# Low Tech 10 Gal - Virgin



## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Welcome to TPT!

If you've got 2 spiral compact flourescent bulbs in an incandescent fixture then you've got a "medium" light level over this tank- so you'll need to dose some of Seachem's Excel to provide some extra carbon for the plants if you don't want to do CO2. You'll also need to provide some other ferts- nitrogen, potassium, phosphorus (macro elements) in addition to micros... Seachem makes a full line of ferts if you want to go with them, or there's other brands available, or dry ferts... lots of options.

On the other hand, if you don't want to fool with dosing ferts, you'll need to bring down your light level. If you put a regular single strip flourescent tube (the kind that comes standard as a flourescent rather than incandescent hood setup) then this would bring you back into a "low light" level. That's what I run over my own low tech 10gal tanks- 15 watts from a single T8 strip.

If you don't want to get a bag of Eco Complete or Flourite, you can use pea gravel or pool filter sand if you want. You'll just need to supplement nutrients for the plants some other way- either using root tabs for rooted plants or by dosing the water column.

I've found that the stock hoods for 10gal tanks tend to block alot of light from the front of the tank, so I run mine over glass canopies. Or you could go "topless" and suspend the fixture- that might actually work well if you stick with your current fixture, since the additional height would lower the light level coming off your 2x bulbs. You might do that to put yourself back into the "low light" category.

For filtration you can do whatever you'd like. If you want a shrimp colony, they love grazing on sponge filters. If you use the HOB filter you'll want to cover the intake of the filter with pantyhose or a small sponge to make sure little shrimplets don't get sucked in.


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## Liquid_Pyro (May 26, 2010)

Wow awesome fantastic response, thank you very much

I think I will try out some pool filter sand as I like the look, and if I upgraded to say a 15 gal tank then I would be fine with the current light bulbs? or if I found some lower wattage bulbs for the 10 gal (if they make them) I stay within the low light level?

If I dont have a cover then will I not be limited to what types of fish I can have in the future, as some like to jump?

With no hood will the tank not evaporate quite quickly? and always have to be changing and adding water? (I do weekly changes as it is, dont know if it will be more withou a hood)

Only plants that are rooted in the substrate need root tabs correct? If I were to only buy plants that attach to decor then could I just keep it to adding only one type of chemical? If so what would it be?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Liquid_Pyro said:


> I think I will try out some pool filter sand as I like the look, and if I upgraded to say a 15 gal tank then I would be fine with the current light bulbs? or if I found some lower wattage bulbs for the 10 gal (if they make them) I stay within the low light level?


I think they do make lower wattage screw-in flourescents, so if you could find something in the 8-10 watt range that would probably work well.

Upgrading to a 15gal tank probably won't change your light level that much- it's easy to get wrapped up in the "watts per gallon" math, but with short tanks how close plants are to light versus being shaded (by other plants) is really more important than wattage.



> If I dont have a cover then will I not be limited to what types of fish I can have in the future, as some like to jump?


Yes, if you go topless you'll want to avoid fish that are notorious jumpers like Killies, Bettas, hatchetfish, etc.



> With no hood will the tank not evaporate quite quickly? and always have to be changing and adding water? (I do weekly changes as it is, dont know if it will be more withou a hood)


Yes you'll probably have more water loss to evaporation but if you're making weekly water changes anyways it may not make much difference. Probably depends mostly on your climate.



> Only plants that are rooted in the substrate need root tabs correct? If I were to only buy plants that attach to decor then could I just keep it to adding only one type of chemical? If so what would it be?


Only rooted plants will benefit from root tabs.

What other ferts you need to dose, and how much, will depend quite a bit on what plants you choose, light level, and the total bioload in your tank.

Planted tanks are all about establishing balance between light and nutrients. The more light you put over the tank, the faster plants grow and therefore the more nutrients the plants need. Stem plants generally grow faster and therefore need more nutrients than rosette plants like swords and crypts, and also faster than rhizome plants like Anubias and Java ferns.


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## Liquid_Pyro (May 26, 2010)

Alright so I made the leap into planted with my 10 gal tank...I hung the lights over the tank like you mentioned and purchased:

anubias
java fern
flame moss
hygrophila polysperma (free)
java moss
duckweed (free)

I included some pictures...its kinda just a temp setup till I have some more time. I will be changing the substrate to a smaller natural looking pea gravel and will remove the blue divider holders and paint the back of the tank...can I remove the top black rim?

Questions:

- Since its only temporary can I leave the plants floating as I dont necessarily want the fern and anubias anchored to that driftwood? and how long could I do that for?

- If I don't add anything to the water how long with it take the plants to double in size?

- What should I add to the water?

- Does everything look alright? Is the flame moss okay on that plastic mesh? (I kinda wish I had bought a different moss, one that would eventually make a nice moss wall...if this tank goes well that will be next I guess)


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

What light setup did you end up going with?



Liquid_Pyro said:


> can I remove the top black rim?


Yes, you can do that with a small tank like a 10gal, though the tank would need to be empty first. I believe there's some DIY threads on removing the top in the DIY forum.



> - Since its only temporary can I leave the plants floating as I dont necessarily want the fern and anubias anchored to that driftwood? and how long could I do that for?


The plants will do fine floating as long as the water current isn't constantly turning them around and around- plants need to be stable and therefore able to orient their leaves towards light. 



> - If I don't add anything to the water how long with it take the plants to double in size?


No clue. Every tank is different, and plants will go through seemingly random "growth spurts" that may have as much to do with seasons and other things hard to measure...



> - What should I add to the water?


Depends on how much light you ended up with and your eventual bioload, but a bottle of Flourish Comprehensive would be good to add some micros and trace after water changes. I'd also keep some Excel on hand for algae issues.



> - Is the flame moss okay on that plastic mesh? (I kinda wish I had bought a different moss, one that would eventually make a nice moss wall...if this tank goes well that will be next I guess)


The flame moss is fine, and you can make a moss wall out of it if you want, too.


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## Liquid_Pyro (May 26, 2010)

I have 2 GE daylight 6500K bulbs, 15 watt, 900 lumens (the kind you might use around the house) currently over my tank.

I am not sure what I plan to put in the tank as far as stock goes, probably some extra guppies I have or maybe 2 or 3 plattys, those are what I have on hand at the moment...

I just have the sponge filter going right now so I dont think I will have to worry about that moving the plants around too much if I left them floating...will they grow better stuck to something though?

Thanks for the responses so far, greatly appreciated by the way


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## Aquarium1 (Jun 20, 2010)

Following along


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## Liquid_Pyro (May 26, 2010)

Well everything seems to be growing well so far, the java fern is the only one that I have yet to see any major new growth on yet...

Once plants have latched onto either rocks or drift wood is it easy to remove them and re attach them to another piece of material or does it damage the root system alot?


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## dj2005 (Apr 23, 2009)

Liquid_Pyro said:


> Once plants have latched onto either rocks or drift wood is it easy to remove them and re attach them to another piece of material or does it damage the root system alot?


Assuming you are posting about the plants that you are currently using, the plants themselves will be undamaged. The roots they use to latch on mainly serve the purpose of anchoring the plant and not so much to absorb nutrients. It is also easy to remove the plants, and you should actually be able to wiggle them loose without any root damage, in most situations (again, not that it matters much).


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## Liquid_Pyro (May 26, 2010)

Alright perfect, and yes I was asking about the plants that I currently own...as its not going to be the plants forever home, I want to eventually move them into a larger tank once I know that I can successfully grow plants.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

The plants will likely grow better if they are attached to something, yes, and it is certainly easy to remove them later. If you just let the plants float for a long time, the leaves will get distorted as they grow towards the light from a generally sideways floating position. 

Tank looks pretty good so far, but you'll probably want to get some root tabs for the crypts since you are using inert gravel.


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## Liquid_Pyro (May 26, 2010)

I have crypts? 

the only thing planted into the gravel is the hygrophila polysperma...is that a crypt?


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## Kamivy (Jan 3, 2010)

No. It's hygrophila polysperma. 
Perhaps Karackle thought the Java fern in the photo was a crypt?


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## Liquid_Pyro (May 26, 2010)

I dont know...thats why I was surprised when they mentioned that...I was pretty sure I had all the proper names for my plants listed at the top of this thread.


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## Liquid_Pyro (May 26, 2010)

Alright so its been 2 months now, and appears everything has stopped growing...

the hygrophila polysperma sent out like 6 to 8 leaves per plant over the first month, but now nothing in the last month or so, its not dying, just no new growth

the java fern has lots of roots shooting out but no new leaves, and the java fern hasn't done much of anything.

the flame moss did very well compared to the java but it has also stopped growing...

any suggestions?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

What's your total bioload now, how often are you changing water, how much water are you changing each time, and are you using any ferts at this point?


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## Liquid_Pyro (May 26, 2010)

I change 1/3rd of the water once a week

Only 3 guppy's in the tank...

No ferts at the moment...is that my problem?


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## jwalls1082 (Jul 14, 2010)

I've got a lot of these same questions. Subscribed for some answers


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## Frau Frankenstein (Jul 22, 2010)

Hmmm. i think so, my low tech 55 gal went through that about the same time frame (3 months)-- i had an established bioload, added plants then at a certain point exhausted my bioload and the plants stopped growing. No root tabs anymore?????? every time you change the water are you trimming plants too? This is removing some nutirents as well that normally would decompose and feed the system. It sounds like very small gradual fertilizers would be a good thing, for example maybe give your guppies a Thanksgiving dinner to up your phos and nitrates a little??? Your system does seem in balance otherwise??? no roting or algae outbreaks?


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## Liquid_Pyro (May 26, 2010)

I have never had to trim the plants as they haven't really grown...

No algae outbreaks...thats one thing I noticed about adding the plants was the algae stopped growing as soon as the plants were added it was really interesting...plus a little apple snail came in with the plants so it has been doing a little cleaning...

I will try and take some pictures and show you the 2 month before and after...its pretty disappointing...I was hoping for some more growth so I could do a nice rescape as the first attempt was pretty pathetic...but since nothing has grown I didn't want to touch anything...

The white gravel is showing quite a bit of dirt/crud build up already, so should i really be giving the guppys more food?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

You don't have enough bioload in the tank to amount to any decent nutrient supply for the plants.

I think you need to either fully stock your tank or start dosing ferts.


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## Frau Frankenstein (Jul 22, 2010)

"The white gravel is showing quite a bit of dirt/crud build up already"

ugg I hate white gravel, its like having white carpet and 2 toddlers carrying chocolate bars....So awesome when its clean. but HIGH MNTS. 
Id listen to Lauralee about stocking up on a few more critters, its gonna take a while for th plants to convert the waste versus fertilizing, but in your case a lot easier and cheaper than getting all the types and dosing whatnot on such a petite ecosystem. Make sure you quarantine any new fish for 2 wks if able.
otherwise I like your plant choices, they're hardy and once established you can trim and move around and fill in later on.
AND NO ALGAE!!!!! you're doing something right eh?


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## Liquid_Pyro (May 26, 2010)

I had no idea under stocking would be a problem!!...very interesting, thanks for the compliment on plant choices...as I have mentioned its my first time and I just wanted to try them out...I already know I would like a interesting carpeting plant that would work in my tank, I have a thing for the japanese style tanks usually with 3 rocks off centered in different sizes...not sure on the technical name.

what should I have in the 10 gal? 6 or 7 guppy's total? I will eventually prob switch to CPD's or something...maybe some shrimps

I also recently acquired a 1 inch bristlenose pleco would it be alright until maybe 3 or 4 inches in length? 

my rescape I was planning will have a slightly smaller gravel that's more natural in color...

could I add ferts for now until the gravel builds up enough bioload? like seachem flourish?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I'd say "yes" to all of your questions. :icon_smil

But keep in mind that gravel is entirely inert- it has no CEC and therefore no ability to hold and provide nutrients for the plants like the fired clay substrates (Flourite, Turface, Eco Complete) would.


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## Liquid_Pyro (May 26, 2010)

understood about the gravel...thats why only one of my plants actually has to be planted in the gravel...


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

I think dosing with potassium nitrate would get things growing. Info on dosing at Rex Griggs' site. Spectricide stump remover from Lowe's is 100% potassium nitrate, which is $9. Also can get it here, shipping is $6. I think dosing 5ml of solution a week would work.


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## Liquid_Pyro (May 26, 2010)

alright thanks...what should my stocking roughly be then?


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## Liquid_Pyro (May 26, 2010)

About to rescape my 10 gal planted...I removed the awful white gravel and am about to replace it with a more natural color, the bottom of the tank is now bare but covered in dirt and debris (first pic), should i siphon it all out first or just put the new gravel right over top?

Also does anyone know what the plant in the second picture is?

Lastly why is some of my duckweed turning white? (3rd pic)


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## demosthenes (Aug 23, 2008)

the plant in the second picture is Riccia fluitans


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## Clare12345 (Dec 20, 2008)

If its Riccia I think you'd probably totally be able to keep it in your tank. Riccia is usually a floating plant, and grows pretty quickly. If you kept that you'd have a big amount someday. 
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong about the light parameters for Riccia


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## Liquid_Pyro (May 26, 2010)

Thanks Clare

Well if it is Riccia, I have had it all along, hasn't really done much of anything in my tank, its just been floating on top with the duckweed...

Alright so I finally redid the tank...posted a few pictures and its a little better than the first attempt, I just need things to start growing and fill in...so I added 4 drops of liquid ferts, I might keep doing that for a few weeks and see what happens...

Pics are a little fuzzy as the water hasn't settled yet...I will try and post every 2 weeks to show the growth (hopefully) 

I moved the java moss from the floor to the wall, hopefully it will do alright there...I have read some mixed reviews about java moss walls, so until I can find some willow moss or christmas moss I thought I would try this for fun.

Someone mentioned that I was understocked with 2 guppys now (found a dead one yesterday), will two 1 inch bristlenose be an okay addition until they get a little bigger?

Also What should my stocking be around for my 10 Gallon?


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## Liquid_Pyro (May 26, 2010)

Dipped in a test strip today

NH3 = 0
NO3 = 10-20
NO2 = 0
GH = 150
Chlorine = 0
kh = 120 - 180
ph = 7.2 - 7.8

Not very accurate with the test strips, but hopefully might provide some insight to my lack of growth...hopefully someone can help.

For the last 3 weeks I have been doing a 25% water change and adding 4 drops of Seachem Flourish with the new water...


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## Liquid_Pyro (May 26, 2010)

no one?


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## eNdoubleU (Aug 25, 2010)

Following, very interesting


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## Liquid_Pyro (May 26, 2010)

thanks


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

You have mostly slow-growing species of plants and a low tech setup.

Plants don't grow quickly under low light.

If you want things to move more quickly, add more light, add CO2, and dose more ferts.


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## Liquid_Pyro (May 26, 2010)

Fair enough lauraleellbp...what about my browning leaves on my java fern? would some sort of fert help that...or will my seachem drops help?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Depends on why they're browning.

If they're the older leaves that were there when you first got your plant then chances are there's nothing you can do- those are dying off to be replaced with new leaves more acclimated to your tank conditions.


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## Liquid_Pyro (May 26, 2010)

thats reassuring, hopefully thats right, my main concern is that I haven't really had any growth with my java fern, I know my anubias has produced 4 or 5 new leaves in the last 2 months but I have nothing new with the java fern except longer runner roots.


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## Liquid_Pyro (May 26, 2010)

Hey, here are some pics of my java fern...hopefully this will help identify the problem better

In the last 2 months I have had new root growth (3rd pic)and a few little plantlets grown from the dead leaves, but no new leaves from the main 2 plants...

Should I be concerned...perhaps adding something more to the water (I already add a few drops of seachem flourish per week)


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Go ahead and trim off the worst leaves, and hopefully that will trigger it to put out some new ones.

I think that's just the old growth dying back.


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## Liquid_Pyro (May 26, 2010)

Alright do I just tear the old leaves off the java fernf or should I be using scissors or a knife?

Same with the roots on my polysperma...there are lots of roots coming down from the leaf joints or nodes...should i cut them all off? Shown in picture below on the right hand side mostly


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Sharp scissors work best but I'll also use my fingernails sometimes. You just want a clean cut.

You can cut off those roots if you want, or you could go ahead and top and replant those stems.


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## Liquid_Pyro (May 26, 2010)

Alright thanks, it just seems the polysperma produces more new leaves along the sides of the plant rather growing upwards...along with lots of roots half way up the stem...

As you can tell from the pictures, they dont look all too pretty at the moment


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## Liquid_Pyro (May 26, 2010)

Alright, so its been another month and I swear that the polysperma which I thought was supposed to be a weed and grow fairly quickly, hasn't grown at all... The pictures below are from today, you can easily compare with the pictures from older posts....

I still do 25% weekly water changes and add 4 drops of liquid ferts at the same time, the 2 guppys have had 2 batches of fry, (30ish fry, will remove some when need be) so there are now more inhabitants. My little 1.5 inch bristlenose keeps the tank spotless as I have yet to remove any algae or see any for that matter.

Any suggestions on my lack of plant growth? I know I have "mostly" slow growing plants...but no growth is not slow growth...lol...pretty sure I didn't buy plastic ones....


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

I believe dosing Brigtwell Floinmulti 2ml daily for a week and then 5ml will help the hygrophila polysperma, for it needs potassium. It contains-Potassium sulfate, calcium chloride, magnesium sulfate, potassium iodide, iron EDTA, zinc sulfate.

What are the 2 blue lines on the tank?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

IMO growth looks pretty good for only a month to me.



lauraleellbp said:


> If you want things to move more quickly, add more light, add CO2, and dose more ferts.


That advice still stands. And you'll need to do all 3, not just one, to make sure everything stays in balance.


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## Liquid_Pyro (May 26, 2010)

the two blue lines were for the dividers I was using before

thanks again lauraleellbp, when you say does more ferts, there are so many out there and I am quite still new to this, anything in particular or just more of the one I am already adding?

Also would just moving the lights closer to the tank count as adding more light? (they are currently about a foot from the top surface of the tank) or should I add another bulb either the same type or would the plants benefit from a different type?


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Liquid_Pyro said:


> thanks again lauraleellbp, when you say does more ferts, there are so many out there and I am quite still new to this, anything in particular or just more of the one I am already adding?


What ferts are you using?


Liquid_Pyro said:


> Also would just moving the lights closer to the tank count as adding more light? (they are currently about a foot from the top surface of the tank) or should I add another bulb either the same type or would the plants benefit from a different type?


Yes, yes, take baby steps, though. Also having a reflector around the lights will increase the strength. Look in the plumbing section of hardware store and you can find a sheet of metal to make a reflector. I got one and bent it using a 2 x 4. The best lights are the T5NO. The more light the more carbon they need, Excell.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I'm not sure what you're dosing right now, but if you increase the light you'll need to add a carbon source (Excel and/or CO2) and dose a balanced regimen of macros (nitrogen, phophorus and potassium, or NPK), micros, and trace. See the water parameter forum for more info on how to put together a balanced fertilizer regimen.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

lauraleellbp said:


> If you increase the light you'll need to add a carbon source (Excel and/or CO2) and dose a balanced regimen of macros (nitrogen, phosphorus and potassium, or NPK), micros, and trace.


I wonder about the need of phosphorus. For I had excess phosphorus and very low nitrogen. After I put phosguard in a bag in my tank my nitrates are went up to 40.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Some people need to dose more than others... depends on what plants they're keeping (demand in their tank), water parameters (not uncommon for it to be in tap water), and what and how much they're feeding, since phosphorus is usually in fish food.


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## Liquid_Pyro (May 26, 2010)

Right now I am adding four drops of Seachem Flourish once a week with my water changes

What would be the next step? Moving the lights closer and adding Excel?


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Liquid_Pyro said:


> Right now I am adding four drops of Seachem Flourish once a week with my water changes.


I would dose Flourish and Excell, 1ml a day for a month. 


Liquid_Pyro said:


> What would be the next step? Moving the lights closer and adding Excel?


Then bring the lights closer. Then dose Flourish 2ml weekly and Excel 2ml daily. Excel is absorbed within 24hrs so it has to be dosed daily.


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## Liquid_Pyro (May 26, 2010)

thanks Hilde! 

dosing flourish once a day wont be harmful?

would adding a different type of bulb along with the 2 existing bulbs work better than just moving the current lights closer, if i start dosing excel and flourish?


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## Liquid_Pyro (May 26, 2010)

i know my questions prob are silly, but could someone help me out with the last few posts?


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Liquid_Pyro said:


> thanks Hilde!
> 
> dosing flourish once a day wont be harmful?
> 
> would adding a different type of bulb along with the 2 existing bulbs work better than just moving the current lights closer, if i start dosing excel and flourish?


Probably a good idea till things start off good. More light will get to into the tank when you move the lights closer to the tank.


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## Liquid_Pyro (May 26, 2010)

Thanks I will be picking up some excel this weekend, does it matter what time each day I add the excel and fert?


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