# If I were to build a regulator?



## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

I was pondering over trying to build my own co2 regulator, but I have no clue which regulator body to start with. Looking through eBay there are a ton to choose from. Can anyone give me some good model numbers for Matheson, Airgas and Vicor?

Would this be a good option?

[Ebay Link Removed] Gas Dual Stage Deluxe Regulator 8L 580 4 50PSIG CGA 580 | eBay[/url]


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## jkrohn (Sep 17, 2015)

From what I was reading on here that Matheson is an old "8" series and is not that great compared to other regulators you can get for similar prices.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/9-equipment/347826-matheson-8-350-gas-regulator.html#post3497178


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 4, 2008)

Matheson Series 8 regulators are a bit old, and sometimes may have worn out diaphragms. They have been hit and miss for me.


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## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

I posted this a little while back. It should help.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/9...igure-out-good-regulator-co2.html#post8610105

Also check on how beat-up it looks, that the gauges are zeroed out, and that the left (low pressure) gauge maxes out in the 60-200 range.

You can always replace the inlet with a CGA320 nipple and nut.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

kevmo911 said:


> I posted this a little while back. It should help.
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/9...igure-out-good-regulator-co2.html#post8610105
> 
> Also check on how beat-up it looks, that the gauges are zeroed out, and that the left (low pressure) gauge maxes out in the 60-200 range.
> ...


The one I tried to link caught my eye. It looked in really good shape, dual stage and said it had come from some sort of lab environment. It was also relatively cheap, around $60 if I recall. I'm at work now and will definitely look up your write up when I get back home


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## DKRST (Jan 20, 2011)

It's always fun to build you own. After pricing out really high-quality DIY builds several times, I finally bought a couple off the shelf regulators over the past few years. One's an inexpensive Milwaukee single-stage and one's a really nice dual-stage (can't remember the brand). The third is a really cheap/poorly made valve that I got for free. They all three work very well, never an obvious EOTD [end-of-tank-dump] and I run my tanks until they are empty. NOTE: I also don't "hyper-dose" the CO2 because I don't want to push the limit of my fishes physiology that way.

Why do all my regulators work equally well? Because I believe that the most critical part is the needle valve! I've had cheap needle valves, nothing but a pain. A cheap regulator with a quality needle valve gives me no problems at all. I prefer a dual-stage regulators just for peace of mind, but honestly, all my regulators function equally well now that I've invested in good needle valves (and good check valves/solenoids).


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

DKRST said:


> It's always fun to build you own. After pricing out really high-quality DIY builds several times, I finally bought a couple off the shelf regulators over the past few years. One's an inexpensive Milwaukee single-stage and one's a really nice dual-stage (can't remember the brand). The third is a really cheap/poorly made valve that I got for free. They all three work very well, never an obvious EOTD [end-of-tank-dump] and I run my tanks until they are empty. NOTE: I also don't "hyper-dose" the CO2 because I don't want to push the limit of my fishes physiology that way.
> 
> Why do all my regulators work equally well? Because I believe that the most critical part is the needle valve! I've had cheap needle valves, nothing but a pain. A cheap regulator with a quality needle valve gives me no problems at all. I prefer a dual-stage regulators just for peace of mind, but honestly, all my regulators function equally well now that I've invested in good needle valves (and good check valves/solenoids).


I also find this to be true. When you look at our use of CO2, it is not something that strains any regulator to do the job. All we ask is that it regulate the pressure and hold it there. A regulator should regulate, right? 
Once we get beyond that, the needle valve and solenoid are where I want my quality.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

PlantedRich said:


> I also find this to be true. When you look at our use of CO2, it is not something that strains any regulator to do the job. All we ask is that it regulate the pressure and hold it there. A regulator should regulate, right?
> Once we get beyond that, the needle valve and solenoid are where I want my quality.


Well this is the one I found that I tried to give you guys the link to. I also found for the same price($75) a Concoa 412. Which in your opinions would be better? I understand as someone stated above regarding the needle valve being pretty much the most important part of the setup. This is kind of what prompted me to want to build my own versus dropping $300 on a brand new unit. I'd prefer to build my own and know what I have and have the satisfaction of creating something.


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## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

Yeah, that's a Matheson 8L, which, as Darkblade said, is old. And the description is wrong - it doesn't go to 50 psi. Maybe 20. Which is a concern if you might ever want to use an Atomizer-style diffuser. They're also a bit prone to leakiness due to age. The Concoa 412 might be a bit more likely to not leak, but really it depends what kind of shape it's in and what the pressure range is.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

kevmo911 said:


> Yeah, that's a Matheson 8L, which, as Darkblade said, is old. And the description is wrong - it doesn't go to 50 psi. Maybe 20. Which is a concern if you might ever want to use an Atomizer-style diffuser. They're also a bit prone to leakiness due to age. The Concoa 412 might be a bit more likely to not leak, but really it depends what kind of shape it's in and what the pressure range is.


So this really sounds like a crapshoot for buying an older reg. Can you suggest a newer model that should be a safer bet I might be able to pick up?


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## jkrohn (Sep 17, 2015)

So the regulator you linked was $75 + $15 shipping, so $90 total.

I would go and use the Make Offer option on some other regulators (one at a time!) to see what you can get. I abused this like crazy, got a lot of rejections, but finally picked something up for pretty cheap. For example I just picked up item number (Concoa 212) for $65 shipped. It has some cosmetic wear but is working great. 

For example something like item number . Seems great and has 14 day money back. Offer him $90 and see if he bites.

If you're willing to take a bit more risk item number is $90 shipped (but make an even lower offer) and you pay return shipping if it is a bum :-/

Item is $105 shipped with a 30 day warranty, give them a fairly low offer, who knows.

There is always some risk in buying used, I just looked for sellers who either said they had pulled it from a working lab or offered their own warranty. Just don't buy from anyone who is adamant that it is sold as-is with no guarantees. Otherwise Ebays buyer protection should cover you if you get a dud less the cost of shipping it back.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

jkrohn said:


> So the regulator you linked was $75 + $15 shipping, so $90 total.
> 
> I would go and use the Make Offer option on some other regulators (one at a time!) to see what you can get. I abused this like crazy, got a lot of rejections, but finally picked something up for pretty cheap. For example I just picked up item number (Concoa 212) for $65 shipped. It has some cosmetic wear but is working great.
> 
> ...


I'll check it out. I started looking at some Praxair models and they don't state whether they are single or dual stage. Doesn't the elongated body indicate it's a dual stage regulator? This is one that I had found and I'm not sure if it's single or dual stage. The pressure ratings are inline for what I'm looking for and it won't break the bank. Note also in the pic that the left gage is not zeroed out. Earlier in the thread kevmo911 stated to make sure they are zeroed out. Is this an indication of a regulator fault or does it just need gauge? 

I would like to thank everyone for there knowledge shared with me because I feel like I'm pestering you all with questions.


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## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

I'm not even sure exactly what that is. Maybe, as the model number kinda suggests, a Concoa 312? 332 maybe? Praxair and Concoa are sister companies. In any case, it's a nice dual stage. I'd go for it.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

kevmo911 said:


> I'm not even sure exactly what that is. Maybe, as the model number kinda suggests, a Concoa 312? 332 maybe? Praxair and Concoa are sister companies. In any case, it's a nice dual stage. I'd go for it.


What about the gauge not zeroed out? Is this just a gauge malfunction?


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## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

Well, I certainly didn't follow my own advice. Yeah, that might be a problem. You could ask the seller to release the working pressure (should be as easy as opening up the shutoff valve and/or the flow meter). If not, move on.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Well I sent them a low ball offer. I also made and offer on an Airgas Y12-244D last night. They were asking $150 for it. Got a counter offer this morning of $120 shipped.

Update: offer accepted for the Praxair unit $90 shipped.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

kevmo911 said:


> Well, I certainly didn't follow my own advice. Yeah, that might be a problem. You could ask the seller to release the working pressure (should be as easy as opening up the shutoff valve and/or the flow meter). If not, move on.


I talked to one of the steam fitters at work today and showed him the Praxair regulator. He told me judging from the picture that the reg was pressurized in order to show it works and that's why the output pressure gauge was not zeroed.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

not likely.. For one the Max stamped on the reg is 100psi. Gauge is pegged at 150psi...


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## slythy (Sep 1, 2015)

I'm in the same boat as you. I just got my regulator a couple weeks ago, i got a brand new Airgas Y12-215D for $55 shipped. Its nickle plated and looks amazing, just need to get the rest of it.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

slythy said:


> I'm in the same boat as you. I just got my regulator a couple weeks ago, i got a brand new Airgas Y12-215D for $55 shipped. Its nickle plated and looks amazing, just need to get the rest of it.


Not sure on the Praxair now. The back up plan is a Y12-244D. It's going to cost me more though.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

So this the regulator I'm getting. It's an Airgas Y12-244D and it was $110 shipped. It seems to be in great shape but I guess will see when it gets here. It stated in the description that it's brass, but doesn't look to be. Are these regulators generally plated? Does anyone know where I can pick up or order matching fittings? I also just read through a thread and people were stating not to us Teflon tape on the fittings. What are your opinions on this?


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## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

Don't know what you were reading about not using tape on fittings. On tapered fittings (like NPT) you always - *always* - use teflon tape or pipe dope. The only threads you wouldn't use tape or dope on is parallel threads, and the only parallel threads are those that attach the CGA320 nut to the male threads on the CO2 cylinder.

The Y12-244 is nickel-plated brass. Most "silvery" regs that you will see on Evilbay are chrome- or nickel-plated brass.

You can buy silvery fittings on Evilbay. DIYCO2regulators.com has some, as well. The Clippard Mouse and mount are silvery. You can find a silvery metering valves on Evilbay, or buy a SS Ideal valve. Or bite the bullet and buy new through Swagelok or Parker or Hoke.

For the record, the working pressure rise on the Y12-244 is <.26psi per 100 psi inlet drop, or around a max of 2 psi per a full cylinder degas (that's low, btw, and you'll never notice).


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

kevmo911 said:


> You can buy silvery fittings on Evilbay. DIYCO2regulators.com has some, as well. The Clippard Mouse and mount are silvery. You can find a silvery metering valves on Evilbay, or buy a SS Ideal valve. Or bite the bullet and buy new through Swagelok or Parker or Hoke.



Are there particular models I should be looking at? I found a few Parker and Swaglock valves on eBay already.


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## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

There's a whole lot of discussion on valves. Swagelok S series, Parker HR series, Ideal 1 degree, Hoke 1600 or 1 degree 1300 valves are all decent or better. And pretty.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

kevmo911 said:


> There's a whole lot of discussion on valves. Swagelok S series, Parker HR series, Ideal 1 degree, Hoke 1600 or 1 degree 1300 valves are all decent or better. And pretty.


Like this one?


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## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

No, those are the 3 degree stem type. They're not especially precise, and the tiny diameter handles make them very difficult to control.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

kevmo911 said:


> No, those are the 3 degree stem type. They're not especially precise, and the tiny diameter handles make them very difficult to control.


Will this one work? I feel like the needle valve is going to be more confusing than the regulator. I'm not sure on the degrees aspect of the valve. From what I've learned so far this is the most crucial part of the system so I have to make sure it's right. Price in mind I'd like to stay around $50 or less.


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## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

That's an M series. It's okay. You'll need adapters for the tube fittings. And one 1/4" nut and two sets of 1/4" ferrules.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Nlewis said:


> Like this one?


That is a good metering valve at a fair price..
1/4NPT makes the build, arguably, easier and cheaper..



> Hoke Millimite 1300 series metering vale, 3 degree angle stem.
> Orifice: 0.047"
> Cv: 0.024 ( at 18 turn full open)





> Hoke Millimite 1300 series metering vale, 1 degree angle stem.
> Orifice: 0.047"
> Cv: 0.011 ( at 18 turn full open)


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## AlanLe (Jan 10, 2013)

You can remove the barb fitting and put it on the outlet side of the needle valve and insert your co2 tubing 


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

> Swagelok M series metering valve, Part number SS(B)-?MG*, SS(B)-?MA*
> Orifice: 0.056"
> Cv: 0.03 (at 9 turn full open)
> double pattern, dual handle
> ...


http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/9...ves-selection-our-co2-pressurized-system.html


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## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

A while back I tested a bunch of models. The 1300 3 degree stem was comparable to a newer model M (like the one you linked), though the M may have been slightly better. The M also has a slightly larger diameter handle, and it's easier, and cheaper, to buy an even bigger handle for the Swagelok valves than any of the other brands. Bigger handle = better control. But fittings for the M will be more expensive.

They're both useable, but neither is especially good. 1300 1 degree is a half-step up from them, and a Swagelok S series is another half step up. But for $50 or less, you probably won't do better. I'd guess a Fabco NV-55 is about the same, and comes with a larger diameter stock handle than any of them.

By the way, the barb on that M valve looks like it's 1/4", which is too large for standard tubing (1/8" ID).


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Does anyone know the cost of the Ideal valves? Seems you can only purchase directly from them. It also looks like the one I would be going for is the 54-1-12.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

kevmo911 said:


> A while back I tested a bunch of models. The 1300 3 degree stem was comparable to a newer model M (like the one you linked), though the M may have been slightly better. The M also has a slightly larger diameter handle, and it's easier, and cheaper, to buy an even bigger handle for the Swagelok valves than any of the other brands. Bigger handle = better control. But fittings for the M will be more expensive.
> 
> They're both useable, but neither is especially good. 1300 1 degree is a half-step up from them, and a Swagelok S series is another half step up. But for $50 or less, you probably won't do better. I'd guess a Fabco NV-55 is about the same, and comes with a larger diameter stock handle than any of them.
> 
> By the way, the barb on that M valve looks like it's 1/4", which is too large for standard tubing (1/8" ID).


So this, which I believe is an S-series is a better option? I would prefer a 90 degree valve so I could put a bubble counter on the reg, but all the ones I find are $200. I emailed Ideal yesterday regarding the cost of one of there valves but haven't heard back from them yet. It seems that you can only purchase directly from them.


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## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

The long stem on that valve seems odd to me, though it's definitely a Swagelok (though it's an earlier model, which probably isn't as precise as current versions). I'm not convinced it's an S series, though it might be. The fact that the stem is long, and appears to be a hex, is strange. But I don't think those older guys have the model number printed on them, so it won't be clear how well it works until it's tested. At least it has a vernier handle. The block of text at the bottom describes a completely different valve (a 22 series), which this is not. So I don't know if the seller really has any idea what it is, either. However, some of the guys who've done a lot of reg builds, like oldpunk or alan le or darkblade, might be able to confirm whether it's an S.

I know aquariumplants.com sells a brass Ideal, but I don't think they sell the SS version. Most of the talk about buying Ideals that I've read, mostly on TBR, mentions actually speaking with Bill at Ideal, so you may want to try to find a number.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

kevmo911 said:


> The long stem on that valve seems odd to me, though it's definitely a Swagelok (though it's an earlier model, which probably isn't as precise as current versions). I'm not convinced it's an S series, though it might be. The fact that the stem is long, and appears to be a hex, is strange. But I don't think those older guys have the model number printed on them, so it won't be clear how well it works until it's tested. At least it has a vernier handle. The block of text at the bottom describes a completely different valve (a 22 series), which this is not. So I don't know if the seller really has any idea what it is, either. However, some of the guys who've done a lot of reg builds, like oldpunk or alan le or darkblade, might be able to confirm whether it's an S.
> 
> I know aquariumplants.com sells a brass Ideal, but I don't think they sell the SS version. Most of the talk about buying Ideals that I've read, mostly on TBR, mentions actually speaking with Bill at Ideal, so you may want to try to find a number.


Swagelok 21/22 series metering valve, Part number: *-21???-*, *-22???-*,
These are the mystery discontinued swagelok precision low flow control valve, and thanks to kevmo911, who shine the light on the 21/22 series and present the .pdf data.
Orifice: 0.02"
Cv: 0.007 (at 8 turn full open)
owned(TESTED! Due to the small orifice and long needle stem of this valve, the actual CV/turn and flow rate at low turn is a real small number, 0.1 bubble adjustment is possible on JBJ bubble counter)
Kevmo911 is the hero to bring this metering valve back to life...

So I found this one today trolling through eBay. From the looks of the thread I read earlier which the statement above is from, this seems to be a viable option.


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## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

Huge handle makes the 22 useable. Actual precision, per fraction of a turn, is crap.

I don't mean to keep crapping on all your finds. But, due to our (planted tankers', and now even reefers') demand, Evilbay metering valve prices are ridiculous past the point of normal people's affordability. It's often best just to go with the mass-produced, standard needle valves from Fabco-Air and Ideal. Heck, Fabco should, by now, be offering a chromed version of the NV-55-18.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

As to retail, just go w/ the brass 1 degree Hoke 1300..1/4npt.. make life easy.. 
$97...
Item # 1335M4B, Milli-Mite 1300 Series Forged Metering Valves On Circle Valve Technologies Inc.
$70 Ideal new..
http://www.aquariumplants.com/Ideal-Needle-Valve-p/idn5200.htm
Personally I doubt if you'd find much real difference between the Ideal and Hoke 1300 1 degree.

Point is chasing high precision used valves at bare bones prices is fun, but extremely time consuming and with risk..
There is a point where you push past "function" and end up in "bragging rights"...


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## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

I pretty much agree. But there's a 1335F2Y with 1/8" FNPT ports on Evilbay for $85 shipped. It's SS, rather than brass, and it's got a much bigger handle than the stock Milli-mite. Still straight pattern rather than the angle pattern you prefer, but at least it's silvery, and pretty good precision.

Brass Ideal would be cheaper, and SS Ideal would be more costly.

Cv is only one part of how well a valve works for us. Generally speaking, the lower the Cv, the better, but there are a few other factors that can play a big role in low-flow precision. 95% of the valves we use will never be opened past one full turn, and the super low flow characteristics of valves can be really funky.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

kevmo911 said:


> I pretty much agree. But there's a 1335F2Y with 1/8" FNPT ports on Evilbay for $85 shipped.  It's SS, rather than brass, and it's got a much bigger handle than the stock Milli-mite. Still straight pattern rather than the angle pattern you prefer, but at least it's silvery, and pretty good precision.
> 
> Brass Ideal would be cheaper, and SS Ideal would be more costly.
> 
> Cv is only one part of how well a valve works for us. Generally speaking, the lower the Cv, the better, but there are a few other factors that can play a big role in low-flow precision. 95% of the valves we use will never be opened past one full turn, and the super low flow characteristics of valves can be really funky.


Well if I decide just to spend the extra money would you go with the S-series or the Ideal? I contacted Ideal and the 90 degree so with vernier handle is $130 shipped. I found this S-series which I can get cheaper. Which do you feel would be a better option?

Thanks


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## AlanLe (Jan 10, 2013)

You cant go wrong with the ss4 
+ vernier handle


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Save yourself the hassle of "tubes" and get one w/ NPT threads..

HOKE - 1345H2Y - Series: 1300, Metering Valve, 316 stainless steel
http://www.centro-online.com/product/1335M4Y
There is this one, as good or better (somewhat a matter of opinion though) than any you have chosen so far..and a lot cheaper $52 cheaper:
281745270968
hoke 0.010in Cv Swaglok S .032in


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## AlanLe (Jan 10, 2013)

people just like to take shortcuts. Tube adapter is really easy to work with. You just need a port connector then tighten the nut without having to turn the needle valve 360 degree. 


















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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

But you still have nuts and ferrules and tube... 
The only place you use it is on the needle valve really.. none post reg. body, none solenoid..
1/8npt male and you could thread right into the solenoid saving an inch of space. .. May have to take the solenoid coil off for a bit.. 
w/ the 1/8npt female hoke a small ss nipple and your done. 
Not "much" harder lining up those parts than w/ tubes and ferrules..

Granted all a matter of opinion..and neither are that cheap..
Stainless Steel Pipe Fittings Type: Hex 76041474 - MSC
well 1/8npt x 3/4" 72 cents..
http://www.buyfittingsonline.com/Stainless-Steel-Nipples-1-8-inch-NPT-Schedule-40.aspx
http://www.stainlesssteelfittings.com/stainless_316_Hex_Nipples_p/n6h.htm
Point is they are all over the place esp. if one would "accept" brass..


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

jeffkrol said:


> Save yourself the hassle of "tubes" and get one w/ NPT threads..
> 
> HOKE - 1345H2Y - Series: 1300, Metering Valve, 316 stainless steel
> HOKE - 1335M4Y - Series: 1300, Metering Valve, 316 stainless steel
> ...


Easier does sound better, as I have no clue what I'm doing.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Nlewis said:


> I have no clue what I'm doing.


LOL..Humility is a precious commodity.. 

Just so it is clear Alan is correct .that one can "pretty" up the regulator easier w/ tubes..
BUT unless you have easy access to industrial parts (swagloc and gyrolok fittings are NOT "retail" products really) sacrificing a wee bit of look or adding a wee bit of work or compromise using hardware store standard parts is a pretty decent trade off..


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

AlanLe said:


> people just like to take shortcuts. Tube adapter is really easy to work with. You just need a port connector then tighten the nut without having to turn the needle valve 360 degree.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If I go the SS4 route, is it possible for you to give me a list of fitting parts I need? My regulator will be here Friday and I'm looking to order a metering valve tomorrow. I'm going to go with the SS4 of the Ideal valve with vernier handle.


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## AlanLe (Jan 10, 2013)

Nlewis said:


> If I go the SS4 route, is it possible for you to give me a list of fitting parts I need? My regulator will be here Friday and I'm looking to order a metering valve tomorrow. I'm going to go with the SS4 of the Ideal valve with vernier handle.


So you are getting the Ideal Valve or the Swagelok S series with tube fittings?


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

AlanLe said:


> So you are getting the Ideal Valve or the Swagelok S series with tube fittings?


Haven't had time to square that away today, work was crazy. I figure I will probably go with the Swagelok because I can get it cheaper than the Ideal, but I'm sure what I save I'll end up spending in fittings.


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## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

Nlewis said:


> Haven't had time to square that away today, work was crazy. I figure I will probably go with the Swagelok because I can get it cheaper than the Ideal, but I'm sure what I save I'll end up spending in fittings.


In my experience, the S-series is about twice as precise as the Ideal. But take that with a grain of salt, as my testing, or the valves I used, may have been flawed (though I don't have any reason to suspect that). Though either is perfectly functional.

Not sure exactly how you want to build the post body, but these parts go from the solenoid to the metering valve, if it has 1/4" compression ports.

SS-400-2-2 ($13)
SS-401-PC ($6)
SS-405-2 ($2) (I've seen builds without using this, but I've always used one. It goes inside the tubing)


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

AlanLe said:


> So you are getting the Ideal Valve or the Swagelok S series with tube fittings?


Okay, so I ordered the Swagelok SS-SS4-VH to pair with the Burkert 6011A solenoid and the Airgas Y12-244D which have both arrived. Now I'm trying to comprise a list of fittings in order to put this thing together. I'm just going to go with the configuration of the regulator shown above. I'm a bit confused regarding the sizing of pipe fittings as I've never dealt with them before. 

From what I can tell, the nipple coming out of the regulator is 1/2 OD. So this means I need a 3/4 elbow? LMAO, I thought the earlier stuff was confusing, it just took a turn for the worse. 

Also I'm not sure whether I need to plug this port or not. I believe I need to remove the on/off valve in order to have clearance for the solenoid. 

Once again I thank everyone for their guidance and I'm sorry for being a royal pain. Thanks.


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## doughnut (Jul 22, 2010)

I just wanted to chime in and say thanks for the heads up haha!! I've got a thread on building my regulator going and all I have right now (besides plenty of questions) is the actual regulator. I've got a lot of footwork and research to do but yours is giving me some insight.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Spec sheets are your friend:
http://airgassgcatalog.com/catalog/E12_TAG_006.pdf



> The check valve cylinder connection prevents air and contaminants
> from entering the gas stream during cylinder change
> out. This creates consistencies in processes and extends
> column life in GC applications. The needle valve model has
> ...



so the side handle is a built in needle valve. Thing below it is probably a safety relief valve..

Secondly:


> Note! Pipe sizes do not refer to any physical dimensions. The outside diameter of a pipe or fitting must be measured and compared to a table for size identification. A 3/4" NPT pipe thread has an outside diameter - OD - of 1.050 inches.


http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/npt-national-pipe-taper-threads-d_750.html


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## Joshism (Nov 26, 2015)

Swagelok angle metering valves aren't too expensive. At least they're not $200
SS-SS4-A. $110.90. 
SS-SS4-A-VH $140.40

https://www.swagelok.com/en/catalog/Product/Detail?part=SS-SS4-A-VH
https://www.swagelok.com/en/catalog/Product/Detail?part=NY-5K-S
https://www.swagelok.com/en/catalog/Product/Detail?part=SS-SS4-A


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

jeffkrol said:


> Spec sheets are your friend:
> http://airgassgcatalog.com/catalog/E12_TAG_006.pdf
> 
> 
> ...


So the cv rating stated on the spec sheet is .058. Does this make the built in needle valve a viable option.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Nlewis said:


> So the cv rating stated on the spec sheet is .058. Does this make the built in needle valve a viable option.


According to this.. possibly. Think you would need to see it in practice though..

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/9...ves-selection-our-co2-pressurized-system.html


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## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

Nlewis said:


> So the cv rating stated on the spec sheet is .058. Does this make the built in needle valve a viable option.


No, that's the flow rate of the regulator itself. You won't be able to use it, or the outlet valve, to fine tune anything.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

kevmo911 said:


> No, that's the flow rate of the regulator itself. You won't be able to use it, or the outlet valve, to fine tune anything.


Well I already ordered the Swagelok SS-SS4-VH already. I can leave it on the regulator and open the valve and not worry about plugging it. It does look like it will interfere with the solenoid placement though. I guess I can remove the output pressure gauge and install it on the nipple coming right out of the regulator. Oh well I'll get back to figuring out what fittings I need.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

kevmo911 said:


> No, that's the flow rate of the regulator itself. You won't be able to use it, or the outlet valve, to fine tune anything.



Are you sure????
I do know I'm not ..but it does state needle valve on outlet...










I seriously doubt it's precision BUT these are analytical centric regulators..


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Alright here we go. I've comprised a part list from Swagelok's website. 
Out of the regulator output nipple (1/4 NPT) I would install a reducing bushing (1/4 to 1/8 NPT) part# SS-4-RA-2

From there install the solenoid (electrical portion facing down). 

Out of the solenoid, install a street elbow (1/8 NPT) part# SS-2-SE

Install a male to female adapter (1/8 NPT) part# SS-2-A

Then the tube fitting (1/8 NPT TO 1/4 OD tubing) part# SS-400-2-2

Then a port connector part# SS-401-PC

Obviously next comes the needle valve and optional tubing insert to run standard size co2 tubing part# SS-405-2

I could not find a part number for the cga nut and nipple 

What do you think, am I on the right path for the fittings?


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## Joshism (Nov 26, 2015)

Have you considered facing the solenoid up behind so it looks like a tricep and the metering valve pointing forward instead of up? You should consider your options.


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## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

jeffkrol said:


> Are you sure????
> I do know I'm not ..but it does state needle valve on outlet...


Am I sure that the Cv is that of the regulator? Yes. Looks like Airgas has that information available for all its models, and each has a flow chart as well. That Cv doesn't seem to be too off from the handful of other models I just skimmed through. That model also has an integral needle valve, but will it be useable? It'd be the first I've ever heard of that being the case, but I guess it's possible. Heck, might as well give it a shot.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

So here's where I get confused trying to find the correct fittings I need. The first fitting I need is a reducer for the 1/4 NPT nipple to get to 1/8 NPT. The confusion is with the female sides of the fittings. So for the reducer, would I order a 1/4 to 1/8 reducer or a 1/2 to 1/8?


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## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

Nlewis said:


> So here's where I get confused trying to find the correct fittings I need. The first fitting I need is a reducer for the 1/4 NPT nipple to get to 1/8 NPT. The confusion is with the female sides of the fittings. So for the reducer, would I order a 1/4 to 1/8 reducer or a 1/2 to 1/8?


1/4" Female NPT mates with 1/4" Male NPT. Not sure where 1/2" comes from? I'm guessing you need to go from 1/4" female to 1/8" male. If that's correct, you need a 1/4 to 1/8 reducer. If you're surfing Evilbay, that means typing in something like "1/4 1/8 npt reducer" and scrolling through until you find the right type (1/4 female and 1/8 male).

Here's what it should look like:
Stainless Steel Pipe Fitting, Reducing Adapter, 1/4 in. Female NPT x 1/8 in. Male NPT | Swagelok


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

kevmo911 said:


> 1/4" Female NPT mates with 1/4" Male NPT. Not sure where 1/2" comes from? I'm guessing you need to go from 1/4" female to 1/8" male. If that's correct, you need a 1/4 to 1/8 reducer. If you're surfing Evilbay, that means typing in something like "1/4 1/8 npt reducer" and scrolling through until you find the right type (1/4 female and 1/8 male).
> 
> Here's what it should look like:
> Stainless Steel Pipe Fitting, Reducing Adapter, 1/4 in. Female NPT x 1/8 in. Male NPT | Swagelok


The confusion was the fact that 1/4 NPT pipe is 1/2 OD, that's where I got lost. I'm just going to order straight from Swagelok as its easier.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

AlanLe said:


> So you are getting the Ideal Valve or the Swagelok S series with tube fittings?


My Swagelok order came in today and I'm in the process of putting this thing together. I ended up getting the SS-SS2-VH as the deal fell through with the SS4. I have a couple questions though. Should I install Teflon tape on the tube fitting ends? Is it better to install the port connector to the metering valve or the tube elbow?


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

No tape on any tube (compression) nuts/fittings..


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Also do I remove the ferrules on the end that I install the co2 tubing?


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

So I put everything together last night and everything went great. Only problem I have is the co2 tubing will not fit into the compression nut on the metering valve. Any ideas or suggestions?


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## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

The SS2 has 1/8" OD fittings, so you're going to need an adapter.

SS-2-HC-A-201
-OR-
SS-400-R-2

If you go with the second option, I also recommend
SS-405-2
...though I'm told it's not strictly necessary to use one, my guess is it makes for a more secure seal.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

So I got the system up and running today and all seems to be working well but I have not checked for leaks yet. I do think I will be looking into a better way of diffusion as I don't like the looks of a billion bubbles floating around the tank. The atomizer is sitting underneath the spray bar and I guess I could move it. Does it hurt to have it in an area that allows the bubbles to just float to the top? I know that will hurt the dispurtion of the co2 and take it longer to build up.


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## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

Nlewis said:


> My Swagelok order came in today and I'm in the process of putting this thing together. I ended up getting the SS-SS2-VH as the deal fell through with the SS4. I have a couple questions though. Should I install Teflon tape on the tube fitting ends? Is it better to install the port connector to the metering valve or the tube elbow?


That's a LOT of PTFE on those fittings. You should always stay away from the last few threads of the fitting when taping so you don't accidentally shred fine little pieces of it that could potentially end up downstream in your solenoid or metering valve. 

As for the bubbles question, the longer they're in the water column before hitting the top the better.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Dead2fall said:


> That's a LOT of PTFE on those fittings. You should always stay away from the last few threads of the fitting when taping so you don't accidentally shred fine little pieces of it that could potentially end up downstream in your solenoid or metering valve.
> 
> As for the bubbles question, the longer they're in the water column before hitting the top the better.


I trimmed it all up before mating the fittings.


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