# AI Prime vs Fluval Nano for 60P - User Experience



## minorhero (Mar 28, 2019)

When you say programmable do you mean you want a sunrise sunset feature and color programming as well or do you just want multiple timing options such as what you get with a smart plug?


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

minorhero said:


> When you say programmable do you mean you want a sunrise sunset feature and color programming as well or do you just want multiple timing options such as what you get with a smart plug?


Ideally the whole shabang, dimming/color.


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## minorhero (Mar 28, 2019)

Asteroid said:


> minorhero said:
> 
> 
> > When you say programmable do you mean you want a sunrise sunset feature and color programming as well or do you just want multiple timing options such as what you get with a smart plug?
> ...


Gotcha, well every light we buy comes from China/overseas so if you found one that works I wouldn't hesitate based on the listed origin. Fluval is also made in China for instance.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

minorhero said:


> Gotcha, well every light we buy comes from China/overseas so if you found one that works I wouldn't hesitate based on the listed origin. Fluval is also made in China for instance.


Thanks, yeah not worried about where it's made, It just takes forever sometimes to get delivered and now with covid I, who knows. Have bought Chihiros overseas before for a small nano I had. Ideally I like the look of the full fixture like the twinstar as opposed to the AI on a 24", but the AI seems like it might do the trick.


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## minorhero (Mar 28, 2019)

Asteroid said:


> Thanks, yeah not worried about where it's made, It just takes forever sometimes to get delivered and now with covid I, who knows. Have bought Chihiros overseas before for a small nano I had. Ideally I like the look of the full fixture like the twinstar as opposed to the AI on a 24", but the AI seems like it might do the trick.


It likely will, what size tank is it? Of course the biggest drawback is price. AI Prime Freshwater cost around 200 dollars for one and just using one ideally lights a small tank.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

minorhero said:


> It likely will, what size tank is it? Of course the biggest drawback is price. AI Prime Freshwater cost around 200 dollars for one and just using one ideally lights a small tank.


It's a Mr. Aqua 60P so it's approx 24"x11x14 (lxwxh). I think it might suffer across the 24" if I want to do a carpet or something needed higher light. They claim 24" and a par of 86" (really) at 24" depth coverage but you see the dropoff.


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## minorhero (Mar 28, 2019)

Its not crazy to think that that you will need to raise this light 10" above the water's surface. So yea, using their numbers I don't see how you will be able to grow a carpet in the corners if they are 24" down. The solution is not to try, you can raise the back corners higher and plan a scape that doesn't use a carpet in the front corners (decorative sand, or rock etc). Or consider a non-pendant light since all of those are going to have similar problems.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Yeah, doesn't look like it will give me that blanketed spread I'm looking for. Also the $210 price tag doesn't include the rim or hanging gear so it's around $230. Hard to believe there are very few choices for programming non-pendent style that sits up high unless you diy it.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Asteroid said:


> Yeah, doesn't look like it will give me that blanketed spread I'm looking for. Also the $210 price tag doesn't include the rim or hanging gear so it's around $230. Hard to believe there are very few choices for programming non-pendent style that sits up high unless you diy it.


$200 compromise but you would need to check if "in stock" for the FW. Otherwise you need to wait for China shipment to SB then to you..
https://sbreeflights.com/sbox-freshwater-plant-lights/72-18-sbox-pro-timer-fresh-water-plant.html



https://www.amazon.com/PopBloom-Tur...ium-Lights/dp/B07YSHZDJR?ref_=ast_sto_dp&th=1

you can look for "popbloom" or "dsuny" LEds on the bay.. but prob. the same shipping thing though they may warehouse some here in the US.
Example:

https://www.amazon.com/PopBloom-Tur...ium-Lights/dp/B07YSHZDJR?ref_=ast_sto_dp&th=1


Kind of an oddball brand but they work..You would need an arm kit..or aquarium mounts I think..


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

jeffkrol said:


> $200 compromise but you would need to check if "in stock" for the FW. Otherwise you need to wait for China shipment to SB then to you..
> https://sbreeflights.com/sbox-freshwater-plant-lights/72-18-sbox-pro-timer-fresh-water-plant.html
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks, the popbloom could be possiblity, i'll need to find out if the spread is there. Probably Be more of a gamble buying that brand vs the Ai. Also has only 4 programs which is probably enough and no app. 

The sbox would probably look better with a hanging kit. With the legs it looks like its going to detach itself from the rim and attack me in the middle of the night, so that ones out :surprise:


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Asteroid said:


> Thanks, the popbloom could be possiblity, i'll need to find out if the spread is there. Probably Be more of a gamble buying that brand vs the Ai. Also has only 4 programs which is probably enough and no app.
> 
> The sbox would probably look better with a hanging kit. With the legs it looks like its going to detach itself from the rim and attack me in the middle of the night, so that ones out :surprise:



well they can customize ans their programming is customizable..Circled is where I threw out moonlight channel for sunrise channel..
Test photos and vid from Dsuny..










https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/10-lighting/1287611-light-recommendation-125g.html



http://www.qualiteitems.com/images/dsunycustom2019.mp4


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

I have 4 x AI Prime over 60x25x24 and they are awesome. The app took me some time to figure out though.

As an aside, I believed for years that more light = better plants. After messing around with a 60P for a year, I started to doubt that assertion.

Both tanks have Journals, if you want some extra entertainment.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

jeffkrol said:


> well they can customize ans their programming is customizable..Circled is where I threw out moonlight channel for sunrise channel..
> Test photos and vid from Dsuny..


Thanks, I'll have to look into those a little further, knowing me I'll probably play it safe and go with one of the major brands. 



OVT said:


> I have 4 x AI Prime over 60x25x24 and they are awesome. The app took me some time to figure out though.
> 
> As an aside, I believed for years that more light = better plants. After messing around with a 60P for a year, I started to doubt that assertion.
> 
> Both tanks have Journals, if you want some extra entertainment.


Thanks, that's good know. I'll have to look through your pages, I could use some entertaining. In regards to high light, that could be a very long conversation. I usually like the option of a having a very short bright burst. From the tanks I've done anyway it brings more plants into the fold, increases uptake without the adverse effects of algae, but everyone's MMV. With these lights I'm more concerned about the PAR across 24" and falling off to very low-light levels.


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## jaz419 (Jan 21, 2018)

I used an AI prime over my 60p for about a year. Was mounted about 22" above substrate and grew plants nicely... However the left and right edges of the tank were certainly low light. Overall, It works well and the programmability is hard to beat, but you're correct with assuming it's not gonna hit tht edges of the tank well. 

I moved to an aquatic life Halo deluxe, and that one was substantially more powerful and had a wider spread... But at it's regular price of $350 or so... It's definitely not cheap.

If you get a light that stretches end to end you won't have those issues. Twinstar, ADA aquasky, chihiros .... They all make nice non pendant lights that will give you end to end coverage

I currently use a chihiros, and I had to buy it on eBay. It was actually from chihiros though... Their eBay user name is the company name. Took 10 days to get, was as easy as any other eBay purchase, just fyi



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

jaz419 said:


> I used an AI prime over my 60p for about a year. Was mounted about 22" above substrate and grew plants nicely... However the left and right edges of the tank were certainly low light. Overall, It works well and the programmability is hard to beat, but you're correct with assuming it's not gonna hit tht edges of the tank well.
> 
> I moved to an aquatic life Halo deluxe, and that one was substantially more powerful and had a wider spread... But at it's regular price of $350 or so... It's definitely not cheap.
> 
> ...


''

Thanks for sharing your experience and confirming what i thought. I would have purchased Twinstar or Aquasky but got spoiled seeing my current tank for 18 hrs with a Finnex 24/7 and can't go back. i have a small Chihiros and it works really well, I just don't trust buying overseas at this point with covid and wondering when I'll get it.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Asteroid said:


> ''
> 
> Thanks for sharing your experience and confirming what i thought. I would have purchased Twinstar or Aquasky but got spoiled seeing my current tank for 18 hrs with a Finnex 24/7 and can't go back. i have a small Chihiros and it works really well, I just don't trust buying overseas at this point with covid and wondering when I'll get it.



Micmole or Aquamax..


https://www.amazon.com/MICMOL-Aquarium-Programmable-Spectrum-Saltwater/dp/B075Q86BL1?th=1




FW version:
* Aqua Air 600 Planted *




Item No.: AA-600 
Power: 48W 
Size: 560X126X11mm 
Weight: 2.0kg 
Packing:760x170x50mm 
Bracket Dimesions (length): 
Min tank: 585mm 
Max tank: 1085mm
 
* Planted LEDs *




56pcs White - CN 1 
40pcs White - CN 2 
16pcs Royal Blue - CN 2 
4pcs Blue - CN 3 
4pcs W White - CN 3 
4pcs UV - CN 3 
2pcs Red - CN 3 
2pcs Green - CN 3


Not the greatest spectrum. Will always be a bit on the cool side..
Est. is 20000K w/ all channels on full...
Dimming ch2 (like 1/2 power) will bring that down a bit

Much more expensive..
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07HP5PN5...jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

Cheap and fun and warmer..Would need at least 2 and possibly a TC-420(421) controller (would need to up the power supply probably)
est would be 5800K.. LISTED as 4000K..
https://www.amazon.com/ECRU-LED-Gro...ild=1&keywords=Relassy&qid=1587536286&sr=8-49


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## Ventchur (Apr 29, 2018)

IDK if they have the controllability you're looking for but if I had a 60p I would be looking at the ONF Flat One, Titan 1 by UNS and the Chihiros RGB Vivid 2.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Ventchur said:


> IDK if they have the controllability you're looking for but if I had a 60p I would be looking at the ONF Flat One, Titan 1 by UNS and the Chihiros RGB Vivid 2.


I guess 18" (46cm) is the most you can go with one AI. I could always scape around the light restrictions, but that's not gonna be fun. 

The ONF Flat One that you and @jeffkrol both mentioned would check all the boxes. Looks like $400 at this point is going to be the cost to do that other than the Chihiros Vivid. Only place I see those is on ebay and all from China, so could take 10 days or 100 considering COVID. Looks like that needs to be hung as well unless i'm mistaken.


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## jaz419 (Jan 21, 2018)

You can always try and snag a nice light on the buy/sell forums here. If you've got time, youd eventually be able to get 2 AI primes at a significant discount... Just a matter of waiting on people to sell theirs. 

You could look into 2 kessil A80 with the spectral controller... Looks like you can get each of those for about $105. I have no experience with them though... Even two of them might be underpowered for what you're going for. 

Those options that jeffkrol posted look great too. He really knows his stuff. 


I'm currently using a chihiros RGB vivid, and it would be hard to go to any other light at this time. It's extremely configurable, and easy to dial in a nice looking spectrum for just about any color temperature you prefer. Without a doubt, I'd personally be ok with ordering via eBay through their own seller... Yes it comes from China and I'd agree you might run into shipping issues due to covid... But knowing how much I like this light...I'd still go for it. Also... You CAN order a mount from them on eBay too... But the mount is pretty terrible and if you've got any DIY in you at all, I think I'd suggest making your own. I did, and it was relatively easy, I can provide pics if you're interested. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## sm1ke (Jun 30, 2016)

jaz419 said:


> Also... You CAN order a mount from them on eBay too... But the mount is pretty terrible and if you've got any DIY in you at all, I think I'd suggest making your own. I did, and it was relatively easy, I can provide pics if you're interested.


I just wanted to add that in addition to the DIY option, you may also have the option of getting mounts or risers 3D printed locally using files from thingiverse.com (like these risers, for example). Just need to find a local hobbyist willing to print for a decent price.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Thanks for the options all. Looking for a sleek look so my diy skills probably won't match. Think I'm going to go with either the chihiros RGB or Vivid or the ONF Flat One. The ONF Flat One checks all the boxes "out of the box", other than the price and maybe clearance. It only sits 2.75" above the rim. Not as high as Twinstar or Aquasky giving more room for emersed hardscape/plants and ease of maintenance. it's $380 at marine depot and Buceplant, but marinedepot has free shipping and I could use my paypal credit (6 months no interest.) 

The wife will never know. >


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

So I'm about to bite the bullet and get the ONF One Flat when i notice there is a *one flat* and a *one flat +*. From what I could tell the one flat has blue and white leds and the plus has yellow and white which I guess enhances the sunrise/sunset effect. I personally don't like warmer (more yellow) for the normal high-light period so i'm not sure if this will be affected. More decisions LOL 

One Flat

One Flat +


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Asteroid said:


> So I'm about to bite the bullet and get the ONF One Flat when i notice there is a *one flat* and a *one flat +*. From what I could tell the one flat has blue and white leds and the plus has yellow and white which I guess enhances the sunrise/sunset effect. I personally don't like warmer (more yellow) for the normal high-light period so i'm not sure if this will be affected. More decisions LOL
> 
> One Flat
> 
> One Flat +







> 3000K~6500K mixed by ONF ColorFull Led tech with warm white provides your freshwater aquarium with a sunrise and sunset atmosphere







> 6500-22000K white and blue light, full spectrum by exclusive ColorFull LED tech, protects your eyes, helps fish, coral reef, and plant in saltwater or freshwater tank to grow healthier and faster, mimics the natural underwater effect of sunlight and nightlight



Can't guarantee it but the 6500K produced by RGB diodes (as is apparently the arrangement) is usually much bluer than say a 6500k white diode.
Not sure how output is affected by each color temp either..


Tough call actually.. I'd like to split the difference but I guess that's why I'd prefer to build my own.. 


6500k "sunrise" isn't appealing to"me"....


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

jeffkrol said:


> Can't guarantee it but the 6500K produced by RGB diodes (as is apparently the arrangement) is usually much bluer than say a 6500k white diode.
> Not sure how output is affected by each color temp either..
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks, putting all the technical stuff aside, usually when you add a "+" it means it's in addition to everything else something would do, but I'm not sure in this case. I'll have to go through feedback on the lights, there's obviously a reason they did this. The price is the same.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Asteroid said:


> Thanks, putting all the technical stuff aside, usually when you add a "+" it means it's in addition to everything else something would do, but I'm not sure in this case. I'll have to go through feedback on the lights, there's obviously a reason they did this. The price is the same.



Psychology..
and culture.


Plus is DEF geared more to terrestrial plants.
Other is the typical "hybrid" like usable for both reef and fw.......


Whether one likes it or not I at least applaud the attempt..


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

jeffkrol said:


> Psychology..
> and culture.
> 
> 
> ...


And to make matters worse, on their nano line, they have a flat nano and flat nano plus and the difference appears to be APP control. 

Good catch on the terrestrial. They do have tha pic with emersed growth on that one and not on the other and I guess terrestrial likes warmer K.


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## Slushpup (Apr 12, 2020)

The newer AI Prime HD Freshwaters are 100 PAR at 24 inches. Thats the old light that someone talked about earlier in the post.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Slushpup said:


> The newer AI Prime HD Freshwaters are 100 PAR at 24 inches. Thats the old light that someone talked about earlier in the post.


Thanks for the info. I was more concerned about the coverage across 24" I don't think the PAR was a problem straight down.


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