# Beating BBA



## Mikeygmzmg (Mar 19, 2015)

It's taken over a year in the hobby, but I'm finally starting to figure out how to keep BBA to an absolute minimum as well as all other types of algae...

I still have tons to learn I'm sure, but am proud of my progress. I also know that you can find a million other methods out there from the best in the business with charts, formulas, scientific breakdowns, and complex graphs, but I'm going to post these tips anyways in hopes that they can help a beginner in the hobby that doesn't understand the mathematical and scientific complexities such as myself.

Brown Algae (diatoms) - This was the first one I ran into.. I viewed it as the first stage or level if you will..  To combat this, I did 50% water changes as many as 2 or 3 times a week. For brown diatoms on the hardscape, I manually removed them with steel wire brushes and toothbrushes and cyphoned them out. For brown diatoms on the leaves, I would smudge them off with my fingers or leave them alone if the plant was too sensitive. After about 2 weeks of rinsing and repeating this methods, they went away for good. Pretty much the easiest algae to get rid off and typically doesn't come back once you surpass it after the start of your tank.

Green Dust Algae - This one came up as soon as the brown diatoms were gone. Per Mr. Barr himself, I put 2 bristlenose plecos in the tank and let them do their thing. I also lowered the light a bit by raising them up 2 inches higher than they were and kept my CO2 at a STABLE 30 PPM. The reason why I caps STABLE is because it's very important not to let this CO2 level fluctuate. What that meant for me is to have 30 PPM of CO2 achieved by the time I turned on my lights. I set it up so that a timer would trigger the CO2 around 2 hours before the lights turned on. I originally had timers set to turn on co2 and lights at the same time. In a 90G tank, that was not the right choice since it took so much time to get the CO2 saturation dense enough.

BBA - This one came last and still haunts me. Fortunately, there is only a small amount left about the size of a silver dollar and as of Saturday night, it has turned red, which means it's dying!!! When it hits, it hits hard and really hits ugly!! It's IMO the worst looking algae you can get and the absolute hardest to remove. I should first mention that while completing the steps below, I was always staying on top of my water changes and pruning. Usually 50% about once every week or every other week depending on my schedule and always doing my best to remove leaves that looked like they had no chance of surviving (covered in BBA). Before I started these methods, around half of the rocks in my tank were covered with BBA as well as the bottoms of most of my plants. 

1)So the first thing I did when BBA started was got some Flourish Excel, I dosed exact amounts as the bottle read, then increased to 2x the recommended amount when I saw no progress after a week. Still no changes!! 

2) After the Flourish Excel only method failed, I cleaned my filters. This was the first time I had cleaned them out in 6 months of having the tank. once I opened up both of my canister filters (Rena XP4 and SunSun404B) I was shocked to see how much waste was inside them. Tons of dead plant matter, fish waste, and red/black soggy waste. 

3) I came up with my own method that I haven't seen before on any forums.. I'm not saying that this is what beat the BBA, but I certainly think it helped... Anywho, I had won a contest right when I started aquascaping that ACCUREL hosted. They sent me a few boxes of goodies and one of the items they sent me was "Waste and Debris Reducing Media Pads" I cut these out in the shape of my hardscape since I could not remove my hardscape materials. I then used sewing thread and tied rocks on each side of the thread to hold the pads down in place. I set them over the hardscape areas that were affected by the BBA and this made it so that the light could not reach the areas of the rocks that were affected, thus causing a "Black out period" without ever having to stop my light cycles. Let me know if you have any questions on this one and I'd be happy to help. Obviously you can't do this over plants, but for driftwood and rocks it works great. Also note, every week or so, I would remove the pads to see if there was any progress under them. When the BBA starts to turn red, you know you're winning the fight. 

4) Lastly and probably most importantly, I did my best to make sure that CO2 stayed high and consistent at 30-35 PPM and that light was not overly high. Drop Checkers can be misleading so it's important to use some feel IMO. What that means is that you have to experiment a bit and use the fauna to gage your levels. I had to spend hours slowly increasing co2 levels to where I could see the fish start to get gassed from the over abundance of co2. When they would get exasperated, I would drop down the BPS. Each time I replace my 10 lb. CO2 tank, I take the time to get it back as close as I had it before. 

5) I made sure that the flow in my tank was adequate. When I first setup my 90 gallon, it had only 2 canister filters (The Rena xp4 and a SunSun 404B). Now both of these filters claim a super high GPH, but I knew that they were not anywhere close to accurate. I added to SunSun Powerheads in my tank and did my best to make it so that there were no dead spots. It makes sense right? If the water is still in areas and waste can fall down to these spots, an algae bloom is bound to happen. 

These 5 steps really helped me conquer BBA.. It was no easy feat and I've been working at this for literally months. I think a huge part of beating it is spending the time on your tank every week and not neglecting it. If you give up, it will only get worse  Good luck!!


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## Blonde_Swede00 (Jan 17, 2016)

Good job at beating the algae! Any tips for beating freshwater green hair algae? Also, that tank is literally one of the prettiest tanks I have ever seen! Do you use Co2? Seriously, tank goals!


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## Mikeygmzmg (Mar 19, 2015)

Blonde_Swede00 said:


> Good job at beating the algae! Any tips for beating freshwater green hair algae? Also, that tank is literally one of the prettiest tanks I have ever seen! Do you use Co2? Seriously, tank goals!


Thank you very much, that is an amazing compliment. I still feel like I'm lightyears away from Amano and Tom Barr, but thank you!

I have not ran into green hair algae yet. I will need to educate myself for if it ever does come up!


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## Blonde_Swede00 (Jan 17, 2016)

Mikeygmzmg said:


> Thank you very much, that is an amazing compliment. I still feel like I'm lightyears away from Amano and Tom Barr, but thank you!
> 
> I have not ran into green hair algae yet. I will need to educate myself for if it ever does come up!


Well, if anyone isn't lightyears away from Amano I' definitely like to see their tanks! lol. Algae is tough to beat though, so bravo cause thats amazing!


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

I like your in tank blackout idea


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## Mikeygmzmg (Mar 19, 2015)

theatermusic87 said:


> I like your in tank blackout idea


Thanks man, yeah it doesn't look nice at all but seemed to help! If I need to do it again, I was thinking about soaking the pads in a hydro peroxide / excel mix first.


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## flight50 (Apr 17, 2012)

Hey nice tank there. I agree on the BBA matter. It is definitely the most difficult to get rid of. Once you get it, it's a pita getting rid of. Mine has slowly started dying off finally after a year or so. I have tried 3-4 different methods myself and the one that I believe works best is that I switched my co2 over to 24/7 again. My co2 levels fluctuated too much. So I run all my tanks on 24/7 co2 and with all the different algaes that have hit my tanks, they are slowly going away. After the last h2o2 dose on the tank with the BBA, the co2 supply is really decreasing it. Even my anubia's is starting to fight back with fewer and fewer leaves getting hit.


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## alcimedes (Dec 7, 2014)

I think I'm the only one who likes how BBA can look on rocks and driftwood. I had a tank where it covered the under gravel filter returns and I loved the look.


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

alcimedes said:


> I think I'm the only one who likes how BBA can look on rocks and driftwood. I had a tank where it covered the under gravel filter returns and I loved the look.


Little bits here and there I don't mind, esp if it's a mix of algae, but when it's a giant carpet... I'm not such a fan


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## Mikeygmzmg (Mar 19, 2015)

theatermusic87 said:


> Little bits here and there I don't mind, esp if it's a mix of algae, but when it's a giant carpet... I'm not such a fan


I can see how one would enjoy the look. For some reason, I can't stand any type of algae lol, it drives me totally nuts.. Then again, I'm the type of neurotic dude who can't relax at home unless every room is nice n clean. >.<


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## isonychia (Nov 19, 2013)

Mikey, I have a question.

How did you get around having to trim and remove plants that already have BBA?

I am battling this in my tank currently. Every day I go in and trim as many leaves as I can that have BBA. The problem is 60% of my stem plants (Limnophila Aromatica) have BBA on the leaves.
Some do not have it and new side shoot growth from topping the stems do not have it. The problem I encounter is if I trim all the leaves off the LA stems,(so I can reduce the amount of BBA) I doubt there will be enough leaves left to allow the new growth, unaffected by BBA to continue to grow and be ready for replanting/topping.

I do not have a source yet for new LA. So I cant just go out and buy some more.

So I basically am waiting for all the new side shoots to get to about 4/5" and then I can replant those and remove the lower portions with the BBA leaves.

Any thoughts? I am currently just leaving the BBA infected leaves and waiting for the newer healthy growth to mature enough for replanting.

If the new growth stays BBA free, then i know I am getting somewhere.

BUT if leaving the BBA in the tank "infects" my heathy plants even in a balanced tank, then the BBA will continue and the cycle will not be broken even if I my tanks is balanced.


iso


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## Mikeygmzmg (Mar 19, 2015)

isonychia said:


> Mikey, I have a question.
> 
> How did you get around having to trim and remove plants that already have BBA?
> 
> ...


Hey isonychia,

I did do trimming and pruning on the plants that were affected by the BBA, but had the same issue as you. If I was going to cut all of them that had a little, it would have left almost no plants in my tank! Lol. I took care of the leaves and plants that looked like they had no chance of clearing up and left the rest of them as-is. As the new growth continues, you can re-plant and propegate as much as you need. Like you said, if the new growth is not getting BBA, you're doing something right. The ultimate goal is to get the BBA to turn red and die off. Do you have Amano Shrimp? I have around 40 in my 90 gallon tank and they are hard workers.


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## isonychia (Nov 19, 2013)

Mikeygmzmg said:


> Hey isonychia,
> 
> I did do trimming and pruning on the plants that were affected by the BBA, but had the same issue as you. If I was going to cut all of them that had a little, it would have left almost no plants in my tank! Lol. I took care of the leaves and plants that looked like they had no chance of clearing up and left the rest of them as-is. As the new growth continues, you can re-plant and propegate as much as you need. Like you said, if the new growth is not getting BBA, you're doing something right. The ultimate goal is to get the BBA to turn red and die off. Do you have Amano Shrimp? I have around 40 in my 90 gallon tank and they are hard workers.


I considered getting some shrimp but the only ones I could find locally were RCS. I then did some further research and found that they were not that great at cleaning up as Amanos. But I wondered if it was worth getting Amanos as I don't know how effective they really are. Additionally I read they don't clean up live BBA. I would love to get some Amanos as I like the idea, but not sure they will help. I do have some fissidens fontanus and would like to have that cleaned up instead of me turkey basting it to clear it of mulm small amounts of rhizo etc

My main algae problem is BBA, rhizoclonium in my monte carlo and GDA/GSA. (slight amounts of GDA/GSA)

I also read conflicting opinions on EI dosing and shrimp. Any thoughts on that?

iso


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## Mikeygmzmg (Mar 19, 2015)

isonychia said:


> I considered getting some shrimp but the only ones I could find locally were RCS. I then did some further research and found that they were not that great at cleaning up as Amanos. But I wondered if it was worth getting Amanos as I don't know how effective they really are. Additionally I read they don't clean up live BBA. I would love to get some Amanos as I like the idea, but not sure they will help. I do have some fissidens fontanus and would like to have that cleaned up instead of me turkey basting it to clear it of mulm small amounts of rhizo etc
> 
> My main algae problem is BBA, rhizoclonium in my monte carlo and GDA/GSA. (slight amounts of GDA/GSA)
> 
> ...


I have seen a lot of guys say that Amanos don't help with BBA, but I tend to disagree when I see patches of them resting on top of the algae picking it and puting it in their mouths. I think they are a great addition to any planted tank and really help with algae! I have had no problem dosing EI with my Amanos but I'm not sure about other types of shrimp.


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## isonychia (Nov 19, 2013)

Mikeygmzmg said:


> I have seen a lot of guys say that Amanos don't help with BBA, but I tend to disagree when I see patches of them resting on top of the algae picking it and puting it in their mouths. I think they are a great addition to any planted tank and really help with algae! I have had no problem dosing EI with my Amanos but I'm not sure about other types of shrimp.


Thanks for the info Mike.

I will consider the Amanos.

iso


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## Solcielo lawrencia (Dec 30, 2013)

Excess nutrients are what algae (and bacteria) use to grow. Dosing too much but not so much that it's toxic? Then you'll get algae. It's unrelated to CO2. You don't need to keep CO2 high, or stable, as long as nutrients aren't in excess. That's the key. All that mumbo jumbo about CO2 is BS.


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## Mikeygmzmg (Mar 19, 2015)

Solcielo lawrencia said:


> Excess nutrients are what algae (and bacteria) use to grow. Dosing too much but not so much that it's toxic? Then you'll get algae. It's unrelated to CO2. You don't need to keep CO2 high, or stable, as long as nutrients aren't in excess. That's the key. All that mumbo jumbo about CO2 is BS.


Lots of research and study disagrees with you on this. EI dosing is specifically for providing excess nutrients. Nearly all algae problems are co2 related.


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## alcimedes (Dec 7, 2014)

I've also found that my shrimp love to hang out at the BBA picking at it as well. I don't think they're actually eating the algae when they do this though, but instead are picking out the bits of trapped debris in the algae, similar to when they're grazing the java moss areas.


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## Solcielo lawrencia (Dec 30, 2013)

Mikeygmzmg said:


> Lots of research and study disagrees with you on this. EI dosing is specifically for providing excess nutrients.


By "research" and "study", you are probably actually referring to dogma. There is no research that shows what is commonly believed. And this statement:


> Nearly all algae problems are co2 related.


Is also dogma, unsubstantiated in actual research conducted by scientists.


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## Mikeygmzmg (Mar 19, 2015)

Solcielo lawrencia said:


> By "research" and "study", you are probably actually referring to dogma. There is no research that shows what is commonly believed. And this statement:
> 
> Is also dogma, unsubstantiated in actual research conducted by scientists.


I'm not sure who Dogma is but some experts like Tom Barr agree with it as well. I just posted tips that have worked for me... I'm glad that you have it figured out, I'm sure your tank looks very nice.


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## SwampGremlin (Dec 5, 2014)

From my short experience in this hobby I only had bba when I had unstable or low CO2 and did not do 60-80% a week water changes after I had those 2 things I never saw bba ever again. When I did see a few little tufts of it I daily hits it with H2o2 and picked it with tweezers out of the tank, that accompanied with high stable co2 and weekly some times twice a week water changes it was gone within 2-3 weeks completely to never return.i never changed my dosing routine once. Now the other possibility I was thinking cold have been the leaching ammonia from the Ada aqua soil but I didn't test that to know if that's possible. I just know thats a variable that was probably there at the beginning stages of my tank that were not as it settled in.


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## Solcielo lawrencia (Dec 30, 2013)

Mikeygmzmg said:


> I'm not sure who Dogma is but some experts like Tom Barr agree with it as well. I just posted tips that have worked for me... I'm glad that you have it figured out, I'm sure your tank looks very nice.


Dogma is not a person but a principle or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true. In other words, someone with authority says it and everyone believes him. No evidence is provided nor is it requested. His authority is used as justification for the verity of his statements. He can't be wrong because he's an expert or holds advance degrees, or is in a position of authority such as police officer, judge, professor, etc. Dogma requires no evidence, just someone who others view as an expert/authority. Over time, people forget or never learn who perpetuated the dogma, so it becomes common belief. Yet it is still belief that is unsubstantiated. Evidence is required for verity.


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## fablau (Feb 7, 2009)

I have been struggling with BBA in a long time, trying everything can be conceived with Co2. At the end, I could get rid of BBA by reducing trace dosing as explained on the thread below (even though it worked temporarily for me):

CSM+B Toxicity Experiment
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=853001

I guess what Solcielo meant is that we should consider toxicities as a possibility of causing algae in the same way deficiencies do. And what are toxicities caused by? Not surely by deficiencies, but by excesses. I could see BBA disappear from my Anubia leaves in just a few days, after more than 1 year tweaking and pumping Co2 to insane levels... So.... Never exclude anything from this damn hobby.


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## dzega (Apr 22, 2013)

for me two things promote BBA growth :
1) micronutrient overdose
2) biological waste in water (dead plants etc)

on co2 thing i lean to believe it has secondary effects


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## fablau (Feb 7, 2009)

dzega said:


> for me two things promote BBA growth :
> 
> 1) micronutrient overdose
> 
> ...



I agree with that!


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## Patriot (Dec 22, 2010)

I might have to try some of these tips. I just got hit with BBA after getting some plants from Petco. I increased my Co2, but has happened yet. My tank is full of slow growing plants, all crypts.


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## JJ09 (Sep 11, 2014)

I have had a mild case of BBA in my larger tank- mostly on my prefilter sponge, some spots on driftwood and a few plants had it on the leaf margins. I have been manually removing it for some time- scraping it off the driftwood and cutting out older leaves. For a time I was adjusting photoperiod, light intensity and filter flow that screwed things up and the BBA on my sponge really proliferated. When I reduced light intensity, cut back on KN03 dosing, and increased my water flow the BBA slowed down and other algae disappeared. I've got it all removed from driftwood now and am still gradually cutting it out of plants (they are slow growers so I didn't want to remove too many leaves at once). New leaves don't have any BBA now. But the only thing that got rid of it on my sponge was to take that out of the tank and boil it. Weird thing was, it didn't turn red before it died, it turned _green_. All gone now.

I wish I knew which factor was the key- adjusting my flow which probably affected C02 levels due to surface agitation? reducing the excess nutrient in the water? and the light? probably a combo of all of them- but I do know the thing that finally killed it on my sponge was the microwave.


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## OrangeAugust (Jul 26, 2012)

isonychia said:


> I considered getting some shrimp but the only ones I could find locally were RCS. I then did some further research and found that they were not that great at cleaning up as Amanos. But I wondered if it was worth getting Amanos as I don't know how effective they really are. Additionally I read they don't clean up live BBA. I would love to get some Amanos as I like the idea, but not sure they will help. I do have some fissidens fontanus and would like to have that cleaned up instead of me turkey basting it to clear it of mulm small amounts of rhizo etc
> 
> My main algae problem is BBA, rhizoclonium in my monte carlo and GDA/GSA. (slight amounts of GDA/GSA)
> 
> ...


Maybe it's because I only have two amano shrimp, but they don't make any impact on the BBA at all. the only thing that could even make a dent in it was ramshorn and nerite snails.
Get some amanos anyway! They're really cool and they're also really hardy.


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## jrygel (Jan 29, 2014)

Blonde_Swede00 said:


> Good job at beating the algae! Any tips for beating freshwater green hair algae? Also, that tank is literally one of the prettiest tanks I have ever seen! Do you use Co2? Seriously, tank goals!




Spot treating and dosing (i.e. only used up to about 1.5 ml per gallon and left it in the tank) with H2O2 helped me with hair algae. Only dealing with BBA at this point.


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