# Eco-Complete without plants



## hchance (Feb 11, 2004)

I am thinking of not having plants in my tank anymore, and was wondering what the effects of the eco-complete would have in the aquarium without the plants to absorb the nutrients and such. Should I remove that too?

Heather


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

It will be fine to leave in there, it does not leach out nutrients. 
Im sorry to here that you are done with plants, are you having a tough time with them ? There are easy options and very easy plants to grow that will still be beneficial to your fishies if you would like some help. :wink:


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## hchance (Feb 11, 2004)

Yes I am having a very tough time. I don't really want to quit plants, but I feel I've wasted so much money on plants and equipment, and I can't get it right. It's been about a year now, so I'm ready to give up. I want my fish to be happy, but I don't want an ugly thing in my living room, ya know?
I actually thought I had easy plants in there. I have Vals, Red Rubin Sword, Java Fern, and Rotala Indica, and something else I can't remember right off the top of my head.
If I can't keep those alive, I doubt I should try anything else. Quite frankly I don't really feel like redoing my tank either.
But on the other hand you have me curious to see how you may help. 
Thanks-


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

Lets start at the beginning, what is your setup. I know you have the Eco so that is a good thing. How about your lighting ? You say you cant keep these plants alive or is it an algae issue ?


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## hchance (Feb 11, 2004)

No, luckily I don't have an algae issue anymore. I think I have some kind of nutrient problem. All the plants look unhealthy. I just planted my Vals about two months ago, and when I did I inserted some Flourish tabs. They looked so pretty and really took off, but now they are loosing their leaves and turning yellow and reddish-brown. I think I have half of what I planted now. My rubin's leaves are getting brown tips and dissintegrating, or they get a hole that doubles in size within a day and has a webby look to it. My rotala looks ok, but it doesn't look like a healthy plant. The java ferns get ugly brownish red leaves and haven't really grown much. 
Here's my setup-

46 gal bowfront
2 55 w allglass pc (just replaced)
1 30 w aqua glo
UV sterilizer
pressurized co2
eco complete substrate

nitrates between 5-10
ph 7.4
phosphates usually .1 but haven't tested lately
I dose potassium with water changes once a week and I also add flourish (1 dropperfull) twice a week.
My temperature is about 82 degrees. I can't seem to get it to lower due to the lights.
They've cracked my glass top twice. 
But that's it. Oh, we have really hard water here, and it goes through a water softener. I do not want to have to use different water. Too much work. Hope I didn't forget anything. Thanks for trying to help me.


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

It could be several factors together. 
You say you have hard water, but have you ever measured the KH/GH on it. I am not all that familiar with water softeners but have heard reports of trouble with them and water quality. The reason I ask is I am doubting you have sufficient CO2 in there with a ph of 7.4, what is it out of the tap ? What do you have for a reactor ? 
Are you dosing any iron at all...if you do have good levels of CO2 then you _must_ also dose iron above and beyond what Flourish will give you.
I doubt the temperature is all that bad but it will not help you being that warm if anything else is not up to snuff.

We will just have to narrow down the causes because you have plenty of light, OUCH... what do have for bulbs in that fixture ? :icon_idea


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## hchance (Feb 11, 2004)

My GH is 4, KH is 14. Without CO2 the ph is 8.4. I've been using my old hagen ladder as my reactor. I was dosing iron but have recently ran out, just haven't bought any yet because I was considering quitting. I have Chuck's calculator and last time I checked I thought my CO2 levels were ok. Before when I had some weird black algae, I didn't have the levels up enough, and when I turned it up the algae eventually went away. 
As far as the bulbs--they're just the All-Glass brand 55 watt pc bulbs. I contacted them about the heat cracking the top, they replaced the first one, but this time I'm not going to bother. I was thinking of replacing the piece with some tempered glass and see if that helps.


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## Thooshe (Dec 11, 2003)

I have the same tank but with 2 96w pc's and Flourite. No algae or dying plants.

Here is my dosing schedule
Dose When
Nitrate 1/2 tsp SU-TU-TH
Phosphate 4 ml SU-TU-TH
CSM+B 10 ml M-W-F
Water 50% SU
Potassium 1.5 tsp SU
Magnesium 3 tsp SU

CO2 30ppm using pressurized and an external reactor. Solenoid on the same timer with the lights. 

Phosphate Mix
2 tsp / 125ml water

CSM+B Mix
1.5 tsp / 125ml water

The reason for the 125ml bottles is I used to use Flourish and had extra bottles

I would recommend getting the CO2 higher and getting ferts from gregwatson.com. I had problems with algae and holes/stunted growth in my Red Rubin Sword along with plants dying off. Since I started this schedule back in November, my Rubin went from just about dead to a bush with 16" leaves and the rest of the plants are looking good too  .


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

Heather those bulbs are not the Actinics they normally supply with the fixtures are they ?


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## hchance (Feb 11, 2004)

Thank you Thooshe for your suggestions. I do have ferts from Greg Watson. Only nitrates and potassioum though. I suppose I could raise the C02. Would that hurt anything? I usually dose only when my tests say I need to, but maybe I should more often? 
No Buck, the bulbs are not actinics. They came with the daylight bulbs and that's what I replaced them with.
I really appreciate your trying to help. I'm wondering if the problem might be some nutrient that I'm missing, but I just don't have enough knowledge to figure it out. This is so frustrating!!!


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## Wö£fëñxXx (Dec 2, 2003)

Hi Heather..
Thoose's regimen is spot on, raise your C02 to 30ppm and dose per his instructions, you will see a vast difference..you have been starving your plants,
You will also need some Plantex CSM+B from gregwatson..
Hope to see you in a couple of weeks with a good testimony


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## hchance (Feb 11, 2004)

Ok, I will try. I'm hoping you're right, cuz I don't want to spend more money for nothin. 
Thanks!


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## hchance (Feb 11, 2004)

Alright. I ordered the plantex and some magnesium. Hope you're right, this is my last try. If this doesn't work I'm ripping it all out and gettin PLASTIC!!!


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## Wö£fëñxXx (Dec 2, 2003)

Do you have KH2P04/Phosphate?
This is what you need..

KN03-Nitrate
KH2P04-Phosphate
K2S04-Potassium
Plantex CSM+B-Trace

kh and a ph test kit, for calculating C02ppm in tank

Dose accordingly per above instuctions, give it a few weeks, if it does not work out for you, send me a PM, I will send you a check for all these supply's.


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

Wö£fëñxXx said:


> Dose accordingly per above instuctions, give it a few weeks, if it does not work out for you, send me a PM, I will send you a check for all these supply's.


Now there is an offer you cannot refuse Heather... roud: 
It definately has to be you fert regimen then with those bulbs... I really hope this all works for you, nothing beats a healthy, living tank... forget that "P" word you used in reference to plants ! roud: 

Thats a great offer Wolfy... you da man !


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## glass-gardens.com (Apr 14, 2004)

With yellowing leaves, iron or lighting is the first thing that comes to mind, but in your case, it sounds like you have enough light, at least in wattage. If they did crack the glass and your having overheating, I'd suggest you get them off the tank a couple of inches. I run a lot of watts on all my tanks but I tend to keep them several inches off the tank lids by various methods, some pretty, some not pretty.

You might also try working out a lid that doesn't create a greenhouse effect, I use eggcrate light grid material, keeps the fish (and Amanos) in but definitely lets everything breathe.


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

Heather,

What do you plan to do with the plants? I live about 20-30 minutes away from you and was curious if you were to sell them or toss them out.

If you ever do NOT want your eco-complete i'll be sure to take it if you want.


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## hchance (Feb 11, 2004)

:icon_lol: Ha-Ha!!! You all make me laugh!
Yes, I have the rest of the ferts. That's really nice of you to offer to pay for my stuff if it doesn't work, but I wouldn't do that! Thanks a bunch though!
MrMup04, If I decide to quit, you are welcome to just have the plants. I don't know why, but you can. I will probably keep the gravel though just because of the hassle. If I quit I'll let ya know, and we can arrange something.


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## Wö£fëñxXx (Dec 2, 2003)

Hows it going Heather? are things improving? let us know please!! :icon_idea


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## Ahkuma (Dec 5, 2004)

Thooshe,

After I setup my 46 BF next month and it settles in I'm going to use your dosing schedule. I transcribed it onto an envelope which is where I put all my important notes.


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## hchance (Feb 11, 2004)

Ooh, sorry, I didn't realize I needed to reply! I don't for some reason get e-mail notices when someone posts. I actually came by to update this thread!

Things seem to be going ok, I still have plants and that should say something. I did end up having to replace the Vals. They kept loosing leaves till they were gone, even after the new dosing schedule. I replaced them with some Crypt Spiralis and Balansae. They are doing really good. The Balansae are growing but slowly which is what I expected. My Stargrass is spreading rapidly (that's the plant I couldn't remember from before), but not up. Weird? I have also added some Crypt Petchii, and Lutea a week or two ago, and they are growing too. The Java Fern is doing great. Big leaves are coming out almost everyday!

I have been following the dosing schedule that was recommended to me here, but I have a few questions. First, since I have mostly Crypts now, I have noticed that I've been getting green spot algae on all the leaves. It's spreading fast. Should I still be dosing this way with slower growing plants? The glass gets pretty full of algae too. I find I have to scrape often. I checked my water with tests today before dosing Nitrates and Phosphates, and found 5 nitrates, .5 phosphates, and 27ppm Co2. So I dosed Nitrates as scheduled, and only half of the phosphate dose because I was worried about adding too much. 
Second, are my lights too bright for Crypts? 2 55 watt pc, and one 30 watt aquaglo. All are quite new. Just wondered if that's why I have spots algae.

So basically that's it. I know it's not serious problems, but I'm really paranoid about my plants dying! I just want to thank you for all the help and suggestions I've received, without them I would have plastic by now!

Heather

P.S.
Sorry--I know this thread doesn't belong in this category, but I don't know how to move it. 
:icon_conf


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## Wö£fëñxXx (Dec 2, 2003)

That is wonderful new's Heather, I am very glad to hear thing's are looking up for you, and that you did not have to revert to the plastic, that would have been tragic..hehe
Try upping you're P04/Phospahtes to 1/4Tsp that should slow down the green stuff on you're slower growing plant's...
Glad to hear back from you!!

Thanks


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## hchance (Feb 11, 2004)

What do you mean by upping the P04 to 1/4 tsp? In addition to the 4ml I'm adding to the tank, or to the original 2 tsp in the bottled mix?
Adding more P04 won't cause problems will it? It actually helps the green spot?

Thank you
Heather


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## Wö£fëñxXx (Dec 2, 2003)

hchance said:


> Adding more P04 won't cause problems will it? It actually helps the green spot?
> 
> Thank you
> Heather


No it will not cause you problem's and yes it help's with the slower growing plant's from getting greenspot.

Start dosing more KH2P04 with you're dosing, instead of 
1/2Tsp KN03
4ml KH2P04
do
1/2Tsp KN03
1/4Tsp KH2P04 dosed dry like the other.

obviously the 4ml is not enough..

Thanks


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## hchance (Feb 11, 2004)

Ok--will do!
Thank you--I'll let ya know how it works out.

Heather


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