# Johnson 18's Tank Rack! Several Species!



## mbkemp (Dec 15, 2016)

I don't know a think about these guys other than their beauty. Following along to learn. Having said that I think your concepts sound good!!


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## nel (Jan 23, 2016)

If you want to breed them, I would suggest getting 5 gallon tanks for your pairs/trios and 20 gallon tanks as grown-outs for fry. If you have space and money for 10 gallon tanks and 20 gallon for fry, than go for it obviously! Great to see somebody getting into killis. I have so many fish tank plans now, that I can only keep blue gularis (they can live with my ropes), but maybe someday I would built a rack just for killis. Subscribing, I'll try to learn from your mistakes before I'll make mine :>


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## Viridis (May 11, 2016)

Congrats on the new additions! Hope they do well for you.



johnson18 said:


> often stuffed full of sphagnum moss or peat, along with no substrate and lights.


Wouldn't that make the Sphagnum moss or peat the substrate?


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Viridis said:


> Congrats on the new additions! Hope they do well for you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks! I suppose the peat would, yes. Not in the way we use our substrates though where we could plant things in it.. 
The sphagnum is stuffed into the tank such as you would do with leaf litter or a breeder tank just stuffed full of moss. 

For the substrate spawners, peat is often stuck into a container which is then placed onto the bare tank bottom. The fish will then spawn in it by either running across the top of it or burrowing down into the peat a few inches & spawning there. At that point you can remove the container, drain the water from the peat & store the mostly dry peat in a ziplock bag until the eggs are ready to hatch, which varies by species, at which point you can wet the peat & the fish hatch usually within a couple hours! 


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

I just bought four 10 gallon tanks at petco. They've got the $1 per gallon sale going but only for 10,20 & 29. 50% off the 55 & 75... I was going to get 5gallon tanks but for 14.99 ea, I passed. 


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## someoldguy (Feb 26, 2014)

Just a couple of thoughts ..... 
Until you get the hang of working with killies , I'd avoid dirting the substrate . Cinnamomeum have been known to gravel spawn . Getting eggs out of gravel that's got a dirt underlayment could very well lead to more mess than you need . As regards planting , give some thought to java fern , bolbitis , and anubias . Low light stuff you can superglue to stones and pull out of the tank in the event you need to in order to net out any fry that appear in the tank . If you're going to use ferts. , go light . I do low light E.I. dosing every other week or so . Usually I'll use a bare 5 for breeding and load it up with a couple of mops , but just hanging a mop or 2 in the maintenance tank will work out fine , most of the time .

A crap pic of one of my maintenance tanks :


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## EmeraldAlkaline (Feb 24, 2017)

Lovely tank and killies! Is it true they need to be in schools are are they ok on there own or just with a few? Im interested in some clown killies for my 20 gallon as a top dwelling fish, but according to AqAdvisor they recommend schools of them?


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Thanks for that information @someoldguy! I appreciate it! I had kinda decided against a capped dirt substrate, in favor of an inert substrate where having to move things around doesn't create any issues. You've just help confirm this for me! 
I'd seen A. cinnamomeum listed as a plant spawned some places and substrate spawners in others, I wasn't sure, so this is good to know. 

I've got a bunch of Anubias, Java Fern, and moss. I will definitely make use of it. I also have an emersed 55 that is absolutely packed full of Hydrocotyle sp. 'Japan' which I plan to use as a floater. I don't plan on dosing fertz but I may put in a couple root tabs where needed. I guess I'll keep an eye out for cheap 5 gallon tanks for breeders if needed. 


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## finn (Apr 2, 2017)

*killifish*

In my experience whether this will work depends on what other species you are mixing them with. Killi fry tend to be slow movers, I finally gave up trying to raise them in my community tank and don't introduce them there until they are about one inch.


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

finn said:


> In my experience whether this will work depends on what other species you are mixing them with. Killi fry tend to be slow movers, I finally gave up trying to raise them in my community tank and don't introduce them there until they are about one inch.




These will be separated into 10 gallon species only tanks. I thought about leaving the A. Australe in my 20L Apisto tank. Then I picked up 13 Nannostomus marginatus & I figured the chances of survival would be slim to none! 

The first killi tank is filling right now. I probably put too many Crypts into the tank, but oh well. Although this tank may initial house the two pairs of A. cinnamomeum, to get them the hell outta my shrimp tank asap, once the second tank is up and running I might switch them around. I pulled one of the sponge filters from my 20L for this tank and swapped it for a new one. I figured that seeding the tank with a sponge filter that already has loads of beneficial bacteria would help it cycle quicker. I also tossed in the sponge filter that will be used on the second killi tank in to cycle too! 

This first tank has the smaller Seachem Flourite substrate. I still have about half a bag, I may or may not use it in the second tank. 

The second tank won't be getting set up today. Probably gonna be some time this week for next weekend. I will be heading to a local club meeting next weekend & I'm hoping to pick up a second trio of the A. australe! I will be getting a daphnia culture for sure. 

I pretty much can't start any other tanks until I finish my shelving units! I just need to sand and paint them. Shouldn't be too bad. 


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Tank #1 has been running for the last day now. I haven't done any sort of tests or anything to start a cycle such as adding ammonia. As I mentioned yesterday, I did place one of the sponges from my 20L into this tank. 

I tossed a bunch of random plants in this tank. I hacked a ton of Hydrocotyle tripartita 'Japan' out of my 55g emersed tank that is covered in several inches worth, along with about a random dozen stems. From my 55g shrimp tank I grabbed a bunch of wisteria, a small bunch of narrow leaf Java Fern, a couple Anubias nana & nana petite, and a bunch of peacock moss. I tied the peacock moss on some wood that I already had. While I was at Petsmart, I grabbed two good looking packages of Cryptocoryne wendtii 'Tropica', one of Cryptocoryne undulata 'red' & two echinodorus parviflorus. At this point I'm sure there's way too much [censored][censored][censored][censored] planted in here, but I'll thin it out post cycle. Once it's cycled I'll probably switch some of the plants for things that will work better for Killifish breeding and specifically for the fish I've got. 

The wood had not been soaking so of course it immediately began floating. I had a decent little scape going, but with the wood not being buried in the substrate so it could be removed easily when needed. Right now it's got a bunch of stones holding it down. In the long run I am not super worried about the scape. I did want some wood in the tank to help put the fish at ease. 

I'm trying to set up this particular tank as more of a long term tank for plant spawners versus just a spawning tank with only a mop or moss. Once my shelving is finished, I will start looking into setting up smaller breeding specific tanks, as well as a couple tanks for raising fry. From what I've seen, I think there will be needed a couple sizes of fry tanks. 

Ok. Pics....these are just dumped in no particular order. I will try to come back through and make comments on each pic.


































































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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

looks dank


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

EmeraldAlkaline said:


> Lovely tank and killies! Is it true they need to be in schools are are they ok on there own or just with a few? Im interested in some clown killies for my 20 gallon as a top dwelling fish, but according to AqAdvisor they recommend schools of them?


I'm planning on keeping them in pairs or trios. Although for some I am planning on getting a couple trios of the same type to keep in a little bit larger tank. One of the species I already have I have two pairs of them, which I am planning on housing together in a 10 gallon tank. Most killies have specific collection points and it is highly recommended not to interbreed them between locations, even with the same species. The majority don't even have common names, but are known by their scientific along with collection data. This can be seen with the ones I've got too, such as the two pairs of Aphyosemion cinnamomeum Kurume APL 13-35. There are several other locations where these have been collected & they should not be mixed. Most species will readily interbreed, though some may produce sterile offspring. For this reason it is also advisable that no more than one species of Killifish be kept in the same tank. If you're interested in knowing more the American Killifish Association has a comprehensive website. I've found it quite useful myself, as I knew next to nothing about Killifish until a couple weeks ago.. I posted a link in the post above this one. 

As far as schooling is concerned. I honestly don't know how well they school. My A. australe male has been actively schooling(or perhaps shoaling) with the 13 Dwarf Pencilfish that they are currently begin housed with. The females have been schooling with the Pencilfish, but to a much lesser extent.


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## someoldguy (Feb 26, 2014)

johnson18 said:


> Tank #1 has been running for the last day now. I haven't done any sort of tests or anything to start a cycle such as adding ammonia. As I mentioned yesterday, I did place one of the sponges from my 20L into this tank.
> 
> I tossed a bunch of random plants in this tank. I hacked a ton of Hydrocotyle tripartita 'Japan' out of my 55g emersed tank that is covered in several inches worth, along with about a random dozen stems. From my 55g shrimp tank I grabbed a bunch of wisteria, a small bunch of narrow leaf Java Fern, a couple Anubias nana & nana petite, and a bunch of peacock moss. I tied the peacock moss on some wood that I already had. While I was at Petsmart, I grabbed two good looking packages of Cryptocoryne wendtii 'Tropica', one of Cryptocoryne undulata 'red' & two echinodorus parviflorus. At this point I'm sure there's way too much [censored][censored][censored][censored] planted in here, but I'll thin it out post cycle. Once it's cycled I'll probably switch some of the plants for things that will work better for Killifish breeding and specifically for the fish I've got.
> 
> ...


Looks like it'll be a pretty good maintenance tank . I'm guessing for the cinnamomeum ? Anyway , once you have the fish in there , and settled for a few weeks , start checking the floaters for fry . You never know and might get lucky .
Might want to get a micro worm culture going before you start any kind of organized breeding . 
As I guess you know by now , there's hundreds of species of killies . Don't try to 'collect the whole set' .....
things will get out of hand real fast and you'll burn out . Just play around with 1 or 2 or 3 species .


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

someoldguy said:


> Looks like it'll be a pretty good maintenance tank . I'm guessing for the cinnamomeum ? Anyway , once you have the fish in there , and settled for a few weeks , start checking the floaters for fry . You never know and might get lucky .
> 
> Might want to get a micro worm culture going before you start any kind of organized breeding .
> 
> ...



I'm not sure which species will go into this tank yet. I'm hoping to get my second tank up as soon as possible. You're correct, these will be a maintenance tanks. I'm also planning on setting up fry tanks. I'm still doing research on how to best go about breeding and tank set ups for that. I just wanted to get a couple heavily planted tanks together to start with so that the fish are out of the shrimp & community tanks and into species specific tanks. 

I'm getting a starter for a daphnia culture from a local hobbyist this weekend. I will see what other live food cultures I can get locally. You're absolutely correct, I need to have those ready to go before I get serious about trying to breed these guys! 

While I'm having fun learning/reading about all the different killies & the various methods of breeding them, I have no plans at this point to expand beyond these two species. Two species is plenty to get me started, if not one too many! [emoji23] If I reach the point where I am successfully breeding and raising these species, I will consider if I've got time or desire to expand to different species. 

Thanks for your continued input on this thread. Having someone with Killifish experience provide advice and opinions is extremely helpful! 



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## jrill (Nov 20, 2013)

someoldguy said:


> Looks like it'll be a pretty good maintenance tank . I'm guessing for the cinnamomeum ? Anyway , once you have the fish in there , and settled for a few weeks , start checking the floaters for fry . You never know and might get lucky .
> Might want to get a micro worm culture going before you start any kind of organized breeding .
> As I guess you know by now , there's hundreds of species of killies . Don't try to 'collect the whole set' .....
> things will get out of hand real fast and you'll burn out . Just play around with 1 or 2 or 3 species .


Great advice. When I was going strong I had 25, 5 gal. tanks going with a different killie in each. It can get overwhelming real fast.

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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

jrill said:


> Great advice. When I was going strong I had 25, 5 gal. tanks going with a different killie in each. It can get overwhelming real fast.
> 
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


I definitely do not have time for that! No space for more than a couple either! I can't even imagine do the maintenance on that many tanks! Thanks for the words of wisdom!


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's Killifish Tanks*

Somehow starting a conversation with the lady in charge of the fish area at Petco ended with me getting 3 x 5.5gallon tanks for $5.50each.[emoji848][emoji848] This breeding project just got its smaller tanks! [emoji2][emoji2]


Edit: I also picked up a bunch of Java Fern and random Anubias sp. which I stuffed into the 10 gallon, tank #1. Like I said, a bunch of the plants in here probably won't stay. Some will go into the other 10g. 

With new plants:




































Part of the driftwood has sprouted the nasty slime that is often seen on new drift wood. I snatched up some snails from my other tanks and dropped them directly onto the wood! Haha [emoji57] Hopefully they can take care of it before too long! Hell, one of them cleared the area of a dime on its own! [emoji50]

It's not actually those colors, that's the leds.









Now that I've got the three 5 gallon tanks things change a bit as I didn't expect to have those. I'm not sure how that will effect this at the moment. The two 10 gallons of the original plan, will stay for sure. 

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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson18's Killifish Tanks*

I went to the monthly meeting of the Desert Aquarist Society for my first time, which I also joined. It was fun, the guy who bred the A. australe that I have was there. I talked to him about picking up several more. We discussed my idea for a heavily planted tank for them with a few males and a large group of females. He agreed it sounded like a good plan. I was given a second male from the same batch of fry as mine, a guy had bought a group & they all jumped out of his tank but this one. 

At the auction I picked up a good size portion of Najas guadalupensis, or Guppy Grass, as well as a bag of mixed floaters and some nice needle leaf Java fern. This tank is seriously stuffed with plants! I need to get at least on more up and running asap. 

Also added a bunch of Hydrocotyle tripartita from my 55, along with at least 20 dwarf sag. of varying size. While working in that tank the A. cinnamomeum were looking great! Pictures just don't do them justice! 


















A couple softball size portions of Peacock moss arrived today. They weren't in the best condition, which I knew to begin with. I tossed them into my 55 so they've got the added bonus of the CO2 injection, which will do them wonders within a couple weeks! Not like I've got room for them in here right now anyways!! [emoji23]

I picked up four nerites: 2 horned, 2 zebra and a spotted. I tossed them in hoping they would make quick work of the small bit of algae on one Anubias I picked up last week and the driftwood fuzz/slime. I don't plan on keeping all four in this tank but will spread them out or move where needed. I guess that's the advantage of having a bunch of tanks. 










Front(short end):









Left side


















Right side:



















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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

Nice photos  , love the wildness of your tanks


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

BettaBettas said:


> Nice photos  , love the wildness of your tanks




Thanks Nate! These fish are super had to photograph! Not only are they fast little buggers, but their colors are incredibly difficult to capture. The majority of the color on the A. cinnamomeum comes from this iridescent sheen on its scales. I think to get the best pic you'd almost need a mostly dark tank and hella strong flashlight, plus a lot of luck to get the right angle!! The females have even less color normally! I've seen some good coloration during spawning activities though. 

Females:


















The A. australe Cap Estérias BSWG 97/24 are far easier as much of their color is already there. The females are a bit more difficult, but as they get older they continue to get way more orange. The females do have some iridescent blue spots but neither the males or females compare to the cinnamomeum. 






























As far as this tank's current layout, I set up a bit of a scape and then have just been piling everything in on top of it. The plants in this tank will eventually be split into two tanks, another 10gallon tank. Along with some plants that I've thrown into my 55 to kinda kickstart/speed up their growth, plus a couple softball size clumps of Peacock moss that I also threw into the 55. Especially with the moss, I'm just trying to get the most growth out of those plants as possible before they're transferred to the low tech systems. Honestly, I'd like the two 10g tanks to eventually end up this packed with growth as it will make the group of fish work better. 

I still need to make some breeding mops, both for top and bottom spawning. I've ready several different how-to guides, it seems pretty simple. You basically just wrap a synthetic yarn around an object(book, movie, piece of cardboard, etc.) tie one end & then connect to a floating cork(for top mop,) or leave as is/or weight yarn(for bottom mop.) 


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

I did a water test this evening, the first one since I started up the 10. Not really what I was hoping for...

Killi tank 1
pH 7.4ish
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate <5.0ppm
GH >20
KH 4
Phosphate 0.5
TDS 615

I don't have a chance to do a WC tonight but I'll do one tomorrow afternoon. Hopefully the wood is waterlogged & I can take the stone out. That should help drop the TDS and GH. I've been thinking about picking up some peat & aging my RO in it for a week before WCs to try and drop the pH some-this might help my 20L too. I'll add a couple IALs tomorrow after the WC. I'd like this tank to have a lower pH and fairly soft water. I could always mix in some Aquasoil Amazonia but I'd really prefer not to. 


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

The 10 was fully cycled(a couple weeks ago) I finally put some fish in it today, but not the ones I was planning on!! At the Desert Aquarist Society meeting today I picked up a trio(m/f/f) of Aphyosemion sp. "COFE 2010-23" which a gorgeous little non-annual Killifish. The male is already showing some amazing colors! I haven't yet taken any pictures of them but here is a good representation of what a breeding male looks like. 










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## SteppingStones (Aug 8, 2014)

Great find! I have a pair of Aphyosemion sp. "COFE 2010-22", which are a pretty hard to find. They're super shy right now, but they're starting to color up. Keep the updates coming!


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

I once was going to breed Aphyosemion australe. Breeder told me that the fry will starve in a tank, for they can't get to the top. He puts cotton mops in the tank and then puts the mops in a food container with moss. Perhaps since you have plants at the top the fry will live in there.


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Hilde said:


> I once was going to breed Aphyosemion australe. Breeder told me that the fry will starve in a tank, for they can't get to the top. He puts cotton mops in the tank and then puts the mops in a food container with moss. Perhaps since you have plants at the top the fry will live in there.




I've talked to a few long time killifish people and done a lot of reading only on the AKA website and pages linked from their site. 

Some people say a heavily plant tank will be ok but they encourage feeding a variety of live food & keeping it a species tank. Many with planted tanks suggest that the build up on detritus and such on the bottom of the tank will help promote some smaller live foods within the tank such as infusoria that fry will be able to feed on. This is the preferred method in Europe. It seems that in the US this is a little practiced method. 

Here it is common practice is to put the adult pair together in a breeding specific tank with spawning mops for a short period of time, like a week or so & then separate the sexes. The eggs should be collected and stored in the preferred method(water or peat incubation storage) and period of time based on particular species. After the correct amount of time has passed the eggs are then submersed in a hatching container, often a plastic shoe box. At this point you either offer them appropriately sized live food immediately, or move them to a larger fry rearing tank with the same water & then feed them. 

Either way the fry end up in their own grow out tank, often a 20g which is way larger than the adults will ever see. Moving the fry into their own tank allows you to offer them specific food directly without worrying about the adults or the fry not finding their own food. The fry can then grow in this same tank, depending on species as some as are more than eager to eat there siblings from a young age. Separate hatchings are not to be mixed in even if they're just a few weeks apart.

Obviously, both methods have there pros and cons. The heavily planted tank method used in Europe produces far fewer offspring, but those it does produce are often far healthier and robust. The method used in the US produces much higher numbers of offspring, but they are often much weaker fish. Either way the fish should be culled to keep a high quality line of fish. 


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

SteppingStones said:


> Great find! I have a pair of Aphyosemion sp. "COFE 2010-22", which are a pretty hard to find. They're super shy right now, but they're starting to color up. Keep the updates coming!




That's awesome! I was just looking at all of the different fish collected on that trip! I'd love to see your fish & hear more about your set up, especially if you're actively breeding them!


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

johnson18 said:


> Some people say a heavily plant tank will be ok but they encourage feeding a variety of live food & keeping it a species tank. Many with planted tanks suggest that the build up on detritus and such on the bottom of the tank will help promote some smaller live foods within the tank such as infusoria that fry will be able to feed on. This is the preferred method in Europe..


Interesting read. I like this method best. This is what I have noticed my swordtail fry are eating on. To insure the smallest of fry get food I have been putting bits of the pyramid feeding blocks in moss in the tank.

So first you are going to wait till tank is full of plants?


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

Excellent research. I look forward to seeing how this works out for you. A rack of moss aquascapes for killifish colonies is one of my hobby bucket list items.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

johnson18 said:


> Either way the fish should be culled to keep a high quality line of fish.


I don't feel right about culling fish. For the bible says we are to take care of the animals. Thus I have 3 sets of approx 10 fry of swordtails in a 20g high tank. The male is now in his own tank.


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## JJBTEXAS (Jul 8, 2013)

Hilde said:


> I don't feel right about culling fish. For the bible says we are to take care of the animals. Thus I have 3 sets of approx 10 fry of swordtails in a 20g high tank. The male is now in his own tank.


They don't have to be killed, just separated from the breeding line. Most people feed their culls to bigger fish or turtles because they don't want to spend time caring for these fish, but you don't have to. If you don't cull, you can end up with a lot of genetic issues (aka unhealthy fish).


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

JJBTEXAS said:


> They don't have to be killed, just separated from the breeding line. Most people feed their culls to bigger fish or turtles because they don't want to spend time caring for these fish, but you don't have to. If you don't cull, you can end up with a lot of genetic issues (aka unhealthy fish).


Now I understand. It may seem illogical that killing them disturbs me but feeding them to other animals doesn't bother me. For it is what happens in nature. Perhaps I will get a turtle.


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Agreed, you don't have to kill something just because you are culling from your breeding group. You often see groups of males for sale, they'd go great in a community tank. While I don't plan on doing so, I've got not issues with euthanizing culls. Some folks don't have the resources to keep them or anyone to give them to who won't decide they should go back into a breeding group. It's one thing to sell shrimp culls for a man made(artificial selection) cherry shrimp, but most killis are variants that are only found in one specific location. Many are no longer found in the wild due to development in the area they come from. So it becomes a matter of keeping the strain healthy and looking like the original fish. It's often not about selection to coolest looking fish, or the fish that has a neat pattern that differs from the original, the goal is to breed the fish that are the best representation of the fish originally collected from that specific location.


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Hilde said:


> Interesting read. I like this method best.
> 
> 
> 
> So first you are going to wait till tank is full of plants?



Thanks! I will be doing a bit of both methods. Since I am new to the killifish hobby I'm just trying to learn all I can and gain as much experience as I can! 

Um, this 10 gallon tank is seriously packed full of plants! There are areas that no light reaches the bottom of the tank while directly under the 18" BML that is sitting on the glass lid! I actually plan on splitting the current plant mass into another 10 and some of a 5! 

These were exactly one month ago. Everything has been growing great & I've added quite a few more plants to it! Probably at least a dozen more Java ferns-mostly needle leaf, trident & windlov. Several Crypts, some random stems that needed a home, a bunch of different floaters, more dwarf sag & another huge bunch of Hydrocotyle sp. 'Japan'....



















In my 55 I've got two softball & one tennis ball size clumps of Peacock Moss I plan to put in one of my of the upcoming killifish tanks. I've been hoarding and growing it out for at least a month now for the larger clumps and probably almost 6mo on the other. 

The moss collection is visible in this pic, there's a bunch of A. barteri var. coffeefolia somewhere under there! 










I've been stashing all the plants I can over the last month & a half! Not to mention the sponge filters, air splitter valves & tanks. I fully plan on having some quality tanks for this breeding project. 


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

johnson18 said:


> Agreed, you don't have to kill something just because you are culling from your breeding group. You often see groups of males for sale, they'd go great in a community tank.


Well fortunately I only have 2 fertile male swordtails. The other males Gonopodium's are not functional for they are long and crooked. I can't put them in my planted tank for they eat my plants so they are in a 10g tank with plastic grass. Thus have 3 tanks. I don't like to have more than 2 tank so I will probably sell the fertile males.


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Hilde said:


> Thus have 3 tanks. I don't like to have more than 2 tank .



Wow. I wish I could maintain that! I've currently got a set of 55, 20L and 10 planted and running full of water, along with the same three sizes running as emersed tanks! I'm about to set up a few more tanks for killis breeding, a 40breeder blackwater and hopefully my new Mr. Aqua 60p that's been sitting around for like 6 months. I'm also planning to swap out the emersed 55 and 10 for a 40b and maybe another 20L. Besides the 6 tanks currently in use I think I've got I 25 tanks not in use at the moment. Hahaha. The number in use at any one time seems to wax and wane, as I get busy with other things or relocate to a different house, and such. 



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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

johnson18 said:


> Wow. I wish I could maintain that!


Well when I have more than 2 tanks I sometimes forget to feed the fish in the 3rd tank. My chronic sinus problems make me forgetful.


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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

Johnson im not going to spam you with likes so instead ill just tell you it looks good:
Tanks look amazing and the fish look to be thriving as usual for ya
Nate


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Well, alright, soooo much has changed since my last post!! My racks are built & currently have five tanks set up on them! 

A couple of the tanks are my old emersed 20L & 55g, these two will be broken down & the plants restarted into one tank. I still haven't decided what size tank I want to use for this, although the odds are good it'll be the 20 long. My main issue with the 20L is my lighting options. I've got a T5HO that is the correct size but the bulb choices for 30" lamps totally suck! 

The third tank on my racks is my 40 breeder emersed Cryptocoryne tank. This tank has it's own journal here.

The next tank is a 5.5g tank with a small group of Gertrude's Spotted Blue Eye Rainbowfish, Pseudomugil gertrudae. I believe there are 8 of them in total, 3 males & 5 females. In order to get the water to the correct parameters, the bare bottom tank has been slowly filled with IAL leaf litter which has basically turned it into a bit of a blackwater tank. There are a couple decent size Anubias, a large bunch of Hygro difformis & a couple inches worth of Salvinia minima, duckweed & another random floater on the surface. The tank is lit by an 18" BuildMyLED Dutch lamp. I've also got a few stems of Plectranthus verticillatus (Swedish Ivy/ Swedish Begonia), as well as Philodendron cordatum. The rainbows breed on a daily basis, while I haven't seen any juvenile fish, it's most certainly just a matter of time. There are definitely enough plants and leaves for any young to hide in. I don't expect offspring to show up in large numbers but I don't see why they won't grow over time. 









































































The last tank on my rack is the 10 gallon tank that the majority of this thread has covered. Although there have been a few changes to the stocking of this tank since my last post. 

Left side









Front









Left side









Right side









The original trio of Aphyosemion sp. 'cofe 2010-23' killifish have done well. There are at least two juveniles that are pushing 0.75". One is most definitely a male, the other looks to be a female. I don't spend a ton of time staring at the tank so it is highly likely there are more juveniles I have yet to find. 

The females


















Male



























Juvenile




































Over the last three or so months I have added close to 50 red cherry shrimp to the tank. The majority of which have been Sakura grade, though some are most definitely not. The first batch of shrimp had 3 or 4 nice looking females who quickly became berried. At this point they have given birth & many of the newer females are now berried. I've been pleased to see that none of the fish have shown any interest in the shrimp, even the baby shrimp! I'm sure it is possible that some of the newborn shrimp become snacks. The RCS colony is quickly becoming established which is exactly what I have been hoping for! 
































































The most exciting change to this 10g is the recent addition of a pair of young Apistogramma urteagai! I purchased these at the auction at our local club meeting, the Desert Aquarist Society. These Apistos may not stay in this tank in the long term but I figured it was a good place for these little fish to start. At the time of purchase, they were less than 0.75" but greater than 0.5" in length! They're an absolutely beautiful little Apistogramma species! Nothing like many of the line bred species such as the double & triple reds/oranges but I find many of the wild type species stunning! These fish might end up in the upcoming 40 gallon black water, although if that's the case I will probably see if I can acquire at least one more pair. 

Google image 









In the bag



























Pair in the gap just right of the sponge 





































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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Very cool!! I love Apisto's. I'm trying to find females for the Caucatoides males in my 75 gallon. They are gold and I believe double reds..


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Um. I did a thing.....Most of it doesn't effect these tanks at the moment, but it will add to the rack in the future. By future, I kinda mean that I'll be setting up a couple more small tanks tomorrow.....

I made some changes to the stocking of my 55. This means that tomorrow I will be setting up a tank, probably a 10g for all to the Aphyosemion cinnamonuim killies that are currently in my 55. I'll post the actual changes to the 55 in that journal!!

The second tank I will be setting up, which I haven't decided if I should go 5.5 or 10, is for some fish that I added into the existing 10g this evening. I will probably go with a 10g though! So I picked up two pairs of Dwarf Blue Panda guppies!! They are absolutely gorgeous little fish!! I've never been a huge fan of guppies but I've got a friend who picked up a pair of a different variety of fairly rare dwarf guppies about two months ago & has continued to show me pics of these stunning little fish. This got me to thinking about guppies. So when I mentioned it to my LFS owner(who also hooked up my buddy), he pulled these from a tank hidden in his back room & I just had to take them home! Looking around online it seems like a lot of these fish are mostly black but these are almost all blue. I didn't get a good pick, just snapped a pic with my flash right after I got them into the tank. 

Internet picture of a male









My [censored][censored][censored][censored]ty pic snapped with a flash as soon as the fish hit the tank. 









I'll definitely get some more pictures over the weekend. I can't wait to get these beautiful little fish into their own tanks! 

Since I haven't kept guppies in a long time I'm definitely open to suggestions on tank set up for these little beauties. I plan on using a sponge filter, and loading the tank up with Anubias, Hydrocotyle and some peacock moss. No doubt there will be a Crypt or two in there because, well, would you expect anything else from me?! I'll probably light the tank using a couple of the Deep Blue Professional Solar Flare 3w 6700k LED lamps. I don't currently have any substrate other than the bags of ADA Amazonia that are set aside for my 60p, so I'll probably run grab either some pool filter sand or black diamond blasting sand. I'll probably go with whatever is easier to locate close to my house since they are both cheap af. I don't have any spare wood but I do have a bunch of Seiryu stone. I might use a few small pieces of that. 

I'll try to get pictures of the whole process as I work through things tomorrow! 


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Working on setting up a couple more tanks tonight. 










I got a 5.5 gallon up and running using an already seeded sponge filter. I caught 5 of the Aphyosemion cinnamomeum Kurume ADL 13-35 from my 55 and put them in already. There are probably 4 or 5 more left in the 55 that I will try to catch tomorrow. The tank is bare bottomed. I covered the surface with Salvinia minima so that there were no open patches of water. Inside the tank I tossed a couple nice size rhizomes of needle leaf Java fern that have leaves which are a little over a foot long! Plus a couple big balls of peacock moss that I pulled apart a bit so they fill up a large portion of the tank space. I'll be adding some more plants, of course, probably some sort of Anubias, more peacock moss and maybe some Hydrocotyle tripartita sp. 'Japan.' The majority of the water in the tank can directly from the 55, with less than a gallon being new water. 

----- I'll put a picture here (later) in the morning once the lights are on & after I fall asleep & wake up! It's 5:30am & I've been awake all night...[emoji19]-----

I'm planning to sell some of these killies at the upcoming Desert Aquarist Society meeting, or maybe Arizona Rivulin Keepers meeting in Phoenix if I can make it up there. 

I would like to eventually use this tank to house the Aphyosemion Australe Cap Estérias BSWG 97/24 trio that are currently in the 20G long with my Apisto erythrura & Dwarf Pencilfish. The hope is to add a either a second trio or maybe one male & three of four females. Although, I might put a basic substrate in for that, pool filter sand or black diamond. I may also need to swap it for a 10g if I end up going with the larger breeding group.

I seriously double up on sponge filters in the majority of the tanks that I've got them running in, just for this reason. When I need a new or extra filter, I pull a sponge filter out of a tank with two, replace it with a new one into the tank & use the seeded filter to start a new tank with basically no cycle. (Most of the time!) The tank tonight, for example, the filter has been running in the 10g Killi/Apisto tank for a while. The 10g I'm currently working on for the guppies will get one of the two dual sponge filters that have been running in my 20L Apisto/Dwarf Pencilfish tank for at least a year. 

I purchased a bag of pool filter sand today. The plan is to use this sand for the 10g tank for the two Blue Panda Dwarf Guppy pairs I got Friday. I've never used this as a substrate in any of my planted tanks, or aquariums in general I guess! [emoji23]This will be my first time aquascaping with any light colored sand. I'm currently planning to use only Seiryu Stone in the tank, but I do have some manzanita I could possibly use if needed. 

Here are a few shots of the layout I threw together tonight. Well, after I explain the following! 

Since the short side of the tank is facing the front it's a bit different than scaping for the normal tank setup. For now though the long side is visible and facing my bed, where I often read, study or chill during the short amount of time I'm not in the library on campus. So I have tried to make it scaped to look good from both sides. 

I do plan to find some egg crate to raise up the stones a bit higher. Probably raise up the stones specifically at the back and on the left side(when facing the front(short) side... 

I also tried to make sure that most of the angles were similar. Along with trying to align the veins running through the stones as well as the textures of the rock 



Suggestions are definitely welcome! 

Long side



































































































Kinda the angle I would see a lot...




























Well, like I said, I would love to hear your thoughts. I've never done an all stone aquascape. There will be a lot of moss, Bucephalandra, Anubias nana & A. nana petite. Perhaps some of the more rare Anubias species. 


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## SKYE.__.HIGH (Mar 18, 2017)

First off may I ask if this is going to be high tech?

IMO i think you should make the rows of rock closer to take up less room, it will also make to have a bigger foreground area for a carpet (more for high tech) and then if you were planning on stem plants you would have plenty of room there too. 


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

SKYE.__.HIGH said:


> First off may I ask if this is going to be high tech?
> 
> IMO i think you should make the rows of rock closer to take up less room, it will also make to have a bigger foreground area for a carpet (more for high tech) and then if you were planning on stem plants you would have plenty of room there too.
> 
> ...



I don't plan on this being high tech. It will have either a 24" dual T5HO w/Giesemann bulbs or a dimmable 18" BML 6300k Dutch. Both options will be raised above the tank so the light levels are in the medium to medium low range, which I will test using a friend's PAR meter. 

I'll definitely try moving the rocks closer together. 

What I tried to do was have the highest point be on the 2/3 mark at the back & put another peak on the 1/3 point but have it be a bit lower than the highest. Maybe I can keep that while still making them tighter together. 



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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I'm certainly no scaping expert, but I think it looks awesome. My only concern would be getting it to flow with such a small amount of open space. I would start with the larger anubias nana on one side then transition to the anubias nana petit and then to the smaller Buces... but there may be other ways to do it to make it look natural. Like I said I'm a beginner.


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

The Dude1 said:


> I'm certainly no scaping expert, but I think it looks awesome. My only concern would be getting it to flow with such a small amount of open space. I would start with the larger anubias nana on one side then transition to the anubias nana petit and then to the smaller Buces... but there may be other ways to do it to make it look natural. Like I said I'm a beginner.



Disclaimer: This is a long post but I threw in some fish pictures at the bottom! [emoji2][emoji41]

Definitely won't be using any plants with large leaves. Anubias barteri var. nana might be about the largest. Any Crypts will be small leafed like C. parva, C. x willisii 'lucens', and perhaps one of the taller varieties such as C. spiralis. I appreciate the suggestion to transition from large to small leaves. I'm definitely going to see how that looks. 

I still haven't fully decided on the plant layout or what I'm planning on using for the foreground. I've thought about a combo of Hydrocotyle tripartita with a few Hydrocotyle verticillata around the edges, or maybe some of the nice, short Sagittaria subulata. Although, I am checking out several other options that have been suggested to me by a couple friends in the hobby. 

As another friend reminded me, "don't stress about the rocks too much, you're going to completely cover them in plants!" [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

The flow is certainly a concern. I'll only be using two dual sponge filters so there won't be a huge amount of flow. I think with the way the rocks are currently set up I will be able to direct the flow from the two filters to create a circular flow through the tank. I know that the rocks look like they are going to make deep gaps on each side between the glass and rock but I think once a couple inches of sand is added this won't really be too much of an issue. If it is I can always bump up the filtration to a small canister filter. 

I am still considering getting some egg crate to stake up underneath some of the stones in the back and against the back half of the left side. If I do this, I will be filling in that space with Hydroton to keep the area from going anaerobic with super deep sand. 

Now for some fish pictures that I took this morning, mostly in the 5.5g currently housing the Gertrude's Rainbowfish & 3 Golden Pencilfish from my 55. To get the water nice and soft for the bows, I've been tossing IAL into the tank fairly often which has basically turned the tank into a little blackwater home. 

















































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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Johnson 18's New Rack! Several Species! New Aquascape-Help!!*

I picked up two pairs of Okefenokee Pygmy Sunfish, Elassoma okefenokee, over the weekend at the local club meetings. These are wild collected fish. I picked up a pair last night at a club meeting in Phoenix and one today here in Tucson. A club member went collecting in Florida among June or July and brought a variety of fish back. I currently have them with the rainbows but I know this is not a long term solution. I'm pretty stoked to have these badass little fish. I've yet to get any pictures of them. Hell, today I couldn't hardly find the pair I got last night. 

Here's a shot of a male from the web.









Along with these I grabbed another pair of the Apistogramma urteagai. I'm hoping to eventually use these in the blackwater 40b I've been stock piling goods to build.


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Getting the 10g built today. It is sand and Seiryu stone. I decided to put some Amazonia under the sand in areas that I'd like the plants to do well in. There are a couple cups worth total. 










Already starting to plant it. Here's the plant list: Crypt. parva, Marsilia minuta, Echinodorus quadricostatus, true Sagittaria subulata, hydrocotyle leucocephala & verticillata, & little leopard Val in the very back. 


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

That is going to look killer... get some pics up of the apistogramma!! Are you going to keep the sunfish with the Apistogramma?


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

The Dude1 said:


> That is going to look killer... get some pics up of the apistogramma!! Are you going to keep the sunfish with the Apistogramma?




Thanks dude! The Okefenokee's and the Apistos will probably never be kept together. They both have semi bossy attitudes & the Apistos are not an inch long yet & already larger than the Sunfish will ever get. 

Here a couple pics of A. urteagai. It's tough to capture these guys in all their beauty. They look fairly dull & then the light catches them just right & their whole body is covered in iridescent blues and greens! 





































There are also some decent looking shrimp in that 10 too! I'm sure some of the baby shrimp are becoming Apisto food too though. 




























I've yet to get a good pic, but there is one male Okefenokee that is already looking just as good as the pic I got from the web! 

I'm not sure what will go in the 10g I just finished setting up. It depends on where the water parameters settle out at. Here is the finished product, only minutes after I dropped in a well used sponge filter. Either the guppies, Okefenokee's, or two trios of Aphyosemion australe from my 20L. 





























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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

That rock scape looks awesome. What are you planning to plant? High tech? After a few weeks of C02 I will never go back to low tech. I'm struggling to keep C02 out of my shrimp tank. Is that your main colony in the tank with the Apisto's or do you have a shrimp only tank set up?


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

The Dude1 said:


> That rock scape looks awesome. What are you planning to plant? High tech? After a few weeks of C02 I will never go back to low tech. I'm struggling to keep C02 out of my shrimp tank. Is that your main colony in the tank with the Apisto's or do you have a shrimp only tank set up?




The 10g with the rock was the plant list I posted earlier today. It is fully planted already. I'll be throwing some stems in to float too for the first couple weeks. It will not be high tech. Currently has a dual T5HO w/Giesemann bulbs-a midday & an aquaflora. 

The cherry shrimp are in with the two pairs of A. urteagai & a trio of Aphyosemion sp. 'COFE'. The Apistos are less than an inch. There are easily 75-100 cherries in there. 


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

The 10g with the rock scape that I planted last week has started growing!! I added a more dwarf sag and a bunch of micro sword that I got at the Arizona Aquatic Plants Enthusiasts meeting yesterday. 

My haul from the club









First round of adding plants last night


















After adding the rest today.


















I hope the sag doesn't out compete the E. quadricostatus. I'll be thinning the taller sag. out as needed if that begins to happen. The original true Sagittaria subulata is pretty much the only things that melted in the tank. A random piece of MM here & there but not much. 

I've currently got a bunch of Ludwigia stems floating in this tank & I've added some Salvinia minima too. 

Haven't tested any parameters. The combination of the well used sponge filter and the Amazonia have the cycling going. I'm not in a rush, I wanted to get the plants going. 


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

I finally checked the water parameters on the 10g rock scape tank. It was set up 9/16/17 & today is 9/29.
pH: 7.4
Ammonia: ~0.5ppm
Nitrite: ~1.0-2.0ppm
Nitrate: ~10ppm
TDS: 189

I didn't bother to check anything else even though I've got tests for KH, GH, Phosphate, etc. Once the tank is cycled I'll spend the time to look at everything else. 

Looks like there might be a tiny bit of green dust algae starting on the glass. I'm running a way long photoperiod than I need. I guess I really should take my own advice & drop it down a couple hours. 

I'm planning on rearranging a few tanks, maybe this weekend. This will include removing the 55 & 20L emersed tanks, combining those plants into another tank, either a 10g or 20H. The goal is to make space for my blackwater 40b. I'm not ready to start that tank build yet but I'm ordering the last of the supplies this weekend. This will also make room for a couple more 10gal & 5gal tanks, & maybe a 20g. I'm hoping to use them for breeding projects for fish I've already got, the 3 species of killies, the Okefenokee Pygmy Sunfish & maybe Apisto grow out tanks if I'm lucky!

Since this was a lot of words and no pictures, I hope you read this far. If so, here is a pic of one of my Apisto. urteagai & a cherry shrimp.











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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

New 10 gallon!

Picked up a couple pieces of Malaysian driftwood today that will go in one of the new 10 gallon tanks. This tank will be set up as a blackwater tank with seed pods & leaf litter, although it will definitely have some plants. 

Here are the pieces, the pic of the two together is in no way representative of the scape. I'm gonna need a couple more pieces to provide plenty of hiding spots and line of sight breaks.














































The current plan for plants is for some swords, like E. parviflorus, E. quadricostatus, or some other small swords. Since I'm using Malaysian driftwood which has such nice crevices, I will almost certainly us some small rhizome plants like Anubias nana petite, & bucephalandra. I will definitely be using some moss too, probably peacock, or maybe I'll use some Süßwassertang, two species that I've already got a ton available. It is highly likely that I'll use some Crypts too, or maybe Vals. If I use stems it might be something fairly simple like water sprite (honestly, kind of doubtful) or star grass.

I would like to use plants I don't have in a bunch of other tanks already. Especially when it comes to swords, stems, and perhaps Crypts/Vals. At the same time, I'm not trying to spend a ton of money on new plants. So it might depend on what's available at October's upcoming club meetings. 

The big question is, of course, how will this tank be stocked?!?! I honestly don't know. There are several possibilities, which include: the two pairs of Okefenokee Pygmy Sunfish, a pair of Apistogramma urteagai, or a pair of another small Apistogramma species like A. borellii, or ??? There are a number of other species I'd be interested in keeping that would work well in the type of setup!!

Anyone have any thoughts or ideas on this talk set up?! 



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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Sorry there aren't many pics in this post. It's definitely a planning post. I will include some Apisto pics I got this morning though! 

The $1/gallon sale couldn't come at a better(worse?) time as I'm trying to figure out exactly how I want to set up this the tanks on my rack. 

I think the 5 gallon tanks are going to get moved to a different shelving unit on the other side of the room. I've got two currently running and one more unused in the garage. This shelving unit will also hold any shoeboxes & such for killifish. It currently holds many of my supplies, so as I set up more tanks space will open up. 

This leaves me with a total of four 10 gallon tanks(two are still unused in the garage) as well as one 20H. I'm going to pick up at least two more 20H tanks, possibly three. I'm thinking about going with more the 20 gallon tanks than previously thought so that I have to room to keep pairs of Apistogramma. This allows me to expand my current collection of Apistogramma species. 

The left side will have the blackwater 40 breeder and either a 10 or 20 on the top. The bottom of the left side is the area I have the most indecision about. I think it is just going to have three tanks & the canister filter for the 40. I think my choice is two 20s & a 10 or three 10s. The tanks on the bottom will all be lit by a single 48" dual lamp T5HO that I will hang above the tanks far enough that they are low light. I'll use a PAR meter to figure out where to hang the light. If I decide I need more light I've also got a 30" T5HO that will be unused after I break down the 20L emersed tank to make room for these tanks. 

The right side will have the emersed 40 breeder on the bottom and at least once canister filter from the 60p. The top will have either three or four tanks. It really depends on which direction I decide to have my 60p facing. I'm considering placing the short side facing the front of the rack, which puts the long side facing my bed. That's where I spend the majority of my time when I'm in the room anyways. This would allow me to put four tanks on the top. 

Many of these tanks will be planted, some heavily others not so much. A few will be blackwater but with some plants like swords, hydrocotyle, and floaters. Many will use only sponge filters, the ones with sponge filters will all contain at least two dual sponge filters. I've got a bag of pool filter sand & will also be scooping up a bag of black diamond blasting sand. I've got the miracle grow soil to go dirted if I want on a couple tanks. 

I'm picking up an ro unit this weekend. More on this later

If anyone has ideas on making this rack function easier or ideas on set up or anything, please feel free to comment & help me out. I've never tried to run so many tanks at once. Well, I've currently got 9 tanks running. Overall this will only add a couple to the total number I'm running, bumping the total to like 12 or 13 depending on how many 5s I keep running. 

If you've actually read all of this, THANK YOU! Let me know what you think! 

Now for a few pictures! The Apistogramma urteagai are looking good!




























Plus an Okefenokee 










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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

I took my 750 lumen LED bike light to the 10g that's got all the different species in it currently. All my fish hate me now. 

I saw some adult Apistogramma urteagai a couple weekends ago in a local guy's fishroom. I was pleased to see the the fin size to body size ratio stays about the same. These guys fins are almost as large as their body, which I absolutely love! 




























Male blue panda dwarf guppy




























Adult female Aphyosemion sp. "COFE"





















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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

I know, I know, so many posts... well, even better than bike lights, freshly hatched baby brine shrimp! My fish in every single tank went nuts, absolutely nuts! This is the first time I have hatched them. It was super easy & I've already started another small batch. My main reason for starting my own live food was the wild caught Okefenokee Pygmy Sunfish. I've struggled to feed these little guys. Having tried a number of foods, dried and frozen, with quite little success. I purchased a small daphnia culture a couple weeks ago, unfortunately, I fed too many of them before the culture was really able to get going. Then I put in WAY too much yeast & fermented the rest. I've currently got a bucket going that has a bunch of random micro organisms living in it. Will be picking up another large daphnia culture next week & adding it to this. I've also got some daphnia pulex cysts I will be attempting to hatch. I'm going to attempt to get a starter culture of Grendel worms too. 

Now onto the fun part!! After feeding the 10g tank with the A. urteagai I was lucky enough to witness two fish, I think of the same sex, posturing for control of this little cave area on the side of the tank less viewed. I think it's the females from the few pictures & descriptions I can find, but I could be totally wrong. These same two were posturing in a photo a couple days back too. The smaller fish stood its ground and kept its cave. These fish need a larger tank soon, though the two pairs will probably continue to stay in the same tank, and may get a third pair added, if they go into the 40B. 
Just FYI, since there a bit of a glare on that side, the larger fish enters from the right...




























This is the first pic the larger fish is visible in. 



































































































There are way more pictures in the series but I figured these showed a good representation of what happened. These also show the best color I've ever gotten on camera! Thoughts? Comments?




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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Found what I think was the smaller male Apisto dead this morning. No signs of illness. With the standoffs I've been seeing with the females lately, it wouldn't surprise me if it was bullying. They have obviously reached that age where it is possible. And as you can see in the pictures of the females, there is certainly a size difference.

I'm skipping my first class to do a water change. I'll leave some aside to test this evening. I tested it the same day I checked the new 10g & everything was fine. I did feed some newly hatched bbs two days ago, but tried not to feed in excess where they'd be dying & decomposing in the tank. This could have happened though as it was the first batch of brine shrimp I have hatched.

Definitely a little bummed. I hate to see livestock die in my care but it happens to us all. Fortunately, I know where to get another pair when it is time to stock the 40B. Like I said when I posted the pictures of the females, the blackwater 40B tank needs to get started as soon as possible. I may try to do that on Saturday. I'll be moving the canister from my 55, which currently has two & way too much flow, so I would think the cycle would only take a week or so. You never know with that though! 

I'm not sure if I should add the blackwater tank to this journal, or start its own journal. What do y'all think?


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

@Nlewis @TheDude1 What are your thoughts on putting two male & three female A. urteagai into the 40b? I've been unable to find info as to if this species breeds as pairs, trios, or harems. The tank will be loaded up with enough manzanita to scape a 75, plus loads of leaf litter, seed pods as well as several of the little clay caves. I will try to grow some vals/Crypts and dwarf sag around randomly too. 

Also please check out the question above about tank journals. Thanks guys!


Edit: looks like A. urteagai is in the A.-regani-Group, resticulosa-Complex. Which from what I can find means that the males should be opportunistically polygamous. That might mean that a 2m/3f combo might work if I provide enough hiding spots and line of sight breaks. Thoughts?


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

johnson18 said:


> @Nlewis @TheDude1 What are your thoughts on putting two male & three female A. urteagai into the 40b? I've been unable to find info as to if this species breeds as pairs, trios, or harems. The tank will be loaded up with enough manzanita to scape a 75, plus loads of leaf litter, seed pods as well as several of the little clay caves. I will try to grow some vals/Crypts and dwarf sag around randomly too.
> 
> Also please check out the question above about tank journals. Thanks guys!
> 
> ...


I don’t see a question regarding tank journals. 

If it were me I’d do 2 trios or maybe even 2 pairs. The problem I had with the Caca trio was one female ended up “the odd man out”. It was to the point I thought they were going to kill and I had to remove her. I just don’t like when fish become super aggressive and I’ll get rid of them when they do. If they’re breeding that’s different and a parent will protect their young, so that gets a pass. In the end, every fish is different temperament wise, so go with your gut.


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Thanks @Nlewis!! I appreciate you opinion on this as you've definitely got more Apisto experience than I do. I'm pretty much a newb when it comes to Apistos & certainly didn't go with the easy beginner species. I'll check with my buddy who has to A. urteagai juveniles to see what he has available as far as sex ratios & numbers. I don't think I want more than two males but I guess I could go up to like 2-3(4?) females per male. Do you think going with more females, like 3f/1m, might help reduce the aggression toward the extra female since rather than one extra female there would two extras per male. I know that if I add more females I will need to create a greater number of caves/territories & have more line of sight breaks. I will definitely have an out for these extras in case the aggression gets too bad. 

My tank journal question was if I should create a separate 40b blackwater tank journal or if I just post it all in this rack thread? 


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

johnson18 said:


> Thanks @Nlewis!! I appreciate you opinion on this as you've definitely got more Apisto experience than I do. I'm pretty much a newb when it comes to Apistos & certainly didn't go with the easy beginner species. I'll check with my buddy who has to A. urteagai juveniles to see what he has available as far as sex ratios & numbers. I don't think I want more than two males but I guess I could go up to like 2-3(4?) females per male. Do you think going with more females, like 3f/1m, might help reduce the aggression toward the extra female since rather than one extra female there would two extras per male. I know that if I add more females I will need to create a greater number of caves/territories & have more line of sight breaks. I will definitely have an out for these extras in case the aggression gets too bad.
> 
> My tank journal question was if I should create a separate 40b blackwater tank journal or if I just post it all in this rack thread?
> 
> ...


Yeah make a separate one and I’ll sub that one too. 

Going with a higher female ratio is probably okay. Again, only time will tell in regards to aggression. It depends on the fish that you have. My Baenschi did fine with 2m/4f, the males just had their own territory and the females interacted fine with each other. Frankly I never even really had aggression between the males when they wondered into each other’s space.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I agree with different journals. Its easier to keep things organized. What else would you put in the 40b? I don't know enough about Apisto's to offer any advice. I would definately add both groups at the same time. Either way that will be cool. I'm going to try to add another pair to both tanks at some point.


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

The Dude1 said:


> I agree with different journals. Its easier to keep things organized. What else would you put in the 40b? I don't know enough about Apisto's to offer any advice. I would definately add both groups at the same time. Either way that will be cool. I'm going to try to add another pair to both tanks at some point.




So my original plan for stocking the 40b was:
2 pairs of Apistogramma urteagai

~25 Nannostomus trifasciatus - Three-lined Pencilfish

~15 Carnegiella strigata - Marbled Hatchetfish 

2-3 L066 Hypancistrus sp. - King Tiger or Scribbled pleco


Now I think it is going to be closer to this:
2 males & 6 females of Apisto. urteagai 
~25 or less Nannostomus trifasciatus - Three-lined Pencilfish 
Along with one of the following options:

2-3L066 Hypancistrus sp. - King Tiger or Scribbled pleco- preferably a M/F combo 
OR
10-15 Otocinclus 

Im not a fan of mixing the different Apisto species together. I know you can mix the different groups together but I don't see the point of risking the possibility of hybrids. I would much rather put a larger number of the same species together. 

I think the original stock list would be ok in the tank but not if I want the Apistos to breed and successfully raise offspring. 

I will make a separate journal for the blackwater 40b in the next few days. 


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Will the dominant male tolerate a subordinate in a 3' tank? I very much understand the hybrid concern. My ultimate issue is the Gold Caucatoides. If it were me with what little experience I have I would only do a single male unless you have a solid option to move him. 
Will those Plecos not rasp plants? Every type I've ever had (not those) damage plants. I would likely do some combination of Corys, Oto's, and Amano shrimp, or Nerites.


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

I picked up some pygmy corydoras at the local club meeting today. They went into the 10g with the rocks as the first fish in the tank. Within an hour of being released they were swimming actively throughout the whole tank. 










Also got a pair of Pseudomugil gertrudae 'aru iv'. Honestly, they just went in with the rest of my Gertrude's. I think they will be moved into a different tank where they can be seen. It will probably just be a small tank full of spawning mops. I'd like to get a large group of these to use in a display tank. Currently I've got around 10 total. 

Picked up a third pair of Okefenokee Pygmy Sunfish. I'd like to switch up a couple things within their current tank to encourage breeding. This may end up being one tank for spawning & another where the adults reside once the fry are free swimming. 

I'm planning to work more with the Aphyosemion cinnamoneum for breeding. One thing to start is that I bought two big bags of guppy grass and two of Java moss. I stuffed all of it into the 5.5g that they are in. This may allow any young males to go ahead and develop as they aren't constantly in the presence of the main male. The adult male was already showing some nice breeding colors this morning. 



















I also picked up two more 20g tanks and a couple 5.5. I'm debating returning the two 5.5g and swapping for either another 20g or some more 10s. I'd like to find some 2.5g tanks for my killifish breeding but Petco doesn't sell them.

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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

I need to replace the ballasts on my 48" T5HO dual lamp fixture that I will use on the bottom of this rack over the 20g tanks. I plan to hang this fixture so that it isn't high light or anything close. Does anyone have experience doing this? I've replaced plenty of ballast on other non-aquarium fixtures, so I'm not worried about that part. From what I've read, the Fulham Workhorse is the go to best replacement. Anyone used them? I may actually go ahead and replace the one on my 55's light too as that fixture is about a year older than the one with the bad ballasts. Both fixtures could use new bulbs, although the fixture for the rack probably won't get them first. 


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

If you've seen the above pic, you might already know that the "pygmy corys" that I got were obviously not Corydoras pygmaeus. After a bit of looking to determine if they were C. hasbrosus or C. hastatus, we decided they are hasbrosus. I went by ANA and grabbed several more, pretty sure the 10g rock tank now has 10 Corydoras hasbrosus. I haven't yet decided what else to put in that tank so it'll sit there a while with the corys. 



















There is a good bit of detritus left from some of the melting plants throughout the cycle. I've so far been unsuccessful at removing it all. I keep removing what I can but it doesn't seem to make a dent. Hopefully once the plants have a few more weeks to fully establish root systems I can just siphon off the top layer of sand and all the detritus along with it. 


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

I finally rearranged the tanks in order to clear space to set up the 90p. I’ve got pretty much everything I need for that tank build. I’ve left a spot for my Mr. Aqua all the way on the right side where the cardboard lid currently holds some supplies. 










When I moved these tanks around, I also took the time to rerun the air lines to all the sponge filters. I hooked two 4-way gang valves together in line. This allows me to run only one air pump. I’m running the TopFin 4000 adjustable air pump. I’ve got several of these around the house. The second one which I removed today will be used on my second rack which will primarily have small tanks(2.5, 5.5, 10max!), along with shoeboxes and small cups to age eggs in. 

A friend gave me multiple heaters today, they’re going into specific tanks that need temps higher than the low 70’s it will be nice once I set up the 20h tanks for some Apistos. 

The current emersed tanks, the 20L and 55 will be combined into either a 10 or 20g tank. There are really only a couple plants I absolutely have to salvage from these emersed tanks, pretty much everywhere else is in other tanks too. I’ve got a semi-aquatic orchid that pretty much only grows emersed. That plant may be the main plant in the smaller emersed tank

Ok, So I’ve got a bucket full of Crypt balansae and leopard val from a buddy. I will be adding a bunch to several of these tanks. The leopard val will be one of the main plants in the back of my 90p. I’m definitely gonna have a bunch of extras of both species though. 













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## GMYukonon24s (May 3, 2009)

The cories you have are c. habrosus. I just picked up some c. habrosus and c. pygmaeus to add new genes to the tank at local auction yesterday. Leopard Val is a great easy grass. You have alot of happy fish in those tanks.


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Everything on the rack has been doing well. Well, mostly. Overall, I’m pleased with the way things are progressing. There are a definitely a few negatives, but that’s what way things go. I’ve picked up several new species of Killifish, lots of Crypt. parva, and some new lights. The rack is still in the same room, but we’ve swapped the office and my bedroom so that the rack is now in the office/fishroom. Which is actually pretty cool, because I can go ahead and set up my killifish tanks while not worrying about the extra noise of more sponge filters. 

I’ll try to break this update down by tank. Hopefully that will make things easier to follow along, or skip through to whatever you wanna read. 

10g rock scape

I lost several of the Corydoras hasbrosus when I went to San Diego for the weekend. Since I was planning to pick up several pairs of killifish I had put new sponge filters into several of my tanks. The one I tossed into the 10g rock tank was attached to the front glass, using both suction cups which meant the sponges were right against the glass. The fish tried to swim between the sponge and the glass where they got stuck. I haven’t replaced them yet, so I’ve just got four left. The school of hasbrosus will be rebuilt though, I’d like to have a big group, maybe 10-15 of them. 

While in SD I bought pretty much all of the Cryptocoryne parva that I could find, about half of it went into this tank. One shop had small round clumps, maybe 1-1.5” diameter, of submersed grown parva for only $2.99! I bought all of them. All of this C. parva went into the 10g rock tank with the corys and Apistogramma erythrura pair. There was already 15+ individual parva plants in the tank. The addition of these clumps has made for a nice thick planting of Crypt parva all along the edge of the rocks in the front half of the tank. 










The plants are all growing. After the original planting, the leopard val all melted away & didn’t grow back. I finally planted some more a few weeks ago, it has all done alright. The H. quadricostatus are all throwing out new leaves. I’m excited to see how this plant grows. 











The Apistogramma erythrura are definitely much happier in this tank rather than the 20L in the living room. There’s actually less plant coverage(though it is quickly filling in) but there is far less activity in the room & fewer fish in the tank. I’d like to move them to their own 20H as I get them up and running. 





































The female hides in this little rock cave. It’s kinda cool because all of the microsword I planted in front of the cave is starting to grow over the front. I’m pretty sure that within a month or so she will be completely hidden in there.










I think that I would eventually like to move the three pairs of Okefenokee Pygmy Sunfish into this tank. I’ll have to create a couple more hiding spots but I recently ordered 10 Cobalt Apisto Huts. These are the smallest of the ceramic caves. I’ve got plenty of moss to cover them with. I’m trying to decide which moss to use in this tank. I know I should’ve done that prior to flooding the tank. Currently I’ve got three mosses on different stones- Peacock, Wave, & .... well, damn. I’m gonna have to look up that third one again. 

Okay, I’ll update on the rest of the tanks later. Here’s a quick shot of the racks though. 




























Plus I have a pair of African annual killies breeding in this 5g bucket right now too.










Plus a shot of Harken looking all jealous bc the boys get to lay outside in the sun. 










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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

On to the new killifish!

The killifish that I recently added were all picked up at an AKA show in San Diego at the beginning of November. I bought six pairs, each of a different species. Unfortunately, I lost two pairs within a couple days of getting home. What I’m left with is four species of annual killifish, two African & two South American. 

South American:

Nematolebias whitei ‘Cabo Frio’










Spectrolebias reticulatus ‘Rio Xingu’










African:

Nothobranchius korthause ‘Yellow’










Callopanchax monroviae ‘Paynesville L97’










None of those images are mine. I’ve definitely not gotten any good pics of these fish yet. 

I need to come up with larger containers for these pairs to live in. The largest of them, the Callopanchax, will probably need a 10g tank as they can get fairly large, while the SAs could probably go into a 2.5(if they weren’t SOOOOO damn expensive!!) Talking with the Killi guys, it sounds like I should just use slightly larger plastic box. I’ve been thinking about taking one of my 20 longs and dividing it into either three or four smaller sections. I’ve got an old 20 long that has a couple chips & the silicon sucks, figured I could rip it apart & cut it to size. It doesn’t have to be pretty, just functional. I’m guessing it’s probably cheaper that building several small tanks individually. 

All these fish are fairly young, but they should mature quickly. I think the Nothos are the oldest. They’re all currently being fed a combo of Bug Bites & live baby brine shrimp. I’ve got a grindal worm culture but started with a small amount & still waiting for it to get of useable size. 

Here’s a shot of the Nothos at the show. They look way better now that they aren’t in a clear box. Lol. Actually, they’re in a 5g bucket. 



















The whitei male is looking awesome! Unfortunately I only ever get shots of him when he is in the corner of the container. 



















I’ll add more as I get better shots & figure out more about the tank/container situation. 



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## someoldguy (Feb 26, 2014)

I'd try to get all the annuals into 5 gallon tanks . Remember you'll have containers of spawning media in the tank , plus you'll be feeding . You want to minimize food getting into the media . This is less important with the notho if you're using media like green sand or walnut shells as you'll be removing eggs daily or every few days , but is real important with peat divers . You don't want food decaying in the peat while the peat is in storage . Wide mouth jars , small drum bowls or the tops of 100 pack CD/DVD sleeves work well for peat diver spawning media containers , as do deep deli containers with a hole cut into the lid . Allow around 2" of peat in the container . I've always used stuff called 'NoDampOff' . Its peat (actually sphagnum moss) thats been milled into a very coarse powder , eliminating any sticks and twigs . Regular Garden Center peat will work , but around here the smallest you can get is a 1 cubic foot bale , which is enough for a lifetime unless you're a big shot breeder . The NoDampOff comes in smaller bags . Whatever you use , gotta boil it first to get it waterlogged .


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Thank you for all the information! I appreciate you sharing your experience! 
Since I’ve got several 5.5g tanks, that’s the most likely option for all of these pairs. It has also been suggested that of all of these species, separating the Callopanchax is almost just a necessity due to the size they reach(5-6in from what one of the AKA judges said), it becomes more likely for the male to kill the female. If I don’t have enough 5.5g for each pair, along with one for each sex of the Callopanchax I might place the pair into a 10g. Dividing the 20L into thirds would easily allow me put 5g into each section. This might be preferable since the shelving unit the Killies are on is only 12” deep. 

I’m planning to grab some of the glass candleholder bowls at the $1 store. This has been recommended by several people. I’ve picked up a big pack of the jiffy peat pellets, the ones with no added fertilizers. I’ve also got a big bag of the long strand sphagnum moss. The peat will be boiled. It was suggested that I place it at least as deep as the fish’s body length. 

It was suggested that I place something over the top of the bowl for the N. whitei, leaving only a small entrance, so that the fish had to slightly push their way into the bowl. 




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## someoldguy (Feb 26, 2014)

Dividing the 20 might be a good idea . If you split the tank into 3 sections , put the nothos in the middle and the South Americans at the ends . This way , should one of the SA females make it into the center section , you'll know where it came from . Don't know about the Monrovia getting 6" , but they do get big and separating the pair can't hurt . Never heard of using the fishes length as a guide to peat depth , but it can't hurt . Though I'd use at least 2" for smaller species like nigripinnis and minimus . Forgot all about Jiffy pellets , probably because I don't use them. But a lot of guys around here do . Here's a couple of mediocre images taken this afternoon of my whitei tank . It's a 20 long containing 4 or 5 pairs . Peat's in a 2 quart plastic drum bowl .
I think the reasoning behind the narrow opening suggested to you is to keep down mess as the fish dive . I don't let peat stay in the tank more than 2 weeks ... one's better . It shouldn't begin to turn black and smell nasty .
When you harvest the peat , pour it into a net . I usually run some room temperature tap water through the peat to clear out any detritus ( you may get a bit of rotten egg smell from the peat , this takes care of that) . Then squeeze the excess water from the peat , you want it moist , but not sopping dripping wet. Drop the ball of squeezed peat into a plastic bag , blow into the bag and shake it so the peat ball breaks up some . Then seal the bag , remembering to label it with species , harvest date , and wet date . Try 3 months as a start .


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

I might have a serious problem with Pencilfish. 

I just keep buying more species!  

I added six Nannostomus marilynae, the Greenstripe Pencilfish, to the rock scaped 10g with the Apisto. erythrura & Corydoras hasbrosus. They are a beautiful species but one with quite subtle beauty. Unlike many pencils that have bright reds, these have no red on them. The light cream colored stripe above the main horizontal black stripe gets this amazing semi-iridescent green tint to it when the fish are happy and comfortable. 




























I needed something else in the tank as the Apistos were hiding too much. I think this will help them be more comfortable. Although, the more the plants continue to grow will also help quite a bit. I didn’t realize how much growth had been happening until I saw the pics I last posted in this thread. So much of it is low growing plants though, which does little to increase the comfort of the Apistos. Getting the 20g tanks going needs to be a priority over the next month while I’m out of school. 

Onto the plans for the upcoming 20 gallon tanks!

I’ve slowly been gathering pieces of Malaysian driftwood to use in the 20g tanks. I can’t decide if I want to make them strictly blackwater tanks, or if I will plant them somewhat heavily. Either way they won’t be high tech tanks. Since there will be four 20g tanks I’m sure there will definitely be some variation from tank to tank. 

My current plan is to use Black Diamond Blasting Sand as the substrate in all four tanks. I’ve used this in several tanks before and definitely like it. If I decide I want to actually plant a tank or two heavily I will probably pop for a 9L bag of ADA Amazonia. I’ve been super impressed at the growth in my blackwater 90p that has Amazonia under the sand cap. 

Each tank will have at least two large dual sponge filters as filtration. I’ve got a case of sponge filters that each sponge is like 6”h x 3.5”w, so I think that will be sufficient filtration. I’ve probably got 4 or 5 that are currently cycled and in other tanks as extras right now. 

I’ve picked up several 48” T5HO fixtures lately. My plan is still to hang one of these above the four tanks. I’ll be using slightly used bulbs though. As well as having the fixture maybe 12” above the tanks. 

The tanks will also be painted black. I haven’t decided if I want to paint the sides, or leave the sides clear, which would allow any Apisto pairs to think they have competition though they don’t actually. I’ve seen this done in a number of Apisto breeding rack videos.


As a side note, I’m also planning to redo the 5.5 that currently has the Gertrude’s and Okefenokees. The rainbows will be moved into a different tank. 

Here are some pics of the random fish in the overplanted 10g. The Apistogramma urteagai are looking good!






































Edit: I also recently ordered a wild caught pair of Apistogramma atahualpa "Sunset" from Peru. Not sure they’ll go on a tank on this thread or the 20L in my living room. In the long run they may get shuffled around out of the first tank they go into. 

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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Your tanks look so natural... the size and position of the stones is in proportion... everything looks great! Have you have any Gertrude fry make it to adulthood yet??


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Thank you so much, El Duderino! I appreciate the complement. It was my first time working with stone for an aquascape & I definitely took my time with it. 

I added four more Corydoras habrosus to the 10g rock scape. This brings the total up to 8 of them in there. Tossed a nice PFR shrimp from my plant stuffed 10g into the rock scape 10g to help with the algae. When I see another one or two around I will move them as well. 










A couple days ago I added a few more microsword plugs around the tank. They also went into random areas of the blackwater tank, and my 20L. I’ve got a huge mass of Marselia hirsuta floating in my blackwater 90p at the moment. It will be planted in a number of tanks. Some of it will go in the 10g rock scape tank, along with my 20L and at least one of the upcoming 20H tanks. 

(I will add a pic of this massive ball of MH once I get home this morning.)








This clump has to be several hundred nodes of MH. I’m currently spreading it throughout a bunch of tanks.

As you can see in the pics below, the rocks are growing some nice algae. I should have used some moss from the very beginning. I can’t get any to attach now. I have tried Peacock, Wave, & Willow. I need to just pull some buce and Anubias nana petite from my 55 to cover the stones. 



















The 10g rock scape got a Rio 50 added to it so that there would be a bit more water flow than was being provided by the sponge filter. 










I have not bred my Gertrude’s yet. I need to move them to their own tank & toss in a couple spawning mops. This should happen sometime soon, as I need to build the Okefenokee Pygmy Sunfish a new tank that is better suited for them the breed. 

I think the Okefenokee’s might go into the Mr. Aqua 60p. I know some might think that it would be a waste of space, but I feel like this would give the three pairs plenty of space to breed. Plus it would clear the 5.5 out for the Gertrude’s to breed. Actually the 60p might be better for the Apisto pair out of the rock 10g, moving the Sunfish into that 10g.

I need to set up a 5.5 or 10g for my two pairs of guppies. The females are super prego(they seriously look like they’re about to pop!), but I know the babies won’t make it even in the heavily planted 10g. At least not while there are two trios of Apistogramma urteagai in there!  Although, the shrimp population is still growing a little! 


I went ahead and grabbed a bag of ADA Amazonia Light. Sounds like the normal Amazonia will be available around the first of the year. I’ll get a bag of that as well. 


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

I just made a deal to trade a friend an old 40 breeder that I was given for his 25 gallon 24” x 24” x 11” tank. Pretty stoked about this tank. It’s gonna be fairly low tech, lots of manzanita, moss & Anubias, Crypts, & such. 100% chance that the tank will be a shrimp tank! I’m thinking it will be some sort of Caridina species! Hmmm.... I love the planning of tanks!


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

The Dude1 said:


> Have you have any Gertrude fry make it to adulthood yet??



I haven’t even tried to breed my Gertrude’s yet. I finally took my own advice yesterday while cleaning up my 20L. There was a ball of subwassertang that had seriously taken over like a quarter of the tank, one while end. Plus there were little bits of it spread all throughout the tank. It was caught on all the other plants, growing on the substrate, the drift wood and filters! I picked out every small piece I could find and then pulled out most of the mass, leaving a small ball maybe the size of my fist in the tank. The rest of it went straight into the 5.5 with the Gertrude’s and Okefenokee Sunfish. The mass of subwassertang that I pulled out of the 20L occupies more than half of the 5.5!! The Gertrude’s immediately began breeding! They were breeding like crazy this morning! I really need to fix up a tank for the Okefenokee Pygmy Sunfish to live in on their own. I’m buying all of the subwassertang I can at the January club meetings! 










Ugh. So many projects, so little time and energy! I’ve gotta decide what to focus on & what to set aside for now!

I’ve added three more RCS to the rock 10g 

Apistogramma erythrura male




















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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Does the subwassertang grow like moss?? Like attach to wood and stuff?? I want to see some in person. Is it moss-like? It looks kind of like thick wavy noodles, but if it's super small that's ok. Like could someone mistake it for moss-like? 
The moss in my tanks is a mess of java moss, Christmas moss, flame moss, and maybe some other stuff. It gets lots of green hair algae and doesn't look that good.
I counted 4 or 5 little fry when I left. I expected more to hatch... got home and I can only find 1 larger one.. 
I hope it's a male. I will call him Highlander... since there can be only one


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

@The Dude1
Subwassertang will attach to wood & such like moss. It definitely isn’t easily mistaken for a moss, at least in my opinion. Just has a different texture. I really like using it in tanks. It’s growth size depends a lot on the light it receives. In high light it’s little “waves” are smaller & the opposite is true for low light. I don’t have a super bad issue with hair algae attaching to it, like I do with moss(&and stem plants, & Swords, & Crypts, & just about anything in my 20L...) The growth for attaching to things is very slow. When I try to attach it to wood it doesn’t work, so I pretty much just toss it in the area I want it & let it do its thing. I think if you really, really wanted it on a driftwood for a specific scape, the paint on yogurt dry start method would be the best way to go. Actually I might do that for one of these upcoming tanks. I love the stuff though. I’ve got it in several tanks. Honestly, if you wanna PM me your address, I’ll send you some. 


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Emptied my shelf of driftwood to play with hardscapes for the 20H tanks. I’ve been slowly building up a stash Malaysian driftwood for several months, buying a few pieces at a time. I still don’t think I have enough to make multiple fantastic looking scapes. Trying to make two good looking scapes is difficult, I think it is workable though. The more I think about it, I’m not sure I really need to focus on making great looking aquascape for these tanks. I want them to be functional in that the pairs of Apistos should be comfortable. I will be using aquatic botanicals in these tanks as well. Lots of seed pods and leaf litter. 

Here’s one that I quickly threw together. 









The tanks that I will use Amazonia in will be more heavily planted than the ones that are just Black Diamond Blasting Sand. A couple days ago I picked up 100 pounds of BDBS. I’ve been trying to decide how I want to plant the tanks. Do I want to stick with a biotope-ish theme or do I wanna use other simple plants like Crypts, moss & ferns? Obviously, with multiple tanks it wouldn’t be difficult to go both ways using separate tanks. 

Decided to do a little advanced prep. Took 8 of the Colbalt Apisto Huts and wrapped them in peacock moss. I left a bunch of the moss still in the 55 to continue growing out. On one hut I tied a few small windlov ferns on top of the moss, just to see how it would look, I’m not sure if I mentioned it or not, but I found those specific ceramic caves for sale for $4.00 each which is a big difference from the $6-8.99 I had paid for the first few I bought. I purchased all 10 that were available at that price and got free shipping. 1 was broken in transport & was refunded without returning it. I will probably make the broken one work for something else like the Okefenokee tank. 



















I’ve noticed that Petco has their older pro line heaters on sale. I might but several as heaters is one thing I’m always short on! 


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

So along with the order of the wild caught pair of Apistogramma atahualpa from Peru, I ordered a pair of Biotoecus opercularis. These little cichlids have a very subtle beauty to them. I had been debating getting some checkerboard cichlids, but these really caught my eye. Looking forward to getting these fish in! Gonna get the 20s set up tomorrow. 


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I'm excited to see them!! Could you take a pic of the Gertude tank? I'd like to do something with mine so I'm planning out plant purchases. Do you think a maybe like 5" x 5" section of subwassertang on the substrate would be adequate for eggs and then some driftwood branches covered in maybe Christmas moss reaching to the surface would work?? You are already feeding your Gertrudes BBS right? I'm excited to see your results. I'd love to have some better aesthetics in the tanks and if I'm changing it I might as well make it how I want right?


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

The Dude1 said:


> I'm excited to see them!! Could you take a pic of the Gertude tank? I'd like to do something with mine so I'm planning out plant purchases. Do you think a maybe like 5" x 5" section of subwassertang on the substrate would be adequate for eggs and then some driftwood branches covered in maybe Christmas moss reaching to the surface would work?? You are already feeding your Gertrudes BBS right? I'm excited to see your results. I'd love to have some better aesthetics in the tanks and if I'm changing it I might as well make it how I want right?




My Gertrude tank is the semi-blackwater tank pictured about with the subwassertang in it. the damn thing is some leaf litter, a few seed pod caves, one anubias and that mass of subwassertang. Honestly, it and my 5.5g killie tank are the only two that are not somewhat scaped. I figured breeding would be a priority so why mess with a scape, but breeding obviously didn't happen(yet)... 

@The Dude1 throwing in an edit here for you!






































I'm still of the mind set that unless you're going to focus on breeding, with spawning mops and such, the tank should be as HEAVILY planted as possible. I do love Christmas Moss though! The BBS kind of fell by the wayside during the last couple weeks of school and finals, and I haven't resumed. Definitely need too. 



In the end, you are the one that has to look at your tanks on a daily basis which means that you should make you tanks how you want them to look.


On a side note: today I got to pick up some fish that will end up on this rack!! A pair of Peruvian wild caught Apistogramma atahualpa ‘Sunset’ and a pair of Biotoecus opercularis. I’m super excited about both of these species! I think one of them may end up staying the 20L(where they both currently are residing), although I can’t decide which one. Obviously, the original goal for the 20H tanks was for Apistos but I couldn’t resist. I know the wild caught fish will definitely do better in a 20H, but idk if the Biotoecus will fair better one way or the other. Does anyone have experience with them? Doesn’t seem to be a huge amount of info published on the web, other than some posts on forums, like the Apisto forum. Here’s a crappy pic of them


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Some of these tanks(probably the smaller ones) will be broken down or moved over the next couple months. I was in the planning stage of building a 50g vivarium using one of the tanks I’ve already got but a different opportunity came up. I made arrangements to pick up a tank from a buddy in Phoenix this weekend. It’s a custom built 120g ter/viv/pal tank. He had it built specifically for a vivarium so it uses 1/4” glass, which obviously won’t hold the weight of a tank full of water. The dimensions are 48”x24”x24”. I will be building a vivarium in the tank using a custom live background. I’ve already ordered 3 cans of Great Stuff Pond and Stone & a tube of black silicone. I’ll need more now. I’m looking into poison dart frogs, or maybe some fish, but I may skip livestock all together. This tank is large enough that I’m a little intimidated as my first vivarium by the planning and build. Due to this I will be quite focused on the planning stages of this build. I’m super excited by the whole thing! The variety of plants available for use in a vivarium is so huge that I can’t wait to start collecting them! Actually, I’ve already ordered a few that I will start growing out in my emersed tanks. As the planning stages get a little further along I will start a thread specifically for the tank. 


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I had a 46 gallon bowfront that I covered into a paludarium with azureus dart frogs (blue and black ones). It was a journey. Like starting off with your first java fern in your 10 gallon Betta tank. If you can swing it, do a mist king system from the start. It was tough.. some plants died and came back.. others just died.. some worked in one area, but no where else for some inexplicable reason. My only suggestion is don't reinvent the wheel upon start up. Start with plants that have a high likelihood of success by what you have seen others do... not by what you think should happen. Java moss is great for ground type areas (But the PDF's don't like walking on it) where as Christmas moss is great some vertical areas that stay damp. DEFINATELY post a detailed journal. I'm getting into terrariums/paludariums again. Ive got a little bowl that I'm trying to grow some terrestrial mosses (That I collected in NC) in and make something for the dining room table. Not having much luck so I may go to java moss.
Those pencilfish come in? You haven't posted pics yet. Maybe you could include some shots of your emersed grow outs? I'm having a hell of a time since I take them outside for light, but then the mid day heat cooks them...


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

The Dude1 said:


> I had a 46 gallon bowfront that I covered into a paludarium with azureus dart frogs (blue and black ones). It was a journey. Like starting off with your first java fern in your 10 gallon Betta tank. If you can swing it, do a mist king system from the start. It was tough.. some plants died and came back.. others just died.. some worked in one area, but no where else for some inexplicable reason. My only suggestion is don't reinvent the wheel upon start up. Start with plants that have a high likelihood of success by what you have seen others do... not by what you think should happen. Java moss is great for ground type areas (But the PDF's don't like walking on it) where as Christmas moss is great some vertical areas that stay damp. DEFINATELY post a detailed journal. I'm getting into terrariums/paludariums again. Ive got a little bowl that I'm trying to grow some terrestrial mosses (That I collected in NC) in and make something for the dining room table. Not having much luck so I may go to java moss.
> Those pencilfish come in? You haven't posted pics yet. Maybe you could include some shots of your emersed grow outs? I'm having a hell of a time since I take them outside for light, but then the mid day heat cooks them...




Well, I never had a 10g Betta tank to add a java fern into. When I got back into the hobby & first into planted tank I got a 55. lol. I guess that’s why my first viv is gonna be a 120. Ha! I’m certainly not going to attempt to reinvent the wheel, not with something that large. Part of the reason I think this build will take a while is that I will need to buy all the pieces and parts, including a mist king. If I was sticking with the 50g (25x18x25) I wouldn’t worry about that as much but something this size it becomes more of a necessity. I’ve got a lot more research to do on plants, including things like mosses. 

The pencilfish didn’t come in, there was an error on the wholesaler’s fish list & they didn’t have them in stock. 

As far as emersed set ups go, they don’t need that kind of light(the sun) they don’t even need t5s. Go with a cheap cfl in a clamp on light fixture or some t8s. I use T5HO fixtures and my BML bc that’s what I’ve got. I know a bunch of people that don’t use anything that fancy/expensive. Hell, some people use t8 fixtures over white plastic box lids, not even clear! I do need to update my emersed thread though. 


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

I know it has been a while since I’ve updated this thread. I’ve sold off some of the killifish species, as well as most of the Gertrude’s blue eye rainbowfish. The rest of the Gertrude’s will be gone soon.

I did recently pick up about 25 more Elassoma okefenokees for a new tank and to sell to some friends in different places. I think most of them will end up in my Mr. Aqua 60p, which I would like to set up as a low tech planted tank. 

I also grabbed a pair of Aphyosemion campomaanense campomaanense ABK 07-181 that I plan to do some actual breeding with. They are a gorgeous pair of fish. I’m not sure which tanks I’ll use for this, probably a combo of 5.5gals and and shoeboxes. 

Ordered an ADA 60-F, the original plan is to make it a brackish water tank for Hawaiian Volcano Shrimp, a couple hermit crabs, a couple pieces of macro algae & a nerite snail. If that continues to be the plan by the time it gets here, that’s probably what’ll end up being. Other options are a riparium, or who knows. 


I’ve been collecting plants for the 120viv. I haven’t made it much further along than a dozen different plants, which are currently in a variety of tanks. I’ve turned a 5.5g into a little terrarium and increased the number of emersed tanks currently running. I’ve been lucky enough to be included in some import orders so I’ve got a bunch of sweet plants. Also picked up a bunch of manzanita. 





























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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Do you have those outside getting sunlight or indoors? I have heard over and over again about people growing plants emersed for faster growth and propagation... I sure haven't seen that. While my emersed stuff seems to be healthy and growing.. they certainly aren't growing like they are in my high tech tanks! 
What species are you growing out for the viv? Will it be high humidity where you might be able to grow some anubias and buce?? I'm very interested in growing out large portions of bucephelandra for my display tanks and I think those rhizome plants would look killer in a viv.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Updates??


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Well, this update is gonna be a lot of pics. I’ve been working on growing out a few species from Kiri tissue culture: Crypt. affinis ‘green’, C. tonkinensis (probably kubotae), C. nurii ‘red metallic’, Glosso, Marsilea angustifolia, Buce ‘Ghost 2015’, Buce ‘Brownie black’, Buce ‘brownie purple, Buce ‘brownie blue’, Anubias nana ‘white’, Hygro. ‘Flaming’, & Echinodorus aflame. I think that’s it. I’ve got a variety of mosses growing out as well. On the non-TC grow out side of things, I’ve picked up a ton of Crypts, Buce, & other aroids like Lagenandra, Homalomena, & Piptospatha. 



















AFA C. spiralis ‘Tiger’



























Emersed tanks are now: 55, 40b, 20l, 10, 5.5 & about 10 Tupperware shoe boxes. Currently I do need to rearrange a few things though. The 5.5 & about half of the 10 are terrestrial plants for the viv. I’ve also got some of the Buce sp. growing out specifically for the viv as well, including ‘Dark Skeleton King’ and ‘Diana Green’ which is one of the largest Buce I’ve found so far. 










The smaller Diana Green.


















Aridarum ‘mini blue’









Carica Fern









Homalomena humilis ‘red’









Larger B. sp. ‘Diana Green’ in the bottom left corner. Those are 3.5” square pots.









Cryptocoryne nurii ’Rosen Maiden’ 









C. pontederiifolia ‘Red Lips’, C. ferruginea ‘tiger’, and C. sp. ‘Poseidon’









I’ll have to get better pics of the filmy ferns. 

I’ve sold off a few fish species & bought a couple more, plus some Tangerine Tigers which should be here in a couple days. 



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## vanish (Apr 21, 2014)

What is your maintenance routine on those emmersed tanks?


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

The ferns you are growing out for the vivarium.... are they all high humidity species?? Would they always need to be covered? Do you know species names or common names? I hadn't thought of dividing plants into individual pots inside the Tupperware. Keep plants to their own areas.
Where you buces emersed grown? If not, are they losing their submerged grown leaves? Do new leaves look similar to older leaves?


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

vanish said:


> What is your maintenance routine on those emmersed tanks?




It just depends on the tank. Several of them get the water mostly removed & replaced with new RO water to keep the tds a specific level. The 40b I try to maintain a TDS of <200ppm, others aren’t as low, while some are <50ppm if I’m paying attention. 

Beyond that I try to mist daily to help maintain humidity. 

While there is a heater in most tanks I don’t mess with it often. 


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

The Dude1 said:


> The ferns you are growing out for the vivarium.... are they all high humidity species?? Would they always need to be covered? Do you know species names or common names? I hadn't thought of dividing plants into individual pots inside the Tupperware. Keep plants to their own areas.
> Where you buces emersed grown? If not, are they losing their submerged grown leaves? Do new leaves look similar to older leaves?




Currently, most of the ferns I’ve got require quite high humidity levels. While I do have a few terrestrial ferns, most of what I’ve got are filmy ferns such as the different Crepidomanes species & various locations. The Crepidomanes ferns are mostly known from locations & leaf type, such as sp. “Central Borneo Big Leaf.” These aren’t plants you’re going to find around often though. 

Crepidomanes sp. ‘Timah Type 1’ -Singapore area. 









Crepidomanes sp. ‘Big Leaf Central Borneo’









I did recently get Davallia parvula & D. repens. They’re both looking good. 

Begonia minutifolia 


















I’ll get to the Buce question later today. 


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Went to an event hosted by the Southern California Killifish Club, their annual Fish Fry, this last weekend with a group of people from the Arizona Rivulin Keepers(ARK) at Ron Harlen's housein Fallbrook, CA. There were a ton of fish available, a few plants, along with 30-40 people and tons of food and drink to be had. I bought a few different species of fish and some plants, all non aquatic, except for a couple bags of Java Moss. The fish I was most excited to purchase was a pair of Pseudomugil luminatus, which I actually got both pairs that were available but let a buddy have one. The other fish were mostly killifish. Aphyosemion australe 'Harlen's Burnt Orange', Aphyosemion sp. ntoba fcco 2013/15, and Nematolebias whitei (I'll edit with exact location later). The last fish I purchased was a group of Red White and Blue Guppies, which I got so that I would always have some guppy fry to feed to my apistos! lol. I ended up with several pairs of fish which were purchased by ARK and I am holding until the next meeting. So I've got two pairs of the burnt orange, and three or four of the whitei.

















































Ron also keeps a number of Apistogramma species. He gave me a female Apistogramma erythrura, to go with my remaining male, since he killed the second male. I was excited to get a female of this species. Ron goes to South America on collecting trips fairly regularly. He had a couple tanks full of an unidentified Apistogramma species that was collected in Columbia in 2015 that I found to be quite interesting. At the end of the day, I asked him if I could purchase a pair of them and he gave me a pair! He was just glad someone was excited to about the fish. Ron thinks that these may end up in the steindachneri-group. I put them in the 10g that I recently rescaped for my tangerine tigers. The TTs got pulled and tossed into a different tank with my Pseudomugil gertrudae. I'll have to add pics later as I've gotta get to the greenhouse and get some guayule planted.




















C. cordata ‘Thailand’


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

You get the coolest stuff. I need to get involved with some clubs. What size tanks are you using for Killies?


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

The Dude1 said:


> You get the coolest stuff. I need to get involved with some clubs. What size tanks are you using for Killies?




My killies are in a variety of sizes. Ranging from a medium size kritter Keeper up to 5.5g tanks. It really just depends on the species & their age. Like the A. australe ‘burnt orange’ are fairly young adults & I have two pairs in a medium KK. My large kritter keeper has three pairs of adult Nematolebias whitei living in there for a few weeks. I’ve had other killies that I wouldn’t even want to split the sexes up into their own large KK alone. 

Dude, there’s gotta be clubs near you. The AGA has a great list of clubs, same with the AKA. There’s another website that has all the clubs broken down by state. I don’t remember the name, but just google Aquarium clubs by state. I forget where you are or I’d make some suggestions. 


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## f1sleepy (May 1, 2016)

Very cool! I live right down the road from Fallbrook and had no idea. I'll have to look Ron up some day.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I'm in Pinellas county in Florida. Basically Tampa area.


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

The Dude1 said:


> I'm in Pinellas county in Florida. Basically Tampa area.




Well, you’re in luck then... these are the two main ones I know of in your area. Through them you might find that there are more than just these two. 

Tampa Bay Aquarium Society
https://tbas1.com

Suncoast Killifish Society
http://www.sks1.com



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## FischAutoTechGarten (Jul 11, 2003)

Just speechless pouring over these threads. So much variety!


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