# The Fisherman's 20 Long Journal - The Workbench



## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

I'm just learning how to grow plants and keep my fish happy. I guess I have a Noah's Ark approach to planted tanks... collect 2-3 of each and shove em into the tank and hope they grow lol. 

*20G LONG - WORKBENCH (11-19-11) *

Specifics:
Tank: Deep Blue 20g Long - 30"X12"X12"
Substrate: 40lbs Eco-complete black
Equipment: Ehiem 2217 
Heater: Hydor ETH 200
Lighting: Deep Blue 230 2X T5HO, 24W 6500k (Azoo lamps)
CO2: Matheson Dual Stage inline GLA diffuser
Ferts: modified EI
Photoperiod: 10hrs

Flora:
Crypt. Walkeri Petchii 
Crypt. Beckettii 
Crypt. Wendtii Green
Crypt. Wendtii Red
Crypt. Wendtii De Witt 
Crypt. Wendtii Tropica 
Crypt Wedntii Mioya 
Crypt. Blassii 
Crypt. Undulata 
Crypt. Pontderiifolia 
Crypt. Parva
Crypt. Albida 
Crypt. Ferruginea "Sg. Sempit"
Dwarf Lily
Egleria fluctuans
Sunset Hygro
Limnophila Repens mini
Staurogyne Repens

Fauna:
14 Cardinal Tetra
2 Black Tetra
1 Khuli Loach
2 Cory
3 Otocinclus
2 EBR's


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

*Progress 11-22-11*

Newly setup. Harvested a bunch of cuttings from my nano. I thought it was a lot but as you can see... I had a lot of room to work with!


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

*Progress 11-28-11*

Yep... I couldn't stand the look of an empty tank! I met with Partobe in the city, went to Winn and Pacific and grabbed a bunch of stuff. I felt like Bob Ross just shoving pants in the dirt... it felt soo good, happy accidents! My nephew seems to like my handy work


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

*Progress 12-08-11*

So I just hooked up my 2217 a few days prior and was in total awe of its beastly ways... and thus my eyes were opened to the world of over filtration, ahhhhh so refreshing 

What do you do when you've got a filter that seems to have as much water in it as your tank you say? Of course you go to the LFS to buy fish! 

6 neon rainbows and 3 GBR's later.. Nitrite spike  I had levels .25-.50 ppm it was nutz.

Since I experienced crazy stuff while my nano was cycling, i kind knew what I had to do:

- initial waterchange to protect fish (dilute levels)
- raised spraybar to super oxygenate water at night (foster bacteria growth)
- bought an entire tank of hornwort from the LFS (absorb nasties)
- open the flood gates on the 2217!

Result: levels yo-yo'd for a couple days, by the 3rd day it was regular scheduled waterchange, rinse and repat. One bacteria bloom later (cloudy water) levels stabilized. [I had to do this twice to my tank btw... tank fully cycled by the 6th week]


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

*Progress 12-20-11*

Fast forward to right before xmas.. performing weekly prune/trims... repositioned my walichi added some DW, finally my plants are all starting to wake up!


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

*Progress 12-30-11*

I received a wonderful package yesterday of assorted crypts from a very generous man I shall not name [cough gordon richards cough thank you!] lol 

I was going to do a little photo narration like other journals starting with a pic of the bag, then the plant on the table, prepping the plant, planting the plant...sorry 

I think I managed to take two pics before I ripped all the plants out of the bags, crypts were everywhere! on my desk, on my keyboard, my phone in my nano, my bed, the floor, my mouse, and c. pygmea! my God that's a small crypt! 

Pure bliss I tell you.. I literally was tossing plants into my tanks to inspect, clean and prune them...QUARANTINE you say? I say SHAWREMTINE ... yeah my tanks have snails; that I feed to assassins!

ICH? bah SHMICH! I've had the sickest ICH outbreak in my nano that made me afraid to put my hand in the water...cured it. Any fish in there are immune at this point, my cories eat theronts for breakfast, besides my tanks are a balmy 80-82 degrees.

Ya so I basically lost track of what I was planting and will probably post ID threads in a few weeks lol. I got bag of 300 DIY osmocote capsules that I probably plugged 150 in every square inch of my substrate...after several hours and a waterchange and fert dose my tank is on its way to becoming a crypt tank!

In all honesty, I felt like today was a turning point for me and my tank. I feel like I am only now beginning to understand plants and what they need from me and what I need from them. I hope you enjoy my pics!


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## partobe (Jul 29, 2011)

OMG!! I Love your Tank. When we go on our plant shopping this week you have to give me some pointers.


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## ChadRamsey (Nov 3, 2011)

very nice low tech!


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

partobe said:


> OMG!! I Love your Tank. When we go on our plant shopping this week you have to give me some pointers.


thank you partobe! you remember the half dead stargrass and hygros we got from winn? i'll have plenty cuttifs for you if you like 

pointers?! idk if I can give you any except, if its green leafy and rooty...shove it in the dirt! 

ps. here's a shot of a beautiul specimen I got from Gordon Richards 


Sent from my iPhone


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

ChadRamsey said:


> very nice low tech!


thanks chad! it took me a while to figure out the proper excel dosing... CO2, pH/KH was tricky to stabilize.

but right now i'm at:

pH 6.4
KH 2
CO2 14-20 ppm

now dosing 15ml every other day... melted a few plants and almost near suffocated my fish in the process of finding that number :O


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## partobe (Jul 29, 2011)

nice plants so when are you going to start the 75?


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

*Progress Update 01-01-12*

Happy New Year everyone!

So I received a surprise (since I didn't expect any deliveries till 2012) package of stuff yesterday... It was my Hydor ETH and scaping tools. Very impressed with Bigal's. 

Of course I couldn't wait to install my new heater! I didn't realize how huge the external heater was and had issues with the length of my tubing and the position of my outflow spraybar. I had some new tubing and an unused ehiem outflow pipe, so I relocated my outflow to the other side of the tank. Giving me enough length to play with. I still plan to install my GLA inline diffuser once my regulator comes in.

Here's some pics of my upgrades


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

partobe said:


> nice plants so when are you going to start the 75?


thanks pat.. well as you know the 75 will be on hold for now. I need to focus on getting my 30B's setup first. Also I think the 75 was intended to be a showtank in our living room. I think I am interested in doing something bigger (150g+) low tech, with a lot of large crypts and slow growers.


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## partobe (Jul 29, 2011)

Happy New Year Ryan!!! I love the new goodies you got. Do you remember how much that upright fluval with stand was at pacific?


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

partobe said:


> Happy New Year Ryan!!! I love the new goodies you got. Do you remember how much that upright fluval with stand was at pacific?


the "osaka" you mean? idk it looked pricey. last time i was there i didn't see it, i think it was sold.


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## partobe (Jul 29, 2011)

oh ok I love all the new stuff you got and your tank. You really have a eye for placing plants in your tanks.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

The tank is coming along great and I love the progress.  It looks great now but I have a feeling it has a way to go, I think you will make it even better. It is super lush and your plants look really healthy. I want to see where this goes.


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## ptr (Sep 23, 2011)

Beautiful. It's just amazing none of your crypts melted. Most do in my tank. Eventually they grow back, but they look quite ugly for a while.


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## LetThereBeFish (Dec 7, 2011)

Holy cheese you have a nice tank! You got more growth in one month than I get in a whole year :hihi:. I don't know if you already showed this, but whats your fish list? I see neons and dwarf rainbows. Anything else?


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## demonr6 (Mar 14, 2011)

Beautiful tank, looks like you have it well under control. 



ptr said:


> Beautiful. It's just amazing none of your crypts melted. Most do in my tank. Eventually they grow back, but they look quite ugly for a while.


They do not always necessarily melt. I bought a number of crypt that were grown emmersed and I planted them, let them simmer in the new tank for a week before flooding it and I had maybe two stems melt and that was it. Not bad when you have 20 plants and only two leaves die off.


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

talontsiawd said:


> The tank is coming along great and I love the progress. It looks great now but I have a feeling it has a way to go, I think you will make it even better. It is super lush and your plants look really healthy. I want to see where this goes.


thanks bro.. but ya i agree it totally has a long way to go. i just have to stick to the vision. that parva carpet was a pain in the @$$ plant lol... but i hope i can get it thick like plantbrain's. also i just planted a few more kool stems from a friend's tank takedown last night. i'll get pics up shortly 



ptr said:


> Beautiful. It's just amazing none of your crypts melted. Most do in my tank. Eventually they grow back, but they look quite ugly for a while.





demonr6 said:


> Beautiful tank, looks like you have it well under control.
> 
> They do not always necessarily melt. I bought a number of crypt that were grown emmersed and I planted them, let them simmer in the new tank for a week before flooding it and I had maybe two stems melt and that was it. Not bad when you have 20 plants and only two leaves die off.


thanks guys... don't be fooled i definitely have some melts, just not apparent in the pic. i also have unsightly diatoms all over my groundcover parvas... i guess new tank syndrome.

a knowledgeable friend told me the crypt basically "resets" itself when newly planted or moved. this happened to my red wendtii, one of the first crypts i planted...at first i was alarmed but i noticed new growth already at the crown... so i help it a bit by plucking and trimming away leaves that _begin_ to show any sign of melting, all the way down to the base of the plant... and man my crypts love it!

i'll post pics of my wendtii also. oh and gordon richard's told me one thing, he said: "remember fisherman.. fertz are a crypt's best friend" lol


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

LetThereBeFish said:


> Holy cheese you have a nice tank! You got more growth in one month than I get in a whole year :hihi:.


thanks LTBF! right now i'm only dosing excel... i am totally psyched to see what kind of growth i will get when i start juicing CO2! maknwar's building one for me, just waiting on some parts. maybe this weekend! 



LetThereBeFish said:


> I don't know if you already showed this, but whats your fish list? I see neons and dwarf rainbows. Anything else?


 here's my fish list:

Fauna:
10 Cardinal Tetra
10 Chili Rasbora
10 CRS
8 Batik Nerite 
6 Pygmy Cory
6 Dwarf Rainbowfish
6 Furcatas Rainbowfish
3 German Blue Ram (1 dead during spawning battle, I am very very sad  )
3 Otocinclus


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

*Progress 01-03-12, The New Year*

Happy New Year! I just planted some awesome stems from a friend's SUPER awesome 75g tank takedown. I came away with an incredible total plant package that all I can say is, thank you. 

Here are some community shots of my fish and new plant additions the plants aren't in their final position yet...I felt I just had to plug these guys into this tank cuz they seem to be the most fragile and demanding plants I received from the takedown. the other plants are in my 30 breeder dirt tank.

i will give them a week or two before I trim and re-position. FTS this weekend after I hack my weeds down!


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

just an update pic... can't wait to trim this weekend. maybe ROAK some stems soon 


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Looks fantastic.


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

Progress 01-08-12

just a couple pics pre maintenance. i always hesistate before i hack away mu rotalas, i know my chilis and tetras love to hide in them. good thing its a weed! 




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## zachary908 (Feb 12, 2011)

Nice looking tank you have there, Fisherman!


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

oh and my drawf lilies aren't so dwarf after all! thrse guys were bald bulbs when i got them and now they're pretty aggressive growers in the tank.

how would i thin these guys out? just trim the big leaves away close to the bulb? i know tiger lilies can be tempermental when u mess with them, i don't want to piss these giys off and it decides to melt!


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

zachary908 said:


> Nice looking tank you have there, Fisherman!


coming from you zach i am humbled, thank you kindly! 


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## zachary908 (Feb 12, 2011)

Just trim of the leaves that are large and shooting high. That will encourage it to grow lower and more compact. I've always been pretty aggressive with trimming my lilies and never had any issues.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

zachary908 said:


> Just trim of the leaves that are large and shooting high. That will encourage it to grow lower and more compact. I've always been pretty aggressive with trimming my lilies and never had any issues.


Yup. Just cut it shorter. It will stay compact if you consistantly trim. It will only try to grow high again after it has made a bunch of new shoots and hasn't been trimmed.


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

talontsiawd said:


> Yup. Just cut it shorter. It will stay compact if you consistantly trim. It will only try to grow high again after it has made a bunch of new shoots and hasn't been trimmed.


thanks guys... well i kept one guy a little tall. my pygmy cories love to use the leaves as a landing pad, i didn't want to take it away from them lol

i chopped the other guy down tho.


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

a couple hours and a power nap later....here's my hacked down tank!

FTS warning! i was brave and hacked away... not too brave tho i left some guys alone lol.

changes notes are:
- moved my hygro pinnatifidia (a more sturdy branch like plant) to shield my lanky sunset/green hygros from the clockwise current in my tank.
- replanted/positioned my p. stellata so its not shaded behin my rotalas
- literally beheaded my rotala walichi and repositioned to background
- same for my macrandra/indica bunch. divided them into basically two planted bunch tops behind DW
- replanted r. nanjenshan front and center behind stargrass
- accidentally lopped my synoganthus belem top off as i was pruning, replanted stubby top :O 
- had to mechanically remove diatoms, i know they should be gone in time, but it was gettin pretty thick down there. i sensed my c. parva suffocating
- combed thru my flame moss
- hacked some p wort down
- of course the lilies and helped the crypts removed some melted stems
- dosed GH booster/Macros/Excel

I know my l. aromatica is happy, and of course the crazies (fishies) 

a heck of a lot of work for a little tank... my back!



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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

FTS shot


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

Good morning FTS 




















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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

Progress 01-11-12

the diatoms are relentless... i know they don't like light, I have both T5HO's blasting for 12hrs to the point i am seeing signs of BBA (on my c parva).

the diatoma continue to grow thick primarily on my slow growing parva. I'm over dosing excel already and my water is already very soft. the other plants (except for my temple hygro) are thriving. should I just hold tight and wait it out? please advise. 










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## LetThereBeFish (Dec 7, 2011)

Very nice/amazing/im very jealous stems. Maybe popping a root tab under the hygro temple will help it. It sure helped my hygro compact. Also, well for my hygro, they seem to like their space. So maybe its a little choked out.


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## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

Not really sure why you just NOW be seeing brown algae this late into the set up. Ottos love to eat diatoms, but other than being a little annoying to look at, brown algae doesn't do much in the way of harming plants. Usually, it just goes away as the tank finishes cycling. That's usually when you start seeing other algae problems take over (thread and dust algae).

That's a really, really colorful 20gallon you got there Fisherman. Well done!! Just stay patient with it!


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

thank you crazy, thank you LTBF  of course this means a lot coming from people who's tanks you are already a fan of 


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

Progress 01-13-12

well i had a beer last night and decided to suspend my light finally. 

as of now i have it suspended 4" above the top; what a difference it makes. i believe the tank looks more natural this way. what do you guys think? 











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## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

double thumbs up, my friend! It doesn't look like you lose too much light due to the increased distance. Nice job!


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

crazydaz said:


> double thumbs up, my friend! It doesn't look like you lose too much light due to the increased distance. Nice job!


thanks crazy, definately a better distribution of light. i used to have hotspots and dark spots in my tank when the fixture was plumb ontop of the tank. my c.parva suffered the most cuz i could see the beginnigs of BBA on their leaves! 

the only thing i noticed that irked me a little was the shadow my rim cast, but i decided i could live with it lol. but the diatoms... ughhh!


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

just a progress FTS after yesterday's maintenance 


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

That is looking good my friend. What is the orange plant infront of the indica? Looks really cool. Can't wait to see the back fill out.


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

thanx bro... i think its rotala nanjenshan, in a couple of weeks i should have a couple cuttings i can send your way  

i love the blyxa japonica you sent me, idk if you can see it in the pic, but i found a perfect spot for them  

ya i had to hack the limnophila in the back and remived my waluchi. cuz the base stems were bunched and weren't getting enough light. 





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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

thefisherman said:


> thanx bro... i think its rotala nanjenshan, in a couple of weeks i should have a couple cuttings i can send your way
> 
> i love the blyxa japonica you sent me, idk if you can see it in the pic, but i found a perfect spot for them
> 
> ...


The Blyxa looks great, I am glad it made the trip. I would love some trimmings. I am growing out some super secret rotala for you btw. I think it is just some regular stuff but AFA in SF made it seem special and charged me $$$ for it. It has a blood red under any light. It looks like ludwigia glandulosa with smaller leaves. Basically ludwigia repens size leaves but that color, even in low light. I need to grow some more out before I do so. My favorite red plant so far.


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

talontsiawd said:


> The Blyxa looks great, I am glad it made the trip. I would love some trimmings. I am growing out some super secret rotala for you btw. I think it is just some regular stuff but AFA in SF made it seem special and charged me $$$ for it. It has a blood red under any light. It looks like ludwigia glandulosa with smaller leaves. Basically ludwigia repens size leaves but that color, even in low light. I need to grow some more out before I do so. My favorite red plant so far.


those nanjenshan tops are urs man, probabbly trimming in a week or so i want to grow them to the top of the waterline so they look they're best post trim 

i love super secret plants! lol i just purchased two rare stems from the APC forum. hope to plant then on thursday. maybe by the time we trade i'll have little clippings of these stems for you as well 

a couple close ups of the recent plant groupings i made in the tank 


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

Progress 01-19-12

These stems just brought SEXY back into my planted tank! 

Egleria fluctuans








Eriocaulon setaceum









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## limeslide (Jan 27, 2010)

interesting leaf structure, beautiful.


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

limeslide said:


> interesting leaf structure, beautiful.


thanks lime, hopefully these guys will settle in my tank and grow like weeds! (even though technically i guess they are weeds lol) 


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

Progress 01-22-12, weekly maintenance

a gew pics pre-trim/maintenance

FTS








As much as my fish love playing in the rotala forest...









and temptation to let them get wild and see if the fish decide to spawn in there... i know my other super needy stems do not appreciate getting shaded and if left unchecked my rotalas will get super entangled and difficult to maintain uniformity in the long haul. problem is they LOVE getting hacked lol. 

I am considering subtracting 10-15 main stems to thin the herd and give breathing room for the others.

don't worry Talon, i'm still propogating the r. nanjenshans. when they double i'll be sending their tops to you soon! (about 10 more days)

a view of the rotala tops, they're longer than they appear, most have reached the waterline and starting to shade the other plants... greedy weeds! lol









i'm considering relocating the bunch to the back corner. not sure it will happen today though.

also do you guys notice how thick my diatoms are? its the only form of algae in the tank (aside from a little GSA on the glass) they just won't go away! any advice? 



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## LetThereBeFish (Dec 7, 2011)

thefisherman said:


> also do you guys notice how thick my diatoms are? its the only form of algae in the tank (aside from a little GSA on the glass) they just won't go away! any advice?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone


Thats diatoms!?! Are you sure? When I first looked it, I swore it was staghorn... You are talking about the stuff on the bottom?


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

LetThereBeFish said:


> Thats diatoms!?! Are you sure? When I first looked it, I swore it was staghorn... You are talking about the stuff on the bottom?


That looks like staghorn to me as well. I can only see the pictures though, I can't say what it is.





thefisherman said:


> don't worry Talon, i'm still propogating the r. nanjenshans. when they double i'll be sending their tops to you soon! (about 10 more days)


Haha, I actual saw my email notification thinking....F**K, I hope he isn't sending me anything because I don't know where to put it yet lol. Take your time my dude. I have a good idea of what I want to do but the time is actually a good thing. Plus, the stems I want to hit you with will need more time than I thought to grow out.




That said...Your arrangement and colors look nice. I hope you aren't dealing with as bad of algae as it looks to me. I probably would turn your lights down if you can run one bulb at a time (sorry didn't read and don't want to mess my post up by going back lol). You may want to add the normal amount of excel to your next week and see what happens. It seems weird but I often find that excel works as good, if not way better when dealing with algae in a pressurized tank. Your ram looks amazing too, btw.


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

staghorn yikes! shows howuch i know... so turn down my lights? excel? i'll give it a shot. thank you 


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## LetThereBeFish (Dec 7, 2011)

Staghorns gains its unsightly powers of wreaking a tank from nutrient imbalance and low CO2 in the tank. You can help remove it by hand(big pain), water changes, increase CO2, bleach treatment, or balance the nutrients.


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

LetThereBeFish said:


> Staghorns gains its unsightly powers of wreaking a tank from nutrient imbalance and low CO2 in the tank. You can help remove it by hand(big pain), water changes, increase CO2, bleach treatment, or balance the nutrients.


i'm crying inside  the imbalance would be low co2... my plants are sucking all of it out of the water including any bicarbonates i have in the water column resulting in ultra soft water (pH6.0 KH <1) no matter how much i dose excel (20-25ml a day!)

it all makes sense to me now. I believe injecting co2 is the answer. i need it to keep up with my dosing/light regime.

for now i'll take talon's advice and kill one bulb and hope my excel can keep up. maknwar made me a blinged out dual stage reg that i am expecting end of the month.

thank you soo much for ID'ng me algae!

Progress pic post trim

















i think i'm a sun worshiper in a past life or something lol


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

aweeby said:


> That's not staghorn. It's loosely called brown hair algae, but that doesn't really matter. What does matter is that it's not too hard to get rid of. You don't need to treat it with anything intense. Just don't feed your rams for a while and they'll clean it up. I had a few plants I left out in the sun that were covered in this stuff- i just threw it into a tank of underfed angels and it was gone the next day. If you don't want to do that, you can just get a toothbrush and twirl it around to romove most of it. It's usually caused by the same things that cause diatoms.


thank you geezuz! i can deal with brown hair algae (for now) lol. still i accept there is an imbalance as with most algae issues. 

again i am confident that i can eradicate this algae once i start gasing 

progress fts 01-24-12




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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

Progress 01-26-12

fts shot, one bulb on. still looks kind of bright. keeping an eye on the brown hair algae return :O









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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Looks sweet man. I don't know why but I just noticed that your tank has black silicone. What brand is that? I like black silicone better than clear on regular, rimmed tanks, as they usually do a better job. On one of my 20 longs, I have more than 1/2 in past the joint.


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

talontsiawd said:


> Looks sweet man. I don't know why but I just noticed that your tank has black silicone. What brand is that? I like black silicone better than clear on regular, rimmed tanks, as they usually do a better job. On one of my 20 longs, I have more than 1/2 in past the joint.


thanks bro...my 20L is made by Deep Blue Professional. I like their tanks because it seems they use thicker glass and a but more heavier duty than other standard tanks i've looked at. 


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

I love 20 long tanks. Great dimensions. Your tank is looking good man. Keep it up.:icon_smil


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

cableguy69846 said:


> I love 20 long tanks. Great dimensions. Your tank is looking good man. Keep it up.:icon_smil


thanks cable  

well all this time, i've been focusing on the fast growing sexy stems in my tank... one wouldn't realize right away from the tank shots how many different crypts i have planted in this tank!

they are also my favorites... here are a few pics 



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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

thefisherman said:


> thanks cable
> 
> well all this time, i've been focusing on the fast growing sexy stems in my tank... one wouldn't realize right away from the tank shots how many different crypts i have planted in this tank!
> 
> ...


No problem. The tank looks good. I am loving crypts now too. Great plants and a little on the easy side.:icon_smil


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

this cracked me up... about to do
maintenance....how do you expect me to hack up their chillin pad?! :O


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

thefisherman said:


> this cracked me up... about to do
> maintenance....how do you expect me to hack up their chillin pad?! :O
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone


That is an fantastic picture man.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Beautiful tank, heavily stocked too! Love the pygmy cories, I have 6 otos already and wasn't sure I could add a couple more.

Most of the clippings you sent me are in my 20L, some were getting uprooted by the MTS first few days, but none have died  all are showing new growth.


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

thanks talon, xenxes  i'm happy to hear the plants are settling in your tank... i've been following your nano thread; would love to see your 20L progress as well.

here's a progress FTS post waterchange







to my surprise and happiness my type 2 started splitting! 







but this morning remains bittersweet as one of my male rainbows, the king of my tank, managed to jump out and perished. it is a sad day for me, i am truly distraught 



Sent from my iPhone


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

gordon i love your plants thank you!








msjinkzd... i don't have a pic yet but i love the shrimp u sent...

you guys are the best!


Sent from my iPhone


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

thefisherman said:


> thanks talon, xenxes  i'm happy to hear the plants are settling in your tank... i've been following your nano thread; would love to see your 20L progress as well.


Had a disaster in the 20g with the soil I used. Apparently it has more manure composition than MGOPS, and other additives (I used the mositure control one) -- causing odd nitrite spikes every now and then as they leech out into the water. Lost a couple otos / relocated the rest. 

On the bright side, the plants are skyrocketing with no C02 injection and stock/recycled lighting.

Here's a FTS when I planted (top) and yesterday (bottom):

















Limnophila Repens Mini & Green Cabomba shot up like weeds. One of the Aromatica / Star Repens (?) with dark purple leaves got uprooted today by that pesky 1.5" long MTS which I relocated. I thought it wasn't getting much growth but got to take a look at the new root structure, multiple new roots going 1"+ long! It'll probably settle in a shoot up soon. The coloration isn't lost in the 2nd shot, I just planted it lower and you can't see under the leaves. I'll take some closer shots as they grow out a bit more.

Only plant dying is my emersed xmas moss I found on evilbay :/


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

Emersed X-mas moss could be transitioning. Don't count it dead yet. And give the soil some more time. It should be ok.


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

i'm diggin that bamboo forest xenxes  ya that limno repens is kinda crazy... it grows well emersed and submersed as long as its got dirt lol. the best part about it submersed tho is you can let them grow tall or you can shape them like a chia pet lol.

i thought of using the moisture control stuff before, but i opted for using miracle grow cactus/citrus mix. i liked it because it was a loose soil that drained easily. again this soil was intended for my emersed pots only... it wasn't until i had a pile of extra mud that i decided to throw it into my little 5g with a pfs cap. 

i posted it this morning in another thread, it was totally murky for a month, it only started to clear a few days ago. no fish in it tho, its a plant only. i haven't tested the water but i'm sure there was all kind of spikes going on in there...plants happy as heck tho it seems.

+1 on cable's comment regarding the moss... and don't sweat it, i may have a clump of xmas moss for you next ROAK :O


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## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

Looks great Fisherman! You have a lot of species in there, even for a 20 gallon long. 

Two questions:
1. Where is your Type 2 go?
2. What is the crypt that you have displayed a few posts above?

Amazing growth...for reals!


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## Alaizabelle (Apr 7, 2011)

Oh my, I think that is one of the most beautiful 20L setups I've ever seen!! Keep posting pictures, please!


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

I realized the moisture control dirt isn't all that different from organic, I should have just sifted through it, and probably baked it / set it out for ammonia to evaporate. 

Next tank I'm setting up is going to be like yours, no more gimmicky moss trees or lucky bamboos lol, just plants.

Do you have journals for your other tanks?


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

crazydaz said:


> Looks great Fisherman! You have a lot of species in there, even for a 20 gallon long.
> 
> Two questions:
> 1. Where is your Type 2 go?
> ...


crazy my 20L is only a humble attempt to come close to the awesomeness of your 200g biotope! ur words mean a lot bro thank you!

i have two so called "type 2'" stems (according to the sellers)... i have a mini rotala and an eriocaulon setaceum. i'll post some pics today 


Sent from my iPhone


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

Alaizabelle said:


> Oh my, I think that is one of the most beautiful 20L setups I've ever seen!! Keep posting pictures, please!


again alaizabelle, i am humbled by your kind words... i only strive to keep a tank as beautiful and healthy as other hobbyists in the forum whim i learn from. your words are very encouraging thank you soo much! 


Sent from my iPhone


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

xenxes said:


> I realized the moisture control dirt isn't all that different from organic, I should have just sifted through it, and probably baked it / set it out for ammonia to evaporate.
> 
> Next tank I'm setting up is going to be like yours, no more gimmicky moss trees or lucky bamboos lol, just plants.
> 
> Do you have journals for your other tanks?


idk man i kinda dig the bamboo forest lol... but i totally uderstand your position. the little 5g dirt tank was just a "happy accident" as bob ross would say... i wasn't expecting anything really to thrive. the reward for me is the fact that the plants in tere were ratty plants cuttigs and throw aways that just decided to make the 5g their home!

i am always happy not to throw plant mass away. not sure if the water is safe for fishies yet tho. maybe in anither month i'll give it a shot


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

Progress 02-04-12

just a couple progress pics pre-maintenance (probably tomorrow). not going to trim this weekend. i think i'm gonna let it get a little wild this
month. my fish love the plant cover, and i'm starting to see spawning behavior so, i want to be careful with what i pluck out lol


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## LetThereBeFish (Dec 7, 2011)

Love this tank man. Its super with extra duper served on top! :hihi: I agree, you should let it grow out a bit. I always had a liking for "junglefied" tanks myself. :biggrin:


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

LetThereBeFish said:


> Love this tank man. Its super with extra duper served on top! :hihi: I agree, you should let it grow out a bit. I always had a liking for "junglefied" tanks myself. :biggrin:


LTBF bro, again i am humbled by your words of encouragement. i can only attribute any sucess my tank has had to this forum and members like yourself who've taught and inspired me in my own goals. i love this forum... PT network FTW!! 


Sent from my iPhone


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

Progress 02-05-12 Super Sunday

Post WC FTS









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## adriano (Nov 4, 2011)

Very nice.


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

adriano said:


> Very nice.


thank you sir 


Sent from my iPhone


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## zachary908 (Feb 12, 2011)

Tank is looking good, You've got some neat plants in there.


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

Progress shots 02-09-12

i've been busting my arse at work for the past two weeks. i've been getting home late everynight so much so my tanks are lights out when i get home... tonight i made an exception and woke up my fishies. i needed to see my beloved 20L

i skipped a trim last week and the plants are acting like they're in a race for total domination!

here are some progress shots of the late evening 

FTS facing left








the stargrass hotel
















angle shot tank left








angle shot tank right








rainbow pic








top of tank








my wife's personal pic








FTS facing right








btw guys (u know who u are)... u were right... i got one bulb running and now the brown algae is history...thanks for the advice! 


Sent from my iPhone


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## zachary908 (Feb 12, 2011)

Haha, you must have been posting when I replied. The pictures look great, as do the plants and fish. Nice job.


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

zachary908 said:


> Tank is looking good, You've got some neat plants in there.


thanks bro... sorry about flaking on the plant package man. something came up and i had to prioritize, plus i still haven't made final payment on my co2 reg, its been on hold for over a month now 







Sent from my iPhone


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## zachary908 (Feb 12, 2011)

No worries, I'll have plants whenever you are ready again.


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## Marconis (Nov 8, 2010)

Tank looks great. Nice to see people from Queens in here!


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

Marconis said:


> Tank looks great. Nice to see people from Queens in here!


thanks bro... dude u live like 15min away from me... my sister lives in astoria. maybe we can trade plants sometime when i'm in the hood 


Sent from my iPhone


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## Marconis (Nov 8, 2010)

thefisherman said:


> thanks bro... dude u live like 15min away from me... my sister lives in astoria. maybe we can trade plants sometime when i'm in the hood
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone


Sounds good :biggrin:


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

Progress 02-10-12

kiss, kiss, good night FTS 









considering removing the dwarf lily on the left and relocating stargrass hotel... i think my dwarf lily knows it too, i've never seen her this red!


warmest regards,

thefisherman


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

Progress 02-13-12 post wc

i've thought about it long and hard... considering a pretty serious rearrangement of plants this weekend. 

i thought about removing the dwarf lily on the left but i checked and its pretty well rooted. that and its been showing off for me the past several days giving me large deep red leaves that make me happy so, she conviced me to try another direction.

the keys to my strategy can be summarized as follows:

- limiting rerangement to stem plants only. i have many wonderful rooting crypts that are being shaded by growth. the crypts don't mind but i'd like to be able to see them 
- the rooted plants delineate plantable zones where i can move/arrange the stems
- removing hardscape. as mch as my shrimp and little critters like my moss covered driftwood... its footprint uses up a lot of real estate. i need to
give up a piece, especially my favorite one that has flame moss and h. pinatifiia attached to it  ... but then again, how can i appreciate it behind the overhrowth 
- create a rotala corner. i'm making a decisive move to cram my beastly rotalas in the back corner of my tank. rhe flow in my tank will lend nicely to long stems and hope they will form a canopy when allowed to grow out. they are way too fast growers to go vertical in a shallow 12" tall tank
-relocating stargrass hotel... the stargrass is a invert favorite and is possibly the only reason they haven't been the main course for my ciclids lol... but i need to lose about 50% if the plant mass and/or temive it completely not sure yet tho
- moving sexy stems front and center. i've invested a lot of time and $$$ collecting these guys not to give them their proper place in the tank. too many to name atm lol... but believe me their in there (alive and thriving thankfully)

here's an FTS to remember pre-upheaval













- thefisherman


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Stems can look really good planted very densely in small groups. In the past, I have done as small as about 2x2in of various stems in the background. 

I tend to not use hardscape combined with a lot of stems. Not only does it take up real estate, it also is often hard to predict around growth. Ditching the hardscape isn't bad in a tank that doesn't need it, IMO.

I actually like stargrass but not in a high tech tank. It grows like a weed in every tank, much less with CO2 and high light. I don't know if you are considering getting rid of it but I would keep some. Again, it's a nice looking plant, it just can take over.

I think with some minor moving around, you can create a tank that is more "dynamic" while being easier to maintain at the same time. It does look good as is, but I think some denser planting and some planning can allow you to have more going on in the same amount of space.


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

talontsiawd said:


> Stems can look really good planted very densely in small groups. In the past, I have done as small as about 2x2in of various stems in the background.
> 
> I tend to not use hardscape combined with a lot of stems. Not only does it take up real estate, it also is often hard to predict around growth. Ditching the hardscape isn't bad in a tank that doesn't need it, IMO.
> 
> ...


your advice is always well recieved and appreciated bro... i thought of doing that (planting tight blocks of stems) initially when i started the 20L. of course i was inspired by the dutch style and stem gardens i've seen on out there... 









and i may do something similar but with one major exception...my crypts.

i've got literally 12 or more species currently planted in there. even though they don't mind being shaded and like being recessed in the overgrowth...its only ok for now cuz they are slow growers but...many of the crypts will grow big and i have to consider their future growth especially when i start gassing co2. more importantly i put them there so i can (see) appreciate them and they're all hidden lol

just thinking out loud...i'm sure a pure stem tank has its own rewards and challenges. especially now that i have the plant mass to do so. my little dirt 5g is yielding some nice surprises. ratty stems from a tank take down in january, surprisingly have bounced back with a vengance. now that they have, i am realizing i have rare treasures i almost threw out (i'll post pics). i would love to showcase these and reintroduce my r. wallichi and sp. cabomba into a stem only tank. plus i've always been drawn to dutch style and collectoritis type tanks. i may still do this but perhaps in another tank... omg another tank! lol

getting back on track... i feel that i have welcome challenges in the rescape ahead. i may not totally remove all my hardscape (i have 4pcs of driftwood in there believe it or not) but definately 2 pieces. it sux cuz my flame moss is starting to shape up and i have h. pinitafidia growng on one. but we'll see.

as far as the stargrass... bro you know i've got the needle leaf rotalas all ripe for you. i will be more than happy to share the stargrass, i have tons. especially since i plan to remove most of it from this tank. the portions i do keep, i may either cut them down and keep them low (which isn't really working for me)... or relocate them to the front corners of my tank. heck i might just float those suckers and use them as green filler behnd my red lilys. we'll see.

i've got microswords in there right now that because of where they are (in the directin of flow) just collect a lot of mulm and poop. those guys are outta there! definately gonna be part of the next ROAK package lol. the only grassy type i will keep are the blyxa japonica you sent me 

so the stargrass hotel will soon be the stargrass motel at the far corners of the tank. the central position in my tank will mist likely be my centerpiece driftwood/flame moss and a surprise weed in my tank Syngonanthus sp. 'Belem'. i didn't think this would thrive in an excel only situation but surprisingly it is competing with my rotalas! it is also part of the reason for the rescape since its lower shoots are being shaded... and i don't think it likes it :O i know my tonina fluvalitis definately doesn't like being shaded lol.

you'll be surprised talon when i rescape and bring forward the plants my rotalas are literally overshadowing. now that i am a little more experienced grower, i can inly now begin to visualize my tank in a new way. i love this hobby! 







- thefisherman


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

You don't have to have a dutch scape to take advantage of stems. My first scape on my 29 was 100% stems (I am including HM and HC as stems) but it was not dutch, even though it didn't have much of a hardscape at all. Speedie has had a bunch of great examples of "colectoritis" tanks that were not dutch style.

I am not saying it's a bad way to go, or that you couldn't do dutch style with crypts involved either. There are just many ways to take advantage of really beautiful stems without being in that style. 

Regardless, I think you could create something even better than you have now with some rearranging. I think your tank looks great, but doing some layering with some of your stems will look exceptional. Use the simple tricks like varying color, leaf shape, leaf size, and general appearance and you can really start packing stems in, while maintaining the look of each individual plant, and the look of the tank overall.


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

talontsiawd said:


> You don't have to have a dutch scape to take advantage of stems. My first scape on my 29 was 100% stems (I am including HM and HC as stems) but it was not dutch, even though it didn't have much of a hardscape at all. Speedie has had a bunch of great examples of "colectoritis" tanks that were not dutch style.
> 
> I am not saying it's a bad way to go, or that you couldn't do dutch style with crypts involved either. There are just many ways to take advantage of really beautiful stems without being in that style.
> 
> Regardless, I think you could create something even better than you have now with some rearranging. I think your tank looks great, but doing some layering with some of your stems will look exceptional. Use the simple tricks like varying color, leaf shape, leaf size, and general appearance and you can really start packing stems in, while maintaining the look of each individual plant, and the look of the tank overall.


thanks again for the inspirational words... i've been a fan of speedie's crypt pages... if his collectoritis tank is anywhere as painfully beautiful as his crypts... i have to check them out! lol

alas "using the old tricks" to vareiate and layer my stems is still a new trick to a noob like me  i hate to use tr cliche easier said than done... its definately going to be a challenge. not sure anymore if i can even do the rearrangement as part of this weeks maintenance as i have to take care of the elders (grammy and gramps) and work freelance this weekend :/

but at least now i can afford my new dual stage regulators!!!  thank you maknwar!



- thefisherman


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

2-16-12 progress

good morning FTS









- thefisherman


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

i woke up early and decided to do the trim before my wife woke up lol. i moved the stargrass and 1 dwarf lily to my nano. i decided to just hack the rotalas down to the base and will continue to do so in the same fashion. i think these guys have earned their place in the center of my tank.

since removing the stargrass i happily discovered my Syngonanthus sp. 'Belem' with numerous offshoots. i might pull a plantbrain and ladder them in size order along my driftwood  in the meantime it opened up a nice little patch front and center where i moved some of my hidden stems.... p. yatabeanus, limno broad leaf and rotala type 2.

also to my pleasant suprise i found a baby c. cordata thailand sprouting up from a rhizom i planted and long thought melted!  

the far corner left where the dwarf lily was uprooted left plenty if space for a crypt corner... where my balansae, retrospiralis and wendtii green now reside. i also decided to keep my driftwood and create a cove for the crypts... it is now flanked with lidwigua acurta-repens, an h. pinatifidia

overall the height of the plants have been chopped in half and i am pleased with the outcome. i am less afraid to hack away as many weeks of laborous maintenance have proved to me that my plants are at home and will grow with a vengance... now i am almost afraid to setup my co2 this week lol

my iphone ran out of space so i could only pop off an FTS post trim. will post later this evening 




- thefisherman


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

Progress post trim 02-18-12









- thefisherman


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## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

MUCH better.....it was looking a bit scraggly in the previous shot.....

I wasn't going to say anything, though!


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## Al Slick (Jan 22, 2012)

Your plants seem to grow sooo fast! Your tank looks great and I like that you're trying to open up some space for some of the beautiful plants you have in there!


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

crazydaz said:


> MUCH better.....it was looking a bit scraggly in the previous shot.....
> 
> I wasn't going to say anything, though!


lol... please all comments and criticisms are welcome! besides it wouldn't change the fact that i am still a fan of (and inspired by) your 200g! 


- thefisherman


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

Al Slick said:


> Your plants seem to grow sooo fast! Your tank looks great and I like that you're trying to open up some space for some of the beautiful plants you have in there!


thanks bro... but its my rotalas and stargrass that were on a quest for 20gallon world domination lol :O the other plants were just trying to keep up. i'm glad i finally have the mettle to hack those weeds down and tame the beast.

all my trims beforehand i was lopping the bottoms and replanting the tops for fear of not getting the lush and leafy growth the macrandras are capable of... this was a problem because it was a totally disruptive to uproot and a huge PITA! 

but now i know thats not the case. they have no problem growing in my tank and as i've noted above, they've earned their place at the center of my tank. i will allow them to develop their root system and treat them as such by lopping tops and shaping them like a bush. 

I just ROAK'd those tops, i think the person who will recieve them will be in for a pleasant surprise when they see the size/qty of stems (6"-8" at least 25-30 stems) and beautiful growth and color of the leaves 

as you can see from the previous pics, the overgrowth hid many of the species i did have planted including my moss and driftwood. the best part is..now i have a clear view my beloved crypts! 




- thefisherman


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

Made some space on my iphone... here are the rest of the progress pics 

Progress 02-18-12, post trim

head on FTS








rotala "type 2"... mini red rotala








Egleria fluctuans... this stem is quite special. compared to the regular Egleria, its leaves are longer and stem finer. i'm lucky to have this stem (thank you Kahnzer from thr APC forum). since i planted it, it has divided into several stems... a true softwater beast!








surprise! i planted this H. Pinatifidia January as stem plus offshoot...i didn't realize how big it got until i pulled it from under my rotala afro lol








the crypt corner... i decided to keep my little piece of DW and flame moss hardscape. its shape lent itself well placed to forming a little protected niche in the front corner of my tank. a little niche for my crypts... wendtii green, balansae and retrospiralis. i know these guys will love this spot cuz they're sitting ontop of osmocote tabs i planted a while ago (probabbly why my dwarf lily went arnold shvwarzenager in this spot lol)








full view of the tank in our room...










- thefisherman


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

Progress pic 02-19-12

started gassing co2 last night. got a great deal for a used dual stage regulator plus 20# tank. i'm running the GLA inline diffuser on the outflow. hope my fish aren't floating when i get home! :O





















- thefisherman


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Not looking it's best but I give it a week before it looks amazing. I hate posting rescapes myself for that reason, lol. 

I thought you were running CO2 all along for some reason (probably the plants you sent me lol). You will become a very experienced trimmer in no time, lol, a 20 long with good light and CO2 can get crazy with stems.


Let me know how you like your GLA inline. I am planning to get one soon as my glass diffuser isn't really fitting in with my setup. In back it pushes the plants forward, upfront, I don't like the look. 

I know it's too late but I suggest to never make CO2 adjustments when you are not home all day, much less setup a new setup. Hope you are OK there. 

Congrats on the new rig. I am not sure how long my 20lb lasts as my first 2 refills were due to a leak. Still lasted like 6 months with a leak, lol, I actually didn't know it was leaking. This fill is going on it's second year. 

Hopefully you aren't past your hydro test before your next refill lol. Keep that date in mind if it isn't recent and drain your tank, I am serious, it's a possibility and will save you some cash if you are swapping tanks. Tank doesn't look new, not sure if you needed to test and looks like a swapper, only reason I bring it up.


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

talontsiawd said:


> Not looking it's best but I give it a week before it looks amazing. I hate posting rescapes myself for that reason, lol.
> 
> I thought you were running CO2 all along for some reason (probably the plants you sent me lol). You will become a very experienced trimmer in no time, lol, a 20 long with good light and CO2 can get crazy with stems.
> 
> ...


talon i appreciate your candidness and is the reason why i hold your opinion in such high regard... Plantbrain puts it best in a prevoius thread when he said: 

"Scaping versus merely growing plants are two very different goals."... 

In view of this I think I fall into the latter category lol.  because i have collectoritis, a lot of what i've been doing is cramming as many species of plants in my tank as i can... and hoping they grow!

its been an increadible learning experience thus far....I'm just glad my rare softwater stems are thriving an producing new plantlets.

i myself are surprised how well my plants have grown sans co2... but the price to pay is great. i've overdosed excel and killed some poor fishies in the process before I found the right daily dosage.... also i've found it very expensive. i used a 500ml bottle in a month. so co2 injection is a logical and cost saving investment. 

problem with excel dosing is the uneven co2 levels. hopefully with the metered injection, the tank will benefit. havin dinner now with the fam... sisters birthday. about a bottle of jameson and 4 heinekins right now... if my fish are floating i either won't care or cry like a baby lol.

cheers bro.. remember i have plants for you! 









- thefisherman


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## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

Yeah, you'll love the pressurized CO2, Fisherman! You get all sorts of crazy growth and insane pearling!

You have to find a different spot for the cylinder, though.....it's a little distracting!


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

crazydaz said:


> Yeah, you'll love the pressurized CO2, Fisherman! You get all sorts of crazy growth and insane pearling!
> 
> You have to find a different spot for the cylinder, though.....it's a little distracting!


thanks crazy...regarding ghe size and location of my tank, i thought my wife would have some words with me... but i guess i got her used to the 2217 and 200w ETH haning off the side of my tank. she has't said a word yet! :O

but this setup wasn't what I planned on having in our room; it was truly a last minute deal. i have a 5lb aluminum tank and a new regulator coming this week (which is what I originally planned for this tank). now i have the option of juicing myother tanks. 

i think i'm gonna see how i do with this setup first. i already have my hands full wothout co2... i'm aftaid maintenance is going to be crazy soon :O


- thefisherman


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

thefisherman said:


> talon i appreciate your candidness and is the reason why i hold your opinion in such high regard...
> 
> 
> i myself are surprised how well my plants have grown sans co2... but the price to pay is great. i've overdosed excel and killed some poor fishies in the process before I found the right daily dosage.... also i've found it very expensive. i used a 500ml bottle in a month. so co2 injection is a logical and cost saving investment.


You have two types of basic scapes, a softscape and a hardscape (and the obvious combination of the two). With a plant driven scape, it hasn't to grow for it to look good but as I said, rescapes (with only plants) almost always look bad until everything grows in. I didn't mean to even have the be negative, it's more just the "I can't wait" factor. It will look sweet and I can see the foundation. 

My 29 probably looks really unappealing to anyone but me right now lol. It's because I know exactly what it's going to look like. The pictures show a wall of plants and a bunch of grass, not too exciting. If my tank comes out as planned, I know I will get the "why didn't I see this tank before" from people who saw that tank before and thought "If I don't have something nice to say, don't say it at all" lol. I am sure you will get the "why didn't I see this already too". I have had the luxury to see how beautifully you grow plants as well so I am sure it looks 10x better in person now, and will look 10x better in pictures soon, that look 10x better in person.


I have ditched the idea of excel so long ago. Even on a small tank, it really isn't that expensive but I just find it doesn't do much compared to CO2. It prevents algae but I don't see much of a difference in growth. It is a great algaecide, either all the time, or when needed, and that is what I use it for. Everyday I am there on my girlfriends 5 gallon, when needed elsewhere. My girls 5 gallon does get algae when i don't use it for long periods of time, as said growth doesn't change. I did the unthinkable (for me) and started DIY CO2 on my 20L rock pile, compared to doubling the recommend excel does (after water change) to DIY, huge difference. Growth is still horribly slow but you may be able to see the grass in pics now, we will see when I update.


Trust me, CO2 will be an "ah ha" moment for you. You are not someone with massive algae issues looking for solutions, again, I have seen your plants, I can say that with confidence. You have a great grasp on things and your tank is about to explode. My first and favorite tank was like this. After that, I was trying to add light and using CO2 with an algaecide mentality, very frustrating, especially when you actually know what you are doing wrong and try to prove yourself wrong lol. 

Sorry, talking a lot here. I can't wait to see this explode and it truly will. Keep your scissors out, you will need them (in a good way). Time to start shaping and making colorful bushes. 


I don't know if you caught it but you said you had the plants ready in my thread and I gave you the word to ship. If they are ready go go, I am saving a place for them (which ironically was the place I had your last plants but decided to move them to a different tank I don't have journal on). 

Sorry for the ramble, I would love to hear your reaction to the change in plant growth once you get your CO2 dialed in. Unless you are shooting way below 30 PPM, or even 15 PPM for that matter, it's not going to be a subtle change. I would love to hear back on that topic in about a week, I will get a kick out of it I am sure.


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

talontsiawd said:


> You have two types of basic scapes, a softscape and a hardscape (and the obvious combination of the two). With a plant driven scape, it hasn't to grow for it to look good but as I said, rescapes (with only plants) almost always look bad until everything grows in. I didn't mean to even have the be negative, it's more just the "I can't wait" factor. It will look sweet and I can see the foundation.
> 
> My 29 probably looks really unappealing to anyone but me right now lol. It's because I know exactly what it's going to look like. The pictures show a wall of plants and a bunch of grass, not too exciting. If my tank comes out as planned, I know I will get the "why didn't I see this tank before" from people who saw that tank before and thought "If I don't have something nice to say, don't say it at all" lol. I am sure you will get the "why didn't I see this already too". I have had the luxury to see how beautifully you grow plants as well so I am sure it looks 10x better in person now, and will look 10x better in pictures soon, that look 10x better in person.
> 
> ...


bro believe me no negative reads at all, if anything.. honest and constructive. which is the most i can ask from anyone reading my thread.  i'm here to learn. if i can even come close to the success others in the PT community has had (including yours!) i feel my hard back breakung work is paying off 

no harm no foul brotha... i didn't realize you were saving a spot! i hacked the bottoms of those needle leaf rotalas... give me a week. i'll ship next monday 


- thefisherman


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

so my fiah are still alive after a full day of gassing. i inspected my setup and noticed a slight hissing noise this morning. i feared there was a pinhole leak sonewhere.

before i decided to use watery soap to trace for the leak, i just did a closer inspection of the outflow line (needle valve to diffuser) and noticed the hissing at the diffuser. i loosened and disconnected the tubing and trimmed a 1/2" off the end... perhaps it was frayed cuz its old tubing... and reconnected/hand tightened the compression ring.

no more hissing! silence.  increased the bubble count to 3-4/sec. 


- thefisherman


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## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

3-4 bubbles/sec is a bit much. I only run 1-2 bubbles/sec on my 200gal and get plenty of growth. I just don't want you to lose fish (potentially). Not trying to be a Negative Nancy, Fish....just trying to help! 

The tank will look fantastic, considering it looked great before the CO2!


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## Doc7 (Apr 7, 2011)

crazydaz said:


> 3-4 bubbles/sec is a bit much. I only run 1-2 bubbles/sec on my 200gal and get plenty of growth. I just don't want you to lose fish (potentially). Not trying to be a Negative Nancy, Fish....just trying to help!
> 
> The tank will look fantastic, considering it looked great before the CO2!



Bubbles per second is a very relative measure though. 

Water vs Mineral Oil bubble counter
Check valve cracking pressure
Diffusion method
Surface movement
Regulator working pressure
Etc

All play into bubble rate.

I run probably at least 10 BPS on my system (5 lb tank lasts 3 months though!) on a 40 Breeder and have trouble maintaining 30 PPM (at least in drop checker locations).

Sent from my BlackBerry 9650 using Tapatalk


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## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

I respectfully agree and disagree with you Doc! Whereas what you say is certainly true, without a drop checker, it becomes an excercise in trial and error. The only way Fish would know that there is too much CO2 in the system without a drop checker is if he either saw the fish gasping at the surface or floating upside down.

Running more than a few bubbles per second is indicative of an inefficient system, but that is simply my opinion. If Fish is running through a diffusor using one filter, there probably isn't a lot of surface agitation where the CO2 would outgas at a really fast rate, which means he probably doesn't need a high bubbles/second rate of CO2. My guess is as good as yours, Doc! 

Fish, I would recommend that you leave it at one or two bubbles/second and see how it goes; if you don't see any improvement in growth over the next two weeks, then you can always increase it, if you want to. If you happen to have a lot of surface agitation or an inefficient diffusor or a drop checker, then you may need to increase your rate as Doc suggests. I say "go slow," and use a little caution; you'll get the same results in the end.


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## Thark (Feb 19, 2012)

You have a very pretty tank! Very colorful and looks like everything grows fast.


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

Thark said:


> You have a very pretty tank! Very colorful and looks like everything grows fast.


thank you for your kind words  as much as i'd like to think everything grows fast... my crypts are generally growing sloooowww lol. best example of this is my parva.

aside from some notable exceptions of course... like the mother crypt planted at the back of my tank that has no name







idk wendtii maybe? :O

all the other crypts are just alive and in some sort of stasis. i hope the introduction of co2 wakes them up tho! 



- thefisherman


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

to answer doc's query below are my params:

I use a Mineral Oil bubble counter








Not sure what my check valve cracking pressure is

GLA inline diffuser








Surface movement... ehiem outflow from a 2217








Regulator working pressure... low side set to 30psi








my gas kicks on for about 10hrs for now...


- thefisherman


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

crazydaz said:


> I respectfully agree and disagree with you Doc! Whereas what you say is certainly true, without a drop checker, it becomes an excercise in trial and error. The only way Fish would know that there is too much CO2 in the system without a drop checker is if he either saw the fish gasping at the surface or floating upside down.
> 
> Running more than a few bubbles per second is indicative of an inefficient system, but that is simply my opinion. If Fish is running through a diffusor using one filter, there probably isn't a lot of surface agitation where the CO2 would outgas at a really fast rate, which means he probably doesn't need a high bubbles/second rate of CO2. My guess is as good as yours, Doc!
> 
> Fish, I would recommend that you leave it at one or two bubbles/second and see how it goes; if you don't see any improvement in growth over the next two weeks, then you can always increase it, if you want to. If you happen to have a lot of surface agitation or an inefficient diffusor or a drop checker, then you may need to increase your rate as Doc suggests. I say "go slow," and use a little caution; you'll get the same results in the end.


so i just got home a little while ago to find out that i totally fried what was remaining of my Amano shrimp! . wish i saw your warning sooner!

apparently inverts don't like super soft water...my fish on the otherhand seem to be pretty content. the remaining species are:

GBR
Dwarf Neon Rainbow
Chili Rasboras
Cardinal Tetras
Cory Hasboras
Ottocinclus

even though my shrimp looked like they belonged on a platter at red lobster... none of my fish seem stressed or gasping for air. quite the contrary they seem to be swimming around happier than ever. so my question now is...what now?

do i push the envelope; keep going until i see fish gasping? :O right now i have my outflow raised to oxygenate my water for safe measure. i might just stick with 3 bps for now but shorten my duration... i.e. gas for 7-8hrs instead of 10-11. this is all new territory for me 







- thefisherman


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## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

I would suggest doing 2-3 bubbles/sec for 10 hours. I think that you will notice that your fish will become more active because if you get the plants pearling, you are creating an aquatic environment super-saturated with oxygen. The plants pearl because the oxygen they are releasing during carbon fixation cannot diffuse back into the water because there is excess oxygen. More oxygen for the fish=more active they can be!

I think that your "normal" outflow rate is fine....I don't think that you need to raise it. I've been able to get by for quite a while learning from my mistakes and common sense. I don't think that you should push the envelope until you can be at home and keep an eye on things.


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## Doc7 (Apr 7, 2011)

crazydaz said:


> I respectfully agree and disagree with you Doc! Whereas what you say is certainly true, without a drop checker, it becomes an excercise in trial and error. The only way Fish would know that there is too much CO2 in the system without a drop checker is if he either saw the fish gasping at the surface or floating upside down.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



:redface:

Found a leak in my DIY bubble counter today (which has been running for 5 months...and coincidentally must have started leaking last week at the same time as installation of surface skimmer). I'm sure I'll be back in the 5-6ish BPS soon now. 

Sent from my BlackBerry 9650 using Tapatalk


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

I'm glad you found your leak doc...

progress fts overhead 2-22-12









- thefisherman


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Boo pressurized CO2 

I'm fighting the urge, don't want to OD CO2 and kill off my fauna, which I probably would do.


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

Progress 02-23-12

day 4 of injecting co2.. i am incrementally up to 3bps for 10hrs. fish are unphased and it seems my plants are responding well, particularly some crypts that i thought melted (albida, ustrriana, cordata thailand) i am seeing new plantlets, sprouts and rhizome shooters.

as much as i would like to attribute the new growth to the co2, i can't imagine its the only factor. after my recent conversation with gordon richards and research on crypts... i am confident the root caps and matured eco substrate have a lot to do with it. but the co2 is the icing on the cake.

my stems on the oterhand are nutrient hogs, and their growth is much more noticable. my rotalas of course will look like a grenade mid explosion soon, most notably my red
macrandra and type 2 are super erect almost to the surface in 4 days time.

i have a bit if a flow problem in that my current is pretty strong at the left end of my tank. i have ludwigia hybrid repens/arcuata that is getting blown over into my limno A. gotta figure out a new spot for the stems but then there will be a huge empty space of wasted real estate back there... i'm thinking something low growing rooted, dense... you read my
mind, crypts of course!

i am planning on donating my dwarf lily to Al this weekend...i will be happy to contribute this wonderful red plant to his 29g white sand scape.  i brought up some baby bulbs of red tiger lily that i got to sprout... these will take its place.

i have two other species of stems i am considering to reintroduce... r. walichi and cabomba silvergreen... i am hesitant however due to the growth i've had with these weeds in no fert/no co2 situations. i may opt for a more difficult stem such as a pogostemon... for me this has been a challenging stem to grow/propogate. maybe because i ressusitated my p. stellatus from a single bare stem in a half dead pot from the LFS lol... but man it took forever to grow.

bottom line for me is green. i feel i have plenty of red creating percievably dark spots in the tank. would love to find a softwater leafy green plant (not hygro lol) for the reds to pop out. still searching.

morning fts








the stargrass motel revisited... happily in my nano










- thefisherman


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

Progress 02-24-12

remove my beloved dwarf lily an wrapped her up for shipping. i decided to send her to a new home to someone well deserving and care for her the same 

taking her place is a baby bulb of tiger lily that i got to sprout from my 30b. not sure yet of its growth pattern but i know their leaves can get huge, so i got my eye on this one 

in the meantime i planted new crypts last night to add to my emersed collection. i got a bunch of var c. willissi (nevilli), tropica, pontersifolia, undulata var., lucens, lucens hybrid and wendtii hybrid. alot of nice emersed grown. out of the bunch i decided to submerse the nevilli and wendti hybrid

c. nevilli (willisi)







c. wendtii hybrid








as i am observing the growth in my tank post co2... the true weeds are standing out. of course my
rotalas are in pole position, amd now i am noticing my limno broad leaf and. p. yatabeanus waking up... a stem plant shuffle might be in order for this week's maintenance lol

furthermore i moved my ludwiga (due to my strong water flow) and now i can't even see them behind my rotalas... the most alarming instance is my erio type 3... plantbrain was right in that they don't like to be moved because i believe their growth has stunted regardless of the high light/nutrient/co2 emvironment 

i'm still learning... with that said, it may be time to do some serious editing this weekend.

Morning FTS









- thefisherman


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## zachary908 (Feb 12, 2011)

Looks good, bro! That barclaya will looks SICK in here!


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

zachary908 said:


> Looks good, bro! That barclaya will looks SICK in here!


shhhh! lol

noib question... are pH swing normal in co2 injected tanks? i noticed pH raising at night and dropping durin the day :O


- thefisherman


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## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

Little swings are normal. You don't want to see it fluctuate by a full log, though. How much is it rising/dropping?


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

6.6-6.0 :O


- thefisherman


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## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

Errr.....That's probably a bit much.....but likely not "harmful." pH of 6.0 is OK, but towards the lower end of what I am used to seeing from others. You might want to decreased your bubbles/second between 1-2 and see how it goes. Did you say it goes down during the day??! Usually, the pH can drop overnight a bit normally. Confusing!

Are you testing the pH via pH strips or solution?


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

you know what, i'm goin by the drop checker i got from one of the TPT guys... according to the chart it says my pH is 6.0. it. changes color overnight and in the morning it reads 6.8 (according to the chart)

my water is typically 6.4-6.6. but this was before co2. i have an APT liquid test kit, i will check tonight and then tomorrow to be more accurate 



- thefisherman


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

> Carbon dioxide can change the pH of water. This is how it works:
> 
> Carbon dioxide dissolves slightly in water to form a weak acid called carbonic acid, H2CO3, according to the following reaction:
> CO2 + H2O --> H2CO3
> ...


Sudden pH drops and oxygen reduction from CO2 injection can inhibit nitrobacter (aerobic bacteria with optimal pH of 7.3-7.5 but will tolerate 5.8-8.5). Keep an eye on your nitrite levels! Read about several tank crashes from this before. Be careful :/

I'd lower the bps and do a w/c if you're seeing a spike. Buffer with baking soda if absolutely necessary (I don't like messing with pH artificially).


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

xenxes said:


> Sudden pH drops and oxygen reduction from CO2 injection can inhibit nitrobacter (aerobic bacteria with optimal pH of 7.3-7.5 but will tolerate 5.8-8.5). Keep an eye on your nitrite levels! Read about several tank crashes from this before. Be careful :/
> 
> I'd lower the bps and do a w/c if you're seeing a spike. Buffer with baking soda if absolutely necessary (I don't like messing with pH artificially).


YAOWZER! :O thanks fir te heads up xenxes... gona do a full water chemistry test tonight!


- thefisherman


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

ok so i just came home...

pH 6.0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 5ppm

I can't find my extra test tubes so i'll check my KH/GH after dinner 


- thefisherman


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

thefisherman said:


> ok so i just came home...
> 
> pH 6.0
> Nitrite 0
> ...


KH 1
GH 6-8

tomorrow's a maintenance day anyway so i'll be doing a 50% wc... i'll start monitoring water chemistry tomorrow


- thefisherman


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Lol sorry for the scare. You're fine then  Just keep the CO2 steady, it still takes time. When you force nature too much there's sometimes repercussions. 

I've only read about nitrifying bacteria going haywire from pH and oxygen drop, not sure about nitrosifyers. Just do an Nitrite test before each w/c. 

You have so many plants... how do you keep track of what's where?


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

oh yeah btw...







how sweet it is! 


- thefisherman


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

That just looks intimidating. All I can imagine is an exploding CO2 tank with shrapnel flying in every direction.

Hey you have a cylindrical vase too! And jars! Pics!


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## zachary908 (Feb 12, 2011)

thefisherman said:


> oh yeah btw...
> View attachment 42724
> 
> how sweet it is!
> ...


That's one sexy regulator, bro. Pming you.


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

xenxes said:


> That just looks intimidating. All I can imagine is an exploding CO2 tank with shrapnel flying in every direction.
> 
> Hey you have a cylindrical vase too! And jars! Pics!


oh uhh...tissue culture microprop...whut?! sorry man idk what ur talking about :O


- thefisherman


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

hmm my pH didn't budge its still 6.0

maybe i'm being a noob and the chart is reffering to the pH of the reference material not my tank water! 

i'm gonna check again
post wc


- thefisherman


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

pic from above








so you see that dark spot on the left? its the vacant bottom of my tank. i have a flow problem, wherein this far side of my tank (where the current does a 90deg change direction) makes this area:

-difficult to plant (especially bunch lanky stems)
-if i do plant stuff it collects mulm and waste
-easily uprooted (my GBR does't help)

aside from putting hardscape and without reducing or reconfiguring outflow... any suggestions? 

maybe a sworplant or something... definately something tall leafy and green








i originally thought of crypts but... not sure anymore 





- thefisherman


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

What if you got a small power head or hob and aim it against the other output? Better flow means better nutrient and co2 diffusion. Then you can plant whatever you want! Wouldn't worry about the pH too much unless it drops below 6. You have any pH sensitive fauna?


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

xenxes said:


> What if you got a small power head or hob and aim it against the other output? Better flow means better nutrient and co2 diffusion. Then you can plant whatever you want! Wouldn't worry about the pH too much unless it drops below 6. You have any pH sensitive fauna?


i have a koralia 250gph :O it might get a little crazy in there if i use it... fish with surfboards and all lol

yeah i'm gonna leave my co2 dial and water parameters alone for now... the true test is the coming weeks after mauntenance and everything is reset.

yeah i have a few pH sensitive fauna... they're all dead! 


- thefisherman


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

I have a 200gph hob, a 100gph hob, and a 53gph hob all going at the same time (just removed a 4th 100gph, will probably also remove the 53gph soon it's not doing much).

It's fine as long as your stems aren't being blown in half. No such thing as overfiltration in my mind. 

If you aim 2 power heads at each other, it won't be any worse than a strong unidirectional flow. The 2 flows will meet and scatter in different directions so all areas of your tank get some movement, they're not strong enough to crash and cause a tsunami 

Sorry to hear about the fauna.  You are turning it off at night, it's on a timer? What was your pH before introducing CO2? If it was 6.6 from your other post, you may want to buffer it with a little calcium sand or crushed corals so it defaults to the upper 7's and drop down 0.6 during the day when CO2 is on. I don't know though, I buffered my 5g tank with coral rocks that has a mopani wood in it leeching strong tannins.

Also did you do an Ammonia check before the W/C?  I did read nitrosomonas also slow down when pH drops below 6.


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## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

ANY type of planted aquarium is a lesson in humility. That lesson is repeated ad nauseum regardless of age or experience or research. Life is a journey, not a destination.

You love it.


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

xenxes said:


> I have a 200gph hob, a 100gph hob, and a 53gph hob all going at the same time (just removed a 4th 100gph, will probably also remove the 53gph soon it's not doing much).
> 
> It's fine as long as your stems aren't being blown in half. No such thing as overfiltration in my mind.
> 
> ...


i've created a vortex to the land of the lost bro!















- thefisherman


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

crazydaz said:


> ANY type of planted aquarium is a lesson in humility. That lesson is repeated ad nauseum regardless of age or experience or research. Life is a journey, not a destination.
> 
> You love it.


thank you for your words of wisdom and encouragement... now send me a buce sprout! jk 


- thefisherman


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Haha I see that water movement! Can you move it up or angle it up anymore? 

Good thing about the HOBs is that the stronger current is only at the water surface when the water line is high enough. Never used a circulation pump before. Worried about your stems, they're not bending?


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

Progress post wc 02-25-12

man that was a pita! after xenxes suggested to open a wormhole into the nuetral zone i decided the koralia 250gph powerhead was a no go lol 

instead i shifted the outflow parallel to the back glass. as a result an extensive game of stem plant musical chairs ensued for several hours! 

the biggest move for me was relocatin the limno aromatica to the right side of my tank... an area i envisioned for my crypt balansae, undulata and retrospiralis... too bad it takes them a century to grow....i'm sure they won't mind being shaded lol

the back row of stem groups were then replanted... i bunched them up and tied them with plant lead... i had to since the flow is so string back there, with tighter groupngd and a nice hack of the top, these rotalas are tame in the current.

my pogostemon stellata is growing strong, but growth has been slow/steady. i've had this plant for months now and only now i've managed to grow two beautiful uniform stalks. hopefully with the co2 they wake up.

i realize a lot of my crypts were planted shallow... too shallow. i had to shove a few down and accidentally uprooted a few neighbors releasing osmocote balls in the water lol. it wasn't as bad as it could've been 

after the stem merry go round... i eneded up with a larger vacant parcel of real estate back left corner of the tank... the only solution i admitted to myself was some type of hardscape... enter this piece of DW i had in my grow out tank. it has windelov (i think) and philippine java fern (i realized) growing on it. it seems to be the ideal answer for a flow buffer that difuses the current and my fish love lol

half a day later this is what i got 












- thefisherman


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## frrok (May 22, 2011)

I like it! I got a 20 Long in my basement that I'm just dying to set up as a grow out tank. With all stems. But my girl will kill me if I set up another one! Haha


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

frrok said:


> I like it! I got a 20 Long in my basement that I'm just dying to set up as a grow out tank. With all stems. But my girl will kill me if I set up another one! Haha


tell me about it bro... wait till you get married! :O


- thefisherman


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

Lights out FTS










- thefisherman


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

> man that was a pita! after xenxes suggested to open a wormhole into the nuetral zone i decided the koralia 250gph powerhead was a no go lol


Lol! I take it the flow was too strong? Unstable wormhole led you five thousand light years away from the Delta quadrant?

Looking good


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

xenxes said:


> Lol! I take it the flow was too strong? Unstable wormhole led you five thousand light years away from the Delta quadrant?
> 
> Looking good


bro you know if you told me to jump i would ask "how high sir?!"


- thefisherman


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

2-26-12

morning fts








pH is 6.0 this morning so i had a .4 drop overnight. i guess thats not too bad.

finally got the new regulator running on the smaller tank... my wifes happy that huge steel guy is out of our room... i kinda liked that industrial feel! lol









- thefisherman


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## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

Have you increased your ferts at all to take into account the faster growth rates of the plants?


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

crazydaz said:


> Have you increased your ferts at all to take into account the faster growth rates of the plants?


nope... but i've been overestimating dosage all this time, using the same values for my 30B. but your totally right tho i should probabbly think about increasing my ferts. right now my NO3 is at 5ppm.


- thefisherman


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

Progress 02-27-12

Came home after the first full day with the new regulator setup...
word of advice, go with clippard solenoid and swagelock needle valve, period.

The setup is running but the amount of adjustment i had to do to dial in a consistent bubble count.... ugh. i'll see how it goes tomorrow.

so... i've got the pedal to the metal with ferts/co2 and 2x T5HO bulbs running.my plants and fish seem to be enjoying time in the sun but, i noticed these tiny specs of growth on my Syngonanthus sp. 'Belem' !

is this the beginning if dreaded BBA?! 







not sure if you guys can see it but... look very closely to the leaf tips of the back row of stems... it looks like soil particles! too much light? would love your thoughts on this one 

well here are a couple pics around the neighborhood...

Tonina Fluvalitis... they don't look their best but I had them in my tank for several weeks without co2... some new growth (in the back) are stunted but i think the rest will bounce back with the new parameters.








rotala type 2 mini... these look happy no matter what i do co2 or not... defibately happy in softwater under the high light








ahh my rotalas... i just hacked these guys down on saturday and already new sprouts 1"-2" long!








close up of my crypt walissi. i got this as an emersed plant. super healthy when i planted it no signs of melt.








mu other crypts on the right side... c wendtii hybrid and mi oya... mi oya's been shedding leaves but seems to be bouncing back. the wendtii is melting its leaves, but maybe its just converting to submersed form idk. gotta keep my eye on this one.








last but not least...nyt myt FTS 














- thefisherman


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## Al Slick (Jan 22, 2012)

Hey your tank looks amazing!

I have been considering a small CO2 setup, maybe paintball, right now my diy is working steadily and I know it's contributing to growth so maybe I can be patient  

I have a question you might be able to help me with.. I know that this kind of info is all over the internet, but I was hoping you could give me your own experience.. 
Right now I'm dosing Seachem flourish at just a little higher than recommended but I fear that my Macros will soon be insufficient. I have very little bioload and fairly dense planting. Everything is growing well at the moment but I'm concerned that it may all come to a halt when my nitrates etc. are completely diminished..

What do you suggest I do ?

should I dose... increase bioload... just stick with lots of water changes?

And right now this weather in TN has got me wanting to go catch some bass really badly!
I know you're a fisherman so I just thought you might understand haha


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

Al Slick said:


> Hey your tank looks amazing!
> 
> I have been considering a small CO2 setup, maybe paintball, right now my diy is working steadily and I know it's contributing to growth so maybe I can be patient
> 
> ...


thank tou Al

well i think co2 is a considerable investment. because of this, if you were going to spend a single dime towards co2... it should be a permanent setup that should last the life of your hobby.

i feel like the paintball co2 although ideal in small cramped apartments and maybe your student residence... is still alot of money!! and more costly in the long run because in order to maintain 30ppm of co2 (typically 2-3 bps)...you are gonna blow through those disposable cylinders pretty fast.

therefoee if you got something now (ie DIY co2) its better than nothing. if you've got good growth, maybe not explosive but good healthy plants, why mess with it?

i would rather spend money on more plants or dry ferts!!  remember my 20L up until last week was an excel only tank. 

in terms of ferts... i recommend investing in dry ferts NPK, Plantex CSM + boron etc.

i say this because the initial
investment (3X 1lb bags) could last you a year or more easily. plus you can control exactly what goes into your tank regardless of bioload.

I've tried Flourish and you're right, its not complete. You need to get Flourish Macro or Comprehensive etc. All of which i feel is expensive for bottled water with vitamins.

dry ferts all the way, and maybe some DIY osmocote caps for some root feeders. 

hope this helps!

ps... i <3 bass! the run starts here before memorial day... backbay stalking for me soon !


- thefisherman


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## LetThereBeFish (Dec 7, 2011)

Looking good.....as always! Curse your ability to make plants grow faster than my snail paced plants.:hihi: 

I wouldn't worry about the BBA if you have a good level of CO2. Its amazing how fast it can show up when the CO2 goes down. My tank was bba free, until I kinda ignored replacing the diy co2. Lazy me! :tongue: 

Oh and a question. I notice you talking about dry ferts and how cheap they are in the long run. Where do you get your ferts? Flourish products are starting to put a hole in my wallet and they seem to not be doing the greatest job keeping my plants looking their best.


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## GMYukonon24s (May 3, 2009)

You have a beautiful tank. That makes me really want CO2.


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

LetThereBeFish said:


> Looking good.....as always! Curse your ability to make plants grow faster than my snail paced plants.:hihi:
> 
> I wouldn't worry about the BBA if you have a good level of CO2. Its amazing how fast it can show up when the CO2 goes down. My tank was bba free, until I kinda ignored replacing the diy co2. Lazy me! :tongue:
> 
> Oh and a question. I notice you talking about dry ferts and how cheap they are in the long run. Where do you get your ferts? Flourish products are starting to put a hole in my wallet and they seem to not be doing the greatest job keeping my plants looking their best.


thank you LTBF  but i think you're plants are growing just fine, i doubt i have any different ability aside from having weedy stems lol :O

ya man dry ferts are definately worth the initial investment. i bought mine from AquariumFertilizer.com. but i'm sure there are other places online or local that may have these. pm me if you want a grocery list 


- thefisherman


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

GMYukonon24s said:


> You have a beautiful tank. That makes me really want CO2.


thank you GMY  but don't be fooled i only started gassing a week ago! i just have a lot of weeds, prior my tank was excel only :O i think the true lithmus test (regarding plant growth) is to see any change in my crypt growth, particularly my foreground parva which i love... but jas been growing oh soo sloooow! lol


- thefisherman


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## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

Looking nice Fish!! You could try putting a root tab under the parva to see if that will boost it's growth rate, but that's a slow grower regardless. It will grow "faster," but in relative terms.  You will notice a definitive uptick in the growth of your stems pretty soon!!


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## Al Slick (Jan 22, 2012)

thefisherman said:


> thank tou Al
> 
> well i think co2 is a considerable investment. because of this, if you were going to spend a single dime towards co2... it should be a permanent setup that should last the life of your hobby.
> 
> ...


I'd say that that is sound advice regarding the CO2. I always regret buying something that isn't quite what I was looking for, especially when it isn't exactly cheap in the first place.

I actually am using flourish comprehensive right now and I think that it is doing it's job. Growth slows down towards the end of the week before I dose so I'm thinking about upping it to a twice a week dosage.

I will definitely look into dry fertilizers because that does seem more economical in the long run!

Spring break is next week and I'm going to go home and break out the rods a couple times!


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

Q: If I were a crypt nurii, where would i want my sexy self to be planted in this tank?! :O










- thefisherman


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## GMYukonon24s (May 3, 2009)

Oh just a week with CO2.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

That is looking really good.


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## LetThereBeFish (Dec 7, 2011)

thefisherman said:


> Q: If I were a crypt nurii, where would i want my sexy self to be planted in this tank?! :O
> 
> View attachment 43103
> 
> ...


Well the right side seems to have a empty spot, unless theres a plant there that I can see.


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

LetThereBeFish said:


> Well the right side seems to have a empty spot, unless theres a plant there that I can see.


yup you are correct, there is a spot there...but i am hesitant cuz i have a crazy tiger lily right next to it. those bulb runners look like they can chike a fragile plant i'm kinda skerd 

i might have to relocate or edit one of the baby tiger lily (i have two)... idk i'm not to sure. but if i do edit one out to make room fir zee crypt... then it is def RAOK time! lol

LTBF what do you think of this spot? its kind of a high flow spot/slightly shaded...basically wedged between two pcs of DW









- thefisherman


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## LetThereBeFish (Dec 7, 2011)

Well as long as the flow isn't super strong, it should be a good spot. My wendtii is semi-shaded so I don't the shade will be an issue. If its too far in the back, you might not be able to really enjoy its marvalous beauty.:hihi:


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

LetThereBeFish said:


> Well as long as the flow isn't super strong, it should be a good spot. My wendtii is semi-shaded so I don't the shade will be an issue. If its too far in the back, you might not be able to really enjoy its marvalous beauty.:hihi:


ya you are right... thats the drawback its in the back inly veiwable from the side  maybe i pluck and
move the tiger lily back here and plant the nurii in its place instead 

yes as you can tell i'm a little excited lol... i also have a barclaya bulb coming from zach i was also thinking of plugging back here... man got too many plants yo! :O


- thefisherman


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## zachary908 (Feb 12, 2011)

Lemme know when that barclaya arrives, bro! Some people got their packages today.


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## LetThereBeFish (Dec 7, 2011)

You could always give some plants away *cough...me *cough.... Oh wait I have no room either really. :biggrin:


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

zachary908 said:


> Lemme know when that barclaya arrives, bro! Some people got their packages today.


zach i have one thing to say to you man... buce buce buce gooo bucephalandra!

ok i lied i have another thing to say... i'm soo jealous of your 120g! 

gratz again bro... i have yet another thread to stalk muahahhaaa! 


- thefisherman


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

LetThereBeFish said:


> You could always give some plants away *cough...me *cough.... Oh wait I have no room either really. :biggrin:


lol i got you bro... i'm gonna put together a package for talon this weekend, pm me ur info 


- thefisherman


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

zack i got the official barclaya zachfolia bulb sprout of pure awesomeness 









zeldar ur right man everything is big in TX... crypt beast planted! 

02-29-12 The Leap Year FTS









- thefisherman


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

03-01-12 Progress

Good Morning FTS








Some noteable groupings...

Syngonanthus sp. 'Belem' - these guys seem like they're enjoying the gassed environment.. i didn't realize they could grow so tall so fast, might harvest the 2-3" tops and replant. problem is where?!








Tonina Fluvalitis "lotus blossom"- same for these guys... soft acidic high light/fert/co2 lovers...the base of these i thought were getting ratty... but then i notice they are sprouting new plantlets. again i may have to chop tops and replant. space is an issue.








Limno Aromatica - best desicion I made was to bring these guys to this side of the tank and not hidden in the back corner. i have full view of these beastly stems and again baby offshoots coming from the base! i love these plants (and they smell good too!)








crypt. parva - believe it or not but parva is probabbly top 3 if not my favorite crypt of all time lol. i love these little guys, granted it takes them a mere century to grow, i still think they're awesome little plants... and it seems they are in fact enjoying the gaseous co2 environment. i notice they are much more perky these days. you guys were totally right.. crazydaz per your suggestion i added the root caps 








on a misc. note here are some pics of my 30B's downstairs. i recently discussed (on knuggs fishroom thread) that my bare bottom tank is like a total jungle in need of maintenance. my workon this tank has been limited as i've had a recent fish fry hatch and afraid to harm the little guys. but as they are getting bigger (1/4" +/-) i may try to catch them into a bucket and try to setup the tank. i plan on using pure PFS substrate as it is meant to be a grow out tank only. root feeders will be individually potted in soil of course








the other 30B is my emersed setup... mostly potted crypts nothing fancy. it's taken a long while for these plants to adjust (most converted from submerged form) and several melts of course  but nonetheless i'm proud to share their progress 
















- thefisherman


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## GMYukonon24s (May 3, 2009)

Nice tanks and I like your emersed setup.


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## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

WOW! Nice Fisherman!!! The syngonanthus species LOVE CO2, but it does cause them to get leggy sometimes. Top and replant, but you are at a similar point that I go through....not enough space, and you hate yourself for throwing them out. You could try to RAOK some, but it gets hard to do that every week. You may want to increase your ferts a touch to keep everything colored up nicely and curb the leggy growth. See if that helps.

Limnophilia Aromatica is used as an herb for cooking, but you probably knew that...

Glad to hear that the root tabs/CO2 is helping with your Parva growth, man! It is a nice crypt! 

And, I second GM's comment above: I really like your emersed crypt set up!!! How hard is that to do? I've been thinking about trying something similar, but am afraid that with my wicked travel schedule things could go wrong pretty quickly. I'm also fearful that it might smell to high heaven and my wife would make me get rid of it. How do you fertilize it?


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

crazydaz said:


> WOW! Nice Fisherman!!! The syngonanthus species LOVE CO2, but it does cause them to get leggy sometimes. Top and replant, but you are at a similar point that I go through....not enough space, and you hate yourself for throwing them out. You could try to RAOK some, but it gets hard to do that every week. You may want to increase your ferts a touch to keep everything colored up nicely and curb the leggy growth. See if that helps.
> 
> Limnophilia Aromatica is used as an herb for cooking, but you probably knew that...
> 
> ...


thank you GMY, thanks crazy 

your point about increasing nutrients is well taken! i did not think of connecting their "leggyness" to a lack thereof until you pointed it out... but it totally makes sense! thank you 

i have been incrementally increasing ferts but my NO3 sticks to 0-5ppm! but tbh i've been afraid to go too muh on the ferts for fear of inducing an algae breakout or worse! 

tomorrow's friday so i don't fert anyway, i will 2X my fert dosage this coming tank maintenace and see i i can beef up those stems 

your right about the lack of space however, which is part of the reason i want to get my 30 breeder in order.

regardingthe crypt setup bro, its super easy and low maintenance... and ithink zach can concur leaving them alone is actually a good thing for emersed plants lol... i think your schedule will work out fine 

as for the smell, i have a glass top so you can't really smell anything... but when you open it you definately know something is growing in there lol... but i love the smell of thriving plants! if your wife can handle the 200g beast, i think emersed setup should be a walk in the park for her 

i think the great thing about the emersed setup is learning about each plants needs. i've had half the plants in there (mostly crypts) melt and the other half thrive... all in the same mixture of soil!

the trial and error of finding the right soil composition and mixture etc is just as challenging as balancing a high tech tank lol...and when you find the right conditions (or induce the right conditions in the soil) and your plant thrives its a great feeling. 

at the end of the day, i find that all of my emersed work (including my 5g dirt tank) has helped me understand whats gong on in my 20L better. not to mention it has given me insight into my plans for the dream tank.

and you know what the best part is bro? dirt is cheap!! 







- thefisherman


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## zachary908 (Feb 12, 2011)

thefisherman said:


> zach i have one thing to say to you man... buce buce buce gooo bucephalandra!
> 
> ok i lied i have another thing to say... i'm soo jealous of your 120g!
> 
> gratz again bro... i have yet another thread to stalk muahahhaaa!


Haha thanks, bro! Hopefully my supplies will come in the mail soon!



thefisherman said:


> zack i got the official barclaya zachfolia bulb sprout of pure awesomeness


Nice, it looks great! Glad to see it arrived okay! Get ready, those things are monsters!


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

03-02-12 Progress

good day fts








i found out we have elder duty all weekend... i'm always happy to spend time with granny and gramps but, i was looking forward to some QT time with my tanks (and my wife too of course!) lol

man i'm itching to get my 30B in order and scoop up all those little fry outta there. i have massive moss covered manzanita that i wanted to stand vertical as a backdrop across the backside of the tank... i wanted to get my sand substrate down, re-pot some of my plants...aww man! 

well there is a silver lining... granny and gramps live 5 minutes away from an LFS and Pet Warehouse! 


- thefisherman


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## LetThereBeFish (Dec 7, 2011)

Haha I just looked at the first page of the journal with the specs FOR THE FIRST TIME and I was like "Tank size.....Lighting.....Filtration.....FlorHOLY CHEESE!!! thats a lot of plants!!" And I knew you had cypts, but wow. :hihi:


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

LetThereBeFish said:


> Haha I just looked at the first page of the journal with the specs FOR THE FIRST TIME and I was like "Tank size.....Lighting.....Filtration.....FlorHOLY CHEESE!!! thats a lot of plants!!" And I knew you had cypts, but wow. :hihi:


lol ya i know... and now 4 months later my plants are only now starting to really take off. space is a major problem 

i really need to get that 30B downstairs organized and ready to go as a full blown grow out tank. right now its like a catch all for stuff i just can't throw out. its amazing how its sistaining itself with no
maintenance... especially the fry!


- thefisherman


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## Al Slick (Jan 22, 2012)

Hey there!

I'm pretty sure that I got one stem of your limno aromatica with your package, I guess I'll have to smell it to see what it really is! 

You have a lot of fish in that tank, I fell like you need a 40b haha


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

Al Slick said:


> Hey there!
> 
> I'm pretty sure that I got one stem of your limno aromatica with your package, I guess I'll have to smell it to see what it really is!
> 
> You have a lot of fish in that tank, I fell like you need a 40b haha


right on man! i know the plants didn't look their best when they arrives but believe me... that selection of specimens are tough as nails! and super weedy, you just have to give them a little TLC in order to cultivate new growth. i am confident that each stem will yield plenty of beautiful tops for you 

i may have posted this pic up top... but these l. aromaticas come from the same batch of base stems you have. i've been cultivating the tops since january. now each has become its own stem with plantlets at the base! as u can see they are at the top of the waterline, not sure if i will top and replant as i have no more space lol. i also don't want to chop the bottoms as they many plantlets shooting from them. i might treat them like my rotalas and just lose the tops...i don't have my grow out tank going yet so... lucky for my next RAOK lol








03-03-12 pre granny and gramp daycare FTS








it seems that there are distinct
plant groupings that are starting to take shape. next maintenance, hopefully tomorrow, i may resort the syno and tonina to form tighter groupings. as stated above i might have to give up the l. aromatica tops.








the left side of my tank is the high flow side. after a nice trim when all the plants are equal in height it looks good... but due to the accelerated stem growth the left side looks empty now. i may relocate L broad leaf and p yatabeanus, hopefully the current isn't to strong.








lastly after a painstaking dial up of the bps... i guess i spoke too soon regarding the burkett solenoid amd ideal valve... like with all things mechanical new... there has to be a breaking in period. te co2 setup i have has been working great so far this week. i want to thank maknwar for the build!










- thefisherman


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

didn't really have time to trim and replant the way i wanted to today but...here's a the end result fts


















- thefisherman


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## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

need to see a side by side comparison next week between pre- and post-CO2, Fish! What do you think so far? What's your assessment? Has it been worth moving to a pressurized CO2 system?


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

crazydaz said:


> need to see a side by side comparison next week between pre- and post-CO2, Fish! What do you think so far? What's your assessment? Has it been worth moving to a pressurized CO2 system?


i'm definately more confident with new plants going into my tank... i can tell the plants are loving the co2 environment.






























the most aggressive growth believe it or not are my lilies... my two tiger lilies and the barclaya bulb sprout zah sent me is growing at an amazng rate! 

i'm not sure what to do with my limno tops, if i should hack them or replant the tops. i think the way things are going in my tank an the close qairters everything is to each other, i might just have to lose the tops on most my stem plants. hopefully i'll get them to grow bushy and compact.

i started topping my syno belem... gonna try and see if i can get them to grow thick before i start RAOKing my cuttings lol

left side of my tank looks vacant still... primarily because of that strong current flow in my tank. thinking of aponogeton ulvaceus or lace for the backside of my tank as i know they like soft fast flowing water. idk we'll see i'm pretty broke right now lol


- thefisherman


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## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

I hear you on those lillies, man! They go crazy in high light/high CO2, and it is difficult to keep up with the trimming. I'm removing at least 4-5 leaves per week. If you had the space, I would suggest that you let it send of a few floating leaves and let it flower. I've done that before. A few days after the flower opens, cut it, and it should slow it's growing down after a while. On the plus side, you could move that to the "open" area you've been "whining" about for the past two-three weeks!  JK!

My Barclaya loves my tank, and it should do well in yours! (Hint: it loves root tabs!)

Always top and replant; topping a plant can be done from time to time, but you are usually left with an unattractive stem until a new sprout can be re-formed and grow out. I don't recommend it, but it is a bit more messy and time consuming to do. I hate pulling roots out of the substrate and having a cloud of dust in my tank for a few hours.

Cutting the top off can encourage lateral, bushy growth though....you may have to experiment with this on a plant to plant basis. However, if you let a plant hit the surface, it will often start send out side shoots from it's base as well, which is a great way to multiply stems. If you let the syno's gain in height, they should send out more side shoots from the base. After those gain some height, I would top the main stem and replant, and separate the side shoots and replant those.


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

crazydaz said:


> I hear you on those lillies, man! They go crazy in high light/high CO2, and it is difficult to keep up with the trimming. I'm removing at least 4-5 leaves per week. If you had the space, I would suggest that you let it send of a few floating leaves and let it flower. I've done that before. A few days after the flower opens, cut it, and it should slow it's growing down after a while. On the plus side, you could move that to the "open" area you've been "whining" about for the past two-three weeks!  JK!
> 
> My Barclaya loves my tank, and it should do well in yours! (Hint: it loves root tabs!)
> 
> ...


beotch and stitch baby! yea i am whining about that blank spot rear left but what i failed to mention was...







my zexy crypt nurii chillin back there yo!! :O

ya she's been hiding back there for a bit. i figured It was the only space appropriate for this plant in the fast flowing low corner of my tank. the problem is its compact and short. this results in the appearance of a vacant backdrop... and anything long and stemmy i try to plant back there just gets blown away. don't worry i have a plan. hopefully the plant i am thinking of [cough] aponogeton ulvaceaus [cough] will still be for sale this weekend 

top and replant bro i know!... problem is when i top, i got no more space to replant  its a real problem man, i gotta figure this out. i don't want to toss the tops or clippings in my 30B cuz i know these particular high demand stems will suffer coming from a high tech environment. idk we'll see, maybe i can get my other co2 setup going for the 30B.... oh wait i need a diffuser! any suggestions? :O

regarding my lilies.. i
might cram one of those maniac bulbs into a cavity in my driftwood lol... i'm sure it won't mind 

we'll see wha happens 

random crypt of the day











- thefisherman


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

progress fts


- thefisherman


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## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

Brah....I never would consider anything else for CO2 other than a needle wheel pump. I will never use anything else ever again. And yes, you need another CO2 set up, if anything, just to anger the wife. It's good to keep them on their toes! ;D Just don't tell my wife that!

YOU NEED BIGGER PICTURES!!!!!! Cannot "see" the progress....only green in the tank, black tank outline, and white light.  MOAR pictures, please!


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

crazydaz said:


> YOU NEED BIGGER PICTURES!!!!!! Cannot "see" the progress....only green in the tank, black tank outline, and white light.  MOAR pictures, please!


I saw this earlier when I was on my laptop in a recording session and wanted to say the same thing. Bigger pictures man.


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

lol u guys are crazy.... you're right i need bigger pictures, but for some reason the site has been telling me i've reached my file size limit or quota or something 

i've been trying to upload the biggest image sizes for the past week now. i'll take a bunch of pics this morning and see what i can do 

ps... oh yes mu wife is going away this april... and oh yes i will be visiting the 125g tank for sale at pet warehouse :O 


- thefisherman


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

so i tried to upload better pics and i got the exceed quota msg again  gah! do i have to upgrade mu tpt membership or something? or maybe i need to use a 3rd party image hosting service... idk

btw.. (i know this is a noob question but...) whats a needle wheel pump?! :O is that a powerhead? 


- thefisherman


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## frrok (May 22, 2011)

thefisherman said:


> so i tried to upload better pics and i got the exceed quota msg again  gah! do i have to upgrade mu tpt membership or something? or maybe i need to use a 3rd party image hosting service... idk
> 
> btw.. (i know this is a noob question but...) whats a needle wheel pump?! :O is that a powerhead?
> 
> ...


Try flickr


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## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

Oh Fish! You're KILLIN' ME!!  Just kidding, Bro.....

You have to use a third party...flickr, shutterfly, photobucket, that type of thing. I like photobucket the best, but anything will do. Once you upload your pics to that site, it will give you an address which usually looks like "[IMG/www.photobucket.com/..........IMG]"; on photobucket there are four options for these image links, and it is the "bottom" selection that I use.....I don't think the top three selections work for posting pics here. It takes a little finagling, but if I can get it to work, so should you. After selecting the "right" image link to use, you just highlight it, and copy and paste it here in a new post (or you can Edit an old post and add the picture too). You can use any size (pixel by pixel), but I would use the default selection of 800x600 for starters. You can go "bigger," but then people here start screaming that it "takes too long to load your pictures," and so on.

A needle wheel pump is NOT a powerhead, though some powerheads do have needle wheels in them. What I talking about is a pump with a needle wheel mechanism inside the actual pump that "chops up" the CO2 gas into extremely fine bubbles, and is usually attached to a spray bar in the fish tank that pumps out water/fine bubbles of CO2 intermixed. :lol: This is the needle wheel itself:
http://images.search.yahoo.com/imag...&sigi=15k2gbho7&sigb=11rusi38j&fr=ytff1-yff80

This is the pump that it goes into:
http://images.search.yahoo.com/imag...&sigi=15a4aoj13&sigb=11rusi38j&fr=ytff1-yff80

In the last pic, you can see the tubing attached; this is where the CO2 would go into. Then, it is "sucked" into the needle wheel/pump housing and pump out again. It's missing the tubing that would bring in aquarium water into and out of the actual pump, so it may be a little difficult to visualize. The tubing that brings water into the pump would connect to the same side as the CO2 tubing; the tubing that pumps water out would be on the other side where you see the output opening (to left of the "G300" sticker).

In my opinion, it works better than diffusors or reactors....some might argue with me about it.

Anyhow, so now you know!


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

ya i know i'm a noob  well check this out and let me know if this works

http://pbckt.com/pJ.NE996K


- thefisherman


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

I think I just figured it out crazydaz... woohoo!


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## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

'Atta Boy, 'atta Boy!!!  

WELCOME TO THE WORLD OF PLANTED TANK FORUMS; YOU HAVE NOW BECOME JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE!!! :lol:

Well done! I can see that!


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

hey crazy how come my drop checker is reading insufficient?! i've been gassing 3bps for 10hrs/day... this is the 3rd day its happened. :O

does this mean my plants are consuming all the co2? should i increase my bps?


- thefisherman


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## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

I would increase the flow first to see. Likely, the flow from the filter isn't fast enough and not all the CO2 is making it "around" the tank. 3 bps should be MORE than enough for your 20 gallon.

When are you checking it? In the morning after all the CO2 has been turned off for 14 hours? Or are you checking it late in the day? Are you seeing pearling or increase in O2 production from your plants?


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

crazydaz said:


> I would increase the flow first to see. Likely, the flow from the filter isn't fast enough and not all the CO2 is making it "around" the tank. 3 bps should be MORE than enough for your 20 gallon.
> 
> When are you checking it? In the morning after all the CO2 has been turned off for 14 hours? Or are you checking it late in the day? Are you seeing pearling or increase in O2 production from your plants?


i'm checking when i get home.. the flow is actually quite strong which is why i've been having difficulty placing plants at the rear left corner of my tank. i haven't noticed pearling lately (only during the first week)... i don't hear any hissing or anything but fear i may be leaking co2! i will use a liquid leak detector when i get home this evening. 

this kinda sux cuz i've been harping about investing in a long term co2 setup that would last forever etc... and yet i can't even get mine to work with all the troubleshooting i had to do less than 3 weeks in! 


- thefisherman


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## zachary908 (Feb 12, 2011)

Looking good, dude.

How's that barclaya doing?


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

zachary908 said:


> Looking good, dude.
> 
> How's that barclaya doing?


thanks man... aside from my co2 mystery, i'm happy with the progress of my plant and fish children lol

your barclaya is a total beast man.. it has like 4-5 fronds already, a deep blood red 

i'll throw a pic up tonight 


- thefisherman


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## zachary908 (Feb 12, 2011)

thefisherman said:


> your barclaya is a total beast man.. it has like 4-5 fronds already, a deep blood red
> 
> i'll throw a pic up tonight


Awesome, glad to hear it's doing well! When they are happy they grow super fast. And the color is fantastic. It will even keep that color in a low tech tank.


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

i confirmed i have a leak from the needle valve to the bubble counter 

i am not a happy camper ...









- thefisherman


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

Good Morning FTS 03-10-12










gotta run to a client meeting this morning, hopefully i'll be able to fix this co2 thing today.


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## LetThereBeFish (Dec 7, 2011)

Looking adequate as usual.  jk! Still looking good! :icon_cool For some reason, every time I see your tank, it looks like a 40b, not a 20 long. It just seems bigger... I must be going crazy!! lol :icon_eek:


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## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

Well, it's no wonder you haven't seen an increase in growth and some legginess in your tonina species. Get that CO2 into the water!!! 

That stinks, pal....but it should be an easy fix, right?


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

LetThereBeFish said:


> Looking adequate as usual.  jk! Still looking good! :icon_cool For some reason, every time I see your tank, it looks like a 40b, not a 20 long. It just seems bigger... I must be going crazy!! lol :icon_eek:


thanks LTBF.. looks can be deceiving  i've been soo swamped with work and totally broke recently that i don;t have the time or resources to tend the tanks i DO have downstairs. albiet they are only grow out tanks, it would be nice to semi-scape it so it looks good. i think the fry that i had are actually rainbowfish, they are about 1/4"-1/2" now with a little red in them. I can't wait to see them grow up  



crazydaz said:


> Well, it's no wonder you haven't seen an increase in growth and some legginess in your tonina species. Get that CO2 into the water!!!
> 
> That stinks, pal....but it should be an easy fix, right?


i hear ya bro... i gotta be honest... i'm very disappointed in my new co2 build. the leak is most likely an easy fix but...i invested too much $$$ to have this many problems from the get go. i don't even want to get into what i've done my self to fix it and i'm not about to play a violin lol. (don't even say it crazy! i know what you're thinking!!)  bottom line is i swapped out my brand spanking new matheson setup for the used setup i got from a pal... ye old faithful:










nonetheless i always like to focus on the positive things, if anything this experience gave me a crash course on co2 builds, components and their pros and cons; i've learned a great deal.

for one burkett solenoids do run super hot, so hot i burnt myself when i picked up my leaky regulator to swap it out  not a big deal it basically works well but i can't imagine it lasting very long for being that hot over time. clippard solenoids are the way to go. the old (3.5 yrs old) one that i got looks used but operates smoothly and closes tightly without a hitch. best thing is its only warm to the touch after 10-11 hrs of being on.

the other is swagelok... totally pro super precise needle valve. ideal with a venier handle is good, but swagelok is on another level of precision and its stainless. 

i got a 20lb steel tank that seems unsightly but it will probably be september before i think about refilling it! 

all said and done my brutha... post co2 fix FTS


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

i had a manzi twig in my 40B with globs of flame moss stuck to it and thought, i wonder if i can use that to break the strong current at the back 0f my tank...:O

a revelation for me no less  ....lo and behold, post maintenance FTS 03-11-12

looking from the right








looking from the left


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

Good morning FTS 03-12-12


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## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

I like the trim.....just need to get that CO2 kickin'! Any additional problems with it, or is your Frankenstein regulator working well? 

I promise that it will be worth it!! You will love the end results, even if it means you have to trim your plants twice per week.

BTW...why aren't your reds popping? Aside from the lilly, I see some faint pinks in there....it's strange to me because you dose iron, and have plenty of lighting...are you still only using one bulb? Have you tried "bursting" it with two bulbs for a few hours every day yet?


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

crazydaz said:


> I like the trim.....just need to get that CO2 kickin'! Any additional problems with it, or is your Frankenstein regulator working well?
> 
> I promise that it will be worth it!! You will love the end results, even if it means you have to trim your plants twice per week.
> 
> BTW...why aren't your reds popping? Aside from the lilly, I see some faint pinks in there....it's strange to me because you dose iron, and have plenty of lighting...are you still only using one bulb? Have you tried "bursting" it with two bulbs for a few hours every day yet?


thanks bro  ya man i'm only using one bulb... i'm totally afraid to increase my trace elements cuz i think i killed my otto in the other tank that way...and induced some kind of chemical burn to my plants dry dosing into the nano. i basically had a clump of Dry fert that didn't dissolve and sat on my lagendara leaf. i came home and that particular leaf melted and my otto was face down in a ditch! 

i know the metals are chelated, but i've read that with high light they can unwantedly release into the water column, possibly cause a toxicity or induce algae or something crappy i'm totally new to and not aware of lol

"bursting" both lamps would be cool but the only way to do it for me is manually. its a one plug fixture that unless i modify the fixture i won't be able to independently switch them with a timer 

the other crazy thing i noticed is my tonina looks pissed... some sections seem stunted or turned ratty especially where my lily leaf touches them... i don't wanna go walstad or anything screaming allelopathy but... i think they don't like being too bunched together :O

hmmm... 


- thefisherman


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

so i came home late tonight and to my surprise and joy.. a little pearling 








good night fts, with the co2 off


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Pearling is always fun. I really like the angle of the last pic. The Parva seems to be filling in.


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

talontsiawd said:


> Pearling is always fun. I really like the angle of the last pic. The Parva seems to be filling in.


thanks talon.. i came home to this tonight. i guess i'm starting to see the effects of successful co2 levels


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

thefisherman said:


> thanks talon.. i came home to this tonight. i guess i'm starting to see the effects of successful co2 levels


Nice. I just got my CO2 issues figured out my tank is pearling like no other now. Feel stupid for not realizing a few things, even after 5 years of this. 

Now your tank will start to explode. The Rotola Indica you sent me can grow over an inch (maybe up to two) in a day, if it's close to the top. I imagine your 20L will grow even faster since your light is probably much closer to the substrate.


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## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

Dude. Are you alive? You haven't posted any updates in a few days.....seeing any good progress yet with the plant growth or coloration?? Any better pearling rates?


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

crazydaz said:


> Dude. Are you alive? You haven't posted any updates in a few days.....seeing any good progress yet with the plant growth or coloration?? Any better pearling rates?


dam bro i've been busting my arse at work  i'm just getting home now we just submitted our competition entry...the past 2 weeks have been rough. the good thing is i'm a little loaded as we celebrated all our hard work lol. 

not that i want things to slow down (finally economy is picking up) but hopefully things will ease up next week.

well i took one tiger lotus out as its leaves got humungus and the fish ripped it off of the bulb... the rotalas are pearling like crazy since i fixed the co2 leakage and the crypts seem perky and more robust...

a few improvemed crypts are:

-c affinis brown
-c affinis green/red
-c griffithi
-c nurii
-c cordata thailand
-c blassi

and of course last but not least my crypt parva

gonna do a trim this week, i know talon's been waiting for his plants for sime time now :O i promise i'll make it worth the wait 







- thefisherman


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## Marconis (Nov 8, 2010)

Still making us Queens residents proud.


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

Marconis said:


> Still making us Queens residents proud.


thanks bro...but i'm not sure what i did  hit me up if u want some trimmings, probably gonna do the 20L tomorrow

morning FTS


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## Marconis (Nov 8, 2010)

I'm all stocked up at the moment, but will definitely hit you up in the future if you need anything; I appreciate it. I barely trim anything, so my offer in return would have zero substance.


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

Marconis said:


> I'm all stocked up at the moment, but will definitely hit you up in the future if you need anything; I appreciate it. I barely trim anything, so my offer in return would have zero substance.


i don't expect anything in return bro  i enjoy sharing my plants with people and watchn them flourish in their tanks...its much better than the alternative. besides queens reprezent yo! :O


- thefisherman


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

i'm supposed to do maintenance today but... i'm too lazy and i haven't spent time with my wife (cuz of work) in the past 2 1/2 weeks... plus its gorgeous outside so...

tanks are getting topped off and the plants get a chance to
get a little wild for now lol


- thefisherman


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

water topped off...lazy dayz FTS


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## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

Looks Great, Fish!!! The crowns of your "tonina" belem look really full and seem like they are broadening and growing much more nicely now! That lotus looks amazing!!

Tank also appears more colorful too! And no worries on the maintenance break. Sometimes, the best thing that you can do is to simply leave things alone for a little while, and just let them grow.


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

crazydaz said:


> Looks Great, Fish!!! The crowns of your "tonina" belem look really full and seem like they are broadening and growing much more nicely now! That lotus looks amazing!!
> 
> Tank also appears more colorful too! And no worries on the maintenance break. Sometimes, the best thing that you can do is to simply leave things alone for a little while, and just let them grow.


Tuesday's FTS









your words of encouragement are always well received sir... thank you.  BUT my tank looks like total crap today man! i'll post pics in the AM my plants are uprooted and floating atm.  i think my rotalas have to be thinned out or relocated or removed. they take up a lot of space when they grow out and they are just hogs. they managed to suffocate my pogostemons, ludwigia hybrid, h. pinatfidia and erio type 3 is toast, and my other stems are naked stalks :icon_sad:. i think its a combination of their placement, mutant growth rate and fast flow of the water. the rotalas seem to be out competing the other plants for nutrients and light.

plus my tonina fluvalitis are unhappy. the base stems are looking ratty and the stalks seem really lanky, i don't get it. oddly enough my elogeria fluctuans is happy as a clam and producing plenty of offshoots. after all this... i believe its time to edit and start to remove or limit the number of species in the tank... my 20L is just too small and shallow...i need a custom 200g square!!!


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

so i just ID'd the "needle leaf" stems i've been trying to propogate for talon are Ludwigia inclinata var. verticillata 'Pantanal'... too bad they are the naked stalks (as a casualty of getting choked out by my rotalas) i am referring to in my previous post 

i have three half-alive tops (1"-2") that i have uprooted and repositioned. hope they don't crap out on mee! 



- thefisherman


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## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

Growing pains: we all have to learn them! Rotalas can choke other plants out, but they usually aren't too invasive as long as you trim them, and occasionally top and replant them. In fact, under high light like mine, topping will lead to more manageable, more compact growth with side shoots....so you could turning both those lights on to see if you can get them to creep instead. The point is: I don't think that you need to get rid of species, you just need to keep you rotala in check. SHOW IT WHOSE BOSS, BRO!

You L. Cuba will be fine, but it takes a while for it to grow vertical from such a small stem. Keep it in the light!


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

crazydaz said:


> Growing pains: we all have to learn them! Rotalas can choke other plants out, but they usually aren't too invasive as long as you trim them, and occasionally top and replant them. In fact, under high light like mine, topping will lead to more manageable, more compact growth with side shoots....so you could turning both those lights on to see if you can get them to creep instead. The point is: I don't think that you need to get rid of species, you just need to keep you rotala in check. SHOW IT WHOSE BOSS, BRO!
> 
> You L. Cuba will be fine, but it takes a while for it to grow vertical from such a small stem. Keep it in the light!


dam dude my rotalas are a real PITA! i was able to take some pics of the mayhem that these weeds caused in my tank... i basically had to uproot and separate the other sp. away from the rotalas. my ludwigia arcuataXrepens is lost, completely entangled with the rotalas; my erio type 3 looks like a piece of bacon at this point... i have a lot to think about regarding my 20L this weekend... i may uproot all the bunches, float plants and shift into contemplation mode for a while before i rescape.

i have issues with getting light to the base of my needy stems. not just because of my rotalas but my fixture is limited in that (even with both light on) i noticed a significant falloff of light at the edges... which is a real problem; maybe not for my crypts but for most of my stem plants. they are mostly red, super needy light/co2 hogs. thats probably why my belem is thriving, they are in the sweet spot in terms of light intensity.

here some pics... mayhem FTS








the rotalas are a twisted mess right now. probably 20" long untwined. i have some stems (maybe even a fish!) that are lost in this twisted mass of destruction








the right side of my tank is like plant triage... i had to pull out my bunch stems that were either choked out or severely shaded by my rotals


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## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

No worries!  You will simply need to get better lighting, or arrange your plants in a "triangle" type of layout with the apex (tallest) being toward the center of the lighting for your high-light loving plants and your sides only used for low-light loving plants like your crypts, lotus, and such. You just can't let those rotalas grow wild, or any of your fast growing stems for that matter. As you know now, they will intertwine with everything else, shade it out, and make it look leggy, or kill it.

Try what I do with my Rotala 'Colorata' in my thread...you should be able to maintain and shape it as long as it is getting CO2 and ferts (which it is). Trim it once a week, and pretty much all the rotalas should be able to handle that. You will need to "top" and replants every few months, but the nice thing about rotalas is that they are a cheap plant to experiment with, easy to grow,and most are pretty tough. I love mine!!  

LEAVE THE PARVA ALONE!!!!!!


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

crazydaz said:


> No worries!  You will simply need to get better lighting, or arrange your plants in a "triangle" type of layout with the apex (tallest) being toward the center of the lighting for your high-light loving plants and your sides only used for low-light loving plants like your crypts, lotus, and such. You just can't let those rotalas grow wild, or any of your fast growing stems for that matter. As you know now, they will intertwine with everything else, shade it out, and make it look leggy, or kill it.
> 
> Try what I do with my Rotala 'Colorata' in my thread...you should be able to maintain and shape it as long as it is getting CO2 and ferts (which it is). Trim it once a week, and pretty much all the rotalas should be able to handle that. You will need to "top" and replants every few months, but the nice thing about rotalas is that they are a cheap plant to experiment with, easy to grow,and most are pretty tough. I love mine!!
> 
> LEAVE THE PARVA ALONE!!!!!!


oh i know better than to disturb the parva... it only took me 6 months to wake them up lol. i'm referring to uprooting my bunched stems only. i decided to RAOK the rotala tops and seriously contemplating wether or not I keep the evil stump or position it somewhere else. i still have the strong flow problem where in my outflow pipe is gushing that backside of my tank making it impossible to plant tall lanky bunches. 

my option is to reduce the flow using the ball valve or diffuse the water by tie-wrapping filter media around the outflow idk yet. maybe i have to change the position of the outflow all together 

the other alternative is what i've been contemplating for a while... EDIT.

i know i don't want to either but... ever since i threw the co2 in there the game totally changed. the plants are growing more rapidly yes but they are also more light/nutrient demanding. the base of my stems become ratty as not enough light reaches the bottom due to over crowding.

again i feel the speed of the flow in my tank isn't helping. i've read some plants have a harder time from extracting nutrients from fast water. i tested this out with one of my erio types where i placed one near the outflow and the other just floating on the adjacent side. the plant next to the fast flow turned brown. 

conversely the plants that are thriving the best are my slow growing rooted plants.  most if not all of my crypts are thriving and my bulbs are doing very well. 

right now, literally since this morning i have been staring at my tank thinking about how to edit species of stem plants. my tank looks like a war zone right now but i am leaning towards the economic factor in making decisions.. i have plenty of cheap stems and very expensive ones (i realized).. i may have to focus on cultivating the rare difficult stems first and throw the weeds in the grow out tank or i might just leave all of them bunched and floating till i figure things out.

OR i setup a new 100g and ALL my plants can be happy lol. 

the warzone


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

the warzone 03-28-12









of course after I finally ID'd my pantanal, my stems are pissed at me and they look like they are about to wither away!  right now i have them bunched in the center of my tank, but they don't look too happy. maybe i have to take the lead off and pluck them into the dirt. idk.

i am making the move to remove some of the stem species in my tank; substituting them with the slow growing crypts... mostly on the left side of my tank. in order to do so, i decided to remove the center piece of driftwood that happens to be growing a nice coat of flame moss  but i have no choice, i need the real estate :/

i figure the rooted plants will fair better on that side as the current is strong and lanky stems just cause havok when they grow out, shade and get twisted... i've been seduced by the moehlmanni and possibly some other big leafy types.

we shall see i guess... RAOK soon


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

maintenance 04-01-12 April Fools maiontenance

so after my light fixture fell into my tank.. i became very thankful that i got an "aquatic fixture" that happened to have a splash cover and sealed bulbs... wow i never thought THAt would happen... 

yes it was an exciting day. tank maintenance on all my tanks and the removal of the center piece of driftwood that is not located in my pea puffer nano. i planted some great specimens of blassi and moehlmanni that i hope will take to the new environment... i think they are gorgeous plants and so happy to have them in there. with the removal of the DW i was able to expand my sunoganthus belem farm and moved my tonina fluvalitis towards the center left of my tank.. i notice they do not like ot be crowded and demand center stage. hopefully they do well...panantal is down to three tops, base stems melted and were discarded. i realized that these like to be planted in substrate hopefully they bounce back from the dead.

at the end of the day i would like to welcome the new additions to my tank:
- black neon tetra crew (5); these guys are beautiful as much as they are gangsta! love em.
- khuli loache (2); awesome freaky looking guys, totally at home in a heavily planted situation... now if i can only find them!
- juvie bristle nose pleco.. at $2.75... i could not resist... of course i have no idea where he is as he is blended in somewhere probably by the filter intake... i'm sure when he gets big i wil have to move him to my new 75 tank my friend is giving to me.. doh! 

tank shot right








tank shot left


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

Good Morning FTS 04-02-12










idk why my plants look soo yellow.. iron deficiency perhaps? :O


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## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

Could be many reasons, but I would up my dosing a bit on the iron and potassium and see how that helps at all. Or, they just look yellow in the pic because they are right dead center under the lighting. ;D

Looks good to me. The growth seems to be a little more full and compact. Or, you do a good job trimming! Either way, it looks great!


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## Marconis (Nov 8, 2010)

thefisherman said:


> Good Morning FTS 04-02-12
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nitrate? I've just started dosing KNO3 due to yellowing of plants and having 0 nitrate.


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

thanks for the tips guys... been doing the grind at work again this week, sorry i haven't been able to reply. the only time i'm able to check out the forum is on tapatalk on my way to work and i can't update my journal from there lol. 

i planted some awesome plants i got from on Monday... i'm honored to have his crypts in my tank. I just hope i can do them justice. thank you nick!

zach your barclaya zachfolia is a beast! and has multiple blood red fronds... you can catch a glimpse of it in the pic above... i have since moved it to the back center of my tank and can't wait for this thing to explode out of the green!  thank you zach!

good night FTS 04-04-12









on another note, i was tending to my emersed setup on monday as well.... thought i'd post some pics of the plants' progress. shoutout to mah man gordonrichards... as most of these crypts are his! 


























the only way i can grow a hygro... emersed! lol









that yellow guys on the bottom left is not a result of a nutrient deficiency... its a result of a hitchhiking sunset hygro :O


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

its been a while... super busy overworked underpaid gaah!! sorry for playing the violin lol. well at least i have my tanks. although i haven't had time to do my weekly w/c in 2 weeks now.. i moved stuff around and topped off the tank.

progress fts 04/25/12










on a side note, i am continuing EI dosing 3X a week with rest days in between without scheduled waterchanges, jus top offs. my GH is 6-8 and my KH is less than 1. As a result of my co2 my and lack of buffering my pH may be swinging 6.0-6.6 in an extreme case. i am sure this is most apparent during waterchanges since my tap pH is 7. 

i fear this is not good for the fisheys lol. as i have noticed my cory hasboras swimming weird and sudden lack of activity in the tank  i feel like i need to add some buffering to my water to prevent sudden swings in pH. i will try baking soda in small increments till i get a KH of at least 2-3.


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## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

Love the immersed tank Bro!  That's some awesome looking stuff!

Speaking for myself, I don't believe in buffering....either the fish live or they don't. They should be able to tolerate those conditions, but if you go back to changing the water on occasion, it may allow them a little time to adjust to less frequent water changes. Considering catfish are genetically able to swim around in all God-awful, low pH, poorly oxygenated, murky filthy conditions, the key seems to be conditioning them slowly to get used to those types of conditions. You may be going a bit fast. That's how I did it.....I gave up buffers over a decade ago because it never really helped me in the long run and too difficult to manage on a consistent basis.

Tank looks good....could use some Ludwigia sp. 'Red' though.


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

Hello to all my PT friends... its been a while, super busy to say the least. But thankful the economy seems to be lifting up finally.

My 20L is still going. Had an incident with the kids (nieces/nephews) this past June when they decided to "go fishing" in my tank lol. Lost a few plants and was upset for little bit. Nonetheless, decided to edit out the weedy stems and for the most part its mostly crypts. He newest addition is some star repens i planted from my emersed trimmings. 

here's an update FTS, cheers!










- thefisherman


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## oliver77 (Oct 22, 2012)

Oh man!! Such incidents really tear my heart out. Your tank looks real nice before that. I like it a lot. Looks really really natural and peaceful to look at. hope things will grow back. I really like the crypts. Hard to find at my lfs. there are some, but they aren't for sale.


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

oliver77 said:


> Oh man!! Such incidents really tear my heart out. Your tank looks real nice before that. I like it a lot. Looks really really natural and peaceful to look at. hope things will grow back. I really like the crypts. Hard to find at my lfs. there are some, but they aren't for sale.


thanks O. i lost some fragile needy stems namely my tonina fluvalitis "lotus" and my L. pantanal which is a real shame as they were so beautiful. dreadfully difficult to grow (for me) no less. after the kids shredded my plants (thankfully not uprooting my crypts) i saw it as a sign to take a break from super needy and fast growing stem plants... its a lot of gardening for a 20L. 

nowadays i like the slow pace of my crypts and ever since i cleared my tank, i am starting to discover tiny plantlets and offshoots of crypts i thought melted a long time ago lol. crypts are really amazing plants.

its a shame they are not readily available in your parts, where are you from?


- thefisherman


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

still goin FTS 11-13-12


- thefisherman


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

11-15-12 FTS
Check out the black areas on my foregroud. I was thinking of giving the ole parva carpet another shot. I used to have a nice one going but it crashed back in June. What do you guys think? :O


- thefisherman


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## SloMo.00. (Nov 14, 2012)

This tank looks great. Really like the Crypts. I have the Brown and Green variety for my Cube tank that's starting next month. Pardon me asking. Is that Staurogyne for the carpet in the front?


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

i wouldnt go with a parva carpet. too tall for a 20l, IMO. maybe moss? or m. minuta.


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

@[email protected] said:


> i wouldnt go with a parva carpet. too tall for a 20l, IMO. maybe moss? or m. minuta.


thanks for the input marko!

i know i'm about to sound like a noob but... ou think i can get moss to crawl on my substrate? also i have flame moss in other tanks and i fail at keeping it clean 

also, u think c parva is too tall? my old parva got long maybe an inch and a half but it was always spread low.



SloMo.00. said:


> This tank looks great. Really like the Crypts. I have the Brown and Green variety for my Cube tank that's starting next month. Pardon me asking. Is that Staurogyne for the carpet in the front?


thanks for the kind words slomo always encouraging  

yes its star repens in the foreground, its still getting used to being submersed, i have a little lawn growing in an emersed setup, these were its trimmings



- thefisherman


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

you can get it to crawl on the substrate, but any disturbance will peel it off with the first layer of substrate. i would get some flat thin rocks (slate works great) and attach it to that and lay them ontop of the area you want carpeted, or use stainless steel mesh squares. both are popular and both worked fine for me. however, the rock tieing seems to make a carpet faster (as the moss doesnt need to grow out through the mesh, just grow a touch to cover the string).


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

Weekly wc FTS 11-19-12








replanted my blyxa, but i'm sure i'll wake up tomorrow and see it floating again 
i can't get this thing to root for the life of me

mowed some of the star repens down, i thought they were just gonna melt away as they were grown emersed... but it looks like a few of the plants like where they are sitting and took root. i was originally consdering trying a parva carpet again but, if the star repens comtinues to grow well... i might have my hands full lol


- thefisherman


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

FTS 11-29-12








it's been a full year now and although the tank has endured many changes (including kids "fishing")... i continue to learn from "the workbench"

A couple shots of the community (sorry for the iphone blurr)


























- thefisherman


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

about to do some maintenance... contemplating retiring this journal as my tank has changed from a weedy free for all to a slow and steady old
man growth tank  


- thefisherman


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

thefisherman said:


> about to do some maintenance... contemplating retiring this journal as my tank has changed from a weedy free for all to a slow and steady old
> man growth tank
> 
> 
> - thefisherman


Sorry I haven't chimed in. I really like your tank. I think it looks more "sophisticated" now with a foreground and mid ground. I think if you develop a background group or plants you are set. Looks great my dude.


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

thanks matt  no need to apologize man... i don't mind a low key thread lol 

it only took me 12 months to figure out how certain plants grow and what conditions they prefer... now i feel more confident in trying actually scale my tank. my biggest challenge now is to scape around my crypts that seem to have chosen their spots in my tank lol

as for the background plants I totally agree and share the same intent. i got a beautiful hybrid crypt from gordon that i planted recently back there. i hope it wakes up and tuns into a beast, which should fill that space. believe it or not i have several crypts back there already one that just got huge (c. blassi) and too tall as the leaves are all at the surface of my tank and a c. moehlmanni that is looking healthy but still needs to get fuller. 

i was able to get my hands on some
L pantanal i hope will flourish. i hope my crypts flourish back there and create a nice green backdrop for them to pop.

as for the foreground, i really didn't think i could get those star repens to take root from those emersed cuttings. last attempt was a failure as i didn't have co2 yet and they mostly melted. my other foreground plant is limno mini i plugged in there a couple weeks ago. i only planted 3 stems (from emersed cuttings) and they seem to have taken a liking to the tank as well. again probabbly the co2 as they shriveled up last attempt during exel only. 

my biggest concern right now is some
BBA and an unidentified green slime, very little on the substrate. it seems its under control however as i have been rigorous with co2, hand removal and water changes

i feel its been a great learning experience for me as i've practiaclly tried almost every kind of available stem and rooter crammed into my little 20L... truly my beloved workbench.


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## marioman72 (Jan 22, 2010)

tanks looking good!, i like the s. repens in the forground, once that preads out it will look realy lush. I too have had many a plant in my 20L and through the good and the bad learned what works and what dosnt haha. its always a learning experience when trying new things! but cool tank ive recently thought about getting some rams for my 20 but not sure if i want to add any more fish to the giant school of harlequin rasboras i have. nice work!


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

marioman72 said:


> tanks looking good!, i like the s. repens in the forground, once that preads out it will look realy lush. I too have had many a plant in my 20L and through the good and the bad learned what works and what dosnt haha. its always a learning experience when trying new things! but cool tank ive recently thought about getting some rams for my 20 but not sure if i want to add any more fish to the giant school of harlequin rasboras i have. nice work!


it means a lot coming from you marioman...i love the clarity you have in your tank, its has a simple palette but yet its soo full of texture and contrast. the DW the Flora and those rasboras work so well together.. your 20L puts mine to shame! lol. 

ps. my L pantanal is NOT a happy camper right now... i have some top growth but the stem base looks like its melting


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## marioman72 (Jan 22, 2010)

thefisherman said:


> it means a lot coming from you marioman...i love the clarity you have in your tank, its has a simple palette but yet its soo full of texture and contrast. the DW the Flora and those rasboras work so well together.. your 20L puts mine to shame! lol.
> 
> ps. my L pantanal is NOT a happy camper right now... i have some top growth but the stem base looks like its melting


thanks! its slowly coming together to what i want its taken a long time but as with all scapes, it takes time for everything to fill in and become fully grown. im hoping with in the next few weeks or so the stem plants will bush how im hoping. 

as for the L. pantanal, thats always the worst had it happen to some of my stems a while back then i got on a reg fert dosing schedule. do u dose any ferts?


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

ya i dose modified EI schedule macros and trace. right now i have only one bulb (T5HO) running. not sure if should turn on the other one as my super slow growth crypts don't like uber light and may have caused BBA in my tank.

dilema dilema :O


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## marioman72 (Jan 22, 2010)

that is quite the dilemma :/


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## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

You probably don't need two bulbs on, unless you want to keep you Staurogyne really short, or unless the Pantanal isn't popping. You could probably do a three hour burst without too much problem. The crypts don't mind, and it might help to get those nice colors that you would like!

Tank looks good, Ryan! Glad to see this thread up and running again!


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

Thanks for the kudos Don/Mario, its definately uplifting since I idolize both your tanks! 

I'm in agreement with you Don about the light. I am totally paranoid about blasting the tank with light as I've developed greenspot algae on glass and some BBA on the slow poke crypt leaves. 

I'm not convinced either that lighting is the limiting factor....because the star repens doesn't look too lanky, rather compact. I would take this as a sign there is ample lighting at the substrate.

What I DO notice is that the base of each stem is suffering and most likely will melt  the tops have promising growth however...

i'm thinkimg the crypts and star repens are unaffected as they seem to be rooted well in the substrate (that is nutrient rich) BUT I noticed my Blyxa Japonica seems to be browning out as well...as I have been bombarding the water column with nutrients daily (target NO3 = +/- 30ppm) I am thinking now, could it be my co2? 

(I use an inline diffuser and outflow positioned close to the surface... am I off-gassing?) OR the more I think of it, Could it be poor flow?! :O

I mean I have ample flow up top, but perhaps I have a deadspot close to the substrate resulting in poor co2/nutrient transport. maybe my needy plants are telling me something, perhaps I should invest in a nano powerhead or change up my outflow config? 

my head hurts lol


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

so here's a shot of te remaining L Pantanal I planted last week. As you can see the tops seem to be sprouting new growth, but the base of the stems don't look happy 

two out of the six stems planted melted from the base up... i have one stem section i'm allowing to float to see if it will bounce back. 

still stumped on what could be the limiting factor


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

makin some room... muahhaaa!!


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## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

Yes, it's the time of year to gift yourself, too! Whatcha gettin'?


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

crazydaz said:


> Yes, it's the time of year to gift yourself, too! Whatcha gettin'?


lol i'll give you a hint... it begins with C!


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## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

Would it be a......Cryptocorne?


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

crazydaz said:


> Would it be a......Cryptocorne?


omg Don how did you guess?!!! lol


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## alipper (Nov 6, 2012)

Your tank is MINT, absolutely one of the best I've seen, IMO.


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

alipper said:


> Your tank is MINT, absolutely one of the best I've seen, IMO.


dam bro thank you


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

c. usteriana - i picked her up out of my emersed tank with thoughts of transplanting her submersed into the 20L... as i slowly began to de-pot her, i suddenly got leaf slapped by one of the 12" x 3" bullated fronds. I put the pot back down immediately... she wasn't going anywhere anytime soon! :O


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## Marconis (Nov 8, 2010)

Sweet plant!


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## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

Holy Moley!! THat thing is humongous!!! Yeah, don't move her....she's doing well, and you best leave her be!!


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

more plant mass added...muahhahaha!


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## marioman72 (Jan 22, 2010)

thats an intense amount of crypts haha. looks great!


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

marioman72 said:


> thats an intense amount of crypts haha. looks great!


yeeaah baby and the insanity won't stop here... i'll be planting crypts everyday like its going out of style! 

new crypts sp to countdown the days of 2012 and a bonafied 20L crypt tank to welcome the New Year! 

how friggen awesome is that bro?!


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

The Crypto-Jungle-Bells Countdown 2012 continues...








To quote the immortal words of Vanilla Ice: "Will it ever stop? Yo, I don't know.."


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

The salad bar FTS...


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