# Complete Leak Check, CO2 pressurized system



## Bettatail

CO2 is toxic in higher concentrations: 1% (10,000 ppm) will make some people feel drowsy.[7] Concentrations of 7% to 10% cause dizziness, headache, visual and hearing dysfunction, and unconsciousness within a few minutes to an hour

---make sure your house ventilation is good, or your system is completely bullet proof.


This leak check is also a function check for Double stage Regulator.
(spray soap water test only for the reachable connection ports, if leaking is inside the regulator, soap water test is useless.
also, someone suggest dipping the whole system in water to test leak, don't even think about it, it is suicide if solenoid is 120V, or you will ruin the solenoid.)

*Step 1. *
A. Regulator handle completely loose(counter clockwise). 
B. Connect the regulator to the co2 tank, make sure the connection is secured.
C. Turn on the CO2 tank release handle slowly, CO2 inject into regulator, the HP gauge reading should be at 800 psi.
D. Shut the CO2 tank release handle, now the reading on the HP gauge should be 800 psi also.
E. Wait 6 hours, if the reading is the same, first stage is good, go to second step.

If the psi lower but the tank--regulator(soap water test), CGA 320 nipple--regulator(soap water test) and HP gauge--regulator(soap water test) connection ports are 100% no leak, your regulator is toasted--the leaking is inside(leaking HP gauge, punched diaphragm, diaphragm seal broken, or the poppet valve between the first stage and second stage chambers is not completely sealed.)

*Step 2.* 
continue from step one if success, now you have 800 psi of co2 isolated in the first stage chamber.
A. needle valve open.
B. Solenoid valve power off(shut).
C. Turn the regulator handle clockwise to charge the second stage chamber, fill to the regulator default outlet maximum.
D. Turn the regulator handle counter clockwise(completely loose).
E. Release the CO2 in the first stage chamber by turning loose the regulator-Tank connection screw(make sure the co2 tank is closed before you do this).
Now you have CO2 isolated in the second stage chamber.
F. Wait for 5-10 minutes(to ease the second stage diaphragm elastic issue, psi may drop right after the regulator handle turn loose, then it will stay), record the LP gauge psi reading.
G. Wait for 6 hours, if the change of new psi reading is within 1/8+ difference of original reading, go to step 3

If the psi lower a lot after 6 hours, redo step 2, soap water test on every reachable connection port(LP gauge--regulator, regulator--fittings, fittings--solenoid)
if leaking found, fix it

redo step 2.
no leak, go to step 3

if still leak.
Take out the solenoid, seal the outlet port of the regulator(make sure the sealed port has no leak)
redo step 2 without the solenoid.
if no leak, solenoid valve has issue.
if leaking still, regulator toasted.(similar problems as mentioned in step one)


*Step 3. *
A. connect the regulator back to the co2 tank, charge both stage charmbers(turn on the co2 tank release handle then the regulator handle, outlet psi set to your desire psi).
B. Turn on the solenoid valve.
C. Turn off the needle valve, soap water test, between the ports of solenoid and the needle valve.
D. Turn on the needle valve, soap water test for rest of the hose/NPT/hose barb connections.
E. if leaking found, fix it.

leak test and regulator functional check complete.


----------



## Rockhoe14er

wow great article about testing for leaks


----------



## audioaficionado

Please add a section for single stage regulators too.


----------



## btimmer92

audioaficionado said:


> Please add a section for single stage regulators too.


Step 1: get a dual stage 

lol jk


----------



## superflame

Bettatail said:


> *Step 1. *
> A. Regulator handle completely loose(counter clockwise).
> B. Connect the regulator to the co2 tank, make sure the connection is secured.
> C. Turn on the CO2 tank release handle slowly, CO2 inject into regulator, the HP gauge reading should be at 800 psi.
> D. Shut the CO2 tank release handle, now the reading on the HP gauge should be 800 psi also.
> E. Wait 6 hours, if the reading is the same, first stage is good, go to second step.


I performanced step 1 test and it is normal (800 psi). However, when I got back from a vaction (4 days) it dropped to 0 psi. The Co2 tank was in the off position. Is this normal?


----------



## audioaficionado

If the tank is off, the gauge will very slowly drop to zero after a few days.


----------



## Bettatail

audioaficionado said:


> If the tank is off, the gauge will very slowly drop to zero after a few days.


make sure the connection is tight, I have the same PSI reading for 3 days after CO2 tank close.


----------



## superflame

What if, my low repressure gauge is drop down to 0 psi also. I'm using the burket solenoid and it is unplugged. I try the soapy water method and appears no leak. 

Anybody test out to see if:

-Co2 tank is off for 3+ days shown 800+psi high pressure gauge ad 20 psi low gauge before it is turned off.
- unplugged solenoid


----------



## Bettatail

I use clippard Mouse solenoid, it is Buna-N internal seal, not the o-ring


----------



## OverStocked

audioaficionado said:


> If the tank is off, the gauge will very slowly drop to zero after a few days.


If there is no leaks, it shouldn't.


----------



## superflame

I just re-tighten everything and leave it off for 3 days to see if it will drop back to 0 psi. So far the reading is 900 psi and other gauge is 24 psi. So far, so good (already been an hour).


----------



## Bettatail

updated


----------



## herns

*Leak Check*

How do you check if a used regulator is good or bad without any fittings attach to it yet? (No solenoid, no metering valve, no brass/ stainless steel fittings, Nothing!).

This is particularly when someone buys a used regulator on e-b-a-y that has not been tested to be working or not. So, it can be returned within time period specified by the seller.


----------



## tetra73

herns said:


> How do you check if a used regulator is good or bad without any fittings attach to it yet? (No solenoid, no metering valve, no brass/ stainless steel fittings, Nothing!).
> 
> This is particularly when someone buys a used regulator in e-b-a-y that has not been tested to be working or not. So, it can be returned within time period specified by the seller.



You at least need CO2 coming into the regulator to test it. Attach the regulator to the CO2 tank. Makes sure the working pressure is reading 0 psi. The tank pressure should read 800 psi. Then, close the CO2 tank valve. The tank pressure should still be reading 800 psi. If after couple of days and the pressure is still reading 800 psi, you have no leaks from the regulator to the CO2 tank.


----------



## herns

tetra73 said:


> You at least need CO2 coming into the regulator to test it. Attach the regulator to the CO2 tank. Makes sure the working pressure is reading 0 psi. The tank pressure should read 800 psi. Then, close the CO2 tank valve. The tank pressure should still be reading 800 psi. If after couple of days and the pressure is still reading 800 psi, you have no leaks from the regulator to the CO2 tank.



After the test is done, how would you discharge the CO2 inside regulator? Just let it air out?


----------



## btimmer92

You would still need to test the seats and diaphragms. 

After you close the tank valve, just turn the knob real quickly and close it again to see if it regulates the pressure. 

Then set it at about 30psi, and hold your thumb strongly against the output and see if the LP chamber is leaking. 

Then, if it is a dual stage, set the psi to about 5, and let all the air empty out of the regulator. This will act as a mini end-of-tank-dump. If the working pressure stays at exactly 5psi until it empties, both seats and diaphragms are indeed working. 

A cheap needle valve or even a welding on-off valve would greatly help this experiment. And usually, a reg will come with the on-off valve.


----------



## bsmith

Bettatail said:


> CO2 is toxic in higher concentrations: 1% (10,000 ppm) will make some people feel drowsy.[7] Concentrations of 7% to 10% cause dizziness, headache, visual and hearing dysfunction, and unconsciousness within a few minutes to an hour
> 
> ---make sure your house ventilation is good, or your system is completely bullet proof.
> 
> 
> This leak check is also a function check for Double stage Regulator.
> (spray soap water test only for the reachable connection ports, if leaking is inside the regulator, soap water test is useless.
> also, someone suggest dipping the whole system in water to test leak, don't even think about it, it is suicide if solenoid is 120V, or you will ruin the solenoid.)
> 
> *Step 1. *
> A. Regulator handle completely loose(counter clockwise).
> B. Connect the regulator to the co2 tank, make sure the connection is secured.
> C. Turn on the CO2 tank release handle slowly, CO2 inject into regulator, the HP gauge reading should be at 800 psi.
> D. Shut the CO2 tank release handle, now the reading on the HP gauge should be 800 psi also.
> E. Wait 6 hours, if the reading is the same, first stage is good, go to second step.
> 
> If the psi lower but the tank--regulator(soap water test), CGA 320 nipple--regulator(soap water test) and HP gauge--regulator(soap water test) connection ports are 100% no leak, your regulator is toasted--the leaking is inside(leaking HP gauge, punched diaphragm, diaphragm seal broken, or the poppet valve between the first stage and second stage chambers is not completely sealed.)
> 
> *Step 2.*
> continue from step one if success, now you have 800 psi of co2 isolated in the first stage chamber.
> A. needle valve open.
> B. Solenoid valve power off(shut).
> C. Turn the regulator handle clockwise to charge the second stage chamber, fill to the regulator default outlet maximum.
> D. Turn the regulator handle counter clockwise(completely loose).
> E. Release the CO2 in the first stage chamber by turning loose the regulator-Tank connection screw(make sure the co2 tank is closed before you do this).
> Now you have CO2 isolated in the second stage chamber.
> F. Wait for 5-10 minutes(to ease the second stage diaphragm elastic issue, psi may drop right after the regulator handle turn loose, then it will stay), record the LP gauge psi reading.
> G. Wait for 6 hours, if the new psi reading is within 1/8+ difference of original reading, go to step 3
> 
> If the psi lower a lot after 6 hours, redo step 2, soap water test on every reachable connection port(LP gauge--regulator, regulator--fittings, fittings--solenoid)
> if leaking found, fix it
> 
> redo step 2.
> no leak, go to step 3
> 
> if still leak.
> Take out the solenoid, seal the outlet port of the regulator(make sure the sealed port has no leak)
> redo step 2 without the solenoid.
> if no leak, solenoid valve has issue.
> if leaking still, regulator toasted.(similar problems as mentioned in step one)
> 
> 
> *Step 3. *
> A. connect the regulator back to the co2 tank, charge both stage charmbers(turn on the co2 tank release handle then the regulator handle, outlet psi set to your desire psi).
> B. Turn on the solenoid valve.
> C. Turn off the needle valve, soap water test, between the ports of solenoid and the needle valve.
> D. Turn on the needle valve, soap water test for rest of the hose/NPT/hose barb connections.
> E. if leaking found, fix it.
> 
> leak test and regulator functional check complete.


Nice little write up. I cant imagine how many people have been frustrated/enraged when after running allover creation to swap/refill their co2 cylinder and hooking it up to find it completely empty a couple of days or hours later. I have done this more times then I like to admit and I really cannot think of any (in the whole scheme of things) not too serious issue that is more irritating. 



btimmer92 said:


> Step 1: get a dual stage
> 
> lol jk


I have said this so many times its not funny. I wish everyone would just get a nice used DSR to start. The equipment forum would be much less posted in because members would very likely have quite a bit less trouble with a good used DSR than with even a brand new SSR. 



OverStocked said:


> If there is no leaks, it shouldn't.


100% correct.


----------



## Bettatail

herns said:


> How do you check if a used regulator is good or bad without any fittings attach to it yet? (No solenoid, no metering valve, no brass/ stainless steel fittings, Nothing!).
> 
> This is particularly when someone buys a used regulator on e-b-a-y that has not been tested to be working or not. So, it can be returned within time period specified by the seller.



test the first chamber as tetra73 said(step one).
then use a 1/4" male npt plug to seal the outlet, test the second chamber(step two).

I just have a single stage that is leaking at the diaphragm, and no way to fix it, extra cost to me.


----------



## bsmith

On a side note/question. Is there any maintenance that needs to be preformed like lubricating/cleaning our DSR's at any point in time or any certain interval?

I have never heard of anything that needed to be done so I doubt there is but just to put it out there.


----------



## herns

Bettatail said:


> test the first chamber as tetra73 said(step one).
> then use a 1/4" male npt plug to seal the outlet, test the second chamber(step two).
> 
> I just have a single stage that is leaking at the diaphragm, and no way to fix it, extra cost to me.



Okay, so I test my Victors today following step 1. After releasing the CO2 tank slowly, the gauge reads at 800 psi but there was a pressure coming out from the joint (see no. 3 point) where the relief fitting and the regulator is. (see photos below.)

I dont know if this is a leak or a normal release pressure coming out from the relief valve (no.2). But, when I open the hose adapter of the regulator to release CO2 (no.1), the pressure coming out from the relief valve seems to stop.

Has anyone experience the same way with Victor Reg test? Is this normal? I test both Regulators and ended with the same results.

No. 3, clouded, is where the pressure is coming out.









Close up


----------



## Bettatail

take out the relief valves, and seal the port with a 1/4" male npt plug, and test it again.


the relief valve, I am not sure what is the problem, may be the pressure setting is low.


----------



## audioaficionado

My Victor VTS450 passed with flying colors, but the next day after I had started using it for over 24 hours, the pressure relief valve started popping off all the time. I just plugged it for now with a 1/4" plug and all is well.


----------



## herns

audioaficionado said:


> My Victor VTS450 passed with flying colors, but the next day after I had started using it for over 24 hours, the pressure relief valve started popping off all the time. I just plugged it for now with a 1/4" plug and all is well.



So, its the relief valve. Do you have the same area where the pressure is coming out (from photos)?

I was surprised because both of them has the same issue.
Thanks for the input.


----------



## herns

I just found a similar issue on this thread.


http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/equipment/83635-co2-regulator-pressure-relief-valve.html


----------



## audioaficionado

Yeah it was coming out of your fig #2. Unless the house catches fire, I don't think I have to worry about my 20# CO2 tank exceeding 3000 psi regulator limit and then it might be helpful if it did explode.


----------



## btimmer92

Steve, the relief valve doesn't protect your inlet pressure from exceeding 3000, it keeps the pressure after the first seat from going above the middle pressure, in your case, 300psi. 

Hern, If the actual cap on the relief valve were leaking, that would mean the 1st stage seat is broken, not lowering the pressure. That is how you quickly tell if your regulator's first stage is broken, (and it would work just like a single stage regulator, but possibly break the components on the second stage).

However, if your valve is leaking at the threads it is simply not sealed. There may be nothing wrong with any of it. Just take out those relief valves, clean off the threads, and use some good old pipe thread sealant on them, and then screw them back in tightly. It doesn't look like there is anything sealing those connections where the relief valves are. Whoever previously owned them was ignorant/uninformed. You need some kind of pipe thread sealant to seal all pipe thread connections. That should solve your problem. Hope that helps, Hern.


----------



## herns

I have plenty of Oatey pipe sealant. I would try that and thanks for your input.

-Herns



btimmer92 said:


> Steve, the relief valve doesn't protect your inlet pressure from exceeding 3000, it keeps the pressure after the first seat from going above the middle pressure, in your case, 300psi.
> 
> Hern, If the actual cap on the relief valve were leaking, that would mean the 1st stage seat is broken, not lowering the pressure. That is how you quickly tell if your regulator's first stage is broken, (and it would work just like a single stage regulator, but possibly break the components on the second stage).
> 
> However, if your valve is leaking at the threads it is simply not sealed. There may be nothing wrong with any of it. Just take out those relief valves, clean off the threads, and use some good old pipe thread sealant on them, and then screw them back in tightly. It doesn't look like there is anything sealing those connections where the relief valves are. Whoever previously owned them was ignorant/uninformed. You need some kind of pipe thread sealant to seal all pipe thread connections. That should solve your problem. Hope that helps, Hern.


----------



## audioaficionado

btimmer92 said:


> Steve, the relief valve doesn't protect your inlet pressure from exceeding 3000, it keeps the pressure after the first seat from going above the middle pressure, in your case, 300psi.
> 
> Hern, If the actual cap on the relief valve were leaking, that would mean the 1st stage seat is broken, not lowering the pressure. That is how you quickly tell if your regulator's first stage is broken, (and it would work just like a single stage regulator, but possibly break the components on the second stage).


Learn something new every day. My regulator passed all phases of the Bettatail test. The next day is when it started unseating the relief valve. I've seen some say that it's OK to plug the hole and don't worry about the relief valve. Others say you can't fix 'em and have to replace it. I could try and replace the O ring, but a new valve is not gonna be cheap.


----------



## TerriM

This has been very, very helpful. Thank you for taking the time to go through it step by step. Very much appreciated!


----------



## JRMott

On the topic of leaks, how do you prevent leaks where the tubing connects to the check valve? I think I need a check valve with barbs for a better seal.


----------



## PlantedRich

I had not seen this topic but it brings up some questions that I had not thought about. I'm new to CO so the answer may be obvious to others. 
Looking at the pictures, the leak at three does just look like the threads are not sealed well but I question the pressure relief valve. This just looks like a fitting with a plug in the end. Is it in fact a relief valve that works in some way I don't see? 
Any info?


----------



## Bubba_Shrimp

Hi,

I'm at the step 2 currently. In the morning I had low pressure set to approximattely 98-99 psi. 10 hours later it dropped to around 92 psi.

Is this OK or bad?


----------



## oldpunk78

A 6-7 drop in psi usually just means you have a leak in the low pressure side somewhere. Check the gauges and any ports that could leak.


----------



## chevy6960

I am a little confused with the end of step 2. Instructions state 
"G. Wait for 6 hours, if the new psi reading is within 1/8+ difference of original reading, go to step 3 If the psi lower a lot after 6 hours..."

I completed step 2 and after 12 hours my low pressure gauge dropped 3/4 to 1 psi (is this considered a lot)? Also the temperature got colder by 20° and ambient air temperature has been near 40° during test . Is this acceptable or is there a leak? Thanks


----------



## Bettatail

chevy6960 said:


> I am a little confused with the end of step 2. Instructions state
> "G. Wait for 6 hours, if the new psi reading is within 1/8+ difference of original reading, go to step 3 If the psi lower a lot after 6 hours..."
> 
> I completed step 2 and after 12 hours my low pressure gauge dropped 3/4 to 1 psi (is this considered a lot)? Also the temperature got colder by 20° and ambient air temperature has been near 40° during test . Is this acceptable or is there a leak? Thanks


Original:
G. Wait for 6 hours, if the new psi reading is within 1/8+ difference of original reading, go to step 3


Correction:
G. Wait for 6 hours, if the change of new psi reading is within 1/8+ difference of original reading, go to step 3


----------



## Darkblade48

chevy6960 said:


> I am a little confused with the end of step 2. Instructions state
> "G. Wait for 6 hours, if the new psi reading is within 1/8+ difference of original reading, go to step 3 If the psi lower a lot after 6 hours..."
> 
> I completed step 2 and after 12 hours my low pressure gauge dropped 3/4 to 1 psi (is this considered a lot)? Also the temperature got colder by 20° and ambient air temperature has been near 40° during test . Is this acceptable or is there a leak? Thanks


As Bettatail mentioned, it is the change in pressure that you are looking at (i.e. the pressure should not drop more than 12.5% of the original value. If your PSI was set at 30 PSI for example, you would not want it to drop to lower than ~26 PSI).

If your low pressure gauge dropped 75%, then you have a significant leak somewhere (or there may be something wrong with the second stage regulation if you are using a dual stage regulator).

Are you sure your working pressure dropped to 1 PSI? If so, it indicates a leak (or you are working with extremely low working pressures...why?)

You should ideally be testing your CO2 system in a stable temperature environment; having the temperature fluctuate 20 degrees (Celsius? Fahrenheit? I assume Fahrenheit...) and then having it operating at 40 (again...Celsius? Fahrenheit? Again, I assume Fahrenheit) is too large of a change to accurately determine whether the changes in pressure are due to a leak or just temperature fluctuations.

I would set the working pressure to ~30 PSI, set the CO2 setup indoors where the temperature is more stable, and then see if it changes over the course of 6 hours.


----------



## chevy6960

Sorry i did not give enough detail. What i meant to say was my low pressure gauge dropped from 15 psi to 14.25 psi in 12 hours. Is this acceptable?


----------



## Darkblade48

chevy6960 said:


> Sorry i did not give enough detail. What i meant to say was my low pressure gauge dropped from 15 psi to 14.25 psi in 12 hours. Is this acceptable?


That is fine.

You only lost 14.25/15 = 0.95%, so a negligible amount.


----------



## hyunbaw

Thanks for another helpful thread. 

Any way to do step 1 with a paintball canister (since there is no shut off valve)?


----------



## Darkblade48

hyunbaw said:


> Thanks for another helpful thread.
> 
> Any way to do step 1 with a paintball canister (since there is no shut off valve)?


Without an ASA shutoff valve, it will be impossible.


----------



## hyunbaw

Ok, then anyone live around englewood nj that can help me test my victor? X(


----------



## Mathman

Hello,

I started testing a victor 453d regulator yesterday night. Please see the pics and let me know if it passed the test. Please excuse the date as I, for some reason, typed them in incorrectly. The first pics was taken yesterday whereas the other three today. Thanks!










~Cris


----------



## Bettatail

Mathman said:


> Hello,
> 
> I started testing a victor 453d regulator yesterday night. Please see the pics and let me know if it passed the test. Please excuse the date as I, for some reason, typed them in incorrectly. The first pics was taken yesterday whereas the other three today. Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~Cris


slow leak on the LP side, and it took 10 hours to drop 20 psi, the actual leak rate is less than 0.1 bubble/second.
Normally such slow leak the soapy water test doesn't work, because you can't see the foams, the co2 sip through the soapy water not fast enough to push out visible tiny bubbles.
take out the LP gauge and the relief valve, make better seal on the threads and put them back on the regulator, then test the LP side again.


----------



## Mathman

So just remove the LP and relief valve and redo the Teflon? Is it possible that the leak is also from the post body?










I have a 1/4"-1/8" bushing....1/8" nipple...to the solenoid which is closed.

My LP gauge read close to 80psi (look at the previous post) and dropped to (40 psi). What is an acceptable drop? From 80psi-?


----------



## kevmo911

Mathman said:


> Hello,
> 
> I started testing a victor 453d regulator yesterday night. Please see the pics and let me know if it passed the test. Please excuse the date as I, for some reason, typed them in incorrectly. The first pics was taken yesterday whereas the other three today. Thanks!
> 
> ~Cris


Just curious - have you tried testing with soapy water yet?


----------



## Mathman

kevmo911 said:


> Just curious - have you tried testing with soapy water yet?


Since there was no leak on the first stage...can't I just test connections running by opening the co2 tank and have the LP gauge at a working pressure of 40psi? That way I can do a soapy water test?


----------



## Bettatail

Mathman said:


> So just remove the LP and relief valve and redo the Teflon? Is it possible that the leak is also from the post body?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have a 1/4"-1/8" bushing....1/8" nipple...to the solenoid which is closed.
> 
> My LP gauge read close to 80psi (look at the previous post) and dropped to (40 psi). What is an acceptable drop? From 80psi-?


didn't see you have a postbody, I though it was the regulator only.
I think the slow leak is from the postbody.

please take them apart and re-seal, and a separate test on the regulator only(seal the regulator outlet with 1/4" npt plug, and test the LP side), so you can be sure the regulator is ok.

If you only have the teflon tape to seal, make sure the tape wrap around the threads properly, and press in before you connect the fittings.

there is a small secret for teflon tape method, wet the threads with only a little bit of mineral oil, the tape is better against tear when assemble, and mineral oil will provide better seal, (surface tension to stop co2 push through at micro pore size gaps)


----------



## Mathman

I like that and ill try it. Ill plug the outlet to remove other variables...I will apply a drop of mineral oil prior to adding the yellow Teflo...just curious isn't the mineral going to make it slippery?


----------



## oldpunk78

Mathman said:


> just curious isn't the mineral going to make it slippery?


That's the point


----------



## Mathman

Do you find it necessary for me to redo the Teflon on the LP and relief valve Or should I just plug the outlet and retest?


----------



## oldpunk78

I would see if I could find any bubbles in any of the joints and then proceed. I usually just plug the reg and test it alone first though.


----------



## Mathman

Don't have any 1/4" MNPT plug ..trip to HD


----------



## Bettatail

Mathman said:


> Do you find it necessary for me to redo the Teflon on the LP and relief valve Or should I just plug the outlet and retest?


test first.




Mathman said:


> I like that and ill try it. Ill plug the outlet to remove other variables...I will apply a drop of mineral oil prior to adding the yellow Teflo...just curious isn't the mineral going to make it slippery?


wrap the tape on male threads and press in, then wet with mineral oil, ONLY A LITTLE BIT, enough to cover the metal with thin layer of oil, use Q-tip.


----------



## Mathman

Regulator outlet is now plugged. What is the target pressure on the LPG to test for leakage?


----------



## Darkblade48

Mathman said:


> Regulator outlet is now plugged. What is the target pressure on the LPG to test for leakage?


No real target; just set it to some arbitrary value (say 30-40 PSI), make a note of it, and then wait. Make sure gas is not flowing from the first stage to the second stage regulation.

If it drops more than 10% or so, then check your plug first to ensure it is not leaking. If you are absolutely sure that it is not leaking, and the pressure is still dropping, then your regulator has a problem.


----------



## Mathman

Darkblade48 said:


> No real target; just set it to some arbitrary value (say 30-40 PSI), make a note of it, and then wait. Make sure gas is not flowing from the first stage to the second stage regulation.
> 
> If it drops more than 10% or so, then check your plug first to ensure it is not leaking. If you are absolutely sure that it is not leaking, and the pressure is still dropping, then your regulator has a problem.


Thanks for explaining this Anthony...it makes a lot more sense now.


----------



## Mathman

Thanks for the last PPM bettatail...

Here's what I just finished doing...I removed the relief valve and plugged the port using a 1/4" NPT plug...the same was done for the outlet port. 










I connected the regulator to the co2 tank, opened the co2 release handle and now the HP gauge reads "800 psi" (I decided not to wait 6 hours to see if there was a pressure decrease on the HP gauge as I had already done this before and there was no change whatsoever.) So, I closed the co2 tank release handle and opened the regulator valve to charged the LPG to 100 psi, then closed the regulator valve (counter-clockwise) completely. Finally, I removed the regulator from the co2 tank. I waited 10 minutes and took a picture as shown below to record the reading on my LPG (95 psi).











It has been ~11 minutes and the new reading is 90 psi.










Finally, after a total of 6.5 hours the new reading is ~42psi.










At this point, I'm almost certain that there's an issue at the second stage of the regulator.

I will do a soapy water test on both plugs and the LPG...I even have an extra LPG that I can use to narrow the locations of a leak.

Let me know your thoughts.

BTW: I am only doing about 2-2.5 turns of yellow Teflon on the male threads...should I be doing more?


----------



## kevmo911

I'd retape the LPG and plugs with slightly more tape (though 2-2.5 wraps with yellow should generally be fine), make sure everything is nice and tight, and try one more time. Since the alternative is a huge hassle, I'd desperately hope it was a simple leak from a port.


----------



## Mathman

Thanks....I just tried the soapy water test and its very difficult to notice any leaks ( the leak is not fast enough to cause any visible bubbles). I will remove the LPG and both plugs...redo the Connections with more Teflon. I hope that does it.


----------



## oldpunk78

Make sure all of your connections are tight. No one really mentions it, but you need to get those things tight. At least tight enough that worrying about messing up the fittings. I'm not really sure how else to explain this. Basicly, as tight as you can get the connections without messing anything up...


----------



## Mathman

What are the chances that it is the LPG?

Thanks Josh...this time I'm going all strength.


----------



## Darkblade48

The low pressure gauge looks fine to me, from a visual inspection, but you usually can't tell if things are working 100% of the time from just a visual inspection. 

As oldpunk78 mentioned, I would just make sure you torque everything as tightly as you can (without damaging anything) and give it a few more wraps of teflon as well.


----------



## Mathman

I just finished redoing the Teflon....3 turns on each the LPG and the two plugs. The initial reading is at 90psi. We shall see what happens...last time I noticed a change within 30 mins...so, now it's a wait and see moment...ill get back to you guys.


----------



## Mathman

I'm back...

Here's the first reading










Second reading:










Third and final reading:










Clearly there must be a leak on the second chamber of this reg. I used a 1/4" plug on the relief valve and outlet ports. There shouldn't be any decrease in pressure unless it is leaking from the LPG...

I redid all the connections the LPG and the two plugs making sure to do three turns of yellow teflon and tightening as much as I could keeping in mind not to overdo it with my mighty strength.

This is a very small and maybe insignificant leak but is it worth keeping the reg? 

This is a Victor SR 453d meant to be used with CO2...I like the size of the reg and gauges but sadly it leaks.

Yes, it is a one stage reg but adding a good needle valve would have made this a nice rig.

Any thoughts?


----------



## Darkblade48

Mathman said:


> Clearly there must be a leak on the second chamber of this reg. I used a 1/4" plug on the relief valve and outlet ports. There shouldn't be any decrease in pressure unless it is leaking from the LPG...





Mathman said:


> Yes, it is a one stage reg but adding a good needle valve would have made this a nice rig.


I am confused; did you test a single stage regulator using dual stage regulator instructions?


Mathman said:


> This is a very small and maybe insignificant leak but is it worth keeping the reg?


My opinion would be to trash it (or get it repaired, if you can get it done cheaply).


----------



## Mathman

Isn't bettatail's guide for both single and two stage regulators?


----------



## Darkblade48

Mathman said:


> Isn't bettatail's guide for both single and two stage regulators?





Mathman said:


> So, I closed the co2 tank release handle and opened the regulator valve to charged the LPG to 100 psi, then closed the regulator valve (counter-clockwise) completely. *Finally, I removed the regulator from the co2 tank.* I waited 10 minutes and took a picture as shown below to record the reading on my LPG (95 psi).
> 
> At this point, I'm almost certain that there's an issue at the* second stage* of the regulator.


The way you have written out your previous posts makes it sound like you have a dual stage regulator, when in fact, you apparently do not.

When you remove the regulator from the CO2 cylinder, without the second stage of regulation, it is possible that the gas just escapes back through the high pressure inlet, no? Perhaps oldpunk78 or Bettatail can chime in on this.

If you do not have a dual stage regulator, then I do not see how you are trapping your CO2 in the second stage of regulation (since the regulator does not have a second stage...)


----------



## Mathman

That's an interesting point; however, I've tested a single stage Matheson regulator the same way and there was no decrease of pressure reading on the LPG.


----------



## Bettatail

the step to test second chamber(low pressure side) on the regulator is the same for single or double stage regulators.

at this point, Mathman, you need to return that regulator if it is possible, and remember when you buy a used regulator, spend a little bit more to buy a good condition one so less chance you meet problems. These second hand regulators are dirt cheap anyway, compare to their original retail which is hundreds a piece or even more than thousand dollars a piece.


----------



## vvDO

Is it possible for the gauge itself to leak besides at its attachment to the reg? And where else could the leak occur in Mathman's case? into the higher pressure compartment of the regulator? I'm just curious.


----------



## oldpunk78

vvDO said:


> Is it possible for the gauge itself to leak besides at its attachment to the reg?


Yes. It's not very common but it can happen.


> And where else could the leak occur in Mathman's case? into the higher pressure compartment of the regulator? I'm just curious.


Assuming it passed the test on the high pressure side, the leak is either coming through the diaphragm or one of the ports. I bet it's probably the diaphragm at this point.


----------



## Darkblade48

Mathman said:


> That's an interesting point; however, I've tested a single stage Matheson regulator the same way and there was no decrease of pressure reading on the LPG.





oldpunk78 said:


> Assuming it passed the test on the high pressure side, the leak is either coming through the diaphragm or one of the ports. I bet it's probably the diaphragm at this point.


+1. I'd also be willing to put my money on a leaky diaphragm at this point.

You can try to repair it if you have the tools/repair parts, though you might be better off just trying to get another regulator instead.


----------



## Mathman

Thanks for all the input. I will be returning the regulator to the seller this week.

On a side note, I will be testing a victor hpt 270c tonight. 

Who is in for more fun?

BTW, this is the matheson reg that passed the test:










What do you guys think?


----------



## FlyingHellFish

*Matheson , Parker, Swagelok , Red Bull *


----------



## oldpunk78

FlyingHellFish said:


> *Matheson , Parker, Swagelok , Red Bull *


Oh man, I want a red bull frig. :/


----------



## FlyingHellFish

I just feel wrong putting anything else in there beside Red Bull, and it really expensive to load it up. 

Maybe Red Bull will sell these, can't be more than 200.


----------



## Mathman

The HPT 270C passed the test and I just finished the post body. One question: 

The HPT 270c came with this installed in the relief valve port:










Now, I have a 1/4" plug that I can use instead of the chrome fitting it came with. 









What are your thoughts?


----------



## Mathman

Here's a pic of the rig BTW:


----------



## Darkblade48

I would leave the pressure relief valve in place; it is there for a reason.


----------



## Mathman

Doesn't it look like just a big plug? I don't see where the gas can scape.


----------



## Bettatail

this style look better:


----------



## Darkblade48

Mathman said:


> Doesn't it look like just a big plug? I don't see where the gas can scape.


Not quite sure why there is a blue plug in your pressure relief valve (did you place it there, or was it there originally?)

Normally, the ones I have seen do not have a plug in them. When pressure rises above a certain point, a spring loaded valve usually pops up, releasing the extra pressure back down to safe levels.


----------



## Mathman

It came like that it is something I can remove though.


----------



## Darkblade48

I would remove the blue plastic (probably is there to protect the pressure relief valve) and then just put it back in place.

Using a closed nut there is not recommended.


----------



## Mathman

I just removed it.

Here's a pic of the inside:









Is this how it is suppose to look?

How do you know if a relief valve is working?


----------



## Mathman

Bettatail said:


> this style look better:


I like that setup bettatail. I have another huge problem. I have that same solenoid on your pic but the tiny wires broke by the black casing and there's no way for me to connect the wires. Any way this can be fixed? I don't like that model of the burkert solenoid and shouldn't have purchased it.


----------



## Darkblade48

Mathman said:


> I just removed it.
> 
> Here's a pic of the inside:
> 
> Is this how it is suppose to look?
> 
> How do you know if a relief valve is working?


Looks similar to the one I have on my Victor HPT272.

I suppose the only real way to check it is to purposefully overfill your cylinder - but no reputable store will do that.

In essence, just "trust" that it works.


----------



## Mathman

Okay. Thanks. I will install it. Also, what the heck is the working pressure on this HPT 270C? I'm having a hard time going past the 15-20 psi! 

I looked online and the working pressure is suppose to be 4-80 psig. Arrg.


----------



## Bettatail

Mathman said:


> Okay. Thanks. I will install it. Also, what the heck is the working pressure on this HPT 270C? I'm having a hard time going past the 15-20 psi!
> 
> I looked online and the working pressure is suppose to be 4-80 psig. Arrg.


If it is a 270C, adjust the back screw to set it back to 80psi max output, be extremely careful, don't turn the back screw too much and it takes a long time to move that LP output to manufacture original setting.

Do it on you own risk:biggrin:


----------



## Mathman

Bettatail please elaborate more as I do not understand what "back screw" you are mentioning.

Here's a comparison of my hpt 207C and the Milwaukee


----------



## Bettatail

Mathman said:


> Bettatail please elaborate more as I do not understand what "back screw" you are mentioning.
> 
> Here's a comparison of my hpt 207C and the Milwaukee


the back of the regulator, there is a screw with a screw head cap fitting on top, and usually there is sticker says "do not adjust".
apparently it was adjusted so the output pressure can not pass 20psi, otherwise it should be around 80 psi max output as manufacture default setting.

add: you must be sure that your HPT 270 is a "C", not "A", so you can play with the back screw, and don't trust the LP gauge(max reading) to decide if it is a "C" or "A".


----------



## Mathman




----------



## Bettatail

:thumbsup:


----------



## Mathman

Clockwise or counter clockwise...also, do I do this having the reg attached to the co2 tank?


----------



## Darkblade48

Mathman said:


> I like that setup bettatail. I have another huge problem. I have that same solenoid on your pic but the tiny wires broke by the black casing and there's no way for me to connect the wires. Any way this can be fixed? I don't like that model of the burkert solenoid and shouldn't have purchased it.


Wire to wire resoldering or for a cleaner look, just open up the case and resolder the wires completely.


----------



## Mathman

Darkblade48 said:


> Wire to wire resoldering or for a cleaner look, just open up the case and resolder the wires completely.


That's a weekend project. Haha.

Is the back screw suppose to be hard to move? I'm scared to turn it too much.


----------



## Mathman

Yay...with some playing around I was able to set it to 80psi


----------



## Bettatail

groves, safety glasses, or mask if you have one.

1. put the relief valve back on.
2. take out the back screw cap
3. put the system on the co2 tank, but keep the co2 tank shut.
4.adjust the back screw with allen key.
a. remember/mark the original position of the screw.
b. turn it clock wise to increase the pressure, 1/4 of a complete turn
c. turn on co2 tank, charge reg with 800 psi, then shut off the co2 tank.
d. turn the front handle to check max output(post body kit shut)
e. release all pressure in the regulator, set the front handle to off position.

repeat a -- e, until the max output goes up to what you desire, but not excess 80psi.

if any step you see the relief valve start releasing gas, stop and go the opposite way until the relief valve stop venting gas, and no further try to increase the max output pressure.
finally, Do it on your own risk.


----------



## Bettatail

Mathman said:


> Yay...with some playing around I was able to set it to 80psi


that is fast, even before I made the instruction, lol.


----------



## Mathman

I loosen the screw just a bit, turned the front knob (regulating valve) to increase it to 80psi, then tighten the back screw. I did this while having the reg attached to the co2 tank completely opened.

I did not remove the back knob completely.


----------



## Bettatail

:icon_eek:

probably the back screw or the spring in the back sit at the wrong position(inside), a loose and re-tighten set them back the right place.


----------



## Mathman

I hope everything is working fine. Ill check tomorrow mornkng if there's a change in pressure for both gauges.

Next project is to fix the burkert solenoid.


----------



## Bettatail

cut the other wire, and find two small sharp point screws, stainless steel and proper size, drill into the plastic, use the screw heads as prongs.


----------



## Mathman

That's an interesting idea. Will it work? Is this something you've tried?


----------



## Bettatail

no, never try, but it will work, just make sure the screws are right size, drill where the wires embed, but don't drill too deep, you don't want to damage the coil.


----------



## Mathman

Ill have to try that as clearly there's no way to remove the plastic casing to re solder new wires. Do you have this solenoid bettatail?


----------



## Bettatail

didn't I just show the picture?


----------



## Mathman

Hahaha...I'm just tired man.

By the way, the setup you have, I believe, would be too much of a crowded rig with 2.5" gauges


----------



## Bettatail

Mathman said:


> By the way, the setup you have, I believe, would be too much of a crowded rig with 2.5" gauges


ya, just a quick put-together to show the better style. the 2 1/2" gauge not get in the way, once you figure out how to screw the parts in specific order.
the only problem is that all parts are 316 grade stainless steel, a postbody like this just cost too high to put together.


----------



## reconmarui

Is my DIY co2 system going to kill
Me in my sleep?


----------



## oldpunk78

reconmarui said:


> Is my DIY co2 system going to kill
> Me in my sleep?


Probably.


----------



## reconmarui

At least my house plants will be ok


----------



## FlyingHellFish

Got my Brass Chrome CGA 320 nipple and nut today, check out what J and R welding added to the box. 

I told them, jokingly, in the special instruction selection to draw a fish on the box. They came through.


----------



## oldpunk78

I think they sell a lot of nipples to use. That's cool anyways...


----------



## FlyingHellFish

Would there be any problems setting it up to test and removing the post body kit later? I don't have the solenoid I want yet but I do have a cheap solenoid and needle valve to test the regulator. 

Uhmm... you open the knob all the way while having the solenoid on and needle valve open a bit, then turn on the Co2 cylinder, right?


----------



## oldpunk78

FlyingHellFish said:


> Would there be any problems setting it up to test and removing the post body kit later?


No, you just need to make sure you clean up all the ports really well before you put it together again.


----------



## FlyingHellFish

When you close the knob (counter clock wise) so does that means that no co2 will enter the 2nd stage, what about the solenoid/needle valve, should they be closed too? 

What should the LP gauge read? I haven't connected anything yet.


----------



## oldpunk78

If you are leak testing your regulator:

-Connect it to the cylinder
-make sure knob is unscrewed
-open cylinder valve
-close cylinder calve
-wait... come back later, check that the pressure is the same
-if no leaks, adjust the working pressure to whatever (output is closed/plugged)
-wait... comeback later, check that the pressure is the same (it should stay here indefinitely if there are no leaks)

No changes in pressure = functional regulator w/o leaks.

^ I believe Bettatail covers this in the first page of this thread... (with more detail and more explanation too)


----------



## Mathman

This is my advice based on what I learned from this forum with help of bettatail, oldpunk, and others:

It is best to test a reg with the outlet plugged that way you know the reg is completely leak free. When attaching a solenoid and needle valve to the oulet all you are doing is adding other potential areas for leakage unless you know 100% that your Teflon work was done perfectly.

Connect the regulator to the co2 tank, make sure to turn the knob on the reg counter clockwise to leave it completely closed...now open the co2 valve slowly and check to see that the HPG reads 800psi. Close the co2 tank, record the reading, wait 6-8 hours. Check the reading to see if it's the same. If it it is congrats move to the next step.

Now, turn the reg knob clockwise slowly until a desired pressure is reached ( it really doesn't matter what pressure- you could do 40 psi if you want). Once that is done. Remove the reg from the co2 tank, wait 5-10 minutes and record the reading on the LPG and wait 6-8 hours.

If the reading is the same or less than 10% of what you started with then you reg is good.


----------



## Mathman

I had previously tested a VTS 250D for leaks and it failed as it released co2 from its back small holes. I got curious about the back screw of the VTS 250 and decided to turn it and was surprised to see how easy it was to remove the HP housing cap.










I removed what appears to be the HP diaphragm assembly


















I also notice two small holes...could this be were the co2 is leaking from?


















Any thoughts?


----------



## FlyingHellFish

^ No idea, but thanks again for the help. That teflon trick was pretty slick, I wonder if they sell a smaller width version. 

So this is what I end up with, I was trying to add in the Parker H3 but I'll do that tomorrow, maybe even pick up a solenoid. The majority of the time was me wrapping and cleaning and re-wrapping those gauges. I could never get it right until I move the body of the regulator and not the gauges. Argh, so very tired now. 










g' night all


----------



## Mathman

Anyone else have an input to my last post?


----------



## oldpunk78

Those holes and that corrosion are likely the culprit.


----------



## Mathman

Is there a place online where you can buy just the HP diaphragm assembly?

Is it even worth it going through all this trouble?


----------



## Darkblade48

Mathman said:


> Is there a place online where you can buy just the HP diaphragm assembly?
> 
> Is it even worth it going through all this trouble?


I haven't found any online sources; I always just go to my (somewhat) local welding store.

Depending on your luck though, the repair parts might end up costing more than buying another (used) regulator.


----------



## oldpunk78

Mathman said:


> Is it even worth it going through all this trouble?


Not in my opinion.


----------



## FlyingHellFish

A bit confused on step 2, 

1. I don't have a solenoid hooked up, skip that part right?
2. Why would you want the needle valve to be open? Wouldn't you release the Co2?
3. If you disconnect the regulator from the *closed Co2 tank, that 800 - 1000 psi that burst out. I did it before and it's like a BANG.


----------



## Bettatail

FlyingHellFish said:


> A bit confused on step 2,
> 
> 1. I don't have a solenoid hooked up, skip that part right?
> 2. Why would you want the needle valve to be open? Wouldn't you release the Co2?
> 3. If you disconnect the regulator from the *closed Co2 tank, that 800 - 1000 psi that burst out. I did it before and it's like a BANG.





> 1. I don't have a solenoid hooked up, skip that part right?


if you only want to test the second stage, skip the solenoid. step 2 also test the leak of body kit (from the regulator to the solenoid).



> 2. Why would you want the needle valve to be open? Wouldn't you release the Co2?


There are two sub steps here, 
1. needle valve open, solenoid close, so if solenoid has internal leak, the co2 can vent out from the needle valve and PSI reading will drop.
2. needle valve close, solenoid open(power on), to test the post body for leak up to the needle valve(for needle valve that can be shutoff and stop the air flow).



> 3. If you disconnect the regulator from the *closed Co2 tank, that 800 - 1000 psi that burst out. I did it before and it's like a BANG.


I think I did mention turn loose the CGA nut slowly and let the co2 escape from first stage, so no "BANG"


----------



## Bettatail

Mathman said:


> Any thoughts?


broken diaphragm.

let me check my junk box, I remember I have a couple dead VTS 250 regs, one of them is front(second stage) diaphragm damage, the back diaphragm can be used for replacement parts.

or you can send me the front diaphragm so I can revive mine.

BTW, a new system, Top of the Matheson hierarchy, a 9400 stainless steel.


>


----------



## Mathman

That is sexy.

Bettatail.. I Need your help boss... Could you search for my thread "burkert 2822" thanks!

Would be great if you can find a replacement for my broken diaphragm.


----------



## oldpunk78

Bettatail said:


> BTW, a new system, Top of the Matheson hierarchy, a 9400 stainless steel.


Nice Ultra Line. 

That is the CLEANEST tape job I have ever seen. Kudos to you.


----------



## Bettatail

oldpunk78 said:


> Nice Ultra Line.
> 
> That is the CLEANEST tape job I have ever seen. Kudos to you.


thanks, Josh, and there will be a couple more projects, a new swagelok regulator and a new Chiyoda seiki.

picture of the Chiyoda Seiki(千代田精机) with parts, 

















swagelok gauges, 0-60psi and 0-3000psi.


----------



## Bettatail

Mathman said:


> Could you search for my thread "burkert 2822"


Couldn't find it, what was your question?


----------



## FlyingHellFish

I'm not even going to google how much that Matheson 9400 cost. Don't want to know. 

Hey Betta tail, so I talk to Swagelok and they mention Brass with SS isn't ideal. I'm stuck with SS fittings tho, they told me it should be fine because it's not outside etc.

I'm sure you have a ton of experience with brass/ss and I know I ask you this before but, just to be clear, teflon and less torque right?

I just rig this up to test the first stage, disregard the nasty looking brass. I'm waiting for my Swagelok ss tee fittings. 










Quite the learning experience with teflon tape, a lot harder than it looks.


----------



## oldpunk78

Bettatail said:


> swagelok gauges, 0-60psi and 0-3000psi.


Ya know what's silly?

If you buy the gauge from WIKA, it comes in a plain cardboard box. Order the same gauge from Swagelok and it comes encapsulated in foam...


----------



## oldpunk78

Bettatail said:


> Couldn't find it, what was your question?


http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=267706


----------



## Bettatail

oldpunk78 said:


> Ya know what's silly?
> 
> If you buy the gauge from WIKA, it comes in a plain cardboard box. Order the same gauge from Swagelok and it comes encapsulated in foam...


Swagelok and Wika, they are the same gauges, also, there is same model:the pacifica scientific guages. They are all the same as NAGANO SEIKO.
I think these gauges were manufactured in Japan,:confused1:, but don't know who owns who, (wika looks bigger and might be the boss, and some of the wika are manufactured in Germany), capital can not be bonded by borders, globalization sure goes far.


----------



## Bettatail

FlyingHellFish said:


> I'm not even going to google how much that Matheson 9400 cost. Don't want to know.


It depends, I never buy a regulator from manufacture direct distributor/retailer.
and actually I bought that Matheson 9400 back in 2011, when I started research on what I could get to build a high quality system. People only knew Victor, Victor and Victor at the time and kept beating the dead horse.

Same as Burkert 6011 solenoid, Ideal needle valve, all dead horses that some people kept beating, never had the will to expend their sights on what they don't know.

I bought that Matheson 9400 for $35, if I remember it right.:icon_lol:
It is rare, and a 1/4 NPT port version even rarer, for almost two years didn't touch it because just couldn't find anything suitable to go with it.



> teflon and less torque right?


 teflon and enough torque



> Swagelok ss tee fittings.


Nice fitting, really cost but looks like you are going to build this system to serve your planted tank hobby for a lifetime.


----------



## FlyingHellFish

Bettatail said:


> People only knew Victor, Victor and Victor at the time and kept beating the dead horse.
> 
> Same as Burkert 6011 solenoid, Ideal needle valve, all dead horses that some people kept beating, never had the will to expend their sights on what they don't know.
> 
> I bought that Matheson 9400 for $35, if I remember it right.:icon_lol:
> It is rare, and a 1/4 NPT port version even rarer, for almost two years didn't touch it because just couldn't find anything suitable to go with it.
> 
> 
> teflon and enough torque
> 
> 
> Nice fitting, really cost but looks like you are going to build this system to serve your planted tank hobby for a lifetime.


Yeah, there a lot of other quality parts out there. I been eyeing the ASCO solenoid and Gem solenoids. There just so many out there, there also a CS solenoid at 2.4watts w/ LED. 
9400 for 35 dollars?, can't believe you found a better deal than the Parker H3 at 30 dollars. What is the top of the line dual stage regulator anyways? Is there anything that tops the 9400? 


Anyways, the SS fittings are expensive but I see them as an investment. You pretty much have them for life. People spend hundreds on shrimps, I call that expensive


----------



## Darkblade48

There were so many quality (and at the same time, cheap) parts that were available just a few years ago, before everyone started on the CO2 craze.

I have read stories of people picking up Ideal metering valves for 99 cents


----------



## Bettatail

Darkblade48 said:


> There were so many quality (and at the same time, cheap) parts that were available just a few years ago, before everyone started on the CO2 craze.
> 
> I have read stories of people picking up Ideal metering valves for 99 cents


 it is harder and harder to find low cost liquidated industrial parts, economy is getting better and price back to their normal range before 2007.
which is good for everyone, but cost more for hobbyists to build a high quality pressurized co2 system.

The cheapest I paid for the stainless steel ideal series 1 needle valve was about $25, just wanted it to satisfy my collection, there were just so many different models and brands out there in the same precision range or better, but all harder to find now.


----------



## FlyingHellFish

I did step 2 with a plug. It has pass the test after 12 hours. 










So all that is left is the post body kit, and then redoing step 2 to test for leaks? So the regulator itself is fine after completing step 1 and 2, right?


----------



## Bettatail

:thumbsup:
right


----------



## Mathman

This is my plan for a post body using an HPT 270C














Let me know what you think!


----------



## Bettatail

look expensive,:icon_smil

try Korlok, price will be lower.


----------



## Mathman

Do they have SS fittings as well?


----------



## FlyingHellFish

Mathman wasup! -

I got the 2.5 inch version, it was 14 bucks just for one. #SS-4-HLN-2-50
I'm not sure if the regulator is SS but wouldn't a 4 inch SS to a Brass female outlet be stressful? You got all the weight of the nipple/reducer/solenoid/nv all on those threads.



Also, do you guys usually add the post body without the working pressure gauge? I got both gauges on and don't want to go through the trouble of removing the LP again.


----------



## Mathman

What's up buddy...whether you have to remove the LP depends on your post body...if you have the space there's no need to. But, I believe usually we tend to install the LP after installing the post nody


----------



## Mathman

FlyingHellFish said:


> Mathman wasup! -
> 
> I got the 2.5 inch version, it was 14 bucks just for one. #SS-4-HLN-2-50
> I'm not sure if the regulator is SS but wouldn't a 4 inch SS to a Brass female outlet be stressful? You got all the weight of the nipple/reducer/solenoid/nv all on those threads.



For some reason I thought adding a 1/4" hex nipple and a 1/4"x1/8" reducer would help with all the weight.


----------



## FlyingHellFish

Lame.... I ain't touching those gauges ever again. I think got room though.


----------



## Darkblade48

FlyingHellFish said:


> Lame.... I ain't touching those gauges ever again. I think got room though.


I usually do not need to remove the low pressure gauge when installing the hardware downstream of the regulator.


----------



## FlyingHellFish

Mathman said:


> For some reason I thought adding a 1/4" hex nipple and a 1/4"x1/8" reducer would help with all the weight.


I have both those fittings and was thinking the same as you. Maybe someone with more experience on builds can clue us in. Would a bushing or a nipple be the best choice when weight is a concern?

Is your HPT regulator brass? I was thinking that a 1/4x1/8 bushing would be better since you have brass on brass then have the SS post body on the bushing. 

Darkb - You got a pic of your build? I want to see this down stream post body you speak of.


----------



## Darkblade48

FlyingHellFish said:


> Darkb - You got a pic of your build? I want to see this down stream post body you speak of.


http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=107312#11

It has changed a little though (now using a Parker metering valve instead of the Swagelok).

Sorry for the old (and poor lighting) photograph. Maybe I will take a new one someday.


----------



## Mathman

Changed the design per bettatails suggestion...let me know what you think.


----------



## Mathman

Bettatail said:


> :thumbsup:
> right


Step two of bettatails guide suggest to charge the working pressure at X amount say "100 psi". Then, one must turn the reg handle counter clockwise to loosen it. The final step is to detach the reg from the co2 tank to release any gas in the first stage. 

It is suggested to wait 5-10 minutes before taking note of the initial testing reading on the LPG. 

Now here's the question:

Just how much of a drop in the reading should the LPG indicate within those 10 minutes?

Say, it starts at 100 psi...what should be considered a "normal" drop after 10 mins?

Thanks.


----------



## Bettatail

about 1/4 is the most drop I have seen on some certain regulators(when loosen up the regulator handle), normally right after turning the regulator handle loose, the psi on LPG is stable, but I suggested wait 5-10 minutes to be sure, sometimes the spring or diaphragm is not immediately response when you turn lose the regulator handle.

most of the regulators, PSI on LPG don't drop at all when turning loose the regulator handle.


----------



## Mathman

Bettatail said:


> about 1/4 is the most drop I have seen on some certain regulators(when loosen up the regulator handle), normally right after turning the regulator handle loose, the psi on LPG is stable, but I suggested wait 5-10 minutes to be sure, sometimes the spring or diaphragm is not immediately response when you turn lose the regulator handle.
> 
> most of the regulators, PSI on LPG don't drop at all when turning loose the regulator handle.







































I did the "blow out" of the reg several times but the LPG still decreases more than 3/4 of the original reading.

I could say the reg is broken. Thanks for all the help betatail.

~cris


----------



## Darkblade48

Could be a leaky diaphragm causing the gas to leak back from the second stage to the first stage (after you remove the CGA320 connection from the cylinder).


----------



## Mathman

Darkblade48 said:


> Could be a leaky diaphragm causing the gas to leak back from the second stage to the first stage (after you remove the CGA320 connection from the cylinder).


It could be...

If the pressure remains the same without removing the cga then Theres really no leak...

If I have the regulator attached to the co2 gas cylinder and i have the cylinder fully opened, the HPg reads 800psi, the LPG a steady 40psi (set by me) and I do a soapy water test and there's no visible leak...shouldn't the reg be okay even though the gas leaks from the Second to first chamber only after disconnecting the cga? Which will ONLY happen when it's time to refill the tank?

Thanks!


----------



## Bettatail

Try this:

block the outlet and adjust the regulator handle to 40 psi(regulator handle at 40 psi, don't turn it back), 
800 psi at 1st stage and turn off the co2 tank.
let it stay overnight, see if 1st stage still at 800 psi and second stage at 40 psi.

even if the digits stay, it is better to get rid of the regulator because it is usable but not 100% functional, problem will emerge sooner or later.


----------



## D-Linquent

I thought I fixed my issue, but it turns out that I just didn't follow the testing directions. But I think I might have a similar problem with air leaking from second stage to the first. The first stage tested fine. I tested the second stage (properly this time), and it didn't hold pressure overnight. I blocked the outlet with a plug, and retested with similar results. I removed both gauges, and I reinstalled them with teflon tape and they're tighter than before. I retested with similar results. Then I replaced the safety valve with a plug and retested with similar results. In between each test, I searched for a leak with soapy water. I didn't find any leaks. 

I just charged the first stage, and set the second stage at 40 psi. So the HPG is showing 800 psi, and the LPG is at 40 psi, and I turned off the co2 tank. I will post my results.


----------



## Mathman

It could be an internal leak...the leak may be minimal such that a soapy water test may not detect it.


----------



## FlyingHellFish

Consider this, if you went from 50 psi down to 0 psi in 12 hours, is it really worth it to plug? 

Each time you test, you connect and disconnect and lose over 1000 psi. Most people will weight their tank and get a estimate of how much is left, before they refill. I know I do. So that small amount of liquid Co2 that is purged before a refill is more than that micro-leak. 

Just for the record, I tested twice with a plug and the post-body, it was only when my LP gauge was stable that I realize I lost a few 1000's psi.

Do you guys think this is faulty logic?


----------



## D-Linquent

It does look like it could be a leak from the second stage to the first. After 6 hours that pressure had not changed at all. 40 psi on the LPG and 800 psi on the HPG. After 15 hours I was down to 38 psi on the LPG, and the HPG lowered a fraction as well. 

What do you guys think? What did you do with your reg Mathman? Are you using it?


----------



## Bettatail

D-Linquent said:


> It does look like it could be a leak from the second stage to the first. After 6 hours that pressure had not changed at all. 40 psi on the LPG and 800 psi on the HPG. After 15 hours I was down to 38 psi on the LPG, and the HPG lowered a fraction as well.
> 
> What do you guys think? What did you do with your reg Mathman? Are you using it?


it is fine from 40 to 38 psi in 15 hours. if it is a slow leak on LP side, it is micro and insignificant, but what worry me it is the HPG lower, by how much?


----------



## D-Linquent

Bettatail said:


> it is fine from 40 to 38 psi in 15 hours. if it is a slow leak on LP side, it is micro and insignificant, but what worry me it is the HPG lower, by how much?


Almost imperceptible. It was such a small change, that I wondered if it actually changed, or if it was a function of me looking at it at a different angle. 

I reassembled everything, and I have had it running into the tank for a couple of hours. So far so good. It is holding its working pressure. We'll see how long the tank lasts.


----------



## Bettatail

D-Linquent said:


> Almost imperceptible. It was such a small change, that I wondered if it actually changed, or if it was a function of me looking at it at a different angle.
> 
> I reassembled everything, and I have had it running into the tank for a couple of hours. So far so good. It is holding its working pressure. We'll see how long the tank lasts.


sounds good, show a picture of your DIY once it is ready to serve, it is an inspiration for others who want to build their own.


----------



## D-Linquent

I will take a picture, but my unit looks pretty rough compared to the stuff I see on here. Ha! 

It worked all day yesterday though. I'm so excited. It's going to be weird not to have a project. I need to start planning what I'm going to do next.


----------



## drewsuf82

Awesome. Passed with flying colors


----------



## Dalban

Unless I've missed something, I believe there's an import test that's missing from the set of procedures outlined in the first post. Folks should run a stop test to validate that their regulator is actually regulating accurately. Otherwise, when their solenoid closes, pressure could build up on the LP side (and then they'll dump their cylinder via the relief valve). 

This procedure can most easily be added to step 3:

B1. Open solenoid valve.
B2. Check LP side is at desired level (e.g., 30 psi).
B3. Close solenoid valve.
B4. Wait 10-15 mins; check LP gauge hasn't increased more than 1-2 psi.

C. (carry on the rest of step 3).


----------



## Bettatail

Dalban said:


> Folks should run a stop test to validate that their regulator is actually regulating accurately. Otherwise, when their solenoid closes, pressure could build up on the LP side (and then they'll dump their cylinder via the relief valve).


I think I've already mention this problem in this or some other related threads, it is internal poppet valve leak, so the LP pressure slowly climb even the regulator at off position, and the build up pressure at the LP side will eventually damage something, push through the solenoid or the relieve valve if there is one.
perform a blow test, may or may not fix the problem.

If the problem persists after the blow test, it is broken, and such problem are commonly seen on commercially available regulators.

I will add this to the steps, thanks.


----------



## Sauril77

I am at work and unfortunately don't have time to read the entire thread. New too regulators and the frist page should have answered my question but I am slightly confused as again this is new to me. I bought a used regulator on Ebay and want to test it. I have nothing to connect to it yet. A co-worker of mine is a brewer and has a tank of CO2 that he is willing to test the regulator with but is not really familiar with the ins and outs of regulators either. His "just works". When we connect the regulator to the tank it constantly lets CO2 out the outlet side without it being capped. No matter if we tighten the regulator adjuster or not it keeps flowing. Is this normal? the regulator is an Airgas dual stage. Are we doing something wrong? Any tips would be apprecaited.


----------



## oldpunk78

Sounds like your regulator is garbage. (Blown diaphragm)


----------



## alpo430

hi. i have this regulator.
http://www.tzong-yang.com.tw/en/prod_detail.php?item_id=225

i did the soapy water test. no leak visible. 

when i first got my 1 liter ista tank. it reads 1000 psi. and the low pressure guage at 50psi. when the solenoid valve opens it goes down to 16-25psi. but after two weeks. the high pressure gauge is still at 1000psi but the low pressure gauge goes down to nearly zero. the bubble output is staggered. not the usual constant bubble count. it will release many bubbl at once then stop. then release again and stop.

what seem to cause this? i tried step one. after the solenoid closes the HP gauge stays at 1000 psi but the low pressure gauge goes up to 50 psi.

my problem is that when the solenoid open the pressure at LP gauge drops until nearly zero but the JP gauge is still 1000psi.


pls help


----------



## Bettatail

alpo430 said:


> hi. i have this regulator.
> http://www.tzong-yang.com.tw/en/prod_detail.php?item_id=225
> 
> i did the soapy water test. no leak visible.
> 
> when i first got my 1 liter ista tank. it reads 1000 psi. and the low pressure guage at 50psi. when the solenoid valve opens it goes down to 16-25psi. but after two weeks. the high pressure gauge is still at 1000psi but the low pressure gauge goes down to nearly zero. the bubble output is staggered. not the usual constant bubble count. it will release many bubbl at once then stop. then release again and stop.
> 
> what seem to cause this? i tried step one. after the solenoid closes the HP gauge stays at 1000 psi but the low pressure gauge goes up to 50 psi.
> 
> my problem is that when the solenoid open the pressure at LP gauge drops until nearly zero but the JP gauge is still 1000psi.
> 
> 
> pls help












this leak check is not going to work on your regulator.
anyway, the picture shows how your paintball regulator work. it is similar to a single stage pressure regulator, but without diaphragm, and yes, the spring would keep it at 50 psi output, but without a diaphragm, the friction on the piston will cause problem which is what you are experiencing at the moment.


----------



## Bettatail

picture 2, a second design for the similar regulator, same problem, without a diaphragm, friction on the piston cause trouble.


these two design regulators, the steady output pressure is not critical, they work well on paintball system which running on abrupt on/off cycle, but if you want a slow and steady output, the friction on the piston will play nasty.

add: in most cases, this type of regulators are ok, because the normal friction will affect the output pressure by unnoticeable digit, but if inside gets thirty, the whole mechanism operation inside become lazy, problems will emerge as what alpo430 experiencing at the monment


----------



## larams67

Dalban said:


> Unless I've missed something, I believe there's an import test that's missing from the set of procedures outlined in the first post. Folks should run a stop test to validate that their regulator is actually regulating accurately. Otherwise, when their solenoid closes, pressure could build up on the LP side (and then they'll dump their cylinder via the relief valve).
> 
> This procedure can most easily be added to step 3:
> 
> B1. Open solenoid valve.
> B2. Check LP side is at desired level (e.g., 30 psi).
> B3. Close solenoid valve.
> B4. Wait 10-15 mins; check LP gauge hasn't increased more than 1-2 psi.
> 
> C. (carry on the rest of step 3).


I noticed that when my solenoid turns off. The next day my LP gauge has gone up about 2psi. Should I be worried about this situation?


----------



## Bettatail

larams67 said:


> I noticed that when my solenoid turns off. The next day my LP gauge has gone up about 2psi. Should I be worried about this situation?


what regulator?


----------



## larams67

I have the Praxair Platinum 4323391-75-000. It's a dual stage SS regulator.


----------



## Bettatail

larams67 said:


> I have the Praxair Platinum 4323391-75-000. It's a dual stage SS regulator.


nice regulator you have there, it is a top CONCOA.

give it a simple leak check.

1. put the system on co2 tank, charge it with co2.
2. set the output pressure to 50 psi, then solenoid off, co2 tank valve close.
3. leave it for 6 hours, if nothing change, means no leak from the CGA320 connection to the solenoid(not cover the parts or the tubing after the solenoid).
4. the parts/tubing connections after the solenoid, use soapy water to check leak.

if no leak, one or two psi rise after solenoid power off, may be the problem of a lazy stainless steel diaphragm, should be ok if you set the output pressure high enough, about 40-50psi.


----------



## Mathman

Bettatail said:


> nice regulator you have there, it is a top CONCOA.
> 
> give it a simple leak check.
> 
> 1. put the system on co2 tank, charge it with co2.
> 2. set the output pressure to 50 psi, then solenoid off, co2 tank valve close.
> 3. leave it for 6 hours, if nothing change, means no leak from the CGA320 connection to the solenoid(not cover the parts or the tubing after the solenoid).
> 4. the parts/tubing connections after the solenoid, use soapy water to check leak.
> 
> if no leak, one or two psi rise after solenoid power off, may be the problem of a lazy stainless steel diaphragm, should be ok if you set the output pressure high enough, about 40-50psi.




So, could you test both chambers at the same time? I read your initial post awhile back and according to your guide, the two initial steps are to test the first and second chamber for leaks.


----------



## Bettatail

This is a simple test only to check leak from cga 320 to the solenoid, doesn't involve the function test on two stages.
If this simple test fail, have to perform the complete test to see where is the leak at exactly which stage.


----------



## Kensho

I just got my first C02 tank, when I conducted step one, the HP gauge barely hit 525. Nowhere close to 800. I guess it could be a not fully charged tank, or faulty gauge?.


----------



## ua hua

Kensho said:


> I just got my first C02 tank, when I conducted step one, the HP gauge barely hit 525. Nowhere close to 800. I guess it could be a not fully charged tank, or faulty gauge?.


Or you may have to wait until the tank reaches the same temp as the room it's in now and it should come up to around 800.


----------



## Bettatail

more than likely the problem is the gauge, hopefully it is calibrate issue.

and what is the temperature of the co2 tank? 
if the temperature is low(not the frosted freshly filled), the pressure is low too.

I remember last winter there was a member his room temp is about 60, the pressure is around 600 psi, but back up to 800 psi when the room temp rised to 75 for a couple days.


----------



## Kensho

It's about 61 degrees in the room I have it in, and holding steady at 600 psi.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## FlyingHellFish

^ We have very similar regulator, I wouldn't worry too much about that. The test leak is the most important. Remember, the gauge goes to 4000 psi, it's not meant to be super precise. 

The tube inside the gauge might be a bit bent, which is fine if it's an old gauge. And 61F is pretty cool, I get 800 around 71.


----------



## Kensho

Never got above 600psi.the room temp got to 69. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## RLee

:icon_lol:


Bettatail said:


> more than likely the problem is the gauge, hopefully it is calibrate issue.
> 
> and what is the temperature of the co2 tank?
> if the temperature is low(not the frosted freshly filled), the pressure is low too.
> 
> I remember last winter there was a member his room temp is about 60, the pressure is around 600 psi, but back up to 800 psi when the room temp rised to 75 for a couple days.


Please listen Betta tells it like it is no matter what. No bull pucky. I would of used another adjective but this forum does not allow it. :icon_lol:


----------



## Bettatail

RLee said:


> :icon_lol:
> Please listen Betta tells it like it is no matter what. No bull pucky. I would of used another adjective but this forum does not allow it. :icon_lol:


:icon_redf,:icon_redf


----------



## Kensho

Hit 750 at 75 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## flowerfishs

step 1. I only have around 680 psi to test. not sure that will be enough
after 6 hours. No psi drop at all











step 2. set the psi at 70
then screw off the CGA 320 off the tank. wait for 30 minutes before I record the psi. PSI still the same at 70. leave it on my desk over night for 8 hours. psi still at 70 psi. 











Just the test of the regulator. no post body.


----------



## Bettatail

flowerfishs said:


> step 1. I only have around 680 psi to test. not sure that will be enough
> after 6 hours. No psi drop at all
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> step 2. set the psi at 70
> then screw off the CGA 320 off the tank. wait for 30 minutes before I record the psi. PSI still the same at 70. leave it on my desk over night for 8 hours. psi still at 70 psi.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just the test of the regulator. no post body.


carry on.


----------



## Dzrtman

*Low pressure test question*

I just purchased from Aquariumplants.com the 2-stage regulator, with a mouse solenoid and Ideal needle valve, shown in the two attached photos. The high-pressure test conducted over 16 hours performed as described in the original post of this thread; in other words after closing the CO2 bottle valve, the HP gauge continued to show the starting pressure over a period of 16 hours.

However, the low-pressure test does NOT result in the pressure remaining in the LP gauge. Instead, when I turn the regulator control anticlockwise the LP pressure gauge returns to zero. Soap water on the various connections showed no visible leaks, so I concluded either the LP side of the regulator has an internal leak, or the solenoid...

Since this is a new unit I called Aquariumplants.com rather than attempting to removing the solenoid as suggested in the guide. The person I spoke to said the unit in the shop behaved in the same way. He said the way to perform the "bleed" test on this regulator, with the CO2 bottle valve closed, was to leave pressure in the HP regulator and leave the regulator valve open to maintain pressure in the LP regulator. In other words, it is not possible to isolate CO2 in the LP regulator.

I'm NEW to CO2, so I would appreciate an experienced member's thoughts on whether the information being provided by the person I spoke to at Aquarium plants could be correct for THIS regulator? Or could this be a misunderstanding on the part of the Aquariumplants employee and I need to ask to talk to someone more experienced?

Thank you,

Robin


----------



## AlanLe

Dzrtman said:


> I just purchased from Aquariumplants.com the 2-stage regulator, with a mouse solenoid and Ideal needle valve, shown in the two attached photos. The high-pressure test conducted over 16 hours performed as described in the original post of this thread; in other words after closing the CO2 bottle valve, the HP gauge continued to show the starting pressure over a period of 16 hours.
> 
> However, the low-pressure test does NOT result in the pressure remaining in the LP gauge. Instead, when I turn the regulator control anticlockwise the LP pressure gauge returns to zero. Soap water on the various connections showed no visible leaks, so I concluded either the LP side of the regulator has an internal leak, or the solenoid...
> 
> Since this is a new unit I called Aquariumplants.com rather than attempting to removing the solenoid as suggested in the guide. The person I spoke to said the unit in the shop behaved in the same way. He said the way to perform the "bleed" test on this regulator, with the CO2 bottle valve closed, was to leave pressure in the HP regulator and leave the regulator valve open to maintain pressure in the LP regulator. In other words, it is not possible to isolate CO2 in the LP regulator.
> 
> I'm NEW to CO2, so I would appreciate an experienced member's thoughts on whether the information being provided by the person I spoke to at Aquarium plants could be correct for THIS regulator? Or could this be a misunderstanding on the part of the Aquariumplants employee and I need to ask to talk to someone more experienced?
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Robin


Did you unplug the solenoid when testing the lp pressure gauge?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## oldpunk78

Also note that you have a single stage unit there. Not 2-stage.


----------



## Dzrtman

Thank you for responding AlanLe. The solenoid was not connected to power when I performed the test.


----------



## Dzrtman

oldpunk78 said:


> Also note that you have a single stage unit there. Not 2-stage.


Now I see how naive I am, thinking that 2 gauges indicated a 2-stage regulator. Thank you for pointing this out. So if there is only 1 stage, a 2nd stage/low-pressure test is not possible...

I never thought to ask Aquariumplants if this was a two-stage regulator


----------



## Dalban

Dzrtman said:


> Now I see how naive I am, thinking that 2 gauges indicated a 2-stage regulator. Thank you for pointing this out. So if there is only 1 stage, a 2nd stage/low-pressure test is not possible...
> 
> I never thought to ask Aquariumplants if this was a two-stage regulator


Actually, all of the test described in the first post of this thread applies equally to single-stage regulators -- except for the note at step 2 F. Contrary to the implication in the original post, these tests aren't really designed to test each stage so much as it is to determine whether there's a leak before air regulation or after. You want the same assurances for your single-stage regulator. 

Anyway, the advice you received from your vendor is not entirely bad... except it's missing a vital step. After you close the co2 tank valve, you'll want to partially close your regulator (one or two turns counter-clockwise). If you leave it for 10-15 minutes and the LP gauge reads lower (by more than 2-3 psi), then you have a leak on the LP side.


----------



## Dzrtman

Dalban said:


> Actually, all of the test described in the first post of this thread applies equally to single-stage regulators -- except for the note at step 2 F. Contrary to the implication in the original post, these tests aren't really designed to test each stage so much as it is to determine whether there's a leak before air regulation or after. You want the same assurances for your single-stage regulator.
> 
> Anyway, the advice you received from your vendor is not entirely bad... except it's missing a vital step. After you close the co2 tank valve, you'll want to partially close your regulator (one or two turns counter-clockwise). If you leave it for 10-15 minutes and the LP gauge reads lower (by more than 2-3 psi), then you have a leak on the LP side.


Thank you for the clarification. It's been a couple of days since I closed the valve on the CO2 tank. I left the regulator connected to the tank with the approx 800 psi reading on the HP gauge. I will repeat step 2E...

So before performing step 2E, I partially closed the regulator as you suggested. After performing step 2E I noticed the LP gauge went PAST it's maximum reading, almost to the zero position but on the right-hand side. I turned the regulator valve anticlockwise until the LP gauge registered 14.5 lbs psi. After 20 minutes the LP gauge is still reading 14.5 lbs.

So, a BIG THANK YOU, for explained the test was still valid for a single-stage regulator. And, I think your recommendation to turn the regulator anticlockwise several turns before performing step 2E is good advice. Versus step 2D which says to turn the regulator anticlockwise until there is no resistance; it was this step that set the LP gauge to zero, so when I performed step 2E there was no pressure left for the LP to "save".


----------



## VintonC

I think I may have just learned an expensive lesson. I bought a Matheson 3122 over a month ago and I just got everything together to leak test it. I jumped on it when the regulator thread was running and I took too long to get the CGA 320 nipple, tank and enough time to setup the test.

I'm a little unsure of the step 1 test. The regulator has a shutoff valve on the output. Should that be closed for step 1 testing? I closed it.

The LPG has at about 40 psi with the regulator handle turned all the way counter clockwise. About 20 minutes later I looked and the LPG is pegged. That means I have a nice paperweight, doesn't it?

update:
Should the regulator handle be turned tight counter-clockwise, like the tank shutoff or just loosely at the end of counter-clockwise travel?


----------



## Bettatail

VintonC said:


> I think I may have just learned an expensive lesson. I bought a Matheson 3122 over a month ago and I just got everything together to leak test it. I jumped on it when the regulator thread was running and I took too long to get the CGA 320 nipple, tank and enough time to setup the test.
> 
> I'm a little unsure of the step 1 test. The regulator has a shutoff valve on the output. Should that be closed for step 1 testing? I closed it.
> 
> The LPG has at about 40 psi with the regulator handle turned all the way counter clockwise. About 20 minutes later I looked and the LPG is pegged. That means I have a nice paperweight, doesn't it?
> 
> update:
> Should the regulator handle be turned tight counter-clockwise, like the tank shutoff or just loosely at the end of counter-clockwise travel?


poppet valve can not stop the flow of pressure co2, so second stage shot by high pressure.


for last question, some regulators have the stop nut in the handle, to prevent the handle from turning off the regulator, and the model you have is this design handle.
so counter clockwise all the way, the handle does gets tight, otherwise, the handle should be loosely and come off.

99% of the time, turn to the left(counter clockwise), once the handle is loose, it is at "shut off" position, not necessary to turn left(counter clockwise) all the way until it is tight(your regulator) or the handle come off the regulator.


----------



## VintonC

So should I just find another regulator on fleabay or does it make sense to try and rebuild it?


----------



## Bettatail

rebuild cost too much, find another one.


----------



## VintonC

I guess I'm having really bad luck. I bought an Concoa 315-311 two stage from the same seller on [Ebay Link Removed] He gave me a full refund for the original Matheson 3122 that was bad. 

When I tested step 1 on the Concoa 315 it held full pressure for a couple of days. Now I'm on step two and it charges to 100 psi fine but as soon as I close the regulator handle it drops pressure and continues to do so until it is 0 within a minute or two of fully closing the handle. I tried soap and water and couldn't find any leaks so I went ahead and removed and redid the connections for the Tee fitting the comes out of the low pressure port and holds the LPG and a second port for the low pressure output. I had a valve from the Matheson on there so to rule it out I installed a 1/4" NPT plug. Still same results. Any suggestions?


----------



## flowerfishs

you said you fully close the handle. do you mean fully release the handle? turning it counter clockwise. do you check the relief valve on the bottom?


----------



## VintonC

flowerfishs said:


> you said you fully close the handle. do you mean fully release the handle? turning it counter clockwise. do you check the relief valve on the bottom?


Yes, when I said closed I meant fully counter clockwise. I didn't check the relief valve. Isn't it only on the high pressure side? I have another 1/4" NPT plug I could replace it with.

I really want to build my own setup but spinning the ebay wheel to get a working regulator body stinks.


----------



## flowerfishs

the relief valve may leak. put a 1/4" plug there and test it again.


----------



## FlyingHellFish

If you guys find that your adjustment knob can be removed, you have have the "lock-nut" and it's a great design! You can adjust the adjustment knob,  

You can set a maximum pressure or a maximum low pressure, either way its great and I love them Matheson. 

A moment of silence for your Matheson 3120 series  

Note: Here is something that could happen but never will happen. 

The seller remove the lock nut and set it at a high value, 100 psi or so. Buyer goes to turn the handle so his LP gauge doesn't blow and think it's completely off. 

Good bye LP gauge... especially if it's 30 max or something. Fortunately that only ruin the LP gauge and not the regulator. 

Anyways, I was successful in a cloning process for my Praxair regulators, it required an exchange of fancy printed paper. 









=======


----------



## VintonC

I removed the pressure relief valve and replaced with a plug. Still no go. Then I replaced the LPG with one from the Matheson dud and still leaking. So in desperation I dunked the regulator handle and front half of the regulator in water and found the leak. It's between the front half of the regulator and the main body. I'll see if the seller will refund this one.


----------



## FlyingHellFish

So after you blow the LP gauge on the Matheson regulator, you dunk the replacement regulator in water to find the leak. 

You know there a chance that the leak was somewhere else and by dunking the regulator in water, you just created a bigger leak. Because you know, freezing Co2 gas and water isn't like combing chocolate and ice cream. 

If that sellers refunds you, you put "A++++ EBAY seller!!!! BEST EVER" on the feedback. 





VintonC said:


> I removed the pressure relief valve and replaced with a plug. Still no go. Then I replaced the LPG with one from the Matheson dud and still leaking. So in desperation I dunked the regulator handle and front half of the regulator in water and found the leak. It's between the front half of the regulator and the main body. I'll see if the seller will refund this one.


----------



## VintonC

FlyingHellFish said:


> So after you blow the LP gauge on the Matheson regulator, you dunk the replacement regulator in water to find the leak.
> 
> You know there a chance that the leak was somewhere else and by dunking the regulator in water, you just created a bigger leak. Because you know, freezing Co2 gas and water isn't like combing chocolate and ice cream.
> 
> If that sellers refunds you, you put "A++++ EBAY seller!!!! BEST EVER" on the feedback.


I didn't blow the LPG on the Matheson. That regulator leaked between the high pressure side and the low pressure side, pegging the LPG when the output was blocked with the shutoff valve. I had removed and resealed all the connections to low pressure side, including swapping LPG's in case the leak was in the gauge on the Concoa before dunking it. The only CO2 feeding it was what was trapped in stage 1 of the regulator which was just open enough to move the needle. Since Bettatail already said that rebuilding them is not worth it I just want to see where the leak really was.


----------

