# xenxes's Marina Betta Kit 0.5g - Nano Herb Garden



## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

*Current Status (7/4/12)*
No longer doing anything with this, just threw it outside waiting for teardown.

"Tank" Progression Link

[strike]Serving as my nano plant nursery! See below pic for 9 day growth of clippings and HC (please disregard the avocado pit):[/strike]

Now a limnophila aromatica herb garden 




















Old RCS / nano nursery Pics:









1/27/12









2/5/12

*Equipment*: 
- Marina Betta Kit (got it when $7)
- Hagen Elite Mini filter ($7) + 1 mini-packet of carbon, and 1 mini packet of biomedia (both cut and sowed) + cut some of the inside sponge to superglue to intake.

*Fauna*: 6 RCS, unknown # of pond/ramshorn/MTS snail hatchlings, nematodes, copepods, ostracods

*Flora*: HC + random clippings @ back, frogbits, RRF, salvinia minima, dwarf watter lettuce, duckweed, water lettuce

_Original Post:
--------------------------------_

So I got this 1/2 gallon Marina Betta Kit and decided to throw in 10 male Bettas.










Just kidding 

Got this as a shrimp quarantine tank ($7) and because it looked neat, but ended up populating it. Grabbed a Hagen Elite Mini filter ($7), stuffed the hell out of it with sponges (superglued to intake also). *Make-shift 3 layer filtration*: added 1 mini-packet of carbon, and 1 mini packet of biomedia (both cut and sowed). Flow @ a trickle. Output angled up to water surface to create movement and not dislodge sand.

*Fauna*: 12 RCS, 3 MTS
*Flora*: HC, frogbits
*Substrate* 1/4" soil, some Fluval plant stratum, Tahitian moon sand & small gravel (only had white) cap

Water top-off daily, 30-50% change/week. I think the size works for RCS, but I'll be moving most over to my 9g when it arrives (unbroken hopefully).


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## Basil (Jul 11, 2011)

Wow that filter fits?? Crazy!


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

So I saw this tiny gold spec on the side of my tiny plastic cube last night:











And tonight:




















I hope those are baby MTS and not some plant-eating pond snail?


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## DanCottle (Apr 12, 2011)

Those are "pond snails" they only eat decaying plant matter not the live stuff, but are hard to get rid of.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

DanCottle said:


> Those are "pond snails" they only eat decaying plant matter not the live stuff, but are hard to get rid of.


Are they the same as mystery snails? Not sure where I would have gotten them  I washed everything off pretty well before setting anything in. Hopefully my other tanks didn't get them.

Forgot to do a status update: all 12 cherries alive. Hope they survive in this little thing until I can get my 9g cycled.

Saw some tiny specs of dust flying around, but they're baby RCS! Counted about 5 or 6 zooming around in the front of the tank, not sure if they came with or just popped out. Can't really capture them on camera, need an amazing macro lens for that :/ 

Anyway some shrimp pics (Day +2):


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Couple of those snails quadrupled in size in another day:



















Pretty shell, so football shaped = pond = bad? More seem to be appearing everyday.


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

Start smooshing them. Free food for the shrimp!

They probably came in as eggs on the frogbit or something. It's so hard to catch all the eggs, and then they start multipying fast


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## acitydweller (Dec 28, 2011)

maybe you shouldnt have made the 10 betta comment. hehehe... anyway, yeah those snails may start overrunning if left unchecked. What kind of lighting are you using? great work on the tank filter. i had two of these marine tanks but ended up getting a 4 gallon evolve instead.


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## bastage (Dec 21, 2011)

diwu13 said:


> Start smooshing them. Free food for the shrimp!


Whoa does that work ok? I have a pond snail outbreak happening in a tank with RCS & that would be much quicker then throwing them outside.


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

bastage said:


> Whoa does that work ok? I have a pond snail outbreak happening in a tank with RCS & that would be much quicker then throwing them outside.


This will 100% work. Start off by squishing any big ones you find, this'll stop the egg production. Using your finger works best ! When the pond snail population starts to get lower to a tolerable level, only squish babies. The adults will keep making eggs so you have a never ending free food supply for shrimp roud:

And it's super funny watching shrimp fight over a smooshed snail.


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## bastage (Dec 21, 2011)

diwu13 said:


> This will 100% work. Start off by squishing any big ones you find, this'll stop the egg production. Using your finger works best ! When the pond snail population starts to get lower to a tolerable level, only squish babies. The adults will keep making eggs so you have a never ending free food supply for shrimp roud:
> 
> And it's super funny watching shrimp fight over a smooshed snail.


I Shall try this.. Though I dont want a never ending supply.. I have a 29 gallon tank that belongs to the RCS & a couple of mystery snails that breed like crazy anywho.. I want the little buggers GONE..


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## FisheriesOmen (Jan 14, 2012)

when i saw the title of .5g betta tank i almost raged on this forum :/ I use to have those snails in a 5 gal and yes get rid of them...fast! they will literally infest the tank and you'll see them all over the place.


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

bastage said:


> I Shall try this.. Though I dont want a never ending supply.. I have a 29 gallon tank that belongs to the RCS & a couple of mystery snails that breed like crazy anywho.. I want the little buggers GONE..


Might be harder to find them in such a big tank, but do your best! As long as you cut down the bigger ones (I would say larger than "__") the cripple the population.



FisheriesOmen said:


> when i saw the title of .5g betta tank i almost raged on this forum :/ I use to have those snails in a 5 gal and yes get rid of them...fast! they will literally infest the tank and you'll see them all over the place.


As long as you don't overfeed their population won't bloom. :bounce:


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

diwu13 said:


> Start smooshing them. Free food for the shrimp!
> 
> They probably came in as eggs on the frogbit or something. It's so hard to catch all the eggs, and then they start multipying fast


Gross :/ I accidentally smooshed one with my planting tongs earlier while trying to move them to a tupperware (want to see what they look like fully grown), threw it out instead of feeding it, suppose it'd be good protein supplement. 

No snails in other tanks with same frogbits, maybe the fish/ghost shrimp are eating them.

Moved 6 more cherries over to the 20g (removed swordtail and blue platys back to the LFS), don't know what I'll do with the female betta (impulse buy), she's in a quarantine container.


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## philemon716 (Aug 14, 2011)

A betta will take care of those snails in no time...just sayin'.


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## TheJadeShrimp (Oct 13, 2011)

philemon716 said:


> A betta will take care of those snails in no time...just sayin'.


That is true. But that "tank" is to small even for a female. Once you move the shrimp. I say get an assassin snail. :icon_bigg


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

TheJadeShrimp said:


> That is true. But that "tank" is to small even for a female. Once you move the shrimp. I say get an assassin snail. :icon_bigg


Assassin snails are creepy :tongue:

I might leave a couple RCS in here, or take them all out and throw in my aggressive ghost shrimp, or use it as a fairy shrimp breeding container, don't know. What can you do with a 1/2 gal?


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

xenxes said:


> Assassin snails are creepy :tongue:
> 
> I might leave a couple RCS in here, or take them all out and throw in my aggressive ghost shrimp, or use it as a fairy shrimp breeding container, don't know. What can you do with a 1/2 gal?


Can't do much with 1/2 gallon haha. But all the ideas you listed should be fine except for fairy shrimp breeding. Not sure if they need more stable parameters than what a small volume of water can provide?


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

diwu13 said:


> Can't do much with 1/2 gallon haha. But all the ideas you listed should be fine except for fairy shrimp breeding. Not sure if they need more stable parameters than what a small volume of water can provide?


Lol I did a few water tests on it, it's actually pretty stable. I get a 0.25 ppm Ammonia reading every now and then if I throw in a larger veggie stick for too long, same with Nitrites. Nitrates are pretty high at 40ppm, I think I have some dirt leaking up through the sand, but that's what the smaller frogbits are for.

But the fairy shrimp fry will probably get sucked into the filter even if it's @ a trickle with pre-filter sponges. Pickle jar (standing water) might be bigger / better


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

Hm... what are you planning on doing with that .5g tank then ._.? Might as well turn it into a moss grow out jar haha.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

philemon716 said:


> A betta will take care of those snails in no time...just sayin'.


So true! I threw a few frogbits crawling with snails into my Spec with the male betta, he cleaned it up in 10 secs flat. Nom nom nom.



diwu13 said:


> Hm... what are you planning on doing with that .5g tank then ._.? Might as well turn it into a moss grow out jar haha.


Lol maybe, dead moss = snail food. Might just toss it to save space. 

I'd like to find a cheap 2-3 gal glass cube, throw the filter in and put it where the marina kit is now, lightly plant it and use it to house my female betta. If I bought another Spec I'd have a matching pair, uggh


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

Hm... betta's will eat baby snails? Or did it go after the frogbit and ate the snails that happened to be on it?

Haha, looks like you're coming down with a case of mutli tank syndrome . Are you married? Girlfriend? Anyone who opposes so many tanks haha?


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Fiance, I'm good as long as I keep it to nano tanks, I think


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## Eldachleich (Jul 9, 2011)

I've been eyeing this tank. Would you reccomend it?


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Eldachleich said:


> I've been eyeing this tank. Would you reccomend it?


It's not so much a tank as a small semi-stylish plastic cube, scratches easy. There's the 0.5g here and a 0.9g taller but thinner one.

Neither for a fish, a few shrimps and snails sure  I'd say 2g for a Betta, some recommend 5+. But then again I've known Bettas that lived for 5 years in a <1 gal container. Were they happy? I don't know if fish can be happy, but they were healthy, well fed, and the water was kept pristine; might have lived longer if their owners kept it up. I know I can't deal with daily wc and constant poop vacuuming. 

You glass betta bowl is much better, I need to find something like that!


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## Eldachleich (Jul 9, 2011)

xenxes said:


> It's not so much a tank as a small semi-stylish plastic cube, scratches easy. There's the 0.5g here and a 0.9g taller but thinner one.
> 
> Neither for a fish, a few shrimps and snails sure  I'd say 2g for a Betta, some recommend 5+. But then again I've known Bettas that lived for 5 years in a <1 gal container. Were they happy? I don't know if fish can be happy, but they were healthy, well fed, and the water was kept pristine; might have lived longer if their owners kept it up. I know I can't deal with daily wc and constant poop vacuuming.
> 
> You glass betta bowl is much better, I need to find something like that!


Aw thank you. I'm having so many issues with that bowl. none of the plans will grow higher than 4 inches!!!
I got it at home goods. Most of their glassware is at least 3 gallons. And they get real interesting stuff in. For the same price as those expensive 1 gallon bowls you see everywhere.

I wanted something for the corner of the counter in my bathroom and this is just perfect. I was thinking of housing a few blue pearls in it.
I didn't know theres a .9 bigger one though. I might look into that.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Eldachleich said:


> Aw thank you. I'm having so many issues with that bowl. none of the plans will grow higher than 4 inches!!!
> I got it at home goods. Most of their glassware is at least 3 gallons. And they get real interesting stuff in. For the same price as those expensive 1 gallon bowls you see everywhere.
> 
> I wanted something for the corner of the counter in my bathroom and this is just perfect. I was thinking of housing a few blue pearls in it.
> I didn't know theres a .9 bigger one though. I might look into that.


Here's what the larger one looks like. They look pretty nice. Be warned, only the Zen and the Contemporary themes are the 0.9g. The other 2 are misadvertised (learned the hard way). 

Blue pearl shrimp would look really good in that. You could probably grow moss and keep a java fern or anubias nana as the center piece (or a red plastic plant!). 

I think your plants aren't growing in the bowl because there's low-no nutrients (read you're only using sand substrate). I like to use at least a 0.5" of dirt at the bottom of my substrate and top with sand/gravel, makes things very easy. Probably won't have to fertilize till year 1-2+.

You could pull it all out to add dirt, or just buy some osmocote capsules and stick them in the sand. I wouldn't go the liquid fertilizer route with sand, hard for them to get into the substrate from the water column, unless you have an army of malaysian trumpet snails.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Snails will only "infest" your tank if you're overfeeding. As someone said earlier in the thread, they'll only eat decaying plant matter, for the most part. 

It's easy to use them as fish food, trap them and give them away/dispose of them properly. There's not really a reason to freak out and it's my opinion that they're a sign of a healthy tank. (Since they're nearly impossible to get rid of completely, I had to find a way to like them)


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

somewhatshocked said:


> Snails will only "infest" your tank if you're overfeeding. As someone said earlier in the thread, they'll only eat decaying plant matter, for the most part.
> 
> It's easy to use them as fish food, trap them and give them away/dispose of them properly. There's not really a reason to freak out and it's my opinion that they're a sign of a healthy tank. (Since they're nearly impossible to get rid of completely, I had to find a way to like them)


I blame your yummy veggie sticks 

Was worried at first because I read the football shaped ones ate live plants, but that's not the case. Honestly I wish I had more, they make a great live betta feed (chomps through the larger shells even), my platies enjoy the crushed ones too. Some just popped out in my 20g, none in the betta tank though, I think he eats them as they crawl up.


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

That's really interesting. Your betta must be really mean then. My GF's betta was so passive and let everything live. He even allowed the RCS to clean it's fins ._.!

I still don't like the snails though, I don't like how they look compared to nerites ! So I'll keep smooshing until I have none left. I'm pretty sure I can take the population down to zero as long as I crush the larger ones that can lay eggs.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

diwu13 said:


> That's really interesting. Your betta must be really mean then. My GF's betta was so passive and let everything live. He even allowed the RCS to clean it's fins ._.!
> 
> I still don't like the snails though, I don't like how they look compared to nerites ! So I'll keep smooshing until I have none left. I'm pretty sure I can take the population down to zero as long as I crush the larger ones that can lay eggs.


They are actually quite pretty, I'll take a pic when I spot the big one again, it's about 0.5-1" long now (matter of days, geez). 

The male betta is fairly aggressive, it ignores larger snails and ghost shrimp (can't see them I guess). Attacks anything else that moves fast and/or colorful. It can't eat MTS (shells are harder). I wish he was calmer, I'd really prefer to keep a couple RCS in the tank to clean algae/scraps, maybe really low grade or brown ones?


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## Eldachleich (Jul 9, 2011)

xenxes said:


> Here's what the larger one looks like. They look pretty nice. Be warned, only the Zen and the Contemporary themes are the 0.9g. The other 2 are misadvertised (learned the hard way).
> 
> Blue pearl shrimp would look really good in that. You could probably grow moss and keep a java fern or anubias nana as the center piece (or a red plastic plant!).
> 
> ...


I actually added Miracle Grow about a month ago. Thats when they all decided to stay short lol... But I see signs of new growth no so I'm hoping for an explosion of growth.

You convinced me. I went to the store ad took a look at them. The .9 gallon is now going in my bathroom!!
Petsmart sells a tiiiiiiiny 10 watt heater too if I feel like buying one. And I mean tiny. Seriously tiny.
Aqueon supports my nano habit in more ways than they could know.

I think I;m gonna go for blue pearls. Or perhaps blue rili's. I'm not sure yet.
I'll have to see once I'm all done planting it lol..
Thanks for inspiring me!! And my fiance thanks you for helping convince me to get yet another tank xD.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

acitydweller said:


> maybe you shouldnt have made the 10 betta comment. hehehe... anyway, yeah those snails may start overrunning if left unchecked. What kind of lighting are you using? great work on the tank filter. i had two of these marine tanks but ended up getting a 4 gallon evolve instead.


It's sitting next to my Aerogarden, 2 bulbs 1450 lumens each. The small frogbits I threw in grow a new leaf every day, keep having to fish them out. Was an impulse buy because it looked neat. Want to move it onto a bathroom shelf, but then I'd need separate lighting :/




Eldachleich said:


> I actually added Miracle Grow about a month ago. Thats when they all decided to stay short lol... But I see signs of new growth no so I'm hoping for an explosion of growth.
> 
> You convinced me. I went to the store ad took a look at them. The .9 gallon is now going in my bathroom!!
> Petsmart sells a tiiiiiiiny 10 watt heater too if I feel like buying one. And I mean tiny. Seriously tiny.
> ...


Those are some fairly expensive shrimp, maybe play with RCS first so you can't blame me if it dies 

Let me know how it goes, are you adding a tiny filter? I really wanted to get a HOB because space is cramped as is, but couldn't find one small enough. Heater + filter in this might not fit lol.


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## Eldachleich (Jul 9, 2011)

xenxes said:


> Those are some fairly expensive shrimp, maybe play with RCS first so you can't blame me if it dies
> 
> Let me know how it goes, are you adding a tiny filter? I really wanted to get a HOB because space is cramped as is, but couldn't find one small enough. Heater + filter in this might not fit lol.


 Naw lol.... Those shrimp are just as hardy as red cherries. Same shrimp I believe. Just a different colour morph. I already had die off once in shrimps. I think I can take another in the future. Hopefully that wont happen though eh?
I wont blame you if it does lol..
The heater is seriousl tiny. Like... maybe 1/4 inch thick by 4inches tall by an inch wide. Tiny tiny. And only 10 watts. No temp controls though.

Theres a mini hob. A 3i from... marina maybe? at petsmart. 
Actually its in tank, But the intake is a flexible tube. I'm planning on siliconing some extra tubing on and rigging it to the outside.
I'll let you know how it works out.

I always though those snails were pretty too. A bit of a pest but beautiful all the same.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Ouch, no temp control could cook the shrimp? Here's the smallest one I found, 5" tall still http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3579+9821&pcatid=9821.

I know they're the same variety, but don't blue pearls cost 10x more than RCS? and rilis 20x more? Hrmm I should get some blue pearls for my 9g, would red + blue = purple? Probably just brown.

Forgot to post some pics:









I need to clean my counters 









Frogbits do the best in this little thing, amazing what a little light can do









HC isn't doing half bad, I need to clean the container before taking pics next time


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Ha! That's the ticket! Honestly, the veggie sticks may be a good way to trap them if they ever do get out of the control.

And feeding them to your fish is a GREAT idea.

If you want to culture them on a large scale, start up a bucket or bowl with a light over it, add some floaters, drop in a few bladder/pond snails and feed every few days. Will only take you a month to get a feeling for how often you need to feed in order to have a population explosion.



xenxes said:


> I blame your yummy veggie sticks
> 
> Was worried at first because I read the football shaped ones ate live plants, but that's not the case. Honestly I wish I had more, they make a great live betta feed (chomps through the larger shells even), my platies enjoy the crushed ones too. Some just popped out in my 20g, none in the betta tank though, I think he eats them as they crawl up.


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## Eldachleich (Jul 9, 2011)

I'm worried about that too. It might just be stable enough in my bathroom for no heater.
I'm gonna buy one and play around with it for a while. See what it does.

I've been looking for one of those filters forever. No one around me has one and I can't justify the shipping for that one item. Thats why I was thinking of rigging the other one.
I was also considering a mini sponge filter. But I hate bubbles.

Well the cherry shrimp I look at are the really red ones. And they cost the same.
Except for blue rili's. Those are more expensive.
I don't know... I'm still looking for the right shrimp. 
I was thinking maybe the yellow ones. I've always liked them. But I've always liked the blue too.

Lol!! Purple would be cool.
I've mixed some of them on purpose before. They throw out some interesting colours. Never got a brown one.
Wait thats a lie. I had a blue pearl reject tank and after a while I ended up with an intense hersheys brown colour. 
I also got yellow, amber, orange, and black. Cool stuff.

I believe at most its about $30 for 10. Which honestly is the most I would put in mine.. Minus the babies of course. Those would probably eventually be thrown into every tank I have lol. Or my pond. Start a huge blue pearl colony in a pond..


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

xenxes said:


> I know they're the same variety, but don't blue pearls cost 10x more than RCS? and rilis 20x more? Hrmm I should get some blue pearls for my 9g, would red + blue = purple? Probably just brown.


Blue pearls and RCS are same species (neocaridina) but different genus. Blue pearls are "zhangjiajiensis" whereas RCS, yellows, rilis are "heteropoda". If a zhangjiajiensis breeds with a heteropoda the offspring is genetically weak and will often die pretty easily. Don't know about the colors though.

Blue pearls and low grade rili's cost about 2x, 3x more than RCS. Around $30 for 10 shipped as stated. High grade blue rili much more, around $15 a shrimp!


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

I know nothing about shrimp! I like the RCS on green contrast, one of these days when I get a high-tech setup with mostly red plants I'll invest in blues  Thank god the forums are back up. You could just get the Hagen elite I have on Amazon for $7 shipped (if you have Prime), or just bundle it with other stuff for free shipping. No bubbles, it's smaller than the smallest sponge filter I could find. Angle output nozzle upwards to avoid blowing away the shrimp. I turned it up a notch to create water movement and get rid of detrius.









It takes a little work to get the flow just right, plus side is you can stick in a layer of biomedia too. I threw in a tiny piece of avocado, so far it's avocado > zucchini > cucumber, but veggie sticks beat them all. 

Been dumping in tiny clippings of plants whenever I trim the 20g. Be interesting to see what grows.


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## Eldachleich (Jul 9, 2011)

See... he knew what was up with the shrimp lol. 
I personally cannot keep track of it though.
Still unsure of which shrimp to use. I'll decide once everything is said and done.
I never order anything online so theres never anything to bundle shipping with. I'll work with whats local. Try to get some sort filter up.
I realised the filter I was looking at was just a modified sponge filter. They just made it so the bubbles never entered the actual water column.
There are a few mom and pop fish stores I could try and see if they have a filter like yours in. Might have to go check tomorrow.

I'll have to see what grows in yours!! So far I don't know what to put in mine. 
I have some marsilea that never lost its 4 leaf clover form. Perhaps It will survive in there. I just do not know if it will keep its 4 leaf clover form in such low light tank.
I wonder how long these tiny things take to cycle...
I suppose a small clipping of one of my sponges from my aquaclears would be enough to cycle it first day huh?
I just love this mini tank.
Thaank you so much for everything!! youve been such an awesome help.

I have some really tiny fountain pumps lying around everywhere.... I could try and rig a tiny filter with one of those.


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## londonloco (Aug 25, 2005)

Pretty pretty little tank......and yes, I'm stalking your tanks! :flick:
I skimmed this thread, didn't see anything about a light, do you have one on this 1/2 gallon tank? That rock w/HC on it looks beautiful....


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

londonloco said:


> Pretty pretty little tank......and yes, I'm stalking your tanks! :flick:
> I skimmed this thread, didn't see anything about a light, do you have one on this 1/2 gallon tank? That rock w/HC on it looks beautiful....


Hehe thanks, it's more of a recycled mistake purchase. Sitting under a hydroponic Aerogarden, so twin 1450 lumens. Best light out of any of my tanks (all low-tech).




Eldachleich said:


> See... he knew what was up with the shrimp lol.
> I personally cannot keep track of it though.
> Still unsure of which shrimp to use. I'll decide once everything is said and done.
> I never order anything online so theres never anything to bundle shipping with. I'll work with whats local. Try to get some sort filter up.
> ...


I forgot you were in CA, Amazon tax will kill most deals anyway. Not looking forward to moving there for that sole reason (well, and the living cost). 

I took 4 of those white biomedia things from an older tank (was Aquaclear brand media), and 4 new ones, spread in a single layer in the tiny filter. It pretty much came precycled. 

Marsilea is an amazing foreground plant! Adapts to any lighting condition, it'll be fine in ambient light in your bathroom too. Mine is under high light so I have more room to play around. I need to buy some dwarf marsilea for my low light tanks.

Can't wait to see how yours turn out!

Img update (nothing died yet )


















All 6 nomming on 1/4 a veggie stick


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## Eldachleich (Jul 9, 2011)

xenxes said:


> I forgot you were in CA, Amazon tax will kill most deals anyway. Not looking forward to moving there for that sole reason (well, and the living cost).
> 
> I took 4 of those white biomedia things from an older tank (was Aquaclear brand media), and 4 new ones, spread in a single layer in the tiny filter. It pretty much came precycled.
> 
> ...


Shipping is killer here... still it could be Canada or Hawaii..
I am doing that too.. But with a sponge... still looking around for the right pump.
It would be a great foreground plant. If it had ever converted to its one leaf short form. It's a 6 inch tall clover wonderland though.
Cute though. People always ask if I just stuck clovers in my tank from my yard lol.. 
I would love the lowlight single leaf dwarf kind though.
You wont have to wait long.. I just bought the tank, and pulled the trigger on some shrimp. Yellow shrimp.
And I was silly enough to order them express!! Now I have one day to scape it.
I just started it up today and made the journal not too long ago.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

New FTS. Experimenting with random clippings in back.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Growth update:









where the cube is located









half-dead clippings all perked up; serving as a tiny aquatic plant nursery


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

What's with the potatoes?


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

diwu13 said:


> What's with the potatoes?


Lol! They're avocado pits. Going to grow a few dwarf (trimmed roots) ones for house plants. Maybe set them in the ground as trees when I move out of the city and get a house.


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

LOL. Oh haha. Aren't the pits really hard? How did you drive those bamboo skewers through them? And are you afraid of them doing anything to the water? How many of those do you have ._.? I see at least three lol.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Just 3, they're easy to pierce with just a toothpick. Flat half on bottom, round half on top, grows out in maybe 2 weeks. The big one I started maybe 3 weeks ago turned into a small tree already (8"+) and I just pinched off the top leaves so it'll branch out. I don't think they'll do anything to the water, if anything the roots will get huge fast and suck whatever little nitrates out and I'll have to move it.

They make neat house warming gifts, also growing some shy plants too (the ones that closes their leaves when you touch them), but those are harder to germinate.

The 6 cherries in this little thing are active and growing, but not as fast as the ones in the 20g.


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

You have a picture of the avacado tree ? That's pretty cool haha.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

More of a twig than a tree, roots are filling in first since I pinched the top again. Used to barely fill a coffee mug. 









I used tap but fish water works better. Ignore the stuffed cat


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

WOW, that's a great view man! I'm surprised fish tank water makes it grow better though. Even though there will be a ton of nitrates, all the trace minerals should have been used up by the plants in the tank? At least that was the thought. Is that in your house or your office? Nice cat


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

That's the apartment, I miss my old wrap around city/ocean view. But bad economy, down-sized to a 1 bed to save $ and pay off student loans. The night view is great though, sometimes the clouds can get down to where I am (lol, off-topic):










I think I dosed some fert & root hormone on day 1, don't remember. And I think the 20g has plenty of trace minerals leeching up from the heavily fertilized soil I mistakenly put in. /Sigh.


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

Living in the city is so expensive haha. I hate cities though, such a PITA to get around :\. I like driving where I need to go, when I need to go. Not sit in traffic every other block :\

Did you take that picture?


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Yeah, with an old crappy point and shoot camera on a tripod. Public transit > driving, although the public transit sucks here. Boston and SF are much better cities to get around in just from the trains.


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

Yea but I'd rather have the choice to leave during my time lol. Instead of waiting for trains, and then getting crammed into trains as well. My girlfriend is attending Boston University. Still don't like that city, I don't like cities in general . I like rural to country settings. The air is just so much better . I need my free space (just like shrimps haha).


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Growth update:

Top is 9 days ago, bottom today:

















I put some almost-dead RRF in, top is 2 days ago, bottom today:

















Dead particles get eaten, new leaves set in. Avocado shell fell off, starting to crack!


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

WOW! That is a ton of growth for 9 days, with no ferts or anything !!!


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

Oh yea, since you've had both red root floaters and frobit... what are the differences? They look really similar from pictures.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Frogbits are harder, crunchier, have shinier and more reflective leaves. RRF are soft and more furry/matte-like leaves. On the bottom pic only the bottom right and left of the tank are frogbits, mostly everything else is RRF, they turn red over time (probably with iron too), and roots are thinner, and there's more of them, which turn red also.

I think the inverts eating off dead matter is helping to stimulate new growth tremendously. I rarely feed in this tank other than drop in almost-dead plants and new clippings I want to later transplant.

Those two pics don't really do it justice, since I took out a lot of healthy plants in the top pic after taking the pic.


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## epiphany (Oct 8, 2011)

Eldachleich said:


> Shipping is killer here... still it could be Canada or Hawaii..
> I am doing that too.. But with a sponge... still looking around for the right pump.
> It would be a great foreground plant. If it had ever converted to its one leaf short form. It's a 6 inch tall clover wonderland though.
> Cute though. People always ask if I just stuck clovers in my tank from my yard lol..
> ...


Not sure if you've got your filter situation sorted or what affect living in CA will have on pricing, but what about something like this or this?


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

I think she setup a sponge filter, Amazon has taxes in CA, so most of the time it kills the deal, and they have other fees too, i.e. electronics recycling fee / "green" fees, I don't know.



diwu13 said:


> ...Nice cat


Off-topic, but:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sO0hwNQKUf8


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

xenxes said:


> Off-topic, but:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sO0hwNQKUf8


So my niece used to watch that on TV in China when she was younger. Not sure if it came out in Chinese first, or in Japanese, but I definitely remember the cat speaking in Chinese lol. 

I see you and raise you a cat video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Bmhjf0rKe8


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Some interesting creatures in the 1/2 g:









I hope that's a nematode, could be planaria though 









Lots of copepods


Nano floaters distinguished:


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

If you can't see the planaria arrow shaped head it's probably some type of nemotode.

Thanks for splitting those floaters to show how they really look.  From the top view it's really hard for me to tell which is which. The roots do look a different though. Guess that's why they are called "red roots" for a reason lol.

What's with the lone dwarf water lettuce?


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Lol I don't know, I think it was sent to me with the RRF but I don't recall ever seeing it, it just popped out of nowhere! Do aquatic floaters germinate from seeds? It's my only one so I'm taking special care of it, till it propagates. Oh and some of the RRF are starting to turn red, at least red underside.

I'm seeing a new species of snails in some of my tanks. There was the pond snails of various colors, then red and brown ramshorns, now I'm seeing some shiny tiny silver snails (unless they're just limpets?)... can't wait till they grow bigger so I can figure out what it is. I think doing minimal water changes = more creatures in the tank.

Still 6 RCS in here, they seem to be maturing slower (probably mostly due to diet of dead plant matter) than the larger tank. Or maybe they're all males.


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

Most floaters I know spread from propagating sideways. The new propagation still relies on the mother plant for nutrients until it establishes it's own leaves and roots. If they get broken off early they generally die :\. Are the RRFs leaves supposed to be red as well?

Do you like having so many little critters in your tank besides shrimp? I hate it haha. Still fighting pest snails (pond and mini ramshorns) in both my tanks. If you really want I can send you a ton of mini ramshorn snails (if you look it up, they carry their shells horizontally instead of vertically) which are interesting snails.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

I like them as cleaners, obviously I wouldn't want too much. I only have a handful in each tank. I just hope I didn't get any plant-eating snails. How are you still fighting an infestation? I thought you crush them to supplement your shrimp's protein / calcium?

I wish there was a large enough copepod / nematode colony in the 20g to sustain the fish so I won't have to feed them  But I'll probably need a way larger tank for that.


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

I am crushing any that I see but there are small snails all over my DW that are too well out of reach for me to crush. So I have to wait for them to get larger or leave the DW so that I can crush them. I don't want to introduce assassins since I have nerites as well.

Did you want some mini ramshorns?


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Thanks I'm okay for now lol. I'll let you know when I have a snail shortage though  My pearl mysteries are the size of golf balls, I have to feed them separately. How big do ramshorns get?

Edit*: found a cool site -- http://www.applesnail.net/content/snails_various.php

I have Football-shaped Pond/Physidae (up to .7"), Ramshorn/Planorbidae (up to 1"), 3 different colors of MTS/Thiaridae (up to 1.5"; record 8").

My next tank: brackish algae tank to breed nerites & opae ula


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

The mini ramshorns never get larger than 1cm. Most top out ~0.5cm so they stay TINY. Perfect food for your betta I suppose haha.

The nerite and opae ula project sounds really interesting. Ideally you want a larger tank for them so the parameters remain more constant. Also, if you do finally get nerites to breed you might be THE first person on the forum that has success.


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## PinoyBoy (Mar 14, 2008)

After reading this thread, I want to get some dwarf water lettuce now. I have RRF, or atleast that's what the seller told me, but the roots are longer and barely have any tint of red.

BTW, how do you make it a "dwarf" avocado tree? Will the tree itself be dwarf or the fruits are dwarf?


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## Eldachleich (Jul 9, 2011)

xenxes said:


> I think she setup a sponge filter, Amazon has taxes in CA, so most of the time it kills the deal, and they have other fees too, i.e. electronics recycling fee / "green" fees, I don't know.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lol.. I'm a he!!

The tank is starting to look awesome!!!!
I've never taken the plunge with HC even though I can find it everywhere here...
But your tank is making me want to buy some...
Really want to set up another 1 gallon - 2 gallon in my room for some blue rili shrimp... Not sure if I should...
I want to...
Actually.. I'm moving rooms and remodeling right now.. I should just wait till thats done...
I've been dying for some dwarf water lettuce... It would be in all my tanks and bowls and my pond...


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Lol sorry for the confusion, don't know why I thought you were a she. I yanked the HC rock out. 

More nano floaters (except the water lettuce)!


















Dwarf water lettuce starter multipled 3x, RRF turned very red. I just got some salvinia minima. Been hauling new growth of frogbits/rrf into other tanks.


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

Whoa xenxes. Since the last picture you posted to help me out your dwarf water lettuce has spread like crazy! When did you add that water lettuce in? Why so many different floaters btw? I don't like that duckweed


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## Eldachleich (Jul 9, 2011)

xenxes said:


> Lol sorry for the confusion, don't know why I thought you were a she. I yanked the HC rock out.
> 
> More nano floaters (except the water lettuce)!
> 
> Dwarf water lettuce starter multipled 3x, RRF turned very red. I just got some salvinia minima. Been hauling new growth of frogbits/rrf into other tanks.


It fine... 
I don't think I know what you are... He?
Maybe..
lol...

I would love some dwarf water lettuce in the future..
Been dying for that stuff..


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

Xenxes is a he. You can see his reflection!!!


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## Ckent42 (Oct 27, 2011)

What are the dimensions of the hagen mini filter? I want to set up an extreme pico, but I hate the sound of air pumps and bubbles constantly going, so I'm hoping that will fit. Awesome tank, btw, I wish any of my tanks looked half that good.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Hagen Elite Mini - Dimensions: 2 x 2.8 x 8.5 inches ; 8 ounces

It took a little tweaking to get it silent, otherwise you hear this bzzzzzzzing sound. Just make sure all parts are stable and it's level.


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## Ckent42 (Oct 27, 2011)

Alright thanks! Is it possible to use it any way other then vertical? Like, could I make a sort of undergravel filter with it?


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

I don't know.. the intake areas are on the bottom and on the left of the thing, if you're just using large particle gravel I'm sure it's doable (but dirt/sand will definitely clog it, even with supergluing sponge as prefilter). 

I like to keep mine near the water surface so it causes movement, otherwise you get sticky protein films.


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## Ckent42 (Oct 27, 2011)

Well I have one of the smallest critter keepers, which actually makes a really nice looking tank, but I think that's the only way I could get it to fit in there, or along the backside, but it would be cool to hide it. So I would think that gravel would make it ok, and the outflow would be pointed like straight up, so wouldn't that move the surface, only about 5 inches above?


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

I don't think it would reach the water surface unless you put it on high, but then it would create a tornado inside a pico. I would much rather have a HOB for a pico, gives you more water volume too. Azoo Mignon a good choice, but I think my 1/2g is too small.


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## Ckent42 (Oct 27, 2011)

The keeper is about 4.5 inches tall, 6.5 inches long, and 4 inches wide, so I'm unsure what type of filtration would be small enough.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Only 4.5" tall? Hm, an internal Hagen Elite is probably your best bet. 

It's actually 3" tall, 2" wide and 1.5" depth. Amazon description was probably for the packaging.


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## Ckent42 (Oct 27, 2011)

Oh! Ok, that's what I was wondering, because looking at the small size of some of the tanks it's been fit in, I though that 8.5 inched was much too tall, thanks!


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

I was about to dump this thing and throw it out the trash when I saw this...


















Meet Lucky, the betta fry. I think one of the eggs must have gotten stuck to a frogbit I threw in here last week, and somehow managed to hatch and survive until now. May leave him in here for another week, he's feeding happily off microworms twice a day. I think I threw the other fry in the 5g too early and it was too deep for them to surface, not seeing any but hoping they're just hiding.


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

You were going to throw this tank away ?


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Yea, then the 2gs. Super-picos fluctuate too much imo. Think I'll stick to 10g+ in the future, when I get more space.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

wow, already showing color. 
was probably living off of infusorians and substrate worms and such. 
what are the parents?


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

Hm... so have you been busy lately? Taking the test? How is everything? I missed your daily updates with colorful pictures haha


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Still waiting for results  Trying to keep busy. Went on vacation for a week.

Been working on a few websites to kill some time, one of them is actually similar to this forum, but with terrestrial gardening. Pet project, we'll see how it goes


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

@[email protected] said:


> wow, already showing color.
> was probably living off of infusorians and substrate worms and such.
> what are the parents?


Parents are in the 2 gallons in my signature. One blue/pink-red, one thai-flag colored. Petco/smart garden variety.

Breeding was fairly easy. If I didn't make a lot of newbie mistakes I'd have hundreds of fry still alive. I think the main thing was moving them out from the breeding container into the grow out tank too early. 

I thought a heavily planted tank with plenty of moss would give them microfauna to feed on. I still supplemented with microworms and infusoria twice a day, but it seems like they hid until they starved instead of coming out to feed. Thinking the tank was too deep? Not really sure


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

xenxes said:


> Still waiting for results  Trying to keep busy. Went on vacation for a week.
> 
> Been working on a few websites to kill some time, one of them is actually similar to this forum, but with terrestrial gardening. Pet project, we'll see how it goes


When do results come out? I'm sure you did fine haha.

How was your vacation? mind me asking where you went since you're already in Florida and all (that's where I would want to go for vacation lol).

Did the planted tank hobby die down a bit for you:icon_ques


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## kcartwright856 (Jan 16, 2012)

You should think about ROAKing the tanks before throwing them away.

I'm sure there are folks out there that would be happy to pay for the shipping.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Maybe the Spec might be worth shipping, the vase is $10 @ Walmart and the plastic cube's $7 shipped @ Amazon, you'd be paying more for used.


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

Where would you put both betta if you were to break all those tanks down? Or are you no longer going to?


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Day 0









Day 3

The tail is slightly bent, constipation or disease?


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

I'm thinking birth defect or something like that?


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## Ckent42 (Oct 27, 2011)

It's always really neat to find unexpected animals in the tank haha, I once found an adult pacific tree frog that snuck into my vivarium on a bit of grass I had collected.
I do have one more question about that mini filter.......would it be possible to run it with it pouring water out into open air? For example, could just the base be set in a like 2 inches of water, and then the water spill out of the top? Or could it be attached to 1/2 or 1/4 inch tubing to pump water up a few inches? I really wish I could afford to just buy one myself, and I might do so soon, but unfortunately, college gets in the way of the fun stuff.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

The output nozzle can be above water, but just barely. The instructions recommend that you submerge the entire filter at least 2" below water level.


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## Highrev15k (Mar 31, 2012)

I made one of these today but used a Aquatech 5-15 HOB filter from walmart and it fits perfectly, the only thing that needs to be done is shorten the intake tube.

I pulled up on the tube to slow down the filter and it seems to be working perfectly.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Take a pic 

+1 on HOBs with these tiny things, more water volume is better.


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## Chizpa305 (Feb 13, 2011)

xenxes said:


>


Wow, this picture is sick. Frigging amazing!!! Is it photoshoped or is it all natural? :confused1:

I also like the idea of the avocado very interesting.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Natural, that was with a point and shoot camera surprisingly. 

Lol the avocado was cause I didn't have a spare jar lying around. Easy to germinate. Good nitrate absorber too.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

This is now a daphnia "tank" -- filter removed.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

oh my god, theyre everywhere!


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

What happened to the baby betta? Full tank shot!


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Looks pretty gross, never cleaned up, yeast-residue on plastic

















Trying to spawn CPDs, threw a pair in here. It wasn't this mossy 2 weeks ago.

Baby betta's in the vase now


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

Wow you increased the amount of containers you have haha. That baby betta looks uh... really bent out of shape @[email protected]


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Lol I still have this crappy plastic cube, full of little limnophila aromatic stems


















I haven't fed the daphnia in forever, there's only a few lurking around.


If you're wondering I'm going to eat this stuff  Goes in pho:


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

Wait.. eat the limnophila aromatic in the cube? Or that plant behind it?


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

l. aromatica is an herb (tastes like cumin/lemon) that goes in Vietnamese noodles (pho), gonna wait for emergent growth tho


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

Wow! Didn't know that! What about the plant behind it in the planter? Do you use that in cooking as well?

And you know how to make Vietnamese dishes?


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Just some basil and oregano behind it, tomato plant in the aerogarden, though I should just stick to herbs. 

With Google and the right spices I know how to make all kinds of dishes


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

that poor betta has one of the worst toplines ive ever seen.
at least its got a nice tank to make up for it.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

@[email protected] said:


> that poor betta has one of the worst toplines ive ever seen.
> at least its got a nice tank to make up for it.


Yea, breeders would definitely cull it. 










Really bright and colorful though, no trouble swimming. She's nomming on algae wafers (weird fish) in my community while I redo the plants in her bowl.


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

Hunchback of Notre Dam ._.


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

So sad to see the cube (which inspired me to try the very same cube) roughly torn down. I think you should try a full carpet tank LOL. Carpet on 4 sides. A shrimp heaven.


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## SpecGrrl (Jul 26, 2012)

Why you abandon the daphnia?!. Why?!?


Am. Thinking of doing a daphnia culture. And now I want to put lim. Aromatica in my riparium.


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## Geniusdudekiran (Dec 6, 2010)

Is that a beluga whale or a betta? :hihi:


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## Geniusdudekiran (Dec 6, 2010)

Btw -- I am incredibly envious of your apartment!


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## Geniusdudekiran (Dec 6, 2010)

Any update?


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## stevencaller (Sep 14, 2012)

I'm glad you aren't using that for a betta fish, shrimp and snails are the only things that can live happily in that tank.


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

Lol. I think the whole site knows this one. This thread is very old. The tank is now housing some plants, but we were hoping he would update us. 


From MABJ's iPhone
2G Fluval Spec ~ fauna and flora in the works!


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## Geniusdudekiran (Dec 6, 2010)

MABJ said:


> Lol. I think the whole site knows this one. This thread is very old. The tank is now housing some plants, but we were hoping he would update us.
> 
> 
> From MABJ's iPhone
> 2G Fluval Spec ~ fauna and flora in the works!


It's only 8 months old!

But extremely informative and helpful nevertheless.


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

I completely agree  


From MABJ's iPhone
2G Fluval Spec ~ fauna and flora in the works!


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