# white slime algea?



## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

So this white stuff is only on the surface? I understand you said it's clogging your filters, but I'm asking where it is visibly within the tank. Just the surface? Not the glass, plants, substrate, or anywhere else, right?

I'm not sure it's algae. It may be a protein layer or maybe a bacteria. If it's just on the surface, then it's floating, indicating that it's lighter than water.

What is the overall condition of the tank? You know the drill. How long has the tank been setup? How big is the tank? What fauna and flora is in it? What is the lighting, CO2, ferts, etc.?

I'd also like to add to the normal round of questions, what have you been feeding the fish? Have any fish died?

Can you show us a FTS of the tank?

What does this stuff feel like when you rub it between your fingers? Is it slimy, greasy, rough, gritty, stringy, anything? Bring it to your nose; does it have a smell? Does it wash off your fingers easily or do you have to use soap to get it off?

Have you done any maintenance to your tank recently? To your filters? Used any lubricants on filter o-rings lately? Any DIY CO2?

The more you can tell us, the better chance we have of figuring out what this stuff might be. Once it can be identified, then it can be determined how it got in your tank and how to get rid of it.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Drop a couple pieces of flake food on the surface. Does the white stuff immediately pull away from the area the food landed?


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

What are your ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate readings?


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Found this. There is a white film caused by Eisenbacteria (Iron bacteria). It's mentioned about halfway down this page: http://aquariumalgae.blogspot.com/2007/06/as-we-can-see-in-this-article-algae.html

Proper name for the bacteria is: Eisen Bacteria (not one word as the article indicates).


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Sorry for so many posts in a row, but I'm obviously curious! I found this thread which might be helpful: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=78685


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

Complexity said:


> So this white stuff is only on the surface? I understand you said it's clogging your filters, but I'm asking where it is visibly within the tank. Just the surface? Not the glass, plants, substrate, or anywhere else, right?
> 
> I'm not sure it's algae. It may be a protein layer or maybe a bacteria. If it's just on the surface, then it's floating, indicating that it's lighter than water.
> 
> ...








Complexity said:


> What are your ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate readings?


sorry for delay been a crazy day. it started just on the surface, so to speak. I first noticed it clogging my filter, so i pulled the filter media and rinsed it trying to remove as much of it as i could. when i put it back in the housing i saw a large amount of it get pushed out of the filter and into the tank. forgive me i don't remember if it was before or after the filter rinse that i added two new peacock gudgeons. i also increased the temp in the tank from 75 or 76 to 78 in an attempt to encourage spawning. but getting back to the stuff. it never attached itself to anything in my tank, it just free floated.

this was about a week ago or so. i have notice that most if the pieces have trapped air bubbles. i did two water changes today on the tank in an attempt to remove as much of it as possible. the first change was 5 gal, the second is almost 9 gal on a 20g long tank. i didn't even think to test water params before i did the changes. 

the tank has been running about 3 months. its got some parva, hygro compact, micro sword, rangeri sword. another plant i still have no idea what it is, some dwarf sag, and red lotus bulb that hasn't done anything yet. 

it has 3 peacock gudgeons (it was 4 until about 2 hrs ago i lost a female her belly got inflated and she lost orientation) it also contains a colony of RCS, 5 ottos, and a couple nerite snails. no CO2 no ferts, i run a 30" coralife T5NO for about 12hrs a day, sometimes more, sometimes less.

i feed bloodworms, spirilina brine shrimp, glass worms, emerald entree, yadda yadda. the ottos and shrimp get algea wafers, and most of jakes various invert foods.


fts= full tank shot?

its slimey and smooth. i haven't smelled it yet, cus frankly i don't want to. it comes off my fingers fairly easily.

i think thats everything


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

oh and its def not your basic surface film


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Yeah, I could tell it's not a basic surface film just from your photographs. I'm thinking it's a bacteria film, perhaps the iron bacteria that was mentioned. However, since you're not dosing iron, that seems unlikely.

FTS = Full Tank Shot :smile:

I know I posted a lot of info yesterday, but please go through it all. There were a few questions I asked that you didn't answer, such as what happens when you drop a flake of food on it.

There are various methods for cleaning up any kind of surface film (including those that are not the traditional surface scum we normally see). You might want to give a couple techniques a try. I think the two most common ones are to place a paper towel on the surface and allow it to absorb the film as much as possible. Then do a water change using the mouth of the water changer intake tube as a surface skimmer. Hold the tube under water and then bring the mouth of the tube to the surface. It should suck up whatever's on the surface. Be sure to rinse the water changer a few times before using it to put water back in the tank. You may have to repeat this several times to get it all.

Then the question is whether it's going to come back or not. Most people reporting a similar problem reported that it constantly came back no matter what they did. The final solution for many was to either add a surface skimmer to their tank or to change their filtration so it would disturb the surface enough to break up the film, pushing it into the water column where the filters could then clean it out.

Since it's in your filtration system, it may take a number of repeated clean outs before you can get it down to a manageable level.

Meanwhile, I'd be careful of what food you use. It's possible one of your foods is causing this, but it's hard to say which one it might be. The only way to know is to limit the foods to only one or two prepackaged foods that you can be certain aren't causing it (flake, pellets, wafers). If you can get the film down to a manageable level, then you can reintroduce the other foods, one at a time, to see if they cause any problems. If they're okay after a week or so, then I think you can probably consider it okay and move on to reintroduce one of the other foods. Obviously, if you feed a food and the film returns or increases, then you'll know to suspect that food.

I'll throw out another idea, but it's pretty nutty. If this is a bacteria of some sort, you might treat the tank with a bacteria medication. Which one I have no clue. And I have no clue if it would make any difference. So this could do more harm than good. Maybe you could move some of the film to another container and dose bacteria meds there to see what happens. This is definitely grasping at straws, but I thought I'd throw the idea out there. Maybe it can help springboard other ideas?

I wish I could help more. I'd really like to know what this is.


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

sorry the questions i didn't answer i wasn't able test because i had done the water change already, and the film was gone. i didn't want to test parms because i figured it would be false readings because i use a gravel vac, and skimmed all of the stuff off the surface that i could. i probably should have done a test when i noticed one of my gudgeons was dying but at that point i felt so bad for her i didn't even want to look at the tank.

the first link, the one about the iron bacteria, was of no help as my film was about a 1/4 inch to 1/2inch thick, and was mostly made up of the "bacteria" and not film.

i'm very convinced it has nothing do with iron, but that being said i'm not 100% sure what could have caused it.

so far two days after the water changes there is no film on the surface of the water, but i think that is because i removed so of it during the water changes. the only problem i can physically see now is that water is not a viscous as water normally is. it seems to be slightly thicker, but like i said there is no visiable film now.

also i do not think it is related the water that i am using because it the same RO/DI water that i use on all of my tanks,( i am having no such issue in any other tank) and the LFS that i get the water from is not having any issues with surface film.

i debated putting a clean filter, but my LFS talked me out of it because they fear that by removing the good bacteria that is already establish in the old filter it maybe allow this this film time to repopulate and take over again. i did however pull my power head and let it dry out over night, and then put it back in my tank. it is again running at full power and does not appear to be clogged at all.

sadly i can no limit my foods to pellet wafer or flake because my gudgeons refuse to eat those types of food. but i have cut down to only emerald entree and bloodworms.

if i remember correctly most bacteria meds contain copper? which if that is the case i am scared to use them as i do also have a large population of RCS on that tank, along with a few nerite snails and i def do not want to kill them.

like i said earlier i think the cause may have been a three step process. the introduction of two new gudgeons (who may have had this bacteria on their skin) increased feeding which gave an extra food source to the bacteria, and then increasing the temp 3 degrees which made the water more suitable for bacterial growth.

i'm not sure if i mentioned it before but that tank has about 1 1/2 to 2 inches of eco-complete. and i did at one point in the past 2 months add flourish root tabs to the tank.



here is that FTS you are so fond of 









oh look at that you can see two of my gudgeons in the photo lol!


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

so i woke up this morning to 2 dead shrimp (i have lost one shrimp in the 3months or so this tank has been up and running) and one of my male gudgeons is acting funny. compared to how my other three are acting (could be normal for him) but he doesn't swim quit normal and is abnormally jerky in his swimming movements, and rubs his head against the gravel rather often.


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## rocketdude1234 (Apr 8, 2010)

Will check your ammonia and nitrite readings. If you get readings, perform a w/c, add some prime even if you don't get readings. 

Has it come back on the surface and is your water still kinda "thicker?"

Hey, I have to ask, why on earth is your filter intake bent lol


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

rocketdude1234 said:


> Will check your ammonia and nitrite readings. If you get readings, perform a w/c, add some prime even if you don't get readings.
> 
> Has it come back on the surface and is your water still kinda "thicker?"
> 
> Hey, I have to ask, why on earth is your filter intake bent lol



no it hasn't come back yet...thank fully but i am noticing that my 10g shrimp tank is starting form something on the surface...i'm doing a small wc on it tonight to slow whatever it is.

i didn't even think about a mini cycle from all that bacteria. i'm gonna go test that now and see where it is at. the water looks like water again:red_mouth. i did a 10% wc on it this morning and i am going to continue that for the next few days.

the intake is bent because in my furry they other day i may have dipped it in boiling water:iamwithst, i think it adds a nice touch of customization to the tank roud:


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

o sniffed the tank last night. and it smells funky, not really sure how to descibe it but it smells off


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Something really isn't right. The reports of a surface film, even the ones caused by bacteria, did not indicate that it caused problems with fish or inverts dying. I think the two may be connected.

The smell also concerns me. I'm glad I suggested that you smell it even though I'm sure it wasn't on the list of things you really wanted to do!

BTW, bacteria meds do not necessarily contain copper. The thing is I'm not sure what you're dealing with so I'm not sure which med to recommend or even if a med is the right thing to try.

Thank you for the FTS. It does say a lot about the tank. Your tank is very clean. It appears to be pretty new (or you've done a thorough job of cleaning it out which wouldn't surprise me given your situation). Whatever you've got going on in that tank, it's certainly not due to poor maintenance or a build-up of decaying matter of any kind.

If the film washes off your hands easily, then it most likely doesn't contain fat. Think of how oils and butters require soap to wash off.

I have never heard of a surface film that accumulated to 1/4" to 1/2" in thickness. That is incredibly thick!

Since this stuff appears to be transferring to at least one of your other tanks, it appears to be "alive" in some respect in that it can hitch a ride on something physical and then increase in numbers or size after that. If there was something in one tank that was producing it, I would not expect it to be able to increase in numbers or size even if a little bit transferred into another tank. It has to be able to reproduce itself somehow to be able to do that. Reproduction indicates it's alive somehow. So it's not something that's being caused by your tank. It would appear to be something that's infected your tank.

We need someone to look at this who knows more about bacteria than I do.

In the meantime, I think it would be a good idea to perform frequent water changes. I don't know what conditions the gudgeons require, but it appears the water is not healthy at this time so clean fresh water should be helpful. It would also serve to help combat the problem through physical removal of whatever that stuff is.

If it is indeed a bacteria, you may be able to kill it using a uv sterilizer. Fortunately, bacteria is one of the first things a uv sterilizer kills (meaning you don't need a super powerful one to do the job). Is that something you'd be willing to even consider?

I'm going to shoot Diana a PM to see if she'll take a look at this thread. She knows more about bacteria than I do. Maybe she'll have some ideas of what this stuff is and/or how to get rid of it.


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

gudgeons require very clean water to be healthy and breed well, so this tank has been, over the course of time, the cleanest tank i have, the glass doesn't even get algea. this tank is about 3 or 4 months old now...i set it up in mid to late march i believe.

a new up date on what is currently happening. i noticed that a few of my ottos had what appeared to be bloody, or irritated areas around theirs mouths, and with in the past few days they have stopped spending time on the glass. 

just now i found out why. i moved the light forward to get a better look at a few shrimp and saw tiny green planaria, and also a even smaller bug of some type scooting along the glass. this bug is so small i can't even give ya shape or any details but that i think it has two anteni? i also noticed a whole bunch of fresh snail eggs on the same glass. they bug i can say for certain is not a snail because it moves far to fast to be a snail.

this whole thing is so very far beyond all of my knowledge the only thing i can think to do is frequent water changes. at this point i would almost be okay if the solution was to treat with a medication that killed my shrimp pop.

i am definitely not against a UV sterilizer, but that would have to wait until at the earliest saturday, as i get paid friday but i can't collect my check until noon and i work at 2pm so not much time to purchase one and get it set up, assuming i could find it locally.



edit: i am thinking about upping from one 20% water change daily, to two at 10-20% depending.


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

okay after a closer inspection of the tiny bugs, they do infact have two anteni, a round body and a tail. 

also i noticed that i no have a dead horned nerite snail as well.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

I do 50% water changes on a regular basis even on my "low tech" tanks, and if I have a water quality issue, I'll do even more. I've been known to do back-to-back 90% water changes, if needed. There is nothing wrong with changing out the water, and when the existing water is questionable, then changing out the water can actually be the best thing you can do for a tank.

When a tank has some kind of unknown thick film, planaria, and unidentified bugs while fish, shrimp, and snails are dying – it's definitely time to change out the water. If this was my tank, I'd be changing out much more than just 10-20% of the water. I'd start off with at least an 80% water change, possibly two 80% water changes back-to-back in order to physically remove as much of the bad stuff as I could.

Meanwhile, I'll look in my bug resources to see if I can find anything that matches your description of the bugs you found.


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

I have been following this thread.
The key things I see are:
Clear goo, so not photosynthetic. Not algae, not photosynthesizing bacteria. Perhaps fungus? Perhaps bacteria? Perhaps a byproduct of something else in the tank?
Reproduces (moves from one tank to another, perhaps via hands or tools), so not excess slime coat from distressed fish. (Way too much of it, too, given the stocking list) Or else something that got into both tanks from a common contaminant (A child dropped some Knox Gelatin in the tanks?)
That is a very thick build up (to 1/2" thick). Many bacteria live in biofilms with other organisms, but these develop slowly, and are usually attached to something. Not always, and the common surface scum seem in aquariums with little or no water movement can be of that sort. I do not think the problem presented in this thread is the common surface scum, though. Will recognizes that, and says it is not. The fast development suggests it is something else, too. 

I feed many of the same things and do not see anything like that. Not saying it is not related to the food, just that I have not seen it. I have some tanks with little or no surface movement, and I have seen the common surface scum, but never this thick layer. If it has come as a contaminant in something there would have to have been a lot of 'something' or else the goo is alive and reproduced. A little bit of contaminant got in and reproduced. 

Treatment:
1) Water changes and surface agitation seem to have removed it. Temporarily? 
2) UV is probably a very good way to go, and remember to keep the UV clean. Take it apart as much as needed to clean it, or run something through it to clean it. Read the instructions on the UV to learn the best way to clean it. I think if this goo gets into the UV and sticks it will impede the light. 
3) Removing some goo to a separate container and testing a few things would be a good idea. If you have any fish meds, that you are willing to use on your tank, then test those first:
Salt
H2O2
Excel
Fish meds (No, many are not copper.)
~ 'Organic' meds like Melafix, Pimafix or Ich Attack
~ 'Other' meds: Anti fungal, anti bacterial, anti algae, anti parasite. 
Anti fungus meds are often really anti bacterial, because several fish diseases are actually caused by bacteria, but have the word 'fungus' in their name. Read the active ingredients, and be sure you actually have a medicine that is active against real fungi. 
Anti bacterial meds come in several types, and act better against some bacteria than others. Some have anti fungal properties, too. 
Bacteriostatic meds slow the growth or reproduction of bacteria, but do not actually kill it. These are useful when the disease is on a fish, then the fishes' own immune system takes over and finishes off the bacteria. This might be a way to go in this situation, too, but I doubt it. 
Any habitat (including an aquarium) has a lot of microorganisms. Many are good, some are neutral, some are bad. They live in balance with each other. By increasing the populations of the good and the neutral you may be reducing the population of bad organisms. This is hard to do: How does a medication 'know' which are good, neutral or bad? You could increase the population of good and neutral by adding them from a bottle. I have no idea if it would help. 
Gram negative and Gram positive are some of the ways to ID bacteria, depending on how they look when stained. Some medicines seem more active against one type or another. Some meds are active against both sorts. 
Anti algae meds vary from the organic Barley Extract (About useless as far as I have tried it) to killer things that I do not want near my tanks. If you want to try anything like this read the label and do lots of research. Algae meds are made for 3 things: Ornamental fountains and swimming pools with no life (toxic to fish and plants)
Fish-only set ups (May be toxic to plants)
Fish-and-plant safe materials. 
Anti parasite meds may have some other properties. I would think of these last, though. This goo is not a parasite, and some anti parasite meds will stain the silicone. 

The death of livestock: I have not idea if this goo is directly or indirectly responsible for the death of fish or shrimp. I would simply keep on cleaning, water changing and so on, and make sure the replacement water is appropriate for the livestock. 

Cleaning the filter and media:
I have sprayed off filter media with a pretty strong jet of water to get rid of stuff. If the media is at all thick (like a sponge) or dense (like floss) it also needs to be worked by hand, squeezing and flexing it. Be careful doing this, you can damage the fibers and ultimately have to toss the media. 
To get more aggressive, perhaps chemically cleaning the media to get rid of goo, can kill the beneficial bacteria. If you want to do this, then get a bottle that includes _Nitrospira_ to replace the bacteria you have killed. Obviously, replacing the media with new media will also need some bacterial help.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Diana, H2O2 can kill certain bacteria and fungus, correct? What if he put 1-2ml per gallon of H2O2 in the tank, let it circulate for 30 minutes, and then did a large water change. At worst, it won't do anything other than oxygenate the tank. At best, it might kill whatever this stuff is. It won't hurt his good bacteria, fauna, or flora. Maybe a good first thing to try out?


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## rocketdude1234 (Apr 8, 2010)

Complexity, I agree with you about the big water changes, but also gravel vac really well. Planaria almost always show up when there is an accumulation of stuff around the tank.

Will, did the stuff transfer tanks?


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

Diana said:


> The key things I see are:
> Clear goo, so not photosynthetic. Not algae, not photosynthesizing bacteria. Perhaps fungus? Perhaps bacteria? Perhaps a byproduct of something else in the tank?
> Reproduces (moves from one tank to another, perhaps via hands or tools), (Way too much of it, too, given the stocking list) Or else something that got into both tanks from a common contaminant (A child dropped some Knox Gelatin in the tanks?)
> That is a very thick build up (to 1/2" thick). Many bacteria live in biofilms with other organisms, but these develop slowly, and are usually attached to something.
> ...



okay lets go 

are there things i could be looking for to narrow down if it was fungus, or bacteria or byproduct? 

i can say for certain that nothing was accidentally dropped in the tank that shouldn't have been. i live alone, and the location is impossible for my cats to accsess. the only forgein objects that enter this tank are milk jugs, my hands and my net. i have recently started using a bowl during water changes to help disperse the water, but i do that on all of my tanks. a 1/2inch of build up is on the high side i would say, it was more likely closer to 1/4inch but i didn't break out my ruler to check, and i hadn't yet had coffee.

i do still see globs float around the tank from time to time. infact yesterday when i pulled my filter to check and see how much was attached to it, i saw a few globs flow out and into the tank, so i know it is still present in the tank, but just not in high numbers. this maybe due the increased water changes, decreased feeding, and lowering of the tank temp.

i initially stated i had seen it moved to another tank, my 10g shrimp which was the first tank i cleaned after the infected tank (no silly me did not rinse the gravel vac before moving on). after careful observation over the past few days i am not yet convinced that it has for certain moved into that tank. the 10g tank does have surface film, but it does not have the white globs that appeared in the first tank. however there are some noted differences, the 10g tank is on a light timer and gets (i think it is at 9hrs of light) for most of the day while the light is off on that tank it gets overflow light from the tank next to it. the 10g tank also has much much better surface agitation (fluval nano with a spray bar set above the surface line) but has less filtration. i am continuing to monitor but so far i am not totally convinced it has moved tanks.

as for the treatments
1. i think is only a temporary solution.
2. as i said i am open to, but i would prefer to know what i am dealing with before using UV. also i am kind of unfamiliar with it in the aquarium world, are there many draw backs to UV?
3.i have not seen the goo long enough to get my net, catch it and test it elsewhere. but if I do i will be doing that. i do not have any meds on hand (never needed any) i would prefer to not blindly dose medication, if that is an option.


i firmly believe that the goo is diectly related to the deaths, before the goo i had lost only 1 fish and a couple shrimp, and a cpo. cpo was lost due to lack of feeding on my part, and the fish was lost while a friend was watching my tanks so i have no idea what happened there. since the goo (less than a week ago) i have lost one fish, about 5 shrimp, and one nerite snail. all of the shrimp were young, not much older than juveniles, if that old.

i don't think the filter media will take another cleaning. it really needs to be replaced. actually now that i mention it, the filter media was not the aqueon brand filter media, but an off brand that i purchased for much cheaper from a LFS. if i were to replaced the filter media, could it in another tank that is not infected and after a few days or so transfer the media to the tank. could that help or hinder the situation?








rocketdude1234 said:


> Complexity, I agree with you about the big water changes, but also gravel vac really well. Planaria almost always show up when there is an accumulation of stuff around the tank.
> 
> Will, did the stuff transfer tanks?


every water change since the outbreak has involved a gravel vac. thats why i am so surprised to see the planaria out. i was also surprised to see the planaria clinging to the glass and not the substrate.


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

well nevermind on it not being in my shrimp tank, i just saw some very small globs floating around the tank *curses*


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Take out a glob and put some H2O2 on it. Let's see if it fizzes or anything.


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

That will have to wait till Tuesday. I won't have time tomorrow as I do not have any h2o2 on hand. But I will most certainly pull one as son as I see it again.


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## stlouisan (Jun 8, 2006)

I'm definitely following this thread. I have recently come across a slimy surface scum in my well established tank that develops over some time(week or so), but nothing near the extent of what you have. I have a surface skimmer, and surface agitation, and the scum is viscous enough not to be skimmed and blocking the agitation if left unattended. I don't want to sound hijacking, but you're not alone with this funny scum. Yours just happens to be more interesting, LOL!


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

so i was able to catch a few small few small pieces that i have kept in a tupperware. today i dumped some H202 in the container with the pieces. there was no fizzle or anything, but i did just re-read the message and i am going to try it with a piece out of the water and see if it makes any difference. 

i also bought some excel and i plan to dose in a tupperware container (as soon as i catch more peices) and see what effect if any it has.


Edit: okay I was able find another floater. I spooned it out and added h2o2, again no fizzle or anything. But after two or so hours sitting in the h2o2 it looks like it has broken down some. It is still holding on to the air bubbles though. So I guess that would mean its not bacterial right?


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

stlouisan said:


> I'm definitely following this thread. I have recently come across a slimy surface scum in my well established tank that develops over some time(week or so), but nothing near the extent of what you have. I have a surface skimmer, and surface agitation, and the scum is viscous enough not to be skimmed and blocking the agitation if left unattended. I don't want to sound hijacking, but you're not alone with this funny scum. Yours just happens to be more interesting, LOL!


Idk how similar ours are but mine bloomed over night, from basically nothing to clogging everything


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## stlouisan (Jun 8, 2006)

mine's is nothing at all like what you have. mine takes about a week or so to develop, and so far i have been breaking it up for water changes. it's strange in that even though i have surface skimming and some surface turbulence, it still develops well enough to not get skimmed and form directly over the turbulence. it's slimy/slick, doesn't smell, doesn't break up when i drop fish food on it. i figured it was in relation to a high amount of organic matter in the water column; i recently moved and had to deal with filling and refilling the tank. it stirred up some gunk, and hopefully the regular water changes will clear it up. 

Your stuff reminds me of Kombucha mushroom, or like a vineagar mother. LOL


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

stlouisan said:


> mine's is nothing at all like what you have. mine takes about a week or so to develop, and so far i have been breaking it up for water changes. it's strange in that even though i have surface skimming and some surface turbulence, it still develops well enough to not get skimmed and form directly over the turbulence. it's slimy/slick, doesn't smell, doesn't break up when i drop fish food on it. i figured it was in relation to a high amount of organic matter in the water column; i recently moved and had to deal with filling and refilling the tank. it stirred up some gunk, and hopefully the regular water changes will clear it up.
> 
> Your stuff reminds me of Kombucha mushroom, or like a vineagar mother. LOL




lol now that you mention it, vinegar mother is very similar looking to what i have.


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## HighDesert (May 8, 2012)

Aquatic Delight said:


> lol now that you mention it, vinegar mother is very similar looking to what i have.


I was literally just coming to post here about the possibility of it being due to acidity! I went to move some stuff out of my studio today and there was a whitish-clear slime growing (it looks like a fungus, maybe) in my citric acid bath, since I hadn't had it heated in a week or two. I really do wonder if you've got some sort of acid-loving nastiness in your tank. I will take photos of my slime on Saturday. I just thought it was noteworthy, and then you guys were talking about Kombucha (those things are so gross -- when I was in my late teens my brother gave us one and it was like herpes; within a few weeks the whole town had them and were desperately trying to get rid of them. Many a compost pile saw Kombuchas that year) and vinegar mothers. Have you checked your pH lately?


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

What in the world is a vinegar mother? I've never heard of it. (Yes, I have hard water.)


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## stlouisan (Jun 8, 2006)

Vineagar mother is a jelly-like mushroomy mass that forms in the process of natural vineagar making. It's what naturally ferments the sugars and makes the acid in grape juice or apple juice to make red wine vineagar or apple cider vineagar. Kombucha is pretty much like it too, using sweet tea and only lightly fermented.

However, I can't see anything in a fish tank that would have that much sugar content to do that. I wonder if you are using a bad excel or some bad organic fert that could be feeding this bacteria colony?

I haven't seen any scum so far from my water change last week (30% change), so hopefully your scum will dissipate after more diligent manual removal and water changes. 

HighDesert: i love your Kombucha story, funny! I tried Kombucha myself and I couldn't get past the stinky-feet-tea smell.


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

stlouisan said:


> Vineagar mother is a jelly-like mushroomy mass that forms in the process of natural vineagar making. It's what naturally ferments the sugars and makes the acid in grape juice or apple juice to make red wine vineagar or apple cider vineagar. Kombucha is pretty much like it too, using sweet tea and only lightly fermented.
> 
> However, I can't see anything in a fish tank that would have that much sugar content to do that. I wonder if you are using a bad excel or some bad organic fert that could be feeding this bacteria colony?
> 
> ...



like i said, its similar to a vinegar mother, but i googled vinegar mother, and i couldn't find a single mother that looked like the one i had (lol). so who knows. a friend of mine gave me maracyn 1 and maracyn 2 to dose with. i'm going to dose one, moniter and see what happens. if it does nothing i will dose the second one, which will tell me if its gram positive or negative, assuming it works.

i have been seriously thinking about what is different about this tank than any other tank i have. i have come to notice a couple different things about this tank.

1. it sits higher in my apt than any other tank, close to six feet high at the surface.
2. there is an a/c vent on the otherside of the room that blows almost directly on it. the tank is about a foot to the right of the vent.
3. the tank sits very close to my dishwasher, i have enough space to open the door to the dishwasher. i ran vinegar through that dishwasher about a month ago, the same vinegar i had the "vinegar mother" in.


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## stlouisan (Jun 8, 2006)

hmm for me, where I've put when we moved, it was in the path of there a vent was blowing. Maybe there's a commonality in our situations there, so perhaps whatever dust is blowing out lands and colonizes on the surface? I have since closed it off since it was evaporating my tank really quick. Coincidence that my scum hasn't come back after closing it, followed by water change?


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

mine hasn't bloomed like it had the first time. i think thats because i dropped the temp in the tank, and the daily water changes. 

but it is totally alive in my filter. any flow in the filter beyond what it it does normally and the stuff flies out.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

The vent should be directional so you should be able to turn it around so the air blows the other way. I'm not sure how that will affect the a/c in the room, but if there's anything coming out of the vent and into the tank, that will stop it. Or you could cover the tank, but gaps for hoses and all might still be a problem.

Maybe you can remove the vent cover and look at the ducts with a flashlight to see if there's any mold.

I doubt there's anything form the vinegar in the dishwasher that could be a problem, vinegar mother or not.

I would crank up the filter to let the stuff fly out so you can clean it out (or clean the filter more often, but that might be a real pain). You don't want the filter to become a breeding ground for the stuff.

What kind of filter(s) do you have on the tank? What media are you using?


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

Complexity said:


> The vent should be directional so you should be able to turn it around so the air blows the other way. I'm not sure how that will affect the a/c in the room, but if there's anything coming out of the vent and into the tank, that will stop it. Or you could cover the tank, but gaps for hoses and all might still be a problem.
> 
> Maybe you can remove the vent cover and look at the ducts with a flashlight to see if there's any mold.
> 
> ...



the vent is unreachable for me. i don't have a step ladder or anything, my maintence guy might be able to bring me one to adjust it, and clean it. i think i'm gonna have to get a new Air filter.


why do u doubt the dishwasher? 

i have a quietflow 10 on the tank, its getting a fluval C2 or C3 (i forget what i have) just as soon as i set up the canister filter on my 29g.


on the good side of the news it looks like we have killed it. i dosed it with Maracyn yesterday before i left for work. and today the stuff looks dead. it looks like decaying plant matter now. its not holding air bubbles, its not white anymore. 

and more good news i found another baby peacock gudgeon in the tank 

but still i would love to know what the heck this stuff is was.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

We'll probably never know what it was, but it's very encouraging to hear it may be dead! I'd do a full round of the Maracyn to be sure you get it all and don't let it develop a resistance.

I guess if the Maracyn is able to kill it, that would indicate it was some kind of bacteria, wouldn't it?

And congrats on the baby peacock gudgeon! That's a very positive sign! :smile:


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

blast! i really want to know what it was. the stuff looks like the decaying steam of plant, but a little more stringy.

i will have to pick up some maracyn tomorrow, a friend gave me one dose to try. but if i wanted to find out more about what the bacteria was, how would i go about doing so?


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

The only way I know of to find out what that stuff was would be to find a university professor who works with that kind of stuff. But s/he'd probably need a living sample to look under the microscope for identification.


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## rocketdude1234 (Apr 8, 2010)

Lol, we tried to get one of the guys to bring in a microscope so we could identify it as the beginning of the Zombie Apocalypse, but he never brought it. In his defense though, he said he would probably never get around to bringing it in.

Have no fears nonetheless, we prevented the Zombie Apocalypse with a simple dose of Maracyn. :icon_wink


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## stlouisan (Jun 8, 2006)

zombie apocalypse LOL

well glad it's gone!


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

rocketdude1234 said:


> Lol, we tried to get one of the guys to bring in a microscope so we could identify it as the beginning of the Zombie Apocalypse, but he never brought it. In his defense though, he said he would probably never get around to bringing it in.
> 
> Have no fears nonetheless, we prevented the Zombie Apocalypse with a simple dose of Maracyn. :icon_wink


next time i'll make my zombie disease stronger mwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

but thank you everyone for helping me through this. i greatly appreciate it. 

i set up a canister filter on my 29g yesterday, and i plan to move the HOB from the 29g to the 20l tank i had this outbreak in. its a Fluval c3 and has much better filtration than that quietflow i've had running on it.

thanks again everyone!


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

so it came back....sort of. it didn't take over the tank but it is there. I hit it with H2O2 and it broke up. it hasn't grown since i hit it with the H2O2. anyway here is a video at about 1:20 in you can see the spot i treated with peroxide.


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