# Eco complete



## Hypancistrus (Oct 28, 2004)

_Any_ uncoated substrate that contains nutrients for plants is _going to affect water chemistry in some way_.

If you want no effect on your water chemistry, use epoxy coated gravel. But it won't do anything for your plant roots.

Eco Complete _will also raise your tank's KH and GH_. It can take a few weeks to a few months for the KH and GH to stabalize, depending on how much water you change. Some people do a "water rearing" stage, where they add the Eco Complete but no plants and fish, then do 90+% water changes every day for a week.

The other popular black gravel is ADA Aqua Soil Amazonia, which is the _opposite_ of Eco Complete... it _lowers_ both GH and KH.


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

Take a few minutes and read my Guide. Nitrates alone do not cause algae outbreaks. I have seen nitrate levels over 100 ppm in non-planted tanks that have no algae.

And I have seen massive GW problems in tanks that have no nitrates.

Also vinegar is a poor choice to test the reactivity of a substrate material. You need a much stronger acid to do the test correctly.


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## akos (Oct 20, 2005)

I have very soft water so raising the KH & GH was a good thing for me, but as others have said its only temporary. I changed from pea gravel to eco and I really like it. Here is a picture as requested. (my first picture post so not sure how it will come out)


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## 1_Kyle (May 26, 2006)

Thanks for the replies and pic.

So is it possible to eventually establish an acidic, soft water aquarium with eco complete with minimal intervention (eg piece of bogwood), or will the eco complete ALWAYS buffer the water making it difficult to lower pH?

My current gravel reacts quite violently with vinegar so does this prove that this gravel definately contains carbonates? I have bogwood and peat running in this aquarium and the pH sticks around 7.8, GH and KH have also increased from my tap water readings.

ADA aqua soil amazonia - I have looked at this but what puts me off is that it states it lowers pH to around 5.5 - 6.5 (too low) and also there is no mention of the soil itself containing any nutrients.


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

If your substrate reacts violently with vinegar then it's a VERY soft carbonate containing material and is causing your high pH.

It's very easy to maintain an acidic pH with Eco-Complete. Of course it helps to know how hard your source water is.


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## Bombay (Mar 3, 2006)

I live in the Houston area. I believe much of our water is filtered thru a limestone aquifer. The water is hard.

To keep my pH in the area I want it, I use distilled/ro/uv/carbon filtered bottled water. With the assistance of DIY CO2, I am able to keep my pH at 6.8ish or so. If you have a larger tank though, RO would be the way to go. It is pretty difficult to lower the pH (to any substantial degree) of water that is hard to begin with.

I use eco complete...it does raise kh/gh...I also use a little tap water to make sure I won't crash my pH.

Sounds like you are using crushed limestone, dolomite, aragonite or some other form of calcium carbonate. Take the responsibility for the gravel you ended up with though...and do research next time...

Confucius say: man who lay on railroad track get that run down feeling


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## 1_Kyle (May 26, 2006)

No, I bought my current gravel because it specifically stated it doesnt raise pH.

The place I bought it from understood the problem and are willing to exchange me some eco complete. Did the eco just raise your KH/GH initially or are you having an ongoing problem with it?


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## Bombay (Mar 3, 2006)

Kyle:
What is the name and manufacturer of the gravel you purchased? You would think a gravel manu would know.

Eco raised it initially. my ph (mostly due to CO2) is 6.8ish. I don't think it has gone down...just staying consistent. Nothing wrong with a stable buffer.

Tap water and gravel are going to be your main contributors to kh/gh. Go with one of the tried and true subsrates as recommended on this board...and then the other adjustments will have to come from the water you put in.

Check out carib-sea.com and seachem.com. Seachem will send you small samples if you ask nicely.


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## 1_Kyle (May 26, 2006)

The gravel is called roman gravel manufactured by pettex.

From what I can gather from a lot of reading eco complete can cause an initial increase of pH/KH/GH due to the buffered water it is packed in, but after that is diluted/replaced it has no further influence on water parameters. Im pretty sure ill go for Eco complete.

Thanks for the advice.


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## Brilliant (Apr 11, 2006)

I added a single bag of eco to my new tank setup.
My water was 7ppm TDS now its 17ppm TDS.
I only added gravel and eco.

I plan on doing some more tests then I will do a series of water changes to try and see if this is just an initial dose....I did use the entire bag...the water and all. I am assuming that if it continues to buffer the water the tests will show it.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

If you don't want the water affected at all by the substrate, use quartz sand. You can get colored quartz in many colors, including black, from the 3M corporation. Or, use a fracted clay such as Soilmaster.

I suggest you do enough research to be sure you really do want a soft acidic water tank. The only valid reasons I have seen for that is for a very few plants, and because CO2 injection gives acidic pH readings.


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## 1_Kyle (May 26, 2006)

I have used sand before and I really dont want to use it again do to the whole compacting issue if it is not regularly stirred.


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## Bombay (Mar 3, 2006)

Although you already mentioned it, the interesting thing about the pettex gravel mentioned is that is says the following:
http://www.pettex.co.uk/gravel.html

Decorative aquarium gravel is the ideal way to enhance the appearance of you fish tank. *Made from silica aggregates known for their inert properties and coated in a colourfast resin for trouble free fish keeping.*
• Suitable for all types of aquarium set-ups including coldwater, tropical and saltwater.
• Roman decorative aquarium gravel is also the perfect planting medium due to its finer size.
• Suitable for bottom feeders and barbed fish.
• Increased surface area allows for improved anaerobic activity.
• *Will not change the PH of the water.*
• Available in 2kg and 8kg packs

So the fact that your aquarium gravel "reacts quite violently with vinegar" just doesn't make sense. Sounds like total false advertisement...unless the "roman'" gravel isn't the same as standard pettex gravel. I see it is recommended for plants...although it appears only due to it's relative size.

Did you contact the company about your issue? It would be interesting to see their reply.

BTW - I use eco complete and I would say that it is very much like sand.


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## 1_Kyle (May 26, 2006)

Thats was one of the reasons I bought the gravel becuase it specifically states that. The company I bought it from are going to contact pettex but they are already willing to exchange by the sound of things.

Your eco complete is like sand? What would you say the average grain size of the product is?


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## Bombay (Mar 3, 2006)

Pettex has a website, I would be interested to see what comes straight from the horse's mouth.

Eco
http://www.carib-sea.com/pages/products/fresh/freshplanted.html
Read the product description. It mentions the change in hardness.

The grain size ranges from 1mm to 6mm. Most of it is about the same size as the 'reef sands' at about 1-2mm. Since this is a natural product, I think it tends to vary a bit from batch to batch. Some people say it is black. And while it certainly appears black in the bag, in my tank it appears to be a natural dirt color. It also depends on your lighting.


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## 1_Kyle (May 26, 2006)

Yes me too, ill let you know as soon as I find out.

Thanks for the info Bombay. Are the eco grains small enough to create anaerobic pockets due to compacting like sand, or would you say they are just large enough to avoid this problem?


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## Bombay (Mar 3, 2006)

1_Kyle said:


> Are the eco grains small enough to create anaerobic pockets due to compacting like sand, or would you say they are just large enough to avoid this problem?


The grain size of 1-6mm is the official answer from Carib-Sea. I would say that in the couple bags that I purchased, the grain size is smaller than 1mm...although I have not measured. I believe the eco is of volcanic origin...and very porous. I can't answer that question about the compaction issue. Maybe someone else can. I am not aware of any problems so far, but...


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## 1_Kyle (May 26, 2006)

Ok thanks Bombay.

Any other eco complete users got any negative things to say about it, especially regarding any compaction issues?


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## acbaldwin (Mar 23, 2006)

I've had experience with many differenet substrates, and I think I've settled on ecocomplete as my favorite. I don't know if it affected my kh/gh, since my water is liquid rock in the first place. The grain size ranges from rough sand all the way to medium-small gravel, and is very natural looking. It looks like gardening soil to me. My tank did great with this stuff, never noticed any stress on the livestock in the tank from nitrate spikes or anything. I dose EI so I do 50% water change weekly. I love ecocomplete compared to everything I've tried so far.


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## AnneRiceBowl (May 18, 2006)

acbaldwin said:


> I've had experience with many differenet substrates, and I think I've settled on ecocomplete as my favorite. I don't know if it affected my kh/gh, since my water is liquid rock in the first place. The grain size ranges from rough sand all the way to medium-small gravel, and is very natural looking. It looks like gardening soil to me. My tank did great with this stuff, never noticed any stress on the livestock in the tank from nitrate spikes or anything. I dose EI so I do 50% water change weekly. I love ecocomplete compared to everything I've tried so far.



Same here!!!!

I did have a spike in nitrates, though, but I think that it was more because I was a little too overstocked--I removed a few fish, and the ppm went down.

The one thing that I do NOT like about it is the cost, but you do have to pay for quality! =)

I want to tag on my own question:

How many inches do you EC-users have of EC? Someone thought that I went way overboard with a layer that's about 3"-4" (front of thank to the back). So, in my 30 gallon long (36" long and 12" or 13" wide) I have 4 bags (80lbs.). Did I use too much?


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## acbaldwin (Mar 23, 2006)

Depth depends on what plants you're stocking, but overall 3-4" for a 30 gallon is a bit too much. I had 2-3" in my 20, but as you can see I've got another 2" worth of glosso rooted in reaaaal deep. I used probably 35-40 pounds for my tank. Plus, I got a good deal.


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## triple red (May 27, 2005)

i have 3" in my 30


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## AnneRiceBowl (May 18, 2006)

I read the bag and the web site and asked a "veteran user" of EC, and I was told to use at least a 3'' depth of the stuff. I also used the calculator on here, and it told me that I needed 78 pounds of EC.

I also got a good deal on mine. =) I also have 2 bags that are sitting in my apartment, but, hopefully, I'll use them in a few small tanks I have that are also sitting around. lol


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## Bombay (Mar 3, 2006)

I used I guess an average of 3" in my 20. It is about 2" in the front and 4" in some areas of the back.

I think having an extra bag on hand is always a good idea. Some of the finer particles get sucked up everytime I do a water change. I am sure that eventually I will need to replenish. I kinda wish they sold it dry though.


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## AnneRiceBowl (May 18, 2006)

Bombay, I agree with you on that (selling it dry)--it would help out in having a cheaper shipping cost. But, I think the water is to keep the bacteria alive.


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## Bombay (Mar 3, 2006)

AnneRiceBowl said:


> Bombay, I agree with you on that (selling it dry)--it would help out in having a cheaper shipping cost. But, I think the water is to keep the bacteria alive.


I've read many times on this board that the bacteria provided is not needed...and many doubt that it is actually worth it anyway. Many people advocate not to fishless cycle a planted tank...and they also indicate that cycling a tank (as the fish-only people know it) is not necessary.

If you think about it, about the only cycling product that gets wide-spread kudos is Bio-Spira. I know at least initially it had to be shipped and stored refrigerated so that the correct bacteria wouldn't die.

Another interesting thing is what Seachem has on their website under the Meridian sand:

http://www.seachem.com/products/product_pages/Meridian.html
"Unlike competing "wet" products marketed under the guise of being "live", Meridian™ is sold dry, thus you pay only for gravel and not for unneeded water. These products imply that they contain living, microscopic animals when in fact they only contain common bacteria. Dry or wet, there are bacteria on every substrate available"

If they sold it dry, I would buy it like that.


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## 1_Kyle (May 26, 2006)

Just to update this thread I ended up getting 2 bags of eco - complete and I have to say the stuff is great. Looks great and the plants seem to be doing well, but tanks only been running for 2 weeks.

As for water chemistry - no adverse effects at all. Within 2 weeks and a few minor water changes managed to get pH down to 6.7 stable, its 7.2 out of tap.

KH is exactly the same as out of tap and GH has risen by just 1dh.


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## mwparker29_70 (Jun 4, 2006)

i have a 50 gallon with 3 bags of eco in it , and the plants love it, and i mean love it , they have massive root growth even only a few days after planting anything in it , i use a part of my tank just for clipping to get them started for the other two tanks i have (wich both have the flourite in them) .. between the two i really like the eco compared to the flourite, and may even get another bag for the 50 gallon to make it about 3-4 inches deep all the way around...it does not compact like sand or flourite seems too, and is easy to use .. just pour it in .. i hated the rinsing of the flourite and still wound up with cloudy water for a couple of days (try rex's method for rinsing flourite, i didnt and was sorry i didnt find it untill after i was done) .. but anyways i like the black look to the eco, and all seems to be fine with my tank , no bad batches of the eco for me ...


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## 1_Kyle (May 26, 2006)

ok, now for some bad news on the eco complete. In my last post i stated that the pH was stable and 6.7 which it was but over the last 2 weeks it has slowly risen and seems to have buffered at 7.5. There is nothing else in the tank that could cause it, just bogwood and plants. Looks like im going to have to increase the water changes to get it down!!


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## indyglyder (Jul 14, 2006)

Just a thought since eco-complete raises gh and kh, and ADA aqua soil amazonia lowers gh and kh, if you used the two and mixed them in the right percentage you should have a somewhat stable gh and kh at least that is my opinion on that. Has any one tried it? this is would only be useful of course if you didn't want to alter the gh and kh or wanted to alter less than if one was used alone.


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## indyglyder (Jul 14, 2006)

I use eco- complete water stays around 7.0 -7.2 while when the c02 is shut off.


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## PhiShY92 (Mar 2, 2008)

I have this substrate and it raised my pH.


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## famlee (Mar 1, 2008)

i have eco complete in one of my tanks and it raised my ph up to 7.4. didn't like it.


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## Papas76 (Feb 3, 2008)

I always had low ph usually at 6.0-6.2. I did a gravel change in my 65 with 4 bags of eco complete and my ph rose immediately to 7.2.


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