# Started my first 10 gallon Walstad last night, now confused?



## bpb (Mar 8, 2011)

From the sound of it...you used this:










You should have used this:










The goal is to avoid any wetting agents, additional fertalizers, time release capsules, chicken manure, ect. 

What you have may grow plants, but don't ever add wildlife to the tank. I would break it down, rinse it out, throw your existing substrate in a pot, grow an decorative fern or something and put it on the porch. Start over. Don't do it wrong, and not fix it.


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

chicken crap is OK but cow manure can cause spikes.
round gravel is not something I'm a fan of because it doesn't contain light materials well. think golf balls in a bucket and all the open space in between.

others have gotten the soil rather than the potting mix (most by mistake) and the water parameters settled out in a couple weeks and things went fine after that.

patience don't break anything LOL


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## Brian10962001 (Dec 6, 2011)

I used the brown bag Organic potting mix, it says right in the ingredients it contains a wetting agent and is 50% Sphagnum peat moss. Do you possibly have the images switched around? The weird thing is it was that very same brown bag shown is what I saw recommended everywhere. That or Scotts organic (isn't Miracle Gro also Scotts just different branding)?


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## Dragonfish (Apr 28, 2011)

Thats very odd, I started a tank last week using the Organic potting mix and the only thing in it is dirt and sticks. I don't have any moss and there is no mention of wetting agent anywhere on the bag.


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## Brian10962001 (Dec 6, 2011)

Here's the bag and the tag. Maybe they're trying to make it sound like it's as good or better than their regular soil that contains the pellets of fertilizer? There's a good chance "organic wetting agent" is a sales pitch. In any event it's in my tank, I probably should have pulled the sticks and such, they leaked some tannins but I'm not going to worry about it now. I'm picking up some plants tonight to start it off.


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## Brian10962001 (Dec 6, 2011)

Well she's full, settled, tannic, and has a big bunch of super healthy Anacharis floating. I picked up a big brown cryt, a nice Anubias (unknown type, it has long pointed leaves), a little Anubias nana, some dwarf sagittaria, a good looking pair of Java Ferns, and a bunch of water sprites that looked decent in the tank but are spotted all over with algae  All but one bunch of Anacharis are floating in an isolation bucket with some ick treatment and some epsom salt. I swore i would never do Anacharis again after the way my last bunch melted but these things looked ridiculously healthy and way bigger/fuller than the old batch. I'm keeping this tank at 76 degrees and have a little aquatech HOB filter going with the charcoal in the filter to try and pull some of the tannins.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

You need more stem plants. Wisteria is the easiest to find. Try Petco and Pet Smart. Note only a few Pet Smart stores carry plants in water so call first.

Lights are the engine. You haven't mentioned your light and time it is on. That is more likely the problem.


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## Brian10962001 (Dec 6, 2011)

My lights run from 6:30am to 6pm, what problem do you mean? The water is tanic because I didn't remove the wood chunks from the potting mix, entirely my fault :icon_conf. I ordered a bag of Pennyword from a guy in Illinois from the swap n shop board, it should be here soon. 

I purchased one bunch of Water Sprites, but when I got it home it looked like CRAP. It looked great when all I could see was the new growth poking out, but its got melted stems and is just in dire shape. Had I looked it over more carefully there's no way I would have purchased it. I pulled the new growth and it's floating in my 10 gallon with CO2 and ferts right now. I used all the stems I could salvage, wrapped them in the wool that came with the Sag, and sunk it in my 20 gallon to see if I can't coax some decent new growth. 

In the new 10 gallon I split up and planted the crypts, split up and planted the Sag, and anchored the Anacharis in the substrate. It's stilll dark, but it's slowly coming around. The tank is divided so water flow is a bit slow to the two side tanks.


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

Water Sprite damages easy but rebounds so if any of it is green give it a chance. 
Tannins whether you screen the bigger stuff out or not still happens for awhile but fades with each water change.

Heavy plant coverage, (lots of rooted plants) along with floaters is how I start my tanks. Like Hilde posted light is what drives plant growth so it drives algae too. How much light you provide and the duration is important on any planted tank.
Low light I'll go longer but with descent light energy I stay at 8hrs or less each day.

hope the tank settles in for you.


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## Brian10962001 (Dec 6, 2011)

I may be fooling myself but these 15 watt "aquarium/plant" bulbs just don't look like they have much light intensity. My 10 gallon is now on a 9.5 hour a day schedule (it's a pair of 12 watt edison style CFL's). I was getting algae growth despite the Flourish Excel, I dropped the light on that tank and the algae is less of an issue, plus the plants seemed to like it. I'm considering taking this bulb back and swapping it for a 15 watt daylight bulb.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Brian10962001 said:


> I dropped the light on that tank and the algae is less of an issue, plus the plants seemed to like it. I'm considering taking this bulb back and swapping it for a 15 watt daylight bulb.


Well obvious there is an imbalance of light and Co2 that is causing your algae problems. 

You can't return a used bulb for a new bulb.

The human eye sees mostly sees light around 5500K. Plant chlorophyll absorbs light at wavelengths of 300 to 700 nm (6400 a good balance) More info here


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## Brian10962001 (Dec 6, 2011)

Hilde said:


> Well obvious there is an imbalance of light and Co2 that is causing your algae problems.
> 
> You can't return a used bulb for a new bulb.
> 
> The human eye sees mostly sees light around 5500K. Plant chlorophyll absorbs light at wavelengths of 300 to 700 nm (6400 a good balance) More info here


Are you trying to be rude? I have already found the balance in my other 10 gallon that isn't a Walstad. It has a DIY Co2, went from 12 to 9.5 hours, and it gets Flourish Excel now. Plus it was very early in the cycle. Thank you for the link, I'm aware of most of this but it's good material to read over again. I really feel that these "aquarium/plant" ge bulbs are just an old style tube that was made to make plants and aquariums look good. I've been using the 6500k Daylight bulbs in my fixtures, and I just think that will be a better fit all around.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Brian10962001 said:


> I my other 10 gallon that isn't a Walstad. It has a DIY Co2, went from 12 to 9.5 hours, and it gets Flourish Excel now. Plus it was very early in the cycle. Thank you for the link, I'm aware of most.


That sounds a bit over kill with Co2 additive. Most whom have DIY Co2 don't use Excel.

Aquarium lights are usually on max 10hrs. I am doing a siesta period with my lights. Since I have done this don't have problems with BBA. I have my lights on 4hrs/ off 3hrs/ on 4hr

Siesta Period is good for allowing more CO2 from the substrate to build-up in the water, helping the plants during the second half of the photoperiod. Diana Walstad


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## Brian10962001 (Dec 6, 2011)

Hilde said:


> That sounds a bit over kill with Co2 additive. Most whom have DIY Co2 don't use Excel.
> 
> Aquarium lights are usually on max 10hrs. I am doing a siesta period with my lights. Since I have done this don't have problems with BBA. I have my lights on 4hrs/ off 3hrs/ on 4hr
> 
> Siesta Period is good for allowing more CO2 from the substrate to build-up in the water, helping the plants during the second half of the photoperiod. Diana Walstad


I've never heard of Siesta period, but oddly enough that's almost exactly how my lights are set now! I got tired of them going off as soon as I got home from work, so I timed them to come on in the morning and go off around noon (very few windows, so sunlight wasn't an issue). I'll look into that, I know the plants really reacted to the time change. Before that they were just on from 6am to 6pm. Now it's 6am to 11am then back on at 3pm for the rest of the time. 

The Excel I bought before I heard about DIY Co2 setups so I've just been using it, plus I have a 20 gallon with no Co2 yet that I use it in. I have 2 pics of my 10 gallon regular tank in my sig, I'll take another one in the next few days. The Wisteria has gone crazy in there, as has the Anubias. I'll have pics of my 20 gallon and the new tank soon as well, the new tank is looking alright, I did a 50% water change last night and pulled one of the Anacharis out of the substrate to let it float (this broke up the current from the filter very well).


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Brian10962001 said:


> The Excel I bought before I heard about DIY Co2 setups so I've just been using it, plus I have a 20 gallon with no Co2 yet that I use it in. I have 2 pics of my 10 gallon regular tank in my sig. I'll have pics of my 20 gallon and the new tank soon as well


Umm! Sounds like you have the collectorist bug. So that is 1 20G and 2 10G tanks that you have? Dirt in the other tanks?


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## 1aqumfish (Apr 19, 2009)

My first tank with the MGOCPS I did not sift it and it eventually stopped leaching the tannins, just keep up the water changes. You can vacuum out any soil on top of the cap.

Tony


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## Brian10962001 (Dec 6, 2011)

Hilde said:


> Umm! Sounds like you have the collectorist bug. So that is 1 20G and 2 10G tanks that you have? Dirt in the other tanks?


Yes, 1 - 20, 2 - 10s, a couple 1 gallon vase tanks, etc. There's no dirt in the 20 long or the other 10 gallon. The closest I've came to doing this type of setup before was in an isolation tank I made a while back. I used Laterite and Vermiculite under gravel and planted a strand of Bacopa in it. I put a pic of it up in my tank collection.


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## Brian10962001 (Dec 6, 2011)

I typed an updated and tried sending it in last week but the forum kept booting me out. Anyways here it is a bit later than expected.

The tank has gone through 4 BIG (70% or more) water changes. I'm really glad I left the cord with the heater plugged into it on top of the stand where it's easy to access! The water I'm pulling is DARK. I fed some of this black water to the big snake plant I have in my living room and I swear it grew overnight roud: The soil looks completely different now. It's dark black and doesn't look grainy. When I vac the gravel and plant things I'm no longer getting pieces of soil sucked up. One thing that does concern me is that every time I plant I get quite a lot of gas bubbles. They don't smell like sulphur or sewage so I'm hoping it's Co2 being released. I picked up some trumpet snails to hopefully fix this issue.

I've pulled all of the anacharis out of one section and replaced it with some wild looking Wisteria (grown very much out of the water). A lot of the other anacharis is turning brown in sections, but it's shooting out deep green new growth like mad. The Crypts look excellent with great color and seem to be doing well. The Dwarf Sag is bi polar! One plant has exploded and shot across the top of it's section, the other two have melted :icon_conf I'm not sure what to make of that, but I will replace it if it doesn't come back soon. I'm not a big fan of it anyways considering how massive it grew in the foreground. The Anubias and Java Fern seem to be settled in and have good color, but no noticeable growth yet. 

Filter is still running with carbon in place, I put a baby betta and a full grown betta in the tank but the full grown one died of parasites he had when I purchased him, and the baby betta decided it would rather live outside of the tank! I've left fish out of it after this. The only live occupant aside from the plants is a lonely pond snail I see cruising the bottom. I'll have some more pics soon. The tank looks really neat with the third section planted different than the other two, I think I might work with that a bit more.


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## 1aqumfish (Apr 19, 2009)

Just keep doing the water changes and let it run in. The gas bubbles will stop after a while. If they smell like dirt not like rotten eggs it will be fine. Just monitor for ammonia before you put in any more fish.


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## Brian10962001 (Dec 6, 2011)

It honestly has no odor. Even the dirt I put in didn't smell very earthy, next time I will mix the MGO with some basic "100% potting soil" which is just a dark, thick earth with lots of grey clay in it. That and I will take the time to mineralize it. I have some Laterite and Vermiculite mixed in with this MGO. I started rooting all of my plant cuttings in just Laterite and Vermiculite and WOW! The root systems that I'm getting are super healthy. I doubt I'll ever root my cuttings in peat moss/sand again roud:

The tank now has occupants! I picked up six ghost shrimp and placed them in the far left chamber. That chamber has a bunch of browning anacharis in it, so it should be getting a nice infusoria culture going. They've been in there for 48 hours and seem happy as can be. It gave me a nice excuse to keep the anacharis in that chamber and with the tanks temp somewhat low at 75 it seems like it fell into place pretty well. I'm holding off putting my dragon scale plakat betta in there until I'm certain everything is leveled off. The tannins are leaching way slower now, it still has that "blackwater" look, but I kind of doubt I'll ever get it to look quite as clear as a low tech tank. I'm good with that, a bit of tannins adds depth to the tank. I also have a 2 gallon NO tech tank right now that has java fern, and anubias tied to a nice hunk of drift wood with a single female betta in there. That tank looks like it's stopped leaching as bad too. I'll post up some pics of it soon.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I still get bubbles in my MG tanks a year in.


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## Jaguar (Oct 13, 2011)

See, and I haven't seen a single bubble from my MG tanks! Lots of tannins in the one I didn't sift, though. I sifted the crap out of my 10g's dirt, so it was really only dirt and very fine organic materials, and that one hasn't had tannins or bubbles or any problems for that matter. I compare the dirt to plant steroids


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