# DIY Oxygenator... for fun and emergencies! NEW DEVELOPMENT!



## TAF CAF (Jan 12, 2006)

So, what do you think?


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## CAF (Oct 22, 2006)

I think its a great idea... but then I would now wouldn't I?

BUMP


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

The surface of any tank of water is acting as an oxygenator. The O2 in the atmosphere will be absorbed by the water until the water is in equillibrium with the atmosphere. If the water surface is kept in motion so there is no stagnant area at the surface the equillibrium should be reached fairly quickly.

Or, one can run a mixture of about 70% nitrogen and 30% oxygen thru a diffuser in the tank - otherwise known as an airstone with an air pump. That gets you a vigorous stream of oxygen containing bubbles going thru the water.

So, what does this device do that is better? I'm confused, I guess.


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## TAF CAF (Jan 12, 2006)

Well, the benifits to a normal tank would only be needed if you were over-stocked and the fish were using up the O2 faster than it could come into the tank.

The real benifits to this are:
1. If your surface aggitation is stopped, by perhaps a loss of power, you could introduce concentraited oxygen to the water to save your fish. (This has previously been done by directly dosing peroxide to the tank, but this alows the H2O2 to break down before being introduced into the tank.)

2. Surface aggitation is great... that is unless you are trying to keep CO2 from escaping immediatly into the air. However, in reducing your surface aggitation, you also reduce the ability of your suface to transfer oxygen in.

In my case, my hoods fit with only a small gap, so I either pump in air and aggitate the heck out of the surface and lose all my CO2, or get rid of the air pump and reduce the surface aggitation and suffocate my fish.

I am really just trying to find a copromise that will let me have CO2 and O2 at the same time.


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

TAF CAF said:


> *The benifits to O2 being introduced into your tank are as follows:*
> _1. Direct influx of O2 without having to have surface aggitation which can cause CO2 loss.
> 2. Inflow of O2 for crowded tanks.
> 3. In-tank diffusion of O2 in emergency cases such as loss of electricity, without having to directly dose Hydrogen Peroxide.
> ...


_



TAF CAF said:



2. Surface aggitation is great... that is *unless you are trying to keep CO2 from escaping immediatly into the air*. However, in reducing your surface aggitation, you also reduce the ability of your suface to transfer oxygen in.

In my case, my hoods fit with only a small gap, so I either pump in air and aggitate the heck out of the surface and lose all my CO2, or get rid of the air pump and reduce the surface aggitation and suffocate my fish.

I am really just trying to find a copromise that will let me have CO2 and O2 at the same time.

Click to expand...


You said this was for emergency situations. In such a situation, I would want to outgas ALL my CO2 to save my fish. If the CO2 is killing the fish, why not outgas it all just to be safe? In essence, the CO2 is suffocating the fish/livestock, so why would you want to keep CO2 there while infusing O2 into the water? Doesn't really make much sense to me....run an airstone, outgas the CO2, let the O2 in the atmosphere (~79% nitrogen, ~21% oxygen) equilibrate with that in the water. If it were truly an emergency, you could use your device along with an airstone to outgas the CO2 was well as add oxygen to the water. However, since the atmosphere contains ~21% oxygen, the airstone would do a much quicker job of dissolving O2 in the water. 

On the other hand, if you're using this as a continual supply of oxygen to your tank as a supplement while you're injecting CO2, be prepared to buy gallons upon gallons of H2O2. The breakdown rate is incredibly quick. A liter of the stuff might not even last you a day of continual O2 production...that's why it's kept in dark bottles and under cool temperatures, to reduce the breakdown._


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## aquanut415 (Jan 21, 2006)

you say that


TAF CAF said:


> I am really just trying to find a copromise that will let me have CO2 and O2 at the same time.


if your plants are growing, then you should gave oxygen in the water. 

are your plants growing - and the fish are dying, or seem very stressed?
or are the fish living, and you see no plant growth?

by adding O2 in any form (air pump, or your H2O2 reactor there), you are gonna be reducing the CO2 content of the water, and conversely increasing the O2 concentration. but its not like its all O2 or all CO2. they can both coexist, and do in a healthy planted tank.


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## TAF CAF (Jan 12, 2006)

epicfish said:


> You said this was for emergency situations. In such a situation, I would want to outgas ALL my CO2 to save my fish. If the CO2 is killing the fish, why not outgas it all just to be safe? In essence, the CO2 is suffocating the fish/livestock, so why would you want to keep CO2 there while infusing O2 into the water? Doesn't really make much sense to me....run an airstone, outgas the CO2, let the O2 in the atmosphere (~79% nitrogen, ~21% oxygen) equilibrate with that in the water. If it were truly an emergency, you could use your device _along with_ an airstone to outgas the CO2 was well as add oxygen to the water. However, since the atmosphere contains ~21% oxygen, the airstone would do a much quicker job of dissolving O2 in the water.
> 
> On the other hand, if you're using this as a continual supply of oxygen to your tank as a supplement while you're injecting CO2, be prepared to buy gallons upon gallons of H2O2. The breakdown rate is incredibly quick. A liter of the stuff might not even last you a day of continual O2 production...that's why it's kept in dark bottles and under cool temperatures, to reduce the breakdown.


First, the uses for this in an emergency situation is for the instance where the *electricity goes out* and you are stuck with dying fish with no way to run an air pump. (As stated earlier, there are people who use direct dosing of Hydrogen Peroxide to save their fish. My device has the benefit of seperating and only pumping th O2 into the tank. As I have been told H2O2 is a biocide which can wreck havoc with your biological systems, and this is what I am trying to avoid.)

I am currently using this as a _*very small *_and constant supplemental O2 supply. I have an eight ounce bottle of "common" Hydrogen Peroxide (H2O2 3% solution), that I have been using for three days and still have a small stream of O2 bubbles.

I am not trying to use this device as the sole source of O2, however, I have already seen happier and healthier fish while I am able to retain the level of CO2 preferable for my plants.


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## TAF CAF (Jan 12, 2006)

aquanut415 said:


> you say that
> 
> 
> if your plants are growing, then you should gave oxygen in the water.
> ...



I understand that you can have both CO2 and O2. But if your CO2 is collecting under your hoods and keeping the O2 from the atmosphere from getting into your tank. You are eventually going to have to get O2 into your tank somehow. As stated earlier by pumping in air through an air stone I was losing too much CO2 in order to obtain the desired levels of O2.

I love that people are discussing the pros and cons of this, and I would like to keep this from being a reference only to my particular tanks. Despite what others may be thinking, I do understand the issues my tanks are having and am not really here to discuss my personal options, as I have already done so in other threads, but rather to provide another option that others may like to try.


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## Snazzy (Sep 24, 2006)

just an idea but you say your hood isnt very well ventelated right? if its a diy hood you sould be able to install a small computer fan witha power pack from a radioshack or electronics store. That should give you more "O2" that can equalize with the water but im guessing it might kill your co2 concentration as well but not as bad as "severe" surface agitation


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## TAF CAF (Jan 12, 2006)

Snazzy said:


> just an idea but you say your hood isnt very well ventelated right? if its a diy hood you sould be able to install a small computer fan witha power pack from a radioshack or electronics store. That should give you more "O2" that can equalize with the water but im guessing it might kill your co2 concentration as well but not as bad as "severe" surface agitation


I have been considering this, however my hoods are low set glass and they reduce my airflow not just the canopy area. In the summer months I may be able to remove those glass tops and have a fan in the canopy, but in the winter I can't.


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

You say you're using 3% H2O2, meaning 3 mililiters of pure H2O2 per 100 mL of solution.

Say you have 100mL in that DIY bottle of yours. That means 3mL of H2O2.

2 H2O2 -> 2 H2O + O2
3mL H2O2 * (1.4067 grams of H2O2 / mL) * (1 mol H2O2 / 34.0146 grams) * (1 mol O2 / 2 mol H2O2) * (32 grams of O2 / mol O2) = *1.99 grams O2.*

Say you had a 10# CO2 tank that lasts 2 years (24 months), which is 730 days. 10 pounds * 454 grams / pound = 4540 grams. Over 730 days, that's 6.29 grams of CO2 released per day. Of course, a 10# tank rarely ever lasts a whole 24 months without a refil. A better estimate would be around 16 months, giving close to 9.30 grams of CO2 a day.

Your 2 grams of oxygen isn't going to do much for your fish over the long run. In cases of emergency, you could heat up some H2O2, dump it into a huge bottle, and add in some pieces of liver (high in peroxidase, hastens the degradation reaction), and try that. 

If you use a solenoid with your regulator, if the electricity cuts out, the solenoid should close anyways. No more CO2. No worries.


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## TAF CAF (Jan 12, 2006)

We are definitly on the low tech DIY side, so no solenoid, but the bigger problem with a 'lights out' would be the loss of all surface movement.

I imagine with an emergency situation, you would have to use a small bottle and a full piece of lead weight (I am only using a very thin strip about 3/4 of an inch long and less than 1/8 in width). Of course, that would depend on the number of fish, and of course, how fine of a bubble diffusor you are using.

As a tiny flow of bubbles, we are going on 4 1/2 days now with still a tiny production of bubbles that are possitioned to be caught in the sponge pre-filter of my powerhead and seem to be disolving completely there.

Of course, I understand that I am pumping in much less than the fish would need in total, but as a little _*suplimental*_ source, it seems to be working well.

I have slowly reduced surface disturbance and outside air being pumped in, (therefore reducing both the escape of CO2 and the entrance of O2 at the surface) over these few days, and am finally getting a good amount of CO2, while my fish are still swimming and feeling good. (The result before the oxygenator of this was dead fish.)

Oh, I also looked up the 'Oxydator' that was discussed in another thread....
Pactor GMBH (Sochting) Oxydator W - Marine Depot - Marine and Reef Aquarium Super Store

Perhaps, it explains the benifits better than I have been able to. :wink:

:icon_smil


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

Dont let them get You down.....Many people don't understand simple English.

Experiment with it and see if it works! If it does--Some People will find a use for it.

You are not the only person that has 02 issues in their tank, so others can potentially benefit from your efforts....

Most of my setups are low to low-medium light w/ slow growers--so I don't see a lot of "Pearling". Additon of 02--might just be helpful.

Increase surface agitation? Lose more C02! That's how it works! Read the boards: But you'll lose more C02..... But you'll lose more C02..... But you'll lose more C02..... God Save the C02---well, you may have just found a way to save some MORE C02.

I, for one, am interested in Your results......roud:


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## TAF CAF (Jan 12, 2006)

Thanks!

It is still going just a little bubble at a time. I am thinking that if I use a smaller piece of lead to start with, it will slow down the innitial reaction and each 8 oz will last with tiny bubble flow more steadily for about a week.

I am going to set another up soon, on the same premis of using two CO2 bottles.... as one starts running out, the other will take up the slack and I will have a pretty constant rate. The trouble seems to be that the reaction is almost instant, and then deminishes as the H2O2 is broken down, so something that would make the initial reaction a bit slower would be good, so I am going to use a smaller piece of lead in the next bottle, and see how it goes.


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## TAF CAF (Jan 12, 2006)

Well, to update, Day 7 and still that tiny flow of O2!

I forgot to set up another (been so busy around here), so am going to get one going this morning.

Fish still doing good, even though I have (on my little DIY CO2 detector) been bumping right in the 'good' range for CO2 for several days. I still have just a little bit of outside air going in the tank from the powerhead air line (a little tube that sticks out of the tank with an air flow adjuster on it). But since I have finally gotten into the 'good' with CO2, I think I will leave it on.

The little O2 bubbles are still collecting and disolving on the sponge pre-filter of the power head. I wonder how long this 8 oz will keep producing that little flow of bubbles?????

_Day 7, and counting....._


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

Glad to hear it! The air diffuser that you are using seems like it may be a double edged sword: It looks like the kind sold for UGFs and my experience with those has been that they take quite a bit of pressure (relatively speaking) to get working...The up side is that your oxygenator apparently produces enough pressure to squeak out those micro-bubbles, and the other upside is that another type of diffuser may very well allow more 02 out for greater saturation. If that were the case, then a simple airline valve could be used for adjustment.

3% H202 is easy to come by and cheap!

roud:


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## TAF CAF (Jan 12, 2006)

I would probably be pretty concerned with a valve... it would possibly produce so much pressure that it would eventually burst the bottle.

The main reson I go for the 'fine' replacable UGF diffusors is the fact that the bubbles are so tiny. I use the same with my CO2 and get pretty good diffusion with the bubbles almost fully disolving before they hit the surface.


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## TAF CAF (Jan 12, 2006)

So today (day 8) no more bubbles. It appears that with the size of lead I was using, that 8 oz lasts pretty much exactly one week.

I started a new one, and used a piece of lead about 1/3 the size of the previous, and using 16 oz of peroxide. I am hoping to get a much slower reaction than started off last time, and then if I need to, I can add a little piece of lead to pick up the reaction when the H2O2 has broken down a lot.

I probably could have added a piece or two of lead to finish fully breaking down the old 8 oz, but didn't think about it until I had already dumped it out.


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

It may have completely broken down anyway. Have you considered an external version yet? H202 bottles seem to seal pretty tight--not sure why you could not just drill a hole in an H202 bottle cap, drop in your lead and run a tube to the inside of the tank......Would look better and be easier to deal with, I would think.....


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## TAF CAF (Jan 12, 2006)

Oh, I guess I forgot to say that I did go external with the little bottle as right after it got going well.

All I have in the tank is the tube with the diffusor placed next to the sponge filter. (the same as I have my CO2 bottles doing)


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

Sounds Good! roud: Maybe now--Pearling will be easier for some folks to achieve......:hihi:

Thinking about forfeiting a Bottle of H202 myself and giving it a whirl.......


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## TAF CAF (Jan 12, 2006)

Well... going on about 8 weeks with the regular soda bottle 3/4 full and a small peice of lead.... and still making small bubbles!

I have the diffusor bubbling right under the sponge pre-filter of my power-head, and it catches the bubbles and slowly disoves them there.

I am going to just keep that bottle going and see how long it lasts.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

CO2 easily dissolves into water. But, a fine stream of CO2 bubbles doesn't fully dissolve before arriving at the water surface. O2 does not easily dissolve into water. A fine stream of O2 bubbles is highly unlikely to dissolve before reaching the water surface.

I'm really sorry some of us keep trying to shoot down your idea, which is ingenious, but isn't it better to point out the problems than to just stay silent and let everyone assume there are no problems? One way to get around the slow rate of dissolving of O2 is to use a "bell", like people used to use with CO2, to collect a big bubble of O2, which would all dissolve eventually. Or, it could be introduced to the input of the filter or a powerhead, just as CO2 is, and that might increase the rate of dissolving.


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

I think this is a good idea! I remember reading Tom Barr post that in some of the BIG (HUGE) tanks he does they also pump pressurized O2 in the tanks as well as CO2, I'm guessing for the same reason stated here. 

Guys just because this is uncommon and different doesn't mean you shouldn't support it! 

Now I don't think I have an issue with O2 but if i ever do....roud: 

- Andrew


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

Hoppy said:


> CO2 easily dissolves into water. But, a fine stream of CO2 bubbles doesn't fully dissolve before arriving at the water surface. O2 does not easily dissolve into water. A fine stream of O2 bubbles is highly unlikely to dissolve before reaching the water surface.
> 
> I'm really sorry some of us keep trying to shoot down your idea, which is ingenious, but isn't it better to point out the problems than to just stay silent and let everyone assume there are no problems? One way to get around the slow rate of dissolving of O2 is to use a "bell", like people used to use with CO2, to collect a big bubble of O2, which would all dissolve eventually. Or, it could be introduced to the input of the filter or a powerhead, just as CO2 is, and that might increase the rate of dissolving.


Hi Hoppy,

Personally, I don't have any idea how difficult it is to dissolve 02 compared to any other gas, But I see this as a work in progress......Maybe (probably), down the road, there will need to be a diffuser of some type--and the bell that You mentioned is a Good start--Passive diffusion--might just work wonders.

Even _*IF*_ this turns out to be useless in the end---its still a Cool little experiment to me. Besides, I think it has potential in at least emergency situations. I'm assuming that water has some type of "natural" equilibrium with the various gases and water that is 02 low--would absorb 02 more readily--But I really don't know. Just an assumption on my part.

Personally, I'm not seeing a "Down-side" to this Experiment. Even if it doesn't turn out to be extremely useful--I will assume that the Planted Tank Community will gain somehow/somewhere.

I have a Brand new Hydor ario Aerator sitting in the box collecting dust. I'm headed out of town, but when I get back--I am going to try this with the H202 hooked up to the ario. Maybe the fine 02 coming out combined with the ario will do something beneficial. 

TAF CAF,

A bell-type diffuser is easy to make and easy to install. It really is a Good idea. You may want to consider implementing it into experiment.....?

I've still got the same bottle of H202 sitting here. The only thing holding me back was lead and forgetfulness. Got into my tackle box the other day for the fishing line for the DIY Drop Checker and realized that I _*DO*_ have some lead small enough to fit in the bottle! So, How much H202 is in your "Soda Bottle" and how much lead?

I'll jump in on this in a couple of weeks......roud:


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## TAF CAF (Jan 12, 2006)

Thanks for the support, and I appreciate all suggestions.

Firstly, there is a diffusor on the end of my O2 pipe, and it goes right under the sponge that is on my power head. The bubbles stick right onto the sponge and sit there until the water movement over them causes them to fully disolve.

Without water movement and a sponge to cause full disolvation (as in the case of a power outage), I imagine a bell would be very useful. Also, in an emergency case, I would recomend using a much larger piece of lead and get a strong flow of micro bubbles going.

For my current (non-ememgency) needs, I just use the sponge on the power head and only a tinsy piece of lead to cause just a tiny flow of bubbles.

The piece of lead I am using right now is the flat kind that you get on plants, and is about .5 cm by 1 cm (by about .1 cm thick). I am sure it depends a lot on the surface area exposed. As stated, this piece of lead in about 16 ounces of 3% peroxide has been going slow and steady for about 8 weeks and still going.

For an emergency, I would probably use a couple centimeters of lead, and check on it in about 30 min. and add more if needed, to get a good flow of bubbles going.


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

Sounds Good. I didn't realize that You had any type of diffusion going on.

For the record, one of the reasons this interests me is because it is theorized that some aquatic animals such as my A. javanicus, fly-river turtles, alligators snapping turtles, etc are from 02 rich water, and that low 02 levels may be at least partially responsible for the difficulties of keeping these animals in captivity.

Lately, I've been focused on C02 and Tannins/Humic Acids. I am injecting C02 for the Plants in the Plant Filter and using it to keep my pH at 6.0 via a Controller, and other then getting the needle valves broken in--its working Great! But I keep a Limewood airstone running in the main tank for the Feeder fish and to help keep 02 levels up as much as I can. I have seriously been considering a pressurized 02 system, but I really don't want to bear that expense or hassle. Being able to eliminate the airstone and maintain or increase 02 levels would be Great to me.

Right now, everything is going very well with my A. javanicus, but I am seriously interested in this low cost, easy to maintain method of --potentially--adding 02 to the system. If diffusion is the only major hurdle--then I would guess that this can be worked out in the long run. I would guess from the 1 pic above that the small quantity of pure 02 could be sent into an Internal (C02) 02 Power Reactor and forced to dissolve that way. I have one for C02 in the plant filter and another in the sump---and 3rd 1 for 02 would not be a problem for me.

I would guess that there is at least a small, but sincere group, of Herpers that would also be very seriously interested in this....roud:


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## TAF CAF (Jan 12, 2006)

I am sure that a Reactor for CO2 would work well for dissolving O2. 

Of course, it is important not to over-do it (and that is why I use such a small piece of lead). I read in a thread somewhere around here that it is acctually easier to over-dose fish on O2 than on CO2, so careful monitoring is definitly advisable. However, by slowly adding the O2 level by getting it closer to the sponge filter (thusly sticking and dissolving more bubbles), it was very easy for me to get the right amount which the fishies were happy with, and I have had no losses since then.


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

I agree, and I just think that an inexpensive, Non-hazardous, easy to maintain method of maintaining good 02 levels and eliminating surface movement has a positive side. Some surface movement would probably still be wanted for surface scum--but that's another ball game.

I'm headed out the door.....

Everybody have a Good Holiday and be Safe! :icon_mrgr


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

Well, I finally got mine up and running. About 28oz of 3% H202 and 2 really small clamp-type fishing weights-I probably should have only used 1, but there's 2 in there.

Its fizzing up a storm. A whole bunch of tiny bubbles rising to the top. I have it plumbed into the internal C02 Power Reactor in my Plant Filter--and I'm not currently getting any build up. I gave it about an hour and then unplugged the air pump that was driving an airstone. The top of the power reactor is under ~16" of water and this little device doesn't have any problems pumping the air down to it.

Not sure what the outcome will be, but its up and running......! roud:

Hoping to be able to eliminate the air pump/stone and reduce surface movement some.......:icon_smil


BTW, I used a 1L soda-type bottle, put some old white aquarium gravel on the bottom for weight, the 2 small weights, drilled a hole in the cap and pulled the tubing through "Rex-style", and then ran the tube into the top of the power reactor.


APC--Cross-Reference


.


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

Just a Quick update:

The original bottle is still running. I have Teed a 20oz bottle into it and I am still not getting any build up in the reactor. So, all of the 02 is being dissolved. 20oz bottle is set up the same as the original 1L bottle. About an hour ago, I added another 20oz bottle (same set up) to a second C02 reactor in the sump.

The tank water actually looks clearer, but I am currently writing that off to my imagination. The main tank sits in front of a closed blind, but has had an ongoing GDA problem because of the sunlight creeping through the downward slanted blades. The GDA is reducing noticeably. Surface movement is less than minimal and the feeder fish are not showing any type of stress.

So far--I'm impressed. I will run the set up with the 3 bottles and 2 reactors for a few days to see what the state of things are. If there is no build up and no other negative side effects--I'll add a second bottle to the second reactor. After that, I should have a couple 1gal juice jugs available, so I'll switch over to those. I believe that the output is completely controllable by the amount of catalyst put into the setup. So, a 1g jug with the same amount of catalyst should offer the same output for a longer period of time. More catalyst--more output.

Last night I was researching:

Electrolysis of Water--Hoffman electrolysis apparatus

I am going to try this just for GP, but I think that the current method will be simpler overall and will probably stick with it.

Here's a neat device that I found last night:

Magnum Livewell Bait Keeper

Mini Livewell Bait Keeper

Both are a bit steep in price, but can be found somewhat cheaper than the links listed above. They have good user reviews, but no scientific studies--That I am aware of anyway. They appear to be based on the Electrolysis of Water concept somehow. I would like to try one--but not at that price!

Well, the Hoffman Device works. I set it up in a glass-glass with a 9-volt battery and a penny on the end of each wire. One is emitting tiny bubbles (02) and the other it releasing a small whitish cloud (H). Separated in similar concept to the Hoffman device--it would be easy to isolate the pure 02 and vent the H. Could be made of PVC or Clear PVC for viewing. Add a 12v 90 mAmp transformer and it should work as well as the Magnum offered for ~$100, and have a constant power supply. Just need to determine an easily obtainable electrode. The copper is working and could be enlarged with simple copper pipe. We have Platinum at work, but I'd be a bit leary about helping myself and I don't think its readily available to the average person.


I'll look into this some more.....


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## TAF CAF (Jan 12, 2006)

Very cool! I am still using the single 16 oz that I started well over a month ago with just a tiny piece of lead in my 55 and I now don't have hardly any surface movement at all. Tank is cleaner and fish are very happy and plants are growing like weeds.

Of course, I would keep a close eye on the fish in case of overdose with several bottles running at once... I really have no idea what O2 overdose would look like, but with my small ammount, I have never seen the fish look 'funny'... in fact, they have never looked better.


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

> Tank is cleaner and fish are very happy and plants are growing like weeds.


Glad to Hear it. This has positive effects, but I'm trying not to jump to any conclusions at this point. When I switch over to the 1g jugs I am going to take these bottles and hook them up to other tanks to see what the similarities are...I realized that I have 2 1g jugs from DIY C02 that are not being used--so I may do that today.

Hoffman Apparatus: The device works and I may tinker with it more in the future, but for now I think its just not as practical--or inexpensive to set up--as this H202 based system. This is clean, neat, efficient and inexpensive.

You've done a Great Job! roud: 

Many Thanx!


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## TAF CAF (Jan 12, 2006)

:redface: :redface: :BLUSH: :redface: :redface: 

Thanks! It is really nice to know that someone may be able to get some use out of it, and I love the extra experimentation you are doing.

Keep us updated!


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## vidiots (Jun 17, 2006)

I could be wrong, however my understanding is that O2 saturation does not limit CO2 saturation even if there may be some slight interaction between the two levels. Your water can be O2 saturated and CO2 depleated, O2 saturated and CO2 saturated, O2 depleated and CO2 saturated, Both O2 saturated and CO2 saturated. 

It is my understanding that typical aquariums do not become anywhere near CO2 saturation because the resulting carbonic acid would be toxic to fish. O2 saturation on the other hand is possible in typical aquariums and is what results in plants pearling. O2 saturation does not mean complete CO2 depleation since it is quite possible to still measure CO2 levels even at O2 saturation.

All I question is reason #2 listed in the drawbacks in your origional post.


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

I agree, vidiots. That's why I have my 02 generators plumbed into my C02 reactors.....They dissolve both C02 and 02 together without a problem. :bounce:


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## TAF CAF (Jan 12, 2006)

Cool, I didn't think you could really restrict one with the other, but several people (some on here) seemed to think so, so that is why I listed it as a possible.

NEW DEVELOPMENT:

Well, I let my 16oz petter out to almost nothing to see how long it would really last...

At the same time, I had let the tank over-grow extremely. I had to trim lots of plants down at the base because I didn't want to stir up the potting soil that is under the gravel-sand-shultz mix. :icon_roll 

Less than a week later I was re-arranging some stuff in the tank, and WHEW!!! What a smell! The whole tank was smelling of sewage!:icon_sad: :eek5: :icon_sad: 

The roots cut off were dying and creating terrible anerobic pockets. I desided to restart the oxygenator and put in a slightly larger peice of lead (about double what I used before).

In just a couple days, the water was 5 times clearer (I didn't even notice that it was less than crystal clear until I saw the difference), and the smell was completely GONE! I even poked the substrate to see if the smell was just hiding under the gravel.... but no. No Smell At ALL.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

Just wondering if You are still using this and still noticing any benefits?

I noticed enough benefits to buy an 02 tank off of ebay. I haven't gotten it filled yet, because I'm to lazy, preoccupied and forgetful--plus its a medical tank, so I have to hunt up a medical supply place to fill it. Wish I would have bought an industrial tank instead. Either way, I'll let ya know what I think whenever I get it hooked up.

As for the Oxygenantor: I found that there are noticeable benefits--like clearer water. But I also found that the lead will corrode over and become less effective at splitting the H202. The flat pieces that you used are probably better long-term than the round fishing weights that I was using. 

Anybody got a "lead-cleaner".....? :hihi:


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## TAF CAF (Jan 12, 2006)

I did notice that the lead does become less effective, so I drop in another piece when it quites bubbling at a steady rate, and it goes for another couple weeks. Then I give it a new piece when I re-start it. I have a lot of plant weights laying around, so I don't worry about wasting them.

I still notice a lot of benifit from it (cleaner tank and happier fish), and have even used it as an emergency case when my filter had stopped for several hours in my cichlid tank while I was gone. The fish were gasping, and I used it while I got the filter going again.

Before I got the filter running, the fish were already feeling better just from the Oxygenator.


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## Naja002 (Oct 12, 2005)

Sounds Great! Posting earlier got me to calling around on getting this 02 tank filled--apparently in this state I need a prescription for medical grade 02--so, that's out. I guess I'll check the local airgas for their industrial grade and go from there.......roud:


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## CAF (Oct 22, 2006)

Well you could always find a sympathetic doctor who’s into fish… Though I would recommend checking out a welding supply company. They always seem to have the cool stuff needed for fish tank setups.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Any updates?

I've been messing around with CO2+O2 for some time now, mainly because of a chronic gulper that either has an annoying habit, or maybe damaged gills in the past. At 0-1bps CO2 on a solenoid, he gulps and the others don't, at 3bps he gulps until pearling, the others don't. With O2 on at night, he stops gulping completely. This is a very understocked tank (1 angel, 10 blk neons, 1 rubrns pleco, 65gl), with strong surface agitation from a cascade1000. Plants are abundant, and as I said, pearling is achieved. O2 introduction has been by regular means, pump and stone, heavy bubbling to carry the water column up at night, no effort to achieve dissolving of O2.

What I want to know is when or if we ever need to be concerned with gas bubble disease. Would there be certain limitations for pressurized O2 as there is with CO2, especially along side each other?


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## TAF CAF (Jan 12, 2006)

I assume the limitations would be similar... of course, I run pretty low levels, so I have never really had to worry about it.

One big update, is that twice now I have had to use the emergency style (after coming home to a filter that quit on me), and both times it really helped quickly.

Also, in my over-grown tank, I have been using it pretty constantly to get more O2 in the water (since the surface movement is pretty much 0). It also helps amazingly for breaking down crudge that would otherwise make lots of anerobic stench.


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## GodsinisteR (Sep 14, 2007)

great post so far


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## eon17 (Aug 30, 2007)

this is an awsome thread i think it should be a sticky!


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## puchisapo (Sep 10, 2007)

i have seen some of the debate in the previous posts about whether this idea would really be useful for planted aquaria. i don't know if anybody has suggested this yet, but this thing could be _extremely_ popular among reef aquarists. they, with good reason, are always paranoid about the disastrous implications of power loss, which are much more serious for tanks full of live coral.

you oughta patent this thing.

-D


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## puchisapo (Sep 10, 2007)

.........i had forgotten about lead as catalyst. reef aquarists would not tolerate any heavy metals at all near their systems, so you would need to find alternatives.


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## TAF CAF (Jan 12, 2006)

Unfortunatly I think all of the catalysts are heavy metals. but I did have someone suggest beef-heart or something. Maybe the Iron works too?

I had not thought of marine, since I have just set up my very first salty this month.

I guess I should post it on some of the Marine forums.

I think a patent would be like telling people they couldn't make a grilled cheese sandwich because someone had a patent of it. No one would listen, and I woudn't want to deprive the world of yummy cheese sandwiches. 

LOL.


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## puchisapo (Sep 10, 2007)

reefcentral.com is the one that i frequented when i had saltwater tanks, a pastime that ended quickly as they became much too expensive.

if you could get it to work iron would probably be acceptable.

i only mention patents because i have been researching the process some of late. a patent would of course not prevent anybody from making one of your inventions DIY. if you introduce this to the reef hobbyists, don't be surprised if you see your device for sale in a catalog at twenty bucks a pop in a few years.

-D


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## TAF CAF (Jan 12, 2006)

Wow. Maybe I should get a bunch of water bottles and make them for $10

lol


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## j_m_lizard (Oct 14, 2007)

It was liver, not heart - for the peroxidase.


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## TAF CAF (Jan 12, 2006)

Oh-yea. Liver.

Is it the iron or something else in the liver?


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## spstimie (Sep 4, 2009)

I have been reading this to use on a reef. I plan on having it external for obvious reasons. Though it will not be routed to the tank. Instead I intend to T it into my protein skimmer air intake. The lead did scare me, but after reading a bunch of chemistry websites about this project, my understanding is that the lead oxidizes. So it should only be oxygen being released(according to the chemists). The oxygen should increase skimmer performance, keep ph higher and control unwanted algae. 

For those of you who don't think this works... Ideally there is 30% o2 in the air OUTSIDE. When you have the doors and windows closed and run A/C or Heating year round, you will deplete the oxygen content in your home. So, your air pump and stone only can pull the o2 content in your house. It is also pulling all the pollutants in the air. Google "indoor air quality". 

TAF CAF are you still using this? I found higher concentrations at sally's beauty supply. There are tons of them in Denver area, and the girl that cuts my hair says I should be able to buy up to 40 volume no problem. Potato is the other catalyst. Lead is the slowest catalyst.


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## TAF CAF (Jan 12, 2006)

I use in on a 55 gallon at a trickle rate of bubbles just to keep the tank extra clean, and I have low pump flow to keep in the CO2 that I am adding DIY as well. Works well. I changed to a large juice container with just a small bit of lead, so that I get a small trickle of bubbles and just add a little lead about once every 2 months. I have had this on for about 6 months and still bubbling.

I will be using it much more on my saltwater tank in a similar manner as you plan when I move up to Bailey in a couple months. At 9600 ft, I think the added O2 will be a major benifit. I will also be keeping several pre-made bottles on hand, as the electicity can go out there for a week in really bad weather.

That is an interesting idea with the higher percent volume, though I would be careful to be sure that it is still pure with water and won't contain any addatives for bleaching hair.

Hope it works well for you.


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## TAF CAF (Jan 12, 2006)

Also, don't forget about the Colorado Aquarium Society Fall Auction on Sept. 26th

You can get good equipment and fish at great prices or sell unneeded stuff.

http://www.coloradoaquarium.org


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## spstimie (Sep 4, 2009)

I got the idea from the diy co2 on my nano plant tank and the co2 scrubber for skimmers that was recently released. Then I found this thread.


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## TAF CAF (Jan 12, 2006)

Just wanted to update the thread. I have been using it for my reef tank up here in Bailey (9000ft) for several weeks now at a really small rate airlined directly to a pump that chews up the bubble into super small micro-bubbles and blows them around the tank.

So far I have seen a marked improvement on the fish, and possibly a small improvement on the coral.


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