# Need help with lowtech setup!



## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Welcome to TPT!

I'm afraid I have bad news about your community tank- it's really severely overstocked.

The rainbow shark and the serpaes both will outgrow a 10gal very quickly (I'd put them in at least a 30 if not 55 gal, personally) and unless you rehome them in time are very likely to become aggressive towards each other and all their other tankmates.

A common pleco can easy grow past 18" so I recommend finding someone with a pond. There really isn't a pleco species in the hobby right now that stays small enough to keep in a 10gal tank. 

As far as your lighting goes, the 15 watt flourescent bulb is just fine for a low tech 10gal setup, just stick with easy low tech plants.

The other tank would be good to set up with screw-in CFL bulbs in the 10-15 watt range (each) which will put you in the "medium light" category, and then I'd put a DIY CO2 setup on that tank, and grow your HC in that tank.

For substrate you have lots of options. A bag of Eco Complete or Flourite would be easy ways to go for about $20 and is what I'd do personally (I happen to really like Flourite black sand and that's what I've got in my own 10gal). Or you could make or get some mineralized topsoil (see the sticky at the top of the substrate forum) or some Miracle Gro organic potting soil capped with something, or just pea gravel and/or pool filter sand supplemented with root tabs, or mix and match!


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## Rubiks_Coop (Oct 1, 2010)

Thank you!!! :thumbsup:  

I've had my tank going for a few years and never have had a problem with it! =D My pleco i got really tiny and he's still pretty small, I know I'll have to get rid of him but for now I like him! =) Rainbow shark is still pretty small... I know that i will have to get rid of them once they get big but for now I'm enjoying them! 

Do i really need to do a DIY co2 set-up?  I do know how to do it and it shouldn't be that hard, the only thing I'm worried about is my plants growing like crazy and me having to trim them every couple days... =P Can I get away with that light with no co2 without having an algae bloom? Is co2 ok for the shrimp? It does seem like DIY co2 is easier and cheaper than dosing excel though! :thumbsup:

Are the plants I'm planning on good options? Any other suggestions since i might go to medium light on one?

and the substrate... How about black beauty blasting sand... have you heard of it? Do i really need to have a fertilized substrate? I've heard arguments on both sides...

TY!


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Rubiks_Coop said:


> Do i really need to do a DIY co2 set-up?  I do know how to do it and it shouldn't be that hard, the only thing I'm worried about is my plants growing like crazy and me having to trim them every couple days... =P Can I get away with that light with no co2 without having an algae bloom? Is co2 ok for the shrimp? It does seem like DIY co2 is easier and cheaper than dosing excel though! :thumbsup:


Light is what drives plant growth rates, so if you don't want your plants to grow as quickly I'd go with less lighting over the tank with CFL spirals. You could put lower wattage bulbs in there or switch over to a 15 watt T8 like the first 10gal.



> Are the plants I'm planning on good options? Any other suggestions since i might go to medium light on one?


If you stick with medium light and CO2 on the 2nd tank this really opens a lot of doors to some cool plants to try. Downoi and mini Rotalas are some of my favorites that look very cool and stay a good size. Echinodorus angustifolius 'vesuvius' would make a nice background plant and IME grows with more curls in tanks with CO2 than in tanks without.



> and the substrate... How about black beauty blasting sand... have you heard of it? Do i really need to have a fertilized substrate? I've heard arguments on both sides...


Spend some time reading through threads in the substrate forum. In truth you can make just about any aquarium-appropriate substrate work in a planted tank. There are plusses and drawbacks to every substrate, so substrate choice really boils down to deciding which factors are most important to you:

Cost
Aesthetics, like color
Nutrient content
Ease of use (prep time, cycling needed, etc)
Availability


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Except for the Marselia Quadrifolia and HC and thick you have made a good selection. How about xmas moss instead for ground cover. You might also look at the swap shop at this forum. Occasionally people give things away for shipping cost.

As for the substrate I feel it depends on the type of plants you have. The cryypts like iron which can be supplied with API fert tabs.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Opps got posted 2xs


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## Rubiks_Coop (Oct 1, 2010)

> Except for the Marselia Quadrifolia and HC and thick you have made a good selection. How about xmas moss instead for ground cover.


I read that the Marselia Quadrifolia will withstand low light, it might not grow fast but eventually it will fill in... also about HC did you see the link about the guy that grew HC in the low tech setup in my post? about the Christmas moss, not sure... i do want to do the moss backdrop but i dont know about making it a carpet too, i'd rather go with something smaller and tighter... :icon_lol:

Oh and about the iron, i've read you can put iron nails in the substrate and that will provide, is that true?

TY!


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Marselia minuta does much better in low light than M. quadrifolia.

I personally wouldn't want a nail rusting in my tank... sounds like an easy way to discolor your water and give someone tetanus if their booster isn't up to date...


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## Rubiks_Coop (Oct 1, 2010)

> Marselia minuta does much better in low light than M. quadrifolia.


Really? Wow, everywhere I've read said the opposite!



> I personally wouldn't want a nail rusting in my tank... sounds like an easy way to discolor your water and give someone tetanus if their booster isn't up to date...


=P I agree, It does sound like a good idea ... and yes it could discolor the water... (not worried about tetanus so much... =P ) sounds like someone with a extreme DIY... xD


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

lauraleellbp said:


> Marselia minuta does much better in low light than M. quadrifolia.
> 
> I personally wouldn't want a nail rusting in my tank... sounds like an easy way to discolor your water and give someone tetanus if their booster isn't up to date...


Well I had Marselia minuta in my 29 gallon tank with low light and it didn't survive. It is 18 in high so perhaps in a 10 gallon tank it do better.

I tried the nail theory! I believe it releases iron to slowly to make a difference. Found organic charcoal is a good source of iron.


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## Clint (Oct 7, 2010)

Rubiks_Coop said:


> Thank you!!! :thumbsup:
> 
> and the substrate... How about black beauty blasting sand... have you heard of it? Do i really need to have a fertilized substrate? I've heard arguments on both sides...
> 
> TY!


you should look up "estes ultra reef marine sand" it comes in many colors and isn't sharp edged like the blasting sand. It's a man made sand and totally inert so you'd still have to add something for your plants to feed on below it.

It costs about $5 a 5lb bag(i can only find white and black locally), but you never have to worry about any wear and tear on your bottom feeders. It also doesn't pack down like other sands I've used. I've had it in my large goldfish tank for almost a year now and am very happy with it. It has a larger grain size for sand, kinda like a micro gravel or something.


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## Rubiks_Coop (Oct 1, 2010)

I think i'm going to go with Activ-Flora black... there's a guy on Craigslist who has some for sale $20 for a 16 pound bag or somethin like that! I'm really going to get this project going as soon as I get back from my big trip!


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## Rubiks_Coop (Oct 1, 2010)

Ok, I'm back from my trip and I'm getting ready to set up the tank!... =D So, Activ-Flora doesn't sound that bad, just sounds like you must rinse... How about Onyx Sand by Seachem? I haven't really found to much about it. I was looking into the Fluval Shrimp Stratum at my LFS till i saw it was about $30 for a smallish bag... 0.o  I want to go as cheap as possible, does anyone have any other ideas for a cheap substrate?


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Rubiks_Coop said:


> I want to go as cheap as possible, does anyone have any other ideas for a cheap substrate?


Yeh, I am into cheap as possible. 
Cheapest substrate is to get:
1st layer sphagnum moss. It provides Co2 and helps lower ph. If ph is low use reptile coconut bark.

2nd layer top soil without manure and ferts. I use Scotts top soil and sift out the mulch. Read someone used top soil from True Value hardware store that had little mulch. Depending on your gh and plants you may want to add potassium sulfate and calcium sulfate to the top soil or get API root tabs. I prefer the API root tabs for they contain iron.

3rd layer gravel 3mm or sand. River sand or pool filter sand has worked the best for me. Pool filter sand I got form Lowe's. River sand is from a landscaping company. Both types of sand only had to rinse 1x. River sand I sift out the bigger particles.

Sphagnum moss or reptile coconut bark $3
Top soil $3
API root tabs 6.27
Sand $3
Total $9 to $15.00


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## Rubiks_Coop (Oct 1, 2010)

Wow, that seems like a great idea!  The only thing is that by the time I do that to a 10g it might almost be more of a pain and hassle than just getting a bag of the stuff for plants. But I do like the idea! So you stick the tabs under every plant? or randomly around the substrate? I'm looking for a black substrate, so that would rule out river sand and pool filter sand right? I would love river sand in a regular tank, but this would be for a shrimp tank and I like black substrates! =) Sorry, I'm really a newbie!


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Rubiks_Coop said:


> So you stick the tabs under every plant? or randomly around the substrate?
> I'm looking for a black substrate


The red plants need a lot of nutrients to maintain their color, thus I would 1/2 root tab under each red plant. 

Then cheapest thing to do is to get some top soil and put black sand over it. A 5lb is $7.


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## Rubiks_Coop (Oct 1, 2010)

Black sand specifically for tanks, or just regular old black sand from a Home Depot etc...?  I need to go to HD and see what they have! =) About the tabs, so half under each red plant and the rest just scattered? how many in a 10g?  Thanks for hanging in there with my Hilde! =D I think i'm going to start a journal once i start! =)


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## Rubiks_Coop (Oct 1, 2010)

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/swap-n-shop/124729-fs-rootmedic-complete-clearance-3-18-a.html Ahh... I think I'll get some of those... Experiences with them?


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Rubiks_Coop said:


> Black sand specifically for tanks, or just regular old black sand from a Home Depot etc...?
> 
> so half under each red plant and the rest just scattered?


Tahitian moon sand at Pet Smart.

Just 1/2 under the plants. For instructions says, "1 tablet for each 30 square inches of gravel surface.


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## Rubiks_Coop (Oct 1, 2010)

Ok, I love German Rams, Could I put one in my community tank? The betta died and I'm selling the serpae tetras because I don't like them as much as I would like other fish. I don't know if I will keep the rainbow shark either. I want to make this tank an Endler, and CPD tank, and I'll keep the couple neons that are in there, but it needs something big. Would it be OK to put a Ram in there? I don't want it or the others to die. =)


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

No, I would not keep a Ram in less than a 20gal tank.

I'd stick with the Endlers and CPDs.

The rainbow shark definitely needs to be rehomed, they can grow more than 6" and are fairly territorial.


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