# Lighting lost to glass lids?



## JoeLlama (Jan 3, 2014)

Do any of you guys keep glass/plastic covers over your tanks, or does that lose you too much light? I hate the idea of some poor fishing jumping out and sacrificing itself for the good of plants, and slower evaporation is a nice benefit too. Are there any better options that you've used other than egg crate? That stuff's a bit on the ugly side in my opinion.


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## Texan78 (Nov 17, 2013)

Reptile tank covers are a good alternative if you don't want to use glass or acrylic covers and still keep good air exchange without worrying about jumping fish.


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## Deano85 (Nov 14, 2011)

You can also cut egg crate to fit.


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## Texan78 (Nov 17, 2013)

JoeLlama said:


> Are there any better options that you've used other than egg crate?


OP doesn't want to use egg crate


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

I use canopies with egg crate across the back so that I can keep fish in but still have the evaporation for cooling. I like the ease of working in the tank without the glass in the way. It always seems to need cleaning or replacement.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

Fish don't jump without reason. 

By not creating stressful environments we can eliminate a lot of the fish suicides. Things like cover/hiding places, good ratio of male/female fish, good mixes of non completive fish(both for space & food source). Keeping the water parameters healthy. Not photo-shocking the fish.


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## MarkM (Sep 16, 2012)

I use glass tops on my tanks. As noted, they take a lot of cleaning. I remove them and clean at least once a month. I tested my par several months ago just before cleaning the glass and after. The difference for that one test was about 10%, (normal 20 with clean glass reduced to 18 before cleaning)


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## Lia (Aug 2, 2007)

I use polycarbonate sheets because I put my filter on side of tank not rear thus needed specific sizes ,close to unbreakable, I clean them by just wiping them off in shower with warm water and the light domes are laid right on them (cfl bulbs) and work great.

Acrylic scratched too easy and over time warped as far as putting lights on top unless you use thicker acrylic but why bother when light penetrates thinner polycarbonate that much better.

Given a choice glass of any type or the thin but strong polycarbonate , I find the polycarbonate the best, I use 1/8 inch size and use two separate pieces for the tank cover.

In my case I could not find it locally so ordered it , pre-cut to size but they last forever.

http://freckleface.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/polycarbonatesheetoneeigthinchthick.html


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## Lia (Aug 2, 2007)

DogFish said:


> Fish don't jump without reason.
> 
> By not creating stressful environments we can eliminate a lot of the fish suicides. Things like cover/hiding places, good ratio of male/female fish, good mixes of non completive fish(both for space & food source). Keeping the water parameters healthy. Not photo-shocking the fish.


Some types of fish will jump , it is their nature.

I keep lots platies outside and never a jumper but swordtails and danios jump.


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## TekWarren (Oct 6, 2013)

I use glass tops on both my 40B and new 20 long. I ended up removing the plastic "hinge" on my 20 long as I felt it blocked out to much light and I rest CFL domes right on it. This is an uneated tank so little to no condensation forming on the lid.

I get quite a bit of condensation on the lid for my 40 (heated) and it's pretty much always there. I'm sure it distorts the light some but it is likely minimal, no issues that I can see. I've read some people create a slant in the glass top so the water can roll off, I might try that but I don't know if I really need to be that concerned about it really.

I don't use the plastic strip that goes along the back with the lids so the tops are not 100% covering the top. Maybe that negates using a top at all... My thought is helps hold heat in for energy efficiency (no real evidence of this), protects the light fixture (they are already designed for this use so do they need more protection?), and finally to keep fish in.


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## Tenor1 (Jan 15, 2012)

MarkM said:


> I use glass tops on my tanks. As noted, they take a lot of cleaning. I remove them and clean at least once a month. I tested my par several months ago just before cleaning the glass and after. The difference for that one test was about 10%, (normal 20 with clean glass reduced to 18 before cleaning)


Thanks Mark for directly address the question, although all the responses are very useful. 

I use the full hinged glass top with the black panel across the back because Ecoxotic recommended it to prevent moisture from getting on the LED's. I'm glad to learn from Mark that the PAR is only slightly diminished. I use the black strip to deflect the air bubbles from splashing on the rim of the tank and turning white when the water dries. The air stone is only run at night to put more O2 in the water. My Praecox Rainbows are gasping for air in the morning if I don't run one. The plants compete for O2 when the lights go out and I initially lost Rainbows due to this. It took a lot of playing around to maintain the same pH at the time the lights go out until they come back on. It takes only a very slight amount of air from the stone, much less than I expected. Now the pH is 6.8 at lights off and 6.8 when they and the CO2 come back on.

Some great benefits of covering the tank are extremely low evaporation occurs and it supposedly reduces the amount of CO2 from escaping the thank (don't know how to know if that is true). I remove the top every week and do a vinegar wash to prevent any calcification that would reduce the light intensity. Last week I chipped the glass and will look into the plastic top someone mentioned above.

There are SO many good suggestions in this thread about the top and I agree with Dogfish about the fish jumping issue.


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## CAPSLOK (Dec 8, 2013)

What I use on my SW tank is basically a DIY window screen w/ 1/4" clear netting. Lose no light and keeps the fish in. But it does nothing for evaporation. 
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/diy-aquarium-screen-top-kits-1-4-netting.html

That being said, I plan to use a glass top on my "in the planning stages" 20L planted. The fish I plan like humid air (sparkling gouramis and pygmy cories) and it will also help with evaporation.


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## Tenor1 (Jan 15, 2012)

CAPSLOK said:


> What I use on my SW tank is basically a DIY window screen w/ 1/4" clear netting. Lose no light and keeps the fish in. But it does nothing for evaporation.
> http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/diy-aquarium-screen-top-kits-1-4-netting.html
> 
> That being said, I plan to use a glass top on my "in the planning stages" 20L planted. The fish I plan like humid air (sparkling gouramis and pygmy cories) and it will also help with evaporation.


Sparkling gouramis color-up beautifully in a planted tank. They usually are extremely drab in the shops. Mine looked very similar to Dwarf Gouramis in color.


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## TekWarren (Oct 6, 2013)

So I had a DUH moment this weekend... I use a 36" BeamsWork led on my 40b and it has done very well for me with growing plants...I even get awesome reds and pinks. Anyway things are really filling in and reaching the surface so I thought I would try taking the mounting legs off and and get the light a little closer to the water surface to make sure its penetrating the lower plants still. It was only maybe an inch inch and half up but that can make a lot of difference in lighting. So my fixture is resting right on the top now and I a getting zero condensation under the glass lid where the light at sits. It is just warm enough (not hot) to keep the condensation from building up. The condensation to me is what is is going to through the light off the most since there is no uniformity to it and light going through droplets of water gets all kinds of distorted.

So if possible try putting your light as close to the glass lid as possible to prevent condensation building up directly under it. It will still form on the rest of the lid but not under the light thus less material for the light to penetrate.


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## jrman83 (Nov 22, 2010)

I run all of my tanks with lids off, now. I used to use glass tops on all of them. The condensation only occurred after the light had been out a while and would disappear again shortly after the light came on, using T5HO lights anyway. It was the condensation forming and then drying that usually permanently stained these glass pieces over time with water spots. The condensation even caused algae to form on the glass from time to time for me.

I would say that there is very minimal loss when using a canopy as long as it is kept clean. For me, with big tanks and large canopy pieces and moving some of the lights out of the way it was just one of those things that was easy to overlook and push to the next time. I didn't measure the amount of loss with my PAR meter, when I moved out my canopies my tanks got brighter. Stay on top of the issue and don't do like I used to and you won't be missing much.


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## TekWarren (Oct 6, 2013)

Great advice. I'd like to go no top as like you said that is best for lighting. A few things keep me using them. I may be lucky in that the condensation doesn't cause staining or crusting issues on my lids. I have really good well water that is softened and filtered.


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## mike-guy (Feb 24, 2013)

Lost a fish today so I'm in the market for something. I like the screen idea but has anyone used something just around the perimeter. Like a euro brace kind of thing just to keep fish in? I'm only concerned about keeping fish it.


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## sleepswithdafishez (May 23, 2013)

what about plexiglass?does that block much light?


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## shift (Jan 7, 2013)

I love topless but sometimes question how much humidity and evaporation is created for having a multiple tanks on the go


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## manlyfan76 (Jun 20, 2013)

There is absolutely a wide degree of difference in light loss through different materials and thicknesses. not all glass is the same material and thus it blocks different parts of the spectrum ( mostly the lower ends) dependent on its make up.. See this link for one example of how thickness can vary the light penetration: http://www.quartz.com/pxprop.pdf 

Overall I have been led to believe that perspex is better than glass.


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## Racedoc (Nov 18, 2013)

I have a 90 gal FW tank with glass top and still lose ~ 2-3 gallon per week due to evaporation particularly in the winter with the heat on. Of course I am also running 2 HOB emperor 400's so that probably doesn't help. I can't imagine the evaporative loss I'd have without a top.


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## larams67 (Jan 24, 2006)

Why would condensation under the lid filter out more light than the water in the tank?


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## mike-guy (Feb 24, 2013)

larams67 said:


> Why would condensation under the lid filter out more light than the water in the tank?


I would think because bubbles being the rounded shape they are will refract light at strange angles


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## TekWarren (Oct 6, 2013)

mike-guy said:


> I would think because bubbles being the rounded shape they are will refract light at strange angles



Exactly. Have you ever seen a square or rectangle droplet of water? -me either. All those random droplets are bending and distorting the light numerous ways. The water surface of a tank is fairly uniform compared to many droplets. Is the distortion enough to be concerned about? That probably depends on who you ask.


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## CAPSLOK (Dec 8, 2013)

sleepswithdafishez said:


> what about plexiglass?does that block much light?


You don't want to use plexiglass - it will warp and be unusable pretty quickly. I tried it on a small 2.5g tank and had to switch up to a thicker piece, and still kept ending up flipping it to keep it usable. 

Plus I would think it would block more light, usually when I look at plexiglass it is more opaque than equivalent glass.


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## crazymittens (Jun 4, 2012)

Just get a more powerful light.  I can't have an unsealed tank due to evap issues and temperature loss, so more powerful light solved this problem.

The window screen is the best 'non-eggcrate-but-open-air' solution I've seen so far. Plexi warps in an amazingly short period of time - like a few days. Even a small piece like 12x12" (1/8" thick) bowed in 48 hours.


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

Some fishes that will jump from uncovered tank's just cause they can.
Oscar's,Dempsey's,Swordtail's,Hatchet fish,pencilfish,danio's,killi's,in my expieriences.


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## Saverio (Nov 26, 2006)

This is a growing concern for me as well. 

I just set up a 240g acrylic that is euro braced. I have condensation droplets across the entire brace. I run (2) 10K buildmyLED 72" fixtures suspended about 6" above the bracing (75degree beam angles).

I have the lights dimmed to 75% until I get a better feel for CO2/light/fert balance, but when I put them to 100% output, there still seems to be plenty of light penetration.

Time will tell.


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## jrill (Nov 20, 2013)

MarkM said:


> I use glass tops on my tanks. As noted, they take a lot of cleaning. I remove them and clean at least once a month. I tested my par several months ago just before cleaning the glass and after. The difference for that one test was about 10%, (normal 20 with clean glass reduced to 18 before cleaning)


+1

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk


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