# Propagating Crypts?



## Taikimoto (Dec 7, 2004)

hey all, first post here. anyways, first some general info on my tank:

36 bowfront
2x20w 6500k 
2x aquaclear 150's
DIY co2
150w heater
2-3" flourite bed

PH 6.8-7.0
KH 3

My question is how do I trim crypts in order to propagate and give them to others to replant? My tank is just a crypt jungle. I dont want to just cut the leaves off of them, but dont want to pull them out of the substrate to seperate them either. So how do you propogate crypts correctly. Here is a pic of my tank:










Thanks for any help.


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## eds (Feb 12, 2003)

You think that's a crypt jungle - just wait! 
Those guys look healthy, but are still quite small.
In time, they will get nearly as tall as your 36, be so thick that the fish will need to wriggle among them, and will fill out and spread out to the front glass.
In fact, I just recently moved my mass of wendtii to the back corner, as they were too imposing for the front.
When they get that established, you can remove entire plants, both to define the edges, and to thin out the middle.
You don't list any ferts or CO2.
Both will improve your growth.
All your plants look very healthy and clean.
Just wait a little.
You won't even recognize them as the same plants!


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## Taikimoto (Dec 7, 2004)

I listed DIY co2. whenever I do a whatever change or top off I add: Flourish, Flourish Trace, Flourish Iron, Flourish Potassium, and Flourish Nitrogen.

How long does it usually take for them to grow that large? Most of them that are in there I have had since May.

I have a 6700k 65watt PC fixture I could put on there, would that be better than the 2x20w NO fixture? would 2x65w PC's be too much?


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## eds (Feb 12, 2003)

Sorry - I missed the CO2.
IMO the 65W would be better than your existing 40W. Crypts, as well as your anubias, java fern, etc., will survive in really low light, but will do better with more (at least up to a point.)
As far as cranking up to nearly 4wpg - I know nothing about maintaining a tank at such light levels.
Can't give you any specific time limits other than this: I upgraded my light in my 30g from 20 to 55W just about a year ago. I added DIY CO2 and upped my fert schedule in maybe Feb-March. By November, my wendtii was a forest. Maybe as far back as Sept or Oct, but I don't recall for sure. So it probably took mine more than 6 months, but less than a year.
I assume that a lot of root growth takes place before you see the results above the substrate. When they fill out, it happens pretty quickly. 
Look into buying granular ferts in bulk. They'll cost a fraction of what you are spending on Flourish products.
Like I said - just be patient. Your tank looks quite lovely, and extremely healthy and clean.
I'd suggest you might want to think about planting something smaller in front of all those crypts filling the center and right 2/3 of your tank. IMO, when mature, those crypts will be too large for the front and center. And together, they will be a kinda overwhelming mass. Maybe something with a significantly different leaf structure for contrast. Other than your wisteria and anubias, your fern and crypts all have similar spear-shaped leaves. Maybe some dwarf sag, or quadrifola marseila (sp?). YMMV.


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## Taikimoto (Dec 7, 2004)

I got rid of my wisteria, prob the lace java fern your referring too, its attached to the driftwood and comes out from it like a fan. what about some gloss or riccia? would that give the tank more depth than just seeing gravel. how would I go about rooting either of those two? Oh, all my ferts were free, they are the big 1/2 gal. i think containers, but i'll look into some substrate ferts. I actually tried the 2x65w PC"s a while back but it seemed to "burn" the plants, guess they dont like that high of light. I'll put the 1x65w on it and see how it does. 

my co2 is producing about 2 bubbles every 14 seconds. Is this ok?


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

Your CO2 is midrange. Your lighting should actually be at a minimum of the 65 watt. That would still be considered low lighting. If you want a high tech high light tank you could go with 2x65 watts. But you would also need to get your CO2 levels up a bit and would at least need to add another 2 liters of DIY mix. Also you would have to switch to bulk chemical fertilizers or spend a big chunk of money on commercial products. 

As far as I know the home aquarium hobbyist is not able to propagate Crypts with a leaf. You will need to remove plants.


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## eds (Feb 12, 2003)

I wasn't sure whether that was wisteria or lace jf - figured all I need to do is decide it was one, and you'd let me know it was the other! 

Things look fine, so I don't think I'd sweat the substrate ferts. Kinda along the lines of - if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Is this a new tank? In time, you'll build up some good mulm. I don't think any of your plants are so demanding that a plant spike or two would make too much of a difference. 

I think glosso or riccia would be just the ticket, but I don't have any growing, so I'll let the others chime in.

Everyone has to decide for themselves how much plant variety they like. My personal opinion is that as your java ferns fill in, you'll have a large, uninterrupted bright green mass of them in the rear and middle of the center left of your tank with a little variety added by the lace variety. Your crypts will grow into a large darker mass filling the front center and right 2/3. Other than that, all you'll have is your little anubias down in the extreme far left. 
To make things more interesting, I would do one or more of the following:
-add something smaller up front. Glosso, riccia, dwarf sag, etc. Could possibly have 2 patches of the same - 1 in front center and another on far right, or one larger patch covering both areas, or 2 patches of different plants.
-add something tall and strappy, in either back right or left corners, or maybe right front. Maybe crypt balansae (sp?), corkscrew val, etc.
-add something with a drastically different leaf structure/color, like one of many ludwigia or parrot's feather. 

Check out some aquascaping sites like aquabotanic to get some basic ideas on overall structure. You want to have some diversity, but not so much that the eye does not know where to focus. With your fern on the left and crypt on the right you will have similarly shaped leaves reaching close to full aquarium height across most of your tank. Generally you want to avoid an unbroken "horizon." For example, consider making it taller on the sides and shorter in the middle, or taller in the middle and shorter on the sides.

Final point from my experence: I predict that as your plants fill in, you'll find yourself wanting to remove some of that structure. Is that all one piece of driftwood? From the picture I can't tell. Nor can I see if it has caves, tunnels, etc. If it is mainly a base upon which you attach java fern, it might take up valuable substrate space where you could plant other plants.

But I want to emphasize, don't get all bent out of shape worrying about what your tank CAN be, that you lose track of what it IS now. Nice tank, that will only get better with time. Keep us posted!


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## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

> But I want to emphasize, don't get all bent out of shape worrying about what your tank CAN be, that you lose track of what it IS now. Nice tank, that will only get better with time.


Well said! Sit back and enjoy your work once in a while!

Crypts take time to settle in. Once they do they _will_ grow! 

Crypts propagate via runners. The Crypt will throw out a runner (usually, but not exclusively, beneath the substrate) and a new plant will develop. Once those plantlets become plants, the runner can be snipped and the plant can be moved or removed entirely.

Mike


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## Taikimoto (Dec 7, 2004)

I was thinking maybe move the two pieces of driftwood toward the center, then have them flanked on each side by crypts, then on the outer edges by glosso or another ground cover plant. This would create a center focal point but leave the edges of the tank with only ground cover. Or should I also incorporate some higher plants in the corners with this plan to give it a little more depth. I'll come up with some sketches maybe and see if i can scan them in.

oh, is it ok just just uproot the crypts and ferns and replant? Ive heard of "crypt melt" and also dont want upset the tank to much. any suggestions?


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

Replanting within the same tank usually causes no problems with melting. And even if they do melt you'll notice new growth emerging as the older leaves drop. Last month I removed at least 40 wendtii 'bronze' and 'greens' out of my 40g tank (192w and pressurized CO2). The bundle must've weighed over 2 lbs! These were from about 8 tiny plantlets I got in April.


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## eds (Feb 12, 2003)

What some people - myself included - recommend is when moving crypts within your tank, is to see if you can move the substrate along with the roots, instead of pulling the plants and replanting. You can excavate a trough in the direction where the crypts will go, and then "bulldoze" the plants - roots, substrate, and all - over to their new location. Use the substrate you removed for the trough to replace substrate where the plants originally were.

Of course - it was just after performing precisely this type of replanting, that I experienced my first and only green water outbreak. Not sure, but I suspect stirring up the substrate may have been the culprit!

Your plan sounds cool. Kinda like a mountain. I'm sure you will be able to surf for photos of similar aquascapes to help perfect your vision. Keep the photos coming!


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## eds (Feb 12, 2003)

I forgot to mention - when placing your focal point/mountain, consider locating it somewhat off center. If you are not familiar with the "golden rule", do some research on it. I'd try to explain, but many others have done far better than I could.


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## Taikimoto (Dec 7, 2004)

well, my original plan was a side slope style, as you can sorta see from my pic. I was going to have one side tall, center medium/low, other side low. but if my crypts will get huge then I will prolly have to remove some and introduce more low plants.


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## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

I have heard of the "bulldoze" method before, but I don't see how it works with some really established plants. Crypt roots are long, and they are _everywhere_! If I attempted to move Crypts with the "bulldoze" method, I would rip apart my aquarium.

I think it is better to pull up the plant, trim the roots and replant. By trimming the roots you will encourage the plant to throw out more roots and settle itself in stronger.

Mike


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