# Discus fin rot or not? - Please help



## Sympley (Apr 18, 2006)

Hello,

On Sunday, I have purchased 3 small(1.5inch) discus from a LFS, Once I put them in my tank, they seemed pretty stressed. 2 of them even had white salt/sugar looking grain things by their back fins. I was dreading the worst, ich. However next day there was less, and now there is no white salt/sugar looking grain things on them any more. However one of the discus(the most active one) has his back fin disintergrating. Do you guys think this is fin rot??? I read everywhere I could and there is so much different opinions out there. The discus is doing fine, ie it is very energetic, eats like there is no tomorrow, chases the other discus and other fish. I only had these for 3 days now and it seems that the fin is not getting any better, but worst. It looks more and more jagged. The second discus has a litle bit of a white spot on the tail but it is not getting bigger, at least not yet. Whould would you guys recommed. These weren't cheap, but most of all I don't want these to die on me. At teh current time otehr fish are doing very well (knock on wood). I have guppies, pladys, neon tetras, rasporas, and medium pleco. Besides my tank being attacked my algae that is slowly spreading everything seems OK. The plants are growing, ammonia/nitites are at 0, nitrates are at 10 to 15, pH at 6.8.

Pleses suggest something, should I wait another few days, or run to LFS and get fin rot meds.


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## Marilyn1998 (Mar 8, 2006)

What size is your tank? Discus, especially smaller than 4" are VERY susceptible to disease. For discus that small you need a temp of 84-86 degrees. You need to feed them 4-6 times a day and do a daily water change of 40-50%. It is VERY hard to properly care for discus that small even in a bare bottom tank. To have plants, it is almost impossible.
That said, did you quarantine the discus? Any diseases that your other fish may have, or could be carrying and not showing any signs can pass to your discus and kill them.
I doubt it is fin rot. Do not medicate yet. First off I suggest you put them in their own tank and add 2 TBL salt (non-iodized) per 10 gallons of water. Salt in this tank will prolbasbly harm your plants. Your other tank parameters look good. I wouldnt medicate until the fin looked like it was getting affected down to the skin. Fins otherwise will heal quite quickly. Netting the fish and getting along in the new environment could have caused the damage. IF he is chasing other fish, they may even be nipping at him. HE could be trying to figure out his place in the bunch.
Watch out for that pleco. Some can get quite large, and often they develop a taste for the slime that is naturally on the sides of the discus. As the discus gets larger, it can develop a taste for your guppies and platys. 
The salt looking spots, if on the tail are normal for alot of discus. If you keep them at the proper temp, ich cant survive, so you dont need to do anything about that.
HTH
Marilyn


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## Sympley (Apr 18, 2006)

Thank you Marilyn for the quick response. I have to say that I hate my LFS, they told me my conditions are perfect for discus, and that I have nothing to worry about with the small ones. Just for the record my temp is between 81 to 83, so right there I am already below what is recommended. I just cranked up the temperature to make them more comfortable. 
Other than that my tank parameters are:
-90gallons
-water changes once a week, unless levels get rainsed then I do a water change right away.
-regulary adding ferts for plants

Unfortunately I don't have another small aquarium where I could keep the discus, so I am stuck with this setup. I also feed them only 3 times a day, I simply can't be there to feed them 6 times. I will keep watching and hopefully they will get better. Behaviour wise they seem to be doing good(knock on wood, don't want to ginx myself).
Once again thank you for you help, I will stop freaking out for a day, and will see how they are doing tomorrow.


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## Marilyn1998 (Mar 8, 2006)

Watch your plants and make sure they can take the higher temp. 84 is the lowest I would go. Babies like to eat frozen brine shrimp or mysis shrimp, frozen blood worms and tetra color bits. Also good for them is OSI flakes. three times a day is good, can you feed them once more at night even if it is only an hour apart? That will help in their growth alot. You will need to water change more often. If you feed with those plastic worm feeders that hang on the glass with a suction cup, it will help keep the bottom cleaner, too.
Your parameters and your PH are good for discus. You can keep the PH even as high as 7.8 (if you are buffering just for them). Stability is the most important thing.
Sounds like you are really trying and wanting to do your best. That is VERY good! 
As far as the fins, just let it be and after a brief period of seeing who is the boss of the tank, I bet you see the fins repairing themselves.

Any questions just post!

HTH and good luck.


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## Sympley (Apr 18, 2006)

I got the question about the worm feeder. Would I be able to put the frozen worms in there? Also all the fish in the aquarium are going crazy for the blood worms, I have to feed the discus from my fingers otherwise they would not be able to get any to eat. If I put the worm feeder in, is there any way to control it so only the discus eat it? I am getting rid of my guppies, and plady because they are way to fast and at this point annoying. I had a guy come in to pick these up but we could not fish them out of the tank. It's going to be tricky to get them out.


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## DiabloCanine (Aug 26, 2005)

You need to get your Discus to eat from your hand, like this:
http://media.putfile.com/MOV0153658
Keep in mind Frozen Bloodworms have very little protein, use them as a treat not the grow out staple. Look for food that is 50-60% protein. Cyclop-eeze wafers, Dainichi pellets, Pure Spirulina Flakes, Tetra Color Bits, etc. Find a high protein flake food variety they like and feed them well....DC



Sympley said:


> I got the question about the worm feeder. Would I be able to put the frozen worms in there? Also all the fish in the aquarium are going crazy for the blood worms, I have to feed the discus from my fingers otherwise they would not be able to get any to eat. If I put the worm feeder in, is there any way to control it so only the discus eat it? I am getting rid of my guppies, and plady because they are way to fast and at this point annoying. I had a guy come in to pick these up but we could not fish them out of the tank. It's going to be tricky to get them out.


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## Marilyn1998 (Mar 8, 2006)

DC is right about the worms. High protein flake and tetra color bits are the main staple here.

As far as the feeder..... it is great for all the frozen foods. I use two, one on each side. That way the fish all get a chance at the food. You can also feed from your fingers.

I have had fish take flake and colorbits from the feeder too.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4450&N=2004+112972

ANd just a tidbit. Discus do much better in groups of 6 or more. You may want to get another 3 soon.


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## Brilliant (Apr 11, 2006)

Oh my God...I have soo much to say!

First off, I wouldnt have purchased Discus in that condition. Second they are probably like that because the lfs cant care for them properly, like my lfs. Third, its probably not fin rot or ich...honestly I dont know what it is....poor water quality...I can assure you that with the proper care the fins will grow back, white spots should go away. As far as the planted tank and young Discus thing goes...I am using RO/DI for my source water....I am having trouble with my plants but not my Discus. All of them are eating good, few of them are growing really fast. Two have paired up I put some video of them spawning on my website, you need a quicktime or alternate player to view it.

I would not use any meds unless you know 100% what your dealing with, I would try fresh water and perfect conditions. On the other hand if its serious....internal parasites...or something then your fish are dying and need help ASAP.

Discus should be kept in groups of 6 or more. In my case I have two in a tank because they are a breeding pair. I would recommend a 90 gallon tank or bigger for a group of Discus. Being that I have all of those things its easy for me to recommend them. 

My Discus also eat out of my hand like mentioned and yours should too after about three days or so. I feed mine beefheart and freeze dried bloodworms and sallys cichlid delight...there is also live brine. I let any frozen or pellet food sit in a glass of tank water and feed with my finger tips. My tanks are Discus-centric which means all of the tank mates are Discus friendly....maybe not egg friendly but Discus friendly for sure...yours should be the same way... Discus deserve it. Make sure your tank mates are compatible and there is enough room, 10 gallons per Discus....6 Discus per group...is a safe rule. The stress from the other fish in the tank will not help your Discus get better. The high temperatures are also recommended mine were at like 89F degress when they arrived then I settled down to 84-86F. I was shocked at the high temps that were recommended but both breeders I purchased from said the same thing.

You need more plants or need to change water more often to lower nitrates...I am speaking for Discus not plants here.


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## Sympley (Apr 18, 2006)

*Please help*

An update on my Discus....I need help.

Ok here what I have done since Sunday when I bought first 3 small discus. 
-Increased the temperature to 83 - 84 F
-On wednesday I bought 3 more discus, bigger than my original one. 

Her is more observations:
From the first batch of the 3 discus
- The one that had the biggest fin rot looking back fin has now white sugar/salt looking grains showing on his body (3 to 4 spots) and a big white approx 5mm big circle of skin color loss, it does not look like outside loss, more like internal kind of a loss.
-One looks still pretty healthy, no fin rot, no white spots, no white grain things.
-third is starting to have his back fin rotting away a bit. It was a bit yesterday, more today.
-All are looking pretty skiny, their stomachs look either bloaded, or they are so skinny. 

From the second batch of 3 bigger discus:

All 3 are still scared, it has been 24 hours, they do not want to eat, one of them nibbled at something but not much. One is sitting in one spot and not moving much. One is in my cave, at 45 degrees angle, can say if he has any white dots, or spots, because he is in a cave. 

The question that I have is if I should start medicating? I bought 2 kinds of medication, one for ich, and one for fin rot. All my other fish are doing perfectly fine.

Please help, suggest something.


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## DiabloCanine (Aug 26, 2005)

Crank the heat up to 90 and dose salt as suggested before.....DC


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## Marilyn1998 (Mar 8, 2006)

What do the eyes of the discus look like? the sick one--- are they dark, cloudy? bright and clear? dark and cloudy can be nematodes.

The circular white mark... could it be the pleco feeding on it? Or does it look more like a whitewashed spot, loss of color there? Maybe an increase in slime?

Pics would help. Diablo is a good one to listen to. My only concern is if it is an internal bacterial infection... the high heat will speed it up.

I wouldnt really medicate yet. The higher temps will raise the metabolism of the fish and make them hungry. IT isnt unheard of for discus to take up to 2 weeks to feel comfortable. Also, they can go weeks without eating.

How is their feces? Dark and thick?? Stringy, white??

I would dose with Melafix or Tea Tree Oil if you feel you MUST do something. This is a natural treatment and will not affect the plants, the healthy fish, or the biofilter. Follow the instructions on the bottle. Treating in the 90G will take a large bottle.

Pics would help if you can get them.

HTH


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## Sympley (Apr 18, 2006)

I did check my water the parameters are still very good, 0/0/5. Cranking up my water temp to 86. 
I also wanted to post some pictures to get your opinions but I can not attach the pictures.


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## Sympley (Apr 18, 2006)

The eyes look clear nice and sharp distinction between all the layers and so on. 
The pleco is a interesting suggestion. I have not seen them doing it during the day, but at night who knows. I seen the discus nip a the plecos fins maybe he is returning the favour at night. The plecos seem to be more active at night, I am not sure how can I check it. 

I checked on them after the lights were out for a while. The one that was hiding in the cave is out, and swimming around, slowly but better then sitting in the cave sideways tiping over. I hope it is a good sign, and that I am not just grasping at the straws.
I will have to see how they are doing tomorrow after my water change. From what I have read here some people notice improvement right after, knock on wood.
The tree oil, and melafix, are these bought at a fish store?


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## DiabloCanine (Aug 26, 2005)

I bet the Discus is the one returning the favor. What kind of plec is it? You should get it out of there. Discus won't bother plecs unless they have a reason. That plec might be latching on in the dark sucking the slime coat off and startling your Discus. If the plec sucked some slime coating off salt will help. If that plec got your Discus he is gonna get hammered when the Discus is all better. Troubleshoot per Marilyn1998s post. Eyes, poop, and color are good indicators of health. You need to identify what is wrong before you treat. Don't know what kind of plec u have but the ones in my sig are Discus safe....DC


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## Marilyn1998 (Mar 8, 2006)

Clear good eyes are a good sign.
Get rid of that pleco. THey are noturnal and discus are easy prey for them.
You can get Melafix at any LFS, also online. 
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=11269 or
http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/product.xml?product_id=28157&category_id=2233&pcid1=


I had a fish that stayed in the cave ALOT. I realized that was for two reasons. He was getting picked on a bit and also, I think he didnt like the bright lights. Once he got about 3" he stopped and now is a very happy camper swimming around the tank. You could set your clock by him at night. He went in the cave at 8:00 and didint come out until morning. His problem was also a pleco.

Everything is sounding good so far. You should see some changes soon.


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## Georgiadawgger (Apr 23, 2004)

First of all, consider this experience a bold slap in the face. Its a good thing that Marilyn and DC have taken the time to help you through this, however consider this a learning experience. 

Did you do enough research before investing in the discus? They aren't the easiest fish to raise...especially with a planted tank too. There are many compromises you need to make when keeping discus with plants and you can't even take care of discus yet. 

Second, what compelled you to purhase three additional discus after the first batch are showing signs of sickness and disease? 

Feeding them will take time...they will come around, but they will be shy and scared for a good week or two. 

Barebottom is the easiest way to go to start off with young ones. However it can be done. 

Get the temperature up higher to 86-90...no less IMO if they're showing signs of disease and not eating...the temp will help speed up any parasite's life cycle and enable any medications to adequately treat them. The temp will also speed up the fishes metabolism...thus they'll eventually get hungry. 

IMO, Tetra color bits is the best "staple food" and Ocean Nutrition formula 1 is a good high protein flake. Worms, brine shrimp with spirulina, and mysis are also good choices too. Beef heart isn't needed...and not really recommended if you're going to keep plants in the tank too, but can be done. 

If you can't feed them 4-6 times a day...if you can afford the fish, you can afford an autofeeder. A good quality one like the Eheim is recommended. You may also want to to a twice weekly water change. Keep the nitrates between 5-15...try not to go higher. The fish and plants will be fine in that range. 

Good luck.


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## fishnfst1 (Mar 18, 2006)

Are your fish doing any better? You might want to invest in a quarantine tank or two... All you need is the tank. heater and sponge filter.. I keep the heat at 90 degrees for 7-10 days. If the fish are doing well and eating and seem energetic I will slowly lower the temp to 84-86 but no lower than 82 over a 3-4 day span... I do daily water changes on the QT tank as well... 2tbs salt for every ten gallons and just wait... If the fish still are healthy after 3-4 weeks in the qt tank I will add one fish from my established tank and one fish from my qt tank to a seperate tank.. I will then wait an additional week to check for any other disease... One fish may have been exposed to a disease and recovered so is now immune but the other fish may have no such immunities.. If everything is Ok with the two fish in a tank after a week or two I will start adding the qt tank to my established tank one fish every 3-5 days... All the while monitoring for sickness.... 

Keep an eye on that light spot on that fish... It can be many things.. I've had fish with Tb and thats what it looked like when it started... I've also read but never experienced it first hand that the light patch can be cancer or some kind of defect in the color controlling tissue.. Sometimes it just goes away...

Hope your fish are doing better.. Keep us posted...


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## Brilliant (Apr 11, 2006)

Georgiadawgger said:


> First of all, consider this experience a bold slap in the face. Its a good thing that Marilyn and DC have taken the time to help you through this, however consider this a learning experience.
> 
> Did you do enough research before investing in the discus? They aren't the easiest fish to raise...especially with a planted tank too. There are many compromises you need to make when keeping discus with plants and you can't even take care of discus yet.
> 
> ...



Can you list the ingredients of tetra color bits?

I would like to know why beefheart is not recommended and certainly why you think it isnt needed.


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## Georgiadawgger (Apr 23, 2004)

Brilliant said:


> Can you list the ingredients of tetra color bits?
> 
> I would like to know why beefheart is not recommended and certainly why you think it isnt needed.


You can look it up...TCB is pretty much the standard staple that a lot of discus hobbiests and breeders feed their fish. Beef heart is fine...in fact the best for growing out juvenilles, but IME it can be too messy for a heavily planted tank. Its not needed as long as you're providing a good protein source, as well as a variety of foods.


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## Brilliant (Apr 11, 2006)

Georgiadawgger said:


> You can look it up...TCB is pretty much the standard staple that a lot of discus hobbiests and breeders feed their fish. Beef heart is fine...in fact the best for growing out juvenilles, but IME it can be too messy for a heavily planted tank. Its not needed as long as you're providing a good protein source, as well as a variety of foods.



I tried...I wonder why I cant find the ingredients. I thought you would know being that your recommending it. Have you fed Discus beefheart in a planted tank?


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## Georgiadawgger (Apr 23, 2004)

Brilliant said:


> I tried...I wonder why I cant find the ingredients. I thought you would know being that your recommending it. Have you fed Discus beefheart in a planted tank?


Yes, and it makes a horrible mess. Tried 2 methods: 1) a homemade recipe I found from the folks over at Simply Discus, and 2) the store-bought cubes. The fish are just too slow at eating so the current from my filters would sweep chunks of beef into the plants where they could rot. I had enough of that so I resorted to TCB, ON Formula 1, blood worms, brine and mysis shrimp. 

Here's the basic ingredients from the can of TCB: fish meal, wheat germ, shrimp meal, all sorts of other "meals"...but the key is the analysis: 47.5% protein, 6.5% fat, 2% fiber, 1.5% phosphorus (water changes are needed to keep this under control). Tetra doesn't seem to be keen on listing what the "meals" consist of...but the fish love them, and they grow from eating it!! 

Here's ON Formula 1: salmon, plankton, squid, krill, kelp, herring, brine shrimp, fish meals, and vitamins. 54.5% protein, 11.8% fat, 0.5% fiber.


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## 66 north (Oct 28, 2004)

TCB contains red 3 which is banned for human consumption as far as I know because it is a carcinogen. Red 3 is also an estrogen mimic which may be part of the reason (but not all) that it works well for colouring up fish. Just something to think about.

I personally make a beefheart mix for my planted discus tank. The great thing I like about that is I know what's in it, and yes there are crumbs flying around but I have a pretty good clean-up crew of cories and MTS in the gravel.


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## Brilliant (Apr 11, 2006)

Georgiadawgger said:


> Yes, and it makes a horrible mess. Tried 2 methods: 1) a homemade recipe I found from the folks over at Simply Discus, and 2) the store-bought cubes. The fish are just too slow at eating so the current from my filters would sweep chunks of beef into the plants where they could rot. I had enough of that so I resorted to TCB, ON Formula 1, blood worms, brine and mysis shrimp.
> 
> Here's the basic ingredients from the can of TCB: fish meal, wheat germ, shrimp meal, all sorts of other "meals"...but the key is the analysis: 47.5% protein, 6.5% fat, 2% fiber, 1.5% phosphorus (water changes are needed to keep this under control). Tetra doesn't seem to be keen on listing what the "meals" consist of...but the fish love them, and they grow from eating it!!
> 
> Here's ON Formula 1: salmon, plankton, squid, krill, kelp, herring, brine shrimp, fish meals, and vitamins. 54.5% protein, 11.8% fat, 0.5% fiber.


OK cool!
I have a planted tank and I feed beefheart just fine. I read what people said about Discus and honestly I would think the fish didnt know its own !!! from a hole in the ground. But thankfully the reports about them are dead wrong. My Discus are agressive when they eat. I dont have them mixed with a bunch of other fish that they have to compete for food. They eat right out of my fingertips...in the middle of the water column and off the ground out of the dwarf sword I have or out of the gravel.

Sounds like tetra bits are like grocery store dog/cat food. I like that forumla 1 tho, its sounds good...heck its making me hungry. I like feeding my fish beefheart because I know what it is, I used to be afraid of using it....because it does look messy...but it really isnt if you try to be neat about it. I could see an auto feeder and beefheart causing problems. I put it in a glass of tank water to melt it then feed with fingers. Maybe if I let it float in the tank it could get messy, I target feed. Everywhere that Ive read it says to use beefheart thats why I freaked out sorry. :angel:


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## Brilliant (Apr 11, 2006)

66 north said:


> TCB contains red 3 which is banned for human consumption as far as I know because it is a carcinogen. Red 3 is also an estrogen mimic which may be part of the reason (but not all) that it works well for colouring up fish. Just something to think about.
> 
> I personally make a beefheart mix for my planted discus tank. The great thing I like about that is I know what's in it, and yes there are crumbs flying around but I have a pretty good clean-up crew of cories and MTS in the gravel.



Hi, maybe that explains the red stains it leaves on tanks. I wonder how good that residue is for us or the fish.

I have some Apistos that clean up any leftovers.

I think beefheart does wonders for colors. My juvie red turqs are beefheart raised and they colored very well. I am looking at spiderman now....my red turq daddy and I am very impresssed with his colors. Momma looks really colorful too along with the rest of the batch. My website has pictures.


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## Georgiadawgger (Apr 23, 2004)

Brilliant said:


> Hi, maybe that explains the red stains it leaves on tanks. I wonder how good that residue is for us or the fish.
> 
> I have some Apistos that clean up any leftovers.
> 
> I think beefheart does wonders for colors. My juvie red turqs are beefheart raised and they colored very well. I am looking at spiderman now....my red turq daddy and I am very impresssed with his colors. Momma looks really colorful too along with the rest of the batch. My website has pictures.


Don't get me wrong...if I could get mine to eat it like pigs I would...it is the best! 

Oh, and the color additive in TCB...just don't eat it yourself!


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## kotoeloncat (Apr 12, 2006)

not enough description on the sick discus

what strain are they ? strains that originated from the wild ones (non-pigeon blood strain) or are they pigeon blood strains ?

how are their body color ? dark ? normal ? for non pigeon blood strains, their body turn dark when the discus isnt feeling happy, a black discus is usually a discus near heaven's door

you said fish looked skinny but stomach look bloated, possibly internal parasite
did you presoak the flake food you give ? if not it can cause intestinal blockages when the flakes swell with water in their stomach

rotting fins is usually poor water quality, when keeping discus, water changes is key, more hardcore people change their discus water twice a day (i do mine twice a week)

are they still eating ? if they are its a good sign and treatement is easier

look for discus poop, describe it, solid like a sausage ? whiteish mucus ? brown and frayed ? redish solid ? ideal should be solid brown like a sausage, white mucus is usually hexamita (dreaded discus plague), brown and frayed is no problem but its yellow light, redish poop is usually internal parasite

count average breathing rate, 80 breath per min is considered high in older, but ok in younger discus

whats your temperature ? and kH/gH ? 

temporarily for the time being like Georgiadawgger said, increase temp to 86-90 while you get some of these observations

I understand your situation, was there once upon a time, had other people help me with mine in the past, so I want to help you through, hopefully your discus will recover


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## Brilliant (Apr 11, 2006)

Georgiadawgger said:


> Don't get me wrong...if I could get mine to eat it like pigs I would...it is the best!
> 
> Oh, and the color additive in TCB...just don't eat it yourself!


Sorry I personally taste test all my fish food :hihi: 

Dont get me wrong. I didnt try to prove you wrong its just that not recommending beefheart for Discus is like not recommending light for plants in my book. I guess I am kinda of sore because the breeder I purchased my other Discus from used that crap, feeding them at first wasnt as easy because of that. Ive only seen tetra bits recomended on another forum....it seemed to spread there like a plague. I am guessing its popular because it fits in an autofeeder.

Maybe Discus and planted tanks dont go together because people are afraid to feed fish in a planted tank. I didnt really get why you would recommend not using beefheart because mine gets eaten almost before it hits the substrate. There are a few morsels that are a snack later on for the fish that stumbles upon em. Ive also seen my ABN snacking on leftovers. I have rarely seen something that needs to be vac'd.

Hopefully these sick Discus are better by now. Its really helpful when you start out with healthy fish. Ive been through this also unfortunately and the only thing I can say is buy healthy fish from the start.


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## Georgiadawgger (Apr 23, 2004)

Brilliant said:


> Hopefully these sick Discus are better by now. Its really helpful when you start out with healthy fish. Ive been through this also unfortunately and the only thing I can say is buy healthy fish from the start.



I suppose we did a pretty good job at hijacking this thread! I'm wondering if Sympley has been reading up on how to actually take care of them...


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## Sympley (Apr 18, 2006)

The 3 small discus that I have are wild discus. One of these started having fin rot over night since I introduced them to my tank. It has also started developing a white spot on the body by the rear fin. The white spot was growing in size from 3mm to about 5mm. Originally it looked like a internal thing. However now (1 week later) it looks as if it has opened and the white stuff is now external. He was actually chasing a fish and some of it fell off him. He looks very active, the most active out of all my discus. He eats the most, and is not as easly scared as the other ones. The eyes are clear and alert. 

Second of the small discus has started showing fin rot about 3 days ago. Other than that it eats the least because the bigger ones are chasing him away. However he seems to forging for food on the bottom and seems to be eating some of the discus pellets that I feed them as well. He is not as active as the first one but stills swims freely all over the tank. Comes up for food and all. 

Third of the small discus has no signs of any disease, fins are perfectly fine, swims all over the tank, is able to hold his owm while eating and so on.

The other 3 discus that I have are breed discus. These are considerably bigger then the small ones that I have. 
The problems with these are as follows:
First one, I believe this one is a pigeon discus. This one is the boldest out of the 3 breed discus, but still wil not eat out my hand, however he eats the pellets, and any blood worm that are left over. No signs of disease, swims around tank, but is easly scared.

The second one is snakeskin discus, that one has no signs of disease, but is very scared. Originaly when introduced to the tank he spend 2 days hiding in a cave. Now he is out a bit, looking for food. He is only able to get the discus pellets, if any are left for him. The plecos, and other breed discus are found of these pellets. 

The third is some sort of San Marino discus (please excuse the spelling). This one is very shy, and just today he started swimming around a bit. Yesterday he developed what seems to be a white spot on the body by the rear fin. Yesterday it was 2mm today it is bigger. From my observation and my memory it looks identical to what my wild discus had/has b ut in the beggining stages. 

Some more general observations:
-Today all 6 of them seemed more mobile, they were out around swimming, the bigger ones more alert and easily spooked but swimming. Now with the lights in the tank out, and only my regular room light on all of them are out, chasing each other and so on. In short looking more normal.
-All other fish in the tank seem to be doing great. Tetras, plecos, SAE, and the rasboras. No signs of any diseases as of yet. 
-Poop I would say is like a sausage, maybe little frayed, definitely no sign of red or yellow. It is held together by a little white film/mucus but I think it is normal.
-pH 6.7 to 6.8
KH 6 degrees
GH 10 degrees
-Nitrite 0
-Amonnia 0
-Nitrate ~ 15mg/L a bit on a high side considering I just did a water change. A bit strange I have to say.

Today I have purchased a 10G tank with a heater, filter, gravel, and air pump. It should be readu to go in 2 days as a quaranitne/medication tank. 

My questions as a follows:
-Once the 10G tank is ready should I transfer the 2 sick discus to it or let it play out in the big tank to see what wil happen?
-Should I transfer all of my discus to the 10G tank for two weeks observation?
-Any other things I should try?
-Since my big tank has CO2 injected, the pH is considerably different.
-Normal is 7.5, my tank is at 6.8 therefore will it not stress the sick ones more if I end up transfering them over? 

I also want to thank everyone for all the help. I read, re-read, and then read all over again all the posts/suggestions/ideas. I really appriciate all the help, without it I would probably be medicating my big tank for ich, fin rot and god knows what else. I definitely want my discus to survive and be happy.


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## kotoeloncat (Apr 12, 2006)

Sympley said:


> My questions as a follows:
> -Once the 10G tank is ready should I transfer the 2 sick discus to it or let it play out in the big tank to see what wil happen?
> -Should I transfer all of my discus to the 10G tank for two weeks observation?
> -Any other things I should try?
> ...


hmm, if i am understanding it right, your tank pH fluctuates between 7.5-6.8 ? thats quite a fluctuation, i dont think your discus like that.

the poop you describe looks like a normal poop, so at least i dont think you got the plague (Hexamita)

speaking from experience, both my tanks (45 and 200) are planted with co2 injection and has discus in them, I keep the tank open top and turn off the co2 when lights out. then I use 2 powerheads to create alot of surface agitation to difuse the co2 at night, it worked for me and creates a stable lights on/off pH

like Brilliant said, a picture will definetely helps

dont quote my word for it, but it looks like your discus is still acclimating and you are bound to see a few issues, since it doesnt seem you quarantine your new fish


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## Marilyn1998 (Mar 8, 2006)

I still doubt you actually have fin rot. It is probably more tattered fin from the pecking order going on. It will heal up on its own. Glad to hear all are feeling better. I wouldnt move them at this point, sounds more like they are finally acclimating. IT takes a couple of weeks for them to feel at home.

Just two comments on the feed:

Feeding high protein and varied diet is what it is all about. Remember, advice about discus can vary from small juvies to adults. Their requirements are different. Beef heart is great food. The problem is if not eaten it fouls the water fast. So, if you feed it, make sure any leftovers are cleaned up promplty.
As far as color bits. I know MANY successful breeders that use them. The color is appealing to the fish so those that are picky will readily eat it. ALso, the protein count is high. It WILL help color hte fish to a more reddish tinge tho. I prefer a good flake, frozen foods, and tetrabits. Just my opinion.

Good Luck with your discus! And keep us informed.


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## Sympley (Apr 18, 2006)

Quick update on the Discus.
The young one that was sick seems to be getting better. The white flaky stuff of his back by rear tail is almost gone, and the wound has alost dissapeared as well...knock on wood, I hope it will be gone by today.

The San Marino is the one worrying me. The white spot has grown to about 1cm on his back by the rear fin. It looks as the same stuff that the young one had except 3 time bigger. As I recall the young one had it also getting bigger before it started to dissapear. 

No other fish, nor discus are showing signs of any disease. So I am not sure if I should keep him in there and let him ride it out just like the small one, or if I should move him to a my small 10G tank that is waiting as quarantine tank. I just worry that the quarantine tank has a different pH 7.5 vs 6.7 therefore it might stress him even more. He is still very shy and probably streesed out with the disease or whatever it is. He does nibble at some food that he can find on the bottom. 

I have bought these special pelletes for Discus, but only the big ones are eating it, the small ones can't be bothered with it. I will be stopping my LFS to get some of the tetrabits see if they will have some. So far the young ones are only eating frozen blood worms, and frozen shrimp. Other than that they don't want to touch anything else.


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## kotoeloncat (Apr 12, 2006)

thats good to hear the small one is recovering, a picture of the white spot will definetely help identify what it is, can be many things

about feeding issue, usually it takes patience. my strategy is usually to let them starve, but of course these are *healthy* adult discus, so they can afford not eating for a day or two. by the third day they will eat whatever i plop in the tank


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## DiabloCanine (Aug 26, 2005)

Would have been nice to know these were wilds in the beginning. Where did you get them? Find out if they were quarantined at 90 degrees for 2 months and treated with formalin. Need to remember wilds are plucked out of the Amazon and held in holding tanks for several weeks even months until shipped. No telling what they can pick up in the process, they were transferred to different tanks in different places several times before you got them......DC


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## Sympley (Apr 18, 2006)

I got the Discus at a LFS (Big All's), it's pretty much the biggest store related to this hobby in Canada. There are others very small but Big All's is pretty much a place to go. I have nn idea as for how long tehse have been in tanks, I might have to stop by and as someone there, but I don't think they would know either. 

Just as an update on my discus:
The small one is healing up quite nicely, the scar has almost dissapeared. There is still one sugar grain size white thing attached to it. I just hope it will fall off and he will be fine. 

My San Marino, is pretty much with one fin on the other side. I scooped him out of the big tank (no resistance what so ever), and put him in my quarantine tank. The temp in the quarantine is between 86 to 88F, I also put in some medicaiton for fin rot/bacterial infection/wounds healer. About 30 minutes later he was sucked to the intake tube of the filter upside down. I Pulled him off the intake, and he was lying on the bottom sideways. I didn't think he will make it to the morning. This morning he was straight but breathing very, very heavy. I put another dose of medicine, some KENT discus essentials and now I am at work can't even think, all I have is my discus on my mind. I don't think he is going to pull through.
Stangely when I put him in the quarantine tank, the white stuff dissapeared within minutes, and only the damaged skin/wound is present. 

So sad


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## Georgiadawgger (Apr 23, 2004)

Sympley said:


> I got the Discus at a LFS (Big All's), it's pretty much the biggest store related to this hobby in Canada. There are others very small but Big All's is pretty much a place to go. I have nn idea as for how long tehse have been in tanks, I might have to stop by and as someone there, but I don't think they would know either.
> 
> Just as an update on my discus:
> The small one is healing up quite nicely, the scar has almost dissapeared. There is still one sugar grain size white thing attached to it. I just hope it will fall off and he will be fine.
> ...


The white spots may just be a genetic thing too....some blue cobalts and other strains will develop what appears to be a fungus or ick-type of white spots on their fins...but they are usually benign defects. Keep a close eye on it...we hope it pulls through. The great thing about Discus is once they get acclimated, start feeding like the pigs they are, etc, they are pretty darn resislient and can withstand a lot of beatings (from water changes, random spastic crashes into heaters and filter tubes, kicking each others a$$, etc).


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## DiabloCanine (Aug 26, 2005)

Temp in Q tank needs to be 90, dose with salt. Do a water change and put an airstone in the tank, you could suffocate the fish with too much medication ("breathing very, very heavy"). The first thing you do when you have a sick Discus is crank the heat up to 90 and dose salt (I do apologize for being repetitive, but it is important). Do you take antibiotics for a headache?. Do you know Barb Newell? http://www.simplydiscus.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50481 ? Might want to get in contact with her for your future Discus purchases....DC


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## Sympley (Apr 18, 2006)

Some bad news,

My San Marino is gone. I got back from work and he was covered in white fuzz all over. Looked pretty scary. I have one guppy and 2 rasboras in that medicine tank as well and these are OK not infections showing. 

Also, last week I moved my pigeon discus to the medicine tank. I was surprised because this was the most lively discus of the bigger ones. However one day I got home and noticed that either someone has bit his. I went to cottage for a weekend(my mom took care of the medication and feeding). Got back today his fin is totaly gone now, just the bones stickign out and he has this big white fuzz underneath. Barely alive and not eating since last week. So I had to swalow and just put him ot of the misery. 

Currently out of 6 purchased discus I have 2 dead, and 4 very stressed out because as I was at the cottage the Vortex diatom filter jar cracked and 1/2 of my aquarium water ended up on my carpert...what a mess. I just about have enough of this wonderfull hobby. 
I will not buy any discus from the store where I got the 2 that died, it is funny because I got them at a 25% discount....hmmm I wonder why. THe other 4 were bought at a different store and are OK. 

In any case I want to thank everyone for all the help. I followed all the recommendation, however it wasn't meant to be for 2 that died, I am strongly suspecting the store, not my set up. Once again thank you.


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## Brilliant (Apr 11, 2006)

I will still host pics for you if you need more assistance identifying this plague. I know how much of a pain it can be to resize pics and all thats why I offered. Last thing you need to worry about is some frustrating computer crap trying to share pics.

When I purchased my first Discus I was somewhat lucky. I did get some that were unhealthy and had trouble also. I also got some healthy ones. Things work out much better if you start out with healthy fish.

Try to do some research on breed standards and what to look for. It helps when selecting your Discus. I purchased all of my Discus mail order. Id rather take my chances then buy Discus from LFS, no offense. I did not have the luxury of picking out my fish, although I am very happy with the fish I have today. Stay confident and keep reading, things get much better.


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## Marilyn1998 (Mar 8, 2006)

I am very sorry to hear about the two. THe white fuzzy stuff was a fungal infection. It was probably a secondary infection that hit after whatever the first thing was.
Most LFS do not take care of discus the way they need to. And the remember, under 3.5" is very hard to care for. They need alot of good high protein food and lots of water changes.
Dont give up on the hobby. I would suggest you go to www.simpydiscus.com and read the posts there. Alot of great information that can also be ueful with other cichlids too.
I would get my fish from someone that came well recommended. A breeder in your area is the best bet. RESEARCH!!! 
I spent over $600 on 9 discus that came to me to die in less than 72 hours from an online outfit. Thought the half price deal was great! Well, I ended up with ONE discus. Not such a deal!
Good Luck in the future and with the rest of your fish. YOu have the basis of a great discus keeper. YOU care, you listen, and you are willing to try!!


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