# Co2 Solenoid failures



## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Probably due more to cheap solenoids than CO2.
Most do have some types of seals and it does depend on the materiel.
This is a pretty comprehensive compendium on o rings and materials..
http://www.parker.com/literature/O-Ring Division Literature/ORD 5700.pdf

Except for CO2 at extreme low temps and creation of acids w/ water.. it is relatively inert..
4 common materials used in o rings.. all OK for CO2
http://www.quantachrome.com/technical/o_rings.html


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Don't get the reason you gave me link to o-rings. Do change o-rings on a solenoid?


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

My first two solenoids both did not totally fail but they did become more nuisance than I wanted to deal with. I could take them apart and lube them to get them working again but then I never knew when they would stop working so replaced them. One of those sets is still used by the person that bought it but he also knows it is a cheapie and only has plants which leads him to feel okay using it. 
One had no ID on it and the second was JBXXX of some sort that was part of a kit setup.


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## sfshrimp (May 24, 2016)

Mine has failed - it's a generic black box type from China. The piston either sticks or is totally unreliable. I got tired of taking it apart, then having it work once or twice and then fail, so I have a clippard model in the mail, I will let you know how it goes. This is the one I ordered (also half the cost of the generic version I bought):

CO2 Regulator Parts | CO2 For Planted Tanks And Home Brewing. CO2 Regulator Solenoid with 15490-5 manifold


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

PlantedRich said:


> One had no ID on it and the second was JBXXX of some sort that was part of a kit setup.


Can not find the JBXXX solenoid.

Bump:


sfshrimp said:


> CO2 Regulator Parts | CO2 For Planted Tanks And Home Brewing. CO2 Regulator Solenoid with 15490-5 manifold


Not a bad price. Don't quite understand how it is connected. Hope you post a thread on it. I hope to put a Co2 system using a 5lb tank sometime in the future.


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## jrill (Nov 20, 2013)

Hilde said:


> Can not find the JBXXX solenoid.
> 
> Bump:
> Not a bad price. Don't quite understand how it is connected. Hope you post a thread on it. I hope to put a Co2 system using a 5lb tank sometime in the future.


I also have this clippard. Works well.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

jrill said:


> I also have this clippard. Works well.
> 
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


That is the 1 on the citric Co2 system?


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## Drew Hawker (Sep 8, 2016)

I'm a repair technician for commercial equipment and no matter what the brand, a solenoid will fail eventually.

The main point of failure is the cylinder that opens and closes the path of water/gas. The cylinder usually sticks in the open position due to ware and or debris. Then secondly and less often is the actual solenoid magnet goes bad and applies the magnet with no voltage being applied.

They do sell repair kits for different sized solenoids, comes with a spring and new cylinder. As long as the housing is able to be cleaned thoroughly (this means no rust) this can be effective. If the electrical component fails, buy a new one.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Drew Hawker said:


> I'm a repair technician for commercial equipment and no matter what the brand, a solenoid will fail eventually.
> 
> The main point of failure is the cylinder that opens and closes the path of water/gas. The cylinder usually sticks in the open position due to ware and or debris. Then secondly and less often is the actual solenoid magnet goes bad and applies the magnet with no voltage being applied.
> 
> They do sell repair kits for different sized solenoids, comes with a spring and new cylinder. As long as the housing is able to be cleaned thoroughly (this means no rust) this can be effective. If the electrical component fails, buy a new one.


Is there anyway to tell if they are going bad?
Does the kit come with good directions?


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Hilde said:


> Don't get the reason you gave me link to o-rings. Do change o-rings on a solenoid?


o rings and coils are failure points on solenoids..and the same materials in o rings can vbe in the seat/seal

http://www.maintenancetechnology.com/2004/02/maintaining-and-troubleshooting-solenoid-valves/


> Removal of the sleeve from the valve body will expose the internal components of the valve operator. These include the plunger with a seal, the plunger return spring, an O-ring, the sleeve, and the operator body. These should be examined for damage or wear and replaced as needed.
> 
> The seals may exhibit swelling, cracking, or general deterioration. The spring should be inspected for worn or broken coils. The body orifice may be nicked or the crest may be worn. When the plunger lifts, it normally makes contact with the sides and stop of the sleeve. As a result, the top of the plunger and the inside of the sleeve may show wear as well.
> 
> For more complex solenoid valve types using diaphragms, pistons, spools, and levers, specific manufacturers’ instructions must always be followed.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

jeffkrol said:


> o rings and coils are failure points on solenoids..


Seems Co2 injected with expensive fish is not wise to do. For seems there is always a potential of a dump due to solenoid getting stuck.


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## Drew Hawker (Sep 8, 2016)

Yes there are ways to tell.

The actual solenoid, or black box, gets extremely hot compared to normal usually means its going out. Secondly sometimes it will start making a buzzing noise, this also is a good sign somethings going wrong (solenoids can continue to run like this for a long time, but likely are going out).

The cylinder sometimes will stick in place open (allowing for flow) and you can tap it with a screw driver/blunt object on the top of the solenoid lightly and sometimes it will drop into place (stopping flow). You should at that point see if there is anything you can do to resolve it (clean the housing where the cylinder and spring is located). A lot of the time however, this is not the case and the cylinder or housing is not repairable. Look for a repair kit to replace the cylinder and spring and clean the body or purchase a new solenoid. Also the only way to find out if the cylinder and spring is having issues it to take the solenoid apart. It's fairly easy but if you don't feel confident then do not mess with it.


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## jrill (Nov 20, 2013)

Hilde said:


> That is the 1 on the citric Co2 system?


Yes

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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Hilde said:


> Seems Co2 injected with expensive fish is not wise to do. For seems there is always a potential of a dump due to solenoid getting stuck.


no just run low injection rates.. Only harm would be 24/7 injection.. 
If it is below night lethal concentrations (injected CO2, plant and fish and ect. nighttime respiration = non-lethal concentration) it makes no difference really.
Just wastes CO2
A stuck open solenoid will let no more than the normal needle valve set bubble count.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

jeffkrol said:


> no just run low injection rates.. Only harm would be 24/7 injection..
> If it is below night lethal concentrations (injected CO2, plant and fish and ect. nighttime respiration = non-lethal concentration) it makes no difference really.
> Just wastes CO2
> A stuck open solenoid will let no more than the normal needle valve set bubble count.


It read that a solenoid got stuck over night and dumped the Co2 which killed Discus fish.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Hilde said:


> It read that a solenoid got stuck over night and dumped the Co2 which killed Discus fish.


*injected CO2, plant and fish and ect. nighttime respiration = lethal concentration*
Solenoid opening will not get any larger than if it was functioning normally..Say they were running "close to lethal" during lights on, then at lights out 
the CO2 along w/ the lack of use and added night time respiration could be enough, but not really solenoid related per se.. 

Another possibility is a single stage reg and the tank just "happened" to empty at the end of its fill (tank dump) at the same time the solenoid was stuck open.

Live on the edge, fall off the edge.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/9...nes-dead-co2-overdose-solenoid-failure-3.html
start at post 39.....



> So would you say that for those of us who aren't using a controller and don't use really high levels of CO2 that if a solenoid fails we aren't in danger of an overdose?


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

The info here may be getting confused without mention that there are different designs in solenoids. The typical solenoid using some type of cylinder or slide to move to open/close things do often stick. But that is where I do not use that type but opt to use what I feel is a far better design. 
The Clippard Mouse design doesn't have a sliding part to stick but only what they call a "spider" to lift a tiny amount. 










Moving .007 inch is not much chance of sticking. Using less than a watt (.67 watt!) is not going to create heat even if left pulled for days. The solenoid is rated for more than a billion cycles. Yes, those numbers are what I meant to type--.007 inch movement, .67 watt and a billion cycles.
The only part to move is the little black seal in the center of the metal gizmo. It moves up and down to seal the tiny little hole in the center of the solenoid. Like putting your finger on a hole but only moving your finger .007 inch? 

This type valve is somewhat like what is used to feed the fuel to small engines and in those uses the valve opens and closes every time the plug fires. That means this type movement operates hundreds of times per minute in many cases and around really hot places like a lawnmower engine. For our use, if we pull it up and leave it for fifty times a day, we are still not likely to ever wear it out and we can leave it pulled for months without it getting hot! 
I'm not saying it can't be broken. They are small precision items and we do need to think what we are doing so that we don't break them or the wiring but that is true of our tanks too!


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