# Wanting to nuke tank



## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

My tank has been blacked out for two days co2 cranked up to the max I've water changed. I manually cleaned everything as the slimy hair algae won't stop spreading. It's covered every square inch of the tank in 2 days. The substrate is completley covered. 

Can I use a algaecide one time to clear it all out? Will it kill jungle val or stem plants?

It's only a plant only tank in its first week of cycling amazonia.


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## dzega (Apr 22, 2013)

1. Pics to id the algae .


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

It's slimy long strands and easily dislodges.
It's all over everything. I've again hand wiped down the glass and plants substrate is hard to do it amazonia. I'm doing another water changes and putting more plants in the tank plus duck weed to help suck up any excess nutrients.


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## Jester946 (Mar 30, 2013)

Really just need more information on the tank to make a call.

What are you water parameters? What fert dosing are you doing? What lights? Photo period time frame?


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

The substrate is ada amazonia and it's the fist 5 days of cycling the substrate. So it's all over the place. I had light cycle at 12 hrs. It's 2 t5ho Geissmann midday and flora bulbs. Co2 is cranked up as much as it'll go. It's pressurized and was at 3 bps now it's a solid stream. 

I'm dropped light period down to 6 hours. 
I haven't started dosing yet I assumed the amazonia would provide everything the plants needed for a few weeks.


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## jasa73 (Jun 3, 2007)

That could be BGA (cyanbacteria) which is not uncommon in newly set up tanks. I take it is is newly set up? I'm presently combating it myself as I just set up a new tank, but I think im getting the handle on it. I'm making sure i have good circulation, my c02 is cranked and im doing water changes. Ive read that BGA can be caused by lots of dissolved organic solids which is what i know the cause of my outbreak. I'm now down to a few patches which im spot treating with hydrogen peroxide and them massive water changes. I've also heavily planted and made sure i have good water circulation. I council patience and keep up what youre doing. I think your tank just needs to get stabilized. Do you mean by "light cycle at 12 hours" that you have your lights on for 12 hours...thats a really long time.


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

After water change stats. 

Ammonia 4ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrate 20ppm

I cleaned as much of the algae as I could. Did a water change sucked up as much of the algae as I could. The substrate is covered pretty well though. I added more plants. 

Should I black out the tank completley or should I just cut light period down to 2 or 3 hours? 
Should I leave co2 running full tilt?

There are no fish no inverts in the tank.


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## dzega (Apr 22, 2013)

take the picture of of algae closeup in tank(looks like green hair algae to me but not sure).
if its first week after tank set up, dont freak out. adding duck weed to tank is a good idea.

all kind of algae is common in new setups. and it is more than common when using fertile substrate (dirt or amazonia for example). wait it out or add some algecide half the recomended dose. dont black out the tank, it hurts your plants. reduce photoperiod to 6h or reduce lightning intensity by installing paper sheet between light source and tank


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## HUNTER (Sep 4, 2012)

Lighting hours is too long, 8 hours is more than sufficient. I have mine only for 6 hours and it making a difference in controlling algae, even BBA.


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

I appreciate the tips. 

I'll put light at 6 hrs a day to start. 

What about the co2? Should I leave it running full tilt still?


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## Jester946 (Mar 30, 2013)

ChadKruger said:


> The substrate is ada amazonia and it's the fist 5 days of cycling the substrate. So it's all over the place. I had light cycle at 12 hrs. It's 2 t5ho Geissmann midday and flora bulbs. Co2 is cranked up as much as it'll go. It's pressurized and was at 3 bps now it's a solid stream.
> 
> I'm dropped light period down to 6 hours.
> I haven't started dosing yet I assumed the amazonia would provide everything the plants needed for a few weeks.



You assumed wrong. Start ferts now, and also keep your photo period at the 6 hour mark. 

Your high ammonia is your problem - this is feeding the algae and your plants - because of the large amount, the algae is able to thrive. 

What size tank is this? What is your PAR at the substrate? How high is the light mount?

Cut back to 1 bulb for 6 hours, start fert dosing and leave your co2 high only when the lights are on.

there isn't any live stock beyond plants in this tank, right?


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

Jester946 said:


> You assumed wrong. Start ferts now, and also keep your photo period at the 6 hour mark.
> 
> Your high ammonia is your problem - this is feeding the algae and your plants - because of the large amount, the algae is able to thrive.
> 
> ...


I don't have the ability to do only one light. 
It's a 55g and no live stock only plants. 
I'm taking your advice and started dosing EI liquid

I don't have the par rating but it's 2 t5ho Geissmann lights 24" from substrate. I'm easily hitting highlight at substrate.


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## Subtletanks91 (May 29, 2013)

Dose it with I wanna say eurythromycin powder. Its supposed to kill it. Even peroxide will take all the oxygen away and suffocate it. I've used peroxide effectively again tons of algae. But to much will kill any bacteria built up for filtering. Its hard enough as it is to build a bio filter with amazonia due to the low ph effect


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## Jester946 (Mar 30, 2013)

ChadKruger said:


> I don't have the ability to do only one light.
> It's a 55g and no live stock only plants.
> I'm taking your advice and started dosing EI liquid
> 
> I don't have the par rating but it's 2 t5ho Geissmann lights 24" from substrate. I'm easily hitting highlight at substrate.


I'll have to sort through my PM's with hoppy and maybe some old notes - but your light is VERY intense at the substrate assuming your reflector is decent. I had the same bulbs in a cheap odysea fixture, and I was nearly 100 par at the substrate in my 55. I never got co2 right until I went with a full reactor and co2 literally CRANKED. 

That said, RAISE that light, or cut to 1 bulb. Get that light another 15 inches or so off the top of that tank.


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

Jester946 said:


> I'll have to sort through my PM's with hoppy and maybe some old notes - but your light is VERY intense at the substrate assuming your reflector is decent. I had the same bulbs in a cheap odysea fixture, and I was nearly 100 par at the substrate in my 55. I never got co2 right until I went with a full reactor and co2 literally CRANKED.
> 
> That said, RAISE that light, or cut to 1 bulb. Get that light another 15 inches or so off the top of that tank.


Yes I have good reflectors. 
Holy crap another 15"?!? I'd have to bolt it to my ceiling! 
Could I break up the photo period into 1 hour blocks?


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## Jester946 (Mar 30, 2013)

ChadKruger said:


> Yes I have good reflectors.
> Holy crap another 15"?!? I'd have to bolt it to my ceiling!
> Could I break up the photo period into 1 hour blocks?



No.

I believe on my standard 55 gallon, I had the light 10 inches above the rim of the tank. This put me at 65 par at the substrate. I had the same bulbs as you.

This is PURELY from memory - as I can't find my notes. I ran a HUGE reactor and was cranked at 8-9 BPS through it.


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## Jester946 (Mar 30, 2013)

Before I moved the light up.


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## cjstl (Mar 4, 2013)

Do you have any natural light in the room? I have a 4 gallon vase that was covered with a blanket of algae due to too much lighting and not enough circulation. I removed the light completely. It has been in relative darkness for three weeks now. Gets some bleed through light from the vase next to it, and a little natural light. The algae web is pretty much completely gone now. My three horned nerites and my mystery snail took care of it as it dissolved. I thought for sure it would kill my plants, but everything except my frogbit survived. The crypt wendtii is actually coming back, the dwarf sag is fine, the christmas moss is uncovered and enjoying life, and the java fern survived.


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

cjstl said:


> Do you have any natural light in the room? I have a 4 gallon vase that was covered with a blanket of algae due to too much lighting and not enough circulation. I removed the light completely. It has been in relative darkness for three weeks now. Gets some bleed through light from the vase next to it, and a little natural light. The algae web is pretty much completely gone now. My three horned nerites and my mystery snail took care of it as it dissolved. I thought for sure it would kill my plants, but everything except my frogbit survived. The crypt wendtii is actually coming back, the dwarf sag is fine, the christmas moss is uncovered and enjoying life, and the java fern survived.


Not much natural light at all and the tank gets 0 direct sun light. It's to the point that during the day you need lights on to read a book in the room. 

Well it's been two days since my last clean up and the algae hasn't bloomed again. It's not gone just hasn't had a huge explosion again. I had co2 cranked up so high that the tank looked like a bottle of shook soda. 
I'm going to do a water change again and see what my parameters are at. Hopefully I can drop snails and Amano shrimp in soon to clean up the left over algae


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## Jester946 (Mar 30, 2013)

ChadKruger said:


> Not much natural light at all and the tank gets 0 direct sun light. It's to the point that during the day you need lights on to read a book in the room.
> 
> Well it's been two days since my last clean up and the algae hasn't bloomed again. It's not gone just hasn't had a huge explosion again. I had co2 cranked up so high that the tank looked like a bottle of shook soda.
> I'm going to do a water change again and see what my parameters are at. Hopefully I can drop snails and Amano shrimp in soon to clean up the left over algae



Once it's cycled - plan on 15+ or so Amanos, and also oto's - they clean VERY quickly. Snails aren't bad either.


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

The algae seems to have abated a lot. Will angelfish harass amano's?

Water parameters today pre water change are 

Ammonia 4 ppm
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 40ppm


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## bluestems (Feb 7, 2012)

Nice planting job, I like the layout. In addition to the other suggestions, are you also doing to recommended water changes per ADA's guidelines (large, daily water changes the first week, every other day week 2) ? I seem to remember Frank mentioning this was key to keeping algae at bay in the beginning.


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## dzega (Apr 22, 2013)

ChadKruger said:


> Will angelfish harass amano's?


amanos take crap from nobody. except Chuck Norris maybe


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## jasa73 (Jun 3, 2007)

+1 on the water changes. If it were me, I'd be doing daily water changes. 
Looks like your substrate is still leeching ammonia. Keep it up, I know for me the biggest element that is difficult is patience. Glad to hear things are headed in the right direction.

hmmm i thought angels could eat amanos? If they can eat neons, they can certainly eat amanos.


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## ChadKruger (Mar 27, 2013)

Fish tank stats

Sunday 29 June 

Post water change

Ammonia 4ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrate 20ppm

Monday July 1 
Pre water change 
Ammonia 4 ppm
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 80 ppm

Tuesday July 2
Pre water change 
Ammonia 4 ppm
Nitrite 0 
Nitrate 160 ppm

Tuesday July 2 
Post water change
Ammonia 2 ppm
Nitrite 0 ppm
Nitrate 80 ppm

I need to pick up the amount of water changes.


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## Jester946 (Mar 30, 2013)

Do you have nitrates in your source water?


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## ced281 (Jul 6, 2012)

bluestems said:


> Nice planting job, I like the layout. In addition to the other suggestions, are you also doing to recommended water changes per ADA's guidelines (large, daily water changes the first week, every other day week 2) ? I seem to remember Frank mentioning this was key to keeping algae at bay in the beginning.


Yep, I distinctly remember Frank setting up a thread describing this method. It works 100%. I do it in all my new Amazonia tank setups and I rarely run into algae problems. When I do it's because I got lazy and skipped a water change.
I think the key principle is holding the algae at bay until your plants have rooted and can absorb nutrients from the soil and water column at maximal rate to counter the algae growth. Then you just leave it up to your algae eaters to clean up the rest.


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## ced281 (Jul 6, 2012)

jasa73 said:


> +1 on the water changes. If it were me, I'd be doing daily water changes.
> Looks like your substrate is still leeching ammonia. Keep it up, I know for me the biggest element that is difficult is patience. Glad to hear things are headed in the right direction.
> 
> hmmm i thought angels could eat amanos? If they can eat neons, they can certainly eat amanos.


I have kept amanos with angels on several occasions. My angels don't bother with the amanos because they are big and don't look like fish from my experience.

The amanos do get freaked however, and resort to nocturnal scavenging when there are big angel fish around though... This can result in them wasting away since they have less time to scavenge for food, etc. They should be fine as long as they have plenty of cover.


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

Need to change water at rate of 60 to 70 % near daily for first few weeks using the substrate mentioned which will leach ammonia for a few weeks.(water changes will dilute)
Algae loves ammonia plus lighting.
Agree withother's on reduced lighting period ,reduced intensity,or both for a few weeks.
Good Flow to help distribute the CO2 throughout the tank.
CO2 on a couple hours before lights on to ensure plenty of gas for plants at lights on.
CO2 off one hour before lights out.
Diffuser on one end of tank ,drop checker on other end.


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## Jester946 (Mar 30, 2013)

roadmaster said:


> Need to change water at rate of 60 to 70 % near daily for first few weeks using the substrate mentioned which will leach ammonia for a few weeks.(water changes will dilute)
> Algae loves ammonia plus lighting.
> Agree withother's on reduced lighting period ,reduced intensity,or both for a few weeks.
> Good Flow to help distribute the CO2 throughout the tank.
> ...


I disagree on the water changes. Leave the water in, let the ammonia build - the bacteria will take over. Why spend all the money on amazonia, only to water change all of it's benefits away? (Ammonia gets eaten by plants, and the PH buffer is welcomed as well)

Just to reiterate, this is assuming you're starting out HEAVILY planted, and not just 6-7 stems.


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

Jester946 said:


> I disagree on the water changes. Leave the water in, let the ammonia build - the bacteria will take over. Why spend all the money on amazonia, only to water change all of it's benefits away? (Ammonia gets eaten by plants, and the PH buffer is welcomed as well)
> 
> Just to reiterate, this is assuming you're starting out HEAVILY planted, and not just 6-7 stems.


 Is not the bacteria but algae that will take over with high levels of ammonia which may or may not be taken up fast as it is being produced.
Everyone who uses this substrate and has experienced the results recommends the water changes.
Bacteria is much ado about nothing in planted tanks.


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## Jester946 (Mar 30, 2013)

roadmaster said:


> Is not the bacteria but algae that will take over with high levels of ammonia which may or may not be taken up fast as it is being produced.
> Everyone who uses this substrate and has experienced the results recommends the water changes.
> Bacteria is much ado about nothing in planted tanks.



I'll have to throw together a journal of my newest tank, and my....6th or 7th time using ADA Amazonia NEW. 

No water changes, immediately heavily planted with co2 cranked and EI dosing along with 65 par at the substrate - waited two weeks, no ammonia. Highest shown was 3ppm.

Heavily planted is the operative term.


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