# Neolamprolagus multifasciatus biotope, sort of.



## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

This will be a non-planted tank, so don't look if you want to see plants. Otherwise, welcome aboard!

I originally was going to use some extra equipment I have laying around to make a small African Cichlid tank, but I soon went overboard after learning about Multies.

So I ordered this, freshly unwrapped, a Deep Blue 30 gallon breeder. It's 36x18x12 inches. It seems like a well built tank, and have grown to like the black silicone.









An AquaClear 50 HOB, 50 pounds of pool filter sand, 20 pounds of CaribSea Sahara Sand for Cichlids, and a Fluval 150 heater will all make the fish happy I hope. A cheapo T8 light will do since there will be no plants. I looked and looked for Neothauma snail shells, but I gave up. Extra large escargot shells from Roland will have to do. 

I'm almost done with the stand, I got this far last night.









A background rock hunt on the Eau Claire River and deciding how to finish the stand, and I should be ready to start cycling this weekend.

After that, a 90 minute drive to the Cities, and I'll get me some fish.


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## HSA1255 (Apr 2, 2013)

I've seen planted tanks with multies, but with or without plants that's a great tank and I am excited to see how it goes. Good luck to you.


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## I<3<*))))>< (Jun 10, 2013)

Looks like you're well on your way to an awesome setup! Im very excited to see this tank come to life!!!!


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

Thanks folks. I wanted this tank to be as accurate as possible to where Multies live, so no plants. 

I decided on this material to cover the tank, two 18"x24" sheets of .1" acrylic. There's also the tool to cut it. Just over 20 bucks with tool, not bad. There's a protective cover on the sheets, hence the haziness. I may intentionally scratch the sheets with sandpaper to diffuse the light. I'll wait until I try them clear first though.








I'm also thinking of using latex paint to paint the back glass the blue in this picture. Thank you whoever you are for posting this picture of Lake Tanganyika.


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## clau74 (Apr 21, 2012)

Hi , 
A tank with cichlids is a very good idea.I would have used a few pieces of wood and stones . Plants would pick Anubias nana, barter and congensis.

Wait to see your tank !


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## pseudomugil (Aug 12, 2013)

looks awesome!


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

Here's the completed stand.







If it wasn't for perhaps the world's oldest level you could see it is level, very close.

I went with two boards on top, joined with the excess I cut off, they were four feet long. 

I like the rustic look, reminds me of a pine fence. I bounced up and down in the middle, this thing could support a half a ton I bet. Everything is glued and screwed, except the top to the frame using just four screws. I figure it will be good to let that have a little give as one 4x4 is slightly shorter than the others. Everything will sit on the 4x4's. 

I just have to put a couple coats of water based polyurethane on it, but a minor back problem has pushed that back a bit.

So, in the mean time, I've been working on a way to light this thing. I bought a three foot T8 fixture meant to be wired into the house circuit. I attached a cord, and have a design on paper to attach it to the stand so that I can move it up, back, and out of the way for maintenance, yet it still provides downward light. I think I'm going to go with a balsa shade along the whole thing, maybe lined with aluminum foil. 

More on the way, in unreal time...


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## clau74 (Apr 21, 2012)

Hi ,
Interesting project. Stand is beautifully done well, I hope to be strong.
Looks awesome!


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

clau74 said:


> Hi ,
> Interesting project. Stand is beautifully done well, I hope to be strong.
> Looks awesome!


Thanks buddy.

It is way, way stronger than I thought it would be. It could easily hold a 65 gallon tank. I weigh about 150 pounds, I can't make it move no matter where I stand on it. I'm very happy for 50 bucks for everything.


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

The light stand/fixture has really been holding me up. I want to make an illusion of the light just hovering over the tank, with no visible means of support.

Here's the light, a hard wire T8 flourescent. I attached a cord. I'll be using a 4100K cool white for a bulb. I should get about 40 PAR according to Hoppy's chart about 14 inches about the substrate.









I started there for the height of the light in this crude drawing from the side, for how I mount it. It will be 40% of the distance from the front to back of the tank, a little front-lighting. The square with the circle in it is the fixture, the circle is the side view of the bulb. The drawing is 1/4"=1", so I can get measurements for the wood pieces.









It's all using 1"x2"s which are actually 3/4"x1 1/2", I hate how they do that.

If I want to cover the fixture and all the wood holding it up from the front to make a shade, it will be at least 6" deep, and I think that will look too bulky. There is my problem, how to slimline this. The fixture weights 5.5 pounds, with pretty thin metal. I may be able to reinforce the metal, and do away with all the support on top. More thinking is needed.

Otherwise, the drawing somewhat shows two 1x2s attached to the tank stand and the light, with one 1x2 at an angle in between connecting them. The joints will be connected by a carriage bolt, metal and rubber washers, and a wingnut. I can then move it up and back to get it out of the way for maintenance, but still have downward light. I should mention, this will all be mounted in the middle of the stand.

I drove by a local landscaping company this weekend. They were closed, but they had some rocks that intrigued me. I may just buy some rocks, the river rocks here rarely look similar.

Stay tuned...


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## clau74 (Apr 21, 2012)

Hi ,
Interesting ideas . Lighting is not less than 8000-10000 k .


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## londonloco (Aug 25, 2005)

I've kept multi's numerous times over the years, one of my favorite fish to keep. If you google pics of Lake Tangy, there is some vegetation that grows in the lake. I've always tied java fern to a few broken shells to add color to the tank. 

My last multi tank was a 75g devoted to multi's, had 100's of them along with some gold pristella tetra's as dithers. No matter what I've done to multi tanks over the years, I was never successful in eliminating the algae that grows on the shells. Eventually it stains the shells green. It takes soaking shells in bleach for weeks to get that stain off. I broke down the 75g this summer, miss those little fish. 

Good luck with your tank, they are interesting to watch.


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

Thanks for the well wishes and advice londonloco. It would have been cool to see your tank. 

I've thought about dither fish, I'll see how it goes first with just the Multies. I want it to be as realistic as possible.

Here's someone's Flickr photo of the shell beds in Lake Tanganyika, there's a bunch of cool pictures there really. But Multies live like 30 feet down, no plants. I do have some baby Lace Java Ferns in my planted tank. Maybe someday, but I don't know how well they would do.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fishwhisperer/3820307665/

Here's her picture of some plants in Lake Tanganyika. She says plants are only in very shallow areas.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fishwhisperer/3821082304/in/photostream/

Of course, the fish will decide where the shells and sand go, I just need to get some cool rocks. Friday I'll go to that landscaping company and take a closer look at those dark bluish ones, though I haven't seen any blue rocks in any Lake Tanganyika pictures. Granite sounds like what's mostly in the lake, lots of angular stones. 

Thanks Claudiu. I hope all my ideas work as planned. I need to take that light fixture apart again and figure out how to attach a 1"x2" to the side, to get a 3" profile from the front. I'll be doing that tonight.

Stay tuned...


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

Here's my final drawing from the side of the light mount. My pen was running out of ink toward the end and it got a little scribbly, sorry. It's legible though. I need to get a pencil, doing drawings like this in pen is stupid.









I opened the light fixture, and decided the metal could take the stress of the weight. I just need to drill four holes in the metal and attach a 1x2 to it with machine screws, washers, and nuts. The two 2" long 1x2's will attach to that, with the single 14" long swing arm sandwiched between. It should work like a charm. Not in the picture will be a block to keep the fixture or swing arm from crashing into the tank. 

The balsa shade will be angled a bit more than in the drawing. There will be balsa end plates and a top to make it look nice. I can do all that after the tank is filled, and waiting for the tank to cycle. Bacteria doesn't need light.

The place with the rocks has a website.

http://www.redflintrockandstone.com/products/JD85000

I think this might have been the rock I saw, but I was in my car 30 yards away from the pile when they were closed. I'm confident I'll find something cool now. I'm gonna bring a five gallon bucket there tomorrow before work and see what treasures I can find.


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## carpalstunna (Mar 22, 2012)

have you thought about a 3d background? I have seem some awesome Lake Tanganyika tanks with a foam rock background and it hides your equipment.


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

carpalstunna said:


> have you thought about a 3d background? I have seem some awesome Lake Tanganyika tanks with a foam rock background and it hides your equipment.


I have, and have read that great thread on the mudskippers with that incredible foam creation, but I don't know if I could pull it off. I've never worked with any of that stuff before. Hence, real rocks was my decision. I was short on time before work to buy any rocks today, perhaps I'll do a search tonight and check into it a bit more.

Thanks for your interest.


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

pseudomugil said:


> looks awesome!


Sorry it took so long, but thanks pseudomugil for the compliment. I'm just trying to make the best set-up I can for a reasonable amount of money.


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

Whew, with several engineering problems solved with a rotary tool, diamond bits, and a lot of thinking, here's the light mount. Also used were a hand saw, miter box, and an electric drill.

From almost direct front, imagine a tank up to the joint in the back.









From a little above.









Here it's fully extended upwards, as it would be for maintenance.









Here's a picture of how it's mounted to the stand, removable with four screws. I had to add some balsa shims at the bottom to make up for the top extending outward from the frame. It's plenty strong...









...but it's really hard to tighten the wing nut with just fingers to keep the light from slowly drooping down. Once I get the stand in place, I'll put the tank in place, and then install the block so that won't happen.

The back of the light fixture.









If anyone has any questions on how I did anything, feel free to ask.

Finally to putting polyurethane on all the wood after some sanding. I'm not putting any time frames on anything anymore, I'm always behind schedule on this project. Oh yeah, the balsa shade...

Stay tuned...


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## clau74 (Apr 21, 2012)

Hi , 
Very nice and simple lighting , straggled up and down, swings right or left .
I waiting for the next step in the project !


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

Thanks Claudiu.

I'm pretty happy with how it's going so far. I like designing and building stuff.


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

This looks like it's been a cool project. I really like your stand & light mount, looks great. The pictures that you shared earlier were quite interesting to look through. Neat to see some many different species of fish. Those sponges were pretty sweet too! I'm interested to see the future of this build.


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## kwheeler91 (May 26, 2009)

Cool idea. Have you thought about stretching a spring over the top of the arm to help keep it up? Or an even better idea would be to run a cable and a couple pulleys with a hand crank to raise/lower it as needed. Could probably find old work out machines to salvage parts from. Maybe thats overkill but it just came to me and thought I would share lol. Good luck and keep the pics coming.


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

Thanks folks for your interest and thoughts.

Up close it doesn't look so great, but once the tank is in place, almost all of it will be covered up. I bought the balsa wood for the light shade and cover today, as well as a quarter inch square stick to glue along the metal light fixture to make the shade slant outward. Also, I bought a power strip, extension cord, and a timer for the light. I love V&S Variety Store, they also have fish and aquarium supplies there. Every town should have one. 

Yeah, it would be way cool to dive in all the Rift Valley lakes, and you don't have to worry about getting eaten by a shark. I really enjoyed looking through all her pictures.

It would be cool to mechanize the light, but for how often I need to tip it up, I don't think it would be worth the added work. I rough sanded the wood at the friction points at that flexible joint, it stays put now. I'll still put the block in for safety's sake. As there are two flex points, it would also make it very complicated to tip the light forward as the swing arm tilts back.

I made the channels better for the cord at the corners of the swing arm so it sits smooth now. Oh yeah, I also bought some cable ties to keep the cord loosely attached to the swing arm. Nothing very picture worthy.

Now, break time's over, back to finish sanding on a few spots.


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## DTDPlanted (Apr 2, 2012)

Great tank so far! I really appreciate the DIY approach. Also, I think that trying to recreate your fauna's natural habitat to the smallest detail is one of the coolest things you can do with aquarium keeping! Looking forward to seeing this flooded. I had a mixed african cichlid tank back in the day. I just had a piled rock cave structure for them and they loved it. I miss those guys!


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

Thanks for the kind words. I'm trying my best, though several compromises have been made.

I finished the balsa shade, and picked up 80 pounds of rocks today for six bucks. I'm thinking of this arrangement in the picture.









The rocks were quite a bit darker when they were wet after washing them.

Here it is with the light on, the balsa glows an orange-red color. The glow is brighter than in the picture.









I anticipated the light to shine through the balsa, but not in that color. It looks pretty cool, but it doesn't match the stand very well.

I bought a couple two ounce bottles of latex paint called Laguna Blue for the background. I may mix in a little green, it could be a little more turquoise now that I looked at the underwater lake pictures again. I was thinking of using cloth for the background, but I decided the color just wasn't right.

I installed the block just below the flex joint in the back. It's a little too high, I'll shave it down slightly so the light is 16" above the stand, not 17".

That's about it for now, stay tuned...


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

A couple additions to share.

I ditched the cardboard under the rocks and found a formation I like better.









The cardboard was there as the rocks were wet earlier. The aluminum bar and the ruler are the footprint of the tank, the rocks take up more room than I want. The tallest rock will reach almost to the bottom of the top frame of the tank, I like that. But at the angle how I like it now, it takes up half the depth from front to back. I'll probably have to tilt it less and push the other rocks back more. I plan on using the excess 8" of .1" acrylic from the two cover pieces under the rocks to protect the glass. The rocks will be sitting directly on them, as the fish like to dig and I don't want them to undermine anything.

I figured I should show a little more on how the shade was constructed. I glued the 1/4" stick onto the 3/32" thick balsa shade for rigidity, and as a spacer to form an angle. The top part is 1/4" balsa. Both the shade and top were precision cut 4"x36" boards, so I didn't have to do anything to them. They were all glued together using my fingers and masking tape as clamps.









Just two screws into the 1x2 attached to the metal light fixture keeps it in place. I hand drove those, as balsa is so soft. It's also very light, I don't need more than this, though I may need a shim to make it level. 









One other thing I got today I forgot to mention was a plastic cover for the bulb, so it's protected, and if it breaks the glass and stuff stays put.

I'm getting somewhat close to filling the tank, I can't think of anything else I need to buy, besides fish. More sanding, and painting finally really.


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

A new rock formation, this is getting close I think. Only takes up 8" of floor space from the back. I may slide the second biggest rock down a little. Of course the tall stuff will be to hide the filter intake and the heater. Anyone have any suggestions? I kind of suck at this. 









It's cool the rocks have some relatively flat sides, so they are stable. It's a big plus that many deep rocks in Lake Tanganyika have similar shapes to them, from the pictures I've seen.

Just a little sanding otherwise today, and work is going to get really busy soon. I may not get fish until after New Year's.

Stay tuned...


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## trailsnale (Dec 2, 2009)

Wannaberooted said:


> A new rock formation, this is getting close I think. Only takes up 8" of floor space from the back. I may slide the second biggest rock down a little. Of course the tall stuff will be to hide the filter intake *and the heater*. Anyone have any suggestions? I kind of suck at this.
> 
> inline hydor and a controller are my suggestions.
> 
> ...


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

trailsnale said:


> Wannaberooted said:
> 
> 
> > A new rock formation, this is getting close I think. Only takes up 8" of floor space from the back. I may slide the second biggest rock down a little. Of course the tall stuff will be to hide the filter intake *and the heater*. Anyone have any suggestions? I kind of suck at this.
> ...


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

I think this may be it for my rock formation. It looks pretty majestic, but not contrived, at least to me. I wish I would have picked up a couple more rocks, this is what I have to work with.









Boy, that took a long time. A good thing about posting all these pics of rocks for me is I can compare, and can reproduce it in the future. The middle sticks out a bit, but the side rocks slope back. I decided it was a good compromise.


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

I've been working on matching the color of the background to replicate the aquamarine color referenced earlier, as well as that first Flickr picture.

I ended up with two bottles of Laguna Blue, one Lime Green, one Turquoise, and one White after three trips to Jo Ann Fabrics. I wish I would have bought three Turquoise and one Lime Green. That would have been acceptable mixed together, but I just didn't know. That's the big blob on the third plate from the left.

Since I'm stubborn, and have all this blue, I kept mixing to get the color on the left side of the blob closest to the center rock. I used about two parts turquoise, one blue, one white, and one green to get it. I think watered down the amount of paint I'll get will be enough for a couple coats. Here's the picture of all my test patches.









I also had a thought. Leave the paint a little transparent, and have a couple reflectors to direct the back light from the fixture onto the back of the tank. Just water down the background paint more, and I could mount something onto the light stand. I have plenty of scrap wood, and maybe some shiny aluminum foil. Just a little back lighting, like some murky sunshine. 

No days off for a couple weeks so no chance of getting fish. No hurry figuring this out.

Stay tuned...


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

Sanding is done, I took everything apart to get ready for the polyurethane. Since it is apart, I took a picture of a few things I fabricated. It is definately rough, as no one will see it, and I had to figure it out as I went along. If I did another one, it would be much better.








From the top, the fixture. It had a cord hole near, but not in the center. I removed the ballast, and grinded the hole over to the desired spot with a diamond-studded bit, using a rotary tool.

Next is the part connected to the light mount which is bolted to the fixture.

To make the slot for the cord, I drilled some 1/4" holes, and used the miter saw to cut it out. My drill can only handle up to a 1/4" bit, so I've had to do things the hard way. I finished it off with one of those diamond bits.

It was hard to align everything, I made some marks and used my hands as clamps to keep things in place. All I worried about was that there was a screw or bolt in a place of strength in a few cases. Wouldn't a drill press and some clamps be nice?

At the bottom, the swing arm. I used a drum sanding bit on the rotary tool to form the channel on the ends for the cord. I had the speed way too high at first so I took away more material than I wanted. Not perfect, but it works.

The 1/4" carriage bolts, washers, and nuts, and the block.








Carriage bolts are cool with wood, they don't spin. I roughed up the rubber washers with sandpaper now everything is apart, as those small wingnuts are hard to crank down. A lever attached to a nut would be cool, I may have to work on that.

The block was very hard to locate. I just need to shave maybe a 1/16" off the corner to lower the light to my desired 16" above the stand. I just drilled anywhere after having to do it a second time, as it was too low. I used a Phillips bit for a countersink here and on the stand, as I didn't have a countersink. It was better than nothing, the wood tended to split without them.

Finally, the polyurethane. It's a matte finish, I hope it looks good. Stay tuned...


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## scapegoat (Jun 3, 2010)

.1" thick acrylic? as in 1/10 of an inch thickness?

I think that's going to droop.


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## izabella87 (Apr 21, 2012)

Oh what a great Idea, shellies are soooo adorable. Just for your rockscape, try not to put the ocks all so much in a straight line, bring the smaller ones out a bit more.


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

scapegoat said:


> .1" thick acrylic? as in 1/10 of an inch thickness?
> 
> I think that's going to droop.


Yup, 1/10th of an inch. I was going to take a picture as some people might be interested in the construction of a Deep Blue tank, but my camera needs charging. It will come later.

The tank has a center brace, and a lower ledge all the way around for the acrylic to sit on. I don't think there will be much of a droop once I cut the two pieces to fit. There will be a little space in back for filter and such.

Thanks for your concerns, I appreciate any advice.


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

izabella87 said:


> Oh what a great Idea, shellies are soooo adorable. Just for your rockscape, try not to put the ocks all so much in a straight line, bring the smaller ones out a bit more.


Thank you very much.

You're right, the rocks still aren't right. I took them down to start painting, and really think I'll go back to Red Flint and pick up a few more. I'm just missing one or two more to make me happy. I've never done a rock scape before, it's been a learning process. Iwagumi research and staring at the rocks has helped.

I'm really looking forward to finishing this, I've never kept any African Cichlids before. It's been three months already since I first got the idea.

Stay tuned...


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## clau74 (Apr 21, 2012)

Hi Joel , 
Good job .


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## jerrytheplater (Apr 11, 2007)

I have a tank with Multies at present. You need to be prepared for their digging. They will dig until they hit bottom. Then you have bare glass looking at you.

I am planning on using a Back to Nature Slimline flat background under the sand in my next setup of shell dwellers, once we do some painting in the home. http://backtonature.se/category/rock/ I bought it in Germany when we were visiting my daughter. I plan to have her send me a few more. I visited a LFS when over there. With this under your sand, when the Multies expose it, they can't go any deeper and you get to see rocks on the bottom. Plus it is foam and it will be a good cushion for your other rocks.

Rocks of Lake Tanganyika are mostly Granite and Gneiss. Get a copy of Ad Konings book Tanganyika Cichlids in Their Natural Habitat. It will really help you. All photo's are from the lake. Tanganyika Cichlids in their natural habitat: Ad Konings: 9780966825503: Amazon.com: Books 

You don't need much light at all for your tank. I am using a 10 gallon T-8 reflector on my 65 gallon Tanganyikan tank. I did have high light before with Valisneria and algae. But I broke it down and now have very dim light. It works. Lower light will keep down the algae. I mostly see a brownish felt like algae growing in my tanks. I am suspecting it is an immature form of BBA. I often just turn my rocks over to hide the algae covered surface under the substrate when possible. It kills it and once the other side is covered I flip it again.


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## thelub (Jan 4, 2013)

I love this whole setup. I want to get me some of those rocks. They look great!


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

jerrytheplater said:


> I have a tank with Multies at present. You need to be prepared for their digging. They will dig until they hit bottom. Then you have bare glass looking at you.
> 
> I am planning on using a Back to Nature Slimline flat background under the sand in my next setup of shell dwellers, once we do some painting in the home. http://backtonature.se/category/rock/ I bought it in Germany when we were visiting my daughter. I plan to have her send me a few more. I visited a LFS when over there. With this under your sand, when the Multies expose it, they can't go any deeper and you get to see rocks on the bottom. Plus it is foam and it will be a good cushion for your other rocks.
> 
> ...


Thanks very much Jerry for the information.

I didn't consider the bottom very much, you bring up a good point. I have no way really of getting one of those foam backgrounds, but maybe some flat latex to match the sand color will do, maybe with some speckles to make it look more like sand. Latex is safe in a tank once it's cured, right? To guard the tank from the rocks I was going to use the excess acrylic, maybe rough up the edge to make it less conspicuous and paint that also.

I didn't have a whole lot of choice on rocks, the ones I got were the closest match I could find for the ones in those Flickr photos. I like them, just missing a piece or two. I looked for granite, nothing like in the lake here. These rocks flake a little, they are some kind of sedimentary I think.

I'm hoping my light isn't too bright, but I have extra fiberglass window screen if need be. I wouldn't mind some algae on the rocks, but I hate glass algae. I'm thinking of a 10 hour light cycle. Just by observations so far, it is brighter than my low tech 20G as it is right now.

Hehe, more things to do, but thanks again Jerry, I want to do this right.


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

thelub said:


> I love this whole setup. I want to get me some of those rocks. They look great!


Thanks thelub, I really appreciate that. It's been a lot of fun so far, and quite a bit of work, but it's work I mostly don't mind. Not a big fan of sanding though. It's cool to have the picture of this thing in my mind from a few weeks ago in a solid form now.

The rocks were called Pewter Pride, I have no idea if that was a name Red Flint made up, or they are available elsewhere. This tank will definately be in stark contrast right next to my planted tank.

As promised, here's a picture of the center brace of a Deep Blue Professional 30 Breeder. This is the non-tempered version by the way. I'm sure they outsource these frames, it says Aquarium Masters on it. I do like the ledge, it makes my plan very easy.









Stay tuned...


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## jerrytheplater (Apr 11, 2007)

I once set up a Malawi tank and used a sheet of PVC which fit into the bottom loosely. Make sure you test the fit before continuing with what follows. I also cut the corners off of the sheet to allow my fingers to fit in to place it and remove it. 

I cemented some of my substrate onto this sheet using thick body PVC cement. No need for primer. Apply a good layer of cement to a small area and sift bone dry substrate onto it. Let it dry for a day or two after you finish.

The substrate has to be bone dry or else it won't stick well. Bake it in the oven at 250F or so for an hour or so. Longer won't hurt.

This sheet will be on your tank bottom and the fish won't be able to get beyond it. Plus it will protect the glass.

Make sure all of your first layer rocks are placed on the bottom without any sand under them. The Multies can easily undermine a rock and cause your whole pile to topple over, maybe breaking the glass in the process. I always shake my tanks when piling rocks to simulate kids running by, or other disturbance. Don't want the rocks to fall.

In tanks where I have a glass bottom, I use "egg crate" light diffusers cut in small pieces to cushion the glass. I have also taken an inner tube from a bicycle and cut it up to use to cushion rocks that are resting up along the vertical panes of glass.

If you go to the link to my 65 gallon tank in the bottom of my signature, you will see how I used egg crate in some of the first photos on the first page.


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

Thanks again Jerry, you gave me many options to think about.

I'm going to do an experiment with some thickly laid latex sprinkled with some pool filter sand, and see if it sticks. If that doesn't work, the pvc sheet sounds like it might do the trick, without it being permament which I like. I'll probably use my excess acrylic for any glass protection, as I already have it. Depending on what layout I end up with, I could cut it up like your egg crates.

Otherwise, I haven't done anything on my project lately. There are only so many hours in a day.

Stay tuned...


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## jerrytheplater (Apr 11, 2007)

I forget if you said what substrate you are going to use. Will the pool filter sand match your substrate? If not, do you care if you see a different substrate when they expose the bottom? Your call, your tank.

Where are you going to apply the latex paint? To the bottom of your tank directly, or to another sheet of acrylic? I am trying to think about how latex paint will hold up submerged. Will it work?

You might want to look into a pool sealing paint, at least it is made to be submerged.

You could also look into a Sika cement product used to seal surfaces for water contact. Its called SikaTop Seal 107. You could actually make a sheet out of this and add your substrate into it. It uses Latex instead of water when mixing the cement.


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

I'm using 50 pounds of pool filter sand, and 20 pounds of CaribSea substrate for Cichlids. The Pool filter sand is a tan color, the CaribSea Sahara Sand is white and black. It should look pretty close to the pictures I've seen at the bottom of Lake Tanganyika.

I'm pretty sure I read that once it cures latex is safe in a tank, but I guess I should confirm that. I was thinking of painting the acrylic under the rocks and the bottom glass a tan color to match the sand, then sprinkle a bunch of sand on top of that when it is wet. I would think if the latex is thick enough it will work. Your suggestions might be a better option though. I definately need to do some research and experiments, I'm just so dang busy at work right now.

Thanks again Jerry, you know your stuff.

An addendum. I did some research, but came up with conflicting information, imagine that, on latex paint in the water. I can see it being hard to stay stuck on glass, it won't do.


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

Hey Jerry, where do you find PVC sheets? I've checked Menards and Ace Hardware's websites with no luck, except for vinyl flooring. If I can find some, I think this will be my best option. Thanks, Man.


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## jerrytheplater (Apr 11, 2007)

I think you should not do anything permanent to the bottom of your tank. You might change your mind later, unless you have really deep pockets.

Remember, most times the sand you see on the lake bottom came from the nearby rocks. It should match your rocks fairly closely. Also, the lake bottom is full of small snail shells, especially in the shell beds you want to imitate. There really are not any rocks near the large shell beds, as far as I've read and seen.

See if you can borrow the Ad Konings book via Inter-library loan. You will see some close up shots of the rocks and sand in Lake Tanganyika. The cichlid sand you mentioned looks too fake to me. Eco-Complete Cichlid Ivory Coast has a lot of fine shells. You might want to consider using some of this. http://www.caribsea.com/caribsea/itempage_freshwater_substrates_Ecocichlid.html You could add in some dark colored sand like Seachem Onyx to come closer to your rocks. Dead snails of all sizes are all around. Their broken shells will be in the sand.

I used the Cichlid gravel after sieving through 1/8" mesh hardware cloth to only keep the fines. It was left over from an aquarium I set up for my boss. Free to me. I added in Onyx, Carib Sea Super Naturals Peace River 1-2 mm and Sunset Gold sand. I also added in some Aragonite. But my rocks are a different color than yours.

You might try using silicone rubber cement on your acrylic to glue on the substrate. Add in enough to cover all of the cement.


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## jerrytheplater (Apr 11, 2007)

I buy it for work at a local plastic supply company. Check around your area to see if there are plastic suppliers.

Try here if you need to mail order: http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=23056&catid=733 Look at item 45091 or 45084. You only need 1/16" thick sheet. I don't know about postage.


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

jerrytheplater said:


> I buy it for work at a local plastic supply company. Check around your area to see if there are plastic suppliers.
> 
> Try here if you need to mail order: http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=23056&catid=733 Look at item 45091 or 45084. You only need 1/16" thick sheet. I don't know about postage.


Thanks man, that's what I needed to know. I'll look for that.

Yes I know there are no rocks near the Multies, but it would be a pretty boring tank with just sand and shells, as well as no plants. Hence, it is the Multie biotope, sort of.

These are the pictures I've been going from, many thanks to Jennifer O. Reynolds.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fishwhisperer/3820297451/in/photostream/
Right off an island where Multies live.

www.flickr.com/photos/fishwhisperer/3820291897/in/photostream/
Here she is diving.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fishwhisperer/3821075948/in/photostream/
A multie colony.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fishwhisperer/3820270999/in/photostream/
Oops I hit post by mistake, a little more. This is a close up of a colony.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fishwhisperer/3820269829/in/photostream/
A game of hide and seek.

But otherwise, it's too late, I already have the substrate. I don't think it will be too far off from the bits of sand you see in the Multie colony pictures. The rocks are close to that island picture. Compromises had to be made.

Thanks though for all your insight, I'm just a little too far into the project now. I don't have deep pockets.


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## jerrytheplater (Apr 11, 2007)

Great photos. I need to look a lot closer later. Thanks for posting the links. Jennifer has some great shots.


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## That70sfishboy (Apr 2, 2013)

Following this thread for sure! I've got a pair of these guys myself.


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

jerrytheplater said:


> Great photos. I need to look a lot closer later. Thanks for posting the links. Jennifer has some great shots.


Yes sir, she does. There are a lot of pictures there, what fun that must have been. A great resource for people setting up a Lake Tanganyika tank.


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

That70sfishboy said:


> Following this thread for sure! I've got a pair of these guys myself.


Thanks 70's Fishboy, a fellow Wisconsinite!

This might be a good place to ask this question to everyone. How many should I initially buy? I was thinking 8-10, but I don't know how big they'll be. I forgot to ask when I called to see if the store had them. I'm assuming pretty small. I'm going to do a fishless cycle beforehand. I want them to feel safe with numbers, but still have enough room to settle their territories, and later to increase the colony.

Any advice would be appreciated.


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## spyke (Oct 14, 2010)

Multies are great. I think that 8-10 is a good safe start. And when you get them to start breeding, it's hard to stop. Your 10 will soon turn to 50+. But, you obviously can't keep that many in there. I suggest as soon as the first generation of fry is eating and free swimming, move them to their own tank to raise. I've had them have a batch and then spawn again so you have the parents and 2 generations all living in the same few shells. Anyway, great fish, lots if fun!


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## jerrytheplater (Apr 11, 2007)

Six is my minimum of any fish if looking to get at least one pair. How many you get depends on how much you want to spend. 

Do you have any fish clubs nearby? You may be able to find someone with them locally.

I periodically give away or sell excess fish. I never do anything with the fry-no special care. I let them fend for themselves. I have a friend with a 300 gallon tank with Arowana. He has a colony of Multies in there. The Arowana ignore the Multies because they are at the bottom of the tank. He gets my fish. His have not started spawning yet.


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

Thanks guys, that's good advice. I'll probably go with eight, as it would be a while before I could set up a grow-up tank. I'm hoping the LFS will buy any extras, but I haven't asked them yet. I guess I could always learn how to ship fish and sell them here.

I'm going to buy the fish at A World of Fish in Minneapolis. I've called, they are in stock. It's not a bad drive, and could make the round trip in under four hours. It sounds like they have a lot of African Cichlids, but their website doesn't say much. The guy I talked to sounded very knowledgable.

I don't know of any clubs here in Eau Claire, but I haven't looked either. I should, it may save me a trip, but I have my doubts as this isn't a very big town.


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

YEEEE HAW!!! 14 days of work in a row done, 23 hours in the last 36 was a cruel finish. If there was ever a good time for beer, it is now.

The worst is over, and it's time to finish up this project. I hope Red Flint is still open, we have quite a bit of snow now. Monday I hope to pick up a few more rocks now that I know what I'm looking for. 

Stay tuned...


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## jerrytheplater (Apr 11, 2007)

Any news? Any progress?


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

jerrytheplater said:


> Any news? Any progress?


Umm, no. I've just been too busy, after that one day off came six more on. The work keeps coming, so I keep working. It has to end soon though in the next couple weeks.

I guess I do have a little news, I found a place in town that might have PVC sheets. No website, I have to stop by.

Stay tuned...


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## summerboy1958 (Feb 20, 2012)

*Very cool*

This is great thread!! I have a planted 20 h that I am going to break down and clean thoroughly due to a bad case of BBA. I have mostly annubias, java fern and crypts. Since I already have a successful 30L planted, I wanted to do something a little different. I am also considering shell dwellers, multi's in particular. They remind me of the small blenny's, gobies, sea bass, etc that I used to keep in native saltwater tanks when I lived in Virginia Beach. 

So I could use the 20 h or I also have a track on a 20L (light, hood, filter, etc) for $50. Which would be better? 

Also, I don't have any LFS that carry African's, so I will have to drive a ways or order on line. Y'all have suggested getting 6 or 8, looking for a pair. Once you get a pair, what do you do with the rest of the fish? Can multies stay together without kiliing each other, like other cichlids? This has always been a sticking point with getting cichlids where I live.

Sorry to hijack the thread, but I have been having trouble finding someone knowledgeable to answer my threads. Not on this forum but another.

Thanks!!

Bruce


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

I decided the more bottom area the better for Multies, so I went with the 36x18 inch footprint. Since the Multies stay at the bottom and were going to be the only fish in the tank, the 12 inch tall 30 Breeder was the most logical choice for me. I guess I'd go with the 20 Long if I were you.

As I understand it, they may fight over a certain shell or area, but they don't hurt each other. Loser goes and finds a different place. A mated pair will defend the same shell. It's good to have three or four shells per fish, they will figure it all out. I've read that a dominant male may eat fry if the tank is over-crowded, but otherwise the fry are safe.

If I'm wrong, hopefully someone who has kept them before will correct me.

Here's a couple articles I found that may be helpful.

http://www.fishchannel.com/freshwater-aquariums/fish-breeding/dwarf-banded-shellie.aspx

http://www.tfhmagazine.com/freshwat...arf-cichlid-for-the-beginner-full-article.htm


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

An update, I won't be getting fish until the end of March.

We will be closed at work from March 1-23, so I will be going to North Carolina to see my folks. I'm not going to set up a new tank for a month and then be gone for two weeks, especially with having to regulate pH and GH as I have never done this. I sure don't want to have to worry while I'm on vacation.

Otherwise, days off where something is actually open, and it isn't 20 below zero are coming, I'll look for the rest of the things I need. The Packers are out now, that will also help my productivity. Pictures soon once there is something new to see.

Stay tuned...


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## jerrytheplater (Apr 11, 2007)

Wannaberooted said:


> especially with having to regulate pH and GH as I have never done this. I sure don't want to have to worry while I'm on vacation.


Don't stress on the pH and GH. I use Seachem Tanganyika Buffer and Cichlid Lake Salt. I have relatively soft water out of the tap. I make up evaporation with tap water and Prime. Water changes come back to buffer and salts. I use 3/4-1 tsp CLS per 5 gallons and 1 tsp buffer per 5 gallons. 

I really don't check either anymore. The fish are hardy and adapt. I even have Synodontis lucipinnis in their tank. They are all fine.


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

jerrytheplater said:


> Don't stress on the pH and GH. I use Seachem Tanganyika Buffer and Cichlid Lake Salt. I have relatively soft water out of the tap. I make up evaporation with tap water and Prime. Water changes come back to buffer and salts. I use 3/4-1 tsp CLS per 5 gallons and 1 tsp buffer per 5 gallons.
> 
> I really don't check either anymore. The fish are hardy and adapt. I even have Synodontis lucipinnis in their tank. They are all fine.


Thanks Jerry for your continued help. I'm sure it will all be routine in the near future, but I'll be much more comfortable keeping an eye on everything, and getting fish when it isn't crazy cold. It's all about the fish. 

I took Diana's advice, and bought some Seachem Equilibrium, and also baking soda for the water changes. She said the 20 pounds of Cichlid sand mixed with the 50 pounds of pool filter sand would do the trick to buffer, so I got that as well. I completely trust her advice, but I also want to be around to observe. I need to learn everything.

Stay tuned...


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## summerboy1958 (Feb 20, 2012)

I have been considering Aragonite (nature's Ocean) for my Multi tank. What brand of Cichlid sand did you buy? Dark or light?


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

summerboy1958 said:


> I have been considering Aragonite (nature's Ocean) for my Multi tank. What brand of Cichlid sand did you buy? Dark or light?


I bought CaribSea Sahara Sand for Cichlids, it's black and white. I chose that one as it had the smallest grain size as I read Multies like that, but it was blacker than I thought it would be. I'm hoping it won't look stupid when mixed with the pool filter sand.


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## Overfloater (Jan 12, 2004)

Looks good. I kept Multics awhile back. I still have a bunch of shells if you're interested. I


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

I certainly would be interested. What kind of shells are they?


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## Overfloater (Jan 12, 2004)

They may be large apple snail shells. I don't recall. I have to go dig them out of storage and maybe I can send a pic. My shellies loves them.


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

Overfloater said:


> They may be large apple snail shells. I don't recall. I have to go dig them out of storage and maybe I can send a pic. My shellies loves them.


Please don't go to too much trouble if you don't have them handy. I do have 36 shells already, but they will not even come close to covering the bottom in front of the rocks. It would be interesting to see which shell they prefer, escargot or apple, I'm just not sure yet if I would want two different shell types in the tank. The extra large escargot shells I have really aren't that big though. Here's a picture with a quarter to size.









It sounds like people have good luck with these shells though. After all, the fish are tiny. But I could see many of these would be too small for the fish to claim.


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## Overfloater (Jan 12, 2004)

Now that I think about it, my shells may also be escargot shells. I'm pretty sure they are about half the size of yours though.


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## jerrytheplater (Apr 11, 2007)

Escargot snails are perfect. You will be surprised how they get into the shells. They like the confined space. 

If you want to look at a video I took of some Telmatochromis temporalis "Shell" shell dwellers, here's the link. Towards the end you will see a female going into a Neothauma shell at 4:33. The video shows a female guarding fry. The spawn is in an Escargot shell. The Telmats are larger than Multies, so even smaller Escargot shells will work. Apple snails are good too. Whale's Eye snails are good too. A mix of types is not bad. Remember, there are more than one species of snail in Lake Tanganyika, but in the beds it is mostly Neothauma. 

I have some shells collected in a local pond that have an almost identical size to the Neothauma, except for a larger opening. The wall thickness is much less. The fish use them. I have seen others using small conch type shells. Looks very unnatural, but the fish don't mind.

http://youtu.be/ocQtK9FYn-U


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## boodleboy (Jan 27, 2014)

Hi, I have had experience breeding golden ocellatus and ornatapinnis, both tanganyikan shell dwellers, and have always added crushed aragonite and either mixed it in with the sand or added a bag of it to the filter to buffer ph. It keeps the ph stuck at the mid 7s and gives the sand that crushed shell appearance if you chose to add it there. I also like to leave some bare sand around and in between shells because of how entertaining it is watching the fish dig out tons of little craters in the sand. I wouldn't worry too much about the rocks either as the fish in my experience won't really utilize them. Hope I helped a little.


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## Hyzer (Mar 9, 2010)

Watching a breeding pair of multies with fry in my buddies tank sparked my interest in this hobby. Those blue eyes poking out of the shell...

So glad to find this build. Looks like you've done your homework. Can't wait for some pics.


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

jerrytheplater said:


> Escargot snails are perfect. You will be surprised how they get into the shells. They like the confined space.
> 
> If you want to look at a video I took of some Telmatochromis temporalis "Shell" shell dwellers, here's the link. Towards the end you will see a female going into a Neothauma shell at 4:33. The video shows a female guarding fry. The spawn is in an Escargot shell. The Telmats are larger than Multies, so even smaller Escargot shells will work. Apple snails are good too. Whale's Eye snails are good too. A mix of types is not bad. Remember, there are more than one species of snail in Lake Tanganyika, but in the beds it is mostly Neothauma.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the interesting video. Do they turn around in the shells? I was amazed on how strong but very light the escargot shells are, I was wondering how a tiny fish could move one before I got them. I've read about breeders using little PVC elbows and caps instead of shells, the fish don't care at all. Then they can get the fish out easier when it's time to sell.

I have a three day weekend with not much to do finally. I've been busy otherwise between work, waiting too long to buy a new light bulb for my planted tank and melting all my Crypts, researching and buying my first laptop, and planning my trip.

So, I can finally go check out that PVC at that plastic place in town and do a little painting perhaps. This project is still in limbo for another month so no big hurry.


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

boodleboy said:


> Hi, I have had experience breeding golden ocellatus and ornatapinnis, both tanganyikan shell dwellers, and have always added crushed aragonite and either mixed it in with the sand or added a bag of it to the filter to buffer ph. It keeps the ph stuck at the mid 7s and gives the sand that crushed shell appearance if you chose to add it there. I also like to leave some bare sand around and in between shells because of how entertaining it is watching the fish dig out tons of little craters in the sand. I wouldn't worry too much about the rocks either as the fish in my experience won't really utilize them. Hope I helped a little.


Yup, I'll have 20 pounds of the Cichlid sand mixed in with the 50 pounds of pool filter sand. I've been told it will work fine. The water here is already 8 pH, but the hardness isn't enough. I was told the water company does something to it so it isn't acidic and eats away at the pipes.

Hehe, yeah, after watching some videos of them digging I can hardly wait. There will definately be some bare sand, though the lake pictures seem to show just piles of shells.

The rocks are purely for aesthetics, though I have read occasionally a fish will claim a crack or crevice.

Thanks much for your input and interest.


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

Hyzer said:


> Watching a breeding pair of multies with fry in my buddies tank sparked my interest in this hobby. Those blue eyes poking out of the shell...
> 
> So glad to find this build. Looks like you've done your homework. Can't wait for some pics.


Thanks for checking out this thread. I've been trying my best to learn as much as I can before getting the fish. I just want everything to be comfy for them and the tank to look like it does in my mind. It's beautiful in there. Of course, this aquascape and these fish and their requirements are new to me, so it is taking a long time.

Yeah, their blue eyes are so cool. It's the icing on the cake after all that I've read about them.

I'll have a week of time off after I get back from NC to fill and start cycling before I go back to work late March. I'll have a few pictures before then.


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## jerrytheplater (Apr 11, 2007)

Wannaberooted said:


> Thanks for the interesting video. Do they turn around in the shells? I was amazed on how strong but very light the escargot shells are, I was wondering how a tiny fish could move one before I got them. I've read about breeders using little PVC elbows and caps instead of shells, the fish don't care at all. Then they can get the fish out easier when it's time to sell.


If you look closely at the female entering the Neothauma shell at 4:30 you will see she swims into the shell head first and wriggles out of the shell tail first. The shells are not big enough for the female to turn around.

To remove the fish from the shells: a few days before you sell/give, place all the shells on a platform built out of eggcrate lighting diffusers sitting on top of something to keep the shells a few inches below the water surface. The fish will leave the shell on their own and head back to the bottom. They will abandon the shells. They are not comfortable up in the "air".

I just did this to the Telmats in the video. I gave them all back to the person that sold me the juveniles on Feb 8th. He wanted to keep them again. One thing I didn't do was provide hiding places for the fish when no shells were there. The females were super aggressive and fought to the point of shredded fins. I quickly put in 1 and 2 inch clay flower pots and three Pleco pottery breeding caves. The PVC would have worked. Didn't think of it.

It looks like the pair of Julidochromis regani in the video are guarding eggs. They are holed up in the coconut shell cave and didn't see them for two days. I did see the female today. She was out near the opening when I fed them.


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

OK, I'm back from my vacation. Back to this project now.

I give up on finding sheets of PVC in this town. Ordering it online will be pretty pricey, so I looked around Menards for something that would work. The only thing I could think of was a couple 16"x16" ceramic tiles that look like rock. They would cover most of the bottom of the tank, inside dimensions are 35.5"x17.5". Can anyone think of any drawbacks to using these? Forming anaerobic bacteria in between the tile and glass and poisonous glaze are two concerns offhand. I'll also have to be very careful placing them in the tank.

I did trudge through a bunch of snow to pick up some more rocks today at Red Flint. I have more than enough now. I can't believe they are open all winter. It looked like no one had been back there for months, and half of the pile of Pewter Pride was still covered in snow.

I'll be filling the tank as soon as I figure this out.


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## jerrytheplater (Apr 11, 2007)

There wouldn't be any difference between PVC and the ceramic tiles as far as an anaerobic condition under them. Go for the tiles. Get some that aren't glazed if you can. I've seen tiles that are sliced rocks and looked really cool. Don't know about the prices. 

Try to come up with a way to disguise the edges of the tiles so they don't look like a tile when exposed by your fish. Maybe you could run a bead of silicone along the edges and glue in substrate and rock pieces, broken shells, etc.

I had a major dieoff of my Multies this week. I think I may have buried a few living fish in their shells accidentally when I leveled out the mountain of substrate. Must have had an ammonia spike from their deaths. Lost over 15 fish. The Synodontis lucipinnis and Ancistrus were not bothered at all. Did a 80% water change and removed all the dead fish. I have about 6 Multies left.


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

I'm so sorry to hear about your losses. It sucks when fish die.

Darn, I tried a quoted reply, and failed miserably. Here is my edited response.

Jerry said, "There wouldn't be any difference between PVC and the ceramic tiles as far as an anaerobic condition under them. Go for the tiles. Get some that aren't glazed if you can. I've seen tiles that are sliced rocks and looked really cool. Don't know about the prices."

I bought two tiles for about three bucks, they are about the same color as the sand. I hope I don't have any problems. I don't think they are glazed.

I downloaded Photorazor last night to reduce my pictures of the tiles in the tank, but I got malware. Here's the two worst pictures as I was experimenting on the size until I discovered I had the malware problem. I hope they aren't too bad, hehehe, they might be really tiny.















Jerry also said, "Try to come up with a way to disguise the edges of the tiles so they don't look like a tile when exposed by your fish. Maybe you could run a bead of silicone along the edges and glue in substrate and rock pieces, broken shells, etc."

The two tiles cover all but 1.5" on the sides and an inch in the back. Of course, there is a seam in between them. I may just live with that, and hope the fish don't dig too much next to the side glass. The rocks will be covering the back glass.

I need to get on that painting. Why do I have an aversion to painting? Is it something from my childhood?

Stay tuned...


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## Overfloater (Jan 12, 2004)

I had the same problem with my multi colony. Started with 10 fish and within 6 months I had 60. Then one day I found 2 dead fish. The next day 3 or 4 more. By the end of the week, every single fish was dead. It was a sad sight. I hope you have better luck. They certainly are cool fish.


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## Jack Gilvey (Jun 16, 2008)

Glad this is moving along! I'll be setting up a 40 breeder for multies (and perhaps some Julidochromis and a Calvus black or two) so am following closely. I like the 30 but I got this Aqueon 40 cheap a year or two ago at one of those PETCO sales. Impulse buy, so I'm excited to have something to do with it. I've got 72 escargot shells so far and the rest is in progress. I'll put at least one Val in so I can say it's planted.  I'll have to get moving as my young daughters are already bored looking at the shells. 

Jerry - great posts and info! Sux about the losses, sorry to hear that.


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## jerrytheplater (Apr 11, 2007)

Overfloater said:


> I had the same problem with my multi colony. Started with 10 fish and within 6 months I had 60. Then one day I found 2 dead fish. The next day 3 or 4 more. By the end of the week, every single fish was dead. It was a sad sight. I hope you have better luck. They certainly are cool fish.


Were you able to come to any conclusions about why your fish died? I have never heard of these deaths being something Multies are prone to before. 

I was at a breeders home once and he bred his Multies in large tanks which were bare bottom. He had hundreds in the tanks. He had an automatic water change system set up so his water changes were very regular.

Thanks Jack and Wannaberooted.


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## Overfloater (Jan 12, 2004)

Not really. Cichlid Forum may have some insight on it but I never really looked into it. I was doing water changes pretty routinely.


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

Overfloater said:


> I had the same problem with my multi colony. Started with 10 fish and within 6 months I had 60. Then one day I found 2 dead fish. The next day 3 or 4 more. By the end of the week, every single fish was dead. It was a sad sight. I hope you have better luck. They certainly are cool fish.


Sorry to hear about your die-off also. It's another something to think about, how do you know about a fish that probably goes in a shell to die, and you have too many to count? Are there any small snails that could at least go in and eat the fish?


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

Jack Gilvey said:


> Glad this is moving along! I'll be setting up a 40 breeder for multies (and perhaps some Julidochromis and a Calvus black or two) so am following closely. I like the 30 but I got this Aqueon 40 cheap a year or two ago at one of those PETCO sales. Impulse buy, so I'm excited to have something to do with it. I've got 72 escargot shells so far and the rest is in progress. I'll put at least one Val in so I can say it's planted.  I'll have to get moving as my young daughters are already bored looking at the shells.
> 
> Jerry - great posts and info! Sux about the losses, sorry to hear that.


Yeah, in retrospect I could have saved 60 bucks getting a 40 breeder, and the extra five inches of height wouldn't have been a big deal, especially now that I have the extra height of the tiles added to the substrate. Oh well. I do like the tank I bought though, seems very well built.

Cool you have lots of shells, I should probably get more. Good luck on your project!


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

jerrytheplater said:


> Were you able to come to any conclusions about why your fish died? I have never heard of these deaths being something Multies are prone to before.
> 
> I was at a breeders home once and he bred his Multies in large tanks which were bare bottom. He had hundreds in the tanks. He had an automatic water change system set up so his water changes were very regular.
> 
> Thanks Jack and Wannaberooted.


So the fish just bred in open water, Jerry? My, what randy lads and lassies.

I'm pretty diligent on my water changes, but I need to think of a better way than what I do now on my 20 gallon.

I need to come up with a tool to hang on the side of the tank to diffuse the water when I pour it in from a big bucket. I don't want to mess up the fishies hard work every week. It's in my head, I just need to make it. Or, maybe get an electric pump. It's truly a battle between my cheap and lazy sides, I'll see which wins in the end.


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## jerrytheplater (Apr 11, 2007)

The breeder had shells in his tank set on pedestals about 4x the diameter of the shell. Just enough substrate under the shell to keep the fish comfortable, but not enough to dig.

I don't worry about messing up the landscape on these fish. It gives them more exercise to have to move the sand all over again. Just pour it into your hand to diffuse it if you want.


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

Thanks Jerry for filling me in.

Ok, maybe I won't worry about messing up the sand, I don't think I'll be able to watch enough of their digging when the time comes anyway. But I want to pour from a five gallon bucket, and I need two hands for that. I just use a quart cup on my planted tank, but it's pretty slow to pour four gallons in. I could use it there as well. 

Two days off this weekend, I will force myself to paint.

Stay tuned...


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## jerrytheplater (Apr 11, 2007)

Simple solution to a joint compound bucket pour problem: Buy a 2 gallon bucket only for your fish. Pour some of the water from the larger bucket into it. Pour into the tank from the small bucket. I do this all the time. Allows you to get the water into the tank without spilling.

So far I have not had any more deaths in the Multie tank. All are active and digging. Looks good.


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

Glad to hear your tank is stable now. At least they will rebuild their numbers.

Hmm, I read the warnings on the Polyurethane can, it has some nasty stuff in it. I figured water-based and clean up with soap and water it was relatively safe. As it turns out, I couldn't have painted indoors all winter anyway. As the product requires minimum 60 degree temperatures, I'll probably wait until it gets that warm outside. I've already fried enough brain cells.

More delays, but I can still mix my acrylics and paint the back of the tank. Stay tuned...


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## biotopium (Mar 1, 2014)

Looking forward to your updates!


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## jerrytheplater (Apr 11, 2007)

Any progress?


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

Hey Jerry, sorry I took so long to respond. I've been busy at work and haven't visited the forum in a while, catching up now. 

No progress on painting the stand, every day off I have had lately has had rain in the forecast. Then there's that darn computer game I bought...

The final excuse is my landlord is putting all new windows in, and he needs to do the picture window and wall where I have to run the power cord to the tank. 

It's total chaos here.


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## jerrytheplater (Apr 11, 2007)

We just finished painting two rooms. Now I can work on getting a larger tank for our living room. Thinking of Angels and Dwarf Cichlids.


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

Cool, I love Angelfish. They are kind of like puppies. I haven't kept any in 17 years, I had a tall 38 gallon with a couple back then. Gonna do a journal? 

I got a new door today, and supposedly I'll have the new window in a couple weeks. I have no idea how they are going to get that thing out, double pane about four foot by five.


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## jerrytheplater (Apr 11, 2007)

Journal? Maybe for here. It will be just copies from one on our local club forum. I am not too faithful in keeping journals updated.


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## jerrytheplater (Apr 11, 2007)

I was cleaning out my Multie tank today to transfer some BN pleco's and I discovered the Multies have spawned again. Babies are about 1/4" long.

I may not go with the large tank. Need to see how the finances go.


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## jerrytheplater (Apr 11, 2007)

Any updates? Is your tank on hold?

For me, a new Multie spawn occurred about two weeks ago. Fry are growing nicely.


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

*Sorry to all that followed this thread*

I decided a while back not to finish this tank, as I'm sure those who might care figured out. My other tank has been a continuing learning experience, and it convinced me to go with a Walstad Method tank instead. I got her book as a present, and what a present it was. I want less work, not more, and I certainly don't want to have to sell or give away little fish all the time, much less go through a die-off. So, on to other plans.

I also grew tired of posting, I was in over my head as I'm a horrible typist.

I hope at least this thread may have inspired someone to build themselves a stand, or a light fixture, or a 1,000 gallon Multi extravaganza.

Thanks for your understanding, Joel


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## clau74 (Apr 21, 2012)

Hey Joel ,

I understand you perfectly.
Do not give up your hobby is a way to relax ....


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## jerrytheplater (Apr 11, 2007)

No problem by me Joel, glad you are moving on to what you like. Our hobby should be fun and not work. My Multies are doing fine and by now almost all of them have Operating Engineer licences for all types of excavators! 

Plants don't really survive with them. They eventually will uproot them as they dig.


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## god91234 (Feb 11, 2008)

thanks for this thread, i am thinking about doing a low light, lightly planted ::read as low maintenance but nice to look at:: Neolamprologus multifasciatus 20 gal tank. lots of great information and links roud:


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## miulloj (Mar 18, 2017)

Interesting. Hope you get this and maybe some others. On the light you have a good idea at least as a DIY solution. Just add some long tension springs across the joint and it will help to suspend it as well as decrease the droop and/or need to tighten the wing nut like you have undoubtedly seen on clamp articulating on desk lights. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balanced-arm_lamp


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