# Please help a newbie with dirted tank!



## Old Salt (Aug 11, 2009)

The T5HO lighting will need to be a bit above the glass cover, say 2 to 3 inches minimum. As far as plants go, it will really depend on what type of look you are after. Are you going to try and emulate a biotope, or do you want something with eye appeal without regard of where the plants come from. Will you go low tech , high tech, or somewhere in between. You'll need to think through what look you want to go for before deciding on the plants, as you can pretty much grow anything . My first choice for plants would be a sword or two some vals or sags, some crypts, maybe some wisteria or water sprite. Stem plants would depend on what color I 'd want for accent, and texture. Ground cover for a carpeted foreground could be HC, glosso, hairgrass. 
You will also need to determine how much time you wish to spend maintaining your aquascape. This will also play into the plant selection.


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## minceymeatpie (May 4, 2012)

I am aiming for good looking not biotite. I want to do a low maintenance kinda tank... Which is why I am not sure that a t5ho is good because I read this gives high light and will mean lots of maintenance, fertilizers, CO2? Should I just stick with the double fluorescent T8 tubes at 2x54W?


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## kamikazi (Sep 3, 2010)

minceymeatpie said:


> I am aiming for good looking not biotite. I want to do a low maintenance kinda tank... Which is why I am not sure that a t5ho is good because I read this gives high light and will mean lots of maintenance, fertilizers, CO2? Should I just stick with the double fluorescent T8 tubes at 2x54W?


Sounds like you want low tech, low light. 

I doubt your current light is enough for even low light, most lights that come in kits don't provide enough light for plants. 
Check out the second chart in THIS THREAD Your tank is 21 inches tall, so for low light you'd need a single T5HO 3-4 inches above the top of the tank OR a dual T5NO on top of the tank OR a 2-3 bulb T8 on top of the tank. Since you say you have zero DIY skills I would recommend the options that let you sit the light on top of the tank.

Check out THIS THREAD for a list and discussion of plants that can be grown in low light. Personally for low light plants I like crypts, java ferns, anubias, alternanthera reinikii as well as a few others. There are a few low light carpet plants, marselia minuta is one example.

Your corries should not mess up your gravel cap provided it is as deep as it should be (1.5-2 inches)

On your stocking list, I would be concerned about the cherry shrimp. They will become lunch for the angelfish. If the tank is heavily planted or has some heavily planted areas they might do ok since would have a place to hide and reproduce. I doubt you'll see many if any baby shrimp though.


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## minceymeatpie (May 4, 2012)

I had seen the "Hoppy's chart" before but looking at the graph of PAR etc I understand now what you mean when you say the 2x54W T8s may not give enough light at all. Can I put 2 T5NO bulbs into a T5HO Hagen Glo fixture? Or should I just run one T5HO tube?

Wikipedia says alternantha reinikii is a plant that needs high light? The marselia looks good, had not thought of that. How is this for an aquascape?

Foreground - marselia minuta/echinodorus parviflorus 'Tropica'/cryptocoryne parva
Midground - no clue
Background - java fern, bacopa carolina, egeria densa?

I have a sinking feeling I'm going to end up with a weird jungle...


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## JasonG75 (Mar 1, 2011)

I would look maybe in to 2x24 or 39 T5NO 
LOWTECH means just that, Minimal work. T5ho might increase that work.

Here is a chart I have (BELOW) 

T5HO 2x *4" *above the top gives you Medium, granted you might not have even spread. 
What I like is 1 fixture 1 bulb (front and back) 

Or you can maybe go with 2x T5no X2 = 4 bulbs (front and back)


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## minceymeatpie (May 4, 2012)

Maybe I should clarify why I have a "fixation" on the T5HO... it is because I am getting it used for $50. So if I can drive T5NO bulbs on this it would be great - and give me the option at a later date of converting to higher tech if I want by changing up the light.

Maybe I will just use one T5HO bulb for now - assuming it is safe to do that on a double-light fixture?


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## jjp2 (May 24, 2008)

minceymeatpie said:


> Hi all,
> What sorts of plants can I grow in this tank? I could do CO2 but don't wish to be dosing all sorts of fertilisers/chemicals etc into the tank regularly. I love the look of carpeted foregrounds and would like to have something like that, but at the same time am unsure as to whether cory catfish would destroy this or make a huge mess by getting through the gravel cap.


 
Carpeting plants, hc, glosso, etc but not micro sword typically require medium to high light and additional CO2. Your dirt will help offset regular fertilization, but some fertilization still may be required. Microsword would grow well without CO2, but all do better with CO2.

At this point, you need to make some decisions. First is to either decide on what you want the tank to look like OR if you want to do low tech/high tech. If you really want a carpet (answer to the first question) then you need to provide what those plants need to blossom. If you decide to do low tech (answer to the second question), then you focus on plants that do well in those conditions.

I do believe the T5HO light is good on that tank. With legs, it will raise 2-4 inches and sit under the canopy and over the glass. If you want a carpet, this will work, you just likely need pressurized CO2, not DYI in that size tank. If you want low tech, some floaters would help reduce the light. You will also lose some due to the glass tops. 

There are some tank journals with this light in both high and low tech setups. A low tech one I can recall is lauraleebp's on her 90 gallon which is 2-3 inches taller, but would give you some ideas.

I run 2 T5HO 80 watt bulbs with pressurized CO2 on my 180 and it is very sufficient lighting.


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## JasonG75 (Mar 1, 2011)

minceymeatpie said:


> So if I can drive T5NO bulbs on this it would be great
> Maybe I will just use one T5HO bulb for now - assuming it is safe to do that on a double-light fixture?


If I am not mistaken I have heard that it will eventually wear out the ballast. 

Depends on the fixture. Some run a current, which means when one is not plugged in the other wont work.


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## kamikazi (Sep 3, 2010)

minceymeatpie said:


> I had seen the "Hoppy's chart" before but looking at the graph of PAR etc I understand now what you mean when you say the 2x54W T8s may not give enough light at all. Can I put 2 T5NO bulbs into a T5HO Hagen Glo fixture? Or should I just run one T5HO tube?
> 
> Wikipedia says alternantha reinikii is a plant that needs high light? The marselia looks good, had not thought of that. How is this for an aquascape?
> 
> ...





minceymeatpie said:


> Maybe I should clarify why I have a "fixation" on the T5HO... it is because I am getting it used for $50. So if I can drive T5NO bulbs on this it would be great - and give me the option at a later date of converting to higher tech if I want by changing up the light.
> 
> Maybe I will just use one T5HO bulb for now - assuming it is safe to do that on a double-light fixture?



you can get a carpet in low tech/low light. It might take a bit longer, or more plants in the foreground from the start for more spread. but it is possible.

I grow alternanthera in low light, it might not stay as red as it would in high light/CO2 but it grows very well nonetheless. 

personally I like bacopa way more than egeria densa either way nothing wrong with a jungle.

I might be wrong but the T5HO fixture would probably overdrive the T5NO bulbs and thus shortening the life of the bulbs and/or ballast.

What about using a glass lid, but ditching the canopy? then you could use the dual t5ho light and raise it about 8-12 inches above the tank to provide the lower light. OR
It might be possible to run 1 t5HO bulb in the light, just depends on the fixture if it works or not. Then you can have it 2-4 inches above the top and you should be in good shape.


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## minceymeatpie (May 4, 2012)

*Finalised plan*

So I did a bunch of reading all day and then went to the 3 fish shops in town only to discover that other than Petsmart which offered some very unhealthy looking plants *with labels*, Pets Unlimited and the LFS offered random plants labelled as "tall", "medium", "short". Ummm seeing as I am so new to this I declined to spend money on random plants that might all just die in my tank since I can't identify them beforehand.

Enter Spencer Jack's fish lists from which I have decided to plant my tank the following way:

foreground:
cryptocoryne parva
java moss (on driftwood)

midground:
anubias barteri var. nana (on driftwood)
cryptocoryne wendtii tropica

background:
bacopa monieri
java fern

Am I right in assuming that I can plant c.parva and c.wendtii directly into the substrate as well as b.monieri and java fern? or are these also better just loosely tied on to slate etc?

I also picked up the T5H0 48" dual light fixture today... I couldn't resist - it retails for $200 new and I got it for $50 in perfect working condition... I will experiment with raising the light and taking off the canopy, or raising the canopy perhaps...

Thanks for the info and if you notice anything horrifically wrong with the above plan please let me know!!


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## kamikazi (Sep 3, 2010)

minceymeatpie said:


> So I did a bunch of reading all day and then went to the 3 fish shops in town only to discover that other than Petsmart which offered some very unhealthy looking plants *with labels*, Pets Unlimited and the LFS offered random plants labelled as "tall", "medium", "short". Ummm seeing as I am so new to this I declined to spend money on random plants that might all just die in my tank since I can't identify them beforehand.
> 
> Enter Spencer Jack's fish lists from which I have decided to plant my tank the following way:
> 
> ...


You were smart not to be seduced by the questionable plant selections at the stores. Around me there a couple stores that sell plants and occasionally they have plants suitable for aquatics much less my specific needs. Swap-shop, online stores, and local fish club are the best places to find plants I found.

As far as your plan I think it sounds great. Crypts, bacopa should be planted directly into the substrate. The java fern will do best tied to rocks or wood, however you can tie it to a small rock to hold it in its place at the bottom and it will send its roots into the substrate to anchor. The key to anubias and java fern and other plants with rhizomes is to not bury the rhizome.

Thats a good deal on the light. I think its worth ditching the canopy to be able to raise the light in order to use it. How heavy is the canopy? I think it will be a much cleaner look if you have a glass top with only a raised light without the canopy. I had a feeling you would drift away from the idea that your lighting HAD to be in canopy right on top of the tank.


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