contains only a small amount of soil and a very large portion of organic material (55-65% by volume). Listed on the bags as sphagnum peat moss, composted bark fines, leaves, twigs, wood chips and "pasteurized poultry litter" (cooked chicken crap).

Simply put it works, it works over and again for members all over the country. If you leave the plants in place there is no mess to deal with. Read a bit then start your tank and things will work out. 

HTH


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## solchitlins (Sep 11, 2013)

no offense dude but you might as well be speaking a different language, I explained I'm a complete newb.

On another forum 2 moderators both told me MGOCPM is too rich, I was told to either cut it with half other neutral substrate or return it and buy the Scotts.

And I quote "the soil you describe is too rich in nutrients and organic matter. You will need to prepare it in some way (soak and drain, mineralize) and/or mix it with some low nutrient, high cation exchange capacity (CEC) material (Turface, Safe-T-Sorb, Flourite, etc.)"

AND

"you definitely don't want to buy soil that has a lot of organic stuff in it. Compost, leaf litter, or stuff with "enriched" labels on it are NOT what you want. You want to choose soil that has a relatively low amount of organic stuff that can decay over time. I've used regular un-enhanced Scotts topsoil with great results many times over the years. Be sure to read the label though since apparently Scotts has a new product that has compost added to it, you don't want that brand."

and after I showed him the pic of it the second guy said "That is the soil I use and recommend."

So I can only go with the information I am given. 
I'm so sick of all of this, first I buy pool filter sand and people tell me it sucks and my tank is going to crash, so I returned it, then people tell me to buy it again and now the same thing with the soil. 










I don't see anything about manure on here


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## solchitlins (Sep 11, 2013)

how's safe t sorb compared to black diamond or even other substrates, I think it looks more natural, is it a good idea to cap with that?


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

The listed ingredients on the label pic you posted looks good (and with little difference from the MG product I use). 

No offense to anyone but opinions are like belly buttons.
The organic content debate is no different from any other topic and will never end. I mentioned this earlier as did another poster. If one or a hundred members on a forum are stating MGOCPM is too rich and has to be 'prepared for use' - soaked and drained, mineralized and/or mixed then good for them. There is a rather large number of folks posting right here (myself included) that have used it right out of the bag without picking anything out or mixing it and without any issues. I suggested earlier you select a direction then read up on it. If someone is recommending a combination of alternative products for tank use then look for or ask where they posted the results. Tank journals with pictures and a material list are always nice. I'll leave your threads alone if you like but I only post opinion on what I have actually used. I've used this stuff in over a dozen tank systems to date.

*M*iracle *G*row *O*rganic *C*hoice *P*otting *M*ix works. 
The labeling must be exact on the product for the Scott's potting mix to work without drama in an aquarium. The rest of the Scott's product line advertised as Miracle Grow bagged dirt will contain manures or other fertilizer additives and be too rich, and they make a number of similar products. 
(I own no stock in this company.) The small amount of poultry litter included in the mix I buy has only spiked ammonia on a single tank setup, it cleared with two water changes and about four day's leaving the tank sit. The rest of the tanks I've setup never had a hiccup. 

Safe t sorb should not be compared to black diamond, apples and oranges. 

Safe t sorb is similar to Flourite original but less dense so it's 'lighter' in the tank. It's kiln fired to a lower temperature and does seem to break down a bit over time but many post good results using it. Safe t sorb does have CEC value.

Better to compare black diamond (coal slag) to pool filter sand. It should be inert so it it won't effect water parameters in any way. 

I'm sure you will figure out what you want to do.
The forums can put too many voices in your ears sometimes.


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## VJM (Feb 9, 2013)

+1 on MGOCPM. I sift it to get big chunks out, but that's just me. Cap with sand, plant heavily, and you may never even see ammonia. I have not in both tanks where I planted heavily. My skimpily planted tank showed low ammonia for a week. 

Starting a new tank today, and definitely going with dirt. I have tried a few other substrates, including Aquasoil, and dirt is where it's at for me. 

Can't speak to your cap choices because I have only used sand, which works so well I can't see myself switching.


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## solchitlins (Sep 11, 2013)

thanks guy's I understand what you're saying and yes too many voices. I'm pretty sure what I have will be fine since others have used it too, as would have the MGOCPM.

about the cap.
When you say apples to oranges I guess you mean because one is neutral and the other has CEC value?

CEC value is a good thing to have in a cap right? Or is too much or a good thing? 
Right now I'm trying to move on to picking my cap. I take it folks have good luck with both products STS/PFS?

I think I might try STS because my last few cichlid tanks were all sand and I might enjoy a different look, as long as fish like it that is. I'm going to have corry cats I think. 

I have read that it's sort of too light and mixing in a little brown floramax helps keep the plants down. Does that sound like a good idea?


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## solchitlins (Sep 11, 2013)

this is safe T sorb, 100 pounds cost $8.66 at tractor supply, I read it has good CEC.
Looks pretty good to me, but it's really dirty


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## jonnyboy (Mar 13, 2013)

Just started mineralizing my MGOCPM! Going dirt and looking forward to it. I recommend reading this if you are dirting.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=152027

I didn't read through all the comments. Cap with basically anything. The smaller the gravel the better because it's easier to plant in and creates more surface area for more beneficial bacteria. Simple.

Don't over think the substrate. You just don't really need expensive stuff that already is infused with nutrients....will increase chances of algae blooms because of excess nutrients leeching into water column. The dirt is already going to do that.


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## solchitlins (Sep 11, 2013)

I read that, seems lot months worth of work to me.

I bought safe t sorb. Thinking about using it if I can get it clean


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## lochaber (Jan 23, 2012)

As said up above, there are about an infinite number of ways to set up a tank, and everyone is going to have their opinions and biases.

Along with that, every method is going to have at least some detractors and people who had a serious tank crash while running that setup. 

As to being new, I'd recommend some sort of low-tech set up. it will give you slightly less stuff to worry about, and while plant growth will be slower, you'll have less maintenance to worry about.

Safe-T-Sorb seems to have a pretty good reputation, I haven't used it myself, but I probably will on my next tank. As to cleaning - one method that is pretty clever and works great, is to stuff a bunch of the substrate in an old water/soda bottle, fill it with water, and then put it in the (filled) tank, and repeatedly squeeze it. - the substrate rains out the bottom, and almost all of the cloudiness remains in the bottle. I've also used this to add a sprinkling of substrate to an already running tank. Someone used to post a youtube vid link for this method, but I don't remember who it was or what the link url was. 

Another method I've had some luck with is to go ahead and put the dirty/minimally rinsed substrate in the tank, and then spray/shower the substrate with water (think watering can). This seems to 'wash' the fines down to the lower levels, and by the time the water is near the top of the substrate, switch to pouring in over newspapers/cloths/sponges, etc. to disperse the flow. I do this mostly because I'm too lazy to be bothered with repeated washings, but also because I've heard some claim that there are benefits to keeping the fines in the substrate (plus, I'm lazy).

Basically, I'd suggest you just go ahead with whatever method appeals to you, and get started. Sure, you'll probably run into some problems, but it's part of the learning process...


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## solchitlins (Sep 11, 2013)

Is this ok red clay?


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## sadchevy (Jun 15, 2013)

I use STS in my 125g and 75g. I put it in dry and slowly filled to just above substrate level then stirred well to expel most of the trapped air, then let it settle and filled about halfway. Did a complete water change, then filled completely. Water was cloudy for about a day then cleared considerably. This was for tanks that use STS exclusively, no dirt. For a cap, just rinse the STS thru a strainer to remove most of the dust and you should be good to go.


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## solchitlins (Sep 11, 2013)

thanks, I suspect that it never becomes clean because it crumbles when stirred in the bucket. I must have used 100 gallons of water on half a bucket full and it's still dirty. lol

I need to make a strainer, the stir in bucket technique isn't working so good.


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## raven_wilde (Jul 12, 2006)

solchitlins said:


> Is this ok red clay?


No, self hardening clay is not what you need. Go to a real pottery supply store, not just a craft store. You want 'Red Art Clay' in powdered form. Call ahead before you go so you don't waste a trip, tell them that you are making 'seed bombs' (its a guerilla gardening thing), they will know what you want.


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## solchitlins (Sep 11, 2013)

Ok, dang.
That's over an hour away. Can I add in after I dirt my tank? I'm not heading that way anytime soon.

All the art guys here use grey clay


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## sadchevy (Jun 15, 2013)

If you have a petsmart nearby they sell API laterite. It's $20 for a 1lb box. Not cheap but may be cheaper when adding the fuel cost of the drive.


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## raven_wilde (Jul 12, 2006)

solchitlins said:


> Ok, dang.
> That's over an hour away. Can I add in after I dirt my tank? I'm not heading that way anytime soon.
> 
> All the art guys here use grey clay


No, you need to add it in when you put the dirt in. You want the red kind because it has iron in it. You can use laterite instead as sadchevy suggests.


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## solchitlins (Sep 11, 2013)

what is laterite? 

http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=11147295&f=PAD/psNotAvailInUS/No

red FloraMax is on sale, is that a equal iron source?
It say's Eliminates the need for laterite.
I was thinking of adding some to my STS just to add weight


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## raven_wilde (Jul 12, 2006)

Laterite:
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4876

But, you know, use whatever you want if it adds up to what you need.


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## solchitlins (Sep 11, 2013)

got to love how petsmart is twice as much as dr foster


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