# So Maybe I Have A (20L) Shrimp Problem…



## diwu13

Jesus why SO MANY sponge filters?! Talk about over filtering haha. Why not just two in the corners may I ask?

The way your fixture is set you'll have tons of light near the top of your tank. But that's not a huge issue since all your floaters are there to block out the light.


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## HolyAngel

lol second the amount of sponge filters! but i can't say anything.. i have 2 of those sponge filter connected to 2 hob's PLUS a sunsun 302 on my 20Long lol. I like it!

Do you you already have cherries? if so I would definitely go with the yellows, they look great. otherwise if you want to stick to cherries i'd get pfr's for sure sure.. or red rilis! 

You shouldn't need to raise the light at all, I highly doubt it will spread out the light any more due to the way those led's are, but it might..


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## somewhatshocked

Went with four filters because of all the grazing area for shrimp. And for flow. Even with that many, it's still just barely where I want it. Usually use two of them on 5.5gal tanks.

Concern about the fixture isn't so much light spread but having too much lighting for negligible planting. Am hoping that condensation on the glass top - along with floaters - the levels will be cut down significantly. Have one of these fixtures on a tank that's shorter and it is crazy-high light. Way brighter in person than I ever thought possible for such a cheap light. ADA has one on a short tank and has to keep the fixture raised up a bunch, too.

Already have about 150ish cherries at home and thousands at work. Could move some of them to the tank to start a new colony. Or could order something else. If I go with Yellows, will probably only start out with 10-15 because they're spendy. Gonna do PFRs in this Ebi I'm about to flood.

Thanks for all of the feedback. 

Still struggling with how weird it is not to be thinking about an EI dosing schedule for a new tank.


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## HolyAngel

eh, i don't think its too much light at all. i bought one of the single brights not too long ago but returned it due to a single 17w t8 being near twice as bright as the single bright.. a double bright should be just right, and where you have it the light shouldn't really hit the glass to cause any algea or anything on there. and we both know the shrimp will nomnom any algea that does show up in the tank  with floaters, you should be golden.


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## demonr6

wth is powering that bank of sponge filters? i see you have a missile in the center of the tank as well.


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## somewhatshocked

+1 on shrimp nomming all the algae! I love Amanos around from tank to tank just to watch them go to town on whatever nuisance algae is developing.

Pump = Fusion Quiet Power 700 with dual outlets and flow control. Snatched it up for $1 on Black Friday and it is admittedly the reason for this tank. 

Heh on the missile. Have been moving thermometers around the tank to see how that 100 watt heater performs in different locations. 

Not sure why you folks didn't talk me into having a shrimp farm at home prior to now. At my office, I have them just for stocking display tanks. Who knew it'd be so much nerdy fun at home?


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## somewhatshocked

P.S. Did I mention that I have less than $100 in this rig? Including the tank and LED fixture. Everything was new.

Should really be blaming it on this site. TPT was down that entire day so I spent way too much time trolling for deals.


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## Nubster

somewhatshocked said:


> The goods:
> 
> 
> 
> 20 gallon long
> All kinds of Fluval Shrimp Stratum (approximately 7,000 pounds of it)
> Random "Pagoda" stone, which works well in my public water
> 4 giganto double sponge filters powered by a pump that's strong enough to scare me
> Hydor heater
> Marineland Double Bright LED Fixture
> Random mosses (they're littered with decaying floaters right now - didn't have good lighting til today)
> Frogbit, Salvinia, Duckweed, maybe some Anubias and chain sword when I get around do it, definitely more moss


That's a lot of substrate to pack into a 20g fish tank.


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## somewhatshocked

It's a very accurate and scientific estimate, as you can see.



Nubster said:


> That's a lot of substrate to pack into a 20g fish tank.


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## Nubster

haha....just wondering though, how do you like that substrate? I want to do a tiger shrimp tank soon and figure I'll have to do something other than normal sand for them so I was looking at this as a semi-affordable option.

And how much did you really use in the tank? Just wondering if there was anyway one 8 pound bag would be enough or am I looking at 2 or 3?


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## somewhatshocked

Really enjoy Fluval Stratum. Been using it in these three tanks for quite a while with great results. Zero breakdown, no clouding, holds a slope pretty well, looks decent, light enough to allow delicate plants to spread quickly.

Also seems to buffer my pH down about a full point/degree/whatever from the 7s to the 6s. If it were fortified with nutrients, it'd be my all-time favorite.


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## Redflame

Looks good, I like it. That does seem like a crazy amount of filters but that will be awesome feed ground for shrimplets.


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## somewhatshocked

Just realized an unintended plus to having eight sponges in the tank: Always have a ready supply of tank juice to jump start new filters.


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## shrimpnmoss

Less than $100? Wow...you deal master!...I'm looking for a double bright led for a 20g long too...envy....


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## somewhatshocked

Black Friday was the real deal master. I just had tons of idle time because the site was down.

Pet Mountain always has good deals on the Double Bright. Ken's Fish, too. Usually around $70ish for the size I've got. Well worth it. 

As funds become available, I think I'm going to try to replace most of my lower and medium-light tanks with these fixtures. Though... considering two of them for another 20L that's higher light.


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## shrimpnmoss

Is that the 24-36 inch size of the LED? I see that it doesn't cover all the way across, maybe I'll get the next size up.


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## WeedCali

I have a SUNSUN 302 on my 36bowfront and I think it could be used on a 20L perfectly.


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## somewhatshocked

Yep. The next step up is really too large for the tank and hangs over each side by at least three inches. This size is just under 2 inches too short for the tank length on either side. Perfect for the 20L, I think.

If you want more lighting and have the budget, two of the fixtures would be nice.



shrimpnmoss said:


> Is that the 24-36 inch size of the LED? I see that it doesn't cover all the way across, maybe I'll get the next size up.


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## somewhatshocked

Added two pots of C. parva I "rescued" from the LFS that was killing it:










Maybe won't look half bad once it grows in… in a few months. Heh.

Got my hands on a few more clumps of moss I'm going to add this weekend to cover up those filters.

Liking my new shrimp behemoth more and more each day. And that LED is hands-down my most favorite. Next to no power consumption, cool to the touch, yadda yadda.


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## xenxes

How many tanks does this make? Thanks for the Petmountain light tip, $74.79 shipped for double bright 24"-36", cheaper than Amazon!


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## somewhatshocked

8 tanks at home totaling about 80 gallons. 2,220ish gallons at my office in dozens of tanks.

Have an Ebi that's growing in and a 12gal long Mr. Aqua to be set up soon. Once those two are established, probably going to cut things down to just 3-4 tanks.


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## vvDO

somewhatshocked said:


> probably going to cut things down to just 3-4 tanks.


Good luck with that.

Nice setup, can't wait to set up my 20L shrimp problem. :smile:


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## somewhatshocked

So far it hasn't been too tough to consolidate. Shutting down a few tiny tanks (2.5gal) and a 5.5gal over the next couple months. Really nice to cut back!


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## somewhatshocked

Woah, it's been a minute since I've made an update.

Moss has exploded, I added some more cholla and… about 75-100 cherries.

Took a couple bad cell phone pics during feeding time tonight:




























You can see how red many of them are getting. Has taken me a year to breed that out of some random shrimp I "rescued" from a clueless neighbor. Lots of saddles so I'm hoping for lots of berries soon.

Thanks for checking my shrimp rig out.


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## 150EH

How long does it take the AS to cycle past the ammonia spike, I want to replace my substrate with AS but don't have a second home for my fish.


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## somewhatshocked

Not using Aquasoil in this tank - Fluval Shrimp Stratum.

But the AS cycle is really tank-specific. Usually takes me about 3-4 weeks to get through the setup stage. Depends on your plant load, established filtration and such.


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## somewhatshocked

Feeding frenzy!


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## somewhatshocked

Just took a look at my tank this morning to discover there are NINETEEN berried females. 

So... looks like there are going to be some really sweet RAOKs soon.


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## somewhatshocked

Figure it's time to update with some more photos.

Some of the 19 berried shrimp:




























Three shrimp in this little moss cave are berried:










Seems Süßwassertang is a snail egg magnet:










One of my holding tanks has become overrun with pond & bladder snail babies:










Guess it's time for a RAOK.

Sneak peak at some new food I've been making and testing for more than a year:










Thanks for reading along.

Jake


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## somewhatshocked

A couple folks have messaged me to ask... and, yes, those are worms on the substrate. Ha.

I've been really overfeeding this tank the past few weeks to bump up my Ramshorn and pond snail population so I have enough to stock a pond at my office next month.


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## somewhatshocked

Looks like I'm going to have another 20L joining this tank. 

Selling one of my office buildings so I have to shut down a bunch of tanks. I'll have about 20-30 CRS that I've "rescued" from people over the years so I figure I should bring them home. Can set them up in a spare 20L I've got with Akadama and moss. Have three spare double sponge filters (like the ones on this tank) and a spare Hydro sponge that I could stick in the tank. Don't really want to drop $100 on a new Eheim so surely a few sponges will do the trick.

I've never been a fan of CRS in my home tanks but have recently developed an affinity for CBS. Maybe the CRS will grow on me and I can enjoy my breeding populations at the office more.

This is the shelf system I am using. Current 20L is on the bottom shelf. Surely it'll hold another 20L about 4/5ths filled? Entire unit is rated to hold 1750lbs. A filled tank will be just under 200lbs. It's in my bedroom so I don't want an ugly wood & steel unit. I've got ten of the smaller units holding Ebis and 5.5gal tanks in my office so I know they're tough. Just unnecessary worrying.

What a fun weekend.


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## somewhatshocked

Think I'm gonna use some of this Narrow Leaf Java Fern I just bought to hide the sponge filters a bit.


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## somewhatshocked

Shutting down some 2.5gal tanks and did this last night...

Ignore the dirty glass:










Had some leftover Akadama from filling a new 20L. Have a few Red Sea Nano HOBs that are currently running on other tanks (have them doubled up so I can remove one without a problem) that I can use.

Maybe I should get it going and keep snails and a few mutt RCS culls in it. That way it's ready for any undesirable crystals mine throw at me? It's so small that I don't want more than 5-10 shrimp in it tops. 

What the heck should I use this for? Should I use it? Guess we'll find out.

Now to go on the hunt for some nice driftwood or manzanita for the new 20L.


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## somewhatshocked

Update - here's the new 20L prior to scaping & flooding:










Off to the LFS to locate some suitable wood and a glass canopy.

Have a Coralife T5NO fixture coming this week along with another powerful air pump. Have gobs of moss and java fern. 8-10 bunches of Anubias nana already tied to black lava rock. 

Should make for a simple CRS tank, I hope.


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## somewhatshocked

Got a little more spendy with wood than I would have liked:




























As you can see, I have a few options. 

Got a few pieces of slate to zip tie the wood to. Guess I know what I'll be doing in my free time tomorrow. I've got a date with a Dremel.


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## Bahugo

I like how it looks in the third pic the most on the ledge. 

What do you do that you have 2200~ gallons in your office? I need too get into that lol.


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## somewhatshocked

I just have a lot of space and suffer from a serious case of multiple tank syndrome.


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## somewhatshocked

Maybe an arrangement something like this with a bit of adjustment once I get these beasts attached to slate?










Thinking all of the wood will be covered in moss. Gonna be fun tying all of that down.

Still working on it.

Likely to flood it tomorrow.


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## somewhatshocked

This is what I settled on for wood:










All the white spots from super glue gel will eventually be covered up, thankfully. 

Swapped four unused sponges from this tank with four used sponges in my RCS tank, added Nutrafin Cycle, 2.25ml ammonia, used about half RO/DI water and half tap (because I didn't have enough of either ready to put in the tank - will only use RO/DO once cycled) and turned on the light fixture.

Added 8 Anubias nana tied to black lava rock. Not sure how I feel about them just yet because they're not as cool as nana 'petite'… maybe stash them behind pieces of wood a bit and put moss-covered lava rock in front? 

Have at least a baseball amount or more of moss left. Gonna tie a bunch to several chunks of lava rock and stash them in front of the sponge filters once I recover from the millions of hours it took to glue moss to wood.


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## audioaficionado

I'm subscribing as I'm going to be starting a 20L shrimp/snail tank also.


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## somewhatshocked

You mean you're not going to set up TWO 20Ls?!

Blasphemy!


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## Zefrik

Did it say you had 7,000 pounds of stratum?


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## somewhatshocked

Yeah. I was being a bit facetious.

Facetious to the tune of, oh, 6,980 pounds or so.



Zefrik said:


> Did it say you had 7,000 pounds of stratum?


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## somewhatshocked

P.S. to all the folks who were concerned (or laughing) about my usage of four double sponge filters in my 20Ls... I have never, ever seen water so crystal clear. Not even in a 20L running two Eheim 2213s with Purigen and filter floss in pre-filters.

I am _definitely_ doing this more often with these cheap Chinese sponges.

The cloudiness in the pic with Akadama? Cleared up in under a minute. 

Now I have no idea why I was nervous about keeping more sensitive shrimp without a canister.


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## jkan0228

Bro. Where'd you get those sponge filters? Evil bay? Aquabid? Amazon? Etc?


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## somewhatshocked

You can find them on all the auction sites and from a few sites sponsors.

I bought a bunch from a supplier in Hong Kong a few years ago and use them all the time.


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## audioaficionado

somewhatshocked said:


> You mean you're not going to set up TWO 20Ls?!
> 
> Blasphemy!


The other tank was going to be ~125gal or so :biggrin:


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## somewhatshocked

This morning I realized the temperature in BOTH of these 20Ls was 66 degrees Fahrenheit. So I plugged the heater in the RCS tank back in. Also added a 100w Hydor to the new Akadama tank and set it at 72. 

Can you imagine trying to cycle a tank that repeatedly dropped that far below 70? Thank goodness I paid attention.

It's been 80 degrees here all week so I've had the A/C running. Guess I really will need heaters in my Crystal tanks upstairs.

Strangely, my open-top 12gal long remains at a solid 73-74 and it's just as close to air vents.


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## somewhatshocked

Welp... the new tank is already through the nitrogen cycle. Guess those four seeded sponges did the trick. Gonna keep this going with pure ammonia until mid-April before adding livestock.

This is a record for me. 24 hours.


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## vvDO

Unleashing the power of sponge filters. Now if they only looked nicer.


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## somewhatshocked

They're tough to see on a black background with lots of greenery covering them.


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## somewhatshocked

On 03/17 the new Akadama tank read:
153 TDS
3 KH
5GH

Yesterday, GH & KH were the same, TDS 146

Today:
156 TDS
1 KH
4GH

Interesting stuff.

Can't wait to put this to use in a few weeks.


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## somewhatshocked

Figure it's time for an updated shot of the new tank:










Frogbit and Duckweed kind of exploded of the course of five days. Slowly adding moss as I'm home and find the time. Hope to add some fissidens and willow this weekend. 

A few have asked how I'm keeping those tanks, so here's a blurry cell phone shot:










This whole waiting a month to add critters thing always makes me anxious. At least I'll have something to look forward to after the tax man comes? Heh.


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## somewhatshocked

Received three new "pink" Pomacea diffusa from Rachel today.

Some shrimp hitching rides:










Stuck them in the Cherry tank for the time being. Will eventually move them along to a larger tank that already has several.


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## audioaficionado

How do these compare to Nerites?


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## somewhatshocked

They breed like rabbits, get huge, eat more, poop more, move like lightning.

So, naturally, I love them!


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## audioaficionado

As long as the "pink" Pomacea diffusa don't eat healthy leaves and spam the tank up with thousands of white eggs I'm game. I'm letting my hitch hiking brown rams horns multiply and some really tiny pearl colored pond snails. I'd like to get some red and pink rams horns too.

My zebra and red spot nerites were beautiful, but died too easy and really spammed up my driftwood.

I haven't bought anything from Rachel yet, but I'm looking forward to be spending lots of money on her stock once spring temps finally arrive in the West and I have some spare holding tanks set up.


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## somewhatshocked

They don't leave nuisance white eggs. But they certainly lay huge clutches above the waterline that hatch out about 11,000,000 babies.

I got these off Rachel to beef up my breeding stock so I'm sure I'll have new babies quite soon.

They typically don't eat any sort of living plant - just decaying matter and detritus. Also a fair amount of algae and leftover food.


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## audioaficionado

How large do they get?


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## somewhatshocked

Here's a great resource for Pomacea diffusa information.

But typically up to 3 inches.


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## audioaficionado

Apple snails... I think I'll get a nice yellow one from my LFS to see how it fares in my tank. Then later some pink ones from Rachael.


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## somewhatshocked

You may end up with a snail that is fertilized and then won't need to get any others.

If you end up with a huge clutch of eggs, I recommend using Rachel's method for incubation.

Up until a few months ago, I'd been leaving the clutches in my tanks to hatch on their own. Only 20-30% would make it. With her method? It's scary how many survive. I've been giving them away to local pet shops and friends lately.


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## somewhatshocked

Added some more mixed moss (Peacock, Christmas, Rose, Taiwan, Java) to the back and corners of the tank.

Also temporarily housing some stainless steel mesh covered with moss and some slate chunks covered in Fissidens:










Gonna add about a metric ton of Willow Moss tomorrow.

Probably gonna ditch the Anubias nana and go for 'Petite'...


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## audioaficionado

Keep both Anubius for size variation. The nana will become your large leaf plant.

An Anubias barteri 'Coffeefolia' could become your giant centerpiece plant LOL.


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## somewhatshocked

If I keep these nana in the tank, I'm going to move them behind the wood. They're just not small enough to make a great transition from substrate to wood. 

My primary focus will be on shrimp so I want to keep it as simple as possible.


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## somewhatshocked

Finally figured out what to do with that extra tank:










Two chunks of spare wood, some slate, Fissidens and super glue gel. 

Will add a bunch of moss to the back so there's plenty of room for shrimp to hang out.


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## somewhatshocked

Cherry tank is still going strong. Tons of new saddles on the younger shrimp:










New 20L is looking better and better:










Added a bunch of Ramshorns to the 2.5gal to keep the bacteria alive for a month or two (along with some mosses in the back):










By adding the snails, I got the glass dirty… naturally, since I cleaned it earlier.


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## alfalfa

What kind of filter are you using on the 2.5 gallon? Mine was supposed to be a temporary hospital tank that recently turned into a snail tank, but I have no filtration yet. I should probably pick up a hood, too.


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## somewhatshocked

Filter is the standard el cheap Red Sea Nano filter. Less than $10, quiet, can use your own media, adjustable flow, can cover the intake with pantyhose or a Fluval Edge sponge.

Great little filter if you don't need anything super-powerful.


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## alfalfa

somewhatshocked said:


> Filter is the standard el cheap Red Sea Nano filter. Less than $10, quiet, can use your own media, adjustable flow, can cover the intake with pantyhose or a Fluval Edge sponge.
> 
> Great little filter if you don't need anything super-powerful.


That's the one I've been looking for but it seems to be discontinued, or at least unavailable everywhere. I was hoping to get something else that is similar, like an Azoo Mignon (new Palm?). But I'm still researching, hoping to uncover the secrets to finding a red sea nano filter.


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## somewhatshocked

Foster & Smith have the Azoo Palm 
Aquarium Guys & That Pet Place have the Rapids filter
Pet Mountain has a few small alternatives
Big Al's has a couple small ones
Also found a couple searching Amazon and Google.

Honestly, if I had to do it over again and knew I was keeping these tanks long-term, I'd just get the smallest AquaClear and cut off the intake tube to make it fit. You could cut the intake tube with a Dremel or even a cheap hacksaw blade available from any big box or hardware store. That'd be money better spent and you'd have more options as far as filter media and capacity. Also gives you room to hide a small heater.


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## alfalfa

somewhatshocked said:


> Honestly, if I had to do it over again and knew I was keeping these tanks long-term, I'd just get the smallest AquaClear and cut off the intake tube to make it fit.


Thanks for your help. This is probably what I'll end up doing. I am considering an AquaClear 20 for another tank so I'll just buy two. I was a little worried about it being too much for for a 2.5, but I could probably reduce the flow enough. Even if it doesn't work out, I can keep it as a spare.


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## somewhatshocked

You can easily reduce flow by adding thick sponge over the cascade. Could easily add a couple layers of cheap plastic mesh with some sponge.


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## gordonrichards

I wanna see what you do with all the willow moss I sent you :^)
Please send me a photo!


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## somewhatshocked

There's so much I'm not sure what to do with it all. 

Gonna tie big bunches of it to rock and attach some to a Mattenfilter. That'll still leave me with plenty to attach to random wood and hide behind rock in other tanks.


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## somewhatshocked

First - ignore the dirty glass. Thought I'd update these three tanks.

The cherry tank is going swell. Dozens of berried shrimp. All those white specks? They're apple snails.










The Akadama tank:










I think I'm bringing home about 10-20 CRS for this tank and will order additional shrimp from a couple other sellers to beef up the gene pool.

And my tiny little moss tank is growing in like woah:










All those Ramshorns have laid eggs so I'll be moving a bunch to my balcony container pond in a few weeks. It's had about a dozen Apple Snails and a few female Endlers in it all winter (it's heated) so these will be a nice addition.


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## somewhatshocked

Not sure why people are harping so hardcore on Fluval Shrimp Stratum lately. I'm beginning to believe it's just groupthink/people freaking out over what they've heard from someone else who heard something. Complete silliness.

This is my 9th or 10th time using it and I have at least 100 juvie Cherries. In the CRS tank I've got at work, I counted easily 40 juvies. People must be doing something crazy with this substrate to have had less than solid experiences.

Just wanted to throw that out there for folks who have been reading negative reviews. Take them with a grain of salt. 

As for the Akadama tank... it's been flooded for two weeks. I'm going to run it for at least another two weeks before adding snails. Then I'll bring home some CRS and maybe order some to beef up my blood lines.


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## audioaficionado

I just got some FloraMax black for my 20L. Hope it's OK for shrimp.


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## jkan0228

FloraMax might be a bit big for shrimp to rummage through like they do with lighter substrates like FSS. 

Question, what size air pump do you have running on those 4 sponge filters?


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## somewhatshocked

audioaficionado: Floramax will be fine for shrimp. It doesn't always hold up as well as I'd like it to but I still use it in a few tanks.

jkan0228: Output is 3.4 L/M, Pressure is 20.46 kPa, has two outlets, rated for up to 60gal. There are tons of them on the market but Fusion are my favorite because of their price point.


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## GMYukonon24s

What is the plant that is floating? I like the roots. Also you have 3 good looking tanks.


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## somewhatshocked

Thanks! Unfortunately, this is just part of one rack. There are ten other tanks running here at home. And... so many in my office that I won't offer a number. Multiple Tank Syndrome is a serious disease.

The floaters are: duckweed, giant duckweed, salvinia, frogbit, some riccia here and there.



GMYukonon24s said:


> What is the plant that is floating? I like the roots. Also you have 3 good looking tanks.


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## GMYukonon24s

Ok thanks. Ya MTS is a serious disease lol.


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## audioaficionado

somewhatshocked said:


> audioaficionado: Floramax will be fine for shrimp. It doesn't always hold up as well as I'd like it to but I still use it in a few tanks.


What doesn't hold up?


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## somewhatshocked

I guess "hold up" wasn't a great choice of words.

I meant that it just gets grungy-looking after four or five months - as does Eco-Complete. It holds its shape fine. The rough texture of the two products collect more detritus, I think.


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## somewhatshocked

Just checked on the Cherry tank to find about a dozen juvies hitching a ride on an Apple Snail. And about 20 baby Apple Snails hitching a ride, as well. It's great when a tank finally gets to that point.


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## jkan0228

So if you could upgrade to a pump rated for 75 or 100G? Would you?


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## somewhatshocked

Nope. The pump I'm using on each tank is overkill. I probably could just used one for both tanks combined.



jkan0228 said:


> So if you could upgrade to a pump rated for 75 or 100G? Would you?


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## jkan0228

Thanks. 

You should take a video to show this "overkill"


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## somewhatshocked

It's something you can see in all the photos. There's so much airflow that the bubble action in the lift tubes looks white, all the floaters are pushed to the fronts of the tanks.


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## somewhatshocked

Here's the deal, folks:



















Don't let anyone tell you that you can't raise Cherry Shrimp in low pH water or with Fluval Shrimp Stratum. I'm doing both.

Easily a hundred juvies in the tank. My second batch.


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## somewhatshocked

Thought the "cycle" on the new 20L was nearly complete. But Nitrites are sticking at 5PPMish. Here's hoping that stops sometime soon.

Patience is a virtue, I guess.

At least the tank will look nice when the critters move in.


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## somewhatshocked

Cherry tank is looking pretty okay:










Time for a moss trim, though. I'll use the trimmings in this new tank (yes, another shrimp tank). 

The Crystal tank is coming along nicely:










Nitrites are finally at zero so the "cycle" is complete. Will continue to add ammonia every day this week and maybe bring home some CRS on the weekend. May order some CRS from a forum seller to blend bloodlines, too.


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## somewhatshocked

Akadama tank is totally ready for shrimp. Did a 100% water change with RO/DI and parameters are holding steady.

Planning on bringing home 10-15 S-SSS mixed CRS and ordering 10 or so SS-SS+ CRS from forum members. Because mine have been breeding on their own for four years. MUST add new blood or they're all going to turn into some sort of mutant beasts.

Yay? I think this is a yay moment.


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## somewhatshocked

Just ordered ten SS-SS+ CRS to arrive on Friday. Can't wait to introduce them slowly to my own CRS colony.

Definitely a yay moment.


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## somewhatshocked

Added 11 SS-SS+ CRS (at least a few are way higher grade than that) from a forum seller.

Just now starting to color up:




























Maybe gonna add some of my own next week.


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## audioaficionado

Does Akadama come in a darker shade? Your Akadama has a nice texture and looks great, but unless I went with darker shrimp, I'd like a darker substrate to contrast their bright colors.

What grain size did you go with?


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## somewhatshocked

Small grain. That's pretty much the only color it comes in. 

Honestly, I only used it because I had a bunch left over from actual bonsai use. So I bought an extra bag and used what I had remaining to do this tank. I wouldn't purposefully buy it for shrimp use unless there were no other options. 

Nothing beats ADA Aquasoil or the other shrimp-specific soils.


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## somewhatshocked

CRS have colored up to look quite nice:



















The CRS/Akadama tank as it looks now:










Some floaters and other plants that have started growing at the surface:










There are now 17 CRS in the tank but I may add a few more. Only time will tell.


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## dasob85

I love the moss on the driftwood! congrats on the beautiful CRS


----------



## somewhatshocked

My other half just informed me via text message that one of the adult CRS I took home to add to the tank of new shrimp is berried. 

Here's hoping!


----------



## somewhatshocked

As you can see, these CRS from Shawn are awesome:










Blurry image but high-quality shrimp.

Here's the tank today:










Moss is growing like crazy:










Gonna add a few more shrimp this week or next.

Figure it's also time for an RCS tank update.

No one believes me, but I swear some of the larger Neos attach smaller pond and bladder snails while they're alive. I'm almost afraid to say so again for fear of people freaking out on me. I'm going to have to figure out what's up and try to get video of whatever the heck is going on.










I'm no shrimp newbie and I know they are detrivores but…

FINALLY! Some algae:










Sadly, the shrimp are eating it so it won't last long.

My C. parva clumps have grown quite a bit the past few months:


----------



## acitydweller

Great work on your tanks.

What kind of moss is that? my java moss fans out and downwards.

Interested in your success with the berried CRS.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Thanks! I need to take new shots today and post them in the thread, I suppose.

It's a mix of mosses in both tanks. Java, Taiwan, Christmas, Peacock, et al.

Currently have several CRS shrimplets hiding in the moss and have two more berried ladies. Going to move those two shrimp to a larger tank for popping off babies sometime this week, though, as I don't want a population explosion.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Couple shots of the CRS tank:



















Moss is in need of a trim, it seems.

CRS have terrific, thick shells:



















And they've all colored up nicely:










The Cherry tank is chugging along well. Some shots of my standard Cherries:




























Finally have a tiny patch of algae growing that the shrimp haven't entirely devoured and I'm quite excited:










Guess I really need to start selling off some Cherries.

Can't wait to see how the CRS babies look when they grow up a bit. Will hopefully be able to photograph them soon.


----------



## 150EH

They look good and I would let the moss go crazy, it's good breeding ground.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Thanks!

Definitely letting all the background moss go crazy. Just want to keep the wood trimmed to a reasonable level so it looks presentable.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Some close-ups of one of my berried CRS ladies:


























Can't wait for more babies!


----------



## somewhatshocked

Here's one of my berried ladies:


















Love these red floaters:










They were swarming something tasty, apparently:










Still have new berried RCS in the other tank on an almost daily basis:










You may not be able to see it in the image above, but I have been trying to attach algae to the rest of the sponges in the tank. Finally having a tiny bit of success. But the dang shrimp keep eating it.

Shrimp are awesome.


----------



## SomeCanuck

I can't get over how beautiful and lush the moss growth is! Are you using any fert supplementation at all in these tanks? I've had my little Ebi running for over a year and started off with a golf-ball portion of java moss. All it's managed to do is creep slowly along the driftwood, but has barely branched off of it at all. Any suggestions or clues as to why?

Love the upside down shramps on the floaters, btw. Bleeding adorable.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Thanks!

Nothing special at all with the moss. Definitely no fertilizers. Just having lots of shrimp to turn things over, healthy moss cultures to begin with, decent lighting and stability. That's all it takes.


----------



## madness

Putting java moss under the outflow of the HoB filters is the only trick in a low tech tank (no ferts, no CO2) that I have found.

I have gotten java from a few sources. The last source I got it from the java moss has just grown like crazy from the very beginning. I think that there is definitely some variation in source/strain in java moss but I don't imagine it is worth trying to figure it all out since java moss is so common and cheap.


----------



## SomeCanuck

Except in Quebec, apparently. All my local LFS (within 45 minutes drive) have no mosses to speak of and can't order any in. And their plant choice is pretty abysmal too. Half of them aren't labeled and can't be identified by their own staff which makes it damn difficult for a newbie like me. And I've been having so much difficulty finding decent places to buy plants from online too in Canada. Reeeeeally jealous of the SnS community you guys have down south of the border. hehe


----------



## jkan0228

What's that red floater? Red root floater? Looks hella nice.


----------



## somewhatshocked

These tanks are as low-tech as you can get and all of my mosses - Java included - are exploding. I've honestly never kept moss in a high-tech environment because it doesn't always mesh well with my other plants.

Just as long as the water's fairly clean, under 80 degrees (from experience), and well picked through? It'll usually grow. 

jkan: It's Giant Duckweed.


----------



## madness

SomeCanuck said:


> Except in Quebec, apparently. All my local LFS (within 45 minutes drive) have no mosses to speak of and can't order any in. And their plant choice is pretty abysmal too. Half of them aren't labeled and can't be identified by their own staff which makes it damn difficult for a newbie like me. And I've been having so much difficulty finding decent places to buy plants from online too in Canada. Reeeeeally jealous of the SnS community you guys have down south of the border. hehe


Here where I am I can almost never find even java moss in LFS. 

The one time I did find some I basically bought the entire batch (enough to fill most of a 5 bucket practically).


----------



## somewhatshocked

Ugh, the CRS tank has turned into a moss jungle!


















Definitely need to trim this weekend.

From the Cherry tank:


























Babies tearing up some spinach:










This guy always has hitchhikers:










Hope to unload at least half my cherries within the next couple weeks.


----------



## chad320

These tanks look great Jake! I really love the moss. Trimming will make it come in thicker.
I usuall only trim one time then I retie the sticks to keep it coming in nice and full. And congrats on the berried CRS!


----------



## somewhatshocked

Thanks!

I've actually trimmed the CRS tank a few times but the mixed mosses I use grow out-of-control in all environments, it seems. I think I'm going to do a really heavy trim of the wood this weekend and trim the carpet of moss that covers 3/4 of the tank sometime next week. There's just so much of it.

Currently can find 19 shrimplets so I can't wait til this momma pops off all those babies to have more.


----------



## somewhatshocked

I keep getting private messages asking why there are always so many thermometers in my shrimp tanks. Guess I should explain publicly.

Quite simply, it's because my condo goes through temperature extremes and I have to keep a good eye on my more sensitive shrimp. I keep a thermometer near the substrate, one near the top of the tank and always have a digital meter hidden in the tank. Just a habit of mine after years of tanking. 

I keep things COLD in this joint year round and I've learned my lesson. Always have a few cheap-o thermometers in each of my tanks and can keep an easy eye on things. 

Plus... all it takes is one visitor or significant other messing with the thermostats in here to wreak havoc on thousands upon thousands of dollars worth of plants and crustaceans. Can't be having that.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Have been selling off some shrimp to make room. So. Maybe it's time to address a few things I continue to receive questions about. Especially from new shrimp keepers.

Akadama isn't 'the magic answer to everything. It's merely what I had on-hand at the time I set the CRS tank up. It's one of many substrates. It is absolutely crazy to pay $10 per pound for the stuff. There are 20 or 30 great substrates you can use that are widely discussed here on TPT.

Actually had to remove the link to email me from TPT because people were sending so many questions about Akadama. 

An under gravel filter is not absolutely necessary for shrimp keeping. That's just one filtration method. Yes, tons of people - myself included - use them. And we also use sponges with great results. You do not have to spend $200-$300 setting up a shrimp tank.

If you're new to shrimp keeping, don't just read a handful of threads here on TPT and think you're ready to get your hands on the most expensive, most sensitive shrimp you can afford. Please actually read a few hundred threads and educate yourself before you jump through that hoop. Or if you have questions you can't find answers for, please ask a shrimper here on TPT or post a thread asking the questions. I promise you'll thank yourself for having patience and so will the shrimp. 

Was almost alarmed at the number of people trying to buy shrimp who either didn't have a tank that was ready for them or who weren't prepared to receive them. 

Thank goodness it's the weekend!


----------



## Geniusdudekiran

Wow, the shrimp look fantastic. They're from Shawn's stock?


----------



## somewhatshocked

Yep - half are Shawn's and half are mine. They're all about the same, though. 

Have a ton of babies hidden in the moss but can't spy on them enough to get solid pics. Here's hoping.


----------



## green_valley

somewhatshocked said:


> Have been selling off some shrimp to make room. So. Maybe it's time to address a few things I continue to receive questions about. Especially from new shrimp keepers.
> 
> Akadama isn't 'the magic answer to everything. It's merely what I had on-hand at the time I set the CRS tank up. It's one of many substrates. It is absolutely crazy to pay $10 per pound for the stuff. There are 20 or 30 great substrates you can use that are widely discussed here on TPT.
> 
> Actually had to remove the link to email me from TPT because people were sending so many questions about Akadama.
> 
> An under gravel filter is not absolutely necessary for shrimp keeping. That's just one filtration method. Yes, tons of people - myself included - use them. And we also use sponges with great results. You do not have to spend $200-$300 setting up a shrimp tank.
> 
> If you're new to shrimp keeping, don't just read a handful of threads here on TPT and think you're ready to get your hands on the most expensive, most sensitive shrimp you can afford. Please actually read a few hundred threads and educate yourself before you jump through that hoop. Or if you have questions you can't find answers for, please ask a shrimper here on TPT or post a thread asking the questions. I promise you'll thank yourself for having patience and so will the shrimp.
> 
> Was almost alarmed at the number of people trying to buy shrimp who either didn't have a tank that was ready for them or who weren't prepared to receive them.
> 
> Thank goodness it's the weekend!


Good post.:thumbsup:


----------



## somewhatshocked

Figure it's time to share some photos of the latest batch of babies. They're cell phone shots and such, so, you know, they're not great.


















As you can tell? They're already super-white. I attribute this to good breeding from Shawn and to my nerdy shrimp foods.

There are currently about 50ish babies in the tank. Can't wait to watch them all grow up.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Time for another update!

Looks like my Cherry tank is starting to throw Rili:


















Some CRS babies that are older than the others I've shared:


















Have yet another berried lady:










And a quick note about the double sponge filters I use on these two tanks, as I strangely have started receiving a bunch of questions about them: They're cheaper than $3 on eBay - shipped - from Michigan, I think. So you don't have to wait on them to arrive from Hong Kong. Can typically get four of them for $10 shipped.


----------



## Bananariot

Lol I agree with the akadama post.....there's a bunch of alternatives like a zoo plant grower bed. I think one of the high points of akadama was the affordability as well as the no ammonia spike. With ppl charging through the roof for it (ppl on tpt included) the product just isn't worth it anymore. 

Those are fantastic shrimp you have there. Of course the survivability would be high with ur superfoods  I have to sift through the pages to see when it became a crs tank lol


----------



## somewhatshocked

Thanks! It's actually two separate tanks. One for RCS, one for CRS. 

For me, survivability all boils down to having a healthy and established tank. My foods do play a role in coloration and the overall life of shrimp, I believe. But babies do best when there's a ton of surface area to graze on with lots and lots of hidey holes. 



Bananariot said:


> Those are fantastic shrimp you have there. Of course the survivability would be high with ur superfoods  I have to sift through the pages to see when it became a crs tank lol


----------



## Unikorn

Subscribed. Lots of great advise and information on this thread  I was thinking of starting a 5 gallon shrimp tank. So maybe this was the push I needed


----------



## somewhatshocked

*CRS Tank*
Time to update basic parameters since so many people are asking (doing this for all the shrimp tanks I have journals for on TPT):


Temperature: 72 (if I don't keep the lid open, it gets up to 75 in this crazy heat wave we're having)

GH: 6

KH: 0-1

pH: 6.4

Nitrate: 0-5

TDS: 165

Akadama isn't much of a buffering substrate in this tank but I still love it. Maybe drops pH a degree. In my 3gal with UP Aqua Shrimp Sand, I have to add crushed coral to keep the pH as high as 5.8-5.9. 


*RCS Tank *
Time to update basic parameters since so many people are asking (doing this for all the shrimp tanks I have journals for on TPT):


Temperature: 72

GH: 11

KH: 2-3

pH: 7.2 

Nitrate: 40ish (just dosed some stuff and it's the day before water change)

TDS: 320

Looks like the Fluval Shrimp Stratum is beginning to lose its chutzpah in this tank. Not entirely a bad thing, really, as I'm nearly ready to turn it into a Tiger tank if I can find the time to rehome a bunch of the Cherries and slowly switch to full RO/DI. My tap water is clearly a disaster.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Quick update! Trimmed over a pound (seriously) of moss from the CRS tank.

Here it is mid-trim:










Back is aching, to say the least.

Think I'm going to remove the moss tiles in the center of the tank. So. Much. Moss. SO MUCH.


----------



## 150EH

I would be a nervous wreck trimming in a shrimp tank with fry, do you think any went into the trash?

I did put a moss wall in my nano and used Christmas moss but for the most part it won't get trimmed, I'll just pull the entire wall then use a paper clip to pull the new growth back into the wall, other than that I used the Fissidens mini because it won't need any trimming.


----------



## somewhatshocked

No shimplets were trashed because I didn't put the moss in the trash. I pulled out a literal pound of it, so it's now in a holding tank. 

When trimming a tank like that, you have to be super-careful and pay attention to what you're doing. Nothing reckless and silly. I trimmed small sections at a time and made sure there was nothing on the moss as it was removed.


----------



## somewhatshocked

This is what happens when you don't trim your moss, folks:










Another accidental Rili is about to pop with berries:










These CRS babies traveled the length of the tank to get to the feeding dish:










Guess they didn't see the adult nomming to the far right.


----------



## Geniusdudekiran

What "string" of Shawn's CRS are those? They look look absolutely fantastic!


----------



## somewhatshocked

I guess Second Stringers? SS-SS+, though they're obviously higher quality than a lot of the $$$$$ shrimp sold here on the forum. Most solid I've ever owned.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Somewhat related to these two tanks...

I've had to set up two new 20Ls to temporarily house a ton of plants from larger tanks I've torn down. Decided I couldn't wait on light fixtures to be shipped to me so I bought two 30" T5NO Coralife fixtures at a local fish shop. Both boxes had dust caked on them, so I'm sure they're older models.

I'll be danged if both of them didn't burn bulbs out twice within a week. Emailed Coralife/Central Aquatics and two new replacement fixtures are being shipped out to me tomorrow.

While this doesn't prove that it's an older model fixture problem with those 30" units? It continues to back up my own experiences. The fresher units from web retailers I've purchased never fail. But the LFS units that likely sit on supplier shelves for extended periods here in the region almost always do.

Just wanted to share this experience with those interested in the fixture. Primarily to illustrate that contacting customer service works with 99.99% of retailers in this hobby. And to further illustrate that these fixtures are perfect for the 20L - I always go right to them.

Not posting this as a vendor review but hope people having problems with this fixture will see that they can get them quickly replaced if there's an issue. No need to resort to posting negative reviews if the proper steps are taken.


----------



## xenxes

Geez, that sucks, at least they're sending you replacements.

What would you recommend as a light for the 20L? Looking to replace mine.


----------



## somewhatshocked

I recommend the 30" Coralife T5NO. It's my absolute favorite.


----------



## audioaficionado

AL-30WM: Finnex FugeRay Unibody Ultra Slim LED Fixture - 30" Daylight +Moonlights


----------



## somewhatshocked

Finnex fixtures are okay, I suppose, I'm just not a fan at that price point. 

For $35-$40, you can't beat a T5NO fixture. I notice T5 at that length, regardless of manufacturer, is cheap to operate, can be right on top of the tank and doesn't really do much to alter tank temperature.


----------



## audioaficionado

Are the the lamps/tubes a full 30"?


----------



## somewhatshocked

They're maybe 29-29.5ish inches. Go the full length of the fixture.


----------



## wetbizquit

i have 4 coralife fixtures, one is over 5 years old, and still works awesome, my friend at the fish hub here in utah hooked me up with a ton of 6700k bulbs that were only used for 3 weeks for free!! (got like 5 65 watts) i actually really love their new sleek designs, the small ones i use on low light tanks, i have a 24'' double light fixture got for 35$ and a 48'' double i got for 55$ cant beat that for a nice new light fixture with new bulbs


----------



## somewhatshocked

Just witnessed an adult RCS chow down on a LIVE Bladder Snail. Wow.

I've heard sewingalot mention it occasionally but this is the first time I've seen it occur.


----------



## somewhatshocked

And this evening I spotted about 20 new babies in the CRS tank... along with a female shrimp so berried she can barely walk.

Guess all of Shawn's PRLs are magic and have babies like woah.


----------



## xenxes

somewhatshocked said:


> Finnex fixtures are okay, I suppose, I'm just not a fan at that price point.
> 
> For $35-$40, you can't beat a T5NO fixture. I notice T5 at that length, regardless of manufacturer, is cheap to operate, can be right on top of the tank and doesn't really do much to alter tank temperature.


$35-40!? Where?

Really purdy PRLs


----------



## somewhatshocked

Just about everywhere that sells the fixture. Ken's Fish, That Pet Place, etc.

$41.95 at Ken's

$37.06 at That Pet Place

Have even seen them cheaper on other sites.



xenxes said:


> $35-40!? Where?
> 
> Really purdy PRLs


----------



## xenxes

Meh I fail at bargain shopping, I saw $100 on Google Shopper and $60 on Amazon.

Awesome, thanks!


----------



## somewhatshocked

Check these sites:

PetStore.com
Foster & Smith
Big Al's
Ken's Fish
That Pet Place
PetSmart (usually SUPER-expensive there, though)
Petco
AquaCave
Aquarium Guys
et al


----------



## deleted_user_17

I've just worked my way through this excellent thread. Great to see so many photos and there's lots of good advice too. I'm waiting on one of these sponge filters to turn up, it's cool that they both add filtration, and are a source of food too. Oh, and that they are super cheap. 

Subscribing


----------



## somewhatshocked

Yep - definitely cheap. $10 for 4 shipped from eBay. That's about $1 per filter.

Thanks for checking it all out.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Seems there are new PRL CRS babies every day!

Here are some cell phone shots of some juvies and various younger shrimplets:










































Guess I'm doing something right with my shrimplet food. Because I've never had this many offspring in a short period of time in such a young tank. Some of the SS+ have produced SSS+ offspring. Gonna start culling in a week or two and guess I'll move the culls to my Golden/Snow White tank to see what happens. Also toying with moving a higher grade CRS to my SSS+ CBS tank to see what kind of offspring I can get.

Hundreds of babies in the RCS tank, as well, but I'm pretty sure those suckers could breed in rubbing alcohol.


----------



## larcat

Heh, this is so true.

I've kept cheap shrimp for a long time now, but the coming jump to expensive shrimp has had me reading novels.

I think I have come to the conclusion that there isn't a mechanistic way to do this.

Especially when it comes to Tigers 

Lovely tanks by the way, and beautiful shrimp.



somewhatshocked said:


> If you're new to shrimp keeping, don't just read a handful of threads here on TPT and think you're ready to get your hands on the most expensive, most sensitive shrimp you can afford. Please actually read a few hundred threads and educate yourself before you jump through that hoop. Or if you have questions you can't find answers for, please ask a shrimper here on TPT or post a thread asking the questions. I promise you'll thank yourself for having patience and so will the shrimp.


----------



## ~~~

I want a 20L shrimp tank now.
LOL


----------



## BoxxerBoyDrew

FREAKIN AWESOME READ!!!!!!

AWESOME amount of great info, BEAUTIFUL TANKS and SHRIMP too!!!

THANK YOU for all of the great info and equipment, setting up the tank, and taking care of the little guys and gals!!!

With your info on this post I think I will be able to get a long awaited shrimp tank going soon!!!

THANK YOU AGAIN!!!
Drew


----------



## somewhatshocked

Thanks for the kind words!

An update: Ramshorns ate ANOTHER Marimo ball this weekend. Talk about a $5 lesson I'm tired of learning. They truly are algae assassins.


----------



## micr0

wow looking great! Grats on the offspring


----------



## somewhatshocked

Disclaimer: this is me hyping my Om Nom Nom shrimp food line because, well, just look. And also me being excited about all the new babies I've got:


























All that's just in one corner of the tank.

Random RCS going crazy in the other tank:


















This is why I like Duckweed:


----------



## jakevwapp84

Thats a great pic of duckweed. How much did you originally start with?


----------



## somewhatshocked

Thanks.

No idea how much I started with, honestly, as I've had Duckweed for probably 20 years. I think it out in every tank as needed.


----------



## Jon_TX

So after several months, which light is working out best - the ML LEDs or Coralife T5NO?


----------



## somewhatshocked

They both serve different purposes, really.

T5 fixture = grows plants

Double Bright = mosses (formerly crypts) in this tank

On a more shallow tank or with a 30" fixture, the Double Bright would appeal to more people. Suits my needs for moss, though. They're two wildly different fixtures that can't really be compared.



Jon_TX said:


> So after several months, which light is working out best - the ML LEDs or Coralife T5NO?


----------



## Lowe

somewhatshocked said:


>


Love this shot


----------



## somewhatshocked

Thanks!

I need to try getting a shot of one of my Finnex fixtures shining through Frogbit. The roots look unreal with so much light.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Some shots with my $4 iPhone macro lens:


----------



## green_valley

Pics look good. For $4, that's pretty good result.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Thanks!

OM NOM NOM:










Juvies are coloring up nicely and seem to really enjoy my food.


----------



## Geniusdudekiran

CRS are looking solid!


----------



## somewhatshocked

Caught it! Caught a Crystal murdering a Pond Snail:


















It happens all the time with Neos and Crystals but this is the first time I've been able to catch it.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Another update!

This is about a tenth the amount of shrimp in the CRS tank:










Guess it's safe to say I've got a… you know… a lot of high-quality shrimp?

With at least four more berried mamas. Ruh ro.


----------



## somewhatshocked

CRS juvies are coloring up so nicely:










One of my largest Pond Snails:










It's about an inch in length.


----------



## tropicalmackdaddy

Wow nice shots! Could you tell me where you got it? I wanted a good macro len,
And didnt think so where any good!


----------



## somewhatshocked

It's the cheap $4 macro kit from Amazon.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Some of my lower grade adults that still look awesome:


























These babies look great:


























And get a load of this baby:










It doesn't look like Black Spot Disease to me so I'm not worried.


----------



## tropicalmackdaddy

somewhatshocked said:


> It's the cheap $4 macro kit from Amazon.


Thanks!


----------



## somewhatshocked

Ripped out more than a pound of moss in the RCS tank:










Replaced only some of it. Then added some stones with large form Willow Moss glued on, some with Fissidens, some with Christmas. 

As you can see, it's a baby snail graveyard. Don't let anyone tell you that shrimp won't take down a small snail. 

Some of the Cherries after devouring one of my Organic Barley nuggets:










Decided to use a spare 30" Coralife T5NO instead of the 24" Marineland Double Bright fixture. Once the moss thickens up, there's not enough light for it unless I keep it trimmed. The T5 should help on that front. And the Marineland fixture is now freed up for another tank (likely a half-ten).

Parameters are at a point now, after a bit of work, that I think I'm able to turn this into a Tiger tank. Either Supers or Tangerine.

The PRL/CRS tank is in need of another heavy moss trim:










Guess I need to get on top of that.


----------



## jkan0228

Dang Jake! How do you grow moss so fast? Patience is king? 

Are the two above the only 20L's in this journal? Sorry haven't been keeping track


----------



## somewhatshocked

Moss tends to fill up these tanks in about 5-6 weeks. I mean _fill_. The large Willow Moss I just added to the RCS tank grows a bit more slowly. Hoping it will do okay in this tank without much flow. Pulled it from my 12gal that has tons of movement.

Yep, only two 20Ls in this journal. Should probably add a couple more as I find the time to document them.


----------



## jkan0228

Is it possible to show us a pic of the PRL/CRS tank once its trimmed? I've never really understood how heavy you should trim.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Just grab a scissor and mow it down.

I typically only leave about a centimeter of growth when I trim moss growing on wood.


----------



## jkan0228

What about moss like fissidens that doesn't gain much height?


----------



## somewhatshocked

You just trim it til it looks like you want it to look.

Or, in my case, trim it to the point where you think it'll look good in about two weeks. That usually gives me a bit of time between trims to work on other tanks.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Ruh ro - five RCS deaths in two days. So I am doing water changes and loaded the tank up with almond leaves and alder cones. Water is now a nice tea color:


















pH is stable, no nitrate, no nitrite, no ammonia. It's possible I could have stirred something up when I ripped out all the moss and added some moss from other tanks. But may be bacterial.

Guess I need to pick up some Paraguard and Maracyn 2 today just to be safe. Even though five out of a hundred isn't so bad. Ugh.

While tooling around the tank rack, I noticed a bunch more berried PRLs:










Need to start selling off the young pronto.


----------



## KFryman

Nice shrimp tanks, I'm going to set one up with Fluval plant stratum and shrimp stratum on top of that. Trying to cram as much knowledge as I can before I start lol. What do you do about adding water from the tap to the tank if it lowers pH? 

Is it fine if I PM you and get some more details on keeping shrimp?


----------



## somewhatshocked

Your best bet is to read, read, read, search, search, search through the shrimp sub-forum here on TPT. Read everything linked in the sticky. Then read everything on Planet Inverts and as much as you can on Shrimp Now.

Note that Plant Stratum and Shrimp Stratum are the same thing. Plant Stratum is merely largely than Shrimp Stratum. So there's no need to buy two different types if you haven't already made the purchase.


----------



## somewhatshocked

And just like that, I discovered a tiny Assassin Snail in the Cherry tank! Attempting to attack an ADULT SHRIMP. Head - desk.

Not sure how that happened or where I got an Assassin. 

Guess it's safe to assume there's no bacterial issue after all.

Update: Closer examination of the dead bodies (I kept them in a container of water to see what was up), there appears to be no clouding, no discoloration at all. But there appear to be Assassin Snail nom marks! Dangit.


----------



## mythin

I had an assassin snail kill one of my CRS, that was the end of assassins in my shrimp tank. Some people say its impossible, or they dont have any issues, but after seeing a medium sized one have no issue killing an adult crs, never again.


----------



## gus6464

Where can I get those sponge filters you have? I am looking for one for my 6G Edge but with 1 sponge instead of 2.


----------



## somewhatshocked

This is a rather small Assassin. Quite young. Definitely offing shrimp left and right.



mythin said:


> I had an assassin snail kill one of my CRS, that was the end of assassins in my shrimp tank. Some people say its impossible, or they dont have any issues, but after seeing a medium sized one have no issue killing an adult crs, never again.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Nearly any aquarium shop or eBay.



gus6464 said:


> Where can I get those sponge filters you have? I am looking for one for my 6G Edge but with 1 sponge instead of 2.


----------



## KFryman

I know they are different, well just size wise, but I don't have enough Plant stratum as I used a lot with my 5.5 gallon tank. I got the 16.7 lb bag and I have like half or so left. NOt sure if I should get the 4.4 lb bag or 8.8 lb bag. So I need more so I am just gonna get the shrimp to put on top of the plant.


----------



## somewhatshocked

OM NOM NOM TIME!


















Now that the blasted Assassin Snail has been banished, the Cherries seem to be doing much better:


----------



## KFryman

What is that grey ball the shrimp are on? I saw them in another members tanks


----------



## somewhatshocked

I don't have anything gray in the tank but the brown balls are Azoo Max Bio Balls. Essentially just extra surface area for biofilm and fancy bacteria to grow.

Some of the other gray balls from Shirakura and the like are way more expensive and do fancy things like absorb nitrate (I think). 

The real reason I use these Bio Balls is because they're shrimp magnets and it's an easy way for me to keep an eye on things because shrimp are constantly drawn to the front of the tank.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Berried update: 

7 in the RCS tank

29 (that I could isolate and count) in the PRL/CRS tank


----------



## audioaficionado

I'll get some shrimp just as soon as I can break some stubborn cats from drinking from my 20L. I've put some barriers on either end, but she still jumps up from the floor and hangs on the edge, pulls herself up and walks on the edge to drink at will several times a day/night. I had a cover on it, but she and her other cohorts just jumped on it hard enough to eventually snap it in half

Two of the cohorts have died recently  , but she's healthy, strong and extremely stubborn.

I bought a ten gallon sacrificial tank with a small pond pump to make water sounds to entice them, but they're not interested as long as they can jump 4' onto the 20L.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Spotted a couple cool patterns in the RCS tank today:


















Hope they all turn crazy-looking like that.


----------



## somewhatshocked

I think my RCS tank is happy to be Assassin Snail-free:


















A couple young:


















Tank looks a little rough after the removal of all that moss:










But I think it's growing in quickly. Now need to hide all of those snail shells the dang Assassin left behind.

Bonus - a Ramshorn checking out a Pond Snail:


----------



## somewhatshocked

Time to look at some PRL babies!


































Now for the cool part. Here's a mama who molted after a water change (it's why she looks translucent). Caught her moving eggs into place:










































Look how gross the tank looks during a heavy moss trim:










One of my really high grades:


----------



## somewhatshocked

Got some new goodies today for new tanks:










Roughly 20 bags of it.

Wet:










After a quick rinse:










I tend to prefer the color of Turface, as it resembles Akadama, but this stuff holds up well and isn't hideously expensive.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Since a couple people have strangely asked me tonight what temperatures are best for Neos, I'll answer here (why the questions? weird): They do best in temperatures below 75 degrees Fahrenheit. They do breed faster (and die faster) at warmer temperatures but thrive and do their best (Google around, I'm not the only one who thinks so) in cooler temperatures. 

I've kept them in tanks with temps up to about 81/82. At the 78/79 mark, their lifespans are noticeably shorter and they grow faster/reproduce faster. They're also less active than they are in cooler temperatures.

Mine stay at a constant 72, which seems to be the sweet spot for most shrimp - other than Cardinals.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Dear fellow tank nerds:

I've got a spare Eheim 2213. I want to modify my RCS tank to to include more shrimp or maybe turn it into a Cory tank. Should I use the 2213 (in addition to the existing sponge filters) or buy a 2217?

Suppose I could always stick the 2213 on a 5.5gal and have crazy flow.


----------



## Adri.

I just stalked this thread. Your RCS are gorgeous! I'm so jealous! I'm doing a breeding project with mine - cull the ugly ones, keep the pretty ones. Hopefully I can breed up to high quality ones like that!

I do have a question - how much/how often do you feed your shrimpies?


----------



## somewhatshocked

Thanks.

Shrimp, like most aquatic pets, should only be fed what they can consume in a couple hours. 

I feed every other day unless I have a colony of 300-400 shrimp. Then they get fed about five days per week. 



Adri. said:


> I just stalked this thread. Your RCS are gorgeous! I'm so jealous! I'm doing a breeding project with mine - cull the ugly ones, keep the pretty ones. Hopefully I can breed up to high quality ones like that!
> 
> I do have a question - how much/how often do you feed your shrimpies?


----------



## keithy

Jake, 
can the safe-T-sorb be used for regular stem tank? The texture looks really good, kind of like little gravel.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Yep. Though, just about any substrate can be used for stem tanks.

STS has a high CEC which makes it really great for root feeders. 

You should be able to pick it up all over Lexington for about $4 per bag. Or, if you don't feel like toting it home, Drillspot will drop ship it from the local Grainger to you via UPS for under $10 per bag (total).



keithy said:


> Jake,
> can the safe-T-sorb be used for regular stem tank? The texture looks really good, kind of like little gravel.


----------



## keithy

Dude man, you just made me want to switch to STS now. I was thinking of redoing my 20gal which just finished cycled a few months ago(I don't like the pool filter sand). Now, I have something that I can try. 

Where about in Lexington can I pick it up? Lowes of HD? 
Any particular grade I should be looking out for?




somewhatshocked said:


> Yep. Though, just about any substrate can be used for stem tanks.
> 
> STS has a high CEC which makes it really great for root feeders.
> 
> You should be able to pick it up all over Lexington for about $4 per bag. Or, if you don't feel like toting it home, Drillspot will drop ship it from the local Grainger to you via UPS for under $10 per bag (total).


----------



## somewhatshocked

You can pick it up at any of the Grainger locations in town.


----------



## Green_Flash

Ooh I love your Moss rainforest tank.:icon_wink


----------



## somewhatshocked

Thanks!

Aside from trimming the moss every week, it's a low-maintenance tank for sure. 

I do need to move a few Amanos to the tank to clean up a mess of clado patches but other than that, it's enjoyable. May do that once I decide upon using the 2213 or buying a 2217.


----------



## Hilde

jkan0228 said:


> Bro. Where'd you get those sponge filters? Evil bay? Aquabid? Amazon? Etc?


You can get some Ebay for a few dollars and no shipment charge. Just have to be certain that they can be powered by a pump and not canister filter.


----------



## Hilde

somewhatshocked said:


> May do that once I decide upon using the 2213 or buying a 2217.


The eheim canister filters are my favorite. So quiet. I got a 2232, new, for $60 on Ebay.


----------



## Hilde

keithy said:


> Dude man, you just made me want to switch to STS now.


Safe-T-Sorb sucks carbonates out of the water like a vacuum. Trickerie post 3


----------



## somewhatshocked

The duckweed roots in my RCS tank are out of control!


















Many consider duckweed a pest, I consider it awesome.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Breaking News: I fell in love with a 33gal long (48ishx12ishx12ish) and feel like I need one to replace one of the 20Ls. Ruh ro.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Think I'm growing tired of the Akadama PRL tank. So here's my plan over the next month or two:

Gonna move my Cherries to a new 10gal I've got cycling (there will also be small Cories in the tank). Then ditch the Shrimp Stratum in the Cherry tank, replace it with a bag of Azoo Plant Grower Bed I've got on-hand. Make sure everything is good to go for a few weeks and then move all the PRLs into that tank. Aesthetic of the Akadama is nice but I'm ready for something darker to keep my PRLs on.

The current PRL tank will be shut down. I'll ditch the Akadama to use it for other things and replace it with Safe T Sorb, most likely. Plan to keep either Super Tigers or Tangerines and won't be too concerned about buffering.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Nom update:


















Om nom nom.


----------



## biogenetic40379

nice lookin shrimps, if you ever want to sell some shrimp let me know, my 33g long may need some soon


----------



## vvDO

Wow what a feeding frenzy!!


----------



## somewhatshocked

vvDO: My Om Nom Nom foods tend to do that. They're feeding on Complete Veggie in those photos.

biogenetic40379: Currently only selling them locally. May offer them on the forum in a month or two, though.


----------



## somewhatshocked

As much as I hate to do it, looks like I'm going to have to thin the PRL herd even further. Shipping shrimp is no fun (this is me complaining about my First World problems). Always anxious about them arriving alive even if packed perfectly.

In other news: I isolated a couple Cherries with interesting patterns with hopes of seeing some cool offspring.

And how on earth did I hit 5,000 posts so quickly? Dang.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Still love my Cherry Shrimp:










PRLs really love nomming on all the gunk growing beneath the Akadama in the front of the tank:










Juvies growing up:










They tend to obliterate Alder Cones, as you can see above.

Why I love sponge filters:










They're shrimp magnets!


----------



## somewhatshocked

Am in the process of starting a new 20L for my PRLs (have been selling them and thinning out the herd) and am debating substrate.

The internal debate: order two bags of Aquasoil or order a single bag of Plant Grower Bed to go with the bag of it I've already got.

Gut says Aquasoil, the cheapskate inside says the other stuff. Only time will tell what happens. Heh.


----------



## sayurasem

Aquasoil you know it


----------



## somewhatshocked

Yeah... guess I need to drop the $100 and get it. Not looking forward to that or the time it will take to cycle the tank.


----------



## ikuzo

can salvinia natans roots grow like that?


----------



## somewhatshocked

Salvinia roots are longer than Duckweed roots. So the roots would be much longer than the ones in those images.


----------



## phoenixkiller

I cannot believe I just read this entire thread... took me half an hour, and I test in the 95 percentile for fast reading. That's impressive.

LOVE the way the moss grows so fast in the PRL tank!! No ferts, no CO2, just growing? Wow.

How long are you expecting the tank with AS to cycle? I have a 10 gallon just started cycling, that info would help.

Definitely some of the most beautiful shrimp I have ever seen. Definitely lemme know if you are gonna sell in smaller quantities.

Funny question for ya, my cycling 10g (Mentioned above), the pH is like, 6.0. The kit doesn't read any lower. Any reason for that? 2 or so inches of the AS, 6.5 or so pH RO water, treated with Prime and Bee Shrimp Mineral GH+. Got any ideas? 

You seem like one of the best CRS breeders out there, lol. If you can check out my newest tank journal for CRS, that would be great! Here's a link:

http://http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=199815

Subscribing to your thread!!


----------



## somewhatshocked

One of the best breeders? HA! I appreciate the kind words but I'm just like everyone else on the forum - a hobbyist. I may breed more than the importers but it's just for fun.

Aquasoil tanks usually take 4-6 weeks to be ready for shrimp. That's about how long I cycle all my other shrimp tanks regardless of substrate (when the tank is new), so it's not too much of a hassle. 

Crystals will do fine in pH of 5-6.5, so I wouldn't worry about it. There's no need to treat RO/DI water with prime, though.



phoenixkiller said:


> I cannot believe I just read this entire thread... took me half an hour, and I test in the 95 percentile for fast reading. That's impressive.
> 
> LOVE the way the moss grows so fast in the PRL tank!! No ferts, no CO2, just growing? Wow.
> 
> How long are you expecting the tank with AS to cycle? I have a 10 gallon just started cycling, that info would help.
> 
> Definitely some of the most beautiful shrimp I have ever seen. Definitely lemme know if you are gonna sell in smaller quantities.
> 
> Funny question for ya, my cycling 10g (Mentioned above), the pH is like, 6.0. The kit doesn't read any lower. Any reason for that? 2 or so inches of the AS, 6.5 or so pH RO water, treated with Prime and Bee Shrimp Mineral GH+. Got any ideas?
> 
> You seem like one of the best CRS breeders out there, lol. If you can check out my newest tank journal for CRS, that would be great! Here's a link:
> 
> http://http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=199815
> 
> Subscribing to your thread!!


----------



## phoenixkiller

somewhatshocked said:


> One of the best breeders? HA! I appreciate the kind words but I'm just like everyone else on the forum - a hobbyist. I may breed more than the importers but it's just for fun.
> 
> Aquasoil tanks usually take 4-6 weeks to be ready for shrimp. That's about how long I cycle all my other shrimp tanks regardless of substrate (when the tank is new), so it's not too much of a hassle.
> 
> Crystals will do fine in pH of 5-6.5, so I wouldn't worry about it. There's no need to treat RO/DI water with prime, though.


Not the right wording, I was just quickly typing some stuff so I could get some sleep. I should have said "You look like you know what you are doing, so...". I sure want to be able to have a bustling CRS colony like yours, that's all I was trying to say.

Eh, that's how long I thought all tanks took to cycle. On my first tank I didn't know about cycling at all and therefore didn't measure the cycling process time, and I insta-cycled my 55 and other 10g with seeded media (Took only a few days with each, mini-cycle only, no major cycle). 

I really don't mean to thread-jack, but one more question: I always thought if pH bottomed out, it would stall the cycle, is that true?? I don't want the cycle to take longer than it has to.

Thanks bro!

P.S. lemme know if you ever have clippings of the moss, looks better than ADA tanks... beautiful!!!


----------



## somewhatshocked

Bacterial development may slow a bit but it won't stop.

Shrimp nerds routinely cycle tanks at 5 pH without an issue. Just have to have patience.



phoenixkiller said:


> I always thought if pH bottomed out, it would stall the cycle, is that true?? I don't want the cycle to take longer than it has to.


----------



## phoenixkiller

Ahh patience... Why is it the thing I have an abnormal shortage of? Bad hobby for a guy sick with add-cool-shrimp-now syndrome lol.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Even if you could get your tank cycled in a couple days, I'd still recommend running things (adding ammonia for the bacteria) for 4-6 weeks before adding any shrimp. Even Neos.

Allows tons of surface bacteria/biofilm to grow, some algae to develop and creates a better environment for detrivores like shrimp.


----------



## phoenixkiller

So the lesson here is better safe than sorry pretty much?

I'll take my time adding shrimp. They're beauties!!


----------



## AVN

Jake, just saw the post for a sweet deal on your PRL+goodies. I'm definitely going to snatch it up at a later date if nobody else does. I've been cycling a 20L for two weeks, so hopefully they don't get taken first. ;(

May I inquire the source of your PRL?


----------



## somewhatshocked

I don't sell outside the For Sale section, so all inquiries should occur there or via private message.


----------



## AVN

Was just asking about where you got them originally, made a comment about interest but nothing about definite sales.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Definitely better safe than sorry.

Really, it's just a good idea to develop the proper environment for any critter you plan to house. Fish, shrimp, even snails. 

I sometimes run reef tanks for five or six months before any small fish ever get to move in.



phoenixkiller said:


> So the lesson here is better safe than sorry pretty much?
> 
> I'll take my time adding shrimp. They're beauties!!


----------



## somewhatshocked

They're offspring/mix from several lines. Shawn, Benibachi, some from Taiwan. 

Also added a couple of German PRLs several months ago but I have no idea if they ever bred.



AVN said:


> Was just asking about where you got them


----------



## phoenixkiller

That brings me to a question for you mods. I noticed recently that people have somehow been able to post in FS threads. How do they do that???


----------



## somewhatshocked

Some threads can receive comments because new site ownership is attempting to make changes to allow comments to be left without bumping threads.



phoenixkiller said:


> That brings me to a question for you mods. I noticed recently that people have somehow been able to post in FS threads. How do they do that???


----------



## AVN

Sweet. You'll be hearing from me sometime between Christmas and the New Year.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Will I ever be able to break my Cherry Shrimp from murdering young Pond Snails? 

No matter how much protein I offer them, I always catch them just cold murdering snails. Yes, this for real happens. And they're not sick snails. Not already dead. There are shells littered across the tank.

I think I'm the only person who complains about losing Pond Snails. But I've been trying to breed these snails selectively for a couple years. Guess it's time to move the snails to a shrimp-free tank.


----------



## Rob in Puyallup

I gotta say Jake... If this weren't kinda funny it would be sad. (or the other way around!) 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 2


----------



## GreenBliss

I never heard of Neo shrimp killing snails without them being sick or dying. I am new to this hobby, but does this happen a lot or is this just random for Neos? I plan on keeping different snails with mine in the future once I get the tank started next year.


----------



## somewhatshocked

There are a couple other members who have observed it.

I'd say it's highly random. But this particular tank is driving me nuts with the snails. It's never large snails - only the small ones.


----------



## MABJ

My neos do not kill my ramshorn projects, but they do kill bladder snails, no matter what size. 

I don't know what it is either lol


MABJ's iDevice used for this message


----------



## Rob in Puyallup

Is a crazy thought, innocent shrimp killing slimy snails. 

Thinking there is an excellent reason for setting up a new tank, though! 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 2


----------



## AVN

I can vouch for Jake here, my Cherries love baby snails too, doesn't matter if they're ramshorns or pond or MTS, they will actively go after and attempt to devour snails that they can pick up.

That's why I selectively breed spotted blue ramhorns in a 2g now. :3


----------



## somewhatshocked

I'm also finding small Ramshorn shells littered about as I lift up moss and cholla. Greeeaaaaaat.

Snail murderers.


----------



## AVN

I have translucent shells because blues are clear, if I had enough it might make a neat substrate. :3


----------



## somewhatshocked

The solution: Moving breeding snails into my Endler tank. While the Endlers occasionally eat snails, they don't murder nearly as many as my Cherries.

Heck, I've got a new Dwarf Puffer that seems to kill fewer snails than those shrimp.


----------



## Rob in Puyallup

It's becoming obvious that I need to move some of my Cherries to my Crystals Only bookshelf tank. It's being taken over by snails! 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 2


----------



## somewhatshocked

Bloodworm day in the fish room!










They just grab and go.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Every time I get ready to shut down the 20L with Cherries? I notice a berried mama like the shrimp just behind the rock in this photo:










Here's hoping she releases those babies soon so they can grow large enough for me to find them.


----------



## MABJ

Well.. You could catch those mamas and put them in a breeder box?


----------



## somewhatshocked

I've got a spare breeder and an Elite Micro filter/pump but that would require actually setting things up. 

I'll have to start doing that once all the other babies in the tank start growing up.


----------



## MABJ

I've noticed with cherries, they're almost ready to get berried again while being pregnant. So it is difficult to get them all cleaned out lol. 

You could systematically take male shrimp out of the tank to where ever you're putting them. 

It'd take time like you said, but berries would stop.


----------



## AVN

MABJ said:


> I've noticed with cherries, they're almost ready to get berried again while being pregnant. So it is difficult to get them all cleaned out lol.
> 
> You could systematically take male shrimp out of the tank to where ever you're putting them.
> 
> It'd take time like you said, but berries would stop.


Well, isn't that how you control the breeding population? I remove all the males, and only introduce the best looking ones!


----------



## MABJ

Of course it is lol. 

But cherry males aren't the best judges of how the prettier females will look. 

I'm also not sure of Jake's goals.


----------



## somewhatshocked

It's just one of my random Cherry tanks. This particular one is populated with PFR culls that still get pretty red. 

Slowly working to shut this tank down, toss in New Amazonia and then move in some of my Pure Red Lines and some of my Bees.

Shutting down the PRL tank, as well, so I can use New Amazonia in it. That will house various Caridina as I rescape tanks and move things around.


----------



## Bserve

When are you gonna start selling some CRS?


----------



## somewhatshocked

I sold quite a few 6-8 weeks ago in the For Sale section. Keep an eye out there, as many members sell shrimp.



Bserve said:


> When are you gonna start selling some CRS?


----------



## AVN

Cool. Shut down that PRL tank and send me some!


----------



## somewhatshocked

Goal is still to shut these tanks down and start new ones.

Here are my latest Cherry juvies:










And my PRL culls:


















Their shells are a bit splotchy because I just did a water change and yanked out a ton of moss.


----------



## Rob in Puyallup

Those are culls?

Damn, I'd be proud to own em!


----------



## Rob in Puyallup

PS: What type of seed-head are those with the cherries?


----------



## somewhatshocked

Those are Alder Cones they've stripped down.


----------



## Rob in Puyallup

Hungry! Maybe I remove mine too soon. Lol 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 2


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## somewhatshocked

Definitely! I leave them in until they're stripped bare.


----------



## MABJ

Beautiful shrimp, dude!!


----------



## somewhatshocked

They always come out for food:


----------



## shrimpnmoss

your food rocks....I'm still using the sample from the trial period....the test run batch...but I rotate out like 20 different foods so a little last a long time...


----------



## somewhatshocked

Thanks!

This feeding was rehydrated black worms - they obliterated them.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Just scored a 33gal long and am toying with ditching one of these 20s in order to justify the new tank. Or maybe keeping them all.

Will I go all fancy and buy three bags of ADA Aquasoil and have no money for anything else? Or will I cheap out and use Safe T Sorb? Will I keep Neos and Tigers or will it be Taiwan Bees? The world may never know.

Now I just need to figure out how to hide this tank. Maybe this is a teaching moment? Don't leave me home alone or I will start another tank.


----------



## Rob in Puyallup

Congrats on the new tank, Jake...

Wish I had the space for one like that!!!


----------



## somewhatshocked

I got away with it! Not even so much as the stink eye. Victory.

Now to find a stand that isn't atrocious and figure out lighting. May end up going with a couple Fugerays or a T5NO. Decisions, decisions.


----------



## vvDO

somewhatshocked said:


> Just scored a 33gal long and am toying with ditching one of these 20s in order to justify the new tank. Or maybe keeping them all.
> 
> Will I go all fancy and buy three bags of ADA Aquasoil and have no money for anything else? Or will I cheap out and use Safe T Sorb? Will I keep Neos and Tigers or will it be Taiwan Bees? The world may never know.
> 
> Now I just need to figure out how to hide this tank. Maybe this is a teaching moment? Don't leave me home alone or I will start another tank.


How about a 9L bag of aquasoil topped with Safe T Sorb?


----------



## somewhatshocked

I'll go one way or the other. Either with the buffering and nutrients of ADA or the cost benefit of STS.

Need to pick some ADA stuff up for other tanks (and one of these 20Ls), so I'm leaning heavily in that direction.


----------



## somewhatshocked

The latest scuttlebutt on my spare 20L involves possibly creating a Stiphodon atropurpureus habitat. Which means spending $100 on a 30" Finnex Ray II (in order to grow good algae) and maybe picking up a powerful canister filter or two strong AquaClears to create enough flow and oxygenation.

This forum is such a bad influence.


----------



## somewhatshocked

I'll be adding some cool new wild-type Tiger Shrimp to the Cherry tank on Wednesday. So looks like I'll be keeping things on the shrimp train chugging along for a while.

Also have three bags of Aquasoil coming this week, so I'm planning to redo one of the tanks for PRLs and TBs.


----------



## somewhatshocked

The Tigers:


----------



## Rob in Puyallup

Loving the red one, Jake! 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 2


----------



## somewhatshocked

Now that they're settled into the 20, they're coloring up nicely. Some silvers, blues, greens, reds, goldens. 

I think more people would be interested in these standard, forgotten critters if they knew how beautiful they are.

The other regular Tigers I've got have been bred and bred and bred and bred and look really plain. Which is why I'm pretty excited about these.


----------



## somewhatshocked

I think I'm going to use a spare AC70 I've got on one of these 20s.

With the hope of maybe ditching some of the air-driven sponges (but keeping a couple).


----------



## somewhatshocked

New project: growing Indian Almond Trees INSIDE. 

Moving them out during the summer months, of course.


----------



## shmeeg

^^ is that to provide a cost saving benefit over buying them in bulk for the umpteen thousand tanks you have


----------



## somewhatshocked

Well... it'll take several years to be able to produce leaves at the rate I use them. But having my own trees that are safe will be beneficial on the cost front.

Multiple Tank Syndrome is expensive.


----------



## MABJ

How big are the trees? Obviously the leaves go through some drying process at a certain age?


MABJ's iDevice used for this message


----------



## somewhatshocked

You can control their size by limiting growth. My in-laws in Seoul have them at about 7-8 feet inside their home. 

Since I have areas in my home where the ceiling is 30 feet high and with sun exposure, I can handle some larger ones. (Already have other trees at about 15 feet) 

They're only four or five inches tall right now but in a few years, I should have a decent amount of leaves for my use at home.

Yep, the leaves either dry as leaves normally do on a tree or you remove them and dry them.


----------



## gnod

somewhatshocked said:


> You can control their size by limiting growth. My in-laws in Seoul have them at about 7-8 feet inside their home.
> 
> Since I have areas in my home where the ceiling is 30 feet high and with sun exposure, I can handle some larger ones. (Already have other trees at about 15 feet)
> 
> They're only four or five inches tall right now but in a few years, I should have a decent amount of leaves for my use at home.
> 
> Yep, the leaves either dry as leaves normally do on a tree or you remove them and dry them.


i know this is irrelevant but you have in laws in korea? 
are you korean also? kinda cool! 

oh and of course, dope shrimps, tanks, the whole nine yards. hehe


----------



## somewhatshocked

Nope, I'm not Korean. 



gnod said:


> i know this is irrelevant but you have in laws in korea?
> are you korean also? kinda cool!
> 
> oh and of course, dope shrimps, tanks, the whole nine yards. hehe


----------



## somewhatshocked

Have been trying to figure out why the 20L filled with Pure Red Lines stopped breeding. Wasn't seasonal, as all of my other PRL tanks are just fine.

So two days ago I did the very last thing I could do - removed some squares of stainless steel mesh. Whattya know? Now I have 17 berried females.

Coincidence? Maybe.


----------



## MABJ

Very, very, very weird.. What could it be?


----------



## somewhatshocked

Thinking it's something with the stainless steel.


----------



## MABJ

Yeah but what aspect of steel would make them stop breeding? Rust?


----------



## somewhatshocked

It's the same steel folks are using here on the forum for moss and such. I've always suspected that it's not truly tank-safe. Now I'm guess it's really not.

Haven't found any traces of heavy metals or other toxins that my fancy pharm/chemist neighbor can detect, so I'm not certain yet. Tomorrow he's gonna test for petrochem stuff.


----------



## MABJ

Keep us posted. That's worrisome.


----------



## SomeCanuck

Could it maybe be because it's galvanized steel and not true stainless steel? I've been having a hell of a time finding true stainless steel mesh locally.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Possibly.

Though, I believe (it's my opinion) most of the mesh folks are using on the forum is just low-grade and breaks down over a few months. That's the only thing I can figure out. 

Upon closer inspection, the area where the mesh was located... the substrate has turned almost black.

I typically wouldn't leave stainless steel in a tank for so long but I'd forgotten that's what the moss was attached to. 

Should have a new 20L up and running with Aquasoil early this week so I can move all the shrimp over in about a month.



SomeCanuck said:


> Could it maybe be because it's galvanized steel and not true stainless steel? I've been having a hell of a time finding true stainless steel mesh locally.


----------



## somewhatshocked

The blackness I mentioned:










It's not lava rock - that's Akadama that was covered by stainless steel mesh.

Excited to shut the tank down and start a different 20L for them.


----------



## SomeCanuck

Ack! That's a little scary looking : / Makes me wonder what my flourite black might be hiding where I've got my coral moss and flame moss held down by stainless mesh.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Scary, indeed.

But now I'm up to 40+ (!!!) berried mamas. Which is crazy.


----------



## MABJ

Wow! Very impressive. Hello 800 babies on the way lol. Congrats man.


----------



## SomeCanuck

Lots of beautiful shramps heading your way then!


----------



## MABJ

If half of those survived and you sold them at a minimum of $3 each (super conservative number lol), you'd have a solid $1200 there. That seems like a hearty reward. Just put two and two together in my head. That's mind boggling lol. 

Unless you plan on keeping them and letting them breed out


----------



## jkan0228

somewhatshocked said:


> Scary, indeed.
> 
> But now I'm up to 40+ (!!!) berried mamas. Which is crazy.


This just shows me that I still have a long ways to go even with my neos :hihi:

Might get some PRLs from you to try out in the future!


----------



## vvDO

somewhatshocked said:


> Scary, indeed.
> 
> But now I'm up to 40+ (!!!) berried mamas. Which is crazy.


Looks like you may need yet another tank!!


----------



## somewhatshocked

Just finished assembling a brand new Muscle Rack. It's gonna be a *TIGHT* squeeze but it'll be:


20L for PRLs/TBs on the bottom shelf

10gal (with maybe a few inches to squeeze my arm in the tank) on the shelf above that with a 5.5gal beside it

Two 2.11gal cubes on the shelf above that, along with a few other small emersed tanks.

Shelf above that will house tank goodies

Very top shelf will hide various buckets and such

Will I survive starting up the new 20L and getting the other tanks transferred over? We may never know...


----------



## somewhatshocked

I usually use about two bags (18L) of Aquasoil in each 20L.

But here's my latest tank with a single 9L bag:










Do I _really_ need to add more?

Have another full bag and 3/4 of another but… is it really necessary?

I'm leaning toward not necessary.


----------



## golfwang

I ordered 2 bags and only used one of the two for my 20L. 1.5" depth in the front and everywhere else is about 2.5" is what I managed to scape. 

Sent from my HTC Sensation using Tapatalk 2


----------



## somewhatshocked

Think I'm gonna stick with a single bag. Just don't want to lug another bag up six flights of stairs today.

If there ends up being a buffering issue, I can just start another tank, I guess. Not too worried. RO/DI water is used and there will also be driftwood in the tank. 

This won't be a really well-scaped tank but will be for shrimp. 5 or 6 Anubias and a bunch of moss, not much more. Want to really be able to keep an eye on the shrimp.


----------



## golfwang

Can't wait to see your new setup going always a pleasure to see your tanks and shrimp. My tank has been cycling for nearly a month now hope the ammonia is done leaching in a few weeks. I'm also just growing moss, needle leaf and java fern in my setup getting prepared for new batch of CRS.

Sent from my HTC Sensation using Tapatalk 2


----------



## somewhatshocked

golfwang: Thanks! 

Have you started a tank journal yet? If not, you should. It's a handy thing to have.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Now it's time for a new light fixture. I'm waaaaay over T5NO and want to go the low-light LED route. 

Won't be going the Finnex route again until their 30" fixture isn't a repackaged 24" panel. 

Have a spare Aqueon Modular LED unit I could use but only have a Colormax "bulb" for it. Need to pick up a couple Daylight "bulbs" - and I think that could support moss and Anubias. Anyone else using that fixture? I figure it won't be terrible if all I have to invest is about $20.


----------



## vvDO

Looking at the specs a fugeray 30" has more LEDs than a 24" fixture. A ray2 fixture 30" is the same as a 24"




somewhatshocked said:


> Now it's time for a new light fixture. I'm waaaaay over T5NO and want to go the low-light LED route.
> 
> Won't be going the Finnex route again until their 30" fixture isn't a repackaged 24" panel.
> 
> Have a spare Aqueon Modular LED unit I could use but only have a Colormax "bulb" for it. Need to pick up a couple Daylight "bulbs" - and I think that could support moss and Anubias. Anyone else using that fixture? I figure it won't be terrible if all I have to invest is about $20.


----------



## Rob in Puyallup

I just received a finnex ray 2 18 inch for my 10 gallon marine tank. Actinic /10,000k. 

It's very bright. I am supplementing it with a compact fluorescent. 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 2


----------



## somewhatshocked

30" Fugeray uses a 24" panel and only costs a few bucks more because it's nearly the same fixture. Much like the 16" fixture has a 12" panel of LEDs. Not so useful in shallow tanks when the price is factored in. 

Other fixtures like the 20" are great.

But back to my point: I'd prefer not to spend a ton of money and am interested in other experiences with the Aqueon fixture that I already own.



vvDO said:


> Looking at the specs a fugeray 30" has more LEDs than a 24" fixture. A ray2 fixture 30" is the same as a 24"


----------



## somewhatshocked

Beginning of the new tank:










Still need to toss the Anubias in and maybe a clump of Subwassertang. 

Large breeder box to be attached so the Aquasoil inside can cycle:










Won't be doing a ton with it but will stick some lava rock in there with a piece of moss-covered wood.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Installed the breeder box:










Couple pieces of wood covered in Christmas Moss with a piece of black lava rock also covered in moss.

Now need to figure out how to get some light to the moss. Maybe something that clamps to the side of the rack. Or an SMD5050 LED strip.


----------



## Rob in Puyallup

Will you be putting something on the pump to protect the shrimp? 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 2


----------



## somewhatshocked

It's an Elite Micro internal filter, so there's a big chunk of sponge in there to prevent any shrimp from getting in. Have been using them on my larger tanks for quite some time with no problem. 



Rob in Puyallup said:


> Will you be putting something on the pump to protect the shrimp?
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 2


----------



## chrislewistx

I have been following this thread since last year, and really enjoy it. This evening I decided to re-read the entire journal, all 22 pages.....lol it is still a good read.

I have a couple of questions. Did I miss it or have you made a decision on what you are using for filtration on this latest 20L?

Also, you mention you are over T5NO fixtures and thinking of a low cost LED fixture. I was curious why you are waaaaaaay over T5. I can see LED being the future, but was wondering what your reasoning was in regards to the 20L.

Also, a local friend purchased some of your food and it is amazing stuff. 

Keep up the great journals. It really feeds my love of my 20 long tanks.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Thanks!

Yep, ended up with an AC70… which is louder than one can imagine. Gonna have to do some filter surgery to make things a bit more tolerable.

I'm way over T5NO fixtures because I'm tired of changing bulbs, tired of the added heat, tired of the electricity bills. Have been using LED fixtures on nearly everything else, so I figure I should go ahead and switch for my 20s.

Update time! Beyond the filter surgery, my goals for this week include: baffling the flow of the Elite into the breeder box so it doesn't make a splashy sound, moving Anubias from another tank, testing out a few LED fixtures, probably doing a partial water change - no way am I going to swap out 100% of the water unless ammonia goes above 5PPM, ordering a clip-on LED for the breeder box or rigging up something else for it.


----------



## chrislewistx

Thanks for the reply. Your response on the T5NO lights was what I expected it to be. Exact same reasons I want to change over to LED. I will be watching your journals to see which LED fixtures you end up with. Lately, I have been considering the buildmyled.com fixture. 

I am surprised the AC70 is that loud. My new 20L was going to get one or an AC50 plumed into a small canister filter for a little extra volume. Also, to make use of things I had laying around.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Not all AC70s are loud. I expect something is a bit loose or needs some extra TLC in order to be quieted. 

BuildMyLED = $$$$. Especially for a tank this size. I'm only interested in being low light in my shrimp tanks, so I'll never need something that complex. Probably going to use the modular fixture I've already got on-hand.


----------



## chrislewistx

You are right, a little pricey. I was actually thinking of the buildmyled.com fixture with a dimmer for a 40b/ high tech/ CO2 tank I want to setup. 

Have you used the Finnex Ray2 on any of your 20Ls yet? I know you commented at one point about it being a repackaged 24" fixture.


----------



## dougolasjr

somewhatshocked said:


> It's an Elite Micro internal filter, so there's a big chunk of sponge in there to prevent any shrimp from getting in. Have been using them on my larger tanks for quite some time with no problem.



I have the same setup on my 10g.


----------



## madness

chrislewistx said:


> You are right, a little pricey. I was actually thinking of the buildmyled.com fixture with a dimmer for a 40b/ high tech/ CO2 tank I want to setup.
> 
> Have you used the Finnex Ray2 on any of your 20Ls yet? I know you commented at one point about it being a repackaged 24" fixture.



I have empty 20L tanks and 30" Finnex Ray2 fixtures. If you only have a concern about light spread I could probably toss one on and take a look at it. I obviously wouldn't be able to vouch for the growth rates (though with such a short tank the Ray2 should be tossing in significant amount of light).


----------



## madness

Somewhatshocked: I think that a short tank like a 20L is probably the only situation where the Aqueon modular LED would provide truly sufficient lighting.

I have a 30" fixture with three daylight strips over a 29G low tech tank but it hasn't been running long enough to learn much. I mostly have floating plants in it anyways so I wouldn't be able to vouch for the amount of growth at the substrate.


----------



## somewhatshocked

madness: I think you're right. Since the fixture will only be about ten inches or so from the substrate, I'm thinking a Colormax and two Daylights will suffice, maybe? Since it's just going to be Anubias nana (which are already so big they'll take up half the tank) and some moss.

It's probably the route I'm going to go so I don't have to spend a bunch of cash on this tank. Need to introduce some new Taiwan Bee blood to my existing lines and the extra dollars saved will go a long way toward that goal.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Bought a clip-on LED desk lap at Lowes earlier to go over the breeder box. It's actually about 5000K in color temperature, which is surprising. 24 1.4w diodes, cheapy brushed stainless steel. A ton of light.

Unfortunately, my MacBook Pro has gone to Appleland for a week or repair and I'm limited to my iPad. Will only be posting updated photos if I get the wild hair to use an FTP client on the iPad. Suffice it to say: the breeder box now looks really cool!


----------



## CPDzeke

Do you know what that light is called? Maybe post a link? I would love to see this!


----------



## madness

On a 20L I think that the single daylight would keep the anubias and moss alive but it might not display a ton of growth.

Not sure that you need all 3 strips installed though. 2 might cut it.

The PAR data available on these fixtures isn't super comprehensive but I think that 2 strips at 10" should be more than 15 PAR and maybe closer to 20 mmol.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Finally uploading images with my iPad (ugh - need a better app for cropping images to a particular pixel size).

Here are some rough shots from the iPhone of the new breeder box LED:


































Since those images were taken, I've actually raised the light quite a bit and added a bit of fiberglass window screen on top of the box. Should be more than sufficient for moss.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Have started slowly moving Crypts and other random plants into the tank:










Breeder box update:


----------



## Nami

Just wanted to say that this thread is very inspiring. 

I'm curious: What did you decide on for lighting? I noticed you had the marineland, then the coralife, and are now talking about the aqueon?

I'm trying to do something similar to the 20L's. You mentioned that you would get an aquaclear20 instead of sponge filter? Or in addition?


----------



## somewhatshocked

All of those fixtures were on separate tanks. There's more than one tank here in the thread. There are currently Coralife fixtures on my tanks. The new one included. Will likely used an Aqueon Modular fixture I've got on-hand, though.

I wouldn't use an AC20 on a 20 gallon tank. AC50 at a minimum but ideally AC70 (which is what I'm using on the new tank) or AC110.



Nami said:


> I'm curious: What did you decide on for lighting? I noticed you had the marineland, then the coralife, and are now talking about the aqueon?
> 
> I'm trying to do something similar to the 20L's. You mentioned that you would get an aquaclear20 instead of sponge filter? Or in addition?


----------



## Nami

Would you use a Finnex fugeray?

Could one bypass sponge filters if you have an appropriately sized AC?


----------



## somewhatshocked

Fugeray = algae farm without raising it or using CO2. You'll definitely want to check things out in the lighting forum.

You can use any kind of filtration you desire as long as it's able to process the amount of water your tank holds and can handle the population of livestock you've got in the tank. Sponges, HOBs, canisters. It's up to you, your wallet and what works best in a particular situation.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Looking forward to shutting the PRL tank down in a week or two when I move everything over to the new tank:










Lots of new babies.


----------



## Wasserpest

That's a lot of them, congrats. But you need to clean the window, and buy a macro lens from the proceeds. :wink:

Interesting comment with regards to the T5NO. I always thought of them as fairly cool running and energy efficient. Do LEDs make such a difference (assuming similar light levels)?


----------



## somewhatshocked

Ha! Thanks. The tank is hidden away in my tank room, so I try to keep all sides and part of the front covered in algae when possible. It's become a tank where I chuck in whatever plant that needs to be cleaned up by the Amanos in there and whatever extra moss I've got - which inevitably gets eaten by the healthy (evil) scud population.

I've got a Canon T3i. Just so much more convenient to pull the old iPhone out of my pocket to snap a few photos. In fact, I don't think I've even taken my newest macro lens out of the original packaging... That's some real laziness, I admit. Shameful, in fact.

These T5NO fixtures raise the tank temperature about four degrees. When it's hotter than you-know-what outside and sticky humid, it gets tough to cool things down unless I remove the tops/add fans. Or crank up the AC. As I've transitioned away from T5s the electricity bill has dropped about $30. Was running a lot of them and have a few more fixtures to leave in the dust. In total, switching to more efficient tank equipment has allowed me to drop electric costs by about $50 on a monthly basis. 

Just about any LED fixture I've used has had little to no impact on tank temperature, which is a plus for shrimp and cool water species. Huge cut in electrical costs. The less power I use, the more quickly I can fully convert to solar. Almost there.


----------



## Wasserpest

I totally agree with you about cutting electrical costs. Just wondering if you really gain that much by switching to LED (again, assuming you are not reducing lighting levels).

$50/month is a lot! Assuming you pay ~10c/kWh, that would be 500 kWh, a savings of about 2000W per hour assuming 8 hours lighting period. :icon_idea

I have been pondering going solar too. With prices of panels dropping to really affordable levels, and various incentives, it does cut the ROI and makes a lot of sense.

(And send me that macro lens... I will unpack it for ya...) :wink:


----------



## somewhatshocked

Have swapped 31 fixtures so far, most of them 36" T5HO. As a result, the AC is on less, using less energy to supply lighting, rarely even need a fan for the sensitive shrimp.

I think it's definitely worth it. Have swapped most of the T5NO fixtures for the cheapy modular LED systems, Finnex and some other/similar OEM units. Even using SMD adhesive lighting strips over some of my more shallow tanks.

No more buying replacement bulbs every 6-8mos. No idea what that's saving me. Probably $15 per tank? Some tanks $25ish. Don't even want to think about what I've spent on Giesman bulbs.


----------



## Nami

somewhatshocked said:


> Have swapped 31 fixtures so far, most of them 36" T5HO. As a result, the AC is on less, using less energy to supply lighting, rarely even need a fan for the sensitive shrimp.
> 
> I think it's definitely worth it. Have swapped most of the T5NO fixtures for the cheapy modular LED systems, Finnex and some other/similar OEM units. Even using SMD adhesive lighting strips over some of my more shallow tanks.
> 
> No more buying replacement bulbs every 6-8mos. No idea what that's saving me. Probably $15 per tank? Some tanks $25ish. Don't even want to think about what I've spent on Giesman bulbs.


You're selling me on this.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Will the new 20L ever finish the initial cycle process? Will there ever be a Nitrite reading?

The world may never know.


----------



## somewhatshocked

After weeks of procrastination, I moved several Anubias nana specimens into the new 20L. Still have several plants to move over but want to reconfigure the moss layout first.

Not going for a fancy scaped look, just something clean and shrimp-friendly. It's a breeding tank that's generally out of view, so the simpler the better.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Will likely have to move some of this moss to another tank because it will be out-of-control soon enough:










Slowly moving Anubias over:










Even the breeder box moss is doing well:


----------



## mjbn

I just went through this whole thread from page 1... wow... wow........ 

Your tanks, shrimp, and food are amazing:O


----------



## sayurasem

May I know what moss in the breeder box?


----------



## somewhatshocked

Sure. Take a moment to read a few posts ahead of yours and you'll see.



sayurasem said:


> May I know what moss in the breeder box?


----------



## somewhatshocked

The latest tank was started on March 28. It's now May 10.

It's going to take another million years for ammonia to quit it in this batch of Aquasoil, apparently.

At least the shrimp will love it when they get to move in.

(Patience, patience, patience…)


----------



## somewhatshocked

Just swapped out about 12 gallons of water (it's all I had mixed up at the time) to try to get ammonia levels to drop. 

We'll see what happens over the next couple days.

Here's hoping!


----------



## somewhatshocked

Did another 100% water change today and am still sitting at 0.25% Ammonia.

Gonna give it another two days to see what happens.

Something must be up with this batch of Aquasoil because all the cycling with my tanks the past few months is way outta whack.

P.S. to shrimp newbies: Don't let my impatience discourage you.


----------



## assasin6547

My aquasoil has not finished leaching yet either and it's been 3 weeks. How long does it normally take, in you experience? Since Ammonia isn't lethal at a low pH could one add livestock before it finished leaching?


----------



## somewhatshocked

Usually takes 4-6 weeks.

Even if you can add livestock, I don't recommend it. Tanks are always happier and healthier when they're allowed to grow and age prior to adding livestock. Biofilm is nice - especially for shrimp.


----------



## somewhatshocked

After another 100% water change, I think Ammonia may be at zero!

New growth on the crypts is exciting:










Always love it when the colors pop out like that on new leaves.

Breeder box is doing well:










Hoping to move a bunch of PRLs over to the tank tonight or tomorrow if everything remains steady.


----------



## golfwang

Looking good can't wait for your PRL migration.

Sent from my HTC Sensation using Tapatalk 2


----------



## somewhatshocked

Me either!

I want to shut the Akadama PRL tank down like it's nobody's business.


----------



## golfwang

Indeed I'm also glad I made the transition from DRL to ADA for my wine reds couldn't be happier.


somewhatshocked said:


> Me either!
> 
> I want to shut the Akadama PRL tank down like it's nobody's business.




Sent from my HTC Sensation using Tapatalk 2


----------



## somewhatshocked

Moved five PRLs into the breeder box a couple hours ago and they seem to be doing swell so far. If all is well tomorrow, I plan to move them and 25-30 other PRLs to the main tank. 

There are unfortunately so many babies in the old PRL tank that I think I'm going to have to keep it running for at least another month. Probably also 10 berried mamas that I'm too afraid to move. 

This is going to be fun.


----------



## MABJ

Sounds like lots of PRLs to sell off  wink wink.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Looks like I greatly misspoke. There are roughly 200 (that's when I gave up counting, anyway - didn't include any of the babies) PRLs in the Akadama tank and there are 14 berried females. 

So I'm maybe going to move, oh, 50-60 shrimp over. Head - desk.

Tomorrow is going to be fun. Here's to being beyond sore after netting out all those shrimp. Gonna try to focus on the highest quality critters. Wish me luck.


----------



## MABJ

Good luck.. How solid are the least solid specimens?


----------



## somewhatshocked

Feel free to scroll through some of the photos here to see them.

Basically, they're all extremely solid unless they're super-old and near death males. Which I almost never get to see, as bodies are apparently devoured as soon as they die.



MABJ said:


> Good luck.. How solid are the least solid specimens?


----------



## somewhatshocked

The five PRLs in the breeder box are doing well and have colored up:










Dimmed the brightness setting on my phone so you can get a better look at the moss: 










The white specks are chunks of homemade mineral stone.

When the photoperiod begins in the shrimp room, I'll be spending a couple hours netting shrimp to transfer to the new tank.

Part of me wishes I'd actually hardscaped this new tank, as all my other tanks have been. The other part of me knows it's way more practical to have more visibility in a tank when breeding PRLs and TBs than it is to have a gorgeous branch of manzanita.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Guess I did something right. All the shrimp are alive and well - and eating like little hogs.

Can't believe the newest tank started on March 28 and shrimp weren't added until May 16/17. 50 days. Guess it's not really that long... just started getting impatient toward the end.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Have been trying to net this giant PRL female out of the tank for a week:










So, naturally she gets berried before I can remove her.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Just ordered new Sera GH and Nitrate kits from Southern Oak Aquatics.

For those who constantly ask me what I use to test? It's Sera.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Here's the newest rack from earlier today:










Ignore the mess - was moving a 10gal over and doing all kinds of testing on a new rack of 20 tenners.

Toying with ideas for the space beside the 10gal and for the space where all the API test kits are. 

Where the kits are: Maybe another 20cm cube by the two I've already got? Maybe a 25cm cube with a 10" Finnex FugeRay? Maybe one of the random 2.5gal rimmed tanks I've already got combined with a medium Marina breeder box? Even thinking about moving one of my 3gal longs to that spot.

Long story short: I want another tank to focus on breeding super-red Crystals.

By the 10gal: Maybe moving my 5.5gal Tiger tank there. It would fit with the front of the tank facing out the right side of the rack. Or a 5.5gal filled with emersed goodies.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Couldn't find anyone to take the remaining 60+ Cherries in their 20L, so I'm currently dripping them into my 5.5gal (ugh).

Looking forward to shutting that tank down and taking it somewhere new.


----------



## somewhatshocked

A side view of the newest 20L:










A young male PRL fresh from a molt:










Tried to catch him in the act but he was way too fast. Love that he looks so transparent after molting, as he's one of the whitest shrimp I've ever owned.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Salvaged some random Crypts from another tank, clipped off the melted leaves and threw them in this tank:










Current Satellite Freshwater+ LED fixture should be here Friday/Monday to replace the janky Coralife mess I've got currently rigged up above the latest 20L. Looking forward to it and hope there are no dark/dead spots at the ends of the tank.


----------



## Rob in Puyallup

I have an LED fixture over my reef tank. Guess it'll be easier to set up the lighting over plants than over coral. Seems these guys are picky about intensity. (These are dimmable) 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 2


----------



## somewhatshocked

I'm just excited about being able to break another Coralife fixture into a million pieces.


----------



## Rob in Puyallup

Lol. Good!  

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 2


----------



## somewhatshocked

And about reduced power consumption, no real radiant heat, less of a profile.


----------



## PlantedTankRookie

somewhatshocked said:


> Just ordered new Sera GH and Nitrate kits from Southern Oak Aquatics.
> 
> For those who constantly ask me what I use to test? It's Sera.


 
I'm not a fan of all the "vigorous shaking" required with the API nitrate test kit. Is the Sera nitrate kit any different?


----------



## PlantedTankRookie

somewhatshocked said:


> I'm just excited about being able to break another Coralife fixture into a million pieces.


 
Mercury vapor? Yummy.


----------



## somewhatshocked

No mercury vapors in the fixture itself. 

Shaking is required of all test kits. Calibration is also required to determine accuracy. But Sera are my preferred kits.


----------



## Rob in Puyallup

Yes, the LEDs do run much cooler. I have a Finnex Ray 2 that I'm no longer using... I may have to put up a for sale ad. They're a great light, very bright for the size. Only not with a dimmer. 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 2


----------



## PlantedTankRookie

somewhatshocked said:


> No mercury vapors in the fixture itself.
> 
> Shaking is required of all test kits. Calibration is also required to determine accuracy. But Sera are my preferred kits.


Sure, 5 seconds for nitrite, 5 seconds for pH, but 30 seconds and then 60 seconds for nitrate. That is a lot of shaking. Especially when my dogs think it is play time when I'm shaking.

Does the Sera nitrate kit require 90 seconds of vigorous shaking?


----------



## somewhatshocked

No shaking like that. But it's a complicated (and more accurate) kit. Three bottles of solution and a container of dry reagent.


----------



## PlantedTankRookie

somewhatshocked said:


> No shaking like that. But it's a complicated (and more accurate) kit. Three bottles of solution and a container of dry reagent.


Thank you. I'll check it out.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Breeder box is looking sweet:










And the PRLs in the newest 20L love to pick the moss all day long:










New LED fixture arrived a bit ago. Will update with photos later today.


----------



## somewhatshocked

My 24"-36" Current Satellite Freshwater LED+ arrived. Verdict: perfect. I'm going to order a 36" version for my 12gal long once I get tired of the current fixture above that tank.

Also, I may be blind after having played with the fixture for a while.

Full Spectrum is my favorite but 6500K White with added red looks pretty nice. 

I don't think the images will matter so much because I took them with my iPhone 4. Here they are anyway:

6500K BLUE:










6500K ORANGE:










6500K PURPLE:










6500K ROSE PINK:










6500K WHITE:










FULL SPECTRUM:










WHITE + RED: 










Old Coralife T5NO:


















Long story short, I want these fixtures for every tank I've got. I want one to replace the Fugeray on my 10gal. I want one for my 12gal. I want them for all of my 20Ls. I want them for my tiny cubes. I WANT THEM ALL!

P.S. The special effects of the fixture are neat but I feel like I'd only use them if the tank were in my living room.


----------



## somewhatshocked

In other news - only noticed these PRL babies because I was toying around with the new fixture:


































Guess I'm doing something right.

Have I mentioned how much I love that fixture? The colors, the intensity, the flexibility, the sleek look, the lack of radiant heat. Big win.


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## assasin6547

Will you sell me some of that moss? :icon_lol:


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## somewhatshocked

Can't do sales outside the For Sale section. Though, I never sell it.

If you keep an eye on the RAOK section, I give big chunks of moss away on a regular basis. Just gave away a huge handful yesterday.


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## londonloco

What setting do you have that Sat+ on? Just received mine in the mail for a 20glong, no ferts, no co2, want low light, right now I have mine on the preset purple, kinda dim, but I'm being cautious.


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## somewhatshocked

I'm using Full Spectrum.

If you're anxious about intensity, you can dim the fixture using the included remote control.


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## Rob in Puyallup

It seems to me that just because purple light seems dim to our eye it isn't necessarily dim to those of our critters or plants. 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 2


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## I<3<*))))><

That moss is AMAZING!!! :eek5:

Also love your shrimp, great looking CR's!


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## somewhatshocked

Time to add some Taiwan Bees to the latest 20L.

I've got a bunch of Wine Reds on-hand but don't really want to add more red to the tank. Also have a single Blue Bolt. Think I'm leaning toward BKKs because black would be nice. 

Thoughts? Input? Suggestions?


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## MABJ

I love black shrimp against green moss.


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## somewhatshocked

I think I'm leaning in that direction. 

Guess it's time to go see who wants to take all of my money for a few BKKs.


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## MABJ

Whatcha thinking? Normal grades or extremes? 

If you're doing extremes, you might just try blue diamonds


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## somewhatshocked

Normal grade for sure. I love the variety.

The Blue Diamond Neos Nick has are amazing. Thinking about converting a tank just for them.


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## MABJ

somewhatshocked said:


> Normal grade for sure. I love the variety.
> 
> The Blue Diamond Neos Nick has are amazing. Thinking about converting a tank just for them.


Yeah man. I need to snag more. They seem skittish in small groups. 

A little trickier than normal neos for sure.


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## somewhatshocked

BKKs arrived. Dripping in now.

Photos later.


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## somewhatshocked

While the TBs drip…

I'm in the process of changing up my Dwarf CPO tank (33gal long) and have to temporarily house them in smaller tanks. In doing so, I have to provide more hidey holes than I'm used to providing.

Solution: 1" PVC cut into 4" lengths, sanded, spray painted:










At first I cut them with a saw and everything looked perfect. Too perfect.

Then I started cutting them with a hacksaw, sanded the edges down a bit with a Dremel and they came out looking almost as cool as bamboo charcoal tubes.

$2 and a bit of elbow grease turned out nice. 

Gonna let them rest for a few days and then I'll glue on some moss and plop them into my tanks.


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## somewhatshocked

When they arrived:


















The "ugly" Crypts are now turning into quite beautiful little plants with new growth:










Five hours of dripping later:


































































































































Now I just need to remember to move them to their own tank when they reach breeding age.

And need to remember to break out the DSLR for some better shots.


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## mjbn

Nice Is spray paint safe for aquariums/shrimp?:O Nothing leeching? 

Nice BKK though, jealoousssss


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## somewhatshocked

Thanks.

Yep, spray paint is safe. I used a variety that's meant specifically for bonding to plastic. Once it's cured for a week, it'll be completely fine.


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## somewhatshocked

Om Nom Nom time for the PRLs and Taiwan Bees! Fed Complete Veggie tonight:


























































There are babies everywhere:










Food fight!


































































Rare to see them just give up and walk away.


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## mjbn

somewhatshocked said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Yep, spray paint is safe. I used a variety that's meant specifically for bonding to plastic. Once it's cured for a week, it'll be completely fine.


If you don't mind me asking, what brand spray paint is this? I'm planning on doing the same for my tanks:red_mouth 

Your tanks are really inspirational, to say the least:icon_eek: I'm hoping that I'll eventually be as nearly as successful as you are at keeping/breeding shrimp.


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## fish_22

After seeing this, now I want to start a shrimp tank!! That is really cool :red_mouth Do shrimp ship fairly well because I've been looking into ordering some, but I don't want to deal with dead shrimp and returning/exchanging them...


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## MABJ

fish_22 said:


> After seeing this, now I want to start a shrimp tank!! That is really cool :red_mouth Do shrimp ship fairly well because I've been looking into ordering some, but I don't want to deal with dead shrimp and returning/exchanging them...


Read up on shrimp before buying them. Also set your tank up way in advance. They ship fine when shipped right.


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## somewhatshocked

Krylon Fusion is what most people use. This paint was Rustoleum for plastics, I think. Only used it because I had it on-hand. If I had to go buy paint, it'd be Krylon.

Shrimping honestly isn't crazy difficult. Just have to have a feel for your parameters and have to trust your gut when it comes to doing the right thing. 

You do have to be dedicated, though. Have to offer the right foods and keep things stable. The less fancy supplements you add to a shrimp tank the better. Keep water temps stable, do regular water changes, keep your hands out of the water unless absolutely necessary, provide tons of moss and you're good to go.



mjbn said:


> If you don't mind me asking, what brand spray paint is this? I'm planning on doing the same for my tanks:red_mouth
> 
> Your tanks are really inspirational, to say the least:icon_eek: I'm hoping that I'll eventually be as nearly as successful as you are at keeping/breeding shrimp.


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## somewhatshocked

Ended up making a series of tubes for all the Crays:










(Wait, did I just make an internets joke?)

The first two stacks of tubes are 1" PVC. The rest are 3/4" - will probably use them in some shrimp tanks once they've served their purpose for the Crays.

Now, to glue on moss...


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## mjbn

Thanks for the info! Cool, I'll go to Wallyworld and pick a can up then Also, couldn't you also use super glue gel to keep the tubes stacked together? Not sure if it'll leave a white stain though


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## somewhatshocked

You certainly could. But black zip ties = fast.


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## somewhatshocked

Am breaking down my Dwarf CPO tank and while I wait on their new tank to cycle, I'm temporarily putting them into smaller tanks like this:










Plan to stuff even more moss into each tank but haven't had a chance to do so yet.

Just a male and female per tank. So far, I've set up four of them. The remaining CPOs are being given to a friend.

Since I didn't have another tank ready for them, here's what I used:


2.5gal tanks

Black Diamond

RedSea Nano filters - put some cycled Eheim substrate from their canister in the bottom and stuffed a sponge from one of their double sponge filters into the remaining area of the filter

I ran out of Shrimp Mineral GH/KH+ in the process of setting up the tanks and had to use Bee Shrimp Mineral GH+. Since there's no KH in the water to set pH, I put in about half a teaspoon of crushed coral in a mini filter bag beneath each sponge. Will remove the coral when I have more remineralizer.

Update: Since my tap water mysteriously has 3PPM (what the heck?!) Ammonia in it today, I realize I can no longer depend on it. RO/DI water it is. Just ordered more remineralizer from Alpha Pro Breeders.


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## johnson18

I just read the last 10 pages of this.... So much more to read in the first 18! 
How often do you add IALs?


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## somewhatshocked

Ha - has your brain melted after reading it all?

I toss Indian Almond Leaves into my tanks when the shrimp and snails have devoured the ones previous placed in their tanks. It's not so much for the tannins for me - but a nice thing to have in tanks so they have something to eat if I have to be out of town for a few days.


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## somewhatshocked

So, just for giggles, I decided to see how many adult PRLs I could find in the old tank (as in the 20L that has Akadama, not the new Aquasoil tank). I stopped netting at 85 because my fingers were cramping. And there were still more than 20 in the tank. Along with easily 100 babies.

The scary part? 26 of the adults I netted out were berried females. I was not amused.

Guess I won't be shutting that tank down any time soon.


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## jkan0228

Damn... What would you say is the key to your success?


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## somewhatshocked

Food. Consistent water changes/stability. Keeping things simple, no bizarre, over-priced additives. Keep my hands out of the tank as much as possible.


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## johnson18

somewhatshocked said:


> Food. Consistent water changes/stability. Keeping things simple, no bizarre, over-priced additives. Keep my hands out of the tank as much as possible.


+1!! I may not have kept some of the higher quality shrimp you have, I have to totally agree with your statemt!


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## somewhatshocked

The time has come for me to start another 20L. Shocking, right?

I'm open to suggestions but I definitely want it to be a shrimp-only tank.

Planning is half the fun.


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## somewhatshocked

Some of the bazillions of babies:










Murderizing a snail or two:


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## somewhatshocked

BKKs continue to grow:










Removed one of the moss mounds from the breeder box:










Gonna need to move this Crypt before it's complete covered up by Christmas Moss:










The AC70 I've got on the tank causes all this debris to settle at this one point in the tank:










The shrimp really enjoy digging through it.

Some day I'll get around to removing it. Maybe.


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## I<3<*))))><

Really love seeing pics & updates of your shrimpies! 

Sorry if this is a silly question. What are the benifits of breeding boxes? So you can selectively breed X female to X male? How does one set one up... how are they incorperated to the main tank? I still have to work on getting mine to get to adulthood before I think of anything like this, but never to early to start learning about it.

Very convenient all the debri goes to that one spot, must make cleaning a breeze. But yeah, ur guys seem to be going crazy over that spot, lol.

I have a dead spot like that in mine as well, I like it because I'm able to count them all. Since I'm just starting out & only have 15 PFR's atm it gives me peace of mind knowing all are still well.

Also is that a CPO in the pic in your previous post? Neat!
Those can be kept with shrimp & don't eat the shrimplets? Again just trying to figure out what all can live with them peacefully. I know fish-wise Oto's are the only 100% safe bet. But I like a variety of life in my tanks.. so was wondering. So far I'm finding most other inverts to be safe with them.


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## somewhatshocked

Breeder boxes can be set up a number of ways. There are several threads discussing the methods. I use an internal filter/pump to power mine. Feel free to look through this journal or several of my others for details.

They can be used for selective breeding, for isolation, et al.

The Dwarf CPO are in their own, separate tanks.


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## somewhatshocked

Complete Veggie feeding time!


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## Unikorn

This tank has come a long way  its been interesting keeping track of the progress along the way 

This tank was my inspiration and guide when I started my shrimp tank.. lots of sponge filters, thermometer, and moss are a must. Can't wait to see what the next tank will hold.


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## somewhatshocked

This is the third 20L in the thread.

Hoping to start the fourth sometime this week or next. Thinking it will be a bit higher tech. CO2, Downoi, tons of Crypts. Haven't settled just yet, though.


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## VJM

What about a brackish opae tank? It's my current obsession.


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## That70sfishboy

What's the light you have on the first 20?


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## somewhatshocked

VJM: I've got a couple Opae tanks.

That70sfishboy: Any tank in the thread will have its fixture listed. If it's the very first tank in the very first post? It's listed there.


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## That70sfishboy

heh..how I managed to miss that..haha thanks Jake!


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## somewhatshocked

Just spent a decent amount of time staring into the latest 20L and can't get over how much I enjoy the new LED fixture. Really wish they were available in a larger variety of sizes and intensities so I could go broke trying to buy more - ha.


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## PeterN1986

What are those acorn looking things at the bottom (3 of them)? What is their purpose?


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## somewhatshocked

These?










They're Alder Cones. Typically used in larger numbers for their tannins. I just keep them in shrimp tanks - along with Indian Almond Leaves - because shrimp feast on the bacteria that grow on them and eventually eat the cones themselves as they break down. Like to keep them in the front of my tanks so I can more easily observe the critters.


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## somewhatshocked

Babies, babies everywhere:










Guessing I'll never get to shut that tank down.


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## Stingray13

My eyes are burning!!! I just read this entire thread. I can say tho it was totally worth it. Your tanks are amazing and your shrimp fantastic. You really know what you are going and it shows.


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## somewhatshocked

Ha, thanks for that. Though, I think it reads more like someone who is fumbling along, despite years of experience, just randomly making things happen out of sheer luck.


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## Phil Edwards

Luck is just the intersection of preparation and opportunity. I've got a feeling you're well prepared when the opportunity arises.


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## somewhatshocked

Maybe some day these little bugs will stop breeding so I can more easily shut the tank down:










In one of the other 20Ls, the BKKs are doing well and growing up:


































Hope to eventually move some of the Taiwan Bees to my 12gal long once it's re-scaped in a few months.


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## somewhatshocked

Aaaaand... my Current Satellite Plus fixture is now controlled by this Arduino.

Really happy with it. Can't wait to buy more of these fixtures when funds permit.


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## somewhatshocked

Time for a bit of an update.

BKKs and PRLs are doing swell:










This is a daily scene:










Always love finding new Mischling babies:










Random Crypts are doing much better than expected:


















The tank isn't much to look at but I spend more time staring at it than any other.


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## jkan0228

How do you get your moss to grow so thick with no ferts or CO2?


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## somewhatshocked

If you can't grow moss, you're trying too hard. 

Needs cool temperatures, good flow, no special lighting, no ferts, no CO2. Fine and dandy regardless of the species or water conditions, I've found.


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## jkan0228

somewhatshocked said:


> If you can't grow moss, you're trying too hard.
> 
> Needs cool temperatures, good flow, no special lighting, no ferts, no CO2. Fine and dandy regardless of the species or water conditions, I've found.


I've always tried to grow moss without CO2 and ferts and just moderate lighting and it always turns really lose and lengthy growth patterns, not dense like how you have it. Are shorter photoperiods the key?


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## somewhatshocked

Nope - you're over-thinking it.

8 hours of low light. Nothing special.


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## somewhatshocked

Moved about 20 PRLs from my 45-F to the PRL tank.

Lots of work and updates.


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## somewhatshocked

Just thought I would tease something I've been working on for about two years:










It's a shrimp food that I doubt I'll ever be making in bulk because of the physical labor required. Not a fan of climbing trees at the ripe, old age of 31. 

But I've been seeing some crazy results and increased breeding among my CBS colonies that I've been testing it on throughout 2013. 

Also, if anyone wants to trade (human) bodies, that'd be appreciated. Not looking forward to climbing trees again any time soon.


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## assasin6547

somewhatshocked said:


> Nope - you're over-thinking it.
> 
> 8 hours of low light. Nothing special.


I'm trying to grow moss thick as well, but it isn't really working. Is a Fugeray on a 10 gallon low light?


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## somewhatshocked

It's low-medium. I have a 20" Fugeray on a 10gal and use a layer of fiberglass window screen to cut things down a bit.

That's the tank in my signature. A month or so ago, I pulled a few pounds of moss out of that tank after just 4-5 months of growth.


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## action20

For the shrimp, does it make a huge difference if you use small rocks instead of Fluval Shrimp Stratum?


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## somewhatshocked

Shrimp Stratum is a buffering substrate, so it's something typically used in tanks where you need to lower pH a bit or absorb some KH.

Inert substrates - like gravel - are fine for shrimp like Neos that don't need to live in conditions as acidic as Taiwan Bees.


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## SR52012

Do you still sell shrimps? If so i am wanting to start a 10gl tank just for shrimp...


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## somewhatshocked

Nope, I don't have shrimp for sale. Please note, though, that buying/selling isn't permitted outside the For Sale section of the forum. You'll want to take a look there. Tons of options and tons of different shrimp available there.


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## pink4miss

somewhatshocked said:


> Just thought I would tease something I've been working on for about two years:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's a shrimp food that I doubt I'll ever be making in bulk because of the physical labor required. Not a fan of climbing trees at the ripe, old age of 31.
> 
> But I've been seeing some crazy results and increased breeding among my CBS colonies that I've been testing it on throughout 2013.
> 
> Also, if anyone wants to trade (human) bodies, that'd be appreciated. Not looking forward to climbing trees again any time soon.


is this the mulberry walnut ?


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## somewhatshocked

pink4miss: Yep.

Back to the journal... Finally getting things settled post-move and the shrimp are thriving again! Can't wait to get another 20L started up.


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## tylergvolk

Nice Tank!


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## SR52012

So I just read this whole thing... and I was wondering about making my own shrimp tubes... what kind of glue did you use on to hold the moss on? I will deff be making some of these this week!


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## Pakman

wow... 31 pages of great shrimping info! Tanks and shrimp look great! 

out of curiosity... how much time do you think you spend on all your tanks? 10 hrs/week? more?


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## GreenBliss

SR52012 said:


> So I just read this whole thing... and I was wondering about making my own shrimp tubes... what kind of glue did you use on to hold the moss on? I will deff be making some of these this week!


Super Glue Gel. If you use it, make sure you don't use too much.


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## pmccrory

Do you think the 24"-36" Sat Plus would grow a nice DHG carpet from 12" to substrate on a 20L?


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