# What is the best in your opinion.....



## Opiesilver (Nov 3, 2003)

Hey all,

I want to know what lighting system and/or retro-fit kit is the absolute best in your opinion. What are the pros and cons of your pick.

Thanks in advance!!!!! roud:


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## malkore (Nov 3, 2003)

Depends on the size of tank, plants being kept, and if CO2 is being injected.
You don't give any specifics, so all I can say is the ahsupply.com kits are real nice.


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## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

For a straight, store bought power compact lighting fixture, I like the Coralife Aqualights.

The fixtures are solid and well built, come in a variety of sizes, and almost all of the double bulb fixtures are cooled with a very quiet fan. Quite inexpensive legs can be purchased separately for the Coralife Aqualights. 

The new series of Aqualights also feature a built in moonlight. These lights appear to be of the same quality as the regular Aqualights, yet they feature the built in moonlight. The only drawback to them I see is that the moonlight is "always on". There is no separate switch to shut off the moonlight. The plants and fish will never experience complete darkness.

JBJ also makes a nice power compact fixture. The fixtures are less expensive than the Coralifes, and they are not as well built as the Coralifes. The JBJ fixture itself is lighter, and the fans are a bit noisier, however the fixture's stands, which are also purchased separately are superior to those of the Coralife. The legs have a flip feature which allows the entire fixture to be flipped up, making for excellent access to the aquarium.

Either fixture would do in my opinion, the Coralifes are just a bit more well built, but the JBJs are a bit less expensive.

Mike


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Store bought wise, I prefer either Coralife or Hamilton (both power compacts). I have both of them and if I didn't know better, they were built to resemble each other from the ground up. I've used Hamiltons for the last 7 years and they've held up really well. I've used both models where dual bulbs were on one single switch versus on others with two. The ones with separate switches for each bulb is definitely nicer and allows for more customization of the lighting cycles.

As for retro-fits, I would say ahsupply's kit is definitely a contender (very nice reflectors). Hamilton makes very nice retro-fit kits also, but at a hefty premium. For the price and money, I would opt out for a kit from ahsupply.

As for JBJ, I would rank this brand behind the other three. It's much less expensive if you're looking for a plug and play setup, but the build quality is lacking. I've seen/heard more complaints and returns from this brand than either Coralife or Hamilton.

By order of rank: (1) ahsupply, (2) Hamilton, (3) Coralife, (4) JBJ. I ranked ahsupply over Hamilton due to its higher availability (Hamiltons are only available to distributors and then resold), costs (lower), and overall sturdy build quality (similar).

BTW, all the above fixtures were used without their legs if any, so I can't comment on that aspect.


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## corigan (Feb 22, 2004)

I have limited experience with FW lighting so here are my opinions from my little bit of experience. I own 2 Coralife aqualight fixtures and both are great. They are the real cheapy models (no fans) and I have no problems with them burning out due to overheating. Been running one (2x65w) for 7 months with no issues. I have a 2x65w and a 1x96w. One is over an open-top and the other is over a glass canopy. I used to lay the 2x65 on top of the tank with no legs and found that it didn't get as decent of lighting spread as it should. Once I added the legs I got much better lighting spread in the aquarium. So IMHO legs are a must with every coralife aqualight fixture. It would be pretty cool to have those flip legs though like mentioned on the formosa fixtures.

As far as retrofits go I also have very limited experience. I have a 2x13w ahsupply retrofit kit over a 10g and am very pleased with it. I got this from a previous owner and my only complaint is that it doesn't have one of those awesome ahsupply reflectors with it. I am going to need to build myself a new housing so I can get one of those great reflectors to go with it.

Overall I am extremely pleased with the Coralife Aqualight Fixtures and the AHSupply retrofit kit, and would have zero problems purchasing either product for upcoming tanks/projects. I would lean more towards the retrofit kits though since they have such great reflectors. Of course quite a bit more time is put into a retrofit kit, and sometimes it's just more convient to get a product that you can take out of the box and plug in.

Matt


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## Opiesilver (Nov 3, 2003)

Malkore,

It was of a general question to get your opinions. I have several of the JBJ fixtures and think that they are of questionable quality. The fans on mine burnt out in the first couple of months and I have seen a lot of cracked housings. I'm thinking of going with a new setup and just wanted everyones opinion.


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## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

I have no issues with the quality of my JBJ fixture. It runs fine and does its job. I like the Coralife, but have never had a problem with my JBJ.

Mike


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## anonapersona (Oct 19, 2002)

*PetSupplyLiquidators*

I have a custom light from Pet Supply Liquidators.com that is great. Lightweight and sleek, two built-in fans and 4 x55 watts on two power switches. A slightly shorter version of their Solar Lights to fit my odd sized tank, but even though it was custom, they charged me less than the next sized regular fixture. 

For retrofits, I have AHSupply lights. They are really helpful if you need to call them.


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## Opiesilver (Nov 3, 2003)

Anyone tried IceCaps and URI VHO bulbs?


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Icecaps (e.g. they make great ballasts) and URI are very nice, if you're into VHOs.

VHO applications aren't as widely used nowadays as they used to be (very rarely in freshwater). That's due to a variety of factors, such as price and heat issues. The bulbs are a bit more expensive than PCs and they are hotter running.

VHOs are still used in reefkeeping however, and seems like they'll continue to stay in that application. The upside to VHOs is their intensity (higher than PCs).


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## zapus (May 26, 2004)

Icecap ballasts can also be used to overdrive NO tubes, but they do get quite warm.


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## Jackfrost (Jan 8, 2005)

Opiesilver said:


> Malkore,
> 
> It was of a general question to get your opinions. I have several of the JBJ fixtures and think that they are of questionable quality. The fans on mine burnt out in the first couple of months and I have seen a lot of cracked housings. I'm thinking of going with a new setup and just wanted everyones opinion.


So, are the corallife better ?

I do not want to invest in AH supply, but if the JBJ are the "El-chepo" Chineese slave labor camp quality, as you state, how do the coralifes compare ? 

The other issue is that it seems that most fixtures come with Actinic bulbs. The only company I see that has their fixtures come with plant lamps is coralife. Are there any others ?

Thanks

Nick


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## FISA (Dec 3, 2004)

I got a JBJ fermosa fixture 260w 48" that I bought from you opie...and I like it so far.....
except...I hope the fan on it burn out like yours....could use a lil quieter unit :tongue: Now you tell me about the fans...just kidding....


I also have a coral life fixture......great fixtures too


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## BlueRam (Sep 21, 2004)

Opiesilver said:


> Anyone tried IceCaps and URI VHO bulbs?


You might ask Silent Running how he likes his. I believe they are IceCaps and GE NO's.


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## Jackfrost (Jan 8, 2005)

FISA said:


> I got a JBJ fermosa fixture 260w 48" that I bought from you opie...and I like it so far.....
> except...I hope the fan on it burn out like yours....could use a lil quieter unit :tongue: Now you tell me about the fans...just kidding....
> 
> 
> I also have a coral life fixture......great fixtures too


Thats funny !!  

Opie says how much he hates them and now he sells them !!   

Did the JBJ you got have the actinic lamp in it or did you get two planted tank lights ?

Thanks

Nick


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## m.lemay (Jul 28, 2002)

Opiesilver said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I want to know what lighting system and/or retro-fit kit is the absolute best in your opinion. What are the pros and cons of your pick.
> 
> Thanks in advance!!!!! roud:


You can't go wrong with Ahsupply. Best bang for the buck if you ask me, and the reflectors are second to none.

Marcel


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## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

> but if the JBJ are the "El-chepo" Chineese slave labor camp quality, as you state, how do the coralifes compare ?


JBJs are far from the description you have suggested. They are good fixtures and compare pretty well with the Coralifes. The difference being fan noise, which I really tend not to notice.

Mike


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## Opiesilver (Nov 3, 2003)

I don't hate the fixtures at all. I have 6 of them in my house after all. I was asking about the Icecaps because I have a 6ft and a 7ft tank that I need to provide really strong lighting on and JBJs are only made to fit up to a 4ft tank. I can use Icecaps and 6ft T-5s from URI on my bigger tanks.


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## Jackfrost (Jan 8, 2005)

Opiesilver said:


> I don't hate the fixtures at all. I have 6 of them in my house after all. I was asking about the Icecaps because I have a 6ft and a 7ft tank that I need to provide really strong lighting on and JBJs are only made to fit up to a 4ft tank. I can use Icecaps and 6ft T-5s from URI on my bigger tanks.


Your statements seem to contradict your own words. 

Your own words: 

"I have several of the JBJ fixtures and think that they are of questionable quality. The fans on mine burnt out in the first couple of months and I have seen a lot of cracked housings. "

What interesting is that YOU are the only one I found that spoke negatively about them.

Everyone else had good statements. With the exception of the noise level for which there seems to be an easy way to address.

Would you care explaining your previous comments ? :icon_roll
Was the statement reffering to earlier versions of the fixture ?


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## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

Actually, the earlier JBJ fixtures were of questionable construction. They had tons of problems and were always being returned to the LFSs.

However, JBJ has revamped the units, increased quality control and gotten themselves UL listed and the product has improved greatly.

By the way fellas, keep this civil! I smell smoke, and where there is smoke there is often FLAME!  

Mike


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## Jackfrost (Jan 8, 2005)

Mike

You always smell smoke ! I swear that you must burn too many candles around your house ! (Maybe one your Eheim pumps is stuck !!  )

I think Del runs a great outfit and I highly recomend him to all.

I just want to understand what the issues where for the statements he made.

If it was the intial production run, then it make alot of sense, and explains his comments.

As I said before, HIS where the only negative comments I found, and no explaination was given as to the cause or the corrective action.

From what you state, it appears that that was the case.


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## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

> You always smell smoke ! I swear that you must burn too many candles around your house !


I am a moderator, that is part of the job! No candles here either, bro! I don't go for that kind of thing.



> (Maybe one your Eheim pumps is stuck !! )


Think about what you just posted. It is an EHEIM. Eheims don't get stuck!

Just want to be sure things stay nice and friendly like!  

Mike


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## Opiesilver (Nov 3, 2003)

Momotaro said:


> Actually, the earlier JBJ fixtures were of questionable construction. They had tons of problems and were always being returned to the LFSs.
> 
> However, JBJ has revamped the units, increased quality control and gotten themselves UL listed and the product has improved greatly.
> 
> ...


Mike is right. JBJ did do a lot to improve their quality over the last couple of years. The fans are quieter and the plastic end caps are made of thicker plastic now. I see every unit before it's shipped and I used to have to replace a lot of the plastic pieces before they shipped out from us. It's not the case anymore. I haven't had to replace any parts on the new units in about 6 months now.

Jack, I made that statement 6 months ago. There has been a lot of improvements made in their product lines. Two years ago we stopped selling their nano cubes but notice we are selling them again? Why? Simple, they really improved their product and I'd be happy to own one myself now. (And I will as soon as they arrive.)


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Well, since no one has broken the ice, how about the TEK T5 fixtures. They have the reflector quality of AH Supply and are well made by Sunlight Supply. I like the idea of laying the T5s in DIY, but wish I wouldn't have to build the enclosure. Otherwise I vote for AH. The reflectors in AH, TEK, or Ice Cap's T5s put out a whole lot more light (maye 30 to 50% more) than the JBJ or Coralife PCs. This puts them at the top of the heap in my opinion... bob


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## FISA (Dec 3, 2004)

Jackfrost said:


> Thats funny !!
> 
> Opie says how much he hates them and now he sells them !!
> 
> ...



nah...I dont have it with actinic...all four bulbs on my JBJ are 10,000K...and to be honest....so far I love the quality roud: ....a big rebound from the older units from what i have heard about older JBJ fixtures...

the coral life are on a different tank...which are in combination with the GE...I love the coral life too...btw those are 6700Ks


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## FISA (Dec 3, 2004)

> Jack, I made that statement 6 months ago. There has been a lot of improvements made in their product lines. Two years ago we stopped selling their nano cubes but notice we are selling them again? Why? Simple, they really improved their product and I'd be happy to own one myself now. (And I will as soon as they arrive.)



Hey Opie..

Whooooppssy :tongue: I didnt realize that this topic was pulled from 6 months ago.... hehhehhhe


I have been by far satisfied everything I have ordered from Mark....especially the price :icon_bigg 

at first i was really leary of ordering a JBJ unit...hmm...i cant remember how long back i ordered those....possible end of november...and so far pretty good results....

The fans? I hear they are the same with other units ( correct me if im wrong)

due to the fan ...they provide a 3 year warranty on the ballast  so i guess you can consider that a trade off...

take care all...


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## e.lark (Feb 2, 2005)

I dont see too many people using metal halide lighting. actually Ive only seen one on a large tank. Heat issue, too much unfiltered light? I like the look of a pendant over a fixture and for mere looks only I like the Aqua Spacelight.


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## Gill Man (Feb 5, 2005)

I just made the switch to HQI pendants last Friday for my 90 gallon tank. My AH supply CF retrofit kit in my canopy didn't give me the flexilibilty I wanted. Now with the lid removed from my canopy (I left just the rim) and the pendants 6 inches above the water level, my heat issues are a lot less than they were with the CF retro mounted in my canopy. I still run a small fan but nothing like it was before. I don't know what is meant by MH being "unfiltered," my pendants have a UV shieilded glass cover, I can't imagine MH fixtures being sold without one. I thought it might be too much light in the tank but at 150W each, it's not at all. I like them so much I would use these in future set-ups in a heartbeat.


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## e.lark (Feb 2, 2005)

> I don't know what is meant by MH being "unfiltered," my pendants have a UV shieilded glass cover, I can't imagine MH fixtures being sold without one


I meant that its not diffused like I would consider flourescent, more direct.
I dont have a UV shield on my pendant, nor do the bell shaped ones ...I think.
why would you need the UV shield, protection while working under the light?


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Yep, protection from skin cancer, blindness etc.


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## Jackfrost (Jan 8, 2005)

Opiesilver said:


> Mike is right. JBJ did do a lot to improve their quality over the last couple of years. The fans are quieter and the plastic end caps are made of thicker plastic now. I see every unit before it's shipped and I used to have to replace a lot of the plastic pieces before they shipped out from us. It's not the case anymore. I haven't had to replace any parts on the new units in about 6 months now.
> 
> Jack, I made that statement 6 months ago. There has been a lot of improvements made in their product lines. Two years ago we stopped selling their nano cubes but notice we are selling them again? Why? Simple, they really improved their product and I'd be happy to own one myself now. (And I will as soon as they arrive.)


So Del

I can order these off the website and just specify the bulb type or do they come pre selected ?

Thanks

Nick


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## gnatster (Mar 12, 2004)

> I dont have a UV shield on my pendant, nor do the bell shaped ones ...I think.
> why would you need the UV shield, protection while working under the light?


MH comes in 2 basic bulb flavors, Singled End (SE) or Double End (DE) also called HQI. All SE bulbs have UV filtering quartz sleeves so they do not require the additional glass sheild. DE bulbs are not sheilded and require the glass sheild, not only for your protection, but for the bait too.

Very happy with my Aquamedic Aquaspacelight.


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## Opiesilver (Nov 3, 2003)

Yes, and it's all up to you on what you want in bulbs. On the checkout page there is a comment box toward the bottom. Just make a note of your selection there.


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## Opiesilver (Nov 3, 2003)

gnatster said:


> MH comes in 2 basic bulb flavors, Singled End (SE) or Double End (DE) also called HQI. All SE bulbs have UV filtering quartz sleeves so they do not require the additional glass sheild. DE bulbs are not sheilded and require the glass sheild, not only for your protection, but for the bait too.
> 
> Very happy with my Aquamedic Aquaspacelight.


Which one is the screw in one?


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## gnatster (Mar 12, 2004)

> Which one is the screw in one?


Single Ended also known in some circles as a Mogul base


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## glass-gardens.com (Apr 14, 2004)

Single ended bulbs are generally mogul base (screw in), in fact I've never seen any that weren't, but hey.


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## gnatster (Mar 12, 2004)

Phillips makes a line branded Colormaster that are not Mogul Base but plug in on one end. That is the ONLY single ended MH that I have ever seen, not that I have seen them all, but have seen my share.


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## glass-gardens.com (Apr 14, 2004)

I've been considering this new fixture from Marine Depot for a 30 cube to replace the CFs I'm using now:

http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium_lighting_metal_halide_icecap_spotlight_pendant.asp?CartId=

I currently have 130 watts watts total, but in reality, it's a bit too much, I'm thinking the 70 watt option would be sufficient with a 6500K bulb.


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## gnatster (Mar 12, 2004)

Within the past few months ther was a detailed review on ReefCentral in the ReefKeepers Mag of that light fixture.


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## glass-gardens.com (Apr 14, 2004)

Could you give us a brief run down or link?

What do you think of it for that matter?

It's my understanding that the basic WPG rule doesn't really apply to MH lighting and I'm thinking the 70, since it's a spot more or less will be more concentrated and should work well for the 30.


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## Gomer (Aug 14, 2003)

My AH kits are the ultimate for the handy to slightly handy person IMO. Have 3 kits and love them.

I recently got a Tek Lights T5HO setup. really well built, looks slick, and bright as hell!!! I can't wait to get it setup (waiting for my custom tank/stand). 

Tek lights are quite expensive per watt on small fixture lenghts, but at 4ft's, they get IMO quite reasonable. 2ft setups are nearly as expensive.


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## gnatster (Mar 12, 2004)

Its not ReefKeeping but Advanced Aquarist. 

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/index/

Volume III, Issue 9 (September 2004)

IceCap / 150 HQI


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## eums (Sep 16, 2004)

MH lights

DE bulbs (come in 70, 150, 250 and 400 watts) are quartz ONLY no glass uv shield, they are double ended bulbs. 
they give off alittle more light due to a smaller bulb (it can be mounted closer to the reflector, less restrike) and have a better designed reflector that takes up less space than a SE bulbs reflector. pendants normaly have a thickish tempered UV shield. more so than SE bulbs.

SE bulbs (come in 50,70,175,250,400, and 1000 watts) they are basicly a DE bulb in a glass(tempered) enclosure with a screw in (mogol) base. Reflectors are larger due to the bulb being 2-3x the size. IE a de pendant can be 6"x9"x4" high where a SE reflector that will offer the same amount of light directed back into the tank will be 24"x24"x8".

then you have mag vs electronig bulbs. 

magnetic ballast
pros- cheap, well built, will last a long time, runs bulb a little brighter
cons- run HOT, 10-15% power loss into heat, big, can cause distort electronics easly is mounted close to it. runs bulb a little more yellower

electric ballast 
pros- small, light, quieter, runs colder, uses less power, runs bulb a little bluer(remove some yellow cast) bulbs last alittle longer
cons- cost more, runs bulb a little dimmer(5% or so) 

now on bulbs, DE bulbs will last a little longer than SE (running at a higher temp and actually inspec)
keep inmind metalhalide bulbs like running hot, if there not running hot the life span can be shortened, you don't want fans blowing on the bulbs. 

also light intensity(par) can change greatly from one bulb company to another(same bulb class, ie 10000k DE bulb made by ushio is not going to be the same as one made by BLV, or hamilton or any other company)

halides do look the best though, once you see them on a tank you will want them !

but i like t5's for low heat, low power and long bulb life.


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## glass-gardens.com (Apr 14, 2004)

So what do you think of that Icecap Pendant, the bulbs have an internal relector so the pendant itself is about as small as a DE and appears to just house the socket and bulb with no reflector of it's own.

And you 70 watts be sufficient for the 30?


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## gnatster (Mar 12, 2004)

> So what do you think of that Icecap Pendant, the bulbs have an internal relector so the pendant itself is about as small as a DE and appears to just house the socket and bulb with no reflector of it's own.


I've never used or even seen that pendant. I do have experience with IceCap products and have found to be of good quality with a responsive management team that responds to issues in a timely manner. Intial costs are higher then a more tradtional MH setup but over the long run it tends to even out or even save money in reduced electric costs, lower heat generation and longer bulb life.



> And you 70 watts be sufficient for the 30?


In most cases yes, ultimatly depends on plant selection and placement. 

Keep in mind that MH being a point source light has a different radiant pattern then FL type bulbs. If you delve into the archives of Advanced Aquarist you will find many articles with pretty, yet useful, charts and graphs comparing multiple aspects of lighting, incl but not limited to, light spread by refelctor design, PAR values for many popular Reef bulbs, the effects various ballasts have on lighting quality and many others. Thanks to the efforts of Dr Sanjay Joshe and others the once mysterious aspect of lighting has been largely iluminated. 

I think a very interesting experiment woould be to obtain 2 30gal cubes sharing a common sump, keeping all perameters identical with the only difference one being lit with MH and the other with similar wattage in FL and complaring the results over time. My hypothisis states the MH lit tank will see faster growth with shorter internodes and an overall hard to quantify greater "health and vibrance" the the FL lit tank. Donations accepeted to design, build and run this study.


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