# Start of a 40 breeder



## 00nothing (Apr 1, 2010)

Well after some thought and planning I have nixed my 50 gallon plans i have had a 40 gallon breeder laying around for quite some that i had planed to make a reef tank out of but figured why spend money I dont have when i had a perfectly good glass box sitting here.

Filtration
Rena XP4 picking up used from a friend at a price that is way to low to ignore

Lighting
lighting is going to be handled by 3 Normal Output t5;s
the 2 rear will be on one ballasts and the front one will be an another the bulbs will be 10k, 6700k, and one of those pink ones forgive my ignorance never used them in reefs not sure of proper name

Substrate
I was planning on doing demineralized soil but instead am going to do 2-3 bags of eco-complete already had one bag from a failed tank
the substarate will eventually climb upwards into the hill at the back but the hill will not streth to the side of the tank ti will be 3 sided

Plants
I love the look of iwagumi setups but the wife loves the forest look so we I am hoping to end up with something in between minimalists but full if u know what i mean the tank will be viewed from 3 sides so i am hoping to avoid any plants along the back wall so that i can see straight down the back of the tankas well as the front when enjoying it from the side

If anyone can reccomend some simple ground cover and some moss for the tree that would be great

Stock ( Some advice this dept would be greatly appreciated)
2-3 angels
10-15 tetras
german ram pair
octo's
corys
cherry shrimp

Well thats it for now hope everyone likes where am starting with the scaping. The tank is jsut sitting on a table for now while i decide wether to build or buy a stand so ignore that. Heres the pics


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## hurley0816 (Sep 18, 2005)

love it!


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## SearunSimpson (Jun 5, 2007)

I really like that piece of DW, but with the way it reaches, I feel it's too centered and should be moved into the back right corner, 'reaching' out on a slight angle towards the front left.


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## 00nothing (Apr 1, 2010)

u mean more like this ?


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## hurley0816 (Sep 18, 2005)

still love it! but i think you should seperate the two rocks on the left by about 4-5 inches and bring one a lil forward.


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## heydude819 (Mar 17, 2009)

where did you get that dead tree? it looks amazing!


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## knm<>< (Mar 18, 2010)

You really ought to get a proper stand for that tank. That looks like a walmart special end table, no disrespect, just know it's not meant to hold the weight of a fully filled/decorated 40g tank. I'd hate to see something bad happen to your setup.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Personally, i liked the wood in the center more. I thought it was perfect.

Nice start!


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## heydude819 (Mar 17, 2009)

lol stop knocking on his wood (no pun intended). He did say "The tank is jsut sitting on a table for now while i decide wether to build or buy a stand so ignore that"


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

> Stock ( Some advice this dept would be greatly appreciated)
> 2-3 angels
> 10-15 tetras
> german ram pair
> ...


I wouldn't put cherry shrimp with those fish, they will definitely be food for the other fish. I also wouldn't put more than two angelfish in a 40g.


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

AzFishKid said:


> I wouldn't put cherry shrimp with those fish, they will definitely be food for the other fish. I also wouldn't put more than two angelfish in a 40g.


+1:thumbsup:

I actually like the wood on the right side LOL.


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## Dan the Man (Sep 8, 2009)

Hey man, way to use what you have and exhibit some financial self control! If your wife is anything like mine then I'll bet she had something to do with it.  Are you planning on running co2 or sticking with a lowlight set up? Your going to be pushing about 63 watts of t5 so just on the higher end of a "low light" set up for a 40g breeder. CO2 would really help your plants reach their peak. 

One other thing, just curious, was your original intention to get a 50g dimensions: 36" x 18" x 18"? cause if so I was facing the same dilema and chose to go with the 50g since I didn't have a 40g. Anyway, scape looks good....subscribed!


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## wantsome (Sep 3, 2006)

No offence but that tank has a high probobility of breaking or at the very least springing a leak on that stand. It's not fully supported and your asking for trouble.

Other then that it looks great!


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## edlab03 (May 19, 2009)

wantsome said:


> No offence but that tank has a high probobility of breaking or at the very least springing a leak on that stand. It's not fully supported and your asking for trouble.


No offense but you should have read through his whole post before making a comment like this. :icon_roll


Back on topic, I think the centered island look well, looks better.

I personally would not go with the angels. I have a breeding pair right now in 55 and they are downright nasty to my school of rummynoses when they spawn. The angels are beautiful and all but if I had to do it over again I would omit them and go with something else. The RCS would become expensive snacks and the otos may fall victims to angels as well.


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## TeamTeal (Mar 31, 2010)

i like the wood in the center.
maybe you can make a ring of rocks around it?


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## born2lovefish (Dec 29, 2006)

Looking good! 40 breeder is one of my favorite tank sizes.


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## 00nothing (Apr 1, 2010)

knm<>< said:


> You really ought to get a proper stand for that tank. That looks like a walmart special end table, no disrespect, just know it's not meant to hold the weight of a fully filled/decorated 40g tank. I'd hate to see something bad happen to your setup.





wantsome said:


> No offence but that tank has a high probobility of breaking or at the very least springing a leak on that stand. It's not fully supported and your asking for trouble.
> 
> Other then that it looks great!


I am thinking that I might hang the tank from the cieling using clothesline and drywall anchors

http://www.renovation-headquarters.com/drywall-anchors.htm
what do u guys think are the best ones to use

If that wont work i got lots of shoeboxes at work that i can stack up to make a stand
:hihi: just teasing guys but please do read whoel threads

Thanks to the guys who were paying attention the stand design I am actually going with is real nice chunky build with 4x4 legs and 2x4 runners the idea is actually being borrowed from a member on here

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/9955-my-diy-aquarium-stand-pic.html

More Plant and Substrate ?'s

I am really wanting to the keep the plants really simple I have read some mixed opinions on wether or not HC can be grown in a low tech tank with any real success and get a nice carpet from it anyone have any thoughts

If not was thinking dwarf hairgrass for ground cover and java on the tree 

any thoughts ?

and as far as the sub goes if i keep it real simple is there any reason for me to add another 2-3 bags of eco- complete or would simple gravel be good enough mixed with the existing bag of ECO I will likely not run CO2 and if i do it defintly be a simple diy or yeast setup not pressurized unless i can find a cheap paintball tank setup i work at a paintball field so getting the co2 isnt a problem

Thanks a lot to all giving advice it is truly appreciated


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## 00nothing (Apr 1, 2010)

Dan the Man said:


> Hey man, way to use what you have and exhibit some financial self control! If your wife is anything like mine then I'll bet she had something to do with it.  Are you planning on running co2 or sticking with a lowlight set up? Your going to be pushing about 63 watts of t5 so just on the higher end of a "low light" set up for a 40g breeder. CO2 would really help your plants reach their peak.
> 
> One other thing, just curious, was your original intention to get a 50g dimensions: 36" x 18" x 18"? cause if so I was facing the same dilema and chose to go with the 50g since I didn't have a 40g. Anyway, scape looks good....subscribed!


Self control is for ******* lol ya my wife has a quiet voice carries a big stick and hides the bank card

still on the fence about co2 really dont want to get into dosing ferts all the time and headaches if that happens i am going back to plastic plants lol

ya wanted the 18 tall for a wee bit of extra height but when i had a 40 already it was jsut real hard to justify spending the money


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

You can try the HC and/or hairgrass but I think both of them do better on CO2-injected tanks.

Lilaeopsis mauritiana or E. tenellus 'narrow' or 'micro' should carpet for sure in your setup if you want to check out those.

I personally don't like the big chunk of rock compared against the branchy DW piece- but once the plants are in softening the lines it might work better.


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## demosthenes (Aug 23, 2008)

AzFishKid said:


> Personally, i liked the wood in the center more. I thought it was perfect.
> 
> Nice start!


i agree. you might want to offset it a /tiny/ bit though for a less man-made artificial quality.


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## Dan the Man (Sep 8, 2009)

As far as a foreground in your set up...seeing as you have 63 watts of t5, glosso may be possible to carpet well. I have seen non-co2 setups create good carpets of glosso.


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## 00nothing (Apr 1, 2010)

I know it sounds kinda lazy of me but i am seriously ignorant when it comes to common plant terms a link to the plant profile or the full name will def help people like me as well as any other new planted people who might read this thread, I am going to try and find the profiles now 

thanks a lot for the help and advice


adding links
glosso
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/84-Glosso_Glossostigma_elatinoides.html

e. tenellus
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myplants/63-Pygmy_Chain_Sword_Echinodorus_tenellus.html

and no luck with Lilaeopsis mauritiana could u possibly help me out with link lauralee

I am noticing al those seem to be fairly "loose" is there something that might form a thicker mat


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## Kamivy (Jan 3, 2010)

Hard to get thick lush carpets without Co2 and high light. You might have to settle for "loose"


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I've got L. mauritiana in my 29gal, and 4 different varieties of E. tenellus in my 90gal, also have some E. tenellus 'red' in my 46gal. Links are in my signature. :wink:


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## anastasisariel (Oct 4, 2009)

I dunno, shoeboxes or hanging tank.. I think you better go with an industrial washing machine. Just be sure to get real timid fish and always leave it on. ::ictures of floating cardinals enters mind:::::


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## 00nothing (Apr 1, 2010)

anastasisariel said:


> I dunno, shoeboxes or hanging tank.. I think you better go with an industrial washing machine. Just be sure to get real timid fish and always leave it on. ::ictures of floating cardinals enters mind:::::


LOL i just pictured a front loading machine full of tetras


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## 00nothing (Apr 1, 2010)

I have seen some crazy java moss tanks just crammed full of the stuff does java makea good dense carpet ? Is it hard to keep trimmed


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## anastasisariel (Oct 4, 2009)

00nothing said:


> LOL i just pictured a front loading machine full of tetras


ROFL, I was totally going to specify-front loading machine- but didn't know what to call it. haha

Don't know much about using java moss as a carpet. In a lower light tank I know you could and I guess in a higher light tank too, but I've read Java moss is darker in a high light tank and might not look to swell. I have pretty high light in my tank and the java is so dark and dull looking. I doubt it would be hard to keep trimmed because its a slow grower.. another reason not to have it as a carpet in a higher light tank unless its shaded...probably would get algae ridden fast. Sorry I can't remember on how much light you are using.


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## 00nothing (Apr 1, 2010)

anastasisariel said:


> Sorry I can't remember on how much light you are using.


1.575 watts per gallon but I will have the ability to run one bulb on a shorter cycle or not at all if i so choose so i can drop it to 1 watt per gallon

I have also been thinking about using an actinic to give me a nice blue i know its not benificial to plants but its still has light output so not sure how that is judged in the grand scheme of things


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## h2oplant (Mar 2, 2009)

Center or side it all looks good with that nice stump. Look at it like this do you want a tank that has a sloping effect where it is heavier (taller) on one side and slopes down to lower plants and the rocks. Or you have it in center with lower plants around it making the wood more of the center piece. My 2 cents


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## 00nothing (Apr 1, 2010)

Finally a day off and some money to get some things done














































Progress makes my back hurt but damn it feels good to get something done

Also picked this up dirty cheap have it running on a 20 gallon just to get some water ready


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

*totally jealous of a dirt cheap XP4*

The stand looks fantastic.


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## Nate McFin (Mar 19, 2009)

Subcribed!

Looks great so far! The stand should be a little cheaper though...that one is built way to solid. :biggrin:
Starting a 40B myself, so I look forward to seeing this come together.


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## 00nothing (Apr 1, 2010)

Nate McFin said:


> Subcribed!
> 
> Looks great so far! The stand should be a little cheaper though...that one is built way to solid. :biggrin:
> Starting a 40B myself, so I look forward to seeing this come together.


Thanks Nate being subscribed to is the biggest compliment a man can receive on a forum in my books

Funny thing with the stand I had a budget of $146.89 and no that is not a random number so far I have spent $86 so coming in well below budget which is making the wife quite happy and me as well considering that I am using premium building materials. I have a can of black melamine paint along with foam brushes and rollers going to cover the stand with, that counts as a freebie so even more money saved so really dot have a lot left to get for it some 1/4 round to hide some builder imperfections as well as some hinges and some glass for front doors going with tinted glass doors for this one think they will look sharp and modern against all the big chunky wood

Oh 146.89 is the price of a 36x18 stingray stand from big als after taxes if i couldnt build something nicer for less than i was buying that utterly poor excuse for a stand


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## 00nothing (Apr 1, 2010)

lauraleellbp said:


> *totally jealous of a dirt cheap XP4*
> 
> The stand looks fantastic.


thanks for the compliment and with the money saved buying the used xp4 vs a new filter I am definitly buying myself a set of ebay lily pipe and intake


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## 00nothing (Apr 1, 2010)

Little bit of an update and this one defintly brought a smile to my face sorry for the pic quality it was taken on my phone



















For those that caught my post in the substrate thread the tank has 1/2 inch to 1.5 of pond soil capped by eco-complete


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## 00nothing (Apr 1, 2010)

Well looks like the tank will be going from low to high tech I am getting a milwaukee regulator and 10lb tank from a friend in trade for some of my excess radio control stuff

That being said should I be going to a higher light as well 3x21 watt or perhaps even more I would still like to avoid confusing fert dosing but I have been reading up on it and the pfertz system seems to be right up my alley no measuring jsut pump in x amount couple of times per week


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## jargonchipmunk (Dec 8, 2008)

holy curseword that driftwood is awesome! Could you please put that in the increase-o-size ray and make it double that size and let me have if for my upcoming 120? 

On the subject of light: Think of how much you'll need to be 'high light" and take away one bulb. Almost everyone in this hobby makes the same mistake on one tank or other. You almost never need as much light as you think. I bought a fantastic fixture for my 75gallon and ended up only using half the bulbs. If you have a T5HO setup (or can get one) two bulbs is all you'll ever need.


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## Nate McFin (Mar 19, 2009)

I can see why it brought a smile! I am glad to hear your going pressurized. This tank begs for a carpet.
I agree with Jargon as well. A 2x39 t5ho is plenty for thios tank. I went with a Catalina 3x39 but I will only end up using 2 bulbs unless I need a noon burst. (Or go Reef someday...lol)
Thanks for the update, looking forward to the next installment already.


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## 00nothing (Apr 1, 2010)

As promised










There is a slight problem with it that hopefully you guys can help me out with the low pressure gauge doesnt go back to 0 it starts at around 8 and moves freely when under pressure but wont read on the low side of things is there a way to clean them reset them or will i need a new gauge ?

Did bit of light shopping tonight didnt buy anything just a quick visit to big als and scoping 2 possibilities there and one online

option a. hagen glo 2x39 watt 159.99 doesnt include bulbs and only has a single reflector but is a very sleek looking unit

option b. aquatic life 2x39 159.99 includes bulbs and has individual reflectors but just doesnt cut it in the looks dept very bland looking 

option c. fishneedit.com 2x39 64.99 plus shipping and duty if i get dinged as it crosses the border so might end up being just as much as buying local, setup looks sharp in pictures but couldnt really find any real solid reviews on it

Would love some feedback if anyone has dealt with any of these lights


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## Darth Toro (Mar 6, 2010)

That stand is B-E-Autiful!!!! Makes me want to build one for my 50 gallon breeder thats sits on a clothes drawer now. Also that piece of driftwood looks great. I want to get something like that and grow moss on it to make it look like a giant bonsai. Where can I find pieces like that? I am subscribed as well.


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## Nate McFin (Mar 19, 2009)

I read some good reviews of fishneedit on here. As far as the others go I can't really say. I do know for the price the 3x39 (yes you will only use 2) Catalina with moonlights and flip legs only ran be 180 shipped. GReat lights with very good reflectors.
Not sure about the regiiulator...might be worth posting in the equipment section.


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## 00nothing (Apr 1, 2010)

Darth Toro said:


> That stand is B-E-Autiful!!!! Makes me want to build one for my 50 gallon breeder thats sits on a clothes drawer now. Also that piece of driftwood looks great. I want to get something like that and grow moss on it to make it look like a giant bonsai. Where can I find pieces like that? I am subscribed as well.


Thanks for the compliment I cant wait to get the glass doors in to finish it off. The driftwood is actually 2 pieces joined together bought at big als not even a clue as to what type of wood it is and moss is exactly what I am thinking as well


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## 00nothing (Apr 1, 2010)

Nate McFin said:


> I read some good reviews of fishneedit on here. As far as the others go I can't really say. I do know for the price the 3x39 (yes you will only use 2) Catalina with moonlights and flip legs only ran be 180 shipped. GReat lights with very good reflectors.
> Not sure about the regiiulator...might be worth posting in the equipment section.


 
Must have missed your post thanks again nate will post over there later not in a huge rush


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Option D- Solar T5HOs from www.catalinaaquarium.com roud:


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## Digital (Apr 4, 2008)

T5 HO's are defintely bright, brighter than my PC's thats a definite. Great 40gallon, can't wait to see more!


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## 00nothing (Apr 1, 2010)

Well I am long overdue for an update the tank is doing well I am experimenting a little bit with a plant that is called dwarf baby's tears but its not HC the plant is Soleirolia soleirolii and according to Wikipedia is able to grow submersed, this was also tested by someone on another forum but no posting on the outcome. I figured why not give it a try. 

The cycle finished rather quickly so I started adding fish and have been keeping a close eye on my levels but nitrates have been staying virtually undetectable.

Put a glass co2 diffuser in love the way it looks and the bubbles spiraling up through it is nearly hypnotic. Grabbed a rena smart heater not my first choice but inline was a little bit more than what i wanted to spend right now. Lighting was a bit of a pain at first i did a 3x39watt retro that i got to cheap to pass up 4 bulbs ballasts and endcaps for $50 but I just didn't like the looks so i went and bought the current usa nova extreme I ended up going with the saltwater edition as it was 40 cheaper than the fresh from big als and tbh i kinda like the blue look it gives so used to keeping reefs its what i am accustomed to.

Well I guess that its for now will let the pictures speak for themselves


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## 00nothing (Apr 1, 2010)

Guess I should put a stock list up if not for anyone who asks but for myself as well so i can look back at this for reference

X2 blind cave tetra (possible leaving wife hates them)
x2 Columbian tetra
x9 zebra danio (possibly leaving a little more active than I wanted)
x2 marble angel (leavnig to go to daughters tank not fairing so well in this one way to small for the gang thats in there getting picked on)
x2 blue ram
x2 Apistogramma cacatuoides
x30 cherry shrimp (slowly getting eaten by the rams but thats okay i have a small tank for breeding that has another 100 or so in it)

Fish I am considering

Rummynose tetras
Cardinal Tetras
Angel Pair still want these but want the classic brown and black angel nothing fancy
Cories I know nothing about these fish but i love the way they look

Also some sort of algae eaters I have 5 albino bristlenose that came as part of my cherry shrimp purchase but they are really small and plecos around plants makes me a bit wary. would it be safe ? I know I will get some ottos but any other suggestions ?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I'm not sure about the Colombian tetras. They're a fish that can get nippy especially when not kept in a large enough school, but your tank is on the small side for a large school of them, especially considering your other stocking plans...

And if/once your angels reach maturity and pair off a 40gal isn't going to be big enough for more than a single pair. So just something to keep in mind and have a Plan B down the road.

I'd wait to get either Cories or Plecos until after your carpeting plants have had plenty of time to root and become very well established. Otherwise the catfish are very likely to pull them up as they go scavenging around the tank.

A nice school of Cardinals or Rummynosed tetras would be a good choice for the tank.


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## Dan the Man (Sep 8, 2009)

Any update?


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## Shawnts106 (Sep 25, 2005)

really nice !!!
Ima' snatch yo' driftwood up! 

keep up the good work!


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## JonahHart (Dec 8, 2010)

Skip the angels in that tank. The 40 breeders never seem tall enough to do adults justice. 

Typically you want to keep tetras in larger groups than dos, like lauraleellbp stated. It always looks far more pleasing if you have maybe 2 substantial groups of schooling fish, instead of many smaller groups of different types. Things will look more organized.

If you don't want your shrimps gobbled up get a handful of amano shrimp, incredible.

Make sure your bulbs are of the correct spectrum too. I noticed you said something about getting the saltwater light setup for cheaper?


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## 00nothing (Apr 1, 2010)

It has been a while since i started this thread shortly after getting the tank setup i took a promotion at work and by the time i get home i mostly read instead of posting there were some changes after my last post. I swapped out all the substrate moved the scape filled it with fish, the tank has been doing great but it is time for a change check out this link to see the new plans and thanks for following along

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/g...sion/127859-upgrading-advice.html#post1286317


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