# several algae/plant problems



## Hop (Mar 27, 2004)

It sounds like the black growth that you have describbed is BBA or black brush algae. It's nasty stuff. I had a major break out a few months ago and actually lost a ton of plants due to the H2o2, last resort method at tryig to rid the stuff.

There are quite a few people on this site than can give you better advise than I can but I'll try to give some tips.

When I had my infestation I posted an SOS on another site which was answered by Tom Barr. Mr. Barr never told me what caused it, but did mention that the simple task of turning up the Co2 levels and keeping them consistent around 25 to 30ppm was very important. Mr. Barr stated that once this is acheived he had experimented and purposly tried to introduce BBA into an extablished tank with the proper Co2 and nutrient levels and could not get it to spread.
Now at the time I could not afford the full Co2 set up and tried several cures including a black out and as I mentioned the H2O2 treatment. I think all I did was slow the growth and stress the fish. Now since I revamped my set up and keep my Co2 levels very consistent, I have not had a relapse with the evil menace. I have even gone so far as to put some a. barteri that had infected leaves in the tank and there has been no spread.
Now in your situation with a lower light/non-co2 injected tank I can not give you advise other than if you can, add the Co2 and keep the levels consistent.

As far as your watersprite stems dying out, I have had the same problem, but just treated it as the nature of the beast. With my tank, I would grow a full stem every week, so the natural die off was fine as it kept the size of the plant managable.

Good luck, I hope others post additional info to help you!


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## nightowl (Apr 23, 2004)

Thank you Hop for your reply. I thought BBA was denser...but then again I don't really know so you sure could be right. I sometimes think it is black, sometimes gray, maybe even has a dark green tint. I'ts so fine its hard to tell. Its just little bits here and there but I know its there and I've seen other peoples photos that worry me about the potential. I guess I'm just really tuned in to its presence. One of the other algaes that I wondered if it was is staghorn algae. 

Also, I've read that maybe an iron excess can encourage the growth of these algaes?? Is this right. Do I maybe have too much iron and not enought nitrate?? Do I need to buy an iron test kit?? Do I need more light or less or do I need to change the fertilizers that I add? Maybe I should fertilize/dose more frequently?? I had more of a tolerance for the green algaes that were around in the past. Now they are gone, which is good I guess, but I preferred them to this black string. I am still hoping for more input or opinions when and if people can find the time to post. thanks


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## BSS (Sep 24, 2004)

I've got a similar algae I haven't yet started researching. I was thinking it was some form of a staghorn algae (at least based on the FloridaDriftwood descriptions). It seem to appear where there is water flow and after every other day dosing of micros, which is something I just started playing with.

As to the iron test kit, don't bother. I've never really heard anyone say anything good about the hobbyist iron kits for the iron levels typical in planted tank environments.

Others?
Brian.


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## BSS (Sep 24, 2004)

After my first hour or so of research, the concensus seems to be that staghorn algae is a sign of an imbalance in the tank. Just because I started dumping in 1 ml of trace mix every other day, I can't imagine what would cause the tank to become imbalanced :icon_redf . Time to get more diligent with my test kits. Cool...I love a new puzzle!


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## nightowl (Apr 23, 2004)

What all are you going to test for and try to balance. I thought just phosphate and nitrate, but is there more that I am missing.


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## BSS (Sep 24, 2004)

The NO3 and PO4 will be the primary things I'll be testing. I'll likely do pH and kh also just because that's my regimen. From a trace standpoint, I've read you should start with small doses (which, I don't think I did!) and increase until algae starts to appear and then drop back one level.

That's what I was planning.


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## Aphyosemion (Oct 15, 2004)

I have also heard that high iron levels can aggrevate a BBA problem, but it wouldn't be the only cause. I have every kind of algae imaginable in my tanks (thanks to plants I buy that come in with small amounts), with the exception of Blue-green alge, which I wiped out. I know all the algae is there because I have had problems with it in the past, but it is currently only a problem in 1 of my tanks, because it is newly set up and hasn't become established yet. 
I would just like to point out a couple of obvious issues that are most likely going to make your problem get much bigger before it goes away.
First of all, you cycle your tanks much too infrequently to keep away BBA. I cycled my tank once every week to 2 weeks and it developed the same problem that you have (Note, however that tank had a very high bio load). Now that I have upped my cycling to once every 4 days or so, the BBA is receding noticably. I also decreased my fish load as an additional step. I don't expect to have to cycle every 4 days forever though. Once the plants in that tank get more established, BBA should be less of a problem or go away completely.
Second, without C02, your plants most likely aren't using very much of the fertilizers you are adding, making them available to the algae. Adding C02 would be a big step in the right direction. You could use the DIY yeast method if you are short on cash.
Third, monitor your phosphate levels, especially if you use tap water. I use 100% RO water just in general, but when I actually tested my tap water, I was shocked to see how high the phosphate levels were. By the third week, I would expect your phosphate levels to be getting pretty high.
Fourth, thank god you don't have blue-green algae or beard algae, both of which grow at a phenominal rate and need to be removed every third day or so until they are brought under control.
Anyway, just a couple of things that might help. I am no expert, but I have had to fight algae in every one of my tanks when they are first set up. Then it goes away later on with good maintenance and established plants.
-Aphyosemion


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## nightowl (Apr 23, 2004)

I guess my thinking was that with my nitrates being 5 and my phosphates 0.5 after three weeks of no water change (I tested before I did the waterchange), that if I upped the frequency of my waterchanges, I would then have to add these back into the tank in fertilizer form. My fish load is pretty low (1 pearl gourami, 5 harlaquin rasboras, 5 corys, and one otto in a 55 gal). I didn't have this hair style algae when my nitrates were up around 10. Maybe it's coincidence. I think I may try upping the waterchanges and see what happens. Should I then add nitrate back in somehow as a fertilizer or don't I need to worry if it goes too low? I'm not sure what else to try. I don't think I'm ready for co2. I think I would need to increase my lighting if I started adding co2 wouldn't I? My plants seem to be growing fairly well. I have all easy to grow plants which helps. I'm getting the feeling my problem is iron related, although curiously it only seems to be growing where the output flow from my filter hits my plant leaves. The little black patches on my anubius seems to be in suspended animation. It hasn't increased at all in weeks so I guess I'm not going to worry about it. I'm just focused on the hair strandy stuff. Thanks for your input.


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## Aphyosemion (Oct 15, 2004)

Yeah, that is a pretty light fish load for a 55 gallon tank. If you cycle every 3 weeks and your nitrates are at 5PPM and your phosphates are at .5, that seems like a pretty healthy tank to me. The phosphate levels in a few of my tanks run at around .5, too, but I know the goal is to get them as close to 0 as possible. They also recommend that your nitrates be at around 15 PPM or so, but I am guessing that is more for high light, high C02 tanks. As long as your nitrates don't zero out, you are probably fine. For your lower light tank, 5PPM almost seems optimal to me.
As for the C02, maybe someone else might be able to help you out a little more than I can. In my opinion you should be able to add DIY C02 without increasing your lighting. The amount of C02 that diffuses into your water using that method is fairly low and shouldn't affect your PH that much unless you hook up like 10 2-liter yeast bottles or have incredibly soft water. It could positively affect your plant growth and nutrient uptake though. 
Your problem could be excessive ferts floating around, rather than lack of something. In my case at least, more cycling has made a difference, even though I didn't cut back my ferts at all. That might be a good place to start.
-Aphyosemion


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## nightowl (Apr 23, 2004)

thanks for the input. I'll try to increase the waterchanges. I just worry I will dilute out the nutrients like nitrate an phosphate down to zero, but I don't know what else to try (except co2 which I really didn't want to have to do). I've pretty much decided my algae looks to be staghorn algae. I'ts frustrating because most of the info that comes up regarding staghorn algae has to do with it in tanks that are new or in tanks with co2 or high lighting. I don't have either, and my tank isn't newly set up. This staghorn algae is pretty much the only algae that is growing in my tank right now. The black spots on the anubius aren't growing at all, and the little green goo on the ambulia became an otto snack. I wish I knew where my imbalance was. I isn't apparant to me that I have one - yet the staghorn algae is there.


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## ksand (Oct 19, 2004)

nightowl, does this look like the algae you think is staghorn?
















I also have Ambulia in another tank that has algae much like the one in your picture. Is the ambulia algae blue-green in color? Did you say your pH was 7.8? Maybe the algae would be easier to control is you got the pH down somehow?


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## nightowl (Apr 23, 2004)

wow, those are nice photos. Thanks for posting them. My ph is 7.8. Do you think it is ph related? My algae is similar except that it is a very dark green, almost black. Also, mine seems finer in texture. It does have the branching. It starts from one point on the leaf then branches and ends up as kind of a V shape. I did an all day tank cleaning yesterday trying to get rid of it all. I started by plucking each individual strand, then ended up just plucking entire leafs that had more than one or two strands on them. I must have plucked about 40% of my crypt and hygro leafs. What is strange is, there was a largish clump of the stuff at the top of my heater. During my slow tinkering waterchange that clump was left dry out of water for a couple hours became a bright coppery red color after it was resubmerged. Very interesting.

I've been searching thru old posts for hours last night and today. My eyes are blurry. There isn't a whole lot on low light non co2 tanks here, but I gather that I would still need to dose fertilizers, just not as much or as often and that plant tabs aren't enough. I don't know if my tank would be considered lightly or moderately planted. Also I don't think flourish has nitrate in it. I think my nitrates are drifting down to zero, and I think I would have to add some back in. My problem is I don't know how much or how often. Should I aim for 5ppm of nitrate, (that's about the lowest that the test kits measure). And what about other nutrients that we can't measure. I thought that excess iron may have caused my staghorn, but I noticed the waterconditioner I use says it binds heavy metals. So would it have bound up all my iron. Maybe it doesn't have anything to do with iron after all. I am also thinking maybe I should try seachem excel. Maybe that would add iron and carbon that my plants could use in order to use other nutrients. Would this be a substitute for co2 in low light non co2 injected tanks? I started dosing the flouish in the first place because my hygro was getting pale, some of the new leafs were glossy clear, and the older leafs were developing some holes. Also, java fern is supposed to be an easy low light plant, but in my tank it is doing the worst of all of them. 

That algae on my ambulia was a nice bright green, fluffy soft in texture. I brushed what was left of it off. Hope it stays away.


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## ksand (Oct 19, 2004)

Thanks. I can't grow plants yet, but I can take great pictures of algae! I get pretty frustrated sometimes, but I've had a few successes in the war on algae, so that keeps me going. Keep up the struggle!


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## Aphyosemion (Oct 15, 2004)

Honestly, I think adding more ferts to your tank without making other changes will aggravate your problem, rather than solve it. While algae problems can be caused by lack of certain nutrients that cause other nutrients (notably phosphate) to build up, it seems that more often than not it is just a lack of cycling and parameter monitoring that causes the problem. In my case more cycling has made a definate impact (algae now down to about 25% of when I started and still shrinking), but your tank parameters are pretty different from mine.
-Aphyosemion


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## nightowl (Apr 23, 2004)

well I've been doing waterchanges. The staghorn or whatever it is is still growing and spreading (slowely) but now the new growth on my watersprite is WHITE. I think it needs nutrients because I've done so many waterchanges but I can't add anything because I'm trying to starve the staghorn algae. Why won't this algae stop. It's the only algae in the tank and it just keeps growing. I'm getting frustrated. I'm actually considering drastic measures like taking the fish out and dosing it with copper sulfate, or more likely totally taking it apart bleach dipping everything including the filters and buying new gravel and starting over from scratch (after 7 years of being set up). Ugggg.


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## nightowl (Apr 23, 2004)

I'm thinking of starting the tank over and using flourite. I have another tank I can move the fish to during the switch. My thinking is that my root feeders like crypts can get their nutrients from the flourite and then I can more effectively starve the algae with a clean watercolumn without impacting the plant growth as much. That and maybe the staghorn just won't come back after the re-set up. Or maybe too much iron is what is really causing the staghorn algae, and then it would get worse. hmmm...


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