# New Plants today (150 G) New Algae!



## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Well it's been 5 days and everything is going well, I have added 2 new female Yellow Kribensis Pelvicachromis sacrimontis and between these and 3 Chained Loaches Botia sidthimunki I have to replant something almost every 8 hours, they also seem to like eating the Dwarf Hairgrass Eleocharis parvulus so I hope it will out grow their eating habits.

I replaced 4 x 65 watt 6,7k compact fluorecent bulbs and now the tank is bright enough to get by until more cash arrives. I also received all my ferts from http://www.greenleafaquariums.com and until I get the rest of my light bulbs and CO2 reactor I will be dosing the PPS Pro system because I don't want to over do it. I also received my new scale via eBay, it's a "DigiWeigh 100 Chrome" and weighs up to a 100 grams and is accurate to 0.01 grams and the price totaled $24.38 and it arrived in only 3 days. I have mixed up a bottle of PPS Pro mix and a bottle Plantex CSM+B and will let them disolve over night and dose in the morning.

I am posting this under the plant section because it mostly revolves around the plants and may be of some help to a newbie or myself, although this tank has been around a while some of the technics have changed and I have never tried these dosing technics and can't wait to see the out come.


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## night9eyes (Jan 12, 2011)

Sounds nice. Pictures please. :bounce:


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## herns (May 6, 2008)

love to see pics.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I really wanted the tank to further along before I posted any photos, comming from almost two years of neglect there are still some problem areas that need to be addressed, but here it goes.








I have done the major part of the cleaning but I still need to get into the corners and scrub out the algae, the Crypts in the front right also have an algae problem that is starting to clear but if it doesn't happen I will remove them and clean by hand (these are leftovers and 5 years old), and this may be the best solution because the substrate under them looks kinda gross. I have to get 4 more new light bulbs, redo the intake and exhaust tubes that will include an external reactor and inline Hydor heaters so the tube style heaters are comming out. I am also going to make the exhaust and intake for the filters vertical in the tank and I am currently searching for some black 1/2" tubing. My filters are Eheim 2215's and both sides will have inline heater, in addition the left side will have a inline CO2 reactor and the right has a UV sterilizer, so I am going to overdrive the filters will impellers from the 2217. I also may use some other plants, for the time being I got what I thought would survive the lighting w/o CO2. plus even with big water changes the tank had a build up of nitrates and the ph was a bit high, although I have vacuumed almost all of the substrate, cleaned both filters, and scrubed out most of the algae, the tank needs some more maintenance to have the water quality needed and at the moment I am kitless as in test kit.


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## herns (May 6, 2008)

150EH said:


> .. I will be dosing the PPS Pro system because I don't want to over do it.


I got algae in my tank using PPS pro. I shifted back to EI dosing and they are in control.

Way to go 150EH!


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

herns said:


> I got algae in my tank using PPS pro. I shifted back to EI dosing and they are in control.
> 
> Way to go 150EH!


That sounds like good advise, I've got an slow outbreak of brown algea and the plants are just doing ok. This shot is 19 days after planting and everything has new growth but has really just got started after a set back that required new impellers for my filters with one side almost comming to a stop I started to get a bacterial scum on the water, so I added a carbon pad thinking it would help but it may have just delayed things and helped with the algea. I'm going to start over dosing a little and see what happens, just till I build a little nitrates, but I don't have a full bottle or reactor yet so I'm taking it slow. My biggest mistake was not over planting from the start.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

The vals and dhg both have a lot of new runners, roots, and new growth but the original leaves have browned and melted, but things should take off here soon.


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## riverbrewer (Nov 1, 2010)

Suggestion... if you would like to see your DHG to spread faster and fill in better, you should yank it out of your tank and separate the small bunches that you currently have planted into much smaller bunches, and replant. In my experience, this planting technique really helped me get my DHG to spread faster and fill in a lot thicker.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I can't my Kribs pull on it and eat it, so it was hard to keep just having to out pace their appetites, but thanks for the suggestion.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

The Diatoms seem to be getting worse and I think it's from silicates in my water but I'm not sure, this tank has always had a small diatom problem that seems to lighten if plants are growing fast. So I am continuing to dose the PPS Pro amounts but on an EI schedule and I can't dose EI amounts because I'm holding off on any water changes thinking this is my problem. Someone else posted that diatoms are from silicates period and the water changes are the culprit, but like all algea I think we have the spores floating waiting for good conditions for them to bloom. I have read poor lighting, poor circulation, and water changes that spike the CO2 in a low tech tank can cause problems by the plants having to readjust from high to low CO2 levels and WC's should be every other month to quarterly on a low tech tank. I also noticed that the problem occured after all of the nitrates were used up from the new plants starting to take off (and a carbon pad I added for a week while one filter was down), so I have stepped up my dosing schedule a little to have a small reserve of nitrates in the water and it seem the diatom are getting worse, but I have read everywhere that this can not be the problem so I guess I'll continue at this rate for now. Thanks for your help and I'm sorry I so dang impatient.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I got 2 new 96 watt compact flourecent 5,500 bulbs installed in my Current USA Orbit light hood today and my CO2 tank is full as I await a Carbon Doser EX5000 CO2 reactor to come UPS tommorro. As for now I have 3.01 wpg with a 1.73 wpg fixture on for 11 hrs and a 1.28 wpg fixture on for 5 hrs for a total of 25.43 wpg per day, just a little over the 24 wpgpd recommended by the PPS site. The plants have perked up and are pearling away with the new light, although the tank did look better slightly after I returned from a weeks vacation at Myrtle Beach, more time is needed for the diatoms to clear, I hoping rapid growth will help. I also ordered 10 Oto's from Petco of all places to help with the diatoms as it is their favorite algea and they will be in next week. After I make some progress I will post a new pic with the hope of good results.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

After only three days the new lighting is paying off, plants growing and pearling like crazy, diatoms are reducing in strenth and coverage, everything is sprouting new leaves. Unfortunately some of the plants have lost many lower leaves from the diatoms and I have not done a water change in a couple of weeks or so and some litter is building in the low flow areas. I added a 28 inch bubble wand on the back glass at the very bottom and this has helped with the surface film and water clairity, it bubbles from 11 pm to 4 am to get flow and O2 in the water, I think the film is from removing my glass covers and may be smoke and kitchen grease but more light is available without them. I still await my reactor via UPS but it should come today, a day late. I have everything ready for CO2 and built my first DIY bubble counter out of a 10 oz. Pepsi bottle today, but the CO2 will run 24/7 until I can afford a new regulator setup. I'm still going to hold off on a new pic until I get a little more progress with my plant growth, I need to hide that big ole green bubble wand.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

My new lights, reactor, and bubble wand have made some difference but progress has been slow due to diatoms and a small outbreak of thread algea due to my regular dosing while not being able to do any water changes. I did a 50% water change Monday and so far all is good with the diatoms and the thread algea seems to be slowing, I deceided to make up some Osmocote gel caps size 00 to put in the substrate because if my tap water has silicates I can not afford or want to play with a RO/DI unit, so this seemed the way to go for now and I will only dose the water column weekly with the PPS Pro system dosing and do monthly water changes. Nothing has really happened with plant growth so I continue to wait in posting a new pic, maybe next week.


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## johnny313 (Apr 15, 2011)

lets see some pics!


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Ok but it hasn't made much progress with all the set backs. I got 6 new Ludwigia peruensis aka Ludwigia glandulosa because the originals looked so bad but are making a come back, 5 Otocinclus that are working very hard to eat my diatoms and if you look at the right side filter intake just above the intake screen one Oto has cleared that patch in 24 hrs, so I'm impressed, 3 new Cherry Barbs (2 males and 1 female), 5 new Rummynosed Tetras, bring my fish load up to 0.61 inches per gallon. It seems things are starting to click so hopefully the next pics will be better as in fuller plants but it will always have flat tank desease.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

These new Oto's are kick'n a$$ the intake is almost completely clean after 48 hrs, I can't believe how hard these little fish work, I will never own a tank without Oto's from here out, they are true Mighty Migets!


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## johnny313 (Apr 15, 2011)

looking good! what size tank is it?


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

A 150 tall 4' w x 2' d x 2'6" tall, thanks for the incouragement. It's been just over a week since a water change and the Osmocote gel caps and it looks as if they have just kicked in and the Cabomba is 4" taller most plants have new leaves but the diatoms are still on some of the leaves, I'll post a new pic in a week or so.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

It's been 47 days and I'm finally starting to see some progress in the tank, it's been a long time since I planted a tank or dosed any ferts, so I wanted to start out with easy fast growing plant in case I had problems and I did. Now I will be able to start trimming and replanting to fill the tank with plants and it's amazing to see the water clear, suface scum clear as soon as the plants start to grow and balance out everything. This pic is just 4 days from the last pic and the Oto's have really been cleaning, look at the right side filter intake then look at the last pic.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Well the excitement is building for me as my monthly pay is about to arrive, this means I can finally get the ballasts, fans, bulbs, & tranformer required to bring my Current USA hood back to it's original glory, so the fish will need sunglasses for a short period of the day but they will also have some moon lighting to enjoy at night. It also will get me a step closer to getting the exact layout and plants I want, some of these will stay and some will be replaced by plants with higher light requirements. At some point I would like to get some rocks and do something a little different by getting rid of the flat tank syndrome and I may be able to use my current substrate for filler and have a top layer of a couple of inches of ADA AS, I could use the added nutrients and I also like the look of the AS, but all this would mean finding a place to put my fish for a couple of days or better, but this is so far into the future that it's of little concern at this point.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

The Plague is upon me and green water has shown it's ugly face, just after the plants have started to grow and I was starting to think of the fall replant to get the tank exactly as I would like it, another problem. I never had these problems on the original set up of the tank because everything was new, clean, and in proper working order. I have an 8 watt Aqua UltraViolet UV sterilizer plumbed into the right side canister exhaust but it has been burnt out for quite some time and the transformer is more than likely dead, so I'm looking at another $120 to fix it when I want to spend money in other directions. I just finished fixing my Current USA light hood with a fan, 2 ballasts, and the moonlight transformer, I still need some bulbs (2 x 96w) and 4 new 3mm led's and it's done. My wife just bought me a couple of JBJ wide flow circulation pumps with a pulse controller http://www.marinedepot.com/JBJ_Oceanstream_Circulation_Pump_Powerhead_%2b_Duo_Wavemaker_Kit_Fixed_Flow_Aquarium_Powerheads-JBJ_Lighting-JB6331-FIPHFF-vi.html for fathers day. They are big and ugly but the tank needs flow plus they are smaller than the Korilla and yield more control and in the fall rescape I'll find a way to hide them. The whole point of the current tank setup is for me to get back in the ball game, get this setup right, and figure out a final plan to have a beautiful tank, so much has changed over the years and there's a lot to learn on new technics.

Now I have to deceide if I should fix my old UV sterilizer or remove it for more flow from my canister filter and get a Green Killing Machine from Petco for $43 and just plop it in the tank until the GW is gone, then I can just store it until it's needed again or put it on a schedule for a week out of every 6 months. I like this idea because it's cheap and it will last a long time if it's not runnnig constantly.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Bummer and it was looking so promising.


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## Kathyy (Feb 22, 2010)

That is what happened to me 10 years ago. I got the BGA gone and bam - green water. That time the tank needed nitrate to come out of it but since then it has been due to disturbing the tank cycle more than anything else I think. You can sit back and squint so as to not see BBA, GSA and all the rest but GW is sort of obvious.

Well thinking on the flat tank syndrome issue doesn't cost anything. Maybe you could go beach/lake/river combing and get lucky or find some long twisty sticks and put them together.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

There's no BBA, just some old diatoms and the green water looks really bad now, even worse than that pic, way worse. I do want some driftwood but around here it's all flat and been in saltwater, I also like the Igwami (I don't know the spelling) rocks a lot. This scape is just for now while study and learn, plus there were so many things that needed to be fixed and adressed on this tank, everything was broken or burnt out and I only have a little extra cash each month for the tank. But I've seen some nice driftwood in the SnS and a ton of great plants, most of what you see is going in the fall and I will only be keeping the Crypts, some of the vals maybe, everything else is gone and I may do a dance on the dwarf hair grass.


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

If you end up looking for another UV I've got a 9 watt Coralife in the SnS taht is negotiable.

Craig


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Fish load
2 Acanthophthalmus kuhli - Kuhli Loach 
1 Boraras Brigittae - Chili Rasbora 
3 Botia sidthimunki - Dwarf Chained Loach
4 Pangio oblonga - Black Kuhli Loach
8 Paracheirodon simulans - Green Neon Tetra
1 Pelvicachromis pulcher - Kribensis (male)
4 Pelvicachromis sacrimontis - Yellow Kribensis (1 male, 3 female)
9 Puntius titteya - Cherry Barb (2 male, 1 female)
6 Otocinclus affinis - Dwarf Suckermouth Catfish
5 Otocinclus vitattus




Plant list
Amblystegiaceae sp. "Manaus" 
Anubias Barteri Nana Petite
Aponogeton crispus
Bacopa caroliniana
Blyxa aubertii
Blyxa japonica
Crinum calamistratum 
Cryptocoryne affinis
Cryptocoryne beckettii 
Cryptocoryne crispatula var. balansae 
Cryptocoryne nurii 
Cryptocoryne wendtii brown
Cryptocoryne wendtii Green Gecko
Cryptocoryne wendtii v. tropica 
Echinodorus Angustifolia "Vesuvius" 
Fissidens fontanus 
Fissidens fontanus sp. mini 
Hydrocotyle tripartita 'Japan' 
Hygrophilia angustifolia
Lysimachia nummularia v. 'aurea'
Mayaca fluviatilis
Microsorum pteropus "narrow" 
Nesaea pedicellata 'golden'
Notocyphus lutescens 
Rotala macrandra 'Japan red'
Rotala sp. colorata 
Rotala Wallichii
Staurogyne sp. 'Porto Velho' 
Vallisneria asiatica var. biwaensis 
Vallisneria nana
Vesicularia dubyana

After a computer crash recently this is a good place to keep some back up info!


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

78 days in and I'm still fighting but it seems to be getting easier and the key to that was the circulation pumps. Yesterday I tried to back wash one canister filter and made a mess by only letting it flush for a gallon or so and I clouded the tank and all the dust settled on the plant leaves. I should have done a water change while back flushing to keep this from happening, live and learn. I do have a small GDA and Thread algae problem that I'm working on but my biggest problem is I hate this plant selection and a replant is coming this fall, but the plants are doing better dispite their leggy appearance from earlier mistakes.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

You could try trimming your stems and get them to branch out and get more bushy. Plant the trims right next to the original plants too.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

The Cobomba is really thick but browned and has yet to recover from the low lighting periods of the above greew water problem, plus I don't like their thin see through nature, the Ludwigia is bare at the bottom from an earlier diatom outbreak that made the bottom leaves fall off but I did pick up 5 more at my LFS but they didn't make it for some reason, the originals are putting out roots that may lead to new plants so I'm just waiting on that, the vals and crypts are fine but I don't like the low hieght of these vals, the DHG is getting pulled out by the Kribs and SAE so that's losing ground on a daily basis, and the sword and onion have never taken off, so go figure. I'm just going to let this grow for now but I might hack the Cobomba down to get new green growth.


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## Kathyy (Feb 22, 2010)

The sword and onion may be biding their time still. There are small swords but unlikely you lucked onto one.

Make the Ludwigia into a bush, that would look nice.

Too bad about the hairgrass, that is a major worry for me too. The fish I have are fine with it but I want one more species and I don't want to chose a hairgrass grazer!

How about some fast growing pretty Hygrophilias? H. angustifolia or difformis might give you some mass and height while you work on that flat tank issue.

Or my favorite, Hydrocotyle leucocephala?


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

If I had some blyxa in front of the Ludwigia that are would look fine by hiding the underneath, the Cobomba has to go and could get replaced by one of your suggestions, I would like to try Staurogyne repens or Pogostemon helferi in the foreground, I had H. polysperma before and it was a crazy good grower to the water line and came back fast from trimming. I guess I'll have to wait, see, & save, I really like the P. helferi but they are a pricey slow grower so I would need quite a few to fill in good. There are a lot of good plants for sale in the SnS but I want to wait for fall so they don't get trashed in transit, until then it will have to be my LFS for any plants. I've been meaning to see who orders plants there because their prices and selection seems to be exactly what AP.com sells at the same price but they tend to stay away from the more exotic plants and keep only the norm, so that could pan out. BTW Kathy I scoop out 10 good DHG plants with inch long roots and 5 to 10 blades to each every morning, so it's growing really good but my old Krib males really just pull it because their bored, anyone want a pair of 5 year old Kribs, one with hole in the head????


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

The Sword is "Vesuvius" and it only gets 12 inches tall or so, it was doing well at first with lots of new growth but after the diatoms it never recovered, a hard trimming may be in the future. I wanted to add this to my journal because it really caught me off gaurd, yesterday I removed my inline Aqua UltraViolet UV Sterilizer it had quit working 5 or more years ago and I was just too lazy to get it out of there, but it happened yesterday and I let it sit in the sink for a couple of hours thinking that the inside of this thing was going to be really nasty, the lines leading to the unit were really dirty but inside the unit was spotless. I couldn't believe it, no gunk or slime just a light dust and the white pvc was stained to a light brown but it was clean, even the quartz sleeve the bulb slides into was crystal clean, I guess the 12/16 mm Eheim tubing gets slimed from the fast moving water but the UV has about a 3" housing so the water must slow down and it leaves no deposits at all inside.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I've been having one problem after another and every time I think I have it licked something else pops up. I've been having a thread algae problem so I was cranking the C02 like crazy and my drop checker never gets past a bright green so I thought my reactor would not deliver enough C02 to ever kill any fish, wrong I gassed 5 Rummynosed tetras and 2 Green Neon Tetras the other morning. So I am paying closer attention to the fish but still using the drop checker as well, plus I cut most of my Cobomba down to 4 inches or so and reduced my lighing a lot to help with the algae and lower my C02 requirements. I cut one light fixture to 7.5 hours and the other to 4 hours, this is an over all reduction of 4.5 hours and it seems to be working well, so time will tell. As I was making all these changes and doing a little clean up I noticed a single clump of BBA on my driftwood, I couldn't believe my eyes because I haven't seen any in this tank for way over 7 years, I cleaned it out right away and hopefully I won't see any more. It seemed the lighting has really helped a lot and a difference has been noticed daily, it's kinda funny because I have had way more lighting on this tank but with taller and faster growing plants, but the combo just doesn't work with the current plant selection. Anyway I got 14 more Rummynosed Tetras for a total of 25 and plan to get more in the future, I really like the effect of a large school but I want to wait for some of my old stock that is way too big to die off. I don't know why I'm having such a hard time this go around but I hope it ends soon before I just give up, it's starting to turn into work, not fun.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Well the 30" depth of that tank alone makes it much harder to work in unless you are an ex NBA center. The tank looks good so keep it up. Just do small changes and wait patiently for the results before the next change.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

The tank has settled and all is going well at this time with no algae (not much) and decent growth from the plants, some of the plants are still leggy from earlier problems but when fall comes I will renovate the problem areas. Micro eco-systems are so delicate and it seems the smallest change will upset the balance quickly, I find the higher summer temps change everything in the tank and I have learned to reduce the fertilizer amounts to help keep algae in check with less oxygen in the water at 78 to 82 degrees. I want to post my dosing amounts here to keep a record of what is working good in my tank, this was posted by plantbrain and is just a slight variation on EI dosing (which is slightly different at most forums):

EI dosing for a 50 gallon tank:
2-3x a week:
1/2 teaspoon KNO3
1/8th teaspoon of the KH2P4
_I think he meant KH2P04_
Add K2SO4 after water change, say 1 teaspoon

CMS+B, I'd add 1 TABLE spoon into 500mls of water, 1 teaspoon of MgSO4(Epsom salt), dose 15mls 3x a week

The only thing I'm doing different is using Barr's gH Booster instead of the recommended K2S04.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Tank photo update at 121 days after a long overdue rescape and the tank has pretty well settled after it's share of problems due to many factors like OTS and old person syndrome because I had to do a little research to get back in the game.

This will be the last photo for a while (I hear crowds cheering) with the summer heat leaving I want to start looking for some new plants and maybe a nice piece of wood. The fish load is at 0.73 ipg and there won't be too many additions in the stock department unless I can find something really cool and colorful.


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## jart (Jan 17, 2003)

Looks good. I had the same problem as you with my DHG (gold barbs kept pulling it out).


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Thanks, yeah my Kribs (pulcher) have been pulling it out all summer and have finally won the battle, well kinda. They are both (one now) very old and born in the tank near 3-31-2005 and now just one left, but he tugs away while giving me a dirty look, like I did something wrong to him. 

From my very first set up I have 1 Krib, 1 SAE, & 3 Dwarf Chained Loaches that I would like to see go soon, but I'm too nice to snuff them, so they are grandfathered in for now. They have eaten the DHG and some Myrio Filigree I added in the back, I was going to try Pogostemon helferi but I read some place that fish love to eat that as well.

I was thinking of S. repens or just Crypt wentii as foreground, we have a plant that grows in the culvert ditch next to the road here, right now it's not submerged but the bright green/yellow (looks like S repens) really stands out while driving down the road. I first noticed it in a nieghbors lawn and thought there's no way it could be related but then I saw the ditch, the plants are big and a normally under water all year but we've had a drought this year so I must check soon. If I were that lucky it would be a mega supply and I've been meaning to get some pics up for the plant guru's.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Well I needed CO2 right before the hurrican hit so I had to go to S. Baltimore this Saturday morning, the good news is I upgraded to a 10 pound tank that should last me 100 day between fills. I stopped by my LFS on the way home and made a couple good finds, first a motherplant of Cryptocoryne wendtii v. tropica and it was beautiful but I pulled it apart and made 5 good sized plants for only $5.98. I also got 3 bunches of Bacopa caroliniana which made 24 plants in all, I cleaned them up and made a hedge in front of my Ludwigia peruensis which is very ugly near the substrate. I also took out my Echinodorus Angustifolia "Vesuvius" and removed all the rock wool, for some reason it seems to be pushing itself out of the substrate and exposing the rock wool, I was very suprised the roos had nt even grown out of the rock wool so maybe this will help the plant. 

I post updated photos after the dust settles from planting.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

This is my new Crypt wendtii v. tropica, it was a single and really beautiful plant but I wanted to spread it out a little.








These are just my old C. wendtii brown but I love the leaves and a Cherry Barb bonus, try not to look at any algae or dirt.


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## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

Beautiful Crypts


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## jart (Jan 17, 2003)

Wow. Great color on those fish.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Thanks, I wanted to post a couple more, Ludwigia peruensis starting to pearl.








This was just added and looked like brown leather when I purchased it but it changed and I hope it doesn't all melt away, but it is starting to brown.








Another of the not my best photo series, but these guys are always on the move so the upper left shows the scales & tail and the top right is a good tail shot.








and just one more of my old buddie the SAE, he predates 5-30-2005









BTW the good color in the fish is NLS Thera + A and it contains garlic to keep fish healthy and colorful and a variety of Ken's Foods I got here at the SnS from bsmith


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I added a new Eheim 2217 to this tank on August 26th and the difference in flow and water quality is amazing, the flow is really just too much with my Crinium & Apons long leaves are just laying over in the direction of the flow, and the water has become invisible, it's really clear. For years I have only had 2 Eheim 2215 canisters with 2217 impellers and I've added circulation pumps and still there has always been small bits floating about, but these filters are really old (8 years) so it may be time for the to go.

The difference beyond the clearer water is, cleaner glass, some algae problems on substrate clearing, and the same on some plants. I should just focus on growing algae because I seem to be very good at that, with many varieties growing at all times.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I am so blown away at the power difference with the 2217 I finally got out and bought some CPVC for some custom intakes and returns on my tank, it will have dual intakes with a single spraybar. I made up the spraybar and it's going to stand vertically at 27 inches tall with 18 holes, here's where it gets a little wierd, I painted black for a low profle but it's going to stand in the front right corner of the tank allowing flow from the bottom to the top spraying across the front glass. It should work really good but I'm not sure how it's going to look, but I can cut it and use it in the traditional location if it looks funky.

But the new plumbing will allow me to drain and fill my tank from inside the stand and is set up with valves so I can make permanent connections later if I like. The thing is I'm not really sure this tank is going to stay in this location and permanent hook ups would be made by drilling thru the wall into my garage, so I'll wait.

I was so inspired by wasserpest plywood tank that I've deceided to do one and it will have all the bells and whistles with automated water changes and most of the equipment in the garage, so it will be dead silent. After my daughter moves out (2 months) I will start with the 383 gallon monster, but I will take my time and this thing can not leak!!!!!!!!!This room has a concrete floor so both tanks are no problem it would just be too man cave for comfort, but will see.

Until then I'll take some pics of the spraybar, it's together and painted and really no big deal I just needed to get the Eheim green out of the tank and with the new filter getting seeded with nitrifying bacteria and the old filters still running, there's a ton of Eheim green.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

You can see all the Eheim green doesn't look too good but it won't be long before it's gone.


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## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

Looks good, will look great grown in


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Thanks and I've got some growth on the way, for the first time ever I'm going to try my hand at some Riccia fluitans, I plan on attaching it to a rock, and some Peacock moss that I want to attach to my wood.

My biggest problems is my SAE, I've heard thes guys are like lawn mowers when it comes to moss, he has been in the tank for over 5 years but is one of a couple of old fish that are not in my new plan so I'm just waiting.









Here's another problem my old friend Pelvicachromis pulcher was born in this tank around 5-30 2005 and his parents are long gone, his brother died just a week or 2 ago but this guy is mean, he has pulled out a 3 x 5 inch square of Dwarf Hairgrass one blade at a time, every morning I would get the net and remove beautiful little plantlets of DHG with inch long roots and finally he won the battle after 3 months, but if he doesn't like it, it's not staying in the tank.








He will just suck up some substrate and spit it at you, I think he should have a little hat and a cigar, he's like a gangster. But I want my tank to be different with some smaller plants, shrimp, etc. so I want these two guys gone but don't know anyone who would want them.

Any advise on the ricca or peacock moss would be appreciated as I've never kept either.


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

As for the Riccia I would recommend netting it around some easy to remove rocks for easy maintence and care. For hte moss you can attach it to teh wood via string, fishing line, or super glue all work well.

Craig


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Really super glue, at some point does the moss attach it self to the wood, I know Ricca doesn't but there seems to be some confusion with the moss and finding good sites with good info seems a little harder to come by.


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## jweis (Jan 31, 2011)

I have used black thread and also clear beading thread to attach my ricca and moss to my driftwood and it has worked well.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I used a green scrubby fo the Riccia and it worked really well and it started growing thru it and pearling before the end of the first day, so I know why people say it's a weed. The problem is I don't think the Riccia is going to hide all of the scrubby so it won't be the look I'm going for and I might even break down and buy some of the Riccia stones and accessories at the ADA shop, we'll see.

The Peacock moss was a breeze with the super glue, I just used one of my extra dollor store scubbys and cleaned the wood very well before attaching the moss, so now it's just watch and wait and hope it attaches itself a little.

My first GWAPA metting is coming up and I'm very excited, this could be the last plants needed and some big driftwood for my tank, everybody seems very friendly and has a load of great plants and other goodies.


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

nice tank!


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

jweis said:


> I have used black thread and also clear beading thread to attach my ricca and moss to my driftwood and it has worked well.


I kept looking at the name & address, it took me a minute to put it all together, see my tanks need all those things plus some.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

nonconductive said:


> nice tank!



Thanks, it's a work in progress, I need more cash.


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

150EH said:


> Thanks, it's a work in progress, I need more cash.


you and me both!


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## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

150EH said:


> I used a green scrubby fo the Riccia and it worked really well and it started growing thru it and pearling before the end of the first day, so I know why people say it's a weed. The problem is I don't think the Riccia is going to hide all of the scrubby so it won't be the look I'm going for and I might even break down and buy some of the Riccia stones and accessories at the ADA shop, we'll see.
> 
> The Peacock moss was a breeze with the super glue, I just used one of my extra dollor store scubbys and cleaned the wood very well before attaching the moss, so now it's just watch and wait and hope it attaches itself a little.
> 
> My first GWAPA metting is coming up and I'm very excited, this could be the last plants needed and some big driftwood for my tank, everybody seems very friendly and has a load of great plants and other goodies.


What all that hard work and you're not showing it off?


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

2in10 said:


> What all that hard work and you're not showing it off?


Fine, I'll take a photo, but you'll just have a good laugh at the guy with a green scrubby wrapped around a rock, I might as well get the treasure chest with the pirate ship that's broken in half.

Tommorro after lights on, I kinda wanted to wait until I got all the matching Eheim tubing out too.


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## tuffgong (Apr 13, 2010)

Looks good!! Very interested in your custom spray bars as that is a project I will probably be undertaking in the next few weeks myself.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

tuffgong said:


> Looks good!! Very interested in your custom spray bars as that is a project I will probably be undertaking in the next few weeks myself.


It was a little more expensive that I though but the exhaust/spraybar side cost me $45 or slightly more, I have one new 2217 getting seeded and need to buy the other 2217 before I can install it, but it's comming along slowly.

I won't name anybody but I've seen other tanks sit a year or more and never even get wet.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

So here's my new spraybar idea, I never liked having the powerheads in the tank but flow is needed across the front of the tank where the plants are low then at the other end it should return across the back glass to the orignal end but in the back, in theory. So instead of powerheads I thought a spraybar from top to bottom powered by 2 Eheim 2217's would do the trick, remember my tank is only 48 inches long. So in the photo the right side has 18 holes and is the same as 2 Eheim spraybars, after it's installed on the tank I will add a couple 45 degree fittings with 2 hydor heaters at an angle and I have a shut off valve with a hose thread for refills if needed, oh the pipe is 3/4 ID CPVC and my tank has a light valance so you won't see anything but the spray bar and it should be less noticeable than 2 powerheads and only 2 black pipes instead of 4 green pipes.

I will also make an intake with 1" CPVC painted black and a 1" x 6.5 inch overflow intake that is pictured below to reduce the clutter in the tank and keep shrimp from getting sucked up by the intake.


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## mscichlid (Jul 14, 2008)

Can't wait to see your spraybar in action.


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## Ben. (Mar 29, 2011)

looks very nice, the only thing I would be worried about is that gangster fish, I think he would hunt them down:/


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I'm really getting fed up, my tank is old (8) and has OTS or something, when I started this rebuild I got all my rocks and wood really clean, Chlorox clean. I took a photo today with flash and was grossed out with all the algae/dirt on my rocks and substrate, and this collects on plant leaves too, do I need RO/DI, more light, a new tank?

The photo is cool, I saw some substrate moving at the base of a rock, then a Kuhli's head and right behind him a Dwarf Chain Loach, they were working together all morning and made several exits, too cool! This rocks been there since April and even before that it's set there for years and I've never seen them do this before, the Kuhli's are fat and I'm hopping a Mom.

Take a look at my fish and dirt!










And his buddy is right behind him plus later they made more holes to the right in between those 2 rocks.










I been thinking about this all night and it is what it is and it will never be a super perfect rimless show tank that is spotless, but if the fauna are at home and are decorating their space I'm not going to pick up the rock and scrub it spotless, even if I'm itching too. I would like to figure out this water thing, soon.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Well I figured I make my 2,000 post here at my own journal, not that it really matters. I think my dirty tank is comming from particulate matter in the water that doesn't get removed when the water softening system runs out of salt, now everthing in the tank suddenly has a light dusting of dirt, like a diatom outbreak is near, god let hope not. I have added salt to the system and hopefully it will cycle before the Friday water change.

I wanted to add this photo of my Riccia the day after it was put in the tank you can see stubble, kinda like a 5 o'clock shadow already. I'm going to take another pic on Saturday that will be a week and this stuff has really grown. It's an ugly pic and the scrubby was bright green but the Riccia is even brighter which makes it hard to photograph, at any rate I don't think the scrubby method will work as it will always be visible near the underside.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Woooooooo whoooooooooooooo, I'm not a Wannabe Guru anymore, I'm a Planted Tank Guru because I type too much!!!


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

the way you were describing i thought it was going to be much worse than the posted pics. it doesnt look bad at all. you should see my white sand after about a month of not cleaning it.


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

150EH said:


>


That really is a cool view of that loach.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I'd hate to run into him in a dark alley with that 6 way fu man chu! 

I don't if that spelling is even close?

I really need to get my moonlighting back in working condition, too see what these guys are up to at night.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

As you can see in my signature I joined the Greater Washington Aquatic Plant Association or GWAPA and attended my fist meeting on the 24 of September, it was a blast to be around all the plant geeks and most of them are really smart, Botanist, another guy that produced Cryptocoryne nurii from a tissue sample but he's a Software Engineer and he has a second degree in Chemistry, that comes in handy. We also had Rachael from Invertebrates by Msjinkzd and she spoke about inverts and selective breeding plus she brought us a beautiful group order, it was really fun and if you live in the area I highly reccomend join'n the fun.

I took an Eheim 2215, some Osmocote tabs, and a dozen Corkscrew Vals to sell in the auction and came home with:

$11 cash I was due after selling my stuff
Cryptocoryne "nurii" a mother plant with 3 little plantlets attached
4 beautiful Cryptocoryne beckettii with big roots
2 big Cryptocoryne crispatula var. balansae with really good roots
4 big Hygrophilia angustifolia stems
Ludwigia repens x L. arcuata 
Rotala sp. colorata just 3 little stems
15 or 20 tiny Staurogyne sp. 'Porto Velho' stems 
15 or 20 nice Vallisneria nana 

and all for $22 if I hadn't sold stuff

Oh, Rachael brought me 7 Chili Rasboras and 30 Red Cherry Shrimp.

I stuffed most of it in my tank but couldn't fit it all, plus it allowed me to get rid of my nasty looking Green Cobomba.

I have also been working under my tank and painted the interior of my stand white and it makes a big difference, I can actually see what's in there. I also installed a new 18 inch T8 light to see even better and a new gang of 6 duplex outlets spread 2 inches apart so I have no problems with timers and this allowed me to get rid of 2 power strips that were always falling and spinning the timers, so it all works better & looks cleaner.

I also received my second 2217 yesterday and I am just waiting on a 6.5 x 1 inch inlet strainer so I can install my new spraybar & intake, and after I get that done I'll post a couple of pics if anybody wants to look. I'm also saving for my RO/DI unit, I'm done playing with diatom outbreaks and silt settling on the leaves of my plants, I just can't do it any other way. My garage is on the other side of my man cave so it will be a gravity fed tank fill by turning a valve under the tank to get water form my RO/DI water storage tank and the drain will also be under the tank via valve that will water the flower bed in front of my house, I can't wait.

Any thoughts????????????


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## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

Great shot of the fish. I would consider a pre-filter installed before your RODI so you do not go through cartridges as quick in the filter. I agree the tank doesn't look all that dirty. Congrats on the haul from the meeting.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Thanks, I do need to talk to someone who is well informed about water systems our house does have a water softner catching some of our liquid rock, the norm is 2.8 kH & 6.7 gH which I could live with but the silicates are getting thru untouched and lately the number got higher because I let the salt tank run empty.

The Haul from the metting was sweet, thanks.


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## mjbubbles (Aug 26, 2011)

I dream of a system that will water my flower beds, that does not involve me carrying buckets! Yours sounds really great. I may try running a hose out the window and along the side of the house.


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## msjinkzd (May 12, 2007)

It was nice to meet you! I think your tank is lovely!


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

mjbubbles said:


> I dream of a system that will water my flower beds, that does not involve me carrying buckets! Yours sounds really great. I may try running a hose out the window and along the side of the house.


I'm going to bore a hole right through my cinderblock (stucco house) into the front bed, I can't imagine a 62 gallon water change with a bucket and I've thought of going out the window before but that means sucking on a hose to get a syphon started and I hate the way fish pee tastes.



msjinkzd said:


> It was nice to meet you! I think your tank is lovely!


I appreciate your kindness but I didn't see you with any glasses on at the meeting. I did really like Julie's tanks they were perfect little worlds in minature plus spotless clean and trimmed. I going to build a little garden cube for our livingroom with shrimp and move those Chili Rasboras where they would be a little happier with friends more thier size.

It's taken me since 2004 to figure out the multi quote, this is my first.


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

We demand pics...


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

A shot of the whole tank, sorry but it's early and I'm not very worried about fine photography, but you can see it's bright with the white paint, clean brushes & nets are hung on the right door and I built 2 little boxes for food, mag float etc. on the left door.










This is my new electric outlets and I need to go back and hit some areas that still need paint, oh new light on left










Below you can see my old Dupla 400 regulator but it works good and I really do use my test kit to sit my bubble counter on until I add a longer piece of tubing, then I'll try to sell the test kit, it really in worthless but I paid almost $40 for it.









here's my Riccia rock that I used a scrubby to hold down the plant, it has filled in nicely. Also you can see my Peacock Moss and the Excel dosing is cleaning it up some but it's growing good.


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

Looking good.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Thanks, it getting closer anyway, can't wait to get the RO/DI unit and get to work on the scape.


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## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

I agree it dos look good, you will be very happy with the RODI and controlling all of your water parameters.


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## jart (Jan 17, 2003)

Great looking tank; I'm jealous regarding all those plants you bought.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Thanks, it was a good deal and fun, I highly reccomend joining any club in your area, plus after 8 years of pronouncing the latin names completely wrong I got to hear the right way.


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## [email protected] (Apr 27, 2011)

Tank looks great, as always. I am also trying to get some Riccia to mat so I can add that to my tank. I think the bright green would contrast well with the other darker ones. It is slow going right now though. I hope to, one day, have underneath mine as clean and organized as yours! I was just too anxious to get it set up and going to worry about what was behind closed doors


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Tony it took me eight years to do that, but it is much better underneath and this week I'm adding a 192 more watts of light and new plumbing so I'll post some new pics soon, thanks for the kind words.

I want to get some 3/4 flag stone and cut it into random small sized pieces 2 x 4 or so, then flake each piece into 3 - 1/4 thick pieces, then when you tie on the Riccia, Fissidens, etc., you will never see the underneath with exposed string, mesh, or what ever you use, this is what ADA sells and it's 10 pieces for $10. A 30 x 30 x 3/4 piece of flag is about $15 or $20 so there is good money in this deal, but the cool thing is you can just drop them on the substrate and remove them to trim.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Here's dirty picture of one Cherry cleaning my silicone, I have no idea how you youngsters can see shrimp that are berried or have a puff of white fungus on their heads, I can't even see them good after I get the photo on the monitor!










My new intake will be handling both of my filters it's a monster at 6.5 x 1 inches with each hole big enough to swallow a Cherry or Amano whole so I had to wrap it with vinyl screen and hold it in place with wire ties, the new plumbing is all black so I painted the intake black as well and after adding the screen & ties I hit it again with the same black paint, I was worried all the different blacks would lokk different once it got under water.










More to come!


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

That is smart how you planted that Riccia.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

hydrophyte said:


> That is smart how you planted that Riccia.


Thanks, it did make it easier than trying thread but I don't like how you can still see the underside a little, if the rock had of been flat it would have worked perfectly, live & learn it's my first time with Riccia.

The shrimp and Chili Rasboras love the floating Riccia and it makes trimming the rock a breeze, no clean up just more floating.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

FTS before new plumbing


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

Needs more plants....


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

Wow. That is a whole lotta tank. I like it.roud:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

This will look great after it fills in some. I'm subscribing to keep an eye on your progress.


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

looks great 150, should fill in nicely.

i particularly liked "do not drink"


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

nonconductive said:


> i particularly liked "do not drink"


I would have trouble following that, as it is on a Mt. Dew bottle. Lol.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Craigthor said:


> Needs more plants....


I know, plants & driftwood, the meeting is at "That Pet Place" this Saturday (2 hour drive to PA) so I come home with plants from the auction, we are going to stop by Rachaels on the way out and one member is bringing me H. Pinnatifida so it will be a little different next week. 

I wanted to put in my new plumbing today but you know the saying "Stuff Happens" well you know what I meant.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

sewingalot said:


> This will look great after it fills in some. I'm subscribing to keep an eye on your progress.


Thanks, it's comming little by little.



nonconductive said:


> looks great 150, should fill in nicely.
> 
> i particularly liked "do not drink"


My son really likes Moutain Dew and I didn't want him to grow any bigger!



cableguy69846 said:


> I would have trouble following that, as it is on a Mt. Dew bottle. Lol.


See, that's what he would have said, right after he burped an said "sorry Dad"


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

lol


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> See, that's what he would have said, right after he burped an said "sorry Dad"


Lol. That would be my reply as well. If you look at my thread, everything that requires a bottle is in a 2 liter Mt. Dew bottle. *Sips Mt. Dew as he finishes typing.*roud:


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I need to get my off camera flash set up (thanks speedie) but until then this is as good as they get!

Chili Rasbora









RCS diving for a plant and Mr. Cichlid is watching (out of frame) but his little back legs are just a blur!


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

Very nice pics man. How many of the chili's do you have? And can you tell me a bit more about them?:icon_mrgr


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I only have 3 out of 7, the first night 4 disappeared but these guys have hung in there. They are tiny little fish but juvies and I will move them to a shrimp tank after it gets built but until then they stay at the top of the tank and never stray down to even mid tank. Their mouths are tiny so they only eat flake and their size makes them great for nano tanks by adding very little bio load, I got them from Rachael and they were all very healthy but the missing 4 either got eaten or had heart attacks when the saw their new home, but there are RCS in the tank that are smaller and don't get eaten. Oh, the green blob is Riccia floating and they like floaters it gives them something to hide under, plus they are also called Misquito Rasbora so they must eat them or their larve near the surface.

I'm going to get some more after my shrimp tank apears.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> I only have 3 out of 7, the first night 4 disappeared but these guys have hung in there. They are tiny little fish but juvies and I will move them to a shrimp tank after it gets built but until then they stay at the top of the tank and never stray down to even mid tank. Their mouths are tiny so they only eat flake and their size makes them great for nano tanks by adding very little bio load, I got them from Rachael and they were all very healthy but the missing 4 either got eaten or had heart attacks when the saw their new home, but there are RCS in the tank that are smaller and don't get eaten. Oh, the green blob is Riccia floating and they like floaters it gives them something to hide under, plus they are also called Misquito Rasbora so they must eat them or their larve near the surface.
> 
> I'm going to get some more after my shrimp tank apears.


Very nice. That would be perfect for me to put in Shrimptopia. I was thinking of something like that, but not anything that will eat the shrimp as that is the reason for the tank.

What size tank are you doing for the shrimp, and what kind of shrimp?


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I want to build a 30 x 10 x 10 like a panoramic tank with nano fish, RCS, and mosses, fissidens, some riccia stones, etc., but mostly everything small. I odn't want to try any shrimp that are hard to breed or that are expensive, I want them running about like roaches but if something happened I can't afford to lose big bucks, beside RCS are really cool little creatures.

If the fish are $2.50 each and RCS a $1.50 each it will stll be $75 to a $100 in live stock, then add plants (some I'll have), the tank and light, and I have an Eheim 2215 I can use, but it will near $325 in the end or more. That's hard to come by at my house!

I'm having trouble finding the glass (Starphire) in Maryland so I may just do plate glass but the tank would be like the GLA 90-B but just a little shorter.

RSC checking the tank temperature or she thinks those are eggs! Look how long and delicate her feeler antena are!









Cherry Barb eating Peacock Moss!


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> I want to build a 30 x 10 x 10 like a panoramic tank with nano fish, RCS, and mosses, fissidens, some riccia stones, etc., but mostly everything small. I odn't want to try any shrimp that are hard to breed or that are expensive, I want them running about like roaches but if something happened I can't afford to lose big bucks, beside RCS are really cool little creatures.
> 
> If the fish are $2.50 each and RCS a $1.50 each it will stll be $75 to a $100 in live stock, then add plants (some I'll have), the tank and light, and I have an Eheim 2215 I can use, but it will near $325 in the end or more. That's hard to come by at my house!
> 
> I'm having trouble finding the glass (Starphire) in Maryland so I may just do plate glass but the tank would be like the GLA 90-B but just a little shorter.


Why not just go with a standard tank of some sort? It might be a little bit cheaper. I wouldn't trust plate glass in my house. Too many evil cats and now with a baby on the way, I wouldn't trust it around a toddler.

And I can totally see your point on stocking easy shrimp. I don't blame you for not going with the more expensive ones. Lol. And you are right on the RCS. They are fun. I was just staring at mine snapping pics for a good half hour. Lol. They are funny as all get out.

Either way you go on the tank, I will be interested and watching closely. Looking forward to it.roud:

Oh, yeah. What kind of plants are you planning?


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I would like to build one and I'm a very good carpenter so I've done a lot of caulking and even though I hate silicone I'm good with it, so I'd like to have a go. Plate glass is ok, companies like GlassCages.com use all plate or Starphire but niether are tempered and this is such a small tank at 12 gallons.

I had mentioned the plants mosses, fissidens, some riccia stones, etc., but mostly everything small and more will be needed I'm just not sure yet but some cool plants are available at the club auctions, so I won't rush to fill it.

My new spraybar I hope is going in the tank tomorro, the whole are all over the place but thats good because I wanted to spread the flow a bit and not in a single direction, it's a beast and it keeps going way down out of the frame with holes all the way to the bottom.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

That spray bar is awesome. I am impressed with the design and quality. Looks better than most commercial ones.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> I would like to build one and I'm a very good carpenter so I've done a lot of caulking and even though I hate silicone I'm good with it, so I'd like to have a go. Plate glass is ok, companies like GlassCages.com use all plate or Starphire but niether are tempered and this is such a small tank at 12 gallons.
> 
> I had mentioned the plants mosses, fissidens, some riccia stones, etc., but mostly everything small and more will be needed I'm just not sure yet but some cool plants are available at the club auctions, so I won't rush to fill it.


I would definitely go with tempered glass on something like that. Plate just seems too weak in my opinion. Then again, if you don't have little kids or animals running around, you may be ok.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

sewingalot said:


> That spray bar is awesome. I am impressed with the design and quality. Looks better than most commercial ones.


Thanks, I'm trying to get flow from top to bottom, so I can get rid of 2 powerheads.



cableguy69846 said:


> I would definitely go with tempered glass on something like that. Plate just seems too weak in my opinion. Then again, if you don't have little kids or animals running around, you may be ok.


Nah, it's only 10 inches tall, the bottom glass is 3/8" and side 1/4" so it will strong when it's a glued together. If it were big I'd agree but it won't be fragile at all after it's together, in shipping may be a different story but if it's plate I'll be able to find it local.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> Thanks, I'm trying to get flow from top to bottom, so I can get rid of 2 powerheads.
> 
> 
> 
> Nah, it's only 10 inches tall, the bottom glass is 3/8" and side 1/4" so it will strong when it's a glued together. If it were big I'd agree but it won't be fragile at all after it's together, in shipping may be a different story but if it's plate I'll be able to find it local.


Good point. You said you are able to source the glass locally, am I correct. If that is the case, then go for it.:icon_smil


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

nice job on the spray bar!


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I started on my new plumbing today by removing both my light hoods and replacing 2 x 96 bulbs that were out, so I go from a total 322 watts (2.15 wpg) to 514 watts (3.43 wpg), I really had enough but I'm going to blast my plants for an hour and a half each day and see how it goes.

I squeezed the 1" cpvc intake pipe behind my tank and for some reason thought I could get the 3/4" outlet side back there with a couple of 45's and a valve attached. Nope, get out the plastic saw, cut, ding, scatch up all my nice work and if you look just by the lower powerhead you'll see the white pipe shining thru and I'll gaurantee algae never covers that spot, my luck some how. I think it will look better overall with all the Eheim green gone, power heads gone, hopefully.

I guess the rest will be get done tomorro because it's cool and rainy here so I won't be riding the bike up for new fittings and straps.

I cranked up the fill lighting so you could see the holes and my scratch.








The intake is massive but will allow easy water changes from under the tank and will allow about a 60% change without breaking the intake syphon.

Under you can see my cut off stubs.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

Nice job so far man.:thumbsup:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

I think you are right. At the moment, the green eheims are making it look crowded and not so pleasing. Removing those alone will be great. I didn't realize you could do this with black pvc. I am so changing out my greenheims soon as I get fundage.


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

sewingalot said:


> I think you are right. At the moment, the green eheims are making it look crowded and not so pleasing. Removing those alone will be great. I didn't realize you could do this with black pvc. I am so changing out my greenheims soon as I get fundage.


Pretty sure it is just regular PVC sprayed with paint, Krylon Fusion will work great for it.

Craig


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Seriously? That looks even better if it's spray paint. Can afford that.


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

sewingalot said:


> Seriously? That looks even better if it's spray paint. Can afford that.


Regular old cheap white pvc fittings and a can of Krylon Fusion black spray paint. Works great!

Craig


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

sewingalot said:


> Seriously? That looks even better if it's spray paint. Can afford that.




Yep, it's just cpvc which has a thinner wall more like the Eheim tubing to reduce the bulk and Krylon fushion paint which works good but at the same time is a joke, as I don't see any bonding over regular paint, in fact if you could find an old can of flat black before everything went low VOC it mat adhear better.

The exhaust was $45 with $17 or so in left over fittings but I got frugal on the intake with $23 on cpvc and $18 on the big intake screen.

Sara you can also just paint you Eheim parts too, just get a small can of laquer thinner and clean the outside really well, then paint at least 3 coats, then rinse and repeat.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

OOOH! Even better. Less money and diy involved. I am going to try that. Thanks for the tip. I really hate those tubes. If I had realized it was green at the time, I would have brought another brand.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Ok, I got my new plumbing in and I'm beat, but it looks way better in the tank the second 2217 gives me good flow (528 gph) and my circulation pumps will be able to come out and with all the Eheim green out I can focus on other things.

This is the old with the Eheim Green








FTS without Green








C. wendtii v. tropica getting blown about at other end of tank.








New 2217 and you can see my intake manifold with a valve for a garden hose in the background.








Unfortunately the plasic on the canister and this clip almost went down the drain, I need to call Ken's and see if they will replaces it the box with thw filter has been setting in my garage for 2 or 3 weeks.








My new massive intake is already covered with debris and this is why I got one so big.








Here's some Peacock moss that's getting better looking after my 15 day Excel clean up treatment.


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

Nice!


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## plecostomouse (Jun 9, 2011)

cool!
like the wendtii tropica


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

Looks a lot better without all the green lily pipes in the tank. Did you plump that awesome spray bar up the the canisters? If so, how?


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

plecostomouse said:


> cool!
> like the wendtii tropica


Somehow I knew you'd like a Crypt!



cableguy69846 said:


> Looks a lot better without all the green lily pipes in the tank. Did you plump that awesome spray bar up the the canisters? If so, how?


I'll post some shots later this weekend but I'm too beat tonight, I put 2 Eheim 2217's each with it's own Hydor 300w inline heater and one also has a CarbonDoser EXT5000 external CO2 reactor, all plumbed together with quick disconects in between then finally the intake is 1" cpvc with a 6.5" x 1" filter intake wraped with vinyl screen to protect shrimp and the exhaust and spraybar is 3/4" cpvc painted black.

It does work very well but was a pain to install, but it confirms that Amano know the best way to do things in the aqurium or atleast if he prints it, it works. The flow is very strong across the front glass with flow from water surface to substrate and it returns to the intake fast, it was a matter of minutes and the intakes screen was full of debris, but there is 528 gph flowing between the 2 filters, Eheim classics can't be beat in quality and price, in my book!

Club meeting at "That Pet Place" in PA. tomorrow, yaaaaaaawhoooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Auction plants, new fish, a bubble chest that fill with air !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::help:


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

Very nice! More PICS!


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

I may have to invest in an Eheim for my 20 gallon once I get it going. HOB filters just don't deliver enough power. And that tank looks a lot better now.roud:


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

The water is soooooooooooo clear this morning!!!


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## TactusMortus (Jun 28, 2011)

So take some pics!


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Sorry I was out shopping all day and made a pretty good score. We had a club meeting at "That Fish Place That Pet Place" in PA and their prices were really good, the 500 ml bottle of Excel $9.29, not bad. The club offered the maintenance kit from one of their group buys for $20, a member sold me the driftwood for $5, another member gave me a bag of Hygrophila pinnatifida gratis, and the other bags of plants totaled no more than $15 or so, I got Cryptocoryne wendtii 'Green Gecko', Cryptocoryne crispatula var. balansae thanks to Mscichlid spliting her bag with me, Hygrophila corymbosa 'angustifolia', Hygrophila polysperma 'Sunset', and Mayaca fluviatilis. 

Afterward we stopped by Racheals house and met her family and got to see her fish room, not to mention she fed us pizza and beer. After she got me drunk she tricked me into buying some more RCS and Chili Rasboras, it was horrible. 

Oh and I got the dog a bone, gota show some love to fido.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

Nice haul man.


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

Looks like its an early Christmas.  haha 

Those tools looks very nice.


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

After she got you guys drunk did she make you clean the tanks?


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Craigthor said:


> After she got you guys drunk did she make you clean the tanks?


I see you've been to Rachaels before.


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## msjinkzd (May 12, 2007)

bwahahahaha


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

*Auction plants and minor rescape*

This is a shot of the right side, I pulled a dozen Corkscrew Vals and put in the Hygrophila pinnatifida and a very small but dense patch of Mayaca fluviatilis










On the left side what a jungle but in the bottom right corner you can see the C. wendtii green gecko and this was my favorite buy, in the back I ripped out my failing Ludwigia Peruensis and moved the Cryptocoryne crispatula var. balansae in it's place, I added 4 new plants and this is another favorite. Plus I added some Hygrophila polysperma 'Sunset'









I also added 4 or 5 Hygrophila corymbosa 'angustifolia' to the back, left of center to fill in a bit more, but it will need time to straighten and grow. I'm not really crazy about this plant but it will do for now as a filler. I was look for S. sp. porto velho to fill in the foreground and Fissidens but there was none for sale at the auction, maybe next time. 









The plumbing under the tank is nothing special but it will make it easier in the future, I had to prime it by hooking my python to the hose connection on the intake side and I got my first mouth full of fish water ever, surprisingly it was not foul but had a rather clean taste just like tap water but there was a short period of teeth brushing and Listerine. It's less crowded but really still a mess under there but I will get the RO/DI unit (2012 maybe) and install a drain hose to the front lawn flower bed and that will be nice, but it will be a while before it happens.

The flow from the 2 x 2217's is high with all the plants laying over a bit, the circulation pump is off and will be removed and it is not needed, but the upgrade from the 2215's is huge and I couldn't imagine having a 2262 or FX5 it would just be too much for this tank. Most tanks of this size and larger are 6, 7, & 8 feet long so the 2262 or FX5 would then come in handy and that's a long way to blow flow.









This isn't even a good photo but I like how her feeler is twice her body lenth, she's cleaning that so I can remove it! Thanks for looking.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

I love Hygrophila pinnatifida as a mid-ground plant. I also love Cryptocoryne crispatula var. balansae as a background plant in place of Vals. Both are easy to grow and look very lush once they fill in. Looking good roud:


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## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

Great buys, I'm certain Rachael twisted your arm real hard to get you to buy the shrimp and Rasboras.

Tank looks great.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Thanks I appreciate the kind words.


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## msjinkzd (May 12, 2007)

too bad none of my guests found my lost ring! Still looking for it in the tanks! lol


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Got any large fish with a recent belly ache?


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

Good lookin tank. If I had a dollar for every mouthful of fish water I got, I could afford a tank like you have. Lol.:hihi: Love the tank man.


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

nice score 150


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

msjinkzd said:


> too bad none of my guests found my lost ring! Still looking for it in the tanks! lol


Rachael I'm sorry to hear you lost a ring and I'm sure you'll come across it soon, it's always the last place you look. 

Is it something you take off before putting your hand in a tank?


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

She found it in a shrimp tank.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

cableguy69846 said:


> Good lookin tank. If I had a dollar for every mouthful of fish water I got, I could afford a tank like you have. Lol.:hihi: Love the tank man.


Thank you very much! I'd only have a dollar but I'd spend it on Listerine, even though it tasted fresh you only think of the poo or slimey filter tubing. 



nonconductive said:


> nice score 150


Thanks, I really love going to club meetings with the plants and stuff so cheap and the hard to find plants are available too, plus meeting all the new people is fun too.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

audioaficionado said:


> She found it in a shrimp tank.


Ah ha, I got shrimp, was it the Cherry tank?? I started feeling guilty right away, I hate when stuff like that happens but atleast it had a happy ending.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> Thank you very much! I'd only have a dollar but I'd spend it on Listerine, even though it tasted fresh you only think of the poo or slimey filter tubing.


All the time and all the tanks I have had, you would think I would be better at not getting it, but, no, it happens almost every time.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I figured something would come along and try to trash my hard work and as I was making too many changes like a new filter with clean bio-media and having a good filter shut down while getting it plumbed (replaced white filter pad) in and trying not to take too long as not to kill off any of the nitrifying bacteria, etc. 

Anyway it seems I may be getting Cladophora algae on top of my Peacock moss, it's only a couple of very fine green threads that are no more than 2 inches long but it's growing in a wide open area in good circulation with high light, the water and nutients are on target for EI dosing if not just under the target and it even tastes good. I tried to pull it off with a pair of tongs and almost pulled the driftwood over so it's attached well.

I'm also noticing a tiny bit of surface scum but again I have good surface movment and the new spraybar even has a hole right at the suface making a little adgitation. 

This is by no means one of those aquarium emegencies but I don't want it to get to that point, I dosed 20 ml of Excel this morning that may help a little but with all the changes being made it could also hurt if it slows the growth of any new nitrifying bacteria. I guess I'll just let everything stand as it is without anymore changes, in fact I'm a big advocate of doing one thing at a time in the aquarium and then monitoring the result, so I broke my own rule and now it's time to pay.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> I figured something would come along and try to trash my hard work and as I was making too many changes like a new filter with clean bio-media and having a good filter shut down while getting it plumbed (replaced white filter pad) in and trying not to take too long as not to kill off any of the nitrifying bacteria, etc.
> 
> Anyway it seems I may be getting Cladophora algae on top of my Peacock moss, it's only a couple of very fine green threads that are no more than 2 inches long but it's growing in a wide open area in good circulation with high light, the water and nutients are on target for EI dosing if not just under the target and it even tastes good. I tried to pull it off with a pair of tongs and almost pulled the driftwood over so it's attached well.
> 
> ...


Sometime sitting back and watching is the hardest part of having fish tanks. I feel your pain, but watching it for a while is probably the best thing to do right now.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

150EH said:


> Thank you very much! I'd only have a dollar but I'd spend it on Listerine, even though it tasted fresh you only think of the poo or slimey filter tubing.


Betcha our mouths are far filthier places than any normal aquarium water.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

audioaficionado said:


> Betcha our mouths are far filthier places than any normal aquarium water.


Lol. That is probably true.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

audioaficionado said:


> Betcha our mouths are far filthier places than any normal aquarium water.





cableguy69846 said:


> Lol. That is probably true.


I don't know about that and it sound familiar like dogs have way cleaner mouths, but after what I watch my dog do his clean up routine I would never let him lick me near my mouth and I feel the same about the fish water. They drink aquarium water and I drink tap water filtered through a Brita filter.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> I don't know about that and it sound familiar like dogs have way cleaner mouths, but after what I watch my dog do his clean up routine I would never let him lick me near my mouth and I feel the same about the fish water. They drink aquarium water and I drink tap water filtered through a Brita filter.


Lol. I am the same way with the cats.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

It's all a matter of what you think is gross. Fresh urine is sterile and has no germs, but I'm sure we'd all prefer drinking green pond water with all kinds of critters swimming in it given a choice between only those two. Aquarium water doesn't bother me if some splashes in my mouth, but when I'm thirsty, I head for the kitchen faucet with my glass.

Anyway back on topic... Tank's lookin' good.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I sent Kens Fish an email about the broken canister Tuesday night and by the next morning they had replied offering to send me a new 2217 canister only, so I am very please with the result. I did buy the filter almost 3 weeks ago and let it sit in my garage the whole time without opening even the box it was shipped in while I was getting all my new plumbing together. From here out it may be wise to atleast open the item and make an inspection, other retailers may not have been so kind after a couple weeks had passed.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

*150 Clutter free*

I took out the drop checker, the last pump, and the air wand and the tank looks so much better to me anyway.










These are my home made Riccia rocks and I stole the idea from the ADA site, now I need to go to Michael's and get some Riccia line.










I'm guessing Flagstone is ok in a planted tank, I see a lot of people use it as a background material, or should I do something to it before putting it in the tank?


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

Tank looks good man.

What is riccia line?


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

It's somthing ADA sells a tiny spool of for $14.99 plus shipping and I bet if you go to a craft store like Michael's you can get the same thing for under a dollar. I went a couple of weeks ago with my wife and got a bag of 25 really long pipe cleaners for $0.49, but the Riccia line is brown and supposed to blend in with wood or stone so you don't see it. Hey the Riccia stones are $10.99 for 10 stones that are 2"x3" so I'm going to be a millionaire cause I've got a ton of flagstone behind my shed.

Thanks for the compliment, it does look better. Next up driftwood and Fissidens, money, money, money, money!!! money!!!!!! some people....


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> It's somthing ADA sells a tiny spool of for $14.99 plus shipping and I bet if you go to a craft store like Michael's you can get the same thing for under a dollar. I went a couple of weeks ago with my wife and got a bag of 25 really long pipe cleaners for $0.49, but the Riccia line is brown and supposed to blend in with wood or stone so you don't see it. Hey the Riccia stones are $10.99 for 10 stones that are 2"x3" so I'm going to be a millionaire cause I've got a ton of flagstone behind my shed.
> 
> Thanks for the compliment, it does look better. Next up driftwood and Fissidens, money, money, money, money!!! money!!!!!! some people....


Why not just use an appropriate colored thread? If you use cotton, it will break down and you won't have to worry about it. The plants will naturally attach to the wood or rock, and it will be all good.:biggrin:

What are you planning on doing with all that rock? Propagating fissidens perhaps? If you are gonna do that, consider me first in line for one of the rocks.roud:


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Well the Riccia won't attach that's why it needs to blend, and it's very buoyant and will float so they use rock and thread is out. But I will start growing some goodies when I get my shrimp tank up, I think I'll the fissidens on wood but it might stick to a rock, yeah I think it will.

But the thin rocks are nice for Riccia, you can remove them to trim, and you need to trim because it's a very high light plant and once the tied area gets shade by excessive growth it will rot and float to the surface.

Ahha, look here and here


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## Kathyy (Feb 22, 2010)

Once a decade or so I invest in a spool of brown/green/gray nylon upholstery thread. I can tie it pretty well and it is very strong stuff. See if you can find something nylon and neutral colored.

Tank is looking very nice!


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Kathyy said:


> Once a decade or so I invest in a spool of brown/green/gray nylon upholstery thread. I can tie it pretty well and it is very strong stuff. See if you can find something nylon and neutral colored.
> 
> Tank is looking very nice!


Thanks Kathy, will do!


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> Well the Riccia won't attach that's why it needs to blend, and it's very buoyant and will float so they use rock and thread is out. But I will start growing some goodies when I get my shrimp tank up, I think I'll the fissidens on wood but it might stick to a rock, yeah I think it will.
> 
> But the thin rocks are nice for Riccia, you can remove them to trim, and you need to trim because it's a very high light plant and once the tied area gets shade by excessive growth it will rot and float to the surface.
> 
> Ahha, look here and here


Still consider me first in line. I will buy the rock and all. :biggrin:

If the rock is porous it should stick.



Kathyy said:


> Once a decade or so I invest in a spool of brown/green/gray nylon upholstery thread. I can tie it pretty well and it is very strong stuff. See if you can find something nylon and neutral colored.
> 
> Tank is looking very nice!


I ended up with blue thread. It was all I had and I was broke.:icon_roll


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

cableguy69846 said:


> Still consider me first in line. I will buy the rock and all. :biggrin:
> 
> If the rock is porous it should stick.


No problem, but it will be a while, I don't even own any Fissidens yet but I definitely want it in both tanks, we are talking about Fissidens right?

I got a little surprise this morning with my Aponogeton crispus putting out a 15" flower stalk, this might go 50" or 8' before it blooms, we'll see.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> No problem, but it will be a while, I don't even own any Fissidens yet but I definitely want it in both tanks, we are talking about Fissidens right?
> 
> I got a little surprise this morning with my Aponogeton crispus putting out a 15" flower stalk, this might go 50" or 8' before it blooms, well see.


Yes on the Fissidens. I have been trying to locate some around me, and am not finding very much at the moment. I am also not looking very hard yet. Lol.

And good one on the flower stalk. Can't wait to see what it does.roud:


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

Congrats on the flower stalk. I remember how oddly wen I discovered my amazons flower stalk.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I just looked back at some old photos and this plant hasn't flower since 1-29-2005, now I feel like Mr. Wilson waiting for this thing to bloom "I must invite the garden club for tea & crumpets", here's the old photo and it's hard to see but it's over 7 feet long and hits the floor as I remember.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

That is one heck of a flower stem.

Lol, and it looks like you are fishing in your tank.:hihi:


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

Where are the pics of that sexy wood?


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

Craigthor said:


> Where are the pics of that sexy wood?


http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1564439-post1442.html


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

jkan0228 said:


> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1564439-post1442.html


I know I was trying to taunt him into getting them up here. :flick:


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

Haha, so was I... I'm just lazy to post the actual pic... :tongue:


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

Pictures, pictures, pictures! :hihi:


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

bow-chica-wow-wow LMAO again, thanks jkan for posting that link for Craig!

It's not mine yet, Plantbrain is the proud owner of the wood as we speak but I'm working on it, I've been looking for a long time and never expected to spend so much but it spoke to me and I had to have it. I can't tell you what it said becuase it used a lot of curse words and the forum would get mad at me, but it was brutal and I promised to fork over the cash.

I'm excited but I'll probaaly just plop it in the tank with some Fissides and a little Peacock moss without and rescape at this point. But right now it's the same old pictures, I don't even have a good one.


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

Nice pic!


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

I hate when tanks, rocks, driftwood, plants, fish, and shrimp start swearing at you till you spend your hard earned cash on them and get yelled at by your other half. It is nonstop with me sometimes. Lol. I am surprised the fiancee has not killed me yet.:hihi: Anyway, I like that shrimp pic man. It is a good one.:thumbsup::icon_cool


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

*Small haul*

I went to Michael's craft store today and got some poly for fine filter pads in my Eheim canisters, I always hear people are saving tons of cash this way so I'll give it a try, a large bag $5. I also picked up some green plastic mesh for moss walls, etc. I just figured green would be better than white and a 10.5" x 13.5" were only $0.59 each, but I got florist wire to tie down Riccia and it was a bust for $2 and made from steel, I checked on the net after I got home. I did have black permanent color copper wire for making jewelry but I put it back thinking the copper might kill my inverts.



















But my Apon flower is smok'n and put on about 20 inches since yesterday at noon, film at eleven.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

Nice score on the mesh man.

In place of the stuff you got, you can just use fishing line.

Cool flower stem.


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## Bradleyv1714 (Jul 25, 2011)

Love the pics 150EH!!! Btw is flourish excel better than seachem comprehensive? I does comprehensive and my plants are doing pretty good so far, I think... I know my 10 gallon is showing signs that the lights and the comprehensive is working magic!


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## TactusMortus (Jun 28, 2011)

Next time you get polyfill look for the quilt batting stuff. It comes rolled up and not just in clumps. It makes it a lot easier to use in the filter.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

Bradleyv1714 said:


> Love the pics 150EH!!! Btw is flourish excel better than seachem comprehensive? I does comprehensive and my plants are doing pretty good so far, I think... I know my 10 gallon is showing signs that the lights and the comprehensive is working magic!


Excel is just a form of carbon for plants. There is not much else in it. If you plan on using it, you will still have to use the Comprehensive. It may be worth it though. When I was using it, I had pretty good growth, but after switching to DIY CO2, I don't really need it now.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

cableguy69846 said:


> Nice score on the mesh man.
> 
> In place of the stuff you got, you can just use fishing line.
> 
> Cool flower stem.


I was trying to get something a little easier to use but I may be stuck with fishing line, Michaels also had a mono philiment line but it was $6 for a couple feet but they had it in brown so it was tempting.



Bradleyv1714 said:


> Love the pics 150EH!!! Btw is flourish excel better than seachem comprehensive? I does comprehensive and my plants are doing pretty good so far, I think... I know my 10 gallon is showing signs that the lights and the comprehensive is working magic!


Thank you, Excel is a carbon subsitute like CO2 like Cable explained but is made from a hospital grade disinfectant that is highly diluted but it can not only give your plants a boost in growth but it can help kill algae and help keep your tank clean, but before you try to dose more than the lable recommends be sure to do some research because it can melt some Crypts and kill all your plants and fish if over done. But don't be afraid to try it because it can work very well also.



TactusMortus said:


> Next time you get polyfill look for the quilt batting stuff. It comes rolled up and not just in clumps. It makes it a lot easier to use in the filter.


Doh, so you can cut it in a little circle just like the Eheim pad, I'll keep an eye out for it ( the left one), thanks. I did see something like that but is was really thin but it maybe that the Eheim pads are just fluffed.



cableguy69846 said:


> Excel is just a form of carbon for plants. There is not much else in it. If you plan on using it, you will still have to use the Comprehensive. It may be worth it though. When I was using it, I had pretty good growth, but after switching to DIY CO2, I don't really need it now.


Cable you should give it a try with your CO2 it will boost growth even more and with smaller tanks a 500 ml bottle only cost $13 and will last a long time, I'll use it for 2 weeks and quit for 2 weeks, but it will melt the slow growers like C. nurii, C beckettii, etc. but I dose 1ml per 10 gallons normally and never do the big first day dose like instructed on the bottle.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> I was trying to get something a little easier to use but I may be stuck with fishing line, Michaels also had a mono philiment line but it was $6 for a couple feet but they had it in brown so it was tempting.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I just used sewing thread to tie all my stuff down. It worked out well. It was light blue, but algae as taken the thread over and turned it green. Fishing line is better for moss walls though. It will work great on the plastic canvas (the green mesh) that you got.

Yeah, I am getting back to using it. I am going to over dose the 2.5 and the 2 gallons as there is some algae in the 2.5 and the 2 is an algae farm right now. I will use it permanently though, just not in the overdose method I am doing now. That stuff is great. When I stopped using it the first time, you could tell cuz my plants pretty much stopped growing. Lol. I didn't really appreciate it till then.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

*Cherry Barbs mating strut!*

This is a horrible photo but these guys were moving so fast, they are all trying to do the mating dance with one female and seem to have 4 territories divided up but they had all their fins so erect I thought there was something wrong with them at first. I've never seen them do this before but they are so agitated they just dart all over the tank, so this was the best I could do for now.


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

You'll get it all the time now. You'll want more females than males so they don't get harassed to death. I've had a nice amount of fry...


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

What kind of fish are they 150EH? They look cool.


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

Cherry barbs.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

jkan0228 said:


> Cherry barbs.


Really? I thought they were something more exotic with how bright they are.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Keep up the good work 150EH.


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## Bradleyv1714 (Jul 25, 2011)

The problem with my tank is that its at my g/f's grandmas house so I cant keep an eye on it at all times so I dose less than the directions on the bottle... Just in case. I have gotten to her grandmas house and they have fed the fish or turned off the lights and im a bit upset at the fact that we had a talk with them about touching the fish tank as we lost multiple fish due to them doing whatever they wanted to the tank.


Ok sorry for the rant!

Btw love the coloring of your cherry barbs and the rummynose tetras!


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

cableguy69846 said:


> Really? I thought they were something more exotic with how bright they are.


Well those are males which is why they're so bright. Especially during mating season.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

jkan0228 said:


> You'll get it all the time now. You'll want more females than males so they don't get harassed to death. I've had a nice amount of fry...


My LFS had them on special 3 for $8 so I picked up 2 males and a female because I couldn't remember which I needed more of, so I went back and did it again, so now I have 4 males and only 2 females, duh. I need to go back and just get 3 more female because they do get crazy.



cableguy69846 said:


> Really? I thought they were something more exotic with how bright they are.


Nope just plain ole Cherry Barbs but they are great community fish and are egg scaterers but I've never seen any fry. The female are less clorful but photo great with flash and are more beautiful than you think.



speedie408 said:


> Keep up the good work 150EH.


Thanks for the kind words speedie, I like the photo you posted in the "lounge" and I'd like to see what you could do with a female Cherry Barb.



Bradleyv1714 said:


> Btw love the coloring of your cherry barbs and the rummynose tetras!


Thanks Bradley I do try to feed them good foods to get the best colors possible and it works well, try some NLS or Kens food from BSmith here at the forum.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Man, I broke my Apon flower stem today, I have a bunch of Riccia floating and the stem was all twisted so I tried to grab it with my tweezers to get it straight, big mistake. :icon_frow so I just cut the whole stem off and will have to wait for another one. They are super delicate and had I used my hands it would have been fine but the tweezers cut it just like scissors.

On a good note I dosed Fe for the first time last night and I might be crazy but everything looks a little greener this afternoon, but I did get my eyes diolated today at the Eye Center so i'll check again tomorro.


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## rockwood (Jun 19, 2010)

Ha, I'm going to go ahead and say that staring at a highly light tank with dilated eyes probably isn't the best thing for you sans sunglasses.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

150EH said:


> Man, I broke my Apon flower stem today, I have a bunch of Riccia floating and the stem was all twisted so I tried to grab it with my tweezers to get it straight, big mistake. :icon_frow so I just cut the whole stem off and will have to wait for another one. They are super delicate and had I used my hands it would have been fine but the tweezers cut it just like scissors.


Way to go Dennis... :biggrin:


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> Man, I broke my Apon flower stem today, I have a bunch of Riccia floating and the stem was all twisted so I tried to grab it with my tweezers to get it straight, big mistake. :icon_frow so I just cut the whole stem off and will have to wait for another one. They are super delicate and had I used my hands it would have been fine but the tweezers cut it just like scissors.
> 
> On a good note I dosed Fe for the first time last night and I might be crazy but everything looks a little greener this afternoon, but I did get my eyes diolated today at the Eye Center so i'll check again tomorro.


NNNOOOOOOO!!!! NOT THE FLOWER!!!1:icon_frow:icon_redf


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## HighTech (Sep 21, 2011)

Ahh yeah. 


Good ol Cherry Barb love making. 
I have got that going on in 2 of my plants tanks right now. 

Survival rate for the babies must be tiny, because i have only found
babies in my filters. Have found none actually in either of the 
aquariums.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

*Gnarley Dude*



audioaficionado said:


> Way to go Dennis... :biggrin:


I told you I felt like Mr. Wilson, jinks :help:



rockwood said:


> Ha, I'm going to go ahead and say that staring at a highly light tank with dilated eyes probably isn't the best thing for you sans sunglasses.


I didn't stare long, just enough to cut the flower stem. :iamwithst



cableguy69846 said:


> NNNOOOOOOO!!!! NOT THE FLOWER!!!1:icon_frow:icon_redf


Yep, one of those days, tomorrow will be better :angel:



HighTech said:


> Survival rate for the babies must be tiny, because i have only found babies in my filters. Have found none actually in either of the aquariums.


If I see any fry it would be a first and I've only seen them drop eggs on youtube and doubt I would even see it with my eyes but it would be cool if it happened. 


On the other hand I ordered a piece of Manzanita from plantbrain and I really like it and I hope the hunt is over because I've been looking all summer and at every attempt the pieces I liked had been sold and so was this one, but then I got a email the next day and he had made a mistake and found the piece I liked so I was very happy to finally get one, I looked and emailed just about everyone that sells it but I'm glad it worked out so I could get this one. The white backgound is 4' x 2' so the wood is going to fill my tank from end to end but my tank isn't a nice rimless tank so it doesn't really need to stick out of the water but I would like to have something like that.










Now I've gotta start saving for my RO/DI unit or the wood will be covered in diatoms before long.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

I need a piece like that. Then I need a tank to put it in. Lol.:hihi: That is awesome dude.roud:


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Awesome manzanita bush!

It grows all over my area, but I need a decent tank to justify something that nice.

I'll have to look into a permit so I can snag some wood when I find good stuff.


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

thats a very nice piece! cant wait to see it in the tank!


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Thanks I like it too, but I'm just going to plop it in the tank and maneuver my plant accordingly so it won't be any big rescape but I think it will help to hide my big black void of a background, I'm going to use a little Fissidesn and Peacock moss on the higher branches.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

*Clean water finally*

Some pics to feed on, some are better than others.

Mayaca fluviatilis after a water change.









My Riccia rock pearling away.









My Oto's, I bought these at the same time and they all were very small, now that one looks like it's going to explode









Staurogyne sp. Porto Velho finally starting to grow and the single dose of Fe I made cleared up the red/brown look of the leaves, everyone said it looked like diatoms but it was gone this morning and back this afternoon so I think it will be gone after a week of dosing Fe. C. wendtii v. tropica to the right.

















Oh I wanted to mention my water is coming around and I think the difference mat be salt cystal instead of salt pellets in the brine tank of the water softener, today in the tank my gH was 1.4 but the kH is high at 8.4 but the CO2 was about 40 to 50 ppm.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

Nice 150EH.roud:


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

Haha dude that is one fat a$$ oto! Maybe its a female?


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

jkan0228 said:


> Haha dude that is one fat a$$ oto! Maybe its a female?


I've gotta couple that fat but no fry ever pop out, I wish they would I only have 5 and could use a few more, but it is a biggy.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

I've got 5 in my 45gal and need more. In your 150gal, you should have over a dozen.


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## Patriot (Dec 22, 2010)

150EH said:


> I've gotta couple that fat but no fry ever pop out, I wish they would I only have 5 and could use a few more, but it is a biggy.


I wish my ottos were that fat, what do you feed them?


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

nice pics 150. porto is my favorite foreground.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

audioaficionado said:


> I've got 5 in my 45gal and need more. In your 150gal, you should have over a dozen.


I would like 5 more but I don't wan't so many I have to feed them, what are you doing up that late or early. Edit: I forgot that's only 1 am there.



Patriot100% said:


> I wish my ottos were that fat, what do you feed them?


Unfortunately mostly or only diatoms, I have never seen them eat and I tried zucinni but they never touched it.



nonconductive said:


> nice pics 150. porto is my favorite foreground.


Thanks, it's my favorite too and I like the way it's such a good hiding place for shrimp but it starts soooo sloooow, that was over a month or 2 of growth but now it's taking off.

Man, all of you were up early posting. Edit: I have no clue what time it was in Tokyo or Deep Space but it was 7 am here.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

150EH said:


> I would like 5 more but I don't wan't so many I have to feed them, what are you doing up that late or early. Edit: I forgot that's only 1 am there.
> 
> Unfortunately mostly or only diatoms, I have never seen them eat and I tried zucinni but they never touched it.


If my tank can keep 5 otos fat and happy with nothing but diatoms and algae, yours could easily support a dozen.

I don't sleep well and often get up in the middle of the night. While I'm up, I might as well check TPT for new posts :biggrin:


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

But will the Otos eat BBA? I could keep a few really fat if so...


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Craigthor said:


> But will the Otos eat BBA? I could keep a few really fat if so...


I don't think they will. They seem to like biofilm style algae/diatoms that's fairly soft. Nerites don't mind the harder stuff and Amanos are good for longer hair algae. Somethings gotta like eating BBA, but I don't know off the top of my head.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Craigthor said:


> But will the Otos eat BBA? I could keep a few really fat if so...


Oto's mostly eat diatoms only but man they are hard workers and they stay fairly invisable without eating flake, etc. with everyone else.

Your SAE's will eat BBA but not enough to make a difference unless it's a really small amount, the trade off with them is the eat at feeding time and as the get older they still graze lightly on algae but are 5 to 6 inches long. I got 5 SAE's and my tank had BBA when it was newly set up but you can see his size compared to the Rummy's that are 1.75" to 2" he's the only one left and is almost 6.5 years old.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Craigthor said:


> But will the Otos eat BBA? I could keep a few really fat if so...





audioaficionado said:


> I don't think they will. They seem to like biofilm style algae/diatoms that's fairly soft. Nerites don't mind the harder stuff and Amanos are good for longer hair algae. Somethings gotta like eating BBA, but I don't know off the top of my head.


I don't think there is anything that's true effective, BBA mostly has to do with water conditions and lack of CO2 and most mature tanks will be a little immune to BBA so you can go to the LFS and buy fish out of the BBA tanks without worry. It does seem to appear first on plastic (filter tubing), driftwood, and rocks so if I see any little fuzzy bushes starting I get out the Excel and start dosing a little on the heavy side but Crypts seem to be one plant that dose not like Excel, not all of them but enough to matter.

My tank had it so bad when it was new I had to remove all the wood and Clorox all of it, remove affected plant leaves, and individual piece of substrate, that's wht I'm so good at using tongs today.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

My 3 SEAs are real pigs when it comes to feeding time. They get right up and in front of every one else and pig out. They've doubled and tripled in size in just a few months. I see 'em working the wood and plants between meals, but not as vigorously as my otos do.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

That's what I like about the Oto, self sufficient, small, and quiet!


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

It seems the cleaner water has helped out a lot but the RO/DI unit is getting ordered this week, it been suggested that I use a submersible heater and circulating pump in my holding tank but I think I'll do a heating mat with a thermostat like you would use with a reptile cage and let the convection of the rising heat be my circulating pump. I got a little less algae in the tank but tomorrow is water change day so it should get better, I can't wait to see what RO water does.








The S. 'porto velho' is finally starting to move and I'm trying to be patient waiting for my new wood, but I know plantbrain has his hands full trying to box up and ship that big piece. Below is my most colorful female and I was suprised how fast she is when you rub her the wrong way.















My Chili Rasboras are growing and getting more color, this little guy/gal is almost 3/4 of an inch, such a pig at feeding time too. Below my Rotala sp. 'colorata' is bright green and looks like it's in 7up, but even with EI, plantex, and Fe daily this little bugger is inches away from 514 watts and it's green, arggggggg. My Riccia farm, I sold 13 pods/clumps and marked my thread "SOLD OUT" but I think in another week I'll be able to do it over again if not I'll have to wait 2 weeks, this stuff is truely a weed and you can put on your light hood and dry it out for a couple of days than throw it back in the water and it grows, it's like the "BLOB" but it's the "WEED".


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

Wow man. It as really filled in. It looks great.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Thanks Cable, it has filled a bit and I think the Fe has made it greener and a bit more on the heathy side.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> Thanks Cable, it has filled a bit and I think the Fe has made it greener and a bit more on the heathy side.


I think you are right.


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

looks great 150.

how many kribs do you have in there?


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Thanks to both of you!

One old Pelvicachromis pulcher (6+ years) and 4 Pelvicachromis sacrimontis added this April (1 male, 3 females) but I'm wanting them out because I like the shrimp better and they pretty much eat what ever fits in their mouth, kinda like me!

You guys a couple of minutes ago I'm typing away and the tank over flows, it took a whole roll of paper towels and I have a fan under there to dry it out so mold doesn't start growing, I had to drain off 10+ gallon to get the center brace out of the water, LOL. The new plumbing is different and very silent during the water change, I used to be able to hear how full it was getting and when it got silent it was almost full and I would sit and watch the last 5 gallons or so, but this is only the 2nd time since 2004 so my average is pretty good!


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> Thanks to both of you!
> 
> One old Pelvicachromis pulcher (6+ years) and 4 Pelvicachromis sacrimontis added this April (1 male, 3 females) but I'm wanting them out because I like the shrimp better and they pretty much eat what ever fits in their mouth, kinda like me!
> 
> You guys a couple of minutes ago I'm typing away and the tank over flows, it took a whole roll of paper towels and I have a fan under there to dry it out so mold doesn't start growing, I had to drain off 10+ gallon to get the center brace out of the water, LOL. The new plumbing is different and very silent during the water change, I used to be able to hear how full it was getting and when it got silent it was almost full and I would sit and watch the last 5 gallons or so, but this is only the 2nd time since 2004 so my average is pretty good!


Don't take the fish out. Take the shrimp out and put them in their own tank.

You got lucky on the overflow. Glad it was not worse.


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

uh oh! lol. atleast there was no significant other home to yell at you.

those sacrimontis look great, any close ups? are they as prolific as pulchers?


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

No, they are just a little harder but I read an article that said if pulchers were a 10 on the east scale these guy are a 7, but I have a small breeding cave in the tank for them and the had one spawn with only 2 fry surviving for a couple of day. They were juveniles is April so they should be getting better on the next try, night is a scary place when your low on the food chain and it seems that's when most fry disappear.

This is an older one of one female. They are not as colorful as the pulcher but that could change with maturity.









Yeah, it seems the female always likes to make a big deal out of tank issues and she feels like it's a kids hobby but I don't know any kids with $1,200 for a light fixture.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I do want a shrimp tank but I would also like to keep them in the big tank too, when the S. 'porto velho' fills in, the new wood is in the tank with some Fissidens on it, the shrimp will have better hiding so I'll call Rachael for a 100 or so then unless they start breeding.

A couple of my Cherrys are really red so a buck a shrimp works for me if a couple more get mature and red.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> I do want a shrimp tank but I would also like to keep them in the big tank too, when the S. 'porto velho' fills in, the new wood is in the tank with some Fissidens on it, the shrimp will have better hiding so I'll call Rachael for a 100 or so then unless they start breeding.
> 
> A couple of my Cherrys are really red so a buck a shrimp works for me if a couple more get mature and red.


That would be good.


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

man you might say theyre not as colorful, but that purple belly is awesome! hopefully they will get it right and you'll have some fry.


hahahahahahahaha my wife said the same thing... "arent you too old for an aquarium?" .


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Is it just an optical illusion or is that really clown puke colored substrate? :icon_mrgr


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Riccia balls GALORE!!! haha 

Tank is coming along nicely man. I don't know how you can deal with such a tall tank though. You've got more patience than most folks, including myself.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

It's 75% of 7 year old Red Flourite and 25% of a brown/biege river pebble, it started as a fish only tank, then the internet became available, and then I came here and decided to make it a planted tank, that when I added the Flourite. I used to come here on Juno dial up my friend, why do you think avatars have to be 100x100.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Well Nick it was what I could afford at the time and it was big, I have always had tanks my whole life but never big, so birds were chirp'n when I first saw it but I am very masterful with tongs in an effeort to keep my pits dry!

I still have plenty and I sold 13 at the SnS last week, so I finally made my first sale and today I got my first positive feed back, I was worried about the shipping.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

I love your Riccia balls. LMK if you need to thin 'em out again


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Will do Steve and it won't be too long, I didn't sell off to many that I would have wait too long for them to double and I like the rotating shade over the plants, plus they make a ton of bubbles.


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## rockwood (Jun 19, 2010)

150EH said:


> Below my Rotala sp. 'colorata' is bright green and looks like it's in 7up, but even with EI, plantex, and Fe daily this little bugger is inches away from 514 watts and it's green, arggggggg.


I feel the same way. When the R. Colorata arrived it was all kinds of red and orange, but since I planted it it's only been green. You can even still see where some of the old plant still has red leaves yet the top that's grown in since I've had it is all green. Not sure what I'm doing wrong here lol.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I got 3 lottle trimming at an auction for buck, one grew to the top of the tank (30") with a couple of new side shoots, so I cut in half and replanted. So now I've got a small patch growing 7 or 8 plants at best but they are solid green, they are beautiful and pearl like crazy but lack any other color. I'll just wait and watch, oh 12 ml of Fe daily plus plantex every other.


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## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

150EH said:


> It seems the cleaner water has helped out a lot but the RO/DI unit is getting ordered this week, it been suggested that I use a submersible heater and circulating pump in my holding tank but I think I'll do a heating mat with a thermostat like you would use with a reptile cage and let the convection of the rising heat be my circulating pump. I got a little less algae in the tank but tomorrow is water change day so it should get better, I can't wait to see what RO water does.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Get your NO3 in the 10ppm to 15ppm range and your PO4 in the 1ppm to 2ppm range to give the reds the best chance to show. Tank and plants look great. Fantastic colors on your livestock.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Thanks I appreciate that, and lower levels on these could be some of the problem the R. 'colorata' I do dose a little shy of the full amount, but today was waterchange day and the tank is looking better so I'll take your advise and go with a full dose this week.

Done, I just added another 20 ml of macros.

I was a little worried after I sold 13 portions of Riccia that my nitrates would be high, but the plants are on fire and burning through the nitrates fast, I tested after the water change and it was 5 ppm of nitrates. I really don't test for anything else and sold my test kit at an auction because it was junk.


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## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

I always lose color when I put root ferts around my red plants. I am considering not using root ferts for that reason. Some of the red plants don't do well with NO3 above 20.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I quit using my Osmocote tabs but I used them on Ludwigia Peruensis and it did make them grow and turn red, but I was trying to use them as a background plant but the bottoms were bare and leggy. Plantbrain has used these in a smarter way and they don't really get roots so he just uses the tops and when they get too big pull them up cut off the bottom and replant the top. But root tabs were keeping mine alive, they got so ugly I ended up trashing them and they were never super red.

2in10 what substrate do you use?


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

That picture of the Chili Rasbora is very good! How do you manage to get such great pictures on such tiny fish?


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Man 150, you tank is looking really good!! I like the whole scape!


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

sewingalot said:


> That picture of the Chili Rasbora is very good! How do you manage to get such great pictures on such tiny fish?


Well it seems to be Sara, but if you zoom in any more it gets fuzzy fast, I do love these little fish and it's hard to tell without a camera but they are quite colorful, thanks for the kind words.



chad320 said:


> Man 150, you tank is looking really good!! I like the whole scape!


Thanks Chad I appreciate that, I've been working hard at spending all my extra cash (which ain't much) on the tank, I'm hoping it will get better too, I have a giant piece of wood coming and that will change it a lot.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Thanks to 2in10 I've finally started dosing the full EI dose for my size tank plus 15ml of Fe everyday except the day of rest right before my water change. I restarted this tank in April of this year and it has taken this long to get enough plants growing good enough to need a full dose and the single factor was 2 x 96 watt light bulbs that took me from 2.15 wpg to 3.43 wpg, with the lower light the plants just aren't hungry enough and ferts with weekly water changes can cause problems if you don't closely monitor the dose and I guess this is nothing new as it's covered in plantbrain's article "chose a method and learn it well", light is the driving factor in plant growth with all other things being needed but secondary, but I always did do things the hard way.

Btw: there is 514 watts of light over my tank with all new bulbs and ballasts, so if deep tank don't need more light why wouldn't 322 watts get the job done?


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Old bulbs?


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

audioaficionado said:


> Old bulbs?


DEAD!!! why do you want them? No all my bulbs are new and all my ballasts are new $$$$$$$$$$ Mostly from AH Supply in NY. Oh, I'm slow your answering the question, nope not the answer Steve.


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## inkslinger (Dec 28, 2003)

Just want to ask, This is a large tank do you get 100% diffusion with the 
AquariumPlants.com EXT5000 Reactor, 
Is there a way to change the pump if it ever fail?
Do you need a fast bubble count to get your DC to be Green?


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

inkslinger said:


> Just want to ask, This is a large tank do you get 100% diffusion with the
> AquariumPlants.com EXT5000 Reactor,
> Is there a way to change the pump if it ever fail?
> Do you need a fast bubble count to get your DC to be Green?


Yes it works real well, it basically has two chambers, one above the sponge and one below, so gas comes into the top chamber and mixes with water while the pump/filter is trying to push water through the unit, so any bubbles would hit the sponge and break up and the pump below is recirculating water from the bottom chamber back into the top chamber, so no gas every escapes the reactor until its dissolved well.

If the pump were to fail you can just unscrew the canister and replace it but cutting a couple of wire ties.

No 2 bps and my tank is good 3 bps and my fish are dead, I want to get their regulator as well because it's so tunable, you control the bubble size and rate. I think they are definitely worth the money (both) and everyone who has asked me and then purchase one likes it. 

This is the only draw back, they have to be powered by a filter/pump anything below 300 gph flows fine, above that you might see your filter slow. Criagthor uses them with Eheim 2262 but I would use a 2217 or smaller, I just don't like the idea of spending $450 on a filter and anything slowing the flow.

Edit: I forgot you had the 2262, you could ask Criag what he thinks but I still don't like the idea of slowing the flow, I would call AP.com and ask if they have a housing with bigger inlets.


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## rockwood (Jun 19, 2010)

Wanted to stop by and tell you.... 

As I was pulling out my Colorata today for the rescape I realized the tops were turning yellowish/orange so I imagine once they get closer to the lights if you can keep them sitting at the top somewhat (like keep them topped) they should start turning. I think its just a maturation thing.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

For a high flow canister you could wye off a bypass loop around the reactor and control the flow through the loop with a valve until you get the maximum possible flow through the reactor without restricting the overall canister flow.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Yeah, I guess that might work, I've never tried anything like that before.


On a a different note: I've had 3 Dwarf Chain Loaches in my tank since 2005 and these 3 stuck together at all times plus the kept the tank snail free for years and were fat as could be. It took me a couple of weeks to realize I hadn't seen them in a while so I started to watch for them at feeding time because the would come out and get quite pushy when it came to algae wafers, but I would only see the nose of one under a rock and they wouldn't come out to eat, so I got my trusty flash light and started looking and I can only find one but I haven't found any dead fish in the tank. This morning the one came out to eat and was very thin and very skittish without the other 2, I'm guess they died under a rock or wood some where and are long gone by now. I didn't know fish could get so attached to one another that it would effect their eating and social behavior, but I feel sorry for this last one.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Well after 3 weeks I saw a second DCL, but the third is MIA or so it seems. 

I notice one of my Cherry's is looking really red and fat but no signs of eggs.









I also make a Riccia Stone from my pieces of flagstone and a blue dollar store scrubby, they were 8 for a buck but 2 were yellow and 2 more red and I only use the green & blue sewn together with some light gage mono-filament line, it should grow out in a week.
















Plus this time I didn't pull the scrubby too tight and there is a good patch of Riccia underneath.


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## fishboy199413 (Jan 20, 2010)

I love your tank. The rummies and kribs look great. Keep up the good work!


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Thanks fishboy I appreciate that!


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## [email protected] (Apr 27, 2011)

Oo, hope we get to see some berried pics Good luck on the Riccia project, I cannot get the stuff to grow to save my life. I have gotten 2 shipments of it and have killed it both times:angryfire There are a few sprigs of it in my failing project where I used screen, but I don't expect it to live and start growing. Don't know what I'm doing wrong:icon_ques


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

That shrimp looks great.:icon_smil

I am going to have to try the loofa and stone method for some of the moss. I hate trying to tie thread around some of the stuff I use to put moss on.:hihi:


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> Oo, hope we get to see some berried pics Good luck on the Riccia project, I cannot get the stuff to grow to save my life. I have gotten 2 shipments of it and have killed it both times:angryfire There are a few sprigs of it in my failing project where I used screen, but I don't expect it to live and start growing. Don't know what I'm doing wrong:icon_ques


Well it likes really high light so just let it float because shrimp love to hide in it, it's like a weed doubling every 10 to 12 days so you might see a come back. :wink:



cableguy69846 said:


> That shrimp looks great.:icon_smil
> 
> I am going to have to try the loofa and stone method for some of the moss. I hate trying to tie thread around some of the stuff I use to put moss on.:hihi:


ha, Loofa is that my scrubby, the green hides fairly easy but I've never tried the blue, but this rock is only 3/8 inches tall so it shouldn't be an issue and I can grab it with my tongs and trim it outside of the tank or else I'm gonna need some 40" SS scissors.

I wish I could grow my mustache like that cherry's feeler, I would have a Fumanchu to my ankles!


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> Well it likes really high light so just let it float because shrimp love to hide in it, it's like a weed doubling every 10 to 12 days so you might see a come back. :wink:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lol The downside to a tall tank.

And that would be some EPIC facial hair. ROFL!


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

It would look good riding the bike, trailing a couple of feet behind you, but the wife would quit riding on the back.


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## Bradleyv1714 (Jul 25, 2011)

Wow! I am definitely going to try that scrubby thing idea...


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> It would look good riding the bike, trailing a couple of feet behind you, but the wife would quit riding on the back.


Lol. I would die laughing if I saw that going down the street.:hihi:


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

150EH said:


> It would look good riding the bike, trailing a couple of feet behind you, but the wife would quit riding on the back.


 
hahahahahahaha...... until it got caught up in your spokes or something and ripped it off your face.


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## [email protected] (Apr 27, 2011)

nonconductive said:


> hahahahahahaha...... until it got caught up in your spokes or something and ripped it off your face.


Hahahaha, the thought of it made me giggle a little, which is no easy task for me first thing in the morning before my first cup of coffee is done.

I looked last night and there were only a few sprigs of it left in my screen sandwich. I just threw my Fissidens in it, but left the few sprigs to grow or die, whichever it was gonna do. Mine did not float though, and was always on the bottom. I think my Pleco sucked it out of the screen. Hopefully he wont do that with my Fissidens.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I want a breading pair or harum of LFABNP so bad but I think I should put them in another tank setup just for them.


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

150EH said:


> I want a breading pair or harum of LFABNP so bad but I think I should put them in another tank setup just for them.


 
i think mr wknd can quench that thirst


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

That's who got me started, I'm starting to like the Halfback Ghost Angels at Angles Plus too. I'm even think about a rack.


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## [email protected] (Apr 27, 2011)

150EH said:


> That's who got me started, I'm starting to like the Halfback Ghost Angels at Angles Plus too. I'm even think about a rack.


Me too, me too!!:hihi: Been talking to cable about doing a winter project and installing a 9-tank rack in my shed. Wife's giving me a little grief about it, but think she is starting to come around:thumbsup: I say go for it. Those would be some nice Angels too.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> That's who got me started, I'm starting to like the Halfback Ghost Angels at Angles Plus too. I'm even think about a rack.





[email protected] said:


> Me too, me too!!:hihi: Been talking to cable about doing a winter project and installing a 9-tank rack in my shed. Wife's giving me a little grief about it, but think she is starting to come around:thumbsup: I say go for it. Those would be some nice Angels too.


Do the racks, you know you want to.:thumbsup::hihi:

Cable - Enabling MTS since 2010.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> Me too, me too!!:hihi: Been talking to cable about doing a winter project and installing a 9-tank rack in my shed. Wife's giving me a little grief about it, but think she is starting to come around:thumbsup: I say go for it. Those would be some nice Angels too.


Maybe you and I could share a house and do what we want with the tanks and we could send for the wives when a conjacle visit is needed. I hope no women read this cause I think it the replies might hurt.



cableguy69846 said:


> Do the racks, you know you want to.:thumbsup::hihi:


I working on it, I need some cash and the SnS is a good deal, so it's in the works.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> Maybe you and I could share a house and do what we want with the tanks and we could send for the wives when a conjacle visit is needed. I hope no woman read this cause I think it the replies might hurt.
> 
> 
> 
> I working on it, I need some cash and the SnS is a good deal, so it's in the works.


Lol.:hihi:


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

My latest FTS, the Apon is finally outta control, and S. 'porto velho' seems to be in trouble so I put 6 Osmocote tabs between the plants and included the C. nurii it needs a boost, I hope it works. I'll give it week and do the same for my Vals, the nana was doing fine and all the sudden nada. I just trimmed my C balansae hard in the back left and it has a lot of short new growth coming in. :icon_smil










The Riccia stone is doing it's thing and growing good, it's really a poor mans PAR meter and after just 3 day it has a 5 O'Clock shadow, reminds me of my teen age years, grow, grow, please. :icon_roll








-









I love the little Mayaca fluviatilis it so easy to grow and has a very delicate look plus it's always pearling, the H. pinnatifida started to put on some new spouts near the crown and just quit so it may need some root tabs too because it's starting to collect dust. :icon_idea


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

Looks good man.roud:


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## [email protected] (Apr 27, 2011)

cableguy69846 said:


> Looks good man.roud:


+1 definitely, and I love the Aponogeton. I have about 20 in my tank, but none like that. I am hoping that one or two of them is a Madagascar Lace, though. Not an expert on them though, and I cannot find pics of them as smaller plants.

Maybe I cannot grow Riccia is because I don't have Co2. Oh well, I liked the look of it in a mat but didn't really want to deal with the mess I have heard it can cause. Glad yours is growing though, I like the light green color of it.


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## green_valley (Sep 14, 2011)

WHOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....
So nice and So green. 

What are those plants on the front row?


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

green_valley said:


> WHOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....
> So nice and So green.
> 
> What are those plants on the front row?



Thank you GreenValley, I'm not sure which plants you are asking about, so from left to right, C. wendtii v. 'tropica', C. 'nurii', S. 'porto velho' (this is the center plant that should be a carpet one day, it's slow), and C. wendtii 'brown', I hope that helped.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

Wow man. Those crypts look amazing.


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## jart (Jan 17, 2003)

Very nice; clean and green. I like your choice of fish.
Have never seen H. pinnatifida for sale up here.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

jart said:


> Very nice; clean and green. I like your choice of fish.
> Have never seen H. pinnatifida for sale up here.


Thank you, I've seen it once in a while but a GWAPA club member gave that to me, apparently he has a ton of it! It's a slow grower in my tank, I was worried that it was going to take over according to some of my reading but it's painfully slow in high light without a nutrient rich soil.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I got a package of fauna from Invertebrates by Msjinkzd today, 6 Otocinclus affinis, 10 Amano shrimp, and a single Nerite snail, they were all healthy and beautiful and all good sized, and the packing of the shipment was so nice I kept the box and contents in case I ever need to ship livestock, thanks Rachael.

Oh, and the prices were great too, that's something I almost never say!

I'll have some photos later.


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## rockwood (Jun 19, 2010)

I want to see some pictures of the ottos  I've been thinking I need to add a 4-5 of these to my cleaning crew....


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Here's a quickie and I know what this fish is thinking "I'm going to love it here, it just so dirty"










Here's a shot of some I already had that may be Otocinclus vitattus but I'm not sure yet.


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## rockwood (Jun 19, 2010)

Ha that one in the center of the second pic is FAT. I've got a pretty dirty tank as well, lots of brown algae that I think they'd be real happy with.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Someone told me it may be a female with eggs, if not she's a real good eater.


It's funny that I put all these new comers in today and all the Oto's and Amano's were out and about without a worry in the world but a second after I dropped in the Nerite it disappeared without a trace.


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

i saw your pics in the face thread and have to say you look pretty similar as to how i imagined (thanks to your hog)


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## green_valley (Sep 14, 2011)

150EH said:


> Thank you GreenValley, I'm not sure which plants you are asking about, so from left to right, C. wendtii v. 'tropica', C. 'nurii', S. 'porto velho' (this is the center plant that should be a carpet one day, it's slow), and C. wendtii 'brown', I hope that helped.


I meant, the one in the front and somewhat in the middle.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

nonconductive said:


> i saw your pics in the face thread and have to say you look pretty similar as to how i imagined (thanks to your hog)


I'm not sure if that's good or bad, but I know what you mean and I looked through the whole thing one day, it's funny to finally see someone you've been talking to for years, the next step would be voices, like Momotaro, I always read his post with a high pitched Kermit the frog voice.



green_valley said:


> I meant, the one in the front and somewhat in the middle.


Staurogyne sp. Porto Velho, is in front slightly to the right f center.


On a seperate note my Aponogeton Flower came back quickly and should bloom within a week! I'm not touching this one.


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## rockwood (Jun 19, 2010)

Are you having any issues with flow on the left side of the tank? I'm considering doing what you've done with the filtration on mine as you suggested. I'm just worried that the flow won't reach the far side of the tank very well. 

I have a terrible problem with garbage/mulm/decaying leaves gathering around the bottom of my plants in the left corner right now. I'm trying to find a solution to it.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

rockwood said:


> Are you having any issues with flow on the left side of the tank? I'm considering doing what you've done with the filtration on mine as you suggested. I'm just worried that the flow won't reach the far side of the tank very well.
> 
> I have a terrible problem with garbage/mulm/decaying leaves gathering around the bottom of my plants in the left corner right now. I'm trying to find a solution to it.


No it works really well but remember my tank is only 4 foot long with 2 x 2217 canisters, so that's 528 gph coming out of the spray bar, with 18 holes the same diameter as Eheim spray bars and the same number as 2 spray bars. But it rebounds good off the other end and back to my intake. If you are using stock spray bars it will be even better because the holes all point in the same direction exactly, I let mine stager back an forth so it would be a wider flow. But even with stock bars you could cut the bar one hole shorter to make the flow quicker, so there are ways to make it work.

I can get dead leave etc. sometimes but you need to pick them out manually and the trick is to get everything growing properly without getting lazy, I'll say man my S. porto velho isn't growing right and it starts losing leaves and a day or 2 later I'll recover from my senior moment and stick a couple or six root tabs under them and like magic problem solved. But for the most part it works very well and much better than what I had, an intake/outlet at each end of the tank.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

My Aponogeton flower bud is back, I was trimming old leaves like crazy trying to trick it and it worked, I'm giving that Oto extra food to keep an eye on it and I asked him to bite me if he sees me coming with tweezers, so far he's doing an excellent job.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> My Aponogeton flower bud is back, I was trimming old leaves like crazy trying to trick it and it worked, I'm giving that Oto extra food to keep an eye on it and I asked him to bite me if he sees me coming with tweezers, so far he's doing an excellent job.


I guess it is only right for us fish keepers to have Watch Fish. Lol. Congrats on the flower.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Yeah I'm a cross between Dennis the menace and Mr. Wilson, because I grow it and then ruin it on my own.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> Yeah I'm a cross between Dennis the menace and Mr. Wilson, because I grow it and then ruin it on my own.


Lol. Mr. Menace?


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## rockwood (Jun 19, 2010)

150EH said:


> No it works really well but remember my tank is only 4 foot long with 2 x 2217 canisters, so that's 528 gph coming out of the spray bar, with 18 holes the same diameter as Eheim spray bars and the same number as 2 spray bars. But it rebounds good off the other end and back to my intake. If you are using stock spray bars it will be even better because the holes all point in the same direction exactly, I let mine stager back an forth so it would be a wider flow. But even with stock bars you could cut the bar one hole shorter to make the flow quicker, so there are ways to make it work.
> 
> I can get dead leave etc. sometimes but you need to pick them out manually and the trick is to get everything growing properly without getting lazy, I'll say man my S. porto velho isn't growing right and it starts losing leaves and a day or 2 later I'll recover from my senior moment and stick a couple or six root tabs under them and like magic problem solved. But for the most part it works very well and much better than what I had, an intake/outlet at each end of the tank.



I think I'm going to try it. It's obvious I'm not getting something going correctly. I have 2x2215 with the 2217 impellers installed so they're pushing like a 2216 maybe? lol. I'm probably just going to stack the two spray bars next to each other in the front and then the intakes in the back behind plants.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I think it works a lot better to have all the flow going in one direction, in my experience anyway. Those 2 filters should be OK in a 75 gallon and make enough flow to keep it clear but you will always have a little plant matter that get caught up on other plants and have to hand remove, but it won't get trapped in the corners like your old configuration, good luck.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Sorry but I like taking photos of nothing, in some floating Riccia are an Amano shrimp and you can barely see the Cherry shrimp buried in the top right.









As you can see my new Zebra Nerite should be happy with all that dirt and algae, don't ya love macros, they show of all the ugly details

















And the Aponogeton bud put on 15 inches of growth in 24 hrs. 

My driftwood also arrived today so I'll clean it up, make any modifications and get ready to soak it after I find some Fissidens for sale.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

Looks good, 150.roud:

Get a hold of chad320 for fissidens. Not sure how much he has, but I got some from him not too long ago.


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

I really like that shot of the Amano! Even though it's pretty much shaded by the Riccia.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

cableguy69846 said:


> Looks good, 150.roud:
> 
> Get a hold of chad320 for fissidens. Not sure how much he has, but I got some from him not too long ago.


Thanks I will do!!!! 



jkan0228 said:


> I really like that shot of the Amano! Even though it's pretty much shaded by the Riccia.


Thanks and I really had to work that photo it was just in silhouette.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Dang, everyones threads go so fast its hard to keep up! So what kind of aponogeton is that? It looks like longiplumulosis? I like the super fat Ottos too. I have one like that and thought she was preggers too but I never did see any fry? I am going to go back through this thread and see what ive missed when I get some time so expect 20 dumb questions :hihi:


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

chad320 said:


> Dang, everyones threads go so fast its hard to keep up! So what kind of aponogeton is that? It looks like longiplumulosis? I like the super fat Ottos too. I have one like that and thought she was preggers too but I never did see any fry? I am going to go back through this thread and see what ive missed when I get some time so expect 20 dumb questions :hihi:


It's supposed to be a 'crispus' I got it from AP.com 7 years ago and that's what they labeled it, they are so easy to keep I'm trying to get the 'crispus red' from a club member but I don't think we can get them in the US yet but these guys no people overseas and go to the Netherlands to collect Crypts, while go to 7/11 for a Twinkie.

Yeah some one told me they think the females carry the eggs, but I don't know what makes her release them, I got them at the same time and she is really twice the size of the males.

It's a pretty boring story about a poor guy with old tank syndrome and all the stupid mistakes made to get it to this point, but it's finally coming around. So now it's time for some new tanks, my name is Tim and I am a tankaholic! I've been clean for 4 day and then I placed an order at Amazon!


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> It's supposed to be a 'crispus' I got it from AP.com 7 years ago and that's what they labeled it, they are so easy to keep I'm trying to get the 'crispus red' from a club member but I don't think we can get them in the US yet but these guys no people overseas and go to the Netherlands to collect Crypts, while go to 7/11 for a Twinkie.
> 
> Yeah some one told me they think the females carry the eggs, but I don't know what makes her release them, I got them at the same time and she is really twice the size of the males.
> 
> It's a pretty boring story about a poor guy with old tank syndrome and all the stupid mistakes made to get it to this point, but it's finally coming around. So now it's time for some new tanks, my name is Tim and I am a tankaholic! I've been clean for 4 day and then I placed an order at Amazon!


I would love to go collect plants in their natural habitat, or at least see them. That would be the coolest thing ever.

Love the last sentence of this post too. Lol.roud:


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

That would be sweet just to go over there, having the time to do that would be awsome too.

Man a single Rummy was belly up this morning, one of the new fish from last night, that really bugs me because I never loose fish on tank entry, oh well. 'taps playing softly off in the distance, a tear.......snif.......whimper, whimper......


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

150EH said:


> That would be sweet just to go over there, having the time to do that would be awsome too.
> 
> Man a single Rummy was belly up this morning, one of the new fish from last night, that really bugs me because I never loose fish on tank entry, oh well. 'taps playing softly off in the distance, a tear.......snif.......whimper, whimper......


That sucks... Sorry to hear about that.... Hopefully the others will be ok...


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> That would be sweet just to go over there, having the time to do that would be awsome too.
> 
> Man a single Rummy was belly up this morning, one of the new fish from last night, that really bugs me because I never loose fish on tank entry, oh well. 'taps playing softly off in the distance, a tear.......snif.......whimper, whimper......


Sorry to hear about the fish man. Hopefully the rest are ok though.


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

150EH said:


>


What a nice plant that _Aponogeton_ is. It is great to have a big tank like this one where you can really showcase a big cool plant like that one.


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## [email protected] (Apr 27, 2011)

jkan0228 said:


> That sucks... Sorry to hear about that.... Hopefully the others will be ok...





cableguy69846 said:


> Sorry to hear about the fish man. Hopefully the rest are ok though.


+1 for me too.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

jkan0228 said:


> That sucks... Sorry to hear about that.... Hopefully the others will be ok...





cableguy69846 said:


> Sorry to hear about the fish man. Hopefully the rest are ok though.





hydrophyte said:


> What a nice plant that _Aponogeton_ is. It is great to have a big tank like this one where you can really showcase a big cool plant like that one.





[email protected] said:


> +1 for me too.


Yeah, it no biggy I just hate yo take ownership and bang your dead, but I almost never lose a fish.

Yeah Aponogetons are so big, maybe a tank with 36 or 40 inches in height would allow the to remain under water completely and they would have to look so cool in a river with all the lavender flowers just floating on the surface. The Crinium get really big too but is so fine leaved it gets lost in the photo. I guess I'll have to weave these plants into the new driftwood, I really don't want to do a full re-scape right now.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Thanks for mentionimg the crinum. I was staring hard at it wondering what it was :hihi: I guessed C. balansae.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I have only had a pet snail in the tank for a week now and I find it kinda fascinating but extremely ugly at the same time, I can only say it has had a positive effect because I've been studying to see what all the parts are not that they are all that complicated but then again I wouldn't try to build one from scratch. The photo is a little ugly too, grainy, etc.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Tim,

First off, just wanna say your tank is lookin GREAT. Keep it up! 

I hope this won't offend you or anyone else but I just thought I'd play around with your latest FTS to see if I could try to replicate how I think it looks in real life, using a little bit of PS magic. I'm just thinking out loud, but I think your white balance may be just a tad off making your tank seem too yellow in your pictures. I went and changed some settings and got this: How close am I? Let me know if you want me to take this down.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Nice work Nick!!! Tim, lets beat him up for being too cool and good at what he does :hihi:


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

No it looks great like that Nick, I wish it did look that nice, my initial reaction is the left and right edges no longer look like thick green glass and you have taken out a lot of the yellow. I miss my PS CS3 and I was used to using levels to remove color casts, etc. and I don't spend much time in LR3 but I guess I need too learn to use it better.

I wish it look that subtle but I find it hard to control the highlights with my tank lighting, I think I had already adjusted the recovery slider to about 70%


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## green_valley (Sep 14, 2011)

Only 1 snail???????? hmmmmmmmm.......what kind is it?


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## jart (Jan 17, 2003)

Latest photos look awesome.
Were you planning on moving the Crinum? IME, they don't tend to like to be moved once well established.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

green_valley said:


> Only 1 snail???????? hmmmmmmmm.......what kind is it?


It's a Zebra Nerite, Yeah I've never been a big snail fan but I thought I'd try one, so far no problems.



jart said:


> Latest photos look awesome.
> Were you planning on moving the Crinum? IME, they don't tend to like to be moved once well established.


Nope it's going to stay right there. Soon all the rock & driftwood will be removed to make way for some new and improved driftwood, I don't like moving that stuff once it's in the tank, all the Loaches work so hard making tunnels and hiding places, but I'm sure the substrate could use a good vacuum under there.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

150EH said:


> It's a Zebra Nerite, Yeah I've never been a big snail fan but I thought I'd try one, so far no problem...


So you haven't had to tell him, " Bad snail...don't jump out of the Tank...Bad,Bad,Bad!!!"


:biggrin::biggrin:


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

No, do they do that, if they do he'll get punished, I'll make it sit in the corner of the living room!!! I just did want one that makes baby snails, so far it's foot looks nice and green so it's doing something to the algae.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

[email protected] another new Rummy belly up this morning, I don't know why unless they are WC and don't like the water. I'm gonna call the LFS this morning and find out.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

DogFish said:


> So you haven't had to tell him, " Bad snail...don't jump out of the Tank...Bad,Bad,Bad!!!"
> 
> 
> :biggrin::biggrin:


Glad I am not the only one who talks to my fish and invertebrates.:hihi:



150EH said:


> No, do they do that, if they do he'll get punished, I'll make it sit in the corner of the living room!!! I just did want one that makes baby snails, so far it's foot looks nice and green so it's doing something to the algae.


Lol.



150EH said:


> [email protected] another new Rummy belly up this morning, I don't know why unless they are WC and don't like the water. I'm gonna call the LFS this morning and find out.


Sorry to hear that man. Maybe they are just not acclimating.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Rummys and ottos have always given me a hard time. Sometimes they all live and sometimes I lose them one by one. I wonder if its an internal parasite type of thing?


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Sorry about the Rummies! On the plus side your tank is looking fantastic. By the way, that is an ugly snail, you are right.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

cableguy69846 said:


> Sorry to hear that man. Maybe they are just not acclimating.





chad320 said:


> Rummys and ottos have always given me a hard time. Sometimes they all live and sometimes I lose them one by one. I wonder if its an internal parasite type of thing?





sewingalot said:


> Sorry about the Rummies! On the plus side your tank is looking fantastic. By the way, that is an ugly snail, you are right.


Thanks everybody, I'm feeding everyone some Brine Shrimp tonight on top of the 4 different varieties they ate this morning, I watched the new Rummy's as they are so easy to spot with almost no color and they are very timid and approach the food then run away but the are getting some small amounts of food. I think it's just stress as they so on edge and at the slightest movement or noise they scatter. These photos were taken first thing this morning and they have colored up slightly and I think it's because we were out all day raking leaves and putting up Christmas lights and they got a chance to relax and settle in to the tanks a bit. I see I should have bought a bigger group just for their comfort as they stick together and are on edge despite having 31 brothers/sisters they are juviniles and just not part of the new group yet. It's kinda like you first day of High School where you get thrown in with all the older kids and they just mess with all that first week or two or year.

Normal Rummy









Scared to death about new surroundings









and these 2 will most likely live.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Well Mr/Mrs Scared to Death made it through the night but they are still freaking out the whole School as they dart about everytime I move or enter the room. That is the palest Rummy I have every seen.


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## jart (Jan 17, 2003)

That is one pale RNT!



150EH said:


> Well Mr/Mrs Scared to Death made it through the night but they are still freaking out the whole School as they dart about everytime I move or enter the room.


My fish would often react the same way each and every time I entered the living room. Now that I am married and have to wear clothes around the house, the fish no longer have this issue.


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## Consigliere (Mar 21, 2009)

Let's see a pic of the driftwood.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Here's one that the seller used, it's pouring down rain here so I'm not going out to play. I will take a photo later and put it next to this one, the piece got a little broken during shipping and it could just be my memory but it didn't seem to have as many branches after it arrived here ,so now I'm curious.

Both the boards the piece is sitting on are 2 x 4 feet.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

You bought that wood? That's gonna look badass in your tank bro.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Thanks Speedie, I tried the radio slave today but I'll need a little more practice, I didn't even get close to the high detail macros you get. It was kinda funny, half dead batteries, everything hand held, and in a hurry before I had to leave but I was still fun to play with a new toy. That thing scared me to death as I removed the transmitter from the camera it triggered the flash and I jump half way across the room.


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## mscichlid (Jul 14, 2008)

jart said:


> that is one pale rnt!
> My fish would often react the same way each and every time i entered the living room. Now that i am married and have to wear clothes around the house, the fish no longer have this issue.


lmao!


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

150EH said:


> ...it could just be my memory but it didn't seem to have as many branches after it arrived here ,so now I'm curious


It looks like more branches in the picture because of the nearby shadows on the white boards I'm thinking.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I was getting worried about you and even check your journal a couple of times, I'm glad to see your back.

I see what your saying but there were a lot of branches in the bottom of the box, it's still as big but just thinned a bit.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

The small twiggy branchlets will break off in the water soon enough as they are already weathered and weak. I prefer the twigs to be no smaller than my little finger or a typical woman's ring finger. Especially in a larger tank like yours. The tiny twigs are only OK in nano tanks IMO.

My tank is suckin' right now and I just lost most of my neons after a pet smart fish introduction w/o QT protocol. Live and learn.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I'm sorry to hear about your fish and have never done the QT myself and so far I have been lucky, I have heard others complain that yeah they replace the dead ones they sold you but what about all the tank mates they killed by spreading disease.

I refuse to buy anything there with the exception of dog food, milkbone, and rawhide bones, and I would buy a tank there or I did buy my 150 there for about a quarter of the price wanted by my LFS, so only hard goods in the aquarium section.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Petsmart's dead fish replacement policy is useless to me as it's not worth the gas to drive down there to replace any $1/fish. If I try and store them in a zip lock baggie, they turn to liquid in only a few days even in my fridge so either way it doesn't work out for me. Not to mention my existing fish that I grew into large beauties and got attached to. Petsmart fish don't all die, but the ones I get from the only LFS left generally fare better. I've still got two dozen PS fish from my initial purchase several months ago and the blood fin tetras I just got seem to be hanging in there.

I'm setting up a QT/grow out tank before I get any more livestock. I'm also thinking most of my Amano's got eaten. I still see one every few days, but I don't know how many are left out of the original ten juvies that I invested $31 in.

I'm planning on a larger tank for next year. 75 to 180 gallons depending on the logistics and my finances. I know that I'll outgrow the 75 gallon in a year, but it's better than the hassle of my current tall narrow tank. It gives me double the scaping area and will keep my arm pits dryer LOL.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

That sound like a good plan and I'll keep an eye out for good buys on large tanks, until then start saving your spare change.


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## zenche (Feb 9, 2011)

nice tank dude 

sorry to hear about your rummies...rummies have a hard time acclimating. a while ago, i got 12 from my LFS at like..$4.50 each. they ALL died after a week...thankfully, my LFS gave me a store credit for the full amount. i have 2 in my 56G, they came with a bunch of other tetras I got off craigslist. they've been great...but i'm never buying them again from a LFS.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Thanks, I guess I've been lucky and haven't lost any in a long time and wow I thought $2.98 was high for Rummy's. I saw it was new stock since I had been in previously but I should have asked how long they had been in, I don't like to walk in and buy fish that just came off a 36 hour trip.

We used to have a really good LFS that quarantined all their fish for 30 days, so you didn't have too, but the owner sold and now..........nada :icon_frow


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

*Photo Fun!!!!*

This is the actual size of my Zebra Nerite, I saw it eating for the first time and it looked like a really slow planer in action just cutting off that GSA from the glass.










This is my 6 rear old 6 inch long SAE the biggest creature in my tank and it loves to perch on that course rock.










One of my Chili Rasboras, they have really gotten good color. A Oto eats some dirt.

















These Cherry Barbs have been mating and their colors are bright, she has a slight mustache, please don't stare she's very embarrassed about it.


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## jart (Jan 17, 2003)

I have never seen those rasboras for sale here; very nice. My SAE is quite a handsome lad as well.

I've yet to achieve that much coloration ion a cherry barb. Good job.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

jart said:


> I have never seen those rasboras for sale here; very nice. My SAE is quite a handsome lad as well.
> 
> I've yet to achieve that much coloration ion a cherry barb. Good job.


Thank you, Rachael has the Chili Rasboras they are very small (0.75) and stay at the top like Hatchets so they like the cover of floating plants and the barbs have been crazy with color lately but it was the first time I ever saw her fumanchu.


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## [email protected] (Apr 27, 2011)

The Cherry Bars is awesome, good job on those. The Chili Rasboras are really cool as well. Are you sure that was the actual size of your Nerite? That thing was about 10" big in the pic on my screen:hihi: Should be happy there with all that food (algae) to eat.


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

your female cherry can grow a better stache than me.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I was really surprised to see the Maxillary barbels (Wikipedia) because I have always kept at least a few Cherry barbs and never notice these before, after a little studying they are called Maxillary barbels and they have a taste bud like feature that allows the fish to find food in murky or dark waters, so this should give some clue to their natural habitat.


More Wikipedia;

The Cherry Barb's natural environment is one of heavily shaded, shallow, and calm waters. Their native substrate is one of silt with leaf cover. They are from a tropical climate and prefer water with a pH of 6.0 - 8.0, a water hardness (dH) of 5.0 - 19.0. and a temperature range of 73 - 81 °F 

That was my Cliff Claven moment for today.


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

Please tell me you zoomed in for the zebra nerite pic, or you're saying you have an 8" diameter nerite!!


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

The Nirite is actually kind of small at 1/2 inch or so but with all that algae to eat it should grow rapidly and so far I can see a difference so I should have gotten more and will do so with my next order from Rachael.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

*New Plants Today, thank you Chad!*

I got some new plants today and they were in spectacular health, photos to follow but it was water change day so things were a little bubbly. And goodie bags :bounce:

This is from yesterday and it's all about her color, she is hard to photo and moves quickly from one spot to another and can some how vanish even with that color.

















This is the Blepharostoma trichophyllum or Mini Rose Moss










To the left Fissidens fontanus sp. mini and in the center Notocyphus lutescens. 










Some Vesicularia dubyana or Singapore Moss.










And finally the big green tank, you can see the driftwood to the top left, it has all the mosses tied on it and is wedged in because it was not ready to sink, I also got some Najas sp. 'Roraima' from Chad but photos will have wait as it is almost impossible to see anything with all the bubbles.










Soon the dying Riccia rock and all the others will be removed for the new driftwood.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

New plants are good. I just got 3 boxes today myself.roud:


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

you guys are addicts....


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

nonconductive said:


> you guys are addicts....


Lol. I do not deny that.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Don't bogart that plant my friend, pass it over to me....I guess we could be.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> Don't bogart that plant my friend, pass it over to me....I guess we could be.


Which plants am I bogarting? Wait, was that even meant for me? Lol. I am so confused.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Back away from the keyboard.

No, I was just playing with what NonC said.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> Back away from the keyboard.
> 
> No, I was just playing with what NonC said.


Lol. Got ya. I am going back to my Mt. Dew and plants now. Lol.:bounce:


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I messed up the other night and dosed macros on the last dosing night in the weekly schedule, so I doubled up on macros and missed micros all together. My nitrates were 15 ppm or maybe a little higher after my water change so I think I'll skip macro dosing tonight which is the first night of the new week and just start tomorrow with micros, I hope that made some sense.

One more of the new Rummynosed Tetras was belly up just now.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> I messed up the other night and dosed macros on the last dosing night in the weekly schedule, so I doubled up on macros and missed micros all together. My nitrates were 15 ppm or maybe a little higher after my water change so I think I'll skip macro dosing tonight which is the first night of the new week and just start tomorrow with micros, I hope that made some sense.
> 
> One more of the new Rummynosed Tetras was belly up just now.


Tetras seem to do that. I lost two of my cardinals in the first 3 days I got them.

And the fert schedule made sense to me.roud:


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Yeah they do but I got those on the 18th, had one die for the next 2 mornings and now 12 days later, it's a little weird.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> Yeah they do but I got those on the 18th, had one die for the next 2 mornings and now 12 days later, it's a little weird.


That is kinda weird. Maybe it ate something it should not have? Or was picked on or something?


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## The Gipper (Sep 9, 2003)

150EH said:


> Don't bogart that plant my friend, pass it over to me....I guess we could be.


 
Feats don't fail me now...


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

That rose moss stuff is nice man. You'll like it! It grows rather slow though so be patient with it. Tank is lookin good as usual bro.


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

The PFR shot is awesome! That is a really really red shrimp...


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I saw the Shrimp sitting there and it looked "on fire" when I developed the raw file I retarded the saturation -5 and it still looks fake.

I still need more Fissidens mini for my large driftwood, once it's in there I don't want to pull it out again, ya know. I do like the Mini Rose Moss in person and some how photos don't do it justice.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

The Gipper said:


> Feats don't fail me now...


When that album came out I bought a $55 copy of a master recording, it really sounded great and "live" is the only way to listen to Little Feat. So it's 30 years later and I want the CD to make mp3's to carry on the bike (it's nice not changing a disk for 135 songs) you know that song has been removed from every CD I could find, talk about censorship.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Well my poor Nerite is gone, I didn't think about Dwarf Chain Loaches going after such a big snail but I noticed the Nerite upside down and did a shout out to my Invert Guru but with in 24 hours and by the time we figured it out the snail had been picked clean. I never saw them harass the snail but they are mostly nocturnal.


_a moment of silence please_
_Delivered November 15th 2011 - Murdered December 3rd 2011​_R.I.P​_Scrapey​_


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Awww. poor scrapey. I just wanted to let you know you got the mini prose and the notocyphus names crossed in your picture labeling  I hope they do good for you. Nick was right, they grow slow but one they settle in and get comfortable they look great! If you still want some Fiss, let me know, I might be able to bubble mailer it to you.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Thanks I only new him/her briefly but we bonded.

Are you sure, The mini rose is in the top photo and it has the fat rounded leaves and the notocyphus is in the second shot in the center with baby fine leaves that are kind of straight, I'll admit my photos stink so between the blur & bubbles, check it again.

Thanks and I'll let you know but I have a club meeting tomorrow so I have no idea what I'll come home with, also I got sckooled by someone on trimming mosses to conform and attach to the wood so I should be able to trim, collect, & glue during water changes for added moss coverage because it will mostly be higher up on the wood.

It would suck to shoot some Crazy Glue gel in there and stick a couple of fish together, actually I could sell them in the SnS as 'Rare' Siamese Twin Fish and get top dollar.

Nice new avatar.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

What can I say, I like ponies.

Yep, theyre backwards.

The glue method is super easy but it will ruin your driftwood if you decide to put something else or nothing there. I perfer the tie method but all of my wood is remvable making it much easier.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Who's the cutie, yours?

Ok, what is in this photo???










The stuff I tied with wasn't very visible but it's almost gone, what do you use?


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

No, thats the zoos. The other one is my daughter.

That looks like notocyphus to me. I am silly, I took a piece of moss to my local Walmart and matched it to cotton thread.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Are you messing with me, that's listed as the mini rose all over the internet, that's it I'm out, go'n nitey nite.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Yes, the 3 are very close in looks but not really growth.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Well I picked up a bag of Fissidens mini (2 golf balls), Fissidens (2 golf balls), 3 Crypt affinis, and 3 Rotala macrandra today at a club auctions for $18 after selling some clippings and 3 extra dosing syringes I had, so not too bad. I also won a door prize with a nice black tee shirt from some Aquatic company, 6 different fish food and a filter pad, it's all stuff that get donated and 3 of the fish food were Pure Aquatics and looked nice, the other 3 a trash, and the tee was small so I gave it too my wife.

I also picked up my 2.5 and man I cleaned a fist full of silicone off of it and cleaned it up good and it turned out real nice, it's amazing what you can do with a sharp Exacto knife and a single edged razor blade, I also cleaned the nano filter which was sold as 'in the box' but it was in the box half way filled with slime and goo, but it's sparkling now, I'm going post so picks in the Nano section.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Here's my new Rotala macrandra which I really like and my tank desperately needs some color and the C. affinis is just in front of it and I like the small size and hope it stays that way, these had no roots at all so I planted them deep and will pull them up slightly over the next couple weeks.










Here' my moss log, it's 24 inches long so there's quite a bit of Fissidens mini, and I might get the new wood in this week. I also have a smaller one with Fissidens on the other side of the tank.


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## Daximus (Oct 19, 2011)

Moss is looking good! I wish I could grow moss, I think I'm probably the only fella to kill a *bunch* of Java Moss. :icon_conf


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Sometimes the easy plants can be hard to grow, when my tanks was first started and low tech I could grow Wisteria, Cabomba, Anacaris, etc. all these supposed to be easy plants but after I went high tech they just frazzled, I tried throwing ferts at them etc. but to know avail, now I'm stuck in the middle with a Flourite mix of substrate I can't grow needy plants either. One day I will get up the nerve and money needed to trash this substrate and start over.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

That Rotala Macrandra 'Japan red' is an awesome plant! I hope it does good for you! C. affinis usually grows good too. Mine throw a ton of runners. Or "threw" :hihi: They all melted with the new AS and havent fully came back yet  It sounds like you got quite a bit for your buck at the meeting. Along with a door/booby prize :hihi:


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

the first time i heard a yo yo loach suck a snail out of its shell i thought my aquarium cracked. since then ive never underestimated loaches.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

chad320 said:


> That Rotala Macrandra 'Japan red' is an awesome plant! I hope it does good for you! C. affinis usually grows good too. Mine throw a ton of runners. Or "threw" :hihi: They all melted with the new AS and havent fully came back yet  It sounds like you got quite a bit for your buck at the meeting. Along with a door/booby prize :hihi:


When I won the bit on the R. macrandra, some one said I paid a lot of money for that and it was from AFA, but when I got home the bag didn't have her name on it but on our clubs plant database it said she had 'Japan red' do you think that's what I have? It really looks nice and nobody bid so I got 5 stems for $2.

Crypts love my tank so if the C. affinis does well the S. sp 'porto velho' is going in the trash as we do not get along.

Yeah it was pretty good bet a lot of folks had brought Fissidens of one type or another and it sold higher than normal, but I needed a lot so I had to keep that hand up like Mr. Got Rocks.



nonconductive said:


> the first time i heard a yo yo loach suck a snail out of its shell i thought my aquarium cracked. since then Ive never underestimated Loaches.


Yeah I couldn't believe it, They were always good at keeping the tank clean but this snail is so big, I don't have any idea how they swallowed it unless they all got together and gave it the old death roll.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Your plant looks just like my 'Japan Red'. I just got some from Aaron T and hes pretty darn good with IDs.


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## [email protected] (Apr 27, 2011)

Daximus said:


> Moss is looking good! I wish I could grow moss, I think I'm probably the only fella to kill a *bunch* of Java Moss. :icon_conf


Oh no, I have a big brown ball in the back of my tank that used to be green Java. I can't grow the stuff to save my life. I have weeping and singapore growing, but Java? no way


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Huh, that's so wierd because I always associate Java with "anybody can grow" I'm almost sure that's a translation somewhere? But to be honest I've never tried any Java ferns or moss, I do like the ferns and I hear the moss is a fry favorite.

Thanks Chad I wasn't sure the bag said nothing but the basics.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> Huh, that's so wierd because I always associate Java with "anybody can grow" I'm almost sure that's a translation somewhere? But to be honest I've never tried any Java ferns or moss, I do like the ferns and I hear the moss is a fry favorite.
> 
> Thanks Chad I wasn't sure the bag said nothing but the basics.


Put the Java Moss in a jar of water in front of a window and forget about it. You will have a ton in no time.:thumbsup:


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I've never kept any Java, so.....

Hey, thanks for the bump in the SnS, now with these new edit rules when you makes an offer to take it all to save a buck you can't go back and edit to say, one sold and make a new offer on the remainder, I do not like this edit thing and would like to know who screwed it up for all of us.


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

whats wrong with your porto velho?


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> I've never kept any Java, so.....
> 
> Hey, thanks for the bump in the SnS, now with these new edit rules when you makes an offer to take it all to save a buck you can't go back and edit to say, one sold and make a new offer on the remainder, I do not like this edit thing and would like to know who screwed it up for all of us.


No problem. Glad to help. You can go back and edit your first post. I have been doing that to mine, sorta. When I remember anyway. I just put how much of something I have left next to it in red. It is working well so for.

Edit: Just read the thread on editing a sales thread. My bad man. Didn't know they had changed it. (Shows how much I pay attention. :hihi: )


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## rockwood (Jun 19, 2010)

The people that screwed it up for us are the ones who were creating one thread and then editing the first post/title to sell different stuff. They were doing this to get around the "1 post per month" rule. So now we can't edit our first posts because people were trying to be cheap. 

I saw it happening and knew something like this would occur.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Is this true for all threads or just the SnS area?


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

It's just the SnS but it's a real pain but as soon as I sold $100 worth of Riccia I paid the $10 bucks to be a member, it is something I would have paid anyway without sales but times have been tough. It was the first lesson I ever learned "don't bite the hand that feeds you", but I have use one of my 3 threads per month for 4 golf balls of moss and I would have to sell 2 more items to need an upgrade so it's such a good deal I can't beleive someone needed more and couldn't spare $10.

BTW Steve it's good to see you again, as Cable says "drop by anytime"


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

How do their eyes stay in their heads or for that matter how do they stay together at all, it looks like there are parts missing.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Tim, I hear ya on times being tight. I went bronze to both support TPT and go from 2MB -> 25MB upload space on the server. 3 SnS ads/mo is nice too. I'm thinkin' of going gold next renewal.

I so wanted to get in on your Riccia fluitans regular - Sale, but had to direct any spare change to F&S to get a Jager heater and a Koralia Nano 425 to keep my fish alive/happy. They aren't liking the 68 degree temps much. Plants will like the Koralia.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I still have it any time you like and you will get TPT friend price too, plus any trimming that are ready at that time.

My new Nano is staying a 72 -73 with no heater but the cold just arrived here today with the rain, but it was 60 degrees this morning at 6 am and I didn't even need a jacket, but I see the rest of the country is freezing and in just a few short hours we are too.

It's always hard to get good flow and distribution in these short and tall tanks, my new spray bars is working good in that department and getting good CO2 down low.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> I still have it any time you like and you will get TPT friend price too, plus any trimming that are ready at that time.
> 
> My new Nano is staying a 72 -73 with no heater but the cold just arrived here today with the rain, but it was 60 degrees this morning at 6 am and I didn't even need a jacket, but I see the rest of the country is freezing and in just a few short hours we are too.
> 
> It's always hard to get good flow and distribution in these short and tall tanks, my new spray bars is working good in that department and getting good CO2 down low.


I envy you. It is 35 and snowing on and off here.:frown::thumbsdow


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Cable there's nothing to envy because with this rain came the same cold you have, so tomorrow is going to be nasty.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> Cable there's nothing to envy because with this rain came the same cold you have, so tomorrow is going to be nasty.


At least you had some nice weather. It has been nasty here for the past 3 days. Not sure what to do about my moss jars now that there is NO SUN!!!


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

nonconductive said:


> whats wrong with your porto velho?


Sorry I missed answering this one, to be honest it is just coming around, I do have some GSA on old leaves but I'm going to up my phosphates to help that and the Osmocote tabs are really helping this plant come around. Up til now it had done poorly and had lost all the leaves several times and has a ton of roots above the substrate but I was just think of giving it a couple more days and I want to do some selective pruning and get some of the roots in the substrate, but it's the last chance for it to do good or it's going to Hefty Heaven.


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## [email protected] (Apr 27, 2011)

150EH said:


> Huh, that's so wierd because I always associate Java with "anybody can grow" I'm almost sure that's a translation somewhere? But to be honest I've never tried any Java ferns or moss, I do like the ferns and I hear the moss is a fry favorite.


 It's true, cannot grow moss My buddies got some Java fern and I'm thinking of taking some off his hands. The stuff I put over my "tunnel" is dying, and now I need a replacement.

Cable, I have had mine in jars, even through the summer with LOTS of light coming in the window. I even used a cfl for when there was no light coming in the window and the stuff still died on me. I put it in some loofa material and dropped into my tank and am finally seeing some green spots here and there, so maybe it'll grow now. I did end up turning my heater down. I now keep it at 79, so maybe that was enough to make it grow. 79 is a far cry from the 82-83 I was keeping it at.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> It's true, cannot grow moss My buddies got some Java fern and I'm thinking of taking some off his hands. The stuff I put over my "tunnel" is dying, and now I need a replacement.
> 
> Cable, I have had mine in jars, even through the summer with LOTS of light coming in the window. I even used a cfl for when there was no light coming in the window and the stuff still died on me. I put it in some loofa material and dropped into my tank and am finally seeing some green spots here and there, so maybe it'll grow now. I did end up turning my heater down. I now keep it at 79, so maybe that was enough to make it grow. 79 is a far cry from the 82-83 I was keeping it at.


That is still a bit on the hot side for moss. In my 20 gallon when it was on the floor, it would be 68-69 degrees on average, and my moss was booming. In my 10 gallon where it is 74-76, it grows well too. Not many of my tanks are above 78 now. Just the 2 nanos.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Really, well it should get cooler as the weather gets colder and it's coming now.

I changed my dosing a little today with more phosphates to help with a light amount of GSA and doubled up on my Fe so my Japan Red doesn't become Churchton Green, see what you think.

New Dosing

Macro solution = 400 ml water, 10 tsp KN03, 3-5/16 KH2P04, dose 20 ml per 50 gallons of aquarium water
Micro solution = 500 ml water, 1 tbsp Plantex CSM+B, 1 tsp MgS04, 5 ml Excel, dose 15 ml per 50 gallons of aquarium water
Iron solution = 500 ml water, 2 tbsp 11% Iron Chelate DPTA, dose 10 ml per 50 gallons of aquarium water or more until desired colors are obtained.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Sounds good. There won't be any iron phosphate issues as DPTA will still hold the Fe in solution at the relatively low concentrations in the tank. I think you'd have to mix the concentrates to get any precipitation issues.


cableguy69846 said:


> At least you had some nice weather. It has been nasty here for the past 3 days. Not sure what to do about my moss jars now that there is NO SUN!!!


Cheap desklamp w/CFL ~11 to 13W ea. No more unless you don't mind a filamentous algae infestation. I used a 23W CFL and now my moss ball is embedded in an algae fuzz ball


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I'm hoping it cures all my issues, Steve.

This is for NonC, I just trimmed and replanted so this is the best it has looked so far and without some sort of root tabs it would have been gone, so it wants nutrient rich soil. Oh, the Kribensis likes spitting substrate at me and he's getting a mouthful.










I just thought the gH Booster looks cool so I took a pic.










And my Girl always makes a good photo but it looks like she's already been steamed.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

audioaficionado said:


> Sounds good. There won't be any iron phosphate issues as DPTA will still hold the Fe in solution at the relatively low concentrations in the tank. I think you'd have to mix the concentrates to get any precipitation issues.
> Cheap desklamp w/CFL ~11 to 13W ea. No more unless you don't mind a filamentous algae infestation. I used a 23W CFL and now my moss ball is embedded in an algae fuzz ball


I just moved them so they are getting some light from my 2 gallon hex. It has a 15 watt 6500K spiral CFL in one of those reptile clamp lamps. I am probably just going to get a light for the jars though. As much as I don't want to.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

Nice pics 150.roud:


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Nice shrimp!!! and I really like your Krib. I havent had Kribs in about 10 years, id love to have another pair.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

cableguy69846 said:


> Nice pics 150.roud:


Thanks.



chad320 said:


> Nice shrimp!!! and I really like your Krib. I haven't had Kribs in about 10 years, id love to have another pair.


Red, Red, Red, That Krib is six years old and was born in that tank, but I'm ready for him to go as he can be a little bossy and destructive.


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

150, mine did great with soil and ended up covering almost the whole tank, then it died off for some reason, the same time my runt kicked the bucket.

if you get sick of it and its not a pile of mush, send it to me! i'll trade or $. i have a few stems starting emmersed but i want more haha.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

If I can get the stuff to grow I'll send you some no problem, I need to keep pushing fert in the substrate.


Before was shot on 6-8-11 only 47 days after I started to get the replacement bulbs, etc. and After was a week ago and still needs tons of work.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

WOW! That tank has come a long way. Keep it up man.roud:


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I added 8 new Rummy's today and yes I'm a glutton for punishment as these are from the same batch that died on me, but they were on sale and I get a club discount so $2.39 each tax included. This is something I don't do, acclimate.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Good luck Tim. Its hard to find a good batch of these. Along with neons and cards  Your tank would be awesome with 50 of these!


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> I added 8 new Rummy's today and yes I'm a glutton for punishment as these are from the same batch that died on me, but they were on sale and I get a club discount so $2.39 each tax included. This is something I don't do, acclimate.


I think some rummies are going to be next on my Tetra list. Now I just need to set up another tank.:hihi:


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

That's for the words of encouragement because if I loose a bunch of these I might go postal on the LFS. I went in early today for more Rummy's, I had called about the deaths, I mentioned it again, plus I'm a long time customer and this sales clerk likes to talk plants and has been there 12 years and nothing, not even an extra fish. Then he kept harping on web reviews and he knew exactly how many there were and what they said, I'm going to write a positive review without mention of any negatives what so ever, maybe it's tied to his Christmas bonus or I don't know why he went on about it so much.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> That's for the words of encouragement because if I loose a bunch of these I might go postal on the LFS. I went in early today for more Rummy's, I had called about the deaths, I mentioned it again, plus I'm a long time customer and this sales clerk likes to talk plants and has been there 12 years and nothing, not even an extra fish. Then he kept harping on web reviews and he knew exactly how many there were and what they said, I'm going to write a positive review without mention of any negatives what so ever, maybe it's tied to his Christmas bonus or I don't know why he went on about it so much.


They should have offered something for the lost fish. I went to the LFS I got my otos from the other day, and he offered to replace the 2 that died for no cost. The fact that your LFS didn't do that would make me go elsewhere for my fish.


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

Nice rummynoses! How many do you have in total now?


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

cableguy69846 said:


> They should have offered something for the lost fish. I went to the LFS I got my otos from the other day, and he offered to replace the 2 that died for no cost. The fact that your LFS didn't do that would make me go elsewhere for my fish.


I just sent them an email and didn't mention the fish but reminded them that little things went a long way in reguards to satisfied customers.



jkan0228 said:


> Nice rummynoses! How many do you have in total now?


41 if all these make it and they have much better color already.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I like to go get some every month or two, you can see the hierarchy in who leads the school, size, and color, this is when I wish the tank was 6 or 8 feet long.


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

Haha thats the same with my Harlequins. The leader(s) always have a much more intense color.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> I just sent them an email and didn't mention the fish but reminded them that little things went a long way in reguards to satisfied customers.
> 
> 
> 
> 41 if all these make it and they have much better color already.


That is the one thing most stores seem to ignore these days. Maybe one day they will all get back to that.

That is a lot of rummys. I would love to have a tank with that many cardinals in it.:biggrin:


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## zachary908 (Feb 12, 2011)

For future reference Rummy nose do MUCH better with drip acclimation. I dripped a batch of 25 for two hours with zero losses.


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

But it's bad for them if they're already suffering from ammonia burn.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I've done it both ways but the last batch is really the first time I have lost fish, but I used to float the bag 15 minutes for temp then I start adding 10 ml of tank water every couple minutes until I've added 100 ml or better. But for the last 6 months or so I've been dumping the fish straight into a net and adding them to the tank, I did this after reading an article about Otocinclus that stated the fish are so high strung and want to hide so bad that they basically worried themselves while out in the open or while in the bag at the top of the aquarium for all the other creatures to see. So I've never lost an Oto and thought it might apply to Rummy's but I these are wild caught and I bought them right after they arrived at the store, so it's been a couple weeks and they weren't sell hence the discount so these should do better, let us pray I don't have 8 floater tomorrow.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I'll post a couple of nice photos but then I have to post some ugly ones. I love how long her fellers are and am surprised some fish hasn't chomped them off.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

Nice man. What plant is that fish cleaning?


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

*#@&^[email protected]#@*! Snails*

My tank was snail free for a long time but after buying new plants all summer it's getting infested by the Ramshead snail, the little pest that is only a quarter inch across. I started to notice that snails like to climb to the top of the tank when the lights are out, I'm not sure why but a have a theory or guess that its to get up high and lay eggs because they love to get into my floating pods of Riccia and I don't know how they do it because the pods are always moving in the flow. 

I notice when you remove the Riccia and sit it on a paper towel after 10 minutes or so most of the snails will fall out so I started using a flashlight and plant tweezers to remove snail (are you getting a mental plant geek image) but I was losing the battle and when the Riccia would go back into the tank one or two snails I missed would fall out and sink to the bottom, but it gave me an idea.

So yesterday I started pulling all my floating Riccia pods out and sitting them on paper towels, I also got a clear glass bowl of tank water (but I don't think chlorinated tap would hurt) so I pick out the big one, some fall out, then I put them in the bowl and shake a little using the tweezers, then back in the tank.

It's disgusting tons of tiny little snails that look like grains of sand and using this method I might remove 250 snails, most are tiny and some you need a magnifying glass to see, it's amazing but I feel like I'm winning. Before all these were going back into the tank and I couldn't figure out how I was tonging out a hundred snails a day and it never let up.

My Snail fighting gear, don't look at that 2215 under my desk.









These are just a portion but even the smallest dot is a snail.









See how tiny they are and never rinse the bowl in the tank there are 50 to 100 specs of snail stuck in the bowl and I have to use a paper towel to wipe them out and they get so thick I may need to clean the bowl 2 or 3 times for a single cleaning.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

cableguy69846 said:


> Nice man. What plant is that fish cleaning?


That's a Crinum Calimistratum, the same one Chad had but the monster, this one is big too but not putting out baby bulbs yet.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> That's a Crinum Calimistratum, the same one Chad had but the monster, this one is big too but not putting out baby bulbs yet.


That is a really cool plant man.

And that is a lot of snails. Feel free to send a few my way.roud:


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I don't know why you would want to keep these things.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> I don't know why you would want to keep these things.


They are cool lookin. Lol. And pretty good at cleaning up dead leaves and that. (I think)


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I think they are good at making dead leaves, I noticed my one perfect Riccia now get a brown nasty slime in it and everytime it means a lot of snails, I'm not sure if it's eating slime or breeding slime or both. I guess now I need to study this little quarter inch thing that's mess'n wit me water box.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> I think they are good at making dead leaves, I noticed my one perfect Riccia now get a brown nasty slime in it and everytime it means a lot of snails, I'm not sure if it's eating slime or breeding slime or both. I guess now I need to study this little quarter inch thing that's mess'n wit me water box.


Hhhmmmm, little water box monsters. Might be worth looking at.


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## rockwood (Jun 19, 2010)

Clown Loaches. Get you a few clown loaches and they'll f*** those things up.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Well, I've got 3 Dwarf Chain Loaches that had cleared the tank of MTS but as you can see in the photos they can't eat a grain sand sized snail, well they can if they can find it. Those are all small pieces of Riccia and in the last photo just fragments so the snails are tiny.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

No losses with the new Rummy's this morning and they are all swimming separately from the pack for now.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> No losses with the new Rummy's this morning and they are all swimming separately from the pack for now.


Hope they do well for you this time around.roud:


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Yep, no loses at all and they way it should be, I'm pretty sure I bought that last batch on delivery day which in it's self makes me mad, oh well.

I think I'm going to start soaking the wood tomorrow morning, then tie on the Fissidens Wednesday morning and install the new wood during my water change. That way I'll stir up everything and it will get sucked out, plus I'm going to need to do some vacuuming where those rocks have been setting all this time.

I need to bring it in the house and get some good measurements because the tank does have a center brace which limits the size to 24 by 24 but I don't think this will be a problem, so hopefully the before and after will get even better.

















I haven't trimmed this at all, anything missing was broken off during shipping, the original piece sits on and is backed by 2 x 4 pieces of plywood, you can see it was 2 feet tall by almost 4 feet with what appears to be DW hanging over on the left and the right being 4 inches or so from the edge.

In my photo it is still 2 feet tall bu falls very short of 4 feet in length, my tape is set at 45 inches plus 3 inches for the housing and is now about 36 inches. The branches to the left have saw marks so they were cut to fit in the box as well as the branches just above that with 6 saw cuts altogether and these pieces are not in the broken pieces I have, as you can see a lot of the character is missing.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

That is good on the rummies. Sucks on the DW though. Still a nice piece of DW. Should look awesome in the tank.


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## rockwood (Jun 19, 2010)

150EH said:


> I haven't trimmed this at all, anything missing was broken off during shipping, the original piece sits on and is backed by 2 x 4 pieces of plywood, you can see it was 2 feet tall by almost 4 feet with what appears to be DW hanging over on the left and the right being 4 inches or so from the edge.
> 
> In my photo it is still 2 feet tall bu falls very short of 4 feet in length, my tape is set at 45 inches plus 3 inches for the housing and is now about 36 inches. The branches to the left have saw marks so they were cut to fit in the box as well as the branches just above that with 6 saw cuts altogether and these pieces are not in the broken pieces I have, as you can see a lot of the character is missing.


That's a pretty significant difference. I'd be pretty upset over the fact that it was cut to fit after it had been advertised differently. If I remember correctly, that piece wasn't cheap either. Knowing where you got this, and knowing I was looking at pieces from the same source makes me second guess dropping that kind of cash if it's not going to show up looking like the piece I selected.....


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Just so you guys know, you can splice on additional branches and twigs to make your wood more complex. We all know the source of most of the good wood and he's a reasonable guy who wants people to be happy with their purchases. PM him and he'll take care of these issues. Shipping large branches is very expensive the larger the box and the weight.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

You know it's really so big I'll be lucky to get it in the tank as it is, when I first started down this path it looked like it would sit right in the tank without much plant material getting moved but it's been close to a couple of months and it looks like I might have a pretty big renovation on my hands to get this monster in the tank, I want the Fissidens up front and near the top where I can get to it for trimming, see it good, and keep it clean. My tank is after all a jungle and bits of this and that are often found in the mosses and that's the main reason the shrimp love to hang out in the moss.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Houston we got wood!!! What a pain to do this in an established tank, film a 11:00!


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> Houston we got wood!!! What a pain to do this in an established tank, film a 11:00!


You got the DW in the tank?


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Yeah and I'm just taking a little breather, it was way more work than I thought it would be but at the same time went pretty smooth. I soaked the stump end yesterday and a couple of the upper branches today but it still wants to float but I think by tomorrow in will be good, it was feather light when it arrived and it weighed a good 20 pounds today.

There was moss growing all over/under/beside the wood and rocks and some H. pinnatifida growing on the wood, but I only pulled up a single C. 'green gecko' by accident and 2 C. becketti to fit in the wood, not bad. I've taken a couple photos of the mess but not too many and if I don't pass out I'll post them later, now back to work.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> Yeah and I'm just taking a little breather, it was way more work than I thought it would be but at the same time went pretty smooth. I soaked the stump end yesterday and a couple of the upper branches today but it still wants to float but I think by tomorrow in will be good, it was feather light when it arrived and it weighed a good 20 pounds today.
> 
> There was moss growing all over/under/beside the wood and rocks and some H. pinnatifida growing on the wood, but I only pulled up a single C. 'green gecko' by accident and 2 C. becketti to fit in the wood, not bad. I've taken a couple photos of the mess but not too many and if I don't pass out I'll post them later, now back to work.


Not bad. Any time I try to move DW, I uproot half my tank. Not really sure how either. Hope the rest goes well for you.


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## rockwood (Jun 19, 2010)

150EH said:


> Houston we got wood!!! film a 11:00!


Boy, out of context that's just wrong.













Yeah, I had to.....


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I was trying to get a rise out of you, well not you personally.

I almost fogot the B4










Here's my mess with all the rocks and wood removed. There's tons of dirt flying.










Here's the H. pinnatifida on the Mopani and I just trimmed the piece in the background and it was totally covered with Peacock moss but I didn't want it back in the tank, I really with I had a couple tanks waiting.










Here's the new wood after I just got it in the tank, I knocked down the DW I had propped up in the corner and I had to use a couple of stones to hold it down, I'll wait a couple of days to remove my weights.










Here is the new wood with a tank full of water.


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## plecostomouse (Jun 9, 2011)

asdfghjk that wood is AAAAAWWWWWEEEESSSOOOMMEE.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

That looks BA man.roud: Love that huge piece of DW. Makes the tank look more natural.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Thanks guys, I'm going to remove that piece hanging up to the left, and do some plant removal and moving too, the Riccia & Peacock moss are out and a few more will get removed as well but nothing that will be missed, H. polysperma, etc.

I was amazed at one of the photos because there are 83 fish in there and after the new wood went in you couldn't see one.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> Thanks guys, I'm going to remove that piece hanging up to the left, and do some plant removal and moving too, the Riccia & Peacock moss are out and a few more will get removed as well but nothing that will be missed, H. polysperma, etc.
> 
> I was amazed at one of the photos because there are 83 fish in there and after the new wood went in you couldn't see one.


How come you are going to get rid of the moss and Riccia?


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

cableguy69846 said:


> How come you are going to get rid of the moss and Riccia?


The new wood sticks out of the water in a couple places so the Riccia hangs up on it and I have Fissidens way up high and I can always buy more Riccia later, it was a good seller. The Peacock moss is cool to but messy and I want to try and get the tank a little cleaner and neat. The flow is getting stopped by all this plant material and the wood adds a nice accent so I think a small re-scape is in order, clean house a little, and there's going to be some cuts on the team.

Plants to go:

H. polysperma - grows to fast
Najas sp. 'Roraima' - slow grower and fish are eating it - it just dawned on me this can go in the shrimp tank, small and slow.
Riccia fluitans - too messy but I might leave the Riccia stone on the substrate
Taxiphyllum sp. peacock - too messy and growing every where


A severe trim

C. wendtii brown - remove some growth
C. wendtii v tropica - remove some growth
Bacopa caroliniana - move and trim
Hygrophila corymbosa angustifolia - I might pull all these out and replant some tips

The Mini Rose moss and a few other might get tied on to the new wood next water change. I might move the Crinum to the center of the new DW and let the leaves mingle with the branches.

I need to do some good cleaning, there are tumble weeds of moss roll by.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> The new wood sticks out of the water in a couple places so the Riccia hangs up on it and I have Fissidens way up high and I can always buy more Riccia later, it was a good seller. The Peacock moss is cool to but messy and I want to try and get the tank a little cleaner and neat. The flow is getting stopped by all this plant material and the wood adds a nice accent so I think a small re-scape is in order, clean house a little, and there's going to be some cuts on the team.
> 
> Plants to go:
> 
> ...


I can see doing that with a lot of the plants. I pulled almost all of the H. polysperma out of my tanks. I have a bit in the shrimp tank, and that is it now. And some of the sunset hygro in the 20 gallon.

What are you going to do with the stuff you pull? And are you just going to trim up all the crypts, or uproot them and separate them?


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Most of it will go in the trash I guess, I had some BBA on the C. green gecko I uprooted so I pulled of the two leaves with algae, cleaned it and replanted but thats the main reason I want to thin things out and get some good flow in the back were the plants are just too thick I'm starting to get some algae problems.

The Crypts I will up root and separate and might wait on some items to get new plants at the next club meeting, it helps me keep my spending down and most folks like Crypts and I need some new Crypts and the S. porto velho for my foreground but I'm not sure if I should give up on that or not.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> Most of it will go in the trash I guess, I had some BBA on the C. green gecko I uprooted so I pulled of the two leaves with algae, cleaned it and replanted but thats the main reason I want to thin things out and get some good flow in the back were the plants are just too thick I'm starting to get some algae problems.
> 
> The Crypts I will up root and separate and might wait on some items to get new plants at the next club meeting, it helps me keep my spending down and most folks like Crypts and I need some new Crypts and the S. porto velho for my foreground but I'm not sure if I should give up on that or not.


How is the S. porto velho doing right now? If it is not dead or dying, I say stick with it. And as for your crypts, you could probably sell them on here and make a couple of bucks.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

83 fish? Haha, I know the feeling. I had 72 in mine but only a few at a time were visible. Now that I stripped the wood it seems overcrowded


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

That's because you can see the tank now and there's no where to hide, that's what comming for my tank, it's getting de-jungled. I think I'm at max capacity on fish but to be fair quite a few are cleaners that don't really count, I have 11 Otocinclus that never eat flake/pellets same for the Amano's & Cherry's but their not counted in with the fish.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

chad320 said:


> 83 fish? Haha, I know the feeling. I had 72 in mine but only a few at a time were visible. Now that I stripped the wood it seems overcrowded


Heck, I have that many in my 45 gallon tank.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

That's a lot of fish in a 45, I keep checking your journal but see no updates etc. did you give up on your tank for the holidays?


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

I never give up on my tanks, but there's nothing worthy of pictures until I clean up that ugly black BGA coating on my slow growing plants. I've added a 150W heater and a recirc power head. Still looks like crap, but everything is staying alive and the fish seem happy.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Are you sure it's blue green algae, I wanted to spell it out to make sure we are talking about the same thing.

I got a little of that in my floating Riccia and it smelled so bad then I looked it up and it's not really an algae but a bacteria or something IIRC, but I wonder if it can be treated with something mild.

In my case threw out the bad piece and checked the rest, I think it was from feeding frozen fresh food that got trapped in the floating plant, I've only seen it one other time and the smell was again unforgettable.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

I don't think it's an algae because it isn't affected by light levels. Total shade or in the light it grows just as good. As soon as a new leaf grows out, it starts to get coated in a few weeks. Even the interior leaves at the bottom.


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

thats an awesome piece of wood 150. it really makes your tank look completely different. nice choice!


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Thanks NonC, I've got a bunch of stuff to move around but it does seem to give a sense of scale, even standing right in front of the tank it seems larger because of the wood.

Steve, it's not algae and you use Erythromycin phosphate to kill it from the little I've learn so far, here's a link but I'm not sure how good it is Blue Green Slime Stink.


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## [email protected] (Apr 27, 2011)

VERY nice piece of wood, man. It definitely looks good in there. I understand why it was cut before shipping, but sux that it happened after ordering. Still a really great piece, and makes your tank look bigger, I think.


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## Dempsey (Oct 27, 2009)

Yeah, that peice of wood looks awesome! I just can't seem to find one that I think would look good in my tank.

Plus, then I would have to rescape. To much work. :icon_lol:

After the new year.roud:


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Thanks, I really like it and it will give me tons of work to do, I'll need to make some adjustments and re-scape a little too.

I broke the hose barb (plastic) on my old Dupla regulator Friday morning, I ordered a new one from eBay but have yet to receive a tracking number, the site had a estimated arrival date of the 21st so I should have a nice algae fest by then. I have turned off all but 2 of my lowest powered lights and done some water changes to get the nitrates down a little, plus stopped any dosing because I can see the glass getting clouded after 2 days of no C02.


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## zachary908 (Feb 12, 2011)

Wow, 150EH that new piece of wood makes a huge difference! The tank looks awesome, man. Keep it up!


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Thanks, so far I haven't done much on the re-cape and I'm still waiting for my new hose barb fitting to arrive so I've been without CO2 since last Friday morning and Crypts are melting a putting out new leaves so turning the CO2 back on will be like torture, my glass is getting full of algae too.

Here's a couple photos

These Cherry barbs go from dull to Red in seconds when the start thinking about making baby Barbs, which is at least 4 days a week. Even the females fins get Red.
















I got some new freshwater Flounders (4) today but not sure on the species yet. According to Bluegrass Aquatics it's Brachirus panoides and they get about 6 inches or so, I've had them before with no luck in the getting big dept.









I'd say it the same


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## mscichlid (Jul 14, 2008)

You got flounders for your planted tank?


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## plecostomouse (Jun 9, 2011)

:O fresh water flounders.... that is awesome!!
good luck with them


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

Those fish are pretty cool.


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## Chaos_Being (May 18, 2010)

I love those freshwater flounders...never seen those before. Those cherry barbs look great too, those are definitely the reddest ones I've seen.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

mscichlid said:


> You got flounders for your planted tank?


Yeah, I really like flounder, hillstream loaches (look like Rays), FW clams, etc.



plecostomouse said:


> :O fresh water flounders.... that is awesome!!
> good luck with them


Thanks, I've kept them before and they have never reached the 5 to 6 inches claimed as full size, the fish in the photo is actually the biggest one I've ever had, them live about 2 years at best in my prior experience.



cableguy69846 said:


> Those fish are pretty cool.


I think so too, they are so thin you can see right thru them when they are back lit, all their organs are on one side of their spine and they are evolution at it's best, a true mistake.



Chaos_Being said:


> I love those freshwater flounders...never seen those before. Those cherry barbs look great too, those are definitely the reddest ones I've seen.


We used to have a great LFS that carried all this stuff and now they are gone, but a new store is starting to pick up the slack, Arizona Gardens carries a lot of fresh water oddities but the shipping is beyond my pay grade plus these filter feeder type fish & mollusks don't ship well.

I gotta get my game together on the off camera flash because even the females are striking when captured properly, but I'm so lazy with the camera. The colors due get bright while mating and will dull during any rest from mating, but they are at it 4 or 5 days a week like permanent teenagers.


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## [email protected] (Apr 27, 2011)

Oh, man them fish are GREAT!! I so want to do an oddities tank. I think that would be sweet.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I hope my LFS starts to get more odd ball items that are community tank friendly.

I got my hose barb today so the C02 is back on so lighting and dosing can resume, now I can finish my re-scape and get on with the tank being some what normal. It was on 6 days without C02, high light, and dosing, the plants really look ratty and dull without their daily fix of ferts and most of all iron, with exceptions like the Rotala macrandra 'Japan red' is starting to put out some nice red growth from nitrates being low, someone had told me C02 made it dull but I'm going to try it in the nano and see.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> Yeah, I really like flounder, hillstream loaches (look like Rays), FW clams, etc.


I see those at my LFS too. I may get some when I get a bigger tank up and running. They are really cool looking.



150EH said:


> shipping is beyond my pay grade


Military?



150EH said:


> I hope my LFS starts to get more odd ball items that are community tank friendly.
> 
> I got my hose barb today so the C02 is back on so lighting and dosing can resume, now I can finish my re-scape and get on with the tank being some what normal. It was on 6 days without C02, high light, and dosing, the plants really look ratty and dull without their daily fix of ferts and most of all iron, with exceptions like the Rotala macrandra 'Japan red' is starting to put out some nice red growth from nitrates being low, someone had told me C02 made it dull but I'm going to try it in the nano and see.


Glad to see your CO2 is back up and running. Now your plants can have their "juice" back.roud:


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Disability, the only thing less than Military.


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## jart (Jan 17, 2003)

Tank looks really good, 150, and I like those fish shots. I never would have thought a flounder would make an appearance on the forum


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

My uncle used to have 'em over 40 years ago. Thought they were the coolest and still do.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I looked for them all day but have yet to find one.

I started to move things around and clean up in the tank a little today but it seems like just too much work and after 8 days the driftwood still wants to float and if i didn't have a tank with a center brace it would be half out of the tank.

I also put some Fissidens very close to the waters surface and after 5 or 6 days of evaporation it is partially exposed to air, normally this would be no problem but after dunking the wood into the water I notice a bunch of little bugs jumping across the surface and I have no idea what to do, Excel was the only thing that popped into my head.

She finally appeared just as I was getting ready to clean the glass I turned and she was waiting, it's the big one so I'm assuming it's a female.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I'm guessing the bugs are some type of aphids so if you have any ideas let me know.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> Disability, the only thing less than Military.


Got ya.



150EH said:


> I'm guessing the bugs are some type of aphids so if you have any ideas let me know.


You may be right. I think there is a thread on the bugs on this site somewhere.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

150EH said:


> I'm guessing the bugs are some type of aphids so if you have any ideas let me know.


If they were moving anywhere in my tank, the fish would gobble 'em up lickity split!


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

Voila. Here it is.:icon_smil


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I didn't see anything as small as what I have, these are so small you can't see any legs, head, body, etc. and they look like salt dancing on the water surface.

I had aphids before on some Frogbit years ago and they were much larger, here's the old photo.


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## inka4041 (Jul 27, 2008)

Great looking setup! I'd be willing to bet your mini mystery bugs are springtails. I have orange ones in my 90, and they move around with a super fast jumping motion when disturbed.

http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/collembola


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

inka4041 said:


> Great looking setup! I'd be willing to bet your mini mystery bugs are springtails. I have orange ones in my 90, and they move around with a super fast jumping motion when disturbed.
> 
> http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/collembola


Thanks for the compliment and the info, I read the article and they could be a very tiny or juvenile population and they are like jumping beans.


Maybe the Flounders will eat the Spingtails, last night after lights out 3 of the Flounders were on the glass and two like the current from the spraybar on the front glass, one at the surface was actually making a slurping sound.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

The whole time my tank was without C02 it seemed to be a downhill spiral with lots of algae on the glass, plants melting, and cloudy water.

This morning I came in to feed the fish and the water was so clear it looked like the tank was empty, the C02 has been on for 3 days and after dosing macros & micros the water is super clear.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> The whole time my tank was without C02 it seemed to be a downhill spiral with lots of algae on the glass, plants melting, and cloudy water.
> 
> This morning I came in to feed the fish and the water was so clear it looked like the tank was empty, the C02 has been on for 3 days and after dosing macros & micros the water is super clear.


It is amazing what will happen when a tank is thrown out of balance for a few days. Glad it is all back to normal.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I had a small forest of C. wendtii brown right by my spraybar and all that water is C02 rich normally so these plants had 10 inch leaves and were beautiful, now they are mostly stems with a piece of melted leaf attached, I'd say 50% of the leaves are gone. I'll wait a couple days and trim all the ratty leaves so new leaves will start popping out quicker.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> I had a small forest of C. wendtii brown right by my spraybar and all that water is C02 rich normally so these plants had 10 inch leaves and were beautiful, now they are mostly stems with a piece of melted leaf attached, I'd say 50% of the leaves are gone. I'll wait a couple days and trim all the ratty leaves so new leaves will start popping out quicker.


When it comes to that, I will trim a leaf every time a new one pops up. Not sure if that would be better for your plant as I am sure it is huge. But it is a thought for the future. I hope it bounces back for you quickly too.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Flounder Fest 2011, it looks like a tear or something in one shot? She's cool though with a gill on each side that look more like blow holes.


















If your walking through the house and a hum is getting closer from behind, just run!


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> If your walking through the house and a hum is getting closer from behind, just run!


New toy?:biggrin:


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

Haha! I got something similar to that for Christmas. :biggrin:

Kinda hard to fly in the house


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

This one is small and it's setting on my computer in the photo, I think it is made to fly in the house because it says in the instructions not to have the AC on to avoid drafts, the instructions were poorly translated kinda like a SunSun Outside Filter.

I've gotta order some more rechargeable AA's, I've run out between all the remotes, thermostat, camera flash gun, and now this thing takes 6 in the remote. I can't wait to torture everyone with this thing!

BTW I guess that flounder had some shrimp flesh in it's mouth or something because a minute later it was gone.

I also got a new drop checker from Mordalphus and it's the old Dupla style by Up!Aqua and it works good and quickly, it is so much better than my glass tear drop style DC that helped me kill a bunch of Rummy's trying to get it to turn green. The new one was green 45 minutes after I put it in the tank.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Well it's been a week with things back to normal and today was WC day, it was a must to vacuum and the S. porto velho collects all the trash. But I'm not complaining because it's up front where I can se it needs to be done and it's done.

The DW is not saturated enough to sink and after 4 to 6 inches was exposed to the air it was heavy enough to sit on the bottom so I filled the tank extra hight to help with that and the spring tails, which I think the Chili Rasboroas are enjoying.

I have also decided to have my dosing day of rest after the WC instead at the end of the week and here's why, I always feel like it's too much fert and the fish have suffer in that last day of dirty water with all that junk in there, so I'd rather have a day of clean water for them to enjoy and it might help with glass cleaning and overall water quality, plus the plants are loaded down with all the ferts they can handle so it makes more sense to me.

My water was very tea color or at least I think so, I had replaced 4 x 65 watt Pure Aquatic CFL bulbs back on April 20th and by May 9th one bulb had been replaced free by the retailer but before I could install it a second bulb went, this is within 30 days of purchase. Well the third bulb just went so I installed the free bulb and sent off an email to the retailer to let them know Pure Aquatic bulbs are defective, so next time I'll go with a proven bulb like Coramax.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> Well it's been a week with things back to normal and today was WC day, it was a must to vacuum and the S. porto velho collects all the trash. But I'm not complaining because it's up front where I can se it needs to be done and it's done.
> 
> The DW is not saturated enough to sink and after 4 to 6 inches was exposed to the air it was heavy enough to sit on the bottom so I filled the tank extra hight to help with that and the spring tails, which I think the Chili Rasboroas are enjoying.
> 
> ...


Do you dose once a week?


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

No, I dose 3 days of macros and 3 days of micros, and every day I dose Fe, and at the end of that 6 day is the "day of rest" with no dosing then the following day is the water change. I just think it makes sense to move the day of rest up to the front.


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## plecostomouse (Jun 9, 2011)

how did you get those kool flounder pics?


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

They just like to be on the glass so I cropped them down to see what they looked like up close. My tank is funny because the glass is 1/2 thick and green, so if you don't take the shot at a 90 degree angle to the glass the photo gets distorted, but the lay on the substrate too and it looks cool because their bodys follow the contour but the 90 degree thing messes up the shots most of the time.

They would love those Oak leaves in your tank, but I would never see them again.


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

oh man my lfs has some of those too! 20 bucks each. I never knew there is such thing freshwater flounders lol.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> No, I dose 3 days of macros and 3 days of micros, and every day I dose Fe, and at the end of that 6 day is the "day of rest" with no dosing then the following day is the water change. I just think it makes sense to move the day of rest up to the front.


I think you are right.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

sayurasem said:


> oh man my lfs has some of those too! 20 bucks each. I never knew there is such thing freshwater flounders lol.


I paid $2.49 each so I got 4, but $20 is really steep, but they are a nice addition to a tank.



cableguy69846 said:


> I think you are right.


I think so too, why let the fishy's sit in that nasty water for a day before swapping out half, when the could enjoy a full day of relaxation of clean oxygenated water and it can't make any difference in grow.

BTW driftwood still buoyant day 12, ahhhhhhhhh!


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> I paid $2.49 each so I got 4, but $20 is really steep, but they are a nice addition to a tank.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That driftwood will float for a long time. Too bad you can't boil it.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Day 13 and still floating, can I borrow a pot to boil it in?

The tank is still a mess and has a strange film on the water surface and I also removed some moss today that had some Blue-green, Slime or Smear algae in it and this is not an algae but a cyanobacteria, audioaficionado is also complaining about this and we have something in common as we both just started dosing Fe, that blue stuff really stinks.


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

I think we need a vid during feeding time. It should be pretty cool as to how they eat. Or what they eat...


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> Day 13 and still floating, can I borrow a pot to boil it in?
> 
> The tank is still a mess and has a strange film on the water surface and I also removed some moss today that had some Blue-green, Slime or Smear algae in it and this is not an algae but a cyanobacteria, audioaficionado is also complaining about this and we have something in common as we both just started dosing Fe, that blue stuff really stinks.


Wish I had a pot big enough for that. If you get your hands on one, you can put it over a bonfire outside and see how that works. That may take a while. But it is a cool idea.

Not sure about the blue green gunk though.

Is the water surface still, or is there a decent amount of flow on it?


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I'll see tomorrow if the wood is any heavier from getting saturated, it was pretty close at last weeks water change and being in deeper water should have helped.

I think the green gunk is a combination of things, too much Fe dosing, trapped fresh frozen brine shrimp getting trapped in that moss log, but as soon as the new DW sinks I can move the moss.

It depends on how much I fill the tank but the flow is pretty good and extremely good at lower water heights with a hole above water it can get fairly noisy. I did learn something over the holidays about surface scum, I missed C02 & dosing for a week and then missed a couple more days dosing do to holiday traveling and I think the phosphates get rid of the film. I've been increasing my KH2P04 to get rid of some GSA and it cleared the film and cleared the water after just one dose last night, but I can't be positive that was it and can only say the water was crystal clear this morning and there was no film at all.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I wanted to mention some great customer service from "that fish place, that pet place" I bought 4 x 65 watt CFL bulbs ($84) on April 20th and by May 9th one had burned out so they sent me a new bulb free of charge and this was expected being it wasn't even 30 days, but before I received it a second bulb died and I decided not to mention it as it just seemed unbelievable and like I was out to get free gear. So last week another burnt out and I replaced with the bulb they had sent and had only been running 2 bulbs in this fixture all summer but I wanted them to know and maybe contact the manufacturer so they would know, well they want to replace them or give me a credit. I thought this was above and beyond todays customer service policies and was glad to hear they were standing behind their products, don't forget electronics are not guaranteed like other items and even some televisions only get 90 days.

The bulbs were a new line of cheaper bulbs and as stated only $84 for four bulbs, but I learned my lesson and some things you just can't skimp on and this is one, so when purchasing replacement bulbs I suggest well known manufacturers only.

BTW day 21 and still floating!!

Edit: That fish place that pet place sent me an email and wants to credit me for the remaining 3 bulbs so I can get the proper bulbs, I couldn't be happier that I had sent the original email, and if your every worried about a warranty this is the place to shop.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

Glad to hear you solved some issues.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

A couple close crops of the Manzanita in low light.
































One of the juvinile Rummy's starting to get some color!























and some Pearl Weed


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

Those are some good shots man.roud:


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

cableguy69846 said:


> Those are some good shots man.roud:


Thanks Cable.

I thought this fish just had some food caught in her mouth but it's still there after a week or more, do you think this could be COLUMNARIS near or in the mouth of this Brachirus panoides or is it normal. I watched through the camera lens at the fish moving it's mouth open and closed and it looks like cotton everywhere, let me know what you think? It's a weird looking fish and it looks like it has three eyes too, but it must be nostrils.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

That definitely does not look good. I would assume the worst at this point and treat accordingly.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

So far API is suggesting Pimafix and Aquarium Salt but I've posted in the fish area as well and await the answer from a fish guru. I have no idea what to do!


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I've done a lot of reading over the last couple of days in an effort to save this $2.49 Flounder but it seems to be working out well. I discovered this is more likely Saprolegnia because it has a branch or hair like structure and is not as contagious as Columnaris but closely related and treated almost the same. I removed the fish from the 150 and housed it in the nano then I unplugged the heater to help control the growth of the fungus and keep the fish lethargic, I've read salt tolerant fish can take up to 1 teaspoon of salt in a quart of water so yesterday I did a 30 minute salt bath with 3/4 teaspoon of salt and today I did a full teaspoon of salt, I used a quart of aquarium water and pre-dissolved the salt in hot tap water to help dissolve and keep the temp up on the little quart container, believe it or not I think the fish enjoys it and was very easy to get in the net after the first treatment so it's going pretty smooth. I listed some photos below and the first one shows she had the fungus/mold while in the LFS baggy, the second is the full blown sickness, and the third is after 2 treatments and it seems to be getting smaller and she started eating after the first treatment.















This one is shot through the weeds but I can see the back corner of her mouth starting to look normal and it now looks like a cotton ball she can't spit out.








I'm sad to say I did lose one of these Flounders the other day but I don't think it was related to this and I took photos and look it over good and there was no evidence of any fungus, it was the runt of the litter and may have been getting picked on by larger fish, this place is a jungle after lights out.

I'm going to post the link I used to figure this whole thing out, it is updated ruling out old treatments and bad advise from old sites, so it's a must have for people with expensive fish, take a look here and it will lead you all over the place with good info


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Wow Tim, I love those flounders! I hope you can save them.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Thanks and I love em too, but it looks like it's going pretty good and she like the substrate in the nano, it's Stratum and is feather light so she can dig right in and cover her self and after the fungus is gone she will be hard to find because those eyeballs just look like more substrate. I might just leave her in there but I'll have to do more research but I'm pretty sure just about any fish will eat shrimp fry and I want it to be a shrimp tank, so well see.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

Glad to hear you are making some headway on the problem. Sorry to hear about the lost fish though man. Keep up the good work though, and I am sure you won't have any big problems.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Well I salted my Flounder for the third day in a row but I'm not sure if I'm making any progress at all as it looks worse than yesterday. I may have to make the 50 minute drive to my LFS for some of the medications and I'm going to re-read that article as this must be too bad for salt only treatment.

I rode my motorcycle for a short hop on Saterday afternoon and right now I'm watching snow cover the front lawn, it would be nice if I could do this every week this winter.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> Well I salted my Flounder for the third day in a row but I'm not sure if I'm making any progress at all as it looks worse than yesterday. I may have to make the 50 minute drive to my LFS for some of the medications and I'm going to re-read that article as this must be too bad for salt only treatment.
> 
> I rode my motorcycle for a short hop on Saterday afternoon and right now I'm watching snow cover the front lawn, it would be nice if I could do this every week this winter.


Sorry to hear about the flounder man. Hope it gets better for you.

Sorry to hear about the snow too. I think Chicago is going to make up for the mild December and January with lots of snow in February. So not looking for ward to that.


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## green_valley (Sep 14, 2011)

150EH said:


> Well I salted my Flounder for the third day in a row but I'm not sure if I'm making any progress at all as it looks worse than yesterday. I may have to make the 50 minute drive to my LFS for some of the medications and I'm going to re-read that article as this must be too bad for salt only treatment.
> 
> I rode my motorcycle for a short hop on Saterday afternoon and right now I'm watching snow cover the front lawn, it would be nice if I could do this every week this winter.


Woww, snowy?


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

She is definitely snowy white with mold and so cool that I need to break out my flash and get serious about some photos, this shot is after 5 days of 30 minute salt baths and it looks no better to me unless I wake to a clean fish tomorrow I'll need to make the trip for meds. This shot is so cool I had to post it, from the little warning hair that would be the only thing poking through the substrate to let her know danger is above, to the bulging eyes and nose tube this fish is so specialized and fun to look at close up. One more thing is she is more like a dog than a fish and seems to love to get in the net for a salt bath, each day I have caught her in just seconds with no fight.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

She may not be getting better, but it doesn't look to be getting worse either.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

cableguy69846 said:


> She may not be getting better, but it doesn't look to be getting worse either.


This is an old photo but you can see around the gill on her belly it is very red, now it's all white and looks a lot better after the salt so she must have been in a breeder tank full of poo an dead fish or something nasty to get this inflamed.









I didn't know the hair like mold was out of the normal when I took this photo but you can clearly see the mold/fungus.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

*Hammer Time??*

I'm ready to hit this tank with a hammer and get it over worth, I recently added a large piece of DW than my C02 regulator broke for a week and two weeks after I fixed it I also had to remove a deceased fish so I reduced the temperature to 76 degree so it wouldn't spread rapidly through the tank, I also unplugged the heater in the tank that now houses the sick fish. Really this is all unrelated dribble just flowing from my blow hole as I pull out my hair watching both tanks fill with algae.

They both have a type of brown thread algae that you can remove with a toothbrush and out of water it looks like a slime ball instead of thread, but the 150 also has BBA in all color, a very course hair algae that is tough as nails, some blue green slime that seems to like the mosses, so I don't know what action to take.

What I have done so far is clean 1 of 2 filters on the 150 and cleaned the nano filter, I dose the 150 weekly so it gets weekly WC's and a light vacuum of loose debris on the substrate surface, I have trimmed all the damaged leaves and there were a lot of melted Crypt leaves from the C02 loss, I've trimmed all the mosses short and thinned or trimmed every plant in the tank, so what gives.

While trimming a piece of DW that was removed from the tank I filled a syringe with Excel and hit the BBA on the wood twice with straight Excel and it all died within a week, so tomorrow is WC day and I want to do this to the very large piece of DW that I can't remove, so while the water level is low I hit the bare areas. With this in mind can Excel go directly on the Fissidens or should I just start dosing the tank with Excel, keep in mind I have 6 varieties of Crypts that melt after extended treatments of Excel. The Blue Green/Cyanobacteria need to be treated with a Erythromycin but it can and will destroy your nitrifying bacteria if over used, so I can't risk 82 fish in a tank with no bio media.

Help.:help:


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Whatever you do, don't try and do everything at the same time. Focus on the problem that bothers you the most and give it time to work and everything re balances again. Then go after the next problem, etc.

How's the CO2 and the ferts? Water changes? Sick fish still? BBA isn't the end of the world so I'd let it go and see how the CO2, ferts & WC do over some weeks. Keep an eye on the fish and separate any that look off and try and keep any stressors on the healthy fish minimized. Fish die and a dead fish doesn't mean a disease is afoot, but keep an eye out for any die off trend. I had a several fish die off recently after introducing some Petsmart fish, but it eventually ran it's course over a week and the other six dozen fish seem to be healthy and happy. BTW the Petsmart fish weren't the one's who died off.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Steve the sick fish is still in the nano by herself and still sick, I have Seachem Paragard and Methylene Blue on the way from Marine Depot, I'll do some MB & Salt baths and use the PG in the tank if I have to go the extra mile.

As for the algae I'm only concerned for the Cyanobacteria and after a bit of research I have found some good advise, or I hope I have but here's the do's and don'ts as I understand it.

Antibiotics are effective but can start a cycle by killing off your nitrifying bacteria so this treatment is out for large aquariums or aquariums with a high bio load.

Blackouts are not effective and often followed by a repeat outbreak of Cyanobacteria

A light spectrum of 6,400 or better on the Kelvin scale is helpful in fighting this bacteria This area needs some help, I installed 2 x 5,500 thinking some low in the spectrum light might be good but this is the yellow light we all hate so I wouldn't mind swapping these out for something higher like 10K

Electrolytes from Wonder Shells or trace elements from a gH booster are effective in treatment, it has to do with Redox balance which is no an issue with tanks that use tap water with frequent water changes.

UV sterilizers are effective for the obvious reason that it kills bacteria - I need to get mine back in working order and re-installed

Nutrients in the water column should be kept low and feed sparingly as dirty low flow tanks can easily have outbreaks.

Hydrogen Peroxide as used in household application at 3% can be used directly on the bacteria by turning off all filters and applying directly with a pipette for 30 minutes, but still does not address the cause. I'm going to try this tomorrow

Increase circulation can help, in tends to thrive in low oxygen, high nutrient water. I have 2 550 gph pumps if needed

Lower the temperature on your heater to below 76 degrees I lowered my temps when I had found the sick fish

Clean your filters to remove decaying organics being careful not to disturb the bio filter. I did one but I might do the other one early

Lightly vacuum your substrate if needed to remove decaying organics. This is regular practice for me


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## jweis (Jan 31, 2011)

Don't squirt Excel on the Fissidens, they will definitely die. The only way I have found to remove algae from Fissidens is Amanos or manually. 

Good luck!


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## kwheeler91 (May 26, 2009)

Try fungus clear by jungle labs. has worked very well for me in the past for similar fungi outbreaks.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

jweis said:


> Don't squirt Excel on the Fissidens, they will definitely die. The only way I have found to remove algae from Fissidens is Amanos or manually.
> 
> Good luck!


I wish I had of read this 20 minutes ago as I decided this morning to go with Excel just because I am more familiar with the product and wait on trying the Hydrogen Peroxide until next week if need be. I turned of my filters and squirted the Fissidens with straight Excel but only waited 5 minutes before I started to do a light vacuum and then drain the tank, so I'm hoping it was light enough to kill the bacteria and not the plant, I'll have to wait and see. I also have used Excel on my driftwood to clear the algae after the water level drops I use a syringe to apply Excel directly to the wood.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

kwheeler91 said:


> Try fungus clear by jungle labs. has worked very well for me in the past for similar fungi outbreaks.


I was trying to find that but sometimes it's hard to get everything you need at one place so you only have to pay shipping once.

The Paragard should do it and if needed I can add Furan 2 for a super strong cocktail that kills all, I report the results after I receive the products and use them but the week (5 days) of salt baths have retarded the growth good enough that I could wait for a UPS delivery.


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## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

I'm sorry to see your flounder ailing, but hopefully you can get it cleared up. As for your tank, get all that stuff out manually as well as you can, keep a clean tank, get your CO2 back in line and your plants perking, along with frequent water changes like 50% every other day for a couple of weeks and the algae will fade away. It's all the stuff you already know to do so it shouldn't be too hard, just takes a bit of time.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Thanks Jeff and it did look better today after some Excel treatments but tomorrow afternoon will tell all. I did order some 65 watt 420nm/10K bulbs from Catalina today, $15 each what an incredible price I hope the bulbs are quality (everyone seems to like their stuff), I also called because they had a growbulb/10K bulb but it's pink and at the low end of the Kelvin scale and I'm trying to avoid that area. The owner told me reef tankers will go all blue when facing Cyanobacteria and he said the blue made fish look nice so I got a pair, plus the 10K is better for deep tanks. I've learned a lot from this bacteria and fungus on my fish, so it will help in future setups.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

Sorry to hear about the ongoing issues. Wish I had some advice for you, but, alas, you have been doing this longer than I have, so, I am going to follow it as closely as possible.roud:

I can say, that the 10,000K bulbs do well for plants. I have one on my emersed box, and the plants are going nuts. I am sure it will be helpful on your tank as well. Good luck with them and everything else man.:icon_bigg


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Thanks Cable, I did know prior to this 10K was better for deep tanks but it makes so much sense with reef tanks using even higher parts of the Kelvin scale.

Here some of my Algae shots:


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> Thanks Cable, I did know prior to this 10K was better for deep tanks but it makes so much sense with reef tanks using even higher parts of the Kelvin scale.
> 
> Here some of my Algae shots:


No problem man. And I had some of that algae too. Not sure what happened, but one day it was gone. No idea what caused it or how I got rid of it.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

The Excel treatment helped bit I did loose some Fissidens but it's really hard to tell with so much of the thread like algae up there too. Sometimes these tanks just get over whelming with one problem after another and I'm due for a break. But help is on the way with some blue wave lengths, Speedie was always complaining my camera was off and the white balance was too yellow but it's my lighting, so I'm excited about the blue.


Mrs. Flounder got a salt/methylene blue bath today for 30 minutes, man a half bottle of Chlorox later I can tell you why it's called blue, just removing the foil safety wrapper and your fingers are blue. I also put a half dose of Paraguard in the tank, there are conflicting reports of it being plant safe and I also read a half dose with sensitive fish which a lot of bottom feeders are, but it seem like goo stuff covering bacterial, fungus, and parasite so I hope it works.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Round 2, I did the exact same treatment today with the bath and the other half of the Paraguard to make a full dose, I though I would ease the meds in slowly so no shock would occur from a drastic change, so far so good. It looks smaller but the same with no real outline of the mouth visible with the naked eye and I do see all that well so I'll takes some pics later today for conformation.

Just when I though I had this algae thing figured out I was hit with a curve ball, I was just searching to find out how long to medicate and came across a BBA does and don't, there it was staring me in the face "don't use any blue light or BBA will multiply like crazy" can it really be this complicated, no but there are so many conflicting articles it can make you crazy.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

My new bulbs came today so here's a FTS with new blue on the left and old yeller on the right.
















The blue definitely tricks the camera but I don't see much difference in person. I have hacked anything that interferes with flow and had a lot of melt.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

The Flounder is starting to look better too. The left side is before any treatment and the right side is after 2 treatments, I can see the mass getting smaller and less dense, I think.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

My fissidens took a hard hit, I need to pay attention but I didn't know mosses didn't like Excel until it was too late.










Near the water surface it was even worse, plus the apon didn't like it either.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

The last photo is old and before the blue lights were installed.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

Hi, Mike. Those fish look good. Sorry to see the fissidens in that state. Is anything starting to bounce back yet?


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

If you have surviving bits of fissidens left, it should eventually fully recover and fill back in. How do you like those 10k° K lights? I've got 6.5k° K lights and they don't seem at all blue, but with all the yellow-green plants I'm not surprised.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

cableguy69846 said:


> Hi, Mike. Those fish look good. Sorry to see the fissidens in that state. Is anything starting to bounce back yet?


Why Fred, thanks for the fishy compliment, most of it is coming back, if you look at the side by side photos the can see how much smaller the Crypts are to the right, but it won't be long.



audioaficionado said:


> If you have surviving bits of fissidens left, it should eventually fully recover and fill back in. How do you like those 10k° K lights? I've got 6.5k° K lights and they don't seem at all blue, but with all the yellow-green plants I'm not surprised.


There is a tiny bit of Fissidens left so I'm hope it will return, plus I need to transfer the mosses off of that mid air DW to the left. The 10K's are nice and seem to be helping in growth, they are 50/50 bulbs for reef tanks so one side of the bulb is a atinic 420 nm. The Excel treatments helped a lot so I'm not complaining about the plant loss, but things are coming around.

On a different note, I got 8 blue LED moonlights from Catalina with my order the other day, my Current USA fixture had 4 but they had burned out from the heat and I had replaced the transformer earlier this year only to find they had died. But I drilled 4 new hole in the center of my reflector and they all work great, it does just give a moo light effect so it has to be lights out and let your eyes adjust for 45 minutes and you still can't see anything but I'm sure the fish can ans I put them on a timer from 7pm to 3am.

After I replaced the LED's, got my new 10K/420nm bulbs, a frik'n ballast went out and a fan, so I'll order them next month but until then I'm 2 bulbs dow again, it's always something. I do have to say I have never used Catalina before but like them a lot all ready, power compact bulbs for $15 and cheap shipping plus he had replacement sockets for my light fixture $2 each, and the LED's and I'm impressed as my USPS delivery from Catalina beat the UPS delivery by 3 days, both from CA, so give them a try.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Here's what I got and they seem to be built for long term commercial usage.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1374186-post4.html


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

whats up with the old man looking fish?


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

I don't know how I missed thus for so long! It looks real cool! And that flounder is so cool!


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

audioaficionado said:


> Here's what I got and they seem to be built for long term commercial usage.
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1374186-post4.html


Steve those look nice but lack a really good reflector from what I could see in the photo, unless you are just talking about the bulb. Also I have never used any T5 or similar type of lighting but I think I would get my T5 lighting custom built from Catalina as I really like his stuff, I talked to him (Jim) briefly and he was a very nice guy. How are they working out on your tank, I know it is a deep tank too.



nonconductive said:


> whats up with the old man looking fish?


You must be talking about the purple looking old Kribensis with hole in the head, he has lived his whole life in this tank and is one of the fry in this photo from 5-30-2005. I never really thought about it but he doesn't have any of the same markings of his Dad or Mom, no light bands of color at all, Mailman strikes again.











orchidman said:


> I don't know how I missed thus for so long! It looks real cool! And that flounder is so cool!


Thanks, here's today's update on the Flounder and it actually looks like a small piece of fungus/mold has opened the very back corner of his mouth, this is some tough stuff to get rid of and has taken longer than I expected.








I like all the little hooks on her belly that must help her hold on to the bottom in fast current or something of that nature.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> Why Fred, thanks for the fishy compliment, most of it is coming back, if you look at the side by side photos the can see how much smaller the Crypts are to the right, but it won't be long.


No problem, TIM. I finally got it right. :icon_bigg

Crypts take a minute to come back, but they are really hardy plants and usually survive most things. Save for the more rare ones. One of the reasons I think I love them.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

cableguy69846 said:


> No problem, TIM. I finally got it right. :icon_bigg
> 
> Crypts take a minute to come back, but they are really hardy plants and usually survive most things. Save for the more rare ones. One of the reasons I think I love them.


It's funny you say that because some of the Crypts are in the old photo just above from 2005.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> It's funny you say that because some of the Crypts are in the old photo just above from 2005.


Are those the crypts you still have in the tank?


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Yep, they are old. Those are the C. wendtii brown and they have been in the tank for 7 or 8 years. The only other plant that old in the tank is the pair of Apons, both have massive roots you can see on the under side of the tank.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> Yep, they are old. Those are the C. wendtii brown and they have been in the tank for 7 or 8 years. The only other plant that old in the tank is the pair of Apons, both have massive roots you can see on the under side of the tank.


Nice. Gives me some great hope for all my crypts.roud:


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

150EH said:


> Steve those look nice but lack a really good reflector from what I could see in the photo, unless you are just talking about the bulb. Also I have never used any T5 or similar type of lighting but I think I would get my T5 lighting custom built from Catalina as I really like his stuff, I talked to him (Jim) briefly and he was a very nice guy. How are they working out on your tank, I know it is a deep tank too.


I also got the very good snap on reflectors I linked. Tank is plenty bright and even with only 7 hour photoperiod, I have to scrub off GDA every week on the top half of the glass. At least GDA scrubs off easy compared to GSA.

Growers use these in commercial plant/hydroponics operations. Locally however, I doubt they use 'em for growin' tomatos LOL.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

audioaficionado said:


> I also got the very good snap on reflectors I linked. Tank is plenty bright and even with only 7 hour photoperiod, I have to scrub off GDA every week on the top half of the glass. At least GDA scrubs off easy compared to GSA.
> 
> Growers use these in commercial plant/hydroponics operations. Locally however, I doubt they use 'em for growin' tomatos LOL.


I took another look and they look like nice lights and the snap on reflecters looked good too. They had all kinds of lighting and bulbs including some fixtures from Tec and a LED fixture that threw a 4' x 4' patch of light for $3400.00 and quoted the use as vegatable light. 


Anyway here's the 11 pm Flounder report, I don't know how this fish hasn't starved to death but I can just see a tiny bit of mouth, tiny. I used a stronger dose today so that may help move this along, I hope.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

That fish is starting to look better.:icon_smil


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

cableguy69846 said:


> That fish is starting to look better.:icon_smil


I think so too Cable, it's really amazing how bad she was and how hard this is to get rid of, I must not have the right meds or my doses are too light. I have added just a little salt to her tank to help with her slime coat and gH booster to keep the parameters correct for the meds, and meds in the tank with 2 baths a day now, it's starting to kick my butt.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

After a week of treatment this is what I have, it's a little better but I want more after all this work.








Oto with either a tiny baby ramshorn snail, a mole, lice? The Najas looks like a thorny rose bush.















What a fatty, huh!


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## Marconis (Nov 8, 2010)

150EH said:


> A
> What a fatty, huh!


A couple of mine in the past got that fat and died soonafter. Poor fellas.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Marconis said:


> A couple of mine in the past got that fat and died soonafter. Poor fellas.


My females seem to be large and fat and the males small and skinny or at least that's what I thought, I've been luck with Oto's as I've never lost one at acclimation and I have never found a dead one yet, knock on wood. But some of mine were purchased in the middle of last summer and late fall of last year so they are not very old. I'm fairly certain thats a baby ramhorn snail on it's mouth but her gills do look really red so I'll have to pay attention, I hope you have better luck in the future with your Oto's.


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## So_Fishy (Jan 16, 2012)

I've scrolled through every page of your journal and enjoyed it very much! Your tank looks wonderful and I love the new DW. Good luck on getting that Flounder cured!


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

So_Fishy said:


> I've scrolled through every page of your journal and enjoyed it very much! Your tank looks wonderful and I love the new DW. Good luck on getting that Flounder cured!


Thank you very much but it doesn't look good for the Flounder and it been over 41 day since she has eaten and her mouth was full of fungus when I got her home but I didn't ever know until over a week later, but I gave it a good shot and my $2.49 Flounder has cost me around $46 in medication so I was fighting hard for her to win.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

On to a lighter subject, it seems my old Dupla 400 regulator will be retired very soon and I've decided to get something a little more automated with fine tuning. I have found a used PraxAir 4022 Dual Stage Stainless Steel Regulator for $65.45 delivered and I am working with Btimmer92 on a Burkert 6011 solenoid and Ideal needle valve setup and it should be around $235 when it's all said and done. I think it's going to be a nice setup and I think the price is really good and it makes it easy with all the bits coming from just 2 suppliers, I had alway thought my next regulator would be the Carbon Doser but when it came to laying out the cash it seemed not a good enough build for the cash. Below are some stolen photos (free advertisement) to give you a general idea.








This is pretty much what mine will be minus the bubble counter and so far Btimmer92 has been great to work with via pm answering all my stupid questions, so even at this point I think I would highly recommend him for any C02 related items.

It will be nice to have something with finer adjustment like the Ideal NV but a solenoid is the hot ticket for me as I used to leave my gas on 24/7 but the last 5 months I've been turning it on/off everyday so a more constant flow will help settle my tank a little and make it real easy on myself.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

That is gonna be a nice setup man. Maybe one of these days I will make the jump to pressurized CO2 and join you big boys.:hihi:


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

cableguy69846 said:


> That is gonna be a nice setup man. Maybe one of these days I will make the jump to pressurized CO2 and join you big boys.:hihi:


Cable you could just get one 20# tank and a good regulator with a big ole manifold to feed all your tanks, I've even seen people drill holes, go thru the attic, etc. to feed from a single tank.

Ok, a whole other subject, don't leave old people home alone, I over flowed my tank again today while typing on this thing, but a roll of paper towels later all is well. Water dripping from timers, etc is a little scary but they look like new when your done.

I re-did my spraybar today so it would be better supported and more vertical, I also reduced the hole size by 1/64th each and reduced the number of hole from 18 to 16, and raised the top hole to get surface movement earlier. It seems to be working well with an extremely full tank I am still getting good circulation and the current should be a tad faster.










The plants are still in recovery from the C02 loss but coming along, I'm still battle Cyanobacteria and have had a good outbreak of BBA as well, will the fun never stop! Hopefully I'll remove that stupid DW to the left this week and save some of the mosses but I think Excel treatments are in the near future but I just hate to have another adjustment period by adding something new, Help!


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Hey ya old fart, didn't your mother tell you to never try multitasking when you're filling your aquarium :biggrin:

FTS is looking good roud:


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

The Kicker is my wife is home with the Flu, so I jumped up a yelled and then she came running, I really gotta work on controlling my emotions, if I were just quiet nobody would know.

Thanks Steve, just don't use the control + when viewing my tank.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> Cable you could just get one 20# tank and a good regulator with a big ole manifold to feed all your tanks, I've even seen people drill holes, go thru the attic, etc. to feed from a single tank.
> 
> Ok, a whole other subject, don't leave old people home alone, I over flowed my tank again today while typing on this thing, but a roll of paper towels later all is well. Water dripping from timers, etc is a little scary but they look like new when your done.


I think my father-in-law would kill me for that. Lol. Once I get the basement to my liking, I will be able to do something like that down there. I may start looking into some paintball setups for the 2 tanks on the juice though.

ROFL!!! The Planted Tank. Causing tank floods since early 2000's. Lol.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

:iamwithst I might use that in my signature because that's 2 in as many months but it just so silent filling from the plumbing below.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> :iamwithst I might use that in my signature because that's 2 in as many months but it just so silent filling from the plumbing below.


Lol. You should hire someone to watch it fill for you.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Hah, be careful what you wish for, I'm hiring!


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## LetThereBeFish (Dec 7, 2011)

150EH said:


> After a week of treatment this is what I have, it's a little better but I want more after all this work.


Wow! What an amazing....eh..um...thing?:icon_mrgr


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

LetThereBeFish said:


> Wow! What an amazing....eh..um...thing?:icon_mrgr


Yea she is a little strange looking.

Even more bizarre, I've been bumping up my gH gradually, I've added a little salt, and restored my moon lights. I think with all this going on I have triggered some mating behavior or something, it happened really fast but my top of the hierarchy Green Kribensis female turned her whole under side purple and got a really bright green streak straight up to the tip of her dorsal fin. That is not a light beaming down on her but the strange color transformation and by the third photo is has already started to dull, but for about 30 to 45 seconds all the Cichlids wanted to be her friends and they were all rubbing on her, like a fish orgy.























You can see she has lost all her dark lateral lines to color up and even the old man Rainbow Krib got some color boost in his dorsal fin, I don't know what chemical pheromone she dropped but I would like to have some. I just thought is was cool and wanted to share.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

*RIP Mrs. Flounder*

I'm sorry to say despite my best efforts the Flounder did not make it and she has passed over to the big aquarium in the sky sometime last night, she will be missed.

R.I.P
Mrs. Fluke Sole Flounder
Purchased December 20 2011 - Died 2-2-2012


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Now I have my nano tank free to be what it was intended for CRS, what measure do I need to take before placing any shrimp in the tank. I don't think I have to worry about the fungus the fish had as the tank has been bombed with Paraguard and I have a bag of Carbon in the filter now plus I'll add new Carbon tonight, should I do anything else?


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Reminds me of my daughter's two $2.50/ea pet rats. By the time they died miserable deaths from a red mite infestation that eventually migrated into their lungs, she'd spent a hundred times that much at a vet trying to save them. The vet didn't have a clue as they never figured out the mite issue. I took one look at the seething red mass all over their skin under their fur and the blood coming out of their nostrils postmortem.

A friend of mine had the same issue with her son's guinea pig and it was easily treated with a sulfur compound. She thought they would have to put the poor thing down and had said their goodbys after taking it down to my vet. The vet just laughed and gave her the medicated shampoo instead that cured the issue. She now goes to the same vet as do half the people in the Rogue Valley LOL.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

Sorry to hear about the flounder man. Death seems to be going around. I lost a leopard gecko to Stick Tail a few days ago and lost my Fire Skink to old age today.:icon_frow


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> Now I have my nano tank free to be what it was intended for CRS, what measure do I need to take before placing any shrimp in the tank. I don't think I have to worry about the fungus the fish had as the tank has been bombed with Paraguard and I have a bag of Carbon in the filter now plus I'll add new Carbon tonight, should I do anything else?


As for this, I am not really sure. Check to see if there is any copper in the meds. If there is, you will never be able to put shrimp in the tank. You won't be able to use the filter or anything in the water for another shrimp tank too. But if not, I would imagine a few weeks of water changes and carbon should clean it out.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

audioaficionado said:


> Reminds me of my daughter's two $2.50/ea pet rats. By the time they died miserable deaths from a red mite infestation that eventually migrated into their lungs, she'd spent a hundred times that much at a vet trying to save them. The vet didn't have a clue as they never figured out the mite issue. I took one look at the seething red mass all over their skin under their fur and the blood coming out of their nostrils postmortem.
> 
> A friend of mine had the same issue with her son's guinea pig and it was easily treated with a sulfur compound. She thought they would have to put the poor thing down and had said their goodbys after taking it down to my vet. The vet just laughed and gave her the medicated shampoo instead that cured the issue. She now goes to the same vet as do half the people in the Rogue Valley LOL.


That stinks, maybe if I had of noticed earlier but I think he may have been that way for a while because it was getting better but too slowly.



cableguy69846 said:


> Sorry to hear about the flounder man. Death seems to be going around. I lost a leopard gecko to Stick Tail a few days ago and lost my Fire Skink to old age today.:icon_frow


That double dog stinks, we (my daughters) had a little Gecko with a red pouch it could inflate under it's chin, I think their habitat was Texas. But you had to mist them down or keep up the humidity, so my wife Fabreezed the poor thing for 3 or 4 minutes until I walked in the room and mention she had the wrong spray bottle.



cableguy69846 said:


> As for this, I am not really sure. Check to see if there is any copper in the meds. If there is, you will never be able to put shrimp in the tank. You won't be able to use the filter or anything in the water for another shrimp tank too. But if not, I would imagine a few weeks of water changes and carbon should clean it out.


No nothing with copper and I was only using the meds in the tank for 3 days a week and with 2 baths per day it was getting a half gallon water change everyday and I used carbon right after the meds too.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

cableguy69846 said:


> As for this, I am not really sure. Check to see if there is any copper in the meds. If there is, you will never be able to put shrimp in the tank. You won't be able to use the filter or anything in the water for another shrimp tank too. But if not, I would imagine a few weeks of water changes and carbon should clean it out.


I've had lots of copper sulfate in my tank years ago to get rid of snails. My surviving Amano shrimp seems to be happy. If the copper is water soluble, you can rinse/soak it all out of non porous objects.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> That stinks, maybe if I had of noticed earlier but I think he may have been that way for a while because it was getting better but too slowly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Fabreeze. Bad. It happens though.

If you were doing the meds that way, you should be good then. Just give it time to make sure.



audioaficionado said:


> I've had lots of copper sulfate in my tank years ago to get rid of snails. My surviving Amano shrimp seems to be happy. If the copper is water soluble, you can rinse/soak it all out of non porous objects.


That's the problem with the tanks though. It gets in the silicone and causes hell.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

OK on to the next catastrophe, my tank is full of Cyanobacteria and I have lots of slime and lots of green fuzz on plants, wood, etc. and it's time to get rid of it. I've been reading again to form a game plan and I just dumped 1200 mg of Erythromycin in my tank which is about a half dose if I were trying to treat an infected fish, but it will get another dose tomorrow, then 6 days of cleaning, a extra filter and a couple of water changes, what fun.

I just have to keep chanting, I love fish, I love plants, I love fish.................

for anyone that needs more info for a Cyano outbreak this guys plan looks pretty good,  so here's a link to how he has cured his tanks from the dreaded glue green.


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## HokieFish (Feb 5, 2012)

Hi 150EH, I just wanted to say that I've really enjoyed your journal. I just finished skimming through it and the tank has come a long way. I too have a 150 (48x24x30) that I am planting. I will definately be taking some ideas from your tank. 
Have you found that Co2 is an absolute necessity? I was trying to avoid it and go with Anubias, Swords, and some other lower maintenance plants. 
I hadn't originally planned on adding Otos, but after seeing the job they've done on your tank, they are now on the short list of fish to pick up. Thanks for the inspiration.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I don't think you absolutely need CO2 but I would recommend a good substrate like ADA's Aqua Soil, it may cost you a little more but just think of the challenge of replacing the substrate in a larger tank, and later if it gets muddy you can always cap it. Also with a good substrate you will not be limited to any plants except those that are very difficult to keep but even a single Sword can take over half of this tank and half the substrate when you pull it. If you like keeping small fish Oto's are the absolute best cleaners, they never eat except algae, and they won't bother shrimp and if you want shrimp you need to plan carefully. I'm glad you enjoyed it and it's been fun, just remember to save for exactly what you want and you'll only need to buy it once.

Welcome to the forum!!!!


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Cyano was on my mosses and the S. 'porto velho' and almost everything was getting a green fuzz on it and this had been killed off with Excel and returned in some areas in two weeks time, but 1 hour after adding the Erythromycin the green fuzz had transformed into sheets of Cyano on the DW and the tank looked better in terms of how heavy it had looked just an hour prior. This transformation may just be a coincidence but it seemed the medication had some immediate effect. Also after the water change today there was a brown dirt like scum floating on the surface and it also disappeared and the surface had bubbles everywhere like I had added dish soap, bizarre?


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Sounds like the BGA bio-film is breaking up as the individual bacteria are lysing upon mass death. That's gotta be making a heavy duty protein load as they break down creating the frothy water.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

That sound like something I had at Starbucks.

I'm not dosing but there are plenty of nutrients still in the water, I have slowed the C02 a tad so there is more oxygen available. Steve you should try this if it works out for me, the Mardel Maracyn (Erythromycin) 8 packs were on sale at the AquariumGuys for 3.99 each so for a tank my size I had to get 2 packs, but it was $15 total. In your case the shipping would be more than the product because you would only use 2 packets, then 2 more on day 2, then a quater of a packet on day 8. Do you have any kind of extra filter you could run and clean daily?


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

:help::help::help::help::help: OK, I'm getting rid of my Blue Goo, my new reg, valves, etc. is in the mail, now it's Aqua Soil time, I want to get rid of this old Flourite and all the stuff hiding in it, in just a few months it will be 8 years old and that's too long in a closed system.

I want to redo the tank and get rid of any fish that are large enough to eat shrimp, snails, etc. so I'll need to set up a couple of tanks to house the large critters and the ones that go back in, then I'll have an empty tank for hospital, grow out, etc. The thing is I have never used AS and know nothing about the ammonia spike, how to clear it, or how long it lasts. I also need to re-do the silicone in the corners of the tank so that will take a week to 10 day to cure but I need to work fast as the holding tanks will be seriously over stocked.

:help::help::help::help::help: I need suggestions from folks that have done stuff like this, mostly the AS.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

No extra filter canister, but I have a spare sleeve to keep the nitrifying bacteria on my old one out of harms way while I treat the tank.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I actually missed one treatment of medication as it was listed at the end of the "Day 4" treatment, so I'll have to run out and get an extra box of Maracyn, I'm just glad I caught it. Everything seem good but it seems the fish are lining up in the path of filter outlet and I would guess they could be feeling the effect of lower oxygen levels, if I seem any more signs of stress I'll add a bubble wand on a timer.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

A good vigorous surface ripple from the spray bar would do ten times more good than a bubble wand.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Well I can't do that, my spraybar is fixed in a vertical position, but I may add a 2215 tomorrow if needed.

BTW my A. crispus has put out a flower stalk during all of this, I have lost the last two so hopefully this one will bloom.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

People who get AS substrate always say to do several decants to lower the ammonium/ammonia spike. What would happen if you just let the plants eat it all up and keep the pH down with lots of CO2 so it will be the more beneficial ammonium ion that is less harmful? I'm assuming this would be done with only the flora and no fauna during the cycling.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

It would have to be done without any livestock because they wouldn't survive the spike.


I'm on "Day 3" of Cyanobacteria treatment and see no real need to add a filter, I just used my tongs to fluff the Fissidens and other plants that has sheets of algae, it all broke up and floated off. There will be a couple water changes involved so I'll do a light vacuum but it was no big deal overall, maybe others let it go until everything is covered and then more cleaning is required.

The water still stinks bad!


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Day 4 and all is well, no nitrites or ammonia spikes but I haven't dosed all week and have 20 ppm of nitrates so something has converted and I think the water has lost it's stinky smell but it may be my nose.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

I just got 4 days worth of Marcyn at Petsmart yesterday. This Monday is zero day after my weekly 50% decant.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

audioaficionado said:


> I just got 4 days worth of Marcyn at Petsmart yesterday. This Monday is zero day after my weekly 50% decant.


Good for you Steve, I'm glad to see you back in the game. My tank was only lightly covered in select areas so it's been very easy with no apparent spikes of ammonia or nitrites but I have a larger volume of water. The good news is after I got rid of it by fluffing the plants with my tongs, it's not growing back.

I'm still waiting on my regulator, needle valve, etc.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Well 'Day 6' of my Erythromycin treatment and a Rummy has a bad case of Pop Eye, it looks extremely painful. Last night I had the C02 cranking by accident and I'm lucky I didn't kill everything in the tank, now if you add that to the Cyanobacteria dying off it makes a double dose of low oxygen levels and from what I've read it's low oxygen and high levels of decaying organics that cause this. I did net the fish and put it in the nano for now and it's possible this is all it will need to reverse it's coarse from what I've read, but as always there are conflicting articles that make it very confusing so any comments or suggestions are certainly welcome.

I'm a $1.99 away from just dumping a gallon of Chlorox in this tank and starting over.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> I'm a $1.99 away from just dumping a gallon of Chlorox in this tank and starting over.


In that large of a tank, you think one gallon would do it?:hihi:

Don't give up yet man. There is still hope. You are at least making headway on some things, and one case of popeye is not as bad as the whole tank going belly up.:thumbsup:


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I really don't know squat about all the Gram (-) or (+) stuff but I figured if I added this med it would trigger something from the other side and it did, but like you said that's not so bad but the tank is just one PITA after the next. I need to house 86 fish so I can redo the whole thing.

The good news is one more day until new regulator and needle valve setup, wo who!

Oh, btw Day 7 and all is well so far, I did pull the polyester fill I'm using for fine media in my 2217, it had been a month and I wanted to make sure it was working and not clogging up and all was fine. I think the trick with this stuff is just because you got a huge bag for $4 don't make it too thick, I tried to match exactly the volume found in a Eheim fine filter pad and it worked great.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I have to revise the "Day 7 and all is well" I pulled out a dead Rummynosed Tetra that looked normal, then 2 more with each having one eye bulging, and my 6 year old SAE has a big red bloody streak on his dorsal fin and looks super pale and a few more Rummy's look pale too.

No nitrites or ammonia, and nitrates are very low at 5 ppm or less. I really mad that this is happening to my fish and I have no idea what to do to save them, it has to be they all had this underlying infection that the Erythromycin has brought to the surface and is killing off my fish, at one website I read that Pop Eye is not opportunistic so a water change wouldn't help and it seems perfect by all accounts.

This is the very reason I hate to add any medications or buffers to my water, and I normally would have never done this but the Cyanobacteria was getting out of control.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Sounds like the Erythromycin killed off some benign dominate bacteria that then allowed a pathogenic Gram+ resistant bacteria to take advantage of the loss of completion.

That's been the problem with broad spectrum antibiotics all along.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Why do I always come up a day late and a dollar short. 

On another note I have the first Rummy that got Pop Eye in my nano and if he survives it will be a miracle. Yesterday he was knocking on deaths door, he was upside down laying in the Mayaca for half the day, then stuck to the filter intake for a couple hours but his little gills were still pumping, so this morning I dumped in another full dose of the meds thinking it may kill him to relieve his suffering but 6 hours later he was setting upright but on the substrate but his eye looks so painful.

This is really horrible but I'll try to save him over euthanize








The dorsal fin on my SAE is another casualty with some bacterial infection. You can also see the BBA getting a foot hold in the background.








This is my only positive photo today with my A. crispus flower bud.


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

wow 150, sorry about your fish, that rummy looks awful.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

nonconductive said:


> wow 150, sorry about your fish, that rummy looks awful.


I think he's getting better, but I always say that and they die, but this time he really has turned around and even looks better this morning and I added more meds to his tank. I'm so curious if that hurts as bad as it looks and will he lose that eye or can it possibly go back to normal?


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

I'm guessing he's going to lose it it if he survives.


Man, i've never had anything like this happen from using EM. I've used it quite a few times too. Like audio said, something was lying in wait.

I hope everything works out OK.


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

nonconductive said:


> I'm guessing he's going to lose it it if he survives.
> 
> 
> Man, i've never had anything like this happen from using EM. I've used it quite a few times too. Like audio said, something was lying in wait.
> ...


agreed. EM was fine in my tanks as well. and the one tank didnt even have a proper filter. 

sorry about the rummy! when they are healthy they are magnificent fish!


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

This tank is so old it's no telling what the heck is growing in that old Flourite!

The UPS man came and I've got some new toy to play with today








I broke it down and put back together and it was pretty clean








I guess I need to go to Ideal's site and read up on this Vernier Option, I though it was a fine adjustment but both knobs turn together and are pretty stiff.









And last but not least is a shot of my old buddy Mr. Sae in his battered condition, he looks pitiful. He did pose really nice for the shot!


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

Nice man. When are you planning on the tank overhaul?


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

My Erythromycin Tx is on day 3 with no obvious changes. That black plaque must be some extremely tenacious true algae and not a cyno-bacterium or at least not a Gram-positive susceptible bacterium. It likes both high and low light areas so I don't think a blackout would do any good and would only harm my plants.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

cableguy69846 said:


> Nice man. When are you planning on the tank overhaul?


Soon Cable, man your so lucky with a beautiful new baby to play with and love, they are so much fun while you watch all their first time discoveries.



audioaficionado said:


> My Erythromycin Tx is on day 3 with no obvious changes. That black plaque must be some extremely tenacious true algae and not a cyno-bacterium or at least not a Gram-positive susceptible bacterium. It likes both high and low light areas so I don't think a blackout would do any good and would only harm my plants.


Steve mine didn't look any different either and looks like nothing had happened exept when you take your tongs, brush, etc. and knock it loose it doesn't grow back over the next couple of days, keep up the treatments and make absolutely sure.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

Aww poor little fishy. I feel so bad for him. I hope he pulls thru. Looks painful. :icon_sad:


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

150EH said:


> Steve mine didn't look any different either and looks like nothing had happened exept when you take your tongs, brush, etc. and knock it loose it doesn't grow back over the next couple of days, keep up the treatments and make absolutely sure.


Before I started the stuff was hard and rough like sandpaper. The Nerites didn't even dent it and the Otos never touched it. If I used my thumbnail to scrape some off, the Anubis leaf would get damaged in the process.

Come to think about it, the Nerites were the only ones who even tried and they've all died within a month. All 12 of 'em 

I'm letting the ramshorn snails repopulate and see if they can do an adequate job of algae control. At least they don't lay all those ugly white eggs all over my wood.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> Soon Cable, man your so lucky with a beautiful new baby to play with and love, they are so much fun while you watch all their first time discoveries..


You can say that again. I also need to point out that I would rather they are born potty trained. Lol.:hihi:


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Well I got the regulator together and pumping with no leaks at all, the perma seal thing is sweet as you don't have to crank on it so hard but I'll check it daily for a while. The CGA-320 nipple is a little short so I had to tilt the unit a little so the tank valve wouldn't hit the high pressure gauge and the needle valve is sweet with full control over your flow rate, also I have never had a solenoid on my regulator and would set it daily (twice) so that's super convenient.

I also got pretty lucky as this is a Parker IR6000 series and it's hard to say what they price out for but the best I can figure it's around $1,100 so I got real lucky for $65 shipped, however the low pressure gauge does stick a little.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Well the new regulator is like a dream and I can see the consistency is going to pay out quickly, but I'm still dealing with what ever decease I unleashed when I poured the erythromycin into my tank, the SAE looks horrible and I pulled another floating Rummynosed out late last night and fish are so stupid that they try to eat dead sick tissue. Just when I think it's going to turn my way it turns on me, at least the plants are starting to look better.

A before, after, and today, and I was so hoping he had just hit the wall but no he's sick!
















Here he is just pitiful, fins rotting, spots all over his body, and losing his color. I will never use any medication in my tanks again.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

*A. Crispus flower*


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

nice! my apono flowers were always white. what species is it?


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

nonconductive said:


> nice! my apono flowers were always white. what species is it?


Aponogeton crispus as far as I know, it's been in the tank since I started it.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Do you think your SAE got a fungus infection? My wife almost always get yeast after a course of antibiotics. Also the fish have a bacteria normally on them that acts to protect them from other pathogenic bacteria getting established. In either case they need to get their normal bacteria reestablished on them for protection.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

audioaficionado said:


> Do you think your SAE got a fungus infection? My wife almost always get yeast after a course of antibiotics. Also the fish have a bacteria normally on them that acts to protect them from other pathogenic bacteria getting established. In either case they need to get their normal bacteria reestablished on them for protection.


I'm guessing it's bacterial but don't have a clue, I forgot I had a 24 watt Green Killing Machine so I stuck it in the tank. I sent an email to Carl Stromyer at American Aquarium and he replied:

_This appears to be an opportunistic infection that as you noted exposed by the Erythromycin, so finding the exact cause (if possible) would go a long ways in stopping the progression of this infection.
Make sure your aquarium has 0 ammonia, at least some constant mineral cations, as well a correctly installed UV Sterilizer is also strongly suggested_

He also added I should give the fish baths twice daily and dose the tank with Furan 2 and Kanaplex replicating a medication called Spectrogram that is no longer available.

But, I'm not going through all that again like I did with the Flounder and I'm never putting any medications in my tank again. I'm p!ssed because I learned this lesson 7 or 8 years ago and I guess over time I forgot, but one leads to another and before you know it everything is sick or dead, I'm just really mad at my self for putting an old friend (Mr. Sae) into this position as he was beatiful before I started, but if he dies now and takes out the rest of them so be it but this will be the last time I have blood on my hands.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I made sure I had plenty of micros with gH booster and I added 9 teaspoons of aquarium salt to help with electrolytes and their slime coat, with the addition of the UV it should improve the Redox a bit so at least they'll die in good water.


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## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

That stinks about your SAE. I know just what you mean about adding meds or anything that's going to kill off any of the microfauna in the tank. It's something I would avoid as much as possible but I'd have done the same thing and added it if I had been you also. In some cases I think it would be preferable to move the fish to some sort of semi-established QT and just start over with the main tank, but either way you might lose some fish. It's a tough choice.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Jeff5614 said:


> That stinks about your SAE. I know just what you mean about adding meds or anything that's going to kill off any of the microfauna in the tank. It's something I would avoid as much as possible but I'd have done the same thing and added it if I had been you also. In some cases I think it would be preferable to move the fish to some sort of semi-established QT and just start over with the main tank, but either way you might lose some fish. It's a tough choice.


I have saved one Rummynose Tetra from Pop Eye during this same course of mishaps and he is in my nano tank getting Erythomycin daily and getting better, but this SAE is 6 inches and lightening fast and too big for the nano tank, so I have no real choice but to let it play out. also by the time he is slow enough for me to catch it will be to far advanced to even try and save.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

I finished up my 4 day Tx and everyone looks good and healthy. So does the black plaque  However that new marbled pleco looks like he is eating some of it off. Mikey likes it!


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

audioaficionado said:


> I finished up my 4 day Tx and everyone looks good and healthy. So does the black plaque  However that new marbled pleco looks like he is eating some of it off. Mikey likes it!


That's good I think, but fish are worse than dogs and will eat anything, even if it kills them.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Flower update


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

Wow. Very nice flower.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

150EH said:


> That's good I think, but fish are worse than dogs and will eat anything, even if it kills them.


Then plecos make good dogs. Mine are making lace out of the solid black algae and seem happy and healthy so far. Just saw my marbled sailfin stuck to the back glass with a huge black rope coming out his exit orifice. If they both keep this up, my anubis will start looking good again. Also got a rubber-lipped pleco.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Wow, nice flower. it looks just like A. longifolias flower too. Those are the only two ive seen that are purple. I burnt mine on the lights, otherwise they propagate easy. As far as your Co2, first off AWESOME! Second, I would do a good cleaning, it will help you to tell what its doing for you. Third, FTS!!!


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

jkan0228 said:


> Wow. Very nice flower.


Thank you, It has grown a bud several times lately but this is the first time it has mad it to a flower.



audioaficionado said:


> Then plecos make good dogs. Mine are making lace out of the solid black algae and seem happy and healthy so far. Just saw my marbled sailfin stuck to the back glass with a huge black rope coming out his exit orifice. If they both keep this up, my anubis will start looking good again. Also got a rubber-lipped pleco.


Good for you Steve and I hope they keep it up, I think my tank is better over all too and there was just no avoiding this without a full tare down. This means some photos on your journal, doh.



chad320 said:


> Wow, nice flower. it looks just like A. longifolias flower too. Those are the only two ive seen that are purple. I burnt mine on the lights, otherwise they propagate easy. As far as your Co2, first off AWESOME! Second, I would do a good cleaning, it will help you to tell what its doing for you. Third, FTS!!!


Thanks and it could be but AP.com labeled it crispus but that doesn't mean it is so. It sucks when you lose a bud, I lost 2 others this year. They are easy and I would like my hand on the A. crispus 'red' , it's flower is similar but only singular. I like the CO2 also and I did remove all the leaves that were heavy with BBA, I used a 33% mix of Excel on my driftwood during a water change only dosing the exposed areas and I've been dosing 30 ml daily to put the brakes on the BBA along with a mountain dew drop checker. I'll give you the FTS after a couple more tweeks I'm working on but until then.....


The Daily Flower update, it's 2.5 inches tall with little yellow flowers if you use Ctrl +


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## dantra (May 25, 2007)

That's beautiful, I love the color.

Dan


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

dantra said:


> That's beautiful, I love the color.
> 
> Dan


Thanks Dan!


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I've been looking around at Apons to see if I indeed have a crispus, I've see single and double flowers on several species so that means very little in the ID, mine does have a wavy leaf and the tips are rounded, also if the leaf is 15 inches long it is proceeded by an equal amount of stem.


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## rockwood (Jun 19, 2010)

Hey EH, I know you've been tossing around the idea of Aquasoil so I figured you _might_ know.... Any idea when ADG is getting its next shipment of AS in?

Have you thought about any other alternatives. I _really_ want something as effective as AS in my tank but looking at around $250-$300 for substrate really makes me cringe.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

No not really, I've been looking at AFA for Amazonia in 9 liter bags at $28 each but they are out of stock and should get more by the end of this month, There are some other soils that are OK but none that perform like AS, so I'll wait. This guy used Netlea's substrate but I have never heard of it and I'm also not too impressed with the growth in his tank, the rest are just high CEC soils like Flourite and I want something better.

My tank is 8 square feet of floor space so I'm thinking 4 bags will get me 3 inches of substrate, I might get 5 just in case but I would like to use it on a grow out tank, I'm hoping it's around $175 or less.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

That flower is awesome. Now I wish I would have kept at least one of my apons.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

You need a big tall tank if you want apons to reach their full potential.

Three weeks from Aponogeton ulvaceus bulb planting in my puny 12" deep 45tall tank LOL.










It was flowering in two weeks. Had white blossoms shaped just like yours.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

audioaficionado said:


> You need a big tall tank if you want apons to reach their full potential.


That is very true. I wish I would not have sold my 45 gallon now. *facepalm*


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

cableguy69846 said:


> That is very true. I wish I would not have sold my 45 gallon now. *facepalm*


Even a 45 is too small. You need at least a 2' deep x 2' tall. I wish I could afford one right now, but I'll have to be patient and keep cruising CL until I score one.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

audioaficionado said:


> Even a 45 is too small. You need at least a 2' deep x 2' tall. I wish I could afford one right now, but I'll have to be patient and keep cruising CL until I score one.


Lol. I know that feeling. I need to find some big tubs too. I have a mad scientist idea for the back yard this summer.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

The ulvaceus has those wide curly leaves so it takes up a lot of space, mine is on the lean side compared, but what really cool is they just up and disappear every once and a while and change the whole look of your tank. Over all your right because even in 30 inches the leave hit the surface and the flower stems are 2 to 5 feet longer, but it would be so cool to be walking along a stream bank and see a couple hundred of these flowers floating all at once.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Ah, a new page means new pics ( I set my page for 40 posts per page ) so the nightly edition of the daily flower update.










Now this photo I was going to enter in the fish area for an ID, but I give you a clue, they have red noses, black and white tails, and I can kill them fast than I buy them. Ah you got it, a Rummy nose in bloom! I woke up and said what the _ _ _ _ is that growing in the corner.









And here is a shot titled "Algae at Night" I got my moon lights back in order and even though they are very dim I like having them in the lighting cycle.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

:icon_eek: Must. Have. MOONLIGHTS!


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

cableguy69846 said:


> Lol. I know that feeling. I need to find some big tubs too. I have a mad scientist idea for the back yard this summer.


Walmart is selling some nice large 15 gal transparent poly storage tubs for $8. Make great emerged plant grow out tanks. Just get some of those aluminum bell shaped clamp on lamps and put 23W CFL in them for lighting. Lay the lights right on top of the transparent tub lids.



150EH said:


> No not really, I've been looking at AFA for Amazonia in 9 liter bags at $28 each but they are out of stock and should get more by the end of this month, There are some other soils that are OK but none that perform like AS, so I'll wait. This guy used Netlea's substrate but I have never heard of it and I'm also not too impressed with the growth in his tank, the rest are just high CEC soils like Flourite and I want something better.
> 
> My tank is 8 square feet of floor space so I'm thinking 4 bags will get me 3 inches of substrate, I might get 5 just in case but I would like to use it on a grow out tank, I'm hoping it's around $175 or less.


If you calculate those other supposedly cheaper aqua soils, you'll find they are just as expensive/L as the read deal AS new. It's not the weight you need to figure, but the volume you need to account for.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

audioaficionado said:


> Walmart is selling some nice large 15 gal transparent poly storage tubs for $8. Make great emerged plant grow out tanks. Just get some of those aluminum bell shaped clamp on lamps and put 23W CFL in them for lighting. Lay the lights right on top of the transparent tub lids.


You mean like this? The smaller container has two of the lights you mentioned with 20watt spiral CFL bulbs in them. They work great. A couple of my tanks use them too.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

cableguy69846 said:


> :icon_eek: Must. Have. MOONLIGHTS!


If you ever want to add them to a light fixture Catalina Aquariums has a string of 8 blue LED's already wired up for $20 and with a dimmer for $42 ish and you can use and 12V transformer, I run mine on a 12V 150ma without the dimmer and it works great. I keep transformers form every low voltage item I've ever owned, they can come in handy.

They are not very bright and to see them good the room needs to be dark but I like the way they look and it's more natural for the fish to have some low light at night.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

audioaficionado said:


> If you calculate those other supposedly cheaper aqua soils, you'll find they are just as expensive/L as the read deal AS new. It's not the weight you need to figure, but the volume you need to account for.


I'm waiting for the AS because I've seen the results but the Netlea for example didn't seem to even nurish the plants at all and it seemed my low tech nano with Fluval Stratum was growing just as well or maybe better.


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Oct 8, 2009)

150EH said:


> If you ever want to add them to a light fixture Catalina Aquariums has a string of 8 blue LED's already wired up for $20 and with a dimmer for $42 ish and you can use and 12V transformer, I run mine on a 12V 150ma without the dimmer and it works great. I keep transformers form every low voltage item I've ever owned, they can come in handy.
> 
> They are not very bright and to see them good the room needs to be dark but I like the way they look and it's more natural for the fish to have some low light at night.


I really like the Catalina moonlights as well -- I've tried plenty of other moonlight options over the years from store-bought moonlight setups to DIY LED Christmas lights and everything I tried was always too bright or too dark. The Catalina moonlights are a perfect subtle light for night time viewing.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> If you ever want to add them to a light fixture Catalina Aquariums has a string of 8 blue LED's already wired up for $20 and with a dimmer for $42 ish and you can use and 12V transformer, I run mine on a 12V 150ma without the dimmer and it works great. I keep transformers form every low voltage item I've ever owned, they can come in handy.
> 
> They are not very bright and to see them good the room needs to be dark but I like the way they look and it's more natural for the fish to have some low light at night.


I am wondering how bright that would be on a 20 high though. It might be overkill.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I doubt it but you could alway buy the dimmer if you are worried, The photo was a 20 second exposure so it's brighter than the real thing. Also it depends on what the light is reflecting off of like a mass of H. polysprma leaves reflect a lot but if it's just hitting the substrate it's not so bright. Another thing is you don't have to use all eight on a single tank, you could make a temporary hook up with all eight and say that's twice as bright as I would like, then try 4, etc., I just breakout the little propane soldering torch, some flux, solider, and shrink tube and you look like a pro.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

This will be the last installment of the Daily Flower Update, this flower is pretty impressive in size with 3/4 inch below the surface and 3 inches above.









I tried to use my remote flash trigger for some off camera flash, these are my 2 best shots and they need a bit of work.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Your pics are looking pretty close to awesomeness!!!! Wow, I really need to get a better camera.  I love all of the detail it shows! Are your rummies holding on for you?


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I lost 5 or 6 in total but I knew in advance which ones would go, after the meds some of them got two white spots just behind their heads on the upper back, so it should be over, knock on wood.

The tank is looking better too and I've been cutting out a lot of melting leaves, BBA leaves, etc. tomorrow I will re-arrange a little and tank some photos if all goes well.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> I doubt it but you could alway buy the dimmer if you are worried, The photo was a 20 second exposure so it's brighter than the real thing. Also it depends on what the light is reflecting off of like a mass of H. polysprma leaves reflect a lot but if it's just hitting the substrate it's not so bright. Another thing is you don't have to use all eight on a single tank, you could make a temporary hook up with all eight and say that's twice as bright as I would like, then try 4, etc., I just breakout the little propane soldering torch, some flux, solider, and shrink tube and you look like a pro.


Hmmm. Might be worth a shot when I get the money.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Well I changed things up a little today but it's not quite finished so I'll get some pics up tomorrow.

I know I said no more flower but it was turning yellow, so this is the last one because I cut it off anyway.










This Rummy has been in the hospital for 10 days getting a full dose of Erythromycin everyday, he looks better but should I move him back to the 150 because I want my nano tank back for 10 Sakura Fire Red Shrimp, let me know what you think.

Before, OOOOuch......after doesn't look painful but he is definitely not normal and that's Ok if he doesn't make his tank mates sick.















I'm showing this angle so you can see it's not bulging anymore.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

*Mini Re-Scape*

It's been a while since I could really think about doing anything to improve my tank but the day has come finally. Please excuse the reflections and the temporary UV.

Before









After









I know it's hard to tell but I've removed the column of Rotala and spread it over a larger area in the left rear, it needs some time to grow in, I also split my Vesuvius into 3 plants to form a little wall which also needs to grow in, plus I removed the column of Macandra and place a portion in the front left that I want to keep trimmed and taller plantings back by the filter intake. I also got rid of that stupid driftwood that was wedged in the upper left, I used all the mosses on another piece an tilted it down and away from the main DW stump so it looks like a root covered with moss, plus I can remove it to clean and trim. I moved a bunch of other stuff to but it just needs some time to fill in and recover from all the torture.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Wow, for all of the problems youve been describing, I think your tank looks fantastic!


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Thanks Chad and it is look better but if you dive in too deep you'll see I'm still working on some algae, but it is getting there.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I got my Nano (hospital) tank cleaned up and ready for 10 Sakura Fire Red Shrimp I'll get Saturday at our club meeting, we have aranged a group buy with Rachael and one of our members will drive up to get it and it's a lot of driving IMO, but thanks so much Jim.

Here's a photo after the clean and a male Cherry Barb too.


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## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

Nice photo of the Cherry Barb! Truly an under-appreciated fish, IMO. No worries on the algae, Bud....it will go away as soon as you get enough plant mass in there to outcompete it and as the tank matures. Then, it should just be occasional spot algae. What types of algae are you having issues with right now?


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Nada, it's leaving as we speak. Thanks on the photo comment, I have nine Cherry Barbs and they are definately active fish and colorful.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

That might be one of my algae problems. Too little active plant biomass for the light levels. If you want to feel better, compare your tank to mine. Yours looks great from my house.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Your just need a cash injection just like mine but it wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be, but we would both benefit from some AS and your tank has to be hard to keep the flow circulating and it seemed like under the Korillia the problem was worse, I set that pump right above the substrate.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

Beautiful tank!


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Thank you sundragon.


I just hacked out most of my Hygrophila corymbosa angustifolia and I think I like it better, maybe I should just go ahead and reomve it all together.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

I just compared the two images before/after. You can see the driftwood better and it looks a little less "busy" around that sweet looking crypt. with the long hammered leaves. What is that BTW, is it crypt. balansae?


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## kwheeler91 (May 26, 2009)

That wood is BA


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

sundragon said:


> I just compared the two images before/after. You can see the driftwood better and it looks a little less "busy" around that sweet looking crypt. with the long hammered leaves. What is that BTW, is it crypt. balansae?


I think your talking about the Aponogeton crispus in the center, I do have balansae in the back left, but I agree it does look less busy and with such a large pice of wood I do need to try and fill every inch with plants.



kwheeler91 said:


> That wood is BA


Thanks!


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

The water looks really clear lately and there is a good reason, I've placed a 100 ml bag of Purigen in one of my filters and so far I like the effect.

I also double dosed Excel last week for 6 days and now that another 4 days have past I can see the result and it looks like all the hair type algae has turned white and is dead for sure, the DW is slowly loosing it's green coloring and is almost brown again, and last the BBA has lost it's dark almost black color and is a pale green to whitish for the most part. The reason I wanted to post this info is I normally do a 15 day Excel treatment and by the end of it most of my crypts are melting and the S. porto velho turn into Excel junkies and don't like when it's no longer added, so 6 days is enough and then just relax and watch the algae die up to a week after you have stopped dosing the Excel.

We have a club meeting today so I get shrimp for the nano and hopefully some other goodies.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

150EH said:


> I think your talking about the Aponogeton crispus in the center, I do have balansae in the back left, but I agree it does look less busy and with such a large pice of wood I do need to try and fill every inch with plants.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks!


Yup, I want some of that! It's beautiful  I think giving a little space lets the eye see the different leaves and appreciate the texture and color differences between the plants. A red behind that would make it pop by contrast. The leaves, however, enhance the wood. My eyes better see the knots and sinew of the wood - before I wouldn't have noticed it as much.

Have you thought of putting down some foreground that makes a carpet?


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

150EH said:


> The water looks really clear lately and there is a good reason, I've placed a 100 ml bag of Purigen in one of my filters and so far I like the effect.
> 
> I also double dosed Excel last week for 6 days and now that another 4 days have past I can see the result and it looks like all the hair type algae has turned white and is dead for sure, the DW is slowly loosing it's green coloring and is almost brown again, and last the BBA has lost it's dark almost black color and is a pale green to whitish for the most part. The reason I wanted to post this info is I normally do a 15 day Excel treatment and by the end of it most of my crypts are melting and the S. porto velho turn into Excel junkies and don't like when it's no longer added, so 6 days is enough and then just relax and watch the algae die up to a week after you have stopped dosing the Excel.
> 
> We have a club meeting today so I get shrimp for the nano and hopefully some other goodies.


I love Purigen, 2 bags in the Fluval 406. It polishes the water and soaks up nitrates. 

I dose Excel on a weekly basis, not as much for the CO2 but to help kill off excess algae. I spot treated some on a plant in the old tank and it melted both  Be careful.


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## Thark (Feb 19, 2012)

When looking to set up my new aquarium, this was the first thread I found and the one that led me to these forums. I really enjoyed reading all about your tank and what you've done. I like the plants and am impressed with how fast they seem to grow.

I think it was quite a coincidence that you happened along the little thread I started and threw up a comment. I really appreciated it, and thought it was cool since I've been reading about your tank for a few weeks now.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Thanks Thark and I'm glad you enjoyed it and I learned something from you too, a substrate that new to me, the Turface.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

Great meeting you on Saturday at the GWAPA meeting!


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

It was nice meeting you also, was that your first gwapa meet? It was a rather small auction and sometimes there are so many plants it will take 2 or 3 hours but thank god it was a short one, but I did have fun and I always like to see other peoples tanks and Judi's were very nice.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

*GWAPA goodies*

I got a couple of new plants at our club meeting, this one is Nesaea pedicellata 'golden' and is very bright in color









I also got some Creeping Jenny/Lysimachia nummularia v. 'aurea' and it is just as bright.









I also picked up a replacement C. Nurii but couldn't get all the roots in the substrate. Not my best camera work either.









and the FTS, I think I'm going to pull all that Hygrophila corymbosa angustifolia out of the background and I removed the screen material from my inlet strainer too so bigger pieces of debris would get sucked up by the filter, man it was hard to reach.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I forgot to mention, I'm going to pick up a 10 gallon Metaframe tonight, it doesn't have a hood or light but I'll have to keep an eye out, like my Rummy.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

:hihi: like my rummy  Nice pick up on the plants. N. golden like MgSo4 or Epsom salt added to the water or the tops will start to get curly on you. And I would try to replant your nurii. For as long as those things take to grow in, I would make sure you like its position. I am really diggin the looks of this tank!


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I use a teaspoon of MgSO4 in my micro mix, it's kind of a strange plant and I always thought it was a straight growing stem from photos but it's a little different, as for the nurii I hear ya but it's just 5 hair like roots and it had a good set of roots, plus it has already melted 2 leaves adjusting to my water parameters so I'm scared to look in it's direction.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

The tank looks fantastic! I would have bid on a few more things had I known what they looked like based on their scientific name 

The C. nurii looks nice! The melt is normal, don't they grow back?


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

Tank looks good man. Those plants are killer. Now I think I need to get a C. nurii too. I want to be one of the cool kids.:hihi:

What are you going to do with the metaframe tank?


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

absolutely stunning tank 150EH! nice work :thumbsup:


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

sundragon said:


> The tank looks fantastic! I would have bid on a few more things had I known what they looked like based on their scientific name
> 
> The C. nurii looks nice! The melt is normal, don't they grow back?


Yes, but at a snails pace and much slower than other crypts, I think it was a few years back when they were brought into this market the first owner waited 8 months for the plant to put out plantlets, the came tissue culture, etc. Thanks for the compliment too!



cableguy69846 said:


> Tank looks good man. Those plants are killer. Now I think I need to get a C. nurii too. I want to be one of the cool kids.:hihi:
> 
> What are you going to do with the metaframe tank?


The bright green plants are like little night lights in the Nano but I like them in both, thanks for the compliment and I'm working hard to make it better.

I called and told they guy I wasn't comming for the Metaframe, it was a 10 G and he wanted $30 but it was an hour and 15 minutes away with 2 tolls so the price to me is more like $65. I had a CL 20 G meta with the light, hood, & stand for $35 last week but someone beat me too it but I love the retro look.



salmon said:


> absolutely stunning tank 150EH! nice work :thumbsup:


Thank you very much!


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

are the red fish, that are not rummy nose tetra - your barbs?


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Yes, these are the Cherry Barbs and the female is up top with the lighter red, if you buy some get 2 female for every male, the males are aggressive breeders and will chase the females to death so there need to be enough females to create confusion. But the males get super red when doing the breeding chase and flash their fins a lot, it's fun to watch.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

150EH said:


> Yes, these are the Cherry Barbs and the female is up top with the lighter red, if you buy some get 2 female for every male, the males are aggressive breeders and will chase the females to death so there need to be enough females to create confusion. But the males get super red when doing the breeding chase and flash their fins a lot, it's fun to watch.


LOL, sounds like my friends  Your picture is fantastic, it looks like stock photography! You should sell it the to fish retailers for their ads.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> The bright green plants are like little night lights in the Nano but I like them in both, thanks for the compliment and I'm working hard to make it better.
> 
> I called and told they guy I wasn't comming for the Metaframe, it was a 10 G and he wanted $30 but it was an hour and 15 minutes away with 2 tolls so the price to me is more like $65. I had a CL 20 G meta with the light, hood, & stand for $35 last week but someone beat me too it but I love the retro look.


I am thinking of pulling a page out of Non-c's book and just painting the frame on a regular tank.:hihi: That sucks that you didn't get it though.


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

cableguy69846 said:


> I am thinking of pulling a page out of Non-c's book and just painting the frame on a regular tank.:hihi: That sucks that you didn't get it though.


it works, just dont bump it with anything!

those are some super red cherries 150!


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

I wish I still had my 5 & 10 gallon metal frame aquariums I started this hobby with almost 50 years ago.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I had another 20 gallon Metaframe lined up but the person went to UPS and wanted it double boxed, packing peanuts, bubble wrap, etc. with insurance for $167 but the tanks is $35, I told them other are selling the tank for $39.99 with free USPS economy shipping, but they might crunch up some news paper instead, arg.

I did the shipping at USPS.gov and got 12.33 parcel post or 15.83 priority mail?


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I guess I've seen the first casualty from removing the screen from the filter inlet strainer, the holes are so big that a missing Chili Rasbora would fit right through and get sucked up by a filter, so I'll take a look with a flash light but that all I can do.


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## ChadRamsey (Nov 3, 2011)

nice its looking good.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

150EH said:


> I guess I've seen the first casualty from removing the screen from the filter inlet strainer, the holes are so big that a missing Chili Rasbora would fit right through and get sucked up by a filter, so I'll take a look with a flash light but that all I can do.


 They are tiny... I saw some at Judi's last Saturday - I wonder if you can get a small mesh plastic cloth to just cover the end.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I'm not sure he went into the filter after I checked there was nothing, but he could have fallen prey to any larger fish and this is not the first one to disappear, but I want it open for any loose moss or plant debris. Thanks for the suggestion but it was covered and I was getting a build up of decaying organics.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

150EH said:


> I guess I've seen the first casualty from removing the screen from the filter inlet strainer, the holes are so big that a missing Chili Rasbora would fit right through and get sucked up by a filter, so I'll take a look with a flash light but that all I can do.


I found this Chili Rasbora today while doing routine filter maintenance, I make it a habit to use a strainer when emptying the water from my filters, I sit it in a large stainless steel bowl and it fills with water to keep any fauna alive. There he was barely noticeable from the top view and as I pulled the strainer out of the water he started flipping all over the place but I got him back in the tank. Later I looked to see if he was hanging with the other Chili's but he was hiding and I'm guessing after a couple weeks in the filter the lights seemed really bright so I hope to see him tomorrow and pray he stays clear of the filter intake.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

You gotta stop using the turbo charged FX-5 LOL 


Sent from my iPhone using Carrier pigeon.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I still haven't seen him in the tank?

Well I finally pulled my RO/DI unit out of the box, it has been sitting in my garage since last August or very close to August, but it's time for the install as my kH readings have been off the chart and only God knows what else might be in the water down here. It's a BRS 6 stage deluxe with the booster pump and I have a 55 gallon holding tank so I just need to plumb all this into the tank.









On a separate note my Cherry Barbs are mating as usual but they were just doing the mating rub all day and their color are spectacular with the male primping and fins erect, I'm sorry but I just couldn't get a clean shot of them tangled in the love rub as the movements are just too fast and they all were blurred, but here's one with Pop in pursuit.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Ummm... :fish: pr0nz :icon_mrgr


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

You should offer your barb pics as stock photos for online resellers. 

That RO unit looks pimped!


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## rockwood (Jun 19, 2010)

I WISH I had a house already so I could go RO/DI with my water. What are you doing with the waste water? 

My roommate and I were discussing how we would handle the waste when I get a place. Most likely I'll have a holding tank for the good stuff and the waste. The waste will be plumbed in on the line that feeds the hot water heater. When the tank has water in it, it will run through the heater. Then when it gets low enough, a float switch will activate a PLC controller that will flip the feed over to the main line from the water main. 

Pretty cool idea. The water will be a little hard but for showers and such that's not a big deal. If I'm running a tank heater there's a softening effect with water being heated in the presence of copper anyways. I'm not sure how it will work in a tankless configuration though.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

THAT is a sick RO/DI unit. I wish I had a place too. They are SO hard to run but pay off so well. Now to master the timer for it?


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Our municipal water supply is great. We don't need any R/O water unless we want DI. Your plants and fish are looking great Tim. Looking forward to seeing you hook up your R/O system.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Thanks everybody, I think I'll just have the waste water drain into the front lawn and flower beds unless it becomes a problem with staining due to iron, but BRS also has a 150 gpd upgrade that cuts your waste in half but I'll have to wait and see but I have a few options for water disposal. If I can get a good deal on a holding tank I might capture the waste and use it in a sprinkler system for the mulch beds and lawn but I'm trying not to get too crazy and still have a use for the water.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Get any time to work on your R/O system?


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Not yet Steve and it's still sitting on my work bench but I have mowed the grass 4 times. Here a couple of photos that are so so and don't look too close or you'll see all my algae.

FTS 4-12-12









Najas is out of hand if you can see it.









My old buddy the SAE made it after being ill and I'm so happy that he did after 6 years I was really mad that I might kill him trying to get rid of BGA.
Before 








Now









And my S. porto velho is finally growing good but no algae free


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

Looks good man.:icon_smil


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Thanks Cable, today I did maintenance on my left side filter and I had a bad day, I swear when I have a bad day I make it a really bad one but this is so dumb it's funny. I opened the filter and cleaned it lightly and I'm almost done and it's getting filled with water so I don't have to prime it, when I drop it and break the lever off of the outlet quick disconnect, so I go get a small screw driver and turn it manually, no biggy. I hook it up and it doesn't sound right and locks up, when I dropped it the whole impeller area came disassembled plus I forgot to put the top strainer back in the canister, it was just laying in the sink like an extra part, so I fixed all that and got it done finally but I'm afraid to touch anything else today.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

I didn't break my canister latch, but I get poked in the left eye with a 30 gauge needle today. Gotta wear a patch most of the rest of the day. Your tank is looking good from my house. Mine isn't perfect either, but it's better than it was before I got 3 plecos.


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## thesawguy (Dec 26, 2011)

What is this fish?







[/QUOTE]


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

150EH said:


> Thanks Cable, today I did maintenance on my left side filter and I had a bad day, I swear when I have a bad day I make it a really bad one but this is so dumb it's funny. I opened the filter and cleaned it lightly and I'm almost done and it's getting filled with water so I don't have to prime it, when I drop it and break the lever off of the outlet quick disconnect, so I go get a small screw driver and turn it manually, no biggy. I hook it up and it doesn't sound right and locks up, when I dropped it the whole impeller area came disassembled plus I forgot to put the top strainer back in the canister, it was just laying in the sink like an extra part, so I fixed all that and got it done finally but I'm afraid to touch anything else today.


I have bad days like that... It makes me afraid to touch anything for fear of breaking it.

The tank and fish all look great!


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Thanks everybody!!

The fish is a Pelvicachromis sacrimontis or Green Kribensis, that photo is the male and doesn't show his color very well, so here's another with a female and a old Rainbow Krib. I think the other photo was taken when only the 10K/420 bulb was on and it's very blue.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> Thanks Cable, today I did maintenance on my left side filter and I had a bad day, I swear when I have a bad day I make it a really bad one but this is so dumb it's funny. I opened the filter and cleaned it lightly and I'm almost done and it's getting filled with water so I don't have to prime it, when I drop it and break the lever off of the outlet quick disconnect, so I go get a small screw driver and turn it manually, no biggy. I hook it up and it doesn't sound right and locks up, when I dropped it the whole impeller area came disassembled plus I forgot to put the top strainer back in the canister, it was just laying in the sink like an extra part, so I fixed all that and got it done finally but I'm afraid to touch anything else today.


Lol. I hate days like that. Usually on my bad days, I end up draining a tank partially on the floor.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I finally got my RO unit mounted to the garage wall and some of the lines hooked up but not the supply line, I'm also working on my tank drain to the front yard flower beds, I'll post some photos later as the forum is moving slow today and I'm tierd of watching the little wheel spin while I wait for a page to load.

After I get this done I won't be able to drain my tank on the floor anymore, knock on wood.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

I'm thinking of going with a sump next build. It all depends on how much the system ends up costing. An inexpensive E-bay Chinese canister that works will cost less than a C note while a decent sump/pump/overflow plumbing is considerably more.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

150EH said:


> I finally got my RO unit mounted to the garage wall and some of the lines hooked up but not the supply line, I'm also working on my tank drain to the front yard flower beds, I'll post some photos later as the forum is moving slow today and I'm tierd of watching the little wheel spin while I wait for a page to load.
> 
> After I get this done I won't be able to drain my tank on the floor anymore, knock on wood.


Advantage of RO water that you can specifically control the GH/KH, and it's pure?


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## philemon716 (Aug 14, 2011)

My favorite thread on this site. Enjoy all the updates. 

How is your recovering popped-eye rummy doing? Glad to see Mr.SAE back to health.


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## Marconis (Nov 8, 2010)

Great pictures. Your plants are so healthy!


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

philemon716 said:


> My favorite thread on this site. Enjoy all the updates.
> 
> How is your recovering popped-eye rummy doing? Glad to see Mr.SAE back to health.


He didn't make it and died after he made it back into the big tank with his school, they may have picked on him but he was dead one day later after making it out of quarantine. Really in all my efforts the SAE is the only fish I have saved after being quite sick.



Marconis said:


> Great pictures. Your plants are so healthy!


Thanks, they look great from a distance.



audioaficionado said:


> I'm thinking of going with a sump next build. It all depends on how much the system ends up costing. An inexpensive E-bay Chinese canister that works will cost less than a C note while a decent sump/pump/overflow plumbing is considerably more.


I would love to do a sump but they are expensive even if you price out the acrylic alone and do the drilling and assembly they are quite expensive but I love Craig's setup.


I got my drain installed so all I have to do is turn a valve to drain off waste water from the tank but for now I still have to use the Python hose to fill the tank. I'm also getting closer to the install of my RO/DI unit, all I need is 2 lenths of 3/4" CPVC, a heater, and 10' of red 1/4 line to feed the system so I'm very close.


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## rockwood (Jun 19, 2010)

150EH said:


> I'm also getting closer to the install of my RO/DI unit, all I need is 2 lenths of 3/4" CPVC, a heater, and 10' of red 1/4 line to feed the system so I'm very close.


Sounds like you need a quick trip to Lowes/Home Depot for some Pex line and CPVC!


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

150EH said:


> I would love to do a sump but they are expensive even if you price out the acrylic alone and do the drilling and assembly they are quite expensive but I love Craig's setup.


I'm going to get a cheap 30-40gal CL glass tank and make my own. No drillin' as everything will go inside. The most expensive component will be the Danner mag pump. Every thing else will be DIY. Those danners are over a C note even if you score one online.

Craig's set up is rockin'!


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Well today is water change day for this 150 and the new drain is more than spectacular as it drained 65 gallons of water in only 9 minutes with my water draining through the filter inlet screen which is huge at 6.5" x 1" with 1" cpvc, then under the tank it is reduced to 3/4" cpvc and is no more than a 8' run to get outside of the house. I was going to take a photo (boring) of the water flow but it was dropping so fast I didn't dare leave the tank, so it is a pain to do all this plumbing and it's moderately expensive, but after I finish the RO unit we are talking a 65 gallon water change, drain and fill in less than 30 minutes and this makes it worth the effort.

I also got my heater ordered with a little help from Craig, I liked the setup he used in his sump with the heaters (300 watt Ebo-Jager) attached via a bulk head adapter so the cord and dial is not submerged and even though they say fully submersible I don't like to use them that way and this is very neat, easy to adjust the temperature without getting wet, and I can position it low in my holding tank so the hot water rises and make a little convection in the tank to get all the water heated, btw the company that makes the adapter is Jehmco and they have excellent pricing on heaters and it was the only place that had this type of adapter that I could find.

I really can't wait to finish getting this RO unit installed and see the difference in water quality, also my aquarium software (Aquarix) will tell me how much RO water to use and how much tap water to use to get the desired hardness, etc. so it should be a bit of fun getting to use all the features and see the result. Plus if I want now would be the time to start a small reef tank, from what I've read you gotta have RO to maintain a good reef tank, and just thinking of all the colors is giving me a little flashback.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I got some more work done today on my RO system but I'm still waiting for the heater and a couple of other misc parts before I can hook up the supply line and get the water flowing through this thing, but for now here's my progress.

Some of these photos are just ugly, here's the outlet into the front lawn and after I get it caulked and painted it should blend in well, plus that Nandina hides it pretty good. On the other side of this wall sits my tank and to the left is the drain and to the right the RO unit and holding tank.
















This is the pump (Rio 10HF) which delivers 660 gph at 1 foot of head pressure but I will be using it with about 6 feet oh head pressure which will slow it to 190 gph, so it should take 17 minutes to pump 50 gallons of water into my tank and I'll add another 7 to 15 gallons of tap water to get the hardness right.
















Here's the tank all plumbed in, I think it turned out OK and I did have over 6 months to think about the layout.









I had to cut a hole 2.5" x 4.5" to get the pump and heater into the tank and it also has a float to stop the fill, but it is in my garage so there are insects, chemicals, and lots of dust from my experiments so I needed the tank to be sealed fairly well. I used a scape piece of 1/8" Plexiglas and just used a razor and straight edge to make the cuts then I cleaned it up with the Dremmel, applied a border of 1/4" weather stripping foam and taped it with a high quality duct tape and it's sealed pretty good, the blue tube is just a vent and you would be very surprised at how much pressure can build in one of these tanks just from a rise in temperature. The valve will keep the wast water out of the holding tank but will need to be opened to fill the tank inside of the house.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

I've got one of those Python/Aqueon sink faucet water changers. Takes forever to suck it out and the sink can't drain fast enough so I have to slow it down towards the end which reduces the venturi even more. Fills pretty quick. Still it beats the bucket brigade. Nowhere to set up a nice drain system like yours. I suppose I can just run a hose out the front door in warmer weather LOL.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I did that for a while but it went out a window, still the Python is way more restricted and it takes longer, before the new setup my water changes were taking almost 90 minutes so I love the new way of doing things. Also we are on septic in a very wet area and with a pump out costing $250 each now we don't like the water going into the septic, plus why not use that nice fertilized water to it's full potential.


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## rockwood (Jun 19, 2010)

A lot of places on sewer have sewer fees too (we have them here) so if you can run excess water off its always a good thing. My 75g is on the second floor so I run the python out the window and into the gutter to drain it 

BTW, very jelly of the RO/DI set up. I can't wait until I can set one up and keep all the super soft water plants and start a small reef.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Grey water is great to help irrigate the yard. I used to dump the buckets of tank water in the planter beds and they did seem to perk up more than just what hose water could do.

My municipal water is very soft already, so I don't need R/O water unless I was feeding a 1 meg or better DI resin unit. I always like to add GH booster after water changes. Nice thing about your tank is that you can predose any minerals right into it before you use it. You can even set up a small mixer motor with mixing prop on top.

If I ever move to a nicer house, I'll try and set up premixing tanks to automate the water changes like 10% per day and auto mineral/fert dosing as well.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

audioaficionado said:


> Grey water is great to help irrigate the yard. I used to dump the buckets of tank water in the planter beds and they did seem to perk up more than just what hose water could do.


150 - RODI!!! RODI!!!! SWEET!!

Steve - Dump the old fish water in the veggie garden and watch what happens. I had tomatoes the size of 16" softballs last year.:icon_eek:


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Great idea, but I'm not dragging several 40# buckets of water out the front door and around to the back yard every week.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

CPVC and a small drill bit, just cap one end and add pipe thread to hose thread adapter to the other end, then just connect your Python and water the garden. We are very lucky hear to have septic and avoid all the extra taxes, we also live on a private road beyond the county maintenance so our taxes are very low ($1,400 per year) while our neighbors across the creek have sewer and city water, plus pay for road and water frontage by the foot so their yearly bill is more like 5k to 7k, but that's part of the reason I liked this place plus the septic doesn't allow anyone to build so we are very remote while the surrounding area continues to grow. 

I do use the tank water on house plants and they grow like crazy, especially our Cacti after a long winter drought I'll saturate the planters and they will literally grow several inches in just a couple of weeks but they only get watered 4 or 5 times per year.

The one thing about the RO/DI waste water is it will have a concentrate of iron and may yellow the lawn or blue stone in the driveway, we have to be carefully having a stucco exterior because our water reacts with concrete and makes a rust stain, so if you setup a sprinkler and the water hits the house everything is yellowish brown the next day.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I got my heater and bulkhead form Jehmco today and I'm very impressed with the service, quality, and prices. They put the heater and bulkhead together so all I have to do is cut the hole and make the installation, I also got some filter pad similar to Eheim's fine pad and for $4.50 I got 2 2217 pads and 20 pads for my RedSea Nano filter, and to top off the whole thing they only charged $6.05 for shipping. I really like these folks but they are a little different as you have to call to place an order but it's nice to be able to talk about what your buying sometimes, especially if it's the first time trying a product but they also have some oddball hard to find items, here's the heater.








Oh, these heaters from Ebo-Jager are really nice with an adjustment ring if the temp is off, shatter proof glass, and an auto shut-off if the water runs dry.
Also here's FTS of the Jungle before it got a trim, I think I had just finished feeding some frozen Brine Shrimp so all the fish are out in front.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I got the drum drilled today and installed the heater and the whole thing went very smooth and the connection felt firm and well sealed. I also sweated in the copper for the water feed and got all the connections made, I did open the valve and fill the copper and no leaks except the packing nut on the valve, but I closed it and called it a day because it was getting late and I'll see if any wet spots occur over night. Tomorrow I'll fill the tank and rinse the filters and this should fill the tank enough to see if anything leaks but I'm not expecting any trouble, then I can pump off this water and start to fill it with pure water, I'll post some pics of the finished setup.

Now I have to get ready and learn the perfect mix of untreated well water and RO, and I'm sure that something will need tweaking beyond that to get the best parameters.


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

Just a question, how good are the rummnoses at schooling?


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Very good, I actually think they are the best schooling fish as they never separate and if they do it's into two large groups that will reform in just a matter of seconds. When feeding it's every man for himself so they look a bit scattered in the photo, also this tank is only 48 inches long but in something longer they would look even better.


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## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

Great looking setup for your change out water and rodi.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Holy wozers ive missed so much I dont even know where to start. Ummm...that plumbing job/holding tank/RO/DI setup is freakin AWESOME!!! I am a bit jealous of it  Your tank is looking great too. I take it you finally overcame your algae issues? What is the plant in the foreground?


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Thanks guys, and it's S. porto velho. I still have tons of algae (not as bad) but I'm just keeping you distracted with equipment but it's been a lot of fun putting it all together now I just need some tanks.

I did pick up a bag of Amazonia for $25 today at the GWAPA auction so I'm so anxious to try it after all these years and I know I'll be hooked.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I actually produced 5 or 6 gallon of RO water late this afternoon but my pressure seems to be low so I got side tracked messing with my well tank but I should have most of the kinks worked out by tomorrow, I can already see things I need to add to make life easier, like valves, etc.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

> I still have tons of algae (not as bad)


You got any plecos? If so what kind and how many? I'm lovin' what my 3 plecos have done in just a couple of months. Still have algae and probably always will. Even Tom Barr admits to some, but aptly deals with it and has an excellent 24/7 clean up crew constantly working on it.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

No I don't have any although I like them, but even the small ones are too large for my taste with 4" being about the smallest I've seen, I tried some Shrimp and a Nerite but eventually my fish just eat them, the Nerite had to be 3/4" and only lasted 10 to 14 days, so the Kribs and Dwarf Chain Loaches need to go before any small cleaners can be added. I am working on the algae by adjusting my lighting and C02 and it's making a difference but I'll make an adjustment and wait 2 or 3 weeks to see the outcome. Years ago I used a split photo period thinking that the tropics always get dark and rainy for and hour in the afternoon and it worked really good, so I should just go back to that.

I got my pressure right on the RO unit, 70 psi and I actually had to reduce it from 90 psi, it seems to be working well so far.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

I have a albino bristle nose, rubber lip/nose and a marbled/spotted sailfin. The first two get up to 5", but the last one gets 18". He sure was small and cute when I got him on impulse at the LFS LOL. They cleaned up that black algae that no one else would touch.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I'm too focused on getting this RO setup figured out to think about much else but I would like a pleco tank one day and I like the Long Finned Albino Bristle Nosed Pleco L144 except the name is too long and I also really like the Queen Arabesque Pleco L260 but so far these two are what I would like in another tank.
















Today I got the pressure right and let the tank fill 5 inches over the bulkhead fitting and no leaks, not a drop. Then I adjusted the pressure cut-off switch so the float would kill the booster pump and water flow quickly, done. Now all I need to make the system complete are 2 more ball valve, one to keep water from running back wards into the drain tube and a second valve that I can use as a faucet, this will work great for filling small buckets and for using the pump that's already in the tank to mix trace minerals if needed, I would like a little larger holding tank if I can find the right deal and those plier type tubing cutters make these changes so easy.

After I got 25 gallons of water in the tank today I pulled out my key fob and pumped it all into the front lawn, it worked great and only took 5 minutes so now I have only super clean water in the tank.

I need to get my water mixing figured out because I would like to use RO water this Wednesday, I need to get my tap water tested by someone with good equipment so I know exactly what I have, I guess I put it on the gwapa forum and see if I can get some help locally.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I've been rushing around all week trying to get this RO system finish and today I got to use it and it worked perfectly, the water was pumped into the tank at about the same speed as the faucet, the water temperature was spot on but there is no pearling like when you use tap water, I guess it is gassed out after sitting. 

I also got a few new fish and plants this week, a Narrow leaf Java Fern, Ludwigia Glandulosa, Anubias Barteri Nana Petite, and some Hydrocotyle tripartita 'Japan' which kind of reminds me of Riccia in the way it takes over but I guess I'll see as it grows. The fish are Tiger Hillstream Loaches and I think I got lucky and got a male and female, here's some pics.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

Looking good  

Love the hillstream loaches - so much character in such a little fish. In your tank they will make territories and try to top any bottom feeding fish that enters. They have no teeth so it's all about bluff, lol.




150EH said:


> I've been rushing around all week trying to get this RO system finish and today I got to use it and it worked perfectly, the water was pumped into the tank at about the same speed as the faucet, the water temperature was spot on but there is no pearling like when you use tap water, I guess it is gassed out after sitting.
> 
> I also got a few new fish and plants this week, a Narrow leaf Java Fern, Ludwigia Glandulosa, Anubias Barteri Nana Petite, and some Hydrocotyle tripartita 'Japan' which kind of reminds me of Riccia in the way it takes over but I guess I'll see as it grows. The fish are Tiger Hillstream Loaches and I think I got lucky and got a male and female, here's some pics.


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## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

150EH said:


> I also got a few new fish and plants this week, a Narrow leaf Java Fern, Ludwigia Glandulosa, Anubias Barteri Nana Petite, and some Hydrocotyle tripartita 'Japan' which kind of reminds me of Riccia in the way it takes over /IMG]


Hey, the tank is looking good. I really like Hydrocotyle japan, nice looking and easy to grow I've read. I added some recently but I can't find it, lol, Lilaeopsis seems to have swallowed it up so I'm eager to see how yours does.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

sundragon said:


> Looking good
> 
> Love the hillstream loaches - so much character in such a little fish. In your tank they will make territories and try to top any bottom feeding fish that enters. They have no teeth so it's all about bluff, lol.


Thanks sundragon I used to have around 10 Hillstreams and 4 different species and I loved to watch them but they are getting harder to find with so many of the good LFS closing, I got these at HOT and they had some nice Electric Blue Rams, RCS, and a few other items that are new for them.



Jeff5614 said:


> Hey, the tank is looking good. I really like Hydrocotyle japan, nice looking and easy to grow I've read. I added some recently but I can't find it, lol, Lilaeopsis seems to have swallowed it up so I'm eager to see how yours does.


Thanks Jeff, I wanted to use it to highlight the deep tones of the Wentii tropica and make them stand out, so after it takes hold I will try to trim it low and see if it will fill in around the Crypts. I find little 3 leaf clovers floating all the time so I guessing you haven't seen the last of it unless it doesn't like your water conditions.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Here a pic of the finished product, I added a couple more valves so I could add a faucet to fill small containers for use in smaller tanks and it allows me to mix the gH booster by just cycling the tank. I do have to be present and flip a couple valve to do a water change but I wanted that way, I just don't trust a $10 float when it comes to flooding my house and with this system it just so easy anyway. So far my tds is zero pre DI unit but as you can see there is some junk in my water the sediment filter on the left is already brown after a 110 gallons of water, which is actually 550 gallon including the waste water, but it is working great and the water is pre heated and there's a full tank waiting by the next morning, so if your consider a unit 75 gpd is fairly quick and has the best rejection rates too.


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Oct 8, 2009)

Tank is looking great and I'm digging the RO setup


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Thanks Dizzle, I'm like it too!!! I went out to fill a clean 1 gallon water carton and after you turn the pump on you have about 2 or 3 seconds to find the off button or your getting wet.


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## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

Congrats on finishing off the RO system and getting it all dialed in. Great adds, love the loaches


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

Nice unit man.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Thanks guys I appreciate it, be careful Cable you could get a planted tank infraction for talking to me like that.


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## kwheeler91 (May 26, 2009)

Looking good. Those sewellia are pretty easy to sex, the males have a little spike/flare on the top of the "pectoral" fin. You can google it to see an example. Hands down one of my top ten favorite fish.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I really like them too and thanks for the info, I was just going by the body shape, one was spread out and very square overall and the other was fatter but very rounded near the head or like it had no shoulders.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Another shot of a fat Oto and a couple of the new Hillstream loaches. This Oto is really fat and it has a belly button or something weird bulging out of it's belly but I have no idea if it's OK or something that should not be there?


























I don't know why but I just find both of these fish fascinating in the way they can hang on to rocks, wood, etc. in fast currents with all these tiny hooks on their underbellies.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I'm really pleased with the water from the RO unit and my tank is starting to look really good because I used to have a problem with sediment on the leaves of slow growers but the Fissidens, Staurogyne, etc. is starting to look really good and the little algae problem I was battling is also disappearing too.


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## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

Beautiful shots of the fish. That Oto needs to go on a diet. Congrats on the improvements in your tank.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> Thanks guys I appreciate it, be careful Cable you could get a planted tank infraction for talking to me like that.


Lol. Is that like a party foul? Only without the booze spillage?:icon_lol:


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## Bahugo (Apr 18, 2011)

That oto is huge! It almost appears pregnant, I tried googling it for like half an hour but couldn't get a clear answer. 

Nice RO unit!


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

2in10 said:


> Beautiful shots of the fish. That Oto needs to go on a diet. Congrats on the improvements in your tank.


I posted the pic on James (the Oto wisperer) journal and he said she was with egg(s) and if no male mate with her she will absorb them.



cableguy69846 said:


> Lol. Is that like a party foul? Only without the booze spillage?:icon_lol:


I'm not sure but I've had 2 infractions in the past 6 months, so they are getting a little pant seat retentive around here, opps is that an infraction?



Bahugo said:


> That oto is huge! It almost appears pregnant, I tried googling it for like half an hour but couldn't get a clear answer.
> 
> Nice RO unit!


I've been taking some photo's and I'll post them later but the males are still tiny and I would say barely an inch, but I have several fat females like that.


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## kwheeler91 (May 26, 2009)

Dont worry, i got an infraction for refering to a certain someone as a witch with growth inhibiting magic...
I love the sewellia too, one my favorite fish


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

kwheeler91 said:


> Dont worry, i got an infraction for refering to a certain someone as a witch with growth inhibiting magic...
> I love the sewellia too, one my favorite fish


I've been here so long and typing the exact same way all these years without any problem! Til now


I got a couple of photos of these male and female Oto's and the size difference is striking and I'm not sure if the outward anatomy is different. They may be different species as I have affinis and vitattus, I also have a shot of their backs, fat female left & boney male right. The male is so small he looks like a juvenile fish but he is nearing a year old.
































I also got the back side of the Tiger Hillstream, notice the 3 holes and the brown area near the back of the head. The plant is Lysimachia nummularia v. 'aurea' and this was taken after lights out but I wanted to show just how bright the lime green color is and it adds a bit of interest even in the dark.


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## Chrisinator (Jun 5, 2008)

The Oto looks like it has a pinecone appearance, a possibility that it has dropsy.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

You could be right but there are a few in my tank like this and they have been there almost a year with no other fish having this type of problem, also my tank is kept very clean with weekly water changes of 50 to 70 gallons so the condition for the decease are not present, but I will keep an eye on her and keep in in mind.


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## ObscureAllure (May 15, 2012)

150EH said:


>


One word. Lorax.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Lorax LOL.

Nice fish. Mine is still a baby and has hardly any bristles yet.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

That one is not mine, just on the wish list for another tank.

While I'm here, FTS










My Fissidens still has a little sediment on the leaves but it gets cleaner by the day using the RO water


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## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

Beautiful tank and shots


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

2in10 said:


> Beautiful tank and shots


Thanks 2in10.

Every year we go to PA and have meeting/auction with another club at That Pet Place, it's a nice ride, the store is huge, prices are great, but they don't really have anything out of the ordinary but they do have any equipment you can think of, like tanks. Any way I got some new plants, Blyxa japonica & aubertii, Rotalla wallichii, and Sphaerocaryum malaccense, so as soon as I make some room in my tank I'll get some photos. Not that is matter because there is so much plant material in there it's hard to see any one thing.

Oh the tank they had to day in the scratch and dent clearance room was a 220 gallon drilled on the left end and back with starphire glass and black silicone, with a custom Cherry stand and hood, I'm guess the holes were drilled in the wrong place but it was absolutely beautiful but no price tag, some lucky person had already made a deposit.


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## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

Congrats on the new plants. They have more plants than my LFS's.


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## Bahugo (Apr 18, 2011)

Nice updates! Lets see pics of the new plants man


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Tomorrow, I'm to lazy to plant them tonight, it's been a long day with 2.5 hours drive one way. Also we were right around the corner from Racheal and she's on vacation so we didn't get any Orange Oto's or Shrimp!


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

Why does the fissidens keep getting cleaner when you use RO?


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Rummies look really good in the tank actually.


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## FlyingGiraffes (Jan 30, 2011)

Looking good. Your stems are really tall! What plants did you get?


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

jkan0228 said:


> Why does the fissidens keep getting cleaner when you use RO?


I guess my water had a lot of sediment that collects on the leaves, the sediment filter was brown after the first use of the unit.



plantbrain said:


> Rummies look really good in the tank actually.


Thanks, Tom.



FlyingGiraffes said:


> Looking good. Your stems are really tall! What plants did you get?


Blyxa japonica & aubertii, Rotalla wallichii, and Sphaerocaryum malaccense, but I haven't added them to the tank yet. I'm going to do it today but it may take some rearrangement.


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## izabella87 (Apr 21, 2012)

Your oto she got the preggers I think. Or an alien invasion... one of the two } 
You still got the Kribs? I loveeee these fish, so colorful and got lotsa personality!!


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

izabella87 said:


> Your oto she got the preggers I think. Or an alien invasion... one of the two }
> You still got the Kribs? I loveeee these fish, so colorful and got lotsa personality!!


Yep, they are still in there.

The new plants are in the tank but it's such a jungle you'll never find them, sorry about the reflections and poor photo.


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## izabella87 (Apr 21, 2012)

Haha funny, i call my tank a Jungle also.. but yours its like amazones !!


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## mcqueenesq (Aug 29, 2011)

These latest shots are fantastic. I love this tank.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Thanks guys/gals I appreciate that!!!!

I think it's fun to look back in your history and post your first tank journal shot along side a current photo, this one is from 4-20-2011 and it is miles away from the current shot. I only have 4 species of plant left over from the original planting but the good news I have 37 species total now and it has filled in a little.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

This is a tank to be proud of roud:


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Thanks Steve, the side by side is pretty ugly but you gotta start somewhere.


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## The Italian Nazi (Feb 12, 2012)

Hey 150EH I just got on the boards and read through all 53 pages last night. Just have to say this tank is :bounce:spectacular:bounce:!!! I hope that my 150 I am converting from a reef could one day be this majestic. WELL DONE!


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Thank you and welcome to the forum, don't forget to post your progress in the tank journals!! roud:


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

You really need to change the title of your thread man. Lol.


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## izabella87 (Apr 21, 2012)

You did great job on that tank !.. maybe you also had good collaborating plants  Its all about communication.. *grow pretties, grow*...


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

cableguy69846 said:


> You really need to change the title of your thread man. Lol.


It's a trick to pull people in for a look, but really I don't think it will let me change it.

I figured it out, you just can't alter the original title.



izabella87 said:


> You did great job on that tank !.. maybe you also had good collaborating plants  Its all about communication.. *grow pretties, grow*...


Thank you!


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

150EH said:


>


This is looking great!


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Thanks Hydrophyte, I was just coming back with some update photos.

The current fts after some trimming yesterday, when the fish are hungry they watch me like a hawk.









Here a regulator I picked up for $10 plus $24 to ship it but it works, it's a dual stage, and has a lot of character so I think I'll keep it because I have a 10 gallon Metaframe lined up for pick up in Baltimore.

Before & After (still waiting for solenoid, needle valve, & fittings)


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## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

Wow, doesn't even look like the same regulator after you got it cleaned up.


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## hbosman (Oct 5, 2006)

did you use brasso?


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I bought a polishing kit for my Dremel that cost $19 and it took 20 minutes to get the knob cleaned, I also bought a bottle of Brasso for $4 and went over ever place about 3 times and it was perfect and totally clean on the first evening I had it.

It is rough but I love the character and have yet to see another Victor with the nice old lettering on the gauges. I've got a burkert 6011 solenoid and Fabco NV-55 needle valve coming, so it will be all brass.


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## hbosman (Oct 5, 2006)

I have two Victor VTS 250 regs that I got from Ebay for $55.00 a few years ago. I use one, the second is a spare. I really like the Brass ones. The VTS series are smaller than the Chrome ones that are popular lately. What model is yours? It looks to be smaller yet.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

That is a VTS-200 above, and I've got 2 more coming, a Victor VTS-250C and a Concoa 412-7351, they are all brass with SS diaphragms and all dual stage.

hbosman you should try coming to a GWAPA meeting, we have at least 2 or 3 a year in VA. and maybe more, but for a $20 membership you'll get a ton of auction plants cheap and you can sell your plants or old equipment. Click logo below to check out the schedule.


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## Marconis (Nov 8, 2010)

Looking good!


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Marconis said:


> Looking good!


Thank you, I like your tank as well it's off to a good start.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Dude! You did an awesome job on that regulator. Impressive! 

Tank is looking mighty spiffy as well. Though, it's aching for you to toss in some red plants.  I think that'll set it off proper!


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Thanks Speedie and I agree on the red but I'm lacking something that red plants like, I'm not positive but I think I need a stronger burst of light at midday. Currently I have, Ludwigia glandulosa, Rotala macrandra 'Japan red', & Rotala Wallichii that should be red and Rotala sp. colorata & Hygrophila polysperma sunset that should be pink, but my pinks are green and my reds are pink. 

I am working on it.


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## Bahugo (Apr 18, 2011)

That regulator looks sick after cleaning it up man, good job!


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Bahugo said:


> That regulator looks sick after cleaning it up man, good job!


Thanks, I took a chance but it turned out nice, I knew that little brass knob would look cool/sick polished.


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## The Trigger (May 9, 2012)

Tank looks awesome man. And that regulator was literally brought back from the dead. Looks great


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## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

150EH said:


> Thanks Speedie and I agree on the red but I'm lacking something that red plants like, I'm not positive but I think I need a stronger burst of light at midday. Currently I have, Ludwigia glandulosa, Rotala macrandra 'Japan red', & Rotala Wallichii that should be red and Rotala sp. colorata & Hygrophila polysperma sunset that should be pink, but my pinks are green and my reds are pink.
> 
> I am working on it.


What is your GH at and how much do you dose micros and Fe? When is the last time you change bulbs?


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

My gH 4 to 5.5
Micros lightly about half EI every other day
Fe 30 ml dosed with micros
My burst bulbs are a year old but are only on for 2 hours a day, 2 of them are 6 months old or less. Due to a noisy fan I'm only running half of my burst, so I need to get that done, I'm looking at the fan on my desk. 

There are too here lacking color


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## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

I dose CSM+B at the equivalent of 1ppm Fe per week. I have 162W of light on 10 hours per day. Lights are about 18" above the substrate.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

There's a big difference with your lights 18 inches above the substrate, mine are 30 inches above and 452 watts for 7.5 hours a day, but I use low light for viewing all day with a burst at midday. I have another 192 watts available for my burst, with 10K bulbs that penetrate the depth a little better.

I tried micros and Fe all over the place and was watching Dempsey/Clint's tank get red with lower micros and less but good Fe, I gone up to 70 ml per day everyday for 2 months with no result on color, so light is my last resort but I'm not sweating the lack of color but it would be nice to have, one problem right now is my tank is doing so well with no algae, growing good, and just in auto pilot mode so I'm a little hesitant to change anything.

But keep it up, I'm listening.


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## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

I agree if it is working don't mess with it. I think lighting is your last resort but you are rightfully cautious increasing the intensity. I think increasing the photoperiod to 9 to 10 hours might do the trick. The longer photoperiod seems to help with the red coloration.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

My A. crispus flowered again, that makes 5 times in the last 12 months. This time I'll let the seed fall and see if I get any plantlets.


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## jart (Jan 17, 2003)

That is awesome! I've never kept any aponos but might try one with my next tank.

Tank looks nice.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> My A. crispus flowered again, that makes 5 times in the last 12 months. This time I'll let the seed fall and see if I get any plantlets.


Nice.:icon_smil

Now, DON'T TOUCH IT!!!! Lol.


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## izabella87 (Apr 21, 2012)

Springs flowers


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I know, I did forget to mention I killed 2 of the 5!!!


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I just want to mention how much I love Catalina Aquarium, I order 4 x 65 watt power compacts two days ago and got them this morning and all 4 cost me $45 plus $10 S&H or another way to say it is they were $13.75 each. With great service and prices like this we should all be able to keep our lighting up to date.


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Nice!



150EH said:


> My A. crispus flowered again, that makes 5 times in the last 12 months. This time I'll let the seed fall and see if I get any plantlets.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

*R.I.P. Stumpy*

*R.I.P
Stumpy
5-30-2005 to 6-16-2012*







He wasn't always call Stumpy but sometime in 2006 while cleaning up some driftwood from a BBA outbreak, Stumpy attached himself to the wood and got into a sink full of hot water, he was immediately rushed back to the tank where he survived for many years but never looked the same, although he was a bully and ate his weight in shrimp and Chili Rasboras, he will be missed.
Stumpy was a Sydontis Nigriventris of a different kind and I'll miss his splashing at the waters surface.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

Sorry to hear that man.


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## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

Sorry on the loss, you had a nice long time together


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## JoeDizzleMPLS (Oct 8, 2009)

Losing fish sucks -- I just lost a Serrasalmus maculatus last week that I had for about 5 years. Worst part is that I don't even know what happened -- went to bed around 1am and it was swimming around the tank like normal, walked into my office around 10am and he was upside down on the bottom.

It's crazy how attached you can get to your fish.


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## green_valley (Sep 14, 2011)

I am sorry for the loss of Stumpy. May be getting the same type?


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## jweis (Jan 31, 2011)

Seven years seems like a long run for a fish, especially once that had a hot water dip.

Remember the good times.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Awww....poor Stumpy. He never even got the chance to win the ugliest fish award  

What is your photoperiod again? From what Clint and I discussed, you need a 10 hour photoperiod at least to keep real nice reds if your ferts are in line. I have been running 12 with PPS-Pro ferts. Ive had it at as much as 16 this way. You are basically bumping Co2 and lighting every couple days,to its maximum, and watching for algae along the way. Then backing off when you have a problem. If your tank is nice and balanced you shouldnt have a problem. If or when you do, at least you'll know what the cause is this time.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Well I can say Stumpy got a lot of sympathy hits and he was a bully and way too big so it's unlikely he'll get replaced but I figured after seven years he should at least get a tribute, thank you everybody.

Thanks Chad, I might try your suggestion soon, the tank is fairly maintenance free for a high tech or I should say it doesn't produce much algae anymore so I might try to play with the photo period and C02.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

OK now you have to make Stumpy's postmortem pic your avatar for 30 days as a proper tribute :icon_mrgr


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## MyMonkey (Jul 17, 2007)

Great tank. Tagging along.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

audioaficionado said:


> OK now you have to make Stumpy's postmortem pic your avatar for 30 days as a proper tribute :icon_mrgr


:hihi: This... :hihi:


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

MyMonkey said:


> Great tank. Tagging along.


Thanks and anytime!



audioaficionado said:


> OK now you have to make Stumpy's postmortem pic your avatar for 30 days as a proper tribute :icon_mrgr


He deserves that, no problem.



I should have named him Alfalfa for the dorsal fin, did you notice the length of the barbel or what ever it's called


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## moonshinetheslacker (Sep 13, 2010)

EH, Sorry to hear about Mr. Stumpy. That totally sucks.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Thanks but Stumpy had a good long life considering he was 3.5 inches long.

I took a bunch of shots but none of them were impressive but I like to see these hillstream loaces hanging out together. The little specks on his belly/chin are tiny Ramshorn snails.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I was getting ready to feed the fish today and looked at the water surface to see how the A. crispus flower is coming since I decided to let it melt away and drop some seeds in the tank, only to see a second flower that will open in a couple of days.

See the old one in the back out of focus?


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

I love those hill stream loaches. I had one once and never saw it until years later when I was breaking down the tank. How are yours so active? Nice on the flower!


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## Lapja (Mar 25, 2012)

150EH said:


> Thanks but Stumpy had a good long life considering he was 3.5 inches long.
> 
> I took a bunch of shots but none of them were impressive but I like to see these hillstream loaces hanging out together. The little specks on his belly/chin are tiny Ramshorn snails.


Nice, me want some for my tank later... Do you have the scientific name? my lfs owner only makes special orders if I have the exact name I like the flounder look. Do they move around a lot?

Cheers!


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I'm not sure why but they have been hanging out together and I keep going back and forth thinking I have a male and female but I really think they are 2 males. I really like them because they look so unusual and I think they are more at ease in a larger tank without a constant line of sight.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Lapja said:


> Nice, me want some for my tank later... Do you have the scientific name? my lfs owner only makes special orders if I have the exact name I like the flounder look. Do they move around a lot?
> 
> Cheers!


They are Tiger Hillstream Loaches or Sewellia lineolata, they are fairly active and on the front glass every night after lights out and do the same most days, it is more rare to see them laying on the substrate or together as they can be territorial and dig a small pit for mating, there is a Youtube video of one digging the pit and getting aggressive with his partner but I have never witnessed this behavior and I have kept these guys in my tanks for the last 5 or 6 years.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

You have some of the coolest fish roud:


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Thanks Steve, we have one good LFS left but for the most part internet sales and Petcosmart have killed all the mediocre fish stores in our area.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I took a couple photos today and wanted to share them with you.

Here's my new Apon crispus flower, there is a second flower wilting on the other side of that cross brace and I think this makes 6 blooms in less that year.










Heres two of my Pelvicachromis sacrimontis eating some brine shrimp, it's their weekly treat.










I liked this photo because it had a little motion and the fish was sucking in a brine shrimp.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

*Blyxa aubertii*


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## Bahugo (Apr 18, 2011)

Nice shots dude! How are the tanks doing?


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## izabella87 (Apr 21, 2012)

Nice flower


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Bahugo said:


> Nice shots dude! How are the tanks doing?


Thanks, they are doing fine but getting a little neglected as we get our kitchen floor replaced.



izabella87 said:


> Nice flower


Thank you.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

We've had our kitchen floor apart replacing some floor joists and I've been neglecting my tank, no dosing, trimming, etc. So today I started the clean up and I lost three species of plant, Hemianthus glomeratus, Ludwigia glandulosa, & Sphaerocaryum malaccense, I also lost one fish, Sewellia lineolata/Tiger Hillstream Loach. The problem is the flow gets reduced quickly if I don't trim or plants get too shaded, or with no ferts some plants start to melt but I have not idea on why the fish died, just his time I guess.

Oh, I almost forgot that before I started ignoring my tank I had a slight BBA problem I was treating but it went full bore and I had to remove a lot of plant leaves today, but over the coarse of 8 to 10 days it really took over.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I got rid of all my Riccia last year or so I thought, one little antler was caught up in some driftwood that peaks through the water surface and this is what it what it looks like during a water change, it's just hanging from the Manzanita.

I've seen it used like this on rock walls and it will attach tightly if there is enough water available for it to survive.


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

wow nice


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

> I got rid of all my Riccia last year


Why? Was it too much trouble to keep in in check?


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

sayurasem said:


> wow nice


Thanks



audioaficionado said:


> Why? Was it too much trouble to keep in in check?


Not at all but it was the first plant to get Cyanobacteria so I ditched it thinking that would be the end of the BGA but the tank still got treated with Myacin or something like that. I'm actually glad to still have some and it much easier to grow like this.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I pulled some of the Riccia apart today and let it free float only to notice some Cyanobacteria in a deep blue color and in full funk as I sniffed it to double check my diagnosis. I just treated this tank mid February and it's got it again, I still have enough Eythromyacin to treat it again I'm just afraid it may kill some of my oldest fish, but in theory they should be stronger from the last treatment.

I remember how sad my bloody SAE looked after the treatment but he/she did pull through. The first photo is just after I treated, note the blood in the dorsal fin and patchy scales, the second shot is 2 weeks later as he starts to heal. Plus I lost some Rummy's and other livestock.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I picked up a refill for my CO2 yesterday and hooked it up as I normally due without making any changes to my settings only to find I had gassed my fish, I'm so mad that I killed these little creatures that I'm supposed to be caring for and watching over.

My nice 7 year old SAE, dead
1 Flounder dead and it was my only one
3 Dwarf Chained Loaches, dead
32 Rummynosed Tetras, all dead


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## Ozydego (Aug 29, 2011)

I did the same thing a while back. Never touched the regulator, hooked it back up after filling in the morning and left it, the timer was set to turn it on in the afternoon. Came back a few hours after that and everything was floating. Not quite dead but close. I was able to save most of them, but man did it make me feel terrible to do that to my animals. This last time I filled it, I did the same process, but the BPM was actually slower this time... watched it like a hawk. Sorry to hear about your livestock.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I've turned the tank off for the rest of the day but I didn't have an air pump handy to get some O2 in the water, but some of the fish were very resourceful and stuck their head into a mass of Fissidens to find some oxygen.


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## Silky (Sep 21, 2011)

That sucks man sorry to hear that. I freak out anytime I see any of my fish not looking right, I can't imagine what it's like to see your whole tank floating. A few years ago my son squeezed a whole bottle of chocolate syrup into a tank full of african cichlids....there were no survivors lol


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

150EH said:


> I picked up a refill for my CO2 yesterday and hooked it up as I normally due without making any changes to my settings only to find I had gassed my fish, I'm so mad that I killed these little creatures that I'm supposed to be caring for and watching over.
> 
> My nice 7 year old SAE, dead
> 1 Flounder dead and it was my only one
> ...


Something I've noticed when I changed out my CO2 tank, the bubble rate seemed higher than before. Now a dual stage regulator isn't supposed to do this. It all tested out OK using Betatail's testing procedure. So I just slowed down the bubble rates and then slowly ramped it back up over a few days until my DC looked good and the fish still acted OK. With CO2 and fauna there is no 'set it and forget it' in spite of how fancy or advanced we think our equipment is. Sorry for your loss man. That SAE of yours has been though a lot and you've given him a good life for longer than a lot of fish get to have. Accidents happen and it's often no one's fault.


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## fishboy199413 (Jan 20, 2010)

That sucks I'm sorry. What are you going to do? Are you going to restock with the same fish, new ones, or neither of those? Hope everything else is okay.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Silky said:


> That sucks man sorry to hear that. I freak out anytime I see any of my fish not looking right, I can't imagine what it's like to see your whole tank floating. A few years ago my son squeezed a whole bottle of chocolate syrup into a tank full of african cichlids....there were no survivors lol


So much for his first Rio ***** blackwater _biotope_ attempt LOL.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I've been busy for the last couple of days so I haven't turned the CO2 back on but I did clean up my drop checker and fill it with new fluids, I've been waiting for the fluid to turn blue so I could start from scratch in setting up the CO2 but the drop checker is staying lime green. One of my fellow GWAPA members uses the same set up I do on this tank, we both use RO/DI water, high light, high CO2, etc. and we both have a problem with acidic water, mine is below 6.4 with the CO2 turned on and she first noticed the problem because she uses a pH monitor to cycle her CO2 on/off and with the water being so acidic the pH monitor was never coming on, so no CO2.

Currently I use Equilibrium or gH booster(s) to set the gH and just a little of Seachems Alkalinity regulator for a kH of 35 ppm or 2 dkH. Maybe I should also be using their Acid regulator.

Does anyone know if this would help my water in being less acidic or any other reason why my drop checker is still lime green with no CO2 in the water.


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## Bahugo (Apr 18, 2011)

Sorry to hear about the fish 150 

What type of water are you using in your drop checker?


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## jweis (Jan 31, 2011)

150EH said:


> I've been busy for the last couple of days so I haven't turned the CO2 back on but I did clean up my drop checker and fill it with new fluids, I've been waiting for the fluid to turn blue so I could start from scratch in setting up the CO2 but the drop checker is staying lime green. One of my fellow GWAPA members uses the same set up I do on this tank, we both use RO/DI water, high light, high CO2, etc. and we both have a problem with acidic water, mine is below 6.4 with the CO2 turned on and she first noticed the problem because she uses a pH monitor to cycle her CO2 on/off and with the water being so acidic the pH monitor was never coming on, so no CO2.
> 
> Currently I use Equilibrium or gH booster(s) to set the gH and just a little of Seachems Alkalinity regulator for a kH of 35 ppm or 2 dkH. Maybe I should also be using their Acid regulator.
> 
> Does anyone know if this would help my water in being less acidic or any other reason why my drop checker is still lime green with no CO2 in the water.


I (julie) must be your GWAPA friend with the similar problem. I was able to effectively lower the acidity (and raise pH) by using a mixture of Seachem's Alkaline Buffer and Acid Buffer (I follow the instructions on the bottles). From my experience the trick was to add the buffers to the tank's water every day until they reach the desired level, then stop. My kH is still very low (takes only one drop to turn the kH test soln blue). The pH is still lower than before I switched to RO water (I could keep adding more buffer, but since I am out of the scary range, I have stopped). However, I adjusted the desired pH level down on my pH monitor/controller and the plants are doing well, and the fish and shrimp are all doing well too. 

BTW, you keep changing your Avatars. I sorta liked the hamburger.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Yes you are my gwapa buddy, I had been wanting to ask you how you corrected the problem with the low ph but I never got around to it at the last meeting. I turned off the CO2, stopped dosing, and have let this tank go low tech for the most part, after my big mistake I thought it was the least I could do and let the fish have the tank back without all the nasty stuff I add to make the plants look good. Maybe when winter comes I'll get bored and shoe some interest but for now it's all natural for me.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Bahugo said:


> Sorry to hear about the fish 150
> 
> What type of water are you using in your drop checker?


Better late than never, Mountain Dew code yellow, no really 4dkH and it was safety yellow so it was just my fault for getting so close to the edge and the newly filled tank just pushed it over the edge.

I don't think I'll ever turn the CO2 back on, not on this tank. I'm so mad that I killed all those fish and my SAE was 7 years old and even though he was way too big for the tank what I did was wrong and not fair, even if they are just fish. Besides this tank is just too tall to be planted, it would be better as a salt water tank or a Cichlid tank with a bunch of rocks and caves, 30 inches deep makes it too much work and really impossible if you need to touch the bottom.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

Sorry to hear about the loss of fish


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

Yikes. I missed a lot man. Sorry for the losses. Don't let that dissuade you though. Maybe you just need to stare at it a while until some inspiration strikes. (Did I see something about salt?) Then again, I am all for low tech tanks. All the joy and a fraction of the hassle. (Seriously, did I see something about salt?  ) Keep at it man. That tank is too awesome. (SALT!)

Sent from my phone via my job's wifi, most likely.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

Mistakes happen, it wasn't intentional. You had tried your best to give them a great home and you shouldn't just let the tank go to waste. 

Take some time. Take a look at the tank - now you can change things if you want to do them differently - then add new citizens.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

When you were a kid, you fell down a lot over the years. Good thing you didn't give up walking. If you hadn't had those fish and given them a good home, someone else would have killed them years earlier or in the wild a big fish would have just eaten them a lot sooner than seven years.

To get around that 30" reach, just add 6" of scaping and substrate to the bottom.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I can answer all three of these at once, I'm not giving up but I want to do something different where a mistake isn't so costly. Besides this tank is a pain in the ##@# and I'm really enjoying the low tech tanks and playing with the new Metaframe setup, plus a Cichlid tank would be great in this tall tank, but thanks for trying to lift my spirits.


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## jweis (Jan 31, 2011)

150EH said:


> I can answer all three of these at once, I'm not giving up but I want to do something different where a mistake isn't so costly. Besides this tank is a pain in the ##@# and I'm really enjoying the low tech tanks and playing with the new Metaframe setup, plus a Cichlid tank would be great in this tall tank, but thanks for trying to lift my spirits.


Get a CO2 controller/monitor and you won't have to worry about too much CO2. With that said, a cichlid tank does sound very cool.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I think so too, it's just time for a change in this tank. It constantly has Cyano and BBA while my newer tanks are spotless with no effort at all, so it's got to be all the nasty build up in the substrate, this is where floods come in handy in cleaning out all the nasty stuff and getting an area to rebuild and thrive.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Yep, I agree, after time, its time to reset. I have window screen stapled to a 2" X 4" frame for rinsing old substrate out in the yard  It works good for all the nasties and you get too keep your substrate instead of reinvesting so much money to replace it. Cichlids? You can still do ALOT of easy keeper plants with them too


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Chichlid, Angels, just something different but after 8 years I'm gonna trash the Flourite and re-seal the tank, I think.


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> Chichlid, Angels, just something different but after 8 years I'm gonna trash the Flourite and re-seal the tank, I think.


Salt.......

Sent from my phone via my job's wifi, most likely.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

R.I.P.
Grumpy​Born 5-30-2005 - Died 10-7-2012​









Grumpy was one of a pair of Pelvicachromis pulcher fry that were born in my 150 gallon tank and survived to adulthood, he was the tank bully but he did keep everyone in line.

This his mom & dad and I think Grumpy is the fish out front on the driftwood, he was always a leader.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I've decided and this tank is done, I've been inspired by 2 other tanks with lots of rocks they both have elements of exactly what I have envisioned.

I'm thinking wall to wall stone with pockets of Aqua Soil that are terraced from low to high, very minimal numbers of plant species and the same on livestock with only shrimp and a small school of micro fish along with a cleaning crew in the background, Oto's and the like. I want it all green and mossy using the negative space to set the tank off and they will be non demanding plants so I can keep the CO2 and light at a medium setting and this will allow me to get rid of my bulky old lights a do a larger DIY LED set.

Let the stock piling begin!!!


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## Bahugo (Apr 18, 2011)

150EH said:


> I've decided and this tank is done, I've been inspired by 2 other tanks with lots of rocks they both have elements of exactly what I have envisioned.
> 
> I'm thinking wall to wall stone with pockets of Aqua Soil that are terraced from low to high, very minimal numbers of plant species and the same on livestock with only shrimp and a small school of micro fish along with a cleaning crew in the background, Oto's and the like. I want it all green and mossy using the negative space to set the tank off and they will be non demanding plants so I can keep the CO2 and light at a medium setting and this will allow me to get rid of my bulky old lights a do a larger DIY LED set.
> 
> Let the stock piling begin!!!


Are you planning on using the same tank? (the 150) only ask because it will be challenging using a tall tank vs a long tank for a rock scape. Keep us updated I am excited to see how it pans out!


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## andrewss (Oct 17, 2012)

150EH said:


> I've decided and this tank is done, I've been inspired by 2 other tanks with lots of rocks they both have elements of exactly what I have envisioned.
> 
> I'm thinking wall to wall stone with pockets of Aqua Soil that are terraced from low to high, very minimal numbers of plant species and the same on livestock with only shrimp and a small school of micro fish along with a cleaning crew in the background, Oto's and the like. I want it all green and mossy using the negative space to set the tank off and they will be non demanding plants so I can keep the CO2 and light at a medium setting and this will allow me to get rid of my bulky old lights a do a larger DIY LED set.
> 
> Let the stock piling begin!!!


sounds like a great idea(s)


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

These are my inspiration tanks, the one on the left is a GreenLeaf Aquarium tank (I think) and I love the ancient look along with the simplicity, the tank on the right belongs to a member here 'ChadRamsey' and I love the way the stone is tall and jagged plus it almost stretches from side to side. I hope they don't get mad about me stealing their photos?

I figured if I use a lot of stone, terraced with pockets of Aqua Soil it would save some money on substrate, cover everything with moss and a just a few specimen plants, and then have little shrimp crawling all over the tank with some peaceful vegetarian fish and I could keep the lighting simple and clean with a little CO2 but not pumping massive amounts.

Be patient because it may be next summer before I find or collect all the stone, buy 4 or 5 bags of AS and the substrate additives (I've been dying to try them) get it all together and scrape some cash together for livestock. But I figured a tall tank and the negative space would be a perfect vehicle for this tank and we will see if I can resist stuffing it with tall plants that reach the water line.


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## Obakemono (Dec 23, 2011)

150EH said:


> These are my inspiration tanks, the one on the left is a GreenLeaf Aquarium tank (I think) and I love the ancient look along with the simplicity, the tank on the right belongs to a member here 'ChadRamsey' and I love the way the stone is tall and jagged plus it almost stretches from side to side. I hope they don't get mad about me stealing their photos?
> 
> I figured if I use a lot of stone, terraced with pockets of Aqua Soil it would save some money on substrate, cover everything with moss and a just a few specimen plants, and then have little shrimp crawling all over the tank with some peaceful vegetarian fish and I could keep the lighting simple and clean with a little CO2 but not pumping massive amounts.
> 
> Be patient because it may be next summer before I find or collect all the stone, buy 4 or 5 bags of AS and the substrate additives (I've been dying to try them) get it all together and scrape some cash together for livestock. But I figured a tall tank and the negative space would be a perfect vehicle for this tank and we will see if I can resist stuffing it with tall plants that reach the water line.


This will be interesting given the size of your tank. Where do you plan on sourcing your rock? I'm still planning my tank, just trying to figure out how I will scape the tank. I know you will have a build thread, so looking forward to it!


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I have no idea where the rock will come from but I do know it will be free, I just can't see paying for rocks and then shipping on top of that for a tank this size, but I'll find something.


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## jart (Jan 17, 2003)

Any further plans? Really sorry to hear about the loss of your fish.


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## BoxxerBoyDrew (Oct 16, 2005)

Sorry about the loss of your Fish Buddy!!!

BUT accidents do happen, so the best thing you can do is to learn from what happened and make every attempt to make sure it never happens again!!!

I think your rock idea is going to be killer!!!! I can't wait to see or hear what you figure out! PM me if you think about doing Texas Holey Rock, as I might be able to help Ya out there!!! 

Plus the DIY LEDs will be awesome in its own right! 

Let me know if I can help in any way!!!
Drew


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## Kai808 (Jul 19, 2011)

So sorry to hear about your fish loss. He sounded like a great fish with a good personality. 

I also wanted to make a tank with a large mountain range. The one I have is in a 1.5 gallon tank, so it's easy to find the stones. 



Have you considered doing a DIY cement background? Good luck!


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

*Peaks in*

You set this thing back up yet?


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

Any traction on this? This shows great promise!


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I've done nothing, after new year it was full of Cyano and BBA, I've done several H202 treatments, several filter cleanings, some vacuuming, scraping, tweezing, etc. and it's starting to come around but it looks bad with half of the plants gone after I turned off the C02, but it's clean(er)!

I would still like to do something different with the tank but the truck failed emmisions and it needs new tires, bla bla bla, yada yada?!#


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

150EH said:


> I've done nothing, after new year it was full of Cyano and BBA, I've done several H202 treatments, several filter cleanings, some vacuuming, scraping, tweezing, etc. and it's starting to come around but it looks bad with half of the plants gone after I turned off the C02, but it's clean(er)!
> 
> I would still like to do something different with the tank but the truck failed emmisions and it needs new tires, bla bla bla, yada yada?!#


Sorry to hear about the truck, that really sucks  

You can try nuking the tank with antibiotics for the Cyano and a blackout for the BBA? It's a little less intensive than tweezing algae - I would have given up if I had to tweeze the stuff :biggrin:


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I used peroxide and I use more but I waiting on some prime, I have loaches (scaleless) in the tank and I need to aid their slime coat before going any farther.

I'm glad to see your still out there, I've haven't seen you at the meetings lately? I've missed a few myself.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

150EH said:


> I used peroxide and I use more but I waiting on some prime, I have loaches (scaleless) in the tank and I need to aid their slime coat before going any farther.
> 
> I'm glad to see your still out there, I've haven't seen you at the meetings lately? I've missed a few myself.


I'm still here :icon_mrgr I've just been finishing school and haven't had a weekend (What the hell is a weekend?) for the last 6 months.... I slept for a week after classes ended and I've tried to tend to the tank the last few weeks so my return to GWAPA, CCA, and TPT wouldn't be embarrassing :icon_bigg

I hope you ressurect your tank this year. Can you just dry it out and start fresh so there's no Algae issues? I wonder how much CO2 it takes for a tank that size?


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

How's your tank looking for the summer?

Mine is so overgrown that my large pearl gourami got stuck in some weeds, got trapped and died. Didn't find out until almost a week after the fact. Hauled a 5 gallon bucket's worth of just the floaters and turned them in for LFS credit. She found my missing fish in the middle in an advanced state of decay. This is out of my 45gal tall tank and I've got at least another 5-10 gallon's worth of weeds left LOL. Amazing what a little t5 light, CO2 and plenty of fish poo can do for plants. Haven't done a water change or added any ferts in almost a year.


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