# COB vs 3 Watt star LEDS



## joebob296 (Sep 30, 2016)

Hello,


About a year ago I was going to use a bunch of LED 3 watt star leds on my 180 gallon tank; 6x2x2. Of course life had other plans, one new job, one new house, and one new son. Life has finally slowed down to the point where I can resume my build. Is there a difference between using a few COB or alot of the 3 watt star leds? I'm not all that interested in learning all the specs, CRI, brand, etc...my led knowledge is pretty much nonexistent and I dont have that much time to dedicate hours into research. I just want something that looks good and can grow plants. Wiring it all up is the easy part for me.



Joe


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## finnipper59 (May 4, 2018)

joebob296 said:


> Hello,
> 
> 
> About a year ago I was going to use a bunch of LED 3 watt star leds on my 180 gallon tank; 6x2x2. Of course life had other plans, one new job, one new house, and one new son. Life has finally slowed down to the point where I can resume my build. Is there a difference between using a few COB or alot of the 3 watt star leds? I'm not all that interested in learning all the specs, CRI, brand, etc...my led knowledge is pretty much nonexistent and I dont have that much time to dedicate hours into research. I just want something that looks good and can grow plants. Wiring it all up is the easy part for me.
> ...


After 45 years in this hobby and seeing the changes in equipment, I've tried a lot of new products and even have one tank with LED lighting...no plants. I recommend that if you don't already have one, buy a regular flourescent fixture and put in a plant grow or full spectrum tube. Older technology, but works perfectly.

Sent from my LGMS210 using Tapatalk


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## Kampo (Nov 3, 2015)

I think there are a lot more options of COB, the Fresh Focus Fresh Fish is about the perfect LED for a fresh water tank. match it with a small Vero 10 2700k to give you some boost to deep red and when used with a dimming controller/timer you can get some nice sunset/sunrise effects. this is what I run on a 20in cube and it looks amazing

on a 180 depending on the look you want you could prolly get away with 3 arrays of 2 cobs and have a very nice setup.


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## joebob296 (Sep 30, 2016)

Kampo said:


> I think there are a lot more options of COB, the Fresh Focus Fresh Fish is about the perfect LED for a fresh water tank. match it with a small Vero 10 2700k to give you some boost to deep red and when used with a dimming controller/timer you can get some nice sunset/sunrise effects. this is what I run on a 20in cube and it looks amazing
> 
> on a 180 depending on the look you want you could prolly get away with 3 arrays of 2 cobs and have a very nice setup.





Do you have any pictures?


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Done...

















200gal tank.. Not mine btw


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## joebob296 (Sep 30, 2016)

jeffkrol said:


> Done...



Yep, thats is what I was going to copy. But using a few COB's would make the build so much easier and less time consuming especially when soldering. Could I achieve the same effect from using Fresh Focus COB's? FF has been mentioned on here multiple times; with most comments talking about how good it is for fresh water.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

Here's the dealey-o...

If you are going with COBs, you will save yourself a ton of wiring and they generally can be purchased with a higher CRI.

But, they are not as easy to mix with other colors and depending on how big they are, you could have problems with spotlighting. 

If you plan to have color channels alongside your whites, they will likely be made from 3W color leds, so you will still have a ton of wiring if you want the colors to have any impact on the look of your tank. Building adjustable color channels for a 6' tank is no joke.

If you want manageable wiring, using high CRI 5000K+ COBs with some 2700K COBs.

My current LED build is based on 95cri Cree cxa 1304s COBs. They are the perfect size imo.

if you already have the 3W whites, and are planning color channels, you might as well use what you have.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

work in progress but they had some very specific parameters.. Sorry not built yet..
and personally would take out the UV390 and add reg. blue..

Bred and pastries are high CRI at low K ..

BTW they are making "2 color" COB's w/ ww/cw blended..
https://www.luminus.com/products/cobarrays/dynamic-cob
Simplifying things quite a bit..
https://www.luminus.com/products/cobarrays/dynamic-cob
CTM-18-6527-90-36-TW01
650k/2700k


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## joebob296 (Sep 30, 2016)

ChrisX said:


> Here's the dealey-o...
> 
> If you are going with COBs, you will save yourself a ton of wiring and they generally can be purchased with a higher CRI.
> 
> ...



I actually tried to follow along your build but got lost in all the technical jargon. Right now I don't have any unused equipment so I'm starting with a clean slate. If I can bypass extra work, great. If not, so be it. I was really hoping to avoid doing all drill/tapping/soldering. I know one can use thermal adhesive but I've had bad experiences using it. I've used the 3W stars in the past which is why I'm more comfortable using them. 

From what I have been reading; which is fairly small, the COBs are up to 36 volts not 48. Can I still use Meanwell LDD drivers?

Where did you purchase you COBs from?



jeffkrol said:


> work in progress but they had some very specific parameters.. Sorry not built yet..
> and personally would take out the UV390 and add reg. blue..
> 
> Bred and pastries are high CRI at low K ..
> ...



This looks much easier to build rather then a plethora of star leds. What size tank is this going over?

CTM-18-6527-90-36-TW01

These didn't look to bad. Just one more option in the never ending list.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

joebob296 said:


> This looks much easier to build rather then a plethora of star leds. What size tank is this going over?
> 
> CTM-18-6527-90-36-TW01
> 
> These didn't look to bad. Just one more option in the never ending list.



thats a complicated story.. There are going to be 2 "panels"
over a small tank w/ a design (low duty cycle for the time being).. for a much larger tank.


Can't remember the exact size but the math works out..
Main COB's alone are 150W..approx..


Sorry to be so inconclusive but the tanks aren't mine .. again..
2 panels like that will be enough for a very large tank..

LDD-h's wil handle 46V.. Now the ps needs to be V(f) plus 3 volts..So you are really limited to 48V power supplies..

LDD-l's can handle up to 36V but limited to at most 32V output.. (4V system losses)


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

Nbvjhvjy


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

joebob296 said:


> I actually tried to follow along your build but got lost in all the technical jargon. Right now I don't have any unused equipment so I'm starting with a clean slate. If I can bypass extra work, great. If not, so be it. I was really hoping to avoid doing all drill/tapping/soldering. I know one can use thermal adhesive but I've had bad experiences using it. I've used the 3W stars in the past which is why I'm more comfortable using them.
> 
> From what I have been reading; which is fairly small, the COBs are up to 36 volts not 48. Can I still use Meanwell LDD drivers?
> 
> ...


CTM14-6527-90-36-TW01
$11 each so about equal to premium 3W ships

@350mA LDD-h you get about 13W per chip..
Both channels on full you get about 4600K overall close to 100L/watt efficiency..there are higher chips.
Two channel cool and warm 90+ CRI MP
-


> 1616 XNOVA Cube LEDs
> on metal PC board 95 CRI typical with both channels powered on


https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/...le_White_COB_LED_Module_Datasheet-1287899.pdf
SLIGHT SNAG.. Current rating is for both, so a 2 channel driver needs to be 1/2 current per channel..


> Note that the maximum current and maximum
> power per channel also serve as guidelines for maximum current
> and maximum power for both channels combined. Luminaire thermal system
> capability and power derating curves on page 6 must be considered, and
> ...


going to make driver choice problematic..
Though LDD-H300 or 350 will work well w/ the "18" series but $15/chip
@ quant 10 only $13.78

Well could run series/parallel or a simple constant voltage plus resistor for the smaller chips


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## joebob296 (Sep 30, 2016)

And now I'm back to square one. Ill just stick with 3W star leds....ty for the help. Sometimes to much information is a bad thing.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

joebob296 said:


> And now I'm back to square one. Ill just stick with 3W star leds....ty for the help. Sometimes to much information is a bad thing.


You aren't even in the "too much info" zone.... 




> Tunable White Solution from 2700K to 6500K



https://cdn.samsung.com/led/file/resource/2018/04/US_Linear_Module_Leaflet_180413.pdf

https://www.digikey.com/products/en?keywords=SI-B8A131560WW
Really would simplify things..

same sort of restriction but 750mA total
Personally would take my chances w/ 500/300Ma Ldd-H pair per "channel"
500mA on the cool side.
Actually that is almost perfect.. 
at 9v a 48V ps one could run 5 strips off one driver..
That would be 5FT light strip approx.. 
roughly 36W per 5 strips..(Samsung lists 30w)
150L/w on average
4500L per 5 series strip..

would need 15 for a big deep tank 
Can't find beam angle though..

Slightly over $100 for 15 strips.. 1ft

NOTE: Need to confirm separate wiring..


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## Geoffrey2568 (Mar 8, 2018)

That looks like an interesting light and it's nice that it has 6500K vs Vesta's 5000K. I wonder why they use such an old LED though.

Where does it say that it's restricted to 750mA total? I interpreted it as 750mA max per channel. So at 100% that's 13.5W per 1ft or 67.5W for 5 feet/strips.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Geoffrey2568 said:


> That looks like an interesting light and it's nice that it has 6500K vs Vesta's 5000K. I wonder why they use such an old LED though.
> 
> Where does it say that it's restricted to 750mA total? I interpreted it as 750mA max per channel. So at 100% that's 13.5W per 1ft or 67.5W for 5 feet/strips.


Well restricted is kind of harsh term.

Problem is we aren't using variable current drivers to begin with...


But anyways there is this..
750 is fine on one channel..











DOh, has beam angle..

simple math puts the 50/50 @4600K..

The "unbalanced" drive current 500/300 would put full on at around 5000k.
You still will need some colored leds for spectrum fill..

140L/w isn't an "old" diode..


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## Geoffrey2568 (Mar 8, 2018)

I guess I'm just thinking of newer LEDs such as the LM301B at over 200L/W or even the LM561C or LM561B+.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Geoffrey2568 said:


> I guess I'm just thinking of newer LEDs such as the LM301B at over 200L/W or even the LM561C or LM561B+.



spec sheets are that high.. available" modules don't show it though.
https://www.heatron.com/products/details/vera-ii-mid-power-led-modules/

Blink and things change..

150-ish is 50% more efficient than t5's w/ out considering the geometry advantage.

I see what you mean though.. 301's are 2 years old.. 
https://news.samsung.com/global/sam...neup-influx-for-high-flux-industrial-lighting


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## joebob296 (Sep 30, 2016)

Not to sound pompous or stuck up but.....basically I'm looking for a parts list/build that uses COB's for a 180 gallon aquarium. If I could get a few COB's + a few color 3Watt instead of 75+ single leds; it would be much easier to assemble. Cost really isn't to much of a factor sense I wont be paying for it. I just want something that can achieve the same effect with less work for setup.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Well a COB is just a squished strip...
Then just pair "fresh fish" w/ "bread and pastry".. color to your hearts content.. 
Or just use all Fresh fish.. 



Depends on what look you want to achieve..

15 strips (9W "linear" COB) and 2 lines of colored 3w emitters was "simplified"
snap in connectors on the strips.. what more do you want?


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## joebob296 (Sep 30, 2016)

jeffkrol said:


> Well a COB is just a squished strip...
> Then just pair "fresh fish" w/ "bread and pastry".. color to your hearts content..
> Or just use all Fresh fish..
> 
> ...



Lol you make it sound so simple; which is coming from someone who knows pretty much nothing about how to design a light. Either way; I think I can do some research and decide between Fresh Fish w/Bread and Pastry with 3w emitters.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Here is an option for 3 watt LED's.
Don't buy the 20mm stars just buy the 3 watt beads.
Two of these can be ran in series @ 48VDC on 1 driver.


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## Wobblebonk (Feb 13, 2018)

That's a whole lot of tiny alien spacecraft leds on there... my only issue is all the leds from a series are practically right on top of each other, isn't it hard to make channels without spotlighting badly?

I've been thinking of doing something like the picture + 8 cyan (rebel right now, though there would be a lot of headroom on the 700ma drivers if I wanted to add epi or exotic? ledgroupbuy? cyans) and 8 hyper violet...

Should I lose the lime? Different whites? Too much of something / change channels around? I was gonna do like
(2 separate fixtures) 11 cool white (these don't appear to be lacking as much cyan as most other whites? am I wrong?) + 1 lime / 4 hyper violet + 4 deep red + 2 far red +(cyan??) / 4 cyan + 2 true blue + 6 5000k ? / 14 3500k?


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

Wobblebonk said:


> That's a whole lot of tiny alien spacecraft leds on there... my only issue is all the leds from a series are practically right on top of each other, isn't it hard to make channels without spotlighting badly?
> 
> I've been thinking of doing something like the picture + 8 cyan (rebel right now, though there would be a lot of headroom on the 700ma drivers if I wanted to add epi or exotic? ledgroupbuy? cyans) and 8 hyper violet...
> 
> ...



You might save yourself some wiring by replacing the SunPLus whites with small COBS. I used the cxa1304s. 

I researched the SunPlus and if you look at the binning information, there is a *wide* disparity in output. Because of their form, you will be buying them mounted by someone in the aftermarket, and at that point the binning information is lost. 1.99 Per SunPlus white looks like a good deal, until you realize they (may) be from the lowest quality "leftover" bin.

I like the CXAs because they can be mounted easily with adhesive and you know which bin they come from. 

Regarding colors, there is what Spectra says, and you can base your build on that to acheive a high CRI, but there are too many sources of errors, the least of which is that the actual parts you use don't match the data in Spectra.

My approach was to get a large number of Reds, Blues, and Greens. Operating under the assumption that these can be used to "mix" any* color, using adjustable channels I can (hopefully) create the exact look I want.

IOW, I can't advise on the perfect color mix, only to say that unless you experiment you won't find what you really want. I *can* advise on using small COBs instead of SunPlus, if only because the wiring becomes easier. Go too large with the COBs and you may get spotlighting.


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## Wobblebonk (Feb 13, 2018)

I'll take a look at some other options for whites/small cobs. I'm not too concerned with it being amazing cri with everything all maxed out, but maybe I am doing something obviously stupid.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

ChrisX said:


> I researched the SunPlus and if you look at the binning information, there is a *wide* disparity in output. Because of their form, you will be buying them mounted by someone in the aftermarket, and at that point the binning information is lost. 1.99 Per SunPlus white looks like a good deal, until you realize they (may) be from the lowest quality "leftover" bin.





> All Tables and Figures referenced are from the LED datasheet. Our calculations below have been triple checked for accuracy.
> - Forward Voltage is 3.50V @ 1225ma
> - Max current - 1225ma
> - PAR output -6.73 μmol/s per LED at 1225ma
> ...


Reverse engineering put it in the K-N PPF bin.. 
Ask em...


Bigger issue is the 150 degree "lens"..


12" wide tank probably shouldn't be placed more than 3" off the water line...

Bump:


Wobblebonk said:


> That's a whole lot of tiny alien spacecraft leds on there... my only issue is all the leds from a series are practically right on top of each other, isn't it hard to make channels without spotlighting badly?
> 
> I've been thinking of doing something like the picture + 8 cyan (rebel right now, though there would be a lot of headroom on the 700ma drivers if I wanted to add epi or exotic? ledgroupbuy? cyans) and 8 hyper violet...
> 
> ...



Really need your planned layout.. as to limes, love em or hate em..
Well they are a "visual brightner" and a fairly easy way to make high CRI


*Lime LEDs*



> *With parts exceeding 200 lm/W efficacy, LUMILEDS' LUXEON Lime emitters enable the most efficient, tunable white light*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Wobblebonk (Feb 13, 2018)

Maybe something like this... those are some crazy wide viewing angles huh... probably 24" wide tank though.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Your making me dizzy..
Off the cuff.. too many low K whites.. 
2:1 ratio is a fairly food start for most..5500K average..

Realy only need low k's for sunset/sunrise effects and supplemental red..
One lime would be kind of pointless..


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## Wobblebonk (Feb 13, 2018)

Assuming I went with the actual sunplus cool whites those are 1200 ma vs 1000ma 3.5k not that either would get run at max but I could easily just switch the lime to another cool white and take out some 3500k for some 1000ma 6500k


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

Wobblebonk said:


> Maybe something like this... those are some crazy wide viewing angles huh... probably 24" wide tank though.


That layout is asking for Lumen XT diffuser panel.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Steves response re: BIN for whites..



> Yes sir. J50F The first number is PPF (we have the highest available in this LED!), middle two is designating cool white, last is forward voltage.





> Reverse engineering put it in the K-N PPF bin..


OHH...SO close...


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## Wobblebonk (Feb 13, 2018)

gus6464 said:


> That layout is asking for Lumen XT diffuser panel.


Do you have any idea where to find it in more reasonable sizes than 4'x8'? I didn't look that many places but I was seeing well over 200 for a 4'x8'x.06" sheet... probably a significant shipping charge on that too.


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