# Stat comparison for 4 automated LED fixtures (Finnex, current, ecoxotic, aquaticlife)



## brooksie321 (Jul 19, 2014)

Nice post man!! Certainly needed to be done.. put "certain things" in perspective here..
Each light (excluding the edge, not familiar) has its place, each light can/will be perfect for your specific build..


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## xxfallacyxx (Apr 28, 2015)

On my car forums there are reputation point systems in place, at least a small symbol of cumulative thanks for appreciative forum-goers for your efforts. This is a fantastic list, thanks for the time involved in putting it together!


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## baumer1781 (Feb 1, 2011)

Have you looked at Build My LED? They have a controller and stats including PAR are on their page. http://www.buildmyled.com/solunar-controller/?page_context=category&faceted_search=0


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## HolyAngel (Oct 18, 2010)

Nice list! Thanks! I think the only thing you missed was PAR reading from all 4 fixtures  I know the satellite and eco series are out there, not sure at all on the aquaticlife..


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## Dmarksvr (Oct 25, 2013)

brooksie321 said:


> Nice post man!! Certainly needed to be done.. put "certain things" in perspective here..
> Each light (excluding the edge, not familiar) has its place, each light can/will be perfect for your specific build..


Thanks! ...And I totally agree :hihi:



xxfallacyxx said:


> On my car forums there are reputation point systems in place, at least a small symbol of cumulative thanks for appreciative forum-goers for your efforts. This is a fantastic list, thanks for the time involved in putting it together!


Thanks... I try. Ya Dendroboard and some others I'm on do that, kinda throws me off here. I keep going to hit the "Like" or "thanks" button... and it isn't there 



baumer1781 said:


> Have you looked at Build My LED? They have a controller and stats including PAR are on their page. http://www.buildmyled.com/solunar-controller/?page_context=category&faceted_search=0


Yes, haven't tried one yet but hope too. Also I don't think they ever added mention of it on the product page, but my understanding is that controller does have a storm mode. Mostly I didn't include it because it is a seperate light/controller instead of all in one, and I totally forgot about it :wink:

If anyone wants to add controller/light combos, and some of the higher end fixtures that have a built in controller by all means feel free. Can't think of a reason why this thread has to end with these 4 fixtures as long as it kinda goes with the theme of automated dawn/dusk/FX lightning :help:




HolyAngel said:


> Nice list! Thanks! I think the only thing you missed was PAR reading from all 4 fixtures  I know the satellite and eco series are out there, not sure at all on the aquaticlife..


Thanks/welcome and Good point! ...totally slipped my mind. I'll probably get around to adding it if no one else does, but if anyone wants to save me the trouble I won't be mad :icon_twis


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## Freemananana (Jan 2, 2015)

The Current SAT+ Pro with an arduino controller can do seamless dimming, transitions, random storm modes, and has adjustable intensity throughout. I think it is worth a mention. Not all light fixtures can adjust without blinking.


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## Dmarksvr (Oct 25, 2013)

Freemananana said:


> The Current SAT+ Pro with an arduino controller can do seamless dimming, transitions, random storm modes, and has adjustable intensity throughout. I think it is worth a mention. Not all light fixtures can adjust without blinking.


Ya I think they've got that arduino crossfader working with the original sat +, the pro, and the E-series now, so ya definately.

In fact this is one of those things that I will try to get around to if no one else does it, but if people would even just add links to threads about a specific fixture or automated dawn/dusk/FX lighting solutions like the arduino stuff that would be cool. Then people would have a good place to start if they were interested in this kinda stuff but didn't know what was out there.

I'm active on several forums, and do have a tendency towards long winded rambling highly detailed posts, so sometimes I get a little burned out/lazy and this thread may not become all it could be if you all just rely on me... Maybe eventually we'll hit sticky worthy status if some others pitch in :help: :hihi:


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## mattinmd (Aug 16, 2014)

Nice post...

One defining difference between the E series and the Sat+ Pro that you missed:

If you look at the spectrum graphs in the "complete specification" sheet of ecoxotic's website, the E series is using 660nm Red, and 420nm blues.. 

Your standard RGB's used by the Sat+, Sat+Pro and 24/7 are 620-630nm and 450-470nm ranges..

Thus the E-series is using its Red and blue channels to extend the spectrum produced by the white Leds some. This makes sense as the Ecoxotic is essentially the "Luxury" line by Current... They're separate companies, but ultimately have the same ownership... Think of it like Ford/Lincoln, or Honda/Acura or Toyota/Lexus.

Note that Current USA and Ecoxotic have the same headquarters address:
2640 Business Park Dr.
Vista, CA 92081


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## Dmarksvr (Oct 25, 2013)

mattinmd said:


> Nice post...
> 
> One defining difference between the E series and the Sat+ Pro that you missed:
> 
> ...


Awesome catch, and in general I compiled this info mostly from what was on product sales pages, or on the manufacturer's website for the product but didn't delve into all the PDF's (at least not recently, so there is potentially more info left out.)


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## mattinmd (Aug 16, 2014)

I suppose I should clarify.. the RGB leds of the Sat+ and Sat+Pro aren't specified... I'm making an assumption there..

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showpost.php?p=7800506&postcount=15

I know the 24/7 is using 620-630nm for the red.. Lowe confirmed that suspicion a while ago in the thread in the Finnex vendor area. I've also measured it myself with an inexpensive $5 plastic spectrometer.


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## Dmarksvr (Oct 25, 2013)

mattinmd said:


> I suppose I should clarify.. the RGB leds of the Sat+ and Sat+Pro aren't specified... I'm making an assumption there..
> 
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showpost.php?p=7800506&postcount=15
> 
> I know the 24/7 is using 620-630nm for the red.. Lowe confirmed that suspicion a while ago in the thread in the Finnex vendor area. I've also measured it myself with an inexpensive $5 plastic spectrometer.


My assumption is that your assumption, is a pretty safe assumption :hihi:

Ya I was kinda surprised Finnex didn't opt for the 660's in the 24/7, they put em in the stingray... Personally I'd like them, but I haven't really had problems growing plants with out them so... I'll live, (but I thought they might help with more flowering from my vivarium plants). 

The product comparison PDF on the PRO's website mentions 445nm and 455nm blues, but nothing about the reds that I saw...
http://current-usa.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Satellite-Comparison-V3.pdf

There is a spectra chart for the edge...








Based on those %'s my *guess* is it is not using true 660nm reds.

Oh here is Par and stat infographic for the E-series...









And PAR for sat+ PRO...








Credit to user Kman who posted it here...
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showpost.php?p=7319994&postcount=9

As for *PAR from the Aquaticlife Edge* this quote from another forum is all I have so far...

_*"so i just called and spoke to a rep there. he gave me the following specs.
first, my tank is a 125g. 72"wide 18" front to back and i believe 23"deep.
..
..
at 12" depth the par is 95-105, at 18" the par is 55-65. he did not have a rating for deeper than that. my actual water depth is probably closer to 20" when i subtract the rim thickness and the substrate depth.
i would say i have a good 40 par at 20"?
he also said at 16.5", the lumans are about 4240-4250."*_

(I'd credit the guy but I don't know if posting a user name/link from another fish forum is kosher here)
.........................................................................................

*If there is a PAR chart for the Finnex 24/7 I've forgotten where it is, but we have the Aquarium co-op's and Mattinmd's videos to give us some idea *


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

JUST to add to the list of controllable fixtures

REEFBREEDERS Photon
2 channels. Either request their fw spectrum or build to suit
Fans


DSunY with either the "old style" two channel control (ramps in 10% increments)
or the new 4 channel w/ "effects"
Freshwater spectrum or build to suit
Fans
China Direct

RADION XR15 Freshwater
Fans
And the only "commercial" freshwater w/ violet and UV chips..


> LEDs
> Optimized for Freshwater aquariums with 15 high-quality energy efficient LEDs covering the full light spectrum.
> 
> • Neutral White: 5
> ...



Kessil A360 or A160 Freshwater versions
Fans
6000k-9000k range

There are probably a dozen more off brands or overseas (europe,asia ect.)


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## rick dale (Feb 26, 2014)

*Suggestions*



Freemananana said:


> The Current SAT+ Pro with an arduino controller can do seamless dimming, transitions, random storm modes, and has adjustable intensity throughout. I think it is worth a mention. Not all light fixtures can adjust without blinking.


Freemannana. I totally agree with you. But , for some reason , people on this post don't want to hear any suggestions , if it is not in favor of the 24/7. I own a 48/60 sat plus pro. And I also own a finnex planted plus. I like both . as I stated earlier , the sat plus pro is seemless , proven , and available. Yes it costs more , but it does give people an option that are upset about delays on the 24/7. Oh well. What ever floats your boat.

PS. I've had my finnex planted plus for a year now , and have yet to find par on it. Maybe I'm missing it.


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## Freemananana (Jan 2, 2015)

The Planted+ has no official par and par readings for it are sort of hard to find. The 24/7 has a fair amount of par reading available. 

As for the 24/7 vs SAT+PRO, there is no comparison in my mind. It is like a variable speed drill and a regular drill. To the guy who has no experience with a variable speed drill, his regular drill gets the job done. It takes some finesse, but it was half the cost so he sees no reason to buy the variable speed drill. 

That was a killer analogy; I'm proud of it. 

As for the Arduino programming:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=391265&highlight=arduino

Until someone releases the IR codes, you can find them yourself with a cheap receiver and backwards engineering. It is ALL in that thread. That should be enough for anyone to start an arduino project and finish it on ANY light system that utilizes LEDs and IR codes.


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## dru (Mar 9, 2013)

The amount of RED leds and the spectral graph on that aquatic life fixture is disappointing


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## mattinmd (Aug 16, 2014)

Dmarksvr said:


> There is a spectra chart for the edge...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Based on that chart, it is *very* obvious they are using common 620-630nm reds, not 660... That's not really surprising, normal red LEDs are 620-630, so this should be your assumption anytime something says it has red LEDs, unless they specify otherwise.

I've not found anything claiming the Aquaticlife is using 660nm red, just that they have red LEDs...

edit:
As for the low red percentage, look at the LED distribution.. there's a LOT of 10k and 9K LEDs in their mix, and those two account for more than half the total..

For the 24" model:
(13) 6K White, (14) 9K White, (17) 10K White, (3) Blue, (7) Red, (3) Blue Lunar

That's 
37 - very blue centric LEDS (10k, 9k, blue, and lunar blue)
13 - 6k (which is arguably still blue centric, but not quite as strongly as 10k/9k)
7 - red.


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## dru (Mar 9, 2013)

The 24/7 was a innovative idea but I feel like it missed the mark

All I really want in an LED fixture is first and foremost the ability to grow almost any plant with proper peaks for plant response. It should have a dimmer, a built in timer with a 15 min ramp up/down and a separate channel for a moonlight (dim white/shimmer - not blue). I don't need gimmicky storms or anything else. Also, it should be packaged in a sleek fixture and cost around $100

How long am I going to have to wait?


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## mattinmd (Aug 16, 2014)

Unless you mean a clip light? 3-5 years? Your guess is as good as mine really, but right now that combination isn't achievable at the price you are asking for. Leaving out the gimmicks like storms doesn't make the fixture cheaper. Once you can do a digitally controlled ramp, you can do a storm with 5 extra minutes of programmer time and a single extra button on the remote. Ok, maybe it brings the price down $1. But the fixtures that have 660's and are custom timered are at around $200. You need the cost to come down by $100.


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## Dmarksvr (Oct 25, 2013)

rick dale said:


> Freemannana. I totally agree with you. But , for some reason , people on this post don't want to hear any suggestions , if it is not in favor of the 24/7. I own a 48/60 sat plus pro. And I also own a finnex planted plus. I like both . as I stated earlier , the sat plus pro is seemless , proven , and available. Yes it costs more , but it does give people an option that are upset about delays on the 24/7. Oh well. What ever floats your boat.
> 
> PS. I've had my finnex planted plus for a year now , and have yet to find par on it. Maybe I'm missing it.


On the contrary, it is a great suggestion, and I hope people contribute more such suggestions. I very much wanna try the Sat+PRO and other lights. I just personally thought that you were being a bit dismissive of the cost difference for somewhat similar feature set and power, (and thus niche this will probably fill for many people). If lighting multiple tanks that is likely to be an even more significant consideration. 



Freemananana said:


> The Planted+ has no official par and par readings for it are sort of hard to find. The 24/7 has a fair amount of par reading available.
> 
> As for the 24/7 vs SAT+PRO, there is no comparison in my mind. It is like a variable speed drill and a regular drill. To the guy who has no experience with a variable speed drill, his regular drill gets the job done. It takes some finesse, but it was half the cost so he sees no reason to buy the variable speed drill.
> 
> ...


It is a good analogy, and a valid point. It wouldn't surprise me if you see some people use both on any tank they aren't sure an Edge, sat+pro or E-series will light adequately alone. I think the colored dawn/dusk of the 24/7 would compliment the more traditional style of the others. I ran both my 24/7's on slightly different timed demo mode, and I like how the one on full blast blended with the one still in dawn/dusk mode, and then the full blast period overlapped, kinda best of both worlds IMHO. I think it would actually be even better with the combination of 24/7 and another fixture with a more traditional style ramp up/down. 

On some smaller tanks though an edge, sat+pro/E-series would probably be overkill. You might have to change the intensity wasting half the power of the fixture. The 24/7 will probably fill that niche for a lot of people, especially if they don't wanna mess with an arduino build for the original sat +.

I think arduino is still a bit intimidating for many people, (and it does add some costs), Then again if you are up for it can basically be the perfect solution in many cases. I do think I'm going to give this project a shot; seems like a good way to get my feet wet in that world...

(Lego style? Crossfader for popular IR controlled LED fixtures)
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=783426



mattinmd said:


> Based on that chart, it is *very* obvious they are using common 620-630nm reds, not 660... That's not really surprising, normal red LEDs are 620-630, so this should be your assumption anytime something says it has red LEDs, unless they specify otherwise.
> 
> I've not found anything claiming the Aquaticlife is using 660nm red, just that they have red LEDs...
> 
> ...


Ya I didn't see anything about 660nm either. I think most will probably make a point of advertising that if they've got it.

Here is the graph off the Finnex 24/7 box...









*Compared to the Edge...*









Looks fairly similar; I'm not sure if the difference is because of scale or precision in the making of the graphs or if it actually significantly different. Given the thickness of the lowest parts of Edge's graph at the bottom vs box size/# of boxes, I'm wondering if they may have used a bit different scaling and that overall in actuality the light might be similar? There does seem to be a difference in blue spike and dip between blue/green that might be significant enough to make them noticeably different in real world use.

Speaking from vivarium experience (and as a male with full colorvision), I can very much tell the difference even between 5500k, 6500k-7000+K, especially when I've had a mix of bulbs on a vivarium and/or another vivarium next to it. All things being equal (nothing to balance it out), I think 8000K would be about the most I could tolerate over a vivarium, (or a freshwater aquarium). The average freshwater aquarist may have a bit more tolerance for a light that is more red or blue, but personally from the videos or vivs I've seen in person; have very little tolerance for anything approaching the 10000k+ range.

I found the chromaticity chart for the Edge, and while I have very little experience looking at this kinda chart and comparing it to real life, it does seem to support your contention of a blue skewed light...










Looking at the videos again, spectrum graphs, and other lights I've seen; my gut says that it's full daylight mode will still be (perhaps surprisingly) similar to the full daylight of the finnex 24/7, but I really don't know. That chromaticity graph does have me a bit worried. My personal experience is mostly in using 6500k(ish) lights to offset lower Kelvin lights.

I did just reach a settlement agreement with the insurance of the drunk who hit me last June, so when that check gets here I think I'll probably buy at least one Edge, one Sat+PRO, and probably an E-series since I have plenty of vivariums I'd like to upgrade to LED lighting. So I'll report back if/when that happens :hihi:



dru said:


> The 24/7 was a innovative idea but I feel like it missed the mark
> 
> All I really want in an LED fixture is first and foremost the ability to grow almost any plant with proper peaks for plant response. It should have a dimmer, a built in timer with a 15 min ramp up/down and a separate channel for a moonlight (dim white/shimmer - not blue). I don't need gimmicky storms or anything else. Also, it should be packaged in a sleek fixture and cost around $100
> 
> How long am I going to have to wait?


I think the price, power, feature set will see it as a success. I think the more hard core forum person is maybe underestimating the niche this fills for many people, but this is an educated guess at best. I don't know if Finnex has the market exposure that it will find the people most likely to buy it and in enough numbers to justify its development, but seems like they could produce a revised version pretty easily.

I personally like it, but if I were to redesign it... 
In part because the power is a bit less then a pro/E-series, I'd cut the dawn/dusk ramp almost in half extending the midday photoperiod. I'd also try to dim the earlier night time moonlights brightness more. The period from around midnight-till the dim blue moonlight kicks on seems to be overly bright to me. The late night moonlight is IMHO perfect, but the dawn/dusk period is dimmer longer then I'd like. I basically want my viewing window of brighter light to be longer during the day, and for them to make the first half of the night period dimmer.

For the price/power though It is hard to complain. But if this version of the light isn't as popular as they hope, I think all the puzzle pieces are in place that they could relaunch a more conservative version that favors a faster ramp up/down and dim blue moon light. A slight change to the code and you basically have a brand new light ready sell it would seem.

They may have gone a little for trying to be all things for all people, but I really do applaud them for taking a risk and releasing something fairly unlike anything else out there and at a very affordable price. 

If anyone cares what my personal lighting design philosophy would be, it is this...
Make the day time over powered, especially if the intensity is adjustable because you can easily add diffusing materials to lower intensity if need be. Error on the side caution and make the moonlight dim, because you can easily add another moonlight on timer to kick on that won't be very noticeable while the lights are on full blast, but brightens the nighttime period. 

*On a side note:*
I plan to add some storm audio and sound responsive lighting to simulate storms a long with a 133+ mode IC 6803 dreamcolor LED strip to simulate rolling (moving) cloud cover FX on some of my display tanks, so the presets are going to be mute point in most cases for me too.



mattinmd said:


> Unless you mean a clip light? 3-5 years? Your guess is as good as mine really, but right now that combination isn't achievable at the price you are asking for. Leaving out the gimmicks like storms doesn't make the fixture cheaper. Once you can do a digitally controlled ramp, you can do a storm with 5 extra minutes of programmer time and a single extra button on the remote. Ok, maybe it brings the price down $1. But the fixtures that have 660's and are custom timered are at around $200. You need the cost to come down by $100.


You think so? The stingray has them. Is there a significant cost/technical barrier to cohabitating 660's with other leds and/or adding the ramp function? Basically how hard would it be to add a ramp to something like the stingray, (seriously 0 argument or sarcasm, I have no idea)?

It does seem that most (and thus probably cheaper) RGB options are still stuck in the lower NM red range.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*In other news...*

My 2nd 24/7 came today, the 30" I've been waiting for. It is a bit long for the 30gal oceanic cube (snagged from the petco $1 gal sale before they wised up!) the 20" is on, but I put on there all the same to play with running 2 lights in the 24/7 mode.

I ran them in demo mode, and I do think for the most part they complement each other and running 2+ will be a viable option for tanks that are wider front to back then some of the standard aquarium sizes that a single strip might not give good coverage on. A 40b might be an odd tank to light though given how short they are compared to front/back depth. 

The complaint about the earlier night moon light period being to bright is still there, but the brighter overall ramp up/down I think makes the normal viewing period more enjoyable. The very dim late night blue moonlight is still dim enough for my taste even with 2 lights. I don't know how everyone else feels, but I personally think that many fixtures make the blue moonlights to bright. I'll try to post a vid if/when I get the area around the viv cleaned up, and spruce the viv up a little.


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## mattinmd (Aug 16, 2014)

Dmarksvr said:


> *Compared to the Edge...*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'd say they're fairly similar... it looks like at least some of the blue/white LEDS in the edge are 450nm based, while others are 470nm based. The 24/7 appears to have 450nm based whites and 450nm blue in its RGB, resulting in a narrower blue-side spike...

That said, at least with the 24/7 you can sacrifice brightness to adjust the color balance yourself.. It has 4 dimmer channels, white, red, green and blue. So, you can always do 100% white, 100% red and use the 24/7 as a fixed light.. You are sacrificing the time-of-day features of 24/7 mode, but it is possible if you really end up hating the color balance... 

I've always kinda viewed the 24/7 as a "two different fixtures in one" kinda product.. one with a limited 24/7 mode, and one with customizable color balance... 

The aquaticlife appears to have 3 channels - all the whites, the Red&Blue, and the Lunar lights...

In theory you could adjust the color temperature some by shutting down the lunar blues... but you can't really adjust the reds independent of the rest of the blue LEDs... So, this somewhat limits how much you can affect the overall color temperature...


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## Freemananana (Jan 2, 2015)

I do plan on using a Ray2 and 24/7 combo in the future. The 24/7 would be purely for the cosmetic sunrise and sunset mode. The par would be cast aside. I was tempted to build an arduino controller for RGB LED strips to make a light for this purpose only, but it would cost a good portion of what a 24/7 costs and require way more DIY. 

I think the SAT+ Pro alone is the best single light you can buy out of all of these. The par is through the roof and it comes with a built in ramp timer. 

I would be interested in a stingray priced light that puts out low par with a 24/7 gimmick mode. That way I could ignore the par output on a deep tank, but still get the enjoyment out of it as a viewing light. Then place more powerful, traditional, LED lights on mechanical timers to run for 6-8 hours.


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## mattinmd (Aug 16, 2014)

Dmarksvr said:


> *Newest version of this light includes a battery backup which is an important feature, and I'm unsure how the other lights mentioned in this thread handle power outages.
> *


I just noticed this bit in the first post...

I can tell you the 24/7 does not have a battery, and what the 24/7 appears to do:

If it was in 24/7 mode, it goes to "6am" light level/color. I have not tested to see if it stays there or if it proceeds through the 24/7 cycle from there.

If it was at any fixed-light setting, it goes back to that same setting. (ie: if you had it in "M1" it will go back to your "M1" setting.. ditto for Max, cloudy, etc. 

I assume storm behaves like the fixed settings, but I haven't tried it.


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

Forgive me for I have found myself lost in this thread.
What is the difference between the Satellite plus pro model and the satellite led model minus the word's pro or plus?
Aquacave lists a Current satellite LED 48 60 with some of the same features as the satellite pro model but for considerably less $$.
Am looking for a led fixture for low tech 80 gal tank approx. 22 inches to the substrate.
not really interested in paying three or four hundred dollar's for a light which I can only run at 50 to 60 % and for $90.00,I'm thinking the current satellite LED fixture ,maybe old model? ,might be what I am looking for.
Otherwise.I'm just gonna stick with my T5 fixture which I must hang nearly ten inches above the tank to prevent algae.
Just looking for something I can sit on the rim of the tank much like my old CFL fixture which finally shot craps.
Many thanks in advance for suggestions from those maybe with similar need's and not so deep pocket's.


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## Freemananana (Jan 2, 2015)

Satellite Freshwater LED has a low par output and has white/blue LEDs.
Satellite Freshwater LED Plus has medium par output and white/RGB LEDs.
Satellite Freshwater LED Plus PRO has high par output, white/RGB LEDs, built in timer, ramp functionality and dimming capabilities.

22" would be fair game for the SAT+ model. It will give you 20-30 par at the substrate and good color spectrum. The non+ model will give you dismal light. The PRO model will give you medium light and require CO2.

SAT+ is my vote. Also consider a Finnex Planted+ for the price range and output. Note that the SAT+ can be 'dimmed' by pressing down on the black buttons on the remote. The Planted+ will require you to raise it to dim it.

Check out Current's website.

http://current-usa.com/aquarium-led-lights/satellite-led-fixtures/

They have plenty of information on features and relative par.

http://current-usa.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Satellite-Comparison-V3.pdf


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

Freemananana said:


> Satellite Freshwater LED has a low par output and has white/blue LEDs.
> Satellite Freshwater LED Plus has medium par output and white/RGB LEDs.
> Satellite Freshwater LED Plus PRO has high par output, white/RGB LEDs, built in timer, ramp functionality and dimming capabilities.
> 
> ...


 Precisely the info I was looking/hoping for.
Thank you.


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## Dmarksvr (Oct 25, 2013)

mattinmd said:


> I'd say they're fairly similar... it looks like at least some of the blue/white LEDS in the edge are 450nm based, while others are 470nm based. The 24/7 appears to have 450nm based whites and 450nm blue in its RGB, resulting in a narrower blue-side spike...
> 
> That said, at least with the 24/7 you can sacrifice brightness to adjust the color balance yourself.. It has 4 dimmer channels, white, red, green and blue. So, you can always do 100% white, 100% red and use the 24/7 as a fixed light.. You are sacrificing the time-of-day features of 24/7 mode, but it is possible if you really end up hating the color balance...
> 
> ...


I rewatched the vids (again), and they talk about setting the 3 banks of LED's timers individually, and in the amazon reviews it seems like some people are talking like you can basically choose not to run one of the banks to manipulate the spectrum??? So It looks like you set the duration of each bank, so 3 timers basically... then you set the length of the ramp time separately and it is applied to whatever banks are on???... I'm not entirely 100% on this though. 



roadmaster said:


> Precisely the info I was looking/hoping for.
> Thank you.


Free covered the question nicely, but I just wanted to mention since not everyone knows...

That there are the arduino mods that add automation to the original sat+ that it lacks compared to the 4 this thread focuses on, and also as long as you stick to one of the preset colors the currentusa ramp timers will supposedly at least give you the automated ramp function, even though current changed the website info to say they aren't compatible. 

Several people on here have them working with the original sat+ so you don't have to push the button everytime you wanna see a sunrise/sunset effect, but ya basically the automation and power difference are the biggest differences between the original sat+ compared to the pro, e-series, and finnex 24/7 (though the 24/7 is less powerful then the pro or E-series).

The Finnex 24/7 is the cheapest *automated* fixture right out of the box that I'm aware of, with probably the Edge next, the Sat+PRO 3rd, and the E-series 4th and most expensive of the four we've focused on. The lack of automation on the original Sat+ (unless you add arduino or ramp timer) rules it out for me personally, but not everyone cares about the automation (they're crazy!)


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

Well,I have sprung for the satellite LED + and await it's arrival 6/11/15
After reading info on PAR on CURRENT'S website, and re-measuring my tank's distance from rim to substrate, I will have around 35 PAR at eighteen inches and this will suit my needs for the low tech 80 gal I plan on placing it on.


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## Jcstank (Jan 3, 2015)

roadmaster said:


> Well,I have sprung for the satellite LED + and await it's arrival 6/11/15
> After reading info on PAR on CURRENT'S website, and re-measuring my tank's distance from rim to substrate, I will have around 35 PAR at eighteen inches and this will suit my needs for the low tech 80 gal I plan on placing it on.


There website states PAR is 35+ @ 12' not 18"? This is why I didn't buy this fixture because the PAR is too low for my tank at 20". Where did you ge that info?


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

Jcstank said:


> There website states PAR is 35+ @ 12' not 18"? This is why I didn't buy this fixture because the PAR is too low for my tank at 20". Where did you ge that info?


 Appear's I miss read.
The PAR values on CURRENT's website come across the screen on my computer sideway's and after checking once again,you are correct.
In any event,it will be just about right for my tank.(80 gal)
Plant's are all low light crypt's,anubia,lace java fern,water sprite, with exception of some Ludwigia Repen's planted along the back glass which reaches the surface about every three week's after trimming back six or seven inches. 
The four T5 bulbs 54 watt at eight hours, even at ten inches above the surface have begun to cause physical damage to the anubia some of which has also grown to the surface from the wood I attached them two a couple year's back.
I am in hopes the ludwigia will still hold some red coloring nearer the surface and maybe give the anubia a break without goin back to T8 or the CFL bulbs .


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## strangewaters (May 13, 2015)

dru said:


> The 24/7 was a innovative idea but I feel like it missed the mark
> 
> All I really want in an LED fixture is first and foremost the ability to grow almost any plant with proper peaks for plant response. It should have a dimmer, a built in timer with a 15 min ramp up/down and a separate channel for a moonlight (dim white/shimmer - not blue). I don't need gimmicky storms or anything else. Also, it should be packaged in a sleek fixture and cost around $100
> 
> How long am I going to have to wait?


im with you one this. i bought an led and someone told me its probably on the low end of low light smh. i jsut dont have 200 to throw towards a light right now. i have a 1 year old daughter 

Bump:


mattinmd said:


> Unless you mean a clip light? 3-5 years? Your guess is as good as mine really, but right now that combination isn't achievable at the price you are asking for. Leaving out the gimmicks like storms doesn't make the fixture cheaper. Once you can do a digitally controlled ramp, you can do a storm with 5 extra minutes of programmer time and a single extra button on the remote. Ok, maybe it brings the price down $1. But the fixtures that have 660's and are custom timered are at around $200. You need the cost to come down by $100.


what kind of clip lights are you talking about? i need more light than what the led i bought is giving.


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## mattinmd (Aug 16, 2014)

strangewaters said:


> i
> what kind of clip lights are you talking about? i need more light than what the led i bought is giving.



I was responding to Dru's desire for a light with:
-built-in timer with custom schedule, custom intensity and ramps
-moonlight built in
- less than $100


I'm not aware of any specific clip-lights that do all that, I'm just saying someone could in theory implement a "Sat+ Pro clip" for less than $100 and have all the features Dru is asking for.

I'm sorry, but I really don't think you're going to have a full-tank sized light with decent intensity, high customization and sub-$100 cost anytime terribly soon. Maybe a year or 2, but my guess is more like 3-5, but I freely admit that is wild guesswork..

There's a reason the 24/7 has the price Dru wants... it doesn't have the hardware to support the features Dru wants... The 24/7 doesn't even have an internal realtime clock, ie: it can't tell time... It just happens to have a program that was tailored to run for exactly 24 hours before starting over, and the ability to jump into that sequence at 3 hour increments.

There's a reason the Sat+ Pro has the features Dru wants... it costs more than Dru wants to spend, because it has more hardware on board to do things like tell time.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

mattinmd said:


> I was responding to Dru's desire for a light with:
> -built-in timer with custom schedule, custom intensity and ramps
> -moonlight built in
> - less than $100


you could do it w/ some 5630 and 5050 strips..
Salvaged computer power supply, $30 4 channel ramp timer and $15x (2,3,4) 5m strip reels..


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## Dmarksvr (Oct 25, 2013)

jeffkrol said:


> you could do it w/ some 5630 and 5050 strips..
> Salvaged computer power supply, $30 4 channel ramp timer and $15x (2,3,4) 5m strip reels..


Are you talking about the tc420 Jeff? Or is there another cheap 4 channel ramp I've missed?

My tc420 is still in the box. I really need to do something with it eventually


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Dmarksvr said:


> Are you talking about the tc420 Jeff? Or is there another cheap 4 channel ramp I've missed?
> 
> My tc420 is still in the box. I really need to do something with it eventually


Well $30-ish.. They used to be cheaper on "thebay"..
http://www.dx.com/en/p/tc420-1-4-le...gclid=CKT189DFhsYCFZGLaQodN7wA7w#.VXjrl7GrPO8

$18 for 5m RGBW(your choice of w, ww,cw)
Throw in 5M of 5630's for "punch"... 

$35.71 for the controller on the bay....Leaves $64.29 for the rest...
3W Led's are usually no more than $.50 each for the bay's "bridgrelux" or clones..
5 0f these in series, 1 Ohm 1/4W resistor will run fine at 12V
321088886684


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## mattinmd (Aug 16, 2014)

jeffkrol said:


> you could do it w/ some 5630 and 5050 strips..
> Salvaged computer power supply, $30 4 channel ramp timer and $15x (2,3,4) 5m strip reels..


Fair, although I was excluding DIY, as one thing I left out of summarizing dru's list is:



> Also, it should be packaged in a sleek fixture


I took that to imply we were looking for a reasonably well finished commercial fixture... (not to say that you can't make a DIY well finished).


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## Freemananana (Jan 2, 2015)

Lighting is just like anything in this hobby, a stand for example. You can go way overboard on a DIY stand and still come under budget of a commercial unit. Of the commercial units, usually the more expensive units and more well built and look better.

Lighting is the most expensive piece of planted tank equipment.


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