# "Snag" 60P



## BeastMaster (Dec 17, 2012)

started 11 Sep 12
tank: ADA 60P
filtration: Eheim 2213, DoAqua glass violet pipes
lighting: Finnex Ray 2 (currently); Eheim PowerLED (2) lamps (originally)
CO2: 20oz paintball cylinder, Aquatic Life regulator, DoAqua Music Counter & Mini Music glass diffuser
hardscape: (3) black river stones
flora: H. callitrichoides- carpet, H glomeratus stone- accent, E tenellus-backround
fauna: (6) Paracheirodon axelrodi (6) Inpaichtys kerri, colony Apistogramma caucatoides, "wild" Neocardina heteropoda

Tank was started as an attempt at "Iwagumi" and to grow an HC carpet. The carpet is good but the Iwagumi needs tweaking. The "pygmy" chain sword didn't develop as planned but the baby tears can be trained to accent the rockwork in the future.
-Video will be posted on YouTube
Suggestions are always welcome.


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## Charrr89 (May 15, 2013)

Whoa that's beautiful. Wish I had ur skills


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## Kai808 (Jul 19, 2011)

Nice!!! I was wondering when you were going to post this tank. I saw the video on your youtube. Hemianthus Glomeratus is a good plant to learn how to trim. It grows fast and is very bushy. How long have you had your HC carpet? I'm trying to figure out how long a carpet can last.


With your skills, you should change your name to plantmaster! haha.


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## BeastMaster (Dec 17, 2012)

Charrr89 said:


> Whoa that's beautiful. Wish I had ur skills


Thanks Charr. The HC took a long time to come in. Had to change my lighting source and positions of the violet pipes and CO2 diffuser for the carpet to fill in. The baby tears grows quickly and I'm slowly going to have it replace the "pygmy" chain sword backround. I'm having fun with it.


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## BeastMaster (Dec 17, 2012)

Kai808 said:


> Nice!!! I was wondering when you were going to post this tank. I saw the video on your youtube. Hemianthus Glomeratus is a good plant to learn how to trim. It grows fast and is very bushy. How long have you had your HC carpet? I'm trying to figure out how long a carpet can last.
> 
> 
> With your skills, you should change your name to plantmaster! haha.


Thanks Kai. The HC carpet really didn't kick off until the change from the PowerLEDs to the Ray 2. The carpet should last indefinitely as long as the carpet is trimmed when needed and tanklife doesn't burrow down into the root system. With the amount of time I put into my tanks, the plants are mastering me! haha. I have five tanks spread throughout my apartment, the scapes and the way I've tried to get them there, are all different, but very satisfying to relax with when I come home from work.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Wow, that looks really cool. I saw your post in the 60P thread. Really enjoying this scape.


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## sc91006 (Nov 8, 2011)

Exactly, WOW on the success of growing the HC. Loving the scape but not digging the blue background.


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## Greenz (Aug 27, 2013)

Beautiful tank I love the unique design


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## xmas_one (Feb 5, 2010)

I really like it, something different. HC is crazy thick!


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## BeastMaster (Dec 17, 2012)

talontsiawd said:


> Wow, that looks really cool. I saw your post in the 60P thread. Really enjoying this scape.


Thanks. Finally someone put together a 60P thread. Volume wise, this is my biggest tank. Your 60 is coming along, nice to watch other tanks evolve. Good Luck. :bounce:


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## BeastMaster (Dec 17, 2012)

sc91006 said:


> Exactly, WOW on the success of growing the HC. Loving the scape but not digging the blue background.


Thanks. The scape will continue to change. The blue background is on all my tanks. I chose it because it looks like what you would see if you were diving on a clear day. :bounce:


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## BeastMaster (Dec 17, 2012)

Greenz said:


> Beautiful tank I love the unique design


Thanks Greenz. Still need to work on exposing more of the hidden rockwork though. :bounce:



xmas_one said:


> I really like it, something different. HC is crazy thick!


Thanks xmas. The HC carpet is doing well, hope I can keep up with it. Your Dutch 60 is looking good. :bounce:


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## Fat Guy (Nov 19, 2003)

aloha!

very cool. and I actually like the blue background! where are the river stones? If I were a fish, I would enjoy swimming around in there. very pretty and lush.


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## BeastMaster (Dec 17, 2012)

Fat Guy said:


> aloha!
> 
> very cool. and I actually like the blue background! where are the river stones? If I were a fish, I would enjoy swimming around in there. very pretty and lush.


Mahalo Guy!
The (3) black river stones are there, just hidden by the baby tears and HC. I guess I enjoy shaping the bushy baby tears too much. Probably after I get some of the glomeratus established behind the rock work to replace the "not so pygmy" chain sword, will I reduce the height of the mid ground growth. We'll see how it evolves. Thanks again. :bounce:


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## BeastMaster (Dec 17, 2012)

*"Iwagumi" 60P*

Developed a problem with my HC carpet. The Apisto colony started digging at the base of some of the river stones and tunnel under the HC carpet. That caused the foreground cover to lift and separate in three places. Decided to cut away the separating sections and replant HC plugs to restart those sections.

I also removed more not so pygmy chain swords and replanted with more baby tears. Eventually the H. glomeratus will fill in the entire area behind the stones with 2-3 E. tenellus just in front of the glomeratus to provide a contrast. :bounce:

















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## Asu1776 (Mar 5, 2013)

That's a really dense HC carpet! Impressive growth. I like the comparison shots with the HC cut out and not. It's like an inch deep.


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## BeastMaster (Dec 17, 2012)

Asu1776 said:


> That's a really dense HC carpet! Impressive growth. I like the comparison shots with the HC cut out and not. It's like an inch deep.


Yeah, it was pretty uniform in thickness until the Apistos remodeled. Lesson learned, don't let the HC get too thick next to the stones. Need to taper when I trim the carpet. Thanks for the comment. :bounce:


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## AquaAurora (Jul 10, 2013)

Your tank is so lovely dense and lush! I wish I was experinced enough to try high tech set ups like this!
How tall are those pygmy chain swords btw? Did the hc have any trouble growing around the areas under the swords shade?


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Nice job growing the plants in there!


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## BeastMaster (Dec 17, 2012)

AquaAurora said:


> Your tank is so lovely dense and lush! I wish I was Excedrin enough to try high tec set ups like this!
> How tall are those pygmy chain swords btw? Did the hc have any trouble growing around the areas under the swords shade?


Thanks for the comment. The chain swords are growing to a length of 10-12". The HC doesn't grow as thick at the base of the baby tears but does continue to advance into their boundary. The chain swords sent runners everywhere so I'm constantly trimming them out of the carpet and out of the baby tears areas. :bounce:


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## BeastMaster (Dec 17, 2012)

hydrophyte said:


> Nice job growing the plants in there!


Thank you. Aquatic gardening is alot of work but I get alot of satisfaction from it. :bounce:


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## BeastMaster (Dec 17, 2012)

*Update*

The HC carpet over the last 5-6 weeks has been removed in sections and replanted as plugs. The Apistos & Neos burrowing under the thick roots slowly caused exposed edges to lift so, recycling the carpet was a necessity to maintain the scape. Trimmed the H. glomeratus into smaller bushes to expose the covered rock work. Also thinned out the E. tenellus and shrunk the footprint to allow the pearl weed to expand.

Replenished the diminishing cardinal tetra school and the 6 remaining A. cacautoides have developed into 2 alpha males and 4 sub dominant males that co-exist because of the lack of females. The I. kerri school is down to 5 with 1 developing into a male (adipose fin dark colored on the males, light brown on females).

Plan on removing the current glass CO2 diffuser and bubble checker and replacing with a brass check valve/bubble checker and a inline CO2 atomizer to be installed on the intake line. This type of CO2 set up appears to be more efficient with CO2 saturation as opposed to the glass diffuser in the tank. Welcome any comments on this change. :bounce:


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## Down_Shift (Sep 20, 2008)

I also have the inline atomizer ordered, wouldn't you want it on the outflow? 

I put a bubble counter on my co2 regulator and opt for the inline atomizer try to remove more things from the tank.


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## BeastMaster (Dec 17, 2012)

Down_Shift said:


> I also have the inline atomizer ordered, wouldn't you want it on the outflow?
> 
> I put a bubble counter on my co2 regulator and opt for the inline atomizer try to remove more things from the tank.


Hi Down_Shift, I too want to remove from view any plumbing from display but the main reason for going to an inline CO2 atomizer is to be more efficient with CO2 saturation. Placing the atomizer on the intake side increases contact time with the tank water and the impeller in the canister filter assists with the agitation and further atomizing the CO2 gas. 

I am currently running this CO2 set up on another project tank (12L) and it appears to be working well. In fact, I may turn down the bubble rate to > 1bps. :bounce:


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## Down_Shift (Sep 20, 2008)

I might have to try that. I was afraid the co2 gas would mess with the canister and burp bubbles all the time. (Like when you shake the canister to get the air out)


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## BeastMaster (Dec 17, 2012)

*Burping*



Down_Shift said:


> I might have to try that. I was afraid the co2 gas would mess with the canister and burp bubbles all the time. (Like when you shake the canister to get the air out)


The issue of burping could be an issue if the bps rate is high. Right now with my 12L tank where I'm experimenting with this layout, I have the bps rate @ approx 1.5. The burping for this set up occurs about every 80-90 secs with the output double tap throttled to 50% open. The burping and slight presence of minute CO2 mist bubbles is acceptable at this point because I just flooded the tank, want to maximize CO2 for emerged HC and there are no animals present. In about 2 weeks when I'll intro some wild Neos & dial down the bps rate to >1, using the Neos as bio monitors to determine ideal CO2 injection rate. I do enjoy the presence of mist bubbles and periodic burst of more bubbles. It enhances water movement effect in the tank as in a flowing stream. :bounce:


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## Down_Shift (Sep 20, 2008)

I have the same atomizer as you picture in the 12l. So I guess I'll invert the atomizer and give method a try!


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## BeastMaster (Dec 17, 2012)

Down_Shift said:


> I have the same atomizer as you picture in the 12l. So I guess I'll invert the atomizer and give method a try!


Good luck and will be watching the progress on your 60P. :bounce:


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## BeastMaster (Dec 17, 2012)

*Tank Update*

Super Bowl Sunday update pic. Not much more to note other than HC continues to fill in. Will be shaping/trimming the H. glomeratus bushes this week. :bounce:


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## harilp (Feb 23, 2013)

:what: :what: WoW :what: :what:

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## The Trigger (May 9, 2012)

Beautiful! Filling in nicely


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## Jdiesels (Mar 20, 2013)

BeastMaster said:


> Super Bowl Sunday update pic. Not much more to note other than HC continues to fill in. Will be shaping/trimming the H. glomeratus bushes this week. :bounce:


Get some red in that tank! it would look amazing with some red in the background!


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## BeastMaster (Dec 17, 2012)

The Trigger said:


> Beautiful! Filling in nicely


Thanks again. This time around, keeping HC more tightly trimmed.



Jdiesels said:


> Get some red in that tank! it would look amazing with some red in the background!


Any suggestions? Thanks. :bounce:


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## BeastMaster (Dec 17, 2012)

harilp said:


> :what: :what: WoW :what: :what:
> 
> Sent from my Blackberry Playbook using Tapatalk2


It's all G! Good Luck on your planted tank. :bounce:


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## Matsnork (Jun 3, 2013)

Nice tank! 

I´ve been told putting the co2 feed on the inlet can make the bacteria rather unhappy, but if it works it works.


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## BeastMaster (Dec 17, 2012)

Matsnork said:


> Nice tank!
> 
> I´ve been told putting the co2 feed on the inlet can make the bacteria rather unhappy, but if it works it works.


Thank you Mat. Issues about CO2 and bacteria, Co2 attacking filter parts (impellers, o rings) so far are just hear say with no evidence to to back it. I have heard from members on this forum and read on other forums of individuals who have been doing this method of CO2 saturation for extended periods of time without mechanical or biological problems occurring. So far those issues have not risen. Keeping my fingers crossed. :bounce:


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## harilp (Feb 23, 2013)

BeastMaster said:


> It's all G! Good Luck on your planted tank. :bounce:


Thnx alot buddy!!

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## Matsnork (Jun 3, 2013)

BeastMaster said:


> Thank you Mat. Issues about CO2 and bacteria, Co2 attacking filter parts (impellers, o rings) so far are just hear say with no evidence to to back it. I have heard from members on this forum and read on other forums of individuals who have been doing this method of CO2 saturation for extended periods of time without mechanical or biological problems occurring. So far those issues have not risen. Keeping my fingers crossed. :bounce:


Any issues with air/co2 pockets or noise in general from the filter? When the filter burps and hisses from regular air pockets leaving the system it can be quite annoying... 

I must give this setup a try on my eheim 2217 @ sunsun pre filter. The sunsun should act as a sort of a reactor if I'm lucky. I have also got a mixer diffuser left over, and maybe if used together with a inline atomizer on the filter inlet things will dissolve very well... Thoughts on this?


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## BeastMaster (Dec 17, 2012)

Matsnork said:


> Any issues with air/co2 pockets or noise in general from the filter? When the filter burps and hisses from regular air pockets leaving the system it can be quite annoying...
> 
> I must give this setup a try on my eheim 2217 @ sunsun pre filter. The sunsun should act as a sort of a reactor if I'm lucky. I have also got a mixer diffuser left over, and maybe if used together with a inline atomizer on the filter inlet things will dissolve very well... Thoughts on this?


The set up is silent, burps are infrequent and minimal to nonexistent. Possibly the needle valve on my CO2 regulator is turned down low enough (bps>1) and the canister outflow double tap is throttling the water flow (valve position 50% open) to minimize formation of CO2 pockets. Also, the placement of the CO2 atomizer before the filter and running it through the filter media, IMO assists with gas absorption (increased contact time). 

While watching the water flow thru the output lily pipe, I do not observe any micro bubbles zipping thru the pipe. The few micro bubbles seem to form at the fluted end of the lily pipe. It's quite possible that gas absorption is almost complete under pressure (atomizer needs 30-40 psi to operate & additional agitation/compression by the filter's impeller). When the pressure is decreased as the water enters the tank, the CO2 saturated water releases the CO2 in the form of micro bubbles (analogy-opening a container of soda). So that's my theory. Anyways, good luck on your attempt. :bounce:


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## Matsnork (Jun 3, 2013)

This kind of setup almost deserves it's own thread.

When contemplating rebuilding my own setup I remembered that the 2217 has got a bigger inlet, so can't use my current diffuser or reactor. Will have to do some shopping 

Thx for the inspiration


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## merckey (Feb 17, 2013)

My HC carpet gone because of adding some RCS..
Looks like you will get a new carpet ~


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## BeastMaster (Dec 17, 2012)

Matsnork said:


> This kind of setup almost deserves it's own thread.
> 
> When contemplating rebuilding my own setup I remembered that the 2217 has got a bigger inlet, so can't use my current diffuser or reactor. Will have to do some shopping
> 
> Thx for the inspiration


I do have a thread on this topic. Check out "CO2 thru a canister filter" thread in equipment. :bounce:


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## BeastMaster (Dec 17, 2012)

merckey said:


> My HC carpet gone because of adding some RCS..
> Looks like you will get a new carpet ~


This time around will stay on top of trimming to keep low and tight. If carpet gets too lush, Neos & Apistos get underneath and burrow into root system, causing carpet lifting. There's hope for your carpet too. Good luck. :bounce:


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## BeastMaster (Dec 17, 2012)

*Update Pic*

HC continues to fill in and getting thicker so, trimming will happen soon. Did some major trimming of H. glomeratus and E. tenellus. Keeping the tetras but considering removing the A. caucatoides (6 males). Will also be removing the in-tank CO2 diffuser and installing an inline diffuser on the intake line. :bounce:


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## BeastMaster (Dec 17, 2012)

*Quick Update*

Received the CO2 inline diffuser for this tank. Installed diffuser & check valve just below the intake violet pipe and before the Ehiem double taps. Did some trimming of the H. glomeratus and will do the HC next week. The hardscape and plant placement is getting close to the initial layout I was trying to achieve. The major trim back of the E. tenellus was probably the final piece of the puzze to how I visualized the tank layout to be. Tank looks much cleaner with just the newly cleaned violet glass pipes and no in tank CO2 diffuser. Pics to follow after I clean the glass. :bounce:


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## BeastMaster (Dec 17, 2012)

Updated pic. Trimmed H glomeratus again & finally the HC. No in-tank CO2 diffuser now (installed in-line CO2 atomizer). Everything green is pearling! :bounce:


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## exv152 (Jun 8, 2009)

Coming along nicely. How do you like the inline atomizer compared to the old diffuser?


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## BeastMaster (Dec 17, 2012)

exv152 said:


> Coming along nicely. How do you like the inline atomizer compared to the old diffuser?


Thanks, I'm really pleased with changing over from in tank diffuser to inline atomizer. One less thing to see in the tank, more efficent CO2 use & fewer trips to Sports Authority for refills. I have three other tanks that have been converted to this type of CO2 set up. :bounce:


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## BeastMaster (Dec 17, 2012)

Removed the E. tenellus finally. Trimmed & replanted vacant area w/ H. glomeratus. Placed the guava root cluster that is filled /w M.pteropuas "Trident", emerging from behind to the left of the prominent river stone. Also repostioned the intake pipe behind the DW cluster & the upright stone. May have to rename this tank because the inclusion of the cluster? What do you think? :bounce:


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## BeastMaster (Dec 17, 2012)

Buce invasion continues. Superglued a Bucephalandra sordidula aka "Titan" to a small stone and re-superglued a B. diabolica aka "Sherry" to a similar sized stone and placed them both @ the base of the "primary" stone. Slowly moving away from the Iwagumi theme here. If the buces take off & the guava root cluster stays, will have to rename this thread. Any suggestions? :bounce:
Before pic w/ buces 








Buce "Sherry" on the left (single light green leaf) & Buce "Titan" on the right










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## BeastMaster (Dec 17, 2012)

*"Snag" 60P aka "Iwagumi" 60P*

Decided on a new name for this tank journal because of the theme evolving, hence "Snag" (hidden obastacle). :bounce:


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## Morbo (Feb 10, 2013)

Looking great! Really like the guava root and river rock in there.


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## BeastMaster (Dec 17, 2012)

Morbo said:


> Looking great! Really like the guava root and river rock in there.



Thanks! Another gradual change/rescape. Thanks to you, I've got a buce fetish! :bounce:


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## Morbo (Feb 10, 2013)

BeastMaster said:


> Thanks! Another gradual change/rescape. Thanks to you, I've got a buce fetish! :bounce:
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Haha good! Now in the future we can do some trades! 


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## BeastMaster (Dec 17, 2012)

Morbo said:


> Haha good! Now in the future we can do some trades!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Sounds like a plan! :bounce:


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## BeastMaster (Dec 17, 2012)

Replaced the Ray 2 w/ a Planted +. During the changeover, noticed the Ray 2 did not have a power box. Does anybody know if this is the norm for this model? I have both Fugerays & Planted Pluses on all my other project tanks and all the other fixtures have this power box. :bounce:


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## BeastMaster (Dec 17, 2012)

Update pic. Trimmed HC & cleaned the 2213. :bounce:










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## Powerclown (Aug 17, 2014)

Yep,reminds me when I cut my HC,what a mess,floaters for days and filter cleaning


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## BeastMaster (Dec 17, 2012)

Powerclown said:


> Yep,reminds me when I cut my HC,what a mess,floaters for days and filter cleaning



Was a full day w/trimming, skimming & filter cleaning 2X (12L & 60P tanks). Mahalo for looking! :bounce:


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## BeastMaster (Dec 17, 2012)

Trimmed back the aggressive H glomeratus patches. Discovered the Buce "Sherry" & "Titan" are both putting out a few new leaves. The Java Fern "Trident" is putting out rhizomes that are anchoring the guava root cluster to one of the river stones too. :bounce:


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## BeastMaster (Dec 17, 2012)

*Update pics*

Java fern/guava root cluster is complimenting the primary stone well. Recently trimmed the H glomeratus & will be trimming the HC next week. B sordidula ("Titan" left) & B diabolica ("Sherry" right) continue to develop.
:bounce:


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## BeastMaster (Dec 17, 2012)

Progress pic. Completed a trim of HG & "pinned" down sections of the HC carpet. "Trident" Java Fern cluster is now larger than the primary stone.
:bounce:










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## BeastMaster (Dec 17, 2012)

*Rescape*

Removed the ground cover plantings of HC & H glomeratus and relocated the 2 Buces to another project tank. Changed the slopes (or lack of) & graded the AquaSoil from the front to the back corners. The substrate slopes were done "blind" because as the substrate was pushed towards the back corners, mulm that was hidden under the HC, became suspended into the water column. After the mulm settled, this was how the scape looked. You can see the settled lighter colored mulm to the left of the stone layout which was left in there original positions. The "Trident" java fern/guava root cluster was also left intact. 

The tank fauna of Emperor & Cardinal tetras, wild Neos & reduced population of pond snails appears to have weathered the rescape w/o any fatalities.

The next phase in this rescape is removing some of the mulm, planting HC plugs over the exposed slopes & allowing the HC to put out root systems to hold the desired slopes. When the HC has become established, will plant individual sprigs of faster growing Monte Carlo in the remaining available spaces to help hold substrate in place.
:bounce:


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## BeastMaster (Dec 17, 2012)

Pardon the clarity. Removed some of the mulm & planted the HC plugs. :bounce:


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## Freemananana (Jan 2, 2015)

The new slopes look instantly better than the flat scape before! Hoping to see it fill in soon!


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## BeastMaster (Dec 17, 2012)

Freemananana said:


> The new slopes look instantly better than the flat scape before! Hoping to see it fill in soon!



I know what mean. The tank was originally set up with these slopes but the Apistos that I housed in this tank earlier, arraigned the scape to their liking. Haven't gotten around to reinstalling the slopes till now. Hopefully with the incorporating of Monte Carlo (deeper root systems), the slopes will maintain there integrity.
:bounce:


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## BeastMaster (Dec 17, 2012)

Planted interspersed w/HC plugs, trimmings from another project tank ("Ultimus") sprigs of Monte Carlo. Will post pics when MC becomes established.
:bounce:


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## BeastMaster (Dec 17, 2012)

*&quot;Snag&quot; 60P*

Update pic








Previous version had "Trident"Java fern attached to a guava root arraignment that was wedged in between the rock work. The Java fern was allowed to overcome & hide the rock work so, the Java fern & root formation was removed. Rhizomes & small fern plantlets were allowed to remain. After about 4 months, the rhizomes & plantlets formed 4 separate "Trident" patches & miniature Java fern growth on the bare erect stone has resulted. Added a new piece of spider wood that I superglued A nana "petite", B micrantha & small patch of "Trident".
Added a few more cardinal tetras to the remaining school & an otocinlus today.
Also when the overgrown Java fern was removed, I had added a Ehiem compact+ 300 power head to assist w/ stronger circulation pattern.


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## BeastMaster (Dec 17, 2012)

Occupant pics








Pair of A trifasciata arrived today








Replenished school of P axelrodi








Otocinclus sp


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## Chizpa305 (Feb 13, 2011)

What happened to the substrate slopes?


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## BeastMaster (Dec 17, 2012)

Chizpa305 said:


> What happened to the substrate slopes?




In one word, neglect. Did not use anything in the substrate to stabilize the slope on the left side so grade slowly minimized over time before the ground cover took hold. Right side slopes did maintain there grade probably due to a shorter run & the rockwork. Lessons learned.


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## BeastMaster (Dec 17, 2012)

Won some Rineloricaria sp (L10a) @ our local fish club (Honolulu Aquarium Society) monthly meeting. Add a couple to this tank.










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## BeastMaster (Dec 17, 2012)

Added a couple CobaltAquatics Apisto terra cotta huts.










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