# Talk me out of using Seachem Flourish line



## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

So I am looking at switching from using the entire Seachem Flourish line and using the EI method probably going with NilocG Thrive. It is just such a pain dosing all the different products each day and also the wallet could use a break as I should save going with the all in one. I want to know is there any downside going with the EI? Is there still a case where you may need a specific macro/micro fert? I just like the idea of doing a few squirts and being done compared to having to use my spreadsheet with the schedule everyday plus Seachem is so pricey. I am relatively new to planted tanks so like many I started with Seachem but feel I should switch. Who here switched and did your plants take to the change in a good way or bad way? I plan on continuing to use the Seachem root tabs as that is just needed every few months anyway. Thanks ahead if time.


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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

I know how you feel, im still in the seachum line though... sadly... $$$
im hoping to switch to EI when my house is built finally


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## Zorfox (Jun 24, 2012)

There is nothing wrong with the Flourish line. They are all good sources of nutrients. Don't forget that it's not just fertilizers you will be switching. The amount you dose now will be increased SIGNIFICANTLY when using the EI method. You think Seachem Flourish line is expensive now? Try to use it dosing EI levels. :surprise:

I made a few calculations to compare prices. The mixtures are comparable to each other.

KNO3 1LB $3.00 makes 6.3 liters of Flourish Nitrogen. 
6.250 liters of Flourish nitrogen costs $87

KH2PO4 1LB $5.00 makes 10.5 liters of Flourish Phosphorus. 
10.5 liters of Flourish Phosphorus costs $144.94

K2SO4 1LB $3.00 makes 3.25 liters of Flourish Potassium. 
3.25 liters of Flourish Potassium costs $83.30 

Plantex 1 LB $12.00 makes 9.25 liters of Flourish comprehensive. 
3.25 liters of Flourish Comprehensive costs $137.38

*Grand total: $23 versus $452.62*

*5% the cost of Seachem's line*

The dry fertilizer prices are from NilOCG and the Flourish prices are from Doctors Foster and Smith.


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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

Zorfox said:


> There is nothing wrong with the Flourish line. They are all good sources of nutrients. Don't forget that it's not just fertilizers you will be switching. The amount you dose now will be increased SIGNIFICANTLY when using the EI method. You think Seachem Flourish line is expensive now? Try to use it dosing EI levels. :surprise:
> 
> I made a few calculations to compare prices. The mixtures are comparable to each other.
> 
> ...


 beautiful stats


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

Zorfox said:


> There is nothing wrong with the Flourish line. They are all good sources of nutrients. Don't forget that it's not just fertilizers you will be switching. The amount you dose now will be increased SIGNIFICANTLY when using the EI method. You think Seachem Flourish line is expensive now? Try to use it dosing EI levels. :surprise:
> 
> I made a few calculations to compare prices. The mixtures are comparable to each other.
> 
> ...


That is an incredible price difference. I knew it was much less but did not know it was that much less to switch. Crazy. :surprise: Thank you for posting that info. Very helpful indeed. I will for sure be switching when my Flourish ferts run out.


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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

also switching when, as I said, my house is built and my sixty five is up an running lol


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

To start off with I will probably just go with the easier All in one Thrive. Then down the road will probably try the dry fertilizer and mix myself as I know that will be the most cost effective. Baby steps :smile2:


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## MtAnimals (May 17, 2015)

Don't be afraid of the pre-measured EI package,The ferts are premixed,you just add distilled water to the 2 bottles and dose them every other day.The EI amunts are right on the side of the bottles,very simple.


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

MtAnimals said:


> Don't be afraid of the pre-measured EI package,The ferts are premixed,you just add distilled water to the 2 bottles and dose them every other day.The EI amunts are right on the side of the bottles,very simple.




Makes sense. May give it a shot. Have another 2 weeks or so left with my Flourish. I would like not having to pay for the water going dry route. 


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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

MtAnimals said:


> Don't be afraid of the pre-measured EI package,The ferts are premixed,you just add distilled water to the 2 bottles and dose them every other day.The EI amunts are right on the side of the bottles,very simple.


 link?


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## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

BettaBettas said:


> link?


DIY EI Liquid Fertilizer| Premium Aquarium Fertilizer | NilocG Aquatics


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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

jellopuddinpop said:


> DIY EI Liquid Fertilizer| Premium Aquarium Fertilizer | NilocG Aquatics


 so I just buy that, add five hundred ml of Distilled water? noice


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## MtAnimals (May 17, 2015)

BettaBettas said:


> so I just buy that, add five hundred ml of Distilled water? noice


yup! they supply 2 mixing bottles,one for micros,one for macros.Dump in the proper packet and fill with water and shake.


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## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

BettaBettas said:


> so I just buy that, add five hundred ml of Distilled water? noice


Yupp, that about sums it up! In addition to the money savings, you're going to love the dosing bottle. Just squeeze and pour, no more using caps and accidentally dumping way too much in your tank.

The only things I can add from experience:

1.) Use hot distilled water for the Micros. It can be difficult to get it to all dissolve in cold water. IF there is some precipitate, it's not the end of the world.
2.) Once all dissolved, store it in the fridge. It will grow mold if left at room temp. You can also add some excel to prevent the mold build up.


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## NickAu (Feb 24, 2017)

All way to complicated for my liking and all those chemicals OMG, everything you add to the tank ends up in your fish.

I put my pets welfare first, sure I will never have one of those fancy scaped tanks you often see on this forum but I dont care as long as my fish are happy and healthy. I did have a bottle of API CO2 booster and I threw it out * The stuff stinks and can't be good for the fish*, I will stick to my tried and tested method of fish poo and water changes. My tanks are lush enough without all this fertz CO2 and special lighting nonsense, 

I keep fish in planted tanks, I dont keep planted tanks with fish in them.


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## MUTigers (Oct 26, 2016)

We started with flourish and switched to thrive. The difference is amazing! Great growth with thrive! And the pump is so nice. When this bottle is gone we'll probably switch to his dry and mix our own. Thrive is just a tad heavy on the nitrates for us.


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

jellopuddinpop said:


> Yupp, that about sums it up! In addition to the money savings, you're going to love the dosing bottle. Just squeeze and pour, no more using caps and accidentally dumping way too much in your tank.
> 
> The only things I can add from experience:
> 
> ...


Awesome thank you for the info and the link. Well I am sold on the stuff and will be getting in a week or so. :smile2:

Bump:


MUTigers said:


> We started with flourish and switched to thrive. The difference is amazing! Great growth with thrive! And the pump is so nice. When this bottle is gone we'll probably switch to his dry and mix our own. Thrive is just a tad heavy on the nitrates for us.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sounds like a plan. But I could use the nitrates to be honest. My plants make sure of that


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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

@NickAu im doing a dutch tank that's what that was for lol  thank you for caring about fish though! I will be having some fish but not many. All under 1" not that that means anything different I do agree in some ways. Now these chemicals are human made I do believe? so they aren't natural? either way they don't do harm I do not think. In any way. I use seachem (every single product of fertz) and they work great, fish and shrimp are happy, hoppy, unaffected.
Im going to be honest with you I'd say with my experience with landscaping companys and being a nursery worker/slave, I am more about the scapes and fish than I am about the fish.
But I consider myself to love them equally as much since without the fish I'd be Bucked. And the fish are beautiful that im getting, and unfortunaly 100$ for 12


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## NickAu (Feb 24, 2017)

Im just trying to get my head around all these additives, Im a firm believer of " If I cant drink it, Then its not fish safe " I keep my tank water so clean its safe to drink even after a week in the tank.



> The active ingredients within Excel are potentially very toxic and care must be taken in its use. Glutaraldehyde will chemically burn skin, can damage your lungs if inhaled, and, if you somehow manage to get it in your eyes, can cause serious damage.


After I read that I decided to stop using API CO2 booster as it contains the same stuff, If it isn't safe for me to inhale the fumes, how is it safe to add to my tanks?


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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

API co2 booster sucks lmao, thrive is where it gets serious 

Nick I do however respect your concern.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

NickAu said:


> Im just trying to get my head around all these additives, Im a firm believer of " If I cant drink it, Then its not fish safe " I keep my tank water so clean its safe to drink even after a week in the tank.


Some people's drinking water has higher levels of some of these compounds than in our tanks.
Nitrates and phosphates for example, maybe iron even.
Potassium I am not sure.
CO2 @ 30ppm does not affect the live stock.

I am not a fan of Glut in the tank, I'll use as an out of tank plant treatment though.

You make it sound as if we are poisoning the water?


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## NickAu (Feb 24, 2017)

> You make it sound as if we are poisoning the water?


Am I? sorry.

Maybe I should start a thread that says " Talk me into using fertilizer and convince me its safe " 

However as the topic is " Talk me out of using Seachem Flourish line " I figured I would give my opinion as to why I think its unsafe and why the OP should stop using the products. 

I am a novice at all this high tech stuff my fish are healthy and happy so are my plants, but If you can show me a safer better way Im all ears.


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

NickAu said:


> Am I? sorry.
> 
> Maybe I should start a thread that says " Talk me into using fertilizer and convince me its safe "
> 
> ...


I do respect your opinion and really do appreciate you sharing it.


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## Pattern8 (Dec 9, 2015)

I was using the entire flourish line for over a year. Seachem makes great products but I too found dosing all the separate products tedious. However, it can be said that having separate products like they do allows one to customize the nutrient levels specific to ones tank. 
I've now been using green leaf aquariums ferts for about a month and believe there has actually been improvement. Again, Seachem s quality is outstanding but I believe the concentration was on the low side for what I was needing. I do still use Excel though. I hope this helps.


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

Pattern8 said:


> I was using the entire flourish line for over a year. Seachem makes great products but I too found dosing all the separate products tedious. However, it can be said that having separate products like they do allows one to customize the nutrient levels specific to ones tank.
> I've now been using green leaf aquariums ferts for about a month and believe there has actually been improvement. Again, Seachem s quality is outstanding but I believe the concentration was on the low side for what I was needing. I do still use Excel though. I hope this helps.


Thank you and it sure does help. I will be switching from excel to metricide since from what I have read works just as good and is much cheaper. Same stuff really. I will be going with the NilogC EI Liquid fertilizer. Have read great results with it.


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## Tinanti (Aug 25, 2005)

Flourish Nitrogen and regular Flourish are good products and I think worth it. Their Potassium and Phosphorus are easily replaceable with dry chemicals. You don't have to go all one or the other.


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## Charrr89 (May 15, 2013)

NickAu said:


> All way to complicated for my liking and all those chemicals OMG, everything you add to the tank ends up in your fish.
> 
> I put my pets welfare first, sure I will never have one of those fancy scaped tanks you often see on this forum but I dont care as long as my fish are happy and healthy. I did have a bottle of API CO2 booster and I threw it out * The stuff stinks and can't be good for the fish*, I will stick to my tried and tested method of fish poo and water changes. My tanks are lush enough without all this fertz CO2 and special lighting nonsense,
> 
> I keep fish in planted tanks, I dont keep planted tanks with fish in them.




And in that note, I don't keep fish for the same reason. And I'm a horrible fish keeper, but it's nice to know that people care about the chemicals going in to their fish. I have a seperate shrimp tank that I don't fert for the same reason. 


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## NickAu (Feb 24, 2017)

> And in that note, I don't keep fish for the same reason. And I'm a horrible fish keeper, but it's nice to know that people care about the chemicals going in to their fish. I have a seperate shrimp tank that I don't fert for the same reason.


I totally respect that approach. 

I absolutely adore some of the high tech/dutch tanks on this site but most of them are just not suitable for fish.

Most small fish we keep in this hobby like Tetras, Rasboras Bettas, Danios Gouramis Otos Corie's Loaches and Rams prefer subdued lighting with floating plants for cover and they are happiest in low PH acidic black water tanks, and thats kinda contrary to high tech EI dosing co2 injection type of tanks.

Just yesterday a member on this site wanted to know if he could have a pleco with carpet plants, the answer is no, because plecos will tear up the carpet looking for food and they truly do prefer low light, while carpet plants prefer bright light.


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

Got my NilocG DIY EI LIQUID FERTILIZER today. Mixing with RO water now. Took the advice and warmed up the water. Think I heated the water up a little too much so letting it cool down some as do not want to melt the dosing bottle. Going to also take advice of adding 10ml of excel to each bottle to prevent mold. Will start using tomorrow. Very excited.

Bump:


jellopuddinpop said:


> Yupp, that about sums it up! In addition to the money savings, you're going to love the dosing bottle. Just squeeze and pour, no more using caps and accidentally dumping way too much in your tank.
> 
> The only things I can add from experience:
> 
> ...


Took all of your advice. Think I heated up the water a bit too much though so letting it cool down some to not melt the dosing bottle. Also going to add the 10ml of excel to each set. Thanks for your advice.


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## Luke13 (Jan 23, 2017)

I'm just a newbie, but it sure seems like the folks here with hi tech planted tanks care quite a bit about their fishes too. Especially those with shrimps and such have to be really careful with the water quality. I've learned from this forum to stop even using hot water to bring the temp up with water changes because of the water heater condensing more unwanted heavy metals and such.

I agree that if something to help the plants is hurting the fish, then fish shouldn't be in the tank. But I just don't see that happening here. I guess it is a balance and a series of choices regarding priorities. Similarly, there is much to be said about processed "fish food", as opposed to always feeding live or frozen food. 

The proof is in the pudding here as much as anywhere. What good is a beautiful planted tank with unhappy fish? My fish have never seemed happier since I started an albeit modest fert regimen with DIY co2. They are happy (my best guess since they won't tell me) because of the lush plants! Just my perspective.


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

NickAu said:


> All way to complicated for my liking and all those chemicals OMG, everything you add to the tank ends up in your fish.
> 
> I put my pets welfare first, sure I will never have one of those fancy scaped tanks you often see on this forum but I dont care as long as my fish are happy and healthy. I did have a bottle of API CO2 booster and I threw it out * The stuff stinks and can't be good for the fish*, I will stick to my tried and tested method of fish poo and water changes. My tanks are lush enough without all this fertz CO2 and special lighting nonsense,
> 
> I keep fish in planted tanks, I dont keep planted tanks with fish in them.


This brings up a point and since there are always at least two sides to most stories, I will mention the other side of this one. While it is true that we often look at ferts as chemicals, it is also true that almost all things ARE chemicals. Water is made of chemicals! 
So the question can come around to whether we are potentially harming our fish with adding chemicals or might we also be harming our fish by running them in tanks which have very little of the normal amount of chemicals. 
I like having both sides of a story and don't mean to say either is wrong, just a question of how we look at the tank. I often see lots of concern about how we treat the fish, etc. but that is after we have already agreed to take them far from their natural state, put them in glass cages, under bright lights where they can't hide so that we can watch them. 
I have to face the fact that I love animals but then I also know that I abuse them quite frequently. Somewhere along the line, after eating eggs for breakfast, ham sandwiches for lunch and a steak for dinner, using ferts in my tanks, seems to be pretty low on the abuse scale? 

I appreciate all the other opinions out there but I have to say this is not going to be a big one for me.


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## NickAu (Feb 24, 2017)

> I often see lots of concern about how we treat the fish, etc. but that is after we have already agreed to take them far from their natural state, put them in glass cages, under bright lights where they can't hide so that we can watch them.


While my fish are in glass cages, they are not under bright lights unless you count 6 watts bright and they have lots of places to hide.

Yes this is safe to add to a tank?

Glutaraldehyde 
CAUTION: Do not eat drink or get into eyes. In case of eye exposure, promptly & thoroughly wash eyes with water & seek medical attention.


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## GrampsGrunge (Jun 18, 2012)

NickAu said:


> All way to complicated for my liking and all those chemicals OMG, everything you add to the tank ends up in your fish.
> 
> I put my pets welfare first, sure I will never have one of those fancy scaped tanks you often see on this forum but I dont care as long as my fish are happy and healthy. I did have a bottle of API CO2 booster and I threw it out * The stuff stinks and can't be good for the fish*, I will stick to my tried and tested method of fish poo and water changes. My tanks are lush enough without all this fertz CO2 and special lighting nonsense,
> 
> I keep fish in planted tanks, I dont keep planted tanks with fish in them.


Yeah but you live on the oldest, most eroded continent on the planet, I'm sure your tap water is a good mix of most of the necessary macros and some micros. Just add RO and CO2. :wink2:


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## MCFC (Feb 12, 2017)

NickAu said:


> Yes this is safe to add to a tank?
> 
> Glutaraldehyde
> CAUTION: Do not eat drink or get into eyes. In case of eye exposure, promptly & thoroughly wash eyes with water & seek medical attention.


Something that is safe for one organism isn't necessarily safe for another organism, and vice versa...


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## GrampsGrunge (Jun 18, 2012)

MCFC said:


> Something that is safe for one organism isn't necessarily safe for another organism, and vice versa...


 Cory at Aquarium Co-Op has had a few things to say about Metricide in his past Youtube vids, maybe a little alarmist, but the standard OSHA de rigor of handling this stuff involves donning splash proof gear, face shields and two layers of nitrile gloves.


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

It certainly is a dangerous world and there are lots of warnings as well, but how we each respond is always going to take some careful thought. Anybody read the warnings on silicone caulk? I don't know about you folks but I find it almost impossible to use a tube of caulk and not get it on my skin! 
It all gets back to when I was an innocent kid and the guys dared me to do things with the electric fence? You just have to find who you can trust and go with it! (inside joke for the farm kids out there!)


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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

pee on the electric fence... oh the good yet painful times
Loved that comment btw @PlantedRich


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## NickAu (Feb 24, 2017)

> pee on the electric fence... oh the good yet painful times


Been there done that as a drunk adult.


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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

NickAu said:


> Been there done that as a drunk adult.


 even better


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