# My Low Tech Plan



## babystarz (Sep 25, 2012)

If you haven't worked with dirt/soil in a planted tank before just be aware that most types (including the Miracle Gro Organic, at least as of 3 years ago when I was using it) contain small sticks and possibly chicken waste and other organic composted materials. This means that sifting the dirt through a sieve is a must, and you will still most likely see a spike in ammonia from the tiny pieces the sieve doesn't catch as your tank is settling in. Go slow initially and consider not planting the tank right away to allow time for that spike to happen without melting your plants. I made the mistake of adding plants immediately, thinking since I was adding so many they would be able to handle changing water parameters. I was wrong! Even with a solid cap on the soil, this stuff will end up in the water inevitably.

Foreground carpet plants never worked out well for me in a Walstad type setup but floating plants and taller plants were happy. You could try a mat of a low light moss in the foreground, I think java moss could work out but you will probably still see it trying to grow upward toward the light.


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

36 x 12 x 24 is not the best footprint because the surface area to total volume ratio is high. A shalower tank with a larger footprint would give you a leg up, imho. Another approach might be to fill the tank ~ half way and use reparian plants.
Have fun!


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## SeaBee1 (May 3, 2018)

babystarz said:


> If you haven't worked with dirt/soil in a planted tank before just be aware that most types (including the Miracle Gro Organic, at least as of 3 years ago when I was using it) contain small sticks and possibly chicken waste and other organic composted materials. This means that sifting the dirt through a sieve is a must, and you will still most likely see a spike in ammonia from the tiny pieces the sieve doesn't catch as your tank is settling in. Go slow initially and consider not planting the tank right away to allow time for that spike to happen without melting your plants. I made the mistake of adding plants immediately, thinking since I was adding so many they would be able to handle changing water parameters. I was wrong! Even with a solid cap on the soil, this stuff will end up in the water inevitably.
> 
> Foreground carpet plants never worked out well for me in a Walstad type setup but floating plants and taller plants were happy. You could try a mat of a low light moss in the foreground, I think java moss could work out but you will probably still see it trying to grow upward toward the light.


Babystarz, thank you for the reply! I have never worked with a dirted tank, so this will be a new venture for me. Walstad does recommend sifting the soil. I am prepared for the ammonia spike, but Walstad believes the plants can handle it. Your experience is different? Delaying the planting is no problem for me, but the wifey is gonna wanna see some green stuff pretty soon :grin2: I'll have to figure out how to deflect her...

I'll give the java moss a looksee...

Thank you for the advice!

CB


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## SeaBee1 (May 3, 2018)

OVT said:


> 36 x 12 x 24 is not the best footprint because the surface area to total volume ratio is high. A shalower tank with a larger footprint would give you a leg up, imho. Another approach might be to fill the tank ~ half way and use reparian plants.
> Have fun!


Hello OVT! Thank you for the reply! Yes, even Walstad recommends a lower tank profile. Unfortunately, it is the tank I have on hand, and I am not in a position to get another one. I'll give this a shot, understanding it may not be ideal. My real concern is that the light will have a pretty long water column to penetrate. This thread will likely be my "journal thread" to document my adventure, unless I post it over in the Journal Forum. We shall see...

Wife and I will probably do the initial prep in a few days.

Best regards!

CB


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## MultiTankGuy (Jan 8, 2018)

Sea...

I tried the Walstad method of tank keeping many years ago and found it only worked for a few months. A much better kind of tank is a "Terraphyte" tank. Any organic material you use to sustain the plants will lose nutrients after a few months. Then you'll need to use a supplement to keep the plants healthy. The set up is messy and it's easy to disturb the dirt and then, you have debris floating around in the water.

If you're interested in keeping an extremely low maintenance tank, that's better than the Walstad method, please let me know. There's even a means of keeping a "no water change version". I keep several of the "Terraphyte" tanks and have for quite a few years. I can give you all the steps needed for set up and maintenance.

M


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## Proteus01 (Mar 12, 2017)

Sifting or not is up to you. I think the bigger pieces help the longevity of the soil. Parts that are really likely to float, though, are better removed. Maybe hand-sift, as a compromise? Or, just net out the floaters after some time. 
Ammonia levels can be handled with water changes during the ‘settling in’ phase, I believe. 
The tank size is perhaps not ideal for a planted tank. So, maybe you can set up some cool rock structures or driftwood that raises the plants up higher. Some crypts down low will probably be just fine, and may fill in well enough to satisfy your carpet craving. 
Playing more frequently with your tank, checking levels, inspecting plants for new growth, moving the light schedule around, etc is part of the joy for the ‘experimental’ tanks. Finding what isn’t working and getting it turned around is very satisfying. 
Enjoy.


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## SeaBee1 (May 3, 2018)

MultiTankGuy said:


> Sea...
> 
> I tried the Walstad method of tank keeping many years ago and found it only worked for a few months. A much better kind of tank is a "Terraphyte" tank. Any organic material you use to sustain the plants will lose nutrients after a few months. Then you'll need to use a supplement to keep the plants healthy. The set up is messy and it's easy to disturb the dirt and then, you have debris floating around in the water.
> 
> ...


I would be very interested, M! Since I am in the planning phase right now, 'twould be better to make any changes up front than when the tank is filled with stuff! You can PM me or post in thread, as maybe others would benefit...

Best regards!

CB


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## SeaBee1 (May 3, 2018)

Proteus01 said:


> Sifting or not is up to you. I think the bigger pieces help the longevity of the soil. Parts that are really likely to float, though, are better removed. Maybe hand-sift, as a compromise? Or, just net out the floaters after some time.
> Ammonia levels can be handled with water changes during the ‘settling in’ phase, I believe.
> The tank size is perhaps not ideal for a planted tank. So, maybe you can set up some cool rock structures or driftwood that raises the plants up higher. Some crypts down low will probably be just fine, and may fill in well enough to satisfy your carpet craving.
> Playing more frequently with your tank, checking levels, inspecting plants for new growth, moving the light schedule around, etc is part of the joy for the ‘experimental’ tanks. Finding what isn’t working and getting it turned around is very satisfying.
> Enjoy.


Proteus, thank you for the reply, very helpful! I hadn't thought of crypts for carpeting, and I will need to do a bunch of study to see what will even have a hint of a chance in this less than ideal situation.

One of my concerns is my lighting. The light I have on hand that I mention in the OP is not ideal for plant growth, it for showing fish. The tank was purchased years ago, originally for showing deep bodied fish such as angel fish, thus its height. And I plan to stock with Angels once again, once the tank settles. If the tank needs a better, plant friendly light, I am open to that. I have a "BeamsWork DA 90" in my Amazon wish list, just in case I need it.

Comments anyone? Would I be better off with getting the new light, considering the tank dimensions?

Thanks!

CB


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## MultiTankGuy (Jan 8, 2018)

CB...

Very good. I'll post the steps for putting together a Terraphyte" type system in a separate thread. If there's some interest, I'll go through the steps.

M


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## babystarz (Sep 25, 2012)

SeaBee1 said:


> Babystarz, thank you for the reply! I have never worked with a dirted tank, so this will be a new venture for me. Walstad does recommend sifting the soil. I am prepared for the ammonia spike, but Walstad believes the plants can handle it. Your experience is different? Delaying the planting is no problem for me, but the wifey is gonna wanna see some green stuff pretty soon :grin2: I'll have to figure out how to deflect her...
> 
> I'll give the java moss a looksee...
> 
> ...


Yes, what I think happened was that too many nutrients were released too quickly for the plants to keep up with (I really suspect it was the chicken waste), even with water changes I couldn't get on top of it because I had to go to work, and would inevitably come home to a disaster for the first two weeks. It just wore on the plants more than I expected. If I did this over again, I would have held off on adding the plants until week 2 when the ammonia issue had resolved. Now, I can't say this would happen to everyone, maybe something I did with the substrate cap caused the accelerated nutrient release. It was worst on days 5-9 if I recall correctly so if you do want to start with the plants in, keep a close eye on your parameters at about the week mark (in my case I didn't even need to test first to see that something really funky was happening).


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## SeaBee1 (May 3, 2018)

MultiTankGuy said:


> CB...
> 
> Very good. I'll post the steps for putting together a Terraphyte" type system in a separate thread. If there's some interest, I'll go through the steps.
> 
> M


Thank you Sir! I will be looking for it!

CB

Bump:


babystarz said:


> Yes, what I think happened was that too many nutrients were released too quickly for the plants to keep up with (I really suspect it was the chicken waste), even with water changes I couldn't get on top of it because I had to go to work, and would inevitably come home to a disaster for the first two weeks. It just wore on the plants more than I expected. If I did this over again, I would have held off on adding the plants until week 2 when the ammonia issue had resolved. Now, I can't say this would happen to everyone, maybe something I did with the substrate cap caused the accelerated nutrient release. It was worst on days 5-9 if I recall correctly so if you do want to start with the plants in, keep a close eye on your parameters at about the week mark (in my case I didn't even need to test first to see that something really funky was happening).


Holy Smoke... chicken waste???? I did not realize the MG organic had that in it... man, I have a lot to learn!

Lots to think about...

CB


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## babystarz (Sep 25, 2012)

SeaBee1 said:


> Holy Smoke... chicken waste???? I did not realize the MG organic had that in it... man, I have a lot to learn!
> 
> Lots to think about...
> 
> CB


Haha yes, they call it "pasteurized poultry litter" and "natural fertilizer" on the package but those are just slightly more marketable terms for chicken sh*t :wink2:


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## SeaBee1 (May 3, 2018)

babystarz said:


> Haha yes, they call it "pasteurized poultry litter" and "natural fertilizer" on the package but those are just slightly more marketable terms for chicken sh*t :wink2:


LOL, yeah, ain't marketing special! I may get my wife to do the 'scaping...

ME: Yeah Sweetie, I'm pressed for time... think you can build the substrate, and do the aquasacping?
HER: Sure, why not? Ewww! why does it smell so bad?
ME: Ummm... well it's organic... you know... all natural, ORGANIC dirt...
HER: I think I've read about that...


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## Oughtsix (Apr 8, 2011)

Your basic description is similar the the 35g hex tank I currently have setup. It has been running for about a year now. About 3" - 4" of Miracle grow organic potting soil capped with small gravel. My 35G hex is 24" tall and does not have much surface area. I am using a sump which provides a lot of O2 exchange. The Penguin HOB you are planning on should give you considerably more O2 exchange than a canister which should be beneficial... but not as much as a wet / dry sump.

I remember reading about the Walstad method when starting our tank but the details escape my memory. My plant fertilizer and amendment routine is very simple... NOTHING. No CO2. No trace minerals added. No Seachem prime added. No anything. For lighting I am using an old hood from a salt water tank with a day light bulb and a arctinic (sp) bulb. I do a 50% water change about once a month or so. The biggest problem I have with my 35g is keeping all the plants trimmed back, they grow like crazy. Our guppy population has exploded.

For plants we started with an ebay easy grow special plant package to heavily plant the tank. Most of these plants have been replaced with slower growing plants we acquired from this board. The initial easy grow plants were just growing too fast. I do think the fast growing beginner plant package was a great way to start and get the aquarium settled... rapidly pulling in the nitrates the potting soil releases.

In the first month or two we did have a hair algae outbreak. I treated it with drug store hydrogen-peroxide and it hasn't returned. I assume the initial release of nitrates for the soil before the plants had been established and growing profusely lead to the hair algae invasion. Now that the plants are established and growing vigorously I think they out compete the algae.

I think you have a sound plan. I don't think your tank will be the 100% most optimal configuration (neither is mine) but I do believe it will be very successful. Good luck!


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## SeaBee1 (May 3, 2018)

Oughtsix said:


> Your basic description is similar the the 35g hex tank I currently have setup. It has been running for about a year now. About 3" - 4" of Miracle grow organic potting soil capped with small gravel. My 35G hex is 24" tall and does not have much surface area. I am using a sump which provides a lot of O2 exchange. The Penguin HOB you are planning on should give you considerably more O2 exchange than a canister which should be beneficial... but not as much as a wet / dry sump.
> 
> I remember reading about the Walstad method when starting our tank but the details escape my memory. My plant fertilizer and amendment routine is very simple... NOTHING. No CO2. No trace minerals added. No Seachem prime added. No anything. For lighting I am using an old hood from a salt water tank with a day light bulb and a arctinic (sp) bulb. I do a 50% water change about once a month or so. The biggest problem I have with my 35g is keeping all the plants trimmed back, they grow like crazy. Our guppy population has exploded.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the response Oughtsix! Your experience confirms something I remember reading years ago about planting tanks - plant heavily to begin with and get things established as quickly as possible to get nitrates under control. Plants are your friend!

Next steps for me will be to clean the tank and prep it for planting...

Best regards!

CB


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## SeaBee1 (May 3, 2018)

So... I got my API test kits the other day, and I did the initial tap water check. I checked KH, GH, and PH. Parameters as follows:

KH = 125.3 ppm
GH = 214.8 ppm
PH = 8.2

Some questions... should I make any other checks, such as ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate on my tap water at this point? Also, the KH, GH, and PH seem a bit high. I think I understand that these higher numbers may mean a more stable water quality, however, should some water softening be considered for the more common plants I will be considering? Or leave it alone and let the chips fall where they may?

I will be checking the tap water over several days in order to get a decent average, so more info may be on the way. Not sure anything much will change, but I think averaging over several days will give a better picture.

CB


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## Beccanne (May 4, 2018)

If you are doing Walstad, I really do urge you to sift the soil well. Get out as much of the debris as you can, use a solid cap over the soil and be VERY careful when filling and planting. I was quite disappointed in my attempt at Walstad method because the dirt got disturbed and was all over the place. Even when the cap was still pretty much in place, tannins were a huge problem for me and the tank looked like river water. Purigen pouches and water changes didn't do much to the tannin problem... 

Anyway, my whole point of this is: be very careful, or wifey likely won't be satisfied  My husband looked at the tank and thought "oh it's fine, looks like a natural environment..." Clearly, I was not happy with a murky river tank


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## SeaBee1 (May 3, 2018)

Yes Ma'am, I have read in other posts about the need to sift the soil and use a good cap. Knowledge is power! The success of my endeavor will be more about SWMBO's acceptance than my efforts. Tannins from the soil will be a concern that I did not think about. In one of my former tanks (no plants) I had some driftwood that leached tannins big time and wifey was decidedly UNHAPPY with the look. I thought it looked great! I anticipate an adventure for sure...

Happy tanks!

CB


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## SeaBee1 (May 3, 2018)

Second day of testing tap water:

KH = 125.3
GH = 214.8
PH = 8.0


No difference from day one, except a .2 drop in PH, insignificant at this point I think. I will test again in a couple of days, and if the readings appear the same, I will consider my tap water as stable.

I still have the question... do I need to test my tap for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates, or just do those once I get the tank up and running? And should I consider a water softener for the more common plants I would use in a Walstad tank?

Thanks!

CB


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