# First planted tank turning into disaster. Why?



## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Lower the lighting period to maybe 8 hours or fewer. Dose excel as recommended.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

clwatkins10 said:


> Lower the lighting period to maybe 8 hours or fewer. Dose excel as recommended.


x2 :icon_wink


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## Crystalview (Aug 10, 2007)

I use Excel and my Discus are fine and they would be the first to tell me if there is a problem, for they can be picky about their water. The only plant that I know that may be sensitive to excel is cyrpts. Put a capful of excel in the out flow of your filter stream to distribute it faster. Do you know what kind of Algae you have? Here are a couple of sites that could help? Do you vac the bottom of the tank? How often do you do water changes? Do you have pics of the algae. I know my tank just went through a cycle failure and got algae which I am now just getting rid of.

http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/algae.htm
http://www.gwapa.org/articles/algae/


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## seAdams (Jun 2, 2008)

From reading the descriptions, it looks like BGA.

That makes sense, as I did have a problem with my filter not long ago. I'll follow the recommendations in that article.

Thanks a lot!


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## confuted (Jan 31, 2007)

Chances are, your nitrates are also low. Have you considered fertilizing?


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## discuscardscorys (Jul 29, 2008)

i have been having issues with BGA recently and after reading doubled my KNO3 dosing
After a couple days the stuff is just about gone (you can get a pound for $3 from aquariumfertalizers.com


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Have read squirting excel on the leaves with the filter off helps.


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## seAdams (Jun 2, 2008)

> Have you considered fertilizing?


Will do a big wc today and start dosing regularly.

Thanks for all the tips.


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## die2win (Aug 10, 2008)

lauraleellbp said:


> x2 :icon_wink


X3 lower the lighting period and add Co2 :fish:


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## discuscardscorys (Jul 29, 2008)

co2 can cause problems too


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## Crystalview (Aug 10, 2007)

Do you know how to dose a tank? Say using EI and excel or other seachem products? If you plant are really bad off I would cover the tank for 3 days (total Black out) The fish will be fine. If you want to keep plants without CO2 for now you will need Seachem flourish and excel. You can change to cheaper dry fertz once you learn more. After the black out I would do a deep vac wipe down the wall and any equipment, ornaments and do a 50% water change. 
You could add CO2 but that will take time and I know my learning curve is slow when you have to fuss with new things. If this is what you want you will have to post you want CO2. My tank is Med light with Seachems plant products till I figure out EI dosing.
Some have done a water change and them added 3x the amount of excel on the bottle for several days. This will kill the algae. Swords are not fond of extra excel so you will have to decide what you want to loose to get your tank in order.
When mine got brown algae (diatoms) I used a phosphate/ silicate remover in my canister for a few weeks. X my finger but I have not gotten any other algae but some GSA.
Do you have a guarantee tank you could move the fish to if you wanted to do a tear down? I always treat my new plants with Potassium permanganate ("clear water" in LFS) a short soak will kill all bacteria and algae. I do this with Alum to kill snails and their eggs for 3-4 days 
Hope some of this helps.


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## waterfaller1 (Jul 5, 2006)

...........sorry, wrong post


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Have read that some loose a lot of plants from a blackout. 

Have seen tanks that have a lot of algae but the plants otherwise have great color. Aron T at aquaticplantcentral.com had this and simple waited for it to balance out since it was newly setup. 

From this I gather it is best to dose with flourish excel and correct the imbalance. If the plants coloration gets worse then do the blackout. If that doesn't work then do bleach dip of plants out of the tank.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/plants/68294-bleaching-anubias-kill-bba-do-i.html​


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

die2win said:


> X3 lower the lighting period and add Co2 :fish:


x4. Run DIY CO2 if possible through the intake of your filter. You'll need to modify it to prevent the filter from outgassing CO2 though.

I hope your lighting is around 6-8 hours now instead of the 10 hours it used to be.

If it's BBA (black brush algae), you can turn off the filter and spot treat it with H2O2 or Excel in the tank. Otherwise, a bleach dip like someone else mentioned will work...just be careful what you bleach-dip. 

Good luck!


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## seAdams (Jun 2, 2008)

I dosed with Excel, cleaned the tank and have shortened the lighting period.

No new algae has appeared that I can see, although there is still some on my fine-leaved plants. I really wanted to keep this tank low tech and that's why no cO2.



> Some have done a water change and them added 3x the amount of excel on the bottle for several days.


I can do that too. Sorry to sound like a doubter, but you're sure this wont' harm my fish? In addition to my Gertrudae, I also have a very small (2") albino bristlenose in there.

I appreciate all the help!


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

I can do that too. Sorry to sound like a doubter, but you're sure this wont' harm my fish? In addition to my Gertrudae, I also have a very small (2") albino bristlenose in there.

At least you are not impulsive.

I have seen only 1 post where someone said it can affect the fish. Possible fish that don't adapt to changes like rams. I believe bristlenose are hardy fish. What is Gertrudae.

Have you tried squirting some on the plants affected with the filter off? You can use a baby's item like a syringe, which cost $2. at Wall-Mart, a department store.


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## seAdams (Jun 2, 2008)

Pseudomugil Gertrudae are very tiny Dwarf Rainbow fish - less than 1". 

I do have syringes I use to feed them. I'll try squirting the Excel on affected plants!


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

I have never seen this fish, Pseudomugil Gertrudae. What an amazing and beautiful fish. Is it a jumper? Where did you find it? How much did it cost? How many do you have?


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Hilde said:


> I have never seen this fish, Pseudomugil Gertrudae. What an amazing and beautiful fish. Is it a jumper? Where did you find it? How much did it cost? How many do you have?


They're pretty common at some LFS around where I am. Their common name is "Gertrude's Rainbow". They're usually a few dollars each, not more than $3-4. milialic @ InvertzFactory (site sponsor) used to carry them, if I'm not mistaken. (Or maybe I'm thinking about the furcata rainbows). In any case, you can contact him and see if he can bring some more in.


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## h2osanity (Sep 19, 2008)

You can also spot treat with hydrogen peroxide unless you have inverts (ie: nerites or shrimp) I have both and still treat with peroxide just sparingly and very precisely. I have yet to have a fatality with it.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Saw 1 post where peroxide and flourish excel were used. The peroxide did not work as well as the flourish excel.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Pseudomugil gertrudae are found in small creeks, lagoons, billabongs, swamps and rainforest streams, often associated with dense aquatic vegetation.
 
This sounds like a hardy fish. 

To be 100% that fish aren't affected by algae allimination methods you can take your fish out. You are almost through, though. Just correct the imbalance and all will okay.

Test your nitrates
Read that BBA Thrives in situations of high phosphates and low nitrates. Nitrate maintain 20-30ppm, which is why KNO3 helps. 

 Test your co2. 
 morning best time to test, the CO2 at its highest and pH at the lowest.


take a cup of water out of the aquarium
test pH 
add an air stone to the cup of water
After 10 -15 min. take another pH reading. the difference is the amount of CO2 you have. If no change filter or an air stone is driving off all the surplus CO2 or not enough plants or ph is to high
Graph for Co2
http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/kh-ph-co2-chart.html


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## seAdams (Jun 2, 2008)

The algae is Blue-green. Is treatment the same as for other types?

Should I still do the cO2 test? Wow, I'm learning a lot here for sure.



> _I have never seen this fish, Pseudomugil Gertrudae. What an amazing and beautiful fish. Is it a jumper? Where did you find it? How much did it cost? How many do you have?_


I have 9 of them, and yes they're totally beautiful and amazing. Mine have never jumped. They spend most of their time courting and the males display all the time to each other, looking like tiny little butterflies.

Mine were 6/9$, but the guy threw in a few extras for free. They're the reason for my wanting my first real planted tank.

You can see them in full display on different sites, but here's one of mine semi-displaying:


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

All these abbreviations are confusing. I thought we were talking about that terrible brush algae, which destroyed all of my plants except for Java fern. This is not the same as blue green algae. Blue green algae is a bacteria.

I have been having issues with BGA recently and after reading doubled my KNO3 dosing
discuscardscorys Planted tank


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## h2osanity (Sep 19, 2008)

Peroxide is not as effective as Excel but it is *safer* for your fish. When in doubt, go for a safer, slower solution than a fast, unknown result.

I found that the peroxide would damage the algae enough that the fish and clean up crew would then come in and finish it off.

I have had really bad luck with Excel...corys, kuhliis, knife fish, otos..all find Excel hard on the system. I have had fatalities especially with corys just 2x
doses.


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## seAdams (Jun 2, 2008)

Are we talking about the common Hydrogen peroxide from the pharmacy?

How much would I use for 10 gallons? Do I squirt it directly on the plants with a syringe?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

seAdams said:


> Are we talking about the common Hydrogen peroxide from the pharmacy?
> 
> How much would I use for 10 gallons? Do I squirt it directly on the plants with a syringe?


http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/plants/Podio_Algae_Hydrogen_Peroxide.html

http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/algae_peroxide.html


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## seAdams (Jun 2, 2008)

Thanks for the great links!:thumbsup:


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## h2osanity (Sep 19, 2008)

Thanks for posting those links! It is great to have corroboration.
Yes, just from the pharmacy, you can also use the new "green" peroxide "bleaches" that some stores carry but I would be wary of additives and they are double the strength. 

I use a 5 ml dosing syringe (comes with kid meds) and a everyday drinking straw to direct the dose. Turn off the flow from the filter for about 30 seconds and you will see instant bubbles from the algae. Turn the filter flow back on and voila! Done. You may find the fish play in the bubbles too. Mine do, crazy things. If you have otos, corys, shrimp or livebearers of most types, they will zoom in later and start eating the damaged algae (it turns red or white).


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## waterdog1 (Jan 12, 2005)

I think your problem is that most of the plants you chose are slow growing species. For new tanks you need fast growing plants, preferably species that can take up nutrients from the water. Search the web, there are lots. The species you list are almost stereotypical slow growers that could never complete with algae alone.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Have you tried adding some Egeria densa(Anacharis). This plant is a floater that can be planted. I have found it at Petsmart. It is a great for absorbing toxins.

Anything new? Haven't seen a post by you since Sept. What happened with the aquarium?


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## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

waterdog1 said:


> I think your problem is that most of the plants you chose are slow growing species. For new tanks you need fast growing plants, preferably species that can take up nutrients from the water. Search the web, there are lots. The species you list are almost stereotypical slow growers that could never complete with algae alone.


Agreed, had similiar issues with a 10 gallon until I lowered the lighing from 30 watts to 20 watts, 8 hours and added some riccia which totally got out of hand, but on the plus appeared to help rebalance the tank, and the algae began to recede. 

Add fast growing stem plants like: hygrophila difformis and bacopa and some floaters like Duckweed. Yeah it is a weed and a PITA but probably one of the best floating plants to rebalance a tank and tilt the balance in the favor of plant growth vs algae growth. Of course you have to ensure that you follow a good fert dosing regime as the fast growers and floaters may make heavy demands on nutrients such as nitrates leading to possible shortages and deficiencies. It is a double edged sword. 

Blue Green Algae is not really algae but a type of bacteria. There are many theories as to why it appears and how best to treat it. Some have success eradicating, others continue to live the nightmare of BGA despite all measures. It is pretty much hit and miss. I only saw it in my severly ovestocked 10 gallon when I had 30 watts lighting. Dosing Erythromycin got rid of it and it never returned. I have never seen(knock on wood) in my understocked low light tanks. That leads me to believe that in some cases ovestocking(heavy dissolved organic waste) and high light may work together to create conditions suitable for the formation of BGA. I am just speculating here and have no hard scientific evidence to prove this.


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## planx (Dec 28, 2008)

The easy way of getting rid of algae is raising the height of the light (2-6) inches so that less light goes into the tank. With smaller tanks, it is hard keep everything in balance. I am thinking you have too much light.


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