# Why is my GH rising?



## WaterLife (Jul 1, 2015)

Only contributing factors I can think of is the amount of flourish comprehensive, calcium and magnesium could be building up in levels, but it should be getting used up and even if it didn't I highly doubt levels could get that high in a month using regular dosages.

Maybe you have rocks that raise GH?

Are you adding Epsom salt to the tank?

You sure you shook/inverted the test tube after each drop? Just checking.


----------



## Buu (Feb 15, 2015)

WaterLife said:


> Only contributing factors I can think of is the amount of flourish comprehensive, calcium and magnesium could be building up in levels, but it should be getting used up and even if it didn't I highly doubt levels could get that high in a month using regular dosages.
> 
> Maybe you have rocks that raise GH?
> 
> ...


No rocks and only added what was mentioned. 
I even inverted test tube around 5x after each drop.


----------



## Argus (May 22, 2013)

There may be something in that black sand that is raising GH. Take some and put it in a jar with RO water (if you have it) or tap water. Then put some tap water in another jar as a control. Keep them warm (like your aquarium) and see if they change over time.

In the meantime, do a water change to see if that brings things down to normal. 

You might find a 



 useful. They can be had for about $10. 

TDS , what does it mean and why should i test? | The Aquarium Solution (US)


----------



## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Buu said:


> I have a one month old planted tank using only tap water which hasn't had a water change since set up. Only top off with R/O water. Tested my parameters today and got the following...
> GH - 30< ( stopped trying after reaching 30 drops)
> KH - 7
> Ph - 7.5
> ...



Hi Buu,

It is likely the National Geographic™ Aquarium Sand substrate. There are several posts on various forum about it raising hardness and PH. In fact, I believe I saw a post a week or so ago that said there was a warning on the bag.


----------



## Buu (Feb 15, 2015)

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Hi Buu,
> 
> It is likely the National Geographic™ Aquarium Sand substrate. There are several posts on various forum about it raising hardness and PH. In fact, I believe I saw a post a week or so ago that said there was a warning on the bag.


Just found my left over sand and it's a caribsea super natural black sand. Not sure if it has the same effect as nat geo substrate tho.


----------



## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi Buu,

If it isn't the substrate it has to be something else. You mentioned shrimp do you feed them a special shrimp food that may contain calcium for their shells?


----------



## Buu (Feb 15, 2015)

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Hi Buu,
> 
> If it isn't the substrate it has to be something else. You mentioned shrimp do you feed them a special shrimp food that may contain calcium for their shells?


Nope none of that. I only feed zucchini and sometimes those dried seaweeds used for making sushi.


----------



## Daisy Mae (Jun 21, 2015)

Isn't dried seaweed high in minerals?


----------



## Buu (Feb 15, 2015)

Daisy Mae said:


> Isn't dried seaweed high in minerals?


Checked ingredients and nutritional value for the one I used and it contained no Ca or Mg.

I can't figure out what's causing it.. And the weird thing is that no shrimps died and they were in the tank for about 3 weeks. (I thought too low/high of a GH can cause molting issues)

Took some sand from tank and placed them in a cup with R/O water. Tested GH right after and it was at 0... We'll see if that changes in a day or two.


----------



## Daisy Mae (Jun 21, 2015)

Wow, this is just weird. Hope you can figure it out and that the shrimp stay well.


----------



## WaterLife (Jul 1, 2015)

Hmm, it has to be something being added into the water.

Any chance you can get a full tank picture, maybe we might see something that you didn't know may be causing it. After all, something has to be causing the increase in GH.
Maybe something is touching the water or evaporation is getting on something and dripping back down into the tank.
Overfeeding fish foods that have calcium?

What do you have in your filter?

Using any crushed coral/oyster?
Any root tabs/osmocote or dirt?

What else besides calcium and magnesium can affect GH levels? Can iron?
If the sand is Tahitian moon sand, I hear it has some iron in it (people actually picked up iron with a magnet).
Keep up the water tests in the cup of water with sand.

Maybe something was accidentally poured into the tank by someone?
I am sure most, if not all are not the cause, but something to rule out.

Test the GH again, collecting water from a different area (high up, low down) of the tank? Haha, worth a try.

But yes, do water changes more often to dilute down the GH closer to your tap water levels in the mean time for your shrimp molts.
Have you seen any successful molts?
Still need to figure out what is causing the GH rise though.


----------



## keymastr (May 25, 2015)

Are you sure your test works? I have never had any luck with the GH test. It often goes bad and will not change colors anymore. A little too much heat is enough to ruin it.


----------



## Audionut (Apr 24, 2015)

WaterLife said:


> What else besides calcium and magnesium can affect GH levels? Can iron?


Yes. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_water


> Water's hardness is determined by the concentration of multivalent cations in the water. Multivalent cations are positively charged metal complexes with a charge greater than 1+. Usually, the cations have the charge of 2+.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion#Common_ions

With a GH reading this high though, anything other then Ca or Mg would likely mean death of inhabitants.

OP:  If your test was accurate, keep removing things from the tank and placing in RO water until you find the source. To speed the process up, and a little vinegar. The vinegar won't register in the test kit, but the acid (in vinegar) will help dissolve Ca and Mg faster.


----------



## WaterLife (Jul 1, 2015)

Audionut said:


> OP: If your test was accurate, keep removing things from the tank and placing in RO water until you find the source. To speed the process up, and a little vinegar. The vinegar won't register in the test kit, but the acid (in vinegar) will help dissolve Ca and Mg faster.




Thanks for the links, will read through them.


I like your signature, I recall you using that line in a post you made on one of my threads. Haha 


Just to help me better understand, the "vinegar molecules" would "consume" the Ca and Mg into what? Any by-products or just dissipates/disappears?


I assume the pH would lower since the GH would lower and/or since vinegar is acidic. Any effect on KH with the added vinegar? Is the pH drop from the added vinegar safer than the high levels of GH (assuming Ca and Mg)? Any recommended safe dilution ratios of vinegar to water volume?
The fumes/smell of vinegar that dissipates, is that something else off-gassing from the vinegar or is it the actual vinegar evaporating?


Haha, sorry to derail, just curious.


And to OP, audionut's recommendation to set up tests for each item to rule them out, is a good one.


----------



## Audionut (Apr 24, 2015)

The vinegar has a low pH (around 3.5 IIRC) which is what dissolves the harder minerals (at a faster rate then higher pH water). The pH has no effect on GH tests that I'm aware of, and if there is a CaCO3 (calcium carbonate) or MgCO3 (magnesium carbonate) source in the water, this will want to raise the pH as it dissolves.

Vinegar doesn't consume anything, it's acid (H+) content breaks down the CaCO3 bond. The H+ ions from vinegar will bond with the Carbonate (CO3) from CaCO3 to form Bicarbonate (HCO3) and Carbonic Acid (H2CO3), leaving the Calcium (Ca) ions free. Does the same thing with Magnesium Carbonate (MgCO3), expect of course it leaves the Magnesium (Mg) ions free.

I recommend vinegar only in this test situation to speed up the process of finding the GH source, and only outside of the tank. Vinegar can be added to the tank to lower pH, but it's a pretty ass backwards way of doing it, and by the time you added enough vinegar to lower the pH by any measurable amount, it would stink to high heaven. No idea on what causes the smell, I'm having enough trouble learning aquarium chemistry as it is. :tongue:


----------



## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Have you have a TDS meter?
Someone you know have a TDS meter?


Take a water sample and add MgSO4 to it.
See if your test kit will provide a GH reading then.


This is not adding up.


----------



## Buu (Feb 15, 2015)

Well checked the cup of R/O with sand sample today and GH is still 0... I assume my test kit is working because I just got it yesterday and expiration date is 2017. I also tried it for different water sources with different results.
I have no other things to test since I have no rocks or wood in my tank, just the sand, plants, and a filter. 

Gonna go around town and look for a TDS meter later or get one online if none are available locally. 

And for those wondering, yes my shrimps are molting fine. I see one molt almost daily.


----------



## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

Look into biogenic decalcification. 

Plants are taking in calcium carbonate, then excreting the calcium as a method of getting the carbon. 
Calcium builds up on the leaves. I would not be surprised if some of it showed up in the water.


----------



## Buu (Feb 15, 2015)

Diana said:


> Look into biogenic decalcification.
> 
> Plants are taking in calcium carbonate, then excreting the calcium as a method of getting the carbon.
> Calcium builds up on the leaves. I would not be surprised if some of it showed up in the water.


Hmm.. Now that you mention, some of my Anubias leaves do have calcium build ups on them which I always scrape off. Since this is happening, should I try increasing my excel dosage? 

Also something weird that I noticed... I went and got a new bottle of flourish( bottle A) and the one that I've been using( bottle B, was given to me by a friend with about 20% left) is a little on the dark side... Almost like a Pepsi color. New bottle looks like tea colored.

It might be that calcium denitrification and my old bottle of flourish( may be concentrated looking at the darker color) is causing the increase in GH.

I'll start doing 5% water change with R/O water every few days until GH decreases.


----------

