# Marko's College 20 Gal Long: home for the summer 5/19/13



## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

now that im situated in my college apartment i will be setting up a 20 long.
right now, i have the stand, filter, heater, light, and CO2 system. hopefully i will soon get the substrate (ADA aquasoil) and hardscape, and the inline CO2 atomizer (dont want to use my old crappy inline reactor).
its gonna be a high light tank, with 2 65 watt PC lights. one will be used only for a few hours as a noon burst, though.

here is a tentative sketch of the layout:








let me know what you guys think.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

just filled up my CO2 bottle for this tank. im hoping to be able to set up the hardscape and equipment some time next week.

im also trying to figure out what kind of fish i want. i know i want shrimp, so they need to be shrimp-safe. rigth now im leaning toward CPDs.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

just set up my DIY dosing solutions. i have 1 500mL bottle of macros (will dose 8mL to get 1/8 tsp KNO3, and 1/16 tsp of KH2PO4 and K2SO4), and 1 500mL of micro (8mL will give me 1/16 Plantex CSM+B and 1mL of Excel (for a touch of extra carbon and to keep mold from growing). 
really excited to get this tank going.


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## keithy (Jun 8, 2010)

C. wendtii gets very big in high tech tank, at least in my experience. You may want to move it back or simply use some other smaller crypt species.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

yeah, i decided a while ago that ill probably put an erio(s) there instead anyway, as i sold off all my c. wendtii (got bored of it).


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

i am way too excited to get this tank going. so as i have nothing to do for it until my aquasoil and rock get here, i took a shot of my fert mixtures out of desperation.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

the hardscape is in. and the first round of plants comes tomorrow.
heres what it looks like:


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## .Mko. (Sep 23, 2010)

Solid Hardscape.


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## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

What are the plans for the fauna, Marko? Shrimp? 

Are you going to be able to fit all of those plants in there??


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

.Mko. said:


> Solid Hardscape.


thank you



crazydaz said:


> What are the plans for the fauna, Marko? Shrimp?
> 
> Are you going to be able to fit all of those plants in there??


yeah, im thinking CRS/CBS and blue velvet neos. and a school of CPDs. maybe 5-6 otos too if i can find a group that seems active and not too shy.

i can try. 
the tonina is only gonna be 2 rows of plants, and the p. sao paulo is only 1 row of plants. the rest are gonna be bushes in proportions to the sizes seen.
plus i tend to put a bunch of plants in a scape, and then move out some as i determine which grow and fit the best in that particular arrangement.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

first round of planting done(ish). will get the remainder of the plants in a few days.
i harvested half of the downoi from my ADA30C, and half from my emersed setup. im curios to see how quickly the emersed adapts compared to the submerged.

FTS:









submerged p. helferi:









emmersed p. helferi:









freebie, not sure which sp it is. help?









other freebie, anyone know what it is?

















e. aussie II:









e. parkeri:









p. sao paulo:


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

having some issues getting the CO2 to run smoothly. im not sure if its just an issue of me being bad at setting it, or if i may need a new regulator.


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## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

Freebie #1 looks to be Rotala sp....maybe "colorata"? Freebie #2....a Hygro sp. of some sort?

Looks like a solid start Marko!!


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

figured out whats going on with my CO2. my solenoid is broken. my ph controller is turning the CO2 "off" and bubbles just keep going. no fauna in the tank though, so its not a big deal. i doubt the plants will mind the extra CO2. anyone want to sell me a solenoid cheap, lol?




crazydaz said:


> Freebie #1 looks to be Rotala sp....maybe "colorata"? Freebie #2....a Hygro sp. of some sort?
> 
> Looks like a solid start Marko!!


both are rotalas. shouldve mentioned that i was just having trouble determining which rotala was which out of the three i got for free (r. yao yai, r. m. variegated, and r. butterfly). only posted pics of 2. but i got it all sorted out now thanks to an ID thread i made in the plants section. 1 is the yao yai, and 2 is the variegated. the one i didnt post then must be the butterfly.

thanks.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

so with my CO2 blasting for a few hours and my noon burst being on, i had to take some macro shots of the resulting pearling. plants must be loving it. although ill have to be extra careful to bring it down slowly once i get a solenoid after my tank cycles in preparation for fish.

p. sao paulo:









r. yao yai:









h. lancea:









d. diandra:









e. aussie II:









r. m. variegated:

































t. f. lotus blossom (this one is still straightening out, offering me a perfect view of the growth tip):









e. belem showing new growth after just 48 hours in the tank: 









r. butterfly:


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

got some amazing pearling shots just had to put em up.


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## Geniusdudekiran (Dec 6, 2010)

WOW. You weren't kidding!


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

i know.
i have really high hopes for the growth in this tank.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

got the remainder of my plant species (excluding e. hydropiper and n. pedicellata golden, still looking for them if anyone has), and planted tonight. pics tomorrow.

also noticing new runners on the e. belem, and new growth on just about everything. im expecting to be growing out the plants for about 3 weeks or so, and then be able to start shaping.

trying to figure out what fish i want. i definitely want shrimp, so they need to be shrimp safe. any suggestions?


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

r. green didnt ship too well... but some should survive. 

here are the pics:


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Those plants look happy in there. You have a lot of nice plants.

Did that box get there yet?


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

not yet. maybe it will arrive with the mail today in an hour or so.
but the substrate fertz arent for this tank. with MTS and brand new AS amazonia, i dont think this substrate needs anything added.


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## JoraaÑ (Jun 29, 2009)

Such a small tank with so many varieties....


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

collectoritis at its finest. lol
i will probably tone down the amount of plants i have as the tank progresses, and i see how well each of the plants does and how it looks in this particular scape. 
the h. tiger on both sides is definitely going out. its just there to add plant matter while the other plants fill in.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

the plants are growing alright, but im noticings diatoms starting to spread.
its not too bad yet, but i dont like em. i know its probably just due to the new tank, but my erios, tonina, and d. diandra wont do well if any significant diatoms grow on them and shade them.
have good CO2 (i think)- 3-4 bps all photoperiod long via a GLA inline atomizer. high flow too.  dosing EI and doing 50% daily WCs.
still not testing any nitrites, so it will be a while before i can add amanos and otos to clean this mess up.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

finally got nitrites. hopefully they will drop within a week or 2.
i need to add some otos and amanos. the diatoms are starting to get out of hand. it happens every time i use a new tank, and it always goes away as the tank matures; but they are starting to spread extensively onto the foliage of the plants, and im worried for some of the slower growing plants (namely the erios and tonina) that they may be shaded out before the diatoms clear up. any suggestions?


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

nitrites are on the decline . but the diatoms have been getting worse. since classes were canceled for 2 days i went in and manually removed as much as i could (even cleared it off the lower leaves of the r. colorata leaf by leaf). im hoping the diatoms will run their course soon, but in the meantime im planning on adding tank-bred otos and some amanos as soon as my nitrites hit 0. 

here are pics of the before and after cleaning
before:









after:


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## Byakuya (Oct 26, 2011)

nice tank man; cant wait to see it in a few weeks


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

No power. Will likely last 4-10 more days. Likely to loose most of the plants, not to mention my bettas in other tanks.


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## Lil' Swimz$ (Jul 24, 2010)

Oh NO! I hope your plants and other fishy animals make it okay! :


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

dont worry, power is back on. has been for a few days now. all the fish survived, as did all the plants in the 20L.
actually wasnt all that bad. it stunted the growth tips on the r. macrandra variegated which got it to throw out a bunch of sideshoots in the 2 days after the power got back on. and the majority of the diatoms disappeared.

the tank is almost done cycling, and i hope to begin stocking next week. will add otos, and then shrimp. then cpds.

might take pics tomorrow. unfortunately, im still growing out the plants, and not yet shaping them, so its not too pretty. but the plants are healthy, and some of them are real lookers.


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## Byakuya (Oct 26, 2011)

can't wait to see some new pics


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

here they are.
didnt take a lot, since nothing changed too much (except 1/2 my p. helferi melted in the blackout. the rest is doing ok and regrowing though, plus i farm the stuff emersed, so not an issue). i apologize for the quality, the CO2 misting was on and screwed a little with the clarity.

r. m. variegated just starting to creep along the surface (ill let this stem grow to be a bit longer then top it and plant the clipping):









sideshoots i was talking about:









r. colorata just reached the surface and just starting to color back up from the blackout:









p. sao paulo coloring back up:









d. diandra:











also, my NH3/NH4+ and NO2- are finally 0 so this tank is officially cycled. as soon as i get my replacement CO2 solenoid, i can start stocking. otos will go in first.


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## GMYukonon24s (May 3, 2009)

Nice plants


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## SpecGrrl (Jul 26, 2012)

I am so glad!


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

GMYukonon24s said:


> Nice plants





SpecGrrl said:


> I am so glad!


thanks


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## marko d (Nov 5, 2012)

From one Marko to another...glad to hear it all made it through the power outage!

Looks good in there, great pearling shots...love the 20 long. Have one myself, but lacking CO2 and some HO. Someday.

Cheers.


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## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

Sometimes Fate knows what's best, Marko! Nothing like a "forced" two day black-out to help with the algae/diatom issue!

Pretty plants!! Hurry up and grow them out so you can start scaping!


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## Xavier10 (Oct 30, 2012)

That is beautiful


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

marko d said:


> From one Marko to another...glad to hear it all made it through the power outage!
> 
> Looks good in there, great pearling shots...love the 20 long. Have one myself, but lacking CO2 and some HO. Someday.
> 
> Cheers.


thank you marko. 

thanks, the extreme pearling is cuz my CO2 is really high, and i have a ton of O2. ill have to dial down the CO2 soon, when i get livestock. but i should still be able to maintain a good amount of growth and pearling. 

HO? unfamiliar with this abbreviation. 
yeah CO2 isnt the easiest thing to get, but since the first time i tried it, i could never go back. maybe set up a nano with DIY CO2? and some r. fluitans (pearls more than any other plant IME). 



crazydaz said:


> Sometimes Fate knows what's best, Marko! Nothing like a "forced" two day black-out to help with the algae/diatom issue!
> 
> Pretty plants!! Hurry up and grow them out so you can start scaping!


looks like!

thanks. 
the d. diandra is just about done. after then next topping ill start maintaining it as a bush. 
r. colorata is close too, but ill probably move it to where the r. green is now. the r. green, r. colorata, and r. macrandra are just too similar. so ill swap out the r. green eventually. for now ill just stick it in the back left. also have some red cabomba on the way that i will place in the tank. not sure how it will look and whether ill keep it there as part of the scape or just farm it out. for now ill put it where the r. colorata currently is.


Xavier10 said:


> That is beautiful


thank you.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

CO2 bottle is empty, but thats ok, cuz i am about to be replacing the low pressure gauge anyway. so ill fill it up and replace the gauge and fill the bottle on wednesday, and do a touch of rearranging. im gonna clear out the remainder of the h. tiger (dont need it anymore), put in a touch of lileopsis mini, move the r. colorata to where the r. green is, put some cabomba furcata where the r. colorata is, and move the r. green to the back left.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

r. m. variegated is back to its full splendor. here is a shot:


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

added amano shrimp yesterday. my LFS had em on sale since they came in smaller than usual (were the size of an adult RCS), so they were $2 each. bought 8 of em.
unfortunately 2 died in the night. was surprised and when i tested my tank i found out my nitrates were at 15ppm, which probably wasnt helping, did a 50% WC to bring them down to 10ppm (tap is at 5ppm).
otherwise everything is doing ok. diatoms are starting to clear up all the way, and the amanos and otos im getting in a few days should speed this along. got some BBA as my CO2 was bouncing all over the place due to a broke solenoid. i got that fixed, and now i should be able to get rid of it with some manual removal and excel spot dosing.
plants are growing in very nice. the r. colorata only needs one more re-plant style trim before i can start shaping it. d. diandra is gonna be shaped with the next trim. r. green is being phased out with c. furcata. p. sao paulo is starting to grow again (took the black out pretty hard). not sure whats going on with my n. pedicellata. its not melting nor algeafing, but not growing either.
pics:


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

went away for a few days for thanksgiving break. was surprised to see how much everything grew. had to do a pretty decent trim, and soon im expecting everything to fall into place.
diatoms are gone (the 6 otos probably helped quicken the job) but i am getting a touch of bba, but thats cuz i lowered my CO2 for the new livestock. ill be raising it up soon, and will spot dose excel in the meantime.

before trim FTS:









after trim FTS:









hacked r. colorata:









r. m. variegated, im in love with this plant:









t. f. lotus blossom; you cant see it in the pic, but i have 3 sideshoots starting off:









c. furcata is growing:









new shoots on p. sao paulo after last weeks trim:









this e. parkeri has the longest leaves ive ever seen:









can anyone ID this snail for me, i had a few pop up in the tank:


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## Fdsh5 (Jan 3, 2012)

Looks like a ramshorn snail to me.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

the bba is starting to die away from my excel spot dosing and increased CO2. plants are growing.

ive decided to get a pair of german rams or apistos for the tank. in a few weeks ill stop by a lfs and see if any of the rams or apistos they have seem to have paired off.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

got CPDs yesterday, and have been killing off algae for a while now. trimmed down the hairgrass again, and i think im 75% done killing algae.

here are some shots:
CPDs:

































amano (he grew!):









fat, happy otos:

















r. m. variegated (cant stop taking pics of it):









r. m. green:









d. diandra:


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## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

Love the CPD's, Marko! 

How are you going to take care of the tank over break, though??


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

thank you.

automatic feeder for the fish. and ill be stopping by every now and then to do a WC and dose some fertz. should hold up ok. i went on a month long vacation several times with another tank, and it got no WCs or fertz, and everything did fine.


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Looking good Marco!


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

thank you.

the CPDs are coloring up a bit more, and i can identify a few of the more-colorful males out of the lot.


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## ThatGuyWithTheFish (Apr 29, 2012)

Are any of them orange? They could be emerald danios.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

i think they are just young. i noticed some reddish orange developing on a few of them (these will likely turn out to be males), and all of them are smaller than the adult size. 
i suppose its possible that they are hybrids of d. erythromicron and d. margaritatus, but definitely arent d. erythromicron (if that is the fish you meant). they have spots, not stripes.


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## kwheeler91 (May 26, 2009)

Definitely cpds. I bred some once and they do take a while to color up. Also depends on what they were eating before you got them.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

speaking of eating, they ignored the flake i offered, and only nibbled on the cut up frozen bloodworms i gave. which is odd. last time i had them they were not picky at all.
my guess is they are busy hunting down all the little nematodes, scuds, cyclops, etc in the tank since it was running for months with no predators.
will try some repashy on sunday.


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## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

Some of these fish are neat, but so damn finicky that it's almost like trying to get a toddler to eat their lima beans. No thanks!!  I'll stick with the piggies that I have running around my tank! ANYTHING is fair game for them!


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

they arent normally picky eaters.
they are omnivores, and the last batch i had a few years back ate flakes, micro pellets, atisons betta starter, freezedried daphnia, freezedried bloodworms, frozen daphnia, algae wafers, and any shrimplets/microinverts they could catch.
these are probably just picking away at the micro fauna, and probably dont have their full appetites back yet either.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

tragic news.
my CO2 malfunctioned. the working pressure got too high and it kinda pushed past my solenoid, flooding the tank with CO2.
my roomates call me saying my fish are dead. i get back and shut off the CO2, turn on the airstone, do 2 50% WCs, and now i have 6 living CPDs. netted out a ton of dead ones, along with all the otos (dead) and shrimp (dead).

contacted the msjinkzd to get another 20, and will pray this doesnt happen again.


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Oh man sorry to hear about that. That's a bummer.


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

:icon_cry:


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

:icon_sad:


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## Newman (Jul 3, 2010)

I know CO2 can be dangerous, but damn that's just bad luck 
condolences to you for all those animals that didn't make it.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

thanks people.
ive replaced the reg and solenoid. this should keep the CO2 spot on from now.
im not paying for another clippard valve. ill see if they will replace this one for me, and see about using that other one at a lower pressure, but from now on im sticking to the milwaukee solenoids. thats the one that i put on (took it from the 30C which no longer needs it, as the CO2 is empty, and tank is going to be dismantled anyway) and is holding very nicey.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

This really sucks man.

:icon_cry:


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

the remaining CPDs are doing good, and im looking forward to adding more in there, though they seem perfectly comfortable as is. here is a shot:








please ignore the thread algae floating up from the rock. im slowly eradicating it.

also, one of my e. parkeri started growing strange a while ago. its been getting bigger and bigger, and turning reddish brown. now its already split itself. some sort of mutation? all my e. parkeri come from the 2 i initially bought from joraan; and this is very new. any thoughts?


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## zergling (May 16, 2007)

@[email protected] said:


> also, one of my e. parkeri started growing strange a while ago. its been getting bigger and bigger, and turning reddish brown. now its already split itself. some sort of mutation? all my e. parkeri come from the 2 i initially bought from joraan; and this is very new. any thoughts?


The description sounds and looks like Blyxa Japonica. Can you take a picture from farther away to see the whole plant in question?

Just a wild guess - a small blyxa japonica plantlet somehow ended up on your tank. With enough CO2 and lighting it will get very weedy very quickly, and seems to like to turning brownish/reddish the more light it gets.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

all the e. parkeri came from my ada 30c where they were for months. never had any b. japonica in that tank.
look at the FTS in post 43 (page 3). the plant directly to the left of the d. diandra, between the d. diandra and stone is the e. parkeri in question. thats what it looked like.
then in post 44, i took a FTS, and a shot of just it commenting how its leaves were longer than id ever seen on this plant. the sister plantlets of e. parkeri are visible around it.
will get an updated shot of the full plant in a bit.


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## zergling (May 16, 2007)

On your FTS, nope, doesn't look much like blyxa.


>


However, notice the leaf pattern on this one? Seems to start looking like blyxa...


>


These look so much like blyxa under med-high lighting and good CO2.


@[email protected] said:


>



But blyxa japonica isn't algae, it doesn't materialize out of nowhere.....so I'm most likely wrong :smile:


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

now that im examining images of blyxa closer, they do look very similar.
but it was an erio (or a perfect replica of one) for months! and i never bought any blyxa japonica!
i will move it whatever it is to a different spot soon anyway. and then ill look at the roots. blyxa should have an average root mass of average roots, while an erio of this size would have a considerable root system of thin roots.


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## zergling (May 16, 2007)

In high light high CO2, blyxa gets big.

I started from these:









Then they became these:

















In very low light, blyxa stays super tiny. It will stay alive, but won't really grow much.


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## zergling (May 16, 2007)

@[email protected] said:


> now that im examining images of blyxa closer, they do look very similar.
> but it was an erio (or a perfect replica of one) for months! and i never bought any blyxa japonica!
> i will move it whatever it is to a different spot soon anyway. and then ill look at the roots. blyxa should have an average root mass of average roots, while an erio of this size would have a considerable root system of thin roots.



Blyxa japonica have very substantial roots, much like the few crypt species I've tried. However, as you mentioned, blyxa pales in comparison to the root systems of established erios :icon_eek:


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## zergling (May 16, 2007)

As to how you got blyxa in your tank (assuming it IS blyxa), I'm willing to bet a tiny plantlet was a hitchhiker somewhere.

I remember in my last scape finding tiny blyxa plantlets in the back of of my tank. There were quite a few of them too. I never figured out how they ended there, but my best guess what that when I pulled out my blyxa, I must have sent bits and pieces in the back of the tank without realizing, and they all grew to full plants. That's just a wild guess, though LOL


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

so i uprooted all my "erios" as most of them needed to be split anyway. 
2 or 3 more are growing longer leaves, and their roots look very similar to all the others, but they dont have quite as many.

here is one of the plants im sure is a true e. parkeri:









here is the plant that i now know is b. japonica:








has a less roots in comparison to its foliage.

here is another imposter:









all 3:









and here are the e. parkeri in my emersed setup flowering. proving to me that i do in fact have e. parkeri.


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## zergling (May 16, 2007)

The second one is definitely blyxa japonica. The third one, not so sure, but it's bigger than your parkeri.

Nice emersed setup! I need to get me an organized emersed setup like yours!


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

thanks zergling. its surprisingly cheap to set up.

well, im gone for winter break. will be coming back for water changes every now and then, but no daily fussing around the tank for a month.
some pics:


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## marioman72 (Jan 22, 2010)

looks realy great, the downoi is looking really good


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

Thank you.
I've always found downoi to be easy to grow. It's done well wherever I put it.


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## marioman72 (Jan 22, 2010)

it was so weird ive only realy tired it once, and it was when i started my 10g, but it melted right away. not sure what it was that did it but id like to try it again in the future.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

ive had a few stems melt during the sandy power outage, but most did fine. 
do you have CO2? thats usually the most important thing.


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## marioman72 (Jan 22, 2010)

yea that's weirdest part i had everything going fine. every plant in the tank was doing amazing except the downoi. even the HC carpet was doing alright. so idk maybe the plants that i ordered didn't make the trip ok.


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

hey marko the tank progress looks wonderful. I can't wait to see more updates, I can already see how those stem groupings are gonna look as they fill the back of your tank! what co2 levels are you keeping in there? the pearling looks crazy :O


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

my CO2 is as high as the fish can handle. thats really all i can tell you. every week id raise it a little til the fish started gasping and then backed off. today i added more CPDs, and the shot right for the surface gasping, so i had to dial it down a bit. in a week ill start cranking it back up.
i use a ph controller, and it was set to 5.7, with a kh of 2-3. the chart would put my CO2 at over 60ppm. but its not the most accurate measurement.

drove back down to do some maintenance today, and add the replacement CPDs. 
before:









after:









p. helferi:









r. m. green:









new fish:


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

well after a month of neglect i have my work cut out for me fixing the tank. over half the p. helferi died, the stems are overgrown, and there is hair algae everywhere.









i trimmed the stems, cleaned the filter and pipes, and did a large WC. the algae is from lack of dosing, and lowered CO2, so it should stop growing now that ive addressed those issues. in the mean time ill speed up its death with some peroxide and excel spot dosing, and 13 amanos i got from petco. first time i bought em from a petco, im wondering how many die. they offer a 30 day warranty, so as long as i find the corpses, i get dead ones replaced. one already looks half dead, hes orange and uncoordinated (probably cuz they just got them today, and i asked if they were acclimated, the employee responded that he floated the bags for a few min before letting them loose).









oh, and i got a stonger powerhead to increase the flow in the tank


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

and some post-cleanup pics (lot of algae still to take care of though):
here is a FTS, you can see how the light is too short, and the sides are left shaded - 









new amanos (they are pretty big, i will say that) - 

















and one of the CPDs (they are hard to photograph, as they wont stay still) -


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## l8nite (Aug 29, 2012)

Keep us posted on the algae fight. Looks like you're making good progress though 

I kind of like the overgrown look...


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

the overgrown look is prefferable to the hackjob i did on it. but the hackjob stimulates new healthy growth (made possible by the increased CO2 and me being here to actually dose ferts), which should give me the well-kept manicured look i want. 
and it will look even better when my longfin german rams arrive tomorrow.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

the tank is recovering nicely from the neglect. however my plant biomass has gone down. i didnt think the loss of the leaves on the h. aragua and melting of most of my downoi would really be significant as they are both slow growers, but my tank has noticed. my nitrates were at 35 ppm. not dangerous for the fish, but i lost 3 amanos (got 3 more for free at petco cuz of their 30 day guarantee) before noticing and doing a water change. will cut my macro dosing down for a few more weeks.
but in other news, the longfin GBRs i got on wednesday have been hiding constantly so i could hardly catch a glimpse to see they are still alive. but just now i caught them in the front corner hanging out and got some awesome pics. they are my favorite fish right now. then i threw some thawed mysis in the tank and saw the male eat one. so now i know they are eating, and feel like they will do fine. now to start reading up on spawning rams...

pics of the longfin pair:


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

That's looking great Marco! The longfin rams are really handsome fish.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

thanks. im in love with them. after a few days they have finally started coming out from hiding when there isnt too much movement in the room. unfortunately for them they are in a college apartment with us 4 guys stomping around, but they are adjusting well enough. the CPDs got over it, and are not too shy anymore.


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## thebuddha (Jul 16, 2012)

hi,
did you get your rams online or local?
if online, where at?


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

i got them on aquabid.com
took me a few months of checking to finally get a pair.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

update shots:

FTS - 









male ram - 









c. furcata - 









r. colorata finally recovered - 









amano shrimp - 









d. diandra - 









h. aragua finally starting to heal -









CPDs all colored up and playful -


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## ThatGuyWithTheFish (Apr 29, 2012)

Dang, that GBR is _beautiful._ You remind me why I once really wanted them.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

thanks.
yeah they are awesome, but unfortunately are also sick. they arent eating and have distended anuses. probably some sort of parasite. im treating now, hopefully the will be ok.


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## Yankee (Jan 12, 2013)

ThatGuyWithTheFish said:


> Dang, that GBR is _beautiful._ You remind me why I once really wanted them.


I agree! This makes me want to start watching aquabid for a pair!


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## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

Look great, buddy! That Ram is just OUTSTANDING!!!!! Nice shot!


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

thanks.
he better be. that pair cost me an arm and a leg, which is why im doing everything to coax them to eat and trying to treat their parasites.


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## The Trigger (May 9, 2012)

Damn dude that ram is stunning


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## The Trigger (May 9, 2012)

Oh btw how is that female doing? She getting any better?


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## Mumford (Nov 12, 2012)

Man those fish are awesome, love the GBRs

How many CPDs do you have in there?


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

The Trigger said:


> Damn dude that ram is stunning





The Trigger said:


> Oh btw how is that female doing? She getting any better?


thanks.
no. unfortunately she seems to be getting worse. she isnt eating at all anymore. im gonna most likely get some levamisole this weekend. if they have camallanus worms, that will do it. most other parasites should respond to a parziquantel treatment. if the levamisole does nothing, ill turn to sulfathiozole as a hail mary because there is nothing else i can do. im really ripping out my hair trying to save her. and him too. he is also sick and exhibiting the same concave belly and distended anus, but not as far along. and he is still eating a little at least. 
if she dies, im getting a necropsy done to know what the **** is doing this.



Mumford said:


> Man those fish are awesome, love the GBRs
> 
> How many CPDs do you have in there?


thanks. they are a cool species.
there should be 24 CPDs. but counting them is impossible.


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## The Trigger (May 9, 2012)

@[email protected] said:


> thanks.
> no. unfortunately she seems to be getting worse. she isnt eating at all anymore. im gonna most likely get some levamisole this weekend. if they have camallanus worms, that will do it. most other parasites should respond to a parziquantel treatment. if the levamisole does nothing, ill turn to sulfathiozole as a hail mary because there is nothing else i can do. im really ripping out my hair trying to save her. and him too. he is also sick and exhibiting the same concave belly and distended anus, but not as far along. and he is still eating a little at least.
> if she dies, im getting a necropsy done to know what the **** is doing this


Well If you didn't live 2 hours away I'd say that if your female dies you can have one of mine. My male paired up with the other one so now they just tag team the other female, pestering her all day. She's lost most of her color because she's the subdominant female. She's a true German blue ram that was bred in Germany. She's the one on top in the picture. But I hope they both pull through and you won't have to get more


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

thank you for that kind gesture. but i dont want to plan about where to get a replacement female. i want this one, lol.
and if she dies, i wont be getting a new one til i know what killed her, and i know its gone from the tank.


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## alipper (Nov 6, 2012)

The Trigger said:


> Well If you didn't live 2 hours away I'd say that if your female dies you can have one of mine. My male paired up with the other one so now they just tag team the other female, pestering her all day. She's lost most of her color because she's the subdominant female. She's a true German blue ram that was bred in Germany. She's the one on top in the picture. But I hope they both pull through and you won't have to get more


Not to hijack thread, but wish you were closer because I'd take that female off your hands.

Sucks to hear that those GBRs are sick, they are beautiful.


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## The Trigger (May 9, 2012)

@[email protected] said:


> thank you for that kind gesture. but i dont want to plan about where to get a replacement female. i want this one, lol.
> and if she dies, i wont be getting a new one til i know what killed her, and i know its gone from the tank.


Lol I hear ya man.


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## The Trigger (May 9, 2012)

alipper said:


> Not to hijack thread, but wish you were closer because I'd take that female off your hands.
> 
> Sucks to hear that those GBRs are sick, they are beautiful.


Yeah if they lay eggs I can pretty much guarantee they will kill her. Ill figure something out


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## Mumford (Nov 12, 2012)

What temp is your tank at sir?


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

The Trigger said:


> Yeah if they lay eggs I can pretty much guarantee they will kill her. Ill figure something out


dont you have any spare tanks?
or an LFS near you? since she is really drab atm, they probably wont wanna give you store credit, but theyd likely accept a free fish, especially if you explain to them that a week in a tank without other rams harassing her and she will be colorful again.



Mumford said:


> What temp is your tank at sir?


mine? 80F


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## The Trigger (May 9, 2012)

@[email protected] said:


> dont you have any spare tanks?
> or an LFS near you? since she is really drab atm, they probably wont wanna give you store credit, but theyd likely accept a free fish, especially if you explain to them that a week in a tank without other rams harassing her and she will be colorful again.


Yeah there is and I could. Only thing is I want to make sure she goes to someone who know what they're doing. Not some idiot that will buy her and throw her in a goldfish tank because she looks cool haha.


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## Mumford (Nov 12, 2012)

@[email protected] said:


> mine? 80F


Yes yours 

I was trying to figure out stocking for my tank and people were saying these need low 70's to survive. Just curious. 

Any updates on your rams?


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

these? the rams, CPDs, or amanos?
the rams like warm water. the CPDs probably find it a little warm, but i saw spawning behavior 2 days ago, so i dont think they have an issue.

i became more and more convinced its camullanus. i just added levamisole a few min ago.


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## The Trigger (May 9, 2012)

Mumford said:


> Yes yours
> 
> I was trying to figure out stocking for my tank and people were saying these need low 70's to survive. Just curious.
> 
> Any updates on your rams?


No rams need warmer water. Mine are at 80f. I know some that keep them even warmer. Like 85


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## Mumford (Nov 12, 2012)

@[email protected] said:


> these? the rams, CPDs, or amanos?
> the rams like warm water. the CPDs probably find it a little warm, but i saw spawning behavior 2 days ago, so i dont think they have an issue.
> 
> i became more and more convinced its camullanus. i just added levamisole a few min ago.


AHHHHH SORRY!

Yes it was the CPDs I was inquiring about. Thanks for the info 

Hopefully they get better soon, they're gorgeous


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

they should. i just saw a worm sticking out of the female. which means that i got the diagnosis right and the levamisole is now causing paralysis in the worms and they shouldnt be a problem for much longer. 
look at the ugly sob:









and here are some other updates on the tank:
fts









male CPDs









erios sending up flower spike (about to remove em)









new b. velvet leaf 4









new b. cherish


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## The Trigger (May 9, 2012)

Good to hear your rams are getting better. And the tank is looking great!


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

they are definitely getting better. just got back from hanging out and tried feeding em some of the live blackworms they didnt really care about yesterday, they were going nuts for em. lost count of how many they ate. i stopped cuz i got tired of digging through the soggy paper towels for em. the female has a ton of worms sticking out now (im guessing thats from them being passed), but after feeding her belly looked less concave.


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Nice work on figuring out what was ailing your rams... They look nice and really pop in your tank.


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## Scottyhorse (Mar 13, 2013)

Any updates on the tank?

Also Trigger, I could probably take your ram. I've got a mated pair in my tank right now, but I'll be moving them to their own tank soon and there will be an empty spot for her to fill 

Also, Marko, would you ever sell some of that Downoi? I've really been wanting to get some, but I haven't found it anywhere online.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

got back from spring break. to this:








most of the c. furcata was dead, and a lot of the r. m. green was so leggy and defoliated and crappy i threw most of it out.

here is the tank post cleanup. the c. furcata is only in the front temporarily to help it regrow:


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## Mumford (Nov 12, 2012)

*Marko's College 20 Gal Long: post spring break 3/25/13*

Man what a bummer 

Are you going to rescape at all or just work with what you have?


- Mumford


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

so did a bit of a change. added h. brown in front of the r. m. green, put l. red where the c. furcata was (have a few stems left to grow back out), and got my hands on some e. hydropiper for a pre-foreground.


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## Mumford (Nov 12, 2012)

*Marko's College 20 Gal Long: 4/7/13*

Looking like its recovering!!


- Mumford


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

so im having some issues with the plants. the e. parkeri, e. hydropiper, and b. japonica have melted a bit. some of each is still alive though. i think its cuz i was using too much peroxide and glutaraldehyde to try and get rid of the remaining algae. ironically, this significant loss of plant mass (from the japonica) will likely cause the algae to start coming back for a while... 

also im thinking about getting a d. dario (scarlet badis) or pair for this tank. anybody have any thoughts? the water is good, its just a question of the ram and CPDs being an issue or not. the ram leaves the danios alone, and is a very finicky eater, so he wont be a problem. and i understand boraras are suitable tankmates, and CPDs are very similar.


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

I always had trouble getting the food to them rather than them being picky eaters. They do prefer live or frozen over freeze dried. Main problem is other fish taking their food. I actually used a syringe sucked up a worm and dropped it right in front of them otherwise my neons would get to them.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

no, thats not an issue. the CPDs keep some room between themselves and the big fish. lol
he just has anorexia.

since i was having an issue with CO2 as well as Mg, i of course developed a good amount of algae in this tank. but hopefully now it will start to get under control, as ive had good CO2 for 2 days, and i THINK the l. red is perking up. new growth has been smaller and green, but one of the growth tips turned from green to a brownish color with red veins - closer to its healthier shade. if the rest of the stems color back up ill take it as a sign that ive fixed my CO2 problem, at least partially. it may be another week til i can tell if new growth on my plants is healthy or not.

also, i bought 6 orange shrimp and put them in the tank. they are neocards, so im hoping they are able to breed for me in here.


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## fishboy199413 (Jan 20, 2010)

Wow that is a berried shrimp! The tank looks great. How many cpds do you have and have they bred for you?


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

its a female, but she isnt berried (in person you could see the undercarriage was not full of eggs). it does look that way in the photo, but its a phone camera shot. they were bought on sunday, 2 of them were saddled, none were berried.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

a shrimp still lives! most of the amanos and 1 of the orange neos kicked it over the past 2 weeks. the water is crap. but now its improving since ive been doing ro wcs (i hope). here is a pic of the lil guy:









here is the h. brown on 4/28, see how crappy it looks (and this is a very hardy plant):









and now it looks a bit better:


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

now its clear that at least the hygro is definitely improving:


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

after the move and some new plants, im hoping to get this tank back on track. 

FTS:









l. red:









h. palustris:









unfortunately, the CPDs fared surprisingly poorly with the move, i lost 3 so far... but i did loose one right before, so they may be ill and the move further weakened them. i wont add any fish til i dont have any losses for at least a month, to make sure i dont just keep an infection going.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

here is the tank clearly recovering:


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

finally my aquarium is almost back to its full glory. everything is growing nicely, and colorful. the p. helferi is making an especially nice comeback.of course, im going away for 2 weeks soon... but i doubt there will be much damage from that. ill just decrease the photoperiod to limit the need for nutrients so that it can make do without me dosing. 
note - the photos are a bit hazy looking, cuz my CO2 is misting. thats why everything seems a bit greyer than in real life.

FTS:









ludwigia sp red:









hygrohpila sp aragua:









didiplis diandra:









pogostemon helferi:









rotala sp butterfly:









poecilia wingei tiger male:









poecilia wingei tiger pair:









poecilia wingei tiger fry:









snail running rampant:









neocaridina david 'orange':


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## Bserve (Nov 4, 2012)

Yo Marko, any updates?


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

Bserve said:


> Yo Marko, any updates?


nothing has really changed, except the endler population going up exponentially.
the tank is only so-so right now. 
im having problems with my kh being very high, so when i do a water change, it swings a lot (due to my AS) and then my CO2 swings. so im doing only tiny water changes and top offs, and as a result stopped dosing except once a week for each solution to prevent overdoing it. 
my CO2 ran out recently without CO2 my ph is at 8.0...:icon_mad:
going back to college in a little over a week, so im not gonna bother with the tank til after the move. 
and i may not keep it up. if the gh in RU is still as high as it was at the end of last year, i will not be able to use it for water changes, ill need RODI water. and if im gonna use RO, i may as well have a reef. which is what i decided. if the gh or kh are too high in burnswick, the tank will be converted into a SPS-heavy reef (and my bank account will cry).
my 2 ADA30Cs are staying planted for sure though.


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