# Help me convince my manager to raise the CO2!!



## Darkblade48 (Jan 4, 2008)

2-3 bubbles is not really meaningful, as ultimately, it depends on whether it is being effectively dissolved into your water column (similarly, you could have a bubble rate of 10 bubbles per second, but it would be meaningless if it was being off gassed).

For your drop checker, are you using 4 dkH reference solution?


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## edstewart5 (Sep 24, 2013)

Well, according to your bubble counter and a pH KH chart, your CO2 is around 30ppm. While they may both be inaccurate, both of them giving the same area of reading is a pretty good sign.


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## Hardstuff (Oct 13, 2012)

I run EI dosing. I do not know how the other systems work. The drop checker will give false readings if using a diffuser or an atomizer. The little bubbles will get lodged in the drop checker an usually give a lower reading than real. However, if you are using a regency ph test kit they usually run .2 lower than a calibrated digital will read, at least from my experience. If you want a better ph reading use a digital reader that is calibrated & compare with your kh regency test kit. The only other variable will be the type of substrate being used or wood & maybe limestone rocks but I am sure you know better about the rocks, so drift wood & some nutrient rich substrates can alter the ph. That's why I stick with Flourite & hard laterite, uncoated gravel. Another variable is surface agitation. That will vary per set up, some folks like a little more some less.
Sounds like you are close to the magic 30 ppm, but you need to compare to digital readings if you have not already done so yet. If you are injecting with external reactor with a tank that size , that would be the way to go. 
As far as BBA is concerned, I find that stuff very brutal. With CO2 alone may not work for you. If your CO2 is coming on with the lights you will be deficient from the start. You need the CO2 turned on 1-2 hours before lights on & 30 minutes off on average before lights off. 
(Big swings in CO2 MAY trigger it) I am thinking of experimenting with a mini on CO2 cycle at night for 1 hour or more to try & keep levels up or more stable rather than causing big drops & rises in PH. Just a theory Im thinking of working on. My small tank takes 2.5 hours to drop my 10 gallon from ph of 7.3 to 6.6 using an atomizer! Which to me is a little fast for the fish to catch up to. 
I have been working hard to keep my CO2 more stable. I have had some pretty good results but BBA continues to grow in my tanks mostly on back glass & filter fittings. I have experienced more BBA growth in high flow areas than low flow. I really feel that besides unstable CO2 BBA thrives with excess Fe, & higher DOC'S! Organic buildup in the substrate & filters with very high flow will grow this stuff at high rates from my experience.
Having multi filter with big filter boxes with less flow & low volume circulators in the tanks keeping Fe low will go a long way. 
6500k bulbs should be used. Most algae has a harder time using that narrow part of the spectrum. Hydrogen peroxide spot treat problem areas & remove dead leaves, dose excel at first but do not use long term.
Just having 30 ppms or more during light cycle will not kill off this stuff. My DIY tank holds 30-50ppms 24-7 most of the time & still grows BBA! So my mini cycle in the middle of the night will probably be a dead end. 
Best advice I can give will be keep doing what you are doing but get the CO2 up before lights on & check digital , but your substrate may be giving you false results. Keep nutrient level up but watch the Fe. Keep the substrate clean & the filters. High flow on the plants will grow BBA like crazy.
One last not, sorry if I am wrong, but did you mention you are growing slower growing plants? If so stock many more faster growing stems that can help as well. My 3 cents


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## aluka (Feb 2, 2013)

Should throw in a school of true sae, my 3 ate all my bba in a week  !


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

FYI, I cannot count the BPS on any 120 Gallon tank. Too fast.
I suppose if the bubbles were huge. 30 ppm may or may not be enough.
Depends on each tank. Mostly the rates of degassing need to be stable and then the rates of addition. If one changes or is not stable, then the other is not either.
If the rate of degassing is too much for your CO2 system to keep up with, also a huge problem.
Not enough O2 coming in from surface movement= huge problem for the fish.

This is a social problem and company organization, he's the boss, you are not. He's responsible for the tank full of BBA, NOT you. 
You can offer advice, but do not expect him to take it. 

Show him one of my tanks, the 120 Gallon Dutch tank(CO2 is about 50 ppm in each tank), then the 70 Gallon Woodagumi/Buce tank. One is high light, the other is a low light tank.

Both get 5-10X more ferts and likely 2x more CO2.
No algae, fish health is excellent and plant health is awesome(even by the most expert of plant grower's). Compared to his advice: BBA and so so plant growth/BBA etc.
Light is close, a tad higher in the Buce tank, but for most purposes, the same overall.

I have never once seen any correlation with Fe, dissolved organics or any other factor than CO2/degassing/current etc and BBA. Never, not in 20+ years of using CO2. 
I have heard of potential cases on the net........but I have never seen a single case in person.
CO2 is not a simple one dimensional thing. 

People are very errant on its usage........ and it shows. Way too much(kill their fish), or not enough(algae).
Too much degassing, not enough current. 

I think most of the experts do not rely a great deal on a precise ppm, rather, look at the plants/fish and know what to look for health wise.
This is done by slowly and progressively adjusting the CO2 up till you note no new algae growth and excellent plant growth along with good fish behaviors/feeding.
Many of the top Aquascapes in competition lack fish, or have them added at the very end or have very tough CO2 tolerant species. I do not view that are a good habit or skill frankly.
I'd like to see the same fish for a 1-2 years in the tanks.











2-3 months later:





Video of my 180 Gallon which runs at about 60-70 ppm of CO2:


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## Jalopy (Aug 11, 2013)

One thing too is that if you have driftwood in your tank, the pH/Hardness to CO2 correlation is not going to be accurate. Tom, is right, change things little by little until everything looks right.

By the way, sorry to say, just clock in/out, cash your check and do whatever your manager tells you to do. That's the only way he/she will trust you more and maybe next time they'll actually collaborate with you. Just remember how you'll do things differently when you have your own shop.


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## ptychoptera (Sep 12, 2013)

Thanks to everyone who chimed in. 
You helped convince my manager to increase the CO2. 
Now lets hope this actually works...


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## xmas_one (Feb 5, 2010)

if it doesn't work...


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## MiSo (Oct 26, 2005)

i got about 5-6 bps going into an inline reactor for a 57 gallon tank. 
2-3 for a 120 is way too low.


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