# Canister Filter- Media Layering Opinion



## howardryan12 (Dec 13, 2014)

I was wondering how everyone layers their media in their canisters. 


I'm planning on re-doing mine here soon and wanted to see what everyone had.

Currently mine is (from top to bottom)

Purigen Bag
Filter floss
Ceramic Media
Filter Pad
Ceramic Media/(Some other used media)
Filter Pad
Ceramic Media


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## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

Depends on the direction of flow in the filter imo.


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## howardryan12 (Dec 13, 2014)

Fair enough, 

This is assuming bottom to top flow


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## psych (Jan 7, 2013)

I run two filters, Eheim 2215 and 2217. Both are layered the way recommended by Eheim, though in the 2215 I added some batting material from walmart at the very top act as an extra layer of fine filtering.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

howardryan12 said:


> I'm planning on re-doing mine here soon and wanted to see what everyone had.


I only use sponges.


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## Freemananana (Jan 2, 2015)

Mechanical, biological, chemical; always in that order. Sponge, ceramic media, purigen.


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## nayr (Jan 18, 2014)

Freemananana said:


> Mechanical, biological, chemical; always in that order. Sponge, ceramic media, purigen.


this :iamwithst

I dont run floss, just sponge for mechanical.. water is cleaner because floss isint clogging up, and restricting or bypassing flow...


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## rebelbuck1993 (Sep 3, 2014)

ceramic rings, sponge, bio media, foam AC filter, floss


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## jonsnow (May 1, 2015)

nayr said:


> this :iamwithst
> 
> I dont run floss, just sponge for mechanical.. water is cleaner because floss isint clogging up, and restricting or bypassing flow...


Do most people do this? I've always hated how much the floss restricts flow, but I always thought it was kind of required to keep the water clear. How fine is the sponge you use?


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## AoxomoxoA (Apr 22, 2010)

Wasserpest said:


> I only use sponges.


:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Freemananana (Jan 2, 2015)

I use 15 PPI and 30 PPI foam. Purigen works wonders. You can probably use 45/50 PPI foam or something like that. 30 PPI foam is used in air filters in the automotive world, so that is as fine as I go. Filter floss is just too much hassle for me.


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## lksdrinker (Feb 12, 2014)

howardryan12 said:


> I was wondering how everyone layers their media in their canisters.
> 
> 
> I'm planning on re-doing mine here soon and wanted to see what everyone had.
> ...





howardryan12 said:


> Fair enough,
> 
> This is assuming bottom to top flow





Freemananana said:


> Mechanical, biological, chemical; always in that order. Sponge, ceramic media, purigen.



I'll have to agree with Freemananana....which means the OP needs to change around his filter setup. There is no need to sandwich biological media (ceramic) in between the mechanical (pads or floss). You want the pads or floss to mechanically catch the big stuff *before* it ever reaches the biological ceramic. The water should essentially be clean and free of debris before it hits the ceramic media or the purigen.


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

Nufoam densified polyester comes in 15 X 17 X 2 inches thick at Walmart/Hobby lobby.
This is last thing the water in my canister's pass through.
Foam pads before this ,and ceramic media in the bottom as first thing debri comes in contact with. (Eheim mechnic something or other)
Set up just like one of two option's pictured on the box the filter(s) came in.(Eheim classic's)
Work's well for my need's.


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## eXsaNiTy (May 12, 2015)

Freemananana said:


> Mechanical, biological, chemical; always in that order. Sponge, ceramic media, purigen.





lksdrinker said:


> I'll have to agree with Freemananana....which means the OP needs to change around his filter setup. There is no need to sandwich biological media (ceramic) in between the mechanical (pads or floss). You want the pads or floss to mechanically catch the big stuff *before* it ever reaches the biological ceramic. The water should essentially be clean and free of debris before it hits the ceramic media or the purigen.


If I'm running a sponge prefilter, do I need the filter foam pads in the canister?


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## nayr (Jan 18, 2014)

jonsnow said:


> Do most people do this? I've always hated how much the floss restricts flow, but I always thought it was kind of required to keep the water clear. How fine is the sponge you use?


Ive got a pre-filter on inlet pipe and a pretty coarse sponge.. IMHO Purigen does more to keep the water clear than filter floss.. Next time your in your canister discard the floss and give it a try.. I bet you'll be pleasantly surprised.

My canister has enough GPH that when the floss clogged up it started shredding and shooting little white fibers into my water column.. dont need nearly as much maintenance with it removed and water is still nice and clear.


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## jonsnow (May 1, 2015)

nayr said:


> Ive got a pre-filter on inlet pipe and a pretty coarse sponge.. IMHO Purigen does more to keep the water clear than filter floss.. Next time your in your canister discard the floss and give it a try.. I bet you'll be pleasantly surprised.
> 
> My canister has enough GPH that when the floss clogged up it started shredding and shooting little white fibers into my water column.. dont need nearly as much maintenance with it removed and water is still nice and clear.


I was under the impression that Purigen was a chemical filtration method, not mechanical. I don't want to be removing fertilizers from the water column, so why would I use it? How does it help with mechanical filtration, which is what I thought the floss was for?


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## Freemananana (Jan 2, 2015)

It is a chemical filtration, but it keeps things out of the water column. It works similar to mechanical filtration in that sense, but it does it through a different means. I don't believe it will hurt your fertilizers at all. Nor does it affect your bacterial colony.

Basically, you use foam to catch the large particles, finer foam to catch the smaller particles, then pass it through your bio media, and finally you run it through purigen to polish it crystal clear. Purigen is a chemical and many people use it with great success. It is less than $10 for purigen in a bag that will treat up to 100g of water.


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## jonsnow (May 1, 2015)

According to Seachem's website, "Purigen® controls ammonia, nitrites and nitrates by removing nitrogenous organic waste that would otherwise release these harmful compounds."

It sounds to me as thought Purigen will lower the nitrate levels in my tank, which would cause a nutrient deficiency in plants. Since I'm not sure of the effect of this I am going to stay away from Purigen in my canister filter. 

It is possible that Purigen only removes the precursors to nitrates (fish poop, food, dead plants) from the water column, leaving actual nitrates in the water column unaffected, but the Seachem description is kind of ambiguous so I wouldn't count on it.

Have you noticed any changes in the nitrate levels in your tank during your use of Purigen?


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## Freemananana (Jan 2, 2015)

My nitrates were nearly 0 when I added it because it was a 'new' tank. It is too soon to tell for me.

"Physico-chemical forces (tiny electric charges) trap the particles. This can be roughly explained by using two magnets - the "+" charged side of one of the magnets attracts the "-" charged side of the other. But two "+" sides push each other away. 
Iron for example is charged "+" (Fe2+ or even Fe3+) and if the Purigen beads are charged "+" iron will not be attracted.

The resin (Purigen) is engineered and made in such a way that the physico-chemical forces attract and "keep" only particles with certain electric charges. Resins can be "recharged" because of that - by mixing the resin with some chemical that pulls stronger the same particles that the resin absorbs"

Not me but I am not sure if linking outside sites is allowed.


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## jonsnow (May 1, 2015)

I may test some out while keeping an eye on my plants and parameters to see what happens. Gotta wait for my new tank to become a little more stable though.


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## Beefy (Mar 6, 2015)

jonsnow said:


> It sounds to me as thought Purigen will lower the nitrate levels in my tank, which would cause a nutrient deficiency in plants. Since I'm not sure of the effect of this I am going to stay away from Purigen in my canister filter.


Most people would say that the actual nitrogen lowering effect of Purigen is very minimal; it gets rid of protein waste and other nitrogenous organics before they are able to break down. The amount of nitrate that would be added in any fertilizer dosing scheme or even fish ammonia excretion would far outweigh the loss. But the proteins and nitrogenous organics do contribute significantly to the 'haze' present in most tanks - it really does make the water crystal clear. And purigen is not like carbon, which indiscriminately removes traces nutrients.

I was skeptical initially, but am now a true believer.


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## nayr (Jan 18, 2014)

Purigen is perfectly fine in a Planted Tank, my tank is stocked well enough I dont dose much if any nitrogen.. with or without purigen I didnt notice an impact on Nitrate levels.

It removes tannins in the water and other organics that effect water clarity and color.. filter floss wont do much if anything to remove those in comparison.


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## lksdrinker (Feb 12, 2014)

nayr said:


> Ive got a pre-filter on inlet pipe and a pretty coarse sponge.. IMHO Purigen does more to keep the water clear than filter floss.. Next time your in your canister discard the floss and give it a try.. I bet you'll be pleasantly surprised.
> 
> My canister has enough GPH that when the floss clogged up it started shredding and shooting little white fibers into my water column.. dont need nearly as much maintenance with it removed and water is still nice and clear.


Whether or not purigen makes the water clear does not mean it is literally filtering out debris. When all the debris in your tank goes through the filter it is going to stick/get caught on something. If you have no sponge or filter floss, the debris is going to get stuck on the bio media. As the bio media gets clogged up with crap it looses the one thing it is designed for which is having surface area for the beneficial bacteria to live/thrive/grow on. Its one of those things that you wont notice right away; but months/years of crap collecting on the bio media can eventually lead to problems.


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## nayr (Jan 18, 2014)

Re-Read my first sentence.. I use a Pre-Filter and Sponge for mechanical filtering.. Not sure where your getting the idea I am not running either.

Ive noticed absolutely no improvement in water clairity running Filter Floss, that was my point.. Purigen made a huge impact on the other hand.

My bio-media is basically rocks, so not sure how it looses surface area if they are dirty... but Ive been using them for years and havent cleaned them off and Ive never had so much as a mini-cycle since this tank was established.


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## SilverRubicon (Apr 11, 2015)

roadmaster said:


> Nufoam densified polyester comes in 15 X 17 X 2 inches thick at Walmart/Hobby lobby.


Isn't the nu-foam flame resistant? Or is there a non chemically treated version?


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

SilverRubicon said:


> Isn't the nu-foam flame resistant? Or is there a non chemically treated version?


 Yes,nearly all polyester is flame resistant anymore.
I have used the stuff for a few year's without issues regarding fishes,shrimps.
Hell,you could stuff the filter's with pot scrubbies,shower scrubbies if the polyester scares ya.


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## jonsnow (May 1, 2015)

So I've decided to get rid of my filter floss. So right now I will have a coarse filter and Matrix in my canister filters. I want to add Purigen and a fine mechanical filter. But I have some questions. 

1. I don't think I can buy off the shelf fine filters for my SunSun 303B and 304B canister filters, so I will have to make them. Is the nufoam stuff the best option, or are there better/cheaper alternatives?

2. For the Purigen, is the best bet to buy the Purigen in bulk, say 500mL, and buy the filter bags separately, or just buy the 100mL packs that come with bags? If I should buy in bulk what is the best/cheapest option for filter bags?


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## Freemananana (Jan 2, 2015)

jonsnow said:


> So I've decided to get rid of my filter floss. So right now I will have a coarse filter and Matrix in my canister filters. I want to add Purigen and a fine mechanical filter. But I have some questions.
> 
> 1. I don't think I can buy off the shelf fine filters for my SunSun 303B and 304B canister filters, so I will have to make them. Is the nufoam stuff the best option, or are there better/cheaper alternatives?
> 
> 2. For the Purigen, is the best bet to buy the Purigen in bulk, say 500mL, and buy the filter bags separately, or just buy the 100mL packs that come with bags? If I should buy in bulk what is the best/cheapest option for filter bags?


1. Cutting your own is cheap. I bought 15ppi and 30ppi, 2" thick, 12"x24", foam pads on a bidding site for $13 shipped recently. I used the filter floss that came with my canister as an outline.

2. Do not buy in bulk (my opinion). Just buy a 100ml pack in a bag and it will last years. They suggest cleaning/recharging it every 3-8 months or something like that. It changes color and you just have to soak it in bleach, then treat it heavily with prime until it is white again. A single pack can last years if you recharge it; they can be recharged up to 10 times or so according to Seachem.

I have no experience with the filter bags, but Purigen is very fine.


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## rebelbuck1993 (Sep 3, 2014)

get some course foam from a site then if you have a walmart, lowes, or homedepot, get this ac foam filter for a fine filter $ .97 at walmart. EDIT the floss behind this helps to clear the water and never really gets dirty due to the black ac foam under this







[/URL][/IMG]


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## lksdrinker (Feb 12, 2014)

nayr said:


> Re-Read my first sentence.. I use a Pre-Filter and Sponge for mechanical filtering.. Not sure where your getting the idea I am not running either.
> 
> Ive noticed absolutely no improvement in water clairity running Filter Floss, that was my point.. Purigen made a huge impact on the other hand.
> 
> My bio-media is basically rocks, so not sure how it looses surface area if they are dirty... but Ive been using them for years and havent cleaned them off and Ive never had so much as a mini-cycle since this tank was established.


You might use a pre filter and sponge but others dont necessarily; and you suggested to someone else to simply remove their filter floss and run purigen. While purigen might make the water clear it cant physically remove debris from the tank (well I guess some debris could get stuck in it, but thats not the intended purpose). The "rocks" you're using for bio media contain tons of tiny little holes for the beneficial bacteria to grow on. Those holes can and will get clogged up over time with debris. This can result in less area for beneficial bacteria to live. Wont happen overnight, and you may never see a problem because of it. That doesnt mean it cant potentially turn into a problem.


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## jonsnow (May 1, 2015)

Freemananana said:


> 1. Cutting your own is cheap. I bought 15ppi and 30ppi, 2" thick, 12"x24", foam pads on a bidding site for $13 shipped recently. I used the filter floss that came with my canister as an outline.
> 
> 2. Do not buy in bulk (my opinion). Just buy a 100ml pack in a bag and it will last years. They suggest cleaning/recharging it every 3-8 months or something like that. It changes color and you just have to soak it in bleach, then treat it heavily with prime until it is white again. A single pack can last years if you recharge it; they can be recharged up to 10 times or so according to Seachem.
> 
> I have no experience with the filter bags, but Purigen is very fine.


Searching ebay I really cannot find anything. The listings either don't have ppi specifications, the pads are two small or waaaay to big, or the prices are ridiculous. I think I'm going to try walmart and see what I can find, the AC air filters look like they could be a good choice.

I think I'm also going with the 500mL of Purigen for two canister filters. Even if 100mL is effective it sounds like such a small amount. I think I fit over 2L of matrix in one of my filters, so I'm not sure if 100mL would even cover the surface area (about 11" x 11") effectively. I think I'm going to purchase a couple of "Boyd Enterprises ABE16720 2-Pack Chemi-Bags with Ties for Aquarium" from Amazon for filter bags. I'll end up spending about 30 bucks instead of 20, but I'll get a more than double the amount of Purigen and 4 filter bags instead of 2. Seems like a good trade off to me.


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## Freemananana (Jan 2, 2015)

Any foam will work as long as water will flow through it at the rate of which your return pump pumps. I've never had issues with anything I've used.


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## rebelbuck1993 (Sep 3, 2014)

jonsnow said:


> Searching ebay I really cannot find anything. The listings either don't have ppi specifications, the pads are two small or waaaay to big, or the prices are ridiculous. I think I'm going to try walmart and see what I can find, the AC air filters look like they could be a good choice.
> 
> I think I'm also going with the 500mL of Purigen for two canister filters. Even if 100mL is effective it sounds like such a small amount. I think I fit over 2L of matrix in one of my filters, so I'm not sure if 100mL would even cover the surface area (about 11" x 11") effectively. I think I'm going to purchase a couple of "Boyd Enterprises ABE16720 2-Pack Chemi-Bags with Ties for Aquarium" from Amazon for filter bags. I'll end up spending about 30 bucks instead of 20, but I'll get a more than double the amount of Purigen and 4 filter bags instead of 2. Seems like a good trade off to me.


@walmart .97$ Ducks AC filter nice tight foam







[/URL][/IMG] i use it alot and have been using it for a long time on my saltwater tanks i had,


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## Italionstallion888 (Jun 29, 2013)

From bottom to top

Course foam, sphagnum moss, med foam, media, pillow stuffing.


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## jonsnow (May 1, 2015)

rebelbuck1993 said:


> @walmart .97$ Ducks AC filter nice tight foam
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I just purchased these. Hopefully they work out well.

I could not find any NuFoam in walmart, I think that I found something very comparable, but it was 15 dollars a roll and when I tried blowing through it there was a lot of resistance, so I thought it might be too dense to put in my filter.


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

I have one Walmart out of two in town that carries the Nufoam polyester in the 15 X 17 inch X 2 inch square.
Hobby lobby carries same thing ,but theirs is already separated into two packs 15 X 17 X 1 inches.
The other Walmart in town maybe a mile from my house never has the stuff, just foam pads which are too dense for water to pass through ,or the rolled polyester batting.
The walamart that does carry it is clear on the otherside of town. @$&^!
I have used the batting in a pinch but it sticks to the foam pad's in the filter and is a pain to get off them.
I very much like the mention of the AC filter material posted above,,and this would be easy to cut to size.
note... The use of shrap fabric shear's also found at walmart (fisk brand) saves a lot of blister's if cutting foam pad replacement's for more than a couple filter's.
Use dull scissor's ,,and it ain't much fun.


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