# DIY LED Build for a 125g (Finished and SUCCESS!! Includes PAR data)



## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

chayos00 said:


> So with all this said, anyone have any thoughts or suggestions?


Stay away from the high voltage driver by meanwell.

Controller 12 bit 5v PWM @ StevesLEDs.com $70 free shipping.
Fully functional, most likely will not find for less.
HurricaneX I believe, think it has 16 channels available.

BlueAcro.com 4-driver boards @ @23 each, run each Vero18 on it's own driver. $46 total for drivers.
Buy them @ 1000mA version.

Amazon.com 36VDC power supply 400watt $36, gives you some room to add colors later.

Your LEDs & sink are @ $225 already.

New total of $377

You will have a controller with features.
Lower safer voltage levels, and room to grow for adding colors.
Just my opinion.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Yea, I second the large driver 1)puts all your eggs in one basket and 2)no flexibility..i.e multi-channel ore color addition..

Each Vero can run off one LDD-H.. And all can be run w/ a 36V power supply.. In this case, and to account for future expansion, probably around 10A-ish..
Personally I'd drive the Vero's @700mA-ish
1000mA is fine as well..700mA may save you from fans..

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...=sGAEpiMZZMt5PRBMPTWcaTWeSxpmncu0L/IWPcfVhi4=

10 for $52..($43.84 for 8.. might as well go 10 at this point. ) 
2 of these..
LDD-H-4S Driver Board - Rapid LED
$32...
Why? Has removable pull down jumpers..
ps
$40
Mean Well LRS-350-36 - Rapid LED
$115 w/ infinite flexibility..
now you can run 8 channels or 1 channel any type of LED (well common types)


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Thank you both for the input! I wasn't sure about the driver and being able to dim the tank, I thought that mean well one was adjustable, but I didn't look at the specs of it. I see now it's a constant current driver now, not adjustable. Plus I saw it as a simpler design of just one component to control instead of multiple smaller items. For additional color circuits I was thinking of the smaller mean well drivers if I added more, but I gather with the items listed these will allow me more freedom.

When I get back on my PC tomorrow I'll look into the driver setups you guys mentioned to get a better understanding of them.

So the number of the Vero's doesn't seem too much? The heatsink too massive? Figured having at least 1" tall fins would be better than some of their cheaper smaller ones. 

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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Your Meanwell one is adjustable.. and everything talked about implied constant current drivers..
Your orig. is just "all in one" (AC to DC conversion and then regulation) vs power supply (ac-dc conversion) + driver (regulation)

"our" suggestions don't really save money, just adds abilities..

Heat sinks are a whole "art" in themselves..

As to "too much".. well 


> The "warm white" leds are only being driven at 300ma or 10% of their rated current capacity. The "cool whites" are at 1000ma or 33% of capacity. With 6 cooling fans and 6' of aluminum, the heat sink never even feels slightly warm to the touch.


6 foot 200gal tank..12 Vero 18's..








http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/20-diy/603658-o2surpluss-6-new-led-build.html


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Again thank you guys for the info so far. I've done some looking and comparing of items. I've composed the following cost for things.

LDD setup:
Mean Well LRS-350-36 - 36V @ 350W $37.62
Mean Well LDD-700H $52 for 10 (2 spares) or $43.84 for 8
LDD-H-4S Driver Board $32 for 2. Or do I really need the fans to cool things with this and instead get LDD-H-4 Driver Board $30 for 2. 
If I go with the 4S driver board then I would need 1 or 2 of these (I put down the 9v output one for quieter running fans if I used them) Mean Well SCW05B-09 Or the 12v version Mean Well SCW05B-12 Both are $16.32 each.
So a total of $154.26 for 10 drivers and 2 12v or 9v controllers.
Or $111.46 with the 8 drivers and the H-4 driver boards. I could always use a 12v wall wart style PSU for fans, or one of my old CPU PSU's I have.

Looks like LDD's have a number of different current drivers I could pick too! 300ma, 350ma, 500ma, 600ma, 700ma, 1000ma, 1200ma, & 1500ma. I was thinking probably something in the 500-700ma range to keep the lumens under control for a low - medium setup. 

BlueArco Setup:
https://blueacro.com/acroiq
AcroIQ LED Driver - Basic 4 channel (PWM only) - 700ma version @ $45.98 for 2
Or AcroIQ MicroDriver with adjustable 400-1000ma @ $59.96 for 4
Mean Well LRS-350-36 - 36V @ 350W $37.62
So a total of $83.60 w/4 channel driver or $97.58 for the adjustable current one. 

SteveLED's Setup w/LDD's:
LDD DRIVER ARRAY - 8X DRIVERS - $11.99
Mean Well LDD-700H $52 for 10 (2 spares) or $43.84 for 8
Mean Well LRS-350-36 - 36V @ 350W $37.62
Total w/8 drivers - $93.45

For an LED controller, this seems to have lots of features and isn't too bad of a price.
HURRICANEX LED CONTROLLER $69.99
Not sure if this would be needed for control of all 8 vs a 4 channel setup doing each front and back LED as a pair. HURRICANEX 10V PWM CONVERTER - 16 CHANNEL VERSION! $36.99


Down to decision time! Cost vs functionality vs reliability. So between the LDD, BlueArco, and SteveLED's besides cost is there any reason why you would go with one versus the other? To me it seems they all have PWM control for dimming.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

chayos00 said:


> Down to decision time! Cost vs functionality vs reliability. So between the LDD, BlueArco, and SteveLED's besides cost is there any reason why you would go with one versus the other? To me it seems they all have PWM control for dimming.


Glad to see the research, many do not investigate all options.:grin2:

No PWM converter is needed all LDD's or blueAcro are 5V PWM.
LDD's on boards do not need any cooling, blueAcro drivers will need heatsink mounting.

HurricaneX is only 4 channels.
Can you divide your 8 Veros into 4 channels, most definitely.
One PWM output can drive @ least 4 or more LDD's.
If adding colors is in the future, use two channels for white and the other 2 for 2 colors.

Get LDD1000's, why not? You will have PWM dimming.
Vero18 I think are tested @ 1000mA.

All of the suggested drivers will need a controller for dimming.

Fan control, this is where I skimp to the utmost.
I use a wallwart 12VDC power supply and usually run two fans in series to keep them very quiet.
I have been know to put 4 in series as long as heatsink runs cool.
Run them on a $4 HDepot timer during light cycle.

Hope this helps!

I am also sure JeffK will chime in too.

Something to think about(MTS) multi-tank syndrome.
If you are like me I have several tanks running from 1 controller.
I bought the StormX that has 16 channels for like $92 and a case for $10.
If more tanks and LED builds are in the future, something to consider.

Does your tank have a canopy?
The reason I ask is I have 5 heatsinks w/fans and a 12VDC plug in.
I offered in this threadhttp://www.plantedtank.net/forums/9617905-post25.html
Now these won't stretch the length of your tank but each would hold two Vero18's I recon.
They are free as long as someone pays shipping.
Just thinking about saving a buck if you have a way to mount them.

JeffK do you think these heatsinks would accommodate the Vero's?


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Glad to see the research, many do not investigate all options.:grin2:
> 
> No PWM converter is needed all LDD's or blueAcro are 5V PWM.
> LDD's on boards do not need any cooling, blueAcro drivers will need heatsink mounting.
> ...


Oh I'm a research-a-holic! LOL Part of what took my stand build was analysis paralysis as I call it! Takes me forever to make a decision on doing something as I'm always over researching things till I get so deep, I can't decide what to do.....

I saw the StormX and the Hurricane and features seemed similar except for price, I'm sure I obviously missed something like you mentioned with the 12 more channels of the Storm, but I wasn't sure how the HurricaneX converter for 16 channels worked into it all, but I guess if it did make it 16 channels that's about the same price as the storm. The part about the controllers that interests me is the sunrise/sunset feature and having something to control the dimming/brightness of the system to accommodate whatever plants I end up with and their lighting needs. Plus one day be able to drive them bright enough to handle a CO2 setup that I would like to do. 

For the "drivers" you would keep to the higher rated amperage ones and just use the dimming abilities of a driver to keep the lights lower as needed vs keeping them lower through current limitation of the LDD's?

The MTS thing, I know my wife's already put her foot down on that and having any more tanks in the den besides the 125g, she already wants me to get rid of the 10g on the desk when I get the big one up. Oh the one thing I forgot to add is I built my stand to handle a 6'x2' tank for one day to be able to upgrade to! LOL So these lights may have to be upgraded for that when the time comes. 

I have a 15" or so tall canopy, if you click on my 125g build in my signature you will get to see it. I'm currently trying to think of what I would need to do to mount a heatsink in the space in the canopy. I do have a few buddies who weld, so I may have one of them make me a bracket that would mount to the back of the stand and angle out over the tank to hold something. Nothing in the works yet, as I'm trying to get the setup holding water first. Which I'm working on plumbing this weekend for the sump. 


Sorry for all the questions, as you can probably tell I'm a techie guy who likes researching to make sure I'm getting what I need the first time and not the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, ..... etc time. I learned a long time ago a cheap setup isn't a good lasting one, well.... that all started with buying tools for me. LOL


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

chayos00 said:


> HurricaneX converter for 16 channels worked into it all, but I guess if it did make it 16 channels that's about the same price as the storm. The part about the controllers that interests me is the sunrise/sunset feature and having something to control the dimming/brightness of the system to accommodate whatever plants I end up with and their lighting needs. Plus one day be able to drive them bright enough to handle a CO2 setup that I would like to do.
> 
> For the "drivers" you would keep to the higher rated amperage ones and just use the dimming abilities of a driver to keep the lights lower as needed vs keeping them lower through current limitation of the LDD's?
> 
> I have a 15" or so tall canopy, I'm currently trying to think of what I would need to do to mount a heatsink in the space in the canopy. I do have a few buddies who weld, so I may have one of them make me a bracket that would mount to the back of the stand and angle out over the tank to hold something


HurricaneX converter converts the 5V PWM to 10V PWM, we have not specified anything in your build that requires 10V PWM. I don't know where the 16 channel thing comes from. Unless it is made to work with controllers other than the HurricaneX 4 channel.

Sunrise & Sunset and per channel dimming is really awesome. With 12 bit dimming lighting transitions never seem stepped, they are smooth and unnoticed. The cloud cover and lightning I turned off in the StormX.

Keeping the higher rated LDD's will be fine, especially if your future could move to CO2.
Dimming via PWM fixes all this and doesn't alter the spectrum when dimmed.

Check out the thread I mentioned for the heatsinks.
They are available for just the cost of shipping. 2 Vero18's could mount on each/fan required.
Hoping @jeffkrol will chime in with heatsink thoughts/ideas.
They would save you money if you want them.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Amount of heat sinking is just a product of current and diode characteristics.. Pretty much a hit and miss thing..
Pretty sure the massive experience ones are generally overkill for most normal needed led density for freshwater lighting..

Consider what is considered (and supposedly tested) a good passive heat sink for a single Vero18:










Key for passive cooling is surface area, wide channels for air, black anodized and contact area and mass..6 ounces of al per chip

Active cooling, well trial and error is really best..

I have a hard time justifying large linear heat sinks for COB's Seems like a waste, though not sure if there is a real cost differential..

https://northerngrowlights.com/products/sst105passive-heatsink-kit?variant=20678863684

This is for a Vero29..but 8 would still be close to $100.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Maryland Guppy said:


> The reason I ask is I have 5 heatsinks w/fans and a 12VDC plug in.
> I offered in this threadhttp://www.plantedtank.net/forums/9617905-post25.html
> Now these won't stretch the length of your tank but each would hold two Vero18's I recon.
> They are free as long as someone pays shipping.
> ...


 @jeffkrol I am offering these for the cost of shipping.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

chayos00 said:


> Again thank you guys for the info so far. I've done some looking and comparing of items. I've composed the following cost for things.
> 
> LDD setup:
> Mean Well LRS-350-36 - 36V @ 350W $37.62
> ...


Thank you guys for the info on the heat sink aspect, but that part is my least concern with this build if I go with the 6" x 62" setup with 1" tall fans. I feel that setup would work best for for what I'm going with as that way the heatsink would be usable with any future changes to an LED setup. 

Thank you for the offer of the heatsinks you have, but I think I would rather stick with one that is just a single heatsink to deal with hanging due to my canopy design idea. 

My biggest concern is the drivers for the lights themselves. Like I posted in what I quoted on here there seems to be 3 ways I could go but not really sure which ones would be the least hassle. It sounds like the blue Arco would need heatsinks on the drivers which I would probably stay away from and go with one of the LDD setups. But would the SteveLED setup be better or the RapidLED one be better? I guess if one is untested by either of you the one used and confirmed working would be best. 

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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

You just mount the drivers to the LED heat sink in the case of the acros'.. not really an issue..

Personally I'd stick w/ the ldd-s for one simple reason.. Can take a higher voltage so you can run more smaller diodes off one channel.
not a terribly great reason.
I do like adj. drivers esp. w/ COB's but that is also fairly "me" specific..


AcroIQ requires soldering wires onto the pwm contact and one mA


All the acro are "open" units unlike the potted LDD's..another consideration..
Meanswells and a "board" takes up a lot more space
Flip a coin..

The ideal driver for Vero's would be adjustable from, say, 300mA to 2000mA.. and capable of handling up to 56V to cover almost all Vero types..


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

If this was my DIY light I would choose the LDD's and an 8up board.
LDD's run cool to the touch and can be enclosed in just about any project box etc...


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Thank you guys these were the responses I was hoping for about which you guys would use. But yeah these LDD drivers would be great if they could have a current adjuster in them! I saw someone's build where they used a small PC tower to install all the parts of the LED power and control systems. I might have to find a small cheap tower as well to mount all this stuff in an enclosed space. 

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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

chayos00 said:


> Thank you guys these were the responses I was hoping for about which you guys would use.


I would get this from o2surplus..


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

jeffkrol said:


> I would get this from o2surplus..


What is that? A different custom LED driver board he makes? Does he have a website or just a user on this forum?

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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Just a user.. PM him..I suspect w/ the Holidays it may take a bit..
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/2...brainstorming-multichip-vero18-help-me-3.html


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Message away to him. On the plus side, I got some funds from Christmas money! I've done some calculating on the heatsink abilities, it seems that the one I have linked that is about 6" may run about 120°F or so based on a heatsink calculator I found online. Wish those things didn't cost so much being so large!


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

jeffkrol said:


> Just a user.. PM him..I suspect w/ the Holidays it may take a bit..
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/2...brainstorming-multichip-vero18-help-me-3.html


Waiting sucks! LOL Wish he would take a look at my PM. It's making me debate about just getting another one of the LDD PCB's, but I'd honestly rather wait to see what he's got. I really want to order parts, but I don't know what I can safely order without getting some sort of a duplicate or something.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

You could order everything but drivers..and in the case of LDD's and driver board..

All the rest is "compatible" ..Keep the power supply below 37V for now..


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

jeffkrol said:


> You could order everything but drivers..and in the case of LDD's and driver board..
> 
> All the rest is "compatible" ..Keep the power supply below 37V for now..


Alright sounds good. PSU, LED's, and heatsink. Also after looking at my canopy and trying to think of how I would mount it, I'll probably have to get one around 70-72" long. 

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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

So looks like my LED budget has expanded. I'm now wondering if I should add some red, blue, green or lime to the setup......


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Okay, so doing some color LED research...

These make it easy as it's a all in one tri color chip. 8 Chips total here.
3-UP TRISTAR - SEPERATE WIRING - ANTIDISCO 
LED Color #1: Royal Blue - Wavelength - 445nm-450nm
LED Color #2: Deep Red- Wavelength -660nm-670nm
LED Color #3: Lime - Wavelength - 567nm - peak, broad full spectrum from 490nm - 750nm
Total $82.54

Or 8 of each color of the CREE's?
CREE XT-E Royal Blue LED - 450-465nm wavelength
Philips Luxeon Rebel ES Lime LED - 566-569nm wavelength
CREE XP-E Photo Red (660nm high bin) LED - 650-670nm wavelength
Grand Total: $78.64

Any thoughts? The Phillips claim to be better than the CREE LED's, if it's based upon how their home light bulbs, those CREE ones didn't last.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

chayos00 said:


> Okay, so doing some color LED research...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


going all Luxeon at steves only $64 plus shipping..

What made you pick lime?


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

jeffkrol said:


> going all Luxeon at steves only $64 plus shipping..
> 
> What made you pick lime?


I saw on one of the 3 builds I liked to talk about lime. As well the lime is able to put out more lumens vs green. Also saw on a research paper about photosynthesis using a 550nm light if you're gonna use green and this was "close" to it. But I could always skip it if really isn't more than a "color tuning" color. 

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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

chayos00 said:


> I saw on one of the 3 builds I liked to talk about lime. As well the lime is able to put out more lumens vs green. Also saw on a research paper about photosynthesis using a 550nm light if you're gonna use green and this was "close" to it. But I could always skip it if really isn't more than a "color tuning" color.
> 
> Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk


Yes, the "green light can penetrate deeper into leaf tissue" type research.

Not sure how well that pertains to such thin skinned aquatic plants.
Secondly it only seem to work best under high white light conditions.. I suspect at these conditions algae control would be problematic..

You are correct in the fact that green LED's have poor efficiencies..

It won't surprise too many here that I will say that "if" you want to add green, might as well add blue-green (cyan)..
I'd also skip the royal blue for "regular blue" since all the white LED's use Royal blue pumps. Point is there is not a shortage of it.. 
Now reg. blue and cyan are in short supply and do hit the Carotenoid absorption bands..








Citrus College - Chapter 6: Photosynthesis


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

jeffkrol said:


> Yes, the "green light can penetrate deeper into leaf tissue" type research.
> 
> Not sure how well that pertains to such thin skinned aquatic plants.
> Secondly it only seem to work best under high white light conditions.. I suspect at these conditions algae control would be problematic..
> ...


So it seems Phillips doesn't have a regular blue, just cool blue or royal blue. 

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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

*DIY LED Build for a 125g (Almost done with the build)*

470-480nm...peak transmission band of the "cool" blue..

















Most white LED's have a huge "hole" between 460-525.. and low in red around 625-ish..and no "violet" at all really.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Alright, so I made a spreadsheet from a possible setup I may be going with to track exact costs. I did put some extra LED's on the list for colors, Lime, Deep Red, Cyan, Cool Blue, & Royal Blue (as moonlights). So with just the Vero's and no extra colors $486.28. If I went with all the colors I listed above it would be $673.90. What blows is 4 Finnex 24/7 @ 36" would be about $490 from Amazon, but not sure how adjustable it would be for power, or if it would even be the smart way to go instead. LOL I do like the fact the DIY would give you similar abilities but all the adjustability that you can't get if you wanted to change out LED's in the future.

I don't really know about the proper ratio for the different LEDs that would be needed for color, as I can't really find a spectrum graph that I can "build all these colors together" to get a proper wavelength analysis, I saw some spectra website that was linked on another thread, but I couldn't quite figure out how to make it work for what I was thinking to analyse the lights together. For the colors, I was thinking 2 deep red at each Vero, so 16 total. Then 1 at each Vero of the other colors if I did them, so 8 total for the others. Except the Royal Blue, I would do 1 between each pair of Vero's so that way there's 4 total going across the tank for "moonlight" and only have it come on before "sunrise" and after "sunset." I know I was told no for the Lime, but looking at the wavelength chart, that one really does have a wide range of 490nm-700nm with a peak at 560nm, whereas all the others have a short 20-30nm range, so it really has me curious. Besides the Lime's would only cost $22.

So here's my question, as the different colored LED's have different forward voltage requirements at max current (0.7A or 1A), if I'm using a 36V PSU, how will that affect the circuit. (It's been too long since I've done electronic circuits, I went to school for it, but haven't used it in like 10 years.) I would like to have the different colored LED's on a single color channel circuit to allow each color to be dimmed as a whole. Basing the current numbers of the Vero's at 0.5A and the colored LED's at their max rating all @ 36V that should put me at about 313W total, so just below the max of the PSU of 350W, there's a 450W Meanwell, but it's double in price @ $66 vs the 350w @ $36.

I uploaded the spreadsheet to my Google Drive, but the link below should allow you to view what I've picked along with their prices. DIY LED Setup.xlsx

Also, has anyone ever used any sort of clear finish to "seal" the exposed wires/solder points on their LED's to waterproof things? I did recently come across liquid electrical tape that's working in a swamp cooler I have that used to keep tripping the GFI in my garage when the exposed capacitor wiring got damp. 

I measured my tank with my heatsink mounting idea and looks like I will be going with a longer strip to "hang" it in my canopy, so it will now be 70" long. Basically going to make a "shelf" on each side inside the canopy with 2.5" wide wood that I will secure inside and have it where I can move the strip forward and backwards with needing to work on the tank.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Not a lot of time but a few things.
First a lot of this is opinion not cast in stone facts:


> I would like to have the different colored LED's on a single color channel circuit to allow each color to be dimmed as a whole.


Sort of defeats the purpose of the colors..
Might as well stick w/ a mix of warm white and cool white cob's w/ high CRI.
Using the fairly expensive Luminous devices "studio" cob's will pretty well cover all spectrums w/out the need for any "colors"


> as I can't really find a spectrum graph that I can "build all these colors together"


SPECTRA
Fairly useable if you do some assumptions"
Like if using 3W diodes use 1W x 3 if available..
For COBs I'd just find say CREE at the color temp and a number equal to the COB wattage.
Crude but should get you a "realistic expectation" Wish they'd update it a bit for newer COB's


> So here's my question, as the different colored LED's have different forward voltage requirements at max current (0.7A or 1A), if I'm using a 36V PSU, how will that affect the circuit.


Doesn't matter..LDD and related drivers do all the work.. Basically step down voltage regulators..



> Basically going to make a "shelf" on each side inside the canopy with 2.5" wide


did that on the 40 only at 1/2 since I needed to open the glass top



> I know I was told no for the Lime


no not no but a why..  You want to add lime and cyan and blue fine.. 
Lime were developed to replace inefficent narrow band greens..
Lime LED's are dubious - Lighting Forum - Nano-Reef.com Forums


> Lime doesn't replace cyan, as it does not cover that spectra well. There are pigments that still need that spectra to express.


and again, white LED's have no shortage of output in the "lime" region..
Any emissions below .2 is relatively low.










> Also, has anyone ever used any sort of clear finish to "seal" the exposed wires/solder points on their LED's to waterproof things?


Glass covers..



> Basing the current numbers of the Vero's at 0.5A and the colored LED's at their max rating all @ 36V that should put me at about 313W total,


There are easy and right ways for this of course..
Say you have 10 cool blue on an ldd700 ..Forward Voltage is 3.27V @ 700ma (2.28W each)
so you have 32.7V @.7A = 22.89W

Point is to calculate the true load on the ps based on the V(f) at your chosen drive current
Sloppy way and to guarantee meeting the ps just use diode designated wattage.. (3W) (3X10= 30W)
One reason is if one changes drivers in the future,say "upgrade" channel to 1000mA driver..
I will hopefully have room.
doesn't matter much since LED's are easy on power supplies..but they will be driven below driver rating if not met.
In other words ps could care less but your diodes will run "dimmer" than expected.. 


Calculate the "real way" if cheating way pushes you a little over ps max..


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

jeffkrol said:


> Not a lot of time but a few things.
> First a lot of this is opinion not cast in stone facts:
> 
> Sort of defeats the purpose of the colors..
> ...




Okay, I'm getting more and more confused with what to do the more and more I keep trying to figure this out.... :crying::crying:

So the 5600k's by themselves or with a 50/50 mix of 5600 & 2700's seems to be the easiest option of going with, as well as cheapest. 

So the site you linked me to is the one I was thinking, I just didn't figure out how to get the individual lights until just now. So I tried playing around with using the Cree & Philips Cool whites and 2700k and both seem to not make the graph happy, nor does playing with adding any colors..... 

The first graph attached is for the 50/50 mix. 

Just going to say, I have a problem with trying to analyse options and then getting as I call it "analysis paralysis." 

So I was never looking at the 50/50 mix, as I didn't quite like the yellowish coloring in some of the builds I saw with the vero's, like this picture. From: gus6464's DIY Bridgelux Vero 18 LED build









Okay after some further tweaking and looking around on the graph, I noticed the arrows in the low 400nm range. I turned on the generic LED's on there and as soon as I turned on 1 of the 400, 410, & 420nm UV led's the graph was happy and gave me check marks. So that is the second graph, but 4 of each of the SemiLED's listed below. I tried the graph with just the Cool Whites, but then it yelled in the high 400 to low 500nm range. So looks like with the 50/50 mix and some UV's.

So I found some on Rapid LED LEDs - Ultraviolet/Violet UV - Rapid LED 
SemiLEDs True Violet UV LED (400-410nm)
SemiLEDs Violet UV LED (410-420nm)
SemiLEDs Hyper Violet UV LED (420-430nm)
I could get 4 of each for each Vero mounting spot for $51.

Or they have these: Total Spectrum Violet UV LED Two chips with 400-410nm wavelength and two chips with 410-420nm wavelength. Or 4 of these @ $20 each and they are $80.

So, forget the colors mix. Go for 50/50 5600k & 2700K's plus the UV's? Does this sound like a better plan?


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## flyfshrmn98 (Oct 20, 2011)

If I were you, I would get the bluefish mini to control everything. 6 channels with complete customization and ability to control everything over wifi. I have one and love it so far. Have a warm white, cool white, red, blue, cyan, and violet channel. O2 also has a board that accepts the bluefish mini and ldd drivers and I think might even have one with his drivers built onto the board. The bluefish is only $99, not $130 that you have listed, and ldd drivers are $5 apiece, cheap.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Okay I updated the spreadsheet again using "version 2" with the 50/50 mix and UV's. Plus I added Royal Blues for "moonlights", but is this a good color to use for that?

DIY LED Setup.xlsx You will see two tabs at the bottom, Version 1 & Version 2, #2 is the one that is updated to this setup.

Current Grand Total shall be $628.03.

Bump:


flyfshrmn98 said:


> If I were you, I would get the bluefish mini to control everything. 6 channels with complete customization and ability to control everything over wifi. I have one and love it so far. Have a warm white, cool white, red, blue, cyan, and violet channel. O2 also has a board that accepts the bluefish mini and ldd drivers and I think might even have one with his drivers built onto the board. The bluefish is only $99, not $130 that you have listed, and ldd drivers are $5 apiece, cheap.


Reason why I'm not looking at the Bluefish mini is due to the fact it has 6 channels and not 16 as the StormX does, I want to be able to control all 8 of the Vero's individually for dimming purposes or for sunrise/sunset. At least that's how I understand them to work. I don't have any sort of a controller yet, but is it correct to assume each channel has it's own settings for sunrise/sunset or dimming purposes?

Also the $130, includes the case and 16 jumper cables, not sure if the $8 of jumper cables would be needed from them.


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## flyfshrmn98 (Oct 20, 2011)

chayos00 said:


> Bump:
> 
> Reason why I'm not looking at the Bluefish mini is due to the fact it has 6 channels and not 16 as the StormX does, I want to be able to control all 8 of the Vero's individually for dimming purposes or for sunrise/sunset. At least that's how I understand them to work. I don't have any sort of a controller yet, but is it correct to assume each channel has it's own settings for sunrise/sunset or dimming purposes?
> 
> Also the $130, includes the case and 16 jumper cables, not sure if the $8 of jumper cables would be needed from them.


I can't speak to the storm but with the mini, yes, each channel is completely controllable sunrise/sunset, midday, and other times.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

flyfshrmn98 said:


> I can't speak to the storm but with the mini, yes, each channel is completely controllable sunrise/sunset, midday, and other times.


Thank you for confirming that for me! I suspect it should be the same, but I'll have to do more research for that controller then. 

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

chayos00 said:


> Thank you for confirming that for me! I suspect it should be the same, but I'll have to do more research for that controller then.
> 
> Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk


So I went over the StormX manual and it looks to be able control each channel separately. 

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

StormX has 1 sunrise/sunset setting and ramp times for both.
Each channel has day and night PWM setting.

Each channel does not have a sunrise/sunset setting.
It is a minor downfall so all my tanks have the same photoperiod.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Maryland Guppy said:


> StormX has 1 sunrise/sunset setting and ramp times for both.
> Each channel has day and night PWM setting.
> 
> Each channel does not have a sunrise/sunset setting.
> It is a minor downfall so all my tanks have the same photoperiod.


Well bummer! I was hoping to be able to turn on my LED's one at a time across the tank to simulate a sunrise/sunset like effect. Do like a left to right slow turn on/off while they ramp up to daylight settings. 

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Running version 2.6, just checked.
Sunrise and sunset I have set to manual.
1 ramp time seems to work for both rise and set.

16 channels @ 12 bit is a lot though.
If one is not greedy with channels per tank, and combines drivers.
Large amount of tanks could be ran for those with "MTS".

I run multiple tanks and that is the only bummer.
All must have same rise and set.
7 hour photoperiod for me on all tanks.

Maybe there is a firmware upgrade?
Pretty much set and forget for me though.

My new build is very different.
4 equally positioned dual pucks in the canopy.
4 different PAR areas to accommodate different species.
Ready to change canopies now but haven't had the right evening/time yet.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

As it's one tank that I would be running this on, I would be okay with 1 general sunrise/sunset time. Just to make sure we are on the same page as what I'm talking about. I attached a graph showing what I was thinking for a startup. So starting with like channel 1 through 8, I would want some sort of a delay between each one starting, say 2 minutes or so. So across the tank it would take 16 minutes for the 8 Vero's to start up 1 by one across the tank and then ramp up each channel to 100% or whatever level I find works best. Then all stay at the high level after sunrise. Then come sunset, do the same again, ramp each one down and then shut them off over a 16 minute timespan to simulate sunset. Since I don't have the space to get MTS, I think I would be fine with the single photoperiod as it's just one tank. The second attachment I included is for the manual, it shows a ramp delay for different PWM channels am I correct in reading that this would give me the left to right sunrise/sunset?

As to the firmware, I downloaded it to see if there was some sort of readme file and I found they are on v2.8. Also listed is a revision history inside, as I have pasted below.

################################################################################################
#### Firmware for Storm X LED Controller 5/21/2015 V2.8 ########################################
#### Distributed under GNU GPL V3 The GNU General Public License v3.0 - GNU Project - Free Software Foundation #########################
#### ####
#################################### Copyright 2015 Coralux LLC ################################
#################################### Registration TXUOO1865413 #################################
################################################################################################
#### Requires editing Wire.h and twi.h to increase BUFFER_LENGTH 68 ############################
#### For best lightning synchronization, use a max of six PWM outputs per lightning channel ####
################################################################################################
################################################################################################
# Much of the code here builds off of existing libraries contributed by the dedicated maker ####
# community. Proper attribution is given to the best of my knowledge. Please contact me for ####
# any oversights thereof. ######################################################################
################################################################################################

#### REVISION HISTORY ##########################################################################
5/21/2015 Fixed a bug that caused a brief flash of light at midnight for some users
5/12/2015 Added code to prevent erroneous high temperature displayed at startup
3/21/2015 Fixed an intermittent LCD redraw issue for those with temp probes
9/9/2014 Added a leading zero to fix temperature display bug for decimal T's less than 1/10 deg
8/11/2014 Added check to prevent users from having conflicting DayPWM and NightPWM settings
8/11/2014 Squashed bug for short Ramp Times that resulted in Sim (-1%) error
7/31/2014 Improved LCD resource management, no more "tearing" of the screen for some users.
3/8/2014 Changed a few port settings to follow Atmel's guidelines for unused IO pins
1/27/2014 User in NZ reports that GMT Offset should go up to +13 (was limited to +12)
10/3/2013 Replaced pinMode(6,OUTPUT) & analogWrite(6,lcdbrightness) with direct port
manipulation equivalents, saving appx 200 bytes and increasing loop speed
10/7/2013 Fixed Moonphase bug that resulted in moonphases always being applied
10/7/2013 Added 25 KHz Fan Control to pins D9, D10, compatible with 4-wire PWM Fans with 
separate fan power supply (typically 12V)
10/7/2013 Completely reworked temperature sensing code for efficiency and compactness
Added temperature display mode toggle for degrees C or F
10/31 Added Simulate mode to jog through the sunrise-sunset profile
11/3 Fixed a problem with the Daylight Savings Time compensation (was off by a few days)
################################################################################################


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## flyfshrmn98 (Oct 20, 2011)

Those Vero's are so bright, I don't really know if half the tank would be darker and the other half brighter like you are wanting. It might work like you are thinking, worth a try. I have my sunrise come on with cooler colors that ramp into midday sun, then ramp down with more reds for sunset. Doesn't serve any purpose other than looking cool


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

flyfshrmn98 said:


> Those Vero's are so bright, I don't really know if half the tank would be darker and the other half brighter like you are wanting. It might work like you are thinking, worth a try. I have my sunrise come on with cooler colors that ramp into midday sun, then ramp down with more reds for sunset. Doesn't serve any purpose other than looking cool


Yeah that's what I like, the cool factor LOL. Plus on my current 10g, I notice all my fish dart into hiding as soon as the planted+ on it blasts into life. Was thinking the sunrise wouldn't be such a blasting of light to them. Also as I'm going with a lower light tank, I was going to run the lamps at a lower current and a local guy has a PAR meter so I can see what current I actually need to run, I'm thinking in the 400-500ma range versus the brighter 1A range that some run it at. The O2Surplus 8 driver board has a built in adjustability of about 200-1000ma.

One day I may play with some colors, but I think for now I'm going to keep it the 50/50 of 5600k & 2700k veros with some UV's. But still waiting to see what others think about that mix from my previous posts.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Well the spectrum thing is a bit personal.. But in the spirit of seeing someone go way outside the box I'm going to plug these COB's as far superior specially (aguable, but def. w/ the 80CRI Veros, haven't matched them to the Decors though..) to the veros..Efficiency is a bit lower though
35-50% more expensive though..but you can eliminate all colors but purple..








http://www.luminus.com/products/Luminus_Xnova_Studio_Datasheet.pdf

$20.20 x 8 = $161.60...vs $103.16


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

jeffkrol said:


> Well the spectrum thing is a bit personal.. But in the spirit of seeing someone go way outside the box I'm going to plug these COB's as far superior specially (aguable, but def. w/ the 80CRI Veros, haven't matched them to the Decors though..) to the veros..Efficiency is a bit lower though
> 35-50% more expensive though..but you can eliminate all colors but purple..
> 
> 
> ...


Took a bit of looking, as I was looking for the 3 step ones, but those don't seem to be stocked anywhere. However the 2 step ones are. But like you said that's going to drive the price up a bit more. The only thing I'm not liking is is that it seems that they are driving those at a higher current, however I don't see their test info vs what the output lumens is. I do appreciate the suggestion! Based on seeing the graph happy as far as the different items for photosynthesis I think I may start with this 50/50 mix with the UV's and if I don't like the color and want to tune it a bit more, it looks like the reds and the blues are where it changes the color K the most.

So back to a quick question about moonlights, those seem to be the 450nm range LED's right? I was thinking about 4 across the tank, does this sound about right? I know it's just for show, but hey.... why not LOL


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

chayos00 said:


> I'm thinking in the 400-500ma range versus the brighter 1A range that some run it at. The O2Surplus 8 driver board has a built in adjustability of about 200-1000ma.


I would run them @ their rated/tested current to guarantee no spectrum shift.
With PWM dimming it will not matter.


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## Fissure (Jun 29, 2014)

Interesting read, though I would recomend you skipping the vero 18s and go for twice the amount of Vero 13s, this mainly to even out the light spread and avoid spotlight zones in the tank making the par really uneven. This could be troublesome for you since you are not using co2 either. Also less leds means more issues with plants and roots etc blocking a lot of light.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Maryland Guppy said:


> I would run them @ their rated/tested current to guarantee no spectrum shift.
> With PWM dimming it will not matter.


Yeah I'll end up playing around with the setup to see what it does overall. I was just hoping to be able to current control the power to give me max dimming abilities, but once I have it in hand and built that will tell me what I need to know.



Fissure said:


> Interesting read, though I would recommend you skipping the vero 18s and go for twice the amount of Vero 13s, this mainly to even out the light spread and avoid spotlight zones in the tank making the par really uneven. This could be troublesome for you since you are not using co2 either. Also less leds means more issues with plants and roots etc blocking a lot of light.


I do plan on spreading out the Vero's on the light bar. I attached a picture try and demonstrate what I was planning to try, this is where I'd put the Vero's. With the lights having a 120° output, I would think these COB's across a 6" light bar ought to give a decent spread. I would like the 8.4" wide light bar, but it's $100-120 more depending upon if I got the one with the slots or not. However looking at the build of O2Surplus he's got his in center and he's got a 220g tank that's wider than my 125g and it doesn't look like he's got shadow issues on his build. However I won't have the box of 4 that he does in the middle.

Here's two shots from his build.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

They were clustered to better blend to 2 tones..
your spread wil be influenced more by raising and lowering..
6" off the water line will cover a 21" surface area..

As a side note, and if I remeber correctly, they were run at like 30% on the ww 40-50% on the cw @ 1000mA .. but you will need to check.

Point is COBS like that were not driven high..

AFAICT color shifts occur as diode temp increases..so little worry w/ 500mA drivers. Technically they will perform "better" (match rated K) at that than at 1000mA and a hotter core temp.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

jeffkrol said:


> They were clustered to better blend to 2 tones..
> your spread wil be influenced more by raising and lowering..
> 6" off the water line will cover a 21" surface area..
> 
> ...


Yeah his were run at a lower ma like 300-400ma for the lower K lights and 1A for the higher K lights. I will be mounting these about 6-8" above the water line.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

I suggest keeping to "pair" close and centered..At 8" you can light a 28" diameter circle w/ one cob..
your first COB could be 14" from the end..

so as to the heat sink.. say length of tank minus 24"...a fudge factor (12" per side b4 a COB) roughly


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

jeffkrol said:


> I suggest keeping to "pair" close and centered..At 8" you can light a 28" diameter circle w/ one cob..
> your first COB could be 14" from the end..
> 
> so as to the heat sink.. say length of tank minus 24"...a fudge factor (12" per side b4 a COB) roughly


Yeah I wondered due to the different K ratings if I might have to do that, guess I will be.

Bump: Alright everyone, I just pulled the trigger and ordered the 50/50 5600k & 2700K lights, UV's, PSU, heatsink, controller, and I messaged O2Surplus to see about getting 2 8up boards.

Edit: I've noticed this twice now. It adds the "Bump" and the second post in a row.... weird. Never seen any other forums do that.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

chayos00 said:


> Yeah I wondered due to the different K ratings if I might have to do that, guess I will be.
> 
> Bump: Alright everyone, I just pulled the trigger and ordered the 50/50 5600k & 2700K lights, UV's, PSU, heatsink, controller, and I messaged O2Surplus to see about getting 2 8up boards.
> 
> Edit: I've noticed this twice now. It adds the "Bump" and the second post in a row.... weird. Never seen any other forums do that.



it is a weird Firefox bug..
The "fix" is go to "Help":Firefox troubleshooting..
Then click on "Folder".
Scroll down to 
mimeTypes.rdf.

Delete

Firefox will rebuild..

PLEASE look it up first.. I'm not going to be responsible for this...

But I've done it a few times..and updated Firefox.
Sometimes works sometimes comes back...


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

jeffkrol said:


> it is a weird Firefox bug..
> The "fix" is go to "Help":Firefox troubleshooting..
> Then click on "Folder".
> Scroll down to
> ...


I actually use chrome as my primary browser. LOL

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk


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## Fissure (Jun 29, 2014)

Well I am just trying to share my experiences with these leds. I am convinced the vero18s are overkill for most tanks and 13s or even 10s are better suited. Just more of them instead. With the 18s you are also restricting yourself with aquascaping. Like placing roots that go vertical or stem plants etc under a spot will block it and or damage the plants if ran to strong. The par/light intensity under one of these leds are extreme the closer you get to the surface. Also makes it hard to dial in a good light level. This can ofc be alleviated with raising the fixture a good amount but that generally generates other issues like unwanted light spread in the room.

Bump:


chayos00 said:


> Took a bit of looking, as I was looking for the 3 step ones, but those don't seem to be stocked anywhere. However the 2 step ones are. But like you said that's going to drive the price up a bit more. The only thing I'm not liking is is that it seems that they are driving those at a higher current, however I don't see their test info vs what the output lumens is. I do appreciate the suggestion! Based on seeing the graph happy as far as the different items for photosynthesis I think I may start with this 50/50 mix with the UV's and if I don't like the color and want to tune it a bit more, it looks like the reds and the blues are where it changes the color K the most.
> 
> So back to a quick question about moonlights, those seem to be the 450nm range LED's right? I was thinking about 4 across the tank, does this sound about right? I know it's just for show, but hey.... why not LOL


Those would be really nice in a 500mA version instead, looking for something smaller currently than the vero18s. Wanted to try the Vero 6500K gen7s but they seem to be impossible to get a hold of if ordering less than 100 pcs. Shame high CRI and colder light dont go well together :/


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Fissure said:


> Well I am just trying to share my experiences with these leds. I am convinced the vero18s are overkill for most tanks and 13s or even 10s are better suited. Just more of them instead. With the 18s you are also restricting yourself with aquascaping. Like placing roots that go vertical or stem plants etc under a spot will block it and or damage the plants if ran to strong. The par/light intensity under one of these leds are extreme the closer you get to the surface. Also makes it hard to dial in a good light level. This can ofc be alleviated with raising the fixture a good amount but that generally generates other issues like unwanted light spread in the room.
> 
> Bump:
> 
> Those would be really nice in a 500mA version instead, looking for something smaller currently than the vero18s. Wanted to try the Vero 6500K gen7s but they seem to be impossible to get a hold of if ordering less than 100 pcs. Shame high CRI and colder light dont go well together :/


Problem is most LED's are short on red and cyan and zero "violet".... Deficiency gets exaggerated w/ high K's.. 
also note that CRI is measured "differently" under high K and low K.. The target standard shifts. One is colors based on low k response. The other on daylight (sun) response..
If you use this you can see the issues:
SPECTRA
See Setup:advanced:standard light source for the options..

from a personal standpoint most lights at or over 6500k are unnecessary IF you have a high CRI rating.
The low CRI stark whites are err.. "artificial" and exaggerate some colors while dulling others..
Around 5000k and high CRI "looks" more stark white" than one would expect from viewing older low K 5000k diodes.. 
By 4000k though you start toning to yellow..but w/ high CRI all colors still "pop"..
I'll try and post some comparisons when I can match my "vision" response w/ what my camera sees.. It is quite different actually.

As a "teaser" this is a Sorra 5000k "vivid" COB.. Post processed slightly to match eyesight. Keep in mind gravel IS orangish..









4000k Luminous devices high CRI (not the studio version, but a related chip)









Personal opinions..


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## Fissure (Jun 29, 2014)

Well the color temp is most about personal preference. I did use the 4000K veros from the start but they were indeed very yellow. Anything white illuminated by this will be percieved tinted yellow. Some like this warmer light, I do not in a tank environment think it gets a bit to cozy and most greens get muddled togehter. The main reason for me wanting a cooler light is that when the tank is heavily planted the plants themself start reflecting light inside the tank and making everything more green than it "should" be. I like to offset this by chosing a cooler light. Though I do not like it when it starts to turn blue to the eye. I do think the 5700K veros are as close you will get to a natural midday sun white. And out of the tank to my eye they look "perfect" when pointed to something white like a paper. But like I said when used in a closed environment things quickly change. Then we have water misscoloration from roots etc further increasing the warmth of the percieved light. I would still say going anything below 5000K unless you actually like a yellow light is a bad idea. The first picture you posted looks good to me, personally I would probably like it a bit less warm. The second one is way to warm for me.
Going as low as 2700K sounds crazy to me but it is a matter of taste. I did not find the lower kelvin leds helped visibly with the reds either, pure deep red leds did though. 
But going to high with the kelvin will wash out colors as well just like you say. In my smaller tanks with some cheap chihiro lights the reds are washed out (rated 8000K).

When it comes to COBS it does not seem like we have that many options. The vero lineup is a really strong line and not to expensive either. Not sure that I like what they are doing currently with the gen.7. Generally lower CRI and more focus on delivering lower K leds.

I would deffo have ordered the 5600K ones you posted before to try them out (the luminus ones), nice CRI rating and the spectrum looks really good. But the smallest ones seem to be vero 18 size and to big for my taste now adays


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Greens get muddied due to the lack of cyan..
The soraa are violet based pumps.. But no separate chips so you need to disassemble to use. Adds some "white" punch.
cost isn't bad even considering all the "throw out".
Problem I found is they run "hot".. not sure why but it somewhat implies much better heat transfer out more than inefficiency.. 
so a good/bad thing.
Running removed chips over 350mA and passively cooled is "problematic". Well for me at least.. using passive 40W capable copper CPU cooler. It gets hot..with a capital H..

As to LD's studio.
yea 38W is the lowest chip but I'd run them at no more than 500mA (19W each)
78Lumens/watt is a bit low by current standards..
CVM-14-56-95-36-AC00-F2-2 Luminus Devices Inc. | Optoelectronics | DigiKey
So $13.85 for 19W... comparable to quality 3w pricing.. not to Vero's though


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## Fissure (Jun 29, 2014)

jeffkrol said:


> Greens get muddied due to the lack of cyan..
> The soraa are violet based pumps.. But no separate chips so you need to disassemble to use. Adds some "white" punch.
> cost isn't bad even considering all the "throw out".
> Problem I found is they run "hot".. not sure why but it somewhat implies much better heat transfer out more than inefficiency..
> ...


I never felt that using the cyan leds in my setup actually added anything of value to the color range, not as far as I could see anyways. Maybe there were to few of them?
Yeah 78 L/W makes it hard to justify that price. Shame there seems to be a real shortage of good cobs currently, atleast that fits what I am looking for. Been waiting forever for these gen.7s to become available but not sure that will even happend. Maybe just will have to settle for 5000K ones across the board but really don't want to go under my current 5700K leds.



Looked through their other products and actually their CXM-11: GEN3 looks like it might be right up my alley. 
Might try go all in on their 6500K ones or a 50/50 mix with the 6500K and 5000K LEDs. Nice 450mA current for hooking them up parallel in pairs. 15W rated as well so two of them roughly the same wattage as a single Vero 18.
Thanks for that jeff, helped me out a lot 

Edit : Meh looks like another line impossible to get a hold on in lower quantities.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

With and without cyan..
Subtle..


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## Fissure (Jun 29, 2014)

jeffkrol said:


> With and without cyan..
> Subtle..


Yup but noticable indeed.

Looking through digikey and I might try something new actually. Saw these
http://www.bridgelux.com/sites/default/files/resource_media/DS130 EB Series Datasheet Rev A_0.pdf

Might actually work nicely for me. Mixing 5700K,5000K and 4000K. Hooking these up in pairs of two in series would work with my 48V PSU would give a nice even spread of the light as well. In stock and only 7$ a piece at 160ish L/W.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Yea, saw those.. but w/out added colors I can't take the 80CRI anymore.. 
I've grown kind of snobby that way..


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Fissure said:


> Well I am just trying to share my experiences with these leds. I am convinced the vero18s are overkill for most tanks and 13s or even 10s are better suited. Just more of them instead. With the 18s you are also restricting yourself with aquascaping. Like placing roots that go vertical or stem plants etc under a spot will block it and or damage the plants if ran to strong. The par/light intensity under one of these leds are extreme the closer you get to the surface. Also makes it hard to dial in a good light level. This can ofc be alleviated with raising the fixture a good amount but that generally generates other issues like unwanted light spread in the room.


Thank you for the input about these Vero's, I do appreciate it. I looked into the 13, 10, & 8's but I pulled the trigger and ordered the 18's. However as time goes on I could always change them out if needed for how these lamps work. Part of me wishes I would've ordered the slotted heatsink but as it was quite a bit more just for 2" of and slots, I couldn't talk myself into it.


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## Fissure (Jun 29, 2014)

I am still not sure exactly how that CRI stuff works anyway. If for example mixing different color temps how does it affect the CRI can it never go above 80 in this case or can color temp mixing actually make it go higher?
But then again adding in colored leds to increase the CRI sounds really sketchy. How would one know what you end up with? Without expensive equipment it would at best be a guessing game. Only serious option sounds to me to be to chose a high CRI led and stick with that and one color temp. Can be hard to find good leds though apparently. 
The CRI don't bother me that much as long as the colors look vivid and real to my eye. But ofc there is no real reason not to chose the higest rated CRI led you can. Unless it is crazy more expensive ofc.
Think I will try these strips out just for fun. 26 of them, not sure how to mix the color temps though (in what ratios). Got two channels over for other colors. Planned on Blues and Reds but not sure. Maybe better with cyan instead of blues since like you mentioned earlier there is no real shortage of blues in leds usually. Deep reds might also be nice to have a peak in but they do tend to take over the spectrum quite fast. Gonna skip UVs entirely since my water always seems to be a little white tinted and UV leds just makes matters much worse.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Fissure said:


> I am still not sure exactly how that CRI stuff works anyway. If for example mixing different color temps how does it affect the CRI can it never go above 80 in this case or can color temp mixing actually make it go higher?
> But then again adding in colored leds to increase the CRI sounds really sketchy. How would one know what you end up with? Without expensive equipment it would at best be a guessing game. Only serious option sounds to me to be to chose a high CRI led and stick with that and one color temp. Can be hard to find good leds though apparently.
> The CRI don't bother me that much as long as the colors look vivid and real to my eye. But ofc there is no real reason not to chose the highest rated CRI led you can. Unless it is crazy more expensive ofc.
> Think I will try these strips out just for fun. 26 of them, not sure how to mix the color temps though (in what ratios). Got two channels over for other colors. Planned on Blues and Reds but not sure. Maybe better with cyan instead of blues since like you mentioned earlier there is no real shortage of blues in leds usually. Deep reds might also be nice to have a peak in but they do tend to take over the spectrum quite fast. Gonna skip UVs entirely since my water always seems to be a little white tinted and UV leds just makes matters much worse.


Just need to match this..










No, its kind of a guessing game...and is really "variable".. The main point, to me, is to start w/ a known CRI (I haven't always been this picky).
Maximizes color success chances
now besides that, playing w/ colors and tone is also fun.. such as sunrise/sunset type things..
As to plants each temp. spectrum has its pluses and minuses regarding plant utilization (thus my liking of blending) but plants will "adapt" to a particular spectrum. 
Choosing low K's to mix w/ high k's is just to average out the weaker spectral point.. Warm is low blue, cool is low red obviously.
BUT no matter what ones you pick there will be holes.. as stated.
Lastly low CRI, by definition, will not display colors "correctly"..which could or could not be important to one. 

As to the blue thing. Technically there is no shortage of Royal blue.. The band from blue through cyan is a bit weak.
The band from 630 to 700 as well..and the band from 460-ish to 400..
Problem w/ narrow band LED's..and for whites using "good enough" phosphors..

for fun.. an example..


> * MIXING LIST
> ----------------------------------------
> PhilipsLumileds Luxeon-A ANSI (2700K) [120°] x5
> PhilipsLumileds Luxeon-Rebel PLUS (5000K) [120°] x10
> ...


now that is at D65 (6500K) .. and almost perfect match for daylight (based on a "set" of color swatches) At D50 CRI is only 82 and 51 at 2865K standard..
SO TO BE completely honest.. Measuring CRI in led's w/ a lower temp than 4000-5000K SHIFTS the standard you are measuring against..but in our cases still is a more "even" presentation, since each standard is for a continuous light source..


> Remember CRI can only be determined by using a reference that has the same color temperature. A true spectral match to daylight would only occur in the 5000-6000k range From 2000K to 5000K, the reference source is the Black Body Radiator and above 5000K, it is an agreed upon form of daylight. Incandescent bulbs have a CRI rating of 100, yet are far from ideal for color rendering and matching. Why? With a color temperature of only 2700k they are far too weak at the blue end of the spectrum making it next to impossible to distiguish between various shades of blue. The CRI rating of 100 simply means that the 8 samples look exactly the same as they would under a black body radiator at 2700k.


Color Rendering Index (CRI) Explained

bottom line is a high CRI is not ideal in a low k emitter.. nor ideal in a high k emitter.. thus combining the 2.
but like I said, higher the K the evener the spectrum, in general..Less holes..
Color Rendering Index (CRI) Explained

when I first started building lights I found both high and low K lights, regardless of CRI (well all were probably low, wasn't fussy at the time) just didn't "do it"..by themselves.
found higher CRI emitters had more "pop" but still one K was not quite it either. ADMITTEDLY just my taste..
As to violets..they just seemed to mess w/ things..
YMMV...


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## Fissure (Jun 29, 2014)

jeffkrol said:


> No, its kind of a guessing game...and is really "variable".. The main point, to me, is to start w/ a known CRI (I haven't always been this picky).
> Maximizes color success chances
> now besides that, playing w/ colors and tone is also fun.. such as sunrise/sunset type things..
> As to plants each temp. spectrum has its pluses and minuses regarding plant utilization (thus my liking of blending) but plants will "adapt" to a particular spectrum.
> ...


Thanks, short and sweet. Explains the CRI issues quite well. Anyways ordered a good mix of 4000K, 5000K,5700K of those strips. Will be fun to see how they work out. Though only rated at 80CRI that will have to do. Hopefully it will end up looking nice to the eye.
Seem to be a nice strip with hopefully high quality leds mounted on them.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

More than one way to skin a catfish...


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

You guys and all this talk about playing with the color spectrum! Making me second guess myself and what I ordered..... One says 50/50 2700 & 5600 the other says just 5600 with some colors. Just makes me second guess myself about what I just ordered...... LOL Sure doesn't help a guy who over analyses things and starts second guessing himself.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

chayos00 said:


> You guys and all this talk about playing with the color spectrum! Making me second guess myself and what I ordered..... One says 50/50 2700 & 5600 the other says just 5600 with some colors. Just makes me second guess myself about what I just ordered...... LOL Sure doesn't help a guy who over analyses things and starts second guessing himself.


Naaah don't do that.. W/ dimming you got a range of 2700-5700K.. Covers everything really ..
Besides as a DIY you can always "add stuff". not like you are stuck w/ a manf. "ideal"...
W/ yours really running only 1 channel may just be good enough.. LOL..

W/ both on full you have a roughly effective K of 4150..roughly..
4633.. That would be at a 2:1 ratio of 5600/2700 so not a lot of difference. Can be accomplished by halving the drive current of the2700 channel.

Adding some blue/royal blue 3W emitters would allow you to "push up" the K rating..but see how you like it at first..

I rebuilt my first light 4 times.. not to scare you or anything..


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## O2surplus (Jan 31, 2010)

*DIY LED Build for a 125g (Almost done with the build)*

Don't worry too much about the choices you make today. Build your light the way you want it now. Then spend the next six months swearing to yourself that "this light is perfect, I wouldn't change a thing". Then start figuring out where you went wrong. There's no shame.... Jeff probably gets as many Christmas cards from DigiKey that I do. It's an addiction... You gotta feed it. Lol


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

O2surplus said:


> Then spend the next six months swearing to yourself that "this light is perfect, I wouldn't change a thing". Then start figuring out where you went wrong.


isn't that the truth.. 

OR a new "chip" comes out.. wink wink...


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## Fissure (Jun 29, 2014)

O2surplus said:


> Don't worry too much about the choices you make today. Build your light the way you want it now. *Then spend the next six months swearing to yourself that "this light is perfect, I wouldn't change a thing".* Then start figuring out where you went wrong. There's no shame.... Jeff probably gets as many Christmas cards from DigiKey that I do. It's an addiction... You gotta feed it. Lol


Lol been there. Digikey atleast have free shipping on pretty low sum orders


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

jeffkrol said:


> Naaah don't do that.. W/ dimming you got a range of 2700-5700K.. Covers everything really ..
> Besides as a DIY you can always "add stuff". not like you are stuck w/ a manf. "ideal"...
> W/ yours really running only 1 channel may just be good enough.. LOL..
> 
> ...


The one thing I'm used to is my Finnex Planted+ light. This is on a small planted 10g tank that I have on my desk. So based on the lamp that is on it, there's like a 2 to 1 ratio of white 7K leds to 660nm reds and I do have the blue moon lights on, which I can only assume are 450nm lights. Based on a rough guess of what I plugged in on Spectra it's 8550K for color. I do like the look of the lamp on the tank with tall of it's lights on as it gives it a nice color. Granted it grows algae like crazy, but I do have a piece of window screen cut just the right size to dim it some. Plus doing EI dosing and excel, but that doesn't seem to do anything and I'm about to run out of what's in my bottle. LOL

So anyways I'm concerned at the tone of the 50/50 mix being a bit lower in the K range. I forgot to order the 4 450nm blues but I'm wondering if I should up it to 8 and place them spread out on each side of the heatsink.



O2surplus said:


> Don't worry too much about the choices you make today. Build your light the way you want it now. Then spend the next six months swearing to yourself that "this light is perfect, I wouldn't change a thing". Then start figuring out where you went wrong. There's no shame.... Jeff probably gets as many Christmas cards from DigiKey that I do. It's an addiction... You gotta feed it. Lol


That's what I'm wondering now, if I should add any reds or blues to the mix. LOL



Fissure said:


> Lol been there. Digikey at least have free shipping on pretty low sum orders


Thank you guys for the support!


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

*DIY LED Build for a 125g (Almost done with the build)*

Yea that might be a bit too warm for what you are used to.
That said are you "stuck" on blue moonlight?
If not you could run 4 Actinic hybrid 10W (search term) chips in series off one 500mA driver and keep under needing more than 48V. Or 2 channels
$3 each
These are 6 10000k white 3 royal blue chips.. 
Makes fairly good moonlight also..

Note though, if you opt for this route most of these are China direct and would need to be ordered ASAP as chinese new years approaches. Things shut down for weeks..

Going back to just blues, it will probably take 4(RB)-8W(blue) per 24w(12 of each K) to sig. boost K value to the 7-8000 range..

This is there color btw:


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

jeffkrol said:


> Yea that might be a bit too warm for what you are used to.
> That said are you "stuck" on blue moonlight?
> If not you could run 4 Actinic hybrid 10W (search term) chips in series off one 500mA driver and keep under needing more than 48V. Or 2 channels
> $3 each
> ...


So after realizing the color was much warmer too by playing around on that spectrum website I went ahead with ordering some blues to add to bring up the color range. Plus after driving my daughter to daycare yesterday where the sunrise was perfect to see the sky going from a deep blue to a reddish orange to the natural daylight color I figured I wanted to be able to try and mimic that by getting some blues and reds to try that. I picked up 8 of each to ensure there's enough to get a spread across the tank. 

PHILIPS LUXEON Rebel ES Royal Blue LED
PHILIPS LUXEON ES CYAN 3 WATT LEDS
PHILIPS LUXEON ES TRUE COOL BLUE 3 WATT LEDS
PHILIPS LUXEON ES DEEP RED 3 WATT LEDS

For the moonlight aspect, IDK.... it's just what seems to be that everyone uses. I just searched those chips you mentioned and it looks like they are 10k lights with royal blues, so I could always try adding 10k lights to play around with later if I don't like it for now. 

I think for now I have more than what I probably need and could always sell some of them if they don't work out for me when I play around with a sample. 

I'm thinking I might try and drill and tap my heatsink so I can remove these lights in the future for repairs or replacements. Now I'm kinda wishing I would have gotten the larger slotted heatsink..... LOL oh well. Now just to find a drill press to drill the sink. I used to do that by a hand drill on some much thinner metal when I worked at a place doing electrical work for RainBirds water/irrigation pumping stations (think for golf courses and such) making the electrical cabinets for the control system.


Edit: after posting this I refreshed and saw your update with the pics. That looks nice! When trying to find out the wavelength of moonlight, they said since it's a reflection of daylight, it's the same color temp and not blue like they all say. Maybe I can find some 1-3w 10k LED's to mix in with my RB's. Driven real low of course.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Yea moonlight registers at like 4100-4150k.. but your eye sees it different due to the fact that at that low light levels not all eye photoreceptors are working at optimum.
In other words it "looks" bluer than it actually is..but not blue of course.
Just for fun:
https://www.lumec.com/newsletter/architect_06-10/the_sun_the_moon.html
https://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2006/28sep_strangemoonlight


> 2. If you stare at the gray landscape long enough, it turns blue. The best place to see this effect, called the "blueshift" or "Purkinje shift" after the 19th century scientist Johannes Purkinje who first described it, is in the countryside far from artificial lights. As your eyes become maximally dark adapted, the blue appears. Film producers often put a blue filter over the lens when filming night scenes to create a more natural feel, and artists add blue to paintings of nightscapes for the same reason. Yet if you look up at the full moon, it is certainly not blue. (Note: Fine ash from volcanoes or forest fires can turn moons blue, but that's another story.)


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

jeffkrol said:


> Yea moonlight registers at like 4100-4150k.. but your eye sees it different due to the fact that at that low light levels not all eye photoreceptors are working at optimum.
> In other words it "looks" bluer than it actually is..but not blue of course.
> Just for fun:
> https://www.lumec.com/newsletter/architect_06-10/the_sun_the_moon.html
> https://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2006/28sep_strangemoonlight


Those are pretty cool reads! Thanks for sharing those.



> The retina is like an organic digital camera with two kinds of pixels: rods and cones. Cones allow us to see colors (red roses) and fine details (words in a book), but they only work in bright light. After sunset, the rods take over.
> 
> Rods are marvelously sensitive (1000 times more so than cones) and are responsible for our night vision. According to some reports, rods can detect as little as a single photon of light! There's only one drawback: rods are color blind. Roses at night thus appear gray.


Didn't realize we only saw in monochromatic at night! Quite interesting.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Parts are starting to get here! Just got the Meanwell PSU delivered, that thing is tiny compared to what I thought it was going to be. Only about an inch thick. Where as I've got another high dollar PSU for a 24v and 5v output that's about 500w, but like 3-4 inches thick and loud too.

Edit: The Bridgelux lights are here too! Nice surprise for the evening too.

Edit #2 1/06/2017: The heatsink is here and the RapidLED's will be here tonight too.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

All parts are here now! I'm going to build the fixture after I get water running in my stand which will be soon, working on some plumbing and then will run it for a week or two in my garage to leak check the system before I bring it in the house.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Well I've got the tank cycling and I'm thinking about getting the light fixture going. I picked up a drill press to drill and tap 4-40 screws for mounting the electronics to the aluminum heat sink. I got the 15' floor mount porter cable drill press from Lowes. I decided that I didn't want to use a thermal epoxy on the light bar for ease of changing if needed. I had to order the hardware for the 4-40 x 3/8" button head screws and the #4 plastic washers. 

What size soldering iron do you guys suggest, as I've got ones where I can solder 12awg wires for my RC car stuff. What size iron do you guys suggest for the LED lights? Also do you guys have a good source for some say 18-22awg wire that multiple strand copper wires? Haven't done the math to figure out what would be best for the wire size. 

Okay, I just looked at the amp rating for the wire size. Looks like according to this site, I should be good (overkill) with 20-22awg wire. Wire Gauges - Current Ratings


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

chayos00 said:


> I decided that I didn't want to use a thermal epoxy on the light bar for ease of changing if needed.
> 
> I had to order the hardware for the 4-40 x 3/8" button head screws and the #4 plastic washers.
> 
> ...


I use silicone based thermal paste, the thermal adhesive can really suck during LED replacement.

I am presently using 4-40x1/4" socket head cap screws for mounting without washers.

Having several soldering pens my favorite is a 25watt Weller model for working with LED's.
I have a dual 15/30 watt, 15 is not enough heat and the 30 works fine too.
Keep a damp sponge nearby while soldering to keep the tip clean.
Solder for me is .032" 60/40 rosin core. Iron & solder & thermal paste can be had from Radio-Shack if need be.

Wire? While some may not agree with me?
I use 24AWG 25 conductor parallel printer cables up to 700mA.
After finding a chart where 24 gauge was suitable for up to 2 amps I figured 700mA was fine.
I also use DB25 connectors on the fixture housings so I can unplug and remove canopy.
Never had this cable get warm even using 16 conductors for 8 channels of lights.

Hope this helps in some way.

Ampacity chart I use http://hotwirefoamcutterinfo.com/Introduction_files/Ampacity.jpg


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Bought a Haako for this kind of work.. No regrets..
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Hakko-FX...9749&wl11=online&wl12=103062357&wl13=&veh=sem

Heatsink plaster (or related) is, as mentioned above, a silicone based heat transfer compound..
In between normal heatsink compound and heatsink 2 part epoxy..
https://www.solidrop.net/product/ti...-rubber-natural-cure-cpu-cooling-sealant.html


22-24ga is find for inter-wire but don't use it for power to string wire (much longer run).
you can get 20ga zipcord cheap on eek bay..

finding multi conductor (say 4-10) in other than like 18ga (thermostat wire, stiff and usually solid core) or then 24ga (CAT5,6 ect)
is practically impossible at "real" prices.
You can get cat6 in 23ga.. slightly better than 24ga..

most charts will not recommend more than about 1/2A @24ga for power transmission.
Many people do use it..
23ga is 729mA
Keep in mind much depends on wire length and this is determined by length to light plus return.
and most tables are ultra-conservative..
American Wire Gauge table and AWG Electrical Current Load Limits with skin depth frequencies and wire breaking strength

If I could find 10 conductor 20ga stranded copper I'd be in heaven

AS to screws, well this bugs me.. 4-40 are really too big for stars by 2-56 too small (head size)
Really need to go w/ the metric ones they are designed for.. but I don't

As to this table..
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/wire-gauges-d_419.html

I don't find it very useful. No mention of AC nor DC nor volts..
another one for comparison;
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/12-volt-wire-loss-chart-d_1689.html

To be honest I'm exactly sure of THE CORRECT answer.. just that if I can 20ga for power handling is "my" minimum..
If I could find 22-21 that would be fine too.


https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1230054-24-gauge-wire-capacity



> You can't determine a wire's current capacity unless you have several specs laid out for the situation first. For example; temperature, allowable voltage drop, allowable temperature rise of the wire, ambient temperature, # of conductors, insulation type, regulation/code/law governing the sizing, etc.
> 
> Change any of these and the current capacity can change too. For example, 22AWG wire can handle an incredible amount of current before melting. Using fiberglass insulation, it can run at several hundred degrees. So, for 22AWG wire, depending on the situation's requirements, you could have a capacity of only 0.25A (to hold down voltage drop, compensate for multiple conductors in a bundle, compensate for high ambient temperature, etc.) or you could have a capacity of 10A. All depends.
> 
> ...


http://www.electro-tech-online.com/threads/how-much-current-will-an-rs232-cable-handle.31245/


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Maryland Guppy said:


> I use silicone based thermal paste, the thermal adhesive can really suck during LED replacement.
> 
> I am presently using 4-40x1/4" socket head cap screws for mounting without washers.
> 
> ...


I'm looking at finding 20awg wire reels of 100' (red & black) for the LED wires, after looking at things. I found I do have radio shack 0.32" 60/40 rosin core solder. However I've found I do have a Weller WP35 (blue handled one) (I may find a WP25 iron instead of using the 35.) however I have a wide blunt tip for it, which I know I would need something more of a fine point. But I've got a wide flat tip for it. [STRIKE]Any idea which of the ST tips would be a better one to use? I'm not sure how much of a point a person would need. http://www.weller-toolsus.com/soldering/tips/irons/style-type/st-series[/STRIKE]

Update: Nevermind, I figured it out. I busted out my calipers and measured the solder pads on the LED chips and figured out a few optional tips to order.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Last 20ga was black/white. 100' $10..$16 w/ shipping

100' COLEMAN SAE J1128 GPT 20/2 RIPCORD BONDED SPEAKER WIRE AUTOMOTIVE


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

I ordered my 2 spools of 20awg wire too from DigiKee along with some tips and a new 25w Weller soldering iron.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

chayos00 said:


> I picked up a drill press to drill and tap 4-40 screws for mounting the electronics to the aluminum heat sink.


Well how is your drilling and tapping going???

Just finished all drill & tapping on my heatsinks this evening.
Dawn & a hot water bath to remove all magic-tap and oils is now done.
Broke a 4-40 tap too, it was time it had about a 400 hole life cycle.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Broke a 4-40 tap too, it was time it had about a 400 hole life cycle.


Only one???
you're good.
I've snapped 3 2-56 taps on about 50 holes..
Aluminum is cruel.
Problem was finding the right drill bit size AND ignoring "common knowledge" which said to use a slightly smaller than normal drill bit for AL.
Nope, at least not for me..
Also below type worked a lot better..
Maybe just the smaller size..

2-56 TiN Spiral Point Bottom Tap GH2 2FL HSS NC (Made in USA)


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

65% thread calls out a #43 drill, think I used a #42 @ .0935
Tap Magic is what saves them @ 1/4" thick heatsinks.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Well how is your drilling and tapping going???
> 
> Just finished all drill & tapping on my heatsinks this evening.
> Dawn & a hot water bath to remove all magic-tap and oils is now done.
> Broke a 4-40 tap too, it was time it had about a 400 hole life cycle.


Haven't gotten to it yet, my mom came down for 10 days to visit after my son was born on the 2ND. 

I've got a local plant group meeting on Saturday to hopefully get what I need for my 125g tank. And Sunday I'm going off-roading with my buddy. So one day next week depending upon baby appointments. 

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Alright, so today I'm finally able to take a look at the light fixture. Well.... aluminum heatsink, soon to be a light fixture. So I laid out where I was thinking to put the Bridgelux Vero LED's. Wasn't sure if side by side or front to back would be a better orientation. I'll be putting the smaller colored LED's around the luxs when laid out. I placed the O2Surplus controllers in the center as my tank has a 16" wide center brace that should shield any water splashing. 










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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Alright so I had a chance to play around with the layout of my LED's yesterday and I took 4 pics of how I could layout the COB's and the color LED's. Thoughts? If I recall it was mentioned to make the COB's right next to each other. 





































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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

What are the colors and number of each color??


> I picked up 8 of each to ensure there's enough to get a spread across the tank.
> 
> PHILIPS LUXEON Rebel ES Royal Blue LED
> PHILIPS LUXEON ES CYAN 3 WATT LEDS
> ...


Last count.. only puts 8 chips around the Veros..


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

jeffkrol said:


> What are the colors and number of each color??
> 
> 
> Last count.. only puts 8 chips around the Veros..


Based on this pic, the three in the middle are 400-430nm UV's. So there are two of each of the 4 colors and 1 each of the 400-410, 410-420, & 420-430 nm UV LED's. They are just spread around on the other pics. 










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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Alright, since I realized I didn't post all that was ordered, here's the screenshot of what I actually ordered.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Just a thought..


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

jeffkrol said:


> Just a thought..


I see you did a little photoshop/paint playing there LOL. Is there really any method to the madness (light placement)? I would guess more of what makes it easy and cleaner for wiring?


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Every "RGB" cluster is an effective "white"... 
slight offset of the Vero pucks allow a slightly tighter fit..

violets were just "because" Thought of a seperate "group" in-between the color clusters (purple is hard to "see"..) but would be a "see what happens" grouping w/ no real idea.. 
https://www.nano-reef.com/forums/topic/299439-ocean-coral-white-announced/

OCW..








http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/10-lighting/388465-ocean-coral-white-leds.html
Just an example of the royalblue/cyan/deep red = white concept..


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

jeffkrol said:


> Every "RGB" cluster is an effective "white"...
> slight offset of the Vero pucks allow a slightly tighter fit..
> 
> violets were just "because" Thought of a seperate "group" in-between the color clusters (purple is hard to "see"..) but would be a "see what happens" grouping w/ no real idea..
> ...


Ah makes sense! So with that being the case I've come up with this slight modification.



















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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Time to finish..


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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

man I wish I was an electrician so I can do this...


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

jeffkrol said:


> Time to finish..


I'm laying it out now to tap and drill it. Glad you like! 
@Betta - No need to be an electrician, just have some knowledge on soldering and the assistance of us on this board could help you plan it out. 

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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

chayos00 said:


> just have some knowledge on soldering and the assistance-
> 
> Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk


 *closes door behind me*


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

BettaBettas said:


> *closes door behind me*


LOL it's not that hard to learn! 

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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

its to hard for me though lmao, or right now it is!


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

So got it all laid out, seems to take forever to line up that many LED's and mark two drill holes for each. I used my the center punch to mark all the holes and the made sure my new drill press was ready to drill straight. However the wifey for back home and I had to get ready for going out tonight. However I may bail on her due to some discomfort from a procedure I had done on Monday. However I want to get it drilled and tapped tomorrow for sure! 

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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Alright, got the heatsink drilled. Broke 3 drill bits. I then started to tap the holes using tap oil and my drill on slow speed however, only part way in the damned thing broke. Grabbed my second tap and exact same thing..... SH!T!!!! Now I need to order more taps and a hand tapping tool, as obviously the drill is too much for it. So annoyed! 

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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

chayos00 said:


> Alright, got the heatsink drilled. Broke 3 drill bits. I then started to tap the holes using tap oil and my drill on slow speed however, only part way in the damned thing broke. Grabbed my second tap and exact same thing..... SH!T!!!! Now I need to order more taps and a hand tapping tool, as obviously the drill is too much for it. So annoyed!
> 
> Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk


for me spiral point bottom taps worked best.
Also found "common practice" didn't work well either re: the drill bit size..
most recommend slightly smaller wire gauge for AL than steel.. Found slightly bigger works better..

Less metal to cut away w/ the tap.. the better.
But I was using 2-64 spiral tip taps..


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

jeffkrol said:


> for me spiral point bottom taps worked best.
> Also found "common practice" didn't work well either re: the drill bit size..
> most recommend slightly smaller wire gauge for AL than steel.. Found slightly bigger works better..
> 
> ...


Yeah I'm gonna have to look into finding the next size up drill bit. It's odd how quickly these snapped. I must have used a much larger size drill and tap set when I made the electrical panels when I worked at rainbird, as those hardly ever broke in me. 

Here's what I used plus an Irwin tap. Vermont American 21660 Size 4 x 40 NC Tap No 43 Drill Bit Combo https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000CFLA02/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_ndIZybTFAVNRB

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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

chayos00 said:


> Yeah I'm gonna have to look into finding the next size up drill bit. It's odd how quickly these snapped. I must have used a much larger size drill and tap set when I made the electrical panels when I worked at rainbird, as those hardly ever broke in me.
> 
> Here's what I used plus an Irwin tap. Vermont American 21660 Size 4 x 40 NC Tap No 43 Drill Bit Combo https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000CFLA02/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_ndIZybTFAVNRB
> 
> Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk


4-40 H2 2 Flute Spiral Flute Bottom HSS-EX TiCn ANSI CNC Combo-Tap YG-1
Aluminum is annoying..esp. the softer types..


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

jeffkrol said:


> 4-40 H2 2 Flute Spiral Flute Bottom HSS-EX TiCn ANSI CNC Combo-Tap YG-1
> Aluminum is annoying..esp. the softer types..


I'll have to look for that from a PC tomorrow. Is that a specific brand, or do you have a specific source for it?

The aluminum is: Alloy:[censored] 6063-T6

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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

4-40 with a #[email protected]" provides 65% thread.
In all my applications I use the #43.

Your next drill would be a #[email protected] not sure if you will get enough % of thread.
A #42 would be normally paired with a 4-48 tap if sold as a set.

Tapping for me was through 3/8" thick material at worst.
I use a hand tap, forget the drill.
"Tap Magic" will save your life and patience.
Keep tap clean between holes with a brush and back it out often.

I had so many holes to tap, this was a two evening sit down while watching TV.

Isn't this fun.:grin2:


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Maryland Guppy said:


> 4-40 with a #[email protected]" provides 65% thread.
> In all my applications I use the #43.
> 
> Your next drill would be a #[email protected] not sure if you will get enough % of thread.


for the 2-64's I "split the difference" so to speak.

In the 4-40 case it would be using a *2.3mm* drill bit..
Would need to drill,tap, verify.
Secondly since I was using a silicone based heat sink compound the screws were, more or less, just to hold till set..
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod...gclid=CIWduILL4tICFcW2wAodAK4LnQ&gclsrc=aw.ds

2.2606mm (0.089"), #43
2.3749mm (0.0937"), #42

to the o/p tap is at a place we can't mention.. 

https://www.rntap.com/tap-technical-information/tap-drill-sizes-and-percentage-of-threads.aspx
According to this #43 is 71% #42 is 57%..
2.3mm (0.09055") would be around, what, 65%?


> NOTE: If tapping difficult to machine materials or using small taps, use a lower thread percentage such as 60% to 70%.


http://theoreticalmachinist.com/TapDrillSizeCalculators
Metric can be your friend.. 

Everything is "complicated"....


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

jeffkrol said:


> 4-40 H2 2 Flute Spiral Flute Bottom HSS-EX TiCn ANSI CNC Combo-Tap YG-1
> Aluminum is annoying..esp. the softer types..


Like this one on Ebay? (Side note, discovered you can't put actual ebay links in this thread.... LOL)
http://www.e b a y .com/itm/4-40-H2-2-Flute-Spiral-Flute-Bottom-HSS-EX-TiCn-ANSI-CNC-Combo-Tap-YG-1-T2162C/151065921201?_trksid=p2047675.c100623.m-1&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D40832%26meid%3D55522109d3a442c89868c51cc766db5b%26pid%3D100623%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D391222939407



Maryland Guppy said:


> 4-40 with a #[email protected]" provides 65% thread.
> In all my applications I use the #43.
> 
> Your next drill would be a #[email protected] not sure if you will get enough % of thread.
> ...





jeffkrol said:


> for the 2-64's I "split the difference" so to speak.
> 
> In the 4-40 case it would be using a *2.3mm* drill bit..
> Would need to drill,tap, verify.
> ...


Yeah I learned that FleaBay is the site we can't mention LOL

Okay, so I have an update today....

I was able to source some more bits and taps today from Ace Hardware, I picked up some more #43's and 42's. I tested a hole that I had to relocate due to a broken tap in it's mate's hole and the #42 drill bit was large enough to allow me to use the tap without issues on a drill (only for so long...) and the screw was able to lock down with enough force to make me happy. I was also using tap magic for drilling the holes to lube the bit and while tapping too. I used to do a TON of tapping holes in a metal panel, but pretty sure it was much larger tap sized that are stronger and hardly ever broke them. Maybe like 1 or 2 out of 300 or so holes at a time. LOL

So I was able to find 2 more taps and broke both of them by the time I was done with one of the 4 clusters of LED's. I think I still have like 4 holes left on a that cluster too. 

So I'm going to order from Amazon these two taps and see how things go. They look like they incorporate the suggested tap styles listed above. 

HHIP 1011-8505 4-40NC H2 2 Flute HSS Spiral Flute Tap Bottom

Morse Cutting Tools 33253 Fast Spiral Flute Taps, High-Speed Steel, Bright Finish, Bottom Type, 52 degree Helix Angle, H2 Pitch Diameter, 2 Flutes, #4-40 Size


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## O2surplus (Jan 31, 2010)

*DIY LED Build for a 125g (Almost done with the build)*

Now you know why a lot of us went with the Makers heat sink.....Tapping sucks!


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

O2surplus said:


> Now you know why a lot of us went with the Makers heat sink.....Tapping sucks!


LOL Yeah I can see why for sure! I figured I had done it a TON in the past, but didn't realize 4-40 were so delicate! Hope the new taps that I get Wednesday will work better. I hate to have to resort to having to hand tap all of these, vs using a drill on low speed and lots of fwd and reverse to make sure the debris was getting cleared. I was debating about using a cup of alcohol to dip the tap in each time to clean it between uses, but I just used some tap magic to "rinse" the tap between uses.


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## andiok (May 7, 2013)

two tips for you when taping aluminum. 
find the closest drill bit for the holes 
and ALWAYS tap by hand if aluminum thicker then 1/8"


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Alright I have my taps from Amazon. The one on the right I have 5 of at $6 each and the left one was like $15 and only one of. If I break about two of them then I will be switching to hand tapping. Yes the material is thicker at 0.27" thick. 

Wish me luck! I'll post and update when done. 










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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

Good luck bud!


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

good luck..


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Okay, so the tap on the left is a champ.... till I bottomed it out in the bottom of a hole in one of the heatsink fins. I only bought one of those taps unfortunately. However the other tap did well, but it wasn't like cutting through butter as the first one was. I've now set my drill from drill setting to the first torque setting 1 out of 1-20. I have also located the other holes that go into the fins to be careful and either do those by hand or start them with the drill and then finish them by hand. 

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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Did you ever change the hole size?


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

jeffkrol said:


> Did you ever change the hole size?


I drilled them all with the #42 sized tap vs the recommendation of #43. So yup! 

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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Okay, the heatsink is fully drilled! Woot woot! Now I'm mounting the LED's at the moment. 

So going forward if I ever need to tap any holes, this tap will be the one I'm using! 

Morse Cutting Tools 33253 Fast Spiral Flute Taps, High-Speed Steel, Bright Finish, Bottom Type, 52 degree Helix Angle, H2 Pitch Diameter, 2 Flutes, #4 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00PZZKI84/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apap_47evrRPlkJ4wZ

The other tap worked, I broke two like they were just fragile, but using the drill I had to go half way (felt resistance) and then cleaned the gunk off the tap and then went back through the hole the rest of the way. 

I will be using Artic Alumina premium ceramic polysynthetic thermal compound to use between the sink and the LED's. Good thing with this stuff is it's not conducive is my understanding. 

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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

yea aluminum is "sticky".. Glad you got it done though..
so much for smaller holes for aluminum..


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

jeffkrol said:


> yea aluminum is "sticky".. Glad you got it done though..
> so much for smaller holes for aluminum..


Yeah no kidding, I only went small as I was trying to keep the screw heads small enough not to cover too much of the LED's. It's quite obvious I will never do 4-40 screws again! Unless it's very thing aluminum! 

Got some of the LED's mounted but had to stop as a buddy got here or dinner. Speaking of which that flank steak was yummy! I'll try to get the lights mounted tomorrow and start the wiring process soon! 

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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Well, got as many LED's mounted as possible, as I ran out of screws and washers. There was 100 of each. I need 14 each more to finish the mounting. I have ordered some more from Amazon. So I'll try to get the wiring started while waiting for the rest of the hardware. 

Full shot: 









Completed light cluster: 









LED drivers, they are offset due to a broken tap in a hole: 









Unfinished cluster:









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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Another minor update. After an impromptu weekend getaway up in the mountains, I started working on the fixture today. Had to make another HD run to get more zip tie pads so I can keep the wiring pretty. It's not pretty now but I hope it will be in the end. I'm starting with wiring up the COB LED's and then the colors will be after that. Not sure how much I can sneak in tomorrow as it will be my birthday. As well as my last day of my 8 weeks of paternity leave..... 😭 Boo to having to work again, at least I work from home though! 

So here's the progress today. You may notice the TV right on my work bench too, seems to be the only way to watch my DVRed shows. 










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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

Coming along, slowly but surely


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

BettaBettas said:


> Coming along, slowly but surely


Yup, it wasn't the hare that won the race, turtles do win sometimes! My mentality has been to never rush a job, but ensure quality is the way a job is accomplished! 

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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

True that!


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Got a little more don't on the lamp. Got the hardware in to finish mounting my LED's. As well as some more wiring done. On my last set of color lights and then to the UV lights, not sure if I want to keep all 3 wavelengths of UV's on one channel or keep all three on separate channels. I was thinking I could group then as left and right channels. 

I moved into the house today as I was able to open all the windows today and let the smoke from soldering blow out the windows instead of being stuck in the garage doing this. 










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## dbl_dbl17 (Feb 4, 2012)

This looks like a fun project!


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Alright! Alright! Alright! I have finished the LED wiring on the heatsink! I haven't gotten the StormX controller part done or figured out yet, but that will be next. Just figured I would give a quick update. Still need to pretty up the wiring and tie it all up.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

The LED bar is finished minus the controller wired up. 










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## O2surplus (Jan 31, 2010)

"vera nize"


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

O2surplus said:


> "vera nize"


O/T 

Hey how are your pucks doing?


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

So I have the StormX wired up and finished last night and ready for power. However I'm nervous to also apply power! It was 1am and I started to see if I had any short to grounds and I think I might...... I haven't gone out there today yet to check. But I'll do so later once I get the kiddos fed and going for the day. 

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## monkeyruler90 (Apr 13, 2008)

can't wait to be lit up!


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Another update. So after doing some reading, I decided to use alcohol to clean up the LED to make sure there was no residual flux that could be causing a short to ground on my circuits. I let it dry out and using a paint brush and alcohol all over the LEDs and then had a fan running over it to dry them up. 

So I have found that my deep reds seem to indicate a short to ground and by putting the multimeter on the aluminum heatsink and then touching (can't recall) positive or negative on the LED it lights up, in fact it does this on a few of the LED's. Now I'm not sure if it's grounding naturally through the LED aluminum body or not. I get some 2.5ohms on the "shorted" ones and around 180ish ohms on the others and some are just an open circuit. Some that read open circuit will still illuminate those single LED chips, not bright, but just enough forward voltage to show their color. 

Oh... and I did fubar one of the LED's the little clear bubble on one of them fell off..... whoops! Guess I better figure out if I need to order any more before I order the one and then have to pay twice the shipping later. 

Do I dare power them on or not??


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

chayos00 said:


> Another update. So after doing some reading, I decided to use alcohol to clean up the LED to make sure there was no residual flux that could be causing a short to ground on my circuits. I let it dry out and using a paint brush and alcohol all over the LEDs and then had a fan running over it to dry them up.
> 
> So I have found that my deep reds seem to indicate a short to ground and by putting the multimeter on the aluminum heatsink and then touching (can't recall) positive or negative on the LED it lights up, in fact it does this on a few of the LED's. Now I'm not sure if it's grounding naturally through the LED aluminum body or not. I get some 2.5ohms on the "shorted" ones and around 180ish ohms on the others and some are just an open circuit. Some that read open circuit will still illuminate those single LED chips, not bright, but just enough forward voltage to show their color.
> 
> ...


If they light a little w/ neg (or pos) and touching heatsink w/ positive (or neg) yes.. you have probably a solder bridge from pad to star to heatsink..

Drivers won't allow any more than rated current so shouldn't blow things up.. That said all I can say is I've never blown diodes w/ this "type" of short. It is pretty common....take that for the little it is worth..

Fire up one channel at a time if you must.. Just shut ps off each time when connecting them up..
Only (likely) way to mess things up is to have a driver reversed.. 

"bubble is a silicone (or some such plastic) lens.. Not exactly "necessary"....People pop them off violets and UV all the time when the lenses discolor..

biggest pia is the common ground for the drivers and controller.. which is why I usually recommend the jumpered boards so one can take the pull down resistors out of the circuit.. 
If grounding isn't correct nothing lights..just don't ground it to the AC


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## O2surplus (Jan 31, 2010)

jeffkrol said:


> Drivers won't allow any more than rated current so shouldn't blow things up.. That said all I can say is I've never blown diodes w/ this "type" of short. It is pretty common....take that for the little it is worth..


Be careful here.... the drivers are "LOW side" buck regulators. Meaning... They're on the ground side of the led strings. If there's a short to ground in the string, current will flow uncontrolled until the leds blow.:surprise:


jeffkrol said:


> Fire up one channel at a time if you must.. Just shut ps off each time when connecting them up..


Good advice here. Be careful.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Okay, I noticed a pattern going on. The Vero's don't have any short to grounds. They are on one of your 8 channel boards. All channels + & - lines are over 200k ohms when checked (cheap multimeter). 

The board running the color LED's each channel indicates issues, even ones that have nothing connected to them. So I'm wondering if it's a board issue now. The ground goes to about 0.8ohms and the positives read about 183ohms each. 

See pics. 
Color controller


















Vero controller


















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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

Gosh, seems whenever there is a DIY led light around... something just has to go wrong.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

BettaBettas said:


> Gosh, seems whenever there is a DIY led light around... something just has to go wrong.


But here's the key! I.... will not give up! It will be done! LOL

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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

chayos00 said:


> But here's the key! I.... will not give up! It will be done! LOL
> 
> Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk


 must resist... posting... funny gif.... grrr!!!! LOL


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

O2surplus said:


> Be careful here.... the drivers are "LOW side" buck regulators. Meaning... They're on the ground side of the led strings. If there's a short to ground in the string, current will flow uncontrolled until the leds blow.:surprise:


OPPS, my bad...



chayos00 said:


> Another update. So after doing some reading, I decided to use alcohol to clean up the LED to make sure there was no residual flux that could be causing a short to ground on my circuits. I let it dry out and using a paint brush and alcohol all over the LEDs and then had a fan running over it to dry them up.
> 
> So I have found that my deep reds seem to indicate a short to ground and by putting the multimeter on the aluminum heatsink and then touching (can't recall) positive or negative on the LED it lights up, in fact it does this on a few of the LED's. Now I'm not sure if it's grounding naturally through the LED aluminum body or not. I get some 2.5ohms on the "shorted" ones and around 180ish ohms on the others and some are just an open circuit. Some that read open circuit will still illuminate those single LED chips, not bright, but just enough forward voltage to show their color.
> 
> ...


https://reefledlights.com/trouble-shooting/


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## O2surplus (Jan 31, 2010)

chayos00 said:


> Vero controller


I can't see the whole DVOM in the picture, but from what I can see it appears to be set for the 200VDC range. Is there a dedicated "OHMS" setting? Because those readings are meaningless, if you're not reading ohms. Please post a picture of your DVOM.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

O2surplus said:


> I can't see the whole DVOM in the picture, but from what I can see it appears to be set for the 200VDC range. Is there a dedicated "OHMS" setting? Because those readings are meaningless, if you're not reading ohms. Please post a picture of your DVOM.


Sorry for the sucky pic, the dial goes 360° and it was on the value for 200ohms, the 180° of that is what you saw in the pic. There are different ohm ranges 200k, 200, 2k, and diode. It was hard to get a good pick one holding the phone to take it and then still holding the two probes. 

Also just a touch of background on me I was an aircraft electrician for 6 years and did other electro mechanical work for another 4 after that. So I can confirm the readings as accurate for being in ohms, just never spent the money on a good meter like the flukes I used to use. I usually never troubleshoot down to the board level, just to the components and replaced those. I'll get you a full pic after I crawl my lazy butt from bed.... two young kids (both sub 2 years) makes you want to sleep when you possibly can. LOL

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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Edit: My daughter is awake now so I'm out of bed.... here's my meter in the 200ohm setting. 









The driver boards.









Close up of the color driver board.









The Vero's driver board.









The common ground on the storm x is the small ground wire you see from the bottom of the board. 

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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

jeffkrol said:


> https://reefledlights.com/trouble-shooting/


Alright I like this to confirm what I was doing. So I have a feeling I might have to go over with my magnifying glass and look for some wires that may have spilled over onto the star. I pretinned each wire, so there shouldn't be cold joints, but there may be some excess. 

Never worked on this small of components before and there is always a learning curve! 

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## O2surplus (Jan 31, 2010)

Ok, so I can now see that you are indeed measuring OHMS and you do know your way around a multimeter. I too miss my Fluke Model 97 LOL. I think that as long as you don't see any continuity to ground between any of the led stars, you should be good to go. I need to confirm my suspicions, but I think the readings you're seeing at the drivers are bogus, being that the driver components are included in the check. I personally soldered, inspected, and tested each channel of those driver boards before shipping them off too you. They should be fine, but one note of caution!!! Take the time to blow any loose debris off the drivers and leds before you power it up, as even the tiniest piece of copper wire will cause havoc if it's in among the driver circuitry. I know this from experience LOL.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

O2surplus said:


> Ok, so I can now see that you are indeed measuring OHMS and you do know your way around a multimeter. I too miss my Fluke Model 97 LOL. I think that as long as you don't see any continuity to ground between any of the led stars, you should be good to go. I need to confirm my suspicions, but I think the readings you're seeing at the drivers are bogus, being that the driver components are included in the check. I personally soldered, inspected, and tested each channel of those driver boards before shipping them off too you. They should be fine, but one note of caution!!! Take the time to blow any loose debris off the drivers and leds before you power it up, as even the tiniest piece of copper wire will cause havoc if it's in among the driver circuitry. I know this from experience LOL.


Yeah I'm hoping they are bogus readings too. Yesterday I used alcohol to clean off the solder joints of flux with a paint brush and I hope it got all the "scraps" loose with it as well. However I'll be using my magnifying headset today to get a good look at the joints and probably redoing the messier ones and trying to ensure I have no bare wire hang over. 

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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

So I worked on the fixture some and have improved the solder joints one the majority of one of the 4 arrays. I shortened the exposed wire over the solder pad so there is no chance of it touching the metal star. With that being done I'm now getting in the 1.5-1.8Mohms on the channels that are blank on the driver boards. So I obviously fixed some short to grounds on the LED's. I was debating about gutting the whole wiring job, but didn't want to waste that costly wire! LOL But I would of been able to pretty up the look of the wires over the arrays. Either way I made some good progress and not all of the LED's are turning on with the meter doing a short to ground check. Now if I only didn't have to work tomorrow I would work on the rest of it to get it going. Glad the Vero's aren't having any short to ground issues! LOL 

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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Forgot to throw these in from earlier

Not a good job. 









Improved solder connections. 









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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Lots of resoldering questionable joints and then lots of ohms checking later. It appears I just got the last short to ground resolved. @O2surplus it appears the funky ohm readings on the open channels is fixed now, as they are reading open above 2M ohms now (so ∞ reading). I've been sneaking in 5 minutes here and there between cases with work, yes I work from home too. It appears that everything is reading correctly and I when I get a full 10-20 minutes I'm going to double check each LED again to confirm no more short to grounds and they don't light up with the diode mode from heatsink to + or - solder pads. I can feel the burning of my eyes with the first full on lighting test coming!! LOL


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## O2surplus (Jan 31, 2010)

No more shorts..... That's good news! Make one more pass with the meter and then light that sucker up!


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

*Success!!!!! She's alive!!!!*

SUCCESS!!!!! SHE'S ALIVE!!!! The light powers on!!!! No magic smoke release either!!

Damned it is bright in person, the video does no justice. However I remembered the driver boards are adjustable and I turned them up after the video and hit about 330 watts on my watt meter. However that one LED I suspected to be damaged from the plastic bubble isn't lighting up, nothing a new LED board won't fix.
Youtube Video - First Test W/DIY LED Build


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## FishEggs (Mar 19, 2017)

Congrats!!! Looks good. I'm about to start on of my own soon and picked up a few things from your build. Thanks


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

FishEggs said:


> Congrats!!! Looks good. I'm about to start on of my own soon and picked up a few things from your build. Thanks


I've got a few pointers for you when I get a few moments later to tell you! It should save you time vs what I did. LOL

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## FishEggs (Mar 19, 2017)

I'm all ears.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

HUh, go figure,, A busted diode normally takes out the whole series string. Odd...
Anyways.. YEA!!!!!


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

@chayos00 1 diode only? Not a worry, I'd call it a success story.
Not sitting in the corner with Albert?


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Quick cell phone picture. There's definitely MUCH better coverage than the 3 CFL's I had over the tank. There's gonna be some tweaking to the light colors for a while. Also going to need to see if I can borrow a PAR meter from a local guy to see what I should tune it to. 

Also, I have no Albert in my den. LOL Oh Sean, is Albert fixing that light of yours yet? I can totally understand the frustration behind fixing it.









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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

FishEggs said:


> I'm all ears.


Okay so here's my tips. 

Check for short to ground after each solder joint you make. This will save you from having to redo a majority of them later while trying to look for questionable ones later when your multimeter tells you there's one later. I found the best visual was to put the meter in diode mode and put one lead on your sink and the other on the + & - pads to see if the LED comes on (doesn't work for the Vero's, but the little 3w ones it does as they only take about 3vdc to break the minimum forward current of the diode. 

Clean off all flux with alcohol and have a firm bristle brush to help you, the soft paint brush doesn't work as well. But this caused some low resistance readings when they should have been open instead of some form of short to ground. 

Also part of me was ready to gut all my wiring to do a cleaner job of wiring. So plan for that ahead of time to not have the wires in front of the LED's when powered on. Also if you use a thermal paste, scrape up all the excess that oozes out or that [censored][censored][censored][censored] will be all over when you clean up with alcohol. 

Think that's about it for now. 

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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Maryland Guppy said:


> @chayos00 1 diode only? Not a worry, I'd call it a success story.
> Not sitting in the corner with Albert?


Yup! Just one, and it's not stopping the fixture from working to where I have to jumper it to fix it. 

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## Aqua99 (Jan 6, 2017)

Nice job!


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## FishEggs (Mar 19, 2017)

How's the light working out?


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

FishEggs said:


> How's the light working out?


It's working well. Getting the stormX figured out too. I have two LED's to replace. One of the UV's has gone out and the known bad greenish colored one. But they are in hand and just waiting for next weekend, as I'll be out of town this weekend. Still need to borrow that PAR meter as well. 

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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

I've got the LED's replaced last night and also noticed two channels were not wanting to up the current on the O2 PCB, however I had to tweak the adjusting resistor and got one channel on full capacity now, but one I had to move over to an open channel as no matter what I did it wouldn't come up. Luckily it was right next to an open channel so I switched the leads over without issues.

So I did some more drilling and tapping on the aluminum with some 6-32 hardware and wouldn't you know it, this time the damned Irwin bit broke on me. The bits felt questionable again, but I started off with the larger #33 bit, I think the Irwin smaller taps are just crap, both of the two I got were slightly bent.... I'm looking for another high speed type one to get, but they are all 1-3 weeks out on Amazon.


Edit: Actually just finally found one for delivery on Monday! Like the ONLY one on Amazon!


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Okay, think I've got it tweaked and setup how I want it now. I have 5 cooling cans on the heatsink installed. However I couldn't get my StormX controller to control all 5 wired together on the fan PWM output, or even a single one. I picked up a 12v 2A PSU that I was going to use, but turns out the 9v 1A PSU for the StormX runs them without issues. However I've seen a few adjustable 3-12v wall warts that I might be able to get to pick a voltage to run the fans in the future. Went from running at 110°F to about 85°F now. I just have the LED PSU and the fan PSU on a timer to come on 30 minutes before and after the lights are on. Now to just get that PAR meter LOL


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Alright, so I finally got the PAR meter to test my setup with. I borrowed a meter from a local friend and knew I had to tune my light down some as I keep getting some BBA on my hardscape and some plants. But I was pulling around 80-90w before tweaking my setup and now down to about 50w of power use. Remember this thing will max out around 330-350w of power. 

The fixture is 8.5" above water level while reading all data and the sump and all pumps were turned off. 

PAR Meter borrowed
PAR Meter by chayos00, on Flickr

Actual PAR Data:

My Channel 10 & 13 aren't maxing out their current. I need to check them out, I think the adjuster pot might have a cold solder joint, or loose.

PAR Data by chayos00, on Flickr


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Turns out fixing the channel 10 and 13 light output was pretty easy. I think it was a cold solder joint, so I found my iron tip with the smallest point and heated the pot and the resistor that controls the current in the circuit. That resistor is so damned tiny, I almost lost one that came off the PCB as I was trying to reflow the solder. But the circle in yellow are the items I reflowed and now the lights are back to the max.


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## riggles17 (Apr 4, 2018)

I'm thinking about going with a build VERY similar to this, but I would love to know how it has worked out for you, since your last update was around my birthday last year. Also wondering if you can sneak a video of the tank up for us to see, while still keeping the youngins in check. Looks great, and I have gotten a lot of very useful information from this so thank you.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

riggles17 said:


> I'm thinking about going with a build VERY similar to this, but I would love to know how it has worked out for you, since your last update was around my birthday last year. Also wondering if you can sneak a video of the tank up for us to see, while still keeping the youngins in check. Looks great, and I have gotten a lot of very useful information from this so thank you.


I'm glad this build of mine can help someone else! I'll see if I can get a video of the tank with the lights on. I just finally decided and started to piece together a CO2 setup so I can bring my light levels higher to better view the tank. 

However I think I would change to a smaller Vero light model vs the ones I went with and double the number to have a better light spread across the tank. My one advice for someone doing a very similar setup. I had looked at one point which Vero it was, but LED's have been away from my thoughts for quite some time. LOL I do have some current tank pictures in my other build thread for my tank that should be in my signature. Granted I'm not the greatest with my DSLR camera either. Haha 

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## riggles17 (Apr 4, 2018)

I do appreciate the feedback. I also was thinking about changing to the smaller Veros, as everyone I see building with them runs them turned WAYYY down, and I think the more colored emitter clusters around to form the array the better. If you were to do it again, you would have the smaller Veros, and would you use the same layout for the colored LED's around them?

I checked out your build thread. I'm giddy about the fact that you've done all the leg work for me;
- Painted the 6 foot tank background black {Check}
- 4-5 ft. wide overflow box {Check}
- Built arrays with Vero's at the center {Check}

A very long list of things for me to get through, your build is very nice pal, pleasure seeing the progress. The reason I ask for the video is so I can see what sort of shimmer effect I may be dealing with. If you get the time, I would appreciate it, not trying to nag, just want to be clear where I'm coming from.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

riggles17 said:


> I do appreciate the feedback. I also was thinking about changing to the smaller Veros, as everyone I see building with them runs them turned WAYYY down, and I think the more colored emitter clusters around to form the array the better. If you were to do it again, you would have the smaller Veros, and would you use the same layout for the colored LED's around them?
> 
> I checked out your build thread. I'm giddy about the fact that you've done all the leg work for me;
> - Painted the 6 foot tank background black {Check}
> ...


It's quite funny that you can find something similar to what another has that's close to what you want to do. My decision to go with Poret foam in my sump was hard to find anyone doing something similar to what I wanted, but it works and I do like it as is. 

So back to lighting. I took a video with my phone, the color looks a bit redish to me on the video. But the hard part was tuning the color just right with the colored LED's. Might have to buy a PAR meter so I don't have to borrow one to tweak my lights just right. 

Here's a video I took and uploaded it to YouTube. 

https://youtu.be/oG2OVFBFYgU


For the LED's, I think the number that I would go with would be 8 sets of Vero's and honestly never thought about the color LED's as I think what they can do are pretty good. But I suppose what I might do is put a set of colors between then sets of Vero's (keeping the same pair of cool and warm colored COB's) or something like that so. Something like this for a v2 of my setup. 

Vero, Color, Vero, Color, Vero, Color, Vero, driver PCB's, Vero, Color, Vero, Color, Vero, Color, & Vero. 

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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

chayos00 said:


> It's quite funny that you can find something similar to what another has that's close to what you want to do. My decision to go with Poret foam in my sump was hard to find anyone doing something similar to what I wanted, but it works and I do like it as is.
> 
> So back to lighting. I took a video with my phone, the color looks a bit redish to me on the video. But the hard part was tuning the color just right with the colored LED's. Might have to buy a PAR meter so I don't have to borrow one to tweak my lights just right.
> 
> ...


Looks great. Video says 15 par at substrate. What % are you running?


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

ChrisX said:


> Looks great. Video says 15 par at substrate. What % are you running?


I have PAR data and the StormX controller number listed in this post I will link below. Each channel is a bit different except the Vero's, the like color ones are set through same. The StormX max is 4095. You want to look at the "tuned" column for current settings. 

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?p=10499930

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## naptalene (Mar 10, 2018)

I've also been reading this thread multiple times.

The light in the video looks great. I saw earlier in the thread that the Vero 13 and 10's were recommended and I was leaning to that personally.
I built my Reef tank lights with 3W LEDS and was planning to use the COB's for another reef tank but the Planted tank bug seems to be biting hard.
This thread has been a great help


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

naptalene said:


> I've also been reading this thread multiple times.
> 
> The light in the video looks great. I saw earlier in the thread that the Vero 13 and 10's were recommended and I was leaning to that personally.
> I built my Reef tank lights with 3W LEDS and was planning to use the COB's for another reef tank but the Planted tank bug seems to be biting hard.
> This thread has been a great help


Regarding decision between larger COBs and smaller, some of the larger COBs come in high-K, high CRI variants. In the smaller COBS, you will not find a 6500K, 95CRI part unless you consider the yuji brand leds. IMO, this is the only reason to use larger Veros (you want a 6500K with 95cri, and don't want to buy Yujis)

I am building my second DIY system (after using 3W leds in the first) and chose CREE 1304 COBs. The smaller COBs have more modest heat sink requirements, can be installed in a linear fashion, and offer better light distribution.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

ChrisX said:


> Regarding decision between larger COBs and smaller, some of the larger COBs come in high-K, high CRI variants. In the smaller COBS, you will not find a 6500K, 95CRI part unless you consider the yuji brand leds. IMO, this is the only reason to use larger Veros (you want a 6500K with 95cri, and don't want to buy Yujis)
> 
> I am building my second DIY system (after using 3W leds in the first) and chose CREE 1304 COBs. The smaller COBs have more modest heat sink requirements, can be installed in a linear fashion, and offer better light distribution.


Thanks for posting this ChrisX, I recalled some argument against the smaller COB's but couldn't recall what/why.


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## riggles17 (Apr 4, 2018)

So I have decided I am going to do 8 light clusters, with these as the centre bulbs, and then the same color bulb layout around them. 

Bridgelux BXRC-27E2000-D-73-SE
Bridgelux BXRC-50C2001-B-74-SE

I am considering going with the non- SE versions, but I don't think it will make much of a difference. I decided to scale down the Veros, 1 for cost, 2 for the fact you run them dimmed down, and 3 more clusters means I can spread them more easily if they're a bit smaller.

The screenshot of the Excel spreadsheet is up to date with all of your components correct?

Can't wait to get this light built. The Home Depot Shop Lights look worse and worse by the day as I re-watch your YouTube video lol


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## riggles17 (Apr 4, 2018)

This project may be coming to a screeching halt, doubling the number of LED's and going with your Vero's or the Vero's I posted above rings me in over $1500 CAD. Not a chance I can justify that lol. Ugh, back to the drawing board I go.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

riggles17 said:


> This project may be coming to a screeching halt, doubling the number of LED's and going with your Vero's or the Vero's I posted above rings me in over $1500 CAD. Not a chance I can justify that lol. Ugh, back to the drawing board I go.


My diy cree / epi build is < $150. And is based on 95 cri cree cxa 1304s.

People waste money by buying too much heat sink, too many watts. Then run them at 25% to avoid algae.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

So today I was playing around with my lights. Took some pics with things setup in the different colors and just the COB's.

5600k @ 2030 by chayos00, on Flickr

[email protected] [email protected] by chayos00, on Flickr

5600k & 2700k @ 2030 by chayos00, on Flickr

2700k @ 2030 by chayos00, on Flickr

[email protected] [email protected] by chayos00, on Flickr

Deep Red @ 4095 by chayos00, on Flickr

Cyan @ 4095 by chayos00, on Flickr

Cool Blue @ 4095 by chayos00, on Flickr

Royal Blue @ 4095 by chayos00, on Flickr

All UV @ 4095 by chayos00, on Flickr

All Colors @ 4095 UV @ 105 by chayos00, on Flickr

[email protected] [email protected] by chayos00, on Flickr

Current Settings by chayos00, on Flickr


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Looks good whichever well except solid colors.. photos never show what you see w/ soilds


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

jeffkrol said:


> Looks good whichever well except solid colors.. photos never show what you see w/ soilds


In person it looks a bit different on some of the options I tried. The 2700 by itself looked more like dusk/dawn. You are right that the colors by themselves sure didn't look right. But neat to see how they combined get a "white" coloring overall. 

One thing I was wanting to play with was to see how the COB's looked like themselves, as Riggles17 mentioned the cost of the setup in Canada. The 5.6k's by themselves look good as well as mixed with about 1/4-1/3 of the 2.7k's. 

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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

nmasdfa


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## riggles17 (Apr 4, 2018)

chayos00 said:


> So today I was playing around with my lights. Took some pics with things setup in the different colors and just the COB's.
> 
> 5600k @ 2030 by chayos00, on Flickr
> 
> ...


For the picture with the 56&2700 at 2030, there aren't any colors on in that picture? I'm thinking I may go with a bare bones option without the colors for the time being and add it as I go along. Another reason Im considering that as an option is because I may break my single 6 footer into a stacked setup with 2 36x18 foot prints on the top and 2 below them. If I do end up doing that then the tanks will be shorter and I'll be able to change each light individually


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

riggles17 said:


> For the picture with the 56&2700 at 2030, there aren't any colors on in that picture? I'm thinking I may go with a bare bones option without the colors for the time being and add it as I go along. Another reason Im considering that as an option is because I may break my single 6 footer into a stacked setup with 2 36x18 foot prints on the top and 2 below them. If I do end up doing that then the tanks will be shorter and I'll be able to change each light individually


You are correct, only the 5.6k and 2.7k Vero's are on in that picture, running at the 2030 setting of the stormx, it goes from 0-4095 in it's variable tuning settings.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

What a fantastic thread. Looking over your build I dont think I'm up for the install challenge. I'm thinking about picking up an Emerson booster bar for each of my 75 gallon tanks. Do you know if one of those Storm controllers would be able to individually dim the main Beamswork fixture and the Emerson bar? No individual lights just the 2 fixtures on one controller? Would a single controller be able to dim 4 fixtures separately? 2 on the top tank and two on the bottom?


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

The Dude1 said:


> What a fantastic thread. Looking over your build I dont think I'm up for the install challenge. I'm thinking about picking up an Emerson booster bar for each of my 75 gallon tanks. Do you know if one of those Storm controllers would be able to individually dim the main Beamswork fixture and the Emerson bar? No individual lights just the 2 fixtures on one controller? Would a single controller be able to dim 4 fixtures separately? 2 on the top tank and two on the bottom?


Honestly I have no clue, I don't know enough about those other devices and how they are controlled. 

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