# marsilea minuta vs. quadrifolia?



## chris.rivera3 (Apr 15, 2008)

IMHO they have the same growth pattern. I have both in the same tank and they grow at about the same rate.


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## ponyo (Aug 9, 2010)

Ok Thanks chris. I guess I'll stick with minuta then since I definitely know that one is legal here. Wish it would grow but oh well.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

ponyo: Are you using higher lighting, CO2 and ferts? If not, your Marsilea minuta won't grow quickly. 

It's taken me almost a year to see any major (that's not saying much - see my 12gal journal for details) new growth in a low-tech environment.


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## BruceF (Aug 5, 2011)

I had some marsilea in a tank for about a year and it didn’t grow at all. Four leaves on four stems just stood there. So one day I up rooted it and moved it. Since then it has started growing fairly rapidly across the substrate. 
I am not really sure what happened.


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## ponyo (Aug 9, 2010)

Yeah it's a low tech tank/no CO2 tank. Well I do add excel but more so that I don't get wicked bad algae which I get anyway. LOL It's kind of a mess. Thanks for the replies!


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

If you're getting tons of algae, then you need to address that.

What are the dimensions of your tank?

Could you share specifics about your lighting? Type? Brand? Size?


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## ponyo (Aug 9, 2010)

It's a 29 gal. 30" x 18" high by 12" deep IIRC. I have eco complete substrate that always looks disgusting--I can't really clean it well because of the M.M and drift wood. 30" T5 NO coralife light 2x 18watt bulbs. 6700K and colormax. They're on the old side now and I just bought two 6700K ones to replace them (I couldn't find the colormax). I've always had an algae problem so I don't think it's just that the bulbs are old. 

My pH is 7.6 and the water is hard but not from calcium I don't think. The water is from a well. I live on an old farm with lots of farm loam. 

I have a whole bunch of anubias nana petites that grow fine but reverted to being normal sized. Not sure if it's my tank or where I got them from--they're from tissue culture. I got a ton of them for like $10 so I'm not complaining and they seem to be healthy. I have one regular anubias nana that also does well. Then I have some bacopa carolina I think it's called. It does ok and seems to grow. And then the M.M. I've also tried lilaeopsis mauritiana, dwarf sag, val. nana and they all died. Plus I got a nice plant package of taller type plants (I don't remember the names but there were a whole bunch and some red ones). They all died. 

I most get a very hard algae the clings to the glass. It's hard to tell the color really but if I had to guess I would say it's brown although it used to be green. Does that make any sense? Like when I first started my tank it was super stuck onto the glass and it was green. Not it's a little easier to scrape off and it's more brown then green I think.


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## ponyo (Aug 9, 2010)

Here's a picture(sorry my camera is not good at taking close up pictures) of my tank when I first planted the plant package I bought from the swap and shop. Pretty much everything but the things I listed above died. I got rid of the moss because it got so dirty and then it kept falling off--it wouldn't attach very well and it was all over my tank. I think from this picture I actually have less M.M. now. So maybe the MM is actually not doing as well as I thought.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Your Anubias won't really need much in the realm of ferts beyond a few root tabs placed in the substrate beneath them.

Are you using root tabs or dosing anything for your other plants?


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## ponyo (Aug 9, 2010)

I'm not dosing anything yet. I'm hoping the ferts might clear up the algae and help with the M.M. They were recommended to me by a member here and I read the whole long thread by Tom Barr and he recommends them. Only one of my anubias are actually planted in the eco complete. All the rest are on the drift wood. 

I'm also hoping some day I might be able to plant things besides the anubias LOL And I would really like more of cover with the MM. but I'm wondering if I should increase my light or not. I mean I won't do it now because I just bought the replacement bulbs but next time year when they need to be replaced. Everyone on the low tech discouraged me from doing so but I already have algae so it's not like it can really get worse... and then maybe I could grow stuff. I don't mean increasing the lights by a lot, just a tiny bit. I think it works out to about 1.2 watts/gal right now.


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## aokashi (Jun 12, 2012)

pretty tank  the house is a nice touch!


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

I blew up your picture and I'm pretty sure you have MQ already instead of MM. I grow both and I find it does terrible in Eco compared to aqua soil or the lighter substrates. You can lighten you Eco by stirring some aqua soil or dirt into it.


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## ponyo (Aug 9, 2010)

chad,
Isn't MM supposed to be smaller than MQ? The stuff in my tank is pretty small. I've only seen MQ in the emersed form in the stores so it's hard to compare it... I got the MM from the swap and shop here. 

That's intersting about the substrate. I will check into that. Thanks!


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## AnotherHobby (Mar 5, 2012)

Just for reference, this is what MM looks like in my tank. I'm getting good growth in medium light, CO2, Ferts, and aqua soil. I thought it was growing slower until I moved/propagated some of it and compared to pics from 6 weeks ago when I planted it.


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## ponyo (Aug 9, 2010)

Mine look like that, just not so healthy or close-growing.


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## AnotherHobby (Mar 5, 2012)

For reference, that's 6 weeks of growth. This is how densely it was planted on day 1:


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## dastowers (Feb 19, 2011)

I too LOVE that house in the scape. Looks like a Swiss valley.


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## ponyo (Aug 9, 2010)

Thanks for the compliments on the house. I think I made it way back in grade school. I wanted to find a sort of witches-house sort of thing to go there so this was kind of like a place marker.


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## Captivate05 (Feb 23, 2010)

My experience with MM is that it _really_ likes co2. When I switched from DIY to pressurized, it responded quickly and grew new nodes fast.

I've only had minuta, so I probably can't talk much, but to be honest, I can't tell the difference between them in their submersed state under lower lights. In my 10g under bright light and loads of co2, my minuta was *tiny*. When I moved it to my 29g, which has less intense lights, the leaves grew bigger to compensate. When I moved a few nodes to my mom's very low tech tank, it basically didn't grow many new leaves at all and slowly started to fade out.

My 29g has two of the same light fixtures that you have on yours, with three working lights (I really need to put some new bulbs in...). It has pressurized co2 and I dose EI dry ferts. I have Flourite substrate. I can grow a variety of plants in the tank (including MM to great success), but it _needs_ the co2 and ferts.

I would start dosing ferts, or at least putting in some root tabs. Using Excel probably wouldn't be a bad idea either, or some DIY co2.


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## ponyo (Aug 9, 2010)

Thanks for the suggestions!


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

I grow both without Co2. Mine are both proven true emergent then submerged again. For reference MM leaves are about a quarter of the size of a pencil eraser. Although its sold often on here its frequently misy misidentified. The real thing is actually pretty rare to find. It never gets leaves as big as a pencil eraser, low light or not. If I could figure out how to get a pic on here from my phone I would show you the difference. I moving so my net is down and it will be a few weeks before I can get back on my laptop.


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## minicrazy592 (Apr 1, 2010)

I grow MM in my 12g with high light and high CO2. The leaves are very small (about a 2mm across).


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Mincrazy592 thats a nice tank and a prime example of the difference. MM is noticeably smaller like yours shows. High light or low light doesn't seem to make a difference on the size of the leaf and neither does Co2 or frets. With lower light you tend to get a lot more four leaved stems. Without ferts it tends to just grow a lot slower as well as Co2 but it doesn't make a difference in the size of the leaf. Ponyo and Another hobby, you guys both have MQ.


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## AnotherHobby (Mar 5, 2012)

Interesting... they were sold to my by sjb1987 here in the SNS as MM, but clearly you are correct. I like the plant, so it's good to know it's correct name!


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## h4n (Jan 4, 2006)

AnotherHobby said:


> Interesting... they were sold to my by sjb1987 here in the SNS as MM, but clearly you are correct. I like the plant, so it's good to know it's correct name!


It was most likely sold to him as MM.
I tend to find that a lot.

-Sent from my Samsung Note, a "Phablet"


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## AnotherHobby (Mar 5, 2012)

h4n said:


> It was most likely sold to him as MM.
> I tend to find that a lot.


I'm sure that's the case. It doesn't matter to me anyway because I like the plant I got. :thumbsup:


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Yes. Mid identified plants are common and hard to stop because of what Han said, that's what they received it as. As far as the MQ, I like it better because frankly, it grows faster and covers more space, andtthere's only a minor difference in the two. Not worth the wait or price tag IMO. And nobody but a fellow plant nerd is going to be able to tell the difference


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## h4n (Jan 4, 2006)

chad320 said:


> Yes. Mid identified plants are common and hard to stop because of what Han said, that's what they received it as. As far as the MQ, I like it better because frankly, it grows faster and covers more space, andtthere's only a minor difference in the two. Not worth the wait or price tag IMO. And nobody but a fellow plant nerd is going to be able to tell the difference


You plant nerd you! Haha

-Sent from my Samsung Note, a "Phablet"


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## Jello (Aug 2, 2012)

Wow, now I'm totally confused. So MQ is larger than MM but is commonly sold as MM? So what about M. Crenata? 

I really like the small size from minicrazy592's tank. Where can I get me some of those (whatever they are called)??


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## minicrazy592 (Apr 1, 2010)

My LFS orded them for me from Florida Aquatic.


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## steelo27 (Mar 3, 2015)

Ok so whats wrong with my MM (or MQ)? Its got this black/grey hair algea covering it, is shooting off brown runners and brown 4 leaf nodes. it's only been planted 2 weeks, so maybe I'm being impatient but I don't think this is normal. please help.


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## Bishop61 (Oct 18, 2014)

I started a MM carpet in my original scape... and it took FOREVER to carpet. Then I got my first bout with BBA and it was infested. Loved the plant, but switched out to faster growers


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