# What's the point of Flourite/Eco if tabs have to be added?



## vnghost (Sep 21, 2012)

For 40 bucks you can buy 1000 gel caps and a jug of osmocote plus and make your own root tabs way better than the flourish tabs. All substrates have their advantage and disadvantage. Eco complete is inert minus the water it's packaged in, high cec. Lets you take advantage of what you want to put into your substrate 


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## BenderBendingRodriguez (Aug 29, 2009)

From my understanding these substrates have high CEC (cation exchange capacity), i.e. the substrate is able to hold onto ferts that you put into the water column and since the substrate is holding onto these ferts it makes your substrate more fertile. I don't think it's indefinite, but I think that it kind of acts as a buffer so if you were to not fertilize for a few days your plants wouldn't get hungry. At least that's how I understand it.

Plus I think flourite looks nice for whatever that's worth.


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## GOJIRADOR (Mar 28, 2012)

Ive had success growing dwarf hair grass, HC, rotala and ludwigia in flourite with out the addition of ferts so I dont think it has to have tabs


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## Java Moss (Jan 17, 2011)

Thanks folks. 

Spoke to a LFS owner who grows low maintenance plants and he said "Tabs are necessary as a stop gap until the roots take hold of the substrate. One box should be fine" 

That sounds do-able. So, I ordered 5 bags of black flourite for the same price sold on M.D. Pick them up on Tuesday. 

Hopefully it'll be okay for my dojos. I figure if regular pet store gravel doesn't bang up their barbels, then Flourite shouldn't either.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Root tabs aren't just necessary until the plants take root. They're necessary if you want to provide nutrients to your plants throughout the life of your tank. Typically every 2-3 months you'll have to apply them. However, with a high CEC substrate, you'll likely be able to apply fewer root tabs because the substrate will absorb some nutrients and begin to release them.

Flourite is rather soft, so it should be fine for their barbels.


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## TexasCichlid (Jul 12, 2011)

Eco-Complete has no nutrients. It has room for the storage of nutrients, though.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

somewhatshocked said:


> Root tabs aren't just necessary until the plants take root. They're necessary if you want to provide nutrients to your plants throughout the life of your tank.....


roud:roud:

"What's the point of Flourite/Eco if tabs have to be added?" That's why I use dirt.


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## Shimagoma (May 15, 2012)

Java Moss said:


> Thanks folks.
> 
> Spoke to a LFS owner who grows low maintenance plants and he said "Tabs are necessary as a stop gap until the roots take hold of the substrate. One box should be fine"
> 
> ...


florite is cracked clay and is very sharp you should put sand or mix it with some gravel if you have barbel fish going over it, like corys 



http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Flourite.html
shows you whats in it. It has def helped with my plants in general. I dont use tabs i just use liquid/powder foods


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## m00se (Jan 8, 2011)

Not necessary. Have you seen the native habitats of these fish?


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

Shimagoma said:


> florite is cracked clay and is very sharp you should put sand or mix it with some gravel if you have barbel fish going over it, like corys
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 it has lots of stuff in it, about 1% is actually accessable to plants, the rest is baked into i never to be seen
i've kept delicate barbelled fish with flourite that never had an issue


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## Knotyoureality (Aug 3, 2012)

Yep, I moved my corys from polished aquarium gravel onto flourite and--in direct constrast to all the claims of the damage it'd do--their barbels are longer and in better condition than they've ever been before.


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## jhays79 (Mar 28, 2012)

100 bucks for substrate? I think I will stick to 6 dollar bags of organic dirt.


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

> Why in the heck would Flourite or Eco be worth the trouble if it needs tabs?


For the same reason you have dinner plates and add food as needed.


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## m00se (Jan 8, 2011)

http://home.infinet.net/teban/jamie.htm


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## mitchfish9 (Apr 30, 2012)

haha my bag of dirt that I used on my tank was on sale for 1 dollar. Eco complete and flourite are ok, but roots do not love the texture as much as dirt, and it does not seem to use the fish waste in as good of a way as soil does. In a low tech setting, you don't have to worry about a dirt tank substrate for years... These companies just make a killing on people just getting into live plants(I was one of those people) only for them to learn they need put root tabs in every couple months. Dirt is the way to go in my opinion


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## longgonedaddy (Dec 9, 2012)

Java Moss said:


> Hopefully it'll be okay for my dojos. I figure if regular pet store gravel doesn't bang up their barbels, then Flourite shouldn't either.


My cories have been living on fluorite for a year, always had long barbels, and unless I screw up with ammonia, they always will.


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## Shimagoma (May 15, 2012)

longgonedaddy said:


> My cories have been living on fluorite for a year, always had long barbels, and unless I screw up with ammonia, they always will.


hah maybe my corys are just wusses, the fourite just made mine's dull so i covered it in a layer of sand and it helped. hehe.


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## jhays79 (Mar 28, 2012)

mitchfish9 said:


> haha my bag of dirt that I used on my tank was on sale for 1 dollar. Eco complete and flourite are ok, but roots do not love the texture as much as dirt, and it does not seem to use the fish waste in as good of a way as soil does. In a low tech setting, you don't have to worry about a dirt tank substrate for years... These companies just make a killing on people just getting into live plants(I was one of those people) only for them to learn they need put root tabs in every couple months. Dirt is the way to go in my opinion


Totally agree!


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

Shimagoma said:


> hah maybe my corys are just wusses, the fourite just made mine's dull so i covered it in a layer of sand and it helped. hehe.


water quality, and their search for food plays a big big roll
keep them decently fed and they wont scrounge so hard
keep water clean and they wil lstay healthy and grow tissue back better


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## csf (Jul 10, 2003)

No you don't. First hand knowledge with having Flourite for 15 years. I've got several corys that are perfectly happy with very long barbels.

As far as why you may need additional stuff in your substrate - well, look at terrestrial plants. Do they grow in fairly clean soil or fairly messy stuff? It's pretty messy and filled with organics and other nutrients. 

Flourite and others help add some of what plants need. Dose the water column + detritus and you end up having what the plants do need. If you start CO2 dosing and pushing up your light, you might need to do more, especially for heavy root feeders.

Root tabs for large swords, crypts, or other heavy root feeders is never a bad idea unless you plan to moving them around. Then it just gets the water column messy.

I've used Jobe's plant spikes for years w/ no ill effects. Even when they get pulled up - just be particular about a WC and sucking up the extra bits.




Shimagoma said:


> florite is cracked clay and is very sharp you should put sand or mix it with some gravel if you have barbel fish going over it, like corys
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## csf (Jul 10, 2003)

Dirt is great - but messy. If I knew I'd have a tank set up for years, and I didn't have 125 lbs of Flourite, I'd probably do a dirt + black sand substrate. 

I've done one for a couple years in a 20 gallon and it was a great tank. Grew everything well.

QUOTE=mitchfish9;2284297]haha my bag of dirt that I used on my tank was on sale for 1 dollar. Eco complete and flourite are ok, but roots do not love the texture as much as dirt, and it does not seem to use the fish waste in as good of a way as soil does. In a low tech setting, you don't have to worry about a dirt tank substrate for years... These companies just make a killing on people just getting into live plants(I was one of those people) only for them to learn they need put root tabs in every couple months. Dirt is the way to go in my opinion[/QUOTE]


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## jhays79 (Mar 28, 2012)

csf said:


> Dirt is great - but messy. If I knew I'd have a tank set up for years, and I didn't have 125 lbs of Flourite, I'd probably do a dirt + black sand substrate.
> 
> I've done one for a couple years in a 20 gallon and it was a great tank. Grew everything well.



That's the perfect excuse to get multiple tanks!:biggrin:


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## Shimagoma (May 15, 2012)

HD Blazingwolf said:


> water quality, and their search for food plays a big big roll
> keep them decently fed and they wont scrounge so hard
> keep water clean and they wil lstay healthy and grow tissue back better


they grew back fine as soon as i just dusted the rough patches with sand. it hasnt been an issue for a year heh


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## csf (Jul 10, 2003)

I never could get blyxa to grow in my flourite tank (peristaltic EI dosing, pressurized CO2, pH controller, 4x55W CF 75 gallon) - a medium light, high tech tank.

It great perfectly well in my cheap potting soil + red clay capped with pool filter sand 20g tank. It did have 1x55W (old) CF light and DIY CO2, but wasn't a very spiffy tank overall.

I assumed it was the roots didn't like the flourite. Now where'd I put those empty tanks!



jhays79 said:


> That's the perfect excuse to get multiple tanks!:biggrin:


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## csf (Jul 10, 2003)

Here's one of my corys. He's been in the tank for at least 4 years (I think, I don't recall buying / adding a cory since the tank was last moved).

Tank is full of flourite.

You let me know if he's worse for wear b/c of Flourite.


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## Robert H (Apr 3, 2003)

Clay gravels like Flourite provide oxidized minerals, mostly iron



> Eco-Complete has no nutrients. It has room for the storage of nutrients, though.


That is not true at all. How do you come to that conclusion. It provides several minerals and has a guaranteed analysis right on the bag.

There are two type of nutrients plants use. Macro nutrients and minor nutrients. Minor nutrients are minerals. Macros are nitrogen, phosphate, potassium, calcium, magnesium... Clay or rock substrates only provide minerals, but they are inert and last forever. Roottabs, depending on who makes them usually contain some of both, but degrad, dissolve after a couple months or so.

Soils contain a mixure of organic and inorganic material, and may provide both macro and minor nutrients. Organic matter of any kind decomposes at some point unlike a mineral substrate.



> but roots do not love the texture as much as dirt, and it does not seem to use the fish waste in as good of a way as soil does.


Actually fish waste can help to turn the oxidized minerals found in clay gravels into the more readily used water soluble form. Iron for example. If you remember high school chemistry, the oxidized form of iron is Fe+3 the water soluble. chealted form is Fe+2. Plants use Fe+2 much quicker. The same thing happens using soil. Organic acids as well as fish waste act as a chealator.



> These companies just make a killing on people just getting into live plants(I was one of those people) only for them to learn they need put root tabs in every couple months.


I have used Flourite and Eco complete for over ten years. I am no newbie! If you know what nutrients any substrate, including soils, provides for plants, then you know what else to add. Whats missing. Its not that difficult.


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## SouthernGorilla (Mar 22, 2012)

When I bought Flourite at the nearby chain pet store I was under the impression it was basically mineralized dirt that would release nutrients to the plants over time. Now I find out it's basically smashed up terracotta pots. Sure it may release some nutrients over time. But it is far from being an ideal substrate for plants. All rocks, by definition, contain minerals. But you don't see plants growing in gravel beds. My next tank, and all future tanks, will be dirt. That's what plants need. Even wild aquatic plants grow in dirt at the bottom of whatever pond or stream they are in.


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