# At wits end here with this algae, please help!



## EdWiser (Jul 14, 2015)

You might have high phosphates from the tap water. I only use RO/Di water. 
I would add phosphate removal to you canister filter. I use Seachem phosphate in my filter. The fish food that you feed your fish as well as the tap water could be the main cause. I would also add some stem plants as they will grow faster than the current plants you have in your aquarium.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

You can't just remove all phosphates. Plants need phosphates to grow. So they either have to be in the substrate or the water column. More than likely the amount of light you have, combined with organics is the problem. The lack of plant mass makes using good light more challenging without algae developing.


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## Phog (Jan 22, 2020)

Yeah, I'm going to try two things. 1. Change my light intensity 2. Feed less

Wish me luck!! I wonder if I just need to slow down growth so Excel can keep up.


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## EdWiser (Jul 14, 2015)

Hair algae needs phosphates way more than plants.


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## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

EdWiser said:


> Hair algae needs phosphates way more than plants.


What happens is if the plants are starved, then they start to melt and leech organics. Those organics then feed algae directly on the plants. So, it is possible that the algae is forming because of phosphates, because there's not enough phosphates. Does that make sense?


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## Somefishguy (Jan 8, 2020)

Click here for help on Aquarium Algae.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

EdWiser said:


> Hair algae needs phosphates way more than plants.


So are you recommending removing phosphates from our macro dosing?


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## monkeyruler90 (Apr 13, 2008)

that tank is probably underplanted and that's why the algae is thriving. Stuff that tank full of quick growers like more rotalas and ludwigias, try and completely hide the back glass with how many plants are in there. Once the plants are sucking up most of the nutrients then the algae will be less competitive. I would also grow that army of amanos, or get a bunch of cheap ghost shrimp as a clean up crew, I'm sure those bows are messy eaters and that's probably there's a bunch of excess nutrients.

Try adding more plants and clean up crew first before resulting to the phosphate removal media.... chances are you're not always going to stay on top of that media exchange and it's easier to just have more plants/cheap shrimp do all the work


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## rzn7z7 (Aug 17, 2013)

Recommended reading for your algae problem....hope this helps

https://greenaqua.hu/en/alga-tajekoztato


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## Jon2493 (Nov 30, 2020)

I had a Co2 controller once and it drove me nuts! I now just put in as much co2 as I can without harming the fish and shrimp. You may want to do the same. Use the drop checker to monitor Co2 and make small adjustments and monitor. Make sure the plants have all of the nutrients they need (N,P,K and Trace also Ca and Mg). If you have hard water then Ca and Mg are probably ok. If you can ensure the plants have everything they need you should be able to turn the tables on the algae. Manually remove the algae for now. Maybe check out PPS for fert. regimen. (I am not familiar with Thrive). Definitely do Not use the phosphate removing stuff(ive been there). Save your money! Good luck and dont worry about the PH controller. Eyeball the drop checker and ensure proper nutrients.


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## hlca (Nov 13, 2020)

Check out this battle with algae: 



. After he rescaped, he used RO water and it solved the problem. He also had hard water. I think this is the rescape.


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## allexx46 (Feb 15, 2019)

Jon What kind of Phosphate remover have you had trouble with? Just curious. I have had good luck with Seachem Phosguard to reduce phosphate when battling staghorn algae. Pads need changing every month cause they fill up fast. Using it in my filter let my amano shrimp keep the staghorn at bay. That said I am not sure if phosphate is the problem here as the algae in this tank does not look like staghorn and I see no fish. Phosphate usually comes from fish food or phosphate buffer so I would wonder about the source. Lots of first rate advice in this string inclusive of adding more amano shrimp so I will not add much except to say "don't feed the shrimp".


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## Phog (Jan 22, 2020)

Well, not much progress after my changes. I've ordered $300 in plants, and I'm just going to stuff the bastard. Out of curiosity, why would people be against a PH controller - wouldn't it be an ideal method to get CO2 to a perfect level? I adjusted mine by doing the calculator where you figure out your buffer etc etc to find your proper PH level. Right now I'm dropping my PH 1.0 (from 7.1 to 6.1) prior to lights on, and turning off CO2 soon before lights go out. I also have used a drop checker for backup - but it seems like a controller can make things so much more precise?


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## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

Phog said:


> Out of curiosity, why would people be against a PH controller - wouldn't it be an ideal method to get CO2 to a perfect level?


2 things here... lots of people use ph controllers for their CO2, so you're not alone.

As to why someone would choose not to use one, the best I can do is explain why I didn't go for one. I have a 125G tank with almost 300lbs of sieryu stone in the tank. After my water change, my degassed Ph is around 7.6, and by the end of the week, it's around 8. If I had a ph controller, my CO2 levels would go up every day, and then take a nosedive when I did my water change. Add to that, your Ph controller is not maintenance free either. You need to constantly make sure the probe is cleaned, free of mineral deposits, and calibrated. This adds work to your weekly maintenance, and kind of defeats the purpose of a "set-it-and-forget-it" CO2 system.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

jellopuddinpop said:


> ...my degassed Ph is around 7.6, and by the end of the week, it's around 8. If I had a ph controller, my CO2 levels would go up every day, and then take a nosedive when I did my water change..


Your ph is going up even with co2 injection?


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## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

Asteroid said:


> jellopuddinpop said:
> 
> 
> > ...my degassed Ph is around 7.6, and by the end of the week, it's around 8. If I had a ph controller, my CO2 levels would go up every day, and then take a nosedive when I did my water change..
> ...


My degassed ph.

This is due to the Sieryu stone leeching Ca and Kh into the water column. To put it a different way, if I inject CO2 to let's say 6.6 (just after a water change), by the end of the week, that same amount of CO2 would give me a ph of 7. So if I was using a controller, it would keep pushing CO2 down to 6.6, potentially gassing all of my fish.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

jellopuddinpop said:


> My degassed ph.
> 
> This is due to the Sieryu stone leeching Ca and Kh into the water column. To put it a different way, if I inject CO2 to let's say 6.6 (just after a water change), by the end of the week, that same amount of CO2 would give me a ph of 7. So if I was using a controller, it would keep pushing CO2 down to 6.6, potentially gassing all of my fish.


Makes sense about the PH controller. Reason I asked is in my 3 footer (12 Gal Long) I have 18 lbs of Seiryu. My tap KH is around 4 and I've had my tank KH go to 16 before WC, but I have no problem getting a low PH and keeping the drop checker yellowish with reasonable co2. My tap is around 7.5 and the tank gets down to around 6.5, 6.6.


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## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

Asteroid said:


> Makes sense about the PH controller. Reason I asked is in my 3 footer (12 Gal Long) I have 18 lbs of Seiryu. My tap KH is around 4 and I've had my tank KH go to 16 before WC, but I have no problem getting a low PH and keeping the drop checker yellowish with reasonable co2. My tap is around 7.5 and the tank gets down to around 6.5, 6.6.


Your drop checker will be independent of the hardness in the tank. The KH of the water in that drop checker is always 4, which is why we can use ph indicator in the drop checker to monitor CO2.

The ph probe attached to a controller is reading the ph in the tank, which will change based on how much your Sieryu Stone has leeched. Hypothetically... if you didn't dose CO2 at all, you would see your ph gradually rise in between water changes. Now when we add CO2 the ph will drop, but only temporarily. If you get your CO2 tuned right, and you get a 1.0 ph drop for your light period, that 1 pt drop will remain constant. This is true, even if your degasses water ph changes.

So let's say you do your water change on Sunday. Monday morning you check your ph, and it's 7.2. Your CO2 kicks on, and because you have it tuned well, you attain a ph of 6.2 by the time your lights kick on, and it stays there throughout the day. Day over day, your degassed ph goes up by .1 pt, and so does your ph after CO2. Tuesday 7.3 ->6.3, Wednesday 7.4-6.4... Saturday 7.7 -> 6.7.

Now imagine you have a ph controller taking care of your CO2 dosing. You check your degassed ph on Monday, and you see 7.2. You set your ph controller to shut off at 6.2. By Saturday, your degassed ph is 7.7, but your controller is still pushing CO2 to 6.2. That's a pretty big drop, and will definitely start gassing fish.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

jellopuddinpop said:


> Your drop checker will be independent of the hardness in the tank. The KH of the water in that drop checker is always 4, which is why we can use ph indicator in the drop checker to monitor CO2.
> 
> The ph probe attached to a controller is reading the ph in the tank, which will change based on how much your Sieryu Stone has leeched. Hypothetically... if you didn't dose CO2 at all, you would see your ph gradually rise in between water changes. Now when we add CO2 the ph will drop, but only temporarily. If you get your CO2 tuned right, and you get a 1.0 ph drop for your light period, that 1 pt drop will remain constant. This is true, even if your degasses water ph changes.
> 
> ...


All sounds logical. I really never studied the PH rise, so you got me really curious, so I'm going to get a good PH meter and see what the day-to-day changes are.


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## Phog (Jan 22, 2020)

jellopuddinpop said:


> Now imagine you have a ph controller taking care of your CO2 dosing. You check your degassed ph on Monday, and you see 7.2. You set your ph controller to shut off at 6.2. By Saturday, your degassed ph is 7.7, but your controller is still pushing CO2 to 6.2. That's a pretty big drop, and will definitely start gassing fish.


This is super interesting and absolutely worth knowing. With that said - I did run a drop checker for weeks confirming my level, I also found my PH to be pretty constant a day or so after my water change (when not using injection). I guess I could also tune my apex to compensate for it as well...either way it's good to know this info. I just worry about NOT using a PH controller and not putting in enough CO2 - as it seems maxing CO2 is a major weapon against algae issues.


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## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

Phog said:


> jellopuddinpop said:
> 
> 
> > Now imagine you have a ph controller taking care of your CO2 dosing. You check your degassed ph on Monday, and you see 7.2. You set your ph controller to shut off at 6.2. By Saturday, your degassed ph is 7.7, but your controller is still pushing CO2 to 6.2. That's a pretty big drop, and will definitely start gassing fish.
> ...


Take a look at the CO2 section in the journal in my signature, and you can see how I tuned mine in. It's a little complicated, but I think you can optimize better.


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## Phog (Jan 22, 2020)

I'm just offering a follow-up here. Based on some trial and error, it looks like my lighting was the problem. I have a Twinstar 1200SA and it is just WAY too strong. I dimmed it to 75% for five hours, and then 5% ramp up/down for an hour on each side. Algae is disappearing quickly. Whew!


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## EdWiser (Jul 14, 2015)

Phosphate is the cause of hair algae. 
Using a lower light level can knock it back but it still has the fuel it needs to grow. An it will adjust to the lower light levels.


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## Phog (Jan 22, 2020)

EdWiser said:


> Phosphate is the cause of hair algae.
> Using a lower light level can knock it back but it still has the fuel it needs to grow. An it will adjust to the lower light levels.


Strange because my phosphates are never over 2 or 3. _shrug_


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