# Excel KILLS plants?!



## ThatGuyWithTheFish (Apr 29, 2012)

Crap, so I bought Excel as a substitute for CO2 for my HC and ludwigia, only to find out that it will melt some plants? What plants are susceptible? Does spot dosing of it cut down the harmful effects? Does API CO2 Supplement also do this?


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## nokturnalkid (Apr 3, 2007)

Excel kills vals for sure. Most other plants are fine. I noticed mosses do not do too well when overdosed.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

API's CO2 Supplement is essentially the same as Excel, so it will harm the same plants that Excel harms. You can use Excel with vals if you don't do the initial big dose as recommended on the bottle instructions. Just dose 1 ml per 10 gallons of water every day, and it will work even better than if you follow the bottle directions. Vals may die back when you start on Excel, but it soon grows new leaves and does well afterwards.


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## herns (May 6, 2008)

nokturnalkid said:


> I noticed mosses do not do too well when overdosed.


I have experienced when Excel is overdosed moss gets thinner.


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## BBradbury (Nov 8, 2010)

*SeaChem's Flourish Excel*



ThatGuyWithTheFish said:


> Crap, so I bought Excel as a substitute for CO2 for my HC and ludwigia, only to find out that it will melt some plants? What plants are susceptible? Does spot dosing of it cut down the harmful effects? Does API CO2 Supplement also do this?


Hello That...

This Seachem fert contains a trace of "Gluteraldehyde", 1.5 percent. It's an industrial form of carbon that combined with an "activator" is used to sterilize medical tools.

"Glut" is used in high doses to kill primitive aquatic plants like algae. Apparently, the more complex aquarium plants can do very well with it. 
"Glut" can have, but not every case, a negative affect on mosses, certain varieties of Vallisneria and aquatic ferns, like Java fern.

This stuff was popular a couple of years ago, but there are some very good liquid ferts on the market as good as Excel and don't contain any Gluteraldehyde.

B


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## ThatGuyWithTheFish (Apr 29, 2012)

What about ambulia, wisteria, camboba, swords and anubias?


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## BBradbury (Nov 8, 2010)

*SeaChem's Flourish Excel*



ThatGuyWithTheFish said:


> What about ambulia, wisteria, camboba, swords and anubias?


Hello again...

If the plants aren't varieties of mosses, ferns or Vallisneria, you can give the fert a try. I'd suggest dosing half what's recommended and increase slowly if you don't get the results you're after.

I personally, think this product is too pricey and there are other good brands available without the carbon and the high price.

Just a thought.

B


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## JasonG75 (Mar 1, 2011)

nokturnalkid said:


> Excel kills vals for sure. Most other plants are fine. I noticed mosses do not do too well when overdosed.


 
no no no ... Yes is will kill Wort plants (Ricca / Pella) and *anchsis* (sp).

You can aclimate Vals, start off with half dosing then work your way up to full doses. I have a TANK FULL OF vals


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## ThatGuyWithTheFish (Apr 29, 2012)

BBradbury said:


> Hello again...
> 
> If the plants aren't varieties of mosses, ferns or Vallisneria, you can give the fert a try. I'd suggest dosing half what's recommended and increase slowly if you don't get the results you're after.
> 
> B


Hm, I did want some moss in my tank. I've heard it will melt anacharis. What about narrow leaf elodea? 


Sounds like if I take it slow and steady it should be fine?


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## JasonG75 (Mar 1, 2011)

I have Java moss in there, and once a month I have to remove the excess.


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## dhg is my plant (Dec 19, 2010)

what about fissidens probably no?


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

BBradbury said:


> Hello That...
> 
> This Seachem fert contains a trace of "Gluteraldehyde", 1.5 percent. It's an industrial form of carbon that combined with an "activator" is used to sterilize medical tools.
> 
> ...


What are the very good liquid ferts on the market that are as good as Excel for providing usable carbon for aquatic plants?


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## jreich (Feb 11, 2009)

Hoppy said:


> What are the very good liquid ferts on the market that are as good as Excel for providing usable carbon for aquatic plants?


Good point considering excell is not a fert, and ferts are not the same as a carbon substitute.

Sent from my HTC Inspire 4G using Tapatalk 2


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

I have used Excel with Anubias and Swords, no problem. 

Vals died. 

Anacharis is said to be sensitive, but I did not use Excel in that tank, so I do not know by firsthand knowledge that it dies. 

When in doubt skip the loading dose, as suggested above. 



> What are the very good liquid ferts on the market that are as good as Excel for providing usable carbon for aquatic plants?


Ditto: Inquiring minds want to know!


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi All,

I agree that Excel / Glut may cause issues with Vallisneria and some mosses. I believe it also may have caused issues with my Sagittaria. I disagree completely that it adversely effects Microsorium pteropus (Java Ferns). I dose Excel/Glut at 2X the Daily dosage on a daily basis and my 'Trident' and 'Windelov' have thrived. I don't grow HC but dosing at 2X levels has not caused any problems with my various Ludwigia species either.

30 gallon treat with Excel/Glut at 2X recommended daily dose


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## chicken (Aug 22, 2007)

ThatGuyWithTheFish said:


> Crap, so I bought Excel as a substitute for CO2 for my HC and ludwigia, only to find out that it will melt some plants? What plants are susceptible? Does spot dosing of it cut down the harmful effects? Does API CO2 Supplement also do this?


HC responds very well to Excel. 

As others have noted, Excel is reported to melt vals and anacharis. I've found that fissidens moss browns if I use too much Excel.


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## chicken (Aug 22, 2007)

BBradbury said:


> This stuff was popular a couple of years ago, but there are some very good liquid ferts on the market as good as Excel and don't contain any Gluteraldehyde.
> 
> B


What do you mean? Do you mean that that there are liquid carbon sources other than gluteraldehyde? Or that there are good liquid fertilizers that do not contain gluteraldehyde or other carbon substitute? 

Excel is a carbon source, a subsitute for carbon dioxide, not a "fert." Carbon is essential for plants, but we don't typically refer to carbon dioxide or carbon subsititutes as "ferts." Calling Excel a "fert" as you did in the sentence above is unnecessarily confusing and misleading.


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## BBradbury (Nov 8, 2010)

*Good Liquid Ferts*



Hoppy said:


> What are the very good liquid ferts on the market that are as good as Excel for providing usable carbon for aquatic plants?


Hello Hoppy...

This is cool. I seldom get the opportunity to talk with the more knowledgable tank keepers on this forum.

Anyway, I've used a couple I think are as good or better than the SeaChem ferts. The low to moderate light plants I grow in my planted tanks did very well with a liquid called "Yamato Green". I think the fert would have worked even better, long term, but it's more suited for tanks with better lighting. 

I'm currently using a hydroponcis liquid from Earth Juice called "Microblast".
It's less expensive than any of the SeaChem products and I'm able to dose it weekly in all my tanks (I currently have 7, low tech only) when I do my water changes.

My tanks have only been running for a little over 6 years and by far the best fert, long term, is the kind the fish produce. So, my tanks are all heavily stocked, so the large, frequent water changes are a must.

I have used some other liquids, but not for very long, because I really liked the hydroponics brand. Again, my tanks are low light, low tech, so if you have a high tech system, high end light set up, then these ferts may not work as well as others. 

B


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

What are the active ingredients in the products you are using? 

"Yamato Green"

"Microblast"

...the kind the fish produce...
this last one I know. In a low tech set up fish food (digested by fish or bacteria) is a reasonable source of most nutrients (macros and micros), though IME tends to be a bit low in potassium. CO2 from fish and from decomposing materials is also a bit low, but certainly is there.


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

OK, I googled it. 

The Yamato product line has a page about how to make DIY/Yeast CO2. Their products are not a source of CO2, or else they would sell you their products for carbon. 
Yamato Green comes in several forms with higher levels of N for example, or Fe, or other nutrients. The product that is simply called Yamato Green has Chelated Iron, Potassium and several micros. It boasts 'no phosphates'. 
http://www.yamatogreen.com/co2.htm

Microblast is trace minerals, not carbon. 
http://www.planetnatural.com/site/earth-juice-microblast.html
(this company has other interesting things for natural gardening and has been in business since before the internet)


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