# Chasintrades's 40B Journal - First Planted Tank



## VincentK (Dec 16, 2009)

So much HC.... Looks great!


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## gringostar9 (Oct 11, 2010)

That looks amazing so far.


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## Lotto (Apr 9, 2009)

O_O That HC is absolutely astounding! Digging that arch you made out of the Seiryu stones as well.


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## Chasintrades (Oct 11, 2009)

Lotto said:


> O_O That HC is absolutely astounding! Digging that arch you made out of the Seiryu stones as well.


Thank you. I am hoping that the fish will enjoy it.


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## Capsaicin_MFK (Nov 15, 2009)

Man that HC took off! Is that arch sturdy or is the rock just resting on the other two?


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## Chasintrades (Oct 11, 2009)

Capsaicin_MFK said:


> Man that HC took off! Is that arch sturdy or is the rock just resting on the other two?


Thank you. I am really pleased with the HC. My hope is that I do not experience to much melt when I finally fill it up. I have been told to really saturate with CO2. 

The arch is something I made from three pieces of stone. It seems pretty sturdy but it may not work once I fill it up and there is water flow. I am not 100% certain but it does seem pretty sturdy. Worse case if it does not work by simply stacking them (I would guess reef tanks have less sturdy rock structures) I would potentially use a small amount of glue. Time will tell.

Today I am ordering ferts from Orlando. I need a few other random items. 

Next week I am going to fill my CO2 tank and finally fill with water.

Right now I am really stumped on plant selection. I have zero experience with plants. I am very open to suggestions. I would like to add 1-3 more species. Something that does not require crazy maintenance but would create some depth and accent the stone work. 

Any criticism, comments are very welcome. 

Thanks for looking.:fish:


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Chasintrades said:


> Today I am ordering ferts from Orlando.
> 
> Right now I am really stumped on plant selection.


What ferts are you getting?

I think an Aponogeton crispus or Aponogeton ulvaceus or Hygrophila polysperma 'Rosanervig' would be a nice addition.


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## chonhzilla (Apr 22, 2008)

amazing!


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

Downoi, anubias nana pettie, and limphomora aromatic


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## Capsaicin_MFK (Nov 15, 2009)

Could add DHG around parts of the stones and then blyxia or jungle vals in the way back.


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## Chasintrades (Oct 11, 2009)

First, thank you all for your wonderful suggestions. I do not know the first thing about plant selections and the scientific names get me even more confused!

I think I am going for the following plant list

Eleocharis acicularis (DHG) 

A few select Downoi and Erios.

Wondering if I should add something "red" to compliment the DHG. 
I think I am going to try a blue background instead of a large background plant selection. 

Anything else I should consider?


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## DANIELSON (Jul 15, 2010)

Love the carpet looks great. I agree with accenting the rocks with some DHG would look great and do a mid size background plant would look nice. Great work.


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

The HC grew like a weed for you. I would used DHG and blyxa to soften it up. Looks awesome!


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## Chasintrades (Oct 11, 2009)

Well I am going on a business trip to SD and LA until next Tuesda.. Cannot wait to go back into Nature Aquarium in Santa Monica.

When I get back, I am going to thin down some of the HC and replace some large areas with more stone work.

I will have around 9"X9" algae free HC to trade for some Downoi and Erios. Hopefully its enough to make some trades...


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Plant suggestions:

Since you've got HC, I assume you don't mind trimming.  You can do something like this: lots of different rotalas as your background behind the rocks, sculped to your liking. Only problem is, your rocks are a bit small to pull this style scape off without the stems swallowing the rocks. It can be done, just ALOT of pruning. 







- courtesy of AFA gallery 

If you're looking for lower maintenance, do something like this: tall HG (Eleocharis vivipara) or cyperus helferi as a background and some midground crypts or blyxa japonica around the rocks. 







- courtesy of AFA gallery


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

You were asking me about sufficient CO2 down to the substrate level for the HC:

For me when I was growing HC, it grew fine with a regular disc diffuser. However I highly recommend misting, even though most ppl don't like the mist look. Plants are able to take up the CO2 so much easier and you kill less fish this way. Yes you may waste a tiny bit more CO2 this way but that's why I have a 20lb CO2 tank . For the 40B, if you plan on misting (via powerhead or needle wheel diffuser), I'd start with 5-6 bps. At least that's what I was doing when I had my 40B with 2x39W t5ho 8hrs/day. If you have a drop checker, keep a very close eye on it as well as your fish for the first 2 days and fine tune the bubble rate from there. If the fish are gasping mid day, turn down CO2. If they're fine at the end of the day and your drop checker still reads green, turn it up 1-2 bps and monitor again the next day. You want to get CO2 to where your DC reads lime green and your fish are doing perfectly fine at the end of they day (photoperiod). 

I'm saying all this assuming you'll be doing EI dosing, weekly 50% WC, and CO2 setup equipped with a solenoid with a good needle valve. 

Hope that makes sense.


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## Chasintrades (Oct 11, 2009)

Speedie/Nick Thanks for the info. I really appreciate the plant selection and CO2 advice.

I have a Rex Grigg built reactor. Is this a mistake?


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Seeing that you'll be using the 2217, your flow will be cut down by at least 1/4 assuming you'll be plumbing this unit inline with the filter output. You will have to get a extra canister or a stronger one with more flow if you wanna run that reactor. PVC reactors are fine, just not my preference.


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## Chasintrades (Oct 11, 2009)

speedie408 said:


> Seeing that you'll be using the 2217, your flow will be cut down by at least 1/4 assuming you'll be plumbing this unit inline with the filter output. You will have to get a extra canister or a stronger one with more flow if you wanna run that reactor. PVC reactors are fine, just not my preference.



Can I koralia it in the meantime? I don't want to drop another $200-300+ or have more tubes in the tank... guess ill be spending some time on the equipment thread

Wondering if the Koralia will not work... will any of these since they would be on the high end of my budget (assuming I would buy any of these to replace the 2217, not supplement it)
Eheim Pro 3 2075 
Eheim Pro 2 2028

And by the way... thanks for taking the time everyone. I really appreciate it!!


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## Hadouken441 (Mar 19, 2010)

Is there any problems transitioning from emersed then flooding it? I would love to do this. Or do you just flood the tank when your satisfied with the carpet? bah help!


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## Chasintrades (Oct 11, 2009)

Hadouken441 said:


> Is there any problems transitioning from emersed then flooding it? I would love to do this. Or do you just flood the tank when your satisfied with the carpet? bah help!


Both from what I have researched, not from my personal experience since this is my first planted tank...

The benefits of the Dry Start Method (DSM) that Tom Barr has popularized is that the HC tends to spread quickly and the roots become deeper into the substrate while not having to deal with algae. The roots along the glass that I can see, are anywhere from 1-4 inches deep. Another benefit seems to be that the cycling of the tank should be much quicker. 

As far as the conversion from emeresed to submersed, I am expecting some melt. The best way to avoid this from what I have researched is have a high concentration of CO2 in the water. 

Here is a link to the DSM
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/g...ion/52332-new-method-start-up-algae-free.html

And here is to hoping that I do not experience too much melt! I do not think I could handle it!!


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## Chasintrades (Oct 11, 2009)

Going with the Eheim Pro 2075. Thanks Speedie. 

_________________________________
Speedie is my spend all my money pimp!


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Lemme guess... you were talking with problemman before you bought a 40B? 

I like your sig


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

Lmao!!!!!!!


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## Chasintrades (Oct 11, 2009)

Pimping is easy when it's a 40 Breeder.


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

Exactly!!!!!


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## Nate McFin (Mar 19, 2009)

Looking good! 
Subscribed.


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## Chasintrades (Oct 11, 2009)

Nate McFin said:


> Looking good!
> Subscribed.


Thanks Nate Mcfin! I love your tank! Definitely a fan... Going to add the Blyxa to this one as well.... Didn't realize it turned red. Saw it in person when I was at Nature Aquarium in Santa Monica.


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## Chasintrades (Oct 11, 2009)

Everything came from Dr fosters today. playing with my new Eheim 2075 (using a cooler). Not sure why... its super silent then it makes noise, then silent... I think its air in there... but I am really unfamiliar with how to prime the canister correctly. After hitting the self prime button a ton... I drank a crap load of water! 

I thinned down my HC carpet. spoke to Orlando today, he suggested waiting two weeks for it to come back form its hack before filling with water. In the meantime, it was suggested to hold off on ordering ferts for a month or so.


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## Nate McFin (Mar 19, 2009)

Who suggested to hold off on ferts? I used EI dosing on mine right away and had almost no melt. The plants pearled like crazy. I did up the Co2 levels pretty high as I didnt have fish.


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## Chasintrades (Oct 11, 2009)

The person I was trying to buy them from told me to wait a month to add ferts since I am using ADA AS. 

I tried to buy them and was talked out of it for a month. I guess i should order them anyway so that i have them on hand?
Not sure exactly what to buy? I am think with my NYC water (but I have seriyu sotne) that my water should be on the soft side...

Was thinking I would need NPK and Trace. Maybe some additional Iron on hand and some GH booster just in case?




Nate McFin said:


> Who suggested to hold off on ferts? I used EI dosing on mine right away and had almost no melt. The plants pearled like crazy. I did up the Co2 levels pretty high as I didnt have fish.


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## Chasintrades (Oct 11, 2009)

i did not get fungus. I kept it moist, not wet. nothing was ever under water by even an fraction of an inch. if you are getting a lot of moisture on the glass, its not even that necessary to mist. 

I also have about 4-5" of slope from the top to bottom. The bottom was never under water so, the top had to have no water at all for several inches and again, I misted once a week, but I always had a lot of moisture in the tank from covering it. Hope this is helpful.


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## Chasintrades (Oct 11, 2009)

well if you need more HC... I have tons. 



agentkhiem said:


> That helps out alot. I was misting every day and the water level was visible on the substrate.
> 
> I have a steep slope as well, but fungus still developed at the top of the slope. Slope is half inch to 2 inches. Top of the slope has dwarf hairgrass, but the fungus still tends get on the grass itself. I can't figure out what I did wrong there.


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## Chasintrades (Oct 11, 2009)

Ferts Ordered, Going to fill CO2 - Filling this bad boy up on Friday!!


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## AquaTEK (Nov 16, 2010)

Love the lush HC, I can't wait until my ground cover becomes as lush. Waiting sure is hard.

I'm really drawn to that rock archway formation, at first I thought it was one piece. I don't think I've seen anyone do that before, very unique. I hope you are able to keep that concept, would be a nice sight to see the fishes swim through it. Looking forward to the future process and establishment.


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## Chasintrades (Oct 11, 2009)

Thanks Aqua - I am hoping for the same effect.

Now - I have been trying to prime this Ehiem for an hour! I have no clue what to do!! All of the threads I find just get me more confused.

I do not have the disconnects since its the 2075. I have been hitting the self priming button over and over (what a joke!!), un-plugging it and re-plugging it back in... I am so frustrated and have been spitting out mouthfuls of tank water.

Does anyone have a thread for a complete noob?


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## Chasintrades (Oct 11, 2009)

it is making a noise... but not so much a gurgling noise. more like a little rumbling noise. 
not sure if it is siphoning. the tubes have water in them, when i hit the self priming button it gets close... but i can see the outflow side start to go the wrong direction and the air gets larger... but does not start running...

Here is how I have it set up. The inflow is coming from the tank to the filter and out first to a hydor heater then into the top of the rex reactor and then back to the filter.


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## OoglyBoogly (Oct 19, 2010)

Chasintrades said:


> The person I was trying to buy them from told me to wait a month to add ferts since I am using ADA AS.
> 
> I tried to buy them and was talked out of it for a month. I guess i should order them anyway so that i have them on hand?
> Not sure exactly what to buy? I am think with my NYC water (but I have seriyu sotne) that my water should be on the soft side...
> ...


This is what is in our water:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/new-york/121100-nyc-5-boroughs-dep-water-analysis.html

BTW you're scape is beautiful. I don't know how my tank became the monster it is when the tank that I saw 2 years ago which made me want a planted tank looked similar to yours. I guess I just like knowing I have all different kinds of stuff in my tank to possibly grow out one day for more specific projects XD


Ahh yes... found the initial seed of inspiration!

http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2008.cgi?&op=showcase&category=0&vol=1&id=185


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

Turn it off then prime.then switch it on.should work


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## OoglyBoogly (Oct 19, 2010)

BTW you can start a siphon by submerging the entire tube in water and keeping your thumb over the end of the tube that you pull out of the water... No need for getting fishy water in your mouth.


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## OoglyBoogly (Oct 19, 2010)

Chasintrades said:


> Thanks Aqua - I am hoping for the same effect.
> 
> Now - I have been trying to prime this Ehiem for an hour! I have no clue what to do!! All of the threads I find just get me more confused.
> 
> ...


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## Chasintrades (Oct 11, 2009)

Okay - easy peasy... I hired my LFS (Pacific Aquarium) - to come here tomorrow to teach me how to start the siphon and prime the filter. Hopefully it is money well spent. I am lost with this part. From here I should be able to learn how to do this and get to the fun part! 

Thank you all for your help...


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## Chasintrades (Oct 11, 2009)

Perfect. The guy was awesome. Spent 5 hours here. I now know exactly how to start the siphon if the reactor is either filled or not filled with water. For me it was money ($125) well spent. It was like a private lesson.

So - CO2 is set up but my bubble counter that I bought from someone is cracked. So I sent an email to Milwaukee. I am running about 3 bps (without the bubble counter connected) but would like to replace the counter. 

Th HC is pearling like crazy and the flow seems perfect (Thanks Speedy!).

I have done 2 water changes so far (80%). I am going to do another one on Wednesday. 

Seems Mr Barr's dry start did indeed instant-cycle the tank. Ammonia is near 0ppm and 
nitrate and nitrate seem to be perfect as well. 

I am thinking on Friday I will look at the SNS for 10 Amano Shrimp and 10 Rummy Nose Tetras.

My eventual stocking plans are 15 Rummy Nose and 40 Cardinals. 10 Amano Shrimp, CRS (or similar), 3 SAE and 5 Ottos. 

THANK YOU TPT!


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## OoglyBoogly (Oct 19, 2010)

Chasintrades said:


> Perfect. The guy was awesome. Spent 5 hours here. I now know exactly how to start the siphon if the reactor is either filled or not filled with water. For me it was money ($125) well spent. It was like a private lesson.
> 
> So - CO2 is set up but my bubble counter that I bought from someone is cracked. So I sent an email to Milwaukee. I am running about 3 bps (without the bubble counter connected) but would like to replace the counter.
> 
> ...


Hmm it's getting a bit cold for shipping of livestock and I've never seen anyone on SNS selling Amano Shrimp. You basically have to remove them from the tank as soon as they are ready to drop to their own little tank. Once they drop their shrimp larvae you have to move the larvae to a saltwater/brackish tank or else the larvae die.

Petco sells Amano Shrimp for about $2.50 each. You could also check out franksaquarium.com Many people here have bought from him and he'll bring the livestock with him to wherever he works in brooklyn. A+ Service from Frank.

http://www.franksaquarium.com/freshwatershrimpfarm.htm


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## Chasintrades (Oct 11, 2009)

agentkhiem said:


> Glad to hear that the pump is working correctly. What was the problem?



The problem? I am a noob!! But it was definitely a good experience having a maintenance call from a reliable LFS. I learned how to start the siphon including the reactor in various scenarios... and without ever needing to suck or drink water. I now know how to start the siphon if the reactor or the canister is filled with water or not. Also learned some tricks with the python and some maintenance tips that I am not sure I would have picked up without this "lesson".

OoglyBoogly
Thank you!! Makes sense that SNS would not have Amanos. 

In other breaking news... I wrote an email to Milwaukee about the cracked bubble counter. Within 30 mins they wrote back and are sending me a new bubble counter for free. Very friendly and great customer service. 

Today I am going to do another 50% WC. 

Still looking for some Blyka for now. Not going to add Rotalas quite yet...


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## OoglyBoogly (Oct 19, 2010)

agentkhiem said:


> I haven't seen Petco in the Phoenix valley sell any sort of shrimp except for the Wood shrimp and Ghost shrimp. What are Amanos identified at Petco as? Algae shrimp?


http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/new-york/84596-lfs-new-york-city-update-beta-49.html#post1187648

That's a pic of what Petco sells in NYC. I'd think they buy from the same suppliers but don't quote me on that one... Maybe they can order them if you ask them to put it on their next delivery.


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## OoglyBoogly (Oct 19, 2010)

Chasintrades said:


> OoglyBoogly
> Thank you!! Makes sense that SNS would not have Amanos.
> 
> 
> Still looking for some Blyka for now. Not going to add Rotalas quite yet...


Heh you're welcome. I actually tried to see if anyone was willing to trade some of their amanos a few months ago (not knowing that it's a pain in the butt to breed them). Someone in this forum informed me and that's one of the reasons why I enjoy browsing through these threads so much... There is always some tidbit of info to pick up. 

Try SnS for Blyxa. I scored an awesome deal from one of the mods a while back who was thinning out one of her tanks. I''m trying to grow some out and if you still need some when I have extras I'll pass some your way.


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## Joe.1 (Nov 23, 2009)

How is your tank? How did the HC adapt to the flooding? I am looking to duplicate this DSM.


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## Chasintrades (Oct 11, 2009)

Hey Joe.1
HC adapting nicely. Below is a camera phone pic that I just took. Certainly some melting... but around 10-15% of so. So it still looks great. I am glad I went through the DSM.

I just started dosing some ferts from Orlando.And since there are no tank mates just yet... I am cranking out the C02...

CRAPPY Cell FTS









SOME MELTING SHOT (It goes like this all over the tank - I am very pleased with the results and expected this to happen).
Again CRAPPY Cell Shot


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## Joe.1 (Nov 23, 2009)

Hopefully that melting cycles through quick and starts to recover soon. I'll keep an eye on your journal to see what happens.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Some smaller crypts around the rocks might ALSO be a good option, nice the arched rock. Rare to see it in a scape.

Make sure the light is low and the CO2 is high, frequent water changes.

You will need to mow the HC often, if you let it pile up, it will form a mat rug and pull away from the soil.

Good growth rates are a 2 edge sword here, more work etc.
I opt for hair grass often times since it's easier to deal with/less trimming.






Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Chasintrades (Oct 11, 2009)

Thanks Tom. I appreciate it. I am hoping to keep up the HC for awhile on this first scape. 

I am getting happy with my C02 levels - some minor tweaking now that my new bubble counter is here. Settling into a fert routine but that will be automated soon enough once I understand good levels. I will detail my auto-dosing routine hopefully soon. I purchased a hospital infusion IV pump. An IMED Gemini PC 4. I have a buddy who worked on its design. My hope is that he can make some mods to it for me to allow for more time controlled choices. The dosing amounts will be extremely accurate as it is designed for human use (accurate = less lawsuits).

Here is a link to the IV pump. And again, I will discuss this in greater detail after I learn if I can make the modifications and once I get my fert routine nailed down.

http://www.cnamedical.com/gemini_pc4.htm


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## Chasintrades (Oct 11, 2009)

Gda!!


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## Chasintrades (Oct 11, 2009)

Just want to make sure I am on the right starting point for EI...

I am dosing the following...

50% H20 change-weekly
1/4 Tsp-KN03 3x a week
1/16 Tsp-KH2P04 3x a week
*1/16 Tsp-K2SO4 3x a week
*No GH booster as of yet 
*1/16 Tsp-Trace 3x a week

I started dry so I am not exactly sure how much water is in the tank since the substrate was wet when I filled the tank... I am guesstimating 33 gallons of water.

Thanks in advance.


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## Chasintrades (Oct 11, 2009)

No! But that makes sense. So about 35 gallons or so...

Thanks for catching that one...

EDIT - started a thread in fert and water paras. 
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/f...ers/122918-ei-routine-first-planted-tank.html


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## Chasintrades (Oct 11, 2009)

Some stocking - it's nice to see some life!

4 otos
3 Amano
5 SAE

Looking to add some nerites and a few more Amanos


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

What's the plan for the main fish? And is your plan to remove the sae when they get bigger?


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## Chasintrades (Oct 11, 2009)

The SAE are less then 2 inches - I do plan to remove them before 6 inches. 

I have been thinking...
30 Rummy Nose

And after that I am still not sure. Concentrating on finding the balance. The tank looks much better with the fauna - they are doing their job.

Been spending a lot more time reading about fert and water parameters then before!!


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## Chasintrades (Oct 11, 2009)

Rescaping the whole thing! No more HC. PITA.


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

Hope to see pictures


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## JoraaÑ (Jun 29, 2009)

Let see the Pictures~!


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## Chasintrades (Oct 11, 2009)

Soon! Waiting for more plants to come... Hopefully you will all still like it. I know that HC carpet was perfect... but the problem was that it was too overgrown and strangling itself. PITA!! 

Thanks!!


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## Chasintrades (Oct 11, 2009)

Okay. A bunch of photos. I am still waiting for it to grow in and have had one prune. 
I am very open to comments and *criticism.* Just tweaking with some parameters and pruning. Please let me know your thoughts! I am still learning a lot.
FTS








FTS 2








Left 








Right








Center








Left Corner








Right Inside Corner








Tonina Farm 








Right Foreground


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## JoraaÑ (Jun 29, 2009)

what is the plant 3rd to last? Lower part is Reddish and upper part is Green...


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## Chasintrades (Oct 11, 2009)

Hey Joraan - sorry I did our not repsond sooner. My wife gave birth to our first child, a beautiful baby boy. 

I believe that it is Ludwigia Inclinata verticillata ‘cuba’ you are referring to. Let me know if you would like some when I trim again. 

With everything going on at home, the tank has been a bit neglected. I trimmed the tank a few days ago and I am back to daily dosing... Tank did not suffer, but it certainly is not at its prime.

I will post more pics in a few days. Thanks!!


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## JoraaÑ (Jun 29, 2009)

Congratulation my friend for the new arrival in the Family...!!!


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## Chasintrades (Oct 11, 2009)

Finally adding some fish.

Picking up 27 Tank Raised Cardinals... should be here in a few days.
As well as a few nerites.


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## Chasintrades (Oct 11, 2009)

And... its official... I cannot aquascape! Had i not let that HC grow on top of itsself I would have nailed it the first time... HC was was too much a PITA for me.

Second rescape was awful! A light has gone off in my head, i think i get it... now on scape number 3... pics soon...


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