# does it realy matter to have a dark or black substrate for rcs color?



## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

Yes, it does help quite a bit.


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## Natty (Apr 2, 2008)

i love planted tanks said:


> i was wondering if it realy matters to have a dark or black substrate to bring out the red in rcs. i have about 10 rcs's and only 2 of them have realy red color is this because they are older or just healthier i know the females are usually darker red than males are. by the way i have silica sand for my substrate in my shrimp tank.so should i get black substrate to make the rcs's color to come out or should i just wait to see if there color gets darker as they age?


Black/dark substrate doesn't help increase the color in your shrimps, it just helps your shrimp stand out more in comparison to the substrate.

Like if you go flourite, which has some red parts in it, you don't see the shrimps as much. However, you still do see them, especially when they're on your greenish plants.

So, no. It doesn't matter when it comes to how red your cherries are, but if u want them to stand out, dark/black substrate is preferred. I've had incredibly red shrimps even in flourite and I've seen not so red shrimps with people using dark/black substrate, so that there shows that substrate isn't the big key to bringing out colors.


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## i love planted tanks (Apr 27, 2008)

so it is visualy not phisicly ?


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

Natty said:


> Black/dark substrate doesn't help increase the color in your shrimps, it just helps your shrimp stand out more in comparison to the substrate.


Yes it does, at least with _Neocaridina heteropoda_ - which I've seen in Cherries and Minamis. Coloration gets much darker to 'match' the substrate - this isn't just the 'standing out effect' - it is a significant change in shrimp coloration, observable especially in young shrimp. In the case of cherries, it is a deeper red, in the case of Minamis, it is a change from almost clear to nearly black. I haven't observed this in other species such as _Neocaridina zhangjiajiensis_ (Snowballs) or _ Caridina cantonensis _(Tigers) whose color remains constant regardless of environment.


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## rickylbc (Jun 6, 2008)

It does help a lot.


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## oblongshrimp (Jul 26, 2006)

I have noticed the ones I have one white sand are lighter in color then the ones i have on dark substrate.


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## Natty (Apr 2, 2008)

It can just mean your cherries have more red genes.

I've had quite a few cherry shrimps awhile back on flourite and they were as red if not more red than the shrimps I've been seeing here with people using black substrate. I don't see much difference, maybe it gives the illusion/impression of being more red since you're comparing them to a whole different color then if you were to compare red shrimps against red flourite.

However, some of your logic seems reasonable.

But not everyone with dark substrate has red shrimps and not everyone that has flourite has paler shrimps and vice versa, so even if substrate does somehow effect it, it seems the effects vary. You also have to take into consideration that there are other factors that contribute to how red cherry shrimps are. Some variables are known while others are not so much.

I tried black substrate before but had a few complaints from other people around the house (they dislike black color, while I it doesn't matter to me). But since my tank is in my office, I'll just change it to black later on. We'll see. Thanks for the info!


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## i love planted tanks (Apr 27, 2008)

ya iam gonna go out tomarrow when i get my check and go buy some black gravel to see if the shrimp get darker red


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## oblongshrimp (Jul 26, 2006)

its hard to know if its the color changing or if it just looks darker. You can have a shrimp that is not a solid red, the parts that aren't red being clearish. You put that shrimp on a dark substrate and those clear areas will look dark, you put that shrimp on a white or light substrate and those clear areas will be clear or at least lighter in color making them stand out more and making the shrimp look less red. 

Regardless of why they may look darker on a dark substrate it doesn't effect their genes at all. When you sell them they won't be any better if they were raised on a dark substrate as they would just adapt to whatever color substrate they were moved to. Just figure out which look you like best and go with it.


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## DBL TAP (Apr 27, 2008)

I have a tank with Flourite and RCS. All I can say is I wish I used a 'black' substrate.


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## oblongshrimp (Jul 26, 2006)

i dont like flourite because since its so many different colors the shrimp don't stand out nearly as well.


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## DBL TAP (Apr 27, 2008)

Black Flourite is quality. I wish I had some ADA but its just a bit out of my price range.


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## wayneside (Jun 17, 2008)

you can definitely see them alot better...


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## bulrush (May 7, 2007)

I have one tank with black gravel, and other tanks with natural gravel or sand. The RCS increase their pigmentation in the black gravel tank in order to hide better. So yes, the black gravel helps make them more red. My RCS in the sand or natural tanks are much more pale. If I were to put them in the black gravel tank, they would increase their redness in 1-2 days.


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

+1 on everyone who has said that the shrimp are darker in color as opposed to standing out more.

I have a bajillion of these guys and the ones in my tank with black gravel are much more vibrant than the ones in the tank with play sand.


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## Natty (Apr 2, 2008)

bulrush said:


> I have one tank with black gravel, and other tanks with natural gravel or sand. The RCS increase their pigmentation in the black gravel tank in order to hide better. So yes, the black gravel helps make them more red. My RCS in the sand or natural tanks are much more pale. If I were to put them in the black gravel tank, they would increase their redness in 1-2 days.


How is this logical?

If they are in black substrate, I don't understand how increasing their red color helps them blend into a background more and hide them from predators?

Wouldn't it be more logical to decrease their red color? Red isn't exactly the best camouflaging color, picture on the first page sort of proves it even more.

Am I missing something or what?


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

Natty said:


> Am I missing something or what?


You're thinking shrimp can see color vividly like us. They may not even know that they're red. Remember the original offspring where from brown parents and I'm sure the instinct comes from that.

I doubt shrimp use logic.

-Andrew


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Same thing happens with Cardinal tetras- a definite preference for dark substrates will bring out more of their color.

White is what stands out most vividly against black, not other colors. You also have to remember that the colors we see with our eyes are generally not seen the same way in the animal world. Some animals see only UV light, for example...


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## vance71975 (Jun 4, 2008)

Natty said:


> How is this logical?
> 
> If they are in black substrate, I don't understand how increasing their red color helps them blend into a background more and hide them from predators?
> 
> ...


Chances are they have the ability to go more clearish Or More Redish, they cant of course turn black to blend in, so they do the closest thing they can get darker red.

A lot of Fish, and animals are proven to be completely colorblind Dogs for example see in Black and white and Shades of gray but cant see color at all. In a natural environment they dont have to "Match or blend" Just get dark enough to make them harder to see. Look at it like this. If you were completely color blind and you have a Clearish whiteish shrimp on black gravel and a Dark Red shrimp on black gravel which will you be able to see easier?


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

Natty said:


> How is this logical?
> 
> If they are in black substrate, I don't understand how increasing their red color helps them blend into a background more and hide them from predators?
> 
> ...


Yes, you are. Cherries' "real" color is that of 'minami' shrimp - i.e. clear to black, depending on environment. I'm sure it is a highly successful strategy in the wild - they blend in quite well. Any cherries that pop up naturally won't last long in the wild - they stick out like a sore thumb (i.e. a sore thumb is a red thumb). It's not like shrimp "choose" or "know" what is going on - it's genetically encoded intelligent behavior, which carries over despite the color morph. This is all very logical.


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## HOLLYWOOD (May 12, 2007)

Ill second that!



epicfish said:


> +1 on everyone who has said that the shrimp are darker in color as opposed to standing out more.
> 
> I have a bajillion of these guys and the ones in my tank with black gravel are much more vibrant than the ones in the tank with play sand.


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## redfalconf35 (Feb 24, 2008)

epicfish said:


> +1 on everyone who has said that the shrimp are darker in color as opposed to standing out more.
> 
> I have a bajillion of these guys and the ones in my tank with black gravel are much more vibrant than the ones in the tank with play sand.


Agreed... i switched from regular brown gravel to eco, and the color change was very noticable (even on rocks and driftwood). The shrimp are darker and more opaque on the dark substrate


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