# 2.5 gal "Arroyo"



## mgdmirage (Mar 30, 2009)

I think it looks awesome, too bad the stones aren't an inch or so taller though. I think it will look great with what you have planned! I suggest a background though


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

I love the hardscape. I agree with mgdmirage, need some taller background plants in the end. Great start!


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

I agree larger rocks would make it more defined. Sure the bettas will love there new digs though.

Craig


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

I agree larger rocks would make it more defined. Sure the bettas will love there new digs though.

Craig


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## Bonefish (Mar 14, 2009)

No update yet, unfortunately. I was going to hit the LFS last week but ended up getting sick. And then, to top it all off, I found out that the store is going out of business at the end of the month.  Bummer.

Hopefully I'll have some aquascape updates by Tuesday.

mgdmirage - I really wish the stones were just a few centimeters bigger, too. I have a few bigger rocks sitting around, but they're a different texture/color (porous and cold gray), which I think would seem too stark for the tank. As for a background, I do have a few pieces of blue aquarium backing that I might try. I'm also thinking of planting a "curtain" of regular hairgrass in the back to hide the heater.

Phoenix-cry - Thanks for the suggestion! I'm thinking a tall grass might look best. I'll see what the store has in stock.

Craigthor - I'm hoping this'll appease my angry little fishies.


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## Ugly Genius (Sep 27, 2003)

The color and texture of those rocks are amazing. Is there any chance of you finding more? If you added a bunch, say five or six more, you'd have a really interesting rockscape.


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## Francis Xavier (Oct 8, 2008)

I have to agree with the above if you can find some larger rocks and some more of the same type, you could make something really rocking.


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## Bonefish (Mar 14, 2009)

Ugly Genius & Francis - I'm gonna see what I can do about finding more matching rocks. I'd love to add more depth and volume to the hardscape.


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## april_tanks (Jul 21, 2009)

As for whether or not to have the HC fill in the valley, I would say yes because it looks nice and the HC will eventually grow that far unless you clip it. I love the way you have it set up and wouldn't change. I bet your betta will look it xD


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## Francis Xavier (Oct 8, 2008)

The reason behind finding more of the same type rocks is that you can make the iwagumi more dynamic and interesting, bigger stones so they aren't overshadowed by the plants. 

It's like some of my earlier scapes, cool to look at the first few times, then would get boring over time since there's not much "new" to see or to think you could see, so to speak.


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## Bonefish (Mar 14, 2009)

Back from the LFS with an update. I've got some good news and bad news.

Bad news first: the LFS didn't have any of the plants I'm looking for, so I'll have to order online. There is a silver lining: ordering online allows me a much greater selection of plants to choose from.

The good news is that I found more pieces of petrified wood for the iwagumi. The biggest piece still isn't as tall as I'd like, but I'm hoping that the mound of soil it's on will help make up for its lack of height. Right now there are seven rocks total in the layout. I'm mostly pleased with how it looks at the moment.









This photo doesn't show the true colors of the rocks. They're more of a pinkish tan. My camera sucks and darkens everything









Angle at which you view the tank from the computer desk. It was tough to get the layout to look okay from multiple angles.

Any other suggestions re: rock positions? Like I said, I'm pretty happy with this. I'm hoping the larger rocks and more dynamic sloping will keep the scape exciting.

Next conundrum is plants. I've had a change of plan from my first post. Here's what I'm thinking now:









The Pelia and HC I can order from the site I'm looking at (AZ Gardens), but I have no idea where to get UG, nor do I know how hard UG is to maintain in a nano under the conditions I've got. Micro sword, which I can also get from AZ Gardens, might be a decent (and more hardy) substitute for the UG, though I'm in love with how UG looks in the photos I've seen of it.

Hopefully I'll get to ordering the plants over the weekend.

EDIT: It turns out that one of the online stores that sells UG is located about 30 minutes from my house. Gonna give them a call to see if they do pickups in person. Nothing like saving on shipping!


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## leaf (Jun 27, 2009)

A little warning on az gardens... they do charge shipping after you've been billed and can be expensive... 20-60 dollars! The problem is they don't ask you what method and ship without the cost being approved by you. Expect a box handling fee if your order is under $100. They also have a tendency to substitute out of stock plants/fish, for cheaper, more common plants/fish (WITHOUT CHANGING THE PRICE BILLED TO YOU!!!!) Always call first to see if they have the plant you want in stock.


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## yikesjason (Jul 2, 2008)

I recommend something other than micro sword, it is taller than you think and would block out most of what you have planned for behind it.


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## Ugly Genius (Sep 27, 2003)

Your proposed layout kinda-sorta reminds me of this tank.
This one, too.
Check those threads out for some insight and ideas.


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## SearunSimpson (Jun 5, 2007)

I would be skeptical of ordering from AZ Gardens. I myself have never dealt with them, but based on other forum members experiences with them, I am not ordering from them- ever.

As for a background plant, one that looks really nice, but can be a PIA to plant is Eleochoris Vivipara (sp?).


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## Bonefish (Mar 14, 2009)

leaf & SearunSimpson - Thanks for the warning about AZ Gardens... I had no idea their reputation among hobbyists was so shaky. I'll look into different sources for my plants. Do you have any specific recommendations? I'm open to all suggestions. 

yikesjason - That's why I'm leaning towards UG instead of micro sword. From what I've read, UG only gets to be about 1 inch long. Riccia might work, too, but I don't know how well it'll do with only Flourish Excel instead of CO2 injection.

Ugly Genius - Thanks so much for those links. Great stuff and very helpful. I'm reading through them now and will probably end up tweaking my hardscape a bit more.


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## Bonefish (Mar 14, 2009)

Plants are in!

Picked up the _U. graminifolia_ from Carnivorous Plant Nursery yesterday, and my box of plants from aquariumplants.com came this afternoon. After an hour or two of planting, here's what I've got:

















Plants, from front to back, are dwarf hairgrass, _Marsilea quadrifolia_ (trimmed to just the rhizomes), _U. graminifolia_, and _H. callitrichoides_.

I'm planning on going emersed for ~3 weeks and then switching to submersed. Besides keeping the emersed tank constantly moist and lit, is there anything else I should do? Is 27W too much for beginning emersed growth?

And finally, introducing...








STEALTH PICO. No idea what volume it is. Just a generic garden store-variety glass vase filled with some of the extra plants and stones I've got. Still waiting for the dust to settle from filling.










Both tanks.


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## Dollface (Sep 30, 2008)

Heeeyy, fancy seeing you here.

It'll be intresting to see how the plants grow in with your rocks, the UG could look really cool. I would've skipped the marsilea all together and planted the UG right up to where the hair grass in the back is so it could cascade forward over the rocks. 
Speaking of the hair grass, that looks crazy tall for DHG, even in a 2.5. 

UH to answer your questions, you can never have too much light for emersed, as long as it stays moist. If anything I would try and move the light closer to the plastic. 
Also, 3 weeks might not be enough for it to get going emersed, 4-6 weeks would probably be better, but YMMV.


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## Bonefish (Mar 14, 2009)

Howdy hey! Which corner of the internet do I know you from? Don't recognize the username off the top of my head.

I'm looking forward to seeing how the UG fills in. If the marsilea fails (which is possible, since I trimmed it way back to the rhizomes), I'll take some of the extra UG I'm culturing outside the tank and fill it in all the way to the DHG. 

The DHG is _huge_. Aquariumplants.com said it was a new shipment (as in it arrived at their facility the same day they mailed it to me), and it was in top form when I received it - big and healthy and green. I imagine the taller parts will die back a bit when I make the switch from emersed to submersed.

I'm nuking it with as much light as possible.  The light can't be lowered more due to lamp design, unfortunately, but the plants seem to be pretty happy with what they've got.

I might give the tank an extra week or two of emersed growth just to make sure roots have been laid down and the plants are over their transplant shock. My next concern is cycling, but I'll cross that bridge when I get there.


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## Dollface (Sep 30, 2008)

I'm merri-chan over on LJ, from smartsnark 

DHG doesn't really grow any different emersed, by the looks of it I think you might have gotten regular (tall) hair grass, wich is an excellent background plant, but iunno how it does emersed. I'd watch it to see if it wants to just die off and not put out any emersed growth. 

One weird thing I found with my emersed tank was that my plants barely put down any roots, so I think once you start to see runners from the UG or HC that you should be good to fill it up.


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## Bonefish (Mar 14, 2009)

Ohoho! I love how small the internet can be. I had no idea you were into planted tanks! I'm glad to have found a fellow snarker-fish lover.

I'm seeing some tiny new growth on the DHG and no dieback yet, so I think it is indeed true DHG. Just really, really big DHG. It'll be interesting to see what happens when I fill the tank.

A tiny little cobweb spider (a baby) has gotten into the tank and built a mini web on the marsilea. Poor guy's gonna be in for a surprise in a few weeks.


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## Dollface (Sep 30, 2008)

I think we talked about bettas once, I don't remember what it was in relation to though, hmmm.

That's good! weird though, my emersed DHG has never gotten too much bigger than it's submersed form, It'll be intresting to see how it grows in.


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## Bonefish (Mar 14, 2009)

Dollface said:


> I think we talked about bettas once, I don't remember what it was in relation to though, hmmm.
> 
> That's good! weird though, my emersed DHG has never gotten too much bigger than it's submersed form, It'll be intresting to see how it grows in.


It was inevitably in response to some idiocy on DA. Probably live-feeding drama.

Well, in answer to the DHG question, heeeeeeeere's an update!









Emersed growth as of yesterday.









Partial top view.









The UG took a little while to settle in, but as soon as it did, it started taking off.









The HC, though a bit more vertical than I'd like, seems to be quite happy.

Save for the Marsilea, all of the plants have grown and filled in like fiends. Submersion will commence in a few days, as soon as I get an appropriate heater for the tank (probably one of these on sale from the LFS).

Changed the tank name to "Arroyo" because the ruddy stones and "wash" of HC down the middle remind me of a desert gulch.


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## Bonefish (Mar 14, 2009)

Went submersed as of this past Sunday. No major melt or dieoff yet, but the ammonia levels are off the chart. I'm chalking that up to the ADA Amazonia leeching, so I'm going to give the tank a few weeks to cycle (and possibly add some floating anachris and hornwort from the pond) before I put Ms. Betta in her new home. 

I hope the Marsilea, which looks kind of gangly at the moment, switches to its denser submersed form soon. If it doesn't I'll probably pull it and just let the hairgrass fill in.

I'm beginning to think I need something tall in the back corners.

As for the pico a few posts back, I gave up on keeping it aquatic and drained the water. It's now been converted into a pico vivarium for a little terrestrial snail I found in my emersed plant culture.


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## Outlawboss (Dec 30, 2008)

Love the valley of HC. If you let that hairgrass grow for awhile, it should get pretty tall on it's own. It will also spread like crazy so it'd be nice and full. See how that hairgrass just to the left of the middle is leaning inward? It would be cool if the hairgrass on the right did that too. A whimsical hairgrass tunnel.


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## Bonefish (Mar 14, 2009)

Thanks, Outlawboss! Yeah, I'm hoping the hairgrass fills in a bit more. The UG has taken off since submersion, but the hairgrass growth seems to have puttered to a bit of a standstill. 

I love the hairgrass tunnel idea! I'm gonna steal a plug of DHG from my emersed culture and try to stick it in on the right side. The inward leaning part on the left was a total fluke -- I kept trying to coax that piece to grow upwards -- but now I see the potential for a cute tunnel mirroring the slant of the rocks.


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## Bonefish (Mar 14, 2009)

Ok, I'm freaking out a bit right now because both the UG and HC are melting back. I'm worried that it's because the pH and KH are insanely low (due to Aquasoil?). My tap water measures 80-120 ppm KH and pH 6.8 before being added to the tank, but only about 0-40 ppm and 6.2 pH after being in the tank.

Also, I need to get a decent test kit and stop using test strips. :icon_eek:

Anyway, what can I do about this problem? Add carbonate?


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## kcirtappatrick (Mar 16, 2009)

sorry to hear about your plants. 
it could be that your plants are finally transitioning from emersed to submerged. 
of maybe a lack of nutrients? what are you dosing any ferts?


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## Dollface (Sep 30, 2008)

I doupt it's the PH/KH that's causing the melt, It's probably the emersed growth melting away into submersed form. I've heard that HC is reaalllyy picky about going between emersed and submersed.


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## Bonefish (Mar 14, 2009)

kcirtappatrick - dosing the full line of Seachem products according to this guide. I'm wondering if it's the emersion-submersion transition, too. Seems like a bit of a delayed reaction from the plants -- they looked so happy earlier this week -- but it's possible.

Dollface - I kind of hope that's the case. I'd rather not have to constantly add baking soda to the water to correct for KH issues. It's funny, I'm not as worried about the HC as I am about the UG. Probably because I've kept HC successfully before, but this is my first try with UG so I'm babying it.


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Did you purchase the terrestrial form, or the aquatic form?


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## Bonefish (Mar 14, 2009)

Aquatic form. I put 90% of it into the nano and have a small emersed culture growing separately. It seems to have adjusted to emersed life very well. 

It's possible that going submersed-emersed-submersed in the nano has shocked it.


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## Dollface (Sep 30, 2008)

UG goes from submersed to emersed easily ime. I don't have any experience with emersed to submersed though, I have a feeling it might be a little trickier than the other way around. But hopefully it should bounce back, UG really isn't as obnoxiously delicate as some people make it out to be.


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## Bonefish (Mar 14, 2009)

Well, so far I've lost about four square inches of UG, including the pretty little lawn in the right foreground. It's as if the rot keeps spreading further and further back along the runners; every day there's a bit more melted.









Tank seems to be in the nitrite-to-nitrate stage of cycling, with nitrites really high at the moment. So I wonder if high nitrites have anything to do with the melting. Just in case, I did another 50% water change.

The good news is, after throwing a red ramshorn in and letting him clean up the melted leaves, I can see a tiny bit of new growth budding out. Here's hoping for that bounce back.


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## kcirtappatrick (Mar 16, 2009)

i think the plants are just adjusting to your tank or transitioning from emersed to submerged. i'm sure your plants will start to come back given time. whenever i see my plants melting off or starting to look unhealthy i just do water changes more often. usually works for me. anyway, good luck with the plants! keep us posted


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## firudwhi (Oct 8, 2009)

I love the hardscape. I agree with mgdmirage, need some taller background plants in the end. Great start! 
AndThis great pictures, thank you for sharing them. I will return to put the picture on your forum and you'll find them great.


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## Bonefish (Mar 14, 2009)

Apologies for the long wait. Don't worry, I didn't forget this forum, I just got sidetracked by some random events in my life (possible Lyme disease late last month... weird). But, I've kept a photo log of the scape's progression over the past few weeks, and here it is:










Added Rilix, my old betta, in mid October. Ignore the HC-covered rock on the right, I was temporarily storing it.










Rilix hanging out in her new home. Old betta girl is nearly 3 years old and partially blind in both eyes. Doesn't stop her from being a fiesty little nipper.










Early November. Floating some Mayaca fluviatilis on the left. Some areas of DHG and UG began to rot, for reasons I don't know. Had some trouble with Green Dust Algae.










Mid November, added Mayaca as background plant.









November 25.










From a few days ago. Removed a patch of HC in the back left of the "wash" where the roots/base had begun to rot (no idea why! ugh). UG still hasn't filled in a few areas on the left where it suffered a melt back. DHG is flourishing in some parts and rotting in others (I think the parts that are rotting are the original emersed plugs I set in the tank). Mayaca's doing well. Green dust algae is still around but I've gotten it mostly under control by knocking it off the glass with a toothbrush every day. There's some cyanobacteria and thread algae that seems to be trying to take a hold on the plant tips, but so far it's very contained.

Still trying to figure out the optimal dosing schedule for the tank.  I think I may need to up the nitrogen dose.

My LFS sells small banana plants... I'm thinking of taking the tropical feel of this tank even further by adding a banana plant on the left, and maybe some sag behind the large stone. Soon this will be more "Jungle" than "Arroyo"! :biggrin:

@kkcirtappatrick - you were right; the plants bounced back!
@firudwhi - thanks! I took your suggestion and tried a taller background plant, the mayaca, and I think it looks great.


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## Bonefish (Mar 14, 2009)

New mission - raise nitrates. I think that's what's hitting the plants so hard. Last time I tested, nitrates were about 0 PPM. I've been dosing by this guide, but I think the nitrates aren't enough for my carpet of UG. That, and the betta doesn't poop much, so she's not a big help. So I'm upping my dose of Flourish Nitrogen.

I also need to throw a snail in there to eat up some of the rotted stuff. I'm torn between an olive nerite or just getting some free red ramshorns from my friend. I'd do shrimp but you know how it is with bettas. The shrimp would be an expensive snack rather than a clean-up crew.


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## AlexXx (Dec 1, 2009)

Amazing tank! Where did you get those rocks or petrified wood? Whatever those things are, they are amazing looking.


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## Bonefish (Mar 14, 2009)

Thanks! They're petrified wood that I picked up from my LFS.


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## Bonefish (Mar 14, 2009)

Update: "Arroyo" is no more. Something just wasn't right with the tank balance, and the scape kept getting hit by rot and algae. Upkeep was becoming too much of a hassle: think daily glass wiping and lots of pruning on a weekly basis.

The tank is now a farm tank/holding tank for my excess plants. I can put up a photo if anyone's interested, but it's completely unremarkable as a scape (no more hardscape, just vaguely Dutch-style rows of plants). Not that the betta cares, she's happy either way.


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