# 3ft - attempt at high tech



## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

So, I've had half attempts in the past, gave up the hobby for a few years due to work and life commitments, but now am giving it a go. Appreciate any and all comments, advice or criticisms. 

*The equipment:*
Cade CB900 - 90 x 50 x 50
Eheim Pro 2073
Hydor Inline Heater 300W
Cal Aqua Lily pipes
*Lighting*
Cade Lighting Stand/hanging kit
EcoTech Radeon XR15 x 2
Ecotech Radeon Rail Kit - Long
*Substrate*
ADA Amazonia Soil
ADA Amazonia Powder
ADA La Plata Sand
*Hardscape*
Seiryu Stone - like a tonne!
*Co2*
Co2 Pro tank from my attempt 4 years ago
AquaMedic Solenoid
Tunze regulator

Inspiration after months of following the work of a few of the PT members, and the result will be combination of quite a few, plus Amano etc etc.

Questions: 
1 - have already had Amazonia in the tank running for a week, and will be using the LA Plata Sand in the next few days. I notice quite alot of clouding if i disturb the Amazonia, so would it be best to syphon out the areas where I'll be placing the sand as opposed to moving it with a shovel/spoon?

2 - Do i need to use plastic card to separate the sand and soil?

Setup initially a week ago:
















Tried working on scapes using a towel that fit the dimensions of the base. 








great in theory... very different when in the tank and working with Amazoinia soil.  lets just say it was a long night!!


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

My inital inspiration:
Green & Grey Iwagumi


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

Right, current scape with tank filled. Definitely not in love with it and the transition from the towel to inside the tank meant it didn't quite work. Thoughts?








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I am contemplating:
1 - ditching the sand running through the centre and having a beach rather than a stream through the centre
2 - repositioning rocks and making soil higher in the background with mounds on left and right.

Any feedback appreciated guys


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## zuc (Mar 29, 2012)

If you are putting sand, yes, you should put a plastic divider. Unless you have a fast-growing foreground to keep the substrate in place, the sand and gravel will mix fast without a divider.


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

zuc said:


> If you are putting sand, yes, you should put a plastic divider. Unless you have a fast-growing foreground to keep the substrate in place, the sand and gravel will mix fast without a divider.


Have made the call to scratch the sand!

EDIT: actually, might keep it, use dividers and remove the middle stream down the middle. not sure yet but have to make the call tonight as plants arriving tomorrow


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

So, completely removed everything from the tank except that last 1cm of water, drove me nuts... lessons learned, no water till the scape is done!!

Here are the 4 viewing angles and sorry for the low quality phone pics:
Front:


Top front:

Left side:


Right side:


Thoughts and critique very much appreciated...
As you can see below, i have a tonne of rock left, and a load of artists polystyrene.


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## ChemGuyEthan (Apr 13, 2014)

Nice man, liking the new scape!

Nice perspective from the front and sides. Not a fan of the angle in the last picture...but maybe with plants it will look a little more natural.

What's the plant list?


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## Xiaozhuang (Feb 15, 2012)

both rock scapes are nice


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

ChemGuyEthan said:


> Nice man, liking the new scape!


cheers!!  not without a little frustration!!



ChemGuyEthan said:


> Nice perspective from the front and sides. Not a fan of the angle in the last picture...but maybe with plants it will look a little more natural.


yeah, quite different in photos than when viewing directly, but i was surprised by the odd angle, might build out the back of that main stone a bit with smaller pieces to improve that angle underneath and to the left in that shot.



ChemGuyEthan said:


> What's the plant list?


it evolved from just Eleo Bele, and Hemianthus Micran. to:
Eleocharis Belem
Ludwigia senegalensis
Heteranthera zosterifolia
US Fissiden
Cryptocoryne parva
Pogostemon helferi 
Hemianthus Micranthemoides




Xiaozhuang said:


> both rock scapes are nice


Thanks man.


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

wow, had no idea planting eleo would be so time consuming. one large matt of twisted up grass and 6 pots...= hundreds of individual plantings. So, after HOURS...i only started planting the tank at like midnight last night. a lesson in patience indeed! Will post pics when i'm caught up on sleep


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

Prepping for planting

































Helpers









After planting


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

Tank this morning before i do another water change. The discolouration doesn't come up in the pics, but its a cloudy yellowish. Sorry for phone shots, need to organise a proper camera.


Is this normal melt on the zosterfolia and L. Senegalensis? I am wondering if it might be that i had excel in the water i was using to spray the plants while planting!?


and one of the pots of eleo had a small bunch of very healthy HC in it, so chucked it in to see if it works


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

*Day 5 update*

sorry its image heavy and only phone shots. Looks like new growth on the eleo belem which is good. came from 2 batches, one was emersed grown (jeff at LCA) and the other submersed (zaquatics) the submersed being the back right of the tank, you can clearly see the lighter green colouration and a higher rate of first growth.
















Lud. Senegalensis, H. Micran and the other stems all have had melt but the new growth on the tips looks solid and bright already. so i trimmed and planted the tops of the H Micran.
























Ludwigia Glandulosa had no melt at all:








The random bits of HC that snuck into my eleo pots from LCA are pearling and growing fast! is that normal?









Pogo yellowing slightly









Added a little of the Anubias Nana which i assume is either super petite or just come from a low tech tank....i've had it for years and its overtaken a small piece of driftwood. had to clear off some tough BBA and a little bath with excel (despite recent lessons) then it went in to try it out. second shot gives you a size perspective of the leaves, they only grow maybe 60% larger.
















FTS:


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## ChemGuyEthan (Apr 13, 2014)

Nice, man! Looking good. Can't comment too much on the melt. I would say that hopefully you're blasting in the CO2. When I had some emmersed HC I pumped the CO2 to keep my drop checker yellow for the first two weeks, then slowly dialed it back down to green over the next week. I had zero melt when I did this.

That moss on the SS mesh looks a little...brown, haha. Hopefully that makes a comeback!

Looking forward to seeing this grow in!

Best of luck!


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

Yup... co2 is blasting.  the fissidens got burnt when I accidentally exposed it to high concentration of excel. :s hopefully it comes back.


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## Xiaozhuang (Feb 15, 2012)

seems like its off to a good start. so much hairgrass! your Heteranthera zosterifolia looks like blxya japonica though


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

i know, the stems were trimmed right down. i do like Blyxa!


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## Dan110024 (Jul 14, 2014)

ropate said:


>



Loving the scape in that last photo! I wasn't so sure before the plants were added, but that looks great.

I remember my first experience with hair grass lol. I think it's natural to over order on the first time and underestimate the amount of work required. Well, I over ordered anyway haha. Looks like you scored with the random bunch of HC and good to see it's growing so well for you. I think it's one of those plants that you can get a lot from such a small amount. Oh and I like the anubias stuck into the crack of the rock. 


I like seeing other tanks from Australia. We've got such limited selection of plants compared to the US. Always good to see well thought out scapes.


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

why thanks mate. i agree, seeing some of the flora available in the US and other areas makes me a little jealous.  

i do think that looking directly from the front at tank level, there is a big line of strainght soil from left to right as you can't see the perspective of the slope. might need another stone or 2. thoughts?

saw your thread, if you want HG, i have tonnes in another tank.


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

I'm definitely thinking the melt is brought on by the accidental use of excel when I planted. Worried that the Lud. Senegalensis and the Syngonanthus won't survive?! 

Should I pull them and reorder or wait it out?


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## Xiaozhuang (Feb 15, 2012)

If the stems are alive, they might regenerate leaves Hmm.. the L. Senegalensis
looks like it might have a chance


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

Xiaozhuang said:


> If the stems are alive, they might regenerate leaves Hmm.. the L. Senegalensis
> looks like it might have a chance


thanks, fingers crossed. have ordered more anyway


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## xxstitch69xx (Aug 6, 2014)

love this tank, can't wait to see your progress


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

2 questions...

First, please tell me this is not some type of algae on my crypt parva:









Second, Eleo belem is growing well. Just did a trim to encourage root growth on advice. Am a little worried as one batch appears to be growing straight and tall. Whereas the other (front of tank in the first picture) is growing bent down to substrate as expected. 

The eleo growing straight was grown submersed whereas the other appeared to be grown emersed based on leaf colour being so dark.

Anyone with belem experience like this?


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

xxstitch69xx said:


> love this tank, can't wait to see your progress


Thanks! ! [emoji4]


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## xxstitch69xx (Aug 6, 2014)

ropate said:


> Thanks! ! [emoji4]


you're welcome buddy!


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

Look what must have snuck in on one of my plant purchases. And berried!


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## knm<>< (Mar 18, 2010)

Well, aren't you the lucky one! That's a nice hitch hiker right there.


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## Dropped (Oct 14, 2014)

Im sure you would have seen that when you were placing the plants..... are you sure someone has not put that shrimp in there?


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

Dropped said:


> Im sure you would have seen that when you were placing the plants..... are you sure someone has not put that shrimp in there?


I'm guessing she came in as quite a young one and is only berried now because she's mated with one of my normal red cherries.


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## Dropped (Oct 14, 2014)

Ahh right that would make more sense, or she changed colour? do they even do that?

Bump: I love this tank it is exactly the setup i want, just cant find it here in NZ haha.

also where did you get the ADA soil?


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

Haha, cade might have a distributor in NZ. Ask adam via www.aquascapedesign.com.au

ADA Amazonia is in most of the LFS here. I am in NZ every couple months. I could possibly bring some stuff across although the soil comes in 9kg bags and my 3 ft has 4 bags in it. So soil might be an issue ha. Maybe try and order it online if you can't find it. 

As for shrimp, no they don't change to yellow. Those have been selectively bred. There are shrimp here called chameleons that change but they go between clear, solid brown with a white stripe or speckled red.


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

DAY 8 UPDATE
right, replacements arrived from Liverpool Creek Aquarium with a few extras and a replacement fissidens (thanks Jeff) and zaquatics.

Went in and pulled out all the dead and salvaged what looked like it had growth.

May have over ordered the Lud. Senegalensis and don't like wasting so have put it all in. Pogo replaced and parkeri added! The Lud. Inclanata pantanal and normal are also in although I'm not sure which was which exactly. Chucked em under the light so had to move the Lud. Glandulosa down a bit. So between the 2 main rocks is mostly red...I do have a small bunch of baby tears in there for colour contrast. Will see how it grows in.






















you'll see quite a bit of space behind and around the main rocks, this is for the hemianthus micranthemoides when i'm able to trim and spread it out more.

Eleo growing fast, the part of the 'field' directly in the path of the filter outlet and co2 is growing really fast. Not sure if it's just the submersed grown batch outpacing the rest of it though... 
















Full tank shot... would appreciate comments, suggestions. 









One separate question, the new growth on the glandulosa is green, do I need to start dosing proper?


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## Xiaozhuang (Feb 15, 2012)

You need to chill man... ha L glandulosa is slow to react; probably the slowest plant in your tank but I think your tank conditions are just fine. Hmm it also gets quite large actually, if healthy, I think it's the largest plant in your tank and it'll easily over shadow the L. senegalensis behind it ?

The fastest plant here to react to ferts is L. pantanal; if its growing well, everything else will do well. It'll also grow 3-6inches a week, so be prepared to do a lot of pruning lol.

L. glandulosa is the one at the right rear; hitting the top of a 20inch tall tank...


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

Haha... chill indeed. Well see how it goes then. Am away for 4 days on holiday so will see what's up when I'm back.

I had heard from other forums that when L. Glandulosa is trimmed and under high lights it stays low and bushes out.

And love your scape!


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## Dropped (Oct 14, 2014)

ropate said:


> Haha, cade might have a distributor in NZ. Ask adam via www.aquascapedesign.com.au
> 
> ADA Amazonia is in most of the LFS here. I am in NZ every couple months. I could possibly bring some stuff across although the soil comes in 9kg bags and my 3 ft has 4 bags in it. So soil might be an issue ha. Maybe try and order it online if you can't find it.
> 
> As for shrimp, no they don't change to yellow. Those have been selectively bred. There are shrimp here called chameleons that change but they go between clear, solid brown with a white stripe or speckled red.



bugger there is no CADE distro in nz, the aussie guys offered to ship but that will cost me an arm and a leg haha.

Bump:


ropate said:


> Haha, cade might have a distributor in NZ. Ask adam via www.aquascapedesign.com.au
> 
> ADA Amazonia is in most of the LFS here. I am in NZ every couple months. I could possibly bring some stuff across although the soil comes in 9kg bags and my 3 ft has 4 bags in it. So soil might be an issue ha. Maybe try and order it online if you can't find it.
> 
> As for shrimp, no they don't change to yellow. Those have been selectively bred. There are shrimp here called chameleons that change but they go between clear, solid brown with a white stripe or speckled red.



bugger there is no CADE distro in nz, the aussie guys offered to ship but that will cost me an arm and a leg haha.


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

Oh damn... did they quite the shipping?


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## Dropped (Oct 14, 2014)

nope not yet, i think they are getting back to me though.

hows your hair grass growing? mines doubled in height this week.


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

Mmm... must be straight eleocharis. I'm in fiji for the weekend so I don't know yet how it is.


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

*Day 12 update*

After being away in the islands for a few days and letting the replacement plants settle in, the tank water was completely clear on my return today. There was a thick brown film on the surface which you can just make out in the FTS below, bu that came off easily. I assume it was to do with the topsoil and the settling of the amazonia.


Eleo is growing in well and the various lud. varieties seem to be doing ok. The eleo is showing alot of root gorwth however the height and legth of the blades of grass are a concern. Is it that the light isn't on strong enough for long enough? its on a shceule that has full brightness only for 4 - 5 hours in themiddle of the day with graduated increases to that in the morning and a grwdual decrease to night time. Thinking they should just be on full bore for longer periods.




The reactor arrived today so will work on the hosing this weekend and get it all set up. Voila, thoughts on placement, structure etc always appreciated. Particularly with the placement of the stem plants at the back. wanting to have the colour contrast of the lud. senegalensis with the heminathus micranthemoides.


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## Dropped (Oct 14, 2014)

my grass grows that long as well, i have not trimmed it this week so ill let you know how it goes.

So far i cant find any information on trimming it to promote growth or just let it grow..


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

Trim it to promote root growth and spread if you're after a carpet.


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## Dropped (Oct 14, 2014)

Yea im after carpet, but its starting to look good long so i dont want to chop it.

Plus its a [censored][censored][censored][censored] to clean up once you have trimmed it goes everywhere!!!


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

couple quikies...
lud senegalensis is growing beautifully, new growth has good colour


the pantanal appears to be doing ok so far but the lud. inclinata and the Hemianthus Micranthemoides appear to have had a good bout of growth then the leaves have begun to melt. 


Ammonia is still around .5 mg/l with daily 50% water changes now and ph of between 5.5 and 6.


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## Dropped (Oct 14, 2014)

how do you find the inline heater? have you had any issues with it?


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

None at all... works a treat


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

*Day 24 mini update*

Hairgrass doing very well and growing, although alot of the runners are staying above the substrate, which is a little unsightly. Is this normal? HC that snuck in amongst my eleo belem pots from LCA is doing well too, slower but growing. 


All the lud. stems are settling in and colouring up some, although the senegalensis is quite orange/red already. 


Contemplating removing the senegalensis from the back left and leaving the whole border of the tank as greens with the reds centred around the rocks. not sure though...will see how it goes. Also, the glandulosa leaves are alot larger than i thought they'd be so might look at something like alternanthera reineckii mini, as the leaves look much smaller. Love the eventual colour of the glandulosa though.


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

sorry, image heavy - some updated pics using an actual camera. Love the pantanal and senegalensis, but can't capture the reds/oramges correctly.


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## Xiaozhuang (Feb 15, 2012)

Looking good man....


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## ChemGuyEthan (Apr 13, 2014)

Nice! Things are really filling in nicely! Great job!


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## Dropped (Oct 14, 2014)

Have you been trimming the HG at all?


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

Xiaozhuang said:


> Looking good man....





ChemGuyEthan said:


> Nice! Things are really filling in nicely! Great job!


Thanks guys, any idea why my h. Micranthemoides (glomeratus) might be melting back after new growth ever couple days?


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## ChemGuyEthan (Apr 13, 2014)

Hmm, not sure. Made any big changes lately that might make it upset? Seems unlikely if everything else is doing ok. Not really sure what to tell you. Hopefully it'll bounce back.


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

Nothing other than water changes. It seems I have a couple patches of browning/melting dhg and some of the l. Inclanata stems seem to have melted at the base and floated up. But overall it's healthy.


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

Dropped said:


> Have you been trimming the HG at all?


Yep, it's had 2 trims now to promote spread.


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## Chris_Produces (Feb 19, 2014)

Is it this cloudy in real life or is it just the picture?


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

Chris_Produces said:


> Is it this cloudy in real life or is it just the picture?


It is consistently not crystal clear. I put that down to it being a new tank, but it is annoying. Any advice?


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## Dropped (Oct 14, 2014)

Have you checked your cycle? did it complete?


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

Yup... ammonia 0


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## Dropped (Oct 14, 2014)

Have you been feeding your fish milk


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

Ha... you'd bloody think so


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## Dropped (Oct 14, 2014)

ropate said:


> Ha... you'd bloody think so


On a more helpful note, i find that if i leave my lights on to long my water will go cloudy, you could try and reduce you photo period which may help.


to get rid of it in my tank, ill do a water change then reduce the amount of time the lights stay of for, which works 99% of the time and the water goes back to crystal clear.


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

I think it's just a bacterial bloom. Tank is only 6 weeks old after old. But thanks for that. Have dropped photo period slightly


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

Argh... went away on 3 day business trip and an office assistant was over helpful and decided to dose some of the ferts. At a guess. 

Returned to this
















Presume I can just cut out the lud. Senegalensis and then scrub down rocks and glass, big WC and I should be ok?


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## Chris_Produces (Feb 19, 2014)

I believe I would lay the smack down on this somebody


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## ChemGuyEthan (Apr 13, 2014)

Nooooooooo! I hate that algae with a passion. Can't seem to get rid of the stuff...

Not to discourage you... I've read peroxide helps with this stuff, and increased flow. I've also been removing as much as I can by hand.

Hope yours goes away. I am leaving for Christmas soon and my tanks will be unattended for 8 days so I hope all will be well.

Best of luck!


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

Chris_Produces said:


> I believe I would lay the smack down on this somebody


her leave application has been denied. I think that's sufficient [emoji14]


ChemGuyEthan said:


> Nooooooooo! I hate that algae with a passion. Can't seem to get rid of the stuff...
> 
> Not to discourage you... I've read peroxide helps with this stuff, and increased flow. I've also been removing as much as I can by hand.
> 
> ...


I actually did a scrub down on the glass cut out the affected stems and this morning it's looking like the cleanup crew have gone to work quite well...

Got a uv sterilizer in there too. So fingers crossed the shrimp and otos get into the hair grass and get at the algae all stuck in there :s

Lost 2 otos with the cleanup though :s


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## Dropped (Oct 14, 2014)

Oh the other hand... that DHG looks great!


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

Dropped said:


> Oh the other hand... that DHG looks great!


It does!! Although probably because it's thick with algae. From a distance, and in a phone photo it does look awesome though.


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## dru (Mar 9, 2013)

Hope your tank recovers, it was looking great 

Do you know what your assistant dosed? That is a crazy 3 day turnaround


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

Thanks mate, me too. Its coming back slowly. She reckoned Flourish, iron, bright k and green gain


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

Boxing Day update: Day 45

Merry Christmas all, so algae update... the DAS, Otos and SAE have made short work of cleaning off all of the hardscape and are slowly cutting into the algae clogged HG. I just did a massive trim of the HG and cut out the worst of the algae mats. Still a little left, but at the rate the cleanup crew is going, shouldn't be an issue. Sorry for phone shots.


Trimmed back the stems and shifting the remaining Lud. Senegalensis into the centre of the tank. want to try keeping the borders green. 


Updated flora, added Alternanthera reineckii mini and new HC to the little plot where i had to pull out algae engulfed HC.


Added staurogyne repens and Micranthemum umbrosum to the background to see if it does better than the Glomeratus which isn't doing as well as in my low tech tank.


In other news, the little bit of what i thought was limno. vietnam (but in fact turned out to be incorrectly shipped Rotala sp green) that survived my little excel accident a few weeks ago has come back in force!


FTS


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## dru (Mar 9, 2013)

Looking good again!

I am using your scape as inspiration on my 60p

I will have to score some of that Ludwigia Senegalensis


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## ichristos (Aug 25, 2014)

Hi, I am struggling with DHG for 5 weeks now. I am using high cec substrate, ei and inject co2. How much do you attribute to Amazonia and substrate additives to your great success in carpeting dhg so fast? :thumbsup:


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

ichristos said:


> Hi, I am struggling with DHG for 5 weeks now. I am using high cec substrate, ei and inject co2. How much do you attribute to Amazonia and substrate additives to your great success in carpeting dhg so fast? [emoji106]


Hey mate, I didn't put any additives into the substrate. Was advised against it on another forum as the ada aqua soil is rich enough for what I was going for. 

What is cc substrate? Is it a soil?


dru said:


> Looking good again!
> 
> I am using your scape as inspiration on my 60p
> 
> I will have to score some of that Ludwigia Senegalensis


Awesome thanks. Can you get senegalensis in NZ?


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## ichristos (Aug 25, 2014)

ropate said:


> What is cc substrate? Is it a soil?


From wikipedia
_"When growing aquatic plants, the *Cation Exchange Capacity[8] (CEC)* is also an important thing to consider when choosing a substrate. CEC is the ability to absorb positively charged nutrient ions (so high CEC is good). This means the substrate will hold nutrients and make them available for the plant roots. It doesn’t indicate the amount of nutrients the substrate contains."_

But still, my growth is nowhere near yours... Well done!


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

ichristos said:


> From wikipedia
> _"When growing aquatic plants, the *Cation Exchange Capacity[8] (CEC)* is also an important thing to consider when choosing a substrate. CEC is the ability to absorb positively charged nutrient ions (so high CEC is good). This means the substrate will hold nutrients and make them available for the plant roots. It doesn’t indicate the amount of nutrients the substrate contains."_
> 
> But still, my growth is nowhere near yours... Well done!


Got ya... according to Tom barr, aquasoil is high cec as well. Did you get your DHG submersed grown? Is it definitely belem? What's your KH? Co2 bubble rate?


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## ichristos (Aug 25, 2014)

ropate said:


> Did you get your DHG submersed grown?


Its the Tropica brand. Got it in a pot with the usual rock wool material. 



ropate said:


> Is it definitely belem? What's your KH? Co2 bubble rate?


It's Eleocharis Parvula. 
My KH is 9. 

pH profile

co2 on @ 1100. pH is 7,9
lights on @ 1300. pH is 6,8
co2 off @ 1800. pH is 6,7
lights off @ 1900. 

co2 bubble rate is too high to count...

Tank is lit with 3x 32W cfl bulbs arranged vertically in reflective domes about 55cm above substrate.


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

ichristos said:


> Its the Tropica brand. Got it in a pot with the usual rock wool material.
> 
> 
> It's Eleocharis Parvula.
> ...


ok, probably gorwn emersed so it will take a little longer to establish than submerse grown. Half of my original planting was grown emersed... however it was pretty quick to settle (not as quick as the other stock). I've not had experience with Parvula, but from what i see in plat profiles, the requirements are about the same. just not sure the runners/carpeting effect is at the same speed.

How big is your tank? and how are you diffusing co2?

With such a high bubble rate, its odd that your pH is still relatively high. mine sits on 6 now when lights come on as i start it about 40 minutes before lights on. however prior to getting my SAE and Otos in there, it was on crazy full bore and pH was consistently just below 6.


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## ichristos (Aug 25, 2014)

ropate said:


> How big is your tank? and how are you diffusing co2?
> bubble rate, its odd that your pH is still relatively high.


Hi Happy new Year.

I am using an inline atomizer and enhance circulation with a power head.
My drop of 1 pH I understand means 30ppm of co2.
Tank is about 50G (140cm x 40cm x 35(h)cm)
Next step is to install a spraybar @ length of tank for better circulation.


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## dru (Mar 9, 2013)

I get the best reds out of my tanks with t5/CFLs

I have been disappointed so far with the reds in my LED tanks (wavepoint / current)

Love that FTS!


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

dru said:


> I get the best reds out of my tanks with t5/CFLs
> 
> I have been disappointed so far with the reds in my LED tanks (wavepoint / current)
> 
> Love that FTS!


so you reckon its the light then! spectrum or intentsity? my belem seems to be staying low as is the HC. Some of the other stems are a bit leggy.


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## Raul-7 (Oct 17, 2003)

dru said:


> I get the best reds out of my tanks with t5/CFLs
> 
> I have been disappointed so far with the reds in my LED tanks (wavepoint / current)
> 
> Love that FTS!


This is what I noticed from tanks lit with LEDs; the red plants don't seem to do as well unless the tank is really shallow. 

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=316009&highlight=micmol&page=5

I think it has to with the lack of output from LEDs in certain wavelengths; especially in the red regions hence why red plants look dull. 

The same has been found in SPS corals [great read]:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2198810

Quote from Sanjay Joshi---
"As seen from the data, there are significant spectral differences between the LED spectrum and those of the most popular MH lamps. The LEDs tend to have more output in the blue regions 400-500 nm range, while lacking in the warmer regions of the spectrum. This could explain why the aquariums tend to have a "flat" look when lit by LEDs. *Lack of the red spectrum results in corals and fish with red color to look lack lustre.* Lack of a broader spectrum and missing quantities of output at wavelengths to promote a more full spectrum is often a concern cited with LEDs, and it is obvious when comparing the spectrums to metal halides."


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## Raul-7 (Oct 17, 2003)

In your case, I'd add a 150W MH in between those 2 and use for a midday burst; so to speak if you want those reds to color up. Then use the two LEDs for viewing and efficiency.


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

I'm off for 3 weeks away. Trim of plants done, water change done, auto doser set up, up sterilizer in, photo period schedule reduced.

Fingers crossed
TRIMMED STEMS AND DOG









FTS


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## Remmy (Jan 10, 2007)

i feel like this scape is too small for the size of the tank, the lonely rock on the right side doesn't contribute much and looks too square and 'placed', if you know what i mean.
Maybe if there were more midground plants surrounding the perimeter of the rocks and extending out a bit, something to make the transition to the grass more seamless.


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## Dropped (Oct 14, 2014)

oh how did it survive?


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

Remmy said:


> i feel like this scape is too small for the size of the tank, the lonely rock on the right side doesn't contribute much and looks too square and 'placed', if you know what i mean.
> Maybe if there were more midground plants surrounding the perimeter of the rocks and extending out a bit, something to make the transition to the grass more seamless.


Now that it's grown in, I totally hear you. Full frontal shots don't show the area of empty substrate just to the right of the main rock arrangement. There is AR and a few other plants to try and transition but not sure it'll be enough to fit the scale.

As for the 2 little rocks on the right I am thinking of changing this out to something higher and angled to the right to offset the main rock work. 

Thanks for your feedback. When I get back will look at it. 


Dropped said:


> oh how did it survive?


Just left so well have to see. How's your new setup going?


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## Xiaozhuang (Feb 15, 2012)

Tank looks well grown in - for L. glandulosa to color up, a tad bit more lighting (your lights are hanging quite high) and higher Fe/Traces (or more regular dosing) help...

Left pic when bought from shop, right pic shows effects after higher lighting....
The plants are in the dead spot of the tank in terms of flow; so I would say they are not as sensitive to less than ideal levels of CO2 etc, but light is crucial


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

Mmmm, the ecotech recommended height is 8 inches off the water surface yet I've dropped it to around 6 inches at the moment.

So, question. I have 80% intensity in the middle of the day for 4 hours and for 2 hours either side of that there is a slow increase and decrease from lights off.

To avoid algae I haven't got them running full bore. So is it about full blast lights for shorter periods? Or moderate blast for longer periods.?


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## Xiaozhuang (Feb 15, 2012)

6 hours total is already quite short. Iwouldn't go shorter than that. I don't remember the PAR charts for the ecotechs, but you should not need more than 100 PAR at substrate for stuff to color up, if you are already at this value check your dosing (especially Fe as the common EDTA chelator doesn't hold long in higher alkalinity water). On the other hand, I find that 50 PAR is not really high light, despite what ppl say... i find that values between 80-120 PAR gives much better results.


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

Thanks for that. How do I measure PAR? It's at a total of 8 hours with only 4 at 90% intensity.

I have just started ops pro dosing with extra iron. So if that doesn't work then it must be light, right?


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## Xiaozhuang (Feb 15, 2012)

You might be able to find PAR data for the lights at the lighting section of the forum. Hmm it might take a few days to see changes, and don't forget about Trace elements ! In some ferts they come together with the Fe, sometimes they don't though


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

Will do. Have macro and trace both auto dosing along with smaller amounts of seachem iron and excel


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## Dropped (Oct 14, 2014)

ropate said:


> Now that it's grown in, I totally hear you. Full frontal shots don't show the area of empty substrate just to the right of the main rock arrangement. There is AR and a few other plants to try and transition but not sure it'll be enough to fit the scale.
> 
> As for the 2 little rocks on the right I am thinking of changing this out to something higher and angled to the right to offset the main rock work.
> 
> ...


Yea its going well, i may post some pictures up when my new light comes in the next few days.


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## Dropped (Oct 14, 2014)

Oh wow! 

I was expecting a horror story haha.

Looking good! how long does you DHG grow?


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## Chris_Produces (Feb 19, 2014)

A bunch of the leaves on the S. repens looks like a snail may have gotten a hold of it.


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## Dropped (Oct 14, 2014)

Any updates on this tank?


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

Hey... massive trim just done. Will wait till its tidier and post some @dropped


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## Okedokey (Sep 2, 2014)

You need to increase your phosphate by about a multiple of 5 to 0.5 - 1 ppm. Also, I would check your iron.


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

I dose additional al flourish iron on top of the micro mix. But i agree on phosphate, i increased it in the macro mix but not enough I guess.

Is that what's causing the green dust and green spot do ya think?


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## Okedokey (Sep 2, 2014)

I reckon mate


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

Aha...how can I do it with throwing out my levels though. Doubled my KH2PO4 in my PPS PRO mix already


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## Okedokey (Sep 2, 2014)

add more, you cannot hurt with more K


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

If I've just put livestock in that I'll be feeding food to for the first time will the food provide enough phosphate? 2 GBR and 12 green neons


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## Raul-7 (Oct 17, 2003)

Did you think about adding a Kessil 360 between those 2 fixtures? Might give you the reds you're looking for. 

Those Radions are nice, but I think they lack the PAR for 18" deep tanks.


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## Okedokey (Sep 2, 2014)

ropate said:


> If I've just put livestock in that I'll be feeding food to for the first time will the food provide enough phosphate? 2 GBR and 12 green neons


probably not


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

Raul-7 said:


> Did you think about adding a Kessil 360 between those 2 fixtures? Might give you the reds you're looking for.
> 
> Those Radions are nice, but I think they lack the PAR for 18" deep tanks.


I was tossing up between the kessil and radion. Opted for radion because it's got a fantastic program for timing lights etc straight out the box. as they were new, there wasn't much in the way of PAR info. To be fair... i still don't really understand PAR


Okedokey said:


> probably not


Tripled the dose !


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## Okedokey (Sep 2, 2014)

What is your phosphate and nitrate level now?


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

Okedokey said:


> What is your phosphate and nitrate level now?


And cue the idiot moment. In fiddling with my auto dose to rejig my dosing tines and amounts, i have just realised the system setting for my macro mix was incorrect. 

Its been officially dosing 10mls once every 30 days.

Aaaargh.


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## Okedokey (Sep 2, 2014)

woops


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

Okedokey said:


> woops


Indeed. Lesson learned...


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## Dropped (Oct 14, 2014)

Bugger what was the damage?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

No damage as such, but it was root of all my algae and growth problems obviously. Now all tracking very well. Just in time for my school of green neons arriving wed next week.

Cut everything back to get rid of some of the problem patches in some of the stem plants. Will see how it looks when I get back from this week away.

Ps Auckland weather sucks


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## Okedokey (Sep 2, 2014)

Mate where did you get the green neons??? I'm in Sydney, can't find any


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

I know...been looking for ages too while the tank was maturing. Online at livefish. Ordered a while back but the batch they had wasn't good so didn't ship. They have a fresh new shipment in and it's sending monday


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## Dropped (Oct 14, 2014)

Update pics with the rams in?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

Sure... just waiting on the stems to grown in a bit


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

A few pics. Sorry they're just phone shots.

the female with the male and an A. Macmasteri. All juvies from a local Sydney breeder. He gave me the Macmasteri so it wasn't really planned for. Gorgeous though.









Male

















Macmasteri 









FTS


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## Okedokey (Sep 2, 2014)

Very nice mate.


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

Okedokey said:


> Very nice mate.


Ta mate. Look forward to the stems growing in with the fixed fert regimen. Interesting though after a week away there was a hefty bout of green dust algae on the rocks, some on the glass and on the AR mini older leaves.

Possibly a high concentration of nitrates given the detritus in the hairgrass and new biology from the fish. 

Nitrates showing high on the test but with api test, it's so hard to differentiate the colour. Regardless, it was high.


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## Dropped (Oct 14, 2014)

Your gbrs colours are awesome! Way better than mine !


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jimbo662 (Aug 4, 2013)

Gorgeous tank. What are you using for ground cover? And yes, the GBR's look amazing!


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## ScubaSteve (Jun 30, 2012)

Wow...I love the rock island set up...jealous! Have any of your baby RCS made it?
.


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

Dropped said:


> Your gbrs colours are awesome! Way better than mine !
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeh, genuine German bred makes a difference when compared to the Asian bred 'gbr' - I got them from an older hungarian guy who breeds them from original German stock


jimbo662 said:


> Gorgeous tank. What are you using for ground cover? And yes, the GBR's look amazing!


Thanks! That's eleocharis belem. A shorter growing version of dwarf hair grass.


ScubaSteve said:


> Wow...I love the rock island set up...jealous! Have any of your baby RCS made it?
> .


Thanks! I want to add a bit more rock to the right to balance it off. Well maybe, the thought of pulling up the carpet is nightmarish.  

The yellow cherry shrimp babies never made it. I blame the siamensis. Since moving the rams and apisto into this tank though, they've entirely disappeared. [emoji19]


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## ctross09 (Mar 29, 2015)

Awesome thick carpet! Looks amazing . I am hoping for a similar simple carpet/ rock centerpiece look one day


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

ctross09 said:


> Awesome thick carpet! Looks amazing . I am hoping for a similar simple carpet/ rock centerpiece look one day


Well when you do just make sure that you buy yourself a gravel vac because it fills up with detritus really quickly.


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## Dropped (Oct 14, 2014)

ropate said:


> Well when you do just make sure that you buy yourself a gravel vac because it fills up with detritus really quickly.


Yes yes it does! ive pulled all of mine out now.

and also my pearl weed carpet as it was holding so much crap


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

Dropped said:


> Yes yes it does! ive pulled all of mine out now.
> 
> and also my pearl weed carpet as it was holding so much crap


Gravel vac works a treat, just got one with a wide mouth and use it for my water changes now


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

Proper little update on the tank. 

Now with the auto dosing of NPK fixed for a couple weeks, my tests seem to have balanced out except P is now low again so againssuming it's being consumed, hence the accelerated growth on my pogo and others that were stunted. So have doubled my monopotassium phosphate to see how that goes.

Stock update:
Added 15 green neons yesterday
50 red nosed shrimp from Darwin today
Removed 2 of the 7 siamensis, but will remove all eventually

Just received my frosting for the bank of the tank. Next project will be back lighting, but need to figure that out.


















FTS with the baby green neons just visible


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## Dropped (Oct 14, 2014)

did you keep a lid on this tank? if not have you had any jumpers?


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## ChemGuyEthan (Apr 13, 2014)

Really nice, clean look. Nice job trimming the lawn, haha.


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## andrewss (Oct 17, 2012)

the tank looks great! love the dwarfs!


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## AquaAurora (Jul 10, 2013)

ropate said:


> Helpers


Whats that room they're in? a giant indoor green house? or a sun roofed sectioned of your house? or no roofed section?? is that an aquaponic/drip wall system on the back wall?


I want a panoramic shot of that area behind the birds!


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

Dropped said:


> did you keep a lid on this tank? if not have you had any jumpers?


No lid... completely open and have had 2 SAE jump since they were in.


ChemGuyEthan said:


> Really nice, clean look. Nice job trimming the lawn, haha.





andrewss said:


> the tank looks great! love the dwarfs!


Thanks guys... 


AquaAurora said:


> Whats that room they're in? a giant indoor green house? or a sun roofed sectioned of your house? or no roofed section?? is that an aquaponic/drip wall system on the back wall?
> 
> 
> I want a panoramic shot of that area behind the birds!


Its a multi levelled courtyard. And the back wall is just a row of bay trees. I suppose it could look like a roofed atrium.

Am out for the day but can do a panoramic later


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## Okedokey (Sep 2, 2014)

This is what i did


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

Okedokey said:


> This is what i did


Nice. Did you get it made or did it come with the tank?


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## Okedokey (Sep 2, 2014)

I made it. Happy to share the vector diagram.


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

Okedokey said:


> I made it. Happy to share the vector diagram.


Thanks. Yes please


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

4 month (ish) update

a few things happening...nutrient balance still to be worked on when i have time to test etc etc. Outbreak of BGA unfortunately which i am trying to figure out... if anyone has any suggestions other than erythromycin, i'll happily buy it. manual removal so far but its spreading.

on top of that the same problem with green coating (GSA?) on the AR mini and other slow growing plants despite increasing Phosphate and reducing light intensity. The flow (listed as 1050 l/h) from the Eheim Pro 3 350 is compromised with my inline heater and CO2 reactor so i think increasing the canister size might be better for flow and circulation which might help with the algae, I've read. Looking at the Pro 3E 450 or the Pro3 600 at the moment. 


Other than that:
Green neon school complete today with the second delivery of 10 fish to make 20



Have been looking at easy options for backlighting. And came across a $39 LED strip at Bunnings which can stick onto the back of the tank and reflect off the back wall. Currently have it attached to a metal bar and trying out angles. Also, got a $5 window frosting cut to size which i need time to put on. Intensity doesn't seem high enough to make a difference when the lights are on though, however once the frosting film is on i may try directing the light directly up and onto it which may show up more.





Other than that, have added Blyxa as a transition between the L Senegalensis and DHG. Doing well so far, but i fear that's how the BGA got into the tank. It replaces the HC that the GBRs have had a field day pulling up, hence the bare area in the centre of the tank.


SAE grew large and aggressive, so have been happily rehomed, and the GBRs have spawned twice, seem happy with their Macmasteri buddy, no aggression and often together in the tank hanging out.
FTS:


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## Okedokey (Sep 2, 2014)

Here is the file mate.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/bqhpyc2dxtvp46h/Aquarium Lid_CADE1200-1_040202015.ai?dl=0


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

Okedokey said:


> Here is the file mate.
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/bqhpyc2dxtvp46h/Aquarium Lid_CADE1200-1_040202015.ai?dl=0


Thanks mate


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

Bump


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## Xiaozhuang (Feb 15, 2012)

Given the high flow rate of the Ecotech MP10 QD, putting it in position 3 will probably hit the deadspot behind the rocks due to the flow circulating to the end of the tank, then towards the back. Being in line with the filter outflow is a good thing so you don't get cross currents

Shifting it to position 2 or 1 with a high flow rate pump will result in stems being bent from the strong current hmm


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## ropate (Jan 19, 2013)

Mmm, the stems at centre back may push up and back with putting it along with the outflow at position 3. Quite liked how they were growing out and down to the right. But it is those stems that are causing the dead spot behind the rocks anyway and will have to get over it.

The mp10 has a minimum flow of 700lph so that shouldn't be too bad hopefully. Will try that first.


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