# Plants fert uptake & deficiency



## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

Hey all, I have been having issues with my plants up taking the ferts that I am dosing. I have been changing the amount I have been dosing every two weeks to see if I get any changes with the plant health, for the EI calculation I have been using Rotala butterfly. Initially I was dosing what was recommended for my 90L tank, but since I have been dosing 25% of that due to the nitrate + phosphate becoming very high by the end of the week (40/80ppm nitrate, 10+ phosphate). The problem is even at 25% EI dosage my nitrates are at 40ppm, and phosphate is still around 10ppm. I am unsure if this is a test kit issue, or my plants not up taking the nutrients that fast?

Quite a few of my plants grow slowly or with signs of a deficiency, my Staurogyne repens has been getting holes within the leaves + yellowing. A few of my newer leaves on my Rotala Rotundifolia grow very small until they are closer to the surface, where the leaves look lush and sizes correctly. Any comments on these issues would be great! I will put my water parameters just before my WC below, along with my dosing regimen and a picture of the Staurogyne repens leaves. Thanks again!


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## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

When was the last time you did a thorough filter cleaning and cleaned up the substrate? Also, do you tend to overfeed a bit? These are the two cases where I've seen my nitrates and phosphates creep regardless of what I do.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## dukydaf (Dec 27, 2004)

Hi,
I assume for your previous posts that the 50% weekly water change continues. Did you test your tap water ? Does it have any PO4 or NO3 in it?

I would look into what natemcnutty said. Plus do a 90% water change and begin normal dosing and see at the end of the week where you are. IF too high , do another 90% water change and stop dosing N and P. It may be possible you get enough from the soil or fish food. Or you may wish to look into overfeeding /overstocking. 

I know you had troubles with your CO2 some time ago. What you describe about the Rotala leaves struggling until reaching the surface may be an issue about CO2 distribution. I have this in one of my tanks where the levels of CO2 are high with pH probe and dropchecker in different corners of the aquarium. Yet, because of the filter configuration, I get one corner which receives little water from the filter with the CO2 reactor. That is the only place where Rotala have small leaves. Move 2 cm to the right and you get nicely colored Rotalas. I will try and take photos if today if time allows (doubtful).

Regards, 
duky


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

natemcnutty said:


> When was the last time you did a thorough filter cleaning and cleaned up the substrate? Also, do you tend to overfeed a bit? These are the two cases where I've seen my nitrates and phosphates creep regardless of what I do.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


I have two 206 filters, one for the spray bar, which the CO2 is injected into, and another filter, which the inline heater is on. I cleaned one yesterday actually, and replaced the Purigen. I will clean the other filter next WC though for sure. I left it about 2 months, most likely too long? 

I don't feel like I overfeed, a small pinch for my tetras, and powder foods for the shrimps when needed.



dukydaf said:


> Hi,
> I assume for your previous posts that the 50% weekly water change continues. Did you test your tap water ? Does it have any PO4 or NO3 in it?
> 
> I would look into what natemcnutty said. Plus do a 90% water change and begin normal dosing and see at the end of the week where you are. IF too high , do another 90% water change and stop dosing N and P. It may be possible you get enough from the soil or fish food. Or you may wish to look into overfeeding /overstocking.
> ...


 Yup still doing weekly 50% WC's. I have just tested my tap water, here are the results:

Nitrate: 0/0.5
Phosphate: 0.25









Next week I will do a 90% WC, it very well could be the Aqua soil. Yeah I did, I tried to combat that with more flow, and I introduced another filter for the job. I was using a power head previously, but it was too strong. The drop checker used to be located on the lower left of the glass, but I moved it to the lower back to see the CO2 levels there. The CO2 was taking longer to turn the drop checker green, so I repositioned the spray bar and it seems to have done the trick. Although the growth still doesn’t look great on some of the plants sadly. If my tank is having the same issue as yours was, then my whole back portion of the tank is suffering from CO2 distribution, even though the drop checker is lime green? Still learning here :wink2:

I will try to get a video of the flow in my tank if that helps.


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## klibs (May 1, 2014)

i agree with the huge 'reset' water change approach. i usually do this when stuff gets weird and it works most of the time

Bump: i agree with the huge 'reset' water change approach. i usually do this when stuff gets weird and it works most of the time


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

klibs said:


> i agree with the huge 'reset' water change approach. i usually do this when stuff gets weird and it works most of the time
> 
> Bump: i agree with the huge 'reset' water change approach. i usually do this when stuff gets weird and it works most of the time


 Thanks for the reply. I think this is the approach I will take with this then and just monitor the parameters after. Will report back


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

I done a huge WC with the cleaning of my second filter. I am still going to dose the same amount as stated above to see if this reset has helped bring down the nitrates/ phosphate by the end of the week. My Hygrophila corymbosa seems to be also showing deficiency signs with pin holes in the leaves, the Staurogyne repens also is still showing the same poor health. I have attached images of both plants if anyone has any suggestions. Thank you.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi Ninja_green,

I reviewed all of your pictures then I took your last picture and blew it up and this is what I saw: in your first post the new leaf has hooking at the leaf tip; in the last picture the white specks on the older leaves followed by necrosis; in the last picture the edges of the leaf margins seem to be curling downward along length of the leaves. Try adding some Seachem Equilibrium to your tank, it contains calcium, potassium, magnesium, and a little iron and manganese. I would start with 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons; when you do a water change at 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons of fresh water added. For the next two weeks watch your new growth (the existing leaves will change little if any at all) and see if the new leaves as they emerge look healthier, better formed, and possibly larger.....if so you are on the correct path.

Can you see the symptoms I described?











> Symptoms appearing first or most severely on new growth (root and stem tips, new leaves)
> 
> 2. Necrosis occurs at tip and margin of leaves causing a definite hook at leaf tip.
> Calcium is essential for the growth of shoot and root tips (meristems). Growing point dies. Margins of young leaves are scalloped and abnormally green and, due to inhibition of cell wall formation, the leaf tips may be "gelatinous" and stuck together inhibiting leaf unfolding. Stem structure is weak and peduncle collapse or shoot topple may occur. Roots are stunted. Downward curl of leaf tips (hooking) occurs near terminal bud. ammonium or magnesium excess may induce a calcium deficiency in plants... *calcium deficiency*
> ...





> Necrotic spots develop on older leaves
> 
> a. Margins of older leaves become chlorotic and then burn, or small chlorotic spots progressing to necrosis appear scattered on old leaf blades. Calcium excess impedes uptake of potassium cations.... *potassium deficiency*
> 
> Potassium deficiency symptoms first appear on the recently matured leaves of the plant (not on the young, immature leaves at the growing point). In some plants, the first sign of potassium deficiency is a white specking or freckling of the leaf blades. With time, the symptoms become more pronounced on the older leaves , and they become mottled or yellowish between the veins and scorched at the margins. These progress inward until the entire leaf blade is scorched. If sodium cations are present and taken up in place of K+1, leaf flecking (necrotic spots scattered on leaf surface) and reduced growth occur. Potassium is phloem retranslocated from old leaves to new growth.





> Symptoms do not appear first or most severely on youngest leaves: Effect general on whole plant or localized on older, lower leaves.
> 
> C. Interveinal chlorosis. Interveinal chlorosis first appears on oldest leaves.
> 
> ...


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Hi Ninja_green,
> 
> I reviewed all of your pictures then I took your last picture and blew it up and this is what I saw: in your first post the new leaf has hooking at the leaf tip; in the last picture the white specks on the older leaves followed by necrosis; in the last picture the edges of the leaf margins seem to be curling downward along length of the leaves. Try adding some Seachem Equilibrium to your tank, it contains calcium, potassium, magnesium, and a little iron and manganese. I would start with 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons; when you do a water change at 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons of fresh water added. For the next two weeks watch your new growth (the existing leaves will change little if any at all) and see if the new leaves as they emerge look healthier, better formed, and possibly larger.....if so you are on the correct path.
> 
> Can you see the symptoms I described?


 Thank you for the detailed response! I do definitely see all of the symptoms that you are describing. The leaf margins definitely seem like they curl slightly at the edges as you said, the leaf hooking is probably the most prominent, and the white flecking then turning into large holes, which from your quotes was described as burn on the plant leaves (this also is what is causing the Hygrophila corymbosa to have burn holes in its leaf).

The alarming thing is I have actually been dosing Equilibrium at the one teaspoon per 10 Gallons already, but as your quotes in your post also said that "magnesium excess may induce a calcium deficiency in plants... *calcium deficiency*" so could this be that I am dosing too much magnesium? Could this be causing my dosing of the Equilibrium not to have much effect on the plants uptake of the Mg, Ca?

Quite a lot of information to take in, so sorry if I am misunderstanding what the quotes were saying, thanks again


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi Ninja_green,

The Leaf Tip Hooking on your new growth looks to be less than the older leaves on your plant. Why not go to 1.5 teaspoons per 10 gallons of Equilibrium and see if that helps? 

Remember, existing leaves will not show much if any change - it is the newer leaves that we observe. Potassium (K), and magnesium (Mg) are both mobile nutrients (meaning that the plant can move them from older leaves to newer leaves so deficiencies will usually show up in older leaves unless extreme. To see if we are improving when dealing with K and Mg deficiencies we watch recently matured leaves 'normal' leaves to see if they develop the white flecking / necrosis or leaf margin curling. Calcium (Ca) is a non-mobile nutrient so the plant cannot move it from older leaves to newer leaves; that is why the new leaves are affected and the 'hooking' and/or deformed growth occurs on new leaves as they emerge.


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## dukydaf (Dec 27, 2004)

With a GH of 10, I cannot really see an argument for simultaneous Mg and Ca being in short concentration for the plants. Not when others grow the same exact plant species in GH 6 or less with no problems. Remember your chemistry GH measures mainly Ca and Mg ions, if they are measured they are available to plants. 

I would agree with Roy in that you should focus on the new growth for now. There is usually some lag time with all biological responses between the change and the observable reaction that can be attributed to the change. For most high tech tank I would say 2 weeks minimal. Focus on one change at a time. I know it is temping to run around every day changing one thing that maybe will overnight heal all but you end up running 3m in every direction in a labyrinth. Not a good strategy. 

Mg deficiency in S. repens will be immediately obvious as white patches with green veins in old leaves, long before influencing new leaves. Instead of trying to compare our aquatic plants with results from maize, wheat and rice, we should perform controlled experiments to determine how deficiencies actually look in aquarium plants. 

My theory would be that given the reported high levels of macro there was no limitation here. GH would also not indicate a limitation in Mg and Ca. CO2 may be decent but if light is high enough and the macros are abundant in may not be enough for the demand. Or maybe more likely looking at the growth, there is K or a secondary macro or one micro deficient. The theory being that the plants are driven so hard by all the other abundant factors that they do not get enough of a minor factor that is not a common deficiency.

This can be easily tested by 
1. lowering the light
2. lowering the CO2 ( not recommended) 
3. lowering a macro ( preferably P)

If it were the case that one of the many micros was in shortage, the plants will not need as much when their growth is limited by light or P. 

But as I said, keep to one change for 2 weeks at least and focus on new growth.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

dukydaf said:


> With a GH of 10, I cannot really see an argument for simultaneous Mg and Ca being in short concentration for the plants. Not when others grow the same exact plant species in GH 6 or less with no problems. Remember your chemistry GH measures mainly Ca and Mg ions, if they are measured they are available to plants.


Hi dukydaf,

I agree that dGH measures the amount of calcium and magnesium ions but it also includes iron, manganese, and a couple of other divalent metals. Most of the ions measured are in the form of CaCO3 and MgCO3 which are basically unavailable to plants. Some of the ions are in the form of CaOH and MgOH which are more readily available to our plants for growth. How much of the CaCO3 and MgCO3 breaks down into CaOH and MgOH is dependent on the amount of available acid (i.e. carbonic acid [H2CO3] formed from CO2 [either injected or atmospheric].



> GH is commonly expressed in parts per million (ppm) of calcium carbonate (CaCO3), degrees hardness (dH) or, more properly, the molar concentration of CaCO3. One German degree hardness (dH) is 10 mg of calcium oxide (CaO) per liter. In the U.S., hardness is usually measured in ppm of CaCO3. A German dH is 17.8 ppm CaCO3. A molar concentration of 1 milli-equivalent per liter (mEq/l) = 2.8 dH = 50 ppm. Note that most test kits give the hardness in units of CaCO3; this means the hardness is equivalent to that much CaCO3 in water but does not mean it actually came from CaCO3.


Basically, what I understand all of this to mean is that dGH is not all available to our plants. For example, below are some readings from various rivers in the U.S. showing the Total Hardness (dGH), the Carbonate Hardness (dKH), and the amount of Ca++ found therein. The amount of Ca++ (which our plants can uptake) is +/- 25% of the total hardness ppm.


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## Surf (Jun 13, 2017)

up still doing weekly 50% WC's. I have just tested my tap water, here are the results:

Nitrate: 0/0.5
Phosphate: 0.25

Could you also please provide the TDS, GH and KH of your tap?


are you calculating your doing correctly? You state it is a 90Liter tank. Using Rotana Butterfly I calculate for a 0.25g KNO3 dose you increase your NO3 level by 2.32ppm. For Phosphate your dose of 0.8g should increase your PO4 level by 6.95ppm. 

Based on these calculations have a lot of excess phosphate.



> I have been dosing 25% of that due to the nitrate + phosphate becoming very high by the end of the week (40/80ppm nitrate, 10+ phosphate). The problem is even at 25% EI dosage my nitrates are at 40ppm,


I cannot understand How your nitrate can be that high if your dosing is as low as stated earlier. Either something is wrong with the test kit or the high phosphate levels are causing it to read incorrectly. Or I made a mistake somewhere.


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Hi Ninja_green,
> 
> The Leaf Tip Hooking on your new growth looks to be less than the older leaves on your plant. Why not go to 1.5 teaspoons per 10 gallons of Equilibrium and see if that helps?
> 
> Remember, existing leaves will not show much if any change - it is the newer leaves that we observe. Potassium (K), and magnesium (Mg) are both mobile nutrients (meaning that the plant can move them from older leaves to newer leaves so deficiencies will usually show up in older leaves unless extreme. To see if we are improving when dealing with K and Mg deficiencies we watch recently matured leaves 'normal' leaves to see if they develop the white flecking / necrosis or leaf margin curling. Calcium (Ca) is a non-mobile nutrient so the plant cannot move it from older leaves to newer leaves; that is why the new leaves are affected and the 'hooking' and/or deformed growth occurs on new leaves as they emerge.


 Hey Seattle_Aquarist, thanks for the reply. It defiantly does look to have less hooking, I need to look closer at my plants, as I have over looked this for a while. I will defiantly increase the Equilibrium dosage next WC and see how the new growth looks two weeks after. I will post an update picture after the two weeks 

Thanks for the information you have given here along with dukydaf. When I started my planted tank I did not really look into ferts much, which is now showing with my deficiencies in my plants.

Hopefully this will show signs of my rotala improving also, as it seems to have a deficiency also, with burn holes, stunted new growth and slightly transparent new leaves.




dukydaf said:


> With a GH of 10, I cannot really see an argument for simultaneous Mg and Ca being in short concentration for the plants. Not when others grow the same exact plant species in GH 6 or less with no problems. Remember your chemistry GH measures mainly Ca and Mg ions, if they are measured they are available to plants.
> 
> I would agree with Roy in that you should focus on the new growth for now. There is usually some lag time with all biological responses between the change and the observable reaction that can be attributed to the change. For most high tech tank I would say 2 weeks minimal. Focus on one change at a time. I know it is temping to run around every day changing one thing that maybe will overnight heal all but you end up running 3m in every direction in a labyrinth. Not a good strategy.
> 
> ...


 
Hi dukydaf, I can defiantly understand that 10 GH is fine, but for this scenario I will for two weeks increase the Equilibrium dosage as suggested and monitor the new growth as you and Seattle_Aquarist have stated. I will post back with pictures of the growth and parameters, hopefully it shows improved new growth 

Your theory could defiantly be accurate, the water test I carried out was done before I had done a very large WC to reset the tank as you suggested previously. Also how often would you suggest to do these large WC's? Due to testing before the large WC could be the reason why the Macro's were so high in the tests, I will test this on Friday and report back though, as I could be wrong here.

I feel like my CO2 is on the verge of being quite deadly in the tank, it is lime green by the time the light (Finnex 24/7 Planted+ 24" - MAX setting) turns on.

If after the two weeks the increase of Equilibrium dosage does not show the new growth looking healthier, then I will reduce the light and see how the new growth looks again. How much would you suggest to reduce the light if you were to take this action though?

Bump:


Surf said:


> up still doing weekly 50% WC's. I have just tested my tap water, here are the results:
> 
> Nitrate: 0/0.5
> Phosphate: 0.25
> ...


 I will test the TDS, GH and KH of my tap water tomorrow and post them here.

As far as I’m aware I am, I did state above that I also halved that dosage for a 90L it was suggesting due to the high levels of nitrate/ phosphate by the end of the week. Again this could be due to not doing a large WC to reset the EI dosage often. I was previously doing 50%, but this was not taking the nitrate down much. 

I have two API test kits, both giving the same result. They could both be bad or there is just that much nitrate and phosphate present in the tank.


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## dukydaf (Dec 27, 2004)

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> GH is commonly * expressed in* parts per million (ppm) of calcium carbonate (CaCO3), degrees hardness (dH) or, more properly, the molar concentration of CaCO3. One German degree hardness (dH) is 10 mg of calcium oxide (CaO) per liter. In the U.S., hardness is usually* measured in ppm* of CaCO3. A German dH is 17.8 ppm CaCO3. A molar concentration of 1 milli-equivalent per liter (mEq/l) = 2.8 dH = 50 ppm. Note that most test kits give the hardness in units of CaCO3; this *means the hardness is equivalent to *that much CaCO3 in water *but does not mean it actually came from CaCO3.*
> 
> Basically, what I understand all of this to mean is that dGH is not all available to our plants.


Hi Roy,

I hope the OP will not mind this side note. We have been around this subject several times now, but at least now I think I discovered the source of misunderstanding. If you have any questions after reading my post please ask. I will be more than glad to clarify. 

You notice the words in bold above... Expressed in, measured in, equivalent to. Consider this if you will


If I add 25mg CaCO3 in 1L water I will get 25 mg/L CaCO3 or 10mg/L Ca.

If I were to add 43mg CaSO4.2H2O (gypsum) to 1 L water I will get 10mg/L Ca. Or the equivalent amount of calcium that would be added by 25mg CaCO3.

This is done for historical reasons and is used as a way of standardization in reporting. Often such reporting is regulated in order to ease comparison. You have the same thing on (mostly emersed) plant fertilizer bottles where K is reported as k2o equivalents and P as P2O5 equivalents. These compounds were never added into water and are not formed in the fertilizer. They are just used to standardize reporting. 

We do it the same way sometimes saying, I added the equivalent of 10mg/L No3 as urea. I actually added 4.8mg/L ch4n2o (urea) but so that we can easily compare our dosing I report it as No3 equivalents. 

Don't trust me? Do the following experiment... Very quick and simple.

Take 1L of distilled water and boil it. This will remove most of the gasses.

Add 394mg MgSo4*H2O (Epsom salt) to it and measure the GH. If done right it will have a GH of ~9 or 160 mg/L CaCO3 equivalents.

160mg/L CaCO3 means a KH of about 9 dKH. Measure the KH. Is there any? No, because we did not add any source of carbonates and there is no CaCO3 there. Besides we only added magnesium but now all of a sudden our test reports Ca, of which there should be 0 in distilled water. 

So to sum up this part. Ca and Mg that are detected from an aquarium water sample are present as ions and are available to plants. Any CaCo3 molecule in a solution will precipitate, as it is a solid. For historic reasons water hardness is reported as equivalent mg/L CaCo3 but it does not mean you have CaCo3 in the solution or that CaCo3 was ever added or present in the solution. 


To the op questions


> Also how often would you suggest to do these large WC's? Due to testing before the large WC could be the reason why the Macro's were so high in the tests, I will test this on Friday and report back though, as I could be wrong here


Do it weekly instead of the 50% if your No3 and Po4 are still running high. If you manage to keep them within targets by the end of the week and do not wish to adopt a different routine to test, just do the 50%. Going over the 50% does no harm if nutrients for the plants are added back in enough conc. 

Is this still the finnex 24/7? I do not have firsthand experience with it but I would try somewhere between 25 and 50 % reduction.


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

dukydaf said:


> Seattle_Aquarist said:
> 
> 
> > GH is commonly * expressed in* parts per million (ppm) of calcium carbonate (CaCO3), degrees hardness (dH) or, more properly, the molar concentration of CaCO3. One German degree hardness (dH) is 10 mg of calcium oxide (CaO) per liter. In the U.S., hardness is usually* measured in ppm* of CaCO3. A German dH is 17.8 ppm CaCO3. A molar concentration of 1 milli-equivalent per liter (mEq/l) = 2.8 dH = 50 ppm. Note that most test kits give the hardness in units of CaCO3; this *means the hardness is equivalent to *that much CaCO3 in water *but does not mean it actually came from CaCO3.*
> ...


I don't mind you guys talking very scientific, it makes me feel dumb to read it though  

Will do then Roy, I will have to get a bigger bucket so it makes it easier, either that or a python 

I will be testing the parameters and reporting back on Friday, so hopefully it is within a good range. 

For each 10L bucket I add 5ml of AquaSafe dechlorinator, about 1/2 teaspoon of baking soda, and 1 teaspoon of equilibrium.

It still has the day/night cycle, but I think the colour wavelengths are slightly different compared to the original 24/7. I will start with a 25% reduction, because if I reduce it too much I think the plants on towards the back might struggle for light, but I could be wrong.

Shall I make this change after two weeks with the increased equilibrium dosage, so I stick to one change at a time?


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

Surf said:


> Could you also please provide the TDS, GH and KH of your tap?


So here are my full tap parameters:

Phosphate: 0.25
Nitrate: 0/0.5
TDS: 56
GH: 1
KH: 0


I think I am also going to do a full day of monitoring my PH to see how much the CO2 drops it throughout the day.
Hope this helps.


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

Just tested my water parameters, the nitrate still higher than I would like, and the same with the phosphate, what do you think? 

TDS: 303
Phosphate: 10+
GH: 6
KH: 3
PH: 6.4
Ammonia: 0
Nitritie: 0
Nitrate: 40

My Rotala is showing very poor growth also sadly, it's leaves are so small and hardly growing


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## Zorfox (Jun 24, 2012)

Hello Ninja,

I think you need to review your doses. I'll do them as listed.



Ninja_green said:


> KNO3 0.25
> MgSO4.7H2O 1.13g
> PO4 0.8g
> Trace: 0.11g


I assume the KNO3 dose is grams? Those silly notations can make a big difference. If so that is about a 25% EI dose as you have stated.

The magnesium dose is about 25% of an EI dose. That's good. However, it's only dosed once a week after water changes. Instead of weighing this one just add one teaspoon after your water change. That's about a full EI dose for your tank.

PO4 is not a fertilizer. I assume you're referring to Kh2PO4? If so you're dosing too much. A full EI dose is 0.168g. If you want to use 25% it's 0.042g.

Trace? Again I assume you meant Plantex. The dose reported by rotala's calculator is inaccurate. The actual EI dose approved by Tom Barr is 0.5ppm of Fe. Rotala's calculator was changed during the trace toxicity results. The target that calculator uses is 0.2ppm of Fe. The actual EI dose is 0.689g or approximately 1/8 teaspoon.

Based on what I just explained it's no wonder your PO4 levels are high. Your nitrates are quite disturbing. You're not dosing that much so it's either coming from somewhere else or your testing routined is flawed.

If you're using the API nitrate kit then make sure you follow the directions exactly! Not shaking the bottle and/or sample long enough is a common error. It's always a good idea to calibrate your test kits. 

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1...83545-calibrating-test-kits-non-chemists.html

It's also possible your aquasoil is still leeching ammonia which is converted to nitrates. It's very common for aqua soil to do this. That's why it's reccomended to change water very frequently for the first few months.

As far as GH boosters, I would'nt add any with a GH of 10.

If your tests calibrate accurately then stop dosing KNO3 and PO4. Instead, add a potassium supplement such as K2SO4. If the nitrate and/or PO4 levels drop below 5ppm for nitrate and 1ppm for PO4 then resume dosing. Otherwise, you're just adding fuel to the fire.


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## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

Follow @Zorfox re-start to the letter and you will probably correct within two weeks (focus on new growth). In fact, get his calculator. I've found it has some better aspects than the rotalabutterfly calculator.



Ninja_green said:


> My Rotala is showing very poor growth also sadly, it's leaves are so small and hardly growing


Be aware that rotala does best in high light, although those stunted leaves are beyond light issues. However, I think I saw where you were thinking about reducing your light, which won't help the rotala. You might want to try to put some of the rotala directly under your Finnex, if it isn't already, to see if it helps.


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## dukydaf (Dec 27, 2004)

> If after the two weeks the increase of Equilibrium dosage does not show the new growth looking healthier, then I will reduce the light and see how the new growth looks again.


That was from 4th Dec. It was only one week.

If the tests from the water are accurate, you may want to identify the source of such high contamination.

Regarding the Rotala, new branches will be smaller at start. Still yours look a little stunned. Could you move one stem right where the Co2 exits the filter ? Differences in growth will help determine if CO2 is actually well distributed. 

Again, if the numbers are really what is in the water these macronutrients will be non-limiting for plant growth. Maybe the high PO4 conc takes micronutrients out of the water. Or maybe the micronutrient conc. is used up by plant growth and is a limiting factor ? This is more like random speculation.

I still think it is too soon to decide one way or another if an approach works.


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

Zorfox said:


> Hello Ninja,
> 
> I think you need to review your doses. I'll do them as listed.
> 
> ...


 Hi @Zorfox thank you very much for the reply.

Yes the dosing is measured out in grams. Yeah the 25% EI was to try and reduce the high Nitrates/Phosphates.

Ok the dosing for the magnesium sounds fine, I will start doing that for sure. Sorry yes I was referring to kh2PO4, my bad there. It defiantly does look like I am dosing too much Kh2PO4, I will reweigh my ferts inline what you have stated, and hopefully I see a positive change on plant health.

The trace is a UK mixture, which is called "Aquarium Plant Food UK Trace". I did not know that about the Fe target, I just read a few post of people using the calculator and thought I would try it out also, but thank you for telling me that though. I will again alter my dosing with with what you said above.

Hopefully the updated dosing will reduce the Kh2PO4  The Nitrates are, I done another large WC yesterday, the Monte Carlo carpet I have is clean from detritus from each week that I vacuum it, and I feed very sparingly. The tank stocking has 7 tetras in total, and two Amano shrimp, so I don’t think overstocking is an issue here. 

I shake and smack the bottles of a table to mix them up properly, I probably do this for 3 minutes instead of the guided one minute, just to try and get as accurate as a test possible.

I will defiantly look into calibrating my kit though, thanks for the link! The Aquasoil has been in the tank for about a year now I would say, can it still leach after a year? 

So that would mean to stop dosing the Equilibrium? Do I not need the other minerals that are being added from it though? It was thought I wasn't dosing enough in the above comments due to the curling leaf margins and white flecking on my Staurogyne repens.
Thanks again for your information you have provided 




Deanna said:


> Follow @Zorfox re-start to the letter and you will probably correct within two weeks (focus on new growth). In fact, get his calculator. I've found it has some better aspects than the rotalabutterfly calculator.
> 
> 
> 
> Be aware that rotala does best in high light, although those stunted leaves are beyond light issues. However, I think I saw where you were thinking about reducing your light, which won't help the rotala. You might want to try to put some of the rotala directly under your Finnex, if it isn't already, to see if it helps.


Will do!  Is this the correct calculator? Zorfox's Planted Tank Calculator

I will take two stems and place them right by the spray bar where the CO2 is released from near the surface. I never know what to do with the light, I have reduced it before, but the growth of the carpet and leaves lower down the stem were not getting much light as it seemed. The tank does get quite a bit of BBA on rocks, but my focus currently is getting my plants healthy then focus on the BBA fight! Thank you for the comment.



dukydaf said:


> That was from 4th Dec. It was only one week.
> 
> If the tests from the water are accurate, you may want to identify the source of such high contamination.
> 
> ...



Yeah you are correct, I wanted to show the stunned growth of the Rotala, as it might indicate another deficency that may be present. Weirdly my Rotala used to grow very well, but i cut it about 3 months ago and ever since it has had very bad growth 

I will definatly move a few stems directly by the spray bar where the CO2 exists. I will take some pictures so we can see any changes in growth aswell. I will keep reporting back parameters and pictures, and hopefully I can get this issue sorted


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## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

Ninja_green said:


> Is this the correct calculator? Zorfox's Planted Tank Calculator
> 
> I will take two stems and place them right by the spray bar where the CO2 is released from near the surface. I never know what to do with the light, I have reduced it before, but the growth of the carpet and leaves lower down the stem were not getting much light as it seemed. The tank does get quite a bit of BBA on rocks, but my focus currently is getting my plants healthy then focus on the BBA fight! Thank you for the comment.


Yes: that is the correct calculator (remember to donate).

Good plan to get the plants healthy, rather than fighting BBA first. Top priorities are light and CO2. Push CO2 to the max until fish gasp, then back off a little. Then do it again each day until you find the point where fish hit their ceiling and you can't raise CO2 anymore. Again, follow Zorfox' nutrient dosing schedule.

If you want my way of getting rid of BBA, read my posts here: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/23-algae/1201297-regular-excel-dosing-bba.html. However, be aware that most people (if not all) choke on such a heavy dose of glut. It is once a week ONLY and I never lost a fish, Amano or plant, at least no plants that aren't normally susceptible to it, e.g.; anacharis.

If - if - you are using the API nitrate kit, I would toss it out. I can't read any distinction between 10 and 40 ppm on that kit. Their phosphate and GH/KH kits are good. I've calibrated those. I prefer the Salifert Nitrate test kit. It's easy to read and I've calibrated it.


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

Deanna said:


> Yes: that is the correct calculator (remember to donate).
> 
> Good plan to get the plants healthy, rather than fighting BBA first. Top priorities are light and CO2. Push CO2 to the max until fish gasp, then back off a little. Then do it again each day until you find the point where fish hit their ceiling and you can't raise CO2 anymore. Again, follow Zorfox' nutrient dosing schedule.
> 
> ...


 Will defiantly do so!

Yeah the BBA is annoying, but having plants struggling is battle I would rather fight. I did use to use glut for my BGA a while back, it did remove it eventually, but my Monte Carlo melted quite a bit at the time.

Yup I am, I have two API test kits. It is bad when you get past 10 for sure. All my test kits currently are API, but I may try that one that you suggested to see if it yields a different test result.


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## Surf (Jun 13, 2017)

> So here are my full tap parameters:
> 
> Phosphate: 0.25
> Nitrate: 0/0.5
> ...





> As far as GH boosters, I would'nt add any with a GH of 10.


If your tank GH is that high but your tape has only a GH 1 (basically your tap is just rain water or RO water) then it is likely your plants are not growing or growing very slowly or you have not been cycling enough water in your tank. For your next water change I would skip the Equilibriu dose to get the GH down. For the future I would continue to use Equilibrium but adjust the dose to maintain a GH of 3. 



> PO4 is not a fertilizer. I assume you're referring to Kh2PO4? If so you're dosing too much. A full EI dose is 0.168g. If you want to use 25% it's 0.042g.


One thing to keep in mind is high levels of some nutrients can actually slow plant growth. Phosphate and many of the micro nutrients have this effect when your have too much in the water. I am not saying that you do not have a deficiency. What I am saying is that you probably have multiple issues. 

You have resolved the low GH of your tape water with Equilibrium. and now you have confirmation your Phosphate dose is way to high, Skip adding any Phosphate at the next water change until it comes down. You should recheck all of your dosing to make sure you are not overdoing it. As to the high nitrate I don't know where that is coming from. But is it possible that the high Phosphate levels might be affecting the nitrate test giving you a false results. Calibrating your test kit is a good idea.


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## Zorfox (Jun 24, 2012)

Ninja_green said:


> The trace is a UK mixture, which is called "Aquarium Plant Food UK Trace". I did not know that about the Fe target, I just read a few post of people using the calculator and thought I would try it out also, but thank you for telling me that though. I will again alter my dosing with with what you said above.


I hesitated before mentioning it because I like their calculator. Many of the new options and fertilizer entries came from my own calculator. I used to help Carlos (aka Wet) with his calculator before his passing. The EI dose for trace mixes was to target an iron dose of 0.5ppm. That's what Tom Barr approved for the original online calculator. 

I noticed the change after some of the trace toxicity debates. My point is that it's not a full EI dose as their calculator states. EI is EI just like any other dosing method. Simply report the dose. That said, I actually agree with reducing trace nutrients but that's another debate. My point is, the software author's opinions should have no bearing on the final product. 





Ninja_green said:


> I will defiantly look into calibrating my kit though, thanks for the link!


Calibrate is an odd term to use for this. Instead, think of it as verifying your testing procedure. If you can test samples with known nitrate levels for example your test is verified accurate. There's nothing worse than spending a couple of weeks trying to find a high nitrate problem only to realize the kit expired 8 years ago. 




Ninja_green said:


> The Aquasoil has been in the tank for about a year now I would say, can it still leach after a year?


No. You shouldn't have ammonia issues after a year. 



Ninja_green said:


> So that would mean to stop dosing the Equilibrium? Do I not need the other minerals that are being added from it though? It was thought I wasn't dosing enough in the above comments due to the curling leaf margins and white flecking on my Staurogyne repens.


Personally I would stop dosing Equilibrium with a GH of 10. However, true EI recommends dosing it anyway because it won't hurt. That actually makes a lot of sense. If you feel more comfortable dosing it then it's not going to hurt anything.

We only add Equilibrium or any other GH booster for it's Ca and Mg. There is more than enough potassium and iron from the other fertilizers we use.

When it comes to water we typically see a lot more calcium than magnesium. In fact, if anything you won't have enough magnesium. Since GH is a measure of both (technically all divalent metals) we can deduce that with a high GH we will certainly have sufficient calcium. The odds that there will be sufficient magnesium with a high GH are pretty good but a little to be sure won't hurt. In fact, true EI suggests it through GH boosters.


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## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

Surf said:


> One thing to keep in mind is high levels of some nutrients can actually slow plant growth. Phosphate and many of the micro nutrients have this effect when your have too much in the water.


 @Surf
Can you cite sources for this statement about PO4? I'm interested and cannot find any reference to PO4 toxicity issues on either TPT or a broad web search. Also can't find any reference to high PO4 causing limited uptake of other nutrients, since that might involved.

What I did find was speculation, by Tom Barr, that extremely high levels (>1000 ppm) might stress fish.



> Upper ranges perhaps might be 150-250 ppm for NO3, maybe 1000 ppm for PO4, basically you start heading into salinity stress for PO4, K+ etc, NO3 might be a bit lower. Warm water fish are very tolerant in general of NO3.


Appreciate any links you can provide.


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

Zorfox said:


> I hesitated before mentioning it because I like their calculator. Many of the new options and fertilizer entries came from my own calculator. I used to help Carlos (aka Wet) with his calculator before his passing. The EI dose for trace mixes was to target an iron dose of 0.5ppm. That's what Tom Barr approved for the original online calculator.
> 
> I noticed the change after some of the trace toxicity debates. My point is that it's not a full EI dose as their calculator states. EI is EI just like any other dosing method. Simply report the dose. That said, I actually agree with reducing trace nutrients but that's another debate. My point is, the software author's opinions should have no bearing on the final product.
> 
> ...


Using your calculator to measure the tank volume my tank actually is 72.24 Litres, so this could defiantly be affecting my dosage amount if I am over dosing for my actual tank volume. I will remeasure tomorrow and report back. I will also weigh out my ferts with the new tank volume, hopefully this is the cause of the high nitrate.

That is fair, their calculator is good for sure. Thanks for being a staple for the calculator development though. Being new to actually understanding fert dosage I am willing to try the calculators provided to see what works best 

Understood, I will try to verify it soon, I may also get another nitrate kit as suggested above distinguish between ppm values easier, as the API kit is a little hard in that regard. The kit I was originally using was out of date by a few months, but the kit I use now is good till 2020 apparently.

I do feel more comfortable dosing just because of the deficiency’s that I hope it is starting to resolve, but I will keep that in mind about stopping when it is that high. As my GH is at 10, surely I should have sufficient calcium, so I will see in a week to see if the new growth looks any better.


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

Hello, and happy new year to you all. I thought I should update this thread with the progress of the parameters/ plant growth. I have been trialling the new calculator, along with the actual volume of my tank which was around 82L. Below is what I have been dosing for two weeks now:

Trace recommended 0.5g, but dosing 50% @0.25g
KNO3 recommended 1g, but dosing 50% @ 0.5g
MgSO4.72HO recommended 4.1g, but dosing 50% @ 2g
PO4 recommended 0.19g, but dosing roughly 50% @ 0.1g

1 teaspoon of Equilibrium for every 10L of water that was changed.
½ teaspoon of Bicarbonate soda.

Here are my parameters at the end of the second week. These were measured right before the WC.

TDS: 320
Nitrate: 40
PO4: 5
PH: 6.4
KH: 2
GH: 9

I have taken some pictures of most of my plants in my tank, in case someone might be able to notice something I do not see wrong. Growth to me seems to be the same, and I also tied two stems of Rotala Rotundifolia to the spray bar where the CO2 exits (Has been tied there since it was suggested), but the growth there still looks stunted, can be seen in this image:









You may also notice the BBA in the background of some of the pictures, It actually seems to be growing more dense


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi @Ninja_green,

Definitely an improvement wouldn't you say? I don't see any new leaf deformity to speak of except possibly in the last picture, the Pogostemon erectus looks very good.

I see you added dosing of Equilibrium to your dosing schedule. The role of calcium (Ca) as a regulator of growth in plants has been proven but is still not fully understood even though research goes back to the 1970's and before. Please continue to keep us updated.


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Hi @Ninja_green,
> 
> Definitely an improvement wouldn't you say? I don't see any new leaf deformity to speak of except possibly in the last picture, the Pogostemon erectus looks very good.
> 
> I see you added dosing of Equilibrium to your dosing schedule. The role of calcium (Ca) as a regulator of growth in plants has been proven but is still not fully understood even though research goes back to the 1970's and before. Please continue to keep us updated.


Hey @Seattle_Aquarist,
Thanks for the reply, I definitely do see improved growth. I have cut some of the dying leaves to see if the new growth comes back healthier. That was done last week, so we will see how it goes!

And I am indeed! The Equilibrium tub is depleting quite fast now  If it helps I'm all for it though.

Where would you cut the Pogostemon erectus stem? As it looks quite ugly when half of the plant is dying leaves. When I used to cut it lower to the substrate it did not grow great at all until it started growing taller.

I will report back with parameters next week again to see if I still have excess nitrates/ phosphates. 

Also I don't know why some of my Rotala's stems have started growing fine, but the other are still struggling, with small leaves, and slow stunted growth. I have attached two images to show this:


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Ninja_green said:


> Hey @Seattle_Aquarist,
> Thanks for the reply, I definitely do see improved growth. I have cut some of the dying leaves to see if the new growth comes back healthier. That was done last week, so we will see how it goes!
> 
> And I am indeed! The Equilibrium tub is depleting quite fast now  If it helps I'm all for it though.
> ...


Hi @Ninja_green,

First of all I appreciate the feedback, a lot of times on forums suggestions / recommendations are given but the results are not shared which leads to wondering if positive results were attained or not.

You may want to let the stems grow another inch or two before trimming. If I were trimming the P. erectus I would do it an inch or two into the old foliage because I usually trim the bottom couple of inches of leaves off of a stem prior to planting. Then plant the top part and compost the old stem.

It is strange that the one stem of Rotala is responding faster than the rest, let's see what happens in the next week or so. We may have to 'bump' the Equilibrium up a bit more but let's see what happens first......some stems may just take more time to recover than others.

As for the Seachem Equilibrium if a tank is large the usage can become pricey. Until the tank is stabilized I would stick with what works which is the Equilibrium. Once stabilized then try a "generic" GH Booster from aquariumfertilizer.com or nilocg.com and see if the good growth continues....it will save you money. The Equilibrium does contain a couple of nutrients the generics do not, specifically iron and manganese but it may be worth a try.


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Hi @*Ninja_green*,
> 
> First of all I appreciate the feedback, a lot of times on forums suggestions / recommendations are given but the results are not shared which leads to wondering if positive results were attained or not.
> 
> ...


 Hey @Seattle_Aquaris;

Yeah I see that a lot also when looking into projects, you never know what the results were sadly.. I will keep sharing updates/ dosage/ parameters for help myself, and for anyone that may benefit from it in the future.

Ok so if I let them grow quite tall, say another inch like you suggested. When I come to replant they should be high enough to get good lighting hopefully. Again I will do this when they grow a bit more, and I will take pictures of the growth.

All my Rotala has been like this for some time now, I get one or two stems that suddenly start to flourish, then after the trim they die back or grow stunned new leaves. It’s a vicious cycle.

It can indeed! I obviously wasn't using enough last time, hence having the same tub for some time.. Because I am dosing more I will look into alternatives such as the ones you suggested when my tank shows positive growth across most of my plants in the tank 
Once the plants are growing better as well, I will need to address the BBA issue as it is trying to take over slowly :|


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

Thought I would update progress on the health of my plants as it has been a good few weeks now. The parameters do see like they are in check after changing the dosing, both will be listed below.


*Dosing regimen*
Macro & Trace added 3 times a week

Trace recommended 0.5g, Dosing 100% of that.
KNO3 recommended 1g, but dosing 30% @ 0.3g
MgSO4.72HO recommended 4.1g, Dosing 100% of that.
PO4 recommended 0.19g, but dosing roughly 30% @ 0.07g

1 teaspoon of Equilibrium for every 10L of water that was changed.
½ teaspoon of Bicarbonate soda.


*Parameters * (Measured before WC)

*TDS:* 395
*Nitrate:* 20
*PO4:* 2.0
*PH:* 6.0
*KH:* 3
*GH:* 9

Here is an updated picture to the Rotala that was attached directly in front of the CO2 output:








Staurogyne repens growth looks quite healthy to my eye, a lot better than it was before. Old growth starts to get decaying leaves, but I presume that is to allow for new healthy growth.








Rotala Rotundifolia has had some stems that have taken off and started growing again, but there are quite a few that are still stunned.









Hygrophila corymbosa has quite a few pin holes, could this be a potassium deficiency potentially? 








Lobelia cardinalis growth has been slow, and the growth that does come dies shortly after.








Hope some of these pictures along with my dosing & parameters can help guide me to try and further improve my plants hopefully  Thanks!


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## Surf (Jun 13, 2017)

> Dosing regimen
> Macro & Trace added 3 times a week
> 
> Trace recommended 0.5g, Dosing 100% of that.
> ...





> So here are my full tap parameters:
> 
> Phosphate: 0.25
> Nitrate: 0/0.5
> ...


Why are you dosing MgSO4 3 times a week? It is in your equilibrium which you add once a week. I would recommend you try dropping the MgSO4 and just add equilibrium as needed during the week to keep a stable GH. 

Equilibrium is mainly mix of CaSO4 and MgSO4. It has a balance of calcium and magnesium. Plants need both. So after a water change your Ca/Mg are balanced. However by adding more magnesium over the week you are replacing the magnesium the plants are consuming. But you are not doing that for the calcium. So your plants may be running out of calcium during the week. Most of the GH in your aquarium right now is probably Magnesium.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi @Ninja_green,

First a quick review, this is what one species looked like when you started'









And this is what it looks like now









Congratulations, I think you are on the right path and making very good progress. The Lobelia cardinalis in your picture below is still showing some new leaf deformities and the species to the right of your Rotala rotundifolia in the third picture is the same, possibly a little more calcium is needed. You may want to increase your Equilibrium slightly (1-1/4 teaspoons) and watch the new leaves as they emerge over the next couple of weeks.









Species to the right of your Rotala rotundifolia


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

R. Rotundifolia is difficult for me also.
I had to abandon it.
It was beautiful when I had fresh aquasoil but then after the first trim it just went stunted and awful.
Your Bacopa looks good to me, that little twist in the leaves is nice and I think a sign of good lighting. Plus it's not permanent, they always go normal after a bit.


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

Surf said:


> Why are you dosing MgSO4 3 times a week? It is in your equilibrium which you add once a week. I would recommend you try dropping the MgSO4 and just add equilibrium as needed during the week to keep a stable GH.
> 
> Equilibrium is mainly mix of CaSO4 and MgSO4. It has a balance of calcium and magnesium. Plants need both. So after a water change your Ca/Mg are balanced. However by adding more magnesium over the week you are replacing the magnesium the plants are consuming. But you are not doing that for the calcium. So your plants may be running out of calcium during the week. Most of the GH in your aquarium right now is probably Magnesium.


 It is the amount that was recommended by Zorfox's calculator, I can defiantly try dosing without the MgS04 though and monitor for any changes, I think for now as I have already mixed my EI fertiliser for the next two weeks I will increase the Equilibrium dosage as @Seattle_Aquarist suggested. Thanks for your reply and suggestion, will defiantly try it in the coming weeks.




Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Hi @*Ninja_green*,
> 
> First a quick review, this is what one species looked like when you started'
> 
> ...


 Hey @Seattle_AquaristThank you, I wouldn't be getting any better growth if I didn't get any support on this topic! The Lobelia cardinalis defiantly do look like they have some deformities, the plant in the third picture is Bacopa caroliniana, so hopefully upping the Equilibrium will help these plants out! Would you say this would also help the Hygrophila corymbosa shown in the fourth picture with the pin holes?




Chlorophile said:


> R. Rotundifolia is difficult for me also.
> I had to abandon it.
> It was beautiful when I had fresh aquasoil but then after the first trim it just went stunted and awful.
> Your Bacopa looks good to me, that little twist in the leaves is nice and I think a sign of good lighting. Plus it's not permanent, they always go normal after a bit.


 That sucks to hear! My growth sounds very similar to that also. I have Rotala SP Green that grew very fast and lush, but as seen in the pictures some of the steams are stunned, hopefully with changes to the fertiliser/ equilibrium dosage both the R. SP Green and the R. Rotundifolia will bounce back as I love these plants.
The bacopa has been growing pretty nicely, I had to move it from the back left of my tank as it was struggling, potentially with lack of light? Not too sure, but it has been doing better since


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Ninja_green said:


> It is the amount that was recommended by Zorfox's calculator, I can defiantly try dosing without the MgS04 though and monitor for any changes, I think for now as I have already mixed my EI fertiliser for the next two weeks I will increase the Equilibrium dosage as @Seattle_Aquarist suggested. Thanks for your reply and suggestion, will defiantly try it in the coming weeks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi @Ninja_green,

Yes, if the holes in the Hygrophila corymbosa are due to a potassium deficiency (one of the most likely causes) then the potassium in the Equilibrium should result in improvement.


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## dukydaf (Dec 27, 2004)

Not trying to be confrontational, but observer bias is a strong force even for the most honest of us. If you look at the photo you can still see the same problems you described in your first edit: 

blue arrow - leaf margins curling down --- associated with Mg deficiency 
red arrow - leaf tip hooking --- associated with Ca deficiency
yellow arrow - white flecking --- associated with K deficiency
look at the DHG, what about the yellow leaves there ?

If these were not solved after adding that amount of Ca and Mg (GH 9) and K to the water what does it tell us ?

If the Rotala rotundifolia "attached directly in front of the CO2 output" has such big large leaves, while the other one still struggles, what would this suggest ?

To the OP : Sometimes the growing tips are damaged beyond repair, this is what you are observing in Rotala. Some will be reparable some will not, and the plant will grown branches with correct growth and abandon the old growing tips, once it has all it needs. You can also see this in the plant near the CO2 output. Even this one is not 100% happy. It looks rather dull for a plant so near the surface, so either you are under-dosing traces or your light is not strong enough.

The S. repens needs a heavy trim or the lower leaves will be overshadowed. Also it is good practice to remove damaged leaves. This will help you determine if the problem continues ( do the same symptoms appear again?) and will also trigger more branching in the plants, especially S. repens and A. reineckii


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi @dukydaf,

I agree that some symptoms still continue but there is definite improvement and but remember that any leaves that were existing prior to the increase in nutrients will not change; for a Ca problem it is the newest leaves that indicate if deficiency is resolved or not. The same goes for the Mg and K issues, existing leave will not change. It is the new leaves that were formed after the increase in nutrients that will indicate if the issues are resolved as they mature.


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Hi @*Ninja_green*,
> 
> Yes, if the holes in the Hygrophila corymbosa are due to a potassium deficiency (one of the most likely causes) then the potassium in the Equilibrium should result in improvement.


Got it  I will take pictures tomorrow of the plants and hopefully we see some healthier growth in a week or two.



dukydaf said:


> Not trying to be confrontational, but observer bias is a strong force even for the most honest of us. If you look at the photo you can still see the same problems you described in your first edit:
> 
> blue arrow - leaf margins curling down --- associated with Mg deficiency
> red arrow - leaf tip hooking --- associated with Ca deficiency
> ...


 Thank you for your comment, that does make a lot of sense in regard to some stems bouncing back and some not. Yeah the stem near the CO2 output did grow stronger, but I attached two stems and only the one recovered, which links with what you was stating. The traces @ 0.5g is dosed three times a week that is what was recommended for my tank size. Would you say bump this up a little more? I am going to try Seattle_Aquarist's suggestion of more Equilibrium and monitor the new growth, then if the new growth does not look any better I can increase the traces, but I wouldn't know how much to increase it by? The light I am using is the Finnex 24/7 Planted + @ 100% with a tank depth around 14" if that helps in regards to too little light.

During the WC I did trim the S.repens and Rotala. I need to do more removal of dying leaves for sure though!


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## monkeyruler90 (Apr 13, 2008)

How's the tank doing? 
What are you dosing?


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