# Fluval 406 with awful flow...



## sundragon

I've had an issue with constantly having debris on my plants and in my moss - even though I do a 50% water change weekly.

I usually agitate the plants to get the debris into the water column hoping the filter will suck them up... Well, not with my Fluval 406.

Background info: 
My 406 was cleaned last week, impeller, media, and all - I've even removed the Seachem Purigen packs because I'm using medication this week. I have it set up with the "bio" sponge at the bottom, 2 trays to the brim with Seachem Matrix, finally 2 Purigen packs in the top tray. I had 3 trays of Seachem Matrix and switched the "bio" sponge in order to help flow, but it hasn't helped.

I've read that manufacturers rate filter GPH with no media, 1mm of head and a lot of praying, but this is ridiculous!

How does your Rena or 2217 measure up to the following video?

http://youtu.be/VpqQGSRannI


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## fermentedhiker

That does seem awfully low. My 306 has much more flow than than and it has two outputs run through hydor heaters and one of the outputs exits through and fb300 sand filter. And all of this with a a sponge on the intake to act as a prefilter so that I don't have to break down and clean the 306 as often.

Has it always been this low or did it deteriorate over time?


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## tiggity

Yeah that looks weak, and I too have a 306 fully packed with media and it's stronger than what you have. Do you have any kinks with your hoses? Aquastop valve fully open? Any obstruction in your hoses?


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## CoffeeLove

Dang! That sorta looks like the flow coming from the little HOB filter I have lol.


Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2


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## SpecialEffect

Looks like the flow of my 405 lol. After neglecting my filter with maintance... I figured the impeller and motor took a hit. Waiting for boxing day sales to buy a new filter!

Maybe yours has the same problem but premature detoriation.


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## HypnoticAquatic

video isnt playing for me just says unavalible;/, so first thing first. i would put my $ that the seal that goes around the impeller isnt seated all the way its kinda hard to push and you will hear a click to know its in for sure if not its quite possible that your filter is pushing the water out an back into the filter housing. 

ill look back if i can get the video to play an give you better info of what i think.
ok well after watching it few ?s not answered. are u using filter floss or any small micron filter? and how much debris are in the filter after 1week? if you did a rescape or made a mess in the water colum it would cause this, so first take it apart an inspect it! if there is debris then its the filter doing its job if not your likely running into a clog or improper seat on the intake or impeller issue unless your using alot of fine micron polishing that can really slow the unit down. after that report back with all info fixed or unfixed issues an advice can go from there.


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## sundragon

fermentedhiker said:


> Has it always been this low or did it deteriorate over time?


I clean the filter every two months. The flow seemed less recently so I switched to the "bio" sponge Fluval packs with these - Could it be the "bio" sponge? It should cause less restriction.

The Aquastop is fully open and the filter's output goes through a Hydor heater and a inline Atomic CO2 diffuser - both of which are ceramic tubes, it's a straight shot with no change in tube diameter. I recently swapped out the CO2 diffuser with a duplicate (I clean one and swap when they get dirty).



tiggity said:


> Do you have any kinks with your hoses? Aquastop valve fully open? Any obstruction in your hoses?


Nope, not a kink - there is about 3' of head between the top of the filter and the tank edge.



CoffeeLove said:


> Dang! That sorta looks like the flow coming from the little HOB filter I have lol.


My Aquaclear 50 passed more water than this... I know the turn over is not as important with canister filters but this isn't sufficient.



SpecialEffect said:


> Looks like the flow of my 405 lol. After neglecting my filter with maintance... I figured the impeller and motor took a hit. Waiting for boxing day sales to buy a new filter!
> 
> Maybe yours has the same problem but premature detoriation.


Yeah, maybe the motor is dying but after 9 months? I clean it every 2 months. The trays are filled fully with Matrix, more than the stingy amount of bio rings that Fluval sends with the unit - but It seemed stronger when I first got the filter.



HypnoticAquatic said:


> video isnt playing for me just says unavalible;/, so first thing first. i would put my $ that the seal that goes around the impeller isnt seated all the way its kinda hard to push and you will hear a click to know its in for sure if not its quite possible that your filter is pushing the water out an back into the filter housing.
> 
> ill look back if i can get the video to play an give you better info of what i think.
> ok well after watching it few ?s not answered. are u using filter floss or any small micron filter? and how much debris are in the filter after 1week? if you did a rescape or made a mess in the water colum it would cause this, so first take it apart an inspect it! if there is debris then its the filter doing its job if not your likely running into a clog or improper seat on the intake or impeller issue unless your using alot of fine micron polishing that can really slow the unit down. after that report back with all info fixed or unfixed issues an advice can go from there.


I wonder why the video wasn't available - i checked and it looks like it played - Thanks for the insite on the impeller seal - I'll check that tomorrow. I remember how hard you have to press it to seal.

there are two filter floss pads that do fine polishing at the top of the filter column - Fluval provides these and I replace them every 2 months with service http://www.amazon.com/Fluval-Filter-Water-Polishing-Models/dp/B001D070N6
I'll check to see if there is detritus in the filter when I check the seal - It had some when I removed the Purigen packs to start medicating the water last weekend.

One more thing - I used the awful Fluval corrugated tube for my intake - could it have gotten gummed up? Do you guys ever have to clean the tubes on the canister filter?


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## HypnoticAquatic

no i havent had to clean the tube ever not your issue. sounds like you got alot of things slowing the flow, but its hard to say if everything is seated then sounds like u got to much crap heater co2 floss slowing it down, if its clean and everything. i dont even buy more floss its really not needed unless you got horrible water getting though


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## scbrooks87

Id say test it "scientifically" if you can... Basically disconnect the filter from everything else, heater, co2, etc... and run it, see if that has dramatic improvement. if not, then take media out, and just run it empty, no attachments, and see if it looks right. If not then it's likely your pump, if it does improve dramatically, start hooking stuff up and filling it back up piece by piece with tests in between, it will diagnose what causes the issue.

Just my $.02

-Scott


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## sundragon

Hey guys, I appreciate the tips!

Well, I tore it apart, there were almost no particles - no leaves, etc in the filter - the sponges were spotless. There was quite a bit of sludge at the bottom of the canister - though, I think that's part of the nitrogen cycle.

The impeller cover was on tight, they were both spotless.

The inline heater and diffuser are clean ceramic tubes, both the same size as the filter tubes, I checked - it would be like adding a few inches of additional tubing.

The tubing is clear with a few spots - the filter was bought and setup in March. 

Possible issues: The media? Am I putting too much Matrix - Fluval is stingy with the Bio ring it provides - I have way more Matrix and it's a lot more tightly packed?

I am considering buying new 2217 or CFS-500 or an Aquatop if this is the case with Fluval filters after 9 months 

Here's the flow after cleaning:

http://youtu.be/2YtFLlGpCFM


Here are a few pics: 





































Additional pictures in the album


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## cichnatic

Another thing to try is running it without the intake strainer.


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## mott

How does it look with the original spraybar?
Lilly's are designed with a wide spout, could be deceiving. Get a gallon jug and time it to fill, then you can figure out actual working gph.


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## blink

Check the white internal prefilter sponges, when my 206 slowed down they were the culprit. Crap seems to really build up in them and I found them hard to effectively clean.


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## HypnoticAquatic

ok if your not getting much diff in flow now then it sounds like to much packed into the filter. test it by removing the polishing pad and possibly some media, but if you have sludge sitting in the bottom that isnt good an makes me belive your sponges are not cleaned enough. from my experiance the coarser ones *tall ones* might need a bit of waterpressure to really get some of the gunk out then the sponges in the tray are fine and mostly catch silt. ill see if i can get a vid for a reference of my 406 for ya to see the water flow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orb95EY9Fjs
alright i did a video of my fully cleaned 406 with full media but no polishing pad. as others have said id do the test with a 3g or 5g bucket and time it then multiply to an hour and see what your gph is, it will vary with each tank with polishingpads,heaters,head height, etc. but i bet your right in line with where mine is. i took of the nossle to show u in the video as your lilys do basicly the same as it without the nossle*no build up of pressure to force water* just nice gentle flow. do the test with a bucket first an let us know where ur at.

hope it hleps ya


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## NYREPS

Are you using after market pads on the top tray? If so some after market pads doesn't fit right and a tad bit smaller And it gets sucked up on the hole on the tray cover ,,,try putting the bio max on the top tray.


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## blink

Definitely clean, clean and reclean or just replace those white tall sponges in the red tray, I didn't see the photo before but I bet that's your problem.


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## Hmoobthor

okay okay okay.....

ur setup...hmm...IMO not so good.. I know you can do anything to a canister ..but if you don't know what to use..it will clogg and prevent water flow...

Mine 205 is strong as hell and I have it up to the lowest setting (lever)..

my setup...starting from the bottom up

1. Lots of fluval prefilter (to get all the debris and large particlue trap first..i full almost max)
2. middle one...fuval bio ball with matrix (half and half)
3. top: matrix fill good enought to have room for the fine filter ..fine filter sits ontop fo the blue holder ( I cut my own fine filter)


my last cleaning was on 7/10/12...yes i write down when i clean it because i can go even longer...its might be due in spring or next year


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## sundragon

Hey guys, Thank for all the suggestions!

1. I've set it up exactly the way the instructions say except I use purigen packs where the carbon goes and I'm substituting the Matrix for the bio rings. I think there may be too much matrix since it's a lot closer packed in than the 10 bio rings Fluval gives you(I hope that makes sense)

2. I'll use a 5G bucket and test with and without media...



cichnatic said:


> Another thing to try is running it without the intake strainer.


Didn't think of that but I have small fish - I checked it and it's clean - I'm running the stock one so it shouldn't be an issue - I also took out the little ball that sits inside to help with the flow. 



blink said:


> Check the white internal prefilter sponges, when my 206 slowed down they were the culprit. Crap seems to really build up in them and I found them hard to effectively clean.





NYREPS said:


> Are you using after market pads on the top tray? If so some after market pads doesn't fit right and a tad bit smaller And it gets sucked up on the hole on the tray cover ,,,try putting the bio max on the top tray.


I was using two (one before and one after the purigen) - they were filthy with black sludge. I cleaned them out but I think I may just remove them all together because it was ridiculously clogged. It's almost as if the first sponge isn't catching anything - I honestly think this filter design is flawed with a lot of bypass - *Do you guys have a lot of black sludge in your filters?*



blink said:


> Definitely clean, clean and reclean or just replace those white tall sponges in the red tray, I didn't see the photo before but I bet that's your problem.


It's funny you mention those - they were spotless! Literally, just wet!
For the first sponge in the filter they were too clean considering the rest of the fine sponges were so thick with sludge. This is why I think there is a lot of bypass happening - The second reason I'm considering another brand.


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## sundragon

HypnoticAquatic said:


> ok if your not getting much diff in flow now then it sounds like to much packed into the filter. test it by removing the polishing pad and possibly some media, but if you have sludge sitting in the bottom that isnt good an makes me belive your sponges are not cleaned enough. from my experiance the coarser ones *tall ones* might need a bit of waterpressure to really get some of the gunk out then the sponges in the tray are fine and mostly catch silt. ill see if i can get a vid for a reference of my 406 for ya to see the water flow.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orb95EY9Fjs
> alright i did a video of my fully cleaned 406 with full media but no polishing pad. as others have said id do the test with a 3g or 5g bucket and time it then multiply to an hour and see what your gph is, it will vary with each tank with polishingpads,heaters,head height, etc. but i bet your right in line with where mine is. i took of the nossle to show u in the video as your lilys do basicly the same as it without the nossle*no build up of pressure to force water* just nice gentle flow. do the test with a bucket first an let us know where ur at.
> 
> hope it hleps ya


That does help a lot! 

I think I've got about as much flow as you do - which makes me think this is what I should be expecting with more matrix.

The other thing is that the tall sponges are spotless, there was very little in them - no particles. I was doing quite a bit of squeezing - I have a feeling there is bypass happening.


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## sundragon

*Tested after cleaning*

5G bucket test:

Without media - 1:44 seconds to fill (to the internal line) = 173 GPH

With media (Biofoam, 2 trays of Matrix, polishing pads) - 1:53seconds to fill = 159 GPH

The bucket edge was about 6 below the position of the filter output on the tank so the tank numbers will be a little less.

I should have done the test before I cleaned 

I'll am going to do this again in a few weeks when it's dirty and I add the Purigen packs back... Ugh


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## blink

sundragon said:


> It's funny you mention those - they were spotless! Literally, just wet!
> For the first sponge in the filter they were too clean considering the rest of the fine sponges were so thick with sludge. This is why I think there is a lot of bypass happening - The second reason I'm considering another brand.


I don't mean to argue with you since your the guy on the sponge end of this conversation but I found with the tall sponges you have to soak them with water then hold by one end and swing/slap them against the side of the sink or bucket... a laundry sink helps here. Squeezing them got some gunk out but really didn't seem to get them clean for me.

Based on the colors in your photo they look like they have lots of embedded crud, mine looked like that and when I did the soak and swing routine there was gunk coming out of them for 10 minutes before I decided to swap them out for new ones. After new sponges my flow was restored, IMO it's worth a try, new sponges only set me back about $8 even at inflated Canadian prices.


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## sundragon

blink said:


> I don't mean to argue with you since your the guy on the sponge end of this conversation but I found with the tall sponges you have to soak them with water then hold by one end and swing/slap them against the side of the sink or bucket... a laundry sink helps here. Squeezing them got some gunk out but really didn't seem to get them clean for me.
> 
> Based on the colors in your photo they look like they have lots of embedded crud, mine looked like that and when I did the soak and swing routine there was gunk coming out of them for 10 minutes before I decided to swap them out for new ones. After new sponges my flow was restored, IMO it's worth a try, new sponges only set me back about $8 even at inflated Canadian prices.


Hey, it's not an argument  You make a good point - I'll elaborate on what I did - I had tank water I put the sponges in the water and squeezed them till they didn't give off any debris - which didn't take much squeezing. The fine polishing sponges were the exact opposite - They were thick with sludge and made the water black when I squeezed them.

*Edit* As I said above I will redo this test in a few weeks when the filter is properly dirty - it was a few weeks, at most since I cleaned it last. I took out the purigen so I could medicate the tank. The issue is cleaning the debris that seem to settle in the tank even though there's quite a bit of flow and the obviously low flow in the first video.


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## Bandit1200

In my opinion and experience, the polishing pads are the weakest link here. It doesn't take all that much to crud them up to the point of completely clogging your filter. You'd be amazed at the stuff that will clog them up that you can't even see in the water column.


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## sundragon

Bandit1200 said:


> In my opinion and experience, the polishing pads are the weakest link here. It doesn't take all that much to crud them up to the point of completely clogging your filter. You'd be amazed at the stuff that will clog them up that you can't even see in the water column.


One experiment would be to start servicing the filter monthly and replacing those pads to see if the flow keeps up.


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## Delexboarfoot

*Bent plate causing low flow.*

I may have just stumbled upon the cause of your woes. My 406 was suffering from similar problems. Whilst cleaning earlier to day, I noticed that the plastic impeller cover was warped into a U shape. I immersed the cover in some freshly boiled water to soften the plastic, then bent it back into roughly the correct shape. (Slightly over doing it so as it would sit tight when back in position.) and then run it under a cold tap to harden the plastic again. Instant improvement. I hope that this is helpfully to you.


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## sundragon

Delexboarfoot said:


> I may have just stumbled upon the cause of your woes. My 406 was suffering from similar problems. Whilst cleaning earlier to day, I noticed that the plastic impeller cover was warped into a U shape. I immersed the cover in some freshly boiled water to soften the plastic, then bent it back into roughly the correct shape. (Slightly over doing it so as it would sit tight when back in position.) and then run it under a cold tap to harden the plastic again. Instant improvement. I hope that this is helpfully to you.


Thanks! I'll take a look at that when I put the purgen back in the filter. Do you know what causes it?


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## Delexboarfoot

*Bent impeller cover.*

Possibly might be down to the filter running too hot. Low flow due to long a period between cleans causing motor to run hot. Tank getting too hot during summer. Maybe the cover just isn't man enough for the job. By the way when you put the cover in the hot water hold it by the clip so as this part of the cover does not get hot. 20 to 30 seconds in the hot water is all you need to soften the plastic.


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## sundragon

Here’s an update:

Stopped treating the tank so I had to replace the Seachem Purigen packs back in the filter. 



Delexboarfoot said:


> I may have just stumbled upon the cause of your woes. My 406 was suffering from similar problems. Whilst cleaning earlier to day, I noticed that the plastic impeller cover was warped into a U shape. I immersed the cover in some freshly boiled water to soften the plastic, then bent it back into roughly the correct shape. (Slightly over doing it so as it would sit tight when back in position.) and then run it under a cold tap to harden the plastic again. Instant improvement. I hope that this is helpfully to you.


Per the advice - I checked the impeller cover - It didn't look warped. I cleaned it pretty well and used a little petroleum jelly on the rubber so it would seat better in the case.




























I also removed the intake first long sponge because I have a theory there is quite a bit of bypass in this design and I'm going to test my theory: 

The long sponges were clean (I squeezed them out in a bucket of tank water) no leaves, no solid pieces yet the "bio" sponge was covered with small snails and quite dirty. Furthermore, I found leaves stuck in the Seachem Matrix in the middle trays and on the "bio" sponge but none in the first sponges - at least some leaves should have been caught in the first sponge if they are doing their job, so here goes...

The flow seems okay - I want to see how well the filter keeps the tank clean and how it looks on the inside after a month. I'll test flow before and after a cleaning.


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## seandelevan

Glad I saw this. My 306 is having similar issues. On my 75 I have the 306 and a 305. The 305 (and my 405 in another tank have very strong flow) but the 306 is weak like in your video. I cleaned everything aka took my garden hose to it, and the flow did not improve at all. So a few days later I took out all my floss and those polishing pads out. The only media in it is the ceramic rings and those tall pre filter pads......and still a pitiful flow. So should I take the pre filter pads out?

Edit: Oh the 306 is only 6 months old. While the 305 I have had up and running for probably 6 years.


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## longgonedaddy

sundragon said:


> I honestly think this filter design is flawed with a lot of bypass


 
While I don't have the low flow problem you have, I do have a tremendous amount of particles settling in the aquarium, more than any other filter I have ever had. I agree with you that there is a lot of bypass with this filter.


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## Delexboarfoot

seandelevan said:


> Glad I saw this. My 306 is having similar issues. On my 75 I have the 306 and a 305. The 305 (and my 405 in another tank have very strong flow) but the 306 is weak like in your video. I cleaned everything aka took my garden hose to it, and the flow did not improve at all. So a few days later I took out all my floss and those polishing pads out. The only media in it is the ceramic rings and those tall pre filter pads......and still a pitiful flow. So should I take the pre filter pads out?
> 
> Edit: Oh the 306 is only 6 months old. While the 305 I have had up and running for probably 6 years.


On the 305, is the design of the impeller cover different to the 306? As I understand it ( I may be wrong ), the design of the impeller "well" is different.


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## Delexboarfoot

sundragon said:


> Per the advice - I checked the impeller cover - It didn't look warped. I cleaned it pretty well and used a little petroleum jelly on the rubber so it would seat better in the case.


Forgive me for saying so fella, but that cover does not look all that flat to me. Does it rock from side to side when you press down on the sides away from the hinge and clip?

PS. Given up fiddling with mine. Flow had gone low again today, when I checked the impeller cover was out of shape again. I think this is a design fault, the cover being secured at only two points. In all other filters that I have had in the past that cover is held VERY firmly in place. I brought this filter because of the amount of time I was spending servicing my two ancient Sera 900s. I'm spending more and more time faffing around with the 406. Nufs e nuf. I'm going for a Ehiem Pro 600.


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## sundragon

seandelevan said:


> Glad I saw this. My 306 is having similar issues. On my 75 I have the 306 and a 305. The 305 (and my 405 in another tank have very strong flow) but the 306 is weak like in your video. I cleaned everything aka took my garden hose to it, and the flow did not improve at all. So a few days later I took out all my floss and those polishing pads out. The only media in it is the ceramic rings and those tall pre filter pads......and still a pitiful flow. So should I take the pre filter pads out?
> 
> Edit: Oh the 306 is only 6 months old. While the 305 I have had up and running for probably 6 years.


I'm not going tell you what to do, I'm just testing a hypothesis  FWIW, I removed the long pad that's farthest away from the stack of trays (along the wall of the canister). I left the one closer to slow the flow trying to bypass into the trays so it flows down and back up through the stack of trays.



longgonedaddy said:


> While I don't have the low flow problem you have, I do have a tremendous amount of particles settling in the aquarium, more than any other filter I have ever had. I agree with you that there is a lot of bypass with this filter.


Yup, my 30 gallon with an Aquaclear 50 had far less debris, this is a 57 gallon with a filter that's far more powerful. I had almost gotten used to it until I was looking at old photos and I recalled never having debris on the leaves. It makes it look like I have a BBA outbreak until I shake the leaves and it moves into the water column a day after a 50% water change… 



Delexboarfoot said:


> Forgive me for saying so fella, but that cover does not look all that flat to me. Does it rock from side to side when you press down on the sides away from the hinge and clip?
> 
> PS. Given up fiddling with mine. Flow had gone low again today, when I checked the impeller cover was out of shape again. I think this is a design fault, the cover being secured at only two points. In all other filters that I have had in the past that cover is held VERY firmly in place. I brought this filter because of the amount of time I was spending servicing my two ancient Sera 900s. I'm spending more and more time faffing around with the 406. Nufs e nuf. I'm going for a Ehiem Pro 600.


It looked straight to me, it's hard to assess how flat it is because the cover has clips and protrusions that keep it from sitting flat on table to test. I will take it out again and take another look.

It didn't rock when I reinserted it from memory but I'll do a quick check and see if it rocks - I'm not a fan of having to heat and cool a piece of plastic with rubber over and over again - this sounds like a recipie to weaken the piece and structural failure.

That being said, if it's common issue then it's is a design flaw - How do these guys keep making equipment over 20 years and can't get stuff like this right? It's not like rocket science or brain surgery, it's a water pump in a canister... Sigh

This may be the last piece of Fluval equipment I purchase. Makes me think the ADA stainless steel filters are worth the millions they charge, LOL

I’m considering a Eheim 2217, SunSun, or a CFS-500 (they apparently fixed the flaws in version 2).


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## sundragon

Delexboarfoot said:


> Forgive me for saying so fella, but that cover does not look all that flat to me. Does it rock from side to side when you press down on the sides away from the hinge and clip?
> 
> PS. Given up fiddling with mine. Flow had gone low again today, when I checked the impeller cover was out of shape again. I think this is a design fault, the cover being secured at only two points. In all other filters that I have had in the past that cover is held VERY firmly in place. I brought this filter because of the amount of time I was spending servicing my two ancient Sera 900s. I'm spending more and more time faffing around with the 406. Nufs e nuf. I'm going for a Ehiem Pro 600.


Well, Sir, I stand corrected 

The cover was warped - it rocked from side to side when I pressed down. I took it out, boiled some water, dipped and bent it in the reverse way. I replaced and tested the flow with a 5-gallon bucket.

1:41 seconds - 178 GPH, better than before (159 GPH) even without media (173 GPH), LOL 

This is a design flaw or a quality control flaw if it's happening with other people's filters. I service my filter every 2 months so there should be no reason for it to run "hot" enough to warp this piece. 

Finally, continuous heating and reshaping will weakening the plastic and cause failure - which catastrophic if it's running and the impeller gets impacted by a piece.

I'm thinking Fluval may intend this to be a part that needs to be replaced every couple of months at $15? http://www.amazon.com/Fluval-306-40...741&sr=1-1&keywords=fluval+406+impeller+cover

Now back to my hypothesis of bypass - I need time to see if there is detritus settling on the plants over the next few weeks.


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## Delexboarfoot

Found this one.

http://www.fluvalparts.com/servlet/the-915/well-cover-306-406/Detail

Bit cheaper at $9.99.

Haven't found one on this side of the pond yet.

Think I'll stick with the Ehiem idea.

Still, happy to of been of help.

Now don't think that it has anything to do with overheating. my tank certainly has not overheated in the last week. Just not man enough for the job.

Have just complained to Hagen in fairly short manner. sent them a link to this thread and expressed my displeasure at having to replace my filter after only 9 months. Will keep you posted.


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## Mostro

Delexboarfoot said:


> Have just complained to Hagen in fairly short manner. sent them a link to this thread and expressed my displeasure at having to replace my filter after only 9 months. Will keep you posted.


I was looking at one of these as well (actually, a 306) but am rethinking the purchase if the cover constantly deforms and reduces flow as a result. Please let us know what you hear back from Hagen and good luck.


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## OVT

$2 @ PetSmart ($3 for other models)
I got a 404 from my uncle several years ago and the filter has been sitting in my garage. Just found it again last night and was going through the parts list as I'm thinking of using it as a secondary filter.

If you check PetSmart, they have a bunch of Fluval replacement parts for ridiculously low prices, I wonder why...


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## Mostro

OVT said:


> $2 @ PetSmart ($3 for other models)
> I got a 404 from my uncle several years ago and the filter has been sitting in my garage. Just found it again last night and was going through the parts list as I'm thinking of using it as a secondary filter.
> 
> If you check PetSmart, they have a bunch of Fluval replacement parts for ridiculously low prices, I wonder why...


Great link. These look to be parts for the 04 and 05 series, I wonder how many (if any) are common with the 06 lineup.


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## Delexboarfoot

Well I bit the bullet today and went and brought a Ehiem Pro 3 600. Had to wait a week for the shop to get fresh stock after the Christmas/New year break. I like to buy from a shop rather than the net. If anything should go bandit it's so much easier to sort. Plus, of course, your local aquarium supplier needs your support and you need your local aquarium supplier.

Have heard nothing back from Hagen.

The conversation when I made my purchase went like this:

Shopkeeper: "what ho?"

Me: "Did you put a Pro 3 600 aside for me?" 

"Certainty did Fella. That'll be 200 notes please. Are you sure you need a 600? What are you running now?"

"406. Had all sorts of problems. Have you had any experience of them?"

"Won't have *insert expletive of choice* Fluval in my shop. No end of aggro. Can't get any parts. when you can get parts they cost stupid money" (his words not mine).

"You have parts for this one?"

"Got a full range of parts in stock. You won't be needing them though. Not unless you manage to break something."

200 down. 1 filter up. Hay ho.

The parts situation in The States may be different. But over here they are rarer than rocking horse poo. 

Will keep you posted.


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## sundragon

Hahaha, congratulations! it's the reverse here in the states, and we have more Fluval/ Hagan than fish and very little Eheim in shops unless they are special order. I bought the Fluval in a LFS for the same reasons as you. 

I'm still testing my theory of bypass and detritus making it back into the tank... Thus far it looks like it's working but I need to wait till I get to the two month time to service the filter. I've been doing 50%water changes every 3 days (for an unrelated reason) so I can't tell if it's the filter or the W/C. 

Please keep me up on the 600. 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD


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## jbrady33

Weird, I have a 406 on a 36 gallon bow, lots of flow, tons of surface movement, tank clears fast. Have trays packed with all the stock media, plus purigen and dish scrubbies. and I have a sponge prefilter!

I did try to use a lily pipe style outlet once, flow/movement dropped way off. Put the stock outlet back and saw immediate return to high flow (with mollies/platies nose into the current playing). Maybe these filters are not so tolerant of changes/additions to the outflow side


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## sundragon

jbrady33 said:


> Weird, I have a 406 on a 36 gallon bow, lots of flow, tons of surface movement, tank clears fast. Have trays packed with all the stock media, plus purigen and dish scrubbies. and I have a sponge prefilter!
> 
> I did try to use a lily pipe style outlet once, flow/movement dropped way off. Put the stock outlet back and saw immediate return to high flow (with mollies/platies nose into the current playing). Maybe these filters are not so tolerant of changes/additions to the outflow side


You make a good point - I thought of that but the lily pipe has a larger opening than the stock output - I can take a picture comparing the two. I haven't changed the tube size either - I did do away with the awful Fluval tubing which actually reduces flow by design.


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## sundragon

Here are the pictures comparing the lily pipe to the stock Fluval output:




























The intake is stock - I decided to stick with that because it's one less thing to mess with and disappears against the black background.

The tank runs at 76º F- I had it up to 80º F when I was treating ich but that shouldn't warp the impeller cover.


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## Rev2eight

I've got lily pipes on my 306 and it flows out slow like that as well. I figure it was just the design of the pipe that made it appear like that. I also had switch back to the stock inlet because the filter was noticeably noisier with the lily pipe one. :icon_mad:


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## sundragon

Rev2eight said:


> I've got lily pipes on my 306 and it flows out slow like that as well. I figure it was just the design of the pipe that made it appear like that. I also had switch back to the stock inlet because the filter was noticeably noisier with the lily pipe one. :icon_mad:


Sorry to hear that. To Fluval's credit my filter has been dead silent regardless of what intake or exhaust I've used. I used the lily glass intake in the past but I accidentally tally broke it when I was rearranging the tank a while back. 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD


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## Delexboarfoot

This morning I installed the the Ehiem.

First impressions: Build quality is if a VERY high standard. Design is by someone who knows what he's doing. Parts and filter media are designed to last, not be replaced. Oh and the impeller cover looks like it could hold in a port hole on a submarine. 

I have plumbed it in using my existing Fluval hosing, which I found to be a good snug fit, I used the hose clip that came with the Ehiem to secure it to the hose connector of the filter. Looks good, will keep a close eye on it for a week or so in case of problems. My reasons for using the Fluval hosing are:
1. It is extremely flexible and will not kink. 
2. The brackets that mount it to the side of the tank prevent the weight of the water filled hose from pulling fittings such as lily pipes out of position.
3. the only joints outside of the tank are where the pipes connect to the pump head. (reduced risk of leaks).
4. Its does not seem to get contaminated and clogged in the way that "standard" hoses do and so needs much less cleaning.
5. It has a larger bore than the Ehiem pipes and so should not cause any flow problems.
6. I wanted to be able to directly compare the output of the Ehiem to the Fluval.
7. The Ehiem hoses and fittings are green. No actually they are GREEN. (for the correct effect you need to SHOUT that last GREEN loudly, No louder than that. Louder!)

Flow is at least double that of the Fluval, possibly more. Of course it's all brand spanky new at the moment.

So how does it filter water? 

First of all there is NO bypass. None, nada, zip.

Water enters the top of the filter and is drawn into the Bottom of the top tray, which is sealed off from the other 4 media trays, it then flows against gravity and though a coarse "pre filter" until it can flow down a triangular channel in the corner of the filter box, the opening of which is above the pre filter. (gravity trap, designed to take out any large/medium solids).

Once the water is at the bottom of the filter box it enters a void below the bottom media basket before being drawn very slowly, due to the large cross section of the media baskets, upward. (another gravity trap)

There are 4 media baskets. The bottom 2 are filled with "MECHpro", short sections of small gauge ribbed plastic tubing, designed to trap medium/small solids. These are completely reusable and washable. The third basket is filled with "bioMECH". Cramatic media designed to trap small solids and to provide some biological filtration. This is also washable. The last basket is filled with "SUBSTAT", a cramatic biological media, topped off with a large polishing pad. The biological media does not require replacement. It is recommended, by the instructions, that the polishing pad be replaced rather than cleaned. But you can clean it if you need to.

All in all I think that the Ehiem is going to work out much cheaper than the Fluval in the long term. (apart from the fact that it actually works)

Oh yes. it only does 16 Watts if electricity and no you can not hear it AT ALL.

So apart from the GREEN hosing and fittings.

Whats not to like?


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## diamondd7711

I have a 406 as well and I was having flow problems, to the point there was almost none. I completely took the filter apart and cleaned as you have, still low flow. Then I found a similar post and discovered that the impellers on the fluval are very sensitive to wear. The blades on mine were just very slightly rounded on the corners. Replaced impeller, works great again.


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## sundragon

diamondd7711 said:


> I have a 406 as well and I was having flow problems, to the point there was almost none. I completely took the filter apart and cleaned as you have, still low flow. Then I found a similar post and discovered that the impellers on the fluval are very sensitive to wear. The blades on mine were just very slightly rounded on the corners. Replaced impeller, works great again.


How long had you owned the filter for this to happen?


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## sundragon

Delexboarfoot said:


> This morning I installed the the Ehiem.
> 
> Whats not to like?


Congratulations! I'm jelly 

I haven't seen the "600" model in the states - what's the SKU/part number so I can check the prices?


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## Delexboarfoot

sundragon said:


> Congratulations! I'm jelly
> 
> I haven't seen the "600" model in the states - what's the SKU/part number so I can check the prices?


2075. is the number on the box.

Manual can be downloaded from here

http://www.trilbytropicals.com/EHEIMPARTSHEETS.HTM

Same site sells them (it's an American site) $289.99. That's not to say that's the best price.

http://www.shop.trilbytropicals.com/category.sc?categoryId=3 

600 refers to; 600 liters. You guys still use old money, that's probably why it don't come up on a search for 600. It's described as; 

Eheim 2075 Pro 3 Canister Filter.

Beware when buying! Make sure the one you get comes with media. Over wise lots of extra pennys.


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## Delexboarfoot

diamondd7711 said:


> that the impellers on the fluval are very sensitive to wear.


Amongst many other problems.:icon_smil


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## Delexboarfoot

Delexboarfoot said:


> Amongst many other problems.:icon_smil


I'm sorry. That was rude of me. Thanks for your input.:smile:


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## sundragon

Delexboarfoot said:


> I'm sorry. That was rude of me. Thanks for your input.:smile:


It's all good :red_mouth I realize you were poking fun.


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## diamondd7711

sundragon said:


> How long had you owned thin the filter for this to happen?


I had the filter for about 6 months...but the bag in the filter holding the carbon media had opened and pieces of it were pulled through the impeller and blown into the spray bar. I think that is what messed up my impeller.


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## Delexboarfoot

Got a response from Hagen today. 

They sent me a link to a form asking how happy I was with their response to my inquiry. 

There has been no response.

There has been no inquiry.

There has been a complaint.

Filled out form in as negative way as possible.

Awaiting sensible response.


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## sundragon

Delexboarfoot said:


> 2075. is the number on the box.
> 
> Manual can be downloaded from here
> 
> http://www.trilbytropicals.com/EHEIMPARTSHEETS.HTM
> 
> Same site sells them (it's an American site) $289.99. That's not to say that's the best price.
> 
> http://www.shop.trilbytropicals.com/category.sc?categoryId=3
> 
> 600 refers to; 600 liters. You guys still use old money, that's probably why it don't come up on a search for 600. It's described as;
> 
> Eheim 2075 Pro 3 Canister Filter.
> 
> Beware when buying! Make sure the one you get comes with media. Over wise lots of extra pennys.


Ours is the 160G, 600L makes it sound more impressive until you do the conversion 

$256.00 at one LFS (comprable to Amazon @ $234.00) quite a bit more than the CFS-500 and the SUNSUN, but it's an Eheim.

What size are your hoses?


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## Delexboarfoot

sundragon said:


> What size are your hoses?


The supplied hoses (with the Ehiem) are 16mm internal 22mm external. Mine is currently running with the hoses supplied with the 406.


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## sundragon

Delexboarfoot said:


> The supplied hoses (with the Ehiem) are 16mm internal 22mm external. Mine is currently running with the hoses supplied with the 406.


Same size, that helps!


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## Delexboarfoot

sundragon said:


> Same size, that helps!


Err. No. The Fluval tubes that I am using are as supplied with the 406, not conventional filter tubing but the ribbed stuff. They are a good but looser fit than the Ehiem tubing as provided by Ehiem. Using the tube clip as provided by Ehiem I am unable to pull them off. 

I am not sure that I should recommend this as a course of action as yet as it is early days and problems may still develop. 

From one of your earlier posts I see that you do not use the Fluval tubing as it "reduces flow by design". (I feel you my be right). 

I would double check your hose sizes if this is likely to cause you an issue.


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## sundragon

diamondd7711 said:


> I had the filter for about 6 months...but the bag in the filter holding the carbon media had opened and pieces of it were pulled through the impeller and blown into the spray bar. I think that is what messed up my impeller.


Have you had any issues since you replaced the impeller?


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## sundragon

Delexboarfoot said:


> Err. No. The Fluval tubes that I am using are as supplied with the 406, not conventional filter tubing but the ribbed stuff. They are a good but looser fit than the Ehiem tubing as provided by Ehiem. Using the tube clip as provided by Ehiem I am unable to pull them off.
> 
> I am not sure that I should recommend this as a course of action as yet as it is early days and problems may still develop.
> 
> From one of your earlier posts I see that you do not use the Fluval tubing as it "reduces flow by design". (I feel you my be right).
> 
> I would double check your hose sizes if this is likely to cause you an issue.


Sorry, my bad - I'm using 5/8" clear aquarium tubing ~16-17mm equivalent.

I kept the Fluval tubing for the intake because it was an easy fix and disappears on the black background. I used to use the clear tubing with the lily intake till I broke it. The corrugated Fluval tubing is a crap magnet - it's flexible, and necessary if you use their intake plumbing but otherwise not optimal, IMO - smooth tubing is aqua dynamic.


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## sundragon

Just an update.

I serviced the filter today, along with my 50% water change.

A lot of debris in the bottom of the filter. This is a good thing, I want it to capture this stuff.

I noticed something when putting it back together, there isn't really a path for the water to go from the long sponges to the bio sponge at the bottom of the stack. There is a plastic wall that rises from the floor to keep everything stacked but no clear path to allow the water to enter the bio sponge and move up the column of baskets.

Can someone check this on their 405/406? I may have missed holes or something but I think this is why there is bypass, the water just goes where there's least resistance.

I didn't heat and bend the impeller cover back, I just cleaned it - I also cleaned the place it sits in the filter head. It was a little wobbly, but I wanna see how well this works...

2:00 minutes to fill a 5 gallon bucket before cleaning
1:50 seconds to fill a 5 gallon bucket after cleaning

Previously I had: 1:41 seconds - 178 GPH.

I hypothesize the impeller cover warping has something to do with this. 

Well - If I can't DIY fix the issues, I'm going to put this on CL and sell it and replace it as soon as I can afford another brand that performs better.


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## BoxxerBoyDrew

Hey Guys,

I just saw and read threw this thread, and I am very surprised to hear about the problems with the 406 filters! I have 1-204 and 2-205, and they are awesome!!! Very quiet, strong flow, easy to clean, so no complaints here! 

One thing I see different between the 204/205 and the 406 is the impeller cover! The cover on the ones I have are very hard clear acrylic, and they snap on both sides of the cover. On the first sponges (the tall ones in the plastic tray) the directions show to leave 1 side of the sponges sticking up above the tray. If I remember correctly it is the rear set. That is what keeps the water from bypassing them, because when I leave them sticking up like the directions say, when I go to clean the filter the next month the sponges are smashed down where they have been pressed down by the motor housing. I am not sure if the 406 is designed the same way, so take this with a grain of salt! 

I am not trying to start anything here at all, but just trying to see if I can help! I really do hope Fluval isn't going cheap on us, since I have had my 204 for 7+ years now and truly love it! All I have ever had to do other than clean it was to replace the impeller last year, and I replace the tall sponges once a year too! That is it! I would 4 sure email or call Fluval and try to figure out a fix to your solution!!! Most manufactures I have dealt with are more than happy to get things worked out with their customers, because in this day and age a unhappy customer can spread the word to A LOT of people and quickly too! 

So anyway BEST OF LUCK in getting this thing fixed! 
Drew


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## sundragon

BoxxerBoyDrew said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> I just saw and read threw this thread, and I am very surprised to hear about the problems with the 406 filters! I have 1-204 and 2-205, and they are awesome!!! Very quiet, strong flow, easy to clean, so no complaints here!
> 
> So anyway BEST OF LUCK in getting this thing fixed!
> Drew


Hey Drew, 

Thanks for the suggestions. I just did the trick with the sponges when I serviced it this time. Let's see how that works between this service and the next one. 

Does the impeller cover for the 20x series work with the 406?

Have you taken a look at the bottom of the canister to see if there's a channel for water to flow? It may be different on the 10x/20x series of filters. 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2


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## Westone

Sundragon, how did this turn out in the end? I just bought and installed a 406, and I am not happy with it. The flow is fine, but there seems to be a lot of bypass. Its been running on my 90g for 4 days, and it is not clearing large particles from the water. I'm about to take it apart and see if there is any evidence of it filtering anything out, or anything installed incorrectly leading to bypass.


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## sundragon

It's a POS. Never buying another Fluval product. I had their Aquaclear 50 HOB, which was wonderful and i thought the 406 would be good. The second hand Eheim I had bought broke last minute and I pretty much bought the Fluval on a whim. It is 1/2 the price I paid for it on Amazon fwiw. I've had to replace the main valve unit when it broke as I was trying to remove the tubes to swap the CO2 diffuser - if you're using injected CO2 with an inline diffuser, purchase another valve in case. I had to Fedex mine from Amazon (great service though). 

Were I you, I would return it and purchase another brand. I'm considering something more powerful as this can't even keep the carpet clean of detritus the day I do a 50% water change and serviced the filter. It's really absurd. 

I would get an Eheim or if you really like Fluval, the fx-6 (which is overkill for my 57G)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Bsqrd

Just a quick idea. Is it possible to put the Fluval top (motor unit) on backwards? On my Fluval the is some writing on the bottom portion that contains the sponges etc, and this writing continues on the top. That is how I know I have them together correctly but I have never tried to reverse the top. Perhaps you have reversed them and impeller is not over the opening in top tray? Flow would be greatly affected.


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## sundragon

Haha, thanks, but it's on properly. The writing is visible. I don't even think one can attach it reverse. The impeller cover is probably not sealing but the overall design is flawed as water doesn't have a channel from intake to output like the Eheim Classic and FX which force the water through all the media. Judging by the detritus pattern on the inside, a good amount bypasses the media stack. 
Lesson learned 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mthomas356

sundragon said:


> Haha, thanks, but it's on properly. The writing is visible. I don't even think one can attach it reverse. The impeller cover is probably not sealing but the overall design is flawed as water doesn't have a channel from intake to output like the Eheim Classic and FX which force the water through all the media. Judging by the detritus pattern on the inside, a good amount bypasses the media stack.
> Lesson learned
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I have had a 305, 406 and recently added a fx6 and have had great success with all. The design is definitely not flawed.


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## sundragon

Respectfully, the fx is totally different from the 06 series in ways that make it superior. 

I'm glad you've had a great experience, I've obviously made an effort by this string to make the filter work. If someone asks me after reading all of the above, I'm going to give my experience and opinion 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Westone

I have to agree. I'm glad many people have had a good experience with the 406. I read many positive reviews or I would not have bought one myself. I'm no engineer, but the design seems like a great one. Unfortunately, it's not cleaning the water in my tank. The flow is great, but after 5 days now there are still copious amounts of visible particles in the water.

I talked to the store where I bought mine today, and I'm returning it as soon as I get my Magnum back in service.


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