# My 240gal square tank journal: Take 2!



## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

I have been planning a large tank in the 240 to 400 gal range for about six months now. During that time I had contacted just about every custom acrylic tank builder I could find on the net to get quotes. I also spent ALOT of time on ReefCentral looking in the 'For Sale' section and reading the journals in the 'Large Reef Tank' section. 

I had originally planned to get an 8ft long tank and finish a room in my basement to house it. Then about 2 weeks ago I stumbled upon a 48" x 48" x 25.5" acrylic tank for sale 10 minutes from my house. The tank was brand new, still in the shipping crate. After a little negotiating, we agreed on a price and I picked up the tank Nov 23rd. With this square tank I have decided to put it in my first floor den. I will be reinforcing the floors to handle roughy 2800 lbs this thing will weigh.

Heres a run down of what the setup will consist of:

*Tank:*
48"x48"x25.5" acrylic tank made by http://www.envisionacrylics.com/. The tank is made of 1" thick acrylic on the front, sides, and the the top brace. It has a 3/4" thick back panel and 1/2" thick bottom panel. The overflow box is 24"x5" and drilled for two 1.5" bulkheads. The top is completely open except for the 3" wide eurobrace.



























*Lighting*:
I have three 175w Hamilton MH bell pendants. May try and only use two if I can get them up high enough over the tank to get decent light coverage.

*Filtration*:
The tank will be filtered by a full Pentair Lifegard setup which will consist of a triple mechanical module, two triple chemical modules, a triple heater module, and a 40w UV module. I picked up all but the heater module used on eBay for a total of $100 shipped. I have two Pan World 100PX-X pumps that I got with the tank. Not sure if I'll be able to use them with the Pentair modules or not. Still a BIG gray area.

*CO2*:
I will be using a 20lb CO2 tank with Milwaukee regulator and a mazzei venturi to dissolve the CO2. 

*Substrate*:
I have 4 bags of charcoal Soil Master Select.

*Hardscape*:
I have purchased a large quantity of Manzanita from Badcopnofishtank on this forum that is currently soaking in a 55gal barrel. I also hope to buy some Seiryu stone (or something with a similar look) in the near future. My plan right now is for a planted peninsula that would come out from the overflow box and there would be about 1ft of open space around the 3 sides. That may all change when I get further along though.

*Fauna*:
I had originally planned on making this a discus tank, but now I think I'm going to go with angels, possibly Altums if I can find them. I also want to have around 10 German blue rams, a large school of rummynose tetras, and some cories and maybe dwarf crayfish to keep the bottom clean. I'm definitely open to suggestions on what to stock this thing with though. Let me know what you would do.


Well that's all I can think of right now.

I'm open to any and all suggestions as the build progresses. I'd love to hear your feedback, whether it be positive or negative. Fire away with your questions as well. I'll do my best to answer them.

Thanks for looking and hope you all enjoy the build.

Greg


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## tropicalfish (Mar 29, 2007)

Oh it's a lovely looking tank!

How are you going to reinforce the floors?


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## Nano Nano (Oct 18, 2007)

*drools* Can't wait to see it set up!


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## mrkookm (Apr 4, 2007)

...........


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## JenThePlantGeek (Mar 27, 2006)

Wowza! A great challenge and a super unique footprint - what a find! You can do ENDLESS things with a tank like that, the hard part is deciding where to start 

Subscribed roud:


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## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

Tropicalfish: To reinforce the floors I was planning to double up all the floor joists and then install 2x10's running perpendicular to the existing joists. Then I'll use four metal posts running from the 2x10's to the floor at each corner.

mrkookm: Sorry, the pump should have been listed as a 100PX-X. Fixed my original post. The pump and filtration is still a BIG gray area right now. I bought the Pentair modules before I found the tank. The guy I bought the tank from basically gave me the pumps for free. I know that one will not work to power all the modules. I thought of breaking the modules up and using both pumps or more than likely just buy a better/bigger pump and sell the Pan Worlds. Have alot of research still to do in this area.

Anyone using the Pentair modules? Whats your setup and what pump are you using?

Jen: Your right about the endless possibilites and the where to start statement. Since I had originally planned an 8ft long tank, this new footprint has completely thrown me for a loop. First step is getting the stand built and then hopefully things will start to fall in place a little. Alot of research and work, but it should be fun!

Greg


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## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

Ok...I need some advice on how to plumb the tank using the internal overflow and the Pentair filter modules.

I am researching different types of standpipes (Durso, Stockman, etc) and am getting confused on how they apply to a closed system like I would have using the Pentair modules. With the Durso standpipes, a hole is drilled in the cap on top to adjust the amount of flow through the pipe to match the amount of water being pumped out of the sump. I also understand the idea is to maintain a high water level in the overflow to minimize the noise associated with the water falling into it.

With the Pentair modules I will be using, I think I really only need a pipe to use to siphon the water out of the overflow (no flow control required). Can I just use a Durso style standpipe without drilling the hole in the top? Again, I would keep the water level as high as possible to limit the noise.

The other issue I have is how to deal with the return and get enough flow throughout the tank. I am trying to keep all the plumbing concealed within the overflow and avoid having to drill any holes in the bottom of the tank if possible. I guess my initial plan is to attach a DIY pvc manifold to the 2nd bulkhead from which I would run loc-line to return nozzels mounted thru holes drilled in the overflow box. That way I could adjust the nozzles to different areas of the tank. Hope that makes sense (probably doesn't....lol).

Anyways...any advice on how to handle the plumbing on this thing would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Greg


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## tropicalfish (Mar 29, 2007)

I think Aquaman's 110 gallon topic has some very good pictures of his overflow setup.


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## Matthew_Machine (Oct 12, 2003)

:drool: This is going to be amazing. I hope to learn a lot from watching this progress.


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

Are you doing a sump or a closed loop system?

Sweet find, lotza possibilities! :thumbsup:


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## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

Naja002 said:


> Are you doing a sump or a closed loop system?


It will be a closed loop with Pentair Lifegard modules.


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

Ok, that's what I thought, but somewhere I got the impression that there might be a sump involved here.

I may be wrong, but I don't think on a closed loop system--you need any standpipes, or even over-flows for that matter. Its kind of like a fancy canister filter is all. The flow will reach a flow equilibrium in and out--as long as there's enough water in the system--the out portion shouldn't suck air or make any noise.

At power off---everything is just going to come to a stand still just like with a canister filter. Power on, flow equilibrium and its back in business.

Anybody feel free to tell me what I missing.......


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## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

Naja002: Thanks for the response. I know you don't need overflows, but I have a built in overflow in the tank and I am trying to figure out how to best plumb the tank to make use of it. I need to draw water out of the overflow into the closed loop and my thinking was that I would still need a standpipe in order to keep the water level high enough in the overflow to keep the system quiet.

Here's a picture from the back of the tank showing the overflow setup:









My thinking was to use a standpipe like the one shown that had its inlet 1 to 2 inches below the slots in the overflow. Then I would use the other bulkhead as the return and use a manifold to direct water to different nozzles mounted on the overflow box. The manifold would be concealed inside the overflow box.


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

Hi Greg,

Basically, you just need to put a strainer on the drain bulkhead (yep, way down there!) and keep the water quantity in the system up to keep the overflow full. Depending on the power of the loop--it may create a vortex and if everything is too powerful it may make noise. But I don't see why you would want/need a setup _that_ powerful.

Just think of it as a big fancy canister filter.....:thumbsup:


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## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

OK....I get it now. Was making this all more complicated than it needs to be. The idea of the standpipe is to keep the water level in the overflow high when using a sump. Since my system would be a closed loop the water level would be dependent on how much water I kept in the system and thus would be as high as I wanted it to be. 

Thinking of it as a fancy canister filter makes sense. Thanks for clearing that up...lol.

As you can already probably tell, I will be working through all my problems in this thread as well as sharing all my mistakes. Don't want to hide anything. Hopefully it will help others avoid the mistakes I make in this process. :thumbsup:


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

Bingo, you got it. With the standpipe there's only going to be 1-2" of water v. 20" with a strainer--so with the standpipe it will be much easier for the system to start sucking air--which you definitely don't want, plus it makes all the racket.

One problem with the closed loop and built in overflow is that you will need to watch your water level. Evaporation is going to show in the overflow. Too much and the system will start sucking air. Shouldn't be a big problem on a tank that size, but its good to know in advance! :thumbsup: 

HTH


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## aquaman3000 (Oct 21, 2006)

> Anyone using the Pentair modules? Whats your setup and what pump are you using?


I am using a Pentair module, although my aquarium is considerably smaller at 110 gallons. I use a Poseidon PS2 pump. There seems to be considerable head loss through the unit, so plan accordingly. There is a link to my setup in my signature with entensive photos.

I would recommend using a sump, but if you are going to do a true closed loop, make sure you have a full proof way to preload the pump intake, otherwise you are going to severely shorten the pump life at the very least. As Naja002 mentioned, if you are going to use the overflows to preload the pump, evaporation will be a large concern. In my much smaller system, I can see multiple gallons of water evaporation per day. If that water volume is coming out of your overflow only, I expect you will have to be adding water regularly, or have something automated to do so.

Very nice aquarium btw!


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## jinx© (Oct 17, 2007)

Glad to see you decided on the cube :thumbsup:

I'm not sure how far you are from 7 Caves (Bainbridge area if I remember right) but I went there a few times and there is some local stone that is fabulous looking. (I grew up in the Cincinnati area)


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## bgoodwins (May 3, 2007)

Something you need to be cognizant of when you're buying a pump is energy consumption. The wrong pump can cost you $40-50 a MONTH more than a better sized pump (smaller) that is more efficient. The pump should be the last thing you purchase after calculating head loss from gravity and head loss from all your filtration components and friction loss form the piping.


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## tropicalfish (Mar 29, 2007)

Another question about your floors...
Is this on the ground floor? If it is, I don't see how there is a need to reinforce the floors...
Because my house is directly on the foundation... I don't see how that can be reinforced.


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## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

Doesnt sound like he is on a concrete slab, maybe you missed his earlier reply:


gsd78 said:


> Tropicalfish: To reinforce the floors I was planning to double up all the floor joists and then install 2x10's running perpendicular to the existing joists. Then I'll use four metal posts running from the 2x10's to the floor at each corner.



-----


bgoodwins said:


> Something you need to be cognizant of when you're buying a pump is energy consumption. The wrong pump can cost you $40-50 a MONTH more than a better sized pump (smaller) that is more efficient. The pump should be the last thing you purchase after calculating head loss from gravity and head loss from all your filtration components and friction loss form the piping.


This is true, well I havent calculated out how much extra the cost will be... On my 240 I've already been through several pumps. Started cheap and kept upgrading. The other thing to be aware of is noise. Usually the truly quiet ones will cost ya a bit more. 

And about the plumbing... I've seen closed loop systems often with the reefers, but they also run sumps. The closed loops I've seen never have used an overflow so thats new to me, they run a sump with their overflow and the closed loop is separate. Not saying you can't do it, but as already said your going to have trouble maintaining water level in your overflow unless your running a continuous top off I'd wager.


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## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

tropicalfish said:


> Another question about your floors...
> Is this on the ground floor?.


No, the tank isn't going to be on the ground floor. The tank will be on the 1st floor with a basement underneath.

Regarding the filtration...I am already considering going with the sump and possibly running some of the modules inline with it. I have extra 55gal and 75gal glass aquariums, as well as a Rubbermaid 100gal stock tank sitting in the basement. I could make any of those into a sump.

Off to do some more research and planning...


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## tropicalfish (Mar 29, 2007)

Make sure to lock the cabinet doors so any little kids don't play hide and go seek underneath!!


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

Just wanted to clarify the evaporation/overflow:

If the overflow teeth are say 2" and you maintain the water level at 1/2" below the top of the overflow--then nothing is really going to change, except the water level in the aquarium itself. But once the water level reaches the bottom of the teeth--_then_--the evaporation will begin to show in the overflow.

As long as the system is drawing water out--its going to pump it back in. So, the tank water level will be maintained at the bottom of the teeth minimum. Then the evaporation will begin actually reducing the level in the overflow until the system starts sucking air.

I like sumps. I find them much more versatile as I add and subtract from the system. :thumbsup:


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## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

Decided to play around with the manzanita I had soaking and see if I could put together a decent hardscape. I still have the protective paper on the tank so I had to shoot the photos looking down on it. Far from perfect, but still pretty cool to start to see the tanks potential.

Two different angles of the same scape:


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## tropicalfish (Mar 29, 2007)

Looks great! Are you going to make the whole back black or just have the overflow black?


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## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

Yes, the entire back panel will be black. Not sure yet if I'm going to paint it or just use black contact paper or something like that.

Also, I'm hoping to get started on the stand this weekend. I'll be working on the plans for it over the next few days.


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

I looked at this and my main thought was "more wood!" It really needs it in my opinion, think Amano's big tank with the wood out the top to see what I mean, seems a shame to waste the open top potential.


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## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

^Thats true... have you thought about the top... will you do the open top look? I often wish I could have but I dont think my 240 would look as good open top, with the big black trim and many thick center braces. So I guess I'm building a huge canopy. But with yours it might look awesome open, with some wood poking up through the top, with those MH pendants suspended above.


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## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

The tank is definitely going to be open top with the suspended MH pendants. I do like the look of the wood sticking out of the tank, just not sure I have the right pieces for the look. Alot of my manzanita is smaller and branchy. I'll keep playing with it though and see what I can come up with.

Thanks for the comments.


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

Get a whole bag of bigass plastic zipties and see what you can achieve that way, you can easily create something with more height that way.


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## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

Picked up the materials to start my stand today.

Check out this link: http://www.greenwichaquaria.com/store.html. The pictures of the stands for the cube tanks are the look I'm going to try and replicate. All the trim, doors, kitchen cabinets, and living room built ins in my house are white, so this style of stand should fit in nicely. 

Pictures will be posted tomorrow when I get some progress made. I hope to get the structure of the stand done this weekend so I can get it in the room and get the tank on it. I'm going to wait until the tank is completely plumbed to skin the stand. 

Thanks for looking.

Greg


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## Dawn Haze (Feb 27, 2007)

Wow what a great look.... I will be subscribing.


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## aquaman3000 (Oct 21, 2006)

> Check out this link: http://www.greenwichaquaria.com/store.html.


I really wish I had stores like that in my area!


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## RoseHawke (Mar 10, 2004)

To heck with your tank! I want to visit that store :icon_eek: !

I'm teasing of course, but jeez, it'll make me think I'm slumming when I go to the LFS's we have around here.

On the back, you might want to use a black plastic or something rather than paint unless you are _absolutely_ certain you would never want to change it, as I can't imagine that you could remove paint from acrylic without damaging it.


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## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

Got most of the frame for the stand completed yesterday and today. I am building it to be modular because its too big to get into the room in one piece. Still kinda worried that its under built. I was originally trying to avoid putting a leg in the center if the stand, but now looking at it I'll probably add it along with a few extra braces. The fact that this thing will weigh somewhere around 2800 lbs when full still scares the heck out of me. Any opinions on how well the stand is built would be appreciated.

Here are a couple of shots of what I got done so far. 














The legs will unbolt from the top and bottom frames so that it can be carried from the basement upstairs to my den and reassembled. I had originally planned for the stand to be 34.5" tall, which would have put the top of the tank at 60". However, due to a stupid miscalculation on my part it ended up being 35.75" tall, which will put the top of the tank at 61.25". Not a big deal as I'd need a step stool to be able to reach the bottom near the center of the tank at either height.

I'll try and snap some more pictures of how the stand is constructed when I disassemble it and bring it upstairs.

Also, just for fun here is another attempt at a hardscape with the manzanita:













Getting closer to the look I'm going for. No pieces hanging out the top, but there is actually alot more hieght in the scape than is evident in the pictures.

Another update will come tomorrow.

Greg


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## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

Looks very well built. The only thing I am not sure about is like you mention, the center. I've never dealt with square tanks, especially so big, so not sure if the center needs additional bracing or not. Someone else will have to advise there. But the rest looks very solid.


> I had originally planned for the stand to be 24.5" tall, which would have put the top of the tank at 60". However, due to a stupid miscalculation on my part it ended up being 35.75" tall, which will put the top of the tank at 61.25".


Thats a pretty big miscalculation :biggrin: lol! But I prefer a bit taller stands myself, especially if your trying to put a sump and lots of equipment under it. The one I built ended up being a bit taller than I wanted too, just by a few inchs though. Its fine, just from the couch your kinda looking up at the tank and stuff swiming around the bottom you cant see.


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## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

crazy loaches said:


> Thats a pretty big miscalculation :biggrin: lol!


LOL...just a typo...meant to say 34.5" tall. Actually only off by 1.25". :hihi:

When I do any woodworking I don't work off of plans. I just have an idea in my head and kind of make things up as I go. :icon_wink I think it stems from the fact that I'm an engineer and design stuff all day at work using CAD drawings that I just like to wing it when I do my own projects. A little sense of freedom I guess...lol.


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## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

Had a pretty productive day so far. Managed to get the stand pieces upstairs into my den and got the stand assembled.

Next task was getting the tank on the stand. This was no easy task, seeing as it weighs over 300 lbs and there were only two of us. We actually ended up having to tip the tank up so that one end was resting on the front edge of the stand and the other edge was resting on the ground. Then we just slid it up and over the front edge of the stand. I gotta say that its definitely exciting to see it up on the stand. roud:

Check it out:















I still need to add an additional leg to support the center of the tank. As I mentioned before, I will be waiting until the plumbing is complete to skin the stand. I'm leaning towards only putting doors on the front face and having solid panels on the sides. My sump and all equipment will be in the basement, so I don't really need to have alot of access underneath the stand.

The top of the tank ended up 61.5" inches off the floor. I actually love the look of it being up a little higher, but I can only reach down about half way into the tank when I'm on my tip toes. Not going to be the easiest of tanks to work on, but I'm hoping that I can get some sort of scaffolding about 4ft long to use when I need to do any maintenance on the tank. That way I can just move it to whatever side of the tank I need to and have full access to that side without having to move a step stool around.

Next step will be reinforcing the floors and painting the den a more neutral color. I'm thinking about painting both the walls and ceiling a sky blue color to make the room have a natural feel to it. Not 100% sure yet though.

Thanks for taking a look. :thumbsup:


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

aquaman3000 said:


> I really wish I had stores like that in my area!


wow...very impressive...I totally agree. Now THAT is how an aquatics store should look like...


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

Love the tank. Can't wait to see it planted. 
Any further idea's on the scape?


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

garuf said:


> Love the tank. Can't wait to see it planted.
> Any further idea's on the scape?


oh...good question. Whatever those plans are I'm sure they're going to involve large sums of $$!! lol. I can't wait to see this monster planted too!


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

48x48... awesome


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## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

garuf said:


> Love the tank. Can't wait to see it planted.
> Any further idea's on the scape?


Haven't really put much thought into the scape at this point. Although, the further I get into this project the more I'm leaning towards making this as low maintenance of a tank as possible. Limiting the number of stems plants and keeping the photoperiod pretty short will hopefully help. 

My focus right now is getting the plumbing and sump for the tank figured out. I am determined to set up this tank so that there is absolutely no visible plumbing or equipment. The main problem I'm having is what to do with the return lines. What I have decided to do is drill the overflow box and mount jacuzzi style bulkhead nozzles in it.These are the ones I ended up purchasing, but in black: http://www.customaquatic.com/custom...sp?descriptionlong=PF-HR10-3200WHT&Submit3=GO. They are a slip fit for 1" pvc and have a 5/8" diameter rotating nozzle.

I was thinking about mounting four of them on the front face of the overflow. My concern is how much flow I'll actually get out of them and if it will be enough to get sufficient water movement throughout the entire tank. The tank is currently drilled for two 1-1/2" bulkheads in the overflow. If I were to use just one for the drain, I would be drawing about 1300gph out of the tank, which I don't think wil be enough. Using both, I would draw about 2500gph. I got those numbers from the drain/overflow calculator found here: http://www.aquariumpros.ca/modules.php?name=Overflow_Drain_Calculator. If I did use both, I would drill the tank for two 1" bulkheads inside the overflow to use as returns. I would then hook up two nozzles to each of the returns. My hope is that I could get around 500gph out of each nozzle with this setup.

Based on that, the pump I'm planning to purchase is a Sequence Reeflo Barracuda. It has the following pump curve:







I have calculated that I'll have about a 15ft head, which would give me about 2000gph pumped back into the tank.

For a sump I am planning to use a 100gal Rubbermaid stock tank. I plan to glue in partitions and use mostly foam and lava rock as my biomedia. Still need to work out the exact details on how it will be setup. More details to follow later.

Any input on this setup would be much appreciated.


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## sNApple (Nov 6, 2005)

wow nice tank!


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## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

cubes are always amaze me. it will be hard to set this tank (3 view), but it will be amazing.

the height is fine IMO. i have a 48~50 inches high tank from the floor and it's a delight seeing it from the top while standing (i'm only 5'10" lol).


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## MarkTheShark (Nov 24, 2007)

Impressive tank, I am jealous! lol

It looks like it would be a lot of fun aquascaping this tank.

Do you have any ideas as to what fish you are going to house in this beauty?


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

Wow! 100gallons of filtration thats Monsterous!
Low maintainance idea is good, Go for anubias and bolbitis and ferns and mosses. you'll need stem's initially though to help prevent algase getting a foothold these can then be slowly removed. 48" x 48" really is enourmous.


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## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

MarkTheShark said:


> Do you have any ideas as to what fish you are going to house in this beauty?


At this point the plan is still silver angels(maybe altums) as the main feature with about 10-15 german blue rams, a large school of rummynose tetras, and some cories. Would like to try some dwarf crayfish as well. I still haven't completely ruled out discus, but I have done them in the past and I'm not sure I'm up for the extra work and expense involved at this point. Maybe in the future though. 

Certainly open to any suggestions on stocking. How would you guys stock this thing?


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## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

garuf said:


> Wow! 100gallons of filtration thats Monsterous!


The sump will be in my basement just below the tank with all the plumbing routed down through the floor. The idea behind using the 100gal Rubbermaid stock tank is to make water changes really easy. What I will be able to do is turn off the return pump, drain the tank until the sump is full and then close the ball valve on the drain line(s). I can then open a valve to drain the sump. I have two 55gal storage tanks that will be elevated above the sump that will store aged and heated water (probably a 50/50 mix of RO and tap). I will be able to simply open a valve and gravity drain the two barrels into the sump to refill it. Should make for a quick and easy 100 gal water change. :thumbsup:


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## tropicalfish (Mar 29, 2007)

Are you going to reinforce your rubbermaid sump?


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## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

> Are you going to reinforce your rubbermaid sump?


Nope...won't need to be reinforced. It's a 100gal commercial stock tank like this: http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/(c...uctdetails.aspx?sku=7001746&source=GoogleBase. Its plenty strong enough. Lots of saltwater reef guys use these as sumps, some of them up to 300gal in size, without any problems.


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## narhay (Feb 28, 2007)

Is this tank from 'mattyice'?


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## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

narhay said:


> Is this tank from 'mattyice'?


Yes it is.


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## natx (Jun 6, 2006)

gsd78 said:


> Nope...won't need to be reinforced. It's a 100gal commercial stock tank like this: http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/(c...uctdetails.aspx?sku=7001746&source=GoogleBase. Its plenty strong enough. Lots of saltwater reef guys use these as sumps, some of them up to 300gal in size, without any problems.


Yeah, turtle keepers use these quite often as well.


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## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

Looks great so far! And so far I am pretty happy with the Sequence Reeflo's, so I am thinking that pump you picked will rock.


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## khoile (Jan 27, 2005)

I haven't gone through all the posts in the thread yet, so I don't know if you prefer a sump or not. However in case you don't want a sump, but need to use the overflow, I saw at my LFS they stuffed their overflow with foam/floss all the way to the top. Essentially the overflow box becomes the canister of a filter and they they plumb the bottom to a pump then to a Redsea polishing filter and back to the tank. I thought this is a pretty neat idea, just to let you know. This is what I'm considering ordering for my tank if the lily pipe idea proved not so good at skimming the surface.


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## Wingsdlc (Dec 9, 2005)

gsd78 said:


> Nope...won't need to be reinforced. It's a 100gal commercial stock tank like this: http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/(c...uctdetails.aspx?sku=7001746&source=GoogleBase. Its plenty strong enough. Lots of saltwater reef guys use these as sumps, some of them up to 300gal in size, without any problems.


You wont have a problem using that tank. At the LFS i used to work at we used them for live rock storage.


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## mrkookm (Apr 4, 2007)

.............


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## kzr750r1 (Jun 8, 2004)

Nice tank! I need to keep my eye on this one. Thanks for sharing.


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## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

mrkookm said:


> Agreed...good pump and sump choice roud:
> 
> How will you be getting Co2 into the tank? What _size_ Co2 tank are you planning on using?



Glad to hear that you agree on the pump choice, as a just placed an order for it 10 minutes ago. :icon_wink 

As far as CO2 goes, I plan on using a 20lb tank. I will be using a Mazzei venturi for CO2 diffusion and will probably plumb it into one of the 1" return lines. Any recommendations on where to purchase a quality one at a decent price?

As a side note, I have from Dec 21st to Jan 2nd off work and will be devoting the entire time to working on the tank. I plan on starting to reinforce the floors next weekend and my goal is to have water in the tank by the new year. roud:

Thanks for all the positive comments.

Greg


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## mrkookm (Apr 4, 2007)

..............


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## khoile (Jan 27, 2005)

gsd,

How you like the lifegard modules? I am considering them for my 180G also. I know you dont' have it running yet, but do you think is it easy to maintain? Do you just unscrew the top and relace the media?

If you could could you take some pics of the top open and close and also the connection points for me?


Thanks alot.


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## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

Khoile,

I can't really comment on the Lifegards much as I have absolutely no experience with them. I have decided to go with a sump on this project instead. The Lifegards I have were purchased used on eBay and I got a good deal on them because they were all glued together. I purchased 1 mechanical, 2 chemical, and 1 UV triple sized modules. My original plan was to try and seperate the UV from the rest so that I could regulate the flow through it with a ball valve. However, it doesn't look like there would be any way at all to seperate them. I was also going to add a triple heater unit to the system. 

From what I can tell the maintenance on the modules looks like it would be easy. The caps just screw off and the media in the chemical modules can be changed or the filters in the mechanical modules can be cleaned. I wish I could make use of them on this project, but it just isn't going to work out.


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## ConquestTSI (Oct 7, 2005)

Its good to see some peninsula work in progress. I'm dreaming of a smaller version (48"x30"x18") to divide my dining and family rooms. I'm going to be fortunate with the floors because I have a steel beam directly below. Being an Civil Engineer also... the deflection at mid span will be about 0.22" 

Have you considered a larger center piece? Something like a bigger stump than the pieces you have now?


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## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

ConquestTSI said:


> Have you considered a larger center piece? Something like a bigger stump than the pieces you have now?


As of right now I am going to use the manzanita I have. I think I can put together a pretty nice hardscape with it, especially once the tanks planted and had time to grow in. I really don't want a single piece of wood as the centerpiece of this tank. I have done all my past planted tanks that way and am ready for a change. I really like the looks of the scapes that have the manzanita jetting out in various directions from a densely planted area. Hopefully I can pull of the look I have envisioned in my head. Time will tell I guess.


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## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

Got some time to work on the tank today and got started on plumbing it. Here's some of the plumbing supplies I had gathered for the project. I bought all the PVC fitting at Home Depot and Lowes. The flex pvc was purchased from www.savko.com. I purchased 20ft each of 1", 1-1/2", and 2". I also purchased the additinal bulkheads I needed from them. They have some good prices on schedule 80 bulkheads. I think they are comparable in quality to the much more expensive Haywards that came with the tank. The roll of black vinyl sitting on the back of the table came from www.signwarehouse.com and will be applied to the back of the tank as a background.














First, I had to drill two 1-7/8" holes inside the overflow for the two 1" bulkheads I needed to add. The pictures shows one side of the overflow with one of the new holes. There are one of each size hole on the other side of the overflow as well. The larger holes were already drilled in the tank when I bought it and will each have a 1-1/2" bulkhead with a Durso standpipe attached to it for the drains.








I also drilled four 1-7/8" holes in the face of the overflow. I mounting jacuzzi style jets in the holes, which have eyeball sockets to direct the flow. The jets themselves are 5/8" in diameter and I'll will be plumbing two jets to each 1" return line. Based on my pump, I am hoping to get about 500gph out of each jet.


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## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

As I mentioned in a previous post, the pump I decided on is a Sequence Reeflo Barracuda. It is powered by a 1/4hp Baldor motor and has a maximum flow of 4500gph. At the estimated 15ft head I'll be running I'll get about 2000gph pumped back into the tank and at that rate the pump uses about 190 watts. At my electric rate of 0.08/kwh that will equate to about $11 per month. Heres a picture for size reference. It should get the job done. :thumbsup: 








I'll get into more detail on the plumbing later this week. I hope to get all the plumbing dry fitted by mid week.

Thanks for taking a look.


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## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

Thats definately a beastly pump lol. But since you figured out how much that is costing you I am starting to get worried how much my 240 is going to run my electric bill... my pump is slightly less (est 150W) but looking at the trend over 24 hrs on my 800w heater looks like they actually run a bit over 50% of the time, and lights, water bill, etc, etc, looks like the monthly fee for running a 240 is going to be a bit higher than I originally thought :eek5: oh well


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## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

The monthy electric cost to run this tank should be in the $35 to $40 range. Atleast thats what the calculator over at Reef Central says. Here's a link to it: http://www.reefcentral.com/calc/tank_elec_calc.php. Hopefully it won't be anymore than that, but time will tell I guess.


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## mrkookm (Apr 4, 2007)

> At my electric rate of 0.08/kwh that will equate to about $11 per month. Heres a picture for size reference. It should get the job done.


hahahaha....welcome to the big pump world :hihi: I recently got rid of my Panworld 250PS pump rated @ *45ft head* which required *390watters*. After a year of use I downgraded to a more realistic 150PS @ 180watters....still kinda up there but big difference form 390watts. Going from the ¼hp big boy to the current pump caused a $20~30 difference on the bill.

I have used a few different Baldor based pumps 'excellent motors' and if I'm not mistaken your pump is based of a 1425/1450rpm TEFC motor and they are extremely quiet...the 3000+rpm TEFC beastly motors however are amongst the noisiest thing on this earth.


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## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

The Baldor motor on the Barracuda is a 1725rpm TEFC and yes they are very quiet. I have alot of experience using them at work, which was one of the main reasons I chose this model.

With a little luck I should have water flowing by the new year!


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## khoile (Jan 27, 2005)

Is 2400gph a little too much for planted tank? I thought 3x tank volume is good enough, so 1000gph is probaly all you need?


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## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

khoile said:


> Is 2400gph a little too much for planted tank? I thought 3x tank volume is good enough, so 1000gph is probaly all you need?


Technically 10x turnover could be considered too much, but I'm more concerned with water circulation in the tank rather than turn over. As I mentioned in earlier posts my goal with this tank is to have absolutely no visible equipment, which means no powerheads for additional circulation. With that in mind and the fact that the tank is 48" front to back, I really need alot of flow to avoid dead spots near the front of the tank. To be honest I'm not even sure if the around 2000gph I'll be pushing back into the tank will be enough. If I can get the 500gph out of each jet and aim them out towards the sides of the tank I hope the flow makes it too the front corners. I'm really counting on this working though, as I don't have a backup plan...lol. I really, really, really don't want to have to add powerheads.

I actually don't even have any power outlets anywhere near the tank and don't plan on adding any. All the filtration and CO2 will be in the basement and the ballasts for the MH pendants will be up in the second story in the room above the tank. Nothing in the den where the tank is located will need to be plugged in.

I'm a noobie when it comes to large tanks though. My previous largest was a 75gal. I've done alot of research and planning, but still somewhat learning as I go. I should know by the end of the week if it will work out or not though. Keep watching for updates. I don't want to hide anything on this build. If an idea of mine fails miserably I'll be sure to post about it...lol.

Thanks for the comments.


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## JohnInFlorida (May 2, 2007)

Have you considered using a variation of this ... Undergravel Jets ... ?? Modifying one of your return lines to utilize UGJs (instead of the powerhead the article uses) at the front corners might prevent the dead spots you're worried about. 3 or 4" of substrate can hide a lot of plumbing.

Keep Smilin'
John


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## khoile (Jan 27, 2005)

How about drilling return holes in the bottom of the tank so that way you can ensure proper flow throughout the entire tank? You can easily hide the return outlet with plants/driftwood, and if someday you decided not to use it, just cover it up. That is what I plan to do with my 180G. I came from a 75G tank also . So I'm trying to learn as much as I can before it come my turn to do the setup. I will have 2 holes drill in the bottom of my tank for water return. You can see the prelim version here:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/g...6194-new-tank-plan-lots-questions-please.html


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## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

John,

I had originally thought about drilling the bottom of the tank for return jets, but ultimately decided against it. I did so mainly because I just couldn't decide exactly where to put them. It just seems the jets would limit me on how I could set up my hardscape and I wanted complete flexibility in that area.

I am going to be doing flow testing on the system before the substrate goes in though. This way if the flow/circulation in the tank isn't want I hope it will be I could add jets like in the link you provided. If it did come to that I would use some Loc-line and nozzles so that the jets could be easily directed to where I need the flow.

Thanks for that link.


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## travis (Nov 17, 2004)

We use a Barracuda to run two 4'x4'x1' coral flats, each with four return jets, at my store and it produces some serious flow. Of course we don't have nearly the head you're going to be running so I'm guessing things should work out very nicely for you. I'm anxious to watch this progress. Great tank!


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## mrkookm (Apr 4, 2007)

..............


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## scotie aquatic (Nov 23, 2007)

, I too have started a 240 gal plant project, mine is the 8ft x 2ft x2ft tank hope to learn from this as I go.
very nice​


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## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

Been busy working on the setup over the holidays. Here's a quick overview of the progress I've made. Please excuse the dirty tank and the mess in and around it.

First, I applied the black adhesive vinyl to the back of the tank. This proved to be much harder than I anticipated. I ended up with alot of air bubbles and was unable to work them all out. I tried popping them with a pin and then smoothing the area out, but it still left visible marks when viewed from the inside of the tank. Once its planted though I don't think you'll notice them much. I really like how the overflow box blends into it making it much less noticable.









Next, I started the process of skinning the stand. As mentioned earlier, my inspiration for the stand came from this link: Greenwich Aquaria. I'll be painting the stand white and am looking for some sort of marine grade epoxy coating to seal it that will be extremely durable and easy to wipe clean. Any ideas? Here's how the stand looks so far:









I decided to sacrifice some functionality for looks when designing the stand. Since the sump and all equipment are going down in the basement, I only need limited access to under the stand. Thus, I have decided to only put one large door on the least visible side of the tank. I haven't built it yet, but the door will look just like the raised panels on the other two sides and I'll use euro hinges to hang it. Hopefully when looking at it you won't even be able to tell there is a door there.

Finally, I got the MH pendants mounted and the wiring run up through the ceiling and into attic space upstairs. They will be connected to a ditigital 7 day pregramable timer so that I can set up different lighing periods based on my work schedule on different days. Here's what It looks like at this point:





















I'd really like opinions on how this looks. Does it look out of scale? Should the mounting box I made extend back to the wall? This is the one part of the build thus far that I'm not sure I'm happy. I just can't figure out how to make it look any better/cleaner though.

Thanks for looking.


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

Very nice so far..What pendants are those?


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## tropicalfish (Mar 29, 2007)

There looks to be minimal space to aquascape between the lights and the tank.
Is there going to be a way to move the lights? Not that you will be touching the lights while you work, but the heat might get a bit uncomfortable. The wood and stuff above the lights can take the heat, right?

Looks really nice, I love cube open tops!


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## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

Here's the best full setup shot I can get. The room the tank is in is actually pretty small and I can't get far enough away to get everything in. Notice that there are no visible wires or equipment at all. Keeping it nice and clean. :thumbsup:


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## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

Orlando said:


> Very nice so far..What pendants are those?


They are 175w Hamilton bell pendants.



tropicalfish said:


> There looks to be minimal space to aquascape between the lights and the tank.
> Is there going to be a way to move the lights? Not that you will be touching the lights while you work, but the heat might get a bit uncomfortable. The wood and stuff above the lights can take the heat, right?
> 
> Looks really nice, I love cube open tops!


There is actually alot more space around the lights to access the tank than may be evident in the pictures. I can very easily and safely reach all points in the tank without the lights getting in the way. The lights are fixed in that position and won't be able to be moved and I don't anticipating ever needing to move them. There's even plenty of room to maneuver large pieces of driftwood into the tank if needed.

As far as heat goes, the pendants themselves no not touch the wood at all. There are metal cordgrips at the tops of the pendants that are up against the wood. I don't anticipate any problems with this setup. I'd certainly like to here others opinions though.

Thanks for the replys.


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## khoile (Jan 27, 2005)

Very nice setup, great progress.. The pendants are mongul type bulbs? what type of reflectors are they? So when is the water going in?


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## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

khoile said:


> Very nice setup, great progress.. The pendants are mongul type bulbs? what type of reflectors are they? So when is the water going in?


Yes, the pendants use single ended mogul base bulbs. The inside of the bell pendants is just white paint or powdercoated white. I just fired up the lights and they are very bright. I get even light coverage over the whole tank with the two fixtures as well.

As far as water going in, still have alot to do before that happens. I have to complete and paint the stand. Also need to design and build my sump, as well as finish up the plumbing. Needless to say that everythings taking alot longer than I had initially anticipated. My goal was water in the tank by the new year, but I'd guess I'm atleast another month away.


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## jhill54 (Dec 31, 2007)

Awesome just awesome!! I will be following this for sure. The only thing I would do with your lights is to paint inside the box 

John


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## travis (Nov 17, 2004)

Great job man. It is going to look very nice when finished and filled with water.

You should take a look at Sherwin Williams' Centurion water-based urethane if you want a serious marine epoxy that is fairly friendly to work with. It only comes in a gloss finish, but you'll likely find that most marine epoxies are gloss finish. The advantage is that it is very resistant to staining, yellowing, and chemicals and is designed to resist graffiti, so it will be very easy to keep clean.


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## crabcake (Dec 19, 2007)

gsd78 said:


> I'll be painting the stand white and am looking for some sort of marine grade epoxy coating to seal it that will be extremely durable and easy to wipe clean. Any ideas?


i will be very interested in what you discover. i am considering the same for a project that i am working on. have you seen this stuff?:

http://store.nationalpaintsupply.net/poshwh.html

it's not cheap, $120/two gallons, but it oughta work well. i wonder how well it covers(?).


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## kzr750r1 (Jun 8, 2004)

The fumes from Epoxy paint are nasty. Please take heed of the warnings on the container about wearing a ventilator and do not work in an area that can't air out...

Nice progress.


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## crabcake (Dec 19, 2007)

yep, epoxy fumes are about the worst thing you can possibly inhale. 

have you ever used a product like that one? i am also working on a large stand (8'X3'X2') and canopy and i wonder how far the epoxy paint will go(?). much more than four cans will get to be really expennsive.


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## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

crabcake said:


> yep, epoxy fumes are about the worst thing you can possibly inhale.
> 
> have you ever used a product like that one?


No, I haven't ever used one like in the link you provided. That looks to be a floor coating though. I'm starting to think that either a good quality exterior paint or a kitchen/bath paint may be all I need. I'll have to take a trip to Home Depot or Lowes and see what I can come up with.

A side note...the black vinyl on the back of the tank didn't work out. I just couldn't get it applied without bubbles and streaks. I thought I had worked most of them out, but as soon as I turned on the halides I could see every imperfection. So I ended up ripping it off and painting the back of the tank black. Looks way better now.


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## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

Quick update...

I spent yesterday sanding and preping the stand for paint.

So far today I've gotten 2 coats of Zinsser latex primer on it. Here's some pics:





















Next step is to paint 2 finish coats of white latex kitchen and bath paint.


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## crabcake (Dec 19, 2007)

that is going to look really slick. nice work!


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## khoile (Jan 27, 2005)

Thanks gsd, I always thought that it the probe style, like ph, so I can incorporate the sensor inline. But look like I have to buy that type of sensor separately.


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## JohnInFlorida (May 2, 2007)

VERY nice job on the stand, moldings, trims, etc. It's gonna be a real showpiece when it's done

Keep Smilin'
John


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## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

Thanks for the comments crabcake and John.

Khoile: I'm confused. Was your post intended for a different thread?

I was able to get the final 2 coats of paint on the stand yesterday. Overall really happy with the way it turned out. 

Here's some shots with the MH pendants on:


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## zergling (May 16, 2007)

please forgive me if this has been asked previously, but do you find that you have enough coverage with only 2 mh pendants, specifically from front to back? 

the reason I asked is that i've seen 36" long tanks lit by a single MH and while the middle 24" are good, the left most and right most 6" seem to be noticeably dimmer -- I'm thinking that your front 12" and back 12" will be noticeably dimmer than the middle 24"

but I could be wrong, as I haven't used MH personally, only observed setups with it.


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## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

zergling said:


> do you find that you have enough coverage with only 2 mh pendants, specifically from front to back?


The 2 pendants are mounted about 13" above the tank and give great light coverage throughout it. The fact that the tank is completely open topped means that there's no light blockage or shadows in the tank at all. Also, when you take into account the overflow, the tank is only 41" front to back. Different styles of pendants may yield different results though and this is my first experience with MH lighting. However, I can say that the bell styles pendants seem to spread the light well and the shimmer effect you get with MH is really nice. Can't wait to get water in the tank and see how it looks


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## khoile (Jan 27, 2005)

Wow, your tank is so nice.. I'm drooling. Sorry for the confusion. I just wanted to be sure, because I got myself an AC3 also, I just keep on thinking the probe is a ph style probe, not a 1" probe. I'm not sure how to hook that inline. Probaly have to ask Scolley how he did it.


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## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

As I mentioned in past threads, my tank is setup in my first floor den. Due to it weighing somewhere around 2800 lbs when full I needed to reinforce my floors to handle the weight. 

Where I positioned the tank, it ended up spanning 3 joists. The edges of the tank end up right between joists. Because of this I first added additional joists that line up with the edges of the aquarium stand. I had hoped to double up the 3 existing joists, but due to duct work that runs though them I was unable to. I could only double up one of them. So I ended up with a total of 6 joists running under the tank. Then I made 2 support beams out of 2x8's that I ran perpendicular to the existings joists. One beam is 3 pieces of 2x8's and the other is made of 2 pieces of 2x8's and a piece of 3/4" MDF. Both were boneded together with liquid nails and screws. At each corner of these new support beams I placed a jack post rated to support over 18,000 pounds a piece (way overkill I know!). Here are a couple pics:

















I still need to add some additional braces and I may go ahead and double up the two new outside joists. Should be plenty strong enough at that point.

I decided to incoporate my sump stand into the posts, as the space between them would have been wasted otherwise. The stand is basic 2x4 construction with an MDF top. I covered the top in black Wilsonart countertop laminate I had leftover from a kitchen remodel. It not only looks good, but makes the top water resistant. I drilled four 3-1/4" holes thru the top and have a jackpost palced through each hole. Here's a pic:









I still have to add the laminate around the edges of the top. Hope to get that done tomorrow.

Here's a couple pictures of the basic sump setup mocked up:
















The sump stand itself still needs the legs bolted to it. In the photo they are just clamped in position. They will be moved out to more towards the corners of the stand. Also, in the second picture you can see the start of the water storage tank stand. This will be tied into the construction of the sump stand. It will hold two 55gal storage tanks. One tank will hold RO water and the other tap. Both will contain heaters and small powerheads. With this setup I'll be able to do a 100gal water change that is 50/50 mix of tap and RO by simply turning a valve and letting them gravity drain into the sump. The RO unit will be mounted above the utility sink that will be installed.

You can also see in the photos the Pentair Lifegard modules standing behind the sump. I have 1 mechanical, 2 chemical, and a 40w UV. They are all the triple sized units. I think I'm going to add a second pump to the system and filter the water in the sump through the Lifegards. This will allow me to operate them indepent of the main return pump and I'll be able to throttle back the flow through the Lifegards when I want to run the UV module.

Getting tired....more details to come tomorrow.


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## kzr750r1 (Jun 8, 2004)

You have the beginnings of a great fish room there. 
Enclose the wall and vent to keep the humidity down.

You could hold livestock in that sump! It's like pond supporting your glass cube.

Unfortunately basements are few and far between out here. I would love to have that much access under my home. Auto WC would have been hooked up along time ago.

Keep up the good work and thanks for sharing.

Sean


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## khoile (Jan 27, 2005)

Yeah thanks for sharing... Can't wait to see this fill up.

Does the sump have any divider in there? Look like you're going to have 2000+ gph flowing throw that sump. Not sure how much CO2 you need to keep up. Also have you run the pentairs yet? Does the mech unit slow water flow significantly?


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## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

khoile said:


> Does the sump have any divider in there? Look like you're going to have 2000+ gph flowing throw that sump. Not sure how much CO2 you need to keep up. Also have you run the pentairs yet? Does the mech unit slow water flow significantly?


I haven't really done anything with the sump yet, but I'll probably add in some dividers and use pond filter foam between them. I was kind of thinking of just using egg crate as the dividers with the foam between them. I have also been looking at this product: Matala filter media, but not sure its worth the hefty price tag. I'm all ears if anyone has ideas on how to setup the sump. 

As far as CO2 goes, I'm not sure how tuff it will be to keep the levels up. The sump is going to completely "wet" in that the drain line will be placed below the water line. There won't be any water falling over solid dividers or dropping through drip plates. Also, I do plan on making a cover for the sump, but I doubt I'll ever have it 100% air tight. Again, I'm all ears if anyone has ideas.

Regarding the Pentair Lifgard modules, I have never used them so I can't say for sure how much they will slow the flow. Although, I'm guessing that the head loss through 4 triple units will be significant and thats why I want to run them on their own pump. I don't want to reduce the flow back to the tank.


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## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

khoile said:


> Thanks gsd, I always thought that it the probe style, like ph, so I can incorporate the sensor inline. But look like I have to buy that type of sensor separately.





gsd78 said:


> Khoile: I'm confused. Was your post intended for a different thread?





khoile said:


> Sorry for the confusion. I just wanted to be sure, because I got myself an AC3 also, I just keep on thinking the probe is a ph style probe, not a 1" probe. I'm not sure how to hook that inline. Probaly have to ask Scolley how he did it.


I think he got me confused with you, Khoile asked me about the Aqua Controller temp sensor here.

Looks great so far! Its nice to have an unfinished basement to work with, opens up a lot more options. Those steel posts should do the trick.


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## Badcopnofishtank (Jan 20, 2004)

I have a 45 gallon sump on a 190 holding tank that spills into a series of tanks that I use for grow out purposes. The off-gasing is crazy. I go through a 10 lb CO2 tank in 2 months(ph set @ 6.6). You may want to consider covering that sump somehow with some acrylic or something to prevent the same issue.


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

gsd78 - Just wanted to say that you are creating one AWESOME showpiece of a tank! :thumbsup: Great dimensions - wonderful open-top walk around design. That is going to give you that wonderful "big cube of water" illusion that is SO cool to see.

I'm interested to see where you go with the sump, though I've never done one, in the right situation it should massively simplify plumbing. Good choice.

My congratulations on what appears to be the making of a premier setup. Thanks for posting, and please keep up the info/pics coming!


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## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

Scolley - Thanks for the positive comments. I have to say that your Kahuna tanks have been one of the main inspirations for my setting up this tank.

As far as the sump is concerned, I'm interested to see where I go with it as well...lol. Really not sure how to set it up or how its going to work out at this point. I think I'm going to have to get water running through the system and see what the flows like in the sump. Then I'll have a better idea of how to partition it. With just over 2000gph rushing into it, I imagine its going to be pretty violent, which brings up serious CO2 issues. I'm definitely going to build some sort of cover for the sump. I'm thinking I'll hinge it and put some sort of gasket material around the top edges of the sump. This will allow me to close and latch it for a somewhat airtight seal. I'm hoping to keep the actual sump really simple with just two partitions with pond filter foam between them. Then I'll be able to just slide the foam out to wash or replace as needed. I'll rely on the Lifegard modules for the majority of the filtration, which I imagine will be able to go several months without any maintenance or cleaning.

Also, I should have water in the tank by the end of the day. I just have a little more to button up with the floor reinforcement to do this afternoon. I've already got the substrate in with a few inches of water. Once the floor reinforcements done, I'm going to work on the hardscape with the manzanita and then fill the tank.

I'll post pictures later of the hardscape.


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## kzr750r1 (Jun 8, 2004)

Sweet. Take it a step at a time and cover your bases. Your at the stage I'd be hopping all over the place and make a mistake.

Thanks for keeping us in the loop.

Come to think of it are you set up to measure any of the beam deflection after filling? Sorry... Just one thing that comes to mind.

The other is if post fill you need to shim the stand. Fill the tank about half way and be sure it's still on level.

Good luck!


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

Can't wait to see the hardscape go in, did you mention what your going to be using for your substrate? because if you haven't already got it in youll have to drain the tank...


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## kzr750r1 (Jun 8, 2004)

garuf said:


> Can't wait to see the hardscape go in, did you mention what your going to be using for your substrate? because if you haven't already got it in youll have to drain the tank...


With this much water suspended, a test fill is important before going with the full blown setup. Don't rush him....


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## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

garuf said:


> Can't wait to see the hardscape go in, did you mention what your going to be using for your substrate? because if you haven't already got it in youll have to drain the tank...


Substrate is charcoal Soilmaster Select and it is already in the tank along with a few inches of water.


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

sorry didn't want to seem impatient, just it seemed like a whole load of water to have to drain but since you mentioned its suspended I agree it needs a test run.


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## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

Here's some pictures of my first attempt at a hardscape. I only used the thickest pieces of manzanita I had on this attempt. They aren't as branchy as the thinner ones, but I think they fit the scale of the tank pretty well. Let me know what you think.

From the front:








From the right side:








From the left side:


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

very nice, did you ever try zip tying any to the ends of branches to make them longer so they will break the surface?


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## Coolpix (Aug 17, 2007)

nice wood shape. how did you make them pointing out like that ? any techniques ?


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## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

garuf said:


> very nice, did you ever try zip tying any to the ends of branches to make them longer so they will break the surface?


Yes, but it didn't look natural to me. I'm not going to cover the wood in moss, so the point where the pieces were zip tied together would be too visible.



Coolpix said:


> nice wood shape. how did you make them pointing out like that ? any techniques ?


They are just all zip tied together at their bases. Also, one of the pieces is zip tied through the teeth in my overflow to help hold everything up. The pieces don't quite sink on their own yet, so I'll have to wait and see what happens to everything when the water goes in.

Thanks for the comments.


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

Ahh, good call, I really like what you've done with the wood, I can't wait to see it all grow out and be set up. I'd really like to see bolbitis in there with the wood. 
Top marks.


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## khoile (Jan 27, 2005)

I'm not sure the setup look natural enough... seem to end abruptly when it get to the rim of the tank. Better off having them bend back down into the substrate I think.


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## kzr750r1 (Jun 8, 2004)

I like it. Plan on any rocks in the forground? I would help keep your mound in shape.

My back is aching thinking about tying moss with it in place. But it will look great.


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

Planting HC gives you spine crimes of the worst kind, far worse than moss.
Moss and wood works so well together it's really worth considering.


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## ValorG (Dec 27, 2003)

Did you get the large aquarium package of manzanita from manzanita.com?


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## Coolpix (Aug 17, 2007)

gsd78 said:


> Yes, but it didn't look natural to me. I'm not going to cover the wood in moss, so the point where the pieces were zip tied together would be too visible.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


thanks. I think moss with cover the zip tie spot too.


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## BigB (Oct 14, 2005)

some day I am going setup a big square tank, My plan is using a Stump right in the middle though and it will be on a pedastool type stand and drilled on the bottom so it can be view from all four sides and the filter is underneath. yea someday lol.

looks nice hurry up and plant it


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## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

ValorG said:


> Did you get the large aquarium package of manzanita from manzanita.com?


No, the manzanita came from Badcopnofishtank on this forum. Check out his threads in the swap and shop.


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## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

Looks good, I like it clumped together like that. I've been struggling with placement of mine, might try to bunch some pieces together like that.

FWIW the last time I put them in the tank they had dried out for a couple of months and they all floated, it took about a week for the first piece to sink and probably about a month total until all the pieces sunk.

Keep up the good work roud:


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## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

Got enough of the plumbing done to start up the pump and get water flowing. I gotta tell ya....the Sequence Barracuda is a beast. Provides great flow throughout the tank, even with it valved back quite a bit. The four nozzles I mounted in the face of the overflow seem to be working out great as well. It took me several hours of fiddling, but I was finally able to get the tank dead silent and the water level consistent. No gurgling, air sucking, or water trickling noises at all.

I'll post more details on the plumbing setup when its complete, but for now here's a few pics:





















Here's the tank with 2 bags of unwashed SMS and about a week of settling:















I've got a Vortex XL on the way to help clear things up.


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## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

can't wait for the scape.


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## fshfanatic (Apr 20, 2006)

wow, nice job~!


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## fishscale (May 29, 2007)

I am so excited for this tank.


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## crabcake (Dec 19, 2007)

this tank is really great. it is a perfect model for the (somewhat smaller) project that i am starting.


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## aquabear (Jan 10, 2008)

fantastic documentation. Did you end up using the Loc-Line? I am trying to use it for my new 300 gal setup. I will be ready for water next week but am a little concerned about how to keep the line attached to the back of the tank. Just curious how others have solved this question.


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## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

Thanks for the positive comments.

aquabear: No, I didn't use any of the Loc-line in my setup. Instead I installed four jacuzzi jet style bulkheads in the face of the overflow. They have eyeball socket nozzles on them that allow me to direct the flow where needed. Seems to be working out really well and blends into the black overflow and background really well.


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## CobraGuppy (Sep 23, 2007)

wow, cant wait to see your scape. You have so much depth lol


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## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

Just wanted to update this thread with a few pics of what I'm doing with the sump. I knew that I wanted to add two dividers in the sump and use bonded filter foam between them as a means of both mechanical and biological filtration. Instead of using egg crate, I decided to fabricate my own dividers using some 1/4" thick black pvc sheet I had leftover from a past project. I first used thick wire to conform to make a form of the profile of the inside of the sump and then transfered the wire profile onto some 1/4" plywood to make a template. I test fit and modified this template until it fit perfectly and then transferred it to the pcv sheet and cut out two dividers using my jig saw. Then I layed out a grid on one of the dividers, clapmed them together, and drilled a whole bunch of 1-3/8" holes in them. Alot of work, but I think they look really cool and will function as I need them to. I love that the black pcv matches the sump and overall looks much cleaner than white eggcrate would have.

Here's some shots of the end product:




















I am going to be attaching these dividers together so that the entire assembly can be lifted out and the foam pads can be cleaned or replaced.

I'm also making a mounting plate for the heaters that will sit on the bottom of the sump. The suctions cups just won't hold the heaters in place well enough.

Another update to come shortly.


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## tropicalfish (Mar 29, 2007)

Bump?? Any updates?


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## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

Long overdue for an update so I'll try and snap some photos and get them posted tonight. The tank is planted, but because of CO2 issues I've been fighting alot of algae issues. I just got a Mazzei injector, PH controller, and some equipment from Sumo Regulator to finish up the CO2 setup and then hopefully things will make a turn around. I've had alot of trouble with outgassing CO2 due to the high flow rates in the system and poor injection methods. The sump is now completely calm, but there is still alot of turbulence in the drain lines and I believe I'm losing quite a bit of CO2 there. I may have to do some redesign of my overflows and rethink some of my plumbing, but I'm going to wait and see what kind of CO2 levels I can get with the Mazzei before any major changes are made. 

More details and photos to come later tonight.


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## Wingsdlc (Dec 9, 2005)

Very cool! Looking forward to seeing some plants in this thing! 

Large tank = the need for large filter = use a sump = Co2 issues. I hope you can get it figured out!


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## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

Here's a few quick photos. No real attempt at an aquascape has been made at this point. Just planted things and waiting for them to grow. Please excuse my poor photography skills.

From the front:

















From the right side:









Thanks for looking!


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## Aquamadman (Aug 10, 2007)

beautifull İ want one of these when İ get wealthier


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## Wingsdlc (Dec 9, 2005)

gsd78,

Once things grow in its going to be sweet! Heck it is already pretty sweet!


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## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

Aquamadman said:


> beautifull İ want one of these when İ get wealthier


I don't even know what wealth is....but thanks to this little project I sure do know what credit card debt is. :hihi:


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## crabcake (Dec 19, 2007)

it's looking great.

it is encouraging to see fresh design/concepts here.


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## honor (Apr 8, 2008)

f'n awesome.


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## Badcopnofishtank (Jan 20, 2004)

^^^ X 2. Once that baby fills in, its gonna be sweet.


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## Wingsdlc (Dec 9, 2005)

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by Aquamadman View Post
> beautifull İ want one of these when İ get wealthier
> I don't even know what wealth is....but thanks to this little project I sure do know what credit card debt is.


Ouch! I would love a large tank but I can't do the debt thing.


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## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

Thanks for the positive comments.

The pictures really don't do the tank justice at all. Somehow they make it seem much smaller than it is. I'll try and get better quality photos once things grow in a bit more.

I'm working on stocking the tank now. So far I just have 12 ottos in it and I've got 10 German blue rams on the way. I wanna bump the otto population up to about 30 and also add schools of both Rummynose tetras and corys. The centerpiece fish are going to be wild Peruvian angels. Still looking for a good source for them. Anyone know of any?


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## khoile (Jan 27, 2005)

Wild angels, my favorite fish. Your stocking plan is similar to mine, really looking forward to how they look together. Also thanks for all the help in setting up my tank.


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## mrkookm (Apr 4, 2007)

It's been over 4 months since the last update, how is the tank doing? Normally when this quiet something is wrong/ tank not up to speed...all ok?

How difficult is maintaining Co2 at this size with that sump? Can you comment on the pump's return flow after all accessories?

I suggested a dedicated Mazzei at this size/capacity back then, what do you think now?


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## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

mrkookm: Due to a job change which envolves quite a bit of travel the tank went through a rough period. This was mostly due to the fact that my Milwaukee regulator was giving me troubles and I had a heck of a time keeping a consistant bubble rate. I've since upgraded my CO2 setup and all is well. The Mazzei venturi is working wonderfully and I am able to keep a consistent C02 level much easier than I expected. What helps is that I have zero turbulence in the sump. The only place I outgass some CO2 is in the drain line, which in hindsight I probably sized too large. 

Regarding the flow rate of the pump, I ended up using the Sequence Barracuda as the return with only the Mazzei run off it (with a bypass loop). I added a Panworld 100px-x which I use to power the four Pentair Lifegard modules. I have it setup so that I am only filtering the water in the sump with the Panworld/Pentairs. Overall, I get real good flow through the tank and the way I used the nozzles mounted in the overflow means that there is absolutely no vizible equipment in the tank. I've actually got the Barracuda valved down quite a bit because I am limited by how fast the tank drains with the Durso standpipe setup I have. 

My goal was to make this a low maintenance tank and thus far I have been really successful at that. I have not dosed this tank at all and have virtually no algae issues and my algae crew consists of only 12 ottos at this point.

I'll get some pictures posted up next week sometime once I'm back in town.

Thanks for bringing this thread back to life. :thumbsup:


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## crudnugget (Feb 5, 2008)

Just read this journal from beginning to end for the first time. I think this is the first time I've seen someone's system span 3 levels of their house! Its too bad you have to spend such a large amount of time away from home. I miss viewing my tank when I'm at work every day - I hate to think of leaving it for a week or two at a time.


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## khoile (Jan 27, 2005)

Hi gsd,

How would you say the pentair effect the flow of the pump? 20%, 30%?

I'm trying to predict how it would hurt my pump.. hopefully no much *crossing fingers*.

Thanks.


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## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

khiole: Kind of hard to quantify but I would say that its quite a bit more than 20 or 30%. I'm running a Panworld 100px-x through 4 triple pentair modules and I would say that its in the 60% reduction range. Thats just a rough guess though. Keep in mind though that the Panworld I'm using is not rated for high head applications.


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## mrkookm (Apr 4, 2007)

> I've actually got the Barracuda valved down quite a bit because I am limited by how fast the tank drains with the Durso standpipe setup I have.


Direct the flow towards the Mazzei for better performance and mist size.



> My goal was to make this a low maintenance tank and thus far I have been really successful at that. I have not dosed this tank at all and have virtually no algae issues and my algae crew consists of only 12 ottos at this point.


Wow! No dosing? What kind of lighting did you end up with, how high off the tank is the final mounting height and are you using Aquasoil now?



> Keep in mind though that the Panworld I'm using is not rated for high head applications.


So is the Barracuda at only 19ft head, the Panworld is 21ft and *the Dart is 12ft*


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## TANKd (Jul 28, 2008)

MAN!!!! I'm drooling so hard at this tank! curved corners! aw man! i'm gunna have to make one like that! keedp up the good work!:icon_wink


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## chonhzilla (Apr 22, 2008)

Omg!


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## crabcake (Dec 19, 2007)

whatever happened to this project?


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## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

After years of being empty and unused, I am working on setting up this tank again. I'm going for a very low maintenance setup this time and it will be only lightly planted with low light plants. No CO2. Hardscape will consist of lots of Manzanita and stone. I'm adding some goodies like a Neptune Apex Lite controller and updating the sump setup this time around too. Lots of DIY stuff! Details to follow.

I'll get some photos up soon.


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## sdaley6999 (Jul 18, 2013)

Following


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