# Pea Puffer+Betta=Disaster????



## Phoenix-cry

The puffers will most likely eat the betta's fins...


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## VincentK

Wha?!?!?!?! Wouldn't the betta fight back? and then the puffers will know not to mess with it?


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## SamH

I wouldn't risk it. Unless it was a PK Betta.

I once put two small Kribs in my betta's tank, he had nearly no fins in no time 

Pea puffers are probably worse, choose one or the other.


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## VincentK

Alright, I will just keep my betta in my 2.5, and put the 3 DPs in my 5.5 gallon, and I might as well throw in some ghost shrimp to act as cleaners/food, any good fish mates that would be good with them? I know otos but IDK if there will be enough algae


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## rich815

5.5 is *way* too small for 3 puffers, even dwarfs. Put that many together in that small a tank is irresponsible, please do not do it. 

From www.dwarfpuffers.com

_"Even though they are small in size, dwarves need roughly 5 gallons per fish to have adequate space. They will become aggressive to one another if cramped too tightly together. They also become more aggressive as they age, particularly with sexual maturity. Make sure to keep this in mind when choosing your tank size as well as stocking it."_

And no, they DO NOT get along with bettas, or practically any other fish, and the ghosts will become fast puffer food likely.

_"Dwarf Puffers are definitely not community fish and are best kept in a small species setup."_

Please do some reading before you get these.


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## Aquarist_Fist

I absolutely second every single word in rich's post! It's good you are asking here before you buy. That puffer website is a great read and will tell you everything you need to know.

Get one puffer for the tank and keep him alone. They hate company anyway, so they won't be lonely. Puffers are smart and fun and can actually become your "buddies." But they have a worse character than Darth Vader.


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## VincentK

well i want to have SOMETHING else in there with them, and at the store, they had them in a tank roughly the size of a 2.5 gallon and they were all together not fighting or anything


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## rich815

VincentK said:


> well i want to have SOMETHING else in there with them, and at the store, they had them in a tank roughly the size of a 2.5 gallon and they were all together not fighting or anything


At Thanksgiving we had 30 people in my house, but we don't live together.

If you want to have SOMETHING Else in there then do not get a puffer. It's simple as that.


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## VincentK

I meant like ghost shrimp, which I wouldnt mind if they were used as food or cleaning


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## F22

i try to house them seperately at work too, they are simply tooo aggressive for a community tank, and when put together they will destroy eachother,


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## VincentK

Well, I might just get 2 now, or 1 plus ghost shrimp for it to pick on


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## will5

VincentK said:


> Well, I might just get 2 now, or 1 plus ghost shrimp for it to pick on


If you were not going to listen to any advice given then why did you ask in the first place?:icon_roll


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## F22

just get 1.


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## VincentK

Yes, I'm just gonna get one now, but I wanted to know if bettas would do well w/ the DPs, and after researching on the website, I found that they can do 3 gallons per fish, but I'm just going to get one with some shrimp for it to eat or something


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## VincentK

alright I read on dwarfpuffers.com that they do well with FW bumblebee gobies, apparently there are a FW goby and SW goby, something do with the stripes, here's the link http://dwarfpuffers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6105


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## AkCrimson

Yeah but a 5.5 is not large enough for a goby and a puffer. If there was more space, say, a 10 gallon, then the DP might not pick on the goby. But in such a small space it will get harassed. Puffers are active and like to explore...they also get bored easily and are simply very aggressive. A 5.5 gallon is simply just not large enough for more than just one DP. They prefer to be alone.

Think logically, you don't want to spend all this money on the setup and the fish only to have them die, do you?


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## rich815




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## VincentK

Alright, I meant one dwarf puffer and one bumblebee goby, or would that still be too much?


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## steve_dowg2001

i had a dwarf puffer in my 26 gallon bowfront and he did really good. i had a big blue gouranmi and he chased the puffer around at first. then after that the puffer never messed with anything. but i wouldent put a puffer in a 5 gallon.They like high protein blood worms beer heart and that would get the 5 gallon all dirty and it really isent much space.He mite be alright it there by himself but hed be bored. better off with a group of neons or cardinal tetras id think.


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## VincentK

err, i don't have beer (beef?) heart, and blood worms aren't that dirty, i feed em to my betta


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## A Hill

Can you please listen to what everyone is saying??? 

ONLY A PUFFER! OR SOMETHING ELSE!!

Maybe caps lock helps...

-Andrew


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## VincentK

OK, then how about just one dwarf puffer along with a couple ghost shrimp? no one has answered my question on that - (I'm just throwing out ideas)


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## AkCrimson

If you feel like feeding your puffer shrimp....


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## rich815

VincentK said:


> OK, then how about just one dwarf puffer along with a couple ghost shrimp? no one has answered my question on that - (I'm just throwing out ideas)


So, when I said "the ghosts will become fast puffer food" in post #6 above, to you that meant......what?

Put aside the answers you WANT to hear and instead read and listen to what everyone is saying.


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## lauraleellbp

rich815 said:


> Put aside the answers you WANT to hear and instead read and listen to what everyone is saying.


+1

If you ask often enough, it IS likely you'll get someone to tell you what you want to hear.

Still doesn't mean it will work, though.


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## Aquarist_Fist

Give the poor guy a break. At least he's asking rather than just running to the fish store like so many others. If he now started to actually listen... 

Vincent, the thing with puffers is that they are very atypical aquarium fish. Usually, fish are not pets in the traditional sense. We try to give them a natural environment to study their natural behavior. Few people like fish that become too 'human.' Puffers on the other hand WILL become quite tame. They will recognize you, they will come to the glass to see what you are doing - some even say tame puffers like to be petted. On the other hand, a natural environment with multiple individuals would require a very large tank where the puffers rarely run into each other.


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## AkCrimson

Puffers are generally very hard to care for. They need a weekly serving of snails, as they have to keep their "teeth" filed, and do better on live food anyhow. They also need plenty of good structure. Puffers simply do not get along with any other fish, period. 

If you want a 10gal with more than one species, you are just going to have to skip on the puffer. 

Listen to us, we know what we are talking about.


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## VincentK

OK, thank you Aquarist Fist, and @rich815, yes I know they may become food, as I previously stated, I will use them as food or as cleaning the bottom of the tank/plants "I meant like ghost shrimp, which I wouldnt mind if they were used as food or cleaning" (IDK how to input quotes), I just wanted to know if that would be OK if there were ghost shrimp in along with the puffers, and thank you to everyone who informed me I can only have one puffer in a tank of the size, and not two or three puffers instead, but what I don't see how you told me multiple times that I can't have any shrimp in with just the one dwarf puffer, you can put shrimp, as it even says so on the website (besides aren't ghost shrimp used as feeders anyway?). Lastly @AkCrimson I read that Dwarf Puffers don't need to sharpen their beaks, as their beaks seem fragile enough to be self-grinding from normal chewing. I AM listening to what you all are saying, I just made a mistake assuming I could keep two instead of three (I'm only getting one), again thank you Aquarist Fist, as I know I am stupid and cannot listen well, but you were kind enough not to nail me on it


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## VincentK

One more question, I understand that I can't keep a bumblebee goby with a dwarf puffer in a 5.5 gallon, but I just want to know why? Is it because the bioload would be too much on the tank? Or is it because the tank is simply too small and the dwarf puffer would harass the goby to death? Or is it another reason? Just want to know why, so I can get a better understanding of fish keeping...?


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## kcirtappatrick

i'm guessing the puffer would harass the goby.


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## jflng

I will tell you what you want to hear. You can keep a dwarf puffer with ghost shrimp, but there is a very good chance that the shrimp will become puffer food. I've had some that never touched shrimp, and others tore them to pieces. They all seem to have different personalities.

Dwarf puffers don't necessarily need to eat snails, but it is advisable to feed them some once in a while. Try to also vary their diet as much as possible with tasty snacks such as mosquito larvae. If it does eat shrimp, consider it a bonus. It's good for them. They enjoy the hunt, and it's fun to watch.

Get one puffer and some shrimp. Don't over do it with a goby in a tank that size. Plant the tank well, and keep the water clean. They're relatively easy to care for, and make great pets. Before long, it'll be your favorite fish.


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## VincentK

Alright thank you for actually answering my question jflng, i know they may become food, but that's the whole point =), and I'm guessing those pest snails, Trumpet Snails would be ok for them to eat? Because I heard they're relatively easy to breed, The tank is planted, I have some java moss, dwarf hairgrass, an amazon sword, and a banana plant, but idk if it is planted well enough. Yeah, I'm just going to get a Dwarf Puffer and some ghost shrimp occasionally.


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## VincentK

Here is a pic of my tank so far, I want to add some more plants, but IDK which, please tell me if this would be alright for a Dwarf puffer


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## Tu13es

You'll probably want to plant a lot more heavily if you plan to get puffers. They get bored without places to explore and whatnot.

I haven't fed my puffers shrimp, but if they eat shrimp the way they eat snails, you'd be needing more shrimp after just a few minutes...


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## jflng

Trumpet snail shells are very hard. There is a possibility that the puffer could break its teeth on their shells. That said, I have never heard of, or actually seen it happen. Dwarf puffers usually suck the snails out, rather than crunch the shells. You can probably get away with feeding larger trumpets, but I would recommend against tiny trumpet snails. You can always get freebie pest snails from your LFS.

I agree with Tu13es. Plant a little more, or add more decorations.


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## VincentK

Yeah, I want to add more plants, I want some taller/larger ones, any ideas?


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## waterfaller1

AkCrimson said:


> They need a weekly serving of snails, as they have to keep their "teeth" filed, .


No they do not


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## VincentK

Yeah, they don't, I think you're right that most other puffers need them, but I know that dwarf puffers are an exception and just suck the snails outta their shells


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## rich815

VincentK said:


> Yeah, they don't, I think you're right that most other puffers need them, but I know that dwarf puffers are an exception and just suck the snails outta their shells


Do they ever! I had a load of ramshorns in my 72 gal a couple years back. Added in two dwarfies and in less than a couple weeks nary a snail was found ANYWHERE. Unfortunately at the time I did not know any better on the non-community nature of them and although the tank was large and heavily planted which helped some there was occasional trouble here and there. Eventually one jumped out of the tank to die on the floor and I gave the other away. But snail-demons they are!


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## VincentK

Really? I didn't know they could eat snails that large, just the small ones like trumpet snails, but yeah, i think it's kind of cool how they just slurp them out of the shells, I will see if the store I will get my puffer from has any unwanted trumpet snails


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## sewingalot

Vincent, read this link: http://www.dwarfpuffers.com/rensaquarium.htm It's an excellent article on puffers and the puffer is housed in a smaller tank similar to yours.


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## VincentK

thanks sewing but that article is talking more about breeding them


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## VincentK

Hey, I just want to say thanks to EVERYONE who had the patience to keep answering my questions, telling me my mistakes, etc. You saved me from making the mistake of buying more than I can handle, I will update in a couple days when I actually go and get the puffer, or you can read my journal (i feel bad and cheap for advertising) =)


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## rengb6

I considered keeping dwarf puffers once but then I came across dario dario (scarlet badis) and they are beautiful! in a 5.5 gallon you could probably fit two and maybe some shrimp! They grow to be between .5 to .75 inches. Look into these or a few other fish, I think you could find a few other species that you'll be able to keep more than one of in your tank. However, these definitely cant go in with betta! and there is a possibility they will eat your shrimp so get cheap ghost shrimp like you were planning on. Oh and you will need to add some more plants for the scarlet badis if you decide to get it. Good Luck and I'll keep up with your journal!


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## waterfaller1

Scarlet badis won't eat shrimp.:wink:


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## amcoffeegirl

*puffer*

I did actually have 2 puffers in a 5.5 gallon and one did kill the other. I put in pond snails and trumpet snails the dwarf puffer ate the pond snails bout a dozen in two minutes i put them in about once a month. the trumpet snails bred like crazy and mostly stayed under the gravel (i do believe the shells were too hard for the puffer) 

I kept my puffer in with a _Ctenopoma acutirostre or leopard spotted fish after 2 years together the spotted fish did eat the puffer but i learned alot about taking advice and putting together a long lasting 5.5 gallon. _

_I do love puffers and hope to have one again someday._

_take care and happy holidays._


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## VincentK

Yeah, I just added some water sprite, Anacharis, and hygro difformis, those came with about a half dozen of trumpet snails, which i'm hoping will breed before I get my dwarf puffer


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## waterfaller1

What I found very helpful in keeping dwarf puffers was keeping a separate small tank for pond snails. MTS are really not suitable, pond snails are much easier for them to eat. I would feed them directly to him, and what he left behind I returned to my 'snail farm'. There are people on this forum who would gladly share them with you for very little cost, probably just shipping. Good luck.


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## VincentK

I thought pond snails and MTS were the same thing?


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## rich815

MTS:










Pond snail:










May I recommend www.google.com?


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## fishscale

I've had a puffer for about a year and a half in a 10x10 nano. It's about 4.3 gallons. I previously had him in a 10 gal with 2 bumblebees. The bumblebees seemed to be bothered, so I put him by himself. I also attempted shrimp with the excess RCS in my tanks. All gone.

I'd stick with just the puffer. The only thing that lasts in that tank is snails, and only until he eats them. Then again, that's what I got him for


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## VincentK

Thanks rich, and when i googled it, many people referred to them as if they were the same thing, saying they had a MTS infestation from taking rocks and things from rivers/ponds, and I'm pretty sure either snail would be fine for them to eat as they don't actually eat the shell


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## VincentK

oh yeah, I just discovered that my plants I got came with planarian worms D: oh noooo! haha I know they're harmless but just the thought of a flatworm in my fish tank makes me shudder


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## VincentK

oh yeah, would dwarf puffers do OK with flourish fertilizer in the water?


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## stelci

Vincent, I feel bad for you and all these ridiculous answers. Look guys, we are talking about Pea Puffers here. They are freshwater fish, they don't crunch snails, they slurp them. Pond or Trumpet, they slurp them. Blood worms aren't messy if you do correct water changes. The puffer wont eat your shrimp if you keep the puffer feed well and keep the water super clean. Having a lot of snails keeps the puffers busy and trumpet snails are awesome cause they breed like crazy and keep your substrate clean. If you want some fun just stir up your sand and unearth some snails. They will eventually be everywhere. Also, the lfs will usually GIVE you free pond snails if you ask. They are generally considered pest snails. 2 kinds of snails and live blood worms is all I feed my Pea Puffers and they are happy babies. 10 months strong. I actually kept 10 amano shrimp successfully for 9 months with them but had a water quality scare and lost them at my own hand. (Only the shrimp) having ghost shrimp will be an excellent addition if not for food for the entertainment aspect. Shrimp are neat to watch. One can't predict a fish's temperament, but if kept happy the puffer shouldn't be aggressive. Flourish is fine with a puffer, you can use it nearly every other day. Any question just ask.


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## VincentK

Thanks! What I ended up doing was getting a dwarf puffer and some ghost shrimp, I put half a mL of Flourish twice a week, doing pretty good so far, though I haven't seen any evidence of the snails being devoured.


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## leemacnyc

Stelci

Not sure if you're dwarf puffers have reached adulthood yet or not, but speaking from experience (4 years of keeping/breeding them exclusively) once they have reached adulthood they are extremely aggressive! 

Keeping them "happy" has no bearing whatsoever on their disposition...I love these devils, but couldn't keep ANYTHING with them...Also, if the snail is small enough they will indeed crunch the shell


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## stelci

Thanks for the heads up. How long does it take to get to full maturity? I think I might have one mated pair or a pair that are interested in one another. This has made one of the males a bit pushy with the other puffers but not the tetras. Is this common? Also, do you think I am eventually going to have to thin out the puffers? We have had them since June of 09. We have 5 puffers (2 female) and 8 cardinal tetras.


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## leemacnyc

Sexual maturity is reached at about 6-8 months...you'll see the males belly stripe...i think 26g is big enough for more than 1 male, but only time will tell...at 1 time i had 3 males in a 10g and it was not good...they eventually staked out their territories, but there was extremely aggressive fighting on a daily basis


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## outofstock

You can keep pea puffers with shrimp. I moved two for a few days into a 2.5 gallon shrimp tank due to a cracked tank. Lots of snails and 13 or so cherry reds and they didnt bother them at all. 

Granted my two pea puffers were young at the time. Ended up being moved into a tank with a red eye (irrubesco) puffer. That didnt end well.... I thought that with a heavy planted tank they would be fine but ended up dieing a month or two later. 

My red eye was a mean SOB though....would kill things just to kill them. Ghost shrimp? He would take them apart secretly. Youd see them missing antenna limbs then eventually they would disappear. He could never catch cherries for some reason. 

Im planning on going nano tank with shrimp and a single pea puffer. Leaning toward a JBJ 3 gal then doing a matching nano reef. It was betta or puffer...i think im 90% sure with the puff


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## stelci

*Here is my tank*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taG16pXDQEs


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