# AI Prime HD FreshWater



## jeffkrol

What makes you think they have a FW specific fixture?
Just curious........


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## Botia dude

jeffkrol said:


> What makes you think they have a FW specific fixture?
> Just curious........


https://www.natureaquariums.com.au/products/prime-led-light-white

PAR and spectrum data


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## Sarlindescent

The only person who has these currently, to the best of my knowledge, is Joey (KingofDIY).

Bump: I expect this to release in the next week or two. They have had some placeholders on various sites, but no details are released yet. Given that Ecotech owns them, I am hoping they shift the LEDs to incorporate more plant specific LEDs like 660 Red.


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## jeffkrol

> LEDS:
> 
> 3 x Cree XP-G2 Cool White (> 70 CRI)
> 3 x Cree XT-E Royal Blue
> 3 x Cree XP-E2 Blue
> Cree Deep Red 660nm
> Cree XP-E Green
> SemiLED 415nm
> SemiLED 400nm


Saltwater-lite.. Not really freshwater though usable.. as is any light.

This is Freshwater...PAR @ 24"..........











> Number of LED's
> 8x Cool White
> 7x Warm White
> 4x Red
> 2x Blue
> 2x Green


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## d33pVI

Marine Depot has a placeholder for them saying "Coming September 2017". I was just looking at them a few days ago and thought I saw full specs for the freshwater version but can't seem to find them again...

Preview pic shows 6 cool white, 4 warm white, 1 red, 1 blue and 1 green.


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## jeffkrol

d33pVI said:


> Marine Depot has a placeholder for them saying "Coming September 2017". I was just looking at them a few days ago and thought I saw full specs for the freshwater version but can't seem to find them again...
> 
> Preview pic shows 6 cool white, 4 warm white, 1 red, 1 blue and 1 green.


Now you're talking..


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## Sarlindescent

The images in Jeff's post are identical to the XR15 FW G4. It would be a huge loss for the EcoTech parent company if the high end and low end product had identical results.


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## HBdirtbag

Aqua lab claims to have them in stock. ( haven’t responded to my email to confirm yet)

https://aqualabaquaria.com/collecti...hwater-led-aquarium-light-aqua-illumination-1


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## jeffkrol

$200-ish........


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## HBdirtbag

Jeff, i'm trying to read the underlying messages. But as my wife will say, i'm poor at even comprehending [censored][censored][censored][censored] when it's told to me straight forward and bluntly. 

Do you have solid knowledge this is in fact coming out?





I've set up a new 75H, it's going to be my "med tech tank". Tanks is 24Hx30Wx18D. Mostly greens and slow growers that don't require a bunch of high light. This is going to be the tank I don't want to do 50% weekly water changes on. I will most likely not use ferts for a bit (ada soil) will use Co2. I've currently got an ADA Solar 1 on the tank that spreads light like a tramp does her legs and also gets too hot for my office.

Hoping this light will be a good solution.

Bump: there is also this 

Bump:

Bump:


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## jeffkrol

https://aqualabaquaria.com/collecti...hwater-led-aquarium-light-aqua-illumination-1

seems available.. Didn't finalize sale..


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## HBdirtbag

He said he doesn’t have them yet. 


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## jeffkrol

Well that stinks..
In the meantime how about checking this out....

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/10-lighting/1184033-yuji-led-aquarium-light-3.html


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## HBdirtbag

Actually just ordered from aqua lab. We’ll see when he gets it. Said should be max 2 weeks


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## Sarlindescent

Finally posted on the AI website. They have spectrum charts and whatnot up. Little low on the red side IMO but pretty good.

http://www.aquaillumination.com/lighting/prime/freshwater.html


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## jeffkrol

HUh????


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## d33pVI

Installed a pair of these last night. Loving the wifi app programming right out of the box. Pretty sure the EcoTech XR15FW are the only other FW light out there that has that w/o paying for add-ons, but they cost nearly twice as much.


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## Lingwendil

Sarlindescent said:


> Finally posted on the AI website. They have spectrum charts and whatnot up. Little low on the red side IMO but pretty good.
> 
> Prime Freshwater » AquaIllumination®


:icon_conf

Little low on red? What?


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## Sarlindescent

It's not that low and I'm sure it's a great light, I would just like a tiny bit more. Think the XR15 FW G4. 

Current
6 - Cree XP-G2 Cool White (> 70 CRI)
4 - Cree XP-G2 Warm White
1 - Cree XP-E2 Blue
1 - Cree XP-E Photo Red
1 - Cree XP-E2 Green

Preferred
5 - Cree XP-G2 Cool White (> 70 CRI)
4 - Cree XP-G2 Warm White
1 - Cree XP-E2 Blue
2 - Cree XP-E Photo Red
1 - Cree XP-E2 Green


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## jeffkrol

Sarlindescent said:


> It's not that low and I'm sure it's a great light, I would just like a tiny bit more. Think the XR15 FW G4.
> 
> Current
> 6 - Cree XP-G2 Cool White (> 70 CRI)
> 4 - Cree XP-G2 Warm White
> 1 - Cree XP-E2 Blue
> 1 - Cree XP-E Photo Red
> 1 - Cree XP-E2 Green
> 
> Preferred
> 5 - Cree XP-G2 Cool White (> 70 CRI)
> 4 - Cree XP-G2 Warm White
> 1 - Cree XP-E2 Blue
> 2 - Cree XP-E Photo Red
> 1 - Cree XP-E2 Green


Yea but at 2x the price. AI and Radion are one company now..so consider it it's weaker sibling.. 
Ahh the luxury.. Just run the blue and cool white a wee bit lower..
To be honest, not sure how many will run all channels full anyways.. 

AI:


> With a spread of 24" x 24", the AI Prime® Freshwater has a peak PAR of 86µMol at a depth of 24 inches,


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## Sarlindescent

Yeah, was just hoping that they came out with pretty much the exact same spectrum graph. I knew the XR15 would provide higher PAR (think its like 20% higher) over a greater spread (36 inches vs 24).

With this said, I may still get one for my refugium.


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## jeffkrol

8 - Cool White @ 3/4 power
7 - Warm White @ 4/7ths power
4 - Red @ 1/4 power
2 - Green @ 1/2 power
2 - Blue @ 1/2 power
=
6 - Cree XP-G2 Cool White (> 70 CRI)
4 - Cree XP-G2 Warm White
1 - Cree XP-E2 Blue
1 - Cree XP-E Photo Red
1 - Cree XP-E2 Green

w 5 channel control you certainly can match the AI w/ the Radion.. at a PAR loss of course.

6 - Cree XP-G2 Cool White (> 70 CRI) @ 1/3 power 
4 - Cree XP-G2 Warm White @ @ .57ths power (Just say 1/2)
1 - Cree XP-E2 Blue @ 1/4
1 - Cree XP-E Photo Red 
1 - Cree XP-E2 Green @ 1/4


I know somewhat obvious..

Using their PAR numbers you still have about 86 x .346 = 29.75 @ 24"............

JUSt an estimate but feel free to correct the math.. I'm getting old..


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## HBdirtbag

Got mine today. Mount isn’t here yet but looking forward to having this thing replace my Solar 1!


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## HBdirtbag

d33pVI said:


> Installed a pair of these last night. Loving the wifi app programming right out of the box. Pretty sure the EcoTech XR15FW are the only other FW light out there that has that w/o paying for add-ons, but they cost nearly twice as much.




What mount did you use. What are your tank dimensions


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## HBdirtbag

Got mine today with the clamp. Setting up now and will let you guys know results 


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## HBdirtbag

d33pVI said:


> Installed a pair of these last night. Loving the wifi app programming right out of the box. Pretty sure the EcoTech XR15FW are the only other FW light out there that has that w/o paying for add-ons, but they cost nearly twice as much.




What mount did you use?


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## HBdirtbag

New tank so ignore the mess. Very very happy with this










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## HBdirtbag

Sorry for the multiple posts, tapa talk wasn't being cooperative today

Bump: Sorry for the multiple posts, tapa talk wasn't being cooperative today


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## d33pVI

HBdirtbag said:


> What mount did you use. What are your tank dimensions


Used the 'L' brackets on two lights over a 24"x48" footprint. Tank is about 20" tall, starting with the light about 10" above the waterline.


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## Botia dude

jeffkrol said:


> 8 - Cool White @ 3/4 power
> 7 - Warm White @ 4/7ths power
> 4 - Red @ 1/4 power
> 2 - Green @ 1/2 power
> 2 - Blue @ 1/2 power
> =
> 6 - Cree XP-G2 Cool White (> 70 CRI)
> 4 - Cree XP-G2 Warm White
> 1 - Cree XP-E2 Blue
> 1 - Cree XP-E Photo Red
> 1 - Cree XP-E2 Green
> 
> w 5 channel control you certainly can match the AI w/ the Radion.. at a PAR loss of course.
> 
> 6 - Cree XP-G2 Cool White (> 70 CRI) @ 1/3 power
> 4 - Cree XP-G2 Warm White @ @ .57ths power (Just say 1/2)
> 1 - Cree XP-E2 Blue @ 1/4
> 1 - Cree XP-E Photo Red
> 1 - Cree XP-E2 Green @ 1/4
> 
> 
> I know somewhat obvious..
> 
> Using their PAR numbers you still have about 86 x .346 = 29.75 @ 24"............
> 
> JUSt an estimate but feel free to correct the math.. I'm getting old..


I picked up one of these for my 5g due to it's adjustability. Using a similar output to what you suggested here for 4 hrs with 2 hrs sunrise and 2 hrs sunset. Plants are really growing well with deep reds and lush growth. There was an immediate, visible difference over the old light in just a day with pearling even though the other was brighter. HC Cuba started laying down the 2nd or 3rd day. Algae is retreating as the tank and aquasoil stabilizes. Buce all melted prior to this light but they are coming back slowly. 

Used the AI aluminum tank mount bracket. Plenty of adjustability 

Very happy so far and would recommend it


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## voyetra8

Anyone know what the CRI of this fixture is? Plugging in the LEDs into the simulator seems to come out to a CRI of 97... which seems impossibly high.


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## jeffkrol

Well it's only an estimate though w/ the diode choices and each channel independently controlled.. pretty easy to get that high..


> * MIXING LIST
> ----------------------------------------
> Cree XP-G CoolWhite (5000-10000K) [120°] x5
> Cree XP-G WarmWhite (2600-3700K) [120°] x1
> Cree XP-E Blue (465-485nm) [120°] x1
> Cree XP-E Green (520-535nm) [120°] x1
> PhilipsLumileds Luxeon-Rebel DeepRed (650-670nm) [120°] x1
> ----------------------------------------
> 
> * SIMULATION DATA
> ----------------------------------------
> Luminous flux : 979 lm
> Radiant flux : 3,814 mW
> PPF : 17.5 umol/s
> TCP : 6850 K
> CRI : 98
> λp : 659 nm
> Color : #EAFFFC


----------------------------------------
Some poetic license:
Need to borrow deep red from Luxeon since the calc doesn't have CREE photo red.. This should be fairly equiv.
CREE cool white has quite the range..
CREE cool white alone per calc have a cri of 91... WHICH seems unreasonably high
Warm whites need heavy dimming in [email protected] D65


90 or less seems like a better generalization at full power..but a lot of variables.. CREE G2's don't have part good cri's
Calc, for some reason has many "cool white" LEd's regardless of brand at 90-ish CRI



> 6 - Cree XP-G2 Cool White (> 70 CRI)
> 4 - Cree XP-G2 Warm White
> 1 - Cree XP-E2 Blue
> 1 - Cree XP-E Photo Red
> 1 - Cree XP-E2 Green


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## voyetra8

Interesting. 

I work with high-CRI LEDs in my line of work. The difference between 91 and 97+ seems pretty significant to my eyes. 

(My main complaint about my Current Sat Plus Pro's is that the CRI doesn't seem particularly awesome... I'd guess it's in the high 80s / low 90s...) 

Have you seen an AI Prime in person yet?


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## jeffkrol

voyetra8 said:


> Interesting.
> 
> I work with high-CRI LEDs in my line of work. The difference between 91 and 97+ seems pretty significant to my eyes.


Yea but you have trained eyes..

so why not build your own?? You'll never be 100% content otherwise.. 

As to seeing the AI's no..

You should check out the Lumiled "fresh fish" COB.. Don't laugh .. 


> Dear Jeff,
> 
> Thank you for your interest in Lumileds. We apologize for the delayed response.
> The CRI measurement is 95 typical.
> We hope this information was useful.
> 
> Regards,


Only really need to add ww if you want better sunset/sunrises..


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## jeffkrol

This was just for fun:


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## voyetra8

jeffkrol said:


> Yea but you have trained eyes..
> 
> so why not build your own?? You'll never be 100% content otherwise..


Oh don't get me started... I've been all over the Yuji site, and creeping in threads where you always seem to surface.  

My main issue with building my own is that I'm not confident enough in my technical skills to give me something that I can control. 

Ideally, I want the functionality of the AIs / Ecotech with iOS integration and channel control. I just don't have the wherewithal to pull it off myself. 



> As to seeing the AI's no..
> 
> You should check out the Lumiled "fresh fish" COB.. Don't laugh ..
> 
> Only really need to add ww if you want better sunset/sunrises..


Is this the LED for butcher / fish market lighting?


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## jeffkrol

voyetra8 said:


> Oh don't get me started... I've been all over the Yuji site, and creeping in threads where you always seem to surface.
> 
> My main issue with building my own is that I'm not confident enough in my technical skills to give me something that I can control.
> 
> Ideally, I want the functionality of the AIs / Ecotech with iOS integration and channel control. I just don't have the wherewithal to pull it off myself.


yuji was just a convenient available graph.. this time

Shouldn't be so skeptical.. Building is pretty simple..
Only rule seems to be the easier to build advanced lighting the more expensive.. 










Change the Storm for a Bluefish or Bluefish mini and you have full cloud control.
Tinker toys.. Actually the hardest part is making it look pretty.. 



voyetra8 said:


> Is this the LED for butcher / fish market lighting?


Yes....


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## voyetra8

jeffkrol said:


> yuji was just a convenient available graph.. this time
> 
> Shouldn't be so skeptical.. Building is pretty simple..
> Only rule seems to be the easier to build advanced lighting the more expensive..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Change the Storm for a Bluefish or Bluefish mini and you have full cloud control.
> Tinker toys.. Actually the hardest part is making it look pretty..
> 
> 
> Yes....


OK, now I'm intrigued - I didn't realize these components existed! To your latter point, making it look good would be a deal-killer for me - I'm just too particular about aesthetics. 

In fact, part of the reason I'm interested in the AI because I can hide the cord behind the arm. Right now, my Current Sat+ Pro has the cord sticking out the side, and it looks terrible. I have beautiful glass lily pipes, and an inline heater to keep the scape clean - and there is an ugly black power cord sticking out the side... lol. 

What do you think of the feasibility of an off-the-shelf fixture like the AI, and swapping out the LEDs with "preferred" models?


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## jeffkrol

DIY Pricing Showdown! | MakersLED
And an ai "ARM"..


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## Lingwendil

jeffkrol said:


> Yea but you have trained eyes..
> 
> so why not build your own?? You'll never be 100% content otherwise..
> 
> As to seeing the AI's no..
> 
> You should check out the Lumiled "fresh fish" COB.. Don't laugh ..
> 
> 
> Only really need to add ww if you want better sunset/sunrises..


The more I see the graph for the "fresh fish" the more I really want to pair one with either the LumiLEDs 3000k "crisp white" COB, or the 97CRI Citizen 2700/3000k offerings. I really should order one to play with.

The graph for the 97CRI Citizen (CLU028 datasheet is where I got this graph) look great. I'm using the 4000k as my base white in a big reef fixture build-


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## hpimichael02

HBdirtbag : Would you sell your old light  I just ordered these primes to but always looking for MH for my reefs


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## HBdirtbag

hpimichael02 said:


> HBdirtbag : Would you sell your old light  I just ordered these primes to but always looking for MH for my reefs




Yes. 100%. Dm me. 


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## HBdirtbag

I’m a few weeks into use and I’m happy. I didn’t want this to be a “high light tank” and want something in the middle. I have the whites turned down to about 80% and am getting good growth


Tank is a [censored][censored][censored][censored] show...excuse the mess...










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## Botia dude

Just upgraded my 17g to a 69g UNS 90U with a pair of AI Prime FW. Great spectrum and growth on my 5g so I jumped in on this one too instead of SBReef Lights. They are almost 100% across the board except at sunrise I have more red/less blue and vice versa at sunset. 3 hr ramp with 4hr peak. So far (really new tank) they are really working well. Getting good growth. I've since raised them to 5" above the water from 4" and will probably raise them another inch.


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## Immortal1

Nice looking tank - really like the layout. Have been curious how well the AI Prime lights would work over a bigger tank. I ended up with the Radion XR15 Freshwater lights on my 75g tank but I have several other tanks that might be perfect for the AI Prime. @Botia dude what do you think of the software that comes with the AI Prime lights?


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## Botia dude

Immortal1 said:


> Nice looking tank - really like the layout. Have been curious how well the AI Prime lights would work over a bigger tank. I ended up with the Radion XR15 Freshwater lights on my 75g tank but I have several other tanks that might be perfect for the AI Prime. @Botia dude what do you think of the software that comes with the AI Prime lights?


Thank you! Appreciate the kind words. The android app can be a bit buggy but the web app you log into via the light network works great. I've heard the Apple app is better than the android as well but can't test that. It will take a bit to get used to the app, there are more controls than you think and there doesn't seem to be great instructions. Also there's a lack of starting set points out there that you can just plug in as a baseline. Jeffkrol worked up one in this thread that I used on the 5g and I took it from there. If you decide to get one I'd be happy to help if needed.


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## Immortal1

Thank-you on the offer for help. Kinda had the same experience with the Radion lights - they had a suggestion for a freshwater tank but I though it looked like crap. Used my Seneye sensor to figure out what would likely work best and so far am a little over 2 weeks into the new lighting - so far so good. Good to hear you are happy with the light. Not surprising on the software issue.


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## rebelrebel

Anyone further updates on your tanks which have the AI prime FW? Would love to see the red plants in particular...


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## OVT

bump


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## crisp330

OVT said:


> bump


Same! I ordered 3 of these with the mounting brackets for my new 125 setup. They should be here Monday. I'd love some updates on how you guys are liking them, what settings you're using, how they're performing, etc. I'm going to try to program my own 24/7 routine (similar to Finnex 24/7 mode). Let's start sharing our schedules/setups!


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## Steven Yee

Hi All,
I'm new to this forum. I'm based in Jakarta and just received the AI Prime Freshwater HD, I have a custom corner unit that is roughly 140 gallon with a depth of 28 inches, any advice on setting for this would be great. i have 10 years of reef experience but this is my first foray into fresh water planted systems.

Thanks!


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## Kubla

I'm ready to clean up my light mess and get something decent over my tank. I'm currently debating between AI Prime, SB Reefbox and DIY. I'm wanting to get at least to the high end of medium light. It's an odd shaped tank, 92 gallon corner. It's a quarter round. Right at 48" from front corner to front corner with an 36" wide opening for the light. 32" from the front arc to the back corner. 24" deep. I built a curved sheetmetal hood for the front that's about 1 foot tall so I have plenty of room above the tank to hide lights, brackets etc. (I can always make it taller, I own a full sheet metal shop.) Trying to get an idea of how 2 of these will work. I know the back corner won't get much light but I don't think I have an issue with that. Looking for opinions on how these lights would work on this tank, or if I should look at 1 of the other options.


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## jeffkrol

Kubla said:


> I'm ready to clean up my light mess and get something decent over my tank. I'm currently debating between AI Prime, SB Reefbox and DIY. I'm wanting to get at least to the high end of medium light. It's an odd shaped tank, 92 gallon corner. It's a quarter round. Right at 48" from front corner to front corner with an 36" wide opening for the light. 32" from the front arc to the back corner. 24" deep. I built a curved sheetmetal hood for the front that's about 1 foot tall so I have plenty of room above the tank to hide lights, brackets etc. (I can always make it taller, I own a full sheet metal shop.) Trying to get an idea of how 2 of these will work. I know the back corner won't get much light but I don't think I have an issue with that. Looking for opinions on how these lights would work on this tank, or if I should look at 1 of the other options.



All 3 are about the same unless you add a "cutout" for a 3rd light.Each "bar" is 36" and crude outline but close enough..
32" sbreef is prob. a better choice..and stronger.. say 100W 2 AI's vs "real" wattage of about 200 plus..
Need to consider "intangibles" like AI prime has better channel control over the sbReef..
32" WIFi enabled sbreef is $460-ish..
AI Prime has an advantage if you ad a 3rd for the back.. (but $600











DIY has dozens of options,, more or less expensive than the above..depending on needs..

Oh and you need to watch the beam angles and light heights..


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