# Upsizing to a 55



## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

Finally upsizing my tank. I’ve had a 20gal for a long time. Christmas gift as a kid and still kicking. I’ve been saying for years I want a bigger tank and finally made it happen. Pulled the trigger in January and bought a 55gal during a $1/gal sale. 

Specs:
Tank: 55 gal
Filter: Eheim Classic 2217
Powerhead: Hydor Koralia 425 
CO2: Pressurized (10# tank)
Regulator: Parker IR 6000 (I know, overkill)
Diffuser: Atomic Inline Diffuser from GLA
Substrate: Flourite Black
Lighting: two 48” Finnex 247 Planted +

I have all the equipment, which has been accumulating in my front entryway for a month. The stand I bought came in last weekend. Mfg'd by Coastal Aquarium Design. Really happy with it. Better than some of the cheaper stands most places carry. Had to so some calling to find a LFS that could get me something besides the basic pine stand. Also wanted something with the bottom closed to conceal my equipment. My 20gal is on metal stand with an open bottom and the canister is an eyesore in my opinion. I digress… 

Painted the back of the tank black a couple of weeks ago with a flat latex paint and a foam roller. Lesson learned there in patience, taking your time, and paying attention to what you’re doing. I pulled some of the paint off by accident when removing tape… not the in the process of removing the tape I had put around the edges, but when lengths of tape I had already removed brushed the freshly painted area because I wasn’t paying attention, and when I tried to pull the tape, the painted background came off with it. It was my first time painting a tank, so lesson definitely learned! 

Going to try this weekend to rinse the flourite. Not looking forward to it. 6 bags. Plan is to use the paint strainer method. Flirted with the idea of just dumping it in the tank, adding just enough water to wet everything, and let it settle before adding more water. Convinced myself I’d just be frustrated so settled on the paint strainer method. If all goes well, I might even get the tank filled with water! Driftwood has been soaking since 2/25 and still wants to float. Going to break out my canner and camp stove this weekend and boil the driftwood and nip that in the bud. Pic of the driftwood doesn't do the large piece justice.

Fish: Plan on some community fish, most likely a nice school of neons and who knows what else. Open to suggestions.

Plants. Starting from scratch is hard! Open to suggestions.


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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

tank looks great


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## sohankpatel (Jul 10, 2015)

I have praecox rainbows in my 55g, they are awesome fish, and stay fairly small, maxing at around 2-2.5 inches


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## Shan4404 (Jan 6, 2017)

Congrats! I started with 55 got a 125 and had to get a 220. Get ready for more!


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

Shan4404 said:


> Congrats! I started with 55 got a 125 and had to get a 220. Get ready for more!


Hahah. I actually wanted something bigger but the thought of reinforcing my floors was a little more than I wanted to deal with at this point so I went the safer route with a smaller tank. Only place I have for it in my house is a wall that runs parallel with the floor joists. Someday though. Someday.


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

Driftwood is processing... Washed the flourite. Six bags took me about 30 minutes using a paint strainer. Way easier than I thought. Tank is 3/4 full. Will wait to top it off until I get the driftwood in it, probably tomorrow. I want to let it soak in the tub again after I'm done boiling it. I did have that nervous moment before I turned my python on where I hoped that there were no leaks. Even new tanks can leak, or so I've heard. All clear so far. And the water is pretty clear, so must have done a decent job rinsing the flourite.


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

Up and running. Took me all afternoon. The green tubing wanted to do its own thing. Had to cut down the spray bar too. Have a very fizzy water column right now. Hoping that clears up. Tank is a little cooler and is still releases gases from the tap. If the fizz doesn't clear the GLA atomic inline diffuser may have to go. Suggestions for tweaking it? I feel increasing the bps isn't going to help my cause, but it's probably inevitable given how blue the drop checker is turning. Running at 30psi and 0.75bps right now. I can see how everything is flowing though. No driftwood. Still wants to float. May continue to soak it for another week. I'm ok with that as tannins continue to leach into the water.

Did pay a visit to a LFS today. Completely disappointed in plant selection. Compiling my list of wtb for a posting in the near future.


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## Mattb126 (Nov 13, 2016)

Looking forward to the progress, as I have a 55 I could use some inspiration on!

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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

Most of the fizz seems to have cleared. Still getting a fine mist out of the spray bar from the atomic diffuser. We'll see how that progresses. Drop checker is green, though not sure it's as green as it needs to be. Turned up the bps and now currently 2.16bps. This bare tank is unsettling. Need to light a fire under my rear and get moving on scaping.


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

The big piece of driftwood sank so in the tank it went. It's much bigger than I though. Had tested it out in an empty tank in the store where I bought it. What's everyone think? I have a much much smaller piece I am going to put on the right, but it still floats. Plan is to attach some buce (ordered!) to the large piece. Maybe some mini christmas moss I have ordered as well, or put that on the smaller piece of driftwood. Still not sure about the haze the mist is giving.


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## Mattb126 (Nov 13, 2016)

I think you won't be happy with it in the long run, it's to flat and isn't very interesting to look at. 

I think in a 55, it's best to shoot for something like this.









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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

Agreed Mattb. If I'm not happy with it now, that doesn't bode well for my long term opinion. I'm going to make due with it for now, but agree that it's probably not a long term fixture. It is really cool piece of driftwood though in my opinion. 


Mattb126 said:


> I think you won't be happy with it in the long run, it's to flat and isn't very interesting to look at.
> 
> I think in a 55, it's best to shoot for something like this.


Back to the drawing board I guess. Plants will start going in as soon as they arrive.


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

I would guess you just need to add another piece of driftwood or two. While it is difficult to get a decent hardscape to show depth in a 55, it is definitely doable.


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

I'm going to leave the driftwood for now until I find a suitable replacement. Being the sentimental person I am, I might try finding a more branchy piece of wood out on my parent's farm next time I'm there. Some small pieces I have for the right side of the tank still want to float, so I still have them soaking. Working on planting. Few plants came in the mail yesterday, hopefully will get some more today. I have a feeling once I get a nice planting that the tank will start to look better. Definitely noticed how shallow the 55 is from front to back when I started planting. Already thinking about what I'll do differently when I get a bigger tank!!!


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

Started adding plants. 

Rotala Wallichii
Ludwigia Red
Cryptocoryne wendtii "Brown"
Anubias barteri nana
Rotala butterfly
Pogostemon Erectus 
Rotala vietnam
Hemianthus Callitricoides "Cuba" 
Alteranthera Reineckii "Mini" 

Also bought a pack of cheap bulbs. It's supposed to have a green nymphaea, a couple aponogeton ulvaceus, and some water onion. I figured I had a lot of red/pink plants and didn't have enough green, so why not. Still need to plant the rotala butterfly and anubias. The rotala butterly is going to go about where it is sitting right now, the anubias is still TBD. Thinking about attaching it to the driftwood that hadn't made it into the tank yet.

I am not so confident about my scaping abilities. We'll see when things start growing out. Have some buce on the way to add to the driftwood. The piece of driftwood I have to go on the right is still in a bucket in the basement because it wants to float. Might have to try and boil it again this weekend. We'll see how the dwarf baby tears do. Actually we'll see how all of it does. Will probably kill it all.

Tank just has a cloudy haze to it. Hopefully its just trying to find balance. Once it's a little more established I'll get some fish. Will probably add some nerites and amano shrimp after a week or so. I haven't attempted any sort of effort to officially cycle. May just swap some tank water from my 20 gallon when I do my water change this weekend.


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

While I anticipated to heavily plant and skip the fishless cycle, I've been looking at ordering my fish online. If I go that route, will probably get a good number of fish to make the most out of the shipping costs. Added some ammonia today. Going to seed the tank with the filter pad from from 20gal today. Hopefully plants get established, tank cycles, and I can add fish soon.


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

Water change day. Definitely helped the haziness. I must not have washed all of my equipment enough. That or it was some residual dust in the water column from the flourite that the filter didn't catch. Plants are starting to pearl. Anubias var. nana must be very happy as it's pearling like crazy. Some crypt wendtii "brown" that looks like it might have some melt going on has a few leaves that are pearling too. Even the HC Cuba seems happy. Glad to see some positive results in only a few days since initial planting. Dosed ammonia back to 4ppm after the water change. Want this baby cycled. Now back to researching fish. Looking at some that I've never kept


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

Fingers crossed this cold doesn't kill some plants that the USPS is currently has in their possession. Had some buce delivered today and the temp was 32 degrees. Not sure how long they sat on my front porch but they're in the tank now. The unforeseen delay between the purchase and shipping... it was so nice here last week!


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## Pat24601 (Mar 4, 2017)

I've been reading your thread for ideas. I look forward to seeing more pics of your new purchases! I've had good experience with online ordering. They seem to know how to package it well for shipping even under less than ideal conditions.


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

Cycle is progressing... nitrItes are showing up at 0.25ppm this evening. The final order of plants should hopefully arrive tomorrow. New driftwood soaking in a rubbermaid tub that will replace the massive space-taker-upper piece currently in the tank. Stopped by Lowes and bought the components for a Cerges' reactor, directions courtesy of this thread -- http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/20-diy/110100-cerges-reactor-diy-inline-co2-reactor-52.html#post6987650; the mist from the GLA atomic diffuser was just too much for me. I want crystal clear water.

Not seeing too much plant growth as a whole. The rotala vietnam shows the most growth. I'm sure the anubias nana is growing since it's been pearling like crazy, but until I get it out of the rock wool and in a more permanent home, I can't tell if it's put on any new growth. The rotala wallichii looks like it might be putting on some new growth. A little disappointed its color is greening a bit already. All the other plants thus far seem unchanged. Crypts are definitely melting. I'll post a new pic of the tank once I have something new to show.


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

Ugh! I really get frustrated with the USPS. Looks like my delivery of the bulk of my plants has been delayed and they're being held hostage in Memphis, TN. Doubt they'll be delivered tomorrow knowing how my local post office delivers packages, which means it will be Monday at the earliest. Hoping for the best...

On a side note, my tank is becoming an algae farm as I expected it would at some point. Noticed nice green growth on the glass and driftwood when I got home yesterday. Going to be some work to get this tank balanced. Hopefully cycle completes in the next week and I can check that box. Ready to get at least a clean-up crew in the tank.


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## Pat24601 (Mar 4, 2017)

shamrock62081 said:


> Ugh! I really get frustrated with the USPS. Looks like my delivery of the bulk of my plants has been delayed and they're being held hostage in Memphis, TN. Doubt they'll be delivered tomorrow knowing how my local post office delivers packages, which means it will be Monday at the earliest. Hoping for the best...
> 
> On a side note, my tank is becoming an algae farm as I expected it would at some point. Noticed nice green growth on the glass and driftwood when I got home yesterday. Going to be some work to get this tank balanced. Hopefully cycle completes in the next week and I can check that box. Ready to get at least a clean-up crew in the tank.


Ouch. Hope the plants are OK.


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

Plants came in around 5:30pm yesterday. They seem ok. Pogo. Kim. seems to have decided to shed some leaves, but I was told it doesn't ship well, so expected that. Minor setback. My solenoid has a short in it (my best guess). Extremely hot and was giving off a burnt smell. Hoping to get that replaced ASAP.

New plants
Lobelia Cardinalis
Pogostemon Kimberly
Heteranthera zosterfolia
myriophyllum Tubercatum
myriophyllum red stem
Rotala Sp Green
Bacopa Caroliniana
Bacopa monnieri
bacopa salzmannii

Previously planted
Rotala Wallichii
Ludwigia Red
Cryptocoryne wendtii "Brown"
Anubias barteri nana
Rotala butterfly
Pogostemon Erectus (tissue culture)
Rotala vietnam (tissue culture)
Hemianthus Callitricoides "Cuba" (tissue culture)
Alteranthera Reineckii "Mini"

Also got the Cerges reactor installed. Have a very small leak I can't seem to stop where the brass fitting connects to the pvc. I hand tightened plus a little more, and it leaked, so I continued to tighten a quarter turn. I've tightened to the point that I cannot tighten it more. I used sealant meant for threaded PVC. Frustrated.


Just found a leak on the left side of the left valve as well. Tightened a full turn. Going to watch. 


I'm really frustrated as previously mentioned. I asked myself last night if all of this frustration was worth it. I'm a numbers guy by profession. I can do this DIY stuff, but I'm a visual learner and get frustrated with some of these bumps, especially when I can't find a demo video showing me exactly what I need to do. Venting done for now.


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

Well the pipe thread sealant that I used on all of my connections for the cerges reactor was a flop in my opinion. I had too many leaks that I couldn't stop. Completely took it all apart and taped all of the connections with teflon. Not what the manufacturers say to do with threaded pvc, but I was able to seal up the system much easier. Hoping I don't get a leak as time progresses like I did with the thread sealant.


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

I completely skipped sealant in my cerges reactor! I just wrapped the threads with PTEF "tape," although you need to be careful not to have tape low enough that it is exposed to the CO2 as it enters the housing. I did tighten with a wrench though. I've had zero issues with leaks in the month+ I've had the reactor installed. 

Hope all of your plants make it, dealing with melted plants due to cold is definitely no fun! As far as algae, no surprise there bc you're pumping a ton of CO2 in for a relatively small plant mass. I'd probably reduce that and drop your photoperiod down to like 5-6 hours max(not sure what you're currently running) until you get that plant mass up. 

As far as a clean up crew, if you're going to, you could probably go ahead an drop in some snails. That's just me though, something I got from some of the guys I really looked up to on this forum when I was starting out. I know you've already got some experience, just sharing where I got the habit from.


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

Yep, PTFE tape for the win. Hoping I didn't get it too low. What happens if you do??


johnson18 said:


> I completely skipped sealant in my cerges reactor! I just wrapped the threads with PTEF "tape," although you need to be careful not to have tape low enough that it is exposed to the CO2 as it enters the housing. I did tighten with a wrench though. I've had zero issues with leaks in the month+ I've had the reactor installed.


We'll see how things progress this week. Not having any CO2 (see this thread) http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/9-equipment/1140570-solenoid-shorting-out.html until I get my solenoid fixed could further my issues. We'll see. Plan on dosing some excel and shortening the photo period to 5 hours.


johnson18 said:


> Hope all of your plants make it, dealing with melted plants due to cold is definitely no fun! As far as algae, no surprise there bc you're pumping a ton of CO2 in for a relatively small plant mass. I'd probably reduce that and drop your photoperiod down to like 5-6 hours max(not sure what you're currently running) until you get that plant mass up.


Tank's still cycling. Hesitate to put anything in there just yet. I'll probably move a nerite from my existing tank once I get through the cycle. It'll be a smorgasbord for the little guy!


johnson18 said:


> As far as a clean up crew, if you're going to, you could probably go ahead an drop in some snails. That's just me though, something I got from some of the guys I really looked up to on this forum when I was starting out. I know you've already got some experience, just sharing where I got the habit from.


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## Pat24601 (Mar 4, 2017)

shamrock62081 said:


> Plants came in around 5:30pm yesterday. They seem ok. Pogo. Kim. seems to have decided to shed some leaves, but I was told it doesn't ship well, so expected that. Minor setback. My solenoid has a short in it (my best guess). Extremely hot and was giving off a burnt smell. Hoping to get that replaced ASAP.
> 
> 
> 
> .


Glad to hear the plants made it OK!

Sorry to hear about other issues, though.


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

Pogostemon Erectus tissue cultures are starting to melt. They haven't put on much growth in the 1.5 weeks they've been in the tank... solenoid can't get here fast enough! Once again USPS frustrates me. How is it that their tracking system doesn't update more frequently? It seems like it only updates with the day's activity overnight. Guess a watched pot doesn't boil so I should cut them some slack.

Cycle continues. After my 50% water change yesterday, I dosed the tank back up to 4ppm ammonia (was 1ppm pre water change). Nitrites were 0.5ppm. This evening ammonia is down to 2ppm and Nitrites are over 5ppm. 

I had some squiggly lines through the algae on the front glass that gave me pause tonight. Surprise! Apparently I have some stowaways on some of the plants I bought. They apparently don't mind the ammonia and nitrites. Enjoy the buffet guys. 

My GLA drop checker has me perplexed. It was a dark blue this morning when I got out of bed. Makes sense. No CO2 running so it's all gassed off. Well it's a shade of green right now with the lights having been on for a few hours. No C02 has been running. CO2 isn't even hooked up to the aquarium right now as I eagerly await the new solenoid. Weird. kH 5, ph 7.2 ===> 9.5ppm C02, which per the chart is approaching the green area.


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## sohankpatel (Jul 10, 2015)

A great plant is Pogostemon octopus, great for starting tanks with (right side of tank in sig pic)
I am confused, Is Rotala Butterfly the same as Rotala Macrandra Mini type IV (Mini Butterfly)?


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

I thought about some of the p. Octopus. It has an interesting look to it. I'm not sure on the rotala butterfly. That's what it was called by the person it came from.



sohankpatel said:


> A great plant is Pogostemon octopus, great for starting tanks with (right side of tank in sig pic)
> I am confused, Is Rotala Butterfly the same as Rotala Macrandra Mini type IV (Mini Butterfly)?


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

Very nice. Looking forward to the progression. Cannot wait to see the scape. 


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

Thanks. I'll try and post a pic tonight. It's a bit of a mess.


clownplanted said:


> Very nice. Looking forward to the progression. Cannot wait to see the scape.


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

Well here's the tank. That driftwood is going as soon as it's replacement sinks!!! It's taking up valuable real estate (though temporarily housing my anubias nana pot)! Notice the nice bit of algae that's taking hold on both the front right glass and on the top of the driftwood. The snails need to get busy. As I said earlier, it's a mess right now.










The myriophyllum red stem in the left corner is awesome. The rotala wallichii started to put on some new growth prior to my CO2 system failure, but it's also growing some algae. Cryptocoryne wendtii "Brown" seems to be bouncing back from the initial melt. The Heteranthera zosterfolia that's dead center looks a lot different than I thought it would. HC Cuba is struggling to get established and the buce lamandau on the rock is waiting for its new driftwood home. Please excuse the algae on the glass.










I have a feeling I'm going to like the bacopa salzmannii (left front) once it gets established and colors up. In the back left is pogostemon kimberly that is behind the driftwood right now. The pogostemon erectus tissue cultures in the very back are melting and growing algae. Lobelia cardinalis on the right. Algae on the glass blocking the nice view.










Lud. Red on the left, bacopa caroliniana center. Rotala vietnam hiding in the back. It started as a tissue culture and was really taking off. Rotala butterfly (mini???) in the front right. Myriophyllum Tubercatum in the back right. Really nice looking plant. Probably going to need to do some rearranging so I get more color contrast between the rotala butterfly and myriophyllum tubercatum. I turned the algae filter on my phone for this one :grin2:










I have some buce sky blue (not pictured) that I think was hit by the cold during shipping. Hopefully it will come out of it once I get my CO2 up and running again. Also have some mini Christmas moss.


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

Did a big water change tonight. Probably 60%. Nitrites are still over 5ppm. Didn't have time to drain it again. Will do water changes to get the nitrite test back below 5ppm tomorrow. Ammonia was at 0ppm though. Progress.


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

CO2 is back up and running! Just in time for lights out in a bit  Now to figure out how to dial in the Cerges' Reactor. Currently at 25psi and 3bps running through the output of my Eheim 2217. Any tips are welcome.

Also completed another massive water change. Probably 80%-85%. Can't tell from the API test whether Nitrites are 2ppm or 5ppm. Not going to worry about it too much. Dosing ammonia back to 1ppm. It'll be around 0ppm by morning.


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

I feel like I've been doing massive water changes the past 3 or 4 days to help the cycle along. Nitrites always read 5ppm+ on my API test kit. Nitrates were around 80ppm+... but I have been EI dosing, so that doesn't surprise me. Did a 90% change this morning. Nitrites at 2ppm. Dosed ammonia back up to 1ppm. Nitrates were around 40ppm. Will start testing Nitrates and only dose those on the EI schedule when they start dipping under 20ppm (or am I wrong in this?). Tank is definitely processing the ammonia. Need the Nitrite eating bacteria to kick it into gear. Hopefully I'm getting close. 

Will dosing to 1ppm ammonia daily (tank processes that in 24 hours) allow me to fully stock my tank at once after the cycle completes? Or, do I need to dose to 3ppm daily?

Algae is definitely growing. Pond snails are loving it and laying eggs like crazy. Hoping to work on dialing in my C02 this weekend. Changed out my drop checker solution with the water change today. Old solution had been in the tank ~1 month.


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

50% water change today based on my EI schedule... though it probably didn't need it since I've done massive water changes every day since 3/22 (5 days in a row) to try and get nitrites below 5ppm to help the cycle along. Is it me or are the API tests hard to read sometimes? If you hold it at a bit of a distance from the white on the card with the color scale it's one color and if you hold it against the card it's another. My best read is Ammonia read 25ppm, Nitrite was 2ppm, and Nitrate between 20-40ppm. Only 15 days into the cycle so I should be getting close, considering I seeded from my existing filter.

Dialed back my CO2 to 2.5bps @ 30psi. At 3bps the drop checker was definitely yellow at lights out and the CO2 had shut off about an hour before that. Drop checker was still green this morning when I got up. 

Plants were definitely happy yesterday. May of them were pearling. Ready to see some growth. Going to work on my DIY root tabs this afternoon so I can add them at the next water change.

Driftwood that I have soaking still wants to float. Grr. Need some patience all around.


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

shamrock62081 said:


> 50% water change today based on my EI schedule... though it probably didn't need it since I've done massive water changes every day since 3/22 (5 days in a row) to try and get nitrites below 5ppm to help the cycle along. Is it me or are the API tests hard to read sometimes? If you hold it at a bit of a distance from the white on the card with the color scale it's one color and if you hold it against the card it's another. My best read is Ammonia read 25ppm, Nitrite was 2ppm, and Nitrate between 20-40ppm. Only 15 days into the cycle so I should be getting close, considering I seeded from my existing filter.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Getting there. I was also having issue of co2 staying at a high level even after 2 hours of co2 off. I turned my Fluval fx4 out higher up to help aerate the surface. Seemed to work. Drop checker turns nearly blue about hour and half after co2 off now. Seems there was not enough surface aeration. 


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

Not much of an update. Still cycling. Started on 3/11 so it's only been about 20 days. Should be close. Started seeing some melt on my Heteranthera zosterfolia yesterday. Tested my nitrate levels and they were really low. I hadn't been dosing KNO3 because my nitrates had been somewhere between 20ppm and 40ppm earlier in the week, and with my tank cycling I was just letting the plants take care of it. They did a pretty good job I'd say. I dosed KNO3 last night to make up for it. Current water parameters:

pH: 6.4 (is ~7.2 after a water change and before CO2 starts)
kH: 3 dKh -- C02 should be in the sweet spot with kH/pH relationship. Drop checker is green.
gH: 12dGh
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 2-5ppm
Nitrate: 5ppm
Phosphate: 10ppm+

Current EI dosing regimen is => 1/2tsp KNO3, 1/8tsp KH2PO4, 1/8tsp K2SO4, 1/8tsp CSM+B

HC looks horrible. I think the pogostemon erectus can officially have time of death called. Everything else seems to be fairly stagnant. An apogentum bulb sent a bloom up to the top of the tank today, so I guess it's happy. Have some algae growing on the Myriophyllum Tubercatum. Think some of that is likely flow issues.

Should I up the KNO3 since I don't have fish yet?

Plan for the weekend is to move my drop checker closer to my substrate (currently 1/3 of tank height from the top) and maybe move my koralia power-head further towards the substrate as it's about 1/3 of the way down from the top on the opposite end of the tank as the drop checker.


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

I would shoot for 15-20ppm of nitrate. Seems to be sweet spot for me anyway. Your phosphate seems high. 


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

That's the Nitrate level I'd like. I dry dose first thing in the morning, so need to spend some time (test, dose, test, repeat) in the morning to get it there. Agree phosphates seem high. I'll probably skip dosing KH2P04 tomorrow and just dose KN03 and K2SO4.



clownplanted said:


> I would shoot for 15-20ppm of nitrate. Seems to be sweet spot for me anyway. Your phosphate seems high.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

I'm now confident my API nitrate test kit has gone bad. First sign should have been the bottle one drops were not yellow, but a brownish orange/yellow. Stinks because the bottles aren't supposed to expire until 2019 sometime and I've only had them for 2 months. What ever happened to quality control?!?!?! I do have some tetra test strips which give some different results when comparing broadly to the API test kits I've been using. :| Good thing I don't have fish because nitrates are sky high and then some after my dosing this morning. Good thing I have a water change coming Sunday to hopefully reset levels.


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## Blackheart (Jul 5, 2011)

Tank looks awesome! Look forward to seeing more pics. Makes me wish I hadn't of sold my 55.


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

Thank you. I'll post an updated picture soon and you'll probably want to take back the compliment!


Blackheart said:


> Tank looks awesome! Look forward to seeing more pics. Makes me wish I hadn't of sold my 55.


Gonna hijack my 55 journal for a moment an show my 20gal. In preparation for the massive water change that I need to complete tomorrow on the 55, I decided to do a massive vacuum and rescape of my 20. The below is the after picture. I'm too embarrassed to show the before and didn't take a picture. I think I lost one of my 3 cherry shrimp when I yanked all of the plants. That or it went through the vacuum into the black muddy water and I didn't see it. No trace of the lone Amano shrimp that had been in the tank. Crypt Wendtii (red I believe) on the left. Possibly crypt lutea on the right. both a fraction of their former sizes. The java fern on my driftwood has seen better days. I think I have some dwarf sag in the front, some cabomba in the back, some bacopa, and some kind of rotala. I've been battling various forms of algae on this low tech tank and needed to just pull some of it. Here's to hoping I'm on the right path.


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

Well here is my before and after of the tank. Not much difference except the 90% water change, cleaned the front glass, replanted some floating stems, and moved both my koralia power head and drop checker lower in the tank.

Before:









After:









The power head being lower is really blowing the AR mini in front of it... but that is a temporary home. Hopefully with some increased circulation my HC will start to grow (you don't see very much of it left, do you... ah melt... 
[























Drop checker is more blue green towards the bottom of the tank so I've increased my bps. Hoping good flow in general will distribute the CO2 that's entering up higher in the tank with the spray bar.

Rotala Butterfly (or whatever) is getting a little more green. I'm blaming myself for the high nitrogen levels in the tank this past week.

Driftwood needs to come out of the tank. It's replacement still isn't sinking. I also picked up some hickory and oak branches out on my family's farm... they'll be soaking soon! Picture doesn't do them justice, but one or all will look great in the tank.


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

So this is happening apparently. It was MUCH smaller this morning. Now it's billowing in the current...










I am tired of waiting on this tank to cycle. Broke down and bought some Dr. Tim's One & Only online. Tried to stop by one of the big boxes on the way home, but they didn't have anything in stock that had the right bacteria in it. 

Drop checker has decided to be more yellow today. Grr. I thought I had it dialed in to a nice shade of green. Wrong. *This tank is starting to frustrate me.*


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## Doc7 (Apr 7, 2011)

I liked to run a yellow drop checker with lots of surface agitation so the fish had good oxygen when I had high tech. If you monitor your fish (don't increase CO2 on a day you won't be watching them, including after tank lights out) and maintain good surface agitation (5 lb bottle still lasts more than a month) you might be OK.


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

Keep calm. It's a great learning experience. Dial back the co2 a bit. Do a ph and kh check an hour before and right when lights come on to verify co2. Check your water parameters. Make sure not too much/ too little nitrates. And ensure ammonia is 0. Almost there. Just keep at it. 

What I do not like about the drop checker is the extreme delay. So today I did a test. During mid day when my drop checker was a nice lime green I changed the fluid. It took 2 hours before it showed the correct level it was before changing

This makes it hard when trying to dial in co2. If too dark it's not hard to give too much co2 changing it yellow in a couple hours and viceversa. Why I like to do a ph/kh check constantly to see where the co2 level is at when dialing it in. 


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

Yah, I need to look at surface agitation. I didn't want to gas off too much CO2 so I moved my powerhead closer to the bottom of the tank, and my spray bar, which is about 1.5" from the top of the tank and sprays slightly downward. You can see the water circulating at the top of the tank, but it has a nice film that's developed. 

No fish yet, so have some time to work on dialing things in first.


Doc7 said:


> I liked to run a yellow drop checker with lots of surface agitation so the fish had good oxygen when I had high tech. If you monitor your fish (don't increase CO2 on a day you won't be watching them, including after tank lights out) and maintain good surface agitation (5 lb bottle still lasts more than a month) you might be OK.












I'm calm, just frustrated. I'll have to do a kh and ph test this weekend pre-co2 and post co2. Tank co2 doesn't turn on until noon, with lights going on at 1pm and I'm at work. I'm thinking of breaking the photo period into two... just need to modify my timers. Agree the drop checker delay makes it challenging to tweak things. Just checked the kh/ph and they were at 3dkh and 6.2ph... co2 had been off for 45min. PH seems to be lower than I've seen in the past. It's my understanding that they final step in the cycle (nitrite>nitrate) can cause ph drops. No time for a pwc tonight, but will add to my list for tomorrow. If that's the cause, I probably just wasted my $ on Dr. Tim's. But, I'll also not have to tweak the co2 once things have normalized. 


clownplanted said:


> Keep calm. It's a great learning experience. Dial back the co2 a bit. Do a ph and kh check an hour before and right when lights come on to verify co2. Check your water parameters. Make sure not too much/ too little nitrates. And ensure ammonia is 0. Almost there. Just keep at it.
> 
> What I do not like about the drop checker is the extreme delay. So today I did a test. During mid day when my drop checker was a nice lime green I changed the fluid. It took 2 hours before it showed the correct level it was before changing
> 
> This makes it hard when trying to dial in co2. If too dark it's not hard to give too much co2 changing it yellow in a couple hours and viceversa. Why I like to do a ph/kh check constantly to see where the co2 level is at when dialing it in.


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

shamrock62081 said:


> Yah, I need to look at surface agitation. I didn't want to gas off too much CO2 so I moved my powerhead closer to the bottom of the tank, and my spray bar, which is about 1.5" from the top of the tank and sprays slightly downward. You can see the water circulating at the top of the tank, but it has a nice film that's developed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I noticed surface agitation means the difference between me running 4 bps and 9 bps both with the same ph drop and drop checker color depending on if my powerhead is running the surface or not. It really does make a huge difference. If I run the 9 bps and power head is off it turns yellow really fast. Water movement really does off gas fast co2 fast. Because I have a high flow canister filter out I really do not need to run power head during co2. With a timer it comes on after co2 to off gas. 


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## Doc7 (Apr 7, 2011)

I guess it depends on your goals. I couldn't count BPS in my tank, just a solid stream. With lots of surface agitation, a yellow drop checked, and no fish stress. To me that was the easiest way to set it all up with healthy plants and no algae. To save a dollar or two a week on CO2 wasn't my goal.


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

Did two big water changes this weekend to help get water back to normal levels (ph was lower than I wanted, Nitrites and Nitrates were off the scale). Saturday's change was 90%, Sunday's was my normal 50% change on the EI schedule, but I changed closer to 75%. Low and behold Nitrites were at 0ppm this morning. Just in time for the bottle of Dr. Tim's I ordered to arrive in the mail today. Dosed ammonia back to 1ppm this morning. Hoping the tank in cycled and will have my confirmation tomorrow. I need a clean up crew in there to help me out. The hitchhiker pond snails just aren't getting it done.

Drop checker is also dialed back in to a nice green color. Finally feel like I'm heading in the right direction.


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

It's been an interesting week. Tank finally cycled. Plants finally putting on some growth, but the tank looks dirty. Still need that cleanup crew, but not in a rush. The pond snail population is huge.

Also had this come up yesterday/today: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/9-equipment/1149945-co2-tank-empty-too-soon.html Added some mineral oil to the bubble counter since the water had evaporated. I tried not to touch the needle valve setting during disassembly/reassembly, so hopefully dialing things back in won't take too long.

I haven't dosed any ferts since Tuesday's micro dose. Nitrates have been pretty high (>25ppm on Wed morning so didn't dose KNO3). I'm assuming feeding the fishless cycle 1ppm ammonia every morning has been a contributor. Phosphates have been high as well. Hoping as plant growth kicks in I'll get back to a true EI dosing schedule. Algae situation seems to be improving. Not sure if some of that is due to the tank being cycled or splitting up my photo period during the day, or potentially a combination of the two.

Current tank parameters:
pH: 6.8
Nitrates: between 10ppm and 25ppm
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Phosphates: 2ppm
kH: 2 dKh
gH: 9 dgH

Will do a water change tomorrow morning. Hopefully I continue to see things start to balance out and improve.


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

After a google search for identification, looks like I have a population of nematodes to keep the pond snails company. Tried to take a pic but they're just too small and fast to capture.


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

Water change. Real exciting, right. Tank was looking dirty from the remains of the algae that seems to be under better control so did some light gravel vacuuming to get as much of that out of the tank as I could. I feel like I need to top and replant a lot of my plants soon as somewhat of a fresh start.

Crypt Wendtii Brown are taking off since I added root tabs a week or two ago. Thinking I might need more crypts in this tank. I like them in my 20gal so not sure why I didn't think about adding more here. The HC Cuba I planted as a tissue culture from day 1 seems to be holding on here as well. Can't say the same for the other plugs in this tank (melted faster than the wicked witch of the west).









The Heteranthera zosterfolia seems to be happier these days. It's put on some nice growth. The Bacopa monnieri seems a bit leggy to me, but it's growing. I had to trim the myriophyllum red stem on the back left last week as it was growing pretty quickly. Hopefully it picks it's growth rate back up before it gets crowded. The rotala wallichii is growing but has lost most of the pink color. My best assumption is that it's due to the high nitrates I've had in my tank. Hopefully now that I'm cycled and don't have the spike associated with that I'll get nitrates under control and some of my red plants will redden back up. Rotala Sp Green also seems to be happy and putting on some new growth.









Lud. Red is looking just ok. Hasn't really put on any growth.









The pogostemon Kimberly is growing well as of the last week. Not getting the pink color at the tops that I'd like, but again blaming the high Nitrates. The bacopa salzmannii is thriving. Not much of the purple color though. 









The Lobelia Cardinalis seems pretty happy. AR mini looks just ok in my opinion. Seems to be growing well, but I'm just not sure I like the coloring at this point. Going to give it some time as my tank continues to find a balance.









I have little bits of HC Cuba hanging in there. The Bacopa Caroliniana is growing as well. Again, it's a little leggy for me and probably needs topped and replanted. The rotala butterfly (something or another) seems to have gone green. Again with the high nitrates. It's pretty dense so will likely top and replant the best stems soon. The pogostemon vietnam behind the bacopa seems to have stalled. Was growing really nicely at first but hasn't put on too much new growth lately. Same with the Myriophyllum Tubercatum behind the rotala butterfly. Could be flow related. The rotala butterfly probably blocks a significant amount of flow.









And a full tank shot. Not as nice looking as a lot of the tanks I see on the forum, but it's a work in progress. Not too bad thus far for my first high tech tank. Learning as I go. Driftwood needs swapped out, but waiting on the replacement pieces to sink. Replacing that will have a remarkable change to the tank. Can't wait :grin2:


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## Blackheart (Jul 5, 2011)

Scape is looking pretty good though.


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

Massive rescape. Needed to get new driftwood in and old out. Took a couple of hours. I couldn't believe how much plant mass I removed. We'll see how things grow. A couple of plants really needed moved where they would get more flow. I think the Ludwigia Red is going to struggle where I have it, but we'll see. It's under my heater and I think the driftwood is going to shade it too much.










Hoping to stock with fish this week since I have a few days off. YES. FINALLY! Tank has been going since early February and I'm just now getting around to getting fish. I've been dosing 1ppm daily ammonia to keep the tank cycled while I wait. Think that's cause high nitrate levels so some of my red plants are more green. The Ludwigia Red looks good because a stem broke loose and had been hanging out at the surface for a week enjoying the high light there. Back to the bottom. Vacation is over Ludwigia red. Hopefully all the tips I replanted will do well since they're accustomed to my water parameters.

I started dosing gH booster a couple of weeks ago. I consistently test 12-13ppm gH which seems consistent with the 2016 St. Louis City water Report here. While the average levels seemed ok in the report, I wasn't seeing much of any plant growth despite EI dosing KNO3, KH2P04, and K2SO4, plus micros. Have seen improved growth since incorporating the gH booster, so we'll see. 

My anubias nana split into two while I was taking it out of the rock wool. So it's tied very badly with fishing line to driftwood now. Also have my two different buce plants tack to the wood. They look a little worse for the wear. I'm hoping they'll bounce back now that they won't be crowed out by other plants for a while.

I might give up on the dwarf baby tears carpet. I have some alive, it's just not doing much. The lobelia and AR mini were doing so well and I am liking them better than I thought. Also liking my crypt wendtii brown and am looking at maybe adding some other crypts if I need to replace some struggling plants.


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

It's been a busy few days for me, and most of it was not tank related. Fish came in the mail on Friday. Yes, finally added fish after months of being set up. All arrived alive and seemed well. *_Sigh of relief!_* 










All was well, that is until this morning (Monday), when I noticed a rummynose that appeared to have ich. It's been so long since I've dealt with ich and I didn't have time to do anything before leaving for work. With inverts in the tank, I knew most meds were no-no's. Researched over my lunch and planned treatment (salt) for this evening. Found the rummynose "fins up" when I made it home. Poor fella. Hoping this is my only casualty. Proceeding with salt. Dosed to 1tsp/gal over the course of 4 hours tonight, and get will take it up to 2tsp/gal tomorrow. Not messing with the temp (~76°F) with the sterbai corys in the tank. Fish seem ok with the salt thus far.

Here's to hoping my plants survive!!! Or is it a good excuse to get some new? 

_*Note: * Fish distract from the plants and scape. I was kind of liking the plant only tank. Remember this future self._


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

Second casualty this morning... Lost an oto.


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

shamrock62081 said:


> Second casualty this morning... Lost an oto.




Unfortunately ottos seem to be very sensative to these kind of issues. Sorry about your losses [emoji17]


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## grassrootsLABS (Oct 12, 2016)

Did you add all those fish together at once? I know Oto and Cory are sensitive but once they make it a week they are known to last. 

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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

Yah, I thought I was doing well with all of the otos surviving the first few days. The other 4 otos were still alive when I got home from work tonight, so hopefully the worst is over.


clownplanted said:


> Unfortunately ottos seem to be very sensitive to these kind of issues. Sorry about your losses


Yes, added all at once. Had completed a fishless cycle, so bacteria were established at a high level. No spikes in ammonia or nitrite after adding the fish. Corys seem fine. One has been a sluggish thing since the day I received them but the others are quite lively.


grassrootsLABS said:


> Did you add all those fish together at once? I know Oto and Cory are sensitive but once they make it a week they are known to last.


Going to up the salt to 2tsp per gallon over the next couple of days. No signs of the ich on any of the other fish, but time will tell. Wonder if the increased salt levels will be conducive to the nerite eggs hatching or the amano shrimp breeding... probably wishful thinking, but hey, trying to turn a negative into a positive!


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

I think the ich has cleared up 10 days later. Didn't see signs of infection on any of the other fish after seeing it on the first. Tank has become pretty cloudy the past couple of days. Plants are starting to take a turn for the worse, particularly the bacopa caroliniana. I'm blaming the salt. 20% water change this evening. Bigger water change this weekend. Lost one rummynose tetra and 2 otos. Hopefully that's the end of my casualties. 

This tank has been one issue after another. Wondering what's next. Green water probably.


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

*Battling Algae*

My tank saga continues. Water seems to have started clearing up from the extreme cloudiness in the aftermath of the salt treatment for ich/ick. Was worried about it being green water as it had a greenish hue, but I think it was a bacterial bloom that's clearing up as some balance is restored.










Have a massive algae outbreak now. Here's the extent of the algae breakout that has happened. Couldn't quite tell because of the cloudy water, but it's bad. Real bad. Guessing a combination of the salt stunting plant growth and the cloudiness blocking light created a real issue. Probably an overabundance of nutrients from decaying plant matter I couldn't see due to cloudiness as well. Seem to have decent flow the way the plants wave in the water. Hoping that a good cleaning of my filter, hoses, intake/output, and powerhead will improve flow enough to get the issue under control. Drop checker is a nice shade of green so don't believe CO2 has been the issue. If anything I've slowly been increasing the bps to increase CO2 in the water. Water change will happen tomorrow (Sunday).































Plan for today:

 Clean filter and hoses
 Add some dual connectors to some hoses to make cleaning a little easier
 New filter floss
 Purigen being added


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

Filter cleaned, floss pad changed, purigen bag added. Wow did the floss need replacing. Feel like it has been just over a month. Things are running at a good flow rate now. For good measure updated test kit results are below. I had to dose KNO3 after my initial test since it was at 0ppm. Dosed CSM+B this morning after the filter change, which could be why iron test seems high. Green drop checker seems to foot well to the gH/pH/CO2 table. Have 2 photo periods a day. Lights will be coming back on later today. Hopefully I start seeing some clearer water.

pH: 6.5
gH: 9ppm
kH: 3ppm
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: 10ppm
Phosphate: 1ppm
Iron: >1ppm


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

Green water! It looks like Slimer took a bath in my tank. Just par for the course with this tank, which has kept me frustrated to say the least. Going to run a UV sterilizer to clear it up eventually. That is if it comes in the mail. While delivery notification says it was delivered Friday, it wasn't. Going to contact the vendor and USPS if it doesn't show up today. I mean, who doesn't enjoy looking at pea soup?


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

*Green Water Update*

Installed a UV filter and pump to clear up the green water. Ignore the messy setup. It's temporary. I didn't think to take a before picture. First pic below is 10 hours after installing the UV filter.



24 hours running UV has made a drastic improvement. I can see the back of the tank!!!!! Side shot shows there is a long way to go.

 

48 hours in and the water is clear. So happy. Still a bit of a haze you can see in person, so plan on letting the UV continue to run for another couple of days.



Below is my next battle. Some kind of algae. It's everywhere. It doesn't come off of things easily either. *How to I treat this? Need some help.* Didn't have the problem before I treated for ich with salt. I believe the salt really threw the bacterial balance, as well as my plants, opening the door for this algae. Drop checker is a really good color, flow seems good based on plant motion. EI dosing. Split photo period during the day of 5 hours on, 5 off, 4 on. Water parameters are pretty consistent with what I've posted in this thread previously.


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## Blackheart (Jul 5, 2011)

I bet your glad the tank is comin' back huh?! It looks good though! Nice aquascape and awesome Rummy Nose! I used to love watching them school back in forth in my old 55.


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

Blackheart said:


> I bet your glad the tank is comin' back huh?! It looks good though! Nice aquascape and awesome Rummy Nose! I used to love watching them school back in forth in my old 55.


I really enjoy the rummynose, even more now that I can see them! The emperor tetras are starting to color up nicely as well. Wish the neons would school more. They seem to stay scattered so get lost in the crowd. I've never had corys until now and do my sterbai have personalities. 

Yah, definitely glad to start getting a balance again. I'm amazed that any of my plants are alive and that some look as good as they do. Hoping to see a nice burst of growth!

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## Blackheart (Jul 5, 2011)

shamrock62081 said:


> I really enjoy the rummynose, even more now that I can see them! The emperor tetras are starting to color up nicely as well. Wish the neons would school more. They seem to stay scattered so get lost in the crowd. I've never had corys until now and do my sterbai have personalities.
> 
> Yah, definitely glad to start getting a balance again. I'm amazed that any of my plants are alive and that some look as good as they do. Hoping to see a nice burst of growth!
> 
> Sent from my KFGIWI using Tapatalk


Neons do not school very much. They really only do when their scared or first introduced into the tank, which is a bummer because they are one of my favorite fish.


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

It seems you've had algae issues from the start. After reading through you whole thread I noticed that your photoperiod was never mentioned. What sort of photo period are you running? Your tank is still not heavily planted, which means that if you're running a long photoperiod it will continue to promote your algae issue. 

For the algae I'd probably do a manual removal of as much as I could. If you have to then continue to remove a little each day, do it. This will give you a chance to maybe get ahead of the algae growth, although it will not fix the issue. When you clean your filter be careful not to do too much as you don't want to reduce your already suffering colony of bacteria. 

For future reference, I would recommend skipping the salt for ich, especially in a planted tank. The salt is definitely not good for your plants or you beneficial bacteria! Most people here use an increase of the temperature to ~90F for the 10 day period. 


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

johnson18 said:


> It seems you've had algae issues from the start. After reading through you whole thread I noticed that your photoperiod was never mentioned. What sort of photo period are you running? Your tank is still not heavily planted, which means that if you're running a long photoperiod it will continue to promote your algae issue.
> 
> For the algae I'd probably do a manual removal of as much as I could. If you have to then continue to remove a little each day, do it. This will give you a chance to maybe get ahead of the algae growth, although it will not fix the issue. When you clean your filter be careful not to do too much as you don't want to reduce your already suffering colony of bacteria.
> 
> For future reference, I would recommend skipping the salt for ich, especially in a planted tank. The salt is definitely not good for your plants or you beneficial bacteria! Most people here use an increase of the temperature to ~90F for the 10 day period.


Definitely had my issues on this journey. A month before the ick, I had switched from a straight 10hr photo period to a split photo period during the day. Helped a lot with some algae I was seeing but I really threw things with the salt. Photo period is currently split 5 hours on, 5 hours off, 4 hours on, for 9 hours total right now. Might seem odd, but works with my weekday schedule (get a good look early before I leave for work and then it's on when I get home later).

Tank feels heavily planted (or at least it did). Not too much real estate for planting in a 55 gal (you live and learn). I need to add more, but time has been a commodity lately and haven't been able to research. Wanted to do some research before adding anything to make sure I get plants that aren't too finicky and difficult, just haven't had the time. May make that a priority this weekend.


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

*Warning! Some of these images are not suitable for those with Algae OCD!* >

Tank is free of green water! Got some plants from a fellow forum member to add some more density to the tank. Have also been manually removing as much algae as I can. It's like spun steel in places! First few pics are from a week ago. Looks pretty sad. Definitely not the thriving tank I'm shooting to have. And the algae on the glass drives developed overnight. You can see the blackish colored algae is covering all sorts of stuff in the tank in the next few pics.







Side shot of the tank. The branches block the light to the substrate in the bank. I've had some trouble with getting any stems to thrive back there. Note sure what to do. Moved some stuff around and hoping some plants that don't require quite as much light will do better than the lud sp. red. And yes, that algae is everywhere! This picture actually gives a good view of some of the clumps.



And some shots from a week later. I overdosed excel two days in a row hoping to help get the algae under control. I think it worked quite well and you can see a lot of the algae starting to turn that pretty red/purple color... went well except my corydoras sterbai school DID NOT LIKE IT! Their normally active behavior disappeared on day 2 (yesterday) and they were all huddled in the corner of the tank. As soon as I noticed I put an airstone in the tank to up oxygen levels. Their behavior returned to normal within 30 minutes.

Everything is starting to look so much better. The amanos are getting huge and seem to be picking away at the dying algae. There are 6 in the tank (or started out at 6), but I can only ever track down 4 at any given time. Even the otos seem to like the munch on the red algae.


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

*August 2017 tank pic*

Here's an update from August 2017. Was feeling pretty good about how the tank had come along since being set up earlier in the year. The ludwigia just never looks right to me. I add gh booster but its leaves still curl under, twist, and generally look a bit deformed.


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

*Dec 2017*

And a pic of the tank today. I did a big trim/replant last week. I had started getting string algae. things were pretty overgrown (didn't take a picture) for my taste, so I assumed could improve some circulation with a trim.

The Myriophyllum Aquaticum “Red Stem” (center) is looking the best it's looked for me. It looks cool, but I'm having less success with it than the all red kind. It grows, just can't seem to get a bunch to grow. Maybe my luck is changing with where I have it planted now.



I really like the Nymphoides hydrophylla 'Taiwan'. It is doing really well in my tank. A little too well. I constantly have to trim it because it shades everthing around it eventually. But it does pearl. 

The crypt wendtii "Florida Sunset" just to the left is just brown. It's growing well, but not showing the coloring I'd like. The AR mini is not doing well. I think it doesn't get enough light anymore. Oh well. will likely replace it with something else eventually.


My buce "sky blue" is thriving. The pic shows what is left after I took a couple of cuttings for other parts of the tank. It has a nice blue sheen to it, particularly in the central vein. The moss next to it seems to really be growing. I don't know what kind it is since it was a hitchhiker.



Pogostemon Kimberly is doing well. I just like how different it looks. 

The Potamogeton gaii (center) does well. It likes to send out runners. I've been mowing it down like grass. the picture shows a good trim and consolidation of the plant.

The ludwigia still looks like it has calcium deficiency. I double down on the GH booster every week. And my water is fairly hard to begin with. Open to suggestions here. Do I just need to supplement calcium directly?

You can see some rotala vietnam in the front left (barely). I CANNOT GROW ROTALA. Period.

The Limnophila aquatica in the back goes through periods of looking great and not. New growth is always a vibrant green. The old growth looses that bright green.


I also really like the bacopa salzmannii. It is all of a sudden struggling though. Something also appears to be eating the tips of its leaves too.

Lobelia cardinalis is thriving in my tank. These little babies will be huge in a few weeks. The bacopa monnieri in the back left is also doing well.

The Heteranthera zosterifolia (star grass) in the front left looks good, then doesn't. It hasn't rebounded from my trimming. When it was crowded by the lobelia, crypt, and bacopa around it, it did great and looked like it was trying to choke other things out. Not so much now. 

Note the rotala (don't know what kind) in the back. Best it's looked ever. Didn't even know I had any alive!


And finally, my crypt wendtii brown looks great. Might have some K deficiency. Or something is eating holes in it (most likely).


Sagittaria subulata seems to be happy. Was happier when it was more to the center of the tank. I don't think it's getting quite the light where it is on the left side of my tank.

The Marsilea minuta is growing a nice little carpet. I didn't realize how much I'd like it. Getting a little shade from the crypts, but I think that slows down the spreading a bit, which I'm ok with.

The myriophyllum Tuberculatum does ok for me. It looks better as it approaches the top of the tank. I can't seem to get a nice dense bunch to grow. I keep it because it adds a different color and texture.

More star grass on the left. It's starting to look much better (for now). And more pogostemon Kimberly in the back.
myriophyllum red stem


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

Working through some stuff in this thread and want to tie into this journal: mgso4-espom-salt-dosing

50% WC completed today to reset my water parameters so I can start troubleshooting fresh. Also completed a massive trim so I can get a clearer picture on new growth.

My sera pH test is fairly useless. It only measures pH in 0.5 increments. Tetra test strips are ok, but not confident in the results. Will get a new test sometime this week. 
@Seattle_Aquarist @dukydaf The below table (taken from Custom Mirco Mix Thread) outlines my planned dosing regimen this week (calcs thanks to Zorfox's Planted Tank Calculator). I didn't test the tank gH because it'll be a bit higher still from last week's excess Mg dosing. Note in addition to the CSM+B I'm dosing, I'm adding some nilocg liquid iron (0.26ppm), so total Iron dosed will be 0.76ppm.

Based on what I've read, particularly some of Tom Barr's comments on others tanks, there should generally be enough ppm of Ca and Mg from my tap water so as not to cause any limitations. That being said, I'm dosing gH booster and some additional Mg.

Will also play with CO2 this week. Put in new drop checker solution. Have a feeling I might be running my CO2 lower than it should be.



Pre and Post trim tank shots for dramatic effect. It was a massacre.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi @shamrock62081,

Wow, you did give that tank a haircut! I was reviewing the entire thread, obviously things have improved greatly; good work!

I was reviewing your 12/16 pictures and a couple of things caught my eye, the B. salzmannii was showing signs of needing additional Ca (leaf tip 'hook') and Mg (older leaves chlorosis and necrosis) and the Buce 'Blue Sky' looks like it would appreciate a little more Mg (leaf margins curling downward with some puckering) and possibly Ca (leaf tip 'hook) as well. I downloaded a picture, enlarged it, and added arrow so you can see what I saw; the arrows indicate the new leaf 'leaf tip hook' and the older leaf chlorosis and necrosis on the B. salzmannii.


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Hi @shamrock62081,
> 
> Wow, you did give that tank a haircut! I was reviewing the entire thread, obviously things have improved greatly; good work!
> 
> I was reviewing your 12/16 pictures and a couple of things caught my eye, the B. salzmannii was showing signs of needing additional Ca (leaf tip 'hook') and Mg (older leaves chlorosis and necrosis) and the Buce 'Blue Sky' looks like it would appreciate a little more Mg (leaf margins curling downward with some puckering) and possibly Ca (leaf tip 'hook) as well. I downloaded a picture, enlarged it, and added arrow so you can see what I saw; the arrows indicate the new leaf 'leaf tip hook' and the older leaf chlorosis and necrosis on the B. salzmannii.


Things have been improved since 12/16, in part to some assistance from you. Trim was needed in my opinion. Too much poor looking old growth. Hoping that this will give me a good fresh start and will be a little easier to assess new growth.

With respect to Ca and Mg, I had previously been dosing 6tsp of gH booster. Cutting that back to 3tsp since testing my tap shows there is plenty already, but also supplementing with 3ppm of Mg via epsom salts. We'll see how the tank responds.


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

WC scheduled for tomorrow. Not sure what to make of the tank. I'm getting some cloudy water. Wondering if it's some sort of bacterial bloom. Or some sort of precipitation (full EI dosing with lower biomass, so maybe P binding with Fe??). Will likely do more than 50% change tomorrow to further reset things.

pH tester came in the mail today. pH was 6.2 just before CO2 turned off before lights out. Going to spend some time working on getting the 1pt drop. Something tells me I'm not quite there.

First pic is today, second is a week ago. The Myriophyllum Aquaticum “Red Stem” center is obviously happy. The Nymphoides hydrophylla 'Taiwan' on the far right is basically a weed in this tank. It is fun for me to watch it growth though. It's just different than everything else I have.




It's just happy with the tank right now. The growth was amazing. I think I grows at night after lights out as it always looks taller in the morning.


The bacopa is growing ok. Something in the tank likes to nip the ends off of it though.


Pogostemon Kimberley seems to be growing nicely. I didn't replant the tops with my trim last weekend, There were some new stems starting at the base of the plant, so I just trimmed pretty close to the substrate. Some moss has made a home there too without my permission.


Jury is out on the bacopa monnieri. I just don't know what normal growth on this is supposed to look like anymore. Some of the growth looks great, some not so great. Some normal looking leaves, some really narrow. 


Rotala vietnam looks better than it did. It's growing slowly. Ignore the neons. I get the camera out and the fish think it's feeding time and swarm the glass (they love them some tubifex worm cubes).


So all in all, I think I'm going to stick with the same dosing regimen again this week unless someone can identify some deficiency I'm not noticing.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi @shamrock62081,

I have to say everything looks much, much better both in growth and leaf formation. With the reduced Ca/Mg just keep watch for new leaf deformities and reduced growth - those are good indicators. I think you have that tank just about 'dialed in' - nice work! Keep us posted how things progress!
-Roy


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Looks like you are really getting somewhere now.

Very nice work. Keep it up. 

Looking forward to seeing where this goes.

You've got a few fast growers in there. Get the scissors ready.


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

Greggz said:


> Looks like you are really getting somewhere now.
> 
> Very nice work. Keep it up.
> 
> ...


Thanks. I'm really trying. 

Unfortunately I'm having a bit of a setback. I have green water again. Rotala green is showing some green veins. Anubias nana new growth looks awful. Some pearling from certain plants. Something is just off. I just don't know what. Going to do WC's tomorrow and Sunday to combat the GW.

Not sure if it is from the big trim/replant from a few weeks ago. I don't have any ammonia or nitrites. The only two variables I can fathom are full strength EI dosing after the trim was too much or that as the days get longer the tank is getting a little more light from the nearby window.

I'm going to switch CO2 reactors. Bubbles are escaping through my spraybar from my cerges as I've been slowly upping CO2. It's driving me a little crazy. Moving to a rex style reactor. should be able to get more of the CO2 dissolved at 100%.

Sent from my KFGIWI using Tapatalk


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi @shamrock62081,,

The green water is likely a combination of the longer daylight hours and nutrients however you have only 35 minutes longer daylight now verses Dec 22nd so likely the very heavy trim without reduction of nutrients. I'm sure you'll get things back under control.


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

Big WC's two days in a row. Purigen bag is back in the Eheim 2217, along with new floss. Swapped out my cerges reactor for a Rex Griggs style reactor. Hoping green water doesn't come back. Full tank shot from this evening below.

I've been messing with my new pH probe this weekend. Tap water is 8.2 pH after sitting on the counter for 2 days. Tank water gets down to 6.5 pH during lights on. Fish don't seem to act any different for there being so big of a swing. I know a lot of things can impact pH, so might not really be a 1.7pH drop from CO2. Drop checker is a nice yellow though. Will try and test where the pH is before CO2 comes on tomorrow morning to see how the tank de-gasses overnight.

Full tank shot from this evening below. Need to work on reducing bubbles from the new reactor. 



Here's a new leaf on my anubias nana. It looks awful. The new leaves have looked like this for a while. The holes are already in it when it unfurls. Not sure what to do. It hasn't responded to any of the adjustments I've made lately as the last couple of new growth leaves have looked like this.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

shamrock62081 said:


> Here's a new leaf on my anubias nana. It looks awful. The new leaves have looked like this for a while. The holes are already in it when it unfurls. Not sure what to do. It hasn't responded to any of the adjustments I've made lately as the last couple of new growth leaves have looked like this.


Hi @shamrock62081,

You tank is looking good! Regarding the anubias, it looks like an iron issue. What is your PH? What are you using for your source(s) of Fe? How much iron are you dosing?



> Terminal bud remaining alive. Symptoms on new growth.
> 
> 1. Interveinal chlorosis on young leaves.
> 
> ...


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## agrasyuk (Jan 5, 2018)

Very good looking tank!


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Hi @shamrock62081,
> 
> You tank is looking good! Regarding the anubias, it looks like an iron issue. What is your PH? What are you using for your source(s) of Fe? How much iron are you dosing?


My pH probe reads 6.8 right now but CO2 has been off an hour... It food to 6.5-6.6... Tap was 8.2 when I tested last weekend. Probe was calibrated. Will recalibrate and test again this weekend and retest tap and tank.

I dose csm+b. Started adding some nilocg iron which contains hallucinate edta and dtpa (0.25ppm total).

I've been dosing k2so4 so wonder if I could have too much k.



Sent from my KFGIWI using Tapatalk


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

agrasyuk said:


> Very good looking tank!


Thanks! Will post a new pic tomorrow. Growth this week has been crazy.

Sent from my KFGIWI using Tapatalk


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

shamrock62081 said:


> I dose csm+b. Started adding some nilocg iron which contains hallucinate edta and dtpa (0.25ppm total).
> 
> Sent from my KFGIWI using Tapatalk


LOL, I wonder what Colin is putting into that iron as a "hallucinate"? Don't you love auto spell-check? It would be helpful if Colin could tell us how much of each is in the mix.


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> LOL, I wonder what Colin is putting into that iron as a "hallucinate"? Don't you love auto spell-check? It would be helpful if Colin could tell us how much of each is in the mix.


Hahaha. I fixed it twice and it still ended up wrong! It was supposed to say gluconate.

Sent from my KFGIWI using Tapatalk


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

Growth this week has been as good as I've seen it. Still getting some chlorosis looking leaves. The lud. red is dull. So for this week, I'm eliminating the extra K2SO4 I've been dosing and we'll see if that help improve a potential iron deficiency. There will be plenty of K (theoretically) in the other ferts that will be added. Re-calibrated the new pH probe. Tap pH is 8... get a good drop to 6.5/6.6, with it coming up to 7.0 just before CO2 turns back on in the morning.

Plan is:


This week -- lots of good growth and pearling, though still have some plants (lud. red, anubias nana, rotala green, rotala vietnam) that look less than stellar. The star grass is really tanking off. The pic is before my WC and is deceiving... it's growth is staying fairly close to the substrate, but it's putting on some legs.


Last Week's tank shot for comparison purposes.


Bump: Also thinking about some new plants... suggestions welcome. Want to get more density, some good texture and color contrasts...


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

*Update 2/10/18*

Things seem to be progressing. Seeing a lot of nice growth on some plants, while others not so much. The Myriophyllum Aquaticum “Red Stem” is really happy. A nice trim to get it back in line is in store. Also starting to see some different types of algae showing up. I eliminated the extra K2SO4 EI dosing this past week thinking there should be more than enough via the other ferts that get dosed.

Full tank shot...


Heteranthera zosterfolia (star grass) is really doing well. Seems to be keeping its growth dense and compact. It is taking over the area around it though. Going to have to trim it so the bacopa salzmannii gets some light (cant see the salzmannii can you!).




I really struggle with the ludwigia red. This is probably the best it has looked. Color is really dull. It's been more vibrant in my tank. Really not sure what to do here.



This is a horrible picture so please excuse my photography skills. The bolbitis hasn't really come back from the trim it received. And the leaves are growing what appears to be two types of aglae. 



The Nymphoides hydrophylla 'Taiwan' looks awesome. I restrained myself last week from trimming and it has doubled in size. It needs a trim now as it's shading the bacopa behind it, and the rotala butterfly that is lime green (definitely no shade of pink in sight) that I've been nursing since I started the tank almost a year ago.



This picture of my Limnophila aquatica doesn't show it well, but the tops look great, but as you go down the stems, I think there is a brown diatom algae (or it looks like that) growing on the leaves.



And while we're talking about algae, I'm getting this stuff down on the gravel. I can see it at the base of the rotala Vietnam, which is also covered in brown looking algae, and also losing it's lower leaves. If rotala is in the name, it won't grow for me.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi @shamrock62081,

Very nice comeback and recovery! Are you still dosing the reduced Equilibrium with additional MgSO4? When you feel you have this tank back in good shape and stable you could try going with DIY GH Booster or GLA, Nilocg, or Aquariumfertilizer.com GH Boosters and save some $$ however Equilibrium does contain Mn and Fe which generics do not.


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Hi @shamrock62081,
> 
> Very nice comeback and recovery! Are you still dosing the reduced Equilibrium with additional MgSO4? When you feel you have this tank back in good shape and stable you could try going with DIY GH Booster or GLA, Nilocg, or Aquariumfertilizer.com GH Boosters and save some $$ however Equilibrium does contain Mn and Fe which generics do not.


Thanks! As you know, it's been a struggle, so I appreciate the help. I've been dosing GH booster all along. Started dosing epsom salts for the extra Mg. Also adding some extra iron (liquid ferrum from nilocg). All in all, have definitely improved how the tank is doing, though feel like I haven't quite hit the sweet spot.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

shamrock62081 said:


> I haven't quite hit the sweet spot.


Well looks to me like you are getting pretty close.

And remember, there is no end zone in this hobby.

As soon as you think you have it all figured out, trust me another issue will come up. And then you start rethinking everything again. 

So enjoy the journey.


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

*Update: Lesson on how not to mix your own micros*

The struggle is real. I've been on a journey of testing things for the past 6 mos. I tried increasing macros at various levels. I decreased the photo period. I messed with CO2. Finally, I thought I'd try rolling my own micros and thought for sure that would help. I switched to @burr740 micromix 13.15 back in August. Within the week I saw a dramatic improvement. Until I didn't. Lots of leaf loss started. Was picking a significant amount of floaters out of the tank daily. WTH. So I started searching what various deficiencies looked like. Looked a lot like Fe deficiency to me. Knew that couldn't be it since my Fe test showed pretty high results. Had to be something else. Maybe not enough Boron? My water quality report doesn't list B so not sure where the tap started, but thought I'd increase .05ppm. Nada. Somewhere I found a thread that said Mn deficiency can look a lot like Fe deficiency. So I thought I'd increase my dosing by 0.05ppm and see how that went. 

Lesson to learn when you roll your own: Don't forget to make sure you add ALL the micros to your mix. I missed adding Mn to my micro mix. Dosed for a month and a half before I realized it. And I was 100% certain that was it because in the box I keep my dry ferts, the one bag of Mn that I had was still sealed. Oops. Immediately added it to my mix.

Since getting Mn back into the tank, the leaf loss has virtually stopped and my plants are actually growing. Still a ton of BBA on my drift wood. Still lots of algae growing on the glass. I did a big trim/top/replant to help gauge how the tank is recovering and I've done a much better job of keeping the tank clean. Something is still off for me though.

Been dosing for 2 weeks at the below levels:


But response isn't that great. Actually seeing some issues. Bacopa is getting some pretty deformed new growth. Same on the Ludwigia sp red. And a lot of the Ludwigia sp red isn't very red. Also, the limonphila gets this brown stuff all over the old growth. Assuming it's been some sort of algae.

Thoughts? Thinking about taking the B back down .05ppm. Not sure what else to try.


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

Feeling a bit discouraged lately. My water hasn't been as clear as I'd like. Not sure if it's a bacterial bloom or mild case of green water. Was aggravated by disturbing my substrate when I pulled plants to trim and replant tops. I've tried to up my cleanliness the past few weeks, but the issue hasn't cleared up. Finally broke out the UV sterilizer today. 

Tank is heavily stocked, so added a HOB filter in addition to my Eheim 2217 about 2 weeks ago. Figured the extra filtration was needed to help me keep things cleaner, and help keep from shocking the tank when I need to do a good cleaning of a filter. 2217 was also given a good cleaning, and I've been alternating changing my pads. The additional surface agitation from the new filter is causing more CO2 off-gassing, so I've tried upping my CO2 into my Rex Griggs, but am now getting microbubbles. Pearling is just ok so figure there is room for more CO2, but I feel like I'm wasting it with the microbubbles I'm seeing. Suggestions?

I don't think ferts are my issues, think it's CO2, but I was getting a 1.2 ph drop and still getting lower leaf loss and battling algae. Fert regimen changes haven't really impacted growth so ruling that out.


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

What browsing through this forum gets you... answers! Added some back pressure by slightly closing a valve in my tubing and micro-bubbles are now gone. Working on the cloudy water now.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Just found this thread, and it looks like you had been making some really good progress. 

Looking forward to an update from you soon!


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

Full Tank shot. Ignore the UV filter. Unfortunate necessity right now. I did a big trim/replant last week. Divided the crypts which were in massive clumps. Feels roomier now.


This is the best looking stem of ludwigia sp red in my tank, and it isn't something I want to write home about. Color in the pic doesn't do it justice. The leaves curl and just aren't right. And it really shows off some algae on some of those leaves that I completely overlooked until now. What you don't see is the driftwood next to this that is completely covered in brush algae and distracts from the algae-wannabe's on these leaves. *sigh*


There is the brush algae! I invested in some SAE's to take care of this. They're babies, but I anticipate they grow quickly given the huge buffet in front of them. That is rotala mini butterfly. And that is the most color I can get it to show. Pearls for me though.


Bought this rotala at the LFS early on in this tank's setup. I seem to be having some success getting it to grow more like a shrubby carpet. It is a really dirty spot in my tank though. I vacuum all sorts of detritus up from inside the clump.


For those faint of heart, look away. My buce is just about covered in brush algae. Not having success keeping it happy these days.


I like the star grass. It's a good indicator of CO2 levels in my tank. I've been failing at keeping up here recently though, but it's bouncing back.


UV has been running most of the day. Water doesn't have the faint green tinge it did when I look long-ways through the tank. Should be much clearer in the morning. And my baby emperor tetras are growing and starting to get some color. They'll be sparring with my existing adult emperors before long. And now a moment of silence for one that decided it wanted to jump out of the tank this week.


Now this shot accurately reflects the color of my ludwigia sp red. Lackluster at best. At least it's covering up the bare bottoms of the pogo Kimberly. That stuff likes to lose its lower leaves in my tank.


The pogostemon (can't recall the type... refer to an earlier post of mine) here really likes to pearl for me. And send out annoying runners to places I don't want it to... It doesn't send runners to bare areas, only to areas currently occupied by others!


If you look closely you'll see the clumping algae starting to grow here. I battle this stuff and can't seem to rid myself of it. Ignore the brush algae. I set some clumps loose today and it'll get vacuumed up during my water change this weekend. I'm not a complete heathen.


Still continue to mess with this tank. Definitely gives me fits. But I continue to tweak things. Due to refresh with some new plants but the weather hasn't cooperated. Trying to keep my tank cleaner these days. Filter pad changes are going to be more frequent. And I'm better about picking out the free floating leaves. Trying to be cleaner, but with a fully stocked tank, it's not that easy.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Hey great to see an update from you. Been following for a while now.

Looks like more going right than wrong. I like the FTS, don't be so hard on yourself.

I would clean off all that BBA, and get a bit of fresh start. Like I said, tank in general looks pretty darn good, and lots of reasons to be optimistic. 

Look forward to seeing where it goes from here.


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## Ken Keating1 (Nov 22, 2017)

Can you repost your dosing and tank parameters using Greggz's newer version spreadsheet?

Also, are you still running the lights on for 9.5 hours/day? If so, that's a fairly long time. For algae control I'd drop that down to no more that 6 hours total/day.


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## Jamo33 (Feb 18, 2014)

Sometimes tanks get out of control. But its an obstacle to make you a better aquarist. Tank looks awesome!
That BBA could use a peroxide dip or injection with filters off. 
I personally wouldn't rely solely on the SAE, in my old 75 they would eat some, but not huge amounts. Better used as a control fish, not a solution to BBA.
Keep it up!


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Great update! I have a lot of respect for those who share everything they are facing. 

Honestly, my opinion is don't be so hard on yourself. Most of the time we are our own worst critics, and get ourselves down!

This is a tank you clearly have a passion for and have been enjoying. Make sure you don't let a little BBA on the wood and old leaves ruin it for you. There seems to be a lot going right.

I was having an issue with BBA on the wood and actually have pulled mine for the time being. A good treatment with H2O2/ Excel/ Glut outside the tank can help clean the wood up quickly. From there you can start looking for the root cause of it.

Thanks for sharing and looking to following along!


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

So this happened today. Got 98% of the decomposing bark off of the driftwood. I couldn't get any of it off when I first acquired it. It's been in the tank awhile and was apparently decomposing, creating prime environment for BBA. Scraped off so easily. I gave it a good spray of peroxide when I was done. Dipped the buce too. Hope to see the buce bounce back.



Hoping this reduction in organics in the water column helps. Tank is starting to get clearer. Going to let the UV sterilizer run for a while. It's not pretty hanging there, but I'm in no hurry. Water change day tomorrow and since I'll inevitably stir stuff up, it'll be good to keep the UV on.



Current tank specs. Will probably up my dosing next week. Thinking of taking NO3 up to 30ppm in dosing for the week. Yes I run my lights 9.5 hours. I split the photo period up though. Like to look at the tank before I head off to work, and then I have the evening to enjoy it as well. Still playing around with CO2 since I added the HOB filter and have more off gassing. More to come on that front and testing the pH. 

As my first high tech tank, it's been a learning experience. Lots of struggles, but the enjoyment I get is worth it. I've refrained from throwing rocks at it thus far despite wanting to sometimes seeing all the great tanks in the forum!


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

I've been fairly obsessive about tank cleanliness the past couple of weeks. Constantly checking for floating leaves that have been shed. The pogo. Kim. is the biggest offender. I'm not ready to top it yet to get rid of some of the older leaves that are not healthy. Changed my filter pads in my eheim 2217 (pad consists of 50 micron felt, and 3 layers of polyfil batting). I really wanted to see how they looked after 2 weeks. Not too bad. Probably could have gone another week, but oh well. Will change the pads on the HOB next week. Vacuuming suprised me today because there wasn't nearly the debris that I'd seen previously. Hopefully some of the steps I've taken the last couple of weeks will make a difference.

Reducing lighting to one 6 hour photo period going forward. @Greggz is a bad influence... received my Kasa smartstrip in the mail today... I'm so excited to not mess around with the clunky manual timers for my lights and CO2. I could never quite sync them up. I've been looking for something easy and I couldn't find a timer that was easy to change when I have to be out of town, and change back... problem solved.

Adding 1/2tsp more epsom salts to the tank this week. The more I read the more I've been trying to get my Ca/Mg ratio below 7:1. We'll see if that helps some of the interveinal chlorosis I've been seeing. It's not caused by a lack of N, K, or P, that is for sure. Hoping to see some positive results from the ludwigia super red.


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

Made some changes. Put some new lighting on the tank. Not sure what to expect from my plants and how long to see them adjust. Went from ~60 par at substrate to closer to 100. Thinking it was a bit of a shock (or sunburn) to the system. I had done a big trim to get rid of plant mass last weekend and just haven't seen any meaningful growth. And pearling is not what it was. Hoping I'm just in an adjustment period. Pogo Kim seems to be getting worse looking.

Also has some fish death this week. 2 of my juvenile emperor tetras jumped. Had an adult emperor tetra croak (they've been sparring, it was wounded). One of my neons croaked. Rough week. Treating the tank with melafix and primafix mostly because my rummy nose tetras have something. For lack of better description, they have this white scaly growth. Not sure what it is. Not ich, it's not fuzzy. Can't seem to find any similar images online to help diagnose. Thus treatment approach. Don't think the ottos like the prima/melafix combo much. They've been hanging at the top of the tank. Wondering if those meds impact oxygen levels. One of the ottos likes to keep its head out of the water right now, and others seem less active.


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

More fish suicides.:crying: I've found 4 on the floor this past week. A neon and 3 emperor tetras. Sigh. Probably because I switched my lights which means more uncovered tank for escape attempts.

It'll be 2 weeks on Saturday since I added new lighting. At 100+ par at the substrate now. Not seeing much in the way of plant growth considering I was at 50-60 par previously. While I would like to attribute it 100% to new lighting adjustment period, my gut tells me something is still off in the tank.

I've been following the Share your dosing thread which has me thinking about my next steps.

Used the API Ca Test to determine Ca2+ levels following methodology found here. My tap is 30ppm Ca2+ or 4.2° of gH. My tap has a total gH of 8°, thus my Mg is 3.8° gH. Thus tap Ca:Mg ratio is 1.1 to 1.0.

Now the fun has started. I thought I had a tap Ca:Mg ratio of 8.5 to 1. Honestly looking back there is likely a large amount of error in how I came up with the figure. Likely wrong. I was dosing epsom salt (MgSO4.7H2O) to get closer to a 3:1 Ca:Mg ratio based on what I thought were good figures. 

Fast forward to today, when I then tested for my tank's current Ca2+ levels and gH. Results put me at at 0.8 to 1.0 Ca:Mg ratio.:frown2:

So my next step is going to be to stop dosing the extra epsom salt, and maybe dose some Ca to get closer to a 2:1 ratio and see how the tank reacts.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

shamrock62081 said:


> My tap is 30ppm Ca2+ or 4.2° of gH. My tap has a total gH of 8°, thus my Mg is 3.8° gH. Thus tap Ca:Mg ratio is 1.1 to 1.0.


Not quite.

Ca 30 ppm = 4.2 GH
Mg 16.5 ppm = 3.8 GH

The Ca:Mg ratio is 30/16.5 or 1.81 to 1.


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

Greggz said:


> Not quite.
> 
> Ca 30 ppm = 4.2 GH
> Mg 16.5 ppm = 3.8 GH
> ...


Thanks for keeping me honest @Greggz! And for the help. Ratio I calculated was using the degrees hardness. So tap is 30/17=1.8:1; Tank right now is 30/30=1:1


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

Notice hair algae strands starting to form throughout the tank last night when I came home. Ugh. I'll admit the increase in light is a big component of that issue. For being 2 weeks since increase in lighting, plants have not responded with growth, continuing my quest to find what is off in the overall balance of the tank. Going to start with targeting calcium as I previously noted. Have some CaSO4.2H20 I'll start adding on Sunday post WC. CO2 is good. Going to re-calibrate my pH pen, but tested gassed off tap earlier this week and it showed an 8 pH, while testing the tank water showed a 6 pH. That's a full 2 point drop and my fish seem to be normal, so want to make sure the pen is calibrated and then retest.

Still can't seem to get CO2 fully dissolved in my reactor. Any more restriction in flow to create back pressure will mean no flow. May have to look at other options for a reactor so I an rid myself of the micro-bubbles.


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

*And now for something different*

WC for the week completed. This week, I'm not adding any Mg (via epsom salt dosing). I am however bringing up my Ca levels a bit by dosing some CaSO4.2H20. Ca:Mg ratio should be closer to 2.2:1.0 now. We'll see how plant growth responds. Have some healthy skepticism that I won't see any meaningful change. 

Current parameters/dosing for the next week.


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

Update. So watching Ca and Mg levels. Tap has definitely fluctuated a bit over the past 3 weeks. I've been targeting a 5:1 Ca:Mg ratio. Things seem better, but nothing dramatic. My pogostemon Kimberly is the drama queen in the tank. Can't seem to make it happy. Just when I think it's improving, older leaves start getting bleached out spots and they deteriorate from there. Mobile nutrient? It's not N, P, or K. Tank has plenty of all those.



Bump:

Bump: When you hit the post button by accident...

The Nesaea pedicellata 'Golden' that I got from the LFS here is still transitioning to immersed. It's not entirely happy. Note the algae forming on its leaves. It sure it pretty though. Hope I can figure out how to make it happy. 



So the pogo kim. Really trying to capture what I'm talking about with the leaf bleaching, holes forming, etc. but it's hard to capture on camera. Scratch my head on this one.




And then we have the Ludwigia. It just doesn't want to get that deep red color. Every now and then a stem will be happy. But not consistently. 



So plan this week is to keep on with the Ca:Mg target. Also backing down the K by not adding additional K2SO4 and seeing if that helps. Tap should have 5ppm, plus all the K that is in the KNO3 and K2PO4. We'll see.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

When you increased your light, did you measure that with a PAR meter?

The reason I ask has to do with the color of both the Pogo K. and Ludwigia. That Pogo K. shouldn't really be green at all, at least under enough light. And Ludwigia getting deep red is almost all due to light. 

I just don't think adjusting ferts will make that much difference in color.

Just a thought.


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

Greggz said:


> When you increased your light, did you measure that with a PAR meter?
> 
> The reason I ask has to do with the color of both the Pogo K. and Ludwigia. That Pogo K. shouldn't really be green at all, at least under enough light. And Ludwigia getting deep red is almost all due to light.
> 
> ...


Yep, used the seneye. Just took this reading at substrate to double check. My mystery continues...


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

shamrock62081 said:


> Yep, used the seneye. Just took this reading at substrate to double check. My mystery continues..


Yeah that really is a mystery, because that is plenty of light.


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

Ugh. Tank is rebelling. Does not like my dosing (eliminated K2SO4). I'm still adding 27ppm K weekly via my KNO3 and KH2PO4 dosing, and water report says I should have 5ppm in tap. Ludwigia is really stunting. And so is some of the rotala butterfly mini. And green water or a bacterial bloom is in the works. Something is definitely off. When I test for NO3 at the end of the week, it's way higher than it should be, and I only feed my fish 3 times a week and only my wafers for the cories make it to the bottom. All fish are present and accounted for. Needless to say the UV sterilizer is in operation again. I have to use it way more than I should. 

Really discouraged I haven't found that balance in my tank and I've been on top of cleanliness. This weekend is my 3 week filter cleaning weekend. Ugh.


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

Tank continues to be a work in progress. I've been modifying micros lately, particulary Boron, to see if I get any improvement in growth. Might be on the right track, but will be a few more weeks before I can say for sure. Lud. sp. Red is putting off a lot a side shoots and color is improving (still not ideal). Pogo Kim is also looking better than it has in a long time. Star Grass is also doing really well. Probably have another week of current micro solution mixed, so will lower by another 5ppm in total weekly dosing in next batch.

Current Mirco Dosing ppm per week (daily dosing) is:
B: 0.17752
Cu: 0.0154
Fe: 1.05847
Mn: 0.52430
Mo: 0.00511
Ni: 0.02050
Zn: 0.38472

Front load 30ppm KNO3, 6ppm PO4, and 25ppm K.


Side note - major substrate change on my 20gal. Took out the gravel and switched to Black Blast. It's a low tech tank with 1 neon, 1 columbian tetra, an olive nerite. Old gravel was a light color, so the black sand gives it a completely different look. Hoping I'm able to keep things cleaner. The gravel accumulated so much detritus even with weekly vacuuming. We'll see how the crypts handle the transition.


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

*January 2020 Update*

Shame on me for my last post being from August. I've been busy with this tank but guess I haven't documented it here (if it isn't here did it not happen:wink2 Original stocking of fish has slowly dwindled. Have been growing my school of Pearl Gourami's to 5.

I've slowly been reducing Boron in my dosing. Was up to 0.21ppm total for the week back in June 2019, and dropped it down every few weeks from there. Currently at 0.075ppm per week. Plants have been very responsive, but feel like I still have some room to go. Ludwigia super red gradually became more and more red and the leaves less curled and deformed. My Christmas moss is going crazy. Buce (not sure if it's sky blue or lamandau purple) has bounced back and while not perfect looking like it is actually growing. The star grass has also started showing much better/faster growth since reducing B. Still struggling with Pogo. Kim and Nesaea pedicellata 'Golden'.

Current dosing:









Here is where we diverge. I have had my suspicions about my water. Big unknowns (Ca, Mg, B, etc). Decided to give ICP-Analysis.com a try. Test kits seemed reasonable. Well I got my test results back (plan is to test a few more times this year to take into account changes in source water (spring flooding of the Mississippi). 










If results can be relied upon, looks like I have 0.09ppm Boron in my tap. Tells me I'm on the right track in bringing my dosing down. Also, looks like right now, Ca is lower than when I used a home test kit to find out, and Mg is higher. in the 20+ppm for each, tells me I might not need to be adding either. I've been adding 10ppm of Mg each week.

So thinking about what my next adjustment will be. Need to mix up a new batch of micros. Open to suggestions on the one thing to think about adjusting.

Some latest tank shots. A good cleaning is happening this weekend (missed last week's water change because I was gone). Please ignore the dirty glass and the algae, particularly on the Nesaea pedicellata 'Golden'. I'm determined to get that plant to grow!


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

*Eheim explosion*

Tank has been humming along. I always think about taking pictures after I've done a big trim. Seems like most plants are happy since I've been reducing Boron in my dosing. Haven't done any followup water analysis tests. Plan was to test at different points in the year but since I'm not in the office (wow-9 mos now) takes more effort to ship UPS and it's just not a priority.

Today I needed to clean out my eheim 2217. Lots of BBA on the output so signaled it was time. It has been long overdue. Surprisingly the majority of the hoses were cleaner than I was expecting. 

All was going well until I went to fire the filter back up. Since I had dumped the water it needed a complete fill. Well I had the output valve closed, turned on the input valve (already had a siphon on the hose) to let the water in. Well I opened the output valve and heard gurgling and was ready with my bucket (I like to get all the air out before I hook the hose up to the CERGES) and the top of the canister popped off! I was scrambling! 

Thank heavens for people posting pictures of their setups on this forum. Because of that when I set up the tank I put the cannister in a plastic bin to catch leaks. Never would have thought of that precaution otherwise. Well most of the water was contained to this bin. Had a good puddle against the wall and in the bottom of the stand, but could have been much worse. 

So I adjust and double check the clips (maybe I missed connecting one). Ok. All good to go and ready to fire the filter back up as I've done a hundred times. IT HAPPENED AGAIN! 

Not sure if it was me re-greasing the o-ring, too much filter media (a have a few cutouts of quilt batting plus a micron pad cutout) but it's the same setups I've used time and again. I removed one of the layers of quilt batting, tried to bend the clips a little so they'd get a better hold, and then before I opened the inlet valve I hooked up the outlet and had it open so the pressure wouldn't be so high. No explosion this time! I even unplugged the until to make sure if I lost power I wouldn't have a problem. All good.

Not sure what happened but it was not fun. Didn't really want to clean out the filter today anyway (it's time consuming and makes a mess).

Pics to come.


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

*Picture Update 12/12/20*

Current dosing. I've been slowly decreasing Boron (H3BO3) that gets dosed over a week by 0.005ppm. Micro mix usually lasts me about a month, and as things improved I started delaying the decrease. Mix today has me dosing 0.046ppm over the course of the week (0.00652ppm daily). That's down from a whopping 0.08ppm a week that I was dosing a year ago. I'd expect some fluctuation in my tap too over the course of the year. Otherwise Micro dosing hasn't really changed.

The other thing I started to do was bring down my KH some. I have hard water, but not too hard KH-wise (can be 3-5 KH). I've been dosing HCl to bring KH closer to 1. Have quite a bit of Ca in my tap, but it's mostly CaCO3 -- so wanted to free up some of that. 

Whatever I'm doing is working :grin2:





Some pics from this afternoon about an hour after lights on. Full tank shot.




The ludwigia super red likes the high light. Thought I was going to lose this plant at one point. Seems ok. Not quite as happy as I'd like it, and by the time it gets close to the surface and is nice and red I trim it, so short lived beauty.




Nesaea Pedicellata Golden is much happier. I thought I'd lost it for a while. But it just came back one day. I have trouble with the lower leaves always getting algae. The stems of the plant don't get the nice reddish orange color they should, but I'll keep tinkering with things and see what happens. I kind of like the Persicaria sp 'Sao Paulo but it grows so fast. One day it it is submerged, the next it is popping up out of the water. Not sure what to do with it as it gets a little lost in everything else where I have it.





Emperor tetras are one of my favorites. Stuck some hygrophila pinnatifida in the back corner. It's just ok to me. I don't like the runners it sends off. Christmas moss is happy.




Pearl Gourami's are my favorite. Just something about them that is eye catching. Trident java fern has relaly taken off. The myrio likes it there better than where I had it.


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

It's been a while since I've posted on this tank. It seems to be humming along for the most part. I have really been neglecting it... particularly weekly water changes. Work has been crazy in addition to yardwork this time of year. 

As I've retreated back into the house the last couple weeks due to the heat here in STL I've been thinking about converting this to a low light tank so I don't have quite the level of maintenance. Thinking about moving from a seachem flourite black substrate to sand.


You would never know there are fish in here. I don't even know what fish are left. I think I have 1 pearl gourami that hides all the time. Still have several emperor tetras. Several corys that seem to be fine. It's overgrown.


I struggle getting Pogo. Kimberly to grow. Not sure what changed in my tank from when I first set it up exactly, but it just struggles and never looks good except the top and this picture doesn't even show it looking good.


The star grass thrives in this tank but it's at the point where I need to trim it back or the bottoms start looking bad due to lack of flow and light through them. The bacopa is just easy. Hack it back and watch it grow back to the surface. The rotala (??? on specific kind) in the back left looks horrible at the substrate but great as it stretches for the upper part of the tank where it gets more light. The green rotala in the bottom left just gets covered in Christmas moss. That corner is the dirtiest part of my tank.


Just an overgrown mess. Read to get this driftwood out, even though it has been great visually. Just don't get anything to grow under it because of the shade from everhthing growing on it.


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