# Are these ok as a subsrate?



## maxhrbal (Mar 19, 2016)

Perlite? The white stuff? If so, I think it's safe. Not 100% certain though. 


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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

maxhrbal said:


> Perlite? The white stuff? If so, I think it's safe. Not 100% certain though.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


perlite is equivalent to sand, so I think that should be ok as well, have to agree with you on that one. hoping someone who has used this has the in depth ok / not ok:help:


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## geisterwald (Jul 18, 2016)

The second one isn't organic, not a good idea. The one that specifies organic seems to be OK, if you search the name there's some other threads on it already and it seems to be about the same as any other organic soil.

Don't forget that any potting soil will leach ammonia.


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## MtAnimals (May 17, 2015)

I think you want the miracle gro organic choice potting mix.It comes in an orange bag.That's what I have.

https://www.hardwareonlinestore.com/images/stories/virtuemart/product/362876.jpg


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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

geisterwald said:


> The second one isn't organic, not a good idea. The one that specifies organic seems to be OK, if you search the name there's some other threads on it already and it seems to be about the same as any other organic soil.
> 
> Don't forget that any potting soil will leach ammonia.


Didn't know that, thank you for telling me :thumbsup:



MtAnimals said:


> I think you want the miracle gro organic choice potting mix.It comes in an orange bag.That's what I have.
> 
> https://www.hardwareonlinestore.com/images/stories/virtuemart/product/362876.jpg


I didn't see that at Home Depot, will have to try lowes I guess... The stuff in the green bag is ok though to I guess, so that's what I will go with  .


So in conclusion next time get the one that says Organic, on anything.. Thanks everyone! :nerd:


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## MtAnimals (May 17, 2015)

BettaBettas said:


> Didn't know that, thank you for telling me :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> I didn't see that at Home Depot, will have to try lowes I guess... The stuff in the green bag is ok though to I guess, so that's what I will go with  .
> ...


lowes and home depot here don't carry it,I found it at Tractor Supply company,same place as BDBS.

Also,I am trying dirt for the first time in a Nuvo 10 gallon,just set it up the other day,my journal is here :

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/12-tank-journals/1130058-nuvo-10-first-dirted-tank.html


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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

MtAnimals said:


> lowes and home depot here don't carry it,I found it at Tractor Supply company,same place as BDBS.
> 
> Also,I am trying dirt for the first time in a Nuvo 10 gallon,just set it up the other day,my journal is here :
> 
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/12-tank-journals/1130058-nuvo-10-first-dirted-tank.html


Haha, yea I saw lookin' good!


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## Kubla (Jan 5, 2014)

BettaBettas said:


> perlite is equivalent to sand, so I think that should be ok as well, have to agree with you on that one. hoping someone who has used this has the in depth ok / not ok:help:


Although perlite is made of the same stuff as some sand I don't see how it's equivalant. First off it's nearly as bouyant as styrofoam! 

The Nature's Care green bag has something added for water retention. Do you have any idea what it is? There's another recent thread about using soil with water retention additives and the overall response was don't do it. I sure wouldn't dump it in my tank not knowing what it is.


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## Bananableps (Nov 6, 2013)

Can you post some close up pics of the ingredients on the back? I too am worried about the "water retention" additive.

Perlite is okay, but very buoyant and irritating.


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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

Bananableps said:


> Can you post some close up pics of the ingredients on the back? I too am worried about the "water retention" additive.
> 
> Perlite is okay, but very buoyant and irritating.


Idk why the pics are sideways :frown2: sorry if that causes an irritation, I don't blame you lol 














These pics are of the "useable" green organic miracle grow (so they say)

Bump:


Kubla said:


> I sure wouldn't dump it in my tank not knowing what it is.


That's why im asking :nerd:


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## GrampsGrunge (Jun 18, 2012)

I used SpeedCoat Paver Setting Sand on my 20H that had what the bag called 'extra silicates' with a warning it might be an irritant. I really thoroughly washed the cloudy brown stuff out of it. In other paver sand mixes I've seen, have what is called 'polymers' and I'd definitely avoid anything with polymer based water retainers.


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## bbroush (Sep 13, 2012)

BettaBettas said:


> Idk why the pics are sideways :frown2: sorry if that causes an irritation, I don't blame you lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...




TBH it sounds like the same thing as MGOCPM with the addition of some calcium and peat moss. It doesn't sound bad to me.


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## GrampsGrunge (Jun 18, 2012)

I'm not sure I'm completely comfortable with composted chicken litter in the ingredients list. It's why I'm going to keep doing mineralised subsoil for any future tanks.


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## Bananableps (Nov 6, 2013)

BettaBettas said:


> _pics_


Yeah looks like the water retention is just from peat moss. I generally avoid peat-based soils because it's not a very environmentally friendly resource, it is wasted in aquariums (where you do not need water retention), and it can severely drive down your PH.

Your snails might dissolve, but otherwise it should be fine as long as you are careful about which fish you add.

GrampsGrunge's concern about the chicken litter is a good point, too. Might want to put some of this in a jararium capped with sand, then do some water tests over the course of a week or two. Check for ammonia, check for nitrates, check for PH.


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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

Bananableps said:


> Yeah looks like the water retention is just from peat moss. I generally avoid peat-based soils because it's not a very environmentally friendly resource, it is wasted in aquariums (where you do not need water retention), and it can severely drive down your PH.
> 
> Your snails might dissolve, but otherwise it should be fine as long as you are careful about which fish you add.
> 
> GrampsGrunge's concern about the chicken litter is a good point, too. Might want to put some of this in a jararium capped with sand, then do some water tests over the course of a week or two. Check for ammonia, check for nitrates, check for PH.


I think what ill do, since this has some side-effects. is ill go back to lowes one of these days and get some miracle grow organic potting soil, since I know many people have successfully used that without failure, just a confidence booster... ill throw this stuff into my greenhouse


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## cooledwhip (Apr 3, 2016)

Neither of them are... I've dirted many tanks before you should have come to me before asking about this.

Miracle Grow Organic Choice is the ONLY way to go.


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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

cooledwhip said:


> Neither of them are... I've dirted many tanks before you should have come to me before asking about this.
> 
> Miracle Grow Organic Choice is the ONLY way to go.


 Thank God I came back to look at this


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## cooledwhip (Apr 3, 2016)

BettaBettas said:


> Thank God I came back to look at this


yes miracle grow organic choice is the only route. I'm sure you can find some other natural ones but it's not worth looking as miracle grow organic choice is the easiest available option. Make sure to sift out some of the woodchips and stuff. I usually do one handful sifted dirt, one handful regular dirt. You don't want ALL the woodchips gone.


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## That fish guy (Mar 26, 2017)

Donot worry this will be absolutely safe provided that it is capped with something like sand.
The water retention thing is not active when it is completely sumerged in water.
It only works in drier environments.
Go ahead with confidence


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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

Thanks the both of you


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## reddhawkk (Dec 28, 2011)

I recently set up a 29 gallon tank using the Miracle Gro green bag stuff as I could not find the normal MGOPS in any of the stores around me. So far it seems to be doing well. The plants are doing well, except for some crypt melt, and the fish are also doing well. The only issue is the leaching of tannins staining the water, which I don't mind as I like blackwater tanks. The ammonia spike was high in the begining but came down quickly, and before adding fish. Overall it seems to be ok so far.


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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

sounds great @reddhawkk What type exactly? the Organic green bag I have in the pic


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## Bananableps (Nov 6, 2013)

cooledwhip said:


> yes miracle grow organic choice is the only route. I'm sure you can find some other natural ones but it's not worth looking as miracle grow organic choice is the easiest available option. Make sure to sift out some of the woodchips and stuff. I usually do one handful sifted dirt, one handful regular dirt. You don't want ALL the woodchips gone.


lol how much is Monsanto paying you?

Really though, this is completely false. I have used many other brands of soil without issue. As long as you avoid certain additives, you will be fine.


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## cooledwhip (Apr 3, 2016)

Bananableps said:


> lol how much is Monsanto paying you?
> 
> Really though, this is completely false. I have used many other brands of soil without issue. As long as you avoid certain additives, you will be fine.


"as long as you avoid certain additives, you will be fine"

No, my statement is not completely false. I don't have to worry about "certain additives" BECAUSE I chose miracle gro. Sure, there are many other options but like you said you have to "avoid certain additives", hence why I said just stick with miracle gro organic choice because it's just straight up natural dirt. It's also the best bang for your buck, best price per amount. 

How much is ADA paying you?


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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

I swear every thread I make has some kind of argument in it


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

Bananableps said:


> lol how much is Monsanto paying you?
> 
> Really though, this is completely false. I have used many other brands of soil without issue. As long as you avoid certain additives, you will be fine.


Think that is the point with this stuff is it does avoid the "certain additives" Of course there are others that work as well and the OP was just trying to figure out what is completely safe and what is not. And the Organic choice stuff is so win win. Helps for those like me that want to avoid getting the stuff that does have the bad additives and know this is for sure safe. Again not saying there isn't others out there that are just as safe.


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## reddhawkk (Dec 28, 2011)

Yes, the green bag in your pic.


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## cooledwhip (Apr 3, 2016)

clownplanted said:


> Think that is the point with this stuff is it does avoid the "certain additives" Of course there are others that work as well and the OP was just trying to figure out what is completely safe and what is not. And the Organic choice stuff is so win win. Helps for those like me that want to avoid getting the stuff that does have the bad additives and know this is for sure safe. Again not saying there isn't others out there that are just as safe.


No that's exactly what I'm saying... I mean obviously there are other types of dirt out there... any person could see that it doesn't take a genius to figure that out. The reason why the miracle gro is somewhat the only option is because it's the only one that ACTUALLY HAS no additives, it's the only one that is ACTUALLY all natural... sure there are some others out there like he mentioned but the whole freaking point of this thread was to find one without additives and the miracle grow is the only one without additives, (that is a bang for buck and best consistency of course)


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## thanatopsian (Dec 11, 2016)

For what it is worth, i have used black gold compost with consistent success. My advise is that compost is super nitrient rich, so i would mineralize it, cut it with sand or clay, or useless than the standard inch. I use mineralized/partially used soil collected when i re- pot my herb garden.

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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

thanatopsian said:


> For what it is worth, i have used black gold compost with consistent success. My advise is that compost is super nitrient rich, so i would mineralize it, cut it with sand or clay, or useless than the standard inch. I use mineralized/partially used soil collected when i re- pot my herb garden.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


 Thank you for the input.


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