# Help ID Deficiency Please



## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

Which deficiency(ies) please?
I have a 50 gallon aquarium
5 T5 bulbs with two on for 10 hours and all five for a couple
EI fertilization
two bubbles a sec CO2
weekly 50% water change then 3/4 tsp Ultimate GH Booster (GLA)
MWF 1/2 tsp KNO3, 1/8 tsp KH2PO4, 1/8 K2SO4
TTh 1/8 tsp Plantex CSM+B (GLA)
Pfertz root tabs
Daily 1 tsp Seachem Excel
First pic holes in Anubias Nana (they are really only getting nutrients from water column as they are attached to driftwood).
Note the degraded edges of cryptocoryne spiralis in second pic.
Also any ID on the rust green colored leaves in second pic (also lots of holes here)?
Lots of other fast growing plants, not necessarily shown, growing just fine: alternanthera reineckii, hydrocotyle tripartita mini, hydrocotyle verticillata, ludwigia-arcuata, riccia fluitans, rotala-rotundifolia-ceylon for example.
Thank you!
https://imgur.com/Jg79jHv
and
https://imgur.com/Bxoo4Vm
OR see below


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi @dmastin,

Do you know any of your water parameters?

pH?
dKH?
dGH?
NO3 ppm?

Please provide any of the above if you can please.


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## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

pH runs about 7.1 pre CO2 to 6.8 before bubbles off.
36ppm CaCO3=2.1kH
RO water is 3-5 ppm TDS
Sun pre GH booster before fertz begins 110ppm TDS post GH booster 143ppm TDS
up to Sat post micros 222ppm TDS
77.6F


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi @dmastin,

In the first picture, is that new leaf emerging pretty much as 'white' as it appears in the photo?


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## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

As I just look new growth is light green. I can't see anything approaching white, must be the camera. These Anubias have been in the tank for years and I've never notice any color issues. I have added lots of new plants lately and started seeing the holes, however.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi @dmastin,

It appears to be a calcium issue, but it is difficult to tell from the two pictures. Could you provide more pictures of a few more species please, maybe quicker growing species like stem plants?


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## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

Three pics:

























Bump: Note the plant with lots of holes in the second pic is only getting nutrients from water column as it's just attached to some driftwood.
BTW, what is this plant?
thanks


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## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

So calcium deficiency?
Hmm, might make sense.
We have well water that's full of everything and so I'd NEVER added any GH Booster.
Then I bought a RO system a couple of years ago and forgot I might need to be adding back minerals!
I only started adding GH Booster a month ago.
Currently I'm adding 3/4 tsp of GH booster with every weekly 50% water change.
Should I up it to 1 tsp weekly?
Are there disadvantages to too much GH booster?


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

holes in leaves is probably potassium


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi @dmastin,

Sorry, long power outage here in the area south of Seattle....major wind with snow in the mountains.....sending it your way!

Yes, definately calcium (Ca) also magnesium (Mg) - do you see the Cryptocoryne wendtii 'Bronze'(?) leaves on the right side of the top photo and how they are 'cupped' downward along the margins? 'Cupped' older leaves (either upward or downward) is a symptom of a need for more magnesium. The holes in the leaves seem to be occurring on both new emerging leaves and older leaves; if it was just older leaves I would agree with @Chlorophile that potassium might be needed. The spots of necrosis (dead tissue/holes) could be the result of the calcium deficiency but since Seachem Equilibrium adds calcium, magnesium, and potassium we will have all three covered.

I'd like you to keep everything the same; same lights, same photoperiod, same dosing frequency and quantities of nutrients as you have been doing. All I would like you to do is increase the GH Booster that you are dosing. Do an initial dose of one (1) teaspoon per 10 gallons. When you do a water change add 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons of new water added to the the tank. Now the hard part...............wait two weeks. Don't look at your existing leaves, they will not change. Watch the new leaves as they emerge after you start dosing the Equilibrium, they should look straighter with little to no deformities and little to no 'scalloped' leaf margins and the new leaves on that stem plant should no longer 'hook' downward. Determining if the magnesium issues is resolved or not will take longer, you will have to wait for the new leaves that appear mature. As they mature they should no longer 'cup' as the current ones are doing and if potassium is causing the holes in the leave they should not occur. Keep us posted as things progress, pictures are always appreciated. Questions...just ask!


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## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

Sorry to hear about your power outage.
As I understand...
Ca and Mg deficiency are likely.
Holes in new leaves are less suggestive of K deficiency.
Necrosis are suggestive of Ca deficiency.
Then you mention Seachem Equilibrium which I am NOT adding.
You suggest only changing one variable at a time.
You suggest an initial dose of 1 tsp of GH Booster per ten gallons and same when adding new water.
Then you counsel patience.
...
Ok, sounds great except let me know if the fact I'm NOT adding Seachem Equilibrium would alter your advice, I am adding GLA Ultimate GH Booster.
Maybe you were using the terms Equilibrium and Ultimate GH Booster Booster interchangeably as Ultimate GH Booster does contain Ca, Mg, and K.
I will assume this is the case and your advice is unchanged.
I understand the importance of varying one element at a time and I am comfortable with the EI routine that I have.
I am not much into tweaking this and that.
So, I'll increase the GH Booster and keep you updated!
*Thanks so much* and stay warm!

STRIKE
weekly 50% water change then 
3/4 tsp Ultimate GH Booster (GLA)
REPLACE WITH 
Initially dose of 1 tsp of GH Booster per ten gallons.
weekly 50% water change and
add 1 tsp GH Booster per ten gallons of new water

everything else as was...
MWF 1/2 tsp KNO3, 1/8 tsp KH2PO4, 1/8 K2SO4
TTh 1/8 tsp Plantex CSM+B (GLA)
Pfertz root tabs
Daily 1 tsp Seachem Excel

Ultimate GH Booster from GLA contains:
Ca 3.3739 %
Mg 4.0921 %
K 19.7483 %
S 16.1958 %


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi @dmastin,

Although our friends at GLA do not give us the ingredients in their GLA GH Booster is is likely based upon Tom Barr's recipe of DIY GH Booster (as it aquariumfertilizer.com and Nilocg.com); approximately:


> "Barrs GH Booster contains magnesium sulfate (1 part), calcium sulfate (3 parts) and potassium sulfate (3 parts) by weight. It is an excellent water conditioner. If there are difficulties with solubility you can add a very small amount (1 tsp to 500 ml water) of cider vinegar to increase solubility"


Yes, you can use the GLA Booster instead of Seachem Equilibrium. Looking forward to seeing your results!


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## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

Regarding GLA Ultimate GH Booster, this is all I know and was sent to me by Orlando from GLA:
Ca 3.3739 %
Mg 4.0921 %
K 19.7483 %
S 16.1958 %

I will keep you updated!
Thank you again.


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## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

Chugging along. New leaves seem to be looking better. I'll provide photos after a few more days.
Was stunned tonight used my Alkalinity Colorimeter HI775 Hanna Checker - Fresh Water and found 36ppm CaCO3=2.1kH exactly what I had before adding the extra Ultimate GH Booster (UGHB) (initial 1tsp per 10 gallons and then 1tsp per 10 gallons Sun with 50% water change).
So I added another 1 tsp Ultimate GH Booster (with the words I'm not a tweaker running through my head) and after a while found a measurement of 52ppm CaCO3 so I know at least the instrument can return something other than 36ppm.
Still, I was surprised.
Currently I've added an initial 1tsp per 10 gallons of UGHB and then 1tsp per 10 gallons of new water and then an extra 1tsp in a 50 gallon tank (more like 45 gallons with substrate and a giant piece of driftwood and plant mass).
So still pretty low.
But I guess I should advise myself that how the plants respond is more important than a number?
thanks for any thoughts
David


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi @dmastin (aka David)

I'm glad you have started the dosing. Calcium (Ca) being an immobile nutrient results in the deficiency showing up on the new leaves so we can see the results (or not) of changes in our dosing of an immobile nutrient very quickly. However magnesium (Mg) is a mobile nutrient and deficiencies the symptoms show up either on recently matured or matured leaves so we may wait several weeks to know if any changes in dosing improve deficiency symptoms. Thank you for keeping us posted! -Roy


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## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

Ca immobile.
Mg mobile.
Ok, interesting.
Still plugging along, took this about an hour ago...


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## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

One week has passed
Let me know if anyone has thoughts!
new leaf pics below
dosing with GLA UGH Booster 1 tsp per 10g
water seems stable at 33-36ppm CaCO3 
other notes:
Yesterday 6 in 1 test strip reveals:
40ppm Nitrate NO3
0 Nitrite NO2
50 GH ppm
0 ppm chlorine
40 KH ppm Total Alkalinity
7.0 pH
end of day TDS before water change 253ppm
Sunday after 50% water change (i.e. 25g of 50g)
added 2.5 tsp of GLS Ultimate GH Booster
resulted in 175ppm TDS and 
33ppm CaCO3
*New leaves of Anubias*








*New Rotala leaves look better*








*New Ludwigia leaves look ok*


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi @dmastin

Yes, they do look better. The larger Anubias leaf on the left in the first photo may have already been forming when you started the additional Ca, Mg, K dosing. Let's see what one more week brings before making any changes. Thank you for the update! 
-Roy


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## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

Thanks Roy.
Was just reading Chlorophile in The Custom Micro Mix Thread next door where they wrote...
"When the only limiting factor is co2 things are going to be volatile"
I'm relatively sure my RO water only without booster was my limiting factor, but for the future I am looking forward to discussing CO2.
A couple or three weeks ago I had a bear of a time failing to install an inline CO2 diffuser, but with my new Fluval Rubber Adapter for Ribbed Hosing I think I'm going to have it solved.
Not yet though, relax, I "says" to myself.


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## Surf (Jun 13, 2017)

> Was stunned tonight used my Alkalinity Colorimeter HI775 Hanna Checker - Fresh Water and found 36ppm CaCO3=2.1kH exactly what I had before adding the extra Ultimate GH Booster (UGHB) (initial 1tsp per 10 gallons and then 1tsp per 10 gallons Sun with 50% water change).


Dmastin, The alkalinity meter (I have one) measures carbonates (KH) not harness (GH). To illustrate this I prepared two samples of water and used the HI775 to measure the alkalinity of each. Pure RODI water (GH zero) (TDS 1ppm) had a KH of 23. The second sample RODI water (TDS 1ppm) with my home made GH booster and it also had a KH of 23. The KH test only measures carbonates not calcium or magnesium. I don't know why you had a shift in your meter reading but it probably was not directly due to the increased GH.




> EI fertilization
> two bubbles a sec CO2
> weekly 50% water change then 3/4 tsp Ultimate GH Booster (GLA)
> MWF 1/2 tsp KNO3, 1/8 tsp KH2PO4, 1/8 K2SO4
> TTh 1/8 tsp Plantex CSM+B (GLA)


Note if increasing your GH does solve your problem I would ensure you to drop the K2SO4 from your EI dosing. Why?, it is in your GH booster and you are probably adding more K2SO4 with each Gh dose. According to the GLA web site your GH booster is made from calcium sulfate, magnesium sulfate, and potassium sulfate.

K2 SO4 is primarily added in EI dosing to add sulfur to the water (sulfur is a needed plant nutrient) You GH has calcium sulfate, magnesium sulfate and potassium sulfate. At this point in time you don't need any more sulfate. Also plants need more nitrogen than potassium. So adding KNO3 and KPO4 automatically means you likely have more potassium than needed. While adding too much of these nutrients is normally not harmful. I see no benefit to adding more K2SO4 when your GH booster is supplying it.

Keep us updated on how it goes.


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## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

GH vs KH, ok lemme think about his.
Yeah, according to my EI dosing table K2SO4 is not included when adding GH Booster.
Sounds like a good change for the end of this two week period of observing the effects of GH Booster, thank you Surf.
Other notes:
Here are notes regarding the plants I installed right before I began the new dosing. This information is perhaps less diagnostic than understanding how what is in the tank now is growing, but interesting. I’m not sure if the history of these recently placed plants is more of a function of what’s easy to grow vs more difficult or a reflection of plants more sensitive to Ca and Mg problems (assuming that was my primary deficit).
Rotala Ceylon and H’Ra, mixed
Pipeworts Eriocaulon, unknown or dead
Alteranthea Reineckii, growing
Riccia Fluitans, thriving
Pogostemon Erectus, dead
Hydrocotyle verticillate, growing
Glossostigma Elatinoides, growing
Pogostemon Helferi, died
Ludwigia Arcuata, died
Hygrophila Pinnatifida, died
Hydrocotyle tripartite, thriving
Cyperus Helferi, growing
Cryptocoryne spiralis, growing


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## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

What are good options in measuring KH?
What are good options for increasing HK in RO water?
I just read nilocG's ReKHarb?
Thanks!



Surf said:


> Dmastin, The alkalinity meter (I have one) measures carbonates (KH) not harness (GH). To illustrate this I prepared two samples of water and used the HI775 to measure the alkalinity of each. Pure RODI water (GH zero) (TDS 1ppm) had a KH of 23. The second sample RODI water (TDS 1ppm) with my home made GH booster and it also had a KH of 23. The KH test only measures carbonates not calcium or magnesium. I don't know why you had a shift in your meter reading but it probably was not directly due to the increased GH.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

I see measuring KH is inexpensive, at least the liquid test kits.
Increasing *KH* seems to be possible, e.g.
"Using baking soda to increase kH. Reference this website http://www.drhelm.com/aquarium/chemistry.html : 1 teaspoon of baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) in 50L of water will raise it by 4 dkH. It is also cautious not to increase more than 2 dkH in 24 hours so as not to stress the fish." 
I see other options such as REKHARB | LIQUID KH BOOSTER and AQUAVITRO CARBONATE KH BOOSTER.
Are there any advantages to using these products over baking soda?



dmastin said:


> What are good options in measuring KH?
> What are good options for increasing HK in RO water?
> I just read nilocG's ReKHarb?
> Thanks!


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## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

After a bit of research on this forum I'm coming to the consensus that KH is not something to worry about.
I read that justifications about pH swings without KH are unfounded (secondary citation though).


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi @dmastin et al,

We discussed dKH at a talk given by Tom Barr. Tom indicated that unless it was extreme he did not worry about dKH as long as it was sufficient to keep the pH from plummeting when injecting CO2. Personally since my dKH from the tap comes out <1.0 I add sufficient baking soda (aka sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO3) / *not baking powder*) to increase my dKH in the 3.0 - 4.0 range.


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## plurmaster (Jan 22, 2009)

I'm learning a lot from this thread but hope your plants bounce back dmastin


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## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

Thanks Roy!
I got KH and GH kinda topsy turvey in my head there, but I think I've got them straight now.
My fancy electronic instrument measures KH only. My KH has been running about 36ppm CaCO3=2.1kH, a bit low, not surprising as I'm now using 100% RO water. 
So I might add a bit of sodium bicarbonate (not baking powder) to increase kH to 3-4.
My GH I can only estimate, as it's from a test strip to be about 50ppm.
And with your advice I am already adding GH Booster to deal with likely Ca and Mg deficiencies.
With the two week deadline approaching I'm looking forward to posting more pictures.
Thanks plurmaster! 
It's always nice to have a fresh thread to learn from.
I think my plants look better than they ever have, I'm just hoping to upgrade my skills.
So it's more like bouncing up rather than bouncing back, he, he.
I am also reading the neighboring thread "The Custom Micro Mix Thread" where folks are discussing specific ratios of traces and suggests to me there's plenty of room to bounce!


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi @dmastin 

Glad to hear that you feel you plants are doing better, that's what is great about forum we can share ideas and knowledge and hopefully others will benefit. Looking forward to your new pics, especially if the newest leaves are the Anubias are starting to improve.


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## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

I'm looking forward to posting new pics, but I'm seeing holes in new growth.
I think we still have a deficiency to deal with.
I've stocked up on test kits, still only have the one meter (KH).
GH changes color at three drops or 53.7
KH also changes color at three drops or 3.0, meter reads 2.1kH.
TDS 235 which is typical for a Saturday (EI method).
pH 6.9 with a calibrated meter
My pH only drops .1-.2 across a day of CO2 1-2 bubbles per second.
I still have an inline CO2 diffuser I might install.
Stay tuned...


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## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

Current conditions
Test strip
30 NO3 Nitrate
0 NO2 Nitrite
50 GH
0 Chlorine
40 KH
7.0 PH
Other test kits
Ammonia 0
PH 6.8
kH 42 by meter 3 drop titration by liquid
TDS 178ppm
Copper <_ .1 ppm
Nitrite 0
Nitrate by liquid 30-35
GH 3 drops 53.7

50 gallons (36 L x 18W x 19H inches)
EI dosing (1/2tsp KNO3 and 1/8tsp KHPO4 MWF; 1/8tsp CSM+B TThSat, 2.5tsp GH Booster Sun, 3 squirts ReKharb Sun, 1tsp Excel most days except Sunday; 50% water change Sunday replacement water 100% RO)
Pictures seem to show continued holes in new anubias leaves green up quickly, but with holes.
Other leaves of other plants seem fine, but I might not know.
See pictures below.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi dmastin,

I would say overall then new leaves are looking better than the previous leaves. Most of the leaves on the various species, including the anubias, are looking straighter than before; how has the growth rate been?


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## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

Seems like the top leaves on the Alternanthera reineckii are turning green. I don't think they are transitioning to red as I don't remember the green. Seems like they are turning green.

Bump: Cool, straighter is something that my eye doesn't catch, just not enough experience I suppose.
Regarding growth the Ludwigia Inclinata var. Verticillata Cuba there in the front seems to be growing really well.
I'm kinda surprised that many of the Rotala stems seemed to have failed to thrive, but a few seem good, otherwise everything seems good to me.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi @dmastin,

Let's go one more week at the current dosing and see how the plants do. Don't forget to add Equilibrium if you do a water change; we may 'bump' the dose up a little more since we seem to be seeing improvement. If you want to do some trimming of the stem plants that are starting to cover the surface that would be fine.


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## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

Alright cool, I'm adding GLA's Ultimate GH Booster at 1tsp per 10 gallons of replaced water.
I'll report back in a a week!


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## alewife (Mar 4, 2018)

You have a beautiful aquarium. Thanks for including such detailed posts! I hope the states of your plants continue to improve.


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## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

Thank you alewife, that is very sweet!
Unfortunately, all I know how to do is let things grow.
I'm just terrible pruning, in and out of the aquarium, so all I really know is the jungle look.
I'll keep posting!



alewife said:


> You have a beautiful aquarium. Thanks for including such detailed posts! I hope the states of your plants continue to improve.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

If your GH is 50ppm and KH is 21 ppm that's a very good place to be for plants, I'd leave those parameters right where they are.
Was the 50 ppm GH out of the tap or after adding gh booster?

I know you mentioned you are bad at pruning, but the next logical step to improving plant health would be to top your stem plants, remove the old growth that may have lost some leaves, and then replant the healthy tops.
Anubias also appreciated removal of old leaves, any with too much holes in the leaves or green spot algae can go.
If you're feeling frisky you can take a razorblade and cut the rhizome too, between two sets of leaves make two cuts and remove a small piece of the rhizome and new growth will come from both split ends making it look more full


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## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

Hi Chlorphile,
Our well water is staggeringly laden with iron so I don't use it.
I only use RO water. 
The re-mineralized RO water is 50 ppm GH when matching color with a test strip.
When using a liquid test kit it takes three drops to change color which is 53.7 ppm GH.
...
Oh I remove unhelathy stuff. I'm fine with that.
Sometimes if I've removed lots of Anubias leaves due to algae growth I'll score/cut the rhizome.
Oh geeze, I'm reading and responding to your post one line at a time! he he
I should have time tomorrow so I will make sure and...
top and replant stem plants
remove old leaves, any with too many holes, and any with too much algae
and if there are some gaps gap the rhizome (I've always just tried to make cuts and never deliberately remove a section that sounds good)
...
also I've been trying NOT to tweak anything as Roy holds my hand, but I did add three squirts of ReKHarb yesterday making my KH more like 40 rather than the 21 you mentioned
I've never added anything to attempt to modify KH. Well, I've never added anything to modify GH either and that's kinda how this got started I think
In any case, if there's any reason to maybe not go for the higher KH someone let me know
Thanks again Chlorophile!

Bump: I thought y'all might like this and it's kinda related as we might eventually get to talking about aquascaping.
There's a piece of big driftwood in there if you can't tell.
Here's a picture from 2009 when I first added my Eco-complete substrate, placed the driftwood, and the next day my first plants.


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## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

BTW, I've just been reading about mulm. 
If anyone would find it interesting, I should note since 2009 I've never changed the Eco-Complete substrate.
For these years I've fed the tank one frozen cube of brine shrimp, sometimes more, but never less.
At most I've vacuumed around the Anubias, but never given much attention to the substrate not worrying about mulm buildup.
If anyone would like pictures of over eight years of relatively undisturbed substrate just let me know.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

I just went through and did a heavy as heck substrate cleaning.. the mulm from 2 years was insane so I can only imagine. 

Personally I don't think it matters, kh 21, 30, 50. 
I have a few plants that have smoother leaves with less creases and crinkles at lower KH so I target a 1-2dKH
But overall I think you're at good levels, not much reason to go beyond that. 
Instead of relying on the test strips I'd dose your GH booster based on the amount of water you're changing. 
I.E. 40G tank with 20G waterchange, dose enough to bring that 20g up to your desired GH. 
If water changes are weekly it wont take long before your tank is always at that desired GH. 
I'm not sure if your product came with instructions explaining how much to add to how much water?


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## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

Another thought I just had after reading 75g Dutch Weed Farm
I should include information about my photoperiod and bulbs.
I have six T5 HO bulbs.
Three 39W 36" SUPER FLORA T5 Super Flora Giesemann POWERCHROME T5 Lamp
Three 39W 36" TROPIC T5 BULB Tropic Giesemann POWERCHROME T5 Lamp
The timer is set to run two bulbs from 15:00-23:00 two bulbs (8 hours)
Four bulbs from 16:00-19:00 four bulbs (3 hours)
So two bulbs running for 8 hours with three of those hours running six bulbs.
I'm a bit of a night owl so that's why the lights run from 3 in the afternoon to 11 in the evening. 
After reading the dutch weed farm journal I feel a bit boring with just two types of bulbs, he, he.
I try to replace the bulbs every year when I'm good.
I realize a PAR meter is ideal, but that's not going to happen.
Ok, so if anyone has any lighting comments let me know! Thanks!


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## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

Oh right right, that's mostly what this thread is about, i.e. how much GLA's Ultimate GH Booster should I be adding.
We started out noticing a deficiency and Roy suggested I up my GH dosing.
I started with an EI method dosing table suggesting for a 40-60g tank to go with 3/4 tsp GH Booster after a water change (Dosing Instructions).
Roy suggested I up this to 1 tsp per 10 gallons so at a 50% water change of my 50g aquarium that's 2.5tsp weekly.
So that's where we are currently.
Your advice is good, thank you.
Once I settle on a dose I should be able to have tank always at desired GH.
Thank you Chlorphile!



Chlorophile said:


> I just went through and did a heavy as heck substrate cleaning.. the mulm from 2 years was insane so I can only imagine.
> 
> Personally I don't think it matters, kh 21, 30, 50.
> I have a few plants that have smoother leaves with less creases and crinkles at lower KH so I target a 1-2dKH
> ...


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## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

Hey, would switching from CSM+B to Seachem Flourish be a problem?
Perhaps I'll wait until the end of the week though.
Anyone have a suggestion as to EI dosing with Flourish?
Should I try https://rotalabutterfly.com/?
Oh, the reason I'm thinking about the switch is I'm having trouble getting shrimp to live more than 48 hours.
I'm working on the shrimp problem here: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/88-shrimp-other-invertebrates/1244409-killer.html#post10843153
Thanks!


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

dmastin said:


> Oh right right, that's mostly what this thread is about, i.e. how much GLA's Ultimate GH Booster should I be adding.
> We started out noticing a deficiency and Roy suggested I up my GH dosing.
> I started with an EI method dosing table suggesting for a 40-60g tank to go with 3/4 tsp GH Booster after a water change (Dosing Instructions).
> Roy suggested I up this to 1 tsp per 10 gallons so at a 50% water change of my 50g aquarium that's 2.5tsp weekly.
> ...


hmm.. 
if you add 3 tsp to 25g of water every waterchange your only dosing 5ppm Ca and 5ppm Mg
6 tsp gets you 
K	62.6
S	51.34
Ca	10.7
Mg	12.97
That is just a hair over 1 dGh or ~22ppm. 
certainly not enough if you ask me, and I'd start questioning your 50ppm test result unless your RO water is letting a lot through.

Not convinced thats the product I'd want to use. 
Thats an enormous amount of K relative to Ca and Mg, even more than Seachem Equilibrium provides, which I am currently disatisfied with based solely on the amount of K.

1:1 Ca Mg ratio, 
I know ratios aren't everything, but I prefer a 2:1 or 3:1 Ca:Mg ratio and 4:1 is also common among those more experienced than I. 
So a ballpark range would be for your 25g of WC water to have 53.4 PPM of Ca and 17.8PPM of Mg
That would net you a 5GH in the new water, which over time would mean your tank GH would also be a 5GH. 
Maybe you should source Epsom Salt and Calcium Sulfate. 
MGs04 and CaSo4
I've been wanting to do the same honestly. 
Then you can provide exactly what you want and get the rest of your K from Normal NPK dosing. 

As far as switching from csmb to flourish, I don't know that I'd recommend it from a few different standpoints, mostly just because you'd have to use a lot of flourish to get what you need out of it with that much light and that many plants. 
You have a pretty good amount of light over that tank so if anything you may be low on micros.


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## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

Ok Chlorphile, I've got to digest this!
I won't be surprised if the verdict is more GH needed at the end of the observation period Sunday.
TDS of my RO water is about 6 or 7. I should test other parameters though.
Yeah when relying on test strips and even those drops there is a ton of error of measurement.
Ca	3.3739 %
Mg	4.0921 %
K	19.7483 %
S	16.1958 %
I wonder how this ratio was selected.
Epsom Salt and Calcium Sulfate, ok (MGs04 (Magnesium sulfate) and CaSo4) looks like that would be pretty easy to source (Dry Fertilizer - Individual Fertilizer - NilocG Aquatics).
Seems like going ahead and ordering wouldn't hurt. What's holding you back?
Right, it occurred to me, but I haven't calculated the Flourish dose. I've been brainstorming ways to make my aquarium more shrimp friendly or I should say less shrimp deadly.
Thanks a bunch Chlorphile!


----------



## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

What's up with this?
For a couple of days these spots were green and today transparent.
Note that the roots of this plant likely do not reach the substrate.
(I understand that it has been suggested that most fertilizer is taken via the water column.)
The smaller plants do have roots in the substrate.

















Bump: Also eight or nine years of mulm fun!


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

dmastin said:


> What's up with this?
> For a couple of days these spots were green and today transparent.
> Note that the roots of this plant likely do not reach the substrate.
> (I understand that it has been suggested that most fertilizer is taken via the water column.)
> The smaller plants do have roots in the substrate.


Hi @dmastin,

My Nymphoides hygrophylla (aka 'Taiwan') does that as well, we are still low on calcium. What those clear areas are is the "gelatinous" look that is described in the deficiency symptoms. The NiloCG GH Booster states that it is a 1:3:3 ratio of Mg:Ca:K so it does have a 3:1 Ca:Mg ratio. Based upon your most recent photos additional Ca and Mg both seem to be deficient. Go ahead and add an additional 1/2 teaspoon of GH Booster per 10 gallons tonight, and an additional 1/2 teaspoon per 10 gallons tomorrow evening. When you do water changes add 2 teaspoons of GH Booster per 10 gallons of new water. We will re-start the 2 week countdown and if you could give progress reports as we go that would be great. We will get there! -Roy



> I. Symptoms appearing first or most severely on new growth (root and shoot tips, new leaves)
> 
> A. Terminal bud usually dies. Symptoms on new growth.
> 
> ...


----------



## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

Hey Roy,
You may be thinking of the fact I used some NiloCG ReKHarb to up KH a bit.
For GH I've been using
Ultimate GH Booster from GLA contains:
Ca 3.3739 %
Mg 4.0921 %
K 19.7483 %
S 16.1958 %
which looks like a ratio Mg:Ca:K:S of about 1:1:5:4
I'm open to trying a new GH Booster, but for consistency I'll stick with what I've been using!
Ok, so assuming your advice would be the same for this brand GH Booster I will
add 1/2 tsp per ten gallons tonight (50g) so 2.5tsp of GH Booster and another 2.5 tsp tomorrow night.
Sunday at my water change I'll be adding 2 tsp per 10g and since I replace half that will be 5 tsp.
I will keep you updated!




Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Hi @dmastin,
> 
> My Nymphoides hygrophylla (aka 'Taiwan') does that as well, we are still low on calcium. What those clear areas are is the "gelatinous" look that is described in the deficiency symptoms. The NiloCG GH Booster states that it is a 1:3:3 ratio of Mg:Ca:K so it does have a 3:1 Ca:Mg ratio. Based upon your most recent photos additional Ca and Mg both seem to be deficient. Go ahead and add an additional 1/2 teaspoon of GH Booster per 10 gallons tonight, and an additional 1/2 teaspoon per 10 gallons tomorrow evening. When you do water changes add 2 teaspoons of GH Booster per 10 gallons of new water. We will re-start the 2 week countdown and if you could give progress reports as we go that would be great. We will get there! -Roy


----------



## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

dmastin said:


> Hey Roy,
> You may be thinking of the fact I used some NiloCG ReKHarb to up KH a bit.
> For GH I've been using
> Ultimate GH Booster from GLA contains:
> ...


If Roy's original recommendations were based on a different product that would explain some things.
You really need to be adding at least 6 tsp of that product per water change but you are also adding so much K to the tank it could be inhibiting uptake of other nutrients.

What else do you use to fertilize this tank?


----------



## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi All,

I think the problem may be how the components (CaSO4, MgSO4, K2SO4) are measured - is it by weight (i.e. grams) or by volume (i.e. teaspoons). Tom Barr's recipe is GH Booster is:


> When Tom Barr spoke at GSAS in the fall of 2010 he stated the formula as:
> "it about 1/2 Potassium Sulfate (K2SO4); 1/4 Gypsum (CaSO4); and 1/4 Epsom Salts (MGSO4)".


 Here is what Colin (@NiloCG) stated in 2015 when this subject was discussed, I hope he changed is formula as a result of the input. (see post #7)

The nilocg website states that the GH Booster formula is:


> Contains Magnesium Sulfate, Potassium Sulfate, Calcium Sulfate(1:3:3 ratio)


 but doesn't state if based upon weight or volume; hopefully he will clarify his formula









Actually, both Tom Barr's DIY formula and Seachems' Equilibrium formula have a fairly large excess of potassium (K). Since I have extremely soft water and go though a lot of GH Booster about 3 years ago I started experimenting with my own GH Booster formulas (currently on Version 4.0). One teaspoon (1 tsp) per 8 gallons (water volume not tank volume) provides:
Ca = 14.3 ppm
Mg = 3.32 ppm
K = 18.97 ppm
and increases the hardness by 2.77 dGH


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## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

I am using Marco’s mix at GLA:
Ca	3.3739 %
Mg	4.0921 %
K	19.7483 %
S	16.1958 %
I do not, however, know if this is by weight or volume.
Chlorophile, you are suggesting at water change I use six tsp of this mix rather than five tsp (for 25g).
Also you are concerned my levels of K may be inhibiting uptake of other nutrients.
Then you ask what else I use to fertilize this tank.
Answer:
MWF 1/2 tsp KNO3, 1/8 tsp KH2PO4, 1/8 K2SO4
TTh 1/8 tsp Plantex CSM+B (GLA)
Pfertz/Flourish root tabs
Daily 1 tsp Seachem Excel
Three squirts of ReKHarb yesterday making my KH about 40ppm


----------



## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

As chlorophile suggested rather than using a GH Booster why don’t folks dose Epsom Salt and Calcium Sulfate? IOW, why do GH Booster mixes contain Potassium Sulfate?


----------



## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

I should note I am not dosing K2SO4 (as I am dosing a GH Booster).
So, maybe that's the answer, Potassium Sulfate is how you get Sulfur if it is not present in your water (e.g. RO water).


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi @dmastin,

I think that potassium may be included in GH Booster mixes for a couple of reasons; 1) most waters that are deficient in calcium and/or magnesium are likely deficient in potassium as well and 2) the potassium does not increase the dGH as calcium and magnesium do so it allows a larger dose per gallon making it easier to dose smaller tanks. If I were to make up a GH Booster with just CaSO4 and MgSO4 in roughly a 3:1 ratio one teaspoon added to a 10 gallon tan would add 15.09 ppm of Ca, 5.54 ppm of Mg, and increase the hardness by 3.5 dGH.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Hi @dmastin,
> 
> I think that potassium may be included in GH Booster mixes for a couple of reasons; 1) most waters that are deficient in calcium and/or magnesium are likely deficient in potassium as well and 2) the potassium does not increase the dGH as calcium and magnesium do so it allows a larger dose per gallon making it easier to dose smaller tanks. If I were to make up a GH Booster with just CaSO4 and MgSO4 in roughly a 3:1 ratio one teaspoon added to a 10 gallon tan would add 15.09 ppm of Ca, 5.54 ppm of Mg, and increase the hardness by 3.5 dGH.


That makes sense, but even a basic measuring kit usually goes down to 1/4 tsp
That ratio sounds perfect too lol, I could add 4 tsp to 30 gallons and be exactly where I want to be!
Nothing wrong with the K, but with kno3 and kh2po4 also it's just..its more than necessary imo.


----------



## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

dmastin said:


> I should note I am not dosing K2SO4 (as I am dosing a GH Booster).
> So, maybe that's the answer, Potassium Sulfate is how you get Sulfur if it is not present in your water (e.g. RO water).


Well you would get sulfate from the Epsom salts too, and or the calcium sulfate

I'd super recommend mixing your own at this point, and you can even include whatever KH additive you want while you're at it!
If you want to keep using what you have that's fine but maybe plug the product into rotalabutterfly.com

Put either your entire tank volume or the water change volume but keep in mind if you use WC volume you're gonna want to look for the amount to make the water your Target GH
If you use the tank volume you're gonna want to see half that target.
For example, it might say

Xtsp of GLA ultimate GH booster will add to 25 gallons
Blah
Blah
10ppm Ca
11ppm My

If you change the calculator for 50 gallons (tank volume)
It's now gonna say 
5ppm
5.5ppm
It's the same amount of product either way
One way is to take the newly diluted tank up to the spec you want
The other way is to replace the old water with what you want the target to be.
Anyway I'm probably making this sound more complicated than it is but just keep in mind which system your using in your head, either way is the same thing in the end.

And you can take the ppm/17.8 to get degrees of GH and like I said id target a 5


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## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

Thanks both of you!
I have ordered components to mix my own GH Booster.
I understand tweaking of macros and micros, but it seems like remineralization of RO water should have resulted in a particular product suited to this task.
Ah, but I see your point Roy just about the issue of mass, and Chlorophile makes a good point though, heck, I have a 1/8 tsp that I use for many of my EI doses.
I'll report back on Sunday with pictures and also let y'all know when my shipment of GH components arrives!


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## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

My GH Booster components should arrive tomorrow.
A reineckii has gone back to growing intact leaves (see photo).
I'm baffled that it is even possible to see such short term changes.
One Ludwigia branch looks nice (see photo).
Crypts seem better.
Anubias are still growing leaves with holes (see photo).
Plan is to continue adding ReKharb | Liquid KH Booster, bit of a wildcard though as it's not listed on Rotala Butterfly maybe because it's just sodium bicarbonate.
Will also continue MWF 1/2 tsp KNO3, 1/8 tsp KH2PO4
TTh 1/8 tsp Plantex CSM+B (GLA)
Pfertz/Flourish root tabs
Daily 1 tsp Seachem Excel
Ok ,focus has been GH with hypothesis this is my deficiency...
Tomorrow I will have CaSO4 and MgSO4.
Earlier Chlorophile you said:
"That would net you a 5GH in the new water, which over time would mean your tank GH would also be a 5GH. So a ballpark range would be for your 25g of WC water to have 53.4 PPM of Ca and 17.8PPM of Mg"
Rotala Butterly offers options of CaSO4.1/2H20 and CaSO4.2H20?
And MgSO4.7H2O.
Why the H2O in the choice?
Also, Roy, seem like I'm on the right track?
Also, thanks Surf and others for sticking with me so far.
Ok here are the pictures!


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi @dmastin,



> Rotala Butterly offers options of CaSO4.1/2H20 and CaSO4.2H20?
> And MgSO4.7H2O.
> Why the H2O in the choice?
> Also, Roy, seem like I'm on the right track?


The CaSO4 we see in the hobby is typically CaSO4*2H2O
The MgSO4 we see in the hobby is typically MgSO4*7H20

Yes, I definitely see the improvement. Not all the way there yet but making progress.


----------



## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

How did I miss that?
Now that I go back and look at the details from the page where I ordered it specifies what you suggested.
Well, I guess I just wasn't looking.
Thanks Roy!



Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Hi @dmastin,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Surf (Jun 13, 2017)

> I am using Marco’s mix at GLA:
> Ca	3.3739 %
> Mg	4.0921 %
> K	19.7483 %
> ...


I just looked at the RekHarb at the nilocg web site. It appears to contain potassium Bicarbonate. If you are trying to reduce potassium I would reduce or eliminate ReKHarb. You could use sodium bicarbonate instead or use less (or both). Note Sodium plants don't need sodium but it is beneficial to them. Also there are a small number of plats scientists call C4. for these plants sodium is essential. Dwarf Hiargrass is the only C4 plant that I am aware of. But there are probably others that are used in aquariums. So switching to sodium bicarbonate might be helpful to your pants and would help in reducing potassium.

I personally believe the the Typical NPK dosing is enough potassium in most cases. In my low tech aquarium I am not using potassium sulfate, or using sodium or potassium bicarbonate. And I make my own GH booster without potassium in it. To prevent acidic PH swings in my water I have sea shells in my filter These don't add any meaningful KH. However note that you are using CO2 which means you cannot use seashells. The CO2 would react with the Seashells and cause and unwanted GH and kH increase. 

I also just noticed your statement about having problems with shrimp. The high potassium levels and low ca/mg levels may have caused that but now that you are adding GH and working to reduce potassium you might have resolve that problem. however there is one other possible cause. RO water has no iodine in it. Plants don't need it but shrimp and fish do. Fish get enough when you feed them. However shrimp primarily feed on algae and biofilm in the tank and as a result they may not get enough. You can use used iodine Tincture (one drop per 10 gallons) or Potassium iodine 0.01ppm KI) to prevent this. When shrimp are deficient in iodine they hardly move and don't swim (that is what I saw in my aquarium). They quickly returned to normal after one dose. Low iodine may also affect molting. I saw no negative affect on using these sources of iodine.


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## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

That's lots of great info Surf. I appreciate the ReKHarb info, again I miss something I could have seen; I recall now the page mentioning potassium.
At least sodium bicarbonate is readily available.
One thing about my shrimp losses is that they occurred within 48 hours, before absence of iodine would probably make a difference I assume.
But, that's really good to know because I still hope to have some shrimp living longer, he, he.
Thanks again Surf for the great information!


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## Surf (Jun 13, 2017)

> One thing about my shrimp losses is that they occurred within 48 hours, before absence of iodine would probably make a difference I assume.


If they died that fast it wasn't iodine. Shrimp often molt shortly after being introduced into a new tank (due to water chemistry changes) so my guess is it was a molting failure. 

Also there is one thing I forgot to mention in my previous post. your fertilizers don't include chlorine an essential element need for plant growth. This is not unusual. Most fertilizers don't have it. But it is typically added to tap water to kill germs. However a RO water system should remove most of it. That said many people with RO water tanks not dosing chlorine appear to have no problems growing plants. And no one has any experience with this deficiency. 

You can easily address this potential issue by adding 0.1ppm or Cl with any of the following fertilizers, Calcium chloride, sodium chloride, or potassium chloride. All are known to be safe at 0.1ppm.


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## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

Ok iodine for shrimp and chlorine for plant growth.
For iodine one drop per ten gallons is that for a 5% iodine solution (that's what I see on Amazon)?
I just received REGEN LIQUID GH BOOSTER derived From Calcium Gluconate, Magnesium Gluconate, Calcium Chloride and Magnesium Chloride so there's my chlorine!


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## Surf (Jun 13, 2017)

> Ok iodine for shrimp and chlorine for plant growth.
> For iodine one drop per ten gallons is that for a 5% iodine solution (that's what I see on Amazon)?
> I just received REGEN LIQUID GH BOOSTER derived From Calcium Gluconate, Magnesium Gluconate, Calcium Chloride and Magnesium Chloride so there's my chlorine!


I think I was using 3%. Now I am using KI at 0.01ppm:
https://www.loudwolf.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=49&products_id=100&zenid=e0041193a43840fbbf46daecea1ed89d 

I thought you were going to mix your own GH booster. Keep in mind that if you use the this new GH booster you should use potassium sulfate to insure you have sulfur in the tank. Or you could use use a mix of your old GH booster and the new one.


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## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

New shrimp after your advice and realizing I do not dose chlorine I noted I could use some of this product to get my chlorine.
I imagine, as you suggest, I'll use a mix.
I see the KI you link is a fine powder. How do you dose?


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## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

For my custom GH mix here's my thinking based on Chlorophile's advice:
According to rotala for a target of 53.4ppm Ca I'd add 14tsp for 50g so for my 50% water changes I'm going to add 7tsp every time of CaSO4*2H2O.
For Mg of 17.8 ppm dose 6.25 tsp for 50g or about 3 tsp of MgSO4*7H20 for my 50% water changes.
If this sounds right I could then work from there and replace some convenient amount of this powder mix with REGEN | LIQUID GH BOOSTER to obtain some chlorine.
At that point I'd be on track and would continue with:
MWF 1/2 tsp KNO3, 1/8 tsp KH2PO4
TTh 1/8 tsp Plantex CSM+B (GLA)
Pfertz/Flourish root tabs
Daily 1 tsp Seachem Excel
Ten pumps of ReKHarb would provide a KH of 5 to a 25 gallon water change, but would add 400ppm potassium at least according to:
"1 pump(2ml) per 4 gallons raises KH 2.8 degrees(1meg/l). This dose adds 40ppm(mg/l) potassium"
Dang that's a lot of potassium. I could use sodium bicarbonate. As I use CO2 something like seashells wouldn't be advisable. (thanks Surf)
Any other KH suggestions.
Any comments on this plan for GH boosting, fertilizing, and KH?







Chlorophile said:


> hmm..
> I know ratios aren't everything, but I prefer a 2:1 or 3:1 Ca:Mg ratio and 4:1 is also common among those more experienced than I.
> So a ballpark range would be for your 25g of WC water to have 53.4 PPM of Ca and 17.8PPM of Mg
> That would net you a 5GH in the new water, which over time would mean your tank GH would also be a 5GH.
> ...


----------



## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

dmastin said:


> For my custom GH mix here's my thinking based on Chlorophile's advice:
> According to rotala for a target of 53.4ppm Ca I'd add 14tsp for 50g so for my 50% water changes I'm going to add 7tsp every time of CaSO4*2H2O.
> For Mg of 17.8 ppm dose 6.25 tsp for 50g or about 3 tsp of MgSO4*7H20 for my 50% water changes.
> If this sounds right I could then work from there and replace some convenient amount of this powder mix with REGEN | LIQUID GH BOOSTER to obtain some chlorine.
> ...


Hi @dmastin,

Are you discontinuing from the suggested remedy I provided or are you looking at doing this after the tank issues are resolved?


----------



## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

Oh, I don't know.

You wrote:
on 3.6.18
"When you do water changes add 2 teaspoons of GH Booster per 10 gallons of new water. We will re-start the 2 week countdown and if you could give progress reports as we go that would be great."
on 3.7.18
"If I were to make up a GH Booster with just CaSO4 and MgSO4 in roughly a 3:1 ratio one teaspoon added to a 10 gallon tan would add 15.09 ppm of Ca, 5.54 ppm of Mg, and increase the hardness by 3.5 dGH."

and on 3.6.18 Chlorophile wrote:
"So a ballpark range would be for your 25g of WC water to have 53.4 PPM of Ca and 17.8PPM of Mg
That would net you a 5GH in the new water, which over time would mean your tank GH would also be a 5GH. 
Maybe you should source Epsom Salt and Calcium Sulfate. 
MGs04 and CaSo4
I've been wanting to do the same honestly. "

From my perspective I'm just fielding the balls as they are hit to me and sometimes fail to differentiate the batter and it seemed the trend of the conversation was toward DIY.

Now that I have the ingredients CaSO4*2H2O and MgSO4*7H20.
I wrote:
According to rotala for a target of 53.4ppm Ca I'd add 14tsp for 50g so for my 50% water changes I'm going to add 7tsp every time of CaSO4*2H2O.
For Mg of 17.8 ppm dose 6.25 tsp for 50g or about 3 tsp of MgSO4*7H20 for my 50% water changes.

This past Sunday (my regular water change day) I didn't do anything as my focus shifted to trying to keep some fish alive.
So, after skipping a week of any water change or fertilization and CO2 running but with an airstone running 24hrs, I'll be back to focusing on flora (some fish survived, some did not, but isn't that usually the story).

Sunday, would you continue with GLA's GH Booster or switch to DIY components?

Thanks!




Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Hi @dmastin,
> Are you discontinuing from the suggested remedy I provided or are you looking at doing this after the tank issues are resolved?


----------



## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

dmastin said:


> Sunday, would you continue with GLA's GH Booster or switch to DIY components?
> 
> Thanks!


Hi dmastin,

I would probably discontinue the GH Booster mix and either go with the dosing the CaSO4*2H20 and MgSO4*7H2O separately or in your own DIY mix......I do both. After a water change I dose my DIY Booster and then later in the week I dose either Ca, Mg, or both depending on how the plants look.


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## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

Sounds great thank you!
I usually see you suggesting a 3:1 ratio Ca:Mg with 1 tsp per ten gallons?


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

dmastin said:


> Sounds great thank you!
> I usually see you suggesting a 3:1 ratio Ca:Mg with 1 tsp per ten gallons?


Hi dmastin,

Actually my current mix is a little light on the Mg but is easy for me to mix up. My current version (4.0) is (by volume):

3 parts CaSO4*2H2O
1 part MgSO4*7H20
1 part K2SO4

1 teaspoon per 8 gallons provides:
14.3 ppm Ca
3.32 ppm Mg
18.97 ppm K
and increases the hardness by 2.77 dGH


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## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

Thank you very much!
Is 2.77 dGH your target?


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## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

Here's my plan for 50g tank:
MWF 1/2 tsp KNO3
1/8 tsp KH2PO4
TTh 1/8 tsp Plantex CSM+B
Root tabs as needed
1 tsp Excel daily
With 50% water change every Sunday:
3 pumps ReKharb and obtain some type of dry bicarbonate as an alternative. 
3 tsp DIY GH (3 parts CaSO4*2H2O, 1 part MgSO4*7H20, 1 part K2SO4)
To introduce CL I will consider substituting or adding some ReGEN maybe a 2-4ml
With experience I might learn to add Ca and Mg as needed.
I will continue to post Sunday pictures with the Anubias holes as the primary test bed variable.


----------



## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

dmastin said:


> Thank you very much!
> Is 2.77 dGH your target?


Hi dmastin,

No, I typically target 4.0 - 6.0 dGH.


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## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

Thanks Roy!
So I'll update/alter my plan to, say, 5 tsp DIY GH (3 parts CaSO4*2H2O, 1 part MgSO4*7H20, 1 part K2SO4).
And test from there.
I will report back tomorrow on picture day.


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## SocalAquatics (Jan 15, 2018)

Sorry to back track, but someone asked why potassium is included in the various GH mixes. The answer is Potassium aids in the transport of various elements in the plant a few of those vital elements are Ca and Mg.

"Potassium also plays a major role in the
transport of water and nutrients throughout the
plant in the xylem. When K supply is reduced,
translocation of nitrates, phosphates, calcium
(Ca), magnesium (Mg), and amino acids is de-
pressed."


----------



## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

Hey cool SA! that's good to know.
It seemed like a mystery to me.
Anyway, for somebody dosing NPK already the K in a GH mix is probably superfluous, right?
Thanks again!



SocalAquatics said:


> Sorry to back track, but someone asked why potassium is included in the various GH mixes. The answer is Potassium aids in the transport of various elements in the plant a few of those vital elements are Ca and Mg.
> 
> "Potassium also plays a major role in the
> transport of water and nutrients throughout the
> ...


----------



## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

How is this explained "Contains Magnesium Sulfate, Potassium Sulfate, Calcium Sulfate (1:3:3 ratio)" which is what NilocG uses?
Is there a premix of Magnesium Sulfate, Potassium Sulfate, Calcium Sulfate (1:1:3)?


----------



## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

dmastin said:


> Hey cool SA! that's good to know.
> It seemed like a mystery to me.
> Anyway, for somebody dosing NPK already the K in a GH mix is probably superfluous, right?
> Thanks again!


Hi demastin,

Some may think that there is sufficient K when dosing KNO3 and KH2PO4 but that isn't the case for me. When I compute out dosing 20 ppm of NO3 per week and 4 ppm of PO4 per week I only get about 12.5 ppm of K per week below my target of 15 ppm per week. I don't dose K2SO4 separately as part of my EI dosing so the additional K in my GH Booster helps to bring me up a little bit 15 ppm per week.


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## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

Remember I've had a week dedicated to the fish so no ferts, yes CO2, and an airstone running 24/7.
Now I'm back to focusing on flora.
---
Today I did my 50% RO water change.
Added 5 tsp of DIY GH (Magnesium Sulfate, Potassium Sulfate, Calcium Sulfate (1:1:3) ratio by volume).
Added 2ml of ReGen for CL.
Added 6ml of ReKharb
and 1 tsp Excel
---
Later in the evening water parameters tested as:
Ph 7.1, usually it's 6.8 in evening but I just turned off an airstone that's been running 24 hours for the fish.
I assume my Ph should be dropping more as 1-2 bps is not sufficient and my diffuser is not highly efficient, but that's on the back burner at the moment as I focus on GH.
Temp 77.5F
TDS 265ppm
KH 58ppm CaCO3 by meter
GH 4 drops or 71.6ppm or 4 degrees
---
I did a significant trimming and removal, mostly fast growing stuff, but also removed two or three bunches of rotala that was wan't doing all that well in the back overshadowed by the cabomba.
You won't be able to see from the picture below, but anubias new and old growth with lots of holes. I removed lots of leaves with holes.
I was surprised to see today the alternanthera reineckii again with the top leaves of that one plant turning green.
It occurred to me the last time this happened was right after a water change. My drain and refill process is slow and takes about 4-6 hours so I wonder if the leaves being exposed to air had an effect.
Correlation only though.
I realize I'm not growing any particularly challenging plants, but it's fun to try to grow them the best I can.
---
So my GH is at it's all time high having moved up from 3 to 4 degrees (KH also up from 30 something to 58ppm).
Unless I hear otherwise I'll run like this for two weeks and keep reporting back on Sundays at minimum!
ps after seeing this picture I ran downstairs and scrubbed the algae off my fluval in/out so don't make fun :laugh2:


----------



## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi dmastin,

The increase in pH is directly attributed to the increase in dKH.


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## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

Thanks Roy.
Going to try and up GH from 4 to 5 on Sunday if no objection.
Here's a picture of how the tank looks (see below).
And here's a closeup...
Holy Snot Hydras!
Ok, first is first, you can see I clipped off the top of the AR and two new leaves grew.
One new leaf had a tiny hole and the other looks a bit transparent (see below).
Ok, also you can see the multiple Hydras!
I imagine there's a thread I can read where this has been discussed?
I'll start looking now.
I've been feeding frozen cyclops so I wonder, is that what they are eating. I guess I could watch and see.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi @dmastin,

You are getting good at this, yes we still need a little more calcium / GH Booster but on a side note that tank is starting to look really good!


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## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

Aw you're kind Roy thanks!
Considering here's the tank in November, not too bad since then.
I realize I'm probably only stage three (Collectoritus) in Tom's 12 stages of aquatic aquascaper, but I'm having fun.


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## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

Doesn't look like too bad of a place to live.
I'm thinking a school of something. Neons maybe?
I wonder what it takes to get a red ludwigia cuba?
Maybe I need to increase my overall photoperiod or just the number of hours all bulbs are turned on.
I have six T5HOs and two of them run eight hours a day and three of those hours all turn on.
Ah well, one thing at a time. Sunday I'll increase GH and post new pics.


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## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

GH up a point today at water change!
I'll post pictures tomorrow.


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## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

GH is at 6 which is the highest it's ever been.
I'd worked it up to 4 increasing the GH booster mix I had and as described previously my mix at 5tsp with a 25g water change brought it to 6.
I'd planned on trying 6tsp, but I tested a few hours after 5tsp and found the GH of 6 so I'll try to stay there for two weeks.
Pictures below.
Newest tiny leaves on AR look good.
Slower growing AR look good.
Anubias continue to have some holes.
Note: I've had the same anubias in this tank for many years without holes.
I've also always had bladder snails.
With the addition of some fish I've been overfeeding and had a population increase of bladder snails, but didn't give it much thought.
I've always considered the snails a natural part of the tank.
For my new shrimp tank I've been reading about snails and shrimp and ran across someone complaining about bladder snails eating holes in crypts.
Are these snails eating holes in my anubias?
I suppose the answer, which I've already begun, is to stop overfeeding.
Also I've greatly cut back feeding as I noticed the hydra.
In any case, DIY GH Booster has resulted in a GH of 6.
I will stay on track for two weeks.
I will continue to feed much less and might introduce a snail trap.
We'll see the effect of a higher GH and fewer snails.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi @dmastin,

Other than the holes the newer anubias leaves look both straighter and larger than the older leaves. You may be correct about the snails being the 'hole' issue; the picture directly above seems to show the snails favoring the newer leaves where the leaf tissue is still soft......

I agree, maintain your dGH for a couple of weeks and let's see what happens; keep the updates coming I'm looking forward to seeing the progress!


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## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

Thanks Roy.
I very much appreciate your continued support!
As a side-note, everybody should take pictures of their tank. Maybe it's because I'm old and can't see the same as I used to be able (I'm 52).
But almost every time I take a picture I see things I didn't notice previously.
I have a magnifying glass on the table next to my tank, but I seem to only use it for fauna.
It's when I take pictures of flora and don't expect to be seeing anything interesting, just documenting, that I often notice something new.


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## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

Sunday's 50% water change I added 3 tsp of DIY GH and two pumps of ReGen (for Cl) bringing my GH to 5.
I've been regularly clearing pond snails and anticipate anubias to continue to show fewer holes.
Note: I had a fauna die off as I tried to introduce neons to the tank and this resulted in a pond snail burst (I couldn't find all the bodies).
Next Sunday, after two weeks of 5-6 GH, I'll post more comprehensive pictures of the tank.
I'll continue to remove snails as well.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

dmastin said:


> Sunday's 50% water change I added 3 tsp of DIY GH and two pumps of ReGen (for Cl) bringing my GH to 5.
> I've been regularly clearing pond snails and anticipate anubias to continue to show fewer holes.
> Note: I had a fauna die off as I tried to introduce neons to the tank and this resulted in a pond snail burst (I couldn't find all the bodies).
> Next Sunday, after two weeks of 5-6 GH, I'll post more comprehensive pictures of the tank.
> I'll continue to remove snails as well.


Hi dmastin,

So what do you think about the results so far?


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## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

Hey Roy! Thanks for asking.
I'm pleased.
I think two things are happening...
I'm learning about GH and KH.
And I'm realizing bladder/pond snails are not completely innocuous.
I think it's a matter of enjoying the process and people like yourself really help.
Currently I'm snail mitigating through feeding less and manual removal (reserving assassin snails and chemicals as last ditch).
I've lived with snails for years and never minded them. Unless I've introduced some alternate variety of pond/bladder snail that is more a leaf eater.
If that's the case I might consider assassin snails. 
I feel I've been doing well with EI dosing for years and see my GH/KH education another step along the path.
As a goal I'd like to see very few holes in my anubias and crypts. I'll post more comprehensive photos on Sunday!
In parallel I'm working on introducing fish to the tank. After failure I've set up a hospital tank and a quarantine tank and so that's been keeping me busy as well!


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## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

Weekly check in!
Just added 3 tsp of DIY GH mix.
GH at 5 drops after 2 tsp and a few hours so added one more tsp and will test again.
After months of not considering GH at all I feel it's a big improvement.
I'm going to continue with 3 tsp of my GH mix and a target of about 6 GH.
Also will continue manual pond/bladder snail mitigation without worry much.
Also working on hydra mitigation, but also not worrying much.
I have increased my CO2 from 1-2 bps to 2-3 bps.
I'll attend to pH and see what change I'm introducing via pH.
So, holding steady with GH and upping CO2 a bit.
Will continue to update.


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## dmastin (Jun 19, 2009)

dmastin said:


> Thanks Roy.
> ...
> Ok, also you can see the multiple Hydras!
> I imagine there's a thread I can read where this has been discussed?
> ...


"War. War never changes.
The Romans waged war to gather slaves and wealth. Spain built an empire from its lust for gold and territory. Hitler shaped a battered Germany into an economic superpower.
But war never changes."
I don't know if we need another fenbendazole thread. If anyone thinks we do just let me know.
So the hyrda were proliferating. There were little pockets/spots in the tank where there were just a bunch.
I had three quarter gram packets of fenbendazole on hand, so I dropped the bomb.
The dosage works about to be a gram per 100g such that for my 50g tank a half a gram should have been fine.
Some folks seem to find a quarter dose works if you only have hydra.
I treated with one packet .25g and most of the hydra looked fine 12 hours later so I added another .25g.
After 24 hours about half of the hydra looked either obviously dead or withdrawn, but half still had tentacles out so I added the last .25g packet.
So it worked out I was dosing a quarter gram for my 50g tank every 12 hours until they were all dead at 36 hours having added a total of .75g.
Then I did a 20% water change and returned the Purigen bag back to the filter.
The plants, fish, and even bladder snails never seemed affected by the fenbendazole.
The hydra died, died, and died. It was very reinforcing to see the snails gobble these hydra up.
Although you read about snails eating hydra I have not found it true for bladder snails.
Boy is this boring...if you watch a bladder snail move around on a leaf with hydra it's like super slow motion bumper cars!
They never would eat the hydra, just bounce off (not until dead that is).
I will have to watch the snail population to make sure they don't suddenly start dying, maybe after eating the poisoned hydra.
Not that I would care much about the bladder snails, but the dead matter would be important to deal with.
Last bit of advice would be to purchase your fenbendazole at the petstore as dog dewormer, just check the ingredients.
I paid $15 for .75g (three packets of .25g each) on Amazon for "Fish Bendazole Fenbendazole Powder" whereas 4g of dog deworming fenbendazole was also $15 (4 packets of 1g each) at PetSmart. Granted, the dosing of the .25g packets was ideal for me, generally the dewormer would make more sense. Although I didn't need it I now have the dewormer on hand if I need to treat again.


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