# Where could I get a good aquarium sand or clay substrate for under $15?



## icom (Mar 14, 2008)

pool filter sand available at at any pool and spa place runs from $6 to $9 for a 50# bag.
I use it in several tanks and it works great

Petsmart sells Flourite too for about #20 for a 15#


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## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

Depending on the size of your tank, Schultz Aquatic Soil from Home Depot or Lowe's or Pool Filter Sand(minimum 1mm grain size), or Soil Master Select(if you can still find it) is about as cheap as you are going to get for a decent substrate. Some members have had good success with regular 1-3 mm size aquarium gravel. In all cases, these substrates are inert which means you really have to be on top of your ferts and c02 if you plan to use them in a high tech, high light setup. Personally if I was going to use any one of these, I would only use them in a low light, low tech, setup with mainly low light plants where you have more wiggle room to screw up on water column fertilizing, especially if you keep a fully stocked tank with well fed fish and minimal water changes. The balance would just be easier to achieve and keep and these cheap substrates should be sufficient in such a setup. I am not saying you couldn't setup a high tech tank using them. I am just saying that you have to be on top of things if you do, otherwise you will be haunted by algae to no end.


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## Vladdy (May 6, 2008)

That's perfect for my tank. My tank is low light and low-tech. The only good substrate I found at Petsmart is Tahitan moon sand, which comes in a very big bag for $25 a bag. I couldn't find flourite there. By the way, is there anything that won't alter my pH?


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## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

Vladdy said:


> That's perfect for my tank. My tank is low light and low-tech. The only good substrate I found at Petsmart is Tahitan moon sand, which comes in a very big bag for $25 a bag. I couldn't find flourite there. By the way, is there anything that won't alter my pH?


FWIW, I paid about the same for TMS and paid about $7.00 for the same size bag of Schultz Aquatic Soil. However, I did find that plants rooted better and anchored down better in the TMS than the SAS. However, I found no difference in plant growth between pool filter sand and TMS. The pool filter sand though was a fraction of the cost of the TMS. TMS does look better because of its black color and that is why most people buy it. If you are only after decent plant growth, the pool filter sand will work as well, at least IME.


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## Vladdy (May 6, 2008)

Thanks. What about the pH?


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## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

Vladdy said:


> Thanks. What about the pH?


I setup a tank with 80% Schultz Aquatic Soil and noticed no change in PH over a period of 6 months to present. However, I was injecting the tank with DIY c02 and don't know if things would have been different PH wise if I was not injecting c02. KH and GH also remained pretty constant. It is said that TMS is supposed to raise PH, but Pool Filter Sand is not. To be honest, I did not test the PH over time with TMS, Pool Filter Sand, and Seachem Onyx Sand. I have had a lot of success with Seachem Onyx Sand and Pool Filter Sand, even on smaller tanks and Seachem Onyx Sand like TMS is said to buffer the PH to a higher level. As far as PH goes, none of my fish have suffered. It is not so much high PH that will kill your fish, but inconsistent PH and rapid PH swings over a short period of time. Most plants are also tolerant of a range of PH as long as it is reasonable. If you don't mind the hassle, although I don't do it on most of my low light tanks(I use Seachem Excel for carbon instead), there is nothing wrong with injecting c02 into a low tech tank and the c02 injection will naturally keep the PH levels slighter lower and also benefit the plants.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

FWIW Colorquartz is pretty comparable to TMS in color and size, is inert, and around $25 for a 50lb bag. You can go to www.3M.com and find a local pool supply company that carries it.


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## Vladdy (May 6, 2008)

If I quarantine my fish for a few hours while I change my substrate, then they may die of stress when I put them back. Neon tetras like a nuetral to slightly low pH. By the way, rate my tank by clicking on my icon : )


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

You'll likely need to move your fish for more than just a few hours if you're planning a complete substrate change- this could trigger a mini-cycle in your tank.

Also, most neon tetras in the hobby are captive-bred and so aren't as sensitive to water parameters as wild-caught fish tend to be. As long as your water parameters aren't extreme and your plans don't involve spawning the fish they're probably fine in your water as-is.


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## Vladdy (May 6, 2008)

What substrate do you think will look good in my tank? To see my tank, click on the link below http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myTanks/866-Vladdy.html


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

What are your goals for this tank? Do you want it to look pretty much like it does now, just with a different substrate?


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## DiscusIt'sWhats4DinneR (Apr 25, 2008)

play sand works good too... $ 5 dollars per 50lb at OSH. looks natural too.

do you have substrate in the tank already?

i have added sand with fish IN the tank because of the lack of a better place to put them. just put the sand in a bucket, take it to the tub till it rinses clear, (and so it wont cloud the hell out of your water) then dump it into the tank *slowly...* take the water line down to about halfway while youre doing this. otherwise water will be everywhere.


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## Vladdy (May 6, 2008)

I already have substrate in the tank. I want it to look pretty much the way it does now,but with a different substrate. I'm worried it will change the pH and stress my fish. Neon tetras like a lower pH.


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## reddragon1977 (May 30, 2007)

i though youre not suposed to use sand as i compacts easy and creates air pockets???


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## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

reddragon1977 said:


> i though youre not suposed to use sand as i compacts easy and creates air pockets???


There are as many people who will tell you that they have grown plants in sand without any compaction issues as there are people who will tell you that they have had problems with compaction. This hobby is ripe with such contradictions and controversy. That is why I became a tester. It seems the only sure way to weed through a lot of controversy and contradiction. The fact that some people can grow plants for years in sand without compaction issues, in and of itself tells me that compaction is a myth, or no one could grow plants in sand without compaction. Also big companies like Seachem would not sell fluorite sand or Seachem Onyx sand and risk their reputation with customers. In nature aquatic plants can often be seen growing healthy and deeply rooted in sand and sediment. They don't suffer from compaction. Cause and effect relationships are really difficult to prove. I think that people may be too quick to blame compaction on poor plant growth when other factors(insufficent ferts, lighting, carbon, etc., may be to blame).

Nevertheless, *"if" *compaction is a reality, there are several things that can be done to prevent becoming a victim of it.

(1) Get some Malaysian Trumphet snails to turn over and aerate the sand. Personally, I wouldn't do this as the snails will multiply like rabbits and will add to huge bioload issues, especially if you have a small tank. You fix one problem only to create another.

(2) Give the subsrate pokes with chopsticks before every water change and follow up with a water change as ammonia will likely be released.

(3) Make sure that you plant some deep rooting plants like cryptocornes and swords. The deep root dispersion may prevent anaerobic pockets.

(4) Use 1-3 mm grain sand which is less likely to compact.

(5) Forget sand and use something with high CEC like Schultz Aquatic soil or Soil Master Select over Laterite,or plain flurorite, or even better colorquartz and or fluorite.


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## reddragon1977 (May 30, 2007)

im not trying to steal the thread but im feeling the same way about the cost of substrate. If im undertsanding everything from these threads is that your choice is either hight cost = high fert/mineral content, low cost = inert fert/mineral content. Is there really a requirement to have a mineral rich substrate or mabey i should save on the substrate and add that money to the lighting system? if i can get away for under $15 with similar results i would be a fool not to consider it.


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## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

reddragon1977 said:


> ... Is there really a requirement to have a mineral rich substrate or mabey i should save on the substrate and add that money to the lighting system? if i can get away for under $15 with similar results i would be a fool not to consider it.


That really depends on the types of plants you are trying to grow(root feeders will benefit more from a nutrient rich substrate(low light or high light) than water column feeders like anubias, java ferns, etc., how much or how little you stock the tank(in a fully stocked low light low tech tank you may not need to worry about ferts until plant deficiency symptoms show up and that could be some time since, nutrient uptake by plants will be much lower), how frequently you change the water(more frequent water changes will exhaust nutrients quicker in a low tech tank especially if you don't add trace elements and potassium, nitrates, phosphates, calcium, and magnesium with every water change), and whether you dose seachem excel for carbon or inject c02(these will increase uptake of nutrients by plants).

I am going to be setting up a 10 gallon low tech, low light(20 watts) with Aquasoil II, seachem excel for carbon, anubias, java ferns, crypts, dwarf lillies, ambulia, and oniion plant(s) to see if the plants in such a low tech, setup benefit from the enriched substrate. As I stated, It seems the only sure way to find answers to mysteries in this hobby and cut through much of the controversy and contradiction that surrrounds this is to get your feet wet and see what you find despite any associated risks and negative consequences. It is all about learning.

A cheap way to enrich a cheap substrate without spending a fortune is to crush some root tabs up like(seachem root tabs) and spread that over a dusting of peat, then plant the roots of your deep rooters into that layer and cap with sand. The plant roots being in close proximity to the crushed root tabs will have easy access to a good supply of nutrients until mulm builds up over time. I have tried this and it works wonders.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

There's positives and negatives either way to balance out in substrate choice. This was the list of factors I considered in choosing my own substrate:

-Cost
-Aesthetics (color and grain consistency, mostly)
-Size (big/heavy enough to hold down plants yet small enough to promote root growth)
-Water circulation (you will get anaerobic spots if the substrate grains are not large enough to allow water circulation or there aren't enough plant roots throughout the substrate)
-Nutrient content (how much time and energy do you want to spend dosing ferts)

I spent just as much on my substrate as on my light fixture. These were the two line item purchases where I spent the most $$.


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## Vladdy (May 6, 2008)

Thanks for answering. I plan on getting peat moss. Will that suddenly change my pH or over time?


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