# ECO-COMPLETE sucks



## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

my plants never grew the same as they did in the black sand flourite. IMO eco complete sucks even though they claim it got many nutrients.


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## jcardona1 (Jun 27, 2008)

I wouldn't be so fast to blame the substrate. I've used it, as have many others, with great results. I'm sure lies somewhere else.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

There is no such thing as a "complete" substrate. You will always need water column ferts. Even top of the line substrates need supplemented with some sort of root fert eventually.


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## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

chad320 said:


> There is no such thing as a "complete" substrate. You will always need water column ferts. Even top of the line substrates need supplemented with some sort of root fert eventually.



i have done both, liquid and root tabs, unless you are saying root medic tabs sucks? pressurized co2 with 4dkh drop checker, 50% water change every week with EI dosing, 2x54w Catalina fixture. 

the only thing i could blame is the hard water, there is nothing else left to blame then. i know substrate is the most important of all, in the past i have great results with fluorite sand, no root tabs at that time, just EI dosing and co2, and plants were growing very well.


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## Danh Vu (Jul 3, 2010)

happi said:


> i have done both, liquid and root tabs, unless you are saying root medic tabs sucks? pressurized co2 with 4dkh drop checker, 50% water change every week with EI dosing, 2x54w Catalina fixture.
> 
> the only thing i could blame is the hard water, there is nothing else left to blame then. i know substrate is the most important of all, in the past i have great results with fluorite sand, no root tabs at that time, just EI dosing and co2, and plants were growing very well.


There are other factors at play here. Both Flourite and Eco Complete are inert.
No one is saying anything sucks. Just you.


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## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

Danh Vu said:


> There are other factors at play here. Both Flourite and Eco Complete are inert.
> No one is saying anything sucks. Just you.


am saying it sucks because i spend allot of money on it and it did not give good results as people claim here, i had better results with the flourite sand in the past, which people claim here not to be better than eco.


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## Danh Vu (Jul 3, 2010)

Who claims it is better? It is up to personal preference though. 
Can you explain how your plants are growing different? Maybe we can find a solution.


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## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

Danh Vu said:


> Who claims it is better?



i cannot make a list now, because there are many people who here will go for eco complete, i was also recommend this by many people here when i was setting up my tank again. 

unless petco sold me 10 year old substrate


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## Phish (Apr 29, 2009)

I have always used Eco-complete and it has always been great.


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## NJAquaBarren (Sep 16, 2009)

I have eco in two tanks and it is fine. To work with, I prefer it to flourite and AS.

It needs fertilization, as it doesn't have nutrients like AS or MTS, but even those will need supplimentation eventually.

It does have high CEC so it is a good base for fertilization. 

Plants are doing great in both tanks.


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## Danh Vu (Jul 3, 2010)

10 year old substrate would not matter. 

As said before, both substrates are inert. They however do have a high CEC.
Eco complete is easier to plant in and looks better, but I don't really care :fish:. 

Your EI dosing should replenish nutrients in the substrate. Hows your water flow?


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## gnovince (Dec 14, 2010)

I have a 26 gallon with flourite, and a newer 20 gallon tank with eco-complete and thus far I'm loving eco-complete! My plants have never looked so good! Sorry your not liking it, but I sure am!


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Were the plants that grew good before also in the same hard water? If so, we can eliminate that. I would look towards lighting, flow, and proper Co2 distribution. Temperature can weigh pretty heavily as well.


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## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

Danh Vu said:


> 10 year old substrate would not matter.
> 
> As said before, both substrates are inert. They however do have a high CEC.
> Eco complete is easier to plant in and looks better, but I don't really care :fish:.
> ...



50g tank
2x rena xp2
koralia 1


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## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

i dont want to overdose the substrate with the roots tabs, in the past it has caused ammonia problems for me.


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## gnovince (Dec 14, 2010)

Danh Vu said:


> 10 year old substrate would not matter.
> 
> As said before, both substrates are inert. They however do have a high CEC.
> Eco complete is easier to plant in and looks better, but I don't really care :fish:.
> ...


That is a GREAT point about easier to plant! There's nothing like taking a nice healthy stem plant and sticking that sucker right in with ease! I wish I had eco in both tanks just cause of that!


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## tuffgong (Apr 13, 2010)

happi said:


> i dont want to overdose the substrate with the roots tabs, in the past it has caused ammonia problems for me.


I'm pretty sure OverStocked has used at least 50 or 60 (maybe more) of his root caps in his substrate to no ill effects. I use root medic in all of my tanks in heavy quantities. I have several crypts with at least 6 root caps surrounding them. I'm not sure if you experienced ammonia problems with Root Medic caps but I thought I might chime in.

I do like Fluorite and Fluorite Black Sand better than EcoComplete, but that's mainly b/c of color and consistency.


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## Francis Xavier (Oct 8, 2008)

If you suffer from heavy water (like we do in Texas) I would always go the aquasoil route when possible as all types of Aquasoil lower PH, it is also unnecessary to supplement with root fertilizers (short of the soil being a few years old). Each 9L bag contains 21 lbs of aquasoil, which is enough to use one bag on an 18 gallon tank.


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## Dan the Man (Sep 8, 2009)

Oh you wouldn't would ya...eh eh *elbows Frank*


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## Geniusdudekiran (Dec 6, 2010)

Agreed! GO FLOURITE!


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## acropora1981 (May 30, 2010)

chad320 said:


> There is no such thing as a "complete" substrate. You will always need water column ferts. Even top of the line substrates need supplemented with some sort of root fert eventually.


chad, lol at aquarium herpes! so true, damn duckweed!

sorry...back to your thread


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## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

looks like i have to add more root tabs, even though most of my plants are stem plants, only some are rooted plants.


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## Danh Vu (Jul 3, 2010)

Tell us how that goes! Thats what TPT is for!


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## Indignation (Mar 9, 2008)

Happi - have you tested KH/GH in your tank vs. tap? It's possible you got a bad batch of Eco-complete, they had a problem a while back with excess calcium carbonate.


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## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

Indignation said:


> Happi - have you tested KH/GH in your tank vs. tap? It's possible you got a bad batch of Eco-complete, they had a problem a while back with excess calcium carbonate.


TDS will go up for the first few week, which i heard is completely normal. after one month it stays normal and it reads around 250ppm, which is my tap water hardness also.


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## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

chad320 said:


> Were the plants that grew good before also in the same hard water? If so, we can eliminate that. I would look towards lighting, flow, and proper Co2 distribution. Temperature can weigh pretty heavily as well.


lights are good, the temp is set to 80F even though its not 80F due to cold weather. 

you are saying 2x renaxp2 and koraila 1 is not enough flow for 50g?

yes the water is same as it use to be and plant grew very well. co2 is diffused by Atomic co2 diffuser 65mm (inside the tank).


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## Danh Vu (Jul 3, 2010)

Your Koralia and two renas should provide enough flow depending on where you position them. Is the co2 dispersed well?


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## takadi (Dec 13, 2010)

I like flourite, but I switched to ecocomplete because flourite is incredibly dirty. I'm not sure how the CEC's of the two substrates compare but I know similar substances to flourite like turface are highly recommended for soilless mixes for terrestrial planting.


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## barbarossa4122 (Jan 16, 2010)

I bought my Eco from petco also. I use 5-6 RM and /or Osmocote Plus root tabs per square foot..........replacing them every 3 months. The plants are doing great and never had any ammonia spikes.


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## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

barbarossa4122 said:


> I bought my Eco from petco also. I use 5-6 RM and /or Osmocote Plus root tabs per square foot..........replacing them every 3 months. The plants are doing great and never had any ammonia spikes.



replacing mean adding more while leaving the old one there?


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## barbarossa4122 (Jan 16, 2010)

happi said:


> replacing mean adding more while leaving the old one there?


The old one will be gone after 3 months.


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## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

am waking up this thread again, which was dead for a while.

i have done everything correctly and Eco complete simply cannot even grow the most easiest plant like crypt, hairgrass etc. i have grown all these wonderfully in the past under flourite sand, here is a good evidence that flourite sand grow all the plant at very fast and healthy growth, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAR7FnvIdBE

am getting sick of my plants not being able to grow under this eco substrate, i feel like i need to restart my tank again with flourite again. looks like i will loose about $100 which i spent on junk called eco complete. 

where should i dump this c***, outside, throw it away in garbage?

people will suggest EI dosing and co2 etc, i have done both and nothing is growing due to eco complete.

for those who is buying eco, please stay away from it.


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## nilocg (Jul 12, 2010)

happi said:


> am waking up this thread again, which was dead for a while.
> 
> i have done everything correctly and Eco complete simply cannot even grow the most easiest plant like crypt, hairgrass etc. i have grown all these wonderfully in the past under flourite sand, here is a good evidence that flourite sand grow all the plant at very fast and healthy growth, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAR7FnvIdBE
> 
> ...




I could not agree with you more. I had nothing but problems with it, I have better luck with PFS 10x's over.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

You guys are right. This tank is Eco-complete and nothing will grow.:icon_roll


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## gordonrichards (Jun 20, 2009)

switch to azoo plant grower bed.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Ive got them all and I dont see much difference in the medium. Only in the ferts and Co2.


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## astrosag (Sep 3, 2010)

I would save the eco-complete and use it as filler/base...perhaps you should try to find some use for it to get at least some value out of your $100 purchase. 

Try a mountainscape or a hill that drops down to normal substrate level?

I hope your experiences with Eco-complete are unique...I just bought and laid down $40 worth. I've heard mostly positive reviews, just as the majority of the responses in this thread of yours reflect.


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## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

chad320 said:


> You guys are right. This tank is Eco-complete and nothing will grow.:icon_roll



are you serious? still growth looks weak, don't get me wrong. 

i just threw away hair grass with brown roots from the eco complete.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

That tank is 4 weeks old. Its definately something on your end. Have you tested your water?


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## Eden Marel (Jan 28, 2010)

I use Eco-Complete in two of my tanks, it works great for me. I used to use Seachem root tabs, which works, but now I use Root Medic just cuz. I think if you just use it by itself you won't see much progress unless other things in play.


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## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

astrosag said:


> I would save the eco-complete and use it as filler/base...perhaps you should try to find some use for it to get at least some value out of your $100 purchase.
> 
> Try a mountainscape or a hill that drops down to normal substrate level?
> 
> I hope your experiences with Eco-complete are unique...I just bought and laid down $40 worth. I've heard mostly positive reviews, just as the majority of the responses in this thread of yours reflect.


its not great at making hills either, i have tried it and its doesn't stay still, it will fall down before you could make a hill.


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## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

chad320 said:


> That tank is 4 weeks old. Its definately something on your end. Have you tested your water?



NH3 - 0 ppm
NO3 - 5 ppm
NO2 - 0 ppm
GH - 150 ppm
KH - 150 ppm
PH - 7.5
PO4 - 0.1 ppm
Ca - 175 mg/l
Mg - o mg/l


dosing EI and dosing Mg since it tested 0. not dosing any Ca at all, everything else is being dosed in the tank along with high co2 levels.


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## astrosag (Sep 3, 2010)

Happi you either don't have Eco-complete or you are just very pessimistic.

Even if we drop the effectiveness argument, there's almost no doubt that eco-complete is easier to set than many, if not most, substrates out there.

Drain your tank (which you'll have to do anyways). After you drain it, your substrate should still be wet. Pack it tightly and stack it on top of itself until you get your favored height. Use a flat edge or your palm to carefully slope it out. The set whatever substrate you like...it should set easily as it will grab onto the Eco-complete. Plant whatever it is you want to plant there...HC, glosso, mosses, etc. When you fill the tank up, don't pour water straight onto the substrate.

Substrate in tanks is normally very stable..there's no movement that is strong enough to unsettle it...and if there is, you're doing something very wrong.

Pretty simple here man...don't be so pessimistic lol.


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## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

Eden Marel said:


> I use Eco-Complete in two of my tanks, it works great for me. I used to use Seachem root tabs, which works, but now I use Root Medic just cuz. I think if you just use it by itself you won't see much progress unless other things in play.


first tank setup with flourite sand and no root tabs nothing, the plants grew supper fast and healthy (see the video). added some root tabs in the eco complete, nothing doing well, plus most of the plants cant roots deep enough to reach the root tabs. if root tabs are not buried deep enough in eco complete then it will simply release the fertilizers in the water.


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## astrosag (Sep 3, 2010)

happi said:


> NH3 - 0 ppm
> NO3 - 5 ppm
> NO2 - 0 ppm
> GH - 150 ppm
> ...


Now I'm pretty new and correct me I'm wrong, but regardless of what you use..flourite or eco-complete, neither is going to last you for a very long time. What happens then? Do you guys reset your substrate?

My point is, if I'm correct, that your plants get most of their nutrients from ferts, not the substrate regardless of flourite or eco. If thats true, then how could eco-complete (an inert substrate) be impeding your ability to grow plants given all things even? I don't see it.


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## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

astrosag said:


> Happi you either don't have Eco-complete or you are just very pessimistic.
> 
> Even if we drop the effectiveness argument, there's almost no doubt that eco-complete is easier to set than many, if not most, substrates out there.
> 
> ...



i cant mess with it now, unless i get rid of all my fishes and plant, and there are many of them in there. some stem plants are ok, but some rooted plants are not so great. too late for aquascaping now, maybe i can use the eco complete for something else.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Maybe you got a bad bag or the bottom of a batch or something. Can you get us a pic? A close up will help us assess whats going on. I also find that some RO water works better if that helps you any. Seems your water is a little on the hard side. Maybe a dilution would help? If all else fails I would keep it because its not bad stuff, but try freezing some dirtballs and placing them in it next to the plants. Especially if the tank is brand new. It will help speeding up the mulm and beneficial substrate bacteria.


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## Eden Marel (Jan 28, 2010)

astrosag said:


> Now I'm pretty new and correct me I'm wrong, but regardless of what you use..flourite or eco-complete, neither is going to last you for a very long time. What happens then? Do you guys reset your substrate?
> 
> My point is, if I'm correct, that your plants get most of their nutrients from ferts, not the substrate regardless of flourite or eco. If thats true, then how could eco-complete (an inert substrate) be impeding your ability to grow plants given all things even? I don't see it.


I don't reset mine, mine is 1 year and 1 month old. I just add new tabs every few months or so. Yea I dunno, it probably has to do with the water column.


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## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

astrosag said:


> Now I'm pretty new and correct me I'm wrong, but regardless of what you use..flourite or eco-complete, neither is going to last you for a very long time. What happens then? Do you guys reset your substrate?
> 
> My point is, if I'm correct, that your plants get most of their nutrients from ferts, not the substrate regardless of flourite or eco. If thats true, then how could eco-complete (an inert substrate) be impeding your ability to grow plants given all things even? I don't see it.



all i know is that when you first setup the tank with flourite, your plants will grow very well and then after 8-9 months later, your plants will not too good because most of the nutrients are gone from the substrate and root tabs might help, but you will not get the same growth even with roots tabs, as you seen in the beginning, but this is my own opinion and experience. 

most of the plants need fertilizer by their roots, most stem plants also have roots while they use fertilizers from the water.


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## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

chad320 said:


> Maybe you got a bad bag or the bottom of a batch or something. Can you get us a pic? A close up will help us assess whats going on. I also find that some RO water works better if that helps you any. Seems your water is a little on the hard side. Maybe a dilution would help? If all else fails I would keep it because its not bad stuff, but try freezing some dirtballs and placing them in it next to the plants. Especially if the tank is brand new. It will help speeding up the mulm and beneficial substrate bacteria.



you see that video chad, same plants were grown in much harder water at that time, because in the summer time my tap water is much harder compare to what it is now. it cannot be the water for sure. what you mean by adding dirt balls? i will post pictures of the plants and substrate when i get chance.


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## astrosag (Sep 3, 2010)

People seem to maintain their tanks ok just on water column and root ferts.

There must be something going on. Regardless, like I said, followed by you confirming, just find some ingenious use for it - I'm sure there's plenty of use you can find for it...this way at least, you avoid getting no value from your purchase.

Either way, to use that tank, you're going to have to move your livestock and drain it.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Take dirt from your yard. Or potting soil and wet it a little and make marble sized dirt balls and freeze them. Freezing them keeps them from falling apart when you shove them into the substrate. Dont worry, they wont harm you plants by being too cold, put them right next to them.


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## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

chad320 said:


> Take dirt from your yard. Or potting soil and wet it a little and make marble sized dirt balls and freeze them. Freezing them keeps them from falling apart when you shove them into the substrate. Dont worry, they wont harm you plants by being too cold, put them right next to them.



will just mix some peatmoss and organic choice soil and freeze it.


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## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

roots of hairgrass under eco complete:


















melting plants and roots









algae taking over









hairgrass turning brown









Help me, my fish said


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## reignOfFred (Jun 7, 2010)

I don't know anything scientific about it, but I can attest from very recent experience that the growth of my rooting plants has improved since mixing flourite into the substrate.since removing the eco-craplete isn't an option I'm going to add more fluorite for a deeper bed.


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## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

reignOfFred said:


> I don't know anything scientific about it, but I can attest from very recent experience that the growth of my rooting plants has improved since mixing flourite into the substrate.since removing the eco-craplete isn't an option I'm going to add more fluorite for a deeper bed.


so you are saying that mixing flourite with eco created a better plant growth for you? and eco alone did not improve the plant growth?


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## astrosag (Sep 3, 2010)

Yes, I think he's the second out of the twenty or so people to have a bad experience with Eco 

I think that's your best option right now. You'll get the growth with minor disruption to your tank. You don't pull as much value from your eco but its better than the alternative.

I say you redo your scape instead and use the eco as filler.


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

you can add me as number 3. waste of money.


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## H2OLOVER (Apr 29, 2010)

happi said:


> unless petco sold me 10 year old substrate


It wouldnt surprise me. LOL

I have used both in the past
flourite
flourite black sand
eco complete

im getting shrimp stratum to try

but ive had good growth with all of the above substrates

I noticed the plants pictured have send out runners in order to spread. that could be your problem
you cant compare a sand to a gravel type substrate IMO. there could be a problem with rooting. for me Vals and hairgrass grew better in lighter substrates than they did in heavier ones

BTW your fish does look sad. Faded colors. my gold ram has iridescent blue stripes and red highlights


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## xmas_one (Feb 5, 2010)

biting my tongue...


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## reignOfFred (Jun 7, 2010)

so you are saying that mixing flourite with eco created a better plant growth for you? and eco alone did not improve the plant growth?

Yes, and I swear it is not in my head LOL. I finally got my tank to where it was getting really amazing stem plant growth, but my heavy rooting plants still just kind of sat there all nice and green, but not really growing much. A couple bags of flourite at the front of my aquarium later and these same plants have sent out some runners and growth right has improved. From what I have read of course, I imagine my time with flourite helping is limited.


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## Vonzorfox (Nov 22, 2007)

After reading this thread http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/substrate/22252-floramax-vs-flourite.html I decided on the fluorite. I know this is floromax instead of eco but the answer is the same. I had eco in my 55 gallon for a year or so. For the first six months the plants grew like mad, then gradually not so great. Flourite will not deplete over the years you will use it.


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## bklyndrvr (May 24, 2008)

happi said:


> where should i dump this c***, outside, throw it away in garbage?
> 
> people will suggest EI dosing and co2 etc, i have done both and nothing is growing due to eco complete.
> 
> for those who is buying eco, please stay away from it.


Ship it to me. I'll pay for the shipping:thumbsup:


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## Green024 (Sep 19, 2009)

My cat seems to like Eco-complete..Emptied out two of my tanks, didn't take care of the substrate and she found it to be a great litter box with windows...... We know its good for something at least. It covered up the smell very well too :/


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## Vonzorfox (Nov 22, 2007)

^^^ lol ^^^


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## flwrbed (Apr 20, 2005)

i have a tank that is over 5 years now with eco complete.
i use a few root tabs around some of the plants that need them and do add ferts to the water. 

i have another tank that is about 3 years now on flourite. same deal on ferts.

i have great growth on both tanks. i don't think the substrate matters all that much, most are inert. 

NO OFFENSE, but looking at your pics, i would not blame the substrate. i would look into your lighting and co2. i see some algae and light colored leaves. 

if people can grow plants in play sand or turface, then you can grow plants in eco complete.

i can't grow all plants but its my inability, not the substrate. 

just my thoughts.


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## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

flwrbed said:


> i have a tank that is over 5 years now with eco complete.
> i use a few root tabs around some of the plants that need them and do add ferts to the water.
> 
> i have another tank that is about 3 years now on flourite. same deal on ferts.
> ...



people are able to grow plant under play sand because they add root tabs and other soils under it.


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## ExReefer (Jan 27, 2009)

happi said:


> people are able to grow plant under play sand because they add root tabs and other soils under it.


Exactly! You have to add root tabs and dose the water column with eco-complete as well.


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## Hannothan (Dec 26, 2010)

happi said:


> NH3 - 0 ppm
> NO3 - 5 ppm
> NO2 - 0 ppm
> GH - 150 ppm
> ...


You're EI dosing? Why are your nitrates and phosphates so low?

Tested one of the aquariums I EI dose and the nitrates are 15, phosphates 2.

I did just add my macros about 13 hours ago, but your still seem pretty low.


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## Robert H (Apr 3, 2003)

> Exactly! You have to add root tabs and dose the water column with eco-complete as well


So what? You could say that about any substrate. Flourite, ADA..whatever. All this is just talk and proves nothing and is highly subjective. There are tons of variables that affect plant growth. 

Substrates like these contain trace minerals, not MACROS. It is macro nutrients... nitrogen-phosphate and potassium that have the biggest and most noticeable affect on plant growth. Eco complete does exactly what it is supposed to do and thats providing minerals. Period. If you think its supposed to provide macros then you are severely mis informed!

Do you even know what Flourite is? It is PURE CLAY. Nothing else. Nothing magical. It provides mostly iron and thats it. Mixing it with Eco complete, which is also clay, would have no affect at all. What do you think Flourite is giving your plants that eco complete doesn't? Magic plant dust? 



> Flourite will not deplete over the years you will use it.


and niether does Eco complete. You get an endless supply of iron from either substrate. Unfortunetly it takes more than iron to grow plants


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## ktownhero (Mar 21, 2011)

Call me old fashioned, but I don't know you would expect anybody to diagnose your issue with all of the things you are doing that affect your water chemistry. I'm still a strong advocate of simpler and natural is better than complex and forced. Plants might not grow as fast in a simpler, less complicated tank set up but at least then you can have an idea of what is going on.

Why are you blaming your issue on the Eco-Complete when you have so much else going on? Too many variables in these highly dosed and fertilized tanks to jump to that conclusion so quickly.


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

Robert H said:


> So what? You could say that about any substrate. Flourite, ADA..whatever. All this is just talk and proves nothing and is highly subjective. There are tons of variables that affect plant growth.
> 
> Substrates like these contain trace minerals, not MACROS. It is macro nutrients... nitrogen-phosphate and potassium that have the biggest and most noticeable affect on plant growth. Eco complete does exactly what it is supposed to do and thats providing minerals. Period. If you think its supposed to provide macros then you are severely mis informed!
> 
> ...


 
+one.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Perhaps the problem is that eco-complete is different in many ways from the previous substrate you had. Thus it could be affecting the water column. I find dosing with Aqueon Plant Food helps my plants and fish to adjust. Perhaps because it has kelp in it. I get it for aprox. $7 at Pet Smart.

Personally I prefer to spend my money on plants and fish than substrate. Thus I go the cheap way and make up my own. 
1st Reptile coconut bark (1 in) for it add Co2 to substrate $3
2nd Scott's top soil, Scott's potting soil and laterite mixed ($2, 5, 20)
Ration 2:1:1
3rd River sand for topping.


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## ReefkprZ (Aug 21, 2010)

happi said:


> people are able to grow plant under play sand because they add root tabs and other soils under it.


I have a20 long with dead sand. all I use are osmocote home made root tabs and micro dose water column ferts. no other soils I grow plants like red tiger lotus DHG red crypt. if your saying crypt wont grow in eco complete, I wonder whats in my water that'll make em grow in sand, since your saying your dosing root tabs from root medic.

I understand that its easier to have something to blame than not knowing but I honestly thing you just havent found the problem yet. I would be more inclined to believe its the water hardness causing problems than bad substrate.


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## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

ReefkprZ said:


> I have a20 long with dead sand. all I use are osmocote home made root tabs and micro dose water column ferts. no other soils I grow plants like red tiger lotus DHG red crypt. if your saying crypt wont grow in eco complete, I wonder whats in my water that'll make em grow in sand, since your saying your dosing root tabs from root medic.
> 
> I understand that its easier to have something to blame than not knowing but I honestly thing you just havent found the problem yet. I would be more inclined to believe its the water hardness causing problems than bad substrate.


after switching to RO water things have been improved, plants took off quickly. i believe it was the water that was the main problem. the KH is what to blame for.


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## wakewalking (Jan 18, 2010)

with pure water (o tds) and eco complete that hasn't been rinsed, you get a kh 3-4 and a gh from 4-5 that slowly declines. There really isn't anything else you need for your plants, besides maybe some extra iron. I haven't added anything to a high light co2 tank for about two months and I am just starting to see very small potassium and iron deficiencies, which isn't a problem because I can slowly go to ei.

I have hairgrass also and it does fine.


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## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

happi said:


> after switching to RO water things have been improved, plants took off quickly. i believe it was the water that was the main problem. the KH is what to blame for.


i would take those word back, eco has created new problem for me now, some plants starting to grow well until GH and KH goes up again because of Eco-complete. 

follow this link:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/f...ers/137695-water-hardness-4-300-just-one.html

am never using eco again, it is worse substrate i ever used. i suggest those who are planning on buying this $%@* please stay away from it, espically if you planning on keeping those plants and fishes which need low KH and GH.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

happi said:


> i would take those word back, eco has created new problem for me now, some plants starting to grow well until GH and KH goes up again because of Eco-complete.


Have read that some have ammonia spikes with Eco-complete, thus I stick with dirt and sand from the area.

That fact that many have had great success with it makes me believe that it is a chemical reaction with Eco-complete and chemicals in your water that is causing the problem. For your tap water is obviously excessively treated by the city. 

You have to remember that when dealing with nature nothing is written in stone. An example is of one whom had 3 10 gallon tanks together. All set up the same and dosed with same ferts with 1 long bulb over them. The one in the middle had BBA problems.


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## DennisSingh (Nov 8, 2004)

happi said:


> i would take those word back, eco has created new problem for me now, some plants starting to grow well until GH and KH goes up again because of Eco-complete.
> 
> follow this link:
> 
> ...


Don't not recommend this substrate to people. Its a good substrate, I plan on buying it for my 17g. You most likely got a bad batch. I don't think the experienced hobbyist even go to petco for stuff, so it could've been from the bad batch they had a few ago.


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## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

StrungOut said:


> Don't not recommend this substrate to people. Its a good substrate, I plan on buying it for my 17g. You most likely got a bad batch. I don't think the experienced hobbyist even go to petco for stuff, so it could've been from the bad batch they had a few ago.


i ordered it from online petco, i don't think its a bad batch, but who know.


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## CaribSea (Apr 29, 2008)

Hi there Jud McCracken. sales manager and tech support @ CaribSea here. I have received email correspondence from Happi and will respond and try to get to the bottom of this issue. Fortunately we have had no problems with our eco products in years but there can still be instances where people do not have success even while using Eco (or insert tried and true product here). Try as I might I do have a hard time keeping up with forums so please direct any questions or comments to me at [email protected] I will try to keep abreast of this thread for a week or two as I have now been made aware.
Thanks,Jud


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## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

CaribSea said:


> Hi there Jud McCracken. sales manager and tech support @ CaribSea here. I have received email correspondence from Happi and will respond and try to get to the bottom of this issue. Fortunately we have had no problems with our eco products in years but there can still be instances where people do not have success even while using Eco (or insert tried and true product here). Try as I might I do have a hard time keeping up with forums so please direct any questions or comments to me at [email protected] I will try to keep abreast of this thread for a week or two as I have now been made aware.
> Thanks,Jud


hi Jud, thanks for looking into this issue, am looking forward to see it get solved.

there are many people who also had the same problems, here is another link: 

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/substrate/68450-eco-complete-bad.html


http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/substrate/17212-caution-high-phosphate-levels-corrupted-eco.html

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/substrates/54687-how-do-i-lower-my-kh.html


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## CaribSea (Apr 29, 2008)

Happi,

Just sent email before reading this last post. Since you sent receipt I thought you were done and just wanted to invoke the refund / replace guarantee. I would be happy to look into this further as well if for nothing else that it helps us provide a better product and helps the online community understand all of their aquariumms better. Sorry if I misunderstood.

Jud


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## DerCribben (Mar 15, 2011)

CaribSea said:


> Hi there Jud McCracken. sales manager and tech support @ CaribSea here. I have received email correspondence from Happi and will respond and try to get to the bottom of this issue. Fortunately we have had no problems with our eco products in years but there can still be instances where people do not have success even while using Eco (or insert tried and true product here). Try as I might I do have a hard time keeping up with forums so please direct any questions or comments to me at [email protected] I will try to keep abreast of this thread for a week or two as I have now been made aware.
> Thanks,Jud


Hey Jud, just for the record, I'm using Eco-Complete and the biggest problem I am having is needing to trim all of the rediculously healthy plants I have too often...all of my shrimp and fish seem to love this stuff too as they are thriving as well...keep up the great work my friend...roud:


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## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

CaribSea said:


> Happi,
> 
> Just sent email before reading this last post. Since you sent receipt I thought you were done and just wanted to invoke the refund / replace guarantee. I would be happy to look into this further as well if for nothing else that it helps us provide a better product and helps the online community understand all of their aquariumms better. Sorry if I misunderstood.
> 
> Jud


hi jud, 

i have sent you 3 emails and i wanted to include the receipt just in case if you ever asked for it.


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## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

DerCribben said:


> Hey Jud, just for the record, I'm using Eco-Complete and the biggest problem I am having is needing to trim all of the rediculously healthy plants I have too often...all of my shrimp and fish seem to love this stuff too as they are thriving as well...keep up the great work my friend...roud:


but you also need to understand that there were bad batches in the past and i must have gotten one. 

am not saying that Eco complete is a bad product, but experience i had with it wasn't so great. not all of us are going to run into the same problem, while some of us did have this issue.


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## Sharkfood (May 2, 2010)

I've always used regular flourite, mostly because I like the way it looks, and my plants have always grown well in it, but I'm not sure I buy the idea that it works for only 8 months, then needs recharged. It is my understanding that there are no real useable nutrients in flourite from day 1. I always thought of it as a neutral media, much like the hydroton in my hydro trays.


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## freddy5 (May 27, 2011)

Just set up my 75 with a 100 pounds of eco,love the way it looks and so far plants are doing good seeing new growth,it is still only 3 weeks old though.


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