# HC Melting Also...



## xNiNELiVES (Oct 28, 2013)

Tank setup (With items pertaining to situation):
Tank size: 38 Gallon
Substrates: ADA Powersand special M, ADA amazonia
Heater: Hydor inline 200w heater. Temp of tank at 76 degrees Fahrenheit. 
Co2 System: Aquatek premium regulator with solenoid. 5lb pressurized co2 @ 2-3 bps. Using a Green life aquarium inline co2 diffuser. Seems to be working great, have a massive amount of mist.
Lighting: Odyssea Quad T5 HO fixture. Using two Giessman Midddays and two Giessman aquafloras. 156W total.
My tap water is kinda basic at about 7.7. I have very good tap water quality, I don't know if it has to do with anything though. The soil makes the water more acidic. I have a lot of amazonia so my ph was at 6.8 the 2nd day and last time I checked it was at about 6.4. I did a big water change so it should be at 7 now or so...

Co2 and lights turn on and off at the same time. I keep them on for 11 hours a day. 

Dosing with flourish potassium, iron, and nitrogen.


Background:

I just started the aquarium last week (exactly) and I have an abnormally high ammonia count. About 8ppm. I had done two initial huge water changes. I stopped because it didn't cloud any more, I thought this meant the ammonia level was lower. I tested for ammonia and I got the 8ppm result. I didn't about a 80%+ water change to try to negate the effects of the ammonia.

I have about 25 clumps of Cuba I planted all around the aquarium.

Problem:

Well so I have found in the past 2 days or so that the cuba has turned a bit brownish yellow (Only an assortment and only part of the clumps are like this). I have fungus on my wood because i didn't boil it (I had no pot big enough. I heard it is harmless, but it is leaching onto two clumps of cuba (Not much only a little bit). All of this is worrying the living hell out of me. 

Possible solutions? Advice?

Thanks for reading.


----------



## pchnts8 (Oct 6, 2013)

I think you are moving way too fast. Having started just last week, your tank likely has not cycled; indicated by the ammonia you noticed, 8ppm is high. A lot of times, maintaining consistent conditions (within a range) is more important than hitting specific numbers. Plants are resilient, but you can't keep changing the game on them. Die-off is common as plants acclimate to their new conditions. Massive water changes with swings in pH and temperature don't help. 

You will likely experience a lot of die-off in the coming week and things will look start looking ratty until your tank stablizes. Light is like an igniter and 11 hrs is a lot to be driving the plants, you may consider easing off the temp, light, ferts and slowly ramp it up as they acclimate so you can watch and pace their growth. If you slow down the process, there is less likelihood / sensitivity to changes and they are less likely to burn-out due to one shortage or another.

I'm in week 5 of my nano, and after battling down hair algae and spot algae, with 3 wks of clear water, I'm now fighting off green water for the past week. After anguishing through those three weeks suffering a lot of HC die-off, it looks like things are recovering. I started dosing Seachem Flourish so far, and will be addiing root tabs soon, now that the HC has set its roots and started to send out runners. My pH now runs 6.5 - 6.8, 2 dkH, temp now is 22-24C, my hope is that I can now fert more and things will finally take off.

Consider removing the wood for now as its just another variable that can be throwing things. Consider adding some fast growing / easy plants to soak up any excess nutrients (plus allows you to tell whether something categorical is going wrong, as opposed to something specific to the HC). Thats how I figured that the HC die-off was due to the emmersed growth that it was raised in, and now it is adapting to life under water, as the rest of my other plants were a-ok.


----------



## xNiNELiVES (Oct 28, 2013)

I'll take all your advice (and use it) except for removing the wood and planting more plants. I just don't wanna go through disturbing my substrate. I do appreciate you retyping your experience with HC to help me. Thanks a lot man.


----------



## Rookie Rob (Oct 31, 2013)

I am experiencing the same thing at day 5 for my HC. I am having about 30-50% die off but every other type of plant in the tank seems to be doing well. I am just playing the waiting game and hoping for some recovery or at the least some root growth. I have my CO2 at 1 BPS and have brought the lights down to about 8 hours a day.


----------



## j03yYunG (Mar 26, 2013)

If you're starting off with a new tank, the ADA soil has lots of nutrition already. You don't need to dose any ferts for awhile. Just turn on the co2.

I went through the same thing with my HC in the 60P. I started right off the bat with fert and co2. 2 weeks into it, algae started to take over.

I stopped dosing the fert and added in floating plants to eat up the nutrition for about 2 weeks. And now the HC are starting to really grow in nicely.

So about 2 months in, I'm now doing weekly dosing of ferts and 8 hrs of light/co2.


----------



## xNiNELiVES (Oct 28, 2013)

j03yYunG said:


> If you're starting off with a new tank, the ADA soil has lots of nutrition already. You don't need to dose any ferts for awhile. Just turn on the co2.
> 
> I went through the same thing with my HC in the 60P. I started right off the bat with fert and co2. 2 weeks into it, algae started to take over.
> 
> ...


So you're saying the ferts are hurting my aquarium? I only started yesterday. Also it seems you have less light on... 8 hours a day compared to my 11 hours... To confirm with pchnts8, this is beneficial?


----------



## j03yYunG (Mar 26, 2013)

xNiNELiVES said:


> So you're saying the ferts are hurting my aquarium? I only started yesterday. Also it seems you have less light on... 8 hours a day compared to my 11 hours... To confirm with pchnts8, this is beneficial?


Yes I'm saying for a newly started tank, extra ferts will hurt your HCs. And you don't need 11 hrs of light. Algae will start to grow with that amount of lighting. Take a look at my journal on the 60P below.

You can see how the HC starts green, then starts melting back/dying and then back to green (this was when I stop doing ferts and added extra plants).


----------



## xNiNELiVES (Oct 28, 2013)

Ok I'll definately try that. What was your ammonia level when you first started one week in? Also, do you guys see the staurogyne repen in the second photo? It's in the middle, and this repen has spiky looking algae or something on it. I got soil on it (it wouldn't stay planted) and this appeared like 1 day after the aquarium was filled. It almost looked that way on the day it was filled. What the hell is this?


----------



## xNiNELiVES (Oct 28, 2013)

Its been a month and I bumped up the CO2 and added phosphorus... Apparently with the amount of light I have CO2 must my increased to compensate. At least this is what I've heard from my LFS.

Again though if any one has any other advice, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Will take some new photos and see if you guys think its improved.


----------



## pchnts8 (Oct 6, 2013)

I'm surprised you haven't had an algae explosion. Lucky you! If your plant growth has kept pace with your fert regimen, things must be looking good.

As it turns out, after doing insane water changes to rid myself of green water, I depleted a lot of nutrients and suffered a second die-back of the HC with what looked like N deficiency. Dosing with N now, hope to get back to a green.


----------



## xNiNELiVES (Oct 28, 2013)

Starting to dose EI. I would say its practically necessary with this plant. Runners are shooting. I had to fight green water with a UV sterilizer. Water is clear now and lets in more light for the HC.










There is many more patches of cuba but I'm currently changing my CO2 around and its causing a lot of algae...


----------



## xNiNELiVES (Oct 28, 2013)

Well its been a long long time since this last post above... I neglected my tanks plants (not the fish) for a long time and the whole tank went to hell. I basically water changed my way out of it and gravel sucked like a mad man. I then replanted new cuba.

Lights are on 7.5 hours a day. CO2 is at 1 BPS, and there seems to be a lot of CO2 being dispersed by a pump/powerhead. I'm lowering my dosing because the values I was using were way too high. I got the Cuba around 2 days ago and it already seems to be yellowing/browning a tinge. I buy Cuba that has been grown emersed, is this the transition or am I actually not raising it right?


----------



## klibs (May 1, 2014)

I am in a similar boat.

After doing DSM with a bunch of HC I filled my tank about a week ago and immediately started to dose 1/2 EI just to get some nutrients in there and blast CO2. My HC is growing like mad yet at the same time I am getting a good amount of die-off. Probably 5-10% is grey and melting which sucks. Starting to get worse day by day while other parts are growing like crazy. Did a trim yesterday as well to encourage runners.

I have dirt so the substrate is puking up ammonia like crazy right now. Been poking the substrate to release the bubbles every few days but I am assuming my ammonia levels are through the roof (still need to test for them). This could be my problem... I have a nice carpet going in some areas and am hoping the die-off will level out in the next week or two and I can have healthy plants!

Specs:
75 Gallon tank
CO2: A lot. Yellow drop checker
Lights: 2x T5HO for 7 hours a day
Substrate: Dirt (MGOCPM) capped with old Eco-Complete
Plants: Only HC right now (planting a lot of others in the next week)

Will excess ammonia do terrible things to my HC? Anything else I'm doing wrong?


----------



## Zapins (Jan 7, 2006)

This kind of thing happens frequently with HC in particular. It seems to be particularly sensitive to ammonia and dies off like yours are. Get the ammonia below 0.5 ppm with lots of large water changes. Once the aqua soil calms down and loses some of its nutrients it will be fine.


----------



## xNiNELiVES (Oct 28, 2013)

klibs said:


> I am in a similar boat.
> 
> After doing DSM with a bunch of HC I filled my tank about a week ago and immediately started to dose 1/2 EI just to get some nutrients in there and blast CO2. My HC is growing like mad yet at the same time I am getting a good amount of die-off. Probably 5-10% is grey and melting which sucks. Starting to get worse day by day while other parts are growing like crazy. Did a trim yesterday as well to encourage runners.
> 
> ...


I'm similar to you in the fact that I am using 1/2 EI... It sounds like you are fine with yours spurting like crack...

I on the other hand am using a cycled tank, and I am also using 4 T5HO on my 40g. Total I have 3.9 WPG. I mean is this too much? Do I need more CO2 because I'm using so much light?


----------



## klibs (May 1, 2014)

xNiNELiVES said:


> I'm similar to you in the fact that I am using 1/2 EI... It sounds like you are fine with yours spurting like crack...
> 
> I on the other hand am using a cycled tank, and I am also using 4 T5HO on my 40g. Total I have 3.9 WPG. I mean is this too much? Do I need more CO2 because I'm using so much light?


Not sure but I am blasting like 6-10 BPS to acclimate after dry start. My HC is doing much better after submergence. I don't think too much CO2 can hurt...? This is my first rodeo with high tech / HC but I would turn up your CO2 until it looks healthier and then tone it down over time (what I'm doing).

The good parts of mine are killing it though, they are established and I have at least a 10" x 10" section of carpet so far.

I'll post some pics of what's going down in my tank if I have time later tonight. Hopefully we can help each other out...


----------



## xNiNELiVES (Oct 28, 2013)

klibs said:


> Not sure but I am blasting like 6-10 BPS to acclimate after dry start. My HC is doing much better after submergence. I don't think too much CO2 can hurt...? This is my first rodeo with high tech / HC but I would turn up your CO2 until it looks healthier and then tone it down over time (what I'm doing).
> 
> The good parts of mine are killing it though, they are established and I have at least a 10" x 10" section of carpet so far.
> 
> I'll post some pics of what's going down in my tank if I have time later tonight. Hopefully we can help each other out...


Holy jesus thats crazy 10x10, wow. Anyways the only downside for me to turn up the CO2 is the fish, I don't know if they can handle that much CO2... I believe I guess I will crank mine up to 2.5 bps or something. Though I know fiddling with CO2 can really cause some problems, I wanna make this short and sweet.

Yeah hopefully we can help each other out lol. 

What I know Cuba Likes:

High CO2: good water circulation is required to deliver CO2 to the plant!
High Light: cannot be blocked by other plants
Flourish Excel: This stuff is like crack.
Root Tabs: I haven't tried this.


----------



## Zapins (Jan 7, 2006)

xNiNELiVES - I'm not sure if you saw my earlier post, but this problem you are having with HC is because the ammonia is too high, it is an ammonia toxicity.


----------



## xNiNELiVES (Oct 28, 2013)

Zapins said:


> xNiNELiVES - I'm not sure if you saw my earlier post, but this problem you are having with HC is because the ammonia is too high, it is an ammonia toxicity.


Ammonia? Lol that was 11 months ago. I have a fully cycled tank.


----------



## klibs (May 1, 2014)

xNiNELiVES said:


> Ammonia? Lol that was 11 months ago. I have a fully cycled tank.


I just checked my ammonia and it is only at like .25 PPM according to API test kit. I am still banking on my melting being from the transition from dry start... I'll post a few pics tomorrow sometime. A decent amount more has started melting and turning grey since yesterday so it is definitely still getting worse...


----------



## xNiNELiVES (Oct 28, 2013)

klibs said:


> I just checked my ammonia and it is only at like .25 PPM according to API test kit. I am still banking on my melting being from the transition from dry start... I'll post a few pics tomorrow sometime. A decent amount more has started melting and turning grey since yesterday so it is definitely still getting worse...


Quite scary... Looking forward to pics to assess your situation.


----------



## klibs (May 1, 2014)

If you look closely you can see parts of it starting to grey and die away. Other than that my carpet is doing pretty hot.


----------



## Zapins (Jan 7, 2006)

Updated photos are needed to figure out your current issue xnine. The original problem from a year ago was the ammonia.


----------



## xNiNELiVES (Oct 28, 2013)

Zapins said:


> Updated photos are needed to figure out your current issue xnine. The original problem from a year ago was the ammonia.


Ok I will take some pics. 

Klibs your carpet is doing fine haha.


----------



## klibs (May 1, 2014)

xNiNELiVES said:


> Ok I will take some pics.
> 
> Klibs your carpet is doing fine haha.


but the grey parts!!! lol I think you're right though. I will really start to get worried in another week or so if it keeps dying.

Good luck with your HC


----------



## xNiNELiVES (Oct 28, 2013)

Ok coming home to my tank today:

So much algae! I just gravel sucked like 3 days ago with a WC! 

I increased CO2 to 2.5BPS from 1 and switched around my pump to distribute the CO2 more.

So anyways here are some pictures of the cuba with this damn brown algae.


----------



## klibs (May 1, 2014)

What is your light period like? Are you blasting all 4 bulbs on your quad T5? I used 2 bulbs & 7hrs / day for a while on my HC and it has grown. I'm slowly ramping it up and turning on the 3rd bulb for a few hours in the middle - plan on stopping when I see algae but so far so good. 

Cutting back on the intensity will probably help you with your algae - you probs do not have enough plants to use all that light and your HC will be fine with <4 bulbs hitting it at once.


----------



## xNiNELiVES (Oct 28, 2013)

klibs said:


> What is your light period like? Are you blasting all 4 bulbs on your quad T5? I used 2 bulbs & 7hrs / day for a while on my HC and it has grown. I'm slowly ramping it up and turning on the 3rd bulb for a few hours in the middle - plan on stopping when I see algae but so far so good.
> 
> Cutting back on the intensity will probably help you with your algae - you probs do not have enough plants to use all that light and your HC will be fine with <4 bulbs hitting it at once.


I've had all four bulbs on for 7.5hr a day. I do have a lot of plants but they haven't accumulated that much biomass. I'm getting honestly very annoyed. I cannot and haven't got my aquarium stable forever. I just want my plants to grow like crack, like Tom Barr has...:frown:

So I will try removing an aqua flora T5 bulb...


----------



## xNiNELiVES (Oct 28, 2013)

Oh I know whats happening... My CO2 is at 150ppm! My diffuser must be really efficient or something, I was only at around 2 BPS.


----------



## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

xNiNELiVES said:


> Oh I know whats happening... My CO2 is at 150ppm! My diffuser must be really efficient or something, I was only at around 2 BPS.


What are you using to measure the co2? Also high co2 will kill fish but not plants. Do you have a drop checker and is it calibrated properly?


----------



## xNiNELiVES (Oct 28, 2013)

Yes I do have a drop checker. I don't quite know what you mean by calibrating... Anyways, I measured my KH and pH and compared it to a chart on Tom Barr's site (I used his tip that optimal CO2 is 1-2 boxes below the green due to optimal CO2 being 30-40ppm; this argues with the chart, I digress...). I had a KH of 8-8.5 degrees with a pH of 6.2!


----------



## xNiNELiVES (Oct 28, 2013)

Made a new thread about my tank parameters in general because I believe it is just the main cause to this cuba dying.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=686170&highlight=


----------

