# Random red cherry shrimp deaths!



## supahenzi (May 24, 2015)

If I'm not mistaken I think that your pH might be a little high, I think they like it more on the acidic side? Around 6.5-7


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## spacebeez (Mar 16, 2015)

I don't think a pH of 8 is too high for RCS, I've kept a 10 gallon RCS shrimp tank with 8.2 pH and they were breeding like mad. Do you keep any other tanks with the same tap water? Have you looked at your city water report to see if there are any harmful contaminants in the water? Excess copper could be a culprit, very rough on inverts.


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## Daisy Mae (Jun 21, 2015)

The pH should be fine for RCS. 
What's the TDS, GH and KH of your tap water vs the tank? Is there a significant difference? 
What is your WC routine? ie how do you prepare the change water, how much do you change and how often?


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## shrimpyshrimp (Dec 6, 2015)

I just checked the water report, and it says 0.008 max mg/L copper, but I'm not sure if the pipes in this house are copper or not. What should I use to check copper in water? (Is there any other indication there might be copper in water?)

Unfortunately, I don't have any other tanks with the same tap water. 

I haven't tested TDS, GH or KH yet since I don't have the kits. I just bought a GH and KH kits from API. Should I buy a TDS meter too?

For WC, since I only have 1 bucket, I siphon around 20% of tank, dump the water. Then put tap water in bucket, put Seachem Prime, mix it up, then put it into tank. I use warm tap water almost the same temp as tank.

Also forgot to mention that I've been testing pH in morning and at night since i read somewhere that having a lot of plants could cause fluctuations in pH. I see in the morning it's around 7.8, and at night it's around 8.0 (2 days thus far). Would that affect the shrimp to the point of death though? (also how would i even prevent that? take plants out?)


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## bcbishop (Dec 7, 2013)

shrimpyshrimp said:


> I just checked the water report, and it says 0.008 max mg/L copper, but I'm not sure if the pipes in this house are copper or not. What should I use to check copper in water? (Is there any other indication there might be copper in water?)
> 
> Unfortunately, I don't have any other tanks with the same tap water.
> 
> ...


I let my water sit over night to off gas after putting prime in it.
You can get a TDS meter off ebay pretty cheap, like $10.


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## jarvitron (Aug 6, 2012)

I lost a whole tank of shrimp when my city changed over from one water source to another (with radically different parameters). I think that PH seems fine, my cherries are in a tank with 7.8 water (by my cheap ebay pH meter) and ~70-90 tds (by my cheap ebay TDS meter). 

What kind of dead? Bad molt dead? (dull color on body, might have part of its exoskeleton removed but not all of it)

When it comes to cherries, it's usually the basics. 
-How often are you changing the water? On my shrimp tank (it's a 29) I change 6 gallons (about 20%) every four days.
-How much/how often are you feeding? Shrimp eat a very small amount and need skip days to make sure they're not letting crud build up.
-When you change water are you siphoning the substrate? What is the substrate (is it an "active" plant substrate that might be leaching nutrients into the water)? 
-How did you cycle the tank when getting it started? 
-Is there a possibility that under your decorations or plants there's a dead shrimp body decomposing (adding bacteria to the water that is weakening the other shrimp)?
-Have you noticed any other critters in the tank, small copepods or anything on the glass? If you look closely can you see if there's any Hydra? Hydra can and do kill shrimp, especially when they've just molted and are sensitive. 

Because of my water death problem from before, I no longer use straight tap and Prime, I have a 3-filter filter housing I put inline with my Python (can't use the siphon feature anymore) with 10u and 5u/5u carbon block filters in them, changed every six months (works so far for me). This removes all the chloramine and many of the other additives from my tap, BUT, Portland has very soft/pure water in general. If your tap is well water you might need more aggressive filtration to reduce TDS (RO).


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## Daisy Mae (Jun 21, 2015)

A water change _usually_ _triggers_ a molt. If the water is too hard, the shrimp can't molt, hence the deaths after WC time. If the water is too soft, there is insufficient minerals to produce a good shell, also causing molt-related deaths. 

It's not the pH that is at issue here. 

You definitely need to measure the tap water for hardness- TDS, GH, KH (TDS is quick and easy way of monitoring your tank's water hardness). This will tell you if your water source has appropriate hardness, if too hard you'll need to mix with RO/distilled to bring down. If too soft, you'll need to add minerals- either Seachem equilibrium or salty shrimp GH/KH. 

Also measure the tank water for same. The difference between your WC water and tank water will tell you if your WC routine is keeping up with evaporation/mineral utilization in the tank (shrimp use minerals, plants use carbonates and minerals, active substrates can bind some minerals and carbonates etc).


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## randym (Sep 20, 2015)

What is an appropriate KH and GH for shrimp?


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## Daisy Mae (Jun 21, 2015)

I use those posted here-

Dwarf Shrimp Water Parameters ? DiscoBee

But with RCS, a little harder water seems to be fine, I have heard of people keeping cherry shrimp in TDS 400 IIRC.


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## randym (Sep 20, 2015)

Daisy Mae said:


> I use those posted here-
> 
> Dwarf Shrimp Water Parameters ? DiscoBee
> 
> But with RCS, a little harder water seems to be fine, I have heard of people keeping cherry shrimp in TDS 400 IIRC.


Thanks! Looks like my tapwater is ideal for cherry shrimp. But probably too hard for CRS.


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## latchdan (Sep 7, 2007)

Daisy Mae said:


> I use those posted here-
> 
> Dwarf Shrimp Water Parameters ? DiscoBee
> 
> But with RCS, a little harder water seems to be fine, I have heard of people keeping cherry shrimp in TDS 400 IIRC.


links not working for me, anyone else?

edit: working now


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## shrimpyshrimp (Dec 6, 2015)

jarvitron said:


> I lost a whole tank of shrimp when my city changed over from one water source to another (with radically different parameters). I think that PH seems fine, my cherries are in a tank with 7.8 water (by my cheap ebay pH meter) and ~70-90 tds (by my cheap ebay TDS meter).
> 
> What kind of dead? Bad molt dead? (dull color on body, might have part of its exoskeleton removed but not all of it)
> 
> ...


No dull colour, or any abnormalities. Just die. They turn dull colour afterwards tho. There's literally one dying right now... 
I change water 1-2 weeks. Around 20% for 10 gallon. I think I've been feeding too much so I've been basically not feeding.
The substrate is flourite black gravel, so just inert gravel. 
I used filter and media from old tank to cycle start. 
I checked and I don't think there are any bodies, but there are a tiny bit of dead plants here and there
There's coprepods, limpets, detritus worms and some kind of tiny slug looking thing (I think there might be result of overfeeding). Nothing that matched what I see on google images for hydra though. 



Daisy Mae said:


> A water change _usually_ _triggers_ a molt. If the water is too hard, the shrimp can't molt, hence the deaths after WC time. If the water is too soft, there is insufficient minerals to produce a good shell, also causing molt-related deaths.
> 
> It's not the pH that is at issue here.
> 
> ...


I'm gonna measure TDS, GH, KH as soon as I get the kit and the meter.


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## WaterLife (Jul 1, 2015)

If I am not mistaken, that clear split along the back is a sign of failed molting.
Do test your TDS, KH, and GH when you get the kits.


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## shrimpyshrimp (Dec 6, 2015)

WaterLife said:


> If I am not mistaken, that clear split along the back is a sign of failed molting.
> Do test your TDS, KH, and GH when you get the kits.


Yea after looking at my picture, I just noticed that as well. It is very hard to see with eye, but looks clear as day in the photo. 

What can cause this type of failed molting? (low or high gh?)


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## jarvitron (Aug 6, 2012)

Unfortunately, both can cause bad molts. Usually in tanks it's high gH, but occasionally when somebody has an aggressively planted tank with CO2 it might be low. The best thread I found on it put it this way. Low gH = diarrhea/too lose stool. High gH = constipation. Food with not enough calcium/too much indigestible protein can exacerbate these conditions.


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## Steindler63 (Oct 8, 2012)

I just found one of my shrimp with the exoskeleton split also, not swimming too well. Funny cause I also counted 4 new molts this morning. My TDS is 260, KH 3, GH 5.

Following this thread for possibilities.


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## Daisy Mae (Jun 21, 2015)

Steindler63 said:


> I just found one of my shrimp with the exoskeleton split also, not swimming too well. Funny cause I also counted 4 new molts this morning. My TDS is 260, KH 3, GH 5.
> 
> Following this thread for possibilities.


This one may be ok eventually. Probably getting ready to molt, maybe after next WC. My shrimp show these splits sometimes then later on I don't see them anymore, and there's newly discarded shells in the tank so they must have molted. Your parameters are very similar to mine, you should be fine.


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## Steindler63 (Oct 8, 2012)

Daisy Mae said:


> This one may be ok eventually. Probably getting ready to molt, maybe after next WC. My shrimp show these splits sometimes then later on I don't see them anymore, and there's newly discarded shells in the tank so they must have molted. Your parameters are very similar to mine, you should be fine.


I hope so. This shrimp is also part of a new batch I just received less than a week ago. Not sure how much of a change in parameters they went through.


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## Steindler63 (Oct 8, 2012)

Didn't make it. Pulled her out of the tank before the assassins started snacking.


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## shrimpyshrimp (Dec 6, 2015)

Just tested GH, KH and TDS. Got 7 for KH, 10 for GH, 232 fro TDS. 

Looks way too high. Is there a easy way of lowering all of the above?


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## Matuva (Jun 8, 2015)

water change with RO water


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## shrimpyshrimp (Dec 6, 2015)

is the GH, KH and TDS too high? I'm looking online and I see people keeping their shrimp in higher?


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## Steindler63 (Oct 8, 2012)

Leaves, maybe some peat moss in a bag in the filter may bring those down a bit. Tans the water but I like the look.




...or maybe I'm just thinking PH. Been a long day.


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## latchdan (Sep 7, 2007)

Your water looks fine for rcs to me.


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## Daisy Mae (Jun 21, 2015)

Discobee's parameters are just one of several guidelines I have seen, here's another set from Shrimp Fever

Cherry Shrimp | Shrimp Fever

Yours is ok for TDS and GH (GH a little on the high end) but KH is a little high (both websites recommend 5 or lower for KH). 

You can try mixing a little bit of RO water. 
By the way test your tap water too, that way you can tell if your WC is sufficient or if there's something leaching carbonates in the tank. 

Leaves and peat lower the pH by adding tannins (acidic substance) to the water.


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## randym (Sep 20, 2015)

At the risk of sounding like a broken record...iodine works miracles if shrimp are dying while trying to molt.

My water hardness is ideal for cherry shrimp, but I still have to add iodine. (I use Kent Marine Iodine or Iodide, supplements commonly sold for marine tanks.) 

Just a drop added to the tank, and the shrimp are much happier and more active, and no more struggling to molt.


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## WaterLife (Jul 1, 2015)

Google "*your city name here* water quality report" (or remove "quality" no good search result, can also call or email your local water department as well)

Post the results or look over them yourself.
I hear a 4:1 ratio of Calcium (Ca) to Magnesium (Mg) is what you want for good shell health.
Even though your GH levels look to be in the proper range, the Calcium and Magnesium in that GH, *might* not be in sufficient levels
Just something to check.

Might as well check the coppers levels as well in the report.


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## thegirlundertherainbow (Aug 12, 2004)

Have no rcs experience as I've just gotten my first online order of them a week Ago, but wanted to mention one thing I've read ( after having some issues and trying to find out what's going on ) and that's that you should never use warm or hot water to do a wc. Correct me if I'm wrong.. But it said that the heating Process often puts more harmful things in the water. (i always used warm water as i figured Prime would work faster expelling stuff)


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