# Algae won’t go away HELP!



## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

Going to need a lot more info than this...

1.) What size tank do you have?
2.) What kind of lighting do you have? Duration?
3.) What kind of substrate are you using?
4.) How are you injecting co2? Pressurized or DiY?
5.) How are you monitoring your CO2 levels? What is the ppm?
6.) What is your water change schedule?
7.) What is your KH/GH/TDS?
8.) What do you have for fish or inverts?

Lastly, pictures are worth a thousand words!


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## finnystar2992 (Dec 17, 2020)

jellopuddinpop said:


> Going to need a lot more info than this...
> 
> 1.) What size tank do you have?
> 2.) What kind of lighting do you have? Duration?
> ...



1. 10 gallon
2. Chihiros RGB+ and a 20 watt white led (8 hours a day)
3. I’m using ecocomplete 
4. Diy co2 with a very fine diffuser 
5. Well, I’m doing 2 bubbles a second. I don’t test co2 levels, Ige kept it at 2 bubbles per second for like 6 months but now I’m getting algae. It’s probably not the co2
6. I do 50% water change a week
7. I’m not sure
8. It’s extremely low stocking, only 1 betta fish.

(Also my tank is completely filled with plants. Thick carpet of pearl weed, and in the back Rotala rotundifolia, water wisteria, rotala Vietnam, and ludwiga red) 

I also dose flourish fertilizer.


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## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

finnystar2992 said:


> Well, I’m doing 2 bubbles a second. I don’t test co2 levels, Ige kept it at 2 bubbles per second for like 6 months but now I’m getting algae. It’s probably not the co2
> 
> 
> I also dose flourish fertilizer.


What makes you think your CO2 is fine if you don't check it? I would check the ph of tank water that's been in a glass overnight, and then check again right when your lights come on. You want a ph drop of 1 full point.

What kind of Flourish are you dosing? Flourish Comprehensive? Comprehensive is anything but comprehensive; it doesn't contain any macronutrients. I would look into something like Thrive or EI dosing.

Finally turn off that second light, and reduce your photo period to 6 hours. That will help while you figure out the rest of it.


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## finnystar2992 (Dec 17, 2020)

jellopuddinpop said:


> What makes you think your CO2 is fine if you don't check it? I would check the ph of tank water that's been in a glass overnight, and then check again right when your lights come on. You want a ph drop of 1 full point.
> 
> What kind of Flourish are you dosing? Flourish Comprehensive? Comprehensive is anything but comprehensive; it doesn't contain any macronutrients. I would look into something like Thrive or EI dosing.
> 
> Finally turn off that second light, and reduce your photo period to 6 hours. That will help while you figure out the rest of it.



Okay, I just ordered thrive all in one fertilizer, I will check the ph today, and I’ll reduce the light timing to 6 hours. 

But the problem is, why is there suddenly issues with algae? I’ve kept this setup for a long time but only like 2-3 weeks ago I’ve been getting a huge bloom of algae. If there’s any other specifications I can give you so you can help me figure this out, please ask me!


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

Hi finnystar2992
Jellopuddinpop asked you what kind of Flourish were you dosing because there is more than one. Light, 20W LED over 10 gallon is a lot of light. I would turn it to 50 - 60%. When you do a water change, what water do you use? What is its Ca, Mg, KH and TDS? You can get the info from the water works if you use tap water. 

Why is there suddenly issues with algae, you ask? Because the plants used up their nutrient reserves. 

You ordered Thrive fertilizer which I can’t help you with because I don’t know anything about it. We use mostly standard fertilizing minerals, like K2SO4, KNO3, KH2PO4, MgSO4 and CaSO4.


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## finnystar2992 (Dec 17, 2020)

Edward said:


> Hi finnystar2992
> Jellopuddinpop asked you what kind of Flourish were you dosing because there is more than one. Light, 20W LED over 10 gallon is a lot of light. I would turn it to 50 - 60%. When you do a water change, what water do you use? What is its Ca, Mg, KH and TDS? You can get the info from the water works if you use tap water.
> 
> Why is there suddenly issues with algae, you ask? Because the plants used up their nutrient reserves.
> ...



I was dosing the “all in one” seachem flourish. I’m pretty sure the light isn’t really the issue because I’ve had this lighting for a while, and only now I’m getting algae. When I do water changes I use my tap water and dechlorinate with prime. (Also, could it be possible that not dosing fertilizer for about 2-3 weeks be the cause of the algae?) 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

Hi
If you mean Flourish Comprehensive then there is almost nothing in it but iron Fe. It was meant to be used with Flourish Trace to have more complete trace element mix. These are micro nutrients. And because you have been adding only one micro element and no other micro and macro elements the plants used up their reserves and became weak. They couldn’t fight algae any longer.


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## finnystar2992 (Dec 17, 2020)

Okay got it, hopefully the thrive will help. Here’s a picture of my tank











Edward said:


> Hi
> If you mean Flourish Comprehensive then there is almost nothing in it but iron Fe. It was meant to be used with Flourish Trace to have more complete trace element mix. These are micro nutrients. And because you have been adding only one micro element and no other micro and macro elements the plants used up their reserves and became weak. They couldn’t fight algae any longer.



And should my plants start growing better and looking better after I make the switch to thrive ferts (which has macro and micro elements)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## vanostav61 (May 8, 2020)

That's a heavily planted tank man, you definitely need a good dosing regime. Once your plants start growing well, your issues should go away.

I always find it fascinating though, how some people get to grow lush tanks with little to no knowledge and some do their best for the plants and don't achieve success.


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## finnystar2992 (Dec 17, 2020)

vanostav61 said:


> That's a heavily planted tank man, you definitely need a good dosing regime. Once your plants start growing well, your issues should go away.
> 
> I always find it fascinating though, how some people get to grow lush tanks with little to no knowledge and some do their best for the plants and don't achieve success.



I don’t think that there’s any luck in growing beautiful and lush plants. So if an experienced hobbyist is not doing well with their tanks, most likely they’re not putting in effort. I wouldn’t say I have little knowledge, I’ve known that my plants weren’t thriving for a while, and I knew that hair algae grows with high levels of iron. I’ve took a look at the elements that are in flourish comprehensive a few times, I did only see micro elements. The reason I never made a switch to a micro and macro fertilizer (thrive ferts or Nilo cg dry ferts) was because I was sitting at low tech for a while. I progressed in knowledge with mistakes that I made throughout the journey of keeping this tank. In the beginning I made the mistake of using a cheap dim blue and white led light, and also using eco complete (which is pretty much gravel). After I saw my pearl weed growth being very low (I only had pearl weed in the tank at the time) I decided to use a 20 watt shop light instead. This was the best idea I had, after my pearl weed started growing great, I began added background plants. Eventually I wasn’t happy with my Rotala rotundifolia coloring, so I decided to make citric acid co2. And finally, I got a Chihiros rgb light (this spectrum really helped my red plants pop), and I’m using it with my shop light. I knew that a sudden inbalance would cause algae, and I knew that my fertilizer would be out competed by my lighting. 

So what I’m trying to say is that, I wasn’t just “lucky” in getting my tank to look the way it looks. 

If you want, I can show you my tank progression from June to now


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## [email protected] (Sep 15, 2020)

Look at it as an opportunity. Hair algae makes great food for a scud culture, I stopped fighting it and use it to feed my scuds.


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## finnystar2992 (Dec 17, 2020)

[email protected] said:


> Look at it as an opportunity. Hair algae makes great food for a scud culture, I stopped fighting it and use it to feed my scuds.



Yes, unfortunately I want my tank to look pretty and I do not have any scrub culture


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## allexx46 (Feb 15, 2019)

I had a similar problem and then read someplace (perhaps here) that hair algae needs phosphate and phosphate in present in fish food. In my case I have lots of fish and feed lots of food. I bought some Seachem Phosguard pads and added them to my filter. In two weeks most of the hair algae was gone. I have to put in new pads every month or it slowly comes back because of the fish food. Looking at your tank I would add ammano shrimp to the cleanup crew (only critters besides Siamese algae eaters that eat hair algae) add at least one Phosguard pad to the filter and hope for the best. My tank is 165 gal so I need two. This worked for me but your mileage will vary.


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## rzn7z7 (Aug 17, 2013)

finnystar2992 said:


> 5. Well, I’m doing 2 bubbles a second. I don’t test co2 levels, Ige kept it at 2 bubbles per second for like 6 months but now I’m getting algae. It’s probably not the co2
> /QUOTE]
> 
> 
> ...


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

No phosphorus P no plants.

Both, plants and algae need phosphorus. If it is removed, algae may slow down but plants will die. Dying plants start leaking nutrients which algae will use to grow. 

When phosphorus is available, algae may start growing and plants will grow healthy. Healthy plants will resist algae and release chemical warfare allelochemicals that will kill algae around them. 

Judging the situation without a PO4 test kit is impossible. The actual water column concentration is needed in order to determine if the problem is too little or too much of PO4. Both is bad. If PO4 is on the lower side of the test kit scale then it needs to be added. If it is on the higher side of the scale then more plants or less fish is needed, or existing plants are not having enough other essential nutrients.


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## cl3537 (Jan 28, 2019)

Pros use Seachem Excel to prevent Algae especially hair algae.
You probably have too much light or other imbalances but instead of chasing fertilizer params, use a comprehensive like Thrive (its fine).
Keep up with substrate cleaning, maintenance, water changes and with Excel you should be rid of your algae in no time.
Lookup @Deanna algae bomb with Excel.


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## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

cl3537 said:


> Pros use Seachem Excel to prevent Algae especially hair algae.
> You probably have too much light or other imbalances but instead of chasing fertilizer params, use a comprehensive like Thrive (its fine).
> Keep up with substrate cleaning, maintenance, water changes and with Excel you should be rid of your algae in no time.
> Lookup @Deanna algae bomb with Excel.


I agree with almost everything said here, except that the pros use Excel to control their algae. While many people do dose liquid carbon, I would say their clean tanks come from intensive maintenance, and proper balance of light, ferts, and CO2. Liquid carbon may have a place, but I think most serious planted tank enthusiasts use it as one tool in a very large toolbox.

I only mention this because it's not a miracle cure. You need the other components that you mentioned, and if those are done properly, then excel isn't even needed at all.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

You're getting a lot of good advice above, and a few dubious ones too.

As mentioned above, I would first concentrate on CO2. Getting it right is well worth your time. Saying 2 bps has no meaning. Bubbles are not uniform in size.

Learn how to get a good accurate pH reading of a degassed sample of tank water. Then focus on pH drop from that level. You want at least a 1.00 drop, and something closer to 1.2 to 1.4 is even better. Getting CO2 right can fix a lot of problems. You can bang your against the wall changing dosing levels, but getting CO2 dialed will improve things much quicker.

And as others have mentioned, be sure to be dosing both macros and micros. Like @Edward said, starving plants are an easy target for algae.

Do NOT get a Phosphate remover. There isn't a planted tank in the world that needs a Phosphate remover. Plants love it and need it to survive. Hair algae is more likely from too few Phosphates, not too many.

Next keep up on maintenance. Besides CO2, the next best way to avoid algae. This includes removing any dead or dying plant matter, regular water changes, regular filter cleanings, plant mass management, gravel vacs, etc. And uber clean tank is one of the best defenses against all algae.

And I don't know of any "Pros" that rely on Excel. In fact, I don't know any that use it all, except in maybe a very extreme case. Keep in mind it is an algaecide, and does not promote plant growth at all. In fact, can damage many plants if dosed too much. So if you use it, be careful and study up on what you are doing. IMO, better to address and fix the root causes.


Good luck and look forward to seeing where things go from here.


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## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

Greggz said:


> Keep in mind it does not promote plant growth at all.


?????


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Deanna said:


> ?????


???????

Do you believe Excel promotes plant growth?

The amount of carbon provided is miniscule and almost the same as nothing.

Curious, what about it helps make plants grow?


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## finnystar2992 (Dec 17, 2020)

Greggz said:


> ???????
> 
> Do you believe Excel promotes plant growth?
> 
> ...



Yes, excel has glutaraldehyde in it, which works as an algacide


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## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

finnystar2992 said:


> Greggz said:
> 
> 
> > ???????
> ...


 @Greggz point was that it doesnt do anything to help plants grow. He did agree that its an algaecide, but that only helps plants indirectly.


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## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

Greggz said:


> ???????
> 
> Do you believe Excel promotes plant growth?
> 
> ...


The growth process affected by glut, as you know, is splattered everywhere on this forum and the web, so I don’t want to get into that, here. I think that everything I’m about to say is well known to you, so this is mainly for others that may not be aware.

The carbon contribution of Excel-like products is insignificant as compared to CO2 injection, but it is significant as compared to atmospheric contribution of carbon, and that is where it is useful as a growth-promoting supplement. It would be wasteful to use it in a high-tech tank to promote growth, unless using it purely as an algaecide. However, it does make a noticeable difference in a low-tech tank and particularly when light is a little too much for a low-tech setup. 

Like everything else in this hobby, there are virtually no reliable studies proving this, but Seachem has done so, for those that are willing to believe that Seachem won’t say anything just to sell a product. Anecdotal ‘studies’ are too numerous to remember, but can be easily found throughout TPT. In my case, I used it daily when I had a low-tech setup and I went through many tests adding it, then withdrawing it and the plant growth/health response to each cycle was repeatable and noticeable.

As far as using it as an algaecide, I have found it to be useful only against red algae (hair-type algae, including BBA). Although I only use it with a rare outbreak of red algae, due to process upsets, using it at 1-2ml/gal, one time, wipes out any of this type of algae, but you should do some precationary preparation in advance.

AFAIK, the only plants that may be damaged by Excel are Anacharis (Egeria/Elodia), Vals, Duckweed and Marimo moss balls (which are a form of algae). These plants can be trained to use it if adapted slowly by not doing the recommended “initial” weekly dose and then just half-dosing every other day, gradually building up to recommended levels. Vals, for example, will initially melt and then re-grow fully acclimated to it.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Deanna said:


> The carbon contribution of Excel-like products is insignificant as compared to CO2 injection, but it is significant as compared to atmospheric contribution of carbon


Significant? Can you quantify that?

I know Tom Barr investigated this quite a long time ago, and the conclusion was the the amount of Carbon being added is miniscule and about the same as dosing nothing at all. I'll try to find the link or ask Tom for it. 

As to damaging plants, too much Excel can weaken any plant. The issue is people overdose hoping to help the tank and exactly the opposite can happen. I've even seen people dip plants directly into Excel and are surprised when they melt. It kills things. That's what it is designed for.

But like you said, this has been debated many times over, and neither one of us are likely to change many minds. I don't believe it has any real benefit, while others do. 

I will say if folks use it, just use if sparingly or you could be doing more harm than good.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Deanna said:


> ...The carbon contribution of Excel-like products is insignificant as compared to CO2 injection, but it is significant as compared to atmospheric contribution of carbon, and that is where it is useful as a growth-promoting supplement. It would be wasteful to use it in a high-tech tank to promote growth, unless using it purely as an algaecide...


My personal belief and having used Excel in low-tech is that it can help increase growth, but not by providing carbon. I think it simply "cleanses" things and makes it easier for some plants to uptake nutrients on the leaf surface. We all know it's not co2 and it hasn't been shown anywhere that the plant is up-taking a useful form of carbon. I honestly think in many cases, just better maintenance/light mgmt will do the same thing. 

I never understood the dipping process for getting rid of algae. The existing leaves mean very little, the algae will grow in the tank anyway if conditions are right. You need to grow new leaves anyway, so by dipping your just making it that much harder for the plant to rebound. So I agree with @Greggz there, as well as the chance of over-dosing it, or making some half-a$$ cocktail with excel to fight algae. Many people with small tanks are the ones not using co2 and the likelihood of overdosing is much greater.


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## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

Greggz said:


> Significant? Can you quantify that?
> 
> As to damaging plants, too much Excel can weaken any plant. The issue is people overdose hoping to help the tank and exactly the opposite can happen. I've even seen people dip plants directly into Excel and are surprised when they melt. It kills things. That's what it is designed for.
> 
> But like you said, this has been debated many times over, and neither one of us are likely to change many minds. I don't believe it has any real benefit, while others do. .


C'mon, now: nobody can quantify much of anything in this hobby, e.g.; can you quantify what is *in*significant about it?

I do, basically, agree with both you and @Asteroid that, used improperly, glut may kill (never tried nor seen anyone that has made a connection to doing that). We could say that too much of just about anything we put in our tanks will kill. However, Seachem, like most other products, specifies safe Excel dosing for plant growth and I've used many, many, times the one-time 1-2ml dose with no observable effect upon the type of plants I've had or any fauna (including a few shrimp varieties). I've also had reports from members that have tried it, successfully, as well.

I also give a nod to @Asteroid's theory that glut may clean the leaves. However, I don't believe that, if it happens, it makes any difference in nutrient uptake. If it does clean leaves, I think it may more hinder algae's ability to build on the periphyton on the leaves, by impeding the periphyton.

Yes, glut is designed to kill germs. Alcohol is also used in hospitals for the same reason. Some humans consume alcohol (and would probably drink glut if it gave them a buzz). Too much peroxide? I've killed more fish with that approach than even CO2. Anyone here ever kill fish with too much CO2?


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## finnystar2992 (Dec 17, 2020)

Since I already have co2 in my tank, I don’t see the need to use excel, unless it’s to kill algae. I’m doing intense cleanings in my tank everyday and getting rid of as much algae as possible, I don’t think I’ll need excel


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