# Low light 'grass carpet' &amp; 'tall reed' type plants.



## ineedfire (Jun 17, 2012)

Anything that will grow lush and thick that will carpet my low tech low light tank? 

I plan on having moss cover most of my rocks, tall reed looking plants as a background and have a pathway carved through the 'grass' in a layout similar to my hardscape mock up:










Could you give me some suggestions please? I'm still new with plants and am only familiar with a few names.


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## Sugardaddy1979 (Jan 16, 2012)

Dwarf sag would probably do well. How low light do you mean?


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## ineedfire (Jun 17, 2012)

I am currently setting up a 10g (50x25x25 LHD) low tech tank with a 20w t8 daylight bulb. (Unsure of k's and lumens. Package is at home.)


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## ineedfire (Jun 17, 2012)

Is hairgrass co2 dependent?


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## Sugardaddy1979 (Jan 16, 2012)

I think l you need pretty high light and co2 to get hair grass to do well. Dwarf sag would work. Or one of the marislea sp like minuta or hirsuta


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## ineedfire (Jun 17, 2012)

Oh okay. I just googled dwarf sag and I saw a thread 'dwarf sag vs hairgrass'. So google imaged hairgrass and it looks nice. Dwarf sag seems like the leaves are thick? I feel like it would make my tank look compacted. 

This would be similar to my desired finished effect:







(credit to whoevers awesome scape this is)
I think that is HC? Pretty sure this is CO2 dependent?

Is this style possible in a low tech tank? Would I be better off laying moss down as my 'grass' and have something with a bit I height like dwarf sag in the background/just behind focal piece?


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## Mike1239 (May 20, 2012)

I don't see a carpet that thick with any plant in a low tech tank most of those tanks are high co2 and light and then they throw some fish in take some pics and start over with different plants and rocks or wood. If you want a tank like that think about some good lights and ferts if not co2


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## ineedfire (Jun 17, 2012)

Well that's depressing to hear. Can anyone confirm that I won't be able to have any sort of plant that will form a nice thick/solid carpet in a low light tank? Even over time?


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## shinycard255 (Sep 15, 2011)

Dwarf Sag is about it without CO2, high lighting, or ferts... sorry

CO2 + ferts + high lights = more variety of plants like carpeting plants


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## ineedfire (Jun 17, 2012)

Unfortunately I can't afford a CO2 setup just yet. Would also like some experience keeping plants before investing in a more mature setup. 

Is dwarf sag thick at the base so I can trim it low?


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## Bananariot (Feb 28, 2012)

Marsilea Minuta or Chain swords. Not a dense carpet but it'll spread. Maybe root tabs would be a nice addition


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## Mike1239 (May 20, 2012)

I have a 2gal with ecocomplete and one cfl 14 watt set up and waiting on some dwarf hair grass and I'm goin to see if flourish excel will replace co2 and try to carpet the tank. Some of the carbon supplements have got to work


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## ineedfire (Jun 17, 2012)

I've just been lurking google images a bit more and quite a few people have used java moss as a carpet? Would this work for me? I could use dwarf sag or the like in my background/around my rock formations. 

Chain swords look pretty nice too. Also is flame moss much different to java moss?


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## ineedfire (Jun 17, 2012)

Mike1239 said:


> I have a 2gal with ecocomplete and one cfl 14 watt set up and waiting on some dwarf hair grass and I'm goin to see if flourish excel will replace co2 and try to carpet the tank. Some of the carbon supplements have got to work


I haven't really researched what excel is. Could you enlighten me please? Also do you have a journal I could follow?


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## Frontieruk (May 27, 2012)

ineedfire said:


> Unfortunately I can't afford a CO2 setup just yet. Would also like some experience keeping plants before investing in a more mature setup.
> 
> Is dwarf sag thick at the base so I can trim it low?


I know photos are deceiving but your tank looks like a 90l/20g which you _should_ be able to infuse co2 with a custom setup using yeast and a couple of drinks bottles (a bit unsightly I know) just an option as excel could be as expensive in the long run as co2 as its recommended to dose daily/every other day. I'd also recommend researching it yourself google seachem excel.


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## TwoTacoCombo (Apr 13, 2012)

I've got a low light/tech tank. My dwarf sag grows up, not out. You can't really trim the leaves,because they're thick in the middle.. it just won't look right. My glosso was a bust.. just wanted to grow up. I've had decent luck with the narrow leaf microswords, but the runners keep wanting to uproot. I think the only thing that will grow as a very low carpet in these kinds of tanks would be moss. Flame moss wants to grow up, like a flame, and probably wouldn't make a good carpet. Something like java or taiwan moss would make a better carpet, since it likes to grow downwards. Meshed fissidens would make an awesome looking carpet, but be prepared to wait a while for that all to fill in.


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## ineedfire (Jun 17, 2012)

Frontieruk said:


> I know photos are deceiving but your tank looks like a 90l/20g which you _should_ be able to infuse co2 with a custom setup using yeast and a couple of drinks bottles (a bit unsightly I know) just an option as excel could be as expensive in the long run as co2 as its recommended to dose daily/every other day. I'd also recommend researching it yourself google seachem excel.


I have read that DIY co2 is very unstable? My tank is only 10g (50x25x25cm so more like 8.6g but 10 is easier haha.) would a smaller tank be more suited to DIY co2 systems?



TwoTacoCombo said:


> I've got a low light/tech tank. My dwarf sag grows up, not out. You can't really trim the leaves,because they're thick in the middle.. it just won't look right. My glosso was a bust.. just wanted to grow up. I've had decent luck with the narrow leaf microswords, but the runners keep wanting to uproot. I think the only thing that will grow as a very low carpet in these kinds of tanks would be moss. Flame moss wants to grow up, like a flame, and probably wouldn't make a good carpet. Something like java or taiwan moss would make a better carpet, since it likes to grow downwards. Meshed fissidens would make an awesome looking carpet, but be prepared to wait a while for that all to fill in.


I did a little bit of research last night and didn't find much other than moss that would work. Kind of a bummer but hopefully I'll be able to make it work. How long would you be waiting or meshed fissidens to grow out in a 10g tank?

The only problem I really have with moss as a carpet is I won't really be able to use it on any dw or stone. It would wash out the tank making it all kind of generic?

If I ended up using moss as a carpet base what could I use on top of some dw to have the underwater bonsai look?


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## Frontieruk (May 27, 2012)

ineedfire said:


> I have read that DIY co2 is very unstable? My tank is only 10g (50x25x25cm so more like 8.6g but 10 is easier haha.) would a smaller tank be more suited to DIY co2 systems?


well you are highly unlikely to overdose with DIY CO2, but the instability of DIY CO2 systems is down to temperature variations, if room temp is 20c/68f or above you'll get co2 the higher the temp the quicker the co2 is produced, below those temps you'll be lucky to get anything, but I'm guessing being in Aus higher temps aren't an issue 

You can dose larger tanks with DIY co2, but the setups ive seen get silly with multiple reaction bottles, at that point I'd be like f' it and buy a pressure system.


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## ineedfire (Jun 17, 2012)

Well at the moment it's winter so the mornings are around 5*C and by midday it's about 24*C. I love winter weather haha. It does get nice and hot here though. That's usually when I hate living behind a mountain range. Cuts off any cool breeze from the coast which is only 20km's away. 

Would the cold nights and warmer morning be bad for an attempt at DIY CO2?


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## Mike1239 (May 20, 2012)

As far as what excel is I'm not a chemist I just know its supposed to be an liquid form of carbon the plants can use. I don't have a journal I'm still pretty new to the forum and I use my iPhone so there is some parts of this site I haven't used or know about yet.


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## Frontieruk (May 27, 2012)

ineedfire said:


> Well at the moment it's winter so the mornings are around 5*C and by midday it's about 24*C. I love winter weather haha. It does get nice and hot here though. That's usually when I hate living behind a mountain range. Cuts off any cool breeze from the coast which is only 20km's away.
> 
> Would the cold nights and warmer morning be bad for an attempt at DIY CO2?


Tbh i know guys who'd love that as co2 production would stop over night when plants actually stop using co2 and release it themselves, the production could be restarted with a quick shake when temps pick up, but I don't know how practical that is around work for yourself.




Mike1239 said:


> As far as what excel is I'm not a chemist I just know its supposed to be an liquid form of carbon the plants can use. I don't have a journal I'm still pretty new to the forum and I use my iPhone so there is some parts of this site I haven't used or know about yet.


It's also an algaecide


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## Mike1239 (May 20, 2012)

Frontieruk said:


> Tbh i know guys who'd love that as co2 production would stop over night when plants actually stop using co2 and release it themselves, the production could be restarted with a quick shake when temps pick up, but I don't know how practical that is around work for yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good link on excel


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## ineedfire (Jun 17, 2012)

Hmm that is interesting. Another fact I didn't know  Although I think that it would be a little too much effort for me ATM. Would rather a low maintenance setup. Will probably just stick with low tech till I can afford all the pressurized co2 gear. 

I will have to read that link after work. Can you dose excel for a short amount of time to clear up an algae bloom or would it change the water parameters too much and distress the plants.


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## jasonpatterson (Apr 15, 2011)

ineedfire said:


> Can you dose excel for a short amount of time to clear up an algae bloom or would it change the water parameters too much and distress the plants.


You can dose excel to get rid of algae, though it's more useful as a spot treatment. It's pretty nasty stuff though, and you can hurt some plants and pretty much any animals with it in great enough concentrations. It's pretty nasty stuff, and not as good as CO2 by far, but it does help.


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## Frontieruk (May 27, 2012)

ineedfire said:


> Hmm that is interesting. Another fact I didn't know  Although I think that it would be a little too much effort for me ATM. Would rather a low maintenance setup. Will probably just stick with low tech till I can afford all the pressurized co2 gear.
> 
> I will have to read that link after work. Can you dose excel for a short amount of time to clear up an algae bloom or would it change the water parameters too much and distress the plants.


Never used myself but seachems literature suggests it dissipates after 24hrs thus the daily dosing, the link I posted is quite informative so do have a read 

There is another way to maintain the co2 reactors temp, which again is a tad unsightly and may not be for you, but its also quite genius for those of us in less temporate regions, a bucket with a tank heater, sounds crazy right? :iamwithst but there is method to the madness, a standard bucket is about 10liters, your tank is around 40liters depending on US/UK gallons, so the bucket of water is near enough 25% probably closer to 20% after putting the reactor bottle in it, the tank heater keeps the reactor going and when you come to do a water change if you set the heater to a similar temp to the tank there shouldn't be a huge temperature swing, the water sits for for a week so can be treated etc and if the water changes are done after midday the reactor can be out to one side while the fresh water is brought up to temp to keep the reaction going over night. 

Not saying you should, but it's good to have options  

Or you could just DIY a pressurised system with airgun cartridges


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## ineedfire (Jun 17, 2012)

Well that is quite an interesting idea, I never would have thought of keeping just the co2 mixture warm.. Good thing a lot of people have figured all this out already haha  

I also like the sound of DIY pressurized canister with spray guns. We have some new ones at work that they don't want us using for some reason.. Been sitting around for a few months. Might be able to scab one if I ask nicely. Are there any step by steps on that particular DIY setup?


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## Frontieruk (May 27, 2012)

ineedfire said:


> Well that is quite an interesting idea, I never would have thought of keeping just the co2 mixture warm.. Good thing a lot of people have figured all this out already haha
> 
> I also like the sound of DIY pressurized canister with spray guns. We have some new ones at work that they don't want us using for some reason.. Been sitting around for a few months. Might be able to scab one if I ask nicely. Are there any step by steps on that particular DIY setup?


I've seen a few as I've floated around cyberspace, but here's one on this very board  http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=115850


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## ineedfire (Jun 17, 2012)

AWESOME. So cheap. Might be able to have a co2 tank yet. Would definitely increase my interest with the different type of plants you can have in a co2 infused tank. 

Co2 tanks need more intense lights correct? May have to upgrade my t8 if I decide to go with co2. Its definitely on the cards now thanks to that write up, and you linking it for me


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## Eldachleich (Jul 9, 2011)

If you can get a solid ID on it the grassy plant in my betta bowl would do you well..
It grows in unlit tanks in inert sand. If you add in a roottab it goes nuts. Spready quickly.. Between 3 - 5 inches high.

I personally havent gotten a good ID on it yet but I can tell you its pretty much bulletproof and grows in any light level.


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## ineedfire (Jun 17, 2012)

Eldachleich said:


> If you can get a solid ID on it the grassy plant in my betta bowl would do you well..
> It grows in unlit tanks in inert sand. If you add in a roottab it goes nuts. Spready quickly.. Between 3 - 5 inches high.
> 
> I personally havent gotten a good ID on it yet but I can tell you its pretty much bulletproof and grows in any light level.


So you have no idea what it is?
Can you post a pic please? I'm intrigued. Maybe someone on here can identify it.


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## Frontieruk (May 27, 2012)

ineedfire said:


> AWESOME. So cheap. Might be able to have a co2 tank yet. Would definitely increase my interest with the different type of plants you can have in a co2 infused tank.
> 
> Co2 tanks need more intense lights correct? May have to upgrade my t8 if I decide to go with co2. Its definitely on the cards now thanks to that write up, and you linking it for me


http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=105774 Lighting guide


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## ineedfire (Jun 17, 2012)

Frontieruk said:


> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=105774 Lighting guide


Frontieruk... You're a legend. Haha thanks man


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## Frontieruk (May 27, 2012)

ineedfire said:


> Frontieruk... You're a legend. Haha thanks man


Yeah I became quite interested in lighting when I noticed my fish trying to hide when my complete lighting setup is on, I couldn't say quite what the par is, but it's in the high bracket (80par+) it's not so much an issue now my tank is growing in, but I only max the lighting an hour and half to not stress the fish.


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## ineedfire (Jun 17, 2012)

ineedfire said:


> So you have no idea what it is?
> Can you post a pic please? I'm intrigued. Maybe someone on here can identify it.


Just checked out tpt on my browser instead of tapatalk (I'm only on my iPhone at the moment. :/) anyway I see you have a link to your betta tank in your signiture (doesn't show up on tapatalk). Will check it out now.


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## ineedfire (Jun 17, 2012)

Frontieruk said:


> Yeah I became quite interested in lighting when I noticed my fish trying to hide when my complete lighting setup is on, I couldn't say quite what the par is, but it's in the high bracket (80par+) it's not so much an issue now my tank is growing in, but I only max the lighting an hour and half to not stress the fish.


Must have been pretty brutal lighting to make your fish hide from it haha. 

I'd appreciate it if you had a quick look through my journal and add your thoughts on my setup im planning 
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=180323


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## Eldachleich (Jul 9, 2011)

Lol... you can only see bits of it I'm now realising.
I will try and get some good solid pictures of it tomorrow.
Hopefully you can identify it.
I would love to know.


I got it from a tank in Petsmart labeled Assorted Plants.


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## Frontieruk (May 27, 2012)

ineedfire said:


> Must have been pretty brutal lighting to make your fish hide from it haha.
> 
> I'd appreciate it if you had a quick look through my journal and add your thoughts on my setup im planning
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=180323


Not brutal, just (alot) more than expected, I'd had the argument with a mate that my lighting plans were ott he won  the good thing is if I keep my next tank the same depth I can go loooooooong without having to get anymore (who am I kidding right?  )

As I say I toned it back by swapping between the led arrays to keep light even on the tank, and an evaporation tray helps a bit further by defusing the light a bit more.

I was already subscribed to your DIY thread  I wanted to do something similar in my tank but had the issue of having fish already to move in as my original tank got damaged so I was running it with low water levels to prevent floods. Fortunately it was quite a calm transition but I was left having to plant with fish and substrate established (not fun).


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## ineedfire (Jun 17, 2012)

Frontieruk said:


> Not brutal, just (alot) more than expected, I'd had the argument with a mate that my lighting plans were ott he won  the good thing is if I keep my next tank the same depth I can go loooooooong without having to get anymore (who am I kidding right?  )
> 
> As I say I toned it back by swapping between the led arrays to keep light even on the tank, and an evaporation tray helps a bit further by defusing the light a bit more.
> 
> I was already subscribed to your DIY thread  I wanted to do something similar in my tank but had the issue of having fish already to move in as my original tank got damaged so I was running it with low water levels to prevent floods. Fortunately it was quite a calm transition but I was left having to plant with fish and substrate established (not fun).


Ah that sucks. I'm pretty keen to start planting my tank. Still a little bit of prep to go though. What are your thoughts on dry start method for my moss?

I'm thinking I might get a mr aqua 20 long for my next tank. They have a really nice look. Or I might make my own. Or I have a 3ft tank under the house I might be able to cut down (height) to make it a little more suitable for planting. 

And thanks for subscribing.  I'm guessing it's the light stand that you were thinking of making. One of the perks of having a few mig's and steel scraps at work. Made it in less then an hour on my lunch break.


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## Frontieruk (May 27, 2012)

ineedfire said:


> Ah that sucks. I'm pretty keen to start planting my tank. Still a little bit of prep to go though. What are your thoughts on dry start method for my moss?
> 
> I'm thinking I might get a mr aqua 20 long for my next tank. They have a really nice look. Or I might make my own. Or I have a 3ft tank under the house I might be able to cut down (height) to make it a little more suitable for planting.
> 
> And thanks for subscribing.  I'm guessing it's the light stand that you were thinking of making. One of the perks of having a few mig's and steel scraps at work. Made it in less then an hour on my lunch break.


I'll be honest my current tank is my first planted tank, and due to pressures of the old tank it was done submerged and stocked with fish not the best way to go, but generally everything seems to be good ATM good growth for most things and since the DIY co2 the rest has picked up.

I'm not sure I'd have the patience for the dry start, though they do seem to end with better results.


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## ineedfire (Jun 17, 2012)

Frontieruk said:


> I'll be honest my current tank is my first planted tank, and due to pressures of the old tank it was done submerged and stocked with fish not the best way to go, but generally everything seems to be good ATM good growth for most things and since the DIY co2 the rest has picked up.
> 
> I'm not sure I'd have the patience for the dry start, though they do seem to end with better results.


Ahk that's cool. You still have a lot of knowledge that I am yet to consume haha. I'm considering trying a dry start but I also don't have much patience. If it is worth the effort I will consider it.


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