# Gaia: High-Tech 20L Journal- Post vacation pics 8/16/09



## wschalle (Aug 17, 2007)

I think it would be worthwhile for you to at least salvage any of the more hard-to-find species you had in your tank, by culturing a few stems or something...


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

I think that you'll love that AS for sure  It's always nice to start a new scape.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

here is my plant list:
riccia, hornwort, rotala rotundifolia, limnophila sessiliflora (asian ambulia), java ferns, java moss, crypts wendtii (green, green and brown, bronze), a nana, a petite, lileopsis mauritius, and some other plant i had ided but forgot what it was.
nothing whatsoever rare in there. pretty, but nothing worth risking my next scape for.
i will however remove my anubias, bleach them and clean off the algae, and then grow them in my terrarium like i mentioned, since the petite is huge, and the nana was my very first plant (not big though, since a few years ago i cut off like 80% the rhizome, and then a year ago i cut half off).
my redo will hopefully have some slightly rarer plants, plus im thinking of trying an erio.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

clwatkins10 said:


> I think that you'll love that AS for sure  It's always nice to start a new scape.


urgh, you posted while i was typing. 
thats always annoying. 
jk. im just glad people are posting, lol. 

yeah, thats the most fun part for me. im not one of those people that just sits around watching the grass (oops, i mean stems) grow. 

im looking forward to using AS. its a win win situation. either it works out great and i have plants growing like mad and big healthy erios and such, or it clouds up and turns to mush and i get to laugh at my $60 mud and use it in my environmental sience AP class to demonstrate erosion. lol.
seriosly though, im hoping it doesnt cloud the hell out of my water.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

ok guys, i planned the scape. what do you think:

top









front


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

ok so i am deciding to go with EI, and make the tank really high tech. 
in addition to the current light (2x 65w PC bulbs), and the pressurized CO2 (controlled through ph controller and a timer to shut it off at night, diffused through a reactor), i am adding auto-dosing. thanks to the people who helped me plan it. this is what i came up with:
2 buckets (a gallon each), one for macros and one for micros (dry fertz)
2 aqualifters
the aqualifters will be controlled by the computer program homeseer.

any opinions?


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

ok, so on wednesday i will be tearing into the tank. im not a hundred percent sure of how to go about it though, so suggestions are appreciated. what i have to do:
-suck out 20 gallons of water through a python
-salvage lilleopsis and bleach it (will it survive?)
-salvage crypts
-salvage rotala and another stem plant (forgot the name)
-clean out the filter and tubing
-look for an amano shrimp in there that may still be alive
-remove gravel
-clean the tank (clean of algae, and some light sterilization)
-boil the wood
-move the cabinet and tank (just rotating really)
-place filter intake and outake
-fill with gravel (AS)
-put wood back in
-plant the plants
-fill the tank with water without clouding it up
-set up autodosing
-order remaining plants

ok, so im planning on doing it in that order, do you guys have any suggestions?
i also have a few questions:
how long can the biomedia stay out of a runinning filter before drying out? i want to keep the bacteria alive.
does anyone know if lilleaopsis can take a bleaching?
any suggestions on filling the tank without clouding up the water too much from AS?

also if anyone has the following plants and is willing to sell them, please post or pm:
r. macrandra (v narrow leaf is preffered) FOUND
stargrass FOUND
r. wallichi FOUND
riccia
glosso (need a good amount as you can see) FOUND
d. diandra FOUND
downoi FOUND
erios (mato grosso, japan, or ones that look similar)

thanks.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Pull the plants first, let the filter run for a while to clear the tank a bit so you can check for fish/shrimp...


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

ok, so today, other then working on my eclipse (turning out a tragedy, please help me), i went in to salvage un-infected plants.
this is an example of infection:








anyway, i took out crypts, r. rotundifoila, and a stem plant i got ided but forgot the name (im gonna go luck it back up when i post this and post its name). ive got them sitting in a bucket under a light:









friday im going to bleach the infected plants that i hope will survive the bleaching: my nice big java ferns, and lilleaopsis. then ill throw out the rest of the plants. 
saturday i plan on removing the gravel, boiling the wood, cleaning the tank, and cleaning the filter. depending on the time, i may shift the tank over, put in the AS, and set it up and plant; but that will probably have to wait for sunday.

any opinions, comments, anything to show me the thread is being read?


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

im reading  cant wait to see it up and runnning.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

you honestly have no idea how much motivation that gives.
lol. sad i know.


im gonna make an awesome tank thats gonna pwn my dads little reef.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

lmao thats the spirit! stick it to the reefers


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

ok, i just ordered plants from aquariumplants.com.
got wallichi, macrandra, hornwort, glosso, and diandra.
their stargrass was out of stock. if anybody has any they are willing to ROAK, or sell cheap, please let me know.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

i found the plants id:
Nesaea pedicellata

ive had this plant for ages, and it grows really well for me. it was the only plant in the whole scape that didnt have the tinies bit of algae on it.


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

Out of curiosity how did you go about doing the bleach dip? When ever I've tried before I've melted both plant and algae...


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## Francis Xavier (Oct 8, 2008)

I know what you mean about supportive posts bringing motivation! After spending hours planting leaflets it's refreshing to see someone appreciate your work. And I'm totally with you on that algae mess. My roommate actually was worried he didn't have enough (he filled his 30g with nothing but large snails, ghost shrimp, and two albino cory's, he wants to add oto's and is afraid there isn't sufficient algae for em), so i told him if he was that worried I'd transfer some algae from my tank free of charge.

Hope to see some updates! Maybe I'll see some inspiration for my own setup.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

garuf said:


> Out of curiosity how did you go about doing the bleach dip? When ever I've tried before I've melted both plant and algae...


ive done it before on a bunch of plants. most did melt. anubias never melted for me. the ferns did sometimes, but the bare rhizome shot out leaves pretty quickly afterward.
i never tried lileaopsis, and i hope it will survive.
im gonna start in a few hours.



Francis Xavier said:


> I know what you mean about supportive posts bringing motivation! After spending hours planting leaflets it's refreshing to see someone appreciate your work. And I'm totally with you on that algae mess. My roommate actually was worried he didn't have enough (he filled his 30g with nothing but large snails, ghost shrimp, and two albino cory's, he wants to add oto's and is afraid there isn't sufficient algae for em), so i told him if he was that worried I'd transfer some algae from my tank free of charge.
> 
> Hope to see some updates! Maybe I'll see some inspiration for my own setup.


he can have my algae, lol.
updates in a few hours.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

ok well, i got a new camera for my bday, and ill use it for the updates. 

im gonna start digging into the tank, ill take a brake and post once all the plants are out of the tank and either bleached or thrown out.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

good luck! Can't wait to see the new setup!

And I'd agree, the best plan would probably be to pull the plants first, then let the filter do it's thing for a little while so you can see who's still in there. 

As for keeping the filter full of beneficial bacteria, if you plan to sterilize it to make sure it doesn't have any nematodes etc in it then you'll lose all your bacteria. If you plant to clean it well but not sterilize it, do it in tank water if you can, otherwise in fresh dechlorinated water. Then you'll have to keep the filter running on a bucket or something that has fish in it as an ammonia source. Or hook it back up on the tank as soon as you get the tank moved and then either put the guppies back in even if you don't get to planting, or add a little bit of food even if there are no fish/shrimp because the breaking down of the food will release some ammonia. The bacteria need an ammonia source to survive.

If you only have 2 surviving guppies and possibly some shrimp though, i'd personally go ahead and sterilize the filter and then shoot for a silent cycle in the tank, a pair of pygmy guppies and a couple shrimp aren't going to add a whole lot to the bioload, or if you have somewhere else to house them, you could do a fishless cycle. I find that as long as you stock slowly and have a beneficial bacteria seed source, silent cycles are pretty easy to achieve as long as you plant heavily. You may still need to do water changes if ammonia / nitrItes creep up at all, but when I did my 30 I found they eeked up to .25 over the course of a few days, and then I would do a water change, but the stems took care of the rest


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

plants have all been pulled, ferns and lileaopsis were bleached. hopefully they dont melt (since i like the lileaopsis, and some of those ferns are huge and it would be a shame).
there is nothing alive, so i will clean the filter very well, as im not worrying about fish or shrimp. they all died already. :icon_sad:
anyway here are a bunch of pics of the process and captions:


the tank









fern









fern









lileaopsis (this was all from one little pot a few monthes ago!)









lileaopsis









soaking in dechlore water after bleach









dead bleached algae









trash from tank









tank now


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Sorry to hear the last few fish didn't make it! But in that case, I'd definitely just five the filter and the rest of the tank a good sterilization to get rid of nasties including algae spores. And then just re-cycle it. If you have a lot of fast growing stems, silent cycling is an option. Good luck! can't wait to see the new scape!


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

i will sterilize the tank, but tubing and filter will just be washed. sterilizing all that stuff is too much for me.
the tank is draining right now, and then i have to go dig all that gravel out of there.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

a quick bleach dip is all it should take to sterilize, mild bleach solution, rinse until you can't smell bleach anymore, and then dechlor if you choose, in the fish room at work we use the rinse til you can't smell the bleach anymore rule and call it good. Filters are an excellent haven for nasties to build up and mature, you might just end up with nematodes again, i'd suggest sterilizing.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

ugh.
now you made me nervous.

fine ill sterilize the media. my dads opting for new bioballs, but unless there is something obviously wrong, im just doing a few minute bleech dip.

though there are no nematodes. the medication was most likely portioned wrong. it killed all the fish, melted the crytps (yes it even kills plants), and even kill a million or so snails.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

yipes, maybe you nuked it enough already. But since you're breaking the tank down because of this problem, you wanna make sure it's erradicated before setting it back up so you don;t find yourself in the same position as soon as you get fish back in there. Might take a little extra time but will probably save you a lot of time, $$ and aggravation in the long run to do it as well as you can the first time around you know? 

I'm not trying to be a pain, just speaking from experience. 

Good luck!


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

I say start it fresh dude... If things were _that_ infected, you owe it to yourself to do it right the second time around...


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

its not why im breaking it down. i was going to move and rescape anyway in a month or so. figured now would be a better time. plus all the dead crypt roots and nematodes and snails etc. made the tank smell awful.

anyway, i have emptied the tank, removed the gravel, moved the stand + tank, cleaned the glass, bleached, cleaned the filter, cleaned the prefilter and surface skimmer, and boiled the wood. when i post this i will go to clean the tubing.
here are pics of the proccess:




























































btw, i added purigen to the filter in prep for the AS. and i found my amano shrimp, he got stuck under the prefilter (idk how he got in), and starved or something.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

I hope this next tank works out better  I heard aqua soil, so I think you'll like the results


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

i definately hope so.

omg, i am so done.
i am just about sick of scrubing glass, and tubing and such.
but tomorrow, i just need to fill and plant. pics with captions:

magic dirt:









magic dirt in the tank with wood and equipment:









let there be light:









a few inches of water to let the AS settle overnight:









the whitish cloudiness is normal right?


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

@[email protected] said:


> the whitish cloudiness is normal right?


I think so. So why did you decide to get some amazonia II?


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

i needed more then 9 liters of substrate, but less then 18. and they werent selling amazonia I in 3 liter sizes, so i substituted with II. i only used half the 3 liter bag, and though i hear II isnt as good as I, i doubt its bad (its still ADA).


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

ok, the tank is filled with water all the way and is perfectly clear. filter has been running for a while and i tested the water: kh was 3, ph was 6.4.
that gives me my desired CO2 ppm, which isnt suprising since the CO2 was on the ph controller. 
here are pics of the tank and probes, and im off to plant.


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## Characins (Feb 4, 2008)

Nice piece of driftwood you got there.

I can't wait to see it with plants!


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## cah925 (May 18, 2007)

I really like that driftwood too. looking forward to seeing plant pics.


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## chonhzilla (Apr 22, 2008)

How do you like using that CO2 reactor?


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

thanks guys. it was a great find at my LFS. its a very small place nearby with nothing at all, but occasionally have good wood.

CO2 reactor works great IMO. i dont have to wory about my flow to distribute the mist, because the CO2 is weakly bound with the water. and i dont have to put a diffuser in the tank.


well, i planted. the tank is a soupy color, but it should go away. planting crypts is hell. 
i had a bunch of extra crypts, lilleaopsis, and ferns, so pm or look in the swap and shop if you are interested. the ferns and lilleaopsis were bleached, but i wont ship anything until wednesday, and adverse affects should be visible before then.

here are some pics:

FTS









downoi









lilleaopsis









nesea









r. rotundifolia









crypts









ferns


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

looking good! I agree with everyone else as well, that is a _great_ piece of wood! It has tons of character, nice find! 

Looks good with the plants in there too, I can't wait to see a FTS when the water clears!


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

thanks. oh and btw, my stargrass came (big thanks to dewalltheway). i gave it a good spot under the lighting temporarily to get it growing and help give it a little head start.

my kh is falling. i dont know what is doing it. it was 3, now its 2. and it is bringing my ph down with it (5.8). it was happening like this in my old tank too, and i have no clue what is doing it.
it cant be bacteria, or decay, not this fast. the colonies cant build up from a washed filter and new unused substrate in under 24 hours. 
its not my tap, because i left my ph controller in a cup overnight, and its ph and kh did not fall. 
i will use baking soda, but i really want to get my tank to stabilize rather then keeping it up on life support.


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## confuted (Jan 31, 2007)

@[email protected] said:


> my kh is falling. i dont know what is doing it. it was 3, now its 2. and it is bringing my ph down with it (5.8).


It's your aquasoil this time.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

oh, thank god.
now, how difficult will it be to maintain a good kh (3-4) with aquasoil?
what do you reccomend i do?

i just used baking soda, but if im assuming the kh boost from that will be gone in a day or so.


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## alexk3954 (Nov 9, 2005)

I think that AS only has that kH dropping quality for the first fwe weeks and then it stabilizes at a nice spot.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

if the pH / KH continue to fall and/or stabilize lower than you'd like, you can always throw a little bit of crushed coral in the filter (don't put it in the substrate in case you need to remove it). I have really soft water and my pH kept dropping really low, I threw a little but of crushed coral in the filter and my pH and KH have stabilized very nicely. 

I've never used AS so I don't know where the levels stabilize at though.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

apparently, it stops lowering the kh and ph when its done cycling. until then all i need to do is keep the NH4 from going above 2ppm, and ph below 6. NH4 was 1, but i already put in baking soda 2 times and the ph dropped to 6 again, so im doing a 100% WC to get it to stay ok for the night (tap is 7.6, and after i add baking soda it goes only to 6.2). 
the good thing about this is that it gives the plants a quick start. the constant WC and leaching of organics gives them all the nutrients they need, and the low kH makes the CO2 dissolve easy, so my levels are a bit higher then normal.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

cycling has started for real.
yesterday i had 1ppm ammonia.
i did a waterchange before going to bed, and now it is again 1ppm
but, my nitrites are already inbetween 0 and .25 ppm. its hardly anything, but its still very fast considering that its only been 24 hours since the tank was filled.

im looking into fish choices, and how do you guys think a small group (say 5) of dwarf neon rainbows would do?


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

ok, i got my plant order from aquariumplants.com and the tank is now planted pretty much like i planned on.
the r. macrandra came in worse shape then i had hoped, and the d. diandra wasnt too great either. but i got a load of healthy hornwort (too much actually), and good glosso, and healthy r. wallichi (uncolored, but healthy).
i also added a tiny bit of wood next to the micro sword.
here are the pics (btw, i didnt resize them this time, they are a bit big):


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

i like how its coming together roud: cant wait to see the progress


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

thanks. 
it will look much better when i have the riccia in there, and an erio to fill that empty spot to the left. and the plants grow in. the d. diandra is a mess right now. i just planted it in a way i think it will grow fastest. later when its taller ill rip it up and plant it in a circle so i can start to shape it like a bush. same with the r. macrandra.


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

How do you like the Eheim Ecco?


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## Characins (Feb 4, 2008)

Looking good Marko!

It's going to look fantastic when the foreground fills in! I can't wait!


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

i love eccos. i had it on the previous scape. and i have one on my reef (with carbon instead of bioballs). and one more in the closet that i pretty much use for spare parts. it was initially on my 10 gallon, but then i took that down, and it just sat in the closet so i use it for part when i occasionally need to.
eccos arent as good as classics media-wise (if i remember right), but their priming mechanism is better.

thanks. 
ill post updates on wednesday.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

ok updates.
got some riccia. i got a ton, actually (and it looks great), if anybody needs some, look me up by saturday.
R. wallichi is growing. nesea is growing. r. rotundifolia is growing. glosso is growing. 
crypts are melting. R. macrandra is doing nothing, hopefully it will start to grow soon.
i also have algae. thread algae and some brownish kind of thread algae. i have some pics, if anyone can tell me what they are, id be grateful.

pics (algae and plants):


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

i think your brownish thread algae is diatoms. that goes away with some fat otos. 

looks good so far


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## mizu-chan (May 13, 2008)

Wow, looks great. I can't wait for it all to grow out.


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

Is it pressurized or DIY CO2?

Tank's looking great!


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

co2 is pressurized. its controlled with a ph controller, but i may switch to a timer if the kh keeps dropping so much, because it doesnt go bellow 5, and at 5.5 my drop checker was blue. 

yeah, im planning on adding a few amanos and a school of otos in there this weekend.
my ammonia and nitrites are both 0 already. 
the ph is pretty low however, down to 5.5 at night. my dad doesnt think they will make it, but from what i read, so long as the ph is relatively stable, the otos will be fine. idk about the shrimp. any ideas?


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

algae is growing. a lot. i need help.
tomorrow im going to go get some cleanup guys. amanos, and otos. maybe a SAE instead of the otos (they uproot a bit, so i was hoping to wait a bit before adding one).

here are some pics on algae. any info on it would be great.

























and on a better note:


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

All the algae I can see is hair algae and diatoms...get some Amano Shrimp (hair), Excel (hair), Otos (diatoms), and Nerite Snails (diatoms).


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

id preffer to get a small SAE with some amanos, since they can do wonders for hair algae, and will eat all other true algae. otos are an option. and i will almost certainly get amanos.
im not sure about nerites. arent they tidal? i dont want an animal that must be thrown back into the tank each day.

also, any ideas on the root cause of the algae problem?


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

@[email protected] said:


> id preffer to get a small SAE with some amanos, since they can do wonders for hair algae, and will eat all other true algae. otos are an option. and i will almost certainly get amanos.
> im not sure about nerites. arent they tidal? i dont want an animal that must be thrown back into the tank each day.
> 
> also, any ideas on the root cause of the algae problem?


Oh yeah I forgot about SAE's:icon_roll

Sometimes Nerites escape from the tank, but only if there's no cover and/or if there's no more algae for them to eat. PM Arakkis for more info about these little guys.

From what I've read, diatoms are caused by the sillicates in the glass in new tanks and/or lack of light. And thread/hair algae is caused by low CO2 and low nutrient levels:icon_conf This and this are great articles on algae


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

diatoms: nope, no silicates from new glass. the tank itself is years old. and my light is NOT low. i have over 3 wpg PC light.

thread/hair: might be nutrients. my drop checker is green, so my CO2 is fine; but im yet to start the EI auto-dosing. i will do so this weekend.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Diatoms are really common in recently set up tanks, they'll eventually go away on their own, but Otos go after them voraciously, I'm not sure about SAEs and Amanos but i'd guess they'd eat them too, again though, not sure. 

Not sure on the thread algae, but if you do a search on this forum i'm sure you'll get lots of helpful bits of advice!


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

ok, i spent over an hour, and manually removed all but the tiniest of peices. 

im not sure its diatoms. diatoms are a deeper brown, i think. i have them in another tank (lol).
besides, the tank itself isnt new, just the setup. so its not the glass leaching silicates.

anyway, i got 4 amanos and 2 small SAE. i figured, **** otos, im getting the heavy artillery. 
amanos will eat whatever is growing on my gravel, and later any uneaten fish food, to keep the decaying matter low and the tank overall cleaner. the SAE will eat hair/thread algae, GDA, BBA, diatoms, and beard algae. the only things they wont eat are GSA, and cyanobacteria, but i dont have either (yet). 
ill have pics of the fish and clean tank up after the fish are done acclimating (tap around here has ph around 7.6, my tank is 5.6; so im taking my time with the drip-line).


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

How the heck would an SAE eat diatoms?? They're like pressed to the glass...


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

same as they eat GDA. 

have you ever kept a SAE and watched it eat?
they dont have a suckermouth, but their mouth is still flat, and on the underside of their head. they have something similar to a radula (a snails "tounge" that scrapes food into their mouth) which they use to eat algae, though im not sure if its one of their lips, or their tounge they do it with.


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

Oh I just realized your avatar was a lizard:hihi: I thought it was some fish I've never seen

No apparently I've never seen a SAE eat:icon_roll

So they have a radula (for GDA and diatoms) _and_ a regular mouth (for BBA, thread, etc.)?


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

really!?
lol. thats my P. l. laticauda.

no. they have a mouth. its just on the underside of their head. and in it they have some kind of structure they can scrape with (probably on their tounge, but i cant tell). like how a snail opens its mouth, and then stick out their radula and scrape the glass with it. SAE can do something similar. 
but i do have snails. i saw 3 yesterday. now i see them everywhere. the little gray kinds, and the little bronze kinds.


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

Dang I wish there was a dwarf SAE to go in my 10 gallon

Or I could stunt one:icon_twis

jk. Looking forward to tank pics!


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

why wish for a dwarf SAE that fits in your 10 gallon?
wish for a 20 gallon to fit around your normal SAE.

they eat best when they are small, so if you had a terrible algae problem, you may consider getting a tiny one, and giving it away or trading it back after 6 monthes, if it werent for the fact that they are impossible to catch. they are beyond fast, and they are pretty smart too, they wont fall for you herding them with 2 nets.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

ok, fish and shrimp are in.
SAE are racing around sampling the local algae. really hard to get a pic of.
the shrimp are all hiding, except one, eating algae off the wood. if they do well, i will consider trying to set up a colony of RCS.
as for the plants, they are growing. glosso is filling in incredibly fast. R. macrandra is recovering well. the growth is brown, but i think that it will become red when it gets more iron and i up the light.

here are pics:


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## mizu-chan (May 13, 2008)

Looks great. I really love that piece of driftwood you have in there.
Can't wait to see that glosso carpet fill in.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

thanks. 
yeah, its growing in fast, id say in 2 weeks it will definately be a thick carpet.

im setting up the auto-dosing right now. i just tried running one minute and got 7.5 ml. that means i need 315 ml of dry N in the whole 1 gal bucket.
too concentrated IMO, im trying 2 min.


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## Chrisinator (Jun 5, 2008)

Sweet first inhabitants! I really like your Amano Shrimp and your plants!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Looking good! I hope you beat the algae, I'm sure you will! It doesn't look like it's too bad though. 

And, like ZTM, for the longest time I thought your avatar was a really cool fish too, then i looked at it closely one day and realized it's one of the most gorgeous lizards i've ever seen! You really own him?! That's awesome, he is stunning! I've never seen one like that. 

But I digress, the new fauna in your tank is great, good first choices!


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

chris:
thanks. i like my amanos and plants too. lol
im a bit worried about the amanos. the plantex CSM+B has some Cu, is it enough to hurt my shrimp?

karackle:
thanks. well, im manually removing it daily.

yep, its a gecko. a gold dust day gecko. go to the vivarium/terrarium forum under general discussion, i have a thread there where you can see a whole bunch of pics of him, his mate, and his eggs.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

i forgot to mention that i setup the autodosing (with help from my dad). it will dose macros on monday, thursday, and saturday. micros are on sunday, tuesday, and friday. 

macros:
KNO3: .625 ml
KH2PO4: .15 ml
KSO: .7ml
(the doses are listed in their dry amounts, these are mixed together with water to amount to a total of 27ml per dose)

micros:
Plantex CSM+B: .15 ml
+ small additional amount of flourish iron (since i read the red plants do much better with additional iron to the dose of this product). i put in only about 20ml in the whole gallon bottle, and i may dose more manually once a week if i need to after the algae is gone.
(listed as dry measurement. its mixed in with water to be a total of 23 ml into the tank per dose).


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

the EI and clean-up crew is a success!
not only did the algae not expand, it went away! completely!
i looked today and could not find a single scrap of algae in the whole tank!
:biggrin:

and the plants are growing. glosso is growing fast as hell. it will be just about full in a week or so. my microsword is send up a few leaves. my nesea is growing well, better then i thought it would. all the rotalas are growing good too. a little plantlet i got in my riccia and planted is also growing. it looks like a hygro to me. ill get pics in a week when its bigger. the downoi is growing side-shoots too. and my java fern trident is uncurling some its newer leaves.

here are pics:


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

tank started to pearl up really well, so i had to take some more pics. i also caught a good one of a SAE, and an amazing one of an amano. i also saw a weird slug-like thing. if anyone can tell me what it is, id be grateful.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

The taqk looks good. Is that java fern trident? The "slug" looks like a baby pond snail


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

thanks. 

yep thats a trident. i love it. it looks so awesome.

are pond snails REALLY slow? like way slower then the small gray snails?
cause this thing is incredibly slow. 
and should i take it out? im leaving the little snails i had before in because they preffer to eat algae over plants, but idk about this thing.


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## fastfreddie (Sep 10, 2008)

Oh man this is sweet:









Is that hornwort in the right rear of the tank?


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

thanks. yeah, the moment i saw the bubble, i called my dad to see and then took a pic. 
10 min later the bubble wasnt there anymore.

yeah. its a good nutrient sponge, since it grows fast as hell. i always reccomend it to everyone with algae, and i always have a bit in every tank. as the mass of other plants increases, ill cut the hornwort to be shorter and shorter. and if my salvinia minima does well, i may keep that instead of the hornwort, since it should, theoratically, grow even faster.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

here are some update pics. 
nothing to really say about the tank except that the plants are growing. a lot of the short stems of R. macrandra died, but the taller ones are growing, and some are forming new branches. its still not as red as id like. idk if i should dose more Fe or what.


































































oh and can somebody id the hygro for me? it came in the riccia the size of my fingernail. i think its big enough now to id.
and id also appreciate plant suggestions for what to put next to the R. wallichi, to the right. i initially thought R. vietnam, but its too similar to the wallichi.


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

That Hygro would be Sunset Hygro


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

@[email protected] said:


> here are some update pics.
> nothing to really say about the tank except that the plants are growing. a lot of the short stems of R. macrandra died, but the taller ones are growing, and some are forming new branches. its still not as red as id like. idk if i should dose more Fe or what.


What color temp bulb are in your fixture (and what brand is that light? I can't tell from pics...) Anyhow, your pics seem to have that classic "6700 yellow" cast to them. Your red plants seem colored up enough, I'll bet with the right bulb, they'd really pop!

Looking good dude!


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

color temp? you mean the kelvins? 6500k.

really?! they look brown to me. and thats just the light?
what color bulb would you suggest? 10,000k?

the fixture is JBJ. idk the name of the exact fixture. and i dont remeber the brand of the bulb. 
if you could reccomend a bulb id really be grateful. i dont remember the pin shape for sure. i think its square, but ill check.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Oh, I would be interested in the bulb temp (kelvin rating) too, I'm trying to get my reds to pop more as well, the red crypts were super red in the store and quite bland in my tank and I'm thinking it's the bulb as well. Yes, the bulbs can do that. grrr. 

Also, what plant is this?

I really like it!


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

riccia fluitans.

in two weeks it will need a trim. idk how much i will have, but it will probably be a bunch since its a real weed. you can have it if you want, just pay shipping.


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## flanders (May 3, 2008)

Don't mean to take over the thread, but is it common to place a powerhead near the intake? I'm trying to decide the best place to increase flow around the tank....


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

@[email protected] said:


> riccia fluitans.
> 
> in two weeks it will need a trim. idk how much i will have, but it will probably be a bunch since its a real weed. you can have it if you want, just pay shipping.


It's gorgeous, funny how some of the weeds are beautiful huh?  Does it grow in low light? I can't remember if this is a low or high light/tech tank. If you think it will grow i'd love to take some of the trimmings! And happy to pay shipping!  Thanks!


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

flanders said:


> Don't mean to take over the thread, but is it common to place a powerhead near the intake? I'm trying to decide the best place to increase flow around the tank....


idk if its common, but thats where i needed flow. around the outake the flow is strong, but near the intake it was kinda low and detritus started to settle and there was more algae then elsewhere, so i add the powerhead.



Karackle said:


> It's gorgeous, funny how some of the weeds are beautiful huh?  Does it grow in low light? I can't remember if this is a low or high light/tech tank. If you think it will grow i'd love to take some of the trimmings! And happy to pay shipping!  Thanks!


did you read the title?
lol
its high light. but its actually a floating plant so if you float it, it will live in low light and no CO2. if you tie it to a flat rock, it needs high-ish tech and CO2.
if you want to put it in a tank with CO2 and about 3wpg or more, it will live and grow fast.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Did you find out if your bulb is square pin or straight? Is it one or two bulbs?


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

no. lol
i know it sounds funny, since all i have to do is get off my ass and look at it. but im not in the same house as the tank. i can only get to it once a week and every other weekend. 

i just looked up jbj lighting to try and find out, and it turns out they make fixtures in both quad and linear configurations. 
ill post tomorrow.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

@[email protected] said:


> did you read the title?


HAHAHA sorry, I am subscribed to the thread so I sort of stop looking at the titles :tongue: Good point. 

Floater huh? That could work. I'll keep an eye out for a trim sale  Thanks!


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

its straight pin. 

i must say, im suprised it would be the light color, since it actually has a really good spectrum (my dad has a spectrometer). i can take a pic of the spectrum and post in on here in the morning when the light comes on. 
but im still interested in which bulb you would recommend. i need a new bulb in 2 monthes anyway.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

here are the pics.
i also got some of the tank which as 2 new plants (erio mini and rotala mini II):


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## Characins (Feb 4, 2008)

You and you're fancy equipment!

Very nice.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

lol

thanks


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## Ebichua (May 13, 2008)

The erio looks better than I thought it would be! It looks shaded though, you may want to move it a bit to get direct light


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

yeah, i think im going to move it to the front and to the right. so its in front of the crypt.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

ok, well i thought id do an update:
the plants are all doing well. except the nesea. its not happy at all. all the new growth is deformed, idk what it is, but i dont really care, since im going to replace it with sunset hygro. im just waiting for the hygro to grow some more (shouldnt be too long), and then ill RAOK the nesea (its growing and is algae free, just deformed growth).
also, the glosso wont carpet on the sides. so what im going to do, is on the left i will grow dwarf hairgrass, and on the right ill put riccia. ill also angle the current riccia stone to make room for the erio right behind it (it wouldnt be visibe behind dwarf hairgrass, and it would get choked).
anyway here are the current pics:

































































oh, and the lileaopsis is spreading:


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## Sarge (Sep 29, 2008)

Just read your whole journal from beginning to end, very nice bro, sucks about the death of the original set up, but after every storm is a clear sky, and your new set up is beautiful bro. Good stuff. Thanks for sharing


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

wow, thanks sarge. 
:biggrin:


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

looking great! the plants are laid out nice and neat and it will look amazing all grown in.


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## EdTheEdge (Jan 25, 2007)

Wow! Great tank. Great thread! I'm subscribed!


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

thanks. 
but thats the problem: "when it grows in". its sure taking its time. r. macrandra narrow is just now starting to really grow. and while r. wallichi is grown in, im just now getting the kind of colorful growth i want, so itll be another month of removing, trimming off from the bottom, and replanting to get a colorful bush. and dont get me started on the stargrass, it grows half the way up, and the start to grow sideways over the r. macrandra! WTH! grow UP! it would get more light, and so would the r. macrandra, but no, that would be too simple. 
lol
sorry for that. i go off like that sometimes.


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

I just went through this whole journal, your tank is STUNNING!!! I love it!


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

wow, thanks.
im glad you like it :biggrin:

ill have an update soon.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

ok, the tank is not doing as well as id hoped, but i think i will be able to get it back on track.

there was some kind of deficiency, that was obvious from the nesea. but, now other plants started getting affected. i increased dosing, no effect. my r. rotundifolia started to look bad, my hygro started growing weird. many plants were showing minor signs. algae is starting to pop up. i had no clue what it was, so i googled aquarium plant deficiencies. i found a chart where it showed what nutrient was deficient, what the symptoms were, and where the symptoms were shown (new growth or old growth). i have too little calcium. my new leaves are growing deformed, and some are blochy. and it makes sense. i used to dose flourish. now i dose plantex CSM+B. flourish has Ca, plantex does not. my tap has some, but obviously not enough.
anyway. after urging from my dad, i decided to put 1 ml of his Ca meant for reefs. the fish/shrimp did not mind. the plants probably wont respond negatively for 24 hours, and wont respond positively unless is dose for at least a week. 
before, i planned on adding crushed coral into my filter for a tiny boost in kh. now will definately add it to add calcium (it should work on the same principle it does in a calcium reactor in reef tanks). i dont know if the few peices i will add will be enough though. 
does anybody know what ppm calcium should be in a planted tank?
or maybe a better way to add it?

on a better note, i added fish. blue diamond neon tetras. they are neon tetras with blue heads, and silver bodies. they were bred selectively for that. they remind me a bit of rummies. 

here are pics:


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## pthalobluebetta (Jul 24, 2008)

wow, tank looks nice!

could you possibly post the link to the chart listing deficiencies and symptoms? I've been looking for something like that! 

I have the same problems with my nessea, its new growth is in the form of crumpled leaves


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## flanders (May 3, 2008)

How's your hardness? Do you add a GH booster?


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

pthalobluebetta said:


> wow, tank looks nice!
> 
> could you possibly post the link to the chart listing deficiencies and symptoms? I've been looking for something like that!
> 
> I have the same problems with my nessea, its new growth is in the form of crumpled leaves


thanks. 
here:
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_nutrient.htm
just scroll down a bit on that page and youll see it. 



flanders said:


> How's your hardness? Do you add a GH booster?


i dont add a gH booster. 
which hardness? to my knowledge ph, kh and gh all reffer to hardness. 
gh-13
kh-1 (or possibly less)
ph- 5.5-5.4 during the day, 5.8 at night.


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## flanders (May 3, 2008)

@[email protected] said:


> thanks.
> here:
> http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_nutrient.htm
> just scroll down a bit on that page and youll see it.
> ...


Well they definitely all interact, but "general" hardness refers to ions in the water, specifically Mg2+ and Ca2+ (the ones easily measurable at least), and has a negligible influence on pH (at least in the ranges we're dealing with). 

KH is "carbonate" hardness and measures the amount of bicarbonate and carbonate in your water. KH and pH are intimately related. I won't go into the details here....

With a GH of 13 in your tank, Ca2+ is probably not an issue, but your KH is low, which will naturally fall (along with GH), as your tank matures.

Your water is relatively "hard" (GH), but carbonate hardness (or alkalinity) is low (KH). You definitely don't need GH booster. Your KH may be low, but I run a low KH in my setups, with considerable pH swings between night and day, and haven't ever had any issues. You could add some baking soda to increase the KH and pH, while increasing your water's buffering capacity.

In fact, you may need to reduce your GH, e.g. by mixing tap with RO. I've never grown weeds in "hard" water so this advice may be complete BS. Something to think about though...


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

flanders said:


> Well they definitely all interact, but "general" hardness refers to ions in the water, specifically Mg2+ and Ca2+ (the ones easily measurable at least), and has a negligible influence on pH (at least in the ranges we're dealing with).
> 
> KH is "carbonate" hardness and measures the amount of bicarbonate and carbonate in your water. KH and pH are intimately related. I won't go into the details here....
> 
> ...


i know what they are. and i have some understanding of their relationships.

i dont think my high gh is the problem. i had the nesea for years, and the setup was always with a high gh. the lowest i have recorded was 10, but the plant was really thriving a few monthes ago, and the gh was also 13. the rotala rotundifolia too.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

this sucks.
my autodosing was turned on by noise on the lines or something (its controlled with X10).
my entire gallon of macros, and half a gallon of the micros, was dumped into the tank.
i heard a noise. it was the aqualifter of the macros sucking up air.
i have 140 doses in my tank, and i only dose every other day (alternating between macros and micros).

ATM, i have my python in the tank and i will suck out as much water as will go out without the filter sucking in air. then i will refill the tank (really REALLY slowly). then repeat.
and then i have to remake a macros solution.

here is the extent of the damage:
NO3- 40-80ppm (hard to tell the difference in red shades)
PO4- 5ppm

so far my fish seem fine, and my shrimp are not visible as usual, so i have no idea how they are taking to it.


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## imeridian (Jan 19, 2007)

Ack! The perils of autodosing systems are plenty aren't they? 

Naja posted a good link to fully reset a tank in my journal, I did it just the other night. The general idea is to drain to 20% full, refill to 40%, drain again to 20%, refill to 40%, drain to 20% again, and then finally refill back to 100%. You'd want to then dose your ferts back. Naja suggested the full week's worth, so that's what I did.


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

Sorry to hear that

Do you _have_ to autodose? It doesn't take that much energy to dose yourself:hihi:

And btw the Glosso looks awesome!:icon_eek:


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

imeridian said:


> Ack! The perils of autodosing systems are plenty aren't they?
> 
> Naja posted a good link to fully reset a tank in my journal, I did it just the other night. The general idea is to drain to 20% full, refill to 40%, drain again to 20%, refill to 40%, drain to 20% again, and then finally refill back to 100%. You'd want to then dose your ferts back. Naja suggested the full week's worth, so that's what I did.


first time anything happened to me.

i dont think i need to do something that extraordinary.
an 80% WC and then refill and another 50% WC and refill would bring my NO3 under 20 ppm, which is ok for the night. and since all my fertz are in proportion, they will all be brought to an acceptable level for the night.



ZooTycoonMaster said:


> Sorry to hear that
> 
> Do you _have_ to autodose? It doesn't take that much energy to dose yourself:hihi:
> 
> And btw the Glosso looks awesome!:icon_eek:


yeah i do. i normally only see the tank once a week, so autodosing is pretty much the only option.

thanks. its starting to grow up though. i need to redo it sometime soon. but now ill have much more to start with. 
i actually have a plan to redo it in a way other then ripping it all up, and i think it will let it refill faster.


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## Characins (Feb 4, 2008)

Ouch, thats going to cost you!


Looks like you're handling the situation perfectly though.
Good luck!


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

actually the fish/shrimp pulled through just fine. 
actually they are more stressed now then last night. now im trying to get my CO2 on a timer, but i didnt shut it off soon enough, so my SAE are gasping at the surface (its already going down though, so they will be just fine).

btw, can anyone recomend how many bubble i should have per second or per minute?


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## flanders (May 3, 2008)

I do a little over 1bps for my 55, and the drop checker is always a light yellow/green during the day. I don't have a timer on my CO2, not sure why just haven't, but I do run an airstone in the evening. Comes on about 1hr after lights off, and turns off about 2hr before lights on. 

Do you add O2 to the tank? I don't have any real data, but I think adding O2 helps my tank quite a bit.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

i dont judge my CO2 by bpm or bps i just look at the drop checker, i tweaked the needle valve until it stayed light green the whole day.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

flanders said:


> I do a little over 1bps for my 55, and the drop checker is always a light yellow/green during the day. I don't have a timer on my CO2, not sure why just haven't, but I do run an airstone in the evening. Comes on about 1hr after lights off, and turns off about 2hr before lights on.
> 
> Do you add O2 to the tank? I don't have any real data, but I think adding O2 helps my tank quite a bit.


ok, well i did more then that for sure. my CO2 goes down nicely at night, so i need to get it up in the morning. which means i need a good bps/bpm or it will take too long. 
add O2? you mean aeriate? i have some surface agitation going all the time. i think my surface skimmer helps too.



chris127 said:


> i dont judge my CO2 by bpm or bps i just look at the drop checker, i tweaked the needle valve until it stayed light green the whole day.


i cant really do that. i have fish in there, and i need to get my CO2 stable at an acceptable level.






the plan:
tomorrow i will set the CO2 to 1.5-2 bps. then i will turn it on a half hour before lights on, and hopefully it will reach around 30 ppm by then. if it does reach that level, within an hour of lights coming on, i will let it go up a little bit higher, and then shut it off. when it goes down to 25 ppm or so, ill turn it back on; turn it off above 30, and so on. at the end of the photoperiod, i will have a log of what times to set.


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## flanders (May 3, 2008)

@[email protected] said:


> ok, well i did more then that for sure. my CO2 goes down nicely at night, so i need to get it up in the morning. which means i need a good bps/bpm or it will take too long.
> add O2? you mean aeriate? i have some surface agitation going all the time. i think my surface skimmer helps too.


Surface skimmer on a freshwater tank? 

I'd avoid too much surface agitation during the day--hard to keep stable CO2 levels.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

yeah its the ehiem surface skimmer. its not a full backboard, but an attachment to the intake. 
my surface isnt too aggitated, but i have som ripples constantly. my CO2 is relatively stable. im setting it today and so far its very constant (ph changes only 0.1, and my tank has a low kh) with 15 min on, 15 min off.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

hey guys, guess what.
my erio is flowering!


























i wonder if its related to the autodosing thing?


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

ok, well the tank really needed a trim today. the surface was totally covered in plants. but the tank is doing somewhat well. there is a bunch of hair algae on the r. wallichi and r. macrandra. however, the r. rotundifolia is fighting back against the Ca defficiency im getting out of, and grew a lot. the lilleaopsis is doing really well, and the eleocharis belem is sending runners. the stargrass, when it canopied, grew 3 flowers. the erio wasnt split well, one of the two got very little of the crown, and is dying, but my other one is growing more flowers, and is making a new crown (you can see one tiny new leaf). here are the pics:


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

Oooh so much CO2

Remind me again, how do you diffuse your CO2? I'm too lazy to look lol


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## EdTheEdge (Jan 25, 2007)

Everytime I look through this thread I am increasingly impressed with what I see!!!!! Thanks for sharing this wonderful world!


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## imeridian (Jan 19, 2007)

Welcome to the flowering stargrass club.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

ZooTycoonMaster said:


> Oooh so much CO2
> 
> Remind me again, how do you diffuse your CO2? I'm too lazy to look lol


well i just did a WC, and my python puts out microbubbles, so i dont have THAT much CO2. but since i switch to the timer i do have more and the plants all seem to like it more.

i use an inline reactor.



EdTheEdge said:


> Everytime I look through this thread I am increasingly impressed with what I see!!!!! Thanks for sharing this wonderful world!


wow, thanks. that a really nice compliment. :biggrin:



imeridian said:


> Welcome to the flowering stargrass club.


lol, yeah. 
i was really suprised actually. but i guess its not that suprising, since it grows like a weed, and its probably one of the more common flowers.
im still happy about it though.


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

@[email protected] said:


> well i just did a WC, and my python puts out microbubbles, so i dont have THAT much CO2. but since i switch to the timer i do have more and the plants all seem to like it more.
> 
> i use an inline reactor.


Right, I knew that:redface:

Does Stargrass flower often?


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

its the first time for me. but id assume so, since i didnt have it long (few monthes), and i trim it weekly since it grows so fast.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

well, i cleaned the tank up a bit and thought id post some pics:


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

Update?


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## Characins (Feb 4, 2008)

Wow Marko, you're tank is amazing now!

Great work! Inspiring!


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

thanks characins. :biggrin:

here is a small update:
the java fern trident is making spores (i think). brownish dots on the undersides of the leaves. has anyone had then successfully reproduce from spores in a tank? i know it happens all the time in terrariums, but i never heard about it happening in an aquarium.









and here is a FTS (i just re-did the glosso):


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

Holy crap I like the riccia "stream" and the Downoi:icon_eek:


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

wow it looks great!!! i cant get my glosso to grow along the substrate :/


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

thanks, zoo. 
ive always been a fan of riccia. its a very nice plant, easy to work with, easy to shape, grows fast as hell, and pearls like mad.
the downoi is growing steady, but slower then id like. im still in the propogation stage, as opposed to shaping it.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

ok i thought its time for an update:
everything is growing good, and my belem hairgrass has fully grown in (it grows like a total weed!). the only things that im still waiting to fully grow in are downoi, rotala mini, and lileaopsis. 
i got 2 german rams a few days ago. one male and one female. the male seems to be chasing the female away though (not too aggressively, im not worried for her), but they are very young, so i think that they probably arent even mature and wont pair up for a few monthes anyway.

pics:


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## redfalconf35 (Feb 24, 2008)

I'm very jealous!


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## imeridian (Jan 19, 2007)

Wow, I really like how this tank is evolving! 

...and it looks like, in the first picture, it has enough light and gravity for a small planet to orbit it.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

redfalconf35 said:


> I'm very jealous!


thanks, lol.



imeridian said:


> Wow, I really like how this tank is evolving!
> 
> ...and it looks like, in the first picture, it has enough light and gravity for a small planet to orbit it.


thanks! 

lol, yeah the pics werent taken at the same time, some of them were during the noon burst, when the tank has 130 watts over it. the doubling of light isnt that obvious to the eye, but the plants really respond to it (when i increased the length of the noon burst by and hour, the plant growth rate almost doubled).


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

after a week, my german rams that were barely getting along, decided it was time for some action. thats right, i have a spawn. 
here is the scoop. my dad likes to buy live brine shrimp (its related, just keep reading), which he then feeds to his reef, and to my 20L. the shrimp are fed over a course of several days which they spend in the open bag, held upright inside the 20L (for heat). 
today i got an email saying that he had an accident on saturday with the shrimp (im guessing he means the bag didnt stay upright, and a hundred or so brine shrimp were released into the tank for the fish to stuff themselves silly). and that today he saw the male guarding a clutch of 30+ eggs.
i will get some pics up by wednesday.

btw, i have a few questions:
can they eat BBS from hatching?
can they eat hikari first foods from hatching?
will they try and eat any algae they find in the tank?
when do they need to be removed from their parents?


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

here are pics of the spawn (sorry for the poor quality, they were taken after lights off with flash).


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

and here are freeswimming fry:

















anyone have tips for raising them?


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

i got some new plants (C. fructa, and a rotala). i put them in a while ago, and then spiffed up the tank. here are pics.
pre-spiff:

















post-spiff:


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## malaybiswas (Nov 2, 2008)

chris127 said:


> wow it looks great!!! i cant get my glosso to grow along the substrate :/


Give them some light. Once they start some runners, clip off the vertical stems and plant the runners in the substrate. If you have good light, they will take off from there. I have so far done glosso FG twice this way and both times it has been successful. Alas, I am yet to get a magic formula for HC yet (other than emersed growth)

Marko - The tank looks great. For the frys java moss can be a good hideout.

Edit: It is normal for java fern leaves to create spores from where daughter plants spawn. Leave them that way till the baby plants are big enough and they will dislodge themselves. Then you can tie them separately.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

ok this tank has started experiencing issues (probably since i have gotten lazy and spent my time on my ADA 30C). the tank is totally overgrown, there is plenty of staghorn algae, and small tufts of BBA. 

my java fern tridents started to dissolve into brown patches (happened to me before in a few different tanks, the leaves will all die back, but then the rhizome grows new ones). since it has happened a few times, sometimes to healthy plants, and that it is contagious from fern to fern, i think it is a virus. i think that in most conditions my ferns are capable of fighting it off, but any lapse and they will start to show symptomes.

anyway, this weekend i will be cleaning it up. big time. i will take EVERY plant out and trim it, remove algea infested foilage, and replant it. i may also do some minor rescaping.


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

@[email protected] said:


> anyway, this weekend i will be cleaning it up. big time. i will take EVERY plant out and trim it, remove algea infested foilage, and replant it. i may also do some minor rescaping.


I don't see how you guys have time for this

Good luck with it


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

You would have more time if you gave facebook a rest.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

ZooTycoonMaster said:


> I don't see how you guys have time for this
> 
> Good luck with it



it took me hours and hours and hours, but i did it. the most of the plant mass is out, the plants arent in nice bushes anymore, and after a day of work the tank looks like sh*t. but hopefully this way it will grow back into the nice tank it used to be. 
i also added some driftwood, and changed the forground a tiny bit. ill post pics tomorrow.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

here is what the tank looks like after a vacation:


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Well the riccia looks good lol


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

You seem to go on alot of vacations


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

yeah riccia did grow a lot. and most plants survived. the only one i lost was d. diandra.


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