# You think a betta in a cup is bad....



## babydragons

http://www.pawnation.com/2013/03/18/live-pets-turned-into-key-chain-charms/

This is just disgusting!! These poor turtles and fish and newts / salamanders!! If I ever saw anyone carrying one of these around I would personally rip it away from them and free these guys. And to think its a keychain. Imagine how they feel bouncing around.


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## assasin6547

That's so sad... how are they supposed to stay alive???


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## dtejeda.arias

I did not just see that... I will punch the ignorant person I see with one of these!!!


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## babydragons

I think the turtle one is the worst. They are very messy and I can see them being the first ones to die. I don't think there's a way to feed them or change their water. They just slowly starve to death just like the shrimp in the ecosphere, but just a lot faster.


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## steven p

How long till co2 becomes lethal? What's in the water?


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## thinBear

At first I thought that's in silicon gel, or some sort of preservative:angryfire...


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## dtejeda.arias

Even though red ear sliders are over populated this makes me sad. We really have become so hostile towards nature


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## Michael T

Thats insane, The creator/ designer should be stuck in a _"bag with water inside that has special nutrients that keep the animal occupant alive for months"_ :angryfire

Poor, poor little creatures


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## TetraChelle

This is awful, I just now read this and it's sickening to think people would do something like this all in the name of what they consider fashion. That's horrible to think those little innocent fish, turtles, etc are being treated like this. Someone should smack the person who came up with the idea and the people who support this. It's depressing to read stuff like this. Hope someone does something about this soon!!! It makes me really angry...:angryfire


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## Msheresy

This is sickening but I also understand that they have a different culture. Many countries still hunt whales even though its illegal in many other countries. It's all about the culture.


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## auban

as disgusting as this is, it makes me wonder how long they can really live. if they can survive for any length of time in those little pouches, i want some of that stuff they use next time i ship fish...


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## Ashnic05

Despicable and just plain wrong!!! :angryfire


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## DarkCobra

I try to respect other cultures and beliefs, but there really should be some base values constant across all humanity.

I'd also imagine the Buddhist Chinese are not happy about this, and would say it serves karma for people who participate in this to be reincarnated as an animal... in a keychain.


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## acitydweller

in society today, seeing such acts just makes being nonjudgemental that much more difficult. 

What you can do is not support these products and they wont be popular and be sold at your local petco/petsmart...

IMHO this is just viewed just as those chopping down the trees in the rainforests that generate most of the oxygen for our planet in order to "make a living". There are those that try to exploit others to make a living, and those that are producers that give back.


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## tropicalmackdaddy

Wow. im usually not to phased when Im reading about fish and small jars and bad owners, but this has really made me sick to my stomach. That is sososososo terrible...could they of at least used beatles or something?


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## Xavier10

Just horrible.


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## hedge_fund

Certain cultures are so cruel to animals....it's hard to fathom.


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## jovonhaln

Amazing..... you shouldn't even have to take ﻿the time to outlaw that it should be in the soul to not want to do it.... Well people dissapoint me regularly.


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## jovonhaln

And to think I agonized for years over my excess fry & what to do.


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## Warlock

Wow.. *true! According to snopes*



http://www.snopes.com/critters/crusader/keyrings.asp


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## chou

i just cooked myself a full meal and now have no appetite..


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## ThatGuyWithTheFish

People setting them free is worth. Yeah, let's introduce more nonnative species to decimate ecosystems and introduce diseases! Just mercy kill or take care of it.


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## gSTiTcH

acitydweller said:


> [...]chopping down the trees in the rainforests that generate most of the oxygen for our planet[...]


Actually, isn't it algae that generates most of the oxygen for our planet?


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## drewsuf82

I can't even describe the rage that this thread fills me with......


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## Nemue

Oh my god I've seen this before. Just another sign of soulless, disposable obsessed, consumerism society.


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## fplata

Ignorance should be criminal 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## AEWHistory

Msheresy said:


> This is sickening but I also understand that they have a different culture. Many countries still hunt whales even though its illegal in many other countries. It's all about the culture.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I understand that you're trying to be understanding but this is why I have become hostile to relavatism. Just because other cultures have a belief doesn't mean we are bound to respect said belief. If I come from a culture that says I have to hunt you, do you have to respect me shooting at you? What if I yell that I'm being oppressed? 

I used to be much more friendly to this concept, but not any longer and it is stuff like this key chain that is a good example why. The fact is that either approach projects your own culture onto someone else, so why not simply follow what you believe to be right? In this case this is simply not right to do if only because this is unsustainable and wasteful (forget the inhumanity for a moment).

Bump:


gSTiTcH said:


> Actually, isn't it algae that generates most of the oxygen for our planet?


I'm not certain, but I think that the rainforests produce a majority of all LAND based oxygen and the algae produces a majority of the WATER/SEA/OCEAN based oxygen. I think the algae, overall, is thought to produce a plurality of our planetary oxygen. 

Like I said, I might have remembered this wrong, but I've quoted it wrong in the past, as have others, and decided to look it up at some point and realized that it's a bit more complex that most people realize. Man, if I had a dollar for every time I've had realization in my life.....


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## crazy4fids

I think if I saw someone with one of these, I would approach him/her and say "that is really cool! Where did you get it?." Then I would ask to get a closer look at it, take it in my hands and hold it up and admire it. Then I would run real fast somewhere and free the poor animal.


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## Dead2fall

Our culture is/was just as guilty of things like this. Goldfish platform shoes. Live scorpions and other insects frozen in time into epoxy paperweights. The biosphere ball etc etc

Have you ever looked into how many of the animals we eat are actually kept? It's not old McDonald I can tell you that much. It's the same thing. Just because they're not "cute little pets" people look the other way. I love meat don't get me wrong, but we're just as guilty imo.


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## jeepguy

While this is awful, how many creatures were murdered to build your house, to build your place of business, how many creatures were killed to provide your power plant the land to power the device you use to view this forum, and then let's discuss the pollution created to power your cars, power your computer, and how it effects every aspect of this planet from the ocean to the mountains. 
How many fish died during the trip and in the store for you to get a single specimen. Boston is dumping snow laden with pollutants and insecticides into the ocean, and when the water plant can't handle the excess water during storms anything dumped in the drain gets sent to a lake or ocean. Humans are a disease on this planet. 
If we think about how rampant disease is when it takes hold in an aquarium you begin to understand how Mother Nature balances ecosystems with disease due to over population, and now you know why diseases, both autoimmune and cancer are so rampant in our society, yet we continue to seek a cure for all of these diseases. 
And the real question many will hate me for, why are humans more important then the bug or squirrel that gets hit by a car or squashed by a shoe. The answer is we are not, and if there is one species this planet would be better without, which do you think it would be? I don't even need to answer that question.
Bottom line, don't think you are innocent, and don't judge unless you live a self sustaining life, which you don't if you are reading this. We are ALL GUILTY!


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## schnebbles

Yes, but we aren't doing it so purposefully. What they are doing is downright wrong. They are trapping these creatures with no way to possibly survive.

I'm an animal lover, I hate how people are just so unconcerned with taking over any space they can no matter what it does to wildlife habitat. It really bothers me. then people complain that wildlife is too close to their backyard. Well, the wildlife was there first and we need to leave them enough of their own habitat. 

IMO, what they are doing with those pouches is 100x worse. 

I agree with you on us being so important, I think we need to share with nature more than we do. I can't stand spiders but I put the outside if I see one in my house. I kill fleas and mosquitoes b/c they bite me. I'm weird, lol! There was a centipede who was already dead in my kitchen sink the other day and I about died. Now, if it had been alive, I may have squashed it b/c it totally freaked me out and I wouldn't attempt to catch it b/c it might touch me!!


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## Coralbandit

Most of you have never seen how our store receive bettas huh?
The bag is barely big enough to hold the fish!
I have to admit I was even shocked to see it.
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/...koBdSLIuryxg:aqualandpetsplus.com/Betta,6.jpg
Makes the cup or the pouch look like a vacation at the spa!


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## jeepguy

schnebbles said:


> Yes, but we aren't doing it so purposefully. What they are doing is downright wrong. They are trapping these creatures with no way to possibly survive.
> 
> I'm an animal lover, I hate how people are just so unconcerned with taking over any space they can no matter what it does to wildlife habitat. It really bothers me. then people complain that wildlife is too close to their backyard. Well, the wildlife was there first and we need to leave them enough of their own habitat.
> 
> IMO, what they are doing with those pouches is 100x worse.
> 
> I agree with you on us being so important, I think we need to share with nature more than we do. I can't stand spiders but I put the outside if I see one in my house. I kill fleas and mosquitoes b/c they bite me. I'm weird, lol! There was a centipede who was already dead in my kitchen sink the other day and I about died. Now, if it had been alive, I may have squashed it b/c it totally freaked me out and I wouldn't attempt to catch it b/c it might touch me!!


I know of hundreds of people who think taking a fish from the wild and putting it in a box of water is wrong too. Yet people are proud of their wild caught altum Angels and discus. 
It's all a matter of moral preference. 
Linking park says it well, "Guilty all the same."
You live in a building, you drive in a car or bus, you consume and use products that are created emitting noxious chemicals and gases, and you know what these products do to the environment. 
I know I'm guilty. 
I don't blame anyone, and I stopped being angry. Honestly driving through philly or New York, or anywhere heavily commercialized or industrialized makes me sick, yet I still support them by buying gas for my car and using their products. Think of all the habitat and wildlife that was destroyed to pave the roads so we could save 10 minutes on our drive.
And no, I do not think the human race is important, I think we are puny and insignificant, and only future climate and disease related events will prove that.


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## AEWHistory

Dead2fall said:


> Our culture is/was just as guilty of things like this. Goldfish platform shoes. Live scorpions and other insects frozen in time into epoxy paperweights. The biosphere ball etc etc
> 
> Have you ever looked into how many of the animals we eat are actually kept? It's not old McDonald I can tell you that much. It's the same thing. Just because they're not "cute little pets" people look the other way. I love meat don't get me wrong, but we're just as guilty imo.





jeepguy said:


> While this is awful, how many creatures were murdered to build your house, to build your place of business, how many creatures were killed to provide your power plant the land to power the device you use to view this forum, and then let's discuss the pollution created to power your cars, power your computer, and how it effects every aspect of this planet from the ocean to the mountains.
> How many fish died during the trip and in the store for you to get a single specimen. Boston is dumping snow laden with pollutants and insecticides into the ocean, and when the water plant can't handle the excess water during storms anything dumped in the drain gets sent to a lake or ocean. Humans are a disease on this planet.
> If we think about how rampant disease is when it takes hold in an aquarium you begin to understand how Mother Nature balances ecosystems with disease due to over population, and now you know why diseases, both autoimmune and cancer are so rampant in our society, yet we continue to seek a cure for all of these diseases.
> And the real question many will hate me for, why are humans more important then the bug or squirrel that gets hit by a car or squashed by a shoe. The answer is we are not, and if there is one species this planet would be better without, which do you think it would be? I don't even need to answer that question.
> Bottom line, don't think you are innocent, and don't judge unless you live a self sustaining life, which you don't if you are reading this. We are ALL GUILTY!


And thus the problem with all sorts of relativism: just because I've done something bad doesn't mean you can too and it doesn't mitigate the "badness" of any of those actions. The fact that "WE" (whomever that is in your particular book) have done someone just as bad means NOTHING in determining that this is a horrific idea. 

Jeepguy, I think you mean well, but some of your points are simply strawmen. It seems that you'd be an excellent advocate for Jainism, but there is a reason why few people, even few Jains, feel they can effectively practice their religion. 

Mind you, there is a difference between taking a life and being cruel. Today we are being told that taking a life IS cruel which is a bastardization of ethics. These are the same people who say that the Ten Commandments say "Thou shall not kill." It doesn't say that in the original Hebrew, it says "thou shall not murder." That's a world of difference. In fact, the key difference is that taking a life is acceptable so long as it is necessary and, when possible, done with dignity. Putting fish in shoes and little bags will kill them slowly--in effect murder--for no benefit save for mindless short-loved aesthetic pleasure. These are not animals being used for food, the they are not being killed in order to save other lives, and their death is not some accident. 

Somewhere our society has lost the plot, and so have the people who made that horrific little bag for fish....


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## AEWHistory

jeepguy said:


> I know of hundreds of people who think taking a fish from the wild and putting it in a box of water is wrong too. Yet people are proud of their wild caught altum Angels and discus.
> It's all a matter of moral preference.
> Linking park says it well, "Guilty all the same."
> You live in a building, you drive in a car or bus, you consume and use products that are created emitting noxious chemicals and gases, and you know what these products do to the environment.
> I know I'm guilty.
> I don't blame anyone, and I stopped being angry. Honestly driving through philly or New York, or anywhere heavily commercialized or industrialized makes me sick, yet I still support them by buying gas for my car and using their products. Think of all the habitat and wildlife that was destroyed to pave the roads so we could save 10 minutes on our drive.
> And no, I do not think the human race is important, I think we are puny and insignificant, and only future climate and disease related events will prove that.


Again, this is relativistic crap. Hey, I used to be a proponent too, but I realized over time that this way of thinking was horribly destructive. Essentially what your proposing is that we be more "accepting" of other cultures and their shortcomings a ince we do things wrong as well and have different standards, have no right to set standards for others.... and so on. The problem is that this would justify things like the continuation of slavery and the subjugation of women. Don't think so? A minister in Saudi Arabia said that us Westerners needed to stop projecting our values onto them. Now here is the run: cultural relavatism IS a western value. So by suggesting that we need to be accepting of all these different norms you are projecting a singular western norm onto everyone on the planet. To put it another way, one of the most imperialistic and oppressive political movements has been the move to relavatize social norms. This started as a nice idea, but it isn't any longer. (And boy I have some vicious stories about some of my academic colleagues who considered themselves very open minded and welcoming to all ideas and norms.... and if you weren't open minded and welcoming to their ideas and norms you'd better watch out).

BTW, I'm perfectly fine critiquing my own society as well. Ask yourself this: why did you feel the need to point out the flaws of humanity instead of merely agreeing? Why make an oblique defense of what the OP has shown us here? You obviously care too much for animals to accept this on any level.

EDIT: I'm sorry if this comes off as harsh. As I said, I used to believe the same things but I've had some significant experiences that, for many reasons have push me away from this philosophy. And not merely because I disagree but I honestly believe it is destructive to the inking process. I see this in my college students today and it is appalling.


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## jeepguy

AEWHistory said:


> Again, this is relativistic crap. Hey, I used to be a proponent too, but I realized over time that this way of thinking was horribly destructive. Essentially what your proposing is that we be more "accepting" of other cultures and their shortcomings a ince we do things wrong as well and have different standards, have no right to set standards for others.... and so on. The problem is that this would justify things like the continuation of slavery and the subjugation of women. Don't think so? A minister in Saudi Arabia said that us Westerners needed to stop projecting our values onto them. Now here is the run: cultural relavatism IS a western value. So by suggesting that we need to be accepting of all these different norms you are projecting a singular western norm onto everyone on the planet. To put it another way, one of the most imperialistic and oppressive political movements has been the move to relavatize social norms. This started as a nice idea, but it isn't any longer. (And boy I have some vicious stories about some of my academic colleagues who considered themselves very open minded and welcoming to all ideas and norms.... and if you weren't open minded and welcoming to their ideas and norms you'd better watch out).
> 
> BTW, I'm perfectly fine critiquing my own society as well. Ask yourself this: why did you feel the need to point out the flaws of humanity instead of merely agreeing? Why make an oblique defense of what the OP has shown us here? You obviously care too much for animals to accept this on any level.
> 
> EDIT: I'm sorry if this comes off as harsh. As I said, I used to believe the same things but I've had some significant experiences that, for many reasons have push me away from this philosophy. And not merely because I disagree but I honestly believe it is destructive to the inking process. I see this in my college students today and it is appalling.


 Jainism, no, Buddhism, a little closer.
Why not agree? Why agree with judgement of other cultures? It is my feeling as long we support and participate is a fiscally driven global economy then animals and natural resources will be exploited at their expense. Fortunately we have groups that attempt to protect animals in our culture, but it is not the case in foreign cultures. 
My original intend was to inform that we are all guilty of abusing nature, whether directly or indirectly. I could have agreed, but that doesn't make very good conversation now does it.


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## caique

Michael T said:


> Thats insane, The creator/ designer should be stuck in a _"bag with water inside that has special nutrients that keep the animal occupant alive for months"_ :angryfire
> 
> Poor, poor little creatures


 
Good point, then just about the time they are going to die, let them out and see if there ideas change a bit. If not stick them back in the bag.


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## RWaters

Coralbandit said:


> Most of you have never seen how our store receive bettas huh?
> The bag is barely big enough to hold the fish!
> I have to admit I was even shocked to see it.
> https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/...koBdSLIuryxg:aqualandpetsplus.com/Betta,6.jpg
> Makes the cup or the pouch look like a vacation at the spa!


Yes, I've seen it but the difference is that he betta bag is temporary for shipping purposes.


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## cgorges

The fish in my keychain made it to weeks, until I left it in my car in the sun. OOPS!


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## kep

Humans are sick, sick creatures. Culture or not, wrong is wrong. Culture can make terrible things "normal" and "okay" to where no one blinks an eye or sees it as cruel. 

It's impossible not to have an effect on animals because almost everything we buy or consume today has touched them cruelly somehow. It's ingrained in every culture in one form or another and it's terrible. 

All you can do is your best and spend some time researching before you buy. You can't avoid it completely, but you can minimize it with knowledge. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## The_Perrycox

The human race can truly be foul at times. It's up to us as hobbyists to ensure our scaly friends live as comfortably as possible.


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## TurtleShark

How about the (hopefully) troll on some other site saying "I have 17 goldfish (or something like that) in a bag above my bed. Why do they keep dieing? My mom told me that fish food is a scam so I don't feed them. She says they eat algae in the water. But I can't keep them alive... Any ideas? And don't tell me they need a tank because I know that's not true. My mom says that's a scam as well."

Sigh... Some people just need to experience what they are putting their pets though, maybe then they'd learn. But, then again, there's no guarantee that they are even smart enough to learn from that. 

And about the bettas in a cup... I just have no words for that. At this point, I think I've given up on those in our society that think a betta in a cup is perfectly fine. 

Random story: Saw a study done once. They brought in a 3 month old monkey, showed it a treat, and then put the treat in a small cubbyhole in the table and covered it up. The money immediately lifted the cover and ate the treat. When they did the same with a 3 month old human child (this time with a toy) the kid had no idea where the toy went after they covered it up. She just looked around at all of the people. To the child, the toy was just gone. It didn't exist. But yet the monkey knew just what to do.

If that doesn't show how smart animals can be compared to people, I don't what would.

Add: 
And you know... if it wasn't for the media showing bettas, goldfish, frogs, turtles, and whatever else in horrible conditions looking as happy as could be (My Fun Aquarium and all of those "goldfish bowls" for example) we wouldn't have half of these problems...


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## rick dale

*fish*

What will some idiot think of next , just to try to make a buck . unbelievable !


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## caique

cgorges said:


> The fish in my keychain made it to weeks, until I left it in my car in the sun. OOPS!


 Did you actually buy one of these??


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