# Sump filter flow rate question



## ngrubich (Nov 29, 2011)

What types of fish and plants do you plan on keeping? In my 90 gallon, my angels don't like a lot of flow, so my turnover rate through my sump is relatively low (like 6x per hour). I know with saltwater setups, they "typical" turnover rate is 10x or whatever matches the skimmer. But with freshwater setups, you'll get answers all over the place. Some will say that the lower, the better, as this allows the water to interact with your filtration in your sump a lot longer, leading to a "more-filtered" water. You will also get a lot of answers saying that the more, the better (as long as the fish tolerate it), as this keeps junk from settling as quickly in the display tank, giving you a better shot at the overflow box picking up the particles.


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

5-10x through sump is good. if it has a drip tray closer to 5 is better


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## Kathyy (Feb 22, 2010)

10x for the tank is the rule of thumb but it doesn't all have to come from the sump system, you can use powerheads for some of the water movement. Remember you lose a lot of flow with plumbing and head loss, my 2300gph pumps probably only put 1300-1400gph through the 180 gallon tank. So far so good, haven't put a power head in the tank yet.

Perhaps biological filter bacteria do better with a slower rate of movement but overflow boxes have trouble with all the flow as well. My peninsula overflow box looked huge but could only handle half the flow of my sump pumps so I broke out most of the teeth to increase flow and all is well.


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## Black Hills Tj (Jul 19, 2008)

On my 72, I run 600gph through my sump, and 3 koralia 1400s in the display...


















oh wait, freshwater...

No sumps on my fresh tanks


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## ccar2000 (Sep 3, 2011)

Thanks, this helps. I think I will shoot for 500 gph pump @ 4ft head. Can I get an opinion or rather to buy Ehiem 1260 or Danner mag drive Supreme 7? I have seen excellent reviews on the Ehiem and mixed reviews on the Danner. The aquarium is in my living room so a little noise is acceptable but of course, not preferred.

Thanks again


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## ngrubich (Nov 29, 2011)

Get the mag 7. I have an EHEIM 1262 on my discus tank and it works really well: only drawback is that you have to throttle it with a ball valve in the return line (my Sicce 3.0 on my blackwater setup allows me to throttle the flow directly on the pump). 
The only thing, though is that my 1262 was made in Germany. EHEIM now makes most/all? of their stuff in China = lowered quality. I have tried a few other EHEIM products after I found out they outsourced their stuff to China and definitely noticed the quality difference. Two of the 3 pumps were shot within 2 months. The 3rd had some issues and was really loud. 

In this case, Danner is the way to go for sure, in my opinion and experience. If you are unsure about the review (I don't know where you found them), go to a marine website, like marinedepot. Pumps in SW setups are _usually_ subjected to a lot more abuse, so it's always nice to get reviews from that area. 

With 4ft of head height, you may be better of getting the Mag 9.5. It maxes out at around 800GPH @4ft, but you can always add a ball valve to the return side of the pump to adjust as necessary. With the Mag 7, you'd be pushing around 480GPH @4ft full blast.


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

danner or taam.
danner is quite what it used to be either, and taams are cheapo's but they work quiet well, are very energy efficient for their output and are pretty quiet after a week or two. my taam rio HF17 was noisy for 3 weeks but now i cannot hear it over the trickle from the overflow box. im running about 600-700 gph and its throttle about 1/3 the way down with one inch tubing


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## ccar2000 (Sep 3, 2011)

Cool, thanks again for the help. I think I am going to stick with the Mag 7. That way it can just run with an open outlet and 480 gph +/- loss from a swing check will keep me in the 8 turns/hr range. Although with a bigger pump I could install a bypass loop back to the sump and mount my existing bio-wheel on the sump wall ????


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## ngrubich (Nov 29, 2011)

ccar2000 said:


> Cool, thanks again for the help. I think I am going to stick with the Mag 7. That way it can just run with an open outlet and 480 gph +/- loss from a swing check will keep me in the 8 turns/hr range. Although with a bigger pump I could install a bypass loop back to the sump and mount my existing bio-wheel on the sump wall ????


You could do that. A lot of people like to put Y fittings in the return line so that they can direct some water back to the beginning of the sump, so that it gets filtered again. The thing with doing that is figuring out which size tubing you would want to use for the line that goes back to the beginning of the sump as well as the line that goes back to the display tank, in order to get the turnover number you want. 
This has been discussed pretty heavily in the reef forums, like reefcentral for example, and I'm sure someone has a calculator out there somewhere for it. 

Either way, if the intake of the biowheel filter is long enough, you can just throw it on the sump anyways: I have an AC30 sitting in my sump, constantly filtering in case I need to make up a hospital tank real quick.


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## Black Hills Tj (Jul 19, 2008)

ngrubich said:


> You could do that. A lot of people like to put Y fittings in the return line so that they can direct some water back to the beginning of the sump, so that it gets filtered again. The thing with doing that is figuring out which size tubing you would want to use for the line that goes back to the beginning of the sump as well as the line that goes back to the display tank, in order to get the turnover number you want.
> This has been discussed pretty heavily in the reef forums, like reefcentral for example, and I'm sure someone has a calculator out there somewhere for it.
> 
> Either way, if the intake of the biowheel filter is long enough, you can just throw it on the sump anyways: I have an AC30 sitting in my sump, constantly filtering in case I need to make up a hospital tank real quick.


Wouldnt a decent little ball valve be sufficient at adjustin flow on the return line back to the beginning of the sump?


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## ngrubich (Nov 29, 2011)

Yea that works too, you just want to be sure of the placement of the ball valve so whatever back pressure is formed goes up the return line.


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

Black Hills Tj said:


> Wouldnt a decent little ball valve be sufficient at adjustin flow on the return line back to the beginning of the sump?



yes.


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

Black Hills Tj said:


> Wouldnt a decent little ball valve be sufficient at adjustin flow on the return line back to the beginning of the sump?





HD Blazingwolf said:


> yes.


While a ball valve will work *MUCH* better control is gained by using a gate valve. :fish:


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

wkndracer said:


> While a ball valve will work *MUCH* better control is gained by using a gate valve. :fish:


 i agree, they just seem so constrictive. if its a side pipe, this is irellevant but for the main return line, i've stuck primarily to ball valves


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