# Show off your uncommon tetras!



## AdamRT (Jan 23, 2018)

With so many new species becoming more and more available to hobbyists, I wanted to start a thread where people can highlight some of their less-common/rare tetras. This can include hard to find species or unusual color phases of more common species. Please include the tank parameters in which they are kept and any other information that may benefit other hobbyists interested in trying their hand at some of these rare gems! 

I just picked up some Stictus (red base tetras) and will post some pics as soon as they color up, but for now here is one of my Loreto tetras:


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## D.Farci (Mar 15, 2016)

Looks like the image didn't come through...  I'm interested to see those tetras in full color, as they didn't look too colorful in our tanks. 

I'm increasingly impressed with Hemigrammus coeruleus, but they are too big for my liking and I have only witnessed them in stores. They don't always have the bright red and deep black color like the google photos, but when they get it, it's very evident.


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## AdamRT (Jan 23, 2018)

I have a small group of 8 of these guys in a 20 gallon high. PH 6.2 temp 76f they max out a little over an inch and eat frozen daphnia, cyclops, new life spectrum pellet, and tubifex/blood worms. Great little alternative to black neons that shoal loosely and are very peaceful.

Bump: Yeah I’m having a hard time with photos for some reason, but there is a nice shot of one in my gallery. I’ll try to get this sorted and post again.


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## D.Farci (Mar 15, 2016)

AdamRT said:


> I have a small group of 8 of these guys in a 20 gallon high. PH 6.2 temp 76f they max out a little over an inch and eat frozen daphnia, cyclops, new life spectrum pellet, and tubifex/blood worms. Great little alternative to black neons that shoal loosely and are very peaceful.
> 
> Bump: Yeah I’m having a hard time with photos for some reason, but there is a nice shot of one in my gallery. I’ll try to get this sorted and post again.


I like the look of Loreto's, with their red tails. I actually meant I wanted to see some photos of your H. stictus, because they didn't look like much in our tanks.


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## AdamRT (Jan 23, 2018)

Haha they didn’t look like much when I got them in on Friday either. I’ve got them set up in a 20 gal planted tank in my office, so I’ll be interested to see how they look tomorrow. 

I had asked the guys at the wet spot to keep an eye out for them, and got a call on Thursday that they actually had 7 in an unmarked tank for the last few months they’d sell for $4 each. I jumped on it and by Friday morning they were at my door in ny (haha I’m still amazed by next day air shipping for some reason). 

They came in very fat and healthy, but no red showing at the base of their tails. What I did notice was a very attractive blue green metallic sheen over their entire bodies, so they should be stunners if/when the red comes in. I’m planning a 120 (was going to be a 150, but I chickened out and decided to scale it back), that will feature mostly tetras from Columbia (wild caught cardinals, rummynose, and stictus) but I’m also going to mix in some of the more rare Peruvians like H. Rubrostriatus, H. Melanostichos, and H. Margitae. Haha I’m calling it an “amalga-tope” since I’m using all plants and fish from similar environments in SA that aren’t geographically linked. 

According to mokji, Stictus naturally school with cardinals in clear water spring-fed streams, that tend to run cooler than the black water streams where they’re also found. I plan to keep them around 78F to start and will tweak based on how the fish and plants respond. 

Anyway back to the Stictus, they were eating frozen daphnia and chasing around the bloodfins by the end of the day on Friday, and they were all still looking very good so I’ll post some pics tomorrow am when I’m back to work. They’re an underrated fish IMO, but I think they’re an absolutely gorgeous tetra with a subtle understated beauty. If I see any spawning behavior in the 120 I am going to pull a pair of them and try to raise the fry in an outside container over the summer.

For some reason when I go to add an attachment, I can’t get back out of the “manage attachments” page to my message. It’s like the “close this window” buttons do not work... any thoughts?



























Bump:


















Bump: The above are a few shots of my loreto tetras and my office tank that they live in with the Stictus (temporarily) and a few bloodfins


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## mbkemp (Dec 15, 2016)

Beautiful!


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## AdamRT (Jan 23, 2018)

Thanks! I’m a property manager, so a lot of the people I deal with come in to the office upset about one thing or another (to give you a sense of what I mean- I had a resident come in the other day to complain about the amount of noise their neighbors cat makes when it runs around), and the tank does a great job of calming people down. 

It’s hard to stay pissed off staring at a nice planted tank! 

Anyway, the loretos are going to stay in the 20 and the Stictus will join 60-70 wc cardinals, 25 H. rubrostriatus, 25 H. Margitae or blue loretos (depending on what’s available), some smaller groups (like 10-12) H. Coreleus, H. Melanostichos or hexastichos, Phoenix tetras, and 2-3 pairs of apistos in the 120 at home. 

Should be a fun tank!


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## mbkemp (Dec 15, 2016)

AdamRT said:


> Thanks! I’m a property manager, so a lot of the people I deal with come in to the office upset about one thing or another (to give you a sense of what I mean- I had a resident come in the other day to complain about the amount of noise their neighbors cat makes when it runs around), and the tank does a great job of calming people down.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Please share pictures when that is completed. Those are all beautiful fish!


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## AdamRT (Jan 23, 2018)

Will do- Should be soon. Haha the floor in my sitting room where the tank is going is covered in boxes of equipment/substrate/rocks etc. and if I don’t get it cleaned up soon my wife is going to kill me!


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

In 180 gallon tank:

Phenacogrammus aurantiacus









Hemigrammopetersius pulcher









hyphessobrycon pulchripinnis 'orange red









30 gallon
hyphessobrycon nigricinctus










Tucanoichthys tucano


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## mbkemp (Dec 15, 2016)

Wow! DL, great pictures


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Thanks, Mike


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## mbkemp (Dec 15, 2016)

Those tucano are calling to me. Why am I ok spending that on an apisto and not a tetra?


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## rafini (Oct 25, 2015)

I really like those Tucanos!
never seen those nigricinctus either... Some nice tetras!

Bad quality pics incoming

Brycinus longipinnis









triportheus angulatus


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## AdamRT (Jan 23, 2018)

Discusluv, your fish look amazing... Those nigricinctus and tucano are the nicest looking examples of the species I’ve seen in a home aquarium!!! The orange lemons are really nice as well- I really like the idea of a mixed school of lemons and orange lemons (although there is some talk of them actually being different species). 

I’d really appreciate if you could talk about your experience with each of these fish- stuff like preferred foods, temperament, social interaction, swim zones, hardiness, preferred water parameters, etc. 

All three of those guys are on my wishlist, so any insight you could share would be a great help.


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## AdamRT (Jan 23, 2018)

Quick update on my stictus tetras- they all broke out with a pretty bad case of Ich over their first weekend in the tank, which I discovered when I came back to work on Monday. 1 has passed away over the weekend and I lost another that Wednesday. But if the 5 that remained, all recovered and are now doing quite well. 

Upon seeing ich in the tank (which remained limited to the stictus and a single spot on my male gbr), I immediately began dosing both microbelift herbtana and their other one for bacterial infections (forget the name) and added a 9w UV sterilizer to the tank (20 gal). Within two days of adding the uv I noticed a marked improvement and a week later the ich was gone and all scales had healed beautifully. 

I also performed 30% water changes daily to remove as much of the water borne ich as possible. The remaining 5 stictus responded much better than I had expected (I had assumed I was going to lose all of them), and went from being extremely shy and tentative to being almost as boisterous as their bloodfin tankmates. 

Behavior: Even though there’s only 5 of them (or maybe because there’s only 5) they school as tightly as any fish I’ve seen. They seem to appreciate the added flow from the uv sterilizer and spend a lot of time swimming together in the current. They will periodically chase the bloodfins if one of them tries to “hang out” with them, but I haven’t observed any fin nipping and they immediately stop chasing as soon as the bloodfin gives them their space. I’ve seen no signs of aggression towards the loreto tetras or any of the shrimp in the tank (just a few Amanos, ghost, and grass shrimp as part of the cleanup crew). When not swimming in the current, they tend to hover together in the lower leaves of ludwigia ovalis, where they calmly graze on air roots. 

The most interesting thing I’ve observed with them is that they appear to be largely herbivores. I’ve seen them pick at the ludwigia air roots, and they are constantly eating the tips of the runners the hydrocoytle japan (not sure if that’s the correct name, but I’m talking about Japanese clover). The plant nipping is not so bad that its a problem. for every runner they nip, two start growing in its place so the growth of this plant has actually picked up a little since I got these fish. They are very fond of emerald entree and spirulina brine shrimp, slightly less interested in daphnia and bloodworms (though they still eat them), and will take omega one mini pellets, but usually only nibble a little before spitting them out. Thankfully their grazing on the aquarium plants has them all nice and plump! 

I’ll post some pics later today- still no red showing at the base of their tails, but they are a lovely metallic amber-bronze color with a stripe of metallic green sheen running along their sides. While I don’t think I would purchase any more of these guys if they don’t show the red base which is their namesake, so far they appear to be a very viable community tetra with interesting personalities and behaviors. They school with cardinal tetras in the wild so I plan on moving these guys to the 120 once it’s been running for a few months. 

Water parameters: they’re doing well at 76-78f, ph 6.0, kh 2, and seem to appreciate having high flow and low flow areas which they use intermittently.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Thank you AdamRt

The nigricinctus are very hardy. They are wild specimens which (as are all the tetras I posted pictures of above).
They do come from waters of low organics, so the tank they are in gets a 75% water change weekly. 
They eat a wide-range of foods. I feed NLS Freshwater flake as staple and then rotate freeze-dried blackworms ( they love), frozen bloodworms with spirulina, frozen brine-shrimp, and occasionally, beefheart. 
They are primarily insectivores in wild, so need a high protein diet.
Tank is at 78 degrees, good flow, lightly planted, driftwood.
Temperament: extremely docile ( would not do well but with aggressive fish), no fin nipping of other fish. Schoaler, not a tight schooler.
The females are coming to age, breeding form, and this summer I will attempt to breed them. Here is an article I found to breed them:
Breeding the Imperial Tetra (Full Article) | Details | Articles | TFH Magazine®

The Tocano tetra is solitary.
I had a group of 6 in a 10 gallon that decided to spring a leak at 11:00 at night and lost the other five. An expensive loss.
Its really hard to evaluate this breed as it is solitary and I am not getting the full benefit of natural behaviors. Right now he is hanging out with the nigrcinctus. 
He eats heartily everything that feed the nigrcinctus. The temperature is a bit cool for him-- they like temperatures closer to 80-82 degrees. Been looking for more Tocano's so can put him back in a 10 gallon with his kind- have not yet located any others... I am actively looking.
This is the tank they are in:









The Orange Lemons, which are a group of 20, are in my 180 gallon South American tank with geohagus sveni and neambi, biotodoma cupido and wavirini, corydoras eques and brochis splendens, and the two African tetra varieties I pictured above. 

This tank is at 78 degrees, is medium- low tech planted, driftwood, rock, sand.
This variety stays at mid level of tank and will often go to bottom of tank to feed. I have a heavily planted background of valisneria which the group inhabits on one side of the tank. In my tank, it doesn't school, but prefers to hang out as a group in the tall valisneria. During feeding it will leave this area and go throughout mid to lower levels. Its behavior was a surprise to me-- thought it would school like your more common Lemon tetra- but its behavior is quite different. 
They eat a varied diet and are hearty eaters: NLS flake, Spirulina pellet, cichlid pellet, freeze-dried black-worms with spirulina, frozen blood-worms. 
This tank gets 2- 50% water changes weekly as geophagus and biotodoma sp. require a pristine water quality, like discus.
Im sure the Lemons dont require such a frequent water changing schedule, but they have certainly benefited from it. 
As far as temperament, they are very docile to one another, rarely do i see any con-specific aggression-- some light chasing occasionally.
This is the tank they are in:









Wasn't sure if you wanted info on the African tetras-- i certainly can add some info on them as well if you like.


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## AdamRT (Jan 23, 2018)

African, South American, Central American- if it’s not something you see in petsmart every day, it’s all good! I don’t have any at the moment, but I love all the different varieties of African tetras that are slowly becoming more available in the states... I don’t know if it’s a lack of knowledge that they exist or the high price tag many of them command, but they’re totally underrated imho. So any info you can offer on the care of different alestids in addition to tetras from the americas would be a welcome addition to this thread! 

It’s not really my thing, but it would be great if someone could start another thread for uncommon cyprinids since there a number of really cool rasboras, danios, and barbs showing up that are outside of the norm as well.


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## RollaPrime (Jul 27, 2018)

This thread is right up my alley!


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## Triport (Sep 3, 2017)

@rafini do you have the Triportheus angulatus now? They are one of my favorite fish. They are where I got my screen name for this forum. I have kept them twice but they are super rare in the hobby and I haven't seen them for years. Where did you get them? I thought about asking The Wet Spot if they could source some for me but I currently don't have a tank big enough for them so it will have to wait until I move. 

Tetras are my favorite type of fish so I have a few less common ones.

Yellow-tail Congo tetras - Alestopetersius caudalis Sadly these guys and other Congos seem very susceptible to gas bubble disease so I lost of all these after a water change. Because of them I completely changed the way that I do water changes. 

Alestopetersius caudalis by Kaveh Maguire, on Flickr

African Red-cap moon tetras - Bathyaethiops breuseghemi

Bathyaethiops breuseghemi (red cap moon tetras) by Kaveh Maguire, on Flickr

Alestes tetra - Brycinus longipinnis. This guy is the sole survivor of the gas bubble disease outbreak that wiped out most of the rest of my Congos. I have loved these guys since I kept them when I was in college back when they were almost impossible to find. I had them with a few Triportheus sp. and they were all so awesome. I wish I had photos of that tank but it was pre-digital cameras. 

Brycinus longipinnis (Alestes tetra) by Kaveh Maguire, on Flickr

Lamp-eye Congo tetras - Phenacogrammus aurantiacus. Probably my favorite fish at the moment and I am glad they are more commonly available now even though they are super expensive.

Phenacogrammus aurantiacus by Kaveh Maguire, on Flickr

One-line African tetra - Nannaethiops unitaeniatus. Fairly closely related to Distichodus sexfasciatus I think so it is possible that they are the ones that nibble on my Anubias but it could be the other Congo tetras as well. I have 3 of these guys left and have had them longer than almost any other fish I currently own.

Nannaethiops unitaeniatus by Kaveh Maguire, on Flickr

Reed tetra - Hyphessobrycon elachys. If you want a small (about an inch) heavy schooler these are an excellent choice. Especially in a larger tank. The males often display to each other and court the females with their extended dorsal and ventral fins but the rest of the time they school pretty well. 

Hyphessobrycon elachys (male) by Kaveh Maguire, on Flickr

Candy cane tetra - Hyphessobrycon sp. HY511. A favorite since I saw them on a trip to Japan. Unfortunately these are like a canary in a coal mine for letting you know if you have been negligent on water changes. They are very prone to pop-eye if you let the nitrates build up.

Male Hyphessobrycon sp. HY511 (candy cane tetra) by Kaveh Maguire, on Flickr

Red-line tetra - Hyphessobrycon amapaensis. Mine are geriatric now and a few have some slightly crooked spines and they all have a bit of an opaque white film on some of their scales but they are very hardy. I have had them all for 3 and a half years and haven't lost a single one. Not the most exciting tetras because they are pretty mellow but very pretty. 

white film on Hyphessobrycon amapaensis by Kaveh Maguire, on Flickr

And one last pic. A group shot of my reed tetras.

Group of Hyphessobrycon elachys (reed tetra) by Kaveh Maguire, on Flickr


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Beautiful fish @Triport.

Thats interesting, I didn't know the African tetras were more susceptible to gas bubble disease. 

Many years ago I noticed that when I did water changes the mucus of my discus would come off in folds and they would cluster in the corner with clamped fins. I was told that I should age my water, so that it could gas off before adding to aquarium. I didn't really want to do that because I was doing daily water changes because they were juveniles. My husband suggested I stuff the python tube ( the hard plastic end) with filter floss to slow down the flow; with this, the micro-bubbles would be forced (by the pressure) to come together and come out tube in larger bubbles that would burst at the top of the water line. 

It worked perfectly, the discus no longer shed their mucus layer and swam around normally when adding back water to tank. I now do it with all my fish no matter of what kind.


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## Triport (Sep 3, 2017)

Yeah for anyone using a Python I recommend A. never use water colder than what is in the tank and B. make sure the Python remains above the surface of the water so that it is splashing at the surface rather than under the water. Both these things should help. I play it safe and fill a trash can with water overnight and heat it and aerate it. 

I have definitely lost smaller SA tetras to it in the past (without realizing what was happening) but it was usually just a few fish and often fish that were already stressed from something. My Congos were the only time I had a catastrophic loss of a large amount of healthy fish. From what I understand large Congos do not travel very well either.


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## Tsin21 (Sep 24, 2017)

Here's a photo of my HY511 when I first got them last May:








Here's a youtube video of them feeding and dancing:
https://youtu.be/UkFQhfIk4KY


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## RollaPrime (Jul 27, 2018)

Triport said:


> Group of Hyphessobrycon elachys (reed tetra) by Kaveh Maguire, on Flickr


The speed at which I opened youtube to see thes beauties in action must be a record, or at the very, least a personal best!


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## Triport (Sep 3, 2017)

They are really great little fish. I have added Corydoras hastatus to the tank recently and they share the same markings. I'm hoping they will school together. They did in another tank where I kept them together.


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## FreshPuff (Oct 31, 2011)

*mountain crystal tetra*

https://www.aquariumglaser.de/en/fish-archives/mountain_crystal_tetra_leptagoniates_pi_en/

Got about 6 of these guys. Very peaceful and they have a really nice silver shine to them.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

FreshPuff said:


> https://www.aquariumglaser.de/en/fish-archives/mountain_crystal_tetra_leptagoniates_pi_en/
> 
> Got about 6 of these guys. Very peaceful and they have a really nice silver shine to them.


Very nice tetra- unusual, for sure.


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## SaltyJ (Jul 8, 2018)

Y'all have some really nice uncommon tetras.


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## Kalyke (Dec 1, 2014)

I love tetras and have a tank full. I do not have any rare, unusual ones. The "rarest," which is not rare, are diamond and bleeding heart. However, I do see a lot of the candy cane tetra in their shape.


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## RollaPrime (Jul 27, 2018)

FreshPuff said:


> https://www.aquariumglaser.de/en/fish-archives/mountain_crystal_tetra_leptagoniates_pi_en/
> 
> Got about 6 of these guys. Very peaceful and they have a really nice silver shine to them.


Stunning!

They look like were built for speed.


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## AdamRT (Jan 23, 2018)

Those crystal tetras are awesome! I noticed wet spot had some up for sale recently as well as an “ornate crystal tetra” which i think is also referred to as a hummingbird tetra... it’s part of a complex of dwarf tetras from Peru that are really colorful and def on my list for the 20 gal office tank rescape coming soon! 

Thanks to all for explaining your water change routines for your rare tetras! I was surprised to see such large volumes of water being changed at once. When I start approaching 50% in a large tank, I get freaked out over the rapid change in parameters it could cause. 

It’s too much water to go with straight rodi water without at least some remineralization but if I do remineralize or cut with tap water, it ends up being so close in ec/tds to the water I’m removing that It negates the main reason I change water in the first place! (To remove dissolved solids/reset the ec back to my base range of 225-250 microsiemens). 

I’m curious to see the parameters of the replacement water when you’re changing out 75% at once. Is it pure rodi, a mix of rodi/tap, do you remineralize to predetermined ec/tds, or do you base the water quality on some other metric? Also curious to hear how your plants respond to such large changes. 

Until recently I’ve had a very light bioload in the 120 but I’m now up to about 60 fish (not counting clean up crew). I’m anticipating that I’ll need to increase my water changes from 30% a week to closer to 50% but I hate wasting water and I really hate disposing of nutrient laden water back in to the watershed, so I’m wondering that I can lower the % changed by using pure unmineralized rodi to basically just dillute the minerals and nutrients already in the system back to my base level. 

My only concern with this method would be the eventual accumulation of one or more elements that isn’t being utilized as quickly as others or depletion of a given element like calcium or magnesium over time. Love to hear how you guys pull off these large wc’s without stressing the tanks inhabitants!


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## Triport (Sep 3, 2017)

Right now for my South American tanks I am doing a 50/50 mix of tapwater and RO aged at least overnight before I do the water change. The fish don't seem to mind as long as it isn't right out of the tap. Originally my 36g tank was straight tap water so to acclimate the fish to the softer water I did a series of smaller water changes over about 3 or 4 weeks and I didn't notice any problems. I think I may have started with 1 part RO with 2 or 3 parts tap water too but I don't remember.


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## FreshPuff (Oct 31, 2011)

RollaPrime said:


> Stunning!
> 
> They look like were built for speed.



Thanks! I wish I had a better picture to show how silver they are. 
They seem to like to hangout in the gentle current area of the tank. They don't really dart around. They mostly stick to an area and just chill.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

AdamRT said:


> Those crystal tetras are awesome! I noticed wet spot had some up for sale recently as well as an “ornate crystal tetra” which i think is also referred to as a hummingbird tetra... it’s part of a complex of dwarf tetras from Peru that are really colorful and def on my list for the 20 gal office tank rescape coming soon!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I’ve only been keeping plants in my tanks for the last year. Fish I know, plants are a new set of factors I’m just beginning to understand. But, plants needs will always be secondary to my fish. That said, I didn’t know about tds or ec numbers until recently ( I have been keeping fish for a very, very long time). I did look at pH and how stable it was within a 24 hour period. If you had movement of .4 within 24 hours- need to age water. Fortunately, my water is very stable. My fish have no ill effects no matter how large or frequently change water. My plants, however, that’s a different story. 
I was having signs of magnesium deficiency in plants, so recently started using Equilibrium. I’ve noticed that plants are better. 


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## RollaPrime (Jul 27, 2018)

FreshPuff said:


> Thanks! I wish I had a better picture to show how silver they are.
> They seem to like to hangout in the gentle current area of the tank. They don't really dart around. They mostly stick to an area and just chill.


How long have you had them?


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## FreshPuff (Oct 31, 2011)

RollaPrime said:


> How long have you had them?


Hmmm I think it's been about 3 months now.


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## AdamRT (Jan 23, 2018)

I read that the crystal tetras are very tight schoolers. Have you noticed this with your group?


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## FreshPuff (Oct 31, 2011)

AdamRT said:


> I read that the crystal tetras are very tight schoolers. Have you noticed this with your group?


I would agree that they are schoolers. I have a total of 6 in a 49 gallon aquarium. 4 of them behave like glass catfish where they just tightly swim in unison together in one spot of the tank where there's a gentle current from the outflow. The other two are adventurous and explore the tank most of the day. I would like to have more of these in a larger tank... Would make for some great schooling.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Pic of lamp-eyes from last night.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Discusluv said:


> Pic of lamp-eyes from last night.


You've got to STOP posting pics of those!! I keep trying to talk myself out of them. Then I see yours and I KNOW I have to have them. I need to stop procrastinating and remove the Neons as they are just a reservoir of disease..


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

The Wetspot has some _phenocogrammus fantastique _ -- I am forcing myself to look away. Ugh these Congos's are beautiful.
Isn't this a variety that you were looking for @Triport ?

I just recently ordered 7 of the _Alestopetersius cf. nigropterus_ and 2 of the _Alestopetersius Brichardi "Red"_ ( all they had left). Ill take a video soon- they are amazing. 

Here is someone else's video of the _Alestopetersius cf. nigropterus_. Mine look just like this.


https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/...iew&id=1&vid=fea598fdacb31811c51c35c99d7413cb

And the _A. Brichardi_. Again , not my video. 
https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/...=e370fbd22cd27720ad2aed228fe43b7e&action=view


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## Triport (Sep 3, 2017)

UGH. Of course they have Fantastique now. I just closed on my new house today and am months away from setting up my new larger tanks and moving in to the new place. And probably it will be months after that before I can even afford any new fish. But hopefully this is a sign that they will get them in again. The species I actually REALLY want is Phenacogrammus sp. Orange Makoua. But Fantastique are awesome too and if they have them when I am ready I might just have to pick up a dozen. Leaning toward getting a 150 gallon (5 feet long approx 2 feet deep and tall) for the African tetras and maybe for the Corydoras tank too. Just to start out my new fish room. But that may change. I have to play around with it a bit and see what will be the best way to go (and see what I can afford). 

Thanks for letting me know!


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## SusieQues (Feb 15, 2018)

The Dude1 said:


> You've got to STOP posting pics of those!! I keep trying to talk myself out of them. Then I see yours and I KNOW I have to have them. I need to stop procrastinating and remove the Neons as they are just a reservoir of disease..




Get some! I don’t believe in restraint 


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Triport said:


> UGH. Of course they have Fantastique now. I just closed on my new house today and am months away from setting up my new larger tanks and moving in to the new place. And probably it will be months after that before I can even afford any new fish. But hopefully this is a sign that they will get them in again. The species I actually REALLY want is Phenacogrammus sp. Orange Makoua. But Fantastique are awesome too and if they have them when I am ready I might just have to pick up a dozen. Leaning toward getting a 150 gallon (5 feet long approx 2 feet deep and tall) for the African tetras and maybe for the Corydoras tank too. Just to start out my new fish room. But that may change. I have to play around with it a bit and see what will be the best way to go (and see what I can afford).
> 
> Thanks for letting me know!


 I just found a reputable source here in the states ( one that I have used a few times) that has the _phenacogrammus sp. Orange Makoua._ But, I wont say where, that way you wont feel too bad. :wink2:



But, bright side: I have never seen them before, so now maybe they will be coming more available in states :smile2:

Actually, now that I look at it it says, _alestopetersisus sp. Orange Makoua_. I wonder if it is misidentified? 
P.S. Nope. He has both an _alestopetersius and a phenacogrammus sp._ listed as Makoua=- interesting.


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## Triport (Sep 3, 2017)

I doubt they are fully described so it will be some time before they are confirmed as Alestopetersius or Phenacogrammus or something else. Orange Makoua just indicates the collection area I assume. Hopefully it will be properly described soon and all these cool tetras will become more available.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Triport said:


> I doubt they are fully described so it will be some time before they are confirmed as Alestopetersius or Phenacogrammus or something else. Orange Makoua just indicates the collection area I assume. Hopefully it will be properly described soon and all these cool tetras will become more available.


 Took a video of mine today
Here is the ones I have had for awhile:
phenocogragrammus auerentius
Hemigrammopetersius pulcher 
And recently added:
Alestopetersius nigropterus "Orange Flash" 
Alestopetersius hilgendorfi? ( This one was substituted or sent by accident from vendor)
Alestopetersius brichardii "Electric Blue"


https://vimeo.com/300887101


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## Triport (Sep 3, 2017)

Alestopetersius brichardii "Electric Blue" is interesting. I think I have seen this before in a Facebook group but they were calling it something else. Wasn't so sure about Hemigrammopetersius pulcher from photos and video but then I saw them in person at The Wet Spot last year and they look really nice. 

Not sure what fish I want to add when I get my bigger tank. Definitely more Brycinus longipinnis because I am down to just one. They are a favorite of mine because I kept them when I was in college. Also need to add to my Bathyaethiops breuseghemi group. The Wet Spot only sent me 3 because they said the rest of them didn't look too good. Maybe more Nannaethiops unitaeniatus. I think I am down to 3 from my original 6. I think I have had them longer than almost any other fish. And I have 13 Phenacogrammus aurantiacus but strangely only one male. I am hoping it is just because the tank is too small and only the dominant male has developed fin extensions. Hoping when I put them in a larger tank some others will show up. But if not I may get a few more.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Here is a video of my Tucano tetras. I need to get more, they are very hard to acclimate. Lost 9 of 12 last time I introduced into aquarium within 12 hours. This is common. Near impossible to acclimate.



https://vimeo.com/301280035


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## mbkemp (Dec 15, 2016)

Those Tucano are really nice! Plants are looking good too


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

mbkemp said:


> Those Tucano are really nice! Plants are looking good too
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks, Mike!:smile2:


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## mbkemp (Dec 15, 2016)

I hope the smoke is not too bad for you guys? My brother in law is still in Napa, they had to cancel school 


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

It is horrible, Mike! Class was canceled at San Francisco State for me on Tuesday and Wednesday. I have been staying in the house pretty much for the last week- going outside very little. But, its fine, been studying anyways.


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## mbkemp (Dec 15, 2016)

Be well!

I hope it starts raining soon


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

mbkemp said:


> Be well!
> 
> I hope it starts raining soon
> 
> ...


Next week, thank goodness.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Just got a group of _beautiful_ alestopetersius brichardi "Red" from Wetspot a few days ago.
They are still settling into quarantine, but eating robustly.
Have proactively treated them with a three day dose of Praziquantel and will be dosing with flubendazole in a couple days. Besides that, will just observe, but dont see any likely problems as are very healthy for wilds from Africa.

These are central African and only found in Lake Mai-Ndombe in the Democratic Republic of the Congo.

Map:https://wikivisually.com/wiki/Lake_Mai-Ndombe

https://vimeo.com/304025664


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## Mr. Limpet (Dec 26, 2010)

I found this bad boy when he was about an inch long as bycatch in a tank full of wild rummynose tetras. Crenuchus spilurus is a really bizarre characin which acts more like a dwarf cichlid.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Mr. Limpet said:


> I found this bad boy when he was about an inch long as bycatch in a tank full of wild rummynose tetras. Crenuchus spilurus is a really bizarre characin which acts more like a dwarf cichlid.


Oh wow! That is an unusual characin. I had to look that one up. Very cool.

PS. A cave spawner and builds pair bonds? That is definitely out of the norm. Yes, more cichlid like.


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## Triport (Sep 3, 2017)

What is the story with alestopetersius brichardi? Do they only color up when they are breeding or do they get more colorful as adults?


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Triport said:


> What is the story with alestopetersius brichardi? Do they only color up when they are breeding or do they get more colorful as adults?


 I think the issue is this:


_"These Tetras have sexual dimorphism, in other words, the physical appearance differs between the males and females. The females are much more drab in finnage and coloration, basically they are the polar opposite of the brilliant males. They still hold the blue sheen, a smaller caudal spike, and slight orange coloration."_


More females may be out therein the trade then males.I may have all females. But, they do get redder every day and when they get out of a bare quarantine tank I think they may be brighter. Regardless, I am very happy with them In person they are stunning.


Here is the article that I got the quote from. Check it out.





"https://aquabiota.wordpress.com/2012/11/23/alestopetersius-brichardi-the-cherry-red-congo-tetra/


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## Triport (Sep 3, 2017)

Would be odd if you had all females. How many are there total? But then out of my 11 P. aurantiacus I seem to only have one male so I guess it isn't impossible.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Triport said:


> Would be odd if you had all females. How many are there total? But then out of my 11 P. aurantiacus I seem to only have one male so I guess it isn't impossible.


There are 7.


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## Akeath (Dec 28, 2009)

Ooh, I have some that are hard to find, at least. It took me years to find out what these actually were, they were sold as Hemigrammus rodwayi, Gold Tetras, but they clearly aren't. They have a completely different body shape. I've finally identified them with some certainty as Hemigrammus vorderwinkleri. These are not intentionally caught for the pet trade, they come in as contaminants with true Gold Tetras. These guys are very interesting because they love to school with other fish species. They have a stripe mid-body that they will actually change in color depending on the coloring of the school they are trying to join. In the attached picture the stripe is blue, as they were currently trying to fit in with some Praecox Rainbows. At other times the stripe was orange to fit in with Espei Rasboras, or Gold to fit in with Gold Tetras. When I had a large group of 10 or so of these in my 75 gallon they managed to lure, species by species, all of my schooling fish into one giant mega school. Unfortunately I haven't ever seen a pet store online or in person carry these since, and it has been ten years since I was able to purchase any. I only have a couple left alive at this point. In addition to schooling with other fish species they are peaceful, hardy, and active little guys. I kept them at pH levels of 6.8 and 6.4 and they did well in both, with hardness levels of between 8 and 10 dGH and a temperature of 75 degrees. I've kept them with Rasboras, Rainbows, other peaceful Tetras, Corycats, Dwarf Plecos, Honey Gourami, and Dwarf Cichlids and they did well with all of them. Truly a wonderful fish. They tend not to chase or display as much as true Gold Tetras, but love to school tightly with whichever midwater schoolers will allow them to.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

akeath said:


> ooh, i have some that are hard to find, at least. It took me years to find out what these actually were, they were sold as hemigrammus rodwayi, gold tetras, but they clearly aren't. They have a completely different body shape. I've finally identified them with some certainty as hemigrammus vorderwinkleri. These are not intentionally caught for the pet trade, they come in as contaminants with true gold tetras. These guys are very interesting because they love to school with other fish species. They have a stripe mid-body that they will actually change in color depending on the coloring of the school they are trying to join. In the attached picture the stripe is blue, as they were currently trying to fit in with some praecox rainbows. At other times the stripe was orange to fit in with espei rasboras, or gold to fit in with gold tetras. When i had a large group of 10 or so of these in my 75 gallon they managed to lure, species by species, all of my schooling fish into one giant mega school. Unfortunately i haven't ever seen a pet store online or in person carry these since, and it has been ten years since i was able to purchase any. I only have a couple left alive at this point. In addition to schooling with other fish species they are peaceful, hardy, and active little guys. I kept them at ph levels of 6.8 and 6.4 and they did well in both, with hardness levels of between 8 and 10 dgh and a temperature of 75 degrees. I've kept them with rasboras, rainbows, other peaceful tetras, corycats, dwarf plecos, honey gourami, and dwarf cichlids and they did well with all of them. Truly a wonderful fish. They tend not to chase or display as much as true gold tetras, but love to school tightly with whichever midwater schoolers will allow them to.


very nice!


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Orange- Lemon Tetras


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## Botia dude (Feb 6, 2005)

One of my favorite tetras. The Tucano Tetra. Great size for nano tanks but a 45x30cm or larger aquarium is recommended. Likes soft water and is supposedly tough to breed in captivity. I have not tried. 

Tucanoichthys tucano : named for the Tucano Indians which are native to the upper rio ***** and rio Uaupés (Vaupés in Colombia) regions in Amazonas state, Brazil and Vaupés department, Colombia.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Botia dude said:


> One of my favorite tetras. The Tucano Tetra. Great size for nano tanks but a 45x30cm or larger aquarium is recommended. Likes soft water and is supposedly tough to breed in captivity. I have not tried.
> 
> Tucanoichthys tucano : named for the Tucano Indians which are native to the upper rio ***** and rio Uaupés (Vaupés in Colombia) regions in Amazonas state, Brazil and Vaupés department, Colombia.


Yep, I agree. Beautiful tetra. I have 6 in my 30 gallon and have six more coming next week. They have been very hard for me to acclimate- but if they get through the first 24 hours they are very healthy.


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## Botia dude (Feb 6, 2005)

Discusluv said:


> Yep, I agree. Beautiful tetra. I have 6 in my 30 gallon and have six more coming next week. They have been very hard for me to acclimate- but if they get through the first 24 hours they are very healthy.


I got 5 from an LFS. I should have bought out their stock but they were a bit pricey. Perhaps they'll be back soon or I can order more online at some point. I think they're great for something like a 20g long in a bigger school.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Im surprised you found them at a LFS! You must have a nice one. 
Oh! I see you are in Livermore. What is the name of the fish-store?


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

Ghaa people! Are you trying to drive me insane with all this eye candy  ?

Nah, I'm great at doing it myself. I've been raking my brain and the web for a tetra suitable for my yet another upcoming tank, this one at 120g+ and centered around Angels. Everything I personally can think of is either too small, too nippy, too plant hungry, too far away from Americas, or have only been seen once.

Please keep the "uncommon" coming!


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Come get these Orange-lemon tetras, @OVT. They are not nippy at all and do well in warm water with Angels. I have 17 of them.  They are yours. 
I want to make more room for African tetras.

See the lily in the tank in video: It is one you gave me. I just transferred into this tank from my discus tank. It is a little stressed from that move but it is very healthy!

Here is a video of them:

https://vimeo.com/manage/306523129/general


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

This is the next African tetra I have my sites on:

_phenocogrammus fantastique_


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

Discusluv said:


> Come get these Orange-lemon tetras, @OVT. They are not nippy at all and do well in warm water with Angels. I have 17 of them.  They are yours.
> I want to make more room for African tetras.


Temptress! But seriously, thank you. That tank will not be ready untill the end of January, the earliest.

Why not get another tank?


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## Botia dude (Feb 6, 2005)

Discusluv said:


> Im surprised you found them at a LFS! You must have a nice one.
> Oh! I see you are in Livermore. What is the name of the fish-store?



Neptunes Aquatics in San Jose. SFBAAPS is having a meet there on the 22nd. SW is their real deal but they do well on the FW side too. There's actually an SFBAAPS meeting there on the 22nd of this month. New members are always welcome.


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## Triport (Sep 3, 2017)

Aaaaaaarrrrghhhhh!

Was up in the Portland area to visit my sister for Christmas and we stopped at the Wet Spot yesterday (as I do every time I visit her). They had Phennacogrammus 'Fantastique" in the store. Super tiny (cardinal tetra size) so not colored up but it just made me want them anyway. I am months away from being able to get any new fish though because of renovations on my new house. I hope they are available (and I have money left over) in a few months. 

They had something they are calling Phenacogrammus cf. major as well but I haven't been able to find out enough about that fish to determine if they have the real thing. They looked rather like the ones they were calling copper tetras last year.


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## Triport (Sep 3, 2017)

Oh they also have Brycinus nurse (pronounced nurs-ay) but sadly I think those are out of the question for me. From videos I have seen they get quite huge and move very fast and I think would be better off in a 6-8 foot aquarium. I think I am going to go with 5' - 100 gallons max for now.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

The Fantastique will be perfect for my 30 gallon. I have redone it as African Congo Biotope-ish tank.
But, then I bought the Altums spontaneously and with little thought so needed a place to quarantine - they are hanging out here until pass the muster.


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## ranitomeya (Jun 6, 2018)

I've been looking for Ornate glass tetras/hummingbird tetra (_Trochilocharax ornatus_) locally for nearly a year, but my usual shop couldn't get them in or didn't want to, so I ordered a group from my former LFS, the Wet Spot. 





















Opalescent.













They're very bold so far -- much more so than my green neons and ruby tetras. Sadly, those dart for the plants when I reach my hand into the tank, these guys couldn't care less. Maybe that will change once they settle in more, but I hope not. The males are interesting to watch as they flare their fins and spin while sizing each other up. 

I'm fairly confident I have 5 females and 12 males. A bit more skewed than I would have liked, as I intend to try breeding them. Maybe this is due to males being larger and easier to catch in the store(?)

I've noticed some injuries to mouths and fins that hopefully should heal naturally on their own. Should they develop into more serious conditions like Columnaris or Ich I'll treat accordingly. If they get ich, I hope they can tolerate water around 87ºF, as I'm not sure the usual ich medications would be safe as these fish are scaleless. Anyone have experience in this area?

More troubling is that several of them have cloudy areas within their flesh as seen in this picture:










Glass catfish are known to exhibit similar symptoms when stressed and/or near death but I'm hoping that maintaining clean conditions will help them stay healthy. I'll probably observe for a few days to see if symptoms of any diseases develop and if not, then I'll dose some praziquantel and maybe feed metronidazole flake food. 

Anyone have any experience with these guys? It's hard to find any articles or videos on their care, and breeding reports are rarer. I found one series of videos and an article on them, but it's in Japanese. The author noted that once the white/opaque regions appeared on the fish, it died shortly afterward. Let's hope that doesn't happen.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Wow! That is an extraordinary fish! Your photography skills are pretty great as well. 
What kind of a set-up do you have your group in? 

I found the following resources for you. I have kept many species of tetras, but not this one. 

Trochilocharax ornatus ? Hummingbird Tetra ? Seriously Fish

https://www.fishbase.se/summary/Trochilocharax-ornatus.html


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## ranitomeya (Jun 6, 2018)

Thanks for those links! I'm borrowing a better camera and macro lens from my brother-in-law this weekend so I'll try and get some more shots. I'd love to get a video of the males sparring, but it's tough. 

Right now I've got them in a low tech 20 long with a colony of cherry shrimp, driftwood, some branches, java fern, moss, fake plants for extra cover and some Catappa leaves. Filtration is a Hamburg matten filter. The tank is bare bottom so keeping it spotless and vacuuming up waste is easier. I'm also keeping it bare because it will eventually be converted to a spawning setup and I'll need to see the eggs or fry on the bottom before removing the adults. 

Once mature, all shrimp and most of the fish will be moved to a display tank with a few pairs left behind to spawn. That's all assuming I can get them to breed. I did observe some courtship behavior between one of the smaller males and a female earlier tonight -- fins flaring and circling the female and following her very closely, etc.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

ranitomeya said:


> Thanks for those links! I'm borrowing a better camera and macro lens from my brother-in-law this weekend so I'll try and get some more shots. I'd love to get a video of the males sparring, but it's tough.
> 
> Right now I've got them in a low tech 20 long with a colony of cherry shrimp, driftwood, some branches, java fern, moss, fake plants for extra cover and some Catappa leaves. Filtration is a Hamburg matten filter. The tank is bare bottom so keeping it spotless and vacuuming up waste is easier. I'm also keeping it bare because it will eventually be converted to a spawning setup and I'll need to see the eggs or fry on the bottom before removing the adults.
> 
> Once mature, all shrimp and most of the fish will be moved to a display tank with a few pairs left behind to spawn. That's all assuming I can get them to breed. I did observe some courtship behavior between one of the smaller males and a female earlier tonight -- fins flaring and circling the female and following her very closely, etc.


 Excellent! You should start a journal of this tank and your journey with getting them to spawn because it would be very helpful for others- even if you are not successful. If you are, even better 
As you can see there is not much information out there on these fish so its important for others to see them,--the environment that makes their care successful, feeding, breeding, etc... 

Keep the photos coming...


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## EdWiser (Jul 14, 2015)

Love the Wet spot I always get great fish from them and they carry a lot of rare fish that most LFS struggle to find for you.


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## EdWiser (Jul 14, 2015)

ranitomeya said:


> I've been looking for Ornate glass tetras/hummingbird tetra (_Trochilocharax ornatus_) locally for nearly a year, but my usual shop couldn't get them in or didn't want to, so I ordered a group from my former LFS, the Wet Spot.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Here is a video from that Japanese website which is quite good. Let’s you see the fish at least since google translate doesn’t work with video text.


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## ranitomeya (Jun 6, 2018)

Got a few more pics this weekend but haven't had time to play with the camera I borrowed. 

A couple more T. ornatus have developed the cloudy white symptoms, despite eating well. One has a raised fluffy white patch which seems similar to symptoms of Columnaris. 

Parameters:

pH 7.3
KH 2.5
GH 7
Ammonia/nitrite/nitrate 0/0/5

This one's entire body is significantly more opaque than the others. I noticed him getting picked on and sparring quite a bit with some other males.









Here's one with the fluffy white spot.









Detail:









I've got kanamycin and furan-2, but would prefer not to use these unless it's surely Columnaris. Several have deterioration of their mouths, which could just be injury rather than disease.

Any ideas?


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

ranitomeya said:


> Got a few more pics this weekend but haven't had time to play with the camera I borrowed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Deterioration on mouth: can you explain that more. Do you mean erosion of tissue? Yes, that would be serious and would make treating ASAP important. Or, Do you mean areas of bacteria with fungal growth, but no erosion? This would warrant a different approach. 

This fish with the white area- is it eating? Swimming normally with group? 


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## ranitomeya (Jun 6, 2018)

Discusluv said:


> Deterioration on mouth: can you explain that more. Do you mean erosion of tissue? Yes, that would be serious and would make treating ASAP important. Or, Do you mean areas of bacteria with fungal growth, but no erosion? This would warrant a different approach.
> 
> This fish with the white area- is it eating? Swimming normally with group?
> 
> ...


Thanks for your feedback!

On some of the fish it looks like tissue has eroded or abraded but I'm not seeing the classic "cottony" growth so I'm not sure. 

Here's what I believe to be a healthy individual with no damage:









Here's one with something going on with its mouth:









In my last post, the first pictured fish has a white growth on its lower lip that wasn't noticeable before today. 

The one with the white patch near its tail is schooling and eating like all the others -- none appear to be too stressed but I've read that glass cats become opaque when stressed and eventually die. The Japanese blog posted above also mentions they turn opaque shortly before dying. 

Maybe these guys really need acidic water? I could add peat to the filter to lower pH, but it would be ideal if they could adapt. The shipping water they arrived in had a pH of 8.5. 

The males are frequently flashing their fins at each other and squabbling, but I'm not sure how to discourage fighting apart from putting them into other tanks, which wouldn't be ideal if they do in fact have a disease. I've stuffed in loads of plants to break up lines of sight but the males seem to prefer schooling together and frequently sparring to their rivals. One pair of males locked heads together and were aggressively swimming against each other around the tank for about 10 seconds. I thought they had somehow gotten their gill plates stuck together but then they separated and went back to foraging. Definitely more exciting to watch than my other tetras. Perhaps the white patch was from a nasty battle wound, but I can't be certain. I'll observe it to see if it grows.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

If were my fish I would be doing daily water changes of at least 25% for first week and treating with Paraguard. Those troubling areas on fish need to be kept clean and Paraguard will work as an antiseptic ( along with frequent water changes which will keep bacterial load low in water column). 
Not sure how long you have had them? Regardless, ~ frequent water changes are in line. 
Paraguard, with the methelyne blue, malachite green, and acriflavine work as an antibacterial and anti-fungal. But, I am much more proactive with medications than others because I have a lot of knowledge of medications from 3 decades of raising fish and study. 

Do you know your TDS number? Your KH is low, so I think your total TDS would be lower as well. But, I am certainly no expert on this.
But, I do have wild Altums ( wild geophagus, discus, etc...) in water that is pH 7.4; kh 2/gh 5 that are very healthy and robust. My TDS ranges from 115-130 during the year.


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## ranitomeya (Jun 6, 2018)

Discusluv said:


> If were my fish I would be doing daily water changes of at least 25% for first week and treating with Paraguard. Those troubling areas on fish need to be kept clean and Paraguard will work as an antiseptic ( along with frequent water changes which will keep bacterial load low in water column).
> Not sure how long you have had them? Regardless, ~ frequent water changes are in line.
> Paraguard, with the methelyne blue, malachite green, and acriflavine work as an antibacterial and anti-fungal. But, I am much more proactive with medications than others because I have a lot of knowledge of medications from 3 decades of raising fish and study.
> 
> ...


I've got Paraguard and methylene blue handy. With scaleless fish, Seachem recommends starting with 1/4-strength Paraguard dose and working up to a 1/2-strength dose. 

I think I'll do a 1/4-dose tonight and re-dose after daily 25% WC's -- if I don't see any signs of stress or symptoms worsening I might increase to 1/2-strength. 

I received them on Thursday morning. 

TDS is 130 in the tank at the moment, and 120 from the tap.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

A new _hyphessobrycon_ species just described- _Hyphessobrycon peugeoti,_.











The color on this characin is unreal! The deep red coloration tends to be pretty rare in characins. ~ Did some quick searching on domestic vendors and found one source; but @ 40.00 each a bit too steep for the everyday aquarist as yet. 
Price should go down if easily bred in aquarium; but, no guarantee that they will be-- some are, some remain elusive to breeders. 

This is a beautiful fish.


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## shattersea (Sep 6, 2013)

> They're very bold so far -- much more so than my green neons and ruby tetras.


Now that you've had these guys for a bit, how are you finding their temperament? I'm considering them for a 10 gallon lagoon tank. It's hard to tell from the pictures and videos I've seen - would you consider them nano sized?


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## ranitomeya (Jun 6, 2018)

shattersea said:


> Now that you've had these guys for a bit, how are you finding their temperament? I'm considering them for a 10 gallon lagoon tank. It's hard to tell from the pictures and videos I've seen - would you consider them nano sized?


They're great so far. They practically eat from my hand and never hide. My green neons and ruby's get spooked pretty easily. I haven't seen much of them in the past couple of weeks. They're definitely nano-sized. My largest males are just over an inch long and I believe that's about as big as they'll get. If I can get them to breed, I'll probably put a group of juveniles in a 10 gallon blackwater tank currently occupied by some Sundadanio margarition. 

Right now I just want to make sure they survive long enough to breed. I'm still dealing with them developing white patches in their flesh I believe is due to stress caused by my water parameters. They probably prefer softer, more acidic water than I have so I'm currently trying to soften and acidify with peat and catappa. Until I move to my new place in June and install an RO/DI system and reservoir to store it, I'll be transporting RO/DI water from my work once a week in buckets. This means water change frequency will drop, but if it's really my parameters are stressing them out and not nitrate accumulation they should be fine with it.

If you're seriously considering them, you may want to move somewhat quickly on the ones the Wet Spot has. This species does not come in to the U.S. regularly at all. Maybe a few times a year? Hopefully I can figure out the white patch issue and report back so others will have good luck with them.


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## shattersea (Sep 6, 2013)

My water isn’t that soft either. I do water changes with tap and top offs with distilled. My ph is generally 7.6. I may not be able to create the best environment for them.


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## hyperheide (Oct 3, 2020)

Hi, 

so I see that this topic hasn't been updated for quite a while now. Still, I'd be very interested to know what happened to the hummingbird tetras. Did they make it or not? I have been searching for info about them in german forums, where two people had kept them, but in both cases the tetras died after some weeks. Probably, I will not dare to try to keep them myself. Especially not, if nobody else succeeded in keeping them alive... 

All the best, 
Heide


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## ranitomeya (Jun 6, 2018)

hyperheide said:


> Hi,
> 
> so I see that this topic hasn't been updated for quite a while now. Still, I'd be very interested to know what happened to the hummingbird tetras. Did they make it or not? I have been searching for info about them in german forums, where two people had kept them, but in both cases the tetras died after some weeks. Probably, I will not dare to try to keep them myself. Especially not, if nobody else succeeded in keeping them alive...
> 
> ...


I ended up giving my remaining fish to a friend who breeds Apistos and Corydoras to see if his water parameters could save them but they all eventually died after displaying the white cloudiness. I asked the Wet Spot if they had any issues with theirs and they had this to say:

"When the fish first arrived, we noticed it on some of the larger ones, and kept them for 5-6 weeks before putting them up for sale. In that time period, we did not lose any, but the white patches did not seem to respond to anything either. We only noticed it on some of the fish, and we tried to avoid sending those out once orders were coming in. Unfortunately we did not notice any significant issues beyond being slightly more pale than normal in a few of the fish (out of 200+), so it is very frustrating to hear that the fish you received have not been doing well.

For a full run-down of what we’ve dealt with: We received the fish at the beginning of February. A few of the larger ones exhibited white patches. We tried treating them with antiparasitic meds at the start but quickly moved onto antibiotics. We have seen Glass Catfish exhibit similar symptoms in the past and the combination of meds we used usually clear them up, but it didn’t seem to affect the tetras in the same way. We also saw a similar thing happen with some Kubotai Rasboras this past week, and the meds seem to have worked instantly. Since they acclimated, we have only lost 5 fish (through 4 months). We have sold nearly 200 and have around 25 left which seem to be doing okay. There are still several with white patches that are much larger – likely the ones that initially had it that we have avoided catching.

I am wondering whether water parameters have an affect on the lethality of the problem, since that might explain why your fish have not done well and ours, at the very least, have not worsened any. We keep our tanks around 7.8 pH with very little hardness (I would guess lower than 150ppm). The room is 75-78° and they get fairly frequent, small water changes. How does your water compare? From the little I’ve read about them, they are likely softwater species that like lower pH.

I hope this helps in some way. We were not aware that the white patches were damaging the fishes as we have not heard from other customers, so I would like to see if we can narrow down our options for treatment and find something that works."

They're great fish and my favorite tetra species, but I personally won't buy them again until someone can definitively answer what causes the white patches and eventual death. Info on them is extremely limited as they're not commonly found in the hobby, but from what I've found several other people have had the same issues. Even in extremely soft, acidic water meant to replicate their supposed habitat they succumb to the condition. They are scaleless so I wonder if that makes them more susceptible to some other factor we haven't yet considered. 

That said...the Wet Spot has some in stock right now if someone wants to see if they can figure it out!


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## rzn7z7 (Aug 17, 2013)

ranitomeya said:


> They are scaleless so I wonder if that makes them more susceptible to some other factor we haven't yet considered.



A scale-less tetra? I didn't know there was such a thing


Bob's Tropical Plants has them, too


https://www.bobstropicalplants.com/shop/en/schooling-fish/1134-tetra-unknown.html


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## Patson (Mar 4, 2013)

Living in Canada here and I have also been looking for humming tetras for years.

Finally got some of them shipped from the east coast by the end of August. And yes some of my fish are plagued by the white patches too... Maybe around 5-6 of them which I have moved to another smaller tank.

The rest seem quite healthy (around 40 of them) in my 20g, let's hope they will survive...

Water is pretty soft here (close to TDS 20-30) , sometimes it's too soft that I need to add minerals to raise it to around TDS 100. Other tankmates are otocinclus and snowball shrimps.

They are very beautiful little fish, I would be quite sad if they will eventually succumb to some unknown illness in captivity 

Short clip 1 month after getting them


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## Triport (Sep 3, 2017)

Male Phenacogrammus 'Fantastique'. I need to get a new photo of them they have colored up a bit more.

Young male Phenacogrammus sp. Fantastique by Kaveh Maguire, on Flickr

Male Alestopetersius brichardi

Male Alestopetersius brichardi by Kaveh Maguire, on Flickr


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## hyperheide (Oct 3, 2020)

Hey ranitomeya, 

thanks for the very detailed answer. Even if the fish didn't make it in your aquarium, I think it's even more important to collect all possible data. So your communication with the store will probably be very useful for others. I am surprised that the store kept the Hummingbirds at pH 7.8. That seems a lot. 
One more question about your hummingbirds: What did you feed them? Do you think that a reason for the white patches could be some lack of nutrients? Maybe they have some special diet in their original habitat.
I can definitely see, why you don't want to get new ones. But somebody out there must have an answer to the white-patch-condition.

All the best, 
Heide

Bump:


Patson said:


> Living in Canada here and I have also been looking for humming tetras for years.
> 
> Finally got some of them shipped from the east coast by the end of August. And yes some of my fish are plagued by the white patches too... Maybe around 5-6 of them which I have moved to another smaller tank.
> 
> ...



Hey Patson, 



Will you pleeeaase update us on your hummingbirds. I will subscribe to your youtube-channel to not miss anything. The ones in the videos look soo nice. Some of them must be super tiny, right?


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