# java fern leaf black.



## sayurasem

so i have some leaves that has some black color to it. is it dead/dying? should I cut that leave from the bunch?


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## kevmo911

Make sure the rhizome isn't buried - java ferns need to be above the substrate. Leaves with black color might continue to grow, but the black spots will never go away. If you don't mind losing some leaves, go ahead and cut them off.


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## Fishly

I have the same problem with my Java Ferns. Does anyone know what causes this?


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## dwc13

Are either of you using a DIY CO2 setup, especially with a larger tank? This could be an issue with the consistency of CO2 being made available. Java Ferns are normally extremely hearty plants tolerant of a wide range of environmental conditions. That being said, I have read others who have reported that fluctuating levels of CO2 are problematic for Java Fern and cause leaves to turn black.


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## sayurasem

kevmo911 said:


> Make sure the rhizome isn't buried - java ferns need to be above the substrate. Leaves with black color might continue to grow, but the black spots will never go away. If you don't mind losing some leaves, go ahead and cut them off.


what is "rhizome?" sorry i fail my biology class... the roots?

so i guess i bought caribsea flora max for nothing -__-? because i only have java ferns and java moss lol


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## wkndracer

rhizome is the stem part between the leaf and the crampons (roots) don't bury anything green in color on a java fern. CO2 isn't what caused my leaf spots but a lack of NO3 (nitrates)


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## FishFarmer

Not to be an a-hole here, but a rhizome is simply an underground stem that (usually) grows laterally which helps the plant propagate and spread. Some plants spread with a stem that's above ground, called a stolon. Java fern does not do well if it's entire root system is buried in the substrate. What wkndracer is referring to as a rhizome is actually the crown--this is the part of the Java fern that needs to be above the substrate.

And as far as pruning leaves, if they are too far gone and not giving much photosynthetic value to the plant, then don't feel bad about cutting it off.


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## Fishly

wkndracer said:


> rhizome is the stem part between the leaf and the crampons (roots) don't bury anything green in color on a java fern. CO2 isn't what caused my leaf spots but a lack of NO3 (nitrates)


My JF's rhizome/crown is dark brown, not green. And I know better than to bury the rhizome/crown.


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## wkndracer

just gave a simple answer to the OP's question.
I don't care *anything* about being an a-hole,,, if this is wrongly stated somebody should correct it as it's everybody's free reference.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhizome

This article is about the botanical term.
In botany and dendrology, a rhizome (from Ancient Greek: rhízōma "mass of roots",[1] from rhizóō "cause to strike root")[2] is a characteristically horizontal stem of a plant that is usually found underground, often sending out roots and shoots from its nodes. Rhizomes may also be referred to as creeping rootstalks or rootstocks.If a rhizome is separated into pieces, each piece may be able to give rise to a new plant. This is a process known as vegetative reproduction and is used by farmers and gardeners to propagate certain plants. Examples of plants that are propagated this way include hops, asparagus, ginger, irises, Lily of the Valley, Cannas, and sympodial orchids.

The Quaking Aspen (Populus tremuloides) is an example of a tree that propagates using a rhizome. Aspen clonal colonies in the American West, such as the large Pando colony in Utah, may have been living for over 1 million years. The rhizome of an aspen colony is the key to its longevity. Foragers, insects, fungus, and forest fires may destroy the above-ground portion of the tree, but the underground rhizome is somewhat protected against these threats.

A stolon is similar to a rhizome, but, unlike a rhizome, which is the main stem of the plant, a stolon sprouts from an existing stem, has long internodes, and generates new shoots at the end, such as in the strawberry plant. In general, rhizomes have short internodes; they send out roots from the bottom of the nodes and new upward-growing shoots from the top of the nodes. It is a method of reproduction for plants. A stem tuber is a thickened part of a rhizome or stolon that has been enlarged for use as a storage organ.[3] In general, a tuber is high in starch, for example, the common potato, which is a modified stolon. The term tuber is often used imprecisely, and is sometimes applied to plants with rhizomes.

Some plants have rhizomes that grow above ground or that lie at the soil surface, including some Iris species, and ferns, whose spreading stems are rhizomes. Plants with underground rhizomes include gingers, bamboo, the Venus Flytrap, Chinese lantern, Western poison-oak,[4] hops, and Alstroemeria, and the weeds Johnson grass, bermuda grass, and purple nut sedge. Rhizomes generally form a single layer, but in Giant Horsetails, can be multi-tiered.[5

If that's published with the wrong terms I really don't care LOL



FishFarmer said:


> Not to be an a-hole here,


Me being true to my nature,,, it took me only a very short time lending advice and offering opinions to realize whenever I typed anything like that immediately following it I proved otherwise. (but that's just my experience, your mileage may vary)


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## Karackle

*Sayurasem *- i think the point here is that the thick part of the root system that the leaves are physically growing out of needs to be above the substrate with a Java Fern because it requires light too (as with Cryptocoryne and Anubias species). I have personally only ever heard of that part of these plants referred to as the Rhizome (as opposed to the crown) and I think you'll find that that is the way most folks on here refer to it, that's not to say that "crown" is incorrect, i'm not sure if it is. HOWEVER, if your java ferns are planted correctly (rhizomes _above_ the substrate) then I imagine something else is causing your leaves to turn black and you will have to wait for someone else to chime in on that part as I am not sure what the cause is, aside from potentially being low Nitrates as with Wkndracers java ferns. Personally, I was NEVER good at growing java ferns at my old apartment near Albany, NY and then I moved down to NJ and all of a sudden I can grow them. So who knows :tongue:


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## sayurasem

i created a chaos.

thank you very much for all the information! and I think this is why most of the java fern pictures I've seen are "attached" to a driftwood.. not burried under substrate lol.

ok I get it now...

-btw, I see several babies java fern "attached" to some of my java fern leafs...

should i detach these tiny java fern babies or just let it be?


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## Fahnell

if your plant is new in the tank this is rather normal
let it be.
btw you can also cut ALL the leaves and in some time new ones will appear from the rhiozome in a few weeks
For the anubias/java ferns the most important part is the rhiozome and not the leaves. take care not to get it in the gravel

a general tip for java fern is to have a decent concentration of iron in the water and a decent flow. and also try to keep whatever water params you have in place. it is a herdy plant so it will adapt..but keep the params constant


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## sayurasem

ah i see ty.

just need some flow in my tank I see some dust on the leaves already.


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