# Kessil A80 Tuna Sun



## bleumoon

Anyone get these yet? I like how there is no fan and they're silent. I was thinking about running two of these on a 40 breeder with mainly monte carlo in a mountain scape. Think they will be enough light at full blast? They said something about being half of a kessil a160 so I would assume it should be bright enough.


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## jeffkrol

@ 15W doubt if they will cover a 40b sufficiently for any higher light demanding plants... Even 2..

Besides AFAICT these are still reef-centric.


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## charlie 1

bleumoon said:


> Anyone get these yet? I like how there is no fan and they're silent. I was thinking about running two of these on a 40 breeder with mainly monte carlo in a mountain scape. Think they will be enough light at full blast? They said something about being half of a kessil a160 so I would assume it should be bright enough.


Given the 40 B is a shallow tank and more so with substrate, i see no issue with brightness,2 would be more than enough for the 36 inch length of the tank.
I`m patiently waiting for it`s release in Canada.
Regards


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## jeffkrol

charlie 1 said:


> Given the 40 B is a shallow tank and more so with substrate, i see no issue with brightness,2 would be more than enough for the 36 inch length of the tank.
> I`m patiently waiting for it`s release in Canada.
> Regards


Kessil LED Lights

Use the calculator and this is based on a A150....
Even divide by 1/2 for plant uses...


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## charlie 1

jeffkrol said:


> Kessil LED Lights
> 
> Use the calculator and this is based on a A150....
> Even divide by 1/2 for plant uses...


 When i get mine , i will post a picture of what it can do for plants .. proof is in the pudding .


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## bleumoon

Yeah 15w is definitely something to think about. If anyone is running a kessil a160 half blast in a similar sized tank, let us know what you think.

In the reef builders you tube video it looks pretty bright (tuna blue) and there's only 3 on what looks like a 180g FO tank. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_jl6O2LhOo&t=203s


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## jeffkrol

bleumoon said:


> Yeah 15w is definitely something to think about. If anyone is running a kessil a160 half blast in a similar sized tank, let us know what you think.
> 
> In the reef builders you tube video it looks pretty bright (tuna blue) and there's only 3 on what looks like a 180g FO tank. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_jl6O2LhOo&t=203s


Keep in mind the height from the light to substate..











https://reefbuilders.com/2016/09/08/kessil-a80-led-tuna-blue/#

7(overlap for height off water)+16- substrate(assume 2")= 21" height for 15W of LED..

Again not saying it won't "work" but I am saying PAR will be nothing special..

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=35450

backordered but $50 gift card..


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## gus6464

I have two tuna suns coming for my 60P. I have seen them in action at macna and it is nothing like the A160. It has the new hybrid optic/reflector found on the AP700. The reflector they use is pretty big. For a 40B I would put 3 units.

If you have a tank shorter than 18" then you can do high tech no problem. Anything taller and you are looking at med/low tech.


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## jeffkrol

gus6464 said:


> I have two tuna suns coming for my 60P. I have seen them in action at macna and it is nothing like the A160. It has the new hybrid optic/reflector found on the AP700. The reflector they use is pretty big. For a 40B I would put 3 units.
> 
> If you have a tank shorter than 18" then you can do high tech no problem. Anything taller and you are looking at med/low tech.


effective beam angle is around 110 degrees..


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## charlie 1

gus6464 said:


> I have two tuna suns coming for my 60P. I have seen them in action at macna and it is nothing like the A160. It has the new hybrid optic/reflector found on the AP700. The reflector they use is pretty big. For a 40B I would put 3 units.
> 
> If you have a tank shorter than 18" then you can do high tech no problem. Anything taller and you are looking at med/low tech.


A typical *40B* is 36 x 18 x *17 H* assume 2 inches of substrate = *15 inches H*


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## shreeemp

I saw my Lfs using 1 Tuna Sun over a 60 gallon planted shrimp tank. It was pretty dense (though I couldn't name a lot of the plants in their).. I could take a photo if you want.


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## charlie 1

bleumoon said:


> Yeah 15w is definitely something to think about. If anyone is running a kessil a160 half blast in a similar sized tank, let us know what you think.
> 
> In the reef builders you tube video it looks pretty bright (tuna blue) and there's only 3 on what looks like a 180g FO tank. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_jl6O2LhOo&t=203s


I runt he A160 on a 60P ( not 36 inches but 24 inches) but the light sits 19 inches above the substrate at approx 40% , i grow Eleocharis acicularis 'mini' , Staurogyne repens & oh red plant ( Ludwigia red sp.) that the Kessil Tuna sun supposedly can`t grow :smile2: .








Regards


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## jsarrow

Neptune Aquatics in San Jose has an A80 Tuna Sun over an 18x18x18 planted tank and it looks bright enough to grow anything; I don't think this was at 100% either as I fiddled with the output knob and it went a bit brighter. See picture.


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## charlie 1

jsarrow said:


> Neptune Aquatics in San Jose has an A80 Tuna Sun over an 18x18x18 planted tank and it looks bright enough to grow anything; I don't think this was at 100% either as I fiddled with the output knob and it went a bit brighter. See picture.


Wow, can`t wait to have mine, especially since it can grow red plants :grin2 *note sacrasm*)


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## RyRob

Nice to finally see the A80 over a decent planted tank! I've actually been considering one of these for a high-tech 3g Mr. Aqua bowfront in the near future.


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## BettaBettas

Kessil is a company I personally don't agree or trust with, now this was on the king of DIY and people say its true and it works an stuff, but if you go on amazon and get a floodlight (a little one that fits your aquarium size and needs) its just a bright and produces EVEN LESS shimmer, and works apparently with all plants, ill give a link here in just a bit.

Bump: Floodlight link


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## bleumoon

jsarrow said:


> Neptune Aquatics in San Jose has an A80 Tuna Sun over an 18x18x18 planted tank and it looks bright enough to grow anything; I don't think this was at 100% either as I fiddled with the output knob and it went a bit brighter. See picture.


roud: thanks for the pic


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## GreenTerror

I have one on the way as well. At $150 with a gooseneck if this thing can really grow anything at around 12" substrate depth its kind of a game changer for cheap high quality lighting on smaller tanks for those who don't like strip lights. As for the comment on led floodlights being a good alternative I think that's a bit ridiculous. I have a 10w flood over my 6gal low tech and while it does work well the quality of lighting you're going to get as far as color rendering and shimmer from the kessil is going to be much nicer. On top of all that its a much more attractive package and I don't have a ton of faith in the longevity of the flood lights. They serve their purpose for the cost but so does a Toyota carolla vs an Audi, both will get you to work but it's all about where you prefer to spend your money. Mine is going to be over a 15.8x12.6x12.6 tank so I will be sure to chime in on how it works out for me.


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## charlie 1

GreenTerror said:


> I have one on the way as well. At $150 with a gooseneck if this thing can really grow anything at around 12" substrate depth its kind of a game changer for cheap high quality lighting on smaller tanks for those who don't like strip lights. As for the comment on led floodlights being a good alternative I think that's a bit ridiculous. I have a 10w flood over my 6gal low tech and while it does work well the quality of lighting you're going to get as far as color rendering and shimmer from the kessil is going to be much nicer. On top of all that its a much more attractive package and I don't have a ton of faith in the longevity of the flood lights. They serve their purpose for the cost but so does a Toyota carolla vs an Audi, both will get you to work but it's all about where you prefer to spend your money. Mine is going to be over a 15.8x12.6x12.6 tank so I will be sure to chime in on how it works out for me.


Congrats, looking forward to reading your experience with it.
Back ordered here in my neck of the woods in Canada -Frustrating!


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## micheljq

error, plz delete


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## charlie 1

charlie 1 said:


> Congrats, looking forward to reading your experience with it.
> Back ordered here in my neck of the woods in Canada -Frustrating!


Should be arriving tomorrow !!!!!!!!!!!


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## bleumoon

charlie 1 said:


> Should be arriving tomorrow !!!!!!!!!!!


nice put up some pics when you can. I'm still on the waiting list


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## charlie 1

bleumoon said:


> nice put up some pics when you can. I'm still on the waiting list


Light is here , gooseneck is not.I will Ghetto mount it until such time the gooseneck finds it`s way here:wink2:


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## scalion

Curious to see some picture with that product, the silence mode is always a big plus.


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## charlie 1

scalion said:


> Curious to see some picture with that product, the silence mode is always a big plus.


My tank is in it`s infancy stage and a work in progress, nevertheless i will take and post a picture when i get home.


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## Qwedfg

Really interested to see some actual pictures of these things in action. I am curious if it will be able to grow a carpet in a tank that is 18 inches deep.


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## jeffkrol

https://www.nano-reef.com/forums/topic/378524-par-for-kessil-a80/

PAR measurement here


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## Qwedfg

jeffkrol said:


> https://www.nano-reef.com/forums/topic/378524-par-for-kessil-a80/
> 
> PAR measurement here



Hmm those numbers don't look promising. I had heard some people on reef central were bleaching corals with them after replacing their a160 units but it seems like may that have been exaggerated. Lighting a planted tank is frustrating since there are no good options in the LED market. I am thinking about snagging two gen 1 radion pros for a 120p size aquarium if I can find them at a decent price.


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## jeffkrol

Qwedfg said:


> I had heard some people on reef central were bleaching corals with them after replacing their a160 units but it seems like may that have been exaggerated.


Can't se how that is possible.. Even w/ some increased diode efficiency they are still 1/2 the power of a 160.
Can't fight physics..though you could focus the bejessus out of it.. but spread would suffer..


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## BROMLaar

Qwedfg said:


> Hmm those numbers don't look promising. I had heard some people on reef central were bleaching corals with them after replacing their a160 units but it seems like may that have been exaggerated. Lighting a planted tank is frustrating since there are no good options in the LED market. I am thinking about snagging two gen 1 radion pros for a 120p size aquarium if I can find them at a decent price.




There's plenty of good options in the LED market for planted tanks, options that are proven to work well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## charlie 1

Qwedfg said:


> Really interested to see some actual pictures of these things in action. I am curious if it will be able to grow a carpet in a tank that is 18 inches deep.


Light is about 7 inches off the top of tank, top of tank to substrate approx. 13 inches for a total of 20 inches light to substrate 
Tank is 19 .75" X 13"
Front carpet started about 3 weeks ago and it`s the labeled slow growing Marisila Crenata
Sorry i don`t have graphs or par or what someone wrote.:smile2:
This is real life.


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## softmushroom

BROMLaar said:


> There's plenty of good options in the LED market for planted tanks, options that are proven to work well.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Do you know any good ones that can keep up with a high-tech tank? As well as keeping red plants stay to their true colors and not turn green?


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## Jeffww

I have the a80 on a 10g tank. Excellent high tech light so far. Plants pearling etc. Furthermore those par data are for the blue version of the light. Not the daylight. Results speak for themselves, everyone.


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## jeffkrol

There are plenty of successful results that don't involve Kessil.....
As to PAR, it won't be very different regardless of the light depending on the meter sensor..
If you want to feel better add 10%...................

There are no "magic photons"....


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## Jeffww

No one said there are no other good results using LED. All I said was that the kessil light is a fine light. Furthermore, diode efficiency is dependent on the substrate and therefore wavelength it outputs. Even between manufacturers, the efficiency will vary for the same wavelength output. It is incorrect to translate the efficiency of one completely different colored light to another. What these numbers actually are is anyone's guess. No one said there were any magic photons.


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## jeffkrol

Kessil seems to think so.. 



> Hello Jeff,
> Thank you for your inquiry! We do not use PAR/Lumens to measure the output of our lights because it is not an accurate measurement for LED output. PAR only measures the visible spectrum and does not distinguish between wavelengths. We are working on compiling our data to publish an easy to understand reading in a single unit.
> The A80 is essentially half the output of the A160. Please see our recommendation for the placement of light along with the coverage for the A80 below and let us know if you have any questions. Thanks!
> 
> Mixed reef = covers 14” x 14” at 4” from water line
> 
> Soft/lps coral= covers 20” x 20” at 6” from water line
> 
> Fish only= covers 24” x 24” at 8” from water line
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Tiffany Huang
> 
> Kessil Lighting





> I was correct in saying from what I have read that par meters don't accurately measure par for kessil lights.
> 
> No, actually you aren't correct. With the applicable correction factor, if any is needed, any light can be measured for PAR. Kessil is absolutely no exception, and they literally emailed a steaming pile of bull....


Which I agree with..
https://www.nano-reef.com/forums/topic/378524-par-for-kessil-a80/


> We are working on compiling our data to publish an easy to understand reading in a single unit


Maybe they can change my mind.. but it is still only 1/2 of the equation as far as I'm concerned....
Kessil fanboys, Kessil bashers.. makes life interesting..










I think Kessil is behind in spectrum because they are "content" w/ selling a look.. fine w/ that but I'm not going to encourage it or pretend it is what it isn't.
Can it grow plants?.. yes. Does it have a look that some/others appreciate. yes. Does it have a cool design factor.. yes.. But all are relative.
Maybe I'm a bit hard on Kessil since almost all lights have a wart or two..
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/10-lighting/947586-apex-color-setting-kessil-a360we.html

Buy what you like.. that is the point but don't try to snow people.. much.. 

I've always preficed this stuff w/ saying it is part personal choice on my part 

Kessil makes more than adequate products for marine tanks, make the same for hort.. Freshwater.. still think one can do more..


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## softmushroom

jeffkrol said:


> Kessil seems to think so..



So what would you recommend for super high-tech tanks, besides a Kessil? haha


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## jeffkrol

softmushroom said:


> So what would you recommend for super high-tech tanks, besides a Kessil? haha


Depends on the depth and shape and goal and what you like to look at.. 

I really have no problem in people using Kessils, just knowing EXACTY what they are getting.. 

nothing wrong w/ an EVO quad clip on for a square tank..Plenty of ENERGY...









no ramp dimming and the 6500k may not be the correct look for you..
I could give you 1/2 doz reasons not to get it but heck.. only $76....
but if you want to grow plants ..period.. will work fine..  for the right size tank.

Kessils are not "the strongest" PAR output out there..that is part of the point..
Does well for its advanced optics though..
Still awaiting official PAR stats from Kessil (light sarcasm)


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## softmushroom

jeffkrol said:


> Depends on the depth and shape and goal and what you like to look at..
> 
> I really have no problem in people using Kessils, just knowing EXACTY what they are getting..
> 
> nothing wrong w/ an EVO quad clip on for a square tank..Plenty of ENERGY...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> no ramp dimming and the 6500k may not be the correct look for you..
> I could give you 1/2 doz reasons not to get it but heck.. only $76....
> but if you want to grow plants ..period.. will work fine..  for the right size tank.
> 
> Kessils are not "the strongest" PAR output out there..that is part of the point..
> Does well for its advanced optics though..
> Still awaiting official PAR stats from Kessil (light sarcasm)



My tank is an ADA 60P - 24x12x14inches. I'm trying to get my red plants to get their true colors as well as make better growth for my plants. Would you say a Chihiros-A-Series light would work good? Or what light would be good in the 8000k range?


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## jeffkrol

are you thinking about using 2 30cm lights???
one color or the 5 color (more reef centric)
True color is based on CRI.. Neither lists it.

These are just a like I will call it.. MH/ADA "type" fixtures..
Crisp white leds w/ little red..so "natural" is not in the equation..
Of course one could argue what is "natural" as to color temp.. but not to CRI..
Even ADA has "embraced" color..
SOLAR RGB | ADA - PRODUCT - LIGHTING SYSTEM

won't get into that bad idea though.. 

Now as an example.. find pictures of a Fluval planted 2.0. 7500k (close enough) Compare it to 









5 color Chiros









1 color ADA










Just a squarer Fluval..
https://youtu.be/HGd1TQ8jNRo

Point is you can have similar K values w/ VERY different looks..
Picked photos that appearred to have little processing except normal jpg. No guarantee of perfect accuracy but overall impression SHOULD be correct.

IF you noticed I said nothing about red..
Has 2 components 1)producing the pigments and 2)showing the said pigments..

My last red plants I killed.... Long story, had nothing directly(well sort of) to do w/ light..


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## gus6464

Aquarium Kessils have sealed electronics to safeguard against water damage. The hortis don't. One of the reasons you are paying more.

I also find it funny that Kessils are being compared to those 6500K evo lights which use the cheapest diodes imaginable and have 0 red in them. Kessils in 6000K setting have a ton of red.


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## jeffkrol

gus6464 said:


> Aquarium Kessils have sealed electronics to safeguard against water damage. The hortis don't. One of the reasons you are paying more.



Really so they sell hort lights i.e things that need watering, and are not sealed?? not sure which is worse..
I've worked in greenhouses, that should be #1 priority AFAICT.. 


> 3.DO NOT expose unit to an extremely humid
> environment or submerse unit in water. This may
> lead to unit failure


hort.. Greenhouse.. low humidity.. right..



> 3. DO NOT expose unit to an extremely humid
> environment or submerse unit in water. This may
> lead to unit failure.


A360 aquarium..
gus someone is blowing smoke.. 
besides all "guts" should be practically identical w/ just cosmetics and diodes different..





> I also find it funny that Kessils are being compared to those 6500K evo lights which use the cheapest diodes imaginable and have 0 red in them. Kessils in 6000K setting have a ton of red.











Speaks for itself..
nobody is comparing these to EVO's except in gross photons, regardless of spectrum..
The .5w ones are pushing a normal 100L/w..The 3W are (and I always stae) inefficient.. Lucky to get 50L/w 
Yes visual.. but no matter..Maybe you want to go into the magic photons??
TON is relative..
This light has a CCT of 5200k..and what I would call a ton of red..









Now if you get me some better spectral analysis of Kessil I'd appreciate it.
The tuna sun, using normal y axis numbers would put the blue peak at 120.. 
Anything below about 20 is pretty weak...

8893K w/ a "ton" of red..








GEE look.. numbers.. (above)


> You can also buy their red hort lights and mix with the whites to get a blend of red and white color. But then you have several lamps, not just one nice pendant.
> 
> I've talked with Kessil directly, I will talk to them some more in a week or two.
> I have a large carrot for them to simply add a few more red emitters in their 360 Tuna platform.
> Both marketing and sales over the web in general......... as well as specific planted tank marketing.
> 
> 
> .....Kessil listened and spoke with management. More than I can say for most companies, not that I blame them. They have to make $. But.........since it has tuning of the color spectra, what we like aesthetically..........shifting it from say 6500K down to 3000 K with more red and not as many yellows might be workable. You still hit most markets with a focus on planted tanks.
> 
> That's the trade off these lighting companies have to address.
> Most folks in reefs, they toss and burn money at their tanks like nothing.
> 
> That's the bulk of the market.


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## gus6464

Funny when people complain on the planted side about a $300 light being expensive. If I was an aquarium manufacturer I wouldn't even bother bringing out anything for this market. Priorities tend to be so backwards in this side of the hobby. It's cool to drop a grand on a small ADA tank with fancy glass pipes and such but then it's sacrilegious to do the same on lights. Then on reef side the tank is the cheapest thing people have whereas lights and everything else that actually grows the stuff inside them is the expensive stuff and how it should be.

If I were Kessil why on earth would I care about dumping money tweaking my planted lights so that people will still say it's expensive and not buy it anyway. It wouldn't even matter if they came out with a 100CRI light.


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## jeffkrol

I'm not complaining it is $300 per se.. Only $/PAR..or look or ect. 
Kessils have a "look" and do command a premium price (will eventually compare it to the new Radion I suspect).
no big deal..and not a secret.
your missing what I consider the fine point.. LED is moving forward.. Kessil, on this branch, not so much..
It's that pay more for the minimalist approach..not for everyone.. 

secondly nobody "needs" a Kessil to grow great plants or have great tanks..just need to say it.
third, lots of Kessil marketing is a con job..
none of this is "new news"...that "we have special diode spectrum therefore PAR meters don't count" baloney..
and I'm certainly not the only one who believes this. Along w/ the "need" for more red.
In fairness most have some of this (it is their job).. AFAIAC they just go they step a wee bit too far for me.
Like the "magic" CREES in the growbeams.. Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof..


Anyways in the sake of fairness.. and since I do like to do some "due diligence".. Kessil horts don't have the circuitry to hook it to a controller (will reserve that for a later discussion).
POINT is the $100 diff. does have "some" value..but it is not due to conformal coatings.

Kessil will have some new challenges w/ the Radion.. they had their chance.. 
nothing wrong w/ the Halo either, though some don't like the square shape..
neither one is actually cheaper per unit.
no real argument against an opinion..

US steel industry failed because the thought it was "good enough" and "we are the best" and refused to retool until it was too late... Landscape is littered w/ this type of thinking crushing things..
I've stated before, it was to save Kessil ( )not bash users.. Just don't "personally" recommend them unless someone shows a need..


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## jsarrow

Jeffkroll, I believe this post was meant to be about the a80 and peoples real world experience with it, not a rant about Kessil lights in general vs. other brands of lights.


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## theDCpump

jeffkrol said:


> I've stated before, it was to save Kessil ( )not bash users.. Just don't "personally" recommend them unless someone shows a *need*..


I needed a light that I could almost never bump, and swing the whole thing away in a impatient second.
I needed a fast adjustable manual dimmer-style intensity knob, and no digital buttons.
I needed one for a 70+ age owner could use and not have to call me for help on "what's wrong with the light".

My needs led me to The Kessil A160WE series.
- 'Had to try one.

I don't go full sprint like the studs on the forum do, but I hold my own.
..and yes, thanks for the research/debate about the light.
Advertising is always advertising, the real world is the real world.

A racer can win, not by horsepower, but by another skill.

- The numbers behind the science are always good to see and add to the collection for the world to come back to.
The world in time will comprehend the data and actually see if it even matters after the real results are shown in real life.

I they can't grow some plants, were going to hear about it from the rooftops soon.


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## theDCpump

The mounting-arm screws for the A80 are shorter than the A160.

They still have enough thread to hang on tight.
I tried the A160WE screw in the A80, and they bottomed out. 
-Just curious.


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## ibebian

theDCpump said:


> The mounting-arm screws for the A80 are shorter than the A160.
> 
> They still have enough thread to hang on tight.
> I tried the A160WE screw in the A80, and they bottomed out.
> -Just curious.




Interesting, you have them side by side. What have been your thoughts so far? Does it actually seem as though the A80 is half that of A160 despite being less than half wattage?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## theDCpump

ibebian said:


> Interesting, you have them side by side. What have been your thoughts so far? Does it actually seem as though the A80 is half that of A160 despite being less than half wattage?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I think the Kessil *A80 used at 75-90% = A160WE on low.*
I do also think the A80 turned up all the way to 100% is just a bit brighter than the A160WE on low.

As for throw in deep water, the 160WE can target a fairly deep 24" tank.
I have a 16" deep project, and I'd suggest the A80 all day.


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## ibebian

theDCpump said:


> I think the Kessil *A80 used at 75-90% = A160WE on low.*
> 
> I do also think the A80 turned up all the way to 100% is just a bit brighter than the A160WE on low.
> 
> 
> 
> As for throw in deep water, the 160WE can target a fairly deep 24" tank.
> 
> I have a 16" deep project, and I'd suggest the A80 all day.




Ah this is really good to know thank you! I pulled trigger on A160 for a 12" cube which i know is overkill (~18" to sub) but wanted to have the extra power to swap around for other larger tanks in future. 

When you say low on 160, do you mean intensity knob turned down all the way? Or somewhere in the first 10% range?


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## theDCpump

*The A80 was perfect for a low tank build.*
The dimmer style knobs won me over, since hello.








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ibebian said:


> Ah this is really good to know thank you! I pulled trigger on A160 for a 12" cube which i know is overkill (~18" to sub) but wanted to have the extra power to swap around for other larger tanks in future.
> 
> *When you say low on 160, do you mean intensity knob turned down all the way?* Or somewhere in the first 10% range?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


As soon as it lit up was the described low.


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## ibebian

Stunning. 


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