# Walsted method techniques



## Mxx (Dec 29, 2010)

I believe the recommended depth is 2-2.5 inches. As for the other questions, these have been answered better in previous threads than I can advise, so try the search function to find plenty of good advice about how to do this.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Mxx said:


> I believe the recommended depth is 2-2.5 inches.


2-2.5 inches of both dirt and cap. So like 1 inch of dirt and 1-1.5 inches of cap (sand is the usual). You'll probably want to aerate your substrate regardless, poking with a chopstick or something.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

The Walstad method is a very limited system, in that it works well for low light tanks. Which means you'll be limited to what you can grow based on their light and fert demand. It's also very difficult to work with in that it's dirt and it's very unforgiving if you disturb it. 

Do you have any idea of what you planning to put in the tank and if your going to really try and aquascape it?


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## Smooch (May 14, 2016)

Yes, you can use Aqua Soil. I would not use AS and potting soil together as it will lead to too much stuff in the water column. Your tank will into algae farm. Aqua Soil needs to be cycled to remove the ammonia, not sure about soil.


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## abdul (Sep 13, 2016)

geisterwald said:


> 2-2.5 inches of both dirt and cap. So like 1 inch of dirt and 1-1.5 inches of cap (sand is the usual). You'll probably want to aerate your substrate regardless, poking with a chopstick or something.


Disturb the ADA soil is not recommended as per my research.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

abdul said:


> Disturb the ADA soil is not recommended as per my research.


Note the post where it was not recommended to use ADA soil and dirt (here meaning MGOPS) together (I second that), and so was the person I quoted. You don't need to aerate ADA soil because it doesn't compact and decompose in the same way as potting soil. I was talking about MGOPS; sorry for any lack of clarity.

That said, if you use Aquasoil, you won't be following the Walstad method anymore and I don't think many of her guidelines will apply when using a different substrate.


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## abdul (Sep 13, 2016)

houseofcards said:


> The Walstad method is a very limited system, in that it works well for low light tanks. Which means you'll be limited to what you can grow based on their light and fert demand. It's also very difficult to work with in that it's dirt and it's very unforgiving if you disturb it.
> 
> Do you have any idea of what you planning to put in the tank and if your going to really try and aquascape it?


as for plants:
- Dwarf bacopa (Bacopa monnieri)
- Amazon frogbit	(Limnobium laevigatum) 
- Water sprite	(Ceratopteris thalictroides)

for stones: 
- Dymax Green Dragon Rock 
- Lava rock as a base for the Dragon rocks to avoid Anaerobic

Stock:
10 x Red Cherry Shrimp (Neocaridina heteropoda)
2 x Malaysian Trumpet Snail (Melanoides tuberculata) )
2 x Oto (Otocinclus vittatus)
5 x Discus (Symphysodon aequifasciatus)
10 x Cardinal Tetra (Paracheirodon axelrodi)
6 x Guppy (Poecilia reticulata)


I would love to aquascape. It would be my first attempt

Bump:


geisterwald said:


> Note the post where it was not recommended to use ADA soil and dirt (here meaning MGOPS) together (I second that), and so was the person I quoted. You don't need to aerate ADA soil because it doesn't compact and decompose in the same way as potting soil. I was talking about MGOPS; sorry for any lack of clarity.
> 
> That said, if you use Aquasoil, you won't be following the Walstad method anymore and I don't think many of her guidelines will apply when using a different substrate.


sorry for the confusion


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

If you're interested in actually following the Walstad method, I recommend reading Walstad's book, "Ecology of the Planted Aquarium." If you search "Walstad method" on the forum you can probably also find near-complete guidelines. It's a very specific method.

Your discus will eat your shrimp, if the shrimp even survived the hot water that discus need. I'd also imagine their need for pristine water conditions would conflict with the Walstad method or even anything coming close to a Walstad tank. I can't find any success stories of keeping discus in a dirted tank. Aquasoil has been done, apparently, but seems rare as well. If you've never kept discus you should really make sure you understand their needs before keeping them, as they are a rather demanding species.


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## abdul (Sep 13, 2016)

geisterwald said:


> If you're interested in actually following the Walstad method, I recommend reading Walstad's book, "Ecology of the Planted Aquarium." If you search "Walstad method" on the forum you can probably also find near-complete guidelines. It's a very specific method.
> 
> Your discus will eat your shrimp, if the shrimp even survived the hot water that discus need. I'd also imagine their need for pristine water conditions would conflict with the Walstad method or even anything coming close to a Walstad tank. I can't find any success stories of keeping discus in a dirted tank. Aquasoil has been done, apparently, but seems rare as well. If you've never kept discus you should really make sure you understand their needs before keeping them, as they are a rather demanding species.


I thought Walstad method will keep my tank stable so it is a chance to have Discus and shift the focus from tank maintenance to fish maintenance :grin2:

I'm looking for relatively big fishes as a center of the aquarium. Maybe I will go with more Tetra for schooling.


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

abdul said:


> I thought Walstad method will keep my tank stable so it is a chance to have Discus and shift the focus from tank maintenance to fish maintenance :grin2:
> 
> I'm looking for relatively big fishes as a center of the aquarium. Maybe I will go with more Tetra for schooling.


Discus need a different kind of stability, one that involves water with a very low level of organics in it. I've never heard of successfully keeping discus without doing regular, large water changes.

There are plenty of centerpiece fishes that aren't discus. Look into South American cichlids and gouramis, which would be more compatible with a Walstad-style tank. A larger school of tetras would also look great!


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## Monrankim (May 28, 2016)

geisterwald said:


> Discus need a different kind of stability, one that involves water with a very low level of organics in it. I've never heard of successfully keeping discus without doing regular, large water changes.
> 
> There are plenty of centerpiece fishes that aren't discus. Look into South American cichlids and gouramis, which would be more compatible with a Walstad-style tank. A larger school of tetras would also look great!


My tank is dirted (topsoil with sphagnum peat moss, sand, clay, ect..) and my parameters are very good and stable. My nitrate levels do not get high but I have a good amount of water column feeders planted. I am curious as to what dissolved organics from the soil could be harmful to fish because it is not the first time I have heard this. Is it something Purigen could handle?


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

Monrankim said:


> My tank is dirted (topsoil with sphagnum peat moss, sand, clay, ect..) and my parameters are very good and stable. My nitrate levels do not get high but I have a good amount of water column feeders planted. I am curious as to what dissolved organics from the soil could be harmful to fish because it is not the first time I have heard this. Is it something Purigen could handle?


I wasn't talking specifically about the soil, but rather about how the Walstad method calls for minimal (sometimes no) water changes. Discus, on the other hand, are usually kept with 50% or more water changes twice a week (or more). Walstad is all about creating a self-regulating environment; balance through a simulation of nature. Typical discus care involves creating balance by replacing the water in the tank frequently. 

The dissolved organics I mentioned don't come from the soil (soil should be capped, not much leaching after maybe the first couple of weeks to a month in most cases) so much as they come from the fish, plants, etc. Examples include hormones, feces, decaying plant matter... Things that tests won't pick up. TDS will rise as well without doing water changes. Purigen helps to a degree but doesn't catch everything. If you're doing regular water changes you won't have a problem; this isn't about dirt tanks in particular but about the minimal maintenance done in a Walstad-style tank.


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## AbbeysDad (Apr 13, 2016)

Diana Walstad developed her method after observing 100g stock tanks with sludge in the bottom and Vals growing thick and green. So she tried an inch or so of soil covered by an inch or so of fine gravel in an aquarium. The plants grew really well. Now I don't think the success was as much to do with 1 inch of washed out soil, but the other aspects of the method (she has tanks 8-10 years old with the same substrate). She took a purely natural approach feeling that water circulation was important but filtration and water changes were counter productive as they removed the natural/organic nutrients that the plants could use. She points out that fish food supplies all the nutrients that the plants need. She admits that in time, as the substrate matures and CO2 levels reduce, that some plants don't do well while others will thrive. 
Here is an interview that is worth a listen:
Interview with Diana Walstad

I'm doing a Walstad inspired method using silica (pool filter) sand substrate (no dirt). I did use root tabs and minimal ferts to kick start the process and 20% weekly water changes. I am now backing off on ferts and water changes and monitoring results. So far plants continue to look good and nitrates are holding at 10-20ppm.


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## Monrankim (May 28, 2016)

geisterwald said:


> I wasn't talking specifically about the soil, but rather about how the Walstad method calls for minimal (sometimes no) water changes. Discus, on the other hand, are usually kept with 50% or more water changes twice a week (or more). Walstad is all about creating a self-regulating environment; balance through a simulation of nature. Typical discus care involves creating balance by replacing the water in the tank frequently......


Thanks for clarifying. My LFS told me that my soil tanks and build up of organics (do to soil under the cap) was the reason I lost some fish recently. I was a bit baffled because my basic parameters were great in both tanks, not to mention that the fish that have been in there already are doing fine. It was a response to me telling them that the fish I bought had a disease prior to purchase. I'm sure there was no bad intentions, but rather they just didn't know much about the subject. At first I thought you were saying the same thing. I see that although my tanks are dirted, they are definitely not Walstad/NPT because I use Purigen, dosing and do periodic water changes as well. What was said about the discus is good to know. The Barr report says that discus can do well in a dirted tank with water changes and emersed plants but someone mentioned that there has been heated debate on the subject on this forum. That being said, I couldn't see them doing well in a Walstad tank either.


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## Bananableps (Nov 6, 2013)

Only 2 otos? They're schooling fish: you should have at least 6. 


Also, if you do go with small schooling fish over large show fish, for aesthetic reasons you might want to lose the guppies. Guppies mixed in with schooling fish just look messy to me. 


If you want large fish that will do well in a dirted tank, lose the heater and get some sunfish. They're very hardy, gorgeous, and have lovely behavior. Get a small species that won't dig up plants like dollar or banded suns.

These guys are great: Sunfish for sale at Sachs Systems Aquaculture


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## TheGreenWizard (Jan 19, 2015)

If you're looking to do research on Walstad, definitely read the book she wrote: Ecology of the Planted Aquarium. As someone with science background, I appreciated that she took the time to gather evidence to support her claims, and then explain the reasoning and scientific concepts as much as possible.

That being said, I don't know if I have ever seen a discus Walstad tank. ..


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