# BBA, Need help!



## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

That isn't BBA. Looks like fuzz algae, or possibly staghorn.

And that plant does not look healthy at all, even ignoring the algae and its effects.

Make sure your CO2 levels are at least 20ppm. Do you have a drop checker to measure this?

I'm not familiar with the fertilizer you have listed in your profile, so I don't know if it's adequate. You need at least 20ppm nitrate, 2ppm phosphate, 20ppm potassium, and 0.2ppm iron in the water at all times.

Also, EasyCarbo has been reported, at least for some people, to injure both crypts and vals.

Finally, otocinclus or algae eating shrimp may eat that.


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## Fahnell (Jan 20, 2011)

EasyCarbo is the European Excel if i may say
The same thing in essence. You are correct. I does harm egeria, elodea, vallis. known fact

Colega ala nu e BBA deloc din ce vad eu


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## dhgyello04 (Jul 11, 2008)

I am new as well to the hobby of live plants. I have had aquariums for about 10 years now, but only one new planted tank. I have the same problem algae that privatetibi has. I dose on a weekly schedule of:

46 gallon tank
Fertilizer per directions on bottle:
Seachem Flourish Iron – 0.5ml to 1ml once a week
Seachem Flourish Nitrogen – 0.5ml twice a week
Seachem Flourish Potassium – 1ml twice a week
Seachem Flourish Phosphorus – 0.5ml twice a week
Seachem Flourish Excel – 1ml once a day

Not to sound to stupid… can you please explain about “ppm’s” and how you test for this. Is there a multi test kit out there for all four?

-Don


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

Dhgyello04,

PPM = parts per million. It's the concentration of a substance in water.

Many people (myself included) use dry fertilizers, and either dose them straight to the tank, or premix our own liquid solutions. These dry ferts are pure and originally undiluted, so it's easy to determine exactly how much a given dose will raise the ppm of a nutrient in our tank. There are even online calculators available that will figure this out for you.

For a commercial liquid fertilizer, determining this is harder; as it requires that the manufacturer provides accurate and descriptive information, and no calculators are available. Although you might find someone who's figured out and posted the basic calculations, I'm pretty sure I've seen this done for the Seachem line somewhere.

Or you can test. Tests are commonly available and cheap at about $5 for nitrate and phosphate. Iron is more expensive, I paid $20 for my iron test kit. Potassium tests are prohibitively expensive for most people. Any test can be inaccurate.

Looking at your dosages, I see a few problems right away.

I'm pretty sure the correct dosage for your size tank is 5ml/weekly of Flourish Iron. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, because I'm only marginally familiar with this product.

But I'm absolutely sure that the correct dosage of Excel is 5ml/daily.

It seems you're dosing at 1/5 of recommended rates for both these products. I don't know a thing about Flourish Nitrogen/Potassium/Phosphorus, but I suspect you might be underdosing these as well.

Furthermore, plants require a variety of micro-nutrients in small quantities, of which iron is just one. Flourish (with nothing else after the name) is a complete and well-balanced micro-nutrient solution, including iron. Flourish Iron contains only iron.

So your plants likely have multiple deficiencies. In the forest, fungus normally grows on dead wood, but will still infect a live tree if it is injured or unhealthy. Algae behaves the same way with plants.

If you plan to stick with the Seachem line, I recommend switching from Flourish Iron to plain Flourish. Make sure you're using Seachem's recommended dosage for your size tank for all their products.

And I wouldn't bother with tests unless you're just curious. When it comes to dosing nutrients, it's better to add too much than too little (except Excel, it's a special case). A 25%-50% weekly water change will remove enough of the excess that nothing will accumulate to toxic levels. Plus it's just good husbandry that removes other wastes and toxins.


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## jczernia (Apr 16, 2010)

dhgyello04
All your ferts are way low
Seachem Flourish Iron should be 4.6ml 
Seachem Flourish Nitrogen 2.8ml x2
just as example


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## dhgyello04 (Jul 11, 2008)

Wow. 
Thanks for the very detailed response. I tip my hat to you sir. 

If I get the Flourish (with nothing else after the name), do I just use the Excel and Flourish or keep the others going as well? Below is the info on my tank.

Tank 46 gallon bow front:
32 -Glow light Tetras
15 -Cardinal Tetras
3 -Amano shrimp
3 -Cherry red shrimp
1 -Bushy nose Pl*co

Sandy substrate with drift wood and rocks
PH is around 6.5 – 7.0

Plants:
Wisteria
Java moss
Sword 
Anubis

Filter:
305 external Fluvial 
Seachem Matrix Carbon
Ceramic rings
Seachem Bio-Matrix
Peat moss
Water polishing pads

Fertilizer per directions on bottle:
Seachem Flourish Iron – 0.5ml to 1ml once a week
Seachem Flourish Nitrogen – 0.5ml twice a week
Seachem Flourish Potassium – 1ml twice a week
Seachem Flourish Phosphorus – 0.5ml twice a week
Seachem Flourish Excel – 1ml once a day

New tap water treatment
Seachem Prime

Lighting:
Runs about 7 hrs a day. (2) T5 21W bulbs (1) white and (1) blue.


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

Dhgyello04,

No problem at all.

Flourish contains tiny amounts of nitrate/phosphate/potassium, but not anywhere near enough for successful plant growth. I would continue the full recommended doses of the separate products for those nutrients in addition to the full dose of Flourish.

Excellent tank description! Only one more thing I can add from inspecting it.

Sword plants are special. They're "root feeders". They require a concentrated nutrient source at their roots, and cannot absorb nutrients well from the water like most other plants do. Unless you provide that, they tend to grow slowly or not at all, and will never thrive. So place a solid time-release fertilizer "root tab" in the substrate directly under their roots.

Although you'll find that some people successfully use fertilizers made for terrestrial plants for this purpose (like Jobe's or Osmocote), these fertilizers provide their nitrogen primarily in the form of ammonia. That can cause its own problems if you add too much, or if it leaks out of the substrate before the plant absorbs it. So for a first-timer, I'd recommend getting a root tab made especially for aquariums, which never contains ammonia. Your LFS may carry these. The user and sponsor Overstocked here on the forums also manufactures and sells root tabs; although I haven't tried them personally, I have every confidence they are a top-quality product. Root tabs typically last a few months, you'll notice sword growth slowing again when they become depleted.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

dhgyello04 said:


> 1 -Bushy nose Pl*co


Completely off topic, but I had to ask if you left the 'e' out on purpose due to that old saying about it being really bad luck for the fish.

On topic, Dark Cobra really helped me a few months back get rid of algae when no one else could. He's definitely one to follow.


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## dhgyello04 (Jul 11, 2008)

sewingalot said:


> Completely off topic, but I had to ask if you left the 'e' out on purpose due to that old saying about it being really bad luck for the fish.
> 
> On topic, Dark Cobra really helped me a few months back get rid of algae when no one else could. He's definitely one to follow.


 
LoL... Yes, it is a bad habit

Sorry


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## dhgyello04 (Jul 11, 2008)

Cobra…Thanks
I was going to start looking into the fertilizer tabs for the swords and java fern that I added. I wanted to research them more before I added them to my tank.

So onto the Flourish. I visited the LFS today after reading your post earlier today and read the percentages of ferts. I do have shrimp in the tank and I know that you are not supposed to have copper in the water. The bottle had 0.0001% of copper in each dosage. Would that a dangerous amount for shrimp? I am asking because I added a Fluval EBI to my arsenal. I will be dosing that as well and it will be concentrated around shrimp.

I want to thank you for helping me in such detail. It is hard to find a forum that has very knowledgeable people on it. In addition, I would like to apologize for hijacking privatetibi’s post.


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

sewingalot said:


> Completely off topic, but I had to ask if you left the 'e' out on purpose due to that old saying about it being really bad luck for the fish.


I always wondered why people did that. How is it considered bad luck?


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

dhgyello04 said:


> I visited the LFS today after reading your post earlier today and read the percentages of ferts. I do have shrimp in the tank and I know that you are not supposed to have copper in the water. The bottle had 0.0001% of copper in each dosage. Would that a dangerous amount for shrimp?


Checking copper content was a good idea. 

Fortunately, tiny amounts of copper like that won't hurt shrimp, and are common in aquatic fertilizers. You'll even find a bit of copper deliberately added to some foods made for shrimp! They require a trace of it just like your plants, and every other living thing.

It's primarily the medications you'll need to watch out for. For example, a common ingredient in ick medications is methylene green, a copper compound; and there's enough in there to tint the water.

And if you ever do experiment with using any fertilizer not explicitly made for aquatic use, check the copper content. As an example, Miracle Gro has 0.07% copper, or 700x more.


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## privatetibi (Dec 30, 2010)

Hi, thanks, DarkCobra. Fahnell, ok, nu ii mai dau easy carbo. Si daca nu e BBA, ce e? Ai idee cum scap de ea? Ca doar sa stiu ca nu e BBA, nu prea ma ajuta  Sau ce fertilizatori de pe piata as putea sa iau. Aqua Plant activator mi-a fost recomandat de un acvarist pe care l-am angajat pentru reamenajare si sa ma scape de alga asta. Si el e clueless ))


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## Fahnell (Jan 20, 2011)

cobra. as i alwas stated and you know it by now . algae = filter problem. he has a wrong/undersized filter


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

I agree that "overfiltration" is always a good thing, and I always do it myself. I just don't think it's the universal solution. It will not fix a nutrient deficiency, that's for sure.

The comment I made about fungus that normally grows on dead wood, but can infect a live tree if it is injured or unhealthy; and how algae can follow the same pattern? It was to Privatetibi as much as Dhgyello04; and I wish I'd made it in my original post instead.

The pattern of algae growth on the edges of the leaves suggests these plants are unhealthy; and the algae is the result, not the original cause of the problem. The brown spots on the surface also cry out multiple nutrient deficiencies.

I can't find anything listing the actual ingredients or nutrient amounts provided by Aqua Plant 24+Activator, not even on the manufacturer's website. The lack of such information alone makes it highly suspect.

But I did find the dosage directions, 1 drop daily per 50 L. I know from experience mixing my own solutions that it's _physically impossible_ to have enough nutrients dissolved in a single drop to come even close to adequately fertilizing a 50L aquarium!

So considering the other useless, expensive, and in the case of EasyCarbo even damaging things recommended to Privatetibi by the person he's hired, I would not be surprised if he recommended this fertilizer because it was trendy and expensive, rather than effective.

As for alternatives, I don't know what's available in Romania, or even what mail order options are available; in some countries common fertilizers are restricted.


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## Fahnell (Jan 20, 2011)

That Aqua Plant is a mystery even for me (i am from Romania like him)
Well. That plant is an Ozelot (an rather easy plant)
I am not much into the condition of that plant. You can have an driftwood only blackwater tank with no algae ...right?
I will link the condition of that Ozelot more with the substrate. I noticed that a very very rich substrate (10cm-12cm) will boots the growth. 
cobra i think we deal with 2 problems
1 - lack of nutrients for the Ozelot
2 - low filtering volume

I hope tha you agree that even a tank with no plant should not have alagae .

As for Romania. We have Dupla, Dennerle, Tetra, JBL, Sera, Easylife....only to mention some respectable companies who produce fertilizers

BTW. 1 drop / 50 liter?for example my Sera daydrops is 1 drop/10 liter. 5 times more. I agree that that product is suspect


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

Fahnell said:


> I hope tha you agree that even a tank with no plant should not have alagae .


I agree. A tank with unhealthy plants is _worse_ than a tank with no plants at all. 



Fahnell said:


> As for Romania. We have Dupla, Dennerle, Tetra, JBL, Sera, Easylife....only to mention some respectable companies who produce fertilizers


Excellent, plenty of good options to choose from.

I always prefer and recommend dry ferts. If the OP is interested in those, do you know if they're an option? (I ask because potassium nitrate is a restricted chemical in some places.)


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## Fahnell (Jan 20, 2011)

dry ferts are for pros and they are the best. that is clear. most of the liquid ferts are placebo stuff  (plain water so to speak)
i do not know about restrictions here ..maybe ..some new European Union regulations...but i am not aware of them

btw. i think that Easycarbo is a good thing for a period for that Ozelot. I myself trust the old Co2 but for a while he can use it. it is an algicid afterall and a Co2 alternative
Anyway i want to know exaclty what filtering system he has


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## drlower (Dec 14, 2010)

i just want to give darkcobra some appreciation for his input on this thread. i still find some of this stuff confusing as i am rather new, but your input took a fairly complex process and made it seam clear and simple.


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

Hey Drlower, glad to hear it helped you!

My appreciation goes out to everyone on this forum. They taught me everything I know, and I'm still learning.


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## privatetibi (Dec 30, 2010)

Hey, you've been busy here... I want to give my appreciation to DarkCobra for his answers... Dude, how could you possible know all that?  I don't think I'll ever get to know that much because I have no time to get so much into it. I've been reading your posts with the guy I hired and tomorrow he's gonna trim all the affected leaves. That means almost all of them. @Fahnell: I have a external filter JBL CristalProfi E900, and an internal AquaEl 450l/h, mostly to keep a good flow inside.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

DarkCobra's my main algae fighter mentor. :thumbsup: He's the first person I contact when I am not sure of a new method to try or what kind of steps I need to take with getting rid of a problem. Please keep us all updated with your tank's progress.

Oh, and off topic one last time I promise! Since I know longer have one, I'll share this little tidbit.

Plecostomus are often spelled like "pleco" or "pl*co" 'because of the superstition that if spelled out (or spoken) fully, the fish will die. Here's a link that refers to it: http://rosamondgiffordzoo.org/assets/uploads/animals/pdf/HypostomusPlecostomus.pdf


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