# What type of substrate do you use?



## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

I sometimes feel like my regular gravel is not good enough.


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## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

I use flourite. I thinks its more on the looks of what you want and what you want to grow.


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## frozenbarb (Dec 16, 2006)

lol youll see a change with enriched substrate


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## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

well there is just some much enriched substrate to choose from im over welmed at what will be the:

best for my money
wont change my water(ph)


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## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Flourite is probably the cheapest and wont mess with your water.


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## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

so just flourite and nothing else....i have a 100 gallon tank to fill...that would be..how many bags? lol


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## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Well Flourite comes in 20 lb bags so 5 for like an inch layer and thats like $25 a bag. so $125 for an inch of substrate. You can always go with a design though. Sand in the front or a sand river. Just dont plant in the sanded area.


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

Actually it comes in 15 lb bags.

There is a substrate calculator available here that will tell you how much you need.

http://www.plantedtank.net/substratecalculator.html


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## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Rex Grigg said:


> Actually it comes in 15 lb bags.
> 
> There is a substrate calculator available here that will tell you how much you need.
> 
> http://www.plantedtank.net/substratecalculator.html


The bags around here are 20. Thought it was the same every where. Sorry for the wrong ammount.


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## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

well i could just keep my substrate and mix some bags of flourite with it..??


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## Chrona (Feb 25, 2007)

James From Cali said:


> The bags around here are 20. Thought it was the same every where. Sorry for the wrong ammount.


You sure you're not thinking of Ecocomplete? Seachem only makes the 7 kg/ ~15lb size afaik. I mean, not that it matters, but.... 

http://www.seachem.com/products/product_pages/Flourite.html


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## frozenbarb (Dec 16, 2006)

I would go with eco 

or SMS from lescos

50 pound for 15.99

i mean look at scallens tank, he has SMS and he has plants for sale everyweek , flourishing like crazy


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## Hewer_07 (Feb 25, 2007)

i mixed my gravel, reg and flourite, reason i did this cuz im a poor highschool student


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## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

i did the substrate calculator and to get one inch of substrate with flourite, i would need 80lbs which equals to 5 bags of flourite at 13.99 totalling $72. I could just add this to my original substrate that i already have in my tank. You see, im planning on moving so ill have to drain the tank and take everything out any way so I could mix both of the substrates together to get 1. deeper soil over all
2. add substrate with nutrients!

for $72 dollars!


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## Joetee (Mar 28, 2006)

I use only Flourite. I have 4 bags in my 29. You can usually find it for $1.00 a pound. If your going to get a large tank, expect to boy large or a lot of stuff. LOL
I only wish it came in all black.


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## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

frozenbarb said:


> I would go with eco
> 
> or SMS from lescos
> 
> ...


what exactly is this type of gravel? where can i get it? pics?


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## sfcallen (Dec 13, 2006)

Save your money and buy the soilmaster. I trim 2-3 times a week and throw away 3x times what I sell on here and at the LFS's. I think I spent $27 for two bags and have done my 75 gal, a 20 gal long, and I still have enough left to do another small tank. Also mixed some in some potting soil for some house plants. The red is not real pretty but it will stay covered with plants, also available in charcoal color that is nice. I am sure AS, eco, and the seachem stuff are all great substrates, but not required for 99% of the plants we grow. For me it was the best value and available down the street. It is inert and has good CEC. you can check out this thread to see some of it in "action". JMHO ymmv

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/photo-album/40800-75-gal-weed-collection-big-pics.html


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## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

sfcallen said:


> Save your money and buy the soilmaster. I trim 2-3 times a week and throw away 3x times what I sell on here and at the LFS's. I think I spent $27 for two bags and have done my 75 gal, a 20 gal long, and I still have enough left to do another small tank. Also mixed some in some potting soil for some house plants. The red is not real pretty but it will stay covered with plants, also available in charcoal color that is nice. I am sure AS, eco, and the seachem stuff are all great substrates, but not required for 99% of the plants we grow. For me it was the best value and available down the street. It is inert and has good CEC. you can check out this thread to see some of it in "action". JMHO ymmv
> 
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/photo-album/40800-75-gal-weed-collection-big-pics.html


so the substrate in your link is soilmaster? The red color isnt that bad...So where can i get this stuff??? So it has alot of nutrients in it?


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## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

http://www.lesco.com/?PageID=27&ItemNumber=088667 <---is this it?


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## yoink (Apr 21, 2005)

I have a two tanks with eco complete, one with TMS, and seven with SMS charcoal. SMS grows plants as well as eco at a fraction of the cost.


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## Chrona (Feb 25, 2007)

Are there any local places were you can get soilmaster? I'd imagine the cost of shipping a 50lb bag would offset a lot of the price saving.


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## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

yeah i really dont want to ship this stuff. I dont even know where to look. I thought you could only get it at lescos. BTW, it soilmaster a product of lesco only?


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## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

http://www.oildri.com/agri/images/soilselect.gif is this what the bag looks like??


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## sfcallen (Dec 13, 2006)

This is the one I got. http://www.lesco.com/?PageID=27&ItemNumber=080310
I just went to my local LESCO store and picked it up. Shipping it to your door I would think would be pricey just like shipping any other substrate is. 
It is inert, so it has nothing in it. no nutrients are in it. It is cheap, easy, and grows plants very good. Wash it extra well BEFORE putting it in your tank.


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## sfcallen (Dec 13, 2006)

RachPreach said:


> http://www.oildri.com/agri/images/soilselect.gif is this what the bag looks like??



My bag was different because that is select and I used regular. Here are a bunch of threads about soilmaster. http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/search.php?searchid=1028663


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## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

ok well im going to a town tomorrow that has that kind that you showed me so i guess ill get two bags of it for a 100 gallon tank....maybe 3


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## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

so how does it grow plants so good if there are no nutrients?


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## yoink (Apr 21, 2005)

You fertilize the water column.


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## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

but soilmaster is way better than regular small gravel?

also, where can you find turface pro league?


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## Left C (Nov 15, 2003)

AquariumPlants.com's substrate wasn't mentioned. I believe that it's Soilmaster that is repackaged into a 5 gallon bucket. http://www.aquariumplants.com/product_p/ss-1.htm

They also offer free shipping on Flourite and Eco-Complete. http://www.aquariumplants.com/Substrate_Gravels_Sands_s/121.htm


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## Rod Hay (Feb 11, 2006)

Another vote for Soilmaster Select. Although, I've grown to dislike the red color and, after hooking up with the black SMS, I am gradually changing out my ahmm....few tanks.


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## Loyal to the Oil (Apr 3, 2007)

I use eco and it didnt change my water (other than my gH going up a small amount for the first week and then came right back down). I have had CO2 and high light and liquid ferts for a while and my plants just wouldnt grow. Made the switch to eco from regular LFS gravel and its like night and day. I HIGHLY reccomend eco-complete. Also you use less eco than that calculator says you need. I entered a 3 inch depth and it told me i needed 76 lbs (almost 4 bags). I used only 3 bags and got the 3 inches depth i was looking for. And on another note i think the dark substrate looks really good !

James


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## spypet (Sep 15, 2006)

I just wanted to warn people how aggravating it can be to deal with Lesko/Soilmaster. If they have the bag and color you want for pick up locally, then you are definitely in luck. However, if they don't stock it, nobody at the local dealer or at Lesko tells you what if any shipping costs will be added if they include your bag(s) to the local Lesco dealers weekly delivery. In addition, if you want it UPS Ground shipped to you locally, nobody gives you a straight answer from either the corporate office or local dealers. They basically ship it, and then charge you whatever it cost later. I don't know about you, but I'd be nervous ordering a 50 pound item without knowing the shipping first. It could be $zero $15 or $150, who knows!

Update: their customer service emailed back a $41 UPS Ground quote to drop ship to me, but they still won't tell me how much it is to my local reseller for pick up. *sigh*


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## ringram (Jan 19, 2005)

I use Aquasoil w/ powersand in my 90g and aquasoil alone in my 25g. I like the texture, size, color and excellent growth results of this substrate.


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## yoink (Apr 21, 2005)

spypet said:


> I just wanted to warn people how aggravating it can be to deal with Lesko/Soilmaster. If they have the bag and color you want for pick up locally, then you are definitely in luck. However, if they don't stock it, nobody at the local dealer or at Lesko tells you what if any shipping costs will be added if they include your bag(s) to the local Lesco dealers weekly delivery. In addition, if you want it UPS Ground shipped to you locally, nobody gives you a straight answer from either the corporate office or local dealers. They basically ship it, and then charge you whatever it cost later. I don't know about you, but I'd be nervous ordering a 50 pound item without knowing the shipping first. It could be $zero $15 or $150, who knows!


I've had luck twice ordering it to the store and then just picking it up. No need to talk a manager into ordering it for you. There were no extra charges, just $16 for the bag. It can be had at other places, you have to get that info from the manufacturer, oil-dri.


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## TigerLilly (Oct 11, 2004)

I use plain topsoil topped with a inch of pre-washed play sand. No complaint here.


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## spypet (Sep 15, 2006)

yoink said:


> I've had luck twice ordering it to the store and then just picking it up. No need to talk a manager into ordering it for you. There were no extra charges, just $16 for the bag. It can be had at other places, you have to get that info from the manufacturer, oil-dri.



Did you order it through the web sight for pick up from a local dealer?
-or-
did you call the local dealer and have him add it to their weekly order?

cause for me, the local guys are all a-holes who don't seem to care about one bag homeowner requests.
the guy asked me what I was using it for (like it's any of his business) I tell him a fish tank, so he laughs.


BTW, does anyone know what this is, or how it differs from the Charcoal (black):
PRO'S CHOICE SOILMASTER PLUS *CERAMIC* 
http://www.lesco.com/?PageID=27&ItemNumber=083745


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## yoink (Apr 21, 2005)

I ordered mine online for local store pickup. I didn't talk to anyone at the store until it was there, ready to be picked up. They did get a pallet in and sold most of it by the bag to aquarium people. They seem pretty cool around here, one of the stores even donated a couple bags for a local auction.


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## spypet (Sep 15, 2006)

yoink said:


> I ordered mine online for local store pickup. I didn't talk to anyone at the store until it was there, ready to be picked up. They did get a pallet in and sold most of it by the bag to aquarium people. They seem pretty cool around here, one of the stores even donated a couple bags for a local auction.


Thanks for that clarification. I'm sorry to complain so much, but it really stems my clams how awful their web sight is. For example, I tried to put in an order for 2 bags, and they ask for your CC information before telling you how they will ship it. I'm afraid to put in order in for fear they mean to UPS it to my CC's billing address! Sheeesh...


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## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

i just ordered 4 bags of the soilmaster select charcoal today!! It will be in in about a week with no extra shipping charges!! Im so excited!


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## frozenbarb (Dec 16, 2006)

wow free shipping charge?, how This happen??


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## Chrona (Feb 25, 2007)

frozenbarb said:


> wow free shipping charge?, how This happen??


It's shipped to the store I'm guessing. The store pays pretty much a flat fee anyways, so it's not sweat off their backs.


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## spypet (Sep 15, 2006)

RachPreach said:


> i just ordered 4 bags of the soilmaster select charcoal today!! It will be in in about a week with no extra shipping charges!! Im so excited!


Rach; did you do it with the web sight, or calling your local dealer?
-if the web sight, at what point do you specify your local dealer?
-if you called the local dealer, did you have to prepay for your order?

I just got an email back from Lesco's web sight customer service:

_In order to place an order to be delivered to the local service center,
you would need to place the order online at our website. (www.lesco.com)
The freight cost would still apply and the minimum cost is $25.00._

This contradicts what people have been posting here. 
what the heck is going on with these people!


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## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

i went directly to the store and ordered it. I did not prepay, he said the soil would be in in about a week and he would call me to come pick it up. He was very nice.


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## sfcallen (Dec 13, 2006)

RachPreach said:


> i went directly to the store and ordered it. I did not prepay, he said the soil would be in in about a week and he would call me to come pick it up. He was very nice.


This has been my experience also at my local LESCO store. Said they could have anything I wanted added to their weekly resupply order.


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Yeah, these guys are having pallet loads shipped to re-surface baseball fields and soccer/football fields etc. Much cheaper than Aquarium store prices. But Soilmaster Select can lower pH/kh dramatically right? That is usually a good thing, unless you already have RO/DI type water out of the well.


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## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

no, soilmaster does not alter anything in the water as far as I know...


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## Rhinoman (Jun 6, 2006)

spypet said:


> I just wanted to warn people how aggravating it can be to deal with Lesko/Soilmaster. If they have the bag and color you want for pick up locally, then you are definitely in luck. However, if they don't stock it, nobody at the local dealer or at Lesko tells you what if any shipping costs will be added if they include your bag(s) to the local Lesco dealers weekly delivery. In addition, if you want it UPS Ground shipped to you locally, nobody gives you a straight answer from either the corporate office or local dealers. They basically ship it, and then charge you whatever it cost later. I don't know about you, but I'd be nervous ordering a 50 pound item without knowing the shipping first. It could be $zero $15 or $150, who knows!
> 
> Update: their customer service emailed back a $41 UPS Ground quote to drop ship to me, but they still won't tell me how much it is to my local reseller for pick up. *sigh*


If you order SMS online from Lesco and have it shipped to your local Lesco they'll call you when it comes in (a week or two). No shipping cost!


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## yoink (Apr 21, 2005)

Betowess is right, it can tank your kh. About two months after I set my 75G up the kh was 4.5(first time I measured it), down from the source water with a kh of 9. I did not rinse it prior to use, I'm not sure if that makes a difference or not. This was with 30% weekly water changes. My plants and fish loved it, so I didn't worry about it.


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## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

so the soil reduces kh?


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## yoink (Apr 21, 2005)

RachPreach said:


> so the soil reduces kh?


Mine did. Here is a thread on the subject.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/substrate/37982-soilmaster-select-ph.html?highlight=soilmaster


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## KDahlin (Mar 12, 2007)

I have Fluorite in two of my tanks and Eco in the third. Ideal for me would be if Flourite came in black. I much prefer the dark substrate of Eco but like the texture of Fluorite.


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## cott (May 26, 2007)

I use fluorite and hate the color. Covered it in black gravel which also helps hold bunch plants in place.


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## Discus_Lover (Apr 27, 2007)

Personally i have used about every substrate their is out there and for the money Flourite is better in the long run only cause it doesn't break down and holds nutrients for a good amount of time.For the money thats what i use, it is more expensive but last longer so your using less money and time.Try mixing Flourite with a layer of laterite


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## cott (May 26, 2007)

Floramax is another one and sold in 40 pounds bags. Have no idea what the shipping would be for 2, tho. I'd check first.

http://www.aquariumguys.com/floramax.html


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## rodney (Apr 10, 2007)

eco complete for my planted tanks, and moon sand for my cichlid tanks.


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## BenScoobert (Jun 15, 2007)

I use peat, about 2cm deep, with regular gravel above.

It causes acidity for a week or so, plants thrive and put runners out easily.


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## Joetee (Mar 28, 2006)

KDahlin said:


> I have Fluorite in two of my tanks and Eco in the third. Ideal for me would be if Flourite came in black. I much prefer the dark substrate of Eco but like the texture of Fluorite.


Flourite is coming in Black sometime. I just read about it recently and found their add in my fish magazine. Just don't know how long it will be. I hope soon because I am moving soon and was hoping to change to the black.


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## Discus_Lover (Apr 27, 2007)

Black would look nice,ive been waiting for that one


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## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

does SMS break down over time?


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## frozenbarb (Dec 16, 2006)

Nope

Bawahwhahh


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## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

bawahwhahh? wow.... and i thought i was random. lol


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## cleekdafish (Jun 13, 2007)

I like the eco complete look...nice color , bring the colors of ur fish out and its rugged looking its gd if u want a rocky riverbed look.:smile:


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## D.gilly (Sep 25, 2005)

try www.aquariumplants.com they sell their substarate by 5 gallons and for a 5 gallon tub ( enough to fill a 55 gallon at a depth of 3 inches ) for 40 bucks before shipping. also it is black in colour.

5 gallon bucket will cover: 
4 sq ft at a depth of 3" 
(a 55 gallon aquarium measures 48" by 12" or 4 sq ft.)


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## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

Schultz Aquatic Soil is another option. Some people swear by it and it costs almost 75% cheaper than fluorite for the same quantity. I experimented with it in my 2.5 gallon nano and the plants did surprisingly well and as well if not better than the plants in other tank containing fluorite. The only problem with Schultz is that it only comes in a ugly looking brown colour and you would need to top it off with some pea size gravel as it is very light and it may prove difficult to initially anchor the plants in. However, the plants form heavy roots in a hurry, so it does not take long before the plants become strongly anchored on their own.


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## EdTheEdge (Jan 25, 2007)

*Flourite + Flourish Tabs*


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## RachPreach (Jan 16, 2006)

wow....that big and red...


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## tusk (Jan 30, 2006)

I just bought 10 bags of Eco the other week (too bad I had already bought 4 bags of SMS).


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## fshfanatic (Apr 20, 2006)

I have regular sand in my 125 Tanganyikan tank, ADA in my 180 planted Jardini tank and ADA in my PICO


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## Moss Man (Jun 24, 2007)

It really depends which tank. Many of my tanks have regular gravel, sand or a combination, but my planted tanks have florabase and Eco-conmplete, so I voted 'enriched gravel with nutrients'.


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## riva (Apr 12, 2007)

I called the socal Lesco place and they would not order the charcoal. According to the guy I spoke with its an eastern US only thing and I would have to pay ~50$ shipping to get it here. For me I'd rather drive down the street and buy Shultz rather than drive an hour away just for red Lesco stuff. 

I mixed up some Flourite and Shultz and I prefer it to either one by itself. The Flourite is kind of annoying in how bright and contrasty it is. The shultz is a boring monochrome. Mixed it looks a little better. But if you hate the red hue mixing aint gonna help..


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## yoink (Apr 21, 2005)

riva said:


> I called the socal Lesco place and they would not order the charcoal. According to the guy I spoke with its an eastern US only thing and I would have to pay ~50$ shipping to get it here. For me I'd rather drive down the street and buy Shultz rather than drive an hour away just for red Lesco stuff.


It was discussed earlier in the thread that it may be easier to order it online and not deal with the store managers at all. No shipping charges will be incured if you choose local store pick-up rather than having it shipped to your house.


yoink said:


> I've had luck twice ordering it to the store and then just picking it up. No need to talk a manager into ordering it for you. There were no extra charges, just $16 for the bag. It can be had at other places, you have to get that info from the manufacturer, oil-dri.


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## ers082881 (Jul 6, 2007)

I use Volcanit. Sometimes I think I am the only person that uses it, I never hear of anyone else having it in their tank. No complaints, very porous, great plant roots.


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## spypet (Sep 15, 2006)

Volcanit's good, but for the same money Eco-Complete may be better,
which is probably why Eco's discussed much more often than Volcanit.


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## jake (Feb 20, 2004)

I use Flourite, Eco Complete, and pool filter sand... not all in the same tank. 

I'll be trying out the new Amazonia Aqua Soil II when I can.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

I use SMS and Eco, still have a tank with play sand that grows fairly well, but I feel it was a mistake using it, should have at least went with pool filter sand.


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## AlGee (Sep 7, 2006)

Spypet have you tried ordering SMS yet? I would like to order a bag but have the same concerns as you do.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

I think all the Lesco distributors are going to be different, good or bad. I was never charged anything for shipment, I ordered one unit on the site for local pick up. However, I never received any type of follow up from them as stated when ordering, so I sat around for a few weeks before calling, turned out the bag was sitting down the road from me the whole time. You can also check the local distributors' stock on the website (how I figured out they had already shipped it).


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## Werdna (Nov 3, 2006)

*Waste?*

Don't waste your money on substrate unless you are going to have rooted plants.

If you only have java ferns and some najas grass or other floating plants, just dose Flourish instead of buying substrate.

I bought 3 bags of Flourite for my 75 gallon to grow microsword and other groundcover.

Andrew


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## Plecosterone (Jul 17, 2007)

I use just regular play sand and have had no problems. I used to use tabs but stopped and have seen no difference. Water column ferts and CO2 are used.


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## Scottio (Oct 23, 2006)

I just set up a tank with ADA AS, best substrate I've used so far. The grains have this weight to them that can't be described easily. I tried planting HC in my Flourite previously, and I'd find it floating on the surface a couple days later. You stick something down in AS and it stays. 

Anyway I think part of the reason also lies in the fact that plants start rooting themselves so quickly after you plant them there is no time for anything to disturb them to uproot in the first place.

My tank is literally 1 week old.

The HC, Blyxa, and even the downoi has sent out roots into the soil already. The hairgrass which has been in there for less days are already sending runners. My L. 'cuba' has grown more than an inch and don't get me started on the rotalas--I ordered the R. 'green'(which came green) but this shows me they lied--.

Amazing stuff


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## JohnInFlorida (May 2, 2007)

Here's my experience with Lesco/SMS. Dealing direct with the website, selecting delivery to the local store, no muss, no fuss, no huhu. And inexpensive as well.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/f...select-charcoal-jacksonville-orange-park.html

Keep Smilin'
John :icon_smil


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Plecosterone said:


> I use just regular play sand and have had no problems. I used to use tabs but stopped and have seen no difference. Water column ferts and CO2 are used.


Same here, no more tabs and everything is AOK. I have a hard time getting a carpet to grow in it though, have tried HC and microsword but no dice, growth is too sparse to really be a carpet. I don't know if it's nutrients or grain size, but tabs never made a difference for me there.


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## chasedafish (Jul 26, 2007)

*gravel vs sand???*

I have had gravel, i liked it but have never used sand and want to... anyone have any feed back on what to buy to get started with sand?:icon_smil


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## riva (Apr 12, 2007)

yoink said:


> It was discussed earlier in the thread that it may be easier to order it online and not deal with the store managers at all. No shipping charges will be incured if you choose local store pick-up rather than having it shipped to your house.



Well thats what I was talking about. Fifty bucks to ship to the local Lesco dealer. No joke thats what the Lesco dealer said. I did end up ordering online anyway willing to risk a $50 shipping charge, but apparently they just canceled my order. Very strange people.


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