# Bolivian vs. German Ram



## Bill109 (May 5, 2008)

hello
what do you guys think is the better pick.. bolivian ram or german ram?
i want it to be compatible with tetras.. i heard the bolivians were and will do nicely in a 20long.. what do you think?
one last Q? are they expensive? or hard to come by?


thanks againn

-bill


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## KurtG (Dec 10, 2007)

I just like the German Rams more. Might look to Apistogramma as another option too.


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

Both are compatible with tetras. Bolivians have much more personality in my opinion; they are like miniature Oscars. Blairo wrote a good article on how to sex them. It is over at cichlid-forum.com in the species profiles area. 

German Rams are pretty sensitive and increasingly inbred and shot up with hormones. They certainly are more colorful, but a pair of breeding Bolivians has a great subtle beauty to them, and the males have excellent fin-trailers like some of the bigger geophagus species. I found the Bolivians to be very hardy. They eat shrimp like a champ though, so no shrimp mates in that tank.

I paid $9.99/ea for mine. Availability varies widely by locale.

^^ Apistogrammas are great!


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

I have both in a 150G for years now, and I will second that Bolivians are hardier and a little more fun to watch. Especially during mating time.
They grow much bigger than the German Ram so keep this in mind.
When you decide to make your purchase buy from a dealer who breeds not imports. Odd Ball Fish in Tampa is a great source for Rams.
They are not juiced up and prices are reasonable.


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## SammyP (Apr 26, 2006)

i voted germans because mine were fantastic to watch. I'm bias though because i've never owned bolivians. You may want to check out some kribensis as well, awesome fish.


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## Justbeginningfish (Mar 28, 2008)

I love my rams, both my gold ram who is full of spunk but not aggressive and my newer pair of blues. They little blue pair are super curious and not afraid of anything, they actually swim right into the net when it goes into the tank just to see if there is food in it.


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## Bill109 (May 5, 2008)

which do you think is the best representation for these 2 fish? i have gotten a few pics and ill tell ya.. some sites make these fish look amazing while others. not so much
1 -3 are bolivians.. and the other is a german

click for larger image.:.


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## Bill109 (May 5, 2008)

i am feeding sera pan stuff (tht color enhancing food) and frozen mysis and brine if it is reccomended..
i like the color of the bolivian better when the color is shown in bright colors,


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

1 looks most accurate, albeit a bit out of focus, and underexposed (the orange is more brilliant). #2 was someone taking a pic. the day they got the fish, all stressed and malnourished from LFS. #3 is a nice look male, but the photo is excessively oversaturated.


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## JAXON777 (Dec 30, 2006)

I voted for GBR's b/c I have three in my 100 gallon. I wish I would have bought all of them in the tank at the store tho (there were 5 in the tank). FYI i got my GBRs for 5.99 dont know how much bolivians are...


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

Number 2 is a Female, the #1 looks about normal.#3 is what my males look like come breeding time when they lock up. You can see a picrure of one of my males on my header of our website. I prefer Bolivians over German mostly.


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## stlfishlover (Mar 26, 2008)

Bolivians!!!!! They have the best personalities. They are comical to watch at times too, with the marital arguments between pairs or "my fins are prettier than yours" between some of the males. We have 11 in our 125 and I absolutely love them. Would rather watch them than the tv at times.

I would not put more than a pair in a 20g long though. If you would like more info on them you should head over to cichlid-forum and check out the BRC (Bolivian Ram Club) thread in the SA forum. It's about 76 pages now full of pictures and info about them and there a few very nice articles about them in the Library there.

Couple photos of mine, NOT photoshopped or edited lol


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

*Male Bolivian Photo*

here is a crappy picture of one of my male Bolivians I just took real quick.


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## stlfishlover (Mar 26, 2008)

Oh! He's gorgeous!! Not a crappy pic either lol


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

He thanks you for the comment. He is rather dashing, if I may say so myself.
LoL!


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## Bill109 (May 5, 2008)

Orlando said:


> here is a crappy picture of one of my male Bolivians I just took real quick.


how do you get it so colorful?
are the ones bred more colorful then wild like if i just picked one up from a lfs? i dont have anyone around here tht will breed them..
but they look really good i am going to try and get a hold of one of them..
when i buy 2 maybe, will they be seperted male and female? or all ogether and just ask for one of each?


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## valerietheangel (Jan 6, 2008)

I have had a bolivian for 4 years now and he is one of my all time favorite fish. His mate died of a tumor about two years ago and since then he has been less aggressive and much more fun to interact with. The first time the pair tried to breed though they attacked my then 12" long common pleco and alternated attacking his head and tail until he got fed up and buried their nesting site with a layer of gravel. 

As for purchasing, when looking at a tank full of ANY kind of cichlid at a petstore I try to identify a pair in the tank myself instead of asking an employee to sex two at random (but maybe I'm just that way :icon_eek Look for two displaying to each other or defending a small territory in the store tank (a lot of pairs will take up residence in the corners of bare tanks). This IME has been the best way to get a compatible pair that will breed later on (the hard part is just keeping your eye on both of them as they're being netted).


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## Bill109 (May 5, 2008)

valerietheangel said:


> I have had a bolivian for 4 years now and he is one of my all time favorite fish. His mate died of a tumor about two years ago and since then he has been less aggressive and much more fun to interact with. The first time the pair tried to breed though they attacked my then 12" long common pleco and alternated attacking his head and tail until he got fed up and buried their nesting site with a layer of gravel.
> 
> As for purchasing, when looking at a tank full of ANY kind of cichlid at a petstore I try to identify a pair in the tank myself instead of asking an employee to sex two at random (but maybe I'm just that way :icon_eek Look for two displaying to each other or defending a small territory in the store tank (a lot of pairs will take up residence in the corners of bare tanks). This IME has been the best way to get a compatible pair that will breed later on (the hard part is just keeping your eye on both of them as they're being netted).


this is true, the only thing im worried is if they breed, they may become to territorial for a 20 long tank with other tetras..


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## valerietheangel (Jan 6, 2008)

Mine were in a 55 and they were DEFINITELY territorial.


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## Bill109 (May 5, 2008)

valerietheangel said:


> Mine were in a 55 and they were DEFINITELY territorial.


all the time? or just during breeding? i dont see how they can be territorial when compatible with tetras..
but maybe im wrong.


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## OhioDave (Sep 11, 2007)

I have 3 pairs of Bolivians. They get a little testy during breeding time but they never killed any of my fish, tetras included. Mine are actually quite docile.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I think it will likely end up on the individual fish. Tetras tend to stay more in the middle water column so are a bit less likely to be seen as a thread than other bottom-dwellers like plecos, but you may or may not have issues... perhaps just have a plan "B" in case aggression turns out to be an issue?


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## Bill109 (May 5, 2008)

lauraleellbp said:


> I think it will likely end up on the individual fish. Tetras tend to stay more in the middle water column so are a bit less likely to be seen as a thread than other bottom-dwellers like plecos, but you may or may not have issues... perhaps just have a plan "B" in case aggression turns out to be an issue?


sounds good.. would u reccomend 1 or 2?
i would like a few other fish so im guessing one?

thanks..
have a great night


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

You mean one or two rams?

In a 20gal if your goal is a community tank I'd probably stick with just one. To be on the safe side...


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

Get a pair. They'll chase the tetras around breeding time, but tetras are quick.


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## TheCryptKeeper (Mar 9, 2008)

I have 2 apisto borelli in my tank.. they are awesome!

I also have 2 gbr's! really colorful


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## Rev2eight (Jan 11, 2008)

Ive gotten 3 different GBRs from a lfs and non of them lasted over a month. I finally gave up and bought one from a local breeder. These are actually pretty hardy fishes when their arent pumped full of hormones


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## valerietheangel (Jan 6, 2008)

Bill109 said:


> all the time? or just during breeding? i dont see how they can be territorial when compatible with tetras..
> but maybe im wrong.


During breeding they were pretty aggressive and other than that they maintained a small area in one of the corners. They never bothered fish that stayed up in the water column (I had barbs and black skirt tetras at the time) but they hated the pleco. The male is now fine with the pleco since his mate died and is very peaceful and active. He has gorgeous colors and is as personable as a fish ever gets. For your 20 I would probably go with one and maybe try to get a male? My male was always much more brightly colored than the female.


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

Bill109 said:


> how do you get it so colorful?
> are the ones bred more colorful then wild like if i just picked one up from a lfs? i dont have anyone around here tht will breed them..
> but they look really good i am going to try and get a hold of one of them..
> when i buy 2 maybe, will they be seperted male and female? or all ogether and just ask for one of each?


I feed them live foods, and I make my own pellets. They love them


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## stargate_geek (Mar 31, 2008)

I have a female Bolivian and she's my favorite fish. She comes to the tank front to watch me and beg for food. She's very cute and is always exploring and playing tag with the cories (even if she confuses them when she hides behind something.) So I vote Bolivian 

I, however, don't have experience with German Blues. I tried to get one, but they had both in the same tank at the store and they netted the wrong one...


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## Reddog80p (Oct 1, 2007)

Bolivians without a doubt. Healthy German Rams are harder to find. Bolivains have more personality IMO.

Here's a link to Blairo's great new site on Bolivians....

http://www.brc.moonfruit.com/


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