# Using AI Sol Blue



## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

tweetyfish said:


> Good morning everyone,
> I have been very busy getting equipment together for my existing 180 (72x24x24) to be setup as a planted/community. I will be going with a high tech set up. I believe I have most of the equipment ready to go except lighting.
> I currently have four (4) AI Sol Blue fixtures in a canopy over this tank. From everything I have read it sounds like a crap shoot weather this will work for a high light planted setup. I would like to keep the lights but if it would be better to go a different route with the lighting I could sell the existing lights and use that money to get something better suited for plants.
> I do like the controllability of the led's and the dusk to dawn effect.
> ...


The lights will grow plants fine.. it is more a question of "taste". The visual color palette for plants is certainly not optimal.











> 16 - Cree XP-G2 Cool White (> 70 CRI)
> 
> 4 - OSRAM OSLON Deep Red
> 4 - Cree XP-E2 Green
> ...


W/ the dimming control (depending on channel layout) you can improve it's visual appeal but at the cost of reduced PAR....

Not sure of the "used market value" but one "option" would be to "mod" the pucks.. You could attempt a DIY (go to ref central and pose the question, you will probably get advice and probalbly an "offer" to purchase.. ) 
or contact AI-sol and see if they will modify them..

From the cost of upgrading Gen1 to 2 this doesn't seem to be a viable financial position but maybe.

Note: many assumptions here on what you have..

Check this out:
http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/3023...-sol-blue-to-use-neutral-white-leds-and-more/

YOU may want to reconsider DIY..


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## tweetyfish (May 12, 2014)

Right now I have control of white, blue and royal blue separately. The link you provided gives a good picture of what the cool, neutral and warm white led's would look like. Being that I have a cool white on each puck I can shutdown the blue and royal blue if necessary and add some supplemental warmer lighting as well to make the coloring more natural? Not sure what par value is desired at a 24" depth? Still have a lot more reading to get done.
Seem like a good DIY mod to the existing Sol Blue would be a good option. Do you have any recommendations on what leds to replace with on each puck? If I am correct there is 8.75w available to each puck.


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## tweetyfish (May 12, 2014)

After all is said and done with the lighting the best option for the plants and energy efficiency is my goal. Don't mind a DYI if that's the direction I need to go. Just need some help. Thanks


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## Steve001 (Feb 26, 2011)

More red light. There's plenty of info here and the web what wavelengths of blue and red light are necessary for plant growth. Other wavelengths of light also help and improve the visual appeal and brightness.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

tweetyfish said:


> Right now I have control of white, blue and royal blue separately. The link you provided gives a good picture of what the cool, neutral and warm white led's would look like. Being that I have a cool white on each puck I can shutdown the blue and royal blue if necessary and add some supplemental warmer lighting as well to make the coloring more natural? Not sure what par value is desired at a 24" depth? Still have a lot more reading to get done.
> Seem like a good DIY mod to the existing Sol Blue would be a good option. Do you have any recommendations on what leds to replace with on each puck? If I am correct there is 8.75w available to each puck.


I'd need a better idea of each of your channels..
Spitballing though w/ the above configuration:

Cut down the RB, and blue considerably. Cut down or eliminate UV (arguably unnecessary) Violets.. well you could leave them.

Then you need to add some warmer whites (3500K or so)

I'd prefer cyan over green but best to keep your work load(and cost) down..

My preferred configuration based on 2 channels is blue/cw on one red/ww on another. putting greens ect on both channels

Having more than 2 channels ideally the standard RGB concept works well

1)Reds/ww on 2) green/cyan/(poss violet, uncharted territory for me here though) 3)blues/cool white

Ideally ideally is a channel to each color..

Only important thing is to keep the ww/cw ratio down..
You want to max output at a color you like..and in general this would be something like 2:1 cw/ww That group alone should push the CCT to 5000K.. a "pleasant" color temp.. 

RGB colors of course make white as does RB/Cyan/Deep red
so visually the light remains neutral..

BUT you have "cool white" LED's and knowing exactly what that "means" would be helpful

Color temps are fairly additive..though of course lumen output differences would skew this a little.
In other words 2 LED's one w/ @10000K and 1 @ 5000k would have a CCT of 15000/2 or 7500K.. all other things being equal.. 

From Cree specs.. "cool white" is defined as:


> 5000 K - 8300 K CCT


Nice big range huh..


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

After all my babbling above I thought I'd better "reframe" here:

Clarify this for me.. you have 4 pucks 3-3W LED's per puck??
Is each blue/rb/white??

Only 36W over 180gal tank?

you don't have to change but you do have to add... if this is the case..

Each has this:








http://shop.aquaillumination.com/products/ai-sol-sol-blue-led-puck



> AI Sol Blue LED Puck
> 
> 1x Cree XP-G Cool White
> 1x Cree XP-E Royal Blue
> 1x Cree XP-E Blue


Is each in a seperate but connected housing?





> The Sol comes equipped with either 8 "Blue" or "White" LED puck assemblies. We use only the best LEDs on the market, the CREE XP series of LED. The Sol Blue puck has 1 blue, 1 royal blue, and 1 cool white LED. The Sol White puck has 2 cool white, and 1 royal blue LED.
> Replacement pucks of either Sol White or Blue are available from us for $25 per puck. Please call customer service at 515-233-5105 to order.
> 
> 
> ...


Grrrr........... 

considering they are daisy chained which would create a variable voltage array.. they must use a constant current type "driver".. which will "poosibly" allow you to "hack in" to the power ciruit and enable you to add 3 "custom" pucks to each of the 3 channels...maybe.. 

I'd need any info on the power suppy.. but I'm guessing it is rated 24V out.. IF so you can add at least 3 3W led's in series to each channel..
any literature/info on "puck limits" per channel?

ERR.. maybe not.. seems they have seperate drivers "on board"











Sorry now leaning to "dump the works".. and start over.........


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## tweetyfish (May 12, 2014)

Yea, I see what you mean. I believe the "cool whites" are 6500k or 6700k. According to AI. Not sure if this rating is because of the driver being used and at what voltage or a certain Cree emitter.


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## tweetyfish (May 12, 2014)

Each fixture has eight (8) pucks. Each puck has emitters you have listed. I have a total of four (4) fixtures. Total of 32 pucks.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

tweetyfish said:


> Each fixture has eight (8) pucks. Each puck has emitters you have listed. I have a total of four (4) fixtures. Total of 32 pucks.


Ooh.. MUCH better.....  but a heck of a lot of work..

Simplest thing to do is remove all (or at least 1/2 of the blue) and add warm white..

As a side note.. leaning to 36V switching power supplies..

You only have 3 controllable channels correct..???

Anyways.. a better suggestion is to remove all blue and add ww/deep red.. "hopefully" the different V(f)'s are not a problem.. but I'll get back on that one..
Need to understand their circuitry a bit more..


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## tweetyfish (May 12, 2014)

Correct, three channels. 0-100 on each channel


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## tweetyfish (May 12, 2014)

Not sure on the power supplies. I will check this evening.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

tweetyfish said:


> Not sure on the power supplies. I will check this evening.



Doesn't really matter if just substituting LED's..


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

You want a spectra that's basically opposite of the figure you listed, mostly Red/yellow and a blue spike to keep the CRI acceptable to the eyes. 

Basically in FL bulbs; 5-6 reds and maybe 2 blues and maybe 1-2 whites.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

If I recall correctly, when only running white with this fixture, it's actually a fairly yellow white. It would make sense if they are 6,500k or so, rather than the 10,000k one would expect. Another thing about these lights is they put out some crazy par. My friend was recommend 2 on his 90, went with 3 and has to dim them quite a bit. That's a reef so loosing 2 channels may actually be a good thing. 

I believe AI will rebuild these for you, who knows what the cost is on that but I think that is the whole marketing behind the modular system. What I have no idea is if they build them to any sort of custom specs, or if they only rebuild them to other lights. There are better options like the White and the Vega may be better as well. You still may have to do some experimenting. I think if they will rebuild them, and are reasonable, these could work.

I would recommend gaining access to a PAR meter though, maybe even before considering changing them. Again, I thought these lights were known for insane part levels so if you have to dim them like crazy, it may be worth selling them for something more suited for what we do. For example, the controller works really well but who knows if the countability would be as nice going from 0-40% as 0-10% if you have to go that low. 

I may be over estimating par levels, especially if you are really only using 33% of the output by just using the white, or mostly the white. That's probably where you want to start seeing how well these may work for you.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

talontsiawd said:


> I believe AI will rebuild these for you, who knows what the cost is on that but I think that is the whole marketing behind the modular system. What I have no idea is if they build them to any sort of custom specs, or if they only rebuild them to other lights.


They will upgrade from SoI to SolII I believe the quote was $250/fixture.. :icon_eek::icon_eek: and see above (AND below) quote direct from AI: 


> At this time we are not making custom LED configurations however, if you have any ideas on color options feel free to let us know as we may in the future.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

jeffkrol said:


> They will upgrade from SoI to SolII I believe the quote was $250/fixture.. :icon_eek::icon_eek: and see above (AND below) quote direct from AI:


Oh, somehow I missed that. I can understand them not doing custom but that is extremely pricey for the rebuild. I didn't think it would be cheap but that's more than half the price of the fixture. Cheaper than buying another but they tend to move quickly with new products so you may pay more over time if you want the latest and greatest. 

I still love AI's lights and though I never plan on having a reef, I still appreciate the quality of the things.


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## tweetyfish (May 12, 2014)

The Sol's I have are the second generation. I believe you can ungrade to the Vega pucks. I may be wrong. Need to give them a call.


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

You can go from Sol to Vega with the upgrade kit. Then you can go with the custom Vega pucks.

http://reefbuilders.com/2013/03/06/ai-upgrade-kit-sol-vega-led-preorder-shipping-month/


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

tweetyfish said:


> The Sol's I have are the second generation. I believe you can ungrade to the Vega pucks. I may be wrong. Need to give them a call.


Still not a "good' spectrum but better.. Unfortunately it is very costly..
Vega Color LED population: 


> (4) Cree XM-L Cool White
> (6) Cree XP-E Royal Blue
> (4) Cree XP-E Blue
> (4) OSRAM OSLON Deep Blue
> ...


$175 per "unit" x 4 and may have to "upgrade" power supplies..

After which you would probably have to dim and adjust soooo much that it would be like running one or 2...........










Companies like AI have no clue as to freshwater.. and why should they.. it doesn't butter their bread.. 










It would be considerably cheaper to have circuit boards custom made and repopulate the 3 ups w/ your own LED's . 

I can think of a few "DIY" ways already.. 

Use one as a template and cut out Al "pucks.. drill a few holes . the plugs are generic and the only catch would be to position them right.. using slotted screw holes and it is easily "tweaked" to mate w/ the board which you make sufficiently undersized to tweak in the fitting....

Thermal epoxy a few 3W Leds.. hard wire the channels to the plug done.. This stuff is not rocket science..


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## tweetyfish (May 12, 2014)

They also offer deep red, green, warm white and natural white. I have sent them an email asking if they can offer these with the kit. They offer them with the power puck upgrade for the Vega.


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## tweetyfish (May 12, 2014)

Take a look at their site. I believe they have violet and uv


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## tweetyfish (May 12, 2014)

I probably would only need three Vega kit since they say the Vega is good for a 2'x2' spread.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

tweetyfish said:


> They also offer deep red, green, warm white and natural white. I have sent them an email asking if they can offer these with the kit. They offer them with the power puck upgrade for the Vega.


So they softened their "no substitution" stance.. I'll be awaiting their response.. 

There is this @ $299 each.......... 
http://shop.aquaillumination.com/collections/sol/products/hydra-fiftytwo-upgrade-kit-sol-heatsink

going full circle back to this:


> 16 - Cree XP-G2 Cool White (> 70 CRI)
> 
> 4 - OSRAM OSLON Deep Red
> 4 - Cree XP-E2 Green
> ...


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## tweetyfish (May 12, 2014)

I'll be sure to keep you posted.


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## tweetyfish (May 12, 2014)

Here is the response from AI about the Sol to Vega.

THank you for the information. Unfortunately, the upgrade kits from Sol to Vega have been discontinued, as well as the Vega themselves. We are focusing on the Hydra series at this time and the latest technology from AI. 

Many customers have been using the Hydra series over their planted tanks however and from what we have heard, are doing quite well. The Hydra upgrade kits are even lower in cost than that of the Vega upgrades and can be purchased from the following link: http://shop.aquaillumination.com/collections/sol/products/sol-to-hydra-upgrade-kit

I have responded to see if they will let me chose the emitters for the upgrade pucks.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

tweetyfish said:


> Here is the response from AI about the Sol to Vega.
> 
> THank you for the information. Unfortunately, the upgrade kits from Sol to Vega have been discontinued, as well as the Vega themselves. We are focusing on the Hydra series at this time and the latest technology from AI.
> 
> ...


Idea.. IF they can't do that (I'm pretty sure they won't) ask to see if they are willing to sell blank 3up boards. W luck they may have some laying around. Long shot...


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## tweetyfish (May 12, 2014)

Good idea! Lets see what they say.


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## tweetyfish (May 12, 2014)

Personally, I don't think the upgrade kit is that bad of a price considering that you get everything new except the heat sink and the fan. I would think they would let me pick the emitters since they offer that option as an upgrade anyway.


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

tweetyfish said:


> Here is the response from AI about the Sol to Vega.
> 
> THank you for the information. Unfortunately, the upgrade kits from Sol to Vega have been discontinued, as well as the Vega themselves. We are focusing on the Hydra series at this time and the latest technology from AI.
> 
> ...


If they let you pick your own custom pucks then that's not bad. You will have to buy a Director though since it's required.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

gus6464 said:


> You will have to buy a Director though since it's required.


:eek5::eek5::eek5::eek5:


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## tweetyfish (May 12, 2014)

I ask about custom pucks and this was the response from AI.

No problem at all. The LEDs for the Hydras are stock unfortunately and are not customizable. These include 

Cool White
Royal Blue 
Deep Blue
Deep Red
Green 
UV 
Violet

Kind Regards 
AI Team


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

tweetyfish said:


> I ask about custom pucks and this was the response from AI.
> 
> No problem at all. The LEDs for the Hydras are stock unfortunately and are not customizable. These include
> 
> ...



so your looking a $700 to add 32 LEDs plus $100 for the new controller. And power supply?? 

Hmm by sticking w/ what you got and mixing in a BML Fish focus red (or even custom) for $465 plus $100 for controller you get 64 LED's added to the orig. 48...

Problem w/ strictly upgrading to the Hydro is you still only have white to blue tank.

From the plant perspective they could care less (plenty of PAR in that configuration) but MORE red is more efficient.
Deep blue,certainly green, and UV are less efficient plant wise that 660nm red and RB) but do add visual appeal..
More red is also more flexible in terms of aesthetics..

Obviously mixing fixtures has it's own problems..

Then again my head is kicking around "bootleg" boards.. Nothing in the orig config "probably" has a high resale value as parts.. though the driver board, since they have "discontinued" and may not have spares is probably something worth holding on to...

48 all new quality LED's would run in the area of $144...... plus boards,plugs and time..


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

I have read about someone reflowing the stock LEDs on AI pucks himself. I will try to find it.

Ed: Here it is. Looks quite simple actually.
http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/3023...-sol-blue-to-use-neutral-white-leds-and-more/


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## tweetyfish (May 12, 2014)

gus6464 said:


> I have read about someone reflowing the stock LEDs on AI pucks himself. I will try to find it.
> 
> Ed: Here it is. Looks quite simple actually.
> http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/3023...-sol-blue-to-use-neutral-white-leds-and-more/


 Yea, I took a look at that mod and doesn't seem to difficult. I'm trying to wrap my head around weather or not to keep this setup or to sell them and set up a diy.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

tweetyfish said:


> Yea, I took a look at that mod and doesn't seem to difficult. I'm trying to wrap my head around weather or not to keep this setup or to sell them and set up a diy.



the 8 puck units are selling (actual sales) on fleabay for $250-$300 each for used. Just an FYI.. as w/ anything "retail" it only has a value when someone wants to buy it......


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## tweetyfish (May 12, 2014)

doesn't sound like a deal to me. LOL


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## tweetyfish (May 12, 2014)

DIY for my canopy? Any suggestions?


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

tweetyfish said:


> DIY for my canopy? Any suggestions?


Sure.. lots.. 

I'm still thinking about "bootleg" pucks though.. Pretty sure it is easy and cost effective..

DIY is quite "personal" though..


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2010592

you might want to browse that thread.. There are a few things in it I'm not exactly sure about and you may be able to make it out a bit more..


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## tweetyfish (May 12, 2014)

I decided I didn't want to take the time to mod my AI sol's so I sold them. Now I need to decide what route to go with some new lighting. I will be using black substrate and lots of driftwood. Community tank mates and plants. I do have co2 and controller left over from reef tank but not sure if I will use this right away. Wife want Discus. Could go that route later.
LEDs or T5's? Help me choose, please.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

tweetyfish said:


> I decided I didn't want to take the time to mod my AI sol's so I sold them. Now I need to decide what route to go with some new lighting. I will be using black substrate and lots of driftwood. Community tank mates and plants. I do have co2 and controller left over from reef tank but not sure if I will use this right away. Wife want Discus. Could go that route later.
> LEDs or T5's? Help me choose, please.


T5 pros:
Fairly cheap
"may" color out red plants a bit better. Those dependent on UV (my own theory)
A bit more bounce in light distribution.

Cons:
Fairly boring.. difficult sunset sunrise dimming possibilities
slightly more energy inefficient than LED
Ballasts
more heat
Color changing involves replacing bulbs
Flat lighting

(some cons/pros are user dependent)


LED pros
Multiple colors w/ channel dimming
multiple targeted colors for plants/ and/or viewing
ease of "programming" for sunsets sunrise/dimming/color effects
dynamic water effects (shimmer)

cons
possible color banding
point source shading
pricing
over choice

I didn't include "depth penetration" because I think that is LED "design" dependent and not a "global" factor. Nor plant growth..

Congrats on selling the AI.. It WAS a bit of a project.....

Discus:
http://forum.buildmyled.com/index.php?threads/new-5000k-planted-tank-spectrum.225/


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## tweetyfish (May 12, 2014)

jeffkrol,
Are you using the 5000k setup from BML?


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

tweetyfish said:


> jeffkrol,
> Are you using the 5000k setup from BML?


no I build my own... 
One of my early strings was based on the same principal though..
And most revolve around the "concept"... 

Main reason is 1)I'm inherently cheap and 2)I like control.. one channel is never enough. 

I love their concepts and product build. 

Some nit picky execution points rhat I don't like and PERSONALLY apply to me.. 0-10V dimming. I abandoned that concept awhile ago..

for ideas though, see this thread:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=667858&highlight=


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

Jeff,

I find it funny how people complain about depth penetration of LED's and then they are using a puny 3W emitter trying to penetrate 3+ft. There is a guy on RC that just installed a recessed LED system in his ceiling and is growing SPS. The light is a good 6ft from his tank and he is pushing some serious PAR.


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## O2surplus (Jan 31, 2010)

72" x 24" x 24"? That's nothing 4 -6 BridgeLux Vero 5600K 18's couldn't light easily. Food for thought-BXRC-56G4000-F-04 Bridgelux | 976-1198-ND | DigiKey 

6 Vero 18's with a wiring harness < $20 each = $120
6 LDD-1000H drivers @ $7.50 each = $45
1 Coralux 6up LDD-H PcB = $13.50
1 Meanwell 48V power supply = $50
1 Heat sink(s) of your choice = $??
1 Led controller of your choice = $??

A DIY build using these ingredients will blow away any commercially built fixture for less $$$.


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## tweetyfish (May 12, 2014)

I can do that. just need to get this going. Makers heat sink huh?


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## tweetyfish (May 12, 2014)

Got 600 big one's to invest. Lets spend some cash and come up with a great build.


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

Do you have a canopy? If you do then Bridgelux is a no brainer.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

tweetyfish said:


> I can do that. just need to get this going. Makers heat sink huh?


Screw the Makers.. Bring on the carbon fiber and heatpipes... 
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2407970

http://reefll.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=65_69&product_id=69









and lets get the russians to build a DECENT Freshwater multichip.... 

no fans.......... 

http://reefll.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_61&product_id=117


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## tweetyfish (May 12, 2014)

I do have a canopy. That heat sink looks a lot like a cpu heat sink. I like the Idea of no fans on the fixture. I do have a fan on each end of the canopy. Thanks for the links. I can handle the electrical just never have built a fixture. Also still trying to get a handle on what kind/color and how many emitters I will need for my tank. Lots of questions and still have a lot of research to do. Thanks for the help.


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

You can do a large heatsink from heatsink USA and then use 120mm case fans. You can get ones that are <20dBa which will be inaudible once you have your pumps running.


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