# Weighing the pros and cons: flour vs eco



## Aquatic-Obsession (Jul 7, 2005)

Hey guys,

I've read tons of threads on the two but still not sure what to do in terms of substrate. I hope some of you experienced aquarists can help me out.

In the long run I know I'll want a heavily planted tank. At the moment I just have a bunch of java ferns and vals. I definately want to be able to grow lush and thick wisteria (love the look of it). I currently have ~110 watt of T5 lighting on a 75 gallon tank. The current substrate is just gravel.

Both look great and both are great for growing plants in. My gf uses eco complete and ends up syphoning up a lot of the eco complete making it a pain in the butt to clean the tank. As for the flourite it makes it cloudy which is not a big deal. 

My tank is currently inhabited and full so I would have to tear it down to add flourite which is leading me more towards the eco-complete but a big long term issue is the cleaning of it ..... Furthermore, both are on sale for the same price!!! 

If you guys could give me some advice for cleaning eco-complete or advice against it all the help would be greatly appreciated, sry about the long thread.

Alex


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## triple red (May 27, 2005)

i have eco in my tank and i have no problem vaccuuming it.....your not supposed to plunge the wand deep into the substrate.....just vac the top of it
as for your plants....the wisteria and java ferns take most of their nutrients from the water column


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

If you have not used the search tool, please choose to do so next time:

Latest Thread: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=23891&highlight=flourite+eco


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## mrbelvedere (Nov 15, 2005)

Flourite has been working great for me. Easy planting medium and the flora seem to like it. I don't think either one will let you down.


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## oceanaqua (Nov 24, 2005)

I would get neither, go with Soilmaster, no rinsing, higher cec than flourite, has iron, and its much cheaper. $17 for 50 pound bag...


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## Aquatic-Obsession (Jul 7, 2005)

i haven't seen soil master around here locally. As for the issue regarding the plants getting most of their nutrients from the water column doesn't flourite bring the nutrients from the water column into the substrate? Wouldn't that be bad for certain plants like java fern? Sry pretty new to this stuff and just want to make sure i do the right thing before spending a bunch of money.


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## Robert H (Apr 3, 2003)

What is soilmaster and who makes it?


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

Soilmaster Select is a fracted clay, similar to Flourite.

SS is not made for aquariums, but it works; and quite well from the reports of people who use it. Comes in charcoal (dark grey) or red. Less than $20 for a 50lb. bag.

http://www.lesco.com/

Use the store finder. If there's one in your area, you're in luck. Even if they don't have the product you're looking for in stock, they can get it for you with no additional charge.


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## Jerm (Sep 26, 2005)

And in my case, of course they don't have it. O yeah, I woud buy flourite before eco.


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## Reefcrack (Oct 19, 2005)

*Soilmaster Select and fish?*

How do fish do with the Soilmaster? Anyone have any photos of the tanks with the Soilmaster? I have a Lesco center 17 miles away! This might be something worth some time and effort!

Jim


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## Lissette (Apr 2, 2005)

Don't mean to hijack the thread, but..

I don't get it. I used to think that if you didn't buy any of these special substrates, your plants won't survive or live up to its potential.

I think it's a load of crap.

I've been growing highlight plants with just regular black gravel with no fert sticks buried beneath the plants for almost 6 months now with no problems whatsoever. In fact, my plants look every bit as healthy as the next guy with eco or flourite.

I just add Flourish 2 to 3 times a week, and Macros 2 x a week with pressurized co2 at the maximum. I just threw out a whole bunch of Stellata plants that were growing way out of control. You tell me if regular gravel can't work just as good as those specialty ones.

I too had Eco in my tank. Never again will I buy such a product. Don't want to get into that, but it should give you an idea of how bad it was. 

I'm just happy that regular gravel works for me.

Lissette


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Lissette, your tanks always look fantastic! I look forward to the day you launch a 75 or bigger...

I have regular gravel ontop of Eco in my 90. Flourite in my 26 gallon. Some plants do a bit better in one tank or the other, but really, both do quite well, if I maintain the changes and watch ferts/CO2 levels etc. I think the plus over regular gravel is the ability for a mature substrate to yield more iron from Flourite or Eco - for iron loving plants. At least that is something I remember reading on this forum. But that is only possible with a CO2 injected setup. This is just a recollection and I might have this wrong. BTW, I once had some of the corrupted batch of Eco and that was a real nightmare, but the company replaced with quality Eco. I like the stuff now.


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## Lissette (Apr 2, 2005)

Thanks for the compliment Betowess.

Caribsea did reimburse me for the corrupted eco, but after going through so many problems (Green water, BGA, BBA, high Ph, Kh, and Gh), I've become petro, if you know what I mean.

Before using eco I used Floramax. I never had a problem with it, but I changed it to eco because of the color.

I'm glad your new batch is working well for you. I know a lot of people that have the new batch too, and the're very pleased with it.

As for aquascaping a bigger tank, I'd love the opportunity to try but unfortunately, I don't have the space.

Lissette


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## chickenball z (Aug 30, 2005)

oceanaqua said:


> I would get neither, go with Soilmaster, no rinsing, higher cec than flourite, has iron, and its much cheaper. $17 for 50 pound bag...


but what additional nutrients need to be added to make it comparable to fluorite?

currently my tanks run either 100% fluorite, or 50/50 of fluorite (or Eco-complete) and gravel.... and I dose using Tropica Master Grow


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

*No rinsing?*



oceanaqua said:


> I would get neither, go with Soilmaster, no rinsing, higher cec than flourite, has iron, and its much cheaper. $17 for 50 pound bag...


Maybe rinsing isn't absolutely necessary with Soilmaster, but when I rinsed mine I got a lot of brownish dirt out of it. I would certainly do that again if I replace the substrate some day. I had no cloudyness at all when I filled the tank with water.


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## mrbelvedere (Nov 15, 2005)

What is the grain size of Soilmaster?


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

I have 7 50lb bags I'm bring to the SFBAAPS meeting tomorrow at Mike's.
2 are spoken for already, nice looking charcoal color.

It should be rinsed prior. 

I grew nice plants for 10 years before using Flourite, then ADA, then Onyx, then Florabase, then EC , then Turface, now SM.

I can certainly say plants do better in these products versus sand.
I've not been impressed by either FB or EC. FB was one of the worst substrates I've used and several other folks had some similar comments about it.

I have been impressed with: Flourite, onyx sand, ADA soils, and SM.
Sand works pretty well also, but the cost difference does make it worth while to buy the plant specific substrates.

I like the ADA substrates as the cost is not different than the Flourite/Onyx sand(28$ for 9 liters of ADa Amazonia soil a 20 gal tank), but when you get to SM, the cost is so low it's hard to find the trade off difference.

So you have super cheap sand, then SM, then logn term Onyx/flourite and then ADA soils.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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