# Help me stock a single species "iwagumi" tank with schooling fish



## ThatGuyWithTheFish (Apr 29, 2012)

What pH and KH?


----------



## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

ThatGuyWithTheFish said:


> What pH and KH?


pH is 7.6 (or more) out the tap, 6.4 with CO2
KH is 6-7 degrees

Not sure how accurate it is because my test kits are old.


----------



## ThatGuyWithTheFish (Apr 29, 2012)

You probably wouldn't want rummynose or cardinals since they prefer more acidic, soft water. Harlequin rasboras would be the next logical choice.


----------



## STS_1OO (Nov 28, 2012)

Harlequins for the win. Their cousins, the espei are smaller and may fit the iwagumi's scale better.


----------



## LB79 (Nov 18, 2011)

GOld tetras, ruby tetras, ember tetras, pygmy cories, emerald rasboras, harlequin rasboras, narrow-wedge rasboras, lamb-chop rasboras, chili rasboras... the list is endless.


----------



## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

ThatGuyWithTheFish said:


> You probably wouldn't want rummynose or cardinals since they prefer more acidic, soft water. Harlequin rasboras would be the next logical choice.


I have done Harlequin rasboras and though Orange is not my favorite color, I am interested in trying them again. 



LB79 said:


> GOld tetras, ruby tetras, ember tetras, pygmy cories, emerald rasboras, harlequin rasboras, narrow-wedge rasboras, lamb-chop rasboras, chili rasboras... the list is endless.


It's odd how little Rasbora's are local to me (within reason, not like 45+ min). Chili Rasboras are interesting to me but I don't know how easy they are to find. I want to move very slowly on this tank with stocking as that is my biggest mistake I tend to make, the trade off of cost/driving compared to how many fish. I always mistakenly try to add too much at once.




STS_1OO said:


> Harlequins for the win. Their cousins, the espei are smaller and may fit the iwagumi's scale better.


Even though I don't like orange, this was a strong consideration due to size/behavior. I haven't done them before but they seem very similar to Harlequin rasboras, just smaller. Smaller is better for me for sure.



So are Cardinals/Rummynose totally out of the equation with my water parameters? I know my water is hard, even if my test kit isn't accurate. The rocks have made it harder in the past but not by much.


----------



## kwheeler91 (May 26, 2009)

Celestial pearl danios are always great for a smaller tank, they also take well to water thats a little bit alkaline and with cooler temps. If you wanted to go the really small route boraras would be good too. Invertebrates by msjinkzd here in the forum sponsors has cpds and is awaiting a shipment of borara species as we speak. 

Now how about some pics?


----------



## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

kwheeler91 said:


> Celestial pearl danios are always great for a smaller tank, they also take well to water thats a little bit alkaline and with cooler temps. If you wanted to go the really small route boraras would be good too. Invertebrates by msjinkzd here in the forum sponsors has cpds and is awaiting a shipment of borara species as we speak.
> 
> Now how about some pics?


I like the way CPD's look but I have heard they love to hide and are a bit "skittish". I would be concerned about them trying to hide with no place to hide, especially since the tank is in my living room. It is a fish I feel in love with but once others started sharing their experiences, it wasn't for me. I am not saying it wouldn't work, I just don't know that it's what I want. The closest place to buy them is pretty far away as well so it doesn't help with my slow stocking scheme I have.

As for pics, check it out here:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=198201


----------



## Lab_Man (Dec 7, 2012)

I love tetras, emperor tetras in particular.


----------



## STS_1OO (Nov 28, 2012)

I'd say that most threads regarding CPD ive read suggest the same thing - skittish fish.

Chili Rasboras and anything of that size don't typically swim in the smooth, continuous fashion but in disjointed spurts. I'm not a fan of these fish unless the tank is <5G.

Harlequins have been the best schoolers imo and if the Espei behave like them, they'd make a great addition to a 20L.

Rummy nose are awesome too but those have been ruled out already.


----------



## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

It sounds like Harlequins rasbora's are out the top right now, even though it wasn't my first choice. I am really trying to go to this place by my house because he always had healthy fish, is very nice, and just moved locations. I can ask him if he can get Espei's but I don't want to special order anything. I don't know why, I am weird like that.

Still open to suggestions, I also have to go over it with the GF. 

Just for fun...here is my last tank with a largish school of Harlequins rasbora's, about 3 years ago


----------



## mitchfish9 (Apr 30, 2012)

I don't think healthy specimens of cardinals or rummynose would be a problem adjusting to your water. But I like the idea of chili or espei rasboras. Or ember tetra are very underrated


----------



## LB79 (Nov 18, 2011)

As long as it's stable, you can keep most fish in there. They just may not have as long a lifespan as if they were in water of Ph 4.00, KH 00.00, GH 00.00.


----------



## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

I am hesitant to do Cardinals, even though they are my first choice because of my last experience. I had about the same pH, but my KH was lower and got pH swings. I haven't had this tank up long enough to know how different my water is but I am only 4-5 miles away from where I used to live. I put the Cardinals in after I stopped getting pH swings but they never did well. I would get a random death every month or two. Then half jumped. Only two survived but one would have crazy issues after water changes. It would get very bloated and it's eyes would bulge. 

I did them at my parents house, can't remember the water parameters but it was still only 5 miles away from the other tank but had very different water conditions. Still high pH but probably more around 7.2. KH was about the same, if I recall correctly. I am hesitant to say my pH is 7.6. That's just at the top of my test kit's range. I am just hesitant to accidentally euthanize my LFS's Cardinals at my expense.

I am still up in the air on this, which is fine because waiting is more important than me picking the wrong fish again.


----------



## jemminnifener (Nov 23, 2011)

talontsiawd said:


> I have done Harlequin rasboras and though Orange is not my favorite color, I am interested in trying them again.


Interesting that you say that. I have some harlequin rasboras and their color to me is more pink/salmon/red with hint of gold as opposed to orange. I think the espei's are more orange.


----------



## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

jemminnifener said:


> Interesting that you say that. I have some harlequin rasboras and their color to me is more pink/salmon/red with hint of gold as opposed to orange. I think the espei's are more orange.


If you look at post 12, that's an accurate picture in terms of color of what I had my last try. They were sold to me as Harlequin rasboras. Maybe they were sold under the wrong name. 

They also didn't school, they were more shoaling fish. However, I had a cycled tank so I got a bunch at once. I noticed cardinals do the same, they school in small numbers but may break into 2 schools. Once the 2 schools exist, some can't decide where to go, making it look like they are shoaling fish, especially when you add more. You can see that behavior in the same picture, they all kind of went where they wanted without paying a lot of attention to each other.


----------



## jemminnifener (Nov 23, 2011)

talontsiawd said:


> If you look at post 12, that's an accurate picture in terms of color of what I had my last try. They were sold to me as Harlequin rasboras. Maybe they were sold under the wrong name.
> 
> They also didn't school, they were more shoaling fish. However, I had a cycled tank so I got a bunch at once. I noticed cardinals do the same, they school in small numbers but may break into 2 schools. Once the 2 schools exist, some can't decide where to go, making it look like they are shoaling fish, especially when you add more. You can see that behavior in the same picture, they all kind of went where they wanted without paying a lot of attention to each other.


Hm hm I did see that picture and I do see how they look orange and how they're shoaling. My rasboras shoal too... When I get home, I'll see if I can find a picture of mine that shows the color. I'm no photographer so this may never happen.

Btw, your tanks are beautiful! Both the rasbora tank and your 13 stones tank. I don't know how important schooling behavior vs shoaling behavior is to you. It seems like the best schooling fish are ember tetra & rummynose tetra. Based on your scape, I immediately think you would want fish that will swim in the upper-to-middle levels of your tank. (This is assuming you will stick with keeping the hardscape the focal point with low, carpet plants.) I think rasboras fit that bill but I can see how you want to try a different rasbora species. 

I think CPDs tend to stick to the lower-to-middle levels of tanks, so I would not recommend that. Most tetras do too... I get the impression most iwagumi tanks have rasboras or tetras though. How about rainbowfish? Rainbowfish tend to be in the upper levels and seem to fit the bill in terms of pH. Maybe threadfin rainbowfish? I found this video online... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJdoAOLAtc8 They stocked it like a store would. I would get less, but they do seem to stick to that upper-middle water level. Maybe pseudomugil furcata? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MA1iirBB1dM They seem to be all over the place and maybe more lively than you're looking for. Your scape reminds me of a minnow habitat. Maybe Tanichthys micagemmae?


----------



## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Yeah, most iwagumi or iwagumi inspired tanks (I don't consider my tank iwagumi but it is heavily based of the style) have Tetra's or Rasbora's. Schooling behavior is important in this style of tank as you normally use a single species and the fish are really out in the open as their isn't much hiding going on. That is why Rummynose was at the top of my list but Cardinals can school well and their appearance put them in the running. 

I have been interested in threadfin rainbowfish. They are a bit less active but are attractive. The only place I know that carries them is about an hour away from me at this point. I go there when I am in the area but I keep moving further away from them, not closer.

I will have to check out ember tetra's as I haven't really seen them in person. Maybe someone carries them and I just never saw them. 

But yeah, you are correct on the types of fish/behavior that is desirable for this type of tank. It's much more about them being harmonious with the layout than just being attractive or cool to look at. Otherwise I would just do some cool looking guppies as I really actually love guppies, you can find amazing looking ones, and I have yet to have guppies that I didn't like their behavior. They would just distract me from the scape.

Thanks for the compliments btw. I have had some tanks I am really proud of over the years but the last few years have made it hard for me to keep something looking good for long periods of time. Hopefully that changes as I finally live at one place 100% of the time, not 2 places for unknown times (long story).


----------



## ZLogic (Aug 7, 2011)

A dozen ember tetras or chili raspboras. I'm shooting for 20 embers in a 40B. I love the look of tiny fish against a large piece of wood or a very broad leaved plant.


----------



## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

So....featherfin rainbow fish won out. It was just a thing about what I could get locally and easily. 


I really hope I didn't jump the gun on this. I actually was just trying to buy a master test kit, or a ammonia and nitrite test kit but they didn't have one. I could have gone home and got some water to test but I was being arrogant. My substrate has been used for about 3-4 years, I did keep it really wet when I moved it, my filter had water in it but that likely won't help as it was like a week. I hope I didn't jump the gun, crossing my fingers. Running my UV for the first few days at least.


----------

