# Algae over the tank walls. (Please help)



## kamla (Feb 17, 2005)

Algae over the tank walls.

o.k. I have 72 gal bow front planted tank.
I had 1.3 watts/gal of NO on and no algae.
Then in upgraded my lighting to 3.6 watts/gal added a 2 liter DIY co2 with a DIY reactor
Lights on for 10 hrs a day. Very minimum sunlight.

Now I have algae growing on the walls of the tank, it can be easily removed with a scraper. But I hate doin it every 2 days. I also have some brown alge (not too much)

Please help

Here are my tank details
Size of Tank (Gallons / Litres): 72
Running for how long: 2 months

Water Params
-------------------
Temp: 79
pH: 7.0
Ammonia (ppm): 0
NitrIte (ppm): 0
NitrAte (ppm): 10
KH (degrees): 6
GH (degrees): 5
Ferts you are using (what and how often): none
CO2 (Type & Level): DIY 2 liter with DIY CO2 internal reactor 
Ferts: Flourish and Flourish Execl (dosed according to label)

Lighting 65*4 PC (3.6watts/gal)
-------------------

Flora:
10 Saggitaria Subulata (Narrow Leaf) 
10 Saggitaria Dwarf (subulata, dwarf)
3 steams Hornwort (Ceratophyllum demersum) 
2 Microsorium pteropus "Java Fern" 
2 Anubias Nana 
1 Echinodorus Barthi "Broadleaf amazon" 
10 Sagittaria subulata "needle leaf" 
10 Vallisneria tortifolia "Corkscrew" 
2 Cryptocoryne wendtii "Red" 
2 Cryptocoryne wendtii "Green" 
1 Cryptocoryne Lutea 
12 steams of fast growing steam plant (don’t know the name, I think its Tonina fluviatalis, very drak green in color)

Fauna:
6 Zebra Danios
2 Zebra Danios "Long Fin"
2 Platies 
2 Siamese Algae Eaters
2 Ded Dwarf Gouramis
4 Tetras
2 Blue rams
2 mollies
9 Ghost shrimp

Ps sorry about the long post...


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## GTApuffgal (Feb 7, 2005)

*Algae over the tank walls. (Please help)*

Kamla, you will probably get a lot more good information from others, but having just lived through the same scenario (major light upgrade and CO2 addition), I had the exact same thing. Started ratcheting up the ferts as well and ended up with those nasty little tank wall buggers AND green water... 

I read somewhere here to have a dark time mid-day because the plants will utilize the light immediately whereas the algae needs a little time to get moving on it. I still run a 12 hour lighting period, but my timer is set to turn off the lights between 2 and 4 pm. I even go so far as to throw a blanket over the front of the tank during this period so no daylight from the windows across the room makes it through. I also put the blanket on at night because my lights don't come on until 10am and the windows face the east and the tank is BLASTED with sunlight first thing in the morning.

I have ZERO scientific evidence to back this up, but just have the feeling that this is what has stopped that nasty tank wall algae. 

Water changes out the wazoo and UV nuked the green water! I think... :wink: 

Kathy


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## BSS (Sep 24, 2004)

How long have the new lights been in place? You state something has been in place for two months. Is that the whole setup (including the no algae phase) or is that the time since the new lights was added?

Here's my best guess with the data. You've gone from a stable, low-light setup to a new, high octane, high-light setup which is looking for a balance. You don't mention any PO4 (phospate) levels. If the algae on the glass is green spot, then it can be attacked with increased PO4 levels. I've recently gone up to 2.0 ppm in my tank to address this. Also with the size of the tank and the 3+WPG, DIY CO2 might create a bit of a "challenge". Certainly there are some that do DIY on a tank that large, but most would recommend pressurized for that size tank. 

Perhaps you could take out one or two of your 65w light bulbs for a while until things stabilize. Then add the bulbs back one at a time?

Good luck, and keep the details/questions coming!
Brian.


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## kamla (Feb 17, 2005)

Thax for th e replies…
The tank has been set up for 2 months..
New light and CO2 added 2 weeks ago , that’s when the green algae developed.

I have some green spots, but most of the places the glass has a sort of haze on it and a couple of days later a green tilt, then it start to get greener and greener…

I have been added KNO3 to keep Nitirates @ 7~10 ppm
And Phosphate KH2PO4 keeping it @ .5 ppm..

I will up the Phosphate to 2ppm over next 2 days..
I will also reduce lights as you suggested.. will keep them @ 1.8watts per gal

Oohh I also have this brown algae growing in some places… very soft can be wiped off ..

Also some plants have developed brown spots on them..

I will take pics when I get home ..

Thanks again for you help


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## kamla (Feb 17, 2005)

Will my changes help or what guys...


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

GTApuffgal said:


> I read somewhere here to have a dark time mid-day because the plants will utilize the light immediately whereas the algae needs a little time to get moving on it.
> Kathy


Hi, this is my first post here. Hello! 

That's very interesting if it's true. The first thing that came to my mind was using a timer to switch the lights on and off every five minutes for a week, so the plants can continue to use the light all day long, but the algae dies off.

A blackout for the algae, but not for the plants!

Or is that too crazy an idea? It might give the fish headaches though!


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

:help: 

It sounds like 'water torture'.


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## kamla (Feb 17, 2005)

awrieger said:


> switch the lights on and off every five minutes for a week, so the plants can continue to use the light all day long, but the algae dies off.



OOHH my god. That going to get annoying to fish and to you.
Plus the constant on/off will not be good for your lights.

I had or still have a problem with green alage over the tank walls.
My nutrients levels were good. 
So I change my lighting hr to see if it effects anything.
I have the light son form 10ap tp 1:00 then from 5:00 till 9:30.
And what do you know..
That algae did not come back ..

But before you go do the same thing.. 
I have noticed that the algae comes back only when I am running out of CO2 (I have DIY CO2)

Make sure you [email protected] level are up and constant.
I have to deal with this till I can buy a pressurized CO2 system

HTH


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Hehe, I was just thinking it wouldn't just be the fish getting a headache!

So that seriously works? Simply dividing the day into two parts with a four hour gap? Wow, I might try that myself now, thanks! Having big fat goldfish, short of doing daily water changes, I can't contain the levels of phosphate and nitrates as well as I would otherwise like to (not even filter media like Phosguard can cope with it), so I desperately need to find another solution to the algae which is the accursed bane of my life.

But I see your total hours of light only add up to 7.5 hours. Would the reduced total of hours not be the biggest factor, rather than the gap between them? How are your plants growing with the reduced light time?


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## anonapersona (Oct 19, 2002)

*why a gap can help*

If your CO2 is insufficient, then turning the lights out to allow it to build up may help. Better, though, to crank up the CO2.


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## kamla (Feb 17, 2005)

awrieger - in my tank the algae is not caused by light, but by the lack of co2.
add more co2 and if ur plants are healthy they will out compete the alage..
that it..
IMO


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Thanks for tip. So the key is CO2, or lack of it? Okay, I'll try it on my non-CO2 tanks instead then. 

I'm assuming then that this 'siesta' tactic won't work on my main tank where the CO2 is already cranked up to in excess pf 30ppm? (or so I think it is because there are several different CO2 charts to compare with - my KH is 10-11 and the pH is 7.05.)

It's not a matter of my plants outcompeting the algae for nutrients, because there's always plenty enough to start an algae farm no matter what I do. With big, fat goldfish, I can't contain the PO4 and NO3 low enough for any longer than a day or two, so I was really hoping this light trick would give me another option.

I guess with big goldfish, I picked the most difficult way to have a planted tank in every way possible!


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## ceg4048 (Mar 26, 2004)

awrieger said:


> Thanks for tip. So the key is CO2, or lack of it? Okay, I'll try it on my non-CO2 tanks instead then.
> 
> I'm assuming then that this 'siesta' tactic won't work on my main tank where the CO2 is already cranked up to in excess pf 30ppm? (or so I think it is because there are several different CO2 charts to compare with - my KH is 10-11 and the pH is 7.05.)
> 
> ...



FYI - Siesta is a myth. It does nothing to help plants and only helps the algae because they respond much faster to changes in the environment. You can lower the light intensity or the total duration but doing a siesta forces the plants to stop and start the photosynthesis mechanism. Growth is stunted. Do your plants a favor and stop it.

As far as PO4 and NO3 levels it's very likely that you do not have enough of these nutrients. You are exactly right when you say that the plants do not compete with the algae. Algae are opportunists and therefore proliferate at _minimum_ nutrient levels. Plants do well with maximum levels and algae tend to be supressed at these levels. As BSS pointed out, when the extra light was added to kamla's tank the nutrient uptake rate of the plants increased causing a carbon, and NPK deficiency. The plants suffered and algae were invited to propogate. So instead of trying to maintain a minimum level of NO3 & PO4 it would be better to maintain a target level of NPK, CO2 and traces.


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## Anthony (Jan 11, 2005)

> "Algae are opportunists"


 , that's exactly what I thought. They always seem to attack your slower growing or more delicated plants before anything else;which then die faster, contributing to the problem.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

With the fish present, my PO4 and NO3 levels have never been low, especially as the tapwater already had 1ppm of phosphate before I even begin, and the lionhead food has 1.2% phosphorous in it as well. 

I recently read a lot of stuff about removing one of the key nutrients to control algae. So I thought I'd try it and have been struggling every which way for the last two months to drop the PO4 and keep it there, and have only just this past fortnight managed to achieve keeping it below 0.25. Although the fact it's no longer testing as present in my tapwater probably has a lot more to do with it than any of my own efforts! (very strange they would remove it though).

Now after reading your advice and also through several dozen of the threads on here about the topic, I see that's not the generally accepted way to go about it! 

Okay, so I need to ensure full doses of everything. That's good news. Makes it a lot easier as attempting to minimise the PO4 was very difficult. And it doesn't seem to be working anyway, so I'm quite happy to scrap that idea.


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## Anthony (Jan 11, 2005)

There's nothing wrong with 1ppm of phosphate as long as it is proportion (usually 10:1 with nitrate). If you are trying to keep it at .25 you might be bottoming out on phosphate, actually causing algae since phosphate is 1 of the 3 macronutrients plants need. I myself get lees algae, especially green spot and dust, when phosphate is around 1.5-3 ppm with nitrates at 10-15ppm(usually higher)


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## lumpyfunk (Dec 22, 2004)

BIG problem that I see is that you are only using 1 2l DIY for c02 on a 70 gal!!!

If you are going the DIY route, add 2 more bottles at least according to the charts you are at about 15 ppm c02, try getting it up to 30 and that should help


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## Badcopnofishtank (Jan 20, 2004)

Without higher C02 levels that much light will cause more and more algae. Consider investing in compressed C02...its worth it in the long run. At the very least set up triple the amount of reactors you have running now. Do not forget the check valves. Your C02 levels are way too low to combat the algae problem. 

Do massive 100-175% water changes scraping / rubbing all the algae off everything you can and bathe infected plants in a 1 part bleach per 20 parts water solution for no longer than 2 minutes. Rinse them extremely well after the dip and replant them. 

Good luck and keep us posted.


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