# Salmons 75-P: amazon somethin or other (56k)



## mcqueenesq (Aug 29, 2011)

I don't even want to think about how much ryuoh stone it would take to pile up to that golden rule sweet spot. You've got some great rocks here, and you've arranged them very well. I'm really looking forward to seeing how this tank progresses.


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## GMYukonon24s (May 3, 2009)

That's a great start you have going there.


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## kribkeeper888 (Oct 8, 2011)

Wow nice, did you say what the dimensions of the tank were?


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

mcqueenesq said:


> I don't even want to think about how much ryuoh stone it would take to pile up to that golden rule sweet spot. You've got some great rocks here, and you've arranged them very well. I'm really looking forward to seeing how this tank progresses.


Haha no me either but I have thought about it. thats about 30 lbs right there so would need at least double that/larger pieces. fairly pleased how it turned out with what it is. thanks for the kind words!



GMYukonon24s said:


> That's a great start you have going there.


Thanks!



kribkeeper888 said:


> Wow nice, did you say what the dimensions of the tank were?


other than 75P, no I missed that. will update that, thanks.


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## clau74 (Apr 21, 2012)

Hi, 
Nice tank, a good start! When you find a plan fauna. Recommend , Hemigrammus Rhodostomus - Rummy Nose Tetra, Paracheirodon Axelrod - Cardinal Tetra, Hypesobrycon herbertaxelrodi. You decides! 
Good luck.


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

clau74 said:


> Hi,
> Nice tank, a good start! When you find a plan fauna. Recommend , Hemigrammus Rhodostomus - Rummy Nose Tetra, Paracheirodon Axelrod - Cardinal Tetra, Hypesobrycon herbertaxelrodi. You decides!
> Good luck.


Thanks some good ideas! Already have rummynose in another tank and love them, but dont want the same fish in multiple tanks. Cardinals are also always a good go to, and I've always wanted black neons too.


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

quick day 3 update, most of the plants expect for one type of crypt (guess which one ) are doing great and responding well to the environment.

first time with a real emmersed/DSM setup so I'm really trying to baby it. frequent misting and daily air exchanges. humidity is very high, it's like putting your hand in a greenhouse when taking the cling wrap off. contemplated using some tank water from my 13g to mist with, but changed my mind as there is some algae in there and I dont want anything transfered to this tank. all plants are tissue cultured so trying to avoid adding anything that could "contaminate" the condtions (snails, algae, disease). 

onto some pics of the plants

right side










left side


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## clau74 (Apr 21, 2012)

Hi , 
It's nice aquascape style, what kind of rock do you use? Plants remain on the emersion period? Can I make suggestions for other fish: Thayer boehlkei, Rasbora heteromorpha, Boraras Brigittae, Microrasbora Galaxy.


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## aXio (May 29, 2011)

I really like your plant selection. I love seeing crypts in higher end setups like this. I can't wait to see how this grows out. Your rocks are a bit low laying so they will probably get covered up a good bit, but I like that look.


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

clau74 said:


> Hi ,
> It's nice aquascape style, what kind of rock do you use? Plants remain on the emersion period? Can I make suggestions for other fish: Thayer boehlkei, Rasbora heteromorpha, Boraras Brigittae, Microrasbora Galaxy.


Thanks again! Rock used is Ryouh stone, hence the title name :hihi:

Yep still emmersed, probably at least another week or more.

Good suggestion on the Penguin Tetras (thayer boehlkei) that is an option I have been considering!



aXio said:


> I really like your plant selection. I love seeing crypts in higher end setups like this. I can't wait to see how this grows out. Your rocks are a bit low laying so they will probably get covered up a good bit, but I like that look.


Thanks! Indeed some odd plant choices for a rockscape, but I like it too. My only regret is that the rocks are as low laying as they are like you mentioned. need larger/more pieces or some plain gravel or lava rock stuffed in pantyhose underneath. still I probably wont change a thing and see how it fills in.


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## clau74 (Apr 21, 2012)

Hi , 
There are common names used by me, Ryouh stone . I'm from romania, try to get along! Waiting to hear from you, if you can help. Are close.


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

clau74 said:


> Hi ,
> There are common names used by me, Ryouh stone . I'm from romania, try to get along! Waiting to hear from you, if you can help. Are close.


Hey clau74, sorry meant no offense....have been able to understand what you saying so far. Ryouh stone is a fairly common rock used for aquascaping and its from Japan (to the best of my knowledge)

Not entirely sure what you mean by the last couple sentences but if you have any questions feel free to post.....and thank you for your fish stocking suggestions so far! Have a good one


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## Musclecar67 (Mar 17, 2012)

Very nice tank! Cant wait to see it mature.


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## clau74 (Apr 21, 2012)

Hi , 
Apology accepted, I want water in your tank !!!


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## sumer (Feb 6, 2010)

Beautiful Scape. Kinda inspirational to me (soon I'm gonna start a new tank project  )


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## frrok (May 22, 2011)

Looking good salmon. Love the rock work as well. Looks like a fault line or low lying mountain range. I like your approach. I'm def subscribed.


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

Musclecar67 said:


> Very nice tank! Cant wait to see it mature.


Thanks! 



clau74 said:


> Hi ,
> Apology accepted, I want water in your tank !!!


haha not yet 



sumer said:


> Beautiful Scape. Kinda inspirational to me (soon I'm gonna start a new tank project  )


glad to hear it can be a possible inspiration for you. thanks for the kind words! good luck on your new project.



frrok said:


> Looking good salmon. Love the rock work as well. Looks like a fault line or low lying mountain range. I like your approach. I'm def subscribed.


Thanks so much frrok! Was trying to acheive a mountain range-ish look, but my planting/stems behind the rocks will likely diminish that look and feel :icon_neut 

*******

Not much to update tonight. The nurii is looking like it might be coming around a little. Hopefully it does, theres easily 30+ plantlets of it and it would stink to loose them all. All the stems appear to actually have some new growth already which I found surprising. Not too sure about this ranalisma though, doesn't seem to be commonly used much? Not a ton of info floating around either. By descriptions I've found, seems like an ideal foreground (1-2in)

Will try for some pics tomorrow. Thanks again for everyones kind words!


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## clau74 (Apr 21, 2012)

Hi ,

Salmon anything new?


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

one week since planting. everything but the nurii is growing well so far. still not sure about tweaking a couple rocks a little or not. 



















need to redo a new splash sheild :icon_lol:


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## mcqueenesq (Aug 29, 2011)

This is looking good! You're definitely doing something(s) right to keep the plants that healthy and green. I think it's going to be stunning when you flood it and the plants fill in.


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## clau74 (Apr 21, 2012)

Hi ,
words have no value, strong enough pictures ...


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

mcqueenesq said:


> This is looking good! You're definitely doing something(s) right to keep the plants that healthy and green. I think it's going to be stunning when you flood it and the plants fill in.


thanks! have been watching it like a hawk since planting. i'm hoping that if i was doing something wrong, i would have noticed by now :icon_wink already getting nervous for the flood and possible melting dry starts are known for



clau74 said:


> Hi ,
> words have no value, strong enough pictures ...


thanks clau


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

just over two weeks since planting










nurii throwing green leaves?










nesaea pumping out stem roots


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

A fellow 75P user, cool.

Nice start


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## clau74 (Apr 21, 2012)

Hi ,
To accomplish great things, we must not only act, but also dream, not only plan, but also believe.
Beautiful plants!


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

CmLaracy said:


> A fellow 75P user, cool.
> 
> Nice start


Yep, awesome dimensions! Doesn't seem to be too many using this size.

You working on version five yet? Rock or wood? Or both?  EDIT: I see your using the same seriyu.

Thanks CmL



clau74 said:


> Hi ,
> To accomplish great things, we must not only act, but also dream, not only plan, but also believe.
> Beautiful plants!


Cheers clau! I like your quote!


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## kwheeler91 (May 26, 2009)

It looks good. I wouldnt move the rocks they have very nice flow. I wish the rocks were taller/the tank was taller, but I think it will look great when the stems grow taller in the back


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

kwheeler91 said:


> It looks good. I wouldnt move the rocks they have very nice flow. I wish the rocks were taller/the tank was taller, but I think it will look great when the stems grow taller in the back


Thanks! Wont be moving any of main rocks that make up the scape, theres just two small spots i've considered tweaking...but likely wont. couldn't agree more re the rock height vs tank height, it's the only issue i'm unhappy with.

nice bass btw!


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## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

Gorgeous, just simply gorgeous


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## clau74 (Apr 21, 2012)

Hi ,
I look forward to hearing your water tank , I have expected, right?


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

salmon said:


> Yep, awesome dimensions! Doesn't seem to be too many using this size.
> 
> You working on version five yet? Rock or wood? Or both?  EDIT: I see your using the same seriyu.
> 
> ...


 Version 4 was blacked out for over a week due to CO2 issues so I'm getting all the plants back to health before I rescape, lights came back on yesterday. The rescape may not happen for a while though, I have to see if I can do it with just the soil that's in the tank, cause there's no more AS powder or normal left at AFA or ADG and I'm pretty sure my next design would need at least another 3 liter bag if not 9l. Went to place the order yesterday and was so pissed  If anyone has some spare powder AS please let me know.

And yeah it's not a popular dimension because of the 30"... you pretty much need a hanging light fixture. I only have a 75P instead of a 90P because I bought this thing back when I was 14 (turning 20 soon) and that $100 difference was huge back when it was all the money I had and more (especially since it was for 6" and that's it, no other difference). If I were to buy a tank now it'd be a 90P for sure, I'd love that extra 6" of width to work with. The 30" really is perfect for a 150w MH though, and I just love MH shimmer. One day I'll have that 90P and some LED pendants for shimmer and extra space. For now the 75P is more than sufficient.

You'll have a lot of fun with this tank if you keep at it, the dimensions may seem a little strange be really do allow for a lot of creativity.


EDIT: version 4 is only using about half or a little more than half of the Seiryu I bought, so I still have new hardscape to play with. My goal with v.V is to create as different of a scape as possible with the same exact materials. Sieryu, HC, Xmas moss, and Eleocharis.


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

clau74 said:


> Hi ,
> I look forward to hearing your water tank , I have expected, right?


soon my friend, soon!



CmLaracy said:


> Version 4 was blacked out for over a week due to CO2 issues so I'm getting all the plants back to health before I rescape, lights came back on yesterday. The rescape may not happen for a while though, I have to see if I can do it with just the soil that's in the tank, cause there's no more AS powder or normal left at AFA or ADG and I'm pretty sure my next design would need at least another 3 liter bag if not 9l. Went to place the order yesterday and was so pissed  If anyone has some spare powder AS please let me know.
> 
> And yeah it's not a popular dimension because of the 30"... you pretty much need a hanging light fixture. I only have a 75P instead of a 90P because I bought this thing back when I was 14 (turning 20 soon) and that $100 difference was huge back when it was all the money I had and more (especially since it was for 6" and that's it, no other difference). If I were to buy a tank now it'd be a 90P for sure, I'd love that extra 6" of width to work with. The 30" really is perfect for a 150w MH though, and I just love MH shimmer. One day I'll have that 90P and some LED pendants for shimmer and extra space. For now the 75P is more than sufficient.
> 
> ...


ya the lighting for its dimensions are the deal breaker for most im sure. wow only $100 more? woulda been $200+ more if i went 90-P? :icon_eek:

id offer to sell you my leftover AS powder, but i doubt it would be worth the shipping costs over the border.

good luck on the new scape when you get er going, i'll be following that for sure! btw roughly how many lbs of seiryu is in v.IV?


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

2in10 said:


> Gorgeous, just simply gorgeous


thanks 2in10! missed your post! that means alot coming from someone with a scape like yours! roud:


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)




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## clau74 (Apr 21, 2012)

Hi ,
Tank is very beautiful, plants and stones are a good choice.


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

clau74 said:


> Hi ,
> Tank is very beautiful, plants and stones are a good choice.


thank you kindly!


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

*to fill or not to fill?*

been a month and 4 days since planting, surprised with myself how patient i've been, until now. really want to fill it......still no CO2 in my tank though. considering filling it and doing a temp 3-4 x 2L DIY system until I get my tank filled...that is asking for trouble though

I had wanted to submit this tank/build to this years IALPC, not to win but for the experience. with 8 days left and no H2O, i think that plan has left the building :icon_frow not matured enough anyways, just wanted the experience.

here some pics from last night:










cant get over the RR growth, really surprised more do not use this stuff for foreground


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## clau74 (Apr 21, 2012)

Hi ,
I like, I like ...... the background plants did you use?


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

clau74 said:


> Hi ,
> I like, I like ...... the background plants did you use?


thanks again clau!

background left to right is:

-tonina (syngonanthus) manus
-hygro. polysperma 'ceylon' 
-ludwigia arcuata
-rotala sp nanjenshan
-nesae crassicaulis
-tonina manus


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

pic update, still no h20.....



















comparison to initial planting


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Looks amazing. Have you considered a lower foreground plant though? Only reason is your stones look more powerful and have more presence in your initial pics. I do like it as is but just thought that may be an improvement. Either way it will look really great. Love your stem choices as well.


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## Mr. Fish (Apr 24, 2012)

Tank looks great and plants grew alot since initial planting.. whats was your light and misting schedule like?

I noticed in the beginning you had too much water, its good you lowered it.


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

talontsiawd said:


> Looks amazing. Have you considered a lower foreground plant though? Only reason is your stones look more powerful and have more presence in your initial pics. I do like it as is but just thought that may be an improvement. Either way it will look really great. Love your stem choices as well.


Thanks! I have considered a different foreground, but trying to get away with one that doesn't need constant trimming. Im done with HC for that very reason. The current foreground will drastically change its look when I flood, but also might get a bit taller...not a good thing. The rocks dont appear as bold in the newest pic due to the light being farther forward than normal, takes away from the bold shadows it creates, but I do agree with what your saying.



Mr. Fish said:


> Tank looks great and plants grew alot since initial planting.. whats was your light and misting schedule like?
> 
> I noticed in the beginning you had too much water, its good you lowered it.


thanks! light and misting sched. is all over the map :icon_conf 

ya i had originally overfilled it to initially saturate the soil and help compensate for the slope.


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## halffrozen (Nov 4, 2011)

How does one fill a tank like this? lol It looks SO great! But I would be afraid to fill this thing and ruin a part of your scape.


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

halffrozen said:


> How does one fill a tank like this? lol It looks SO great! But I would be afraid to fill this thing and ruin a part of your scape.


newspaper + saran wrap + patience

lay down newspaper or paper towel gently over everything, layer some saran on top of that, and very slowly/gently fill. pull out the water barrier (paper and saran) when filled enough. at least thats my plan, alot easier said then done, really no different than doing a normal start after its planted.


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

Just a quick update. No pics, just news. 

*Potential flood may occur this evening!!!!*


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## clau74 (Apr 21, 2012)

Hi ,
It is true, enter the water tank!


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

tank is wet! working on taking some pics now.


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)




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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Looks fantastic.


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## xmas_one (Feb 5, 2010)

Impressive! I think your hardscape is perfect.


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## clau74 (Apr 21, 2012)

Hi ,
The big day arrived, are envious! Congratulations my friend !!


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

talontsiawd said:


> Looks fantastic.


Thanks!



xmas_one said:


> Impressive! I think your hardscape is perfect.


Thank-you kindly! my only issue with the hardscape is the height



clau74 said:


> Hi ,
> The big day arrived, are envious! Congratulations my friend !!


thanks clau! cheers!

******

happy to report no leaks overnight :hihi: it had better not.....

water looks like 7-UP, cant tell if its still a bit hazy or if it's just the co2. both DCs showing lime green borderline yellow, going to up it a bit more.

running 78f through the inline. not really sure what the ideal temp should be after a flood. was thinking lower temps for the plants, but warmer for the filter to establish bb. dont know if I should add an ammonia source or not at this point or let it run its course, kinda riding by the seat of my pants, hoping for little to no melting


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)




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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

soon time to toss in some livestock. what would you TPT'ers stock in here?

i had listed some possible options in my first post, kinda want something different, yet still shoalers. no CPD's...even in numbers. although they're one of my favorite fish, they can stay in my 13g for all im concerned, way too skittish


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

no input on livestock? im sure theres some good ideas out there 

heres a shot i took just before filling, first flower! nothing real special but maybe one thats not seen often. it didnt like the flood....nor did the others i noticed after filling 










and a fts as of last night, co2 turned off here. almost totally clear after 50 hours since filled. stems are growing it seems, no melting....YET


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## trenton (Apr 27, 2012)

Great looking scape so far, love the mix of plants. Will be nice to see once it grows in even more.


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## wetbizquit (Jul 9, 2006)

wow..... hats off to you mate, that is truely inspiring, going for something kind of similar on my emersed 10 gal obviously on a smaller scale


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

trenton said:


> Great looking scape so far, love the mix of plants. Will be nice to see once it grows in even more.


thanks trenton! 



wetbizquit said:


> wow..... hats off to you mate, that is truely inspiring, going for something kind of similar on my emersed 10 gal obviously on a smaller scale


many thanks! good luck on your emersed project!

********

pic as of an hour ago. today will be one week since filled. first WC and foreground trim to commence later today. looks hazy from the mass amounts of CO2


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

leds on sunset mode


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## clau74 (Apr 21, 2012)

Hi , 
I've long wanted to say, charm stones will disappear. The plants will cover the stones. Have you a solution?


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

clau74 said:


> Hi ,
> I've long wanted to say, charm stones will disappear. The plants will cover the stones. Have you a solution?


Yes, the foreground isn't working out as planned. the downoi between the rock crevices may also get too big and overtake them.

lots of trimming and maybe a change in foreground. the current one needs to be trimmed/mowed badly...

************

still need to do some major tlc, but have added some livestock over the last several days. amanos first, an oto. added 7 total rummys slowly over 4 days...and 6 lemon tetras and 2 otos today. 

total stock so far is:

-7 rummynose tetras
-6 lemon tetras
-3 otos
-4 amano shrimp

and a lonely CPD :icon_cry:

rummys, amanos and an oto were transfered from my 13g, which is now a dedicated shrimp tank :icon_bigg eventual shoal isn't decided on, and i was set on a single species, but 2-3 seems like it could also be interesting. the lemons were shoaling with the rummys so nicely roud:




























yes, the RR foreground really really needs to be hacked and removed of the emmersed growth. hopefully eventually carpet should not loke even remotley close to this right now.


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

hacked foreground down to substrate, got a little ruthless with my scissors, necessary ruthless-ness i guess


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## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

Looks very nice, Salmon! Give it a week to recover, and I think that you will be very pleased with the results of your trimming!!

Great tank, man!


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

crazydaz said:


> Looks very nice, Salmon! Give it a week to recover, and I think that you will be very pleased with the results of your trimming!!
> 
> Great tank, man!


Thanks crazydaz! never grown this plant, or most of the others in here, so hoping it doesnt mind the trimming it just got, i may have gone a little overboard :eek5: have you ever had any experience with the r. rostrata? hard to find any good info/pics on it. im hoping it will stay somewhat low. i love your square tank journal btw


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

some fish pics


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

hoping someone can give me some trimming tips. the rotala and hygro have hit the surface, nesea is close behind. i guess i have pressurized co2, fresh AS and EI dosing to thank for that, never experienced growth like this

as its a first time trim on these stems...should i level them into shape below the viewable hardscape line? I'm gonna end up with a mass of cuttings and nowhere to put them :help:

salmon = plant hoarder :hihi:


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## mythin (Jun 26, 2009)

I would definitely cut them below the hardscape and let them split and grow out, it will look really nice, just make sure they still have leaves however low you cut them.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

You can cut them wherever. The cut will be visible but that doesn't mean it looks horrible, on some plants it looks bad, on others it may actually look pretty bad. If you don't like the look, you can always cut lower later. 

Also, depending on lighting and co2, as well as the actual plant, some may back bud (not sure if that is the proper term for aquatic plants) very heavily to where you may not see the cut. I have had some plants just grow a new, single stem from the top in low light to a new stem at every node in high light/co2.

I guess my point is their isn't really a wrong way to do it. Even if you find you don't like it, you can always cut more off, or if you go too far, it will grow back. I tend to cut high most of the time so my tanks look appealing on a day to day basis but trim them low once the stems get "ratty". I rarely replant tops of plants and remove the bottom, as many do over time, but that is out of me being lazy.


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

thanks for tips mythin and talontsiawd 

my most recent trim/shaping since last post. not sure how satisfied I am with the whole scape. theres a couple plants that i dont think really fit


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## clau74 (Apr 21, 2012)

Hi,
Every time I see your aquarium is a pleasure for me! 
What is the color of the Drop Checker?


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## frrok (May 22, 2011)

I like how you can still see your hardscape. I know that was somewhat of a concern early on. But your vision was spot. Good work.


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

clau74 said:


> Hi,
> Every time I see your aquarium is a pleasure for me!
> What is the color of the Drop Checker?


Hi Clau, thanks again!

Both drop checkers run from lime green in am to almost yellow in the evening.



frrok said:


> I like how you can still see your hardscape. I know that was somewhat of a concern early on. But your vision was spot. Good work.


no kidding, it was a worry for awhile.....still kind of is, the downoi is growing fast. lots of upkeep with keeping it low i guess, something I tried to avoid when I chose my fore-mid ground plants. Will say I'm very impressed with using r. rostrata as a foreground plant, neat stuff since I hacked out the emmersed growth and it converted. seems to be staying low.


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## clau74 (Apr 21, 2012)

Hi ,
Green shows that the CO2 is 26-35 ppm. This color is very good for aquariums.
The yellow color shows that the CO2 is 36 ppm or more. This color is suitable for aquariums without fauna.
In my aquarium Drop Checker is green color. Color yellow, threatening wildlife in your aquarium?


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

clau74 said:


> Hi ,
> Green shows that the CO2 is 26-35 ppm. This color is very good for aquariums.
> The yellow color shows that the CO2 is 36 ppm or more. This color is suitable for aquariums without fauna.
> In my aquarium Drop Checker is green color. Color yellow, threatening wildlife in your aquarium?


Yes I agree, if it were yellow all the time it might be too much, but it only gets yellowish late in the day, and the fish dont mind. Drop checkers are really just a general indicator imo/what ive read. best way to see the maximum limitations of how much Co2 is in the water is to go by what the fish can handle.


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

newest shot since stem trimming/shaping from a few nights ago. the downoi is going nuts....time to buzz it down










almost gassed my fauna last night, forgot to unplug the co2, was going all night. yes, i really need a timer for the solenoid :icon_redf


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## clau74 (Apr 21, 2012)

Hi,
What's up buddy? If there are problems using solenoid programmer. I do not ever stop only when empty CO2 cylinder.


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

clau74 said:


> Hi,
> What's up buddy? If there are problems using solenoid programmer. I do not ever stop only when empty CO2 cylinder.


hey clau, i turn my co2 off every night, but i dont have it on a timer i have to do it manually. ive only forgotten the one time, but i really need to invest in a timer for it.

***********

random question for anyone looking....would 2-3 juvie angelfish be feasible in this tank? i realize 3 adults would be a prob if two pair off.


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## clau74 (Apr 21, 2012)

Hi,
I personally believe, spoil the charm aquarium angelfish, smaller-sized fish are most recommended. Large fish, will give the impression of a common tank.


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

my hardscape is gone. way too much downoi


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

*Snails or snail-less?*

As the tank is totally snail free (as in pest snails) and having a diatom outbreak, I have noticed an interesting occurrence between this tank and my 13g with snails.

Every diatom covered trimming I've grown into the 13g has every drop of brown diatoms cleaned off by a multitude of trumpets, ramshorn and bladder snails. They get every little spot an oto can't. Granted I need more Otos anyways but I'm wondering if it's worth it to purposely introduce "pest" snails. Not that I consider them pests anyways, just ugly.

To snail or not to snail this tank?


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

forgot to add a pic, its kinda ugly though. wood is new, just playing around :icon_smil


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

did some overdue maintenance. left the GSA on the back left, its caused by another tank light right beside it, gets too much spill on that corner. confirmed the need for frequent foreground trimming....grows and spreads way too quick.










getting some breeding behavior, possibly actual breeding of the lemons. a fully colored male with fins erect/vertical is a pretty site to see. trying to get some pics of it...this is one of the males, but nothing special, and dont mind the 7up look lol


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

couple fish pics.


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## clau74 (Apr 21, 2012)

Hi,
Hello Solmons.
Fish are beautiful, the plants are green and healthy. You have a successful tank. Longer intended to use angelfish?


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

clau74 said:


> Hi,
> Hello Solmons.
> Fish are beautiful, the plants are green and healthy. You have a successful tank. Longer intended to use angelfish?


thanks clau! still working on it, not quite where i want it yet. 

decided to leave my angelfish in my other tank


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

diatoms are finally starting to fade out. 

not really what i was going for, too many plants really...need a real big trim on at the least the l. arcuata, kinda want to trim out some crypts...


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## jeremyTR (Mar 21, 2012)

Amazing tank!

Sent from my HTC Evo 4G


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

jeremyTR said:


> Amazing tank!
> 
> Sent from my HTC Evo 4G


Thanks! Means alot, since I see it everyday I kinda thinks it "meh", really lacks a main focal point


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

Added some new livestock yesterday. Tank now houses:

-7 Rummynose
-5 lemon tetras
-6 CPD's
-6 Otos
-6 Dicrossus Maculata
-3 Amano shrimp
- possibly one SS CRS (haven't seen it in over a month)

Really liking the checkerboards, nice to have something with some personality and attitude rather than just a bunch of dithers frantically swimming around


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

fts










top view










ugly pic but got the colors that are starting to show on a male


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

This is a work of bushy art.

Were you ever able to locate the CRS?


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

WOW thats alot of downoi! it looks great


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

somewhatshocked said:


> This is a work of bushy art.
> 
> Were you ever able to locate the CRS?


Thanks! Still haven't seen the CRS, only saw it once about 3 weeks after I put it in, been at least 5 weeks since then. Presumed dead or cichlid food now. Don't ask why I tossed it in there haha, was a late night "idea"



orchidman said:


> WOW thats alot of downoi! it looks great


Thanks orchidman, downoi has spread like fire, however it's gotten so tall and left untrimmed I'm fairly sure its past the point of no return.


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## clau74 (Apr 21, 2012)

Hi,
Pictures of the tank very beautiful. Dicrossus Maculatus is more than interesting, I'm curious as shrimp understand!


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

thanks again clau. dicrossus are very interesting fish! very happy with them

the shrimp in there are amanos, and will actually try stealing food from any of the fish in there...there are quite large, had them for about 2 years now


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## clau74 (Apr 21, 2012)

Hi,
I am 6 Amano (2 females + 4 males) are resourceful and shrimp with a big appetite for food, efficient in fighting algae. Your Amano shrimp, have tried to reproduce, it takes special conditions this?


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

Found a lemon tetra fry tonight after a WC. couldn't believe my eyes....unreal really




























week old pics










poor left side tonia....


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

Lemon fry count now up to 5! Seeing more almost everyday it seems.....can't imagine there's too many more hiding. Taking tiny bits of flake already, the largest swims right out with the bigger fish!


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

Been awhile since an update, tank is still on cruise control, pulled the co2 several weeks ago. 

Lemon fry/juvie count is now 13-14 from what looks like two different batches. Pretty amazed that many made it with zero effort. 

Dicrossus are beginning to near sexual maturity, alot of color starting to show, little bit of agression between them as well. 

I'll toss up some pics later today, hard to capture their color but wow, really a site that can only be appreciated in person. Really hoping for some spawning. For wild fish I thought they would be a more finicky than they are.


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## Green_Flash (Apr 15, 2012)

very dense growth, it looks great


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## Amandas tank (Oct 2, 2012)

Very beautiful and lush! And awesome about the little Lemons!


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

Green_Flash said:


> very dense growth, it looks great


thanks, its almost too dense :icon_eek:



Amandas tank said:


> Very beautiful and lush! And awesome about the little Lemons!


thanks! definately a rewarding experience with the lemons.


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

some fish pics. anyone famiilar with sexing dicrossus please feel free to chime in.....


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

:icon_smil:icon_smil:icon_smil


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## fishboy199413 (Jan 20, 2010)

Wow congrats! Now the hard part comes because of the tricky fry rearing and hatching. Tank looks great as well.


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## clau74 (Apr 21, 2012)

Hi,
Are eggs on the leaf? Congratulations!


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

fishboy199413 said:


> Wow congrats! Now the hard part comes because of the tricky fry rearing and hatching. Tank looks great as well.


Thanks and yep, very tricky. As these are the first few spawns they are still learning how to properly care for and NOT eat them.



clau74 said:


> Hi,
> Are eggs on the leaf? Congratulations!


Hi clau, yep those are eggs. They seem to prefer crypt leaves as spawnIng sites. Thanks


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

Came home from work to the third spawn in last 4days. New female each time obviously. This one also chose a crypt leave, not as nicely laid out as the last go around, but better than the first female. 

Think I might just let them try to raise them in this tank as is, minus a buch of tetras. Tried incubating half of the last batch with no success, maybe a wiggler or two. Suspect it will take the females more than once to get it down. Last few clutches were observed being eaten, although slowly, by the mother throughout a period of 16 hrs.

Got a few pics of the recent spawn, but not much different than the last. I do have a pic of the male courting the female though.....


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)




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## Green_Flash (Apr 15, 2012)

Beautiful fish.


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## clau74 (Apr 21, 2012)

Hi,
Good job buddy, now you are proud of your fish!


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

Green_Flash said:


> Beautiful fish.


Thanks, they are really a striking fish, pics dont do them justice



clau74 said:


> Hi,
> Good job buddy, now you are proud of your fish!


Thanks clau! 

*********

my remaining two fry (had three) are doing great, the tank, not so much. due to human error, the tank went from 79-80f down to 68f in a period of 20 hours. two species of crypt didnt like that, and decided to melt. they fry survived, i dont know how.....but they are twice the size, can even make out the fins and pupils now. they are chowing on microfauna in a breeder box. :bounce:


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

things have "progressed" alot since my last fts. not exactly for the better either.....but it was much worse at one point. still some work left to do to get it nice again, but i still like it as is and thats all that matters. oh ya put three small angels in and removed all the lemon tetras


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## Green_Flash (Apr 15, 2012)

That looks much different indeed.


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

Green_Flash said:


> That looks much different indeed.


just a bit :hihi:

**************************

tweaked again, getting there...


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

current re-scape, still a work in progress i guess....and dont mind the dirty glass


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## Green_Flash (Apr 15, 2012)

Looking nicer, downoi in the front? I like the angels, specific type?


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

Green_Flash said:


> Looking nicer, downoi in the front? I like the angels, specific type?


thanks, still a work in progress. yep downoi. grows a bit slower without pressurized. not too sure on the angel specifics......they are a tad stunted though. didnt fare too well in my other tank while they were growing up










this guy is growing back his missing ventral since being in this tank. really like the colors


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Though I was in love with the design of your original scape, I knew that it going to outgrow the hardscape. I am loving the new layout. I honestly am not all that fond of woodscapes but the rocks really do it for me. I also am not a big fan of angle fish in a natural style tank but those look absolutely stunning. You did a great job convincing me of things I don't like. Seeing how this is a popular style, I am absolutely sure people are drooling and taking notes. Awesome job on the rescape.


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## Green_Flash (Apr 15, 2012)

Wow beautiful angels, I don't know much about breeds but those look like PB.


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

talontsiawd said:


> Though I was in love with the design of your original scape, I knew that it going to outgrow the hardscape. I am loving the new layout. I honestly am not all that fond of woodscapes but the rocks really do it for me. I also am not a big fan of angle fish in a natural style tank but those look absolutely stunning. You did a great job convincing me of things I don't like. Seeing how this is a popular style, I am absolutely sure people are drooling and taking notes. Awesome job on the rescape.


Definitely, you pretty much described my exact feelings with how my original plan panned out. Thanks for the feed back on the rescape! DW and rock is tricky yet fun. I can always easliy go back to just rockscape too, they're all the same rocks that were already in there



Green_Flash said:


> Wow beautiful angels, I don't know much about breeds but those look like PB.


ya not too sure.....they are much more colroful since being in this tank though :icon_smil

*********************************


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

looking pretty messy.


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## sapphoqueen (Feb 9, 2010)

hi there...  .. a very good start with lots of stuff and nice rocks ..... and...... you are now on the road for a bare tank? i don't get it man....


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## acitydweller (Dec 28, 2011)

There has been several successful scapes documented and now seem to be at a cross roads or in transition to yet another. Those stems in the rear dont really scale well in your tank so they detract from the overall look. Would you consider vals as a background replacement?

the foreground also needs a bit of life as well... but its definitely workable.


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## Bruce_S (Jul 26, 2012)

That's a good looking tank - and it's healthy, too, which is more important in the end!

I've got a similar angelfish here, which I adore. S/he was a local pet shop pickup, but has a similar pattern and coloring to yours, except for a couple of lightning-shaped stripes that earned it the nickname of "Potter". As for type, I'm thinking zebra black lace, with perhaps a touch of Philipine blue to bring that touch of reflective azure to dorsal, tail and ventrals.

~Bruce


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

sapphoqueen said:


> hi there...  .. a very good start with lots of stuff and nice rocks ..... and...... you are now on the road for a bare tank? i don't get it man....


ya, about the time i pulled the co2 and started focusing on breeding the dicrossus, the scape really started to decline. a rescape is in the works.....believe me i'm not happy with its current state. 



acitydweller said:


> There has been several successful scapes documented and now seem to be at a cross roads or in transition to yet another. Those stems in the rear dont really scale well in your tank so they detract from the overall look. Would you consider vals as a background replacement?
> 
> the foreground also needs a bit of life as well... but its definitely workable.


Thanks and your right, the scape needs work.....and co2. vals ive considered and have some, but doubt they would do well in here. there is some c. balansae tucked in the back corner, but it never took off. foreground really needs something, i agree. thanks for the feedback



Bruce_S said:


> That's a good looking tank - and it's healthy, too, which is more important in the end!
> 
> I've got a similar angelfish here, which I adore. S/he was a local pet shop pickup, but has a similar pattern and coloring to yours, except for a couple of lightning-shaped stripes that earned it the nickname of "Potter". As for type, I'm thinking zebra black lace, with perhaps a touch of Philipine blue to bring that touch of reflective azure to dorsal, tail and ventrals.
> 
> ~Bruce


interesting, thanks for the feedback on the angels. primary focus on the tank is all about the fish at them moment, thus the decline in the scape over the last several months. but hey, im still happy to look at it and thats all that counts right


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

nothing special. finally beat out two bad bouts of algae. still running w/o pressurized. main focus is still the fish. some of the female checkerboards are possibly showing male coloring....strange stuff


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## pandacory (Apr 18, 2011)

Any updates?

How long until the angels outgrow a tank this size?


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## Green_Flash (Apr 15, 2012)

I may be wrong but at about 40g and those type of angels, they should be fine for life? Only Altums I think require bigger tanks than those above 30g.


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

pandacory said:


> Any updates?
> 
> How long until the angels outgrow a tank this size?


tank is still running, although its nothing special, as i got been bitten by the SW bug, and devoting most of my effort to the reef. will try for a few pics later.

angels are actually a bit stunted, and will likely never outgrow this tank. no longer have a larger tank to move them to anyways.....



Green_Flash said:


> I may be wrong but at about 40g and those type of angels, they should be fine for life? Only Altums I think require bigger tanks than those above 30g.


ya sounds about right to me, maybe very healthy non-stunted wilds could outgrow this if fed very well. these wont be an issue


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)




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## skoram (Aug 9, 2012)

Your original scape was beautiful, especially in the pics you took shortly after flooding. New scape has a totally different feel but also quite beautiful in my opinion. I like the addition and placement of the driftwood. I'm not sure about some of the giant stems though. Someone else mentioned and I agree that they don't scale well with the size of your tank.

By the way, whatever happened with the dicrossus spawns?


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

skoram said:


> Your original scape was beautiful, especially in the pics you took shortly after flooding. New scape has a totally different feel but also quite beautiful in my opinion. I like the addition and placement of the driftwood. I'm not sure about some of the giant stems though. Someone else mentioned and I agree that they don't scale well with the size of your tank.
> 
> By the way, whatever happened with the dicrossus spawns?


thanks for the feedback. its not really a maintained aquascape anymore. agree on the stems. i just dont have elsewhere to put them.

unfortunately i lost all 6 discrossus a couple months ago, woke up one morning and they where all dead, angels and rummys were fine. narrowed the cause down to my heater issue and a type of food i had given them the day before. most painful loss to experience in the hobby....almost tore the tank down. i got as far as free swimmers with a batch i reared, and lost them about 4 days into free swimming.

replaced them with a pair of GBR's


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

Wow, it's been awhile!

Received a nano tank as a gift for christmas, and I guess the itch never really goes away when you've been bitten by the planted tank. Found my way back to this community after some interweb searching for the new project, and it was a huge pleasure to read through this journal to see all the ups and downs and everything that was learned. It's also very sad that the majority of the pics have been wiped (guess I failed to pay fotki enough money). There's a chance they're on a memory card, but finding that might be harder than convincing them to reinstate my account haha.

Anywho, to continue this journal (stoked it exists even) this build has been running the entire time. It's been though two moves since my last post, the movement of the aquasoil up front is very evident as a result. Has still been off C02 since I pulled it for the Dicrossus. It's been "low tech" for that many years. I burned out the initial 2217, and replaced it roughly two years ago. It's basically been on autopilot mode, pretty much top offs only and no considerable WCs. Tanks had a school of cards in there for about 5 years, and 6 or so black neons. All of which have survived the entire time through numerous power outages and general lack of caring for an "aquascape". Param testing hasn't occured in who knows how long.

Remaining plants are mostly just the original crypts, and some stems that took over. Just took a bunch out and also stole some of the ryouh stones for the nano. 

It's still running the exact same substrate. I've had a few thoughts the last few years about it depleting/dead tank syndrome? It's honestly been so long I don't even remember the terms haha. All the XML's are still working tirelessly with zero failure, and the DIM4 keeps it on sunrise/set flawlessly everyday. 

Sure, 7 years seems like a long time to make a rescape happen, but maybe its never too late to start. Really just wanted to share and update this journal, perhaps there's some form of take away in a sense. Having all the equipment and some CO2 regs collecting dust might make it really happen. Cheers TPT folk!


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