# 75 gallon dwarf cichlids and Rainbows (Rams have eggs!)



## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Picking up the rack tomorrow morning and getting going on the second 75 gallon. I've got a good amount of wood and I'm picking up a little more tomorrow. Also going to pick up some black lava rock to grow fissidens and buces on. For now here's the wood I'm working with. The one piece is huge








I may just pick up whatever else I need tomorrow and deal with the consequences. I'm going to put a cycled AC70 on it from my 150 so I can add fish immediately giving my new syno's a grow out


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## mbkemp (Dec 15, 2016)

I can't wait to see this


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Putting together the rack now. Have to drain the 75 and take all the rocks out and transfer it to the bottom shelf. The new one will go on top and I have room for 4 -10 gallon growouts on the bottom. 
Got an AC70 and I'm going to swap media from one of my established 70's. I'll add another filter later on once I've got a light figured out. Hopefully 1 group of Syno's will arrive today and be comfortable in the tank by tomorrow. Another 5 are arriving next week. 
Any.suggestions as to what to start stocking first? Maybe a couple Bolivians? I could maybe do Apisto's at the same time. It will take a while to get all the Rainbows sourced and budgeted in. I want to have a big 8 foot tank in my office when I open my own practice and I'm thinking a healthy mature group of Rainbows and some cool dwarf cichlids would keep the kids entertained. Everyone does saltwater... and its super cool.. but I think a mature planted tank could be just as impressive.


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## Dman911 (Nov 24, 2016)

The Dude1 said:


> Putting together the rack now. Have to drain the 75 and take all the rocks out and transfer it to the bottom shelf. The new one will go on top and I have room for 4 -10 gallon growouts on the bottom.
> Got an AC70 and I'm going to swap media from one of my established 70's. I'll add another filter later on once I've got a light figured out. Hopefully 1 group of Syno's will arrive today and be comfortable in the tank by tomorrow. Another 5 are arriving next week.
> Any.suggestions as to what to start stocking first? Maybe a couple Bolivians? I could maybe do Apisto's at the same time. It will take a while to get all the Rainbows sourced and budgeted in. I want to have a big 8 foot tank in my office when I open my own practice and I'm thinking a healthy mature group of Rainbows and some cool dwarf cichlids would keep the kids entertained. Everyone does saltwater... and its super cool.. but I think a mature planted tank could be just as impressive.


It may be a good idea to put something under those legs. That's a lot of weight to have on 4 tiny spots on the floor. Just a thought but I'm not saying it will be an issue but rather it may be.

Dan


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Dman911 said:


> It may be a good idea to put something under those legs. That's a lot of weight to have on 4 tiny spots on the floor. Just a thought but I'm not saying it will be an issue but rather it may be.
> 
> Dan


That's not a bad idea
Any tips on an air pump that can comfortably run sponge filters in 4 10 gallon tanks? Would one rated at 50 gallons work or more? That will be the only filters in them


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## Dman911 (Nov 24, 2016)

I use a fluval Q2 and it would have no problems doing 4 10gal tanks with sponge filters. For the cost there are also other options that will run many more than 4 tanks for a reasonable price like https://www.amazon.com/EcoPlus-Comm...ncoding=UTF8&refRID=DG173MYJ7W8CNX6QA6ZH&th=1 but I have never used them and would assume they would probably be a bit noisy if that is a concern. I also could not comment on the quality or life expectancy. I am very happy with the Q2 and it is adjustable. I use it to power my underwater waterfall and have had 2 sponge filters and a 1 gallon container of saltwater mixing at the same time while I was setting up stuff for shrimp breeding.

Dan


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

That Fluval looks perfect. I'll pick one up. Is this what I would need to split it to the 4 tanks?
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01N...=MP0D3BHJP69GRT5ESB5M&dpPl=1&dpID=61mVAnsmCvL

Bump: 
Measured out the rack, but one of the shelves has to be right in the middle to "stack" the two parts. I would prefer the frame rails to be single 6 foot rails, but that was not available in this style and rating. The 10's will go on top. I'll switch the tanks over tonight after the gym.


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## Dman911 (Nov 24, 2016)

The Dude1 said:


> That Fluval looks perfect. I'll pick one up. Is this what I would need to split it to the 4 tanks?
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01N...=MP0D3BHJP69GRT5ESB5M&dpPl=1&dpID=61mVAnsmCvL


Never used that one in particular but pretty much any manifold will do. I use penn plex https://www.amazon.com/Plastic-4-Way-Control-Aquarium-Accessories/dp/B0026XWLQA and never had an issue with them. I have used other cheap plastic ones that have been garbage and often leak. Cheap check valves can really restrict air flow and I don't use them on my pumps because I'm to cheap to buy decent ones. I don't recommend not using them but if you hook it up and get less than desirable airflow that's the first place you should look.

Dan


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## Dman911 (Nov 24, 2016)

Just wanted to add incase you were unware that when the diaphragm(s) on these pumps fail you can but a repair/replacement kit for a fraction of buying a replacement pump. I used to fix quite a few elite air pumps before I went to one central pump when I was breeding. 

Q1, Q2 Air Pump Repair Module | A18832 | Replacement Parts | Fluval

Dan


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## mbkemp (Dec 15, 2016)

I love Bolivian rams. Some cockatoo's with them might work in a big tank. I tried borelli and that did not. Let it season a little.



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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I feel terrible. Last night was awful. After the gym I got to work. I ended up having to remove everything from the tank to move it... including fish... all I had was a 3 gallon bucket so I tried to do I quickly... then realized that there wasnt enough room for me to get into the bottom tank... and fit filters etc... then once I figured that out the wife was getting irritated with the aquarium supplies in her bathroom... started pumping water back into the tank and basically just dumped the fish back in and started reworking the rack and moving out the old furniture.... then the dog got out... once I convinced her to come back in and got the stands to the garage every one of the fish was dead... no dechlorinator... I'm guessing... my water comes from a well, but what else could it be?? They were dead in 10 minutes... I feel awful... 
I just stopped and I'm going to take a break. Hopefully I can get the room situated today and get the second tank on the rack and clean up the room... but I am stumped... I haven't used dechlorinator in well over a year and never an issue... 
There's alot more to doing a rack than just setting one tank above the other I am learning.


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## mbkemp (Dec 15, 2016)

I did something similar last week. Tragic!! We learn from our mistakes and get better


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## Dman911 (Nov 24, 2016)

Your well has chlorine/chloramines? It could be several things and more than likely not a single cause. Lack of oxygen, big change in temp and overall stress would come to mind first. I have made similar mistakes over the years and I usually attribute this to my lack of patience which has become much better in the last 10 years. Use this as a chance to learn and don't beat yourself up over it. Yes there was loss of life but it was not intentional and you have gained a lesson out of it. If I sound a little uncaring its probably because I am a little desensitized as over the years of breeding and culling euthanizing fish when needed has probably influenced my views. 

Dan


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Dman911;1029for2633 said:


> Your well has chlorine/chloramines? It could be several things and more than likely not a single cause. Lack of oxygen, big change in temp and overall stress would come to mind first. I have made similar mistakes over the years and I usually attribute this to my lack of patience which has become much better in the last 10 years. Use this as a chance to learn and don't beat yourself up over it. Yes there was loss of life but it was not intentional and you have gained a lesson out of it. If I sound a little uncaring its probably because I am a little desensitized as over the years of breeding and culling euthanizing fish when needed has probably influenced my views.
> 
> Dan


This has me puzzled as well... then inwas reading Greggz thread... again... and noticed the mention of an ammonia spike when breaking down and moving an established tank... is that what happened?? Tank has been set up with no gravel / sand disturbance for about 18 months... 
If so how long until it is safe to restock? I'm going to pick up more Prime tonight, but I'm not sure what I'm dealing with. I guess I will test when I get home. Hadn't even considered this. I'm hoping to finish getting this tank running and planted so I can get the other tank on top and start working on my tanks together.. since I'm starting over both will now be HEAVILY planted and at last one large Red sword. Is there one that you recommend? 
There will be no plant eaters... no Pleco's, no Congo Tetras... 
For the "wood" tank I'm thinking Bolivians, Apisto Caucatoides, 4 species of Rainbows and what bottom dweller? I'd love loaches. Any that don't touch the plants?


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## Dman911 (Nov 24, 2016)

The Dude1 said:


> This has me puzzled as well... then inwas reading Greggz thread... again... and noticed the mention of an ammonia spike when breaking down and moving an established tank... is that what happened?? Tank has been set up with no gravel / sand disturbance for about 18 months...
> If so how long until it is safe to restock? I'm going to pick up more Prime tonight, but I'm not sure what I'm dealing with. I guess I will test when I get home. Hadn't even considered this. I'm hoping to finish getting this tank running and planted so I can get the other tank on top and start working on my tanks together.. since I'm starting over both will now be HEAVILY planted and at last one large Red sword. Is there one that you recommend?
> There will be no plant eaters... no Pleco's, no Congo Tetras...
> For the "wood" tank I'm thinking Bolivians, Apisto Caucatoides, 4 species of Rainbows and what bottom dweller? I'd love loaches. Any that don't touch the plants?


Definitely possible that could be the cause. Possibly huge spike in nitrogen or big release of H2S from substrate disturbance. Either way I would not add fish to the tank until you have tested parameters are can verify they are safe. Do you have a test kit by chance?

Added: H2S would explain the extremely fast death rate but again no way to be sure. Did you notice a rotten egg smell at all?

Dan


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Dman911 said:


> Definitely possible that could be the cause. Possibly huge spike in nitrogen or big release of H2S from substrate disturbance. Either way I would not add fish to the tank until you have tested parameters are can verify they are safe. Do you have a test kit by chance?
> 
> Added: H2S would explain the extremely fast death rate but again no way to be sure. Did you notice a rotten egg smell at all?
> 
> Dan


Yes it did. Not as bad as when I had potting soil, but very noticeable 
I have a test kit


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

ended up finding another lfs today. It was simply incredible. Planted tanks all over. If I had to guess I would say maybe a thousand gallons of water filled with nothing but plants in addition two several sections of tissue cultured plants. I picked up several types of Crips some Corkscrew Val's some swords and pretty much everything I wanted except for the compacta... I also picked up seven synodontis multipunctatus and one synodontis green leopard hybrid. my six synodontis petricola should arrive today or tomorrow


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

Synodontis multipunctatus will grow to seven inches(easily) and keeping rooted plant's in place could be problematic due to the fishes habit of rooting around the substrate in search of food's.
The Synodontis petricola stay much smaller, and would create less issues IME.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

roadmaster said:


> Synodontis multipunctatus will grow to seven inches(easily) and keeping rooted plant's in place could be problematic due to the fishes habit of rooting around the substrate in search of food's.
> The Synodontis petricola stay much smaller, and would create less issues IME.


I didn't know that... they will only be in this tank until they are large enough to go in my 150 Peacock and Hap tank. It's just a growout for them


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

They are all out checking out the new tank. I think it will look good once stuff grows in a bit. I may do some moss on some of the rocks and probably a little more java moss on the left side on top of those stones. Water is still a little cloudy from the addition of more PFS. I'll probably start working on the top tank which will be the "wood" tank tonight and figure out hardscape. I know if like some Blyxa as well as a piece of wood with a good amount of Buces. Definitely some of that hygro compacta... They also had a very deep red rotala at the store that I couldn't stop looking at. I'm going to start making my plants list today.
You can now see some of the silicone from where I affixed the old 3d background... the vals should hire that quickly.
I've also decided given the number and cost of my various hobbies that these two tanks will be the recipients of a pressurized system rather than the 150 which is inhabited by the plant munching African cichlids. Probably just use 2 of the long atomizers from GLA as I really don't want to get any additional canisters.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Thus far I have
Crypt Lutea
Crypt Lucens
Crypt Balansae
Crypt Becketti
Corkscrew Vals
Java Fern
Sagittaria Subulata
and some Monte Carlo 
The previous occupants ate the fissidins overnight.
I have 6 or 7 Syno Multi's
1 Syno green leopard hybrid
and I should receive the other 6 Syno petricola (probably lucipinnis) today

Once the Syno's reach 2.5" to 3" they will all go into the 150... unless I try my hand at breeding some of the lucipinnis.
I also added some osmocote root tabs under nearly every plant. No changing things now LOL!

Bump: Already eating like little pigs


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I'm thinking that I'm going to zip tie the 2 surge protectors to the bottom of the shelf that the top tank rests on to better conceal them. I'm pretty happy with it... I can get all the way into both tanks for planting or whatever and I can get to and service all of the equipment.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

What do you guys think? 2 different kinds of wood, but I like the piece on the right and all the stuff on the left is new.. I figure it will blend once it grows in. I'm not sure how to get it all to fit together.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I like this alot better


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

For the new tank I want
Blyxa Japonica 
Crypt Lucens 
Crypt Parva
That reddish purple rotala macandra or something like that?
The hygrophila corymbosa kompacta
Fissidens on the branches
Various buces on the mopani 
Maybe java fern windolev around the base of the tall branch? 
I'm going to get a C02 system together but for now will I be able to grow those on large doses on metricide?
Also looking for fixtures. I was thinking 2 of the Beamswork or 2 of the Satellite Freshwater. Opinions? Had very poor results with Finnex so they are not going to be considered.


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## Dman911 (Nov 24, 2016)

When I was breeding cuckoo cats (synodontis multipunctatus) I used electric yellow's as the host breeding group for them because they were my most prolific group even though they hail from different lakes. They are a parasite breeder and extremely enjoyable to watch. I found with them as with most Africans keeping plants rooted is no easy task with them as @roadmaster suggested. They will appreciate a rocky tank with caves and a PH on the higher side. Beautiful fish and probably one of if not my favorite of all Africans.

Dan


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I actually have a breeding pair of yellow labs in there. None of the fry ever make it, but it would be cool!! I may transfer them into the big tank and keep the lucipinnis in the 75 and breed them. I'm really enjoying them


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Do you guys think 2 of these 48" Beamswork LED fixtures would be enough light? 
Specs
48" EA 120 54x - 2600 lumen 45x 6500K, 9x Actinic


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I found a really good deal on some dual T8 black shop lights. $15 a piece and $30 for a 12 pack of 6500k bulbs. I probably could've gotten 2 of those Beamswork Fixtures, but these are cheap tried and true and I can toss in an 8 or 10k bulbs and a red "plant" bulb to get the colors I want. For now I'm just going to run the AC70 on there and pick up one of the dual sunsun circulation pumps. Ive got one on the other 75 and that thing moves some water. Probably had it for 6-7 months and it still works great... and it was like $13.. so tomorrow I'm going to swing by that new LFS and pick up some crypts and stuff that will do alright without C02 for a bit. It will probably take me a month to squirrel away the cash for the regulator and stuff. I'm going to try to wait until I have some decent plant mass in there and I'm positive everything is good before I start adding fish. I want a couple Buce grow areas set up too and I want them to be able to get situated.
Here is what I'm thinking for stock.. 
I'll probably start out with some Amano shrimp, nerites, and maybe a few Oto's. I'd like to get some RCS in there, but I'm going to set up little tank for them again and I'll get a colony in here going with culls. 
Pair of Apisto Caucatoides triple red 
Pair of Bolivian Rams 
4 groups of 4 Rainbows. 
Millennium
Turquoise 
Bosemani 
Goyder River
I'd also like some loaches.. maybe a group of 5 Botia. 

The bottom tank will be nothing but grow out for the syno's for now. If I'm able to distinguish the Multi's from the lucipinnis I will add the Multi's to the display tank that has a breeding pair of yellow labs. I'll keep the lucipinnis in that tank and see how breeding goes. I'm thinking I may want some dwarf cichlids and some cardinals maybe since the lucipinnis will be breeding in the "breeding caves" I shouldn't have much problem with the others getting to their eggs... they won't even be able to get to them lol


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I am getting there!! Picked up some hygro corymbosa compact, rotala macandra, crypt Parva, crypt Lucens or lutea?? The smaller one... I still need to pick out the moss I'll use and two types of bucephelandra. I also ordered some Seachem Potassium as I think that is the cause of my constantly dying java ferns and also some iron. I'll switch to dry ferts for next time. I also ordered another dual sunsun circulation pump. I also picked up 2 super nice Bolivian Rams. I noted that the store has LITERALLY every rainbow species that I want and they get them from a well known local fish farm. 
I'm going to see how this week goes and decide on what I pick up next. I'd really like to get the C02 setup, but I don't think it's in the cards just yet. The 2 Dual bulb T8 fixtures look great. May pick up a 3rd at $15 so I can really push the C02. I'm going to see how the 4 T8's perform. Anyone have any insight into these rated old school lighting solutions lol?? Will I need 6 T8 bulbs?


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I think I may pick up a 3rd T8 fixture. From what I'm reading the macandra needs higher light and hopefully with 6 T8's and heavy metricide I can keep it alive until I get a regulator.
Anybody with experience with Rotala Macandra? Anyone know of something similair looking that will be more forgiving? The Ammania Bonsai is really pretty


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## mbkemp (Dec 15, 2016)

I am trying to learn this plant right now. I've had some for about a month. Low kno3 and likes iron. I think mine is in too much flow. I don't know if anything similar that is more forgiving


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Added a bad of Floramax as the substrate wasn't deep enough in some areas. I may need one more. I also added some Bacopa Caroliniana. I also picked up a third dual T8 fixture. I would think 6 32w T8's would give me all the light I need. The water is a little cloudy from adding the substrate. I'll level it out tomorrow and add some root tabs.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I would like the front left and middle of the tank to fill in with crypts. I have the Bacopa Caroliniana and rotala macandra behind the driftwood on that side. 
I'm thinking lobelia cardinalis dwarf would look good in front of the driftwood on the right and on the side. Im thinking of using windolev at the base of the large branches and then some bucephelandra along the lower portions of mopani. I havent decided on what im going to use behind the large branches... maybe bolbitus?? I just havent been having much luck with bolbitus... I definitely don't want a stem back there that will require trimming and may lose the lower leaves...


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I added the circulation pump and there is alot of movement now. A couple of the stems were uprooted on the other side. The Rams don't seem to be eating. The larger eats, but spits it out.. the smaller isn't interested. I've been spot feeding bloodworms to entice the smaller one to eat. They are never more than a couple inches from each other. Hopefully they start eating soon. I'm thinking the tank temp might be an issue. There is no heater on this one... and the house is at 70... 69 at night. Probably try to pick one up today.
I think I also need another bag of Floramax for the back area with the stems

Bump:


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Any ideas if this is something to worry about? Looks like a raw spot... it's on both sides and perfectly symmetrical. 
I'm thinking of adding some clean up helpers to help keep things in check while the tank matures and plants fill in. I was thinking of 6 Oto's and 6 Amano shrimp. Maybe some nerites. I also added a couple Buces from another tank that weren't loaded with hair algae.

Bump: Added some lobelia cardinalis on the right side as well as the Buces

I'm having to cut down on the lighting period for the lower tank... algae is coming in pretty strong. It's difficult to balance light with no CO2. 
Please don't mind the baby chandelier... haven't changed it out as my wife and I are arguing about a fan in that room.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

The smaller one died... I'm not sure what happened. The other guy is super healthy and I swear he looks lonely. I'm thinking about hitting up the LFS tomorrow and picking up 3 or 4 more. Maybe some more crypt lucens. Maybe some oto's, Amano shrimp and nerites... I guess there is no harm in waiting, but I really enjoy that tank and I want some inhabitants. I'm thinking about picking up some larger plants from the SNS to stuff in there. I keep going back and forth on the bolbitus for this tank. Ive got a large portion in the 11.4 that I'm hoping will recover as it didn't do well in the 150 as one of the large stones blocked most of the light. 

I know having some good plant mass will be integral to the success of multiple breeding pairs (I hope) but do you guys think I would be able to keep a breeding pair of apisto's and a breeding pair of Bolivian Rams in this 75 with the Rainbows? I don't think I can keep loaches in this tank as the Cichlids probably couldnt defend the fry from them. 

3-4 Bolivian Rams
Pair of Apisto Caucatoides
4 Millenium Rainbows
4 Turquoise Rainbows
4 Goyder River
4 Bosemani
6-8 Otos
6-10 Amano Shrimp
2-3 Nerites

I'm going to start up another RCS colony soon so Ill add the culls to this tank in large numbers to try and get a colony going.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Big Exam tomorrow. Working on the tanks helps me stay in control. I went to the LFS in Tampa this morning before I started studying. I've always loved the looks of Emperor Tetras just never seen them in a store. They had a 3 for $8 thing going so I got 6... unfortunately one was dead by the time I got home.. like 15 minutes... they are going to take care of it tomorrow so that's cool. I also got their last 2 Bolivian Rams. I was super tempted to get some Goyder River Rainbows, but there were also red Rainbows and another type in the tank. All were juvenile and other than one having a "metallic" look they were grey and drab. They were between $12 and $16 a piece. I decided to wait and let the tank fill in a bit and finish off the plant stock list. Picked up 3 bunches of some kind of rotala I think?? Also got 2 more pots of crypt Parva and a massive anubias. I pretty much have the rotala macandra, this new stem (rotala ovalis?)and the Bacopa Caroliniana mixed in the back. 
I've got the lobelia cardinalis on the right side and the hygro compacta in the center between the wood. It should look really nice when it fill is and there shouldn't be too much trimming. It's going to be a couple weeks before I can get the C02 setup together. Picking up a PPS Pro package of ferts when the checks clear. Most of the plants already have osmocote root tabs under them. 

Let me know what you think? I want to get some Buce clumps on the exposed wood and either fissidins or some flame moss on some ofnthe branches especially underneath the anubias. I think that would look killer. I'm going for the nicely trimmed jungle look. I love Burr, Greggz, and Immortals tanks but that is too precise and I'm not ready for the inevitable failures along the way just yet.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Well... one of the 2 NEW Bolivian Rams has the same signs as the last one. White stringy poop, labored breathing, emaciated stomach. All of the fish were new so I didn't quarantine. I remember having similar luck with Bolivian Rams before.. I don't get it. Either way I'm not playing Doctor and medicating the whole tank and risking killing everything... so I will let him / her be and hope she makes it. I really would like to end up with a pair anyway, but losing 2 in a week stings. I'm not the kind of person that expects a mom and pop fish store to eat it... normally. Yesterday one of the emperor tetras was dead when I took the bag out of the car at home. They told me to swing back by and they would give me another. They are like 35 minutes away... via interstate. So I went after my exam. In looking at the Rainbows it appeared that the males for the Millenium and Goyder River were cherry picked. There was one fish that kept catching my eye... he would dart around displaying and flash these gorgeous peacock like fins... So I got that male and 2 female pseudomogil furcatus. I know they like larger groups, but at $9 a piece I wanted to make sure I wanted them. So Ive got those 3 and a total of 6 Emperor tetras. It appears that the male has cast the other 2 males into the upper corners of the tank... amazing... a 1.5" fish claiming an entire 75 gallon. So I'm hoping to pick up another 10 of those and then maybe 8 more Furcata Rainbows. 

I'm the coming weeks Id like to add 6 Otos and 6 Amano shrimp. Havent decided which Rainbows to go with yet. I'm going to take my time and see what catches my eye.


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## lisals (Jun 21, 2017)

One of many things that does stink about this hobby. You never know what's going to cause new fish stress and if that stress is going to kill them. Hope it pulls through for you though.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

lisals said:


> One of many things that does stink about this hobby. You never know what's going to cause new fish stress and if that stress is going to kill them. Hope it pulls through for you though.


So this morning one of the emperor's was dead on the circulation pump and a second had a patch of fungus. I did a 60% water change and suddenly everyone looks happier and healthier. All 3 Rams ate this morning and it looked like everyone else did. I really dig the Furcata's but I don't know why. They are small and female guppy like except for the males... when they flash... but when they flash... wow... and those big blue eyes... So I checked a couple local places and no luck on any front. So Mika and I did the only reasonable thing... we drove to Tampa again LOL! Unfortunately they only had 2 Emperors... so I got them and they said they'd have a big group on Thursday. So know I've got 7... I think 10 more... I also got 4 more Furcata to give me some type of school as they are schooling group fish. Lastly no male Rainbows... as I was talking to the lady she mentioned that she had seen me in the store like 5 times in 2 weeks. She asked what I wanted... we started talking about rainbows and she said she probably won't get more in because she can't sell the females. Then she mentioned she had 1 male Millennium Rainbow in the back that she was considering for her own tank! She let me buy him and said she would likely get Bosemani in again when she could get larger specimens to check out there colors a little better. I gave her my number and asked her to get in any good males that she could find and I would buy them. Pretty cool. I know the fish farm that she gets them from, but they don't allow you to select just males.. have to buy a group... but they are very high quality. I'll probably look into my online options. Lastly I saw a gorgeous pair of Apisto's Caucatoides Triple Red... that weren't for sale. Again she said she would get me an equivalent pair if I would like. I've ordered them twice and both times they didn't make it. This was from a highly reputable Apistol breeder who refunded my money BOTH TIMES INCLUDING SHIPPING. It's just too far and if I do overnight I'm paying like $100 for 2 fish... but man am I excited to get them... definately going to breed them and set up a smaller tank for the fry. I'd never seen them in person... 
Lastly I picked up some whisker shrimp to help with cleanup and uneaten food until I get numbers up in the tank and suitable plant mass to stabilize the water parameters. 
Stock now is
3 Bolivian Rams
1 Millennium Rainbow 
7 Furcata Rainbowfish 
7 Emperor Tetras 
4 whisker shrimp

Plan to add
Pair of Apisto Caucatoides 
3-5 more Furcata Rainbows 
10 more Emperor Tetras 
Maybe 10 Nerite snails
6- 8 Oto's

I'll snap a pic when everyone settles in


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Looks like both new additions didn't make it. They were smaller than the others, but looked good in the store other than being the last 2 and not happy about only being a pair. The one with fungus made a full recovery after nothing but a water change. The Furcata's are one tough fish! They haven't skipped a beat! I read that they were delicate, but from my experience they are quite hardy. They have split into 2 schools with one dominant male per group. The Millenium Rainbow isn't happy being the only fish of his size. He appears to be sulking. I may check a couple local places today if I get a chance, but I don't want sub par stock and Ive hit all the good LFS places. Maybe Ill find a gem at a Petsmart that is out of the way. More than likely a Bosemani, but I would like a few of them anyway. I'm about to mix up breakfast. Bloodworms, NLS pellets, and Omego One flake. If the Rams eat today like yesterday I can confidently say they are out of the woods. Stems are growing quickly. Ill snap a shot in the next couple of days for sure. 
I need to replace the heater from the syno tank asap. You just don't see much in there unless its feeding time. I expected more action as there are 13 in there with nothing else. Perhaps they would be happier with cohabitants?


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I'm certain I'm having a mini cycle. Did a water change yesterday and got set up to do another today.. and the lights starting getting screwy... then one wouldn't turn on. I'm done trying to reinvent the wheel. Took everything off and returned all 3 fixtures and the case of bulbs. After thinking it through I decided to use the Marineland fixture and the Beamswork fixture from my 150 as well as a 36" Ray2 I had laying around. I can then use just the Beamswork for low light night viewing. My 150 is 5 feet by 2 feet and it just wasn't cutting it with 48" fixtures. I swapped them all on and I really like it. I think it will be more than adequate for high tech. I then bought an FSPEC and a DHL fixture from Amazon. They wont be here for a few days, but the bolbitus is obviously dying off. I'm not sure if its a high tech only thing, but I cant grow it. I'm going to transfer some to my little tank with DIY CO2 and glut to keep it alive until I can grow some in one of the 75 gallons once I get my CO2 system. I really wanted one of the fixture that does sunrise and sunsets and thunderstorms, but it would be about double the price. Ill get a custom set up built for a 300+ gallon once I finish Med School. Fish seem to be doing alright. I added another bag of bio media from my 150 to the AC70. With two bags of bio media I hope that ends the mini cycle, but we will see. I may hook up the 2217 from the lower 75 if I need to. Cycles suck


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I've got a 3 bulb T5 Catalina fixture on the bottom and the bulbs are probably 18 months old, but that sure doesn't look like 3 T5 bulbs...


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## lisals (Jun 21, 2017)

Your tanks are looking really great 
Really hope the added media helps.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

lisals said:


> Your tanks are looking really great
> Really hope the added media helps.


Thank you. Everytime I consider setting up a tank I dramatically underestimate the cost. I really had to get most of the stuff other than the tank. I haven't gotten close to where I want it to be stock and equipment wise. I'm going to force myself to wait at least 1 week with no losses before I purchase any fish. By then I should know my scholarship situation for next semester and I can get at least the CO2 and ferts setup. 10 more Emperors and maybe 5 more Furcata's to start. That should put the groups where I want them. I'm going to keep an eye out for some nice male Rainbows, but I'm not holding my breath. It would be great to find a place that carries good stock and would allow me to select males and that also carried some nice Apisto's. That would make the overnight shipping much easier to swallow. As it stands I'll probably wait for the LFS to bring some in for me. The Triple Red pair that they had in one of their planted display tanks was breathtaking. I would have given them $100 on the spot. 
The Apisto's will be the last to be added and Ill make sure to add some moss covered cichlid stones for them that I already have. I need to pick up some flame moss and get working on those. I'm going to rehome the puffer and the dwarf gourami and use the 11.4 as a fry rearing tank.


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## lisals (Jun 21, 2017)

You're in Florida right? I would think it would be easy to find some good LFSs there. Well.. if you're in or near the busier areas. Hopefully the place you've been going will get some nice ones in for you 
There's a LFS here that will do special orders for customers, but their tanks are a bit janky and not taken care of very well which is a shame.

You are right... I think a lot of folks underestimate how expensive all of this ends up being. And it is so damn hard to have patience!


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

lisals said:


> You're in Florida right? I would think it would be easy to find some good LFSs there. Well.. if you're in or near the busier areas. Hopefully the place you've been going will get some nice ones in for you
> There's a LFS here that will do special orders for customers, but their tanks are a bit janky and not taken care of very well which is a shame.
> 
> You are right... I think a lot of folks underestimate how expensive all of this ends up being. And it is so damn hard to have patience!


I think comparatively speaking there are a few here. Most are saltwater. The place in Tampa is almost 45 minutes away, but it is spectacular. 
Lost another Ram and a Furcata today. Ive done instant cycles on tanks many times before using established filters, but it just isn't happening this time. I'm done adding fish. At least until I get the CO2 system and by then the tank would have to be cycled. Doing another water change now. With the amount of media and plants I am astounded that I am having such problems. 
Good new is that one of the new lights will be here tomorrow for my 150.


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## lisals (Jun 21, 2017)

Ugh. I'm sorry you're losing so many fish. Probably is best that you don't add anymore right now until your tank gets sorted out. Frustrating when the old media bacteria isn't doing what it should lol. Maybe add a dose of Prime every day will help keep the remaining fish healthy.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

lisals said:


> Ugh. I'm sorry you're losing so many fish. Probably is best that you don't add anymore right now until your tank gets sorted out. Frustrating when the old media bacteria isn't doing what it should lol. Maybe add a dose of Prime every day will help keep the remaining fish healthy.


Ive been considering that. Right now I'm doing a water change one day, dose of Prime the next day, then water change the next, etc... I'm just completely dumbfounded that with all this media that I'm likely still having ammonia and / or nitrite. Plants are growing exceptionally well. 
I was making excuses trying to blame the losses on the store, but the Furcata's have been there for weeks and were in perfect health. The fact that one could not make it through is a good indicator of conditions. It these 2 Rams do alright I will be somewhat placated. I wanted a pair and more than a mated pair didn't work in a 75 for me previously. The Millenium Rainbow is eating like a pig, but the Rams are still passive. They seem to be eating a little here and there. I guess its fortunate that I wasn't able to buy the large schools all at once. If I only lose 1 Furcata and what... 3 Emperors... well and of course the 2 Rams... I guess that's not too terrible. 

I may bring some water samples to the store next week to ensure that ammonia and nitrite are at zero before I get the group of 10 Emperors. 
Any idea how much longer I should wait to add other fish for the biofilter to catch up? I don't know as much as I thought so any insight into that would be appreciated. 
Adding 10 Emperors 5 Furcata and 3 or 4 Rainbows may overwhelm the biofilter again


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Third Furcata Rainbow dead. Obviously I made a huge rookie mistake and overestimated the amount of bacteria in the set of bio material that I added to this tank originally. To make sure this doesn't happen again lets review the loss of life and cost.
2 Bolivian Rams @ $7 each 
3 Furcata Rainbows at $9 each
3 Emperor Tetras at $3 each
So a grand total of $50 completely thrown out the window by not using a test kit and thinking I could wing it.

Ive accepted total and complete failure and have moved my 2217 from the synodontis tank below to this tank. The synodontis tank still has the AC70 but has been setup for 3 years or more with the same substrate, rocks, etc. 
As I can not fit another HOB onto that tank due to its placement I will need to look into another canister. 

I'm still going to wait a week or more to ensure that I don't have some super cycle going or something else. As long as I havent lost any other fish I will add to the emperor tetra group and hopefully put an end to my losses on Friday.


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## mbkemp (Dec 15, 2016)

We all learn hard lessons. When in doubt test water, change water, test again


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

mbkemp said:


> We all learn hard lessons. When in doubt test water, change water, test again
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes. I feel very foolish. Ive been doing planted tanks for 10 years... I havent had to cycle a tank in years as I always have substantial media. It just didn't work this time and I didn't want to look at the circumstances objectively. I hope it wont happen again. Hopefully the remaining fish are healthy enough to make it and we can put this behind us.


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## mbkemp (Dec 15, 2016)

I feel ya. My second tank got me. Fortunately everything in it was hardy, prime a water changes and they all made it. If they live and we learn then the hobby gets stronger in my opinion


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## lisals (Jun 21, 2017)

I'd say once your tank seems stable for about a week, add in one group of fish at a time and give it a week or 2. Let the tank and new fish settle in. Get a test kit though.. at least just the ammonia and nitrite ones so you can be sure of what is going on with those 2.
I also would reduce feedings for a few days too... or maybe even for a week depending on how the tank is handling everything.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Lost another female Furcata. Everyone else seems pretty happy. Not buying fish is tough. To help I'm going to put the money I would spend into my secret squirrel regulator account so I should be able to pick that up in 2 weeks. I'm not buying anymore fish until the C02 is set up... I hope. I found an online retailer that has EVERYTHING I want... except they "try" to sex Rainbows... I don't want females I don't think. I would really like to have the Bolivians and Apisto's breed, but I'm not fooling myself about the Rainbows. We will see. Maybe I'll just do the Apisto's and Emperor tetras, but that's not really worth the overnight shipping


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Life has officially beaten me down. I go to school full time and had hoped to start Med School next fall. This semester is over in less than 2 weeks and I've maintained my 4.0 GPA. In the last several weeks my Mother learned that she has 3 tumors on her lung one of which is the size of a tangerine, 2 brain tumors, and a tumor wrapped around her carotid artery restricting blood flow. She did not share this information with me willingly. She was diagnosed with terminal cancer 24 years ago and miraculously beat it. She went in for surgery in Thursday. It went well, but she went into a fib Saturday. Yesterday at 4pm she had a massive stroke. They were able to remove 99% via surgery, but there is no information as to the degree of damage that it caused. She said that she never wanted to live after having a stroke... She and her husband have a substantial life style completely dependant on her income. I feel like I'm getting hammered from every end. If I could crawl into my aquarium I would do it. She got a little puppy a week ago to help her through the cancer treatment. I don't even know what I should hope for.. I'm just not ready to lose her. She is the youngest 60 you can imagine. She could easily pass for 45.
I need some kind of escape and I think this is likely this most positive outlet. I can't concentrate at the gym I can't concentrate on my studies... I've just lost my path. I think I may just do the PA program and get my Masters so I can start on my new career with a minimal amount of debt. I could finish my PhD while I'm working. I really wanted her to be there to see me earn the title of Doctor...
I ordered ferts today. Obviously it's something I had to do so I might as well start dosing now and get the hang of it. I'm thinking of starting with 1/2 EI due to my reduced plant mass and no CO2 right now.


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## mbkemp (Dec 15, 2016)

I am sorry to hear of your troubles. Praying for your mom and you


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## lisals (Jun 21, 2017)

Ugh, I'm sorry about your mom. That's rough. I hope she's gonna be ok.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Thank you, but the news was all bad. I may just buy the CO2 system now to give me something to focus on. They did brain scans and there is massive damage. She doesn't want to live like that. Her brain is also swelling so they want to remove a large portion of her skull to give it room. That's sounds like nothing but suffering for her and I will not do that. I am trying to distance myself from this so that I can make the right decision and not what I want.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Both of the remaining Rams were dead as well as another Emporer Tetra. I'm just going to let it go for a while and work on plants and CO2 systems. I figure in 30 days parameters will be stable. I think that they may have been too much damage to these fish during the initial stages. In 30 days or whenever the tank settles I'll do a group of 15-20 Emporer Tetras and the Apisto's from a well known distributor as well as Rainbows and whatever else I plan to add. I'll get them all at once to compensate for the overnight shipping cost.


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

The Dude1 said:


> Thank you, but the news was all bad. I may just buy the CO2 system now to give me something to focus on. They did brain scans and there is massive damage. She doesn't want to live like that. Her brain is also swelling so they want to remove a large portion of her skull to give it room. That's sounds like nothing but suffering for her and I will not do that. I am trying to distance myself from this so that I can make the right decision and not what I want.


Very sorry to hear all the news about your mom! This type of news is always tough to handle. Probably the toughest thing I have done in my 52 years is watch my dad pass - even though it was exactly what I was hoping for (long term illness which put a huge strain on my mom and the rest of the family). Prayers to you on making the right decision, regardless of what it is.


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## Ben Belton (Dec 12, 2008)

Wow... that is some crazy crap news. Sorry about your mom. I've been there myself. It's hard.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Thank you. She would not want to live like that. She was a beautiful woman and she was always the care giver. She did not want to be the receiver. I told them to take the tubes out at 4pm on July 5th. She stopped breathing at 1134 that night. She was surrounded by friends and family. Some of which drove 15 hours straight to be with her. I feel like im floating around aimlessly now. Hopefully we are able to finalize arrangements today so we can lay her to rest. Im trying to find some interest in things I used to enjoy, but I'm not there yet. We moved to a home 5 minutes from her in January of 2016 so I saw her a couple times a week and spoke to her several times a day. She gave me direction and strength. I feel like I'm floundering now


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

My Condolences.
Lost my own sainted mother six years ago and a kinder ,gentler soul, I have never known.
Lost a sister last month, and my brother is currently on ventilator after bypass surgery.
Were it not for the serenity I get from fishing, and piddling with my aquarium's well...


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## Dman911 (Nov 24, 2016)

The Dude1 said:


> Thank you. She would not want to live like that. She was a beautiful woman and she was always the care giver. She did not want to be the receiver. I told them to take the tubes out at 4pm on July 5th. She stopped breathing at 1134 that night. She was surrounded by friends and family. Some of which drove 15 hours straight to be with her. I feel like im floating around aimlessly now. Hopefully we are able to finalize arrangements today so we can lay her to rest. Im trying to find some interest in things I used to enjoy, but I'm not there yet. We moved to a home 5 minutes from her in January of 2016 so I saw her a couple times a week and spoke to her several times a day. She gave me direction and strength. I feel like I'm floundering now


My condolences go out to you and your family. 

Dan


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## lisals (Jun 21, 2017)

I'm so sorry for your loss.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

The lobelia cardinalis and ludwigia ovalis were ready for a trim so I replanted the tips. After taking care of some things yesterday Mika (my puppy) and I went to the park and then to the local LFS where she feels she is a celebrity. They had just gotten some nice Bosemani in so I chose the two that looked to be clearly male. Unfortunately the larger of the 2 didn't make it more than a couple hours. I'm going to bring him back today and see if there is another male. Otherwise I may go and pick up all the Emperor Tetras I can find. I had planned to not add any additional fish until after the C02 was setup, but I need some little distractions. I'll snap a pic today. 
Unfortunately the rotala macandra doesn't look so good. I took out what was left and put it in the little 11.4 with DIY CO2 and I'm hoping to keep some alive with the hygro Pinnetifida I've got going in there.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)




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## lisals (Jun 21, 2017)

Have you tested your water yet? Maybe if you don't want to buy a kit, then take some water to your LFS so they can test it for you?


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

​


lisals said:


> Have you tested your water yet? Maybe if you don't want to buy a kit, then take some water to your LFS so they can test it for you?


I brought some in today. O ammonia 0 nitrite 30ppm nitrate. I replaced the one Bosemani with another male and they seem to be well acquainted buddies... so yesterday I went looking for emperor tetras and found 1... so I bought it. This morning everyone was in tip top shape and went nuts when I fed them. I needed something to get my mind off things so Mika and I drove to my favorite LFS in Tampa. Money is a little tight, but after having them check my water I decided to get another 3 Emperor tetras... hoping to reach a school to where they can readily breed and have some fry survive in the tank... and also a final Bolivian Ram. I just like them so much. The looks the attitude all of it. The Last couple days haven't been like all the others... within minutes of being set free EVERYONE is schooling or chasing and seem to be really happy checking the place out. The new Emporers and Ram already ate at feeding time! I decided to add some more driftwood with some java moss to the tree area and also a cichlid cave that I tied some java moss to as well. I'm hoping for the moss to kind of intermingle with the scape and provide fry a place to eat and hide. I also added a couple small recovering buces. I really needed this little bit of encouragement. I've got 2 LFS trying to get me a pair of Apisto Caucatoides triple red. I'd like to try 2 pair. I should be getting scholarship money as well as going back to work for a few hours a week in a couple weeks so rather than stress my wife out I'll wait until then to do CO2. The fish are very little money and they give me alot of pleasure. I'm really thinking the Bosemani I got are going to be nice









Bump:


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## mbkemp (Dec 15, 2016)

Very nice!!


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## lisals (Jun 21, 2017)

YAY! So glad to hear that the water is A-OK!


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Ive decided on a Cerges reactor I think. I get paid on Thursday so I'm going to pick up the parts. Ill have to pick up a canister for the lower 75 or Ill use a atomizer for a bit. If I split it off the same output the lower tank will get less dispersion, but that would be ok for a while.

I started thinking about what I am going to stock in the lower tank. Right now there are 6 synodontis multipunctatus and 7 synodontis lucipinnis. They are pretty small so I would need something small that likes planted tanks that wont eat them.. but something a little different. I could do some rainbows in that tank too... I'm not sure how Kribs would get along. Cant have anything that would kill the cats.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Bump:








My LFS brought these in for me. I didn't especially want the Gold variety, but they are beautiful and healthy and a very good size. They've quickly claimed the large wood structure. In preparation for them today I did a water change and then dosed my ferts and Prime. I also picked up 5 Emperor's of the 20 they ordered for me. They said they tried to get the Goyder River Rainbows, but the ones he had were small and hard to tell if they were male. They said they'd pick some up for me next week along with the additional Milleniums and Bosemani. I'm pretty happy about that. Plus the girl that does the ordering is cute and she started chatting me up on the phone.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I'm beyond excited. Thus far they are moving around and claimed the network of caves by the large driftwood. Both are already eating. I'm ecstatic about these guys. They definately prefer the densely planted area so I'm thinking of doing some windolev java fern in there to make the caves more secluded. 
I'm trying to decide between a Cerges reactor on the 2217 or the Up Aqua turbo atomizer thing. I need to figure out how and where I'm going to mount the reactor if into that way. It would have to be on the side somewhere as my tanks are on top of one another on a rack. 
I changed the water today. As of now I'm dosing the EI amounts twice a week. Macro's on Wed and Fri and Plantex on Thurs and Saturday. It's going to be tough not spending money on fish long enough to buy the regulator and C02 tanks. I should be getting some scholarship money next week I'm thinking.


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## lisals (Jun 21, 2017)

That is a handsome little fish ya got there  Glad to hear they've made themselves right at home.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Bump:








Just awesome. They hid most of yesterday, but they were out and about this morning before the lights came on. I fed an entire cube of blood worms as well as some NLS micro pellets and crushed omega one flake. Everyone came out and was eating. I was hoping that would happen, but that's not my experience with new fish so I was VERY PLEASED. Big Orgo 2 exam today. If I get an A I am exempt from the final with A guaranteed A. That would really help me. I've worked very hard this semester. Of course there were issues with financial aid, but i think i got that straightened out. I think these guys would be alot happier if there was more cover in the way of plants and moss so I need that CO2 setup. They are very obviously a pair so I'm hoping for some breeding action in the next few weeks if they are happy enough with their cave selection. I large portion of Java moss would help with that. 
I'm undecided if I want to pack another 15 Emporers in there or hope that the 12 or so in there breed and some fry make it. I'm sure they are little fry predators and there isn't alot of dense cover just yet.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Got home from my Exam and saw my top dog Furcata and one of the females breeding over the little java moss cave! I then saw some emperor tetras in the thicket of stems apparently scattering some eggs!! 
I don't think any of these will make it due to the lack of dense vegetation at this time, but its pretty exciting nonetheless


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

So I got some pics of the pair. In reading about Apisto Caucatoides it seems that Caucatoides have been bred so selectively that many of the females display male traits making it difficult to differentiate with the normal characteristics. Let me know what you think. They are awfully friendly, but the smaller one has tremendous color, and extended dorsal spines. Ill get some pics up
On my lower tank I am in desperate need of a heater. I can tell the syno's are much less active and less enthusiastic about eating. So I did a water change. The lights are on one power strip and filters and circulation pumps on another. That means I turned off filter and pumps for both tanks. Utilizing my keen observation skills I noticed EVERYONE in the top tank having a blast swimming all over the tank, no one was up near the top near the glass and there was just 10 times the activity. I decided to unplug the massive circulation pump and that behavior has thus continued. I decided not to remove it as I could turn it on for brief periods here and there as needed.

Bump:









Bump:









Bump:


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## lisals (Jun 21, 2017)

No idea about those fish. Just wanted to say... gosh are they pretty!  That would be great if it was a really nice female though. Hopefully with the 2 being so chummy it does mean it's a male and female.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

​


lisals said:


> No idea about those fish. Just wanted to say... gosh are they pretty!  That would be great if it was a really nice female though. Hopefully with the 2 being so chummy it does mean it's a male and female.


I REALLY hope so. I am looking for a new home for my Dwarf Gourami and Puffer. The 11.4 they are in now has been up and running for years and is completely stocked with plants. I think the fry would thrive in those conditions. I recharge the DIY C02 in there every 10 days and I do 4ml of glut daily and with the addition of ferts it's been really amazing. 
My goals for this tank are pretty ambitious. A successful breeding pair of Apisto's and a successful breeding population of Emporers. I'd love to have 30-40 of them packed in there with the Rainbows and Apisto pair. I think that would make an amazing display with the lush landscape that I am hoping for. 
I'm even tossing around the idea of trading in my Peacocks and Haps for store credit and doing a similar set up in my 150 display. I'm tired of fish killing one another...

Bump:


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## lisals (Jun 21, 2017)

That sounds like a great goal  A giant school of the tetras would be so amazing and calming to watch. I'm sure that would be a great stress reliever too which I'm sure would be really beneficial for you while you're in school 
Would any of the LFSs you've been going to be willing to take the puffer and gourami? Maybe give you store credit for them.

What's the tall brownish colored plants on the left side of the tank? Looks so nice and... and... leafy lol


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

lisals said:


> That sounds like a great goal  A giant school of the tetras would be so amazing and calming to watch. I'm sure that would be a great stress reliever too which I'm sure would be really beneficial for you while you're in school
> Would any of the LFSs you've been going to be willing to take the puffer and gourami? Maybe give you store credit for them.
> 
> What's the tall brownish colored plants on the left side of the tank? Looks so nice and... and... leafy lol


It's Hygrophila Pinnetifida. Another one that hasnt done well for me without CO2 so it's in this tank for now


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

2 dead emperor tetras today. I then noticed most of the others up against the glass just below the surface. This is the reason. Super highly aggressive male that relentlessly chases them. The Bosemani's then chase him. I'm undecided. I'll be able to order the regulator Monday so by Wed I'll be rockin. I hooked up a small DIY CO2 being diffused through a mini Hagen Elite until then. I think my only option is to buy more to disperse the aggression, but I'm sick of losing fish. Then the new guys will need to settle in QT anyway as I'm not taking chances with the Apisto's, and Rainbows that I have now. Then I have enough to get some breeding, but the plants aren't dense enough for any to survive yet. 
Seems that the consensus is that both Apisto's are male so I need females as I definately want a spawning pair. Ugh...


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Turns out I got some of my scholarship stuff today. I ordered the regulator and a new heater for the bottom 75 gallon. I also went about gathering the parts for a reactor. At some point I got frustrated with the Cerges style so I decided on a Griggs. Putting it together now... and then it hit me... ok how am I getting CO2 into the bottom tank? There is a single outlet on the regulator. The canister filter from the top tank obviously cant be used for both. If I split the single line the CO2 will follow the path of least resistance.. and then there is the dispersal efficiency to consider. Hopefully it isn't difficult to add a second output onto this regulator. Lastly the Griggs cost about as much to build as one of those cheap CO2 diffusers.. but then I need to buy another canister for that tank.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Decided to hit the "reactor" with some hammered metallic paint I had left over from a project. Looks a lot better than PVC. Got all the tubing and clamps. Regulator will be here today. After reading reviews I didn't see a bubble counter that looked promising so I'll just used the drop checker and take a couple days to dial it in. I'm not sure I want to use the tanks my Pops has. I might just pick up a full tank from the gas place tomorrow. It's one less thing to worry about. I'll probably clip off the 90* bend from the eheim outflow pipe so the spray bar glues straight down in hopes that it better dispersed the CO2 rich water. Or I'll make something out of PVC. I just didn't want the output right at the water surface.


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## Mathman (Apr 5, 2009)

Sorry to hear that about your Emperor Tetras...one of my favorite fish of all time:











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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

The Dude1 said:


> Decided to hit the "reactor" with some hammered metallic paint I had left over from a project. Looks a lot better than PVC. Got all the tubing and clamps. Regulator will be here today. After reading reviews I didn't see a bubble counter that looked promising so I'll just used the drop checker and take a couple days to dial it in. I'm not sure I want to use the tanks my Pops has. I might just pick up a full tank from the gas place tomorrow. It's one less thing to worry about. I'll probably clip off the 90* bend from the eheim outflow pipe so the spray bar glues straight down in hopes that it better dispersed the CO2 rich water. Or I'll make something out of PVC. I just didn't want the output right at the water surface.


Don't worry about changing the spray bar it being close to the top is fine, and you actually want some surface agitation. Also I don't see any ball valve in your picture. It's a really good idea to install one after the reactor in order to create back pressure.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Nlewis said:


> Don't worry about changing the spray bar it being close to the top is fine, and you actually want some surface agitation. Also I don't see any ball valve in your picture. It's a really good idea to install one after the reactor in order to create back pressure.


Do you mean like a check valve? Well... that's on the CO2 line. I guess I missed the mention of a ball valve. Do you have a pic of how it's set up?


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

The Dude1 said:


> Decided to hit the "reactor" with some hammered metallic paint I had left over from a project. Looks a lot better than PVC. Got all the tubing and clamps. Regulator will be here today. After reading reviews I didn't see a bubble counter that looked promising so I'll just used the drop checker and take a couple days to dial it in. I'm not sure I want to use the tanks my Pops has. I might just pick up a full tank from the gas place tomorrow. It's one less thing to worry about. I'll probably clip off the 90* bend from the eheim outflow pipe so the spray bar glues straight down in hopes that it better dispersed the CO2 rich water. Or I'll make something out of PVC. I just didn't want the output right at the water surface.


Looks great. Just want to make sure you know to install it vertically? You will have to rig up something to hold it upright. I think they can be done horizontally, but they need bioballs inside to agitate the flow.

I opted for the "hi tech" PVC look for mine. Can of spray paint costs $5 and goes against the whole DIY ethos.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

The Dude1 said:


> Do you mean like a check valve? Well... that's on the CO2 line. I guess I missed the mention of a ball valve. Do you have a pic of how it's set up?


Nope completely different. It's a shut off valve and I'll link an example below. Install it after the reactor and you can slightly close it to create back pressure in the reactor. This will aid in diffusing the Co2 so it doesn't just blow right out of the reactor. You'd need to get 2 more hose clamps and the corresponding sized hose barbs to go with it.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Homewerk...40-Slip-x-Slip-Ball-Valve-VBVP40E4B/202370032


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

Nlewis said:


> Nope completely different. It's a shut off valve and I'll link an example below. Install it after the reactor and you can slightly close it to create back pressure in the reactor. This will aid in diffusing the Co2 so it doesn't just blow right out of the reactor. You'd need to get 2 more hose clamps and the corresponding sized hose barbs to go with it.
> 
> Homewerks Worldwide 3/4 in. PVC Sch. 40 Slip x Slip Ball Valve-VBVP40E4B - The Home Depot


I think this depends on his flow rate and whether he installs it vertically.

My SunSun 302b is prob only flowing 200GPH and with 2" diameter and 24" length Griggs, there is zero chance of any bubbles getting forced out before they are dissolved.

I've seen these backpressure devices, but I doubt they are necessary on low flow systems. IMO.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

The Dude1 said:


> Decided to hit the "reactor" with some hammered metallic paint I had left over from a project. Looks a lot better than PVC. Got all the tubing and clamps. Regulator will be here today. After reading reviews I didn't see a bubble counter that looked promising so I'll just used the drop checker and take a couple days to dial it in. I'm not sure I want to use the tanks my Pops has. I might just pick up a full tank from the gas place tomorrow. It's one less thing to worry about. I'll probably clip off the 90* bend from the eheim outflow pipe so the spray bar glues straight down in hopes that it better dispersed the CO2 rich water. Or I'll make something out of PVC. I just didn't want the output right at the water surface.


Nice looking reactor! Looks like you are going further down the road now. I foresee a tank full of stems in your future!:grin2:


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Mathman said:


> Sorry to hear that about your Emperor Tetras...one of my favorite fish of all time:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It was a painful lesson, but I'm not one to give up on something I want. I'll get a good breeding group going in there one way or another. 
As of now the plan is to let these guys settle in and get some plant mass going. I'll probably pick up some nerites at least, but perhaps some Amano shrimp and oto's at some point. I've got a ton of that Brown algae on the back glass which if I remember correctly is their favorite type.

Bump:


Nlewis said:


> Nope completely different. It's a shut off valve and I'll link an example below. Install it after the reactor and you can slightly close it to create back pressure in the reactor. This will aid in diffusing the Co2 so it doesn't just blow right out of the reactor. You'd need to get 2 more hose clamps and the corresponding sized hose barbs to go with it.
> 
> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Homewerk...40-Slip-x-Slip-Ball-Valve-VBVP40E4B/202370032


I can see the logic behind it. I may just add it in anyway. The gph for a 2215 is like 160gph... I mean this filter already barely drizzles the water out, but I'm considering using the AC70 powerheads which is 400 gph. It would almost just make sense to do the whole thing in PVC at this point given its location and such. I may just do that.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Well the Up Aqua regulator was a dud. I should have known judging by how the display on the gauges was uneven and crinkled. Upon closer inspection the low pressure gauge needle was on the wrong side of the gauge. Hopefully Amazon refunds it right when I drop it off. Ordered the Aquatech one and went ahead and ordered a nice looking 20lb CO2 Tank as well since this won't be up and running for a week while I wait for the new regulator. I'm going to set up the reactor when I get home and just hook it up to the DIY CO2. That way when the stuff arrives all I have to do is get the tank filled and I'm ready to rock.

I'll probably pick up some cleaner crew inhabitants today to scratch my immediate satisfaction itch.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Hooked up the reactor and plugged in the yeast CO2. The flow in this tank is awful without the circulation pump. So I put the big dual one in the 150 and took out a smaller AC50 powerheads and I've got it aimed at the output for the reactor/filter. Flow is good now. I'm hoping that this and maybe 30ml of glut daily will get me some good growth until the other stuff is here. Bought the Milwaukee and Aquateck... I know why not buy a good one... because I have alot of expensive hobbies and I'll buy a nice one for my display tank. Drop checker will be here today. I doubt this will make enough difference to show anything


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

Is your reactor 2" tubing? It looks thinner.

Let us know how it works.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

ChrisX said:


> Is your reactor 2" tubing? It looks thinner.
> 
> Let us know how it works.


No I had to settle for 1.75" to get all the fitting to match up. Or maybe I just didn't see the things I needed in 2". It took me a really long time to find the fitting and PVC parts so once I found it all in 1.75" I just stuck with it. I may set up the drop checker tomorrow and see if I can get it to change at all. I seriously doubt it. I'm not happy about having to wait probably a week for everything to arrive, but I'll have at least 1 regulator that works and a nice looking 20lb aluminum tank. I would think that would run both 75's for a year or thereabouts. I'm excited to see how that ranunculus turns out for you. If it doesn't work in your fitted tank I'm not going to waste my time.
I picked up 3 zebra Nerites. They didn't have any Amano shrimp or oto's. I only get the nerites that are crawling on the tank glass to make sure they're healthy. Ive got 2 more in my 11.4 that might come over. I may try to pick up 3 or 4 more

Right now this is what I'm thinking for additional stocking
2 female Apisto's- I'd love 2 pairs, but at least I would have a good chance at one successful pair
8-10 more Emporer Tetras - the others seem to have settled, but I'd like to grow enough out to form a nice school in my 150
1 additional Bosemani
2 additional Millenium Rainbows
6 Amano shrimp 
8 oto cats
3 more Nerite snails

I think that would make for a pretty fun balanced tank with a nice cleanup crew. 
I'll put the culls from my soon to be set up PFR tank. If I add enough at each time and continually add them a nice colony should form. Had a nice group of 100+ with angels, Congo tetras, and Rams


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

The Dude1 said:


> I picked up 3 zebra Nerites. They didn't have any Amano shrimp or oto's. I only get the nerites that are crawling on the tank glass to make sure they're healthy. Ive got 2 more in my 11.4 that might come over. I may try to pick up 3 or 4 more


I recently lost my two Nerite snails. I'm assuming they are dead, can't even find them in the tank. Yesterday, nitrates were 80+ (ammonia and nitrite 0), most likely because of standard EI dosing. Nerites are sensitive to nitrates. 70% Water change and this week, half EI dosing.

Had them for six months. Either they are buried in the substrate or climbed out of the tank and fell behind the stand.. I'd like some closure...:crying:

On the bright side, it appears my keyholes in the 29g breeding tank are trying again.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I hate the brown algae all over the back glass. Hopefully the new crew cleans it up some

Bump:


ChrisX said:


> I recently lost my two Nerite snails. I'm assuming they are dead, can't even find them in the tank. Yesterday, nitrates were 80+ (ammonia and nitrite 0), most likely because of standard EI dosing. Nerites are sensitive to nitrates. 70% Water change and this week, half EI dosing.
> 
> Had them for six months. Either they are buried in the substrate or climbed out of the tank and fell behind the stand.. I'd like some closure...:crying:
> 
> On the bright side, it appears my keyholes in the 29g breeding tank are trying again.


Will they raise the fry? That would be cool. I really need a test kit. I've been doing about 60% EI for a tank my size. I'm only dosing twice a week and doing about 80% of what each dose should be. I may do my water change a day early after hearing of your problem. I've been in there every 15 minutes to check on them after hearing about yours lol!


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

I recently got a magnetic glass cleaner to get the places the old stick cleaner would not. If there are a few inches behind your tank you can probably reach behind it and clean. Stem plants make cleaning the rear glass with the stick style almost impossible.

Bump:


The Dude1 said:


> I really need a test kit.


HUH?? You've been spending alot on your setup, the API Master Test kit is only $25.

Did I read that right? You have several large tanks, just built a CO2 reactor, and don't have an effing test kit.

I hate to say this, but if you don't order one NOW I'm going to lose respect for you. :crying::crying::crying: (Just trying to get you to see reason and buy one.) Please tell me I misunderstood. 

While you are at it, get a GH/KH test kit.

Edit: At the very LEAST you need pH and KH test kits to determine your CO2 level. The drop checker lags reality.


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## lisals (Jun 21, 2017)

Wow, that's a lot of brown algae. Just think of it this way... it's unsightly, but it's going to give your little clean up crew a whole lot of food lol.
And yes I agree.... spend a little more and get a test kit already!


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Very true. My issue is I need to get back into making lists. When I'm ordering stuff or at the store I get my intended purchase and I'm out. I don't think of the necessary ancillaries until I have a problem. I'll get a new master test kit today. I'm going to do a water change a day early. I saw all 3 nerites this morning and they look happy, but I don't want to chance it given the fert dosing and super low CO2 supplementation. I've got a scrubber and a magnetic one, but I REALLY want Oto's and I know you're supposed to have a good bit for them to munch on during their initial acclamation to have the best chance of survival. Maybe I'll get what I can get today and see where I stand. I'll hit the glass ansnthenndo the water change.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Cleaned up 95% of the brown stuff before a 50% water change. I was hoping the the DIY CO2 would have built up some pressure overnight, but it appears I didn't totally shut it off. No big deal. Haven t seen the slightest sign of any bubbles out of the output. Did 25ml of glut today. Maybe Wed I'll jump to 30 and keep it there until the real CO2 stuff gets here. Took one of the 2 Nerites out of the 11.4 as there isn't much left in there for them to eat. So I've got 4 in this tank. I'd love to get them on top of the large anubias leaves. I can't really set them there because of the output from the powerheads to circulate the output. Maybe at least move them to the area. None.of the other plants have much appreciable algae, but those anubias being so large and right under the lights get covered pretty quick.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Given everything going on I am taking some time from work. My wife is staying home with me utilizing the leave allowed by the Dept. That's been a huge help. She is also very accommodating and understands that the tank helps me deal with things. Im out of school until Aug 14 and start my Grad program full time. I've never had time like this. I actually manually rubbed off all the diatoms on all the plant leaves. I'm going to go to a siesta schedule i think. Maybe like 4 hours on 3 off and 2 on? I also hit the moss with H2O2 to try to clean it up. I want some xmas moss I think. It would probably be best if I waited for the CO2 so that it isn't inundated with algae. Money is really tight so I'm going to settle down and just start making a list. My LFS in Tampa has a fantastic selection so I'm tossing some ideas around. 

I was thinking of doing Bolbitus directly behind the large wood. Then maybe a large portion of needle leaf java fern or trident? Then a section for the ludwigia ovalis and I'm undecided between separating it from the Bacopa Caroliniana or keeping them kind of mixed together for a more wild look for the back.
I'd also like to do more crypt Parva in the front. The initial leaves were decently large... about the size of crypt Lucens... the newly grown leaves are about 1/4 the size. I'
The lobelia cardinalis is growing and spreading nicely. A coulle pieces have been uprooted so i stuck them in the 11.4 to grow out. This tank has the hygro Pinnetifida,
all of the rotala macrandra , Monte Carlo, and the rhizomes from the Buces that the Africans destroyed that im hoping recover. I've got a vision forming in my mind and I'm trying not to be sucked in by the allure of exotic stems and midground plants.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I had to be honest with myself. The bolbitus in the 150 is slowly dying as it always does. Rather than let it wilt and waste away I told about half of it out packed it behind the large driftwood like I was thinking. It's super dark green so it doesn't show as well. Once it settles in and starts acclimating I think it will look great. I'm thinking pushing the ludwigia to the left with the Bacopa carolinia and putting a good amount of trident java fern.... that way I've only got a small areas of stems that may need more maintenance.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

So I went by the LFS and they had Millenium Rainbows, bosemani, Signifer, Madagascar, Turqoiuse, Celebes, and one other... I should have bought at least 2 Milleniums, but they looked so big that I wasn't sure that they weren't Incissus, until I got the one home and into the tank with my other. Now I'm really regretting it so I'm thinking of heading back up there. My original Millenium is NOT HAPPY. He keeps charging the new one. His color is insane... and the new guy has colored way down. It doesn't appear that the Bosemani care one way or another. Money is tight, but it sure would be nice to have the full 3 Millenium that I want and pick up a third Bosemani.
The Regulator came today (Aquatek) and it looks nice. I should have ordered the tank from Amazon as it would have been here yesterday so now I'm waiting on that. 
I also made the 4kdh solution and hooked up the drop checker... amazingly the drop checker is a green color. Not bright green, but certainly green. I would say something is off, but I made the 4dkh solution and chemistry is kind of my thing. The other reagent is something I worked with in the lab several times so nothing going on there. Bromothymol Blue. It was a dark blue with the 4dkh and now its green. Ill post a pic.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)




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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I removed all the dying Bolbitus from the left side to put in the 75. I'm thinking of doing wisteria in the back parts with some large anubias in front. Both of those should do well. 
I'm also taking a chance and adding some Rainbows in there to livin up the tank and disburse aggression. My Yellow Blaze hasn't eaten in days and is on his way out. I can't spend $55-$60 a fish to add comparable size fish. So I'm thinking maybe 10 Australian Rainbows and then one or 2 medium cichlids. Haven't decided which yet. I really like the aristochromis and the Fusco but they get huge.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I was hoping the tank would be here today... it was ordered the same day as the regulator which arrived yesterday. Unfortunately they used FedEx so it could be November by the time it arrives. Supposed to be tomorrow so hopefully it will get here and I can't get it filled and going. The anubias is getting hammered with the high light in the area, but it has to be that high to get the lobelia cardinalis. Once the Bolbitus start growing I may move that anubias to the 150. Right now I need it for sight breaks and such.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Since the anubias was getting way too much light in that spot and the remaining bolbitus in the 150 was still dying I decided to move the anubias over there and put the remainder of the Bolbitus in here. I also snipped off part of the anubias nana rhizome that is in the 150. It's been in there for 8+ months and I've seen almost no growth. I'll see a new leaf forming then one of the Africans eats it. I like it in here and it will actually grow. I'm thinking I may just pack the 150 full of large anubias for now. My LFS has the really large plants for like $11. 2 more of those and I should have the cover I need until I can get a CO2 system for that tank, but at least the Rainbows should have ways to escape 
It is slowly coming together. I'm going to replace the center 6-7" with Java Fern trident and then separate the Ludwigia and Bacopa for contrast. That should be easy to maintain as there will only be those two areas with stems that have to be trimmed and occasionally topped. It should also give me the option of letting it get really dense at times to increase the chance of fry survival. 
I've also been thinking about how in the world that DIY C02 got that drop checker green. I went in this morning fully expecting it to be green and it was a very solid dark blue after having lights and CO2 off for 11 hours. Needless to say I'm very excited for the tank to get here tomorrow. Hopefully it's here early enough for me to get to the welding supply place. They close at 430 and they are closed on weekends. 
I have a ton of family coming in tomorrow and funeral Saturday. It would he very nice to have something to distract me


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## lisals (Jun 21, 2017)

Your tanks look so nice  
The cichlids won't bother rainbows? 
Hope your tank gets in soon so you can get all of that set up.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

lisals said:


> Your tanks look so nice
> The cichlids won't bother rainbows?
> Hope your tank gets in soon so you can get all of that set up.


Ive seen and read quite a bit about people using Rainbows as dither fish for some of the less homicidal Africans. Ive got Haps and Peacocks mainly. I do have a pair of Yellow Labs and the female is really small .Like 2.5" and other than the male nobody bothers her. The Australian Rainbows are a similar size. I almost bought a group today. I decided to hold off and work on one tank at a time. Besides I want to do at least 10 at one time so there is a huge group to prevent any targeted aggression. Ive probably only got 10 Africans. Ive got 2 albino BN Plecos one of which is only about 2" and a Syno Euruptus that's about 3". I wish I could just add the syno multi's that Ive got growing out, but they are small... like 1 1/4". I've got 6 Syno lucipinnis growing out with them, but I think I may keep them in the smaller 75 and try to breed them. 6 Syno multipunctatus, 1 Syno Euruptus, and 2 albino BN Plecos is crowding that floor space pretty good. With the Rainbows in there I see a lot of water changes in my future.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

FedEx just dropped off my 20lb Tank! Going to hit the gym and then get it filled and running!


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I'm hoping the Milwaukee regulator gets here today. As it stands I'm going to hook up the Aquatek and see how it is. 
Right now I spent 
$110 average for each regulator, but I'll return one
$120 for 20lb tank
$40 for parts for the reactor and tubing to hook up the reactor to the eheim. 
Hopefully it isn't more than $20 to fill the tank, but I'm thinking it should run both 75's for at least 8 months. I may just use a little ceramic diffuser for the bottom 75, but I need to decide how I want to go about hooking up another port and needle valve. It's not worth the risk to try to run both off of the same needle valve. 
Once I get the cash together I may run this regulator on my 150 since it doesn't need to be as precise and I'll get a nicer one for these tanks with 2 or 3 outlets and independent needle valves. 
Next pic will be pressurized!!


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

Did you buy a test kit yet?


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## lisals (Jun 21, 2017)

I'm not sure where in Florida you're located, but just watched a video that had a business called "sck cichlids" that are located in south? Florida I think. If you're near them, maybe give them a try if you're still looking for some good local fish spots 

Anywho.. YAY for finally getting the tank


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

ChrisX said:


> Did you buy a test kit yet?


Yes. I figured it was only a matter of time before it cost me a ton of money by not having it. Unfortunately the wife said no on filling the tank today. I have family and friends coming in from all over the country for the funeral tomorrow and we are tight on money as I haven't gotten the bulk of my scholarship and financial aid money and I haven't been at work in 3 weeks. It's only probably like $20 to fill, but she handles the bills and money so I don't have to stress about it. So whatever she says goes. Hopefully Monday. I won't argue the issue, but I was Hoping that this would keep my mind off of things for a little bit longer. Now it's starting to hit me. Funeral is tomorrow at 9am. My Pops isn't doing well. He has some of his side of the family and friends coming today too so hopefully that keeps him busy.

So looks like I won't be high tech until Monday. That gives me a chance to get everything in order. I can't find my timers so I'll need to get a new one... I want a nice one this time. Also I'm assuming I need some kind of rubber washer to go between the valve on the bottle and the regulator... do I also use plumbers tape on the bottle threads?? Is there any specific process for attaching the regulator? Hand tight then 1/2 turn with wrench? Quarter turn? Full turn? I guess that's about it. The regulator came with a bubble counter the connects in between the tubing. I'll put a second check valve in between this bubble counter/ check valve and the regulator.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Airgas is open tomorrow so Ill be there first thing in the morning to get this tank filled and get it going. Going in about 30 minutes to pick out some fish. I'm thinking a Millenium and maybe a Bosemani if they have a nice one. Once this one is stocked and setup Ill move to the 150 and add the Rainbows and some more anubias. Or should I grab some amano shrimp and Oto's??


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## lisals (Jun 21, 2017)

The Dude1 said:


> Airgas is open tomorrow so Ill be there first thing in the morning to get this tank filled and get it going. Going in about 30 minutes to pick out some fish. I'm thinking a Millenium and maybe a Bosemani if they have a nice one. Once this one is stocked and setup Ill move to the 150 and add the Rainbows and some more anubias. Or should I grab some amano shrimp and Oto's??


Whatever looks good 
Excited to see how your tank does with co2! Can't wait to see all of the growth that's going to happen.

Hope you and your family are doing ok.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

New Pic. I took one of the Crypt Becketti from the lower 75 and put it in here for contrast. I love it... it has copper and light green tones... It's really gorgeous. The one I put in the 150 melted and the new leaves are super tiny and compact. I'm going to give it some time. I packed the Parva a little tighter. Other than wanting to add some java fern trident and get some nice growth from the bolbitus I am really liking it.
So I got to the store and I was just blown away again. Their selection of Tanganyikan cichlids is insane... Sumbo dwarf's... 3 kinds of cyps, 3 kinds of shell dwellers... Black and Gold Calvus, leluepi, just everything I have only read about. They also had a few species of dwarf cichlids I've never seen... it was tempting... and they had some nice aristochromis christiyi, VC10's,... and on and on... I'm going to get a fee more Haps and add them with the Rainbows... a VC10 for sure... I figure 2 months before I can add the syno Multi's... Should be a super active fun tank. 

I'm trying to go slow and one tank at a time to make sure I REALLY want what I think I want... some Tangs in the bottom 75 with the syno lucipinnis would be super cool...

Ha I totally forgot my point.. they had 2 or 3 male Goyder River so I added my 3rd pair of male Rainbows. Unfortunately they went right to the surface acting as though there wasn't enough O2 in the water... but all the other fish are fine. Not really sure what to do since I'm sure that 2 DIY yeast bottles aren't going to put a 75 gallon at 30ppm.... I'm just going to give them some time to relax and adjust.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Is that a little pearling in a 75 gallon tank with DIY C02?? 
I think other than the java fern trident and some moss I'm happy for now. I'm going to add some Amano shrimp and 5 more Oto's (they only had 1 so I got him) and 2 female Apisto's and see how the dynamic works. I'm pretty happy with the growth I've gotten so far so I'm expecting big things once I have legit CO2 and full EI dosing. I see alot of people talking about iron. What form and where are you guys getting it? What amount should I start out with on this tank?


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I called both places today to make sure there were no suprises. Airgas was disconnected. The other place told me that it would be $32 to fill my 20lb tank. I went in there and the lady said "we don't fill them, but I can get you a filled one". I said no I spent the money on this nice aluminum one since its going to be visible. I said I called previously and a guy said it was $32 to fill. She says well its $32 for a filled one. I said "oh that's it?" She says ya you exchange yours and we give you a filled one. Again I said well I spent the money on this brand new aluminum one. She says "OK I think we are going in circles, let me show you what Ive got". So they wheel out a brand spanking new aluminum tank that looks EXACTLY like mine... Oh.. that works LOL. So I got it all hooked up and man.... I expected a lot more hassle. I hooked up the Aquatek since its already got a set working pressure so nothing for me to mess with... Pretty easy to get to about 1BPS and ill turn it up a bit in a couple hours if it doesn't get me where I want to be. Also picked up a nice digital timer. Pretty slick... 

I'm pretty pumped to get it going on the lower 75.. but of course a bulb burned out so I need to replace that.... and make a reactor.. and buy a canister.... I'm really tempted by the crazy assortment of Tangs at the LFS, but I think my attention will first go the 150 Display and putting some new peacocks and haps in there with some Rainbows..


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

Before you crank the CO2, what is your KH and pH?

You need to know these so you can gauge how much CO2 the tank is getting.

If your KH is particularly high or low, you might get unexpected results. Could result in gassing the whole tank.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

ChrisX said:


> Before you crank the CO2, what is your KH and pH?
> 
> You need to know these so you can gauge how much CO2 the tank is getting.
> 
> If your KH is particularly high or low, you might get unexpected results. Could result in gassing the whole tank.


I haven't gotten a KH testing kit yet. I just made up some 4dKH solution for the drop checker. I'm keeping it a solid light green and have been checking on the fish every 15 minutes. PH was 7.2 last time I tested it and that was first thing in the morning before turning on the little DIY Co2 for the day. I'm probably not getting a full 1 point drop yet. I'm going to let it sit as is for a couple days and then Ill reassess. Id rather not be super close to the limit for gassing the fish. I don't have any real difficult plants and I'm not going to be adding any in either tank. 

I'm probably about 2BPS or a little less. Ill actually time it and see if I can count that fast. Probably not. 

I added in some windolev java fern rhizomes from what's left in the 150. I'm still going to try to pick up some trident locally and some christmas moss. I'm thinking seriously about wrapping some of the branches with some moss after doing a water change. That would look so killer.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Who is eating my Hygro??! It must be the Emporer Tetras... who else could it be?! They are really gobbling on them. It seems like my once daily feeding is already alot... Should I be feeding more?


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Petco had a buy 1 get one 50% off.... but it was only on the plants in the tank, not the ones in the packages. The manager began asking about my Mika and was asking me about her saying that he hoped he could afford to buy one by the end of the year. Afterwards he asked for the breeder's contact info. I then asked about the plants and he said he would do the same on the package plants for me. So I got 2 large java fern windolev. It looked too similar to be placed next to the bolbitus. I am still not crazy about it next to the Bacopa. I just need some moss and I think I'll leave it to grow in some. 
And someone is tearing into the hygro.


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## lisals (Jun 21, 2017)

WOOT! on getting a deal for the plants 
That sucks about whatever fishy is pecking at them though. Wonder who it is?


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

lisals said:


> WOOT! on getting a deal for the plants
> That sucks about whatever fishy is pecking at them though. Wonder who it is?


I'm totally at a loss. According to profiles Apisto's don't eat plants, Rainbows don't eat plants, and Emporer Tetras don't eat plants... Bolivian Rams don't eat plants... so someone doesn't know that they aren't supposed to eat plants.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

So I'm open for suggestions...
1. I want to add fish to the 150. Right now I'm thinking VC10, Red Fin Borleyi, and perhaps a pair of Rock Kribs. I'm not sure if Rock Kribs eat plants... and then Australian Rainbows so that I add about 10 fish. 
2. Ideas for the lower 75 gallon with the syno lucipinnis and multifasciatus. The Multi's will eventually go to the 150. For the lower tank... I don't know what I want, but I want it densely planted with a rock scape. I'd like a breeding pair of community friendly cichlids... I can't do Discus and I don't want Angels or Congo Tetras.. I would like a group of Botia loaches if they will do alright with the syno's and not damage plants... I really like Kribs... but they're so common.. 
I'll be looking into a new regulator with at least 2 outputs so I can use it for both 75's and use this one on the 150. 
Most of the dual output regulators I'm seeing are like $700... I was thinking more around $300 to $350... I mean it's using all the same parts just a dual outlet manifold and an additional needle valve. I don't need something SUPER precise as it's for 2 75 gallon tanks. Any suggestions? Or anyone want to help me piece on together or link me to a video about building one??


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Added some Hygro Pinnetifida that I was keeping alive in the 11.4. I like it. I want to put some moss on the branches. I like the look of Christmas moss, but I think flame moss would work better and look cleaner... What do you think?


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I got a golf ball of nice looking spikey moss. I tied some onto the branch on the right side and on top of some of the mopani. There's some java moss on a piece of driftwood near this piece. I may move that and keep it on the cichlid stone on the left side. I'm going to give it some time to see. I also tied what was left onto some stainless steel mesh so I have some should I choose to swap some spikey moss so that they stay seperate.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Added a couple more stems of Hygro Pinnetifida that I had growing out with the yeast reactor in the 11.4. It always died when I tried it before. Apparently CO2 is a requisite. It grew pretty well and I love how it works in this tank.
Other than really wanting stuff to grow in I'm pretty happy. I still need to add a pair of female Apisto Caucatoides and probably move the other male into the lower 75. Ive always loved Firemouths so I'm thinking I might do Apisto's and Firemouths.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I thought about getting a little splitter to get CO2 to the bottom tank, but there aren't too many positive reviews. I guess I'll do the GLA one with 2 outlets. It's $325 which isn't bad. Maybe I'll get a custom one. I'm very happy thus far with the Aquatek and I really would like to just swap that one out, but...
1. it works perfectly
2. I want to run CO2 on my display tank in the entryway 

It just makes sense to use this regulator on the big tank as it doesn't need to be quite as precise and it works well. 

We will be moving as soon as I graduate PA school and I will be opening an Office in TN. My Mother left the vast majority of her estate to me. I'm going to start construction on our home on our 11 acres in the mountains sometime this year. I'm going to have a custom built 300+ gallon tank in the entry way with a constant drip system and have everything plumbed through the house including an Office with a wall of large tanks built into one of the walls. I'm thinking about a large group of Discus, some Apisto's, maybe a pair of Firemouths? The aggression issues with the Peacocks and Haps just turned me off. I'm thinking about maybe doing a 125 gallon with my Haps and Peacocks, and maybe Rock Kribs. I don't know. I'll do one at a time, but I'm thinking 2 125's and 4 75's. Has anyone had something like this done?? I'm sure I'm going to have to have the builder collaborate with the person setting up the aquarium system so that piping can be done correctly. I'll also be building a gym in the basement. It's alot to tackle at one time along with school. 
So these tanks will be my focus for the time being while I figure out ferts, CO2, and get ideas for lighting.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

Get a separate regulator and tank. 

Tanks will always be tethered together if there is one regulator.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

ChrisX said:


> Get a separate regulator and tank.
> 
> Tanks will always be tethered together if there is one regulator.


Ya I'm going to get the GLA one with 3 ports I think. I'll put that one on my 20lb tank and then I'll put this regulator on a 10lb tank to use in the 150.

I ordered new bulbs for the lower 75 as I had one burn out and they are like 2 years old anyway. I'm thinking I may pull the anubias congensis out of there and put it in the 150 where the java fern is now. Anubias seems to be the only thing that survives in the 150. 

I am also going to tear down the 11.4 and get it ready for some shrimp and later some Apisto fry. Going to use a piece of spider wood. For plants I'm going to do a sprig of bolbitus and some java fern. Some spikey moss on the branches and a nice patch on the substrate and some crypt Parva I think. 

Right now it's just a trimming tank and seems to be growing the rotala macandra that I couldn't grow in the 75 before the CO2. Honestly it's a pain so I don't think I'm going to reintroduce it.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I've only got a cell phone camera so these are the best I can do. The Millennium rainbows have worked out their differences and are now together all the time. Both have developed extremely bright coloration which I am very happy about. I'll try to get some better pics. The Bosmani are looking good. The Goyder River are still pretty bland, but they seem a little more colorful around the fins and stripes on the body


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

The Dude1 said:


> I've only got a cell phone camera so these are the best I can do. The Millennium rainbows have worked out their differences and are now together all the time. Both have developed extremely bright coloration which I am very happy about. I'll try to get some better pics. The Bosmani are looking good. The Goyder River are still pretty bland, but they seem a little more colorful around the fins and stripes on the body


Good to see the Millinnium's have worked it out. They will continue to spar at times, but don't let it concern you. How long have the Goyder River's been in the tank? Sometimes it takes a few weeks for them to really get acclimated and feel secure.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Greggz said:


> Good to see the Millinnium's have worked it out. They will continue to spar at times, but don't let it concern you. How long have the Goyder River's been in the tank? Sometimes it takes a few weeks for them to really get acclimated and feel secure.


Only about a week, but they are pretty small too. They had 6 and three clearly had red around the fins and on the bodies more so than the others of similar size so I took a chance. The Bosemani have colored up quite a bit given how small they are. They've been in there a couple weeks and were purchased at the same time. 
You don't have any experience with the Blue eyes Rainbows do you? I've got wants left of my original 7 Furcata. 2 males and 2 females. No one bothers them, but I see them at the surface all the time now... all the other fish are fine and my drop checker is a pretty middle of the road green so I don't think CO2 is super high. I'm thinking I may not add anymore of them. They were expensive and aren't nearly as entertaining and active as the others.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

The Dude1 said:


> Only about a week, but they are pretty small too. They had 6 and three clearly had red around the fins and on the bodies more so than the others of similar size so I took a chance. The Bosemani have colored up quite a bit given how small they are. They've been in there a couple weeks and were purchased at the same time.


It will be interesting to see how the Goyder's color up. They really can look quite different, depending on the breeding stock. Well bred ones should show some pretty sharp red and black even at a small size. Some of the over bred ones are more of a tan color, and they stay that way into adulthood. Only time will tell what you have there. 



The Dude1 said:


> You don't have any experience with the Blue eyes Rainbows do you? I've got wants left of my original 7 Furcata. 2 males and 2 females. No one bothers them, but I see them at the surface all the time now... all the other fish are fine and my drop checker is a pretty middle of the road green so I don't think CO2 is super high. I'm thinking I may not add anymore of them. They were expensive and aren't nearly as entertaining and active as the others.


No, I've never kept the blue eyes. I do try to keep various sizes of Bows, but never anything so small as the blue eyes. For some reason, they always seemed to be a bit more delicate, and when I considered it, I was concerned about how they would do with larger more aggressive Bows.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

The Goyder Rivers are about 1.5".. but at that size other than Bosemani's I haven't seen too many with great color. I really hope they are good quality. I'll snap a pic once they settle. There's been alot of action this morning... Ive got one big male Emporer that chase the other males, but today I noticed him in the stems with a REALLY big female. Now the male is chasing everyone from the bolbitus including the Rainbows and the female is chasing all the female Emporers.. what's crazy is look at the tail extension on this obviously green eyed female.









This is the male for comparison. Bright blue eyes









I'm really hoping for fry. It would be the perfect time since the Rainbows and cichlids are smaller.

Bump: This is a better pic of the female








That's one of the Goyder River Rainbows in the background


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

After doing some reading about the use of crushed coral as a substrate in a planted tank I have determined that this is the issue I have been experiencing. Apparently only a few species are able to grow and survive in this substrate not only due to the change in pH, but the significant levels of hardness. I took the remaining java fern rhizomes and placed them in the 11.4 with yeast CO2 and metricide to try to bring them back a bit and it will go in the lower 75. Took the azfelli from that 75 (which grew quite a bit) and placed it here. Fish seem pretty happy about it. The Yellow Labs are spawning again. I'll pick up some more to attach to the wood. Once I get CO2 on this tank I should be able to use it as a nice anubias growout as long as the cichlids arent eating the new leaves with any consistency.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

So in the last couple of days I have picked up 2 VC10's, 2 Copadichromis Chrysonotos, 1 Deep Water Hap, and 2 Rusty's. I'm going to add them all at once with the synodontis multi to the 150 once they all grow out a bit. 
I also took out most of the stone out of the 75 and put a few pieces of really big driftwood in there. The big setback is the remaining silicone along the back glass from where I previously attached the DIY background... so I've got 2 travertine tiles along the back. I need the plants to grow some to make it look decent. It's really ugly right now so I'm not posting any pics. The bulbs came and I am going to figure out how to start injecting some CO2 in there.
Lastly I got 3 Amano shrimp for the top 75. I saw a Rainbow go after one briefly, but he disappeared really quickly. If I could find 4 or 5 more Oto's I think I'd have a working group. Just need the female Apisto Caucatoides


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Took out most of the stone of the bottom 75 and put some big pieces of driftwood in there. I didn't think it was necessary to buy any as I plan to have this tank very densely planted. The tile covers up the silicone from the DIY background that came off... I'm going to give the plants some time to grow and if I don't like it I guess I'll buy a new tank. 
Also lost one of the syno Multi's last night. It hitched a ride onto one of the stones and I didn't find it for a couple hours.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

The Dude1 said:


> After doing some reading about the use of crushed coral as a substrate in a planted tank I have determined that this is the issue I have been experiencing. Apparently only a few species are able to grow and survive in this substrate not only due to the change in pH, but the significant levels of hardness. I took the remaining java fern rhizomes and placed them in the 11.4 with yeast CO2 and metricide to try to bring them back a bit and it will go in the lower 75. Took the azfelli from that 75 (which grew quite a bit) and placed it here. Fish seem pretty happy about it. The Yellow Labs are spawning again. I'll pick up some more to attach to the wood. Once I get CO2 on this tank I should be able to use it as a nice anubias growout as long as the cichlids arent eating the new leaves with any consistency.


Is this the 150?


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

ChrisX said:


> Is this the 150?


Yes...
And I need an honest opinion... should I replace those travertine tiles?? There is silicone.globs all over behind them.. I'm not sure what I could use to cover it. The silicone is on the inside. I will be picking up the new regulator with 3 outputs next week and I'll probably go with a 10lb tank. I'll have CO2 going on both 75's and the 150 so I should finally get some good growth. 
Or do I leave it and see how well the swords and crypt Balansae fill it in? Should grow quick with 3 52w T5 bulbs, injected CO2, and ferts... 
I'm figuring about 2 months before I can add the multi's and cichlids at one time to the 150. Still havent decided on stock. I'm entertaining putting one of the Apisto's in there and having a pair in each tank. Or any other suggestions? Ive got the syno's and I'd like some Botia loaches, some kind of tetra, and one or two breeding groups of dwarf cichlids. Firemouths at the largest.

As to the new regulator... do I get the GLA or one of the custom ones on the swap and shop??? I'd like to stay under $400..


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

The Dude1 said:


> Yes...
> And I need an honest opinion... should I replace those travertine tiles?? There is silicone.globs all over behind them.. I'm not sure what I could use to cover it. The silicone is on the inside. I will be picking up the new regulator with 3 outputs next week and I'll probably go with a 10lb tank. I'll have CO2 going on both 75's and the 150 so I should finally get some good growth.
> Or do I leave it and see how well the swords and crypt Balansae fill it in? Should grow quick with 3 52w T5 bulbs, injected CO2, and ferts...
> I'm figuring about 2 months before I can add the multi's and cichlids at one time to the 150. Still havent decided on stock. I'm entertaining putting one of the Apisto's in there and having a pair in each tank. Or any other suggestions? Ive got the syno's and I'd like some Botia loaches, some kind of tetra, and one or two breeding groups of dwarf cichlids. Firemouths at the largest.
> ...


My opinion . . remove the tiles! That doesnt look good and it wont work out long term.

You can get a scraper to remove silicone.

What I would do... is break down the tank, remove the silcone and set it up again.

Dont bother with CO2. Your african cichlids will tear up most of your plants eventually.

If you really want [email protected], then install a moss wall.. that will look great and the cichlids won't destroy it.

Can africans handle 6.5ph? Ive never seen an african tank with CO2.


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## lisals (Jun 21, 2017)

The growth will hopefully cover up any kind of globby silicone spot on the back of the glass. I'd give it time and see what happens. But then again, you're the one that has to look at it every day. Are those spots or the tile going to bother you until things do fill in?


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

ChrisX said:


> My opinion . . remove the tiles! That doesnt look good and it wont work out long term.
> 
> You can get a scraper to remove silicone.
> 
> ...


The Africans are in there short term. They are going to be moved to the 150 and I'm going to do something more suitable for a planted tank. If I were to break down the tank I would just replace it. Ill see what it looks like after I've pumped some CO2 in there. As to the big tank I'm just going to do a smaller amount of CO2. Not a full 1 point drop. If it adversely affects the fish Ill turn it down a little. Ive seen some African tanks with CO2. Needless to say they were pretty nice!
I think I'm going to keep an eye out for a nice 240. Ill put this 150 into the exercise room and move the Apisto's, Rainbows, and all that into the 240 and put that in the entry way.
You don't think Africans would tear up moss?? If not that would be awesome. They gobbled up the fissidins in one night.

Bump:


lisals said:


> The growth will hopefully cover up any kind of globby silicone spot on the back of the glass. I'd give it time and see what happens. But then again, you're the one that has to look at it every day. Are those spots or the tile going to bother you until things do fill in?


I was even thinking about finding some black tiles?? I may let it get jungle like and then just take the tiles out and live with it as a grow out type set up


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## KrypleBerry (May 23, 2017)

The Dude1 said:


> Very true. My issue is I need to get back into making lists. When I'm ordering stuff or at the store I get my intended purchase and I'm out. I don't think of the necessary ancillaries until I have a problem. I'll get a new master test kit today. I'm going to do a water change a day early. I saw all 3 nerites this morning and they look happy, but I don't want to chance it given the fert dosing and super low CO2 supplementation. I've got a scrubber and a magnetic one, but I REALLY want Oto's and I know you're supposed to have a good bit for them to munch on during their initial acclamation to have the best chance of survival. Maybe I'll get what I can get today and see where I stand. I'll hit the glass ansnthenndo the water change.


My otos went to a new qt tank and had to learn to eat algae wafers and zucchini. I didnt loose a single one. Ive noticed as long as they are in a group they do alright. They did sort of follow my clown plecos lead while spending 1 month in qt.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I haven't been able to find my lone oto... and I've seen 3 pink little bodies... so none of the Amano's made it. I'm not super impressed with the Nerites. Hopefully tomorrow I can get a group of 8 oto's and hope that 5 survive. Still getting some hair algae on the bolbitus leaves, the tops of the windolev java fern and some on the older top leaves of the ludwigia. I may try a group of 5 Amano's once the tank fills in a little more. They do such a great job. Seems like nerites do an ok job on hardscape.. but that's pretty much it. I had to scrub the back glass again. I had hoped the nerites and oto would help.

It seems like I've got to trim the stems every couple of days, but I don't see much growth on the java fern, bolbitus, lobelia... The Hygro is growing lots of leaves, but someone keeps eating them. Pretty much nothing on the Buces... The crypt Parva shot up some plantlets last week, but hasn't done much in the last several days it seems. Regulator is working perfectly and holding the bubble count. I think it will work perfectly for the 150. 
I'm starting to think one of the custom jobs by one of the guys on the forum would be cool if I could get something in the $350-$400 range with 2 outputs.


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## KrypleBerry (May 23, 2017)

Im about to get a double output reg from GLA for 255. The regs built on here look amazing though, like hotrods ontop of co2 tanks. Lol Siamensis algae eaters are some of the hardest working algae mowers Ive ever seen when young, but as adults can get a bit territorial and scrappy. A large tank could support a group of 5 or more and that could change their behavior with tankmates. Otherwise ottos are great, my stiphodons love algae of various kinds as well, bristle nosed plecos, rubber lipped plecos are good too. With ample places to duck and cover plecos wont dig too much and I havent had many issues. My nerites rescape more than anyone. Must have been what happened to the first chap that made escargot, got to admit I was tempted. Lol


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

My BN pleco's rasp leaves. I didn't want any of that. I want a small rather inconspicuous clean up crew not the loss of stocking possibilities with SAE's. I'm going to try to pick up some Oto's and bigger Amano's today. I'm going to talk with Alan Lee about getting a regulator done. I should be able to pick one up next week.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

So I picked up 7 oto's today. I think there's PLENTY of algae in my tank to fatten them up. Hopefully it's the kind they like for both our sakes. Alan Lee is modifying one of his sick regulator builds with another output. Hopefully my money is deposited this week so I can pay for some stuff LOL!!


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)




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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I'm going to order some female Caucatoides this week.... Hopefully Golds like my males... I'm also going to get some Apisto Borelli I think once those africans came be moved out of the lower 75. I'm hoping that a pair of Caucatoides and a pair of Borelli's can share a 75. As long as there is enough dense plant mass I think it will be fine. 
Found one dead Oto last night. I don't know if it's the original or one of the new ones. I've come to expect some losses with Oto's. The way they gather them is terrible...but the ones that survive will have a pretty charmed life in these tanks I think. I'm going to pick up some zucchini for them today to fatten them up after their arduous ordeal.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

This is the regulator Alan is building for me. Adding a second output and needle valve. I'm actually happy that this will be out and visible a long with my new shiny 20lb aluminum tank. It would be a shame to hide this nice looking gear. Thanks Dude!!


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

These Oto's have done a great job on the Bacopa. Hopefully they get to the Bolbitus soon


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

These are the two top dog Emporer tetras. It's like a full on cichlid show down... turning and shaking at one another then charging... fins are all flared out... I don't see any damage yet, but it's been going on for 20 minutes. They look insane with all their fins extended... unfortunately I've only got a phone


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## KrypleBerry (May 23, 2017)

The Dude1 said:


> This is the regulator Alan is building for me. Adding a second output and needle valve. I'm actually happy that this will be out and visible a long with my new shiny 20lb aluminum tank. It would be a shame to hide this nice looking gear. Thanks Dude!!


Very nice! Pardon me if I missed this in an earlier post but where did you get the new 20#? Im in the market for one as well.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Better pic with fins flared out

Bump:


KrypleBerry said:


> Very nice! Pardon me if I missed this in an earlier post but where did you get the new 20#? Im in the market for one as well.


Amazon prime. It's a beverage elements. It was like $120 shipped


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## KrypleBerry (May 23, 2017)

Haha, Im secretly addicted to shopping on Amazon so I dont browse too much these days. Lol I may have to peak in there for that. Thanks.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Could someone suggest something to use here to replace the ratty ludwigia ovalis?? It gets tons of light, ferts, and CO2, but it sheds the lower leaves and just looks ratty. Maybe pogostemon?? These guys are directly under the Ray 2 fixture. Can't get too much more high light than that... 
Burr740 or Greggz or immortal or Dempsey or PEdwards??? Anyone??


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

My experience with Ludwigia Broadleaf (not ovalis), is that it largely holds on to the lower leaves under moderate/high light. Mine were growing red at top in low tech and kept the green lower leaves. I think highish light is the primary concern, they did well with only excel in low tech. I had quite a few stems doing well for a long time. When the DIY lighting started to fail , they dropped their lower leaves. It looks like your stems are in the shadow of something.

My advice, either get more light to them, or put a larger plant in front. Im not an expert, but that it my .02. Even if they hold their leaves, ludwigia doesnt usually look good at the bottom.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Maybe I'll do a red Rubin Sword. That would be some nice contrast and I've got the crypts all around to fill in the bottom. Should grow pretty quick. Maybe I'll pick one up tomorrow. There are some nice ones at the place in Tampa and I need a distraction.
Or perhaps a large group of crypts?? Like Lucens or Lutea (always get confused on these) like what's in front of the wood on the left side?? Or Parva like the foreground?? Although the new growth is very small.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

My wife had a sleep study last night so that meant me and the puppy alone all night... we went for an extra walk around the neighborhood.. Mika loves her patrols... and then we discussed our plans with the fish tanks.
One of the cats has had enough of Mika I guess as in the last 4 days he's pee'd on my $1800 sofa 6 times, pee'd on my 5k mattress 3 times and last night he pooped on it. Kim is at her wits end with him, but I'm not willing to break up our family. 
Might try to get over to Tampa to see what they have. A sword may take over too much... I'd really like a medium sized bushy crypt. I was looking at Huduroi... looks pretty cool, gets big... I think that's the perfect fit. As is so common in life... just waiting on someone else to do their job and deposit my money into my account. It almost seems foolish to strap ourselves by making the mortgage and car payment this week when we will be paying both off any day now... but credit score systems favor the creditors... and I don't want to pay higher rates.


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## lisals (Jun 21, 2017)

Ugh... cat pee. Our cat has decided that he doesn't always want to use his litterboxes and thinks some spots on the carpet are the perfect spot to go. We can't even go in to the room over the garage without getting hit in the face with cat pee smell. /grumble stupid cats

Anywho... googled up the images for that crypt and that would look amazing in your tank! Hell, that would look amazing in any tank. What a great looking crypt! Love the crinkly leaves


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

lisals said:


> Ugh... cat pee. Our cat has decided that he doesn't always want to use his litterboxes and thinks some spots on the carpet are the perfect spot to go. We can't even go in to the room over the garage without getting hit in the face with cat pee smell. /grumble stupid cats
> 
> Anywho... googled up the images for that crypt and that would look amazing in your tank! Hell, that would look amazing in any tank. What a great looking crypt! Love the crinkly leaves


Tore out all the ludwigia and did some rearranging. Added another big group of crypt Lucens by the other group... then moved ALL the crypt Parva into the same area. I added a big mess of java fern that I'm trying to sort out next to the windolev. Probably not permanently. Then a couple crypt becketti then the crypt Lutea along the back. They grow up to 8" so that would look nice. When I get a chance I'll replace the mess of java fern with the crypt huduroi. I'm pretty happy with it despite the need to grow in. 

Hopefully the Oto's will make their way over to the Bolbitus and clean up those leaves. They seem to prefer one small area despite the near total absence of algae in that area at this point. The Bacopa Caroliniana is spotless now... I think I'm down to 5 Oto's. They are always together and that's all I can count at any point. As is often stated they very obviously prefer groups. I don't want to add any veggies or algae wafers given the immense diatom issue and their bellies are pretty plump. I'll post a pic up tomorrow. Looks pretty barron, but it's better than the ratty ludwigia. I'm going to clean it up tomorrow and put it in the bottom 75 so that there is more plant mass. I'll probably maintain a small group of it in that tank, but it certainly isn't the beautiful easy stem that is Bacopa Caroliniana. No loss of lower leaves.. no twisted stems... and no unsightly root growth from the exposed stems.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Well might as well get it on here


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

The Oto's have eaten at least half the algae that was caked on the bolbitus... amazing... at this point they are worth their weight in gold. I'd like to get a few more so that I've got a solid 8. Once the Bolbitus and java fern are clean what should I feed them? Is an algae water Ok? How do I ensure that they get to it and not everyone else? I'd rather not do blanched zucchini as it takes a mess and I don't want one of those clip things, but I will if I have to...

Still waiting on checks... so still waiting to get my new regulator and the last couple of additions to this tank. I'm getting pretty upset to be honest. I will call tomorrow I guess.

I'm really liking the Rustys in the lower 75. I'm thinking of getting several more. They would all be moved to the 150 at some point, but with a large group they are less likely to be targeted by the larger Haps. I'll snap a picture tomorrow when the lights come on again. I have a thing for copper... I carry a knife with custom copper handles, copper flashlight, copper tritium vial on my keys, even a copper love note that my wife got me for our 6th anniversary. Anyway... Rustys are copper colored with purple hues... stunning fish and they don't bother plants. 

The lower 75 is looking pretty barren since I pulled those crypts for the top tank. I don't think stems are for me so I'm going to get a bunch of anubias and ferns and stuff. Maybe wrap a bunch of stones in moss... definately going to dump a bag or 2 of eco complete to get a more natural darker look like lisals tank.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

All 5 oto's are out and doing well. I think they're out of the woods. I'd like to pick up 5 more and hope for a total of 8. I also found a pretty good size Buce underneath a mound of java moss that I've been growing out. Considering it was smal enough for me to miss initially and now it's the largest one I have speaks to the amount of light they like. The ones out in full light havent done much. Trimmed up the Bacopa and put some in the smaller tank and removed most of the ludwigia and rotala. Those stems just aren't really for me I think. 
The Hygro Pinnetifida is spreading like crazy... like weedlike. I think I'm going to use some in the lower 75 once I've got the CO2 going in there. I also moved a now HUGE rhizome of anubias azfelli into the 150. As expected it hasn't done much but I'm thinking of splitting it and using some of that in the lower 75 as well. I still want to get a large Red Sword in there, but everything is on hold until IBM gets around to sending my check. At least I'm happy with what's in the top 75 and how things are progressing in there. 
Hopefully next week will see the ordering of some Apisto Caucatoides females and a pair of Apisto Borelli as well as the new regulator and some plants. That's going to make for some awesome updates!!


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I'm undecided
Trio of Apisto Borelli 
Trio of Apisto Nijsseni 
Or trio of Apisto Baenschi...
Does it make any difference?


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## mbkemp (Dec 15, 2016)

I had borelli with Bolivian rams. They were too small. The nijsseni and baenschi are both pretty cool as well. The might fit the caca's better


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

mbkemp said:


> I had borelli with Bolivian rams. They were too small. The nijsseni and baenschi are both pretty cool as well. The might fit the caca's better
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I think I have my heart set on Baenschi. Hopefully I can get something going this week. Definately springing for overnight for them. They are tough to find.


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## mbkemp (Dec 15, 2016)

They are beautiful. Another bucket list item for me. For now, I hope you have great success and we all learn from your experience 


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Top tank is growing in nicely. The moss collects dirt so I'm thinking about another small powerheads. The crypts that replaced the stems are growing quickly and look great. I am happy with it now so let's see how it grows in. The moss isn't staying on the cichlid stones.. keeps coming off in sheets. I will need more of these with the new Apisto's I want to add so I'm thinking about drilling some small holes and packing in some moss fronds and hoping they stay put.
Bottom tank is always brown... probably from the diatoms on the tile. Once it grows in a bit I'll take those out. As of now even with the DIY CO2 and metricide it's growing like 4 times slower than the top tank. Hopefully I can get the regulator on and set everything up by next weekend. Haven't seen the second Rusty in a couple days... that sucks... I'm going to get 3 more. That should be a large enough group with the VC10, Copadichromis Chrysonotos, and Deepwater Hap along with the syno's. 
I'm going to add a good mass of plants once I get the CO2 up and running, but Bacopa Caroliniana will be the only stem. I can't decide if I want to do ANOTHER species of Apisto in here or transfer juveniles from the top tank. I'm thinking Lemon or Head and Tail light tetras. Really the only thing definately staying in the bottom tank is the syno lucipinnis which max at 4". I want some kind of dwarf cichlid and a decent school of something pretty. Any ideas are appreciated. I have to get a canister for this tank to set up the reactor so I'll probably go with the tried and true 2215 or 2217 despite the abysmal flow rating. It is actually beneficial for the CO2 reactor. 
Slowly tearing stuff out of the 11.4 to get it ready for something. Probably RCS. The dwarf Gourami has some sort of tumor growing on his mouth so I will have to put him down. I really like him, but he just doesn't work with what I want and he is on the decline for sure. I'm going.to find someone into Puffers to give my figure 8 puffer. He's a cool fish, just reclusive and doesn't work with what I want. I have someone in mind I hope. 
I'd like to try some harder shrimp as I did PFR's for a while, but I had no luck with OEBT. I would even like tiger shrimp. In that small of a tank i think I could just use RODI and get it to where it needs to be instead of tap like my other tanks. I'd like to get some colonies going at least in the top tank with culls from the shrimp tank.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Had the best idea... I'm going to pick up some sections of black egg crate to put in place of the tiles on the back of the lower 75 gallon. It will hide the silicone and make a cool spot to put some anubias or java fern


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Cleaned up the 11.4 for Carbon Rili shrimp. I took the Hygro corymbosa compacta out of the 75 as it was just getting munched to the stems. It's in the 11.4 now with some Bacopa. Should be able to get to ordering tomorrow. I did replace one of the Hygro corymbosa with a big Crypt Lucens. I think it will look nice once the Parva fills in and the Lutea in the back thickens up.


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## finfan (Jun 16, 2008)

The Dude1 said:


> Cleaned up the 11.4 for Carbon Rili shrimp. I took the Hygro corymbosa compacta out of the 75 as it was just getting munched to the stems. It's in the 11.4 now with some Bacopa. Should be able to get to ordering tomorrow. I did replace one of the Hygro corymbosa with a big Crypt Lucens. I think it will look nice once the Parva fills in and the Lutea in the back thickens up.



ugh, I cant see the pics


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Added a bag of Floramax to the bottom 75. I think it will look ok once I get those tiles out of there and the black egg crate


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

I like those pieces of wood. My LFS sometimes gets good pieces, but I havent seen any like that.

Does that stand have a 125 and 75g on it?? Where do you get something like that?


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

ChrisX said:


> I like those pieces of wood. My LFS sometimes gets good pieces, but I havent seen any like that.
> 
> Does that stand have a 125 and 75g on it?? Where do you get something like that?


I really lucked out. Ive got an LFS very close to me with bins of driftwood and mopani.. and the mopani is like $3 a pound. The driftwood is also pretty reasonable considering the size. That huge piece on the left side was like $35.

The stand is a heavy duty rack rated at 1000 pounds per shelf. It's got 2 75 gallons on it. There is another one that holds 2000lbs per shelf. I got mine for $89 at Lowe's. I like the industrial look..


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Not much to report. I'm thinking I'm going to have to trim the old leaves off the bolbitus. No algae on the new growth and over all I'm not having any more issues. I still want to pick up another 5 oto's. Paid for the new regulator today, but I still need to buy a canister and build a reactor for the bottom tank. I'm just going with one of the Sunsun's. 
I'm putting together a plant order that's going to hopefully finish off all 4 tanks. Buces for the top 75 and the 11.4. I'm not doing buces in the bottom tank until the African cichlids are moved to their new home. 
I'm going to pick up a couple of the really big anubias... I'm not sure which they are, but I really like the look.
I'm going to also get 3 Apisto Caucatoides females this week and see how they co exist in the 75. 
I ordered the black egg crate for the lower 75. I'm going to attach some anubias and some java fern to it. It's going to look killer... I'm super excited. I'm probably going to get a few big rhizomes and ziptie them to the egg crate.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

So I've got the black egg crate coming for the bottom 75. Also ordered a Sunsun 304b to use with the reactor. Hopefully the regulator is on the way. I'll get the fittings for the reactor tomorrow after class maybe. I need to pick up the female Apisto's, a large portion of some kind of java fern and anubias, and some buces and things. Should be looking good next week.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Tiles are out. Egg Crate is in. I'm thinking of fastening some needle leaf java fern to it. I really like it. Water is cloudy I just did a water change and vacuumed the substrate. Regulator is being sent our tomorrow. The new filter won't be here until Tuesday and I've got a cellular biology exam on Tuesday so I'll be studying until then. I'll probably pick up the fitting and build the reactor On Tuesday as well. I need to get some plant mass in there. The GSA is terrible. I'm only using 1 T5 bulb for 8 hours a day. Maybe cut back on ferts?? I dose excel and I've got the DIY CO2 going for now...


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## lisals (Jun 21, 2017)

Is the excel the only fert you're using?
If you're doing other stuff too, I'd probably cut back a little until you get more plants in there.
Some plants in the crate would look pretty cool. Eventually just have a big background wall of plants


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

lisals said:


> Is the excel the only fert you're using?
> If you're doing other stuff too, I'd probably cut back a little until you get more plants in there.
> Some plants in the crate would look pretty cool. Eventually just have a big background wall of plants


I do EI. About half of what it advises to dose. I may cut it down to 1/4 until I get the C02 hooked up. Ive got some Buce coming, but I'm thinking they will stay in the top 75. Should I do all one plant? I was thinking java fern... Maybe java fern trident would look cool?? I think anubias attached to the wood on the right side. Eventually I'd like to get more buces attached to lava rock and have little groups.


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## lisals (Jun 21, 2017)

The trident one is pretty darn neat. I think something like that or any other plant with a narrower leaf would look good. I myself would probably go with all the same plant, but mixing it up some would probably look just as good too.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

This is the new regulator that should be here Monday. I'm going to put this one on the 20lb tank to run both 75 gallons. The Aquatek will be moved to the 150 and hopefully get some of that anubias growing. It's going to be pretty awesome! The trio of female Apisto's wasn't available tonight when I tried to buy them so I'm hoping the guy gets back to me. I might build the reactor tomorrow just so I can hook stuff up as soon as the 304B gets here. Once I get it all up and running I'll figure out the plants for the background and the rest of the tanks. 
I found a couple places with carbon Rili shrimp so I'll probably buy 5 each from 3 different sources. I'm hoping the eventual culls allow me to get a population going in the other tanks.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Water is cleared up. I'm doing 20ml of metricide and cut lighting to 4 hours.


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Your new regulator reminds me of mine - only difference is I have 2 solenoids. One runs the 40g and the other runs the 75g.
BTW, really like the 2 tone wood flooring!


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Immortal1 said:


> Your new regulator reminds me of mine - only difference is I have 2 solenoids. One runs the 40g and the other runs the 75g.
> BTW, really like the 2 tone wood flooring!


I don't even see the solenoid on that pic. Both tanks are on the same rack so I think 1 solenoid will be good hopefully. Unfortunately that wood flooring will be coming up soon. My puppy knocked the water hose out of the top tank when I was filling it and I didn't realize until I had pumped 30 gallons of water onto my wood floors.


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Finally got a decent pic of my rig if it helps any,


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Linn that's like Planted Tank porn!!:grin2::grin2:


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Immortal1 said:


> Finally got a decent pic of my rig if it helps any,


Mine just came today too!! Honestly I don't know much of anything about regulators, but yours looks awesome!!

Bump:








I'm just blown away... first of all the packaging would have protected it from anything short of a nuclear bomb... and I GREATLY appreciate that... 
Secondly... wow... I will have this thing next to my rack, but I may put it right in front of the tank... thank you Alan Le... this was worth the cost... 
Unfortunately I didn't expect this until Tuesday. I didn't get the stuff for the reactor yet and the Sunsun won't be here until... Tuesday I think... I am very excited...


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

So it seems like it's one thing after another to get these tanks all going. I remembered to order 2 more bubble counters and 2 more check valves. So I think I'll have everything when the canister gets here Tuesday. I don't know if it's alright to hook up the regulator and leave the second output closed with just the needle valve. Since I've got things setup on the top tank I'll just leave it until I'm ready to run C02 into both tanks. I still need to get a 10lb tank and build a reactor for the 150.


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Great looking regulator - then again, thats what Alan builds.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I broke apart a huge anubias azfelli rhizome and put some in here. Mika was sure that you guys would want you see her more than the tank so I obliged.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I've run through all of the reputable breeders and Aquabid and no one will sell females... only pairs... I'm going to buy 2 pairs I guess and put the smaller gold Caucatoides and the smaller new male into the bottom 75 and hope they're ok with the little Africans for a few weeks. Should be ok... the little guys in the bottom tank don't seem to be aggressive at all.


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## Angella (Aug 11, 2017)

The Dude1 said:


> I broke apart a huge anubias azfelli rhizome and put some in here. Mika was sure that you guys would want you see her more than the tank so I obliged.


Mika looks a lot like my dog  Similar personality it appears, too. Love seeing the tank and her!


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

In between the two pieces of wood at the base of the branches I'm going to do some Buces. Eventually I'd like to get some good groups going along both pieces of driftwood as a transition from the anubias nana to the crypt parva.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

Do you trim everything short, or does it just grow low? I trim my tank down to the middle and its back at top in 1-2 weeks.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

ChrisX said:


> Do you trim everything short, or does it just grow low? I trim my tank down to the middle and its back at top in 1-2 weeks.


Everything stays pretty low... even the Bacopa is branching out from the substrate. I've only topped it once. Set up the filter, built the reactor, and got everything going tonight. Fortunately there weren't any issues to speak of. I love this 304B. It's huge and has great flow... for the money it's pretty much perfect.. the needle valves on the new regulator are awesome as I expected.. very easy to fine tune.. tomorrow the real growth begins LOL!! I'm a little wore out from this though so Ill probably leave the big tank for another time. Look at the size of the 304B compared to the 20# CO2 tank
















I'm going to straighten out that spray bar.. I'm just exhausted... but finally the bottom tank will start catching up to the top!! I should be getting some Buces this week and I think I'm going to break off a portion of the large anubias in the 150.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

What I learned is that you need to plan for explosive growth when scaping. Leave a little more space between plants and the rear glass. Yours should be fine.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

ChrisX said:


> What I learned is that you need to plan for explosive growth when scaping. Leave a little more space between plants and the rear glass. Yours should be fine.


I definately haven't seen explosive growth on anything. Everything is growing slow and steady though.. except my one bigger bronze becketti?? Crypt in front of the wood.. I've been finding alot of leaves from it floating around... I think someone is pulling them out somehow. The leaves aren't chewed on, but it was huge and bushy last week with maybe 15 leaves. It's looking sparse now... I only count 11 good leaves... hopefully once I get a little more plant mass the culprit will be able to spread out the damage to more plants minimizing the visual impact. I'm thinking I'm going to order 2 pairs of Caucatoides triple reds from ApistoDave. I'll move the one gold Caucatoides to the bottom tank and also the smaller of the male triple reds. That way I'll have 1 normal triple red male, 1 gold triple red male, and 2 normal triple red females in the top tank. I'm deciding on an Apisto pair for the bottom tank.

Bump:


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Big one








Smaller one

Bump:


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Buces arrived from member Shrimplife today... they're gorgeous. Five different types labeled and already growing on small lava rocks.. I love it. I paid like $25 SHIPPED for 5... I think 2 more orders and I'll have the Buce transition Ive been imagining. I still want some mounted on the driftwood to the left of the anubias nana (thats growing like wildfire). It seems like it took a while to get everything going or maybe I just had really small plants. Now things are growing good. I do 3 doses of macro's and 2 doses of micro's and then don't dose again until I do a water change. I try to do them every 7 days. I should do one tomorrow for sure.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

https://i.imgur.com/7GOEqiK.jpg
Got my water changes done and I don't know if it's wishful thinking, but things seem to be growing and alot less algae and diatoms.

Bump:









Bump: The bottom tank doesn't look anywhere near that yellow in person. I don't know why it looks like that.
That new large piece of anubias has already put out a new leaf.. I love that plant.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

The hygro Pinnetifida is dying. I don't know why... everything else is doing good. I ordered some blue / carbon Rili shrimp to get my shrimp tank going. I'm hoping to get a colony going in here with culls. Still thinking on the Apisto's.. I don't want to have to buy 2 more pairs to get 2 females and then have to put the males with the Africans in the bottom tank. That may be what I have to do though..


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## Jaye (Mar 11, 2015)

The only way I've found to make that hygro thrive is to somehow convince it you just don't care. Not terribly helpful, I know.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Jaye said:


> The only way I've found to make that hygro thrive is to somehow convince it you just don't care. Not terribly helpful, I know.


That's my exact experience! I tossed a couple stems into my little 11.4 and didn't do anything other than turn the lights on and off daily and recharge the DIY CO2 when I remembered. It grow like wildfire... now it's in perfect conditions with pressurized C02 and ferts and it's wilting away...
I also ordered a pair of Triple Reds from ApistoDave. Im going to just have to watch and see what happens. I'm undecided if I hope that the Triple Red Gold or the regular Triple Red breeds with the female.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Added some Bacopa Caroliniana and I'm thinking about some anubias nana.








I don't know what happened to the hygro Pinnetifida, but it was melting.. I just tore out what would come out. I'm still happy with how it's filling in. The moss is growing fast and really nice... I should have some to put in with some trident java fern on the mesh wall of the other 75 soon. 
I've got a pair of Apisto Caucatoides on the way. I may remove on of the Gold Caucatoides so that there are just the 2 males in there as opposed to 3. I might add another pair as that might be my only way of getting females. The lone males will get the lower 75 soon as the cichlids and syno's in there now should be ready in the next few weeks to go in the big tank. I also got 2 new timers so I can put the lights on timers as opposed to turning them on and off like I do know. I am going to have one set come on an hour after the C02 and then the other fixture come on 2 hours later. The main lights will go off when the C02 does, but the dimmer fixture will stay on for a couple more hours.
I got most of my stuff for the reactor for the 150. I want to bring the actual tubing in to make sure I get the right barb fittings.


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

You've got room to have two pairs of Apistos in one tank, why are you so adamant about only having a trio? Looks like your tanks are starting to get there. I'm enjoying watching the development of the two tanks at once.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

johnson18 said:


> You've got room to have two pairs of Apistos in one tank, why are you so adamant about only having a trio? Looks like your tanks are starting to get there. I'm enjoying watching the development of the two tanks at once.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I would ultimately like to have 2 pairs, but right now I've got 2 males and no one will sell females outside of a pair.. That will always leave at least one unpaired male per tank. They are so pretty that I really don't want to lose any. I'm hoping if I keep a single pair in a tank for a while that they will be successful in raising some fry and I can get my ratios evened out or at least diluted enough to not have fatalities. As long as the syno's are in the bottom 75 that leaves only the top one as a possible home for a breeding pair. These guys are gorgeous and full of personality. I can understand the following they have generated.


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## lisals (Jun 21, 2017)

Looking good so far 

Stay safe down there in Florida!


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

lisals said:


> Looking good so far
> 
> Stay safe down there in Florida!


Kind of funny.. my wife wanted to board up windows clean out the garage to get the car in there, buy more food and water (we have plenty) I was trying to figure out how to get all the equipment for the tanks onto the same small generator... I don't know what I'm going to do if the power does go out... I don't want to spend thousands on a generator for a house we are selling in 3 years...


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*75 gallon dwarf cichlids and Rainbows (now high tech!)*

Ah! I remember this now!


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I'm going to swing by Home Depot for the plug adapters I need for the timers and get the rest of the stuff for the reactor today. I've got ALOT of homework and studying, but I'd love to get the C02 pumping into the 150. Maybe even change out some of the crushed coral substrate to get the pH down to a more plant friendly level... anybody have any idea how much would be safe to change out at a time? I've got 3 filters on there... I'd like to get a nice sword and some crypts in there...


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I'm going tomorrow to get some multi outlets and another maybe 15 gallons of gas for the generator. I can hook up the filters and everything to the generator at least for a couple hours each day. Going to fire it up tomorrow and make sure everything is working as it should. I may have to figure out the draw and make sure the generator can run 8 filters.... probably not...
__________________

Bump: *APISTO HELP*

So do I remove one of the Gold males and put the new pair in with the other gold?? Or do I leave the 2 established males in there and just add the female?? I think the new male will be about as big as the Africans in the other tank so I think he'll be fine in there at least until they are big enough to move into the other tank... getting a successful breeding pair is pretty important to me..


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## lisals (Jun 21, 2017)

Just wanted to give a suggestion.
If you can get to Walmart or any sports place that sells fishing stuff... they have battery powered air pumps. 
The ones at Walmart that I bought.. bigger ones cost about 7something and smaller ones were 4something. They had different kinds but these were the cheapest ones









Not the greatest solution but it's something at least if your power goes out.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I got my head slapped on those bubblers. Almost $17 a piece and now I can't find D cell batteries


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## lisals (Jun 21, 2017)

Woah.. 17 a piece for the ones I pictured? There were some more expensive ones too. I remember seeing some black one for $20.
Yeah... I couldn't find any D batteries in walmart. Thankfully we have a Sam's membership and I found some there.
Anywho... stay safe down there. That hurricane is about to swallow you guys up.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Apisto's came today... just stunning... I put both into the top tank and planned to remove one of the Golds, but I struck out on catching them. Thus far everyone is keeping to themselves and tolerating one another. The female is gorgeous... and everyone is very interested in her. I have no doubt I'll get more Caucatoides from Dave and whatever other Apisto I choose. 









Bump:


The Dude1 said:


> I got my head slapped on those bubblers. Almost $17 a piece and now I can't find D cell batteries


Mine are only for 8 gallons too... I got 4 of them. If it comes to it I'll set one in each tank and run the filters for a couple hours each day on the generator.


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## mbkemp (Dec 15, 2016)

Those fish are special. I hope this storm is not what it looks like. Be well!!


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

The wife was put on Emergency Response so I won't see her until after the hurricane... we are pretty well set. I'll set up the bubblers as soon as power goes out and I'll work on getting at least the filters going on the tanks. I may have to alternate them. I'm going to get cooking tonight so I don't have to pull out the grille until after the storm


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## lisals (Jun 21, 2017)

Saw on a video that if your power goes out... Take as much of the filter media out and put it in to a mesh baggy or panty hose or something. Put it right in to your tank and then put the bubbler right under it so the bubbles go through it. It will help keep things going.
Stay safe!!!


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

lisals said:


> Saw on a video that if your power goes out... Take as much of the filter media out and put it in to a mesh baggy or panty hose or something. Put it right in to your tank and then put the bubbler right under it so the bubbles go through it. It will help keep things going.
> Stay safe!!!


I'm working out logistics now and I'm in good shape. My generator puts out 3250 watts continuous... I have an AC70 among other filters on each tank. The AC70 only uses 6 watts... so running 1 on all four tanks will only consume about 25 watts of my 3250 available!! I will keep lights and C02 off since I wasn't able to buy anymore gas cans. I filled up the generator with 5 gallons and I've got another 5 gallons in a gas can. Worst case i can siphon some gas from the Z06 that I pulled into the garage. Amazon shut down shipping at least in my area Thursday so I never got my propane stove. I managed to convince the guy at Lowe's to sell me a floor model propane grill that was already assembled for 20% off!! Good dude!! So even if power is out I'm pretty well set and my prized tanks shouldn't have much in the 2ay of problems... it might even help with the algae!!
Good luck on your end. People have been preparing for this for a very long time so I think we're going to be alright


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I managed to catch the largest Gold Triple Red and moved him into the lower tank with the Africans. Yes the biggest guy in there, but they won't be in there with him long. 
The regular Triple Red is still laying on the substrate in a crevice. He was being chased between them when I came in so he probably needs a breather. The good news is the other one is staying on his side and not venturing over to that area.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

The remaining Gold Triple Red was still relentless in harassing the new guy. It took a few hours, but I finally caught him and he will spend some time in the breeder net until the new guy makes himself at home and starts eating and swimming.


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## Angella (Aug 11, 2017)

Your tanks look so great! I love the apisto's and the moss.
Good luck during Irma, stay safe and keep your fishies safe! (sounds like you are)


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

*pre-storm update*








Unfortunately I found the larger Apisto up in the corner this morning. Although I didn't directly observe any bullying it's clear that's what was happening. As such he will stay in the small breeder net until I move those fish which will have to be soon. Some of them are very small, but they are close in size to the female Yellow Lab that no one bothers and I will introduce 4 cichlids and 5 Synodontis cats at least.. maybe all 13 synodontis.

The good news!! This guy is out and about and is either very inquisitive or very appreciative. As soon as he sees me he races to the front of the tank and starts posing.. as you can see he is striking with blue hues around his face.
I haven't seen the female more than a few times in the last couple days, but given the 2 hyper aggressive males and watching her partner being chased I'm sure she is hunkered down. 









The UGLY!!
The greyhound is my sister in law's. They decided last minute to evacuate and asked if I would care for him. He is a sweetheart and I have always liked him. When he arrived last night my puppy Mika went NUTS! She refused to calm down all night and we even tried to lock her in her crate, but she howled for hours... so no sleep last night... Considering this is her house she was gracious if not horribly annoying. They settled down this morning after I gave up on sleep. I got some last minute things done and I will be starting my homework momentarily. All the battery operated bubblers are ready to go and the generator is filled and ready to go. Lights and C02 will stay off until power comes back on, but on will run an AC70 on each tank along with the bubblers. The fish will have to go without food as well. Water change was due Tuesday and I just didn't have time... or bins that hadn't already been sterilized for drinking/hygiene purposes.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Anyone have advice on stocking as far as Apisto's??
The pair will stay in the top 75 and either I will add a second pair of Caucatoides or a pair of Baenschi.

As for the bottom tank both male Gold Caucatoides will stay there. I hope to come across some females for sale at some point. I was thinking if I did 2 pair of Caucatoides in the top tank, perhaps I would do a different pair in the bottom tank. I am open to suggestions as to what species to house with the Caucatoides?? Panduro? Agassizi? Borelli? Baenschi? What would have the highest likelihood of success?


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

The house is intact. Lots of damage to trees and some close calls, but structurally we are good. The fence was destroyed.. posts snapped. 
Today is Day 2 with no power. My little 3500w generator is powering the fridge, a single filter on.each tank, 2 large fans, and the cpap machines. Unfortunately we only had a 5 gallon gas can and it's burning through 5 gallon pretty quick. 
I've got a bubbler in each tank, but I'm thinking batteries will be done tomorrow... they say it could be a week without power. I'm grateful that it wasn't worse.
A couple of homes in the neighborhood were not so fortunate. Several homes had trees come crashing in... apparently the going rate is $1500 to saw the tree apart and lay pieces by the road..


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## Rogozhin75 (Aug 15, 2017)

Oh boy, I'm glad you're okay. I like your setup.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)




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## lisals (Jun 21, 2017)

Wow. Hope things are ok down there and you (and everyone else) gets power back ASAP.


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## giwan (Sep 11, 2017)

Wow, I'm glad things aren't worse for you, now let's hope you get power back asap!
great tank btw


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I'm thinking Panduro for the top tank. Any suggestions? I think a blue variety would be cool. Mcmasteri and Hongsloi are similar looking with all the red. I'm also considering Baenschi and Borelli...


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

And as soon as power comes back on everyone except the Apisto's are being moved to the 150. I was thinking of doing 25-50 Cardinal Tetras. I know 50 sounds like alot, but I figure at least 10-15 will not make it. I'm also thinking about Panda Corys... and then one pair of Apisto's.. is that a plausible combination to have some successful fry rearing? I know the tank will need to be more heavily planted, but it will get there quickly I think.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

Those apistos have really big mouths for their body size! I'm sure they punch above their weight.

They look pretty big overall; are they close to full grown?


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

ChrisX said:


> Those apistos have really big mouths for their body size! I'm sure they punch above their weight.
> 
> They look pretty big overall; are they close to full grown?


The one in the breeder net in the bottom tank is full grown. The others will get a litter bigger. I am hoping despite their smaller size that the fish will fare ok in the 150 as I need that bottom 75 now. Quite honestly I'm thinking about switching out all of the fish from the 150 and doing a big planted tank with a couple pairs of Apisto's and 50 Cardinal Tetras and removing all the crushed coral and putting in a plant substrate. I may look into that tomorrow.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Day 5... and no power. Any idea at what point the plants will start wilting? They aren't looking too great right now.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Power came on at 1230 today. We slept in the truck last night and that was horrible... It appears that all of the fish survived and although the plants aren't looking great it doesn't look to awful. The top 75 was cloudy, but that has cleared up some. I'm going to pick up some kind of frozen food for the fish as the Caucatoides look a little thin. They are both out so that's good. Didn't see them eat any pellets. I'm going to leave the tanks alone today and do water changes tomorrow. The house probably got to 88-89 over the last few days so the tank water will need to cool. This has been a terrible experience all the way arounnd.


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## mbkemp (Dec 15, 2016)

I'm glad your power is back on. Good news with no losses!! I bet your plants bounce back with some light


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## lisals (Jun 21, 2017)

YAY! So glad to hear your power is back on. I can't even imagine having to try to sleep with it being that hot. UGH!
And double yay for no fish losses!! Hopefully it stays that way 
I'd keep an eye on water parameters though just to make sure things stay ok.


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## giwan (Sep 11, 2017)

good to hear you have power again, and great to hear that all the fish survived! 
I'm kind of curious as to what the tank looks like right now (with it going for 6 days without power and all), could you send us a picture? 
anyways I hope your plants come back to their full glory asap


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

giwan said:


> good to hear you have power again, and great to hear that all the fish survived!
> I'm kind of curious as to what the tank looks like right now (with it going for 6 days without power and all), could you send us a picture?
> anyways I hope your plants come back to their full glory asap











They don't look much "worse" but obviously there is no growth and some of the plants look a little pale and weak

I also collected some driftwood from "Hurricane Bay" the other day. Nothing great, but it was free. I still need to clean it up, sanitize, and soak it.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

These two seem very friendly. They're together pretty much constantly. I have decided to keep these guys as the only Apisto's in this tank and hope that they are successful in raising fry.
I haven't figured out the other two tanks yet. I hope this week I can rehome the Africans and free up the 150 for Abacaxis and maybe Panduro. I haven't decided where the Gold Caucatoides will go.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

Are those the same variety? Will the fry be a hybrid?


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

ChrisX said:


> Are those the same variety? Will the fry be a hybrid?


Both of those are regular triple reds from an excellent source. I wont likely breed the Golds as I don't want to produce fish with a muddy phenotype and Golds are pretty rare it seems. 
Right now both Golds are in little breeder nets in the lower 75. I'd like to at least get the Africans out of there, but they're still pretty small and they are ALL males and super colorful already.

Bump:








I don't remember where I got this sword from, but I'm fairly certain it wasn't a red sword... so why is it producing red leaves now?


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Driftwood has been soaking for a couple days. I'm going to get out a few more buckets and separate the wood and weigh it down with stones to try to get it to water log and see how much good wood Im working with. I'm hoping to pack the bottom 75 with wood to create more Apisto hiding spot / territories.


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## ProndFarms (Sep 3, 2012)

The Dude1 said:


> Both of those are regular triple reds from an excellent source. I wont likely breed the Golds as I don't want to produce fish with a muddy phenotype and Golds are pretty rare it seems.
> Right now both Golds are in little breeder nets in the lower 75. I'd like to at least get the Africans out of there, but they're still pretty small and they are ALL males and super colorful already.
> 
> Bump:
> ...


That looks like a melon sword, which would explain the red leaves.

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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Haven't seen the Bolivian Ram since the power came back on. Haven't found a body, but it's safe to say for some reason she didn't make it. I also haven't been able to find the Copadichromis Chrysonotos in the bottom tank.. again no body. Turns out I had some losses.


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## geektom (Dec 17, 2012)

*75 gallon dwarf cichlids and Rainbows (now high tech!)*



The Dude1 said:


> Haven't seen the Bolivian Ram since the power came back on. Haven't found a body, but it's safe to say for some reason she didn't make it. I also haven't been able to find the Copadichromis Chrysonotos in the bottom tank.. again no body. Turns out I had some losses.




That stinks, friend. Sorry that happened.


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## lisals (Jun 21, 2017)

Aww, that sucks  Hopefully the bodies pop up soon so you can get them out.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Ya it's weird... both were super healthy and acclimated... lights came back on and haven't seen them. I looked all over with a flashlight last night.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

So... my air conditioner crapped the bed... 17 years old. Just replaced the washer and dryer and need a new fence already. So 8k later we have a new Carrier system and 10 year warranty with a NEST controller. I can control everything from my phone. Going tomorrow to get the fence and going to have them install. I'm going to go ahead and get a tankless water heater so I can completely redo the laundry room. Maybe a couple smaller tanks.
I'm going to try to get the Africans moved tomorrow so I can let the Apisto's into the lower 75. 
Not much growth to speak of, but algae is pretty much under control. I've also had that driftwood soaking so when I take everything out to catch the Africans I'll load it up with driftwood. I got some decent pieces. I should probably just catch them now...


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Oh damn, Dude! Sorry to hear about the AC on top of everything that's been happening lately! When it rains it pours, right?! I like that you're looking on the positive side and may get space for a couple more tanks out of it all! 

Good luck catching the Africans! I think catching fish is one of my least favorite parts of this hobby. It either goes super smoothly or you spend an hour ripping apart the tank in order to unsuccessfully get that last fish! lol. I look forward to seeing the tank packed with driftwood!


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

These guys are not happy. Moved the Africans out last night, but had to tear everything down. They were pretty stressed.










Most of the driftwood hasn't sunk despite being in buckets weighed down for more than a week. The big white stones are holding them down. Going to trim some more anubias from the big tank for this tank and can hopefully cover one of the big branches with buces.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Zapins has offered to send me 3 female Apisto's Caucatoides. I think 3 females with the 2 males in a 75 would work. I will add another Apisto too. I want to keep Abacaxis, Panduro, and Nijsseni so I'll add 1 group to this tank and I'll get another species going in the big tank eventually. I was thinking about adding the cardinals shortly. I think I'm backing down on rehoming the Africans in the 150 for now. Once I get the group's established in the 2 75 gallons I'll revisit making the 150 into an Apisto community.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

Those guys do not look happy. Have their fins been torn? Double check water parameters to make sure its not just stress from the african. Run less lights for a while. Fish > plants. Also make sure they are getting enough O2 if its a new high tech tank.

And make a divider! HD sells clear acrylic sheets you can cut to size. Drill holes for water flow. It is probably the most useful DIY thing I have made.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

ChrisX said:


> Those guys do not look happy. Have their fins been torn? Double check water parameters to make sure its not just stress from the african. Run less lights for a while. Fish > plants. Also make sure they are getting enough O2 if its a new high tech tank.
> 
> And make a divider! HD sells clear acrylic sheets you can cut to size. Drill holes for water flow. It is probably the most useful DIY thing I have made.


No they have not been in the open tank with the Africans. They were in breeder box nets. The Africans are gone. Just them and some synodontis cats.. dwarfs. Their fins are good. They have crazy long dorsal spines and extensions. Trying to get to the Africans with their breeder nets still in there was traumatic. They got knocked all over the place. I went as fast as I could, but it was rough for them. I cut the lights and C02 off several hours early today. I know they aren't happy with me. I think they'll perk up when they get some ladies to impress.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Put in a few more pieces of wood and holding them down with stones so it doesn't look all that great. It will look cool when I take the stones out though. Going to start packing the egg crate with moss and stuff now that the shrimp tank is sorted out. Should have 3 female Caucatoides coming. I'll probably add 35 - 50 Cardinals and another pair of Apisto's. Anyone know if a group of Corys would do ok with the temporary synodontis occupants? 

The 3 Africans I added to the 150 have been doing great. Cleaned out some areas in the rockwork and no one even pays attention to them. Once I can add the syno's I think I'll really dog that tank. Still need to pick up a filled 10# tank and hook up the C02.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

The glare from the window is terrible. The crypts are recovering from their melt. Hopefully the Becketti will put up some new leaves and fill in the middle better. I turned up the C02 a bit today. I need to mix up some more 4dkh solution.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I was able to remove one of the stones from the driftwood. Two more stones to go. Added some moss to the driftwood. I'll probably start packing the back wall with moss in the next week. I'm pulling out clumps from the top 75 every couple of days. Haven't yet decided between cardinal tetras and some species of pencilfish. I think dithers are absolutely essential with Apisto's. Otherwise they never come out


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I had hoped to get some fry to get the Emporer tetra number up, but nothing yet. Except for the one area right in the middle the plants are pretty dense. I'm wondering if I should pick up another group to get the numbers up... I was thinking 25 would look good.

Also how many Cardinals or Pencilfish would you think for the bottom tank? I would expect to lose about 25% when it's all said and done.. at least for Cardinals. There is a seller on Aquabid selling 50 for $50. I just wonder if that would be too many.


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

I've never lost Pencils like I have tetras. I think 50 is a good number, I'm up to 26 Nannostomus beckfordi in the 55.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Operation secret squirrel is back on so I decided to check some local spots. None of the fish looked good so I went by my favorite LFS on the way home and they had some nice looking cardinals and rummynose. They treat me awesome there and gave me them for $2 a piece!! I got 12 Cardinals and 8 Rummynose. The plan is to swing by next week and get both groups up to 20. No Rainbows in the bottom tank so I though 2 schools of small tetras would be cool. I'm taking my time acclimating them since the wife is in the exercise room doing cardio... I hope she doesn't see the bags!!


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I had enough of the big piece not sinking so I screwed a piece of slate on there. There are still 3 more good sized pieces that are going to go in here. My goal is to pack in as much wood / hardscape as I can and then pack it full of anubias, bucephelandra, and moss.
I LOVE the cardinals. Definately going to at least double that school. I'm going to break off some nana and put it in here. Suggestion as to where to place it? I think I'm pretty set on Panduro. 
So 2 male Gold Caucatoides 
1 Pair Panduro
30 Cardinal
20 Rummynose
And right now about 12 Syno lucipinnis. I may do Panda Corys. Are they as easy to breed as the regular green ones? 
Maybe 10 Panda Corys.

Bump:


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

The Dude1 said:


> Operation secret squirrel is back on so I decided to check some local spots. None of the fish looked good so I went by my favorite LFS on the way home and they had some nice looking cardinals and rummynose. They treat me awesome there and gave me them for $2 a piece!! I got 12 Cardinals and 8 Rummynose. The plan is to swing by next week and get both groups up to 20. No Rainbows in the bottom tank so I though 2 schools of small tetras would be cool. I'm taking my time acclimating them since the wife is in the exercise room doing cardio... I hope she doesn't see the bags!!


I still have 26 Neons in the 10g QT from around 40 (that died due to lingering illness). There are no signs of disease, but I'm not ready to put them in the MT because of the keyhole fry. I really wish I still had 40 because 26 neons in a 4' tank will disappear.

The neons are slowly growing, and my goal has been to get all of them large enough so they can't be eaten by a Keyhole, even if the Keyhole wanted to. (I feed them bloodworms, brine shrimp, and flake.)


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

ChrisX said:


> I still have 26 Neons in the 10g QT from around 40 (that died due to lingering illness). There are no signs of disease, but I'm not ready to put them in the MT because of the keyhole fry. I really wish I still had 40 because 26 neons in a 4' tank will disappear.
> 
> The neons are slowly growing, and my goal has been to get all of them large enough so they can't be eaten by a Keyhole, even if the Keyhole wanted to. (I feed them bloodworms, brine shrimp, and flake.)


The guy at the LFS said that Neons are hardier than cardinals. I thought it was the opposite. How long did it take for them to die? How long has it been since you lost one? I briefly entertained mixing Neons with cardinals, but I'm going to stick to Cardinals I think. They had Neons for $1 a piece. How big are your Keyholes? Have you added any bottom dwellers?


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## geektom (Dec 17, 2012)

The Dude1 said:


> The guy at the LFS said that Neons are hardier than cardinals. I thought it was the opposite. How long did it take for them to die? How long has it been since you lost one? I briefly entertained mixing Neons with cardinals, but I'm going to stick to Cardinals I think. They had Neons for $1 a piece. How big are your Keyholes? Have you added any bottom dwellers?




Neons and Cardinals are not interchangeable. Cardinals can indeed be very hardy, and live longer than Neons, but they like their water softer and warmer.

Neons can be hardy or fragile, depending on the breeder. When you are buying them in bulk, make sure to keep an eye out for ones that are slightly twisted, bent or seem to have a hollow spot where their belly should be- all signs of poor breeding. They are just waiting to die in your tank.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

geektom said:


> Neons and Cardinals are not interchangeable. Cardinals can indeed be very hardy, and live longer than Neons, but they like their water softer and warmer.
> 
> Neons can be hardy or fragile, depending on the breeder. When you are buying them in bulk, make sure to keep an eye out for ones that are slightly twisted, bent or seem to have a hollow spot where their belly should be- all signs of poor breeding. They are just waiting to die in your tank.


I'm expecting to lose 20%. After seeing these and getting them for $2 I'm going to call and ask them to get another 20 for me and maybe another 8 Rummynose. I think I'm going to go back tomorrow and pick up another 6 or 7 Emporer tetras so the top tank has a decent 15 total. I'll probably pick up 8 Panda Corys too. 
I need to move the Syndontis out of the bottom tank, but I'll have to tear it apart.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

The Dude1 said:


> The guy at the LFS said that Neons are hardier than cardinals. I thought it was the opposite. How long did it take for them to die? How long has it been since you lost one? I briefly entertained mixing Neons with cardinals, but I'm going to stick to Cardinals I think. They had Neons for $1 a piece. How big are your Keyholes? Have you added any bottom dwellers?


I had 38 for over a month and I thought they were doing great, but they came from the $1 petco sale and there were very minor ick spots on a couple, that would go away and then reappear.

I was treating with Kordon Ick Attack for 3 weeks and not making any headway, still a few spots here and there.. so I treated with Tetra Ick Guard for 4 days.. Within the 72 hours after end of treatment, 12 had died. They didn't die slowly. I would wake up each morning and five more would be dead, but there were no visible signs. A fish would start swimming disoriented maybe separate from the school, and would be dead in 3-4 hours. 

I completely blame the medicine; the fish were actually doing very well, all eating well, schooling, breeding behavior. The Ick Guard killed the cycle, yet I was dosing Prime daily and testing water, so there never should have been anything in the water to harm them. Maybe there was an unmonitored pH change. I am more sad than angry, but I will never use that product again.

I would say they are very hardy. If they are alive 72 hours after acclimation they should last a long time. The medicine did something to the water, even after lots of charcoal, a month later the BB is still not very strong, forcing me to keep dosing Prime and frequent water changes. I keep reseeding with floss from the canister but no luck.

Neons are more compatible with temps for Keyholes, and I like the fact that if the heater dies, they will do reasonably well at room temperature for a little while.


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

The Dude1 said:


> I'm expecting to lose 20%. After seeing these and getting them for $2 I'm going to call and ask them to get another 20 for me and maybe another 8 Rummynose. I think I'm going to go back tomorrow and pick up another 6 or 7 Emporer tetras so the top tank has a decent 15 total. I'll probably pick up 8 Panda Corys too.
> I need to move the Syndontis out of the bottom tank, but I'll have to tear it apart.


I have always experienced loses with both cardinals and neons, but after the initial loses they are pretty hardy. While I've kept them both, I've always preferred the cardinals over the neons. At $2 a pop, I'd definitely stock up. It sounds like you've already got some of the Emperor tetras, I'm sorry I don't remember this. If not, check to see if you can get Rainbow Tetras, Nematobrycon lacortei, they are absolutely stunning if well bred or wild caught. There is a local(well, at least in the state) breeder that focuses on many of the uncommon tetras, barbs and rasboras, and his Rainbow tetras are incredible.


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## Triport (Sep 3, 2017)

I've got my cardinals with green neons now. Cardinals are probably my number one favorite fish but the green neons are pretty neat. Sometimes they all school together and sometimes split up into two separate groups. I've always found with small tetras that some die off of a few fish is common and then things stabilize (though I have also had catastrophic losses where the entire batch dies and takes half the rest of the tank with them so you are smart to quarantine). 

Have your keyholes ever gone after and eaten small fish? I have mine with tiny pygmy corydoras, reed tetras, and pygmy hatchetfish (all not much bigger than my thumbnail) and the keyholes don't seem to show any interest in them.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

Triport said:


> Have your keyholes ever gone after and eaten small fish? I have mine with tiny pygmy corydoras, reed tetras, and pygmy hatchetfish (all not much bigger than my thumbnail) and the keyholes don't seem to show any interest in them.


My keyholes have only been in a species tank. Some of them are pretty big now so I dont want to take any chances. They have eaten some earth worms that are pretty big, so Idk if they will try to eat a neon.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Bottom tank 
All 12 Cardinals are looking good. I lost 1 Rummynose leaving me with 7.
They are getting more Cardinals on Wed so I'll add another 10 -15 and then maybe 10 Rummynose. I would like to give the Syno's a chance to get some size before moving them into the 150. I'll have to tear up the plants and scape to get them so I'll add a pair of Apisto's at the same time. I've always loved loaches so I may add a group of botia loaches.

Top tank
Going tomorrow and I'm thinking I'll get 5 more Emporer Tetras (bring me up to 15) and a group of 6 Panda Corys. I may add another Apisto pair here too. It's been several months and no Emporer tetra fry so they aren't going to successfully improve my group size on their own as I had hoped.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

The Dude1 said:


> Bottom tank
> All 12 Cardinals are looking good. I lost 1 Rummynose leaving me with 7.
> They are getting more Cardinals on Wed so I'll add another 10 -15 and then maybe 10 Rummynose. I would like to give the Syno's a chance to get some size before moving them into the 150. I'll have to tear up the plants and scape to get them so I'll add a pair of Apisto's at the same time. I've always loved loaches so I may add a group of botia loaches.
> 
> ...


Don’t they randomly drop their eggs all over? I feel like I read somewhere that to breed them you should have a lot of moss and or spawning mops.


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## Triport (Sep 3, 2017)

I think most tetra eggs and fry are so small that the odds of any surviving in a tank with other fish to predate on them isn't very likely. Maybe a few here and there if the tank is lightly populated and the plants are very full. My diamond tetras constantly lay eggs and the cardinals and other fish eat them before they even hit the ground. I have considered taking a pair out and having them drop eggs in a tank on their own to get some fry but I really don't have the space right now.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Nlewis said:


> Don’t they randomly drop their eggs all over? I feel like I read somewhere that to breed them you should have a lot of moss and or spawning mops.


Ya apparently they scatter a few eggs at a time over several hours. The profiles i.read said that they are one of the few tetras that will have some fry survive in a densely planted tank. The right and left sides are super dense and the right side has moss all throughout. I'd rather just pack it full than have to stick with light stocking. I'd like to get to 20 Emporer Tetras in the top tank I think. I've never had a heavily stocked tank with lots of tetras so I really want to pack the top tank with action if breeding success is unlikely. Maybe I'll finish up the top one and then work on the bottom one.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Everybody likes pics. I think I'm going to do one thing at a time. Right now I need alot more Emporer Tetras so I'll get those tomorrow. Then maybe a group of Pandas after


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Dude that tank is starting to look good! I personally love the shots from one end, like your first pic here. I'm really digging all the Crypts on the right end. Those are nice little clumps of C. parva! 

I saw an excellent presentation on breeding tetras, barbs & small rasboras at our local killi club's annual event. It was given by the breeder I mentioned earlier who had the stunning Rainbow Tetras. The way he did it was quite simple, though he did use a separate 5g tank. I will see if I can find the video of his talk. I know the club was recording the presentations that day so I should be able to find it. 

I know the feeling of never having had a heavily stocked tank full of tetra type fish. My 55, with all of its golden pencils, seems so heavily stocked to me because that group is massive. I don't normally go for such a massive school of a single fish, although I have usually stayed with just a single school of fish. The N. beckfordi don't really school together in my heavily planted jungle scape though. There are usually several small schools. For the most part the the males have all spread out and set up territories and actively "defend" them from other males while constantly attempting to woe the females. It's quite a sight to see. I almost think it is more interesting behavior than if they just made a school & went from side to side. 


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I hadn't seen the female Apisto in several days. For some reason the moss keeps coming off the cichlid stone in the left corner so I gathered some up and was going to superglue some on. When I grabbed the stone she came charging out LOL! Needless to say I put it back down. I never saw her turn bright yellow and I can't see if there are eggs. But she isn't leaving.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I added 10 Emporer tetras and 6 Panda Corys to the top tank after doing a water change. The Emporers grouped up immediately. The Rainbows are pestering the Corys frequently. I'm getting some green hair algae so I'm thinking of modifying my light schedule. I'd also like to get some Amano shrimp to grow out in the shrimp tank... once I get the tadpole out of there that somehow got in.
I've now got about 
20 Emporer tetras 
1 Apisto Caucatoides pair
2 Goyder River Rainbows 
2 Bosemani 
2 Millenium Rainbows
3 Oto's
6 Panda Corys
4 Nerite snails 

There were 3 Cardinals that I didn't get the other day so I got those for the bottom tank.
That's 15 Cardinals 
7 Rummynose
10 - 12 dwarf synodontis 
2 Male Caucatoides


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I'm going to finish off stocking of the top tank. How large of a group of Panda Corys. I was thinking 10? I am going to try to remove eggs if I find them.
How many Emporer Tetras? Despite there being 20 in there it doesn't seem like that many.
If I accept the likelihood that the Caucatoides will not successfully rear young could I add another Apisto pair? I would like Panduro. Is that OK?
Lastly I was hoping to add more Oto's and maybe some Amano's once I grow them out. I've cut off the lower light Beamswork that was coming on at 930am and off at 8pm. Now lights come on at 8am and will go off at 5pm. Kind of sucks for viewing as that is my "me" time. 

I'm rolling through ideas for the bottom tank. I love the Cardinals and Rummynose. Maybe 30-40 cardinals and 20+ Rummynose. I HAVE to have Panduro in this tank if I can't have them in the top. I'm leaning toward some Botia loaches, but I don't want anything that will cause aggression or chaos in the tank. Maybe clown loaches? I would rehome them when they reach 4+" or so. 
If possible I'd like to get 2 pairs between the 2 tanks and I'm open to suggestions.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

My female Caucatoides has a bulging eye... she is the only one in the tank with any symptoms and I just did a water change on Saturday... I don't know what to do... Otherwise she is acting normally. She is always reclusive. Any thoughts?


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

The Dude1 said:


> My female Caucatoides has a bulging eye... she is the only one in the tank with any symptoms and I just did a water change on Saturday... I don't know what to do... Otherwise she is acting normally. She is always reclusive. Any thoughts?


Do you have a QT? Those $1 Neons might have wiped out my Keyholes if I didn't quarantine them. It seems like you added a bunch of new fish; they could have brought something.

IDK anything about bulging eyes. Pop eye?


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

ChrisX said:


> Do you have a QT? Those $1 Neons might have wiped out my Keyholes if I didn't quarantine them. It seems like you added a bunch of new fish; they could have brought something.
> 
> IDK anything about bulging eyes. Pop eye?


No I don't have a QT at the moment. I was hoping to have them set up 2 weeks ago in my remodeled laundry room, but it hasn't worked out. It wasn't a good idea adding them without QT. This particular store quarantines for 5 days, but that just means 5 days before they sell them. I rarely see her and I only had a couple minutes today to look at the tank. I lost 1 Rummynose in the bottom tank, but nothing in the top tank that got the emporer tetras and Corys.
So out of like 40 fish I've lost 1. I love having that place local.
I added 
15 Cardinal
8 Rummynose 
10 Emperor Tetras 
6 Panda Corys 

I'd like to add another 6 Pandas this week. Maybe next week I can get the Apisto's I want and another group of cardinals and Rummynose for the bottom tank.
I'm thinking 2 pair of Panduro for the top tank. Hopefully I can find all of them from the same person.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

No sign of the female Apisto Caucatoides... and I spent some time looking with a flashlight. There are numerous places that she could hide, but normally she comes out when I'm looking for her. Zapins is sending me some females fortunately. Haven't decided if I want to rehome the gold Caucatoides and have just a trio in the top tank. I would like to do that, but I have to know they are going to a good home and preferably local. So I don't think it will happen. Got hit with another $800 expense. My Z06 has 15k miles and already needs new front tires and I found this out when I was having the Z07 package installed as I want to take it to one of the HPDE events in Daytona. Why have a 650hp race car if you're not going to race it right? I swear the tanks are my only "reasonable" expenses / hobbies...


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)




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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I had hoped to add another group of Panda Corys, but it was not to be... they are popular. I did pick up 2 Amano shrimp that I'm going to grow out in the shrimp tank. I also got 5 Cardinals to bring my group up to 20 and a single Rummynose... I felt so bad for him all alone. Now he will have a group.
Hopefully Wed I'll add 4-6 Panda Corys and Zapins is sending me 3 Apisto Caucatoides females!! Haven't decided where they will go yet. The single female is alive and well in the top tank and my 2 Gold bachelors are doing well in the bottom tank. Maybe another to the top tank and hope for a trio and the other 2 to the bottom tank? There will be no fry rearing in the bottom tank with the Syno's in there.

ALSO
I am not having much growth AT ALL from the bolbitus.. and alot of the fronds are coated in BBA I think. I really stirred it all up as well as the substrate right before the water change. There are tremendous dead spots, but it's almost all or nothing. When I aim a powerhead at the area the black sand blows around and the fish don't like it. It's the lack of circulation that I believe is the cause of all my algae issues. 
I'm also thinking about changing my light schedule. My days don't really settle down until 7pm and my lights are off at 5pm. I'm thinking about starting C02 at 10am and lights at 11 to 8pm? Maybe I should push it back to 11am and noon and cut off at 8pm?


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## Ben Belton (Dec 12, 2008)

The Dude1 said:


> I'm also thinking about changing my light schedule. My days don't really settle down until 7pm and my lights are off at 5pm. I'm thinking about starting C02 at 10am and lights at 11 to 8pm? Maybe I should push it back to 11am and noon and cut off at 8pm?


I do the same thing. If my lights go off early, I don't get to enjoy my tank because I am at work. So I have them come on at 4pm and off at 10pm.


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## mbkemp (Dec 15, 2016)

Me too. I had hair algae. I knocked lights back to 6 hours total, and both lights for four hours only. I also was not getting enough co2 in the tank so I have co2 pushed up to 2.5 hours before lights come on. That has me at .8 of a point drop in ph when the first light comes on




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

The Dude1 said:


> ALSO
> I am not having much growth AT ALL from the bolbitus.. and alot of the fronds are coated in BBA I think. I really stirred it all up as well as the substrate right before the water change. There are tremendous dead spots, but it's almost all or nothing. When I aim a powerhead at the area the black sand blows around and the fish don't like it. It's the lack of circulation that I believe is the cause of all my algae issues.
> I'm also thinking about changing my light schedule. My days don't really settle down until 7pm and my lights are off at 5pm. I'm thinking about starting C02 at 10am and lights at 11 to 8pm? Maybe I should push it back to 11am and noon and cut off at 8pm?


When I first attached my Buce to its driftwood, some of the original roots died and the root structure was covered in BBA.

I took out the log and did a five minute, 20% H202 dip. Put the log back in the tank and within a week, all BBA was gone.

Maybe you can dip your plants and replant them? If they are in danger, maybe plant them in a clay pot with soil under sand that puts them closer to the light? 

H2o2 dip seems to be a cure all.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I will try that. It's mostly on older anubias leaves. I think the bolbitus is too far gone. It was in my 150 slowly declining for months in the very high pH with no C02. I'm not sure which anubias, but it's a large variety and it looks gorgeous when it establishes itself and starts throwing up leaves. I may have to hack through the bad bolbitus and hope the remaining fronds do something.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

The Dude1 said:


> I will try that. It's mostly on older anubias leaves. I think the bolbitus is too far gone. It was in my 150 slowly declining for months in the very high pH with no C02. I'm not sure which anubias, but it's a large variety and it looks gorgeous when it establishes itself and starts throwing up leaves. I may have to hack through the bad bolbitus and hope the remaining fronds do something.


3% H2O2 makes 20% of the dip.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

ChrisX said:


> 3% H2O2 makes 20% of the dip.


My brain has been nothing by Trig for the last 3 days and numbers are running together. Are you saying 2 parts 3%h2o2 to 8 parts water?


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

One of the buces put up a gorgeous bloom... and then I found my single female caucatoides dead about a foot away...
Ive got 3 females coming from Zapins this week so I'm going to move the lone male from this tank and he will join the 3 females in the bottom tank. I can then house maybe 3 pair of Panduro in the top tank. That's the plan at least.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

The Dude1 said:


> One of the buces put up a gorgeous bloom... and then I found my single female caucatoides dead about a foot away...
> Ive got 3 females coming from Zapins this week so I'm going to move the lone male from this tank and he will join the 3 females in the bottom tank. I can then house maybe 3 pair of Panduro in the top tank. That's the plan at least.


I'm sorry for your losses. Are apistos fragile fish, or is it possible they don't like your water parameters? Or have they been killed by aggression? I don't know anything about them other than they are small, beautiful, and expensive.

If they are dying because of disease, I would set up a quarantine and hit every new fish with a round of API General Cure. It may be your sourse is selling diseased fish. I set up a 10g QT for about $30.

What are your water parameters?


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I'm a little stumped. Temp is 77, pH is 7.2-6.3 gassed. Last test was 180 or so TDS... just under 200. I don't let nitrates get over 25 (probably less now since I stopped dosing 6 days a week). I haven't lost a fish in that tank in months I think. There didn't seem to be any bullying. I did notice that my male was on top of the powerhead at the back top of the tank today when I looked to possibly remove him... I don't know what that's about. There are no aggressive fish in there.... I've purchase 4 Apisto's over the last several months and I only had an issue with the female in this tank... which is pretty heavily planted and it's a 75... I'm stumped. She had been in there a while too. 
The 3 females arrived from Zapins today and they are gorgeous. After a 2 acclimation they got right into the tetras and started checking out the tank. I'll add the male from the top tank when I can find him again. I'm going to do only the Panduro in the top tank.... 3 pairs... and I'll hopefully get 3 pairs of Caucatoides going in the bottom tank. I'm really stumped on the death. I just changed the water the day before... added dechlorinator just in case... waited a day to dose ferts... Everyone else is thriving. I didn't even lose any of the Emporers I added a while back.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

Have your apistos made any breeding moves? Set up territories? Display to each other? Dominance displays? Etc...

Your tanks are not overstocked, if the parameters are good, they will try to breed.

Imo 25ppm nitrates is too high. I keep below 10, below 5 lately. Not saying that killed your fish, but 25+ nitrates affects their color, their behavior. I lost my snails from nitrates, and keyholes in 29g are less flirtatious when nitrates higher. Do they get enough oxygen? My tanks were o2 deficient in morning, plants consumed it all at night, they use more if growing well.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

ChrisX said:


> Have your apistos made any breeding moves? Set up territories? Display to each other? Dominance displays? Etc...
> 
> Your tanks are not overstocked, if the parameters are good, they will try to breed.
> 
> Imo 25ppm nitrates is too high. I keep below 10, below 5 lately. Not saying that killed your fish, but 25+ nitrates affects their color, their behavior. I lost my snails from nitrates, and keyholes in 29g are less flirtatious when nitrates higher. Do they get enough oxygen? My tanks were o2 deficient in morning, plants consumed it all at night, they use more if growing well.


The pair had only been in the top tank for a few weeks. The female was mildly reclusive, but I would occasionally see him display to her... since her passing he hasn't left the back right corner even for frozen shrimp... he would follow me around the front of the tank and almost jump for shrimp before she died.. I maybe saw her come of to eat 25% of the time. He has gotten really dark too. I don't know... she died 2 days after a water change so nitrates were probably 5ppm. I dont think I had even dosed.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I didn't realize the glass got so funky so fast, but I grabbed a couple pics of the 3 females I got from Zapins. They are gorgeous and have already ALL turned bright yellow. As you can see the bachelors are very interested. It's amazing the difference girls make. I did find the male Apisto in the top tank just now. He is wedged into the corner of the tank in the Bacopa and he is super dark. He didn't come out to eat again today. I hope to catch him and move him tonight. Better to die in battle with the other Caucatoidesin the pursuit of females than to waste away in loneliness in this tank. I feel bad for him. The top tank is literally packed with wood and plants are growing quickly so he should be able to carve out a niche.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

The Dude1 said:


> I didn't realize the glass got so funky so fast, but I grabbed a couple pics of the 3 females I got from Zapins. They are gorgeous and have already ALL turned bright yellow. As you can see the bachelors are very interested. It's amazing the difference girls make. I did find the male Apisto in the top tank just now. He is wedged into the corner of the tank in the Bacopa and he is super dark. He didn't come out to eat again today. I hope to catch him and move him tonight. Better to die in battle with the other Caucatoidesin the pursuit of females than to waste away in loneliness in this tank. I feel bad for him. The top tank is literally packed with wood and plants are growing quickly so he should be able to carve out a niche.


Buy an acrylic sheet from Home Depot and make a tank divider. (Or just use a sheet of plastic to separate off part of the tank until he recovers. He doesnt have to die.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

9


ChrisX said:


> Buy an acrylic sheet from Home Depot and make a tank divider. (Or just use a sheet of plastic to separate off part of the tank until he recovers. He doesnt have to die.


He is in the top 75 alone for now and not eating or moving. I'm not going to move him unless he recovers. Additionally I found a total of 5 Cardinals dead over the last 3 days. All but one were attached to the large circulation pump. I have yet to see one doing poorly, but in the mornings there are 1 or 2 attached to the pump. I took the large circulation pump out and replaced with a much smaller Koralia. 
Sucks. I'm down to 10-11 cardinals, but still have my 8 Rummynose. Next time I swing by the LFS I'll pick up at least 15 Cardinals and 8-10 Rummynose for the bottom tank and maybe 4-6 more Panda Corys


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

The Dude1 said:


> 9
> 
> He is in the top 75 alone for now and not eating or moving. I'm not going to move him unless he recovers. Additionally I found a total of 5 Cardinals dead over the last 3 days. All but one were attached to the large circulation pump. I have yet to see one doing poorly, but in the mornings there are 1 or 2 attached to the pump. I took the large circulation pump out and replaced with a much smaller Koralia.
> Sucks. I'm down to 10-11 cardinals, but still have my 8 Rummynose. Next time I swing by the LFS I'll pick up at least 15 Cardinals and 8-10 Rummynose for the bottom tank and maybe 4-6 more Panda Corys


The only explanation for all your fish woes is that you are getting stressed or diseased stock from your LFS. I would definitely set up a QT. 

I got a 100 watt heater for $10 from amazon, a 10g tank from petco dpg, and a Tetra 20g in-tank filter for $10 from Petsmart sale. I used leftover acrylic sheets and Led lights for the top. Please set up a QT. Its not your fault, but you need to take precautions when buying from there.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

ChrisX said:


> The only explanation for all your fish woes is that you are getting stressed or diseased stock from your LFS. I would definitely set up a QT.
> 
> I got a 100 watt heater for $10 from amazon, a 10g tank from petco dpg, and a Tetra 20g in-tank filter for $10 from Petsmart sale. I used leftover acrylic sheets and Led lights for the top. Please set up a QT. Its not your fault, but you need to take precautions when buying from there.


I guess it's possible, but many of these fish Ive had weeks. I will say that my lower 75 is WAY too cold for the Cardinals. I found one spinning near the surface and just scooped him out and tossed him. Then put my hand in the top 75 which is set at 78 and noted it was MUCH warmer than the bottom one. I must have disturbed the heater control on the bottom tank at some point. I am now trying to bring it up to about 79* which I know is still low end for Cardinals... I'm not really sure how to proceed. The space is not available for another tank at the moment. I suppose the best course of action is to let everything settle and stabalize. Then maybe I'll do 30 Cardinals and 20 Rummynose in some kind of QT to see if I can't get these schools where I want them. So close to what I want in the top tank. 5 more Panda Cories and 3 pairs of Panduro and it will be set! I also started dosing metricide again to try to get rid of some of the persistent algae. I'm wondering if that played a part.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

Neons are supposedly hardier then Cardinals. At least they like lower temps, so if the heater fails, they will survive.

I still have the remaining 26 Neons in my QT. They seem happy, are voracious eaters, and school. Some day they will go into the MT..


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

ChrisX said:


> Neons are supposedly hardier then Cardinals. At least they like lower temps, so if the heater fails, they will survive.
> 
> I still have the remaining 26 Neons in my QT. They seem happy, are voracious eaters, and school. Some day they will go into the MT..


I am regretting not doing Neons. They're like $1 a piece everywhere where as Cardinals are usually $3 a piece. 
I had to get out of the house today for a but so I went by the LFS and got 10 more Cardinals and the last 2 Rummynose in addition to 3 Panda Corys for the top tank. I'm hoping these guys all do well because I would like to do 1 more big addition and be done. If everyone survives I'd like to add 10 more Cardinals and 10 more Rummynose. I really like the cohesiveness of a good size school of 1 or 2 tetra species. I am considering 50 Neons though if I keep losing the cardinals one by one. 
Water change tomorrow.
It's probably going to be a month or more before I can add the Panduro. Finally sprung for a new 2 in 1 laptop. $1800 later... ugh


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I noticed this guy today. I'm 99% positive he is from the batch I got yesterday. Usually the owner or one of the girls selects my fish and they always get me the best looking ones so I don't bother to point them out. This other guy was there yesterday and I think he just scooped out what he could. This looks like a fungal thing so good clean water with water changes should clear it up, but I may try to remove him anyway. He is a bit off from the.group, but it doesn't appear to be serious. I don't want to tear up the tank to get him and most reports of fish seem to recover from fin rot. Well... that didn't work. Fin rot isn't contagious right?
When changing the water in the top tank I found what looked like a Walking Dead Caucatoides. Eyes sunken in.. face bloated, and some white film on his body and clamped fins. I was able to scoop him out by hand and quickly put him out of his misery. I've never actually done that... the worst I couldever bring myself to do was freeze them... but he was in bad shape. I'm a little bummed.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

I would treat the tank like a large QT. When you add your last batch of schoolers, I would do API General Cure for parasites and something else for bacterial and fungal.

When I got my initial allotment of Neons, there were a couple rough looking fish, one had its tail bitten off, and there was another fellow I named "Tatters" because he had a ragged look (some spilt fins). I gave the tank API General Cure after acclimation losses.

It wasn't until two weeks later that I noticed a mild Ick outbreak, and of course it was Tatters that had a couple spots. An occasional spot would end up on other fish, so I was running a treatment of Kordon Ick Attack.  

I was at 38 fish after acclimation losses. After treating them for a month with Ick Attack (there were a few lingering spots, I decided to step up to Tetra Ick Guard, and 5 days later I had lost 12 fish. That is a harsh, fast acting med and it wiped out the weaker fish.

Interestingly, the majority of fish I lost were larger fish, the smaller ones survived. I suspect I picked up some long term residents from the Petco slum tank.

Point is that disease and stress can linger in the fish. Better to treat early and sustain losses that (might) be replaced by store.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

ChrisX said:


> I would treat the tank like a large QT. When you add your last batch of schoolers, I would do API General Cure for parasites and something else for bacterial and fungal.
> 
> When I got my initial allotment of Neons, there were a couple rough looking fish, one had its tail bitten off, and there was another fellow I named "Tatters" because he had a ragged look (some spilt fins). I gave the tank API General Cure after acclimation losses.
> 
> ...


I had not considered that. I've never treated a tank so I'll have to make sure that there will be no adverse reactions specifically with the Syno's in there.... they are quickly becoming a favorite. I'm thinking your advice would make the most sense rather than adding 10 at a time. Suck it up and order 30 Cardinals and 20 Rummynose and then treat the whole tank with general cure. It's like $50 a pop at my weekly trip to the store and everything was good for a while then I lost like 5 in 2 days. I'm still wrestling with adding Neons... I wish I would've gone with them from the start, but this time it's really important to me to keep number of species to a minimum and large cohesive groups.
I'm going to separate that one if I can catch him. The tufts on the spots are already gone, but there are obvious colorless patches.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

The Dude1 said:


> I had not considered that. I've never treated a tank so I'll have to make sure that there will be no adverse reactions specifically with the Syno's in there.... they are quickly becoming a favorite. I'm thinking your advice would make the most sense rather than adding 10 at a time. Suck it up and order 30 Cardinals and 20 Rummynose and then treat the whole tank with general cure. It's like $50 a pop at my weekly trip to the store and everything was good for a while then I lost like 5 in 2 days. I'm still wrestling with adding Neons... I wish I would've gone with them from the start, but this time it's really important to me to keep number of species to a minimum and large cohesive groups.
> I'm going to separate that one if I can catch him. The tufts on the spots are already gone, but there are obvious colorless patches.


Total up the cost of meds to treat a 75g and see if that won't cover the cost of a QT.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Before thinking of just moving the filter in the top tank I trimmed the Bacopa. I will let it recover and reach near the surface. I'm not sure about the lobelia cardinalis. How are you guys getting it so dense and uniform? Are you cutting tops and replacing bottoms? Or are you just cutting a little lower than need be and then replanting the tops next to them? Some of mine are pretty tall now. At least 6 inches. 
Bottom tank. Moved the driftwood around and replaced a couple pieces. I think there is about as much in there as I can stuff. I also swapped a large portion of the anubias azfelli with a portion grown in th3nshrimp tank which is beyond perfect. Hopefully the shrimp will clean that portion up. I still need ALOT more anubias, but as it grows I like where it is and can't bring myself to trim it! I need to get my C02 system hooked up on my 150 so I can get some growth out of that.
I don't know about that sword plant. It's staying right around 6" tall... that wasn't the plan for that plant. I added some root tabs. Once it grows in I'm confident that the Caucatoides will have plenty of places to rear young once the Syno's are out. I'm back to about 20 Cardinals and 10 Rummynose. It's getting there... slowly.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

As of now I've lost 4 Cardinals of the 8 I bought at least that's how many bodies I've recovered. There are still enough to make it difficult to get a good count. I think I'm done with these at least for now and in these increments. I'll start adding to the Rummynose group preferentially. Of 15 Rummynose I've lost 2 I think. They are substantially more hardy. I may just get a huge group of Neons at $1 a piece. That's what I should've done from the start.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

The Dude1 said:


> As of now I've lost 4 Cardinals of the 8 I bought at least that's how many bodies I've recovered. There are still enough to make it difficult to get a good count. I think I'm done with these at least for now and in these increments. I'll start adding to the Rummynose group preferentially. Of 15 Rummynose I've lost 2 I think. They are substantially more hardy. I may just get a huge group of Neons at $1 a piece. That's why I should've done from the start.


Check your water, neons and cardinals will be the first to go due to poor water quality.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

*Massive Die Off*



Nlewis said:


> Check your water, neons and cardinals will be the first to go due to poor water quality.


Just did a water change yesterday. Right this moment pH is about 6.6, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 5ppm nitrate. I lost another 4 Cardinals, 2 Rummynose, and ALL 3 female Apisto's. I'm done. Maybe I'll revisit these in a few months, but I've had enough. Maybe because I disturbed the substrate and moved some plants around last night? Popped in a couple root tabs? Added a piece of driftwood. Whatever it is I'm done. Ive killed like 20 fish or more in 2 days I'm including 4 female Apistos and 1 male. Easily $150 in fish. I even added Prime just in case they treated the water due to the hurricane. Not a single Rainbow, Cory, Emporer Tetra, or Synodontis cat. This is stupid. If I find myself interested in these tanks in a few months maybe I'll order a large group, add them all at once and run a treatment of general cure. As of now these tanks are on their own. I'm beyond pissed. Maybe I'll update in a couple months if anything is still alive.

Bump:


ChrisX said:


> Total up the cost of meds to treat a 75g and see if that won't cover the cost of a QT.


If I decide to come back to these at some point I will absolutely set up a 10g and QT. I'm done for now. I lost more than I added. They all looked great except that one. All the corpses looked great too. It seems I can't keep Apisto's, cardinals, or Rummynose alive. I'm so angry. I need to find something else to occupy my interest for the time being.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

What do the bodies look like? Any signs of illness? I’d fear columnaris, what have you added recently besides the apistos?


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Nlewis said:


> What do the bodies look like? Any signs of illness? I’d fear columnaris, what have you added recently besides the apistos?


The bodies looked perfect... over the last few weeks I've just added a few groups of cardinals and Rummynose as well as 3 Apisto females that were doing awesome up to me finding them dead this afternoon.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Ok, so to be on the safe side don’t cross contaminate the other tank. Of more start dropping dead it may be time for a tear down. If it is columnaris, that bad and they’re are several strains. If it does come down to a year down, then bleach everything, throw away all plants and move forward.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

The Dude1 said:


> As of now I've lost 4 Cardinals of the 8 I bought at least that's how many bodies I've recovered. There are still enough to make it difficult to get a good count. I think I'm done with these at least for now and in these increments. I'll start adding to the Rummynose group preferentially. Of 15 Rummynose I've lost 2 I think. They are substantially more hardy. I may just get a huge group of Neons at $1 a piece. That's what I should've done from the start.


Nothing wrong with Neons.

There was some early light before the Neon tank's light went on this morning. I couldn't see ANY of the Neons... then I realized they had been sleeping in a cluster under the in tank filter and behind the flower pot. (like a little cave)

All 26 of them were huddled up in a 2x3" area. 

A large school of Neons is mesmerizing and you can have a school 3x as large for the same cost as Cardinals. They say Cardinals are tighter schoolers, but I think if there is even a mild threat in the water, the neons will shoal tightly.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

ChrisX said:


> Nothing wrong with Neons.
> 
> There was some early light before the Neon tank's light went on this morning. I couldn't see ANY of the Neons... then I realized they had been sleeping in a cluster under the in tank filter and behind the flower pot. (like a little cave)
> 
> ...


Rummynose are tight... Cardinals can occasionally group up. I saw the Apistos charge at the cardinals a couple times and it was amazing how they grouped up. It was everything I wanted. The local place I order does 30 Cardinals for $74 and I could drive to Sarasota to pick them up. I'm going to invest in some testing stuff this weekend so I have better information for review. Or I could do twice that many Neons and the Cardinals would blend right in... 
As I get older I really want a massive school of small tetras... maybe 70 in a 75. Once the plants fill in more I think Ill need that many. 
The flip side is Ive got 21 Emporers in the top tank and you normally don't see more than 10 -12 at a time. They are aggressive and chase others away. I'm afraid to add another 20 like I would like in fear of another die off.
What kind of TDS should I be aiming for?


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

No deaths for 2 days. I'm still going to leave things alone. Not feeding frozen shrimp and adding some days in between fert doses. Ive decided to a lot 3 weeks before deciding what I'm going to do. I'm going to keep an eye out for one of those $ per gallon sales and maybe another sponge filter and air pump. Rather than take anything from existing tanks I think I'll add the sponge to the shrimp tank for a couple weeks to get the BB going then place it in QT. I really like the larger size and subtle differences of cardinals and the fact that I already have them, but I'm really nervous about dropping another $100 on a small group of them.


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Petco has the $1/gal sale going on through Nov 18! Go get yourself a QT! It's completely with it. I've been buying sponge filters off Amazon, but they ship from China & take forever! If you need one let me know, I may have bought a ton & then found the previous order that I never used. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

The Dude1 said:


> No deaths for 2 days. I'm still going to leave things alone. Not feeding frozen shrimp and adding some days in between fert doses. Ive decided to a lot 3 weeks before deciding what I'm going to do. I'm going to keep an eye out for one of those $ per gallon sales and maybe another sponge filter and air pump. Rather than take anything from existing tanks I think I'll add the sponge to the shrimp tank for a couple weeks to y5get the BB going then place it in QT. I really like the larger size and subtle differences of cardinals and the fact that I already have them, but I'm really nervous about dropping another $100 on a small group of them.


Not a fan of sponges because you cant seed them. I made a bottle filter with floss an noodles, seeded from mt, air powered. Free. You can prob make one with what you have already.

I got this one for qt, works well for $10. Amazon.com : Whisper In-Tank Filter 20i with BioScrubber for 10 - 20 gallon aquariums (25817) : Aquarium Power Filters : Pet Supplies


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

ChrisX said:


> Not a fan of sponges because you cant seed them. I made a bottle filter with floss an noodles, seeded from mt, air powered. Free. You can prob make one with what you have already.
> 
> I got this one for qt, works well for $10. Amazon.com : Whisper In-Tank Filter 20i with BioScrubber for 10 - 20 gallon aquariums (25817) : Aquarium Power Filters : Pet Supplies


Good find! Imay try it for $10. It's just for qt and hopefully I can break it down after. I've lost another 3 Cardinals in the last 2 days. Counted 9 Cardinals and 6 Rummynose remaining. That sealed the deal for me. Cardinals are out. Perhaps Neons. We will see. There is a couple listing for 20 for $25 plus shipping. Is there a difference between a more reputable seller or are all neons the same? I can get them locally for $1 each. Should i just ask the LFS to order 40-50 for me and pick them up as soon as rhey come in? Do you put anything in the QT to help them relax and feel safe? The Bacopa grows quickly so maybe that and some rocks?


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Anyone have any experience with blue flame Columbian tetras? They are pretty and pretty reasonably priced


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

The Dude1 said:


> Good find! Imay try it for $10. It's just for qt and hopefully I can break it down after. I've lost another 3 Cardinals in the last 2 days. Counted 9 Cardinals and 6 Rummynose remaining. That sealed the deal for me. Cardinals are out. Perhaps Neons. We will see. There is a couple listing for 20 for $25 plus shipping. Is there a difference between a more reputable seller or are all neons the same? I can get them locally for $1 each. Should i just ask the LFS to order 40-50 for me and pick them up as soon as rhey come in? Do you put anything in the QT to help them relax and feel safe? The Bacopa grows quickly so maybe that and some rocks?


Neons are cooler water fish. They prefer 72-75* I think.

Check the video on my channel that shows the QT w neons and that filter.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Down to 6 Cardinals and 6 Rummynose. I was up to like 15 or more before this last group. I knew the no QT thing would catch up to me at some point.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

The blood bath has subsided. No deaths in 3 days. Ive decided to move the Apisto's to the top tank. Syno's to the 150 Peacock Hap tank, and I will move the remaining 6 Rummynose and 6 Cardinals to a 10 gallon QT. I'm going to swing by the LFS tomorrow and check out the dwarf Rainbows. They had quite a few Gertrude, Furcata, and Threadfin in there the last few times so lets hope they have a good looking group. I think I'm going to build up the Furcata in the top tank with my lone female... or should I do a combination of Furcata, Gertrude and maybe even Threadfin in the lower 75? I'm leaning toward trying to build up a nice group of Gertrude and seeing if I have some breeding success. A heavily planted 75 with just Gertrude, Rummynose, and Cardinals seems like it would be a good place for rear some fry. Ive got some pretty dense spots in there are a tremendous amount of driftwood.

I'm still considering some ideas, but I need to move the synodontis to the 150. I know I cant use a net. I'm thinking I need to remove all of the hardscape and anything else that is removable. How do I get them out? I know they get tangled in nets so?? I guess try a small plastic cup thing? Theyre probably 2.5 - 3' or so


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)




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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I got all the syno's moved from the 75 last night. At least 8 were packed into the little cichlid stones so I just grabbed the stone and transferred them into the bucket. The rest... believe it or not... I caught by hand! I would simply follow them around and slowly cup my hand around them and wait for them to swim into my palm... which they did quickly and then I transferred them to the bucket. It was a very cool experience. Unfortunately I wasn't able to get a good count. I transferred at least 8 by hand and I believe there were another 8+ in the cichlid stones. They are still smaller compared to my Haps and Peacocks which seem to have grown substantially since the last time I really looked. I have a couple fish that are probably very close to 8". Seeing these little guys in their gangbuster groups gliding over and in between the plants and stones and filter intakes is awesome. I'm super motivated to pick up the 10lb CO2 tank and get it hooked up to this tank now. I still need to put together the reactor and run it inline with the XP3. 

That leaves the Apisto's and the tetras in the lower 75. Moved some stuff around and I think I like it. Large mass of driftwood on one side and a smaller open area on the other. Plants need to grow in and orient themselves correctly, but that should happen quickly with the amount of CO2 and ferts I dosing in there. 
Also of note I noticed some bubbles coming from the sand when I disturbed plants. Worried that it may kill the already fragile tetras I dosed a cap of prime and did my 30% water change. Everyone looks good and is eating today.
I'm going to make a post in the fish section, but for those of you following Ive got about $100 to spend on a group of fish for this tank. I don't know what to get.
I cant stomach any Rummynose or Cardinals right now
Lemon Tetras seem hardy and nice looking, but kind of plain and they don't seem to group well from what I see on YouTube.
I REALLY want Gertrude Rainbows, but 
1. They only live a year
2. LFS probably only has 5 or 6 in stock
3. Do they stay at the surface like the Furcata? 
I really want something that will stay at about 3/4 of the way up and also group to some extent. I would really like something that may have success with fry in this set up. Lastly, but also of importance is I want something unique and pretty. I don't like the Rasboras at all. I'm also not a fan of some of the super small micro fish. I don't know why but they don't do it for me.
I also really find myself drawn to the red and blue Columbian tetras. I think Diamond tetras are nice, but Ive only seen them once and I need to make sure they are as spectacular as I remember. Whatever I get I want a massive group... which may preclude the Columbian tetras. Of paramount importance... no plant eaters, no nibblers, no pulling up of plants.. nothing.
Suggestions??


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## mbkemp (Dec 15, 2016)

Diamonds are my vote. I have them and columbians. The columbians are like an idling ski boat. Lots of power but they hang around a lot. The diamonds dance. They are active like barbs 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

Neons are my vote. Or if you want something hardy, Bloodfin tetras. 
Just get $30 of neons/bloodfins ($1/ea) and see if they can make it through quarantine.

Once they make it through 3 weeks in QT, then either get some more, or QT another group.

I think it would be good to get the large schools started first. I would hesitate to buy more expensive tetras until you've actually transferred a group through QT successfully.

Bloodfin tetras are tight schooling, very hardy tetras that swim at mid/top.

Bloodfins might be my next large school if I can find them on sale.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

Seems like we have gone full circle!

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/21-fish/1055521-bloodfin-tetras.html

What happened to your 25 Bloodfins in the 75g? They are hardy fish, if they died I would do a thorough investigation of your water and/or fishkeeping techniques.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

ChrisX said:


> Seems like we have gone full circle!
> 
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/21-fish/1055521-bloodfin-tetras.html
> 
> What happened to your 25 Bloodfins in the 75g? They are hardy fish, if they died I would do a thorough investigation of your water and/or fishkeeping techniques.


I LOVED them. At that time we were at our old house and had my brother and his daughter living with us. Whether accidentally or intentionally I think she may have introduced something. Additionally the pipes were bad and actually led to us moving so its possible that something was contaminating the water. Very good ideas.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

Love the way the bloodfins school.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

ChrisX said:


> Love the way the bloodfins school.


This is my obsessing talking, but I would need to rehome the Cardinals and Rummynose. But an eventual school of 60 Bloodfins would look really cool and then do 40 Neons... It would be very similar to the cardinals and rummynose that I originally wanted and as you mentioned from a cost perspective I could do 3 times as many. That leaves some room for a few losses in QT

Ive given this some thought and its a great idea. It stays super close to what I wanted originally, but gives me some breathing room in quarantining / treating a large group of tetras. I'll see if I can pick up maybe 20 of each of 40 of 1. As long as things go ok from there once they are out of QT Ill add a smaller group say 10 of each of the Cardinals and Rummynose. Technically I will have 4 species in there, but from a few feet away it will like like only 2 species. 
Great idea ChrisX. Thank you

What do you recommend for acclimating? Wait and see or treat them in a preemptive strike? General Cure and food for Ich??


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

The Dude1 said:


> This is my obsessing talking, but I would need to rehome the Cardinals and Rummynose. But an eventual school of 60 Bloodfins would look really cool and then do 40 Neons... It would be very similar to the cardinals and rummynose that I originally wanted and as you mentioned from a cost perspective I could do 3 times as many. That leaves some room for a few losses in QT
> 
> Ive given this some thought and its a great idea. It stays super close to what I wanted originally, but gives me some breathing room in quarantining / treating a large group of tetras. I'll see if I can pick up maybe 20 of each of 40 of 1. As long as things go ok from there once they are out of QT Ill add a smaller group say 10 of each of the Cardinals and Rummynose. Technically I will have 4 species in there, but from a few feet away it will like like only 2 species.
> Great idea ChrisX. Thank you
> ...


The bloodfins form tight clusters. The rummynose constantly swim left-right-left.

Neons cluster really tight when there is any perceived threat. My 26 sleep in a tiny area in the corner of the tank behind a flower pot. When lights come on, I can't see any of them.

Not sure I would do 40 fish again in a 10g QT. The neons didn't seem crowded, but my filtration was not up to snuff. It can be done, but I would be very careful and do big WC every few days. Larger or more active fish probably won't pack as tightly.

Here is the QT med video I mentioned.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Barely made it to the LFS tonight. The shipment of cardinals looked awesome, but I was understandably nervous. They gave me the Neons for $.90 each and $2.50 each for Rummynose. Bought all they had along with 7 gorgeous celebes rainbows. Decided to treat the entire 75 gallon tank. They didn't have general cure, but they had and recommended Paragaurd and I got a 500ml bottle for $10. Also got a jar of Ich shield food. I'm pretty excited. I would like to add more, but I think this is pushing it. If this goes well I will add 10 Cardinals and 20 more Neons in 14 days and use the small tank. 
So I got 7 Celebes Rainbows
10 Rummynose
15 Neons. It's all they had. Everyone looks really good. I'm acclimating them now and I'll probably put them in before bed and dose the tank for the first time. I've got several bags of activated charcoal atthe ready.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I'm going to wait maybe 5 days and see how this goes. If losses are minimal how many Neons could I do in addition to 10 Cardinals and 10 more Rummynose?? I've always wanted a trio clown loaches too. I eventually would like a big group of celebes too.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Bump:


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Stopped back by the LFS after my Dr appt and saw they missed 4 nice looking Neons. I also got 5 Cardinals since it worked out to about 20 bucks for 10 fish. I was very close to picking up a group of clown loaches, but I read some posts about clowns eating neons. I don't want any of that going on. I also tried to purchase the last two Celebes in the display tank, but the girl said she would have to tear everything out of the tank and even then would likely not be able to catch them. I can understand that. She's going to get some more in next week. I think I'm going to bring my group up to 15 from the nine I have now.
Thus far I lost the one Neon, but he was questionable in the bag so they gave me an extra. Also lost 1 Rummynose. As of now everyone looks great. One of the Celebes is a little emaciated, but is eating and active. Adding the new fish in a few minutes after a 2 hour acclimation. Then I'll dose again.
What am I doing about water changes?? I'm due for another this weekend, but how does that effect dosing and such?


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

The Dude1 said:


> Stopped back by the LFS after my Dr appt and saw they missed 4 nice looking Neons. I also got 5 Cardinals since it worked out to about 20 bucks for 10 fish. I was very close to picking up a group of clown loaches, but I read some posts about clowns eating neons. I don't want any of that going on. I also tried to purchase the last two Celebes in the display tank, but the girl said she would have to tear everything out of the tank and even then would likely not be able to catch them. I can understand that. She's going to get some more in next week. I think I'm going to bring my group up to 15 from the nine I have now.
> Thus far I lost the one Neon, but he was questionable in the bag so they gave me an extra. Also lost 1 Rummynose. As of now everyone looks great. One of the Celebes is a little emaciated, but is eating and active. Adding the new fish in a few minutes after a 2 hour acclimation. Then I'll dose again.
> What am I doing about water changes?? I'm due for another this weekend, but how does that effect dosing and such?


Another thought regarding your losses...

I found that standard EI dosing put Nitrates very high, 30+, and absolutely required 50% WC every week. Even then, nitrates were in a range that could be dangerous for fish.

Given that Nitrates of 80ppm killed my nerites, its reasonable that 30ppm nitrates are not "good" for fish. When nitrates get into the 30-40ppm range in my Neon QT, the fish lose a bit of color. I can tell they dont like even 30ppm.

I have been using fractional doses of EI since raising my fry. Try to keep Nitrates < 10ppm. EI dosing basically BLASTS the tank with ferts so there is no deficiency, 4 PAR lights, soil, and heavy plant mass. EI will cover it all.

Your tanks are lightly planted, they probably need 1/4th EI dosing or less.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

ChrisX said:


> Another thought regarding your losses...
> 
> I found that standard EI dosing put Nitrates very high, 30+, and absolutely required 50% WC every week. Even then, nitrates were in a range that could be dangerous for fish.
> 
> ...


I remember you talking about this. Over the last few weeks I have been cutting down on not only the dose, but the frequency. Right now I'm doing 1 tsp KNO3, 1/4 tsp of the other 2 once a week and I'm doing 1/4 tsp of plantex once a week. I've cut down on the light intensity too. I haven't gone to 24/7 C02, but I'm trying to keep it more stable. Most of my plants are slow growers too. So far I'm loving the Neons. They look much better than I imagined. It's very hard to tell the difference between them and Cardinals even when they are near one another. 
I've always wanted a densely planted tank filled with schooling fish. I plan on getting up to 
20 Cardinals (just because I do notice some difference)
40 Neons
20 Rummynose 
15 Celebes Rainbows. I'm hoping I could collect some eggs from the Celebes and hatch them in my shrimp tank. 
I added the second dose today and noted one of the big Rummynose starting to float when it stops actively swimming. I'm thinking some sort of swim bladder thing. Going to feed some blanched peas tonight.
Did a water change on the top tank and noticed the Emporers grouped up really tight.... but I only counted 12. Couldn't find anymore... and I haven't found a dead one in months... a really long time. I should have about 20 I thought... should I try to tear up some of the driftwood to look for bodies?


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

From here on out I'll use my Surface Pro 4. I'm sure the camera is better. This was the result of sitting in front of the tank for an hour following him around with my phone. I love the tank now... but it doesn't allow me to stock what I want. I'm considering trading these 2 for an 8 foot tank in this room. Have a reactor on each side... I could do a small group of the larger Rainbows, group of Neons / Cardinals, Rummynose and maybe emporers... or maybe I'll trade them in.. I'd really like some space for a trio of Clown loaches and still have the possibility of collecting some eggs. I could do the Apisto's in there too. Just so many species I want to keep.
I'll get a couple bags of black sand tomorrow to cover the white sand in the open area.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Top tank is looking good. I'm thinking of adding 2 male Red Laser rainbows and 3 clown loaches.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

The Dude1 said:


> Top tank is looking good. I'm thinking of adding 2 male Red Laser rainbows and 3 clown loaches.


Do it....you've got plenty of room.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

The Dude1 said:


> I remember you talking about this. Over the last few weeks I have been cutting down on not only the dose, but the frequency. Right now I'm doing 1 tsp KNO3, 1/4 tsp of the other 2 once a week and I'm doing 1/4 tsp of plantex once a week. I've cut down on the light intensity too. I haven't gone to 24/7 C02, but I'm trying to keep it more stable. Most of my plants are slow growers too. So far I'm loving the Neons. They look much better than I imagined. It's very hard to tell the difference between them and Cardinals even when they are near one another.
> I've always wanted a densely planted tank filled with schooling fish. I plan on getting up to
> 20 Cardinals (just because I do notice some difference)
> 40 Neons
> ...


Some of my original batch of neons were doing this. Feeding less helped. Maybe one of the meds helped. Fish aren't doing it now.

I know that the one that had its tail fin bitten off in the store had the floating the worst. Its like it could not keep itself level, its tail was always floating up. That fish survived everything and even its tail is mostly grown back.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

ChrisX said:


> Some of my original batch of neons were doing this. Feeding less helped. Maybe one of the meds helped. Fish aren't doing it now.
> 
> I know that the one that had its tail fin bitten off in the store had the floating the worst. Its like it could not keep itself level, its tail was always floating up. That fish survived everything and even its tail is mostly grown back.


It has stopped this today. Fed a few mushed up peas last night. I think its the same one, but now his tail is white and he is swimming a little differently. Obviously an underlying parasite or infection. I'm pretty confident he will recover. He is really large and seems tough. 
Found a single Neon between the black egg crate and the glass... in the tiny 3" by 3" area they all grouped into. Not sure if it was an accident or what, but he was pretty banged up in the process of removing him. I fixed the egg crate and will start attaching anubias as soon as the med treatment is done. Everyone else looks great and they are eating like piglets.
Came really close to getting some clowns this morning... but one tank at a time. I'm thinking my next group with be a trio of clowns, 2 male Red Laser rainbows and 5 or 6 more Pandas. Picked up a 20 long and Ill swap the filter into that for QT for the next group since they are going into a different tank. 
Not sure if I'm going to add to the group of Emporer tetras of get a little group of Furcata to make my lone female happy.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I told myself I was going to do it... no fish until the full treatment of Paragaurd was completed... and I did it (so far). When I went today to get a couple Red Lasers and Panda Corys I saw a single Celebes in with the larger Rainbows. He was stunning... but I'm like 4 days into treating that tank... but 10 sounds so much better than 9. I could chance it and add him... or add him to the QT, but then im adding 30 Neons to the QT this week... I stuck to it. I'm pretty confident he will be there Thursday and perhaps I'll drop him in the QT with the Neons or if he is still looking as good as he is now I will add him to the tank for the last week of treatment with Paragaurd. The Celebes and Red Lasers had been there for 6 weeks according to the owner. He said the Red Lasers just started showing some color. They were in with threadfins and juvenile (no color at all) Congo's so no one even considered them. 








This is an older pic of one of the Milleniums. They are super active and hard to catch without a total blur. I'll try to get some more pics tonight when the Red Lasers settle. I'm thinking another 8 Pandas and getting the school of Furcata back up to 8 should be pretty much where I want it. I asked the LFS to get in 2 male Kamaka Rainbows too. I think that will be about the limits for stocking... maybe add some more Emporer Tetras

Bump:
























The glare in this room is too bad to get any decent pics of the Red Lasers, but they are awesome! The Neon blue color is insane.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

This will be the grow out for the Celebes. I'll take the sponge filter out of here for the QT for the Neons. I got a pair of 20 long so I asked the LFS to get me 50. I'll run them through 14 days of Paragaurd and see how they do. I can throw the hornwort in there with them and some anubias to make it less stressful. Is 50 tops for a 20 long QT? Could I do 20 Bloodfins as well? I would like to get to where I want them without adding group after group and chance introducing some crazy pathogen. If not could I do 60 Neons?

I may not have mentioned it, but I've got some anubias and a red flame sword coming for the bottom tank this week. I need to figure out where and what I'm going to plant to cover that silicone... the bottom tank was originally just going to be a grow out / QT so I didn't mind the mess. I think the 2 swords, Bacopa, and crypt Balansae will eventually do a good job of it


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I feel like a total idiot. The dose of Paragaurd is 5ml per 40L or... 10 gallons... meaning I should be dosing 35ml daily... not the 9ml I have been doing... so I did the remainder of the dose tonight. I added 2 more Celebes females to the tank since they looked great and have been in the store since I bought my original group. I also purchased 12 large Neons. They looked awesome. They were added to the 11.4 along with a 5ml dose of Paragaurd. I'll treat them for 2 weeks and then add them. If all goes well I will do 30 Neons next time.

Bump:
















Also spoke to the owner tonight. I said I wanted a group of Kamaka Rainbows, but I only want males when I only want them if they already have strong color. He had no problems and said he would like to add some to his own display tank. He says that he is able to pick out the bags of fish that he buys. AWESOME!!
It isn't shown in the bottom pic. I took some windolev java fern and put it in front of the driftwood pile and moved some anubias to the driftwood. I think it will look great when it fills in a little bit, but right now I'm only dosing a small amount of ferts once a week until the fish are done with treatment. I'm not totally holding my breath, but I spent a good amount of time inspecting these Neons and picked each one specifically. I would be thrilled if the all made it.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Dude1 the Rainbow tank is coming together nicely. Plants are looking healthy and are really filling in nice. And nice aquascape too.

You will enjoy watching those Bows grow. I like the whole set up, you should be very pleased.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

So far no losses. That was surprising. That's not to say that I miscounted and there is a body hidden by plants or the driftwood. I am hoping that 10 will make it through the Paragaurd treatment and QT. I'm not sure what I will do if the Kamaka's come in Wednesday. The Neons will still have a week left of treatment, but the idea of introducing something to that tank is really scary.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

So I moved the remaining 11 Neons from the 11.4 to the 75 today. They all looked really good. The moss has gone nuts in there... between the stainless steel sheet and the driftwood I easily have enough for a movable "breeding mop" for the 75. Hopefully I can make it to the LFS tomorrow. Either I'm going to do 30-40 Neons... if they have that many that look good, or 2-3 Rainbows. I want herbertaxelrodi or Kamaka.
I also did some rescape on the tank and made a huge mass of windolev and put a bunch of anubias along the back wall to grow in. I'll snap a pic in a minute. I'm pretty happy with how it's coming along


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)




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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I got 3 gorgeous Kamaka Rainbows. I also got 12 more Neons. They all look good, but that was the point where I didn't see anymore exceptional ones. They are in QT and will start Paragaurd tomorrow. I'd really like to get at least 25 more for this QT group.


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## lisals (Jun 21, 2017)

You're tanks are looking SO amazing!!! Glad to hear that you haven't had any recent losses too. WOOT!


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Lost 2 Neons overnight and 1 tonight. I dont get it. They were in the QT tank for a week and getting the exact same meds as this tank... Apparently I didn't spend enough time acclimating. The QT is unheated and they seem to love it. The 75 gallon is kept at 78. I put the plastic container into the 75 for about an hour and then added about 20ml of tank water twice at 30 minute intervals. The dead Neons looked good... so I think it was my fault. Of the 10-12 New ones I haven't lost any.. I hope to add at least 10 more today. I think if I could get 30 more healthy Neons in there I would be happy for a while and could focus on raising some Celebes. The dominant males have become crazy looking. Super long extensions and colors are really popping.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I trimmed and put together the rest of the moss breeding mop. It's about 7" x 5" and decently thick. I'm going to let it grow together for a week or two and then place it in the 75 gallon with the Celebes and feed them some live food. I figure I'd leave it for 2 days as they scatter eggs constantly for a period of several days. I may have to buy a heater for the little tank though to rear them. I'm pretty excited.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Bottom tank is growing in. Added some java moss and hoping for eggs
























These Kamaka's are just awesome. I'm really thinking about getting another 6 foot tank or maybe an 8 foot and starting my Rainbow / Tetra / Apisto tank early. A school of 12 of these would be insane.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

The Dude1 said:


> Lost 2 Neons overnight and 1 tonight. I dont get it. They were in the QT tank for a week and getting the exact same meds as this tank... Apparently I didn't spend enough time acclimating. The QT is unheated and they seem to love it. The 75 gallon is kept at 78. I put the plastic container into the 75 for about an hour and then added about 20ml of tank water twice at 30 minute intervals. The dead Neons looked good... so I think it was my fault. Of the 10-12 New ones I haven't lost any.. I hope to add at least 10 more today. I think if I could get 30 more healthy Neons in there I would be happy for a while and could focus on raising some Celebes. The dominant males have become crazy looking. Super long extensions and colors are really popping.


Neons prefer 72-75* from what I've heard. Idk what your other fish like, but if 75* is at the lower end of their preference, I'd lower it a bit.

Apistos are good at 75, rainbows also have a wide range. I don't know if you have any reason to keep your tank above 75*.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Dude1 good looking Bows you've got there. I like where you are going with this. 

Nice work!


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

ChrisX said:


> Neons prefer 72-75* from what I've heard. Idk what your other fish like, but if 75* is at the lower end of their preference, I'd lower it a bit.
> 
> Apistos are good at 75, rainbows also have a wide range. I don't know if you have any reason to keep your tank above 75*.


I raised it for the Cardinals. I believe I've only got 10 Cardinals left though. I meant to get another group of Neons this weekend. Just never got to it.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Greggz said:


> Dude1 good looking Bows you've got there. I like where you are going with this.
> 
> Nice work!


I've been out of frozen foods for a couple weeks now and I've noticed a huge difference in the coloration of the Bosemani and Goyder River. They are nowhere near as colorful. I need to figure out a live food solution for the Celebes and then for the eventual fry.
It's been one issue after another for the 300 gallon build. I'm just going to buy a Marineland 265 with stand and canopy and sump. It will just fit in the area that the 150 is in so I may do it in the next couple of months. In looking at videos the tank still doesn't look that big. Big enough for a group of 10 Kamaka's and then a trio of Bosemani, Goyder River, Yellow, and maybe 6 Red Laser. They have one with built in overflows. I don't know anything about sumps so it might be a good idea to start picking stuff up. The wife won't be pleased if it's a 10k build right up front. I know I want several large groups. The pairs and trios I have now always stay together. I think that I'll plan for 200 Neons. I'll keep the Rummynose as the main school in the 150 in my office.
Those Kamaka's just blow me away. Easily the most beautiful fish I have ever seen in person. They were sparring after the water change and.it was mesmerizing.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

The Dude1 said:


> I raised it for the Cardinals. I believe I've only got 10 Cardinals left though. I meant to get a other group of Neons this weekend. Just never got to it.


Perhaps you can rehome or trade the cardinals when you get more neons. I think you will have better luck overall with temp compatible fish.

I'm sure there is a store somewhere that will give you two neons for each cardinal.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Had a steady die off of the Neons in QT over the last 2 days. The tank gets weekly 20% water changes, no ferts, no C02, and theres some hornwort that just sucks the nitrate to nothing. Im also dosing 2ith Paragaurd and the bodies look perfect. There's only like 2-3 left from the group in there. I'll pick up back up after exams and ask for them to get me 50. I'm sick of this. Even if 20 die that should put me at a good number.
I want to get those Dorityi while the LFS has them so I'll probably head over there tomorrow if they're open. I just don't think it's the fault of the LFS. I've only lost Neons, Cardinals, and Rummynose from there. Nearly all of the stock in ALL of my tanks came from there and before the cardinals, Neons, and Rummys I had never lost a fish. I did lose 2 of the Celebes come to think of it. All of my losses have reputations as sensitive fish and perhaps I'm not as meticulous as others. I think it's just the price of admission to get big schools of these fish.
I did some rearranging last night so I'll get some new pics. I have only the windolev in the top tank and then packed the bottom tank with regular java fern to hopefully cover up more of the back wall. I like it. The heavily wooded area is pretty dense so I'm hoping for some fry survival.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Picked up 2 Dorityi and a 4th Kamaka. It was an exercise in self control. They had just gotten in a big group of Threadfins and they were awesome... I was thinking I could keep a group of them in with the Celebes. I eventually decided to wait as there were 6 gorgeous males, but the only female had been th2 re a while and didn't seem as vivacious as the males... and I would want at least 3 or 4 females with a group of 6 males. 
I may consider other things after my lack of success with Cardinals and Neons. We will see. The Neons had just come in and were still in the bags floating in the water. They were stressed, but they didn't look half as good as the last batch in which 8 of 11 died. Then I go back to cost. $8 for male threadfins and $6 for females... versus $1 per Neon.

Bump: Also of interest... I've gotten all of my Rainbows from the LFS and obviously cherry picked my males. Every one of my Rainbows looked markedly better than those in the LFS... except the Goyder Rivers.. the ones they had were from a group several weeks ago when I picked mine up. The ones they had were developing crazy bright red colors and a deep separation along the sides. They were so nice I would have purchased them if it wouldn't have precluded the new Rainbows. Granted there are females of several species in their big Rainbow tank... and I have no females.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

These have been in the tank for less than 2 hours.. I'm expecting big things from these guys.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Those are some nice looking Dorityi. Pretty good size and nice markings. Just remember, they grow pretty slowly, so have patience.

And I'm not surprised your Rainbows look better at home, as that is usually true vs. how they look at the LFS. Creating a good environment can add loads to their colors.

As to the Goyder Rivers, I doubt them having females in the tank has anything to do with it. I've kept both mixed sex and male only tanks, and well bred Rainbows show equally good color in either. Now you might have caught them at a time when they were sparring, or just after a water change, or who knows what. Rainbows can turn on extra color for lots of reasons, and it's a pleasure to see when they do.

And it could be that theirs are growing a bit faster, and starting to show better color. I've raised groups of 4 or 6 from the same fry, and they do grow and color up at different rates.

If yours are from the same group as theirs, I am guessing they will be equally as nice soon. 

And love where you are going with this nice mix of Bows.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

Threadfin? As in acara? A group of ten?


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

ChrisX said:


> Threadfin? As in acara? A group of ten?


Threadfin Rainbows. The way they show off and try to intimidate the other males when females are around is just so intense. If they have them Friday I'm going to buy them and ask them to get in another group next week. They aren't going too last long if someone takes a minute to watch them. You can't appreciate them from just pictures. I don't think I could mix them with my main Rainbows. I'm thinking that I could do the main 265 with my Rainbows in the top tank and do Celebes and Threadfins in the 150 that I'll probably be in my office.

Bump:


Greggz said:


> Those are some nice looking Dorityi. Pretty good size and nice markings. Just remember, they grow pretty slowly, so have patience.
> 
> And I'm not surprised your Rainbows look better at home, as that is usually true vs. how they look at the LFS. Creating a good environment can add loads to their colors.
> 
> ...


Without seeing yours I never would have known about the Kamaka's, Red Laser, or the Dorityi which are quickly becoming favorites. The owner and I were talking about Rainbows and specifically your tank and mentioned that he never would have known to look into Rainbows had I not initially asked and had he not seen the video of your tank. I thought that was pretty cool. The place was initially 80% African cichlids specifically Tanganyikans. Now they are getting in some amazing Rainbows. Gertrude, Furcata, Celebes, and Signifer in addition to the Bosemani, Turquoise, Kamaka, Dorityi, Goyder River... pretty awesome selection. I want a couple nice Herbertaxelrodi.


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Dude, tanks & fish are looking good! Quit messing with the $1 Neons. Even at $1ea, if they constantly die it’s a waste of time!! Gertrude’s or Threadfins, do it. Yeah, the cost definitely adds up but they’re awesome! OR, have you considered a different source for your Tetras?


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## Raith (Jun 27, 2014)

So pretty with all the fish!


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

johnson18 said:


> Dude, tanks & fish are looking good! Quit messing with the $1 Neons. Even at $1ea, if they constantly die it’s a waste of time!! Gertrude’s or Threadfins, do it. Yeah, the cost definitely adds up but they’re awesome! OR, have you considered a different source for your Tetras?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm getting a group of Gertrude or Threadfins Friday... I am going to research breeding them both and decide which. The Gertrude are so small... I am conceded that the Celebes and Rummynose may outcompete them for food in that tank. 
The Celebes were breeding this morning. Unfortunately they are dropping eggs into the java fern and anubias that is secured to the wood instead of the moss on the other side. I saw a couple eggs drop, but I couldn't see where they went. I removed the last 2 Neons from QT so I've got an empty tank now.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

The Dude1 said:


> I'm getting a group of Gertrude or Threadfins Friday... I am going to research breeding them both and decide which. The Gertrude are so small... I am conceded that the Celebes and Rummynose may outcompete them for food in that tank.
> The Celebes were breeding this morning. Unfortunately they are dropping eggs into the java fern and anubias that is secured to the wood instead of the moss on the other side. I saw a couple eggs drop, but I couldn't see where they went. I removed the last 2 Neons from QT so I've got an empty tank now.


Did you give up on the Neons? My $1 Neons are doing great. I don't think there is anything wrong with $1 neons; Neons probably all come from the same farms.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

ChrisX said:


> Did you give up on the Neons? My $1 Neons are doing great. I don't think there is anything wrong with $1 neons; Neons probably all come from the same farms.


I'm not giving up on them for good. Just a little break. I think I've decided on Gertrude Rainbows and trying to get a big group. I think the loss of most of the last group was due to the dosing of paragard and forgetting a water change. I'm going to hopefully get a group today and place them in the QT with a bunch of moss. Hopefully in 2 weeks they will have left some eggs and when I move them to the 75 I will have some fry to raise. I will certainly get back to the Neons at some point in the next several weeks. I really like them and as the group size increases they group up pretty nicely. Especially when the Apisto's charge at them Lol!


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

So we were able to find 4 Gertrude Rainbows among the Furcata and Signifers. A single male and 3 females. These guys are small. I added a heater and brought the tank to 77*. I floated the bag for 1 hour and then added 30ml of tank water each hour for a total of 60ml. They seem to be good. I asked them to get at least 3 more males and females and they said that they would get them in as soon as possible. I'm going to pack the right side of the aquarium with moss and keep them in here for a while. Once I add the new ones I'll leave the entire group in there for 10 days and then transfer them all to the lower 75 with the tetras and Celebes. Hopefully I will have some fry show up. I'm struggling with some new beauties that I saw today. Panda Loaches. They looked so cool and had this killer little activity going on. I haven't heard of anyone keeping them yet and at $16 a piece and requiring a group I wanted to check if they would do ok with the tetras, Celebes, and Gertrudes in the 75 gallon. 
Lastly they got in a group of Red Lasers from a local breeder that just looked CRAZY.. much brighter "red lasers" than mine and they are smaller. I bought 2. I'm thinking about getting 2 more. I'll post up some pics. They have some similarities to my Goyder Rivers, but also the Red Lasers I have yet they are smaller and easily brighter than both. Let me know what you guys think.
























New Red Laser








New Red Laser to the left of older Red Laser








Older Red Laser








2 new Red Lasers to the right of older one
















Goyder River


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Dude1 are you sure those new ones are Wapoga Red Laser? I could be wrong but the markings don't look right. 

Your original ones do look correct. In general, should be very similar in color to the Praecox with that bluish tinge......and red stripes and tail that develop as they mature. 

Again, I could be wrong, but I've never seen one that looks like that, especially the black stripes on the lower body. Reminds me more a juvenile MacCulloch's Rainbowfish?

But either way, nice looking interesting fish.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Greggz said:


> Dude1 are you sure those new ones are Wapoga Red Laser? I could be wrong but the markings don't look right.
> 
> Your original ones do look correct. In general, should be very similar in color to the Praecox with that bluish tinge......and red stripes and tail that develop as they mature.
> 
> ...


That is EXACTLY what I'm thinking Greggz... just don't look right... some Goyder River- like markings, some Red Laser lines... one of those groups is not who they are supposed to be! I do like them and they already have great color and super energy so I'm happy to have found them regardless. It will be interesting to see them grow alongside the original Red Lasers. At $5 a piece they are really nice Rainbows.

Bump: I looked up MacCulloch's and that is definitely them. You know your Rainbows for sure! I did put a pretty stout dual wave maker in there to improve flow which was mediocre at best. No one is being blown around, but the Emporers like to swim into them and then get blown halfway across the tank LOL. As long as everyone is behaving normally a little more flow isn't bad is it? Its really at the top part of the tank mostly, but it has fixed the dead spots at the substrate. I normally see that Rainbows don't like much flow. Its like a 700gph wave maker, but it blows right into the bolbitus primarily


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

The Dude1 said:


> I normally see that Rainbows don't like much flow. Its like a 700gph wave maker, but it blows right into the bolbitus primarily


Not sure where you heard that, but many Rainbows are found in rivers, so they are used to high flow.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Greggz said:


> Not sure where you heard that, but many Rainbows are found in rivers, so they are used to high flow.


Melanotaenia maccullochi (Dwarf Rainbowfish) ? Seriously Fish
I'm glad I asked. This says "water flow should be quite slow", and given what Ive seen of Rainbows they are some strong active swimmers. I'm really loving this tank. I should be able to start piecing together parts for the sump and lighting for the 265 after the New Year. I'm already into it for 6k and I haven't purchased anything but the tank and furniture. Its going to be spectacular and Ill need the time for plant mass. Are there any others that are especially striking that I should keep my eyes open for? I haven't seen any Herbertaxelrodi yet, but I think they look different enough to be a worthwhile addition. 

Now I have 
2 MacCulloch's
2 Red Laser
2 Bosemani
2 Millenium
2 Goyder River
4 Kamaka
2 Dorityi

about 20 Emperor Tetras
12 - 14 Panda Corys
5-6 Otos

Havent decided if I want to take up space with Turquoise right now given they are pretty easy to come by. I would like a few more Kamaka, MacCulloch, and Red Laser. Also at least 2 more Dorityi if I can find more nice males. If nothing else I'll get some more of those in a couple weeks. Id eventually like 10 of each of the dwarfs. Even at their smaller size I don't know if I can pack too many more into this 75 though.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Had another dead Neon yesterday. I'm starting to think that it may be an issue with the source since they've been in there with very stable parameters, water changes, etc... I've had good luck with Rummynose so maybe I'll add to them. The Celebes have been breeding, but between them, the Neons, and the Rummys I don't think a single egg makes it into the plants far enough to get anywhere. I may just buy a few more and bring the group to 15. I'm also thinking about adding some Threadfins. I'm going to give it about 30 days to see if there is any chance of the occasional fry making it. If not, I'll add maybe some panda loaches or panda garra. I want something a little different in a bottom dweller for this tank. Unfortunately both like to be in bigger groups and both are expensive. 

Top rainbow tank is doing well. I asked the LFS to get 2 or 3 male yellow rainbows as well as some Gertrude. They said they were pretty sure they could get the Yellows, but the Gertrudes are hard to come by. They said that if I was successful in breeding and raising them that they would buy every one that I would sell. Could probably work out a better deal for store credit which is my goal. I had really hoped to have some emperor tetra fry make it in the top tank, but numbers are actually decreasing a little bit. Never any bodies, but I can only count 12 now. If that tank isn't dense enough for prolific spawners like Emporer tetras to have an occasional fry then I don't think it will happen in any of my tanks. It's probably cheaper to just buy the fish I want then to invest into the requisites for successful fry rearing.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

The Dude1 said:


> Had another dead Neon yesterday. I'm starting to think that it may be an issue with the source since they've been in there with very stable parameters, water changes, etc...


After acclimation loses and a die off resulting from strong Ick meds, I've been stable at 26 neons in my 10g QT for past 3+ months. They are growing and seem happy even though it is a 10g.

Water params kH=4, GH=6, pH = 8.0, temp = 75*. You have other fish in there with them; maybe they are getting picked off? I can't relate to slow die-offs over time; my losses were all at once as a result of acclimation or aggressive meds. I would actually say that my Neons are quite hardy once acclimated and disease free.

What is/was the behavior of the Neons? Mine feed like mini piranhas, they school, they do the breeding dance.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

ChrisX said:


> After acclimation loses and a die off resulting from strong Ick meds, I've been stable at 26 neons in my 10g QT for past 3+ months. They are growing and seem happy even though it is a 10g.
> 
> Water params kH=4, GH=6, pH = 8.0, temp = 75*. You have other fish in there with them; maybe they are getting picked off? I can't relate to slow die-offs over time; my losses were all at once as a result of acclimation or aggressive meds. I would actually say that my Neons are quite hardy once acclimated and disease free.
> 
> What is/was the behavior of the Neons? Mine feed like mini piranhas, they school, they do the breeding dance.


That's what has me frustrated. Tank is super stable. They are in there with the 2 male Apisto's, but they don't pay attention to anything but each other. There's about 10 Cardinals and 10 Neons, 10 Rummynose and 9 Celebes. I haven't lost anything else after the initial catastrophe except for an occasional Neon. They all look great the night before and during the day. At some point I just find one on the substrate or the filter intakes. It's kind of like what I experienced with German Blue Rams. Everything is good and one day they are dead. It's not enough to completely put me off on building the school, but it's putting it pretty far back. Celebes and Gertrude Rainbows are known as highly sensitive and other than the one that snuck into the bag that I didn't pay attention to at the store (Celebes) I haven't lost any of them. Very few Rummynose losses too except for the initial bad batch of cardinals that killed a couple. Rummynose are sensitive too.... I just haven't had good luck with Neons or Cardinals which quite honestly I like more than anything else. I would've been super pleased with just big schools of Neons or Cardinals. The other groups were quite literally chosen because of my poor success with Cardinals and Neons. Now that I'm working on the Celebes I have no QT and there is no way I would risk adding either of those again without QT. I'm trying to put them out of my mind for now, but nothing else has the pop of Neons and Cardinals.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

Maybe temperature? They like 72-75*. Tolerate up to 78.

Hardness?

Also, I think they are too small to see many kinds of problems. That is why behavior is important. If they are attacking the food like piranhas and they are schooling, they are healthy. If they are milling around in the corners or dont care about food, they are stressed.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

ChrisX said:


> Maybe temperature? They like 72-75*. Tolerate up to 78.
> 
> Hardness?
> 
> Also, I think they are too small to see many kinds of problems. That is why behavior is important. If they are attacking the food like piranhas and they are schooling, they are healthy. If they are milling around in the corners or dont care about food, they are stressed.


Temp is 76-77* I tested hardness, but I don't recall what it was. I think this would have been easier to figure out had I done 40-50 at once instead of several smaller groups. Once they were added to the main tank it's tough to tell who was who. I also think I may have overdosed some of the ones in QT with Paragaurd due to completely forgetting a water change. 14 days of full strength Paragaurd dosing probably wasnt good for them. I was even thinking about setting up a 40 gallon tote in the garage with some bubblers as a QT for like 100. Temps right now are between 68 and maybe low 80's during the day so I doubt I would a heater. The temps in the garage are pretty stable too. Probably stays around 75 most days. I'll stick a thermometer in there today and check it every few hours and maybe once in the middle of the night. My wife doesn't go into the garage even to get the Z06 out so she would never know. Even if I lost 30, 70 healthy Neons for $100 puts me well above the curve compared to cardinals. I wanted to pick up something today. Panda Yarra group or Threadfins or something, but I need to get the Spec 3 up and cycling so Ill probably pick that up today and get it setup.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

What do you guys think about a group of 6 electric blue rams in the bottom tank? I still want to add at least 30-40 more Neons, 10-15 Rummynose, 6 Celebes... 
I think the Gertrude are going to stay in the 11.4. They are just so small... I think 15-20 could be perfectly happy in there. 

Hoping to have the yellow Rainbows Wednesday for the top tank. I'm undecided on dwarfs in here. The Rainbows and emperor tetras are ravenous eaters. I don't think dwarf cichlids would get the food they need in this tank. The Rainbows are too big and too fast in the top tank.


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## lisals (Jun 21, 2017)

OO Love the look of electric blue rams. I think if you have enough spots for them to claim a little territory, then it might work.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Consensus is that EBR's require 80+ temps. I can't do that. I don't really want Bolivian Rams. Maybe I'll just keep packing in the Neons and Rummynose. Maybe some Threadfins.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

No yellow Rainbows. Apparently they were $12 a piece and they didn't think I would pay that?? I understand though. Limited space and then the investment in the fish. I told them I would buy 3 males for whatever. 
They had some blue Emporer tetras that were AWESOME! I wanted them bad, but this was an under the radar trip. Only had $30. The blue Emporers were $5 each. A school of 20.. or more would be cool. They said they are much hardier than cardinals or Neons. I decided to pick up 5 large Amano shrimp and 10 Neons and save the cash for the Yellow Rainbows, Gertrudes, and a big group of Rummynose next week. 
I want a dwarf cichlid. I'm starting to lean toward a big group of checkerboard... or maybe I should stick with the original idea of Panduro. The only Apisto's That have made it for me are the 2 male Gold Caucatoides I bought from them.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I apologize for the quality of these pictures. Whatver the reason my pictures just suck. This was the best of maybe 40 attempts?? 








































I have 12 Neons in a 30 gallon tub with a sponge filter and some substrate as a QT. I got them a few days ago and haven't lost one... they looked good so I did not treat with Paragaurd. Coincidentally due to the amount of BBS I've got left over after feeding the Gertrude. I have not lost a single one... so I went back today planning on some Threadfins. Unfortunately they had only 1. I didn't want to add one and hope that they would get them again. They are also relatively difficult to come by. They had all 10 of the remaining Neons still looking good so I got them. I also got 2 more Celebes, 3 more Amano shrimps, and 3 Nerites. Lastly they have had these very ram-like Pelvicachromis Thomasi for a while. They catch my eye everytime I'm in there. They been there a couple months at least. It looked to be 1 male and 2 females... given the ram looks I figured it was meant to be.... then I did a search and found 1 vendor carrying them... for $32 a piece. I got them for $4 a piece. They grow to 2.6 - 3" with males topping out at 3". Apparently they breed easily and exhibit good parental care. I'm really excited about these guys. Also again everyone was loving the BBS. 
I'm not COUNTING on all the Neons making it, but they look really good and they were eating BBS within an hour of being added to the tub. 
Hopefully they get the Yellow Rainbows in on Wednesday. If everything goes well with these guys I'm thinking 10 more Neons and then maybe 15 Rummynose will pretty much get things were I want them.


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## mbkemp (Dec 15, 2016)

That is a nice little cichlid. I would love to hear more about behavior you see from them


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

mbkemp said:


> That is a nice little cichlid. I would love to hear more about behavior you see from them
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So far they are very bold coming to the front of the tank whenever I come over to look at them. No fights with anyone including the Caucatoides, but they are definately figuring out territory. I really wanted Kribensis Taeniatus but they look similar to Caucatoides in shape and I had concerns about aggression and herbivory. The "community" took precedence over specific inhabitants. I don't know if there is any chance of them rearing fry to adulthood in this tank with the Rainbows and Tetras, but it would be cool to see. So far I like them. They are supposed to get super colorful as adults.

Cleaned out the HOB's and did water changes. Plants are getting pretty dense and hopefully the nerites and Amano's will clean up the problem areas.


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## mbkemp (Dec 15, 2016)

The thomasi are supposed to be mild. They are very nice when they are fully grown. All of the West African dwarves are in my bucket list


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

mbkemp said:


> The thomasi are supposed to be mild. They are very nice when they are fully grown. All of the West African dwarves are in my bucket list
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Do you think I could add a pair of Pelvicachromis Taeniatus? I've stayed away from any bottom dwellers. While the Thomasi might (hopefully) breed, the Caucatoides wont... and from what I've read Kribensis usually only defend a 12 x 12" space... so maybe? Do it now while everyone is small and do it with a final group of Neons and Rummynose?


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## mbkemp (Dec 15, 2016)

I know a couple of people with Moliwe. They are Uber aggro with kids. They had to remove the male to save him. I want them, don’t have them yet. Based on reading they need soft water to breed 


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

mbkemp said:


> I know a couple of people with Moliwe. They are Uber aggro with kids. They had to remove the male to save him. I want them, don’t have them yet. Based on reading they need soft water to breed
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


How large was the tank? If I got them I would probably add another driftwood pile on the right side to create another territory. They come from the same area, but that doesn't mean that they are going to work well in an aquarium the size of a large puddle. There is one other top notch LFS about 30 minutes from me in Tampa and it's got a crazy cichlid selection. They had some gorgeous Rock Kribs last time, but those are definate plant eaters / destroyers. Maybe I'll see if they have them and go from there. I could move the Apisto's to the top 75. That would make the 3 thomasi and the Kribs the only cichlids in the tank. 5 in a 75 I think could more than likely work. 
The tank is C02 injected so pH is normally pretty soft. I doubt it gets up to 6.9 at the highest. 
What did your friends suggest as far as compatability?


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## mbkemp (Dec 15, 2016)

They had them in 20 longs. Neither have kept Thomasi


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

mbkemp said:


> They had them in 20 longs. Neither have kept Thomasi
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If they've got them I'm going to get some. Should I do 3 or 4 to ensure I've got a pair? Apparently the thomasi pair off so I may have an odd man out there (well female). I'll set up a territory on the other side. Worst case I can rehome the Apisto's into the top 75 (where they were originally) or the Taeniatus can go in there. Maybe I'll get 3 and all the odds can go in the top tank?? The 2 male Apisto's, unpaired Thomasi, and unpaired Taeniatus... I'm excited..


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## mbkemp (Dec 15, 2016)

Check out aquaticclarity. If anyone can get you a for sure pair it is him


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I'm pretty certain this is a pair.
















I love the red eyes


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## mbkemp (Dec 15, 2016)

Anomalochromis thomasi, distinguishing sexes is not easy. Large males may reach 8cm, females 6.5cm. The spotted pattern is less conspicuous in the male so they stay lighter. During courtship and spawning ther didplay Five more or less uninterrupted broad dark transversal bands and a dark back instead of spots on body and caudal peduncle


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## mbkemp (Dec 15, 2016)

From African Cichlids 1, Cichlids from West Africa, Horst Linke and Dr Wolfgang Staeck


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## mbkemp (Dec 15, 2016)

So, I agree mood music is in order


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Two of them look to still be deciding on a territory. It looked like they were going to choose the right side of the tank with the cichlid stone covered in moss last night... but today they appear to prefer the dense area dead center. The other one is clearly not welcome by either of them, but the plants and hardscape are pretty heavy so there really is almost no chasing. If I can get the Pelvicachromis today I will. I'd like to get them in there asap so they can sort out territories before others claim anything. I can't really do too much moving at this point unless I tear the plants off of driftwood and start all over. Some of the java fern has grown into the wood and the egg crate behind it which was a goal of mine. I think I need to figure out some kind of off white backing to blend in with the silicone remnants along the back glass. It really bothers me.


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## mbkemp (Dec 15, 2016)

Watch for one of them to be cleaning a spot with gusto. That will be the female. They appear to be biparental substrate spawners so hopefully they work together well


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Went to the other LFS today. They didn't really know too much about the Taeniatus, but said that they had some variation mixed in with regular Kribs... they looked like regular old Kribs to me, but I don't want to spend $60 on a pair of fish and Kribs apparently go well with Thomasi. Some of the Kribs in the tank looked different for sure, but no red lips which was all I was looking for. For $6 each I figured it was close enough and I'm pretty certain based on size, shape, color, and the point on the end of the dorsal fin that I got a male and female. I added another medium cichlid stone to the previously empty right side and put some driftwood around it. They went straight there, but to my surprise they were out exploring the tank together within 5 minutes. I also added 3 more Nerite snails. I'm pretty happy with the stock there with the exception of adding 10 -15 more Neons and 10-15 more Rummynose. They had some good looking Neons there, but they were 3 for $5. I'd rather wait until Wed or Thursday for my normal $1 each lot. I'm seriously bummed about the Gertrude... I just spent about $100 on that tank for the fry and the stuff for the BBS. I just haven't had good luck.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

New driftwood cave

































Pretty colorful already


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## mbkemp (Dec 15, 2016)

Kribensis are a pretty fish. I might have to get some for dwarf pike to play hide and seek with


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

mbkemp said:


> Kribensis are a pretty fish. I might have to get some for dwarf pike to play hide and seek with
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I have never even heard of dwarf pike. Those are pretty cool! 
They had a pretty huge group of kribs... some with no stripes at all... they were all pretty small though. I was under the impression that the females had the most vibrant color.. the one that looked most "male" to me that had the most elongated dorsal fins is very colorful. The other clearly has a round end to the dorsal fin, but no where near as colorful. They seem to be getting along like a pair now... but they were just added and in a new environment.


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## mbkemp (Dec 15, 2016)

The dwarf pike is a cool looking fish. If it fits in its mouth it is food. Have to be careful there


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I'm not sure what happened, but the male krib died overnight. He kept laying on the substrate and eventually laying on his side and then upside down. That LFS is normally pretty good, but he was obviously not healthy. Im going to move the Caucatoides to the top 75 along with the single female Krib. Hopefully I can get a small group of the other color morph I want for this tank. Order arrives today at my preferred LFS so I'll see what they've got. I need a couple male a female Gertrudes and I asked for them to order some yellow rainbows.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

The Dude1 said:


> I'm not sure what happened, but the male krib died overnight. He kept laying on the substrate and eventually laying on his side and then upside down. That LFS is normally pretty good, but he was obviously not healthy. Im going to move the Caucatoides to the top 75 along with the single female Krib. Hopefully I can get a small group of the other color morph I want for this tank. Order arrives today at my preferred LFS so I'll see what they've got. I need a couple male a female Gertrudes and I asked for them to order some yellow rainbows.


Are these wild caught? That could explain the problem.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

ChrisX said:


> Are these wild caught? That could explain the problem.


I didn't think to ask. They were just the regular plain jane Kribs. They looked good in the store tank. They were pretty much indestructible the last time I had them. The big male just didn't do well. I acclimated them just like the Neons. I don't know if others don't talk about it as much as I do or if I'm really doing something wrong. I do really like the Thomasi and I wanted the other strain anyway. Maybe it was just meant to be. I think Ive lost 2 Neons out of about 20 though... so that's good. I know that I wont spend the money for the other strain unless I can get at least 4 to 6. I'm not doing the spend $75 on a pair of fish that aren't available locally and then be up a creek when one dies since they only sell them in pairs. Maybe my LFS can get the kind I want. This is Florida and ALL the fish farms are here.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

The Dude1 said:


> I didn't think to ask. They were just the regular plain jane Kribs. They looked good in the store tank. They were pretty much indestructible the last time I had them. The big male just didn't do well. I acclimated them just like the Neons. I don't know if others don't talk about it as much as I do or if I'm really doing something wrong. I do really like the Thomasi and I wanted the other strain anyway. Maybe it was just meant to be. I think Ive lost 2 Neons out of about 20 though... so that's good. I know that I wont spend the money for the other strain unless I can get at least 4 to 6. I'm not doing the spend $75 on a pair of fish that aren't available locally and then be up a creek when one dies since they only sell them in pairs. Maybe my LFS can get the kind I want. This is Florida and ALL the fish farms are here.


There has to be something going on at your house/tanks or LFS. The death rate is too high.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

ChrisX said:


> There has to be something going on at your house/tanks or LFS. The death rate is too high.


It has to be something I'm doing. I just cant figure it out. pH varies b/c of C02, but not by much since I leave it going for several hours after I switch to lower viewing lights. Tanks are stable.. water is always treated with Prime... even if I move something in the tank and get a whiff of something I will drop 10 drops of Prime in. I acclimate for 90 minutes plus adding 30ml of tank water every 30 minutes. I feed live, frozen, and high quality prepared foods... I cut way down on fert dosing. Water changes every 5-7 days... Didn't have a single issue with the Celebes, Thomasi, Amano's (well lost 1 of 5) and only 2 of about 20 Neons... but I still have occasional losses. No kids... animals cant get into the tanks... It certainly seems like I lose more than most. 

The Gertrude wasn't my fault. He jumped out... but all 4 of them were going good. I'm really thinking it is something to do with my acclimation... but then there are those that say dump them out into a net asap and drop them in. They are only in the bags for maybe an hour... how much could water deteriorate in an hour?


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Today was pretty awesome. LFS called me and said that not only did they get some nice Yellow Rainbows, but they got some Gertrudes!!! Then to make things even better the girl that works there that handles all of the ordering/stock said that she could have a nice trio of Kribensis Nigerian Reds for me next Wednesday!! I actually thought about calling last night, but I don't know if they order or pick them out or what... or maybe both. Anyway I showed her a pic and she said they was absolutely positive that's what they were and she went to see if she could get the specific variety. I asked about Mokiwe... or whatever. She mentioned they were pricey... but she also said that about the Yellows which I paid a whopping $11 each for. I'm super pumped. I will move the female Krib this week to the top Rainbow tank. She won't have a mate, but it's a nice tank and I'll put a couple more moss covered cichlid stones in there for her. What a great day.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

Try 24/7 CO2. You can adjust the CO2 much lower because it never needs to "catch up" in the morning.

My Keyholes did not like the daily pH swing, that's just not natural for any fish. Even if they "survive", what toll will that take on their long term well being?

I came to the conclusion... fish > plants. 

IMO, your tanks are more fish centric, many planted tanks just have random tetra schools and some angels. Your fish are a bit more esoteric.

OTH, if they stop dying, you won't be able to buy any more fish. 

If you were single, I'd tell you to ask the girl (at the counter) out already....


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

ChrisX said:


> Try 24/7 CO2. You can adjust the CO2 much lower because it never needs to "catch up" in the morning.
> 
> My Keyholes did not like the daily pH swing, that's just not natural for any fish. Even if they "survive", what toll will that take on their long term well being?
> 
> ...


I'm definately fish > plants. The plants are just there for the habitat and benefits. So far so good. No more lost Neons. Going to add them next week. Rainbows are good. I probably would if I wasn't very happily married. My wife doesn't leave any room for improvement. 
That girl is really cool. She has been awesome at getting me pretty much anything I want. The Caucatoides, Kamaka's, Dorityi, Red Laser, Milleniums... several others. They got 4 Yellow Rainbows. If someone hasn't purchased them by next week I'm going to get them. Pretty sure they are pairs m/f which isn't really what I want, but the females colors are pretty good. The tanks are getting pretty dense. I was hoping to see some surviving fry at this point, but maybe my stocking is too heavy? The windolev and bolbitus is crazy dense though... no way a fish is swimming through it.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)




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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Took some driftwood out of the top 75 to give the Rainbows more swimming room. Covered it in moss and added it to the lower 75 to create another large territory for some one to claim.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Hey Dude1 the Bows are looking good! I see you added some Herbert's.

All of them look to be good quality and happy. The only one I'm not sure about are the Goyder's? Should be showing more red by now, but maybe it will still develop.

And I like the whole presentation of the tank, it's really coming together nice. Did you ever think about painting the back of the tank? I think it would help bring out the colors of the Bows.

Keep the Bow pictures coming, I look forward to seeing how they mature.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Greggz said:


> Hey Dude1 the Bows are looking good! I see you added some Herbert's.
> 
> All of them look to be good quality and happy. The only one I'm not sure about are the Goyder's? Should be showing more red by now, but maybe it will still develop.
> 
> ...


Thank you. Ya I'm a little underwhelmed by them. They've started to color up some, but not like I was expecting. Either way I'll see what comes of them. I really want to paint the back of both tanks, but it would be a major job. I'd have to drain the tanks, move them off of the rack... honestly it scares me. I'm actually thinking of maybe just getting some black (or off white for the bottom tank to blend in the silicone smudges) fabric and securing it. I'd only have the HOB's. The last time I moved a tank I killed every last fish. I'm also thinking of some way to minimize the appearance of the rack. Drape some fabric over the shelf above the lower tank or something. We will see if I can work up the determination to do it. I'm not comfortable messing with stuff. 
Thanks as always Greggz


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

This is about 30 minutes after being added. Colors are still a little muted I think 
I believe it is 2 males and a single female. Couldn't get a pic of her. She is much smaller and rounder. She is very pretty, but she got off to exploring without any issue. I also learned that what I thought was a female regular Krib was also a male. He and one of the Caucatoides are in the top 75. I'm going to give the other Caucatoides until the end of the day before he may have to go up there too. They aren't bullying them, but they are stressing them out
some. I moved some hardscape around. Unfortunately the Kribs haven't even looked at the right side of the tank with 2 caves and driftwood structures... I really like these guys.
I didn't want to get anymore Rummynose or Neons since I'll be leaving Friday morning for about a week. I've got a buddy coming over to feed, but only once a day. I think 15 Rummynose and 15 Neons and I'm done. I'm really enjoying this tank. I have been hoping for fry, but I'll put some effort into it once I get the Gertrude fry raised and get my group up t0 20 or so.


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## mbkemp (Dec 15, 2016)

Those moliwe? Nice!


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

mbkemp said:


> Those moliwe? Nice!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The names are all over the place. I THINK they are a different collection point, but honestly I don't know. I love the look. They are exactly what I wanted. I was a little nervous about them adjusting, but they are all out hanging around eating BBS. I've noticed BBS makes everyone happy. Since I'm hoping for the Thomasi to pair up as well as these guys I really went overboard making the territories as distinct and secluded as possible.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I think this is the top dog








Single female








They are still both chasing her

































This is my lone "regular" Krib. I think now that it's just not a very colorful male. The difference in appearance is pretty dramatic. These guys are as beautiful as I had hope for sure


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Small sampling of some of the driftwood we collected. I also got some incredible stump / root pieces. Those are in the truck though...


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

It's hard to see the plants through all those fish. Please rectify immediately.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I left Friday morning and my 20lb tank read about 900 psi... got home 5 days later and it's basically empty?! No fish deaths... C02 still shut off at 5pm... there is some considerable brown algae on some plants... what's up?? I just refilled this 20lb tank like 5 or 6 weeks ago and the pressure didn't move in that time (As I expected)? I only do about 2bps on both tanks... this tank should have lasted for at least 6 - 8 months


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## Doc7 (Apr 7, 2011)

The Dude1 said:


> I left Friday morning and my 20lb tank read about 900 psi... got home 5 days later and it's basically empty?! No fish deaths... C02 still shut off at 5pm... there is some considerable brown algae on some plants... what's up?? I just refilled this 20lb tank like 5 or 6 weeks ago and the pressure didn't move in that time (As I expected)? I only do about 2bps on both tanks... this tank should have lasted for at least 6 - 8 months




CO2 tank pressure stays the same until you run out of liquid CO2 and then it decreases. It only moves slightly up and down with ambient temperature in the mean time. 

Just like water at its boiling point. That’s why CO2 is sold by weight, not pressure.

On my 40 breeder tank with Rex reactor a lime green drop checker with 5 lb CO2 tank would last around 2 months. You likely have leaks in your system.

Check all fittings, especially the tank outlet threaded connection (this was my most common problem by far) with soapy water. Make sure not to get the water on the electrical portion (the solenoid) of your shutoff valve as I melted a Burkert that way.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Doc7 said:


> CO2 tank pressure stays the same until you run out of liquid CO2 and then it decreases. It only moves slightly up and down with ambient temperature in the mean time.
> 
> Just like water at its boiling point. That’s why CO2 is sold by weight, not pressure.
> 
> ...


I should know that stuff. I do need to do the soapy water check, but I've been putting it off. 
Figured out what was wrong. Selonoid connection was bad


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Ok... got the solenoid fixed and found the loose connection. Unfortunately the way the outputs are constructed I don't know how I can tighten it... it's pretty obvious it is very loose... it rotates with the slightest finger pressure... 

I removed the bucephelandra as they are steadily declining. Maybe they don't have enough circulation, light, maybe fish are munching them... I don't know...
I broke apart some of the crypt Parva and spread it throughout the area that was occupied by the bucephelandra so it looks pretty decent. So I set up a little clear tupperware for some left overs. I'd like to do a little emersed enclosed terrarium. I also added some terrestrial moss that I collected in North Carolina growing along the river banks. Looks like emersed java moss. I also put in some shredded anubias that my Africans decimated.. I'd like to get some windolev in there too. 

I really wanted to finish up the stocking with the Rummynose and Neons, but I'm now gun shy due to the Nigerian Reds. I REALLY like them and I just don't want to risk it until they have a few weeks to settle in.


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

Can you re-seal the connections with teflon tape?


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Do you see the area above the 90* bend leading to the needle valves? You can see all the exposed Teflon tape. Its the fitting that plugs into the block that houses the solenoid. I can't turn it because the needle valves hit the working pressure knob and below it the blow off valve. I'm not strong enough to move the 90* fitting allowing me to just turn that one fitting in to tighten it. Well... that's not entirely true... I'm strong.. and that's part of the problem I'm afraid of snapping something. It just needs a few good turns.. but I risk making the regulator unusable..


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## Doc7 (Apr 7, 2011)

This stuff needs to be hand tight plus more with a wrench. This is way too loose and not assembled yet. You need to tear down and assemble it in a way everything is tight.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Doc7 said:


> This stuff needs to be hand tight plus more with a wrench. This is way too loose and not assembled yet. You need to tear down and assemble it in a way everything is tight.


That's what I was thinking. I didn't assemble this. The guy I got it from is well respected and was awesome to deal with. I'm sure I could send it to him and he would fix it... but I don't want to be without C02 and have to change everything. I'm going to see if he thinks it's something I could do or if I might damage it. When I thought it was the solenoid he offered to send me a new one free of charge sight unseen. Stand up dude. Everyone misses something once in a while. I'm going to see what he suggests. 

As to tanks... I haven't decided if I'm going to try to set up a Tupperware or tank as a QT... or maybe I'll add smaller numbers and QT them in the little spec 3. I know it's small, but it's cycled and has some good plant mass and cover. It would only be 2 weeks I think. There is no way I'm risking introducing something to my Nigerian Reds. 
You guys think 10 Neons would be ok in a 2.6 gallon for 2 weeks??


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## Doc7 (Apr 7, 2011)

The Dude1 said:


> That's what I was thinking. I didn't assemble this. The guy I got it from is well respected and was awesome to deal with. I'm sure I could send it to him and he would fix it... but I don't want to be without C02 and have to change everything. I'm going to see if he thinks it's something I could do or if I might damage it. When I thought it was the solenoid he offered to send me a new one free of charge sight unseen. Stand up dude. Everyone misses something once in a while. I'm going to see what he suggests.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yes on neons if you have a cycled filter and keep up on WCs and go light on food when they are in that tank. (Small feeding every other day or so)


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Tanks are filling in nicely. Still a long way to go, but they are slowly getting there. I'm a little frustrated about my lack of success with the buces... I'm going to pick up some pilo moss I think and see how that looks and grows. 
If I get around to it I'll pick up some Neons tomorrow if they have some decent looking ones.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Hey Dude1, the Rainbow tank is looking great.

Need some close up pics of the Bows sometime.......like to see how they are growing up.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I'll get some pics up for sure. Everyone is doing very well. It's tough to keep the little stocking room for the last couple species of Rainbows. I really enjoy the activity. 
I went to pick up some Neons today and ended up talking to the cute girl that works there for a very long time... in that time someone came in and bought the entire lot of 50.... I saw that the Cardinals looked good so I got the 6 they had remaining and some Nerites. 
Seems like the male Nigerian Reds have taken up opposite sides of the tank and claimed caves. The female is still considering her options as she goes from one side to the next poking around for food. No aggression from the Thomasi or the single Caucatoides.


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Dude the Kribs are freaking gorgeous! All that color on such a little fish! They were some of my first cichlids as a kid. My dad always had a thing for the African dwarf cichlids The plants in that tank are looking amazing. All those Crypts are huge and awesome. How did the C. parva handle the splitting? Ive been working to slowly shift my 20 long over to mostly Crypts and a few Swords, with C. parva being a huge chunk of the tank. I’ve already planted several pots of parva into there. I’m thinking that one of the 20H tanks may end up as a tank full of crypts.

Your rainbows are looking good. I’m always amazed, as it seems you might be by the sheer number of rainbow varieties out there. I can only imagine the struggle to only buy certain species for your tanks, since I deal with the same things with all of the different Apistos! 


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

johnson18 said:


> Dude the Kribs are freaking gorgeous! All that color on such a little fish! They were some of my first cichlids as a kid. My dad always had a thing for the African dwarf cichlids The plants in that tank are looking amazing. All those Crypts are huge and awesome. How did the C. parva handle the splitting? Ive been working to slowly shift my 20 long over to mostly Crypts and a few Swords, with C. parva being a huge chunk of the tank. I’ve already planted several pots of parva into there. I’m thinking that one of the 20H tanks may end up as a tank full of crypts.
> 
> Your rainbows are looking good. I’m always amazed, as it seems you might be by the sheer number of rainbow varieties out there. I can only imagine the struggle to only buy certain species for your tanks, since I deal with the same things with all of the different Apistos!
> 
> ...


They are so much nicer in person. The colors are incredible. The tanks are filling it to the point that I am taking stuff out and I don't have a place for it... removed a huge anubias yesterday. So far it appears the Parva handled the split perfectly. I used a sharp knife and even after splitting both plants are pretty big. There are some spots where the Parva is popping up out of the substrate, but for the most part the plants are simply getting much larger horizontally. 

I love the Rainbows. Endless action... I'm on the hunt for wilamensis and Bleheri now. My LFS said they would find them for me. I'm pretty excited. I am going to need to move them into something bigger in 6 months though... either get the 265 going or do the 150. Either way the Africans are going to have to go. I should do pretty well on the synodontis in there though... at their current size they sell for about $40 - $50 a piece. I've got 10 lucipinnis and 7 multifasciatus . I am hoping to do a trade with my LFS for some credit, but at least I know they will be at a good store that caters to more intelligent fish keepers so they will go to good homes. I've got a 40 gallon Tupperware literally packed with driftwood. They just don't do it for me anymore and They have the prime location in the house.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Before








After








Broke up the masses of java fern and anubias. There was alot more there than I thought. Put some into the top tank and some more into the emersed container. 
I think I want to remove the bright green Amazon sword in the middle and make that a foreground type area. I've got the flame sword behind it which really makes the regular sword look like a weed. I would also like to cover the remaining exposed wood branches with moss. Something compact and tight that won't get stringy or inundated with hair algae. I was considering Cameroon, Buce, pilo, or something like that?? Any experiences with those?


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Couldn't wait. Removed the Amazon sword. Moved the lobelia around a little. I'm going to have it curve toward the large driftwood mass on the left when I hav3 more trimmings. May put some Hygro corymbosa compacta behind it... or leave some space.
I'm going to cover the last driftwood branch on the right with the same moss mess that is on the other 2 which has grown crazy fast. 
The exposed wood on the left side will have a lower growing more compact moss. Maybe mini christmas moss. 
Can't decide if I want to take a little moss out of the Gertrude tank to cover that last bit of wood and take the chance of taking some eggs... but once I have the red root floaters and the wood and subwassertang for the 11.4 I'm not going to be able to keep all of that moss in there...

Or what do you guys think about a Hydrocotyle Japan carpet? It could grow up some of the driftwood ends.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

The Dude1 said:


> Or what do you guys think about a Hydrocotyle Japan carpet? It could grow up some of the driftwood ends.


Or Hydrocotyle Sibthorpioides is the other dwarf pennywort option.
I just got a mat of this today @ LFS. Doesn't have the separation on leaves, more rounded.
Not sure of PAR required to do this.
I have carpeted the japan before @ 60 PAR minimal ferts and CO2.
The enemy is shading the substrate.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Or Hydrocotyle Sibthorpioides is the other dwarf pennywort option.
> I just got a mat of this today @ LFS. Doesn't have the separation on leaves, more rounded.
> Not sure of PAR required to do this.
> I have carpeted the japan before @ 60 PAR minimal ferts and CO2.
> The enemy is shading the substrate.


I thinned out the crypts and evened some stuff out.... and found a couple nodes of Marsilea Hirsuta growing among them!! Super cool!! I'll snap a pic tomorrow. It's very little but it's really cool stuff!! 
I'm going to see what kind of moss like things are for sale in the SNS. The tanks are finally filling in so that I can develop a look. I don't have the foresight so many have on here. 

Probably won't go with Riccia or anything that requires alot of maintenance. I'm really leaning towards mini christmas moss. It's small and delicate looking like I want, but should grow and spread nicely.

Bump:








I don't have any idea how or when it got in here. I don't have it in any other tanks and never have. It has to have been in here for a while. It was completely hidden under a large mass of crypts.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

So I added 5 Cardinals and the single Neon to the lower 75 gallon. Did a 70% water change on the Spec 3 and added 5 Rummynose that I picked up today. For the second time my plan was 15 Neons... but they were sold out of them... ugh... I wanted to add Cardinals and Rummynose anyway so it's not too awful. 
I will be there Wed of next week and pick up some. Haven't decoded how I'm going to do it. Could take the sponge filter out of the 11.4 Gertrude tank as it has the 2213... and add that to the new 20 long and put them in there... but I don't know where I would set up the tank... otherwise the Spec is the only option and 10 Neons in 2.5 gallons is pretty crappy even if it is only for a week or two.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Tanks are chugging along. I was able to steal about 2 softballs worth of windolev from the top tank for my 150. I love that stuff and it grows like gangbusters. 
I had to take the pics from a heavy angle to avoid the glare. I'll get some FTS shortly. Also removed all the anubias azfelli from the bottom tank.. it was just in there as a temporary holding place. The buces I removed didn't do well in the emersed setup. Dropped them in the 150 as a last hope. Id really like a little Buce garden in one of the tanks... or maybe along one of the branches? That would be a pain to take it out and tie them up.
I'll get some better pics of the Rainbows shortly. They are growing in beauty daily and their hardyness means that there isn't really much fiddling in that tank any longer. I moved the remainder of the crypt Parva to the center so it is a nice group now and not blocked by the lucens and lutea.
I also trimmed the bolbitus of all the leaves covered in BBA. Hopefully I won't have any new formation. 
I'm going to start dosing a little heavier on the ferts. I've noticed that the anubias in the bottom tank is yellowing some.. it makes sense as there are more crypts and a large sword in there.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Dude1 those tanks are really getting somewhere now. 

Aquascaping looks great and getting even better all them time.

Looking forward to seeing an FTS of the Rainbow tank.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Growth has slowed considerably. That's a problem as right now I'm stealing windolev from this tank to plant in my 150. Ive increased fert dosing by about 30% and I've increased C02. It was pretty low after the solenoid issues and realizing my regulator was leaking. I'm already halfway through this 20lb tank... I'm hoping the gas place can fix it for me. It just needs to be tightened, but it will have to be disassembled to do so. I should probably mix up some 4kdh and put the drop checker back in. 
I got 15 more neons. They've been looking good for the last several days.

Bump:


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Things are moving along well. No new stock additions.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi TheDude1,

That is a nice looking tank!

Are the Anubias showing signs of deficiency; older leaves 'cupping' leaf tips 'hooking' downward? It's hard to tell from the picture.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Hi TheDude1,
> 
> That is a nice looking tank!
> 
> Are the Anubias showing signs of deficiency; older leaves 'cupping' leaf tips 'hooking' downward? It's hard to tell from the picture.


Yes they are... and some are very light green or even yellowish... any idea what the cause may be?


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

The Dude1 said:


>


Getting better all the time. The Bows are looking great!


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

The Dude1 said:


> Yes they are... and some are very light green or even yellowish... any idea what the cause may be?


Hi TheDude1,

It isn't that noticeable in the picture in the thread but I thought I saw something so I downloaded it, blew it up, and the symptoms became more visible. The "hooking" leaf tips are a symptom of a calcium (Ca) deficiency, the 'cupping' leaves a magnesium (Mg) deficiency, if the veins of the new Anubias leaves are green, but the interveinal area show chlorosis (yellowing) you many need more iron (Fe) or if you PH is above 7.0 a different source of iron.

I would add sufficient Seachem Equilibrium to increase the hardness by 2.0 dGH; about 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons. When you do water changes add 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons of new water added to replace what was removed with the old water. Then watch your growth for the next two weeks. *The existing leaves will not change.* However the new leaves should emerge straighter, not develop the 'hooked' leaf tip, and as the new leaves mature the leaves should not 'cup' as the mature leaves are currently doing. As for the possible iron (Fe) deficiency if the new leave have green veins then, what is your PH; what are you dosing for iron; how much and how often?

-Roy


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Hi TheDude1,
> 
> It isn't that noticeable in the picture in the thread but I thought I saw something so I downloaded it, blew it up, and the symptoms became more visible. The "hooking" leaf tips are a symptom of a calcium (Ca) deficiency, the 'cupping' leaves a magnesium (Mg) deficiency, if the veins of the new Anubias leaves are green, but the interveinal area show chlorosis (yellowing) you many need more iron (Fe) or if you PH is above 7.0 a different source of iron.
> 
> ...


I greatly appreciate it! I don't dose Ca, Fe, or Mg. I just ordered more ferts yesterday and I should have gotten some. I don't know what my hardness is at. I should get a test kit. The initial battles were just with algae and getting the plants established. What would be a good starting dose of each to get me in the neighborhood to make adjustments?
I will also get some equilibrium.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi @The Dude1,

A PH test kit and a KH/GH test kit are worthwhile investments both for the health of my fish and my plants, I strongly suggest picking up one of each. If we know the PH then we know what iron supplement would work best, otherwise Seachem Flourish Iron would be my choice. I provided the starting dose information for Equilibrium in the previous post; as for the Seachem Flourish Iron I would start with 1/8 teaspoon per 10 gallons twice a week; don't forget to do your weekly water changes. If the chlorosis (yellowing) of new leave is an iron issue the new leaves as they emerge should look much greener. If there is improvement but still some yellow on the new leaves then consider increasing the dose.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

The red flame sword in enormous. It has to go. It's really too bad. Its beautiful


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## griffin_pak (Jul 21, 2008)

That rainbow tank is perfection!


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

These aren't the best pictures, but the sum gives you an idea of the gorgeous inhabitant in this tank. I am absolutely enamored by these Nigerian Reds. I have yet to see fry. I want to move them to my 150, but I am horrified that something will go wrong and I will lose them so here they stay. I will move a group of fry into the 150 once they are large enough to esca0e predation by the synodontis. The Thomasi are also becoming more beautiful... I'd like a pair of them in there too! In all honesty i would like this exact same setup in my 150. Then I could use the 75 as my tetra tank. Maybe I'll get there one day. The tank is in such good harmony (with the exception of the deficiencies in the plants that will be rectified shortly). So I am afraid of disturbing it. I've also accepted that I love Neons / Cardinals and I'll put them in any tank that I want to really look impressive. Ive got maybe 75 in this tank and 50-60 in the 150. I plan to add another 25 into this tank and maybe 50 to 75 more in the 150. Check out the pics.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

More ferts arrived today. It is clear I have some deficiencies. 
Right now I'm doing 
1/2 tsp KNO3 3 times a week (was doing twice)
1/4 tsp KH2P04
1/8 tsp K2S04

1/3 tsp CSM+B 

I've added 
3 tsp of Ca
1 tsp Mg

And 1/8 tsp Fe with CSM+B

I don't have test kits yet so I'm starting out at lower doses and I will evaluate after 2 weeks. This is a good bit lower on Ca and Mg than suggested by EI


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## mbkemp (Dec 15, 2016)

Try to keep track with a log what and when. If you notice an issue and make a change then put that in your log. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I was starting to get discouraged with the lack of breeding in what seemed to be a solid pair of Nigerian Reds in the bottom 75. Last night after feeding the newly hatched BBS I noticed some movement around Mom... FRY!! It was diffilcult to count them as they stayed very close to the substrate and Only moved in little spurts, but it looked to be maybe 8-10? The male was inches away chasing off the Neons and Cardinals. I try to get a pic when I feed this am.
Is there anything special I should be doing to make sure they are getting food?? Between the Neons, Cardinals, Rainbows, and Rummynose the BBS goes very quickly. Ive got fry powder and Hikari first bites, but should I try to get it down to them and risk stressing them out?
Last I believe the LFS mistakenly got in some Parkinsoni Rainbows. They have the orange on the fins and along the back half of the body, but they are expectedly washed out. They don't even have them identified as such. Is it possible that they are hybrids? Poor farm raised specimens that will always be washed out?? They are probably the nicest looking ones in there at the moment and I'm very tempted to grab a couple. Greggz??


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

BBS is too small to feed larger fish. They like them, but you have to breed to much. Try growing it out to a larger size.

Use an injection syringe to feed the fry directly. Get a 1ml syringe, attach air line tubing (taped to stick), then suck up their food and inject it right to them.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

They are dead center... sorry.. I couldn't make them more visible.
The BBS is mostly for my tetras.. but it makes ALOT. The Rainbows get Omega flake and NLS grow pellets. They also get frozen brine shrimp. I'm super nervous about scaring the mother or father (seems like they take turns leading the fry around) off and then the tetras swarm and attack. They are feeding machines... insatiable. I will try that tonight when the new batch hatches. Morning feeding are frozen BBS.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

The Dude1 said:


> Last I believe the LFS mistakenly got in some Parkinsoni Rainbows. They have the orange on the fins and along the back half of the body, but they are expectedly washed out. They don't even have them identified as such. Is it possible that they are hybrids? Poor farm raised specimens that will always be washed out?? They are probably the nicest looking ones in there at the moment and I'm very tempted to grab a couple. Greggz??


You know in all my years I have never kept Parkinsoni's. Never fit into the color palette I was trying to create.

I would try to get more information from the LFS. They should know where they came from, which should help. Even with my very good LFS, I still inquire about any Rainbow they have. If they come from a breeder and good stock, they should be eager to share that with you. Once in awhile I'll ask, and they tell me they couldn't get the ones from the breeder, so they just bought some from a random wholesaler. I pass on those.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Well... the LFS has no idea what they are. They brought them to my attention and asked me to identify them. They ordered yellow rainbows and were sent these instead. They are clearly not yellow Rainbows by any stretch. I will likely pass on them. I don't want a repeat of the Goyder Rivers which still aren't all that colorful.
Secondly I have 12-15 Panda Corys in the top 75 with the Rainbows. I have no bottom dwellers in the lower 75 with the Nigerian Reds (which are finally breeding) and cardinals, Rummynose, neons, and Celebes Rainbows. I'd like to add a group of loaches. I really like the Botia loaches and the Angelicus.. but I worry they may hunt down the Nigerian Red fry... can't have that... I don't want Corys I don't think... those horseface loaches are cool.
Any suggestions? Will loaches wipe out my chances for breeding success? I want 3 more pairs for the 150 and the LFS said they'll buy as many as I can supply.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Kribs are exceptional parents and are known to kill other fish when they have fry around. If anything I’d worry about the loaches being killed, not the Krib fry. If your goal is to breed then don’t add anything else. They’re obviously comfortable enough to breed and may disrupt that.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Top 75 (rainbow tank) has got some terrible BBA going on. Spot treated a large area... and used maybe 150ml of H202 without realizing. Then dosed 10ml of metricide. Didn't give it much thought as I was so irritated. 2 hours later one Emporer tetra was dead and it looks like 2 nerites are dead. Ugh... I hope it was worth it. Did a 50% water change and the remaining inhabitants look alright. The BBA has really gotten bad since I took out all that plant mass. I'm going to add 5 more nerites and 5 more Oto's. The Rainbows eat Amano shrimp and I don't want SAE's or Molly's. Still keeping an eye out for new Rainbows. Might add more Emporer tetras... or try breeding them. I also want to add a species... maybe loaches... maybe some kind of tetra or rasbora or schooling fish. 
Bottom tank... found a dead Celebes Rainbow... don't know what that was about... haven't had any losses in that tank in a very long time and it's pretty much on cruise control. I want to add another 50 Neons in there. So far I have counted 10 Kribensis fry... very cool. The parents are just awesome to watch.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Bottom tank


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Looks like most if not all of the BBA in the rainbow tank is pink. Still dosed 10ml of metricide in case. I'll probably keep it up until my plant mass recovers a bit. Also the lobelia cardinalis is not doing what I want in this tank. It is on the right side. That side has a glass top whereas the other side does not. This side also has the most light as the Ray 2 is only 36" long. So the bolbitus must be getting too much light and the lobelia isn't getting enough. Not enough penetration perhaps. 
This is the lobelia in this tank versus the lobelia in the lower tank 
















I think I'm going to rip it out and put the windolev here.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

Still looks good, could be a lot worse.

Did you decide not to grow the moss wall on the back?


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

ChrisX said:


> Still looks good, could be a lot worse.
> 
> Did you decide not to grow the moss wall on the back?


It was just too hard. The top area became inundated with hair algae. Tried to spot treat with H2O2 and it killed the moss. I'll probably just tackle getting a black background on the Rainbow tank and an off white something for the other tank to hopefully blend in with the silicone. The plants block 98% of it, but I still see it. I've had tremendous success growing java ferns on the black egg crate covering the silicone smears though. It just takes alot of time separating new plantlets and securing them.

I decided on another addition to the Rainbow tank. Flameback bleeding heart tetras... these things are AWESOME! I wanted badly to add them to the 150, but it would be too much of a mish mash of species even for my tastes. I don't want any new tetra species in the lower 75 especially as the Nigerian Red fry grow. I've been wanting to add to the Rainbow tank for a while. I will say that stocking wise it probably wasn't the best decision. I'm going to focus my attention on getting the 265 going so I can transfer the Rainbow tank inhabitants to the 150. I'll post a pic of them once they settle and color up.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

One thing im experimenting with is attaching plants to the back glass with suction cups. I have a few water column feeders growing on the back glass, which helps create depth in shallow tank. You might try this.

Your tanks have become quite impressive.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Some pics if the Flamebacks. Don't mind the BBA, I'm working on it


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I had hoped for better, but it appears that there are only 2 fry left. The parents trade off between guarding them, but there are roughly 70- 80 Neons and Cardinals as well as 10 Rummynose and 10 Celebes Rainbows. They picked a great spot, but someone got to a good deal of them. They have a ceramic cave so I don't think it's happening overnight.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

The Dude1 said:


> I had hoped for better, but it appears that there are only 2 fry left. The parents trade off between guarding them, but there are roughly 70- 80 Neons and Cardinals as well as 10 Rummynose and 10 Celebes Rainbows. They picked a great spot, but someone got to a good deal of them. They have a ceramic cave so I don't think it's happening overnight.


I haven't had the chance to read over your build yet, but what spawned? 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

chayos00 said:


> I haven't had the chance to read over your build yet, but what spawned?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


The Nigerian Red Kribensis. I wanted them in my main tank, but they were difficult to obtain locally and have not been available since. I don't want to move them and tear up the 75 that they're in and stress them out so I was hoping to transfer their first spawn to the 150. When I first noticed them there were 10-12 and it dwindled. There were 5-6 last night. Did a water change this morning (no where near where they stay) and was only able to find 2. I had hoped to add several at one time to avoid any territory issues arising from a group already claiming a territory. 
They are amazingly gorgeous. They are getting BBS injected with a syringe right into the area that they forage.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I had enough of the bacopa in the top tank. Tore it all out and moved a big groups of crypts back there. Becketti? Maybe?? I hope they don't melt, but I think it looks good and will look better when it fills in. 
Trimmed all the BBA infested anubias leaves. Also thinking about moving the lobelia to the far right... or taking it out completely. Id like to add several large groups of java ferns. 
Everything is chugging along nicely.

As you can see between taking out a large portion for the 150 and then killing one of the those portions, the bolbitus really needs to thicken back up. I repositioned the spraybar (which is also the C02 output) and the circulation pump to get some good flow to it. Without the bacopa blowing all over I can really hit it with all the flow that powerhead will make.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

The Dude1 said:


> I had hoped for better, but it appears that there are only 2 fry left. The parents trade off between guarding them, but there are roughly 70- 80 Neons and Cardinals as well as 10 Rummynose and 10 Celebes Rainbows. They picked a great spot, but someone got to a good deal of them. They have a ceramic cave so I don't think it's happening overnight.


Get a breeder box, suction it to the glass on inside of tank. When you find a fry, siphon it into the breeder box and feed it until its large enough to release. I think thats the best solution for someone who wants to grow out occasional, random fry.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

ChrisX said:


> Get a breeder box, suction it to the glass on inside of tank. When you find a fry, siphon it into the breeder box and feed it until its large enough to release. I think thats the best solution for someone who wants to grow out occasional, random fry.


Yeah this isn't a bad idea for random fry! 

Tank is looking good! I can't wait for my CO2 stuff to be all on hand so I can start with that fun game too!


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Had a delayed melt on the remainder of the bolbitus. Good news is only about half melted. Additionally the rhizomes from the other group which totally melted have put out some new fronds. I've got all the rhizomes (about 10) wrapped together with plant weights to try to keep them in one area and have the new fronds grow the correct way. It really looks like crap. I've got the output of the spray bar aimed right at them. 
Tore out all the lobelia cardinalis as well. Planted a few tops on the far right of the bottom tank, but I don't love them. Would be a good spot for a nice piece of wood covered in Buce though.
Also after reading NLewis post I decided it was time to clean the canisters.... it was awful. I don't know what made me think it was ok to go 4 months maybe more without cleaning them (I clean the aquaclear filters biweekly). Then I remembered why... I hate sucking on the outlet trying to get suction going again... water all over the wood floors...
Fish are doing awesome. I had hoped to pack both tanks with bolbitus, but that doesn't seem likely. I'm thinking I'm going keep an eye out for a good deal on a mass of java ferns instead. Should look pretty cool given their versatility. Bolbitus just doesn't like me apparently.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

The Dude1 said:


> Had a delayed melt on the remainder of the bolbitus. Good news is only about half melted. Additionally the rhizomes from the other group which totally melted have put out some new fronds. I've got all the rhizomes (about 10) wrapped together with plant weights to try to keep them in one area and have the new fronds grow the correct way. It really looks like crap. I've got the output of the spray bar aimed right at them.
> Tore out all the lobelia cardinalis as well. Planted a few tops on the far right of the bottom tank, but I don't love them. Would be a good spot for a nice piece of wood covered in Buce though.
> Also after reading NLewis post I decided it was time to clean the canisters.... it was awful. I don't know what made me think it was ok to go 4 months maybe more without cleaning them (I clean the aquaclear filters biweekly). Then I remembered why... I hate sucking on the outlet trying to get suction going again... water all over the wood floors...
> Fish are doing awesome. I had hoped to pack both tanks with bolbitus, but that doesn't seem likely. I'm thinking I'm going keep an eye out for a good deal on a mass of java ferns instead. Should look pretty cool given their versatility. Bolbitus just doesn't like me apparently.


For the canister, if you have shutoff valves close those so you keep water in the tubes. Then when it's time to reconnect things I just open up the ball valve and have it pour out into a small bucket to get air out of the lines. However if you don't have those..... yeah "sucks" to be you! LOL You could also pull the hose up to head height and suck on the tubing then but have more control as it's not trying to flow downhill.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I've got some tank space opening up. In the top 75 I have a pair of herbertaxelrodi, 4 Kamaka's, and 10-12 Emporer tetras. I'd like to increase the numbers on any and all. What do you guys think about just feeding heavy on the live foods for the next couple days and dropping a spawning mop into the tank. There are always fry in here, but I'm never able to get them out and no one makes it to maturity. I'm sure moving them would be a better idea, but I don't have an empty tank large enough to house them. I'm trying to decide between trying this or dropping some super plump glowlights into the empty 11.4 and trying for fry from them.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Top 75 has had a steady albeit substantial BBA explosion. Dipped the anubias and Bolbitus into a 25% h2O2 solution. I then went in and heavily trimmed any crypt leaves with noticeable BBA on them. I also began dosing 10ml of glut daily. Before next water change I will again do the 1 2 punch treatment. Ill remove the nerites this time.
Bottom 75 plans have been put on hold. I don't know how, but one of the Celebes has developed some kind of bacterial or fungal infection on his side. Its completely colorless. Not sure how this happened as there have been no new additions in several months... at least 5 or more and I religiously perform a 40% water change at least every Friday or Saturday. Ive never missed one. I dosed the entire tank with Paraguard today. Going to do a water change tomorrow and dose again and see what things look like. The affected fish is eating and schooling properly. No issues other than appearance right now. That forces me to put on hold any moving of fish from the 150 into here to allow me to reduce species number and increase school size. I need to get those 20 gallon longs set up. Planned to do it today... just didn't do it.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

The battle with BBA has been lost. The bolbitus was in a steady state of decline and BBA had infested all of the driftwood, many if not most of the anubias leaves, and many of the crypt leaves.








Time to move forward. The bolbitus that was damaged by the straight H2O2 bath has been sprouting nice new fronds at an astounding rate in the lower 75. So I took it all out and trimmed ALL of the fronds off. None were salvageable. You can see the recovering rhizomes behind them. 









After taking stock I decided it was time to cut my losses and do what needed to be done. All of the wood was removed, scrubbed off every last BBA tuft, and then sprayed with straight H202 and allowed to dry. Every anubias leaf with any BBA was trimmed off. Every crypt leaf with BBA was trimmed off. I now have 5" long anubias nana rhizomes with 2 or 3 leaves. It had to be done.
















I have 3 fixtures on the top tank. The first is a 48" marineland reef fixture with very large LED's. Not sure on output. The second is a 35" Ray 2, The third is a 48" Beamswork... the bottom of the line cheap one that is RGB. I don't think it comes near putting out low light on its own. The 2 high power fixtures started on the right side (over the bolbitus) but there is also a glass lid on that side and not the other. I moved the Ray 2 to the other side. Now the area that the bolbitus was in and the windolev currently occupies only gets the Marineland fixture for 5 hours and then the low light fixture for another 4 hours. The left side with all of the crypts gets the Ray 2 and Marineland fixture for 5 hours and then the low light fixture for 4. I really didn't think this was too high light given how much C02 I inject and the EI dosing, but I was wrong at least once I removed all that plant mass to start the 150. Eventually I would like to put the recovered bolbitus along the right side making a thick bolbitus forest that will get substantially less light and may place a powerhead right there too. Bolbitus is just a BBA magnet in my tanks. Even some of the fronds in my 150 which face the output of the CO2 and have a small koralia 5" from it is having some stuff grown on the older fronds. Its brownish, but does not appear to be BBA. 
Once I have some success breeding the glowlights I'm going to try with the emporer tetras in the top tank. Id love to get back up to 25 in there. Occasionally a fry would pop up, but I was never able to get them out and they never made it long with all those voracious Rainbows and tetras. 
Good news is the Rainbows are doing fantastic. Even thinking about setting up a 20 long and trying with my herbertaxelrodi. I'm not sure the male is mature yet, but he is looking better and better each day. One of my favorites for sure. 
40% water changes were done on each tank.
I'm dosing 15 ml of Glut daily in the top rainbow tank and 12 ml daily in the lower tank. 
I also slightly increased the C02 rate. Fish seemed ok so I'm sticking with it. 
Last I broke up my gorgeous mass of windolev and used it as best I could to keep some plant mass around the wood. It grows quickly so I plan to cover most of that side of the tank with it and much of the wood.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Yeah BBA sucks! I've got some all over my annubis log and I'm hoping with the introduction of CO2 that it will start to go down! Plus I'll probably help take it out by injecting H2O2 directly on the plants with the plant still submerged, as for me direct spraying on it has always taken a hit on the plants. Tanks look good! Hope you can keep them that way. I would say maybe reduce how much light you are giving the plants, either cut down on the timing or shut down one of the fixtures. My BBA went way down when I decreased my PAR and light on time.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

So after my major trimming of all of the BBA infested leaves and scrubbing of all the wood I noticed the lower 75 was looking off. Checked the bubble counter... no bubbles. I don't know how long this has been going on... once again... for the 7th time... it was this Rhinox check valve... EVERY SINGLE ONE HAS FAILED in less than one year. Total garbage. Swapped it out and things are good... but had to trim a couple java fern and anubias leaves... which pisses me off given how slow they grow and how many already had to be trimmed.
I also removed the last couple pieces of mopani from the top tank and scoured them with bristle brushes and hot water... then a bath in H202. As of now there is no more than a couple leaves with very small amounts of BBA. They will be trimmed shortly. Keeping a close eye on things while plant mass recovers. Each tank is getting 12-15 ml of glut each day for now.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Picked up 20 Bloodfin tetras today. I'm going to add them to the bottom tank with the Nigerian Red Kribensis and the Rummynose tetras. Once these guys are established I may end up ordering a big group of Rummynose. Between my 2 LFS good looking fish are rare... if there are any at all. I'd like to get the Bloodfins to 35 and the Rummynose to a similar number.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

The Dude1 said:


> Picked up 20 Bloodfin tetras today. I'm going to add them to the bottom tank with the Nigerian Red Kribensis and the Rummynose tetras. Once these guys are established I may end up ordering a big group of Rummynose. Between my 2 LFS good looking fish are rare... if there are any at all. I'd like to get the Bloodfins to 35 and the Rummynose to a similar number.


Tight, top level schooler. I may get some of these.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

The Dude1 said:


> Picked up 20 Bloodfin tetras today. I'm going to add them to the bottom tank with the Nigerian Red Kribensis and the Rummynose tetras. Once these guys are established I may end up ordering a big group of Rummynose. Between my 2 LFS good looking fish are rare... if there are any at all. I'd like to get the Bloodfins to 35 and the Rummynose to a similar number.


I've got a few glass bloodfin tetra's, the ones that haven't jumped the tank yet. Make sure you have NO access for them to get out of! But I do like the fish!


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Funny, my regular blood fins stay close to the bottom, mostly hiding in the plants, come out to feed only. I have 2 adult angels, 7 juvenile bows in the tank as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

vvDO said:


> Funny, my regular blood fins stay close to the bottom, mostly hiding in the plants, come out to feed only. I have 2 adult angels, 7 juvenile bows in the tank as well.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ive noticed that with most tetras its all about group sizes. My school of only 9 or 10 Rummynose are always together and swimming in an organized cohesive group. These Bloodfins are all over the place. I know one died mysteriously, but no other bodies so I assume I still have a decent group in there. They are all over the place. They don't school at all and are only near the surface under the shade of the overgrown bacopa caroliniana. Other than that they stay about in the same area as the Rummynose and Celebes. Hoping to pick up another 25 this weekend and maybe even some Rummynose. I remember them schooling almost like a fish ball you see when dolphins force sardines into tight little balls to feed. Maybe they are super comfortable and don't feel the need to school? The largest ones are near the size of my Nigerian Reds and Thomasi which don't bother anyone. Id hoped to have a new batch of fry from the Nigerian Reds between removing the 50-70 Neons and adding to the other schools so that I might have better success getting to them and removing them to raise since the last batch was eaten in about 5 or 6 days. These Bloodfins and bigger, faster, and more bold than the Neons so I would expect the same outcome. 
I hear they are easy to breed so I am setting up a 20 long to try... completely covered of course... figure Ill give them a couple months to settle in and fatten up on some daphnia and BBS


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Rainbow tank. Added some gorgeous crypt cordata from Phil today. Beautiful pinks and purples. I think it will fill in and add some contrast to the left side of the tank. Also trimmed the last of the crypt Lutea, Lucens, and becketti leaves with any BBA on them so it's looking a little thin. Fish are doing awesome. LFS got some new Rainbows in. Gary Lange ones? Called them green or emeralds?? I'd really like to get 2 males, but they were in the owners display tank and weren't listed for sale... so I may inquire about them tomorrow. Don't have any idea how expensive they would be. Also added the syno Euruptus from the 150 into here... then 2 days later I've got a dead panda cory... I've had a group of 12 for almost a year. Never lost one... then 2 days later one is dead? I think the syno has killed / eaten it's last fish. 








Planted a few of Phil's c cordata on the right side here as well. Also planted the meeboldi in front a bit. I have some of the bolbitus rhizomes anchored to some egg crate recovering in front of it. Hoping the the fronds will grow uniformly like this. I also attached the larger more grown out rhizomes to the rock in the middle at the back. I stole a huge cluster of java ferns from here to put into the shrimp tank. 
Also last week sometime I added another 15 Bloodfins. They don't seem to be schooling at all really. Kind of weird... nothing like the Rummynose... which I can't seem to find healthy fish to add. Tanks will be on cruise control for a while. I also cut my photo period down to 8 total hours on both of these. That includes the time with viewing lights. The top tank has full light on for 5 hours. Not sure what the output is. There are 3 LED fixtures in that one. 36" Ray 2, 48" Marineland hi power LED, and a bottom of the line RGB Beamswork. Bottom tank has a 3 bulb T5HO Catalina fixture. 3 bulbs for 6 hours, one bulb for 2 more hours.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

this top rainbow tank is really giving me a hard time. Number 1... Emporer tetras eat bucephelandra, new anubias leaves, and hygro compacta. 
Since removing the stems the crypts were hit hard by BBA and are still pretty pathetic looking. I need to include some kind of stem again I think until these larger crypts start producing some shade. I may split up the large crypt groups. Looks like they're growing on top of one another. Maybe just some wisteria to keep with the fern look? Even the parva and lucens are struggling.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I don't know how this happened, but I just replaced the thermometer in this tank and it appears that the tank has been running at a toasty 83*!! How did that happen?? Adjusted the thermometer and it seems to be working. Planning on picking up inkbird controller to run these 2 tanks and another for the 150.
The rainbows are doing awesome. Trying to work out a deal on the Gary Lange ones... green emerald color?? Breathtaking. The tank on the other hand is not looking good. I realize the crypt lutea was left in the bunch from the pot. It looked great for a while, but as I took plants for other tanks and then removed the powerhead the lack of flow and BBA outbreak really took a toll. So I put the powerhead back in and split up all the lutea. I'm hoping it creates the lush crypt forest seen in the bottom tank with the crypt lucens. Im hoping flow is the big issue... the emporers eating new anubias leaves isn't helping so I plan to move all of the anubias. 








Bottom tank.... this tank just grows everything perfectly. Even the bolbitus that slowly and steadily declined in every tank is BOOMING in the tank. As such I plan to take more of the java fern from this tank to put in the other tanks and replace it with bolbitus when it gets a little bigger.
I'm also going to take the Thomasi and Moliwe from this tank and put them into the 150. I'm working up the nerve to raise the temps to 83* and try some of CoralBandit's rams. The Bloodfins, Rummynose and Celebes all like higher temps and it's already 79*


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## mbkemp (Dec 15, 2016)

If you are going to get Rams there is no better place


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Flow doesn’t matter with BBA, it will grow very well in high flow areas. What I believe is the major cause is dissolved organics. How often are you cleaning your filters?


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Nlewis said:


> Flow doesn’t matter with BBA, it will grow very well in high flow areas. What I believe is the major cause is dissolved organics. How often are you cleaning your filters?


I think you hit the nail on the head for the initial causation. While I clean the HOB probably twice a month I went several months between cleaning of the canisters. I also never vacuumed the substrate. I've since rectified those issues and I'm cleaning the canister monthly, but I think that there is a large amount of partially dissolved organics in the substrate. That couple with the poor growth of the plants due to the initial BBA outbreak has me playing catch up. Always one step behind. Removing all the leaves with any BBA took a toll on the plants to include the ones I completely removed like stems and bolbitus. I'm trying to do twice weekly gravel vacs now, but having 3 large high tech tanks and 2 low tech makes a drastic change in husbandry really taxing. Ive also been dosing gluteraldehyde daily in my high tech tanks to help me get ahead of it. I'm pretty well satisfied with all but the Rainbow tank at this point.
I'd really like to add a crinum calastratum to both the Rainbow tank and the 150... but spending is not an option for the next couple of months likely.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

I can tell you that I had it bad in the 40. It’s a biotope, so I just embraced it for awhile. One day I just decided it needed to go. I spot treated a couple of bad areas and did nothing else but clean the canister monthly. That coupled with weekly 50% water changes has the BBA slowly dwindling away.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Top tank - Rainbow tank. I added a large portion of emersed grown Hydrocotyle Japan... and I now have proof it is the Emporer tetras and THEY DO EAT PLANTS... hopefully it recovers because the windolev is getting too much light. I also shut off the Ray 2 so substantial decrease in light for the time being.








Bottom tank... finally got up the nerve to move the Moliwe and Thomasi to the 150. It was a mission to get them out. I had to remove EVERYTHING and nearly every plant was torn out in the process. While I was at it I also tore out all the MH and trimmed the emersed nodes and any nodes with BBA and replanted each node varying from 1 to 3 leaves... took about 2 hours. I also moved in the E Xingu. As you can see the bolbitus is doing awesome in the tank.
















































That other male is never far... he wants to get with the female so bad. She is very gravid... I got sick of waiting. I also placed little cichlid caves in a few spots. Hopefully I can siphon some fry out and raise them in another tank to raise them.
The Thomasi are still in there little trio. No idea on sex.

















































Figure I lost about 30 Neons, 5 Cardinals, at least 10-12 Lemon tetras... still have pretty close to 200 Neons.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

The Dude1 said:


> Figure I lost about 30 Neons, 5 Cardinals, at least 10-12 Lemon tetras... still have pretty close to 200 Neons.


I was wondering how things were going. You past the two week mark? Sucks to loose fish, especially when things aren't cheap to stock so many. 

Those emperor tetras are those Inpaichthys kerri? If so I've noticed when there is some trimming going on that I have seen them trying to nibble on some floating plants and eveny black neons. 

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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Not at the 2 week mark yet. I think 3 more days? Id have to go back and check my posts. No mine are nematobrycon palmeri. They ate the hygro kompacta forcing me to pull it out. Ate the bucephelandra and the anubias (the last of which I removed today). Im curious to see what happens with the hydro japan. That stuff grows fast when acclimated.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

As you guys know I lost 2 of my 3 Nigerian Red Kribensis transferring them to the death trap that is my 150. I moved them early for 1 reason.. Rams were the plan for this tank. I'm pretty upset by the loss. I decided to try Rams 1 more time. This time I would do everything perfect. From temps to pH to sourcing from a solid breeder. I got 6 GBR / EBR hybrids from CoralBandit. These guys are AMAZING! This is a couple hours after adding them. 
















This is today
























































I won't be adding any more fish from outside sources. I will probably set up the breeding tank for the Bloodfins in a couple weeks. I'd love to have about 75 total. For now I'm just keeping the Rams happy.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Those are some very, very nice looking Rams.

A great addition to the tank. Good luck with them. I hope they do well for you .


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

This tank was once my "junk" tank. Between the deaths in the 150 and the BBA and melting crypts in the Rainbow tank I find myself looking at this tank twice as much as the others. I find myself thinking over what it would take to sterilize the 150 and the plants so that I could do Rams, Rummynose, Bloodfins, and Beckfords... that would be a crazy exciting tank.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

These guys arrived Friday. It's now Tuesday and I have 3 pairs... two pairs are guarding eggs! I can't imagine they could protect them from the Tetras and Rainbows. Should I try to remove the eggs and drop them in my shrimp tank?

Bump:
































Some pics


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## mbkemp (Dec 15, 2016)

Cb’s fish are amazing. He pulls most of his eggs. 

I would let them try to raise them


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

mbkemp said:


> Cb’s fish are amazing. He pulls most of his eggs.
> 
> I would let them try to raise them
> 
> ...


Ya he sent me an email detailing what he does. I've got a couple of those pour specimen containers on the way. Eggs are still there this morning and I've been feeding live BBS, frozen bloodworms and brine shrimp a couple times a day to hopefully keep everyone satiated. Ill probably let these stay in, but im not going to be heartbroken if they don't hatch or are eaten. I will ABSOLUTELY remove them if they make it to wigglers. Made that mistake once. Not twice... I'm pretty freaking excited about these guys. I know it's only been a few days, but I have decided that the 265 will house a large group of these guys and Discus. These guys have majorly motivated me to get to gathering equipment to set it up. Might even get a small part time job over summer. The enthusiasm is there, but the money definately isn't. I'm thinking Rams, Discus, Rummynose, and Bloodfins would be killer.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

If I were to transfer some eggs how would I do it? Cory eggs were alot bigger and relatively firm.. both sets of eggs are on huge pieces of driftwood. At this point I'm thinking I'm going to need to wait to see if they make it to wigglers and then siphon them up with a turkey baster? Little dip and pour containers should be here tomorrow and in another couple weeks the 20 long should be cycled.


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## mbkemp (Dec 15, 2016)

His spawn on a piece of ceramic from a flower pot. He removes the ceramic until they hatch 


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

mbkemp said:


> His spawn on a piece of ceramic from a flower pot. He removes the ceramic until they hatch
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Then I'll wait and hope for wigglers this time. Maybe I'll put some small pieces of slate on tops of the driftwood in the areas that they laid eggs on this time? That way I can transfer the eggs without damaging them. Even if I have no success with either of these spawns it's still amazingly good fortune. I had hoped to have a single pair make it through long term and produce fry. Even from a solid breeder they're still German Blue Rams... not exactly the most resilient of aquarium fish. To get 3 pairs out of 6 fish. Two pairs guarding eggs less than a week after being introduced is amazing.

I'm feeding live BBS and frozen bloodworms and brine shrimp twice a day in smaller feedings. I feed the "main area" first and then squirt some into the 2 territories while the Tetras are occupied. 
Do you guys think BBS will be small enough for newly hatched fry after they consume the yolk?


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## Mike A. (Jan 6, 2018)

The Dude1 said:


> To get 3 pairs out of 6 fish. Two pairs guarding eggs less than a week after being introduced is amazing.
> 
> I'm feeding live BBS and frozen bloodworms and brine shrimp twice a day in smaller feedings. I feed the "main area" first and then squirt some into the 2 territories while the Tetras are occupied.
> Do you guys think BBS will be small enough for newly hatched fry after they consume the yolk?



And so it begins... ; ) lol Get used to it. If they're producing eggs that quickly then I'd expect that they'll be spawning a lot. If fertile, those should start to turn kind of a tannish color. If they don't eat them before, then you'll likely soon have a little cloud of fry. 

BBS will be too big for them at first. I'm not really trying to breed mine but I've had the best results getting them past the first survival milestone by just leaving them alone in an established tank at first where they have lots of micro-whatever already there and there's no stress in trying to move them. You may not be able to do that in a community tank though. Once a little bigger I start with powdered fry food or similar in solution. Then start the BBS once they're big enough to eat that. From there it gets a lot easier. The first several weeks are the most difficult and where things can go down hill fast. As above if you're set up with a place for them to do it, then moving that with the eggs on whatever is a lot easier/better than trying to move eggs or fry otherwise. First time that I tried mine went crazy when I went in with a big pipette and scattered the eggs everywhere. Disaster I thought and just wrote them off. About a week later the male appears with a bunch of fry around him! Apparently they'd gathered them up and put them down behind a rock where i couldn't see them. 

He's the expert on these so whatever he tells you is gospel. Just passing on my hack experience.


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## mbkemp (Dec 15, 2016)

If you ask him I’m sure he will share. I am positive his process is mostly in his journals. 

I know he pulls eggs and uses a paint strainer that floats. I believe he uses a small sponge in the strainer. Pretty sure he feeds bbs right off 


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

One of the groups at the eggs today. The other appears that maybe 2/3 are fertile. The rest are white. This groups eggs are way deep in the driftwood and plants. No way I'll be able to get to them. I got my fan setup for the 20 long so I'll get that set up tomorrow. I also got a couple of those little hang on boxes that CoralBandit uses. I'm going to pick up some MB in case I go the egg moving route. Really kind of wanted to try some Bloodfins, but having more in the tank before I get some GBR fry will just make it more difficult. Time for a second 20 long if this fan gets the tank cool enough LOL! I mean... I don't make the rules here... it is what it is right?! Besides it's not like the aquarium hobby has an abundance of healthy beautiful Rams. It's almost an obligation at this point LOL!


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Coralbandit has some gorgeous Rams. You are really tempting me. 
Have your losses in the 150 subsided?


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Discusluv said:


> Coralbandit has some gorgeous Rams. You are really tempting me.
> Have your losses in the 150 subsided?


No they have not. I pulled out 1 dead lemon tetra and 5 dead Neons today. Other fish continue to be unaffected. I am down to 2 Lemon tetras from my original group of 25. I'm probably well under 100 Neons from roughly 300 at the start of this. Thinking seriously about removing and euthanizing the remaining lemons and Neons. Pulling a few dead fish out every day is tedious and disheartening. Just cut my losses before it infects another species. I don't have the money for the UV and probably won't for a couple months.

I'm so grateful for the timing on getting the Rams. I'd be pretty low at this point otherwise. Apparently it really is all about the source...


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

((sigh)) I sorry.  
Did you use Paraguard?
What other medications do you have on hand?


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Discusluv said:


> ((sigh)) I sorry.
> Did you use Paraguard?
> What other medications do you have on hand?


Yep... full strength Paragaurd dosing for more than 30 days... 60ml a day. I haven't found anything else that would leave plants and inverts unaffected. I had problems with the Neons and Lemons from the start. I think they were poor quality and then something was introduced. Not virulent enough to bother any of the other fish... even small peacock Gudgeons and Sparkling gourami's. I'm just done with them. I'll be dealing with their poor immune systems as long as they are in the tank. They cost me my Nigerian Red Kribensis already. I think I stressed them out too much in tearing apart the 75 to catch them. 

I'm slammed with exams and abbreviated summer classes so I am not going to tear apart the 150 to get them out and euthanize. Just going to keep conditions good and wait for them to die off. Maybe after 2 or 3 months of no casualties I will consider doing something else. I'd love to swap the Ram tank inhabitants in here....well maybe fry... definately not my original group... until I know whatever it was is completely gone. I'd love to do Rams and Discus and Bloodfins and Rummynose. Maybe a couple months after the UV has been up and running and no deaths. The fish in the 150 that are unaffected would fit pretty comfortablyin the 75 I think. 

Well... 25 black phantoms, 25 Pristilla tetras, 25 Glowlights... 4 Peacock gudgeons, 6 sparkling gourami's, 3 Thomasi, 12 Syno lucipinnis... you guys think that would be ok? I like heavy stocking. That might be too much now that I think about it.

Got a surprise from the wife last night. No 265 in this house until her stuff gets done... New floors, new laundry room, new furniture.... so... it isn't happening in this house.

Good news is the Ram tank is at 83 - 84* and I've noticed absolutely no negative consequences with plants. Crypts, bolbitus, anubias, java fern, MH, moss... even the laegandra meeboldi is doing great. That's encouraging. I dont think the bucephelandra would have issues. So just the hygro kompacta and crinum are unknown.
Crinum has also split off a daughter plant. I don't have any idea what it is, but this plant LOVES my tank. Most of the posts I've read say that the crinum takes months to establish itself and show any signs of growth. Mine has been growing faster than any plant in the tank. 
Crinum and Rams... that's what I'm focusing on.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

The Dude1 said:


> Yep... full strength Paragaurd dosing for more than 30 days... 60ml a day. I haven't found anything else that would leave plants and inverts unaffected. I had problems with the Neons and Lemons from the start. I think they were poor quality and then something was introduced. Not virulent enough to bother any of the other fish... even small peacock Gudgeons and Sparkling gourami's. I'm just done with them. I'll be dealing with their poor immune systems as long as they are in the tank. They cost me my Nigerian Red Kribensis already. I think I stressed them out too much in tearing apart the 75 to catch them.
> 
> I'm slammed with exams and abbreviated summer classes so I am not going to tear apart the 150 to get them out and euthanize. Just going to keep conditions good and wait for them to die off. Maybe after 2 or 3 months of no casualties I will consider doing something else. I'd love to swap the Ram tank inhabitants in here....well maybe fry... definately not my original group... until I know whatever it was is completely gone. I'd love to do Rams and Discus and Bloodfins and Rummynose. Maybe a couple months after the UV has been up and running and no deaths. The fish in the 150 that are unaffected would fit pretty comfortablyin the 75 I think.
> 
> ...


Food for thought. I killed tetra's in the beginning with Paraguard, or so I'm pretty sure I did. I tried a dip and in the hour span the bottle of paraguard talks about they all died.... Maybe now that you've hit 30 days just stop dosing it and see what happens. 

Do you guys plan selling this place? Is that why the upgrades?


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

chayos00 said:


> Food for thought. I killed tetra's in the beginning with Paraguard, or so I'm pretty sure I did. I tried a dip and in the hour span the bottle of paraguard talks about they all died.... Maybe now that you've hit 30 days just stop dosing it and see what happens.
> 
> Do you guys plan selling this place? Is that why the upgrades?


I stopped a few days ago. Hopefully the other fish continue to do well and make it until I get the UV sterilizer set up.

We actually built a very large log home on our 11 acres in mountains in TN. This home was totally renovated and updated when we bought it. We just didn't pay close enough attention that the big money stuff was old. Roof, AC, water heater, fence, washer and dryer, stove, refrigerator... all of it will have to be replaced before we can sell. When we replaced the washer and dryer the new ones didn't fit where the old ones were... then a large area had to be demolished to get to the water heater and leaky pipes... The house was a bad investment as it is already the most expensive home in the neighborhood. We had planned to move to TN, but we were thrown a curve ball so we also bought this home. We will pretty much lose every penny we put into upgrading this home. We may just rent it out who knows. It WILL be a nice home once we get everything done and it's better than renting lol.
Our other home is literally our dream home. 4400 sq feet not including the full basement. All completely brand new... oh well... not every gamble pays off.

I have a separate 1200 sq ft building with AC and water that will be my fishroom / man cave. In the main house I also have a large office and there is another smaller "office" area for my wife. While this sucks, we own that home and property free and clear.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

The Dude1 said:


> I stopped a few days ago. Hopefully the other fish continue to do well and make it until I get the UV sterilizer set up.
> 
> We actually built a very large log home on our 11 acres in mountains in TN. This home was totally renovated and updated when we bought it. We just didn't pay close enough attention that the big money stuff was old. Roof, AC, water heater, fence, washer and dryer, stove, refrigerator... all of it will have to be replaced before we can sell. When we replaced the washer and dryer the new ones didn't fit where the old ones were... then a large area had to be demolished to get to the water heater and leaky pipes... The house was a bad investment as it is already the most expensive home in the neighborhood. We had planned to move to TN, but we were thrown a curve ball so we also bought this home. We will pretty much lose every penny we put into upgrading this home. We may just rent it out who knows. It WILL be a nice home once we get everything done and it's better than renting lol.
> Our other home is literally our dream home. 4400 sq feet not including the full basement. All completely brand new... oh well... not every gamble pays off.
> ...


Holy crap that's one big house including the basement! 8800sq ft assuming it matches upstairs. Unless that's a 2 story house then. Either way sounds awesome! 

Sounds like we have semi similar stories about houses. Except where you bought one that needed work, we bought in 2006 at the peak and them the market tanked. A 20k down payment and 6 years or paying for a house and even extra payments only to have to choose a buy and bail on the house for our current home. That first house we walked away with nothing, but at least with the laws of the time we were protected and did t have to pay anything for it. Just my credit took a hit, but didn't care at the time and hasn't been an issue in the past 6 years either. LOL 

I lived in TN when I was in middle school and just recall the beauty of the landscape, if it wasn't for the humidity I'd totally go back. LOL. But gotten used to the dry arse desert! Single digits for humidity at the moment. 

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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

chayos00 said:


> Holy crap that's one big house including the basement! 8800sq ft assuming it matches upstairs. Unless that's a 2 story house then. Either way sounds awesome!
> 
> Sounds like we have semi similar stories about houses. Except where you bought one that needed work, we bought in 2006 at the peak and them the market tanked. A 20k down payment and 6 years or paying for a house and even extra payments only to have to choose a buy and bail on the house for our current home. That first house we walked away with nothing, but at least with the laws of the time we were protected and did t have to pay anything for it. Just my credit took a hit, but didn't care at the time and hasn't been an issue in the past 6 years either. LOL
> 
> ...


I had some struggles about 11 years ago when my ex wife decided to leave me for a 55 year old married dude. Took everything. Went from a net worth of about 350k to nothing over night. I slept on a friend's couch for 8 months until I could afford my own apartment. Then like 6 years later had my injuries and lawsuits with the Police Dept. Nearly lost everything again! I believe the struggles provide an opportunity for some to realize that there is always a silver lining and it's very likely to land you in a much better spot than you would otherwise have accomplished. It's all a journey.
Humidity is good where we are. It's way up in the Smokies. Coming from Tampa Fl anything is better than here! I try to keep perspective. I got some really crappy stuff under my belt early. I appreciate it now.

It's all perspective. Many people will never know the security of owning a home, owning a new vehicle. I try to remember now that every day is a blessing


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

The first pair of Rams to spawn have spawned again in the exact same spot. I plan to put a couple small pieces of slate on those areas so I can remove the eggs. Problem is that I have not figured out the temps in the garage yet. It's getting to 90* some days...
I could maybe use the shrimp tank, but they dont like the higher temps. I have one of dip and pour containers, but no way to keep the water to temp.








I dont know why it looks so yellow


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Not surprisingly I'm not getting far with GBR eggs. I got some small pieces of driftwood that I can put in their favorite places so I can transfer the eggs to a dip and pour containerthatill just hang inside of the tank. Should get water at the right temp.
Also I moved the clown killifish from the 11.4 to the 2.6. I got 1 male and 2 females moved in, but not the one that's up by the powerhead I guess. I may try to get her tomorrow.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Moved the clown killifish into the 2.6 to open up the 11.4. I moved 1 male and 3 female Emporers tetras hoping for some fry. Then today one of the ballasts went out in my Catalina fixture. Time for a new fixture... 8 years is pretty good for $125. Apparently aquarium T5 fixtures have tripled in price. Probably try one of the Vivosun 4 bulb T5 fixtures so I can try some color bulbs. After having 2 high tech tanks on LED's and 1 on T5 I would really like to go T5 on ALL of them so replacing my only T5 fixture was not what I wanted to do. Can't complain though... 8 years... my 48" Finnex Fugeray died in 8 months.


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## mbkemp (Dec 15, 2016)

I’m with you. T5ho is the way to go. I’m curious to know what you decide on


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

If I go with the 4x54w T5HO what do you guys suggest for bulbs? I was thinking 2 x 6500k, 1 powerveg, and one 10k?? This tank previously had 3 6500k and although it looked yellow to my eye the growth has been fantastic with very minimal algae.
Also thinking of using the catalina (with only 2 working bulbs) and replacing one of the Beamswork fixtures... or I may buy 2 fixtures and do only the T5 on the 150. I'll move my questions for that tank to that thread.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I'd like to make a supplemental or full LED fixture with what I think many of the currently available fixtures are lacking. Namely 660 and maybe 630nm reds. 
As far a getting the bare bones am I on the right track with the following 
1. Mean Well HLG-320H-48B LED DRIVER single switching LED power supply 
2. 5 channel LDD-1000H LED driver on PCB board
3. heat sinks to mount LED's on
4. Aluma thermal adhesive 
How many LED's on each channel? 
1 color per channel?
Would I use a tc421 board for dimming??

Still can't post a thread in lighting...


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

The Dude1 said:


> I'd like to make a supplemental or full LED fixture with what I think many of the currently available fixtures are lacking. Namely 660 and maybe 630nm reds.
> As far a getting the bare bones am I on the right track with the following
> 1. Mean Well HLG-320H-48B LED DRIVER single switching LED power supply
> 2. 5 channel LDD-1000H LED driver on PCB board
> ...


Are you wanting to make a full on fixture of only LED lighting for the tank? If so check out my build thread. It's pricey, but gives LOTS of lighting if I turned it up. Honestly I think I would do only a combo of veros if I remade one. 

I keep thinking I need a few more veros on mine for the center and the end of the tank, but smaller ones than the big ones I have right now. 

Also have you tried using Taptalk? It has given me no issues so far, where my PC does. 

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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I couldn't find a beginner's guide. Amperage versus voltage versus wattage... what power supply with drivers for what LED's... I dont think I understand the basics for what is needed and I dont want to spend money on high quality parts to mess it up with a poor install. 
I'm thinking I will stay with the 4 bulb T5 retrofit for the 150. Then I'm thinking of buying 2 of the 48" Booster bars from StevesLED with 42 Luxeon LED's and a dimmer function for $350 each. 
I then have the following fixtures left over to run as a main fixture on these 2 tanks
36" Finnex Ray2
48" Beamswork FSPEC
48" Beamswork DA
48" Beamswork 0.5w RGB fixture (real low light)
48" Maineland reef fixture with built in timer and 3w LED's
48" Catalina with 2 working T5HO


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I can't decide if I want to tear this thing down and start over or wait and hope the crypts fill in soon. I'd really just love to pack it full of java fern and bolbitus... if I could figure out lighting to keep the BBA off of it. Doing a deep gravel cleaning inboth tanks now that I have a few weeks off of school.
Still need to get that syno out of there. Killed a Goyder River rainbow last week.









It's hard to see, but I placed 3 softball sized groups in different spots. Finally recovered enough to be placed somewhere. I had a batch of eggs on a small piece of driftwood a couple nights ago. I forgot to move the driftwood and they were gone the following afternoon. They were already 2 days old... I'll check daily for the next few weeks. Probably move some driftwood with java fern over to the empty area. I plan to move some bloodfins into the 11.4 once I finish my attempts at the Emporers. I really need more of them in the rainbow tank to spread the aggression


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

The Dude1 said:


> I can't decide if I want to tear this thing down and start over or wait and hope the crypts fill in soon. I'd really just love to pack it full of java fern and bolbitus... if I could figure out lighting to keep the BBA off of it. Doing a deep gravel cleaning in both tanks now that I have a few weeks off of school.
> Still need to get that syno out of there. Killed a Goyder River rainbow last week.
> 
> It's hard to see, but I placed 3 softball sized groups in different spots. Finally recovered enough to be placed somewhere. I had a batch of eggs on a small piece of driftwood a couple nights ago. I forgot to move the driftwood and they were gone the following afternoon. They were already 2 days old... I'll check daily for the next few weeks. Probably move some driftwood with java fern over to the empty area. I plan to move some bloodfins into the 11.4 once I finish my attempts at the Emporers. I really need more of them in the rainbow tank to spread the aggression


My vote is to wait for the crypts to fill in, yes it takes some time, but before you know it the tank will be full! LOL Here's to hoping you find some babies!!


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

chayos00 said:


> My vote is to wait for the crypts to fill in, yes it takes some time, but before you know it the tank will be full! LOL Here's to hoping you find some babies!!


I hope so. It was once filled in nice. I think BBA has something to so with it dying back. I broke it all up and replanted several weeks ago. I definately need to make some changes to lighting. If I can get a big batch of java fern to place behind the driftwood I think I might have a chance at fry in this tank. Another dead Cory today. I may have to euthanize the Euruptus catfish if the LFS wont take him. Maybe I'll put an ad on craigslist. In addition to all the tetras in the 150 he has now killed 3 Cory's and one Goyder River Rainbow. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few... in this case 1 catfish...


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I'm back to school on Monday and admittedly I've been focusing on long overdue house and yardwork. Tanks are chugging along with normal maintenance. Well... 2 days ago I found a male GBR dead.... the previous no one was sick, everyone was as lively as ever. Then yesterday another was hanging in the top corner gasping for air with what looked to be abrasions near his tail. So 2 out of 3 males dead. The remaining male has become very domineering. Very bold and insanely colored. His female stays very close to him and every other female is keeping out of sight. 
This big time bums me out. I've also stopped dosing metricide to see how close I am to balance... not good. Need to keep dosing I guess.
Rainbow tank is doing good. The Wanamensis is fitting in very well and the bump onhis lip is gone


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Well... another one dead today. No symptoms, no other fish affected... time to save for another UV I guess


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

The Dude1 said:


> Well... another one dead today. No symptoms, no other fish affected... time to save for another UV I guess


 Im sorry to hear this.
Do you think there is a possibility of cross-contamination from the other tank where you had so many losses?
If the deaths have stopped in the other tank since you put in the UV sterilizer and there is a chance of cross-contamination to this tank than it points pretty positively to parasites.
But, also, with UV sterilizers they do cut down on the bacterial load in the aquarium ( help control mild cases --- where internal damage has not yet set in--- of bacterial infection from columnaris and aeromonas , for example). Cutting down on the bacterial load, the UV sterilizer allows the fish's immune system to manage a mild infection as long as there are no other environmental stressors to push the fish over the edge. 

Anyways, I think that the decision to get a sterilizer on this tank as well is a good one.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

@Discusluv you are right thatanother sterilizer is the answer, but I've not had a death in the 150 for 2 months... ugh... it HAS to be something. It isn't the fish... I wonder if I got it by using something that I used with the newly acquired fish, but I've had no losses!! 
I never get ahead on stocking I swear... no swapping inhabitants now! 
At least the tanks are looking better








Ram tank (the T5HO give a very yellow look in photos)








































And the always trouble free rainbow tank with my new Wanamensis


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Hey Dude1 Rainbows and tank are looking great!

Good mix of colors there. Will only get better over time.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Greggz said:


> Hey Dude1 Rainbows and tank are looking great!
> 
> Good mix of colors there. Will only get better over time.


And they never give me problems. Always healthy, active, and entertaining. I really want a second male Wanamensis.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

The Dude1 said:


> And they never give me problems. Always healthy, active, and entertaining. I really want a second male Wanamensis.


You summed up pretty well why I keep them. I would just add colorful!

And I have a couple of Wanamensis right now that are pretty spectacular. Another Bow where breeding can make a world of difference.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Those rainbows are pretty spectacular! Just as colorful and beautiful as my discus.
This stocking issue will get settled sooner or later, you are going in the right direction.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Rams laid eggs again, but they are on a massive piece of driftwood that I can't move.... again... so I'll place another small piece of mopani in this area once these eggs are gone in the hope's that NEXT TIME they will lay them on a piece I can pull and raise. At least I still have a breeding pair.


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