# Green Dust algae, a confirmation of a cure



## Knotyoureality (Aug 3, 2012)

So much of this hobby comes down to guesses, nice to see it tested. 

I don't know if my BN pleco will do as well as she gets older, but she's nearing 4" and still scouring the glass beautifully--despite a piggish appetite for anything else she can wrangle. Pre BNP I had to scrape down the glass once a week and watch my light period carefully. Now, the lights stay on for 10+hours a day, the tank gets indirect sunlight all day long as it's right next to patio doors and gets *direct* sunlight for a few hours in the late afternoon. But every evening, as soon as the main lights go out and the blue LEDs go on, she's working the glass. In the last two months I've had to take a razor to the glass exactly once--and even then it was a very light, easy to remove dusting. And since I've been dialing in a slightly higher fertilization schedule, even that's going away. She's frequently busy scouring thru my java fern clump as well, which rather surprised me. 

Not a realistic option for small tanks, but I doubt I'll ever again keep a tank 40g and up without one.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

I talked to another person who has a LFS and had a bad rash, they used plecos in their tanks, not an issue any longer.

Micron filters, eg, like a diatom filter, should also work if you wipe the tank down good and leave it running, they clog quick, but will remove it, a 20 micron canister filter and a powerhead should do the trick also if you cannot use the plecos for some reason.

Just clean it weekly.


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## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

Tom don't get me wrong, but how is this a cure when you did not mention anything about the root cause of GDA? BN and Micron filters are only temporary fix, once removed the GDA will return in those tanks again. i have some BN and they couldn't get rid of the GDA at all, they would clean the glass very well and next day GDA is still there and they simply couldn't cure the root cause. i already know what causes the GDA and i have already written a thread on it but i wont bring that up in here because it might not be the right place to post. 

i hope you don't get offended by my post, am only speaking from my experience.

Happy New Year


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## anastasisariel (Oct 4, 2009)

happi said:


> Tom don't get me wrong, but how is this a cure when you did not mention anything about the root cause of GDA? BN and Micron filters are only temporary fix, once removed the GDA will return in those tanks again. i have some BN and they couldn't get rid of the GDA at all, they would clean the glass very well and next day GDA is still there and they simply couldn't cure the root cause. i already know what causes the GDA and i have already written a thread on it but i wont bring that up in here because it might not be the right place to post.
> 
> i hope you don't get offended by my post, am only speaking from my experience.
> 
> Happy New Year


....



> BNP's seem the best option for most cases where folks have issues or cannot resolve it


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Root cause for GDA is "known"? 
Maybe I missed something, but I do not recall you showed that was the case.
Even then, there may be more than one cause.
This is true for BGA and a few others.


I have added it many many times to my own tanks, never could I get it to grow. I did once I removed the CO2 and added lots of light and removed the plants. That's hardly an example of planted tank though. BNP's took care of it and kept even that tank clean for weeks and weeks without any input from me.

Clients are not willing to fiddle with things.
So adding algae eaters works well.

I do not view algae eaters as "temporary" in the least.

Never have. They are permanent fixtures in high level aquascapes world wide.
Biocontrol for aquarium pest are best if.........they do not bother the non target organisms such as shrimp, plants, other fish, uproot plants much etc.
Unlike the micron filter method(weekly chore/labor...)....BNP's or any algae eater are something that last years without any user input.
I'm not sure how a few years is viewed as "temporary". I've seen 100's of aquascapes that last a year or two tops. 

As with ANY and all management options, no one thing will be everything to all users. So the more tools available for management, the better, but this one is more sure fire than any of the others I've seen and how many methods and tools for killing or controlling algae have you seen other folks come up?

Not many. Sewingalot, but that was a bust. Blackouts for BGA work well, but also require the NO3 to be higher during and thereafter. BBA has always been a CO2 issue. Hair algae, current changes from over grown plants, high current regions and lower CO2. I can kill it with algaefix, but if I do not correct the current/plant overgrowth and the CO2, it'll come back.

But few critters eat those effectively.
SAE's do eat BBA, but get fat and lazy and aggressive with other fish, BNP's, not so much. We have not had a confirmation of a GDA effective algae eater, till now at least.


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## Solcielo lawrencia (Dec 30, 2013)

What about adding archaea and protozoans into the water column so they keep the numbers of free-floating GDA in check?


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Solcielo lawrencia said:


> What about adding archaea and protozoans into the water column so they keep the numbers of free-floating GDA in check?


Fish and other invertebrates will eat them, filter will catch others.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

happi said:


> i already know what causes the GDA and i have already written a thread on it but i wont bring that up in here because it might not be the right place to post.


No offense at all here. If slapped my mother, okay.......but......:hihi:

Happi, I looked at that thread. That's not cause or conformation and I can easily falsify it. Plenty of folks can/have already:icon_idea

I challenge you or other folks to falsify this method I suggest after the BNP's are added in sufficient no#s. There's no user input after the plecos are added.
You try and falsify or disprove your own hypothesis.

My question was: Can BNP added in sufficient numbers control/eradicate GDA to an acceptable level in all cases? 

So I set out and tried it on some really worse case scenarios. Next I checked to see if removing the BNP brought back the GDA. Since they worked in both cases and removing them allowed the GDA to bloom and come back, I can SAFELY say that the algae just did not die out for some other potential reasons. 

An aquarium the had all the plants ripped up, removed and high light, no CO2 and ADA AS, good flow........that's a pretty good worse case scenario as far as any hobbyists tank we might ever encounter.

Regarding falsifying your hypothesis, I have videos, pics, journals going back years, it's not the ferts. I've seen very rich to virtually none. Folks still got it and could not get rid of it. Fish loads varied. 

I have rich ferts in all my tanks, and yet even with repeated exposure, no GDA blooms. I've taken plants from a local GDA tank and placed them in several of my own tanks. No bloom.

So inoculation of the algae, rich ferts or some special fert ratio or mix cannot be the cause. It might work for some other reasons in some folk's tanks, but this is correlation, NOT cause. 

I cannot rule out ferts as a possible cause, but it seems very unlikely.
It also needs to be repeated in virtually all cases, or let's say 80-90%.

I've had and tried many different ferts ranges and known many folks and helped them with algae issues for a couple of decades. I see no correlation between ferts and algae, mostly a lack of ferts correlates more with a no# of algae types. Much more correlation with CO2, light and general care issues, often some small thing that they, or myself have over looked. Too many things we can over look to be so sure of ourselves.

So......I might be wrong here, but I've set up the test using a worse case.
I've checked to be sure it's not just a life cycle phase the GDA was going through. This makes things much less likely to be caught and be wrong about it.

Your hypothesis?




Ebi, Antbug, Hoppy and others have stopped by and seen it that frequent this forum. I'm not lying or keeping some secrets from anyone about what I do. Never have. I'm not coming up with terms like "Ultimate" or "Pro" for the dosing schemes, and I give virtually all the credit to those before me. As I should. 

The tank above has some of the newer and more difficult plants, not only growing together, but well gardened. Perhaps the user and much less the dosing has more to do with it? Could be. But I've freely shared that information. And I continue to do so. 

So even at the highest light, dosing very rich, most picky of plants, most demanding of plant trimming and scaping, the hypothesis fails independent of other possible factors regarding ferts alone. Why do not I have GDA? 

I'm not sure how you can look at this and still argue that your hypothesis is correct. I abandoned the hypothesis that NH4 back up in the planted tank might be a cause for algae. Seemed reasonable too.

More healthy plants= less NH4.

I added progressively more and more fish till I got an algae bloom. I added NH4 from inorganic sources. I showed strong correlation with new tanks and Green water. I was wrong. So off to seek new questions and try and falsify those.

That's how you learn. It is not about belief, it's about falsifying your own ideas. If you cannot and have used several lines of logic, have examples where it is already falsified, you tenetatively accept it, but, you could be wrong.

But to simply try and falsify a hypothesis, that part is easy and you can know pretty much with certainty, that it is incorrect. Showing cause it much harder. 

But, I think I've shown the BNP's are pretty darn good at going after GDA. 
I'd like see if anyone can falsify it using them in high enough numbers, not like 1 baby BNP in a 100 gallon tank or something. 
I've falsified your hypothesis, now it's your turn.:icon_idea

Add 8-10 to your 75 gallon.
Then see.


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## hedge_fund (Jan 1, 2006)

I have 5 BNP in my tank and I've never had green dust algae...not sure if the parameters are good or if it's the plecos. There is a breeder that lives just outside of NYC who sells awesome home bred ones....hit me up via PM if you want his info.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

hedge_fund said:


> I have 5 BNP in my tank and I've never had green dust algae...not sure if the parameters are good or if it's the plecos. There is a breeder that lives just outside of NYC who sells awesome home bred ones....hit me up via PM if you want his info.




They also are relatively easy to breed in planted tanks. LFS's will by them. Very tolerate over a wide range of parameters and can survive where Amano shrimp or other shrimp cannot(angels/discus, Killis, various other shrimp predators).

I have to say that my tanks at home are not good candidates really unless I really go all out and remove plants, crank the light, no CO2 etc(the worse case scenario).......but a long term pesky Client's tank is ideal for testing because I know there's an on going problem with it and no other management options. Plecos are less trouble than any dosing modification. I add them, end of story for years. And unlike dosing ferts, this seems to be batting 100%.

No fert mod does that.

I have gold nuggets in my 120 Gallon above. But they are getting larger now, so they might be moved and I might use the BNP's to keep the glass clean. I clean the glass about once a month or thereabouts, not due to a bad growth, but just good care/routine. The 70 Gallon Buce tank, maybe once every 3 months? So not much.


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## Zorfox (Jun 24, 2012)

Sometimes I feel like a guppy among sharks when it comes to planted tank theory and management. The level of knowledge and experience in this hobby astounds me at times. At times I feel I should not interject my opinion because I am far from the level of many here.

I just wanted to take a moment to say that statements like this shouldn't be necessary.



plantbrain said:


> No offense at all here. If slapped my mother, okay.......but......:hihi:


What I mean is we shouldn't have to worry about offense rather, worry about repeatable results and solution solving. We all have the same goal. It's nice to see someone such as the Tom Barr himself admit he has no idea about a particular problem but instead offer a solution. It's that attitude that promotes discovery and promotion of the hobby. Being the first to discovery, market or anything else to me as a hobbyist seems pointless. I personally have no problem hearing "you're wrong because of X Y Z". In fact I welcome this. It happens to be a valuable tool for learning. So if I ever say something that doesn't make sense, call me out on it! God knows I'll do the same to most, including Tom, if I don't agree or understand. Not being disrespectful. Just debating issues. I just wish everyone had the ability to debate rather than argue. There is a huge difference IMO. Nice to see one of the most respected people in the world possessing this ability. I know, not on topic but I just felt the need to vent lol.

BTW Absolutely, beautiful tank hedge_fund! I'm quite impressed.


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## Chris_Produces (Feb 19, 2014)

I plan on getting some BNP's for my 125g. Do you guys know if BNP's are fine with SAE's?


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## discuspaul (Jul 27, 2010)

For those of you whose tank bio-load is already at or near max limit, or for whatever other reason you don't want to add a group of young BNPs, here's a method that worked like a charm for me:
I tried several approaches to get rid of green dust algae that settled heavily on the glass in one of my discus tanks - i.e. leaving it untouched for over 3 weeks; several days black-out; changing up ferts composition - nothing worked. In desperation, I added a UV sterilizer to the tank, and every day while doing a wc I wiped all the GDA off the glass to get it free-flowing into the water column.
After several days of repeating this, with less and less BGA apparent each day, it finally disappeared completely, never to return.
Worked for me. If it ever returns, I'll do that again.


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## Chris_Produces (Feb 19, 2014)

discuspaul said:


> For those of you whose tank bio-load is already at or near max limit, or for whatever other reason you don't want to add a group of young BNPs, here's a method that worked like a charm for me:
> I tried several approaches to get rid of green dust algae that settled heavily on the glass in one of my discus tanks - i.e. leaving it untouched for over 3 weeks; several days black-out; changing up ferts composition - nothing worked. In desperation, I added a UV sterilizer to the tank, and every day while doing a wc I wiped all the GDA off the glass to get it free-flowing into the water column.
> After several days of repeating this, with less and less BGA apparent each day, it finally disappeared completely, never to return.
> Worked for me. If it ever returns, I'll do that again.


Huh? :icon_eek: I'm confused. I thought we were talking about GDA and not BGA?


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## discuspaul (Jul 27, 2010)

We are talking about Green Dust Algae. You can get it free-floating in the water column, and that's how the UV pulled it in & destroyed it.
I mentioned BGA just once by mistake (instead of GDA) in my final sentence above. My apologies. A UV certainly wouldn't get rid of BGA.


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## Chris_Produces (Feb 19, 2014)

discuspaul said:


> We are talking about Green Dust Algae. You can get it free-floating in the water column, and that's how the UV pulled it in & destroyed it.
> I mentioned BGA just once by mistake (instead of GDA) in my final sentence above. My apologies. A UV certainly wouldn't get rid of BGA.


I got ya. I went ahead and got some BNP's just to see if they might eat the stuff. I may have to try a UV Sterilizer sometime if it becomes a big problem.


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## Xiaozhuang (Feb 15, 2012)

Hello, sorry for reviving old thread. I have tried the BNP solution on high light tanks 100ish PAR whose only issue was GDA. As mentioned by Tom the cure rate seems to be 100%. 

Hypothetically I wonder how far one can push it though? 200 PAR? 400PAR ? at substrate. I'm not doing it for practical purposes, just wondering how far the effect goes. Whether there is some escape velocity for algae or do they (algae) also face diminishing returns. If so maybe BNPs can be used to clear ponds(under sunlight) ?


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## rick dale (Feb 26, 2014)

*Bn pleco*



plantbrain said:


> I talked to another person who has a LFS and had a bad rash, they used plecos in their tanks, not an issue any longer.
> 
> Micron filters, eg, like a diatom filter, should also work if you wipe the tank down good and leave it running, they clog quick, but will remove it, a 20 micron canister filter and a powerhead should do the trick also if you cannot use the plecos for some reason.
> 
> Just clean it weekly.


Just added 9 bn to my 60 gallon. Curious to see if they do the job.


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