# New 14g help



## fast94m (Jan 22, 2008)

Just bought a wal-mart 14g tank. Was going to go with a 10g but liked the look of the black silicone/trim on the 14g. It came w/ the incandescent hood but included 2 10w compact flourescent non spiral bulbs. Also included a nonadjustable 50w tetra heater.

I'm interested in staying low tech low budget with this tank.

What should i use as a substrate? Is potting soil w/ reg gravel on top the way to go?

What is a good breeding fish that i could house in this tank? 

Would you use the included penquin hang on back filter or buy a in tank filter?

I have a small powerhead laying around, is it worth using, its about 100gph?

I plan on dosing flourish excel and maybe iron but want to keep this tank as simple as possible, really interested in the waldron (sp?) method that uses low light simple setup.

Any suggestions on where to go w/ this tank? I really like the darker type soil/gravel look w/ bright green plants growing along the bottom and possibly some red colored taller plants on one side. The Amano tanks really interest me, any suggestions on plants?

I've beein in reefkeeping for a few years and now the planted tank bug has bitten me so i want to give it a low budget low tech try before i jump all the way in. Sorry for the long post, thanks in advance!


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## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

*Welcome To The Site*

It sounds like you started reading before jumping in like how most do.

You could use regular gravel as far as anything goes. You can do the potting soil with gravel on top. Personal preference IMO. It all depends on what is more affordable and available to you.

Danio's are good breeding fish. Get 3 male and 3 female and forget about breeding them and they will breed. Females are very fat looking and look like they are pregnant. Males are slim and smaller than females. Very easy to breed if you have many hiding spots. Livebeaers such as guppies, platy's, variatus, endler's, gambusia, Mollies breed easily as well.

The bio wheel that it comes with would not be best for a planted tank. It reduces the CO2 in the tank from what I rememeber. Try an Aqua Clear 20. With the price match from petsmart.com you can get it for about $20 at most petsmarts. 

The powerhead is up to you and the fish you choose. If you choose fish that like fast moving waters it will have two advantages. The fish get what they wantand you can run DIY CO2 through the powerhead. 

The Walstad() Method is a good one imo. Dose excel once a week for a carbon source and your tank should be good to go. Dont use excel with plants like vallisneria or Anacharis as it can cause "melting". 

Black Gravel would be a good choice to bring the fish color out as well as plant color. Here is a list of plants that I created that do well in lower lighting:Excellent list of low light plants. Those plants do well in low tech tanks(as for most like HC it is still debateable). I think plants like Anubias, java ferns, Mosses, cryptocoryes, hygro, water sprite, hornwort, and bolbitis would work well for you. Getting red plants is a little more difficult as you have to dose iron and 80% of the time they only get red at the top of the plant. Plants like anubias, java ferns, mosses, bolbitis need to be attached to rock or wood and cannot have their rhizome burried. 

Any other questions feel free to ask. Be sure to use the search feature first though and then if you cant find what you are looking for then create a new thread. And welcome to The Planted Tank!

~James~​


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## fast94m (Jan 22, 2008)

For black gravel which gravel is best? I was assuming that the painted black gravel that you see in my LFS was a bad idea, no?


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## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

I have used the black gravel from Petsmart and I havent seen anything wrong with it. If there is other black gravel that is not originally for plants then IDK.


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## fast94m (Jan 22, 2008)

Ok, black gravel it is. I would love to do live bearers like platy's or guppies but was told at my LFS that they require salt in the water and that most plants won't do well in salted water, is this true?


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## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Livebearers are frehshwater. Most can be acclimated to brackish(mollies to full saltwater). They are strictly fresh water. When they say salt they mean Aquariumn salt that reduces stress and not marine salt. They are two different things. Livebeaers are fine in freshwater.

And if you went brackish, Java Fern Does well.


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## dekstr (Oct 23, 2007)

I keep my livebearers (guppies / platies) in freshwater, no salt.

Also, biowheel is fine if you choose to go no CO2 at all. CO2 levels will be very low in the tank (atmospheric CO2 levels), but any that is used up by the plants will be replenished through the biowheel as it is a great water/air exchange medium. If you choose to go CO2 (which is probaby likely), then biowheel is not recommended as it gasses out the CO2 very quickly.


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## fast94m (Jan 22, 2008)

No co2 for a long time. I have had complicated reef setups before and now w/ a new job I had to simplify so i downgraded my reef from a 75g to a 30g cube. Now i want a planted but it has to be even simpler then my reef.

So the biowheel filter will be better then no filter and just a powerhead?
Its good to hear no salt livebearers will live just fine as i'd really like to try having them naturally breed in my tank. 

After reading more about Walstad's method she reccomends no added ferts, so would it be counterproductive to add Flourish excel into this tank?


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## tom91970 (Dec 31, 2007)

I bought a 14g from Wal-Mart a couple months ago; mine did not come with a bio-wheel, though. I removed the filter and installed a AquaClear 20 last week. I also been using a sponge filter (I know...probably more than enough filtration, but I keep the HOB turned down real low so the betta fry won't get sucked up). 

I also took out the heater and added a 50w Stealth. 

The lighting you have was the same, and while it is great for low-tech I decided to go high tech and bought a Current Satellite system. It's a world of difference...

Substrate is pool filter sand. I'd rather have something darker, though. I have the black gravel (in a 30g) that James mentioned but would think that you would need to add root tabs for the plants. I was able to grow some plants in that but really didn't have enough light so it did not work out too well.


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## fast94m (Jan 22, 2008)

Why did you replace the heater and the filter?

I wont run co2 so hopefully this light will be good for awhile.

What company makes the black gravel? Estes?

Your right, i just checked, the filter doesnt have a biowheel. Should i def change it?

Thanks to all those that contributed so far, learning alot.


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## dekstr (Oct 23, 2007)

For more on non-co2 methods, here is Tom Barr's spin on Diana Walstad's method: http://www.barrreport.com/articles/433-non-co2-methods.html


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## tom91970 (Dec 31, 2007)

fast94m said:


> Why did you replace the heater and the filter?
> 
> I wont run co2 so hopefully this light will be good for awhile.
> 
> ...


Personal preference, really. I like Hagen filters plus it's easier to swap out filter media if you need to seed a new tank if all my filters are similar. As for the Stealth I use them in most of my tanks because they sort of blend in plus you can set the temp to where you want it.

Most of the hardware that comes with kits are second rate to begin with. I normally use the filters and heaters on other tanks...QT or hospital tanks, for example.

I'm not sure what brand of black gravel I bought...that was nearly a year ago.


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## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

fast94m said:


> Why did you replace the heater and the filter?
> 
> I wont run co2 so hopefully this light will be good for awhile.
> 
> ...


In certain stores they would have just plain back gravel in their brand.


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## MOsborne05 (Jan 7, 2007)

I got some Tahitian Moon Sand from Petsmart a couple years ago, and it really works well for low-light plants. It is black, so it brings out the colors of the fish. The plants seem to anchor themselves well in the sand, and then they really take off. IMO they grow much faster in sand than in gravel.


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## fast94m (Jan 22, 2008)

Well i happened to just acquire about 20lbs of quartz filtration gravel, i think its the stuff used in pool filters. Will this on top of potting soil be adequate?

I want this tank to run silent, are the aqua clear filters silent? How often do you clean the pads? 

The temp on the heater is a nonadjustable 78 degrees, is this an adequate temp?


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## tom91970 (Dec 31, 2007)

78 is fine. I just like to be able to adjust should I need to raise the temp to fight ich. 

My AquaClear filters run so silent I have to look to see if they're actually on. roud:


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## fast94m (Jan 22, 2008)

Thats great to hear, It seems aquaclear 20 is the general consensus, what do you run media wise in yours? I'm goin to see if petsmart will price match petsmart.com and pick one up tomorrow. Any plants worth buying as starter plants that are low light for my 14g at petsmart? I'm referring mostly to those plants in a tube but also the ones in that little trough they have. Petco is also another place nearby that sells plants in the little pots. I tried reading the low light plant thread but i havent mastered the scientific names yet to match them up to the general name.


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## tom91970 (Dec 31, 2007)

fast94m said:


> Thats great to hear, It seems aquaclear 20 is the general consensus, what do you run media wise in yours? I'm goin to see if petsmart will price match petsmart.com and pick one up tomorrow. Any plants worth buying as starter plants that are low light for my 14g at petsmart? I'm referring mostly to those plants in a tube but also the ones in that little trough they have. Petco is also another place nearby that sells plants in the little pots. I tried reading the low light plant thread but i havent mastered the scientific names yet to match them up to the general name.


 
I use the same in my AquaClear 50 and 20: two foam filters and BioMax ceramic cylinders (the filter comes with the foam filter, BioMax, and carbon packs). You won't need the carbon pack, so you could use two foam filters to 1) take up the extra space, and 2) provide twice the filtration.

As for price matces every time I go to PetSmart I will print out the 'net price and take that to the store. I've bought three Stealth heaters for about 50% off and a $75 Python for about $45 doing that. My AquaClear filters have been purchased from Big Al's and Foster and Smith, so I don't know how much you could save on that item.

Some of the plants that I have purchased at PetSmart include rotala indica, java fern, hornwort, and wisteria. These are all good starter plants, just be sure to read up on them and any plant. Plenty of info here on this forum and other sites...As for the plants in the tubes? Don't remember ever seeing any plants in tubes at PS.

I know what you mean about mastering the names. Fortunately, I've been growing dozens of different types of herbs over the years so it's nothing new to me. It also taught me plenty about propagation.


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## fast94m (Jan 22, 2008)

Yea i just found some petsmart.com coupons and i will be able to hopefully get the aquaclear for $20 and a 50ft python for about $40. 

No carbon from the start huh? I am alittle worried of my potting soil by hyponix leaching something into the water so i'm considering filling it up, then draining it after about a day or 2 with the water running through the stock filer w/ carbon, good idea or no?

Also i have a ro filter for my reef tank, better to use that or just reg tap water w/ declorinator?


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## tom91970 (Dec 31, 2007)

I've never used potting soil so I can't help you there. As for carbon I never use it after reading that so many others don't see the need for it.

I have no experience with SW so I do't know anything about RO...I just stick with tap water and declor. 

I checked out the petsmart site and see that they are now selling the 75ft for $55 and the 50ft for $46. Now I'm thinking I might have bought the 50ft. Guess I need to go back and check. Whatever is was I know it was significantly cheaper than the store price.


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## Ladykatze (Jan 13, 2008)

Before you go to the store to buy the Plants in Tubes - print off the list at this thread (http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/g...on/56502-list-non-aquatic-plant-species.html). 

I went to the same chains looking for affordable, snail-free plants, and ended up returning half of what I purchased. 

Happy shopping.


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## fast94m (Jan 22, 2008)

Ladykatze, your link is broken, have another?


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## deleted_user_4 (Mar 8, 2006)

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/g...ion/56502-list-non-aquatic-plant-species.html


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## Ladykatze (Jan 13, 2008)

Sorry about the broken link. Glad someone else gave you a better one. I didn't print off the list before I went to the LPS, came home, and fortunately checked what I had before I opened anything. Then I had to back and return what I couldn't use.

The lists on this site are invaluable. I am learning to look for a list first, then go shopping. Now any mistakes are truly "on me", since I didn't take the advice available.

Have fun shopping for your plants! I know that I did.


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## fast94m (Jan 22, 2008)

5 cherry shrimp
6 neon tetras
2 prs of guppies

This sound right for stocking levels in a 14g? Would you add/subtract anything? I really just want to breed something cause i've never actually done that. I also want something at all levels of the tank, a bottom dweller, mid and then upper tank fish.

BTW, thanks for the links, i'll be sure to print them then begin the great plant hunt!


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## Ladykatze (Jan 13, 2008)

Are you planning any "hardscape" decor, you know like driftwood or something? My first mistake in my "practice" tank was to decide the hardscape I wanted to use, and then go plant shopping for a "few more plants". I promptly found a piece of Malaysian Driftwood I couldn't live without. My recomendation - go talk to the folks at the store where you plan to purchase your plants. I'm going to need to "re-scape" my 29 gallon because of the driftwood, I love it, but right now it's sitting on top of the substrate, and I need it to be lower. That is going to be messy, and I should probably move the fish out temporarily while I muck about in their floor. If you think you "might" want driftwood or a big rock or whatever - budget for it and buy it first, it'll save you work later!


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## fast94m (Jan 22, 2008)

Just did the hardscape. Picked out a few plants from petco tonight too. Will post pix once the dust settles. I found a old old aquaclear 200 laying around, its noisy and is even louder for some reason with the lid on top of the filter. So i left the stock filter in there and added this one, both are running a aqua clear 70 sponge trimmed down to fit and i added a small bag of carbon on top of the sponge in the aqua clear 200. 

I ended up using 10lbs of hyponix potting soil for the base and 1-1.5" of Quartz pool fitration gravel on top. Piece of long driftwood was placed in first and then the soil/gravel was filled in on top and around.

For plants so far i have Reg Ludwigia, Tropica Fern, Java Moss and a Large Argentine sword.

Thanks to all the people that contributed your help thus far. I still need tons more. 

If the NEW Aqua clear 20s are quieter then this thing i have setup now i might go ahead and replace both filters with a new AC 20 or AC 30. 

I used straight cold tap water since I wasnt sure if my stripped RO water would be beneficial or hurtful at this time.

Sorry for the long post, just excited.

Would replacing the stock 10w straight non spiraled compact fluorescents with something more powerful be a good idea at this point?


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## fast94m (Jan 22, 2008)

Also would it be better to step up to a bigger aqua clear like a 30 or 50 over a 20? would this eliminate the need for me to have that min jet powerhead in there?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

IMO yes, you can never have too much filtration. In a FW tank you only need circulation 3x-5x/hour max, though. I avoid jets if I can, but that's just personal preference.

With your guppy stocking- I'd go with trios of 1 male to 2 females- otherwise the males could harass the females to death (go fig LOL)

RO water is inadvisable- your plants and fish need the trace found in tap water.

IMO I'd wait on replacing your light just yet; just pick a few low-light plants for now. If this is your first FW tank keep it simple before jumping in with higher light, CO2, etc... get this one going and stable first, master the basics, and then you can start experimenting with more light, more difficult plants, etc.


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## tom91970 (Dec 31, 2007)

fast94m said:


> Also would it be better to step up to a bigger aqua clear like a 30 or 50 over a 20? would this eliminate the need for me to have that min jet powerhead in there?


Well, I think I wrote earlier that I have a 20 in my 14g and it filters great. The 30 would be fine but I think a 15 would be overkill. Same for the powerhead....you really don't need it.


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## deleted_user_4 (Mar 8, 2006)

I have an AC20 on my 7Gallon, but I only run it on the "lowest" setting. If I turn it to the full setting, my tank turns into a whirlpool and all the fish dive for the plants.


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## fast94m (Jan 22, 2008)

Then AC20 and no powerhead it is.

I'm coming from the reef tank mentality of no such thing as too much flow. My tanks usually have 40-50x turnover, tough habit to break but i'm learning 

The tank appears to be clearing up. I already made a rookie mistake by not tying down the moss. So I temp anchored it w/ gravel to the driftwood until i find a better way w/o ripping apart the tank.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

fast94m said:


> Then AC20 and no powerhead it is.
> 
> I'm coming from the reef tank mentality of no such thing as too much flow. My tanks usually have 40-50x turnover, tough habit to break but i'm learning
> 
> The tank appears to be clearing up. I already made a rookie mistake by not tying down the moss. So I temp anchored it w/ gravel to the driftwood until i find a better way w/o ripping apart the tank.


String, twist ties, rubber bands, you can use just about anything. String is the favorite b/c it will eventually biodegrade on it's own. The others you just remove after a few weeks.


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