# CRS dying after molting.



## Pluke (Jun 17, 2017)

Last week I got my first CRS to put in my 5g planted tank. I ordered 12 of them overnight delivery and was sent 15, 3 of which were DOA and 1 was paralyzed, aside from it's swimmerettes, it died 24 hours later. I figured it was just because they had a stressful time in shipping and a few had molted during the trip and that didn't work out too well for them. Anyways.. it's a week later. Two of them have died over the passed 2 days, within 12 hours of molting.

My water parameters are as follows: 
Ammonia: 0
Nitrites: 0
Nitrates: 5
TDS: 151
PH: 6.5
GH: Between 5 and 6, we'll just say 6. 

I use RO water and add the the salty shrimp bee shrimp GH+. I'm not sure what's happening. I haven't done a full water change since I started the tank and I may have had some non-RO water in the tank, but very little. After the first shrimp died, I raised the TDS a little from 130 now to 150. 

The water the shrimp came in was 184 (after drip acclimating with water from my tank which was 130ish, at least doubling volume or more). I'm not sure if I should raise the TDS or what. I don't know what to do. They are all so active and normal until they molt. I've only had 2 molt since their arrival and they both died, my two biggest. I'm going to have to ask the people I bought them from what their TDS was at, because I'm guessing it was higher than the recommended 100-150 range that I read was needed. Especially since the water was 184 after double the amount of water from my tank. All help is appreciated, thanks guys.


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

What is the temp they are in and what they were in? You want to try and match as close to the parameters they were in even if not the best and slowly acclimate them to correct parameters. 

It seems like they came in water that was higher in ph and they could not be doing well in a lower ph or some other parameters are different as well. 

I would definitely find out what the temp was. Gh/kh(if any)

What substrate are you using and what is your kh if any? If no kh and no buffering substrate your ph could be fluctuating. 


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## Pluke (Jun 17, 2017)

clownplanted said:


> What is the temp they are in and what they were in? You want to try and match as close to the parameters they were in even if not the best and slowly acclimate them to correct parameters.
> 
> It seems like they came in water that was higher in ph and they could not be doing well in a lower ph or some other parameters are different as well.
> 
> ...


I'm using fluval shrimp substrate, buffering. It keeps it at a steady 6.5. My KH is 1. 

When I got the shrimp, I didn't have an air conditioner, I bought one 2 days after receiving them because I lost one to heat I believe. Now my room is at a steady 74 degrees, around there. The website I got them from says their kept at 70-78 degrees. The PH says they were in 6.2-6.8. Maybe that's just what the site says and not the exact parameters they're kept in on site. I'm not sure what I should do in the mean time. I have some sungrow mineral stones at my GF's house for our neocaridina shrimp that we haven't use, maybe I should add one of those to this tank. I have some almond leaves that I bought as well but haven't added yet because I wanted them to get settled in to the new home before I start throwing random stuff in there. Hopefully these two who shed were a fluke and things will turn around.


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

Were they older adults that didn't make it? It's not uncommon for this to happen. Adults have a harder time adjusting than young do. Also with it being on the warmer side that could of really not helped the cause as well. Even though your room is at 74 do you know the temp of the water? Things can easily add heat that could make it warmer than the house temp. 


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## Pluke (Jun 17, 2017)

clownplanted said:


> Were they older adults that didn't make it? It's not uncommon for this to happen. Adults have a harder time adjusting than young do. Also with it being on the warmer side that could of really not helped the cause as well. Even though your room is at 74 do you know the temp of the water? Things can easily add heat that could make it warmer than the house temp.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The two who died after molt were the biggest shrimp that I received, I'd say they were adult size. I checked the temps of the water and right now it's 75.3. I have a digital thermometer I check with often and it's typically around 74-75 now, maybe drops a tad lower at night but it's not a lot. I read cooler temps aren't nearly as bad as warm temps.


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

Pluke said:


> The two who died after molt were the biggest shrimp that I received. I checked the temps of the water and right now it's 75.3. I have a digital thermometer I check with often and it's typically around 74-75 now, maybe drops a tad lower at night but it's not a lot. I read cooler temps aren't nearly as bad as warm temps.




I would aim to not let it get over 75. And yes warmer temps are worse than cooler. 

It very well could the adults just did not adjust well like I said this is common. The young usually have an easier time adjusting. I would just monitor everything and make sure the temp does not get higher than 75. If need be you can blow a fan over the top which helps cool it down a bit. 




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## Pluke (Jun 17, 2017)

clownplanted said:


> I would aim to not let it get over 75. And yes warmer temps are worse than cooler.
> 
> It very well could the adults just did not adjust well like I said this is common. The young usually have an easier time adjusting. I would just monitor everything and make sure the temp does not get higher than 75. If need be you can blow a fan over the top which helps cool it down a bit.
> 
> ...


I'll keep the temps lower than 75, the rest of my shrimp are all smaller than the two who died after molting. Hopefully they fair better. I'll keep you updated. Thanks again, appreciate it.


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## Pluke (Jun 17, 2017)

Lost another one over night. I sent a message to the people I got them from to see their parameters. Hopefully I can resolve the issue later. Tempted to do a water change, but I'll wait for a response. I won't be home til later tonight anyway..

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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

Pluke said:


> Lost another one over night. I sent a message to the people I got them from to see their parameters. Hopefully I can resolve the issue later. Tempted to do a water change, but I'll wait for a response. I won't be home til later tonight anyway..
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk




I would double check your ammonia and nitrite levels also. 

How long has this tank been cycling for?

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## Pluke (Jun 17, 2017)

The tank is about a month old at this point. I just got a response and their tds is between 180 and 225 and they supplement with pieces of cuttlebone. My tds has been at 130 and is now 150, I need to raise it more apparently. I'll see if I can find some cuttlebone.

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## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

Pluke said:


> The tank is about a month old at this point. I just got a response and their tds is between 180 and 225 and they supplement with pieces of cuttlebone. My tds has been at 130 and is now 150, I need to raise it more apparently. I'll see if I can find some cuttlebone.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


 @clownplanted has nailed it for you, and that's why I only sell 3-6 week old shrimp. 

I would not add cuddlebone with a buffering substrate - that's going to add KH which will cause small pH swings and waste your substrate's buffering capacity (which is already not the best to start with). 

You already have the correct parameters between 5-6 dGH with a great remineralizer. Instead of mineral stones, you'll probably want to pick up some high quality food.

I'd test ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates again just to be sure, and if you get more than 0/0/20, then I'd do a water change. Otherwise, don't do that as you'll most likely induce molting and add more stress.

Also, I'd toss the IAL's in ASAP. They'll help with bacterial and fungal infections as well as slightly raise TDS safely via tannins.


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## Pluke (Jun 17, 2017)

natemcnutty said:


> @clownplanted has nailed it for you, and that's why I only sell 3-6 week old shrimp.
> 
> I would not add cuddlebone with a buffering substrate - that's going to add KH which will cause small pH swings and waste your substrate's buffering capacity (which is already not the best to start with).
> 
> ...


What are some high quality foods I can get them? I'm using bacter ae, sparingly. I've given them one algae wafer, too. Wasn't too much interest so that's all they got. I'll get them whatever is recommended..

In other news, I believe I had 3 of them molt today while I was away. All my shrimp are active and doing normal shrimp things. I'm relieved, but still erring on the side of caution. Adding those leaves, afraid to raise TDS too much though so won't add more gh+. I won't add the cuttle bone I bought either.

Also @natemcnutty which buffering substrate do you recommend most? I feel you may not be a fan of the fluval since you said it's not great to begin with.

Thanks again guys, you're a big help.

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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

Pluke said:


> The tank is about a month old at this point. I just got a response and their tds is between 180 and 225 and they supplement with pieces of cuttlebone. My tds has been at 130 and is now 150, I need to raise it more apparently. I'll see if I can find some cuttlebone.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk




Also something to keep in mind they must of had kh in the tank they came from as cuttlebone it adds kh. Do you know what the kh was? I would ask for their exact PH/GH/KH. If the kh they came from was more than 2 that could also explain some issues going directly from 2 or more KH to 0 as your substrate removed all KH. but I still feel the adults just didn't adjust well. As @natemcnutty said add the almond leaves. Those are great I use them in my tank as well. And guess where I got that great advice from. @natemcnutty which I also got all my CRS from . So for sure take his advice. 


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

Pluke said:


> What are some high quality foods I can get them? I'm using bacter ae, sparingly. I've given them one algae wafer, too. Wasn't too much interest so that's all they got. I'll get them whatever is recommended..
> 
> In other news, I believe I had 3 of them molt today while I was away. All my shrimp are active and doing normal shrimp things. I'm relieved, but still erring on the side of caution. Adding those leaves, afraid to raise TDS too much though so won't add more gh+. I won't add the cuttle bone I bought either.
> 
> ...




Him and I do not use a buffering substrate. We are blessed enough with soft enough tap water. He used all tap and I use half tap and half ro. This puts my KH at 1.75 and gh at 2 so I add 3 gh to give me 5gh and 1.75kh so I will not have the ph swings due to some kh which a buffering substrate will prevent. I use inert BDBS. There are good buffering substrates out there though that last a lot longer than the Fluval. My buddy @Aqua99 uses and swears by Controsoil in all his shrimp tanks with great results. It's great and last a long time as far as buffering goes. What is good about this is it does not leach ammonia like some others do like ada Amazonia forcing you to have to cycle longer till it stops leaching ammonia. 

As long as you have enough KH (1-2) and a good enough PH(6.2-7.4) and GH from 4-6 you do not have to have a buffering substrate. You may be able to achieve using part RO and part tap? It does help though take the guess work out though using a buffering substrate. Remember though whatever you do if you are going to change parameters for whatever reason (in their range) do it ever so slowly. 


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## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

Pluke said:


> What are some high quality foods I can get them? I'm using bacter ae, sparingly. I've given them one algae wafer, too. Wasn't too much interest so that's all they got. I'll get them whatever is recommended..
> 
> In other news, I believe I had 3 of them molt today while I was away. All my shrimp are active and doing normal shrimp things. I'm relieved, but still erring on the side of caution. Adding those leaves, afraid to raise TDS too much though so won't add more gh+. I won't add the cuttle bone I bought either.
> 
> ...


That is great news! Don't give a ton of thought to matching TDS though - tannins and many other things contribute, so you'll want to use it more as a benchmark against your own tank rather than others.

As for good foods, there are many specialty ones out there, but I'm not a fan of the color enhancing stuff. I stick to Ken's Veggie Sticks with Calcium, spirulina powder, snowflake, and a mix of other things. I just mean that decent food will do more for them then the mineral stones 

As for substrate, it's not that I dislike it, but it's the fact that it doesn't last a long as others. ADA Amazonia 1, Controsil, UP Aqua and a few others in that style tend to last a lot longer, and that means less teardowns/replacements.

Ultimately, I choose not to use buffering substrates if I can help it because of this. If I can't get Blue Bolts acclimated to my parameters, I'll probably use hang on planters filled with buffering substrate and stick to BDBS in the bottom 

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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

natemcnutty said:


> That is great news! Don't give a ton of thought to matching TDS though - tannins and many other things contribute, so you'll want to use it more as a benchmark against your own tank rather than others.
> 
> As for good foods, there are many specialty ones out there, but I'm not a fan of the color enhancing stuff. I stick to Ken's Veggie Sticks with Calcium, spirulina powder, snowflake, and a mix of other things. I just mean that decent food will do more for them then the mineral stones
> 
> ...




Man that is a great idea with the hang on planters that have a buffering substrate. Have at least 2 that way after time can swap one at a time and not cause buffering issues. Just like staggering filter maintenance. 


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## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

clownplanted said:


> Man that is a great idea with the hang on planters that have a buffering substrate. Have at least 2 that way after time can swap one at a time and not cause buffering issues. Just like staggering filter maintenance.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You can also grow emersed plants out of them. I think it was @geisterwald that I saw doing that, and it gave me the idea of using buffering substrate in them 

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## Panw (Jan 20, 2016)

Pluke said:


> The tank is about a month old at this point. I just got a response and their tds is between 180 and 225 and they supplement with pieces of cuttlebone. My tds has been at 130 and is now 150, I need to raise it more apparently. I'll see if I can find some cuttlebone.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk




Where did you get the shrimps from?


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## Pluke (Jun 17, 2017)

Panw said:


> Where did you get the shrimps from?


I ordered them from Aquatic Arts. Which I'm hesitant to say, because I don't want people to think I'm disappointed with them. They've been very understanding and have had excellent customer care so far as well as fast shipping. They are going to replace the shrimp that I lost within the first day of receiving them as well. I also ordered a plant from them (Brazilian Pennywort) and they gave me way more than I was expecting and I was really happy with that. I'm planning to order more stuff from them in the future when my other tank is settled and I'm comfortable adding the replacements to this current shrimp tank. 

@clownplanted @natemcnutty I almost used Controsoil for this tank, but the lack of reviews on amazon deterred me. After I set up my tank with fluval I read a great post here about controsoil and started regretting the fluval, but what can you do. I don't plan on setting up too many other tanks for now, but I'll keep it in mind in the future. Ordering some of those veg sticks. How do you guys feel about alder cones / cholla wood? Do you leave the molts in the tank or remove them? I heard the shrimp will eat them, but they haven't touch any of them.


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## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

Yeah, substrates are really a matter of preference, but I do like something that lasts a little longer.

Only concern with AA is they sell imports which *can* (read not always) have issues with bad parameters and diseases (many are farm raised in ponds). It's more of a gamble, but like you said, they counter that issue by over ordering and taking care of whatever doesn't make it.

As for alder cones and cholla wood, both are great. Many people put slow growing moss like fissidens on cholla in their shrimp tanks.

Molts - always leave them in. They will eat them when they need the added calcium, and they won't hurt your water quality in any way by leaving them in.

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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

Pluke said:


> I ordered them from Aquatic Arts. Which I'm hesitant to say, because I don't want people to think I'm disappointed with them. They've been very understanding and have had excellent customer care so far as well as fast shipping. They are going to replace the shrimp that I lost within the first day of receiving them as well. I also ordered a plant from them (Brazilian Pennywort) and they gave me way more than I was expecting and I was really happy with that. I'm planning to order more stuff from them in the future when my other tank is settled and I'm comfortable adding the replacements to this current shrimp tank.
> 
> @clownplanted @natemcnutty I almost used Controsoil for this tank, but the lack of reviews on amazon deterred me. After I set up my tank with fluval I read a great post here about controsoil and started regretting the fluval, but what can you do. I don't plan on setting up too many other tanks for now, but I'll keep it in mind in the future. Ordering some of those veg sticks. How do you guys feel about alder cones / cholla wood? Do you leave the molts in the tank or remove them? I heard the shrimp will eat them, but they haven't touch any of them.




Love alder cones and cholla wood. Use both in my tanks. I use the cholla wood that has some buces and Fissidens attached. I'll try to find a pic of mine. Also use the alder cones. Both are great shrimp tank additions. I also use the kens veggie sticks again thanks to @natemcnutty recommendation. Leave the molts in. They munch on them. Surprised they haven't started to eat them yet mine usually do right away. 


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

natemcnutty said:


> You can also grow emersed plants out of them. I think it was @geisterwald that I saw doing that, and it gave me the idea of using buffering substrate in them
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


Haha I haven't done that but I've definitely recommended it! It's a really cool idea.


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## Pluke (Jun 17, 2017)

Alright, cool. I'm ordering cones and cholla as well with the ken veggie sticks. Once again, thanks guys. Learning a lot from this thread.


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

Pluke said:


> Alright, cool. I'm ordering cones and cholla as well with the ken veggie sticks. Once again, thanks guys. Learning a lot from this thread.


A good article that explains the different kinds of shrimp food and many were put to the test. A good read. For me out of a few different kinds of food I have the kens veggie sticks are a top hit by all the CRS. They swarm to and stay interested in them. Too bad they did not test the kens veggie sticks in this article as I feel they would be one of the top. Check it out. Another tip is if you do not have already get a food bowl. This makes for keeping the substrate cleaner MUCH easier. Just remove the bowl when done and no mess. 
The BIG shrimp food test ? Practical Fishkeeping Magazine


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## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

Another option for feeding instead of a glass dish is the glass cup that sticks to the side of the aquarium (like $3 on eBay). Here's an example for an idea: Aquarium Fish Tank Glass Live Plant Cup Pot Crystal Red Shrimp Holder https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01K6JM020/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_HgcEzb8DRSTRF

Advantage is that you get floor space back and stuff doesn't get stuck under the dish.


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## H_C (Feb 25, 2017)

Pluke said:


> The tank is about a month old at this point. I just got a response and their tds is between 180 and 225 and they supplement with pieces of cuttlebone. My tds has been at 130 and is now 150, I need to raise it more apparently. I'll see if I can find some cuttlebone.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk



Didnt see you mention it.
Did you drip acclimate them? Also maybe the ones that dies are a little old. I know you paid for a certain amount but all you need is 5 with a mix of female and males and then they'll multiply like crazy.


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## Pluke (Jun 17, 2017)

H_C said:


> Didnt see you mention it.
> Did you drip acclimate them? Also maybe the ones that dies are a little old. I know you paid for a certain amount but all you need is 5 with a mix of female and males and then they'll multiply like crazy.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah, I drip acclimated them for 2 hours. They're doing good still. Hopefully it's smooth sailing from here on.

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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

Pluke said:


> Yeah, I drip acclimated them for 2 hours. They're doing good still. Hopefully it's smooth sailing from here on.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk




I think your good to go. It's just the adults that didn't fare well and that happens. The young will do good and before you know it you will have a colony going. Make sure and keep us updated, start a journal. Would love to see the progress. 


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

natemcnutty said:


> Another option for feeding instead of a glass dish is the glass cup that sticks to the side of the aquarium (like $3 on eBay). Here's an example for an idea: Aquarium Fish Tank Glass Live Plant Cup Pot Crystal Red Shrimp Holder https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01K6JM020/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_HgcEzb8DRSTRF
> 
> Advantage is that you get floor space back and stuff doesn't get stuck under the dish.




Man yet again another GFI(Great freaking idea). Just bought two. Now to wait a month lol. (Awaits your other great ideas to buy more) [emoji16][emoji23]


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## H_C (Feb 25, 2017)

natemcnutty said:


> Another option for feeding instead of a glass dish is the glass cup that sticks to the side of the aquarium (like $3 on eBay). Here's an example for an idea: Aquarium Fish Tank Glass Live Plant Cup Pot Crystal Red Shrimp Holder https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01K6JM020/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_HgcEzb8DRSTRF
> 
> Advantage is that you get floor space back and stuff doesn't get stuck under the dish.




I was looking at that as well but they dont seem to sell a flat plate not a bowl.


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## Panw (Jan 20, 2016)

I am not saying that the source is bad, it's just another possibility that the shrimps were not healthy since it looks like all your parameters are right on spot.


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## Pluke (Jun 17, 2017)

@Panw NP. The remaining shrimps seem fine, the age thing makes sense at this point. It's possible they weren't in the best condition as well, but I can't be sure.
@clownplanted I actually already have a journal for this tank, you've been already given me advice there before, lol. That's how I found out about Bacter AE, you told me. 

Here's the link: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1...33-plukes-5-gallon-planted-tank-shrimp-2.html


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

Pluke said:


> @Panw NP. The remaining shrimps seem fine, the age thing makes sense at this point. It's possible they weren't in the best condition as well, but I can't be sure.
> 
> @clownplanted I actually already have a journal for this tank, you've been already given me advice there before, lol. That's how I found out about Bacter AE, you told me.
> 
> Here's the link: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1...33-plukes-5-gallon-planted-tank-shrimp-2.html


I remember your journal now. Sorry about that. I just posted in there. Here is my journal on my CRS tank. Think I got a 4th berried today  http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/12-tank-journals/1162650-20l-crs-medium-tech-berried-crs.html


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