# Red Root Floater Melting Recovery?



## JAMarlow (Jan 16, 2018)

Pulled the ones that had sunk and put them in a shallow glass pan with just enough water that the roots could support the stem to either the top of the water or close to it. Will see what happens over the next few days. Who knows, maybe a few more will make it. If not, then it will be an easier mess to clean up than if they were still in my aquarium.


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## JAMarlow (Jan 16, 2018)

About 3 plants recovered from the recovery bowl. The rest clearly died, even though at first it looked like they were trying to grow new leaves. Oh well. It was a good experiment. Now I know.

Have even fewer red root floaters in the tank. I swear, I think the bladder snails are eating some of the new leaves and roots. Almost all roots are now gone. Each morning there are fewer plants even though they looked healthy the night before.

I haven't found anyone mentioning bladder snails like to munch on healthy red root floaters. Has anyone had this issue?


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## tamsin (Jan 12, 2011)

I imagine the munching is because the plants are decaying rather then them damaging healthy ones. Have you got any ferts in the tank?


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## JAMarlow (Jan 16, 2018)

Yep, I've been dosing with Thrive. These particular RRF have had their roots turn red (roots were green when they arrived) and have put on new leaves (the edges of which are now turning red) since arriving, so I really don't think they were decaying.


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## stussy28 (Mar 17, 2016)

How often are you dosing thrive? Floaters are nutrient hogs


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

I have a similar situation in one of my tanks where the RRF have one leaf that looks 1/2 eaten and the other leaves look perfectly healthy. It seems like each plant has the one damaged leaf. Mine are also very healthy looking with nice red roots. I'm still trying to figure out if it's a deficiency or snails. There are some small ramshorn/bladder snails in there.


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## tamsin (Jan 12, 2011)

They react to light, so the higher the light the redder they get. Very impressive under full sun!


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## kaldurak (May 2, 2010)

houseofcards said:


> I have a similar situation in one of my tanks where the RRF have one leaf that looks 1/2 eaten and the other leaves look perfectly healthy. It seems like each plant has the one damaged leaf. Mine are also very healthy looking with nice red roots. I'm still trying to figure out if it's a deficiency or snails. There are some small ramshorn/bladder snails in there.


I get a similar issue with my RRF in my 5 gallon. Most of the pads look totally healthy with constant new growth and over time, some of the pads along the chain seem to submerge themselves. This same issue also happens in the jar that I have sitting in a full sun window with no water movement. Only differences is that the full sun jar growth is way faster and redder than the tank due to the amount of light. 

I resolve this through plucking the submerged pads off of the chains of RRF every other water change.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

kaldurak said:


> I get a similar issue with my RRF in my 5 gallon. Most of the pads look totally healthy with constant new growth and over time, some of the pads along the chain seem to submerge themselves. This same issue also happens in the jar that I have sitting in a full sun window with no water movement. Only differences is that the full sun jar growth is way faster and redder than the tank due to the amount of light.
> 
> I resolve this through plucking the submerged pads off of the chains of RRF every other water change.


Interesting, hadn't thought of that. So your thinking is the ones that stay under too long get weak and start to fall apart or are easy prey for snails? Why do you think the ones in the jar with no water movement also have the issue? I know they do better with less surface movement.


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## kaldurak (May 2, 2010)

houseofcards said:


> kaldurak said:
> 
> 
> > I get a similar issue with my RRF in my 5 gallon. Most of the pads look totally healthy with constant new growth and over time, some of the pads along the chain seem to submerge themselves. This same issue also happens in the jar that I have sitting in a full sun window with no water movement. Only differences is that the full sun jar growth is way faster and redder than the tank due to the amount of light.
> ...


Maybe it's just the natural growing pattern of the plant. New growth always is up and out of the water surface and old growth slowly submerges. I thought it was caused by surface agitation, but seeing it in my "test" jar with no movement disputes that idea for me.both the tank and jar RRF get submerging pads at equal rates as new pads grow.


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## tamsin (Jan 12, 2011)

I would guess you are a bit short on one or more of the mobile nutrients (NPK) and it's stealing them from the old leaves to grow new ones.


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## kaldurak (May 2, 2010)

tamsin said:


> I would guess you are a bit short on one or more of the mobile nutrients (NPK) and it's stealing them from the old leaves to grow new ones.


I dose so much fert into my tanks it's scary. And the jar has osmocote+ and soil, so it's loaded, too.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

kaldurak said:


> Maybe it's just the natural growing pattern of the plant...


No, I don't think so, I have it in another tank and all the leaves are good. 



tamsin said:


> I would guess you are a bit short on one or more of the mobile nutrients (NPK) and it's stealing them from the old leaves to grow new ones.


I guess it can't hurt to try and increase macros. I already dose pretty high as well, but might as well try it.


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## JAMarlow (Jan 16, 2018)

stussy28 said:


> How often are you dosing thrive? Floaters are nutrient hogs


I've been dosing twice a week since I'd heard they were nutrient hogs. Maybe I should try increasing the frequency, just to see what happens.


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## tamsin (Jan 12, 2011)

They have access to all the CO2 they could want from the air, so if you are short on anything nut wise, floaters show it first as that's all that limits them.

Here are a couple of pictures above/below to show growth. If you let them grow crazy they'll build quite a mound above water as they grow over each other. They shouldn't sink at all.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

@tamsin

Those look good. What kind of light are you running? Just curious are you dosing extra FE?


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## tamsin (Jan 12, 2011)

TMC Grobeam 600. The pictures are from a year or so ago, don't have them at the moment. I think ferts at the time was Tropica Specialised (an all-in-one fert), didn't dose anything extra. 

The colour was all from the light. Any tucked out the way were a healthy green, but directly under the light the pink/red. When they were dense enough not to move about it would literally have a block of reddest ones in the shape of the light in the middle - don't have a picture that shows it unfortunately. You can pop them in a bowl on the window sill and you'll see how red they can get in bright light.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

Mine get the nice red roots (thus the name), but the leaves are mostly green, but usually very healthy. I do believe something is causing the leaf in one tank to get weak and submerge where it becomes food for snails.


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## kaldurak (May 2, 2010)

tamsin said:


> They have access to all the CO2 they could want from the air, so if you are short on anything nut wise, floaters show it first as that's all that limits them.
> 
> Here are a couple of pictures above/below to show growth. If you let them grow crazy they'll build quite a mound above water as they grow over each other. They shouldn't sink at all.


Oh sweet! Thanks for the info about how this plant can really look!


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## JAMarlow (Jan 16, 2018)

Thanks for all the info and pictures, everyone! I still have a few floaters surviving, looking red, putting on new leaves, but roots continue to disappear. Added more fertilizer today. We'll see how they fare.


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## JAMarlow (Jan 16, 2018)

A quick update: The few red root floaters that survived kinda just held on. I had put them in a floating air-tube ring to keep them from getting jostled too much by the sponge filter.

Once in a while a leaf or two would rot away and I would see it at the bottom...

And then BOOM!

Overnight they started multiplying!

And multiplying, and multiplying. Seriously. It's like I blinked and suddenly they are blocking out too much light!

Meanwhile, I have really nice red roots and leaves tinged with red. All without changing anything else.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

tamsin said:


> I would guess you are a bit short on one or more of the mobile nutrients (NPK) and it's stealing them from the old leaves to grow new ones.


Noticed a recovery by increasing macros. So I believe you were correct.


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## Alvliu (Jan 20, 2020)

My red root floaters are turning pale and their roots aren't the color they should be. Frankly, I added some crushed iron supplements to them for a "fertilizer". I've also been giving them a lot of sunlight. I hope they live.


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## Desert Pupfish (May 6, 2019)

Alvliu said:


> My red root floaters are turning pale and their roots aren't the color they should be. Frankly, I added some crushed iron supplements to them for a "fertilizer". I've also been giving them a lot of sunlight. I hope they live.


How much light are they getting? As others have noted previously in this thread you've revived, they only turn red if they're getting enough light. Sunlight should definitely help them grow. Are you fertilizing also? How long have you had them?


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## Surf (Jun 13, 2017)

> Yep, I've been dosing with Thrive.


 
keep in mind that most fertilizes done have calcium a necessary macro nutrient. However that said if you live in Arizona I would suspect your tap water would've enough calcium. Are you using RO water instead? RO water doesn't have any calcium. Do you happen to know the GH of your water source and the GH of your tank? The GH test tells you the combined level of calcium and magnesium in the water. So if the number is high your should have enough. 

However some cases most of the GH is calcium with minimal to no Magnesium. Magnesium is a mobil nutrient. And in the case off a magnesium deficiency plants will typically strip old leaves of magnesium and uses it to grow new leaves. The old leaves striped of Mg then die and fall off the plant or melt away. Now thrive does have magnesium. However it it more iron in it than magnesium. Typically plants need more magnesium than phosphate, sulfur and iron. 

So it is possible you are deficient in Magnesium, You could add Epsom salt (magnesium sulfate) to your tank to increase magnesium levels. You can buy it at many stores. Prior to your purchase make sure that is oure with no perfumes, dies or other addative that might be harmful. You can use this nutrient calculator to determine how much to add to your tank:

Some people would suggest adding enough to increase the water hardness (GH) by one or two degree GH. But I don't think you need that much magnesium sulfate to have a posititive effect if you have a Mg deficiency. I think a concentration of 10ppm might tell you if it is a magnesium deficiency. You can also use the nutrient calculator to see how much of the nutrients your dose is providing to your tank. To do this select premixed and Thrive. Then sellect result ofmy dose. 

Another issue that could be effecting your plant is water changes and how frequently you dose fertilizer. Many people do a water change once a week. I replace 50% of my tank water once a week. If you don't do a water change once a week you could deplete your tank water of a scarce nutrient that mainly comes from your water source instead of your fertilizer. Also if you should dose fertilizer at least once per week. If you don't you could be running out of a nutrient before your next water change. The fact that you have gotten better results with an increase in your fertilizer dose is consistent with a nutrient deficiency in your tank.


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