# My CO2 working pressure fluctuation. Normal or user error?



## Apisto (Mar 21, 2004)

Fist I want to thank those who read this request for assistance, and also thank those who offer assistance. I know there are a lot of pressurized CO2 questions on this forum, and it may get a little tiring.

I recently set up my new (to me) dual stage pressurized CO2 system, and am experiencing working pressure fluctuations. I am hoping to come to understand the cause, find out if it is a reason for concern, and if I should be doing things in a different way. At the end of the message is a picture of the set up. Following the first part of bettatail's instructions, I confirmed there is no leak at the regulator-tank connection. I have the solenoid set to go on and off in concert with the tank lights. There is no pH controller.

I initially set the working pressure to 20 PSI. The tank pressure read as 825 PSI.

After being on for a while (a few hours?), the PSI readings creep to about 16-18 and 875 PSI respectively.

Once the solenoid goes off for the night, the working pressure rises to 30 PSI within 15 minutes or less. The tank pressure reading will slowly lower over night, going back to 825 PSI at some point over night.

I have done some reading trying to understand what is causing this behavior. The solenoid is not generating noticeable heat. It feels room temperature to the touch even after being open/energized for hours. The ambient temperature fluctuates less than 5 degrees Fahrenheit over a 24 hour period. Just off screen in the below picture is a check valve, and the clear tubing allows me to confirm that no fluid has been backing up.

Please instruct/advise me.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

What you are experiencing is fairly normal for an older regulator. It's basically starting to show its age. As long as it's not rising more than 10psi when the solenoid is off, you should be ok.


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## Apisto (Mar 21, 2004)

Thank you for the reply. Is it reasonable for me to expect the regulator to still have 10 years or more of useful life, or is that overly optimistic?


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

Maybe. We're not very hard on these things. You never know. That regulator might already have 20 years of use on it so it's hard to make assumptions. It's certainly something that can be rebuilt though.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Apisto said:


> I initially set the working pressure to 20 PSI. The tank pressure read as 825 PSI.
> 
> After being on for a while (a few hours?), the PSI readings creep to about 16-18 and 875 PSI respectively.


Tank pressure will fluctuate w/ air temp. AFAICT the high pressure gauge is directly fed from the tank. Reg. has nothing to do w/ it really.

a 2 stage reg will drop the tank pressure down to a few 100psi or so. From there the second stage drops it to working pressure...



> I initially set the working pressure to 20 PSI.
> After being on for a while (a few hours?), the PSI readings creep to about 16-18 and 875 PSI respectively.
> Once the solenoid goes off for the night, the working pressure rises to 30 PSI within 15 minutes or less.


"Normal" maybe but sure annoying..That is a 10psi swing..


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## loach guy (Jun 2, 2014)

This setup is working exactly the way it's supposed to be working the way it's set up. You need to remember that regulator gauges measure the pressure coming out of the regulator. So when your system is running, and your solenoid is open, then your system only requires 16-18 PSI to get CO2 into your tank. However, when your system is off, then the CO2 has nowhere to go, so pressure builds up to what the regulator is actually set at. You could back off your regulator a little if it made you feel better, but it's nothing to worry about at 30 PSI.

As far as your tank pressure gauge, you are just getting creep. It's not enough to worry about, but you might want to look at things quickly. Like when your lights are on, is the light heating the CO2 tank? Again, it's not going up enough to be a major concern, but it seems like something is heating that tank.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

loach guy said:


> This setup is working exactly the way it's supposed to be working the way it's set up. You need to remember that regulator gauges measure the pressure coming out of the regulator. So when your system is running, and your solenoid is open, then your system only requires 16-18 PSI to get CO2 into your tank. However, when your system is off, then the CO2 has nowhere to go, so pressure builds up to what the regulator is actually set at. You could back off your regulator a little if it made you feel better, but it's nothing to worry about at 30 PSI.
> 
> As far as your tank pressure gauge, you are just getting creep. It's not enough to worry about, but you might want to look at things quickly. Like when your lights are on, is the light heating the CO2 tank? Again, it's not going up enough to be a major concern, but it seems like something is heating that tank.


A regulator by it's very name regulates the pressure. Not just "somewhere in the neighborhood".. What the OP sees is not "normal" in any manner I can see...Especially for a quality regulator..

See pg 5 and 6.
applies to most regulators..
http://victortechnologies.com/IM_Up...ib_2310_56-0623 VTS 250 Series Regulators.pdf


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## loach guy (Jun 2, 2014)

jeffkrol said:


> A regulator by it's very name regulates the pressure. Not just "somewhere in the neighborhood".. What the OP sees is not "normal" in any manner I can see...Especially for a quality regulator..
> 
> See pg 5 and 6.
> applies to most regulators..
> http://victortechnologies.com/IM_Up...ib_2310_56-0623 VTS 250 Series Regulators.pdf


You should really learn how a regulator works before shooting down someone's post.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

loach guy said:


> You should really learn how a regulator works before shooting down someone's post.


I wasn't shooting down you entire post.. 
Tell me what you disagree with..
I'll go look in the back at the 5 running regulators in the back here as well as my 2 at home.

What the o/p posted is unacceptable error to me.. Slight variation in output is acceptable. Unable to mantain a set point (30psi in this case as shown by resting pressure) is NOT right.. 

I'm certainly willing to change my position.. but.... show me... 



> I initially set the working pressure to 20 PSI.
> After being on for a while (a few hours?), the PSI readings creep to about 16-18
> Once the solenoid goes off for the night, the working pressure rises to 30 PSI


Not normal.. I stand by that..for now.
Plenty of data for both positions.. 
http://www.beswick.com/basics-pressure-regulators


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## lksdrinker (Feb 12, 2014)

I'm certainly no expert when it comes to c02 and recently got my first pressurized setup running well with a manifold splitting to 4 different lines. But I think I'm going to have to agree with jeffkrol on this one. 

I would assume something is wrong with your setup if you're seeing that drastic of a change. I see 0 fluctuations on my high pressure or low pressure gauge and would be concerned if those moved at all. I set my working pressure to about 30 psi and that is where it stays as I would expect it to. The high pressure side shows a bit above 800 psi and again that is where it stays. The only reason the high pressure side should change is if there is an ambient temperature change and/of if tank is running close to empty. I'm not sure of the specifics, but think you'd need at least a 10 degree rise/drop in temperature to see a change in the co2 pressure and even then I would assume a minimal change in pressure at best.

You mentioned checking the regulator to tank connection for leaks. What about the various other connections/fittings. Are you 100% positive there is no leak anywhere in the system? 

As odd as it is for me to comprehend I guess the high pressure change could be attributed to a change in temp. But I would want/expect to see the working pressure remain absolutely constant unless you physically change it via the regulator. Which is exactly what I've encountered in my short time using co2. Maybe I'm lucky and didnt realize I have a great system that holds pressure correctly. 

To me (quite the layman) the purpose of a regulator is to, just as the name implies, regulate the output. If you set it to 30 psi that is where is should stay regardless of whether the solenoid is open or closed. I think its logical to equate it to the volume on your tv or stereo. If you crank it up to 11 thats where its going to stay, even if the situation doesn't necessarily call for it being that loud.


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## loach guy (Jun 2, 2014)

A regulator only limits the amount of pressure available downstream. The regulator is set at 30 PSI. I know this because the solenoid is after the regulator when I have typically seen the regulator after the solenoid. So this is what the full head pressure is. The system the OP is running only requires 16-18 PSI to run. I am unsure as to how the OP set the working pressure, but it seems like it was set while the solenoid was open. If that is the not the case, then I will agree with you that something is wrong. Either a worn out spring or some slip-stick in the seal(s).


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## Beefy (Mar 6, 2015)

loach guy said:


> A regulator only limits the amount of pressure available downstream. The regulator is set at 30 PSI. I know this because the solenoid is after the regulator when I have typically seen the regulator after the solenoid. So this is what the full head pressure is. The system the OP is running only requires 16-18 PSI to run


Try looking at it from the other perspective...... I would say that the pressure drop from 30 to 16 PSI while gas is flowing is too high. A properly functioning regulator can maintain close to constant pressure even at very high flow rates.


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## loach guy (Jun 2, 2014)

Beefy said:


> Try looking at it from the other perspective...... I would say that the pressure drop from 30 to 16 PSI while gas is flowing is too high. A properly functioning regulator can maintain close to constant pressure even at very high flow rates.


Don't confuse pressure with flow. They are 2 completely different things. I can dial a regulator up to 100PSI, but if I open a ball valve and release that pressure to air, then the gauge on the outlet side of the regulator will drop to zero. Working pressure will only be as high as it needs to be. The only pressure being generated in our CO2 systems comes from our flow control valves, check valves, and overcoming water pressure.


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## lksdrinker (Feb 12, 2014)

loach guy said:


> A regulator only limits the amount of pressure available downstream. The regulator is set at 30 PSI. I know this because the solenoid is after the regulator when I have typically seen the regulator after the solenoid. So this is what the full head pressure is. The system the OP is running only requires 16-18 PSI to run. I am unsure as to how the OP set the working pressure, but it seems like it was set while the solenoid was open. If that is the not the case, then I will agree with you that something is wrong. Either a worn out spring or some slip-stick in the seal(s).


I've never thought about the difference between the solenoid being before or after the regulator; as I assumed that was always done the same way. I suppose having the solenoid after the regulator might cause that drop but still seems like something isn't right.

I can understand why you're saying the op's system only requires 16-18 psi to run (since that is what the gauge shows); but what is it specifically that only requires that particular pressure? if you had the co2 line out of the tank (and not under water) would/should that pressure change compared to if the line was in/under water? What about its depth in a tank; would the system require more pressure if it was in deeper water? 

Also, if thats the case then wouldnt the working pressure gauge drop to that psi immediately after the solenoid opens and not hours later like the OP stated?


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

lksdrinker said:


> I've never thought about the difference between the solenoid being before or after the regulator; as I assumed that was always done the same way. I suppose having the solenoid after the regulator might cause that drop but still seems like something isn't right.
> 
> I can understand why you're saying the op's system only requires 16-18 psi to run (since that is what the gauge shows); but what is it specifically that only requires that particular pressure? if you had the co2 line out of the tank (and not under water) would/should that pressure change compared to if the line was in/under water? What about its depth in a tank; would the system require more pressure if it was in deeper water?
> 
> Also, if thats the case then wouldnt the working pressure gauge drop to that psi immediately after the solenoid opens and not hours later like the OP stated?


The gauge is on the low pressure chamber. Once the chamber is charged to it's set point it should stay at it's set point unless the tank valve is shut. Even then it will have to bleed out the 200psi-ish in the first stage (assuming a 2 stage reg)Makes no difference what the pressure is "downstream".. It should be the same.. 
The high pressure side is high enough to maintain pressure in the chamber regardless of any "restrictions" downstream..
using the "restriction logic" would mean that when you shut off the solenoid the gauge would drop to zero. It doesn't, or shouldn't.. i.e no demand is equiv. to low demand.

IF and that is a big IF the system actually restricts output to 16psi, you would need a gauge on the output to see that..not on the regulator as designed.
Stick a pressure gauge on the end of a hose so to speak.

considering the high pressure before the reg. few would put one there.


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## loach guy (Jun 2, 2014)

jeffkrol said:


> The gauge is on the low pressure chamber. Once the chamber is charged to it's set point it should stay at it's set point unless the tank valve is shut. Even then it will have to bleed out the 200psi-ish in the first stage (assuming a 2 stage reg)Makes no difference what the pressure is "downstream".. It should be the same..
> The high pressure side is high enough to maintain pressure in the chamber regardless of any "restrictions" downstream..
> using the "restriction logic" would mean that when you shut off the solenoid the gauge would drop to zero. It doesn't, or shouldn't.. i.e no demand is equiv. to low demand.
> 
> ...


The gauge is connected to the outlet of the low pressure side of the regulator, and on this particular set-up, the solenoid is after the regulator. A regulator cannot manifest pressure. If there was nothing at the outlet of a regulator, then you would have a gauge at the end of a hose and the regulator would read zero (or very close to it). I'm not sure what you're trying to say with the rest of that as it does not pertain to how a regulator and pneumatics work.


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## AlanLe (Jan 10, 2013)

Your regulator is showing sign of old age (internal leak). I had 2 regulators like this. I was able to return one and trashed the other. 


Source: http://www.harrisproductsgroup.com/en/Expert-Advice/Articles/Regulator-Life-Expectancy.aspx

*Typical Modes Of Failure*

Failure of internal components generally results in leakage of the regulated gas to the atmosphere. There are no outward indications that failure of a major component is about to occur. In regulators, there are usually two areas of concern. The first is gas leakage to the atmosphere from the external ports or from the diaphragm. Leakage from the ports is rare unless factory fittings or gauges have been changed or torque settings are lower than recommended. Leakage can also occur if port threads have been damaged due to changing connections.

Diaphragms are flexible, dynamic components that move axially as gas flows and pressures fluctuate through the regulator. When a diaphragm is pressurized and then relaxed, that constitutes one (1) sequence or cycle. According to the Compressed Gas Association Pamphlet E-4, diaphragms must have a minimum life of 25,000 cycles if made from an elastomer and 10,000 cycles if made from a metallic material (usually stainless steel). Leakage from the diaphragm can occur if it has exceeded its normal life. This is generally a greater problem for metal diaphragms than for elastomeric diaphragms. Excessive flexing of the metal diaphragm can cause a radial crack, which allows gas to escape to the atmosphere through the vent hole in the bonnet.

The second and perhaps the most common type of regulator failure is the internal leak, sometimes called creep or crawl. This can occur when the seat becomes damaged or displaced due to a foreign particle such as a metal chip or other material. When the seat cannot close completely, delivery pressure will not be maintained and regulator pressure cannot reach a state of equilibrium. Downstream or delivery pressure will continue to climb until the safety relief mechanism on the regulator is activated (usually a relief valve or a diaphragm burst hole). Checking for this type of failure is relatively easy if the device has a gauge that reads regulated pressure. The gauge pressure will start to rise above the set point and continue upward. This creates a potentially hazardous condition where any downstream equipment would be subjected to pressures beyond the rated limit. Regulators should be visually checked for this type of failure often.

- See more at: http://www.harrisproductsgroup.com/...tor-Life-Expectancy.aspx#sthash.iSkBNcSN.dpuf


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

loach guy said:


> . A regulator cannot manifest pressure.


sure as heck can....
That is just too wrong to discuss..

Bump:


AlanLe said:


> . This creates a potentially hazardous condition where any downstream equipment would be subjected to pressures beyond the rated limit. Regulators should be visually checked for this type of failure often.
> 
> http://www.harrisproductsgroup.com/...tor-Life-Expectancy.aspx#sthash.iSkBNcSN.dpuf


Putting a 50psi safety valve at the outlet is cheap insurance.


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## loach guy (Jun 2, 2014)

jeffkrol said:


> sure as heck can....
> That is just too wrong to discuss..
> 
> Bump:
> ...


Please take a video of a regulator hooked up to a pressure source, with nothing else connected to it generating pressure downstream. You would win a Nobel prize in physics if you were able to accomplish this feat.

Bump: A lot of what has been said on this thread would be accurate if the solenoid was placed BEFORE the regulator on the OP's system.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

loach guy said:


> Please take a video of a regulator hooked up to a pressure source, with nothing else connected to it generating pressure downstream. You would win a Nobel prize in physics if you were able to accomplish this feat.
> 
> Bump: A lot of what has been said on this thread would be accurate if the solenoid was placed BEFORE the regulator on the OP's system.


My apologies.. after reading this yes, a regulator "contains" pressure if sealed..It does not contain pressure when free of all it's pipes.. 

My point was it "maintains" internal pressure and is it's sole job really..


"Normal" input and output have little (though some) to do with it.. 

Which is why you can shut off the tank and solenoind and maintain pressure internally for literally days with no needle creep or loss.
you can slowly bleed out pressure on the outlet and both gauges will stay the same for a bit. Then the hp side will drop, outlet side still at set point, until hp chamber is empty.
THEN the lp chamber will start to drop..
When my victor blew the hp seat that is exactly how I ran my tank for awhile.. Charge the HP chamber till hp relief blew, shut off the tank 
lp stayed 35psi for hours until the now 300ps (400 forget what Victor has it set for) side was exhausted, then the lp dropped.. Charge, discharge, and recharge cycle..lp solid till it needed a recharge in the hp side. 
Any pressure drop or rise in the low pressure gauge, before or after "running" is not normal, within a small fraction of the operating range.

The input maintains the output pressure ..regardless of demand.. within reason..
To reiterate.. if the op sets pressure at 20psi w/ the solenoid closed, opens it and the lp drops what was it 3-4psi, then when the solenoid closes goes past the set point to 30 psi the reg. is broken..

I posted this link and I basically know where you are trying to go but it just does not apply to even my wildest speculation of what is attached to the o/p's system nor it's demand or lack of..
http://www.beswick.com/basics-pressure-regulators

http://www.documentation.emersonprocess.com/groups/public/documents/reference/d351798x012_05.pdf


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## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

loach guy said:


> Please take a video of a regulator hooked up to a pressure source, with nothing else connected to it generating pressure downstream. You would win a Nobel prize in physics if you were able to accomplish this feat.
> 
> Bump: A lot of what has been said on this thread would be accurate if the solenoid was placed BEFORE the regulator on the OP's system.


They're right. You have it wrong. 

Pipes valves solenoid etc do not create your pressure. Your tank of gas creates your pressure. The gauge shows the pressure of the charge on the internal low side, not the pressure in your fittings etc. Any gas that is expelled from the low side is instantly replaced with new gas from the high side/tank maintaining your set working pressure.

Also if I were to do as you suggest my working pressure, with nothing attached to the low side, would remain at what I set it at until the tank emptied.

If you put the solenoids we use BEFORE the regulator... Most of them would likely blow as they're not rated for that kind of pressure. No one puts a solenoid BEFORE their regulator. That would place it between the cga320 inlet and the regulator body. I think maybe you have some component names mixed up.


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## Apisto (Mar 21, 2004)

I want to thank everyone who replied. I really appreciate the time everyone has spent, and is spending, helping me understand what is going on. I now feel much farther along the track to being able to draw a conclusion.

To add one bit of information, the setup is feeding the large version of the Ista max mix CO2 reactor.


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## loach guy (Jun 2, 2014)

jeffkrol said:


> My apologies.. after reading this yes, a regulator "contains" pressure if sealed..It does not contain pressure when free of all it's pipes..
> 
> My point was it "maintains" internal pressure and is it's sole job really..
> 
> ...


You need to understand that the OP's solenoid is AFTER the regulator. Since the OP is seeing 30 PSI when the system is off, then that's what the regulator is set at. However, the OP's system does not require 30 PSI to function properly. Since air (and CO2) is lazy, it will not generate more PSI than it needs to, to accomplish the task of escaping to atmospheric pressure. So since the regulator is set at 30 PSI, it is able to provide no more than 30 PSI, but since only 16-18 PSI is required, that is all that will show.

Bump:


Dead2fall said:


> They're right. You have it wrong.
> 
> Pipes valves solenoid etc do not create your pressure. Your tank of gas creates your pressure. The gauge shows the pressure of the charge on the internal low side, not the pressure in your fittings etc. Any gas that is expelled from the low side is instantly replaced with new gas from the high side/tank maintaining your set working pressure.
> 
> ...


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

loach guy said:


> You need to understand that the OP's solenoid is AFTER the regulator.


Makes not one bit of difference


loach guy said:


> Since the OP is seeing 30 PSI when the system is off, then that's what the regulator is set at. However, the OP's system does not require 30 PSI to function properly. Since air (and CO2) is lazy, it will not generate more PSI than it needs to, to accomplish the task of escaping to atmospheric pressure. So since the regulator is set at 30 PSI, it is able to provide no more than 30 PSI, but since only 16-18 PSI is required, that is all that will show.
> 
> Bump:


the output is "open" there is no pressure restriction. you can blow through as much pressure as you feed it.. 
Set the lp to 10 fine, 20, 30, 100 doesn't matter...up until the point you blow a hose or the plastic tank..


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## loach guy (Jun 2, 2014)

jeffkrol said:


> Makes not one bit of difference
> 
> the output is "open" there is no pressure restriction. you can blow through as much pressure as you feed it..
> Set the lp to 10 fine, 20, 30, 100 doesn't matter...up until the point you blow a hose or the plastic tank..


Not really sure what you are trying to show me. There is no solenoid or flow control on your drawing. There are points that will cause pressure. Your flow control, check valve and the water pressure all need to be overcome. As I have posted a few times. For those who do not believe me on how a regulator works. Go ahead and post a video. Put only a ball valve at the outlet of your regulator. With the ball valve closed, set your regulator to say 30psi or so. Open your ball valve and show me how your regulator maintains 30psi.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

loach guy said:


> Not really sure what you are trying to show me. There is no solenoid or flow control on your drawing. There are points that will cause pressure. Your flow control, check valve and the water pressure all need to be overcome. As I have posted a few times. For those who do not believe me on how a regulator works. Go ahead and post a video. Put only a ball valve at the outlet of your regulator. With the ball valve closed, set your regulator to say 30psi or so. Open your ball valve and show me how your regulator maintains 30psi.


At full open pipe sized accordingly , yes there will be a drop. W/ the o/p's system it shouldn't be much and more importantly it shouldn't go up. 
Since you are so good w/ hydraulics please ballpark the flow rate for me..It will save me $1 in CO2..
(in liters of CO2/minute assume wide open 3/8 tubing to simplify things.)

Assume no solenoids, no restrictions..
and plot it to the chart pg 17 @ 20psi:
https://www.mathesongas.com/pdfs/litCenter/SpecGas&EquipmentBrochures/Guide to Regulators.pdf

here is some help:
http://www.engineersedge.com/pipe_flow_capacity.htm


After you do that how about then dividing by the flow rate of a "standard" needle valve at 6 "bubbles per minute"..

to save you time the flow is minute in terms of liters/ minute which would put you pressure drop at ZERO on that chart..


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## loach guy (Jun 2, 2014)

Apisto said:


> I initially set the working pressure to 20 PSI. The tank pressure read as 825 PSI.
> 
> After being on for a while (a few hours?), the PSI readings creep to about 16-18 and 875 PSI respectively.
> 
> Once the solenoid goes off for the night, the working pressure rises to 30 PSI within 15 minutes or less. The tank pressure reading will slowly lower over night, going back to 825 PSI at some point over night.


The OP is not talking about the working pressure increasing. They are explaining that when the solenoid (which is AFTER the regulator) turns off, the pressure on the gauge goes up to 30 psi (this is called head pressure). When the solenoid is open, then actuator, real life working pressure is 16-18psi.

Bump:


jeffkrol said:


> At full open pipe sized accordingly , yes there will be a drop. W/ the o/p's system it shouldn't be much and more importantly it shouldn't go up.
> Since you are so good w/ hydraulics please ballpark the flow rate for me..It will save me $1 in CO2..
> (in liters of CO2/minute assume wide open 3/8 tubing to simplify things.)
> 
> ...


First we are dealing with pneumatics, not hydraulics, but ok. I think you are confusing head pressure with working pressure. The OP is only dealing with a pressure increase with the solenoid that is (again) after the regulator. They are at 16-18 psi with flow, and 30psi with zero flow


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## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

Dude loach.. What are you talking about solenoid AFTER the regulator.. No one puts a solenoid BEFORE the regulator. Ever. Are you mistaking the metering valve for the regulator? The regulator is bad, usable yes, but still bad. 

The gauge should not read "head" pressure. It should read only the working pressure that the user sets it at and which the regulators second stage tries to keep. The pressure builds up to 30psi when set for 20 because the regulator is bad.

Overcoming tubing and water resistance and all that applies more to diy co2. With pressurized it really makes no difference unless you're doing huge runs.


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## loach guy (Jun 2, 2014)

Dead2fall said:


> Dude loach.. What are you talking about solenoid AFTER the regulator.. No one puts a solenoid BEFORE the regulator. Ever. Are you mistaking the metering valve for the regulator? The regulator is bad, usable yes, but still bad.
> 
> The gauge should not read "head" pressure. It should read only the working pressure that the user sets it at and which the regulators second stage tries to keep. The pressure builds up to 30psi when set for 20 because the regulator is bad.


I give up on this thread. If you guys want to throw away or rebuild a regulator every time you set the head pressure higher than the working pressure, then be my guest. You can send them to me (free of charge of course because they are broken right?). And I will sell them online all day long. Heck, I might even re-sell them back to you.😝


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## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

loach guy said:


> I give up on this thread. If you guys want to throw away or rebuild a regulator every time you set the head pressure higher than the working pressure, then be my guest. You can send them to me (free of charge of course because they are broken right?). And I will sell them online all day long. Heck, I might even re-sell them back to you.😝


You can't set a "head" pressure. You can only set your working pressure aka low side regulator pressure. The regulator should output the constant 10..20..whatever psi you set it at. The first gauge is the pressure of your input. The second gauge is only a tool for you to set the pressure the regulator SHOULD deliver.

Again please explain what you mean by "solenoid before the regulator"


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

loach guy said:


> The OP is not talking about the working pressure increasing. They are explaining that when the solenoid (which is AFTER the regulator) turns off, the pressure on the gauge goes up to 30 psi (this is called head pressure). When the solenoid is open, then actuator, real life working pressure is 16-18psi.
> 
> Bump:
> 
> First we are dealing with pneumatics, not hydraulics, but ok. I think you are confusing head pressure with working pressure. The OP is only dealing with a pressure increase with the solenoid that is (again) after the regulator. They are at 16-18 psi with flow, and 30psi with zero flow












Had to find some old math.. loach is not volunteering to do the flow rate calculations..



> 0.00610238cu inches per bubble


.0001 Liters per bubble.. If you do ,say 3-4 bubbles per minute = *.0004 liters / minute*
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=817553&highlight=

soooo that puts you a hair right of the y axis.........

The op's reading the lp gauge which is before the solenoid..


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## milibrka (Jul 27, 2013)

Apisto- I'm no expert with custom built Co2 Reg. However i do own 4 of them (see picture) and they're all built by AlanLe. None of the four has any gauges reading movement before or after it was ON/OFF. I'm assuming that you didn't built it yourself. i would contact the seller and ask him for advise/after the sale service. if he's (and assuming here), is a reputable custom reg builder on this site then i'm sure he will take care of you to your satisfaction. 

One more advise-next time just get one from AlanLe for a peace of mind.


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## AlanLe (Jan 10, 2013)

milibrka said:


> Apisto- I'm no expert with custom built Co2 Reg. However i do own 4 of them (see picture) and they're all built by AlanLe. None of the four has any gauges reading movement before or after it was ON/OFF. I'm assuming that you didn't built it yourself. i would contact the seller and ask him for advise/after the sale service. if he's (and assuming here), is a reputable custom reg builder on this site then i'm sure he will take care of you to your satisfaction.
> 
> One more advise-next time just get one from AlanLe for a peace of mind.
> View attachment 465369



Thanks but sometimes i run into problems with my builds too. It's just one of those days....


-Alan


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## Apisto (Mar 21, 2004)

milibrka said:


> Apisto- I'm no expert with custom built Co2 Reg. However i do own 4 of them (see picture) and they're all built by AlanLe. None of the four has any gauges reading movement before or after it was ON/OFF. I'm assuming that you didn't built it yourself. i would contact the seller and ask him for advise/after the sale service. if he's (and assuming here), is a reputable custom reg builder on this site then i'm sure he will take care of you to your satisfaction.
> 
> One more advise-next time just get one from AlanLe for a peace of mind.
> View attachment 465369


Nope, I bought it pre-assembled. The seller is working with me and I anticipate a successful resolution.

Also, as a further test, I set the working pressure to 14 PSI yesterday. The pattern followed. The working pressure dropped to 11 PSI during operation and then rose to 20 PSI within a couple hours of the solenoid being off. In case anyone was wondering, every time I set the working pressure, I do so using the same procedure outlined in the sticky thread on this site. It is a straight forward process that I am confident I execute accurately.


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## Beefy (Mar 6, 2015)

jeffkrol said:


> soooo that puts you a hair right of the y axis........


Bingo, exactly what I was saying earlier, thanks for posting that. At such a low flow rate, the regulator pressure should not drop from 30 to 16 PSI when the solenoid opens.


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## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

Beefy said:


> Bingo, exactly what I was saying earlier, thanks for posting that. At such a low flow rate, the regulator pressure should not drop from 30 to 16 PSI when the solenoid opens.


And if it did, it should go right back to 30 very quickly.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Beefy said:


> Bingo, exactly what I was saying earlier, thanks for posting that. At such a low flow rate, the regulator pressure should not drop from 30 to 16 PSI when the solenoid opens.


Shouldn't drop even 1psi at under 35 liters per minute (1.23 cu ft/ minute) of CO2...


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