# Staurogyne Repens Melting Strangely, Possible Disease or Fungus?



## tenthe (Dec 29, 2013)

A patch of my staurogyne repens is melting and I'm not sure what to make of it. The leaves will develop brown spots, then within a few days, all of the color drains out of the plant. The leaves remain attached, but the plant is completely brown.




























It's only happening to a small patch. The rest of my plants seem fine:









At first, I thought this might be some kind of diease spreading from plant to plant, so I pulled out all of the "infected" stems and tossed them out. However, the melting developed in a different spot the next day. It's still localized, but now at the opposite end of my plants.

The tank is still new. I did a one month dry start with the s. repens and HC. Both seemed to have handled the transition well. The tank had been flooded for a little over a week when this melting began.

Has anyone seen this before?

Here is some background information:

The tank is a 12 gallon long and I have a 36 inch Current Satellite LED fixture. Photoperiod is 6 hours. I'm injecting CO2 and have kept the drop checker yellow. I am also dosing 1.2 mL of excel daily. As far as fertilizers go, I have been following the EI dosing for 10-20 gallon aquariums using dry ferts. The substrate is amazonia powder. The water is kept at 81 degrees. The tank is still cycling. Yesterday I was reading 0.25 ppm amonia and 1 ppm nitrites.


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## KribsDirect (Nov 15, 2013)

Could the affected plants be converting from dry start to submerged? It would make sense if they all were showing signs, but just a patch, I wouldn't know what to think. From what I've read about dry starts, heavy Co2 helps in the conversion as they are used to a high concentration. 

I just picked up a nice sized batch of this from my LFS, so I'm interested as to how this turns out for you.


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## Positron (Jul 22, 2013)

The plants are converting to submersed form. Some will make it, some won't. Increase the odds by injecting as much co2 as possible.

This melt is what happened to me with s. repens, albeit it wasn't as bad.


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## TekWarren (Oct 6, 2013)

There is another topic where some of us are discussing this very "phenomenon". I've had mine for months with lots of new growth then all sudden small brown spots and mass melting. Same for several others in that discussion. Not sure what it is but others report it will bounce back if the root systems have established. Mine has melted a bunch but it has slowed way down, stems are still standing, new growth is occurring. -These cases do NOT seem be the result of "converting".


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## Aqualady (Jan 14, 2013)

TekWarren said:


> There is another topic where some of us are discussing this very "phenomenon". I've had mine for months with lots of new growth then all sudden small brown spots and mass melting. Same for several others in that discussion. Not sure what it is but others report it will bounce back if the root systems have established. Mine has melted a bunch but it has slowed way down, stems are still standing, new growth is occurring. -These cases do NOT seem be the result of "converting".


+1 agree...my repens in my 55g is doing this


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## Positron (Jul 22, 2013)

If all ferts are correct, and CO2 is good, it almost looks like the plant is send a chemical message to it's leaves to reabsorb energy into it's root and stem system. Perhaps the plant thinks bad tidings are ahead. This could be for whatever reason.


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## tenthe (Dec 29, 2013)

I was thinking that it was something other than the emersed to submerged transition because it is so localized. Wouldn't all of the plants exhibit these symptoms if the transition to submerged form is causing them? The rest of the plants are doing very well, most of them are pearling.

Since there is no livestock in the tank, I have had the CO2 very high. The CO2 comes on two hours before the lights. I'm using an Ista Max Mix inline reactor, so dissolution is very good. There aren't any bubbles in the tank. I keep the drop checker bottomed out throughout the entire photoperiod. Combined with the excel, there should be plenty of carbon available. 

The idea of a chemical message makes sense ituitively, it would explain why the browning occurs in patches.

Since pulling out the brown plants didn't seem to stop the melting, I think I will leave them in and see if they recover.


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## jfynyson (Apr 15, 2013)

I've got another theory but only have my tank as a data point and two competing variables. I stirred up my substrate recently (a lot) moving plants around and removing river pebbles and I believe this kicked up some ammonia. I thought this would happen anyways so I did 70+% water changes each time I did so. Maybe these plants are more sensitive to this....I noticed my L. Aromatica also did the same thing at the same time.

So, looking at you pic it looks like a bunch of your HC is missing (or maybe just has not grown in) right in front of the suffering plants. Did you by chance recently thin out the HC in that bare spot or disturb the substrate there ?

My other variable is lack of nutrients in the substrate but looks like you have aqua soil so that shouldn't really be the issue here. My substrate is inert and once I added more osmocote + capsules a couple weeks ago my s. repens have already began to bounce back ! I went a little more than 3 months before adding back more capsules. 

I look to this dying leaf phenomenon to tell me when I need to add more....however this time I had the substrate disturbed as well.


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## tenthe (Dec 29, 2013)

That's an interesting theory but it doesn't fit in my case. There originally wasn't any HC planted in the bare spot. I have been using it to replant any HC from other areas that floats to the surface in order to encourage the carpet to extend. So, by planting HC in that area I have been disturbing the subtrate slightly. However, I also planted a few stems of blyxa in another section which would have disturbed the soil to a greater degree, and the s. repens surrounding that area are unaffected by the melting.


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## Positron (Jul 22, 2013)

How are your repens doing? Mine are now doing the exact same thing! I've had them for about four months with new growth ect ect, and now I get dead, brown patches as the plant eventually melts.

Did you get yours from Petsmart?


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## r45t4m4n (Feb 12, 2014)

I found two of my plants like this today, promptly removed them. I recently started dosing a additional phosphate for GSA, maybe this has something to do with it?


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## Gokul (Aug 4, 2013)

I do agree with jfynyson theory. I am having the same problem in my tank. I had setup s.repens as, last week I disturbed substrate and it followed by s.repens melting. But my confusion is I did disturb substrate in one particular s.repense spot, then the melting started exactly in that spot and it did spread to all near by spots but it didn't reach the ones which has some visible substrate gaps.

But I am sure this is something to do with substrate disturbance


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## buckwheet (Apr 29, 2014)

hmm.

Gokul: "_i am sure this is something to do with substrate disturbance"_

as do I, I get it sometimes if I vac to hard in one spot. trying to pick up some stray moss



jfynyson: _"I believe this kicked up some ammonia" "however this time I had the substrate disturbed as well_"


TekWarren: _"others report it will bounce back if the root systems have established" "These cases do NOT seem be the result of "converting"._ 

1) mine always does. 2) my tank is over 2 years old, so NOT converting! 


tenthe: _"The idea of a chemical message makes sense intuitively, it would explain why the browning occurs in patches."
_
that kind of makes sense too. after 4 months planted, at the start of last summer this happened. nothing all winter, now I'm just getting over some spots here and there


sorry for all the quotes people :icon_redf

in my case I it's very hard for me to vac under all my s.repens (I have a lot as you will see) my first thoughts was "Hydrogen Sulfide "

being a very low to the substrate, and my 3 1/2 inch bed.
bacterial breakdown of organic matter and a lack of of oxygen!
every now and then i'll see a large bubble pop up from under the plants.(?)

(this is why I think this way)

http://www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2008/11/hydrogen-sulfides.html

http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/Hydrogen_sulphide

this could explain the die off for me, but not the OP. (first 4 months, little vacuuming. for most of this winter, even less!)
but I must say never as bad as his

so now every WC and vac I aerate the "lawn" with a chop stick.
open the air intake every night on my powerhead.
and the bad spots are less and less as time go's by.
but still happen now and then. be it only to the large underlying leaves.

photos of past decay:

left alone all spots coming back


























































sad thing is, all this. and I really have no advice for the OP. other then to say let it be and see if it comes back.
mine always dose








































o2 powerhead with home made skimmer


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## jfynyson (Apr 15, 2013)

Buckwheet, I think it's safe to say we'd all love to have a s. Repens carpet like yours. Well done!


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## buckwheet (Apr 29, 2014)

Positron said:


> How are your repens doing? Mine are now doing the exact same thing! I've had them for about four months with new growth ect ect, and now I get dead, brown patches as the plant eventually melts.
> 
> Did you get yours from Petsmart?





is this going to be about "Tissue Cultured plants "?
you know the ones that:

_eliminate the possibility of introducing contaminants, snails, or algae spores into your aquarium system
propagated by removing a small piece of plant, sterilizing it to eliminate all other organisms, then cultivating it on a nutrient gel?
_
not to disparage someone, or pick a fight, but whats wrong with them(petsmart plants)?
I've had nothing but the best of luck with them.

EVERY plant (other then the moss) in my 75g came from petsmart!
2 years, and still going strong. don't know why people are so down on them. they are cheap (7.99-8.99 a pack) snail, algae and contaminant free.
and grow very well in my opinion!

sorry no shots of me planting the repens but you can see in some shots how far they've come














































































































































I know my tank is so ugly with these "petsmart" plants, I guess i'll just have to live with it:hihi:

































































sorry for the rant:icon_sad:


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## buckwheet (Apr 29, 2014)

jfynyson said:


> Buckwheet, I think it's safe to say we'd all love to have a s. Repents carpet like yours. We'll done!


 
thank you! very much

(I really didn't mean to come off sounding like a jerk in my last post)
but I said it, and i'll stick by it


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## jfynyson (Apr 15, 2013)

buckwheet said:


> thank you! very much
> 
> (I really didn't mean to come off sounding like a jerk in my last post)
> but I said it, and i'll stick by it


I didn't take it that way, no worries


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## jfynyson (Apr 15, 2013)

I concur regarding the TC plants from petsmart / topfin. I tried the ARs and they've been great. I will have to try the s repens if I can ever find some in the store that are no yellow or brown. Same goes for the downoi.


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## tenthe (Dec 29, 2013)

In case anyone was wondering, my s. repens grew back with a vengeance. I actually had to trim and yank a bunch out last week because of how bushy they were growing. 

I'm chalking up the melt to a delayed adjustment to being submerged. All of the plants recovered, and their new leaves have a very different structure than the emersed growth. When they were growing emersed, the leaves were very large and broad. They resembled anubias a bit. The leaves which grew after the melt are much smaller, narrower and more numerous. I think the plant just had to adapt to its new conditions.


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## Positron (Jul 22, 2013)

Just to update this, like other my repens grew back in a crazy way. It took a few weeks, but everything is lush and green again.

It's quite odd.


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## kcoscia (Jul 24, 2013)

Mine did this too. No idea why. Just removed it and what's left is doing fine!


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## DefStatic (Feb 19, 2013)

Not to thread hyjack, but does this plant require CO2 or is it just recommended? I was looking at purchasing a batch to put around a rock in my 30 gallon. I low Tech EI dose, but thats it.


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## Positron (Jul 22, 2013)

I've never tried to grow repens with no co2, but I would imagine it would probably require atleast some co2 in the water. I find that small, low growing plants have a much tougher time of things in the co2 department.

P.S It's good to see a fellow Mainer around here!


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## DefStatic (Feb 19, 2013)

Positron said:


> I've never tried to grow repens with no co2, but I would imagine it would probably require atleast some co2 in the water. I find that small, low growing plants have a much tougher time of things in the co2 department.
> 
> P.S It's good to see a fellow Mainer around here!


Hahaha, I just noticed the same about you in another thread. There are a few of us in the state subsection.

I have read mixed information about this plant. Some say it will be fine just will grow slow, some say it wont work without CO2.


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## mattcham (Mar 7, 2014)

Sorry to bring this old 5 month thread back. My S. repens just underwent major melt. I have a few interesting observations that have not been mentioned, so read my story and tell me what you think.

I bought the tissue culture Staurogene Repens from petsmart in March 2014. I kept these plants in a low light tank (30-40 PAR at substrate) with zero CO2, zero ferts, and very heavy fish bioload. The plants grew to about 3x its original plant "volume" in 4 months.

In late August 2014, I started a high tech 125 gallon tank and put the S. repens on the far left and far right corners of this 6 foot long tank. Used EI fert dosing, high light (100 PAR at substrate) and obviously pressurized CO2 (@30 ppm). By early October 2014 (a little over a month later), the S. repens had rapidly spread to about 4x the initial plant "volume" that I put into the big tank. Everything was perfect.

I bought some Amano shrimp and learned that they don't like high nitrates. I test my nitrate level and its was 160 ppm or greater (the liquid nitrate indicator turned red like fruit punch). I decide to stop dosing Nitrates and just double up my KPO4 and KSO4 dosing since KNO3 was no longer being added. I test my nitrates every other day while performing this modified EI dosing and usual water changes. One week later the S. Repens begins to melt, but it was minimal, affecting maybe 10% of my plants. Three days later, the melt is affecting 90% of the S repens. My nitrates are still 40 ppm at this time. All other plant species are still healthy and growing like weeds.

Today (2 days later) all the S Repens have lost all leaves. Only stems and roots are left. Will they bounce back?

Was the meltdown triggered by sudden drop in nitrates from 160 ppm to 40 ppm?
40 ppm nitrate is not low at all, but maybe the shock is what causes S repens meltdown?
By the way, I am sure the shrimp did not directly cause the S repens melt.

Any thoughts?


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## Knotyoureality (Aug 3, 2012)

No idea on the melt issue--but I can definitely confirm that stau. repens does quite well without C02. 

Picked up a pack of the PetSmart cultured plants that was marked down to clear it out--the oldest leaves at the base had started to turn brown and the roots had gone a little crazy but there was enough good green growth to make it worth trying ($5, no shipping, yippee!). When I cleaned it up I had about ten nice rooted pieces. It's only been in my 20g long for a couple weeks and I've already doubled the number of plants trimming and replanting---moderate lights, moderate ferts, no excel, no C02, very light bioload, sand substrate with a light scattering of root tabs (1/4 Pfertz root tab every 4" or so). It's growing reasonably well--just more slowly-- in my 37g which, although it has the same light, has drastically less par due to the depth, with the same sand substrate, no root tabs near the area I planted them in, and low level daily ferts/no excel/no c02.


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## ichy (Apr 6, 2015)

Resurrecting this old thread because my S. reopens is going through this melt process!

I thought a fish or snail was eating it when it started as small hole, but now it spread to about 1/4 of my carpet.
The exposed stems have little leaves and good roots so I'm hoping this will bounce back!

Wow, once this starts, it goes quick!


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## bpb (Mar 8, 2011)

It should. Mine melted entirely to bare stems and now is super thick a couple months later. This is super common with s repens. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Mow it down to the substrate. It'll come back better than before


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