# Miracle gro organic choice potting mix or MTS



## marcnc (Dec 13, 2011)

Since I have now bought topsoil to find out it not correct type to use for MTS and have already sifted it I am rather annoyed. It was cheap topsoil from home depot, nothing about peat, but I finally found info on it today.

With that being said I am annoyed, thinking just going with MGOCPM. Downside of going this route?
If I were to go with MTS I still run the risk of not getting the right soil, as it took me about 2 weeks to find stuff at a home depot. All the other stores have top soil with peat moss.


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## chunkychun (Apr 6, 2012)

Why don't you use mgops for the soil in your MTS?


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## marcnc (Dec 13, 2011)

chunkychun said:


> Why don't you use mgops for the soil in your MTS?


 
That what I was thinking as well. Was wondering if I could just follow same steps.


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## Monster Fish (Mar 15, 2011)

chunkychun said:


> Why don't you use mgops for the soil in your MTS?





marcnc said:


> That what I was thinking as well. Was wondering if I could just follow same steps.


Using MGOCPM is not advised since you need to sift out all the large organic particles (bark, sticks, twigs, etc). With all the sifting done, you aren't left with much soil to work with. When making MTS, you should use regular topsoil with no added fertilizers or peat.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=152027


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## marcnc (Dec 13, 2011)

At this point i have sifted the miracle gro was going to rinse it a few days at put in tank. Cannot find just soil around here and honest i am tired of looking. This is bring no enjoyment what so every to this hobby. I have 2 18 gal tote full of sifted miracle gro

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

Load the tank already LOL!
OK! so I'm bragging on organic rich dirt mixes if you look at my tank journals there is not a single failure or OMG! moment beyond my own misconceptions. NPT dirt works and MTS is a mess I don't care who makes it. 

1 MTS here and over a dozen MGOCPM tanks (can't say more) but have, it's in the journals :redface:


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## marcnc (Dec 13, 2011)

wkndracer said:


> Load the tank already LOL!
> OK! so I'm bragging on organic rich dirt mixes if you look at my tank journals there is not a single failure or OMG! moment beyond my own misconceptions. NPT dirt works and MTS is a mess I don't care who makes it.
> 
> 1 MTS here and over a dozen MGOCPM tanks (can't say more) but have, it's in the journals :redface:


I have read several of your posts. Your 110 looks very nice.

So I guess question is, did I make some mistakes with the MGOCPM?

I sifted it. Should I have left it alone, thinking maybe yes, plus my back hurts and I am cold from sitting in the garage for several nights.

I then filled big tote up with water and mixed it up and have just enough water above top of the MGOCPM, though last I looked was floating, and don't really want to go look at it again.

I hate to buy anymore, but wondering do I just need to start over, go buy 2 bags and dump it in?

Thanks
Very cool about those albino plecos & angels, do you sell them?


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

Drain off the water and allow it to evaporate to a muddy mess then add it, cap it and plant it. 

Did a damp start in a tank upgrade once and yup! posted a thread LOL
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=143352&highlight=

Screened the dirt once dry too.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1538355&postcount=18

dirt works so why work the dirt? :hihi:

and I do indeed ship fish because at 24 tanks wet I'm done adding more LMAO! (for now)


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## marcnc (Dec 13, 2011)

wkndracer said:


> Drain off the water and allow it to evaporate to a muddy mess then add it, cap it and plant it.
> 
> Did a damp start in a tank upgrade once and yup! posted a thread LOL
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=143352&highlight=
> ...


 
So the muddy mess mix, is that the better way to go with it all screened like I did

or 

Just dump the bag in the tank not sifted? I still have several unopened bags that why I ask.

Once this is setup, I don't plan to make any changes to tank or plants either.


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## gene4christ (Oct 25, 2008)

I sifted mine then got then socked it, then "I put it in the tank caped it and added water to just below the top of the gravel top and let it sit for 2 weeks just adding water to keep it wet . Thin "I flooded the tank and added plants, I did not have to do any water changes water cleared up in 2 days after a week I added fish . So far no problem with algae and fish are happy . :icon_mrgr Worked so far for me . :icon_bigg


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## marcnc (Dec 13, 2011)

gene4christ said:


> I sifted mine then got then socked it, then "I put it in the tank caped it and added water to just below the top of the gravel top and let it sit for 2 weeks just adding water to keep it wet . Thin "I flooded the tank and added plants, I did not have to do any water changes water cleared up in 2 days after a week I added fish . So far no problem with algae and fish are happy . :icon_mrgr Worked so far for me . :icon_bigg


 
THanks for info. So right now I sifted mine, and it in 2 totes soaking, but does not seem to sink to the bottom, and is muddy mess.

My options are to let it dry out for several days

or

Just put new bag of it I have direct in the tank.

I am thinking first option as I like to add some clay to it that I already have.


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

posting from work so hit a miss on catching posts LOL

Most methods work really well. Tannins leaching is a minor start issue that passes without to much trouble.

As long as the soil layer is kept >1" <2" and capped: 
Sand (or like product 1" approx.) *or*
Flourite, Eco Complete, oil dry etc. to about 1.5" *or*
Gravel to about 2" everything Ive read and done works with little drama.

I've added fish same day with a seeded filter or waited some time,,,,, 
Never killed any critters here.

Hope you consider doing a journal to help share knowledge and laughs along with joining the fraternity of dirt.

edit!!: reading the last post I suggest you review my stainless steel rack thread as I did additions on the lower tank and hope that helps with Q&A.


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## marcnc (Dec 13, 2011)

wkndracer said:


> posting from work so hit a miss on catching posts LOL
> 
> Most methods work really well. Tannins leaching is a minor start issue that passes without to much trouble.
> 
> ...


Same, and I am not being very productive. ha ha

I like having it sifted I think, plus I could return the extra since it not cheap.

Only problem is waiting for it to dry.

I need to start a journal for sure. Taking on too much at once, just finished my stand, need to get it stained and seal.

Thanks for your reply


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

welcome! take your time and understand that done right it lasts longer than most modern relationships (sad but true) don't rush things.

My first dirt tank turns 4yrs. old this year.


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## Cinbos (Dec 8, 2012)

Is laterite necessary with dirted tanks? I plant on using potash, and clay, along with this potting mix.


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## gene4christ (Oct 25, 2008)

After sifting it I just got it to the consistency of thick gravy and then put it in the tank . Think mud pie's . :^)


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## lochaber (Jan 23, 2012)

Cinbos said:


> Is laterite necessary with dirted tanks? I plant on using potash, and clay, along with this potting mix.



According to Walstad, the dirt alone will provide plenty of iron. I believe she also suspected one tank failure due to excessive iron in a tank that was both dirted and supplemented with laterite, but I'm not certain. (and I don't have the book to reference right now).


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## wootlaws (Feb 25, 2011)

I actually went with Miracle grow organic mix mixed with clay and capped it with large sized gravels. After months and months of water changes I still got a tank that's brown leeching from the dirt. I just planted heavily so we will see over time if the water will clear up once the plants take in the nutrients. Not sure at this point whether if this is good way of doing it still or not.

One lesson learned if you go this route is that you should add water slowly until it's fully soaked. Then you want to press it down so all the loose stuff doesn't come to the surface. You want to add water very very very very slowly and carefully. I used a cup to pour the water in so it doesn't hit the surface and cause it to go everywhere. You will want to cap it after that and very slowly add the remainder of the water. After you finish adding the water you will want to use a cup and remove the stuff that floats at the top.


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## PeterN1986 (Jun 15, 2011)

Just put a shopping bag on the water surface and pour water into the middle of it. This will prevent the dirt or substrate from being disturbed while pouring.


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## Cinbos (Dec 8, 2012)

PeterN1986 said:


> Just put a shopping bag on the water surface and pour water into the middle of it. This will prevent the dirt or substrate from being disturbed while pouring.


I have seen that from some of the green machine videos. He also uses newspaper as well.


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## Amy9 (Jul 4, 2012)

Fwiw I just threw in ~2 inches of MGOPM, capped it with 1 inch of eco complete, put a medium sized bowl at the bottom to keep it from getting disturbed when filling, filled it halfway, planted it, finished filling it up and netted out any large floating debris. I added fish the same day. No fish loss, no algae at all. It's been 4 months.


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## marcnc (Dec 13, 2011)

Amy9 said:


> Fwiw I just threw in ~2 inches of MGOPM, capped it with 1 inch of eco complete, put a medium sized bowl at the bottom to keep it from getting disturbed when filling, filled it halfway, planted it, finished filling it up and netted out any large floating debris. I added fish the same day. No fish loss, no algae at all. It's been 4 months.


That good to know. I think at this point I am going to take the long painful process of going with MTS. I have always wanted to setup a tank with MTS and I finally found place that sould me plain old soil. I bought 6 5 gallon buckets full yesterday, cost me 4 dollars. It in the soaking process now. We shall see how it goes.


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## bpb (Mar 8, 2011)

Finishing up my MTS. I used earthgro topsoil from Home Depot. It had quite a bit of sticks and bark, but after 4 soak and dries, and a good sifting with window screen. The consistency, color, and smell lead me to believe its ready. 80 # starting weight looks to have made just enough for a 1" layer in my 75 gal when it's all said and done. If I had to do it all over again, I'd have just used miracle grow and called it a day. This MTS making is such a pain in the neck, but the results I've seen from other users were just too convincing.


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## marcnc (Dec 13, 2011)

bpb said:


> Finishing up my MTS. I used earthgro topsoil from Home Depot. It had quite a bit of sticks and bark, but after 4 soak and dries, and a good sifting with window screen. The consistency, color, and smell lead me to believe its ready. 80 # starting weight looks to have made just enough for a 1" layer in my 75 gal when it's all said and done. If I had to do it all over again, I'd have just used miracle grow and called it a day. This MTS making is such a pain in the neck, but the results I've seen from other users were just too convincing.


Thanks for sharing. I have really been torn between the MTS and miracle gro, but now that I have found soil I need, I am going with the MTS.

How long did it take for you to complete? Mine on day 2 of first soak, I plan to empty it and put it on tarp to dry saturday then repeat 3 more times, then sift. We have rain the next few days, so I might just have to put it in my garage to dry, which might take longer.


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## bpb (Mar 8, 2011)

No prob! I had done this once before using dirt I dug from the yard, but our area is just sand and clay. I am now thinking it was the root tabs that contributed to my original success. 

This time, it took me 5 total soak and dry cycles. As far as days? Not sure. Couple weeks I guess. But we have had rain and freezes lately. I could have gotten it done in a week if this was summertime. This dirt was perfect. Had a good amount of sticks, but once those are sifted out I have a dark dark brown very dense muddy soup. Perfect. The first 3 wet stages stunk horribly like swamp water but now it just has a faint "outdoor earthy" smell if that makes sense. I soaked it in a tub using tank water, for a day or two at a time, and have been spreading it on a tarp to dry. 

I found muriate of potash at a local feed store, and bought a box of API laterite for the clay portion (expensive, but couldn't find the right potters clay locally, it'll work). We also don't have any dolomite, so I'm using well rinsed crushed coral from my reef tank, and some Epsom salt for the Ca and Mg. 

I had a local irrigation supply store order me a 50# bag of Turface natural pro league as my cap. By my calculations, with my rocks and driftwood, I should be able to have a 1" layer of MTS and about 2.5" of cap. Hopefully it works well! 

My tank has been running for years and is already stocked but just has play sand and mosses. Wanting to go with the overgrown dense jungle look with tons of stems and a big sword. Hoping to remove the tanks contents and get the change over done in one quick sitting.


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## Cinbos (Dec 8, 2012)

Marc,

So I went ahead and took the plunge and bought 1 bag of fluorite and 2 bags of floramax. Expensive, yes, but I got tired of jumping around and it wasn't worth the headache for me.

I also bought Amaco Red Natural Clay from Michael's. We'll see if that works. Also I am using aragonite crushed coral in place of the dolomite. I will sprinkle the grounded up coral and muriate of potash on the base and place the rinsed fluorite and floramax mixed with clay on the top and then cap it with cycled pool filter sand from my current tanks. A bit expensive but my plants should have plenty to eat! I will also run DIY Co2 and dose periodically with the dry ferts I have. When you get everything up and running let me know, we can judge each others tanks over time! I should have mine set up around next week. I have the clay sitting out to dry, and Sunday and Monday I will work on getting everything (aragonite, and floramax) rinsed.

Cheers!


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## marcnc (Dec 13, 2011)

Cinbos said:


> Marc,
> 
> So I went ahead and took the plunge and bought 1 bag of fluorite and 2 bags of floramax. Expensive, yes, but I got tired of jumping around and it wasn't worth the headache for me.
> 
> ...


 
Cool keep me updated. I am on first day of drying, and really not happy person right now. What a mess it has made of my yard. With working 12 hours a day, this is going to be a real pain in the butt.

I know it can be baked, which I am considering at this time, and already have the OK from the wife, she even offered to help.

What I don't know is do I bake it once, and then sift it, or do I still have to let it soak several times, and bake it again.

May cap is going to be flourite black sand. I need to figure out something soon, as my stand is going to be ready middle of the week to bring in, and I am getting tired of waiting.


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## bpb (Mar 8, 2011)

For those of you participating/following/in the process of making your MTS, what is your tanks Ph? My local water comes out at 8.2 and is strongly buffered. Lots of people say you can keep plants with that water chemistry but plenty of us locals have done it just fine. My issue is the dolomite addition. 

As mentioned I was going to use crushed coral and Epsom salt in the place of dolomite. But the more I read, it's primary purpose seems to be for ph elevation of the substrate, so it doesn't get too acidic. My water Ph is such though that it doesn't seem to be necessary for me to use it? Anyone with higher ph skip the dolomite addition?


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## marcnc (Dec 13, 2011)

I don't know to be honest. Only thing, I know is that the more I read the more confused I get.

I could not find dolomite either.


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## Cinbos (Dec 8, 2012)

marcnc said:


> I don't know to be honest. Only thing, I know is that the more I read the more confused I get.
> 
> I could not find dolomite either.


Aint that the truth?! I am using crushed coral in placed of dolomite for my substrate.


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

marcnc said:


> I don't know to be honest. Only thing, I know is that the more I read the more confused I get.
> 
> I could not find dolomite either.


Sorry to read this post but guess it's the way with forums.
I tinker with all things tanked never setting up two tanks exactly the same way. I also don't mind testing so I test. GH, KH, NO2, NH3/NH4, NO3, PO4, pH, TDS included. Parameter shifts, pictures and time lines in all my startup journals. MGOCPM is a staple in most of my tanks.

Personally I avoid water altering minerals (GH, KH) in the substrate.

hope something helps


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## darthmilmo (Feb 19, 2013)

I have had success with Miracle grow organic potting soil. It was my first tank and I didn't even bother washing it, lol. I capped one tank with one of the fancy planted gravel. I planted my second tank with plain sand from home depo. Both have worked fine. Oh, I do recommend adding malaysian trumpet snails as they help areate the soil and get rid of the nasty pockets of gas that develops with dirt. Alternatively, you can stick a chopstick several times to release the pockets of gas. 

I am planning on mixing my mgops with kitty litter (clay-based, non-scented) on my next dirted tank. I will cap this one out with black silica (used for sand-blasting). I'll let you know how that goes .


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## VJM (Feb 9, 2013)

I have my first planted tanks running for about six weeks with Miracle Gro. It was super easy ( pick out large chunks and proceed), and my plants are growing really well.

My only gripe has to do with user error. I am a super noob, and had to move things a couple times. My cap was about .5" and that just wasn't enough to stand up to my cackhanded attempts at gentle water changes, moving, and trimming. I broke through in a bunch of places, leading to some interesting problems and shameful solutions.


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