# 30 G Low Tech Goldfish Cube



## equinecpa (Sep 23, 2004)

I"m picking up a 30 Gallon oceanic setup this weekend. I want to do a planted tank (hardy stuff that won't be a goldfish salad bar) with just a couple of fancy goldfish, some loaches and cories and maybe large shrimp/snails. This will be a low-tech tank withouth co2. Right now the tank will have the 20w strip light that comes with it and I'll probably just add another strip for a total of 40w.

I like the look of the white substrate and was thinking of going with pool filter sand and then a scattering of river pebbles. I want to keep the tank bright. Does white or black substrate look brighter in a tank? I see photos and am surprised at how bright some of the black substrate looks - I imagine that this is because it reflects the light back and the white absorbs the light. Also is it possible to keep white substrate clean or does it get algae, detritus etc in it quickly and look messy? Goldies are notoriously messy and though I plan on vacuuming I don't want the tank to look like a pigpen!

My plants will be java fern, crypts, anubias, red lotus, and corkscrew vals and others as I see how well these progress. Should I go with some enriched substrate like flourite or eco complete or will sand be OK for what I'm doing (goldies like to put everything in their mouths so I want to avoid choking hazards. I'll be using RO/DI water because my tapwater is the pits -kills every houseplant I have, so PH will be around 7.0 before any substrate buffering.

That's it for now...photos to come when tank arrives.

Carolyn


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## Roser (Jan 13, 2008)

equinecpa said:


> I like the look of the white substrate and was thinking of going with pool filter sand and then a scattering of river pebbles. I want to keep the tank bright. Does white or black substrate look brighter in a tank? I see photos and am surprised at how bright some of the black substrate looks - I imagine that this is because it reflects the light back and the white absorbs the light. Also is it possible to keep white substrate clean or does it get algae, detritus etc in it quickly and look messy?


Actually, you have it backwards, white reflects light, making it look brighter. A lot of photos can be unintentionally misleading since most people use flash. That's why most people have white / offwhite colored walls - it makes the room brighter than dark paint. So white substrate will brighten the tank more, but it will also look dirty because it shows all the fish poo which settles on top of it. If you want another option, maybe try natural colored sand. I've heard of people using regular play sand. It's lighter colored than black sand, which you may like, and since it is not a uniform color it hides dirt and poo better.

If you haven't, try doing a search on sand substrates, there is a lot of info.


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## CaffeinatedCake (Jun 19, 2008)

Since substrate was touched on by the above, I'd just like to note that my goldfish, who is growing out in a 10g atm and soon will be moved to a 20 [he's an oranda] doesn't really "destroy" my plants in my 10 at all. I've got Guppy grass, Rotala, Hygro, anubias and moss.

He occasionaly drags the moss around, and nips at plants, but rarely eats them. But I also feed him several times a day with small meals. So far he hasn't put any noticable holes in anything :]. It may change as he gets bigger [he's about 2+ inches right now] but so far all is well.


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## equinecpa (Sep 23, 2004)

Ah...thanks for the info...so if I'm looking for Bright...I should go white then...I wonder how long I can keep it clean LOL. I think I'm going to plant in black (probably find some of that Soilmaster stuff) and then try for a white river down the middle. 

I'm hoping to pick up the tank this weekend and substrate too...


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## equinecpa (Sep 23, 2004)

I got a question about water. I am on a rural water system. They add stuff to the water...should I use my ro/di for my planted tank...I know I have tons of minerals in the water (tds about 600) some are probably good but some are probably bad. I know my houseplants die when I water them with it...


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## equinecpa (Sep 23, 2004)

Here's the tank, empty and shiny. I went looking for possible substrates locally yesterday and came up empty handed so it will be sitting empty until I can get that ordered online.

I'm also looking to a cheap way to supplement the basic 18w light strip that came with it. I don't want to go for a whole lot of growth, I just want slow growth and healthy plants. I'd like to shot for about 1.5 watts per gallon. I think a 40w strip might work, what do you think? For now I'll use the 18w plus a spiral I have from another tank...I think it's a 20w... that will give me about 1 watt to start which might be good for breaking in a new tank without a whole lot of algae growth.


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## equinecpa (Sep 23, 2004)

While I'm humming and hawing about substrate I might as well deal with my lighting needs. The tank has an 18w strip. If I got another for 36w (regular flourescent) would this be enough for mosses, anubias, and maybe some kind of grass? 20" strips are cheap and easy to get hold of! I have found someone with a 20" 2x40w light but I fear that will be too much for a non-c02 tank.


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## equinecpa (Sep 23, 2004)

I bought the sms substrate but still haven't worked out my lighting needs. Do you all think 2 x18w strips will be enough to get this started?


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## Mori (Jul 23, 2003)

I don't think those other fish will do very well with goldfish, although the snails will. Are you sure about the goldfish? 

I have a cube about that size as well as goldfish in another tank and think even two fancy goldfish would be about the limits for fish comfort once the fish start to grow. Definitely not three!

But goldfish are absolutely stunning on a black substrate (and planted green background).

Do you have any way to test your water and see what's in it?


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## equinecpa (Sep 23, 2004)

Here's my inspiration...can anyone identify what plants are in this tank:
http://www.aquariumdesigngroup.com/#mi=2&pt=1&pi=10000&s=13&p=1&a=0&at=0


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

its either blyxa aubertii or plastic


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## equinecpa (Sep 23, 2004)

*01-14-09 Update*

Well I have water, substrate, rock and a few plants now.

I added SMS substrate and then bought a few river rocks at a local pond supply store (gosh they had some really attractive ponds...that just may be my next venture).

I ordered some red cherry shrimp and a few plants online. I receive the shrimp last week (the mail lady put them in the mailbox and didn't let me know argggh). I looked at the shipping confirmation and saw they had been delivered but I didn't have them yet. I ran to the mailbox in the morning (sub freezing) and sure enough they were there and all alive -imagine that.

Plants came next. I purchase some anubias coffeefolia, lace java fern, chain swords, and a sprial val. I've go them all in.

I also have some driftwood soaking but man the tannins...the pail is almost black every couple of days...I don't know if it will ever be usable.

So here is a pic. Pardon the smears -they are not visible to the naked eye but boy did the flash ever pick up on them. No fishies yet...maybe this weekend.


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## jargonchipmunk (Dec 8, 2008)

sorry to point this out, but I had to do a double take at the front center rock to make sure it wasn't an old tennis ball you sunk in the tank. lol Aside from that distracting similarity in the photo, the rest looks great


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## j-pond (Dec 18, 2008)

equinecpa said:


> I"m picking up a 30 Gallon oceanic setup this weekend. I want to do a planted tank (hardy stuff that won't be a goldfish salad bar) with just a couple of fancy goldfish, some loaches and cories and maybe large shrimp/snails. This will be a low-tech tank withouth co2. Right now the tank will have the 20w strip light that comes with it and I'll probably just add another strip for a total of 40w.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just to give you a heads up, do NOT put shrimp in the tank with Fancy Goldies, they will just end up as a snack. As for the snail, the only one recomended for Goldies is an apple snail. Dojo loaches will do fine and either Rubbernose or Bristlenose Pletcos as well. Not to sure on the cories? As for the plants, it's hit or miss, so far mine don't eat the Amazon Swords, Moneywort or Ludwigoa repens. They do (for some unknown reason) munch on the anubis even though everyone said they wouldn't.


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## Mori (Jul 23, 2003)

Cories are not a good idea with goldfish. Assuming the goldfish attain any size, they will try to put a cory in their mouth. Catfish stiffen up when scared and get lodged in the goldfish...not good!

I haven't had any problems with snails and goldfish (except small snails are eaten), but that tank would be bordering on overstocked with just two goldfish. You might want to consider going with tropical fish instead of goldfish.


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## lotekfish (Nov 13, 2007)

Let me jump in and give my personal experience with my two Sarasa Comet goldfish. I bought them when they were small and put them in a 20 gallon tank- they were the first two fish that got me back into aquariums. Within a year they were outgrowing the 20 gallon, so I bought a 37 gallon. After a year they were outgrowing that so I put a 200 gallon pond in my yard for them. They love it, and actually bred this summer.

For all the time I had them in tanks I tried to keep the tank planted, and they systematically destroyed everything I put in there. EVERYTHING! Even plants other people said goldfish wouldn't eat. What they didn't eat they just tore up and trashed. I love those two!

This fall I had to move them back into the 37 gallon tank for a short time to do work on the pond- the 37g was turning into a lovely planted tank by this time. I put the two goldfish and their two offspring in the tank and in two weeks they completely destroyed every plant I had in there and ate about 50 cherry shrimp. They also looked like they barely had room to turn around they had gotten so big.

Now they're back in the pond and I've replanted the 37g which is just starting to look OK again.

That's my experience with goldfish- just something to think about before you buy any.

James


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## equinecpa (Sep 23, 2004)

Wow...I have been negligent in keeping this thread going. I guess I"m just having too much fun with my goldie tank! Yes I did go with the goldfish and they are an absolute treat. I currently have 2 saltwater tanks and the goldie tank and get the most enjoyment from the goldies.

So let's go back in time a bit. I first purchased 2 beautiful oranda goldfish a red cap and a black and gold but unfortunately they perished after a month or so. I replaced each oranda and had the same experience, again each perished. Meanwhile I had a calico fantail in there just doing wonderfully. I was buying the oranda's at Petsmart (they are the only LFS in the area that sells them) and I guess they just don't come from a great source. 

Here is a picture as of 02/15/09 with 2 orandas (RIP) and the calico fantail. I can actually see some plant growth in the 3 weeks between photos.


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## equinecpa (Sep 23, 2004)

Then we must fast forward to about 2 months ago. I added more plants. I bought some sagittaria subulata, Myriophyllum pinnatu, water lettuce, najaa grass and some crypt wentiis. I also added 2 bristlenose plecos.

The goldies ate most of themyriophyllum and najaa grass but the rest have done well. I particularily like the crypt wentiis -they add some different tones to the tank.

Along the way I finally updated my lights to a fixture that contains 2 16" 36w bulbs. The bulbs are old and haven't been changed out. I didn't want to go from low to bright over night and deal with a ton of algae issues. The color is far too yellow for my liking (I'm not even sure what spectrum the bulbs are).

Here is the tank today. I've seen lots of growth and am pretty happy.


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## equinecpa (Sep 23, 2004)

My first critters I added to this tank were some red cherry shrimp...I had planned to remove them when I got the goldies but soon realized that was easier said then done in a planted tank so I left them in there and figured they would be expensive goldfish food.

I'm sure some were eaten but the remaining shrimp are flourishing and breeding. Some are truly red. Here is a photo of one I took this week.


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## equinecpa (Sep 23, 2004)

My next task is to change out the bulbs on this tank. I may put a 10k bulb in there to balance out the yellow. 

I was also thinking I'd like a red plant. I did buy some Red Tiger Lotus bulbs (the kind that you can buy at Walmart in the package) but they have done nothing. 
Does anyone have recommendations for a possible red leafed plant that might not be too tasty? I'd like something bushy rather than tall and lanky...


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

I have read that Goldfish are very dirty, thus need good filteration. What filter do you use?


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## equinecpa (Sep 23, 2004)

I have a fluval 204 on the tank and do weekly water changes of about 5 gallons. I don't feed a lot as I don't want them growing too quickly and also less in means less out!


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## DrEd (May 13, 2009)

I think you can use a small bottle as a trap to remove those shrimps from the goldfish tank. Just put some of their favorite food inside and wait for a few hours. Check the shrimp forum and I'm pretty sure you'll find some interesting idea. 



equinecpa said:


> My first critters I added to this tank were some red cherry shrimp...I had planned to remove them when I got the goldies but soon realized that was easier said then done in a planted tank so I left them in there and figured they would be expensive goldfish food.
> 
> I'm sure some were eaten but the remaining shrimp are flourishing and breeding. Some are truly red. Here is a photo of one I took this week.


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## skinz180189 (Jun 26, 2009)

Hilde said:


> I have read that Goldfish are very dirty, thus need good filteration. What filter do you use?


My sister's goldfish still goes strong in a tank where the water only gets topped up, and there is no filtration. It's healthy, eats well, and has never had any disease.


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## DrEd (May 13, 2009)

It might take up to 1 month for those bulbs to sprout. Mine never did and I had to throw them away. Eventually I bought some dwarf lily (red), the plant not the bulbs, and they are doing fine in my goldfish tank.



equinecpa said:


> My next task is to change out the bulbs on this tank. I may put a 10k bulb in there to balance out the yellow.
> 
> I was also thinking I'd like a red plant. I did buy some Red Tiger Lotus bulbs (the kind that you can buy at Walmart in the package) but they have done nothing.
> Does anyone have recommendations for a possible red leafed plant that might not be too tasty? I'd like something bushy rather than tall and lanky...


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## equinecpa (Sep 23, 2004)

Update...ugghh algae. I'm not sure what the cause is possibilities:
a) I changed out a bulb to a 10K bulb (I like the color much better)
b) water lettuce-it is thriving and I've had to thin it because it covered the whole top of the tank
c)Nutrient imbalance- I do 5 gallon water changes each week. I did dose excel for a couple of weeks but noticed no difference in the algae, and did notice a decline in my shrimp population, so I have quit
d) all of the above?

Here's the gruesome picture: 


and here is a shot of the top of the tank - do I need to get rid of a bunch of water lettuce to let the light through?



What do you think is causing the algae and more importantly how would you get rid of it? I should also mention I was running the lights from 9:00-8:00 - I have since broken up that time running the lights from 9:00-11:00 off for 3 hours and then on from 4:00-8:00. I also notice there are some small holes in the leaves. I have one bristlenose pleco in the tank as well as the cherry shrimp and trumpet and ramshorn snails as clean-up crew.


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## THaehn (Jul 14, 2009)

I would just keep the lights on for one of those cycles. 9-11 am probably. Keep any ambient light / sunlight away from the tank and do that for 4-5 days. Don't worry your plants will make it. Do a water change (10 gallons) and hand pick out as much of the algae as you can. After this slowly increase your light to 6-7 hours a day. 9 hours at the most if you are able to rid the tank of algae. This is not an overnight process. Dont expect immediate progress. You have to let the algae die off and try to get as much out of the tank as you can. 

Try not to start an aquarium with old bulbs. This is what happens... When bulbs get old their spectrum actually changes. They become algae producing machines. Get some new bulbs, stick to the schedule above and you should be fine. Also make sure you clean your filter really well after you kill off the algae. There will be plenty of old dead algae in your filter.


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