# Newbie: Best for goldfish?



## VeeSe (Apr 16, 2011)

Be aware that goldfish eat (and thus destroy) most plants, so it will be best to start with the very small list of plants that they don't eat and then pick from there.


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## kribkeeper888 (Oct 8, 2011)

I've never actually kept goldfish so I'm probly not the one who has the best idea on this but I might give you some advice, lighting is essential, pretty much no matter what the case, I mean everyone wants to be able to see their fish right? 
Heating isnt essential for goldfish certainly but I know a guy who kept goldfish at 82 degrees F. 
I THINK you should be able to keep the above mentioned fish in a 30 gallon but dont quote me on that haha  But as to the question of plants; when i first started keeping fish (and had no idea what i was doing) I successfuly kept two Anubias Nana very well under 15 watts of lighting (basically your simple single bulb light fixture) and in simple riverbed peagravel bought at my local petsmart, no flourite, no fertilizer. The plus side to this plant also is that its leaves are very tough, I had some plant eating fish that couldnt hurt them and it doesnt die period, at least in my experiance. 
As for filtration, I have a friend who had and Aquaclear, witch served as a very basic filter but he liked the merineland penguin series filters much better and i personally use them on three of my 5 tanks. But if your really on a budget the aquaclear is cheaper. 
Anyway, hoped I helped a little


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

That's a pretty small tank for goldfish. Maybe a single "fancy" variety, but IMO a 55gal + would be a much better size.

That being said, some Crypts, Java fern, mosses, Anubias, and Vals would probably be good choices in terms of plants to try.


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## ValMM (Feb 22, 2011)

Goldfish have no stomachs, just intestines, so they don't really digest what they eat. It goes in and comes out. That's why most people say, "They're messy fish." They eat all day long, so if you put a little duckweed as a floating plant, they'll eat it.


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## Mannie Bothans (Oct 8, 2011)

Thanks everyone. Now is the time for me to make big decisions that will limit my options down the line. Tank size is a very important factor for me to consider. I have a new option for a location that could accomodate a larger tank, so that might be worth taking advantage of right now.

The Anubius sounds perfect! Now I need to do more research on vals, crypts, javafern, mosses etc, to see how likely it might be that a goldfish would destroy each one. My son is really set on a ryukin goldfish, so my plant choices will need to revolve around that.


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## Lutra (Sep 30, 2011)

Mannie, I have a fantail living with some plants under medium-low light. She munched the top off of an Echinodorus 'Vesuvius' but she hasn't touched the anubias or the Java ferns, I recommend them as a good place to start. I put in some Java moss and though she didn't eat it, she seemed offended by its presence -- at least she keeps tearing off any stem that gets more than an inch long. I'm still experimenting! It's not impossible, so don't be discouraged. And yes, if you can get a bigger tank, by all means do so.


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## Mannie Bothans (Oct 8, 2011)

*GOT THE TANK! Need lighting advice*

Anubius nana, Java Ferns, and crypts seem to be getting universally great reports. I'll start there. Many seem to say Vallsneria is good as well (and the twisty ones look really neat. 

I bought a tank tonight. Now I just need to figure out what to do about the lights. It came with a plastic "Model 30PAL-F" light (which appears to be a single fluorescent bulb, encased in a fanless perfectastrip that has "Rated 120VAC, 60Hz, 20 W" on a sticker.

The tank itself is a 56G column that's 30inches wide, 18inches deep, and 24inches tall.

I need to figure out a good layout and then decide how to cycle the thing. :help:

I need to return the Aquaclear 50 to the LFS, tonight I picked up an Emperor 400 from PetSmart. PetSmart has some healthy-looking anubius nana and something that might have had crypt in the name. I feel like I have a steep learning curve.


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## Lutra (Sep 30, 2011)

Mannie Bothans said:


> I feel like I have a steep learning curve.


You and me both!


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## kribkeeper888 (Oct 8, 2011)

Well as for your filter choice you couldnt have done better, my emporer 400 is the best filter i have ever had, it really keeps the water clear and with the biowheels it helps your tank out with more then just keeping it clean !


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## londonloco (Aug 25, 2005)

Whoaaa, I really wish you hadn't returned that AC50, there is a reason AC's have been around forever, it's the best HOB out there...I just noticed you bought a 56g col tank. I would have suggested buying another AC50, or going with an AC110.


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## Coursair (Apr 16, 2011)

With Goldfish you want to Overfilter. So for 56g I'd double that and get either a canister filter or an HOB filter rated for 100+ g or two AC50's. I do prefer Aquaclears. 

I worked at a Petsmart for 3 years. AC's were the quietest and the most reliable HOB filter we sold IMHO. 

Get used to weekly partial water changes. 

Plants : 
+1 Anubias (seem to taste bad)
Java Ferns
Bolbitis
All of these can be tied to rocks or Dwiftwood which will avoid the uprooting issue. 

If you want to try some Cryptocoryne you can either plant them in pots and hide pots with decor OR plant them and surround the stem with rocks or wood to keep the fish from uprooting them. 

I believe if you offer a varied diet with lots of fresh veggies; shelled green peas, zucchini, spinach, romaine, etc... Your plants have a better chance at survival. 

Your fish will LOVE having a large tank to grow into. Avoid sharp edged decor with Fancy GF. And you can set large rocks to break up the flow, if the current is too strong. 

No floating flake food. Presoak it or feed sinking food. Fancies have issues with food expanding in their gut. 

Plus you can try training your fish 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3JFmrlgWAk&feature=youtube_gdata_player


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Mannie Bothans (Oct 8, 2011)

Well, I guess I don't have to take back the AC50. The Emperor 400 is rated for 90gallons, and the AC 
50 might have an adjustable flow, so maybe I'll try one on each end of the tank.

I wish the included hood could support enough light just by changing a bulb, but alas, that doesn't look like an option. I just need to figure out a good balance for growth that won't require additional co2 and wont encourage algae growth.

THANKS everyone for all of the Goldfish-specific advice!


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## kribkeeper888 (Oct 8, 2011)

I dont want to cause any problems here but i have used both the AC and the 400 and I liked the 400 a LOT more


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## Mannie Bothans (Oct 8, 2011)

Wow, it makes me feel good that people are saying that both of my hobs are top notch. I am on my way out to find better lights.


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## xjasminex (Jul 26, 2011)

Hello, just adding my two cents, i have two fancies in a 55 gallon. 
I have no plants with them yet, as i need better light but in the future it will be so.
I have read alot though. 
Goldfish eat plants, as it has been said. One thing when planting a goldfish tank is to plant heavy, if there are a couple of plants they goldfish will pick at them even if they dont eat them. They will try to pull it outta the gravel, so planting lots of plants distributes the picking. 

Also since goldfish are dirty fish and eat everything ( i call them cows underwater ) Usually intense gravel vacuuming in needed depending on your subtrate. Like rifling through the gravel with the end of your vacuum, because of this many goldfish owners keep a bare bottom tank and keep their plants in pots like terra cotta or pretty glass (like candle holders from walmart). It just depends on what you want. I dont like bare bottom tanks, plus i think my goldfish would get really bored with out stuff to pick through. 

General rule for tank size and goldfish is starting out your first fish needs 15-20 gallons, and every fish after that needs ten gallons. So a thirty would have worked if your fish were small bit after they get bigger they just look cramped, so bigger is always better with goldfish. 

And for the filters the rule is ten times the filtration an hour so if your tank is 56 gallons you need 560 gallon an hour. 

And weekly water changes are a MUST, lol. 
www.thegab.com is a great goldfish centered website that has greatly helped me to improved the life of my goldfish. Its definitaly a great site for goldfish!

Good Luck! 
Jasmine


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Certain kinds of riparium plants go well with goldfish too. If you can keep them with fairly bright light they'll also provide very good plant filtration.


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## sweet chariot (Nov 14, 2010)

I have for goldfish in a 55, and some good plant choices I've found are: 
-vallisneria
-echinodorus 
-sagittaria 
-java fern
-rotala

There is a link to my journal for that tank in my sig. 
As Jasmine said thegab is a great goldfish forum. You can also check out koko's goldfish forum . It is another great site to help beginners with goldfish keeping.


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## kribkeeper888 (Oct 8, 2011)

Ja you have a good taste in filters


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## Mannie Bothans (Oct 8, 2011)

TYhis is EXTREMELY helpful advice! I was searching for a good Goldfish forum. I think I will need to special order lights. Locally I can only find very low wattage ones.


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## xjasminex (Jul 26, 2011)

Yea, lights can be tricky and expensive when your looking to get local and stay cheap, thats why i dont have them yet because you need good quality lights for a tank that deep or tons of CFLS. One of the lfs around where i am has a T5 fixture that is a good price like 60 dollars for one for my fifty five so thats going to be my next big purchase!


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## Mannie Bothans (Oct 8, 2011)

I want to try to increase my chances of hitting the sweetspot to not need CO2 and not just feed the algae.

It appears as though there is a great disparity between different brands of products. If my budget wasn't so "low-tech" it would be amazing to invest in a PAR meter.

My new tank came with a T8 24inch single 20w white-"reflector"Perfecto strip. Today,before reading Hoppy's lighting thread, I just went out and bought the best I could find locally: an Aqueon brand dual-lamp, 30inch long set with a very square mirror reflector and 2 included 18W(each) T5-sized bulbs.

My tank is probably going to be difficult to light properly. It is a 56Gallon tank that is 30inches wide, 18inches from front-to-back, and 24inches tall.

This is a picture of what I now have: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/12554833/lights.jpg

I have absolutely no idea how bad (or good) these ballasts are, but it seems pretty obvious what these reflectors are like.

I am trying to wrap my brain around exactly what the micromols might be at the very bottom, middle, and top of my tank if I used exactly what I have now.

I'm guessing maybe it would yield low light at the very bottom and mid-to-high at the very top if I used all three bulbs? I have a big hunk of driftwood that I could use as an elevated planter to getthe plants closer to the top, if I absolutely had to.

I don't want the plants to grow incredibly quickly. Low-tech and low-maintenance is quite preferable-- but my main concern is not creating the perfect recipe for algae.

Do I need both of the sets that I have now or does putting them both together do absolutely nothing toward getting more light into the recesses of the bottom of the tank?


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

I'll add Cryptocorynes to the list, along with some lower light sword plants. If you're going to keep any plant, there _will be_ maintenance. You will have to trim. But, with your low-light approach, trimming doesn't need to happen every few days, more like every 2 weeks. _Egeria densa_ is a very good grazing plant for them, and it outgrows their attentions, same with _Rotala rotundifolia.
_
Another thing to look into is maybe a 1/2" layer of organic dirt on the bottom of your tank with your substrate on top. Really makes a difference to your plants, especially if you are going to get heavy root-feeders, like swords, or crypts.

Algae is inevitable, but a little is pretty, and a lot doesn't happen enough to fret about. You are probably going to see some brown dust algae in the first few months making a patina over everything, but your plant mass will put that in its place. Most times, as long as you have a good amount of plants, there's little algae. Goldfish also have a taste for certain algae.


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## squidsquiggle (Sep 27, 2011)

I have a planted tank with a ryukin goldfish, and I'd recommend onion plants. My ryukin loves to swim through the tall leaves, but shows no interest in eating them. I'm not sure about uprooting, though, I have them behind a rock so he's never had a chance to get to the roots. Of all the plants I have, the only ones he messes with are the java moss (nibbling) and watersprite (uprooting - but then they work well as a floating plant, too). My anubias, wisteria, and java fern are all doing great and are completely uninteresting to my ryukin. Good luck!


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Here's the 29G setup that I put together for a single oranda. The underwater area just has Penn Plax silk plants and then I have riparium plants abovewater. The _Cyperus_ plants really grow like crazy in there and there is also a happy leather fern. It must be real good plant filtration because the roots grow all over the place.


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## Mannie Bothans (Oct 8, 2011)

*Narrowing it down...*

Okay, I now have way more plant ideas than room for all of them. Can you help me narrow what (and how many of each) will fit in my space constraints? 

Side to side tank width = 30 inches
Front to back tank depth = 18 inches
Top to bottom tank height = 24 inches

My water temp will be 66.5ºF and right now I have 1 30inch long dual lamp T5 Aqueon light 18W+18W=36W (like the coralife ones). I also have 1 24 inch T8 20w, (but I don't know if both the T8 and the T5s would be necessary at the same time). 

Do any of the following explode in growth under my conditions? Are any more particularly suited to my tank than others? Have I mis-classified any of the following for my tank climate (e.g. have I classified a backgrounder as a foreground, etc.)? Which ones in each category would you skip, and how many of each would you plant?

Foreground:
1. Java Moss (64.4ºF - 86ºF)
2. Dwarf Sag (Sagittaria Subulata) 71.6ºF - 82.4ºF

Mid-Ground:

1. Coffee Anubias (Anubias Barteri Coffeefolia) 69.8 ºF - 86ºF
2. Red Crypt Beckettii (Cryptocoryne beckettii) 68ºF - 86 ºF
3. African Water Fern (Bolbitis heudelotii) 68ºF - 80.6ºF 
4. Phillipine Java Fern (Phillipine Microsorum Pteropus) 64.4ºF - 86 ºF
5. Vallisneria Asiatica Biwaensis (Corkscrew Val) 65ºF - 83ºF 

Background:

1. Red Rubin Sword (Echinodorus Rubin) 64.4ºF - 86 ºF
2. light green Water Wisteria (Hygrophila Diformis) 75.2ºF - 82.4ºF 
3. Rotala (Rotundifolia) 64.4ºF - 82.4ºF
4. Anacharis (Egeria Densa) 50ºF - 82.4ºF

Other specifics about my particular setup:

total tank water volume = 56 gallons
Fish = 2 ryukin/fantail/veiltail-type goldfish
Substrate = 1.5 inches of Flourite + 1.5 inches of sand
Low tech, no CO2
2 HOB filters across the back (one does 200gph and the other does 400gph)

THANKS to everyone here who have been SO incredibly helpful already!


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## Gold Finger (Oct 13, 2011)

My fancys seem to be fine in water as cold as 66 degrees, but that's pretty cold according to the experts. They say 74 is about right for most fancy species. IME its not a health factor all by itself (if all your other parameters are good).


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## Gold Finger (Oct 13, 2011)

P.S. Good move going up to the 50 Gal. In a 30 fancys begin to stunt and suffer health wise at around 5 inches length. The 50 will let them get closer to their full potential size and lifespan, which is up to 40 years and 12 inches depending on the species. (Koi (a totally different fish) are the longest lived vertebrate on record and can live to be 300, by the way). Goldfish are great pets. I think it's a shame so many people write them off. They have a lot of personality and the most trait specific selective breeding of any fish (over a thousand years worth). Oh and (on topic) I'd throw in a bunch of loose (floating) Egeria or something else they like to eat in the tank in beginning to help with the parameters and spare the plants you like from their maws. They do eat like pigs and produce nitrogen like cows.


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## Mannie Bothans (Oct 8, 2011)

Gold Finger said:


> My fancys seem to be fine in water as cold as 66 degrees, but that's pretty cold according to the experts. They say 74 is about right for most fancy species. IME its not a health factor all by itself (if all your other parameters are good).


Tonight I was just reading more about care, and I saw a lot of references to higher temperatures. Maybe I need to aim for 68 to 70 F for fantails/ryukins.


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## Gold Finger (Oct 13, 2011)

haven't kept a lot of either of those, but am pretty sure 70- 72 is about right for both. they are among the hardiest of the fancys.


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## Seedreemer (Sep 28, 2008)

Hydrophyte, I love your set-up! I take it that tank cart is on wheels so you can move it around to follow the sun? Great idea. And how did you attach that Cyperus plants?


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