# Another newbie with a 2.5 gallon



## beefxer (Jan 21, 2011)

I just realized that I don't have to resize attached images. These next ones should look a little better.


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## decoman (Nov 2, 2010)

the little fish is so cute


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## Newman (Jul 3, 2010)

nice badis! how does he do in there? also what does he eat? also nice clean lid! the badis wont jump out now


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## drlower (Dec 14, 2010)

a+ for the tank and the overall clean sleek look with the tank, stand, and light.


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## Clare12345 (Dec 20, 2008)

Nice scarlet badis! When I had one it only ate live foods


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## r3tic (Jan 4, 2011)

I too am new to the planted tank thing so I can't comment much on the plants, although they seem to be doing fine. The whole setup looks very clean, I like it. Where did you get the badis and what are they eating. I have tried them a couple of times and could never get them eating. I have tried for a long time to find females but they are never available here.


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## beefxer (Jan 21, 2011)

Thanks for all of the comments!

I make my own lids out of plexiglass (from home depot) and a cabinet handle or two (also from home depot). Unfortunately they collect condensation and start to sink in in the middle just a bit, giving the corners a Chinese architectural look... I really need to learn how to work with glass!

I found the Badis in a cool little fish shop in Renton, WA. The fish guy there ordered me some Celestial Pearl Danios, but his shipment of 25 was down to 6 live ones by the time I got there. I happened to notice the Badises, which I'd read about here on plantedtank.net, in a nano over to the side of the shop. So far I am more than satisfied, as they are very active, and the male is beautiful. 

I was really stressing about getting the Badises to eat. The fellow at the fish store told me that he used to feed them "Spectrum Small Fish Formula" which I purchased from him. The fish didn't even notice them. After watching 5 of these tiny pellets disappear into the gravel, I went out and got the tried-and-true frozen blood worms. Success! The male and one of the females each devoured one. The worms were so big for these little guys that it reminded me of my old Bluegill when it would eat a 8" nightcrawler whole, and it would be hanging out of its mouth while it was being digested. 

Anyways I'm rambling now. Thanks again for the great comments!


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## aquariumcentral (Oct 29, 2010)

I think you should update the lights on this tank, you"ll get much better growth.


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## beefxer (Jan 21, 2011)

I have been seriously considering the 11" coralife fixture that's up on amazon for $50ish. What would you guys recommend?

The low maintenance low light setup is kinda appealing to me, so I'm on the fence. The badises also seem to be really happy under this light. 

As a side note I want to comment on the Red Sea nano filter. In 24 hours it has cleared up my tank almost completely, and it's absolutely silent. I can't say either of those things about my homemade air-pump driven filter. That was a waste of time. 

Also, I installed the Hydor heater today. It is unobtrusive... basically invisible against my black backdrop. The water started out at 75 degrees F when I took the bulky and overpowered 50w tetra heater out. The temp hasn't changed since! Steady sailing at 75 degrees. I'm impressed. 

Not to write a novel here, but I have a stocking question for anyone who is still reading this. I got some snails with my plants. I've had this type before, and I think they mostly just eat algae and rotting plant matter, but I just read that snails may eat fish eggs. Should I remove them?


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## beefxer (Jan 21, 2011)

btw I'm not planning on using CO2 or fertilizers on this setup. With that in mind, should I upgrade the lights?

Options:

http://www.amazon.com/Coralife-Mini...1?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1295935777&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/Kotobuki-Dayl...QDBI/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1295935842&sr=8-2


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## r3tic (Jan 4, 2011)

You may be able to get away with more lighting given that you current light is very high up, non directional and reflecting off the top of your lid. However, upgrading the lights with no ferts or CO2 is likely to give you algae problems.


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## Fat Guy (Nov 19, 2003)

Neat setup. Don't let it spill onto your computer!! If you are still getting ammonia levels, I would keep doing 50% water changes as your tank is still cycling and the water quality will be hard on your fish. I'm not sure how your current lighting setup will do for growing plants. It doesn't look like enough light is going to make its way down to your tank from the lamp above, as that lighting unit is projecting light up and out. I like the little 2.5 gallons though. That coralife seems a little expensive. It also comes with the actinic bulb which you don't need. You should look into making your own DIY light for this tank. Maybe make a canopy that will cover the space between the top of the tank and the shelf above. You could sneak a DIY unit in there. Best of luck. -el g


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## Capncrunch7 (Aug 11, 2010)

I have the Coralife on a 2.5 and have HC growing happily under it. I did swap out the actinic bulb for a 6500k, though. Also, it is almost the exact dimensions of the top of the tank, so you will likely not be able to fit the filter behind it. I had to put my AC20 filter on the side of the tank before switching to a Zoo Med 501 so that I could fit the tubes in the narrow space behind the light fixture.


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## rengb6 (Nov 11, 2009)

Female badis are very rare in the US can we have pictures of the females? I had 3 males, unfortunately 2 jumped so I only have 1 now. I'll be getting more as soon as it warms up on the east coast.


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## beefxer (Jan 21, 2011)

I did some measuring, and yes that coralife fixture is too big to fit atop my lid as I had hoped, and if I had gotten one I had planned to buy the 6700k replacement bulbs.

I can easily rig up a diy fixture with a 10w 6500k bulb, but I don't know how good it will look, or if I really need that much light. I don't want my tank to overgrow with plants, I just want to maintain a good environment for the fish that is pleasant to look at...

The badis male, after having gotten a taste of frozen bloodworm, has become a bit of a bad roommate. He has been pushing the other two around. At one point he even struck one of the females because she had a bloodworm hanging out of her mouth. Luckily she was able to keep her meal down after he lost interest in bullying her. 

All of these reports of the unavailability of females concerns me a little. I'm guessing that these guys were bred here in the US because they were in such great health, and because there were many more females (or perhaps juveniles?) in the tank at the store. 

This leads me to my final, possibly horrific thought: could the two females I have in fact be juvenile males? This might explain the males' treatment of the other two, and it would present a problem if another adult male were to emerge in such a small space. When I look at pictures of the female Dario Dario on google, I see that they are very white in coloration. These two "females" that I have are almost white, but there is a very slight hint of the red/blue striped coloration of the male. 

I will send along pictures as soon as the light conditions allow!


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## beefxer (Jan 21, 2011)

Here are some pics I snapped of the "females". The difference between these guys and the male is quite striking, and they are almost .75 inches , so I figured they must be adult females. One of the pics in the series almost makes the larger of the two females look like an immature male from the coloration...

What do you guys think?

I just found this link. I don't know what to think anymore. 

http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/anabantids/elusive-female-scarlet-badis-dario-20540/

and another:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/fish/47992-dario-dario.html


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## rengb6 (Nov 11, 2009)

The one in picture 2 is in fact a sub dominant male. They probably aren't juvies unless they are under 3/4 of an inch. Also, I suspect the other pictures show males as well but I'm not 100% sure. Females are very very grey and you wouldnt see red on them(at least that is how it appears in the pictures of females I have seen). Those males wont brighten up until you take the dominant male out of the tank. Also, because they are in a 2.5 gallon there will be a little aggression but as long as u make sure all 3 are getting fed it should be fine. One of my badis got starved out by the other 2 and then eventually jumped-I'm guessing because they scared him. Anyway great tank and 3 beautiful males are just as good as a male and 2 females! Enjoy them!


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## beefxer (Jan 21, 2011)

Darn it. I suspected that one was male when it started to defend that log you see it on in the picture. I'm afraid that this is going to force me to find another home for the subdominant male, and who knows what I should do with the smallest one since it's not obviously a male but it's also getting the brunt of the alpha's aggression. 

I wonder if my lfs would take them back, or exchange them for actual females, if they have them. 

Any reason why females are so rare in the US?


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## beefxer (Jan 21, 2011)

I made some youtube videos! 

This one documents the bullying. The dominant male is going after the smallest of the group because the 3rd fish has gone into hiding. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d0njVdQGrw

The second video is a closeup of the dominant male. He's so cute, but so mean!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IowZyOwrrUc

The third video is of the smallest one, up close. Hopefully one of you guys will be able to tell me if it is in fact a male. I tried to measure it earlier, and it was about .75", which is perhaps too large for this young of a fish not to be a male? It also seems to have some red coloration around the base of the tail... not looking good...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6U4HTO1_Tg


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## rengb6 (Nov 11, 2009)

Yea I suspect they are all males, the last one I'm not completely sure about but I have heard that females are around .5 inches so he/she is rather large not to be male. The females aren't as colorful as the males so they just aren't imported regularly. The few females I have heard about were probably imported because they were mistaken for male juvies. As for separating them you could try to see how they do if you plant the tank densely. Eventually, as they establish their own territories, the aggression should get a bit better. You just have to make sure they don't starve each other out. If one turns extremely white and refuses to come out for a few feedings you should probably take him out. Also, its a good thing you have 3 of the fish. Don't just remove one because then all of the dominant male's aggression will be focused on only one fish instead of being spread out. Good luck! They are such a joy to keep


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## beefxer (Jan 21, 2011)

Thanks so much for helping me out rengb6. I guess they probably are all males...

I put as much driftwood as I could fit in the tank without crushing plants, and that seems to have helped a little bit. The medium sized fish keeps disappearing for hours on end, so I figure he's carving out his own little kingdom under a piece of wood. 

However, If I don't stop seeing nipped fins my options will likely be: 1) to get rid of all of them (not cool, man), or 2) to get rid of two of them. My girlfriend is already talking about a 4 gallon nano in the living room so by "get rid" mean I might be able to establish the other 2 in that...

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I might be able to stock in addition to a single male badis in the 2.5 gallon? My local lfs has some nice CRS that I wouldn't mind keeping if the badis wouldn't destroy them... 2.5 gallons seems too small for Celestial Pearl Danios... Any other ideas?

A few other notes: 

I'm keeping up with the water changes, and ammonia seems to be coming under control. 

This Hydor heater really lets the tank temperature fluctuate with the temp of the room. Not sure how I feel about that, though it has stayed between 74 and 79 degrees.


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## beefxer (Jan 21, 2011)

I'm listing the two sub-dominant males on craigslist in seattle if anyone is interested...


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## PinoyBoy (Mar 14, 2008)

How long has your crypts been in the tank? I'm thinking of putting a crypt in there too but I fear that it might grow too large in less than a year.

 If only I can pick up your fish, but sadly all my tanks are shrimp only :frown:


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## beefxer (Jan 21, 2011)

Ok. At long last, I have the answer. ONE of my three badises was a female. I held off on craigslist because I wasn't quite sure, and in the past 2 days all three have learned to get along. 

It took a trip to my local lfs to determine that they did in fact have both males and females in the tank. I bought what is obviously a fully grown female, and now that I see her next to my other three, it is obvious that I originally 2 males, and a young female. This makes sense to me now, because the pecking order would sometimes get confused, with the smallest fish nipping at the dominant male without immediate retribution.

If all 4 get along in this tank I will keep them there. If not, I will remove the subdominant male. 

Thanks again everyone!

Here's a pic of my new female.


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## Noahma (Oct 18, 2009)

I love those little guys, I have two in a ten gal with a bunch of other nano fish, I have also been able to get mine to eat frozen cyclopes too


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## rengb6 (Nov 11, 2009)

They wont kill shrimp if you put them in your tank but the shrimp might get spooked and jump.


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## beefxer (Jan 21, 2011)

PinoyBoy: The crypts have been in the tank for about 2 weeks. They did great at first, but then I did a series of large water changes that must have depleted the dissolved nutrients (from rotting matter), and a few of the crypts' leaves started to rot away. I am not adding fertilizers to my tank, so I am relying on fish poop and rotting vegetable matter to feed my plants.

Noahma: What are cyclopes?! I was thinking about getting some frozen tubifex worms since they have only had frozen bloodworms since I got them. Any other ideas on what to feed them?

rengb6: I got two CRS today too! They already look comfortable in their surroundings. 

I got some Hydrocotyle Tripartita ( Pennywort ) today too... http://tinyurl.com/4fn4slh


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## Noahma (Oct 18, 2009)

beefxer said:


> PinoyBoy: The crypts have been in the tank for about 2 weeks. They did great at first, but then I did a series of large water changes that must have depleted the dissolved nutrients (from rotting matter), and a few of the crypts' leaves started to rot away. I am not adding fertilizers to my tank, so I am relying on fish poop and rotting vegetable matter to feed my plants...
> 
> Noahma: What are cyclopes?! I was thinking about getting some frozen tubifex worms since they have only had frozen bloodworms since I got them. Any other ideas on what to feed them?
> 
> rengb6: I got two CRS today too! They already look comfortable in their surroundings.


They are umm.... sea monkeys? Not sure exactly what they are, but they are tiny lol little invert. I use an eye dropper in to squirt them in front of the filter output. They like them lol. The key is to make the food look like it is living. The blood worms will sway with the current. And Tubiflex would do the same. So they would probably eat the tubiflex too. They have quite a personality for their very small size. The two I have I ended up naming Peanut butter, and Jelly, one is overall orange with the red stripes, and the other overall blue with the red stripes.


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## beefxer (Jan 21, 2011)

That is fantastic. So you must have two males... do they ever fight?

It sounds like you are describing brine shrimp. They require brackish water I think, if I were to try to keep a supply for my fish. A guy at a local fish store recommended that I grow a colony of some type of worm that lives in oatmeal... I can't remember what he called them. I was intrigued. 

Here are a few pics I snapped of my setup as it is now - Full of logs and plants to try to keep the badises happy. Sorry about the grainy nature of the pics, it's from the lighting in the tank... no way around it!


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## Noahma (Oct 18, 2009)

beefxer said:


> That is fantastic. So you must have two males... do they ever fight?
> 
> It sounds like you are describing brine shrimp. They require brackish water I think, if I were to try to keep a supply for my fish. A guy at a local fish store recommended that I grow a colony of some type of worm that lives in oatmeal... I can't remember what he called them. I was intrigued.
> 
> Here are a few pics I snapped of my setup as it is now - Full of logs and plants to try to keep the badises happy. Sorry about the grainy nature of the pics, it's from the lighting in the tank... no way around it!


they are smaller than brine, I tried brine lol they did not touch them. they come like all frozen foods in a small cube of frozen water. 

The two males have staked territory in the tank, the line essentially moves right down the middle of the tank. The left side is "jungle territory" and the right side is more like grass lands lol. They do clash every once in a while, which is funny. They face each other side by side. the only way to describe it is like placing magnets oppose to each other.


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

Wow this tank is really cool! How is it doing? I just saw a couple of your videos and was intreagued.

I was considering Scarlett Badis for my 5g or 10g but I'm not sure what to do about feeding.


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## Noahma (Oct 18, 2009)

AquaStudent said:


> Wow this tank is really cool! How is it doing? I just saw a couple of your videos and was intreagued.
> 
> I was considering Scarlett Badis for my 5g or 10g but I'm not sure what to do about feeding.


if you have access to frozen bloodworms and frozen cyclops your set. Mine get blood worms every other night, and will take them with a passion lol. They follow the tweezers around until I get it near them, and then they grab the first bloodworm that "moves" in the waters current. They will attack any of them that seem to move with current or look alive. the cyclops is a bit harder to get them to take, they do not chase their food that quickly. If the flow is low in the tank, they will follow it while looking, and suddenly grab and eat. so for the cyclops you need to have lower flow. They will also eat some of the tank pests IE planaria, but will quickly eat all in the tank. Once you get them set on eating, they are great little fish with a HUGE personality. Mine show interest in flake, but never take the bite.


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## Ben. (Mar 29, 2011)

Nice tank! keep us posted!


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

very cool. They sound live amazing little fish!  I need to check my LFS to see if I have access to frozen foods. I mean the weather here at college is like 10 deg for 8 months out of the year...i would think all of the food is frozen :/

How aggressive are these guys together? Like in a 10 gallon that's fairly densely planted what combination from males to females would be best? 2/8? What about a 5g


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## Geniusdudekiran (Dec 6, 2010)

Wow, that is beautiful. The Badis looks great. Do they get along with shrimp? I want to get some for the tank in my signature. Would that work?


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

I finally got my Scarlet Badis a few days ago. I've got a pair in a 5g with RCS and 4 males in a 10g with some neons, RCS, and a calico BN Pleco. I have noticed the shrimp in the 10 gallon are hiding a bit more but that may have been just because the lights had just come on. I'm starting to see a few more. Some of my RCS females are berried so I'll be interested to see how the Dario dario and the neons do with the shrimplets.


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