# Plans for first planted tank (input appreciated)



## shloken38 (Aug 17, 2012)

All seems pretty good. I have a low tech 29 myself, and everything runs pretty nicely. As far as plants, a lot are hit and miss I have found. You really need to figure out what your water is like first. For instance, watersprite and wisteria are "easy, low tech plants", but I can't grow them in my tank at all. I do have plenty of other plants that do really well though.

Maybe others can chime in on this one, but you might want to wait on the neons for awhile. I have heard that they don't do well in newly set up tanks. What type of shrimp are you thinking about? Guppies may or may not go after them.....I've heard different views on that one also. Are you going with male/female guppies? They freaking breed like crazy! I have two females, and it seems like they drop fry every couple of days.....hahaha. Fishless cycle (I hope)?

And always remember.....bigger is ALWAYS better....if not for water parameter stability, then just for the fact that you can have more fish (you WILL become addicted!).


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## lullafishi (Dec 13, 2012)

Thanks for the response, shloken38!

Yes, I figure I need to figure out the water parameters before I can really commit to any type of plant or fish. Do I need to look just for the pH, GH, and KH of my tap water, or should I be testing for other elements as well? 

I'm planning on doing a fishless cycle and am willing to be patient waiting for stability with any type of inhabitants if necessary. That's good to know that neons might be too sensitive for a new tank!

I'll be very interested to hear about people's experiences with guppies and shrimp. I've got three (all male) guppies right now that get along well in an unplanted 2 gallon, and I'd love to give them a better environment. But I also think I would be fascinated with watching shrimp, so I wouldn't want to risk a bad match. As for type of shrimp, I'd probably have easiest access to cherry shrimp. Color makes me happy, but I'm open to whatever type is best suited for beginners. 

If I keep guppies in the tank, I'd probably stick with however many males I can have without them beating each other up. I'm excited by the prospect of fry, just not guppy fry, haha.


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## shloken38 (Aug 17, 2012)

To be honest, I only check for the basics (ph, ammonia, nitrites and nitrates), so I wouldn't be able to help you with the other stuff. That's why plants are probably trial and error for me.

As far as shrimp go, red cherries are your best bet as a beginner. I started with 10 in my 10 gallon tank, and I have close to 100 in there now. There are fascinating to watch, that's for sure. And they are fearless! Every time I stick my hand in there for something, they all rush over and start crawling up my arm.


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## lullafishi (Dec 13, 2012)

Indecision, indecision!

I went to Petco last night and left empty-handed because I couldn't decide between the 20l, 29g, and 40b in the ten minutes before the store closed. I like the proportions of the 20l and 40b, but I feel I'd want something bigger than 20l. And the 40b would add a bit of cost due to needing the next size up in lighting fixture, more substrate, and possibly a supplementary HOB filter. Plus, we're in a rental, and I'd hate to have to lug a larger tank around until we finally settle.

I'm finding I like tanks that look like they are a "miniature scale" scene, but it doesn't seem like I'd have enough luck to do a carpet without C02 to pull of an iwagumi style. If I find tall pieces of driftwood and attach moss/plants to the branches, is it possible to make good use of the vertical space of a 29g and still create a "miniature" world?

I am also now torn between the Fluval 306 and Eheim Classic 2217. Both seem very comparable. I was initially going for the Fluval because it was $20 cheaper, seemed more beginner/user-friendly, and the media baskets sound easier to maintain. But since Hydor's in-line heaters come in 1/2" or 5/8", I'd have to buy new hosing, clamps, and rubber adapters to fit it in-line with the 306's 3/4" hosing measurements. Those additional parts would make the set-up between the 306 and 2217 about the same price.

How do you people ever decide on anything?!


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## shloken38 (Aug 17, 2012)

Just impulse buy.....then keep adding tanks! hahaha.....

Can't help you with your decision. Bigger is always better, but I understand moving that bigger tank is more of an issue. Tough call....


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## bikinibottom (Nov 18, 2012)

lullafishi said:


> Indecision, indecision!
> 
> I went to Petco last night and left empty-handed because I couldn't decide between the 20l, 29g, and 40b in the ten minutes before the store closed. I like the proportions of the 20l and 40b, but I feel I'd want something bigger than 20l. And the 40b would add a bit of cost due to needing the next size up in lighting fixture, more substrate, and possibly a supplementary HOB filter. Plus, we're in a rental, and I'd hate to have to lug a larger tank around until we finally settle.
> 
> ...


I have the Fluval 306 on a 40-gal and it's considered by some to be overkill. I love this filter b/c it's very easy to use. I bought a 206 for a 20-gal I'm going to set up. So in answer to your question re: an extra HOB, I really don't think you need it.

I can guarantee you that no matter what size you get -- 20 gal, 200 gal, 500 gallon.... you will always want something bigger. ALWAYS. So that being said, I would say just get what you can comfortably afford. Also, something that a lot of people tend to neglect is the number of electrical receptacles they have. Every time you add a heater, add a set of lights, add a pump/airstone, etc... that's another plug. Make sure you have space for your setup, and have enough plugs in close proximity. And using multiple power strips can be dangerous, so try not to plan to use more than one in an outlet. I'm sure even that has got its problems.

Oh, and not sure about the heater -- do you really need 200w on a 29-gal?

Guppies -- if you really really really like guppies and want to figure out what to do with 20 babies every few weeks -- then go for it. I put 4 guppies in my tank (1 male, 3 females) and a week later had nearly 20 babies swimming around. I bought 2 pearl gouramis and they have gotten the baby population down to about 5 or 6. I'm not interested in doubling my guppy population every month and having to figure out what to do with them so hopefully the gouramis will keep eating them!


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## lullafishi (Dec 13, 2012)

shloken38 said:


> Just impulse buy.....then keep adding tanks! hahaha.....
> 
> Can't help you with your decision. Bigger is always better, but I understand moving that bigger tank is more of an issue. Tough call....


Haha, I've found I rarely impulse buy (unless it's junk food). Instead, I research and stress over the details and waver in uncertainty and then FINALLY commit after I've annoyed all my friends (and not to mention myself). It works out well in the end because I've made thought-out/educated decisions, but man the process is annoying! 



bikinibottom said:


> I have the Fluval 306 on a 40-gal and it's considered by some to be overkill. I love this filter b/c it's very easy to use. I bought a 206 for a 20-gal I'm going to set up. So in answer to your question re: an extra HOB, I really don't think you need it.


That's good to hear, thanks! I keep reading that over-filtering is the best way to go and it can always be adjusted with quick-stops or a spray bar. I guess I figured the 306 was over-kill for a 20g, but maybe only just sufficient for a 40b.



bikinibottom said:


> I can guarantee you that no matter what size you get -- 20 gal, 200 gal, 500 gallon.... you will always want something bigger. ALWAYS. So that being said, I would say just get what you can comfortably afford.


I keep hearing this, too, which really starts pushing me to getting the 40b. It would really only about $70 more in equipment (+$38 for next size up in lighting, +$10 for larger tank, +$22 for another bag of sand assuming I go with potting soil over all sand to save some $). But I guess it would also take more $ to stock with plants. How important is it to start heavily planted, or can I gradually add more as funds allow?

Thanks for the head's up about electrical outlets, I hadn't considered that either!



bikinibottom said:


> Oh, and not sure about the heater -- do you really need 200w on a 29-gal?


I liked the idea of an in-line to keep the tank more open and so I don't have to worry as much about accuracy (as long as I tape the dial so it doesn't accidentally get bumped). I'm big on aesthetics.  Would 200w still be too much on a 40b? I could probably have better luck hiding a submersible to my liking on the 40b.

Re: guppies... if I can safely keep them (and shrimp) in one tank, I'll stick with all male guppies. Pretty much I am very attached to my current three males, who get along swimmingly (lawl).


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## lullafishi (Dec 13, 2012)

According to Lowe's PAR charts for the Finnex Fugeray, if I go with a 36" fixture to fit a 40b... I'll have a PAR around 50-60, which I'm assuming is too high light for not having c02. Is that right? It looks like even suspending it will be too much light?

And if I'd have to suspend the 36" anyway for a 40b, is it possible to suspend the 30" instead over a 36" long tank and stay within low light without having dark corners?


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## 3OHA CYMPAKA (Aug 16, 2012)

For the lightening u can try this, i do that myself. This is my firs Aq 30l 

You need just tube for savage (just cut in on half horizontally), and one part to close it (then you cut that on half , and u have half part for both end, fix that with super glue)
Then u need one lath,on that u put neon light ... That lath u fasten with 4 srew (u dont have to fasten directlz in lath, enought is just to tighter on screw)


I put masking tape on top... And aluminium foil inside, to reflect light


Sorry because my english


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## Tylt33 (Feb 14, 2010)

I have a setup very similar to what you're planning. I went with MTS capped with STS from Tractor Supply. The best combo of price and functionality; no dosing, looks great, cheap.

I have the 36" Fugeray 2 over a 75g, which is 20" tall. I planted heavy, never had an algae outbreak, I've only scraped the glass once in the two or so months I've had the tank. No water changes, and about fifty fish.

I grow crypts, anubias, all types of swords, various hygros, and some other junk. If you are worried about too much light, get some DWL or Frogbit to provide shade. Just FYI I picked up two Fluval 306s at Petsmart and Petco for $80 each; good sales are always around the corner.

Get e 40 breeder


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## Tylt33 (Feb 14, 2010)

Fwiw, I moved a 210g reef setup across town; it's not as bad as you think, not a reason to dodge going from a 20 to a 40. And honestly, I think the best thing you can do is use RO/DI water from the get go. It will save you a lot of testing, algae, and guessing down the road. A little bit of a hassle to start, but works well in the long run.


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## bikinibottom (Nov 18, 2012)

lullafishi said:


> According to Lowe's PAR charts for the Finnex Fugeray, if I go with a 36" fixture to fit a 40b... I'll have a PAR around 50-60, which I'm assuming is too high light for not having c02. Is that right? It looks like even suspending it will be too much light?
> 
> And if I'd have to suspend the 36" anyway for a 40b, is it possible to suspend the 30" instead over a 36" long tank and stay within low light without having dark corners?


Is that PAR at the top of the tank or at the bottom?

i like tylt33's suggestion to use floating plants to shade your tank if you're worried about the light level. I put 3 small water sprites in my tank about 2-3 weeks ago, and now I already have at least 6 of them, and the original 3 have more than doubled in size. The roots hang down, it looks very cool, and the fish love it. And it's one of those things that is easy to weed out if you get too many of them -- just pluck them off the top. 

Something else you can do is put window screen at the top of your tank, or right at your light. I read on here that it reduces PAR by ~40% (60% if you put 2 layers of screen). It's cheap and you can buy it at Lowe's or HD. I have it on my low-tech tank (40-gal long, 16 inches deep), which has 108w Tek T5, and I have no problems with algae and after a month everything is still lush and green.

But with your PAR level, I'm guessing you will only need one or the other -- plants or screen.


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## Saxtonhill (Dec 28, 2012)

Lullafishi, I'm a newbie here too. In fact, this is my first post. I've had fish for nearly 40 years (since I was a kid) but always very low tech and almost always goldfish. I have a 60 gallon to fill and in no hurry to do it yet...would eventually like to have a lushly planted aquascape...maybe an Amazon habitat of some kind with angelfish, cory cats and black neons. But for the time being I am learning on my 20 gallon with Java fern, anubias and some Java moss... I am currently studying more about water and lighting conditions. I have 6 aeneus cory cats and 6 black neons in the 20 gallon; they are all very active. 

I have 2 other aquariums. The 30 gallon has three large fantail goldfish. The 40 gallon has 5 large comet goldfish. 

Very thankful for this forum!!! I'll be going back to lurking, reading and studying


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## lullafishi (Dec 13, 2012)

3OHA CYMPAKA said:


> For the lightening u can try this, i do that myself. This is my firs Aq 30l


Thanks for the suggestion! I prefer not to go the DIY route with lighting because... I don't know anything about electrical wiring and I don't really have the right tools. So I wouldn't be comfortable trying something like that, though it looks like it works great for you!

*Tylt33*: I'd totally go the STS route, but I've really fallen for the black substrate look. I considered using Black Diamond blasting grit, but those fine needles aren't all that appealing to me. I'm going to start looking in to MTS or at least MGOPS. Do you have the Ray2 or a Fugeray, and are you using c02? And is a RO/DI system DIYable? Good to know about the frequent Fluval sales, too! I think they were that price for Black Friday. I only started researching equipment prices just after Thanksgiving, so I'm not familiar with what's a good holiday deal or what's average yet.

*bikinibottom*: You know, I'm not really sure! I was using Lowe's PAR chart for the fugerays, and I'm assuming it would be at substrate-level since the 40b is 16" tall. I'm estimating substrate to be around 3", but the fixture's legs have the light about 3" above the top. So that's still a depth of 16".

Great suggestion about the window screen or floating plants to reduce light! I didn't realize that could be done, but it makes sense. I wouldn't be opposed to using floaters, and even like the idea of plants growing emerged. Is the window screen something that can be attached to a fugeray instead of covering the tank?

*Saxtonhill*: Welcome! I've been learning a lot at this forum; it's a wealth of information and ideas!


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## bikinibottom (Nov 18, 2012)

lullafishi said:


> Is the window screen something that can be attached to a fugeray instead of covering the tank?


Yes, supposedly there is no difference. By some weird chance I happened to have a window screen in a wood frame that almost perfectly fits the top of my tank so I just set it on the tank (it leaves a few inches of space between the top of the water and the screen). But I've been considering growing emersed plants, so I'm pondering how I can put the screen at the light. I have a plexiglass piece that covers the lights so I've been considering putting the screen along with the plexiglass.


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## jpalimpsest (Dec 7, 2012)

With tanks, I say that bigger is almost always better. In my experience, if you go small, you'll quickly find that you need (okay, want) to upgrade. Fish keeping is an addiction, be prepared :icon_wink


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## lullafishi (Dec 13, 2012)

I bought the 40 breeder and I'm already glad I did!

Now I'm trying to decide between the Eheim 2217 and Fluval 306 for it. 

I'll also probably go for the Finnex Fugeray 36" and add a window screen and/or floaters to keep it appropriate for low light, no c02.


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## Tylt33 (Feb 14, 2010)

lullafishi said:


> *Tylt33*: I'd totally go the STS route, but I've really fallen for the black substrate look. I considered using Black Diamond blasting grit, but those fine needles aren't all that appealing to me. I'm going to start looking in to MTS or at least MGOPS. Do you have the Ray2 or a Fugeray, and are you using c02? And is a RO/DI system DIYable? Good to know about the frequent Fluval sales, too! I think they were that price for Black Friday. I only started researching equipment prices just after Thanksgiving, so I'm not familiar with what's a good holiday deal


I have the Fugeray, and I don't use co2. Floating plants can often be had for free from the RAOK section here. RO//DI units are an investment up front, but totally worth it in the long run IMO.


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## lullafishi (Dec 13, 2012)

Just purchased the Eheim 2217 (for $113) and a 200w Hydor in-line heater (for only $36) from Big Al's with their Christmas pricing and a 10% coupon! I figured the 2217 was only a few dollars more than the Petco Fluval 306 deal, but I wouldn't have to mess around with new hosing or adapters to hook up the heater to the 306.


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