# How to get crystal clear water?



## vraev (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi guys,

I have been noticing that my tank is only crystal clear on the first day of a water change. Afterwards..the water starts becoming hazy. Not terribly hazy...but noticably hazy. The bacteria are established...parameters after 2 days post WC:
NH3: 0
NO2: 0
NO3: 20-40
GH: 80
pH: 6

There are 18 fish in the 25GAL. 
10 cardinals, 3 oto, 5 SAE (1-2") and 5 Amanos

I have seen 60 cm ADA tanks in the youtube ADA channel with over 20 fish in them. My tank pics are http://www.gtaaquaria.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34977

I am running a EHEIM 2213 which I now think is not sufficient. I might switch it to a 2215 or 17 in the future...but I haven't cleaned the filter since bacteria establishment. Tank is 6-7 weeks old almost.

ALso should I use some sort of activated charcoal in the filter? How do i do it without harming the bacteria etc? How can i get the water to look crystal clear like that u see in youtube videos from ADA.

thanks,

V


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## The Trigger (May 9, 2012)

Purigen in my canister filter keeps my water crystal clear. Works wonders. Will clear up organically in the water like tannins from wood,crud or green water in a couple hours. Having a lot of fast growing plants in your tank helps a lot too. I don't use charcoal and it looks like my fish are floating through air.


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## The Trigger (May 9, 2012)

Clears up organics in the water. My bad


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## jeremyTR (Mar 21, 2012)

I'm definitely going to have to get some of that purigen.

Sent from my HTC Evo 4G


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## Sierra255 (Sep 13, 2007)

Fine filter media will capture the floaties, but it may need to be cleaned often to keep your filter flowing well. If you have a problem with things like tannins leaching from wood or other things that discolor the water, Purigen or another similar product is probably your only option. It needs to be recharged pretty often, too. I wouldn't even bother with activated carbon. It's useful lifespan is very short and it doesn't even do that good of a job of removing the discoloration from the water. I would recommend it, however, if you need to remove a bad odor.


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## sapphoqueen (Feb 9, 2010)

IMO the girls in magazines looks more than the same girls on the streets  smoke and mist


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## radioman (Oct 29, 2007)

Purigen and/or a polishing pad.


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## jeremyTR (Mar 21, 2012)

sapphoqueen said:


> IMO the girls in magazines looks more than the same girls on the streets  smoke and mist


Huh?

Sent from my HTC Evo 4G


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## Zefrik (Oct 23, 2011)

jeremyTR said:


> Huh?
> 
> Sent from my HTC Evo 4G


Lol I have no idea. HAHA


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## Sierra255 (Sep 13, 2007)

jeremyTR said:


> Huh?


I think there was a little bit of a translation issue. I think I understand what this person was trying to say, though - girls in magazines always seem to look better than the ones you see on the street, or in every day life. I also think the next phrase was supposed to be 'smoke and mirrors', not 'smoke and mist'. Again, another translation issue.

I'm not sure how it goes along with what the OP was talking about, though. They weren't comparing their aquarium to those in magazines or on the web, just that it had water that wasn't as clear as they thought it should be. Oh well.


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## vraev (Apr 13, 2012)

thanks for replies guys. Now if you guys already have something like a eheim 2213.... how would i pack purigen in there. from what I see, purigen is sold in a bottle. So I need to get a fine mesh bag and put purigen (how much?) and then where do I pack it? The canister basket is pretty packed with the standard eheim mechanical, bio and then the blue and black foam pads on the top. Should the purigen bag be stuffed above the biological media? 

Also can someone please advice on how to properly clean a filter without disturbing bacteria? I realize it has to be done with old aquarium water. Does anyone use clean new detoxified water (by adding prime or the one I use: Tetra aquasafe plus)? Basically open the canister, get rid of dirty water inside, flunk the canister up and down and wash it in a bucket with aquarium water and wring out the foams at the top of the filter and reassemble. Does that sound correct?

thanks,

V


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## sapphoqueen (Feb 9, 2010)

Sierra255 said:


> I think there was a little bit of a translation issue. I think I understand what this person was trying to say, though - girls in magazines always seem to look better than the ones you see on the street, or in every day life. I also think the next phrase was supposed to be 'smoke and mirrors', not 'smoke and mist'. Again, another translation issue.
> 
> I'm not sure how it goes along with what the OP was talking about, though. They weren't comparing their aquarium to those in magazines or on the web, just that it had water that wasn't as clear as they thought it should be. Oh well.


thanks !

he he he 

LOL

as i sayd the same girl looks better on a magazine cover than in the real life and the "nacht und nebel" had gone a little as smoke and mirrors.
my bad ! 
))) 
always a tank on shows is more than a average planted tank owner will reach for .... so many tricks and so many equipment :icon_roll


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## JasonG75 (Mar 1, 2011)

The Trigger said:


> Purigen in my canister filter keeps my water crystal clear.


 
+1 GREAT suggestion.

I use it as well, in both of my canisters.


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## JasonG75 (Mar 1, 2011)

vraev said:


> how would i pack purigen in there. from what I see, purigen is sold in a bottle.
> thanks,
> 
> V


 
You're looking at the wrong stuff then. Its called Purigen The Bag.

Here you go 

http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/TheBag.html


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## vraev (Apr 13, 2012)

Oh! I know about the bag. 

I basically meant this: http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Purigen.html

I am aware I need to buy "The Bag" and a 100ml purigen pack. I was wondering where do I place it. I mean in the eheim 2213:










Where does the filter bag go? Above the plastic canister...under the head? or do I remove the sponges on top of the bio media? 

thanks,

V


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## discuspaul (Jul 27, 2010)

I suggest removing approx 1/2 of the large amount of the mid-filter media shown in the diagram (what are they - bio-balls ?) 
Place 2 or 3 layers of filter floss on top of that, and then over that, place a doubled-bag of Seachem Purigen granules (purchased in a 250 ml plastic bottle), no more than about 1/2" thickness.
Combine that (the Purigen & filter floss) with using a pre-filter on your filter intake tube, rinsed twice weekly. The Purigen should be re-charged about monthly, and the filter floss replaced with new every 2 weeks or so. That should produce crystal clarity for you.


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## Bushkill (Feb 15, 2012)

I would put the purigen at the very end of the waterflow, just before it returns to the tank.

It does work very well, but not cheap. I buy the biggest container they sell to cut down on the cost. You can use any media bag, just be sure to rinse well so there's none outside the bag when you put it in your canister. The little particles may damage the impeller.


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## The Trigger (May 9, 2012)

sapphoqueen said:


> IMO the girls in magazines looks more than the same girls on the streets  smoke and mist


I'm cracking up and i dont know why!!!


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## sapphoqueen (Feb 9, 2010)

trust me.... you will know


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## The Trigger (May 9, 2012)

vraev said:


> thanks for replies guys. Now if you guys already have something like a eheim 2213.... how would i pack purigen in there. from what I see, purigen is sold in a bottle. So I need to get a fine mesh bag and put purigen (how much?) and then where do I pack it? The canister basket is pretty packed with the standard eheim mechanical, bio and then the blue and black foam pads on the top. Should the purigen bag be stuffed above the biological media?


I stuff it in between my filter floss and the substrat pro. It's at the top of the media. Second to last step of filtration below the polishing floss


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## The Trigger (May 9, 2012)

And I use the 100ml prepacked bag they sell. I only recharge it once than just buy another one after the second time it turns black.


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## pejerrey (Dec 5, 2011)

This is my personal preference:

Over filtration is what I think. 

I don't like fine media cuz it clogs a lot, although having a sponge filter either in the intake of a canister or a powerhead will do a lot. I have found that undergravel filters run by a canister do wonderful in this aspect too.

Lean livestock and feeding also.

---------------
My 30 gallon :




























I haven't changed water in this tank since I set it up for shrimps like 2+months ago.
700gph filtration plus the DIY UGF and the 5x5x7 sponge filter.

-------------

6 gallon, shrimp tank also.
Planted cascade 200 HOB with a sponge filter in the intake and DIY UGF eheim 2213, 300 gph filtration( plus the extra stuff I mentioned).


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## Java Moss (Jan 17, 2011)

Try these three possibilities; first one first and on down if solution is not met. 

1. Clean the filter. Have a Eheim 2215 myself and that first couple of months, I had a really weird thin haze in the tank. Rinsed the foam disc numerous times in a bucket full of tank water, along with pouring out and swishing around the bio-media - boom. Clear within a couple hours after switching it back on and the haze never returned. Best part, it cost nothing. 

2. If No. 1 doesn't work, go with some fine filter floss. Drawback is, you may have to pop the top off the filter every few weeks to rinse that out to keep it from clogging and dragging your motor. 

3. If 1 and 2 don't work, break out the big gun - Purigen, as suggested a couple times already. It doesn't mess with your fertilizers, CO2 or balance like carbon most likely will. Only drawback is that it's not cheap. It won't break the bank, but it may give you pause before purchasing. And do the 100ml bag...unless you have a section in your basement looks like a reproduction of a laboratory at Los Alamos in 1956, then you can go with the 250ML jar and "The Bag".


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## The Trigger (May 9, 2012)

Java Moss said:


> And do the 100ml bag...unless you have a section in your basement looks like a reproduction of a laboratory at Los Alamos in 1956, then you can go with the 250ML jar and "The Bag".


Agreed lol


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## vraev (Apr 13, 2012)

haha! Yes! I found the 100ml purigen in its bag for 12$ and just bought it on the way back from work. I was relieved to see that it is offered in "The bag" for small tanks.  

Regarding #1....wouldn't that rinsing mess up the bacteria colonization in the filter? 

I am just about to clean the water, nitrate levels are already 30.

But to give u guys an idea of what I am talking about:

This was saturday morning after water change:










Now... 3 days later:



















Its funny..I talked to the guys at Big Als and they suggested that I should cut down on the lights. I guess they aren't aware of the planted tank hobby where we push our plants with CO2, lights and ferts. Right now i am still not using any ferts...and I am assuming thats the bottleneck in my setup.


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## radioman (Oct 29, 2007)

Could it be green water?


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## The Trigger (May 9, 2012)

Yeah it looks like you have some issues other than water clarity lol. They're right cut back on the light and re evaluate your co2 levels. They may be too low. Start adding ferts to help boost the plants to grow and out compete the algae for nutrients, cuz it looks likes the algae is winning in that category...


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## Kathyy (Feb 22, 2010)

I suspect lurking GW too. If you are positive your nitrate test is correct and nitrates are 30 then possibly dosing with a bit of phosphate is needed.

I had reoccurring bouts of GW until I increased the biological filtration in the sump. Filter bacteria's work compliments plant filtration and adding 6x15x13" of foam seems to have stabilized my tank. My tank is 180 gallons, you don't need that much foam!


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## m00se (Jan 8, 2011)

No one's mentioned your use of Tetra Aquasafe Plus yet, so let me.

Don't use it to neutralize the bleach when you regenerate your Purigen. It will clog the pores and make it useless.

See Seachem website for details. Use either Prime or another non-amine containing dechlor. I use plain old sodium thiosulfate.

It sure looks like your Eheim isn't eheiming well enough. Maybe you have it packed so tight with media that the flow is impeded. You seem worried about your bacteria balance. Rinsing your media in dechlorinated tap water at around the same temp as tank water is perfectly ok. If I were you I'd be looking at maximizing the flow through that filter, and not worrying so much about bacterial colonies. Planted tanks have lots of surfaces for bacteria to exist. Some people don't even bother to do traditional cycles with them because plants are so efficient at removing ammonia.

Good luck


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## vraev (Apr 13, 2012)

Thanks guys. I immediately stopped use of aquasafe and started using prime again with today's water change (30-40%). Hmm...well..the flow seems alright..I mean I would prefer more. As u can see, the CO2 diffuser is at the other end and the flow reaches all the way, but it doesn't force the bubbles down at all. But the plants at the back have a subtle movement in the current. But yes....I will upgrade in the future (perhaps next boxing day sales). I am all pro for overfiltration as well. Didn't realize that a 25Gal would need anything like a 2217. I might see if I can get a fluval G3 or something if I can get a good price.

Yup! I agree..I looked at the water with a white background and it was a bit green. 

I do have a Nutrafin Master test kit. Would providing phosphate and iron levels in my tank be helpful in diagnosing & treatment?

Also, in terms of ferts... clearly flourish, excel, iron from Seachem and the individual aquavitro products are locally avaiable. Is it easy to use them for fertilizing the tank? Or should I get something like Pfertz. I prefer ready to use solutions than dissolving my own KNO3 etc. 

thanks again guys. Really appreciate the guidance.


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## Aheartlessfish (Apr 19, 2012)

weekly water changes ^^! My waters crystal clear, nothing special.


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## pejerrey (Dec 5, 2011)

That cloudy water looks to me like water borne algae, meaning that you need to increase your co2 delivery by better flow first and if not enough increase amount until your fish look lethargic and then decrease a bit. Always increase co2 a tiny bit at the time allowing yourself to be around for more than 2hrs to observe and correct. Take co2 to the maximum to rule it out.

As for the filter go ahead and clean it, remove stuff that is clogging, like too fine stuff. That will give you better flow.

I would first try the free solution, clean the filter, unclogged. Bring up co2 and watch for two weeks.

If you see that plants are showing deficiencies then address nutrients.


As for fertilizers please don't waste your money on seachem solutions, you are paying to much for water. Buy dry ferts at green leaf. Is 30 bucks and you can dose dry directly into the tank. Those dry 30 bucks are gonna last you way longer than liquid 30 bucks. 

Your tank looks awesome by the way. And I'm just guessing out stuff so don't take it as that I'm an expert. I'm a newbie.


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

biological filtration is the key to crystal water.

if its not crystal ad ur doing reguklar water changes. ur bio filter has taken a hit during a water change, 
or there is not enough oxygen to sustain an efficient bio cycle based on the demands of a tank

if its green water.. ur beneficial bacteria are to blame. green water LOVES ammonia and readily propagates in its presence..

i run no purigan and 1 generic nowhere close to fine filter pad and all bio media that does not clog or absorb anthing. its just a plastic film water stays crystal
the proof is in the pudding so they say


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## The Trigger (May 9, 2012)

Yeah your tank does look great. Like everyone else said you need a steady regiment of dry ferts. This will correct any plant defficiencies you might have. you need to slowly crank that co2 up as high as the fish allow. And if it is in fact green water than purigen will remove it in a couple hours.


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## JasonG75 (Mar 1, 2011)

m00se said:


> Don't use it to neutralize the bleach when you regenerate your Purigen. It will clog the pores and make it useless.
> 
> See Seachem website for details. Use either Prime or another non-amine containing dechlor. I use plain old sodium thiosulfate.


 
oh yea I totally forgot about that.

"If they use an amine based polymer it will not foul the resin but will render it non-regenerable. What amine based polymers will do is bond not just to Purigen but to any organic scavenging resin as well as any ion exchange resin and when you attempt to regenerate the resin they will then bond with the chlorine to form chloramine which can be released into the aquarium. This is not just an issue with Purigen but with all resins being sold in the pet trade. The problem only occurs when one attempts to regenerate the resin, there is no problem unless you wish to regenerate the resin you are using. Seachem products do not contain amine based polymers and are safe to be used in conjunction with not only our resins but also with other companies resins."

also 


*Q*: On some of the Purigen® documentation I have read it says that some slime coat products can contaminate Purigen® and render it toxic. Can you identify these products ? 
*A*: Only certain slime coat products will cause Purigen® to become toxic; the products that do this are amine based. Prime® and Safe™ are not amine based and so will not cause this problem. If you're curious, what happens is that the amine compounds can strongly bind to the resin, then when they (the amines) come into contact with any chlorine they will form chloramines which are highly toxic. We offer a stress coat product, StressGuard™, which is not amine based and so can be used in conjunction with Purigen.™


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## The Trigger (May 9, 2012)

Yeah I've always heard to not use anything but prime on the purigen. Didnt know it could be that bad if you used something else though! Lol


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## Zefrik (Oct 23, 2011)

HD Blazingwolf said:


> biological filtration is the key to crystal water.
> 
> if its not crystal ad ur doing reguklar water changes. ur bio filter has taken a hit during a water change,
> or there is not enough oxygen to sustain an efficient bio cycle based on the demands of a tank
> ...


So your saying that an eheim, having more room for bacteria to grow, will help keep water more clear than say a HOB filter with much less room for bacteria?


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

Good filtration will get you clean water. Purigen will polish it to a new level of clarity. I had clean water but not crystal clear super water. After adding purigen, you can see the difference. If it's not clean to begin with though, it won't help solve the problem. Depends on filtration, tank size, number and size of fish, number of plants, etc.


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