# Fish for high pH



## AlecFish (Nov 26, 2011)

I have a 75 gallon planted up and running and I'm curious to see what you guys think. First off let me give you my water parameters.
pH- 8-8.2
gH- 7
kH- 7
Ammonia- 0
Nitrite- 0 
Nitrate- 0

Livestock.
Black Phantom Tetra- 7 ( 1 of which is showing ich) I got them 2 weeks ago
3 Amanos
50+? RCS

I quarantined the one with ich. It's weird, I noticed a spot last night, woke up this morning and the spot has basically disappeared, it's now a tiny little thing. I'm not sure if its ich or what but for now he's quarantined in a 5g. Is it anything?

So my understanding is that if I have stable water conditions I shouldn't be having problems, right? But is a pH of 8 and moderately hard water a problem with keeping tetras in general. From what I've read black phantom's are supposed to be hardy. I bought them 2 weeks ago did a 2 hour drip acclimation. The conditions at the store I got them at runs at a pH of 7 and pretty soft water. I'm thinking about bringing them back...But yeah, I've considered adding peat to my filter but I don't really want to mess with it, I'd probably have problems down the road if I keep messing with it. 

I'm looking for some ideas on future fish as well, I'm looking for some schooling fish stay small so I can keep a good amount. I was thinking of getting 8 or so Praecox rainbows pretty positive they do fine in high pH. I know cichlids and livebearers like this water but I feel like platies, mollies and guppies are way to overused. 

I'm curious to see what you guys think and looking for some advice on fish in general.


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## Royal Pleco (Sep 11, 2011)

I have similar water conditions, high ph and hard water... Look into some Endlers livebearers. They are going to be my next purchase. I have bloodfin tetras (very hardy) peppered corys, BN plecos, and some otos, and amanos all doing fine in ph of 8.0


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

If you are somewhat new to fishkeeping and have trouble with the smaller weaker types, I would recommend looking at cichlids. They are far hardier in most cases and there are so many kinds that there is a type for almost every situation. I would suggest going over to a cichlid forum that will have tons of info and pictures of cichlids. From looking through the group you will be able to find many that will do fine in your water. Just don't take it as firm info when they tell you the PH, GH, KH required. Many fish are bred in ponds in Florida and still don't know what the African lakes look like! They are very adaptable fish that thrive in lots of water that is not as stated in the specs.


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## cowfish007 (Sep 9, 2011)

Mollies do fine with a higher pH. Some people acclimate them to full saltwater.


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## JustJen (Jun 20, 2011)

If you provide clean water and stable parameters, you will be amazed how well most fish will adapt to your water. My pH is 8.2 with a kH of near 20, and I've kept angels, rams, neons, diamond tetras, black neons, lemon tetras, glowlight danios, several varieties of cories, a couple different types of plecos, killies, bettas, otos, blue velvet shrimp, cherry shrimp, amanos, celebes rainbows, gertrude rainbows, furcata rainbows, dwarf neon rainbows, guppies, platies, swords, and plenty I'm forgetting. Without fail, everything has adapted just fine (even have angels and rams that will spawn fairly regularly - they're in community tanks though so any fry that make it to hatch are quickly made into snacks). Providing a stable environment is key, if you do that, the vast majority of fish are going to adapt just fine to your water.

My only disclaimer: The ONE exception I've encountered was the cardinal tetra. Tank raised fared much better than wild caught, but I couldn't keep any alive longer than 9-12 months. Someone on here had said that because they are mostly wildcaught (and the ones that aren't are only a generation or two removed at this point), their organs just aren't equipped to deal with the hard water and their organs will eventually fail. The "soft water" fish that have been tank raised for generations now are much better adapted to dealing with less than ideal parameters.


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## AlecFish (Nov 26, 2011)

Thanks Justjen that's reassuring. I'm not going to mess with the pH in any way and keep doing what I've been doing and hopefully everything will fall in place. I had another question about adding fish. How long of a time period should I have with adding more fish?

Rich, are there any cichlids you know off the top of your head that are peaceful and do well in my water?


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## JustJen (Jun 20, 2011)

Since you aren't sure that your fish even had ich, I'd personally wait 10 days before adding more fish. By that point, if anything else is infected, it should be showing up. That's assuming the tank if fully cycled (the only reason I bring that up is that you mentioned 0 nitrate, which is rare in a cycled tank).


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## jtilley (Mar 18, 2013)

Bolivian rams are what I am currently looking into and they do ok in a high ph as long as its stable from what ive heard.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

jtilley said:


> Bolivian rams are what I am currently looking into and they do ok in a high ph as long as its stable from what ive heard.


nope, don't think so.. not in the 8 ph range.


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## jtilley (Mar 18, 2013)

mistergreen said:


> nope, don't think so.. not in the 8 ph range.


This thread has some people keeping rams at our near 8.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?p=5142554#post5142554

A website that you can order them from said 7.5 and I would assume they would go down a bit for safety. That way people can't say they are wrong.


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## AlecFish (Nov 26, 2011)

JustJen said:


> Since you aren't sure that your fish even had ich, I'd personally wait 10 days before adding more fish. By that point, if anything else is infected, it should be showing up. That's assuming the tank if fully cycled (the only reason I bring that up is that you mentioned 0 nitrate, which is rare in a cycled tank).


Oh, must have not caught myself there. Nitrate is at .5 mg. It isn't much but it makes sense I have 7 small fish in a big tank. And yeah, I'll wait a couple weeks before I add anything else, I'm in no rush. 

Any ideas on a centerpiece fish, something larger because I'll have 2 schooling species in there once I get the rainbows. 

Also a bit curious about halfbeaks in particular, celebes halfbeak. Top water fish from what I've read do well in higher pH's. Tell me watch ya think.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

jtilley said:


> This thread has some people keeping rams at our near 8.
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?p=5142554#post5142554
> 
> A website that you can order them from said 7.5 and I would assume they would go down a bit for safety. That way people can't say they are wrong.


There's a difference between living and thriving. High pH usually means high kH, gH, TDS. Usually not good for soft water fish.


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## Grah the great (Jul 3, 2013)

mistergreen said:


> nope, don't think so.. not in the 8 ph range.


Even the cichlid forum states that the ideal range for bolivians is between 6 and 7.8 and a neutral water hardness...they are not true soft water fish like the german blue ram. Obviously that doesn't mean they should be put in a 8.5 PH tanganyikan biotope, but if they have shade and cover (I.E PLANTS!), they'll live, thrive, and even breed in most normal aquarium water without further doctoring.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

Grah the great said:


> Even the cichlid forum states that the ideal range for bolivians is between 6 and 7.8 and a neutral water hardness...they are not true soft water fish like the german blue ram. Obviously that doesn't mean they should be put in a 8.5 PH tanganyikan biotope, but if they have shade and cover (I.E PLANTS!), they'll live, thrive, and even breed in most normal aquarium water without further doctoring.


yeah, if they're farm raised, they're more tolerant as well compared to wild caught.


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## AlecFish (Nov 26, 2011)

Bolivian rams would be a great centerpiece, but then again I don't want to stress them and I'm not sure about me getting some any time soon considering the cold. But, are there many schooling tetras/rasboras in their natural habitat in which live in alkaline conditions? Gimme some ideas, I sort of impulse purchased the phantoms. I was hoping that they would school but from what there doing now is there hanging out near the bottom not doing much, kinda nippy too...


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## JustJen (Jun 20, 2011)

I had bolivians in my water (8.2pH, near 20 kH, very low gH) for a while as well as electric blues and golds. All did just fine and were/are bright, active, and healthy. The golds spawn very regularly but their babies always end up a snack for the other fish (or their parents) in their community tank after a day or two. The electric blues I had a while back were purchased from a breeder with very similar water conditions, so mine had several generations behind them that had been in harder/more alkaline water, so that may have contributed to them handling my conditions as well as they did.

Can't speak for natural habitats, but I've got lemon tetras, diamond tetras, and neons in my tanks. My neighbor on the same water has congo tetras, rasboras, ember tetras, bloodfin tetras, and probably some others that I don't remember. Cardinals, rummies, green tetras, and some others are definitely out in our conditions, but the others are bright and healthy and active with the lemons and diamonds for sure breeding (other may be too, those are just the only ones that have had a baby survive the community tank long enough to know what it was).


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## canlax (Sep 8, 2012)

Just thought I would provide some feedback given I have similar water parameters:

Rams haven't done well. If you want paired fish that spawns well I would consider Kribensis - mine have thrived very well (other than aggression issues)

I have a large school of Red Phantom Tetras - they have done extremely well. I have had them over a year and haven't seen a single death. When you see them in the store they are very drab looking but after 1-2 weeks of being home and eating good food they are a pretty awesome looking fish and contrast well against green plants. They shoal more than school though.

Praecox / Melanotaenia rainbows have done really well but I found you have to take extra care in quarantining and acclimatizing appropriately. Once you get more than 4 they school nicely.

BN plecos - have done awesome. 

Angels have done really well, I have had only 1 death of a black angel which in general are not as hardy as other angels due to how they are bred.

Harlequin Rasboras - I am divided on this one. I have had numerous deaths but I am not sure if it is disease in the group I got, or the water parameters. A year after purchasing 25 I have 12-13 that school with the rainbows. I wouldn't get these again. 

Hope this insight helps with your decision making.


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