# Siamese Algae eaters died



## 91BRGmiata (Apr 29, 2015)

Hi everyone, my first post here on this forum! I have owned aquariums since as long as I can remember but only recently have I begun to attempt a low tech planted tank. My current setup has been established for about 5 months and is a 10 gal, heated to 79F, also using a Tetra PF10 filter. I have a Finnex "stingray" light, one anubias minima and 3 anubias congensis. I recently added seachem root tabs and some microsword which is still alive but does not seem to be that healthy. I've been having some problems with beard algae recently and decided to finally pull the trigger and did an order from liveaquaria.com (only place i could find true SAE)
I already had 10 neon tetras, two cory cats, and two AE shrimp. My ph is 7.6 ammonia at 0, nitrite at 0. Have not tested nitrates yet but planning on doing that today. 

I ordered two siamese algae eaters, a neon dwarf gourami, and a diamond head tetra. They arrived right on time and we acclimated them immediately. Gave them 30min of temp adjustment and 45min of adding small amounts of water from the tank into the bag. After 6 hours one of the SAEs was flipping all around and extremely pale, it died and was removed asap. 12 more hours went by and I found the second dead this morning. Both had green coloration around the stomach. 

I do realize 10gal is small for the SAEs but I plan on upgrading to 20gal in the near future. 

The gourami and tetra are still doing ok and its been about 24hrs since they were put in. 

Liveaquaria.com's customer service was amazing and told me they will allow a re-ship, but recommended waiting a few days until the end of the 14 day period to see how the other fish do.

So my main questions are; Why did my SAE's die while my gourami and tetra did not? 

What should I try to do with my tank before getting more SAEs? 

Thanks for any replies, I'm pretty new to planted tanks and "moderate to difficult" care level fish.


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## HDBenson (Jan 26, 2015)

Just don't get SAEs - if you even received true SAEs. Even real SAEs require larger systems(think upwards of 55g). I would stick with what you have. Actually, in all honesty I would either return the Dwarf Gourami and get more of the same species of tetra or, keep the gourami and get some small bottom dwellers ie Pygmy or, Dwarf Corydoras. And still, get a larger tank regardless.


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## alberth (Feb 13, 2015)

Probably stress from transport. I can only guess. And yeah, your 10G is too small for them so I would advise to hold off until you get a bigger tank. But 20G is still small for them though.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

Yeah, I have 8 total SAE, and they are pretty hardy fish, never lost one (well, I did have some jump out of the bucket once I was acclimating in - they can really jump).

I agree completely with the above, I have two SAE in a 45G and it is marginal - I have little else in there and they are OK. The six are in a 220G and you can just see how they normally behave, extremely fast and active.

I love SAE, they clean up almost anything but GSA, are peaceful (well, around anything adult, wouldn't trust them with any fry). Highly recommend them, but not in a tiny tank.

But that's not why they died -- I would suspect something in their pre-ship treatment or transport maybe. I bought mine locally and pretty close to adult size, but they are definitely hard to find. Interestingly I found mine in a tank labeled "Flying Fox" (they are definitely not, I can count barbels) so confusion abounds.

Bump: PS. H2O2 and a long syringe in that size tank may be your easiest BBA solution. Turn off filter, take 5ml of it with a long tube on the end of the syringe (I use a turkey baster) so you can reach the spot without your hands moving the water, and squirt it directly on the algae. Wait 15 minutes, turn the filter on. Don't squirt it directly on the fish (if necessary throw some food on the other side of the tank). Treat small areas once or twice a day as needed (after several hours there's nothing left of H2O2 but water and oxygen, so it does not build up in any fashion over time). If effective within 48 hours the BBA will turn read indicating it is dying, you might not see anything for up to two days. Biggest issue doing this is delivering the H2O2 into the water without disturbing it, so the algae soaks in it.


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## 91BRGmiata (Apr 29, 2015)

Thanks!, Ill probably end up getting a larger tank than 20G. In the past i always ended up wanting more so maybe Ill just take a bigger step up in size this time.

Ill try the H202 method, it doesn't harm the fish in any way? Should I stick to small treatments at a time? It makes me sort of nervous because my tetras think everything imaginable is food, I use an ear syringe when testing the water, and when I squirt the excess water left in it back in the tank the tetras all come right up to it like its food. I think its just the disturbance in the water that makes them curious.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

91BRGmiata said:


> Ill try the H202 method, it doesn't harm the fish in any way? Should I stick to small treatments at a time? It makes me sort of nervous because my tetras think everything imaginable is food, I use an ear syringe when testing the water, and when I squirt the excess water left in it back in the tank the tetras all come right up to it like its food. I think its just the disturbance in the water that makes them curious.


A heavy dose could, I don't know how badly. I kind of guessed at 5ml (I originally said 5-10 but edited it). WikiAquarium says about 1ml per gallon (that's assuming you use standard 3% H2o2). It degrades pretty rapidly, and I would THINK that fish swimming into a pool of it would feel something wrong and quickly move away, but I think the key is to observe the fish - if they don't hang around in the blob you put in, don't worry.

Squirting into the tank is stuff hitting the top of the water, sounds like food. This won't. Most of us have fish attracted to anything they think may be food, but if you are slow and smooth with this (which you need to be to keep the water from moving much and diluting it) they shouldn't be attracted. That's why I said throw some food on the other side, a distraction can't hurt.

H2O2 is pretty innocuous stuff to non-microbes. You can use it as a mouth wash for example, just foams a bit (in fact strange as it sounds, it's a good idea to do so if you have an open bottle, make sure it DOES foam - the way H2O2 "spoils" is to turn into water, so you can't tell by looking or smelling, and it does spoil over months when open). 

What I did was buy some stiff tubing from a LFS (not sure what they use it for, but it's not airline, it's the same size but stiff), and hot-glued it to the end of a turkey injector (not baster, the big hyperdermics they use for injecting flavor under turkey skin). This is bigger than you need (I'm often treating 220G) so you can probably find something that scales, but if all else fails and you had to buy new parts that's under $10 and works great. Cut the tube to any length you like (longer than you need if you will get larger tanks). The tube should be pretty small in diameter so H2O2 stays inside upside down. 

This lets me inject H2O2 with virtual no water disturbance due to only the thin tube being in the water, so it doesn't attract fish. But it can be done with a small syringe or squirt bottle as well, just you need to move really slowly.










Experiment a bit. I suspect you can put 4-5 times as much H2O2 without bad effect, but start slow, see how much the fish come over to that area - the less they do, the more you can do at a time. If suddenly they swarm where you are, just swithc on the filter and let it dilute the H2O2 and try again later.

PS. Excel can also be used for this, but it's not quite so innocuous, and it takes days to degrade compared to h2o2, and degrades into other stuff. Some people say it is more effective though. I use excel for plant growth, but not this, as I love the idea that in minutes to hours H2O2 becomes just H2O and O2.


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## Vancat2 (Jun 23, 2010)

ditto on the SAE advice. I have 2 in a 58g and they would like more room.


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