# New to the hobby



## Michael Chan (Jul 15, 2018)

Hey guys, I'm setting up my first big planted tank, and I'm keen for some feedback on what I'm doing. So far I've gotten my substrate and rocks down, pics attached.

In the gap in the middle I want to make a sand 'lake', and possibly place some smaller pebbles around it. On top of the tallerrocks I'm thinking about trying to glue some moss.

My feeling right now is that the lake is a bit too centered.. thoughts? I remember reading something about a golden ratio..

Later this week I'm on to buying plants. Any advice on some good beginner plants that I won't kill too easily? I have C02 and 4 T5 bulbs. Will I need fertilizer beyond what is in the substrate?

The tank is around 75 gallons (150x45x45).

Thanks in advance! Comments positive and negative welcome.

Michael.


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## christeez (Jul 20, 2018)

I think you should offset the lake to the left as pictured 










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## Tyrant46290 (Jul 21, 2018)

Honestly.....id offset it but I don't think it will stay. I think it will get filler in over a couple months


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Looks great to me!


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## christeez (Jul 20, 2018)

Tyrant46290 said:


> Honestly.....id offset it but I don't think it will stay. I think it will get filler in over a couple months



Nevertheless, it’s awesome! 


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## Nigel95 (Mar 5, 2017)

Welcome to this beautiful hobby!

This site will give you all the info you need about maintaining and running tanks. 
https://www.advancedplantedtank.com/

Nice tank dimensions!

Don't rush the proces. Good hardscape can take weeks. No rush in planting and running! I know you are excited but after planting hard to make changes and you will have the tank for a while.

Great to put some cosmetic sand in front. Break some stones and place them everywhere for details. Details are important!

Also a big slope (less negative space) gives way more depth. This is not cheap thats why I use a big layer of small lava chunks and top off with 5-10cm soil where I want plants. Lava chunks are also permanent they won't break down like aqua soil. Rough guideline I like slopes with at least 60% of the height of the tank. The smaller the tank the even bigger slope!


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## Michael Chan (Jul 15, 2018)

Really appreciate the feedback. That link was very useful Nigel, I expect I will spend some time there.

I made a few adjustments, in particular I moved the location for the sand lake over so that it is 63% across (I decided to move right instead of left). I won't fill that in with sand until I'm absolutely sure of the layout though. Also adjusted a few of the big stones, and it feels a bit more balanced to me, although it is hard to see in the photos.

Increasing the substrate slope was tough (I ran out of dirt), but I hope to fill up more of that space with plants. 60 liters of aqua soil ain't cheap 

I've held back placing the smaller stones I have until after I plant, so I can see where they fit in.

Hoping to be able to share some more pics after this weekend. Hopefully my lily pipes have arrived by then too. Those black things are an eyesore!

front view


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## swarley (Apr 12, 2018)

The rocks seem to uniform. Mostly pointing up. The left side seem a bit better and natural than the right side. But I think all needs some work/tweaking. Keep at it. Don't settle on a scape until it's fully pleasing and satisfying.


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## Nigel95 (Mar 5, 2017)

Please consider small lava chunks for next rescape. You need to buy it once and it doesn't break down. Top it off every scape with 5-10cm soil. Much cheaper this way. 

I always scape through the lens of my camera. If it looks good in pictures it looks good IRL IMO. I find it easier to see if things don't fit on pictures.

Consider using a scape box. Moving stones in soil can also crush them. 





I still think you need bigger slope. I struggled with this in a running layout hard to fix it later tbh. Some plants can fill further but really better to do changes now. 

Sorry I know you put lots of time in it but it looks like some stones that are just put in next to each other. I mean you worked front to back not left to right a.k.a. family photo with stones but it needs more natural flow. I miss something. For example I spoke a brazilian guy last time and he had a really top layout (ranks high in international contest) and he just worked 4 months only on the rockwork. Good work takes time! Never give up if you get frustrated go do something else and go back w/e you like. 

Maybe smaller stones (but still big enough that they will be visible after carpet filling in) will give more connection harmony in the layout. Try out lots of things! 

On the right there is not really movement in the layout the 3 stones right in the back go lineair down.

Also most rocks are just standing up maybe try to tilt some to make more interesting.


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## Michael Chan (Jul 15, 2018)

Thanks Nigel, really appreciate the considered feedback. I'm in no rush here (other than the wife asking me why I'm still playing with rocks), and I hear where you are coming from. I think I need to substantially rework the ideas in my head.


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## swarley (Apr 12, 2018)

And here I am, only spent about 20 hours on my hardscape layout for my first scape.. But my next scape is an iwagumi and that'll probably take a really long time to figure out.


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## christeez (Jul 20, 2018)

This is inspirational 


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## Michael Chan (Jul 15, 2018)

Changed things up a bit and this is another prototype. Very different to what I had before, and so far I'm liking the minimalism (but I might feel different in the morning).


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## christeez (Jul 20, 2018)

Michael Chan said:


> Changed things up a bit and this is another prototype. Very different to what I had before, and so far I'm liking the minimalism (but I might feel different in the morning).




Very nice I like it 


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## swarley (Apr 12, 2018)

Keept at it Michael. It's great to see the hardwork on the hardscape. I wanna say you should use more rocks, but just keep playing around =D


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## Michael Chan (Jul 15, 2018)

Thanks Swarley. I polished up the slopes a bit, and added a bit of detail. In particular the shore of the sand lake in the foreground right is framed now. I suspect if I don't do this then the sand and soil will mix.


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## Michael Chan (Jul 15, 2018)

Day 0

HC and dwarf hairgrass is in. Rocks have been painted with chopped fissiden combo yogurt stew, and tank has been misted.

Fingers crossed !!! 

All up I put around 3 gallons of water into the tank. Hopefully not too dry.


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## Frank158 (Oct 1, 2013)

Subscribing to this thread and looking forward to see your progress


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## SueD (Nov 20, 2010)

I was going to say I liked the first plan over the 2nd, but this 3rd one is the best of both. Really nice.


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## Raith (Jun 27, 2014)

Michael Chan said:


> Day 0
> 
> HC and dwarf hairgrass is in. Rocks have been painted with chopped fissiden combo yogurt stew, and tank has been misted.
> 
> ...


How many cups of DHG/HC did you end up using?


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## Nigel95 (Mar 5, 2017)

Very different hardscape but hey this is looking way more appealing than the previous hardscape you made. Good job man. Trust me almost every new hardscape you make in tank or scape box will be better! 

I really like the start on the left focal point. Now add lots of small stones with texture around and create nice combos. Especially on the left main stone feed that bottom with stones to make layers. 

And don't forget that big slope . Small lava chunks are not that expensive and will stay for a very long time. Just invest in it once. And if you don't want a mess when you rescape you can consider to pack them in filter bags. This way it is easy to seperate from soil once you rescape.

EDIT: I only saw the first page I see you planted it now. If you are happy with it than it's good! 

Be sure that the soil is moist but no water pools!

I don't really like the cosmetic sand atm. I would replace it with soil or make something like a path towards the back. Or have cosmetic sand on the full tank in the front.


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## Curb Your Aquarium (Aug 1, 2018)

I love how people are total perfectionists here.


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## Michael Chan (Jul 15, 2018)

I used about half a square foot of HC, and a quarter square foot of DHG.

Bump:


Curb Your Aquarium said:


> I love how people are total perfectionists here.


I agree, I think this is a hobby that appeals to perfectionists, myself included


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## Michael Chan (Jul 15, 2018)

Nigel95 said:


> Very different hardscape but hey this is looking way more appealing than the previous hardscape you made. Good job man. Trust me almost every new hardscape you make in tank or scape box will be better!
> 
> I really like the start on the left focal point. Now add lots of small stones with texture around and create nice combos. Especially on the left main stone feed that bottom with stones to make layers.
> 
> ...


Thanks Nigel, hopefully I get to make many more. I'm liking my sand lake right now, but this one I can change fairly easily as my sand is essentially small pebbles. I'll re-evaluate after it has grown a bit.

Does your advice on the deep slope apply to this kind of layout where we essentially have an island in the mid ground, rather than a landscape background? I'm trying to visualize the perspective we would be trying to create.


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## Nigel95 (Mar 5, 2017)

You can also do a V shape, sides high slope and lower towards middle / golden ratio. I like big slopes in all layouts because it gives more depth and I like filled scapes with less negative space. Do what you want  Analyze scapes and see what you like.


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## Colin Wrexham (Mar 24, 2017)

Hi buddy. Totally agree with (Top 500 Nigel) lol. Sorry i couldn't resist it lol.

Not many straight lines in nature. I would consider angling those stones slightly just to create movement in your scape. It is a bit uniform. People get too precise and technical with hardscape and copy everyone elses. Then you get thousands all identical to each other. 

Took me a few hours of moving mine around before i got the shape i liked. As you can see, even tried slate. 

Good luck buddy


























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## Michael Chan (Jul 15, 2018)

Week 2

So, the dry start did not go well. Mold started appearing on the second day, despite leaving the top of the tank open, so after battling this for a week I decide to heavily plant and flood the tank. Bring it on algae! In addition to DHG and HC, I planted:

Alternanthera Reineckii Mini
Cyperus Helferi
Lindernia Rotundifolia ‘Variegated’
Ludwigia Super Red
Echinodorus latifolius
Limnophila Sessiliflora
Flame moss (Taxiphyllum sp.)(Packet)
Alternanthera Lilacina
Staurogyne Repens
Lobelia Cardinalis
Alternanthera Rosefolia
Myriophyllum Matogrossense
Blyxa Japonica
Ammannia Nesaea

Dosed with some potassium (suggested by guy at shop), added some liquid carbon, and half a small bottle of beneficial bacteria. I've ordered 4 liters of thrive but that won't arrive for a week.

Here are some pics taken a couple hours after planting. I'm pleased that everything stayed in the ground (I think the week was long enough for my grass to get some roots down). Also pleased that my tank is fairly clear. I'm not sure if the moss stew I painted on my rocks is still alive (Does it look dead or alive?). At least it appears to have stuck on. Will update again in a week.


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## babystarz (Sep 25, 2012)

Wow, it's absolutely gorgeous. I love that you expanded the white sand area, and the placement of the red plants.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Very nice scape.


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## Michael Chan (Jul 15, 2018)

Week 3

The tank is cycled, fish have joined the party, but progress on my plants is mixed.

My stem plants have all been going great (Limnophila Sessiliflora has grown 20cm!), but my Blyxa Japonica and Staurogyne Repens have suffered a lot of melt (about 50% of the leaf mass). Also my Pogostemon Helferi has been decimated (it looked pretty dead from day one though). I'm hoping that this is simply an adjustment thing, and that they can bounce back over the next couple of weeks. Also, about 30% of my HC has gone brown and floated away, but the rest is getting roots down and looks healthy. I read that one should start dosing ferts only after the plants have established themselves. Is this the case or should I start dosing now? I've been blasting Co2 into my tank, but have cut back to a lower level now that fish have joined. Also seen a few patches of thread algae pop up, but nothing explosive.

Here is a pic of my Dwarf Gourami  He loves chewing on plants, but so far it has just been the dead and melted leaves, which he is welcome to snack on. I named him Salad Fingers. He is joined by a school of ember tetras, some ottos, loaches, and a couple of honey gourami.


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## kaldurak (May 2, 2010)

I've always fertilized the same day I fill the tank. Since plants need/like ferts light and co2 to establish and grow, I'm not about to deny them, especially when they're just starting.


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