# Jahmic's 35 tall low-tech riparium



## jahmic (Jan 30, 2011)

Here's a few boring pictures of dirt. :biggrin:





























Right now there is about a 1/2" cap of flourite over the 1" MG mix. I have another bag of flourite ready to go, and will add it to the tank to finish off the cap once I have the hardscape in place.

Next update...probably next weekend roud:


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## Geniusdudekiran (Dec 6, 2010)

This'll be interesting to watch. Good luck.


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## jahmic (Jan 30, 2011)

Got some great looking manzanita in the mail today...time to decide on a hardscape. 

Here's the options I came up with so far...leaning towards either #1 or #3, but still haven't decided for sure. I have a couple days to play with this before planting the tank, so any suggestions (even outside of what I've come up with) are welcome. I may do some trimming once I decide on something for sure...but for now I just arranged the pieces around intact. 

Anyway, I'm basically going for the look of stumps along a riverbank, with the roots going into the water. The bottom "third" of the tank will be filled, with the "stumps" above the waterline, surrounded by terrestrial plants.


1)











2) - If I use this one, the branch on the far right that sticks out to the right/front of the tank would be cut off, moving the "structure" of the 2 pieces over to the right. If you can see the 2 branches running perpendicular to the branch that would be cut off...that would essentially be lined up close to the right side of the tank.










3)











4)


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## jahmic (Jan 30, 2011)

Ended up not liking the previous attempts much...I felt like in every one of them there was a piece sitting directly in the middle, which was extremely distracting.

I think this is going to be the hardscape I go with:


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## Rockhoe14er (Jan 19, 2011)

I would put the flat part in the substrate because it looks too unnatural when it's sticking up. Looks great though


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## jahmic (Jan 30, 2011)

Rockhoe14er said:


> I would put the flat part in the substrate because it looks too unnatural when it's sticking up. Looks great though


I hear what you're saying...

And, although I may totally fail at this :tongue: ...the goal I'm going for is to create something similar to the marginal area of a tropical mangrove forest. Here's a decent representation of what I'm trying to pull off:



















So, basically the water line will go to right about where the "flat parts" are currently sitting in the tank, with "roots" reaching into the water. I think I have some pretty decent ideas of where to place the plants in the background to fool the eyes into seeing a riverbank in the back of the tank.

We'll see how it actually works when it's all said and done though :wink:


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## Chrisinator (Jun 5, 2008)

I think it will look awesome when it is done. Those flat parts will be covered with plants and the riparium planter's shades.


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk


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## Rockhoe14er (Jan 19, 2011)

O that's a great idea. That's going to look great. 



jahmic said:


> I hear what you're saying...
> 
> And, although I may totally fail at this :tongue: ...the goal I'm going for is to create something similar to the marginal area of a tropical mangrove forest. Here's a decent representation of what I'm trying to pull off:
> 
> ...


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Personally, i REALLY like option #2. A little unbalanced, but i think it works for what you're trying to accomplish...

Have you seen this tank before?:


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## jahmic (Jan 30, 2011)

Nice find AZ.

You know, I liked the arrangement of #2 the most originally...but was worried about it not looking right with quite a few branches reaching toward the front of the tank. Specifically the one on the far right.

But...after looking at the photo you posted, it looks like they pulled that off really well. 

Thanks for the input; I'm going to revisit that scape tomorrow. I think you're right though...especially when I start picturing where the waterline would be, it works really well with that scape.


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## jahmic (Jan 30, 2011)

So, no sense in posting pics of the tank fully planted just yet since it's a cloudy mess, but I got all the planting into the substrate done today (thanks to the generosity of the local members :biggrin: )

For the hardscape, I ended up going with a variation of #2 that I had posted earlier. I wasn't convinced that it looked natural enough, so I shifted some things around, trimmed some branches, and ended up with this:










I think it does a pretty good job as far as mimicking roots going down into the substrate...looks better than it did before at least. Also, got the "stumps" to wrap around each other, and the pieces seem to fall into place alot more naturally overall. At least IMHO :icon_wink

I'll get more pics up once things settle...which may take a while since there's currently no filter in there. Definitely noticed some bubbling coming through the substrate...good to know that gas is able to escape...but it may not clear up for a couple days.


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## jahmic (Jan 30, 2011)

Forgot that I grabbed a shot while I was planting...











I decided to not give myself another headache trying to scape the tank with water in there. Decided to plant everything while it was dry, which was SO much easier. I just kept misting in between...seemed to work out well. 

And it's a good thing, because this is the mess I made when I added water:










Flourite + MGO = huge mess. I couldn't imagine trying to see what I was doing through that crap  In all honesty, I didn't rinse the flourite as much as I did the previous time, and I rinsed the last layer of flourite and added it to the tank just before planting and filling the tank...which probably added to the mess. It's slowly clearing up...I'm going to drop in a cheap in-tank filter today so that the plants can get some more light...canister probably won't be here til later this week.


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## Rockhoe14er (Jan 19, 2011)

looking good. I can't wait to see the finished project.


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## psalm18.2 (Oct 16, 2010)

That is a cool photo of the river.


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## Noahma (Oct 18, 2009)

You need more submerged plants… lol I might have a massive apon. Crispus that you can have if I cannot find a place for it in my 36 (it came in that huge plant package I won at the auction) the tuber is about the size of an apple


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## jahmic (Jan 30, 2011)

Rockhoe14er said:


> looking good. I can't wait to see the finished project.


I can't wait either, lol. This has definitely been a fun project...hoping things go smoothly. Maybe I'll have this thing stable enough in time to adopt one of your apistos if you decide to do so in a couple months :icon_mrgr



Noahma said:


> You need more submerged plants… lol I might have a massive apon. Crispus that you can have if I cannot find a place for it in my 36 (it came in that huge plant package I won at the auction) the tuber is about the size of an apple


I know...it's looking pretty bare right now. But, all that hygro should have no problem filling in, and hopefully the stargrass does well too. I was even thinking about taking a few clippings of the H. zosterifolia and trying to create a carpet of it in one of the corners of the tank...just for fun. Oh, and I also have some more hygro, some pennywort, and a few more crypts on the way...I'm thinking that last bit will fill things in nicely. We'll see once the dust settles...literally, lol.


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## Noahma (Oct 18, 2009)

jahmic said:


> I can't wait either, lol. This has definitely been a fun project...hoping things go smoothly. Maybe I'll have this thing stable enough in time to adopt one of your apistos if you decide to do so in a couple months :icon_mrgr
> 
> 
> 
> I know...it's looking pretty bare right now. But, all that hygro should have no problem filling in, and hopefully the stargrass does well too. I was even thinking about taking a few clippings of the H. zosterifolia and trying to create a carpet of it in one of the corners of the tank...just for fun. Oh, and I also have some more hygro, some pennywort, and a few more crypts on the way...I'm thinking that last bit will fill things in nicely. We'll see once the dust settles...literally, lol.


I have heard of people doing a zosterfolia carpet. If you decide you want a apon. crispus let me know lol, this thing is HUGE!


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## jahmic (Jan 30, 2011)

I'll let you know for sure...I'm thinking that thing is too tall for this tank, I definitely remember seeing it in that bag at the auction, haha.

What I may actually end up having to do is shamefully beg for a couple more clippings of stargrass once my tank is established. I'm sure the change in tank conditions + the cloudy water had something to do with it...but when I did my water change today I noticed that the majority of the leaves are melting 

Hopefully the stems of stargrass are busy sending out roots and they just rebound...we'll see. All of the hygros are doing pretty well, maybe some minor melting on the leaves closest to the substrate. Crypts have started melting...sadly...but definitely expected. I'm confident they'll be fine once they adjust...kind of kicking myself for not leaving the largest crypt in my nano until this tank got established...but I was set on just getting the majority of the planting done in one shot, and was pretty antsy to get that out of the Edge and open up the scape a bit. 

I placed an in-tank filter in there for now, until my canister shows up. I tried to just let the sediment settle, but after 2 days with no change I decided to see if I could remove some of it with the filter. I'd say it had a minimal effect...it's probably stirring up as much stuff off the bottom as it's removing. I did a big water change today...and it looks like I'll have to keep doing daily water changes until this water clears. 

*fingers crossed*


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Hey jahmic your plants + accessories are on the way. I'll send a PM with details.


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## jahmic (Jan 30, 2011)

hydrophyte said:


> Hey jahmic your plants + accessories are on the way. I'll send a PM with details.


:biggrin: Very exciting. Definitely have to thank you for the inspiration...you have some amazing riparium setups.


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## Noahma (Oct 18, 2009)

jahmic said:


> I'll let you know for sure...I'm thinking that thing is too tall for this tank, I definitely remember seeing it in that bag at the auction, haha.
> 
> What I may actually end up having to do is shamefully beg for a couple more clippings of stargrass once my tank is established. I'm sure the change in tank conditions + the cloudy water had something to do with it...but when I did my water change today I noticed that the majority of the leaves are melting
> 
> ...


You can have more when you need it  The stuff should melt a bit, then suddenly you might have tons of it lol. I have plenty in both tanks now, and would be more than willing to give you some more.


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## jahmic (Jan 30, 2011)

Thanks Noah. I'll give things a chance to recover. Once the parameters are stable, the water is clear, and I have the lighting figured out...I'll be sure to give you a shout roud:


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Hey I sent a note with your tracking #. I hope that you will see the box soon.

The leather fern looked really nice. I hope that it will travel well.


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## jahmic (Jan 30, 2011)

I've definitely been busy the past few days...

Finally was able to get a decent filter hooked up to the tank. Went with an Eheim 2213 that's been hooked up since yesterday. My temporary "fix" - the Whisper in-tank filter did nothing for clearing up the water. The design basically had it stirring up more muck than it filtered as far as I could tell. The Eheim definitely took the cloudiness out of the tank that was caused by the substrate, now it's just tannins staining the water for the most part. I dropped a bag of purigen into the canister today as well; it will hopefully help clear the water up over the next few days, it's still pretty dirty.

Got some great looking plants from hydrophyte - some black mangroves and a leather fern. Also went to the local nursery and picked up a couple additional plants to fill the space. I'm thinking the Schefflera arboricola (aka parasol) is pretty much experimental....not sure how it'll do, but I thought it'd look good in the tank. The other plant I got at the nursery today was Rumex sanguineus (Bloody Dock). I really wanted an accent plant that would stand out among the emersed growth, and still blend well with the submerged scape. It's naturally a bog plant, and looks a whole lot like a cryptocoryne...so it had to come home with me  The pics don't do the plant any justice, the colors are pretty impressive. I'm just hoping it holds up. One thing worth mentioning, the really bold red veins in the leaves will probably be much more subdued in the tank after some time; IME the plant really only colors up in the cooler months. It'll still have some red in there I'm sure, but not as much due to the temp...ah well.

Enough chatter...picture time:





























I'll get a decent FTS once the water clears up...it's pretty difficult to get detail across the entire tank with the water being pretty dark still...and I'm too lazy to setup the DSLR just yet


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## jahmic (Jan 30, 2011)

More stuff worth mentioning:

Priming a canister filter when you have no idea what you're doing is a PITA, haha. It only took a few hrs of practicing with a couple buckets, but I finally got the technique down. 

I'm noticing bubbles leaving the substrate here and there. No mounds of gas building up, so it looks like I didn't overdo the cap. As far as water quality goes:

Ammonia - 2.0
Nitrites - 0.0
Nitrates - 5.0 (not tested...but I dosed)

I decided to dose the tank a few days ago. The melt was getting out of hand with a few plants. I also put some amazon frogbit in there just to see how it'd do earlier this week. I've found that it responds quicker to changes than anything else in my other setup...and it did the job for this "test". After 2.5 days, I started noticing pinholes and yellowing in the leaves of the frogbit, so I dosed conservatively to see if I could keep the stems from melting away. The ammonia was a huge surprise, it was 0.5 on Tuesday, I dosed Wednesday since I was concerned about nutrient deficiencies...then yesterday the ammonia was suddenly up to 2.0. Looks like the MGO may be responsible since there is no fauna in the tank. 

Today I took some bio-media from my other tank and dropped it into the canister filter. I also took the pre-filter sponge off that established tank and placed it in this one. Hopefully the introduction of bacteria starts to chew through the ammonia and cycle the tank. That was my initial plan...I was just kind of surprised to see ammonia that high so soon.

My confidence in the submersed plants has been fading...I definitely didn't notice anything this severe in my nano setup...but we'll see what happens. The crypts all melted as expected, along with the H. zosterfolia (also expected). The lower leaves of the hygrophila sp. 'tiger' definitely disappeared too though, which is when I got worried. I think the main culprit was extremely low light though, due to the cloudy water. Hopefully the purigen clears things up and things start to rebound here soon.

No algae blooms yet...just that layer of "slime" on the manzanita from soaking all week. At some point soon, I'll update the initial post with a plant list, etc.

As far as stock goes for fauna, it looks like I'm going to go with a species tank of Boraras brigittae once the water parameters are stable. Other than that, it'll probably be inhabited by a few nerite snails and amano shrimp for the "cleanup crew". I don't think I'll be doing a shrimp colony in this one...although I'm sure I'll be tempted.


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## jahmic (Jan 30, 2011)

As much as I love the look of my walls...I finally had to admit it was distracting. Plus, I was tired of staring at those Eheim tubes...I mean they're stylish and all...but...yea. 










The water started clearing up a bit, but it's still pretty cloudy. My ammonia levels are still up there, so I'm thinking it's just a bacteria bloom and things should calm down on their own in a few days. I went through the same thing in my other tank.

I may start dosing excel every other day...just until I get some fish in the tank. I did see some new growth at the nodes on a couple of the Hygrophila 'tiger' that had about melted away completely...so that's VERY promising. 

As for the background...it's just frosted window film from home depot. 20 dollars and I have enough to do about 8 more tanks this size. Easy enough to put on considering I had about 3-4 inches to work with behind the tank. It would've been easier to do BEFORE starting the tank...but I thought I'd be able to do without one since I've never used backgrounds in the past. There are definitely air bubbles and a couple creases visible in the background...but I wasn't really too concerned with getting it on there perfectly. They do make this application chemical that actually works well...I just chose to save some money, and didn't want to be spraying that stuff around the open-top of the tank. If anybody is considering doing this...don't use water in place of the applicator spray...you will end up with more static and hundreds of tiny air bubbles everywhere. Tried that in the past with the windows on a shed and had to redo everything with the applicator spray. The nice thing about the spray is that it makes it easier to remove the film if/when you decide to do so...without the spray it'll still come off, but leave a noticeable amount of residue behind that you'll have to rub off.


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## jahmic (Jan 30, 2011)

Snails never get any photo ops...


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

That's looking real good. This is actually a pretty roomy tank with some space for the plants to grow. I'll be interested to hear how that Schefflera does in there.


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## Sd760 (Apr 25, 2011)

Subd


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## jahmic (Jan 30, 2011)

hydrophyte said:


> That's looking real good. This is actually a pretty roomy tank with some space for the plants to grow. I'll be interested to hear how that Schefflera does in there.


Thanks :icon_wink

The Schefflera is doing well so far. I raised the planter up out of the water so it's not completely submerged...basically the bottom of the root ball is probably just barely at the waterline...that may be the key to keeping it alive in there. Hopefully I'm eventually able to get some of the java fern to grow emersed on the manzanita to hide the planter.

The Rubex has been interesting to watch as it adjusts. It went from 50 degree weather outside with water temps of about 45 degrees...to being inside by tank where my heater is set to 76. The mature leaves have been folding up and wilting slowly, but today I noticed a half dozen new shoots coming up. Excited to see what the new growth looks like in comparison. In hindsight I should've taken more time to acclimate the plant...but the tend to be pretty hardy so it'll probably do well regardless.

Although I'm not 100% on this...I think the Leather Fern is showing signs of low ambient humidity. I initially had my humidifier running in my house, and it was doing fine. I shut it off over the past 3 days, and yesterday noticed slight blackening at the tips and edges of the leaves, particularly the ones furthest from the water's surface. I'm debating whether I should just run my humidifier (which I _should _ do for the sake of my allergies), or invest in a canopy and play around with humidity levels in the tank. I also moved my light fixture so that it's sitting over the front of the tank, further away from the emersed plants...which should help. I started misting the tank twice a day as well. I'm tempted to pick up a cheap hygrometer...I'm willing to bet the relative humidity in my house is below 30% on most days.

Also...so far so good on the mangroves. Had a little scare when I transplanted them (which I shouldn't have done :icon_redf ), but so far they've all seem to be inching towards the light.


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## jahmic (Jan 30, 2011)

Sd760 said:


> Subd


:icon_mrgr


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## Rockhoe14er (Jan 19, 2011)

great looking tank.


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Hey this is a quick note.

That leather fern should be fine with low-ish humidity. I have been growing those in open-top tanks with humidity <40% and they are fine. If it looks like it is drying it is probably just because it softened a bit while in the box during shipping.


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## jahmic (Jan 30, 2011)

hydrophyte said:


> Hey this is a quick note.
> 
> That leather fern should be fine with low-ish humidity. I have been growing those in open-top tanks with humidity <40% and they are fine. If it looks like it is drying it is probably just because it softened a bit while in the box during shipping.


Ah, good to know. I thought you had mentioned that, but had some trouble finding it when I went digging through the PMs. I'll just let it be and see what happens then. All of the black edges are on the newer leaves, so it doesn't surprise me that it may just have been due to shipping.


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## jahmic (Jan 30, 2011)

This thread is long overdue for an update...so this'll be a lengthy one. I'll try to go chronologically, and may break things up a bit post-by-post to keep it somewhat organized. A lot has gone on since April 


*Substrate and water parameters*

Last update I think my ammonia was 2.0, which I though was high. Nope. That MGO leached a bunch of ammonia in my tank soon after that. The time spent checking the water and doing daily changes kept me from doing an update for a good week. The ammonia spiked well over 8.0, it was off the charts. And yes...my kit was calibrated. At one point, I actually came home, saw it was at 8.0 yet again, did a 25% change, checked, and it was STILL reading 8.0. No bueno.

I'm pretty sure that killed the bacteria that I seeded the filter with, because it took another 2 weeks before I noticed any natural drop in ammonia levels, and that was only after adding more plants to the tank, which most likely introduced more beneficial bacteria to the tank. No nitrites had been showing up until then either.

Also...once again I apologize for low quality on the pics. I'm usually too lazy to take out my flash and tripod...especially when my main computer crashed and I have no access to photoshop  Hopefully I get that squared away soon.


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## jahmic (Jan 30, 2011)

*Submersed plants*

I started off with Hygro Tiger and Sunset, various crypts, pennywort, anubias, HM, stargrass, and java fern (I'll get the first post updated with a sp. list soon).

The murky water caused by the driftwood and MGO substrate had a real effect on light getting into the tank. The stargrass and HM pretty much dissolved and disappeared. I also ended up with the typical crypt-melt. Here are some pics to show the damage done:


This used to be a Crypt Wendtii red that I took out of my nano tank. It had about 10 6" long leaves...womp womp










A wendtii bronze that melted to a stump.










Some signs of new growth on the wendtii red (new root and an offshoot)









Just next to the driftwood...A battered crypt. lucens holding on to one last leaf









Hygro sunset and a melted stem of hygro tiger covered in dead plant matter









This little area of hygrophila stems kept melting and breaking off just above the substrate, so I kept replanting. Eventually they began to root down











Remnants of fungus that was covering all of the driftwood...there was a good 2-3mm layer on there at one point. Gross and it smelled AWFUL.


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## jahmic (Jan 30, 2011)

There was also a nasty layer of detritus covering the substrate from all the melting plants in the tank...as well as the fungus that had been growing on the driftwood but was now peeling off. Vacuuming didn't seem to help all that much since I ended up pulling out plants with the pressure from the siphon...by the time I replanted them, just as much filth was kicked up from the substrate.

So, I added a koralia nano to the tank and moved it around for about a week and used it to basically blow the detritus off the substrate, driftwood, and plants.

Also added some purigen to the filter. After about a week, this is the improvement I saw:

before:










after:










The water in the last pic was still a little cloudy at that point...it looked like a bacterial bloom. I think this was right around when the ammonia levels started to climb pretty rapidly.


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## jahmic (Jan 30, 2011)

*Emersed plants*

Short and simple: the schefflera died, lol. It took a few days, then everytime I touched it, a few leaves would fall off. I ended up taking it out...but for fun I knocked all the leaves off first. I should've snapped a pick of the spindles sticking out of the planter. so sad.

The Rubex is worked out well. It definitely started to curl up it's winter leaves...they were large, waxy, and bold in color. The new growth is much smaller leaves, more compact growth, and the reds are less pronounced. Pretty much what I expected. It still looks good, and is sending up new shoots daily. I ended up clipping off the old curled up leaves...I found they were harboring small colonies of aphids :angryfire I've been using a spray bottle filled with conditioned water and using the "jet" setting to blast them off the plants and into the water. Fun, but probably minimally effective. I'll be dunking the plants overnight if I see them getting out of hand.

The leather fern and mangroves are doing great. I'll try to get a picture of the leather fern later, I'm counting 7 new leaves coming out of the planter right now, all under 2" long...looks like the growth is about to explode on this plant; can't wait to see it once it fills in a bit more.

Also added a Ruellia brittoniana (mexican petunia) in one of the corners...and moved things around a little. Here's the emersed growth about 2 weeks ago...I've added stuff since, we'll get to that later 









(Also put a little coconut hut in the corner...and...is that a fish?)


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## jahmic (Jan 30, 2011)

That last pic is a nice lead in to some more progress on the submersed growth. 

I added a few more species of crypts, including some parva to the front of the tank to form a little carpet. My lfs had bundles of about 6-8 decent-sized plantlets for only 3 dollars...I couldn't pass that up. By this time my nitrites were starting to climb and the ammonia was coming back down. Adding those crypts definitely boosted the cycle...3 days later my ammonia and nitrites were reading zero; the nitrates were about 5-10 depending on the time of day.

Then I went back to the lfs the next weekend...


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## jahmic (Jan 30, 2011)

*Fauna!*

I found some local tank bred German Blue Rams at the lfs, and couldn't pass it up. I brought home a male and a...female? Here are the pics:

The alpha male is on the left...and the "other fish" is on the right. Notice the red belly.










Another shot of the submissive fish.










Pretty good shot of the alpha male:










I watched these 2 for a week in the tank. The alpha quickly started claiming territory in the tank. At first they got along fine, then would split the tank up at feeding time. The alpha wouldn't let the more submissive fish eat on his side of the tank, which was entertaining at first.

Then the two of them started fighting over this area in the middle of the tank. They would take turns flashing against the driftwood...hard enough to make a thump in the tank as the driftwood bumped up against the glass. At first I thought they were cleaning off a spawning area...but they were pretty aggressive in the approach, and if the submissive fish hit the driftwood first, the alpha would follow and then chase the submissive one out of the area...hover over the driftwood, and flare up at the other fish.

As interesting as this all was, the alpha eventually claimed the entire tank, and started viciously chasing the other fish. You can probably see in the above pics, but the more submissive one definitely had blue showing through the black spot, as well as a red belly. The fins were pretty questionable. 

After seeing the alpha get pretty aggressive in attacking the other fish, I went back to the lfs and decided to take a look at their tank again. Turned out ALL of the fish (aside from one or two) had red bellies. There were some obvious males in that tank that had red bellies along with the raised dorsal fin...they were locking lips occasionally and chasing a couple other dull looking fish in that tank. It was then that I realized those dull looking fish were stressed females, and I had 2 males at home.

I went to another tank that had about 5 GBRs from another breeder, and brought home 2 females...just to see what would happen. Here are some shots of the obvious females:





























I did take out the flash for these shots...but this was soon after introducing them, so I didn't take many shots and had the flash dialed down a lot so I didn't stress them. Hence the so-so quality. They've also colored up a bit since then, and lost their stress bars. I'll try to get some updated shots of the fauna later this week.

Suffice to say though, that first pair I introduced was a pair of males. As soon as I introduced the females, both males started courting them. Eventually the alpha got aggressive again, and wanted the submissive male out of the tank. I obliged and Rockhoe14er was nice enough to rehome the submissive male for me. I had placed him in my QT tank to see how the alpha would react with 2 females. He calmed down and started courting each of them.

Eventually, a dominant female emerged, and the submissive female started getting the same treatment as the submissive male...more or less. The alpha wasn't as aggressive as he was with the male, but as soon as the submissive female came out of hiding, she was chased away by the pair. They were actively looking for areas to spawn and court each other about 4 days after introducing the pair of females. Noahma was nice enough to take the submissive female home so that his male GBR had a potential partner 

So now...I'm left with a (hopefully) happy pair in the tank. They hang out together and search the substrate for food. Which...btw is pretty interesting in itself. When I feed, the female immediately grabs the bloodworms or brine shrimp (frozen) out of the water. In fact, she'll eat from my hand if I hold a cube in the tank with my fingers. The male has become more and more picky. He won't eat out of my hand, and tends to spit out the food when it's placed in the tank "fresh". When I feed, an alarm goes off in his head telling him it's time to spawn, and instead of eating, he courts the female. Then, about 2 hours later, he'll start picking scraps of food off the substrate and off the driftwood. At least he's eating I guess.

The 2 of them have also been snacking on ramshorn snails here and there. Then nip them off the driftwood, and if they fall with their backs on the ground, the GBRs pick them out of their shells. I'm not complaining, lol.

They have the tank divided up 50/50...the male claimed a small cave formed by the driftwood on the left side:










The female took the hut on the right of the tank:











The way the driftwood crosses from the back left corner of the tank to the front right has divided the tank up fairly evenly. The male has slightly more territory, but they've used the broken line-of-sight formed by the driftwood to mark their territory. Watching them flare at each other and "practice spawn" has been fun to watch. They'll both clean this one area right on the boundary where they've dug out a small pit...every once in a while they'll court each other there. For the most part though, the female tends to try to get the male to follow her back to the hut, and the male tries to chase the female over to his cave :icon_bigg 

Hopefully they decide on a location and I end up seeing some eggs soon.


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## jahmic (Jan 30, 2011)

Here's a bunch of current pics of the tank. Again, no flash yet until the fish get settled in. But, things are definitely growing and beginning to fill in. You can definitely see the crypts in various stages of growing back and melting. Also...the tank is still burping up small bubbles of CO2 from the substrate every minute or so. No huge eruptions, which is good...but the little bubbles still do deposit some dirt on the leaves, which is hard to ignore.











Added some HM...









Nice growth on the hygrophila tiger










Submersed shot










FTS










Trying to get some plants to train up the driftwood. Here's some hydrocotyle on the left, and HM on the right:



















Some bacopa...I basically wedged the base of the stems carefully between the 2 pieces of driftwood. We'll see if it does OK here...trying to get away with being creative since I don't have room for planters and it'd be awesome to have something crawling up this piece of wood.
































And...just for dramatic effect since I like making my tank look nicer/bigger than it is.


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## jahmic (Jan 30, 2011)

Oh..and you can probably tell from comparing the "submersed shot" above with the FTS that there have been some tannins added to the water. The purigen did a great job of clearing up the muck in the water, but it started to clear things up a little too much for my taste. I really did want to create more of a blackwater environment for the GBRs. I added a couple more almond leaves to the water, which finally ended up being enough where the purigen is leaving some tannins in the water...or can't keep up in removing them as quickly as they're introduced. Whatever the case, I like the effect. I'm sure I'll have to pull out one of the leaves at some point (there are 3 in there now, lol) once the purigen is due for recharging.

I can't figure if running purigen with the leaves is counterproductive or not...but I figure if there are tannins visible in the water, then it can't be COMPLETELY counterproductive. The male is noticeably less aggressive with the female after adding that 3rd leaf. It's debatable whether this is due to the tannins, or the cover provided by the additional leaf as it sits right next to his cave.


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## MikeP_123 (Aug 31, 2008)

hmmm, thats interesting that they both have separate "homes". Is this typical for a ram pair? I know that mine usually stayed in the same place, but then again that was the only real covered "territory" in the tank.


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## jahmic (Jan 30, 2011)

Funny you mention that...

Today I actually came back from grocery shopping and found both the male and the female hanging out in the hut. They also seem to be following each other around a bit more today...whereas usually the male was sort of chasing and courting the female before.

I dunno...maybe they're taking a while to bond? lol. EIther way, it definitely looks like they're getting along just fine. Maybe they needed to decide on a "home"...


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## jahmic (Jan 30, 2011)

My rams spawned!! :biggrin:

I got home from work and noticed the female and male both cleaning the front left corner of the tank, as they had been for the past day or so. The male's behavior over the past couple days had changed as well...he was much more docile, and only showing his full fins in response to the female. He would basically act submissive, which calmed the female down some and they had been spending much more time together, rather than him just playfully chasing her around. 

The female's vent was definitely extended when I got home from work, so it was looking like she may have been close to laying her eggs. I went out for a few hours and came back home to this:











The male has been hovering over the eggs and fanning them for the past hour since I've been back. Occasionally a piece of detritus will float near the pit and the male quickly scoops it up into his mouth and spits it out away from the pit...at first I thought he was eating the eggs, but so far so good. Luckily these 2 are in the tank alone for now...aside from some amano shrimp that they've already scared into the opposite corner of the tank. Ironically, the shrimp are hiding out in the coconut breeding hut.

They may have a bit to learn...well at least the male. He's been chasing the female away from the eggs. He doesn't pester her...but flares his fins and goes out toward the middle of the tank to ensure she retreats back to the hut. If either of them were going to eat the eggs...I'd bet it'd be the female though, as she pretty much devours most of the food at feeding time, while the male just tends to wait to pick stuff off the bottom a couple hours later.

We'll see how many (if any) eggs are left in the morning. Who knows if the male will give up watch, or will just get hungry.

I'm just happy that my rams are thriving :biggrin::biggrin:


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## Noahma (Oct 18, 2009)

congrats man. I hope my new male will spawn with the girl I got from you when he matures enough. I am still sat by the loss of the other male, but this one is healthy as a bull. 



jahmic said:


> My rams spawned!! :biggrin:
> 
> I got home from work and noticed the female and male both cleaning the front left corner of the tank, as they had been for the past day or so. The male's behavior over the past couple days had changed as well...he was much more docile, and only showing his full fins in response to the female. He would basically act submissive, which calmed the female down some and they had been spending much more time together, rather than him just playfully chasing her around.
> 
> ...


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## jahmic (Jan 30, 2011)

Oh the ups and downs of fishkeeping...

Although the female laid eggs, it was a pretty unsuccessful spawn for multiple reasons. For one...at about the 36 hr mark it was pretty apparent that the vast majority of the eggs weren't fertilized. There were a couple "maybes" in the group, but it wasn't promising at all. 

By Day 2 of the spawn, the male's aggressive temperament toward the female escalated quite a bit. He went from guarding and fanning the eggs to simply sitting over the nest and "eyeballing" the other side of the tank, just waiting for the female to come out of her (unused) breeding hut. I was able to feed her in that corner of the tank, but she didn't want to come out much. Reason? The male was intent on not having her around anymore. He went from flaring and chasing a little to outright attacking her. She was still pretty bold and would try to come out and explore ever 20 minutes or so, but it wasn't looking good.

I had a QT tank setup, but it was full of some recovering cardinals...which meant removing her wasn't the best option at the time. I decided that the next day (Day 3 of the spawn) I'd at least get a breeding net and float it in the tank for her. I figured if any fry hatched and the male's habits kept up, it'd be too much for the female. When I got home from work to check on things, it was obvious that the spawn was unsuccessful...the male abandoned the eggs by that point and fungus had spread through the nest. There were also some snails grazing on the eggs at that point. I figured that it was for the better though, since the female was now out of hiding and seemed to be getting along with the male.

Only one problem...she was injured. Either the male got a hold of her, or she ran into some driftwood trying to escape him at some point. She didn't look too bad, her color was still good and she was active and eating. Sadly though, her conditioned worsened through the day and she became lethargic.

By the time I pulled the cardinals from QT and started to drop acclimate them to the riparium (they'd been in QT for 2 weeks and were going to be moved this weekend anyway), the female was gray and sitting on the bottom of the tank 

I bagged her, floated the bag in the QT tank while I transferred the cardinals, and when I went to the QT tank...she was dead. 

So...I think I've pretty much given up on breeding these guys for the time being. Either my male is just has a serious case of intra-species aggression, or I should expect this every time. Having bred bettas in the past, I'm sort of used to this pattern, but was hoping to have some more "peaceful" spawns with a pair of rams.

I'll get pics of the tank up a little later today, most likely. The cardinals are in there now (9 altogether), and I put some new plants in the tank to alleviate the PTSD I acquired trying to save the female, haha.

I guess a couple more things worth mentioning: 

I checked my hardness and my GH is now 2 degrees higher than the tap water after topping off the tank for the past month. I know that at one point I used warm tap water (treated of course)...and figure that the mineral buildup in my hot water heater may have helped contribute to the increase in the tank's hardness...compounded with the fact that my tank evaporates about 2 gallons of water per week. I've been good about using a heater in the bucket to heat up the cold water, but I'm sure it's still contributing. 

So, I decided to perform the weekly top-offs with a mix of tap and RO water (~3:1) to keep the hardness down. Being that I'm topping off once a week, it's not too much of a hassle to get a 5-gallon bucket of R/O from the lfs once a month. I also ordered a TDS meter so I can do some quick checks on a regular basis...now that I dropped the goal of breeding these guys, I think I'll just focus on keeping the fish and plants as happy as possible.


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## VeeSe (Apr 16, 2011)

=(

Sad to hear about the female GBR. I was planning to get a pair for my 55G tank too, and now I'm more scared than before.


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## jahmic (Jan 30, 2011)

I wouldn't worry much...I think my male is just overly aggressive.

The 55g has a bigger footprint too...and if you're tank is pretty well established and heavily planted, it should keep them comfy and out of sight of each other if one decides to be "assertive".

I figured my tank broke up line of sight enough for them, but it definitely wasn't the case. Once things fill in some more, I'll probably end up giving it another go. I honestly probably should've waited to begin with...live and learn I suppose.


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## Noahma (Oct 18, 2009)

Sorry to hear about your female. so far, the one I got from you is doing great, they are never more than 4-6" apart from each other.


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

jahmic said:


> *Emersed plants*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hey that's looking great!

One trick that is really helpful for riparium setups is to cover the aquarium rear panel for at least the underwater part with a black background. This will hide the riparium planters and as the plants grow in they will almost disappear from view. I like to use black latex paint because it's pretty cheap and it comes off again real easy. Paint doesn't stick to glass very well, so it's important to carefully clean with Windex or something like that to remove all of the dirt and finger smudges.


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## jahmic (Jan 30, 2011)

Definitely due for an update here...

I still need to update the first post, and upload some pics of the progress over the past several months, but here is a vid for now. Actually took this for hydrophyte, but figured it'd be a worthy addition to the thread.

http://static.photobucket.com/playe...et.com/albums/a333/rmitchell726/VIDEO0062.mp4


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

That's looking good. You got some nice new fish in there.

Those two plants over on the right of the video (the pink one and the other one with similar leaves) are _Syngonium_ varieties. Those can be nice for adding color. They usually root pretty well too.

Did that leather fern flake out on you? That is usually such an easy plant. I saw that you had started with one from one of those previous posts.

Nice job growing that _Pandanus_. As that plant grows up bigger you'll start seeing the prop roots too.

If you can apply a black background to that tank those planters will just disappear.


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## jahmic (Jan 30, 2011)

I remember you mentioning that before, and had been wanting to do that for a while. I initially held off since I was planning to raise the water level. Once that was done I stuck with the white background for a bit longer; raising the water meant raising the lights, and the background was supplementing the poor reflector in my coralife T5NO fixture...not very well, but enough to support my laziness. Lol

Finally upgraded the lighting today, allowing me to raise the lights above the emersed growth and still get light to the substrate. Just went with the coralife T5HO dual fixture...the reflector actually works and light is hitting the back corners of my tank again.

Figured since my lighting issue is resolved, I should stop being lazy though...so I swapped the background. Here are the before and after shots Excuse the quality...posting and taking pics from my phone these days :/






















I'm contemplating also running the black background on the lower portion of the right glass. The left glass will have to remain all white, as the outside of that end if the tank is visible from the doorway. It would just look awkward having a trash bag hanging from my tank...in case you were wondering what u used for a background. I also plan on adding a planter to the right glass toward the foreground. Since that area will have more emersed growth, I think the black background on that side would be appropriate, as it would represent the "riverbank"...the left side of the tank could remain open and represent the open water. At least that's what I see in my mind...hope it makes sense and I can bring it all together.


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## jahmic (Jan 30, 2011)

Oh, and yes I lost my leather fern. In fact I lost all of my emersed growth at one point to an aphid invasion. I did get rid of them, but by that time the damage was done and I lost plants one by one. In the end, the solution to the pests was simple...removing the glass top dropped the humidity and they stopped thriving.

Slowly learning and getting this tank up to par.


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## AhVy (Mar 5, 2012)

So interesting...any updates?


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## jahmic (Jan 30, 2011)

AhVy said:


> So interesting...any updates?


My sygnonium is thriving for sure. The pandanus is doing well...just a bit sensitive to changes in water level. I had some roots die off and it began to drop the lower leaves, but still looks healthy.

Here are a few shots of the crazy growth from the sygnonium. Unfortunately it has started to shade the crypts below. I may trim it back soon and try to root the cuttings so that I can primarily keep sygnonium as emersed growth with the pandanus as a nicr centerpiece. Debating putting the glass canopy back on as well...the baby panda bamboo is not liking the dry air here. I will give it some time though to see if it eventually adjusts and starts growing though, as I'd hate to compromise the sygnonium.


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## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

Awesome growth, congrats


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## jahmic (Jan 30, 2011)

Wow...my last FTS was over a year ago!? :icon_conf

Sorry for the lack of updates, I've been without a home computer for some time now...but I just solved that issue today so I should have more regular updates. Also...I've admittedly been a bit distracted by the SW world, as I now also have a couple reefs running at home. 

Anyway, the tank has been pretty much on cruise control. I hadn't added many submersed plants since the last FTS was posted, but I've played around with different emersed plants with limited success. The sygnonium is still doing great, although I am getting very tall, "leggy" growth out of it. Since the last pic of the emersed growth, I cut the plant back and now just have 3 planters of sygnonium growing emersed....but they all grow toward the center of my Coralife fixture and seem to be lacking enough light to get bushier growth toward the back wall. I'm not sure if that's just the nature of this plant, or if it's something that can be remedied with more light...but I decided to get a red/blue par 38 bulb that I mounted to the side of the tank, pointing across the back. The light only hits the emersed growth, so I shouldn't have any algae issues...it'll be interesting to see if this makes any difference. My goal is to keep my emersed growth from blocking the light going down into the tank; if the sygnonium doesn't change it's growth pattern I might try either a grassy plant, or just get something that grows much shorter to keep in the planters.

Here are some recent photos, prior to adding the par38 bulb...which just went online today. In the pics below, the only plants added to the tank since the last FTS are the Ranunculus inundatus and the sunset hygrophila. I got some great growth out of my C. parva, which has formed a nice grassy mat in the front of the tank





































The one disappointment for me has been my Cryptocoryne balansae...I wanted to fill in the back corners of the tank with it, but it keeps growing 3-4 leaves, sending out a runner, then melting down to a nub. I've been utilizing root tabs, but haven't seen any improvement. I have about 4-5 short plants of 2-3 leaves in each corner, but it just won't grow well for me. Yesterday I picked up some hygrophila corymbosa 'siamensis' from a friends 120 gal. I'm going to give the plant a few weeks to settle in and may prune the lower leaves if they start to drop. He was running CO2 and 300W of metal halide over his tank...so the plants are nice and healthy but are probably getting a bit less light in my tank. I also figure if I wait a month, it should give a more accurate picture of my tank's condition...of course it looks great at this point, but I suspect things will change as the narrow leaf hygro settles in.

I had some difficulty shooting this tank after taking pics of my reefs over the past year, since I don't use a flash for those tanks. I do like the natural feel of the pics posted above, but I did end up with a few dark spots I didn't care for so much...hopefully I can get back into practice.

I also picked up a macro lens, but haven't had the chance to play with it in combination with my flash. I did still manage to get a decent fish shot with the kit lens though...here's my male killi garneri...and a few of my beckfordi pencilfish. They're both tank favorites, and the pencilfish always seem to school wherever the killifish is hanging out. :icon_bigg










The current fish list for the tank is:

- 1 male killi gardneri (had a pair but sadly lost the female due to a power outage)
- 8 cardinal tetras
- 8 beckford's pencilfish
- 3 rummynose tetras
- 1 male honey gourami
- 5 panda cories

All the fish have been established in the tank for at least 9 months...aside from the panda cories which were just added over the past week.


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