# Invertz Factory: The rack(updated 10/12/07)



## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

I have been working on these racks for quite sometime with help of Nikolay, Nathan and others. I have decided its time to share it with others. I will go through materials as much as I can and why I did it this way and not some other way. Hope to see questions, comments, etc.


So I got interested in shrimp at the beginning, then the snails came and then the crayfish. So I decided to turn my house study into an invert room. 

To have a taste of it, I bought a 75G tank and two 10g tanks to try it out.
The three of these tanks are part of the setup. The 75G tank might be taken down soon, but not sure. First shrimp were cherries, then tigers, and CRS. From the crays I have had the orange dwarf ones and the orange-brown.

The idea of the rack came on a couple of converstaions with Nikolay and Nathan. Until I decided to go ahead with the idea.


Cheers,
Pedro


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

*The rack*

The next step was to find some tanks that will fit in the dimensions of the shelves. This was really hard. I wanted to have multiple tanks per shelf and I wanted them to be as deep as the shelve and not too high. This way I would have more area in the tank which is what I wanted.

I found someone to do the tanks for me. Since the tanks were custom made I went with rimless tanks. They measure roughly 22"W X 18"D X 14"H. I ordered a total of 14 tanks.

Here is a picture of the tanks in the garage:










Close up of one of the tanks:










-Pedro


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

*Equipment & rack assembly*

For equipment I went with sponge filters, 100W heaters, one dolphin pump for one of the racks, a couple of old pumps for the other, shop lights, natural gravel and some garnet gravel Nikolay gave me which is kind purplish in color.

The rack assembly was pretty easy. To put the tanks in the shelves we decided to go with a piece of insulation styrofoam cut to the size of the shelves like in the picture below:










I started putting the tanks in the shelves:










After putting tanks in one rack. I filled two of them to see if there was any bowing at all. I saw the shelve bowing and the tanks almost touching each other on the sides.

Nathan gave us the idea of using some plywood below the insulation material so it would not bow. We tried this and it still bow but a little less. 

So Nikolay and I brainstorm through some ideas and he came with the idea of using a metal rod(pipe) to push the shelve up. So we drill a whole in the middle of all the plywoods and insulation boards. Then the pipe was cut to the desire size and trimed so it will fit.










This is how it looks from underneath:





























This helped a lot and solved 99% of the bowing issues.


-Pedro


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

*Setting the tanks...more stuff*

Here are some pictures of when I was setting up the tanks. You can see the type of sponge filters, heater and gravel that I used in most of the tanks.


This rack currently has 6 rimless tanks:











This one has 4 rimless tanks and the two 10G tanks:











There is some reflectiosn in the pictures, but they are the only ones that show them while setting them up.

-Pedro


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

*Some shot of the tanks and the final racks*

Here are some close up pictures of the tanks:



















Here I am testing a computer fan for when the weather gets hot. It will lower the water temp in one tank 5F. It does evaporate water faster, but not that bad if you do weekly water changes.










The final Racks look like thiswill update them with better pictures later)



















All in all, I have 12 tanks in the racks and the 75G tank beside them


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

*More information*

All tanks have moss in them, different types of moss. All have gravel, most of them heaters and all of them have sponge filters. I do weekly water changes. 
I keep snails in all tanks.

SOme problems I have encountered or might encounter:

1. humidity: With so much water evaporating I was having humidity problems in the room. I bought a dehumidifier and problem solved.

2. Water changes: You can imagine that doing water changes takes some time with so many tanks. I only change 20% of the water in each tank. I reconstitute my water from RO water to the desire level and ph by using seachem equilibrium and tap water. It is not very easy, but I have some inverts that need aicid water while others need hard water. To change the water I use a bucket, water pump for a fountain, a python hose. I usually divide the water changes in two days. One for the ones with acidi water and the other for the ones with hard water.

2. Noise: There is some noise out of the pumps and the dehumidifer. It is barely noticeable. I close the study at night. Make sure to buy an air pump that does not make lots of noise. I recommend the Dolphin and it can be found at Kens Fish Home of Quality Fish Food, And Supplies At Excellent Prices.


Where to buy the things:

1. shop lights,plywood,foam,pipe,etc: Home depot, Lowe's
2. filters, pumps, heaters: Kens Fish Home of Quality Fish Food, And Supplies At Excellent Prices.
3. racks: Costco or do a search online for chrome wire racks

During this I found out that a Dremmel is a very good tool to have.

I hope to see people comments and questions. I will also later update the thread or create a separate one with some of the inverts I have in there.

-Pedro


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## guitardude9187 (Aug 22, 2006)

great write up, i'm planning to setting up the same thing in about a month or two. Do you think it'll work with smaller tanks instead, i'm thinking about 2.5g's and 5g's and maybe one or two 10g. How do you think the inverts would do in the smallers tanks?

if you don't mind also, may i ask, How much did you spend altogether? I was think it'll most likely run around 200 to setup and another 100-50 for the inverts and plants


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## sandiegoryu (Feb 15, 2006)

Thats a great rack you got there! Of course, this is my first time seeing an invert rack so I can't say anything, but your are living my dream! Someday... when I get a job...

As for the rack for guitardude, I don't recommend 2.5g's for a rack. It is hard to maintain water quality in a smaller tank, and lots of 2.5g's may be hard to maintain in terms of water quality. I've read that 5g's can be a nice size for shrimp, so maybe. And I don;t think 300-250$ is gonna pay for everything. Depends on what you want I guess.


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## joejoeg (Jan 11, 2007)

sorry to disapoint you but 200 dollars for supplies is not to likely, unless you alreayd have tanks and filters and such? but i work at the lps and a 5 gal with run you around 10 dollars each , a 2.5 is roughly 8 bucks , a 10 is 12 bucks. air pumps are arnt 20 for a dual port ( which would do one rack with 2 tanks) decor is youre own thing. heaters on average ( for a good one) are around 30 dollars. and inverts can get costly, we sell electric blue ''lobsters'' for 16.99 and blue yabbies for 9.99. we get amano shrimp for 2.99 each and ON A VERY RARE OCCASION we do get cherry and tiger for 3.99 each.




hope this gives you some idea:biggrin: 

jordan


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## mr.sandman (Nov 7, 2006)

Whoever made those tanks did a really good job with the silicone.


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## guitardude9187 (Aug 22, 2006)

there's people around here that once in a while sells these tank (used) for alot cheaper then that,3-5 each from 2.5gals and up to 10gals, from fish breeders or stores closings. I've seen a few of these sales go on before, so i'll just have to keep an eye out, while i'll save up for the build.

spondge filters can be made rather easy and cheap, i already have couple of air pumps that aren't in use. heaters, is maybe the only thing i'm concerned about, you're right those can run alot...

As for the selves, I work at home depot and we have these metal selves that can hold up to 4000lbs that runs for about 80 bucks. lighting, I'll still have to check those out. As for the inverts, i'm definetly getting them from people from this forum and other places, not the lps. All these are going in the basement, so show quality isn't a must either. I agree with you tough, it'll end up costing more in someway in the end, it always does.

Thanks for the Input,
Chuong


Those tanks are really well madeand great malalic, Those tanks make me want a rimless even more now.


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## Color Me Blue (Nov 10, 2005)

Very nice setup! Quite the invert factory you got going there Milalic! You ordered 14 tanks...are you planning on setting up another rack of tanks?


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## whitepine (Apr 13, 2004)

Looks great....I have a similar setupfor shrimp and small fish. You can ussually fit 10g the narrow way on those shelves and squeze 3 of them on one shelve. A 20 long or 29 high also will fit nicely. I like the 10g though. You can then squeeze 9 to 12 tanks on a rack(I get the racks at HD). I ussually leave the bottom shelve for storage(so its only 9 tanks on the rack)... I hate having to bend over to work on the lowest tanks. also make sure you leave enough room between the shelves and the tanks to work on them. 

Cheers, Whitepine


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

Pedro,

Who made the tanks for you? Do they not want more business?


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

guitardude9187 said:


> great write up, i'm planning to setting up the same thing in about a month or two. Do you think it'll work with smaller tanks instead, i'm thinking about 2.5g's and 5g's and maybe one or two 10g. How do you think the inverts would do in the smallers tanks?
> 
> if you don't mind also, may i ask, How much did you spend altogether? I was think it'll most likely run around 200 to setup and another 100-50 for the inverts and plants


Buying inverts for the racks is going to be more than $200.00 by itself.


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

guitardude9187 said:


> there's people around here that once in a while sells these tank (used) for alot cheaper then that,3-5 each from 2.5gals and up to 10gals, from fish breeders or stores closings. I've seen a few of these sales go on before, so i'll just have to keep an eye out, while i'll save up for the build.
> 
> spondge filters can be made rather easy and cheap, i already have couple of air pumps that aren't in use. heaters, is maybe the only thing i'm concerned about, you're right those can run alot...
> 
> ...


That is a good deal if they are shelved like these that I have and can hold up to 4000lbs. If they are the gorilla rack which have the wooden piece in the middle, you will have problems with bowing. You will need to figure out how to fix it.

-Pedro


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

Color Me Blue said:


> Very nice setup! Quite the invert factory you got going there Milalic! You ordered 14 tanks...are you planning on setting up another rack of tanks?


Yes...I have four shelves remaining. So I am ordering some posts to do another rack.

-Pedro


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

SCMurphy said:


> Pedro,
> 
> Who made the tanks for you? Do they not want more business?


I am not sure if they want more business or not. This was a one time deal I found.

-Pedro


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## JenThePlantGeek (Mar 27, 2006)

Very nice setup Pedro! Let us know how it works for you! *subscribed*


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

JenThePlantGeek said:


> Very nice setup Pedro! Let us know how it works for you! *subscribed*


The setup has been up an running for around 2 months, I think. No problems seen at the moment.


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## LGHT (Aug 21, 2006)

Very nice setup indeed!!


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

LGHT said:


> Very nice setup indeed!!


Thanks!:biggrin:


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## sayn3ver (Sep 1, 2006)

sexy. Just when one thinks he is truely farming another comes along and really shows up everyone else( in a classy way ofcourse).:hihi: roud:


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## guitardude9187 (Aug 22, 2006)

I checked out the selves i mention earlier today, that are made by workforce but are supported but wood planks as you mention.


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## gnatster (Mar 12, 2004)

Those workforce shelves are MDF. Getting them wet will destroy them. You would need to seal the "wood" before using them for best results.


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

*Some of the inverts*

Cambarellus patzcuarensis(orange dwarf):











Cambarellus puer:











Cambarellus montezumae:











I also have a lot of Cambarellus Shufeldtii.

-Pedro


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## sandiegoryu (Feb 15, 2006)

Now I really hope you will start selling shrimp/crayfish regularly. I saw dwarf crays in japan, and they just shocked me at how cool looking they were. Tankfull of Hinomarus, stop signs, tiger tooths etc at every LFS I went to was cool too, but dwarf crays IMO could be more appealing to me.

Very cool crayfish. Do you if they interbreed with one another?


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

sandiegoryu said:


> Now I really hope you will start selling shrimp/crayfish regularly. I saw dwarf crays in japan, and they just shocked me at how cool looking they were. Tankfull of Hinomarus, stop signs, tiger tooths etc at every LFS I went to was cool too, but dwarf crays IMO could be more appealing to me.
> 
> Very cool crayfish. Do you if they interbreed with one another?


Hopefully soon. Out of the 4 species I have three that are breeding regularly. I have to say they have lots more personality than shrimp.

Hybridization between them is possible.

-Pedro


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## sandiegoryu (Feb 15, 2006)

Also, I noticed a difference in the size of those individuals. Is it a species thing, a gender thing, or they are just seperate ages at the time of the photos...

The second one seems like it has a smaller head, third one looks to be the biggest, and orange one, the first one, seems to be the middle size. JW. In the lfs i went to, they had a crayfish called Nihon Zarigani, which means Japanese crayfish, and they seemed dwarf sized, but I'm thinking they get bigger. Also another one called White Crayfish. All the ones I saw at all LFS seemed dwarf sized. Are they also dwarf or are they normal crayfish just young. You might not know the answer but I tried.

Also just a random thing. You know those bio spheres? Well there was one in japan with a bee shrimp... I wanted to buy one lol, just for the one shrimp in there.


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## aelysa (Oct 20, 2006)

I have to say, this is very cool. The orange cray has such a lovely color!


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

Was wondering when you would post this over here! You really did a great job! I've been thinking more and more about setting up a rack sooner and sooner. First things first making room but after that....

Some questions on it similar to what I posted in the other thread, but these are more for everyone wondering about it.

Substrate- You said it was whatever you had around, when you set up your new rack, what will you use? It seems that Soilmaster Select would be the most cost effective choice (generally) would you agree?

Lights- How do you like the HD shop lights? I personally use them on most of my tanks and they are great for the price!

Filtration- the air pumps you suggested, which model do you use? Is is a BIG one or do you use one per shelf?

Heaters- Which ones did you use and why? I personally like stealth heaters, what do you use? Any specific reasons?

Do you dose any ferts on any of your tanks?

Those rimless tanks are awsome, as some one said earlier there is farming, then there is this!

Awsome racks and hope to see more pictures!

-Andrew


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

sandiegoryu said:


> Also, I noticed a difference in the size of those individuals. Is it a species thing, a gender thing, or they are just seperate ages at the time of the photos...
> 
> The second one seems like it has a smaller head, third one looks to be the biggest, and orange one, the first one, seems to be the middle size. JW. In the lfs i went to, they had a crayfish called Nihon Zarigani, which means Japanese crayfish, and they seemed dwarf sized, but I'm thinking they get bigger. Also another one called White Crayfish. All the ones I saw at all LFS seemed dwarf sized. Are they also dwarf or are they normal crayfish just young. You might not know the answer but I tried.
> 
> Also just a random thing. You know those bio spheres? Well there was one in japan with a bee shrimp... I wanted to buy one lol, just for the one shrimp in there.



They are in different stages of growing. The montezumae is an adult female that is carryin eggs. The others are young ones. They grow to ~2"

-Pedro


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

Fish Newb said:


> Was wondering when you would post this over here! You really did a great job! I've been thinking more and more about setting up a rack sooner and sooner. First things first making room but after that....
> 
> Some questions on it similar to what I posted in the other thread, but these are more for everyone wondering about it.
> 
> ...



Substrate: For the racks I used natural gravel and garnet which is a natural inert material and comes in a 100lb bag. I use SMS in the 75G. 

Pump: http://kensfish.com/airpumps/5_star_air_pump.jpg
I used one for 6 tanks.(1 rack) 

Heaters: Went cheap with them. http://kensfish.com/heaters/100_heater_glass_won.JPG


Ferts: None.

More pictures will be coming soon of shrimp.

-Pedro


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

Where did you get the garnet sand? I couldn't find anyone actually selling it online... It looks like it's used in septic systems?

-Andrew


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

Fish Newb said:


> Where did you get the garnet sand? I couldn't find anyone actually selling it online... It looks like it's used in septic systems?
> 
> -Andrew


A friend got it for me. He say it was cheap and good. I will see if i can find where he got it.

-Pedro


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

milalic said:


> A friend got it for me. He say it was cheap and good. I will see if i can find where he got it.
> 
> -Pedro


Alright thanks, it looks good but I can't find where they sell it lol!

-Andrew


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## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

you could buy a 50#+ bag of peagravel At HD for like 5$
nice work, that's what i call aquaculture!


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

I was looking around at the racks. The ones around $70 where only rated for about 600 pounds. 

I found some racks for up to 35000 pounds that look pretty good but I think the shelf is particle board....

Vogler Equipment :: Industrial Supply Online Catalog

Do you have links to the one you bought from costco? I saw a few but they wheren't too strong....

-Andrew


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## oblongshrimp (Jul 26, 2006)

does the particleboard fall apart when it gets wet? what about painting it with some waterproof paint or something?


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

Fish Newb said:


> I was looking around at the racks. The ones around $70 where only rated for about 600 pounds.
> 
> I found some racks for up to 35000 pounds that look pretty good but I think the shelf is particle board....
> 
> ...


If the shelved are particle board you need to sealed them because if you do not water will damage them. Also you need to figure how to stop the wood from bending.

One of my racks is the one from costco that you mentioned. Each tank is approx. 22G. Water weight is around 8-10lbs per gallon. I have two tanks in each rack with a very thin layer of substrate. Also, I have the pipe in the middle which helps with the weight. The two tanks should weight less than 500lbs. So the costco shelves are fine.

-Pedro


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

milalic said:


> If the shelved are particle board you need to sealed them because if you do not water will damage them. Also you need to figure how to stop the wood from bending.
> 
> One of my racks is the one from costco that you mentioned. Each tank is approx. 22G. Water weight is around 8-10lbs per gallon. I have two tanks in each rack with a very thin layer of substrate. Also, I have the pipe in the middle which helps with the weight. The two tanks should weight less than 500lbs. So the costco shelves are fine.
> 
> -Pedro


Alright that's good to know, I might order one this week 

So If I use say 2-4 10g tanks you think I would probably be fine? since that would be about the same or less than what your tanks are.

Thanks
-Andrew


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

Fish Newb said:


> Alright that's good to know, I might order one this week
> 
> So If I use say 2-4 10g tanks you think I would probably be fine? since that would be about the same or less than what your tanks are.
> 
> ...


Yes. The key is not to overdue it with the substrate.


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

milalic said:


> Yes. The key is not to overdue it with the substrate.


Alright, I shouldn't since I'm going to have moss and stuff in it... nothing in the area of root feeders really 

Probably buy a rack towards the end of the month with moss sales money... we will see!

-Andrew


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

Fish Newb said:


> Alright, I shouldn't since I'm going to have moss and stuff in it... nothing in the area of root feeders really
> 
> Probably buy a rack towards the end of the month with moss sales money... we will see!
> 
> -Andrew


Good, good, good!

-Pedro


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## whitepine (Apr 13, 2004)

You could heat the room to a constant temp and not put any heaters in the tank as well. You could also just put heaters in the top tanks this way and leave the lower ones at room temp.

Cheers, Whitepine


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

whitepine said:


> You could heat the room to a constant temp and not put any heaters in the tank as well. You could also just put heaters in the top tanks this way and leave the lower ones at room temp.
> 
> Cheers, Whitepine


For me, That isn't an option at the moment. So slowly I'll have to convert from cold water moss tanks to tropical moss and shrimp tanks.... Next fish room will be heated though....:thumbsup: 

milalic on the other hand I'm not sure about.... maybe he can. 

Is the energy cost much different? I've also read of people doing both heaters and room heaters to have a backup both ways, since the heaters won't go on unless it isn't warm enough.

-Andrew


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

Fish Newb said:


> For me, That isn't an option at the moment. So slowly I'll have to convert from cold water moss tanks to tropical moss and shrimp tanks.... Next fish room will be heated though....:thumbsup:
> 
> milalic on the other hand I'm not sure about.... maybe he can.
> 
> ...


I would think with heaters on all tanks energy cost will be less. The heaters are not always on. I have tested a computer fan with a heater for summer. The computer fan will lower the temp of the water a few degrees from the room temp and the heater will do the rest. 

-Pedro


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

*Teaser*

It is not a camera trick. It does have orangy eyes and blue coloration...guess what it is. 











-Pedro


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## aelysa (Oct 20, 2006)

Blue Tiger!
Does it have reddish stripes or is that just the photo?


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## NeonShrimp (Mar 9, 2006)

Very nice, I am also going with blue tiger but I see brown/black stripes


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## LGHT (Aug 21, 2006)

NeonShrimp said:


> Very nice, I am also going with blue tiger but I see brown/black stripes


Tigers are nice, but what about Zebras? I'm thinking on getting some of these. The seller has them labled as zebra shrimp, but I have no idea why. I just like the bluish purple color. Hopefully the have the same color in the tank and it's not just the photo.


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## aelysa (Oct 20, 2006)

I saw those too, but I think they are just bee shrimp. If you look at crayfish germany's zebra's, they look completely different.


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

LGHT said:


> Tigers are nice, but what about Zebras? I'm thinking on getting some of these. The seller has them labled as zebra shrimp, but I have no idea why. I just like the bluish purple color. Hopefully the have the same color in the tank and it's not just the photo.



These are bumble bees.


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

aelysa said:


> Blue Tiger!
> Does it have reddish stripes or is that just the photo?


Yes it does have redish stripes in te body.

-Pedro


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

milalic said:


> It is not a camera trick. It does have orangy eyes and blue coloration...guess what it is.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That looks like a snowball shrimp out of focus... no idea what all you loosers are talking about 

But I figured If I got some I might of been the first person to get them... oh well!

Can I be on your waiting list?

-Andrew

Also, you have the link to the rack on costco? I can't find it and I'm kinda going crazy LOL...


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## aelysa (Oct 20, 2006)

No, it's a tiger, the front stripes go forward and the back ones point backwards. I have some coming from singapore as we speak. Although mine are normal, not the snazzy blue and orange eyed ones like this. *envy*


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

Andrew,

It is a blue tiger. 

The link for the rack:

Costco 48" Wide Four-Shelf Unit


-Pedro


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

milalic said:


> Andrew,
> 
> It is a blue tiger.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the link For some reason I couldn't find it on their site all the sudden:thumbsdow .

I know that's a blue tiger... it doesn't look like I have paint on my PC, I was refering to the snowball in the bottom of the picture 

How are those guys doing for you? When did you get them? How was the price?

-Andrew


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

Fish Newb said:


> Thanks for the link For some reason I couldn't find it on their site all the sudden:thumbsdow .
> 
> I know that's a blue tiger... it doesn't look like I have paint on my PC, I was refering to the snowball in the bottom of the picture
> 
> ...


They are doing fine. I have one female carrying eggs. I have had them for a month and a half. I traded some inverts for them .The price is around $20-$25 each.

-Pedro


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

milalic said:


> They are doing fine. I have one female carrying eggs. I have had them for a month and a half. I traded some inverts for them .The price is around $20-$25 each.
> 
> -Pedro


Ohhh steep price maybe when you have enough I can trade a tank load of moss for some? These will cross with CRS like normal tigers right? Would keeping them with normal tigers help to keep the whole bloodline or something like CRS?

They look really good.

-Andrew

Oh, I might get a rack at the end of the month... Not too too sure Dad isn't too keen on the idea _yet_


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

*What am I?*










-Pedro


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## OregonFish (Jul 13, 2006)

your setup looks really nice.

I hope your shrimp factory goes well!


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

OregonFish said:


> your setup looks really nice.
> 
> I hope your shrimp factory goes well!


Thanks:icon_mrgr


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

milalic said:


> -Pedro


You've got to be kidding me.... What don't you have:drool: 

Aren't these those zombie shrimp or zebra shrimp or purple zebra or... or... they have a lot of common names. Not sure on Latin name

Can you give us some Specs on how you breed them? I've heard that they usually are very hard to breed!

Wow... You never cease to amaze meh!

-Andrew


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## AnneRiceBowl (May 18, 2006)

Looks like a zebra shrimp to me.


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

AnneRiceBowl said:


> Looks like a zebra shrimp to me.


For the record I'm right, at APC I clicked the picture to see it larger and noticed that the picture's name includes... *purple*%20*zebra*/*female_purple_zebra*.jpg

So yep We're right.

I really hope milalic has some good insurance for this room!

-Andrew


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## aelysa (Oct 20, 2006)

So... uh... you need a website made? I'll trade you for a pair of yellow cherries


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

Not right now. But I might take it into consideration later.

-Pedro


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## AxolotlFarmer (Nov 29, 2006)

Thank you for posting all your pics. Since my boyfreind spotted the bee shrimp at the store, he is now lifting the "we have no more room in out apartment for more tanks" statement and now we will be investing in one of those shelf units.

Hooray for the shrimp bug! They are slowly becoming our pokemon-Gotta Catch 'em all!

What new shrimp will Milalic have next week? I will stay tuned in to find out!

Oh and your "guess what I am shrimp" next time dont make the file name "female_purple_zebra.jpg".  takes out all the fun from guessing.


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

AxolotlFarmer said:


> Thank you for posting all your pics. Since my boyfreind spotted the bee shrimp at the store, he is now lifting the "we have no more room in out apartment for more tanks" statement and now we will be investing in one of those shelf units.
> 
> Hooray for the shrimp bug! They are slowly becoming our pokemon-Gotta Catch 'em all!
> 
> What new shrimp will Milalic have next week? I will stay tuned in to find out!


LOL! 

I think we need to make the FWIKOA - Fresh Water Invert Keepers of America and offer rehab for people with this contagious obsession!

-Andrew


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## LGHT (Aug 21, 2006)

milalic said:


> These are bumble bees.


I thought bumble bee shrimp where black. These don't look black?


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

LGHT said:


> I thought bumble bee shrimp where black. These don't look black?


Not all of them are black.


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

*Bumble bee female*



















-Pedro


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

Where did you get these guys n gals? You might be interested in the shrimpnow topic about the bumble bees these look like type... IIII I think... Can't remember too well but supposedly there are 6 types of bumble bee shrimp known in Singapore-Japan-China trade, and Silane is translating an article slowly but surely!

-Andrew

Probably type I just reread the thread.....


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

Fish Newb said:


> Where did you get these guys n gals? You might be interested in the shrimpnow topic about the bumble bees these look like type... IIII I think... Can't remember too well but supposedly there are 6 types of bumble bee shrimp known in Singapore-Japan-China trade, and Silane is translating an article slowly but surely!
> 
> -Andrew
> 
> Probably type I just reread the thread.....


Very hard to classify shrimp by photos. It needs to be look under a microscope and do some tests to see if there are differences between them. They might all belong to the same family.

-Pedro


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

milalic said:


> Very hard to classify shrimp by photos. It needs to be look under a microscope and do some tests to see if there are differences between them. They might all belong to the same family.
> 
> -Pedro


That's the thing I was wondering the whole time in that post but hadn't posted it yet, Similar to Dart Frogs and colors... I wonder if they are the same or different... 

Do you have a good enough Microscope to do this?

-Andrew


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

Fish Newb said:


> That's the thing I was wondering the whole time in that post but hadn't posted it yet, Similar to Dart Frogs and colors... I wonder if they are the same or different...
> 
> Do you have a good enough Microscope to do this?
> 
> -Andrew


Nope, I do not.


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

milalic said:


> Nope, I do not.


Thats what I figured... They are VERY EXPENSIVE! Local college would probably have one good enough... 

Do you have any idea what magnification we would need?

-Andrew


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## pineapple (Jan 22, 2004)

Nice set up and good to see these unusual invertebrates. Did anyone mention electrical safety? Using tanks stacked on steel framed shelves has the potential for a shocking experience, especially if for some reason water spills from an upper tank onto the lower level light fixture. I hope that you have a GFCI on the power source, for your sake.


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

pineapple said:


> Nice set up and good to see these unusual invertebrates. Did anyone mention electrical safety? Using tanks stacked on steel framed shelves has the potential for a shocking experience, especially if for some reason water spills from an upper tank onto the lower level light fixture. I hope that you have a GFCI on the power source, for your sake.


Yes. I do have GFCI outlets. Thanks for the good comments. :smile:


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

*UNknow shrimp*

Trying to see if this shrimp breeds in FW. I have seeing some females developing saddles. Females seem to be a clear color while males look like the ones below:


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

It looks like a SSS golden CRS, but if it was one of those you would know and of told us...

Where did you get it?

-Andrew


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

Fish Newb said:


> It looks like a SSS golden CRS, but if it was one of those you would know and of told us...
> 
> Where did you get it?
> 
> -Andrew


It is a local shrimp from Japan. Not sure what kind it is.

-Pedro


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## jmy808 (Dec 24, 2006)

Aloha Pedro,
I don't have any suggestions for you as I am only a beginner in the hobby (or could I say- new way of life?), I only have superlatives for you. OUTSTANDING, AWESOME, BEAUTIFUL, DANG, DUDE, SUPER, etc !!!
My hat off to you and all of you actually who contribute to this newcomer's knowledge base.
Thank you and Best Regards,
Jay


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

jmy808 said:


> Aloha Pedro,
> I don't have any suggestions for you as I am only a beginner in the hobby (or could I say- new way of life?), I only have superlatives for you. OUTSTANDING, AWESOME, BEAUTIFUL, DANG, DUDE, SUPER, etc !!!
> My hat off to you and all of you actually who contribute to this newcomer's knowledge base.
> Thank you and Best Regards,
> Jay


Thanks. Hope you are enjoy the hobby.

-Pedro


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

milalic said:


> It is a local shrimp from Japan. Not sure what kind it is.
> 
> -Pedro


Ohh, I think I know what type it might be then... I'll look for the thread on Shrimpnow.com... do you have any more pictures of that tank and it's shrimp?

-Andrew


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

too bad pictures can't be seen to compare them.


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

*Crs*


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

*Indian zebra shrimp*










baby:


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

*Pregnant yellow shrimp*


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

*Yellow shrimp and white bee*


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## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

It really is a factory huh?


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

got a lot of species in the tanks.


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## Moe (Jan 22, 2004)

very nice!


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## mrbelvedere (Nov 15, 2005)

Very nice shrimp. What is that purplish sand?


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## gabeszone247 (Jul 8, 2006)

milalic said:


>


 Great looking Shrimproud:


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## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

Do you have cherries milalic?
How possible do you think it is to breed dwarf crays and cherry shrimp in the same tank?


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

mrbelvedere said:


> Very nice shrimp. What is that purplish sand?



The substrate is Garnet, a natural inert mineral.


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

dufus said:


> Do you have cherries milalic?
> How possible do you think it is to breed dwarf crays and cherry shrimp in the same tank?


I do have dwarf crayfish with cherries. Cherries still breed like rabbits.

-Pedro


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## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

Cool, thank you much. I'm gonna breed the two in the same tank(or try) and wasn't too positive yet.


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## blueguppygirl (Oct 30, 2006)

Beautiful shrimp! The Orange dwarf shrimp and the white ones where amazing!
Keep us updated this is one amazing project. Too bad I'm poor.


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

Thanks for the comments.


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

So can you name all the types of shrimp you have off the top of your head?

Awesome pictures... Where are you getting all these shrimp from?

-Andrew

Ohh and the invert rack is going to have to go on hold.. keeping the temperature up in the tanks in an unfinished basement would be murder to my wallet! Moss rack in the make now..


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

Fish Newb said:


> So can you name all the types of shrimp you have off the top of your head?
> 
> Awesome pictures... Where are you getting all these shrimp from?
> 
> ...


I can make the list but too lazy to type all those names. will do later.


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

milalic said:


> I can make the list but too lazy to type all those names. will do later.


Ohh so you have lots and lots! Its good to know you can name them all off the top of your head thoughroud: 

Where did you get them mainly other hobbyists around the country/world or LFS wholesalers lists?

-Andrew


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## jgb77 (Dec 13, 2006)

milalic said:


> The substrate is Garnet, a natural inert mineral.


 Pedro, what are you using in the crs tank to maintain a lower ph, since the gravel is inert and most people use some type of acidic substrate. Do you use RO water or something else? Also very nice crs you have there. Thanks,
John


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## RESGuy (Jan 15, 2007)

Very cool mililacroud: I always enjoy seeing your pictures and your rack


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

Fish Newb said:


> Ohh so you have lots and lots! Its good to know you can name them all off the top of your head thoughroud:
> 
> Where did you get them mainly other hobbyists around the country/world or LFS wholesalers lists?
> 
> -Andrew


Got them mainly from other hobbyists.


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

jgb77 said:


> Pedro, what are you using in the crs tank to maintain a lower ph, since the gravel is inert and most people use some type of acidic substrate. Do you use RO water or something else? Also very nice crs you have there. Thanks,
> John


RO water plus muriatric acid...long process.


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## overallgal (Jan 1, 2007)

Pedro,
Great Thread very nice set-up and shrimp. When do you plan on sharing some of your wealth (shrimplets)? Would you please put me on your list.
Thank you for all the information.
Darlene


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

Darlene,

At the moment the only thing available is dwarf crays. I hope to have some of them available soon. Most of them are medium to slow breeders.

Cheers,


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## D.gilly (Sep 25, 2005)

RESGuy said:


> I always enjoy seeing your pictures and your rack



anyone else see a possible misunderstanding in this statement ?:icon_roll 

sweet rack never the less i cant wait to see it crawling with millions of baby shrimp


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## RESGuy (Jan 15, 2007)

D.gilly said:


> anyone else see a possible misunderstanding in this statement ?:icon_roll
> 
> sweet rack never the less i cant wait to see it crawling with millions of baby shrimp


lol I thought the same thing after I posted it!!!:icon_redf I just thought you guys wouldn't think of that lol


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

*My newest babies*




















Enjoy,


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## RESGuy (Jan 15, 2007)

Aww, thanks for sharing man, what are they?:icon_surp


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## blueguppygirl (Oct 30, 2006)

Aww they're so cute! The baby looks like a Cambarellus patzcuarensis(orange dwarf). Am I right?


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## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

looks like ^those to me. sweet!!!!!


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

blueguppygirl said:


> Aww they're so cute! The baby looks like a Cambarellus patzcuarensis(orange dwarf). Am I right?


I think you are!

They look great!

Whats the other cray you are housing them with? Is it the normal colored one?

-Andrew


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

blueguppygirl said:


> Aww they're so cute! The baby looks like a Cambarellus patzcuarensis(orange dwarf). Am I right?


yes you are.


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

Fish Newb said:


> I think you are!
> 
> They look great!
> 
> ...


the other cray is an orange-brown of the same species


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## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

Hey mil. are you breeding the blues yet?
I heard people are still being stumped trying to get that blue to come true.
It would be a great challenge for you, you're definately good enough to take it on.


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

dufus said:


> Hey mil. are you breeding the blues yet?
> I heard people are still being stumped trying to get that blue to come true.
> It would be a great challenge for you, you're definately good enough to take it on.


all of my 'blue' ones reverted to their normal coloration. Some young show bluish color but it comes and go.


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

*Rack update*

The room was a mess after the first two racks. So I decided to set up another one and cleaned the room. I can even walk on the room now.

I currently have three racks picture below.





























The tank that loos brown is like that because of the ADA amazonia.

I also have a 75G tank in here:











So in total I have: one 75G tank, two 10G tanks and 14 custom made tanks.
Most of them powered by air pumps and 4 using HOB filters that were already seeded with bacteria.


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## Riley (Jan 24, 2006)

Very cool set up!! I cant wait until I can set up something like that. Looks sweet man.


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## eon17 (Aug 30, 2007)

whats in the 75?


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

eon17 said:


> whats in the 75?


looks like malayian trumpets & ramshorn


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

mistergreen said:


> looks like malayian trumpets & ramshorn


plus cajun dwarf crayfish and cherries


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## kangshiang (Jun 28, 2006)

Shrimps' heaven.......


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

Every time I see your pictures I think, MAN am I slaking!

How is the price per profit? I would assume you're still in the hole on these?

But hell, its a long term investment so who cares right?

-Andrew


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

kangshiang said:


> Shrimps' heaven.......


shrimps and crays...


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

Fish Newb said:


> Every time I see your pictures I think, MAN am I slaking!
> 
> How is the price per profit? I would assume you're still in the hole on these?
> 
> ...


I am still recuperating and i have a few breeding projects with the crays to maximize the amount of babies that survive. I think in the long run everything will be fine.


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

milalic said:


> I am still recuperating and i have a few breeding projects with the crays to maximize the amount of babies that survive. I think in the long run everything will be fine.


Thats good to know, and what I figured. 

I still haven't set up a rack yet, but it should be 'soon' even though I am always saying this. Probably wooden racks though.

My debate in 4ft racks with 4 10gs per shelf? or larger tanks? or custom tanks which probably will cost 100 or more per opposed to the $10 10g. 

Maybe take the top rims off the 10g tanks? 

Hopefully over the winter I get my rack at least made, let along put tanks on it:icon_roll 

-Andrew


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## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

Andrew, what's it matter if there's rims on the tanks? It's not a show system, it's a breeding factory!!!

Mil. Awesome system you've got.


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

dr.tran said:


> Holly crap! i didn't know that metal rack can hold like 100 lbs per level! I have the same metal rack and I was afraid of using it cuz the only thing that holds it is that black rubber thing. I thought everything was gonna fall down and I was gonna cry!
> 
> Did you reinforce it or anything?


Dr Tran, read the beginning of this thread. Pedro reinforced the racks with a custom solution because of the racks sagging because of the weight.


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## dr.tran (Oct 8, 2007)

No thats not what I ment! I know that! I know he put those rods in the middle to prevent the sag. 

BUT! those racks are held up but a plastic black tube that goes in the connection between the rack and the stand itself. I figured anything more than 40 lbs will make that plastic slip or crack. Therefore no good for the 100 lbs test for something around the range of 11.5 gal range. Since 1 gal is approx 8 lbs. 

I always thought of using it since it can provide so much space but I was afraid the connection will fail. Its not welded to the stand itself.


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

dufus said:


> Andrew, what's it matter if there's rims on the tanks? It's not a show system, it's a breeding factory!!!


Actually it is somewhat the same predicament that Pedro was in. Its probably going to be in my basement that we're hopefully going to finish off this year. It will have to look good because it will be out in the open and rims on tanks make them look so bad opposed to without. 

Don't want to take over his great thread.

-Andrew


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

dr.tran said:


> No thats not what I ment! I know that! I know he put those rods in the middle to prevent the sag.
> 
> BUT! those racks are held up but a plastic black tube that goes in the connection between the rack and the stand itself. I figured anything more than 40 lbs will make that plastic slip or crack. Therefore no good for the 100 lbs test for something around the range of 11.5 gal range. Since 1 gal is approx 8 lbs.
> 
> I always thought of using it since it can provide so much space but I was afraid the connection will fail. Its not welded to the stand itself.


HI there. Two of the racks withstand at least 600lbs per shelf. The other rack withstands 1000lbs per shelf. With the added rod in the middle, I believe it will not break or anything.

My belief is reinforce by the fact that they are used where I work and they work fine with heavy things.


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## dr.tran (Oct 8, 2007)

Wow. I had no idea. To think its only being held by a peice or plastic. amazing


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

dr.tran said:


> Wow. I had no idea. To think its only being held by a peice or plastic. amazing


They have been holding good for me...


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## kzr750r1 (Jun 8, 2004)

Those are nice racks and a decent mod to keep the flex at bay. A compression fitting like those shouldn't fail as you fear Dr. Tran.

My only worry is tippage. My daughter is a climber. I'd have to tack the thing to the wall.

Nice setup milalic. Your doing something I have been thinking about over the last year or so.

Nice tanks too. :thumbsup:


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## Cattius (Nov 5, 2007)

This is awesome Pedro. This is what I hope to do one day. It would be an awesome side business.


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## Erin D. (Nov 11, 2007)

*Beautiful Work!*

I'm so impressed with the work you've put into this project - it must be so satisfying to have everything just the way you like it. Well done! The person who made the tanks did a fantastic job, as well - wow.


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