# Monte Carlo not doing so great



## Krispyplants (Apr 15, 2014)

How are you battling the algae?


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

Krispyplants said:


> How are you battling the algae?


It was through the use of peroxide, and excel, but that was a month or so ago, and these were planted after that.


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

How height is your tank? Running at 70% my guess is not enough light for it. Especially since it's all the way on the bottom. In my high tank at 22" from light to substrate is about 40 par. You might be on the low end even less depending on how deep your tank is running at 70%

Check the par data I did here for it. And especially since your doing co2 running it at 70% I'm guessing you are at 20-30 par which just isn't going to cut it. Remember light is what drives the plants. 
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1...24-7-planted-par-lux-kelvin-pur-readings.html

You need to be at medium light to help the monte carlo

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## Krispyplants (Apr 15, 2014)

Keep in kind that directly applying glut or peroxide onto the plant may very well melt it


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

clownplanted said:


> How height is your tank? Running at 70% my guess is not enough light for it. Especially since it's all the way on the bottom. In my high tank at 22" from light to substrate is about 40 par. You might be on the low end even less depending on how deep your tank is running at 70%
> 
> Check the par data I did here for it. And especially since your doing co2 running it at 70% I'm guessing you are at 20-30 par which just isn't going to cut it. Remember light is what drives the plants.
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1...24-7-planted-par-lux-kelvin-pur-readings.html
> ...


The height of my tank is 14" running the 24" Finnex 24/7. I see, the reason the light was turned down a little was due to elimination of the algae, I just never turned it back up incase of this helping it grow again, but I will try upping the light to see if this helps the carlo. The co2 comes on 1 hour before lights on, and goes off 1 hour before lights off.

Below the LED fixture is a 3mm thick glass pannel, I'm not too sure if that will affect par by much though.



Krispyplants said:


> Keep in kind that directly applying glut or peroxide onto the plant may very well melt it


I was aware of that yeah, but these new pots of monte carlo were added nearly 1 month after the peroxide dosing, which is why I am unsure the cause of the poor health.


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

Ninja_green said:


> The height of my tank is 14" running the 24" Finnex 24/7. I see, the reason the light was turned down a little was due to elimination of the algae, I just never turned it back up incase of this helping it grow again, but I will try upping the light to see if this helps the carlo. The co2 comes on 1 hour before lights on, and goes off 1 hour before lights off.
> 
> Below the LED fixture is a 3mm thick glass pannel, I'm not too sure if that will affect par by much though.
> 
> ...




The glass will also lessen the light as well. How much I am not sure. What I am sure of though is between running it at just 70% and also the glass lid that will not be enough light. Seems like you have the right amount of ferts and make sure your co2 is 30ppm by the time the light comes on. I would turn up the light. 


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

clownplanted said:


> Ninja_green said:
> 
> 
> > The height of my tank is 14" running the 24" Finnex 24/7. I see, the reason the light was turned down a little was due to elimination of the algae, I just never turned it back up incase of this helping it grow again, but I will try upping the light to see if this helps the carlo. The co2 comes on 1 hour before lights on, and goes off 1 hour before lights off.
> ...


Thanks for the advice, I'll up the light and see how it goes. Yeah my Co2 drop checker is green by the time the lights come on.

I think I need to improve on the dosing of my ferts though, as I have noticed that when I dose, by the end of the week I have quite abit of diatoms on the side of the glass.


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## DennisSingh (Nov 8, 2004)

You do not need to up your lighting. The one-two punch is pretty likely melting your mc off. Up nitrates, i see your dosing ei, that is good for the foreground. Lighting is fine where it is at. Are you seeing pearling? rapid pearling? Forget about the diatoms for now and focus on growing the monte carlo. you can siphon with a airline tube the diatoms, but do not use the excel and glut. and h2o2 imo. Stop using those and wait for recovery.


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

StrungOut said:


> You do not need to up your lighting. The one-two punch is pretty likely melting your mc off. Up nitrates, i see your dosing ei, that is good for the foreground. Lighting is fine where it is at. Are you seeing pearling? rapid pearling? Forget about the diatoms for now and focus on growing the monte carlo. you can siphon with a airline tube the diatoms, but do not use the excel and glut. and h2o2 imo. Stop using those and wait for recovery.


 What nitrate ppm should I aim for roughly? I am not seeing pearling from the monte carlo, but my rotala green has mild pearling, all my other plants don’t pearl. Will do! As I liquid dose, me upping the nitrate will also increase the sulphate & phosphate, is this ok? Or should I move to dry dosing for a more precise dosing?


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## DennisSingh (Nov 8, 2004)

Ninja_green said:


> What nitrate ppm should I aim for roughly? I am not seeing pearling from the monte carlo, but my rotala green has mild pearling, all my other plants don’t pearl. Will do! As I liquid dose, me upping the nitrate will also increase the sulphate & phosphate, is this ok? Or should I move to dry dosing for a more precise dosing?


Might want to up the co2 for faster pearl rate. Light seems good in my opinion by your picture.
I don't know whats in your liquid fert but aim for KNO3 15ppm. Dry or liquid is fine...


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

StrungOut said:


> Might want to up the co2 for faster pearl rate. Light seems good in my opinion by your picture.
> I don't know whats in your liquid fert but aim for KNO3 15ppm. Dry or liquid is fine...


 Ok I will up the co2 gradually, and monitor to see how the fish and plants react. The light penetrates through the soil about 1.5". I have attached my EI fert ingredients, although I currently don’t dose what is on that sheet, as this would result me having very high nitrates.


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## DennisSingh (Nov 8, 2004)

Observe daily, look at leaves closely, take pictures lots...


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

After turning the co2 up today (still a green/lime green) I am still not seeing any pearling from the monte carlo, and the rotala green also doesn't seem to pearl much either really. I also have quite a high detris buildup on the rocks, even after removing it all during my WC on saturday.


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## DennisSingh (Nov 8, 2004)

Ninja_green said:


> After turning the co2 up today (still a green/lime green) I am still not seeing any pearling from the monte carlo, and the rotala green also doesn't seem to pearl much either really. I also have quite a high detris buildup on the rocks, even after removing it all during my WC on saturday.


You can now higher light if you want, but i still think plants are recovering from the melting from the two liquids.


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

StrungOut said:


> Ninja_green said:
> 
> 
> > After turning the co2 up today (still a green/lime green) I am still not seeing any pearling from the monte carlo, and the rotala green also doesn't seem to pearl much either really. I also have quite a high detris buildup on the rocks, even after removing it all during my WC on saturday.
> ...


I have upped the light alittle, co2 is the same as yesterday. I am still dosing 3ml of both micros/macros, but will monitor my parameters and increase these. The only thing I'm abit worried about is high amounts of diatoms, and debris throughout the week, although you said ignore the diatoms.


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## DennisSingh (Nov 8, 2004)

Diatoms will not kill your plants. They are only an eyesore at this moment. Yes I advise to ignore them and focus on good MC growth first.


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

Ninja_green said:


> I have upped the light alittle, co2 is the same as yesterday. I am still dosing 3ml of both micros/macros, but will monitor my parameters and increase these. The only thing I'm abit worried about is high amounts of diatoms, and debris throughout the week, although you said ignore the diatoms.




Get a couple algae eaters like Otto cat or SAE and they will make quick work of the diatoms. 


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

StrungOut said:


> Diatoms will not kill your plants. They are only an eyesore at this moment. Yes I advise to ignore them and focus on good MC growth first.


Ok that's good to know! I am going to try with the MC, I just hope I can get a carpet growing from it, as it is one of the easier carpeting plants.



clownplanted said:


> Ninja_green said:
> 
> 
> > I have upped the light alittle, co2 is the same as yesterday. I am still dosing 3ml of both micros/macros, but will monitor my parameters and increase these. The only thing I'm abit worried about is high amounts of diatoms, and debris throughout the week, although you said ignore the diatoms.
> ...


I was looking at this a while back, I would opt for Otto cats, but how many would be recommended for a 20gal 2ft long tank? I already have 5 rummy and 3 cardinals. Don't want to over stock too much.


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## Vinster8108 (Sep 1, 2016)

My MC seems to be doing well in the same tank/water conditions. I have a Finnex planted plus 24/7 over my Spec V tank (light's ~14" off substrate (ADA aqua soil)). I'm doing injected CO2 as well. I am running the lighting very low for the planted 24/7. Just 10% of the brightness. Select a memory slot on the remote and press the white LED up button once. Then add in as much color LED as you want (I bumped up the red to make my RCS pop out). Then save the color option. I run the light 8 hours a day, 4 in the morning, 4 hour break and 4 hours in the evening. CO2 comes on with the light. 
I does flourish ferts irregularly, WC's: 40% ~every 10 days. 

Idk what the PAR is at this setting. I don't get any pearling at this level of light. If I go 100% on the 24/7, the MC pearls but my GSA gets outta control.


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

Vinster8108 said:


> My MC seems to be doing well in the same tank/water conditions. I have a Finnex planted plus 24/7 over my Spec V tank (light's ~14" off substrate (ADA aqua soil)). I'm doing injected CO2 as well. I am running the lighting very low for the planted 24/7. Just 10% of the brightness. Select a memory slot on the remote and press the white LED up button once. Then add in as much color LED as you want (I bumped up the red to make my RCS pop out). Then save the color option. I run the light 8 hours a day, 4 in the morning, 4 hour break and 4 hours in the evening. CO2 comes on with the light.
> I does flourish ferts irregularly, WC's: 40% ~every 10 days.
> 
> Idk what the PAR is at this setting. I don't get any pearling at this level of light. If I go 100% on the 24/7, the MC pearls but my GSA gets outta control.


 I am currently running max on the finnex 24/7, at around the same depth as you to the substrate. I was previously running 70%, but have increased this as suggested. I run 7 hours straight, although splitting it up like you have would be better for my viewing. Luckily I don’t seem to get any GSA with my current light setting, thankfully!
I think mine is down to me dosing peroxide and excel though as other members have stated here. I will keep this thread updated to show if there has been any improvement


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

Hello all, just updating this thread with new pictures. I think there has been some new growth on the centre Monte Carlo, but the left side seems to still be struggling. (Left old & right new). I have sufficient flow in all areas of the tank, so I don’t think this is the cause.

Middle Section of the carpet:







Left Side of the carpet:







Side view (Picture took today):








I have also added some otos and they have been doing a great job removing the diatoms, thanks for the recommendation clownplanted.


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

Ninja_green said:


> Hello all, just updating this thread with new pictures. I think there has been some new growth on the centre Monte Carlo, but the left side seems to still be struggling. (Left old & right new). I have sufficient flow in all areas of the tank, so I don’t think this is the cause.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Light could be struggling to get to that area? In my 60 gallon tank the areas in the corners the plants would struggle. I also have a Finnex 24/7. I added a second light beamswork dhl 6500k and it fixed the issue. Just a thought. 


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

clownplanted said:


> Light could be struggling to get to that area? In my 60 gallon tank the areas in the corners the plants would struggle. I also have a Finnex 24/7. I added a second light beamswork dhl 6500k and it fixed the issue. Just a thought.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 I think there is enough light reaching the plants on the left, you can see in the second picture how deep the light penetrates through the soil. Even a few of the stem plants above the Monte Carlo on the left seem to have a slower growth, so maybe it is distribution of ferts/co2 although I feel like the water flow is too much imo.


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

Another quick update, I seem to have stable growth, and can start to see it filling in the middle slowly. Left and right sides are still growing a bit slower, I have changed the flow after today’s WC, so we will see if that helps, if not i will have to look into lighting as mentioned previously.

[Last Week/ New Picture]


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

Looking good. Many do not realize how important flow is and can be a cause of many issues. A good way to check for flow is move the drop checker in furthest point away and check ph levels all around tank for even ph. Looking good. 


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

clownplanted said:


> Looking good. Many do not realize how important flow is and can be a cause of many issues. A good way to check for flow is move the drop checker in furthest point away and check ph levels all around tank for even ph. Looking good.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Agreed! I had to upgrade my filter a few months ago due to low flow. I have removed some material within the canister to increase flow, I also re positioned my powerhead, which is now pushing the co2 bubbles through all the plants at the bottom. All oto's doing good also  great little guys!


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## DennisSingh (Nov 8, 2004)

How's going now? MC is a fast plant
thickening up?


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

strungout said:


> how's going now? Mc is a fast plant
> thickening up?


Growth has been steady, I think without taking pictures I wouldn't notice the changes as much. Both the right and left side are growing slower, not sure why exactly, but there is growth there. I have also noticed a bit of BGA growing under the soil, but nowhere else weirdly. All that aside progress on the carpet is moving in a positive direction I feel 

[Last week's picture/ updated picture]
Left Side:







Center:







Rightside:


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

Quick update on the monte carlo. It has been growing great! Middle is spreading out to towards the sides aswell, looks like I do not have any growth issues like before. It took two failed attempts, but got it growing in the end, thanks for the help along the way!


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