# DIY CO2 w/BROWN Sugar. Oiy! :)



## guppygolucky (Nov 9, 2009)

Isn't brown sugar just white sugar with molasses? If so, just mix white sugar, molasses, and then your mix


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## Cboss (Aug 23, 2010)

Do you know how much more CO2 the brown sugar is producing than the white sugar?

I've read about people mixing both types when setting up their DIY CO2, but have never known why.


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## beedee (Jul 1, 2010)

::watching::


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## AdrienDeLaChicago (May 3, 2010)

beedee said:


> ::watching::



Watching what?

I thought brown sugar was unbleached white sugar but if it is made with molasses then that makes sense. This is because I talked to a guy on youtube.com that talked about using molasses in his mix to make the mixture last longer.


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## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

I've read that cane sugar (which is brown in color) will produce more CO2 than white sugar, though I'm not sure if they meant more CO2 at one time, or just that it would increase the life of the DIY unit before a resupply.

Unconfirmed and untested (by me), but just a thought.


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## AdrienDeLaChicago (May 3, 2010)

guppygolucky said:


> Isn't brown sugar just white sugar with molasses? If so, just mix white sugar, molasses, and then your mix


According to wikipedia.com (after my brief research) it appears you are correct. I will create this in the future for myself using molasses, white sugar and aquarium water.


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

Coolness sauce on navy beans! I'm gonna try this! :biggrin:Thank you for not having granulated sugar on stock! :red_mouth


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## RoyalFizbin (Mar 7, 2006)

I've found molasses doesn't make it last longer but it helps start the co2 faster and the co2 is more consistant. The bubbles come out like clock work. Sometimes if i dont add molasses, the co2 can be more sporadic.

86 is kind of high for tank water, especially a panted tank. Is this a discuss tank? Whats the point of using tank water? I use warm water from the tap.


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## AdrienDeLaChicago (May 3, 2010)

RoyalFizbin said:


> Whats the point of using tank water? I use warm water from the tap.


Depending on where you live your tap water may be heavily chlorinated which is not good for fish. It is not good for the yeast cells either, I imagine. I never use tap water for my terrestrial home plants either. I save aquarium water in buckets from my water changes and they love it. It is so much better than tap water. 

You could even just let tap water sit overnight and more than likely the chlorine will evaporate. But usually I do a water change and use the freshly siphoned water to create a new mixture for DIY CO2.

The water gets that warm because I have my tanks stacked vertically on a shelf that I made. It is simply from the heat rising. The tank on top gets pretty hot. I am thinking of getting some sort of cooling system or fan to help blow the rising heat away from the tanks. The tank on the floor (I have five tanks stacked vertically) is 80 degrees. The tank on top can reach 90! But I keep the lid open and it cools down to 84-86.


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## DANIELSON (Jul 15, 2010)

How long does the brown sugar mixture last? My DIY CO2 is very sporadic so i would love more consistancy in my tanks. What size tank do you use 1 2L in? How many do you think for a 35G tank?


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## beedee (Jul 1, 2010)

i may give the brown sugar a try in another week or two when my first batch expires.


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## gringostar9 (Oct 11, 2010)

I'm going to give this recipe a shot tomorrow on my 1st diy co2 system. I have read conflicting things on bakeing soda, but i think i'm going to add just a pinch. According to info i read it does stabilize the ph, but the co2 wont last as long.


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## mayanjungledog (Mar 26, 2009)

I have tried the brown sugar method in the past, and I agree that it does produce more CO2 (I have a drop checker) and lasts longer than white granulated sugar.


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## gringostar9 (Oct 11, 2010)

Brown Sugar Mix is running and im getting a steady flow of co2. It looks like aprox. 3 bubbles per second.


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## beedee (Jul 1, 2010)

^ did you use 2 cups of brown sugar?


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## gringostar9 (Oct 11, 2010)

beedee said:


> ^ did you use 2 cups of brown sugar?


Yes i did. And 1 Teaspoon of yeast, and a pinch of baking soda.


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

Awesome that you guys are getting good results! I tried some in my utra-uber secret DIY too, seems to be doing infinitesimally better than regular white sugar, but I used 1 cup granulated and 1/2 brown (organic brown sugar [everything we buy is natural/organic] is 'too expensive for me to be using it for my fish tank'. I agree. Might just go to the chain store and pick up some standard dark brown sugar for myself and write my name on it in huge letters).

Perhaps brown sugar produces more carbon dioxide because the molasses (naturally found in the sugar cane) in the sugar is too a sweetener: with the sugar, it makes more 'food' available for the yeast to use? Just ramblings....


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## momay (Nov 26, 2009)

i am using this mix in my DIY setup. half a kilo of raw cane sugar (darker in color than normal brown sugar) and it's labeled "RAW" in the packing. plus a teaspoon of instant dry yeast and a teaspoon of baking soda. this is just my first mix and it gives a contant CO2 mist thru a ceramic diffuser (UP D-531). its in a 3/4 filled 2.54l bottle. i have no bubble counter yet.


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## notoptimal (Jan 5, 2007)

defiesexistence said:


> Perhaps brown sugar produces more carbon dioxide because the molasses (naturally found in the sugar cane) in the sugar is too a sweetener: with the sugar, it makes more 'food' available for the yeast to use? Just ramblings....


The molasses has other stuff in it (e.g. minerals) that the yeast need for metabolism and reproduction -- I've seen elsewhere that potassium added to yeast mixes helps with fermentation. I used to use plain sugar & water, but after seeing some online articles that added things like soy proteins and other nutrients, I use a tbsp of molasses and a instant boullion cube in a 2L bottle (1/8 tsp yeast and 2 cups sugar). That goes for about 3 weeks or so, but I change after 2 to keep CO2 production up.

notopt


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## Sharkfood (May 2, 2010)

I was under the impression that molasses and treacle were byproducts from suger refining (whitening).


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## Aioros (Nov 17, 2010)

I also have DIY CO2 systems on both my tanks (10 & 15 Gal) however I have the ones that you can buy which already come with a canister and diffuser. I have always used white granulated sugar (with differing results, no consistency) and it lasts approximately 2-3 Weeks. The thing that I wanted to mention was that the instructions for the mixture say !DO NOT ADD AQUARIUM WATER! I agree with what you mentioned above (Aquarium water is safer and contains no Chlorine) but I am wondering if there are other organisms in the water that might influence the production of CO2?? Just rambling here, curious.


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## beedee (Jul 1, 2010)

i am on my 2nd batch of DIY with brown sugar (2 cups), and 1/2 tsp yeast. its been lasting right around 2.5 to 3 weeks.


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## livingword26 (Oct 28, 2010)

beedee said:


> i am on my 2nd batch of DIY with brown sugar (2 cups), and 1/2 tsp yeast. its been lasting right around 2.5 to 3 weeks.


How consistent is your bubble flow during that time? Bubbles per minute, or per second?


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## beedee (Jul 1, 2010)

during its prime, it is one bubble every 2.5-3 seconds roughly.


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## tbonedeluxe (Mar 10, 2008)

I like all of the comments on the brown sugar approach. Thanks.I may have to check it out. Links for other diy co2 users. Q's and A's on baking soda and 
other topics related to diy co2.
http://www.aquatic-eden.com/2006/09/diy-co2-recipe-duration-vs-intensity.html
http://www.gpodio.com/diy_co2.asp


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## Patriot (Dec 22, 2010)

I tried the brown sugar and in about 15 minutes it started producing CO2 like crazy. I'm getting so many bubble per second I can't even count them, now it have me worrying if it will kill my shrimp and crayfish at night.


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## alvagoldbook (Dec 25, 2010)

Molasses, brown sugar, and white sugar all come from the same source. 

Real brown sugar is just less processed white sugar. These days most store bought brown sugar is white sugar with molasses in it. 

Has anyone ever tried skipping the sugar all together and using molasses only?


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## xbox360 (Apr 13, 2009)

I am wanting to know this also. Can you just use molasses? I would think that having a mixture that is mostly molasses and part sugar would work better, as long as molasses is very beneficial to the system.


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## Beer (Feb 1, 2012)

Molasses is the impurities that are removed from the sugar during the refining process.
EDIT: I checked and molasses is about half sugar
There are most likely compounds that are aiding the yeast in metabolizing the sugar.

Chlorine and chloramines are used to kill microbes and bacteria. Yeast falls into this category as well. I've proofed baking yeast many times in fresh tap water and the yeast still functioned fine. Wether it was optimal or not is another story.
The only thing I can come up with on the argument against tank water is that there is bacteria in the water that could get a foothold and out compete the yeast for food and give you different results.

I tried the baking soda on a bottle that happened to not be fully sealed. I got a very strong sulfur odor. Fermentation temperatures and the yeast strain were the same (same jar)


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## Beer (Feb 1, 2012)

Actuall, now that I think about it, I think some tank water may have back siphoned into the bottle. I may try the baking soda again. I'll bring home some tank water (my tank is not set up yet) to experiment with to see if that caused the sulfer production.

In brewing beer different bacterias are sometimes used to give different flavor charectoristicis. Certain yeast strains have been selected to give a specific flavor or aroma when fermented under specific conditions. Lager yeasts will produce sulfers when fermented at warmer temperatures.


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## aaronbrown (Apr 13, 2010)

what about the temp of the diy co2 during production will that affect how much and/or how long it produces. is there any difference in amount or lengh of one at room temp verses one sitting in a tank of water sitting at 80


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## Beer (Feb 1, 2012)

warmer temperatures will ferment faster, as well as produce more byproducts.

I may set up some experiments with different yeasts to see what I get the longest ferment from. I've been using bakers yeast, but I have some wine, champagne, and beer yeast as well. Typically the beer yeast is done fermenting a batch of beer in three days. The wine and champagne take a few weeks to a month, but the types and amounts of sugars available for beer and wine are a little different as well. Honey takes a couple of months, but that would be quite expensive.
I'll also have to check sugar content for the DIY method as well. The other problem for me is that I run these in smaller bottles. A 2L bottle is a bit difficult to hide where I am going to set my tank up, so being able to maximize run time will be paramount.

It's probably the citric acid in the cranberry juice that is inhibiting the yeast. It is added to juices as a preservative to inhibit bacteria growth to extend shelf life. It's also important to get a juice that doesn't have a lot of preservatives if you are going to try adding it to slow down fermentation for that same reason. Or at least start off with small amounts so you don't kill off the yeast right away.


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

I'm looking to set up a DIY CO2 system. I see where several people have listed sugar and yeast recipes, how much water are you mixing with these? Is there a good thread that I'm just missing somewhere? Thanks!


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## gnod (Mar 24, 2011)

2 cups of brown sugar, 1 tsp of yeast. that's it for me..
gotta say, it does seem like it puts out bubbles faster initially when you first start it up, as well as bubbles per second. i didn't count but i can tell by staring at my diffuser... it's a lot stronger than before.


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## kcartwright856 (Jan 16, 2012)

I'm definitely going to be trying this brown sugar thing for my next bottle experiment!

I just wrote up a post in my tank journal about some minor DIY CO2 woes that I'm trying to work through for experimentation. Hooray, science!


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## jedimasterben (Aug 21, 2011)

Just started my first DIY on two tanks, one is a planted shrimp/oto/farlowella 20 long and the other is a 10g that is holding some moss and other stuff I don't care to have in other tanks but I want to grow.

I used brown sugar for it because of this thread, ~1.5 cups per tank (it's all I had), with 1/2 tsp of yeast and 1/2 tsp of baking soda. The yeast was just whatever the generic stuff was at Walmart, it had three packets of ~1.5-2 Tbsp of yeast for $.85, so I figured what the heck, and the sugar was $2. We had some baking soda, but I bought another small box for $1.

Within minutes of adding it all to the bottle and shaking, I was getting wonderful CO2. My diffusers (one ceramic and one limewood) are both pumping away, and drop checkers are beautifully green.

Gonna make another one soon for my cichlid tank. I decided against taking that one down, too, after I realized they were breeding and it'd tear me up to split them apart, and added some driftwood and an Amazon sword. Gonna make this tank green too!


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## gowfan05 (Feb 16, 2010)

I'm going to try this today as well!!! so let me understand, 2 cups brown sugar + 1/2 "tsp" yeast? or do I include 1/2 tsp baking soda as well?


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## gnod (Mar 24, 2011)

dang, i know i can't give numbers but just based on my observation in the last 7 days... wow. so much more output in my opinion, and overall good experience. definitely going to keep using brown sugar.


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## ElBoltonero (Jan 18, 2012)

Brown sugar won't give "more" CO2...white sugar is essentially 100% fermentable. The complex sugars and melanoidins, etc. in brown sugar will not be fermentable by normal yeast. I'd definitely echo what someone said further up that the lack of fermentability is causing it to be more steady, as all the fermentable sugar isn't readily available (which is the same reason behind the jello method)...some of it is bound up in other stuff which will eventually break apart over time, etc. I would venture that brown sugar and jello are two ends to the same mean. The problem with just sugar water is that the yeast can tear through it really quickly. You have a quick burst of CO2 output then it kind of sputters from there out. And that kind of quick fermentation will raise the temperature in the bottle, which could lead to yeast also putting out sulphurs, esters, etc. Not good stuff.

And champagne yeast is definitely the way to go...it's been selectively culled to be tolerant of higher alcohol AND higher pressure. You can get a packet that will last you a while for $0.85 at a homebrew store.

I really should pull some of my brewing software back out to see what the "perfect" mix of sugar would be


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## ElBoltonero (Jan 18, 2012)

Ok, after a bit more research..."light brown" sugar is 100% fermentable. Dark brown is not. The light brown should still ferment slower, however, as there's longer sugar chains that the yeast need to make enzymes to break down, etc.

And 5 ounces (by weight...approximately 2/3 cup) of (wholly fermentable) sugar per 16 oz. water should yield a specific gravity around 1.115 or so, which will take you right about to the edge of what champagne yeast can ferment, about 15.5%

So 2/3 cup light brown sugar per 16 oz. water, plus a little baking soda couldn't hurt, plus champagne yeast would appear to be an "ideal" recipe...though it would definitely start slowing down near the end. Two bottles staggered would probably be your best bet.


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## bushynoseburton (May 18, 2011)

So why haven't I saw anyone using a gallon milk jug? I was hoping to get the mix on that but it seems that everyone is using 2L bottles. Is there a reason behind that?


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## ElBoltonero (Jan 18, 2012)

How are you going to keep it shut and sealed?

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk


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## Rich Conley (Jun 10, 2008)

ElBoltonero said:


> Brown sugar won't give "more" CO2...white sugar is essentially 100% fermentable.


 The problem in home (fishtank-diy) CO2 is almost never that the yeast run out of fermentables, its that they run out of other nutrients, or they get to too high of an alchohol level. 


Brown sugar is probably providing a lot of the same things a yeast nutrient would.


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## ElBoltonero (Jan 18, 2012)

That's also entirely possible. Regular sugar water isn't good for yeast at all. I'd still recommend adding yeast nutrients to any batch...they're cheap enough and you use just a pinch each time. Brown sugar may provide some extra "stuff" that the yeast need but certainly not all of it. That will allow yeast to build thicker cell walls and survive higher alcohol percentages. The closest parallel is micros...you don't NEED them but plants sure do better with them.


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## kwheeler91 (May 26, 2009)

Anyone have complete data on their set up? Ex. recipe/container, temp, yeast type, bps, tank size would be a plus, how many bottles. Just more info than bps or temp or recipe for each individual set up, knowing only that you had 5 bps or the drop checker was green or works great! leaves a lot of variables unanswered. Not trying to sound rude or anything i just think it would help myself and others A LOT if someone could report more complete info


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## jedimasterben (Aug 21, 2011)

kwheeler91 said:


> Anyone have complete data on their set up? Ex. recipe/container, temp, yeast type, bps, tank size would be a plus, how many bottles. Just more info than bps or temp or recipe for each individual set up, knowing only that you had 5 bps or the drop checker was green or works great! leaves a lot of variables unanswered. Not trying to sound rude or anything i just think it would help myself and others A LOT if someone could report more complete info


I have a simple 2L bottle I have the mix in, which goes via airline tube into a smaller bottle to make sure no liquid gets into my tank, and then out through another tube in that smaller bottle into my tank from there. I wish I had pics, I will snap some tonight if I can remember to.

My recipe is:
2 cups brown sugar
1 teaspoon baking soda
1/2 teaspoon yeast

I get the cheapest active yeast that Walmart has.

This is on a 20g long, drop checker stays green for about three to four weeks, and it would have significantly more CO2 in the water if my diffuser would diffuse instead of just blobbing bubbles out. I think it spits out two bubbles per second maybe? Idk for sure, I don't care about that sort of thing. So long as the drop checker is green you should be fine.


I will be moving from the 20 long (30x12x12) to a 26g bowfront (24x15x21) and I expect the drop checker to stay green in that tank, as well.

Also, my water is RO, but I have some slate in the tank to raise kH, kH is 15.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Here is a LINK to my DIY thread. It will have the containers and recipe and such. Hope that helps answer your question(s). If not, feel free to ask.


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## kwheeler91 (May 26, 2009)

Jedi, what temp are you bottles approx? I know that has a lot to do with how much I makes. Yesterday I put the bottles under my stand on the side with the emersed setup, the lights heat the space up quite a bit so theoretically it will increase co2 production during the day and slow it at night. i cant seem to get above 1 bps with twp bottles even so if temp doesnt help I will try the brown sugar and champagne yeast.


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## jedimasterben (Aug 21, 2011)

That room I try to keep around 74-78. Temp fluctuates depending on how many computers are on in the room, and how many people are present. None of my tanks have heaters or chillers.

Are you using hot water or warm water? I see some places say hot water, this will destroy the yeast. Only use warm water. My mixes start producing CO2 5-10 minutes after making them.

I usually mix the brown sugar and baking soda separately in the 2L bottle, filling up about halfway with water, and shaking the bajeezus out of it til the sugar is completely dissolved. I then add the yeast and the rest of the water and shake some more bajeezuses out of it, then put my cap with the tube on it and it's ready to go.


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## kwheeler91 (May 26, 2009)

I use warm water I even drop a couple drops of prime in it. My water is hard so I dont worry about baking soda. Making it work isnt the problem just want more co2 without more bottles. More than two would be into PITA territory. I will try brown sugar, gonna wait a little while til one of my bottles starts puttering out so I dont waste whats already made. Its been kind of cool here though lately so that vould be whats holding it back as well.


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## kcartwright856 (Jan 16, 2012)

How old/new is your yeast? Also, how are you activating it? I've found that this has made a big difference for me!

I get a bowl with some pretty warm water, add a spoonful of sugar, and then however much yeast I need. Then, I whisk it all together with a fork as if I were beating eggs for an omelet. This gives the yeast lots of oxygen, which it needs to start activating.

I whisk, then I let it sit for a minute. Whisk, and sit. I keep doing this for 5-10 minutes until there is a nice head of foam over the mixture. I hold the bowl to my ear to make sure there is lots of fizzing going on, and that's when I add it to whatever mixture I'm using. Properly activating the yeast plays a big role.

Is there any particular reason why you're using Prime with the yeast? I wonder if that has something to do with it. I can't see a reason to use it.

Also, trying the baking soda can't hurt.

I also use more yeast than most people. Anywhere from one to two whole teaspoons, depending on my room temperature on any given week.


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## kwheeler91 (May 26, 2009)

I put the yeast, sugar, prime, and water in in that order. Cap it and shake the hell out of it for a couple minutes. I think it does pretty well activating. I use prime to neutralize chlorine and chloramines, but if thats not neccessary I wont put it in anymore.

There isnt a reason to use more yeast since its a microbe that quickly multiplies and I stagger my bottles so lag time isnt really issue, which would be the reason to use more yeast initially, a quicker start time at full production rates.

I also dont use heaters in my tanks. Its only around 72 in here at the moment. I did this a few years ago during the summer and it was like 80 or more in the house and co2 was pouring out of that thing. I didnt have the bubble counter hooked up at that time


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## jedimasterben (Aug 21, 2011)

Prime is unnecessary, my water is pretty chlorinated and the yeast is always fine.

Try dissolving the sugar in the water first, then add the yeast and see if that makes it any better. My water has been kinda hard lately but I still add baking soda.

I don't pre-activate my yeast, either.


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## ElBoltonero (Jan 18, 2012)

I'd be much more worried about what's in the prime than the chlorination. Chlorine/chloramine isn't really going to affect yeast.


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## kwheeler91 (May 26, 2009)

I mean its still working, I don't know that it hurt, but I will also try no prime a well as brown sugar


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## sandpro (Apr 26, 2012)

Does anyone use check valves in their DIY setups?


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## jedimasterben (Aug 21, 2011)

I don't. The CO2 will destroy a plastic one, brass ones are stupidly expensive, and it will clog over time if you don't have a "catch" bottle.


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## Soujirou (Jun 16, 2008)

Yes I have a single plastic one and I have been using it for 3 years now at least. It's working fine as far as I can tell. I'm unsure how CO2 would degrade plastic, but mine is out of the sunlight so it's protected from UV degradation at least.


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## kwheeler91 (May 26, 2009)

I use a plastic valve, no problems... Not sure why co2 would wreck it... I use the check valve between the co2 bottles and bubble counter/catch bottle to avoid siphoning from either the tank or the BC bottle. No issues with clogging thus far


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