# Ask Me Anything; help for beginners



## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

Heya folks,

I've got some time on my hands these days and thought I'd open the floor to anyone who's got a question about aquatic plants/planted aquariums. I'll do my best to answer in as much detail as possible.

Cheers, 
Phil

<edit> 
Some months past I started writing a guide to planted aquaria and got through a couple, but not all of the planned parts. Here are a couple links to those parts. The glossary section isn't meant to be read through all at once and will be overwhelming for most hobbyists as I included a number of technical terms used only in some of the most specific technical discussions. However, all of the terms in this thread should be in here. Unfortunately, I can't edit it past where it is now as it was posted on a different account that I can't be bothered to try reinstating just to make a few edits here and there.

Part 1- Lexicon/Glossary, and basic discussion of Balance, Filters and Filter Media, Lighting, CO2 supplementation
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/8...iscussion/1133146-guide-planted-aquarium.html

Part 2- Nutrients and Nutrient Supplementation
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1...nts-nutrient-supplementation.html#post9960202 
</edit>


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## dogwood.fleet (Feb 24, 2018)

Not quite a beginner, but as long as you're here: should I go with API for a test kit? I've been hearing that their nitrate test isn't the most reliable.


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## ripstar42 (Mar 13, 2018)

what type of filter would you suggest for a beginner with a 10 gallon setup without CO2?


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

dogwood.fleet said:


> Not quite a beginner, but as long as you're here: should I go with API for a test kit? I've been hearing that their nitrate test isn't the most reliable.


If API is the best your local store has, then yeah, go with it. I'd go with Seachem's Nitrite and Nitrate test kit, but you may have to find that online. I've been to their labs and know they have legit scientists developing and testing their products so I feel comfortable recommending this kit.

Bump:


ripstar42 said:


> what type of filter would you suggest for a beginner with a 10 gallon setup without CO2?


I've always been a fan of the AquaClear series for small tanks. The only drawback is you'll have to keep the tank topped off to minimize agitation. The benefit is you can get a surface skimmer to go with it, which is a nice thing to have. Cobalt Aquatics also makes a great in-tank filter for small aquariums sold under the Clearvue series. I would recommend the 30 for a 10 gallon. If your budget allows there's always the Eheim Classic 150. The Classic series still maintains the quality of the original that newer series lack. 

If I had the budget, the Eheim would be my choice. I work for Cobalt so feel a bit iffy pushing the Clearvue too much, but it really is a good in-tank filter and doesn't take up much room. I'd say the AquaClear 20 would be good for a 10 since it can be throttled down if needed. 

Cheers,
Phil


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## dogwood.fleet (Feb 24, 2018)

Phil Edwards said:


> If API is the best your local store has, then yeah, go with it. I'd go with Seachem's Nitrite and Nitrate test kit, but you may have to find that online. I've been to their labs and know they have legit scientists developing and testing their products so I feel comfortable recommending this kit.


The good LFS in town can probably special order anything I want, it might just cost a fortune. (Everything there is expensive.) I'll see what they have in stock.


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

Dogwood,

You probably don't need to go to the "good/more expensive" LFS. I'm 99% sure another store orders from the same distributor and I know for sure that Seachem sells to all the major distributors out there. Try going to your normal independent LFS and ask to special order it.


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## dogwood.fleet (Feb 24, 2018)

Phil Edwards said:


> Dogwood,
> 
> You probably don't need to go to the "good/more expensive" LFS. I'm 99% sure another store orders from the same distributor and I know for sure that Seachem sells to all the major distributors out there. Try going to your normal independent LFS and ask to special order it.


The more expensive LFS is the one that isn't Petco. If it was just one being more expensive than the other I'd probably shop more than one store. I still do somewhat. They've got some REALLY nice setups and equipment, but a lot of it's out of my price range right now.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

dogwood.fleet said:


> The good LFS in town can probably special order anything I want, it might just cost a fortune. (Everything there is expensive.) I'll see what they have in stock.


Why don't you just purchase it online? I'm sure Amazon or bay has it.


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## Sobo (Aug 23, 2017)

Please suggest what plants can I use for this hardscape layout. The current tank is only a training tank, it will go in a rimless 20 gallon long. Thank you.


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

```

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Sobo said:


> Please suggest what plants can I use for this hardscape layout. The current tank is only a training tank, it will go in a rimless 20 gallon long. Thank you.


That's a nice wood arrangement Sobo. Could you please tell me more about the hardware you'll be using? Will you have high/low light, CO2/no CO2, etc.

Cheers,
Phil


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## Sobo (Aug 23, 2017)

Hi, these will be certainly a high-tech setup. Aquasoil, co2, surface skimmer the whole deal. I have kept a collecteritis tank for the last three years so I think I can grow medium difficulty plants.


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

For a Nature Aquarium style
HC for the ground cover
Staurogyne repens and moss covered rocks intermixed along the inner edge of the wood
Blyxa japonica for the left front and along the lowest branch of the left wood group (this is to hide the bottom parts of the stems behind)
Anubias nana 'Petite' on the wood
A mix of your preferred stemplants in the rest of the space.

For just a general "planted aquarium with the good stuff" with species chosen from Tropica's 1-2 Grow tissue culture series that I remember the store I worked at was able to get. They don't necessarily need to be the Tropica stuff it was just a good list to go by. 

Well defined groups of:
Pogostemon helferi "Downoi"
Helianthum tenellum
Pogostemon erectus
Rotala 'Bonsai'
Alternanthera reineckii 'Mini' (way overused these days, but is a good size for a 20L)
Rotala macrandra
Heteranthera zosterfolia
Saggiteria subdulata
Weeping moss for the wood, or a bunch of different Bucephalandra, up to you.  


For my next trick; tell me what fish you want to keep and I'll do a plant list for them.

Cheers,
Phil


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## jims123 (Mar 9, 2018)

*Couple newbie questions*



Phil Edwards said:


> Heya folks,
> 
> I've got some time on my hands these days and thought I'd open the floor to anyone who's got a question about aquatic plants/planted aquariums. I'll do my best to answer in as much detail as possible.
> 
> ...


Hi Phil, 
Thanks for volunteering to help.. I set up this planted tank last Saturday (see photo attached) , it's my 1st and here are my questions.. 

1.) based on the bubbles you see in the top center from the dispersion tube above it, is there too much water flow? is a lot of flow harmful to either plants or fish?

2.) based on the amount of light you see here, what plants should be moved to a different location to get more (or less) light from the LED? 

3.) how long ( in hours) should I set a timer for on the LED, and does it make any significant difference to the fish or plants if I set the LED on during daylight, or at night when it's dark outside? the 20 gal tank ( with Pentax 1000 Elite canister) is in shade throughout the day..

Anyway Thanks again for the help..
JimS


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## Sobo (Aug 23, 2017)

Phil Edwards said:


> For a Nature Aquarium style
> HC for the ground cover
> Staurogyne repens and moss covered rocks intermixed along the inner edge of the wood
> Blyxa japonica for the left front and along the lowest branch of the left wood group (this is to hide the bottom parts of the stems behind)
> ...


Thank you Phil! 
For fish, I'm thinking a trio of dwarf gouramis (1 male, 2 females) and a school of red neon tetras.


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

You're quite welcome. The second of the two lists would be better for the gouramis.


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## benosa562 (Feb 14, 2018)

Thanks in advance for helping us noobs out!! I just recently set up a 12x12x12 cube and just loaded it with various plants and 5 cardinal tetras. My questions, do you think I need more light? It's a no name led I got with the tank. Also, how long should I be keeping the lights on?

The filter is a sunsun hbl303 that I also got with the tank. I was wondering if a cannister filter would be a but over kill since this will be a low tech tank. 






























Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## BettaLover1233 (Mar 6, 2018)

Is Levamisole safe for cherry shrimp and assassin snails?


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

jims123 said:


> Hi Phil,
> Thanks for volunteering to help.. I set up this planted tank last Saturday (see photo attached) , it's my 1st and here are my questions..
> 
> 1.) based on the bubbles you see in the top center from the dispersion tube above it, is there too much water flow? is a lot of flow harmful to either plants or fish?
> ...


Heya Jim,

You've asked some pretty circumstantial questions so I've got some questions for you (and answers too).

Q1- There doesn't seem to be too much flow. The bubbles are mostly going straight up and the fish don't appear distressed. In fact, you may need more flow or to redirect the flow for greater circulation throughout the tank.

Q2- The light we see best is actually the part of the spectrum plants use least. Could you please tell me what sort of light it is? For example, a stock fixture in the canopy, model and brand of light if it was a separate purchase.

Q3- I doesn't matter one way or the other if the light is on at night or during the day. I typically set my timer so the light's on when I'm home to see it in the evening.

Regards,
Phil

Bump:


BettaLover1233 said:


> Is Levamisole safe for cherry shrimp and assassin snails?


My opinion is that no medications are safe for invertebrates. A dewormer like Levamisole could be even more toxic as it's designed to kill invertebrate animals. I'm no expert on ornamental inverts for our tanks; my opinions are based on my training as a biologist. I would remove the fish to a quarantine/hospital tank for treatment.

Cheers,
Phil


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

benosa562 said:


> Thanks in advance for helping us noobs out!! I just recently set up a 12x12x12 cube and just loaded it with various plants and 5 cardinal tetras. My questions, do you think I need more light? It's a no name led I got with the tank. Also, how long should I be keeping the lights on?
> 
> The filter is a sunsun hbl303 that I also got with the tank. I was wondering if a cannister filter would be a but over kill since this will be a low tech tank. sunsun hbl303



Benosa,

Since you're going with the low tech approach it looks to me like you've done things the right way. Loading the tank with plants from the start is great and using a strong filter will pay off in the long run. I'm of the opinion that there is no such thing as too much filtration. When I set up my nano reef in a tank with the exact same dimensions as yours I used an AquaClear 20. It looks to me like you've got pretty good filtration with the HBL-303 so I'd stick with it. If you do decide to go with a canister filter I would highly recommend the Eheim Classic 150. It's a solid design for small aquaria and is still built to the quality that Eheim was known for. Amano ran them on the small tanks in his gallery until they came up with their own equivalent. 

As far as the lighting goes, for a low tech tank, low light is better for a beginner. If possible, I'd increase the white diode output and reduce the blue diode output. If that's not possible, then go with it and see how it works. If you don't have a build journal going already, why don't you start one? That's a great way to get input and answers to questions as you continue with the hobby.

Regards,
Phil


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Phil just got to say I love this thread!

You are now the "Ask Ann Landers" of TPT!

Great to see your contributions. Maybe we can all learn something.


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

Greggz said:


> Phil just got to say I love this thread!
> 
> You are now the "Ask Ann Landers" of TPT!
> 
> Great to see your contributions. Maybe we can all learn something.


As long as I'm not Ask Miss Manners. I pick my nose and swear too much.


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## dogwood.fleet (Feb 24, 2018)

I'm putting a new 29G on carpet and the tank is not level by about 1/4 inch on the left side. I shimmed the last tank I had in that spot, but now I'm looking at stuff being both for and against shimming. Should I shim my stand?


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

dogwood.fleet said:


> I'm putting a new 29G on carpet and the tank is not level by about 1/4 inch on the left side. I shimmed the last tank I had in that spot, but now I'm looking at stuff being both for and against shimming. Should I shim my stand?


The answer is a resounding yes. You should shim and reinforce it as much as possible. A stand should be absolutely level in both the side to side and front to back axes. Doing anything else risks bursting a seal and potentially shattering a pane.


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## dogwood.fleet (Feb 24, 2018)

Phil Edwards said:


> The answer is a resounding yes. You should shim and reinforce it as much as possible. A stand should be absolutely level in both the side to side and front to back axes. Doing anything else risks bursting a seal and potentially shattering a pane.


Thanks, that's what I thought but didn't want to start pounding stuff in and then have to try to remove it.


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## ripstar42 (Mar 13, 2018)

Phil Edwards said:


> Benosa,
> 
> Since you're going with the low tech approach it looks to me like you've done things the right way. Loading the tank with plants from the start is great and using a strong filter will pay off in the long run. I'm of the opinion that there is no such thing as too much filtration. When I set up my nano reef in a tank with the exact same dimensions as yours I used an AquaClear 20. It looks to me like you've got pretty good filtration with the HBL-303 so I'd stick with it. If you do decide to go with a canister filter I would highly recommend the Eheim Classic 150. It's a solid design for small aquaria and is still built to the quality that Eheim was known for. Amano ran them on the small tanks in his gallery until they came up with their own equivalent.
> 
> ...


This answers a few questions I was going to ask(already asked you what would work best). Regarding filtration, I have a extra AquaClear 50 from a old aquarium, would this be far too much for a 10 gallon planted(even after adjustments)? I ordered a Dennerle Scalpers tank and it comes with a Eckfilter. Best to not even use that if the 50 is adequate? 

Any suggestions on mos that could grow under low tech with the above filter?

Thanks a lot!!


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

ripstar42 said:


> This answers a few questions I was going to ask(already asked you what would work best). Regarding filtration, I have a extra AquaClear 50 from a old aquarium, would this be far too much for a 10 gallon planted(even after adjustments)? I ordered a Dennerle Scalpers tank and it comes with a Eckfilter. Best to not even use that if the 50 is adequate?
> 
> Any suggestions on mos that could grow under low tech with the above filter?
> 
> Thanks a lot!!


I'd say an AC50 would be too much for a 10 gallon unless unless it were a reef. I've seen the Dennerle Scaper tanks in person at a trade show and have to say I think they're good systems. Go with what they give you to start with and then make hardware adjustments only if needed. 

I would say nearly every moss would grow in that tank under low tech conditions. Some might do better than others, but just about all of them will grow.

Regards,
Phil


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## jims123 (Mar 9, 2018)

Phil Edwards said:


> Heya Jim,
> 
> You've asked some pretty circumstantial questions so I've got some questions for you (and answers too).
> 
> ...


Thanks Phil
in reply to Q1: the bubbles you see are coming from the 6 fairly strong jets of water shooting down from the canister outlet tube. I wish I could send a video to show this easily because there is so much flow that unless the fish are sleeping on the bottom at night they are always fighting against a clockwise current that moves them about an inch per second and has all the leaves under it waving constantly. I'll guess it circulates all the water Clock-Wise a full rotation every 30 seconds or so.. I was worried it might be too much since most of the YT videos of aqua-scapes I've seen seem to have almost no flow.

Q2: the 10 Watt LED is full spectrum but I have the smaller 11 inch long one .. I think I'll get the next longer size 19 inch size to be sure the plants on the far left and right side ( like the Scarlet Temple on the right) get enough light. I may move a couple this weekend too.. 

I got the LED here on Amazon for $26. and like the way the remote controller works.. 
I'm going to ask and try find out what the PAR value range is in a 20 gal 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B017Z6QWVC/ref=ask_ql_qh_dp_hza

Q3: understood .. I'll get one and set my timer the same. :laugh2:

Thanks Again Phil, I appreciate the help.... 
:wink2::wink2::grin2::fish:


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## dogwood.fleet (Feb 24, 2018)

I need to attach my Python to a half inch male pipe thread. None of the hardware stores in town have been helpful and the LFS said to try another hardware store. I have plants arriving tomorrow. Should I try to order the part online and dump the plants in a bucket for now?


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## aforred (Mar 14, 2018)

I'm brand new at this, just setting up a 75 gallon tank. What information is crucial to a good journal, and what information is nice to have?


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## jims123 (Mar 9, 2018)

Phil,
I posted a reply but it has not displayed here yet.. how long should it normally take for replies to get "screened " thru admin or whomever before they actually show up in the thread? if its supposed to be nearly instantaneous .. my last musta blew up and i'll re-submit it, but if it takes a while for someone to read and approve Posts I'll wait.. Just curious..

Nevermind... I see they should post almost immediately .. I must have messed it up the 1st time.. will re-reply to your reply now .


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## Acro (Jul 7, 2012)

This is fun!

I have 2 questions, first:
What is the best place to get about 100 fancy guppy females (with out breaking the bank)? 

And:
Test kits for aquarium water have been around for decades. There are strips and drop kits. They test pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, hardness and sometimes other parameters. Is there a test kit that can just sit in the water and monitor changes, kind of like a thermometer does, for all (or at least some) of the normal parameters? If there are, what water quality monitors can you suggest?

Thanks!


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## Smellydeli (Jun 14, 2012)

Assuming that I don't have a quarantine tank. When adding new fish to an already established tank with fish, should I dose "general" antibiotics or antiparasitics as a precaution or only when symptoms occur?


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Seneye Reef will monitor "some" of the basic parameters.


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## jims123 (Mar 9, 2018)

Phil Edwards said:


> Heya Jim,
> 
> You've asked some pretty circumstantial questions so I've got some questions for you (and answers too).
> 
> ...


Hi Phil I'll try this again:
1st Thank you for your reply and here are some answers to your questions..

Q1: the water's forced down from the canister vent tube at I believe 350 GPH and the 6 
jets cause the water to circulate pretty fast. the Fish are constantly swimming against it and I think they drift about an inch per second if they stop. I'm guessing all the water makes a full rotation around the tank once every 30 seconds or less. I was worried this was to much, but will try to get a link to a video so you can see this better than in a still pic and tell me if it's really too low a flow..

Q2: I currently have the 11 inch version of this LED but just ordered the 19 inch and I believe that should be enough light for the Scarlet Temple once I re-plant it out of the shade from the driftwood. 
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01NBAQHTE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Q3: Ok thanks .. how long should I run the LED timer ON typically during the day? 

Thanks again Phil.. Hope it posts this time.. here's my tank photo again..


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## Acro (Jul 7, 2012)

Immortal1 said:


> Seneye Reef will monitor "some" of the basic parameters.


Wow, that Seneye Reef is amazing! Thank you for the suggestion! 



.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

"Dear Abby" oops sorry, "Dear Phil" How does your Garden Grow?


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Maryland Guppy said:


> "Dear Abby" oops sorry, "Dear Phil" How does your Garden Grow?


LOL!:grin2:

MG we might need you to pick up the slack.

One of you could be Abigail Van Buren, and the other Esther Pauline "Eppie" Lederer.

Between the two of you are all the answers!:smile2:

I wish you guys were around when I started!


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## dogwood.fleet (Feb 24, 2018)

Acro said:


> This is fun!
> 
> I have 2 questions, first:
> What is the best place to get about 100 fancy guppy females (with out breaking the bank)?
> Thanks!


Obligatory joke- get 10 female guppies and wait 3 months.


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## The Bungulo (Aug 28, 2017)

can you update your Green Acres thread?


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Greggz said:


> LOL!:grin2:
> 
> Between the two of you are all the answers!:smile2:
> 
> I wish you guys were around when I started!


Let it be known I am no expert at this!

Minimal plants through late 60's and early 70's.
Many species of phish breeding during this time.

80's through early 90's SW and reef experiments.

Past 5 years planted tanks only!

When this bug started again I was amazed at the amount of available plants.
The reason why I have been trying all I can get ahold of.

For me a stay @ home hobby.
Experimentation of many species of plants.
Sharpening of the mind, ferts, molecular weights, calcs, spreadsheets, etc...
Woodworking skills building canopies etc...
Electronic projects building LED solutions for high PAR.

All this until riding season begins!
My horse is hot and ready to run! >


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

Acro said:


> This is fun!
> 
> I have 2 questions, first:
> What is the best place to get about 100 fancy guppy females (with out breaking the bank)?
> ...



Been a while since I've seen you around Acro. 

You can always contact a breeder and ask for culls. Just be very clear to make sure he/she understands they're strictly for pets. It could be a hard sell as you could legitimately claim sub-par fish were from XYZ and a lot of breeders may not appreciate that. A local club is another good place. 

If you've got a REALLY REALLY good quarantine system, you could always try feeders. 

I'm not terribly familiar with hobby grade monitor brands other than Apex and they're out of most folks' price range. I think Greggz answered the quest best. If you want more than that you'll have to start looking into research level sondes and such. They're available, and if you've got the money to burn, can be really really cool to have. 

Cheers,
Phil

Bump:


dogwood.fleet said:


> I need to attach my Python to a half inch male pipe thread. None of the hardware stores in town have been helpful and the LFS said to try another hardware store. I have plants arriving tomorrow. Should I try to order the part online and dump the plants in a bucket for now?


Are you trying to adapt it to your sink? If so, take one of the FPT parts to the store and try out a few different bits. That's what I had to do when I wanted to do the same. Make sure to buy a few extras for future use. They don't always come back out easily. A bucket would be ok for a day. If possible I'd put them in your tank and just barely cover them with water; including taking anything out of a pot and separating out bunches of stems. 99% of the time the plants are grown out of the water anyway so this shouldn't harm them.

Regards,
Phil


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## dogwood.fleet (Feb 24, 2018)

Phil Edwards said:


> Been a while since I've seen you around Acro.
> 
> You can always contact a breeder and ask for culls. Just be very clear to make sure he/she understands they're strictly for pets. It could be a hard sell as you could legitimately claim sub-par fish were from XYZ and a lot of breeders may not appreciate that. A local club is another good place.
> 
> ...


I was trying to get it to hook onto the shower. I did the same with an Aqueon changer, but struck out at the hardware stores even with the Python parts that I had and knowing what they needed to be attached to. I ended up getting a universal adapter from Amazon which will hopefully work. The bathroom sinks have tiny bowls and I don't want water leaking onto the hardwood floor in the kitchen.

Thanks for doing this, btw.


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## timmytoes (Mar 13, 2018)

I have a 15 gallon column tank. low tech. finnex planted + 12"on the way, as well as a fluval C3. This is my first planted tank. Although CO2 isn't required for most low tech set ups, does it help? Debating on weather or not to add it to my tank. Also, I haven't bought any fertz yet. What do you recommend? What kind as well as a brief how to. Any tips that you think would help. Thank you.


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## BettaLover1233 (Mar 6, 2018)

Hmmm. Thanks for the help but,

I have camellanus worms in my tank and I think that it would be great if I could put in dewormer DIRECTLY into the tank.

I thought lemevisol would work but idk. I also plan to (if the other plan doesn't work) cycle a new tank then quarantine the fish (otto, pleco, guppys) but a type of camellanus worm can be found in shrimp too. Soo idk. 

But if there are treatents safe for plants, shrimp, and snails anyone, pls let me know. Sence u r experienced what do you think I should try to do to get rid of camellanus worms from my tank and fish?


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

Smellydeli said:


> Assuming that I don't have a quarantine tank. When adding new fish to an already established tank with fish, should I dose "general" antibiotics or antiparasitics as a precaution or only when symptoms occur?


The answer is question D; get a quarantine tank. Seriously. A cheap a$$ 10g kit from a big box pet shop works great. If, for some reason, you truly can't have a QT/hospital tank, then I would wait for symptoms to show so you know what to treat. Unless you've bought fish from said big box pet shop, then treat for both.

Regards,
Phil


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

Q1: the water's forced down from the canister vent tube at I believe 350 GPH and the 6 
jets cause the water to circulate pretty fast. the Fish are constantly swimming against it and I think they drift about an inch per second if they stop. I'm guessing all the water makes a full rotation around the tank once every 30 seconds or less. I was worried this was to much, but will try to get a link to a video so you can see this better than in a still pic and tell me if it's really too low a flow..

*You may have too much flow for the fish then. Are you able to reduce output flow on the canister? If so, go for it.*

Q2: I currently have the 11 inch version of this LED but just ordered the 19 inch and I believe that should be enough light for the Scarlet Temple once I re-plant it out of the shade from the driftwood. 

*That looks like it will be more like than you need. Don't be afraid to use the dimmer. Light drives the metabolism of the plants; the higher the light the faster the metabolism, and the increasing need for "tech". If you're going low tech, keep the light on the low side. You'll have to experiment to figure out the sweet spot for your system, but I wouldn't go above half. A bit of advice; don't expect pearling or the super lush look high folks with high tech tanks have. Low tech systems can't achieve that 99% of the time unless they're years old and are well settled. Lots of folks starting out fall into that trap and end up getting so frustrated that they quit. Just like the light, take it easy, make small adjustments each time, and you'll find your sweet spot in the hobby.*

Q3: Ok thanks .. how long should I run the LED timer ON typically during the day? 

*I would start at 6 hrs/day and have it on when you're home to see it. Eventually the goal is to get to 8 hrs, but you need to get experience keeping the tank and the plants need time to settle in before increasing light. Again, like rules everything in the tank and determines everything except fish feeding. Don't overdo it and you'll do just fine. Don't forget to start a build thread in the Low Tech area so you can have a place all your own to share progress and get regular feedback.

Unsolicited advice- This is YOUR tank. Don't let anyone else push you into doing things (Unless you ask me for answers on what to do /irony.  ). YOU are the one who sees the tank everyday. YOU are the one who cares for it. YOU do what YOU enjoy with YOUR tank and YOUR hobby. *

Thanks again Phil.. Hope it posts this time.. here's my tank photo again..[/QUOTE]

You're welcome again,
Phil

Bump:


Maryland Guppy said:


> "Dear Abby" oops sorry, "Dear Phil" How does your Garden Grow?


With:

CO2 @ 12ish BPS
2x 54w T5HO 6 hrs/day
7.5ppm NO3 3x/wk
1.0ppm PO4 3x/wk
20ppm Ca 1x/wk
5ppm Mg 1x/wk
Traces 3x/wk
60% WC 1x/wk



Bump:


The Bungulo said:


> can you update your Green Acres thread?


I updated pictures of the tank the other day and just put a new picture up before posting.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/12-tank-journals/1223466-green-acres-80-gal-high-tech.html


----------



## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

dogwood.fleet said:


> I was trying to get it to hook onto the shower. I did the same with an Aqueon changer, but struck out at the hardware stores even with the Python parts that I had and knowing what they needed to be attached to. I ended up getting a universal adapter from Amazon which will hopefully work. The bathroom sinks have tiny bowls and I don't want water leaking onto the hardwood floor in the kitchen.
> 
> Thanks for doing this, btw.


Glad to hear you found a solution. :thumbsup:

You're quite welcome. I enjoy it, and like Greggz said. I wish I'd had someone to do this when I was starting out.


----------



## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

timmytoes said:


> I have a 15 gallon column tank. low tech. finnex planted + 12"on the way, as well as a fluval C3. This is my first planted tank. Although CO2 isn't required for most low tech set ups, does it help? Debating on weather or not to add it to my tank. Also, I haven't bought any fertz yet. What do you recommend? What kind as well as a brief how to. Any tips that you think would help. Thank you.


There's been a lot of debate on the necessity of CO2 in low tech tanks since the hobby started, but I'm going to say this. *CO2 benefits planted systems 100% of the time; high tech, low tech, or no tech and I personally advocate using CO2 in every single planted system. I won't do a planted tank without CO2 of some sort again.* After light, CO2 is the most important and essential thing one can add to a planted tank. For your tank, getting an LED fixture that can put out decent light, I would get an ISTA setup (unless you have the money for a full pressurized gas system). They're not inexpensive, but they're well worth the investment and will pay dividends over the long term.

For beginners I recommend using one of the brands of liquid fertilizers for a couple of reasons.

1. They're much harder to overdose.
2. They typically have good directions that are easy to understand.
3. No recognized brand; Seachem, NilocG, Brightwell, etc will sell a product that would harm your tank as it would put them out of business. 
4. Being able to not worry so much about fertilization allows you to observe your tank more and learn how the plants and overall ecosystem responds to the things you add. 

Yes, dry ferts are cheaper per unit of active ingredient, but there's also a steep learning curve associated with them. As a beginner you're better off cutting your teeth, as it were, using premade liquids, even if you are a chemist or biologist.  

For now, I would get the CO2 and leave it at that while you learn how it affects things. That may end up being all you need. If not, then look into ferts. I'm familiar with Seachem so would recommend their Flourish line, but people I respect highly have said good things about Thrive, and there are fewer bottles to worry about. The choice is yours. Whichever you pick, just follow their directions as written. Breaking the rules will come once you've learned the rules. 

Regards,
Phil

Bump:


BettaLover1233 said:


> Hmmm. Thanks for the help but,
> 
> I have camellanus worms in my tank and I think that it would be great if I could put in dewormer DIRECTLY into the tank.
> 
> ...


If it's that bad and you're willing to take the risk, dose the tank. Otherwise get a QT going as fast as you can, treat the fish, and keep them out until the worms die. That's the best alternative I can offer. 

Phil


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## ThatSkrimpyboio (Mar 15, 2018)

What are some large but peaceful cihlids. I am building a 120 gallon that will be heavily planted, staying from 80°-90°,sand substrate, have lots of dragon stone, bogwood and spider wood, will have medium lighting, a powerful canister filter
And will hopefully be inhavitated with a male and female African Leaf Fish and a large colony of cherry shrimp (300-400). I would prefer Cichlid living in or around North and South America and/or Africa.


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

ThatSkrimpyboio said:


> What are some large but peaceful cihlids. I am building a 120 gallon that will be heavily planted, staying from 80°-90°,sand substrate, have lots of dragon stone, bogwood and spider wood, will have medium lighting, a powerful canister filter
> And will hopefully be inhavitated with a male and female African Leaf Fish and a large colony of cherry shrimp (300-400). I would prefer Cichlid living in or around North and South America and/or Africa.


Unfortunately, cichlids and shrimp don't mix. Even rams will go after the smaller ones and eventually your colony will age out and die as the young get eaten. Acara and Severums are nice peaceful cichlids that do well in planted tanks, but they get kind of large 6-8" is a good average. Angels are a perennial classic. If you're willing to put in the effort ahead of time, growing out young discus in a non-planted tank, then planting it when they're full size is always an option too. If you've got the money, buying adults from a reputable breeder is a great option. Any of the dwarf cichlids: Apistogramma, Rams, and Pelvicachromis species are ideal for heavily planted tanks. 

Hope this helps,
Phil


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## ThatSkrimpyboio (Mar 15, 2018)

Thx and i will not put shrimp in. But I have decided on the fish I will put in and I was wondering if any of your original options will still work
1.angel fish
2. Bristle nose pleco
3.african leaf fish
4.eletrick blue Cichlids
5. Turquoise jewel Cichlids
6.pearl,sunset and blue gourami
7.Birchir 
I was also wondering if I could put in a pair of firemouths


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## ThatSkrimpyboio (Mar 15, 2018)

Also if I could stay under the $10 range that would be better


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## SandraW (Mar 15, 2018)

Hi, 
I want a stock suggestion.
I currently have silver hatchet-fish, neon tetras, glowlight tetras, and otocinclus in a planted 20 long with plenty of places to hide. 
Was thinking of adding 1 very colorful fish. Need something that will be happy as a single fish among the communities.
Thanks in advance


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## rosyrobyn (Feb 14, 2018)

I bought some stones for my SpecV tank that I'm setting up and when I tested them with vinegar I could hear the sizzling. Since the tank is only 5.5 gallons, I'm concerned that my water chemistry won't be stable. I also bought dry ferts for EI dosing so I was intending to do 50% weekly water changes instead of several little ones. During the week, will hardness just keep going up and then suddenly drop when I do a water change? I was hoping to keep some RCS and a group of small tetras.









Any plant suggestions? I'm planning on using stock lights, pressurized CO2 and EI dosing.


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

ThatSkrimpyboio said:


> Thx and i will not put shrimp in. But I have decided on the fish I will put in and I was wondering if any of your original options will still work
> 1.angel fish
> 2. Bristle nose pleco
> 3.african leaf fish
> ...


I'd leave the Bichir out as they're predatory. Otherwise the list looks good. Just make sure to put pots in for the cichlids to spawn in and don't be surprised if some of them uproot plants to make a nest.

Bump:


SandraW said:


> Hi,
> I want a stock suggestion.
> I currently have silver hatchet-fish, neon tetras, glowlight tetras, and otocinclus in a planted 20 long with plenty of places to hide.
> Was thinking of adding 1 very colorful fish. Need something that will be happy as a single fish among the communities.
> Thanks in advance


Hey there Sandra and welcome to The Planted Tank! Would you please tell me how many of each of the above fish you have and what filtration you've got running? If you can upload a picture of the tank that would be helpful too.


----------



## ThatSkrimpyboio (Mar 15, 2018)

So even the fire mouths as well?


----------



## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

rosyrobyn said:


> I bought some stones for my SpecV tank that I'm setting up and when I tested them with vinegar I could hear the sizzling. Since the tank is only 5.5 gallons, I'm concerned that my water chemistry won't be stable. I also bought dry ferts for EI dosing so I was intending to do 50% weekly water changes instead of several little ones. During the week, will hardness just keep going up and then suddenly drop when I do a water change? I was hoping to keep some RCS and a group of small tetras.
> 
> 
> Any plant suggestions? I'm planning on using stock lights, pressurized CO2 and EI dosing.


If those rocks are indeed carbonate-bearing then yes, your water chemistry will change as the CO2 converts to carbonic acid and eats away at the carbonate in the rock. You're right to be concerned about fluctuation in such a small volume of water. I want to commend you for testing and doing research ahead of time. Lots of folks don't. 

If that substrate is something like Fluval Stratum or Amazonia, it will help keep KH in check, but it won't handle it all. My suggestion would be to either get new rock, or forego the high tech route. If you do decide to continue with CO2 and fertilizers a Smidge, Dash, and Pinch (1/16, 1/32, and 1/64 tsp) measuring spoon set will be really helpful. 

In small tanks like that I would stick with Hemianthus callitrichoides (HC), small grassy plants, Anubias nana 'Petite', small Bucephalandra, and fine leaved stems such as Rotala wallichi, Ludwigia brevipes, Didiplis diandra, and the like.

Hope this helps,
Phil

Bump:


ThatSkrimpyboio said:


> So even the fire mouths as well?


In a 120? As long as you only got a pair, sure. They'll likely be your most aggressive of the cichlids, but they should have space to do their thing and not cause trouble.


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## ThatSkrimpyboio (Mar 15, 2018)

Are the fire mouths okay ? Cause I really like them and am hoping to put some inside


----------



## SquigglyThing (Oct 15, 2017)

I have a reasonably big Amazon Sword, and would like to make cuttings/propagate it. How do I do that?


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

Yes, but I'd stick to a single pair. If you really like them, then I'd not put the other cichlids in and go with Firemouths by themselves.


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## ThatSkrimpyboio (Mar 15, 2018)

Thank you and I will stick with 2 and sorry hadnt seen the post above mine. And Can I replace the birchir with a ropefish?


----------



## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

SquigglyThing said:


> I have a reasonably big Amazon Sword, and would like to make cuttings/propagate it. How do I do that?


Swords will take care of that on their own for you once they reach what I call critical mass. If conditions are right and they're happy enough the large sword species will send out a stem looking runner that will grow smaller plants as long as you make sure it stays underwater. If it goes above the water you'll get flowers. 

Regards,
Phil


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## ThatSkrimpyboio (Mar 15, 2018)

Thanks phil


----------



## Shaythesalmon (Jan 29, 2018)

How do you keep a hospital/QT tank cycled between having fish in there?


----------



## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

ThatSkrimpyboio said:


> Thank you and I will stick with 2 and sorry hadnt seen the post above mine. And Can I replace the birchir with a ropefish?


I don't have experience with ropefish, but I've seen a journal here of someone who's keeping them successfully. Try looking that one up.

Regards,
Phil


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## SquigglyThing (Oct 15, 2017)

The sword is in a flowerpot of potting soil with a sand cap that is 4" by 12" and the plant is 10" high, and 12" wide in every direction. I don't see any babies. Is it potbound? How much bigger does it have to get before it has a baby? Can I cut off part of it at the roots and get two plants?


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## rosyrobyn (Feb 14, 2018)

Thanks Phil. I'm using amazonia but I assume that as it ages it won't be able to buffer as well (12 months?). I really like the stone so I'd like to try to work around it as much as possible. Maybe do small daily water changes and try to dose ferts daily on an as-needed basis instead of EI?


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

Shaythesalmon said:


> How do you keep a hospital/QT tank cycled between having fish in there?


You've got a few options. If you know you're going to need to quarantine some new fish, hanging an extra bag of filter media in a running tank will seed it. Also, squeezing out sponges from an active filter into the QT tank ahead of time will help seed the filter as well. Keeping a "sacrificial fish" in there full time works too. If you're medicating, you're going to kill off the filter bacteria so you'll need to keep an eye on ammonia and such. Hopefully you won't have to have a lot of fish in there if you're medicating. 

Regards,
Phil

Bump:


SquigglyThing said:


> The sword is in a flowerpot of potting soil with a sand cap that is 4" by 12" and the plant is 10" high, and 12" wide in every direction. I don't see any babies. Is it potbound? How much bigger does it have to get before it has a baby? Can I cut off part if it at the roots and get two plants?


It could be potbound, yes. I can't say for sure how big it needs to be to throw out a runner as it all depends on the environment the plant's in. I would suggest against splitting the plant itself as you'll likely kill it. I'm sure some people have had success splitting a big sword, but I would still recommend against it. If you can give it a bigger pot or plant it directly in the substrate it may be enough to give it what it needs. Adding root fertilization could help as well.

Regards,
Phil


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## SandraW (Mar 15, 2018)

Phil Edwards said:


> Hey there Sandra and welcome to The Planted Tank! Would you please tell me how many of each of the above fish you have and what filtration you've got running? If you can upload a picture of the tank that would be helpful too.












Not the best picture, but you can get an idea of what I have. I'm planning to replace that rock in the middle with a cave. It has 2 double sponge filters (each is rated for 20 gal) I really just put the second one in there because I had it. 
There are 5 hatchetfish, 6 glowlights, 5 neons, and 3 otocinclus also a couple of random pest snails that came with the plants.


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

rosyrobyn said:


> Thanks Phil. I'm using amazonia but I assume that as it ages it won't be able to buffer as well (12 months?). I really like the stone so I'd like to try to work around it as much as possible. Maybe do small daily water changes and try to dose ferts daily on an as-needed basis instead of EI?


If it's Amazonia then it's got enough nutrients to last quite a while without needing to add things except perhaps Calcium, Magnesium, and Potassium depending on your source water. If you look at the progression of additives ADA recommends, Brighty K is near the top and that's a Potassium additive. If it were my tank, I'd get it running without the light and let the initial ammonia release cycle the tank and add CO2 at the same time to see how hardness and such change. No lights, no fertilizers, just water and CO2 while the tank's cycling. 

Regards,
Phil

Bump:


SandraW said:


> Not the best picture, but you can get an idea of what I have. I'm planning to replace that rock in the middle with a cave. It has 2 double sponge filters (each is rated for 20 gal) I really just put the second one in there because I had it.
> There are 5 hatchetfish, 6 glowlights, 5 neons, and 3 otocinclus also a couple of random pest snails that came with the plants.


A male Paradise Fish or a Dwarf Gourami would go especially well in there since you're using sponge filtration. 

Regards,
Phil


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## ThatSkrimpyboio (Mar 15, 2018)

Phil Edwards said:


> ThatSkrimpyboio said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you and I will stick with 2 and sorry hadnt seen the post above mine. And Can I replace the birchir with a ropefish?
> ...


Thx and can you tell me who was ?


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

I'm sorry, I don't remember who. Check the Tank Journal section.


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## rosyrobyn (Feb 14, 2018)

Phil Edwards said:


> ...No lights, no fertilizers, just water and CO2 while the tank's cycling...


No plants? Should I do the dry start method to give the plants a head start?


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## ThatSkrimpyboio (Mar 15, 2018)

Thanks anyway


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

rosyrobyn said:


> No plants? Should I do the dry start method to give the plants a head start?


Nope, no plants. Running CO2 without anything in there will let you test the changes in hardness without worrying about things living in the tank and the no light thing will prevent algae while the tank cycles. If the GH and KH don't change much with the CO2 on you could go ahead and try running it when it comes time to add plants. Give it at least two weeks though so you can check consistency; a month would be better (while the tank cycles). Amazonia puts off a LOT of ammonia for the first month or so. If you had it going with light, CO2, plants, and fish right from the start you'd be doing water changes every day. Patience now will pay big dividends down the road; especially for such a small tank.

Cheers,
Phil


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## ThatSkrimpyboio (Mar 15, 2018)

Also what are some good substrate fertilizers because I've been resherching and I just want to get an experts opinion besides the internet


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## Clemroc (Jun 7, 2017)

Hello Phil,

Thank you for helping out the community!

I started the hobby about a year ago (after reading a lot), and so far everything looks good in my planted aquarium. No deaths, no "excessive" algae bloom, and my fish have all reproduced on their own (from 12 to 100 blue velvet shrimp, Cory panda reproduced multiple time but no fry made it to adulthood, but I did get a new baby neon tetra, surprisingly).

My question is: I now want to get into the Co2 part of the hobby, but I do not want disposable or non-solenoid Co2 like the ISTA you mentioned earlier.
So far, my research seems to point towards GLA GRO CO2 system. Have you had any experience with this, or is there any other tip you could give me before giving Co2 a try?

Kind regards,


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## rosyrobyn (Feb 14, 2018)

Sorry for so many questions. Do I do water changes during the cycle?


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## Cmors (Jul 22, 2017)

Phil,

29 gallon tank. 
Medium to Heavy plant load.
16 Glow light Tetras. 1 sm. plecko, 1 sm. Zebra Loach

Sun Sun 302B
CO2 seeing a 1 degree change in PH 6.5 hours
Medium Light...probably close to 35PAR from a couple T8's and a 12" Current Satellite LED. 6.5 hours (times kicks in about 1.5 hours after the CO2)

Dosing EI levels with:

Monopotassium Phosphate
Potassium Nitrate
Potassium Sulfate

Nurtitrace

I don't remember the exact doses but I know that I am within the recommended levels for EI dosing

50% WC weekly


Last change was adding a decent amount of A. Reneckii to the tank.

I'm interested in hearing how one goes about making adjustments to the system after changes such as adding plants/fish.

The A. Reneckii has taken and I'm seeing new growth on all of the plants in the tank. Things are growing but I'm also getting Algae..BBA, Stag, Green spot. I know that I changed the balance. Typically I would start with the lights and CO2 durations and move to the fert's afterward. This time I feel like the lighting and CO2 are pretty set and that I should be changing the fert's to affect a change. 

Not looking for a specific magic formula, but rather insight on refining my tweaking method for finding balance again.


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

ThatSkrimpyboio said:


> Also what are some good substrate fertilizers because I've been resherching and I just want to get an experts opinion besides the internet


I like Seachem's Flourish Tabs since I've got the most experience with those. Many people also use Osmocote+ in their tanks. If you go the Osmocote route I would suggest using only two or three of the individual grains/balls for a plant that large.

Regards,
Phil

Bump:


Clemroc said:


> Hello Phil,
> 
> Thank you for helping out the community!
> 
> ...


It's my pleasure. I've found myself with a lot of time on my hands so I figured I'd do something productive with it. 

I have not used any of GLA's hardware products, but I know a lot of folks have and have had nothing but good things to say about it. GLA's got a solid reputation as far as I'm concerned, so if you have the money to spend, I'd spend it there. Looking at the system itself, it looks like a solid beginner's setup that should last a long time. Piece of advice, use an analog timer for the solenoid. Digitals get to fritzy at times.

How big's your tank, what sort of light do you have, and how do you plan to distribute the CO2 in the tank?

Bump:


rosyrobyn said:


> Sorry for so many questions. Do I do water changes during the cycle?


In this case yes, since you'll also be monitoring how the GH and KH of the water changes during the week and after water changes to see if you can continue using CO2 once you've got animals in there. It will prolong the cycle, but will give you useful information about CO2 and your tank.

Cheers,
Phil


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## jims123 (Mar 9, 2018)

Phil, 
what great advice..honestly this is terrific... especially about the lighting and water flow. I'm learning there is so much to learn about this hobby and tho it's only been 5 days, so far all the fish are still alive, my levels are good and the plants are all still growing too. So, I feel really fortunate..

I heard a lot about the importance of different lighting systems but without a PAR meter or any baseline understanding of what is to much or too little light, I've been assuming more was better but now I'll cut it back and dim it down a bit and set the timer for 6 hrs vs the 12 or so I've been running.

I never considered starting a thread on my tank in the Low Tech area..but I may do that. 
Thanks Again..and sorry for the double post.. I don't know why I couln't see it the 1st time. 
Regards, JimS


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

Cmors said:


> Phil,
> 
> 29 gallon tank.
> Medium to Heavy plant load.
> ...


My first questions to myself when similar things happen is have I changed anything lately (lights, CO2, ferts, water changes). If no, then the next question is did the CO2 run out without me knowing and when was the last time I cleaned the filter. I'm lucky in that my filter's clear and I can see how much crap's accumulating and the CO2 can's right there so I can check the gauges. 

You were right to say that adding plants changed things. You disturbed the substrate and brought in things that may not have already been in the system. Good on you for that.

If all of the technical stuff has been constant and the filter's clean, but I added or moved plants then I'll do a water change and fert dose just to get things a little bit cleaner and give me a baseline to go from. At that point it's small changes. Paying careful attention to my plants and any algae present, I may increase one nutrient or another a little bit and let it sit for a couple weeks to see how that works. If it didn't make a huge difference then I'll increase those same nutrients again. In my experience, when it comes to overcoming algae, more macros are better than less. Usually by this time any faster growers have grown enough to trim the old and algae covered stuff off and replant the newer and hopefully cleaner stems. 

There have been times when I've had GSA issues I just couldn't get a handle on for the longest time. Once I did, I went through and trimmed off all the affected leaves and that was that.

TL/DR: Be patient and make small changes while paying attention to your plants and animals while keeping the tank as clean as possible. 99% of algae issues are due to a tank and/or filter being dirty if CO2 has changed or crapped out. Then it only goes down to 75%.


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## jims123 (Mar 9, 2018)

Phil
Are there any visible tell-tale signs in a plants growth that will tell you if that particular plant is getting too much or is getting too little LED light, or fertilizer? 

How long do these symptoms normally take to show up.. can you tell in a day, or does it take more like a week to detect a problem? So far I haven't seen much change in a 5 day period but am assuming that's Ok. Is it ?

Yours in predicting plant Survival,
JimS


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## rosyrobyn (Feb 14, 2018)

Thanks for all your help Phil!


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## jims123 (Mar 9, 2018)

Phil,
I've had this filter almost 3 months and like it a lot..

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MRWPB99/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

it must have a lot of good bacterial in it now, I can't hear it at all, it hasn't leaked, and it seems to have more than twice the flow I need in my 20 gallon tank.. For most of the time, until I put in a lot of plants recently I kept the OUTLET valve at 45 degrees to cut back the flow about 50%.. I'm planning to cut it back again since the water flow appears to me to be too fast.. But here's my question:

Since the flow is good, and since I know it takes a while to build up bacteria in a canister filter, why should I clean it at all if the flow is fine? I know I should rinse the sponge and the ceramic tubes, and toss the fine and the Carbon filters, but is it important to clean it because the motor will fail sooner if I don't clean it? Or, Is it because the bacterial ammonia and nitrate/nitrite processing will degrade in effectivity if it's not cleaned .. or what? 

Just Curious,
JimS


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

aforred said:


> I'm brand new at this, just setting up a 75 gallon tank. What information is crucial to a good journal, and what information is nice to have?


Welcome to TPT aforred, sorry I missed your post until now!

That's a good question. I would say the following things are necessary to a good thread.

1. A clear and complete listing of all hardware and your fertilization regimen. This gives people who may be answering questions information to help give you an informed and useful answer.

2. Pictures. People like to see other peoples' tanks. Journals are there to be a record of a tank's progress and changes over time and nothing does that better than pictures. To that end, it's better to wait to start your journal until you've at least got the tank ready to set up unless you're handy and are doing DIY work. Lots of folks, myself included, enjoy seeing other people build the hardware for their tanks. It also gives you the opportunity to ask questions that may help to optimize space or add features you hadn't thought of yet; like a light that comes on when you open the door, etc.

3. An solid idea of what you want and what your goals are. You're going to get a lot of people telling you a lot of things from "You must do XYZ to be successful" to folks giving solid advice for you to consider. It's just a fact of life on forums that people can be pushy. In my experience that's especially true of the High-Tech Dry Fert Dosing crowd here. Always remember that it is YOUR tank that YOU look at every day so do it YOUR way to best enjoy YOUR hobby. 

There's nothing wrong with starting out slow and taking incremental steps forward as you learn more. In fact, there are many benefits of doing so. I started keeping low tech plant tanks in college and it took me three years before I had my own place and could set up a high tech system. By then I had had the time to ask people a lot of questions, learn how to observe my plants and fish for signs of things going wrong, and all that before jumping off the deep end. Yes, that Ferrari is a lot sexier than that Honda, but when you crash the Ferrari it's a lot worse than the Honda. 


What's nice to have in a journal?

1. Pictures of your hot girlfriend and cats.

2. Full Tank Shots (FTS); pictures of the full tank from the front. Up close or small area shots are nice, but most folks appreciate FTS more than any other kind of picture unless you're having a discussion about a certain plant or alga. 

3. An open mind and willingness to learn. Take all advice here with a grain of salt as there's more than one way to skin a cat and even two identically set up tanks will turn out differently. Folks here genuinely want to help and generally give the best advice they can given their unique experiences. Their situations may not be like yours and may not apply, but it's info to store for the future and you may be able to glean a little something that can help now.

4. Humility.

5. Thoughtful questions. Take time to consider your questions before asking something to the equivalent of "Where's the nearest McDonald's?". When you do ask questions, make sure to give as much background info as possible; ESPECIALLY what's changed, if anything. 

That should be enough to make you dangerous.

Regards,
Phil

Bump:


jims123 said:


> Phil
> Are there any visible tell-tale signs in a plants growth that will tell you if that particular plant is getting too much or is getting too little LED light, or fertilizer?
> 
> How long do these symptoms normally take to show up.. can you tell in a day, or does it take more like a week to detect a problem? So far I haven't seen much change in a 5 day period but am assuming that's Ok. Is it ?
> ...



Jim, there are many signs that will show if a plant isn't getting enough nutrition. I'll direct you to the Fertilizers and Water Parameters sub forum for info on that. A lot of this info has already been covered so I'd recommend reading up before asking questions which have probably been asked a thousand times. 

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/11-fertilizers-water-parameters/

In a low tech tank it can take a while for issues to show up since the plants' metabolism is generally slower.




rosyrobyn said:


> Thanks for all your help Phil!


You're welcome!



jims123 said:


> Phil,
> I've had this filter almost 3 months and like it a lot..
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MRWPB99/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> ...


What you're doing already is cleaning the filter. When we say that here we're not talking about literally taking soap and water and CLEANING the filter. It's making sure that there's not a lot of build up in there and that flow is good. Organic debris is a major contributor to algae, so keeping your filter clean and being good about doing regular water changes will go a long way toward avoiding problems.

Regards,
Phil


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Phil Edwards said:


> In my experience, when it comes to overcoming algae, more macros are better than less.


Phil I've thought this for a long time and it is counter intuitive to many. If I might add, think growing plants, not defeating algae. Healthy growing plants are a strong defense against algae.



Phil Edwards said:


> TL/DR: Be patient and make small changes while paying attention to your plants and animals while keeping the tank as clean as possible. 99% of algae issues are due to a tank and/or filter being dirty if CO2 has changed or crapped out. Then it only goes down to 75%.


Once again, I second the motion. In the scheme of things, ferts are less important than many other factors. The ferts are fine tuning the engine, but it's got to be running first.


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## timmytoes (Mar 13, 2018)

Any experience with the Up Aqua CO2 Regulator?

How important IYO is having dual stage vs single stage?


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Well @Phil Edwards - it would seem you have definitely found something very constructive and helpful to occupy your free time!
And for some of us veterans, this thread is worth the read as I am always trying to learn


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## GustavoMoura (Dec 14, 2017)

Hello Phil,
I am setting up a new tank and I was thinking of the water conditioner. I was thinking of going with Seachem Prime 500ml ($9) but I found Dr. Foster and Smith Chlorine Neutralizer 64oz ($15). Are there any big differences in a water conditioner? Which one would you recommend?
Regards,
Gustavo


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

timmytoes said:


> Any experience with the Up Aqua CO2 Regulator?
> 
> How important IYO is having dual stage vs single stage?


Hello timmytoes and welcome to TPT! Unfortunately I don't have any experience with their brand of regulator. Taking a look at it, it seems to have all of the necessary bits; dual stage (essential), gross pressure regulator, needle valve, and solenoid. If that's the one you're looking at getting, I don't see anything that would keep me from buying it if I were you.

Dual stages are essential in preventing what's called End of Tank Dump; basically when the pressure in the canister gets too low for the regulator to regulate it so it all comes out at once and often wipe out all the fish in a tank. It used to be a problem years ago when regulators weren't as good or people used single stage units. These days most commercial units are dual stage.

Regards,
Phil


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Greggz said:


> The ferts are fine tuning the engine, but it's got to be running first.


Many times the engine is running but no one is behind the wheel?>


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

Immortal1 said:


> Well @Phil Edwards - it would seem you have definitely found something very constructive and helpful to occupy your free time!
> And for some of us veterans, this thread is worth the read as I am always trying to learn


If you're not going to ask a question, get out of my thread!  Thank you for the kind words, my friend.



GustavoMoura said:


> Hello Phil,
> I am setting up a new tank and I was thinking of the water conditioner. I was thinking of going with Seachem Prime 500ml ($9) but I found Dr. Foster and Smith Chlorine Neutralizer 64oz ($15). Are there any big differences in a water conditioner? Which one would you recommend?
> Regards,
> Gustavo


You can't go wrong with Prime. Something most folks don't know about the aquatics industry is that there's a lot of what's called "contract packaging" going on behind the scenes. That's where a company like DFS sends out a request for bids to have a company make a product for them under their label. There are only so many companies that make dechlor and there are only so many ways to make it that in the end it's often a wash. In this case though, I would go with the Prime as it's tried and true tested by just about everyone out there. 

Something else to look at is how much is needed to treat a gallon. The price per gallon of a higher quality and more expensive product may in fact be lower than a less expensive, but lower quality product. Always keep that in mind.

Cheers,
Phil

Bump:


Greggz said:


> Once again, I second the motion. In the scheme of things, ferts are less important than many other factors. The ferts are fine tuning the engine, but it's got to be running first.


Or, as I've been saying for I don't know how long: Light is the accelerator for the engine; CO2 and fertilizers are the fuel. The harder you press the gas pedal, the more fuel you need and the higher risk of injury you have when you have an accident.


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## cwschoon (Mar 15, 2018)

Good afternoon,

I have kept only marine aquaria for the last 30 years but have just completed setting up a 30 gallon high -24 x 24 x 12- and it is currently cycling.
The light I purchased is an AI Prime Freshwater and I would really appreciate some help setting the spectrums, intensity and timing.
I am going to remain "low tech" for now and have an Eheim canister and am using SeaChem Black Flourite so accordingly, I am only going to put in plants that should do well with my setup. My driftwood is currently soaking in a garbage pail.
Any advice with the lights AND plant selection is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Craig.


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## cwschoon (Mar 15, 2018)

Good afternoon,

I have kept only marine aquaria for the last 30 years but have just completed setting up a 30 gallon high -24 x 24 x 12- and it is currently cycling.
The light I purchased is an AI Prime Freshwater and I would really appreciate some help setting the spectrums, intensity and timing.
I am going to remain "low tech" for now and have an Eheim canister and am using SeaChem Black Flourite so accordingly, I am only going to put in plants that should do well with my setup. My driftwood is currently soaking in a garbage pail.
Any advice with the lights AND plant selection is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Craig.


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

cwschoon said:


> Good afternoon,
> 
> I have kept only marine aquaria for the last 30 years but have just completed setting up a 30 gallon high -24 x 24 x 12- and it is currently cycling.
> The light I purchased is an AI Prime Freshwater and I would really appreciate some help setting the spectrums, intensity and timing.
> ...


Hey there Craig,

I haven't used a Hydra in years, but if I'm right, they have lighting presets, is that correct for your system? Which model Eheim did you get? 

Do you have any friends who keep aquariums?


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## ipkiss (Aug 9, 2011)

timmytoes said:


> Any experience with the Up Aqua CO2 Regulator?
> 
> How important IYO is having dual stage vs single stage?





Phil Edwards said:


> Hello timmytoes and welcome to TPT! Unfortunately I don't have any experience with their brand of regulator. Taking a look at it, it seems to have all of the necessary bits; dual stage (essential), gross pressure regulator, needle valve, and solenoid. If that's the one you're looking at getting, I don't see anything that would keep me from buying it if I were you.


Whoa.. fact check. Far be it for me to question the great Phil :grin2: , but I'll risk it for this.. which Up Aqua regulator are we talking about? They started making dual stages?


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

I just did a quick google search and found a dual stage on Amazon.

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.


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## ipkiss (Aug 9, 2011)

Phil Edwards said:


> I just did a quick google search and found a dual stage on Amazon.
> 
> Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.


This thing? https://www.amazon.com/U-P-Aqua-Co2-Regulator-Aquarium/dp/B00AJKPFLU Looks kinda single to me. Pretty hard to see the backside, almost like they're purposefully hiding it.

Not trying to "gotcha". Just trying to help and don't want your good name sullied with wrong info


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

ipkiss said:


> This thing? https://www.amazon.com/U-P-Aqua-Co2-Regulator-Aquarium/dp/B00AJKPFLU Looks kinda single to me. Pretty hard to see the backside, almost like they're purposefully hiding it.
> 
> Not trying to "gotcha". Just trying to help and don't want your good name sullied with wrong info


Part of my job is working with Amazon on the back end. Knowing their rules for images and product description, if the pics are showing dual stage it's dual stage. To me, the images pretty clearly show it being dual stage.


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## rosssurf (Mar 14, 2018)

After being dormant and dried up for 20 years, I have decided to restart my 20g long low tech planted tank. Before I just had a natural gravel substrate. I am really hoping to have healthier plant growth. I had been using a t8 that was designed for the 20gl as well as one of the same from a 10g. Would this be enough light for things like S. Repens and "Japan". Perhaps the old t8 are not sufficient even with new bulbs? If they are is there a bulb you reccommend? I know 6500k is good but having the correct amount of Blue and red are most beneficial. I eventually like to get a Fluval 3.0 planted or a Finnex 24/7 LED, but at this time I would rather not acquire the expense if my old t8 fixtures with new bulb would work well.

Also, I am thinking of using ADA Amazonia light substrate. Would this be a good choice? Are there any supplements that I should really have? or based on my set up are they snake oil?

I plan to have a school of Neon's (not sure if I want Green, regular or Cardinals yet) a few Harlequin Rasaboras and a pair of German Blue Rams. I am in Baltimore, Md and my water is close to neutral.

Thank you in advance


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## Vallisneria (Mar 15, 2018)

Hi Phil. Great thread, especially for people like myself who are trying to get up to speed after being away from the hobby for quite a while. I'm trying to determine the best place for the new tank in my apartment. The room I'd like it in gets light in the morning and early afternoon. I can position the tank against the front wall so it doesn't get any direct sunlight, but the ambient light will be quite high at times. I'm planning on a fully planted tank. Will the ambient light be an issue for algae? Thanks.


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

rosssurf said:


> After being dormant and dried up for 20 years, I have decided to restart my 20g long low tech planted tank. Before I just had a natural gravel substrate. I am really hoping to have healthier plant growth. I had been using a t8 that was designed for the 20gl as well as one of the same from a 10g. Would this be enough light for things like S. Repens and "Japan". Perhaps the old t8 are not sufficient even with new bulbs? If they are is there a bulb you reccommend? I know 6500k is good but having the correct amount of Blue and red are most beneficial. I eventually like to get a Fluval 3.0 planted or a Finnex 24/7 LED, but at this time I would rather not acquire the expense if my old t8 fixtures with new bulb would work well.


Could you please share a picture of the fixtures in question? This is the old school curmudgeon in me talking, but a new T8 bulb or bulbs should be able to grow most "new" plants just fine. 



rosssurf said:


> Also, I am thinking of using ADA Amazonia light substrate. Would this be a good choice? Are there any supplements that I should really have? or based on my set up are they snake oil?


I haven't used the "light" substrate, but have used the regular Amazonia and would say it's a great choice for a low tech tank. If you have the money, Power Sand Special has worked really well for me in the past coupled with Amazonia. The whole point of this is to give you a nice rich substrate to support the plants without having to deal with all that fancypants high tech stuff.  I would also say that Seachem Equilibrium would be an important additive to supply essential Calcium, Magnesium, Potassium, and Iron. 



rosssurf said:


> I plan to have a school of Neon's (not sure if I want Green, regular or Cardinals yet) a few Harlequin Rasaboras and a pair of German Blue Rams. I am in Baltimore, Md and my water is close to neutral.


That should work out well with your water.

Regards,
Phil

Bump:


Vallisneria said:


> Hi Phil. Great thread, especially for people like myself who are trying to get up to speed after being away from the hobby for quite a while. I'm trying to determine the best place for the new tank in my apartment. The room I'd like it in gets light in the morning and early afternoon. I can position the tank against the front wall so it doesn't get any direct sunlight, but the ambient light will be quite high at times. I'm planning on a fully planted tank. Will the ambient light be an issue for algae? Thanks.


My tank gets almost direct sunlight in the morning during winter and early spring and I don't have much issue with algae except in portions of the sump. Since I run CO2 I did set the timer to be on during that period to be able to take advantage of the natural light. All that being said, yes, high ambient light can help stimulate algae growth in some systems, but it's usually limited to the glass. 

Regards,
Phil


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## kjbord (Feb 11, 2018)

Hi, I am looking for 1) a place online that I can purchase my plants from at a reasonable price. 2) a planted substrate that will not harm bottom feeders, such as Kuhli loach, DoJo loach (weather loach), and Corydoras. 3) PH neutral and doesn't leach ammonia. I am trying to start my first planted tank I have 2 tanks now that have plants but nothing like a planted tank. Both tanks have jungle val, anubias, java fern, Hygrophila, water sprite. One tank has an additional Crypt and Ludwigia Ovalis, the other has an additional Sword (my wife likes it, I can't stand it) The tank sizes are 60 gallon and right now a 29 but fixing to upgrade that one to a 40 breeder.

I was/am thinking of splitting the substrate between some small gravel on one side and sand on the other. so the corydoras can do their thing in the sand. Right now they are on gravel and I can see they are trying their hardest to burrow in it but of course they can't. I don't mind using liquid ferts and root tabs forever.. I'd prefer not to but I have no problem doing it. 

Thanks for any info..


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## kaldurak (May 2, 2010)

Hello! And thanks for taking time to be a great knowledge source!

If nitrates are high, like stupid high 80+, can that inhibit uptake of other macro or micro ferts? 

My fish and shrimp are happy and healthy looking, but my nitrate always tests ridiculously high according to my API test.

I essentially EI dry dose, but don't dose NO3 anymore. Just P and K. I don't add csm+b anymore because it melts my rotala walichii - any micro my tank needs, it seems to pull from the osmocote+ in the sub.

The tank is a spec v


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## luky (Jul 24, 2014)

@Phil Edwards
thanks for taking the time ...

i noticed my kh keeps coming up 0 and have seen many people say its not a big deal but i have also seen some that take steps to raise it a bit, such as adding Baking Soda after a water change in addition to whatever else their regimen calls for.
i notice that the suggestion to add GH Booster is also made and thats where im a little confused.

Q:
if my GH seems to be reading around 50 or 60 (using API 5-in-1 dip tests), do i need to still add GH booster if i plan on trying to raise KH, or can i take only the steps necessary to raise KH only?

thanks in advance


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

kjbord said:


> Hi, I am looking for 1) a place online that I can purchase my plants from at a reasonable price. 2) a planted substrate that will not harm bottom feeders, such as Kuhli loach, DoJo loach (weather loach), and Corydoras. 3) PH neutral and doesn't leach ammonia.


Let's start from here:
1. I'm not that familiar with the current online plant vendors as I tend to get what I need from other hobbyists. The For Sale and Want To Buy sections here are great places to find plants at reasonable prices. You might look through folks' journals to see where they got their plants. 

2. Hmmm, a plant specific substrate that won't harm bottom fish, but is pH neutral and won't leach ammonia. That's a good question. Eco Complete comes to mind. If you're wanting one of the processed aqua soils, I'd recommend Fluval Stratum. Given the physical nature of soils they're not going to be pH neutral and will affect water chemistry to a degree, there's no way around it. After using a bunch of them, I was impressed with the weight and color of Stratum compared to the other domestic brands I'd used.



kjbord said:


> I am trying to start my first planted tank I have 2 tanks now that have plants but nothing like a planted tank. Both tanks have jungle val, anubias, java fern, Hygrophila, water sprite. One tank has an additional Crypt and Ludwigia Ovalis, the other has an additional Sword (my wife likes it, I can't stand it) The tank sizes are 60 gallon and right now a 29 but fixing to upgrade that one to a 40 breeder.


Are you looking to renovate all of these tanks? 



kjbord said:


> I was/am thinking of splitting the substrate between some small gravel on one side and sand on the other. so the corydoras can do their thing in the sand. Right now they are on gravel and I can see they are trying their hardest to burrow in it but of course they can't. I don't mind using liquid ferts and root tabs forever.. I'd prefer not to but I have no problem doing it.


Dividing substrates is absolutely doable and will work well if done properly. Make sure to use plastic dividers for the whole length, otherwise the two will start mixing and you'll just have a mess on your hands.

Regards,
Phil


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

kaldurak said:


> Hello! And thanks for taking time to be a great knowledge source!
> 
> If nitrates are high, like stupid high 80+, can that inhibit uptake of other macro or micro ferts?
> 
> My fish and shrimp are happy and healthy looking, but my nitrate always tests ridiculously high according to my API test.


If it helps, API Nitrate tests are notoriously inaccurate. Chances are if your NO3 was 80, your fish and shrimp wouldn't be healthy. That being said, you are using osmocote in a small tank on top of EI dosing so you may be getting higher than needed amounts. Try doing a water change and only dosing your Calcium and Magnesium, or whatever GH booster you have plus the K. 

I essentially EI dry dose, but don't dose NO3 anymore. Just P and K. I don't add csm+b anymore because it melts my rotala walichii - any micro my tank needs, it seems to pull from the osmocote+ in the sub.

The tank is a spec v

View attachment 837961
View attachment 837969
View attachment 837977
View attachment 837985
[/QUOTE]



luky said:


> @Phil Edwards
> thanks for taking the time ...
> 
> i noticed my kh keeps coming up 0 and have seen many people say its not a big deal but i have also seen some that take steps to raise it a bit, such as adding Baking Soda after a water change in addition to whatever else their regimen calls for.
> ...


That's a good question. Do you plants seem to be doing well with the GH as it is? Are the new leaves crinkled at all or are the leaves pale, but the veins in the leaves still dark? If you answered yes to either of these, you'll need to add either Calcium or Magnesium. If no, then don't worry about your GH.  

As far as KH is concerned, if you're adding CO2 then yes, you want to increase KH. I typically like to keep mine around 3 or 4 to give some extra buffering without requiring an excessive amount of gas to reach 30ppm. Do you know what your KH is out of the tap?


Regards,
Phil


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## luky (Jul 24, 2014)

thank you very very much @Phil Edwards, 
[cringing] i actually answered yes to all of the above (not throughout the entire tank - but yes) - i'll worry more about the GH maybe (which is pretty low from what ive just gathered after some reading) and a little less about the KH (no, no CO2 btw).

also, i was only reporting the results of the GH (going by the colors on the dip stick) - i didnt mean to sound that this was a set range i was targeting purposely. i have no objection to raising it, albeit carefully - if i had to.

About the KH though, i thought there would be a benefit of the KH being in the 2 - 3 range *even without CO2 injection since theres still CO2 available in the air plus whatever carbon i might add in the form of excel or other product. *my reasoning / train of thought could be way off here!

and i cant say what the KH is cause i used my last test strip so ill be picking some up this weekend.


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## Hayleyxx (Mar 16, 2018)

I am so happy I stumbled upon this forum!! Apologies if this is super long, but I would rather put more info that not enough  

In the past few months, I have been grabbing things here and there to start my first planted tank. I selected a 20 gallon long, but I’ve had freshwater tanks before a few times (largest 50 gallons). Last week, I got the last of my items and grabbed some plants at my local aquarium store (non-major retailer). The substrate is fluval stratum on the bottom and black fine sand on top. I picked up some java fern which has been glued to driftwood and placed sporadically around the tank along with some onion plants and another that I am unsure of the name (round greenish/reddish/purplish leaves, seems relatively hardy). I was advised to set up and add my starter bacteria (api brand) and bring back a sample the next day to get starter fish. Came back the next day with a good sample and came home with two rummy nose tetras. Acclimated them temp wise, no quarantine. Well....fast forward a few days and these guys have a bad case of ich. Not terribly surprised as the tank was brand new and these were the last two rummys left in the tank at the store and were separated from a school for a while probably. So, I call the store and the owner advises me to up the temp to 83-85 and add some salt, do a 20% change the following day and then begin a plant safe ich treatment. So I did the salt (4 tbsps before water change, plants seem to be totally fine) and raised the temp to 83 as I don’t want to stress the guys out too much if I can. The fish are obviously much less of a concern as opposed to the overall curing of the tank itself. One of the fish is exhibiting much further development than the other; but they both don’t seem uncomfortable other than minimally torn fins. Increased appetite as expected from the heat and meds. I am treating with microbe lift herbana and today was the 2nd dose out of the 10. I have also tested the water multiple times. Today’s reading was 7.2 ph, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 5 nitrate. 

Now that that’s out of the way, I have a few questions. Will the overall cycle of this be shortened with the treatments I’ve been using? I hear about 2-3 weeks which I am comfortable with. How will I know for sure that it is cleared? Is there anything additional I should be looking out for? My plan is to complete the school of rummys, add some Corys, a few gourami, and maybe a different school of tetras as well. I am also debating freshwater shrimp but am not sure if the gouramis are compatible. 

Any info given is appreciated. I have always loved keeping fish but building a planted tank was a welcomed challenge that I really enjoyed and cannot wait to learn more about.


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## cwschoon (Mar 15, 2018)

Eheim pro4 250 and they have innovated it in a major way. The Prime does have pre-sets but my friends down at an LFS programmed in a setting for me. I was in the business for 10 years or so but as I said, only kept marine aquaria and am really looking forward to this.


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## GustavoMoura (Dec 14, 2017)

Hello Phil,
Thanks so much for giving me the information on the Seachem Prime.
As we talked before, I should use a 2-3mm substrate above the dirt. You recommended that I get black diamond blasting sand. Are there any other major options within this category?
Also, what are your thoughts on my rocks? What color substrate do you think would go best with them and with some manzanita driftwood?
Regards,
Gustavo


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## Hayleyxx (Mar 16, 2018)

I have the API freshwater kit and it is by far the most accurate thing that I have found readily available. Accurate results and easy to use.


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

luky said:


> thank you very very much @Phil Edwards,
> [cringing] i actually answered yes to all of the above (not throughout the entire tank - but yes) - i'll worry more about the GH maybe (which is pretty low from what ive just gathered after some reading) and a little less about the KH (no, no CO2 btw).
> 
> also, i was only reporting the results of the GH (going by the colors on the dip stick) - i didnt mean to sound that this was a set range i was targeting purposely. i have no objection to raising it, albeit carefully - if i had to.
> ...


Luky,

No need to cringe, we all go through this and that's why we ask our compatriots questions, right? We're all here to learn. Rather than worrying about GH for the sake of hardness, I would recommend getting some Calcium and Magnesium supplements (Seachem Equilibrium is great for this) as are numerous individual products and dose for Ca and Mg. If you decide to get separate Ca and Mg supplements, go for the reef ones, they tend to be more concentrated. I would recommend Equilibrium to start with first though. Dosing specifically for Ca and Mg will help your plants while also adjusting the GH. One of my big rules of thumb is "Work with the water you've got.". You're actually lucky to have fairly soft tap water, it gives you more options for plants and fish. My general Ca and Mg concentration targets are 20 and 5, respectively when dosing individually. If you get Equilibrium, just follow the directions and dose once a week to start.

As far as KH, if you're not adding CO2, don't worry about it. Don't add anything for it. Work with the water you've got.  Adding stuff when you don't need to only increases the opportunity for an accident. If you really want to add something for it, a little Baking Soda is all you need.

Regards,
Phil


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

Hayleyxx said:


> I am so happy I stumbled upon this forum!! Apologies if this is super long, but I would rather put more info that not enough


First off, welcome to The Planted Tank. Don't forget to start a tank journal to document the progress of your tank and have a place to chat specifically about it.

...another that I am unsure of the name (round greenish/reddish/purplish leaves, seems relatively hardy). [/quote]

It looks like that plant is Ludwigia repens. 




Hayleyxx said:


> I am treating with microbe lift herbana and today was the 2nd dose out of the 10. I have also tested the water multiple times. Today’s reading was 7.2 ph, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 5 nitrate.


Microbe Lift is a good brand when it comes to water quality/cleanliness products as their main business is in municipal water treatment. They know their stuff. I'm not so sure about disease treatment, but hey, if it seems to be working, go with it as it's also likely helping cycle your tank. 



Hayleyxx said:


> Now that that’s out of the way, I have a few questions. Will the overall cycle of this be shortened with the treatments I’ve been using? I hear about 2-3 weeks which I am comfortable with. How will I know for sure that it is cleared? Is there anything additional I should be looking out for?


I've got good and bad news for you. Your tank may already be cycled given the numbers you gave, but you need to take your rummies out and let the tank go fishless for a month to be 100% sure it's ich free. That's the only guaranteed way to treat that parasite and is the #1 reason I recommend quarantine/hospital tanks. If that's not something that's practical for you, then your next best option is to keep just those two fish in there for the next month and keep a close eye on them to make sure the parasite doesn't encyst again (make spots on the fish). Once they're clean for a month then you can start adding your fish. By then your tank will be cycled for sure. 



Hayleyxx said:


> My plan is to complete the school of rummys, add some Corys, a few gourami, and maybe a different school of tetras as well. I am also debating freshwater shrimp but am not sure if the gouramis are compatible.


In my opinion, group of Rummynose is going to be so active that adding another tetra won't be necessary or even a good thing in a 20 long. Cories and Gouramis, absolutely. Cherry barbs would be a good choice as they tend to stay in the lower part of the tank where the Rummynose will dominate the middle. I would add any Gouramis last after you've been able to add more plants. They're going to need a place to get away from the active Rummynose. Lilies would be a good option. 



Hayleyxx said:


> Any info given is appreciated. I have always loved keeping fish but building a planted tank was a welcomed challenge that I really enjoyed and cannot wait to learn more about.


There's a LOT to learn. I've been doing this for 20 years now and am trained in aquatic plant ecology and substrate biogeochemistry and I'm still learning things. And still making rookie mistakes. 

I tell this to every beginner; especially those who come to forums like this as people like to push tech and fertilizers on to people. This is YOUR aquarium. Keep it the way YOU want because YOU are the one who has to look at it every day and take care of it. Most beginners see those lush tanks with high light, CO2, and fertilizers and want them right away. I would STRONGLY caution you against that. You've got the makings of a nice low tech tank there. Take the time to learn how it behaves, how the plants respond, how the fish do, and all that. Learning how to observe your aquarium and know that it needs just by looking at it is a skill most people don't cultivate, which leads to problems they can't solve or prevent later on. 

I'll also tell you this. You WILL kill plants. Maybe a lot of them. It's part of learning how to keep them. You WILL get algae. Possibly enough to cover the whole tank. Don't worry, we have all gone through this. It's part of keeping planted tanks. Solving the issues is part of the learning process. There WILL come a point where you'll want to throw the tank out the window and give up. That's when you lean on us to help you get through it. There are a lot of good people here who genuinely want to help. Use us.

One last thing: What are your GH and KH, and I highly suggest getting a quality CO2 system for small tanks. Ignore the Hagen brand. ISTA makes a solid system. Even though you're going low tech, CO2 will be of serious benefit for your plants even with low light and no fertilizer supplementation. 

Kind regards,
Phil

Bump:


GustavoMoura said:


> Hello Phil,
> Thanks so much for giving me the information on the Seachem Prime.
> As we talked before, I should use a 2-3mm substrate above the dirt. You recommended that I get black diamond blasting sand. Are there any other major options within this category?
> Also, what are your thoughts on my rocks? What color substrate do you think would go best with them and with some manzanita driftwood?
> ...


Gustavo,

I think you've got a good assortment of rocks there. They'll go well with the Manzanita. Other options for coarse sand/small gravel are well drilling companies. They tend to use coarse sand/small gravel to pack the annulus (part of the well that the water goes into) and they may be willing to sell bags of the stuff to you. I used to get it under the brand Colorado River Sand. It's 2mm silica/quartz sand. Another option would be a rock yard. They may have 2-4mm size sand/gravel available. If you have a stream nearby you can take a metal kitchen collander and sift out sand. It'll take a lot of work for a 120, but it's an option... If it really comes down to it, regular, unglazed aquarium gravel will work too, just make sure you get enough to have at least 2 inches above your soil, regardless of the material you end up getting.

Regards,
Phil


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

Hey folks,

I've got family coming in today and will be temporarily discharged from the hospital tomorrow so I'll have limited time to answer questions this coming week. I'll do my best to keep up, don't think you're being ignored. 

Cheers,
Phil


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Congrats on the momentary discharge!!! Hopefully you will be able to enjoy some sun as opposed to sleet/rain/snow (oh wait, thats just here).
And no worries, we will all still be here when you get back :grin2:


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

Immortal1 said:


> Congrats on the momentary discharge!!! Hopefully you will be able to enjoy some sun as opposed to sleet/rain/snow (oh wait, thats just here).
> And no worries, we will all still be here when you get back :grin2:


The weather here should be pretty good for the time of year. I know you'll be here. I'm just hoping there's not a list of questions a mile long.


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## oval291 (Dec 19, 2016)

Quick question...Plan to start using CO2 this year and wanted to know a good regulator/regulators to use.


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## GustavoMoura (Dec 14, 2017)

Do you think that the black sand would go well with the rocks and wood?


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## GustavoMoura (Dec 14, 2017)

I found this one near me. What do you think? Too big?


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## Hayleyxx (Mar 16, 2018)

.

"...another that I am unsure of the name (round greenish/reddish/purplish leaves, seems relatively hardy). [/quote]

It looks like that plant is Ludwigia repens." 


Yup! thats the one!


"Microbe Lift is a good brand when it comes to water quality/cleanliness products as their main business is in municipal water treatment. They know their stuff. I'm not so sure about disease treatment, but hey, if it seems to be working, go with it as it's also likely helping cycle your tank. "

So far so good! Woke up this morning to the larger of the two rummys looking much much better and way more active. good to see. 



"I've got good and bad news for you. Your tank may already be cycled given the numbers you gave, but you need to take your rummies out and let the tank go fishless for a month to be 100% sure it's ich free. That's the only guaranteed way to treat that parasite and is the #1 reason I recommend quarantine/hospital tanks. If that's not something that's practical for you, then your next best option is to keep just those two fish in there for the next month and keep a close eye on them to make sure the parasite doesn't encyst again (make spots on the fish). Once they're clean for a month then you can start adding your fish. By then your tank will be cycled for sure. "

Unfortunately I live in a tiny apartment so a quarantine tank is just not possible, although it was what I wanted to do in the first place. I completely agree that this would have been the best approach but I didnt have the means or space to do so, but I am okay with running a month with nothing else. would rather be safe than sorry. 



"In my opinion, group of Rummynose is going to be so active that adding another tetra won't be necessary or even a good thing in a 20 long. Cories and Gouramis, absolutely. Cherry barbs would be a good choice as they tend to stay in the lower part of the tank where the Rummynose will dominate the middle. I would add any Gouramis last after you've been able to add more plants. They're going to need a place to get away from the active Rummynose. Lilies would be a good option. "

That sounds wonderful. Gouramis were going to be my last addition so I am glad that was your suggestion. Lillies are beautiful and my local shop has them available too! Once I add some moss I will be more comfortable adding the shrimp and Gourami. Cories are an interesting fish and are fun to watch. Looking forward to it! 



"There's a LOT to learn. I've been doing this for 20 years now and am trained in aquatic plant ecology and substrate biogeochemistry and I'm still learning things. And still making rookie mistakes. 

I tell this to every beginner; especially those who come to forums like this as people like to push tech and fertilizers on to people. This is YOUR aquarium. Keep it the way YOU want because YOU are the one who has to look at it every day and take care of it. Most beginners see those lush tanks with high light, CO2, and fertilizers and want them right away. I would STRONGLY caution you against that. You've got the makings of a nice low tech tank there. Take the time to learn how it behaves, how the plants respond, how the fish do, and all that. Learning how to observe your aquarium and know that it needs just by looking at it is a skill most people don't cultivate, which leads to problems they can't solve or prevent later on. 

I'll also tell you this. You WILL kill plants. Maybe a lot of them. It's part of learning how to keep them. You WILL get algae. Possibly enough to cover the whole tank. Don't worry, we have all gone through this. It's part of keeping planted tanks. Solving the issues is part of the learning process. There WILL come a point where you'll want to throw the tank out the window and give up. That's when you lean on us to help you get through it. There are a lot of good people here who genuinely want to help. Use us.

One last thing: What are your GH and KH, and I highly suggest getting a quality CO2 system for small tanks. Ignore the Hagen brand. ISTA makes a solid system. Even though you're going low tech, CO2 will be of serious benefit for your plants even with low light and no fertilizer supplementation. "



Thank you so much for such wonderful information! I was considering a small co2 system but am pretty unfamiliar with how it works, the effects, etc. I am using seachem flourish and flourish excel to aid in the plants growth and such. I am likely going to add some basic moss as well to the substrate and wood...but all comes in time. Heres an amature question..what is GH and KH? is there a test I can get to check these? Im sure they have to do with the plant health. Overall they are growing and seem relatively "happy", but when I bought them there was a bit of browning of the leaves of the java fern that has yet to go away. 

Sorry if this seems jumbled..I am new to planted tanks and forums as well! I really appreciate you taking your time out to help us all! It seems as if there is an endless amount of information available out there and its so fun to learn! Most of all, I really appreciate the overall honesty on how things are bound to go wrong and be difficult!!!


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Phil Edwards said:


> I'm just hoping there's not a list of questions a mile long.


Phil who are you kidding? You know a list a mile long is precisely what you are hoping for!!!>

And I must say, I really like what you are doing. I've been following and it's a great thread.


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## Hayleyxx (Mar 16, 2018)

jims123 said:


> Hi Phil,
> Thanks for volunteering to help.. I set up this planted tank last Saturday (see photo attached) , it's my 1st and here are my questions..
> 
> 1.) based on the bubbles you see in the top center from the dispersion tube above it, is there too much water flow? is a lot of flow harmful to either plants or fish?
> ...


nice setup!


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## Orichid123 (Feb 25, 2018)

any help with dealing with black beard alage any help would be great thanks michael


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Orichid123 said:


> any help with dealing with black beard alage any help would be great thanks michael


Oh Phil I am looking forward to this one!


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## dogwood.fleet (Feb 24, 2018)

Already dechlorinated, but the question's been bugging me. If I don't really care about cycling for awhile, does it hurt anything in a newly set up planted tank to just leave tap water chloramines in? It'd probably prevent algae from growing, but would it hurt the plants?


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## luky (Jul 24, 2014)

@Phil Edwards thanks again for taking the time! im grateful you picked up on that. i wont worry about the kh. just ordered up the equilibrium. will also invest some time and read up on buying the ca and mg separately.


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## 44waterman (Oct 5, 2017)

Phil Edwards, this is my first post but I read all the time in this forum.
What a great guy you are for sharing your knowledge that we all can use. Good luck to you!


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## KrypleBerry (May 23, 2017)

BettaLover1233 said:


> Hmmm. Thanks for the help but,
> 
> I have camellanus worms in my tank and I think that it would be great if I could put in dewormer DIRECTLY into the tank.
> 
> ...


 hikari prazi pro


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## Subjected (Feb 6, 2018)

@Phil Edwards, I am by no means new to the hobby but was wondering if you might by chance have any data on Aquascaping rocks. As in which ones raise kH, pH, gH and by how much. I have about 25lbs of Elephant Skin Stone in a 12 Long and would be curious as to the outcome. 

Steve


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## reyhabeas (Feb 7, 2018)

Quick question. When cycling, I know it starts with the ammonia, then nitrites, then nitrates. Is a really high reading of Ammonia required, or is a reading of about .50ppm good enough to produce the nitrites and then the nitrates? (small tank)


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## Pluto77189 (Mar 20, 2018)

I'll be setting up my first fishtank in about 20 years. Used to have larger oddballs and chiclids, but I'll be going with a planted community tank - with invertebrates for good measure. 

It's looking like I'll go with a 60 gallon (48"x12.75"x25" high) because of the limited space - I can't have an 18" deep tank, sadly. 

Initially, I'm not planning on going with CO2, but it seems simple, so I'll think about it down the road. 

I DO want nice bright lighting in some areas, so would a good LED strip be harmful if I didn't use CO2? 

Substrate - I like the look of black sand. Is it beneficial to use a plant media and cover it with sand (any benefit to aquarium sand vs blasting sand? finer granules?)

I'm building the stand myself - It'll function as a sort of governor in my impulsiveness. I can't buy anything else until I've got the stand ready, so I have to limit my spending!

I want to have a good school of cardinal tetras, corys, shrimp(and maybe those little crabs), kuhli loaches and some top water species (it's a taller tank). But I do want to create an isolated and slower-flowing spot for my betta. I know he might devour the shrimp, but it's a 60 gallon - maybe they'll have room to escape. 

I had an ehiem for my 90 gallon. It worked well for a long time (probably still works), but was a pain to clean. Any real advantages/disadvantages between the major brands? Fluval, marineland, ehiem, etc?

i'll be posting pics in a thread as I progress. 

Thanks!

(Also, I'm not too far from Rock Hill, SC [Asheville, Nc area]- where are the best fish stores in your area? )


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## MadDiscus (Aug 7, 2011)

Hi Phil

Thank you for your time to answer my question.

Im plannimg to set up 50gallon 36x16x18H (this is my guess, for sure 36inch long). Im going low light set up with finnex LED, HoB filter, and main plants Blyxa J, Downoi. I need your suggestion for soil and fertz.

Thank you, 

Tony


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## GaryH (Jan 8, 2018)

Not my 1st time keeping fish, last tank was a 125 with discus, sold it with the house. I just started my 1st try for a 20gal tank with co2 injection and was wondering, would injecting oxygen during lights out have any effect on the growth of the plants since they take in oxygen when deprived of light? Just one of those late night random thoughts.


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## teskken (Sep 28, 2016)

Hi Phil!

How much will I compromise the structural integrity of my glass tank if I make a sloping landscape using substrate? I have a Fluval Chi 5gallon type, and I wanted to do a sloping scape with more substrate towards the back but I was worried it might affect the silicone because of uneven weight/pressure distribution. I would probably be using 4lbs or less of substrate to scape.


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## sveta (Mar 22, 2018)

Hey there, I have a 9 gallon tank I would like to dry start with some HC and other plants. I have a micmol planted light and am super confused about CO2. I was all ready to go and buy my solenoid regulator and all the fixings, but the manager at the store basically told me that it would be an overkill on a 9G and that I should just use liquid CO2. I've been trying to find out if that is sufficient for a small tank, but all searches come up with either large tank CO2 set ups, or DIY systems. Please steer me one way or the other.


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

oval291 said:


> Quick question...Plan to start using CO2 this year and wanted to know a good regulator/regulators to use.


Brand is up to you depending on how much you want to spend. The essential things a good regulator should have these days are:

1. Dual stage- MANDATORY
2. Solenoid
3. Good needle valve
4. Bubble counter- nice, but not necessary if you have a separate one already. If you don't, then your regulator should have one. If you're looking at a larger tank; 75g or above, folks have started using a flow meter to measure and control CO2. I've used those on large scale research systems and think hobby application is awesome. 



GustavoMoura said:


> Do you think that the black sand would go well with the rocks and wood?


That's completely up to you and your aesthetic tastes.


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## oval291 (Dec 19, 2016)

Phil Edwards said:


> Brand is up to you depending on how much you want to spend. The essential things a good regulator should have these days are:
> 
> 1. Dual stage- MANDATORY
> 2. Solenoid
> ...


Thanks for your reply. Plan to use it on 90 gallon planted tank.


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

GustavoMoura said:


> I found this one near me. What do you think? Too big?


If that coin's a nickel or dime then that's perfect.



Hayleyxx said:


> I was considering a small co2 system but am pretty unfamiliar with how it works, the effects, etc.


The really short and sweet of it is this: CO2 dissolves into the water and the plants take it up. Some of it makes carbonic acid, the same acid as is in carbonated beverages. Buffers (KH) in the water will bind some of the acid, which is why the pH doesn't drop as much or as quickly in tanks with higher KH. Eventually the CO2 becomes available again as dissolved CO2 and the plants take it up. The full chemical carbon cycle is a lot more complex, but that's really all a beginner needs to know.



Hayleyxx said:


> I am likely going to add some basic moss as well to the substrate and wood...but all comes in time.


*DON'T ADD MOSS TO THE SUBSTRATE. YOU'LL NEVER GET IT OUT. I've only got mine on rock and wood and am constantly pulling fragments out of the substrate and hair grass in my tank.* 



Hayleyxx said:


> Heres an amature question..what is GH and KH? is there a test I can get to check these? Im sure they have to do with the plant health.


GH is General Hardness. It's a general measure of the amount of certain ions in your water; typically Calcium ions or compounds. Most folks just use them as a general measure of Calcium and Magnesium. A GH of 4 is typically considered hard enough; especially if you're adding something like Seachem Equilibrium. I personally prefer to use a product like Equilibrium or separate Calcium and Magnesium products to reach specific concentrations of Ca and Mg. For you, I would recommend getting some Equilibrium and dosing as directed to add 2 dGH. 

Calcium is needed by plants to make their outer cell walls. Lack of Ca shows up as leaves that are curled when they shouldn't be. Magnesium is an essential part of Chlorophyll and lack shows up as pale leaves with dark veins. 

KH is Carbonate Hardness and is what helps water resist acidification (drop in pH). Since Carbonates are typically the most common buffer in water Total Alkalinity got named KH. There are lots of other buffers in water, but X-CO3 is/are the most common.



Hayleyxx said:


> Sorry if this seems jumbled..I am new to planted tanks and forums as well! I really appreciate you taking your time out to help us all! It seems as if there is an endless amount of information available out there and its so fun to learn! Most of all, I really appreciate the overall honesty on how things are bound to go wrong and be difficult!!!


You're quite welcome. I enjoy helping folks. Being honest and up front is part of helping folks be successful. I can't tell you how many people I've known who've quit the hobby as soon as their first algae issue came up. It's part not being told it would happen and part people not explaining what's actually going on when the new person follows a certain method and the new person not knowing the method enough to be able to make adjustments. I'd prefer to be blunt and let folks know ahead of time so we don't lose another potential happy hobbyist.



Orichid123 said:


> any help with dealing with black beard alage any help would be great thanks michael


Michael,

There are many different thoughts on what causes and what cures BBA. After years of dealing with the stuff, intentionally and unintentionally, my opinion is the presence of Particulate Organic Carbon (leftover food, feces, etc) and Dissolved Organic Carbon (plant created chemicals, metabolic byproducts, etc) are the cause. I get it when I forget to clean the filter and it often goes away on its own once things get cleaned up for a long enough period. POC is the stuff that gets down into the substrate and trapped by our filters, which is why we siphon the substrate and clean our filters regularly. DOC is organic (carbon-containing) chemicals that are dissolved in the water. Most folks who are into the more scientific/technical side of the hobby generally agree that POC and DOC are the cause of BBA. Removing dead or dying leaves, cleaning well when doing water changes, doing regular water changes and regularly cleaning your filter will usually keep BBA from popping up in uncontrollable amounts. 

There is an exception; wood. New wood puts off organics, usually in the form of tannins, and older wood starts decaying; both of which can cause BBA. I've got some older spiderwood in my tank that has started getting BBA on it in quantities large enough that require chemical intervention. For me that's hydrogen peroxide. I've also used Excel as well in the past, but I don't want to risk killing my shrimp so I go with the peroxide. Directly brushing either of the two onto the alga with a toothbrush, cotton swab, paint brush, or whatever during a water change usually does it. The trick is to let it sit out of the water for about 15 minutes. That can be difficult with a lot of epiphytes like I've got, so I need to carefully spray them without getting water on the areas I'm treating. After a few days the BBA should start turning purple and that's when you know you've killed it. 

As soon as BBA starts showing up, remove the affected part of the plant, do a 50% water change being careful to siphon out any mulm and other debris from around the plants, and rinse our your filter media well in tank water to get all that trapped gunk out. That's usually enough to take care of it if you catch it in time.



dogwood.fleet said:


> Already dechlorinated, but the question's been bugging me. If I don't really care about cycling for awhile, does it hurt anything in a newly set up planted tank to just leave tap water chloramines in? It'd probably prevent algae from growing, but would it hurt the plants?


Chloramines will eventually break down and either degas or be used by the plants. In the past I've skipped dechlorination, but after living in an area that heavily treated the water and dechlorinating regularly I've seen a difference and have dechlorinated right away ever since. Just dump the dose in the water before refilling and there you go. Easy peasy.



44waterman said:


> Phil Edwards, this is my first post but I read all the time in this forum.
> What a great guy you are for sharing your knowledge that we all can use. Good luck to you!


Welcome to The Planted Tank and thank you very much. 



Subjected said:


> @Phil Edwards, I am by no means new to the hobby but was wondering if you might by chance have any data on Aquascaping rocks. As in which ones raise kH, pH, gH and by how much. I have about 25lbs of Elephant Skin Stone in a 12 Long and would be curious as to the outcome.
> Steve


Steve,

I don't currently have any data with me and the various rocks go by so many different names these days that I don't think I could give you specific answers even if I did have the data. What I can say is that carbonate bearing rocks will fizzle audibly when they come into contact with an acid (vinegar). I like to use white distilled as I feel it's more acidic (may be true, may not be, I haven't tested). Take a quarter teaspoon of whatever vinegar you have at home and pour it on one of your rocks. If it fizzles and bubbles then it'll mess with your water chemistry. 

From an Earth Scientist's perspective, it doesn't look to be one of the common carbonate bearing rocks, but I'd test it anyway.



reyhabeas said:


> Quick question. When cycling, I know it starts with the ammonia, then nitrites, then nitrates. Is a really high reading of Ammonia required, or is a reading of about .50ppm good enough to produce the nitrites and then the nitrates? (small tank)


Any amount of Ammonia will start the cycle. Are you adding it or do you have animals in there already and are running tests? Either way is fine. If you're doing a fishless cycle then keeping 0.5ppm until you get measurable Nitrates is good. Otherwise, just let it do its thing and you'll get there in the end.



Pluto77189 said:


> I'll be setting up my first fishtank in about 20 years. Used to have larger oddballs and chiclids, but I'll be going with a planted community tank - with invertebrates for good measure.
> 
> It's looking like I'll go with a 60 gallon (48"x12.75"x25" high) because of the limited space - I can't have an 18" deep tank, sadly.
> 
> ...


Yes, it will. Think of light as the gas pedal of a car and CO2 and fertilizers as the fuel. The harder you push the pedal the greater the demand for CO2 and fertilizers. Even low light tanks benefit from CO2 and high light tanks require it. Light literally pushes the metabolism of the plants faster and faster as the intensity increases. Once you reach a (fairly low) threshold there's not going to be enough CO2 in the water to support the plants' metabolism and the tank will crash. This is one of the most common points of failure with new hobbyists and is usually when they get frustrated and quit. 

Like you said above, pressurized gas is simple. Don't go spending a bunch of money on plants and an expensive light but cheap out on CO2. Either wait until you can get the CO2 or go with an LED that is dimmable enough to keep lower light plants.



Pluto77189 said:


> Substrate - I like the look of black sand. Is it beneficial to use a plant media and cover it with sand (any benefit to aquarium sand vs blasting sand? finer granules?)


Substrates will get mixed so there's not benefit of covering a plant-specific substrate with something else like Black Diamond Blasting Sand or Eco Complete, which is as effective as plain sand for growing plants in my experience. If you like black sand I would highly recommend finding 2-3mm Black Diamond Blasting Sand and using that as your entire substrate at a 2.5-3" depth. It will require regular water column fertilization as it's an inert medium, but many people here have had success using it. If you're not going to get CO2 from the start and get a dimmable LED fixture, I would also recommend using the *entire* Seachem Flourish line of supplements. Plants require everything that (or any other) complete plant supplement line contains and is great for folks who are familiar with dosing, but are new to fully planted tanks. 



Pluto77189 said:


> I'm building the stand myself - It'll function as a sort of governor in my impulsiveness. I can't buy anything else until I've got the stand ready, so I have to limit my spending!


Excellent plan. 



Pluto77189 said:


> I want to have a good school of cardinal tetras, corys, shrimp(and maybe those little crabs), kuhli loaches and some top water species (it's a taller tank). But I do want to create an isolated and slower-flowing spot for my betta. I know he might devour the shrimp, but it's a 60 gallon - maybe they'll have room to escape.


If you've got some thickly planted areas he should do ok in there and probably won't bother the shrimp too badly. 



Pluto77189 said:


> I had an ehiem for my 90 gallon. It worked well for a long time (probably still works), but was a pain to clean. Any real advantages/disadvantages between the major brands? Fluval, marineland, ehiem, etc?


I haven't used a canister in years, and when I did they were all Eheims. I still prefer the Classic model Eheims to any other canister filter I've used or spoken with people about their canisters. *Perhaps someone else could help answer this?*



Pluto77189 said:


> i'll be posting pics in a thread as I progress.


Yes, please start a journal. We all love journals. 



Pluto77189 said:


> Thanks!
> 
> (Also, I'm not too far from Rock Hill, SC [Asheville, Nc area]- where are the best fish stores in your area? )


I used to work at Aquatica off 77. There's often a good stock of animals, but management doesn't treat their employees particularly well so the experienced folks tend to leave quickly. If you know what you want and don't need advice from the staff then it's a good place to go. Upscale Aquatics in Huntersville is supposed to be a good store too and should be worth checking out. Those are the only two in town that I know of that carry freshwater animals and goods.



MadDiscus said:


> Hi Phil
> 
> Thank you for your time to answer my question.
> 
> ...


Hey there Tony, welcome to The Planted Tank. Blyxa and Downoi typically need moderate to high light so be prepared to either get a CO2 system or consider getting other plants. As far as filter, substrate, and fertilizers, knowing your overall goals and general budget would help out a lot. Most folks who get HOB filters tend to have low budgets, but I don't want to assume.



GaryH said:


> Not my 1st time keeping fish, last tank was a 125 with discus, sold it with the house. I just started my 1st try for a 20gal tank with co2 injection and was wondering, would injecting oxygen during lights out have any effect on the growth of the plants since they take in oxygen when deprived of light? Just one of those late night random thoughts.


Adding oxygen when the lights are out is absolutely beneficial to not just your plants and fish, but for the filter bacteria too and is something I would highly recommend. Folks I know who've started doing it have noticed a decrease in certain algae and a general increase in vigor and color of their fish and plants.

Bump:


oval291 said:


> Thanks for your reply. Plan to use it on 90 gallon planted tank.


You're welcome and best of luck!


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

teskken said:


> Hi Phil!
> 
> How much will I compromise the structural integrity of my glass tank if I make a sloping landscape using substrate? I have a Fluval Chi 5gallon type, and I wanted to do a sloping scape with more substrate towards the back but I was worried it might affect the silicone because of uneven weight/pressure distribution. I would probably be using 4lbs or less of substrate to scape.


I've seen some scapes with very deep substrate and steep slopes. I wouldn't worry much about your tank as long as it's level. Being level is much more important for structural integrity.



sveta said:


> Hey there, I have a 9 gallon tank I would like to dry start with some HC and other plants. I have a micmol planted light and am super confused about CO2. I was all ready to go and buy my solenoid regulator and all the fixings, but the manager at the store basically told me that it would be an overkill on a 9G and that I should just use liquid CO2. I've been trying to find out if that is sufficient for a small tank, but all searches come up with either large tank CO2 set ups, or DIY systems. Please steer me one way or the other.


YES A CO2 SYSTEM WILL BE GOOD FOR YOUR TANK!!!!. There, I said it.  Seriously, go with the full on pressurized system, you won't regret it.

As far as what the LFS manager said: CO2, being a gas at normal atmospheric pressure and temperature, is only liquid at high pressure or low temperature. As far as the hobby goes there's no such thing as "liquid CO2" unless it's in your CO2 canister (which you should get). There are liquid carbon products that in one way or another supplement carbon, but they're not nearly as effective as CO2 gas. 

As far as methods of generating CO2, get the bells and whistles canister system. As long as you take care of it, it'll be there when you eventually upgrade to a larger tank. Even if you never do, the daily cost of running even a 5lb cylinder on a 9 gallon tank will work out to be pennies a day when it comes time to refill. Waaaaay back in the day I ran DIY CO2 on a 5.5 gal I had and it eventually became something I would forget to recharge and the tank eventually got enough algae that I just took it down. My other two tanks had pressurized gas and did great. 

Hope that was clear enough. 


Regards,
Phil


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Welcome back Phil! Would seem you have been missed 
Hope the mini vacation worked out well for you.


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

Immortal1 said:


> Welcome back Phil! Would seem you have been missed


You need to work on your aim then.


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## Dennis1234 (Mar 24, 2018)

*Brand new to the Forum / and beginner that needs help!*

Thanks so much for this thread and your offered help! 

After traveling for 7 months, my wife let my tank fall apart. It's been three months trying to get balance back and I feel like it's never going to happen!

I had the tank dialed in but currently have FAR MORE plants so I feel like I'm co2 deprived in my low tech set up but I'm just not ready to do a full co2 set up.

I'm currently running:

120 gallons
(2) Penn Plax cascade Canister Filters
(1) Single Sky Pad Light (running 11am-2pm, 4pm-9pm)

I also have the 24/7 light which was hooked up. I had them both on but algae was out of control.

Temp is 77 
PH is 8
KH is 7
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
Ammonia 0

adding api co2 boost daily and flourish excel once a week.

Fish is a combo of (4) guppies, (5) tetras, (4) swordtails, (4) cory cats and one clown loach. Also, Not sure if they're still alive (bc I haven't seen them in a while) but I had a bunch of amano shrimp. 

Plant Species Echinodorus, Java Ferns, Rotalas, Bulbotis (i've had for six years! theyre huge!) ludwigia and red lotus

PROBLEMS IM HAVING (aside from the chemistry you see above)

1. I just lost a dozen cardinals I ordered from liveaquaria.com. Even after acclimating, they had the ick within a day of entering my water.
2. My plants are stunted. No growth / Brown leaves
3. Algae is still pretty bad even after cutting the light back in half and also breaking my lighting cycle 

It seems like co2 during the day will solve the majority of my problems, but just not ready to do that. I also think I need to customize my filtration but not quite sure where to start! Please help!


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

Heya folks, I went back and found a couple parts of a guide to planted aquaria I'd written a while go. It's aimed primarily at beginner and intermediate hobbyists and should be a good resource for you to get some answers to a lot of the basic questions from. Check the 1st post, the links are in there.

Regards,
Phil


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## sveta (Mar 22, 2018)

*Bubbles in substrate*

Hey Phil, 

Ok one more for you. I have this 3.5 running right now. I've had it for about a month and a half, and until last week I wasn't really messing around with it too much. Lately I've been adding excel and have noticed that my plants are definitely making lots of O2 bubbles. I have also noticed that I have bubbles in my soil too. Not too sure if I should worry about it or not. (I attached some photos, not the best quality)


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## Hayleyxx (Mar 16, 2018)

*Things are improving over here!!*



Phil Edwards said:


> If that coin's a nickel or dime then that's perfect.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

sveta said:


> Hey Phil,
> 
> Ok one more for you. I have this 3.5 running right now. I've had it for about a month and a half, and until last week I wasn't really messing around with it too much. Lately I've been adding excel and have noticed that my plants are definitely making lots of O2 bubbles. I have also noticed that I have bubbles in my soil too. Not too sure if I should worry about it or not. (I attached some photos, not the best quality)


Plants' roots are aerobic too and need oxygen, so the plant pumps it down to them. Seeing bubbles like that is common around roots. It's also common in other places where there aren't roots as substrate bacteria put off gasses from metabolism just like we put off CO2.

Cheers,
Phil



Hayleyxx said:


> Hey Phil! So as per your suggestion I did purchase some liquid co2 just to see what type of improvement I would get from the plants. Holy moly, what a difference it made in the color after just a day! I will continue to dose the co2 daily as per the instructions until I can get up some extra funds to get a decent co2 kit. The plants seem much happier overall with this addition.


It's not liquid CO2, it's a liquid carbon supplement that contanins 0% CO2. Make sure to reinforce that in your head so it's not passed on. Liquid CO2 only exists at normal atmospheric temperature and pressure if it's in a container that's been supercooled or the gas is put under pressure. 

Get that pressurized CO2 system up and going as soon as you can. If you think the liquid supplement has helped, just you wait.





Hayleyxx said:


> I should have been a bit clearer in what I meant here. It actually wasn't moss at all that I added. They were dwarf baby tears that I glued to the bottom of one of my wood piece's and planted a bit next to it. Seems to be doing okay so far. I also added quite a number of new s. repens to the other side of the tank. I am going to purchase a tiger lotus bulb or two with the intention of giving somewhere to have the gourami's to hang when they get added to the tank.


Perfect! Here's your next assignment. Don't prune, trim, or otherwise fiddle with your plants until the entire bottom is covered and the S. repens is at least 4" tall. It's going to be tough, but hang in there and it will pay off. Giving your plants time to settle in after an initial planting is very important. They need time to grow a solid root system and adjust to their new environment before they can start to grow. As long as they're not covered in algae just let them be. This is especially true of the Dwarf Baby Tears (Hemianthus callitrichoides). Everyone here calls that HC. Cories and loaches will tear it all out if there's not a solid multilayer carpet of the stuff. 

The little plants and roots coming off the Java fern are babies. Let them grow to be two or three inches then super glue them down to wood or rocks to spread them out to other places in the tank or just cover the wood better.



Hayleyxx said:


> Still only running with the two rummy's, just finished the ich treatment and did a 50% wc and put the carbon filter back in. Gonna give myself a few days with good levels and happy fish before finishing off the school.


Give yourself another month before adding more fish to make sure the pararasite's out of the tank. Part of the Ich parasite's life cycle is in the substrate, so the fish may look clean for a couple weeks, but if the medicine didn't kill the ones in the substrate them your tank's still infected and all you'll end up doing is infecting more fish and having to do the treatment again a couple of times.




Hayleyxx said:


> I will definitely pick up some of the equilibrium this week. Is there a test or brand that you prefer to check these parameters? I had a slight spike in nitrites and ammonia (normal to the cycling process as I was told in another post I made) and did the big water change today so hopefully all is equaled out in those senses.


It's best to not do a water change during a cycle as it will just set the cycle back. It needs to run its full course before doing major water changes. Having to clear out the medication is understandable and was necessary. From here, try to not do any water changes until all Ammonia and Nitrites are undetectable and Nitrate is increasing.

Regards,
Phil


----------



## squirrelsgonewild (Mar 24, 2018)

Hey I’m new to forum and new to having a planted tank. I currently have a 125 gallon tank with two large pieces of driftwood that i have 5 java ferns attached to. I have a low tech set up not running injected CO2. I am daily dosing API CO2 booster measured based on my tank size. I am also doing dosing twice a week Seachem Flourish. Almost all of my java ferns have a ton of brown on them and don’t seem to be adjusting well. I have reduced my lighting time as I run 10k led lights on the tank as I know they are a lower light plant. I am considering starting dry fertilizer to increase nutrients in the water column. Looking for advice on how to improve my java fern health.


----------



## MadDiscus (Aug 7, 2011)

Phil Edwards said:


> Quote:
> 
> Originally Posted by[censored]MadDiscus[censored]View Post
> 
> ...


Thank you Phil for your time. 
I'll drop Blyxa and want to keep downoi because it's listed on low tech plants stickies. I have couple tanks 20 to 300g and they are barebottom with sump. I replace HOB with 20g sump for this planted tank. My goal is easy maintain.


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## Hayleyxx (Mar 16, 2018)

“It's not liquid CO2, it's a liquid carbon supplement that contanins 0% CO2. Make sure to reinforce that in your head so it's not passed on. Liquid CO2 only exists at normal atmospheric temperature and pressure if it's in a container that's been supercooled or the gas is put under pressure.”


UH OH. HAHA!!! Okay well in that case I will pick one up this week. They sell the fluval 20g co2 kit at the local place by me. Any opinions on this? I’ve seen people online that have had major success with this one that have the exact tank type and similar plants.

“Perfect! Here's your next assignment. Don't prune, trim, or otherwise fiddle with your plants until the entire bottom is covered and the S. repens is at least 4" tall. It's going to be tough, but hang in there and it will pay off. Giving your plants time to settle in after an initial planting is very important. They need time to grow a solid root system and adjust to their new environment before they can start to grow. As long as they're not covered in algae just let them be. This is especially true of the Dwarf Baby Tears (Hemianthus callitrichoides). Everyone here calls that HC. Cories and loaches will tear it all out if there's not a solid multilayer carpet of the stuff. 

The little plants and roots coming off the Java fern are babies. Let them grow to be two or three inches then super glue them down to wood or rocks to spread them out to other places in the tank or just cover the wood better.”


I was thinking 3-4 inches was a safe point to begin the pruning and replanting business but thanks for clarifying that. The HC will basically begin to carpet on its own? To be honest I can tell ya right now that it may be my biggest nightmare that I’ve had so far. It was difficult to plant (to be frank, the plants weren’t the best quality either. Big box retailer, should’ve known better 🙄) and it has given me a fair amount of headache from being uprooted with the simplest of cleanings. If worst comes to worse it comes out. I have a strong feeling the s repens will thrive much more, and with them being as hardy and healthy as they are (noticing changes already after not even being in the tank 24 hours) I wouldn’t be to upset about the loss. It’s pretty but it’s definitely a pain. As you said before, plants will come and go and that is totally fine with me! 

I got the s repens from an amazon seller and they came in much much healthier than I expected. I left a few of the pieces I planted relatively large so I’m hoping that from causing less trauma to the root system that they will be happy little ones. I believe I saw in one of your responses that people within the forum sell plants. Do you think I would have success finding the bulbs on here for the lily plant? 

“Give yourself another month before adding more fish to make sure the pararasite's out of the tank. Part of the Ich parasite's life cycle is in the substrate, so the fish may look clean for a couple weeks, but if the medicine didn't kill the ones in the substrate them your tank's still infected and all you'll end up doing is infecting more fish and having to do the treatment again a couple of times.”


Will do. I agree, not worth the trouble AT ALL. Plus the plants will have time to establish themselves. All comes in time. It’s so funny because I’ve had a few people over and everyone oohs and aaahs and then goes....but why two tiny fish?! It’s hard to explain but I just say “they’ll be in there one day” hahah


“It's best to not do a water change during a cycle as it will just set the cycle back. It needs to run its full course before doing major water changes. Having to clear out the medication is understandable and was necessary. From here, try to not do any water changes until all Ammonia and Nitrites are undetectable and Nitrate is increasing

Regards,
Phil”

I actually posted about the ammonia and nitrite spike in the parameters forum and the information I got seemed generally correct but kind of confusing. I believe someone actually advised me thay I should be doing 50% wc weekly and I was stumped. Isnt the entire purpose for the ammonia to turn to nitrites and then the bacteria changes it to nitrates? I was really puzzled. Was definitely expecting to do small changes but large changes have high impact on everything in the tank. When I had a really well established non planted tank I literally performed 30% cleanings/wc monthly and just added water as it evaporated. That seemed like it would completely render the cycling process pointless. The medicine had to go, but from here on out nothing but tiny cleanups unless I see something really out of whack.

Thanks again Phil for your great insight!! Hope your having a relaxing weekend and all your tanks are cooperating!


----------



## KrypleBerry (May 23, 2017)

Subjected said:


> @Phil Edwards, I am by no means new to the hobby but was wondering if you might by chance have any data on Aquascaping rocks. As in which ones raise kH, pH, gH and by how much. I have about 25lbs of Elephant Skin Stone in a 12 Long and would be curious as to the outcome.
> 
> Steve


If curious you can easily obtain muriatic acid from your local hardware/pool supply and dilute it to 10% with water to create a 10% hydrochloric acid solution used by field geologists. Its what I used for our tanks (all our tanks have hand collected wood and rock in them).


----------



## Subjected (Feb 6, 2018)

KrypleBerry said:


> If curious you can easily obtain muriatic acid from your local hardware/pool supply and dilute it to 10% with water to create a 10% hydrochloric acid solution used by field geologists. Its what I used for our tanks (all our tanks have hand collected wood and rock in them).


That's a good bit of info, Thanks.


----------



## ThatSkrimpyboio (Mar 15, 2018)

I was wondering if you could give me some suggestions for cichlids for a 50-60 gallon aquarium that I'm having built ? My limits are that they must be under 5 in ,under $10 and ,very important, not aggressive usually but if they are spawning it is fine if they are agressive.


----------



## benosa562 (Feb 14, 2018)

Which looks better
















Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## FishCrazyMan (Mar 9, 2018)

*New threads*

How do I start a new thread/question? or is this how... I wanted to know if anyone had a plant identification book that they would recommend for natural plants for aquariums in Georgia?


----------



## Pashody (Oct 19, 2017)

benosa562 said:


> Which looks better
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Picture number 2


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## benosa562 (Feb 14, 2018)

Pashody said:


> Picture number 2
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks! I messed around with it more. Which one now lol
















Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Jolo410 (Mar 27, 2018)

Sick weather loach
Hey man, I'm quite worried for my weather loach here. 

I have two of these guys in a 200L fully planted tank.
One of the loaches has been getting large swelling all over it's body for the past couple of months. Now his whole bottom half is swollen and his skin looks like little bubbles. I love this guy and don't want him/her (not sure, I think female?) to die. The other is perfectly healthy.

I have fed him skinned boiled peas, and tomorrow I hope to pick up some Epsom salts as I have read it may be a blocked digestive system.

Tank specs: 
200L
23 degrees C
Fully planted
Substrate: JBL Manado 

I do weekly 50% water changes and do a full filter clean every month or so.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!


----------



## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

Hey folks,

Sorry about the delayed replies. I'm currently undergoing a pretty harsh chemotherapy treatment and it knocked me out for a while. I'll be making sure to come by and check this as I'm able. It's surprising how hard it can be to find the mental energy and clarity to give good answers when one is hopped up on meds. LOL




squirrelsgonewild said:


> Hey I’m new to forum and new to having a planted tank. I currently have a 125 gallon tank with two large pieces of driftwood that i have 5 java ferns attached to. I have a low tech set up not running injected CO2. I am daily dosing API CO2 booster measured based on my tank size. I am also doing dosing twice a week Seachem Flourish. Almost all of my java ferns have a ton of brown on them and don’t seem to be adjusting well. I have reduced my lighting time as I run 10k led lights on the tank as I know they are a lower light plant. I am considering starting dry fertilizer to increase nutrients in the water column. Looking for advice on how to improve my java fern health.


Welcome to The Planted Tank! It sounds like you've got a good start there. If it were my tank I'd get Equilibrium and dose 2 TABLEspoons weekly. Some of the best Java Ferns I ever grew used pretty much this regimen. As for lighting, if all you have are the ferns, you can set the lights to be on only while you're home to see the tank. Otherwise they can be off. That'll help with algae as well.



Dennis1234 said:


> It seems like co2 during the day will solve the majority of my problems, but just not ready to do that. I also think I need to customize my filtration but not quite sure where to start! Please help!


Hey there Dennis, sorry to hear about your aquarium. Let's start at the beginning; yes CO2 will help your tank a lot, and may be exactly what it needs given the amount of plant mass in the tank. Since/if that's not something you're ready to pull the trigger on yet, here's what I would do: pull out all your plants, trim them well, and replant. For stems, you'd be keeping the top 6 inches. Just pull off or cut the outer leaves of the sword down at the base until you've got 4-5 leaves. The lily should just be replanted. If you want to try propagating it; gently pull it out of the corm, it should come out roots and all, plant it, then plant the corm. If you've got plants like Crypts and Vals thin them out and replant the largest ones. Your Crypts (if any) may melt, but they'll come back.

Sometimes a tank just needs a good hard reset; especially when it gets overgrown and neglected.



Hayleyxx said:


> UH OH. HAHA!!! Okay well in that case I will pick one up this week. They sell the fluval 20g co2 kit at the local place by me. Any opinions on this? I’ve seen people online that have had major success with this one that have the exact tank type and similar plants.


Opinions are varied on this product. The folks I know who've used it were less than satisfied. I would look into the ISTA brand if you need to save space.



Hayleyxx said:


> I was thinking 3-4 inches was a safe point to begin the pruning and replanting business but thanks for clarifying that. The HC will basically begin to carpet on its own? To be honest I can tell ya right now that it may be my biggest nightmare that I’ve had so far. It was difficult to plant (to be frank, the plants weren’t the best quality either. Big box retailer, should’ve known better 🙄) and it has given me a fair amount of headache from being uprooted with the simplest of cleanings. If worst comes to worse it comes out. I have a strong feeling the s repens will thrive much more, and with them being as hardy and healthy as they are (noticing changes already after not even being in the tank 24 hours) I wouldn’t be to upset about the loss. It’s pretty but it’s definitely a pain. As you said before, plants will come and go and that is totally fine with me!


It's usually best to let the plants grow all the way up to the surface for the first few trimmings to give them a chance to settle in and build up a nutrient reserve. Trimming too often can cause issues and kill your plants (I've done it). HC can be a nightmare, yes. It can also be really pretty though too.



Hayleyxx said:


> I got the s repens from an amazon seller and they came in much much healthier than I expected. I left a few of the pieces I planted relatively large so I’m hoping that from causing less trauma to the root system that they will be happy little ones. I believe I saw in one of your responses that people within the forum sell plants. Do you think I would have success finding the bulbs on here for the lily plant?


All sorts of different plants are available here. It all depends on who's selling what. You can post a Want To Buy (WTB) thread in that section and folks will let you know if they have it.



Hayleyxx said:


> Will do. I agree, not worth the trouble AT ALL. Plus the plants will have time to establish themselves. All comes in time. It’s so funny because I’ve had a few people over and everyone oohs and aaahs and then goes....but why two tiny fish?! It’s hard to explain but I just say “they’ll be in there one day” hahah


I only have one single lonely Otto in my tank, so don't feel bad. There will be some in there eventually. 



Hayleyxx said:


> Isnt the entire purpose for the ammonia to turn to nitrites and then the bacteria changes it to nitrates? I was really puzzled. Was definitely expecting to do small changes but large changes have high impact on everything in the tank.


One of the most popular regimens for keeping planted tanks calls for weely 50% water changes, so that's probably what people were referring to, but perhaps hadn't read your post quite thoroughly enough. 



Hayleyxx said:


> When I had a really well established non planted tank I literally performed 30% cleanings/wc monthly and just added water as it evaporated. That seemed like it would completely render the cycling process pointless. The medicine had to go, but from here on out nothing but tiny cleanups unless I see something really out of whack.


Be prepared to start doing larger and more frequent water changes with the plant tank. Even low tech systems require more frequent maintenance than "fishtanks".



Hayleyxx said:


> Thanks again Phil for your great insight!! Hope your having a relaxing weekend and all your tanks are cooperating!


As far as I know they are. I got a couple pictures of it the other day and it looks like my guys are taking good care of it. The shrimp are certainly breeding.



ThatSkrimpyboio said:


> I was wondering if you could give me some suggestions for cichlids for a 50-60 gallon aquarium that I'm having built ? My limits are that they must be under 5 in ,under $10 and ,very important, not aggressive usually but if they are spawning it is fine if they are agressive.


I would recommend Blue Rams, Apistogramma, or Kribensis for a planted tank. Most other cichlids get too large and cost too much. 



FishCrazyMan said:


> How do I start a new thread/question? or is this how... I wanted to know if anyone had a plant identification book that they would recommend for natural plants for aquariums in Georgia?


There will be a black "Post New Thread" button on the left side of the screen in the section you want to post under. Click that and you're off to the races.

There aren't any good basic guides to native water plants that you'd want to have in your aquarium; at least in Georgia. The state's full of suitable plants though. I'd basically go "ditch diving" and pull up things that look to be likely candidates. I found all sorts of Ludwigia, Juncus, Cyperus, Eliocharis, and Bacopa when I did environmental work there.



Jolo410 said:


> Sick weather loach
> Hey man, I'm quite worried for my weather loach here.


Hey there Jolo, sorry to hear about your fish. Based on the picture and the fact it's been going on for a couple months chances tell me it's a significant disease and not constipation. If you're able to get it out of the tank and into a hospital system I would do so and treat with KanaPlex. Other than that, I'm sorry, I don't know of much else to do.

Bump:


benosa562 said:


> Which looks better


Hey there again benosa,

There's an entire sub forum dedicated to aquascaping. Please post your pictures there for more specific advice.

Cheers,
Phil


----------



## Hayleyxx (Mar 16, 2018)

Hayleyxx said:


> UH OH. HAHA!!! Okay well in that case I will pick one up this week. They sell the fluval 20g co2 kit at the local place by me. Any opinions on this? I’ve seen people online that have had major success with this one that have the exact tank type and similar plants.


Opinions are varied on this product. The folks I know who've used it were less than satisfied. I would look into the ISTA brand if you need to save space.



Hayleyxx said:


> I was thinking 3-4 inches was a safe point to begin the pruning and replanting business but thanks for clarifying that. The HC will basically begin to carpet on its own? To be honest I can tell ya right now that it may be my biggest nightmare that I’ve had so far. It was difficult to plant (to be frank, the plants weren’t the best quality either. Big box retailer, should’ve known better 🙄<a href="http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/images/smilie/icon_wink.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Wink" ></a> and it has given me a fair amount of headache from being uprooted with the simplest of cleanings. If worst comes to worse it comes out. I have a strong feeling the s repens will thrive much more, and with them being as hardy and healthy as they are (noticing changes already after not even being in the tank 24 hours) I wouldn’t be to upset about the loss. It’s pretty but it’s definitely a pain. As you said before, plants will come and go and that is totally fine with me!


It's usually best to let the plants grow all the way up to the surface for the first few trimmings to give them a chance to settle in and build up a nutrient reserve. Trimming too often can cause issues and kill your plants (I've done it). HC can be a nightmare, yes. It can also be really pretty though too.



Hayleyxx said:


> I got the s repens from an amazon seller and they came in much much healthier than I expected. I left a few of the pieces I planted relatively large so I’m hoping that from causing less trauma to the root system that they will be happy little ones. I believe I saw in one of your responses that people within the forum sell plants. Do you think I would have success finding the bulbs on here for the lily plant?


All sorts of different plants are available here. It all depends on who's selling what. You can post a Want To Buy (WTB) thread in that section and folks will let you know if they have it.



Hayleyxx said:


> Will do. I agree, not worth the trouble AT ALL. Plus the plants will have time to establish themselves. All comes in time. It’s so funny because I’ve had a few people over and everyone oohs and aaahs and then goes....but why two tiny fish?! It’s hard to explain but I just say “they’ll be in there one day” hahah


I only have one single lonely Otto in my tank, so don't feel bad. There will be some in there eventually. <a href="http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/images/smilie/icon_smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" ></a>



Hayleyxx said:


> Isnt the entire purpose for the ammonia to turn to nitrites and then the bacteria changes it to nitrates? I was really puzzled. Was definitely expecting to do small changes but large changes have high impact on everything in the tank.


One of the most popular regimens for keeping planted tanks calls for weely 50% water changes, so that's probably what people were referring to, but perhaps hadn't read your post quite thoroughly enough. <a href="http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/images/smilie/icon_wink.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Wink" ></a>



Hayleyxx said:


> When I had a really well established non planted tank I literally performed 30% cleanings/wc monthly and just added water as it evaporated. That seemed like it would completely render the cycling process pointless. The medicine had to go, but from here on out nothing but tiny cleanups unless I see something really out of whack.


Be prepared to start doing larger and more frequent water changes with the plant tank. Even low tech systems require more frequent maintenance than "fishtanks".



Hayleyxx said:


> Thanks again Phil for your great insight!! Hope your having a relaxing weekend and all your tanks are cooperating!


As far as I know they are. I got a couple pictures of it the other day and it looks like my guys are taking good care of it![/quote]

Hey Phil!! 

Hope your feeling okay!!! So...I ended up getting the fluval 45g kit. Believe it or not, I actually am pretty satisfied. The diffuser didn’t work until it soaked but I may make some upgrades to that and the bubble counter in the future but for now I’m happy. I managed to do what I wanted which was an extremely slow release (literally 1 bubble every 15 seconds) 24-7 which in 2 days has yielded some really awesome results just like you said. The plants are growing well, much greener, and I’m noticing the lidwigia is startingto have fuller, more rapid leaf growth. 

The water changes won’t be a problem at all. To be honest, I would like to have it so that it was one larger amount of maintenance in a day and then little clear ups here and there if needed. The ich is still at bay, the fish seem happier than they’ve been thus far. I did a small wc earlier in the week and I’m going to go back in for another tonight. Just tested my water and these are the parameters:

Ph-7.2
Am-.25
Nitrite-sort of between 0 and .25
Nitrate-slightly less than 5

This thing is taking forever and a year to cycle. At least my fish and doing well can’t ask for much more I don’t think.


I follow a plant company on social media called H20 plants that has some really awesome stuff. I ordered from them last night and was shocked to find out they are located only 15 minutes away. I’m picking up my tiger lotus personally tomorrow from the owner and I’m a little over excited to say the least. Hopefully I get to see some of his tanks, and I really hope I don’t make myself look stupid out of excitement, haha. 

Thanks so much for everything. After a couple exchanges I checked out your profile and was blown away by your tanks. your experience and knowledge has been an immense help and impacting my ownpersonal experience so much. It’s been a real pleasure picking your brain for knowledge Phil! 😂


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## KrypleBerry (May 23, 2017)

fishkullerclams said:


> Is it true that the meaning of life is 42


Unequivocally. Dont forget your towel, they are handy.


----------



## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

Hayleyxx said:


> Thanks so much for everything. After a couple exchanges I checked out your profile and was blown away by your tanks. your experience and knowledge has been an immense help and impacting my own personal experience so much. It’s been a real pleasure picking your brain for knowledge Phil! 😂


I'm glad to hear that, thank you, and you're welcome. 

Bump:


fishkullerclams said:


> Is it true that the meaning of life is 42


Yes it is.


----------



## squirrelsgonewild (Mar 24, 2018)

Hey Phil thanks for the reply hope your recovery with your treatments goes welll. I thought about doing Seachem Equilibrium once a week but was concerned it might raise my PH which is already on the high side. I recently started adding dry fertilizers to my tank based on dosing i found from the barr report on non CO2 injected tanks. I’m adding 3/4 of a teaspoon of KNO3 and 1/2 teaspoon of KH2P04 twice a week. I am also still doing Seachem Flourish twice a week as well as my daily CO2 add. I just started doing this routine this week and haven’t noticed a big change yet. You think it will take more time or do I need to reduce my lighting further?


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

squirrelsgonewild said:


> Hey Phil thanks for the reply hope your recovery with your treatments goes well.


Everything's going as expected these days. Some times are up, some times are down, but it's all going as anticipated. 



squirrelsgonewild said:


> I thought about doing Seachem Equilibrium once a week but was concerned it might raise my PH which is already on the high side.


Equilibrium is a General Hardness (GH), not Carbonate Hardness (KH) booster, so it won't mess with your pH significantly. 



squirrelsgonewild said:


> I recently started adding dry fertilizers to my tank based on dosing i found from the barr report on non CO2 injected tanks. I’m adding 3/4 of a teaspoon of KNO3 and 1/2 teaspoon of KH2P04 twice a week.


How big's your tank? My 90 gallon main display gets that much NO3 3x/week and a lot less PO4 at the same time. 



squirrelsgonewild said:


> I am also still doing Seachem Flourish twice a week as well as my daily CO2 add. I just started doing this routine this week and haven’t noticed a big change yet. You think it will take more time or do I need to reduce my lighting further?


Give it time. Lots of time. Sit on your thumbs until they fall off.


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## squirrelsgonewild (Mar 24, 2018)

Thanks again for all the the info I will do my best to be patient haha. My tank is 125 gallons.


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## Littlemadfish (Mar 22, 2018)

Hello, I'm just coming in to ask what are some reliable websites to buy fish??


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

Littlemadfish said:


> Hello, I'm just coming in to ask what are some reliable websites to buy fish??


Invertebrates by Mzjinkd, mzjinkd.com is great, but the owner it taking a hiatus for a few months. 

The Wet Spot, wetspottropicalfish.com has an excellent reputation and normally has a large selection.

Last, but not least is Aquabid, AquaBid.com - Sell or buy aquarium equipment and fish in an auction format Lots of top breeders and importers sell fish there


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## Mailbox (Jan 10, 2018)

*Bio load*

I was wondering if my bioload is too small for my set up. I have a 29 gallon bow front with a sunsun hw302.
Stocking 11 neon tetras, 5 rcs
Tank has been set up for some time and is moderately planted. I am currently dealing with some ammonia which has made my tetras have tail rot I believe which I am dosing melafix for curently. I also dose Nilocg thrive 2 pumps twice a week and have 3 or 4 flourish root tabs. And use half a cap of flourish excel. I am wondering if I need to get some more fish in there to keep the bacteria alive or if I'm having another issue. Possibly you could shed some light on this issue for me.


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## IntotheWRX (May 13, 2016)

Hi Phil,

Thanks for offering your time and expertise.

my question: Filter inflow pipe placement - Can I have it near a group of stem plants? Will it muffle the suction too much? Let's say a dutch scape, can the inflow pipe be sucking water behind a wall of densely planted stem plants?


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## ryanthamilton7 (Apr 3, 2018)

I am a total aquarium amateur starting my first ever tank and attempting a jungle/dutch style aquascape, I'm probably in way over my head! Anyhow I've been doing a ton of reading online and there is an overwhelming amount of info, lots of which is conflicting, so I'm very grateful that you posted this thread! Anyhow here's what I've got so far:

20G long tank
Aqueon quietflow internal filter (40 gallon)
100w heater
Nicrew classic 28" light (white & blue LED, 7500k, 18w)
For substrate I used organic potting soil after rinsing thoroughly and straining to get all the wood chips out. Probably at least 50% of the bag was wood chips which was extremely annoying to sift through. I capped it with a bag of eco complete. Currently in the process of doing a fishless/plantless cycle while some driftwood I collected is soaking.

Does this sound like an adequate setup to build a heavily planted tank? I'm concerned that I may not have enough light. Also, I was hoping to avoid messing with CO2, but I'm willing to rig up a DIY set if it's necessary.

As far as plants go, I'm kind of overwhelmed and would love some suggestions on what to start with as well as where to buy them. My local fish store(s) have very little in the way of live plants so I was hoping to find a reasonable place to buy online. I'd love to do a carpet in the foreground and get some mid height plants around my driftwood and tall plants behind it. Not a huge fan of broad leaf varieties if I can avoid them. Any advice here is appreciated, I have no idea where to start!

Finally, I conditioned my tap water and the PH is at 8.4, what's the best way to get this down to the correct number (6.5-7?) for tetras & maybe some shrimp?


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

Mailbox said:


> I was wondering if my bioload is too small for my set up. I have a 29 gallon bow front with a sunsun hw302.
> Stocking 11 neon tetras, 5 rcs
> 
> Tank has been set up for some time and is moderately planted. I am currently dealing with some ammonia which has made my tetras have tail rot I believe which I am dosing melafix for curently. I also dose Nilocg thrive 2 pumps twice a week and have 3 or 4 flourish root tabs. And use half a cap of flourish excel. I am wondering if I need to get some more fish in there to keep the bacteria alive or if I'm having another issue. Possibly you could shed some light on this issue for me.


Hello Mailbox. Eleven neons is a small bioload for the tank, but the system should have stabilized to that number of fish at some point. Have you recently exposed one of the root tabs? Sometimes that can cause issues. Did you happen to wash all your filter media at the same time? That's an easy way to start a mini cycle.



IntotheWRX said:


> Hi Phil,
> 
> Thanks for offering your time and expertise.


You're welcome!



IntotheWRX said:


> my question: Filter inflow pipe placement - Can I have it near a group of stem plants? Will it muffle the suction too much? Let's say a dutch scape, can the inflow pipe be sucking water behind a wall of densely planted stem plants?


You can absolutely have it near a group of stems. You'll need to be a bit more vigilant in siphoning the surface mulm in the rest of the tank, but many of the best Dutch, Dutch aquascapers, have their filter intakes next to plants.



ryanthamilton7 said:


> I am a total aquarium amateur starting my first ever tank and attempting a jungle/dutch style aquascape, I'm probably in way over my head! Anyhow I've been doing a ton of reading online and there is an overwhelming amount of info, lots of which is conflicting, so I'm very grateful that you posted this thread! Anyhow here's what I've got so far:
> 
> 20G long tank
> Aqueon quietflow internal filter (40 gallon)
> ...


Hello Ryan,

That sounds like it would be good as a low-light, low-metabolism tank for slower growing plants. I would add the following two things to your list Seachem Equilibrium and Excel. The Equilibrium will add Calcium, Magnesium, and Potassium; things that potting soils usually lack. The Excel is a liquid carbon source (NOT LIQUID CO2) that works well for systems like yours.



ryanthamilton7 said:


> As far as plants go, I'm kind of overwhelmed and would love some suggestions on what to start with as well as where to buy them. My local fish store(s) have very little in the way of live plants so I was hoping to find a reasonable place to buy online. I'd love to do a carpet in the foreground and get some mid height plants around my driftwood and tall plants behind it. Not a huge fan of broad leaf varieties if I can avoid them. Any advice here is appreciated, I have no idea where to start!


Look in the For Sale and Want To Buy sections of the members forum here. It's a great place to buy plants and let folks know you're looking for things. 



ryanthamilton7 said:


> Finally, I conditioned my tap water and the PH is at 8.4, what's the best way to get this down to the correct number (6.5-7?) for tetras & maybe some shrimp?


8.4 isn't bad. I've got a rule of thumb "Work With the Water You've Got" that saves a lot of hassle trying to reach certain numbers by adding chemicals. There are a lot of plants that'll do well in that pH. One thing I'd recommend is filling a cup with tap water and letting it sit for a couple days then retesting pH. You may see a significant difference.

Cheers,
Phil


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## Hayleyxx (Mar 16, 2018)

ryanthamilton7 said:


> I am a total aquarium amateur starting my first ever tank and attempting a jungle/dutch style aquascape, I'm probably in way over my head! Anyhow I've been doing a ton of reading online and there is an overwhelming amount of info, lots of which is conflicting, so I'm very grateful that you posted this thread! Anyhow here's what I've got so far:
> 
> 20G long tank
> Aqueon quietflow internal filter (40 gallon)
> ...



Well, I am also a beginner as well. one month in with a fish in cycle as per the recommendation of the lfs guy which ended up making the first few weeks really frustrating. Good news is the people in this thread have an insane amount of knowledge that you we’ll greatly appreciate. Your substrate might need some fertilizer when you get plants in, any ideas on what your planning on using? I used fluval stratum along with flourish and excel. I also just introduced co2 which has been a neat experience. 

I had a 30” dual LED hood which works well. If your hood can accommodate more light, you could get another bulb but I would wait more established and knowledgeable people to respond bc I don’t want to steer you in the wrong direction. 

As far as plants are concerned don’t waste your time w large stores. Either buy through here (there are threads for purchasing) or there are also some decent amazon vendors. I personally have purchased from h2oplants which is an online story but the owner lives close by so I pick it up direct. Im going the shrimp route too but this cycling is taking me foreeeever


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## Mailbox (Jan 10, 2018)

Phil Edwards said:


> Hello Mailbox. Eleven neons is a small bioload for the tank, but the system should have stabilized to that number of fish at some point. Have you recently exposed one of the root tabs? Sometimes that can cause issues. Did you happen to wash all your filter media at the same time? That's an easy way to start a mini cycle.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The root tabs are starting to create black spots on my sand which I have a thread about. I have not washed the filter media. I'm going to guess that it's the tabs creating an issue.

Bump: Sorry I am still not sure how to quote just one thing yet lol.


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## Kelliott14 (Apr 4, 2018)

I currently have a 15g tank with only a Betta and some manzanita wood and rocks. I am wanting to add some panda corydoras and som tummy nose tetras or something along those lines. How many of those do you think I could add to my 15g with my Betta In there also?


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

Mailbox said:


> The root tabs are starting to create black spots on my sand which I have a thread about. I have not washed the filter media. I'm going to guess that it's the tabs creating an issue.
> 
> Bump: Sorry I am still not sure how to quote just one thing yet lol.


The black spots are anaerobic areas and are completely natural as you've added nutrients that the bacteria can use too. There's no need to be afraid of a substrate going anaerobic, oxygen doesn't penetrate very far into substrates so there's very little to no oxygen except around plants' roots. All you've got to do is be careful when messing around with areas where you've put a tab. I've had the exact same thing happen in the past, so you're not a unique case. 



Kelliott14 said:


> I currently have a 15g tank with only a Betta and some manzanita wood and rocks. I am wanting to add some panda corydoras and som tummy nose tetras or something along those lines. How many of those do you think I could add to my 15g with my Betta In there also?


Both of those species would be good for a 15 gallon. I'd get 9 Rummynose and 5 Panda Cories and call it good. Just make sure to get one group and let the tank adjust before adding the others. A single betta is likely not enough to really cycle a tank so you're going to get a cycle when you add more fish. Along those lines, I'd add the Cories first as Rummynose can be rather sensitive in some cases.


Regards,
Phil


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## KrypleBerry (May 23, 2017)

Kelliott14 said:


> I currently have a 15g tank with only a Betta and some manzanita wood and rocks. I am wanting to add some panda corydoras and som tummy nose tetras or something along those lines. How many of those do you think I could add to my 15g with my Betta In there also?


 I would have also recommended at least adding the other fish first since bettas are aggressive and territorial. A betta in a tank alone claims the whole tank as territory and wont be all to happy to see new fish. Hope it works out.


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## kookyxogirl (Nov 13, 2017)

Hi Phil,
I’m sorry to hear about your chemo and I hope you feel better. If you have a chance I would like to show you my first aquascape . Something is off about it and I would love your 2 cents! 
Let me know and I will post a few pics.
God Bless , Dar[emoji4]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

kookyxogirl said:


> Hi Phil,
> I’m sorry to hear about your chemo and I hope you feel better. If you have a chance I would like to show you my first aquascape . Something is off about it and I would love your 2 cents!
> Let me know and I will post a few pics.
> God Bless , Dar[emoji4]
> ...


Hey there Kooky,

Why don't you start a journal in the Tank Journal section. That way you'll get feedback from more people than just me. Keep in mind that we all love to see pictures of other peoples' tanks. 

Regards,
Phil


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## kookyxogirl (Nov 13, 2017)

Hi Phi , I’m new the forum and not sure how to do that but will do my research.
Here is a pic of my tank. 
A big piece of wood moved over and I put a rock on it for now so I know that has to go more to the left. Some plants are uprooted and I will be placing Buce on the branches and hopefully some moss if I can find it.
Please don’t be gentle! 🤣










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## famoej (Feb 17, 2018)

*plant success and yellow leaves- help!*

Phil- My red sea max 130d converted to fresh with CO2 setup and 2 Finnex 24/7 lights running cycle- Plenty of growth but plans dont seem to stay bright green. I dose with Thrive+ and do about 5gal per week change- RO Water from house and a softener. PH is spot on. See the images. Not sure what else to add or alter to improve.


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## GustavoMoura (Dec 14, 2017)

Hey Phil,
I have just set up my 120-gallon tank and thanks a lot for your help! I wanted to ask you something, some of my plants are melting(Crypts and S. Repens). What should I do? The crypts I understand that it is normal that they melt but the S. Repens really scares me. Also, for ammonia to start the cycle, would this work? https://www.amazon.com/Fritz-Aquati...8&qid=1523139832&sr=1-2&keywords=pure+ammonia


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

famoej said:


> Phil- My red sea max 130d converted to fresh with CO2 setup and 2 Finnex 24/7 lights running cycle- Plenty of growth but plans dont seem to stay bright green. I dose with Thrive+ and do about 5gal per week change- RO Water from house and a softener. PH is spot on. See the images. Not sure what else to add or alter to improve.


Looking at the top two pictures everything looks healthy to me. The Anubias look a bit Potassium deficient, but that's about it. I'm not familiar with the details of the various Thrive products so I can't offer any advice there other than make sure you're dosing as instructed. Otherwise things look good.

Questions like this are best asked in the fertilizer sub forum as that's where the nutrient experts hang out. Also, please make sure to start a journal so we can follow your progress and offer advice and support along the way.



GustavoMoura said:


> Hey Phil,
> I have just set up my 120-gallon tank and thanks a lot for your help! I wanted to ask you something, some of my plants are melting(Crypts and S. Repens). What should I do? The crypts I understand that it is normal that they melt but the S. Repens really scares me. Also, for ammonia to start the cycle, would this work?


Gustavo,

If you want to do a fishless cycle then that Fritz product would be good. As for the melt, my normal advice is let it happen, keep the area clean and give the plants time to grow back. 

Regards,
Phil


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## oval291 (Dec 19, 2016)

Phil Edwards said:


> If you're not going to be getting the tank for a month, you can start maturing the soil now. 5 gallon buckets, dirt, gravel, and water. Bingo!


Took this quote from another thread and as I did not to hijack decided to ask here.....Can you expand on the process of maturing the soil...


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

Sure thing. The process of mineralization, or as I said, maturing, soil involves submerging and drying it in alternate cycles. This allows bacteria to break down large organic chemicals in the soil into their constituent parts, allowing plants to access nutrients more easily. Sean Murphy and Aaron Talbot wrote a very good article on the subject. I disagree that clay is necessary, but the process of mineralization is important for soil in aquariums.


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## Vallisneria (Mar 15, 2018)

Hi Phil. Still doing my research for a tank. I would like to do the minimum amount of tweaking with the water once the tank is set up so it seems like i should base plants and fish on what comes out of the tap. I live in NYC and tested my tap water after letting it aerate for a couple days. Results were:

TDS: 48ppm
PH: 6.5
KH: 2 dkh/35ppm
GH: 3 dkh/53ppm

Is it safe to assume these values won’t change too radically in a planted tank and that I should make stocking choices based on what does well in softer water?


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

Vallisneria said:


> Hi Phil. Still doing my research for a tank. I would like to do the minimum amount of tweaking with the water once the tank is set up so it seems like i should base plants and fish on what comes out of the tap. I live in NYC and tested my tap water after letting it aerate for a couple days. Results were:
> 
> TDS: 48ppm
> PH: 6.5
> ...


Exactly right. On the plus side NYC has some of the best tap water in the nation. You're lucky! Your tap values are a lot like mine and you may want to add a little KH booster (Baking Soda) and GH booster (Seachem Equilibrium, GLA GH booster, etc) to bump the values up just a little, but otherwise don't mess with what's not broken.

Regards,
Phil


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## Rem-airem (Apr 18, 2018)

I've got one for you Phil!!

I recently flooded my tank. I have a potting mix sub capped with more coarse sand. I pushed a lot of that sand around when I flooded the tank, I was using a plate to dissipate the water though it was just too fast initially. Long story short I have potting mix clouding up my water and it resting on top of my sand substrate. For the most part the sand cap is in place. I still have plants to add ( dry started HC and glued some Java moss a few days before flooding).

What would you do to ensure you have clear water from this point on.

thanks!! I know the question is a bit vague.


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

Rem-airem said:


> I've got one for you Phil!!
> 
> I recently flooded my tank. I have a potting mix sub capped with more coarse sand. I pushed a lot of that sand around when I flooded the tank, I was using a plate to dissipate the water though it was just too fast initially. Long story short I have potting mix clouding up my water and it resting on top of my sand substrate. For the most part the sand cap is in place. I still have plants to add ( dry started HC and glued some Java moss a few days before flooding).
> 
> ...


Easy; do a good surface vacuum of the gravel to get all the soil near the surface sucked out. If at all possible, add more gravel to make sure you've got at least an inch in all places; especially those areas that got mixed up. When filling after a water change in the future, go slowly and keep the flow gentle. A colander will help too.

You may get some green water. If you do, don't freak out, it's ok and is the tank's ecosystem trying to balance itself out. It may not look good, but I've never had plants suffer because of GW in the past. Let it do its thing and be as patient as you can. A diatomaceous earth filter (google Vortex XL) is a good tool for folks with soil based substrates to have for things like this. 

Other than that, keep up with your water changes and filter cleaning, and you should be golden.

Cheers,
Phil


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## RevTerry (Mar 27, 2018)

2 different questions.
1 what are some good low light rooted plants
2 are glass catfish safe with amano shrimp?


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

RevTerry said:


> 2 different questions.
> 1 what are some good low light rooted plants
> 2 are glass catfish safe with amano shrimp?


What kind of light are we talking over what size tank?

If the shrimp is too big for the fish's mouth, then yes. If not, no. That's a good general rule regarding any shrimp or fish. Fish will eat anything they can fit in their mouth.


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## RevTerry (Mar 27, 2018)

55 gallon and 110watts lighting


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## rosssurf (Mar 14, 2018)

_


Phil Edwards said:



Could you please share a picture of the fixtures in question? This is the old school curmudgeon in me talking, but a new T8 bulb or bulbs should be able to grow most "new" plants just fine.

Click to expand...

_


Phil Edwards said:


> Here are two T8 lids that came with my aquarium 30 years ago. The "pink" looking one is brand new AQUA GLO 24" and fits the 20gl hood, the greener one is an old bulb that I will be replacing with a GLO LIFE and is 18"
> Here is the AQUA GLO Spectrum picture 3, and LIFE GLO picture 4
> 
> _I haven't used the "light" substrate, but have used the regular Amazonia and would say it's a great choice for a low tech tank. If you have the money, Power Sand Special has worked really well for me in the past coupled with Amazonia. The whole point of this is to give you a nice rich substrate to support the plants without having to deal with all that fancypants high tech stuff.  I would also say that Seachem Equilibrium would be an important additive to supply essential Calcium, Magnesium, Potassium, and Iron. That should work out well with your water.
> ...


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

RevTerry said:


> 55 gallon and 110watts lighting


My guess is that you should be able to grow just about anything in that tank. Some may grow more slowly than others, but even if it's DIY compact fluorescent lighting that still grew a lot for us back when CFL were the height of tech.



Rosssurf,

It looks like you're probably going to be stuck with low light rooters like Crypts; Anubias on the wood, and perhaps Ludwigia repens, Bacopa caroliniana, Bacopa monneri, and Rotala rotundifolia for stems. Saggiteria subdulatus may work as well, but you'll have to keep an eye on it as it grows to make sure it doesn't invade places you don't want it.


Regards,
Phil


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## p3boy (May 21, 2016)

*Substrate, amano shrimp, dhg (belem)*

Hi Phil,
I think I may have unknowingly created problems for myself. Trying to grow DHG (belem) in a granular baked clay substrate (very light weight). Amano shrimp (about 15 in a 25g) are mature and constantly uproot plantings. Many of the roots appear to be stunted as a result of uprooting. Tank is high tech. EI dosing. I need the shrimp to help with algae control. My thought is to switch to a denser substrate (fine gravel such as Caribsea Peace River (1-2mm). After a challenging year trying to grow belem, something has to change.
Your thoughts,
Thanks,
Paul


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

p3boy said:


> Hi Phil,
> I think I may have unknowingly created problems for myself. Trying to grow DHG (belem) in a granular baked clay substrate (very light weight). Amano shrimp (about 15 in a 25g) are mature and constantly uproot plantings. Many of the roots appear to be stunted as a result of uprooting. Tank is high tech. EI dosing. I need the shrimp to help with algae control. My thought is to switch to a denser substrate (fine gravel such as Caribsea Peace River (1-2mm). After a challenging year trying to grow belem, something has to change.
> Your thoughts,
> Thanks,
> Paul


I understand your issue p3boy. I had to give up having certain fish in my tank because they kept uprooting carpet plants I was trying to grow. If your priority is keeping the Amano shrimp for algae control, then you'll need to compromise something to grow the hair grass. It sounds like you already know the answer.  My very very first high tech tank had a mixture of calcined clay similar to what you're using and play sand to give it some density and weight. Just about everything I put in there, including carpeting species, grew just fine, so that may be an option for you too. 

Regards,
Phil


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## luppy (Apr 30, 2018)

Hi Phil,

I'm so happy to have found this thread. I'm a newbie trying to set up my 1st planted tank ever and have been feeling very overwhelmed, confused, frustrated from reading everything about aquarium the past few weeks. I have so many questions and really appreciate your help.

My tank is rimless 22 gallon long (36"x12"x12"), I want to build an iwagumi tank with ada aquasoil (bought 18L), seiryu stone (bought 30lbs), HC, DHG - dry start method. 

Lighting: right now I can't decide which LED light to go with. I'm thinking of Twinstar 900EA (I love its sleek look) or Fluval 3.0 with the possibility of running CO2. 

Filter and in-line heater: I saw some names like eheim 150 or 2215…hydor 200w but I don’t know which one is the best choice, I prefer to have the glassware inside the tank only. Could you please recommend me something not too big, not too expensive, easy to set up and maintenance? I’ve never tried changing a light bulb my entire life so setting up a new tank will be a huge project for me  (my parents would be so proud of me I guess).

Pressurized CO2: again, something not too big and easy to set up please. Should I use paintball ? if yes, will it be economical in the long run?

Thank you very much for your help.


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## kookyxogirl (Nov 13, 2017)

Hi Phil,
Can you put a link for aquatic plants for sale? I can’t seem to find it anywhere. I’m interested in purchasing plants from members or trading.
Thank you got your help. I hope your feeling better, God Bless


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

@kookyxogirl http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/153-sale-trade/


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## Riverkops (May 3, 2018)

Hi Phil, 
Im new here, and I got a quesion about my emersed monte Carlo carpet. Since last week I noticed the plants turning yellow. I have a 10W Led light, and I spray them with fertilised water from my other tank. I can't seem to find the cause to the problem. in advance thanks for your time!


----------



## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

luppy said:


> Hi Phil,
> 
> I'm so happy to have found this thread. I'm a newbie trying to set up my 1st planted tank ever and have been feeling very overwhelmed, confused, frustrated from reading everything about aquarium the past few weeks. I have so many questions and really appreciate your help.


Hey there luppy. I'll do what I can to help you out, but what you're asking is pretty complex.



luppy said:


> My tank is rimless 22 gallon long (36"x12"x12"), I want to build an iwagumi tank with ada aquasoil (bought 18L), seiryu stone (bought 30lbs), HC, DHG - dry start method.


That's not a bad start. If you haven't already bought the plants and/or planted it, my suggestion would be to flood it and run the filter for a month with NO light. Aquasoil releases a lot of Ammonia in the beginning and doing a dark flood will help reduce that. Once that's done then go ahead and drain it, scape and plant it, and go with the dry start.



luppy said:


> Lighting: right now I can't decide which LED light to go with. I'm thinking of Twinstar 900EA (I love its sleek look) or Fluval 3.0 with the possibility of running CO2.


I don't know much about lighting so can't really answer that question. However, I can say with confidence that you'll need the best CO2 system you can get. Having a good CO2 system from the start is more important than having a light with all the bells and whistles; especially on a shallow tank. Invest in the CO2 and you'll mitigate a lot of future issues.



luppy said:


> Filter and in-line heater: I saw some names like eheim 150 or 2215…hydor 200w but I don’t know which one is the best choice, I prefer to have the glassware inside the tank only. Could you please recommend me something not too big, not too expensive, easy to set up and maintenance? I’ve never tried changing a light bulb my entire life so setting up a new tank will be a huge project for me  (my parents would be so proud of me I guess).


You can't go wrong with an Eheim Classic 150. They're still made to the original specifications and will run for many many years if you take care of them. What do you mean by having the glassware inside the tank only?



luppy said:


> Pressurized CO2: again, something not too big and easy to set up please. Should I use paintball ? if yes, will it be economical in the long run?


Paintball systems are certainly an option, but I would honestly recommend a 5 lb pressurized cylinder system. They're more stable and economical over the long run than even really good paintball systems. I'm not sure who the hardware sponsors are here so your best bet is to go to the hardware section and ask around about CO2 regulators. They're much easier to deal with then the look like so don't worry. 



luppy said:


> Thank you very much for your help.


You're quite welcome



Riverkops said:


> Hi Phil,
> Im new here, and I got a quesion about my emersed monte Carlo carpet. Since last week I noticed the plants turning yellow. I have a 10W Led light, and I spray them with fertilised water from my other tank. I can't seem to find the cause to the problem. in advance thanks for your time!


What sort of substrate are you using, how often are you spraying them, and are you removing any accumulating water?


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## rahandhana (May 6, 2018)

Hi phil

Just want to make sure, this is my montecarlo just planted a week ago..i wonder some stem of my monte is go up..not sure if im plant it right..
Should i trim that?
Sorry my bad english..

Thanks


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

rahandhana said:


> Hi phil
> 
> Just want to make sure, this is my montecarlo just planted a week ago..i wonder some stem of my monte is go up..not sure if im plant it right..
> Should i trim that?
> ...


Hello rahandhana, and welcome to TPT! It's ok if some of the stem or some plants grow upward. They'll eventually start growing along the substrate. As a rule, I don't trim carpet plants until they're well established and covering an area at least a six or seven centimeters across. They're usually too delicate early on to deal with being cut much early on. 

Regards,
Phil


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## Beccanne (May 4, 2018)

Not having much luck getting responses on my other thread so I'm asking this here. 

I have a 30gallon that I set up over this past weekend. I'm using Samurai Soil as substrate with aquashrimp powder as a cap. I've placed a piece of wood with some anubias attached, as well as some rotala, ludwigia, crypto, cabomba, vals, and telanthera. I've got a sword, more crypto, and more telanthera coming in the mail. I'm dosing some fertilizer recommended by the LFS (not sure of the brand as I'm not home right now) and also iron to keep those plants with the pink/red coloration from fading. Per the LFS, I'm also adding two capfuls of microbacter each day. 

Q1: About how long can I expect a fishless cycle to take in a 30g tank, considering some of the things I'm also adding? How do you know when the tank is ready for livestock, aside from testing the water and ensuring that parameters are stable? I currently have the tests for pH, ammonia, nirate, and nirite; however, I don't have the means for other testing. 

Q2: In terms of stocking this tank, I'd like to have angelfish as my "centerpiece" so to speak... I know that 30g is still quite small on the spectrum of things, but I have read that with good filtration and heavy planting I can have two angels in a 30g. I'd also like a schooling fish, probably neon tetras or something similar. Other considerations, such as cherry barbs, maybe some corys or loaches. I don't want to overstock the tank, but I'd obviously like to have as much variety as is permissible.


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

Beccanne said:


> Not having much luck getting responses on my other thread so I'm asking this here.
> 
> I have a 30gallon that I set up over this past weekend. I'm using Samurai Soil as substrate with aquashrimp powder as a cap. I've placed a piece of wood with some anubias attached, as well as some rotala, ludwigia, crypto, cabomba, vals, and telanthera. I've got a sword, more crypto, and more telanthera coming in the mail. I'm dosing some fertilizer recommended by the LFS (not sure of the brand as I'm not home right now) and also iron to keep those plants with the pink/red coloration from fading. Per the LFS, I'm also adding two capfuls of microbacter each day.


I'm not specifically familiar with Samurai Soil or Aquashrimp Poweder, but I can make an educated guess as to the properties. I can tell you right now, that without an ammonia or nitrate source the Microbacter isn't going to work. Once you do get ammonia and/or nitrate it'll work really well. Big question; is it Microbacter7 or FlorinBacter? They're two distinct strains of bacteria with the one in MB7 being more suited for removing NO3 and PO4 from salt and FlorinBacter being better at breaking down dissolved organic compounds common in fresh water tanks . (I used to work for Brightwell  ) MB7 will still work for fresh water, so use it if you've got it. Either way, you'll want to add it only until the plants adjust and when you add add fish, then stop after two weeks. If you keep adding it, it's going to consume the fertilizers you're adding for your plants. 



Beccanne said:


> Q1: About how long can I expect a fishless cycle to take in a 30g tank, considering some of the things I'm also adding? How do you know when the tank is ready for livestock, aside from testing the water and ensuring that parameters are stable? I currently have the tests for pH, ammonia, nirate, and nirite; however, I don't have the means for other testing.


Right now you're probably not getting much of a cycle at all. Add a few fish to get it started. It's not uncommon for heavily planted tanks to barely cycle or take a long time to cycle due to the plants taking up Ammonia in the water. 



Beccanne said:


> Q2: In terms of stocking this tank, I'd like to have angelfish as my "centerpiece" so to speak... I know that 30g is still quite small on the spectrum of things, but I have read that with good filtration and heavy planting I can have two angels in a 30g. I'd also like a schooling fish, probably neon tetras or something similar. Other considerations, such as cherry barbs, maybe some corys or loaches. I don't want to overstock the tank, but I'd obviously like to have as much variety as is permissible.


I would strongly advise not keeping angels in this tank. It's small enough that they'll end up eating the other schooling fish and isn't big enough to keep schooling fish big enough to not get eaten. Plus, the dimensions are really bad for them. Something like a large Tetra, such as a Bleeding Heart would be much better. Take care adding bottom feeders. Commercial soil substrates tend to be light enough that loaches and cories can uproot plants relatively easily. It's happened to me.


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## Beccanne (May 4, 2018)

Thanks for the info. It's hard to digest and make sense of the information found online. 

At this point, I've spent about $550 in total including the tank, light, substrate and plants. I'll be pretty bummed if I can't get this thing going... The LFS told me to put some of my shrimp food in there and just let it get gross....but I didn't take that advice because that means a massive cleanup operation for me. I figured with the MB7 I didn't necessarily need to "let it get gross"... 

What should I do to add ammonia and nitrates? I do have a 5 gallon tank with some cherry shrimp and a friend of mine suggested that I toss them into the 30 gallon, but won't they just die? The tank has only been up and running for 3 days. Shall I just go the route of adding a few fish? Would hate to kill the little guys for my personal gain. But I'd also like to make sure I didn't just throw $550 down the drain for nothing. 

Good to know about the uprooting. I considered bamboo shrimp but was told by the LFS that they pretty much just die if they go into a tank that isn't well established. I'm kind of at a loss for stocking options. I thought that with 30g I'd have more options than tetras.


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## XanAndAli (May 5, 2018)

Hi, my first post! I've been lurking and learning a lot. One thing I've had some trouble finding online is if amethyst is suitable or not for a planted tank with fish. A general google search seems very conflicting & this forum seems to be most credible, so hoping to get good info 🙂 Here's a picture of the stone my daughter "mined" from one of those tourist attraction mining places. Thanks!


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## rahandhana (May 6, 2018)

Phil Edwards said:


> Hello rahandhana, and welcome to TPT! It's ok if some of the stem or some plants grow upward. They'll eventually start growing along the substrate. As a rule, I don't trim carpet plants until they're well established and covering an area at least a six or seven centimeters across. They're usually too delicate early on to deal with being cut much early on.
> 
> Regards,
> Phil


Thanks phil..

My tanks is 60x30x30, so far im using 30w LED HPL , and co2 with 1bps..is this enough to grow monte carlo?

Regards


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## swarley (Apr 12, 2018)

sounds like you should be fine with the monte carlo carpet.


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## rahandhana (May 6, 2018)

swarley said:


> sounds like you should be fine with the monte carlo carpet.


thanks swarley,

i thought it will not make montecarlo carpeting, because of low light


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## swarley (Apr 12, 2018)

rahandhana said:


> i thought it will not make montecarlo carpeting, because of low light


Light is pretty much the only concern but 30W LED is fairly strong and should be enough. Monte Carlo isn't as demanding as other carpetting plants.


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## rahandhana (May 6, 2018)

swarley said:


> Light is pretty much the only concern but 30W LED is fairly strong and should be enough. Monte Carlo isn't as demanding as other carpetting plants.


So Phil, What do you think ?


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## luppy (Apr 30, 2018)

Phil Edwards said:


> Hey there luppy. I'll do what I can to help you out, but what you're asking is pretty complex.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Phil, thank you so much for taking your time to reply my complex questions. I havent started yet, still trying to figure out which filter, heater and CO2 system to get ( I'll definitely try to get a better CO2 system as your advice). So flooding the aquasoil before DSM requires the filter running? I don't have a filter yet so I can't start it I guess. 

Having the glassware inside the tank only, I mean I don't want to put anything ugly inside the tank, I would prefer having lily pipes, Co2 difuser only. I have a very stupid question that I need your answer- about wiring and putting things together: 
1. Led light + dimmer + timer
2. Filter + In line heater + lily pipes
3. CO2 regulator + CO2 tank + diffuser + timer
I wonder if those are correct, I'm trying to find the easiest way to set up the tank since I'm so dumb in this. And I'm also not sure if I would need to get anything else.


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

XanAndAli said:


> Hi, my first post! I've been lurking and learning a lot. One thing I've had some trouble finding online is if amethyst is suitable or not for a planted tank with fish. A general google search seems very conflicting & this forum seems to be most credible, so hoping to get good info 🙂 Here's a picture of the stone my daughter "mined" from one of those tourist attraction mining places. Thanks!


I'd give it a good scrub and rinse with no soap, but it should be fine. There's nothing toxic in Amethyst so just make sure it's nice and clean and you should be ok.



rahandhana said:


> So Phil, What do you think ?


You should be ok with that. I've grown Monte Carlo under fairly low light as things go these days and it did really well. I would increase your CO2 to 2-3 bubbles per second with that amount of light though. If you've got animals in the tank, keep an eye on them to make sure you're not putting too much gas in the tank, but 3 bubbles shouldn't be an issue for that size tank.


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## XanAndAli (May 5, 2018)

Thanks so much!


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## ausram (Jan 23, 2017)

Hi Phil! I just picked up a 60 gallon truvu aio. I need to get a pump for the built in filter but I don't know what size I should get. Any recommendations?


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## Mike! (Mar 26, 2018)

Beccanne said:


> Good to know about the uprooting. I considered bamboo shrimp but was told by the LFS that they pretty much just die if they go into a tank that isn't well established. I'm kind of at a loss for stocking options. I thought that with 30g I'd have more options than tetras.


Cycling: if you really want cherry barbs, pick up 3 females and a male. They are basically indestructible. I cycled my 55 with them 4 years ago and they have since weathered a few eras or neglect.

Centerpiece fish: have you looked at apistogrammas? Not every LFS has a constant supply of them, but if you ask for a pair of cacatouides or borellis now, you should probably be able to get them in and through quarantine before you cycle. Apistos have all the benefits of cichlids (beauty and personality), but are smaller and gentler than angels. They love the bottom of the tank, so opt for cardinals over neons, if you go that way.


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

ausram said:


> Hi Phil! I just picked up a 60 gallon truvu aio. I need to get a pump for the built in filter but I don't know what size I should get. Any recommendations?


I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with the specifications for that system and can't give good advice as to what sort of hardware it needs. 

Regards,
Phil


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## XanAndAli (May 5, 2018)

I just discovered that my plants are to arrive today but the tank isn't here until tmrw. I didn't expect the fast delivery! What's the best way to store them until it arrives? Just in a pitcher of water? My other tank is small but I could put them in there and let my guppies be cramped for a day. Thoughts?


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## sdwindansea (Oct 28, 2016)

XanAndAli said:


> I just discovered that my plants are to arrive today but the tank isn't here until tmrw. I didn't expect the fast delivery! What's the best way to store them until it arrives? Just in a pitcher of water? My other tank is small but I could put them in there and let my guppies be cramped for a day. Thoughts?


Assuming the plants have not been in transit for too long you can simply leave them in their storage bags.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

sdwindansea said:


> Assuming the plants have not been in transit for too long you can simply leave them in their storage bags.


Good to see Phil finally got an assistant! >

Maybe a few more of us should sign up to be the "on call" plantologist for days when Phil is out????:wink2::wink2:


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## sdwindansea (Oct 28, 2016)

@Greggz, that was just an accidental post . Besides, I need way more help than I can actually provide.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

sdwindansea said:


> Besides, I need way more help than I can actually provide.


I would believe you if I hadn't seen pics of your tank. You have plenty to offer.

Speaking of your tank, I'm sure the reboot pictures should be just around the corner.......looking forward to it.


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## rahandhana (May 6, 2018)

Hi phil, 

Today 2 of 4 my SAE jump out of my tank, any idea why they do that?


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## blackflames123 (Nov 4, 2017)

Do you know the best way to get rid of extra endlers/guppies if you have a small tank?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

XanAndAli said:


> I just discovered that my plants are to arrive today but the tank isn't here until tmrw. I didn't expect the fast delivery! What's the best way to store them until it arrives? Just in a pitcher of water? My other tank is small but I could put them in there and let my guppies be cramped for a day. Thoughts?


XanAndAli, sdwindandsea made a good point- as long as you know when they were shipped and how long they've been in the container. Assuming they're in individual seal bags, you can put them on a windowsill or any other lit place. 



rahandhana said:


> Hi phil,
> 
> Today 2 of 4 my SAE jump out of my tank, any idea why they do that?


Fish can jump for a number of reasons. Active fish like SAEs may start swimming fast, sense the glass is near, and go up/jump to avoid the obstruction. Other times jumping is a fear response. I'm sure there are many other reasons, but those are the two I can think of off the top of my head.



blackflames123 said:


> Do you know the best way to get rid of extra endlers/guppies if you have a small tank?


Bleach. 


I've made the mistake of having livebearers in a planted tank before and ended up having to tear the whole thing apart to get rid of them. Granted, that's a pretty extreme measure, but it works. Other methods are: doing a major trim and catching as many as you can while there's not much hiding space; trying to catch as many as you can every day until they're gone; and bleach. 

Livebearers can be beautiful fish in a planted tank. If you want to keep them, make sure you get all males next time. They're anatomically correct and have a gonopodium/penis instead of the triangular anal fin that females have.

Bump:


Greggz said:


> Good to see Phil finally got an assistant! >
> 
> Maybe a few more of us should sign up to be the "on call" plantologist for days when Phil is out????:wink2::wink2:


Hey, it was only overnight. Even I need to sleep sometimes.


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

@XanAndAli,

How'd the plants do?


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## XanAndAli (May 5, 2018)

They are great! I just got more too, from Aquarium Coop  both times they arrived in 2 days even though we are not close geographically, so I am pretty impressed.


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## Rem-airem (Apr 18, 2018)

I have another one for you. 

I recently reworked my planted 75. I removed a LOT of dirt and recapped with new sand. This new setup looks much much better. I have done a couple of water changes since I installed the new cap, though after even just a day I see a yellow green murkiness to my water. I did over fertilize the water as I had the plants out of the tank for a couple of hours. I also cleaned out my canister filter, replacing all filtration medium ( no fish yet ). I was not able to clean the hoses I will just have to deal with the residue. I did not clean the sand prior to install. Black sand, specifically for aquariums. not dyed. 

I guess I'm just now trying to figure out what is now making the water more murky, the last water change I did was maybe 80% and again twice since the new substrate. I will continue to do water changes to see if that eventually helps clear the water. I do have two medium sized mopani pieces that in hindsight maybe releasing some residue themselves.

some backstory. I did not realize that too much dirt will create massive gas pockets and I used extra dirt to create small hills. I found massive pockets that were causing eruptions of organic soil on the top of my substrate. I, as above, removed a lot of the dirt and leveled out my substrate. I retained a bunch of lava rocks and two pieces of wood, previously mentioned. 

My thoughts are: 1. too much fert ( liquid ) easy-green and sea-chem iron. ( iron recommended dose ).
2. sand
3. unknown. Residue off of rocks/wood/plants?


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## wlaws (Apr 18, 2018)

*Cleaning*

I am new to this and I have add some success and have not been successful. so this whole thing is about trail and error. I have a 55 gal aquarium that was full of brown algae. It was a fight to the end, I took everything out of the tank cleaned it, cleaned plants and replanted in another tank. Now I have the tank left, I reading about filling the tank with water and pouring a cup of bleach to kill remaining algae. Using a spray bottle with water and bleach and spray let it sit for a few hours then hose out. Hydrogen proxide with lemon spray in and hose out. what are my options with sterizing my tank to prevent from happening again....


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## wlaws (Apr 18, 2018)

I am new to this and I have add some success and have not been successful. so this whole thing is about trail and error. I have a 55 gal aquarium that was full of brown algae. It was a fight to the end, I took everything out of the tank cleaned it, cleaned plants and replanted in another tank. Now I have the tank left, I reading about filling the tank with water and pouring a cup of bleach to kill remaining algae. Using a spray bottle with water and bleach and spray let it sit for a few hours then hose out. Hydrogen proxide with lemon spray in and hose out. what are my options with sterizing my tank to prevent from happening again....


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## GaryH (Jan 8, 2018)

My bottle of prime smells bad of sulpher. Has it gone bad?


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

GaryH said:


> My bottle of prime smells bad of sulpher. Has it gone bad?


100% normal. Smells like egg farts but that's just how it is.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

varanidguy said:


> 100% normal. Smells like egg farts but that's just how it is.


You made me laugh out loud literally with this one, but you are also spot on! Ha!


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## GaryH (Jan 8, 2018)

And here I thought it was the fish that stank!


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## Jadonis (Jun 1, 2018)

I can't find Miracle Grow Organic Choice Potting Mix anywhere. I live in Jacksonville, Fl. Is there any reason why I can't find it? Has it recently gone through a packaging change? I have looked at Lowes, The Home Depot and my local Ace Hardware. I don't know where else to look and I don't know what other soil mix is safe. A guy at the local Ace Hardware convinced me to buy compost. Saying that there wasn't any manure, or moisture lock in it. Is this a safe option?


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## Painting.Laural (Jun 2, 2018)

Should I siphon my betta's gravel in his 2.5 gallon tank? If so, how often? (yes it's 2.5 gallons. It was originally just a quarantine, but he was happy enough in it that he made a bubble nest)
When I siphon the gravel in my 10 gallon tank (the fish inside are being treated for ich right now), should I remove them beforehand? Most of the fish are corydoras.
What do I do with the ich infested water after a water change?!? I feel like it's not a great idea to just dump it down the drain...


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## GaryH (Jan 8, 2018)

varanidguy said:


> 100% normal. Smells like egg farts but that's just how it is.





Jadonis said:


> I can't find Miracle Grow Organic Choice Potting Mix anywhere. I live in Jacksonville, Fl. Is there any reason why I can't find it? Has it recently gone through a packaging change? I have looked at Lowes, The Home Depot and my local Ace Hardware. I don't know where else to look and I don't know what other soil mix is safe. A guy at the local Ace Hardware convinced me to buy compost. Saying that there wasn't any manure, or moisture lock in it. Is this a safe option?


I got a bag last year and it was full of pearlite. The best I found was the cheapest that Home Depot carried just dirt with a bit of manure. I let it soak for a month and it was fine.


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## jostafew (Jun 4, 2018)

@Phil, firstly let me say thank you for making your time and your advice available, very generous.

First some quick background about my case: 
I'm taking a break from reefing and will be making a more serious go of a FW planted tank for a change of pace. I plan to be fairly high-tech, with CO2 injection, decent T5 lighting, running my (reef) controller to handle temp and PH monitoring, automated dosing of ferts etc. I have all the gear already so why not put it to use?! 

On to my question: 
In the reefing world I had my suite of Salifert test kits and Hanna ULR colorimeter for P, and in that world API stuff just wasn't up to par. But Google has yet to point me to the preferred test kits for monitoring the following values in FW:

NO3
PO4
K
Ca
Mg
S (maybe)
Fe
and I'll keep an eye on PH via probe running on my controller and periodic checks with a test kit.

Can you point me to the preferred testing methods for those? Are the API kits more respected in the FW world, and if not who's products should I be looking at? Are there reagent variants or color cards for Salifert kits that allow them to work accurately with FW?

Thanks in advance!


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## Mike Hansbrough (Sep 1, 2018)

Hey, thank you for offering your help. I have a newly set up 20 gallon long. I cycled it with our older small tank by connecting them together. We chose a large piece of Manzanita Driftwood that really looks cool in the tank, however we have a lot of algae in the new tank. I planted two bunches of anacharis because they were cheap until I could get the plants that we ordered.
Long story short, the plant guy did not come through with our plants and so I need to find a new source. 
If I purchased one low growing plant, what would be the best choice that would grow quickly and would out compete the algae ?


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## annabel1066 (Sep 11, 2013)

Phil Edwards said:


> The answer is a resounding yes. You should shim and reinforce it as much as possible. A stand should be absolutely level in both the side to side and front to back axes. Doing anything else risks bursting a seal and potentially shattering a pane.


Hi Phil,

I'm not new to fishkeeping, but I'm fairly new to to planted tanks and a true newbie to many aspects of planted tanks. Having fallen victim to MTS, I now have 5 tanks to maintain, but I just snagged a used 180g tank and stand, and it's a monster in terms of size (6x2x2) and weight (~2500 lbs. with water, substrate, rocks) compared to anything I've owned before (largest was 56gh), and I plan to consolidate, automate, and conquer my struggle to maintain well-kept tanks. Whether this is a pipe dream remains to be seen, haha.

I'm reinforcing my floor to support the weight, but if leveling is necessary, I'm concerned about the effect of shimming on weight distribution. Any ideas of how to go about it on a larger scale?

I'm going to start a tank journal soon (appreciate your suggestions :smile2, and thanks in advance for the help!


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

annabel1066 said:


> Hi Phil,
> 
> I'm not new to fishkeeping, but I'm fairly new to to planted tanks and a true newbie to many aspects of planted tanks. Having fallen victim to MTS, I now have 5 tanks to maintain, but I just snagged a used 180g tank and stand, and it's a monster in terms of size (6x2x2) and weight (~2500 lbs. with water, substrate, rocks) compared to anything I've owned before (largest was 56gh), and I plan to consolidate, automate, and conquer my struggle to maintain well-kept tanks. Whether this is a pipe dream remains to be seen, haha.
> 
> ...


Hey there Annabel,

Sorry for the very late response. If you haven't already set your tank up, I'd recommend using plastic shims available at most hardware or home improvement stores. You're talking a lot of weight and pressure to be putting on a small area, so use something as sturdy as possible to keep it from getting compressed over time. If you're able to, the best option are variable height casters that screw into the wood itself and can be lengthened/shortened as needed.

If you're ever in the Charlotte/Rock Hill area let me know!


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## bettang (Oct 30, 2017)

Hi, I was wondering what procedures you would recommend for planting an aquarium already with a bunch of algae. I know what plants I want to get and my fertilization but I was wondering what I should do to get the algae to die off and not infest any of the plants.


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

bettang said:


> Hi, I was wondering what procedures you would recommend for planting an aquarium already with a bunch of algae. I know what plants I want to get and my fertilization but I was wondering what I should do to get the algae to die off and not infest any of the plants.


You should absolutely get rid of as much algae as possible before planting. Could you please tell me more about the system; lights and how long they're on each day, filtration, substrate, fish, etc and put up a picture please?


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## bettang (Oct 30, 2017)

Phil Edwards said:


> You should absolutely get rid of as much algae as possible before planting. Could you please tell me more about the system; lights and how long they're on each day, filtration, substrate, fish, etc and put up a picture please?



Tank: 20 gallon, 15 In. deep, 24 In. long



Lights: Beamswork DA FSPEC; I would say they are low light to medium. On for three hours daily as of now


Filtration: An Aquaclear 20 with an intake filter 



Substrate: 2-3 In. of gravel


Fish: 2 platies and 6 neons


Fertilization: There are no plants in there so I do not dose anything at all. I do have some osmocote root tabs and Nicolg thrive all in one liquid fertilizer I do not use.


Some pictures I took today:


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

That's an easy fix! First off, turn the lights down until you get your plants. Fish don't really need them, so as long as their on long enough and bright enough for you to see the fish when you're home you're good. Next, make sure the water level stays up near the rim; anywhere high enough that the black trim will hide the water line is ok. Then it's just a matter of keeping the glass clean and doing regular water 30-50% changes, making sure to clean the filter and gravel out well to remove as much organic debris as you can. Maintaining good husbandry and tank maintenance practices will go a long way toward managing algae issues.

If it's going to be a while before you're able to get the tank fully planted, putting a single banana plant in there will help a lot as well. They're little Lily plants and are perfect for tanks just like this.


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

Do you have any advice on getting rid of green dust/film algae that has managed to attach itself to plants? It doesn’t wipe off the plants nearly as easily as the glass.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Dear Phil,

How do I get my plants to look as good Burrs??:grin2:

Anxiously waiting your response!


And good to see you back on the board.:wink2:


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

Greggz said:


> Dear Phil,
> 
> How do I get my plants to look as good Burrs??:grin2:
> 
> ...



Find the picture you want, right click and select "save image". Go to Kinko's and get it printed out in the proper dimensions then glue it to the front of your tank.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Warning:
We will begin discussing several ammannia species tomorrow.
Starting with Nesaea crassicaulis. >


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Warning:
> We will begin discussing several ammannia species tomorrow.
> Starting with Nesaea crassicaulis. >


This is a beginner's help thread, you ninny. Take that fancy plant talk elsewhere!


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

I'll take that as a compliment! :|

You've got to admit, Gregg was good, it might as well started off as "Dear Abby" :grin2:


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

varanidguy said:


> Do you have any advice on getting rid of green dust/film algae that has managed to attach itself to plants? It doesn’t wipe off the plants nearly as easily as the glass.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


GDA...hmmm. Would you please tell me more about your tank? What're the lights, filter, CO2, ferts, etc? How often do you clean the tank vs. only removing/exchanging water? Pictures would be helpful as well.

Regards,
Phil


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## Junebuggg91 (May 11, 2019)

Hi Phil,
I have a 10 gallon tank that I have recently planted with various plants (dwarf sag, java moss, dwarf aquarium lily, crypt. wendetii brown, crypt. lucern, and red root floaters). I also have two huge pieces of driftwood in the tank as well. Lighting wise, I have a Nicrew ClassicLED 18-24" which I have on a timer to be on for 8 hours a day. I do a 50% weekly water change and test my parameters every other day. Once a week I also dose with EasyGreen. I'm noticing some possible algae or it may just be melted plant matter around the base of the plants. I just wanted to know if this was normal/to be expected this shortly after adding plants to the tank. 
Thanks,
Jess


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

Junebuggg91 said:


> Hi Phil,
> I have a 10 gallon tank that I have recently planted with various plants (dwarf sag, java moss, dwarf aquarium lily, crypt. wendetii brown, crypt. lucern, and red root floaters). I also have two huge pieces of driftwood in the tank as well. Lighting wise, I have a Nicrew ClassicLED 18-24" which I have on a timer to be on for 8 hours a day. I do a 50% weekly water change and test my parameters every other day. Once a week I also dose with EasyGreen. I'm noticing some possible algae or it may just be melted plant matter around the base of the plants. I just wanted to know if this was normal/to be expected this shortly after adding plants to the tank.
> Thanks,
> Jess


Hello Junebuggg,

Yes, it's very common to see melting leaves on new plants; especically with Cryptocoryne. A large amount of aquarium plants are actually grown hydroponically and haven't been fully submerged yet. Losing leaves is part of adapting to living underwater for a lot of plants, so I wouldn't be too concerned about it yet. If you can post a picture of what you're talking about I'll be happy to take a look and see what's going on.


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

Phil Edwards said:


> GDA...hmmm. Would you please tell me more about your tank? What're the lights, filter, CO2, ferts, etc? How often do you clean the tank vs. only removing/exchanging water? Pictures would be helpful as well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




The tank is a 40 breeder. The light in the rear is a Fluval 3.0 and the foreground is covered by a Finnex Fugeray Planted+. At the substrate I measured the Fluval @ 114 PAR and the Finnex @ 65-70 PAR. The rear was covered by a Finnex 24/7 CC but that’s when the algae was at its worst. The reason why I increased the lighting is because I noticed there was significantly less algae on plants that were closer to the light getting blasted with PAR, and my pogostemon yatabeanus was shedding leaves like crazy. Since increasing the light intensity, the pogostemon has quit shedding its leaves.

I also increased micros and that seems to have helped, in conjunction with the higher light, new growth isn’t getting much or any algae at all. 

Photoperiod is 8 hours and, according to online calculators, co2 should be roughly 35-40 ppm when lights come on.

I perform a weekly 50% water change, removing any organic waste I can. Any leaves that have fallen off, leaves that don’t look like they’re doing well, getting as much detritus out of the java fern as I can. Filter is cleaned about once a month, SunSun 303b. 

It seems like I’ve figured out how to keep new algae from growing on new growth, but if there was a way to eradicate the stuff that’s existing on the plants rather than thinning everything out, that would be awesome. Ironically it barely even grows on the glass now, only a very slight haze that I wipe off on water change day.

Here are some pictures.

You can see it pretty good on the java fern to the left.









And here pretty good on the bacopa.









Here’s what new growth is coming in like, alternanthera reineckii lilacina, pogostemon yatabeanus, and crypt undulata red in the shot.









Here’s an overall tank shot, in the front I’m trying to grow out some pogostemon helferi and a crypt flamingo, they’re brand new and not in the best shape yet.









Macros are front loaded on water change day and micros are doses 3 times a week.

CSM+B is dosed to 0.2 ppm Fe and DTPA to 0.1 ppm Fe because my pH without co2 is 7.4 and dKH 5.

On water change day my nitrate is about 30-40 ppm (API kit is hard to distinguish) and phosphates about 2-3 ppm (darker than 2 but not quite as dark as 3).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

It looks to me like you've got things pretty much dialed in. Since the algae are on old leaves your best bets are to either a) remove all of the affected leaves and wait until it's time to trim or b) wait until it's time to trim and then replant the clean segments. Either way, the best thing you can do it maintain the regimen you have right now until the stems have grown a few more inches then trim and plant the clean stuff. Removing the algae covered leaves beforehand is up to you.


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

Phil Edwards said:


> It looks to me like you've got things pretty much dialed in. Since the algae are on old leaves your best bets are to either a) remove all of the affected leaves and wait until it's time to trim or b) wait until it's time to trim and then replant the clean segments. Either way, the best thing you can do it maintain the regimen you have right now until the stems have grown a few more inches then trim and plant the clean stuff. Removing the algae covered leaves beforehand is up to you.




Yeah that’s what I was thinking but maybe there was some hack lol.

The hardest part is thinning out the windelov java fern, it’s gotten so bushy it’s a challenge to prune down to the rhizome, and it took a long time for it to get to that point. Ah well, such is life.

Thanks for the reply!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

varanidguy said:


> Yeah that’s what I was thinking but maybe there was some hack lol.


There is, it's hacking your plants down and using only the fresh and clean material.  Sometimes algae will go away once the tank's environment improves, but most of the time trimming and/or removal is the best and quickest method. Unfortunately there aren't any real workarounds when it comes to things like this. Good husbandry practices are fundamental to making the solid foundation that tweakable things like light, CO2, and nutrition are built on. 



varanidguy said:


> The hardest part is thinning out the windelov java fern, it’s gotten so bushy it’s a challenge to prune down to the rhizome, and it took a long time for it to get to that point. Ah well, such is life.
> 
> Thanks for the reply!


I hear ya, thinning ferns is sometimes detailed and time consuming work. If you want to clean it down to the rhizome, get some sturdy scissors and hack off all the fronds. Sometimes a good trim and thinning out the rhizome is needed and helps the plant out a lot. Yours is looking pretty thick, why don't you give it a go? An friend of mine used to say years ago that "Plants like scissors.". It's true. Thinning and trimming helps to improve circulation and can stimulate new and healthy regrowth. It also gives you the chance to clean up an area you may not have been able to get to easily before.

Regards,
Phil


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

Phil Edwards said:


> There is, it's hacking your plants down and using only the fresh and clean material.  Sometimes algae will go away once the tank's environment improves, but most of the time trimming and/or removal is the best and quickest method. Unfortunately there aren't any real workarounds when it comes to things like this. Good husbandry practices are fundamental to making the solid foundation that tweakable things like light, CO2, and nutrition are built on.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I can definitely attest to the cleaning part. Once a portion was thinned out a bit, I was able to get to some detritus that I didn't even know was there. During weekly water changes, I blast the rhizome area with a turkey baster to get as much out as I can, but when the rhizomes have grown into a mat, there's only so much that method can get out. Every week I've been thinning them out as much as I have patience for, but it gets to the point where you're just "done" when you have kids and a wife needing attention also. lol (In reality, the wife isn't bad at all, she understands and lets me work on the tank as much as I want, but the kids, especially the 2 year old, start getting really curious and want to be right in the way to get the best view).


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## SingAlongWithTsing (Jun 11, 2015)

Hi Phil, need your expertise on some substrate decisions. Currently my tank is running 100% BDBS but I plan on switching over to a STS/Potting Mix/Sand Cap combo. [Journal Here]

I was wondering if you were to use this combo what would you do?
a) Layer the potting mix and STS

or

b) mix the potting mix and STS

if a), what would order would you choose to layers and do you think having mesh between layers would be a good idea? (to prevent any soil or sts from surfacing)

any other tips / warnings is also greatly appreciated


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

SingAlongWithTsing said:


> Hi Phil, need your expertise on some substrate decisions. Currently my tank is running 100% BDBS but I plan on switching over to a STS/Potting Mix/Sand Cap combo. [Journal Here]
> 
> I was wondering if you were to use this combo what would you do?
> a) Layer the potting mix and STS
> ...


Heya Tsing,

I'd go with 70/30 soil/STS by volume. Mixing the STS in with the soil will help keep it from getting thick/dense and will help root penetration. 

<additional contextual information> The thicker and more dense rich soils are the faster they become anaerobic and more strongly reducing they get. Some anaerobiosis is good as it helps mobilize some elements that are locked in otherwise inaccessible forms, but too much is harmful. Since roots are aerobic structures, the less strongly anaerobic/reducing the environment around them is the healthier they are and the less energy the plant needs to spend repairing/maintaining them. Iron is a good example of this. The normal +3 form found in soils is oxidized and insoluble. In reducing environments (aquatic and wetland soils, for example) it gets used as an electron acceptor in lieu of oxygen and is changed to +2, which is soluble and diffuses through the substrate. When it reaches the oxic zones around roots it changes back to +3 (insoluble) and can form a sheath around the roots. This is beneficial in that it helps protect them against toxic sulfides and methane, but it also inhibits P uptake by binding it where the roots can't get to it. In addition, the more easily oxygen can diffuse into the substrate the larger the oxic zone around the roots can be which creates an even larger barrier against harmful reduced compounds. I saw this countless times as a field scientist working with wetland soils, in research, and in my own aquariums with deep soil or substrates such as Amazonia. This is the big reason for using things like Power Sand (pumice) and lava rock under thick soil or soil-based substrates.</addition> 

The STS itself will provide a good site for tiny roots to attach to as well. Make sure to get the mixture wet to the point where it's nice and cohesive; think cake icing. Put down at most 2 inches of the mixture then let it sit overnight to get a semi-dry skin before capping off with at least an inch of sand. The skin will help keep the sand from initially mixing with the soil and will help make setup a bit cleaner. If you have plans to use a thicker soil layer use a 50/50 or even 25/75 soil/STS mix as the base before adding the more soil-heavy mix on top.

If you want to get fancy-pants, make a dilute fertilizer solution (1/8 EI or 1/2 Thrive, etc) to add while wetting the soil mix. If you do this, make sure to run the tank for a week with the lights off to let things release before doing a big water change and planting. Adding things like root tabs or Osmocote to the soil mix will require a longer maturation period of at least two weeks. While lots of folks have had success with planting soil substrated tanks right off the bat, I prefer to let it sit as I lost an entire cohort of Vallisneria at the start of my study due to too-rich/immature substrate mixes.

Hope this helps. If you've got more questions I'll be here.


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## Maybe Plants? (Jun 22, 2019)

Hello Phil,

I write to you with assistance requests on a couple topics. I have never had planted tank before. I have been doing a lot of reading and am finding everything very fascinating. Some of my equipment. I have a apex ph controller, and c02 regulator. I have 4 large LED panels accompanied with 2 4x54w t5 units. I just received some topic bulbs for the t5s. I have not checked par yet. I just added soil and did a large water change. My inhabitants at the moment are my Jardini and spanky (my bichir). I would like to have live breeder fish in the tank or sump below to raise for them both. I have purchased quite a few "easy" plants to start with. 

My questions; 

1. If I have used the seachem flourite clay and sand as substrate, what elements such as ie. iron should I be testing for on a regular basis? 
2. My Ph sits at 7.7-7.9 usually. I have not ran the c02 yet all day with lights to see how it works as I have no plants in the tank yet. What #'s PH should I be shooting for? I have purchased some peat to try to lower the pH a little bit. I would like to be around 6.8-7 as I have read? I have seen the c02 chart contrasting PH/GH.
3. I have RO units and everything for them already. Should I use tap for top off or RO. I have been told to use tap .
4. I wish to have a no water change system, self sustaining with live breeders as much as possible. Is this possible?


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

SingAlongWithTsing said:


> Hi Phil, need your expertise on some substrate decisions. Currently my tank is running 100% BDBS but I plan on switching over to a STS/Potting Mix/Sand Cap combo.


Oh my I got the popcorn popping and am anxiously awaiting the next update!:grin2:

This should be good!


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

Maybe Plants? said:


> Hello Phil,
> 
> I write to you with assistance requests on a couple topics. I have never had planted tank before. I have been doing a lot of reading and am finding everything very fascinating. Some of my equipment. I have a apex ph controller, and c02 regulator. I have 4 large LED panels accompanied with 2 4x54w t5 units. I just received some topic bulbs for the t5s. I have not checked par yet. I just added soil and did a large water change. My inhabitants at the moment are my Jardini and spanky (my bichir). I would like to have live breeder fish in the tank or sump below to raise for them both. I have purchased quite a few "easy" plants to start with.
> 
> ...


Hey, I just met you and call me crazy, but can I call you Maybe?

Joking aside and serious face time. In order to help you the most I'm going to be completely frank, please don't take it as being snarky or rude, I just want to be as clear and direct as possible. From what little info you've given it looks like you have a time bomb on your hands if you're not very careful and/or make changes soon. First things first, _until we get you situated, only use enough light to see the fish and only then when you're there to see them_. I'm working on incomplete information here, but it sounds like you've got waaaay too much light and a heavy nutrient load with the predatory fish and added soil. 

I'm assuming you're talking about an Arrowana when you say Jardini. Is this correct? Going on the assumption that you're keeping an Arrowana and Bichir in your tank you're going to want to *focus on the fish and go with what I call a Fish Tank With Plants rather than a Planted Tank With Fish*. It may seem like semantics, but it's an important distinction; especially as someone who's new to keeping more than just one or two plants here and there. What we need to do is focus on making a good habitat for the fish first, then work on keeping plants that suit that environment. You've said that you've already bought "easy plants"; what are they? This is important info that will inform advice going forward.

I need some more information to go forward with:

1. _How big is the tank and what are the dimensions?_

2. _If arranged together as a whole, do all of the lights cover the whole tank or do you have to stagger them to get full coverage?_ For example, I have a 48"x24" tank and have a T5 fixture that's 48x24, so all of the bulbs cover the whole tank as a single unit. If I have all of the bulbs on at once the fixture produces enough light to make the system incredibly unstable and one mistake away from crashing. This is something you absolutely need to avoid for reasons I'll go into later.

Pictures of the tank and lights will be very helpful with this.

3. _How're you filtering the system? _ Again, pictures are helpful.

4. _What do you mean, specifically, when you said you added soil?_

Answers to your questions:
1. Flourite is, for all intents and purposes, inert. It's a mined material that may have at one time been clay but is now rock. Some of the minerals it contains may release in minute amounts, but not nearly enough to be considered, let alone tested for. That being said, I've used the original version in the past and think it's an excellent option if you wish to use it. Silica sand (pool filter and play sand) is completely inert and won't impact water quality.

2. Adding CO2 will reduce pH, so unless you specifically need to stay in a specific pH range don't add anything which will alter it. There are different philosophies and best practices regarding using CO2 in the hobby, but 99% of what you'll find here relates specifically to keeping systems that are heavily planted with plants which require high(er) CO2 inputs, not the type of tank we should be building for you. What you and I need to *eventually* focus on is figuring out what the appropriate amount of CO2 your system is going to need as it's not the same type of ecosystem as a heavily planted display. Having a good system to control CO2 injection will be very helpful and you've got that covered with the Apex. 

Normally I'd say disregard the pH/KH/CO2 chart, but we're going to be well served by going back to basics with your system and that chart may have some use in this application. We'll look at that more in the future.

3. Using RO has many advantages so if you've got the system, by all means, use it.

4. No water change systems are BAD. DO YOUR WATER CHANGES. *Proper husbandry practices are essential, no matter what sort of aquarium you're keeping and water changes are the fundamental basis of that*. 


Back to lighting. Light is the driver of your tank's metabolism. The more light input there is the faster photosynthetic organisms (plants and algae) are going to want to grow. Higher light equals higher inherent instability and higher time investment in the way of maintenance and miscellaneous upkeep. Large predatory fish put off a lot of waste which adds high amounts of compounds algae can use efficiently. The more light a tank like yours gets the faster algae will become an issue if you don't spend the time to keep on top of it. The addition of a nutrient rich substrate such as soil only compounds that. 

That's probably enough for now. I think we've come to the point where it would be more appropriate for you to start a thread over in the Tank Journal section so we can have a more focused discussion of your tank going forward. 

Regards,
Phil 






Greggz said:


> Oh my I got the popcorn popping and am anxiously awaiting the next update!:grin2:
> 
> This should be good!


As long as there's butter. Popcorn is only a vector for butter.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Maybe Plants? said:


> My inhabitants at the moment are my *Jardini* and spanky (my *bichir*).
> I would like to have *live breeder fish* in the tank or *sump* below to raise for them both.
> I wish to have a *no water change system*, *self sustaining* with live breeders as much as possible.
> Is this possible?


Not to intrude here.:wink2:
How big is this tank & sump?>
Enough butter can be a vehicle for the popcorn!:grin2:


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## Maybe Plants? (Jun 22, 2019)

Hello crazy,

No time bomb is ticking at the moment. I have not turned on any lights or started any c02. I have a couple years experience in this water world we enjoy. I do not rush anything. At this time I have my Jardini in the tank (yes arowana) and just leds on low. My tank is 8x3x28 high. 420g. With a 100g sump below. I have in the tank 6 swords and a couple ferns, as well as about 6 nana i've had neglected in my sump for 6 months without barely any care that look great (haha maybe?). At the moment I have mesh blocks running behind my overfloads and then into 4 filter socks. I also have a small carbon reactor going at the moment. I think I need more red in my spectrum looking at some charts. Should I find a t5 with a mostly 600+ since I have the tropics and blues from my leds ? I also have water tanks and an automatic water change system available if if needed.


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

Maybe Plants? said:


> Hello crazy,
> 
> No time bomb is ticking at the moment. I have not turned on any lights or started any c02. I have a couple years experience in this water world we enjoy. I do not rush anything. At this time I have my Jardini in the tank (yes arowana) and just leds on low. My tank is 8x3x28 high. 420g. With a 100g sump below. I have in the tank 6 swords and a couple ferns, as well as about 6 nana i've had neglected in my sump for 6 months without barely any care that look great (haha maybe?). At the moment I have mesh blocks running behind my overfloads and then into 4 filter socks. I also have a small carbon reactor going at the moment. I think I need more red in my spectrum looking at some charts. Should I find a t5 with a mostly 600+ since I have the tropics and blues from my leds ? I also have water tanks and an automatic water change system available if if needed.


Are you happy with the tank as it is? If so, we can probably just work on getting CO2 up and running. That alone will significantly benefit the plants. Keep in mind that a 520 gallon total volume system is going to require A LOT. A WHOLE LOT. A REALLY HUGE AMOUNT LOT of CO2. If I were going to try carbonating a system that big with a sump I'd be looking into investing in one of the canisters restaurants use for soda machines. No joke. I don't know what the next size down would be, 100lbs? A 20lb can lasts me about 5 months on a 90 gallon total volume system that's pretty gas efficient. You'll be looking at at least 20lbs a month, easy. 

If you're looking for something a bit more then it'll take a bit more thought. Right now, forget all the charts and numbers and such that people are "suppose to have to ensure success". Your tank is a unique system and needs to be treated as such. If you want more red because you think it looks better, then go ahead. Otherwise, don't worry about it at this stage. 

I respect that you have experience with fish keeping and it will serve you well going forward. However, it's important to keep in mind that a great deal of this side of the hobby is significantly different than standard fish/aquarium keeping when you start focusing on keeping plants vs. focusing on fish. The plants you mentioned will do just fine with modest light, CO2 addition, and possibly some traces under modest light conditions given the high NO3 and PO4 typical of predator tanks. Given everything you've said about your system I firmly believe that your best chance for success is to stick with the hardy and "easy" plants that don't require a lot of light as that will make things a lot easier and less expensive for you in the long run. 

Go start up a journal, toss a bunch of detailed photos up there, and let's get to work setting you up for success with plants!

Regards,
Crazy


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## Maybe Plants? (Jun 22, 2019)

Crazy,

I do strive to achieve a lot more with the tank. Arowana are suppose to enjoy water on the lower side of the PH scale from what I have read, I hope the c02 should be alright for him? Also hopefully with just him my n/p stay alright because of sheer volume. I can do water changes everyday if need be also. Does c02 have to have an exact range? Or would less c02 = slower growth rate? Right now I have the c02 plumbed into my return big return pump. I tested the c02 to make sure it worked, can see the c02 come out of the returns I think they look like micro bubbles. Is there a way to eliminate this? As far as tank size I can do whatever needs to be done I guess. By the way this tank is a center piece in my house. According to my wife it needs to look beautiful or its gone. So. There's only one option my friend.


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

Maybe Plants? said:


> Crazy,
> 
> I do strive to achieve a lot more with the tank. Arowana are suppose to enjoy water on the lower side of the PH scale from what I have read, I hope the c02 should be alright for him? Also hopefully with just him my n/p stay alright because of sheer volume. I can do water changes everyday if need be also. Does c02 have to have an exact range? Or would less c02 = slower growth rate? Right now I have the c02 plumbed into my return big return pump. I tested the c02 to make sure it worked, can see the c02 come out of the returns I think they look like micro bubbles. Is there a way to eliminate this? As far as tank size I can do whatever needs to be done I guess. By the way this tank is a center piece in my house. According to my wife it needs to look beautiful or its gone. So. There's only one option my friend.


We can get that worked out. Go ahead and get the journal started and we'll get going.


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## SingAlongWithTsing (Jun 11, 2015)

Greggz said:


> Oh my I got the popcorn popping and am anxiously awaiting the next update!:grin2:
> 
> This should be good!


you might have to wait til august lol

still have to prep the soil and wait for the driftwood in my pond to fully sink before I can even attempt anything. might upgrade my sump too, plumbing will be pretty much the same though.


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## ipkiss (Aug 9, 2011)

Maybe Plants? said:


> Hello crazy,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Holey smokes. What you *need* is your own tank journal as Phil said!  Can't wait to see how this turns out!


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## aquanerd13 (Jun 22, 2019)

Hi, I will be starting a 75 gallon densely planted aquarium that will have 20 neon tetras, 2 M/F pairs of sunset Honey Gouamis, and 10 panda corys. I might also get a pair of panda dwarf cichlids. 

I will be getting some driftwood, anubias, java fern, and salvinia minima and frogbit. The filter will be a polar aurora 3 stage canister filter, along with a cascade 200 that will be taken out and put on a 10 gallon whenever I need a QT/hospital tank. I will also get a sponge filter if I need to dose medicine in my 10 gallon.

What are good plants for these fish? I will get some driftwood and slate to.


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## aquanerd13 (Jun 22, 2019)

I was also wondering about some really pretty colorful plants? BTW the tank wile be low tech low light.


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

Hello Aquanerd,

There aren't many "colorful" plants that thrive in low-light, low-tech tanks. Most of the really vibrant stuff you see here are firmly in the high-light and CO2 injection camp. However, there may be a couple that could suit your system. Nymphaea zhenkeri "Red Tiger Lotus" (actually a lily), Ludwigia repens, and Alternanthera reineckii (the regular variety) have been used for a long time to provide some red color to tanks we would consider low-light and low-tech these days. Some of the Rotalas, Proserpinaca species "Mermaid Weed), and Ammania/Nesea species may also color up a bit in the higher portions when the get closer to the light. 

Give the 2000-2002 years a glance to get some fairly reasonable ideas AGA Aquascaping Contest


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## aquanerd13 (Jun 22, 2019)

Perfect thank you!


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## aquanerd13 (Jun 22, 2019)

Can anubias and java fern survive in medium light?(150 watts. I will have Ludwigia repens, sooooooooo).


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## ipkiss (Aug 9, 2011)

aquanerd13 said:


> Can anubias and java fern survive in medium light?(150 watts. I will have Ludwigia repens, sooooooooo).


Hmm. Allow me to interject on this one. As far as anubias and java fern goes, I've got some "surviving" in light that barely registers 3 par. It is some old (stock! NOT t5ho) fluorescent tube in a stock flimsy plastic fixture that comes with tank kits. It also gets a bit of morning ambient sunlight which also barely registers 1 par. So yea, I think with medium light it ought to do even better.


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## Desert Pupfish (May 6, 2019)

Phil Edwards said:


> Hello Aquanerd,
> 
> There aren't many "colorful" plants that thrive in low-light, low-tech tanks. Most of the really vibrant stuff you see here are firmly in the high-light and CO2 injection camp. However, there may be a couple that could suit your system. Nymphaea zhenkeri "Red Tiger Lotus" (actually a lily), Ludwigia repens, and Alternanthera reineckii (the regular variety) have been used for a long time to provide some red color to tanks we would consider low-light and low-tech these days. Some of the Rotalas, Proserpinaca species "Mermaid Weed), and Ammania/Nesea species may also color up a bit in the higher portions when the get closer to the light.
> 
> Give the 2000-2002 years a glance to get some fairly reasonable ideas AGA Aquascaping Contest


Hygrophila polysperma "Tropic Sunset" is another easy plant with some color. It's doing beautifully in my new low tech tank. In low light it's mostly yellow & pink, but with more light can get reddish. The easiest plant I've ever grown.....

There are some sword cultivars like "Aflame" that look very colorful (at least on the plantseller websites) . Anyone have experience with them?


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

Desert Pupfish said:


> Hygrophila polysperma "Tropic Sunset" is another easy plant with some color. It's doing beautifully in my new low tech tank. In low light it's mostly yellow & pink, but with more light can get reddish. The easiest plant I've ever grown.....
> 
> There are some sword cultivars like "Aflame" that look very colorful (at least on the plantseller websites) . Anyone have experience with them?


I am growing some purple aflame, but they're under higher light and co2. Can't speak to them in a low tech and/or low light environment.

Edit: Phil, what potting soil on today's market would you recommend? The go-to used to be the orange bag of Miracle-Gro but that doesn't seem to be readily available anymore.


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

aquanerd13 said:


> Can anubias and java fern survive in medium light?(150 watts. I will have Ludwigia repens, sooooooooo).


Those two can survive a nuclear holocaust. You're good to go with them.



Desert Pupfish said:


> Hygrophila polysperma "Tropic Sunset" is another easy plant with some color. It's doing beautifully in my new low tech tank. In low light it's mostly yellow & pink, but with more light can get reddish. The easiest plant I've ever grown.....
> 
> There are some sword cultivars like "Aflame" that look very colorful (at least on the plantseller websites) . Anyone have experience with them?


H. polysperma is a great plant if it's legal to keep in your jurisdiction. It's listed as a noxious weed in many states (Federally as well, I think) so I don't recommend it anymore. If it's legal to keep and transport in your area and you can get some, it's worth a try but likely won't get too colorful in a low-light and low-tech environment.

Most swords are well suited to the low-tech/low-light environment, but they get too large for most tanks and don't color up well unless they get good light and CO2. 



varanidguy said:


> I am growing some purple aflame, but they're under higher light and co2. Can't speak to them in a low tech and/or low light environment.
> 
> Edit: Phil, what potting soil on today's market would you recommend? The go-to used to be the orange bag of Miracle-Gro but that doesn't seem to be readily available anymore.


I haven't used potting soil in a tank in a looooong time and can't really recommend a specific brand. I'd start looking for mixes that have a low percentage of "forest products" (bark), no pearlite or vermiculite, and no supplementary fertilizers.


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## aquanerd13 (Jun 22, 2019)

Thank you Phil! I will have a light with 150 watts and 2500 lumens over a 75 gallon aquarium. The co2 is too expensive and complex for my liking. H. polysperma is a federally recognized noxious weed and is according to the USGS 'Illegal to import, sell, or buy in the United States of America' What substrate would you recommend? I will have some panda corys and dwarf cichlids so keep that in mind. I was planning on pool filter sand, would that be okay for plants?


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## r_norahs (Jul 18, 2019)

*Salt in Planted Tank*

Hi Phil,
You posted this sometime back so you might not be open to answer my question, but here goes in case.I've been out of fish keeping for 30 years, but just started back. I have a somewhat newly cycled tank with good parameters (Nitrogen cycle complete in my estimation. O ammonia, 0 nitrites, 20 or less nitrates. 37 gallons with about 27 gallons of water, the rest rocks and gravel/eco complete. I put the eco complete towards the sides and back where I figure I'd plant. Gravel is toward center area.) I acquired some Creamcycle Lyre-tail Mollies who are not doing well. I've lost two in about 7 days. One seemed to bloat up, the other just struggled from the get-go although I used drip acclimation with her. They are stressed. No visible sign of sickness like ich. The rest of the fish are OK, but they are Zebra Dainos and White Clouds - hardy type. I just added 5 tablespoons of salt for the Mollies out of desperation (1 tablespoon for each 5 gallons water - and I'm just a bit short since I have 27 gallons of water in the tank. A lot of my plants are Anubus or Java Fern type plants attached to rocks. I have some Java moss. Otherwise, I'm not sure what I have. Some are stem type, others can float on water or be planted. I'm new to the planted tank world. They were Petco plants and not hugely expensive. I'll attach a photo. I could take the plants out of the tank if this is necessary. I'd like your opinion. I believe the plants help the whole environment of my tank. Maybe just risk it and keep them in?
I guess I can't post a photo. Or don't know how. The other plants are probably Echinodorus Bleheri and assorted, Amazon Sword, Alternanthera ficoidea, hygrophilla species, ceratophyllum Thalictroides. No Crypts. Also I have some Ludwigia repens. Thanks for your help if I'm not too late. Just joined this site.


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## jdwebb1 (Aug 26, 2019)

Dear Ask Me Anything - 

Starting a new, first aquascape, have done lots of reading, seen lots of videos (did you know there's a thousand different recipes for a simple chocolate chip cookie?) hope you got my drift there...here's my question. My design includes some elevation changes, can I use pumice rock to take up displacement and then spread Eco-Complete as a substrate to form the elevations, and use a 1-2 inch bed of Controsoil as my planting medium?

By the way, all I wanted was one good recipe for a chocolate chip cookie, turns out I had it all the time, my grandmother's recipe.

Thanks.


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## jaz419 (Jan 21, 2018)

jdwebb1 said:


> My design includes some elevation changes, can I use pumice rock to take up displacement and then spread Eco-Complete as a substrate to form the elevations, and use a 1-2 inch bed of Controsoil as my planting medium?



Yes! Lots of people do this including myself. It works well! Put it in a mesh bag if you need to hold it together in one spot really well. 



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## Haus (Sep 3, 2019)

First planted tank and I used organic soil capped with about 3/4 inches of aquarium sand. Loaded with plants and a constant battle with phosphates. Plants are really growing. 50 percent water changes weekly. Nitrates move towards 40 ppm by water change and back to about 15ppm, phosphates back to around 5 ppm for a couple of days. Was dosing El method but backed off because of nitrates. Question is could are these high nitrate and phosphate levels have to do with the organic soil? Tanks been flooded for about 3 months and cycled.


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## utilities21 (Oct 25, 2017)

I had 4 red danios in my 27 gallon..and I got a dozen tetras , mollies and 6 more danios in this tank. Did I go overboard? Would this be uncomfortable for the fish?












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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

utilities21 said:


> I had 4 red danios in my 27 gallon..and I got a dozen tetras , mollies and 6 more danios in this tank. Did I go overboard? Would this be uncomfortable for the fish?


It doesn't look overstocked, but I wouldn't add any more fish. Keep a close eye on ammonia and nitrite for the next couple of weeks; that was a large load to put on the filter all at once. Be prepared to do water changes to keep ammonia below 0.5 ppm.

Regards,
Phil


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## utilities21 (Oct 25, 2017)

Phil Edwards said:


> It doesn't look overstocked, but I wouldn't add any more fish. Keep a close eye on ammonia and nitrite for the next couple of weeks; that was a large load to put on the filter all at once. Be prepared to do water changes to keep ammonia below 0.5 ppm.
> 
> Regards,
> Phil


I lost two danios and two tetras one at a time in a span of 4 days. Could b the fish were not healthy to start with. I did 30th percent water change. Would a 30 percent water change twice week be ok? . How long would I have to keep this frequency? 

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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

You'll want to do water changes according to ammonia concentration in your tank. Once it reaches 0.02-0.05 ppm, do a 30% water change.


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