# DIY Led light for 110G, input from LED gurus wanted !



## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

How many channels do you want?

Multiple clusters consisting of a Vero 10 Decor 3000K surrounded by cool white LEDs would work nicely. Now if you want something with a bit more channels I would do the following:

Channel 1 - Vero 10 Decor 3000K 97CRI
Channel 2 - Vero 10 5000K 70CRI
Channel 3 - Luxeon Rebel ES Cyan x2
Channel 4 - Luxeon Rebel ES cool blue x2
Channel 5 - Luxeon Rebel ES green x2
Channel 6 - LEDgroupbuy 405nm and 430nm violet x1 of each


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## Fissure (Jun 29, 2014)

The Bluefish controller allows for 6 channels so that is what I am aiming for.

Originally i planned to use around 60 x Cree X-TE in four rows. Mixing Neutral and Cool whites.

You recommend another mix there, lots of colors. Is the spectrum from only whites not enough for a planted tank? Read something about a disco effect. Want to avoid that 

You recommend only one violet led and 2 of the colored ones. Wont that look weird on a 60" wide tank?

Edit:
Looked at the bridgelux vero leds you mentioned. The look much bigger? Are they to prefer over the Cree XTE? I see I will need aprox 10 XTEs to get the same lumen as the bridgelux ones running at 1000mA?


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

Fissure said:


> The Bluefish controller allows for 6 channels so that is what I am aiming for.
> 
> Originally i planned to use around 60 x Cree X-TE in four rows. Mixing Neutral and Cool whites.
> 
> ...


Disco disappears when you cluster. The LEDs above are per cluster. So basically you put the 2 Vero's in the center and surround them with the other LEDs. No optics needed since you are not trying to penetrate over 2ft. You have 6 channels so you might as well go full spectrum so that you can dial down whatever color you want and will also make it easier to bring out red pigments. You will be hitting every single photosynthetic peak with the above color combination.

As far as the violets go those are 2 different LEDs. A 405nm and a 430nm one. You got a 5ft tank so basically you want to do 4 clusters. Start at the end of the tank, go 12 inches and put a cluster, go another 12" and add another, and so on.


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## Fissure (Jun 29, 2014)

Ah now I get it! That sounds worth some consideration!

Should i still do two rows?

And what about the vero 13s ? Seem to be available in the same ratings but there I have the possibility of doubling the lumen if the need should arise in the future?


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

Fissure said:


> Ah now I get it! That sounds worth some consideration!
> 
> Should i still do two rows?
> 
> And what about the vero 13s ? Seem to be available in the same ratings but there I have the possibility of doubling the lumen if the need should arise in the future?


IMO way too strong. I have Vero 18's on my tank and they are 3ft from the substrate and I still have to dial them way down. I overestimated the power of the Vero's when I got them.

You could do 2 clusters front to back but if you do I would actually then do 3 clusters left to right every 15" and then do 2 rows 12" apart for a total of 6 clusters. No need to go higher than Vero 10 as that will be a ridiculous amount of light. At full power you are going to be pushing something like 36000 lumens with the Vero 10's. Also I would stick to 700ma meanwell LDDs for the whole thing.


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

Here is another 6 channel option based on the Radion that would also work and be cheaper per cluster.

Channel 1 - Bridgelux Vero 13 4000K 90CRI
Channel 2 - Luxeon ES Cool Blue x2
Channel 3 - Luxeon ES Cyan x2
Channel 4 - Luxeon ES Green x2
Channel 5 - Luxeon ES Deep Red x2
Channel 6 - LEDGroupBuy 405 and 430nm violet x1 of each

Ends up being $44 per cluster.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

> A heatsink that can rest on my tank frame (not suspended or on mounts). Light leakage above the tank must be none.
> Low noise (no fans if possible).


well that ends most of the cluster talk........ 

First off you would be best served (considering the above) w/ a linear array of medium density..

24" front to back will be a bit of a challenge and so will zero light leakage.
good thing optics will be unnecessary.
You will still need a "skirt" around the light though. You will have to be a few inches off the top..

Though I freely admit using cheap Chinese LED's I do recommend the 3w Phillips line from places like Steves LED's.

W/ 6 channels to play with I suggest a r,g,(b/violet),ww,cw array.
I'd shoot for 150W total of LEd's

@110degree beam spread and 3" off the water surface you will need to come close to the edge front and back by 4"

@4" off the water surface you can go about 6"

The point is any LEd "plate" needs to have the edge diode centers 4-6" from the rim front to back.

your heatsink would need to cover that center area (not as one piece but preferred.)
w/ diode spacing of around 3" on center.

So 18+/- a few diodes per row is preferred. At least at the edges.

Of course that gives you 18x6x3w=324W of light evenly spread over th entire tank.. 
Using Phillips 4000k as a baseline that means you would need 59V ps to run [email protected]
Using a more common Ps (and not wanting to multiply drivers ) 14LED's per string is more realistic and still fits the geometry within reason..
Shotgun approach (18x6 array w/ a 54x18 footprint:








Now to condense and streamline it a bit you can use the "wife approved" (eh) Makers heatsink.
A bit truncated front to back and not exactly cheap but that is your decision:
http://www.ledgroupbuy.com/makersled-designer-heatsink-kit-professional-grade-anodized/
Unfortunately they do not have an "ideal" 54" (and buying the big one to cut down is not fiscally wise) leaving you w/ a 48x narrower width than preferred.. 
Rumor has it there will be a sale..

This is just a random bit of basics..


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## Fissure (Jun 29, 2014)

Thanks again for your helpful posts. Trying to decide what the cluster should contain. Price is really not a problem so i rather go a bit over the top then regretting i did not later 

I am also wondering about the Vero leds, the kelvin rating is pretty low. Are the lights very yellowish? And when all the spectrum of the leds are on will it be tinting in a special color or do i just adjust that with the controller?

Using juwel day light tubes now
http://www.juwel-aquarium.de/out/pictures/master/product/gallery/detail/5/86354.png
Don't want any more yellow light than these gives, they are pretty spot on in that aspect.

Also having problem finding anyone selling the Veros :S

Thanks again for your help!

jeffkrol: Ah man now the confusion begins


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Fissure said:


> Thanks again for your helpful posts. Trying to decide what the cluster should contain. Price is really not a problem so i rather go a bit over the top then regretting i did not later
> 
> I am also wondering about the Vero leds, the kelvin rating is pretty low. Are the lights very yellowish? And when all the spectrum of the leds are on will it be tinting in a special color or do i just adjust that with the controller?
> 
> ...


It is somewhat simple to start.. 
Pendants and clusters work best high.. Strips and arrays work best low.
In general.

IF you want a light tight to the tank.. go array.
If you want shielded pendants above the tank go clusters.

as to heat sinks.. I prefer sq stock.. and no fans
http://www.ledsupply.com/led-heatsinks/aluminum-square-tube?gclid=CMjHtvXgqcACFSpp7Aod8SkAbA

hmm just noticed your talking bowfront.. complicates things a bit..
I wonder how well you can "bend" sq al stock.. ??


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

Unless he is going to be using a massive heatsink that's the entire size of the tank he cannot go passive. Wattage is wattage. Nowadays you can get PC fans that are inaudible unless you stand 3 inches next to it. Jeff's solution requires over 300 watts while the cluster one requires considerably less in the 200 range.

You are going to have to make some soft of housing to control light spillage no matter what you do.

You said money doesn't matter so get some Noctua's. Ambient noise is louder than these things.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...8004&cm_re=noctua_fans-_-35-608-004-_-Product

These are PWM controlled so you can hook them up to a channel on bluefish so they will only spin up at high speed when you are cranking the light.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...8026&cm_re=noctua_fans-_-35-608-026-_-Product


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## Fissure (Jun 29, 2014)

Yeah i have a bunch of noctuas lying around at home. I was planning on getting two large heatsinks made that run the length of the tank. The tank is in the living room and even though the fans don't make any mechanical noise moving air does. And a bunch of noctuas is not very pleasing to the eye to look at either.
Not sure what to do tbh.

Was sketching up the heatsinks and came up with this. Nothing advanced. This way i can also use the flaps I use now so i wont have much light leaking.

Downside is ofc that it will be close to the water surface. And 200W?? of heat is pretty much to expect to leave passively. Have no idea if the heatsinks is large enough to keep the LEDs under 85 degrees C?


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## O2surplus (Jan 31, 2010)

Is the Makers heat sink available in Sweden? They're available here in various lengths, so ordering one in a 60" length could be an option. They normally come equipped with 1 fan for every foot, so figure that into the cost. I've got a 72" with 6 fans over my tank and it's whisper quiet. Take a look at this- it may give you some good ideas.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=603658


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## Fissure (Jun 29, 2014)

Will check out your build m8!


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## Fissure (Jun 29, 2014)

Looked at your thread and that looks awesome. That is something I think could work for me as well. Wish i had the same skills in the electronics department as you 
I think i will go with Veros like gus said. Looks more solid. Now to the problem of finding a way to hook it up to a 6 ch controller.
The meanwell psus and drivers are just so meh! Is there any other brand that does more powerful stuff?

Have contacted ledsupply.com to get a price for 2 lengths at 1490mm each. Question is if i really need two lengths? I saw your tank o2surplus and you only have one and that tank is much bigger than mine. Do you get bad backlight on the fish with that setup? The x-ray effect on the fish is not that nice


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## O2surplus (Jan 31, 2010)

Fissure said:


> Looked at your thread and that looks awesome. That is something I think could work for me as well. Wish i had the same skills in the electronics department as you
> I think i will go with Veros like gus said. Looks more solid. Now to the problem of finding a way to hook it up to a 6 ch controller.
> The meanwell psus and drivers are just so meh! Is there any other brand that does more powerful stuff?
> 
> Have contacted ledsupply.com to get a price for 2 lengths at 1490mm each. Question is if i really need two lengths? I saw your tank o2surplus and you only have one and that tank is much bigger than mine. Do you get bad backlight on the fish with that setup? The x-ray effect on the fish is not that nice



I've never noticed an "X-ray effect" with my lighting system, but I do have a black back on my tank, so that may be why? I don't think you'll need more than 1 length of heat sink over your tank. Two would be overkill. My "one" barely gets over room temp and that's with 12 Vero 18's.

"More powerful stuff"? Lol- That's why I built my own. If you want something similar, just send me a PM. :smile:


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

^

O2 makes some sick electronics. The majority of my electronics on my build are from him .

You are using a bluefish so all you need is a power supply and meanwell LDD drivers. Running anything over 1A will be too much light. Did you decide on which Vero build you are going with? The Vero 13 neutral white with colored around it or dual Vero 10? You have a nice controller in the form of the bluefish so I would go all out and do 6 channels of color with the Vero 13 format of clusters.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Maybe you should just get some DSunY modules and hack the controller..
Cheaper, easier and no fans..
and if you don't like the color they are easy enough to de-solder and replace..

http://www.dsuny.com.cn/En/Product_...D=727023&CorpProductClass1_ID=46931&id=922346


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## Fissure (Jun 29, 2014)

Yet again thanks for all input and help.
Have not decided if to get one or two lengths of the makers led heatsinks. One row might well be enough but i am worried if it is placed in the tank center the background plants will creep forwards in the tank and the same with the foreground plants? Maybe wont be an issue though. As for the LEDs I really like the look of the Veros, and if i can get away with using those instead of hundreds of smaller LEDs its a no-brainer.

I think that i will overshoot with the leds and get Vero 13s or 18s (this way i can still use them when upgrading to a larger tank in the future  ) And also use the smaller RGB leds gus64 mentioned. 

Getting light above in the bowfront will probably complicate things to much. But if I have strong enough LEDs I don't think it will be an issue or i might do some custom solution there, not sure. 

Drawed up 3 different variants




























So first one draws insanely much power at 700-1000mA and will be somewhat expensive. But like you said running it at those currents is way to high anyway? I can always dial it down and the big plus side for that one is that i get no blind spots (have several pieces of wood that goes up to the surface). If I go with this one I will probably go with Vero and maybe skip the one in the center?

Second one less power of course but still pretty high. Some blind spots will be present in the right front of the tank and the right back. No big areas though. And for this one maybe Vero 13 instead?

Third one is down on reasonable levels i guess but will have some issues with blind spots on that one.


The arm in the middle. Thought I just might do some simple arm in aluminum that I will attach to the larger heatsink. And mount two cylindrical heatsinks on the Veros and cut two holes in the plastic lid so they pop out?


So what do you guys think? Am I totally crazy? :S


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

Holy crap that is a lot of light! You will have to power down the Vero 18's to super low current to not have algae farm.

Vero 18 is way way way too much power. Downsize to at least Vero 13 and put 2 of each colored LED per cluster except for the violets.

You can also simplify the Vero by doing 4000K Vero 13 90CRI instead of two vero 18's. The cool blue will take care of making the light look cooler in the 6000K region.

The last mockup looks best IMO but downsize the Vero to a single unit or dual smaller ones. The problem with Vero 13 and below is that the 5600K 90CRI bin only exists in 18 and above. Whatever you do though make sure you go at least 2 3W LEDs per color to get good penetration and coverage.


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## Fissure (Jun 29, 2014)

Maybe should go with single Vero 10s or 13s @ 5000K will be missing a 97CRI vero then but not sure that will even be noticable? But yeah sure the last one is ofc the most reasonable one. But I am still worried about blind spots :/


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Fissure said:


> Yet again thanks for all input and help.
> Have not decided if to get one or two lengths of the makers led heatsinks.
> 
> 
> ...


@$50/ft your talking $500 JUST for a heat sink.. I fold..


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## Fissure (Jun 29, 2014)

Yeah it will be a bit pricey 
Will look how bad it will be in the dark spots tomorrow and then decide if i should get two or not.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Fissure said:


> Yeah it will be a bit pricey
> Will look how bad it will be in the dark spots tomorrow and then decide if i should get two or not.


Why green LEd's are redundant in one chart..
I KNOW it is a personal choice, but the "space" can be used for more targeted spectral component.
Chart is self explanatory ex. all those curves are various K temp whites..
also why cyan is necessary..see big hole..
IF you want a green, consider lime..










lime










If it was me I'd also consider the Veros on separate channels..and combine the cyan w/ green (or skip green obviously)
rb/deep red/cyan make a "white"...See OCW at Ledgroupbuy.


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## O2surplus (Jan 31, 2010)

Fissure said:


> Yeah it will be a bit pricey
> Will look how bad it will be in the dark spots tomorrow and then decide if i should get two or not.



LOL- There's no way you need that much power. My 225 measures 72"L X 30"W X 24"T and I get crazy PAR and even coverage at the substrate with less than 300 watts. You could get similar results with less than 200. I recommend using only one heat sink and just center it over the mid-line of the tank for even coverage. Start your build by buying a small amount of your preferred Leds and wire them up to see firsthand how well they perform. After seeing what they can _or _can't do, adjust your preferences accordingly. Going "All in" at the design stage can be an expensive recipe for failure. Spending a small amount to experiment first, will help prevent that.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

O2surplus said:


> LOL- There's no way you need that much power. My 225 measures 72"L X 30"W X 24"T and I get crazy PAR and even coverage at the substrate with less than 300 watts. You could get similar results with less than 200. I recommend using only one heat sink and just center it over the mid-line of the tank for even coverage. Start your build by buying a small amount of your preferred Leds and wire them up to see firsthand how well they perform. After seeing what they can _or _can't do, adjust your preferences accordingly. Going "All in" at the design stage can be an expensive recipe for failure. Spending a small amount to experiment first, will help prevent that.


got to agree there.. as a crude starting point 1-2W of LED's per gallon is a fair rule of thumb..though not everyone agrees w/ this rough approximation, but those w/ out PAR meters need at least a starting point.. 
Going 5-8wpg is extreme overkill...and once you buy a Li-Cor.. then you can quantify it..


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## Fissure (Jun 29, 2014)

Fiiiiiiiiine I will try to dial it down a bit  Contacted a british aluminum company that makes hatsinks and they were willing to help. Gonna answer him tomorrow, he needed to know the led specs etc and he would help me calculate how big of a heatsink i would need to go passive. Will return here when i got cost estimates from him. 
Btw what is a li-cor ?
Cheers!


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

Fissure said:


> Fiiiiiiiiine I will try to dial it down a bit  Contacted a british aluminum company that makes hatsinks and they were willing to help. Gonna answer him tomorrow, he needed to know the led specs etc and he would help me calculate how big of a heatsink i would need to go passive. Will return here when i got cost estimates from him.
> Btw what is a li-cor ?
> Cheers!


A Li-Cor is a PAR meter. It is considerably more accurate than the Apogee units which people buy in the hobby in the 450nm and below region. Has a huge price tag compared to the Apogee as well.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Fissure said:


> Btw what is a li-cor ?
> Cheers!


http://www.licor.com/env/products/light/quantum_sensors/


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## Fissure (Jun 29, 2014)

Ok so i ordered 8 Vero 13s 5000k 90 CRI and 4 Vero 18s 3000K 97CRi

Im not sure I will use all of them but there was free shipping above a certain ammount so I just ordered some extra ones. More bang for the buck.
Anyways I am aware i will have to drive them on a much lower current, but this should not be an issue I hope?
One thought occurred though and that is this.

Lets say for the Vero leds if i drive a Vero 10 at lets say 500mA and a Vero 18 at 500mA and they give out approx. the same lumen at that current will the penetration be the same for both leds? Or will the penetration be better on the LED being driven closer to it full potential? Probably a pretty retarded question...

Anyways when it comes to the colored leds I checked around a bit and have not yet decided.

What I have read before is that green and yellow are the least necessary color ranges for plant photosynthesis? So would i not be better of skipping the greens or at least only have one of those leds in each group? The yellows I am assuming the Veros will be giving lots of anyway?

Jeffkrol you mentioned the Ocean Coral White leds from ledgroupbuy. Those look pretty good to me? Could I not go with those and Violet 405 and 435 for a full spectrum? I am assuming the reds in the OCW should be enough?

What do you guys think about the Cyan/green LEDs? I am going for a cool light with a bit of warmth in there. Want reds in plants to pop since I have a bunch of red plants. At the same time I want to go for a spectrum that fills all the plants needs (as close as we can get).

What do you think about this per cluster
1 x Vero (either 5000k or 3000k one) -Channel 1
2 x Cool Blue -Channel 2
2 x Deep Red -Channel 3
2 x Cyan - Channel 4
1 x Lime - Channel 5
1 x Violet 405nm&435nm - Channel 6

Or this
1 x Vero (either 5000k or 3000k one) - Channel 1
2 x Cool Blue - Channel 2
1 x Deep Red - Channel 3
1 x Red - Channel 3
2 x Cyan - Channel 4
1 x Lime - Channel 5
1 x Violet 405nm&435nm - Channel 6

Man there are so many options, easy to get lost and even harder to make a final decision 

Edit: Continued to read some more and got myself more unsure. Reading up most places say the red and cool blue are to be used in small amounts? And looking at the wavelength on the Vero 13 and 18s using 5000k ones and a couple of 3000K ones seem to be covering the blue and green/yellow/red parts of the spectrum pretty well. Only missing Violets and a bit on the darker reds. Is there really any point in adding any more yellow,green and blue to the spectrum. Or atleast keep it to a minimum? 

Thanks for your time guys!


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

first LED's generally get more "efficient" the lower the current. Tradeoff for more "lumens per watt" is you use less watts thus less lumens..
Secondly, it follows that the lower you drive them the less heat you have to worry about.
Example:









As to colors there are two competing factors. Colors plants "like" most and colors you like most..

White LEDs are pretty rich in both of these but have definite "misses" in the spectrum. A known problem for those particularly picky about color fidelity.
Deep red , cyan and "purple" being the major gaps..


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Shades of green (say blue/green to yellow) are used to enhance the "brightness" to your eyes (human sensitivity factor) and to highlight different shades of greens in plant pigments.
Which is important to some... All green is not green so to speak.

The other colors are for fish enhancing colors..

the only inherent problem w/ high quantities of "colors" is color shadows and toning. Which are mitigated by "flooding" w/ high visual "whites".. and correct choice of optics and spacing..

In multi channel/ multi control fixtures the "quantity" is not really an issue.
"Daylight"goes from high red/orange/yellow to bright nitrogen blue.. 









Easy enough to imitate w/ 2 "colors" of white and selective dimming, concentrating your power at say "your" ideal viewing temp.
A 12000k white w/ equal power to a 2000k white will, at full power be equiv. to a 7000k color temp.. All k values from 12000k to 2000k will be achievable w/ selective dimming of each one of these channels..
The "colors" are just to fill the, as mentioned.. gaps and add a bit of visual punch..The gaps being important both to plants on a physiological basis (arguable) and to a visual aspect for yourself..and the fish.
OR to add "fun".. 

There is a bit of control one can achieve on plant stature/form by selective use of color. A high blue/white light will cause many plants to "stunt" in height growth while a high red/white will cause many plants to bolt or increase gaps between nodes but it is really a minor point.


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## Fissure (Jun 29, 2014)

So I should go with green as well then? Just not sure what small leds to get. What do you think about the two different setups I have in post #30?


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Fissure said:


> So I should go with green as well then? Just not sure what small leds to get. What do you think about the two different setups I have in post #30?



Orig:
1 x Vero (either 5000k or 3000k one) -Channel 1
2 x Cool Blue -Channel 2
2 x Deep Red -Channel 3
2 x Cyan - Channel 4
1 x Lime - Channel 5
1 x Violet 405nm&435nm - Channel 6


How "I" think of it:
1 x Vero (either 5000k or 3000k one) -Channel 1
2 x Royal blue plus 2x 6500k or greater white -Channel 2
4 x Deep Red -Channel 3
4 x Cyan - Channel 4

Totally optional:

1 x Lime - Channel 5
1 x Violet 405nm&435nm - Channel 6

NO accounting for spacing just percents..


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

You want lime to make the tank look brighter and give it that MH look. Also greens will have a real nice pop to them.

4x deep red per cluster is too much red. You got a 97CRI warm white in the Vero that has lot of red already. Cool blue mixes better than royal blue. Sticking to the original 6 channel version will give you a ton of control over color mix that Jeff's version doesn't come close to offering.

Channel 1: Vero 3000K and 5000K (gives a color of ~4000K)
Channel 2: 2x cool blue
Channel 3: 2x deep red
Channel 4: 2x Cyan
Channel 5: 2x Lime
Channel 6: 1x violet 405nm and 435nm


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## Fissure (Jun 29, 2014)

So you guys are sure 20 leds for each color is necessary for penetration and coverage? 

Feel like there is gonna be a crazy amount of leds


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

Fissure said:


> So you guys are sure 20 leds for each color is necessary for penetration and coverage?
> 
> Feel like there is gonna be a crazy amount of leds


You don't need that many but you have a 6 channel controller so it's nice to actually use it if you can. You also do not need that many colored LEDs per cluster. 2x of each color is all you need. Also royal blue mixes like crap with white and makes the light too cool with barely pushing any power through it which is why it's better to stick with cool blue.

Like I originally said this would be a good cluster with a ton of color customization.

Channel 1 - Vero 3000K and 5000K
Channel 2 - 2x cool blue
Channel 3 - 2x deep red
Channel 4 - 2x cyan
Channel 5 - 2x lime
Channel 6 - 1x 405/430nm violet


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## Fissure (Jun 29, 2014)

Ah you mean 2 of each TOTAL? I assumed you meant per cluster.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

gus6464 said:


> Also royal blue mixes like crap with white and makes the light too cool with barely pushing any power through it which is why it's better to stick with cool blue.


I think your being a bit hard on RB..
18 to 9 w rb/10000k white Almost purple looking.. 









15/12 w 6500k/rb...











LOOK at all that green light in those whites..


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## Fissure (Jun 29, 2014)

Ok so now everything is ordered. Guys at birmingham aluminum were helpful. And will be getting a 1490x250 black anodized heatsink. Should with this number of leds keep the bigger ones a tj 75 degrees going passive. Just waiting for O2Surplus to reply, hope he still can help me out. Or maybe my PM was so retarded i scared him away 

Only thing im worried about is that I ordered a 48V 500 Watt 10.4A PSU and now I got unsure it will be enough. But I think so right?

Thanks for all your help. And if O2Surplus cant or don't want to help out here do you guys have any good ideas how i should drive this party?


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

Fissure said:


> Ah you mean 2 of each TOTAL? I assumed you meant per cluster.


No I meant 2 LEDs of each color per cluster.


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## Fissure (Jun 29, 2014)

Ah dang it. I will be running 10 veros and if there is supposed to be 2 of each color per cluster i will be needing 20 of each except for the violets. Guess i will have to order some more then :/


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

Fissure said:


> Ah dang it. I will be running 10 veros and if there is supposed to be 2 of each color per cluster i will be needing 20 of each except for the violets. Guess i will have to order some more then :/


You are running 10 clusters? I thought you were only doing 5 clusters? Since you got a Vero 3000K and 5000K you put a set of those per cluster so basically the cluster looks like this:

1x Vero 3000K
1x Vero 5000K
2x cool blue
2x deep red
2x lime
2x deep red
1x 405nm violet
1x 430nm violet


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## robsworld78 (Aug 14, 2014)

How long do you think till you have it up and running?


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## Fissure (Jun 29, 2014)

Not sure. All the orders have shipped so the ones from the US should arrive in a week or so. The heatsink is not shipped yet and I have not solved the driver issue yet. Still hoping that O2surplus wanna help but still no reply from him. Guess he is busy


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## robsworld78 (Aug 14, 2014)

Damm, that's no good, I needed to see. 

I just got a 125g tank and want to make a light to but was hoping to see yours in action first. What is the final cluster combination you're going with?

I was also looking at that bluefish controller, looks cool but in the end I may just have a simple controller for sunrise/sunset.

I'm also thinking of using only vero led's but its so very hard to decide as you know.


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## Fissure (Jun 29, 2014)

I have not decided yet tbh. Will have to make the final decision when building it. Yeah I know it is hard, even with good advice and most of the stuff on the way I still feel a bit unsure.


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## jedimasterben (Aug 21, 2011)

Damn, I've missed quite a bit in my absence, gonna have to go over this build later. If you're still going with the Vero 18 for your whites, all i've gotta say is DAYUM. lol


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## jedimasterben (Aug 21, 2011)

Ok, now that I've had a better look at the thread 

In this picture, I've got four Vero 10 4000K 90CRI chips running at 500mA. The LEDs are in a single strip across the tank, no optics, evenly spaced, and are 26" above the bottom of the tank, and the PAR readings are taken approximately where the numbers are across the center of the tank.











At 500mA they're putting out around 1230 lumens at 85C.


You ordered 5000K 90CRI Vero 13 and 3000K Vero 18 Decors. The Vero 18 Decor at 500mA should put out at least 1100 lumens, and the Vero 13 5000K should put out around 1650 lumens. So having one of each, you'll be putting in around 2800 lumens of white per cluster. That's over double what I've got, so if I were to put that same amount of light into my clusters above, PAR would increase ~2.2x. Since mine are only ~26" off the bottom, raising that to ~36" (so a foot above your tank), and giving 2.2x more light, that would put PAR in the center to around 78.

Now, that's only for one strip. You'll have two, so expect PAR where the two overlap to be higher.

After crunching the numbers, it looks about right. The rest of the LEDs you will be adding will increase PAR by a bit from that. That should be more than enough light. 

To that, you'll definitely want some lime, definitely want blue, definitely want cyan. Violet and red/deep red would be optional, but keep in mind that out of all colors, red is by far the most difficult to blend properly, and if you choose to use them, I would suggest getting them from Steve's LEDs on their anti-disco stars.


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## Fissure (Jun 29, 2014)

Thanks for the input. The final decision has been made and everything is on its way. The aluminum heatsink went to production today. O2surplus is gonna build me theee of his wonderful drivers. Those will be a while though since he has to order the pcbs and then do the work on them. That and he seem to be a heavy worker like myself. Just really happy he is willing to lend me some of his time.

Anyway, i skipped the vero 13s. There will be 6 clusters with one vero 18 5600K 90CRI in each. Plus two cool blue, cyan, lime and deep red led. There will also be one 435nm violet and one 405nm violet in each cluster. In addition to this there will be 4 vero 18 3000K 97 CRI spread across the length of the tank. Those will not have any color leds next to them though. I will have to test the results ofc before permanently attaching the leds. 

2 power supplys will run the show. 1 x 500 watt 10.4 amp 48 volt supply and another 350 watt 7.4 amp 48 volt supply. The 7.4 amp supply will supply all the color leds and the 10.4 amp will handle the veros. This is a bit over the top since i wont be needing to drive the leds very hard. But with using two supplys i am primarily hoping to acheive a lower stress on the PSUs and hopefully they will run a bit cooler


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## jedimasterben (Aug 21, 2011)

What current are you going to run everything at?


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## Fissure (Jun 29, 2014)

Im not sure yet. Will have to wait to decide that until i get everything up and running. O2surplus drivers have four different resistors on them (if you have not seen them). Simple 2 pin bridge to change them between the four preset values, fing brilliant


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## Fissure (Jun 29, 2014)

Got all my leds now and the psus and cables and all that stuff. Still waiting for the heatsink though. Bought a simple metal toolbox to have as a project box but it was to small and ended up looking like crap. 

Ordered this instead.
http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=395
Gonna strip the inside and mod it to take the psus and the driver boards when they are finished. Also gonna plus the backside with the cover from an old cpu psu. Should look a bit tidier with that.

Also gonna use two 37 pin d-sub contacts and a 34 conductor cable. Each conductor have a cross sectional area of 0.75 mm2 wich is between awg 18-19 hopefulle the cable can handle the current for all the leds. Cant wait to get started with the building 

Bump:


jedimasterben said:


> Ok, now that I've had a better look at the thread
> 
> In this picture, I've got four Vero 10 4000K 90CRI chips running at 500mA. The LEDs are in a single strip across the tank, no optics, evenly spaced, and are 26" above the bottom of the tank, and the PAR readings are taken approximately where the numbers are across the center of the tank.
> 
> ...


Damn i totally missed your reply! Unfortunately i already ordered and recieved the leds. Did not even notice the antidisco stars at stevesleds. :,( dont want a disco effect. Maybe could try to sorround the red led in each cluster with the other colors or am I screwed now?


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

Fissure said:


> Got all my leds now and the psus and cables and all that stuff. Still waiting for the heatsink though. Bought a simple metal toolbox to have as a project box but it was to small and ended up looking like crap.
> 
> Ordered this instead.
> http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=395
> ...


If you put all the LEDs on a tight cluster you will be fine.


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## Fissure (Jun 29, 2014)

Dang, started mounting some of the electronics in the box I bought yesterday. Hooked up both the power supplys and plugged it in. SMACK and the RCD was triggered, and the half second before some nice sparks flew from the 500 Watt power supply. Unplugged both power supplies and tested them separately. The mean well 350 watt is working nicely but the 500 watt one I bought from LEDGroupBuy still triggered the RCD. Unfortunately i removed two of the pins in the chassi of the PSU before i tested it, did this becuase they were sticking out and thus i could net get the power supply as close to the perforated area of my box. So since I most likely would never get it replaced and it is somewhat of a hassle to send it back to the US i decided to open it up and check it out.
Turns out there was a big fat blob of solder spilled on one of the caps and down on the top side of the PCB shorting the cap and some resistors. Removed it but still did not work, most likely some components have been damaged. Turned it over and inspected the solderside of the board and was welcomed by some of the worst soldering I have ever seen. One large cap had no solder, and on two places side by side lanes was shorted by big solderblobs. Yet another lane was shorted by spatter. Rectified the mistakes but still no go, got pissed and it went in the trashcan.
Noted it was an unbranded power supply and it was on the "cheap" side considering its output. Still disappointed in LedGroupBuy that they market such poorly manufactured products. At least very happy there was no LEDs plugged in.


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## robsworld78 (Aug 14, 2014)

How's that light coming along? Its been a while now do you have everything yet?


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## O2surplus (Jan 31, 2010)

robsworld78 said:


> How's that light coming along? Its been a while now do you have everything yet?


He started a build thread- http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=731121


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