# Anyone have experience with geophagus tapajos?



## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

No one eh?


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## AWolf (Jun 13, 2014)

philipraposo1982 said:


> No one eh?


Ha! I asked about geophagus on this forum a month or so ago, but got no responses either. My parents used to keep them (Both Ichthyologists, but passed, RIP), and from what I recall they were peaceful enough. I don't see anyone keeping them much any more. I've never seen them an any of my LFS. You may want to keep a journal so others like myself can watch. Very beautiful and peaceful as I recall. They do get about 6 inches in aquarium don't they?


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

The tapajos get 4-6 inches they are one of the smallest geos.

Many geos get larger though.


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## AWolf (Jun 13, 2014)

philipraposo1982 said:


> The tapajos get 4-6 inches they are one of the smallest geos.
> 
> Many geos get larger though.


Yea, I remember they were fun to watch, sifting through the sand substrate. I suppose people with planted tanks would be very nervous around such a fish! They would move so much sand in a day, and create mounds all over the tank. Do you have plants? I would think plants would need to be in pots, or very well establish.


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## onlycrimson (Sep 7, 2010)

When I worked in a shop we used to carry them occasionally. Seemed like a lot of other SA Cichlids, but perhaps a bit more docile. If one has claimed a spot it doubtful they will relinquish it soon, but maybe in the future.


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

What about making them not so shy? They spook easily. They have great color for being so young but hide alot.

They come out to eat with a passion and will eat till they are full. They go back to hiding out once done. 

Its only them in the 75g with lots of cover.


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## AWolf (Jun 13, 2014)

I'm very excited to hear someone has these beauties. I'd love to hear about your setup for them. Do they sift through the sand much yet? Once they are acclimated I'm sure you'll see that behavior more often. I honestly have not found anyone in the hobby owning or talking about these fish. I'm very happy to hear.

Bump:


philipraposo1982 said:


> What about making them not so shy? They spook easily. They have great color for being so young but hide alot.
> 
> They come out to eat with a passion and will eat till they are full. They go back to hiding out once done.
> 
> Its only them in the 75g with lots of cover.


It looks like the perfect setup. No plants to pull up, loads of sand to rearrange! I remember a little bit about them. They are shy, but like all shy fish, if there is enough going on around them, they get used to it..? I think. I used to sit and watch them forever. Feeling nostalgic, and must go cry now....hahaha!


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

I will try and get some feeding footage.


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## AWolf (Jun 13, 2014)

philipraposo1982 said:


> I will try and get some feeding footage.


Oh yes! Trying to contain my excitement.


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

AWolf said:


> I'm very excited to hear someone has these beauties. I'd love to hear about your setup for them. Do they sift through the sand much yet? Once they are acclimated I'm sure you'll see that behavior more often. I honestly have not found anyone in the hobby owning or talking about these fish. I'm very happy to hear.
> 
> Bump:
> It looks like the perfect setup. No plants to pull up, loads of sand to rearrange! I remember a little bit about them. They are shy, but like all shy fish, if there is enough going on around them, they get used to it..? I think. I used to sit and watch them forever. Feeling nostalgic, and must go cry now....hahaha!


They do sift, but not as much as they should due to being spooked so easily.

I scaped the tank to fit their needs, lots of love like areas to provide cover. Raised the light to keep it not as bright. Alot of sand as they are earth eaters.

I love watching them too.


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## AWolf (Jun 13, 2014)

I'll be watching. Keep us posted please!


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## end3r.P (Aug 31, 2015)

Are they compatible with small characins? I've read that adding a group of tetras or other small, more active schooling fish can help with the shyness of some dwarf cichlids -- it shows them that there are no larger predators around to worry about. I know these aren't so much a "dwarf" species, but perhaps the same principle applies? Of course, if they will eat small fish, that would be a no-go. 

Edit: from seriouslyfish.com: Unless breeding this species is surprisingly peaceful and will not predate on fishes larger than a few millimetres in length. Suitable tankmates are far too numerous to list but include most peaceful species enjoying similar environmental conditions.

So, maybe an option if you're not set on a species tank.

Regardless, I bet they get less shy over time, especially if you spend plenty of time in front of the tank.


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## AWolf (Jun 13, 2014)

end3r.P said:


> Are they compatible with small characins? I've read that adding a group of tetras or other small, more active schooling fish can help with the shyness of some dwarf cichlids -- it shows them that there are no larger predators around to worry about. I know these aren't so much a "dwarf" species, but perhaps the same principle applies? Of course, if they will eat small fish, that would be a no-go.


That's a great question. I'm trying to remember what other fish my Parents kept with them. They kept them successfully for years with other types of fish, but I just can't remember what fish. I don't believe they will attack or eat other fish, so other species from their native environment may work to bring them out. Such a good idea.


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## AWolf (Jun 13, 2014)

I'm a fan of rummy nose tetras for the African cichlid biotope, because they will let you know when your water is poor. They lose the bright red nose, and start to die if you don't keep the water chemistry up to standards. Sort of like a canary in coal mines. But like any tetra, they can be annoying as well, and nip at fish. I kept them with angelfish, and they never nipped at them. My angels at the time were very big, like a geophagus. (3" diameter and up.) So I would doubt there would be a problem. But now I keep them with male bettas, and they nip at them...however, that has stopped after the bettas learned and started squaring off with them. :}


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

Many people keep them with wide body tetras like lemons.

I am really set on keeping a species only tank though. I think with time they should be good, I hope


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

I monitor tds and do weekly sometimes two times a week 50-60% wcs


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## end3r.P (Aug 31, 2015)

philipraposo1982 said:


> Many people keep them with wide body tetras like lemons.
> 
> I am really set on keeping a species only tank though. I think with time they should be good, I hope



Agreed -- give it time.


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

So after receiving more advice on here and other forums I felt the right thing to do was to add some dither fish. I ended up finding some lemon tetras. Picked up 18.

I read that lemon tetras are found in the tapajos river with my geos. So they are a perfect fit.

They also live fairly long and shouldn't add much in terms of waste. Hopefully with a bit of time my geos will come out of they shells and gain some confidence.


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## end3r.P (Aug 31, 2015)

philipraposo1982 said:


> So after receiving more advice on here and other forums I felt the right thing to do was to add some dither fish. I ended up finding some lemon tetras. Picked up 18.
> 
> I read that lemon tetras are found in the tapajos river with my geos. So they are a perfect fit.
> 
> They also live fairly long and shouldn't add much in terms of waste. Hopefully with a bit of time my geos will come out of they shells and gain some confidence.



Cool! Post pics once they're acclimated!


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

https://youtu.be/F-bNi5RG1w8

Not a great video, no editing and shot with my note 3 but shows what a difference the tetras have made is my geos.

Before they would hide all the time and never come to the glass.


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## end3r.P (Aug 31, 2015)

Wow, what gorgeous fish. Glad the dither fish worked out!


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

end3r.P said:


> Wow, what gorgeous fish. Glad the dither fish worked out!


Thanks, they are still very young and will color up much more if I can get them to adulthood. I having a fair bit of deaths with my lemons though. They are small and clearly been through alot. I hope that my risk taking of no quarantine doesn't come by to bite me in the ass.

I would be devastated if I lost my geos because I added dithers to make em less stress which is working amazingly, only to have some bacterial or fungal thing kill them :s


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## AWolf (Jun 13, 2014)

philipraposo1982 said:


> I would be devastated if I lost my geos because I added dithers to make em less stress which is working amazingly, only to have some bacterial or fungal thing kill them :s


What a great tank! I'm so loving it. I keep a diatom filter and use it when I add new fish, and a couple of times a month for good measure. Also, an ultraviolet light is good protection overall. I bought a 'Green Killing Machine' UV light and love it.


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

After losing a bunch of lemon tetras I decided to get them replaced. I spoke with some staff at the lfs where I bough them and was told they were not having the same issues I was. Hardly any die offs. So I figured the stress of the move was to much and allowed something to take over and kill them. Maybe columnaris but I am not 100%.

Anyways I got the 7 fish replaced and bought another 12 (it's all they had). I figured the store is far from me and no one else locally has them so I may as well get what they got. Hoping not to lose too much more tetras.

Since adding the new ones, I lost 3 more. Today is the first day that I haven't seen a dead fish. They are all looking good too. Fingers crossed things remain good from here on.

I been doing 60% daily water changes to keep any existing pathogens on the water minimal. I know my geos are of good sizes and in great health. Not stressed either. They should be able to fight off most things. 

I have a bunch of meds on hand if I notice any geos with symptoms. But for now all if good.


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## Fiftymeatballs (Mar 30, 2011)

Very nice setup! I kept Geophagus Surinamensis in my 120g for about 8 months with my discus since they are from the same habitat. Turned out there was just not enough space for them so I had to sell em off. 

Your setup is perfect I really like it. Cichlids are territorial, some more aggressive than others, they will duke it out and form a hierarchy right away. If you find the fighting becomes unbearable I recommend making more hiding places but give it some time to pan out before you start changing things around since it can start the process all over again. Just make sure everyone is eating and don't let it stress you out too much


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

Since adding them almost a month ago, the territories seemed to be worked out. Although the territories don't seem to matter until it's time to rest. 

Since adding the tetras aka dither fish, they are out all day searching for food and socializing with each other. But nothing in the way of aggression. My pearl gouramis I kept in the past make this guy's loom like kittens. 

It's cool to see how they speak to each other with body language. The flaring of the fins and throat area is so cool!

The color changes that are almost instant, the swimming gestures, and all the other small displays.

The tetras haven't been around long at all but the geos have responded in such great fashion that it has made me appreciate the idea of dither fish so much more.

I am glad others are enjoying my tank, I absolutely love this setup and look forward to watching my geos grow into adults.

I plan to setup a small 10g breeding tank for lemon tetras down the road. I will likely have my geos breed in the tank and see how they do at raising fry on their own. Maybe setup something for young adult geos later on too.


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## end3r.P (Aug 31, 2015)

philipraposo1982 said:


> After losing a bunch of lemon tetras I decided to get them replaced. I spoke with some staff at the lfs where I bough them and was told they were not having the same issues I was. Hardly any die offs. So I figured the stress of the move was to much and allowed something to take over and kill them. Maybe columnaris but I am not 100%.
> 
> Anyways I got the 7 fish replaced and bought another 12 (it's all they had). I figured the store is far from me and no one else locally has them so I may as well get what they got. Hoping not to lose too much more tetras.
> 
> ...


I'm confused -- how many lemons do you have in the tank now? Any left from the original batch, or did you take all of those back?

In any event, good luck!


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

I originally bough 18 and got 19. 6 died from that group.

Returned the bodies and got them replaced,plus I added another 12 . Hope that's clear.


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## end3r.P (Aug 31, 2015)

philipraposo1982 said:


> I originally bough 18 and got 19. 6 died from that group.
> 
> Returned the bodies and got them replaced,plus I added another 12 . Hope that's clear.


Gotcha. Nice big school, then. Good deal. Keep us posted!


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

Yeah they look incredible already. Still young though


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## pipelayer (Sep 24, 2013)

Those are some great looking Tapajos. I had a group of Geo. Altifrons a few years ago and they were great fish! Had 5 pretty large ones in my 120. 

If I had seen this thread earlier I would have suggested lemon tetras as well! They are a pretty nice schooling fish and I think the yellow really stands out. 

Those red heads are really looking very good already. Makes me want to set something up for another group of them.


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

With lemon tetras coming from the Rio tapajos river basin it was really a no brainier for me. I been trying to achieve a biotope ish tank, so that fit right into that plan 

They come from a local breeder that had a good line of geos from what I am told. They really are a stunning fish, so glad I was introduced to them from another member on here.


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## pipelayer (Sep 24, 2013)

Yeah, that is very true. I also had a wild caught group of scalare angels from the same river which worked out very nicely in a biotope setup. 

Thats great you have a local breeder as well. Not so easy to come by down by me.


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

A few pics from today.


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## WaterLife (Jul 1, 2015)

Looks like they've grown up pretty fast. How many inches are they now?
They will look even better once they get older.


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

I think the largest one is just under 4 inches but the rest are 3-3.5 inches. I think it will be at least a year before I get anywhere close to 5 inches.

I read that they grow slow.


Lost 2 more lemon tetras. Total of 5 since adding the new ones on Saturday 

I have meds to treat for columnaris but I am not going to use it until I notice my geos showing symptoms. I am still not sure what's going on with the deaths but I have been doing daily water changes so hopefully things will calm down this week.

I had a similar situation when I bought 40 cherry barbs a while back. I believe I lost 15 in a very similar fashion. Ended up replacing them and finally things got good and they ended up doing great. Spawning for me all the time too.


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## WaterLife (Jul 1, 2015)

Sorry I haven't followed along with the thread.

Are you sure it's Columnaris? White patches are usually always present. Secondary infections can be fungus and/or flesh rot. Without the common symptoms, I would not just assume it's Columnaris just because fish are dying.

If you are sure it's Columnaris, make sure to get meds that take out gram-negative aerobic bacteria. Kanamycin (found in KanaPlex) is the most effective antibiotic to treat Columnaris. From studies it has shown that combining Kanamycin with another antibiotic achieves the most successful treatment results. In particular Nitrofurazone (found in API Furan-2) proved to give the best results when used in combination with Kanamycin. Alternative antibiotic combos (not as effective) are Triple Sulfa, Minocycline, Oxytetracycline, Tetracycline, etc.

Cooler temps (75*F or lower) can slow down Columnaris progression (if done, do so gradually to not stress the sick fish even more). Adding salt (1 tablespoon per 5 gallons or more) can also slow down Columnaris progression. From studies, Methylene Blue dips have shown to help quite noticeably (particularly on mild-moderate cases).

Curious what the water parameters are (pH, KH, GH, Temp., even nitrogen levels).


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

I am very away of how to treat columnaris and what to look for. Which is why I am still unsure. Some fish show what I believe to be columnaris while other have died from heavy breathing. 

I am noticing some sort of wound on the body of the fish where it looks like the flesh is started to deteriorate. But I never notice the grey patches before hand. Just the beginning of what looks like raw flesh and its eating away at the body of the fish.

Some of the fish developed white lips and eventually died. Others breath heavy swim funny and eventually die.

Of all the deaths the fish goes from looking alright to death in 24-48 hours max. Very quickly their health goes to the dumps.

Many of the lemon tetras show great color, good appetite and very active. It's a handful of fish that's being effected.

Temp is 79-80
PH is around 7.4
Gh and kh 7-8


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

Oh and I have kanaplex and furan 2 on standby.

I am trying to provide super clean and healthy environment with low stress and see how many can make it.


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

So with the continued deaths of my lemon tetras I have decided that by not treating the tank would only allow the disease aka columnaris to further establish and pose a bigger risk down the road.

Tonight was the first full dose of kanaplex plus furan2. I will run the full suggested treated as per packaging. Geos are still looking incredible btw. 

I have been doing daily 50g water changes for the past 3-4 days trying to keep the pathogens low. Will be ceasing with the water changes as treatment suggests.

On a side note, I bought a nice tripod and a telephoto lenses for my Olympus tg4 camera. I played around with some photos and some video for a bit today before adding the meds. 

Keep posted for some up close footage of my geos. I just gotta trim the vid a bit as I sat there for a while trying to get the hang out it. With a bit of practice I am sure I will only get better and better


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## WaterLife (Jul 1, 2015)

Hope it works out! Columnaris isn't a easy disease to cure. But good call treating sooner rather than later, which would allow the disease to get a stronger foothold and for the fish to get weaker. Furan 2 isn't plant safe, but hardy plants such as Anubias and Java Ferns shouldn't be effected much. Bolbitis should be relatively as tough as those, but I can see it maybe shriveling a little. Good thing is, those broad spectrum meds so hopefully even if it isn't really Columnaris, it has good chances of curing. I would advise using Activated carbon/charcoal soon after complete treatment is done since those meds aren't the most gentle (Furan-2 more so. Note that Furan-2 calls for a total of 4 doses/2 treatment cycles. Sucks treatment can get pricey too, especially for larger size tanks). Make sure to turn off UV's, skimmers and remove activated carbon while treating. Not sure if removing Purigen is necessary.


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

Thanks,

I did buy a carbon pad to cut and put in my eheim after treatment. 

I am 95% sure it columnaris, so I am hoping for the best. Yes the meds were just under $100 but in my area, the geos alone are worth over $240. My lemon tetras are over $65. So it's kind of a no brainer 

I have used this combo in the past with much more sensitive plants and come.out alright. I think my 3 species should be fine. I also bough some tetra safe start to help in case of a mini cycle after treatment.

I will keep everyone posted. Geos still look 100% normal, acting fine too.


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## WaterLife (Jul 1, 2015)

Woah $100!?! That's a lot more pricey.

I get most of my aquarium stuff from Kensfish
Seachem Kanaplex 5 Gram
API Furan-2 Powder

But I see you are in Canada. I hear Big Als has a website/location for Canada citizens. Not sure if they have the meds though.

Sounds like you got it planned out! Good thinking having Tetra SafeStart just in case (don't dose it while the meds are still in the tank).
Not sure if that carbon pad is large enough to pull out all the meds. Should be able to pull out most though, you can always do water changes to dilute it.


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

I had to buy 4 boxes of furan 2 at $13 each. The kanaplex I bought 2 5gm at $13 each. Plus the tetra safe start, carbon.

I will be doing alot of water changes right after treatment and then adding the charcoal for some assistance. it's a huge pad.

Also reduced the temp a few degrees to slow the bacteria growth down.


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

Lowering temp can help slow down spread of some bacterial pathogen's, and warmer temps might explain some of the rapid breathing while fish are under stress.76 degree's F would be comfortable range for Geo's and the Lemon tetra's.
Hope you don't lose any more fishes.
Columnaris in my tanks, most often resulted in nearly all fishes showing symptom's so it is good so far,that the Geo's are hangin in there.


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

The rest of my lemons are good minus one the is showing a lesson on his backside. So it's not too advanced I guess. 

Seems like it really overtakes the lemons fast because they are still so small and young.


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

here is a video of the geos a day before i started dosing the meds.

I just got a tripod and telephoto lense for my olympus tg4 and made this quick video. Its my first time doing any kind of editing so go easy on me. 

As for treatment, they are doing great (the geos). My lemons are still slowly dying, i am hoping the death count won't leave me with less than 10 from the original 32. Tonight makes day 3. 6 more to go.


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