# Help me breed neon tetras!!!!



## ichthyogeek (Jul 9, 2014)

Looks like you're on the right track. I think with rainforest species, you simulate the breeding season for them, which is: cooler, cleaner water with lots of nutritious food. Black water is good. I'm not too sure about 24 tetras in a 10 gallon...that seems like a lot of fish, especially with how big the tetras grow.

Fusedjaw.com has a good guide on decysting and hatching brine shrimp eggs. Live foods are good for conditioning. You'll also need to look into "infusoria". Specifically, try looking for freshwater rotifers, paramecium, vinegar eels, and euglenoids and how to culture them, as those will be good fish fry food.

Old literature says to cover the breeding tank (where the eggs are laid) after the eggs are laid to keep the tank dark. Probably relevant to the blackwater conditions you've already set up. Oh, and the neons will eat their eggs.

I couldn't really tell you any more information than the above. I've not really bred many fish...


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## Grah the great (Jul 3, 2013)

I'm no expert on this, but neon tetras do not seem to me to be good candidates for a beginner with egglayers. Good for you that you are trying anyway, though! Many egg scatterers are terrible egg eaters, neons included, and you will likely need to move the fish to another tank after they lay eggs. The common method is to separate the sexes, feed them heavily with live and frozen for a week, then put a few of each together in a spawning tank with some sort of mechanism to hide the eggs from the parents, removing them within a day or two. I'm pretty sure neon tetra fry are too small to take BBS right away, so you will need to come up with some smaller live food item.

Here's how I hatch BBS: I take an upside down bottle, fill it with water with two tablespoons of baking soda per quart, put an airline in it, and pour in some BBS eggs. Wait about 24 hrs if the temp is in the low 70's to 80 range, stop the aeration, and wait about 5-10 minutes. Most of the (markedly orange) BBS will sink to the bottom, allowing you to suck it up with a turkey baster, pour it through a BBS net, rinse it in tap, and feed it to the fish. the remaining BBS can be sucked out with an airline not unlike how you vacuum a fish tank...be careful not to catch the empty brown shells floating at the top.


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## cooledwhip (Apr 3, 2016)

ichthyogeek said:


> Looks like you're on the right track. I think with rainforest species, you simulate the breeding season for them, which is: cooler, cleaner water with lots of nutritious food. Black water is good. I'm not too sure about 24 tetras in a 10 gallon...that seems like a lot of fish, especially with how big the tetras grow.
> 
> Fusedjaw.com has a good guide on decysting and hatching brine shrimp eggs. Live foods are good for conditioning. You'll also need to look into "infusoria". Specifically, try looking for freshwater rotifers, paramecium, vinegar eels, and euglenoids and how to culture them, as those will be good fish fry food.
> 
> ...


I can move some neon tetras out of the tank. I can put some in a different tank. 

I will be using hikari first bites. That should be good right? I have no idea about infusoria. please help me

Also go into detail about how you hatch the eggs please?

Do I need a light?

Do I need salt?

Thanks

I don't really have access to another tank to separate sexes though.

Should I try a divider?

For conditioning, can I use frozen food? I have lots of brine shrimp eggs I want to try hatching some more.


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## ichthyogeek (Jul 9, 2014)

Hikari First bites are approximately the size of artemia nauplii or microworms. They're good for livebearer and cichlid fry, but won't do for most egg scattering fish. As for infusoria...legit you just do a google search. A lot of your questions can be answered this way. There are recipes out there that you just have to google "infusoria" or "how to culture infusoria" or something like that to get a good answer. Off the top of my head, you can start off by looking for green water in any fish tanks you see (it is very green, or has a green tint to it), and culturing that (again, google). Additionally, in the old days, you could just grab some pond water, which should be teeming with food for the fry. Again, look into freshwater rotifers, I know that there's at least one online store that sells rotifers, microalgae for the rotifers, and whatever you wanna try at feeding the tetra fry.

Decapsulating Brine Shrimp Eggs | FusedJaw | FusedJaw
DIY Brine Shrimp Hatchery | FusedJaw | FusedJaw
Raising Brine Shrimp | FusedJaw | FusedJaw
^read these^ .

You can use a divider, but make sure there is equal flow throughout the tank to prevent one side from getting stagnated.

Conditioning livestock can work with frozen foods, yes.


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## lksdrinker (Feb 12, 2014)

Grah the great said:


> Here's how I hatch BBS: I take an upside down bottle, fill it with water with two tablespoons of baking soda per quart,


did you perhaps mean 2 tablespoons of salt and a little pinch of baking soda per quart?


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

You need acidic water with a bit of humic content to get them to breed, also they respond to normal stimuli like temperature changes/ water changes etc. If your water isn't soft enough they will not be able to fertilise eggs.

I suggest you try with some glolight tetras first to see if you can get the water parameters right for breeding first. They have the same issue with needing very soft water of low TDS, but are not as light sensitive. They also breed relatively easily.

The hard part about neons is, they need to be kept in the dark, as eggs and young fry are light sensitive.










Simple breeding setup that works for glowlights too... shallow water level, dense plastic spawning carpet to protect the eggs, and a bit of java or similar moss for them to get busy in. Put fish in at dusk and remove at about 11 the next morning, leaving only the eggs.

This is what it looks like at farm scale.


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## Grah the great (Jul 3, 2013)

lksdrinker said:


> did you perhaps mean 2 tablespoons of salt and a little pinch of baking soda per quart?


Nope...two tablespoons straight baking soda, no added salt. Works completely and utterly fine for hatching (growing out brine shrimp would need proper sea water).


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## cooledwhip (Apr 3, 2016)

Nordic said:


> You need acidic water with a bit of humic content to get them to breed, also they respond to normal stimuli like temperature changes/ water changes etc. If your water isn't soft enough they will not be able to fertilise eggs.
> 
> I suggest you try with some glolight tetras first to see if you can get the water parameters right for breeding first. They have the same issue with needing very soft water of low TDS, but are not as light sensitive. They also breed relatively easily.
> 
> ...


I just started using my rain water. Hopefully I can do a large soft water change soon with very acidic rain water. You seem to know what you are doing since you have bred giant danios which I am ALSO trying to breed.

I have conditioned for 2 weeks but no eggs. They are fat and chase a lot but no spawning.

They are all in the same tank though. I may separate them soon. Would I be able to put them in 5 gallon paint buckets? I have no tanks free. Any other tips? thanks


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

Try and separate males and females for a week or so, then use your best male and female. Some people have more luck that way.
I've always been lucky to get them to spawn in a group, but our water is too hard to fertilise the eggs.

They are very efficient at eating their own eggs, so a spawn carpet is good...


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## cooledwhip (Apr 3, 2016)

I can't find spawning mats or carpets anywhere. Where did you get yours?


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## jaliberti (Dec 5, 2015)

cooledwhip said:


> Anyone got a guide on how to breed neon tetras? I just ordered about 24 of them. Here is my tank 10 gallon, fully cycled with rain water, low pH and the water is brownish from the stale water which is good for breeding. I will add some leaf litter an d indian almond leaves when the fish arrive. Sand substrate. I have spawning mops, there is no light in the tank. I just want to know how to breed these guys to get some eggs. Never bred an egg scatterer before, .


I've bred _Trigonostigma heteromorpha_, an egg scatterer with similar temperature and pH requirements as _Paracheirodon innesi_, and >30 spawns of wild bettas from the coccina complex. Their eggs are not scattered but are placed in a bubble-nest. They require pH <5.0

24 _P. innesi_ is too many for 10g. What do you mean when you say "low pH"? Have you measured it with a digital monitor? You will need one, especially to raise fry. Can you explain what you mean when you say "rain water... the water is brownish from the stale water"? I've stored rain water for months and have not seen this. What is the rationale for waiting for the fish to arrive to add the indian almond leaves vs adding them now? I'm just curious. Sand substrate, or just about any substrate other than leaves or peat, is going increase your pH. You say "no light in the tank"... the fish will need exposure to a light cycle of >12hrs, e.g. a window across the room. 



Nordic said:


> You need acidic water with a bit of humid content... shallow water level...


I second that, that's why I was asking about why you are waiting to add the leaves. Also, do you have access to a supply of leaves that can last throughout the lifespan of the fish, their F1's, F2's, etc?



cooledwhip said:


> I just started using my rain water. Hopefully I can do a large soft water change soon with very acidic rain water... Would I be able to put them in 5 gallon paint buckets?...


You have acidic rain water? That's cool. Rain where we are falls with a 4.92 pH. Maintaining that level is another story entirely. The pH level rises as the days pass until it's up near neutral. How often are you going to do "a large soft water change with very acidic rainwater"? If not done daily with fresh acidic rain (impossible) then the pH level of the water in your tank(s) will rise until it hits neutral. Adult fish can live in neutral rainwater but not thrive/breed. Eggs will fungus over and never hatch. Fry born in acidic water will succumb to a host of ailments when the pH rises. Re the 5g buckets: as Nordic has suggested you will need shallow water level. In a 5g bucket this will mean only ~1g of water --- not really enough.



Nordic said:


> Try and separate males and females for a week or so, then use your best male and female...


If you can sex them then definitely go this route, otherwise go with the 3 largest and the 3 smallest in one 10g. Put the other 18 elsewhere. 



cooledwhip said:


> I can't find spawning mats or carpets...


Your spawning mops will suffice.

Good luck to you and keep us updated.


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

Aquarium Plastic Fish Tank Decoration Water Green Breeding Grass Plant 
e-bay

If they are in breeding condition, you should have no problems sexing them, the females will be round and gravid.


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## cooledwhip (Apr 3, 2016)

You asked me a lot of questions @jaliberti.

The water I have in my tank is collected from outside then changed into the tank.

The pH of the water is 5.0 at most. My test kit only goes as low as 5.

I have bags and bags of indian almond leaves from when I tried to breed bettas. Never worked out. I got lots of leaves though.

I have been told numerous times that tetras should be spawned in the dark. I can add light but they are in a dark tank now. The substrate is sand, with some small river stones the size of marbles to collect fallen eggs. I can throw leaves in later. 

I have about 12 in there now. The other 12 are in another tank.

I'm not too worried about the giant danios. I'm going to try a different setup sometime later this year. I have an old 45 gallon tank that I can put them in. Should I transfer the males or females to the 45? The other sex will stay in the 20 tall.

OK, Back to the neons: it was brown because of the previous fallen leaves inside the tub.

I'm very new to this hobby and I would like as much help and info as I can get. Any suggestions are great. Thanks


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## cooledwhip (Apr 3, 2016)

Also for the BBS. how long can they live after hatched? I plan on using dual 2 liter bottles to hatch eggs. I don't know how long they can live or how do let them live because when I do condition fish for 1-2 weeks, I want a batch to last that long. I don't want to make a batch each day. Thanks


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

I normally feed the fish after harvesting and stick the rest in the fridge, this stops them from growing fast and burning through the egg yolk that you want your fish to feed off. it is ok for the day of harvest and the next day, after that it goes rancid quite fast.


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## GrampsGrunge (Jun 18, 2012)

You know Neons are a really bad choice of fish to learn egglayer spawning with. Your tank is too crowded, so they will not be in prime breeding condition without constant care and near daily partial water changes. 

I'd also be careful about the leaves you have in your outside 'rain barrel', some leaves can leave toxins in water that would make fish sick Your water-barrel's water maybe 'brown', but it's possible it could also poison the fish. The possibility of 24 Neons dying because you didn't research whether the tree and it's leaves in your rain barrel was poisonous, I wouldn't want to wake up to that.

The best beginners fish for egglayers are White Cloud Mountain Minnows, or White Clouds. No need for special water conditions, just make sure your tap water is treated for Chlorine and Ammonia. The babies are pretty much ignored by the adults if you keep them well fed, and they will spawn nearly continuously. A group of 10 in a 10 gallon would be a good starting point. 

I would get a lot of Java Moss and Fern to provide hiding places for the young fish. The White Cloud babies are small, but not so small that they need extremely small food, and they will eat pretty much any finely powdered quality dry food. Feed sparingly, there will probably be a bit of infusoria present in the tank to nibble as they become free swimming. Don't expect large spawns, you're doing well if a few babies show up each week, they lay eggs singly and for an egg layer the eggs are fairly large.


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## jaliberti (Dec 5, 2015)

cooledwhip said:


> ... how to breed neon tetras... Please help I really want to do this but have no clue.





cooledwhip said:


> You asked me a lot of questions @jaliberti...


In your 1st post you were pleading for help. Often times help comes in the form of questions (Socratic Method) to get you thinking critically about what you are doing. I won't ask you anymore questions. Good luck.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

Grah the great said:


> Nope...two tablespoons straight baking soda, no added salt. Works completely and utterly fine for hatching (growing out brine shrimp would need proper sea water).


It depends on the fairy shrimp/brine shrimp species if they need salt or not. Read the instructions on the package. I believe the eggs collected in Arizona does not require salt.


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

Walk first, then run. Maybe a bike later. You are still too far from a Ford.


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## cooledwhip (Apr 3, 2016)

GrampsGrunge said:


> You know Neons are a really bad choice of fish to learn egglayer spawning with. Your tank is too crowded, so they will not be in prime breeding condition without constant care and near daily partial water changes.
> 
> I'd also be careful about the leaves you have in your outside 'rain barrel', some leaves can leave toxins in water that would make fish sick Your water-barrel's water maybe 'brown', but it's possible it could also poison the fish. The possibility of 24 Neons dying because you didn't research whether the tree and it's leaves in your rain barrel was poisonous, I wouldn't want to wake up to that.
> 
> ...


I've used the same rain water system for years buddy. 

The common trees near me are not poisonous....

Where do you live? In a jungle or something?

Bump: Thanks for everyone's suggestions. I agree that neons seem hard to breed. For me at least, they are very hard. I won't focus on the neons now. I will focus on the giant danios as I now have access to a 45 gallon super long tank. I have 12 in the 10 gallon and 12 in a different tank. I'll just keep them in the tank.

I have a lot of fish I plan on breeding.

Here are some fish I already have, I don't know how easy they would be to breed, or if anyone could give me suggestions on if I should breed them now or not:

threadfin rainbowfish
dwarf neon rainbowfish (my favorite, I can't find nice looking ones anywhere, I only have about 5 nice ones)
german blue rams (I just bought 4 of these guys, I already had 2 but I am trying to get a couple of them to pair off, so far they are in my 20 gallon long community until I can find a tank for them. Would a 10 gallon work?)


Thanks much guys.

I really want to breed those three fish at one point. I want the GBR's to pair off asap, I don't care too much about them spawning but I figure I might as well get them to try and pair off.


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## ichthyogeek (Jul 9, 2014)

Just because the trees aren't poisonous for you...doesn't mean they aren't poisonous for the fish themselves. If I remember correctly, black walnut trees are highly toxic towards aquatic life, and those live throughout the USA, and people keep those in their yards. Gramps is just making sure you aren't killing off your fish, so check the tone buddy.

I'll agree that neons are hard to breed. But not impossible; the learning curve is steep though. You might as well try it, since the neons are already in the tank. Large water changes, separated sexes, and make sure that you're able to give the fry a soft, dark water. 

As for your potential fish list...yeah have fun with that. The dwarf rainbows will be some of the easier fish to breed, followed by the GBR's. Threadfins have very, very small fry, with even tinier mouths. A lot of people recommend WCMM's, but I only had success with them in a tub outside. I've heard good things about zebra danios. Oh, and as for the brine shrimp: any "wasted" baby shrimp (those that are too big, or aren't enriched, or hatched too early for a spawn), can be used to feed all of your resident fish.


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## cooledwhip (Apr 3, 2016)

ichthyogeek said:


> Just because the trees aren't poisonous for you...doesn't mean they aren't poisonous for the fish themselves. If I remember correctly, black walnut trees are highly toxic towards aquatic life, and those live throughout the USA, and people keep those in their yards. Gramps is just making sure you aren't killing off your fish, so check the tone buddy.
> 
> I'll agree that neons are hard to breed. But not impossible; the learning curve is steep though. You might as well try it, since the neons are already in the tank. Large water changes, separated sexes, and make sure that you're able to give the fry a soft, dark water.
> 
> As for your potential fish list...yeah have fun with that. The dwarf rainbows will be some of the easier fish to breed, followed by the GBR's. Threadfins have very, very small fry, with even tinier mouths. A lot of people recommend WCMM's, but I only had success with them in a tub outside. I've heard good things about zebra danios. Oh, and as for the brine shrimp: any "wasted" baby shrimp (those that are too big, or aren't enriched, or hatched too early for a spawn), can be used to feed all of your resident fish.


Thank you. What is a WCMM?

I was considering breeding outside. But, I live in chicago and cold weather will be here in a month or so. I have guppies outside that breed like crazy outside on their own.

the leaves I meant aren't harmful to the FISH. not me. I've used it with my fish multiple times. Sometimes I used dry leaves to bring pH down.

That list I gave you is fish that I want to for sure breed throughout the year sometime. I will try and separate sexes with the giant danios, hopefully that will cause spawning as I had never separated sexes when breeding fish.

I can provide soft dark water for the neons. I can also do big water changes. I will be back on these forums a lot to take advantage of the knowledgeable people on these forums. Thanks guys.

I think I'll try and separate the sexes on the giant danios, try to breed those guys first since I already have them conditioned. I saw one of them kinda nudged into the spawn mob flapping up and down a bit, it looked almost as if it was spawning.

Also for the GBR's, I saw one of my GBRs with a clearish white nub by the anal fin, I assume it may have been a breeding tube? I haven't seen any eggs, and they are in my community planted tank.

How necessary is it to separate sexes when breeding fish? I plan on buying some tanks soon. I just want to know if it's worth it. I was going to buy maybe 2-3 10 gallon tanks and separate the neons, and the giant danios. 

Of these fish, which do you think would be the easiest to breed after the giant danios? I'll just leave everyone as they are and not touch them. I just got the new GBR's and neon tetras last week. The rainbow fish I have had. The school of 7 threadfins look ready to breed and are always together.

neon tetra
dwarf neon rainbow
threadfin rainbow
corydora (simple waterchange. I'm just letting them adapt now)
GBR

Thanks

I've heard mixed things about the neons, some say they are hard to breed some say they are easy.

I would like to start with the threadfins next as I'm scared they will be too mature to breed as I have had them for a while.


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

Corys are hard to stop breeding... species own tank, cooler side of their preferred range and about 5 to 6 adult fish, keep them well fed.
Danio's are easy to breed but hard to raise without defects (best done outside, so you are a bit late for this season).


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## ichthyogeek (Jul 9, 2014)

WCMM - the white cloud mountain minnow (Tanichthys albonubes)

Agree with the corydoras that nordic posted. That will work for the majority of corydora species.

Threadfins are also hard to take care of breeding wise. Are you sure you have a mixed group of males and females? I recall looking up that most LFS tanks hold a majority of males, making it hard to grab the females and create a breeding population. Again, they have tiny, tiny mouths. Look into rotifers and infusoria if you're serious about them.


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## cooledwhip (Apr 3, 2016)

ichthyogeek said:


> WCMM - the white cloud mountain minnow (Tanichthys albonubes)
> 
> Agree with the corydoras that nordic posted. That will work for the majority of corydora species.
> 
> Threadfins are also hard to take care of breeding wise. Are you sure you have a mixed group of males and females? I recall looking up that most LFS tanks hold a majority of males, making it hard to grab the females and create a breeding population. Again, they have tiny, tiny mouths. Look into rotifers and infusoria if you're serious about them.


I have about 4 females/3 males or 5 females/2 males 1 is hard to tell gender.


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## GrampsGrunge (Jun 18, 2012)

cooledwhip said:


> I've used the same rain water system for years buddy.
> 
> The common trees near me are not poisonous....
> 
> ...


As a matter of fact I live on the edge of a big 2nd growth mixed conifer forest in maritime Oregon. It's a temperate rain forest, so yeah, it could look like a 'jungle' to some people. We have two native trees with leaves shed annually that could be toxic, Bay Myrtle and Wild Cherry. I'm of the opinion the Firs, Cedars, Spruce, and Hemlock fronds could be possibly toxic, they all have a strong evergreen smell.

Oh and I use surface water, 'pal', I still am careful about what other additions go into my water. The more you know.


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## MassiveDynamic17 (Feb 3, 2015)

I had an idea for breeding my friend's depressed piranhas- they live in a huge, but sterile, empty tank. I was thinking of ways to nudge them into breeding by stimulating their baser instincts. Plant heavily to remind of the ancestral homes where they evolved. Feed them live food to whet their appetites. (They currently eat pellets) Also, I realize I'm a big believer in undergravel filters pumped by powerheads. Not only is its filtration robust, it enables a lot of biological filtration- I was thinking if the water is more active on a microbial level, it might do something to their immune systems and affect them hormonal-ly. That last part is speculation, haha. 

I recently discovered "green" neon tetras- I thought these ideas could be used to breed them. Blue is my favorite color.

Anyway, my two cents- live food + dense plant life


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## cooledwhip (Apr 3, 2016)

This is my current setup with danios chasing around everywhere. I have been conditioning with frozen foods for about 2 weeks, and soon I will set up a 20 long and throw mops in there, and just throw a single male and a single female in there and try to collect eggs. I haven't found any at all and I've been conditioning for so long. I'm pretty angry.

Here is a vid of them darting around. Are they breeding ready?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PlORJXnuH4


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