# Sand blasting sand ok? 50lb good? 55g



## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

Comes in 3 grain sizes: https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/black-diamond-medium-blasting-abrasives


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

20/40 grit Black Diamond blasting media if you can get it.
Some rinsing in an old pillow case a little at a time were it me. 
30/60 grit works also, but is smaller grain size and plants seem to hold better in the 20/40 grit for me.


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

48x15x2" deep = 1,440 cu. in.
50# bag @ 92 lb / cu. ft > 860 cu. in.

Looks like 2 bags?


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

Or 2 pounds per gallon.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

roadmaster said:


> 20/40 grit Black Diamond blasting media if you can get it.
> Some rinsing in an old pillow case a little at a time were it me.
> 30/60 grit works also, but is smaller grain size and plants seem to hold better in the 20/40 grit for me.


The pillow case idea is a GREAT idea- never thought about that! I just got a 50 lb bag for my 55 gallon and was thinking of how to wash it. If I do use this (and remove the current pool filter sand, still undecided) I'll try this out. 

Thanks for asking this question OP, was on my mind as well!


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## RevTerry (Mar 27, 2018)

Ok I'm doing that

How would I do topsoil? Is it really necessary with coal slag?


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

3/4 - 1" of topsoil capped with 1-1/4" or so of BDBS.

Screen topsoil of all debris and soak to remove anything that floats.


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

You can use Black Dimond by itself, without soil.


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## RevTerry (Mar 27, 2018)

Ok how long would I soak soil? And is black diamond nutritious already?


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

BDBS in completely inert.

Using soil can be risky for some.

Soaking the soil would take about 30 minutes.
Use a net and remove all materials that float, stir, repeat.
When you move plants and have a cap breach this prevents the mess from making your water brown.


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## RevTerry (Mar 27, 2018)

Sorry ive never done soil what are the risks? And what's a cap breach and how would I do it?


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## StraightAddicted (May 20, 2012)

The top layer is referred to as a cap (which would be the Black Diamond Sand). Moving plants in and out of the sand will cause your soil below to cloud the water and mix with the sand more. Keeping the two separated is the challenge if you are constantly buying/selling plants or changing layouts. Sand with root tabs could be beneficial if you want less of a mess overall. 

The risks of soil; most soils have broken down debris that can be a hassle to remove. Hence Maryland Guppy stating to repeat the cleanup method multiple times.


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## RevTerry (Mar 27, 2018)

Is the sand with root tabs enough without soil?


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## Nefarious (Jan 22, 2018)

RevTerry said:


> Is the sand with root tabs enough without soil?


I'm having great success with just BDBS, root tabs, and liquid ferts.


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## oyeabog (Nov 4, 2009)

OMG I just washed 50 lbs of BDBS and then I read this ,I have the fine stuff now iam reading to use the medium type . What will happen it I use the fine over dirt as a cap ? Is there a disadvantage fine vs medium ? Please help anyone that has done this .


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## RevTerry (Mar 27, 2018)

@Nefarious thanks. Think I'm switching this weekend.


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## Kubla (Jan 5, 2014)

oyeabog said:


> OMG I just washed 50 lbs of BDBS and then I read this ,I have the fine stuff now iam reading to use the medium type . What will happen it I use the fine over dirt as a cap ? Is there a disadvantage fine vs medium ? Please help anyone that has done this .


No personal experience with the fine but this was just a few posts back on page 1.



roadmaster said:


> 20/40 grit Black Diamond blasting media if you can get it.
> Some rinsing in an old pillow case a little at a time were it me.
> 30/60 grit works also, but is smaller grain size and plants seem to hold better in the 20/40 grit for me.


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

oyeabog said:


> OMG I just washed 50 lbs of BDBS and then I read this ,I have the fine stuff now iam reading to use the medium type . What will happen it I use the fine over dirt as a cap ? Is there a disadvantage fine vs medium ? Please help anyone that has done this .


Fine sand has more of a propensity to compact and create noxious gas pockets. I'd introduce some MTS or see if you can exchange for medium grit. Just my $0.02


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## oyeabog (Nov 4, 2009)

Kubla said:


> No personal experience with the fine but this was just a few posts back on page 1.


Thanks for the reply ,I went back yesterday and returned the other bag and got medium grit .Medium is a better choose that fine grit is like sand .

Bump:


varanidguy said:


> Fine sand has more of a propensity to compact and create noxious gas pockets. I'd introduce some MTS or see if you can exchange for medium grit. Just my $0.02


yea I was thinking that too Thanks


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

oyeabog said:


> Thanks for the reply ,I went back yesterday and returned the other bag and got medium grit .Medium is a better choose that fine grit is like sand .
> 
> Bump: yea I was thinking that too Thanks




I use the medium grit Black Diamond and still have MTS for safe measure. They’re like the earth worms of a planted tank...keep things aerated! Since introducing them, things do seem better. Less mulm collects on the surface.


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## RevTerry (Mar 27, 2018)

I am curious when I do switch I'm not keeping the playsand, should I drain and remove everything to take the old out?


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

RevTerry said:


> I am curious when I do switch I'm not keeping the playsand, should I drain and remove everything to take the old out?




Some suggest changing sections at a time because a very large amount of BB lives in the substrate. 

If you’re going to do it all at once, my suggestion would be to take everything out, fish included. Put them in a large bin (like a 50 gallon Rubbermaid) and put the filtration on that. Change the substrate, rescape the tank, flood the tank, and squeeze out filter sponges into the tank to seed the new substrate. Follow up with frequent water changes, like daily or every other day, until your parameters are back to good.

Changing out all of the substrate at once will likely cause your tank to go into a mini cycle.


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## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

oyeabog said:


> OMG I just washed 50 lbs of BDBS and then I read this ,I have the fine stuff now iam reading to use the medium type . What will happen it I use the fine over dirt as a cap ? Is there a disadvantage fine vs medium ? Please help anyone that has done this .


Glad you swapped it for medium grit. One other thing that is sometimes overlooked on finer grain - that compacting can crush or suffocate roots, especially on things like crypts. Just thought I'd mention that for others reading the thread later


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## RevTerry (Mar 27, 2018)

Think I may wait awhile. Just scaped the 55 for the first time truly planted, thanks to a few folks on here. It's a bit murky hard to get a good pic of all of it on my phone.


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## Pamala7 (Jun 3, 2018)

Is the blasting sand safe for use with soft belly fish such as Corys and Oto's. Ok for for fry tanks?


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## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

Pamala7 said:


> Is the blasting sand safe for use with soft belly fish such as Corys and Oto's. Ok for for fry tanks?


Everyone I've seen had said no issues with Cory's. I've had no problems with fry either.


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

Pamala7 said:


> Is the blasting sand safe for use with soft belly fish such as Corys and Oto's. Ok for for fry tanks?




I have had zero issues with medium grit with both types of fish you asked about.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

I have ottos and corys in my tank with no issues at all. Healthy and happy with all barbells, no scratches! The Cory's sift through with what seems to be no issues.


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## Rhavinity (Jun 7, 2018)

I literally put this in my tank Saturday, because paying $20 for 20 lbs of black sand again was aggravating. Corys and Kuhli loaches are fine. Mine has a tint of gold/yellow with it.


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## CichRick (Jun 14, 2018)

Does anyone keep shrimp with Black Diamond for sub? How would Neocaridina fare in this coal slag substrate? I'm considering getting some to setup 8 10g shrimp breeding tanks. Thanks.


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## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

CichRick said:


> Does anyone keep shrimp with Black Diamond for sub? How would Neocaridina fare in this coal slag substrate? I'm considering getting some to setup 8 10g shrimp breeding tanks. Thanks.


Neocaridina and caridina are both fine 

My big tip is to rubber band a chopstick or something to a siphon tube and use the stick to stir the substrate while the siphon sucks up there crap. This is the best way I found to keep the substrate clean without using the traditional grabel vacs that will kill shrimp easily.


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## CichRick (Jun 14, 2018)

Thanks. Great to know. I'm going to grab a couple of bags tomorrow for sure. That's a great looking tank, what do you feed your plants since the black diamond has no nutrients?


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## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

CichRick said:


> Thanks. Great to know. I'm going to grab a couple of bags tomorrow for sure. That's a great looking tank, what do you feed your plants since the black diamond has no nutrients?


Thanks! There are many of us that run tanks with BDSD. Check out burr740's journal if you want to see something impressive in BDSD.

I just buy this and dose loosely based on EI:
http://nilocg.com/ei-based-npk-csm-b-with-gh-booster/

I did have 6 with BDSD before tearing down 2 last week to free up time. I also have two with Amazonia, and while I love Amazonia, BDSD is much cheaper, easier to clean, and doesn't eventually break down requiring a substrate replacement.


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## madcrafted (Dec 23, 2017)

natemcnutty said:


> Neocaridina and caridina are both fine
> 
> My big tip is to rubber band a chopstick or something to a siphon tube and use the stick to stir the substrate while the siphon sucks up there crap. This is the best way I found to keep the substrate clean without using the traditional grabel vacs that will kill shrimp easily.


Just curious... how are you keeping your pH low and consistent enough for CRS with the BDBS?


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## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

madcrafted said:


> Just curious... how are you keeping your pH low and consistent enough for CRS with the BDBS?


Common misconception that caridinas require a low pH and 0+1 dKH. Those are definitely preferred parameters, but they can live just fine outside of them.

This tank was at about 7.6 and 3-4 dKG for a few years before I moved them to a different tank (7.2/2dKH). The question I always had in the back of my mind was if colors or breeding would have been a lot better at proper parameters. That is something I have not confirmed yet


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## madcrafted (Dec 23, 2017)

natemcnutty said:


> Common misconception that caridinas require a low pH and 0+1 dKH. Those are definitely preferred parameters, but they can live just fine outside of them.
> 
> This tank was at about 7.6 and 3-4 dKG for a few years before I moved them to a different tank (7.2/2dKH). The question I always had in the back of my mind was if colors or breeding would have been a lot better at proper parameters. That is something I have not confirmed yet


Well, the results speak for themselves. If they have been breeding in these parameters for years, I imagine they have adapted pretty well to it. I've often heard that CRS/CBS are a bit more tolerant to less than "ideal" parameters when compared to other Caridina Cantonensis species like TBs or those "Fancy" lines. 

You have enough KH to keep pH from bouncing all over the place. That is what kills shrimp quickly... rapid shift in parameters. My guess is that shrimps that are thriving in low pH 5.5-6.4 are relying on the pH to keep ammonia bound in NH4 form. If you were to do a large water change with pH neutral RO/DI water, the pH would rise above 6.5 and ammonia would be more than your filter could get rid of since the bacterial colony is already reduced anyway from such soft waters. This is the main reason you see 10% water changes thrown around the internet for these shrimp, to avoid such rapid shifts.

The only downside I can see in keeping Caridinas in higher pH is they are more prone to bacterial disease. Many won't breed in such parameters either. I couldn't get my BKK to breed until I got pH well below 6.5. This is another reason people don't use Fluval Stratum for TB tanks, it loses it's buffering quickly compared to others, often having a steady pH of 6.6/6.7 after a few months. I had to learn this lesson for myself. I even lost quite a few to pH shifts when doing water changes.


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