# How much should I start saving up?



## Geniusdudekiran (Dec 6, 2010)

Just looked, the tank would cost me $119 to have shipped to me. That'd definitely be the biggest purchase. If I went with the Do!Aqua version, it would cost me $92, shipping included.

Also: Substrate? I guess AS would be fitting. How many bags would it take to fill the 45P?


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## h4n (Jan 4, 2006)

I cant help you with pricing, but i hope you end up buying it and I cant wait to see it! hahahha


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## Geniusdudekiran (Dec 6, 2010)

Thanks buddy. I hope so too. But I think I'm still dreaming now. It's probably going to end up more like $400, maybe $500. Hopefully I can save about $300 by my Birthday (that's very achievable, I think... I've been saving and growing until Christmas where I splurged on some expensive jewlery for my mom that she's only worn twice so far lol. But I'm at $120 and counting after my SSS purchase from Nikki. So hopefully I can breed those and sell them by August, my birthday, along with my other shrimp, and you know how parents are... "Awww, our little entrepreneurial son, he's working hard, doing well in school, I just bought a freaking $100K car, maybe we should help him out and give him the extra $200 :hihi:". Fun stuff. I hope to be a powerseller by the end of this year (What? It just started yesterday!?).

To everyone: how many 9L bags of Amazonia would I need to create a decently sloped Iwagumi effect in a 45P?


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## Dollface (Sep 30, 2008)

You could get away with a 3L.

You're going to spend almost as much on lighting as the tank itself, and that much again on accessories unless you already have the filter/pipes/glassware/etc.


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## Geniusdudekiran (Dec 6, 2010)

Really? It's like 10 gallons?! 3 will fill it? Steeply enough for some good Iwagumi action?


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## Dollface (Sep 30, 2008)

A 9L is enough to fill a 60p. 3L with a powersand base is more than enough of a slope for a 45.


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## Geniusdudekiran (Dec 6, 2010)

Could I do a base of Tahitian Moon Sand with a 3L?


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## Geniusdudekiran (Dec 6, 2010)

Okay, so an ADA 45-P with a 3L bag of AS Amazonia will be $133 shipped. Now lighting? What is a good light to use on a 45-p? Feel free to post pics


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

I spent between $600 and $800 initially on my mini m. I did buy ADA CO2 and lily pipes and a drop checker though which added to the cost along with the matching light.

$300 can get you a start but you'll probably be paying more once it is fully set up. Realistic price is probably around $500. Obviously it depends on your light, filter, pipes, and co2 setup.

-Andrew


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## Geniusdudekiran (Dec 6, 2010)

What is a good light to use on the 45-P?


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## freph (Apr 4, 2011)

Might want to look into the Archaea fixtures.


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## Obakemono (Dec 23, 2011)

Geniusdudekiran said:


> What is a good light to use on the 45-P?


3 13watt 6500K CFLs. Cheap. Find a fixture or make your own. I added 2 to my 15g column and it has made a big difference.


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## Geniusdudekiran (Dec 6, 2010)

Any specific fixtures? Not keen on making something here, everything has to look GOOD. Really good.


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## freph (Apr 4, 2011)

Not 100% sure, but the 36W one might work. It's 18.5" which is maybe a cm longer than the tank if that.

Light


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## Geniusdudekiran (Dec 6, 2010)

Looks really nice, but is $$$. Would like to keep lighting budget to $75, if possible. Are there any really similar lights to that one? Looks really nice.


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## freph (Apr 4, 2011)

Might check with Liam about the Up Aqua lights.


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## Geniusdudekiran (Dec 6, 2010)

How much do they run?


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## freph (Apr 4, 2011)

Actually, upon looking at their stock I don't believe they sell any other lights except LEDs...sorry about that. I think Archaea has a good price on the light, but you may be able to get away (if you don't mind the look of multiple lights) with a couple of Fluval/Finnex light fixtures....I know Finnex sells a 36W 18" model here.


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## Geniusdudekiran (Dec 6, 2010)

I'd like one, preferably... Not a fan of those 2 legged lights unfortunately 

Want everything to be picture perfect


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## freph (Apr 4, 2011)

Not sure what help I can be of then bud.  Sorry. Maybe a suspended light?


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## wiredconcepts (Dec 4, 2011)

Have you looked at Mr.Aqua tanks? They are very nice and reasonably priced might allow you to go a little bigger on the tank or save you some cash.


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## HolyAngel (Oct 18, 2010)

Idk if anyone has covered what I'm about to say here already, but my blyxa japonica is easily 6-7 inches tall...


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## matty26 (Feb 25, 2011)

for a canister filter do a sun-sun hw-302, really cheap, can't go wrong. for lights, I'd look at aquatraders.com another really cheap sight, those big brands overcharge the heck out of us


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## Geniusdudekiran (Dec 6, 2010)

Any specific canister filter that would be good for a tank about 10 gallons?


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

You could do a Current Nova Extreme 18" T5HO light with a colormax bulb for $70 but then you are going to need co2.


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## HolyAngel (Oct 18, 2010)

The sunsun 302 may be a bit much on a 10gal tank without a ball valve on the outtake to slow it down a bit. I recommend a SS filter on it, and really, you cannot beat the price of that filter.. An eheim with less flow will cost twice as much.. For lighting, you could probably get away with a t8 fixture. I'd avoid HO completely with a shallow tank unless you can hang it.


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

Also keep in mind your livestock value too. A 2211 or 2213 would suit a 10G tank. I have an Archaea 27W Fixture on my Mr. Aqua. Its 60$ and free shipping for me which suits your price range.


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## matty26 (Feb 25, 2011)

http://www.aquatraders.com/14-inch-1x24W-Power-Compact-Light-Fixture-p/51106.htm or a http://www.aquatraders.com/20-inch-1x36W-Power-Compact-Light-Fixture-p/51107.htm

I wouldn't hop on the eheim train, you can get a way cheaper filter that does the same thing.


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## Geniusdudekiran (Dec 6, 2010)

jkan0228 said:


> Also keep in mind your livestock value too. A 2211 or 2213 would suit a 10G tank. I have an Archaea 27W Fixture on my Mr. Aqua. Its 60$ and free shipping for me which suits your price range.


Where can I get it for that price? That is an ideal range for me, but would I be able to grow HC with it? Over a 45-P?


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

I'm with A Hill on the price front. You can do it for $300 but realistically, it's probably a good idea to save more. Even if you don't spend it all at once? You'll eventually have to sink it into the tank.

45P, I think, has a bit more depth and it's easier to go the Iwagumi route than with a Mini L.

You can definitely get a great Eheim for cheap. I picked one up on Fleabay (2213) for about $40 shipped. It'd been used for about a year but works perfectly. You can occasionally find them here in the SnS for $75ish shipped. That is, if you're willing to wait a bit until you have all the right stuff. If you go the SunSun route, consider snatching up one with a built-in UV filter or included in-line UV filter. You may never use the UV but it's a nice feature to have.

Archea fixtures are terrific for ADA tanks. They look as nice as they perform, in my experience. But if you truly want to go the budget route, consider standard clamp-style shop lights from your local hardware store and 6500K CFLs. $5-$7 per fixture (you can even remove the clamp and suspend them from above for a nice look) and $4-$5 per bulb. ZooMed also makes nice, deep, black dual-bulb fixtures that you can pick up for $30-$40. No where near as attractive as the Archea fixture, though. And less cost efficient than the clamp lamps.

When it comes to paintball CO2, I recommend finding someone on the SnS to sell a standard regulator to you for cheap. I've picked them up for $20-$40 on a number of occasions. Just another $15 for a paintball adapter so you can use the regulator. Also consider spending the $40-$50 for a solenoid kit. Makes life way less complicated and safer. Maybe also consider having a couple extra paintball tanks filled and ready to go so you always have a backup, as well. 

When I did my last 45P in the office, here's my price breakdown (not that you'd spend the same, just what we spent):

$87 for the tank
$40 for 2213
$30ish for a glass cover + stainless steel holders/clips/thingies to hold the glass in place
$20 on rock
$20 for plants
$60 on shrimp + snails + other stock
$100 for lighting
$50 for lily pipes
$132 for substrate and such (ADA)
$30 for an in-line CO2 diffuser
$130ish total for a full paintball setup with regulator, solenoid and two paintball canisters
$30 for electrical & timers

_On edit - forgot a couple things:_
$50 for in-line heater
$10 for clear filter hoses from hardware store (get them - especially if you're using lily pipes, it's worth the cost)

Was in no way cutting costs but I hope that makes it a bit easier for you to see realistic prices. Without trying, we sank a ton of money into it. Lots of wiggle room, though, and you can easily do it for cheaper.


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## h4n (Jan 4, 2006)

nice break down Jake!


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

Geniusdudekiran said:


> Where can I get it for that price? That is an ideal range for me, but would I be able to grow HC with it? Over a 45-P?


Here 
Not sure if you could grow HC. You'd probably want the 36W fixture if you wanted to grow HC


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## davidwes (Jul 27, 2011)

somewhatshocked said:


> I'm with A Hill on the price front. You can do it for $300 but realistically, it's probably a good idea to save more. Even if you don't spend it all at once? You'll eventually have to sink it into the tank.
> 
> 45P, I think, has a bit more depth and it's easier to go the Iwagumi route than with a Mini L.
> 
> ...


Wow, Thanks. That is very helpful! Where did you get the glass cover for that price?


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## Geniusdudekiran (Dec 6, 2010)

Jake, thanks for the rundown. I'm definitely gonna go for the 45-P if/when I follow through with this. As far as stocking costs I'm not looking at that right now as I should have plenty of shrimp, all I would need to get would be about 10-12 neons or similar schooling fish.

This tank is going to be good looking (externally and scape wise, at least. I don't care about what I don't see ) or I'm not going to do this at all. That's one thing I've learned in the hobby, that there is almost always a happy medium. Like between AGA and ADA you can get a Mr. Aqua tank. And between DIY CO2 and a full setup there is paintball CO2, etc. But some things you can't skimp on if you want a really nice, clean looking tank. And in my case I think that the tank itself and the lighting, and substrate too, are the, if you will, un-skimp-able parts. 

Also, could you post me some pics of your 45-P? To get some ideas? It'd be much appreciated.

On the note of substrate, what are you talking about with the 160 dollars? Aelyssa said that I would be able to get away with a 3L bag, which confused me too, but now I'm even more confused...


To Jeff: I saw that on AFAs site, but I thought for some reason you said $60 shipped? Maybe I misread.


And to everyone -- what is the general WPG measurement "required" to grow HC quickly, healthily, and shallow/flat?



somewhatshocked said:


> I'm with A Hill on the price front. You can do it for $300 but realistically, it's probably a good idea to save more. Even if you don't spend it all at once? You'll eventually have to sink it into the tank.
> 
> 45P, I think, has a bit more depth and it's easier to go the Iwagumi route than with a Mini L.
> 
> ...


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## matty26 (Feb 25, 2011)

Look on aquatraders for the lights, you won't have to spend$100 unless you want halides


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## IWANNAGOFAST (Jan 14, 2008)

Maybe he bought powersand and all the other additives like bacter100 and penac. 

I'd get a 9L bag of aquasoil just in case, it's not too much more and it's always good to have more than less and have to order another 3L bag. 

for light, you can easily build a nice LED light for 100 bucks. I'm running 9 LEDs over my girlfriend's mini-L. If i didn't get the controller, I could've done it for under 100 bucks.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Yep - bought all the goodies with Aquasoil + shipping. I think that price also included a bag of powder type to go along with it.

DEFINITELY get a 9L bag. 3L won't be enough for any sort of nice Iwagumi scape. 3 would maybe be enough for a super-flat bottom covering, though.

Had the glass cover cut at a local shop. Much cheaper than ordering from AFA.

That tank's in my Flagstaff office. Will try to snap some photos when I'm there in a couple weeks.


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## Geniusdudekiran (Dec 6, 2010)

@Jake: that's what I was thinking about the AS. How much should I plan on spending on rocks?

On a side note, what kind of office is it? Because the only places I have ever seen tanks are doctors offices, dentists, and restaurants and they all suck lol


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

Well for me it was 60$ with free shipping. Maybe cuz I'm closer to them? Sorry about the confusion.


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## Geniusdudekiran (Dec 6, 2010)

Haha it's cool. It's like $13 shipping... So like 6 Sakura shrimp, I can make that in a day, right?


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

For rock, it depends on your source and what look you're going for. I'm a fan of lace rock (the kind I used here) because of the way it ages in fresh water. Also provides tons of little cavities for shrimp to hide and it's usually easy to find in local fish shops. Usually $1-$2 per pound. $20 last bought me enough to fill a five gallon bucket all the way up. Typically buy more than I need and have it laying around for the inevitable next tank.

If you want the really fancy stuff that most people use in ADA Iwagumi tanks? Probably $30-$40.

While it's not always easy to find exactly what you're looking for, I think it's best to go to every local pet store (or landscape companies) in your area that you can feasibly get to. Look at all the rock available and make your decision that way. Since you're making an effort to make this setup exactly what you want, I say make the effort to go on a nice rock hunt. You'll end up with more than you need and will get tons of layout ideas. (NOTE: if you plan on digging through large bins of rock and stacking stuff in an aisle to see what looks best, alert a salesperson so they know you're about to nerd out. My local folks have grown to expect that from me but it's sometimes a shock to folks if I'm in a new area. "OH MY GOODNESS! What is this shavey-headed guy doing with all that rock in the floor?!")

Also - if you have access to a boat, sometimes it's interesting to go trolling for rock in area lakes and rivers.

Just one of my company's offices. Often a stressful environment for staff… so I started keeping tanks in my main office a few years ago. Now trying to do so in both locations because it's not just a lot of fun for me - and an excuse to waste even more time and money that, you know, doesn't need to be wasted - it's been a great morale booster. When work life is tough or hectic, it's always nice to have a creative outlet. And most people never really see or understand planted aquariums until they're exposed to those us TPT folks keep, I've found.



Geniusdudekiran said:


> @Jake: that's what I was thinking about the AS. How much should I plan on spending on rocks?
> 
> On a side note, what kind of office is it? Because the only places I have ever seen tanks are doctors offices, dentists, and restaurants and they all suck lol


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## CuriousAmerican (Nov 30, 2012)

The general consensus here is that you should rifle your kid's college fund and sell your wife's diamond wedding ring for the hobby, but only if she is not wearing it at the time. (Some would debate that requirement)

I would think a good rule of thumb is $50 per gallon. You could go cheaper, but in the end, it will be $50 per gallon, after you add in lights, a good tank, substrate, plants, fish food, test kits, filters, heaters, fish, shrimp, stand, cover, heater, food, electric outlet strips, replacement filters, dechlorinator, bacteria start. Cheap costs, and you could buy cheap, but it will only break ... so in the end $50 per gallon.

You can bring that down... if you are smart.


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## Geniusdudekiran (Dec 6, 2010)

I don't think that $50/gallon is fair. I've since set up my tank since this thread; probably tossed close to $800-$1000 into it. For an ADA tank, full blown setup, even just three gallons can easily run you $600. At least.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

I _wish_ $50 per gallon was a reality. I'm more than $2,700 into my 12gal.


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## DefStatic (Feb 19, 2013)

$132 for substrate? $100 for a light? Are we no longer talking a nano tank?


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## Geniusdudekiran (Dec 6, 2010)

DefStatic said:


> $132 for substrate? $100 for a light? Are we no longer talking a nano tank?


Just looked back, that was when I was planning a 45-P I think. 

This thread is over a year old, not sure how or why it was ressurected lol.


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## CuriousAmerican (Nov 30, 2012)

somewhatshocked said:


> I _wish_ $50 per gallon was a reality. I'm more than $2,700 into my 12gal.


Let's take an imaginary 10 gallon tank.

$ 30 - 10 gallon tank (probably cheaper)
$ 20 - cover - incandescent
$ 15 - two CFL (florescents to put in the incandescent socket)
$ 20 - Petco Sand or MGOPM
$ 40 - Aquaclear 30 or equivalent
$ 50 - Aqueon Pro Heater 100 W (top end - no glass)
$ 60 - Stand or furniture
==========
$235

Plants
4 species @ $8 each roughly. Your grow the rest
Bacopa, Water Sprite, Anubia, and Java Ferm

$ 32
$ 8 Moss Ball
$ 8 Java Moss
$ 8 Water dechlorinator
$ 8 bacteria
$ 20 Food 
$ 25 spare foam, carbon/purigen/bioballs 
The foam is cheap. The bioballs you do not have to replace. Only the carbon or purigen. So in reality $25 is for spare carbon + form + purigen. 
===========
$109

Sub total $344

$100 for the fish and you come in under $444

If you want to buy an EHEIM or high end lights, then you will pay more.

If you go for ADA aquasoil, or ADA tanks, then you will pay more.

$50 a gallon is very doable, if you are not going high tech.

You can even get low-iron glass tanks, relatively cheap.

Right now, Tropiquarian in Asbury Park is selling

a 10 gallon Deep Blue professional tank
with stand, Deep Blue filter, and T-5 flourscent cover + 100 W heater
for $100.

If you are willing to live with a glass heater, and a smaller filter, then you can go way under $50 a gallon.


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## Geniusdudekiran (Dec 6, 2010)

Okay, if you want to go _really_ low tech and throw aesthetics to the wind, then sure, it's easy. But the tanks that many of us would like to set up will easily run you three to four times this. It's a matter of preference.


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## CuriousAmerican (Nov 30, 2012)

Geniusdudekiran said:


> Okay, if you want to go _really_ low tech and throw aesthetics to the wind, then sure, it's easy. But the tanks that many of us would like to set up will easily run you three to four times this. It's a matter of preference.


I do not see the need to go ADA.

You can get low-iron tanks, aesthetically pleasing for much less.

http://aquatop.com

makes some reasonably nice low-iron glass.

ADA soil is good, but not so good that it is worth 4x the price.

I have never understood the necessity of an EHEIM on anythng under 20 gallons.

And lighting, while important on a planted tank, is not as centrally important as on a reef tank.

If you are putting that much money into a planted tank, then go reef.

Frankly, on a smaller tank ... some of the one in all sets are good.


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## Couesfanatic (Sep 28, 2009)

I see the need to go ADA. I've seen those aquatop tanks, they are not as nice and clean looking as ADA. 

An eheim 2211 is the best filter there is in its size.

What a lot of you are missing is that the price does not matter. We are concerned with aesthetics. We are willing to pay a few extra dollars to get the best. Why get a good looking/functional tank and equipment when we can have the best looking/functional tank and equipment available. 

You may be ok with the all in one kits, but I despise those ugly cheap things.

Like the genius just said, it's a matter of preference. I prefer to have the nicest nano available.

If I wanted a reef I would do a reef, but I don't want a reef.


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## Green_Flash (Apr 15, 2012)

CuriousAmerican said:


> I do not see the need to go ADA.


The only brand that comes close to ADA, is ELOS (look them up if you really want to seem some pricey stuff), so it isn't even possible to compare. Rimmed tanks are also a different matter, that is like a tube TV to a HD flat screen. 

I like to reward the innovators. 



CuriousAmerican said:


> ADA soil is good, but not so good that it is worth 4x the price.


What are you comparing to? You have substrate listed as $20, a 9L bag of Aquasoil is $30, you can use a 3L bag on a nano, only $14. 
Sure most pay higher for shipping but not much. 




CuriousAmerican said:


> If you are putting that much money into a planted tank, then go reef.


What does that have to do with anything? Why can't freshwater enthusiast's enjoy quality innovative equipment too? Why is that limited to reefers? Why do they get all the cool new toys it seems ? 

Maybe it is because alot of freshwater (American) hobbyist are stuck in the mentality to buy the cheapest thing that works.

You see, once someone has been in this hobby for sometime they no longer think of their tank as just a "fish tank" anymore, they don't mind spending the money for nice equipment, display size does not matter anymore in relation to amount spent. Well at least those who are serious about this do. :icon_cool




Couesfanatic said:


> What a lot of you are missing is that the price does not matter. We are concerned with aesthetics. We are willing to pay a few extra dollars to get the best. Why get a good looking/functional tank and equipment when we can have the best looking/functional tank and equipment available.
> 
> You may be ok with the all in one kits, but I despise those ugly cheap things.


Ditto. 

Like someone once said; "We are too poor to afford cheap things".


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## Geniusdudekiran (Dec 6, 2010)

CuriousAmerican said:


> I do not see the need to go ADA.
> 
> You can get low-iron tanks, aesthetically pleasing for much less.
> 
> ...


Sure, you can go with no-name rimless tanks, but the reality remains that ADA had unrivaled quality and honestly, it's sometimes about the name. Why go with American Eagle or Aeropostale when you can get Polo or J Crew?

And about the reef statement... what relevance does that hold? The type of your tank has nothing to do with the price tag, that only has to do with the quality. 

Some of us are, admittedly, elititists. We're obsessed with only getting the highest quality products we can. Although some of the kits are nice (one of my first tanks was an Ebi), they're simply not _the best._

That's all there is to it. Preference. There's no need to try to convert an ADA snob to become a low tech budgeted aquarist (not that there's anything wrong with that, as that's how I and many other people started), and vice-versa. 



Green_Flash said:


> The only brand that comes close to ADA, is ELOS (look them up if you really want to seem some pricey stuff), so it isn't even possible to compare. Rimmed tanks are also a different matter, that is like a tube TV to a HD flat screen.
> 
> I like to reward the innovators.
> 
> ...


Agreed. Like the quote.


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## DefStatic (Feb 19, 2013)

I guess it comes back to what you can afford and where you come from too. I have always been a middle of the road kind of guy. I don't buy the cheapest, but I also refuse in most cases to buy the most expensive. Some people throw money to the wind, some bargain hunt. 

From what I know though, I don't think anyone buying the most expensive stuff for their tank setups is wasting money. In fact, my only major complaint is the ADA tanks. But do they look amazing? Sure do. I just have never seen, and probably never will, a real side by side comparison of a lot of this stuff.

Seems like reputation is king too. Everyone knows what is cheap, what is middle, and what is top of the line.

And that goes for a lot of things. Someone might build up their vehicle for speed and spend $1000 on something that may only gain them 1HP, and people would probably scratch their head at them LOL.

I considered an ADA tank I saw for sale on here. Even used it was still the same price as a Schruber Wright (sp?) or Aquatop LOL. But I would have taken it, just never heard back from the person.


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## DefStatic (Feb 19, 2013)

Geniusdudekiran said:


> Sure, you can go with no-name rimless tanks, but the reality remains that ADA had unrivaled quality and honestly, it's sometimes about the name. Why go with American Eagle or Aeropostale when you can get Polo or J Crew?


People prob laugh at me, but I have spent a small fortune on Lacoste polos LOL. With that said, I only buy them when they are on sale. I do not think most of them are worth the $90 price tag (a few I would still have paid full price LOL) but 20% or more off, sure.


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## Calmia22 (Aug 20, 2011)

I have to disagree with a lot of people. I have a high tech 75g that I have spent just over $700.00 on. The tank and stand came used, but everything else was new. That includes two high end canister filters, and a pressurized co2 setup. If you shop around you can get exactly what you are looking for at a good price.

As for lighting: If you can hang a light then check out Aquaponics stores. I am going to be getting a new light soon for $140 for my 75g. It's a 4 bulb system with awesome reflectors, then I can sell my other light. They have 2-4 bulb systems that will fit well above a 10g and they are usually under $50 at my local shop. They are also T5 setups.


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## Smitty06 (Mar 25, 2012)

I don't think you understand the point everyone is pointing out. When you are passionate about the hobby, you want the best. For an ADA 45P, my lfs sells them for $89 so I have no problem dropping some money on a tank that nice. Simple truth is that ADA Aquasoil is the best out there right now, and it only costs twice as much as eco- complete. Sure with some of ADA's products their name raises the price some, but not like most things with big names. Comparing DBP and ADA is laughable. DBP has nice tanks but they are rimed, rimless tanks are just nice looking than a rimmed tank, so rimless has more aesthetic value. If you were to have a tank made with low iron glass locally, it would be around the same price, slightly less because the silicon job won't be as nice, and the low iron glass won't be as low iron as ADA, IME. If you want to rant on people that are worse, then go to the shrimp forum where they are paying 50 dollars a shrimp ( some even way more than that).


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## bluestems (Feb 7, 2012)

it's the ol' form vs function debate.

Everyone needs function, but some want more artistic form. And what one considers Art is personal. :smile:


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## Francis Xavier (Oct 8, 2008)

I'm just going to add this small tidbit in about ADA prices in regards to some items.

Some of the items, such as glassware and tools, are all handmade, and subject to extremely limited availability, even as a distributor. A lot of the specialty glassware only has a certain amount made per month, so if say we're talking about Cabochon Ruby, and if the craftsman can only make 50 Cabochon Rubies each month, then there's only going to be 50 for the whole world, including the three largest markets; Japan, China and India. 

So for us in the States, on most of these items it requires a three month reservation on my part to obtain most of the glassware and tools. And we're not talking huge quantities here - we're talking 3 or 4 Cabochon Ruby's. So even in the case of cost for an item like that, we could throw as much money as we wanted at it, but it still wouldn't change that we can only get a hold of 3 or 4 at a time for the entire US. 

In the end, you're talking about a very difficult item to make, to the quality it's made at, with expensive materials, expensive labor (Japanese labor for the most of the glassware, Super Jet, etc), and long time lines for a very limited world wide quantity. 

You'd be surprised how many times even the seemingly simpler to make glassware, such as Pollen Glass Beetle 50, is just not available even at the source. It's not totally uncommon for there to be a good 4-5 month wait list on the most exclusive specialty items. The core of it all is, the manufacturing / crafting time is the same as it was in 2004, and demand is 10x higher than it was in 2004, with a saturated Japanese market and a rapidly expanding Chinese, Indian, Vietnamese and European market. Speaking of Cabochon Ruby, it took me two years to get one (well, mostly because I put my customers first in line), and I freakin import the stuff. 70 bucks is cheap for that when you think about it from that perspective anyway.

So in a way, I can see how elitism comes into play a little bit here. We're talking about items where there might be only 20 of them in the whole USA for an entire year, or something that 0.00000006% of the population owns.


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## Geniusdudekiran (Dec 6, 2010)

bluestems said:


> it's the ol' form vs function debate.
> 
> Everyone needs function, but some want more artistic form. And what one considers Art is personal. :smile:





Francis Xavier said:


> I'm just going to add this small tidbit in about ADA prices in regards to some items.
> 
> Well put.
> 
> ...


Very cool insight from the internal workings of ADA.


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## Milkman (Dec 26, 2011)

I recently set up a planted 5 gallon tank. Only cost me £50 which is about $75 for you. However, I already owned a spare tank, heater and rocks. The costs only included the plants, substrate, new lights etc. If you factor everything else in, it costed me about £153 which is about $230


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## Kinection (Dec 1, 2012)

This might help, my estimated cost for this shrimp setup will cost 130-175$
Rimless 7.5G cube (Looks like mr aqua) 35$ (after tax)
Finnex FugeRay 12" (Amazon) 44$
2 Bags of UP shrimp sand 40$
Plants (Carpet plants/background) 25$
Dual Sponge filter 2$
Old Air pump from 75G (Costed 15$)
That is about $161, I still need to get 10 CRS for about 30$. 
Good luck!


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## DefStatic (Feb 19, 2013)

My only problem is tank prices. At the same time, I would be wary of trying anything cheap, wondering if they are cheaper because they are poorly made or cheaper because they found a way to just do it cheaper.

Then again, if Audi's and BMW's were as cheap as Hyundai's, everyone would probably own one LOL


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## Smitty06 (Mar 25, 2012)

In my opinion, the price is not that bad for an ADA tank if you factor in how low iron the glass is, the silicon work, and even a little for the brand name and satisfaction of saying, "I have an ADA tank."


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## Couesfanatic (Sep 28, 2009)

This thread is old guys. Those of you who are giving pricing advice should know this.


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