# NEW Line of plant fertilizers/additives from Seachem Aquavitro!



## zachary908 (Feb 12, 2011)

Nice, looking forward to trying this out/ carrying it at the LFS I work at.


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## freph (Apr 4, 2011)

If anything, I love the look of it. Very stylish packaging. Wonder what the pricing is like?


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## ClintonParsons (Aug 22, 2011)

After plugging in the numbers in Excel, it's easy to see the difference between Envy and Fuel:

In a nutshell:
Envy has about half the amount of Vitamin C and B3 than Fuel BUT has B5 and "Vitamin B" (Which one?) listed. 

Fuel has B, I, Fe, Cu, Zn, Mg, Co, Mb, V, Ni, Tn, Rb while Envy does not (or it isn't listed at least) 
Here is the link to Fuel:
http://www.aquavitro.com/products/fuel.html
Here is the link to Envy:
http://www.aquavitro.com/products/envy.html

Here is my excel data: All are in micrograms per 1 gram of product EXCEPT for Vitamin C which is in Mg. 
FUEL	ENVY 
C	*5	2.5 *
B1	20	20
B2	20	20
B3	*250	120*
B4	4	4
B5	*0	70*
B12	120.8	120.8
Inositol	11	10
Arginine	300	300
Glutamate	600	600
Lysine	300	300
Tyrosine	190	190
PUS Acids	600	600
*B	96	0
I	180	0
Fe	15	0
Cu	1	0
Zn	5	0
Mg	62	0
Br	300	0
Co	4	0
Mb	15	0
V	28	0
Ni	0.4	0
Tn	0.2	0
Rb	1	0*

If Envy DOES contain those traces listed as "0" it is not listed on their page, so I put a 0. 

It should be noted that Fuel isn't listed as containing B5, but Calcium Pentothenate is an ingredient and Pentothenate IS B5. I put "0" down for B5 for Fuel since it's not listed in their analysis. In reality, I think it's probably in there. 


So why not just use Fuel? It's got all those extra traces and extra C and B3. 

I asked Seachem this on APC and will post their reply when they get back to me.


Other than that, I am disappointed there isn't an aquavitro version of Excel or trace supplement. I am disappointed because AV isn't just repackaged "normal" Seachem product and was hoping for something exciting like a more concentrated product. 

Actually when I saw their ad at the start of the month hinting on the back of a magazine (TFH maybe?) at the new line, I was hoping for an all-in-one solution but nope.


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## zachary908 (Feb 12, 2011)

freph said:


> If anything, I love the look of it. Very stylish packaging. Wonder what the pricing is like?


Probably the same as the Aquatvitro like targeted for corals

I'd expect it to run $6.99-$9.99


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## AirstoND (Jun 17, 2011)

*Wow*

Premier, Envy, Propel, Synthesis, Activate, Mineralize, Activate...sounds like stuff I want to put in my food or hair. might even have to go to confession as one of them is a deadly sin.


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## ClintonParsons (Aug 22, 2011)

Here was the reply:

That is a very good question, JustLikeAPill. In the process of formulating the aquavitro plant line, we actually used fuel on some of our planted tanks here at Seachem. We experimented with different dosing amounts and found that when dosed as directed, the plants did well. However, at twice the recommended amount of fuel, the plants began dying from an excess of the trace metals contained within fuel. envy does not contain these trace metals. 

Therefore, as long as you used the appropriate amount of fuel, 7mL per 30 gallons of water, this would be fine, however, we would not recommend overdosing fuel in your planted system. envy, being designed specifically for planted systems, would be a better choice if you could find it locally.

Have a very happy new year!

Next post:

I am sorry, I actually intended to say that, if you were to use fuel, then use it according to the dosing instructions for envy, which is 7mL per 40 gallons of water. I apologize for that error.


So looks like you can just use fuel if you are like me and it is easier to get locally. You can not order the Aquavitro series online and the Plant series isn't in stores yet, but you can go out and try Fuel today!


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## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

FWIW, Carbonate looks to be similar to ADA Brighty K in that both use potassium carbonate as the K source. While Brighty K is sold as a K supplement and Cabonate as a KH supplement, Carbonate looks like it contains a pretty good amount of K - 40ppm per 49 ml of the product.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

I'm really disappointed in Seachem for setting up this line. Surely we can easily recognize that this is primarily "snake oil"? For example one contains "comprehensive carbohydrate, vitamin, amino acid, and polyunsaturated fatty acid supplement for plants" Polyunsaturated fatty acid supplement? What next - organic polyunsaturated fatty acid?

It's going to take a lot to convince me that there is any benefit from using this stuff.


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## ClintonParsons (Aug 22, 2011)

Try it out, I guess. I plan on picking up some Fuel instead of using Envy (since for me it would be special order and it's not out yet for purchase anyway) and seeing what's up. 

There are great reviews for Fuel by reefkeeps and it definitely affects their corals, and it's essentially the same thing with added traces.

What exactly makes you label it as snake out before anyone has even tried it? They tell you exactly (more or less) what's in all of their products, and even Envy which contains a polyunsaturated fatty acids contains other vitamins. The algae the product is made from probably contains lots of polyunsaturated fatty acids, and they thought it was relevent enough to mention (there is more of that than any other ingredient besides Glutamate per gram of product)

I'm not being paid by Seachem obviously, but I don't think it's fair to call something made my a reputable company with transparency (it's Seachem, not ADA Good-mojo Mystery Juice lol) snake oil when no one has even tried it. Don't you think that's jumping the gun a little?


I'm not that impressed with their other stuff in this line, other than the Fe supplement. I don't need it or ever think I will need to supplement Fe, but based on the description it seems pretty neat.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

The requirements for growing plants are very well known. Agriculture is a science, and an advanced science at that. What we do in our aquariums is agriculture, in that we are just growing plants, providing them with the necessary light and nutrients for them to grow well and healthy. Polyunsaturated fatty acids would be in use by farmers worldwide if they were of benefit. Vitamins would be used by farmers worldwide if they were of benefit. Instead, farmers use ordinary chemicals, just as we do, for most of their plant feeding.

Seachem's Excel is a good product, one that was original, and quickly found to be beneficial, because it substitutes for CO2 as a source of carbon - not a great source, but better than nothing. None of this new line will equal Excel. But, it will make Seachem a lot of money, which is their goal, and that is as it should be.


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

Having messed around with basically everything I could do with fertilizers and plants, I can say from a healthy experience and lot of common sense that most of the stuff they've added to these products have nothing to do with plants. At all. 

While the names are cute, I think for the average hobbyist they are going to confuse a lot more. Call them what they are.... I shouldn't have to learn to translate what their fancy name means in terms of what it is dosing. 


For the comment on disapointed they don't have an "excel" product for this line... What exactly would you like them to do differently with excel. Add some vitamin a? 

I agree with hoppy that this is snake oil. From someone who makes and sells bottles of water with some ferts added, this has gone a little far...


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## ClintonParsons (Aug 22, 2011)

More concentrated without having to buy medical supplies ;P


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## m00se (Jan 8, 2011)

Hoppy said:


> I'm really disappointed in Seachem for setting up this line. Surely we can easily recognize that this is primarily "snake oil"? For example one contains "comprehensive carbohydrate, vitamin, amino acid, and polyunsaturated fatty acid supplement for plants" Polyunsaturated fatty acid supplement? What next - organic polyunsaturated fatty acid?
> 
> It's going to take a lot to convince me that there is any benefit from using this stuff.


I read that list off and the first thing that struck me is that I could probably get pretty close to those ingredients by overfeeding my fish. For 10 cents! :hihi:


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

Envy sounds like it would feed bacteria well. Good looking packaging.

One good thing out of this is we're starting to see planted tanks becoming fashionable.


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

I hate new names. Make products confusing. Why can't they leave the name the same and just change the bottle production.


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## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

"Snake oil" or not it seems plants need amino acids and fatty acids. How they're acquired by the plant and whether or not supplemenation is needed, I don't know, but it is easier just to label things as such.

http://www.plantcell.org/content/15/4/1020.abstract
http://www.priyachem.com/effect.htm
http://www.nutramaxlabs.com/turf/amino-acid-faqs.aspx


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## Rev_jim_jones (Sep 25, 2011)

Jeff5614 said:


> "Snake oil" or not it seems plants need amino acids and fatty acids. How they're acquired by the plant and whether or not supplemenation is needed, I don't know, but it is easier just to label things as such.
> 
> http://www.plantcell.org/content/15/4/1020.abstract
> http://www.priyachem.com/effect.htm
> http://www.nutramaxlabs.com/turf/amino-acid-faqs.aspx


You mean to tell me Amino Acids are the building blocks of life?
Whoda thunk it.


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## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

Rev_jim_jones said:


> You mean to tell me Amino Acids are the building blocks of life?
> Whoda thunk it.


Shocking to find out isn't it? :hihi: It's good to play stupid sometimes then people don't expect much out of you.


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## ClintonParsons (Aug 22, 2011)

sayurasem said:


> I hate new names. Make products confusing. Why can't they leave the name the same and just change the bottle production.



...Because these are new products?


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

I believe we are all entitled to try any product we wish in our tanks. So, anyone who wants to try the new Seachem products should do so. It will be interesting to read about how much effect they have.


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

ClintonParsons said:


> More concentrated without having to buy medical supplies ;P


But why? YOu're still buying a medical supply, you're just buying it for 10x the cost in a different bottle... 

Seachem is never going to compete on price point with other glut options.


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## dundadundun (Apr 8, 2010)

color me not amused. the catchy (useless except for marketing) names and pretty (again, useless except for marketing) packages are going too far. they're becoming the focus by the big companies it seems.

i'm guessing products can't compete with "the scent of the rain forest" unless your tank "makes my tank green with envy"...

shameful marketing regardless how the products work out.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Plants can use amino acids directly as a nitrogen source FYI...........
Not too sure about fatty acids, rather just have them made internally.

You can use something like Fe-citrate or Fe-Glycine etc, cost more....... Get's a source of N and Fe together.

I'm suspicious of the comment made about excess traces causing melting, plants are quite tough, I've dosed some very high ranges of trace metals over a long time, I cannot support that conclusion. Their own experiences might differ but all it takes are few folks doing it to show that's not the reason.


Overall, they have advanced and marketed things as I think they would.

While we might be persnickity, the typical aquarist and LFS is not, and this seems to market and promote somethings vs the competition.

Comparing name brands to DIY, that's not their goal.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

plantbrain said:


> Plants can use amino acids directly as a nitrogen source FYI...........
> Not too sure about fatty acids, rather just have them made internally.
> 
> You can use something like Fe-citrate or Fe-Glycine etc, cost more....... Get's a source of N and Fe together.
> ...


And thats it right there. Unfortunately Seachem is betting (and ill bet they will be correct) that a few thousand people across the country will go into a store and get sucked up while purchasing their new tank into purchasing the whole product line for $XX.XX and wont buy it again because they will have abandoned their tanks long before the need for that ever arises.

"But I used all the fertilizers in fancy bottles on these plants I got that grew in those neat plastic tubes, it must be something I did...sigh".

I don't blame Seachem at all, its just them making a buck on someone that didn't do their research, no bodies fault but their own. 

It's just the way it is. There is an a$$ for every seat and a sucker is born every minute.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

plantbrain said:


> Plants can use amino acids directly as a nitrogen source FYI...........
> Not too sure about fatty acids, rather just have them made internally.
> 
> You can use something like Fe-citrate or Fe-Glycine etc, cost more....... Get's a source of N and Fe together.
> ...


And thats it right there. Unfortunately Seachem is betting (and ill bet they will be correct) that a few thousand people across the country will go into a store and get sucked up while purchasing their new tank into purchasing the whole product line for $XX.XX and wont buy it again because they will have abandoned their tanks long before the need for that ever arises.

"But I used all the fertilizers in fancy bottles on these plants I got that grew in those neat plastic tubes, it must be something I did...sigh".

I don't blame Seachem at all, its just them making a buck on someone that didn't do their research, no bodies fault but their own. 

It's just the way it is. There is an a$$ for every seat and a sucker is born every minute.


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## aXio (May 29, 2011)

I got 2 full sets of this line of product from a Seachem rep that stopped by my store. One set to mess around with at home and another to use at the store. I'm still haven't used any of it yet. I might try them out on a 29 gallon planted system. As far as cost goes. It will be priced pretty similar to Flourish line. They haven't said anything about pricing to me yet, but we sell our Saltwater line of Aquavitro for 12.99 for a 350ml.


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## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

I noticed Trilby Tropicals has them on their site although no mention of pricing so I'm not sure if that means they're only available in their store since I did see Seachem mention they wouldn't be available from online retailers. Since vendor reviews aren't allowed, anyone can feel free to pm me if they'd like to know my experiences with Trilby's.

http://www.trilbytropicals.com/


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## chiefroastbeef (Feb 14, 2011)

Never thought I'd see this type of marketing in aquatic plant fertilizers...


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## HolyAngel (Oct 18, 2010)

Why not just dose SuperThrive? It's cheap, has all the amino acids and b vitamins and such and has been around for like 100 years..


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## aXio (May 29, 2011)

Just got my first box of it in. I didn't think it was already going to be out for sale, but i guess it is. Shrug.


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

That looks like a clean store you've got there. I'm headed to atlanta in a month so I'll have to try to stop by and say hi.

I saw this stuff in stores in MPLS this week.


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## mountaindew (Dec 10, 2008)

plantbrain said:


> Plants can use amino acids directly as a nitrogen source FYI...........
> Not too sure about fatty acids, rather just have them made internally.
> 
> You can use something like Fe-citrate or Fe-Glycine etc, cost more....... Get's a source of N and Fe together.
> ...


 
+1
Well said. 
Imho most all these products, seachem or others are mostly water, but they work for average short term use and by people just starting in the hobby.

md


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## Green Thumb Aquatics (Jan 1, 2012)

I like the idea of adding the additional things into the ferts, I would always stick with the known things that work, NPK, trace/micro, FE but adding additional amino acids, etc, plants may benefit from, could be an excellent idea... I will probably be purchasing some of this stuff and put it against my own product in some 5 gal test tanks.. Always looking for ways to improve...


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## fresh.salty (Jul 2, 2010)

It's just refreshing to see a major company put some effort in something other than their SW line of products. lol

A friend of mine started a SW supplement and RX line along with PC's and T5's, ran it for a few years and sold it. Then started another one, less the light bulbs.


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## wet (Dec 21, 2008)

I got around to reading AquaVitro's site and adding stuff to http://calc.petalphile.com , and thought you folks might like the comparison v Flourish:


```
Source
Stuff:     % 

      Flourish Nitrogen   AquaVitro Synthesis
N:	    1.5			3.2
NO3 
equivalent: 6.6		       14.1
urea:	    yes			yes
K2O:	    2.0
K:	    1.7


      Flourish Phosphorus AquaVitro Activate
K2O:	    0.2
K:	    0.17
P:	    0.09		0.6
P2O5:	    0.2
PO4:	    0.27		1.8

		
      Flourish Potassium  AquaVitro Carbonate
K2O:	    5.8			
K:	    4.8			7.83
dKH:				0.56


        Flourish Iron	  Aquavitro Propel
Fe	    1.0			1.0
```
Now, at first glance all concentrations are higher (which is good!) but I find it confusing there is no Potassium present in the Nitrogen nor Phosphorus supply, when you'd think some portion of the source would be KNO3 and KH2PO4, respectively. I find it interesting that AquaVitro's documentation is totally in paragraph/conversational and not table/number format. I also wonder if Phosphorus means isolated P or P2O5, and if Potassium means isolated K or K2O, as Seachem used to use because of apparent government regulation.

Anyone have insight? Seachem?


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

I believe that agricultural or drinking water parameters are generally expressed as "ppm as K2O", or "ppm as P2O5", etc. And, I think this is just convention, not regulations. Now it looks like Seachem just changed chemicals from the "standard" KNO3, etc. to others that allow dosing just potassium, without the nitrogen, or just phosphorous, without the potassium, etc. And, of course, a catchy name was given to each solution. So, maybe this is an improvement in fertilizing a planted tank. I apologize for dissing Seachem!


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## aXio (May 29, 2011)

I'm going to *only* use this line of fertilizer and pressurized Co2 on my display tank at work. I'm going to use the entire line just for the sake seeing what the out come will be. Now even though I work at a store I'm not posting because I want to promote a brand that will only be carried in store, I actually use pfertz on all my tanks at home like many people on here use. And I'm not very fond of the flourish line dosing schedule. I'll post progress at the following thread...

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/tank-journals-photo-album/162970-my-work-displays-axio.html


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## wet (Dec 21, 2008)

Hey Hoppy. Great thoughts as always.


> Now it looks like Seachem just changed chemicals from the "standard" KNO3, etc. to others that allow dosing just potassium, without the nitrogen, or just phosphorous, without the potassium, etc.


There still has to be a cation though, and to leave it out of the description is, well, interesting. 

It is interesting a company wouldn't use something like KNO3 (since it is cheap) or Ca(NO3)2 or Mg(NO3)2 or something (since we get another macro for free). For example, something like K2CO3 for the Carbonate product makes sense and it is easy to assume Seachem got a good supply for the compound then marketed it appropriately. But to have N-only and P-only products? I *suspect* they are focusing on only one macro per product (leaving out the cation) to make things easier to the consumer, and that there actually is K and stuff in Synthesis and Activate. I don't think that's a terrible idea though it is confusing. But I'm only guessing.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Maybe someone will some day get a chemical analysis of the different bottles and let us know what they really contain. Then we can pat Seachem on the back or laugh at them, whichever seems appropriate


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## madness (Jul 31, 2011)

Those are pretty shampoo bottles.

That is a Paul Mitchell salon product display, right?


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

madness said:


> Those are pretty shampoo bottles.
> 
> That is a Paul Mitchell salon product display, right?


Paul Mitchell, please. This is Bumble&Bumble brother...


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## madness (Jul 31, 2011)

bsmith said:


> Paul Mitchell, please. This is Bumble&Bumble brother...


It was the only line/brand that I could think of off the top of my head.

I don't even own a comb so I definitely don't know anything about hair care products.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

madness said:


> It was the only line/brand that I could think of off the top of my head.
> 
> I don't even own a comb so I definitely don't know anything about hair care products.


Yeah, I get my hair cut at a pretty fancy place (cant have great clips murdering my hair!) from the same woman that has been dong it about 8 years. Plus shes cool (about the same age, ~30) and has bought 2 vehicles from me and sent me many more customers.

I also have a wife, nuff said there....


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## shortsboy (Feb 6, 2011)

They do include the MSDS (material safety data sheet) for everything in the new line, telling you exactly what's in there. The N is a mix of ammonium nitrate and urea. Which at least in my mind sends off an alarm bell, because I've shied away from dosing ammonia as an N source (what with the increased tox risk).

The P supplement unfortunately just says it's a proprietary blend of salts of phosphoric acid, which in the descriptive paragraph on the sales page says it's a K source, makes me think it's probably a ~ 1:1 molar mixture (I'm lying in bed so not gonna try to back-calculate exact molarities based on reported K conc) of K2HPO4 and KH2PO4, which'd give you a nice pH ~7 solution. Nothing that crazy there. 

All-in-all I agree that this is more amfunction of marketing than science. To replicate their products, just use dry ferts at a substantial cost savings. The N formulation still gives me pause though.


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## fresh.salty (Jul 2, 2010)

The LFS drives the hobby. The manufacturers are trying to produce a product that works and the stores can make a profit on. The wise manufacturers are implementing MAP pricing so that the LFS can promote their product without the fear of the E-stores pulling the rug out from under them. Some may not agree but the LFS works really hard for their customers.

I can't see the LFS selling dry ferts to a new hobbyist. These pretty bottles with clear instructions are what's needed for most people to feel comfortable in a new hobby.


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## Tenor1 (Jan 15, 2012)

There are not going to be larger bottles at a cheaper price. So there is a lot more profit with these pretty new bottles. 

How can you tell if switching to the new line is giving better results?


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## AaronT (Apr 11, 2004)

While I'm sure not all of this new line is what it could be I do like that they came out with a dechlorinator similar to Brighty K that is geared towards planted tanks. I also like that the mineralize only has Ca and Mg and not K also like the Equillibrium.


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

has anyone been using this stuff and have any comments on it? my LFS just got it we are all kinda excited and curious, but theres almost nothing on the web reviewing how it actually works.


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## Sambofish (Dec 19, 2012)

Bump


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## DaveFish (Oct 7, 2011)

Just buy Dynamite plant food and make DIY root tabs. Dosing liquids and dry ferts is lame. I have grown amazing tanks with DIY root tabs. Now are you going to say that is for beginners or just plain smart? I rarely, RARELY!!!!!!!!!! dose liquid ferts or dry ferts into the water column. Ammonium is the best source of nitrogen for plants and most plants use their roots to obtain nutrients not their leaves. All these different abilities of plants allow us to do different kinds of dosing. And IMO small bi-weekly water changes with a solid amount of "long lasting poly coated ferts" in your substrate is the best method on the planet. Even you Thomas promote your EI method for status, growth, money, advancement. It is a great method for those who choose to use it, but I don't need it and I don't need Seachem. Good day.

AND I don't need F****** ADA Aquasoil. That is a scam too! Eco-complete for a good substrate with Dynamite plant food will grow Pogostemon stellatus better than anything on the planet. And a lot of ya'lls numbers and assumptions are WAY off. I have used the bottles and know what is in them. They work, they kick ass. Work better than flourish. But you do not need them.


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## DaveFish (Oct 7, 2011)

Envy is just using organic compounds to provide elements. Really that is better because they will last longer. It says it provides all needed micro and trace elements. The cool thing is it is made from just one kind of algae, Tom! That provides all of these. I can't remember which organic compound you derive Manganese from, but my brother looked at the bottle and said, " oh yeah this is probably where the plants are getting their Manganese from... and oh this is where they get there Boron from." etc... Because of what the compounds breakdown to. He is smart as hell when it comes to chemistry. He is a Medical Dr. and is probably the smartest physiologist/chemist/anatomy freak that I have ever met.

I could have him look at the Envy bottle and within a couple hours he could tell me exactly what it all means. And he grows amazing plants and knows all about gardening and plant health. I will do this and get back to you.


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