# German Blue Rams (and a thank you!)



## newday3000 (Nov 4, 2009)

I have 4 in a 75G, I wouldn't put much else in the 10G. I think they are fine in a 10G but wouldn't put more than a couple other small fish in the tank.


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## redfalconf35 (Feb 24, 2008)

I have always heard that the minimum is 20g for a GBR and 29g for a pair


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## MChambers (May 26, 2009)

*I'd vote no*

I think 10 is too small, and I also think that 10 gallon tanks tend to have more fluctuations in water quality, which would be a problem for a German Ram.

Sorry.


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

MarieB, Welcome to the forum! I think 10g is too small as well, although I have kept them in a 10g before... 

I would recommend looking into Badis badis or Dario dario. They're smaller, amazing looking as well, and very interesting personalities. 

Cool to know you're keeping them in a dorm with the 10g rule in place, are many other people keeping aquariums where you are? I'm about to try and start marketing heavily to my peers and try and get aquariums really popular in dorms. 

-Andrew


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## MlDukes (Nov 24, 2009)

Ive kept a mated pair of rams "in a 46g" for a while now, beautiful fish! I dont see why there would be an issue with keeping 1 ram in a 10 tank?? Ive seen many people including myself keep even larger fish in a 10g, not saying its always the best idea but.... Rams only grow to what, 2" max? Personally i would keep up to 1 ram a few tetras and a otto in a 10g. However.... I dont think it would be a good idea for a beginner. Having experience maintaining water quality is probably the difference between successfully keeping or successfully killing a ram in a 10g. 


Just my opinion.


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## redfalconf35 (Feb 24, 2008)

A Hill said:


> MarieB, Welcome to the forum! I think 10g is too small as well, although I have kept them in a 10g before...
> 
> I would recommend looking into Badis badis or Dario dario. They're smaller, amazing looking as well, and very interesting personalities.
> 
> ...


RE: 10g limitation on dorms... I snuck my 29g into my dorm a couple years ago :hihi: Just don't go too big, and cover it in a towel when you're moving it in. (Don't actually do this, and if you do, don't blame me when you get in trouble):flick:


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## redfalconf35 (Feb 24, 2008)

MlDukes said:


> Ive kept a mated pair of rams "in a 46g" for a while now, beautiful fish! I dont see why there would be an issue with keeping 1 ram in a 10 tank?? Ive seen many people including myself keep even larger fish in a 10g, not saying its always the best idea but.... Rams only grow to what, 2" max? Personally i would keep up to 1 ram a few tetras and a otto in a 10g. However.... I dont think it would be a good idea for a beginner. Having experience maintaining water quality is probably the difference between successfully keeping or successfully killing a ram in a 10g. That being said it your confident in your aquarium keeping abilities, go for it. But if your unsure dont waste your $, try a cheaper fish that is less demanding.
> 
> Just my opinion.


It's not really an issue of it being able to live in 10g of water. The issue is that certain species need more space than other fish their size, or they get bored. Dwarf puffers get 1" or so long, but if you try to keep them in a 5g, they get impatient, start pacing, and like a bored child, start misbehaving. Same with GBR's. If they're cramped, they'll harass other fish, pace, and rearrange your plants.


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## MlDukes (Nov 24, 2009)

redfalconf35 said:


> It's not really an issue of it being able to live in 10g of water. The issue is that certain species need more space than other fish their size, or they get bored. Dwarf puffers get 1" or so long, but if you try to keep them in a 5g, they get impatient, start pacing, and like a bored child, start misbehaving. Same with GBR's. If they're cramped, they'll harass other fish, pace, and rearrange your plants.


 
Thanks for the input. Maybe this is the source of the conflicting info on rams. Im never afraid to admit when im wrong, but perhaps i am the uninformed one here. I've kept a variety of fish in 10g tanks over the years and they all lived happily. So my statement was based off logic and logically a ram should be fine in a 10g but... most likely your right, when you factor in those "certain species" logic should be tossed out the window altogether.


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## redfalconf35 (Feb 24, 2008)

MlDukes said:


> Thanks for the input. Maybe this is the source of the conflicting info on rams. Im never afraid to admit when im wrong, but perhaps i am the uninformed one here. I've kept a variety of fish in 10g tanks over the years and they all lived happily. So my statement was based off logic and logically a ram should be fine in a 10g but... most likely your right, when you factor in those "certain species" logic should be tossed out the window altogether.


I'm confused by your sarcasm. I'll not take it personally...I would think that the idea that different fish have different personalities doesn't defy logic (an example for posterity: an infant and a cat are about the same size, but you can't put an infant into a travel carrier and ship them in the belly of a plane). Some fish (Cichlids, Puffers, etc.) are more intelligent than others (cories, tetras, etc.), and thus become bored when they're not stimulated correctly. There is nothing physically keeping you from sticking a GBR in a 2.5g tank. The fish would live assuming you keep up with the maintenance, but the fish will become agitated and become a handful. I have seen a GBR get aggressive in a 10g tank. I had it in quarantine with some neon tetras, and he attacked them toward the end of his stay in quarantine. I moved them all to a 29g and he mellowed out. It's not a question of whether or not you CAN keep the fish in 10g, but a question of whether you SHOULD.


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## wendyjo (Feb 20, 2009)

I didn't detect any sarcasm??


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## redfalconf35 (Feb 24, 2008)

I was just kinda confused by that last sentence. I don't get the whole "logic should be tossed out the window" line. Again, i'm not trying to flamebait or anything, i'm just confused what logic has to do with anything.


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## MlDukes (Nov 24, 2009)

redfalconf35 said:


> I'm confused by your sarcasm. I'll not take it personally...I would think that the idea that different fish have different personalities doesn't defy logic (an example for posterity: an infant and a cat are about the same size, but you can't put an infant into a travel carrier and ship them in the belly of a plane). Some fish (Cichlids, Puffers, etc.) are more intelligent than others (cories, tetras, etc.), and thus become bored when they're not stimulated correctly. There is nothing physically keeping you from sticking a GBR in a 2.5g tank. The fish would live assuming you keep up with the maintenance, but the fish will become agitated and become a handful. I have seen a GBR get aggressive in a 10g tank. I had it in quarantine with some neon tetras, and he attacked them toward the end of his stay in quarantine. I moved them all to a 29g and he mellowed out. It's not a question of whether or not you CAN keep the fish in 10g, but a question of whether you SHOULD.


There was no intended sarcasm in my reply to your statement, sorry if it came out that way. I was simply stating that logically a 2" fish should be completely fine in a 10g.

Is their anything wrong with that statement?

I then stated that logic doesnt play the same role when you are dealing with an out of the ordinary 2" fish.


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## Noahma (Oct 18, 2009)

redfalconf35 said:


> RE: 10g limitation on dorms... I snuck my 29g into my dorm a couple years ago :hihi: Just don't go too big, and cover it in a towel when you're moving it in. (Don't actually do this, and if you do, don't blame me when you get in trouble):flick:


if they ask, tell them its a 10 gal large lol


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## MarieB (Dec 18, 2009)

Thanks for all the replies everyone! I don't think that I will be keeping a blue ram in my 10 gallon after all, it sounds like it's too much of a toss up as to if it will work out. 

I do want to clear something up though, I'm not NEW to fish keeping ... just this forum, I've successfully kept a school of zebra danios and neon tetras with african dwarf frogs alive in a 10 gallon tank with stable parameters for about a year, however the heater exploded for some reason and killed all of the fish. So I'm fairly confident that I can keep the water parameters stable as all of those fish were living quite happily in the tank.

Anyway, since I'm starting over, I was wanting something a little more interesting and with a little more personality than danios or tetras. Does anything like this exist for a 10 gallon? Or would I need to wait until I can get a larger tank before I switch over to something other than schooling fish or bettas?


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## redfalconf35 (Feb 24, 2008)

My apologies for assuming sarcasm. I find some people use logic and illogic as an insult in other situations, and didn't want to want to jump headlong into a flame war before i found out your intentions. 

"I was simply stating that logically a 2" fish should be completely fine in a 10g."

I think the correct response to your statement is "it depends". On a certain level, i agree, it would seem that 2" of fish is 2" of fish. But then again, in this hobby, some things can be counter intuitive. (Look at the whole watts per gallon thing in the Lighting forum :hihi 

Again, apologies for assuming the worst. I know how it is with forums and tone of voice.

@OP: I don't remember the recommended parameters for a dwarf puffer, but those guys have tons of personality.


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## MarieB (Dec 18, 2009)

A Hill said:


> MarieB, Welcome to the forum! I think 10g is too small as well, although I have kept them in a 10g before...
> 
> I would recommend looking into Badis badis or Dario dario. They're smaller, amazing looking as well, and very interesting personalities.
> 
> ...


 this is a good idea ... but I AM the RA (kind-of the person in charge) in my hall and so I'm SUPPOSED to follow the rules. I'll have to look into the badis badis or dario dario!

No, most other people aren't too interested in aquariums at my school I would say I've seen about 3 other tanks. But lots of people keep reeeallly small 1g tanks with goldfish or bettas in them (obviously there's not a lot of education going on about fishkeeping at my school


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

MarieB said:


> this is a good idea ... but I AM the RA (kind-of the person in charge) in my hall and so I'm SUPPOSED to follow the rules. I'll have to look into the badis badis or dario dario!
> 
> No, most other people aren't too interested in aquariums at my school I would say I've seen about 3 other tanks. But lots of people keep reeeallly small 1g tanks with goldfish or bettas in them (obviously there's not a lot of education going on about fishkeeping at my school


Oh, and I kept them in a 10g while I was just learning... they were moved to a 55g shortly after I got them, just wanted to make that a bit more clear...

Badis badis, and Dario Dario are awesome, I think my current preference is on dario dario though. 

Not too surprising, oh well it'll be interesting. As for fish in small aquariums... my family seems to have a history of this while in college, my dad kept and I believe bred bettas and other fish in pickle jars while at University of Michigan. My Uncle on the other hand had a betta fight club going on at BC I think (this was a while ago) and he said it'd take place every Saturday night and then they'd go from 24 fish to the final winner or something crazy. Word spread and eventually they were getting the priests off to church the next morning because they'd be there all night betting on the fish and out drinking them as well! He claims that hundreds of dollars were bet on each fight, and this was in '55 or so:hihi:

So they're probably actually kept pretty well in comparison!
-Andrew


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

As long as you're good with keeping a tank stable and water parameters good with water changes, I wouldn't see any problem with a single Ram in a 10gal tank. I wouldn't try a pair in less than a 20L, but a single should be OK. Same with an Apisto. I believe that there are some Apisto species that it would be OK to keep a pair in a 10gal, but IDK which those would be... there are also some betta species (the wild-types) that would work together in a 10gal tank, or a single of any of the betta species or a dwarf gourami would work. Also a single Paradise fish would work (with no other tankmates).

If you're looking for more of a community-style tank, a school of dwarf cories and some of the small tetras like Embers or Rubies would work, or with some dwarf rasporas.


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