# fish choking? expanding food pellets?



## Laith (Jul 7, 2004)

I remember hearing quite a while ago about the risk of pellets expanding as they absorbed water and causing blockage problems in fish.

Sorry, don't remember the details.


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Man, I hate to think that happened. When I had the largemouth bass (and he was a little smaller than this fish), he used to eat them like candy. And I've watched my loaches eat these things. They can't swallow them of course, but the pellets don't seem to expand too fast, too much...

Maybe if it had died in 15 minutes or something. But this was within a minute.

But I must admit, though I've had other fish eat them, and though I don't think they expand _that _ fast, it _is _ a plausible explanation Laith. That fish briefly acted like it was in _extreme _ distress.

Though I would have thought it unlikely, I'll bet that was it.


Thanks for the tip. Another lesson learned at expense of a fish. :icon_frow


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## TheOtherGeoff (Feb 11, 2003)

i had a goldfish a while back die from picking up some rocks and choking on them. it got lodged in the very back of its mouth right by where the little stomach valve thingy is. we removed the rock with tweazers but the fish died a few minutes later. it was all fine and dandy til it ate that rock. so anything is possible.


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

As TheOtherGeoff has attested, I guess these things do happen.

But just to check, I dropped a pellet into a cup of water to watch it. While I could see no change in size in the first minute, it had doubled its size within 4 minutes. So I assume this is indeed what killed the fish.

I suppose there are many foods this could happen with. This particular Aquarium Pharmaceuticals product was Aquarian brand, Bottom Feeder Sinking Shrimp Pellets.

I think I'll change the name of this thread, to include the words "expanding pellets", just to help anyone else that might be looking for a similar problem.

Well, live and learn. I do feel bad for the fish though. :icon_frow


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## Safado (Jul 10, 2005)

scolley said:


> As TheOtherGeoff has attested, I guess these things do happen.
> 
> But just to check, I dropped a pellet into a cup of water to watch it. While I could see no change in size in the first minute, it had doubled its size within 4 minutes. So I assume this is indeed what killed the fish.
> 
> ...



I am having a hard time seeing where this could hurt the fish at all. It would be very soft by the time it expanded, so it wouldn't be harmful IMO. At first I was thinking Seagulls and Alka seltzer, but the food wouldn't create pressure or off gassing.

It certainly sounds like the fish died as a result of eating the pellet, but I would think it happened before the pellet dissolved. Could it be the pellet lodged in such a way as to cut off circulation, or damage the circulatory system of the fish in some other way? I can't see the fish choking. If it blocked the stomach, I can see the fish starve to death, but to die that quickly, it had to be rather critical. As fish don't breath, per se, or have lungs or an airway to block, I don't see how blocking the stomach would cause a quick death.

That is too bad you lost your fish. I will be very careful in the future when dealing with these pellets.


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Not sure what to say Safado. You are making good points. But at the same time, I know what I saw. The conclusions drawn may be wrong, but the reaction was just too immediate for this to be coincidental.

I'm not sure if this is an extenuating factor, but you should note that the fish _really _ sucked these things in. The second one in particular. That was one hungry fish. And when the second one went in another fish had gotten wise to the proceedings, and raced for it. The hungry fish got it first, but it had to darn near attack it to do so. Maybe it just sucked it in too hard???

I dunno. It was pretty weird.


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## bigstick120 (May 23, 2005)

When I used to feed shrimp pellets the fish always sucked them up. As the expanded they always seemed to soften as there were always a ton of particles floating around the take. I dont think that the pellet would have choaked the fish, they can spit them out pretty easily, did you check to see if it was lodged in its throat? It may be a long shot but maybe fish have food allegies???


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## anonapersona (Oct 19, 2002)

*Killed a danio that way*

I had a zebra danio die that way. I think that what happens is the pellet absorbs water from the throat of the fish and damages the tissue. You know that fish do not drink water, so if the pellet is still dry, it will need to take water from somewhere.

The answer, of course, is to pre-soak the pellets in a bit of tank water a few minutes before feeding. I found that a hassle, and tended to notice the cup of mushy pellets left on top of the tank later that day.


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## algae (Mar 28, 2005)

I'm using Omega One Shrimp Pellets, and they make a terrible mess in my tanks. If I throw only 5 or 6 into the 20g, peices of them become huge fur farms. (Maybe they're just too big for the residents, but so far, nobody's died).

On the other hands, I alternately throw in Spectra Thera-A sinking pellets (for smaller fish), much more liberally, and they are gone.


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## anonapersona (Oct 19, 2002)

*NLS doesn't expand much*

I like the New Life Spectrum fish foods. The growth formula is very small and seem to not expand much. The cichlid formula made the cichlids turn amazing colors and grow long fins. The discus formula seems to be hard baked so it does not dissolve when the rfish pick at it. Good stuff, and so concentrated that a little goes a long way.


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## jhoetzl (Feb 7, 2005)

*HBH Super Soft Pellets*

First off, losing fish is never fun, especially if you think it is something you've done...sorry for the loss.

I've also used the Omega one and NLS tabs, but I recently found some of these:
http://www.petdiscounters.com/customer/product.php?productid=1055025&cat=322&page=1

And my fish seemed to really go for it, especially my loaches and the cories. They feed is kind of odd to handle as they really are soft and moist, but not messy.

I checked the main HBH site and I don't even see them listed there...but this search should get you some places to buy if you want to try them out:
http://www.google.com/search?q=HBH+Super+Soft&btnG=Search


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Thanks for the feedback! 

I'm giving the sunfish Omega One Cichlid pellets... they love it, they seem healthy, they color up nice. But it floats. And they play such major dominance games, that some sunfish cannot come out into the open enough to get food at the surface. That why I was using the other stuff. It sinks.

All the soft foods I've bought floats.

I need a good food for a basically carnivorous fish (distantly related to cichlids) that sinks. And of course, does not explode in their gut, or as anonapersona mentioned, destroy the tissue in their gullets. I suppose I could just soak these as suggested.

But apparently that New Life Spectrum products come in some decent sizes, and sink. Maybe I should give that a try. Would they still need soaking. :icon_bigg


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## jhoetzl (Feb 7, 2005)

That HBH stuff sinks pretty quickly...


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## medicineman (Sep 28, 2005)

I happen to have kois and goldfishes. They are eating the same type of koi pellets (as many brand suggested through their pics on their products, whether they are german, japan, taiwan or local made). They do expand at a huge amount as I have regularly observe on the pellets that are not finished due to filter suction. Kois never got problem with eating lots of dry pellets at once, but goldfishes does have a problem with that (supposedly due to their much shorter and smaller intertinal tract). My golfishes are twice the size of a fist but yet still occasionally they will get bloating by the pellets. They will look like floats, appearing at the water surface from eating too much of dry pellets and sucking air into their guts because the are too greedy at feeding time, sometimes bottom side or side side up and unable to swim properly. They look so funny that way (but a shock to many people because they look dead at the first glance, not after they move after you poke them), and they tend to recover within a few hours or a day. A trick of avoiding this is to soak up the pellets in a bowl for five minutes then feed the fish, but do not wait for too long that the pellets started to disintegrate and cause you murky water, so you have to try out your product first.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Sounds to me like the fish did indeed simply choke (before the pellets expanded). Maybe it was just so hungry it wolfed both down too quickly and they got jammed. I'm not familiar with the brand or size of these pellets, but two together could possibly jam just like two people trying to go through a door at the same time, whereas one at a time would be no problem.


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## anonapersona (Oct 19, 2002)

*New Life Spectrum*

NLS does not float. I have several diferent formulas, the growht formula, the discus formula, the cichlid and the large size cichlid formulas. AS far as I can tell, the growth formula has a bit more protein (near 50% vs 34%), the discus formula is a bit harder baked so it does not get too soft too fast, the cichlid formulas are just different sizes. All will float for a moment, then sink slowly. Perhaps better if you have a bare bottom tank, smaller size gravel or some loaches to clean up what falls. I think that if you have large gravel you might lose a lot of these pellets without loaches or something like that to find the missing bits. 

It does not seem to expand much, I won't say it does not expand, but I find it hard to tell any expansion. Certainly no doubling in size like the stuff that killed my danio. 

I really, really like the NLS. When I went from basic flake to NLS, the big cichlids got great colors and longer fins. My baby discus were raised on primarily growth NLS, with some beefheart and some bloodworms. 

Don't balk at the price, for you will feed a lot less volume, it is very dense compared to most fish foods. I had been feeding the big tank of cichlids 2 tablespoons of flake, and they were a bit hollow in the belly. After I switched to NLS I dropped back to 1/4 teaspoon (note that 3 teaspoons = 1 tablespoon) and some of the fish were getting plump. 

Right now, I use a bunch of different foods, just becasue I keep picking them up for free or nearly free at club auctions. But the NLS is clearly tops in my book.


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Well, you've got me convinced! Time to go pick up some NLS. roud: I'm going to assume that for Dollar Sunfish (as mentioned before, a very distant relative of cichlids) the cichlid formula would be most appropriate. I notice that formula also has a large range of sizes - a good thing for me.


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