# gravel cap over soil, would this be good?



## solchitlins (Sep 11, 2013)

I found this on craigslist. The guy bought it for a tank he never set up. I like it a lot but feel like a fool for even considering spending $60 on 150 pounds of gravel.
I like how small, round and smooth it looks


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## tdiggs (May 30, 2013)

Looks a little too big to me. I used pool filter sand with great results. Small enough to let the roots push through, but not to small to cause a lack of aeration (like play sand). I had some gas pockets in my soil and fine sand could also trap the gas even worse than pfs.


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## solchitlins (Sep 11, 2013)

I returned my pool filter sand because people said it was too hard to keep the air bubbles from forming pockets, people said to watch and learn from Dustin's fish tank videos on you tube. I watched and he said pool filter sand wiped out his tank and he won't use again, he uses gravel. etc....

LOL

I feel so confused, why is there so much conflicting info?

Anyways the pool filter sand is gone, I could buy it again but I'll feel stupid the guy at Leslie's already thinks I'm crazy. 

This is the pea gravel I bought and am contemplating using to cap my soil. It was $5 for about 80 pounds, if I don't use it I'll toss it down the woodchuck hole.




























as you can see the craigslist stuff is nicer, smaller, rounder, more colorful, etc.. but probably not worth $55 more in the grand scheme of things
v craigslist stuff again seen below:


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## lochaber (Jan 23, 2012)

solchitlins said:


> I returned my pool filter sand because people said it was too hard to keep the air bubbles from forming pockets, people said to watch and learn from Dustin's fish tank videos on you tube. I watched and he said pool filter sand wiped out his tank and he won't use again, he uses gravel. etc....
> 
> LOL
> 
> I feel so confused, why is there so much conflicting info?


I imagine there is nearly an infinite way to set up our tanks, and a lot of the time when something goes wrong, we have very little idea of what actually happened, and just suspicions and guesses. There are probably multiple contributing factors to a tank crashing, but us humans have pretty flawed brains, and tend to get fixated on a single idea whether or not there is sufficient evidence.

Anyways, I've never used pool filter sand myself, but it seems like it's a rather popular substrate, and a lot of people have success with it.

Anyways, $2.50/pound seems kind of expensive for substrate - I'm pretty sure you can get flourite and eco-complete for less than that, and regular old, no-CEC gravel should be even less. I guess it depends on whether you think it's worth it or not.

How big is the tank?


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## HuntCast (Aug 25, 2013)

The first gravel will work just fine, but you can find it locally for a lot less. I have also used playsand and pea gravel. Both work as well, only I would probably only use pea gravel on a bigger tank next time. It looked a little off in my 20g and 10g.
The trick with sand is to make it even, but not too thick. Also, if you have your dirt too thick it can really bubble up. Less than an inch of dirt, and no more than an inch of sand, and you will be fine.


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## solchitlins (Sep 11, 2013)

the tank has a foot print of 4'x2'


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## tdiggs (May 30, 2013)

lochaber made a good note in his first couple sentences.

For what it's worth, Dustin from dustinsfishtanks uses pool filter sand to cap his dirt in a few of his tanks in his greenhouse currently. I've even spoke with him on the phone once and told him I had dirt capped with pfs and he made no remarks about it. He likes to use estes brand black gravel, which is really about the same size as eco-complete for a little bit less per bag. As lochaber said, your better off buying eco complete based on the price of your local gravel per pound. Eco complete is about a $1.10 per pound from thatpetplace.com. Just bought four bags myself.

I used pfs and dirt in a 10 gallon and the plants took off. One drawf sag turned into a runner of nearly 6-7 in about 3-4 months time. I never had an issue with the pfs in that. On the flip-side I had dirt with pfs in my 75 gallon and there was a mound of issues. I suspect it was too much dirt in the 75, but nonetheless I couldn't blame the pfs after the great success in the 10g.


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## solchitlins (Sep 11, 2013)

that craigslist gravel is 40 cents per pound

the eco complete is 91 cents per pound on sale at petco online, $18.39 for 20 pounds

Is the first stuff fine to cap soil or bad idea?


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

Dustin's fish tank TV has a lot of opinion posted so I've been told, told here while answering threads posted by new members having problems.

Less than an inch of dirt, and no more than an inch of sand (2" total depth), and you will not have much of a root base in place limiting the size of the plants and that can be a challenge all by itself. If the base layer includes organics within a year it will collapse and compress by about 40%.

Gravel used as a cap tends to allow more water exchange equating to more tannin and small particulate release (messy). Using traditional round aquarium gravel leads many to complain about dirt tanks being messy. I would not use the rock pictured without a finer material mixed in to better seal the capping layer.

If you have the time and interest do a forum search for my posts and threads as most are potting mix / dirt tank related. Sand, Flourite, EcoComplete, blasting media and river gravel have all been tanked here without failure to date.


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## solchitlins (Sep 11, 2013)

I'm starting to think I should just skip the dirt and go low tech with fluorite, Eco complete or FloraMax or something.

I wanted to do dirt and gravel to be cheap but if it is going to be a mess I'm no longer sure.
I'm so completely frustrated. As soon as I make a decision I find it is no longer the right one. 

I would buy eco complete but in my tank it will cost close to $300.

lol, no people actually do this?


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

Setup correctly it's not a mess.

Having fish in the tank you feed them right?
To have plants you have to feed them too. :wink:

Root tabs are costly over time. Dosing the water column you need to understand the basic chemistry of it. Dirt tanking is no different in that it has a plus and minus involved as does anything really. Bang for the buck hands down it's the cheapest way to lush growth but know what you're doing before you dive into it. 

Fluorite, EcoComplete, FloraMax or anything else bagged on the shelf alone won't provide the results you hope for without additions of some kind. A little reading, a little planning and things can turn out really well. Just don't pull the pin to soon. Ask questions and look to see proof of a method before diving in.


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## solchitlins (Sep 11, 2013)

If I went back to my original plan.
Low tech,
1 inch soil,
capped with the pea gravel?
or go back and re buy the sand?
or do both?


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

Heres a couple recent threads on the pro's and con's

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=411594
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=419466


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## tdiggs (May 30, 2013)

solchitlins said:


> that craigslist gravel is 40 cents per pound
> 
> the eco complete is 91 cents per pound on sale at petco online, $18.39 for 20 pounds
> 
> Is the first stuff fine to cap soil or bad idea?


The way you wrote your first post made it sound like it was $60 for 150 lbs of it. Sorry.

Dirt is messy if you like to pull things up and rearrange. One reason why I converted to Eco-Complete with API First Layer and Flourish Tabs. I like to move things around. Other than that, I feel (and have experienced) dirt to be the cheapest and most successful method around. You do have to maintain a balance though, as with anything in the tank.


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## HuntCast (Aug 25, 2013)

wkndracer said:


> Dustin's fish tank TV has a lot of opinion posted so I've been told, told here while answering threads posted by new members having problems.
> 
> Less than an inch of dirt, and no more than an inch of sand (2" total depth), and you will not have much of a root base in place limiting the size of the plants and that can be a challenge all by itself. If the base layer includes organics within a year it will collapse and compress by about 40%.
> 
> ...


Less than an inch of soil and not much more than an inch of sand is good advice that I stand by, for someone who has never dirted a tank before, and for MOST plants that will be used in a low tech tank, that is plenty for the roots, but not so much that you will have to deal with the problems that deeper soil brings on.


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## solchitlins (Sep 11, 2013)

I can't spend $300 on eco complete so that's not an option.
It's dirt capped with gravel or sand or both.

or sell my lights and buy some plastic plants and south american cichlids


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## solchitlins (Sep 11, 2013)

tdiggs said:


> The way you wrote your first post made it sound like it was $60 for 150 lbs of it. Sorry.


craigslist gravel $60/150pounds = 40 cents per pound
eco complete $20/20 pounds= $1 per pound


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## solchitlins (Sep 11, 2013)

I can get 2 inches of eco complete for $130 
Is that enough for a low tech eco substrate tank or would I need more?


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## solchitlins (Sep 11, 2013)

btw I bought a giant bag of miracle grow organic choice potting mix $9

20 pounds organic garden soil,just encase I need extra $5

organic peat humus "moss" $2

I'm going to try to strain my pea gravel to a smaller size.

Now the question is should I put a small layer of pool filter sand between the dirt and gravel?


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## lochaber (Jan 23, 2012)

solchitlins said:


> that craigslist gravel is 40 cents per pound



Uh... yeah, I didn't get that math right... Thanks for the correction :/

I'm just going to blame it on sleep deprivation...


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