# First time, overwhelmed.



## Kaiede (Sep 11, 2017)

Letting the plants get established before adding fish is a good idea. It’s not required if the cycle is complete, but confirming that they are growing means you will have their help handling fish waste. But, I will say, you don’t need to wait to get the plants going. With both of my planted tanks, the first round of planting was done the same day as the substrate and water addition. Just don’t do large doses of ammonia, which you won’t have with fish food dosing, and you’ll be fine.

For low light, the plants you will be dealing with are among the hardiest and easiest to care for in the hobby. Getting correct PH and the like isn’t the biggest hurdle in front of you. If mainly planting water column feeders, an inert substrate with root tabs around the root feeders will be fine, as far as I know, because it’s how I run my tanks, and I get good growth from the column feeders.

Overall, don’t complicate it too much. I wouldn’t be trying to mimic a specific biome or style just yet. I’d also suggest planting in rounds. Start with a lynchpin Plant you want in each area of the tank, and as you are working with the tank, you should start getting an idea of what you want next in the area. Maybe you won’t know the species, but you should be able to describe what you want enough for someone to help provide ideas. Both of my tanks took 3+ rounds of planting before I considered it “good enough” to let it grow out from there. But I also planted 1-3 plants at a time, depending on the tank size.

Edit: It also takes me about 3-4 weeks to finish planting a tank this way. But I like the slow approach.


----------



## requiem (Oct 25, 2008)

Hello and welcome to this great forum! 

My approach is a bit different. When I start a tank I add as many cheap fast growing plants as I can afford. Once the tank is well established I replace them gradually with fancier ones. I find this works best for two reasons: the plants outcompete the algae; since doing this I've completely skipped the dreaded algae phase of young tanks(as long as your lights are reasonable of course) . The second reason is more absorption of fish waste leading to a better balance and less water changes.

Keep us posted on your project! Looking forward to seeing how it turns out


----------



## CT_Ram (Sep 10, 2017)

I am on this site to learn about plants cause I don't know much about it. So I will not comment much on that. 
I do have a bit of fear of open tanks. Fish do jump. I had a rasbora espei and a black neon jumping off the tank at a height of like 4 cm (they survived cause there was a tank right next to it). I keep the endlers in open tanks and once I filled one too much and 3 jumped off, I filled like until like 3 cm from the rim instead of the usual 4 cm from the rim... Now I have frogbite or some other floating plants on top so they don't get ideas. 
There are a lot of tetras and rasboras to chose from so I am sure some will catch your eye. I would just keep an eye for jumpers for a while. I have no idea what those people that have pictures of rimless, lidless tanks filled to the brim do. My fish are not that well mannered! 
I never had them but white cloud minnow are a cool looking fish that do not need heated water in a normal home. I do not really know if they are super active for a 16g. Just an idea.
Ecocomplete is a nice gravel with some "plant nutrition". There are a lot of options, I think this is a personal taste choice. I have ecocomplete (3tanks), flourite (2tanks) and "black moon sand" or whatever the name is (2 tanks). I found the ecocomplete the easiest to setup and vacum. But this is very subjective I guess.
I am totally newby with plants so I keep only the classics: cryps, java ferns, anubias, hygrophila, rotala (the other things would not fit on your tank - valls, bulb plants...). I also felt that is easiest to start with faster growing plants. Stuff like water sprite was good to start - I ended up taking it off cause was a lot of trouble to keep it trimmed and I prefer non-stem plants for easier maintenance. In my newby opinion, the easy anubias and ferns have a little problem in new tanks, before you get the lights right they will be covered with algae because they grow really slow. Or just start with really low light and they will be fine. 

So, just ideas. Each person kind of has their own style so it is hard to suggest/listen to suggestions.


----------



## mbkemp (Dec 15, 2016)

Take a look at black diamond blasting sand. It’s inert, looks good, cheap!

I will echo the above. Pack it full of fast growing plants from the get go. Hornwort, anachris, whatever. From there, grow what you like and works in your tank. Some will, some won’t. Don’t stress, keep trying. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Aquatic Neurotic (Oct 22, 2017)

I wanted to have some driftwood in the tank, maybe have some moss and/or anubias on it, but I am apprehensive about the wood tannins turning my water brown. 

I learned that tetras prefer water on the soft side and my tap water is hard. I know I can soften it, but maybe it's unwise to set myself up to always be fighting against what I have. Should I be looking for fish that like harder water (I believe guppies would be an example?)


----------



## Aquatic Neurotic (Oct 22, 2017)

Regarding my preference for open top - I am concerned about jumpers of course. I have some ideas about how to prevent it: choose fish wisely, don't fill water to the very top, have some floating plants on top like frogbit. But I also would love to have shrimp eventually and if I get shrimp I will have to put some kind of top on the tank. I really like the look of open top and I like the idea of more efficient gas exchange, but I will use a hood if that is really what's best. I'd never forgive myself if a fish jumped out and died.


----------



## CT_Ram (Sep 10, 2017)

A male betta, like for example a little school of panda cories and maybe a couple otos would not jump for sure. But stocking is really a personal choice. It is indeed overwhelming to start the first one. Too much choice...

Corydoras are my favorite kind of fish so I would always chose that. Pandas are super cute in my opinion, and I think are small enough for your tank (I don't have them cause I run my tanks hotter than their comfort temperature so I don't know much about them). 

For algae cleaning you kind of have Otos, nerite snails and amano shrimps. The otos can die in the first weeks, nerite snails leave white eggs around and amano shrimp will need a lid. So pick your poison. With very low light you may not have any of these problems and even just red cherry shrimp can clean enough. I am not against snails so I have ramshorn and MTS to clean dead leaves and leftover food in the small tanks, they also prevent algae. I would say that having these snails is controversial cause you can easily get overrun. Britlenose plecos are great cleaning the tank but I think they may be too big for your tank. The albino females tend to stay smallish but I think still too big.

Driftwood stains the water but if you add a bag of purigen to your filter it will come crystal clear. 

With anubias be careful to really shade them in the beginning. They can easily get algae. When you setup your tank you will have a month where a brown layer of diatoms will comer everything. It will look terrible but will go away. The anubias are so slow growing that will look worst than the faster growing plants. This will go away on its own. Then you can risk black beard algae and green spot algae on the anubias. You may than read that SAE will eat the beard algae but they get huge after a few month so I would really tell you not to put them in your tank. If you are starting really shade the anubias is all I can say. It is easier to prevent them for getting algae than to correct it. So the advice still goes to add fast growing plants to suck all the first nitrates that will come out of the cycling of the filter to prevent the brown cover.

Guppies indeed like harder water, some people even add a touch of salt to their water. If you get a good stock they are great. Ask the person selling them. They will know if they are week. Excessive inbreeding made some guppies week. There is a similar fish to guppies that are endlers that are less inbreed and a little smaller. You can look into that. They are more active than guppies so I don't know if you like calmer fish or more activity. You can combine those guppies or guppy-like with red cherry shrimp and should be ok in your tank. Fish always eat baby shrimp. They have a sign on my LFS near the shrimp saying "the only shrimp fish are otos" I guess everyone asks that.

Indeed tetras like softer water. I don't know what levels of hardness are you talking about though. There are some tetras that can adapt to harder water. There are a lot of tetras...


----------



## Aquatic Neurotic (Oct 22, 2017)

I am so appreciative of the responses! Very helpful, thank you.

So I will get lots of plants going to start. I feel like I should "get to know my water" before adding fish. Like let the plants grow a bit, test the water a few times, and then choose fish. I would eventually like to have some sort of "clean up crew" species but there is so much to consider, like for shrimp I'd need to cover the tank. I wonder if there is a screen I could use instead of a hood.

I am so drawn to schooling fish and it really seems like tetras are the best schoolers. I discovered Silvertip Tetras yesterday, wow they are pretty entertaining with the feeding frenzies and following their owners finger as a school! I did actually wonder if they are too spunky for me! I am a high strung person and one reason I am starting this hobby is to find some relaxation so I don't know if feisty fish would be relaxing to watch. Certainly amusing though! Even guppies how they all dart around in different directions I don't know if I'd be relaxed by it (yes I have been watching Youtube videos of various fish species non-stop). The fish I've found so far that I could realistically have that relax me to look at are neon tetras and betta fish, and the bettas are kind of best of both worlds because they relax AND amuse me. I just hesitate to go with a betta because then it will severely limit adding anyone else to the tank, and I do feel 16 gallons is quite a tank for just a single betta, but if the fish loved it I'd be happy. 

Some plants I am considering: For some height, Bacopa and some type of Val (but I know the val could be a mistake so I'm cautious on that one). For my rhizome / water column feeders Java Fern and Anubias. And mosses - Java Moss, Flame Moss, and I gotta have some moss balls I just love those. But I don't think all of these like the same conditions (same lighting, temps, etc.) so I need to keep working on it. 

Wish I was a better designer but unfortunately I don't have a lot of artisic talent. I really wanted to mimic a tree with moss strategically attached to a tree-looking piece of driftwood but maybe that's not as easy as I imagine?


----------



## Carson Albright (Apr 1, 2010)

As a first time ada user for a planted tank, I would definitely go with ada aquasoil. I've done gravel, flourite and sand, and my most recent tank with ada aquasoil has been the easiest to maintain so far. Be prepared for a super long cycle if you use it though. If you are ok letting plants get established first and then adding fish, aquasoil is a good option.


----------



## Aquatic Neurotic (Oct 22, 2017)

Carson Albright said:


> As a first time ada user for a planted tank, I would definitely go with ada aquasoil. I've done gravel, flourite and sand, and my most recent tank with ada aquasoil has been the easiest to maintain so far. Be prepared for a super long cycle if you use it though. If you are ok letting plants get established first and then adding fish, aquasoil is a good option.


Is it easy for cleaning with the vacuum / siphon?

My other concern about ADA Aquasoil is it will need to be changed out eventually whereas gravel I think I would never have to remove and replace? The thought of having to re-do my substrate is daunting for me. But from my research it does seem like ADA Aquasoil is top of the line substrate for a planted tank.


----------



## CT_Ram (Sep 10, 2017)

lol, silver tip are definitely not what I would call relaxing! They do not stop flashing to each other! They are pretty and colorful. they are one of the easiest tetras to breed so maybe you even get interested in breeding fish. 
Knowing your water sounds like a good plan!
Also, some bettas are nice enough to be kept with other fish. They do not need to be alone. There are of course psycho-killer ones but some are peaceful enough to keep with not-showy fish. Like you cannot put bettas with guppies but you can keep them with corys and even some tetras (as a general rule. of course each fish has its own personality). You can also check rasboras, some are good schoolers.


----------



## Joshism (Nov 26, 2015)

Before you add substrate, you should use lava rock under the substrate as an alternative to ADA Power Sand to give room for the beneficial bacteria to breathe and move around. With just substrate, the bacteria underneath die off and produce a lot of ammonia, which results in algae. I found this information on this video below. Fast forward to 8:00.


----------



## Aquatic Neurotic (Oct 22, 2017)

I want to order my water test kits now so just checking in here to see what everyone thinks of the ones I am thinking of ordering: API Master Kit and API GH & KH. Will those be good and all I need? Or is there a better test kit?

I also happen to have a TDS meter and I have test strips for my pool so I wonder if any of that would also be useful. I will probably use them for my aquarium just out of curiosity when I first get it going haha!


----------



## DigityDog70 (Jan 20, 2017)

AN, which "area" do you live in. Often times, if you're lucky, a friend or someone on the forum may help you via a RAOK and provide you with either a bio bag or a filter pad from a tank prior to a water change. This will allow you to kick-start your Nitrogen cycle. 

Here's how I would start out: 
Figure out the following in this order - 

Plants - plant types = substrate requirements 
Fish type = how many plants and what type of shade and lighting requirements are necessary
AquaClear 30 is probably the most efficient filter you can get for a small HOB filter for this size tank. Try and throw some filter fiber in their and throw the porcelin biological media into a bag and zip tie it and never remove it, we can get into that more later. Now you have filtration, flow and surface agitation. 
Heater - get one that is well reviewed and can be calibrated easily. 
Light, you can pick up Marineland LED light strip since this is Low tech. If you want more light for "higher" tech plants, that will come later. 
At a minimum, I think you should consider Excel, Prime or AquaSafe Plus, StressCoat Plus by API and perhaps a bottle of API leaf zone. Again we're talking "low tech" so you may not really need any of these. 


In my opinion, you can't really have "just" one tank as you should really have a 5Gal tank, with a sponge running, a heater that allows you to set the temp. "don't ever buy a heater that just turns on, people often make that mistake when first starting out and those heaters are a waste of money in my opinion and maybe a few Neons or most any non-cichlid fish in as your hospital, quarantine tank. This is a responsibility in my opinion where a lot of people start out overzealous and are not guided down the right path, your fish die you get bummed out and ... it's good to quarantine your fish when you're first starting out and can't hurt to start out with 8oz bottle of PIMA FIX and MELA FIX. If anything is for certain, you won't have anyone tell you "not to have a quarantine tank" although some may say, "you could probably get away without one, but if you can afford it, get one up and running. 

Also, I like floating plants to get a tank started as there are so many benefits and they can be grown in a low tech tank such as Water lettuce
Water hyacinth, Frogbit Brazilian pennywort, Phyllanthus Fluitans. Stem plants, Amazon Sword, Rotalia Indica, Anubias gracilis a large specimen. These floating plants are all at the easy level, look good, remove nitrates and wastes as good as any stem or carpet plants, provide shelter if you able to kick start your tank immediately via someone's RAOK. Grab some nice pieces of driftwood, boil and soak them, get some java moss and some fishing line or matching green sewing thread and make some trees in your tank (easy peasy). 

For fish, one of the most underrated, but very resilient and beautiful fish (IMHO) an interesting fish would be cherry barbs, 6 males and 3 females. These can withstand some punishment as you're learning. Small "Clown Plecos" "AFTER" you have established your tank and if you don't plan on doing a lot of replanting, half a dozen Sterbai Corydoras. There are so many fish and your LFS will usually have some type of happy healthy Tetra species. Stay away from Platys and Mollies for starters as they don't tend to be the most resilient fish and you may have a ton of them in your tank in no time due to the prolific breading nature. 

For substrate, I actually think that you're better off with a substrate like ADA or Fluvla Statrum that supplies the nutrients unless you're going to jump right into the EI dosing regimen and use the Seachem calendar:
http://www.seachem.com/downloads/charts/Plant-Dose-Chart.pdf

At a minimum, depending upon what type of plants you get, will help us to provide you with the type of substrate you should get. So, find out what plants you like first and then we can help you with the substrate. Since you said Anubias and mosses, you could get away with gravel and no ADA or other nutrient-rich substrates will be needed and you can provide these plants with liquid ferts via the water column. 

Welcome, cheers and good luck! Ask lots of questions. 

DD


----------



## Aquatic Neurotic (Oct 22, 2017)

Once again, so thankful for the amazing tips and advice here! Having a 5 gal quarantine tank is a wonderful idea. Just today I found the store I am going to buy my fish from, it's an hour away but looks considerably better than the places closer to me. I saw on their FB page that they quarantine all fish before selling. Should I still quarantine myself when I get them home? Also, maybe I should go to this store and ask if they'll give me a squeeze from a filter sponge so I can start with some good bacteria in my tank?

I can tell this is going to be an addictive hobby. I already have a location picked out for a second larger tank after I get some hands-on learning with the first one. I'm so excited to get started!


----------



## CT_Ram (Sep 10, 2017)

+1 to everything DigityDog70 said. I don't know how much you trust you LFS. In general a lot of new fish pass through a store and many will carry diseases. A squeeze from a store filter would not be my first choice. People are advised not to even put the water the fish came in in their own tanks cause store=disease. It would be better from a person with a long time established tank.


----------



## Bananableps (Nov 6, 2013)

If you are going low-tech, you might as well go dirted. For the same (or less) cost of a low tech tank with inert substrate, you can keep a low tech dirted tank that will expand your plant options dramatically and make the entire process simpler. With dirt, you don't have to worry about fertilizer supplementation, and CO2 levels will be much higher than they would be with inert substrate. If your goal right now is just to learn how to take care of aquatic plants, there is no advantage to having an inert-substrate setup. 

I recommend doing a little research on dirted tanks. If you want to dig deeper, _Ecology of the Planted Tank_ is a staple of the hobby. A couple of notes though:

1) Successful capping of the dirt is essential. Gravel is often used and has some advantages, but sand is the most risk-free option. A 1" cap is adequate. Be very careful when adding water not to breach the cap.

2) Moving plants around in a dirted tank takes a little extra care. If they are rooted, you will need to use scissors to cut the roots under the substrate. Otherwise, the roots may bring up a cloud of dirt into the water column. If you have adequate filtration, this introduced dirt will only be a temporary inconvenience, but non-dirted tank people like to make a big deal out of it so I thought I'd mention it.

3) With dirt, there is margin to increase your lighting more over time without having to worry about algae increase. Most of the nutrients in a dirted tank are locked up in the substrate, where it is inaccessible to algae. With dirt, if you want to introduce fancier, more colorful plants in the future, all you have to do is increase your light - there is no need to add more fertilizer or CO2.


----------



## benstatic (Oct 15, 2017)

Well, one thing I did hear is you want this to be a relaxing tank. Fish tank maintenance can become a pain in the behind.
You sound like me though - a lot of worry and research going in, and then overthinking it all... Sometimes just getting it going is half the fun - you sound ready 

*Set up*
I like your plan - plant out the tank (as many plants as you want - they do out compete the algae.)

My advice on lighting - get as much light as you want to spend $$ on. If you want to keep it affordable for your initial tank - low light will work fine - just get a good color spectrum on a 1 or 2 tube fluorescent fixture. LED would be better - but more cost.

On the substrate - more experienced people with aquatic plants will know better than me. In a low tech / non CO2 enriched tank, I don't think substrate matters a whole lot - your plants won't use the nutrition very fast, and soil might be more an aesthetic choice than a functional choice. You can do seachem flourite like I have - its clay and has some mineral content in it (iron for the plants). Or you can do coated aquarium gravel which offers no nutrition and use root tabs for the root feeders. Soil sounds scary to me personally - I worry about a soupy mess full of algae! But people are successful with it - but I think they are using it more for hi-tech tanks - people should correct me about that if I am wrong.

Plan on a single heater sized for your tank, a filter (hang on back or sponge will be fine for a 16 gal). Heaters fail from time to time, so you might want a thermometer to keep an eye on water temp.
Don't use activated charcoal in your filter unless you want to clean up a fish illness or something (it strips the water of nutrients being used by the plants).

My advice on fish - 
Try something cheap out - and expect a casualty or two. 
As a father of a son who likes a bunch of different kinds of fish - I would highly recommend (for aesthetics) picking no more than 2 types of schooling fish. Don't be like my son and get 7 different kinds of fish - you will hate some of them - or resent that they are taking up the space to make really cool displays with just 2 / 3 species.
Give thought to leaving room for a single / pair of feature fish like apisto's or angelfish - they are more interesting in terms of behaviors. 
Ask the fish store guy if they will eat each other before making purchases. 
Think about getting algae eaters (oto's or shrimp)

*Maintenance*
I wouldn't worry (personally) about water chemistry other than knowing about the nitrogen cycle in your tank, and just plan on doing regular water changes (1 time per week) - 20% usually suits everything fine. Clean / rinse your filter media once a month, replace that floss every couple months. Don't overload the tank - and keep the number of fish to a minimum while its nitrogen cycling - you want enough fish to introduce nitrogen, but not have to replace water every day during the cycle. 
Once / if algae becomes a problem (on plants) - you can start researching more there - water changes are your friend in the meantime.

Let it ride for a few months and see if you want to ramp up / scale back / stay the same on your investment / hobby commitment.


----------



## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

So many good approaches, above, for you to consider. My one addition: add a bag of Seachem Purigen to your filter to keep your water clear and remove nasty organics.


----------



## CT_Ram (Sep 10, 2017)

Just a note. I would really advice against a angelfish in a 16 gallon. They get huge! And they are known to eat tetras when they get to that size. 
For stocking you can use Aquadvisor. google it cause I am not being able to paste the link. It lets you put your intended fish and then will say how much filtration, water changes, if they are compatible to your tank size... It is a really good tool to start with. You should really try it IMO.
Remember that the size you buy the fish is not their final size. Some grow a lot!
A more size compatible "center piece" fish for a 16g would be like for example a honey gourami. And would do well with any school of tetras or rasboras.
Good luck!


----------



## Aquatic Neurotic (Oct 22, 2017)

The largest fish I would consider for this tank would be a single male betta, and if I go that route he'll probably be the only fish in there. Alternatively considering a group of small schooling fish. Waiting to see what my water is really like once I get the driftwood, rocks, and plants in for a while. I will match my fish to my water conditions. For example if I end up with harder water, I will go for the betta, if somehow the driftwood softens up my water, I will go for the schooling fish like maybe some tetras. 

I am also loving some of the guppy varieties, but think I will hold off on owning guppies because of the reproduction aspect. I'd want to have a much bigger tank for them since their numbers will likely increase. 

Still have not figured out what kind of light to get. I think I want to do LED but as far as brand and style (spot lights vs one that runs the length of the tank) I am not getting any answers. Started a separate thread on this in hopes of getting advice.

Today's anxiety is concerning rock sourcing. I have such a fear of putting anything in the tank that will be harmful. I saw some simple slate rocks on Etsy that I would love to use for attaching moss, but is it crazy to trust rocks from Etsy?? The listing says they are slate rocks from Lake Erie and reviewers show them in their aquariums..

Thanks again for all the awesome info!


----------



## Bananableps (Nov 6, 2013)

benstatic said:


> Soil sounds scary to me personally - I worry about a soupy mess full of algae! But people are successful with it - but I think they are using it more for hi-tech tanks - people should correct me about that if I am wrong.


*corrects you about that* 

There are some dirted high tech people now, but classically it is a low-tech approach. I run my tanks just dirt and light and I very rarely experience any algae problems.


----------



## ac0xr (Aug 13, 2014)

I'm another low-tech dirt person, and I don't have algae problems either.

I do 50% water changes every week however, so I'm sure that affects it.

It is honestly very easy to overthink it; I know because I did! My advice would be to just get started and see where it goes. There sure are a lot of choices though, aren't there :wink2:.

Regarding the rock question: While I certainly don't guarantee that the rock will be fine, I think it would be. I use rocks I collect myself in my tanks with no ill effects. You could a test with vinegar to see if it fizzes or, better yet, get a small container and fill it with water, test water parameters, put the rock in and wait a few days and test parameters again to see if it affects it.

Bottom line: Stock plants heavily. Stock fish lightly. Do large water changes often. Have fun!

Just my $0.02 :icon_smil.


----------



## hennyis1 (Oct 5, 2017)

Bananableps said:


> *corrects you about that*
> 
> There are some dirted high tech people now, but classically it is a low-tech approach. I run my tanks just dirt and light and I very rarely experience any algae problems.


Teach me your ways!! 
I don't mean to hijack this thread, but I started my dirted tank a little over a week ago and I'm starting to regret it. Most of the plants have melted pretty badly and are dying off. I thought I did well in my research but I think I'm in a bit over my head...


----------



## Aquatic Neurotic (Oct 22, 2017)

The HOB filter that comes with my tank is supposed to be pretty weak (according to reviews). Maybe that's fine? Can I additionally run a sponge filter in the tank? Does anyone know about planting a plant in a HOB filter? Are there some fish that are bothered by sponge filters or water flow in general caused by filters?


----------



## hennyis1 (Oct 5, 2017)

ac0xr said:


> I'm another low-tech dirt person, and I don't have algae problems either.
> 
> Bottom line: Stock plants heavily. Stock fish lightly. Do large water changes often. Have fun!
> 
> Just my $0.02 :icon_smil.


So even if my plants aren't doing so well would adding more to "heavily" stock the tank help? I'm thinking maybe my tank isn't stocked enough for a dirted tank at the moment despite having a dirted tank. :/


----------



## Aquatic Neurotic (Oct 22, 2017)

Now I am trying to figure out if a sponge filter or a sponge pre-filter is better.


----------



## CT_Ram (Sep 10, 2017)

I personally have sponge prefilters on the HOB filters in the smaller aquariums. I think they work great. You see the flow slowing down > you rinse the prefilter, easy enough. Most people love sponge filters. I think they make noise and I don't know if they are clogged or not (I have all the fish tanks in my small living room, in my small apartment - low noise is very important). Some tanks are overstocked so I they get 2 HOBs with sponge prefilters! But really, every person has a different opinion on this. 

You can put your filter brand and intended stock in Aquadvisor and it will tell you if is enough. Overfiltration is always better.


----------



## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

Aquatic Neurotic said:


> Now I am trying to figure out if a sponge filter or a sponge pre-filter is better.


Unless you need/want a chemical filter (such as Purigen) a sponge filter on a pump is all you need. Of course, that takes up valuable space in a tank. I prefer a canister or HOB just because it's outside the tank.

Once you have a healthy tank established, with plenty of plants, it is even possible to remove your bio-media altogether and just rely upon the mechanical filtration. The plants and substrate will step in to act as the bio-filter.


----------



## Aquatic Neurotic (Oct 22, 2017)

I'm very frustrated. The first tank I ordered arrived with a chip in the glass. So I ordered a replacement. And it arrived with a hairline scratch. In both cases the damage is on the outside edge.


----------



## Proteus01 (Mar 12, 2017)

Sorry to hear about the tank damage. A little 4g tank I had shipped was damaged, and so was the next. On a good note, I now have three of these after a bit of repair work. I had a store order me a 40B that took a while, 'cause it came in broken twice (but still $40). 

As for the slate: typical Ohio slate is neutral, as long as it is actually slate. You may be able to pick up lots of it at a mulch/landscape bulk store pretty darn cheap. 

Instead of vinegar for the alkalinity check, I recommend muriatic acid. It's cheaper, and stronger, and available at most hardware/home stores. Vinegar may not yield a noticeable fizz on some rocks while muriatic acid sounds like rice krispies in milk. You can take a little bottle of it with you to the landscape store to try before you buy.


----------



## Aquatic Neurotic (Oct 22, 2017)

Yep the only good thing about these slightly damaged tanks is that I get to keep them and I get my money refunded, so eventually I may take them both apart and combine them to create one un-damaged tank. Have been watching videos on how to take apart and reassemble glass tanks. I ordered another replacement tank and if it comes damaged again I will have to figure out another way. It's hard to be patient when I am so excited to buy my plants and get started!

Thanks for that info about slate rocks and testing with muriatic acid.


----------



## JJ09 (Sep 11, 2014)

If you're still trying to decide about fish, you could think about a solo 'giant' betta. I've seen a few- they're nearly twice as large as a regular betta. I keep normal size betta by itself in a ten-gallon, so I think a 'giant' would be ok in 16 gal.

You could also consider a paradise fish, or a gourami. I think the have similar temperaments to bettas- although each is an individual of course.


----------



## Aquatic Neurotic (Oct 22, 2017)

I bought slate rocks from Etsy. Love the look of them. Tested with both white vinegar and muriatic acid. No reaction whatsoever. Then I took a knife and scratched into the surface of a couple rocks. It was very easy to scratch into them and the material I scratched off turned to mush when I rubbed it between my finger and thumb. When I put a scratched up rock in a container of white vinegar it created a film on the surface of the vinegar. One of the heavier rocks broke right in half when I dropped it. These rocks are also incredibly filthy, I have scrubbed and scrubbed and there is still dirty looking stuff coming off of them when I rinse. So does it seem like these are not suitable for an aquarium?


----------



## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

You've received some fantastic advice thus far. Ive done dirt and would never do it again. You are going to want to rearrange plants and that will stir everything up and its just a pain. I like black sand. For plants I would do water wisteria, bacopa coroliniana, and some of the common crypts as well as anubias and moss. Those are the most resilient and least demanding. Even java fern and those failed to thrive in my low tech tanks. Now they are all high tech. I would also just go with a 20 gallon long if at all possible. You will be happy you did in so may ways. Also get a gallon of metricide on Amazon. $26 and it will make your life so much easier with better plant growth and suppression of algae. Find a nice piece of driftwood. From there plant it and figure out where you will get your used filter media. Youll move the plants and everything around for several weeks. 
You keep mentioning Neons... there is a reason for that. They are gorgeous and can normally be found for $1 a piece. As someone who lost a good number of fish I would tell you that you need to simply treat the tank. If there are no fish in there who are you quarantining from? A treatment of General Cure or what I used is Paraguard. I would start with a group of maybe 4 Cories (I love pandas) and if you have enough media or can borrow a second filter I would add 10 neons and treat the whole tank. 
That's an exact step by step. It will ensure the least room for issues. If you can only get a small portion of filter I would probably do the Neons since they are probably the most likely to have something. Make sure there is 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite. Follow this and your plants will grow quickly and you will skip right past most of the bumps. I wish I had known. Metricide is an absolute necessity for my Low tech tanks. I even dose it occasionally in my high tech tanks to spot treat algae. A gallon would probably last a year.

Bump:


Aquatic Neurotic said:


> I bought slate rocks from Etsy. Love the look of them. Tested with both white vinegar and muriatic acid. No reaction whatsoever. Then I took a knife and scratched into the surface of a couple rocks. It was very easy to scratch into them and the material I scratched off turned to mush when I rubbed it between my finger and thumb. When I put a scratched up rock in a container of white vinegar it created a film on the surface of the vinegar. One of the heavier rocks broke right in half when I dropped it. These rocks are also incredibly filthy, I have scrubbed and scrubbed and there is still dirty looking stuff coming off of them when I rinse. So does it seem like these are not suitable for an aquarium?


I wouldn't use them. Imagine the filth after they have been sitting in a tank of water for a month. Driftwood is the way I would go. Ive also used obsidian (black volcanic rock) and chunks of granite. Driftwood may have a very sublte effect on the pH. Fish just like it. In a 20 long you could easily to 20 Neons and 5 or 6 panda cories. It would be a joy of a tank


----------



## Aquatic Neurotic (Oct 22, 2017)

I just tried scratching the rocks with my fingernail and it was easy. So I guess I wasted money buying them, I won't be able to use them in the tank and the seller doesn't do returns or refunds.

I'm waiting for my driftwood to arrive, maybe I will just use the wood and no rocks. 

The design I have in mind now will be bacopa caroliniana and rotala indica for background and sides, moss and several anubias on the driftwood (coffeefolia, nana petite, barteri), a dwarf lily wherever it looks best, some pennywort floating, and possibly crypt parva in foreground.


----------



## The Bungulo (Aug 28, 2017)

CT_Ram said:


> Just a note. I would really advice against a angelfish in a 16 gallon. They get huge! And they are known to eat tetras when they get to that size.
> For stocking you can use Aquadvisor. google it cause I am not being able to paste the link. It lets you put your intended fish and then will say how much filtration, water changes, if they are compatible to your tank size... It is a really good tool to start with. You should really try it IMO.
> Remember that the size you buy the fish is not their final size. Some grow a lot!
> A more size compatible "center piece" fish for a 16g would be like for example a honey gourami. And would do well with any school of tetras or rasboras.
> Good luck!


Angelfishes are strictly 30g+. Usually they will grow to the size the tank allows; mine in my 30g are only 5 inches tall, and they dont grow much bigger than that in a 30g. If you were to keep them in a 90g like my grandmother did, they grow into huge discs, max. 6 inches LONG. 16g is waaay too small, 30g+ ONLY.


----------



## Aquatic Neurotic (Oct 22, 2017)

Yes I was never considering angel fish for this tank. Will decide on fish once my plants are established and I test the water several times. One thing I am thinking about a lot though, is the open top idea. I really don't want a hood, but am reading all these stories of fish jumping out, and that's obviously concerning to me. The thing is in plenty of these cases there was a hood on the tank but fish still found a place to jump out. It seems like there are certain species notorious for jumping, but are there other species that it would be almost unheard of for them to fly out of the tank?


----------



## Aquatic Neurotic (Oct 22, 2017)

The 3rd aquarium arrived today. Thought it was ok but just went over it again and found a small scratch / crack on the glass inside. Similar to the scratch in the picture I posted before but smaller and this time instead of outside edge it's lower down on the inside of tank. I have been ordering these tanks on Amazon. Even as poorly as they're packed I actually suspect they are being shipped already damaged as opposed to getting damaged in transit. I think the seller just has a bunch of damaged / returned aquariums and I bet some people buying them are actually using them not realizing their tank has a chip or crack. I did read that a small crack on the inside of tank is better than on the outside, but of course I can't chance it. 

It's not going well so far!


----------



## Junelle (Oct 22, 2017)

I'm sorry to hear about that! What tank are you buying anyway? Why not get a high quality tank from reputable sources like AFA or someone else instead?


----------



## Aquatic Neurotic (Oct 22, 2017)

I have been ordering the Aqueon 16 gal widescreen. On Amazon it is $104, on other sites it is $139 - $159. The only reason I picked this tank is that it has the absolute perfect dimensions for where I am putting it. It's 30" long, 17" high, 8.5" wide. I've decided I am going to take apart all 3 tanks and attempt to make a couple undamaged tanks out of them. A little daunting but I think I can do it...


----------



## Junelle (Oct 22, 2017)

That sounds like a difficult thing to do. I'd probably make things worse by trying to take them apart. Best of luck to you! Show us more pictures once you're done!


----------



## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Aquatic Neurotic said:


> The 3rd aquarium arrived today. Thought it was ok but just went over it again and found a small scratch / crack on the glass inside. Similar to the scratch in the picture I posted before but smaller and this time instead of outside edge it's lower down on the inside of tank. I have been ordering these tanks on Amazon. Even as poorly as they're packed I actually suspect they are being shipped already damaged as opposed to getting damaged in transit. I think the seller just has a bunch of damaged / returned aquariums and I bet some people buying them are actually using them not realizing their tank has a chip or crack. I did read that a small crack on the inside of tank is better than on the outside, but of course I can't chance it.
> 
> It's not going well so far!


Petco has the $1 per gallon sale going on right now. I bought a 20 long for $20. I may try to squirrel away enough cash for another and a 40 breeder

Bump:


Aquatic Neurotic said:


> I have been ordering the Aqueon 16 gal widescreen. On Amazon it is $104, on other sites it is $139 - $159. The only reason I picked this tank is that it has the absolute perfect dimensions for where I am putting it. It's 30" long, 17" high, 8.5" wide. I've decided I am going to take apart all 3 tanks and attempt to make a couple undamaged tanks out of them. A little daunting but I think I can do it...


Even with clean sheets of glass with no silicone to remove most people fail miserably at that. Given that you will have silicone residue on every sheet I would all but guarantee that it will not work. Sorry. It just isn't an easy process despite appearances


----------



## Aquatic Neurotic (Oct 22, 2017)

The Dude1 said:


> Petco has the $1 per gallon sale going on right now. I bought a 20 long for $20. I may try to squirrel away enough cash for another and a 40 breeder
> 
> 
> Even with clean sheets of glass with no silicone to remove most people fail miserably at that. Given that you will have silicone residue on every sheet I would all but guarantee that it will not work. Sorry. It just isn't an easy process despite appearances


Oh wow I will definitely look into that $1 per gallon sale! I believe you that putting together a tank probably won't work for me. Maybe I shouldn't even waste time trying it, I don't even really know how much I'd trust tanks that I did myself.


----------



## Junelle (Oct 22, 2017)

I still think you should at least give it a shot. Since you now have 3 imperfect tanks lying around, why not just try disassembling it yourself and see how far you can go? Even if you fail, at least you'll know better the next time around.


----------



## blackbirds (Sep 14, 2017)

Other option is that you can ask a pet store to price match if that setup is available at your local store. Some will match online prices, it just depends on who you get.


----------



## Nubster (Aug 9, 2011)

Aquatic Neurotic said:


> I have been ordering the Aqueon 16 gal widescreen. On Amazon it is $104, on other sites it is $139 - $159. The only reason I picked this tank is that it has the absolute perfect dimensions for where I am putting it. It's 30" long, 17" high, 8.5" wide. I've decided I am going to take apart all 3 tanks and attempt to make a couple undamaged tanks out of them. A little daunting but I think I can do it...


Those are some weird dimensions. I don't think I'd personally want a tank that's only 8.5" deep or 17" tall unless it was a bigger tank. I think I'd look at something like a 20L or 29g tank both of which can be purchased from Petco for $1 a gallon right now. The 29g is the same dimensions basically only 1" taller but 4" deeper which is really nice. Still 30" wide. Same with the 20L. 30" wide and 12" deep but only 12" tall. The 40B is an awesome size, maybe the perfect size for a tank less than 75g but not part of the $1 a gallon sale anymore as far as I know but it is still on sale. Just not for $40. More like $80+ I believe. I regret selling mine a couple years ago especially since I did get it for $40.


----------

