# PPS-Pro with low tech.



## Sondra.mh (Aug 6, 2015)

Just having a look at starting PPS-Pro instead of using Seachem NPK. With low tech do I still follow the same dosing amount that the calculator says (link below) every day or do I need to do a lower dose less often?
https://sites.google.com/site/aquaticplantfertilizer/home/pps-pro


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## MarathonFish (Mar 1, 2015)

I had the same question as I'm running a more low tech too. I emailed green leaf and they responded the same day and said the PPS would work great and said to follow normal dosing but that I should see what works best for my tank, my order hasn't come in yet so I haven't played around with it yet. Hopefully it works good but any questions forward to them they were very helpful


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## AdamTill (Jan 22, 2015)

Depends a lot on plant mass. Nitrates went through the roof on one of my tanks when I used at full strength, and on my 90 I dose 4ml/day instead of 9ml/day for the same reason.


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## farrenator (May 11, 2011)

PPS Pro will give you a good starting point. As was stated, your fert regimen is going to depend on how much plant mass you have and dhow fast it is growing. Since you are going low tech then your plants probably aren't going to be growing too fast and that is good, because it means that your plant mass will be stable - which means that once you figure out how much fertilizer they need, that value won't vary too much too fast because of increasing biomass. All that being said - get yourself a new test kit and monitor the fert levels in your tank every week or so and adjust your fert values from there to achieve what you need. Every tank is different due to local water quality, how many fish you have, how many plants you have and whether they are fast growing or slow growing. It may take some work in the beginning until you figure out what your tank needs.


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## Sondra.mh (Aug 6, 2015)

I don't really have many plants in this tank. May start at half or a quarter dose and see how I go.


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## josephla (Mar 4, 2016)

@Sondra.mh because of the lack of plant mass, i would definitely start off with 1/4 dose first, and then monitor your levels/nutrient uptake for a few weeks. if it isn't in the desired range, decrease or increase as needed. it's better to lack nutrients than have too much without the plant mass to use it all and open the door to all sorts of algae issues. are you using co2?


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## Sondra.mh (Aug 6, 2015)

Nope no co2


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## josephla (Mar 4, 2016)

okay, so because the plants will not be fueled by co2, their nutrient appetite will not be as high and they will not take up nutrients as quickly as they would if you were running co2. so yes, definitely start small. hope that helps!


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## Sondra.mh (Aug 6, 2015)

I wonder if I should just stick with seachem but this would be cheaper plus planning a 20 liter with more plant mass. Thank you for the help everyone.

This is the tank by the way just to give an idea on the plant mass


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## AdamTill (Jan 22, 2015)

Honestly might not even go quarter dose there, that's not a lot of plant mass right now.


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## farrenator (May 11, 2011)

I am with Adam. You may not need to dose at all for a while. Spend the $$ on a test kit. They aren't super accurate but they do give you a general idea. That and observation are good guides. Also, aren't turtles pretty messy - as in they poop a lot? That turtle may provide all the nitrogen the plants need so you may just have to supplement with P and K along with some micros every once in a long while.


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

Sondra.mh said:


>


 Nice,
I see a turtle and 5 stems.

Because the turtle creates tons of waste you need to do large water changes to keep the pollutants down. How much and how often do you do the water changes?

Bump:


MarathonFish said:


> I had the same question as I'm running a more low tech too. I emailed green leaf and they responded the same day and said the PPS would work great and said to follow normal dosing but that I should see what works best for my tank, my order hasn't come in yet so I haven't played around with it yet. Hopefully it works good but any questions forward to them they were very helpful


Do you use CO2?


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## Sondra.mh (Aug 6, 2015)

There is the Elodea on the left, Hairgrass in the middle-ish, And Vallisneria on the right. The Vall sends out runners but stay small, that is why I started dosing flourish and NPK. I skip the nitrogen as my nitrates are high and I get brown algae on the glass which I heard was from high nitrates. 
I do 25% water change weekly, sometimes fortnightly.


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

Sondra.mh said:


> ... I do 25% water change weekly, sometimes fortnightly.


 Hi
The turtle must have a place to get dry and warm. It is not a fish. You know it will grow 30cm diameter. Also, turtles love raw chicken cut to small portions.

The water changes are critical with nitrogen factories turtles. You will need to monitor NO3 and possibly increase water changes if NO3 is over 20 – 30 ppm. This NO3 is slimy waste that is not fully available to plants without massive biological filtration. 

I would add a balanced fertilizer to every water change. No daily dosing. This way you are sure plants are getting everything they need and the turtle has clean environment. For example, if you change 40L then add PPS-Pro solution #1 macros 10 ml and solution #2 micros 1 ml or 20 drops. 

Solution #1 macros 1 ml per gallon or 4L
Solution #2 micros 0.1 ml or 2 drops per gallon or 4L

This makes 10 ppm NO3, 1 ppm PO4, 13 ppm K, 1 ppm Mg, 0.1 ppm Fe(TE).

The fertilizer quantity follows the amount of water that is being changed. I think this is the easiest way to maintain your turtle world.
How many hours is your light on? Average is eight hours.

Edit: Maybe better to use PPS-Pro #1 macros NO3 Free solution instead, as Maryland Guppy suggested. This makes 0 ppm NO3, 1 ppm PO4, 13 ppm K, 1 ppm Mg, 0.1 ppm Fe(TE).


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## Sondra.mh (Aug 6, 2015)

I know how to take care of turtles. I am in regular contact with breeders and keepers that have had over 30 years experience with Australian freshwater turtles. 

The basking dock is on the left above the Elodea. Also not recommended (at least for Australian turtles) to feed 'human' foods. They get fed whole fish, soaked prawns, crickets. A lot more different natural things to feed but these are my turtles regular diet. 

Turtles here can stand Nitrate levels up to 80ppm. Of course you obviously don't want it that high but that is what they are able to stand. 

I know how big they grow which is why I upgrade tank as needed. I started with a 2.5 foot tank before upgrading to this 4 foot. Will then upgrade to 5x2 or 6x2 next. Then either a even bigger tank after that or a pond. 

I thought daily would be too much for low tech. Currently when I dose the NPK and Flourish I dose NPK once a week, after water change if I do it.(water change/top up day is Sunday) Flourish at same time and again on Wednesday or Thursday.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Just thought to make a suggestion here.
For those with high bioload/nitrate levels.
A great solution is to mix a bottle of NF PPS Classic solution.
Being "Nitrate Free" it will not contribute to high nitrate levels.


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

The solutions for Classic system are designed for different purpose so the ratios and concentrations are not the same as for Pro. You get better results with Pro NO3 Free solution. 

PPS-Pro #1 macros NO3 Free, 0 ppm NO3, 0.1 ppm PO4, 1 ppm K, 0.1 ppm Mg
Daily dose 1ml per 10 gallon or 40L
500 ml
40 g K2SO4 
0 g KNO3 
3 g KH2PO4
20 g MgSO4

original
PPS-Pro #1 macros, 1 ppm NO3, 0.1 ppm PO4, 1.33 ppm K, 0.1 ppm Mg
Daily dose 1ml per 10 gallon or 40L
500 ml
29 g K2SO4 
33 g KNO3 
3 g KH2PO4
20 g MgSO4

I added the original for comparison. Both have the same solubility.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Edward said:


> You get better results with Pro NO3 Free solution.
> 
> PPS-Pro #1 macros NO3 Free, 0 ppm NO3, 0.1 ppm PO4, 1 ppm K, 0.1 ppm Mg
> Daily dose 1ml per 10 gallon or 40L
> ...


Are the solutions on your site?


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Are the solutions on your site?


Hi,
The original is there. 
I am not sure if adding the other recipes is a good idea, don’t want to confuse readers. What do you think?


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## CowBoYReX (Nov 30, 2013)

Am I crazy or am I the only one that sees two turtles and a large floating dock that could easily fit both?


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

I personally have great respect for your site.
I never wished to perform EI dosing, I felt it was too much.

Toxicity has been discussed at a rampant pace here.

IMO I say post it on your site, I feel it is needed by many.

Too many times individuals purchase a two bottle fert solution and roll with it.
Shortly thereafter NO3 has skyrocketed and is through the roof.
Until now my only recommendation has been a NF Classic solution.
The nitrate free solution seems to be misunderstood by many though.

Your site has a valuable amount of information.
Problem is people do not read it through.


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## Sondra.mh (Aug 6, 2015)

Ive been doing some reading on dosing low tech and was thinking maybe I would be better off with EI instead so I can leave out N03 since there is plenty with the turtles? I read a post with suggestions for someones 40 gallon low tech and then I halved that amount because of my small plant mass. 

1/4 tsp KN03 1x a week
1/16 tsp KH2P04 1x a week
1/16 (5ml) Trace Elements 1x a week
50% weekly water change

or 

1/8 tsp KN03 2x a week
1/32 tsp KH2P04 2x a week
1/32 (2.5ml) trace elements 2x a week
50% weekly water change

Would this work and then not dose KN03 if I don't need more nitrates?

Bump:


CowBoYReX said:


> Am I crazy or am I the only one that sees two turtles and a large floating dock that could easily fit both?


Medium sized floating dock with 2 turtles. They both fit on perfectly but still like to sit on top of each other.


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

Maryland Guppy said:


> I personally have great respect for your site.
> I never wished to perform EI dosing, I felt it was too much.
> 
> Toxicity has been discussed at a rampant pace here.
> ...


Thank you for your kind words.
The NO3 Free solution is now in the “NO3 too low/ high” section. 
Thank you for the advice,
Edward


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

@Edward

Feel free to share any other recipe modifications.
Or any other great hidden info.

Sorry to hijack here.

Back to the turtles.
You may not need any KNO3 dosing.
Many claim a ratio of 10:1 KNO3O4


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## Sondra.mh (Aug 6, 2015)

Maryland Guppy said:


> @*Edward*
> 
> Feel free to share any other recipe modifications.
> Or any other great hidden info.
> ...


All good. Gives me something to read up on too. 
Yeah I don't dose the Seachem nitrogen. My potassium and phosphorus bottles are almost finished but nitrogen is still full. 
So do you think that the dosing for the KH2P04 and trace would be enough then if I where to go the EI?


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