# 1.5g Mr. Aqua Bookshelf– HC with no c02



## randym (Sep 20, 2015)

I have been researching this because I am starting a nano tank that will be low-tech, no CO2. I was hesitant to use the DSM, because supposedly the plants melt when you flood the tank. The solution to this is supposedly to crank the CO2 like crazy, at least for a little while. 

Tom Barr has this suggestion:

Hybrid methods, fusing dry start+ excel with non CO2 - Aquarium Plants - Barr Report

He says you can use Excel instead of CO2. He suggests using it just temporarily while the plants transition to the submersion, but you can also use it long-term if you wish. 

I also came across a thread (which I forgot to bookmark, darn it) where people, including Diana Walstead, were talking about how to successfully grow HC without CO2. They said it doesn't need a lot of light or CO2, but it can't compete with most other plants when it comes to absorbing CO2. So it will grow beautifully on its own or with other slow-growing plants in a low-tech tank, but if you put it in fast growing stem plants, it won't do well. 

I'll see if I can find that thread again. It had a list of plants HC is compatible with, and ones it isn't.


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## randym (Sep 20, 2015)

I think this might be the thread I was thinking of:

Dry Start Method & Shrimp Tanks - El Natural - Aquatic Plant Central

Among the plants that are okay with HC in a no-CO2 setup:

Marsilea quadrifolia
Eleocharis acicularis
Hemianthus micranthemoides

Diana suggests that other slow growers, like Anubias, will probably be fine, too.


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## Buu (Feb 15, 2015)

Not sure how it would do with the transition to submersion, but I've seen HC grown in small tanks (< 5 gallon) with just excel. 
Also, keep your light on the low side so you won't grow any algae.


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## bereninga (Mar 18, 2006)

Nice tank! I think that a DIY CO2 system wouldn't be a bad idea vs pressurized if you'd like to add CO2 w/o the huge investment.


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## megumz (Jul 15, 2015)

randym said:


> I have been researching this because I am starting a nano tank that will be low-tech, no CO2. I was hesitant to use the DSM, because supposedly the plants melt when you flood the tank. The solution to this is supposedly to crank the CO2 like crazy, at least for a little while.
> 
> Tom Barr has this suggestion:
> 
> ...


I looked at the forum, it was super helpful! One thing that always confuses me is excel... Theres Excel, Flourish, and Flourish Excel. Im assuming the one I would need is Flourish Excel right?



randym said:


> I think this might be the thread I was thinking of:
> 
> Dry Start Method & Shrimp Tanks - El Natural - Aquatic Plant Central
> 
> ...


I've read this before! Super helpful. Although she used potting soil and sand and im just using the fluval substrate with root tabs so not sure if it'll give me the same results.. Hopefully it will! Thanks for including the links  I'll probably be reading over them many times this weekend haha. 



Buu said:


> Not sure how it would do with the transition to submersion, but I've seen HC grown in small tanks (< 5 gallon) with just excel.
> Also, keep your light on the low side so you won't grow any algae.


Excel, or Flourish Excel? Im so confused.. I bought Flourish yesterday, thinking that it was the same as Flourish Excel...



bereninga said:


> Nice tank! I think that a DIY CO2 system wouldn't be a bad idea vs pressurized if you'd like to add CO2 w/o the huge investment.


Thank you! I would like to try this with no c02 at all and just use ferts... If its not successful ill probably just end up selling my plants


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## randym (Sep 20, 2015)

I think Excel is the same as Flourish Excel. They may have changed the name over the years. I think it used to be called Seachem Excel. Now it's Flourish Excel.


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## RyRob (May 30, 2015)

Flourish is just the name of Seachems product line, ie. Flourish Excel, Flourish Comprehensive, Flourish Iron, Flourish Trace and the list goes on. You want Excel for co2 supplement and Comprehensive for micro nutrients. 250ml bottles would last forever for your 1.5 gallon. Usually Flourish products run about 1ml/10gal so you would need about .15ml (or roughly 2.5 drops per gallon) of each product per dose. You may also want to look into macro nutrients (nitrogen, phosphorous, and potassium also known as NPK) which can be covered by other Flourish products. In the long run dry fertilizers will be way cheaper and last a lot longer than bottled products but for the size of your tank, small Seachem bottles should work rather well. Awesome start, DSM is looking great!


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## megumz (Jul 15, 2015)

Oh no.... I just noticed bluish/green algae on the sides of the tank... Should I flood?

Also, I just bought flourish comprehensive and flourish excel. Thanks for the tips!!


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## Kai808 (Jul 19, 2011)

megumz said:


> Oh no.... I just noticed bluish/green algae on the sides of the tank... Should I flood?
> 
> Also, I just bought flourish comprehensive and flourish excel. Thanks for the tips!!


I wouldn't flood it if it is blue/green algae (cyanobacteria), that would cause it to spead faster. Do you have a picture? If it is, I would remove most of it with a cue tip along with the substrate that it's on. Then spot treat it using a eye dropper and Hydrogen Peroxide. Multiple small drops and frequent doses are better than one big dose. IMO HC can be sensitive to Hydrogen Peroxide so try to keep it away from it. To be safe you can add more water to the tank and then syphon out the extra using an air hose. That should act like a water change. Finally I would use something on the outside of the tank to block light from getting to the substate. Maybe try a cardboard strip to cover the bottom portion of the tank to block out any additional light sources.

Try this only if it it blue green algae and maybe wait for other replies. This has worked for me in past but I can't guarantee it'll work for you. 

Oh btw, where did you get this tank? I saw this at moanalua pets and was thinking about getting one.

Good luck!


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## randym (Sep 20, 2015)

As I recall, Tom Barr says too much humidity is what causes BGA or mold while doing a dry start. Especially in a humid place like Hawaii, you may need to uncover your tank and let it dry out a little. 

There's this thread, which deals with BGA once is appears.

OH THE HORROR . DSM instant BGA - Aquarium Plants - Barr Report


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## megumz (Jul 15, 2015)

Kai808 said:


> I wouldn't flood it if it is blue/green algae (cyanobacteria), that would cause it to spead faster. Do you have a picture? If it is, I would remove most of it with a cue tip along with the substrate that it's on. Then spot treat it using a eye dropper and Hydrogen Peroxide. Multiple small drops and frequent doses are better than one big dose. IMO HC can be sensitive to Hydrogen Peroxide so try to keep it away from it. To be safe you can add more water to the tank and then syphon out the extra using an air hose. That should act like a water change. Finally I would use something on the outside of the tank to block light from getting to the substate. Maybe try a cardboard strip to cover the bottom portion of the tank to block out any additional light sources.
> 
> Try this only if it it blue green algae and maybe wait for other replies. This has worked for me in past but I can't guarantee it'll work for you.
> 
> ...


Thank you! Your 12g was definitely a big influence in me investing in this tank. Hopefully the pictures are good and you can tell what this stuff is.. I ordered my tank from Amazon as a kit with the light (which is really good) and the filter included for a little less than $100. At Pets Plus they have a 3g tank and 3g bookshelf kit (bigger version of what I have) for super expensive. I might get that one next! Are you on any of the Facebook groups? Aquarium Ohana, Hawaii Planted tanks, or AE? 




randym said:


> As I recall, Tom Barr says too much humidity is what causes BGA or mold while doing a dry start. Especially in a humid place like Hawaii, you may need to uncover your tank and let it dry out a little.
> 
> There's this thread, which deals with BGA once is appears.
> 
> OH THE HORROR . DSM instant BGA - Aquarium Plants - Barr Report


Thank you for your input and the link! I hope the pictures are sufficient. I used my macro lens for some. Hopefully this isn't BGA! Let me know what you think.


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## smug vic (Apr 3, 2015)

teach me to grow hc!


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## Kai808 (Jul 19, 2011)

megumz said:


> Thank you! Your 12g was definitely a big influence in me investing in this tank. Hopefully the pictures are good and you can tell what this stuff is.. I ordered my tank from Amazon as a kit with the light (which is really good) and the filter included for a little less than $100. At Pets Plus they have a 3g tank and 3g bookshelf kit (bigger version of what I have) for super expensive. I might get that one next! Are you on any of the Facebook groups? Aquarium Ohana, Hawaii Planted tanks, or AE?
> 
> 
> Thank you for your input and the link! I hope the pictures are sufficient. I used my macro lens for some. Hopefully this isn't BGA! Let me know what you think.


Mahalo for looking at my tank. It has become a grow out now because I'm tired of trimming the HC every 3 weeks. I'll probably start up another one next year. I'm not on any facebook groups but a co-worker of mine is on the AE. 

I'm not a 100% sure if that is BGA but it looks more like clado. You can treat it the same way with the peroxide or even spot treat it with the excel. It should turn white when it dies.

Aloha!


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

Any updates?


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## megumz (Jul 15, 2015)

Here are the updated pictures! I'm running this tank with no pressurized C02, and only using excel and flourish (sparingly). The light makes the plants look a lot more vibrant than they actually are... But so far, everything is still green! Let me know what you think, as well as any suggestions of ferts I should use. Thanks!!


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## megumz (Jul 15, 2015)

I forgot to add that the BGA is gone!!


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## garrettsr71awesome (Sep 23, 2014)

It takes a week or two for the plants to show signs of co2 deficiency. I'd be careful with the lighting hours if I were you


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## tippeecanoe (Apr 6, 2012)

So far, so good. Keep up the good work. TC


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## megumz (Jul 15, 2015)

I've had this tank flooded for I think 2 months now. If the plants weren't doing well, id be able to tell by now right?

Thank you TC!


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