# do I have to toss all my plants?



## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

DIY CO2 on a 65g is almost impossible unless you have linked 10 2L bottles. You should reduce the lighting, seriously think about getting a pressurized CO2 system, and also dosing ferts with the EI system.


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## waterfaller1 (Jul 5, 2006)

Try three days of lights out before you dump them.


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## JeffNut (Oct 2, 2008)

bsmith782 said:


> You should reduce the lighting...


I agree. I would hold off buying stuff or tossing the plants until the algae goes away (through reduced lighting). You might even want to stop fertilizing the gravel. Removing the algae by hand is only a temporary solution; treat the disease not the symptom.


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## Trio123 (Nov 5, 2008)

EI system :?


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## waterfaller1 (Jul 5, 2006)

EI=estimative index of dosing.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/water-parameters/21944-_dosing-regimes_.html


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## Rod Hay (Feb 11, 2006)

You could also dose Excel everyday to help w/ the CO2 supply until you can get a pressurized unit. Just dose 7ml or up to 10ml every day. 

On a big tank you can run thru the regular size bottles (250ml) in under a month. I purchase 2 liter or 4 liter jugs from Big Als - very cost effective:
http://www.bigalsonline.com/

I ran my 75g tank w/ 2 t5HO for almost 6 months and dosed EXCEL everyday. It did just fine.


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## EdTheEdge (Jan 25, 2007)

I would guess that the root of your problem lies with either too little/fluctuating CO2 and/or too much lighting.


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## Trio123 (Nov 5, 2008)

The Excel will kill my spiral vallisneria right? I may just take that out anyway... it is covered in the algae.


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## brohawk (May 19, 2008)

Correct. Your vals will melt w/ Excel. You need to go pressurized anyway. Even if you take your vals out, Excel will only be a temporary solution--probably will only alleviate your algae problems but not completely fix them.


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## niko (Mar 8, 2006)

I agree with Ed - inconsistency is a big problem for a planted tank. A DIY CO2 system is fine IF you can maintain good constant gas production.

You may have room temerature that is too low for the yeast to make a good amount of CO2. Look into that first. If that solves your CO2 production problem (higher temperature of the yeast mixture) then make sure that you change the mixture every 4 days or so. It's better to change it before it has slowed down. The idea is the same - consistency.

The suggestion to try a black out before you toss your plants is completely reasonable. I've done up to 11 days of darkness and most plants survive it.

You could also try to run only one of the 2 bulbs for 7 hours a day and both of them for 1 hour only. That is if you can switch then on/off independently.

--Nikolay


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## Trio123 (Nov 5, 2008)

So I looked at http://www.plantedtank.net/articles/Pressurized-CO2/19/ and I think I can fork out 100 if I can really find this stuff for 100. I found this on ebay, Reef Fanactic Dual Gauge CO2 Regulator with Solenoid RF. Is that the type of regulator I need? Also what size CO2 cylinder do I need with a 65 gallon? 5lb, 10lb? I told the guy at tractor supply that it was for a fish tank and he looked at me like I was crazy :fish:I think I have less than heavily stocked plants, maybe average stocking if that helps at all :confused1: Thanks for the help, I have worked with saltwater reef tanks but I am finding my planted tank to be as complicated or more so. But if it all works out in the end and I have stable tank, I'll be happy.


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## die2win (Aug 10, 2008)

I use a 5lb Co2 cylinder, it's just a matter of where the thing has to stand. 

Here's a good site for info:

http://www.bestaquariumregulator.com/ :fish:


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## Trio123 (Nov 5, 2008)

all I saw was CO2 equipment and fertilizers for sale, not that much about them. I cant afford 150 for just the regulator.

I guess what I am really asking is what am I looking for in a CO2 regulator? What is the difference between dual gauge and single? some of them have a tube looking thing that I think prevents moisture from getting in the tank, do I need that? the bubbles per second or 10 seconds... what does that need to be? I'm a poor college student but I've invest alot into this tank already I dont want to just let it die... but I cant afford a 400$ fully automated system. Anyone know of a website that explains how a regulator works and what is nessacary so I can shop on ebay without buying a scuba regulator by accident :eek5:


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## brohawk (May 19, 2008)

Get a dual gauge. One tells you how much gas is left in the cylinder, the other tells you how much working pressure is pushing up against the needle valve. A Milwaukee will be in yr price range, among others. Get one w/ dual gauges, solenoid, needle valve and bubble counter. Don't bother w/ a pH controller or other doodads. Should be able to find that for around $65.

Start w/ 4 bps for yr tank. Slowly turn up for over a few days until you see yr fish gasping, or hanging out solely at the top of yr tank, then turn the bps down slightly and keep monitoring. Buying a drop checker will help you dial it in right.


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## Trio123 (Nov 5, 2008)

thank you, I will look into that... but right now is exam time for my classes so I need to focus on that. I have only been turning the lights on for like 3-4 hours a day and that has completely halted the algae growth and doesnt appear to be hurting my plants. 

I dont like the idea of my fish gasping though... cant I just measure the CO2 with the pH/hardness chart? when its in a good range leave it there?


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## brohawk (May 19, 2008)

The CO2 chart is extremely inaccurate. Use a drop checker instead.


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## Bugman (Jan 7, 2008)

Have to agree with everything that has been said already. You REALLY need pressurized Co2.

Without going really sub par, a Milwaukee is about the cheapest you will find. It will do for now but when you have the cash you will want to swap out the needle valve on it. (you can get a better needle valve for about $30). Usually about the best you will find them for is around $80. Here is one on Ebay that is a pretty good deal, if the price doesn't jump.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Milwaukee-MA957...m14&_trkparms=72:570|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318

Here is about what you would normally expect to pay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Milwaukee-MA957...ptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116

If there is anyway you can up your budget, I would highly reccomend spending another $70 or so and buy a better one. You will be happier in the long run.

Get a drop checker, as suggested, to get you Co2 level correct. Then you won't have to have your fish gasping. Here is the one I use in all my tanks. 

http://www.greenleafaquariums.com/co2-drop-checkers/gleaf-drop-checker.html


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## Trio123 (Nov 5, 2008)

Thank you, I think I am about to order! So what about Aquatech brand regulator with a better needle valve? That drop checker thing looks neat, much better than Precious gasping Too bad GreenLeaf doesnt also carry needle valves, then I could get both and save on shipping. 

You mentioned 70 dollars more for a better regulator setup... what are my choices in that category? I keep find 80 or 200. 

Being that Christmas is coming up maybe I could go up... get a better regulator... what about this http://cgi.ebay.com/CO2-Tank-Regula...ryZ20758QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Thanks again, you guys are really helpful


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## Bugman (Jan 7, 2008)

Trio123 said:


> Too bad GreenLeaf doesnt also carry needle valves, then I could get both and save on shipping.
> 
> You mentioned 70 dollars more for a better regulator setup... what are my choices in that category? I keep find 80 or 200.


Orlando at Greenleaf can probably get you a needle valve. Email him. 

149.99
http://www.greenleafaquariums.com/co2-regulators/choice-co2-regulator.html

149.99 - with Fabco needle valve
http://www.bestaquariumregulator.com/CO2.html

155.00
http://sumoregulator.com/


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## Trio123 (Nov 5, 2008)

I think I will be better safe then sorry and wait another month and go with the greenleaf system. After reading and rereading and rereading his payment and ordering details I decided that Rex's site was too aggressive and the payment method a bit out landish, why not just use a link to paypal and an ordering cart??? anyway, thank you. I think my plants will be alright for another month until I have enough money.


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## waterfaller1 (Jul 5, 2006)

Trio123 said:


> I think I will be better safe then sorry and wait another month and go with the greenleaf system.


You will be very happy with Orlando's work, it's tight. And his customer service and shipping speed is second to none.:thumbsup:


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## Trio123 (Nov 5, 2008)

Impatience is a virtue! I went ahead and ordered the tank, regulator, and tester. Had nice directions and I've got it all set up... but Im afraid to turn it on until my boyfriend tightens the screw that connects the reg to the tank. I tightened it with a wrench but Im paranoid. Some questions though, I got a timer, what should it be set at? Is there any risk of CO2 shock if I add the CO2 to fast? Like massive pH swings? If so how do I prevent that? Anything else I should know?


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## Bugman (Jan 7, 2008)

Trio123 said:


> Impatience is a virtue! I went ahead and ordered the tank, regulator, and tester. Had nice directions and I've got it all set up... but Im afraid to turn it on until my boyfriend tightens the screw that connects the reg to the tank. I tightened it with a wrench but Im paranoid. Some questions though, I got a timer, what should it be set at? Is there any risk of CO2 shock if I add the CO2 to fast? Like massive pH swings? If so how do I prevent that? Anything else I should know?


Most people set the timer so the Co2 will come on about 1 hour before the lights come on and set to go off a little before the lights go out. Does your setup have a bubble counter? If yes then there should be no issue with adding too fast. Adjust the needle valve until you are getting 2 or 3 bps and after a couple of hours check your drop checker. You really need to do this when you are going to be around for a extended period of time since the drop checker takes a couple of hours to reflect the change. A PH swing due to Co2 in normal and will not affect your fish.


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## Trio123 (Nov 5, 2008)

Yes it does have a bubble counter. Cool, doesnt sound to difficult. Thanks! 


oh and ps I order from greenleaf and thier shipping was extremely fast (2 days) and everything had easy to understand directions. For anyone else considering purchasing a regulator.


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## Trio123 (Nov 5, 2008)

It's back... I am going to do a large water change (50%) and pull out the plants I can reasonably pull out and give them a light bleach dip. How badly will up rooting my plants like that affect them (I know the water column is going to become polluted and I will hopefully correct that with the 50% water change)? I know the crypts dont like be uprooted... and I looked under my tank and saw that thier are roots are going all over the place under there... I have a feeling I may disturb the entire bottom if I try to pull up my crypts... I guess I will have to remove the hair algae from them as best I can without pulling them out...


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

You do have a pretty high light intensity on that tank, as much as twice what others have been able to do very well with. There is nothing wrong with that, but it does make algae problems become more severe and harder to get rid of. Why not use only one of those T5 bulbs, at least for a few weeks until you get the algae under control? Do you really want the fast plant growth you get with that much light?


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## Trio123 (Nov 5, 2008)

No I dont mind only using one bulb, I just got two because I was thinking in terms of watts per gallon back then and one was less than a watt. But I am not sure how to do it. They are both connected to one ballast and I've nailed them up into the canopy so that I cant take them out (without alot of effort)... Maybe I could just leave the hood open? One of the lights is on the hood...


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Trio123 said:


> No I dont mind only using one bulb, I just got two because I was thinking in terms of watts per gallon back then and one was less than a watt. But I am not sure how to do it. They are both connected to one ballast and I've nailed them up into the canopy so that I cant take them out (without alot of effort)... Maybe I could just leave the hood open? One of the lights is on the hood...


I have a 2 X 55 watt AH Supply light, and I just remove one bulb. It works fine, as far as I can see. I assume you could do the same with T5 bulbs. It is no different from operating the light with one bulb "burned out".


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## Trio123 (Nov 5, 2008)

Hmm, I guess that makes sense... I was just afraid that it might be bad not to have a bulb in the sockets... leaving them open to possible moisture... I will just put my glass canopy's back on... which I should have on there anyway but I always forget it's on there and squirt thier dinner all over it... ramble ramble. Ok will do Hoppy :thumbsup:


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