# Bookshelf 6.6 gallon aquarium start.



## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

Found out tonight, before a water change, that my tank (2.5) looks like it has completed the cycle.

Ammonia = 0 -25 ppm
Nitrite = 0 ppm
Nitrate = 5.0 ppm

So, I took a sponge that was in there out, brought it to the new tank and gave it a squeeze and then brought the sponge back to the 2.5 tank.

Should I also pull some substrate from the 2.5 and put it in and if so, how much?

Thanks for any/all replies.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

It's done. I moved everything into the new tank and the water is really cloudy at this point. 

Once it settles down in about 24 hours I'll add my betta into his new home. I actually can't wait for that part, because I think the bigger room will be a nice surprise to him.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

The cloud settled really quickly last night and so did the temp of the tank, so I added Jor into his new environment last night.

To say that he's happy is a vast understatement. He's been busy exploring his new environment. 

Luckily, today is his fasting day, so I really could just leave him alone to just go about doing his exploring.

It's been 24 hours since I set up and seeded the tank.

The results:

I don't do PH, because they've been pretty much the same thing for me, so I don't expect them to change at all.

Ammonia = 0.50 ppm (test from tap reads 0.25 ppm)
Nitrite = 0
Nitrate = 0

I was going to do a fishless cycle, but a couple of people on the forums suggested going to fish-in route once again, because I just went through it and know what to expect this go around.

I also have so start thinking/learning about compatible tank mates.


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## mott (Nov 23, 2006)

MDubbs said:


> The cloud settled really quickly last night and so did the temp of the tank, so I added Jor into his new environment last night.
> 
> To say that he's happy is a vast understatement. He's been busy exploring his new environment.
> 
> ...


Are you going to keep the 2.5 up? Be careful of tankmates, I don't know if I would put any other fish in the bookshelf tank betas are pretty aggresive, I would stick with shrimp and snails.
It's strange, I had a few betas in the past and everytime I put small fish in with the Betta the Betta would get sick and die within a few days, this was after qt with the new fish.
Not saying this will happen to you, just saying to be cautious with tank mates.
I used to put a small mirror on the side of the tank and watch my Betta flare up n get all angry at himself lol try it it's so funny.
Good luck with the new tank, those 6.6g are a fun little tank.


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## jeepguy (Jul 24, 2013)

It is not uncommon from what I read for a betta to become stressed from other schooling fish. They prefer to be left alone. Snails should be fine or Amano shrimp should be safe.


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## mott (Nov 23, 2006)

jeepguy said:


> It is not uncommon from what I read for a betta to become stressed from other schooling fish. They prefer to be left alone. Snails should be fine or Amano shrimp should be safe.


Yea I wish I would have known, I loved those betas, haven't had one since, might bring the 6.6 back from the dead and try another Betta, this time with just the Betta.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

Yea, that's what I planned on getting. There will be no other fish in the tank. It's his domain, I just want some fun other little things to go in there with him.

Snails and shrimp were the main thoughts. I just don't know what kind to get.

Someone had said at one point, cherry shrimp, but I'm not sure if he would get along with those.


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## jeepguy (Jul 24, 2013)

I do have cherry shrimp in with my betta. He does go after them. Haven't seen him catch any. Still at least the ten I ordered. But not all betta the same.


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## mott (Nov 23, 2006)

Yup, I had red cherry shrimp in with my Betta and he was way too slow to catch any.
Look in the swap n shop section, most people sell them for about a buck each, unless you can find them at your local fish store but they probably will be more like 2 or 3 dollars per shrimp.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

Yea, I'll try adding them in after the tank gets cycled.

Should I be concerned with over population. I know that both snails and shrimp has a tendency to multiply.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

Second test for this tank and the results... are interesting.

ammonia = 0.50 ppm (Tap tests at 0.25 ppm)
nitrite = 0 ppm
nitrate = 5.0 ppm

Is it possible that my tank could cycle that fast?


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## mott (Nov 23, 2006)

MDubbs said:


> Second test for this tank and the results... are interesting.
> 
> ammonia = 0.50 ppm (Tap tests at 0.25 ppm)
> nitrite = 0 ppm
> ...


If you used the media from your old setup the. Yes the cycle will be sped up but your still showing ammo so your not out of the woods yet, as far as the shrimp bio load goes, I don't think you'll have any problems, I had about 100 in my 5 gallon at one point with no problems.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

Yea, I figured that. I just did a water change of about 75%.

I'm assuming I leave the media from the old tank in there awhile? (the filter media and sponge)

I'm also a tad confused. I know that my ammonia straight out of the tap is at 0.25 ppm, so I guess that's what I'm looking for as my base in the tank?


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## mott (Nov 23, 2006)

MDubbs said:


> Yea, I figured that. I just did a water change of about 75%.
> 
> I'm assuming I leave the media from the old tank in there awhile? (the filter media and sponge)
> 
> I'm also a tad confused. I know that my ammonia straight out of the tap is at 0.25 ppm, so I guess that's what I'm looking for as my base in the tank?


The Bactria in your tank should eat up that ammo quickly from the tap once the colony is strong enough.


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## jeepguy (Jul 24, 2013)

If you have ammonia in your tap I would probably use prime instead of reg dechlorinator at water changes.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

I'm using Prime. Have been for weeks.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

Mott: Thanks for all the help, I truly appreciate it.


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## jpappy789 (Jul 28, 2013)

I'm not sure if I mentioned it in one of your previous threads, but some ammonia may be showing up due to the breakup of chloramines in your tap from using the Prime. Not only will the Prime "detoxify" it but, as mott said, that should be used up pretty quickly once the colony is fully established.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

So with a reading of 0 ppm nitrites and 5 ppm of nitrates, I should assume that it's happening.

I just haven't read of it happening this quickly.


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## jeepguy (Jul 24, 2013)

If ammonia and nitrite zero, with a reading of 5 nitrate, your cycle should be done. You can test it by adding more ammonia and it should return to zero within 24 hours.then u wll know for sure you are done cycling.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

The fish is in the tank Jeepguy, so adding more ammonia isn't a good thing.

I went and bought some moneywort and three ghosts shrimp, but I think I'll put them in the 2.5 tank, until I'm sure the other one is done cycling.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

Alright, another test.

Ammonia = 0.25 ppm (Same as out of tap)
Nitrite = 0.25 ppm
Nitrate = 0 ppm

Alright, again... I'm confused.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

So, I put in the ghost shrimp with him. Four of them to be exact. At first he ignored them, but then he started to notice. 

He's basically telling them it's his domain, but they're too fast for him thus far.

This was after my water change. Changing water is sort of like brushing teeth at this point, a habit.

Planted the moneywort and he really seems to like that plant.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

It's been about 24 hours since adding the ghost shrimp and even though my betta has gone over to them, they seem to be too fast and he doesn't seem to be much interested in a fight with them.

More like a "what the heck are you?" type thing going on.

http://instagram.com/p/d0yq89h7NX/

I'm going to do another water test, but I'm not sure if I should be treating this like my 2.5 tank and doing 75% water changes or if I should do about 50%.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

Alright, test before the another massive water change:

ammonia = 0.50 ppm
nitrite = 2.0 ppm
nitrate = 5.0 ppm


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## mott (Nov 23, 2006)

You don't want to bury the rhizome roots of that java fern, if you can attach it to rock or driftwood with some sewing thread. 
50% wc's should be fine.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

Good to know about the Java Fern, before I had it attached to the bridge ornament, but decided against that.

I'll have to see if I can find a suitable rock to do that.

I added a little sea shell cave for the ghost shrimp to hide in. Once I put them back in the tank, they went right into it.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

I'm about to do another water test tonight, after skipping yesterday, even though I still did a 50% wc.

I'll tell you, ghost shrimp are aptly named. I can't seem to find them with the light on at times and still need to use a flashlight to find them.

Came home tonight and saw three of them, went out for thirty minutes, came home and now I can't seem to find a single shrimp.

Also, and I'm kind of concerned about the Hydor 25w heater I have in there. 

Today after getting home I noticed that the light was on, even though the dial is set to 79 degrees. I turned on the thermometer to see that my tank was at 86.5. I immediately dropped it down to shut the light off and then put it back at 79, but now I'm paranoid about it.

I'll post the test results once I'm done.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

Readings for tonight, before my 50% WC.

Ammonia = 0.25 ppm ( Reads 0.25 ppm straight from tap )
Nitrite = 5.0 ppm
Nitrate = 5.0 ppm

It's been about a week since I've set up the tank and put the old cycled media in there from my 2.5 gallon. I'm not sure, when I actually take that stuff out, but I'm thinking it should be soon.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

So, I did the water change and pulled out the Java fern to expose the rhizome roots and the fern basically came apart on me. A few leafs fell off and I took the rest and just put it through one of the openings on my bridge ornament, so the whole thing is exposed.

This will be the second Java fern that I've killed if this one doesn't make it.


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## mott (Nov 23, 2006)

MDubbs said:


> So, I did the water change and pulled out the Java fern to expose the rhizome roots and the fern basically came apart on me. A few leafs fell off and I took the rest and just put it through one of the openings on my bridge ornament, so the whole thing is exposed.
> 
> This will be the second Java fern that I've killed if this one doesn't make it.


If the roots are still alive don't worry it'll grow new leaves usually.

Keep that filter media in there for a few months besides the floss of course, when you decide you want to remove it take out 50% wait two weeks and remove the rest and replace if you really need to.
Otherwise is it hurting anything by leaving it in? Do you have a pic or anything on how you put the media in?
Just curious why you feel the need to replace it...


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

No, I don't cel the need to replace it. It was just a general question.

My latest news is that my Hydor 25 watt heater is acting up. I have it set for 79 degrees, but my thermometer is reading about 82 and the light on the heater isn't shutting off.

I'm very concerned about it.


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## mott (Nov 23, 2006)

MDubbs said:


> No, I don't cel the need to replace it. It was just a general question.
> 
> My latest news is that my Hydor 25 watt heater is acting up. I have it set for 79 degrees, but my thermometer is reading about 82 and the light on the heater isn't shutting off.
> 
> I'm very concerned about it.


Don't be too concerned, setting it at 79 and reading 82 is pretty common for most heaters, turn it down a bit and keep an eye on it.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

Yea, as soon as I read what you had to say, I went over to check on it and the light clicked off. It's reading 80.4, so maybe the temp was uneven in the tank.

I just did the test for today:

ammonia = 0.25 ppm 
nitrite = 5.00 pm
nitrate = 10 ppm

Nitrite seems to be steady and Nitrates doubled over night.


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## mott (Nov 23, 2006)

MDubbs said:


> Yea, as soon as I read what you had to say, I went over to check on it and the light clicked off. It's reading 80.4, so maybe the temp was uneven in the tank.
> 
> I just did the test for today:
> 
> ...


Just keep it up, takes up to a month to cycle sometimes.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

Yep, the 2.5 was a great learning experience. I know that water changes daily will have to happen. I just hope that 50% wc are enough.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

1 am and decided to test the water from the earlier change. Now I'm not sure if 50% is going to cut it.

ammonia = 0.25 ppm
nitrite = 5.0 ppm
nitrate = 5.0 ppm

I just don't know if I should do another water change at this point.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

*Camera Hog*

http://instagram.com/p/d_QhCPh7Fj/


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

I'm about to do my first water change of possible two for today. I removed Jor and went to remove the ghost shrimp. 

I got one on top into the net and he jumps clear out of the net onto my floor. I tried to pick him up several times, but couldn't do it. He was bouncing around and luckily there was a small puddle of water, because I then get a gentle grip on him/her with a washcloth and put him in the jar.

He appears to be fine, but I don't really expect him to survive after that.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

Another thing that I'm kind of concerned about at this point, is the fact my plants appear to be dying.

I don't know what this plant is, because I got rid of the packaging, but it appears to be healthy and my ghost shrimp love to hide under the leaves. It's in the middle of my tank.










Again, I'm not sure of this plant's name, but it appears to be turning brown in spots and on occasion I'll find some of the tiny leaves floating on the surface of the tank.










Finally, my poor Java Fern. I'm about to give up on this plant, because I can't seem to maintain it at this point. Recently taken out of the substrate and rubber banded to a rock.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

I did a water change a couple of hours ago and just tested:

Ammonia = 0.50 ppm (I'm wondering if the prime has had a chance to work it's magic?)
Nitrite = 0.25 ppm

Nitrate = 0 ppm

Oh no, did I just reset the whole process or am I testing to early after the WC?


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## mott (Nov 23, 2006)

You remove the inhabitants when you do a water change?


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

Yes.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

I usually remove the Betta. I have kept the shrimp in while doing it the past couple of times with no problem, but they're getting great at hiding and decided to remove them this time.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

I did my test and 50% water change for today.

Before the water change:

Ammonia 0.25 ppm
Nitrite = 5.00 ppm
Nitrate = 10 ppm

Unfortunately, I also have bad news:

This day shall be forever known as: "The Great Ghost Shrimp Tragedy of 2013".

4 ghost shrimp to start.

2: ghost shrimp hiding under the bridge

1: ghost shrimp M.I.A.

1: ghost shrimp found.... in two parts.


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## mott (Nov 23, 2006)

MDubbs said:


> I did my test and 50% water change for today.
> 
> Before the water change:
> 
> ...


Are you sure the shrimp didn't just molt?

It used to scare me sometimes when they molted, it can look like a dead shrimp


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

I'm only finding three of them now. I think they might have turned on the one that jumped out and landed on the floor.

I'm actually not to upset over it, better than the fish going belly up. I'm going to continue with the 50% water changes every night and hope that the tank cycles sooner, rather than later.

If he did molt, I'll let you know if he turns up.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

I know that I've been pretty involved, when it comes to posting my water testings and stuff, but I haven't really posted anything about my thoughts, idea, ect.. ect..

This tank sits in my bedroom, to the right of my bed. I'm finding that it's a pretty good thing to have if you suffer from insomnia, like I do.

I actually had a terrible night last night trying to sleep. I think that I might have nodded off for about an hour, but it's usually like that. I can't make heads or tails of if/when I slept or for how long.

When I got up out of bed, I decided to use a small flash light and look around. My betta was clearly sleeping, as his gills were moving, but he was perfectly still otherwise.

The three remaining shrimp were going about their business of cleaning the left over scraps/junk. I did count three and I do believe that the fourth ghost shrimp was rejected and torn to shreds. 

I've also made a decision to replace the bulb in the hood with a better/brighter bulb, because I think that's why the plants aren't doing so well. That and the fact that this tank doesn't have actual dirt in it at all.

I'm kind of regretting that fact. I should have gone fully planted, but the fact is I'm a total newb and wouldn't know the first thing about getting it started.

Next time or if this tank ever needs to be redone, I'll take it into consideration. I might take a full shot of my aquarium later and post it.


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## mott (Nov 23, 2006)

I was gonna suggest some Eco complete or something but you seemed pretty intent on that gravel and the blue thingies

The one good thing about this is if you do decide to go with a better substrate you will be much more knowledgable and your stocking is pretty low and hardy to boot plus ghost shrimp are what 35 cents? You could drop your Betta n shrimp in the 2.5 while the dust clears and be done with it easily.

Just make sure you plan it out and post here what you are planning and we'll help!

Ps you should get some floaters ie duckweed, frogbit etc your Betta will love it.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

Yea, the ghost shrimp cost .40 each, so not that big of a deal.

I don't think I'll be doing a substrate anytime soon, but really do think that the light inside the tank isn't helping at all. 

Oh and my testing for today, before the 50% wc.

Ammonia = 0.25 ppm
Nitrite = 5.00 ppm
Nitrate = 5.0 ppm


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

Oh and Mott:

I've noticed that both Petsmart and Petco are not that great for getting any types of plants. I even went to ask for help, when getting the bookcase aquarium at Petco and both attendants states that they didn't know one thing about plants.

Todays parameters, before 50% water change:

Ammonia 0.25 ppm
Nitrite = 5.0 ppm
Nitrate = 5.0 ppm

I don't think I'll test for a couple of days and just do the water changes. It seems pointless to do it every day.


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## dohbofus (Sep 11, 2013)

MDubbs said:


> Todays parameters, before 50% water change:
> 
> Ammonia 0.25 ppm
> Nitrite = 5.0 ppm
> ...


Chasing numbers will make you crazy. Do it once a week or so. You'll know by look when things are going badly.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

Yea, I figured that.

I also went out to a local hardware store and bought a brighter light for the tank. I don't know if it will promote growth amongst the plants, but it was worth a shot.

At least it looks better visually.


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## mott (Nov 23, 2006)

MDubbs said:


> Oh and Mott:
> 
> I've noticed that both Petsmart and Petco are not that great for getting any types of plants. I even went to ask for help, when getting the bookcase aquarium at Petco and both attendants states that they didn't know one thing about plants.
> 
> ...


The best place to buy plants is right here at TPT! You should look for floaters itl hep with the cycle. I saw a guy selling a mixed variety in the for sale forums just earlier.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

Mott: I would buy it, but right now cash is low and bills are high.

I also noticed today, that Jor went after one of the ghost shrimp and almost got him. Now I'm thinking he tore into that other shrimp and ripped him in half.


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## mott (Nov 23, 2006)

It happens, it all depends on the fish, after a while mine gave up and actually shared food off the substrate lol

As far as the cash thing I totally understand, but I just bought a bunch of floaters for 9 bux shipped in the fs section, might be able to send you some soon.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

Mott: Oh that's cool to know.

Thanks for the offer, it's greatly appreciated.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

I just tested the water, after laying off for a couple of days.

ammonia = 0.25 ppm
nitrite = 2.0 ppm
nitrate = 5.0 ppm


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## mott (Nov 23, 2006)

Looks like nitrites are coming down a bit, how often do you feed?


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

Once in the morning, before I leave for work at about 6:30 am and then at night at about 7pm.

I feed him the smaller sized pellets and also throw in a treat for him on occasion. (Either freeze dried blood worms or frozen ones)

I don't overfeed. I use my best judgement, as I've read that his stomach is as big, as his eyeball.

I also know that the shrimp are doing there job, because at night (when he's sleeping) they're very active.


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## mott (Nov 23, 2006)

MDubbs said:


> Once in the morning, before I leave for work at about 6:30 am and then at night at about 7pm.
> 
> I feed him the smaller sized pellets and also throw in a treat for him on occasion. (Either freeze dried blood worms or frozen ones)
> 
> ...


There is really no need to feed twice every day although I'm sure many people do it, I feed every other day and my fish are still plump and healthy.
While the cycle is ongoing maybe try feeding one or every other day.


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## jpappy789 (Jul 28, 2013)

I agree with mott...your betta wont need that much food. And what you add in (food) becomes waste on the way out (ammonia/nitrite/nitrate).


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

Will do, thanks for the advice!


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

Alright, so a quick update.

I'm basically home from work for the next 1.5 -2 hours and then have to go back in until 8pm for a meeting.

I really wasn't looking forward to a water change or testing the water, but I decided that seen that I didn't test yesterday, I would have to do it today.

So, I tested and here are the results.

ammonia = 0.25 ppm
nitrite = 0.25 ppm
nitrate = 10 ppm

Needless to say I'm stoked. I've decided to leave it alone and test again tomorrow.


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## mott (Nov 23, 2006)

Looks like you are almost there!!


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

Yea, I'm pretty excited about it, but for every good thing there's a bad thing.

I think he's eating his tail again, it looks frayed.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

Just found another ghost shrimp at the bottom of the tank, in half.


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## mott (Nov 23, 2006)

Betta might be the culprit? Tail could be two things, stress from cycling and or the shrimp could possibly be stressing him, I had one Betta that couldn't be bothered by anything and another that was a warrior lol didn't like anybody.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

Yea, but the ghost shrimp haven't really been coming out during the day, only at night, when Jor is sleeping in his log.

I'll end up buying more, but I need more hiding spots for these little guys.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

So, I came home to find him swimming in a very erratic pattern back and forth within a three inch radius. 

His tail looks more frayed and one of his side fins is now frayed.

I immediately pulled him from the tank and set up the 2.5 and added aquarium salt to the mix. I'll be keeping him in there until needed.

I also be retesting the water parameters. It sucks, I wanted to have more in the tank, but it looks like he can't handle it.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

*Fin Rot*

Now I'm just confused and worried.

I moved him back to the 2.5 jar with AQ salt thrown in. I put his old heater back in there and the current is basically non existent on that filter, because of the baffle.

I might take the time and replace the baffle on the new filter, because I think that might be part of the problem. ( I'll post a pic in awhile to show what I'm talking about ) It currently has the main flow baffled, but I didn't know that there would be another small flow to the right of the main flow. 

Anyhow, the confusing part is that what I'm reading states that I should put him in another tank alone, but then I should do a 100% water change in the tank he's coming from.

I just got this tank cycled. I did another test just now and these are the current readings:

ammonia = 0.25 ppm (same as tap)
nitrite = 0.25 ppm
nitrate = 10 ppm

I got the same readings 24 hours ago. My worry is that doing a 100% water change will reset things.

I don't want to do anything until I've gotten some advice on hand, because I just got this cycle done with and don't want to start from scratch, again.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

So, here's the test results. From left to right: ammonia, nitrite, nitrate.










And this is the baffle. As you can see on the right, where the intake tube is, it flows out of that side also. I'm wondering if that might have something to do with his stress level.










Still not sure if a 100% water change and cleaning (via vac) of the gravel is needed.


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## mott (Nov 23, 2006)

Why did you move him? Was it because of the shrimp? Don't vac the substrate completely, just a light vac above, you don't want to remove too much of the bacteria in the substrate.

Why would you need to do a 100% wc? It looked like you were almost done. Stick with the 50-75% as you were.

Stress is common when you cycle a tank with fish in the tank, just stay on top of the wc's as you were. Maybe remove the shrimp? I'm sure he liked his new 6 gallon.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

I think the mystery has been solved.

I looked up if Ghost shrimp could attack him and if they were true ghost shrimp they wouldn't.

I then found the information for palaeomonetes (ghost shrimp) vs 
macrobrachium (they look like ghost shrimp)

There is one distinctive feature on ghost shrimp and it's the small orange marking on the tail of the shrimp. Neither of the remaining shrimp have any markings.

So, I'll do a light vac of the water tonight with a 50% water change and get them out at the same time. I'll then add AQ salt and put him back in. He's more important than those guys.

Do snails attack Bettas or should I be ok with those? I still might try cherry shrimp.


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## mott (Nov 23, 2006)

MDubbs said:


> I think the mystery has been solved.
> 
> I looked up if Ghost shrimp could attack him and if they were true ghost shrimp they wouldn't.
> 
> ...


Nope snails are fine, they only attack dead fish


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

What about cherry shrimp?


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## mott (Nov 23, 2006)

You could try, it all depends on the individual. They definitely won't attack tho lol


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

Alright, so I know that a couple of snails and cherry shrimp should be good to go.

I did a water change and got the shrimp out of there, put some AQ salt in there and put the temp just right. 

He's already a lot calmer swimming, then he was when I found him. I was really worried, we'll see how he looks in a week.

At least I think the tank is cycled. I'll do another test tomorrow to check the parameters and if they're good to go, I'll be a happy camper.


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## mott (Nov 23, 2006)

Good going, did you ever try the mirror trick? I used to put a small mirror on the side of the tank and watch my Betta flare up and get all exited lol


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

Yea, I have a mirror that floats inside the tank. I didn't do that with him today though.

I hope he survives this.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

So, the day after. He looks more calm right now, but when I walked in from work he was spazzing out. It might be because I came in, but I don't know what that was all about.

I do have a question about water readings for this tank though.

I know that getting ammonia and nitrite down to 0 is the goal, but what target should I be aiming for in regards to Nitrate?

I'm really worried, because that fin is really shredded along with his tail.

Water results for this afternoon:

ammonia = 0.25
nitrite = 0.25
nitrate = 10 ppm


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## mott (Nov 23, 2006)

MDubbs said:


> So, the day after. He looks more calm right now, but when I walked in from work he was spazzing out. It might be because I came in, but I don't know what that was all about.
> 
> I do have a question about water readings for this tank though.
> 
> ...


For planted tanks we shoot for 40 or more.

You'll be fine up to 50 ppm. Once you get that high it should be time for a wc but you seem to be on top of things so they most likely wont get that high


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

Yea, I did another partial water change and added some more aq salt in there.


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## mott (Nov 23, 2006)

Got a pic of your fish and his tail?


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

No, but I can later on and I'll post it.

I'm more concerned with his left fin. I should just rename him Nemo.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

*photos*

Here are the photos of the damage.

The tail is frayed, but by this photo you can't really tell the damage, but it's there. I just hope fin rot isn't in there with it.










Here's his little Nemo fin and what I'm more concerned about.


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## mott (Nov 23, 2006)

He looks pretty good except for that fin, hopefully he will recover, there are meds for finrot if that's what he has.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

I can tell you he seems way more relaxed. I think when he was sleeping, the shrimp were trying to eat the slime coat right off of him.


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## Shimagoma (May 15, 2012)

Maybe you can distract the shrimp with some zucchini or food the betta leaves alone?


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

The shrimp are gone. They were being fed enough, there was no reason for them to attack Jor.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

Water parameters for tonight. I'm not going to test tomorrow and now have to decide when to start the weekly water changes.

ammonia = 0.25
nitrite = 0 ppm
nitrate = 5.0 ppm

I think I'm going to Petsmart on Tuesday and look into snails to start off with and then I'll decide what to do after that.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

I'm suppose to hit Petsmart on Tuesday and I'm wondering what I should look into next.

I know that snails are okay and I'm going to hope that some sort of shrimp will do, but I'm also looking into other things that might be able to be compatible with my Betta fish.

Any recommendations?

I've also decided that I'm going to make him a Betta cave.


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## mott (Nov 23, 2006)

Stick with shrimp and snails, like I stated before, I felt sooo guilty when I added more fish with my Betta and a few days later he was dead, I think he stressed himself so much he got sick and died.


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## tithra (Dec 1, 2012)

I agree, this tank really isn't big enough to try keeping other fish with your betta (having had this tank before)


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

Yea, I agree that fish are out of the question. I just don't know if Petco carries cherry shrimp at all. I'm weary about getting more ghost shrimp.

Any thoughts on what type of snails? Really nervous about the way they reproduce.


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## tithra (Dec 1, 2012)

MDubbs said:


> Yea, I agree that fish are out of the question. I just don't know if Petco carries cherry shrimp at all. I'm weary about getting more ghost shrimp.
> 
> Any thoughts on what type of snails? Really nervous about the way they reproduce.


I have kept Nerites and apple (mystery) snails with my bettas in the past. Nerites need brackish water to reproduce and apples need a male and female and will lay eggs above the water so they can easily be seen and gotten rid of if you don't want babies.

I would only do 1 apple in that tank given their bioload, or I think you could get away with a couple Nerites, particularly the little horned ones (these are great for eating algae, the apples not so much). I've never seen Nerites at my chain stores but you may be able to find them at an lfs or aquabid is an option.

I'd persknally avoid the shrimp. I have kept ghosts and am currently keeping Amanos with one of my bettas but it really depends in the personality of the fish if they will tolerate shrimp. Many will not. I had to swap fish when I added the Amanos because the first betta was attacking them... I also have a 13 gallon which helps in terms of hiding spots.


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## mott (Nov 23, 2006)

Can you afford ten bucks for plants? This guy is selling a good size of wl which would be great for your tank!

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=440465


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

Yea, I can't do much of anything right now.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

What do the apple snails eat???


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## tithra (Dec 1, 2012)

MDubbs said:


> What do the apple snails eat???



Check out applesnail.net for good info on their care. But I usually would throw in algae wafers and veggies (kale, spinach, cucumber, romaine etc) for them a couple times a week. 


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

Thanks Tithra!


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

I went to Pet Smart and bought a few items, the smallest being one nerite snail. 

I tried to get an apple snail, but they only had one and it was just an empty shell.

We'll see how this goes!


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

The snail was moving around last night, but today I found it on the bottom of the aquarium and the opening where the snail comes out is cover in white.

Oh and I found out that the bridge ornament is cracked. I have no idea how it happened, but I'll just use some of the solvent to fix it.

Meanwhile, I'm trying to find something perfect for a Betta cave.


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## tithra (Dec 1, 2012)

MDubbs said:


> The snail was moving around last night, but today I found it on the bottom of the aquarium and the opening where the snail comes out is cover in white.
> 
> Oh and I found out that the bridge ornament is cracked. I have no idea how it happened, but I'll just use some of the solvent to fix it.
> 
> Meanwhile, I'm trying to find something perfect for a Betta cave.


Is he dead?


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

Nope, it's his trap door defense. Most snails have it apparently. At least, I don't think he's dead.


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## tithra (Dec 1, 2012)

MDubbs said:


> Nope, it's his trap door defense. Most snails have it apparently. At least, I don't think he's dead.


I questioned him being dead because you said he was white on the bottom  


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

Ah ok, lol.

I came home today to find the little one stuck on to the side of the filter. She went from being on the bridge ornament last night to the filter side at the top of the tank. I guess she's doing her job. I want more of these little snails.

I also discovered that my bridge ornament has cracked. Luckily I just bought aquarium sealant, so I'm going to secure the crack with it.

I'm also going to start working on the Betta cave.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

*Update*

I just did my first water change, but I think it might have been overdone. I hope it didn't kill any of the good bacteria that has been growing, but I'll test to find out for sure.

I did put in a new filter cartridge, but kept the old media (sponge) inside of the filter and will leave it in there for at least another month or so.

My bridge ornament that was in there started to crack, so I used some aquarium sealant to fix it. I did that on Thursday afternoon and I just put it back in today, Saturday.

The Nerite Snail seems to be doing well. It was missing for a day or so, but I figured he was under the substrate I have in there and sure enough it was revealed, while I was cleaning.

I also had to throw away another plant, because it was just mush in my hands, as I was trying to trim it.

My current project is working on a Betta cave made of a glass jar, some black sand, and a silk plant. I hope it comes out well, but thus far I'm not happy with the results, but I'm always unhappy at mid-point in art/projects and will wait to see the final result.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

I have to say that I'm really happy with the Nerite snail and want to get a couple more to help him out.

I'm also have been reading about at Otto Catfish, but I don't know how large they actually grow to and if they would be a good fit in the tank or with the Betta fish.


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## mott (Nov 23, 2006)

MDubbs said:


> I have to say that I'm really happy with the Nerite snail and want to get a couple more to help him out.
> 
> I'm also have been reading about at Otto Catfish, but I don't know how large they actually grow to and if they would be a good fit in the tank or with the Betta fish.


Ottos only get to be an inch or so big, if you decide to get some make sure you quarantine them for a good month before you introduce them, you have that 2.5g tank so it would serve as a good q tank.

How are the water parameters in the bookshelf tank? all cycled now I hope?


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

Thanks for answering Mott.

I just did a test last night, after a water change earlier in the day (my first in over a week).

Ammonia = 0 ppm
Nitrite = 0 ppm
Nitrate = 10 ppm

The snail is pretty active and the damaged fins on my Betta are back to normal. He's been very active and built himself a rather large bubble nest against the floating log he has in there.


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## mott (Nov 23, 2006)

MDubbs said:


> Thanks for answering Mott.
> 
> I just did a test last night, after a water change earlier in the day (my first in over a week).
> 
> ...


Great! Now it's time to enjoy it


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

Yea, but now I want to add a few things. I'm currently building a Betta cave out of a jar, sand, rocks, and silk plant.

I also had to get rid of the weird plant on the right side of my tank, but my Java Fern and Moss ball appear to be doing well.

I have no idea where to buy Oto catfish as I don't think either Pet Smart or Petico carry them.

I also think I want another nerite snail. The one I put in there has been very entertaining. I searched all day for it, but thought it had buried itself in the substrate.

It turns out he was crawling up and into the filter!


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

*Missing again*

My Nerite is once again gone MIA.

I've searched inside the filter and outside of the tank. I think he my be buried in the substrate again.

Also, I noticed well looking for him how dirty the substrate has gotten. Do I actually clean it once in awhile? I have a pump to get the water out and that usually picks up stuff, but by the time I would finish doing the entire thing, the water inside the tank would be long gone.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

*Update*

It's been awhile since I've updated. In that time a few things have happened.

1: Jor's fins have healed up nicely, except for the left side fin seems still to be a little shredded, but that might take awhile to heal, seen that he's constantly using it.

2: The plant on the right side of my aquarium has been pulled and tossed out. It looked fine, but when I went to trim it, the plant was falling apart, like a mush.

3: Jor's has been flaring up, when I turn the aquarium light on for a couple of hours. (usually in the afternoon around 4ish). I think he might be seeing his reflection, but I'm not sure.

4: The nerite snail has been perfect inside the tank. Jor totally ignores it and just goes about his business. I'm thinking about getting a couple of more.

My question is, does Algae grow without direct sunlight on the tank?

5: Created a brand new Betta cave out of a clean glass jar, some substrate, and silk plants. Used AQ sealant to hold it all together. 

I'm still waiting for him to actually go inside of it, but I'll be patient.

Thanks to everyone who has helped me along the way, especially Mott. You could have easily ignored my asking for help, because I know my tank isn't planted. I'm very grateful to you for all the help you've given me. :fish:


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

Another update, even though I don't know if anyone is actually interested in my thread, because my tank isn't really of the planted variety. I haven't tackled that yet.

The nerite snail has been working out so well and has been so entertaining, that I bought it two friends, who I have named "Bernie" and "Phyl".

I also decided to stick with Java ferns and bought two more for my tank, but the second one was doing so well that I was able to split it into two. So, I washed off all three and tied them to river rocks that were bought.

Very happy with how my tank is doing.


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## mott (Nov 23, 2006)

MDubbs said:


> Another update, even though I don't know if anyone is actually interested in my thread, because my tank isn't really of the planted variety. I haven't tackled that yet.
> 
> The nerite snail has been working out so well and has been so entertaining, that I bought it two friends, who I have named "Bernie" and "Phyl".
> 
> ...


Great to hear! To your question, algae will grow without direct sunlight, did you notice anything growing? 
Try not to keep lights on for more than 8 hours and you should be ok.
Stick with the java fern as it seems to be doing nicely for you, you could also tie some moss to a rock or driftwood, it's easy to grow and will look nice on hard scape.
Yes keep up on the substrate vaccume, even if you only do half of the bed per wc,its better than nothing.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

mott said:


> Great to hear! To your question, algae will grow without direct sunlight, did you notice anything growing?
> Try not to keep lights on for more than 8 hours and you should be ok.
> Stick with the java fern as it seems to be doing nicely for you, you could also tie some moss to a rock or driftwood, it's easy to grow and will look nice on hard scape.
> Yes keep up on the substrate vaccume, even if you only do half of the bed per wc,its better than nothing.


No, I haven't really noticed anything growing, but I'm assuming that it is, because the 1st snail has been all over the place cleaning.

Oh and the first Java Fern I got, that was recommended I tie to a river rock, is growing smaller leaves at this point.

I'll do that with the vac, but it's basically me sucking out the water. I'm going to assume that's ok, as long as a little water from the tank is remaining? I know that the gunk on the bottom is very important.


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## mott (Nov 23, 2006)

MDubbs said:


> No, I haven't really noticed anything growing, but I'm assuming that it is, because the 1st snail has been all over the place cleaning.
> 
> Oh and the first Java Fern I got, that was recommended I tie to a river rock, is growing smaller leaves at this point.
> 
> I'll do that with the vac, but it's basically me sucking out the water. I'm going to assume that's ok, as long as a little water from the tank is remaining? I know that the gunk on the bottom is very important.


Too much gunk on the bottom isn't good, it is a good idea to leave a little I suppose.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

I thought the gunk helped the tank. Should I do a full cleaning? Wouldn't that reset the whole cycled process?


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## mott (Nov 23, 2006)

BB lives everywhere, you'll never get all the gunk from the bottom of the tank so don't worry about a recycle.
I would vac half the substrate per wc if you're worried.
What filter do you have on the tank now?


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

I have the Tetra Whisper PF10.

I think that's a good idea, because I also wanted to put up a background on the tank, to reduce the reflections.

So, I'll vac today with a major water change.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

All done!


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## mott (Nov 23, 2006)

Is that Jor in the floating cave? Looking good!


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

No, the tank was empty. lol


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

Update: I discovered that one of the Nerite snails is just a shell and has nothing inside. Going to return it sometime this week.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

I haven't posted in here for awhile.

Jor (betta fish) and the three Nerite Snails are doing well.

I have let the aquatic cycle alone and have done small water changes every Saturday and everything has been fine, until recently.

I noticed that parts of the plant in the middle of my aquarium has holes in the leaves. I'm assuming that the snails are eating it, but I'm kind of stumped, because I have been putting in pieces of algae rounds every couple of days for them to feed on. 

I'm assuming that the algae rounds aren't enough for them to feed on and might have to up the quantity that I'm feeding them, but I wanted to know if this was a good idea or not.


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## mott (Nov 23, 2006)

Got any pics of the plants with holes? Holes and yellow leaves usually mean plants aren't getting enough nutrients, get some plant food ie API leaf zone, seachem flourish etc...with a low light tank you shouldn't need much.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

I'll put up photos later. No yellow leaves though.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

Update: My motherboard inside my computer fried and I built a new one from scratch.

My tank inhabitants are doing very well. I have four snails along with Jor my betta fish.

My java ferns are not doing great and the leaves are turning brown and dieing on me.

I haven't had a chance, but the next time I travel to the pet store I'll look at getting new ones to put in there. Not sure how to keep them from going on me.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

Update: Jor has swim bladder and a hole in his bottom fin.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

Update: Jor's swim bladder was cured after a couple of days of fasting.

Unfortunately, I think Ich has take ahold and I've been fighting it for weeks. After two weeks in a quarantine tank and meds, nothing has improved.

I'm just waiting for the end now.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

Attached a photo. This side doesn't look as bad, as the damage on the other side.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

Well, after fighting what I think turned out to be a fungus for the past couple of months, the end is near.

Jor is at the bottom of the quarantine tank, laying on his side, with labored breathing, and he's no longer trying to eat food.

I put him in fresh water and made it shallow enough for him to gulp air. 

I don't expect him to survive the night. I'll miss the little guy. 

I still have my main tank running, but not sure what to do with it.


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## MDubbs (Aug 6, 2013)

Another update, even though I'm pretty sure nobody reads this thread. 

However, it's been good for me to keep and running commentary on everything that has happened so far.

As I said in the previous entry, the end was indeed near, or so I thought. 

Jor lasted another week, before I decided to go and buy some clove oil to put him down gently, or at least that was my plan. 

The morning of my purchase I go to check on him and he was dead. I wish that he could have survived, but it wasn't meant to be.

I did end up getting a new fish, who I named "Parker". He's doing very well and is the complete opposite of Jor. He seems to be very shy, but at times he does come out of his shell.


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