# What can I drop inside a tank to kill all invertebrates?



## aznrice247 (Feb 1, 2012)

Pennies, I heard some guy lost shrimps when his students dropped pennies in his tank. Hey if you don't want your shrimps i'll take em.


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## hedge_fund (Jan 1, 2006)

aznrice247 said:


> Pennies, I heard some guy lost shrimps when his students dropped pennies in his tank. Hey if you don't want your shrimps i'll take em.


Yeah I thought about dropping a small copper pipe but not sure if that would permanently damage some of my fish. I need a 100% sure way that gets it done within a few minutes or hours.

Unfortunately I've made up my mind to just get rid of the shrimp instead of catching them. Much easier and less time consuming. :bounce:


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## The Dude (Feb 8, 2011)

Are you emptying the tank? I'll gladly take as many shrimp and snails as you will pack up. If you're redoing the tank why not just dump it all out, clean it up and start from scratch?


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## hedge_fund (Jan 1, 2006)

The Dude said:


> Are you emptying the tank? I'll gladly take as many shrimp and snails as you will pack up. If you're redoing the tank why not just dump it all out, clean it up and start from scratch?


Please see my post above (we posted at the same time )

I have some nice moss carpet that is tied down and I do not want to pull it all out and start over. I also have some nice endlers so breaking down the tank definitely is not an option since I do not have anywhere to put them while I cycle all over again.


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

I imagine putting in anything that will instantly kill all inverts wouldn't be too good for your endlers either, especially if you have any babies in there. Aren't there shrimp traps out there that people use?


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## Overgrowth (Feb 19, 2012)

Coppersafe will *probably* work on the shrimp and snails, but not the scuds. Nothing kills scuds, not even death itself. Lol.

I know that No-Planaria will work on some types of snails too.


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## acitydweller (Dec 28, 2011)

Hedge, 
Algaefix kills all inverts while not disturbing the tank cycle. Its also safe for fish.


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## aznrice247 (Feb 1, 2012)

bottle trap those shrimps for me haha.


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## Overgrowth (Feb 19, 2012)

acitydweller said:


> Hedge,
> Algaefix kills all inverts while not disturbing the tank cycle. Its also safe for fish.


Really? ALL INVERTS? I find that pretty hard to believe as I tried at least 10 different chemicals to kill copepods, nematodes, and seed shrimp without any luck. If that's true then I'll be in and out of my PetSmart faster than you can say, "No more nematodes."


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## fplata (May 20, 2012)

H2o2 I'm higher doses will kill everything 


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## fplata (May 20, 2012)

But I vote for algae fix 


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## Yamaz (May 13, 2011)

yes algae fix worked for me


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## ravensgate (May 24, 2012)

hedge_fund said:


> Please see my post above (we posted at the same time )
> 
> I have some nice moss carpet that is tied down and I do not want to pull it all out and start over. I also have some nice endlers so breaking down the tank definitely is not an option since I do not have anywhere to put them while I cycle all over again.



But wouldn't killing all the shrimp and snails cause a colossal ammonia spike where you'd have to pull the endlers out anyway?


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## angelsword (May 16, 2009)

It would make way more sense to trap them. You'll end up with an ammonia spike plus you'll have to find all the dead things in the moss.


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## hedge_fund (Jan 1, 2006)

acitydweller said:


> Hedge,
> Algaefix kills all inverts while not disturbing the tank cycle. Its also safe for fish.


Great, thanks for the suggestion. I hope I can find it at Petco tomorrow.



ravensgate said:


> But wouldn't killing all the shrimp and snails cause a colossal ammonia spike where you'd have to pull the endlers out anyway?


I'll do some water changes and suck the dead ones out with a hose. It's still much easier than trying to catch all the shrimp/scuds. I actually think it's impossible unless I'd rip out all the moss.


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## hedge_fund (Jan 1, 2006)

angelsword said:


> It would make way more sense to trap them. You'll end up with an ammonia spike plus you'll have to find all the dead things in the moss.


Not sure if you've ever had scuds but they are impossible to get rid of....I'm sure others can chime in. 

The only way to get them out is to tear down the tank or nuke it with something that kills them.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

Plug in your toaster, start it up and toss it in.

_Sorry, couldn't resist_


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## Beer (Feb 1, 2012)

I'd try to trap as many of the snails and shrimp as possible before killing them off. The ammonia spike from them decaying, if there are as many as you are saying, would cause issues for the Endlers.
The Endlers should take care of the scuds and baby shrimp.
I could swing by on my way from Philly later in the week and net/trap most of the shrimp and haul them away for you ;D
I used a few pennies in a 2 gallon bucket to rid plants of the snails I couldn't find before transferring them to my tank. Wasn't a couple hour deal, but it worked. I don't see the pipe being an issue. Soak it in hot vinegar to clean it, then give it a cold water rinse and you should be fine.

But if you plan mass genocide, I would seriously consider placing the Endlers in another container and doing water changes daily or every other day. If you have filter media in the container (even with no circulation), every other day should be okay. Just keep it bare bottom and vac the bottom to minimize ammonia spikes. Small cheap plastic containers, paint mixing containers ($1-$2), will work temporarily. I would vacuum the tank as well as you can every couple of days to remove as many bodies and decaying matter as you can until everything stabilizes before putting the Endlers back in.

I will come over with a bucket and remove as many shrimp and snails as possible. I'm heading to Philly tomorrow and coming back sometime next week, my schedule is a little flexible.


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## plamski (Sep 25, 2009)

H2o2 3-4 ml/gal will "fix" everything + bacteria.


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

Nothing reliably kills inverts while leaving plants and fish untouched. This is especially true when that's what you want to happen.


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## Dany08fa (Jul 3, 2012)

Trap as much as you can then algae fix seems to be the solution. You said you had all day.... Lol


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## Rob in Puyallup (Jul 2, 2009)

ravensgate said:


> But wouldn't killing all the shrimp and snails cause a colossal ammonia spike where you'd have to pull the endlers out anyway?


Exactly what I was thinking, Jaime. Doesn't seem like a good idea to me. 

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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

ive seen "had a snail" and its a copper med but when i tried it it only killed ramshorns and not the "pond" snails. what about a loach to eat the snails/shrimp


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## R.sok (Sep 24, 2012)

Take out the fish & use a stun gun


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## angelsword (May 16, 2009)

hedge_fund said:


> Not sure if you've ever had scuds but they are impossible to get rid of....I'm sure others can chime in.
> 
> The only way to get them out is to tear down the tank or nuke it with something that kills them.


True, I've seen pictures and they look horrifying. I might throw out the whole tank lol


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## steven p (Jun 22, 2012)

R.sok said:


> Take out the fish & use a stun gun


Remove your filters/heaters first.. but this might be the smartest idea.. I've tazed myself.. not that bad.. prolly won't kill much... If you're grounded and feeling frisky, plug some severed wires into a grounded circuit breaker and put the + and - in either end of the tank. It should bubble and realease hydrogen and oxygen gas on either lead if I remember 7th grade science class correctly.

Don't tell game and parks.. electro-fishing is illegal.


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## tunatime (Aug 1, 2012)

Just put fish that eat shimp it will be fun to watch and the shimp will keep the fish will feed


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## acitydweller (Dec 28, 2011)

Lol, it doesn't seem like anyone besides hedge and i have dealt with scuds before. These guys are like to cockroaches of the shrimp world. Netted and even scooped up all the gravel in a tank and still have nearly a hundred in the bare bottom tank two weeks later. I refused to do a tank teardown due to a CBS so near to term.

You all my be after the shrimp in the tank but you are playing with fire trying to net them in a scud infested tank. Adult scuds will outrun most fish so don't think that is a viable fall back plan. The only way fish could be effective is you place a betta, (plakats make proficient hunters due to their short fins) in a 2.5 gallon tank. Anything larger would give the fish a run for their money and give up. Various small cichlids may work but again the adults burrow quicker than anything so a sandy substrate would be an alternative. Just fair warning as so many people are so quick to jump on the idea of netting. Just the accidental two or three that hitchhike into you tank will provide over a hundred scuds in a few short weeks.


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## hedge_fund (Jan 1, 2006)

acitydweller said:


> Lol, it doesn't seem like anyone besides hedge and i have dealt with scuds before. These guys are like to cockroaches of the shrimp world. Netted and even scooped up all the gravel in a tank and still have nearly a hundred in the bare bottom tank two weeks later. I refused to do a tank teardown due to a CBS so near to term.
> 
> You all my be after the shrimp in the tank but you are playing with fire trying to net them in a scud infested tank. Adult scuds will outrun most fish so don't think that is a viable fall back plan. The only way fish could be effective is you place a betta, (plakats make proficient hunters due to their short fins) in a 2.5 gallon tank. Anything larger would give the fish a run for their money and give up. Various small cichlids may work but again the adults burrow quicker than anything so a sandy substrate would be an alternative. Just fair warning as so many people are so quick to jump on the idea of netting. Just the accidental two or three that hitchhike into you tank will provide over a hundred scuds in a few short weeks.


Good post. 

To add:
Scuds will also eat certain types of mosses to the point that only little fiber twigs are left. They don't touch my fissidens nor Christmas moss but they will devour my Singapore moss. 

Heck, even if I tore down this tank completely, I would probably have to buy everything brand new including gravel. Scuds are impossible to eliminate when shrimp/plants are present. The only way to get them out is to nuke the tank with something that kills inverts. I once had 10 adult swordtails in a 15 gallon tank with just ecocomplete and floating plants. Not other objects nor plants were on the bottom...just the ecocomplete. Guess what? I had to tear this tank down since the swordtails couldn't solve the scud problem. If a fish was chasing a scud, it would just bury itself in the substrate. I tore the tank down and threw out the gravel with the fish tank. 

I am inclined to believe that scuds would survive a real nuclear blast. There would at least be a few survivors for sure.


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

pardon my stupidity but can some one post a pic i did google but they look pretty big so i think they might be something other than what google is bringing up


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## Jeffww (Aug 6, 2010)

Something that eats shrimp...


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

No one mentioned this yet... CO2. I use this method to kill all the scuds.

Overdose your tank with co2 gas for 24 hour. Filter, heater and lights off. Lay a layer or two Saran Wrap on top of the water surface (maximizing co2 concentration in the water). Basically it.

This worked for me so far when I'm trying to transfer all my plants from an infested tank. This is also what I do to quarantine new plants from anywhere I bought. The best thing about this method is chemical free so plants won't be affected.


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## auban (Jun 23, 2012)

sayurasem said:


> No one mentioned this yet... CO2. I use this method to kill all the scuds.
> 
> Overdose your tank with co2 gas for 24 hour. Filter, heater and lights off. Lay a layer or two Saran Wrap on top of the water surface (maximizing co2 concentration in the water). Basically it.
> 
> This worked for me so far when I'm trying to transfer all my plants from an infested tank. This is also what I do to quarantine new plants from anywhere I bought. The best thing about this method is chemical free so plants won't be affected.


+1

i have done the exact same thing with a couple bottles of club soda. eliminated all of my scuds.

i used to culture them as live food, but got tired of their wily ways...

it also works great for snails.


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## pinoyghost2 (Feb 13, 2012)

I can lend you Bonnie and Clyde :thumbsup: this is my Golden Wonder Killifish pair. I wanted to clean out a couple of my shrimp tanks from being overrun with scuds/water fleas/planaria whatever.....took out the shrimp that I could see, and dropped Bonnie/Clyde in for what I thought would be a day or two.

Next am they were both at the front of the glass wanting snacks  seems they ATE everything alive in the tank...and I mean everything, not a snail, planaria, aquatic creature of any kind lived after 24 hours, why I nicknamed them B/C.

I have since used them on more tanks to do the same and its amazing.

Sorry Im not close enough, but maybe someone else has a couple Killifish you could borrow for a day or so.


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## hedge_fund (Jan 1, 2006)

Thanks all. Bonnie and Clyde sound like a perfect too but they'll probably eat some of my endler babies too. haha.

I'll be heading out to Petco some time today and if I cannot find AlgaeFix then I will go the Co2 route with cyran wrap on top of the tank.....I have a decent amount of floaters and I'm afraid that one of these savages would just sit on top anchored to a floater getting free oxygen.


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## hedge_fund (Jan 1, 2006)

wicca27 said:


> pardon my stupidity but can some one post a pic i did google but they look pretty big so i think they might be something other than what google is bringing up


here is a great thread on it with pics....scroll down

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=184580


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## CharleeFoxtrot (Jan 29, 2004)

Nuke 'em from orbit-it's the only way to be sure 

Seriously, if you do decide to use any copper-based medication you have to be very careful if you ever want to reuse the tank for inverts in the future.


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## hedge_fund (Jan 1, 2006)

Boom. Can't wait to add it. 











Oh, and I almost purchased this beta. Much better in person.


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

I was about I write a semi scathing response about killing off shrimp needlessly, but I read the reasonable explanation about the cockroaches. 

Kinda sad, but it almost seems necessary. 

Disappointing, as I wanted scuds for my tank. I don't think I want them now. 


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## hedge_fund (Jan 1, 2006)

MABJ said:


> Disappointing, as I wanted scuds for my tank. I don't think I want them now.
> 
> 
> MABJ's iDevice used for this message


Do not under any circumstances add scuds to your shrimp or moss tank. You will definitely regret it down the road when they take over your tank and you have more scuds than shrimp. They are pretty ugly too.


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

Yeah it is the general feeling about them around here, so I'll take the advice. I like most inverts. Only inverts I've disliked so far was anything worm like. Planaria for example. 




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## jone (Nov 27, 2011)

I hate scuds..I have not been able to find any pictures for comparison between seed shrimp and scuds..I have something in my tank but cannot diferentiate between the two...


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

jone said:


> I hate scuds..I have not been able to find any pictures for comparison between seed shrimp and scuds..I have something in my tank but cannot diferentiate between the two...


Seed shrimp are like little dots, can barely see them. Scuds look like potato bugs.


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## hedge_fund (Jan 1, 2006)

I can confirm that AlgaeFix will kill inverts. I scooped out a few scuds and shrimp. Put them in a cup and poured two drops of this stuff....everything is dead 1 hour later. Obviously I did a lower concentration for the tank so it might take a few days before things start dying off.


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## ThatGuyWithTheFish (Apr 29, 2012)

After reading this thread, I feel very thankful that I only have one single scud.


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## hedge_fund (Jan 1, 2006)

ThatGuyWithTheFish said:


> After reading this thread, I feel very thankful that I only have one single scud.


Kill it ASAP just to be sure. :icon_wink


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## acitydweller (Dec 28, 2011)

The nightmare begins with one...... Haste makes waste


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## jone (Nov 27, 2011)

what size difference is between them??? actually how big is a scud in general??? sorry for all the questions but there is no pictures or size reference that I can find..also ,can you easily see scuds antenea and legs with normal eyesight....seed shrimp are far too small to see any of their parts..


GeToChKn said:


> Seed shrimp are like little dots, can barely see them. Scuds look like potato bugs.


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## fplata (May 20, 2012)

Hey man, keep an eye on your filter too much algafix will kill your bio filter as well


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## zzrguy (Jul 11, 2012)

You are going to need active carbon to get rid of the algae fix when you are happy happy happy that al the vermin are gone. You might need to run two or more loads of carbon.


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## tunatime (Aug 1, 2012)

post pics of the mass kill of. it sucks you have to kill every thing but it would be cool to see


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

yeah...actually...I don't need to see that. :icon_roll


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> yeah...actually...I don't need to see that. :icon_roll


Had no clue how to respond to that message, so I'm glad you did. That's disturbed..


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## Kitsune_Gem (Apr 10, 2012)

When I had an infestation of the blasted scruds, I threw my betta in there for 3 months, lost a few baby shrimp, but the adults are okay and my betta devastated my scruds. Haven't seen one since the betta was removed : )


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## acitydweller (Dec 28, 2011)

no massacre photos please. i'm sort of adverse to any "scudicide" photos


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

hedge_fund said:


> I can confirm that AlgaeFix will kill inverts. I scooped out a few scuds and shrimp. Put them in a cup and poured two drops of this stuff....everything is dead 1 hour later. Obviously I did a lower concentration for the tank so it might take a few days before things start dying off.


Do not stop treating the tank, I treated the 2-3 day to see, it keeps on killing.

Plants are not effected nor fish.

I got about 20% kill, then around 50-70% with RCS. Amano's are tougher, but crawl out.

I never did get 100% kill. 

Which is sort of what you need.

Might try a few more days of dosing. But that's a Grey area as far as plants and fish, they seem fine with 3 continuous days.

Snails? They are immortal. Unless you start killing fish and plants.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

zzrguy said:


> You are going to need active carbon to get rid of the algae fix when you are happy happy happy that al the vermin are gone. You might need to run two or more loads of carbon.


No, you do not, it binds rapidly to soil/organic matter, thus is already rendered non toxic rapidly, then bacteria break it down.

If the pesticide is bound to organic matter, it cannot target the shrimp, algae etc.

You can do a large water change after, this is par for the treatments for algae, any large change etc. Unlike say Copper, it cannot re release back into the tank later on, since the active ingredient is now broken down. Cooper would require a nuke reactor to "decompose" into something non toxic, this needs bound or removed. Algaefix does not. Chemical pesticides that persist in the water are bad, like atrazine. You want things that bind or break down into non toxic by products relatively fast.


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## hedge_fund (Jan 1, 2006)

Thanks Tom. I was actually wondering how long I should be dosing this stuff. Glad you were able to clarify all my question marks.


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## GDP (Mar 12, 2011)

I hate scuds. Got them in my 20g ... I let all the CRS and everything in that tank die. Then I threw out the whole tank. Such a shame too because they were really high grade CRS and had a lot of nice plants in that tank.


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

0.0 I'd have found a way to make it work. High grade CRS are neat lol


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## GDP (Mar 12, 2011)

Yeah they were all SSS. But once I seen those damn things scurrying around I refused to ever put my hand back in there. I would have nuked it from orbit just to be sure.


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

hedge_fund said:


> I can confirm that AlgaeFix will kill inverts. I scooped out a few scuds and shrimp. Put them in a cup and poured two drops of this stuff....everything is dead 1 hour later. Obviously I did a lower concentration for the tank so it might take a few days before things start dying off.


Scuds can hide inside the substrate for a long time. And I hate chemical :x


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