# Cheap, Reef Powerful LED Lighting System?



## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

A cheap and powerful LED light system. Everybody's dream, right?

This week I found out about an online site, "AquaStyle" that sells relatively cheap LED light fixtures and parts. 

So far, I have found that they can grow corals: http://www.3reef.com/forums/led-aquarium-lighting/diy-kits-aquastyle-online-china-112497.html

What do you all think about these on freshwater tanks?


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## WingoAgency (Jan 10, 2006)

You need 6,700K for plant growth. Plants do not do good with reef lighting.

I tested both warmer white and cooler blue on a planted tank.

The experiments were conducted in a Fluval Spec tank with all same 6W LED power and 60 degree lens

Blue will burn plants along the DIRECT path of the light in days; not remembering what happen to the rest of the tank.
12,000K will burn plants along the DIRECT path of the light in weeks but the rest of the tank grow fast while plant color are light green
6,700K will burn surface plants in months but the rest of the tank is growing fast and solid green

Of course setting the light higher or removing the lens will yield very different results, but that's not for this discussion.

To clarify better, please read on.
It's the intensity, not the color, that caused the sunburn. When we apply the same amount of energy to the LED, the bluer white LEDs yields higher PAR than the warmer ones. 
Care must be taken because our minds may just think about the wattage applied(that how's we buy lights-6W LED, 60W LEDs, 54W T5, 150W MH...) and did not take into the consideration of that the different colors yield very different PAR values.


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

WingoAgency said:


> You need 6,700K for plant growth. Plants do not do good with reef lighting.
> 
> I tested both warmer white and cooler blue on a planted tank.
> 
> ...


Yes, but I won't the "white" LEDs they give as an option instead of the blue work? I thought white LEDs were some where in the plant acceptable 10,000k range.


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## redfishsc (Aug 29, 2010)

I've grown lots of freshwater plants and even terrestrial plants (basil, cilantro, mint, especially) under a 50/50 mix of cool white and royal blue LEDs with no issues that I ever would attribute to the light. 


I don't know for sure what the color temp of that combo specifically is but it's definitely in the 10-14K range. 


But in general the reef lights that have all that blue will look really weird over a planted tank. 

We need to ask these companies to produce all-white versions.

Or just DIY like all the cool people do


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

redfishsc said:


> I've grown lots of freshwater plants and even terrestrial plants (basil, cilantro, mint, especially) under a 50/50 mix of cool white and royal blue LEDs with no issues that I ever would attribute to the light.
> 
> 
> I don't know for sure what the color temp of that combo specifically is but it's definitely in the 10-14K range.
> ...


They do! :icon_smil Look at their "options".


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## Noahma (Oct 18, 2009)

the 10,000k would do just fine, I find that a good mix of 6500-6700 / 10,000 brings out the colors best though. you might ask if they happen to carry the 6500 k LED's too.


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## HypnoticAquatic (Feb 17, 2010)

I will highly doubt it was the color that burnt the plants rather than the intinsity of light as any significant increase can sunburn a plant. i would like to see some real data on how the blue 420-460nm caused the damage and not the intinsity as i highly suspect. after they adjust to the light i have had no damage from being sunburnt from my (other) led.

is anyone getting that link to work? mines not... as for the light i personally want a adjustable one so i can dim the blue and white as i wish as everyone likes to see different kelven on there lights.


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

Noahma said:


> the 10,000k would do just fine, I find that a good mix of 6500-6700 / 10,000 brings out the colors best though. you might ask if they happen to carry the 6500 k LED's too.


I am not sure if I am going to order from them... It will really all depend on if they will grow plants well.



HypnoticAquatic said:


> I will highly doubt it was the color that burnt the plants rather than the intinsity of light as any significant increase can sunburn a plant. i would like to see some real data on how the blue 420-460nm caused the damage and not the intinsity as i highly suspect. after they adjust to the light i have had no damage from being sunburnt from my (other) led.
> 
> is anyone getting that link to work? mines not... as for the light i personally want a adjustable one so i can dim the blue and white as i wish as everyone likes to see different kelven on there lights.


Sorry about the link... I have had problems with their site on and off. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. :icon_frow


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## HypnoticAquatic (Feb 17, 2010)

i bet they will grown plants just fine, expecially if they are working for corals. im curious on them now to i do like units that are already housed to protect them but i think i could make something like that work. has anyone made there own houseing units for them or just keeping them exposed?


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

The linked fixture is just a _kit of parts_. You must assemble everything, including gluing on the LEDs, and all the wiring and soldering.

Most people don't know how to do that, so unfortunately I wouldn't call this a realization of "everybody's dream".

But if you have the skills to assemble this kit, then you also have the skills to build whatever you want; using cheap parts available from this vendor or many others.

Although if you're just more comfortable with a kit, I see no reason why they wouldn't substitute in 6,500K LEDs on request; which they sell for the same price as the 10,000K's.


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## Dragonfish (Apr 28, 2011)

I just emailed them about a dimmable 24 LED kit with all 6500K LEDs. If they'll do it I'll build it and post a review. I did my own DIY LED fixture for my reef tank so I have something to compare it to.


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## Dragonfish (Apr 28, 2011)

Yep, his name is Ray and he'd be happy to make a freshwater version. I'm waiting on pricing for a 24 LED version sans heatsink.


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## reybie (Jun 7, 2007)

I might be interested in that too. I want to provide my own heatsink.


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

Dragonfish said:


> Yep, his name is Ray and he'd be happy to make a freshwater version. I'm waiting on pricing for a 24 LED version sans heatsink.


I heard from other various forums that they were pretty cooperative. Thanks for taking the initial dive! I look foreward to your review.

Would you be using this to actually grow the plants, or as just an add on for aesthetic purposes?


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## reybie (Jun 7, 2007)

I'll be using mine to replace the bulbs in a Tek fixture. I think it will be a pretty good DIY.


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

reybie said:


> I'll be using mine to replace the bulbs in a Tek fixture. I think it will be a pretty good DIY.


Very! To replace a Tek? You are gunna need lotsa LEDs my freind! :icon_surp


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## reybie (Jun 7, 2007)

I think it'll be OK. I'm only running 2 bulbs of the 4 in it anyway, we'll see how this goes.


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## Dragonfish (Apr 28, 2011)

I'm going to slap a row of 24 on this heatsink to replace a single T5HO

http://www.amazon.com/80-25-5013-T-SLOTTED-EXTRUSION-1220mm/dp/B001F0LV9I


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

reybie said:


> I think it'll be OK. I'm only running 2 bulbs of the 4 in it anyway, we'll see how this goes.


That would be really cool. If all goes well, I will probably copy you, as I am looking for a replacement for my single strip T5HO.



Dragonfish said:


> I'm going to slap a row of 24 on this heatsink to replace a single T5HO
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/80-25-5013-T-SLOTTED-EXTRUSION-1220mm/dp/B001F0LV9I


Oh, okay. Makes sense. That will be the tank only source of lighting, right?


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

I don't believe you can just slap a random number of LEDs on a heatsink and expect to get light in a usable range of PAR for a planted tank. With the later Cree LEDs it is easy to get 4 times too much light that way, too much to be able to dim them down to an appropriate PAR. Your first step should be to figure our how many of what LEDs spaced how far apart at what height above the tank will give you a chance to have good lighting. It isn't impossible to do. And, a website that is selling kits like this should also be providing the information necessary to judge how much light you will get with that kit.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

A mix of 6000K, 8000 and 10K would look good and also grow the plants well, but watch out and get dimmers on these suckers.............

They pout out very intense light, the bridgelux are quite good, a bit cheaper than the Cree, but not a lot different over all in cost after it is all said and done.

Get a dimmer, make sure you have good even spread. That's where the real DEVIL is with good even lighting and spread with LED's. You do not want a case where you have a red spot and then a blue and then a white spot in the color scheme!

You want nice even color and be able to adjust the colors to suit what you want, the PAR you are after, and even spread over the surface area.

20 x 3W cree/s bridgelux are way too much for most planted tanks, they can even toast some corals.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

RipariumGuy said:


> That would be really cool. If all goes well, I will probably copy you, as I am looking for a replacement for my single strip T5HO.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, okay. Makes sense. That will be the tank only source of lighting, right?


I'd only use 5-6 at most to do the replacement and then at 16" or higher.
Now...you can use say 10.........and then with a dimmer dim them down.......this will give nice even spread, but less PAR, which is what you want for most planted applications.

So say you used 10-12, and had a mix of 6000, 8000, and 10K Cree's, each with a dimmer, or ran the entire group with a single dimmer switch/line....this would give you a good set up.

You'd use much less energy/the same vs running say 5 x 3 W vs 10X3w at say 30% power. And it'd look better, have a better spread.


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## WingoAgency (Jan 10, 2006)

The over all color temperature to our eyes have only little meaning to the growth of plants. It's what spectrum of wavelengths the plants received that matters. To our eyes, 2 very different spectral mix can yield the same feeling of 14,000K!!!
Even with my 15 years in the industry I got messed up one time forgetting that point when decided to build something specific for discus.

Anyway, plants still grow even at royal blue only system but the color of the leaves will change. Ask any CA "happy plants" growers who use grow light-they can attest to that.  For aquatic plants, you will need some red, and some blue to have a proper color and proper growth of the plant.


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## WingoAgency (Jan 10, 2006)

RipariumGuy said:


> Yes, but I won't the "white" LEDs they give as an option instead of the blue work? I thought white LEDs were some where in the plant acceptable 10,000k range.


Both BridgeLux and Epi have warmer color LED, you can request for them.

If maximum growth is not your concern, 10,000K works too.


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

plantbrain said:


> A mix of 6000K, 8000 and 10K would look good and also grow the plants well, but watch out and get dimmers on these suckers.............
> 
> They pout out very intense light, the bridgelux are quite good, a bit cheaper than the Cree, but not a lot different over all in cost after it is all said and done.
> 
> ...


I would have the fixture hung about two feet over a 40g breeder riparium setup, so that should help with the spread. 



plantbrain said:


> I'd only use 5-6 at most to do the replacement and then at 16" or higher.
> Now...you can use say 10.........and then with a dimmer dim them down.......this will give nice even spread, but less PAR, which is what you want for most planted applications.
> 
> So say you used 10-12, and had a mix of 6000, 8000, and 10K Cree's, each with a dimmer, or ran the entire group with a single dimmer switch/line....this would give you a good set up.
> ...


Whoa, hold on here... On the reef forum I linked to they were growing SPS corals (in a 90g) with 40 LEDs and 4 T5's. So wouldn't I need more then 20 LEDs to grow low light plants? I am a reef noob, so I am kinda just guessing here. 

Are they really that powerful? I wasn't under that impression when I was reading around. From what you are saying, I am gathering that 20 LEDs is equivelant to a single T5HO light fixture? That sound about right?

If these are so powerful, and yet so cheap, why are they not more popular in the hobby?


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

WingoAgency said:


> Both BridgeLux and Epi have warmer color LED, you can request for them.
> 
> If maximum growth is not your concern, 10,000K works too.


I was thinking a combination of 6,500k and 10,000k. What should work I am assuming?


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## Dragonfish (Apr 28, 2011)

Hoppy said:


> I don't believe you can just slap a random number of LEDs on a heatsink and expect to get light in a usable range of PAR for a planted tank. With the later Cree LEDs it is easy to get 4 times too much light that way, too much to be able to dim them down to an appropriate PAR. Your first step should be to figure our how many of what LEDs spaced how far apart at what height above the tank will give you a chance to have good lighting. It isn't impossible to do. And, a website that is selling kits like this should also be providing the information necessary to judge how much light you will get with that kit.


No, but having actually built a reef quality fixture and first hand experience helps. Spacing these out 2" apart across a 48" tank should pretty well approximate a single T5HO. These are hardly "later Cree" LEDs. They're not bad but I'm not going to melt anything with these. They should be able to be dimmed down to at least 30% if these drivers are even reasonably decent and if I leave off the optics it will reduce intensity as well. I know you know a lot about these, I've read your threads. I also think you are probably overthinking things a bit. This is a cheap quick LED build, we really don't need to graph out the estimated PAR spread to know it will grow plants.


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## WingoAgency (Jan 10, 2006)

HypnoticAquatic said:


> I will highly doubt it was the color that burnt the plants rather than the intinsity of light as any significant increase can sunburn a plant. i would like to see some real data on how the blue 420-460nm caused the damage and not the intinsity as i highly suspect. after they adjust to the light i have had no damage from being sunburnt from my (other) led.
> 
> is anyone getting that link to work? mines not... as for the light i personally want a adjustable one so i can dim the blue and white as i wish as everyone likes to see different kelven on there lights.


Sorry the way I present the examples sound misleading without careful explanations.

It's the intensity, not the color, that caused the sunburn. When we apply the same amount of energy to the LED, the bluer white LEDs yields higher PAR than the warmer ones. I was trying to warn the OP that when using REEF LIGHTS(such as those MR16 bulbs), care must be taken because our minds may just think about the wattage applied and did not take into the consideration of the color.


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## HypnoticAquatic (Feb 17, 2010)

WingoAgency said:


> Sorry the way I present the examples sound misleading without careful explanations.
> 
> It's the intensity, not the color, that caused the sunburn. When we apply the same amount of energy to the LED, the bluer white LEDs yields higher PAR than the warmer ones. I was trying to warn the OP that when using REEF LIGHTS(such as those MR16 bulbs), care must be taken because our minds may just think about the wattage applied and did not take into the consideration of the color.


 
yea without any explination it does sound misleading so i wanted to clear that up. the output of par is what is really useful is what should be used imo for rating lights. when changing over to bright lights it is best if u can do it slowly over a few weeks or you do risk the chance for sun bleaching, even corals have to adjust if they arent used to the output of light.


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## WingoAgency (Jan 10, 2006)

RipariumGuy said:


> I was thinking a combination of 6,500k and 10,000k. What should work I am assuming?


That's a combination I like and in fact in most of my design and I think the plants will accept too. Using just 6,500K is too yellow, using just 10,000K the plants aren't too happy. I like the compromise.


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## HypnoticAquatic (Feb 17, 2010)

the plants can be "happy" with 10k just fine belive me i grow mine with just red an blue zero white and they grow retarded fast as long as they can use the spectrum 420-460nm blue and 640+ nm red they will grow fine with enough par its all about what we like to look at thus a kelvin rating shows what color we can see not what they can use. everyone seems to get hung up on kelven when its the par and spectrum the plants are after.


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

How many non-dimable LEDs would I need to provide low/medium light over a 40g breeder with the fixture about 2 feet over the tank? (So, about 2ft 14" above the substrate)


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## redfishsc (Aug 29, 2010)

HypnoticAquatic said:


> everyone seems to get hung up on kelven when its the par and spectrum the plants are after.



Agreed. I would love to see pics of your tank with only blue/red!

That being said, Kelvin temp is very useful for determining how the tank will look to our eye. Most of us prefer (from all I can tell) light in the 6500-8000K range, but when using multicolored LEDs, that goes way out the window. 

My array has (right now), 4200K, 5500K, 6500K, 15,000K white LEDs, and then red, royal blue, and cyan. 

The cyans suck. I thought they'd give color but they make my glass look hideous (makes the green in the glass 100000% worse). I'll be removing them soon and replacing them with warm whites (3000K).


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

Yeah, the colour temperature obsession is one of those weird things. I like blue because it's nice and crisp. Most fish colours pop well too. I hate the pink grow bulb look. Ill only add one if I have enough total light to cover up and pink it adds. The pink is nice to bring out reds though. 

Personally, I think more blue is better than more red. I hate when my plants get tall and thin, with the internode lengths stretching out. 

Redfish, would you use the extra colours in a build again, or just stick with the whites? With my fixture I can go from rather yellow to actinic using nw, ca and rb.


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## HypnoticAquatic (Feb 17, 2010)

here is my tank it looks like crap but im using it as my grow tank so i can sell off some plants so i can redo everything. with my 90w led it works great but it needs to be hung farther away for better spread but i just move it around until i get a new one. 

the second pic is a single 13w cfl that i use for night time viewing after my grow light is off. it shows that the plants will grow fine with just specific colors, with that said i do wish i had just a blue white combo as it is much more pleasing to the eye but thats not what i got that for i got it to grow plants and it does that very well. i would say a dimmer would be much more usefull for fine tuning the light level if u cant adjust the height or its just to bright. i now have grown a huge ammount of fiss font in a matter of months with just that light as well as all my other plants.


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## WingoAgency (Jan 10, 2006)

HypnoticAquatic said:


> here is my tank it looks like crap but im using it as my grow tank so i can sell off some plants so i can redo everything. with my 90w led it works great but it needs to be hung farther away for better spread but i just move it around until i get a new one.
> 
> the second pic is a single 13w cfl that i use for night time viewing after my grow light is off. it shows that the plants will grow fine with just specific colors, with that said i do wish i had just a blue white combo as it is much more pleasing to the eye but thats not what i got that for i got it to grow plants and it does that very well. i would say a dimmer would be much more usefull for fine tuning the light level if u cant adjust the height or its just to bright. i now have grown a huge ammount of fiss font in a matter of months with just that light as well as all my other plants.


Speak the truth now, do you grow more than just water plants with that UFO grow LED?:biggrin:


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## reybie (Jun 7, 2007)

Lol


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

RipariumGuy said:


> How many non-dimable LEDs would I need to provide low/medium light over a 40g breeder with the fixture about 2 feet over the tank? (So, about 2ft 14" above the substrate)


No thoughts?


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

RipariumGuy said:


> No thoughts?


Well... since you asked...

I don't like the use of constant current drivers. At least if you can't trim the current at all. They aren't forgiving, and if you screw up on the number of LEDs you use, you are SOL. At least if you can adjust the current, you can use a few extra LEDs and just run them at a lower current.

I think around 24-30 LEDs would be sufficient for a low-med light setup. You pretty much only need enough to get a decent spread. If you use less LEDs and optics you might not need enough LEDs to provide light, that they will also provide coverage. I hope that makes sense.

If you use optics (which at that height I think you'll want too) I would use pretty broad ones, like 60 degrees, or even 85. Just to limit spillage and not push the par too high. These are all just educated guesses here. I haven't run numbers or graphed the cone angles, etc.


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## reybie (Jun 7, 2007)

I have 14 CREEs that are mounted on a 29" heatsink that I will be hanging on my 90P, approximately the same size as a 40 breeder. I'm testing it out to see if I can get decent coverage, the LEDs have 65 degree optics on them so they're pretty focused, this is with a dimmable driver. I'm reusing the hanging cable for my Tek.

A PAR meter would be really useful right now.


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## redfishsc (Aug 29, 2010)

I have 14 Cree's over a "Half 40b". It's a 36" long tank but it's only 9" front/back (and only 9" tall so maybe a one-fourth 40b lol). 


14 Crees run at around 500-600mA gives me a solid med/high light level (50-70 micromols) on the bottom, but in a 40b you'd want to crank it up a little. 

I agree with jcgd---- I think roughly 25 LEDs would do you just fine, maybe only 20. Definitely use 40 degree optics if you are suspending it at 24" above the tank. Will drastically reduce light spill and make much better use of your light. 

And definitely find a loaner PAR meter if possible to "dial in". I recommend only dimmable drivers.


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## redfishsc (Aug 29, 2010)

jcgd said:


> Redfish, would you use the extra colours in a build again, or just stick with the whites? With my fixture I can go from rather yellow to actinic using nw, ca and rb.



I would ALWAYS add in a few blues if I am able to, with them on a separate dimmable driver. 


Reds are also a very good thing to have in there, with no optics. But ONLY if you have room/need for a 3rd string of dimmable LEDs for additional color dimmability/variability. 


Meaning this is how mine is set up (and I'll be modding it later to swap some cyans to warm whites). 

Most important string--- the whites (mix of neutral and cool white).

Second most important--- royal blues. 

Third string, if needed for more PAR or coverage---- warm whites and reds.


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## WingoAgency (Jan 10, 2006)

redfishsc said:


> I would ALWAYS add in a few blues if I am able to, with them on a separate dimmable driver.
> 
> 
> Reds are also a very good thing to have in there, with no optics. But ONLY if you have room/need for a 3rd string of dimmable LEDs for additional color dimmability/variability.
> ...


For color preference with planted tanks, I go the other way from yours. I will lower the blue side and add more green side.
And Let the white take care of the growth.


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## HypnoticAquatic (Feb 17, 2010)

why add more green when most green is refected off plants vs red/blue that is more used? just better for your viewing?


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## WingoAgency (Jan 10, 2006)

HypnoticAquatic said:


> why add more green when most green is refected off plants vs red/blue that is more used? just better for your viewing?


Just for viewing pleasure(color preference) especially with discus. That's what Amano did to his MH bulb, he added green to it.
Look at this pic of my discus tank, the left side is with more green and the right is with more blue. Note the color of the discus on the left red stands out more and metallic scales are electrified while the right side is all a muggy blend of blue and the red is washed out as well.








[/url] Flickr 上 WingoAgency 的 LED and Discus B IMG_2041[/IMG]

I don't have pic of the my planted tanks with blue, but I did try and the color of the plants got washed out.
I add crazy amount of blue to my fluorescence Glo fish tank though.


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## redfishsc (Aug 29, 2010)

WingoAgency said:


> For color preference with planted tanks, I go the other way from yours. I will lower the blue side and add more green side.
> And Let the white take care of the growth.



That would work OK in an acrylic tank, or one made with Starfire low-iron glass. 

But my 45g that has the cyans (basically they are green to the eye) looks pathetic when only the string with cyan is on. It really makes the glass appear grossly thicker than normal and really just looks ugly.


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## WingoAgency (Jan 10, 2006)

redfishsc said:


> That would work OK in an acrylic tank, or one made with Starfire low-iron glass.
> 
> But my 45g that has the cyans (basically they are green to the eye) looks pathetic when only the string with cyan is on. It really makes the glass appear grossly thicker than normal and really just looks ugly.


GOOD POINT! Need to test it out.

All my tanks I care about are either acrylics or starfire!!!! I should try that on my bio cube or my 40 breeder what greenish glass will do to the lighting choices. But I have to first put some good looking inhabitants in them to tell


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## Dragonfish (Apr 28, 2011)

I have a 24 LED kit on the way plus some extra LEDs to play around with color. I'll do a full build and I can probably get my hands on a PAR meter.


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## reybie (Jun 7, 2007)

What colors did you go with?


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## redfishsc (Aug 29, 2010)

WingoAgency said:


> GOOD POINT! Need to test it out.
> 
> All my tanks I care about are either acrylics or starfire!!!! I should try that on my bio cube or my 40 breeder what greenish glass will do to the lighting choices. But I have to first put some good looking inhabitants in them to tell



I would recommend you find a dimmable driver that will run a single LED and just start with one. 


You can get some of those 3 watt Deal Extreme drivers and mess around on the discussion topics (bottom of the product's page they usually have threaded discussions)---- there are tutorials on how to splice in a potentiometer (by removing a resistor) in the driver turning it into a $8 driver for a single LED. This will be your best bet. 


Never forget this--- our eyes are extraordinarily sensitive to cyan/green. Even a tiny, tiny amount looks very, very odd.


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## Dragonfish (Apr 28, 2011)

I'm going to try 1:1:1 5400K, 6500K and royal blue, but I also got a bunch of extras and 10000K so I can play around with the color.


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## redfishsc (Aug 29, 2010)

Dragonfish said:


> I'm going to try 1:1:1 5400K, 6500K and royal blue, but I also got a bunch of extras and 10000K so I can play around with the color.


That will look just fine if you can dim the royal blues by themselves. Otherwise it will look kinda weird. 


You could also get a VERY nice color pop by swapping the 5400K with 3,000K (aka, warm whites). 

The 5400K and 6500K don't look very different.... at least, not Cree, Rebel, or Bridgelux. 


The 3,000K will look much more "rich" when combined with the 6500's and royals. A lot more red pop.


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## Dragonfish (Apr 28, 2011)

No worries, I have 8 4500K, 8 10000K, 12 6500K and 8 RB coming and will only use 24 or less. Also two dimmable drivers. I may only end up using the RB for moonlights.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

RipariumGuy said:


> Whoa, hold on here... On the reef forum I linked to they were growing SPS corals (in a 90g) with 40 LEDs and 4 T5's. So wouldn't I need more then 20 LEDs to grow low light plants? I am a reef noob, so I am kinda just guessing here.
> 
> Are they really that powerful? I wasn't under that impression when I was reading around. From what you are saying, I am gathering that 20 LEDs is equivelant to a single T5HO light fixture? That sound about right?
> 
> If these are so powerful, and yet so cheap, why are they not more popular in the hobby?


Because few folks want to DIY.

They are powerful but with specific trade offs, the spread and color mixing/spotting, the optics and type of each lamp makes a difference.

We can also vary the energy with dimmers...........so we use less without adjustments to the height, thus the SPREAD stays the same and those optics keep their original function.

Also, if you have a few blues, you get poor mix with the whites, so you have blue "spots", if you have a fair mix of each color type, then you get a more even color in the tank or place the lights up higher so the light mixes in the tank.

I contract with a guy in Chico to make my lights. This is easier and I do not have the time right now to mess without or the motivation. He does a better job and it's not much more than the DIY kits.

So it's well worth while for me to contract it out.

If interested, I can send anyone his email and contact info/Examples. He's made a lot of them.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

redfishsc said:


> I have 14 Cree's over a "Half 40b". It's a 36" long tank but it's only 9" front/back (and only 9" tall so maybe a one-fourth 40b lol).
> 
> 
> 14 Crees run at around 500-600mA gives me a solid med/high light level (50-70 micromols) on the bottom, but in a 40b you'd want to crank it up a little.
> ...


+1, optics are critical and can greatly reduce the old MH's spill issues a lot.
20 should be fine at 24" above the tank. This is Riparium right? So it just needs to hit the top of the water, not the bottom of the tank. 
The driver/dimmer can dial the intensity down nicely and mix and match different colors for your preference. If you do not like a certain lamp, you can switch it out for a different color etc.

Lots of options, which makes these lights problematic in some ways for many folks.


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## helenjiang (Jul 12, 2011)

I think the apollo led aquarium light is the cheapest and the most valuable light in this world and in this moment.


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## rountreesj (Jun 12, 2007)

if i am looking to do LEDS over a 10gallon aquarium and want to have 6700k-10000k, for a medium light tank, where should i look?


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

plantbrain said:


> Because few folks want to DIY.
> 
> They are powerful but with specific trade offs, the spread and color mixing/spotting, the optics and type of each lamp makes a difference.
> 
> ...


I take it you saw these results in person or something? I'm just curious how many blues is too few blues? For example, I only have 12 royal blue over a 6 foot span for my tank. I'm wondering if I'll look bad.


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## jcgd (Feb 18, 2004)

rountreesj said:


> if i am looking to do LEDS over a 10gallon aquarium and want to have 6700k-10000k, for a medium light tank, where should i look?


For the LEDs? Or references to the number of LEDs needed?


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## reybie (Jun 7, 2007)

Dragonfish said:


> I have a 24 LED kit on the way plus some extra LEDs to play around with color. I'll do a full build and I can probably get my hands on a PAR meter.


Did you put this together yet?


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## Dragonfish (Apr 28, 2011)

Yes and no. I ended up not liking LEDs on my 55 gallon so I built a 30w unit for a planned 20 gallon. I used 6 6500K, 2 10000K and 2 4500K on a single dimmable driver. It came with 60 degree optics but I found that unless the light was at least 12" above the tank it just didn't look right. I took the optics off and and it looks much better. I put it over my daughter's 10 gallon and cranked it up and it was so bright it freaked out the goldfish  This is just about the perfect light, you can adjust it from low light all the way up to too much light! I didn't use any blue's they just didn't look right in there. I thought they would blend in more but you could actually see weird blue shadows. Overall I love the kit! I used my own heatsink so I could really do a nice custom job hiding the wires. Unfortunately my 55 gallon crashed and I lost almost every fish so I have to sell this light to afford to rebuild it  I do have another driver left and enough LEDs to build another though.


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## Naekuh (Oct 19, 2011)

are those the bridgelux with lenses? 

And the white ones are they 6500k? 

so order was 6k 10k 6k 4k 6k?


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## Dragonfish (Apr 28, 2011)

yes
yes
yes. All the way across it is 6k 10k 6k 4k 6k 6k 4k 6k 10k 6k


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## reybie (Jun 7, 2007)

I like the 6700K and 10K. I'm looking at getting their 36 LED kit. What's the max number of LED per driver?

Edit: Oops, I just looked at the pic 7-12. The other one on their site is 12-20.


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

How much did that cost you DragonFish? And would it support a high tech system? It would be really cool to eventually get an LED setup like this for my setup.


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## Dragonfish (Apr 28, 2011)

I actually bought a lot more than what's on that light, so best guess is that it is about $70 in parts to build that. I'd like to reiterate, it is for sale  And I'm very open to trades! I just need enough cash to rebuild my poor 55 gallons livestock.


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

Dragonfish said:


> I actually bought a lot more than what's on that light, so best guess is that it is about $70 in parts to build that. I'd like to reiterate, it is for sale  And I'm very open to trades! I just need enough cash to rebuild my poor 55 gallons livestock.


Dang! That's a really good deal! Why did I buy a T5HO fixture for $50 more again?... :icon_cry:


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## Dragonfish (Apr 28, 2011)

My favorite part is that I can run the same light on a low tech or high tech, and anywhere in between! If you're ever down in Kenosha stop by, I'm still going to set up another tank with the second light when it's done.


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## Dragonfish (Apr 28, 2011)

http://s81.photobucket.com/albums/j227/Dragonfish/?action=view&current=light.mp4

I don't own a video camera so I used my cannon sx130. Turned out pretty good but as I turned the dimmer up the camera compensated the brightness so it looks like it's getting brighter then dimmer. I'm also adding a pic that is a pretty good representation. In the vid and pic the light is 20" off the substrate.


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