# How long does it last



## C2C (Apr 7, 2009)

How long does Flourite last


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## bradac56 (Feb 18, 2008)

Flourite only has trace Fe so it's good for along time before it turns to mush. I've used it for three years at a time without problems but I dose water column ferts so I don't depend on the substrate to do anything but give a good CEC count. The same is true for Eco in my opinion there both about the same in my book.

- Brad


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Years, i think.


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## C2C (Apr 7, 2009)

is it worth it if im doing vals and dwarf sag only in certain places
and im doing shelldwelling cichlids...its probably better to do root tabs huh


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## Brian A (Sep 3, 2002)

If you are just doing limited planting I would say get the substrate you want and then add the root tabs.


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## C2C (Apr 7, 2009)

i was just thinking that i should use fluorite cause it costs about the same as my preferred substrate
the only plants i would have would be vals, dwarf sag, anubias and java ferns

but it would only be for certain areas so i guess its not really worth it


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

bradac56 said:


> Flourite only has trace Fe so it's good for along time before it turns to mush. I've used it for three years at a time without problems but I dose water column ferts so I don't depend on the substrate to do anything but give a good CEC count. The same is true for Eco in my opinion there both about the same in my book.
> 
> - Brad


Actually, there is more to flourite than iron as you are stating. Take a look at this link: http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Flourite.html There are also alternate sites confirming there is more than iron as well. This is straight from the website:

"Flourite® is a red clay based gravel that is rich in ferric iron. Comparing Flourite® and laterite on the basis of their iron content alone is not a really valid comparison since they are really quite different products (the old apple and oranges argument). Their iron content is going to be roughly pretty similar, but with each the actual content can vary from lot to lot. Since we don't market it as an iron supplement, we don't make any claims on exactly how much iron it delivers to the water per se. What it does do though is provide a rich source of iron (more than enough to last years) for rooting plants... the plants are able to extract the iron from the Flourite®. There are also other features of Flourite which make it superior to laterite: (1) laterite is intended as a substrate supplement, i.e. you add it to your gravel... by itself it is not a suitable substrate because it will quickly break apart into, well, dirt (2) Flourite® is by itself a suitable substrate because *it remains solid, does not fall apart*,and can be cleaned and gravel vacuumed without unduly upsetting the substrate."

Now, as for my own experience, I have had it for over a year and it is still rock solid. Also, there are other's to go by: http://www.vickisaquaticplace.com/p45gal.html

C2C - I haven't regretted the day I purchased flourite. I started out with hornwort and a few basic stems of foxtail. After getting flourite, I was able to grow everything. It is worth the expense in my opinion. I have just gravel tanks, turface and flourite tanks. The flourite is the best with turface close behind.


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## daverockssocks (Dec 1, 2008)

I've had the same Flourite for 4 years and things grow as well now as they did when it as new.


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## MarkMc (Apr 27, 2007)

I've had it at least 4-5 years and it still grows plants well. It is hard to plant small plants in it though because of the larger grain size. I'm pretty confident that it never turns to mush as was stated by another poster.


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## C2C (Apr 7, 2009)

ok so you have changed my mind...im going to get black but should i get sand cause its softer and i can plant things easier later on


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## C2C (Apr 7, 2009)

*Lighting*

Is 4x65watt pc lights over a 60 gallon enough light for vals, dwarf sags, and dwarf hairgrass


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Decades, your personal taste will change before you need to replace it due to any changes in the flourite itself.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## C2C (Apr 7, 2009)

ok cool ill try the sand
seems like itll be gentler on my plants when they start to grow
black sand...got to see if my boss will order 12 bags for me and his son


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## nismo tetra (Oct 11, 2009)

yea that amount of light is plenty. That is 4.3 watts a gallon, a bit on the high side. What kind of lights are they? You may not need all of that.


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## Riiz (Apr 30, 2008)

C2C said:


> Is 4x65watt pc lights over a 60 gallon enough light for vals, dwarf sags, and dwarf hairgrass


2x65watt is all you will need in a 60gal. They are shallow tanks and light will not have any trouble maintaining more than adequate levels at the substrate.


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## C2C (Apr 7, 2009)

nismo tetra said:


> yea that amount of light is plenty. That is 4.3 watts a gallon, a bit on the high side. What kind of lights are they? You may not need all of that.


power compacts



Riiz said:


> 2x65watt is all you will need in a 60gal. They are shallow tanks and light will not have any trouble maintaining more than adequate levels at the substrate.


really? so 2 watts per gallon is enough


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

I had 2 X 65 pc watts on my 55 gallon and grew lots of pretty plants, I had reds without stunning colors, but algae free growth overall. If you get the 4 x 65 can you turn off one of the sets of lights? If so, I would opt for it. That way you could experiment with the higher light on at different times, etc.


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## C2C (Apr 7, 2009)

ok so with flourite, liquid fert, excel, and other trace element dosing i should be able to grow anything green that requires medium to low light


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Given you've got a good pressurized CO2 setup, yes.


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## C2C (Apr 7, 2009)

no co2


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Then 4x65 watts is too much light.

And most plants rated for "medium light" need CO2 (eg Blyxa, Downoi, most carpeting plants, many stems...)


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## bradac56 (Feb 18, 2008)

I grow Blyxa japonica just fine without C02 with medium light and decent ferts (EI dry dosing) and SMS substrate.

- Brad


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## C2C (Apr 7, 2009)

would the red sea system work...the one that has the pump and is kind of like a diy


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## bradac56 (Feb 18, 2008)

It might work fine but you'll have to futz with it since it's no better than DIY C02 which is never as consistent as a pressurized rig. Lots of DIY C02 people grow amazing plants but they like to tweak there setup where the pressurized group doesn't. It just depends on your willingness to work on it allot. I doubt the red sea bottle costs that much and it shouldn't hurt anything to try it.

- Brad


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## C2C (Apr 7, 2009)

its probably cheaper to do diy huh


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## Riiz (Apr 30, 2008)

C2C said:


> would the red sea system work...the one that has the pump and is kind of like a diy



kind of pointless, I would go DIY, with a few bottles going concurrently and use a Hagen Elite Mini as the diffusor, works amazingly well.


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## daverockssocks (Dec 1, 2008)

C2C said:


> its probably cheaper to do diy huh


 Depends on how much you value your time. I did DIY for two years and after going pressurized I never want to see yeast in a soda bottle again.


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## C2C (Apr 7, 2009)

i wish i had the extra money...with that its going to cost me around $1500 max cost


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## C2C (Apr 7, 2009)

total setup cost that is


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## daverockssocks (Dec 1, 2008)

DIY won't cut it in a 60 gallon tank so lower the light levels


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## bradac56 (Feb 18, 2008)

daverockssocks said:


> DIY won't cut it in a 60 gallon tank so lower the light levels


I agree any tank over 30gal is to big for diy to be effective without *allot* of work. I'd ether go low-light or buy a pressurized kit, your looking at around $200 without the tank (sumo post body kit and a reg for around $50).

- Brad


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## C2C (Apr 7, 2009)

where can you find that price


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

I started out with diy on my 55 gallon and had great success. Granted, I only had 2 x 65 pc watts, but they were on for 10 hours a day and I had successful growth and pearling with little to no algae. My blyxa grew like a weed, the downoi also did and this was all in flourite as well.

Honestly, it wasn't a lot of work - we are talking a drill, some tubing and a couple 2 liters to make the contraption. Then you just make a new yeast mixture every week or so. It took only a few minutes every week. Sometimes, I still wish I never went to pressurized on this tank. I had more success with a medium light fixture, mixing up the co2 and watching my plants grow. Take it slow, learn with yeast and go forward if you prefer. Make it fun, experiment with the yeast mixtures, times between yeast and such. And you'll have a since of pride in the fact you did it all diy. roud:

And for more proof of diy co2 on larger tanks, check out Mark's journal for some beautiful inspiration:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/544592-post53.html


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## bradac56 (Feb 18, 2008)

Sumo's post body kit is $165.00 and will get you everything but the regulator. I just bought a Victor CGA320-32 reg on ebay for $55 from 'ale-outlet' that's $220 for everything you would need except the cylinder and greenleaf has a 10lb'er for $99 if you can't find it locally (which would be cheaper).

- Brad


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## C2C (Apr 7, 2009)

OK so much information
let me get this straight
no co2 i should be fine with 2x65 watt pc for java fern, mosses, anubias, dwarf sag, jungle vals, and anachris


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

C2C said:


> OK so much information
> let me get this straight
> no co2 i should be fine with 2x65 watt pc for java fern, mosses, anubias, dwarf sag, jungle vals, and anachris


Are you using excel? If so, yes. If not, I'd expect algae. By the way, excel will melt vals, so acclimate slowly.


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## C2C (Apr 7, 2009)

omg yea it does...i will be dosing with excel. acclimate it by doing half doses? or less? and slowly building it up to full doses?


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## bradac56 (Feb 18, 2008)

C2C said:


> OK so much information
> let me get this straight
> no co2 i should be fine with 2x65 watt pc for java fern, mosses, anubias, dwarf sag, jungle vals, and anachris


Correct as long as you dose excel and maybe GH Booster on your occasional big water changes your good to go with low-light.

- Brad


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

C2C said:


> omg yea it does...i will be dosing with excel. acclimate it by doing half doses? or less? and slowly building it up to full doses?


I would go slowly. Try 1/4 dose for a week, then 1/2 dose a week or so and then go full strength. I melted vals with one full dose overnight. :icon_eek:


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## C2C (Apr 7, 2009)

ok ill do the partial doses of excel with african cichlid buffer
is there anyother tall low light plants that fill space like vals


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