# NPT... how "natural" do ya dare get?? Filtration question



## ilovelucy (Jan 3, 2012)

Anyone have thoughts on this?


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

I have/had tanks ranging from 2.5 to 20 gallons with no filtration, some have no water movement at all. Not much difference from those with canisters.

I wouldnt worry about it, theres plenty of surface area inside the tank for bacteria to colonize. 

and plant heavy.


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

I have several systems with the largest being 80g using small 5w power heads equipped with sponges and I'm happy with the results.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

NO water movement at all isn't natural.


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## EnigmaticGuppy92 (Jan 31, 2012)

i agree with dogfish there should be some movement definitly


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## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

A 29 planted with no filtration and no water movement at all. There is a heater in there though since it's outside. Convection currents supply any water movement and the fish stay where they like the temperature. Which seems to be every spot in that tank. When working on it I feel the difference in temp from top to bottom but these guys are all over the tank.


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## EnigmaticGuppy92 (Jan 31, 2012)

i always think that some movement is better than none at all


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

DogFish said:


> NO water movement at all isn't natural.


i never said it was. i just said it's doable.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

nonconductive - My post was directed toward the OP, and not a comment on your efforts. I should have been more clear.


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## ilovelucy (Jan 3, 2012)

Thanks so much for the responses! I think I will start wit a small powerhead and see how it goes. I love the idea of my very own self-sustaining ecosystem. Of course, I'm my head it all works out perfectly... I hope it works out that well then it all comes together. I have a pretty significant amount of plants on their way as we speak, I hope its enough to knock out any big ammonia spike.


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## Daximus (Oct 19, 2011)

ilovelucy said:


> Thanks so much for the responses! I think I will start wit a small powerhead and see how it goes. I love the idea of my very own self-sustaining ecosystem. Of course, I'm my head it all works out perfectly... I hope it works out that well then it all comes together. I have a pretty significant amount of plants on their way as we speak, I hope its enough to knock out any big ammonia spike.


The ammonia spike will subside with time and bacteria. With an NPT like you are doing I have only these thoughts of caution. As many plants as you think you need, double that number. As many fish as you want, cut that number in half. :hihi:


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## ilovelucy (Jan 3, 2012)

Ooh, sorry about the grammatical errors! I don't often post from my phone. Damn auto-correct! Ya get the idea, anyway! Lol


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## ilovelucy (Jan 3, 2012)

I have somewhere in the neighborhood of 75 plants incoming, and I have about 6 leftover from a torn down tank. Is that not enough?


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## Daximus (Oct 19, 2011)

ilovelucy said:


> I have somewhere in the neighborhood of 75 plants incoming, and I have about 6 leftover from a torn down tank. Is that not enough?


I wasn't being literal, lol. Just trying to make a point. 

NPTs are awesome! Self sustaining, low cost, low maintenance...heck water changes are almost optional when they are done right. The thing is a lot of people start a real good NPT, then they stock it like mad and throw off the "balance". We like fish, and most of us try to get as many fish as we safely can in a tank...I'm guilty of this as well. However a proper, balanced NPT will have lot's of plants and a few fish.

I think this is one reason wkndracer's tanks work out so well. He doesn't cram 50 neons and 8 angels into a 55...his stocking is moderate and his tanks remain balanced. 

That's all I was trying to get across. :wink:


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

wooops sorry dogfish.


everytime i read a post by Daximus and look at his avatar i feel like im being yelled at. lol


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## Daximus (Oct 19, 2011)

nonconductive said:


> wooops sorry dogfish.
> 
> 
> everytime i read a post by Daximus and look at his avatar i feel like im being yelled at. lol


Lol, I'm sorry. I just think gunny is funny. It is about time I come up with something new. I don't ever raise my voice. :smile:


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

haha not your fault, i just read your text in his voice


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## ilovelucy (Jan 3, 2012)

Thanks, sir! I have New Tank Jitters so my capacity for any advice rather than bluntly literal is rather stunted. I don't have a plan for any fish as of yet. I really just want beautiful plants and the sweetest of fish that won't eat up my efforts. Do shrimp work in MGOCPM tanks? My water is fairly hard as well... dunno if that makes keeping shrimp less possible...


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

http://www.atlasbooks.com/marktplc/00388Shrimp.pdf

MGOC Shrimp bowls


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## Daximus (Oct 19, 2011)

ilovelucy said:


> Thanks, sir! I have New Tank Jitters so my capacity for any advice rather than bluntly literal is rather stunted. I don't have a plan for any fish as of yet. I really just want beautiful plants and the sweetest of fish that won't eat up my efforts. Do shrimp work in MGOCPM tanks? My water is fairly hard as well... dunno if that makes keeping shrimp less possible...


Sir is my dad's name. :hihi:

I really need a new avatar, good Lord, lol. 

Shrimp work great! And I'm not saying don't get any fish...I'm saying don't cram 90 of them in there, lol. Bunch of shrimp, small herd of pretty schooling fish, couple ottos...etc.


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## ilovelucy (Jan 3, 2012)

Daximus said:


> Sir is my dad's name. :hihi:
> 
> I really need a new avatar, good Lord, lol.
> 
> Shrimp work great! And I'm not saying don't get any fish...I'm saying don't cram 90 of them in there, lol. Bunch of shrimp, small herd of pretty schooling fish, couple ottos...etc.


That sounds to be right up my alley! I just saw some huge bamboo shrimp at my local Petco... freaked me out a little bit. My first instinct was to to protect the children!... then I wondered what they would taste like with a nice spicy cocktail sauce.... 

I would probably go with a smaller type of shrimp. :icon_smil


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## reddhawkk (Dec 28, 2011)

I think a powerhead would be fine. Check out this link as I believe all he uses is a powerhead.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/low-tech-forum/150555-toms-bucket-o-mud-semi-self.html


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## PaulG (Oct 10, 2010)

DogFish said:


> NO water movement at all isn't natural.


Why not?


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## Daximus (Oct 19, 2011)

PaulG said:


> Why not?


Most of the bodies of water where our plants and fish come from have _some_ water movement. Not sure how much access to rural areas you have, but if you look at what we commonly refer to as a "cow pond" here in the states, there is nothing living in it you would want in a fish tank. For the record, a cow pond is a largely stagnant (and mostly nasty unless you're a pickled farm boy looking for a dip) body of water. 

The only exceptions I can think of off the top of my head are Bettas (mud puddle fish) and maybe some mosses. 

That's not to say you couldn't do a stagnant aquarium with varying levels of success...it's to say whatever you put in there would probably prefer some water movement...at least a little bit. 

Oh..and more often than not I'm that pickled farm boy.


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