# 2.5g Low-Tech Iwagumi



## DevinWolfe (Aug 1, 2009)

Very cool! I will be keeping up with this. I just finished my own 2.5G, I will be starting it's journal this weekend when I get a chance to upload pics.

Are you planning to do stems in this tank? I was considering doing hygro in mine, but I'm not sure how they will look compared to the size of the 2.5.


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Eventually I will. But for now, just marsilea. I don't know about Hygro, because it really _would_ be too big for this size tank. It would throw off the scale. In my past experiences with nano tanks, it's very important to use small-leaved plants. I'm particularly fond of the Rotalas. But also Ludwigia arcuata, Hemianthus micranthemoides, Didiplis diandra, among many others.

Thanks!


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## Mjc20 (Sep 8, 2009)

i had liked this hardscape a little better...










but this one is growing on me


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

I liked it too, but there was always _something_ about it I just couldn't put my finger on. Then when someone mentioned that both rocks were competing for the focal point, it all made sense to me, and I had to agree.

These tiny tanks are tricky! You _think_ you have a lot of room when you are staring at the empty tank, and even after you put your big rock in there as the focal point... but then the moment you start adding your 2nd, 3rd, etc., it dawns on you: Dang! There's only 6 inches of width to work with here!

Anyway, thanks for your comment. Hopefully this scape will grow on you, as I've already accepted it for myself. I like it, because there's more negative space now.


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## Wicket_lfe (Aug 21, 2008)

man, awesome a 2.5. I was hoping to start a shrimp 2.5 soon, then modify a HOB to hide the heater and add some extra water volume. Gluck with this one.


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## Mjc20 (Sep 8, 2009)

Church said:


> I liked it too, but there was always _something_ about it I just couldn't put my finger on. Then when someone mentioned that both rocks were competing for the focal point, it all made sense to me, and I had to agree.


I see what you mean now... (i didnt know this was a 2.5). the pics make it look a lot bigger than it is


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

^ Well I'll take that as a compliment!


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Glad to see Chris sent you awesome plants, too. He is amazing at growing them, isn't he? This will look amazing when it fills in.


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Indeed he is! I am fortunate that he lives so close to me, too.  Thanks for stopping by!


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## Digsy (Mar 4, 2006)

This is looking really nice, so far. I agree, the tank looks a lot larger than 2.5. That petrified rock looks awesome!


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## cah925 (May 18, 2007)

Good start. I wish I knew you were thinking of HM, I just threw out a small batch that would have been perfect for you.


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

^ Well I wouldn't have wanted to put it in this tank just yet anyway, so it's cool. I _do_, however, need some for my 45g, and my local aquatic nursery hasn't had any of it for a long time now, so let me know when you have your next batch of trimmings. 

Thanks guys!


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## _ReApEr (Nov 14, 2008)

Love it so far, totally following.


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## mrparker (Oct 23, 2009)

got water in it yet? I'd like to see it. Cool 2.5 gallon.


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Yep, it was actually already filled in that last pic. But then it was drained. And moved. And now it's filled again!

I now present new pics of my cool little 2.5g! First, the picture-perfect FTS:











Then a few more nice shots from different angles, to show growth:






































And last, since I know someone's going to ask about him, here's one that shows my little djembe guy in better detail:











Hope you liked! :biggrin:


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Update time! :biggrin:

There has been noticeable growth on the marsilea. Seriously, I didn't think I would be able to _see_ the new growth happening on a weekly basis, but it's evident. Here are the pics:






































A closeup of the marsilea, to show the new growth:











And a few parting shots:




























:icon_cool


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## DevinWolfe (Aug 1, 2009)

Looking good Church. I still need to decide on some type of carpet for my tanks and this has me strongly considering mimicking you.


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## leaf (Jun 27, 2009)

I was looking at some marsilea m. @ the lfs today and wondered what it might look like as a carpet. Reminded me alot of glosso but in a low tech kinda way. Good to see you've utilized it as such. Great job planting the stems, it'll fill in nicely. Aren't carpets so much easier to plant in a 2.5? :flick:

Just wondering, but why did you keep the rim? They're real easy to remove from these two-point-fives. Work each corner up little by little, and it'll pop off.


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Honestly, I don't mind the rim so much. I guess, I figured if I removed the top rim I would also have to remove the bottom one too, because I don't really care for the way they look when people only remove the top one. And I was just trying to keep it simple, since this is my only official low-tech tank.

Thanks for the compliments on my planting style.  I spent a long couple of hours carefully cutting each node out of a bundled up mass of marsilea! I used _each_ and every node that came in that bundle, I'm proud to say. No waste whatsoever, for the first time ever. It was just the perfect amount for this little tank. And yes, these little 2.5's are a breeze to carpet! I can see it happening, even with no CO2, in about 2 months I'll bet. :biggrin:

Devin, be my guest! There needs to be more marsilea carpets out there. I discovered right before setting this tank up that there aren't even that many good images out there from just using a google image search. So hopefully this tank will at least provide good pictures of healthy marsilea carpets for others to reference. I'd like to see someone do a big iwagumi, like Amano-style, with marsilea in place of the common glosso. Then a school of 500 cardinals swimming over it!


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

I usually have otos in my tanks which helps keep them free of diatoms, like that front rock on the right. Do any shrimp eat diatoms?


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Dang no responses from before...

Well, I'm definitely dealing with a slight diatom problem. It's not a huge deal, obviously, but it is unsightly. I'm so used to having larger tanks with CO2 and dosing EI, doing 50% water changes a week. But with this tank, things are different, and I'm doing my best to adjust my methods to suit. Here's the diatom issue I'm having:










I haven't dosed the tank in almost 2 weeks, and when I did, I was pretty sure that I didn't use a whole lot of KH2PO4. I'm thinking it was about an 8th of 1/32 tsp. But I also haven't done a single water change on this tank ever. Maybe I should do that?

Are there any snails or shrimp that feast on diatoms the way that otos do? I'm definitely noticing the lack of otos in this tank, which is a first for me, as I always put otos in my tanks. Is a 2.5g too small for a trio of baby otos? I could always move them on to larger tanks as they get bigger, and then replace them with more baby otos...


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## demonbreedr16 (Jan 10, 2008)

I'd add in the otos[and them be the only fish] but I've heard, RCS polish leaves and rocks and stuff, so, you may want to try them first? Oh, Nerite snails will eat algae too...so I've been told.


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## Sarkazmo (Jun 22, 2009)

Nice little tank. I love nano and pico tanks!

I did notice that you're using a Azoo Palm filter. I've got two of those. Just a heads up, you've got the floss and bio-sponge backwards. The water should pass over the bio-sponge last. I did away with both. I use a cut to size square of Marineland's Rite-Size blue and white bonder filter floss wrapped around a fine mesh bag filled with ceramic/glass bio-beads. It pretty much fills the entire media compartment of the filter. This'll significantly add to the filter's ability to deal with larger bio loads.

Sark


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Okay, thanks for the heads up. I guess I didn't even think it would matter, so I was using the bio-sponge as a mechanical AND bio filter, while the floss was being used as a polisher of sorts. Nevertheless, I don't much care for the stock media, and have been thinking about what I could do to customize it. Thanks for the idea! 

Oh yeah, and just for the record, this is the Red Sea version of the same filter. I know they are both probably manufactured in the same factory, but I figured I'd at least point that out.


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## JennaH (Sep 28, 2009)

i really like the marselia. i didn't read all the posts- is this going to be a shrimp tank? i would prob try some nerite snails for the algae if relocating otos later are going to be an issue. and just curious- if this isn't a shrimp tank- what is your stock list?


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Hi Jenna, thanks for popping in! You are correct, there is no stocklist right now. I'm still unsure as to what to put in here. I'll probably end up with a school of Boraras, and a flock of RCS, but that's up to debate.

As of now, the tank is still empty, and there really is no good reason for that! I think, first, I'm going to try putting a trio of young otos in there, to take care of the diatoms. If they seem uncomfortable, or otherwise not happy, I will remove them to my 10g (which also needs a trio of otos, anyway). Then I will get about 5 Boraras maculata (I think), followed by some RCS.

The only thing I've ever kept in a tank this small before was a single Betta. And that was a long time ago. So I'm a nano-noob, I guess you could say.


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## rrrrramos (Jan 24, 2008)

I know you're shooting for the MM to carpet, but the look you have going right now with it is exactly what I'm planning on for my new nano. 
I also dig your setup, but that's mostly because it's the same as my 2.5g was! And the same I'll be using on the new tank.


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Glad you like it! I'm pretty fond of it myself. I'm really looking forward to seeing it carpet, and I can see new growth weekly, but it definitely grows slower than I'm used to. I can tell that this is a non-CO2 tank, that's for sure. But I'm patient, and as long as I have other aquariums to tinker with, I'll be able to let this one do its thing.

Thanks for stopping by!

(Also, I have to ask: what's up with you and the Neil Patrick Harris avatars? I've always wondered, every time I saw your previous avatar, and now that you've changed it, and it's still him, I want to know! )


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## rrrrramos (Jan 24, 2008)

Well before it was his character Dr. Horrible. I figured it'd be out of character if I didn't change it to another one of him haha. I also have a slight obsession with How I Met Your Mother. So if you look at that pic, it's him as Barney from that show, and my custom status thing also says "Suit Up!" from the show. Haha.


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

LOL, I love that show. I could tell that the new avatar came from the show. I was just curious, that's all.


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

I added 3 otos to this tank today. I also added a heater since the house has been getting cold during these cold snaps. Anyway, I've had them in for a few hours now and they've already made a dent in the diatom situation. I chose the smallest 3 to go in this tank. Pics tomorrow...


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## dj2005 (Apr 23, 2009)

This is the tank that got me to purchase Marsilea minuta. Looks great, Church.


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Thanks dj!

Well one of the otos died soon after putting it in the tank. So I'm down to 2. They've sure taken care of the diatom problem though! I've just begun dosing Excel, so now that the diatom blanket is gone the marsilea should get back to growing again. Some new pics:





























The heater is temporary. We've been getting these random cold fronts lately, and I had this heater laying around not being used, so...


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## Dr. Acula (Oct 14, 2009)

I'm liking the nice little tank. Also a fan of the soon-to-be marsilea carpet. In my new 29g, I decided to create a nice little corner of marsilea m. to get some diversity, and because it was like 4 bucks extra in the S&S with the blyxa I already wanted. The stuff's been slowly growing for the last two or so weeks, and it may be a new favorite plant of mine. The new little shoots are good fun to watch sprout up and unfold. And roughly a third of the new shoots have four leaves, a third have two, and the rest one nice big one. It's always a guessing game. Ha, it's very exciting.

Anyway, just wanted to say I think it's looking good. And to convince anyone on the fence about marsilea minuta to go for it. I like it, anyway.


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Thanks Dr. Acula.  Are you sure you don't have M. quadrifolia instead? I'm new to Marsilea myself, so I'm no expert, but all of mine is one-leafed... the way it was sent to me, and the new growth as well. The only difference so far in the new growth is that the leaves are noticeably smaller. But for all I know they will get larger as the plant matures.

Anyway, I just wanted to post a few pics without that godawful heater in the tank. I took it out today because, well, it hasn't even turned on in the last 72 hours, and I think we're safe from cold fronts for a little while now.











The otos are _still_ eating up any remaining diatoms, even since yesterday! Instead of diatoms everywhere there is now strings of oto poop. :icon_lol:




















Otos are the best! :biggrin:


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## Dr. Acula (Oct 14, 2009)

Church said:


> Thanks Dr. Acula.  Are you sure you don't have M. quadrifolia instead? I'm new to Marsilea myself, so I'm no expert, but all of mine is one-leafed... the way it was sent to me, and the new growth as well. The only difference so far in the new growth is that the leaves are noticeably smaller. But for all I know they will get larger as the plant matures.


I'm not entirely positive it's minuta. That's what I was sold it as, and what I was sent looked about exactly like what you have pictured. However, it could have been mislabeled, and it looks close enough that I wouldn't care to get to the bottom of it. I like the way it looks, regardless of exactly which of the roughly 65 species of marsilea it is. I certainly can't be considered an expert.

Also, I just found a shoot that ended up with three lobes. Will wonders never cease?


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Yeah just in general, regardless of the exact species, marsilea is a beautiful plant.


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## JennaH (Sep 28, 2009)

looks much better church! those otos are prob in heaven haha- all u can eat diatom buffet. the dwarf rasboras are cool, but for that size fish i almost prefer the celestial pearl danios


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Thanks Jenna! CPDs don't really school though, do they? I'm hoping to get the school look in here. Otherwise, I might just end up going with a herd of micro shrimp.


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## chris.rivera3 (Apr 15, 2008)

Hey Church!!! From all my research and experience (not much) it will be very difficult to get any fish to school in a small tank...they may school a little bit (espei, rummynose) but they will need more space...just recently I've tried them in a 5 gallon, 10 gallon, and 20 long...they only truly school in my 20 long....and CPDs don't really school but they are hella active and fun to watch!


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Thanks for the info Chris.  But the fish you mentioned (espei and rummynose) are too large for a tank this size... it makes sense that they wouldn't school in a 2.5g. I would not have considered those. I've always thought, though, that the tiny little boraras actually do a good job of schooling in nano tanks. I could be wrong, though. I've never kept them before.

Another thing to consider, in addition to the size of this tank, is that there are no plants to hide _under_, so I'm worried about choosing fish that will feel too exposed, and will be nervous. Aren't CPDs known to be skittish and require hiding spots? I must admit I have been wanting to try keeping them at some point.


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

I found out I might be able to obtain some locally-raised CPDs. Still waiting on a response. In the meantime, can anyone who keeps them tell me if they would be okay in an iwagumi-type layout like this? Where there isn't anything to hide under if they get nervous?


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## JennaH (Sep 28, 2009)

check this out! a whole forum for them 
http://www.celestialpearldanio.com/forum/


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Thank you Jenna!


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## JennaH (Sep 28, 2009)

update?


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Hey Jenna. No, there's nothing new to really report. The tank is spotless, so much so that I removed the otos and placed them in the 20g to work their magic there. The marsilea is growing very well, and noticeably so, ever since beginning to add daily doses of Excel. I'm still researching what fish to put in here, and I'm starting to think that CPDs might not be the best choice. Most people seem to agree that they are shy and need hiding spots. There is literally nowhere to hide in this tank.

So I'm still thinking a small handful of Boraras, or just a colony of shrimp.


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## JennaH (Sep 28, 2009)

good to hear  yea i am double thinking the cpd's also for my 40R because im thinking about a iwagumi layout. can't go wrong with shrimp, and boraras are a good choice too


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## Twimbo (Oct 10, 2009)

I just put six of these in my 10 gallon shrimp tank (Emerald Eye Rasbora's) and I've been pleasantly surprised at how well they school. I would say, that they seem to be in a school, all 6 of them, about 80% of the time.

They also stay at the top of the tank and leave the shrimp alone on the bottom. Don't even bother the shrimp, when the shrimp are eating.


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Wow, beautiful fish but they get to be 6 cm long according to that link. That's ~2.5 inches, for us amurricans. I think they'll get a little too big for this tank.


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## dj2005 (Apr 23, 2009)

JennaH said:


> update?


How about now? I'm anxious to see your MM growth.


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## NJAquaBarren (Sep 16, 2009)

Looks great Church. Are you going to stock with fish, shrimp...?

Look forward to watching this one.

AB


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Okay I'll take a picture today for you guys. Stay tuned.

AB, it just happens that I found out today that I have connections with one of the largest fish farms in the Tampa area, so I've just learned I have access to almost any fish or shrimp I can imagine! I'm waiting for a returned phone call, and then I'll probably be putting a handful of Boraras in here, as well as some micro shrimp.

What shrimp would be good in this tank, along with some Boraras? Anyone?

I have access to basically all the most common shrimp in the hobby, according to their stock list. I'm thinking maybe some type of Bee shrimp? They have farm-raised ones, which means they would be better suited for my harder water, I think.

I can't wait til they call me back!!!


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## JennaH (Sep 28, 2009)

i'm going to be getting some malaysian rainbow shrimp- they are great looking http://www.azgardens.com/p-210-algae-eating-shrimp-malaysian-rainbow.aspx cherries are classic, and i also like the green deora http://www.azgardens.com/p-216-algae-eating-shrimp-dwarf-emerald-green-deora.aspx


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Well, now that I've done through their stocklist, I think I've narrowed it down. Unfortunately, they have incorrect names for a lot of these shrimp. For instance, Blue Tigers are listed as "Blue Cats Eye." LOL. But whatever, I'd be surprised to find out that a wholesaler or fish farm has all the correct names. That's what we hobbyists are for, right?

I'm still trying to figure out what some of the other mislabeled shrimp actually are. Oh yeah, and they also list a few Sulawesi shrimp! Not that I have a tank for any of them, but they list spongicola and cardinals as well. I wonder if they actually have those, or are just planning on stocking them in the future.

I wish my people would call me back!!!

I think I'm going to go with one of the Bee varieties (like Orange Bee or Golden Bee) or with a Tiger variety. Maybe even regular old Tigers. I just first need to figure out what these unknowns are, because they all just say "Caridina sp."


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## Twimbo (Oct 10, 2009)

Church said:


> Wow, beautiful fish but they get to be 6 cm long according to that link. That's ~2.5 inches, for us amurricans. I think they'll get a little too big for this tank.


I'm not sure if you were referring to the Emerald Eye Rasbora, that I mentioned. However, it looks like you are - and it does say here that they get to be 6 cm. However, my LFS told me that they would remain about the size I have them, which is only about an inch. After more research, I found that there is a sub-species of the fish I pointed you to, which only grows to 3.5 cm (look near the bottom for "Rasbora dorsiocellata macrophthalma"). Maybe that is what I have. 

Again, they school very nicely in a small tank. Hopefully they don't get to be 2 inches, or I'll have to move them to my larger tank.


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

^ Ah, okay. Well that would explain why, when I just went to that fish farm stocklist to check on these, it lists Emerald Eye Rasbora as "Rasbora dorsiocellata _dorsiocellata_." I guess that means the ones I have access to are NOT the smaller ones.

I do like those a lot, and I noticed that Amano has a few tanks in Book 2 with them in it. I guess the small ones are unavailable to me though.


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

I almost forgot... picture time:















































There's actually a _tiny_ amount of pearling going on in that 2nd to the last picture there... did you see that? Just from Excel!

Anyway, other than that, I _told_ you guys there isn't much going on with this tank. I do wish the marsilea would grow quicker, but there are new, tiny leaves popping up every day. Patience is a virtue.


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## Strick (Apr 6, 2009)

Agreed - patience is a virtue.

Love the hardscape!


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## NJAquaBarren (Sep 16, 2009)

Hi Church,

I like the Boraras too. But before you pull the trigger, check these out: 

http://rainbow-fish.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=502










These are fantastic little fish. I bought 3 pairs from Gary Lange recently and they are beautiful. Nice and active, well-bahaved, display a lot, and according to Gary are good spawners. Mine are just under an inch long. They tend to stay mid to high in the column, but occasionally go down to explore the bottom of the tank. If you do take an interest there are the "Aru" variety of Gertrudae. The Yellow to Lavender with spots coloration is really nice and looks good in real life too, not just photographs.

I'm enjoying watching your tank take shape. Great luck getting access to a distributor. Have fun.

AB


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Wow those are gorgeous fish!! They remind me of those birds of paradise, from the Planet Earth series... know what I'm talking about? Wow. I will look into those right now.

As far as the distributor, it turns out I already have access to them! I'm just waiting for my "liaison" to call me back so he can phone ahead and tell them who I am and that I'll be coming.

(Basically, long story short, I used to be involved in the reef/SW side of things, and I worked for a friend of the family who opened up one of the first-ever aquaculture businesses in Florida, back in the late 80s. But eventually our friends sold their business during the aquaculture golden age (sometime in the mid 90s) and I ended up slowly drifting away from aquaria altogether. Fast forward to now-- I've been looking for various freshwater fish and inverts, and getting nowhere fast, so I call these friends and find out that they are still in regular communication with the fish farm they sold to. And it just so happens it's one of the biggest ones around! So chances are extremely high that once my friends call them up and tell them they will be sending a family friend out there to get some stuff, it should be no problem at all.)

I just checked their stocklist, and they only offer one type of gertrudae, with no real specifications on varieties or anything. They also don't have a picture for that one. Still, I'm interested. Those are beautiful fish there!


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## JennaH (Sep 28, 2009)

wow- those are great looking fish!! 
and you have much better patience than i do waiting for that marselia!


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Yeah, but my patience is running thin actually. I'm contemplating setting up a CO2 system on this tank, doubling the light, and giving up my dream up having a low-tech tank. Or maybe I could just do all of that until the carpet is full, and then revert back to low-tech.

Patience sucks.


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## Dr. Acula (Oct 14, 2009)

I know exactly what you mean about patience and marsilea. Mine's been growing slowly, sending up new little leaves fairly consistently, yet when I sit back and look at it I can hardly tell the difference from when I just began. CO2 should be here in ~3 days for me though, and set up sometime after that. Hopefully that'll give me a carpet in under a year or two. I can't imagine what a waiting game low tech would be.

Stupid plants, growing all slow-like...


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## dj2005 (Apr 23, 2009)

Church said:


> Yeah, but my patience is running thin actually. I'm contemplating setting up a CO2 system on this tank, doubling the light, and giving up my dream up having a low-tech tank. Or maybe I could just do all of that until the carpet is full, and then revert back to low-tech.
> 
> Patience sucks.


Stick with it, man!

Or not, as I wouldn't mind seeing what a dense carpet looks like.


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Well, I just started doubling the amount of excel I'm dosing every day (~2 mL a day now), and I lowered the desklamp as close as I could get it. I'm going to wait a couple of weeks and see if these changes make a difference. If not, chances are I will change the lighting and hook up my paintball CO2. If it boils down to this, I will change out my 10g and make THAT one my low-tech tank. And I will use tenellum grass as the carpet. At least I know that one grows like MAD in low-light conditions.


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## GTR (May 27, 2009)

I've been following your thread since I have a 3 gallon running just to cycle it. No scape as of yet or plant decisions. Thanks for the ride.

About the aquaculture business... what was it called if you remember? I had bought livestock from a company in FL that was doing live rock farming but lost it all in a storm one year and never recovered. I still have their stock list from 1994 in a envelope with a 29¢ stamp on it. lol


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

It was called Sea Critters. I don't think it's the same one though, because Sea Critters didn't lose their entire business from a storm. I think you might be talking about Hurricane Andrew back in '92. If I remember correctly, it did destroy some (or a lot?) of Sea Critters' reef plots, where they were developing artificial reefs and live rock off the Keys. But they also did domestic aquaculture too, right on their own property in Dover, just inland from Tampa, so they weren't completely wiped out like many of the aquaculture businesses that had placed all of their eggs in one basket, so to speak. It is my understanding that they only sold their business because of an offer they couldn't refuse. But then again, I was pretty young at that time, in high school, and for some strange reason my memory of that time is a little, shall we say, "hazy."

Hurricane Andrew was a bad mamajamma, if anyone remembers that one!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

oooh I like this tank, and I definitely agree with what others have said, it looks much bigger than a 2.5, well done! 

As for stocking, I have CPDs and Boraras briggitae, you are correct in that the CPDs like to have places to hide. Also, they are quite a bit larger than the boraras (i mean, my otos still dwarf them, but the CPDs dwarf the briggitae) so if you want a nice little school of fish, I definitely suggest a boraras species because they are unbelievably tiny, at least the briggitae are. Ember tetras are a pretty little fish too, very brightly colored, closer to the size of the CPDs but not quite as shy. I have all 3 in my 20g, unfortunately i had an incident with the prefilter on my intake falling off and I lost most of my briggitae, i only have 2 left, and to be honest, as tiny as they are, the pair of them are the boldest fish in the tank! :hihi:


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Thanks Kara! I'm 99% sure I'm going with the brigittae in here. Probably about 5 or 6 of them. I've looked at Embers before, but I think they wouldn't be too comfortable in such a small tank, in the long run. 

That being said, I've been looking at that rainbowfish thread that was linked on the previous page, and they are so GORGEOUS!!! I'm not going to put those in here, but I think I've officially decided to setup a 5.5g on their behalf.

I've never had any rainbows before, and other than Furcatas, none have ever really flipped my lid. But those ones on the previous page have my head reeling... I can already see myself staring at them displaying to each other, for hours on end. It would be better than the Planet Earth series, I'll bet.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Awesome, yeah I think brigittae are a really good choice for this tank, you're probably right, the embers are small but probably do need a bit more space. 

I am also right there with you on the rainbows, the linked ones are GORGEOUS and, like you, other than furcatas and gertrudae, none have really ever gotten me that excited. The smaller species really do though! I'm going to be putting a small school of furcatas in my 30g  I was thinking about relocating my 2 brigitte to my 5.5g when i get it set up and getting some more, but after seeing the picture of those aru gertrudae here, I might have to follow your lead and get them instead!


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Nothing really new going on (other than a little GDA). But I'll post a pic anyway:


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## dj2005 (Apr 23, 2009)

Mmm, GDA.

How do you plan to remove the algae?


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

It's nothing a few snails or shrimp can't clean up. It's not bad enough for me to do anything about it, really. But if it gets worse, I'll put some critters in there that'll eat it.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

I like the layout, but I am confused on something. How long did it take to sculpt that little statue of yourself? It looks a LOT like your profile picture. :biggrin:


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Haha.  I'm a little too white, though. It's my little African djembe man!


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

I just figured you worked with the materials you had on hand, lol. It is beautiful.....wait did I just compliment you inadvertantly? Seriously, though, it fits the scape.


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## JennaH (Sep 28, 2009)

grow marselia grrrooowww..


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

sewingalot said:


> I just figured you worked with the materials you had on hand, lol. It is beautiful.....wait did I just compliment you inadvertantly? Seriously, though, it fits the scape.


Thank you!




JennaH said:


> grow marselia grrrooowww..


I knoooooooooooooow!!!! :icon_eek:


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## bigboij (Jul 24, 2009)

looking good, what do you plan on using for the gda, its starting to pop up in my tank and seems to be doubling daily, so far there is only 2 crs in the 2.5 gal. whats a good solitary glass cleaner, i like otos but he would get lonely, and i think having more than 1 would be a lot for such a small tank


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

I actually think a trio of baby otos would be perfect, but I can't seem to find any babies at the moment. I did recently move a pair of full-grown otos in here, and they cleaned all the GDA and diatoms in under 48 hours! I might just do that again. I would just put them immediately back in the 20g when this one is clean. But I'm still holding off on that just yet... I might be able to find some babies this week.

To answer your question more directly... I think getting more cherries would help out. You only have 2 of them right now? You could get another dozen, at least. Also I'm willing to bet that even having snails in here would help out. But this particular tank I made sure to be snail free. I might add some soon anyway.


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## JennaH (Sep 28, 2009)

one of my otos is preggo- if the babies make it, ill send ya one


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Thank you, I'll take you up on that offer! 

Well, I went to the fish farm yesterday hoping to find some baby otos, but they had NONE in stock. Not the right time of year, I guess. But they did have some nice shrimp that had just come in earlier in the day... "orange bees." So I picked up 10 of them. Pictures are forthcoming. Stay tuned...


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

...And here they are! 










































































So there they are.

As I mentioned in this thread (which has more pictures not posted here), I'm not really sure if any or all are actually C. propinqua, which is what they are being sold as. Some look tigerish, some look cherry-ish, and some look bee-ish.


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Very nice. That's a tiny little tank. I like the algae on the rocks.


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## JennaH (Sep 28, 2009)

well, whatever they are, they have great color!


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Thanks, guys!


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## idontknow (May 9, 2008)

Beautiful tank. Never would have guessed that was a 2.5. I love Marsilea as a foreground. Had that as a foreground in my first tank. Most of mine were single lobed but would get the 3 lobers once in a while. Algae on the tops of the rocks looks great. Cant wait to see that foreground fill in.


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## JennaH (Sep 28, 2009)

update time! how are the shrimpies?


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

They are good, actually! I lost 2 of them, one at a time, and I'm not sure why. So to be on the safe side I moved them to my 10g. I think the 2.5g isn't as stable as I would like, at least, not for "special" shrimp. I'm going to just get some RCS next chance I get.

But the tank is looking good, and that little bit of shrimp poop it got fertilized with caused the marsilea to have a growth spurt! I'll take pics later. I'm not at home right now.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Glad to hear you moved the shrimp over to prevent future disasters. I am actually seeing some new growth since the last time I visited. Any more problems with diatoms?


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

No, actually. The only thing that I get in there now is some green dust, and it stays under control for the most part. It looks good on the rocks, too. I'm going to put some cherries in here. I think they are hardy enough to handle some slight instability in this tank's parameters.

I'll take some pictures tomorrow. I haven't been at home all day long. Taking care of my grandfather in hospice.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Church said:


> No, actually. The only thing that I get in there now is some green dust, and it stays under control for the most part. It looks good on the rocks, too. I'm going to put some cherries in here. I think they are hardy enough to handle some slight instability in this tank's parameters.
> 
> I'll take some pictures tomorrow. I haven't been at home all day long. Taking care of my grandfather in hospice.


Sorry to hear about your grandfather. I'll be sending helpful thoughts your way. Know that we are thinking about you. My grandpa was in Hospice about a year and a half ago, it was an amazing experience. I didn't leave his side in his last few weeks. You really get to know what life is all about....

Anyway, I like the green dust as well. It fits for the tank you have. Good luck with the cherry shrimp.


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

^ Thank you, Sara. I can feel how genuine your compassion is and I appreciate that.  I really am getting a whole new perspective on life by being with my grandfather in his last days. It's bittersweet for me, for us all, because it's hard to see someone who was so strong and monumental to me throughout my childhood appear to be so weak and frail now... but at the same time, the decline has been going on for a decade or so now, so I'm ready for him to move on and escape the discomfort he's in. All I can do, for now, is just try to be with him at least once a day, and drive the point home of how special it is that he came to the new world with 11 francs in his pocket, a wife, and 2 kids, and now we have a large faction in America now, all because of him. I keep hoping that sinks in, through the dementia, because I feel like he needs to know that before he checks out.

Obviously I don't want this thread to be a narrative on my grandfather, so I'll move on now and let the subject matter return to fishes and plants.


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## tak13 (Jan 12, 2010)

Church said:


> Wow those are gorgeous fish!! They remind me of those birds of paradise, from the Planet Earth series... know what I'm talking about?


I know what are you talking about, actually i bought and started to watch the series right now.
For the tank, i think i gonna go the same path as you are, low tech. I am just gonna put excel on my tank rather than buy a co2 system, too expensive!

Is your plant grows slow like that?
I have Dwarf Baby Tears, do you think it gonna grow fast if I put Flourish Excel?


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

I've never grown HC before, but as I understand it, it grows _exponentially_ faster than the marsilea species. Marsilea is known for being a slower grower.


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## shoteh (Nov 13, 2007)

Hey Church,

Love the set up, just started a small nano tank as well with microswords.

Are you adding any nutrient tabs at all? My Microswords are growing very slow as well (if any growth at all :hihi and I wonder if it has anything to do with not having tabs.


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

*Hello to everyone at Planted Tank!*

It's been a while since I've been around here. I thought I'd go ahead and update this thread. It's the only tank worth showing at the moment, although all my other tanks are still up and running... it's just, this one is completely maintenance-free!!











I added a betta. His name is Falcor:




















A couple more:




















I think the 2.5g is a perfect tank for a betta.


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

shoteh said:


> Hey Church,
> 
> Love the set up, just started a small nano tank as well with microswords.
> 
> Are you adding any nutrient tabs at all? My Microswords are growing very slow as well (if any growth at all :hihi and I wonder if it has anything to do with not having tabs.


Hey sorry for the late response... no, I don't have any tabs, or ferts of any kind really. I'm sure that has a lot to do with how slow the marsilea is growing... but I like not having to do anything at all with this tank, so I'm okay with it.


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## shoteh (Nov 13, 2007)

Church said:


> Hey sorry for the late response... no, I don't have any tabs, or ferts of any kind really. I'm sure that has a lot to do with how slow the marsilea is growing... but I like not having to do anything at all with this tank, so I'm okay with it.


That's ok, I'm always responding at random times as well. Well I decided to take out my Microswords as they were not feeling happy in my tank and now gonna try something different. Falcor has awesome coloring by the way. I used to breed bettas and recently I acquired a half moon red one to put in my 2gallon vase but felt bad seeing him by himself so I added some snails. :icon_cool Maybe I can try to find a pix sometime.


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## funkyfish (Mar 16, 2009)

Looks great! You can definitely see some growth since first pictures. And thats a beautiful betta you got. 
I have a 2.5g but it's bare bottom all I have there is some moss rocks and a small moss wall I would love to make it iwagumi but need to find some good looking rocks and figure out what I want to plant, I don't think I have enough patience for Marsilea minuta


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

shoteh said:


> Falcor has awesome coloring by the way.





funkyfish said:


> Looks great! You can definitely see some growth since first pictures. And thats a beautiful betta you got.


Thanks guys.  The betta chose me, actually. It was an impulse buy. I was in a petsmart and I walked by the display, and this one was very active, and following me wherever I went. So I liberated him! He was in some blue-tinted water (??!) so I didn't even truly know his colors until after putting him in my tank. His coloration definitely came as a surprise, and he is beautiful. I like how subdued it is.


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## !shadow! (Jan 25, 2010)

You know l had the same thing happen to me on my lfs. My electric blue ram did the same exact thing. Maybe fish have a way of choosing their owners instead or vice versa or maybe he was very hungry


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## Cheapskate (Mar 24, 2010)

I like Falcor! what nice coloring!


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

^ Thank you!

Okay, I added a "white" background to the tank. Why the quote marks? Because it really doesn't make the back look white at all. It's now more of a glowing silver than anything. Almost like frosted glass-- yeah, that's it... frosted glass. But it's just a cut piece of white matte poster board. Nonetheless, I actually kind of like it. I'm not set on it just yet, but I'm giving it a few days. If I don't like it after a while, I'll go black.

Here are the pics:






































That's all for now.


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## mrparker (Oct 23, 2009)

*wow*

almost 6 months later!, i was thinking my microsword was growing slow!

Did you scrub off that green moss on the rocks? forgive me if you already stated so, i havent been on here since about sept or dec ish. Anyways Looks good, it'd be so cool if the bottom was just covered in that. How do you keep algae down and/or off the plants when they are growing so slow?


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

LOL. :hihi:

There was never any moss on the rocks... it was algae. No I never intentionally scrubbed it off, though. Every once in a while I would scrub the glass down. I mean, like once every month or two. But the algae on the rocks is still there. It just doesn't show up so much in these new pictures for some reason. I'm using a different camera now, so that's probably the reason.

I actually never seem to get any GSA on the marsilea. I think there are a couple innocuous spots, but nothing that I can really see. The only thing I tend to get in here is the GDA on the glass, and I think that comes from having such a relatively high amount of light over this small tank, with no CO2.

I just started dosing Excel daily, a few days ago. I'm going to start doing bi-weekly 25% water changes too. So maybe that might trigger the growth a little bit. Plus, there's a betta in there creating lotsa poop now, so...

The reason most of my tanks have been neglected over the last few months is I was taking care of my grandfather in his last days. But he passed, so now I am slowly getting back to a sense of "normal" again. I just started tinkering with my tanks again. This one, though, of all of them, basically just kept right on going, without anything from me! It actually looked better than I remembered it looking, when I finally decided to tinker with it again!

So, this little guy is basically my favorite tank ever now, and I want to help it kick into gear. I'm thinking I might hook up a paintball CO2 setup and lower the light, just to allow the marsilea to carpet up, and then eventually revert back to a low-tech like it is now. Marsilea, for me, has proven to be the best low-tech carpeting plant, but you either have to have lots of patience, or you have to kick start it with high light and CO2 before eventually settling into low-tech mode.


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## yikesjason (Jul 2, 2008)

Sorry about the loss of your grandfather. I can see the bitter sweetness of it. 

The tank looks to be doing well. I say go for the high tech to get that marsilea going. I have some quadrifolia in my big tank and it took forever to get started, but once it did, it really took off.


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

*Update*

I just thought I would update this thread. The marsilea is still slowly spreading out. Nothing too exciting. But hey, this tank is 99.9% maintenance free!


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## PinoyBoy (Mar 14, 2008)

Tank looks nice.

What happened to the shrimp and the betta?

ANd what are those green things on the left back corner of the tank on the substrate?

<-- Didn't bother to read some of the pages


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

The shrimp were moved on to another tank for a while, and eventually given away. The betta, on the other hand, was eaten by my cats. 

It's a painful memory...


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## Urbnbtta (Sep 26, 2010)

nice setup, i personally really like the algae!


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## akdmks (Nov 15, 2009)

update?


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

I just moved into a new house, and the aquariums are still being set up. I still haven't even begun unpacking yet. But updates will come, I promise. This tank is still going strong, although it hasn't really progressed much, due to neglect. But it still looks good, and I'm going to kick things up a bit. Stay tuned...


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

You're alive! Hi Church. Congrats on the move.


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

*Update time!*

Thank you Sara! So, my fiancee wanted the little nano to be in the kitchen. Here it is in its new location:





























I am currently working on obtaining an AquaClear 70, in which I will be using an impeller from an AquaClear 20, and this will be my HOB filter. Currently I just change the water once a week while there is no filter. But once I do the HOB conversion, I will add some shrimp or something. This tank has been going for several years, and I plan on keeping it the way it is. The marsilea keeps growing, even though I do nothing. I'm just curious how long I can keep this tank the way it is, with the same plants. I expect I'll have this tank even when I'm an old man. Maybe then the marsilea will finally have carpeted. :hihi:


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Oh yeah, by the way, some of those leaves look funky and emersed-looking. That's because at one point I had let the water evaporate almost all the way, and they started growing that way. I think I stopped it in its tracks, though.


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## Bree (Dec 17, 2010)

Beautiful betta, i had to slap my hand and clench my jaw when i saw one like yours at the petstore last visit, super pretty! 

And i love your setup, can't wait to see it all grown in!!


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Thank you Bree. Unfortunately though, that betta became cat food a while back.  I now have a plastic top over the tank, but I still haven't replaced the betta.


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Yesterday I trimmed all the tall, multiple-lobed leaves, to get it all back to looking like submerged marsilea is supposed to look. I then did a water change to vacuum out some of that white crap that was covering the substrate. It was basically just dead algae from an Excel overdose I did during the move. I think it looks much better now... sorry I was too lazy to clean the glass:





























Here's the view my soon-to-be-wife gets to see while preparing dinner:











Now I just need to get another betta in there. For now, I like the idea of this tank being a betta tank. But once I get an AC70 on this thing, it'll probably become a shrimp tank.


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Today we picked up a new betta, and a nano filter to keep his water clean. Here he is:




















I think it's time for a black background... or maybe white?


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

awesome!!! He's beautiful! I actually used to have a very similar looking betta, I was drawn to him because you don't see too many orangey colored bettas, good pick! :biggrin:


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Thank you! My fiancee actually picked him, and it was definitely because of the color. I was describing it as a "brick red" but you are right, there's an orangey thing going on. Plus, that light, sky blue brushing on his fin is very pretty as well.

I just put a background on the tank tonight. I tried white, and it didn't look good at all. So I went with good old black:











Also, we have picked a name for this little guy: Virgil.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

very cool! The background looks good, it makes the colors of the plants and the betta both really pop  

And yes, my guy had an iridescent purpleish blue tint on the "white" end of the tail too, gorgeous!


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Why did you do this to me, Church? I love your tank so much that I am now looking at my empty 2.5 gallon thinking maybe I could set it back up. The background really makes it look wonderful. P.S. Your finance has great taste in fish. She's a keeper!


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Yes she is! 

Well I think you _should_ get your 2.5 up and running! I want to start doing more of these, actually. I was thinking of lining a few up in a row and then lighting them all with a shop light. They are so cheap, and so are the nano filters, that I could have several of them, and get to grow more plants!

The boss lady took some pictures tonight, and she's the true photographer between us:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

The third and fourth pictures are fabulous! That is an amazing betta. 

1. I think your finance needs to take a future pictures of your tank.
2. I think that black jar/jug next to the tank looks great there
3. The knives are kind of intimidating, lol
4. Nice setup!
5. Yes, you need more.


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