# Native MA Tank Plants



## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

*I am going to attempt my first REAL planted tank with CO2 and high intensity lighting. As a kid we made them at camp with local plants and they would last the summer...without any filtration. Since this is my first real attempt I want to stay low budget and not buy plants which led me to wanting to try a native tank. 

I took a 10 gallon tank and derimmed the top, to create a riparium. I have a CO2 system and LED lighting, I plan to use minimal tank cups hanging on the back and use a more natural setup.

As I said I live in MA and so I have done a lot of close pond walks documenting aquatic plants. This is the 10 gallon tank layout and if this works I will expand to a 15 gallon...may only fit a single plant of all the chosen species in this setup. 










With a deep and shallow end, along with a water skim surface to right at top I wanted to plant emerging plants in the back of the tank. Starting all the way to the right in front Sphagnum Moss:










In the middle (to right) behind Sphagnum would be Marsh Purslane:


















In the back of the tank I can use Smartweed and Arrowhead:


























Moving to the middle depth where it begins to taper deeper, up font I would do Waterweed:










Then some Marsh St. John's Wort:


















Emerging from the rear of the tank in the center Mermaid Weed and Bur-reed:


















Moving all the way to the left the deepest part of tank I am liking Fanwort with its tiny pads supporting a white flower:


















They have something similar called Bladderwort its darker and has a yellow flower but its practically the same flower as the Fanwort with a gross looking underwater foliage, something similar is Water Marigold with a better looking flower but again gross underwater foliage may be worth keeping one or two for the flower:










Another great dual feature plant I found was Pondweed, it has both submerged grass-like foliage and lily pads supporting a flower:


















As much as I would like to I do not have room for Lilly pads in a 10 gallon not even watershield but the Fanwort & Pondweed will give some floating pads but I want to mix in random floating Duckweed (disregard the oil in my water, tsk tsk):










If I can find one, and have room I will consider a Little Floating Heart which is a small Lily pad with small flowers:










Will all these work in a clear water tank at same Ph level etc?*


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## Ashraf (Oct 7, 2014)

Jesus, that is a fun swamp to explore. Nice pics man.

If they're all found in the same area should work.


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## jasa73 (Jun 3, 2007)

Awesome! I've always wanted to find native aquatic plants but I'm a city boy and am clueless. I'm in Cambridge, where did you go collecting?


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## jimbo662 (Aug 4, 2013)

This is going to be cool!!!


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

Ashraf said:


> If they're all found in the same area should work.


Good to know! It was a very fun place!


jasa73 said:


> Awesome! I've always wanted to find native aquatic plants but I'm a city boy and am clueless. I'm in Cambridge, where did you go collecting?


Templeton MA tons of places out here, I found a few things I can not even identify in field guides!


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

*What about the dormancy of the winter season? How will these plants be effected inside in a controlled environment?*


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## jasa73 (Jun 3, 2007)

Well mermaid weed will be fine. People have used it for a while in aquariums. Its funny because I just bought some mermaid weed stems that are transitioning to their submersed form. I would love to just go to a lake and pick up mermaid weed that looks like that!


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## ThatGuyWithTheFish (Apr 29, 2012)

You probably know this, but Cabomba caroliana is not a native plant. It's an invasive species, but it's prolific everywhere now.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

jasa73 said:


> Well mermaid weed will be fine. People have used it for a while in aquariums. Its funny because I just bought some mermaid weed stems that are transitioning to their submersed form. I would love to just go to a lake and pick up mermaid weed that looks like that!


It is an awesome lakeside, easy access to many species! 



ThatGuyWithTheFish said:


> You probably know this, but Cabomba caroliana is not a native plant. It's an invasive species, but it's prolific everywhere now.


Yeah I know, but as long as I see it in abundance here I will use it.


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## bigtrout (Sep 6, 2014)

I keep a native tank of plants from the Allegheny River in PA. I keep alot of the same plants as you are proposing, most like hard alkaline water and can use carbonates, mine all grow in a medium light tank with no co2 but i do filter thru crushed coral to keep the carbonate levels high. 
As far as dormancy, I have found the Potamogeton species to be the worst about this, and do not have a problem with the other plants, as long as they are not collected too late in the season, when they are starting to enter dormancy on their own, and here that means no collecting certain plants after Labor day.
I keep Vallisneria americana, Sagittaria cuneata(northern arrowhead and it looks like a slightly bigger version of dwarf sags when grown totally submersed), Ludwigia palustris, Potamogeton perfoliatus, Myriophyllum spicatum and common hornwort.
Your idea looks great, and the only plant that you are suggesting that I personally have trouble with is your waterweed, but I keep livebearers in a 77 degree tank and it tends to not like the warm temperatures.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

Good to know about the hard alkaline water, our tap water is very hard as it is. 

Your waterweed troubles are interesting at high 70s? I do not think the water here touches close to 70 in the summer so that would make sense, however it does seem to thrive in shallow slow running warm pools as I found here (corner of pond runoff) 


















*I visited a new lake today and found a new species of waterweed I have not observed anywhere else yet, its miniature. The first one I posted above is more like a blade grass and can be reddish, this one is thin hair-like grass with much smaller pads on the water surface:*










*I found both species of pondweed side by side for a better comparison: *


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

*Help Identifying?*

*I wanted to include this photo, it is farther up stream from that pondweed pool I posted above, closer to one of the immediate pond runoffs:*










*I found a few plants I can not identify if anyone can help, this is the only one I found and it appears to be stiff and not emerging with a reddish color:*










*This is another one I can not identify and I do not think it is Arrowhead, or a Lilly but grows in shallow water along edges any idea?*


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## bigtrout (Sep 6, 2014)

That looks like either a sagittaria or alisma sp, i keep northern arrowhead and it isndoing great, submersed it got all strap leaves, I just collected a similar plant that i think is alisma, which can also get strap type leaves underwater. 
Yes only native i have trouble with elodea, it grows like mad, then fizzles and dies, but my reading says 75 is tops that it likes temp wise. The Allegheny gets warmer than that as well, but in a tank, it will grow good for 5-6 weeks then die...might be dormancy issue instead, but i just dont have luck with it.


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## bigtrout (Sep 6, 2014)

Also in regards to alkaline hard water, my well is hard, so instead of fighting it, i kept livebearers, the Allegheny where i collect is hard and alkaline as well, so plants are a perfect fit, and also i dont use co2, but have read vals, sags, some pondweeds, myrio and hornwort can all use carbonates, which is the only way to explain my growth rates without co2, these plants all are found in the upper chesapeake bay, meaning they will all tolerate slightly brackish conditions( i add 1 teaspoon of sea salt per 5 gallons for the livebearers seems to give me less health issues and stronger fry)
Coming out of a pond, i would test the water ph, some ponds can be acidic but the presence of waterweed usually means hard alkaline water as well.
What i do is collect a plant or two, try it in a small spot int he tank for a week or two, if it takes i collect more if i want, if not i try again. Trying out wild saurus cernuus and want to find some pennywort and a lobelia which are both native here...time for a canoe trip, the river is down and water chanels in between islands on the river are great collecting spots when the water recedes, as most of the plants had been growing submersed and are now easy to find


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

Thanks for the identification, I will mix it with my arrow head than and I do not plan on submerging either one, just growing in a few inches of water. 

Sounds like your Waterweed aka Elodea problem may be the fact you do not run CO2?

So the things I need to check for are pH and Alkalinity (or lack of) ?

Right now is collecting time here too water levels just dropped but my tank is not ready even to hold plant stock, I need to complete the filtration and lighting systems. I will run plants over the winter in submerged pots if I have time to pull them before fall. 


*I did find another plant I may use; Lurid Sedge, it will mix well with my Bur-reed or Arrowhead*


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## ThatGuyWithTheFish (Apr 29, 2012)

If you can Elatine species and Eleocharis species, those are really nice!


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

Not sure if those are native have not came across them


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## ThatGuyWithTheFish (Apr 29, 2012)

Teebo said:


> Not sure if those are native have not came across them


Yup, they are. I found them in a pond near me. Eleocharis acicularis (I think that's the species) isn't hard to find.


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## bigtrout (Sep 6, 2014)

No dont think co2 was the issue with waterweed...heck my myrio grows inches a day as do the vals...anyways eleocharis is native to MA...go to the usda plant database u can look up by species and by state and get a map of where its present down to county level.
In the wild its about 4 to 6 inches high...forms dense root mats usually found right at the waters edge emersed, right now its getting little tufts at the ends of the spike leaves.
What type of smartweed did u find in the pic? Im wondering if I could find it here?


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

Eleocharis acicularis will make a great ground carpet for my deep end thanks! 

I will give the waterweed a shot I did find two varieties. Thanks for the database reference I have been using random field guides I find online. 

I'm not sure what type the smartweed was, I did see another larger type with more pointy curled inner tails of the leafs that loop around the stem. This is the only one I got a picture of though:










*Since almost all the ponds here are surrounded by blueberries on the shore I think I will try to grow blueberries around the outside of the tank...either bonsai on the sides or a pot on the floor behind with some branches curling up around the back of the tank*


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

*Visited another pond, found nothing new but...is making me reconsider Bladderwort. This is what it looked like the first time I found it, very dark and unattractive looking:*










*So at that first pond I compared it side by side to Fanwort and just for the difference in flower color it was not worth having dark junk floating in my tank:*










*Then at this most recent pond I saw the yellow flowers again and this time more of a star shape around them at the surface of the water which was absent at the first pond. So I pulled a sample and to my surprise it had a lush green submerged foliage! This is the same plant right? They have the same flowers, if I can get this to stay nice and green I may grow both types of 'wort' so I can have both white and yellow surface flowers. *


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## bigtrout (Sep 6, 2014)

You would be suprised at the variability of plants, same species same river...sometimes I canoe the river fishing, collecting, exploring, whatever and one place has beuatiful vallisneria, next spot they look terrible, same with waterweed, myrio and hornwort. You can find a beautifully colored plant and next to it is a brown ugly plant with a few greener shoots. So the bladderwort can be the same way. 
When collecting however do not always discount a "different colored" specimen. For example both the vallisneria and pondweed in the river full sun get a brownish red coloration that looks like crap when first placed in an aquarium, but then they really "green" up, my thinking is, like red plants get that hue for protection against higher light levels, the brown, rusty red color that some plants get is the same thing, and it usually goes right to green within a few days.


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## bigtrout (Sep 6, 2014)

Maybe we need to start a native plant thread...species, where collected, when and how it grew for you...i just found some polygonum along the river...put it in the tank,gonna do submerged, it turned toward the light in under half hour, thats usually a good sign that it may take.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

Polygonum may possibly be what I have identified as smartweed in this thread??

Speaking of Bladderwort I am not sure it will even survive in my tank, I just learned it is a carnivorous plant all those bladders can suck in water with insects. This is a rooted plant right? Will it get the nutrients it needs from the substrate and CO2? 

My de-rimmed 10 gallon tank has been upgraded to a 15.8 gallon conerless bow-front tank that is already rimless and very thick, I got it at a stunning deal so my slope will be in the center with deep ends on both sides. 


*Falling back to a still unidentified plant, I think I found a tiny young version close enough to shore to grab...I believe it is the same, any idea??*


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

jasa73 said:


> I would love to just go to a lake and pick up mermaid weed that looks like that!


Funny you say that I returned to the only spot I saw it and its gone now, must have been a rare spotting!



bigtrout said:


> Your idea looks great, and the only plant that you are suggesting that I personally have trouble with is your waterweed, but I keep livebearers in a 77 degree tank and it tends to not like the warm temperatures.


With the heatwave we have been in the last week or so I returned to my fav lake (the one I took most these photos at) and the water was down by about a foot or more in some places, and the water was very warm! From my observation of the temperature change the waterweed has dwindled out and the bladderwort is in full bloom even the tiny bladerworts were flowering probably because of the warmer temps.


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## bigtrout (Sep 6, 2014)

I have been cross referencing native pa plants and usda maps and known aquarium plants, found a few species that grow emersed or submerged that are probably native to ur area, they are plentiful down here along the allegheny river...trying several of these as we speak

Penthorum sedoides 
Lindernia dubia
Veronica americana
Lysimachia nummularia

All grow well emersed in wet soil, penthorum is supposed to be a really good stem plant submersed, as well as the lindernia.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

I may have come across Veronica americana or Lysimachia nummularia but the first two do not look appealing to me. I think that green ball of hair I picked up is just algae....

I have not collected a single plant yet but I am putting together a holding tank to grow plants out in pots because by the time I am ready to scape things will be dormant.


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## rtfish (Oct 2, 2014)

This is very educational for us MA folks! Thank you!


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## ThatGuyWithTheFish (Apr 29, 2012)

That would be hair algae.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

ThatGuyWithTheFish said:


> That would be hair algae.


Thanks! Nothing I want in my tank than? lol


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## NavyDogFish (Sep 11, 2013)

Teebo said:


> Thanks! Nothing I want in my tank than? lol


It has uses. I think some twin bar platy babies I had were eating it. You see people selling it on eBay sometimes because it is useful. If you know what nutrients it needs you can keep it alive in a pickle jar in a window or under a lamp. I put it in my tank or in the hang-on-box sometimes. If the algae does not attach to anything and is easy to remove it isn't as bad as other ones that cling to surfaces.


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## Adrand (Feb 13, 2012)

Im also in MA and have collected locally vals, cabomba and some beautiful ludwigia palustris. All have excelled in my tank. Ive enjoyed your posts thus far with the local species. Please keep it updated as you continue to collect. Best of luck.


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## xnok (Jul 27, 2012)

Teebo, I live in MA too, and am wondering which pond/swamp you discovered? This is awsome! If you don't mind, can you post some of these names?


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

Oh I thought all algae was bad, if it stays contained I may put some in my tank than!

Cabomba & Fanwort are the same right? Also ludwigia palustris looks like my Marsh Purslane?

Okay if anyone wants to collect plants, by far the most diverse pond side I have found with rocks to walk on and collect from is 'Parkers Pond' located in Gardner MA it is between West Street and Parker Street (at the bottom of both) the best side for collecting is the Parker Street side just off the railroad (which runs along the side of the pond for best collecting) I will post photos of the pond.


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## Adrand (Feb 13, 2012)

Here is what i collected and what i am referring to as ludwigia palustris. And yes i believe you are correct about the naming of the cabomba.


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## Krakozavr (Jul 3, 2015)

*Native plants*

Hello!
I think that 10gal tank will be too small for your idea. Many of plant you selected should growth too big.


The moss you show at the first picture is definitely NOT a sphagnum.

You may find for fissendis sp. (I found some places with a great fissendis around NY), and fontinalis. These moss will growth pretty good. Also, you can try to put any emersed moss into the water, many species, especially from a very wet space / water borders will growth underwater (but definitely not a sphagnum, if you will found it).

I have some native plants in my tank and in some tanks of my friends. For now, I have elatine triandra, two different fontinalis and one fissendis mosses, eleocharis sp., isoetes lacustris (?), Sagittaria subulata (?), Utricularia vulgaris (?), ludwigia palustris, Myriophyllum spicatum and Cabomba Caroliniana (yes, booth are invasive). I still have not success with potamogeton, can't found Proserpinaca. Will try also callitriche palustris / stagnalis, and elatine minima.

I tried nasturcium and Marsh St.-John's-wort, and some potamogetons, but without success. Will continue experimenting, potamogeton MUST be fine.


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## jasa73 (Jun 3, 2007)

I think we should have Native MA aquarium plant collecting meetup.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

I picked up a meat thermometer on a dongle for a few reasons, I do not like the appearance of aquarium thermometers and I can take the temperature of ponds; right now I am curious if it is the time of the year or the water temp driving away waterweed and causing bladderwort to thrive/flower. "_pondweed must be fine_" ? Not sure what that is suppose to mean. 











Adrand said:


> Here is what i collected and what i am referring to as ludwigia palustris. And yes i believe you are correct about the naming of the cabomba.


It does resemble Marsh Purslane I like the contrast of red and green!



Krakozavr said:


> Hello!
> I think that 10gal tank will be too small for your idea. Many of plant you selected should growth too big.
> 
> The moss you show at the first picture is definitely NOT a sphagnum.


I'm not sure if you saw it but I have since migrated to a 15.8G before I have even started, I will cram what I can 

I just grabbed a Google image for Sphagnum, I did not plan on submerging it either; part of my tank will be emerged substrate. 



jasa73 said:


> I think we should have Native MA aquarium plant collecting meetup.


I do not have time to travel much but if anyone wants to come to Gardner I will show you a few spots.


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## andygold (Dec 26, 2012)

Sorry to hijack!!! What is the preferred method to debug self-collected flora?


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

andygold said:


> Sorry to hijack!!! What is the preferred method to debug self-collected flora?


I would be interested in knowing as well  good place for this question! 

My guess before research is a quarantine tank to monitor and change water.


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## Qwe (Jul 8, 2013)

Teebo said:


> I would be interested in knowing as well  good place for this question!
> 
> My guess before research is a quarantine tank to monitor and change water.


That's my preferred method when I've collected plants. In your research you'll find that people tend to do dips, such as diluted bleach or some other chemical...


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## Krakozavr (Jul 3, 2015)

Teebo said:


> My guess before research is a quarantine tank to monitor and change water.


I did not quarantine plants. It have no real sens. Plants can't transmit any fishe's diseases. Yes, you can get some snail's caviar, but I don't worry about too much, in opposite, I like snails in my tanks  hydras and planarians may be an issue, but again, in the healthy tank it is not a big deal. Hydras may be killed easy with a small battery (they can't survive electrical shock), so I do it when I processing collected plants. But generally, I just rinse plants with a fresh water (just in the bathroom); during a rinsing I cleaning plants from algae manually. For a HARD plants, you can use hydrogen peroxide for algae killing; but only for a hard. To be honest, most plants will be killed with algae and small invertebrates together if you will use really working concentrations of any disinfectors like peroxide or permanganate, or so.

P.S. By the way, this is a really great site for a native plants of New Englans states identification: https://gobotany.newenglandwild.org/advanced/ - very good tool!

I recommend a full key for a beginners and dichotomous key for advanced. I collected plants most in Pennsylvania but also in NY around the NYC and westchester, this key works absolutely great 

This is my tank (about one month old; two days ago it was slightly replainted, but doesn't matter. Still not "as designed", but will be in some months, I hope  And yes, not all plats are native there. But many.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

Never thought of a dip before but not a bad idea, thanks for all the info once again! Your tank looks well established, I would like to see a New England native tank. Awesome site!!!


*Back at my honey hole pond again I bumped into some Milfoil under high sunlight (luckily not much) it effectively cleans the water haha look how dirty it gets compared to Fanwort which you can see in the photo:*










*This is a new one I found that I can not identify (and will search through that website) I just keep finding new species here I encourage anyone to check it out:*


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## Krakozavr (Jul 3, 2015)

*TEEBO*, The plant at the first photo looks more like a hornwort - ceratophyllum (not easy to tell by photo; check https://gobotany.newenglandwild.org/genus/ceratophyllum/ - and the second plant looks like cabomba (invasive).

The second photo representing the bladderwort (utricularia), probably vulgaris. Check https://gobotany.newenglandwild.org/genus/utricularia/
I see also something very similar to a najas (top right, defocused but recognizable) 

All these plants should growth easy in the tank (especially ceratophillum)


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

You may be right, I was seeing the thin soft appearance with a tapered point which lead me to Milfoil, as someone else said I do not have much room to play with, and seeing how Fanwort has another feature of small surface pads with a flower I may end up not using any Milfoil or Hornwort (they are both entirely submerged).

Regarding the second photo at first I thought I had found Waterwheel and ran home to compare photos and quickly realized it was not lol, it does not look like vulgaris to me? It does have a bladder-like structure but I have not seen any Bladderwort like this before (notice the structure of the tip it looks like Baby's Breath). The top right I am almost 100% is Pondweed from my focused pictures. 


*Now for some encouragement for you guys to migrate over to Gardner! This is Parker Pond, it is fed by two completely separate water sources; a long river coming down from wetlands as well as another dammed pond. The green line is where you will find everything, which is where the water exits Parker Pond so everything hits that rocky edge and flows along it toward the dam (blue circle). The red circle is where the dammed pond feeds Parker Pond.*










*This is the river in the red circle coming from the dammed pond, as you can see the river itself has pond plants! Look at that extremely healthy thriving clump of Pondweed!! It then flows under the main road and enters Parker Pond but this is not the side you want to access it from, keep reading* 


















*This is the green line location which is where you want to be, the entire shoreline is lined with big rocks it is like going to the ocean only you get to pick through fresh water crevices you can literally collect plants wearing a suit on your way home from work here and not even get your feet wet. Check out a sample of what is hiding under the water at your feet!*


















*This is looking toward the dam (you can see a big open area on the water surface I think the drawing current is too strong for plants to grow near the dam) look really closely there is a nice little natural area that looks like a Koi Pond in front of your own eyes you just have to get up close*  


















*This is a panoramic shot of the best collecting spot, it is literally a giant wild Koi-style pond you will find so much here and nobody cares what you take because the pond is way overgrown!*










*The water level is a bit low right now in the heat so you can see the aquatic life across the entire pond, the pond is not stocked but naturally thrives with fish you can even see fish bowls in the sand all along the collecting edge by the rocks within the Fanwort. This pond also has a Beaver!*










*Do I have your attention now? haha ok so here is the best way to access the collecting spot; park in the parking lot of the restaurant called Duguay's (make sure it is not Monday or Tuesday as they are closed) do grab yourself some lunch or dinner their fried chicken and seafood is one of a kind and you will smell it at the collecting area and want to try it anyway lol. The address is 632 Parker St, Gardner, MA 01440. You will walk the red line up the road and vola!*


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## jasa73 (Jun 3, 2007)

Ok, i totally want to go. If you're serious about being our guide, I'll want to come out before it gets cold!


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## Steve001 (Feb 26, 2011)

Teebo said:


> You may be right, I was seeing the thin soft appearance with a tapered point which lead me to Milfoil, as someone else said I do not have much room to play with, and seeing how Fanwort has another feature of small surface pads with a flower I may end up not using any Milfoil or Hornwort (they are both entirely submerged).
> 
> Regarding the second photo at first I thought I had found Waterwheel and ran home to compare photos and quickly realized it was not lol, it does not look like vulgaris to me? It does have a bladder-like structure but I have not seen any Bladderwort like this before (notice the structure of the tip it looks like Baby's Breath). The top right I am almost 100% is Pondweed from my focused pictures.
> 
> ...


 Why not park closer on the residential street?


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

Steve001 said:


> Why not park closer on the residential street?


You can if you want...I do not like parking on the side of the road.


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## Steve001 (Feb 26, 2011)

Teebo said:


> You can if you want...I do not like parking on the side of the road.


I meant the side road back in the neighborhood? It would make for a shorter walk.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

*My apologies to anyone who has sent me a long message I may not have been able to reply to, a lot of people seem to be slamming my inbox and I just do not have time to reply to all of them in length AND maintain my threads* :icon_frow



Steve001 said:


> I meant the side road back in the neighborhood? It would for a shorter walk.


Totally up to you, people park right at the entrance to the pond off the main road all the time. I walk all over so this is nothing for me I walk from my home just out of frame but its a farther walk than the restaurant.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

Adrand said:


> Here is what i collected and what i am referring to as ludwigia palustris.


*I believe I found your plant today! If you Google 'Marsh Purslane' you will find it is the same exact plant that I posted in this thread. How is yours doing submerged I have not found it submerged yet, I did find it in a drought here today though:*





















Krakozavr said:


> Hello!
> I think that 10gal tank will be too small for your idea. Many of plant you selected should growth too big.


*This is the 15.8 gallon I said I bumped up to it is a much nicer tank, it is a National Geographic tank that was already rimless...I will pack what I can in this as my native tank. Since it is a bow front I will no longer be using the layout posted at the beginning of this thread, I will have my deep ends on the sides with my surface plants growing from a built up center with a stump on top. I want the stump to emerge from the water and since you can (rarely) find native pitcher plants here I will grow one out of the top of the stump* :icon_smil










*The lighting on the top tank is temporary I will actually be suspending my light array off the wall on a custom bracket, and my derimmed 10 gallon I moved to the bottom and will use to hold plants I collect until I am ready to scape the top tank. I ordered a canister filter for my top tank so I used the filter that came with it on the 10 gallon since it is brand new and more than enough for a 10 gallon, I removed the charcoal and added filter floss:*










*I am pretty much ready to start collecting plants now, since I am not using CO2 down here I still need a water nutrient though. I will plant in containers using organic soil with gravel on top, I ordered some Osmocote capsules to use in the containers as a substrate fertilizer. I will need a way to test the fertilizer levels in the water so things like Bladderwort & Duckweed will have to wait I think. I may use a suction cup planter or two so I can start to establish those now:*


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## Adrand (Feb 13, 2012)

Yes it appears marsh purslane is the common name for ludwigia palustris. It has done well submerged in my tank although i found it submerged in a pond already. The color has changed though and looks more close to ludwigia repens now. Im sure that is due to the different lighting and nutrients levels in my tank vs the original pond it was in.


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## Krakozavr (Jul 3, 2015)

Teebo said:


> I am not using CO2 down here


CO2 + lighting are a key for a good planted tank. Especially for a native plants many of which will be not easy for adaptation. Acid/soda DIY reactor is a cheap, safe and reliable source of CO2. I strongly suggest to purchase it


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

Adrand said:


> Yes it appears marsh purslane is the common name for ludwigia palustris. It has done well submerged in my tank although i found it submerged in a pond already. The color has changed though and looks more close to ludwigia repens now. Im sure that is due to the different lighting and nutrients levels in my tank vs the original pond it was in.


I really like the red/green contrast, I will be using it. 



Krakozavr said:


> CO2 + lighting are a key for a good planted tank. Especially for a native plants many of which will be not easy for adaptation. Acid/soda DIY reactor is a cheap, safe and reliable source of CO2. I strongly suggest to purchase it


Yeah I know, this is just a holding tank I thought I could keep them alive (maybe not thriving) with an air pump using the CO2 in the air & Pps-pro fertilizer(s). Maybe not? I will be running a 2.5lb bottle on my native aquascaped tank above. 


*Out looking at ponds during low waters I noticed a lot of what appears to be residential grass, looks like it will make a great carpet (you do not see submerged carpeting in the wild here). The thing is you only see this where the water has retracted and I do not know why, I did see it in a few select spots grown out under water in direct sunlight so I think you need intense light submerged? Any idea? *


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## Steve001 (Feb 26, 2011)

Teebo said:


> I really like the red/green contrast, I will be using it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Looks like a specimen of eleocharis or one of isoetes. Could you take a macrophoto?


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## TMarquis (Mar 6, 2012)

*Native plants*

As a planted tank hobbyist from west-central Ohio, I have grown many of the native plants shown in the pictures. However, I have never heard of the names that have been given to most of the plants in the pictures. The names I am familiar with are mostly scientific names as the common names are not given with most of the publications I have. I have found that most of these plants benefit from a rich substrate. and do well with light levels equivalent to two fluorescent "daylight" bulbs for whatever size aquarium they are in. Some plants, such as "watercress" need very high levels of light to do well - as much a twice what I have specified.


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## Krakozavr (Jul 3, 2015)

TMarquis, did you have had some experience with Elatine Minima / Americana? I found dry small info about this plant bug I have a strong interest for.


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## Krakozavr (Jul 3, 2015)

And yes, friends, please let's to using scientific names as possible, it will be much more informative and useful


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## bigtrout (Sep 6, 2014)

I also keep native pa plants, i have a native plant thread everyone can add their experience with native plants...slowly getting notes on the 20 species i have tried so far.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

I will have to take a macro when I return. 

I have a hard time remembering and pronouncing the scientific names but the slang sticks and Google seems to translate it for me.


*I finally put something together outdoors on my porch, the plants are un-dipped I cleaned everything by hand in the sink. I will dip them before I bring them inside but I am worried about too much stress on them right now with transplanting. I only have 4-5 weeks before I need to bring them in so should be enough time to see if anything will take and experiment for now. I did add a few new emerging species not in this thread I will identify them later, one I would like to point out though is that fern. I see them at the waters edge but never emerging from the water so I am not sure if it will live or not but it is worth a shot. I seem to be having an issue with Fanwort/Ceratophyllum they loose their green hue and fall apart, so after this photo I replanted it using smaller and younger specimens; I would find a healthy specimen pull it up and cut off all the shoots leaving just a few young short shoots with a large root system hoping less foliage to wilt will mean a quicker establishment?*


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## NotCousteau (Sep 25, 2014)

That looks great!


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

Thanks 

Algae is a constant battle right now in the sun outdoors, I can only guess without a test kit but, I believe the Miracle Grow potting soil I used is full of nitrates and causing algae blooms (green water) it just keeps fast-releasing into the water so I do a lot of water changes. 

I should have started this earlier by the time things take and I know what dies it will be too late in the season to replace it indoors. I am also not sure how deep of gravel these plants are capable of pushing new growth up through.


*EDIT: Everything in this pot seems to be doing okay, I have Pond Weed along with something I am not sure what it is I thought it was Curly Leaf Weed because there is no main stalk but I am not sure. The water is still an algae battle I am doing 50% daily water changes and using Algaecide, no fish so I am not using any water conditioner.* 










*Still questioning if the Fanwort/Ceratophyllum is going to take or make a come back...my biggest challenge aside from algae is keeping this stuff alive! Any advice?*


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

*Just an update it has been a few days, the Fanwort and Ceratophyllum are still dying off even the small very young single strands of Ceratophyllum that are submerged are in question now. However the Ceratophyllum rooted in water with foliage above water seem to be doing great! Even those if you look close enough have wilted foliage under water so I am thinking it needs to be established dry first THEN submerged? *










*The Marsh St. Johnswort is also dying off, you can see the larger one is yellowing from the bottom and the smaller one that I think is connected to the same root system seems to be doing okay, I am making the relation between large transplants dying. *










*Surprisingly 'knock on wood' the sensitive bead fern seems to be doing okay hasn't gone soft or rotted but may not last long term with a submerged root system:*










*I am a bit curious if the high amounts of nitrogen (mostly ammoniacal) are causing my problems as well, I am tearing this tank down tomorrow to re-substrate it and this is why: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=922681*


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## Krakozavr (Jul 3, 2015)

Ceratophilum have no roots, and it looks very different. It's one if Miriophilum species at your last pictures. It is a much more delicate plant, especially this one. I have it in one of my curated tank (Low-tech, no CO2, no fertilization); for year it still like this at your picture - not dead nor alive. 

I posted the link to the GoBotany site here in the thread, check the key, you will found your plants. It's not a very difficult to do.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

Someone else has said that too; Parrots Feather they were calling it yet I have not seen it in a pond looking the way Google represents it. 

I just checked on the tank and the little shoot has grown in this photo, and if you look real closely you can see another tiny shoot starting under it and it is now the size of the other shoot so I think it is coming back already its just that I have to start over with foliage apparently.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

*My tanks are on the run again lol I am in a race to keep native plants alive until I am ready to aquascape my 3 bow-front tanks. I tore down my outdoor 10G and built a shelf in my basement, I also snagged a brand new TopFin 5.5G tank with new filter and LED hood all in an opened box for $10 so I had to take it.*










*So basically the plan now is as follows (just to keep stuff alive) in the 5.5G I will have Cabomba caroliniana/Ceratophilum, Ludwigia Palustris, Pondweed, etc. The 10G will hold Watershield (Brasenia) on one side and white water lily (Nymphaea Alba) on the other side with Rush (Juncaceae) in the middle, and Duckweed floating about in both tanks. 


Using that flowerbox on the floor in front of the rack (with a plugged up bottom) I will try to keep emergers alive such as Bur-reed (Sparganium), Arrowhead (Sagittaria), Cat Tail (Typha) and a few others I cant seem to identify on that website.*


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## Krakozavr (Jul 3, 2015)

I don't know about TopFin exactly. But I observed some "LED hoods" from different tanks, and I can tell that it is just a little more than nothing. I'm pretty sure that this standard LED how will be same piece of a garbage ;/ plants like ceratophillum doesn't require a lot of light (but you have not a ceratophillum I believe) but many other will do, especially nimphaeas.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

There will be no nymphaea in this tank, the LED is weak but a lot of this submerged stuff grows under lily pads where the light is weak and I wont have much algae problems. I can easily expand on the lighting if need be I have LEDs laying all over the place. Upstairs in my 3 cornerless bow-fronts I use all 10K LEDs I personally like 10K lighting if you think it looks like a reef tank then put it next to 20K and you will change your mind lol


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

*Definitely need more light I think I may add some 10K to these tanks, this is as far as I got today but I need to get lighting on the bottom tank.* 










*I pulled new plants from the pond with good root systems so I have my fingers crossed they will come back if they wilt, several species in here plus some grass-like stuff that was attached to some so I rolled with it. This time I used MG Organic Choice soil I am hoping for much better results than on my porch:*










*Watershield on left, Rush in center, and white lily on right. I will keep my emerging plants alive on the floor I will pot them up tomorrow and put them in a tub of water they will share the light with the 10G tank:*


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## Krakozavr (Jul 3, 2015)

Looks like you finally have a ceratophyllum (in the pot at right - bigger one). Also tiny plant in background looks like a potamogeton sp. Is you took it with a roots? If not, it will probably gone.

Of course I'm not sure, photo is not a very informative


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

I have several ceratophyllum-like plants in that pot I hope they all live. Yes of course it is rooted I would not take it if it wasent. More to come


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## Krakozavr (Jul 3, 2015)

Ceratophilum will newer have roots. Is it have, it's something different - probably some species of the miriophillum genus but not necessary


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

*Checkout this cluster compared to the last photo, it has turned toward the light and is doing better in low light!* 










*I added a CO2 diffuser on my air line and much more is being dissolved into the water now I can see the bubbled get smaller as they rise!*










*Some of the others are going into shock but will come back, I am not sure however if all this oxygen on my heater is okay??*










*Temporarily I put a 23W CFL on the outside edge of the tank to provide light to the 10G AND emerging plants on floor, I will play with the lighting this week...I know in the wild plants in the top tank naturally get less sunlight.*


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

Krakozavr said:


> Looks like you finally have a ceratophyllum (in the pot at right - bigger one). Also tiny plant in background looks like a potamogeton sp. Is you took it with a roots? If not, it will probably gone.


Looking closely I think you are right about the potamogeton sp. seems to be hanging on. I do think I have a ceratophyllum although someone is trying to tell me it is Myriophyllum aquaticum...which I do think I have as well they are just young and harder to identify right now.



Krakozavr said:


> I observed some "LED hoods" from different tanks, and I can tell that it is just a little more than nothing. I'm pretty sure that this standard LED how will be same piece of a garbage.


*Alright man as I said I totally agree with you and I did something about it, I de-hooded the tank and wired up two 9W 10K LED bulbs with the lenses removed to diffuse the light instead of a spotty effect. The tank consumes 18W if I am lucky and seems well lit to me. Below is a 10W 6,500K LED floodlight that does a better job than that CFL that consumes 23W, if you notice the plants on the floor are lit much better with this light. I will remove it from the stand and bolt it to the shelf then add some 10K to the bottom tank, the 10W floodlight seems to light both the 10G and the plants on the floor adequately so I may just add one 10K bulb. *


























*I found a healthy piece of Bladderwort but it is already wilting in my tank which means Duckweed probably will not survive either but I will add some and see. I am very happy I moved the tank indoors we had a heavy rainfall and rain would have made an impact on the plants, I have less algae inside although the tank still turns green after a few days, I am thinking 10K lighting will also help me 'live with' minor algae:*


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

*Just an update the Fanwort just will not go for me, however the (I think Myriophyllum aquaticum?) has stopped wilting and the tips have came back so those will definitely take!* 










*I accidentally ended up with a small lily pad root and decided to plant it anyway, to my surprise it is something weird! I have never seen air balls develop on pads before to help float them, they were not there when I planted it a week ago at the time I thought it was a baby Bull Lily because of how round the back edges are:*


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## NavyDogFish (Sep 11, 2013)

Would any Massachusetts members of this forum like to start a project where we find and trade plants as well as invertebrates (for a planted, fishless tank) from vernal pools, streams, rivers and freshwater ponds?


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## NavyDogFish (Sep 11, 2013)

jasa73 said:


> I think we should have Native MA aquarium plant collecting meetup.


I also believe we should have a Massachusetts planted tank meetup. I would also like people from MA to be aware that there is a place to see maps of protected vernal pools and vernal pool candidates... it uses the "Oliver" mapping system which is explained here:
http://www.mass.gov/anf/research-an...erv/office-of-geographic-information-massgis/

See the maps below:

*MassGIS Data - NHESP Certified Vernal Pools:*
http://www.mass.gov/anf/research-an...aphic-information-massgis/datalayers/cvp.html

*MassGIS Data - NHESP Potential Vernal Pools:*
http://www.mass.gov/anf/research-an...aphic-information-massgis/datalayers/pvp.html

It takes some time to figure out how to use the map program but here is an example of what it looks like:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7q3vk1vglbw6piy/CambridgeClosestVernalPools.jpg

...and here is that same location on *Google Maps*:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/B...2!3m1!1s0x89e377dcc8eb2895:0x3a2554d859a4317f

Not only will you find some still-water plants from Massachusetts in the vernal pools, but also invertebrates that you can raise to feed your fish live food. Unfortunately due to the lack of rain these days most of the pools are likely dry, but they should be full from Fall through Winter and into Spring.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

*Getting back to plants (sorry I ran off into the hardware) I have had Watershield (Brasenia) in my Lily tank for a few weeks now and I have noticed some of the leaves develop spots before they reach the surface which rot, it grows plenty of leaves and thrives but the leaves do not always open healthy:*










*Another thing is I put heaters in my tanks a week ago and the heater in my Lily tank has developed some weird growth on it in particular but not in my other tank...*


















*Only thing I can think of is it is coming from the Watershield, on the new growth tips there is a slimy waterproof encasing that you can not even really wash off...but with all the new growth I can see it is breaking away is this transparent slime alive? It seems protective but maybe it is not even part of the plant?? *


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

*Things are not doing so well, I get bursts of growth then they do not stretch and yellow...its been quite a few water changes with nothing but tap water and Miracle Grow organic soil I have no test kit...nutrient deficiency? Algae seems to have no problem finding nutrients lol frequent tap water harming them? *


















*Still not sure what this funk was about, I let it dry and this is what I ended up with...and it smells like cheddar cheese eww.* 










*The rush in this tank seems to be doing fine half this is new growth:*


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

*Just over the NH boarder I climbed Mt. Monadnock as I typically do several times in the summer, I found vernal pools on top but not much inside them. This was a nice thick carpet of sphagnum moss:*










*At the very top there were amazing pools checkout the horizon! These are two completely separate pools:*


















*Just some sort of grass and hair algae...possibly some methane bubbles:*


















*Only other thing was possible parrot feather or something? Very simplistic up there:*


















*Some of the pools got very basic and lifeless such as this one, I call it the sky-top bathtub*


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## ufimych (May 30, 2011)

This is a very interesting idea. It seems to me a 10 gallon tank is too small for this kind of project. Besides, native plants of your region need a winter break for their natural life history.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

I have it spread into a 5.5G as well, just until my real tanks are ready. The plan has changed I am just keeping things alive. I read some plants can avoid a dormancy period in a controlled environment. I dosed with Osmocote Plus and things seem to be perking up already within 46 hours.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

*Alright it has been a while now maybe 4-6 weeks, many water changes, I think the nutrients that were in the Miracle Grow Organic soil have diminished through water changes, the pots breath unlike a dirted bottom of a tank and possibly release nutrients faster. After a week the plants overcame shock and went into a growth spurt, then hit a brick wall and completely stopped growing. I am puzzled right now, I added an Osmocote capsule to each pot 7-10 days ago and I do see some improvement but nothing like the week of growth I got! Temperature stays at 74F and I have zero fish, I use no tap water conditioner during water changes. I have one conclusion, I need CO2; yes you can get away with low-tech tanks without CO2 BUT I think only with certain plants, and that is not the case with my native plants?

Look at this Watershield (Brasenia) it is practically dead!*










*The Nymphaea alba has started showing some signs of improvement, the yellowing has slowed or possibly reversed, stretching to the surface has begun again, the white slimy root base has turned to beard algae now? I know CO2 will help the beard algae so that's another reason to get a CO2 system:*










*I am 100% sure now that everything in this pot is Parrots Feather (Myriophyllum aquaticum) it is a very hard plant to identify because it completely changes form when it matures and it can mature at short length or long, the premature foliage is thick and stiff and the mature foliage is more hair-like, about 50% of what I cut and sink into the substrate will root and grow the other half dies and makes a mess in the tank. It does however seem to be very sensitive to water changes, it causes the foliage on the middle of the stem to wilt and fall off I am not sure if it needs CO2 or if its the bending over factor of the low water level during water changes that is the factor.* 










*I added this pot last week because I am scrambling to beat the dormant cycle my window is closing fast here, it has some sort of grass and Pondweed: *


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

*More updates, I really think some of these plants are not going to grow without CO2...the pondweed grew then stopped, and the grass is dwindling. *


















*The Ludwigia seems to be doing okay though:*










*Keep in mind I added Osmocote capsules to everything, the parrots feather seems to be randomly exploding in some areas! Must be close to the Osmocote capsules...*










*The watershield and lilies are doing horrible, after I added Osmocote the lilies exploded but never stretched and have now begun to die off I would not think "pad" plants would rely so much on CO2?*


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

*I found another pond edge in MA with some plant life. Hair grass, looks like Moneywort, and I think a val of some sort...unless its just a wilted Typha.*


















*Again I swear this is a val of some sort:*










*Then there was this, I thought it was uprooted grass along the shore but it turns out to be a floating plant with a similar structure to Spanish Moss?*


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## Bananableps (Nov 6, 2013)

I am loving these pics! Any updates?



Teebo said:


> Then there was this, I thought it was uprooted grass along the shore but it turns out to be a floating plant with a similar structure to Spanish Moss?


Najas. Very fast growing, very very messy in an aquarium.


I know I suggest this for everything, but you should really try growing these out with dirt. I had some nice success over the summer growing wild-collected aquatic plants this way. This would most closely replicate the environment where you collected these plants, so acclimation might be better.


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## Teebo (Jul 15, 2015)

No updates, I did not collect anything as I am moving to Florida in a few weeks. I really have to lay off the planted tanks for a while, I will not have the room where I am going. All I can manage for a while will be a planted pico tank.

Thanks for the identification!


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