# t5 vs cfls



## Cbwmn (Nov 30, 2007)

I built an oak hood for my 46g BF and used the A&H 96 watt Bright kit.
I’m very happy with the result.
Here’s the website:
www.ahsupply.com/
Good luck,
Charles


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

A 55 gallon tank is 48 inches long, so people normally use 48 inch ( a bit shorter, actually) T5 lights on them. Unfortunately, even one T5HO light gives high light intensity on a 55 gallon tank. That means you need to start with pressurized CO2 if you want to use T5HO lights. Or, you can use a hanging light fixture, one hanging several inches above the top of the tank, which reduces the intensity enough to let you use T5HO lights. 55 gallon tanks are only about a foot from front to back,, so a single bulb can light the substrate pretty evenly, but by hanging it even higher, you can use two bulbs if you wish. Really the only reason to go this route is if you feel pretty sure you will later want to grow plants that do better with higher light intensity, and know you will be getting a pressurized CO2 system, too. 

Of course you could still use T5HO light, but put a diffuser material between the light and the tank, but that kind of defeats the purpose of using the really bright lights.


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## VisionQuest28 (Apr 18, 2007)

I think you could use t5's without individual reflectors and that would be fine without having to use a diffuser. But again, that kind of defeats the benefits of T5's. Im not sure that i would agree that one t5 would bring you up to high light levels in 55 though (although knowing Hoppy he has plenty of data to support that claim! lol) But you probably wouldnt get an even light spread with just one bulb...

If you went with CF's...why would you use 8 smaller bulbs??? Holy headache and expensive!!! haha You could easily use just a couple different larger bulbs.

Given the choice between the 2, i would choose T5's any day. I think they are FAR superior in every way.


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## Kayen (Oct 14, 2007)

T5's , and if you dig around they aren't that much more expensive than CF's in the higher ranges. Less bulbs to replace, higher intensity, and more efficient.


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## [email protected] (Jul 17, 2008)

For DIY, go T5, unless you already have free surface mount light fixtures.
One thing to keep in mind though, sometimes the cost of the parts for DIY comes close to the cost of a commercial light fixture.

For instance, http://www.reefgeek.com/lighting/Parts_&_Accessories/DIY-Replacement_Parts/T5_Fluorescent/ 
lists T5 sockets. The better sockets are $9.95 a pair. Then there is the ballast. Since they will be close in price, get a HO capable ballast. Now you'll need stand offs to keep the hotter tubes away from the top of your canopy. Individual reflectors direct more light down, and help with heat dissipation but they cost ~$20.00 each. 

So, until you are ready for higher light, I'm going to suggest you put a ~$15.00 shop light in your canopy. 

Or consider a two tube T5 strip light such as this one from Lowes at $48.00
UtiliTech 2-Light 46" Utility Fluorescent Strips
Item #: 252800 Model: GL9846-T5-WHES-I

Or this one from Home Depot at $34.99
Lithonia Lighting Mini Strip 2 Lamp Utility Light
Model # MNS5 2 28 LP Internet/Catalog # 100654408 
Store SKU# 802508 

Neither is HO, but they work.


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## alindeman1989 (Aug 9, 2009)

for the lowes 2 tube set up can i run t5ho in it? also how many wpg would a single t5ho be?


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## paulrw (Apr 14, 2009)

i bought 2 lithonia 2bulb t5's from Lowe's for my 55g 35$ each it fit great and i had great results the only problem was the bulbs that came with the were about 3500k very very orange but after replacing them i was quite happy i broke down my 55 now i use just 2 bulbs over a 30g a total of 56w but really only about 36w over the tank do to the tank only being 30in long i grow java moss, melon sword, moneywort and banana plants and strangely pothos submerged


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## paulrw (Apr 14, 2009)

you can use ho bulbs in a non ho fixture but you will only get 28w a ho fixture will run at 54w


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## alindeman1989 (Aug 9, 2009)

so the lights will prob be about 8 inchs off the waters surface. i was wondering can someone link me to a good bang of the buck t5ho fixture? one bulb or 2? what wpg would i get from a 1 bulb and what from a 2? sorry bare with me im a noob. lol


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## paulrw (Apr 14, 2009)

I'd check ebay or big Al's or drsfostersmith.com you would get about 1 wpg with 1 bulb but the wpg rule is out dated it was based on t12 bulbs t5s are much more efficient look at it like a t12 48in bulb runs at about 40w a t5 normal output runs at 28w and is brighter and crisper read more about lighting on this forum there a lot of great info


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## alindeman1989 (Aug 9, 2009)

so get a 2 bulb t5ho fixture?


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## alindeman1989 (Aug 9, 2009)

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=19759
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=19811
how are those?


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## paulrw (Apr 14, 2009)

do yourself a favor and get a 15$ shop light from Lowe's or a cheap set of t5 normal output get some 6500k bulbs and invest your money in pressurized co2. I'm still a noob at this but i made the same mistake and got a huge algae problem co2 is important and probably ferts next then worry about lights. just my thoughts though. good luck!


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## alindeman1989 (Aug 9, 2009)

lol i know thats next on my list of goodies. to bad c02 is like 300 bucks. but i have it on my wish list. so next pay check will be going twords co2 stuff. anyone have a link to a decently priced co2 kit?


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## VisionQuest28 (Apr 18, 2007)

paulrw said:


> i bought 2 lithonia 2bulb t5's from Lowe's for my 55g 35$ each it fit great and i had great results the only problem was the bulbs that came with the were about 3500k very very orange but after replacing them i was quite happy i broke down my 55 now i use just 2 bulbs over a 30g a total of 56w but really only about 36w over the tank do to the tank only being 30in long i grow java moss, melon sword, moneywort and banana plants *and strangely pothos submerged*


Like...totally submerged??? I have pothos growing on each end of my 37g non planted, with just the roots submerged. I do this just to try soak up some of the nutrients in the tank, and idk...it adds some life it looks purty. lol But totally submerged? How long has it been growing like that? Sorry for the thread jack...


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## paulrw (Apr 14, 2009)

to visionquest: probably about a month and a half its got a few leaves on the surface and the leaves on the strands are much smaller than normal


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## alindeman1989 (Aug 9, 2009)

so im looking at the co2 systems, and was wonderin after i get them what lighting should i get. like how many wpg with the t5ho?


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

alindeman1989 said:


> so im looking at the co2 systems, and was wonderin after i get them what lighting should i get. like how many wpg with the t5ho?


Don't even think about watts per gallon. If you want relatively high light T5 is a good choice. Get one with tubes that are about the same length as the tank. If the tank is more than about 12 inches front to back depth, use two tubes, to get better uniformity of light at the substrate. With one tube, the light should be about 22-23 inches above the substrate. With two tubes, try to hang the light about 28 inches above the substrate. Don't consider more than 2 tubes, unless the tank has a front to back depth of around 24 inches or more, then 3 tubes is enough, and they should be separated by about 8-10 inches.


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## alindeman1989 (Aug 9, 2009)

thanks man, well looks like i know where my next pay check is going lol.


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## VisionQuest28 (Apr 18, 2007)

I would just like to point out again... if you're using T5's its all about the individual reflectors, thats where they really shine...PUN INTENDED! lol Without those individual reflectors its not even close to as good as it could be, still definitely better than regular fluorescent, but not all that and then some. I hate to disagree with hoppy, but everything he says is true with individual reflectors, with out... dont think its even close. They make a HUGE difference!

Almost all of the cheaper fixtures out right now dont have them, so watch for that as you're shopping around. You can piece together a diy system for not too bad, and there are a few retrofit kits that you can buy. Also many decent priced fixtures, you just have to decide if you want to go high light or not.

My vote is still certainly with T5's. If it was me personally i would put together a diy system with OUT reflectors. Then you can always add reflectors later on, if and when you go with a pressurized co2 system.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

You can buy the reflectors separately, too. So, for lower light, using T5HO without reflectors might be a good idea. I don't know for sure how much more light you get with the reflectors, but I suspect it at least doubles the light. I think I recall one advertisement saying the reflector gives 2 1/2 times more light per bulb. Big difference!


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## alindeman1989 (Aug 9, 2009)

if my lightin fixture does not come with the reflectors where can i buy them?


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## alindeman1989 (Aug 9, 2009)

can i run these reflectors with this fixture?
reflector:http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=19811
fixture:http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=19759
do they come in bigger sized for the duel?


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## alindeman1989 (Aug 9, 2009)

does the fixture come with the reflectors you guys are talking about?


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## VisionQuest28 (Apr 18, 2007)

alindeman1989 said:


> can i run these reflectors with this fixture?
> reflector:http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=19811
> fixture:http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=19759
> do they come in bigger sized for the duel?


Im not sure if the reflectors will fit into that fixture or not? Maybe somebody else will chime in. Even though alot of fixture arent designed with reflectors, sometimes with a little bit of modding you can get them in...sometimes you cant. Sorry to be so vague.

But the first link you posted was for a diy retrofit kit. You buy the kit, then you have to buy the bulbs and reflectors if you choose to. Thats what i was talking about. You can get set up with decent lighting first, and then buy reflectors later on if the need arises, i.e.... not enough light, wanting to go higher light, adding pressurized co2, etc. 

There may be better options out there as far as quality and price if you research some, but what you posted probably isnt too bad either.


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## VisionQuest28 (Apr 18, 2007)

If i was going to buy a fixture WITH reflectors this is what i would buy right now... http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+13822+16770&pcatid=16770 . I dont think there is another fixture available that comes with individual reflectors for that price. I have never seen these in action, but on paper atleast...i think thats a tremendous deal! You would want the 48" freshwater fixture, last one on the list...thats just over $100.

fishneedit.com has good priced lighting and reefgeek.com is/was my source to go to when i was putting together my diy T5 lighting. Spend some time reading and browsing there AND other places. It can be confusing and even slightly over whelming at first, but arm yourself with some knowledge... you will be much better off and happy you did im sure!


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## Cbwmn (Nov 30, 2007)

Has anyone here tried the retrofit kits from A&H?
They sell complete T5 kits, ballasts, reflectors, etc.
www.ahsupply.com/

Charles


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

http://www.reefgeek.com/lighting/T5_Fluorescent/AquaIllumination/Miro-4_Reflectors/ are the reflectors that much of the reputation of T5HO lighting comes from. Since they clip on to the bulb they would fit any fixture that has enough room around the bulb for them.

The Nova fixtures have the bulbs as close together as the can get them, which isn't good when you want to use multiple bulbs to get better uniformity of the light. We rarely will need to use 2 T5HO bulbs just to get twice the intensity - only if the fixture is up around 30 inches from the substrate, in fact.

The AH Supply lighting kits are not linear T5HO fixtures, but bent or parallel tube PC fixtures, and they have great reflectors, but not the single tube reflectors that are most effective.


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## VisionQuest28 (Apr 18, 2007)

Hoppy said:


> The Nova fixtures have the bulbs as close together as the can get them, which isn't good when you want to use multiple bulbs to get better uniformity of the light. We rarely will need to use 2 T5HO bulbs just to get twice the intensity - only if the fixture is up around 30 inches from the substrate, in fact.


Have you actually seen the new SLR Nova fixtures Hoppy? I havent at all, so im just wondering how they are? Are the reflectors smaller and much different from the icecap and tek light slr's, if the bulbs are that close together?


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## gdcox76 (Jul 19, 2009)

I purchased a T5HO fixture from Catalina Aquarium http://www.catalinaaquarium.com 
I ordered it by phone and it came in less than a week, since I'm in Canada I thought that was really decent. These fixtures DO have individual reflectors. I believe I got the recommendation for Catalina from others here. I haven't got my tank setup yet but from what I can see it looks like a very decent fixture. The 48" 2 bulb fixture is $125 and comes with bulbs.


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## BottomFeeder (Jul 26, 2008)

VisionQuest28 said:


> Have you actually seen the new SLR Nova fixtures Hoppy? I havent at all, so im just wondering how they are? Are the reflectors smaller and much different from the icecap and tek light slr's, if the bulbs are that close together?


There is less than an inch between the two bulbs in the SLR Nova Extreme fixtures. The bulbs have separate reflectors so it is pretty tight in there.


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## alindeman1989 (Aug 9, 2009)

what bulbs do you guys recommend?


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## alindeman1989 (Aug 9, 2009)

so with co2 i can run 2 t5s or should i gtet 4?


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

Hoppy said:


> Unfortunately, even one T5HO light gives high light intensity on a 55 gallon tank. That means you need to start with pressurized CO2 if you want to use T5HO lights.


Can you substantiate that? 54w T5 on a 55g is high light and requires co2? 
That seems highly implausible. I've ran 2x54 on a 75g with no issues.



alindeman1989 said:


> so with co2 i can run 2 t5s or should i gtet 4?


2 will work, but you should get 4 (if you can afford it), and then just burst the second bank of lights for 2-4 hrs halfway through the photoperiod.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

macclellan said:


> Can you substantiate that? 54w T5 on a 55g is high light and requires co2?
> That seems highly implausible. I've ran 2x54 on a 75g with no issues.
> 
> 
> 2 will work, but you should get 4 (if you can afford it), and then just burst the second bank of lights for 2-4 hrs halfway through the photoperiod.


A year or two ago I was reading where people used a single T5HO 54 watt light on their 55 gallon tanks, and had good success with plants. I found that hard to believe, and started trying to figure out how that could possibly be true - less than 1 watt per gallon?

Later, I read about PAR meters, Tom Barr got one, measured several tanks with it, including ADA tanks in San Francisco and got unusually low numbers on the ADA tanks, further stimulating my thinking. I borrowed his meter and made some measurements myself, discovering to my embarrassment that the light from almost every light drops with the square of the distance from the light, something I totally disbelieved before.

Eventually, others began submitting data from PAR measurements in aquariums, leading me to finally get enough data to figure out how to use T5HO lights. From that I learned that any T5HO light 2 feet or longer gives about 50 micromols of PAR at about 22 inches below the light, which rapidly becomes high light just a few inches above the substrate. Two bulbs, mounted close together, as they are in typical fixtures, gives about double that much light, which is high light right at the substrate level, but higher in the tank, the intensity is much, much higher.

That is where I came up with that statement.


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## alindeman1989 (Aug 9, 2009)

so 2 then hoppy? or 4 lol. im so lost sorry lol. get the dyi or a fixture?


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

Hoppy, I've measured PAR with T5s on my 75g, and much else besides. At 21" with 4x54w (catalina fixture with stock bulbs, 2x67k, 2x10k), it measured 90 micromols. I've run 2 bulbs on that tank without co2 for awhile. I am very confident that 1x54w on a moderately to heavily planted 55g would be just fine without co2. Just because a bulb gives off "high light" near the surface doesn't mean that a tank will need co2 to not get algae.



VisionQuest28 said:


> Have you actually seen the new SLR Nova fixtures Hoppy? I havent at all, so im just wondering how they are? Are the reflectors smaller and much different from the icecap and tek light slr's, if the bulbs are that close together?


I've seen them. They don't compare to teks (crammed in, less angles to the reflectors), but the Nova SLRs are nicer than the pre-SLR Novas. I wouldn't worry about it too much with planted tanks, but reefs are another story.


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## alindeman1989 (Aug 9, 2009)

so if i mount the lights on my canapy 9 inchs rouly above the water will i need 2or 4 lights?


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## alindeman1989 (Aug 9, 2009)

also what bulbs you recommend?


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

Pardon the directness, but how much money do you want to spend?

A good compromise option between 2 and 4: Catalina Aquariums (I can't say enough good things about them, for the price) has a 3x54w fixture for just $139 _with bulbs_. It's pretty hard to beat that. The lights are still in 2 banks, so you could do 1x for part of the day then 3x, or 2x then 3x, or 1x then 2x, etc. if you have two timers or a controller. They are in Cali, so shipping should be cheap.


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## alindeman1989 (Aug 9, 2009)

yeah im in cali and want to spend around 175. arnt the controllors like hella bank. so if i have timers i can just do that? how does that work doesnt the light fixture only have one cord?


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## alindeman1989 (Aug 9, 2009)

i just looked at there web site and didnt see any 3 light ones. link?


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

Right there linked off the main page: 
http://www.catalinaaquarium.com/product_info.php?products_id=1638

It has two cords. Just use two timers (check dollar stores, big lots etc.) and stagger them to fit your needs. Controllers are $100 and up.

This is good advice:


paulrw said:


> do yourself a favor and get a 15$ shop light from Lowe's or a cheap set of t5 normal output get some 6500k bulbs and invest your money in pressurized co2. I'm still a noob at this but i made the same mistake and got a huge algae problem co2 is important and probably ferts next then worry about lights. just my thoughts though. good luck!





alindeman1989 said:


> to bad c02 is like 300 bucks. but i have it on my wish list.


c02 is more like $150, but it may cost a bit more in your country, California.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

macclellan said:


> Hoppy, I've measured PAR with T5s on my 75g, and much else besides. At 21" with 4x54w (catalina fixture with stock bulbs, 2x67k, 2x10k), it measured 90 micromols. I've run 2 bulbs on that tank without co2 for awhile. I am very confident that 1x54w on a moderately to heavily planted 55g would be just fine without co2. Just because a bulb gives off "high light" near the surface doesn't mean that a tank will need co2 to not get algae.


I agree that many people are able to run high light and not have algae problems. And, some people run low light and have algae problems. Light is just part of the equation. More important, there is still a lot to learn about light for planted tanks. Fortunately I don't mind being embarrassed by being proven wrong, so I'm willing to stick my neck out and recommend based on what is still pretty limited data. If things go as they usually do in this hobby, a couple of years from now a lot of our beliefs about light will be proven not to have been correct.

When I get tired of working on my present project I think I will revisit the data I have on T5HO lighting to try to find a way to better predict the light intensity at various places in the tank for a given light. And, I hope I will have found more data by then. For me this is fun.


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

Hoppy said:


> I agree that many people are able to run high light and not have algae problems.


I meant that measuring PAR near a T5 bulb will always be high light, not that a tank illuminated by such a bulb would be a "high light" tank. A single bulb on a 120g aquarium would be very bright at the surface, but the tank would be very dim. Since I measured 90 micromols at the substrate with 4x54w, it stands to reason that 1x54w would be very low light at the substrate, far below 50 micromols. Just to see, I removed a bulb and tried 1x54w on my 75g. The tank was _very_ dim. I seriously doubt it would support a planted tank. It might work for some plants on a 55g, but it is still certainly low light, and would not require co2. That's all I've been trying to say in response to this:



Hoppy said:


> A 55 gallon tank is 48 inches long, so people normally use 48 inch ( a bit shorter, actually) T5 lights on them. Unfortunately, even one T5HO light gives high light intensity on a 55 gallon tank. That means you need to start with pressurized CO2 if you want to use T5HO lights.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

macclellan said:


> I meant that measuring PAR near a T5 bulb will always be high light, not that a tank illuminated by such a bulb would be a "high light" tank. A single bulb on a 120g aquarium would be very bright at the surface, but the tank would be very dim. Since I measured 90 micromols at the substrate with 4x54w, it stands to reason that 1x54w would be very low light at the substrate, far below 50 micromols. Just to see, I removed a bulb and tried 1x54w on my 75g. The tank was _very_ dim. I seriously doubt it would support a planted tank. It might work for some plants on a 55g, but it is still certainly low light, and would not require co2. That's all I've been trying to say in response to this:


What light fixture do you use? Probably over half of the light from T5HO light fixtures comes from reflection from the clip on individual bulb reflectors. Does your fixture use those? I know some T5HO lights give much lower intensity, but the data I have for Tek lights, Catalina lights and Ice Cap lights is pretty much the same. For sure something is different between your lights and those used for the data I have.


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## alindeman1989 (Aug 9, 2009)

man this was my first thread and i hit 4 pages. lol im so proud of my lil thread. btw guys tanks for all the help with my light woos. hey what bulbs should i run in a 3 light fixture?


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## VisionQuest28 (Apr 18, 2007)

I dont have any data to back anything up, the only thing i have is some experience with t5's, and i have to trust "my eye". I agree with macclellan on this one. I dont believe for a second that one t5 bulb, reflector or not, could possibly make a 55g a "high light" tank. I think there must be some misinterpretation of the data you have gathered. Like macclellan has said, it may be high light at the surface, but in no way will the whole tank be "well" lit.


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## FSM (Jan 13, 2009)

alindeman1989 said:


> yeah im in cali and want to spend around 175. arnt the controllors like hella bank. so if i have timers i can just do that? how does that work doesnt the light fixture only have one cord?


I paid $178 total for that same fixture including the legs, shipped to Georgia. If you want to mount it in the hood, you don't need the legs. 

They also sell retrofit kits, but those are more expensive than the fixtures (makes no sense). If you call them they may give you a cheaper price though, since a 4x54W fixture is $40 less than a 4x54W retrofit kit, the retrofit doesn't have a housing.


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

Hoppy said:


> What light fixture do you use? Probably over half of the light from T5HO light fixtures comes from reflection from the clip on individual bulb reflectors. Does your fixture use those? I know some T5HO lights give much lower intensity, but the data I have for Tek lights, Catalina lights and Ice Cap lights is pretty much the same. For sure something is different between your lights and those used for the data I have.


As I said above, I use a Catalina Aquariums fixture. Where is your data posted? I can't compare without seeing it. My fixture is on legs (approx 3"), which surely accounts for some of the difference. That said, there is nothing magic about T5s, they are just more efficient bulbs. A single 54w bulb is still just a 54w bulb. At best it is at or just above "1 WPG" in T12 terms on a 75g... still low light.



alindeman1989 said:


> man this was my first thread and i hit 4 pages. lol im so proud of my lil thread. btw guys tanks for all the help with my light woos. hey what bulbs should i run in a 3 light fixture?


I'd start with the free stock bulbs - if it ain't broke don't fix it - and if you don't like the look or are unhappy with the results, then think about changing them. Go either 2x6700k and 1x10000k (yellower) or 1x6700k and 2x10000k (bluer).


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