# Gabriel's 10g Self-Sustaining Planted Tank!



## MistyRiver (Oct 7, 2008)

Hello, my name is Gabriel. I've been in the aquarium hobby for several years, dropped out early last year and then started back up at the beginning of July. This tank was a free of design style tank. I didn't have any real plans, I just wanted to make a planted tank and let life throw at me what to use.
I found a tank on craigslist that had a dual incandescent hood, and bought it for dirt cheap so I could have the hood and sell the rest for more then what I bought it for. 
I bought two 15 Watt CFL's from walmart for six bucks and made them fit (rather tight in there). Ordered plants from a very great seller Digsy, and they have since grown greatly and they were pearling for two weeks straight almost. No co2 injection or ferts. Tap water with conditioner, and an aquaclear 50 filter with just a sponge in it.
This tank to my surprise has been self sustaining and I've not done a water change since the arrival of fish.
The fish contain:
3- Spotted Cories
3- Otos
3- male Guppies (by accident)
1- ultra pregnant female Guppy.

Enough talking, onto the pics!!!

First day of plants:









Current picture (as of 7/30/09):









The adult Golden Delta Guppy and Preggers female:









You can view my Picasa profile with all my pics here.

Thanks for reading, and happy fishes!
~Gabriel


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## MistyRiver (Oct 7, 2008)

Pictures do not seem to be working... Will try again tomorrow to correct it. For now, you can use the link.
Thank you!


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## sean117Ply (Jun 28, 2009)

How long have the fish been in? And what are the nitrate levels?


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

are you using the right tag for your image links? if you hit the little yellow icon above the message edit box you you will get a small pop-up that will put your image link in between "







". it is not the standard html "img src" tag in case that is what you tried.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Here it is::wink:










Very pretty.


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

Well, the floating water lettuce (I _think_ that's what it is...) should suck up most of the nitrates...

But still, a water change every now and then shouldn't hurt


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## Kolkri (Dec 9, 2006)

I love that water lettuce. Now I need some for my tanks. lol 
I love the "natural" un planed look.


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## MistyRiver (Oct 7, 2008)

Hey, thanks for the replies! 
I got the fish on July 17. I almost think I did do a water change about two days after that, but I'm not sure... Its been a busy month.
Regarding the water parameters, I have no idea! I don't have a test kit, and its not in the budget. On top of that, I'm pretty sure the people at petsmart (where I got my fish) pretty much hate me... So I don't think they'll be too happy about me going in there and asking for them to test it. Though, I don't think its too bad as the Otos seem really happy. I'm pretty sure they are sensitive, but correct me if I'm wrong.
I did notice however, that inside the filter there is stringy green/brown algae attached to the sponge and the outflow. Which, if I remember correctly is actually bacteria that feeds off cold water, nitrite, and photosynthesis. Though I might be mixing that up with something else, its been almost a year since I've studied biology. 

I was using the boards image code as suggested, but it did not work... Maybe a mod could fix it?
I know how to work both HTML and the board language, but I've never had this happen. The code is correct, but I think maybe its the servers fault? :icon_roll

I want to sell some of the water lettuce (yes that is what I was told it is), I'll send you a PM.

~Gabe


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## skinz180189 (Jun 26, 2009)

Gosh that's a lot of surface cover. Has it started blocking light to the other plants yet?


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## MistyRiver (Oct 7, 2008)

skinz180189 said:


> Gosh that's a lot of surface cover. Has it started blocking light to the other plants yet?


Yes it is, and yes it has! Hahaha.
Its both a good and bad thing... The fish Love it (especially the Cory's), one of the plants have since grown extremely fast (not sure what its called), but it slows down the Ludwigia repens. 
Overall though, its great...
The only problem is that its reproducing so fast that I can't feed my fish easily. Its takes a bit of work to get them to separate just an inch for anything longer then a second! I've got it down now to the point where I can just push them aside with a finger or something, and then feed them well I'm holding it place.

Thank you sewingalot for the picture, by the way! I appreciate it!
~Gabe


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## skinz180189 (Jun 26, 2009)

Lol sounds pretty mad! I'd just grab a big handful and rip it out every so often if it was me.


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## MistyRiver (Oct 7, 2008)

skinz180189 said:


> Lol sounds pretty mad! I'd just grab a big handful and rip it out every so often if it was me.


Haha, yeah. I'm probably giving a hand full to Kolkri. 
The stuff grows so rapidly that I think it will become an often RAOK'ed plant from me. Or even sell them local to a club here in my area.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

I put the pictures up for you. That was a tough one to figure out. Here was the workaround: right click on the picture you want and choose properties. Select and copy the location of the image. Copy this in between http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/tank-journals-photo-album/...

Hope that helps. Very nice tank. I like the water lettuce a whole lot.


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## MistyRiver (Oct 7, 2008)

sewingalot said:


> I put the pictures up for you. That was a tough one to figure out. Here was the workaround: right click on the picture you want and choose properties. Select and copy the location of the image. Copy this in between http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/tank-journals-photo-album/...
> 
> Hope that helps. Very nice tank. I like the water lettuce a whole lot.


Thats great! Thanks a lot! I'll remember that for future reference. 

Thanks for the compliments. 
I like the water lettuce also. It seems to be a pretty big hit...
~Gabe


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## Digsy (Mar 4, 2006)

See, the water lettuce is actually a curse! I laughed when I saw how much it had multiplied from the time you put it in.  I'm glad to see everything is doing so well! I'm looking forward to your updates!


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## MistyRiver (Oct 7, 2008)

Digsy said:


> See, the water lettuce is actually a curse! I laughed when I saw how much it had multiplied from the time you put it in.  I'm glad to see everything is doing so well! I'm looking forward to your updates!


Haha, well thanks for warning me of this curse ahead of time!
I don't really mind it though, I like watching how fast it takes over. Plus, it makes me feel like I'm actually doing something right for the first time in the hobby. Lol!
I always kept my tanks too clean for plants to grow so they would always die. It feels so strange now to do the opposite. :confused1: Come to think of it, I could not even keep duckweed in my tank! How is that possible??? That stuff is even worse these water lettuce in terms of spreading...

~Gabe


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## Kolkri (Dec 9, 2006)

I have goldfish. They well love the extra water lettuce.


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## Northern_Wind (Nov 1, 2008)

Lovely tank! i love all that water lettuce! I have lots of frogbit in my tank, it takes over the top of it in days!  
I bet the fish are happy with the diffused light.


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## MistyRiver (Oct 7, 2008)

I Love gold fish. Its kind of strange sounding until you have a few together (in my opinion)... Their actually really smart fish, and I find them to be more entertaining then a lot of fish due to their common social aspect.



Northern_Wind said:


> Lovely tank! i love all that water lettuce! I have lots of frogbit in my tank, it takes over the top of it in days!
> I bet the fish are happy with the diffused light.


Thank you! The fish love it, especially the Cory's! I find them all the time swimming up in the roots, its the funniest thing... Its fun stuff to clear out all the time, huh? If you don't already, you should consider putting them up on the forum here. You might even make a few bucks...

And for those of you worried, I did a water change today! 
One of the guppies looked a little white and I was worried that he was sick (thus I knew I needed to do a water change right then)... It just kept sitting around near the ground and was being more of an outcast then usual. So I did a warmer water change, and added a touch of salt just to help if it was white spot/fungus.
This evening though, he seemed to be doing better and I finally got a closer look. It seems as though he just got injured. Most likely from sticking his head in the rocks! :icon_roll

~Gabe


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

MistyRiver said:


> Regarding the water parameters, I have no idea! I don't have a test kit. On top of that, I'm pretty sure the people at petsmart (where I got my fish) pretty much hate me... So I don't think they'll be too happy about me going in there and asking for them to test it.


So there is only 1 pet store near you? Can you not have your water tested at another pet store?


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## MistyRiver (Oct 7, 2008)

Hilde said:


> So there is only 1 pet store near you? Can you not have your water tested at another pet store?


The only other one close by is petco. And they suck... They closed down most of their fish stuff (due to the petsmart opining up a few blocks down the road), and what little they still have is neglected big time. No food, no light, no cleaning... About half the fish they have in there are dead, and if their not... Hah, their about to be. That place makes me angry... :angryfire
Other then that, there are a few legit fish stores in Portland, OR, but thats a minimum of 15 miles -- not to mention the half hour of traffic sitting in this heat we've been having.

The way I look at test kits is that it does not do you a lot of good to just have one... Because what if you buy that one (like the nitrate), and then you find it its fine. But something is still strange in your tank... Now you have to go out and buy your PH, amonnia, etc... Until you finally figure out whats wrong. By the time you buy all that, there goes a bit of money.
I've never owned a test kit (that worked), and I've always had thriving fish. Of course eveyone gets a fungus every now and then, but thats what happens when your in the hobby for a long time. 
I've never had an algae bloom though, which I find strange...


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## MistyRiver (Oct 7, 2008)

Just a little update here...
At the beginning of the week I lost that little guppie that was "sick." It appeared to be a swim bladder issue, as he stayed on the ground breathing heavy, and every time he tried to swim he would roll around like crazy. 
This morning after I turned on the lights I was little suspicious something was up... I could not find one of the ottos, so I figured he was just hiding due to the light being turned on. A couple hours later I came back looked for him and still could not find it for awhile until I noticed he was laying on the rocks underneath a plant. Put my hand in there to see if he was alive and he was not...  Took care of him and took a closer look at the rest of the tank...
I don't seem to have really any algae on the walls, but I have TONS in the filter. I've never seen anything like it... Now the floaters roots are turning white, and almost all of the other plants have a couple dead leafs on them and are starting to look a little nutrient lacking possibly. 
And then of course, to make things worst -- I have snails!!! This has never happened to me.... I don't understand how a snail can just pop up in your tank when you have not done anything to it!!!

Hopefully tomorrow after work I'll be able to get my water tested like I sought out to do today but never had the chance.

_P.S. If you want pictures of anything I have them..._ Just ask and I'll upload 'em.


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## Kolkri (Dec 9, 2006)

The test kits are worth every penny. You can get a pretty complete one for around 30 bucks.

You may find that you did to large a water change. 

When a tank has been set up a while and gone some time without a water change is it best to do small amounts. Like in your 10 gallon I would of done a gallon every day or less. This reduces the stress to the fish. And I would of tested every day.


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## MistyRiver (Oct 7, 2008)

I believe that test kits are worth every penny, and I know that I should always use them... But here is the problem; I'm *poor*.
Thankfully though, I just had my first day at work and I should have a couple more this week, so once my paycheck comes around I'll buy a test kit.

With any luck I'll be able to get up to petsmart today and see if they'll test it for me...

I'll take note of that... Thanks for the suggestion about the water changes. I forgot about that.


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## MistyRiver (Oct 7, 2008)

I went to petsmart today, and they were really friendly (surprisingly)! I got my water tested and they wrote everything down on this really organized document and gave it to me. I was pleased to see that everything was perfect (for our water).
0 for nitrite, nitrate, and ammonia.
pH 7.2
Alkalinity is 180 mg/L
Hardness is 300 mg/L (normal for our tap)
and Chlorine and Chloramine is 0.0.

So the deaths are still a mystery... I looked at the API Master Test Kit and it was only 30 bucks plus tax. So thats cheaper then I expected. As I stated in my last post, I'll buy it once my paycheck comes in.
I'm thinking I might need to start dosing with firts or co2... I've read a lot of post arguing against co2 with out firts, and vice versa. But I think its worth a shot to dose with the DIY co2 since I have most of the supplies...


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## Kolkri (Dec 9, 2006)

Good luck with the co2. 

The idea of that stuff just scares me. Not just the price of getting it going but the risk to the fish too. Besides would have no clue how to set it up even after reading several DIY threads it still makes no since. lol

I use excel and trace in my low tech, low light planted tanks. The 20 has been set up a while using just that and they plants do fairly well. Only the moss seems to grow to fast the rest grow at a just right speed and no algae to speak of.

My understanding is if you do go with co2 you well need new lighting and that is not cheep either.


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## MistyRiver (Oct 7, 2008)

Kolkri said:


> Good luck with the co2.
> 
> The idea of that stuff just scares me. Not just the price of getting it going but the risk to the fish too. Besides would have no clue how to set it up even after reading several DIY threads it still makes no since. lol
> 
> ...


Its actually pretty cheap to set up a diy co2 system... Just three soda bottles, one filled with water so you can have a counter (and encase something goes wrong), and two for the yeast mixture spread out over a couple weeks so that you don't have to worry about huge spikes. 
Here is a pretty basic example. Its nothing too complicated, even though I had to read it a few times to truly understand.

As far as the lighting goes, I believe I'm really pushing it as it is without co2 injection. I'm running at three watts a gallon, and its a pretty intense spectrum too... Either way, this _is_ pretty much just an experiment tank to learn about plants with. Thus, I expect things to go wrong.
Since this is all I can have at the moment, I just want to learn all I can. In a few years I'll be able to set more complex and bigger tanks, at which point I'll use all this knowledge that I'm learning from this tank and my previous ones.

About excel and trace... How much do those usually run, and can you buy them local? My petsmart sells Seachem Flouresh. But they don't sell any other plant food in a liquid. They do have the tablets, and some kind of soil which is interesting...


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## Kolkri (Dec 9, 2006)

I get my excel and trace online. For my 10 gallon tank I add 1m to 2m of excel a day for the 10 gallon double that for my 20 gallon and trace once a week according to the bottle.

I also only have 1.5 watts of light. If I ever figure out how to add more light and not break the bank I may try that DIY from that link.


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## Kolkri (Dec 9, 2006)

Any updated pictures?


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## MistyRiver (Oct 7, 2008)

Hey, sorry for the long time without an update! I've been busy, and not really made it online much these days...
For now, this is the only picture I'll let you guys see...... 









Hm... interesting, eh?
Wait until you see what happens come Monday/Tuesday!


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## MistyRiver (Oct 7, 2008)

Well... Its a little late, but here is a crappy full tank shot.









Close up of the center piece.









Current stock list:
3 Spotted Cories
2 Ottos
5 Tiger Barbs

The Barbs are new, and I know they'll be too much for my tank eventually, but for now I like 'em. I got a good deal of five for five dollars, so I'm pretty happy with them. On top of that, their one of the most energetic fish I've seen... All three of the groups are so hyper, my tank is never boring.

I've got a pretty nice amount of green algae spotting all over the place thats starting to get annoying... But my Otto's love it, so I'll leave it for now.

The new layout is a lot more interesting I think... The fish love it! The Barbs swim around and play hide and seek all day, and the Cories think they can't be seen anymore. All in all, I like it.

I'll try and get better pics eventually, but what do y'all think?


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## Raiden (Jun 5, 2009)

Nice I have tiger barbs too, but in a 20 gallon. Keep us updated on this. I'd like to see how well your plants fare with the barbs. I tried to plant my 20 gallon fairly recently with trimmings from my 10 and the plants keep getting chewed up. =T


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## MistyRiver (Oct 7, 2008)

Cool. They seem to be really fun fish, I'm glad I got them...
So far they have not done any damage the plants. I see them picking at the algae on the walls like guppies do, but nothing else as of now.
I'll definitely try to keep this updated now that I got it pretty well set up.

Thats interesting that they ate your plants... Maybe its because they are not use to living with them so they think its food or something? I've seen that happen before. Also, it seems like having more plants makes it less likely to be noticeable that your fish are eating them since the plants grow fast most of the time.

Maybe you could try putting a couple of the barbs in the ten gallon thats planted?
I would like to know how it works out if you do.


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## Raiden (Jun 5, 2009)

I have cherry shrimp in my 10g haha I don't want them to get gobbled up. I'm just going to keep dumping my trimmings into the 20g since water sprite grows pretty fast in my 10g. Overwhelm them with water sprite till get sick of chewing it up lol

I might stop trying to plant that one all together until I save up enough money for a new tank =] 

Did you get rid of all your floaters? (duckweed right?)


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## MistyRiver (Oct 7, 2008)

Haha, good point. I don't think I would risk putting them with shrimp... o_o
I think they will eventually stop eating them like crazy if you do just keep throwing plants at them, it would work for me, so I don't see why it wouldn't work for fish! lol...

New tank? Like... a 120 maybe? 

Yes, I did get rid of all the floaters (finally)! They were actually Water Lettuce, which is a form of pond plant I believe, but their really neat. They reproduce like snails though. Actually, I think faster... Bottom line, they started suffocating my fish so I lost a four fish tanks to them, and so I sold most of them and then threw away the rest.


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## justin182 (Aug 19, 2009)

I actually like the look of your tanks with LOTS of water lettuce... haha, i guess they are not good for fish at night.


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## MistyRiver (Oct 7, 2008)

Oh yeah, the Water Lettuce was great looking! But I was too lazy to pull out chunks daily, and so it kills the fish and makes it not worth it... In a bigger tank like a fifty-five, I think Water Lettuce would be an awesome floater.


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