# CO2 and airstone at the same time



## Cannonbolt (Sep 13, 2007)

Is there any reason I shouldn't be running these simultaneously?


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## hbosman (Oct 5, 2006)

You would want some surface movement to get oxygen into the water but, you might be better off with a powerhead for that so, you can create a current to move the CO2 around the tank as well.


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## ADJAquariums (Jul 5, 2012)

Its not as necessary during the day because plants will be using the CO2 whereas at night the plants will not be using the CO2 so an airstone is a must if you want live fish in the morning. If cO2 is wanted to create a sort of movement follow hbosman's instructuions


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

the bubble from airstones tend to pull dissolved c02 out of suspension rather quickly. very low amounts of bubbles is okay. but running one anyone close to medium or wide open will destroy ur c02 levels.
surface agitation by powerhead, filter output, or overflow and sump is the bes means of keeping c02 levels maintained while providing good oxygen levels


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## sphack (May 2, 2012)

Currently, I'm runnign with an airstone and know I'm throwing away some CO2 (possibly most).

I ran CO2 for some time with a power head and no airstones. The drop checker was a nice solid green. Fish where having problems, though not the tell-tale signs of gasping on the surface (described in other threads, I can look up if people if interested). I added an airstone and the fish recovered nicely. 

The airstone does gas the CO2 off. I have not worked through balancing the O2 and CO2 yet. 

My CO2 is on a pH controller so I can maintain a 1 point drop.


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

sphack said:


> Currently, I'm runnign with an airstone and know I'm throwing away some CO2 (possibly most).
> 
> I ran CO2 for some time with a power head and no airstones. The drop checker was a nice solid green. Fish where having problems, though not the tell-tale signs of gasping on the surface (described in other threads, I can look up if people if interested). I added an airstone and the fish recovered nicely.
> 
> ...


 
I am always surprised on this. unless ur drop checker is 5 dkh or 6 dkh. i don'tse how ur getting close to gassing ur fish with a green drop checker unless u have poor flow and no surface agitation


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## pejerrey (Dec 5, 2011)

hbosman said:


> You would want some surface movement to get oxygen into the water but, you might be better off with a powerhead for that so, you can create a current to move the CO2 around the tank as well.


Ime, This far more effective than a noisy air pump. 

I Use co2 24/7 with cardinias shrimp and no airstone. The spray bar is pointing at the surface creating a nice silent big ripple without any splashing.


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## sphack (May 2, 2012)

HD Blazingwolf said:


> I am always surprised on this. unless ur drop checker is 5 dkh or 6 dkh. i don'tse how ur getting close to gassing ur fish with a green drop checker unless u have poor flow and no surface agitation


I had the false sense of security with the drop checker. The solution that came with it (from malady) claims to be 4 dkh. I should probably verify that at home.  I do have a CO2 titration kit that should be arriving today to be able to double check the CO2 every once and a while (morning/evening/etc).

Anyway, I have a very high surface agitation, even before adding the drop checker. 

I think a number of things contributed to my slight gassing of fish.
a) turned the co2 on 24/7 on pH controller
b) reduced the lighting intensity from 4 to 2 T5HO 6700K bulbs
c) the mulm had built up quite a bit (I didn't realize it was so bad until I vacuumed yesterday)

The gassing was very mild, they just stopped eating for the most part (which caused more mulm to build up), stopped swimming around as much or as fast, and would occasionally have problems in the morning. Having some fish die and not being able to find the body probably didn't help either.

What tipped me off to the possible cause of O2 deprevation was when acclimatizing some full size rainbows, the fish would start gasping for air every time I added some water. When I added the fish they first swam around, then swam around on the surface, then stopped swimming on the surface. They were sucking the air/water boundary trying to get O2. I moved the fish to a 5gal bucket with primed water and they were much happier. Fish are now in a quarantine tank and I picked up an air stone. After about 90 minutes and the pH rose about 1/2 a point, the existing fish (cardinals, rasboras, corys, bn plecos) just came alive and were swimming happily, playing in the current (rasboras) and exploring everything. 

I'm in the process of bringing the CO2 back up, turning the air down (and hopefully just running it at night) and generally get back to fighting the algae again.


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

ahh.. i believe the true culprit here is o2 deprivation period due to BOD or biological oxygen demand
mulm, decaying leaves, fish food and food all result in bacteria using oxygen. 
as a reference my 4dk dc is yellow. and my 5dkh dc is yellow as well. and fish don't even pretend to be stunned. they swim and play all day and will destroy any food i throw in the tank

keep the filter clean, change the water regularly, and clean out any debris of any kind u can.. this will promote a healthy tank, and one that doesn';t require tons of oxygen to keep running


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## pejerrey (Dec 5, 2011)

HD Blazingwolf said:


> ahh.. i believe the true culprit here is o2 deprivation period due to BOD or biological oxygen demand
> mulm, decaying leaves, fish food and food all result in bacteria using oxygen.
> 
> keep the filter clean, change the water regularly, and clean out any debris of any kind u can.. this will promote a healthy tank, and one that doesn';t require tons of oxygen to keep running


+1 and nh4 /no2 causing malfunction/damage gills


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## sphack (May 2, 2012)

BOD - I've seen this acronym but never with context. After cleaning last night, I can believe it. I've been fighting algae and ask it died off, the mulm has increased. 

Sorry, Cannonbolt, for taking over your thread...  Hopefully this helps.

So, I'm going to reduce the air stone to only run some overnight. Assuming all looks well, start to turn the CO2 up little by little (by dropping the targetted pH). I'm already set at roughly 1 pH point below the gassed value (set for 6.1 with a degassed pH of 6.9). To get the drop checker to turn green, I had it set for a pH of 5.6. (This is with a dKH of 6)

Thanks for all the information.


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