# Frosty's 10 Gallon Setup



## FrostyNYC

Specs: 
Tank: 10 Gallon All-Glass
Lighting: 40 Watt USA Satellite 6500k/10000k
Substrate: Eco-Complete
Hardscape: Zebra rock
Ferts/Dosing: EI w/dry ferts plus Flourish and Excel, but while emersed just misting with diluted Miracle-Gro and Flourish Excel
Filtration: Toms Mini-Canister (later changed over to an Aquaclear HOB)

Flora: HC & HM
Fauna: None so far

Set up this tank on February 25, 2008, so it's been a little under a month since I put it together. I planted an HC lawn in the front, and purchased some HM to use as sort of a "backup" if the HC failed, which I suspected it might. I planted HM to the front right and also in the background. I intend to plant heavily with stem plants in the two back corners once I fill this thing up with water, with HM acting as a midground and HC as a foreground. I planned to grow these two emersed for about 8 weeks, at which point I hoped to fill the tank.

Here's some pics. I'm running into a little problem, which I'll discuss in my next post.

Pic 1: Tank as of 3.9.08 (2 Weeks after startup)









Pic 2: Overhead shot as of 3.9.08 (2 Weeks after startup) (Added a little more HM to front-right and middle)









Pic 3: Overhead shot as of 2.25.08 (Date of Startup)


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## Ladykatze

Nice tank. I like the zebra rock.


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## Bk828

zebra rock does look nice.. I wouldve loved to use it but my lfs charges about $10 for a small stone...

So whats the problem you are running into/ran into


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## BiscuitSlayer

FrostyNYC -

Thats going to be a sweet little tank! The only change I would make is adding a background so that you don't see the receptacle and cords behind the tank.


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## FrostyNYC

BiscuitSlayer said:


> FrostyNYC -
> 
> Thats going to be a sweet little tank! The only change I would make is adding a background so that you don't see the receptacle and cords behind the tank.


I actually tried using a black plastic garbage bag, cut to fit, but the bag I selected was of flimsy plastic and it just didnt look right. I'm going to have to find a heavy-duty black bag... or bite the bullet and paint it.


All - Thanks for the comments. I actually ended up moving the rocks slightly because I felt there was too much of a horizontal line going on, especially on the right side of the tank. Annnnnnd I ended up filling the tank, for a couple reasons. The HC was starting to die, somehow. After spreading out very well for weeks, something bad was happening and it started to turn brown and melt. I filled the tank, started dosing EI, Excel, and DIY CO2 and the dying-off seems to have abated, but I lost a lot of HC. Who knew that emersed plants could just melt? I also ripped out a bunch of HM from the rear of the tank to make room for background plants, and I added a handful of young red ramshorn snails to eat up the dead HC and start pumping out ammonia for my cycle. (Tho I did seed my filter with floss from another tank) I'll post pics soon.


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## Bk828

What plants you plan to use for the back??


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## PhiShY92

very nice loving the rocks


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## FrostyNYC

Well, I filled this guy up with water and added plants about a week or two ago. I'm dosing EI with Rex's dry ferts and all is well so far. I had to break down my 5 gallon because the sig other won't let me have two tanks in the apartment  Oh well. I transferred the plants from the 5 gallon over, with the exception of my TON of java moss in that tank... which is still sitting in there until I figure out what to do with it.

At the rear left is stargrass, then tons of vals that I pulled from my 5 gallon (over 30 plants/plantlets), some ludwigia repens, blyxa japonica at the front left by the rocks, a tiny bit of java moss and HM at the left by the rocks, HC spread throughout the foreground, HM at the right in a bushy mound, and a little HM in the middle rear, and finally my rubin sword centerpiece. 

Not at ALL what I expected or planned for the tank to look like. I had wanted a background of stargrass, myaca, hornwort, and a foreground of equally small leaved plants. But, then I found out I had to break down my 5 gallon and do something with my vals, and then I fell in love with that sword... and now this is what I have. 









Some vals that got transplanted into the 10 gal:









I want the ludwigia to grow into more of a pink mass. I may replace it with a rotala if it doesn't fill in the way I want it to. Hopefully the star grass takes off and fills in the left... Once my stems root, I'd like to get rid of a lot of the vallisneria, as there's a lot of it. The tank just looks too messy to me. Also, I'm VERY unhappy with the HC. It just didn't work out, unfortunately. The last week before I filled the tank, half the HC melted while emersed. What's curious is that when it was melting, it was sending out little what appeared to be seed-pods. And now, I have this growing in the most unsightly piles of dead HC:










If you look in the middle of the brown dead HC, you'll see tiny plantlets growing. Is it baby HC from seeds? It's definitely a vascular plant of some form. Sorry for the blurriness but they're TINY and there's about 30 of them. Hopefully they grow and nothing eats them. PS - As you can see, that section of HC is done-for. Anything that started melting before I filled the tank just got worse after I filled it. Fortunately, there are other sections doing well and the HM is doing great, so if I end up with an HM carpet instead of HC, its not the end of the world.


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## CL

i have had my emersed hm do that. they are like little leaves that grow into another plant, they come of of the dead leaves


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## Ladykatze

It looks great. But then I like the zebra rocks as well - Both looks were nice, but I like your little garden you have going on in the new tank!
Cheryl


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## FrostyNYC

The zebra rocks are still there, just covered by plants now. Do you think I crammed enough plants in this tank? :icon_cool I'm making up for the 6 months I spent with only java moss and vallisneria.

Speaking of which... check out my java moss' sexual reproduction! Is this sexual reproduction? If you look closely, you can see little spores on stems emerging from the moss. They're brownish.


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## Ladykatze

I knew you had left the rocks in, since I can still see them in the first picture! 

I have no idea what your java moss is doing, but someone who knows a lot about this hobby is sure to see the posting and tell all of us if that is the Java Moss reproducing.

Great job!


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## sea-horsea

whats HC and HM?


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## Darkblade48

sea-horsea said:


> whats HC and HM?


Hemianthus callitrichoides and Hemianthus micranthemoides, respectively


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## FrostyNYC

It's been one week, and there is absolutely noticeable growth. To me at least.  The Ludwigia repens, which I thought hadnt grown a single leaf, apparently grew an inch this week. At least. I only noticed when looking at last week's photos. The stargrass has obvious growth, which looks amazing. Stargrass has the habit of turning black and hideous when it's transplanted and/or damaged. Every little bruise turned to necropic black when I planted it, which really sucks for such a delicate plant (it's nearly as soft as guppy grass). Anyway, the new stargrass growth is a very soft bright green. Plus it's branching in everything direction. I'm so happy with this plant! 

The blyxa is also surprising me. I thought I would love this plant after seeing it in so many tanks on this forum. In my own tank, I didnt love it so much, to tell you the truth. But it's grown about 5 new leaves each this week, and it looks much, much better than before. The last tank it was grown in had higher light, I believe, so it was very red/brown. In my tank, the new leaves are green with a pink overtone. 

The HC has changed to submersed growth and the leaves are really oblong and neon green. The HM is looking pale, and some new growth is completely white. It's got to be a symptom of missing ferts, but I'm dosing EI plus supplemental Excel, and I have a 2 litre DIY CO2 bottle running. I dose 2 ml of Flourish comprehensive three times a week. You would think that would be enough iron. Why are the new leaves white and decaying? 

Oh, and I found clado growing in my HM. And I'm getting quite a bit of hair algae on my vals. Gotta cut back my lighting. I've been leaving it on 10 hours a day sometimes. 

So here's a tank update pic, and some photos of my ramshorns. Current tank occupants are 2 amano shrimp, 2 otos, 2 juvenile platies, 6 small red ramshorns, and about 20 baby ramshorns that were born this week. Oh, and I have limpets. Interesting things.


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## Bk828

Tank is looking great. lol you sure you got that many rams and not 1000000?? lol they are worse than rabbits. Are those the ones you got from the guy i directed you to??


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## FrostyNYC

Bk828 said:


> Tank is looking great. lol you sure you got that many rams and not 1000000?? lol they are worse than rabbits. Are those the ones you got from the guy i directed you to??


Yep. Props to you for the ramshorns I was looking for. I'm really happy with them, and they've doubled in size in the last two weeks. I dont think I have 1000000 yet... but soon.  They do breed exponentially. I'm battling some pond snails right now tho, and just crushing them with my long-handled tweezers whenever I see one.


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## thejoie

I love your tank!

I just set up a 10 gallon tank and got the Satellite fixture as well.

I assume you switched out the original bulb and got the Daylight bulb? I'm considering doing that now. I just need a good place to buy the bulb.


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## Ladykatze

It looks great! :bounce: Just like I expected it to! Keep up the good work, and please keep us updated.


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## FrostyNYC

Cheryl,
Thanks! And hey, shouldn't you be updating your signature with the 75 gallon? :icon_roll


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## Ladykatze

I will, but there have been some complications. This evening is the first time I have touched a computer since last Sunday night


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## FrostyNYC

Well, its been a couple weeks. I pulled out all the HM in my tank because it was mysteriously turning white and developing holes in its leaves, with lots of dead leaves under the new growth. I had trimmed it several times, but eventually got tired of it and pulled it out. I stuck my stargrass trimmings in the center midground and hopefully that will grow in somewhat bushy. 

Then, I had a little battle with hair algae, which I've described in another recent post. I pulled out a lot of corkscrew val (this stuff grows like crazy) and had to pull my ludwigia repens and bleach dip it. 

I made a trip to a LFS that has $2.99 bunch plants (Buy 3 get one free), and got ludwigia natans, wisteria, red necaea, and rotala rotifundia. I figured the necaea would die, but it that was my free pick.  Surprisingly, the necaea is growing, but not surprisingly, the new growth is green/pink and not the shocking red that it was when I bought it. I just stuck it on the side of the tank anyhow, and it's blocking my stargrass. Not sure I'm keeping it.

Also, I want to give props to Charpark, who RAOKed me 20+- endler fry. I'm really excited for these guys to grow up and color up. I'm feeding them hikari guppy food, hikari flake food, and frozen brine shrimp right now. I should really get some brine shrimp eggs and a microworm culture or something.

Below are a pic of the tank, of the new green necaea growth, and my rubin sword's growth. It's incredible how magenta the new leaves are on that plant.


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## Ladykatze

I like the reds, and I'm excited to see what your Endlers look like. This has come a long way from your emersed photos!:thumbsup: 

Cheryl


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## FrostyNYC

*Frosty's 10 Gallon Setup (Updated 5.14.08)*

Well its been almost two weeks. I'm really struggling with the stargrass -- it keeps turning black. It does GREAT as long as I dont touch it. But if I trim it, prune it, replant it, whatever... it gets grey/black sploches on it that don't go away. It does grow fast, and I love how much it branches, but does anyone know of a similar plant that won't discolor when its unhappy?

Anywho, my rotala rotifundiola is really taking off, and I love it. I also won my war on hair algae, I think thanks to Excel overdosing and my new HUGE japonica shrimp. I'll post more pics soon, and I'll try to get some endlers shots (one male has color already, the rest of the fry are too small). Here's shot with some rotala, ludwigia, and vals.


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## Green Leaf Aquariums

Wow Frosty you sure know how to make those reds pop out.
I love it


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## FrostyNYC

Orlando said:


> Wow Frosty you sure know how to make those reds pop out.
> I love it


Thanks, Orlando, but I can only take credit for the rubin sword and the rotala. The red Nesaea is turning green under my light. I'm actually supposed to mail that red plant out to someone who's been looking for it. 40 watts even under a 10 gallon just isnt enough for Nesaea. 

That pink rotala though, is turning out to be one of my favorite plants.


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## Bk828

looking great. I had the same issue with stargrass, it would branch out and grow bushy but the growth was 2 fast. If i didnt trim the bush the center/lower part of the plant would turn pale, and if i did trim it, some leaves would turn pale/black. I switched out this delicate plant for other bushy stem plants. 

I also had the red nesea in my tank for a while and it didnt really grow as i expected. Im sure you will get a nice trade for some other interesting plants on the SNS.


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## charpark

Hey Frosty, just noticed your post...great set-up!  Hope you're enjoying the Endlers, looks like you've got a great home for them. Looking forward to seeing them color up quite a bit. Perhaps someone can confirm their class or whatever when they mature. 

I'm sure you've got enough, but please let me know if you need more fry or plants later on. My Endlers are still at it and trying to take over the tank. 

This goes for anyone in the NYC area as well looking for some free fry. It's great having a local community for trading and raoks, and only possible thanks to the TPT forums!


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## NstyN8

Nice looking tank! What's the plant in the right foreground corner?
The rubin looks nice. You'll be moving it to the back real soon. They become monsters! Unless there is a dwarf variety or something...


N8


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## FrostyNYC

Charpark - Thank you again for the ROAK fry. I tried to catch the big male to put him in a tic-tac box to take a picture of him. I learned that trick on endlersr.us ... unfortunately, the little guy took to cover in the plants and there's no way getting any tiny fish out of that plant cover... I'll post of a pic of him once he's fully grown but he looks P class endler to me... but I'm no expert by any means. We'll see when they're grown -- I'll post a pic for the endler experts to look at.

NstyN8 - Good eye! It's actually what's left of my Ludwigia repens. I went through a terrible hair algae attack and I bleach-dipped the repens and cut off the entire bottom half. Whatever was left, I stuck into the front right, which is where I originally had a large bush of HM (it was turning pale and getting holes in it, so I tossed it). When the repens grows out, I'll either move it to replace the stargrass that I'm tiring of, or I'll give it away. But yea, I was wondering if anyone would notice that I used a background plant as a foreground plant :thumbsup:


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## FrostyNYC

Mini update:

My red ramshorn snails have developed a taste for blyxa. They're meticulously stripping every new young leaf from the plants. Its so frustrating having to choose between a plant you really like and an animal you really like!

This is a perfect opportunity to start a new tank!  I've been wanting to start a 5 gallon shrimp tank. But should I move the blyxa to a new tank, or all my ramshorns to a new tank? (There are about 30 snails at this point, most are really TINY but they are baby red rams) Probably going to have to move the snails, since I wouldnt be dosing the shrimp tank or going high light. Now to convince my significant other that I need a second tank... this is the hard part.


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## FrostyNYC

I'm doing something right! My biggest amano is berried!  I wish I could set up more tanks and try to breed them. It kills me that all the babies are going to die. First pic is with flash, second pic without flash.


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## Chrisinator

Wow! That's awesome! The second pic doesn't look like it was taken with flash. My amano would never do that...


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## FrostyNYC

Chrisinator said:


> Wow! That's awesome! The second pic doesn't look like it was taken with flash. My amano would never do that...


It was the first pic that was taken with flash. 

That female amano is fearless. She takes food right out of my hand. I've had her climb all over my hand when I've put it in to do tank maintenance. My endlers peck my hand all over too when I'm trying to move plants around. Its impossible to get anything done.


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## Chrisinator

Whoops  .


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## FrostyNYC

Well, all my blyxa is dead. I thought the ramshorns were eating it cause they were starving, but they were apparently eating it cause it was dying. 

I trimmed my rotala rotifundiola. I love this beautiful pink plant. But, its getting quite a number of holes in it. I've seen this happen to someone else, and it was apparently a CO2 issue. I badly want pressurized CO2. Oy.

The amano lost all her eggs. She carried them for over a week. They all turned yellow, as shown in the pics below. The endlers are feisty and learned that they could pec the eggs off her. One male endler followed the amano relentlessly, and would turn upside down to swim underneath her and pick an egg off, or at least attempt to. It was a constant chase. Occasionally, he'd peck her back, and she wouldnt even move. Of course, she's bigger than this endler will EVER grow. She knows who's boss.

On a completely different note, Seasons 1 through 3 of Lost is amazing, and Season 4 sucks. Im very disappointed.


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## FrostyNYC

And a pic of the baby ramshorns during feeding time. I keep pieces of pre-sliced zucchini frozen so I can just pop up out, click it, and drop it in the tank. The otos, shrimp, snails, and endlers all love it. The couple pond snails I have in the tank arent as attracted to it, though, for anyone looking for a way to get rid of pond snails. But if its ramshorns you're looking to collect, zucchini is the way to go.


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## FrostyNYC

Here's an updated full tank shot. Looking back since I first got the rotala rotifundiola, I'm shocked at how it tripled in size over the last 2 months. More than tripled in size! I just trimmed back the wisteria down to almost nothing. Also, I took this picture a few days ago, and this morning I pulled out what HC I had growing, and spread out the new E. tennellus I purchased. There's two new runners since I put it in the tank last weekend. I also pulled out the struggling/dying stargrass in the back left. I'll let the vals fill in that corner.

I should mention, I switched to pressurized paintball CO2, and I have constant pearling now. I lovvvvvve it. I'm using the red sea paintball system. Not the cheapest, but definitely the easiest. My endlers have started reproducing. I'll probably have a population explosion within a month. Oh, and if anyone local wants some free baby red ramshorn snails, please let me know. I have too many.


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## CL

Nice to see an update. Your tank is doing well. I bet you love that CO2. I'm getting my pressurized system soon, and I cant wait!


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## Bk828

Tank looking good. lol cant believe these are the same snails you got from my friend that time.. they multiply faster than rabbits.


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## rovor24

Awesome looking tank. I really like how your rotala rotifundiola is turning out. Can you take clipping of those? If you have spare let me know. Also, can I achieve the same outcome without using CO2 diffuser? I already dropped $200 on my 10gal set up and don't want to waste anymore money. I'm using 38W CF light with Marineland 100 filter rated for 20 gal with occasional Flourish dousing. Is this too much water flow for planted tank?


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## FrostyNYC

clwatkins10 said:


> Nice to see an update. Your tank is doing well. I bet you love that CO2. I'm getting my pressurized system soon, and I cant wait!


Whatever you do, make sure you get a drop checker. That alone, is a worthwhile investment, even for people using DIY CO2, in my opinion.


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## FrostyNYC

rovor24 said:


> Awesome looking tank. I really like how your rotala rotifundiola is turning out. Can you take clipping of those? If you have spare let me know. Also, can I achieve the same outcome without using CO2 diffuser? I already dropped $200 on my 10gal set up and don't want to waste anymore money. I'm using 38W CF light with Marineland 100 filter rated for 20 gal with occasional Flourish dousing. Is this too much water flow for planted tank?


Thanks for the compliment. It's a work in progress. No CO2 diffuser? Are you running pressurized or DIY? What are you using to get the CO2 into your tank? I was using a nano glass diffuser while using DIY CO2, and now I'm using a reactor that came with the Red Sea kit. 

I think water flow is a good thing, especially considering how much all the leaves and plants are going to cut down the current in the tank. Just keep delicate plants away from the outflow of the filter. To keep surface movement down, I always keep my tank topped off to the max, and I usually run my filter on its lowest setting. I'm using an Aquaclear HOB rated for tanks up to 20 gallons (or was it 30?). I do use a sponge over the filter intake which somewhat reduces flow, but more importantly, keeps endler fry, shrimp, and tiny snails out of the filter. Big filters are great when it comes to media choices. I love having lots of room to personalize. 

The first four inches or so of my rotala is a mess of holes and looks terrible, because my plants suffered for several weeks when I didnt realize that my DIY CO2 bottles werent producing as much CO2 as I thought. I thought it was a nutrient deficiency, but it was actually carbon that they were lacking. So I really need to cut them down and replant the tops and throw out the ugly bottoms. When I do have some nice cuttings, I'll let you know. I only paid $3 for the bunch that I got at a LFS, though... of course, they were much smaller back then.


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## rovor24

FrostyNYC said:


> Thanks for the compliment. It's a work in progress. No CO2 diffuser? Are you running pressurized or DIY? What are you using to get the CO2 into your tank? I was using a nano glass diffuser while using DIY CO2, and now I'm using a reactor that came with the Red Sea kit.
> 
> I think water flow is a good thing, especially considering how much all the leaves and plants are going to cut down the current in the tank. Just keep delicate plants away from the outflow of the filter. To keep surface movement down, I always keep my tank topped off to the max, and I usually run my filter on its lowest setting. I'm using an Aquaclear HOB rated for tanks up to 20 gallons (or was it 30?). I do use a sponge over the filter intake which somewhat reduces flow, but more importantly, keeps endler fry, shrimp, and tiny snails out of the filter. Big filters are great when it comes to media choices. I love having lots of room to personalize.
> 
> The first four inches or so of my rotala is a mess of holes and looks terrible, because my plants suffered for several weeks when I didnt realize that my DIY CO2 bottles werent producing as much CO2 as I thought. I thought it was a nutrient deficiency, but it was actually carbon that they were lacking. So I really need to cut them down and replant the tops and throw out the ugly bottoms. When I do have some nice cuttings, I'll let you know. I only paid $3 for the bunch that I got at a LFS, though... of course, they were much smaller back then.




I attempted a DIY CO2, but I don't think I'm getting much out of it. I run the line to the intake of my filter and let the impeller break the CO2 into tiny bubbles for me. I think I will remove the DIY CO2 soon and look for another way of getting CO2 into my tank. Seeing from your post, CO2 really make a big difference. Well, that and skills . I see if I can budget for CO2 system. For now I'm dousing with Flourish and Excel, should I be using anything else? Also, how do you get rid of black spots on plants (anubius for mine)? I think they might be green spot algae but not sure on how to get rid of them. Can't seem to rub them off.


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## FrostyNYC

rovor24 said:


> I attempted a DIY CO2, but I don't think I'm getting much out of it. I run the line to the intake of my filter and let the impeller break the CO2 into tiny bubbles for me. I think I will remove the DIY CO2 soon and look for another way of getting CO2 into my tank. Seeing from your post, CO2 really make a big difference. Well, that and skills . I see if I can budget for CO2 system. For now I'm dousing with Flourish and Excel, should I be using anything else? Also, how do you get rid of black spots on plants (anubius for mine)? I think they might be green spot algae but not sure on how to get rid of them. Can't seem to rub them off.


You can absolutely have a beautiful tank with a DIY CO2 setup. Just make sure to change the yeast/sugar solution every couple weeks, even if its still bubbling. The solution really only lasts 2 to 3 weeks, unless you're using a jello recipe varient. I've made the mistake of leaving the same yeast solution for over a month, because it was still bubbling, but I didnt realize that the bubbles were far fewer than a full-strength solution since the change was so gradual. I'd definitely go with DIY CO2 rather than no CO2. 

Depending on your lighting, Flourish and Excel may or may not be all you need to dose. Those two dose micro-nutrients and carbon, respectively, but don't dose macro-nutrients. If you have high lighting, you may need to dose NPK (Nitrogen, Phosphorus, and Potassium).

You may be stuck with the green spot aglae. Try a rubbing with some paper towels or a very soft toothbrush or algae pad. You don't want to hurt your anubias of course. I've heard that nerite snails can eat green spot algae, but that algae is really stubborn and I doubt you'll be able to get it off the leaves. I've never grown anubias (I like fast growth), so Im not the best person to be handing out advice on them.


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## CL

this thread has really turned into a help thread  So anything new happening in the tank?


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## FrostyNYC

Haha. It has. I'm going to rename the thread "Newbie Q&A".

Tank Updates: As I previously mentioned, I pulled out the meager HC, replaced it with E. tenellus. It looks much cleaner now. In the week and a half or so since I planted it, I have 2 new runners with baby plantlets popping up. The leaf shape has changed from sort of oblong to very narrow and about 3 inches tall. I assume it's transitioning from emergent to submergent growth. This grass lawn will compliment all the vallisneria in my background, so I'm pleased. The HC used to come up all the time and was a pain. I won't miss it.

I have an empty spot in my back left area where I had my stargrass that I pulled out a week ago. I'm looking for some local sunset hygro to fill that spot, as I figured the pink veining will compliment my ludwigia and rotala.

I'll post a pic soon.


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## FrostyNYC

Growth on the R. rotifundiola really took off this week, I suspect due to the pressurized CO2. Also, as I previously mentioned, I ripped up my HC and tossed it in the trash and bought a pot of E. tenellus. I divided the plant in two, as there were two rosettes in the pot with a ton of leaves. I cut off about half the leaves, as they were all emersed growth anyway. All these little baby plants below have grown within the last two weeks. I'm shocked and THRILLED at this growth. This sure beats watching my HC slowly die and grow upward toward the light over the last 3 months. I only wonder if I should have went with the micro/red version of tenellus instead. Maybe I'll switch over in a few months, since I'm confident that I could grow it in my tank. I'm also aching to try that new(ish) Echinodorus vesuvius plant. 

Also, to state the obvious, the Rotala needs a trim. I'm sort of afraid to touch it, after I massacred the wisteria on the right and replanted it, and it hasnt grown an inch since then. Gulp.

As always, suggestions and constructive criticism is welcome.


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## CL

very nice growth you got there


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## FrostyNYC

Needed a trim. What do you think?

*Before:* 









*After:*









*Closeup of the After:*


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## fish_fasinated

that is some insane growth, got my R.R to gor 20+" in my 20 tall, but running low light that forced the lower leaves to drop off.


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## FrostyNYC

fish_fasinated said:


> that is some insane growth, got my R.R to gor 20+" in my 20 tall, but running low light that forced the lower leaves to drop off.


I got holes in the lower leaves of my R.r. because of a lack of CO2 a month or so ago. I was overdosing ferts thinking that was the issue, but it was CO2 all along. Since I was pressurized, I'm getting 2 inches of growth a week, plus lots of branching. 

I'm curious why you let it grow to 20" though. Now that I trimmed, I'm so much happier with the tank, and there's so much more light.


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## Bk828

great job frosty. Looks soo much better


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## fish_fasinated

FrostyNYC said:


> I'm curious why you let it grow to 20" though. Now that I trimmed, I'm so much happier with the tank, and there's so much more light.


 lol it grew 20" because my tank is 20longx10deepx*22high* i just didnt trim it till a couple days ago. that and i wanted to see just how high it would grow.

the only problem im really having is because i only have 1.5wpg it grows up not out. i will eventually be going to a higher light output as im eventually going to a 25 long as this tank is a pain to plant. just ahve to go one thing at a time.


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## FrostyNYC

Wow. That really is very very tall for a planted tank. Especially when it comes to stems. I'd probably end up with nothing but vals, swords, and lotuses. Nothing that grows up and needs frequent trimming.

I let my rotala grow as long as I did because it really starts branching heavily once it reaches the water surface. 1.5 wpg on your tank is an issue too because its so deep. 1.5 gallon on a 12" high tank beats 1.5 gallon on a 22" high tank for sure.


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## FrostyNYC

Bk828 said:


> great job frosty. Looks soo much better


Thank you


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## fish_fasinated

ya, the stand i have is wide enough, old stereo stand with shelves removed and side pieces left, for a 24 inch fixture. I'm leaning to wards the hagen t5 HO double bulb fixture right now. looks pretty good and once i switch to a 25 long ill have my lighting. like i said one piece at a time.

i also replant the clippings to give the illusion of bushy lol


----------



## FrostyNYC

E. tenellus carpet is filling in nicely. It's probably too tall/broad-leaved for this 10 gallon tank, but I like it anyway. I'm a fan of grass-like carpets, and I think I'll give hairgrass a shot one day, as I've never tried it. I think I'm going to add some wood to this. Probably something branching--maybe manzanita. 

A question -- Anyone know what kind of swordplant I have? I bought it from Petsmart as a rubin, and it looked like a rubin up until the last four leaves or so, which are extremely long and thin, very lance-shaped. See photo below.


----------



## FrostyNYC

Well, I did a major rescape and I'm ROAKing out all the extra vals plus some rotala (see my post in swap and shop). 

What do you guys think? What should I change? I definitely want to hear some opinions. Note that this is only 3 hours old, so of course the plants need to readjust to their new locations. The only thing I didnt move was most of the E. tenellus in the front. I didnt feel like dealing with floating carpet plants all over the place. I feel that I need more rockwork on the right, and more branches to the lower middle. No?


----------



## CobraGuppy

Wow, LOVE that branch. Your sword is also really beautiful.

I would suggest you put a different plant on the right side, it seems like you have a lot of vals lol.

Maybe a small leaf plant that would add contrast next to the sword?


----------



## Tex Gal

I agree with CobraGuppy. Unless you want a mono tank of all grasses you might want to add a different leaf texture. I miss you wisteria you had in there. It added a little variety. Love your branch and rocks.


----------



## FrostyNYC

CobraGuppy said:


> Wow, LOVE that branch. Your sword is also really beautiful.
> 
> I would suggest you put a different plant on the right side, it seems like you have a lot of vals lol.
> 
> Maybe a small leaf plant that would add contrast next to the sword?


I was trying to use the vals up! I have EIGHTY that I pulled out when I rescaped this tank. Yes. 80! So yeah, I still have too many, and I'll pull the vals out of the front right and front left when I figure out what I want there instead. 

Thank you for your compliments, btw.  The sword is really growing in nicely now and I was saddened to cut away 6 inches of roots when I moved it. The thing has massive root structure. The leaves are really coming in an interesting long thin shape, and hopefully it'll fill out with even more crimson/magenta leaves. I was thinking of contrasting it with something bright green, but you may have a point with a smaller-leaved plant for contrast as well. Any suggestions? I don't like putting stem plants that grow too quickly right at the front of the tank, as I hate trimming every week.


----------



## FrostyNYC

Tex Gal said:


> I agree with CobraGuppy. Unless you want a mono tank of all grasses you might want to add a different leaf texture. I miss you wisteria you had in there. It added a little variety. Love your branch and rocks.


I actually massacred the wisteria during a trim, replanted it, and it never grew back. I do like the way wisteria looks. It reminds me of windelov, which is on my list of plants that I want to try one day.


----------



## Tex Gal

When you say bright green I think of bacopa, stargrass, giant baby tears. The first two could go on the sides. All three grow kinda fast. You could always used the annubias bateri gold. They grow slowly and are a beautiful color. Ranunculus is a bright plant that stays shorter and is great in the foreground. I love the look of Elatine triandra but I've never had it. 

Just a few ideas for you.


----------



## FrostyNYC

Very good ideas, Tex Gal. I've actually grown Stargrass, and it prospered for a while and then started to turn black. The fact that it turned black after every trim was a big turn off for me. It would grow back and branch a beautiful light green, but the black leaves would stay black forever. Even so, it is a great plant, and extremely versatile (I even tried making a groundcover out of it)

I like your Ranunculus idea a lot. I've seen a few tanks with Elatine triandra but it covered the ground as a carpet and then turned super bushy. That could work. Baby's tears are another good idea. I could use HM. I've never seen HU in person. Hmmmm...


----------



## FrostyNYC

It's been forever. I should post a full tank pic. Some little updates: I have lots of endlers now. I'm feeding Hikari First Bites and Hikari Micro Pellets. I highly recommend both foods. I also feed frozen daphnia and frozen brine shrimp, which I keep onhand at all times. I have 50+- red ramshorns now, which eat yellow squash, zuchini, and boston lettuce. 

My valisneria are already throwing out runnings. I gave away 80+ plantlets a few months ago, and it looks like I have a val farm all over again. 

I broke down and bought Cherry Shrimp on the swap and shop. I LOVE them. They make my tank so much more interesting. And one is already berried! Its strange that these shrimp are a tenth the size of amanos and yet their eggs are larger than amano eggs. I guess it makes sense, given that amanos have a primary stage where they're just little plankton things. Some please educate me with scientific terminology. Haha. But regardless, Im excited for baby RCS, and hopefully some survive and avoid my army of endlers.


----------



## ZooTycoonMaster

FTS yet?


----------



## FrostyNYC

No FTS, but here's some of my endlers. Black bar and peacocks. Some have swordtail traits (the feature, not the fish!), some have markings on their dorsal fin, some dont. Some have white markings, most dont. A lot of variation in this group. I was told that they were 100% endler with no guppy impurity. Anyone see any guppy in them? Mind you, these fish are TINY. I took the pics in a tic-tac container.

The first pic was taken with flash, the rest are with ambient light only. I should've used flash on all of them. The colors really pop.


----------



## FrostyNYC

So, its been a month and a half since I rescaped the tank. I did plant some HM on the right, as a few people suggested, to break up the monotony. And I purchased 20 red cherry shrimp off someone in the SnS. They shipped it in java moss, so I threw the little clump on the left side, and it's grown out into a monster amount of java moss. The HM also has been trimmed, because it was growing all over the place. It's still a huge mound.

Two weeks ago, I traded a dozen or so endler fry for a couple handfulls of red root floater, salvinia and duckweed. The shrimp and endler fry are enjoying all the root cover at the surface, so Im pleased. However, my red ramshorn snails (I must have 100 at this point), keep eating the red root floater. I actually removed like 20 snails to a glass jar, where they're chilling and being punished for snacking on my plants. 

In addition to a full tank shot, here's a pic I just took of my tank in action. I circled endlers in red and a couple snails in yellow. It's hard to see anything because I'm using a poor camera right now and because everything is constantly moving in my tank. Forgive my poor FTS, as I didnt crop it and its not even centered or in balance.

I've actually not changed the water in this tank in 3 weeks, and I've only fertilized once this month.  Full time work + grad school at night + friends/family takes a lot out of me. Im glad the tank has still prospered without my help. 

One other thing! Several people mentioned they loved the manzanita branches in my tank. Well, so did my snails, apparently. They ate the branch down to hair-thin traces of wood, which then crumbled and broke into splinters. I kid you not. So, anyone who values their manzanita, and values red root floaters, stay away from red ramshorns.


----------



## ZooTycoonMaster

Wow it looks good! Where'd you hide the CO2 reactor now?


----------



## FrostyNYC

My CO2 actually ran out and I was without CO2 for two weeks. Apparently, it's illegal to refill a CO2 tank in NYC (you have to buy pre-filled ones or swap your empty one for a filled one), so to refill my paintball canister I need to drive out of the city. This turned out to be a hassle, so I switched over to my trusty two-liter soda bottle and a glass/ceramic nano diffuser. When I refilled my paintball canister finally last week, I just hooked it up to the glass diffuser instead of the reactor. I havent noticed a really significant difference, perhaps because all the floating plant cover is keeping any CO2 bubbles from popping at the surface. 

The nano diffuser is hidden in the HM.


----------



## @[email protected]

tank looks great!
but you need to clear the floaters a bit IMO. unless they are all just up against the front glass and the center is clear.


----------



## EdTheEdge

Wow this tank has really shaped up over the length of this thread! Looking good! :thumbsup::thumbsup:
Thanks for sharing!


----------



## FrostyNYC

@[email protected] said:


> tank looks great!
> but you need to clear the floaters a bit IMO. unless they are all just up against the front glass and the center is clear.


I agree. The surface was 75% covered when I added them, and now its 100% covered. Right now, Im just getting a kick out of them, since I've never had floating plants before. But I certainly will have to thin them out, before they start seriously impacting the other plants in the tank.


----------



## FrostyNYC

Low and behold, a trim today revealed several baby RCS! Wooot. They are reproducing!

Im starting a 2.5 gallon RCS tank, as an aside. Its sitting right now with Ecocomplete, some rocks, driftwood, java moss, and a handful of my floating plants. Im waiting for the filter to come in the mail. 

During the trim, I realized that the amount of duckweed in my tank has quadrupled in 2 weeks......... Hopefully I didnt open pandora's box with this duckweed stuff. It's already all over my sink and bathtub, let alone the tank surface.


----------



## FrostyNYC

Trimmed back the Rotala severely and gave out a large RAOK of floaters and rotala and red ramshorn snails.

I set up a 2.5 gallon tank with the java moss from this tank, plus some old driftwood I had laying around, and I played "Fish for Shrimp" for several days, catching all my RCS. There are still more in this tank, but I've got more than enough transferred over into my new 2.5g to start a colony over there too. 

I'm excited to say that I placed a plant order with another hobbyist, and I'm expecting some Windelov, subwasertang, and spiky moss for my new 2.5 shrimp tank. And I got a small kleinerbar sword for this 10 gallon tank. I'd like to trim back the HM so that I can actually see my Rubin sword, and then put the kleiner bar sword on the left side. I'm sort of sad that I put my rubin so far to the back, since you can't see how beautiful it is all the way in the back corner. It's got probably 30 ruby red leaves at this point, really gorgeous, and not as big as I expected it to be. It must be staying short because of the small tank size.


----------



## ZooTycoonMaster

Your username matches the weather over there, doesn't it?

How's the tank?


----------



## FrostyNYC

I spent 6 hours driving from Boston to NYC last night, which is usually a 2.5 to 3 hour drive. So yes, very frosty up here. The weather is inclement, to say the least. 

Tank is good. I'll post a full tank shot tomorrow. I've been haphazardly dosing EI, and since I stopped regular dosing, I noticed I'm getting algae on the glass. Plants can't outcompete when Im not dosing, apparently. 

Also, I've been noticing some bright yellow ramshorn snails in my tank. I've been pulling these out and putting them into my new small tank. Although there really isn't a huge demand for ramshorn snails out there, perhaps I can get a couple of new colors breeding true. Other than the blues, browns, reds, and pinks... I'd never heard of yellow.


----------



## EdTheEdge

FrostyNYC said:


> I spent 6 hours driving from Boston to NYC last night, which is usually a 2.5 to 3 hour drive. So yes, very frosty up here. The weather is inclement, to say the least.
> 
> Tank is good. I'll post a full tank shot tomorrow. I've been haphazardly dosing EI, and since I stopped regular dosing, I noticed I'm getting algae on the glass. Plants can't outcompete when Im not dosing, apparently.
> 
> Also, I've been noticing some bright yellow ramshorn snails in my tank. I've been pulling these out and putting them into my new small tank. Although there really isn't a huge demand for ramshorn snails out there, perhaps I can get a couple of new colors breeding true. Other than the blues, browns, reds, and pinks... I'd never heard of yellow.


Yellow Ramshorns would be the schnizits!


----------



## SdJaCK&SaLLy

I really like your tank...be careful with those snails, they breed allot.


----------



## FrostyNYC

Thanks for the compliment, and I know about the breeding. I've given away dozens, and I've crushed even more for instant fish food. The only negative in my opinion is that they've eaten all of my red root floater. But they don't touch my other plants. I'm a fan of inverts in general.


----------



## FrostyNYC

EdTheEdge said:


> Yellow Ramshorns would be the schnizits!


I isolated the most yellow one, and she's already laid one clutch that's hatched little yellow babies. I'll probably be working on this for a couple months.


----------



## FrostyNYC

Some updates: I got my plant order from a hobbyist of another forum, and I was NOT pleased. The spiky moss I ordered was full of hair algae and clado, and I had to throw it away. The Subwassertang was significantly smaller in size than advertised, but I did managed to clean it of all the clado in it. I got some TINY Windelov and a half broken Kleiner Bar sword. I intended to put these all in my 2.5 gallon, but I placed them all in this tank to grow out a little and recover from their transport. 

Big change: I took out the java moss and HM. Now there's actually room for fish to swim. The front right is very bare again, and Im not happy with it, but it gives me a spot to experiment with new plants. 

I did not reduce photosize on the first pic, so that you can click on it and see it closer. (Caution: large file size)

An RCS breaking the waterline in an attempt at... evolution?









This tank is now an endler farm









Requisite full tank shot


----------



## CL

The tank still looks nice!


----------



## Phoenix-cry

That is awesome!


----------



## soundtweakers

nice journal, thanks for the floaters.

bill


----------



## ZooTycoonMaster

Hmm your Sword is smaller than mine:icon_eek:

Lol update?


----------



## FrostyNYC

Not too many changes or growth, even. I spent the last week and a half in Florida and the lights were drastically reduced and CO2 turned off. The floaters keep overgrowing and cutting off light too, even though I keep giving the excess Salvinia away. I think I'm gonna try putting a root tab under the sword to try to inspire some growth or reproduction from that thing.

Also, I dropped my Fuji digital camera on the floor, and now the shutter won't open. Anyone have a suggestion on where to send it for repairs? Blah.

PS - Zoo, I'll refrain from any sword-size comments. This is a family forum afterall.


----------



## fishboy87

FrostyNYC said:


> PS - Zoo, I'll refrain from any sword-size comments. This is a family forum afterall.


lol

Nice tank! This is an honest question, is that the largest size the sword can get? 

I also wanted to comment on the corkscrew val in the tank. I've never seen it used in almost any tank and it really seems like it helps the overall scale of the tank being that they are vals and the don't even reach the surface of the water!
Great job!


----------



## FrostyNYC

Fishboy87, thanks for the complements. 

The sword at the back right is a rubin. From everything I've read and heard, they get huge. But mine has 20 to 30 leaves right now, they're a bright magenta/maroon, and the plant seems really healthy to me. I'm not sure why the leaves arent growing any taller. I've had the plant for over a year, and it hasn't outgrown the tank. It had maybe 5 leaves when I got it. 

The vals are also really short. This variety of val never got really tall for me. The leaves get 12 inches long max, and usually stay shorter. It does spread runners like mad though, and is hard to keep contained. I mostly consider this tank a val-farm. I'm not sure why so few people use it. I'm a huge fan.

I'd like to try something else to bracket the vals on the right and left. I shouldnt have cut the rotala back so hard. Now that Im looking at the tank, I think its time to thin out the tenellus... it looks messy.


----------



## Qckwzrd

Your tank looks good, I like the vals alot. Endlers must be breeding like crazy in the tank.


----------



## FrostyNYC

Qckwzrd said:


> Your tank looks good, I like the vals alot. Endlers must be breeding like crazy in the tank.


They are. Too bad they're class P and not class N, since they're Spypet's line, but he's banned on this site now, and I can't find out where he got his from.

My fiance was just complaining that I need to get rid of some of the endlers actually. I guess I do have 50 too many.


----------



## Ladykatze

It looks great! It's come a very long way from the first photos I saw.


----------



## FrostyNYC

Ladykatze said:


> It looks great! It's come a very long way from the first photos I saw.


Hey! Your comment made me think to email you, and low and behold, you already emailed me first.


----------



## FrostyNYC

I made an impulse buy today. I've been dying for a dwarf cory species for months now (maybe years), and I didnt really care which of the three species I got. Well, a local petstore had hastitus and pygmaeus. I ended up getting 3 little pygmies. I love them! And then they disappeared into my plants.  Occasionally they come out and school with my endlers, cause with the black-bars running across both the endlers and the cories, they look really similar. But then the cories disappear back into the plants. We'll see how that goes. 

ThatFishPlace sells these guys for 99 cents each. It makes me want to buy 10 more. Who wants in on a NYC-based ThatFishPlace fish order? 

Oh, I also picked up like 10 stems of Rotala wallichi for like $2.99. Not bad. (Since I got ripped off on the price of the pygmy cories)


----------



## CL

FrostyNYC said:


> I made an impulse buy today. I've been dying for a dwarf cory species for months now (maybe years)


Is it really impulse buying then? LOL :hihi:


----------



## jinx©

Your cories will probably show themselves a little more as they become more accustomed to their new home. I've had the same reaction out of some groups over the years.
It might not hurt to add 2-3 more to the group as well.

Cool looking tank btw.


----------



## Ugly Genius

clwatkins10 said:


> is it really impulse buying then? Lol :hihi:


lol!


----------



## FrostyNYC

jinx© said:


> Your cories will probably show themselves a little more as they become more accustomed to their new home. I've had the same reaction out of some groups over the years.
> It might not hurt to add 2-3 more to the group as well.
> 
> Cool looking tank btw.


Thanks for the compliment.

All three cories are swimming and schooling with the endlers as I type this. It's very cute. They're very, very confused.

I would love a school of like 10 pygmaeus in this ten gallon, with a couple bright red microrasbora for color. It'd be great. But for now, it looks like the cories are happy enough hanging out with their new same-size, same-color livebearer friends.


----------



## FrostyNYC

It looks like Im going to have to start throwing away extra Salvinia minima. It's growing faster than I can even give it away. 

Id ship it, but I dont think it's really worth the $6 or so shipping.

I'm guessing most people throw away their extra floaters?


----------



## dacrax07

maybe you could put a sign on a mailbox advertising all of your extra plants and fish?


----------



## FrostyNYC

dacrax07 said:


> maybe you could put a sign on a mailbox advertising all of your extra plants and fish?


NY is too full of crazies to advertise on a mailbox. I can just imagine who would call or email me.


----------



## FrostyNYC

Quick photo update. Havent done much, but I did add some Rotala wallichii and mixed it in with my Rotala rotundifiola. Sorry this is overexposed.


----------



## FrostyNYC

What do you guys think? Should I replant the vals on the left and right, get them out of the center? Any opinions on where things should be moved? It looks like a mess to me at this point.


----------



## CL

It looks good to me. Seems like you've mastered this little tank. I don't see a speck of algae :thumbsup:


----------



## FrostyNYC

clwatkins10 said:


> It looks good to me. Seems like you've mastered this little tank. I don't see a speck of algae :thumbsup:


HAHA. I wish. I actually do get outbreaks of hair algae when I skip out on dosing and forget to turn my CO2 off and on. I just hooked the CO2 back onto the solenoid, so that's one less thing for me to mess up.

But yea, I've getting kind of bored with this tank.  Maybe I'll just let it grow out and see what happens. (though I would have to keep the floaters in check)


----------



## CL

Nice endlers BTW


----------



## ZooTycoonMaster

How's the CO2 reactor working for you?


----------



## FrostyNYC

I took out the Red Sea CO2 reactor a couple months ago because I was tired of looking at it. I'm only using a nano glass/ceramic diffuser position below my HOB filter outflow to stir the bubbles around. With all my floaters, the mist of bubbles arent bursting on the surface or anything, which is good. But I'll likely go back to using the reactor. I had no problems with it, I just wanted to try something different, although sometimes it would spit out a whole bunch of large CO2 bubbles, so its definitely not perfect.

Btw, I just purchased Zoo Tycoon 2 Ultimate two days ago at Circuit City, since it was half off. I'm mildly amused so far. And it definitely did catch my eye because of your username.


----------



## Phoenix-cry

It's looking so nice!


----------



## ZooTycoonMaster

FrostyNYC said:


> Btw, I just purchased Zoo Tycoon 2 Ultimate two days ago at Circuit City, since it was half off. I'm mildly amused so far. And it definitely did catch my eye because of your username.


Lol you'll like it

I'm so jealous of you for keeping your Sword under control


----------



## Superedwin

WOW! Very nice tank it looks great nicely done!


----------



## FrostyNYC

clwatkins, Phoenix-cry & Superedwin, thank you for the compliments 

clwatkins - Thanks regarding the endlers. I think I may have to start selectively weening out the ones I don't really like, to get rid of the plainer males.

ZooTycoon - I already learned the hard way that a chainlink fence will not contain a dinosaur. Regarding my sword, it may be under control, but it makes me paranoid that its stunted for some reason. I've gotta get some root tabs.


----------



## CAM6467

That's some real nice growth you've got going on. I'm just starting my ten gallon project as well. I just ordered my plants and they'll be here within the week. Are you using any ferts on this tank yet? I'm loving the floaters you've got going on. I hope mine can end up like yours. Keep up the good work!


----------



## FrostyNYC

CAM6467 - Thanks. I've had this tank up and running for a year now, so its been through several incarnations. I fertilize via EI dosing, with dry macro ferts and liquid micro ferts, plus pressurized CO2. 

Thanks for the compliments. Maybe when it's a little warmer out, I can send some floaters out your way. I just threw a ton out into the trash this weekend. 

On another note, and a minor update to the tank, I got two dwarf puffers on sale this weekend. I couldnt resist. They're tiny! They had full bellies when I got them, but those bellies turned sunken because they refused to eat for about 3 days. But then today they both have very very full bellies. I've seen them pecking at snails, but not actually eating any. And I've seen them stalking endler fry, but not attacking any (the endler fry are much faster than the puffers). So I wonder what they're eating that's making them so fat. Hopefully just snails.


----------



## fastfreddie

Frosty,
I've really enjoyed your thread and tank progress. It's a great looking little ten! I think I'm going to order the same light fixture as soon as I can find the daylight bulb in stock somewhere. Are you still enjoying this fixture? It seems to be working out great for you. 

I don't know why there are not more 20" fixtures available. It seems like most people doing ten gallons are always using a DIY fixture or a 24" thats a little longer than their tank. 

Glad you got your solenoid hooked back up. That was a disaster waiting to happen. :hihi:


----------



## FrostyNYC

Thanks for the comment, Fastfreddie.  I hope my journal provided some insight and information to people working on similar tanks. 

I'm going to be tearing this down soon, though, and doing something different. No idea what though. We shall see. Whatever it is, I think it'll still be an endler tank, cause I love my fish.


----------



## suebe333

Nice tank ,, love checking out the progression of it


----------



## FrostyNYC

Just a heads up to everyone: I thought my puffers could survive on my 100 ramshorn snails and an occasional endler fry. I was wrong. They'd occasionally get a fat belly and then get a sunken belly and starve for a week. Brine shrimp, daphnia, and all kinds of dry food... nothing worked. And then I read... bloodworms. And low and behold, tonight I have the fattest little puffers in NYC.  They love them even more than snails and fish fry.


----------



## boltp777

hey i mean the tank looks great in my opinion but i think if you move the vals and have a center piece it will look much better like you said but the tank is def awesome =)


----------



## FrostyNYC

This tank is still up but has been completely redone with new substrate, new plants, new everything. I'm playing with a new camera, and still havent figured it out, but here's what my endlers look like now. Forgive the awful pic... like I said, still trying to figure this out. And its impossible to keep endlers in focus when they're constantly moving.  There's at least 30 adults in that pic alone. Woo.


----------



## imeridian

Your endlers are awesome!

I can totally relate to the quick moving fish though, my furcata rainbows are speed demons, it's almost impossible to get a clear photo of them!


----------



## FrostyNYC

My endlers follow my camera and my head. If I crouch near the bottom of the tank, they all swim to the bottom. If I move to the side, they all follow me to the side.

Other than their personalities, my favorite thing about them is the variability in their patterns. I know many of them individually since they're unique.  Yea, I need a dog or cat, I know.


----------



## FrostyNYC

Here's my situation: I got a $50 gift certificate to That Fish Place, and while I know I could easily spend that on more Flourish and fish food, Im considering an upgrade to my tank. Here are the stats:

10 gallon tank
Current USA Satellite 40watts w/moonlight
Red Sea Pressurized Paintball CO2 w/solenoid and reactor
Aquaclear 20 (I think) HOB Filter
Substrate: Currently Flourite, but already ordered AS Amazonia I which should be delivered next week.

Plants: Marsilea minuta carpet, Needle-leaf java fern, Flame moss, Subwassertang, Windelov java fern, E.tenellus, Salvinia minuta, a Rubin sword, and two small Ozelot swords (swords gotta go...). I have no stem plants, but I plant on adding some when I redo my tank once my Aquasoil comes in.

I have no heater, because my tank never goes below 78 degrees.

I'm consider getting a canister filter... maybe a heater... Not sure. I recognize that I'll be paying more than $50 if I upgrade to a canister. Anyone have any suggestions?

And gosh, I need a new full tank shot up badly, before I totally redo this tank yet again.


----------



## ZooTycoonMaster

I think you should post a picture before we can decide


----------



## fastfreddie

Go for the canister filter! Then you won't see the aquaclear through the glass.I use a Rena XP 1 on my 10 gallon and it works great. It comes with a flow adjuster, but I think the flow is perfect. Maintenance is super easy with no mess, and parts and media are readily available. I think you can find them for $99. 

OR, if you go for a heater, the 200 W Hydor in-line heater is a great addition and adds no more equipment in the tank, and its exactly $49. 

Good luck! ZTM is right though. You need to post a final pic!


----------



## FrostyNYC

Well I wouldnt go with an in-line heater unless I get a canister filter first, of course.

And I was actually thinking of getting an Eheim 2213... but maybe I'll go Rena. I heard the Rena's can get noisy. I'm going to look into that one. Thank you for the suggestion, fastfreddie.

And Zoo, I think I hate my current scape, so Im skeptical about posting a pic. One I get the Aquasoil in, I think Im going to start a whole new journal. 9 pages and like 12 months of this thing qualifies for a new journal.


----------



## ZooTycoonMaster

Rena's are sort of strong for a 10 gallon tank


----------



## FrostyNYC

Well, my Aquasoil Amazonia came in. I picked up 9 litres. Rescape will happen in a few days. I'm going to RAOK my red rubin swordplant (its in like every photo in this journal), it has about 20 leaves. If anyone wants it for the cost of shipping, let me know, otherwise I'll post on the SnS in a few days when I pull it out.

Anywho, here's my 2.5 gallon shrimp tank which sits right next to my 10 gallon. Im going to be transferring the shrimp and these plants back into the 10 gallon after its re-cycled (i.e. after the AS ammonia leaching is done). And yes, I'm finally finally going to paint a black background on my 10 gallon, cause I know seeing through tanks generally sucks.


----------



## Vladdy

Whoah. Your 10 gallon is so much better than mine. I really like those rocks. I was looking for some just like that. I updated my journal. Check it out. By the way, I like the floating plants. I wanted to get some salvinia or duckweed. That's what's great about Florida. You can just go grab the plants out of a pond and put them in alum or bleach them. We got hornwort, salvinia, duckweed, parrot's feather, some kind of anacharis, and pheonix moss right in the pond in the park.


----------



## FrostyNYC

Haha. Thanks, Vlad. Yours will look good too, believe me. Which rocks are you talking about? The zebra rock or the brown slate?

And yea, there's nothing in the water around NYC except garbage. 

I can send you some Salvinia and Duckweed via snail-mail if you can't find any locally.


----------



## Vladdy

It looks better every time you update it


----------



## RamsRme

Where are the dwarf puffer pics?:hihi: Looks great!


----------



## FrostyNYC

RamsRme said:


> Where are the dwarf puffer pics?:hihi: Looks great!


How ironic! I just gave away my puffer to a member on here this evening. 

Why, you ask? Cause I broke down my tank tonight. Gulp. Here's the new version, with Aquasoil Amazonia substrate now. Im not done. I just got sick of scaping, and its almost 1am, and I have work in the morning. New plants for me are the Microsword and the Ranunculus (two nodes right by the rocks). There's marsilea minuta in the foreground. Behind the rocks are needle-leaf java fern, and some fast growing stem plants to help me avert algae. I normally use snails, but with some fine driftwood, I dont want them eating it and destroying it. Excuse the blurry photos. I know they suck. Also, the glass is covered with little bubbles from being filled two hours ago.

The idea is for the right side to be totally full of plants. I know it looks really weird right now, cause of the empty space, but it'll fill in. I'm also going to put something over in the back left corner, but I don't know what yet. Frankly, Im just excited to try AS. I had switched from eco (great substrate) to flourite black (attractive but about as useful as plain gravel to grow plants apparently). So lets see if AS can beat eco complete. 


















Edit: I just realized the branch turned strangely when I filled the tank. I'll fix it.


----------



## Vladdy

Where did you get that wood? The mopani wood pieces at my local Petco are too big for a 10 gallon tank in my opinion. All of my local pet stores have a crappy selection of aquarium plants and decor. I am not buying driftwood online. I was thinking of taking some dead wood from outside and putting it in my tank like that after I remove the bark and boil it. I bet the micro sword will look great! Mine is spreading a bit. I always have to bury the runners, since they always float around while the parent plant is rooted.


----------



## FrostyNYC

I got the wood from Badcopnofish on this forum. Got a really amazing selection from one of the "nano packages" that he sells on here.

If you use wood you find outside, just make sure its completely dry. Also, don't use anything that has oils in it (like pine).


----------



## Vladdy

I was talking about both rocks. My teacher has a really nice granite rock in her desk, and I'm gonna ask her if I can have it. I don't know why the heck she has a granite rock in her desk, but it would be perfect in my aquarium. I'm gonna put some salvinia in my tank next time I go to the park.


----------



## boltp777

your red cherries are huge =O


----------



## FrostyNYC

boltp777 said:


> your red cherries are huge =O


Nah, they're just in a tiny tank.


----------



## FrostyNYC

Update today, and for anyone considering switching to AS... Ammonia measured *5ppm *today. Yikes. I've done two 50% water changes in the last 3 days. I know I should be doing 100% changes. I was having problems with my python (stupid plastic sink adapter got stripped) and my bucket broke (dropped it when it was full of my old flourite and it cracked). But I'll keep up with the water changes nonetheless. 

Other than that, my stems plants are sending down new roots. No growth yet, but its only been a couple days, and I don't expect miracles until the plants are adjusted. THEN I expect miracles.


----------



## FrostyNYC

The impulse buys are killing me. I just got some strange stem plant (I'll post pics on Tuesday-ish) that I can't identify. And I almost bought some long-finned cherry barbs but fortunately they were overpriced at $4 each. Whew! 

I'm thinking of not putting the endlers back in this tank. Since the cherry shrimp are being really lame and 100 eggs = 5 surviving shrimp, I think Im just going to dump the cherries in the 10 gallon when its done cycling, keep a trio of endlers in my 2.5 gallon and get some new fish to put in the 10 gallon. I'd really prefer to keep my 10 gallon sort of empty, and the endlers just being overwhelming in their numbers really fast. Its hard to see plants, with a black mass of fish swarming at you hoping to get fed. Plus, I want something with colorful females. And although I love how variable the male endlers are, the females are really pretty boring. 

So what fish to get? Id prefer an egg-layer that I could attempting breeding down the line. I love furcata rainbows and clown killies, and both are captively bred, so they're potentially on the list. Hm. I don't like community tanks, so it's gotta be something that's really interesting on its own.


----------



## Qckwzrd

clown Killies! or you can do the aphyosemion australe golds which are a nice gold color with hints of red. I'm going to try and get some of the clown killies from Franks wish I had another tank to do the australe golds tho.


----------



## FrostyNYC

Qckwzrd,
Has Frank sent you any pics of the clown killies he actually has? The photo on his website is a stock photo used on several websites. I'm curious as to what his actually look like. My concerns about clown killies are two-fold:

1. They're mainly top dwellers, and would leave most of the rest of my tank kind of empty and boring.

2. Since I'd like to breed them and maintain them in a colony, I wouldnt be able to keep shrimp, since I don't want any eggs eaten, and I do love my shrimp. 

Something for me to think about.


----------



## Qckwzrd

Good points. They arent as active as your endlers but they do get busy lol youtube Pseudepiplathys annulatus I found some cool videos of them. I'm suppose to meet up with Frank Sunday to pick up the killifish, I'll post pics once they settle in. I may be sending you a pm about your endlers


----------



## FrostyNYC

Qckwzrd said:


> Good points. They arent as active as your endlers but they do get busy lol youtube Pseudepiplathys annulatus I found some cool videos of them. I'm suppose to meet up with Frank Sunday to pick up the killifish, I'll post pics once they settle in. I may be sending you a pm about your endlers


Sure let me know regarding the endlers. Also I already have youtubed the P. annalatus.  I youtube pretty much any fish or invert that I consider purchasing. The danger is in going to fishstores and making impulse buys, in my experience.

Definitely post some pics of your new killies after you get them settled into your tank.


----------



## FrostyNYC

An update. I had moved some stems around last week and added the mystery plant on the right that looks like anacharis with spiky edges on the leaves. 










Anyone know what this plant is?


----------



## FrostyNYC

This is five days after the previous photo I posted. Regarding the aquasoil: I'm sold. Gangbusters growth from the get go, on the stems at least. Suuuuure there's enough ammonia in my tank to kill anything with a pulse. But my plants are happy.  

I've got some collectoritis going on here fyi. I think I'm going to get rid of the hygros (one stem each of hygro and bold) and I think I'm going to lose the microsword in favor of blyxa. I'm also sort of wishing I had given HC a shot instead of the Marsilea minuta. Oh well. I can always swap things out and around in the future. 

Also, before anyone says anything, I already moved the CO2 reactor to the far right where its hidden. I'll be losing the HOB intake after I switch to canister, which will happen eventually.


----------



## CL

Nice stuff 
That stem plants almost looks like some kind of erio, but at the same time, it doesn't. hmm...


----------



## FrostyNYC

Yea, I have a thread going over in the "Plants" section of the forum about what it could possibly be. Here's what the new growth on it looks like. It looks nothing like the original growth from when I bought it. It's growing FAST and the old leaves are melting FAST.


----------



## CL

Well, whatever it is, it looks cool. I also see some salvinia down there in your needle leaf lol. Isn't that stuff just delightful?


----------



## FrostyNYC

clwatkins10 said:


> Well, whatever it is, it looks cool. I also see some salvinia down there in your needle leaf lol. Isn't that stuff just delightful?


Haha! Good eye! And yea, I grab a handful and throw it in the garbage about once a week. I used to give it out for free, but I think everyone in Manhattan who wanted Salvinia has it now thanks to me.


----------



## demosthenes

oh, i know that plant! the one that looks like anacharis.. its Egeria najas, or Anacharis najas or Whatever-theyre-calling-it-these-days najas. its basically anacharis, but awesome. I actually think anacharis is a really good looking plant, idk why more people don't use it.


----------



## FrostyNYC

demosthenes said:


> oh, i know that plant! the one that looks like anacharis.. its Egeria najas, or Anacharis najas or Whatever-theyre-calling-it-these-days najas. its basically anacharis, but awesome. I actually think anacharis is a really good looking plant, idk why more people don't use it.


I think there's a lot of elitism when it comes to hardcore fishkeeping, gardening, and most hobbies in general. We all know that we can grow anacharis, so we try to challenge ourselves with something more difficult. I agree though. I like anacharis. The only thing I dislike about it is how messy it can look. Sort of like this mystery plant of mine. It's a space filler, and a curiosity for me. I'll see how it grows it to see if I want to keep it.

So far, the guesses for what my mystery plant is:
Lagarosiphon major
Egeria najas
Hydrilla verticillata


----------



## fastfreddie

Is it Tonina Belem? like in p 14 of JG's 20 Long Journal?


----------



## fastfreddie

oops sorry, I just saw the same suggestion in your thread over in plants.


----------



## FrostyNYC

fastfreddie said:


> oops sorry, I just saw the same suggestion in your thread over in plants.


Yea, it's definitely not a Tonina.  I wish! And wow, that's a ridiculously attractive 20L tank. 

I'm fairly sure its either Hydrilla or Egeria, and either way its a noxious weed.


----------



## nazspeed

frosty +1 on the killies i dont have the clown variantion but i Love my lampeyes and they stay in the mid to upper section maybe you could mix clowns and lampeyes together (plants on bottom, lampeys in mid, clowns in the upper............)that way you will always be able to see your plants!!! and what happened with your endlers?


----------



## FrostyNYC

Nazspeed,
My endlers are in a 5 gallon holding tank because my 10 gallon is still cycling after switching to Aquasoil. The tank cycled after 10 days or so, but then stupid me unplugged the filter during a water change and forgot to plug it back in for two days. I tested the water again after I realized what I had done, and I was back to 4 ppm of ammonia. Sigh. Im now hovering around 0.5 ppm but that's still too risky for me to put any livestock in the tank.

Updates: I pulled out the mystery noxious weed. It grew over 6 inches in a week, but the growth was sort of weedy-looking and all over the place. If I had a bigger tank, I could see using it, since it's branching like crazy, but I dunno right now. So I threw that plant in with the endlers in their holding tank. 

I picked up a bunch of plants from Kotoeloncat today and put them in. I had gotten frustrated waiting for the microsword to grow in, and I stuck a bunch of blyxa in the back. Maybe TOO MUCH blyxa, but I didnt expect Koto to give me quite so much. There's also a bunch of random stems in there right now. 

Plants in here right now, and my preliminary opinions:

Asian ambula - One of the fastest growers I've ever had in any of my tanks. And its pretty, to boot.
Hygro sp. 'Bold' - Super slow grower in my tank. But probably my favorite stem in here. I wish it grew faster. It's covered up by the blyxa now 
Ludwigua brevipes - I have one stem of this. It's grown a little bit and it's branching heavily at nearly every node near the substrate. I like it.
Myrio Matto - Love it. What an easy plant! And the leaves are so feathery against the black background. This plant has grown about half inch a day. It's already easy doubled in size.
Rotala verticillaris - One stem. It's growing sooo slowly but its rooted now and it's branching and splitting. Looks good.
Rotala mini type 2 - Just got this one, so not quite sure what I think yet.
Rotala mini type 1 - See above.
Marsilea minuta - I'm really disappointed in this one. My entire foreground is M.minuta, and it's barely grown at all. Im going to give this a month and see what happens.
Lilaeopsis brasiliensis - Frustrating much? It melted almost completely because what I purchased what grown emersed. It's growing sooooo slowly now. I'm not sure I'm patient enough for this one.
Java fern 'needleleaf' - Great plant. I've had this since before this rescape. It tends to look a little messy when it starts getting plantlets on it though. But really significantly nicer than the normal java fern imho. 
Hemigraphis traian - Got one stem as a bonus. Leaves a little too large for my tank, but WOW talk about purple!!! I know why people hunt this plant down now.


----------



## ZooTycoonMaster

Wow it looks great! Myrio _does_ grow fast doesn't it?


----------



## boltp777

i love the manzanita its awesome it looks like something out of a japanese garden. the Hemigraphis traian accents it as well maybe if you could def grow it out wish it was like a java fern and the rhizomes grew on the wood cuz that would be so cool.but looks great =)


----------



## FrostyNYC

Thanks Zoo and Bolt. I do really like the Hemigraphis traian, but its a really strange plant. The stem is very rigid, unlike most aquatic plants, and the plant does not bend much at all. The leaves are also fairly large and tough, for a stem. Its almost something that I'd be growing in my garden, not my tank. (Well, I would be growing it in my tank if I had a 20 long, or a 55 gallon or something...)

I'm still suffering through an extended cycling period with the Aquasoil, which is driving me mad. I havent been able to do water changes in the last week, because the POS faucet adapter on my Python got stripped. Why oh why does Python manufacture faucet adapters made of such cheap soft plastic?? I ordered a metal adapter on ebay, it should be here in a few days.

Regarding stocking, Im thinking of going with either scarlet badis, peacock gudgeon, or maybe a dwarf gouramie (like a licorice or sparkling). Any opinions or personal experiences?


----------



## FrostyNYC

I love my weeds. 5 days growth. And my ambulia is turning pink at the surface. Weird.


----------



## CL

Nice :thumbsup:
I miss that full tank feel haha. Slow growers are a pain.
Your tank looks great


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## FrostyNYC

Big mistake. I made an impulse buy and came home with a baby balloon ram. Normally, I think balloon rams are hideous and deformed, but they were SO CUTE! And they were begging for me to bring them home, like puppies!! So I got one. And for two days, he had black stress bars down his body, and now he has pop-eye or something. Sigh. Serves me right.


----------



## CL

FrostyNYC said:


> Big mistake. I made an impulse buy and came home with a baby balloon ram. Normally, I think balloon rams are hideous and deformed, but they were SO CUTE! And they were begging for me to bring them home, like puppies!! So I got one. And for two days, he had black stress bars down his body, and now he has pop-eye or something. Sigh. Serves me right.


That's sad to hear  I saw a thread about pop-eye earlier today. It might be worth checking out.


----------



## FrostyNYC

Too late. He's dead. That was certainly quick. I only had him for 2.5 days. Ammonia = 0. Nitrite = 0. Nitrate = 15+-ppm. My pH is around 5 though and my hardness is around 0 dH. Maybe that stressed him? I know that balloon rams are even more delicate than regular rams... oh well. Lesson learned.


----------



## FrostyNYC

Lesson learned? I think not. NOW my lesson is learned. The sick ram I introduced to my tank has resulted in mass fish-die off. Four endlers are dead, with no signs of illness beforehand. The ram was breathing heavily and quickly when I bought him, but I thought that was just how they breathed. I was wrong. Now my endlers are dropping like flies, and I have no idea what it is. Test readings come up normal. I'll have to look into this after work/school, because I have no time right now. Good thing I have 3 tanks of endlers and if I lose this colony I'll be able to repopulate. People, QUARANTINE NEW FISH!!!

PS - I've been watching Battlestar Galactica, and this is so appropriate. Oy.


----------



## FrostyNYC

I feel like I'm talking to myself here!

Anyway, die-off seemed to end at 7 dead endlers. What stinks is that these are the endlers that I separated for breeding purposes cause they have black and orange dorsal fins. Oh well. 

Full tank shot time.










Top down... M.minuta is nevvvver going to fill in.









Amano chillin in the trees


----------



## binders

So sorry to hear about your die off. We all know we should quartine but do many of us? I don't know how many times I have brought something bad home with me from the LFS. Will I ever learn? 
Sorry you lost so many.:icon_cry:


----------



## fastfreddie

Bummer man! Well, at least the tank looks good right now! 

Is that ambulia on the left? EDIT:Yes it is. nvmnd. I read back one page like i should have in the first place.


----------



## FrostyNYC

binders,
Thank you. And I knoooow Im not the only one who doesnt quarantine. Now, if I had a fish room or a basement and space for more tanks...

fastfreddie,
Yep, there's ambulia in there, as you read. Its the fastest growing plant in the tank, but the Myriophyllum mattogrossense is far and away my favorite plant in the tank. Its leaves are like feathers or snowflakes. And (crossing fingers) no algae issues whatsoever. Now that the ambulia has reached the top of my tank, all new growth is a pink/green that I don't care for all that much. Gotta trim.


----------



## FrostyNYC

Been sort of frustrated. My CO2 ran out 8 days ago, and Dick's sporting goods was out of CO2. Today I went back and they're still out, so I drove another 4 miles to Sports Authority and they were also out, and then I drove 12 miles to the next closest Dick's sporting goods and they said their CO2 canister was broken. Given that all these places are 30+ miles from my apartment, since there's nowhere to refill paintball canisters in NYC, I'm pretty irrate. 

Anyway, here's a photo of my endler fry loving me, and here's one of my container gardens on my balcony (sweet woodruff, coleus, and japanese painted fern).


----------



## crimsonbull57

next time you go to fill up your Co2 you may wanna call first :hihi:
Nice flowers btw


----------



## FrostyNYC

crimsonbull57 said:


> next time you go to fill up your Co2 you may wanna call first :hihi:
> Nice flowers btw


I am absolutely going to call before I go next time. I am mean, what are the odds 3 out of 3 places cant refill, tho?

And those are not flowers! As in aquascaping, I was trying to get the most color and texture without resorting to flowers.  It's the leaves that do it for me.


----------



## Vladdy

Wow, your tank is looking great! Better than mine. Sorry about the die-off. I did a complete rescape of my tank. So far, it looks pretty sweet.


----------



## Tex Gal

Keep some excel on hand so that when your CO2 runs out you can at least have that as backup. I keep 2 CO2 containers so that I always have one on reserve.

Try root tabs under your Marsilea. Aquariumplants.com has some "complete" root tabs that are small and won't be over kill for your tank. It will help it fill in quicker.


----------



## FrostyNYC

Vladdy,
I'll check out your journal now. I havent taken a look in several weeks. And thanks for the compliment. Believe me, its all about practice and planning and finding the right plants for your goals.

Tex Gal,
Thanks for the tip. I've been dosing excel but not as much as Seachem requires. I'm sort of traumatized from bad experiences with Excel and Vals and Mosses and Subwassertang. Regarding the root tabs, I didnt think they'd be necessary with Aquasoil and EI dosing. Im thinking maybe my water is way too soft and acidic.


----------



## Ugly Genius

Sorry about your losses, Frosty. Tank's looking healthy, though.
A trim of the Camboba(?) on the left and an addition of run-of-the-mill Java Moss on the rocks on the right with an explosion of Pearlgrass centered right behind the driftwood would look really nice, I think.


----------



## FrostyNYC

UG,
Thanks for the suggestions. I trimmed last week, so the ambulia and myrio on the left are now a reasonable height. On the right, I added a third manzanita branch because I felt it looked pretty weak. I agree that I need something else on the right, but I've done pearlgrass before and I found it to be a little too... dense... for my liking, if that makes any sense. If you jump back like six months in this journal, you'll see I had a ridiculous amount of it once. I agree I should get some moss action going, I have flame and java on hand, so I'll see what I can do.


----------



## Ugly Genius

I found the period with the Pearlgrass on page five, Frosty. Actually, that was exactly the type of bushiness I thought would look great behind the DW, ironically enough. But I totally know what you mean about a plant's growth patterns not jiving with something inside of you. I'm that way with HC. Love the plant; can't stand how it grows.

And really nice flowers!

I mean, leaves.

Really nice leaves.


----------



## boltp777

bummer about the fish those things you call trees what plant is that looks pretty friggen awesome sweet tank also. ill be putting my 10 g journal up soon =) and my salt =XXXXXX maybe if i dont get yelled at lol


----------



## boltp777

is it Limnophila sessiliflora ???? if so i want some eventually lol


----------



## FrostyNYC

No, the plant in the "amano in the trees" picture is Myrio. I'm sending you a PM.


----------



## FrostyNYC

Havent been updating much, but just a narrative of what's new: Plant/scape side? Not much. I added three PVC tubes. Why? Because I got peacock gudgeons! 

And, after less than 2 weeks in my tank, my three males and 4 females mated, and two males are now guarding their eggs in their PVC tubes and one is guarding eggs under a rock overhang. Since they take 6 days to hatch, ideally I should remove the eggs in about 3 days, but Im going to Florida on vacation for a week coming up, so I even if I remove them a little early and give them their own tank, I won't be around to feed them. Do you think newborn gudgeon fry would be able to survive if I just stick them in a tank by themselves with a gallon or so of java moss? Maybe there's be enough tiny things in that for them to survive?


----------



## FrostyNYC

Some bad news. I did a 50% water change since Im going away for a week, and one of the males ate all of his eggs. I guess the water change stressed him. It WAS his first attempt at being a father, so maybe he was just nervous/inexperienced. A second batch of eggs looks good though, and is already 5 days old... I can see little eyes in all the eggs! The batch is small though, only 10 eggs. Im sure there were at least 20 or 30 earlier. I guess because my fish are so young, not many were fertilized. The aquabid seller I bought these from indicated that he's surprised they're breeding so young and small. Im sure my next batches of eggs will be more successful, and I won't do any water changes until they hatch (if I leave them in the tank that is)


----------



## FrostyNYC

Well, I enjoyed my week in Florida. I came home to a male sitting in his cave with about 10 baby peacock gudgeons. However, now the babies are all gone. Not sure what happened, but I figure they were eaten since I let them hatch in the community tank. Next time I'll be around, and I'll move them into a growout tank. In the meantime, I think I should get rid of some of these fish, as they're a bit nippy and all the females have some tattered fins. I think 2 males and 3 females would be plenty for this tank. There's also one true siamese algae eater in here and one amano shrimp. I know that the SAE will outgrow the tank if given the opportunity.

Full tank shot and a close up below. You'll notice I have two white PVC pipes in there and two black PVC pipes. I know that the white ones are very conspicuous, and I need to find replacements.


----------



## Reginald2

boltp777 said:


> bummer about the fish those things you call trees what plant is that looks pretty friggen awesome sweet tank also. ill be putting my 10 g journal up soon =) and my salt =XXXXXX maybe if i dont get yelled at lol


Whoa


----------



## FrostyNYC

Its almost exactly 4 weeks after the last mating, and there's a male and a female holed up in a PVC cave again. If things move like they did last month, they'll stay in the cave for three or four days, the female will lay her eggs, and then the male will evict her. This time, though, I'm going to keep the male with the eggs for five or six days, and then evict HIM from the PVC and raise the fry myself in a seperate tank. 

I still have about 15 young endlers (not showing color yet) in my 2.5 gallon shrimp tank. I guess its time to get rid of them, since after a year and a half of endlers, Im really tired of them.


----------



## FrostyNYC

So, genius that I am, I did some major purning and a water change last night, and the male Peacock gudgeon ate 90% of his eggs. They had eyes and they were churning and twisting, and he still ate them, due to the stress of the water change and my shuffling around in the tank. I'm so angry at myself right now. 

Lesson for all: If your gudgeon is guarding eggs, either take the eggs away from him or keep your hands OUT of the tank! When will I learn?


----------



## Xcomx5

gorgeous tank Frosty! That sucks about your gudgeon's eggs sorry to hear that


----------



## IZZIE

NICE TANK !!! love the blyxa J/ Really nice, I also love the fish they are pretty ! I might get a few of my own , now that I see yours !! ~~~ GREAT JOB ~!!!


----------



## smoq

Love your tank. It metamorphosed so many times that it's very interesting to read your journal.


----------



## FrostyNYC

Thanks for the comments, everyone. I hope people are learning from my mistakes and also maybe getting some inspiration here. 

Smoq - Im limited in tank size and number of tanks due to my small apartment, so I make the most of this little 10 gallon. It's been through a lot.

Now, an update. A pic of the tank before a major trim (the clippings went to a member on here) and then a pic after the trim and after stuffing the tank full of all my moss, java fern, and driftwood from my 2.5 gallon that I just broke down. If anyone is in NYC and wants the last of my endlers, they're yours free.

Pre trim:









Post trim and throwing some random junk in there:









I know it looks really messy right now, but Im selling and getting rid of some stuff, and it'll grow back into full glory in a week or two. I pulled out most of the failing Marsilea minuta and Im going to try glosso in the foreground in front of the Blyxa lawn.


----------



## PRSRocker3390

Awesome tank! What kind of co2 our you using and how are you diffusing it?


----------



## FrostyNYC

Thanks, PRS. Im using pressurized CO2 from a paintball canister. Im using a Red Sea Reactor to diffuse it. It's the ugly thing in the top right of the tank. I had pretty glass diffusers but I broke two of them already, so I guess I should stick to durable clunky plastic.


----------



## april_tanks

I would love your endlers, but I'm in South Florida D: Anyway I can pay for your to ship them?


----------



## FrostyNYC

april_tanks said:


> I would love your endlers, but I'm in South Florida D: Anyway I can pay for your to ship them?


Sorry, but no fish shipping for me right now. You're welcome to pick them up! Visit the empire state building... statue of liberty... and come home with a bag of endlers.


----------



## CL

Whoa that was overgrown. Everything is looking fantastic.


----------



## april_tanks

FrostyNYC said:


> Sorry, but no fish shipping for me right now. You're welcome to pick them up! Visit the empire state building... statue of liberty... and come home with a bag of endlers.


I wish xD Do you maybe know someone in your area that ships fish, and can ship them for you?


----------



## FrostyNYC

clwatkins10 said:


> Whoa that was overgrown. Everything is looking fantastic.


Coming from you, that means a lot, thank you. I've been watching your reef tank recently, and I've got an itch to start my own nano reef.


----------



## FrostyNYC

Okay, here are some keywords: RCS, Cherry Shrimp, Peacock Gudgeon

Anyone searching those words, here's some advice: DO NOT MIX THEM. My peacocks just ate my 15+- cherry shrimp. BIG cherry shrimp. My female cherry shrimp were almost 3/4 of an inch long. And they all got attacked and ravaged. I couldn't get them out because of all the plants. I came home from work today to find RCS pieces everywhere. Oh, the torment.  I'm sorry, cherry shrimp. I meant well.


----------



## FrostyNYC

Full tank shot, stems have reached the surface already









Male guarding his rock cave









All the peacocks, picking at the last cherry shrimp (its dead in a blyxa)


----------



## Chrisinator

You make me so jealous with how many Peacock Gudgeons you have. Man! Thanks awesome! Have you seen any flaring/breeding rituals yet? Im looking to breed them!


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## FrostyNYC

I've had 4 spawns since I got them (in August). In every instance, I screwed up and either the eggs or the fry were eaten by the adults. Next time they spawn, Im taking the eggs out and raising them myself. These are incredibly easy fish to spawn, as long as you provide a spot for them to lay eggs (a rock crevice, PVC pipe, etc)


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## Chrisinator

FrostyNYC said:


> I've had 4 spawns since I got them (in August). In every instance, I screwed up and either the eggs or the fry were eaten by the adults. Next time they spawn, Im taking the eggs out and raising them myself. These are incredibly easy fish to spawn, as long as you provide a spot for them to lay eggs (a rock crevice, PVC pipe, etc)


I know someone who has I think about 4-5 fry that survive from the spawn and he raised them since they were fry. THey'll definetely eat their eggs. How many males do you have and where did you get them from?


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## FrostyNYC

Chrisinator said:


> I know someone who has I think about 4-5 fry that survive from the spawn and he raised them since they were fry. THey'll definetely eat their eggs. How many males do you have and where did you get them from?


I have 3 males and 4 females in a 10 gallon tank. They're definitely cramped and I would never suggest this many in a 10 gallon. I think 2 pairs or 1 male and 3 females would be much better.

I ordered them on aquabid.


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## FrostyNYC

Tank is looking like a mess. Note the major stem growth in only one week. Excuse the couple of vals I put in the middle front... Im just growing them out there for a bit since the space is empty.

Plans:
Replace HOB filter for Eheim 2213. Remove CO2 reactor and use Eheim to circulate CO2. Remove needle-leaf java fern and flame-moss covered manzanita. Where all that mess is in the back right, I want a tall grass-like plant. There's an SAE in there who will be out soon, I already found him a new home. I LOVE SAE when it comes to algae eating, but it's going to outgrow this tank. Also, while the SAE got along perfectly with my endlers, he's chasing my docile slow-moving gudgeons.

It just stinks when you want to rescape and you have no place for the plants you don't want to use anymore. I wish I had a spare tank to just keep extra clippings that I may want to use again. I guess these plants are easy enough to find that I'll just buy them again if I want to use them in the future.


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## kurosuto

to refill your paintball tank, did you try those pb fields? theres a place in queens...


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## kurosuto

or...you can leave them in fellow new yorkers' tanks as a "plant" bank...


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## FrostyNYC

Kurosuto - I refill my paintball tank on Long Island. You can take it to any sporting goods store and they'll refill them there. I usually go to Sports Authority or Dick's in Mineola by Roosevelt Field Mall. I think it's just in NYC that they won't refill your CO2 tank and let you leave with it. Regarding having a plant bank in other people's tanks? Not a bad idea.  God knows there's like 15 New Yorkers already with my plants and endlers. I'll probably be sending emails if I need any of those species again.


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## FrostyNYC

Small update. So, the peacocks started breeding again. Its been just about one month since the last courtship displays, so they're on a 4 week cycle. Things got a little violent this time, and I ended up with a dead male. I don't know how it happened, but he was the smallest male with the least developed forehead hump and least colorful finnage. Now, he's dead. I'm down to 2 males. I'm assuming this will be more successful than the 4 males I started with. 

Well, three days ago, I found one of the males in a PVC tube guarding a bunch of eggs. I evicted him from the tube and put it into a seperate 5 gallon tank with 50% water from their original tank and 50% new tap water. Today, I can clearly see the black eyespots of the developing fish in the eggs. Another 3 days or so, and they'll hatch. I've placed an order on Aquabid for Walterworms, which will hopefully be mailed out on Tuesday. Because they'll probably need food before the worms get here, I've added a softball of java fern to the tank. Hopefully that will have enough life on it to support the newborn fry. Hopefully maybe they'll touch dry food. I'll play around with feeding them after they're born. I hope those worms get here soon!


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## FrostyNYC

Failure. Eggs fungused without the male peacock there to fan them and turn them. I had one hatch and disappear. The rest, even though they're fertile and have eyes, etc, are dying unhatched.

However, my second male is currently guarding another clutch in a PVC pipe. I'll grab these from him last minute, a day before they're set to hatch. Wish me luck.


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## Tex Gal

Good luck!


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## leemacnyc

Hey Frosty,

Did you order that light on-line or pick it up in the city? It's sold out everywhere on-line...Do you still have the dwarf puffers?


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## FrostyNYC

Tex Gal - Your luck worked! Two fry survived from that batch, and hatched before the fungus overtook their eggs. Plus I had a second batch, and I moved them over today, and they just hatched! I've got like fifty fry now. I'll post pics in a bit.

Leemacnyc - My lighting fixture is on sale at drsfosterandsmith: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=11418
Its out of stock there? Maybe you call them to see when it'll be in stock again.
The dwarf puffers are long gone.


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## FrostyNYC

Okay. Fungus hit again, and the eggs were just hours away from hatching. I suspect that it's a water flow issue, as theres absolutely no flow inside that PVC. I'll work on correcting that with the next batch.

I've had about 40 hatch. Of those, Id say 20 don't look like they're going to make it already. They're just sort of laying around the bottom of the tank. The other 20 or so are sort of "bouncing" around the tank but still have small yolk sacks so I dont expect them to be free swimming until tomorrow. There are maybe 5 darting in and out of the java moss I have in this fry tank. I've been feeding them infusoria, and I have a batch of walter worms ready for them to take after all the fry are free swimming. I'll also introduce a couple snails at that point to eat leftovers.

Photos: Sorry my camera is just a point and shoot. The first pic is fertilized eggs inside of PVC. You'll notice that the female lays them partially upsidedown. Interesting. The second pic is newborn fry making their way out of the PVC. The internal diameter of that PVC pipe is 3/4 of an inch, so that gives you an idea of how small these fish are.


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## FrostyNYC

Failure again. I have 5 survivors, and a ton of dead fry on the bottom of the tank. What am I doing wrong? Next time, I let the fry hatch in the PVC in the original tank with the male fish, and then I remove him and add the surviving fry (whatever doesnt get eaten) into the rearing tank. 

I'm feeding the 5 survivors and they have fat bellies. Hopefully they survive the pivotal first week.


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## Vladdy

Why on Earth would you want to remove the awesome-looking flame moss-covered manzanita wood?


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## FrostyNYC

Vladdy said:


> Why on Earth would you want to remove the awesome-looking flame moss-covered manzanita wood?


Vlad - It looks too busy and messy for me. I wanted a simple tank with grass-like plants, and instead I have chaos.

Small gudgeon fry update: The wrigglers on the bottom that I thought were dying? Not dying! I have over 20 fry swimming and darting around the water column, with fat bellies full of worms. Score!


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## husonfirst

Awesome! Let's see some pictures.


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## Green Leaf Aquariums

FrostyNYC said:


> Okay. Fungus hit again, and the eggs were just hours away from hatching. I suspect that it's a water flow issue, as theres absolutely no flow inside that PVC. I'll work on correcting that with the next batch.
> 
> I've had about 40 hatch. Of those, Id say 20 don't look like they're going to make it already. They're just sort of laying around the bottom of the tank. The other 20 or so are sort of "bouncing" around the tank but still have small yolk sacks so I dont expect them to be free swimming until tomorrow. There are maybe 5 darting in and out of the java moss I have in this fry tank. I've been feeding them infusoria, and I have a batch of walter worms ready for them to take after all the fry are free swimming. I'll also introduce a couple snails at that point to eat leftovers.
> 
> Photos: Sorry my camera is just a point and shoot. The first pic is fertilized eggs inside of PVC. You'll notice that the female lays them partially upsidedown. Interesting. The second pic is newborn fry making their way out of the PVC. The internal diameter of that PVC pipe is 3/4 of an inch, so that gives you an idea of how small these fish are.


Have you tried using Alder Cones?


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## FrostyNYC

Orlando said:


> Have you tried using Alder Cones?


I'd never even heard of alder cones. I just googled them. My only concern is that the pH of my water is around 6 coming out of the tap. Blackwater means even more acidicity. However, the cones are pretty cheap online, so they're worth a shot. It beats using a chemical fungicide for sure, but Im also certain that I need to keep a steady flow of water over the eggs, which I havent been doing. Thanks, Orlando!


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## FrostyNYC

husonfirst said:


> Awesome! Let's see some pictures.


Its not going to be easy getting photos with my camera. I can barely see them with my _eyes_. They're all swimming horizontal at this point, but they're growing at markedly different rates. All least they're not cannibalistic. I'll try to get some photos soon, after they're grown a bit and are less transparent. I've counted 20, but there could be more. This is my first experience breeding egglayers (not counting inverts), so Im thrilled. Hopefully I'll be able to share these guys in the 3 to 4 months it takes for them to grow out.


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## FrostyNYC

Well, I've fallen completely in love with my baby peacock gudgeons. They're in a 5 gallon eclipse hex tank (I used to have an old journal about that tank if anyone remembers) with java moss and some random plant cuttings. I'm feeding them walter worms 3 times a day. The worms smell absolutely horrible. Rotting baby cereal is a true horror. 

It was tough getting pics with my camera, but here ya go. They look a lot like most baby fish. However, I can already see them starting to change shape and become more "gudgeon-like". I'm counting over 20 of them. They hover around like fruit flies, so they're not easy to count. There are 3 that are malformed and so of just bounce around the bottom. I should probably cull them, as they're heart-wrenching to watch. They're all about a quarter inch long and one week old at this point. I believe that by next week I should be able to start varying their diet with something other than the walter worms (they won't touch powder fry food... i tried).

















And finally, my mess of a 10 gallon, which now houses 2 male and 3 female peacocks. Those 5 are left from the 8 I originally purchased. 1 female died by jumping into the HOB filter. And 2 males were murdered by the 2 dominant males left. I've been feeding these guys by hand, and they nip at my fingers whenever I go into the tank. Like the endlers I had before them, I could probably just scoop the gudgeons out by hand if I wanted to, they're so tame. Since they're so accustomed to being fed by me, they started taking dry food pellets. The males spit them out, but the females eat the pellets voraciously. Other than that, their diet consists of frozen bloodworms and frozen brine shrimp.


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## april_tanks

They are such pretty FW Fish. Will you be selling this in the near future??? Because I would love to buy some and if you ever decide to ship fish, I will be your first customer! xD


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## tRiAl&ErRoR

*Veggies*








[/quote]







*HOW DO YOU COOK IT FIRST? DO YOU BOIL IT? *
*I USED TO JUST PUT IT IN THE TANK BUT IT WOULD FLOAT AND NOTHING WOULD EAT IT...*
*THANKS-LEXI&LUKE:fish:*​


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## Tex Gal

So glad to hear your little guys are doing so well. That's a lot of babies!!! They are so cute!


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## FrostyNYC

April tanks - Thank you! First, though, Im going to see if I can raise these little guys to adulthood. Then I can think about selling them.

Trial&Error - I can't believe you found that old picture. I'm glad people still read that far back. I would nuke the zucchini in the microwave for a couple seconds... just long enough to make it a little soft. Or, you can just slice up the zucchini and toss it in the freezer in a freezer bag. Then, just take the slices out when you need one, attach it to a clip and drop in the tank. When it freezes and then defrosts, it sort of gets soft and breaks down a little, and the fish, snails, and shrimp will eat up. Vegetables will float, so you need a vegie clip or some other way to hold it down or hold it to the glass. 

Tex Gal - Thanks! I think I've said it already, but these are the first egg-layers I've ever raised, so it's a big deal for me.


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## FrostyNYC

Some pics from the tank today. They started breeding again today. I'm so not ready for another batch of fry!

Females:









Male:


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## Tex Gal

Whether it's your first eggs or not, if you're like me, it's always exciting. I sit and watch my tank and see different fish spawning. I never get the babies because it's my big 125g. Even so, I'm always intrigued because it shows that they're happy were they are, and are doing what they'd do in nature. It's just too cool!!!


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## Triphazard

those fish look scary... beautiful but scary


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## husonfirst

I like the green at the tip of their fins.


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## FrostyNYC

Tex Gal - You follow me on every forum!  And my babies wouldnt survive in their parents 10gallon, let alone a 125gallon. I have to move them into a seperate tank. You could do the same, ya know.

Triphazard - Very scary. They bite.

Husonfirst - There's a little green in some light, but mostly they're red, yellow, blue, and black. I love how different the males and females are. Not just their coloration, but also their body form, head, and fins.


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## Wicket_lfe

goodluck with the next batch. hopefully it'll work out and I can adopt some from you. haha.


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## FrostyNYC

Wicket_lfe said:


> goodluck with the next batch. hopefully it'll work out and I can adopt some from you. haha.


Absolutely. I have about 20 fry at a quarter inch right now, happily eating everything they can.

One of my adult pairs just mated again yesterday, and the male is sitting on a new batch of eggs. I'll removed these from the male in 5 days, and let them hatch in the growout tank with my current fry. Hopefully the size difference between the two clutches won't be a big deal and the older fry won't massacre the younger ones.


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## FrostyNYC

I counted my fry. 40+- baby peacock gudgeons. And at least 100 more eggs being tended to by my two males. The fry grow incredibly slowly, but they're starting to get a yellow color and some already have the distinctive gudgeon black eye spot on their tails. I dont know if I can really keep up breeding these things. Maybe one batch is enough.  

On another note, I wonder if its time to restart this journal. 16 pages and 20,000 views, and everyone gets to read about all my mistakes! Maaaaybe if I start a new tank journal I'll look like a real pro who knows what he's doing. Haha.

PS - I added 6 pygmy cories on an impulse buy. 99 cents each at petco! I'm tempted to move them into my 2.5 gallon emersed setup (after filling with water of course). Although I feel that might be torture, even for fish that are only 3/4 of an inch long.


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## Chrisinator

Congrats!


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## FrostyNYC

Havent updated in 3 weeks! Time flies. Did a little rescape. Pics are below. I also added a couple otos and an amano shrimp. My previous amanos died of old age I think. I had them for years. 

I'm still raising my peacock fry. They're aggressively eating Hikari fry food now, and Im happy that I got them off of live food. Whoever gets these fish when they grow up will have gudgeons that eat dry food and won't have to deal with feeding issues.

I did make a major mistake though. When I rescaped, I removed one of the PVC tubes. When my fish start spawning, they all start spawning at once. A male and female pair took the one PVC tube that I had left in the tank. A second pair wanted it. Squabling started. I was out all day on Thanksgiving, and when I returned, one pair of male and female were dead, with torn anal fins, and their bodies in a very strange twisted position.  Horrible.

I started with 8 gudgeons in July. Lost one female due to a jumping accident. Lost three males due to aggression. Lost one female due to aggression. I'm left with 1 male and 2 females. My fault? Completely. I've learned that the maximum peacock gudgeon occupancy in a 10 gallon is 2 males and 3 or 4 females, if and ONLY IF there are multiple spawning spots. If there are fewer spawning locations than there are males they can and will obviously fight to the death. 

Regarding the plants, I ordered a new bulb because my current bulb is a year and a half old. Bulb should arrive this week. CO2 is being diffused via nano glass diffuser again, because the reactor was such an eyesore. New diffuser is positioned under the filter outflow to disperse the CO2 spray. My needle leaf java fern is growing very well. I removed my Windelov java fern and put it in an emersed setup, where it's growing much faster and healthier than it was submersed. My blyxa lawn is doing well, I'm happy that its growing dense but not growing high. I want a little bit of glosso or something in the very front. If anyone wants to shoot some glosso or other foreground plant my way, hit me up. I know the big rock on the left is a little strange. I want another rock in front of it and larger rockwork on the right.


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## Chrisinator

Sorry to hear about your Peacock Gudgeons! At least you still have a trio!  I think I figured out the problem. The only male I have is the difformed one and the other two are females.


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## Chrisinator

Any new updates?


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## nazspeed

do you need carpeting plant or a short grower ? I have a weird one you might like let me know and ill shoot you some pics (i dont have a caperting one though)


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## FrostyNYC

Hey all. Since there's been a couple responses on here since, I've been gone, I'll update.

This tank is still up but a little neglected, as I've started a nano reef tank. I'm really enjoying the new challenges and the beauty of reefing. 

This 10 gallon tank has not been rescaped, but I did move to a new house, so things got stirred up a little. I have 2 adult female peacock gudgeons surviving, and 5 young, who live with them together. There's also a couple otos and a lone siamese algae eater. I'm probably going to break the tank down eventually. The alternative, I think, is to convert it back to an endler or livebearer tank, since I really did enjoy this tank when it was full of rapidly breeding fish. I'll probably take out the last of the stem plants too, as they require too much maintenance for me.


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## Darth Toro

just got done reading this entire thread. I just wanted to say thank you for doing such a detailed thread with great information and great pictures. I wanted to know if you have a link to the light you were using. I tried looking it up, but the one I found was out of stock and im not even sure if that was the right one. Also you never needed a heater since the temp always stayed at 78 degrees? That most have been one warm appt your were living in.
If I didn't just add red crystal shrimp to my 20 gallon I would be interested in those grudgeon's ( sorry if I spelled wrong) I have never seen them before and they are beautiful. Thanks again for a awesome thread!!!!!


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## FrostyNYC

Darth Toro said:


> just got done reading this entire thread. I just wanted to say thank you for doing such a detailed thread with great information and great pictures. I wanted to know if you have a link to the light you were using. I tried looking it up, but the one I found was out of stock and im not even sure if that was the right one. Also you never needed a heater since the temp always stayed at 78 degrees? That most have been one warm appt your were living in.
> If I didn't just add red crystal shrimp to my 20 gallon I would be interested in those grudgeon's ( sorry if I spelled wrong) I have never seen them before and they are beautiful. Thanks again for a awesome thread!!!!!


Thanks a lot, Darth Toro. It seems like most sites arent carrying my light fixture anymore, which isnt a huge surprise since it is over 2 years old now. Here's a link from Current's site: http://www.current-usa.com/satellite.html Mine is model 1002. 40 watt single bulb.

The gudgeons are beautiful and relatively rare. That's why I had to have them.  Good luck with your crystals!


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