# Rapid Led Freshwater Pucks Kits



## islanddave1 (Jul 5, 2013)

Hello

Has anyone either experience or an opinion on these units.Dual Aurora Puck Kit (Dimmable) - Rapid LED max watts would be about 70 watts @100% per puck so 140 Total for the fixture.

Now they also have a freshwater puck that could be substituted in the kit
Aurora Puck - Freshwater - Rapid LED

This freshwater puck is decidedly blue, but certainly not as blue as say a Radion freshwater.

jeffkrol ........I'm seeking your informed opinion! :smile2:

Thanks


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

islanddave1 said:


> Hello
> 
> Has anyone either experience or an opinion on these units.Dual Aurora Puck Kit (Dimmable) - Rapid LED max watts would be about 70 watts @100% per puck so 140 Total for the fixture.
> 
> ...


no, reef centric still 10V analog or 10v PWM dimming so stuck w/ the higher end controllers.. Manual dimming is easier though.. 
See this for a preferred chip.. 
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/20-diy/962569-diy-lumia-build.html

Oh and neutral whites are usually 4000k-ish. The kit above is bluer overall than the Radion w/ cool whites blue ect..
Even the red channel has blue..


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## islanddave1 (Jul 5, 2013)

jeffkrol said:


> no, reef centric still 10V analog or 10v PWM dimming so stuck w/ the higher end controllers.. Manual dimming is easier though..
> See this for a preferred chip..
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/20-diy/962569-diy-lumia-build.html
> 
> ...


Yes I suppose.you are correct. No changes can be made to this puck. Yeah I wasn't happy about the neutral white choice and the uv emitters seem to be a waste of.space and energy here. I followed the lumina link but I really have no idea what I'm reading ......I further looked into lumina on the Web and find their website hard to navigate and get information 

What I would really love is a link to someone's build sheet fora fixture that works...for our planted tanks. Something that says buy this, then this, and get two of those.....put this wire here and that wire there. Some resource with a p arts list and instructions so someone like me can build.it.

I appreciate your opinion jeffkrol thank you!
How do you think this rapid led.freshwater.spectrum would look? No doubt it would grow plants but I think it was.meant just to be a generic freshwater spectrum maybe optimized for showcasing fish rather than plants


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

islanddave1 said:


> Yes I suppose.you are correct. No changes can be made to this puck. Yeah I wasn't happy about the neutral white choice and the uv emitters seem to be a waste of.space and energy here. I followed the lumina link but I really have no idea what I'm reading ......I further looked into lumina on the Web and find their website hard to navigate and get information
> 
> What I would really love is a link to someone's build sheet fora fixture that works...for our planted tanks. Something that says buy this, then this, and get two of those.....put this wire here and that wire there. Some resource with a p arts list and instructions so someone like me can build.it.
> 
> ...


It looks like this:









now to be fair, it is adjustable..

Fun spectrum tool:
http://spectra.1023world.net/


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## islanddave1 (Jul 5, 2013)

jeffkrol said:


> It looks like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yikes! Yup that's blue alright no doubt about it...actually not so much blue as it is lacking in other specta....humour my ignorance here what would the result of running this.spectrum on a planted tank be? 


Thanks


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

islanddave1 said:


> Yikes! Yup that's blue alright no doubt about it...actually not so much blue as it is lacking in other specta....humour my ignorance here what would the result of running this.spectrum on a planted tank be?
> 
> 
> Thanks


Plants would grow fine, Neons would be bright..
Likely some plants would have short internodes, finely divided leaves and probably a bit more red than a richer red tank..
Plants adapt their systems to compensate for spectrum..
It is more a "visual issue" ..



jeffkrol said:


> Plants would grow fine, Neons would be bright..
> Likely some plants would have short internodes, finely divided leaves and probably a bit more red than a richer red tank..
> Plants adapt their systems to compensate for spectrum..
> It is more a "visual issue" ..


Lets compare that to a guesstimation of the Lumina FW chip:
The average K value is 6500. (The other one was "off the charts" so to speak and CRI was non-existent).
The CRI of the lumina is also 97 










Adding 5 diodes to the lumina 410,420,430 and [email protected] K value goes up to 8800k CRI drops..










Radion x15 guessitmate CRI of like 28  K off the charts):









note: You would have to equalize diode count/power to compare PAR. This is just an estimate of hitting photosynthetic peaks, K and CRI


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## islanddave1 (Jul 5, 2013)

Ok so basically I. Can use the spectral.tool to.design my own led ratio. If I come up.with a ratio that is close to a already "good" known spectrum for planted tanks then I'm good to go? I notice that they give some examples of spectrums in the tool emulate one that between 6500k and say 8000k with some degree of red leds?

Yup.my understanding is this simple.What is the "score" an indication of?
Thanks

Ok I just discovered groupbuy.com. This realization makes me wonder why I would.consider a mass produced fixture that isn't really serving my needs. I also found some wonderful how to resources there too! I always come to the party too late!😊


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

islanddave1 said:


> Ok so basically I. Can use the spectral.tool to.design my own led ratio. If I come up.with a ratio that is close to a already "good" known spectrum for planted tanks then I'm good to go? I notice that they give some examples of spectrums in the tool emulate one that between 6500k and say 8000k with some degree of red leds?
> 
> Yup.my understanding is this simple.What is the "score" an indication of?
> Thanks


Score is an indication of how many plant pigments are "satisfied" by the light. To be honest, the fluorescent proteins are more reef centric. I still consider violets optional but since many colored pigments are produced in response to "damaging light" (high energy or quantity) they may along w/ UV A promote pigment formation. Not really my concern though. Personal choice.




islanddave1 said:


> This realization makes me wonder why I would.consider a mass produced fixture that isn't really serving my needs.


Welcome to the club..


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## kilauea91 (Sep 19, 2013)

You can choose "FRESH" option instead of "REEF" in the spectrum graph advisor in the SETUP menu on top right corner, Carotene instead of fluorescent protein is factored in the score.
An example I made for Radion XR15FW based on the information I could get.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Oops, embarrassing as well.
Thanks...


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## islanddave1 (Jul 5, 2013)

forgive my ignorance but the spectral profile to the right such as 10K daylight 8K daylight.......how can I access what led combos were used to create them?


thanks


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## kilauea91 (Sep 19, 2013)

Jeffkrol, sorry it was never my intention to make you feel that way. Please don't be. It's such a great tool and I have been having fun with it for some time now.

islanddave1, I believe 10K 8K daylight spectrum is just preset spectrum, they are not from a combination of LEDs. Maybe one can achieve spectrum like that with LEDs but
probably need hundreds of LED chips and kW capable drivers to make them lit.


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## vraev (Apr 13, 2012)

Awesome thread. I just bought a new tank and have been considering about a new light fixture for it. I currently have the XR15FW and to be pleased about it is understating its quality. I do hate the noise of the fan, I do hate that it is such a spotlight, but God!! The plants underneath it directly LOVE it. I have never seen that quality of growth from any other LED/T5 fixture. Absolutely surgical in terms of the light spectrum IMO. I am considering about buying two more of these for a new tank, but as you can imagine, it is a tall order in terms of price. 

Has anyone bought these aurora freshwater kits? Do they work well?


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

islanddave1 said:


> forgive my ignorance but the spectral profile to the right such as 10K daylight 8K daylight.......how can I access what led combos were used to create them?
> 
> 
> thanks


those are the ones marked "sun".. 
Actual sunlight values at different locations/time


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

vraev said:


> Has anyone bought these aurora freshwater kits? Do they work well?


Pucks have the same basic output as the Radions..
the LDD version/coralux would be preferred unless you own an Apex controller.

That said, I can think of a bit better/cheaper($/W) multichips.

Fair pricing, not great pricing..

Lumina is more bang for the buck, but as noted supplementing w/ some violets is probably recommended..
Lumina vs Radion/Aroura at full.. different tone that is for sure..

Depends on if you want more realistic color or not. As mentioned neither the Radion nor Aurora will have a good CRI...but that is a human, not a plant thing..


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## skanderson (Jul 25, 2010)

I will be putting together a couple different diy emitter clusters to try them out in a month or so. I will post pics of it and parts on a thread here. the biggest problem with all of this is not getting the plants to grow but in liking the way the tank looks. everyone has a different look that they like so there is no one ideal spectrum to shoot for. it helps to look at tanks lit with different fixtures and see which ones you like. also it is hard to do that online as the pictures may not perfectly replicate what they really look like.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

skanderson said:


> I will be putting together a couple different diy emitter clusters to try them out in a month or so. I will post pics of it and parts on a thread here. the biggest problem with all of this is not getting the plants to grow but in liking the way the tank looks. everyone has a different look that they like so there is no one ideal spectrum to shoot for. it helps to look at tanks lit with different fixtures and see which ones you like. also it is hard to do that online as the pictures may not perfectly replicate what they really look like.


That will be cool.. and yes pictures rarely look like what the eye see's..
It takes post processing to match what you see/perceive and what the CMOS/CCD sees and software thinks..

Not to even mention monitor differences and calibration...

PIA.. skill....or voodoo .. take your pick..


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## Kobey (Nov 20, 2015)

Omg i spent over 2-hours playing with that synthetic spectrum website!

Lol. I'm doomed.


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## vraev (Apr 13, 2012)

jeffkrol said:


> Pucks have the same basic output as the Radions..
> the LDD version/coralux would be preferred unless you own an Apex controller.
> 
> That said, I can think of a bit better/cheaper($/W) multichips.
> ...


I prefer "efficiency" with my main fixtures. The radeon definitely looks dim IMO compared to other lights, but the plants don't see it that way. For them it is fantastic. 

Can u please give me the link for those Lumina? Can they be ordered as a puck format? Any helpful threads showing the results of using Lumina fixtures? I am currently upgrading my main terrarium and am in the market for either 2 x XB BML 48" or 2 x ecotech XR15FW + 2 or 4 of my old Finnex ray 2.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

vraev said:


> I prefer "efficiency" with my main fixtures. The radeon definitely looks dim IMO compared to other lights, but the plants don't see it that way. For them it is fantastic.
> 
> Can u please give me the link for those Lumina? Can they be ordered as a puck format? Any helpful threads showing the results of using Lumina fixtures? I am currently upgrading my main terrarium and am in the market for either 2 x XB BML 48" or 2 x ecotech XR15FW + 2 or 4 of my old Finnex ray 2.


Lumia LED - LEDGroupBuy.com

http://www.ledgroupbuy.com/cree-lumia-5-2-105w-planted-tank-led-5-channel-planted-tank-version/

There are fw builds out there but, to be honest, reefers are more prone to accepting "pucks"..

Though not "pucks" but some Luxeons are both more efficient and more color consistent (whites vs CREE whites)
http://shop.stevesleds.com/Philips-Luxeon-ES-Cyan-3-Watt-LEDs-8794102437.htm


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## jrygel (Jan 29, 2014)

I'm just starting to receive all the parts for my LED build. Got a lot of help with choosing the parts by trolling the forums here. It will be controlled with a Bluefish controller and has four separate channels: warm white, cool white, blue/cyan, and red. All Luxeon 3 W LEDs in a RapidLED premium enclosure. Currently my LEDs only go down to 450 nm, I'll see how it goes and may add violets in the future - I still have one control channel open, so that could be on an independent channel. CRI is 94 according to spectra website . . . we'll see how it goes, I'll try to document the process.

-Justin


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## vraev (Apr 13, 2012)

jeffkrol said:


> Lumia LED - LEDGroupBuy.com
> 
> CREE Lumia 5.2 105W Planted Tank LED 5 Channel - Planted Tank Version - LEDGroupBuy.com
> 
> ...


Thanks. Will check it out and see how it works out price-wise. That might indeed give me the most bang for my buck.



jrygel said:


> I'm just starting to receive all the parts for my LED build. Got a lot of help with choosing the parts by trolling the forums here. It will be controlled with a Bluefish controller and has four separate channels: warm white, cool white, blue/cyan, and red. All Luxeon 3 W LEDs in a RapidLED premium enclosure. Currently my LEDs only go down to 450 nm, I'll see how it goes and may add violets in the future - I still have one control channel open, so that could be on an independent channel. CRI is 94 according to spectra website . . . we'll see how it goes, I'll try to document the process.
> 
> -Justin


Keep us posted. That looks like an interesting spectrum.


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## kilauea91 (Sep 19, 2013)

jrygel said:


> I'm just starting to receive all the parts for my LED build. Got a lot of help with choosing the parts by trolling the forums here. It will be controlled with a Bluefish controller and has four separate channels: warm white, cool white, blue/cyan, and red. All Luxeon 3 W LEDs in a RapidLED premium enclosure. Currently my LEDs only go down to 450 nm, I'll see how it goes and may add violets in the future - I still have one control channel open, so that could be on an independent channel. CRI is 94 according to spectra website . . . we'll see how it goes, I'll try to document the process.
> 
> -Justin


Very nice :thumbsup:. I wonder how many 3W emitters are used to make the spectrum? You can add one or two Semiled purples(400-410, and 410-420nm) but the CRI will probably drop. Most likely you will not run those at full power anyway.


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## jrygel (Jan 29, 2014)

kilauea91 said:


> Very nice :thumbsup:. I wonder how many 3W emitters are used to make the spectrum? You can add one or two Semiled purples(400-410, and 410-420nm) but the CRI will probably drop. Most likely you will not run those at full power anyway.


That spectrum is made up of the following 33 emitters: 


CHANNEL 1:
(8x) Cool White (6500K) - I faked this in the spectrum tool by entering 5x 8000K and 3x 4000K.


CHANNEL 2:
(4x) Neutral White (4000K)
(4x) Warm White (2700K)


CHANNEL 3:
(4x) Warm White (2700K)
(3x) 660 nm Deep Red
(3x) 620 nm Red


CHANNEL 4:
(3x) 480 nm Cool Blue
(2x) 450 nm Royal Blue
(2x) 500 nm Cyan


The mix is partly driven by using Steve's LED drivers, so there is a need to keep each channel within their voltage capability while also keeping a balance of colors in each channel that made sense. I am using Steve's instead of Meanwells because I am planning on mounting them inside the fixture - the meanwells are a little bit taller and their cooling is convection based, so being inside the semi-sealed splash guard probably wouldn't be a great idea even if they did fit. Steve's drivers, on the other hand, cool through conduction, so I am going to bond them to the same heatsink that I am using for the LEDs; they are also a bit thinner than the Meanwells mounted on a board.


There wasn't really room for violet or UV without adding a driver, and I'm already pushing the budget as it is, although the black Friday sales helped a bit.


-Justin


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

jrygel said:


> That spectrum is made up of the following 33 emitters:
> 
> 
> CHANNEL 1:
> ...


just a few comments..

If you are using the Bluefish Mini did you verify compatibility w/ Steves? It only output 3.3V PWM .

Steves run hot if you have a ps voltage string v(f) large differential..
To run them "cool" all strings need to match and the PS adjusted to be close to that voltage..
Of course mounting it to a heatsink gives a lot of wiggle room.. 
The tech is "workhorse" stable but it does have it's drawbacks.

LDD's run cool 90% of the time btw..regardless of voltage. They get a bit less efficient at larger differentials as well.


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## jrygel (Jan 29, 2014)

Thanks for the comments. 

My four strings are all between 20.8 V and 22.4 V at listed forward voltages, and I have an adjustable PS, so the differential should be pretty minimal. Steves tech support says that the Bluefish is compatible.

More than anything I was concerned about fitting the LDD board inside the fixture. I need a clean look, and right now I will only have a single cable going to the light providing DC, all the mess will be inside.


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## islanddave1 (Jul 5, 2013)

jeffkrol said:


> Pucks have the same basic output as the Radions..
> the LDD version/coralux would be preferred unless you own an Apex controller.
> 
> That said, I can think of a bit better/cheaper($/W) multichips.
> ...


Yup me again jeffkrol!☺ what do you think the lumia 5.2 chip.would look like visually to us? Would.it tend to look yellow at 100% and not be very bright? 

Also I am getting about 8000k rating for this lumia 5.2 chip.when I use the spectral tool is this accurate? Or am I way off base?

THANK YOU


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

islanddave1 said:


> Yup me again jeffkrol!☺ what do you think the lumia 5.2 chip.would look like visually to us? Would.it tend to look yellow at 100% and not be very bright?
> 
> Also I am getting about 8000k rating for this lumia 5.2 chip.when I use the spectral tool is this accurate? Or am I way off base?
> 
> THANK YOU


Using just the whites, the base K is about 4225..
Which "may" (lets just say does) have a yellow tint to it
If you could add just the blues it actually drives the k to about 7000.
Red doesn't impact K much..

Dull and/or yellow is somewhat subjective.
You do have enough room to adj. k value and "yellowness" to whatever you want. Of course w/ a change in output.

some people see 6500k as "yellowish" Not sure why. Never looked very yellow on objects to me. In a tank w/ a lot of plants it can due to a lot of green/yellow bouncing around..

ODDLY enough I can't really find any photos from anyone who has used them..
Maybe write to LEDgroupbuy, see what they may have and also tell them your concerns..
analysis only goes so far.. 
I'm not going to stress this chip much because I still don't really like a "purple" channel in comparison to a separate red and blue channel.


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## islanddave1 (Jul 5, 2013)

jeffkrol said:


> Using just the whites, the base K is about 4225..
> Which "may" (lets just say does) have a yellow tint to it
> If you could add just the blues it actually drives the k to about 7000.
> Red doesn't impact K much..
> ...


Yeah I have asked through a couple of emails. But havent heard back. Must be a busy time of year for online vendors. 
It is beginning to seem easier to satisfy the light demands of the plants that it does of the budding aquarist!:frown2:

David


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