# What IS dirt, and why don't we use it?



## ichthyogeek (Jul 9, 2014)

This^. Once we filter out the large organic particles like wood chips, then what really is dirt? It's a compilation of something, and it's super good for plants. So why don't we us it as is? Okay, maybe not in a nature aquarium where the water's supposed to be crystal clear, but why not in a blackwater tank where the water's supposed to be dark. Unless all rivers in the world have majority sand and gravel in their beds, wouldn't this be a better option? Obviously you could never vacuum it, but a thin layer that wouldn't go anaerobic with the help of burrowing fish like Corydoras or loaches, wouldn't that be good?


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## BruceF (Aug 5, 2011)

Lots of people use dirt.


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## Qwe (Jul 8, 2013)

Indeed, it's becoming more and more popular for people to use dirt in planted tanks. You should check out Diana Walstad's _Ecology of the Planted Aquarium_ if you're interested in the concept.


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## Mariostg (Sep 6, 2014)

I am one of those people that use dirt. In addition to the Walstad book, I would suggest the The Alternative Aquarium brought up by Hoppy here http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=915833&highlight=.
I bought the kindle version and I find it an intersting read. It gives me some ideas to think about for my 20Gal long that's is waiting to be setup.


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## Xiaozhuang (Feb 15, 2012)

ichthyogeek said:


> This^. Once we filter out the large organic particles like wood chips, then what really is dirt? It's a compilation of something, and it's super good for plants. So why don't we us it as is? Okay, maybe not in a nature aquarium where the water's supposed to be crystal clear, but why not in a blackwater tank where the water's supposed to be dark. Unless all rivers in the world have majority sand and gravel in their beds, wouldn't this be a better option? Obviously you could never vacuum it, but a thin layer that wouldn't go anaerobic with the help of burrowing fish like Corydoras or loaches, wouldn't that be good?


I use dirt, and my tanks are super clear. In addition, plants keep the substrate aerobic by channeling O2 down to the root zone, so you don't need burrowing snails or fish. You can also vacuum the surface regularly to remove detritus


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## mr.BIG (Jun 4, 2015)

im planning on using dirt in my next build(2nd tank). im just using plan old Organic Top Soil which i got from home depot for $2.20 per bag. (using aqua soil cost $17.50 per bag, which is only 1/6 of the soil i bought for $2.20. i also got a bag of red lava rocks which i will break up a little, or not at all and then mix it with the soil. and a bag of pool sand. all this substrate costed less then $20. from what i read online and video's i watched on youtube. these option are perfectly fine.


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## Veritas (Aug 9, 2013)

OP - do you mean ONLY dirt? or dirt capped by sand (what a large number of us around here do)?


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## ichthyogeek (Jul 9, 2014)

Only dirt, not sand capped dirt.


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## Mariostg (Sep 6, 2014)

ichthyogeek said:


> Only dirt, not sand capped dirt.


Some people do that. Many people say it's messy. I will see by myself, I am in the process of setting up a tank in this fashion. 

Barebone journal just started here http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=917434&highlight=


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## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

I've got a tank or 2 with top soil. Unstrained. Opened the bag and dumped it into the tank. No cap of any kind. No problems either.

I will say though as of late I am still using dirt but am putting it into terra cotta pots because I am constantly moving things around. I take the pot out of one tank and just put it in another as needs may be.


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## Blacktetra (Mar 19, 2015)

perhaps it would be helpful to point out the difference between two kinds of "topsoil". Some use *dirt*. Like, go in your back yard, pull out some carrots and onions for dinner, then scoop up some of the garden into a bucket, and toss it in the tank for your sub. (search youtube for "dustin dirt tank" you'll find a very avid fan of that method)
Some use "top soil" meaning stuff in bags from homedepot, lowes, etc. which can contain a myriad of things. Some of which are more desirable than others. Using a top soil that has lots of chicken manure mixed in, may not be so good for your tank right at setup (ammonia much?)

Regardless of which you mean, people use both, with and without caps. The caps are mostly for cleanliness.

If you buy from the store READ THE INGREDIENTS and do your research on them. Some contain peat, not a big deal if you dont mind the ph change, and tannins in the water. Some contain animal manure, which will at the very least contribute quite a bit of ammonia. And others contain virmiculite, those tiny white rock things. At the very least they are annoying when they collect at the top of your tank (they float). Also be aware of inorganic fertilizers which may not be good for your choice of fauna.


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## Mariostg (Sep 6, 2014)

Blacktetra said:


> perhaps it would be helpful to point out the difference between two kinds of "topsoil". Some use *dirt*. Like, go in your back yard, pull out some carrots and onions for dinner, then scoop up some of the garden into a bucket, and toss it in the tank for your sub. (search youtube for "dustin dirt tank" you'll find a very avid fan of that method)
> Some use "top soil" meaning stuff in bags from homedepot, lowes, etc. which can contain a myriad of things. Some of which are more desirable than others. Using a top soil that has lots of chicken manure mixed in, may not be so good for your tank right at setup (ammonia much?)
> 
> Regardless of which you mean, people use both, with and without caps. The caps are mostly for cleanliness.
> ...


Intrestingly enough, few days ago I dug almost 2 feet down in my backyeard to go get the superb clay which will be layed at the bottom of my next "dirt" tank. Then I will add some "soil". Haven't really decided yet what it's gonna be. Maybe pond soil.


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## Blacktetra (Mar 19, 2015)

be careful with the clay. It is great for some plants, no so much for others. It can be difficult for roots to penetrate, and dense enough that it will get anaerobic. Any ponds/rivers/lakes I've been in with clay and mud bottoms are regularly bubbling up gas. Not so sure which kind.

It's dense in minerals and other good things though, so it may work well for some plants.


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## KnownSyntax (Mar 15, 2014)

I think that not everyone has access to dirt in their backyard that is already nutrient rich, while others will have it all over the place (example is Arizona where the only dirt is just clay and settled down brown dust in reality). Even those that buy the bags in store can have some issues which another user already mentioned above.

Although dirt only tanks are becoming more popular they still have a long way to go, since dirt floats, not that many people want a dirt only substrate (either isn't appealing to the eyes, too messy when fish burrow in it, or that they like to move things around the dirt will pick up slightly easy). If anything we will see more and more dirted tanks that are capped with various types of substrate (plan sand, fluorite, aqua soil sand, etc.).


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

I routinely mix clay/peat with plain topsoil from Lowes and or Miracle grow organic choice (+ chicken manure) and cap it all with sand/gravel.
My substrates are often four or five inches deep to accommodate large root system's of plant's I use like Sword's/crypt's.
The clay(cat litter) and peat (pure sphagnum) I mix with the soil's, help hold nutrient's a fair bit longer than soil alone which may become exhausted from nutrient standpoint after eight month's to a year, depending on plant uptake and organic input.
I also add maybe 1/3 EI dosing of the dry mineral salt's once a week or two depending on what the plant's may be saying.
Most who have trouble with soil tank's are those who don't make substrate (soil) deep enough(soil peter's out too quickly),and or those who move plant's around frequently in my view.
The plant's do not respond well to being uprooted frequently, and disturbing the soil makes more of a mess than they anticipated on.


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## nbr1rodeoclown (Feb 6, 2015)

I've had success with aquasoil, tabs, plain gravel, etc. but dirt works the best for me. Most problems with dirt that scare people away can be managed. I honestly would encourage people to study up on walstad, but don't follow walstad. She's trying to replicate a natural system, and a stagnant one at that. do water changes. please.

1. Too much work to sift out wood from MG Organic
_buy better topsoil, black gold worm castings is money, very fine, no additives. Stay away from black gold potting soil though, it has little white yucca pieces that float._
2. Soil goes anaerobic
_use less. Soil only gets "used up" after several years. Thick soil layers are what goes anaerobic. 3/4" works great, plants will spread roots accordingly. Most natural river bottoms only have a thin layer of organic matter anyway, organic material just erodes away._
3. Dirty Water even with cap
_more water changes initially, it'll balance out after a month or so_
4. Dirty Water w/o cap.
_Have you ever looked in a pond? lots of people who use dirt and move plants around end up with a second layer of dirt above their cap. Dirt works best when you don't bug it too much._


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

"Dirt" is a complex material. 

It is made of 2 basic materials. 
A mineral fraction, and an organic fraction. 

Organic is in the real, original sense of 'coming from living matter'. Not some fancy sales pitch. 

The mineral fraction is divided by particle size into sand, silt and clay which have weathered down from some parent material. 
You can also consider the chemical aspect of the material. Depends on the parent material, what the chemical reactions of the sand silt and clay will be. If the original rock was a limestone, calcite or similar, then the substrate will create high GH, KH and pH in the water. 
If the parent rock was serpentine, excessive magnesium may enter the water. 
If the parent rock was quartz or granite then the sand silt and clay will highly likely be inert in that sense. 

Sand and silt are large particles and settle out of the water very quickly, and will pretty much stay down or else re-settle if they are disturbed. 

Clay is a much finer material. Some clay is so fine it will never settle out of the water by itself. Brownian motion will keep it up until it combines with something that helps it settle. This is the material that causes constant problems with cloudy water. 
This is a very good material to have in the garden or in the tank, though, for this reason: Clay particles are so small they have a small charge. This attracts certain minerals that the plants need. Plants can take the minerals from the clay particles. The clay particles act like fertilizer tablets in the substrate. The is called Cationic Exchange Capacity. 

Organic matter in the soil is from many sources, and then acted on by the microorganisms in the soil. 
Animal manure (from large animals to tiny bugs), plant material like fallen leaves, roots, and other materials. 
Some materials will still be coarse enough that you can tell what they were. These are the materials that you remove before adding a soil to the aquarium. 
Many materials are in small pieces, but still big enough to float. You could let these swell up with water then sink, or you could net them out. 
Finer and finer organic matter tends to stay down in the water, or combine with the clay particles. The finest organic matter is humus. It is about as broken down as organic matter can be. 
Many organic materials have acids like tannins, that can stain the water. This is the material that 'blackwater' fish seem to need. 

Soil in settled areas may or may not be the soil that was native to the area. Most of the time soil is not moved very far. However, soil even in nearby areas can be significantly different. When a builder moves dirt around to plant houses then perhaps moves other dirt back in to fill the yard with 'topsoil' you have no idea what you really have. 
Same concept about 'topsoil' in bags. Might be ANYthing in those bags. 

Here is a link to several simple tests that can help you figure out how much sand, silt, clay and organic matter is in the soil you are thinking about using in your aquariums. 
http://www.ext.colostate.edu/mg/gardennotes/214.html

When you buy a packaged potting soil (by any name) you are buying a blend of materials that are often sourced as by products from some other industry. Usually forestry/lumber- so softwood sawdust is often a large % of the ingredients. Rice hulls is another major component of some of these packaged materials. Animal manures are usually a smaller %, but can (as noted above) add too much ammonia to the tank to stock it right away. Other ingredients may stabilize the pH closer to neutral, or may be other fertilizers. 
Vermiculite is gold colored flaking material. It can float. It is more annoying (IMO) than perlite. It tends to stick to things. 
Perlite is a white, puffed material that floats. Yes, it is annoying.

I have made aquariums with several materials. 
~My own garden soil- Too high in colloidal clay- it does not settle. 
~Construction materials such as Top Sand, Masonry Sand, Dolomite Sand, Pool Filter Sand and others. 
~Commercial Aquarium soils. 
~Montmorillonite Clay products. 

Top sand is the most like soil that I want to use. It is a blend of soil sizes, mostly in the sand range, barely getting down to silt size particles. No organic matter- the aquarium inhabitants will add organic matter, which can work its way down into the substrate. I added some slow release fertilizer under the substrate. 
This tank is young, just set up for a couple of months. Plants are doing really well. Water is suitable for fish, when the right ones become available.


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