# xenxes's Fluval Edge 6g - "Volcanic Tree" + Blue Neos



## xenxes

*Current Status (7/20):*

[strike]Opae Ula & Nerite habitat. Gravity @ ~1.010, pH 8.2. Here's an interesting read on the habitat, but I'm tweaking it by adding some brackish-plants.[/strike]

Converted to a freshwater tank, kept the old hardscape, now with blue neocaridinas.

*Tank Progression Pics*

Latest FTS:









Fauna:

















*Equipment / Hard Scape:*
- Fluval Edge 6g 1st Generation ($27 @ Petco)
- Edge Pre-Filter Sponge
- [strike]Coralife Mini 13" T5[/strike] (returned). MR11 LED Bulb Upgrade
- SS Mesh for moss wall (use Bostich Snips to cut)
- Home Depot Red Lava Rocks ($3.85 for 6lbs, they have black too)
- 1/4" dirt, black gravel, calcium sand, crushed corals, Tahitian moon sand, river rocks (Home Depot, Petco/smart)
- Black fan coral skeleton off Evilbay

*Fauna:*
- 50+ Opae Ula
- 4 Nerites
- 3 MTS

*Flora:*
- Java Moss
- Giant Vals
- Blyxa Japonica
- HC
- 5 Red Mangrove Propagules


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_Original Post:_

Just picked up an older model for $27 at a Petco! Going to be my opae ula and nerite habitat. Do I need to replace or upgrade the old halogen bulbs on order to grow algae?


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## Geniusdudekiran

xenxes said:


> Do I need to replace or upgrade the old halogen bulbs on order to grow algae?


You don't need to TRY to grow algae :hihi:


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## skindy

xenxes said:


> Just picked up an orange older model for $27 at a Petco!


Whaaaaaat?! Lucky! I've been scouring the three Petcos around me for one of the older Fluval Edges and they're still pretty pricey!


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## oscarsx

was this a special? or is it the normal price.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk


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## Geniusdudekiran

They're clearing out the old ones to make room for the new led ones


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## xenxes

I was scouring Petco too. This one was more remote, had one old wrinkly black box listed for $150. Price check rang up $27. It's a nationwide unmarked clearance.


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## xenxes

Blah, got home, took it out to setup. It's missing the rear column with the light fixture, as well as the biomedia pack. Only has base, hood, filter. 



















I doubt they have any older ones in stock, and don't feel like making the drive to the far Petco. Think I can exchange it for a newer model at a closer store? A return really isn't worth while.


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## Geniusdudekiran

Derim it, it looks sweet that way! That's what I would do even if it did have those pieces! lol


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## xenxes

Don't really want to derim it unless I have to, to fit a light. Leaving it on allows me to fill water to the top rim. 

Going to see if I can find parts somewhere. Anyone have spare Fluval EDGE parts they want to sell me for cheap?


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## xenxes

I just ordered this Coralife Mini T5

Argh, impulse buy! We'll see if it fits... I must control myself :/


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## skindy

xenxes said:


> I was scouring Petco too. This one was more remote, had one old wrinkly black box listed for $150. Price check rang up $27. It's a nationwide unmarked clearance.


I thought the old ones were in a white box? Maybe I'm going crazy. I did see a a black box at my local one ... TIME TO DO A PRICE CHECK ASAP.

Also, that sucks that your box came with missing parts  Did the box seem pretty beat up to begin with? Maybe someone bought it, took some parts, and returned it without the Petco people knowing. BAHHH.


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## CmdrBond

Maybe the reason it was so cheap was because it was missing parts.

Re old 6 new, the new ones are definately in white and the old in black.


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## xenxes

Reason it was cheap was because it's an older model, not because it was beatup or missing parts. I was just unlucky, someone probably got it for the light and filter media (lol) and returned the rest.

Black box = older; white box = new leds.

The glass itself is worth way more than $27. The filter is an AC20 that costs $20 on Amazon. Still a good deal.

Go get that price check on the black box! Run! They're not marked, but system will show $27 in every Petco.


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## xenxes

And so it begins!









Seashells and coral + hammer, calcium sand (I probably don't need the corals, but ohwell), aquarium rocks, left over tahitian moon sand, lava rocks









Mmm the smell of baked soil after midnight, why soil? I'm planting red mangroves in this thing.









Mixed dirt + seashell/coral bits. Top off with a 5lbs of calcium sand, some Tahitian moon & aquarium gravel.









Not all lava rocks are alike, using the darker ones for more contrast.









Don't know how to scape with lava rocks so just bunched some together, began to flood then stopped myself, will probably want to paint the back black.


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## atom

Looking cool so far. Is this going to be filled all the way to the top? It would make a great terrarium or a riparium with some emersd plants.


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## xenxes

atom said:


> Looking cool so far. Is this going to be filled all the way to the top? It would make a great terrarium or a riparium with some emersd plants.


I'm leaving the orange pieces out, so no hood. This will allow plants to grow out of the opening. Keeping them just tall enough to stay within but not burnt by the light will be tricky. Will be lightly planted so I can still reach my hand in and do some rescape. I may end up derimming it if it gives me too much trouble.

I'll probably end up rescaping it before submerging. What else grows in brackish besides java moss and java fern?


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## diwu13

What do you mean by derim? Just that part that sticks like __| like that? Or the entire top glass?


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## xenxes

Both. Derim the top glass and use clips to use as a lid. If the lid isn't sealed that plastic thing on top is useless. It's a pain to reach in there and do stuff right now. 

I'll wait and see. Not sure if I'm going through with brackish water, and it's not very pretty to look at. Just red rocks + black sand + some moss. Blah 

*Edit: my opae ula source fell through, and I don't want to get (min order) 50 for $70. Maybe I'll setup a reef? Nah. What freshwater setup can I do with a 8.2 pH? Don't feel like removing the calcium sand / corals.


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## Monster Fish

Would have been nice if you could get the opae ula. The tank looks sweet. Cardinal shrimp maybe?


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## xenxes

Hmm those look creepy for some reason. Thanks for the suggestion 

I can always order off Fleabay I suppose, where did you get your opae Monster?


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## Monster Fish

Ebay. Though the seller I bought them from doesn't have any in stock atm. There's another seller on there but I haven't dealt with him.


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## kcartwright856

It looks very nice! I just did a Google search for brackish plants other than java since I'm curious myself, and I got a bunch of hits. It would seem that a surprising amount of freshwater plants can be acclimated to brackish.

I can't speak from experience, though!


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## xenxes

It's brackish, but I want it lush, so.. JAVA MOSS EVERYWHERE!  I cut my remaining SS mesh to cover most of the back wall and the floor. Still can't decide if 1 lava rock mound looks good or 2. Wish I had larger rocks, and I just found out Home Depot has black lava rocks, didn't see them though.

I can get in an order of 20 opae ula and 10 nerites together for about $52 shipped, not a bad deal. That, or 50 opae ulas for $70 shipped? Decisions.


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## diwu13

Hm... I think the 50 Opae Ula will look much more awesome than 20 and 10. Just my thought haha. I love tanks with lots of activity


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## xenxes

True, I kinda want to do the batch 20/10 order for the snails:









Pipipi or Black Nerites

But I do have another outstanding bid for some mixed nerites, ohwell, can never have too much nerites. Waiting on shipping quotes from 2 vendors. Can't believe some people charge $30 for Priority. Ripoff.


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## xenxes

Well, going ahead with the original plan. Ordered 20 opae ula and 10 black nerites, hope they don't take 2 years to breed.









Added moss, then flooded.

I don't know how to do rockscapes -- it's just a pile of rocks, it's probably too centered, but I'm too lazy to make 2 piles. Function over form in this case, directly under light = more algae on lava rocks.

Light gets here tomorrow, opae ula in 2 days. Filter should have cycled in 20g (I hope the bacteria doesn't die off transitioning to brackish). I'm so impatient


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## Monster Fish

So did you bite the bullet and order from ebay?


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## xenxes

kcartwright856 said:


> It looks very nice! I just did a Google search for brackish plants other than java since I'm curious myself, and I got a bunch of hits. It would seem that a surprising amount of freshwater plants can be acclimated to brackish.
> 
> I can't speak from experience, though!



TY  I read a little too, and while most plants will "tolerate" brackish water, only java fern and java moss will do well. I don't think java fern would look good in the tank if I want the tallest thing in there to be the rock mound. 

I might be able to get away with planting a few red mangrove poupoules in the back, gives me an excuse to go kayaking this weekend.


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## xenxes

Monster Fish said:


> So did you bite the bullet and order from ebay?


Yup. Actually the best price, unless I wanted 100. Probably going to be hard to get 20 to breed. We'll see.

I think I need more lava rocks, I don't have an area for shade, or any caves.


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## diwu13

How are those SS moss walls standing up?


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## Monster Fish

xenxes said:


> Yup. Actually the best price, unless I wanted 100. Probably going to be hard to get 20 to breed. We'll see.
> 
> I think I need more lava rocks, I don't have an area for shade, or any caves.


 20 should be fine. You could always add more when they become available again on eBay. Adding more rocks would be nice. Though where would you plant the mangroves?


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## xenxes

diwu13 said:


> How are those SS moss walls standing up?


They're just wedged b/w the sand/rocks and the glass, they're thick -- stand up fine. 




Monster Fish said:


> 20 should be fine. You could always add more when they become available again on eBay. Adding more rocks would be nice. Though where would you plant the mangroves?


I stripped the rock of HC from my 1/2g cube and threw that in there too. Instead of piling on more rocks, I just placed 3 charcoal tubes along the back behind the mound. I think it should simulate a cave environment fine. 

Mangroves... I guess inside the rock pile :/


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## xenxes

Hmm I still have an outstanding bid on 10 Nerita Tesselattas. There's different types of nerites? Order with the shrimp was for 10 Nerita Picea.

Wiki says Nerita is marine, Neritina can be marine/brackish/fresh, and Theodoxus is fresh/brackish. All 3 are genus of the family Nerite. *confused*

Most sold for fresh water tanks are Neritinas. So... will a Nerita die in a freshwater tank?


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## Monster Fish

http://www.sms.si.edu/irlspec/nerita_tessel.htm

"Temperature & Salinity:
Little information exists describing the environmental tolerances of N. tessellata. However, the distribution and range of most populations suggests the species prefers oceanic to highly saline brackish, warm coastal waters. Lewis (1960, 1963) suggested that the intertidal zonation patterns of the checkered nerite were related to its evaporative cooling abilities at tropical and subtropical latitudes."

It seems N. tesselatta is a full saltwater snail. However if slowly acclimated, it could probably survive in mid-level brackish.

http://www.fukubonsai.com/M-L1n.html
According to the research in the link above, N. picea will do well in brackish water.

Or if you can't decide, just go with some MTS.


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## xenxes

Hah! Neritas are marine. Was hoping I was wrong. Thanks for that link.

I found a really useful thread on Florida Neritas ("checkered nerites"): http://s14.invisionfree.com/Conchologist_Forum/index.php?showtopic=351


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## Robotponys

:drool:AHHH! I need to go run to Petco after school tomorrow and pick up that tank!  Thanks for letting me know! I hope there are still some left! 

Oh, and next time I go to Oceanology camp I am keeping some of the hundreds of snails we caught and painted. I was too young to love fish yet. I will post pics when I go so they can be identified. Plus there were even more crabs. Lol there are a TON. Maybe I'll try to smuggle a some sea creatures home. Plus I'm going to try to get into a biochemistry camp where we can build aquariums for jellyfish and feed them brine shrimp.  I want to take some back, if I get in.


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## xenxes

The impulse-buy light (Corallife Mini 11" Dual T5) just came in. I really don't know. It doesn't fit on top of the Edge, unless I trim off the plastic piece that comes up. So I have it resting on top of the plastic piece. Also not a fan of the actinic, but that I can change.


























I hope this shelf doesn't break, it's bowled in the middle.


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## skindy

You and your impulse buys! 

I actually like the look of the pile of rocks. Reminds me of a volcano that crumbled into itself. I'm not sold on that light yet and I think it is because of that plastic piece. How hard would it be to trim it off?


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## xenxes

It's just siliconed on, so not hard with a razor blade, but downside is I will no longer be able to fill the tank full to the brim.

If I can just affix a little stand at least it won't look weird:










These are just 2 plastic pieces that came with it, but doesn't reach up that high. I guess it works? I hate returning stuff. I could pile on more rocks to create a proper volcano? That light needs to be higher if I'm going to grow anything out of the box

*Edit: So the Coralife light has a shimmering effect, don't know if this is intended with marine lights or if it's a product defect. Either way it makes me nauseous. Can anyone recommend another light replacement for the Edge (assuming I don't want to cut off the top/plastic?)... clip on a Fluval 13W, or Finnex 26W at the filter area?


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## xenxes

Manini here is sending me 50 opae ula at an awesome price. 

Hagen's sending me a replacement back column / light fixture, what a great company  Definitely returning that Coralife light, before it makes me throw up.

Will post an update next week when I get everything.


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## diwu13

Mind me asking how much those 50 Opae Ula were including shipping?


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## diwu13

You talk about all this algae growth in MonsterFish's thread. Do you have pictures of them haha? I have hair algae in my shrimp tanks as well, but nothing that can compare to the cotton candy


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## xenxes

Lol, I said I barely have any growth compared to his, left the light running on 24hrs for a few days. This is all I have:









I don't know what this is, brown?









More spots, and there's brown dust in the tank.









GHA with some riccia still alive in 1.01 water









Moved rocks, I need to get some more mangrove seeds. Don't know why I only picked up 1 at the park this weekend. Don't like the way it looks, will either plant 2 more mangroves or remove it all.


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## diwu13

Looks like fungus or something on the SS mesh ! Getting some BGA though, doubt the shrimp will eat that.


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## xenxes

BGA is bacteria 

I got the light replacement today, don't know if I should setup the base, since it focuses all force on the middle of the shelf and will prob lead to a collapse :/


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## diwu13

Yea, definitely looks like BGA on the glass there. Maybe that stuff on the SS mesh is BGA as well?

Not too sure what you mean about the base? Is it because the base of the edge rests on a smaller rectangle?


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## xenxes

Yeah the smaller plastic cube thing on the bottom where the glass rests on 










I need to get some wood and reinforce the middle of that shelf... or just stack it with books. Not rated to hold that much weight.


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## diwu13

Wouldn't stacking it with books make it heavier ? Or you mean on the shelf underneath? I would move it entirely if you are worried about weight. You never know if it will collapse when you are at work.


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## Monster Fish

Try growing some marimo balls. I could also send you some cotton candy the next time I do a rescape. Just be careful though, since it will smother everything. Also are you going to raise the salinity any more? 1.01 is kinda low.


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## raven_wilde

Be super sure that your stainless steel mesh it not coated in zinc- that was the mistake I made when I first set up my Edge... so many sad and slow shrimp deaths before I realized what was going on


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## xenxes

I thought 1.01 was fine for opae? I want to keep some nerites in there too.

Tested water today and it crashed, nitrite spike 5ppm+. I think my salt dosing to the filter cannister killed the bacteria, stupid idea. And this tank is more sensitive since it's not as densely planted as my others. Good thing the shrimp won't be here for a while. I'm figuring out what else I can plant in here, there's a brackish-crypt I'm trying to get a hold of. But I imagine once the mangroves root it'll be more than enough to help filter the water.

I don't think the mesh I got was zinc-coated, the yellow stuff came off (it's not rust either).

Link to the mesh I got: 



> Type 316 contains *molybdenum *for increased resistance to chemical corrosion. Basic to all filtering is the ability of the media to withhold or pass particles of a desired size in the flow path. The very fine wire mesh of this standard Stainless Steel Screening has many natural characteristics to recommend it for calendering, filtering and processing: uniformity of hole size; excellent strength to weight ratio; a large percentage of open area; superior resistance to corrosion, abrasion, vibration and temperature variations; long life; and easy cleaning. Stainless Steel Screening may also be used for electrical shielding, structural fabrication, screening, and as ventilation guards.


I did find this on Mo -- http://www.pwrc.usgs.gov/infobase/eisler/CHR_19_Molybdenum.pdf



> Its toxicological properties in mammals are governed to a remarkable extent through interaction with copper and sulfur; residues of Mo alone are not sufficient to diagnose Mo poisoning.


Is there sulfur in Seachem Prime? There is certainly a sulfur smell.

From their Q&A it doesn't seem so:



> A: Prime®has a very distinct odor that is similar to sulfur which is completely normal. Also, the presence of small black specks is normal.


Oh wait I don't care about mammals:



> High bioconcentration of Mo by certain species of aquatic algae and invertebrates--up to 20 grams of Mo/kg dry weight--has been recorded without apparent harm to the accumulator.


I think I'm good? Lol, funny what 5 mins of Googling will uncover, it never stops. Back to work


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## diwu13

If you bought legit SS mesh it should only be stainless steel and not other metals.


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## Monster Fish

They seem to do better with more salt in the water. I know your plants should be be able to tolerate up to 1.010 from what I've read.


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## xenxes

I'm contemplating getting a black sea fan for the tank:










I know they put these in those biospheres, I imagine it's the equivalent of a saltwater driftwood that hosts microfauna and algae growth. Plus it looks good. Evilbay has them for around $20. Anyone know any other sources?

*Edit: nevermind I just impulse-bought one, lol.

Smaller one I bought:









Had to pay taxes since in-state :/ I should have bought one wider and less round /buyersremorse. But hey, I can turn it into a green hair algae tree!


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## xenxes

diwu13 said:


> If you bought legit SS mesh it should only be stainless steel and not other metals.





> Grade 304 is the standard "18/8" stainless; it is the most versatile and most widely used stainless steel, available in a wider range of products including stainless steel tables, cabinets and more , forms and finishes than any other. It has excellent forming and welding characteristics. The balanced austenitic structure of Grade 304 enables it to be severely deep drawn without intermediate annealing, which has made this grade dominant in the manufacture of drawn stainless parts such as sinks, hollow-ware and saucepans. Grade 304 is readily brake or roll formed into a variety of components for applications in the industrial, architectural, and transportation fields. Grade 304 also has outstanding welding characteristics. Post-weld annealing is not required when welding thin sections.





> Grade 316 is the standard molybdenum-bearing grade, second in importance to 304 amongst the austenitic stainless steels. The molybdenum gives 316 better overall corrosion resistant properties than Grade 304, particularly higher resistance to pitting and crevice corrosion in chloride environments. It has excellent forming and welding characteristics. It is readily brake or roll formed into a variety of parts for applications in the industrial, architectural, and transportation fields. Grade 316 also has outstanding welding characteristics. Post-weld annealing is not required when welding thin sections.


From everything I read molybdenum is inert, just has more anti-corrosive properties. If anything it's better than regular SS for brackish/marine environments b/c it resists chloride corrosion -- deep sea oil drilling rigs use this stuff.


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## xenxes

LOL got the replacement in the mail:










Starting to think this tank just wasn't meant to be


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## xenxes

I went ahead and attached it anyway so I can return the coralife light. Did not bother attaching the base (that would require me to drain and lift the tank). Glued some big pieces back, looks fine, and you can barely see the back.

Turning the filter off dislodged all the brown dust algae!


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## BrayN

I like it. I think I like the 2 piles of lava rock better than one as well.


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## skindy

You are having the worse luck with this Edge! I can't believe they packed it so lightly. Was there more padding in there?


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## diwu13

xenxes said:


> I'm contemplating getting a black sea fan for the tank:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Had to pay taxes since in-state :/ I should have bought one wider and less round /buyersremorse. But hey, I can turn it into a green hair algae tree!


LMAO you and your impulse buys.... Why can't you just stick driftwood into a salt water tank? Isn't that pretty natural or something? Why would you specifically need that black sea fan wood thing?


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## diwu13

xenxes said:


> LOL got the replacement in the mail:
> 
> Starting to think this tank just wasn't meant to be


Where was this replacement from? The Fluval company? Such bad packing... the sponge filters I got come more protected than that...



xenxes said:


> I went ahead and attached it anyway so I can return the coralife light. Did not bother attaching the base (that would require me to drain and lift the tank). Glued some big pieces back, looks fine, and you can barely see the back.
> 
> Turning the filter off dislodged all the brown dust algae!
> 
> 
> 
> BrayN said:
> 
> 
> 
> I like it. I think I like the 2 piles of lava rock better than one as well.
> 
> 
> 
> So you won't be returning it for another one?
> 
> Btw... you're right about that shelf. I see some serious bowing already on that top part. You should buy a some plywood and stick it on top, or I can see that entire shelf cracking in a few months.
Click to expand...


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## xenxes

Yes from Hagen, just packed with packing paper, 2 large sheets. I contacted them, but they're all out of orange... I guess I can spray paint the fixtures all some other color. Tank is definitely proving to be more trouble than it's worth :/

Cheap IKEA shelf. I'm going to reinforce the shelf in the middle and the back column to distribute the weight. Presently a large bottle of Tylenol is acting as a pillar for the middle of the top shelf.


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## xenxes

Tank Progression Pics:


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## diwu13

I would definitely just get a piece of ply or some other harder wood and put that over the entire top of the shelf. That, or put in some vertical slats of wood to add support to the middle of your shelf. If you plan on leaving this tank there I wouldn't want it cracking or anything! Especially with all the issues already !

New scape reminds me of easter island haha.


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## Monster Fish

So, when are you expecting the shrimp?


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## xenxes

Expecting shrimp on Friday (shipped Tues), Priority shipping from HI takes longer  Hoping most of them make it. 

Swung by Home Depot this afternoon and just grabbed some 2x4 wood blocks, cut them up, spray painted them and stuck them under the shelf board for support (one in front one in back on each shelf level). Ghetto fabulous, but now stable and no more bowing. I'm throwing out all this furniture if/when I move.


















Also attached the base, the light column was hanging too low. Curious to see what that mangrove propagule does. Need to remember to pickup a few more off the ground.


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## diwu13

Haha that ghetto fix is pretty good. If you got thinner supports it might have looked legit! Did you measure it to size and get home depot to cut it exactly? You do this so fast lol. Is this tank in your bathroom ?!?!


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## xenxes

2x4 was the smallest unless I went particle board. I'd rather it be a little ugly and be on the safer side. They don't cut anything <12", so I used a hacksaw and hand sander. I miss my midwestern house where I had access to power tools and a garage.

Yeah it's a bathroom tank, the orange actually matches the Van Gogh imitation I have in there.

Tank might look good if the moss grows out. I'm dosing Nutrafin Cycle in this since freshwater bacteria doesn't seem to convert to brackish.


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## diwu13

I feel like I will need to ask for your input in the future when I set up my shrimp rack. I'll have to support the selves as you did so the middle doesn't bow. I see other people do it but I just get confused most of the time haha. Like what you did I would want it to blend in with the stand color as well.

Any problems with the shower humidity affecting the tank temperature?

Hm... how do people normally start bacteria in brackish water? 

Btw... you didn't answer my question here  http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/p...luval-edge-6g-moss-volcano-4.html#post1737149


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## xenxes

I have no idea, I read someone else's brackish tank on houstonfishbox forums went through the same thing, he used a cycled filter in a brackish tank (and unlike me he didn't pour salt directly in, mixed first). Still the tank crashed and he had to start from scratch. 

I'm on day 3 of Nutrafin, will do another nitrite test later today or tomorrow. It was reading 5ppm+ 3 days ago, did no water changes.

Oh, I don't know about the sea fan... saw it in those Ecospheres and thought there was a reason other than aesthetics, so I got it. Also I already have a tank with driftwood.


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## thefisherman

xenxes i'm impressed by how many tanks you have! i wish my wife would let me keep more tanks in the house ...aside from my 20L and desk nano she's got me holed up in the basement 

how do you manage scaping the edge with that little opening? 


- thefisherman


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## xenxes

Lol, my fiance has a more libertarian disciplinary approach -- let me do what I want till I tire myself out, and I'm already starting to realize I can't keep this up and eventually need to consolidate or move to self-sustainable setups. 

I moved those rocks with a tweezer, or two fingers, sometimes I'd poke a stick. It's not fun. But the good thing with this tank is after setup it's 0 maintenance. Opae don't require water changes, just top offs.


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## diwu13

What's your total WC time now with all those tanks? You only change it on the weekends right?


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## xenxes

Um, I haven't changed any water recently :/ don't know how long it's been, 2 weeks? More concerned about forgetting to feed.


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## diwu13

Uh oh... that TDS is probably like 100 higher than when it was before !


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## xenxes

I don't know, I just threw in the 5 bumblebee nerites I got, one seemed dead/half-dead. And one looks like a batik. They're so tiny!


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## diwu13

Oh those look nice! Did you get those from msjinkzd as well?


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## xenxes

Yeah, one of the bumble bees was doa :/ so I have 3 bees and 1 batik (2 different sp.) in the tank. Lol doubt the bee will breed (or if I even have a M/F pair). They're so small! Shrimp comes in tonight, don't think tank is fully cycled but they're hardy... much easier when you have a lot of plants, moss alone just don't quite cut it.


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## diwu13

Sorry about the DOA . Are you going to save the shell? I think the nerites will end up breeding and the young will hatch in their tank. But nerite young are like free floaters and die like 90% of the time. Hope the shrimp breed for you though, that would be cool !


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## xenxes

Got my shrimp!









Priority from Hawaii, took 4 days, NO DOAS (saw no exoskeletons)!









Doesn't look like 50 you say? I count 62, correct me if I'm wrong.









They love java moss, this one is a real deep wine-red color.









Exploring the new black fan coral skeleton I just put in, probably nothing growing on it yet.









Latest FTS, they're zooming back and forth through the tank now (the first hour they just sat still).

I regret trimming the black fan coral down an inch, the upper branches don't look as natural.


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## Monster Fish

Nice. I had a few DOAs with two-day shipping. Glad they all made it.


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## xenxes

They like Jake's veggie sticks. roud:


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## Eldachleich

Wow!! I'm so jealous of this tank... All your tanks actually..


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## xenxes

diwu13 said:


> Sorry about the DOA . Are you going to save the shell? I think the nerites will end up breeding and the young will hatch in their tank. But nerite young are like free floaters and die like 90% of the time. Hope the shrimp breed for you though, that would be cool !


Nerite young float on the surface and eat what, surface scum? I'm less worried about the shrimp breeding. Would be awesome if the Clithon corona bred.


----------



## diwu13

I counted 63 . It's funny how shrimp start to swim in a specific direction in the acclimating container. And you can spook a few but them like 90% of them go back to swimming in the same direction.

Are they still bugging out now? Or have the shrimp settled down in your tank today?

Nerite young aren't free floaters sorry. But they float in the water column and eat algae much like amano shrimp young. Chances are if you have had success with amano shrimp, then you should technically be able to breed nerites as well in the same setup.

Btw.. that tank looks awesome. That sea fan is great! You didn't tie anything to it like moss or what not?


----------



## xenxes

I've never kept amano. I thought about tying green hair algae to the sea fan but don't have enough. I'll just let it sit and catch whatever floats that way. Shrimp settled down, but a lot still swim around actively. They seem to be much more active than neocaridinas. These shrimp actually swarm on the veggie sticks, the cherries/blue rilis just walk around like nothing happened when I drop food in the tank--I think they're getting too stupid from too much inbreeding.


----------



## thefisherman

xenxes said:


> I've never kept amano. I thought about tying green hair algae to the sea fan but don't have enough. I'll just let it sit and catch whatever floats that way. Shrimp settled down, but a lot still swim around actively. They seem to be much more active than neocaridinas. These shrimp actually swarm on the veggie sticks, the cherries/blue rilis just walk around like nothing happened when I drop food in the tank--I think they're getting too stupid from too much inbreeding.


i love amano shrimp (before i co2 gassed them to death) they're a nice size and very hardworking. i definatley would consider giving them another shot


- thefisherman


----------



## aweeby

I really like this concept. When the java grows in it'll look amazing!



xenxes said:


> True, I kinda want to do the batch 20/10 order for the snails:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pipipi or Black Nerites
> 
> But I do have another outstanding bid for some mixed nerites, ohwell, can never have too much nerites. Waiting on shipping quotes from 2 vendors. Can't believe some people charge $30 for Priority. Ripoff.


Wait, these are the same things people put in their tanks?? To CLEAN ALGAE? He's charging that much for them? WHATTTT? I bet they are wild collected. geez. I go to the beach and these things are everywhere! What the heck? Well, I know what I'm doing tomorrow. I wonder if this will work.


----------



## xenxes

Lol I was able to cancel that order, pipipi are marine nerites (aquarium nerites are usually _neritinas _or _clithon coronas_, which can live in fresh, brackish, or marine). 

Pipipi is a _nerita_, a genus of marine snails that will tolerate brackish water but will not survive in freshwater environments.

See this: http://www.fukubonsai.com/M-L1n.html

A lot of people sell them with opae ulas.


----------



## xenxes

thefisherman said:


> i love amano shrimp (before i co2 gassed them to death) they're a nice size and very hardworking. i definatley would consider giving them another shot
> 
> 
> - thefisherman


They are really hard working. But I read they were also very opportunistic feeders and fairly aggressive to other shrimp, my algae's pretty under control and I'd like to keep the tanks cherry-only for now.


----------



## aweeby

Alright, good. You just saved a snail's life. :angel: Guess I'll just stay out of those tide pools for now. I'll go order myself some nerites instead. :hihi:



xenxes said:


> Lol I was able to cancel that order, pipipi are marine nerites (aquarium nerites are usually _neritinas _or _clithon coronas_, which can live in fresh, brackish, or marine).
> 
> Pipipi is a _nerita_, a genus of marine snails that will tolerate brackish water but will not survive in freshwater environments.
> 
> See this: http://www.fukubonsai.com/M-L1n.html
> 
> A lot of people sell them with opae ulas.


----------



## xenxes

Lol make sure they don't say marine. You basically want Neritinas or Clithon Coronas to be safe. Still I'm not sure if all Neritas are strictly marine, I know the ones here in FL are.

Pipipi are still nice to keep with opae (black and red contrast), can you find opae ulas in local tide pools too?


----------



## jamesyu

Great Edge tank!! I like the lava rock layout.

Never have had any luck with Fluval Edge tanks, I end up getting this red slime all the time in my aquaclear filter for this tank, never knew how it happened, but it just did.


----------



## xenxes

I was taking out the filter media to rinse the sponge in some tank water. And unleashed a FLOOD of BROWN-ORANGE DUST into the tank. Brown diatoms mixed with lava rock dust or something else? I did throw in half an algae wafer a long time ago, then kept the light on 24/7. 

Geez, should I leave it be and let the algae accumulate in the filter area or take the entire filter out and dump the algae water?


----------



## diwu13

I think you should do a 20% WC or something. I know suspended dust in tanks isn't too good for the inhabitants. It does look spooky haha.


----------



## xenxes

The water was clear, all of it was in the cartridge, until I messed with it. Apparently lava rocks have high silicate composition that encourage brown diatom growth. I need more mangrove plants, and need them to actually root.

Funny, the snails sprinted for the water surface as soon as the diatoms took over the water column, now it's clearing up and they're heading back down. I'm waiting for it to clear up some more then just dumping the water in the filter.


----------



## thefisherman

bronare you a set designer? cuz all your tanks look like their meant to be scenes in movies! you have soo
much potential in your tanks i can't wait for the growth and payoff... good luck man...you inspire me to scape my 30B and 5g grow out tanks! 



- thefisherman


----------



## xenxes

thefisherman said:


> bronare you a set designer? cuz all your tanks look like their meant to be scenes in movies! you have soo
> much potential in your tanks i can't wait for the growth and payoff... good luck man...you inspire me to scape my 30B and 5g grow out tanks!
> 
> 
> 
> - thefisherman


Lol I didn't mean for it to look like that, I want that brown stuff gone. Lost a shrimp, hope it was a fluke. One of those snails was doa, was dying @ the bottom, I vacuumed it out and threw the shell back in.  

So down to 3 bumble bees 1 batik. One of the bb's had a damaged shell too, hardly moves. Breeding chances are very low.


----------



## diwu13

Brown stuff might have something to do with it. But I think chances are it was stressed from the shipping.


----------



## diwu13

Any news? All shrimp alright now? Water clearing up?


----------



## xenxes

Water's always clear when the filter runs for a while, but the sponge is covered in brown diatoms again, and the cartridge is filled. I'll have to dump it out and do another partial change tomorrow. Been out of town for 2 days. TDS in this tank 600+.


----------



## diwu13

Dang! Everything still alive and well in this tank?

I asked Rachael and she said it's best to feed the fish every day. Have you ever left on a trip for 3+ days without feeding your fish yet?


----------



## xenxes

Yeah, but there's always something in the tank for them to nibble on. Lots of tiny inverts, and moss has microfauna. If I go away for 3+ I leave one of those feeder blocks.


----------



## diwu13

Hm... the feeder blocks never did work out well for me. Not sure what I'll do this weekend when I leave


----------



## xenxes

Finally remembered to grab some more mangrove propagules off the ground.









Have 5 now, 1's red, the other 4 might be white mangroves, unsure. Looks like a hand 









Hair algae is getting caught on the sea fan, looks like I'll have an algae tree.


Spotted a couple more shrimp deaths (up to 5 now). Ugh, if they all kick it I"ll just change it to freshwater and add neocaridinas. This tank is not cycling, freshwater bacteria just dies off. I wonder if something else might be wrong, i.e. lava rocks were chemically treated. Snails seem unfazed.


----------



## diwu13

That does kinda look like a hand. I really like the scape look now if only the moss would grow out to cover all of the SS mesh.

Ugh... sorry about all the shrimp deaths. I don't think the lava rocks were chemically treated or the snails would also be dying off. But then again, an uncycled tank would result in the same thing. The tank should slowly be cycling now that there is a constant source of ammonia in the tank.


----------



## shrimpnmoss

That's an AWESOME looking Opae tank. Where did you buy the gorgonian skeleton?


----------



## xenxes

Sea fan off fleabay. The tank is cycling... 0.25 Ammonia / 5+ Nitrite / 80+ Nitrate. Just did a 70% w/c. Going to do another 50 tomorrow. Should have changed it when I got back, could have saved a couple shrimps  Brackish is more difficult, in the fresh tanks the floaters and absurd amount of plants would have sucked up the ammonia and nitrates. I need those mangrove roots to come out.

Thing is I'm not dosing salt when I'm doing w/cs. I'm afraid when I adjust salinity the old bacteria will die off again. I could probably get away doing it more gradually, i.e. a teaspoon a day first mixed in water. Cycling and re-cycling this tank is a royal PITA.

Oh yeah, Hagen sent me an unbroken column  another +1 for Fluval customer support.


----------



## diwu13

Aw man.. that sounds really hard. Did MonsterFish give you any tips on how he cycled his tank?

And I thought they already got like -2 for sending you crap twice already :X


----------



## xenxes

I think it's going to finish cycling in the next week or so, nitrate levels skyrocketed. Should be a good amount of nitrobacter now. Now I just have to not kill it off again from a salt overdose. For those thinking about using fresh/marine water cycled bacteria for brackish, think again 



> ...biological filter bacteria cannot tolerate big changes in salinity. Though the science is a bit vague, as a rule of thumb a filter matured in a freshwater aquarium can be adapted to a salinity about 25% that of normal seawater (SG 1.005). Raising the salinity above that stresses freshwater-adapted filter bacteria, and there's a process of re-maturation that has to occur as the freshwater bacteria die off and the brackish water bacteria start multiplying. Bacteria adapted to a middling salinity, around SG 1.010, seem to be somewhat tolerant of changes around this level, and you can vary the salinity within the range SG 1.008-1.012 without problems. There is some anecdotal evidence that varying salinity encourages some brackish water fish to spawn, but beyond that, doing so isn't necessary.


Moss haven't shown any sign of new growth, mostly dying off, duckweed actually survives in here but the current at the top is too strong and keeps blowing them down below. 

I need some massive nitrate suckers in here, the dying moss and java ferns just won't do. Any suggestions?

*Accidentally let the salinity fall to 1.002, bumped it back up to 1.01... hope the bacteria didn't die again


----------



## FisheriesOmen

xenxes said:


> Probably going to be hard to get 20 to breed. We'll see.


lol, you'll regret saying that just see.... I only started with 6 in a 10 gal Nano Lagoon....you don't wanna know what they do in their free time :hihi: :icon_lol: :icon_wink:icon_redf:thumbsup::icon_roll:icon_eek: :flick: :tongue::icon_mrgr

EDIT: wait herp derp I'm talking about black nerites dont know anything about Opae


----------



## xenxes

Black nerites in a marine environment? 

I'm not liking brackish, think I would have had an easier time going with full marine. Looking for brackish-tolerate macroalgae now  don't think I have enough wpg for seagrasses.

Just realized I have all red mangrove propagules, yay  Brackish/marine/fresh all fine, can be grown entirely submerged too.


----------



## FisheriesOmen

don't give up hope on the brackish. Treat it like a very low-salt concentrated marine tank. What i think you should have done was just let the water do its own thing w/o adding bacteria from a different tank. And I know that red mangroves are total ballers when it comes to stabalizing, just gotta wait for them to root, if everything goes to hell just let it cycle through. "do or do not there is no try" -Yoda :hihi:


----------



## FisheriesOmen

you planted the mangrove the right way, right? and also does it have soil? if not just buy some organic potting soil for cheap and stick them in that..i dont think they can grow from just rocks.


----------



## xenxes

Yeah I have a layer of soil, and stuck it in the right way 

Probably should add some more soil though, only have maybe 1/4"-1/2". Most likely will just pour more sand on top, otherwise I'd have to drain and redo the substrate.


----------



## diwu13

Not too sure about heavy duty nitrite sinks besides moss, floaters, and anacharius. I doubt the latter of which can survive in brackish water.



xenxes said:


> Just realized I have all red mangrove propagules, yay  Brackish/marine/fresh all fine, can be grown entirely submerged too.


So what does this mean. White/Black can't grow in brackish environments?


----------



## xenxes

Red's the best.



> Red Mangrove (Rhizophora mangle)
> - can live as submerse, emersed or fully terrestrial (if well-hydrated)
> - tolerates fresh, brackish or full seawater but cannot be freely moved between gradients
> 
> Black Mangrove (Avicenia germinans)
> - can live as emersed of fully terrestrial
> - tolerates salted air and some salted water, but favors fresh environments
> 
> White Mangrove (Laguncularia racemosa)
> - lives as a fully terrestrial plant
> - naturally tolerates salted air (coastal) but suffers excess salted water


None of mine have rooted, I don't think the substrate is deep enough.


----------



## diwu13

So for the newbs out there. Which end of the red mangrove are you supposed to plant going by the picture you posted?


----------



## FisheriesOmen

No there is a distinct difference between the different types of mangroves. The red ones are the ones aquarists use because they are the ones that live on the edge of the coast in the water. Black mangroves live in the mud right next to the shore. White mangroves life off shore on land.


----------



## FisheriesOmen

diwu13 said:


> So for the newbs out there. Which end of the red mangrove are you supposed to plant going by the picture you posted?


Easiest way is just to float the propagules on the water and they absorb water and it will start to tilt and will eventually spear into the soil(this is what happens in the wild). So it would make sense that the bulb end would be which side you plant because that side would be heavier when wet.


----------



## diwu13

FisheriesOmen said:


> Easiest way is just to float the propagules on the water and they absorb water and it will start to tilt and will eventually spear into the soil(this is what happens in the wild). So it would make sense that the bulb end would be which side you plant because that side would be heavier when wet.


Oh that's really cool! Thanks for the information


----------



## FisheriesOmen

yep read this if you want to learn more about it. Its a really cool strategy to ensure best survival rate:http://faculty.ucc.edu/biology-ombrello/pow/red_mangrove.htm


----------



## xenxes

No progress on mangroves, moss are still dying, java fern are hanging in there. Algae tree grew out a bit more. I did another massive w/c, running out of salt. Another snail went MIA, I might have buried in under gravel.










Some macro of 1/2" shrimp & snail:


----------



## diwu13

Whoa... the eyes of your Opae Ula are so easy to see. A lot of the pictures I've seen online you can barely see the eyes. Maybe yours are still juvi's. I read that the eyes shrimp overtime or something lol.

The lighting still makes this scape kind of eerie. Needs some low rolling fog


----------



## CrazyCatPeekin

diwu13 said:


> The lighting still makes this scape kind of eerie. Needs some low rolling fog


This scape does look rather eerie. I really like that about it, actually.


----------



## diwu13

So why do you wanna add some amanos into here xenxes?


----------



## FisheriesOmen

Make sure your tank isn't too "fresh" or the mangroves might not grow. I know there was an article on the care for these in one of my Aquarium Fish International...I'll go find it and take a pic. for you. I really want to see those mangroves become a success.
EDIT: I'll find it tomorrow right now i gotta sleep lol


----------



## Monster Fish

What's your salinity at now?


----------



## xenxes

Wanted amanos to control the hair algae, opaes don't seem to touch it.

Salinity @ ~1.01-1.012 now, didn't get an accurate reading.


----------



## diwu13

Amanos won't control it... they will utterly DEVOUR all the hair algae.


----------



## FisheriesOmen

1.01 seems barely adequate for mangorves.Since mangroves have such a big influence from sea water it is considered a High-Salinity Brackish water "plant". Try upping it to 1.025(make sure your inhabitants can handle it first though).


----------



## xenxes

Um, that's the gravity for a full marine tank. Red mangroves tolerate all kinds of water conditions. 1.01 is half salt or brackish.


----------



## xenxes

Lost a couple more shrimp, but tank finally cycled 

Water's much clearer now:









Hair algae going out of control, one of these days I'll have to take it out and reshape it on both sides of the fan:


----------



## diwu13

How did you know the tank cycled? How many shrimp are remaining you think? Moss still isn't doing well I see . 

I can barely see the mangrove "hand" behind the tree haha. The hair algae is so thick!


----------



## shrimpnmoss

That's crazy hair algae! Amanos should take care of the remaining after you manually remove most of it. I want some Opae now!


----------



## Monster Fish

Soon you will have clouds of hair algae like me. Muahahaha! Though I wonder if adult amanos can handle brackish water. I know their larvae need it to survive after hatching.


----------



## diwu13

shrimpnmoss said:


> That's crazy hair algae! Amanos should take care of the remaining after you manually remove most of it. I want some Opae now!


He wants the hair algae there on purpose for the Opae Ula


----------



## @[email protected]

FisheriesOmen said:


> 1.01 seems barely adequate for mangorves.Since mangroves have such a big influence from sea water it is considered a High-Salinity Brackish water "plant". Try upping it to 1.025(make sure your inhabitants can handle it first though).


that is the salinity of seawater. my reef is 1.024 and it has happy corals in it.


----------



## xenxes

Monster Fish said:


> Soon you will have clouds of hair algae like me. Muahahaha! Though I wonder if adult amanos can handle brackish water. I know their larvae need it to survive after hatching.





diwu13 said:


> He wants the hair algae there on purpose for the Opae Ula


Yeah I'm wondering how good a nitrate sucker hair algae is, it certainly grows fast.

They definitely don't eat hair algae. I think at least it hosts some microfauna growth like moss, since moss won't thrive in here?

Would like some more plants/algae in here to keep it more stable, didn't venture into marine macro-algaes yet; not many completely brackish plants.


----------



## diwu13

I think you should keep letting the hair algae grow out. You seem to have tons of growth between the current picture and the one taken a few days back. Pretty soon you'll have hair algae like MonsterFish does lol. You won't even need any other plants.

But you're right, the hair algae might out compete the mangroves and the moss.


----------



## diwu13

So... how are these little guys doing? How are you doing?


----------



## Red_Wall

Cool looking tank! I'll keep watching this thread for sure! (+1 for the amanos)


----------



## xenxes

I think I may end up using the algae for wall and ground cover.


----------



## ValMM

It looks like green fire.


----------



## freph

That would be one fat amano off of the algae. Holy cow. How're the shrimp doing?


----------



## xenxes

Spotted 1 death today, I think I still have 40-50 in the tank. Think I'll remove the SS mesh soon, the moss is most definitely all dead.


----------



## diwu13

Holy crap man! How long are you running the lighting for to grow that awesome bush?


----------



## xenxes

8-10 hours a day, same as the other tanks.


----------



## diwu13

Hm... now do you think that stuff is "hair algae" or "string algae". I've heard the two are different and amanos only eat hair algae? It does look like what I have...


----------



## xenxes

I think it's the same? Haven't gotten any amanos yet, I still get the feeling the opaes will slowly die out. Fighting the urge to rip it out and redo a freshwater setup. Tanks are most fun during setup and in that first month


----------



## diwu13

Hm... my amano's aren't eating my hair/string algae. Guess I'll take a picture and show Rachael and ask her if she knows what it is.


----------



## xenxes

Bad pic, but I took out all the SS mesh w/ moss, they were mostly if not all dead. Stripped the algae from the tree and weighed them down with some rocks. It's not going to stay that low for long. By next week I'll have half the tank submersed in hair algae


----------



## diwu13

How did you go about redoing this tank? I know the opening is small so did you take the tree out and remove the hair? Or do it with both hands crammed in the opening?


----------



## xenxes

I took the tree out, reached in 1 hand. Really do not like this tank other than how it looks, the tiny opening makes doing anything difficult. 

I think I counted 2 shrimp in there, lol. Might be time to convert it to fresh water and start over. 

Should I keep the scape? I'd like to plant heavily. I'm thinking keep the rocks and sea fan, replace the hair algae carpet with marsilea minima, plant stems along the back?


----------



## diwu13

Yeah I figured it would be super hard for maintence or whatever. You kinda just have to leave everything alone o.o

Only 2?!?! What the hell happened to them to make them all die? still no idea?

Your idea sounds good. So you'd throw away all the mangroves and what not?


----------



## xenxes

No idea, the couple at first were due to crash, but then the tank cycled, I checked water parameters weekly. 8 pH, 0/0/5-10. 

One theory... is that I had a few giant opae mixed in, that aren't really opae, but look like them and actually prey on them. Or they didn't get enough food, but the ones in those closed containers last years with little food?


----------



## wicca27

that algae is from a moss ball and hard to get rid of. i know from the hard way like always lol. if you have a moss ball in any tank and used same net it can cross over (again found out hard way) best way i know to rid a tank of it is peroxide in a spray bottle and spray under the water


----------



## diwu13

Giant opae eating little opae? So then you only got 2 giant opae haha?


----------



## GMYukonon24s

Nice tank I like the skeleton tree.


----------



## Robert H

I am not surprised the moss died off, I do not think they would take any salinity very well, or that high of a pH.

Volcano shrimp are partially subterranean. They live in tide pools that settle in lava rock with no plants at all, and are under direct sun. They go deep into lava rock crevices to reproduce. The larvae are then attracted by the light and swim toward it to live in the open water. They feed on algae and insect carrion. 

Your original mounds of lava rock I thought looked better and give the shrimp the hiding places that they enjoy. They have been known to reproduce in the aquarium, and even adapt to freshwater. They are one of the longest living shrimp, over 20 years. I don't know that they would make much of a dent on hair algae. They eat small bits of green algae for sure.

True moss balls do not spread easily and are completely non evasive, and EXTREMLY slow growing. They do best in cold water and little light. They come from high altitude cold mountain lakes in Japan, Iceland, and northern Europe. Shrimp do not usually eat "moss balls". Other forms of algae can grow on top of moss balls. Hair algae will grow on top of moss balls.


----------



## xenxes

I read java moss was the most tolerant, and true brackish species. No idea that pH would affect it. I think I didn't acclimate enough and just threw it in. I have about 6 bamboo charcoal tubes in the back for the shrimp to hide in


----------



## Monster Fish

So all the Opae ula are dead?


----------



## xenxes

A lot I'm thinking, I hardly seem any in the tank now. But there's definitely a couple in the back or in the tubes. I'll see where I'm at after I redo my 9g, if I turn this freshwater or keep with it.


----------



## diwu13

So Kyle was OK with you linking your planted space?


----------



## xenxes

In Other Websites and signatures seem okay, a lot of people have their blogs/sites linked back and forth.

Two of the mangroves finally rooted, the top is cracking apart and leaves are coming out


----------



## diwu13

So since they are finally growing are you tempted to not switch to FW? The mangroves will die then right?


----------



## xenxes

I don't know 

There is such a tiny space between the top of the mangroves and the light. I'm not sure if they can survive constant clippings as they reach the water surface.

Either way I need to work on the 9.2g EHEIM first, I just yanked out the moss tree. They're neat, but not functional at all. The moss blocks all the light to the carpet plant in front.


----------



## xenxes

Update, remember how I used algae as carpeting--it didn't stay as a carpet for long :/










Finally, the mangroves spring to life:


----------



## diwu13

How many shrimps are still alive you think


----------



## xenxes

I don't want to know  hands off for now, lol.


----------



## diwu13

So now that you redid the 9G when are you going to redo this one ?


----------



## xenxes

Now that I'm done with the 9g, I'm ready to rescape this and convert to freshwater. 

Few things:

(1) Hardscape: keep the lava rocks + seasfan skeleton OR use these two pieces of driftwood I have left?










(2) Fauna: yellow shrimp tank, or a dwarf puffer tank?

(3) Keep the substrate or start over? Right now I have calcium sand in there on some soil, so ph of ~7.8.


----------



## Monster Fish

1) Keep the sea-fan and lava rocks.
2) Depends if you have other shrimp tanks already. Personally I'd go with yellow shrimp.
3) Depends on if you want to keep dwarf puffers. Though I believe Neos can tolerate the high pH.


----------



## diwu13

1) +1 to what monsterfish said
2) shrimp!!! SHEEEE RIMP!
3) add a bit more substrate in. can be inactive but I always like ~2in of substrate to plant in.


----------



## xenxes

Farewell pics before converting to freshwater:


























Hair algae is beautiful to scape ground cover with--looks like green fog, if only it was controllable.


----------



## Eldachleich

Puffer... I vote for puffer...


----------



## xenxes

I have exactly 30 clear-blue-ish shrimp in here now. Hope I get a non-shrimp-eating puffer.


----------



## Eldachleich

xenxes said:


> I have exactly 30 clear-blue-ish shrimp in here now. Hope I get a non-shrimp-eating puffer.


LOL... Nevermind lol..


----------



## xenxes

Looks the same, minus the salt.


----------



## shrimpnmoss

What happened to the Opaes? Did you convert them over too?


----------



## xenxes

shrimpnmoss said:


> What happened to the Opaes? Did you convert them over too?


Yeah, forgot to update my first post. Now with blue neos :/


----------



## Chizpa305

So are you getting rid of the hair algae? I think it looks better clear, although the algae made the coral to look like a tree. But it gets too messy.


----------



## xenxes

All the hair algae is gone, what's left I killed with Excel. The blue neos really pop under the lighting, now if only I can focus the camera.


----------



## Monster Fish

Are those blue pearls?


----------



## moonwasaloon

What plants do you have growing?


----------



## diwu13

So where did the poor remaining opae's go? You coulda housed them together with the pearls!


----------



## xenxes

Blue neo. heteropodas (not zhangjiajiensis). I think the opaes died out, might be a few in here I don't know.

Giant Vals & Blyxa Japonica in the back, HC in the front, threw in some daphnia and water cleared up really well.


----------



## diwu13

I think you have blue pearls. But they did change the name from zhangjiajiensis to palmata (not heteropodas, you definitely don't have blueberry shrimp).


----------



## xenxes

They're blue rili culls (without the red), pretty sure they're heteropoda.

The TDS in this tank keeps shooting back up to 800-900, must be the residue marine salt stuck in the substrate. Ugh. Does not seem to be harming the shrimp though.


----------



## Lludu

if its a rili cull then it is a heteropoda, just with no red markings.


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## diwu13

Ah yup. Rili culls would be heteropoda. Those look really similar to blue pearls though haha.


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## xenxes

HC dies in this tank, at least the moss grows










Probably forgot to mention, moved the mangroves outside into the bucket, they were getting waaay too big (past the light)


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## diwu13

Dang I see all the shrimps in there!

I really like the scape in this tank. Like a worshipping area haha. How many shrimps do you think are in there?


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## xenxes

I threw about 45 in, saw at least 3 berried 2 weeks ago, so maybe 100? Lots of tiny buggers.


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## diwu13

Oh cool. And this is just using tap water right?


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## xenxes

Yeah just tap, I no longer change the water in any of the tanks, except the 9g due to tannin leeching.


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## [email protected]

xenxes said:


> It's brackish, but I want it lush, so.. JAVA MOSS EVERYWHERE!  I cut my remaining SS mesh to cover most of the back wall and the floor. Still can't decide if 1 lava rock mound looks good or 2. Wish I had larger rocks, and I just found out Home Depot has black lava rocks, didn't see them though.
> 
> I can get in an order of 20 opae ula and 10 nerites together for about $52 shipped, not a bad deal. That, or 50 opae ulas for $70 shipped? Decisions.


 
I like the plants on the mesh. You called it SS mesh. What kind of mesh is it. Thanks


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## [email protected]

brooks54[email protected] said:


> I like the plants on the mesh. You called it SS mesh. What kind of mesh is it. Thanks


 Aaa! I should of read farther through the thread. Stainless Steel mess. I thought I saw someone state that it should not have zinc in it. Are there other mesh products that I could use that would do the same thing? New to planted tanks but love what you're doing with this one.


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## xenxes

Np  SS works well. 

Link to the mesh I got, there is no zinc coating but there is molybdenum: 



> Type 316 contains *molybdenum *for increased resistance to chemical corrosion. Basic to all filtering is the ability of the media to withhold or pass particles of a desired size in the flow path. The very fine wire mesh of this standard Stainless Steel Screening has many natural characteristics to recommend it for calendering, filtering and processing: uniformity of hole size; excellent strength to weight ratio; a large percentage of open area; superior resistance to corrosion, abrasion, vibration and temperature variations; long life; and easy cleaning. Stainless Steel Screening may also be used for electrical shielding, structural fabrication, screening, and as ventilation guards.


I did find this on Mo -- http://www.pwrc.usgs.gov/infobase/eisler/CHR_19_Molybdenum.pdf



> High bioconcentration of Mo by certain species of aquatic algae and invertebrates--up to 20 grams of Mo/kg dry weight--has been recorded without apparent harm to the accumulator.


It's safe for aquatic life.


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## xenxes

The light in this tank is awful. I added in a few crypts. The moss is too busy, I think I'm going to reorganize them into a moss wall again, soon as I find my ss meshes.










Shrimp # in here diminished, but found a really blue one:


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## diwu13

Uhoh, is the inside of that shrimp a little cloudy?


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## xenxes

That's just the saddle + too much lighting I tried to tone down. I need a better camera


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## diwu13

Oh ok. That's good ! How's this tank treating you? PITA to clean the sides down huh?


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## xenxes

Two nerites do the job, haven't cleaned it since I switched freshwater


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## xenxes

I know why I lost all my opae, the SS Mesh, that orange stuff all over them? Was rust, not algae. Salt walter + SS mesh didn't mix, despite the molybdenum. I thought about getting a moss wall back up in here, but am going to toss the mesh.


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## diwu13

Ah yea... "The chlorides in salt water cause the stainless steel and aluminum alloys that your equipment is made from to pit or to corrode". Damn.. so that was a really bad idea haha. Surprised the nerites didn't die?


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## xenxes

Better pics of shrimp:


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## xenxes

Took out most of the moss, added in some crypts instead. Did enough water changes that I think I finally got rid of the marine salt, lol. Man the glass is dirt :/


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## diwu13

So you're still gonna plastic mesh this you think?


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## xenxes

Finally got some pics of the shrimp directly under the light (Edge 1 lighting sucks)


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## diwu13

Wow! Those blue rilis so blue!


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## xenxes

I think it's just good light diffusion lol, the backdrop was black. In standard lighting they look like my second pic:


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## xenxes

Berried, berried, and berried


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## diwu13

So many berried! Really interesting how the eggs have huge variances.


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## xenxes

Tons of blues in here now, and more berried :/


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## xenxes

Crazy hard to take shrimp out of this tank.


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## xenxes

Pics kept turning out weird, these came out better:


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## acitydweller

OMG, Opae Ula are hard to come by and you have a Opae Ula party going on


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## SpecGrrl

So charming your farming!


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## diwu13

acitydweller said:


> OMG, Opae Ula are hard to come by and you have a Opae Ula party going on


Those are blue pearls. He killed off all his opaes.


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## xenxes

Pearls are palmata, these are blue n. heteropoda (derived from rilis) 

Yea I killed my opaes, might try again some day if I can find better brackish plants.


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## xenxes

A sea of blue/green rilis 


















Pics actually came out good, correct contrast. Lighting in this tank is so dim they usually get overexposed.


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## Monster Fish

I think I'm going to have to convert my opae ula tank into a freshwater neo tank as well.


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## diwu13

Monster Fish said:


> I think I'm going to have to convert my opae ula tank into a freshwater neo tank as well.


Why, what happened?


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## Monster Fish

diwu13 said:


> Why, what happened?


I bought some black lava rock to do some rescaping, and when I removed the algae and the small lava rocks, I only found 8 opaes surviving in the tank. Not sure why most of them died, but the MTS did a good job of cleaning up the bodies. I think they didn't get enough biofilm since hair algae was smothering everything and a pair of olive nerites demolished any and all green dust algae that grew. Right now the tank is being soaked with H2O2 to kill off any remaining hair algae. The opae's are in a jar with the nerites.


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## xenxes

Noooo  that sucks. For me it was just really hard to maintain salinity at a certain level. I think I would have had better luck keeping it in freshwater (well, and not having "stainless" steel in salt water), but I did want to breed opaes.

I think when I revisit opaes again I'll do a riparium setup with really high lighting so I can grow some mangrove plants, I think the extended root system will harbor enough food for them to graze on, and outcompete any algae.


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## Monster Fish

Yeah. The hair algae did a good job of keeping the tank clean, probably too good of a job since other types of algae didn't grow. Whatever did grow was demolished by my nerites.


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## diwu13

That's really interesting MonsterFish. I guess if you smother the light then biofilm won't grow in the depths, but it should still grow a lot over the hair algae. Did you ever feed the tank or you just assumed they could sustain off the hair algae?


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## xenxes

Took this out of storage also, restart










Used a mulch heavy soil, heavily tannic. Threw in random stems from the 90g.


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## JoseGraciani

You don't have to grow algae. Are you talking about a biofilm?


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