# Oil Dry - Safe-T-Sorb



## OverStocked

The problem with oil dry is breakdown. And it is SUPER dirty. I ran my 75 g with it for a while and uncapped, couldn't handle it at all. Then capped, it ends up getting messy. 

You could soak it in a bucket with a dilute fert mixture, and even more importantly some calcium carbonate so it doesn't strip KH completely. 

In my tank(tap ph almost 9, TDS 450) it would strip the kh down into the 5-10 from near 30 or higher. 

I wouldn't use it or recommend it anymore. Cheap option close to it is the Turface line of products. Better color, too. 

I tried it in a few "test" tanks and by the end of a year it was mush. Completely worthless and makes the oil dry not useful for us, in my eyes.


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## james0816

Intesting assessment there. I'm guessing then that the majority of the people who are using haven't had it for a year then. Yikes!


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## aquatic serenity

I'm using it..It is very dirty...requires alot of rinsing..not easy to plant in either...very light..
I just threw together a cheap experiment -1/2 inch of peat on the bottom,some osmocote spread lightly over the peat and then covered with 2 inches of oil dri...
Got it all at walmart for under 20 bucks ..
tank is dong good at 3 mos in...just a little algae bloom (hair algae), but the swords I have in it have tripled in size !! I think they like the peat...
we'll see how it goes long term...


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## james0816

I've decided to finally give this a go. I was anticipating a very cloudy dirty mess but was pleasantly surprised. I rinsed about four cups at a time.

This stuff rinsed out almost as good as PFS. Very minimal dust even when I poured it into the tank. I gave the tank a good dose of ferts to soak in.

It's a nice dark color as well unlike the much lighter beige looking type that I've seen in the past.

I'll snap up a pic shortly as soon as the camera battery charges up.


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## james0816

The more I research items like this, the SafeTAbsorbent product from Moltan Corp. is different from Oil-Dri. Maybe now I understand where the frustrations from others came from.

This is the product I'm currently testing out. It's the bag in the middle.

SafeTAbsorbent

Was surprisingly clean when rinsed out. Didn't take much effort to rinse and after adding to the tank, it wasn't cloudy. Planting was no issue either as the grain size is heavy enough to hold. No cloudiness occured when the substrate was disturbed.

This is even what it looks like.


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## depech

Wow! Loos pretty good. I might try that for my next tank. Which store did you get them at?


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## james0816

I picked it up at Tractor Supply Company.


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## Diana

That looks REALLY nice!


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## ree123

I bought several different colors of SMS (Soil Master Select) about a year ago and have found it very light weight also, but it has not broken down into mud on me. I will say that for the first few months I could not get any Aq. plants to grow in the tanks, other than algaes, but now I am having much better luck. I did not treat the SMS with any ferts. when I first placed it into my tanks. Maybe that is where I went wrong. 
I apprecaite this thread. I think I might like to try some of this product either alone or mixed with my SMS substrate in use.
My SMS came from The Tractor Supply Co. as well.


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## ree123

These pebbles look larger in the photo above compared to the SMS I am using currently.


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## james0816

I love SMS as well. It has done wonderfully for me. Still have nearly two bags left.


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## jersysman

Tractor Supply sure does supply a great many things we use as substrates. They also provide the Black Diamond coal slag.


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## james0816

I was curious to know the CEC value of the SafeTAbsorbent. I couldn't find it anywhere so I contacted the company directly. This particular product has a CEC value of 33.6 which is equal to Turface MVP. Excellent choice!

Now time will tell how well it does. Routine EI dosing and CO2 should do wonders.


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## Robert H

> The problem with oil dry is breakdown. And it is SUPER dirty.


The reason is these oil absorbants are not kiln fired for as long or at as high a temperature as lawn additives such as Turface are. This makes them softer so they create more dust and eventually break down. Basically the same as raw kitty litter without the perfumes added.


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## jrman83

I wouldn't worry James.....I have had this stuff for just short of 2yrs in two of my tanks and it doesn't look any different than when I first put it in. Maybe regular oil dry breaks down....just not Safe-t-Sorb, FWIW.


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## james0816

Yeah..I'm not concerned now after doing more research into this product. The Safe-T-Sorb product is much different than the OilDri product on many fronts. At first I didn't realize they were seperate products. When I started working with it and noticed the color difference right off the bat, it got the gears in me head turning.

High CEC, virtually nil solubility and not to mention a very nice color. 

So far I have trimmed and replanted several of the plants in the tank and there were no cloudiness issues in doing it.

Looks like this is going to be a very viable product.


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## james0816

Here was a little more info I was able to get from the company:

"SafeTSorb is kiln-dried, calcined and milled natural Montmorillonite Clay with medium bulk density, medium sorptive capacity, average surface area and high hardness"

Think that pretty much sums it up eh? :icon_cool

Will continue to monitor this particular tank over the next few weeks and see what the parms do.


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## Seattle_Aquarist

Hi James0816,

So, I called Moltan and talked to the West Coast salesman and found out I can get Safe T Sorb #7941 from WW Grainger. I checked the WW Grainger website and it was listed for $8.64 per bag. I called the local Grainger Supply office, confirmed product, price, availability and they will ship two bags from CA to Seattle and I can pick them up on Friday for $8.64 per bag plus tax. A lot cheaper than driving to my nearest Tractor Supply in CA or MT - lol!


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## james0816

Excellent! Do keep us posted on how your tank turns out as well. I have grown to like it thats for sure and it's not even two weeks yet. 

I'm going to try Turface MVP soon as well.

It's not too obvious that I like conducting experiments is it?


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## AlisaR

james0816 said:


> Here was a little more info I was able to get from the company:
> 
> "SafeTSorb is kiln-dried, calcined and milled natural Montmorillonite Clay with medium bulk density, medium sorptive capacity, average surface area and high hardness"
> 
> Think that pretty much sums it up eh? :icon_cool
> 
> Will continue to monitor this particular tank over the next few weeks and see what the parms do.



I never venture into this subforum but something drew me today and this must be it. This could possibly be an amazing shrimp substrate.


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## cookymonster760

i find that oil dry and turface are the same as akadama after trying akadama on one tank and turface on the other i dont see any differences between the two the only difference is that turfaces is smaller they basically look the same and do the same for your water


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## Seattle_Aquarist

Hi cookymonster760,

Akadama comes in two grain sizes, the color is very similar to the standard Buff colored Turface. I have been looking for a substrate that is darker, and hopefully a little cleaner, than Turface.


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## james0816

The only thing I can't really test is the affect on pH since me well water is already soft and acidic.

How is your tap out there Roy?


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## Seattle_Aquarist

Hi james0816,

My waters is very soft and about neutral PH. It varies throughout the year, but typically it comes out of the tap at 0.5 - 1.0 dKH and about 2.0 dGH. All of the heat treated Montmorillonite clay products I have tried have dropped my PH, dKH, and dGH; especially when it is new substrate. The effect is greatly reduced when I do a tear-down and reuse the same substrate.


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## algarciajr

I also like the look of this stuff. Thanks for sharing.


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## jrman83

AlisaR said:


> I never venture into this subforum but something drew me today and this must be it. This could possibly be an amazing shrimp substrate.


I use it in my 20g shrimp tank.


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## james0816

Two weeks in and water parms are holding. gH and kH holding at 1. pH still showing around 6 but I suspect it is actually lower. Think I'll take a water sample in to work tomorrow for a lab test.

Plants for the most part are doing really well.

Bacopa australis - Trim soon
Eriocaulon cinereum 'mini' - Flowering again
Eriocaulon parkeri - Sent out it's first flower stalk
Pogostemon helferi - Concern - Doesn't appear to be doing very well. Water might be too acidic for it. But still holding its own.
Proserpinaca palustris - First trim
Rotala macrandra - First trim
Rotala mexicana 'Araguaia' - Weed - Major trim
Rotala sp. 'Bangladesh' - Weed - Major trim
Rotala sp. 'Sunset' - Doing well
Rotala sp. 'Thailand' - First Trim
Syngonanthus sp. 'Madeira' - Concern - Flourished well at first and showed good growth. Now looks to be melting for some reason.


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## james0816

Diatoms starting to appear. Could be fun trying to keep it in check with the soft and acidic water. pH to low for snails or Otos. Lots of rubbing ahead.


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## Seattle_Aquarist

Hi Robert,

I am not sure that is totally accurate. The Oil-Dri I purchased from Walmart was very dusty; but the Safe-T-Sorb on first inspection does not appear to be anywhere near as bad. Here is a thread with some pictures of Turface Pro League 'Grey'; Oil-Dri; and Safe-T-Sorb side by side for color and grain size comparison. I hope to do some tests on the amount of 'dust' (cloudiness) the three different types have later this week.


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## james0816

I can definately attest to the Safe-T-Absorbent being a very low dust product. It took very minimal effort to rinse it. After three weeks, it does not cloud up when trimming and replanting.

As mentioned earlier, my only issue with this tank at the moment is the typical Diatom outbreak with new tanks. And being that it nas very soft and acidic water, I can't stick in any Oto's to help out.  I've been debating about taking the plants and placing them in an Oto tank until they are cleaned and them moving them back. Just don't know how they would handle being in a non-acidic environment for a day or two at most.


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## Warlock

i really like the color of the safe t sorb!


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## Diana

Looking forward to more info about Safe-T-Sorb.
I currently use SMS and Turface. They behave about the same, stripping the KH from the water for a long time. They do not remove the GH, though. 

I have blended Turface with coral sand for a Lake Tanganyikan tank, and that stopped the Turface from grabbing the KH out of the water! Unfortunately, the blend of colors in that substrate is pretty bad. I prefer dark substrates.

I have blended pool filter sand with SMS to see if it would hold the plants better, and the pfs is fine enough that it looks OK. Mostly still dark. Not much better about holding the plants, though.


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## ElBoltonero

james0816 said:


> As mentioned earlier, my only issue with this tank at the moment is the typical Diatom outbreak with new tanks. And being that it nas very soft and acidic water, I can't stick in any Oto's to help out.  I've been debating about taking the plants and placing them in an Oto tank until they are cleaned and them moving them back. Just don't know how they would handle being in a non-acidic environment for a day or two at most.


Otos are South American...provided they're acclimated correctly they'll be fine in acidic water (as long as it's not like ridiculously low)


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## Warlock

Diana.. which TURFACE did you get.. they have two types.. MVP and um... the other one.. LOL


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## james0816

ElBoltonero said:


> Otos are South American...provided they're acclimated correctly they'll be fine in acidic water (as long as it's not like ridiculously low)


They would be going from a 7.4 to a 5.5. Not a good thing for these wee ones. I hate to experiment on fish but do wonder if the small fry can be acclimated to that low pH. Wonders outloud.


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## james0816

Warlock said:


> Diana.. which TURFACE did you get.. they have two types.. MVP and um... the other one.. LOL


Im picking up a bag of the Pro League to compare with the others.


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## Diana

Highly likely MVP, but the bag is long gone. It is tan in color, and the color did not change very much when it got wet. There was very little dust, except when it was dry. I scooped it (dry) into the tank, and did not want to breath it. Then I dampened it, and no more dust. To fill the tank I put a plastic bag over the substrate so the water did not disturb it. A tiny trace of cloudy water, but nothing that I would worry about, and that was almost gone in just an hour or two, and clear water the next day. 

I did the same with Soil Master Select (used it dry). When I move a tank, or scoop out either of these (Turface or SMS) there is a lot of cloudy water, but I think some (or most) of this is not from the substrate, but is the mulm from over a year of running the tank with no deep vacuuming.


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## Warlock

i went to the TURFACE website and there is a SOIL Landscaping company that carry it.. and they are only 10 min drive!


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## james0816

Been out of commission for the past several days and getting back in the swing of things. I'll get a new set of water parms today since I missed it last week. I did wind up putting (6) wee Oto's in there and they have done splendidly. The tank almost looks like day one again. Very good to know that they can do well at these low pH levels. I still need to grab a sample of the water and bring it in for an actual lab test.


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## aquatic serenity

JAMES0816 ....some pics would be nice...please?


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## james0816

I'll snap some this weekend. The tank is presentable again.


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## Warlock

updates?

i got a bag of Molton Saf t Sorb for $4.99 

50lb!

jus incase i want/need it


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## james0816

Sure. Tank is growing very well. In need of another major trim. Still dealin with diatoms but me Oto army is doing an outstanding job. I'll try and post some pics soon


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## james0816

I'm not quite sure what is going on with this tank but within the last two days, the plant growth has been through the roof! Or in this case...out of the tank.

I've been working some long hours and haven't been able to spend much time in the fish room. I did put on a new DIY CO2 bottle yesterday using enriched rice instead of white rice and I wanted to see how it was generating. 

Got home this evening and turned the lights on just to check the CO2. It is doing extremely well so I went to swap bottles with the one on this tank. That's when I noticed all the new growth. My last check on the tank was two days ago.

One plant in particular, Syngonanthus sp. 'Madeira', really surprised me. There was one daughter plant forming at the base and was just about 1/2" long. Today, there are two daughter plants and both new stems have eclipsed the crown of the original plant! They are both over an inch in size! Not to mention all the other plants have grown at least and inch in this period. Rotala sunset nearly 2"! Two more Erio's are sending up flower stalks. I am completely amazed.

I'm wondering if the substrate is reaching it's stability now with the amount of growth. There has been no change in the fert regime and the DC is still green. 

I'll be out of town tomorrow and back over the weekend. Will try to snap some pics prior to trimming.


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## Diana

I do not know for sure, but could make a guess:

High CEC substrates start with no fertilizers. 
Then you add fertilizers and minerals to the water column. It takes a while for the ferts (dissolved in the water) to pass through the substrate. 
As the ferts pass through the substrate, it starts grabbing them. 
Q: Is the soil so good at grabbing the ferts that it strips the water column so fast the plants are short of nutrients?
Finally it reaches a point where the substrate is fairly rich with fertilizers and minerals, and it is easy for the plant roots to pick up the things it needs. This supply might be more stable, too, compared to what is in the water column.

I found something similar with the SMS. I ran it for a while, EI dosing, then stopped dosing. The plant kept right on growing for a while. I think the water column dosing loaded up the substrate with the things the plants needed in abundance, so there gets to be a pretty good reserve there, especially as long as you are still dosing, replacing what the plants are using.


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## Robert H

Well when I used it some years ago, it turned to mud. Now I used it as a bottom layer under two or three inches of gravel. Sitting on the bottom of the tank it sat in the middle of all the crud where it is anaerobic. This could speed up the process of decomposition I suppose. Saf t sorb is kiln dried, but it is still softer than Turface.


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## In.a.Box

If this stuff turn out good I'm going to say good bye to black blasting sand.

Question: what you guys do to old sand/gravel?
I have ton of sand/gravel sitting in my basement I want to get rid of.
Will it be safe if I just throw them in the trash bin?


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## MangyMoose77

Warlock said:


> i went to the TURFACE website and there is a SOIL Landscaping company that carry it.. and they are only 10 min drive!


FYI: Anyone looking for Turface can also find it at their local "John Deere Landscapes" warehouse as well; just googlemap it. Although it may not look like it from the outside, JDL is open for retail sales as well. I actually used the stuff for years in it's intended use: sports fields.

For those of you who don't know what it is, it is actually a ceramic sports field conditioner, but is most easily identifiable on baseball fields. Think RED on a baseball infield. That's Turface, or their competitor Pro's Choice. Both are essentially the same product. Pro's Choice "Red" and Turface "Heritage Red" are both a nice deep red color. They also have a fine grade which would be comparable to sand. Turface's brand is called "Game Saver". Standard cost should be somewhere in the $15 to $25 range per 50 lb bag depending on your region. Not a bad deal considering the average cost of high quality substrate per 15 lbs is around $16 or $18 a bag.

I have never used it in an aquarium, but then again, I guess I never thought about it until I saw this thread.


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## Diana

Old substrate (sand, gravel, clown puke) is scattered on my gravel driveway. As cars drive over it it mixes pretty well (I cannot find the pink or blue rocks any more). 

Of course not everyone has this option... 

Gravel: Top off flower or house plant pots. Window boxes. 

Sand: mix with potting soil for container gardens. 

Offer it to a friend with planted containers. 

Freecycle.


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## james0816

Well this tank just continues to outperform everyone else. It's actually a mess. 

I need to do a major, major trim. Hopefully be able to get to that today. Nearly all of the stem plants need to be hacked (breaks out the machete). B. australis, R. bangladesh and mexicana are just jungles. I put some star grass in there...mistake. I will have to remove it as it just grows too fast and too thick for this particular tank.

Erios continue to flower; mainly the Cinereum. Seems I'm constantly plucking flower stalks. E. kimberly is just amazing in this tank. Most of the Erios show signs of new plants developing. I've never split a Erio before and quite nervous about it actually. I'm definately hoping they split on their own where I just have to seperate roots.

Nothing has changed with the course of the tank. Still doing weekly 20% WC, EI fert dosing and constant flow of DIY CO2. Photo period remains at 10hrs/day.


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## AaronT

Has this lowered the KH of the water? I noticed that SMS had this effect and the plants really dig it. It's too bad the SMS is so light weight. That was the one thing I didn't like about it. SMS will also break down over time, but it takes a long time.


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## james0816

AaronT said:


> Has this lowered the KH of the water? I noticed that SMS had this effect and the plants really dig it. It's too bad the SMS is so light weight. That was the one thing I didn't like about it. SMS will also break down over time, but it takes a long time.


Really can't say actually. I have soft acidic water straight from the tap. If anything, it is holding its own keeping the water right where I want it. And of course the addition of CO2...... I'd like to test this somehow. Maybe get some city water from in town and see what happens. That would be some work though but would be a good test.

I haven't noticed hardly any (if any) breakdown of SMS as yet. I've been using it for some time and it is still going strong. Light yes. Compacts good but not tight over time. A good vac fluffs it back it. I find that after doing this it grabs the stems when you reset them and then they set.

One other thing I've noticed with the STA, when uprooting plants, it falls right off the roots. Very easy to shake off. I only mention this as a comparison to Flourite where I have to physically remove the grains from the roots in that substrate.

I'm going to be real curious on the durability of the Safe-T-Absorbent. If it stays true for any great length of time, I'm gonna say this is one of the best non-aquatic products to use.


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## tatersalad

Can you post a Pic of your tank please, I'm very interested in this substrate and I would like to see how it contrasts with the green plants.
Thanks


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## james0816

Woops..thought I had some pics up. Let me see if I can get some of the older ones up. I am still working on the trimming/rescaping. Been slow at getting to it. Should be finished today if all goes well.


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## james0816

Here's a couple of older pics:

This was the initial planting:









My favorite Erio:









And here it was a few weeks after planting:









Had a nice GDA appear as you can see. It has of course been all scrapped off. Typical new tank issue of a massive Diatom outbreak as well. Threw in (6) of me juvie Otos and they have done an excellent job in here even though the water is very soft and acidic.

I'm almost done with the trimming and rescaping. Been very slow at it as I haven't had much time to work on it during the week.


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## AUAV8R

What type of ferts and schedule are you using?


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## tatersalad

I like it, I think its a nice contrast between the green plants. You know, something different than the popular black substrate. I bet some driftwood would really go good in there.


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## james0816

EI Dosing; 5 on (Mon-Fri)/ 2 off .. 25%wc at end of week. DIY CO2. 10hr photo period.


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## dnicholson

I'm new to planted tanks but reading through this thread got me wondering, since this is an absorbent material couldn't you initially use an extremely high dose of ferts, when the material is dry, in a bucket to load it, then you wouldn't have to wait for it to load slowly with the normal dosing in the tank?


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## DrGonzo

dnicholson said:


> I'm new to planted tanks but reading through this thread got me wondering, since this is an absorbent material couldn't you initially use an extremely high dose of ferts, when the material is dry, in a bucket to load it, then you wouldn't have to wait for it to load slowly with the normal dosing in the tank?


Interesting idea. I'd like to know this myself and possibly be able to cut out the waiting period while a tank is set up for it to be saturated with ferts.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus


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## Lurch98

DrGonzo said:


> Interesting idea. I'd like to know this myself and possibly be able to cut out the waiting period while a tank is set up for it to be saturated with ferts.
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus


That is what people refer to when they recommend charging it or preloading it. Soak it with ferts for a week or two prior to putting it in your tank.


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## james0816

I would gather that this product would be a prime candidate for "charging". I didn't go that route initially since I had so many unanswered questions about it. But, after using it this long, that would be a good idea to do.


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## DrGonzo

Lurch98 said:


> That is what people refer to when they recommend charging it or preloading it. Soak it with ferts for a week or two prior to putting it in your tank.


Well where the heck have I been? Haha

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus


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## hbosman

I'm liking this Safe T Sorb alot. It rinses cleaner than my last bag of Flourite and the pieces are smaller so less for the BBA to hold on to . The color looks very natural to me. It is lighter so stems will be more difficult to plant but, I still have the Flourite underneath to hold things down. Even if it breaks down over time, it's $5.00 for 40 pounds. I can incrementally suck up the old and re-add new if neccessary. So far, its holding up. I will comment when I notice it breaking down. I've taken some in a bucket and rinsed it. I would grab a handful and just gently spread it around on top of the existing flourite. Since it is on top, I should see if it breaks down. Especially, where it is next to the front glass.


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## james0816

I have found it very easy to plant in even though it is light. Haven't had any issues with stems uprooting after being planted.


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## dnicholson

does anyone know where to find this in northern Utah?


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## Seattle_Aquarist

Hi All,

So I finally got around to putting some of the Safe T Sorb #7941 in an aquarium last night; this is what it looks like with some stems from my emersed setup. This tank has no CO2 so it will interesting to see how the emersed stems do.

Apistogramma cacatoides 'Triple Red' in 10 gallon using Safe t sorb #7941









Here are my impressions compared with Soilmaster Select Charcoal (SMS):
Definitely more dusty; at least 5 rinses per bucket before adding to the tank.
Uneven particle size from sand particles to 4X SMS size; SMS was fairly uniform
About the same weight as SMS and Turface.
Nice color variation in the particles; much better than Kitty Litter. The colors shown in the picture are almost exactly the colors in my tank.
I will be taking water parameters in the morning and see what the effect if any it has on the tap water.

7/26/12 I tested my water in the Safe T Sorb aquarium today and it is typical of what I have seen with other Monmorillonite clay substrates. My tank had a PH of 6.0 and was <1.0 dKH and <4.0 dGH. My water is typically very soft and comes out of the tap with a 7.8 PH but after sitting for 24 hours drops down to about 7.0 PH. I set aside some tap water this afternoon and will test it tomorrow.

7/27/12 I tested our tap water that had been sitting out for 24 hours and it has a PH of 7.0 - 7.2, a 2.0 dKH and 6.0 dGH so it appears that the high CEC of the clay has reduced the levels down to what I took yesterday. I did add enough NaHCO2 (baking soda) to raise the dKH by 1.0 degree and enough Seachem Equilibrium to raise the dGH by 1.0 degree. I also fertilized with 1.0 ml of Seachem Comprehensive. The emersed stems I planted seem to be doing well with no melting, new leaves starting to emerge and the existing leaves turning towards the light.


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## Seattle_Aquarist

added info in the post above.


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## hbosman

My KH dropped initially but, I don't see any changes anymore. My KH is 5 to 6 though.


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## acitydweller

Any more photos?


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## Bimmer

I've been following this thread a bit lately as I'm wanting to create a 2nd home for plants that I've just brought home or plants in my 72 Bowfront that need attention. Sort of a quarantine if you will. I joined a group in Facebook called Aquatic Utopia and it was there I got the idea for the Safe-T-Sorb. Then I found this thread about a week later. I'm in the slow process of setting up a 37G show tank. I've first laid down 2 bags of Miracle-Gro Sphagnum Peat Moss. That gives me about a little more than 2" depth. Once that's fully absorbed the little bit of water that's in there now I'll add the Safe-T-Sorb. I'm planning on "charging" the Safe-T-Sorb with Flourish Excel and Flourish Iron for about a week. This is my first time using peat. Is there any reason I should consider using heavy amounts of charcoal to my bio-wheel filter? 

Thanks for any advice you could offer!


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## james0816

I can't think of any reason to use charcoal unless you suspect some impurities in the water. Otherwise, just leave it out.

I just did another massive trimming in this tank so it looks all new again. Definately have to stay on top of it.


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## Bimmer

james0816 said:


> I can't think of any reason to use charcoal unless you suspect some impurities in the water. Otherwise, just leave it out.
> 
> I just did another massive trimming in this tank so it looks all new again. Definately have to stay on top of it.


Thanks James! Since we're absorbing water and not something as viscous as oil, I think 24 hours is plenty of time to let the fertilized water soak into the Safe-T-Sorb. I used three large buckets with fert treated water and it's been soaking in that since yesterday.

Wish me luck!


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## james0816

GL! And happy planting!


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## mrramsey

acitydweller said:


> Any more photos?


I just added safe t sorb to my 55g... This was the day after... it is actually much clearer now.


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## mach_six

Would you soak the substrate in just iron or a mix of ferts?


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## Seattle_Aquarist

mach_six said:


> Would you soak the substrate in just iron or a mix of ferts?


Hi mach_six,

You can do that if you want. Due to the high CEC of the STS will absorb the ferts, iron, or both and make a portion of them available to the the plants in the root zone. I have not done it because I like to be able to control (to some degree) the amount of nutrients available to the plants in my tanks.

I did 'charge' some Oil-Dri that I use for my emersed plant bank. I mixed up a bucket of water, dosed to EI levels, and added Oil-Dri until all of the liquid was absorbed. I used the 'charged' Oil-Dri as a cap to the Miracle Grow Potting Mix that I use for my emersed plants. I am not sure if it makes a noticeable difference in this application.


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## starquestMM

I found a potential problem with how light the STS in my 10g is. I noticed one of my nerite snails had gotten itself upside down and was not able to get back right side up. It would stretch down and latch onto the STS only to pull up a couple of pieces. I left it there all night and it was still upside down.


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## In.a.Box

I'm going to use 1.5inch of sts in my new 75g with a cap of 1.5inch white pool sand.
Maybe 4-5 inch middle to back. 

Im done with using soil has I can't stop hs2 and can't find any new dark top soil to use.
The one I mts has way to much clay in there. 

With a high cec being cap with sand it should stop the sts from leaking when it break down into mud.


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## hbosman

In.a.Box said:


> I'm going to use 1.5inch of sts in my new 75g with a cap of 1.5inch white pool sand.
> Maybe 4-5 inch middle to back.
> 
> Im done with using soil has I can't stop hs2 and can't find any new dark top soil to use.
> The one I mts has way to much clay in there.
> 
> With a high cec being cap with sand it should stop the sts from leaking when it break down into mud.


Im guessing the sand will eventually work its way to the bottom and the STS will work it's way to the top.


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## Seattle_Aquarist

In.a.Box said:


> I'm going to use 1.5inch of sts in my new 75g with a cap of 1.5inch white pool sand.
> Maybe 4-5 inch middle to back.
> 
> Im done with using soil has I can't stop hs2 and can't find any new dark top soil to use.
> The one I mts has way to much clay in there.
> 
> With a high cec being cap with sand it should stop the sts from leaking when it break down into mud.


Hi In.a.Box,

I have used Monmorillonite clay substrates (Soilmaster Select, Turface, and Safe-T-Sorb) for several years now and have not had one incident of the substrate 'breaking down' or becoming mud-like. Unfortunately I cannot say the same about Aquasoils, my ADA Amazonia I definitely has a tendency to break down.

I agree with hbosman, because the sand is denser and smaller grained than the STS the sand will settle and eventually expose the STS.


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## In.a.Box

I'm working on a test to see if the sand will leak down.
Anyone know the cec% on lava rock?


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## Diana

Sand will definitely settle through Soil Master Select, but not so thoroughly that they can be separated. When I took that tank down to move it the 2 materials were more mixed than not. Absolutely the sand will NOT stay on top, though. The upper layer in that tank was all SMS. I suppose with patience I could have separated them by some method that utilizes the difference in density.


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## creekbottom

I'm using Safe T Sorb capped with sand in a 10 gallon, going to be growing mostly crypts. Since these are root feeders, mostly, should I use root tabs? OR... will the CEC of the safe t sorb be enough to feed these plants?


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## somewhatshocked

CEC does not = ferts. Merely means your substrate can absorb and slowly release nutrients.

You'll definitely need to use root tabs.


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## creekbottom

somewhatshocked said:


> CEC does not = ferts. Merely means your substrate can absorb and slowly release nutrients.


Thanks for the clarification. This stuff sounds like it pulls ferts from the water column and then makes them accesible for root feeders. Which I'm sure it does, but maybe not enough. 

Thanks


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## james0816

somewhatshocked said:


> CEC does not = ferts. Merely means your substrate can absorb and slowly release nutrients.
> 
> You'll definitely need to use root tabs.


Not really ... quite the opposite actually. High CEC substrates mean you're less likely to have to use root tabs if you dose regular ferts.


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## somewhatshocked

If he's not dosing, he'll need to use root tabs.

Didn't mention anything about regular dosing.



james0816 said:


> Not really ... quite the opposite actually. High CEC substrates mean you're less likely to have to use root tabs if you dose regular ferts.


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## Diana

You can use any of several forms of fertilizer, and if your substrate has the capacity to latch onto it then it will start building up a reserve. But you do have to start using the fertilizers in whatever form to start loading it up. 

High CEC does not mean is HAS fertilizers, only that it is capable of holding fertilizers. You need to add enough fertilizer for the plants, and maybe a bit more. The 'bit more' builds up, held by the substrate, and feeds the plants when you skip feeding, like going on vacation. 

Like a refrigerator and cupboards. They do not come pre-loaded with food! 
But once they are stocked the supplies come and go, but you can spread out the shopping because there are reserves.


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## creekbottom

Thanks for that analogy. I never know what info to put in these questions, besides everything. I do dose my tanks using the PPS pro system. I'll be doing the same with this tank as well. I get that high CEC doesn't mean the same as fertilizer, but after reading this entire thread it looked like after it was charged, root tabs might not be neccessary. 

This has cleared up a lot of questions. Now for rootmedic to come back online.....


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## aquanerd13

Is Safe T Sorb safe for corydoras?


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## JJ09

I've kept cories on it without problems. It's actually quite soft and lightweight- one of the downsides is that after long time, the particles start to disintegrate and crumble (I'm talking years). If you're concerned about the substrate being harsh on the cories' barbels, it will be fine.


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