# Low Tech "Dutch Inspired" - Welcome to the Jungle!! pg5



## Roshan8768 (Mar 18, 2009)

Tank: Standard 20H - 10 years old
Light: Hagen-GLO 2x24 watt T5HO fixture running 2-6700K Fluval LIFEGLO bulbs
Filter: Eheim 2213
Heater: Currently none- water temperature varies from 66-68 in winter months to 76-78 in the summer
Fish:
2 Fancy Goldfish
2 Platies
1 Peppered Corydoras
2 Harlequin Rasboras
5 Black Neon Tetras
6 Neon Tetras
4 Cherry Barbs
1 Female Combtail Bettas
2 Bristlenose catfish (pair)

Plants:
Anubias nana
Microsorum pteropus
Vallisneria
Fontinalis antipyretica (Willow Moss)
Rotala indica
Nymphaea zenkeri (Red Tiger Lotus)
Lilaeopsis brasiliensis (Microsword)

Maintenance:

I change about 15 gallons of water once every two-three months (staggered from filter cleaning), top-off evaporation weekly, trim plants (stems) monthly, and clean the Eheim out every 3-4 months. I also use a magnetic scraper to clean the glass once a month.

Feeding:
I feed my fish 3-5 times a day in the summer months, usually a good goldfish flake. Occasionally they get some frozen brine shrimp, or salmon (whatever's left over from feeding my saltwater tank.) Since my tank is unheated, and since the house temperature is kept at about 68 during the winter, the tank water temperature drops. As a result, the fish don't eat as much as their metabolism slows down. All my fish are accustomed to this change as it happens gradually. I typically feed 1-2 times a day but only 5 days out of the week during these months.

Ferts:
I'm not a big fan of dosing liquid or dry ferts because it's a hassle, and I like to keep my freshwater tanks as low maintenance as possible since I do have a reef aquarium. I have also experimented with DIY CO2, but ultimately came to the conclusion that since I build my tanks around my fish and not my plants, I could do without. Also, CO2 accelerated growth to the point where trimming became a weekly chore which doesn't fit the low maintenance tag. I think that my high levels of stocking, large feedings, combined with the time in between water changes gives the plants a fair amount of food. I also put root tabs (the ones meant for use with pond lillys), in the substrate next to heavy root feeders once a year. I also have some Seachem Chelated Iron and other ferts that I dose if I see nutrient deficiencies (usually shows up in my stems).

I am primarily a fish guy, who likes the look of fish in planted tanks. This is why I got into the planted tank thing, and I think that my current tank reflects that. There are plenty of people on this forum who have better "planted" tanks than me, but I enjoy the activity and energy that fish exhibit especially if given a more natural (driftwood, plants) environment.


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## THE V (Nov 17, 2011)

Just read through the tank journal. Your goldy's are showing oversized heads and extra long fins. Both are classic signs of stunting. Given their age they should be twice that size. 

Just a FYI-


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## Roshan8768 (Mar 18, 2009)

THE V said:


> Just read through the tank journal. Your goldy's are showing oversized heads and extra long fins. Both are classic signs of stunting. Given their age they should be twice that size.
> 
> Just a FYI-


I was not aware of this. I've had the fish for 2 years and bought them quite small at about 1/2 inch body size. They are now about 2.5 inches each. How do you tell if they are stunted? Looking this up right now


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## Roshan8768 (Mar 18, 2009)

Interesting read here:
http://forum.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18433

Water temp & water change schedule are probably the biggest factors. In any case we will have to wait and see, as I usually have my goldfish last a minimum of 5-6 years with the oldest one I've kept reaching just under 10 years old.


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## j-pond (Dec 18, 2008)

THE V said:


> Just read through the tank journal. Your goldy's are showing oversized heads and extra long fins. Both are classic signs of stunting. Given their age they should be twice that size.
> 
> Just a FYI-


They are definitley stunted. They should be in at least a 50gallon tank.
On another note, the tank looks awesome.


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## Roshan8768 (Mar 18, 2009)

j-pond said:


> They are definitley stunted. They should be in at least a 50gallon tank.
> On another note, the tank looks awesome.


Thanks... they will be going in my pond come April.


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## Roshan8768 (Mar 18, 2009)

New pics!!


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## Roshan8768 (Mar 18, 2009)




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## Roshan8768 (Mar 18, 2009)

Stocking update:

4 Platies
1 Peppered Corydoras
11 Harlequin Rasboras
5 Black Neon Tetras
6 Neon Tetras
4 Cherry Barbs
2 Female Combtail Bettas
2 Bristlenose catfish (pair)
2 Angelfish

The goldfish are in the pond for the summer... I may trade in some stuff to make room when I bring them back in


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

I see a goldfish hanging out in the lily in your last pic... thought they were in the pond?


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## Roshan8768 (Mar 18, 2009)

Archerofthemoon said:


> I see a goldfish hanging out in the lily in your last pic... thought they were in the pond?


The fantails are in the pond. My regular goldfish in the pond spawned and there are a couple of babies that I am getting ready to rehome. They are hard to catch, so I get them in groups and throw them in my tank. Once I catch all of them I trade them in at the store (this is way more practical than draining my pond to catch a couple of small fish), That guy and a couple of his bros were traded in to the LFS a couple of weeks ago


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

I like it. It is simple, yet has a very nice color variety in both flora and fauna. Cool tank.


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## Roshan8768 (Mar 18, 2009)

burr740 said:


> I like it. It is simple, yet has a very nice color variety in both flora and fauna. Cool tank.


Thanks!


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## adive (Oct 30, 2013)

Nice tank! When I saw this tank my first impression was it has similarities to mine (in my sig, below) with some exceptions: the "wild uncontrolled growth", with some plants getting kind of too big for the tank - my aponogetons are doing that currently. My tank has all green plants, not the colored ones like yours. Someday I might try the red lotus.

Me too, I make sure the plants are doing good and then its primarily the fish that are of interest to me


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## Roshan8768 (Mar 18, 2009)

adive said:


> Nice tank! When I saw this tank my first impression was it has similarities to mine (in my sig, below) with some exceptions: the "wild uncontrolled growth", with some plants getting kind of too big for the tank - my aponogetons are doing that currently. My tank has all green plants, not the colored ones like yours. Someday I might try the red lotus.
> 
> Me too, I make sure the plants are doing good and then its primarily the fish that are of interest to me


Thanks! Its pretty easy to keep but I think it prefers a sand substrate and it needs root tabs every couple of months, but other than that it's super hardy


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## Roshan8768 (Mar 18, 2009)




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## Roshan8768 (Mar 18, 2009)

New FTS 6/23



I think I need to pick up some new bulbs as the current ones are about a year old, and are definitely dimmer than when they were brand new


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## AGUILAR3 (Jun 22, 2013)

Tank looks great and I really love the tiger lotus but the goldfish looks so out of place.


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## Roshan8768 (Mar 18, 2009)

AGUILAR3 said:


> Tank looks great and I really love the tiger lotus but the goldfish looks so out of place.


Agreed. It's a bit of a tradition/bit of a requirement to have at least 1 goldfish in there at any time in my house. If I had it my way this tank probably wouldn't even be up haha

In other news, hopefully I will have some new plants for this tank to change it up a bit.


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## AGUILAR3 (Jun 22, 2013)

I hear ya. When I use to deliver restaurant supplies, every time I dropped off at an Asian restaurant, I would walk over to the front and check out their fish tanks. Usually goldfish or Arowana tanks.

btw, do you have a video of this tank?


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## Roshan8768 (Mar 18, 2009)

http://youtu.be/nznhEDtFbko

As you can tell this is pretty old. I will try to get a newer one up in the coming weeks


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## AGUILAR3 (Jun 22, 2013)

Even tough I think it's over crowded, it's definitely not a boring tank to watch. So much life and movement.


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## Roshan8768 (Mar 18, 2009)

AGUILAR3 said:


> Even tough I think it's over crowded, it's definitely not a boring tank to watch. So much life and movement.


I think I'm going to trade in the Harlequin rasboras to make some room in the tank. I started with 12 of them a little over a year ago, and the only 1 I lost is due to it jumping before I got a lid for the tank. They are much larger now and even I feel that there is too much traffic going on in this tank. Hopefully I will find a good place for them to go to by the end of fall when I have to bring my goldfish back inside for the winter


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## Roshan8768 (Mar 18, 2009)

As you can see I have added some plants I got in a trade from a user on here called JasterMake. I think I have Cabomba carolina, and some Sunset Hygro, plus some other kind of stem with more narrow olive green leaves (maybe some other kind of hygro?)

I also picked up some stuff:



What do you think the dosing should look like? I'm thinking a capful of Excel every other day, and Iron and Flourish Comprehensive split into half doses twice a week (obviously on different days)


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## Roshan8768 (Mar 18, 2009)

The FTS I put up is pretty messy and it was right after planting a couple of days ago. I will add an updated one tomorrow and you can see how much the plants have grown in ~ 48 hours in my tank


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## AGUILAR3 (Jun 22, 2013)

Tank is looking good. 48 hr growth? Cant wait to see pics.

btw, your moss looks like it's slowly dying away in that last pic.


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## Roshan8768 (Mar 18, 2009)

AGUILAR3 said:


> Tank is looking good. 48 hr growth? Cant wait to see pics.
> 
> btw, your moss looks like it's slowly dying away in that last pic.


Yes, the moss hasn't been that happy as of late. I'm guessing it may have something to do with me needing to change the bulbs. If it's a nutrient issue, the ferts will hopefully take care of it


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## Roshan8768 (Mar 18, 2009)

So it's a little more than 48 hrs, maybe more like 72. I was looking at the time stamp on my phone and it looks like this was right after planting so it's been in there three days now.


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## Roshan8768 (Mar 18, 2009)

So this is what the tank looks like... 2 weeks of growth on the Hygros and Cabomba


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## Roshan8768 (Mar 18, 2009)

I trimmed the rotala and the sunset hygro a little bit. I felt that these two were growing the fastest so I rearranged to avoid any shading issues. I also cleaned off the back glass


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## AGUILAR3 (Jun 22, 2013)

Grown in pic looks great.

I would have a hard time seeing something grow so fast then chopping it down. Luckily for me, I have slow growing crypts so I will probably never have to do that lol


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## Roshan8768 (Mar 18, 2009)

AGUILAR3 said:


> Grown in pic looks great.
> 
> I would have a hard time seeing something grow so fast then chopping it down. Luckily for me, I have slow growing crypts so I will probably never have to do that lol


I don't particularly enjoy it either, but the growth was pretty leggy and kinda nasty looking IMO. Hopefully I can get it how I want it in a couple of weeks.


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## Roshan8768 (Mar 18, 2009)

So I decided to update the summary since it has been about a year since this tank was "reset":

*Tank:* 
Standard 20H - 10 years old
*Light: *
Hagen-GLO 2x24 watt T5HO fixture running :
1-6700K Fluval LIFEGLO 6/30/13
1- ATI Aquabue Special 7/20/14
Photoperiod is from 7AM-12PM and then from 4PM to 9PM.
*Filter: *
Eheim 2213
*Heater:* 
None- water temperature varies from 68-70 in winter months to 77-79 in the summer

*Fish:*
4 Platies
1 Peppered Corydoras
11 Harlequin Rasboras
5 Black Neon Tetras
6 Neon Tetras
1 Cherry Barb
2 Bristlenose catfish (pair)
2 Angelfish

*Plants:*
Anubias nana
Microsorum pteropus
Vallisneria
Fontinalis antipyretica (Willow Moss)
Rotala indica
Nymphaea zenkeri (Red Tiger Lotus)
Lilaeopsis brasiliensis (Microsword)
Cabomba caroliniana
Hygrophila polysperma 'Rosanervig' (Sunset Hygro)
Hygrophila sp. Brown

*Maintenance:*
I change about 5 gallons of water once every two weeks and siphon out all the junk so my sand looks clean, top-off evaporation weekly, trim plants (stems) evey two weeks, and clean the Eheim out every 3-4 months. I also use a magnetic scraper to clean the glass every two weeks.

*Feeding:*
I feed my fish 3-5 times a day in the summer months, NLS Freshwater Flake. Occasionally they get some frozen brine shrimp, or salmon (whatever's left over from feeding my saltwater tank.) I also toss in some frogbit every once in a while and some of the fish eat it. Since my tank is unheated, and since the house temperature is kept at about 68 during the winter, the tank water temperature drops. As a result, the fish don't eat as much as their metabolism slows down. All my fish are accustomed to this change as it happens gradually. I typically feed 1-2 times a day but only 5 days out of the week during these months.

*Ferts:*
I have noticed some deficiencies in my stem plants as the year has gone on, so I have started dosing Excel as recommended 5 days out of the week. I also dose Flourish Complete and Flourish Iron twice a week. This seems to be helping the plants achieve healthier growth


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## Roshan8768 (Mar 18, 2009)

Hard to believe it started from this:


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## The Dude (Feb 8, 2011)

I'm amazed and encouraged that you are able to keep so many fish in that size tank. It looks great. I recently restarted my own 20G and I'm letting the new plants get a firm hold while I decide on inhabitants. 
Did the Cherry Barbs not fair well?


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## Roshan8768 (Mar 18, 2009)

The Dude said:


> I'm amazed and encouraged that you are able to keep so many fish in that size tank. It looks great. I recently restarted my own 20G and I'm letting the new plants get a firm hold while I decide on inhabitants.
> Did the Cherry Barbs not fair well?


They did. I actually ended up re-homing them because they looked out of place. Thought I had 4, apparently I had 5. Returned back home and noticed that there was still one in the tank :tongue: Guess she wanted to stay

Good luck!! I think appropriate filtration and good lighting are the most important things in this hobby. What are you thinking about stocking in your new tank?


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## The Dude (Feb 8, 2011)

Roshan8768 said:


> They did. I actually ended up re-homing them because they looked out of place. Thought I had 4, apparently I had 5. Returned back home and noticed that there was still one in the tank :tongue: Guess she wanted to stay
> 
> Good luck!! I think appropriate filtration and good lighting are the most important things in this hobby. What are you thinking about stocking in your new tank?


It's changed many times mostly because I want it to be an active tank. My Cory Cats just had eggs so if those hatch I will put some in the 20. I'm also doing some Oto's and there are cherry shrimp already in there. I really seem drawn to the emperor tetras at the moment. 
Maybe since my Snakeskin guppies had fry I'll put a few in there.


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## Roshan8768 (Mar 18, 2009)

The Dude said:


> It's changed many times mostly because I want it to be an active tank. My Cory Cats just had eggs so if those hatch I will put some in the 20. I'm also doing some Oto's and there are cherry shrimp already in there. I really seem drawn to the emperor tetras at the moment.
> Maybe since my Snakeskin guppies had fry I'll put a few in there.


Sounds like it could be awesome. I think the emperors will go to town on the shrimp though since they are pretty big for a tetra. There will be some changes in the stocking of my tank as well by the beginning of September


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## The Dude (Feb 8, 2011)

Roshan8768 said:


> Sounds like it could be awesome. I think the emperors will go to town on the shrimp though since they are pretty big for a tetra. There will be some changes in the stocking of my tank as well by the beginning of September


You would think that, but it's been my experience that with a large enough colony, enough time, and lots of driftwood, RCS can still thrive in the presence of predators.
I originally started with 15 in my 46g that has a bunch of driftwood and has grown in well. The tank now has 6 Rosy Barbs, a large Lyretail Molly, an Adult Angel, 5 Cory catfish, and an adult BN Pleco. I always see RCS zooming around the tank at feeding time. I accidentally turned over one of the larger driftwood a the other day and found a large colony of at least 100 Red Cherry Shrimp. 
What are you thinking of stocking?? Very interested


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## Roshan8768 (Mar 18, 2009)

The Dude said:


> You would think that, but it's been my experience that with a large enough colony, enough time, and lots of driftwood, RCS can still thrive in the presence of predators.
> I originally started with 15 in my 46g that has a bunch of driftwood and has grown in well. The tank now has 6 Rosy Barbs, a large Lyretail Molly, an Adult Angel, 5 Cory catfish, and an adult BN Pleco. I always see RCS zooming around the tank at feeding time. I accidentally turned over one of the larger driftwood a the other day and found a large colony of at least 100 Red Cherry Shrimp.
> What are you thinking of stocking?? Very interested


Hmm... maybe I should try a group of cherries if I can find them for cheap! I plan on removing all the Harlequin Rasboras... they're super skittish and not that exciting. Also, if my Angel's don't pair up in the next couple of months they will need to be traded in as they will likely bully each other to death. I don't really want just one, so most likely both will go. The fancy goldfish will have to come back inside for the winter months so I need to make room!! I may get 6-8 more neons if I find some healthy looking ones.


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## Roshan8768 (Mar 18, 2009)

Welcome to the jungle!!!



Bump:


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## AGUILAR3 (Jun 22, 2013)

Nice, what's the current livestock?


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## Roshan8768 (Mar 18, 2009)

AGUILAR3 said:


> Nice, what's the current livestock?


Should be the same as a couple posts up. I pulled all the vals I could find and rearranged a little bit to make more space. Also lost 1 platy at some point in the last 3 weeks. I'll have more pics of the post trim look up soon


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## Roshan8768 (Mar 18, 2009)

Bump: It's pretty hard to get a good picture where the light doesn't bounce of the sunset hygro. It actually contrasts really nicely with the red tiger lotus. It's also filled in a lot more in the last 48 hrs. I may pick up some smaller crypts to help break up the harsh transition from the stems in the back to the micro sword


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## Padraig Pearse (May 26, 2013)

Really lovin' the different color and texture juxtapositions. Must look wild up close with all those different fish too. Good job.


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## Roshan8768 (Mar 18, 2009)

Padraig Pearse said:


> Really lovin' the different color and texture juxtapositions. Must look wild up close with all those different fish too. Good job.


Thanks! I'm not super happy with it yet, but it's come a long way in the last year or so. I need to get a video with all the fish moving around so you guys get a feel for the activity level in this tank


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## Roshan8768 (Mar 18, 2009)




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## adive (Oct 30, 2013)

What's the bright light pink plant growing tall @ the centre? H. Polysperma? I think I got it recently & the 1st time a non green plants doing grt in my tank.


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## Roshan8768 (Mar 18, 2009)

Yes it is Sunset Hygro or Hygrophila polysperma Rosanervig


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## AGUILAR3 (Jun 22, 2013)

We definitely need a video.


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## Roshan8768 (Mar 18, 2009)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIQZSxxwWOY

Nothing fancy, but you can see the fish :icon_roll I'm pulling the angelfish next weekend at which time they should be headed to a nice planted 75


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## AGUILAR3 (Jun 22, 2013)

Yeah, those angels should have never been in there in the first place. I wouldn't be able to sleep knowing that one angel was being so aggressive towards the other fish. If it was my tank, I would definitely remove the Angels and Platies.


The scape looks great though. I know you aren't quite happy with it just yet but the wide variety of plants look really good together.


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## Roshan8768 (Mar 18, 2009)

Angels and Harlequins are moving out tomorrow!!

Also, got home to this mess!!



After some work with a razorblade and cleaning off some mystery gunk on the front glass:



Water change in progress:


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## AGUILAR3 (Jun 22, 2013)

Bummer. Removed some plants? Are they staying out?


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## Roshan8768 (Mar 18, 2009)

AGUILAR3 said:


> Bummer. Removed some plants? Are they staying out?


Oh no, that's how I do my trims. I chop the stems at the desired height and pull the tops. Then I "mow" whatever's left of the especially ratty looking bottoms that have roots coming out all over the place. I toss these bits and then replant the tops. Hope that made sense

Bump: I'll have some more pics tomorrow once it all settles out and the fish are moved out.


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## AGUILAR3 (Jun 22, 2013)

Roshan8768 said:


> Oh no, that's how I do my trims. I chop the stems at the desired height and pull the tops. Then I "mow" whatever's left of the especially ratty looking bottoms that have roots coming out all over the place. I toss these bits and then replant the tops. Hope that made sense
> 
> Bump: I'll have some more pics tomorrow once it all settles out and the fish are moved out.


Got it. Remove the ratty bottoms and replant the lush greener and healthier tops.

BTW, why remove the harlequins?


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## Roshan8768 (Mar 18, 2009)

AGUILAR3 said:


> Got it. Remove the ratty bottoms and replant the lush greener and healthier tops.
> 
> BTW, why remove the harlequins?


For the most part you got it. I leave some of the bottoms in if they are sending out small shoots, but I snip off the stem so it's at substrate level hence the "mowing"

They're super skittish... they're the only reason why I have a top on this tank because one jumped a while back which is pretty annoying. More importantly, the goldfish will need room when they come back inside for the winter.


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## Roshan8768 (Mar 18, 2009)

New FTS 11/9



Had someone else trim the plants for me a couple weeks ago and they went a little overboard. They must also have tossed all the moss?? because I barely have any left. Tank is not looking fantastic right now, but fish are happy and the plants will recover given time


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## blackacura (May 4, 2014)

Very clean look, I love it


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## ForensicFish (May 19, 2013)

The goldfish are back?


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## Roshan8768 (Mar 18, 2009)

blackacura said:


> Very clean look, I love it


Thanks, but this is probably the worst the tank has looked in 2-3 months. There's also some hair algae issues on the anubias. Hopefully it will be back to its best soon

Bump:


ForensicFish said:


> The goldfish are back?


They were in my pond for the summer. The overnight temperature is starting to drop into the 40s and they don't handle that very well, so they are back inside until it is warm enough for them to go back out in the spring


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## Roshan8768 (Mar 18, 2009)

Tank is having some algae issues... will cut light hours and up excel dosing


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## Roshan8768 (Mar 18, 2009)

Need to trim up and remove some things... it's pretty crazy in there right now


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## babarian16 (Dec 27, 2014)

What is your excel dosing schedule? Is it consistent or do you just dose every so often for a "growth spurt".
I would like to use excel but not if it means I have to commit to a strict regime after as my tank is 90 gal which would cost alot to dose excel often...

Great tank though, saw this post right before bed and couldn't put it down until I went through it all!


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## Roshan8768 (Mar 18, 2009)

babarian16 said:


> What is your excel dosing schedule? Is it consistent or do you just dose every so often for a "growth spurt".
> I would like to use excel but not if it means I have to commit to a strict regime after as my tank is 90 gal which would cost alot to dose excel often...
> 
> Great tank though, saw this post right before bed and couldn't put it down until I went through it all!



Thanks! 

I wouldn't say that I dose on a strict regimen. I dose Iron and Micro nutrients on Saturday and Sunday. Because I have been having some algae issues as of late, I have tried to be more consistent with the excel dosing which is currently at half the recommended dose every other day. My hypothesis is that the algae is likely caused by the plants taking up less of the nutrients. I don't have a heater, and with it being winter I think the water temp is probably around 66-72 vs the 76-78 you get for most of the year.

The growth rate on most of the plants has also slowed noticeably. From August-December I wasn't really dosing with a schedule, just whenever I felt like the growth needed a boost as you mentioned. Probably wasn't needed. I'm trying to stick with it while the water is cooler to limit algae though

Let me know if you have anymore questions, and thanks for stopping by!


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## Roshan8768 (Mar 18, 2009)

Updated stock list: 
2 x Fancy Goldfish
2 x Bristlenose Plecos
6 x Neon tetras
5 x Black Neon Tetras
5 x Celestial Pearl Danios
2 x Harlequin Rasboras
1 x Peppered Cory Cat


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