# Another newbie, should of waited



## HouseofZoo (Sep 12, 2010)

So I've been doing some research and decided I wanted to try low-light/low tech in my 29g. I purchased a coralife 30" t5NO fixture. I was fortunate to find a great lfs that I never even knew about until last week. Well kept secret I guess.

I spoke with the worker and she suggested that I add my stock light strip as well that contains a 20w coralife bulb. This would bring me up to 56 total watts, which I know is not an accurate way of measuring light anymore. I purchased the coralife because I had read over and over again that this would be a suitable light for what I am trying to achieve. Do I truly need the other 20w light or will the coralife be enough.

This is what I have going on with my tank thus far.

4 Odessa Barbs
Marineland HOT canister 
no heater yet as my house has been very warm (should I add one?)
plain aquarium gravel small pea gravel looking stuff, was told this was fine for the plants I had since only the val are truly "planted" in the substrate?

Plants:
Val
Anubias
Crypts/Java Fern? Can't remember now, should of wrote things down. thinking java fern
christmas moss
and something else that I cannot remember the name of

I do not know the technical names of any of the plants I purchased even though I knew them when they first told me. I have been on a low dose of pain meds due to shoulder surgery last thursday (9/16), so pardon the mess I'm making of this thread as well. I plan to go back and ask again the names of what I purchased when I'm a bit more lucid, didn't realize I was so "out of it" when I asked to be driven to the store.

They also suggested that I use excel once a day or once every other, but I'm getting conflicting information on the use of excel with vals. Some say this will kill them, but others say it is the sudden shock of using it that makes them die down, but once they get used to it they will grow just fine. It is actually the fluctuation of using it and not using it that causes the damage? Any suggestions on this would be appreciated also.

I will try to get a decent picture of what I have going on so far, planting was FUN FUN with one arm.


----------



## HouseofZoo (Sep 12, 2010)

*Here's the pictures...*

I need to get that background off and I want to either paint the back or just add a plain black background.










This picture shows the plant I do not know the name of.


----------



## stewardwildcat (Feb 24, 2010)

Not sure of the tall stem but you have Java Fern (the large green leaved plant). Looks like a nice tank!


----------



## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

I think the stem is rotala rotundafolia.


----------



## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Definitely rotala rotund. I agree with Chad. Tank looks very nice, I like the lighter gravel you have. It's a nice change of pace around here. I agree the background needs to go. As far as heaters, it is good to have one in case it gets too cold for your fish. Plus, it helps maintain a constant temperature. Of course, I have some tanks without heaters but I just add cold water fish. Welcome to the forum.


----------



## HouseofZoo (Sep 12, 2010)

Grr hope not since I was told everything I purchased was low light


----------



## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Rotalas are one of the few stems that can be maintained with low lighting. Youll be fine if its not puttnig out tiny little leaves already.


----------



## HouseofZoo (Sep 12, 2010)

Any suggestions on the lighting? Do I need the extra strip light for what I have now or can I do without it? I know I can buy another bulb, but the current 20w bulb in that strip makes everything really yellow and if I don't truly need it then I would rather not replace it.

Also, once time and arms allow, would it be a good idea to mix something in my gravel like eco complete or will my gravel be well enough for what I have.

I plan to rescape once I have two arms again anyhow, the rocks in the photos are holding my branch down at the moment and would like to find more hardscaping items that I like and as the title states, I should have waited, but sitting home everyday all day had me a little stir crazy and the vics aren't helping.


----------



## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Don't bother adding that 20w strip light. You don't need it, and neither should you want it. The 36w T5NO light is all you need for a good, healthy, low-light 29 gallon. You will be able to grow plenty of plants with it... you just probably won't be able to carpet the bottom of the tank, that's all.


----------



## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

I wouldnt worry about the eco either. Plants do just fine in gravel.


----------



## HouseofZoo (Sep 12, 2010)

*Forgot to show off my pre-surgery handywork*

Here's a photo of the canopy I built. It's a little on the tall side, but I wanted to be sure I had enough room for whatever lighting I decided on since I built this prior to purchasing my light. It looks a little top heavy against the prefab stand the tank is on, but I'll worry about that later (I think).

Sorry for crooked photo, but I'm a righty taking pictures with my left.

In my opinion, and as my husband confirmed, "not too bad for a girl"


----------



## DANIELSON (Jul 15, 2010)

Good choice on the odessa barb i love mine.


----------



## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

"Not bad for a girl"?? Smack him, please? :hihi:

The reasons you're getting conflicting reports about Excel with Vals is that different people have different experiences. Personally, my Vals pooped out and never came back after I dosed Excel. Your experience may be different. Helpful, isn't it? LOL:icon_lol:


----------



## HouseofZoo (Sep 12, 2010)

Well, they were inexpensive enough that if they do die I won't be broken hearted. Even got more than I asked for, I loved that about this lfs. You said I want this and they gave me that and then some. When I said I wanted the Java fern I certainly didn't expect to get what I did for the price.

And I will smack him for you. He just doesn't like to admit that I AM pretty handy from time to time.


----------



## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Good start!! Welcome!!

For the background I use fabric. I just tear black duck tape in half and tape it on. You could glue Velcro tabs on the tank and fabric with super gell to make it neater. It is cheap, changeable. The color appears darker behind the filled tank with lights on.

For foreground plants you could use some more moss and Sagittaria subulata. I think the addition of Hydrocotyle leucocephala would be interesting too. 

For ferts you could just use API tabs. They contain Iron sulphate, Nitrogen, Potash, Potassium sulphate. If you dose 2ml of Excell the Vals should be okay. That is what I did in the past.

Great work on the top. I have seen other tanks with similar tops. Some make them big to put fans in them. There is room to add lights for high tech setup.


----------



## HouseofZoo (Sep 12, 2010)

Thanks for the suggestions. Being under house arrest from surgery I have had a lot of time to sit and stare at my current setup. 

The background will be gone as soon as I can wrangle my husband for 5 minutes to give me a hand in shimmying the tank away from the wall some. 

I ventured out yesterday to a different LFS and I found a great new piece of driftwood that I want to use. It's currently soaking in a storage container in the bathtub. I'm sure he'll love that when he gets home from work...lol. 

I also purchased a tiny little bristlenose. I normally hate the look of plecos, but he is so small and so fast scooting around the tank that I love him already... he's definitely fun to watch, very deliberate in his movements and a nice change from watching my Odessa's dart around they're on meth-amphetamines.

I'm thinking of mixing something into my current gravel as I'm having trouble keeping the vals seated. I seen some nice smaller stones, made me think of Grapenuts cereal, in a slightly darker shade of brown/tan that I thought would look nice mixed with my gravel, but I'm wondering if I should mix in something more beneficial for the plants instead or maybe get rid of the pea gravel altogether? I'm open to opinions and suggestions on this. I like the look of the lighter color substrate though and I do understand that whatever I mix in will eventually end up on the bottom anyhow.

Another question, if I were to purchase more plants soon, would it be alright to just submerge them in the tank until this weekend when I hope to rescape? I want to try to get to my new fave lfs after my post-op appt. for some more plants, but unsure of the exact date I will be redoing the tank.

I would of thought time off of work after surgery would of been friendlier on my pocket book. Guess I should move possible projects out of the room when I'm couch ridden so I can't sit and stare and come up with new ideas I can do when no one is around to stop me.... lol.


----------



## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

HouseofZoo said:


> I also purchased a tiny little bristlenose. I normally hate the look of plecos, but he is so small and so fast scooting around the tank.


Yeh, some fish just have attitude that calls out to you.


HouseofZoo said:


> Maybe get rid of the pea gravel altogether? I'm open to opinions.


Okay then my opinion is to try the El Natural method. Just use Scotts top soil and top with pool filter sand. Then add the API root tabs and dose with Excell. To get unwanted particles out of dirt put some in a bucket of water and pour items that float at top off. Pool filter sand from Lowes' is good. Rinse all at least 1x to get rid of pollutants. Walstead recommends putting crush coral. That is good for raising the ph. I put a small layer of laterite under the dirt, for I have stem plants.


HouseofZoo said:


> Another question, if I were to purchase more plants soon, would it be alright to just submerge them in the tank until this weekend when I hope to rescape?


 That is okay for a short while. 


HouseofZoo said:


> I would of thought time off of work after surgery would of been friendlier on my pocket book.


 Been there!! :icon_lol:More time means more to plan.


----------



## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Mineralized topsoil is definitely the best substrate for the $$, it's very cheap and nutrient-rich. A little bit of work, though. Or you can buy either the "ingredients" or a pre-made MTS package from Ken in the S&S (what's Ken's screenname now? The Crypt Keeper??? He changes it too much for me to keep up... lol)

Or you could mix some Flourite, Onyx sand, Laterite, Turface, or Eco Complete into your current gravel.

I float plants all the time till I figure out what I want to do with them- some plants actually do really well floating. Most of the time no harm is done.


----------



## HouseofZoo (Sep 12, 2010)

I'm considering giving the MTS a try since I learned today I will be off work 4 more weeks 

Has anyone who's done the MTS used Koi Clay in the mixture instead of pottery clay? Koi Clay is Montmorillonite clay and I have about a 10 lbs. bag left from my backyard pond (decided to fill it in after I watched a heron gobble down my gorgeous butterfly koi). It's my understanding that this koi clay helps replace iron, potassium, calcium, magnesium, manganese, and sodium. I never had trouble with it in my pond, but the application was quite different, just distributing it into the waterfall and letting it mix itself in the water. Did wonderful things for the string algae that would crop up once a season.

Would this be an ok substitute for the pottery clay?


----------



## HouseofZoo (Sep 12, 2010)

Well, I changed my background over to solid black and now I want a new tank. I knew there were scratches on the glass from my mom (hand me down tank) when she was cleaning the glass with green 3m scrub pads... tsk tsk. BUT.. I had no idea there were as many as there actually are now that the back is black. It looks just awful. I thought about finding a used one on craigslist, but figured I would probably end up with scratches again <SIGH> Please ignore the algae... I need Otos in a bad way.....










Also, does anyone have any idea why my Java Fern is doing this? The plants did come like this, but it has gotten worse since I planted them in my tank. It looked like some sort of algae to me at first, but it's actually dark spots, almost like burns or something? There are also small holes.


----------



## HouseofZoo (Sep 12, 2010)

Anyone? No one?


----------



## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

I believe that it is a nitrogen deficiency. Dosing with KNO3 will help. See Rex Griggs site for in on making a solution. Sources are Spectricide stump remover from Lowe's, aquarium fertilizers. Seachem nitrogen is potassium nitrate.


----------



## HouseofZoo (Sep 12, 2010)

Just so I'm clear on this and don't kill my entire tank, I can I make the solution from the Rex Grigg's site using the stump remover? 16.8 grams into 250 mL of water?


----------



## HouseofZoo (Sep 12, 2010)

BTW, I forgot to say thank you for responding. I can be a tad bit OCD about things and like to get things close to right the first time around. Having nothing to do all day definitely doesn't help the OCD.


----------



## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

HouseofZoo said:


> Just so I'm clear on this and don't kill my entire tank, I can I make the solution from the Rex Grigg's site using the stump remover? 16.8 grams into 250 mL of water?


I use it. I just use a small bottle 2oz (50ml) and mix in 1 tsp of KNO3. I just use the baby medicine measures. What your are doing should be alright. I am positive it is 100% KNO3. I think 2ml daily of the solution until the problem is corrected will help. Then 4ml weekly.

Love the fish. What are they?


----------



## HouseofZoo (Sep 12, 2010)

Awesome, thanks! Guess I now have an excuse to leave my house tomorrow... YAY!


MTS is "cooking"
Driftwood is soaking

It's almost time for the re-do!!


----------



## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

I think 2ml daily of the solution until the problem is corrected will help. Then 4ml weekly.

Love the fish. What are they?


----------



## HouseofZoo (Sep 12, 2010)

They are Odessa Barbs, 2 males, 2 females. I absolutely love them although the females are quite boring to look at. Wish I had a larger tank, I would have a whole mess of them, they're fun to watch.


----------



## HouseofZoo (Sep 12, 2010)

Ok, so I cannot locate Spectracide Stump Remover anywhere. Even the Lowe's site says it's out of stock everywhere and I'm honestly not big on buying things online. All I found was Bonide Stump Out that was sodium pyrosulfite. Looks like I'll be buying Flourish Nitrogen unless someone has another suggestion. Can potassium nitrate be found in any other products? There is a hydroponic store around the corner from me. Would they carry potassium nitrate and how do you think it would compare in pricing?


----------



## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

HouseofZoo said:


> Ok, so I cannot locate Spectracide Stump Remover anywhere. Looks like I'll be buying Flourish Nitrogen. Is There is a hydroponic store around the corner from me.


Yeh, Flourish nitrogen is Potassium nitrogen. Try google maps to find if there is a hydroponic store near you. 

Easiest thing to do is to open a bank account that use just for buying on line. It is free. Buy from aquarium fertilizer. Their shipping is $6 but the product last a long time. 

Just looked on Ebay and found SALT PETRE is potassium nitrate. Perhaps a feed store carries it?


----------



## HouseofZoo (Sep 12, 2010)

So I was able to find my MTS cap locally at my new fave LFS. I decided to go with Flourish Dark mainly because I wanted a higher CEC and because of the color. I wanted a dark substrate but not completely black. Not sure why I was dead set on this, but at least I found some. 

As for the Spectracide Stump Remover, I spoke with someone at Lowe's and he said they no longer carry it in the stores because kids were buying it to make bombs or something? But it is still available online. I'm not sure if this is just local to me or if it's even true, but thought I would share it.

The LFS also suggested that I wait at least a week after changing substrates and water testing to be sure I do not get any ammonia spikes before adding plants?? She stated that the ammonia spike would damage most of the plants in the tank unless I stay on top of it. I plan on using mulm and my current filter after the change in substrate, should I anticipate there being an ammonia spike?


----------



## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Try www.aquariumfertilizers.com


----------



## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

HouseofZoo said:


> I decided to go with Flourish Dark.


Here is info on how to rinse it.


----------



## HouseofZoo (Sep 12, 2010)

Laura: Thanks for the link. I have everything sitting in my shopping cart that I want to purchase, now just have to wait for the bank account to replenish to make the final purchase.

Hilde: Thanks for your link too. That page definitely shows a better way of rinsing it that what I had had in mind. 


Question: I forgot I had a bag of Potash in the garage from when I had my pond. The only thing the label says is 0-0-60 - Soluble Potash - 60% derived from Muriate of Potash. Can this be used to make a dosing solution? If so, how do I go about figuring out how much I need to use?


----------



## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I agree that letting Flourite dry afterwards before putting in the tank makes a huge difference. I have no really good explanation for why it works, but IME it really does! I take mine outside in buckets and blast it with the garden hose till it runs off clear. Takes about 20-30 min per bag that way. Then I spread it in the driveway on an old sheet to dry.


----------



## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

HouseofZoo said:


> I have everything sitting in my shopping cart that I want to purchase. Question: I forgot I had a bag of Potash in the garage from when I had my pond. The only thing the label says is 0-0-60 - Soluble Potash - 60%


That is potasium chloride. Plants need nitrogen. I don't think it will do much for the plants.

I am glad to see you decided to look on line. Many things area cheaper on line. I just have a separate bank account for shopping on line. Also google for review of company I buy from. So what are you going get? If you are buying in bulb check out 
Dr Foster, and Pet Solutions. You can get good deals buying in bulk.


----------



## HouseofZoo (Sep 12, 2010)

Well, I still plan on purchasing the KNO3, but was thinking I could use the Potash for potassium dosing?

I read somewhere that the holes in my Java Fern may be caused by a potassium deficiency, so I thought I would mix up a solution and try supplementing the Flourish with it a little.

I'm just not sure if I would use Chuck's Planted Aquarium Calculator to figure out the exact amount to use. After playing with it a little it looks like it would be best to dose this dry anyhow.

1 gram of dry KCl adds 5.14 ppm of Potassium


----------



## HouseofZoo (Sep 12, 2010)

So I did the overhaul on my tank Sunday with the help of my darling husband. He washed the Flourite Dark for me and we ended up drying it on the basement floor next to a dehumidifier due to crappy weather. Worked great though!!

I didn't have nearly as much MTS as I thought I had, but I suppose some is better than none. Capped it with the Flourite and filled a few inches and started scaping. 

Picked up some new plants to try from LFS. 

Crypt Wendtii Red
Giant Val (don't like it)
Compacta Sword x 2
Crypt Parva
Staurogyne sp. "Low Grow"??

They did warn me that some of these may not survive my tank, but you never know unless you try.

My water is pretty brown from my wood leaching even though I had thought it was done. Oh well, I'm starting to like it. I'm also dealing with a bacterial bloom. I'm doing very frequent water changes though as I am experiencing a small ammonia spike. Using prime, stability, purigen and water changes to keep it in check until it settles down. Overkill more than likely, but I find that fish are more fun when they're alive.

FTS









Left side (rocks are holding down the stump)









Right side









Fun Fishy Shot









Sorta Kinda DIY LED Moonlights (not as bright as it looks)











I'm not too keen on the sword placement, it sort of looks like a police line up to me. Any suggestions on where to move one or both to?


----------



## Algaegator (Jul 30, 2010)

Lookin' good so far. What did you use for moonlights?


----------



## Clint (Oct 7, 2010)

Looks good to me. If you don't like the swords on the right being in line, just scoot the one forward a bit, should break up your "lineup"


----------



## HouseofZoo (Sep 12, 2010)

I used automotive LED lights strips for my moonlighting. I made a DIY thread about it and have placed the link in my signature.


----------



## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

HouseofZoo said:


> I'm doing very frequent water changes though as I am experiencing a small ammonia spike. Using prime, stability, purigen and water changes to keep it in check until it settles down.




I think NovAqua+ Plus Instant Conditioner is better than prime. For prime takes out the nitrates which you want for plants. Some floating plants like Anacharis decrease the cycling time.


----------



## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Hilde said:


> I think NovAqua+ Plus Instant Conditioner is better than prime. For prime takes out the nitrates which you want for plants. Some floating plants like Anacharis[/FONT] decrease the cycling time.


Prime does not remove nitrates. Using Prime shouldn't have any negative impact on plants or the nutrients they need.


----------



## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

lauraleellbp said:


> Prime does not remove nitrates. Using Prime shouldn't have any negative impact on plants or the nutrients they need.


Oh, well I read on the bottle that it removes nitrates. Now I am confused.


----------



## HouseofZoo (Sep 12, 2010)

I read on the Seachem site that Prime detoxifies Nitrate for approximately 48 hours, but during this time the nitrate is still available to the plants.

I read that here.


----------



## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Detoxifying is different from removing.

There ARE products that will actually break down & remove nitrates, but Prime is not one of those.


----------



## HouseofZoo (Sep 12, 2010)

lauraleellbp said:


> Detoxifying is different from removing.
> 
> There ARE products that will actually break down & remove nitrates, but Prime is not one of those.


I guess that's what I was trying to say. I understand that it doesn't remove the nitrates, when I chose Prime that was part of my reasoning. You said it a lot more straight forward than me though.


----------



## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

HouseofZoo said:


> I read on the Seachem site that Prime detoxifies Nitrate for approximately 48 hours, but during this time the nitrate is still available to the plants.
> 
> I read that here.


Well then they have mislabled the bottle, for it says it removes the nitrates. Interesting info. I like the Nova+ plus better though, for it has herbs in it that are good for the fish. Found a concentrated form here, 500ml smallest bottle. I don't need that much so I am going to get the Prime.


----------



## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Hilde said:


> Well then they have mislabled the bottle, for it says it removes the nitrates.


The link you provided earlier does not say that it removes nitrates.

And I actually am very dubious of aloe being useful for fish. Only thing I personally ever use aloe for is sunburns, and I've had a fish with a sunburn so I don't put aloe in my tanks... :icon_mrgr Seriously, though, I've never seen any actual research that supported aloe being useful to fish.


----------

