# AcidGambit's Planted UNS 40C



## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

Hi everyone, after a long hiatus from childhood, I got back into fish keeping and quickly became enamored with planted tanks. My first attempt was in a Fluval Flex 15, with a moss/bonsai wood "tree." Shortly after planting it, it started to develop algae due to proximity to my lights. The moss grew and it filled in the "tree," but then the underlying attachments to the wood rotted and the moss came off. The whole experience was due to a lack of planning on my part.

The Fluval Flex 15 was nice, but I'm going to move forward with the following setup:

Equipment
UNS 40C cube tank (16.9 gallons)
Twinstar 300C LED with dimmer
Eheim Classic 250 Filter
Hydor ETH 200 in-line heater
Custom-made in-line temperature sensor
UNS Mini CO2 regulator (5# bottle)
Atomic inline diffusor
Cal Aqua lily pipes

I'm still planning out the final mix of plants, but the tank will feature a carpet of Monte Carlo, which I am currently growing out using DSM. I am using Tropica Aquarium Soil (powder) for substrate. The hardscape includes Ryuoh stone and spider wood.




























The Monte Carlo was weak when planted because I left it sitting in the shipping box for almost a week before I planted it. It took a while for the Monte Carlo to take off (even with DSM), but I think that it should be completely filled in within two weeks.










I have another pico tank that I am going to put together this week, but then I'll be asking for help to finalize the plants for this tank. Stay tuned!


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

Getting closer now!










I also started soaking the driftwood. I'll post proposed plans for plants at the end of the week.


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

Well, it's finally time. I've come here seeking help so that I can order the plants next week and start planting now that the Monte Carlo carpet is well grown and rooted. 

I superimposed the layout that I am thinking of on the image below:










Region A: Alternanthera Reineckii ‘Mini'. The idea here is for the plant to grow out and weave between the different stems of the wood.

Region B: Staurogyne Repens. It will follow the curvature of the rocks coming down the slope to separate the Monte Carlo carpet from Region C.

Region C: Cryptocoryne Flamingo or Cryptocoryne Albida Red. Thoughts appreciated on choosing between the two.

Region D/E: Myriophyllum Elatinoides or Rotala Bossii (leaning toward the first one). There is an inch or so for stems behind the rocks and driftwood. It's probably too narrow for two plants, so maybe it should really just be Region D. With the plan to have a bright red plant emerging through the drift wood, I was thinking that a green stem plant might go well here as contrast.

In addition, I will be planting a bunch of different buces and anubias nana pangolino along the rocks and in the one big knot toward the outside of the driftwood, as well as some anubias nana pinto out of the "front" of the wood.

I really appreciate any and all help. Please keep in mind that I will have CO2 injection, Twinstar 300C LED lighting, and will be dosing EI-style with the UNS liquid fertilizers.


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

Plants are here!


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Should be an interesting tank to follow along with.


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

First step was to apply privacy film to the back of the tank. I went with this etched glass film because the stand that I will be using for this tank has an LED strip light around its border, which I am hoping will diffuse up through the film, creating a nice effect.

Before









After


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

I started with the Cryptocoryne Flamingo and S. Repens. The Flamingo was a little rough looking, so I'm hoping that it will recover:










And I also planted the Myriophyllum Elatinoides before placing the wood. I used tissue cultures and didn't realize how dainty the plant was:










The wood fit in well.










And then it was time to plant the Alternanthera Reineckii ‘Mini' and the Alternathera Rosanervig stems amongst the wood.




























Bump: Then it was buce time!










Then disaster struck! I was filling the tank using a piece of bubble wrap to diffuse the water as to not disrupt anything. But it caught on the wood as I was pulling it out, which ripped up a lot of the plants that I had worked so hard to plant (the stems amongst the wood were particularly tricky).










I'll have to do some more repair work with the stems, but the silver lining is that it opened up more space in the front to plant more Alternanthera Reineckii ‘Mini' that I had leftover.



















I'm done for the night, but I will pick up tomorrow at some point to get the filter/heater/CO2 running.


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

These pictures show the effect of the etched glass film on the back of the tank in combination with the Philips Hue light strip I put around the back of the tank. I didn't realize that the tank seams would also pull in the color from the lights, but I like it.


















These are what the lights look like along the back of the tank.










I was going to use the UNS Mini CO2 regulator, but I changed my mind and my GLA GRO-1 arrives tomorrow. At that point I am going to start everything up and remove the temporary heater that I have sitting in the tank. I'll also post pictures of my equipment setup at that point.


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

My CO2 regulator arrived today, which means I can finally get everything running.










This is the setup underneath my cabinet, with power strip and tank strap attached to the back wall:










I can post more pics if anyone is interested, but my filter, heater, and diffuser sit in a plastic tub, to lower the risk of a leak causing damage. I also made a DIY inline temperature probe that reports to my home automation system:










Finally, this is my tank with everything running. The water got pretty cloudy/scummy (and I had a bunch of plant melt), so the light doesn't seem nearly as bright. I'm hoping that the filter can make quick work of it. Also, I'd like to say that the Eheim filter is very quiet. I can hear the Azoo Mignon filters on my pico tanks from across the room, but I can't hear the Eheim from three feet away.


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

*Failure...*

So, it's been a week or two since I posted my post-planting pictures. In that time I've had a ton of melting, some algae, and probably made some questionable decisions. Here is the (sad) current state of the tank (after trimming the Monte Carlo carpet):










All stems are pretty much gone (melted), along with the Alternanthera Reineckii ‘Mini'. I can live with those losses because I just need to buy new plants and try again. But I'm really bummed over the state of my monte carlo carpet. I'm not sure what caused it, but I had the following happen:


Didn't start filter for several days
Left tank unheated for a day
Went 4-5 days without CO2
Had a few days where CO2 was running like crazy (diffuser was initially difficult to get open, but then it started opening at much lower pressure, which happened while I was away on vacation)
Freaked out when I saw a bunch of algae on the carpet and dosed Excel

So now I'm staring at a carpet that is severely damages, a carpet which I spent 2+ months growing out using the dry-start method. I also have my office in disarray because I thought that I would be able to move all of my livestock over from my Fluval Flex 15. I'd really appreciate anyone's input on this, anything else I can do to save the remaining carpet, or words of encouragement. I'm hoping that I can stabilize the carpet and have it grow back. Luckily, it seems like the buces and anubias are starting to recover.


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## kaldurak (May 2, 2010)

Long waiting game at this point. Any monte carlo roots still left will grow anew unless you yanked it all. Everything is transitioning from its emmersed growth.


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

Do you think that it is worth attempting to plant some of the stems again, or should I wait until the carpet comes back to life?


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## Harvest (Nov 20, 2018)

Acid,

Sorry to see your hard earned results melt like that. Your tank was beautiful before the melt off. While im still a newbie here and still learning. I feel that your plans were having a difficult time with the transition from immersed to submersed conditions. Normally you get some die back when flooding the tank. This coupled with the fact you had no co2 for 4-5 days. From what I've read and seen when you first immerse your plants you really want to crank the co2 then dial it back over a week or so. I think stem plants would be ok as long as they have been kept immersed before.


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

Thank you. The good news is that as I sit here typing, there is some very minor pearling (a bubble here and there) coming off the healthier sections of my carpet, which gives me hope. I'll keep everyone posted.


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

Here I am again. The die off on the monte carlo carpet seems to be complete, but I am starting to see tiny green shoots of new life in several spots, as you can see below. Unfortunately, I had the pressure too high on my python during a refill, so I blasted some of the roots out of one spot.










I also got another shipment of plants from Glass Aqua (everything looks very healthy), so I am going to fill in some spots tonight during tonight's water change, as well as add some more foliage to the wood centerpiece.


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

So far I'm mostly happy with the plantings. It was more difficult than I thought to re-plant monte carlo in bare spots, especially given how long the potted version is. I do really like the stems I added, so I hope that they make it. And the additional anubias nana petite on the wood makes it looks a lot fuller.










With this I was able to fully shutdown my old tank and regain the look of my office:


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## TheLordOfTheFish (Mar 11, 2017)

I got most of my plants from glass aqua and I can't speak highly enough of those guys. Also, similar thing happened to my 55 gallon. I lost maybe 30% of my plants, most of the ones that were near the bottom It was the ADA high ammonia start. Once I tossed in a few bottles of bacteria (I know, I overreacted), things got better. I do recommend syphoning out dead plant material.


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## lab_fly (May 6, 2018)

I'm not at all an expert, but just one of my thoughts to consider:

It looks like you have a ton of dead MC. I would consider cutting out anything that is dead. I did this once and it seemed to help the remaining living parts.

Also, kudos for posting while your tank is crashing. Last time my tank crashed, I didn't have the motivation to post. I wish I had because then when it recovered I could have seen how far it came. All I know is I cut out 80% of my MC, and it's back to a solid carpet now.


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## anfield (Dec 1, 2013)

Ive grown monte carlo in dry start and transitioned it without CO2. I think it was just a bad combination of things for you. I did dose excel regularly. Flourish advance worked really well for me and I would give it a try. 

I also agree that you should probably get rid of the dead plants.


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

Thank you. I was worried that I was going to rip up roots or viable plants in the process, but it's become more clear what portions of the monte carlo are dead. Looks like I have some work to do at the next water change!

On a positive note, my pink flamingo crypt (which looked rough when I received it) is starting to throw up new leaves.


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

I've noticed that the plants in my tank have lost their lower leaves and that the remaining Monte Carlo has a lot of vertical shoots, so I'm guessing that my light is not putting out enough light. I purchased an Aqua Worx Orion 12" light to replace my Twinstar. The Orion has twice the output (24 Watts) and is supposed to be give 100 PAR at 14" (the lowest point of the substrate in my 16" tank).










I ripped out all of the dead Monte Carlo and some portions that were basically growing in/on a fuzzy algae. The remainder is showing some promising signs by throwing off a few horizontal runners.










I'll be ordering more Monte Carlo online once it comes in stock.

In addition, I'm seeing what I think are two flowers forming off of two of my buce (pics below). I'd love to hear from buce experts regarding whether these are flowers.


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## noman120 (Jul 23, 2018)

Those are def buce flowers! Congrats, I have never gotten that to happen, bc I have killed the few I have had. I also did dry start & have a pretty robust MC carpet and I think the key was 3 bubbles per second of co2 for a month or so as well as a really good filter flow. MC loves high light in my experience and I bet you will get good results, the MC I got from Glass Aqua was a bit leggy like yours, but it looks like now that you have a solid PAR light and tons of co2 the leggy ones laid down to become runners, so all in all I think you are going to have something really great in 1 month or so. My MC went crazy once it finally took hold.


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

Another week, another water change. I skipped an update last week because the water change was a disaster: (1) my glass inflow pipe shatter in my hand when I was trying to change it and (2) I stopped paying attention to my python during fill up, which resulted in a waterfall down the back of the tank.

Fortunately, this week was much better. I replaced the inflow and outflow with stainless pipes from Dymax. And I planted a few more pots of Monte Carlo to speed up the recovery of my carpet. The clumps I have are doing well under my new light, and are throwing out a lot of runners. And I finally had a buce flower start to open today (middle of the picture). I have three buce flowers in various stages of bloom.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Beautiful tank. And those rummy-nose are ( with their bright red noses) telling you they are happy.


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

Thank you! It's funny that you mention that because only one of the six had strong coloring when I bought them at my LFS. I thought that maybe I had only one male and the employee thought that the lack of color was because the fish were young. They colored up within a day of getting them home!


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## ipkiss (Aug 9, 2011)

Kudos for persisting through the monte carlo and other melt fiasco and sticking to your vision. By luck or skill, you have chosen monte carlo as a carpet and in my experience and noting from the comments of a few others, it's probably one of the least demanding carpets.

If it helps, you can totally just spread the submerged monte carlo that you now have. I've managed to do so pretty easily. Just snip and replant. Even the small castoff stems are capable of taking and turning into its own plant, but obviously, the bigger stems are more capable. For a while and I still do, as I snip, the castoffs get caught up in my floaters and I "conveniently" forget to clean them up thoroughly (read: it's too hard) and they grow into their own plants in the face of high light. If I feel like it, I'll grab a couple of them and jab them back down into the mix. Like other carpet plant advice, it's probably more successful if you take the time to spread them out into as much individual plantlets as your back and patience will allow you to.

you did good by going stainless in/out flows! I always found glass pipes too demanding. It's a nice look, yes, but I'm too lazy for that kind of upkeep  

Congrats too, for the new crypt flamingo leaves. I, too, had spent more money and time than I care to worrying about it and it's still touch and go for now. Will be following this tank as I like your plant selections!

good luck!


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Congratulations on persisting through the tough times, learning, and growing as the keeper of a planted tank. Keep up the good work, and you have a new subscriber who will be following along!


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

AcidGambit said:


> Thank you! It's funny that you mention that because only one of the six had strong coloring when I bought them at my LFS. I thought that maybe I had only one male and the employee thought that the lack of color was because the fish were young. They colored up within a day of getting them home!


 As far as their noses are concerned, both the males and females should have bright red noses when healthy and happy. 

This coloration fades and brightens depending on level of stress.Actually, the rummy-nose has long been considered the "canary in the coal mine fish" because its nose can be an early indicator of issues in the tank overall.


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

Slowly but surely, the buce flowers are emerging:


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

Here's another update, and I apologize for the delay in posting. The Monte Carlo is starting to thrive and I am seeing a lot of runners:










And this is the furthest that any of my buce flowers has gotten:










In the coming week I need to pay attention to the stem plants in the back. It seems like they have acclimated and I am getting solid growth at the top, but the bottoms lost their leaves. I'll need to top them this week so that I go forward with all-healthy plants. I also need to do a better job trimming off some of the buce leaves that are infested with algae. Finally, I think that I am going to try again to plant AR mini between the big rock on the left and the piece of driftwood.

Bump: I'm also going to add some more livestock to the tank next week: 6 more rummy nose tetra, to bring the total to 12; 5 more Amano shrimp (hoping that they can take care of algae on the drift wood); and 2 bamboo shrimp. I'm hoping that the location of the driftwood relative to the inflow and outflow will give the bamboo shrimp a good place to eat.


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## tredford (Jun 29, 2018)

Awesome, looks like the recovery is well under way.  The crypt flamingo still seems to be going strong, too. Thanks for the update.


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

Not much to say in this update, but I am excited to show that the bamboo shrimp have found a place to filter, especially because they disappeared for the first two weeks after I introduced them. Now they stay out in the high-flow location, even with the lights on. They're really neat to watch.


















I'm also going to switch from the UNS fertilizer that I've been using to the NilocG EI setup. I'll keep everyone posted.


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

Well, everyone, I'm back with some updates. First, I've been battling a ton of hair algae, so I ran a 5-day "blackout treatment" while I was away on a trip. The results were pretty good and the tank looks a lot better. But I think that my CO2 setup is probably not where it needs to be because my stems aren't growing like crazy, like I would expect. Though the Monte Carlo has been filling in pretty well. And I should also get some more plant mass in the tank, so I think that I am going to plant some more stems in the back. Here are some pictures:


























So I'm thinking of doing a few things. First, I think that I am going to try glass lily pipes again, but with a skimmer this time. I think that the shape of the lily pipe will help get the CO2 to diffuse better throughout the tank and the skimmer will also help with general gas exchange. Second, I am going to switch to an OASE Biomaster filter so that I can clean the pre-filter weekly without having to disassemble the entire filter. I wasn't cleaning the filter often (Eheim classic), which probably led to a lot of organics in the tank. In addition, I like the idea of having the heater built into the filter, which will reduce the plumbing under the stand, and will up my flow.

Third, frankly, I have to get off my butt and measure the pH drop when my CO2 kicks on, etc. I think that my CO2 tank is getting low, so should I wait to fill it before I run the test?


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

My daughter distracted me this morning, which caused me to pour my fertilizer from the wrong side of the dosing bottle! So I probably poured about two months of macros into the tank. I guess the only thing I can do is to do a series of water changes and then deal with the inevitable algae. Any thoughts are appreciated.


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## Ventchur (Apr 29, 2018)

Some things..

- Do you have a drop checker to check co2 level?
- Are your plants pearling?
- How is the flow in the tank?
- Any surface scum?
- What's your waterchange situation look like?
- Any snails?

I'd say focus on more waterchanges. When siphoning out, waft with the tube and your hand to free up any debris in the plants/hardscape. Trim the worst looking/decaying/algae ridden leaves. To me it looks like your light (twinstar?) is not strong enough. Monte carlo growing stringy/more vertical and your stem plants losing their lower leaves. A lot more stem plants in the back would help you, either by topping/replanting or buying more. I would move the srepens to the midground to free up more space for stems and plant some crypts around the wood in the empty shaded spots. Generally, if your plants are aggressively out-competing the algae for nutrients, it will be kept to a minimum.


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

Ventchur said:


> Some things..
> 
> - Do you have a drop checker to check co2 level?
> - Are your plants pearling?
> ...


Thank you for the detailed response! To answer your questions:

- No drop checker, but I am going to measure my KH and PH drop from CO2.
- The Monte Carlo pearls after a few hours into the light period. I don't really see much pearling from the stems in the back.
- Flow has been lower in the tank - only some sway from the Monte Carl in the front of the tank. I think that the stainless steel pipe has a narrow jet, so I do not see enough flow around the tank. I am going to move back to a glass lily pipe and thinking of moving it to the back of the tank. Thoughts?
- I do have surface scum and I am going to get a lily pipe with a skimmer to combat it.
- I'm consistent with 50% water changes every week. I drop my GH booster in on water change day, then follow alternating macro/micro every week (EI dosing). Should I do more changes for a while?
- I have three nerites a few amanos and a RCS colony.

As for light, I moved to an Aqua Work Orion, which is supposed to be much stronger than the Twinstar I had. I think the legginess in the stems and appearance of the Monte Carlo is from the five-day "blackout treatment" I just finished. They didn't look like that beforehand. I'm going to add some more stone to separate the back from the front on the right side and go much heavier on the stems.


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## Ventchur (Apr 29, 2018)

AcidGambit said:


> Thank you for the detailed response! To answer your questions:
> 
> - No drop checker, but I am going to measure my KH and PH drop from CO2.
> - The Monte Carlo pearls after a few hours into the light period. I don't really see much pearling from the stems in the back.
> ...


- For measuring co2 levels with ph I would reference this.. Great source of info and I just used the info+chart when I upgraded my regulator and changed to an atomizer diffuser.

https://www.advancedplantedtank.com/monitor-co2-level.html

- For flow I see your running a few items inline (co2, heater, temp prob). All of these combined might be too constrictive on your eheim 2213. I run the same filter and only run the hydor inline heater, flow isn't that great so sometime this year i'll upgrade to the 2215 which runs the same tubing size. You can also try shortening the length of tubing your setup runs? Less distance the water has to travel.

Try moving the outflow/inflow to a back corner and see how you like it. In my tank it really is much better and less of an eye sore but it might not work with your backlit effect. 

The rest is good, just figure out lighting/co2 and keep up with waterchanges.


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

Ventchur said:


> - For measuring co2 levels with ph I would reference this.. Great source of info and I just used the info+chart when I upgraded my regulator and changed to an atomizer diffuser.
> 
> https://www.advancedplantedtank.com/monitor-co2-level.html
> 
> ...


I am moving to an Oase Biomaster 250, with built in heater, which should cut down a lot on the in-line restrictions. I am also moving the temperature probe into the tank for the same reason.

Speaking of flow, I am going to move the inflow and outflow to the back of the tank. It looks like you have both inflow and outflow next to each other on the back of your tank. What do you think about separating them so that each one is in the opposing back corner? Any benefit for flow?


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

Ventchur's cube tank has been an inspiration to me, so I bit the bullet and broke my tank down. I spent about 5-6 hours today scrubbing rocks and moving to my new hardware. I went from an Eheim 2213 with a bunch of inline equipment to an Oase Biomaster Thermo 250, which has a built in heater. I also upgraded to a GLA aluminum CO2 diffuser. And, finally, I went back to a lily pipe, with a skimmer on the intake. The result is a lot less hardware and bends in my piping, and I think that I notice a lot more flow:










I also picked up an ATO, but I ran out of time to really set it up properly. The reservoir from advanced acrylics is pretty neat and hides away well:










It's hard to tell, but the main goal was to remove some of the complex wood branches and rocks from the back of the tank to give me more room for stems. I had a bear battling algae and I want more space for fauna to hide/breed. Now the design is basically rocks to divide between the stems and monte carlo in the front (the monte carlo got a big trim today). The rear stem portion is essentially divided in half (Rotala Rotundifolia Red on the left, Limnophila Aromatica on the right). I also crazy glued some Hygrophila Pinnatifida to the wood in the middle. This is what it looks like now (the Rotala isn't really standing up yet; I did plant it deep):










And here is the zoomed-out shot:










I'd really like to avoid growing pounds of algae per day again, so the plan is to go with daily water changes the first week, then water changes every other day the second week, then settle into the once per week water change consistent with EI dosing protocol.


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

I've been following my everyday water change regime and dropped five amanos into the tank to help with leftover algae. The Biomaster has been nice from a flow perspective, and the removable pre-filter was great given the amount of melt I am seeing (more on the Rotala Rotundifolia Red). I think the plants are starting to recover because I think that I am seeing some new growth.

Rotala Rotundifolia Red New Growth:









Limnophila Aromatica New Growth:


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## Ventchur (Apr 29, 2018)

Looking good and loving the upgrades man. Now comes the hard part of waiting for things to grow, good luck and keep us posted!


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

I'm seeing more new growth on almost all of the stems. So I guess that I should let them grow 5-6 inches then replant the tops, right?










I also managed to tune my surface skimmer (turning the insert to make it suck more through the bottom slits, lessening the suction through the skimmer), which has stopped the filter from burping through the day.


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

I took an Easter vacation, which meant leaving the tank alone for four days, when I was supposed to be doing water changes every other day. I came home to a decent amount of algae on the glass and more filamentous algae (the bane of my existence). I think that I am going to switch back to daily water changes for the week to try to get things back on track. How long should I wait until I trim the tops of my stems and replant? The bottom of them looks pretty grungy.


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

Any thoughts on the new growth and whether it is showing any deficiencies? I ask because I have a whole-home water softener. I add gH booster, but am I showing any deficiencies?


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## ipkiss (Aug 9, 2011)

Whoa. Something is still a little off. New growth seems acceptable but it also seems like you're having trouble sustaining the old growth long enough to allow you to multiply your plants. It's like plant purgatory. 

To attempt to answer your question, have you measured gh/kh recently? I'll tag @Seattle_Aquarist to chime in for more analysis. 

Other ideas: 

Did you ever measure that co2 properly? 


what's your micro regimen like? U mentioned uns liquids but not much details. Which bottles so that we may help with the amounts. Might be something to look into as well. My final "hump" of getting to happy growth required some attention to the micros. 

What's your lighting period? I feel (no science here  ) that it's a little too long for the current state of your tank. Theres been good arguments of late that strong light alone does not cause algae so I'll refrain from saying that straight out, but it was accepted that if your tank state is not optimal, it sure accelerates the algae mess and will easily turn a bad situation worse. So think about shortening, give the plants and yourself a little less stress while figuring out what's missing.

Also, the community of late is accepting to the idea that full ei + rich soil substrate + a smaller tank may be an overkill situation. Even if it's not the direct cause of your problems, it may not be helping. There's thoughts about one fertilizer obstructing the uptake of another. 

And finally, I threw all the ideas out as brainstorming. Might not want to enact all the changes at once!


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

ipkiss said:


> Whoa. Something is still a little off. New growth seems acceptable but it also seems like you're having trouble sustaining the old growth long enough to allow you to multiply your plants. It's like plant purgatory.
> 
> To attempt to answer your question, have you measured gh/kh recently? I'll tag @Seattle_Aquarist to chime in for more analysis.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the questions. I've been really tied up with work, so I never got to assemble my pH monitor. Hopefully that will happen this weekend. It is cranked up pretty high, with more than 10 bps. With my skimmer and the strong current from the new filter, I think that I can sustain pretty high injection.

The light period is current 6 hours. I have the light - Aqua Worx Orion 12" LED - set to about half intensity with a dimmer.

As far as gh/kh go, I'll run them tonight. But my tap water is typically kh=6 and gh=0 because it is softened. I add one teaspoon of GLA Ultimate GH Booster for each 50% water change, which should give me a gh=3, but I will double check tonight.

Is it strange that the new growth on my Rotala Rotundifolia Red is coming in bright green?

In addition, I moved on from the UNS fertilizer and I'm currently using Nilocg EI fertilizer - the pre-measured packets of dry fertilizer that I mixed with 500ml and I use with the provide dosing bottles.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi @AcidGambit,

Thank you @ipkiss.

AcidGambit I see you have been battling various issues for several months now and issues to continue to occur. A couple of things in all this posts have caught my eye.



> Any thoughts on the new growth and whether it is showing any deficiencies? I ask because I have a whole-home water softener. I add gH booster, but am I showing any deficiencies?





> As far as gh/kh go, I'll run them tonight. But my tap water is typically kh=6 and gh=0 because it is softened. I add one teaspoon of GLA Ultimate GH Booster for each 50% water change, which should give me a gh=3, but I will double check tonight.


I didn't see information on water parameters for your tap water or tank. Could you please supply the following for both your tap water and tank water?

pH - 

Tank pH after sitting 24 hours( remove water from tank, let sit 24 hours, take reading) -

dKH -

dGH -

nitrates (ppm of NO3) -

ammonia (NH3) (tank only) -

Also, where are you located and what is the name of your water utility - I will see if there is any water analysis information online.

If I read correctly you are running two (2) light fixtures? You also have the tank across the room from two large windows?

The issues can be resolved, most appear to be nutrient related. subscribed. -Roy


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

Thank you so much for offering to help. I feel like "The Wolf" (from Pulp Fiction) got called in to fix my problems. As you noticed, I've been battling issues since I started the tank back in September or so. AR mini completely disintegrates in under a week. I'm getting close to wanting to give up, so again, I really appreciate it.

As far as equipment goes, I'm running a single light now. It is a Aqua Worx Orion 12" https://buceplant.com/products/aqua-worx-orion-12-led-light. For what it's worth, there is some PAR value information available through the link, but I have not taken measurements in my tank to verify. Photoperiod is currently 6 hours, with the intensity set to 4/7 using a dimmer. You are correct that the tank is located across from two windows, however, they do not face the sun.

I am located in Bucks County, PA and my water utility is Newtown Artesian Water Company. I have a whole-home water softener that uses salt. It is plumbed to both the hot and cold water taps. Also, to the extent it matters, I do use some hot water for fills because the cold water is very cold during spring, fall, and winter.

Tap Water Parameters (not degassed for 24 hours; let me know if you need me to let the water sit for 24 hours)
pH: 6.9
dKH: 89.5ppm (5 drops)
dGH: 0ppm (0 drops)
Nitrates: 5-10ppm (hard for me to tell the difference between the two with the API test kit, but definitely lower than tank Nitrates)
Ammonia: 0ppm

Tank Water Parameters (after 24 hours)
pH: 7.1
dKH: 143.2ppm (8 drops)
dGH: 83.4ppm (5 drops)
Nitrates: 10-20ppm (hard for me to tell the difference between the two with API test kit)
Ammonia: 0ppm


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

ipkiss said:


> Whoa. Something is still a little off. New growth seems acceptable but it also seems like you're having trouble sustaining the old growth long enough to allow you to multiply your plants. It's like plant purgatory.


Thank you again for this observation. I noticed this first with my Monte Carlo, but thought that maybe the bottom was rotting because I wasn't trimming often enough. But with these new stems, it seems like the "older" new growth rots away, right under the newest growth.


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## ipkiss (Aug 9, 2011)

@AcidGambit, 

What's the difference in ph of the *tank *water from fully injected co2 to the same water degassed for 12 hours or more. 
OR, if you stop injecting at night, what's the ph of the tank water after a few hours of clearing out the co2? Basically, Just trying to figure out the ph drop from injection here. 

Also, I assume that when you say EI bottles, you're doing both macro AND micros?

Also also, I wouldn't gauge your tank success on AR.  @Greggz had trouble with it I think, and neither could I for a while, and a lot others. I could not grow neither AR mini nor regular AR. Finally AR variegated worked for me.



> Is it strange that the new growth on my Rotala Rotundifolia Red is coming in bright green?


I think this is one of those stems that come out green and have to be blasted with light and also grow healthy to turn red. Let's not worry about color yet. Let's focus on getting it healthy first.


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

ipkiss said:


> @AcidGambit,
> 
> What's the difference in ph of the *tank *water from fully injected co2 to the same water degassed for 12 hours or more.
> OR, if you stop injecting at night, what's the ph of the tank water after a few hours of clearing out the co2? Basically, Just trying to figure out the ph drop from injection here.
> ...


I just finished getting the reef-pi working, so I'm pulling a pH measurement every minute! I'll update the post after I pull two days worth of data.


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## Ventchur (Apr 29, 2018)

This is turning into a real CSI investigation lol


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi @AcidGambit, 

I've read through this thread twice now; and this is what I think I've learned.

The current set up has been set up since about 4/5. It is a 17 gallon tank which is about 15.75 X 15.75 X 15.75. Substrate is Tropica Aquarium Soil (powder). You have CO2 with a 5# tank and inline diffuser; pH drop 0.2 determined by de-gassing after 24 hours. Dosing NilocG.com EI and a NilocG.com Ultimate GH Booster, 1 tsp per water change. Light is currently a Aqua Worx Orion 12" set at 4/7 (estimate [email protected]).

Tap Water Parameters (not degassed for 24 hours; let me know if you need me to let the water sit for 24 hours)
pH: 6.9
dKH: 89.5ppm (5 drops)
dGH: 0ppm (0 drops)
Nitrates: 5-10ppm (hard for me to tell the difference between the two with the API test kit, but definitely lower than tank Nitrates)
Ammonia: 0ppm

Tank Water Parameters (after 24 hours)
pH: 7.1
dKH: 143.2ppm (8 drops)
dGH: 83.4ppm (5 drops)
Nitrates: 10-20ppm (hard for me to tell the difference between the two with API test kit)
Ammonia: 0ppm 

I suspected a water softener when you gave your dKH and dGH. There are two types of water softeners out there, ones that use potassium chloride and the more common ones that use sodium chloride (aka 'salt')....do you know which type you have? Your local water supplier has very little analysis online but Allentown / Milford Township gets their water from wells like your supplier and the hardness is 12 grains per gallon or about 12.4 dGH. If you have a hardness test kit you can check for yourself, most outdoor faucets are not connected to the water softener.

First, I don't have a water softener....in fact I am the exact opposite of you my tap water is very, very soft (<1.0 dKG / 2.0 dGH). Possibly one of the other forum members that has a water softener will chime in and provide some input as well. Most water softeners use either sodium chloride or potassium chloride as the softening agent, both can cause issues with planted tanks. The water softener replaces the calcium and magnesium ions in the local water with either sodium or potassium causing an excess of either sodium or potassium in the water. Do you know which chemical is used in your water softener?


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Hi @AcidGambit,
> 
> I've read through this thread twice now; and this is what I think I've learned.
> 
> ...


Yes, it uses salt. I'm still collecting pH data using my reef-pi setup, but it looks like I am getting plenty of pH drop with CO2 injection - about a 1.3 pH drop.










For reference, CO2 injection starts at 2PM and lights come on at 4PM.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi @AcidGambit,

Based upon the graph above, you should have plenty of CO2 in your tank. In fact, it may be a little too much for sensitive fish. I try to target about a drop of 1.0 pH with the CO2 in my tanks.....sometimes a little less.

I found this for the Allentown water supply. They also have well water as their water source as does you water utility.










The water is considered hard but it has good Ca:Mg proportions. I suspect that the salt used in your water softener, and all that additional sodium (Na) in the sodium chloride/salt is effecting the uptake of potassium which in turn is effecting the calcium and magnesium uptake. 

Mulder's Chart of Nutrient Interactions









Do me a favor, seldom are the outside faucets of a home connected to the water softener. Could you check the water parameters of some water from your faucet please?


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Hi @AcidGambit,
> 
> Based upon the graph above, you should have plenty of CO2 in your tank. In fact, it may be a little too much for sensitive fish. I try to target about a drop of 1.0 pH with the CO2 in my tanks.....sometimes a little less.
> 
> ...


Thank you for digging into this. My outside faucets are connected to the water softener, but I had a sprinkler system installed last year that bypasses the water softener. I have to travel for work, but I should be able to get the parameters in a few days.

As for CO2, I'm glad to hear that I have more than enough injection. I only have amanos in the tank right now, and they don't seem to have an issue.


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

Ventchur said:


> This is turning into a real CSI investigation lol


It looks like the water softener might be hard on his plants...

YYYEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAH!


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

I was able to collect some water out of my sprinkler heads this morning. I'm sure that I looked ridiculous to my neighbors.

pH: 7.5
dKH: 89.5ppm (5 drops)
dGH: 179ppm (10 drops)
Nitrates: 5-10ppm (hard for me to tell the difference between the two with the API test kit, but definitely lower than tank Nitrates)
Ammonia: 0ppm


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi @AcidGambit,

lol, it wouldn't be the first time my neighbors thought I was ridiculous!

Actually your tap water (without water softener) isn't that bad......I have seen substantially worse. Your next water change do 50% using 75% tap water and 25% water softener water as the replacement water. Do not add any Seachem Equilibrium. Keep your photoperiod, light intensity, and nutrient dosing the same (except Equilibrium). Let's see how the plants respond over the next two weeks. Do monitor your nitrate level in the tank, if it gets above 40 ppm send me a pm. 

I will be at the AGA Convention for the next several days, until Sunday (one whole day of plant auction!) and will be on the forums infrequently. I'll try and post some pictures and / or short videos.


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Hi @AcidGambit,
> 
> lol, it wouldn't be the first time my neighbors thought I was ridiculous!
> 
> ...


Unfortunately, the only bypass that I have is for the sprinkler system. I literally had to stand outside with a cup over one of my sprinkler heads to collect it. So it looks like I am going to go the RO route. Believe it or not, it will actually be easier for me to split off a connection for a RO system and build a mixing station in my basement. I'll likely add in a drain direct to my sump pump for emptying tank water, so it should make maintenance even easier than a Python!

Would you be able to help me out with a method for remineralizing RO when I start? I just found out that UNS is going to release a bigger, 25-gallon cube tank in June, so that is when I am going to start over.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

AcidGambit said:


> Unfortunately, the only bypass that I have is for the sprinkler system. I literally had to stand outside with a cup over one of my sprinkler heads to collect it. So it looks like I am going to go the RO route. Believe it or not, it will actually be easier for me to split off a connection for a RO system and build a mixing station in my basement. I'll likely add in a drain direct to my sump pump for emptying tank water, so it should make maintenance even easier than a Python!
> 
> Would you be able to help me out with a method for remineralizing RO when I start? I just found out that UNS is going to release a bigger, 25-gallon cube tank in June, so that is when I am going to start over.


Hi @AcidGambit,

I can just picture you outside filling a cup from the sprinkler head.....roflmao!!

Your right, RO/DI may be a better choice. I don't have RO/DI and I'm sure there some here on TPT with more experience remineralizing RO/DI. I will continue to monitor what is happening if you would like. -Roy


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Hi @AcidGambit,
> 
> I can just picture you outside filling a cup from the sprinkler head.....roflmao!!
> 
> Your right, RO/DI may be a better choice. I don't have RO/DI and I'm sure there some here on TPT with more experience remineralizing RO/DI. I will continue to monitor what is happening if you would like. -Roy


I would appreciate that, and I appreciate all of your help.


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## ipkiss (Aug 9, 2011)

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Hi @AcidGambit,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Haha. Bucket brigade from the sprinkler every water change. 
@Greggz, your ro remineralizing expertise is requested!


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

I currently use the GLA GH Booster for boosting GH (The Ultimate GH Booster - Aquarium Fertilizer| GLA Dry Ferts). Should I just use Potassium Carbonate or Potassium Bicarbonate to boost the kH to 1 or 2? What GH should I target (I'll likely have some form of shrimp in the new tank - definitely amanos)?


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

Hey all, I am shutting down this cube tank, building a mixing/water change station, and considering a different tank for the same location. I'm soliciting advice on which tank to choose if you're interested:

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/9-equipment/1292803-help-choosing-tank-size.html#post11214211


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## AcidGambit (Aug 30, 2018)

Hey all, I won't be posting to this thread anymore, but I wanted to let you know that I'm starting a journal for my new tank.

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/12-tank-journals/1293107-shore-summit-my-21-long-uns-90l.html


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