# Tom's 20L Journal !!!!56k!!



## tommyboy22481 (Mar 24, 2004)

This is my first planted tank, I had a 5 gallon fish only tank first. 

Substrate is regular gravel
DIY CO2 bottle replaced every 2 weeks or so
Fluval 204 Canister filter
ViaAqua Titanuim tube heater
Flourish SeaChem liquid fertilizer
Under gravel fertilizer sticks
3 50W Halogen bulbs on a dimmer

I had a problem with the plants not doing very well even with CO2 at first, I started using R/O water from the store and they are doing much better now. I originally bought a TetraTec hang on tank filter with the built in heater but it was obnoxiously loud so I got the Fluval. Since I switched to the Fluval my blue green algae problem has also gone away. Moral of the story, don't buy a TetraTec!

Fish are as follows:

Two breeding gold angelfish (I just got lucky, fish were from different stores and bought at different times)
two black skirt tetras
two colored tetras
one blood fin danio??

Sorry the pictures arn't that good, I don't have a digital camera yet.


----------



## ninoboy (Jan 26, 2004)

Very nice tank  I like your halogen set up. Is there any different color temperature for halogen bulbs?


----------



## Tonyd (Jan 22, 2004)

Very neat looking setup, the lights are a nice effect.

Tony


----------



## trenac (Feb 15, 2004)

20G long tanks are the best... Like the light setup...Tank looks good too.


----------



## tommyboy22481 (Mar 24, 2004)

As far as lights go Halogen arn't the best, but they DO work just fine. The color temperature is on the warm side, and they take more power to run than metal halides or flourecent. They are dirt cheap to buy though and as long as you dont get them to close to the tank heat isn't a problem. I have plenty of wattage so even if the spectrum isn't perfect I can just turn them up a little. 

I had the standard covered tank with 1 plant bulb and it worked ok, but I wanted an open tank and flourecents don't work that great from a distance. I would have gotten metal halides but at $100-200 they were way out of my price range. I found this track light set at menards for $25, and I built the vertical metal stand out of aluminum stock for about $10. Add the dimmer for $5 and you have a nice lighting set-up for around $40.


----------



## jread (Jan 2, 2004)

I like it but I don't know about that coral reef background. Needs a solid black background or something like that.


----------



## tommyboy22481 (Mar 24, 2004)

Update: I replanted the stem plants on the right side of the tank, they were getting to big and most of them didn't have any leaves halfway down. They were growing quite nicely and most of the stems had extensive roots that I had to pull out. Now they are a lot shorter and look a lot better. Hope they keep growing! 


> I like it but I don't know about that coral reef background. Needs a solid black background or something like that.


Humm, I hadn't really thought about the background to much I was mostly trying to get the plants to stop dieing.  But now that you mention it yeah the reef background is kinda out of place. Black would be okay, it would make the plants stand out. 

I could just go buy a plastic backdrop like I have now, but since the fluval has suction cups to mount the hoses on the back I think I would like to paint it instead. I'm a little worried that it won't come off though if I change my mind later. I expect a stright razor would work. I have some regular black house paint that I could use, does anyone see a problem with that?


----------



## tommyboy22481 (Mar 24, 2004)

I experimented with painting my 10 gal today, it didn't go so well. I was trying to use stardard house paint and it was waaay to thin. I would have had to put 10 coats on for it to be opaque. I will have to get some glass paint and try again. 

I replanted most everything yesterday and removed the piece of driftwood and rocks. I am going to look for a smaller peice of wood to put in there instead. I moved all the amazon swords over to the left side of the tank with the two lagest ones in the center with the smaller ones around it. I put the camboba(?) along the back and the wisteria and the other stem plants I have on the right. This created a large open area in the middle that I am going to try to grow micro grass in. I got a small patch and I'm going to see how it does before I get any more. 

I am experimenting with the CO2 jello recipe found here. It's been going pretty good so far, 1 week after I started it I am getting 1 bubble every 2 seconds or so. I switched to a 64oz Gatorade bottle because its a little stiffer than 2 liter. 

Hopefully I will have new pics soon, it looks totally different now.


----------



## amanda huggenkiss (Mar 3, 2004)

Cool. Keep us posted on the Jell-O experiment. It sounds interesting. I might have to give it a try myself...


----------



## secretagent (Mar 13, 2004)

Me 2 with the jello experiment! But do you think you can use unflavored Jello??? (I have alot!)


----------



## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

The unflavored stuff should be cheaper and you don't have to worry about the sugar that can be in the flavored kind.


----------



## tommyboy22481 (Mar 24, 2004)

I was actually considering using regular gelatin, if the theory behind it is true then it should work. I will have to try it when this bottle runs out which from the looks of it will be quite a while. I am still getting 1 bubble every 2-3 seconds, more than enough for my 20 gallon. If you do try this with jello I would pick a lighter shade of jello like lime or lemon, I got black cherry and its so dark its hard to tell whats going on. 

I think I have found the perfect solution for my background, Oracal. Its a self adhesive film used for signs and stickers. I got a bunch free and it seems like the perfect background material. You can read more about it in my other post here.


----------



## mjprather (Apr 24, 2004)

I believe you should use only water based paint when you are painting the background of your tank.


----------



## tommyboy22481 (Mar 24, 2004)

I'm sure there is better paint for glass than what I was using, it was just some stuff I had leftover.


----------



## tommyboy22481 (Mar 24, 2004)

Heres some pics from my brand new shiny Panasonic DMC-LC50. Just picked it up today. The plants on the right are in need of a trim.


_Full tank shot with lights_


_Close up of whole tank_


----------



## tommyboy22481 (Mar 24, 2004)

Thanks to salito718 I now have a nice patch of glosstigma. I didn't that good of a job planting it though, hopefully it will grow in better. 


_This is right after I unwrapped it._


_This is after I got it in the tank_


----------



## tommyboy22481 (Mar 24, 2004)

I finally figured out how to set the white balance correctly, now the white gravel looks white instead of yellow. My amazon swords are finally getting big, they have been smaller for quite a while. The hairgrass seems to be doing fine, I'm pretty sure its taller than before. I'm not sure how the glosstigma is doing , it will be a couple of days before I can tell one way or the other. 

The jello Co2 is still going strong, 1b/3 seconds or so. I have some pics of the bottle I can post if anyone would like to see it. 


_Whole Tank_


_Left Side_


_Right Side_


----------



## loachman (Jan 5, 2004)

how come I can't see any pictures?


----------



## tommyboy22481 (Mar 24, 2004)

Umm, they're pretty big thumbnails, about 30K each, maybe just let the page load longer??


----------



## loachman (Jan 5, 2004)

sorry ... I got it now.. thanks


----------



## tommyboy22481 (Mar 24, 2004)

I bought some new plants today to take up the space I had in the back left corner. I got some type of vals I think. The comboba and the wisteria are growing in nicely. The Glosstigma is still partly alive, I think it will start growing pretty soon. I also moved the hairgrass more to the front so it gets better light. 


_New plants are in the back on the left_​ 
My jello CO2 generator is still going strong, about 15bpm last time I checked. It is nowhere near the bottom of the jello, if it keeps going like this I will be very happy. I would expect this batch to last about 3 months or so. I kind of worried about the alchohol levels getting to high and killing the yeast but if that happens I can just change the water on top of the jello.


----------



## tommyboy22481 (Mar 24, 2004)

Here are the latest pics, stuff is really starting to grow in, I am letting it get kind of wild since I haven't felt like messing with it to much. 


_Heres a good pic of the open top and the lights._


_Its a jungle!_


----------



## Brennor (Mar 8, 2004)

I love it!

looks realy nice and crisp and clean.

Great stuff


----------



## depthC (Oct 9, 2003)

Wow the tank looks nice and is definately growing in nicely. Sounds like a great DIY C02 system if you could post a picture of the bottle that would be nice it sounds great if it can last up to 3 months. I gotta read up on that jello article to learn a bit about it. 

Nice tank.

.depthc


----------



## tommyboy22481 (Mar 24, 2004)

Heres a pic of my Jello setup. I just added some water to it yesterday becuase it had slowed down a bit. You have to be careful with this though because it foams up pretty easy. As long as the bottle doesnt get shaken it should be fine but a bubble counter without liquid in it might be needed to trap any foam from getting to the tank in a big foam up. I'm not worried about it, but if you live in earthquake areas it might be a good idea. (though if an earthquake big enough to cause a foam up happens you probably arn't worried about your fish) :lol: 


_Bottom to top: Jello CO2 Generator, Bubble counter. Above that: timer, Dimmer, and sockets....._


----------



## hubbahubbahehe (Sep 13, 2003)

Tom from the DIY CO2 gelatin pic , it looks like the whole liquid is jello??? does the jello mix with the water and melt?


----------



## Sgtreef (Jun 6, 2004)

Nice setup Tommyboy


----------



## tommyboy22481 (Mar 24, 2004)

hubbahubbahehe said:


> Tom from the DIY CO2 gelatin pic , it looks like the whole liquid is jello??? does the jello mix with the water and melt?


Its hard to tell because I used dark jello, but the jello is at the bottom with the water and yeast sitting on top of it. The yeast eats the jello and gradually works its way down. You should be able to just make out the seperation near the middle of the bottle if you click on the pic for the larger version. This batch is still going strong, I am thinking about making an external reactor because my membrane diffuser cannot diffuse the CO2 fast enough.


----------



## hubbahubbahehe (Sep 13, 2003)

tommyboy22481 said:


> Its hard to tell because I used dark jello, but the jello is at the bottom with the water and yeast sitting on top of it. The yeast eats the jello and gradually works its way down. You should be able to just make out the seperation near the middle of the bottle if you click on the pic for the larger version. This batch is still going strong, I am thinking about making an external reactor because my membrane diffuser cannot diffuse the CO2 fast enough.


Perhaps I need to add more gelatin next time? Cuz under the hot summer weather, my jello has melted,.


----------



## tommyboy22481 (Mar 24, 2004)

I did use the Jigglers recipe for the jello, which would be stiffer than regular jello.


----------



## Geo (May 30, 2003)

Very nice looking 20 Long there, tommyboy! 

I swear I've seen this tank on the BB over at Aquatic Specialties on University Ave. ... did you post pics of it there?

Nice to see another Madison aquatic gardner ... I think I'll have to set up a 20 gallon long one of these days


----------



## tommyboy22481 (Mar 24, 2004)

Yes I did drop a couple pictures off there just a few weeks ago, glad to see someone noticed them. I have found that aquatic specialties has about the best plants in town though they are a bit expensive. 

I would like a bigger tank like a 40 gallon breeder but I can't afford the R/O filter, its bad enough trying to change the water on my 20 gallon with water from the store.


----------



## tommyboy22481 (Mar 24, 2004)

Its been a while since I've posted any pics of the tank so here goes. I just bought 3 bags of flourite and I will be switching to that when it comes in or when I move in a couple of months. I also got up the nerve to remove the carbon I had in my filter and I am going on biological and mechanical filtration alone. I'll test the water for a while and see what happens. I have had a surface exctrator running on it for a while now so no more surface scum, really a big improvement. 

I do have some resin plant fert sticks in the gravle but I also bought some plant fert pellets and I have been trying those to see how they help. So far it seems like its working but I think I might have put one too many in the tank because the water has gotten slightly cloudier. Overall everythings doing pretty good though so I'm just trying to get good growth so I can rescape the tank when I move. My hair grass is starting to throw runners but I think I mostly killed the glosstigma. What I have doesnt seem to be doing that bad its just that it doesnt stay in the substrate and gets sucked up by the filter. Hopefully I can do better with it in the flourite. 

The Jello Co2 is still working, its been at least a month or more since I started this bottle, I will definitly be using this recipe when I have to recharge it. Maybe a little bit less CO2 than yeast and sugar, but my diffuser can't diffuse what I have now and its a lot less work.

​


----------



## Rosko_22 (May 19, 2004)

Beautiful plants.

I was just wondering how big your gravel is? 
In that last pic it looked relatively large, but your plants look like they're doing great. I'm just asking because I just planted my tank and my gravel is on the bigger side, I haven't really even thought about hairgrass or glosso because of it. It looks like your plants are doing just fine in it though.


----------



## tommyboy22481 (Mar 24, 2004)

I am using regular epoxy coated gravel, its appox. 5mm in size. At first my plants didnt do so well and that could have been for a number of reasons, but I think part of it was that the gravel was "clean" with no detritus built up in it. Now that it has gotten some gunk built up in it the plants are doing pretty good. I am going to switch to flourite pretty soon (just ordered 3 bags from petsolutions.com for $45) so we'll see how much of a difference the substrate really makes. 

My glosstigma is doing much better than I thought, I pulled it all up yesterday so I could clean the gravel it was in without losing any plants and I found 2 or 3 plants that had actually started producing runners, and most of the other single plants had some good roots on them so I might get this stuff working yet. I must be getting better at planting it to because it went back in easy enough and looks halfway decent.


----------



## tommyboy22481 (Mar 24, 2004)

I decided that it would be better to change the gravle now before the move so that I can hadle any problems that come up easier. I will have less to worry about during the move if I'm not making any big changes. This is a pic of the tank wth half the gravel replaced. I am going to replace the other half this weekend. 

​
So far I really like the flourite, it is much easier to plant stuff in it than the gravel. Tank was cloudy for about a day but it cleared up pretty nicely. I am having a small hair/brown algae problem right now, not sure if its because I took the carbon out of the filter or because of the flourite. You can see it on the sword plants and hairgrass, everything else is okay so far. I also had some plant fert tabs that got dug up when I was changing the gravel so it could be a couple of things. I stopped dosing flourish for a while to see if that helps.


----------



## ColinAnderson (Jun 25, 2004)

Great photo journal of your tank, Tommy.  Let us know how everything goes, especially with the flourite. I might be persuaded to convert my tank when I move in a couple of months to the dorm.


----------



## tommyboy22481 (Mar 24, 2004)

Some new pics of the tank. Had a outbreak of blue green algae for a while, but it seems to have mostly cleared up by now. I tried running without carbon and it just got out of control.



​
Heres the glossco and hairgrass, the glossco is finally sending out some nice runners, hairgrass isn't doing much but its not dying either. 

​
Jello update: going on 4 months now, and still running strong. I'd say we have a winner here. All I had to do was add a little yeast and water twice.


----------



## hubbahubbahehe (Sep 13, 2003)

nice pics!!! 

so are you saying you got rid of blue green algae by adding carbon?>


----------



## tommyboy22481 (Mar 24, 2004)

I guess you could say that, but I doubt it would work for anyone else. It was by no means a scientific experiment where everything else stayed the same so I can't claim that's really what fixed it. I also have hair algae that isn't really going away even with the carbon. Its not getting worse, but just the blue green is going away.


----------



## tommyboy22481 (Mar 24, 2004)

*Moving sucks....*

Well the tank has been completely torn down since 7/31/04 for my move, and I am waiting for the carpet to get changed in our new Apt. to set it up again. I have all my fish shoehorned into my 10 gallon and I'm doing a 50% water change every other day or so. Not the best situation but should be okay for the short term. The carpet was SUPPOSED to be changed before I had to move the fish but of course that wasn't possible. 

We'll see what the plants look like when I have to replant them, I have them in clear plastic bags with some water. I figure they would be toast if I kept them in the dark this long so I put them up on the window sill so they get some light. They seem okay so far, and if I have to buy a few new plants no big deal. 

I kept my filter full of water when I moved because I was hoping I could hook it back up when I got the the new place right away but now its been sitting for a while so I'm thinking I should dump the water and clean it out before I hook it up again. Now that I think about it I probably should have it hooked up to the 10 gallon, it couldn't hurt.


----------



## tommyboy22481 (Mar 24, 2004)

I have had the tank set up for a couple weeks now, I have most of the fish moved over to it, but I still have to move a couple yet. I initially filled the tank using just tap water so the hardness is way higher than what the plants were used to and they are not doing so well. I did a 25% water change using just RO water today so hopefully they will start doing better. 

If seems pretty obvious now, but don't leave your cannister sealed with water in it for a couple weeks without using it, I had a huge bacteria outbreak and had to replace all the fiilter media including the ceramic rings. If I had been thinking I would have hooked it up to the 10 gallon with all the fish in it. Might have been overkill but would have been better than this. 

I finally had to make a new batch of Jello CO2, I started this batch on 04-28-2004, so it has lasted exactly four months. I am switching to generic orange Jello this time so I can see it a little bit better and because it was a lot cheaper.

I will get some new pics up soon, I have been really busy latley with moving and everything. The tank doesn't look that great anyways. :icon_roll


----------



## ninoboy (Jan 26, 2004)

Hey Tommy,
I want to try that Jello method. The article doesn't state clearly. But after I make the Jello and place it in the fridge, then what should I do? Cut it to small pieces and drop them into the Coke bottle? Is the rate of output similar by using half tsp of yeast on sugar method but last longer? Any tips or adjustment on the recipe?

By the way, I love your tank set up including the halogen lights. Looks really contemporary.

Thanks roud:


----------



## tommyboy22481 (Mar 24, 2004)

I just mixed up the jello and sugar, poured it into the Gatorade bottle and let it set in the fridge. That way the yeast and water are only using the top surface of the jello. If you cut it into pieces it would theoretically give a higher output but for a shorter time because there would be more Jello surface area available. 

Output was something around 15-20 Bpm. It slowed down a couple of times but I just dumped a bit of the water out and added some more water and yeast. I think that even though the yeast still had food the alcohol concentration got to high and killed the yeast. So dumping some water out dilutes the alcohol level and gets it going again. Whenever I added some fresh water to the bottle it would foam up just like when opening a shaken soda bottle so do this in a sink. I only had to add water and yeast twice in the four months the bottle ran.

I would use a light colored jello like lime or lemon so its easier to see where the jello stops and the water starts. I used black cherry and it was really hard to tell.


----------



## ninoboy (Jan 26, 2004)

Thanks. I'll try it tomorrow once I get some Jello. Does it matter what kind of Jello (sugarless or w/ sugar) I use ?


----------



## tommyboy22481 (Mar 24, 2004)

I would go for the stuff with sugar, you are adding 2 cups of sugar anyways.


----------



## Rolo (Dec 10, 2003)

I am curious - what is the KH and GH of the water you use for your DIY jello? For some reason I just can't get 2 weeks of use and I'm suspecting it has to do with my very hard water.


----------



## tommyboy22481 (Mar 24, 2004)

I have been using water straight from the tap, the KH and GH are right around 20. One thing that isn't entirley clear is that you are making the Jello using the Jigglers recipe, or twice the density of normal jello. I used 4 of the 3oz packages of jello with 4 cups of water and 2 cups of sugar. In the recipe he says to use 2 packages but doesn't mention that they are the 6oz size.


----------



## Rolo (Dec 10, 2003)

Picked up two 6 oz. boxes of orange jell-o and will make the recipe tonight. So how does this really work - you have 1 cup of yeast-water sitting on top of solid jello, then over time I suppose the jello eventually becomes all water, like that? What brand of yeast do you use?

And so this thread doesn't become centered on Jello CO2, is the tank in shape for any photo updates?


----------



## tommyboy22481 (Mar 24, 2004)

I started an official Jello Co2 thread, you can find it here.

Heres a pic of the new tank layout, I have switched the gravel to Flourite and have a new layout. My sword is frikkin huge, I am going to have to trade it in pretty soon. The hair grass and glossco are not doing terribly great, I have to start using more RO water to get the hardness down to where they are used to it. Hopefully they will get better after a while. 

​


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 5, 2004)

how did you get the halogens to get white



tommyboy22481 said:


> I finally figured out how to set the white balance
> correctly, now the white gravel looks white instead of yellow. My amazon swords are finally getting big, they have been smaller for quite a while. The hairgrass seems to be doing fine, I'm pretty sure its taller than before. I'm not sure how the glosstigma is doing , it will be a couple of days before I can tell one way or the other.
> 
> The jello Co2 is still going strong, 1b/3 seconds or so. I have some pics of the bottle I can post if anyone would like to see it.
> ...


----------



## tommyboy22481 (Mar 24, 2004)

I didn't get the Halogens to turn white, but I did adjust the white balance on the camera so it looks like they are white. You'll have to consult your cameras users manual for details how to do this since its a little different for each camera. Regardless of camera though, you aim the camera at a known white object and it adjusts the white point to compensate for lighting or other variables. I just use the wall since its pretty close to white but they make cards specifically for this purpouse. 

Also they do make full spectrum halogens, but only for 12v. My system runs on 120v so I am out of luck but it probably wouldn't be that hard to convert it to 12v.


----------



## unirdna (Jan 22, 2004)

*how did I miss this one???*

A fellow madisonite posting an album and I completely missed it for months! Good lookin stuff, Tom. So how's the tank been doing since your move? Fully recovered yet?

You and I have probably brushed shoulders in Aquatic Specialties . I sell them clippings and fish all the time. I was unaware that they wanted photos of local tanks.

Do you have any trouble with Madison water? I got frustrated, so I bought an RO unit. Toooooo hard.


----------



## tommyboy22481 (Mar 24, 2004)

Thanks! I am still having a hair algae/blue-green algae problem that I am not sure how to fix. Its not terrible but it just makes everything look bad. I put a bunch of Anachris in to see if that would help and it might have a little but I'm not sure. I switched to Flourite after the move so that might have had something to do with it also. I havn't been dosing ferts since the tank was setup again either. 

Yeah the water is definitly too hard, I am using RO water for water changes. I bought a couple 5 Gal bottles and have been filling those up every two weeks of about $2 at Aquarium Superstore. I woudl love a RO unit but it would take a couple years to get a ROI.  If I ever got a bigger tank it would pretty much be a neccessity though.


----------



## tommyboy22481 (Mar 24, 2004)

*Blooming*

There was this wierd thin blade coming from my plants in the back and I couldn't figure out what it was till today when I realized its a flower! Its pretty tiny but its still cool.


----------



## tommyboy22481 (Mar 24, 2004)

Well the tank has moved again, this time just down the road a little bit. I have it set up and it seems to be settling in pretty good. I have been having a problem with black beard algae that I think is because of the trace restore I was using. I was using just straight R/O water and the trace restore but I think I am going to switch to 50/50 R/O and tap water. 

Also I am looking to switch my lighting, probably a couple of 65w compact flourecents. I know I normally wouldn't need that much light but I am going to have the strip hung above the tank a ways so I can still leave it open and that's going to loose a lot of light. The halogens are working fine but they are just costing me too much electricity.


----------



## tommyboy22481 (Mar 24, 2004)

Been a while since I've updated this so here goes. Lighting in the tank is now dual 65w CF bulbs, one 10,000k and one 6,500k. It's a coralife fixture suspended about a foot and a half above the tank so I can keep it as an open top tank. CO2 is DIY yeast and sugar in two 2L bottles going into a hagen bubble ladder. 

For a long while I was only topping off the tank and yeast and didn't do much landscaping which lead to this (click pictures for larger view):


I ripped out all of that and bought a few different types of plants so here it is the next day. The red dots are from the lights on our Christmas tree.


I've always wanted to have some Neon Tetra's so I gave the Angel fish to a friend and got a few of them. Here's how the tank looks today after growing out a bit. 


I've got an RO/DI filter coming next week so hopefully I'll be able to lower the hardness and PH a bit.


----------



## AquaVu (Jan 11, 2008)

A BIG driftwood or rock would give the tank a focal point. Move the thermometer to the side of the tank. Can't wait to see the tank again with a solid panted back. Good job


----------



## tommyboy22481 (Mar 24, 2004)

Not sure what you think is a thermometer but there isn't one in the tank, just a heater with a buried temperature probe unless that's what you meant. Also the back is solid black already. 

A big log with some emergent branches would be cool, I'll have to think about it.


----------

