# Low Tech startup



## Fish on Fire (Sep 18, 2007)

Ok, I am going to be starting up my own low-tech setup with a tank that'll range from 10 to 30 gallons. I plan to go without CO2, medium lighting (about 2-3 watts per gallon), and the eventual inhabitants will include a school of 5-7 galaxy rasbora, 5-7 rummy nose tetras (or substitute with 5-7 Gertrude's Rainbowfish), and 5-7 scarlet badis.

For the substrate I plan on going with: Either Eco Complete or Floride black sand substrate or a mixture of both.

Plants (front/lawn plant): HEMIANTHUS MICRANTHEMOIDES and Christmas moss combination.

Plants (background): still deciding upon this.

I also plan to have a few pieces of drift wood with plants already carpeting them, placed in the aquarium as well as a small rock formation. I plan to cover at least 60% of the tank floor with plants from the start.

Can you guys give me some input on whether or not it would be a good idea to have some of these things and what to replace it with? Also, can someone give me a great idea for a good background plant? :help:


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

It all depends on what tank you go with since a 30gal tank would be 2x as high as a 10gal. :icon_smil

I'd plan to stick with low light if you don't plan on using CO2, though.


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## Fish on Fire (Sep 18, 2007)

lauraleellbp said:


> It all depends on what tank you go with since a 30gal tank would be 2x as high as a 10gal. :icon_smil
> 
> I'd plan to stick with low light if you don't plan on using CO2, though.


What would you suggest as a background plant?


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## PinoyBoy (Mar 14, 2008)

Java fern gets pretty large, and it's low tech. Or you can try a crypt of somekind, some of them looks large enough to be a good background plant. Worse comes to worst, moss wall. Nothing wrong with them, it's just that it seems hard to pull off a moss wall that looks perfect.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Fish on Fire said:


> What would you suggest as a background plant?


For what size tank, with what lighting over it?

I think you need to pick out those 2 things before plant recommendations can make much sense.


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## Fish on Fire (Sep 18, 2007)

lauraleellbp said:


> For what size tank, with what lighting over it?
> 
> I think you need to pick out those 2 things before plant recommendations can make much sense.


What if I just bought this setup?

http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3623645#prodTab1


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

You'll need to either add CO2 (for a medium light tank) or raise that light fixture up off the tank 4-6" (for a low light tank).

Good background plants for a low tech tank that size would include some of the taller Crypts (C. balansae, retrospiralis, wendtii, etc), Corkscrew or Italian Val, or stems like Hygrophilas, Bacopas, Rotala rotundifolia.

If you went with a CO2-injected medium light setup the list of potential background plants will increase.

Your hardscape should also influence your plant selections.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Fish on Fire said:


> What if I just bought this setup?
> http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3623645#prodTab1


What a deal! Most of the tanks just come with T8 light that doesn't grow much. A decent light is at least $60.


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## Fish on Fire (Sep 18, 2007)

Ok, I ended up getting a 36 gallon bowl front setup instead. This will allow me to keep more fish than I initially planned to, hehe. Might even get a discus or three just to grow out and see.  But yeah, the lights on this one is only 20 watts which makes it not so great for growing plants but in a low tech setup that should be fine right? Which plants should I go with now? Would the Hemianthus and Christmas moss still be feasible as foreground plants?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Nope, that's probably a T8 bulb with a poor or no reflector, so you'll pretty much be limited to Java ferns, Anubias, and mosses. You probably couldn't get a carpet going with any plant, much less HM.

You'll need to replace the light fixture if you want to grow more plants.


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## Fish on Fire (Sep 18, 2007)

lauraleellbp said:


> Nope, that's probably a T8 bulb with a poor or no reflector, so you'll pretty much be limited to Java ferns, Anubias, and mosses. You probably couldn't get a carpet going with any plant, much less HM.
> 
> You'll need to replace the light fixture if you want to grow more plants.


Ok, so I ordered a 45 Watt light fixture online and also a bottle of Flourish Excel. Is that a good start? I haven't gotten any of the plants yet nor even added water or substrate to the tank yet.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

What fixture did you get?

And yes, Excel is great to keep on hand for plants.


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## Fish on Fire (Sep 18, 2007)

lauraleellbp said:


> What fixture did you get?
> 
> And yes, Excel is great to keep on hand for plants.


Nvm, just a replacement bulb. And it's 75W, not 45. I bought this one: http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+10099+3805&pcatid=3805


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

That bulb isn't going to work.

It's a T12 so is worse lighting than the T8 you started with (the larger the bulb diameter the less efficient it is), plus it's actinic so won't support FW plant growth.

With flourescent tube fixtures, it's the ballast that determines bulb output- so even if that bulb did fit into your fixture (which I don't think it will since the diameters are so different) your ballast is still only going to pump 20 watts into that bulb. You have to upgrade your entire fixture (or at least buy a new ballast) if you want to increase the light output, you can't just change the bulb.


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## Fish on Fire (Sep 18, 2007)

lauraleellbp said:


> That bulb isn't going to work.
> 
> It's a T12 so is worse lighting than the T8 you started with (the larger the bulb diameter the less efficient it is), plus it's actinic so won't support FW plant growth.
> 
> With flourescent tube fixtures, it's the ballast that determines bulb output- so even if that bulb did fit into your fixture (which I don't think it will since the diameters are so different) your ballast is still only going to pump 20 watts into that bulb. You have to upgrade your entire fixture (or at least buy a new ballast) if you want to increase the light output, you can't just change the bulb.


:icon_neut I feel like such a noob right now . . . lol. Ok, so I looked at the light fixtures they had available and they are quite expensive, lol. Any suggestions? Otherwise I might just try to go with a semi moss carpet and grow ferns and anubias, let me see if I can draw up what I am planning.


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## Fish on Fire (Sep 18, 2007)

Ok, how about this item? http://www.aquariumguys.com/current-nova-extreme-freshwater30.html It's a t5 thing.


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## Hyzer (Mar 9, 2010)

If you do not plan on going pressurized CO2, do not get a T5HO.


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## Fish on Fire (Sep 18, 2007)

Hyzer said:


> If you do not plan on going pressurized CO2, do not get a T5HO.


Ok, but would my tank light be fine? Or can I just buy a regular lamp to supplement the lighting? If I can, should it be an LED, Halogen, or regular lamp?


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## Fish on Fire (Sep 18, 2007)

Alright, I think I'm going to go with tons of mosses and also Java Ferns. Hope they work out fine in the .7W per gallon lighting. XP


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Cheapest thing is to do what Hyzer did.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Fish on Fire said:


> Alright, I think I'm going to go with tons of mosses and also Java Ferns. Hope they work out fine in the .7W per gallon lighting. XP


That is cheaper in the long run but the plants grow very slow. I have gotten a Java fern on Ebay for aquatic majic that was as big as 2 plants. Just ordering on Ebay is best when to do in the fall.


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## Fish on Fire (Sep 18, 2007)

Ok, so this would work then? It is within my price range at least, haha.

http://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-High-Performance-Light-Reflector/dp/B000UU4MIQ


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Fish on Fire said:


> Ok, so this would work then? It is within my price range at least, haha.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-High-Performance-Light-Reflector/dp/B000UU4MIQ


I think with this one you would need to inject Co2. With the 2ft one, which is what Hyzer uses, though you probably wouldn't. Note he has it risen 8 in from the top. Also this light doesn't have the spectrums needed for plants with orange or red colors. This bulb will allow you to grow plants with colors. Also you need to find out the wattage so as to find out where you are going to buy replacement bulbs. I found at Home Depot that the wattage determines the length. I saw a T5 fixture with bulb F14T5. The only bulbs close to it were F13T5, which were 1/2in to short.


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## Fish on Fire (Sep 18, 2007)

Hilde said:


> I think with this one you would need to inject Co2. With the 2ft one, which is what Hyzer uses, though you probably wouldn't. Note he has it risen 8 in from the top.


Ok, I just bought the 2 foot one and I don't think I'll be able to hang it. I'm going to use a screen to dim the lighting a bit if I need to.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Fish on Fire said:


> Ok, I just bought the 2 foot one and I don't think I'll be able to hang it. I'm going to use a screen to dim the lighting a bit if I need to.


Yeh, but then the light won't cover the whole tank. When it is raised the light spreads. If you can't hang it from the ceiling how about the wall?


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Fish on Fire said:


> Ok, I ended up getting a 36 gallon bowl.


Did you get this from Petco? Have you set it up yet? Have you checked out craigslist in your area? Just seems you could have spent less on the tank and more on the light if you had found a used tank.


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## Fish on Fire (Sep 18, 2007)

Hilde said:


> Did you get this from Petco? Have you set it up yet? Have you checked out craigslist in your area? Just seems you could have spent less on the tank and more on the light if you had found a used tank.


Yeah, only problem is no one is willing to deliver and I don't have a car.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Fish on Fire said:


> Yeah, only problem is no one is willing to deliver and I don't have a car.


Oh, yes I know how that is. Hoppy made an light incasement and hung the light fixture on the wall, perhaps you can do something similar. If not you may have some shaded areas. The idea of screen is a good idea. For I was told the screen tops for aquariums block a lot of light. Here is my tank 30L x 18H x 12 with a 21in PC bulb and 24in T8 bulb 24in. You see there is some shade, particularily on the left.


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## Fish on Fire (Sep 18, 2007)

Hilde said:


> Oh, yes I know how that is. Hoppy made an light incasement and hung the light fixture on the wall, perhaps you can do something similar. If not you may have some shaded areas. The idea of screen is a good idea. For I was told the screen tops for aquariums block a lot of light. Here is my tank 30L x 18H x 12 with a 21in PC bulb and 24in T8 bulb 24in. You see there is some shade, particularily on the left.


That's fine if there is some shade, my scaping is going to end up having a sandy area towards the front and to the left of the tank, angling up to the right corner.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Fish on Fire said:


> My scaping is going to end up having a sandy area towards the front and to the left of the tank, angling up to the right corner.


Can't wait to see it! For see I love the use of sand.


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## Fish on Fire (Sep 18, 2007)

Hilde said:


> Can't wait to see it! For see I love the use of sand.


Currently in the tank I have lain down the florite substrate, piling it on towards the back with a larger hill on the right, gonna use a rock to help hold it up on that side when I add water. I put black sand substrate over the top of the florite for aesthetic reasons, I'm hoping that the layer will remain after adding water, haha. I'm planning to add a some trace white sand to the tank to make it look kinda like it's frosted with a white sand bed towards the front left of the tank. Plants will be in the background.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Fish on Fire said:


> I put black sand substrate over the top of the fluorite for aesthetic reasons, I'm hoping that the layer will remain after adding water, haha. I'm planning to add a some trace white sand to the tank to make it look kinda like it's frosted with a white sand bed towards the front left of the tank. Plants will be in the background.


According to killacross whenever you mix two materials of different diameters...there will ALWAYS be some mixing and settling
aka the Brazil Nut Effect
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil_nut_effect

To keep the white sand bed separate probably best to use flash guards, in the gutter's area of hardware store, which are 3 x 5 pieces of metal.

Is this what you are trying to do?


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