# Any tips for photo printing?



## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

What program are you printing from? What printer? Are you using the correct printer profile? Paper profile? Is the printer managing the color or the program? What printer are you using?

At home I use one of the Kodak all in one's. Colors are usually nice. At work I print to Xerox and Ricoh high end digital "presses". (I still have trouble calling anything that uses toner a press. A press need ink, water and plates.)


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## Patriot (Dec 22, 2010)

I used lightroom 4 at first but then afterwards I started using whatever has print. I'm using the HP Photosmart 5510 printer. I select highest dpi available to see if i could get smoother images. As for the paper it the HP premium plus which is suppose to be their best paper. And I don't know if the program or the printer is managing the colors or not.


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## GitMoe (Aug 30, 2010)

I was going to suggest changing your files from RGB to CMYK to get better print colors but I googled it and apparently Lightroom 4 doesn't allow you to make that change. I use Photoshop to do that conversion for print materials.


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## Patriot (Dec 22, 2010)

Looks like i need to find a program that uses CMYK then huh?


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## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

No. You don't need to convert it to cmyk. The printer itself does it and is the preferred way. Make sure you are using the correct printer and paper profiles. 

The only time you need to convert to CMYK is if you are looking to create separations going to press.


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## TickleMyElmo (Aug 13, 2009)

Home Printing and Printers are a nightmare from a calibration standpoint, and if you're just using a regular printer, the problem becomes ten times worse. I will gladly just send it out to a professional print lab every time, just to save myself the headache! The prices aren't too bad either...

I know that doesn't really apply here since you're not looking for the best quality possible, but I had to share my disdain for home printing lol...


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## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

TickleMyElmo said:


> Home Printing and Printers are a nightmare from a calibration standpoint, and if you're just using a regular printer, the problem becomes ten times worse. I will gladly just send it out to a professional print lab every time, just to save myself the headache! The prices aren't too bad either...
> 
> I know that doesn't really apply here since you're not looking for the best quality possible, but I had to share my disdain for home printing lol...


Not really. I use both types and get what I want out of each. It's a matter of wanting to take the time to do it correctly and set up your equipment right.


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## GitMoe (Aug 30, 2010)

GraphicGr8s said:


> No. You don't need to convert it to cmyk. The printer itself does it and is the preferred way. Make sure you are using the correct printer and paper profiles.
> 
> The only time you need to convert to CMYK is if you are looking to create separations going to press.


Not entirely true in my experience. I just had a JPG the other day give me hell at home with correct colors until I changed it to CMYK. I've had this happen a few times with the printers at school too. And don't even get me started with trying to print from Preview in OSX. That program does whatever it wants with files. Guess it could've been something else...


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## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

GitMoe said:


> Not entirely true in my experience. I just had a JPG the other day give me hell at home with correct colors until I changed it to CMYK. I've had this happen a few times with the printers at school too. And don't even get me started with trying to print from Preview in OSX. That program does whatever it wants with files. Guess it could've been something else...


That's because you're on a Mac! OK just kidding. No need to start any stupid brand wars.

Most of the problems will start by not choosing the correct profiles or allowing the printer to control color. 
I've rarely had to convert to cmyk to go to my digital machines whether at work or at home. Do I like printing at home? No chance. My Kodak cost me $99.00. The stuff I have at work is $80,000 for the newest one. And the color is great. But I still get good color off my Kodak. But I have it set up correctly.

The one time I hate doing what I do is when we get new equipment or updates. Then I have to figure out what the heck I did years ago and all the little tweaks that are needed.

I get to deal with printing my own stuff. And with printing stuff from my clients. Most of whom have no clue as to what they did to the files and they expect me to magically make them studio shots.


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## GitMoe (Aug 30, 2010)

GraphicGr8s said:


> That's because you're on a Mac! OK just kidding. No need to start any stupid brand wars.
> 
> Most of the problems will start by not choosing the correct profiles or allowing the printer to control color.
> I've rarely had to convert to cmyk to go to my digital machines whether at work or at home. Do I like printing at home? No chance. My Kodak cost me $99.00. The stuff I have at work is $80,000 for the newest one. And the color is great. But I still get good color off my Kodak. But I have it set up correctly.
> ...


Sounds fun. I'm trying to get into the printing business. Silly me... who uses print? In school now for graphic design. Dream job would be at a place that still uses letterpress. I'm a fan of the old school.


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## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

GitMoe said:


> Sounds fun. I'm trying to get into the printing business. Silly me... who uses print? In school now for graphic design. Dream job would be at a place that still uses letterpress. I'm a fan of the old school.


Been there. Done that. Been doing this since I was a teen. First job was setting linotype and ludlow.

My advice to you? Get the hell out of graphic design. So many colleges graduated so many students it flooded the market. Salaries for new guys is pretty much in the toilet since there are so many "graphic designers"
My biggest problem if I lost my job? Finding a company willing to pay for what I know.

I was looking for an article I wrote on printing on a pentax forum but haven't been able to find it. It's been a long time since I was a member there maybe they deleted it.

Here's one of the threads with a discussion on printers though (And yes the GraphicGr8s there is also me)

http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/digital-processing-software-printing/105758-printing-preview.html

Here's some more: 
http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/...out-printing-ppi-different-colour-spaces.html

http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/...elp-my-prints-darker-than-my-monitor-why.html


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## Patriot (Dec 22, 2010)

Also I have another question, are there other size paper to use to keep the printer from cropping my photos when trying to print borderless? I have no problem with cutting off the white borders. the only sizes that I see for the HP printers are letter, 4 x 6, and 5 x 7


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## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

Patriot100% said:


> Also I have another question, are there other size paper to use to keep the printer from cropping my photos when trying to print borderless? I have no problem with cutting off the white borders. the only sizes that I see for the HP printers are letter, 4 x 6, and 5 x 7


You can make any size picture you want. Just print it on 8.5 x 11 and cut it out. When you print borderless it is actually enlarging the photo a bit. It's going to crop no matter what you do. In printing, when we want it to "bleed" (the correct term where an image runs off the paper) we print on a larger sheet. We crop so the image is 1/8" larger on all four sides. That extra is then cut off in bindery. The image, when cut is totally borderless. 
In your case you would just crop to your size but leave a little extra that you know won't be in the final output.


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## Patriot (Dec 22, 2010)

One last question, I'm sorry if I'm asking too many but I'm just trying to learn and understand. What about the ICC profiles, do they make that much of a difference if used correctly. I been trying to find some to try out for my printer or paper.


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## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

Patriot100% said:


> One last question, I'm sorry if I'm asking too many but I'm just trying to learn and understand. What about the ICC profiles, do they make that much of a difference if used correctly. I been trying to find some to try out for my printer or paper.


Sure they make a difference.


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

Patriot100% said:


> One last question, I'm sorry if I'm asking too many but I'm just trying to learn and understand. What about the ICC profiles, do they make that much of a difference if used correctly. I been trying to find some to try out for my printer or paper.


Gracol G7 is a pretty standard ICC profile these days. All the profiling won't matter if your printer is not calibrated to the paper that you will be using.


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## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

shrimpnmoss said:


> Gracol G7 is a pretty standard ICC profile these days. All the profiling won't matter if your printer is not calibrated to the paper that you will be using.


That is geared more to offset printing than desk top printers. How many people here know what a "matchprint" is? How many know what color keys are? Well besides me.




> *GRACoL 7*
> 
> Well, first, *GRACoL 7 includes a set of press measurement data to be used to create profiles for sheetfed printing,* which will be a considerable improvement over what's available today. Probably the most widely used sheedfed profiles are available in Photoshop and other Adobe software, and are actually based on the Matchprint proofing system rather than an actual press run. Good profiles based on actual press behavior are long overdue. CHROMiX will be creating a full set of profiles based on the beta data soon so stay tuned...
> As the data are finalized, we will recreate the profiles from the final release data and update the profiles on our website. The profiles contain our new serial number and versioning tags, and you will be able to tell when yours need to be updated using upcoming software from CHROMiX... stay tuned on that one.
> This data is also useful as a reference for evaluating the performance of proofing systems. For instance, it can be combined with profiles - or actual measurements - from your proofing system to illustrate how close your proofing system is to the standard and where its problems or deficiencies may lie. ColorThink Pro can be used for this purpose, and its ColorSmarts Guide includes a technique for just such a comparison.


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## Eden Marel (Jan 28, 2010)

WEll I just printed some pics for my class, but they turned out really weak and weird, so I had to get mine printed at Walgreens which turn out nice but a little darker than I'd like.

We used some Epson printer, and used Photoshop and you have to tweak the options to your paper and all that shabang. But again my photos came out pale and lifeliess, with lots of weird lines, and off set on the paper even though it was suppose to be centered.


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

GraphicGr8s said:


> That is geared more to offset printing than desk top printers. How many people here know what a "matchprint" is? How many know what color keys are? Well besides me.


He can use a Gracol profile for anything it's just a predefined starting point. Off set color is the industry standard but most print shops will have the Gracol profile preloaded on the RIP of their equipment, so he can take his prints anywhere and get a pretty accurate representation. Yes, the official chip book is standardized on ink and a certain paper. And ink is only used in off-set printing. However, He'll never hit those colors in real life anyways. Everything else will be a CMYK representation. If he gets the photos professionally printed, it will be printed on digital unless he orders 2500+ quantity. EFI Fiery, and Xerox controllers will all have Gracol profiles preloaded. It's probably the easiest way to get what you want.

If you're setting profiles and really get anal about color, a $99.00 home printer is not going to cut it anyways.

In high-end color matching systems where you are attempting to match a color output from:

1) The Proofer usually Epson
2) The Digital Press
3) The Off-Set Press
4) The Wide Format Printer

The color gamut or color space will be shrunk to the lowest common denominator. Which is the off-set press. Only the color space where all three devices can hit will be used. This way marketing campaigns will look as close as possible regardless of output device. Your posters will match the post cards and store signage and so forth.


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## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

He's printing to an HP printer. HP Photosmart 5510 printer. $79.00 online. GC 7 isn't going to help him. Basic printer profiles and paper profiles will do him much better. With correct PP, correct profiles and a good quality paper you'll get a photo that's pleasing. That's all you can ever hope for. Why? Mainly because most people have their monitors set too bright. Second is the color temp of the room lights. Third is because what home shooter that just dabbles is going to spend the money on calibration equipment. Not very many. 

Even in offset most shops that run 4 color run what is called "pleasing color". It looks nice. The pictures are sharp. But don't try to match a Pantone color. Then I've got a couple of suppliers that do my high end work. I know that the colors are going to be spot on. Up to 8 colors in one pass. CMYK plus 4 spots plus aqueous. I know the first sheet will look as good as the last. But they also spend 1000s of dollars on lighting in the press room. 

Xerox isn't the only game in town anymore. Ricoh has come a long way in the color area. In fact on the latest machine there are more sensors for adjustment in the Ricoh than the X-Box. And although they like to call them "presses" it's still a glorified toner based copier/printer/scanner. Yeah, it's an $80,000 all in one. 
And there is no such thing as a digital offset press. The only thing digital about it is how the plates are imaged. The press itself is still a press. Even the Heidelberg DI. 

Want to get really vivid prints in quantity? Look at hex printing. Also known as Hi Fidelity printing. Small quantity? Look at the HP Epson wide format stuff. 8 colors plus CMYK. 

Want to see some interesting stuff? Look at the web press HP has. Yep a large ink jet web press.
Or look at the HP Indigo.

Anyhow, as I have said Graco 7 does him little to no good. It's a $79.00 printer. Profiling is better especially when he adds in the tips for the links I posted.


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## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

Eden Marel said:


> WEll I just printed some pics for my class, but they turned out really weak and weird, so I had to get mine printed at Walgreens which turn out nice but a little darker than I'd like.
> 
> We used some Epson printer, and used Photoshop and you have to tweak the options to your paper and all that shabang. But again my photos came out pale and lifeliess, with lots of weird lines, and off set on the paper even though it was suppose to be centered.


For the Walgreen's prints did you download there profiles? Were they all consistently darker? If so my question is: Is your monitor set too bright? 
If it's consistently darker than the fix is simple. Figure out what you need to do to the file so it prints correctly. Send a contact sheet with your current settings as baseline. Since it's too dark lower raise the brightness of the image in steps and put them on the sheet and get it printed. Make a note of the settings and create an action for it. Every photo you send to Walgreens run the action on. Well run the action on a copy of the file. If it's just the shadows than use the slider for the shadow area.

And I may be outa here. This is getting way too technical for a planted tank forum. That and I get paid to teach this stuff.


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## Patriot (Dec 22, 2010)

Well I was playing around with the setting and the colors are great in my book considering like you said its a $90.00 printer. I found out how to change the resolution to the highest setting with maximum dpi. Again I'm not expecting super pro quality out of the pictures just something good enough to amaze people while showing my pictures. This printer is just to get me started and one day I'll get a better photo printer. Thank you for all the information given. I'm saving to build a photo and video editing computer so i van calibrate the monitors. 

Sent from my Galaxy Note using Tapatalk


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## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

Patriot, eventually, when you get your settings down, you'll think that $90 printer is darn good. Good enough that you'll wonder if you really should spend more. More than likely you have what you need for photo editing. All except for the hardware for calibration. Something like an Eye one or a spyder, etc. Forget software calibration. Doesn't really work.


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