# Oto Catfish death, do they NEED to be kept in Schools?



## DesignZ (Aug 14, 2014)

Hello guys!
I bought recently 2 otos at my local petland discount and since they only had 2, I decided to pick up the pair. A couple days later, I decided to head towards a distant petsmart and pick up another since I had to pick up some ghost shrimps. :help: In less than 48 hours of getting him the oto from petsmart died, he looked older and was bigger than the original two otos. My question is, do they need to be kept in 3+ or can I just have the two otos hanging out and will they be fine? They school together and dart around constantly and eat, the petsmart one ate a little but never really schooled with them and I think he was recently shipped to the store. Please let me know guys, thanks!


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## Betta132 (Nov 29, 2012)

Two should be all right. Otos aren't technically schoolers, but they do prefer other otos around. It keeps them happier. 
I would suggest you pick up a couple more if you can, but it isn't crucial. 
Also, Petland isn't really a nice store. Puppy mill suppliers and such.


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## DesignZ (Aug 14, 2014)

Betta132 said:


> Two should be all right. Otos aren't technically schoolers, but they do prefer other otos around. It keeps them happier.
> I would suggest you pick up a couple more if you can, but it isn't crucial.
> Also, Petland isn't really a nice store. Puppy mill suppliers and such.


Yeah, the two I got were there for a week before the next shipment. And I keep reading 3 is a MUST. Surprisingly they are healthy, young and love the tank. The Petsmart oto....well....he died in less than 48 hours....and one minute he was swimming around a bit. Lethargic though, the next he's curled up floating on top of the tank under my frogbit T_T..... What's up with the rule of 3? I've seen people keep just one. and my tank is a 6.6 nano with shrimps in the setup. May add a betta back into the mix. Not sure yet.


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## AquaAurora (Jul 10, 2013)

Was the now dead ones stomach plump, level with its body, or caved in when you got it? Did you drip acclimate them in or just float and empty the bag into the tank? Do you use co2, if so do you also use an airstone(s)?  temp, pH? Any algae like diatoms visible in the tank before they were added?


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## DesignZ (Aug 14, 2014)

AquaAurora said:


> Was the now dead ones stomach plump, level with its body, or caved in when you got it? Did you drip acclimate them in or just float and empty bag in the tank? Do you use co2, if so do you also use an airstone(s)? temp, pH? Any algae like diatoms visible in the tank before they were added?


the stomach was level with its body both when I got it and as it passed. I acclimated him slowly, no drip acclimation and was perfectly fine for the first day. No co2, or airstone but I have surface agitation with my filter. Temp is 76, and ph is at 7. One shrimp died yesterday, the day before today when he died and took both out immediately. Diatoms were in the tank (for the 2 there was alot, afterwards there were still some for the one that passed and was more than enough). Is it okay if the two can stay together or is 3 a MUST as I've been hearing, thanks so much for the help!


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## AquaAurora (Jul 10, 2013)

Ok so some of the more obvious means of death are cleared/canceled out (though I prefer a drip acclimation but that's just a personal preference). 
2 otos can live together fine, it's better than just 1, but does not _have _to be 3. I have 2 in my 7g with a betta and a ton of plants. They are simply more comfortable and active in larger groups, the more the better (as tank size allows)


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## DesignZ (Aug 14, 2014)

AquaAurora said:


> Ok so some of the more obvious means of death are cleared/canceled out (though I prefer a drip acclimation but that's just a personal preference).
> 2 otos can live together fine, it's better than just 1, but does not _have _to be 3. I have 2 in my 7g with a betta and a ton of plants. They are simply more comfortable and active in larger groups, the more the better (as tank size allows)


Yeah, I figured as they just got their new shipment in and I just decided to risk it since it was only a dollar and change might as well since I heard of the 3 rule. Would having just 2 have any complications. I would love to do the drip method but have no means of figuring out where to get the supplies etc for it. I have the two with 20+ ghost shrimp and may add a betta. Tank is moderately planted and keeps growing. I just love the growing plants and want to have a carpet eventually, but my impatience is getting the best of me:icon_twis


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## AquaAurora (Jul 10, 2013)

DesignZ said:


> Yeah, I figured as they just got their new shipment in and I just decided to risk it since it was only a dollar and change might as well since I heard of the 3 rule. Would having just 2 have any complications. I would love to do the drip method but have no means of figuring out where to get the supplies etc for it. I have the two with 20+ ghost shrimp and may add a betta. Tank is moderately planted and keeps growing. I just love the growing plants and want to have a carpet eventually, but my impatience is getting the best of me:icon_twis


How big is the tank? 2 is fine in smaller tanks, though something big 30g+ should have a few more (imo). All you need for a drip acclimation comes with a air pump purchase (at least the whisper air pump includes them): air line hosing and a valve to control air flow to your air stone (instead used to control water drip), then you just need a bowl/whatever to hold them or the prop the bag they come in up.


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## DesignZ (Aug 14, 2014)

AquaAurora said:


> How big is the tank? 2 is fine in smaller tanks, though something big 30g+ should have a few more (imo). All you need for a drip acclimation comes with a air pump purchase (at least the whisper air pump includes them): air line hosing and a valve to control air flow to your air stone (instead used to control water drip), then you just need a bowl/whatever to hold them or the prop the bag they come in up.


I have a air pump yes, with the tubing but no control to it, and its 6.6 gallons.


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## AquaAurora (Jul 10, 2013)

I would keep it at 2 otos in that sized tank.


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## msjinkzd (May 12, 2007)

um, otos are most DEFINITELY schoolers, they school like tetras when housed in proper groups. Often folks like to keep them singly or in small groups, which makes them withdrawn, less active, and not nearly as much fun to keep. Just because they survive being kept alone or in small groups, doesn't mean they should.


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## DesignZ (Aug 14, 2014)

AquaAurora said:


> I would keep it at 2 otos in that sized tank.


Thanks man!



msjinkzd said:


> um, otos are most DEFINITELY schoolers, they school like tetras when housed in proper groups. Often folks like to keep them singly or in small groups, which makes them withdrawn, less active, and not nearly as much fun to keep. Just because they survive being kept alone or in small groups, doesn't mean they should.


So...what should I do?


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## water-kitties (Mar 19, 2013)

DesignZ said:


> Thanks man!
> 
> 
> 
> So...what should I do?


Wait for a sale on oto's, if you have a petsmart they do them a lot. Try asking when the fish shipments come in and go on that day or the next. The otto I received that way from Petsmart were very healthy and full of energy. I would recommend if you have a quarentine tank to let them rest after brining them home at first and make sure they get some nice blanched zucchini to fatten them up again. 

There is a big difference in behavior when in a group, very cute. I have 5 and they hang out and follow each other and seem far happier than before when my old otos buddy died and he was alone. I would really advise you to try to get a group if possible, even a few.


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## DesignZ (Aug 14, 2014)

water-kitties said:


> Wait for a sale on oto's, if you have a petsmart they do them a lot. Try asking when the fish shipments come in and go on that day or the next. The otto I received that way from Petsmart were very healthy and full of energy. I would recommend if you have a quarentine tank to let them rest after brining them home at first and make sure they get some nice blanched zucchini to fatten them up again.
> 
> There is a big difference in behavior when in a group, very cute. I have 5 and they hang out and follow each other and seem far happier than before when my old otos buddy died and he was alone. I would really advise you to try to get a group if possible, even a few.


I did that on the day after they received shipment. That otto is RIP now. I have the two and was curious if it'd be detrimental. My tank is 6.6 gallons


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## kidgrave (Feb 4, 2014)

Most Otos die and don't make it because they are not properly fed. In fact, most people don't know how to balance out their diet. They are easy to keep when you feed them well. Otos should be having a fat belly. If they are skinny from their belly, it means they have not been fed well. Most of their diet consists of algae; however, you can supplement this by feeding them algae waffers. You can also feed them spinach or zucchini, but you have to put it in the microwave and blend it in a bit. Just make sure that you let the vegetable cool down a bit. I feed my 2 Otos on my 10 gallon fish tank zucchini every 2 days or so. Their bellies are fat.


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## DesignZ (Aug 14, 2014)

kidgrave said:


> Most Otos die and don't make it because they are not properly fed. In fact, most people don't know how to balance out their diet. They are easy to keep when you feed them well. Otos should be having a fat belly. If they are skinny from their belly, it means they have not been fed well. Most of their diet consists of algae; however, you can supplement this by feeding them algae waffers. You can also feed them spinach or zucchini, but you have to put it in the microwave and blend it in a bit. Just make sure that you let the vegetable cool down a bit. I feed my 2 Otos on my 10 gallon fish tank zucchini every 2 days or so. Their bellies are fat.


Yup I got em algae wafers they barely touch, just the remnants. the ghost shrimp get most of it. My otos bellies are round so thats no problem. The one that died, well I'm not sure got him and didn't last too long.


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## kidgrave (Feb 4, 2014)

Maybe the oto was already in bad condition because usually the ones sold see wild cought. They are delicate fish. I think the amano shrimp wasn't letting your oto eat his food. I advise to feed them zucchini instead. This works very well for me and I don't have to worry about amano shrimp eating it. Just put the zucchini tiny piece in the microwave for about 30-35 seconds, let it cool down, and then stick it somewhere in between the plants. 

Did you test for ammonia or nitrite?


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## DesignZ (Aug 14, 2014)

kidgrave said:


> Maybe the oto was already in bad condition because usually the ones sold see wild cought. They are delicate fish. I think the amano shrimp wasn't letting your oto eat his food. I advise to feed them zucchini instead. This works very well for me and I don't have to worry about amano shrimp eating it. Just put the zucchini tiny piece in the microwave for about 30-35 seconds, let it cool down, and then stick it somewhere in between the plants.
> 
> Did you test for ammonia or nitrite?


i have no amanos, they're ghosts and the algae wafer is large so no probs there. how long can it be kept in the tank? I know what to feed it, thanks for the heads up w cook time as I was just planning to use algae wafers plus I didn't wanna go through the trouble of blanching it aha


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## msjinkzd (May 12, 2007)

look at the ingredients on the algae wafers, almost all those on the market are made mostly from fish meal, not algae. There are better quality wafers and foods entering the market that are more appropriate (Paradigm is a company that is making some great new foods for herbivores and omnivores).


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

I have had good results with San Francisco Bay's "seaweed salad" . I have offered it and it was well received by livebearer fry,juvenile bristlenose,oto's,and once raised some discus that would rip it from the vege -clip stuck to the tank.
Can find much cheaper version of it from Asian food Isle at Walmart in the form of Sushi Nori dried seaweed.
Comes in small plastic Ziploc type bag with approx. 200 sheets of the stuff for maybe three bucks.


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## Lonestarbandit (Feb 7, 2013)

roadmaster said:


> I have had good results with San Francisco Bay's "seaweed salad" . I have offered it and it was well received by livebearer fry,juvenile bristlenose,oto's,and once raised some discus that would rip it from the vege -clip stuck to the tank.
> Can find much cheaper version of it from Asian food Isle at Walmart in the form of Sushi Nori dried seaweed.
> Comes in small plastic Ziploc type bag with approx. 200 sheets of the stuff for maybe three bucks.


But then I would eat it all myself (Burp*) :smile:


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## DesignZ (Aug 14, 2014)

msjinkzd said:


> look at the ingredients on the algae wafers, almost all those on the market are made mostly from fish meal, not algae. There are better quality wafers and foods entering the market that are more appropriate (Paradigm is a company that is making some great new foods for herbivores and omnivores).


I got Top Fin Algae Thins with spirulina algae and protein. It has algae meal as well as fish meal. Do you have a recommended brand or is this good?



roadmaster said:


> I have had good results with San Francisco Bay's "seaweed salad" . I have offered it and it was well received by livebearer fry,juvenile bristlenose,oto's,and once raised some discus that would rip it from the vege -clip stuck to the tank.
> Can find much cheaper version of it from Asian food Isle at Walmart in the form of Sushi Nori dried seaweed.
> Comes in small plastic Ziploc type bag with approx. 200 sheets of the stuff for maybe three bucks.


So...any type of seaweed works?


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## AquaMD (Nov 29, 2012)

I have had a single one in my take for well over a year, he does fine on his own.


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

San Francisco bay brand "sally's seaweed salad" Petco or Yamamoto Sushi Nori from Walmart (either or).


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## DesignZ (Aug 14, 2014)

AquaMD said:


> I have had a single one in my take for well over a year, he does fine on his own.


Thanks for the heads up!



roadmaster said:


> San Francisco bay brand "sally's seaweed salad" Petco or Yamamoto Sushi Nori from Walmart (either or).


Thanks for the tip, so not all seaweed works I assume


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## Solcielo lawrencia (Dec 30, 2013)

kidgrave said:


> Most Otos die and don't make it because they are not properly fed. In fact, most people don't know how to balance out their diet. They are easy to keep when you feed them well. Otos should be having a fat belly. If they are skinny from their belly, it means they have not been fed well. Most of their diet consists of algae; however, you can supplement this by feeding them algae waffers. You can also feed them spinach or zucchini, but you have to put it in the microwave and blend it in a bit. Just make sure that you let the vegetable cool down a bit. I feed my 2 Otos on my 10 gallon fish tank zucchini every 2 days or so. Their bellies are fat.


I agree with this. Starvation is the most common cause of death for Oto's. The moment you added the third Oto, the very limited food available just became even more limited. So it appears that 2 is the current maximum for your tank. They rarely eat algae wafers but will eat fruits (blueberries, grapes) and zucchini slices.


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## jrill (Nov 20, 2013)

Solcielo lawrencia said:


> I agree with this. Starvation is the most common cause of death for Oto's. The moment you added the third Oto, the very limited food available just became even more limited. So it appears that 2 is the current maximum for your tank. They rarely eat algae wafers but will eat fruits (blueberries, grapes) and zucchini slices.


I would disagree with the alga wafer statement. Mine always have in any of my tanks.


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## MountainPool (Jul 13, 2014)

DesignZ said:


> I have a air pump yes, with the tubing but no control to it, and its 6.6 gallons.


There's a quick and dirty method for drip acclimation:

Get a bucket, a tub that fits inside the picket and a plastic sandwich bag.
Put the fish and the pet shop water in the tub and place in the bucket, then fill the sandwich bag with tank water.
Tie the bag to the bucket's handle, so it hangs over the tub and pop a tiny hole in the bag so it drips slowly into the tub.
Once the bag is mostly empty, hey presto! Drip acclimated fish, no siphon, or valves required.


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## DesignZ (Aug 14, 2014)

Solcielo lawrencia said:


> I agree with this. Starvation is the most common cause of death for Oto's. The moment you added the third Oto, the very limited food available just became even more limited. So it appears that 2 is the current maximum for your tank. They rarely eat algae wafers but will eat fruits (blueberries, grapes) and zucchini slices.


Food was not a problem, I had a diatom bloom along with algae waefers which are now being eaten. They disappear and the otos I have now are belly bump galoree.



jrill said:


> I would disagree with the alga wafer statement. Mine always have in any of my tanks.


Mine have started.



MountainPool said:


> There's a quick and dirty method for drip acclimation:
> 
> Get a bucket, a tub that fits inside the picket and a plastic sandwich bag.
> Put the fish and the pet shop water in the tub and place in the bucket, then fill the sandwich bag with tank water.
> ...


Sounds like I'll give it a shot! Sounds GODLIKE! How long would you suggest acclimation


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## MountainPool (Jul 13, 2014)

About an hour! Or as long as it takes a small drip to replace the water in the tub. The tub overflows, generally, hence the bucket.
I let my guppies and RCS have two hours, because the room was nice and warm; didn't have to worry about them cooling off at all.


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## DesignZ (Aug 14, 2014)

MountainPool said:


> About an hour! Or as long as it takes a small drip to replace the water in the tub. The tub overflows, generally, hence the bucket.
> I let my guppies and RCS have two hours, because the room was nice and warm; didn't have to worry about them cooling off at all.


I thought fish can't live in a bag for more than an hour aha, thought it was a general rule.


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## MountainPool (Jul 13, 2014)

There _is_ a trade off, between how gradual the acclimation is, and the build up of ammonia and CO2, and depletion of oxygen in the bag water.

But, bear in mind that fish can be transported overnight by courier! I live an hour's drive from the nearest fish store, so I get a lot of things delivered, and did a lot of research into how ethical that is, how safe. It turns out that a calm fish with a large air pocket in its bag can live in aprox. 500ml of water without the ammonia building up to harmful levels for about 12 hours, maybe more. I didn't test it, for obvious reasons. 

The drip acclimation process provides a steady stream of ammonia and nitrIte free, highly oxygenated water, too, making the transition much easier on the new fish even if they're coming from pretty poor water quality. 

Look out for diseases though! I've just had a battle with callamanus worms, and the war isn't over yet. If you have the capacity, quarantine new fish for a month so you can observe their condition for diseases that might hurt the rest of your stock. If you cant quarantine, have a few medications on hand for treating the big three: bacteria, fungus's and parasites.


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## DesignZ (Aug 14, 2014)

MountainPool said:


> There _is_ a trade off, between how gradual the acclimation is, and the build up of ammonia and CO2, and depletion of oxygen in the bag water.
> 
> But, bear in mind that fish can be transported overnight by courier! I live an hour's drive from the nearest fish store, so I get a lot of things delivered, and did a lot of research into how ethical that is, how safe. It turns out that a calm fish with a large air pocket in its bag can live in aprox. 500ml of water without the ammonia building up to harmful levels for about 12 hours, maybe more. I didn't test it, for obvious reasons.
> 
> ...


Got bacteria prevention always with some IAL. I do not have a quarantine thank however I am converting my unused 10 gal to a plant grower tank once my apple snails die off.


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## yellabelly (Mar 24, 2014)

SODS. 
Sudden Otto death syndrome. 
There might not be any rhyme or reason they die off so quickly. I have purchased probably 20 in the past few years and quite a few passed within the first few days for NO reason. 
I brought home 5 from a reputable mom/pop store and 2 died within 2 days and the others began laying eggs that quickly hatched giving me at least 20 fry. 
I still have the last 3 and a few fry survived to adulthood surprisingly considering my tank is not baby friendly and i never moved them to a fry basket. 
If they survive the week then they will be around for a while. Thats often why they are only $1.00 at petsmart.


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## DesignZ (Aug 14, 2014)

Aha, they're $1 and change with membership, without you're looking at $3 inflation of the :fish1: but anyways, yeah I researched about them and the general reason is stress or being wild caught.


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