# Hair/thread algae is killin me



## Chucknorris (Feb 17, 2006)

I just got some glosso and planted it. Turned out it had some thread algae on it and now its going crazy. I talked to the lady at the LFS and she said try dosing the tank with Maracyn. Has anyone heard of this or tried it??? Any other options???

Thanks


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## PeteyPob (Apr 26, 2004)

I dont think the medication would help. I have been struggling with this particular algae and some light bba for some time now and cant figure it out. Just keep steady on the dosing, remove as much as possible, and wait  .
-Pete


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## PeteyPob (Apr 26, 2004)

p.s. Does the boogy man really check his closet for you before he goes to bed?


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## jbot (Jan 31, 2006)

have you tried excel?


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## mrbelvedere (Nov 15, 2005)

Chucknorris said:


> I just got some glosso and planted it. Turned out it had some thread algae on it and now its going crazy. I talked to the lady at the LFS and she said try dosing the tank with Maracyn. Has anyone heard of this or tried it??? Any other options???
> 
> Thanks



CO2, light, and nutrients. That's ultimately what helps. Maracyn will do absolutely nothing for thread algae.


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## John S (Feb 27, 2004)

if u are getting bba up your co2 30+ppm and check to see if u are low on phoshates and no Maracyn will not help that. it does work on bga


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## Chucknorris (Feb 17, 2006)

Ah the pet store people took me for my money again!!!
I will probably try excel next. I have DIY Co2 and I'm not sure about my phosphate level. Got about 3.3 watt per gallon and some tablet fertalizer in the soil master select gravel


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## Chucknorris (Feb 17, 2006)

*checkin their closet*

you know who also should be checking their closet for chucknorris, is the guy on the swap and shop who sold me the algae infested glosso that has now taken over my tank. It will probably kill off my other plants too my riccia is suffering:icon_evil . Its too bad that he couldnt have informed me of the hair algae grrrrr. I just can't believe how fast this stuff grows!!!!!


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## banderbe (Oct 10, 2005)

Chucknorris said:


> you know who also should be checking their closet for chucknorris, is the guy on the swap and shop who sold me the algae infested glosso that has now taken over my tank. It will probably kill off my other plants too my riccia is suffering:icon_evil . Its too bad that he couldnt have informed me of the hair algae grrrrr. I just can't believe how fast this stuff grows!!!!!


I don't buy the notion that algae infested plants result in an algae infested tank.

If you are doing your job right and your tank is healthy and properly supplemented with CO2 and nutrients, then the algae shouldn't be able to get a foothold.

That has been my experience. I picked up a few plants with BBA from a MODERATOR on another very popular planted tank website. Guess what? The BBA isn't spreading. It sure as hell wasn't the guys fault that he sold me plants with BBA. 

Try to figure out your tank and then algae won't be able to thrive.


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## leemacnyc (Dec 28, 2005)

i used maracyn to clear up some bba, and it annihilated it in under 3 days...no such luck on the thread algae though


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## Brian A (Sep 3, 2002)

there are algae spores floating around in the air everywhere. If your water is out of whack in anyway that is good for algea, it is going to happen. So even if the plants were 10000000000% free of algae, then you can still get it if the water is right.


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## banderbe (Oct 10, 2005)

flash69x said:


> there are algae spores floating around in the air everywhere. If your water is out of whack in anyway that is good for algea, it is going to happen. So even if the plants were 10000000000% free of algae, then you can still get it if the water is right.


You said it!


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## Chucknorris (Feb 17, 2006)

*yea yea*

Chucknorris loves a battle, well then again I have never lost one.

Turns out my Phosphate was 10* normal, hovering around a 5. I got some Pura Phoslock from the local LFS and plan on crushing this algae in no time. It is very strange that I have an algae problem in this tank, because I use the same water for my other tank and have no algae at all.


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## banderbe (Oct 10, 2005)

Chucknorris said:


> Chucknorris loves a battle, well then again I have never lost one.
> 
> Turns out my Phosphate was 10* normal, hovering around a 5. I got some Pura Phoslock from the local LFS and plan on crushing this algae in no time. It is very strange that I have an algae problem in this tank, because I use the same water for my other tank and have no algae at all.


I seriously doubt excess phosphates are the cause of your algae problems.


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## Brian A (Sep 3, 2002)

well how old are your lights? Old light bulbs lose some of their intensity over time and become less useful to plants. You can't tell just by looking at it but it changes. Also could be uneaten food, dead plant matter rotting, a tons of other things that can affect water quality. Just becasue you use the same water over and over doesn't mean that there isn't going to be a change in the aquarium.


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Chuck - I'm engaged in my own thread algae battle, so I can't tell you the path to salvation. But I can tell you that Excel (in moderate doses) doesn't seem to be making a dent in mine... just in case your were thinking about investing in one of those 1/2 liter jugs.


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## Chucknorris (Feb 17, 2006)

I DIDN'T seriously doubt that phosphates were the problem. I got them back down to .5 with some RO water and that phoslock. Sure enough all of the brown hair algae was gone.

Only algae left is the green hair algae. The lights are brand new/one month old. Now the challenge is defeating the green hair algae, but Chuck norris is really never challenged.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

There seems to be responses about BBA whereas you mention both thread and hair algae, so maybe people are talking about different types.

Is yours the beard algae like this? (pics courtesy of plantgeek algae overview)










Or Cladophora hair algae like this?










The second one is the one I lost the battle against in my hairgrass (originated in some willow moss). Nothing worked. Not Excel, not balancing nutrients, not cutting back iron, phosphate, micros, not physically removing it, nothing.

It's introduced from micro-filaments on purchased plants and grows best in small leaved plants (hairgrass, moss etc) where it can keep a foothold because it's not a 'sticky' algae that attaches. And where you can't remove it all without removing the plants too. Which ironically is the solution.

The only info I've researched that may work, and is what I'm currently in the process of doing right now, is totally remove all the small-leafed infested plants where it grows and throw them away. All of it. Then keep removing whatever small strands algae you find trying to settle elsewhere to survive, eg at the base of sword plants, until you're sure it's all gone. It could take weeks.

This is the point I'm at now after ripping out my entire hairgrass lawn, about a week in, and the algae looking like it's struggling to survive, with whatever is trying to grow being easily visible and very easily physically removed. For the first time ever I'm feeling confident about defeating it.

Then! When you buy the new groundcover plants, dip them in 5% bleach solution for 3-5 minutes to sterilize them of any micro-filaments of this stuff. Actually, all new plants from the lfs. As I mentioned, I'm still in the process, so can't guarantee this last bit actually works.

The idea basically is to prevent its introduction, because once there it'll never go away without a full tear-down, so in this case an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure certainly applies!

PS. The other option of being free of this stuff the easy way is to just not have any small-leafed plants/grouncover. Without anywhere to make a home, it won't make a home!


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

Ok. I have put this out before, but no one seems to be listening enough to give it a try. Here goes again:

I had a Thread algae issue in my 55 gal. It grew slowly--but it did keep growing. I would remove most of it and in a week's time it would be back. I don't know what caused it, but I _*Do*_ know what made it go away, and what is keeping it away:

Ghost/Glass Shrimp-Palaemonetes paludosus

I bought 20, but the guy gave me 40+ (too much hassle to count them he said. Cool, I said). $0.26 each. A $5.20 fix. In 2 days the thread algae was gone, and it has not returned. 

About 1 month later the population seemed to have thinned a bit--so I added 20 more. Now I probably have about 40.

I have a 29gal. shrimp tank with cherries (~ 2 dozen) in it and a Minor thread algae problem. I am waiting for their population to grow--otherwise, I am going to be adding some Ghost shrimp to that tank too.

Lacking Faith? Then try everything else. If nothing else works--why Not give the Ghost shrimps a whirl. 40:55gal worked beautifully for me...... :thumbsup:


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Naja002 said:


> Ghost/Glass Shrimp-Palaemonetes paludosus
> 
> I bought 20, but the guy gave me 40+ (too much hassle to count them he said. Cool, I said). $0.26 each. A $5.20 fix. In 2 days the thread algae was gone, and it has not returned.


A great, inexpensive fix! A number of moths ago with high hopes gave that a shot. Unfortunately in my tank such things were merely regarded as "lunch".


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## banderbe (Oct 10, 2005)

scolley said:


> Chuck - I'm engaged in my own thread algae battle, so I can't tell you the path to salvation. But I can tell you that Excel (in moderate doses) doesn't seem to be making a dent in mine... just in case your were thinking about investing in one of those 1/2 liter jugs.


I am starting Excel treatment on my tank today for a thread/hair/cladophora algae problem. I can't really tell what kind of algae it is, it's just thin and stringy and loves my mayaca plant and the leaf edges of basically everything else.

I will try to remember to update this thread if it works for me.


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## Chucknorris (Feb 17, 2006)

*beard or thread*

My green "thread/hair" algae looks a lot like that beard algae but not as thick. It grows the best on the top of my driftwood a couple inches away from my light source. It also likes to grow on my dwarf sag. The glosso doesn't seem to be affected by it. I also have some riccia right by the top of the driftwood and that doesn't seem to be affected at all. Hmmmmm. 

I am thinking of tearing out my driftwood and either using a bleach solution or the H2o2 on it. But since the slate that it is attached to is under a lot of plants I really want to avoid the hassle. I am getting some chinese hillstream from sunyokim soon and they are supposed to like algae. We will see what happens.


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## leemacnyc (Dec 28, 2005)

*Excel Treatment*

Assume the Excel treatment for algae is overdosing, and specific #'s on this form of treatment? thanks


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## sparrow (Feb 27, 2006)

The Excel dosing, as I understand it, is simply to provide more co2 to the tank. 

In his Estimative Index treatise, Tom Barr seems to have concluded that almost all algae outbreaks are due to either a shortage of some nutrient, a combination nutrient shortages, or a shortage of co2. Between those, co2 is more likely to be the culprit. It makes for some really good reading if you haven't already familiarized yourself with it.

ChuckNorris, did I read correctly that you have 3.3wpg, are running diy co2, and don't know what your approximate phosphate levels are!? :icon_eek: That seems like a lot of light to be pushing for non-pressurized co2. To get it under control, you may have to consistently supplement your diy-co2 with Excel to keep the levels high enough for that much light.

Why not try pushing your co2 level up to around 30ppm, and starting an EI dosing schedule to keep your nutrient levels balanced?

Good luck!


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## banderbe (Oct 10, 2005)

sparrow said:


> The Excel dosing, as I understand it, is simply to provide more co2 to the tank.


No, you are wrong.

Excel contains a compound with algaecidal properties called Glutaraldehyde.

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/36497-post50.html



sparrow said:


> Tom Barr seems to have concluded that almost all algae outbreaks are due to either a shortage of some nutrient, a combination nutrient shortages, or a shortage of co2. Between those, co2 is more likely to be the culprit.


While Tom's method works great for lots of folks, it isn't a cure all. Many folks around here seem to have ample nutrients and abundant levels of CO2 and yet continue to fight with algae- myself included.



sparrow said:


> Why not try pushing your co2 level up to around 30ppm, and starting an EI dosing schedule to keep your nutrient levels balanced?


It's worth noting also that those whose tanks aren't sufficiently planted can use the EI method and still wind up with nutrient levels that are anything but balanced.


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## sparrow (Feb 27, 2006)

banderbe said:


> Excel contains a compound with algaecidal properties called Glutaraldehyde.
> 
> http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/36497-post50.html


I'm glad to have learned that! My apologies for being mistaken. That being said, I'm presently pushing pressurized co2 and haven't had to use any Excel. Yet. 



banderbe said:


> It's worth noting also that those whose tanks aren't sufficiently planted can use the EI method and still wind up with nutrient levels that are anything but balanced.


Well, it has worked well for me so far. Then again, I started with a very very high plant load to soak up nutrients from the water column.

I realize that the EI method isn't the "be all end all" and that people will still have variations. It just seems to me that the method is a good starting point in trying to bring an algae outbreak situation under control. It, at a minimum, provides a standard operating procedure upon which to make changes to suit each individual tank. Any logic that can be brought to bear when battling such a complex issue as controlling algae has got to be a good thing.


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## banderbe (Oct 10, 2005)

sparrow said:


> Then again, I started with a very very high plant load to soak up nutrients from the water column.


I think this is a point that is not stressed nearly enough in all the talk about how to keep a planted tank free of algae.

I use the EI method myself and it's been pretty good for helping a newbie get a tank up and running, but I do have four different algaes in my tank: GSA, BGA, BBA, and hair/thread which may or may not be staghorn or cladophora. The algae isn't out of control, but it sure as hell isn't going away and I'm doing everything Tom says to do. My CO2 is through the roof. So now I am resorting to Flourish Excel to try and kill the algae.


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## JenThePlantGeek (Mar 27, 2006)

Something about CO2 in general is anathema to algae... Flourish Excel works great as an algaecide, but that's not it's purpose. It puts a form of Carbon into the water which the plants can use. That's why we put CO2 in the tanks - carbon. When you consider that a plant is basically carbon and water, you can see how it would be an important thing to have!

From Big Al's decription of Excel:


> Flourish excel is a simple source of readily available organic carbon. All plants require a source of carbon. This is typically obtained from co2, but, may also be obtained via relatively simple organic compounds (such as photosynthetic intermediates). Since both processes occur simultaneously one can derive a substantial benefit with the use of flourish excel either alone or in conjunction with co2 injection. Flourish excel also has iron reducing properties which promote the ferrous state of iron (fe+2), which is more easily utilized by plants than ferric iron (fe+3).


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## banderbe (Oct 10, 2005)

JenThePlantGeek said:


> Something about CO2 in general is anathema to algae


Yep, it promotes healthy plants.


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## bastalker (Dec 8, 2004)

banderbe said:


> No, you are wrong.
> 
> Excel contains a compound with algaecidal properties called Glutaraldehyde.
> 
> ...


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## mjproost (Feb 13, 2006)

> but I do have four different algaes in my tank: GSA, BGA, BBA, and hair/thread which may or may not be staghorn or cladophora.


Wow, I have never had all four of those algaes at the same time. Are you doing regular 50% water changes? 
Do you know for sure that your CO2 levels are threw the roof? For a while, according to one of those charts I had 50+ ppm CO2. But, I added another 2 DIY bottles (4 on a 75) before the fish got stressed. The best way I have found to test that I have enough CO2 is fully aerate some of the water and test the ph and then add my CO2 and if I get close to one point drop I have enough, or watch for fish stress. I run an airstone for 8 hours right after the light goes out.

This is what I have found on my highl ight tanks:
Low carbon= magnifies problems below
Low Ca/Mg= magnifies all below problems
low NO3 to PO4 ratio=GSA or greenwater
high NO3 to PO4(usually none)= hair algae everytime, especially that long stringy stuff you get from WOF.
LOw water movement+low CO2= BBA
I have never really battled BGA, just once or twice on a tank I did not do regular maintenance on.

BTW- that 20 gallon you saw at the show had two types of hair algae, and GSA algae at one point. Now its totally clear of algae. I got rid of the GSA by fixing my nutreint levels and cleaning the tank with a micron filter filled with diatoms.

Also, another guy around here is playing with Hydrogen peroxide to kill hair algae because he refuses to dose phosphates. It did a fantastic job, but also killed his bacteria colony. I tried grew some hair algae for FISA's Flag fish. But, I didn't think the Hydrogen Peroxide would work, but it killed it quickly and almost completely. But, it also killed my Ottos. But, not the rainbows or Cories. Haven't really found any plants it really kills, it stunts walachii, and made the hairgrass funky for a few days. But, alas the only hair algae I have left is tied up in my HC and I don't want to test it on that until I can get a good group of HC.


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## banderbe (Oct 10, 2005)

bastalker said:


> banderbe said:
> 
> 
> > No, you are wrong.
> ...


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## banderbe (Oct 10, 2005)

mjproost said:


> Wow, I have never had all four of those algaes at the same time. Are you doing regular 50% water changes?


Yes.



> Do you know for sure that your CO2 levels are threw the roof?


Yes.



> For a while, according to one of those charts I had 50+ ppm CO2.


Read my post in the water parameters forum about how I have (according to the chart) 147 ppm of CO2. I don't believe that figure is accurate but for a number of reasons which I outline there, I do believe my CO2 is quite high.



> But, I added another 2 DIY bottles (4 on a 75) before the fish got stressed. The best way I have found to test that I have enough CO2 is fully aerate some of the water and test the ph and then add my CO2 and if I get close to one point drop I have enough, or watch for fish stress.


Done that.



> I run an airstone for 8 hours right after the light goes out.


So do I.


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## sparrow (Feb 27, 2006)

banderbe said:


> Read her post again. She is suggesting that the reason it is effective against algae is that it gives more carbon to the plants. That's wrong.
> 
> Anyone can read the bottle and know it provides organic carbon, so obviously I'm not claiming she's wrong about that.



Sparrow is not a "her" nor a "she".


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## mjproost (Feb 13, 2006)

Banderbe-

Wow, that is interesting. I don't think I could make all four types of algae grow at the same time if I tried. That dosen't leave much to go on, except maybe bad lighting, a Ca/Mg issue or not enough plants. I have a large plastic tub I use as a grow-out space. I used to light it with 175 watt MH's. I used to use these cheap philips 175mh and they worked OK for $9.99 each. I just bought two new ones plugged them in. I instantly had brown algae and things stopped growing. I tested everything and all was well, but the tub was getting funky and nothing was growing. I switched over to some 48" t-8 flourescents and all is well again.

Maybe lighting?


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## Chucknorris (Feb 17, 2006)

*hair algae*

Now this green hair like algea is turning white and more of like spider web stuff. Is this dying off or transforming into some other algae beast. Has anyone had white hair algae man o man.


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## JenThePlantGeek (Mar 27, 2006)

It is dying. Congrats! Pull out the white stuff (a toothbrush swirled in circles does wonders for getting it out), keep doing what you have been doing, and hopefully it'll be gone for good! 

I had the black scaly kind of algae on my Anubias for awhile, when I turned up my CO2 and dosed better it turned white and flaked off revealing still-healthy green leaves underneath. That was a strange encounter, but I was glad to see it go!


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## Chucknorris (Feb 17, 2006)

That is working, thanks Jen. It is weird this stuff feels like fishing line.


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## JenThePlantGeek (Mar 27, 2006)

Fishing line? Weird. I've seen some strange algae, but the only one that ever reminded me of fishing line was chaetomorpha in saltwater (aka fisherman's nightmare). Scroll down to the bottom: http://www.frontiernet.net/~playfair/4sale/availability.html

That's great to hear that it's cleaning up though! Congradulations. Kinda feels like you won a war, doesn't it?


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## Oqsy (Jul 3, 2004)

sparrow, banderbe: as for excel... both of you are right! i don't see the cause for argument/disagreement. excel does BOTH things, and is an effective anti-algae treatment in many cases for both reasons. the glut. is helpful because it's toxic to the algae, and the "organic" carbon is problematic for the algae because it provides the plants with a "boost", helping them outcompete the algae. it seems like you guys are agreeing and arguing at the same time. i've discovered a new algae in my tanks that seems to be immune to excel, however, and manual removal has been the only fix. it's a yellowish/tan in color, and looks like tufts of filter floss or maybe torn apart cigarette filters. it sticks to plants and the substrate, but dislodges easier than any other algae I've encountered. at first I just thought it was a dead form of another algae, but it continues to grow and thrive without a hint of green. (and no, it's not staghorn, not nearly rigid enough) When out of the tank, it's just like little wet tufts of cotton with a "dirty tan" color... very strange. 

in any case, a combination of all the methods above in this thread is the ideal way to fix algae problems... try these and you should see results:

1. learn what your nutrient levels are in your tapwater, and also test your tank water... note any differences. then do a large water change and start dosing from a clean slate to "reset" your values to the recommended "EI" levels. keep your water changes regular and tweak the levels as your plants demand (look for deficiencies and slightly raise the levels of the needed nutrients until the plants seem happy) eventually you'll find a dosing regime that keeps the appropriate levels of all nutrients in the water column and your plants will kick it into overdrive, and the algae will be pressed hard to survive.

2. physically remove as much algae as possible. scrape the glass with a scraper, fish safe sponge, or a razor blade. if there are plants that are overtaken, toss them out OR do a bleach dip (i've also found that after a bleach dip and rinse, that sprinkling baking soda on in my hands and using it to gently "scrub" the leaves clean is even more effective). Rinse, rinse, rinse. Ideally you shouldn't treat only the plants that are totally overtaken, but any plants that have algae on them. clean your substrate (python, etc), making special note to get any algae hiding there (obviously the best time to do this is during the large water change in step 1). substrate cleaning will become less necessary as your tank matures, but for now with so many unknowns in the situation, it's best to take as many variables out from the start, so suck out that muck!

3. up your CO2 levels. push it to the max (gasping fish is too far) 40 ppm has worked great for me, but 50 was pushing it. each test kit has it's own margin of error, so the numbers aren't really as important as what you see. symptoms of too much CO2 = gasping or listless fish. symptoms of too little CO2 = algae, poor performance of plants... 

4. evaluate your lighting situation. make sure that the wattage is appropriate as well as the type of bulb (actinics are no good for plants... incandescent bulbs are worthless, and not all fluorescents are created equally). also consider your photoperiod. perhaps your lights are on too long, or not long enough... if your lights are on all day, but you're not always there to view the tank, consider a turning the lights off with a timer for a few hours midday, or just shortening the photoperiod by turning them on later, or off earlier. timers are pretty cheap at wal-mart, etc.

5. improve water flow in your tank. if there are dead spots where you notice more algae, alter the flow to fix it. either add powerheads, increase your filtration power (gph), or adjust the angle of output from your existing filtration to add flow to the problem areas.

6. add algae eaters... proven performers: otocinclus, shrimp (ghost, cherry, amano, etc), snails(research the species), american flag fish, and *some* plecos(research here too). keep in mind that once the algae is gone, they'll need some herbivore food to survive, or they'll either die or eat your plants (depending on which cleaners you choose)

all of this info is given in pretty much every "help i have algae" thread at some point or another... in cases where people say "i've tried all of that and it still doesn't work" the biggest error is impatience. defeating algae takes time. you might get outbreaks for 6 months, a year, two years... but if you're persistent and learn your tank, pay attention to what your plants like, and keep in mind what plants want and what algae wants, and only provide what the plants need and as little as possible of what the algae needs, it *will* lose its grip on your tank. Once again... patience and persistence!

Oqsy


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