# Building CO2 regulator



## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

How do you plan to diffuse the co2?


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## Joshism (Nov 26, 2015)

Nlewis said:


> How do you plan to diffuse the co2?


I have a large Ista Max Mix CO2 reactor. I might run it externally through a sump in my 150 gallon tank.


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## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

I'm sorry I missed your posts! In my defense, it was over the holidays, so I might not have been paying much attention. For the record, I don't think I received any pm's from you.

That's a very nice regulator. I wouldn't have gone with VCR, as they're (as you now know) really expensive to source fittings for, but it works. Is there a reason you're focused on SS? They look very nice, of course, but there's no practical benefit to them.

In regards to the nipple being too long, you're going to need to tie/chain/bracket the CO2 tank regardless of regulator type, so that shouldn't be an issue.

Interesting that someone put a 30 psi gauge on there. I doublechecked the data sheet for it (from the model number in a pic in a previous post) and it does indeed put out 150 psi (as the handle helpfully says). It's possible, though very unlikely, that somebody tweaked the output pressure. More likely they just didn't plan on using more than 30 psi, and wanted to be as accurate as possible ...although I don't think that works very well. Either way, 30 is fine if you're using a reactor or standard, cheap diffuser. An Atomizer-style diffuser won't fly, and you'll need a different gauge.

A new Swagelok S-series will definitely be more precise than the 3-degree Hoke MilliMite valve you have. But you'll definitely need some sort of tube adapter(s) for the S-series, depending on the model you're getting. There are plenty of people, me included, that can walk you through any problems you have with fittings. Good luck!

Bump: Oh, and if you can swing it, definitely get the vernier handle for the Swagelok. It gives a great deal more control.


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## Joshism (Nov 26, 2015)

kevmo911 said:


> I'm sorry I missed your posts! In my defense, it was over the holidays, so I might not have been paying much attention. For the record, I don't think I received any pm's from you.
> 
> That's a very nice regulator. I wouldn't have gone with VCR, as they're (as you now know) really expensive to source fittings for, but it works. Is there a reason you're focused on SS? They look very nice, of course, but there's no practical benefit to them.
> 
> ...


Thanks for all the tips. My new Vernier handle for the Swagelok arrived yesterday. I drove to Swagelok in MN to get my fittings today. They didn't have the S series metering valve, so it's being shipped. The guys at the welding shops tell me it's way too overkill, and recommend a single stage regulator, but I've read enough on the forums to know better. 

I have a question. My Swagelok adapter: SS-4-VCR-7-4 has a male VCR and a female 1/4" NPT, and I was wondering if there's a 1/4" NPT to CGA-320 adapter. I don't want a long shaft. I'm looking for something as short as possible, and preferably SS. Something that looks like this: http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0327/9765/files/CGA320-adapter.jpg?510

I am wondering if the ebay or amazon paint ball CGA 320 adapters would be 1/4" NPT or not. 

Robot Check


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## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

You don't mention the reason for SS over, say, nickel- or chrome-plated, or even just unplated, brass. I assume you just decided you wanted stainless, because you like stainless. Which is fine.

You mentioned getting fittings. Did you get a couple SS-4-TA-1-2 tubing adapters (assuming you're getting a 1/4" tube fittings valve), or something along those lines?

No, paintball threads aren't NPT. That other link is interesting. I assume you can't get it, or it isn't 1/4" NPT? I don't know of any sources for really short nipples. 2" is the shortest I've seen, but then I don't think I've ever tried finding shorter ones.

To be honest, there's really not a huge benefit to a dual stage over a single stage, as long as that single stage is industrial grade. For example (it's often tough to find the information, but some manufacturers supply it, sometimes) a single stage Victor HPS270 has a <.5psi increase per 100psi inlet drop. So, at max, you'd have less than a 4 psi increase as the cylinder dropped to zero. Not a huge deal. The dual stage version, the HPT270, has an increase of <.1psi, or 80% lower increase. So there's a difference, it's just not massive.


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## AlanLe (Jan 10, 2013)

Here's the CGA320 VCR nipple. 



Nipple, SS, ¼" VCR Male, 1 ¾"Long, CGA-320/330

Nut, CGA 320, Stainless

VCR regulator works really well. Here's mine with the vcr nipple.


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## aja31 (May 25, 2013)

I've seen a few of these VCR regulator builds recently. They seem like a really expensive way to gain almost no benefit at all to me. Is there some benefit i'm missing? I use VCR in my lab almost exclusively since it has a much better vacuum performance over swagelok, allowing us to get our dosing tubes down to 10^-7 mbar instead of the 10^-5 we get with swaglok, keeping our dosers much purer, but I can't think of any benefit in the 5-30 psi range. Is it just an availability thing?


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## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

aja31 said:


> I've seen a few of these VCR regulator builds recently. They seem like a really expensive way to gain almost no benefit at all to me. Is there some benefit i'm missing? I use VCR in my lab almost exclusively since it has a much better vacuum performance over swagelok, allowing us to get our dosing tubes down to 10^-7 mbar instead of the 10^-5 we get with swaglok, keeping our dosers much purer, but I can't think of any benefit in the 5-30 psi range. Is it just an availability thing?


Not sure what you mean by VCR vs Swagelok. Do you mean the VCR face-seal fittings versus double-ferrule compression fittings? Both were originally designed by Swagelok (and trademarked), though both are currently manufactured by many companies, decades later.

As to the "why" part, the VCR fittings are supposed to be easier to remove and replace, and I've heard it forms a better seal. For our use, however, there's absolutely zero benefit to using VCR fittings, and they're they're just stupid expensive.

But as for why people do buy them, sometimes you'll see really high-end regulators (the kind that go for $1200-1500 new) for sale for a small fraction of that price, because nobody else wants to mess around with VCR fittings. So if you're in the market for the end-all, be-all of regulators, you can sometimes pick one up for a steal, so long as you're willing to shell out the cash for the adapters, and possibly gauges if the reg body comes naked. But, again, it's one of those things where it functions, for us, no better at all than a used $50 dual stage. Rather, it's all about the bling. Which is understandable.


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## Joshism (Nov 26, 2015)

AlanLe said:


> Here's the CGA320 VCR nipple.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm want to suck those VCR nipples so bad. $74.11... My wife is going to kill me... AlanLe, do you have any photos of them mounted on a CO2 tank?


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## AlanLe (Jan 10, 2013)

Joshism said:


> I'm want to suck those VCR nipples so bad. $74.11... My wife is going to kill me... AlanLe, do you have any photos of them mounted on a CO2 tank?





















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## pinking91 (Sep 28, 2010)

Sorry to hop on this thread but i figured it's related. I'm currently trying to build my own rig and was wondering if the Hoke 1315M4Y would be a good needle valve for $50 or am I better off spending my money elsewhere? I've done some research and the metering valve seems to be getting mixed reviews however considering the price i might just pick it up. shelling out $100+ for a metering valve to me is just ridiculous. 

Would this metering valve be comparable to a fabaco NV-55 or even the Ideal 52-1-11? I've heard great reviews about those. I don't need the valve to be super precise however also i dont want to be adjusting it constantly. Any advice will do thanks!

I also got a steal on the Pro Star 312 regulator so i figured i might as well go all SS and make it look nice.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

pinking91 said:


> Would this metering valve be comparable to a fabaco NV-55 or even the Ideal 52-1-11? I've heard great reviews about those. I don't need the valve to be super precise however also i dont want to be adjusting it constantly. Any advice will do thanks!
> 
> I also got a steal on the Pro Star 312 regulator so i figured i might as well go all SS and make it look nice.


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## Joshism (Nov 26, 2015)

AlanLe said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What a massive beast. Huge difference. Thanks AlanLe. $74.11 later, I'm happy. I was really thinking about getting rid of it, but I'll keep it forever.


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## Joshism (Nov 26, 2015)

Looks a lot nicer on my CO2 tank than that long one before. I'm wondering which metering valve I should go with.


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## AlanLe (Jan 10, 2013)

Joshism said:


> Looks a lot nicer on my CO2 tank. I'm wondering which metering valve I should go with.


Can't go wrong with the micromite hoke.


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

Joshism said:


> Looks a lot nicer on my CO2 tank than that long one before. I'm wondering which metering valve I should go with.


Hey, how is that Hoke by the way? It's one of their lowest flow valve, in the same group as the Parker HR, Brooks, Swagelok Double S etc.
Use the bigger handle Hoke, it has _godly_ stats. 

I know Kevmov has one, and now you're the 2nd (I think?), did you sweet talk the seller down? It was listed at a ridiculous price back then.


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## Joshism (Nov 26, 2015)

FlyingHellFish said:


> Hey, how is that Hoke by the way? It's one of their lowest flow valve, in the same group as the Parker HR, Brooks, Swagelok Double S etc.
> Use the bigger handle Hoke, it has _godly_ stats.
> 
> I know Kevmov has one, and now you're the 2nd (I think?), did you sweet talk the seller down? It was listed at a ridiculous price back then.


I haven’t put it on yet. What kind of fitting do I use to attach it? I think I need a different elbow, too. Is the Hoke 1600 series better than the Swagelok S series?


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Gyroloc to whatever..
And yes, and def. go w/ the Micromite..
number off the micromite will help btw:
1/8 gyrolock:1666G2YA
1/4 gyro..1666G4YA

need something like this in the correct sizes...










http://store.advanceops.ca/products/34976n


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## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

Yeah, the 1600 is much better than the S series. Swagelok doesn't make a series that compares to the Hoke 1600's, Brooks ELFs, or Parker HR series.

If the compression fitting is 1/8" (there's a "2" near the end of the model #, and the hole at the end of the nut is 1/8"), you'll use a tube adapter. SS-2-TA-1-2 goes to 1/8" male NPT. For 1/4" (there's a "4" near the end), it's SS-4-TA-1-2. If you wanted female NPT, switch the "1" to a "7".


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## Joshism (Nov 26, 2015)

*Micro Mite fitment*

I visited Swagelok a week ago, and the guy told me to get an SS-2-TA-1-2. The Hoke Micro Mite seems to fit perfectly, but slides. Plus my elbow is way too long. Seems like everything I get is way too long. I gotta make another 45 minute trip to Swagelok again. I ordered an S series, but I think I’ll return it.


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## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

If it slides, the ferrules aren't clamping down (are there even ferrules under the nut?). Tighten finger-tight, and then 3/4 turn further with a wrench. It's semi-permanent, as the ferrules permanently compress and won't come off the adapter. Attach the adapter to the valve first, then screw the entire thing into the elbow. If you need ferrules, it's SS-200-NFSET. That comes with a nut. I can't remember if you can use a Hoke nut with Swagelok ferrules. Most double-ferrule compression fittings are interchangeable, and the Hoke Gyrolok is similar, and uses the same threads, but the compression mechanics are slightly different. Anyway, the SS-200-NFSET comes with a Swagelok nut. For just the ferrules, it's SS-200-SET.

Bump: By the way, even though it's SS, that tiny 1/8" tube will definitely bend if you're not careful and crank down on the wrong part. Just be careful with it.


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## AlanLe (Jan 10, 2013)

You can use a 1/8 tube x 1/8 npt elbow with a 1/8 port connector. It will shorten the length down a little.









Something like this










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## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

AlanLe said:


> You can use a 1/8 tube x 1/8 npt elbow with a 1/8 port connector. It will shorten the length down a little.


Oh, neat! I didn't realize there was a fitting for that. I always assumed people just used a short section of tubing to do that.


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## Joshism (Nov 26, 2015)

Thanks AlanLe, I talked to the Swagelok guy, and he emailed me a port connector, SS-201-PC along with this elbow SS-200-2-2. I hope this shortens it a lot. How many regulators do you have? I’m starting to understand why you like building regulators. They’re so seductive.
https://www.swagelok.com/en/catalog/Product/Detail?part=SS-201-PC&item=
https://www.swagelok.com/en/catalog/Product/Detail?part=SS-200-2-2


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## Joshism (Nov 26, 2015)

jeffkrol said:


> Gyroloc to whatever..
> And yes, and def. go w/ the Micromite..
> number off the micromite will help btw:
> 1/8 gyrolock:1666G2YA
> ...


I have the Hoke 1666G2YA. On the Gyrolok, it says 70B30, or 70830. It looks like a 1/8 Gyrolok to me. Do you have a completed regulator example of what it would look like if I were to get this? I might actually prefer this over a port connector if it’s shorter in comparison. It just seems stronger. I’m afraid that if I accidently tip it over, the port connector would be damaged too easily. Wow, I just clicked on that link. $75 for that little thing? Are you kidding me? Wait, would I still need a port connector for this? I'm wondering if I could get one that just fits over the threading, so I don't have to use a port connector.


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## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

I looked it up because I was fascinated. This may be helpful:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nDvW1ZGIaM

(You still need to make sure there are ferrules underneath that nut on the inlet of the valve, and if there aren't, you should again check with your Swagelok guy and find out if you need only the ferrules or the nut as well. If there are no ferrules, and you *don't* need a Swagelok nut, you can just use the ferrules you'll remove from the new elbow. If there are no ferrules, and you *do* need a Swagelok nut, the item is SS-202-1.)


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## Joshism (Nov 26, 2015)

kevmo911 said:


> I looked it up because I was fascinated. This may be helpful:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nDvW1ZGIaM
> 
> (You still need to make sure there are ferrules underneath that nut on the inlet of the valve, and if there aren't, you should again check with your Swagelok guy and find out if you need only the ferrules or the nut as well. If there are no ferrules, and you *don't* need a Swagelok nut, you can just use the ferrules you'll remove from the new elbow. If there are no ferrules, and you *do* need a Swagelok nut, the item is SS-202-1.)


Very helpful video. It has the ferrules. Thanks Kevmo911. 1/8 seems so fragile though.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Joshism said:


> I have the Hoke 1666G2YA. On the Gyrolok, it says 70B30, or 70830. It looks like a 1/8 Gyrolok to me. Do you have a completed regulator example of what it would look like if I were to get this?


I was wrong about that one.. It still connects to a "tube".. so it wouldn't really shorten anything..

Male Connector: CM/ME, CM/MC On CIRCOR Instrumentation - Hoke, Inc.
you can see the drawing if you go to the pdf..

Even mine uses the standard tube plus adapter and yes it actually will bend..Mine has, but it is strong and sealed , just a bit "flexible"










pia actually.. 
http://www.hoke.com/tech_resources/...ion_Field_Guide_77100_HOKE_GYROLOK_072415.pdf

see pg 98 (97) depending on which numbering system 

You need a 2AM2[] male adapters, ferrule and a nut (which I think you have)..









IF you wonder why I "push" NPT.. well now you know..


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## Joshism (Nov 26, 2015)

So I guess I don’t have any option but to use a port connector. 1/8 will be easier to bend. It’s probably better to get the 1666G4YA than the 1666G2YA then huh? It looks like they have the same specs. $205 though...


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

HOKE - 1666G4YA - Series: 1600, Metering Valve, 316 stainless steel

Yes.....

Hoke 1600 1/8npt female straight valve. in brass. $146...............
http://www.centro-online.com/product/1654F2BA

About $50 below normal retail..


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## Joshism (Nov 26, 2015)

*Hoke 1666G2YA knob*

The Hoke 1666G2YA knob is a little beat up. Everything else looks mint condition. I tried looking for the knob online, but nobody sells it. I’d probably have to call Hoke. It’ll probably cost $100. Unless someone knows something.


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## Joshism (Nov 26, 2015)

jeffkrol said:


> HOKE - 1666G4YA - Series: 1600, Metering Valve, 316 stainless steel
> 
> Yes.....
> 
> ...


Yeah, but I’m going for stainless steel.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Plants don't care.. 
Anyways I figured that. It was more for others really...

Anyways they also have ss for around $200-ish..


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## Joshism (Nov 26, 2015)

*I finally have every fitting*

Drove to Swagelok again, and decided not to get the S series metering valve, and went with the Hoke instead. I have the new elbow, and the port connector, but it’s still almost just as long. I was searching for something like this http://www.pneumadyne.com/includes/work/image_cache/9f81dc4def0f5b55316e33301f7b3b2f.thumb.jpg
but I don’t think there’s anything available on earth that would fit into the Hoke Micromite metering valve.


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## Joshism (Nov 26, 2015)

*Will this elbow work?*

I can’t stand how long my elbow is. If I get this elbow and file it down, do you guys think it might work with my Hoke 1666G2YA 1/8 Gyrolok tube connections?



http://static.coleparmer.com/large_images/3120889.jpg

Barbed Fittings NPT Male Pipe Adapter Elbow 316 SS 1 8 NPT M x 1 8 Tubing ID from Cole-Parmer


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## Joshism (Nov 26, 2015)

*Relocating Burkert Solenoid*

I'm thinking about relocating my Burkert 6011 A solenoid in between the fittings and the bubble counter instead of behind the fittings to fill that ugly gap. I just found out that I can turn the solenoid plug around. The only problem is that the solenoid cable plug 2507 won't go over the top elbow. So I'm thinking about cutting and filing the threading on the elbow to make it fit. These elbows aren't that expensive. I'm also thinking about cutting the threading under the bubble counter as well because it's way too tall. Worst case scenario is that I'd have to buy a new elbow and tube fitting. I marked in red, the threads I'm thinking about cutting.


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## mike-guy (Feb 24, 2013)

I almost wish there was a part of this hobby that doesn't peak my interest cause now I want to build a fancy regulator. So just know I'm jealous and have zero input on any of this. Carry on gentlemen.


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## Joshism (Nov 26, 2015)

mike-guy said:


> I almost wish there was a part of this hobby that doesn't peak my interest cause now I want to build a fancy regulator. So just know I'm jealous and have zero input on any of this. Carry on gentlemen.


My solution for you comes in two words: Credit card. 

I can't afford any of this either, but I figured, if I'm going to do something, I might as well go all out. Once I get a nice aquarium with lush green plants, I’ll finally be able to relax. It’s therapy. I learned in sociology class that people with hobbies live longer than those who don’t have hobbies. You deserve it. It really helps that my wife is into it, too.


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## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

You could keep the Burkert mount where it is, in the direction it's facing in the most current pics, but turn the body sideways toward the regulator, and have the wire come out through the "armpit".


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## Joshism (Nov 26, 2015)

kevmo911 said:


> You could keep the Burkert mount where it is, in the direction it's facing in the most current pics, but turn the body sideways toward the regulator, and have the wire come out through the "armpit".


Yeah, I thought about that, but it looks cooler going over the shoulder. It's just a cheap elbow, so I thought I might as well give it a try. Fun stuff. My real friends are not interested in these kinds of discussions. They probably think I'm weird. That's why I have you guys.  This stuff gets addicting.


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## Joshism (Nov 26, 2015)

I felt the 1/8" Hoke Micro Mite 1666G2YA with the port connector was too small and fragile so I decided to order 1/4" instead. Sucks that my 1/4" 1666G4YA is backordered. I'd have to wait 5 weeks for it. Paid $205 for it. I just received my 1/4" Swagelok fittings to go with it. Swagelok charged me $14.00 for shipping for 3 little parts . I didn't think 1/4" would be as huge a difference from the 1/8." If the 1/8" was made out of Wolverine's adamantium, I might keep it. The elbow looks pretty buff too. Looks like it's been lifting weights.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

> I marked in red, the threads I'm thinking about cutting.


Threads are tapered so unless you cut and re-tap you won't gain anything.. They will land thread to thread in the same place..


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## Joshism (Nov 26, 2015)

jeffkrol said:


> Threads are tapered so unless you cut and re-tap you won't gain anything.. They will land thread to thread in the same place..


Very useful information, even though it brought a cloud of depression over me  Now I’ll have to go spend more money on a 1/8 NPT die so I can live on.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Joshism said:


> Very useful information, even though it brought a cloud of depression over me  Now I’ll have to go spend more money on a 1/8 NPT die so I can live on.


LOL....












https://youtu.be/XF4ggYqdB0k


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## Joshism (Nov 26, 2015)

jeffkrol said:


> LOL....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good story. That video is very educational. Not sure if I want to cut and die anymore. Oh well, who cares. The elbow's not that expensive. I’ll be the guinea pig.


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## Joshism (Nov 26, 2015)

I looked up tap & die stainless steel, and the 1/8” NPT die I found was $66.00.  Stainless Steel ain’t no joke. I’ll have to do more shopping to see if there’s anything else that will die stainless steel for a reasonable price.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Joshism said:


> I looked up tap & die stainless steel, and the 1/8” NPT die I found was $66.00.  Stainless Steel ain’t no joke. I’ll have to do more shopping to see if there’s anything else that will die stainless steel for a reasonable price.


some full service hardware stores thread pipe..


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## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

I think I have a few VCR 320 nipples laying around... I could part with one. I don't have a 320 nut though. 

For port connectors... I just bought a length of stainless tubing that I cut to size. 

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