# Cheap dosing pump!!



## jmelnek (Dec 20, 2004)

Good luck on that, it seems like this is very economical (does not happen very often with me and tanks). Keep us informed....

Josh


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## zapus (May 26, 2004)

You can find some specs for this pump here. Just click Products, then Aqualifter.


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## m.lemay (Jul 28, 2002)

Hey thanks for that spec page. I couldn't find the specs on it earlier. Now I need a digital timer that can be programmed in for second intervals. Any ideas?

Marcel


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## zapus (May 26, 2004)

The volume figure for the Aqualifter is given as 0.22 liters / minute and the pressure as 30" (assumable, this is inches of water column). Most positive-pressure pump specs show a curve for volume plotted against head pressure (resistance). I should think that vacuum pumps would function in a similar fashion. I'm not sure if they're saying that it pumps .22 l/m @ 30" wc or if these are maximum figures for each, but I would guess the latter. I reckon a mite of experimentation is called for. Most of the Intermatic digital timers have a minimum interval of one minute, which would be a bit much (at .22 l) unless your tank evaporates as fast as mine seems to, but the actual flow rate may be substantially lower, which in this case might be a good thing.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

An IV drip plus a solenoid is cheap.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## m.lemay (Jul 28, 2002)

1 minute seems to be the minimum on time for most timers I've seen. My75 evaporates about 3 gallons a week which is more than enough to make up for the .22liters/min.

A solenoid valve would work but then theres the problem of hiding the drip container as it has to be above the water mark. A decent solenoid valve had to be at least $20 last time I checked.

I'm gonna do some experimenting with the pump. I might also be able to regulate the flow with an airline valve to fine tune it a little. I'll let you guys know how this all pans out. At $9.99, I figured I'd give it a shot. My daily coffee habit cost more than that. :icon_bigg 

Marcel


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

This is a pretty cool idea Marcel. I look forward to the results. And IMO a little flow control (like from Aquatic Ecosystems) could be just the ticket to slowing down that flow rate.


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## BOTIA (Dec 23, 2003)

These were made for large overflows to stop air bubbles collecting in the upsdown U section thusly stopping the flow.
Botia

QUOTE=m.lemay]Check this out, its a vacuum operated pump that can be used for dosing.Tom Aqua Lifter I just ordered one to see how it works. I'll let you know. At $10 this might be the ticket.

Marcel[/QUOTE]


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## m.lemay (Jul 28, 2002)

I just got the pump, took it out of the box, and I did some very preliminary testing. It's simple to change the flow rate by simply changing how much head pressure there is. Raise the source and get more flow lower the source and get less flow. At 50" head pressure it's like a drop per second. So the 1 minute minimum timer setting won't be a problem. A kalkawaser pump it's not, this thing is really dependent on head presure to getits flow rate. A preliminary tests shows it'll pump 250ml in 6 minutes @30" head pressure. and 500ml in 12 minutes.The one nice thing about it is that it has a built in back flow preventer so that when the power cuts off, the fluid in the tube doesn't back up.

Problem #1: The verticle distance from the stand floor to the the top of the tank is 56" . At that head pressure the flow is decreased considerably.

I'm doing another test with the actual head pressure this thing is gonna see and report back.

Marcel


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## shalu (Jan 16, 2003)

Great idea. I might get a few of these if it works out for you. Is the pump noisy at all?


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## m.lemay (Jul 28, 2002)

It's about as loud as a quality air pump. Actually it sounds just like an air pump and works the same way except its made to pump water.


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## m.lemay (Jul 28, 2002)

500ml in 40 minutes at 52" head pressure, which is what my tank will typically see. I might be able to use this for topoff with a longer duration, if the pump doesn't burn out first. I'll be running some more experiments. They don't reccomend using this pump over 30"head pressure, but I think it's mainly because it doesn't pump much at that head pressure. I don't think the pump will burn out.


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## shalu (Jan 16, 2003)

I forgot, the pump is only on for a short period on timer, so noise is not a problem :icon_bigg sounds like we are going to have cheap automated aquariums soon.


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

I don't suppose there is any way to rig this in-line is there?


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## m.lemay (Jul 28, 2002)

It's not what we'd call a positive displacement pump. Back pressure in the lines would definitely affect the output. If the pressure in the lines could be deemed constant then some experimentation could reveal if this would work consistently. 

Obviously a peristaltic pump is much better on all fronts except for cost.


Marcel


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## aquaphish (Dec 20, 2002)

I constantly think of getting a dosing system for my ferts. But my issue with using a dosing system is that everytime I do dose I find the need to shake up my solutions due to settling. By use of a dosing system the solution will not be shaken which will lead me to believe that the dose will not be consistant in concentration.


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## shalu (Jan 16, 2003)

aquaphish said:


> I constantly think of getting a dosing system for my ferts. But my issue with using a dosing system is that everytime I do dose I find the need to shake up my solutions due to settling.


hmm, if you find any settlement in your solution, that means you tried to dissolve too much in the amount of water.


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## Laith (Jul 7, 2004)

plantbrain said:


> An IV drip plus a solenoid is cheap.
> 
> Regards,
> Tom Barr


Not knowing anything about IV drips, where would you put it? Don't IV drips need to be higher than the destination of the drip?


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## m.lemay (Jul 28, 2002)

Laith said:


> Not knowing anything about IV drips, where would you put it? Don't IV drips need to be higher than the destination of the drip?


yes they do, see my earlier reply.


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## m.lemay (Jul 28, 2002)

aquaphish said:


> I constantly think of getting a dosing system for my ferts. But my issue with using a dosing system is that everytime I do dose I find the need to shake up my solutions due to settling. By use of a dosing system the solution will not be shaken which will lead me to believe that the dose will not be consistant in concentration.


you can keep it agitated by keeping an airstone going in the resevoir.


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## stcyrwm (Sep 1, 2005)

Any chance of an update on this?????

Thanks, Bill


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## m.lemay (Jul 28, 2002)

stcyrwm said:


> Any chance of an update on this?????
> 
> Thanks, Bill


Sure..... 

The pump wasn't suitable for my needs because of where I wanted to locate the pump under the stand. Locating the pump under the stand created too much head pressure rendering the pump ineffective. If the pump and reservoir could be located somewhere equal to the tank height (+ or -) this would have worked out great. 20" of head pressure is about all this little pump can take.

Marcel


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

Marcel, so something like into a sump under the stand would have worked?


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## m.lemay (Jul 28, 2002)

SCMurphy said:


> Marcel, so something like into a sump under the stand would have worked?


 Actually No, not really. Ideally the resevoir should be set next to or behind the tank because the flow rate drops off dramatically as it drops down. That's why I scrapped the idea ,because I didn't want to see the resevoir.

Maybe one of those hang on the back refugiums would work perfectly for this pump.

Sean, if you wanna borrow the pump to experiment with it, I can send it over to ya. I'm so swamped at work, that I don't have time to mess with it right now. Send me a PM.

Marcel


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## Raul-7 (Oct 17, 2003)

m.lemay said:


> you can keep it agitated by keeping an airstone going in the resevoir.


Wouldn't this oxidize the nutrients?


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## csf (Jul 10, 2003)

My thought would be to have the peristaltic pump and an air pump come on at the same time (via timer). The air stone will mix up the solution in a few seconds and the peristaltic pump would get homogenous solution after the first few seconds. If it's on for more than a few minutes, the first little bit sucked up wouldn't be a big deal.

Is there a problem with N, P, K and micro nutrients doing funny things together and oxidizing? I am planning on using Greg Watson style nutrients (basic PMDD stuff).


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## m.lemay (Jul 28, 2002)

csf said:


> Is there a problem with N, P, K and micro nutrients doing funny things together and oxidizing? I am planning on using Greg Watson style nutrients (basic PMDD stuff).


P reacts with iron and possibly other micro nutrients. As far as I know, P seems to be the only nutrient that should be dosed seperately.


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## Raul-7 (Oct 17, 2003)

But why does everyone recommend using an airstone in their dosing container. Wouldn't that lead to oxidizing?


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## csf (Jul 10, 2003)

Thanks. I'll try and track down some multi-headed peristaltic pumps to get the N, P, K and micros in different bottles. My stand is going to be full.


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## Raul-7 (Oct 17, 2003)

Why do that, just use one peristaltic pump for everything excluding PO4; then just dose PO4 manually twice a week?


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## magicmagni (Nov 7, 2003)

Yeah I've seen that pump when I was setting up my dosing system, but I was suspicious that it would not have been powerfull enough.

If anyone is interresting in a less expensive altertnative to traditional dosing pumps I have come up with something that is pretty decent. See signature.


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## csf (Jul 10, 2003)

While I haven't tried it, i figure that model airplane fuel pumps could work very well for this set-up. While I don't know if they have some oils inside to help seal things up, they are fairly cheap. Look up hooby lobby on google. They were about $20 apiece.


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## vidiots (Jun 17, 2006)

m.lemay said:


> Actually No, not really. Ideally the resevoir should be set next to or behind the tank because the flow rate drops off dramatically as it drops down. That's why I scrapped the idea ,because I didn't want to see the resevoir.
> Maybe one of those hang on the back refugiums would work perfectly for this pump.
> Sean, if you wanna borrow the pump to experiment with it, I can send it over to ya. I'm so swamped at work, that I don't have time to mess with it right now. Send me a PM.
> Marcel


I am currently using this setup. I am using plastic 1 gallon milk jugs as my reservoirs. I drilled a hole in the cap to insert a piece of rigid air line tubing and a couple of tiny holes to allow air to enter as the liquid is pumped out. To the rigid airline tubing I have attached flexible airline tubing to the pumps input. I also used another short piece of airline tubing to connect to the pumps output and go thru a hole I drilled in my sump tanks lid. 

My sump tank is a 20gallon high tank. The reservoir is sitting on the bottom of my 180gal display tank stand (so is the sump tank). The Aqua Lifter pumps is sitting on top of the sump tank's lid.

The pumps are plugged into a digital timer that can be set in 1min increments. I currently have the timer set to 2minutes per day.

From the floor of the stand to the pumps connector (the highest point) is 18". 
At this height the pumps average flow rate is 90mL per minute. The flow rate is about 20% faster when the reservoir is full, and about 20% slower when the reservoir is near empty. At this flow rate I can mix about 15days worth of fertilizer with 3 Liters of water.

I used a measuring cup and a marker to mark my reservoir in 200mL increments. This makes calibrating and refilling it easier. I used a stop watch to measure the flow rate recording it as the fluid level passed each of my volume marks.

I'm done testing it with water, and have had it hooked up with actual fertilizer in the reservoir for just a few days. So far all is working well. However to play it safe I'm only putting 5 days worth of fertilizer in the reservoir at a time and checking it daily to monitor it. After I am satisfied with it's long term reliability, I'll add more fertilizer and check on it less often.


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

Any chance of an update on this? It's something I would really like to try!


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

m.lemay said:


> 1 minute seems to be the minimum on time for most timers I've seen. My75 evaporates about 3 gallons a week which is more than enough to make up for the .22liters/min.
> 
> A solenoid valve would work but then theres the problem of hiding the drip container as it has to be above the water mark. A decent solenoid valve had to be at least $20 last time I checked.
> 
> ...


As a paramedic I have access to all of the iv stuff, so I defeated the part of having the bag above the tank by using a pressure infuser:









It takes more "finesse" to get the drip rate where you want it, but still works.


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## Manolito (Jul 5, 2007)

I am using enteral pumps that I got really cheap from an auction. Now I am running 2 of them - one for the micro nutrients and the other for the macro.

I am using a gallon milk jugs and dripping at 5 ml/hr. A gallon will last for about a month.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

garuf said:


> Any chance of an update on this? It's something I would really like to try!


There isn't much to it... it works. Do you have a specific question? 

I prefer different ways to autodose, but you should try the Aqualifter because it is pretty simple to set up.


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## Augus (Apr 7, 2008)

Wasserpest said:


> There isn't much to it... it works. Do you have a specific question?
> 
> I prefer different ways to autodose, but you should try the Aqualifter because it is pretty simple to set up.


Wasserpest, which way you perfer from all DIY?


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

For macros except P, I like to use a water pump. Compared to the AL, it mixes the solution each time it is dosed, and it is not as dependent on head pressure.

To dose P, I prefer a little test tube full of it, dissolving over time.

For micros, I think peristaltic pumps are the best choice.

That said, the Aqualifters will work just fine.


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## moogoo (Dec 7, 2007)

from what i've read w/ the 30" limit on these aqualifters, it's ability to PULL liquid is 30" limit, but it can also push the liquid quite well afterward. i ordered one and will be putting it through tests to see how to set it up w/ my new tank setup. i figured it'd be the cheapest, easiest way to autodose and auto top off. i'll have updates in my thread when it's all said and done


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## Tmos540 (May 31, 2011)

Man I have been trying to fin a way to deliver a single milliliter of liquid daily and so far, no luck at cheap prices. Any suggestions?


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## CuLan (Sep 25, 2008)

Tom Barr mentioned IV drip and solenoid.


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## gagaliya (Aug 19, 2006)

Tmos540 said:


> Man I have been trying to fin a way to deliver a single milliliter of liquid daily and so far, no luck at cheap prices. Any suggestions?


This is one of those things that trying to save some money by buying cheap will end up costing you more. It's something you will be using for a long time and the quality/precision is very important.

I would bite the bullet and get the bubble magus dosing pump, it's the best $250 i ever spent, you can probably find it even cheaper on [Ebay Link Removed] I have it setup to dose 1ml everyday before the lights come on and it's precise to the dot. You also get 3 dosing pumps in one and this will last you a long time as the only thing that needs replacing is just the tubes (1-2 years).


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## IWANNAGOFAST (Jan 14, 2008)

yeah, mine did not work out, I had it set up but the volume dispensed changes each day because the water level in the jug dropped. Probably didn't help that I was pumping the fluid like, 4 feet up into the main tank.

These would, I think, work great to dose if you were doing a sump.


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## Booger (May 17, 2004)

People have been trying for years, but there's no substitute for a peristaltic pump. I went the more expensive route with a GHL profilux as I wanted some of the extra features, but there are ways to save a few bucks without sacrificing accuracy.

You can put together a quality 2 channel setup for < $200 now. The Bulk Reef Supply peristaltic pumps have a really good reputation in the reefing community. Rig up your own dosing containers, a couple timers, and you are dosing automagically.

Youtube Video Link


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

I've used a pair on a client tank.

They have been fairly consistent once to tweak them and fiddle with the head height and run them a few times.

Careful with backflow, make sure there is an air gap at the end of line into your tank. Also, run test runs using only water, a good timer and min settings are key.

Timers often cost more than the pump.


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