# Green film algae on glass!



## 99RedSi (Jul 31, 2005)

Hi everyone -

I've dreaded this day for awhile, I suppose it's inevitable in a new tank.

I have a new JBJ 6g nanocube setup with 2 dwarf puffers and 4 ghost shrimp.

Initial Plants upon setup around the end of November:

Water Wisteria (Hygro Difformis?) - 2 bunches
Giant Hygro - 1 bunch
Baby Tears - 2 bunches

I had NO algae problems until the past week when I noticed green "film" algae on the leaves of the hygro. It's now on the glass as well.

I ripped out the baby tears on Sunday since they weren't growing or doing well at all. I pulled some hygro and replanted it in front as it wasn't doing well either! Only the Wisteria has been doing well!! I don't understand that..

I dose every other day with Excel, every 3 days with Flourish and once a week with Flourish iron. Can the Flourish (not the Excel) cause algae ? I'm only dosing enough for a 10g (1ml - the cap is filled to the first thread, as the instructions say).

What type of algae is this and what should I do to get rid of it BESIDES an algae eater (like an oto).

Oh and the photoperiod HAS BEEN 10 hours. Lighting is an 18w, 6500K CF bulb fixture over the 6g, so it's "Medium" light. Tonight, I reduced the photoperiod to 8 hours to see if that helps - what do you think?

Picture:











(THIS IS NOT GREEN WATER!)


----------



## mrbelvedere (Nov 15, 2005)

Maybe up the C02 with a Hagen ladder system? I also think the fertilizer companies can mislead you a bit on their prescribed dosing regimen. I have heard that excess iron can cause certain algaes, not sure what kind anymore. I used to dose iron, and all my algaes would show improved growth. I have found that you don't even need iron fertilizers if you have fluorite. What's wrong with getting an oto?


----------



## 99RedSi (Jul 31, 2005)

mrbelvedere138 said:


> Maybe up the C02 with a Hagen ladder system? I also think the fertilizer companies can mislead you a bit on their prescribed dosing regimen. I have heard that excess iron can cause certain algaes, not sure what kind anymore. I used to dose iron, and all my algaes would show improved growth. I have found that you don't even need iron fertilizers if you have fluorite. What's wrong with getting an oto?


Nothing at all .. I just want to beat this without it, if possible. Beat it at the source! .


----------



## stcyrwm (Sep 1, 2005)

It looks like green dust algae from the photos. You might want to do a search under this and confirm that this is what it is. If that is what it is then dosing PO4 will get rid of it in my experience. I use KH2PO4 from "gregwatson.com". You could also use Seachem phosphate or DIY it with Fleet Enema. 

In general you will need to dose macro nutrients along with the traces and carbon which you are dosing or you will get a algae farm. Those macros are nitarate, potassium and phosphate. I use KNO3 again from "gregwatson.com" to cover the nitrate and potassium. The KH2PO4 covers my phosphates. 

I base my dosing calculations off Tom Barr's recommendations (for more info see "barrreport.com" "Non Co2 Methods":

"So a 20 gal using excel would get:
2 w/gal light
Dose 1/8 teaspoon KNO3 1-2x a week
KH2PO4, 1/16th, 1-2x a week
Traces, 2mls 2x a week
SeaChem EQ 1/8th once a week
50% weekly water change
Dose 1.5-2x the rec dosing for Excel." 

With a 6 gallon you could do a quarter of this or even less, maybe an eigth because you are not using as much Excel as he is in this example.

Good luck, Bill

PS
Oops I forgot to add that if this is green dust you can wipe it off the glass with a paper towel trying to capture as much of it as possible. I believe green dust is a zoophyte sp? which means any that drips off will reattach itself to the glass and start over.


----------



## 99RedSi (Jul 31, 2005)

stcyrwm said:


> It looks like green dust algae from the photos. You might want to do a search under this and confirm that this is what it is. If that is what it is then dosing PO4 will get rid of it in my experience. I use KH2PO4 from "gregwatson.com". You could also use Seachem phosphate or DIY it with Fleet Enema.
> 
> In general you will need to dose macro nutrients along with the traces and carbon which you are dosing or you will get a algae farm. Those macros are nitarate, potassium and phosphate. I use KNO3 again from "gregwatson.com" to cover the nitrate and potassium. The KH2PO4 covers my phosphates.
> 
> ...


Wow .. ok .. and to think I was told I wouldn't need to dose nitrates or anything else beyond excel!

Is the Flourish or Flourish Iron adding to the problem?

I think I found another problem, or I figured out the root cause (if it's not only a phosphate problem) - I don't have ANY nitrates today after doing a 35% water change on Sunday afternoon! Bingo!

I have some KN03 ("Green Light Stump Remover") that I'm going to try tonight and see if I can bring up the nitrates to 5-10 mg/l.

I'll try the phosphates next, depending on my success over the next few days. Will I see a difference with a few days? I'm asking because I'm going out of town on Sunday afternoon for one week and I don't want to come back to an algae bloom!

Thanks!


----------



## stcyrwm (Sep 1, 2005)

99RedSi said:


> Wow .. ok .. and to think I was told I wouldn't need to dose nitrates or anything else beyond excel!
> 
> Is the Flourish or Flourish Iron adding to the problem?
> 
> ...


There is a lot of misinformation out there about fertilizers but I think if you look through this site you will find that there is a general consensus about needing to dose macros and traces. You are already dosing the traces and while I doubt you need the iron I don't think there is any harm in it. 

It is important to dose the KNO3 but if what you have is green dust it will not make this go away. It will help prevent other algae though. My strategy with green dust is to continue to slowly up the KH2PO4 dosing until it is under control. I'm personally okay with having a little bit because my ottos like to eat it. As with most algae you will have to manually remove the algae while you correct the lack of PO4. You should start dosing the PO4 right away.

It will probably also help you to raise the amount of excel that you put in per Tom Barr's recomendations. Once you've started dosing macros 1x/week you won't need to dose anything else while you are away but if there was someone there feeding the fish it would be good to keep dosing the excel.

Bill


----------



## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

You should stop trying to grow stem plants under 18 watts of light spread out over a 6 gallon tank. You need twice the light if you want stem plants. They have a minimum incidence level that you can't reach spreading 18 watts of light around a 6 gallon tank. Switch to low light tolerant plants, java fern, mosses, and crypts. Go lighter on the nutrients, keep up the excel dosing.


----------



## 99RedSi (Jul 31, 2005)

SCMurphy said:


> You should stop trying to grow stem plants under 18 watts of light spread out over a 6 gallon tank. You need twice the light if you want stem plants. They have a minimum incidence level that you can't reach spreading 18 watts of light around a 6 gallon tank. Switch to low light tolerant plants, java fern, mosses, and crypts. Go lighter on the nutrients, keep up the excel dosing.


That's probably why I've had such trouble outside of the Wisteria. I'm going to keep the wisteria but this tank MUST be heavily planted. It's easiest to heavily plant with stem plants so if I can't use those, what should I use? Lots of Java Fern? Hornwort?

I'm so new to doing this, and doing it right, that I'm not sure which plants to even select.

Wisteria
Java Fern
Christmas Moss (is that OK?)
Crypts of various types
Petite Anubias Nana (already purchased from 'swap 'n shop')

The reason I must have it heavily planted is because dwarf puffers need to have their line of sight broken so they don't kill each other!


----------



## stcyrwm (Sep 1, 2005)

SCMurphy said:


> You should stop trying to grow stem plants under 18 watts of light spread out over a 6 gallon tank. You need twice the light if you want stem plants. They have a minimum incidence level that you can't reach spreading 18 watts of light around a 6 gallon tank. Switch to low light tolerant plants, java fern, mosses, and crypts. Go lighter on the nutrients, keep up the excel dosing.


I've had good luck with some stem plants in a 10 gallon with 22 watts screw in compact fluorescents with an ahsupply reflector. Bacopa, myrephillium (spelling?), egeria densa, rotala indica, ludwigia. I admit they didn't grow fast but they did fine otherwise. I was using excel also. My riccia surprisingly did really well too and was easy to maintain because it grew very slooowly. I would think that this would be comparable to 18 watts over 6 gallons unless the reflector is not very good.

Bill


----------



## stcyrwm (Sep 1, 2005)

99RedSi said:


> That's probably why I've had such trouble outside of the Wisteria. I'm going to keep the wisteria but this tank MUST be heavily planted. It's easiest to heavily plant with stem plants so if I can't use those, what should I use? Lots of Java Fern? Hornwort?
> 
> I'm so new to doing this, and doing it right, that I'm not sure which plants to even select.
> 
> ...


Any of the plants you or SCMurphy listed should do fine. I think if you go to "aquaticplantcentral.com" and go to the Plantfinder you can sort by light level. Any of the low level ones would work and if you see something in the medium level you like give it a go, just don't make it a centerpiece and then if it doesn't work out it's not a big deal. All 5 of my tanks are below 2 watts per gallon no CO2 and I have found that plants often do better than I expect. IME it's good to also remember that once a tank is established it seems to do much better than when first set up so be patient. 

Bill


----------

