# Hairy Diatoms?



## latchdan (Sep 7, 2007)

So I've been trying to wait out these diatoms but they are getting worse and worse as the weeks pass. Its been about 2 or 3 months since tanks been set up.

*Tank*-40B

*Substrate* Safe-T-Sorb with root tabs.

*Lights* 36" 10k XB BML light set at 40% 18 inches from substrate (light set in 
front side of tank) and one 36" dutch XB light set to 45% 18 inches from substrate situated in the back of the tank.

*Photo period *is 6 hours.

*Co2*, cerges style reactor set 1.5 hrs before ligths come on and turn off 1hr before lights turn off.

*Ferts *I do EI with less phosphate and added potassium.

I also let my frogbit cover almost the entire top of the tank to see if light was causing this really didn't notice a difference since then I took out about 1/2 of the frogbit so the other plants would get light.

I do weekly 50%-60% water changes, what should I do?

I've tried to do a black out to see if it would slow the algae/diatoms but instead made it worse. My plants look crappier and the algae exploded.



edit: Also this algae when rubbed between fingers it just dissolves, it doesn't seem like the normal hair algae that is green.


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## Solcielo lawrencia (Dec 30, 2013)

It doesn't look like diatoms. Regardless, I'm thinking the issue is CO2 related and/or too much light. So increase CO2 and/or reduce light.


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## StrangeDejavu (Jun 23, 2014)

Looks exactly like the stuff I had in my 10 gallon a while back. Mine was Brown Hair Algae and when viewed at eye level, looked like tangled hair in a hairbrush. It was slimy to the touch and no amount of blackout, reduce photoperiod and manual removal ever put a dent in it. It caused me to tear down that tank, but that was before I discovered the One-Two Punch method.


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## FatherLandDescendant (Jul 24, 2014)

A few days ago another poster (Seattle Aquarist I think) posted that they thought the Safe-T-Sorb had a higher concentration of silicates and they alluded that they are dealing with them consistently to a lesser degree after initial setup, and that because of that they always stock otos (1 per ten gallons) to combat the issue.

Also studies have shown on oceanic diatoms that phosphate limiting can inhibit the uptake of silicates thus slowing and thereby prolonging the bloom period.


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## latchdan (Sep 7, 2007)

The tank has 4 otos already, they don't seem to eat it at all or it just grows way to fast.

Drop checker is limegreen, used 4dkh solution I can up the co2 a lil and see if I see any gasping.



> A few days ago another poster (Seattle Aquarist I think) posted that they thought the Safe-T-Sorb had a higher concentration of silicates and they alluded that they are dealing with them consistently to a lesser degree after initial setup, and that because of that they always stock otos (1 per ten gallons) to combat the issue.


Does it ever go away, I tossed a bunch of plants that I couldn't clean enough I'm doing a water change tomorrow and I'll clean even more of it. Its a daily thing that doesn't seem to be getting better.



> Also studies have shown on oceanic diatoms that phosphate limiting can inhibit the uptake of silicates thus slowing and thereby prolonging the bloom period.


I've tried to reduce phosphate and all I would get is green spot algae all over my amazonsword/crypts.


> It doesn't look like diatoms. Regardless, I'm thinking the issue is CO2 related and/or too much light. So increase CO2 and/or reduce light.


Photo period is already at 6hrs should I reduce lights to 30%?


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## Solcielo lawrencia (Dec 30, 2013)

It's an XB so it's already putting out way too much light for what you have so I'd reduce intensity even more.


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## FatherLandDescendant (Jul 24, 2014)

latchdan said:


> The tank has 4 otos already, they don't seem to eat it at all or it just grows way to fast.


When I finally got them otos did help in mine, have you had yours a while? Maybe they are tired of the same ole thing for lunch:icon_eek: 



latchdan said:


> Does it ever go away, I tossed a bunch of plants that I couldn't clean enough I'm doing a water change tomorrow and I'll clean even more of it. Its a daily thing that doesn't seem to be getting better.


I've tossed plants because of excessive diatom growth when even rubbing the leaves only left behind a brown layer on the plants, or there was so much it was just better (in my minds eye) to toss a few plants (mostly water sprite) and let them grow back in.

I've noticed a marked decrease of them in my tank in the last month, though there still there to a lesser degree and I've had my 40b set up since May so 5 months:eek5:

It's mostly on the glass and very thin layers on plant leaves, even the water sprite takes them on on older growth.



latchdan said:


> I've tried to reduce phosphate and all I would get is green spot algae all over my amazonsword/crypts.


Another poster here who also lives out CA way says adding phosphates helps eliminate it in their tanks. Reducing phosphates IMHO prolongs a bloom from what I have read. I would suggest you try bumping up the phosphates a bit and see if that helps.

Here's a thread I started to discuss the issue, it also has a lot of links to studies centered on diatom blooms. http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=723809


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## melmel (Aug 23, 2013)

Had this a month ago I actually INCREASED my lighting
And it went away 
It's filamentous diatoms / brown alage


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## latchdan (Sep 7, 2007)

melmel said:


> Had this a month ago I actually INCREASED my lighting
> And it went away
> It's filamentous diatoms / brown alage



Hmm, so either increase the light or decrease the light :S

Just did a large water change and tossed a bunch of plants I couldn't get clean, (asian ambulia, and monte carlo) seemed to have it the worse and are too hard to clean.

I have absolutly no algae on the glass its mainly on the substrate and seems to really like to grow on exposed roots. It also grows in the frogbit roots too although it spread there last.


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## latchdan (Sep 7, 2007)

Okay, so a week later, after I increased co2 and increased phosphate, the algae/diatoms are unaffected.

I'm going to try and change my lighting cycle. I'm having the front light (10k) set at 50% for 3 hour while the back light (dutch) is at 10%. Then the back light will go to 50% for the second 3 hours while the 10k light dims back to 10%. Maybe this will help out I'm not sure.

Possibly the two lights on at once are too much and having them switch during the 6 hour photo period will help...


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## latchdan (Sep 7, 2007)

Well this algae sure isn't going anywhere, I tired reducing lights to 10% and 20%, algae wasn't affected, tried reducing phosophates, then increasing phosphates, still not affected, then tried decreasing potassium, still not affected. I then increased lighting to 55% and 60% and algae wasn't affected but plants seem to be doing better.

I'm pretty much getting to the point of just trashing everything.


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## pwolfe (Mar 2, 2011)

latchdan said:


> Hmm, so either increase the light or decrease the light :S
> 
> Just did a large water change and tossed a bunch of plants I couldn't get clean, (asian ambulia, and monte carlo) seemed to have it the worse and are too hard to clean.
> 
> I have absolutly no algae on the glass its mainly on the substrate and seems to really like to grow on exposed roots. It also grows in the frogbit roots too although it spread there last.



In all my searching for the algae I was battling, nothing I have come across looks as much like it as the pictures you've posted. I'm 100% positive its what I had. 

I dose EI with high light and pressurized co2. I did h2o2, excel, blackouts, all of it for months on end. Ultimately I reduced my LED's by 25% (I have a maxpect razer I was running at 75% at the time.) and in a matter of a few nights it vanished.

IMO adjusting light output will solve your problems with this stuff.


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## latchdan (Sep 7, 2007)

pwolfe said:


> In all my searching for the algae I was battling, nothing I have come across looks as much like it as the pictures you've posted. I'm 100% positive its what I had.
> 
> I dose EI with high light and pressurized co2. I did h2o2, excel, blackouts, all of it for months on end. Ultimately I reduced my LED's by 25% (I have a maxpect razer I was running at 75% at the time.) and in a matter of a few nights it vanished.
> 
> IMO adjusting light output will solve your problems with this stuff.


Well, I've reduced the lighting before like I said, 25% in the front then dimming to 10% and then 25% in the back each 3 hours at a time so each light wasn't at 25% at once. I've notice no difference in algae growth or stunted growth.

Only thing I noticed was my plants turned yellowish/brown because the lack of light.

I'm going to try and move one light to the center of the tank and have around 30% and see if that matters but I'm kinda running out of ideas of what to try. I'm going to add two powerheads when they come in to increase water movement. 

Currently I have 1 SunSun 304-b and a aqua clear 50, but i'm thinking its not enough water movement. I'm adding 2 aquaclear 30 powerheads. I'll have them on each side of tank to add a little more circulation.


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## latchdan (Sep 7, 2007)

This algae is still growing like crazy with the lights reduced to 25% and 30%, I'm going to turn off one completely (the front one) and see if this has any affect at all. Last week I pulled all the plants out and cleaned them and added the powerheads. 
The algae came back in full force 

I also collected a couple samples of algae in a cup and going to see if excel or hydrogen peroxide has any affect on it.


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## angelcraze (Aug 20, 2013)

melmel said:


> Had this a month ago I actually INCREASED my lighting
> And it went away
> It's filamentous diatoms / brown alage


Hi latchdan, looks like you are at your rope's end. I've just read this post now. In my 120g, I have this sort of 'hairy diatoms'. It is perfectly described as filamentous algae. The key point, I think is that it rubs off with your fingers. I also have a 90g with BBA, and although the two algaes *look* similar, it's the fact that the algae in the 90g just does not pick off, the plant's leaf will just rip before that BBA let's go, that makes the difference. The algae in my 120g just wipes off easily with a sponge.

Both of my tanks would be considered lower lighting and no added pressurized co2. The 120g's lighting is lower than the 90g's. Both have a mix of LED and HOt5 or t8 lighting. 

I always thought that this algae in the 120g was BBA right before it became actual BBA, or really weak BBA. Like diatoms and BBA had some kind of connection. Lighting definitely has an effect on it, since it is only present where the light would shine: it would not be present in a shaded area.

If you are referring to the same algae as in my tanks, I think increasing the lighting would help, probably your photoperiod by one hour, and increase the flow. I wasn't' sure if you tried this, but I have my LED in the 120g come on as a 'noon burst', which makes things even more complicated with endless lighting photoperiod combinations. I still think the unbalance is not totally related to lighting, and that the underlying issue would have to be addressed because:
1) I've found that with more flow the BBA just gets spread around and seems to be more heavily present in the output flow of the filter.
2) I've found when you increase your lighting only, these algaes literally turn into green algaes instead of brown.

This is only what I have found, I have nothing to back this up at all, it's just what happened with my tanks trying to combat brown algae, I am not saying this will be your case at all. Just wanted to see if any of this info helps


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## latchdan (Sep 7, 2007)

angelcraze said:


> Hi latchdan, looks like you are at your rope's end. I've just read this post now. In my 120g, I have this sort of 'hairy diatoms'. It is perfectly described as filamentous algae. The key point, I think is that it rubs off with your fingers. I also have a 90g with BBA, and although the two algaes *look* similar, it's the fact that the algae in the 90g just does not pick off, the plant's leaf will just rip before that BBA let's go, that makes the difference. The algae in my 120g just wipes off easily with a sponge.
> 
> Both of my tanks would be considered lower lighting and no added pressurized co2. The 120g's lighting is lower than the 90g's. Both have a mix of LED and HOt5 or t8 lighting.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the post, yeah I though it was filamentous algae but it just hasn't gone away for months which I thought it would as the tank ages. I have tried increasing the lighting from 30% up to 65% and I really saw no change at all. The algae comes off fairly easy and attaches to the substrate as well. Each week I'm trying something different such as increasing light or decreasing.

I removed almost all the algae I could and within 5 days it looked like the pictures again, whether the light is turned up or not. I think I see slightly more growth when the lights are turned up. 

Flow doesn't seem to matter either because it grows on my aquaclear outflow and as well as my spraybar. There is also no other type of algae present in the tank, no Black Beard, no GSA or GDA. Really nothing but he brown hairy stuff.

As far as co2, I have my drop checker at yellow/green I did the KH/PH test to just fun and my KH is 4 and my ph was 6.4 as the lights came on. So assuming its semi accurate I should have about 46ppm of co2, which should be enough. I have no wood in the tank just some rocks.

The lights are on a 6 hour photo period, right now should I increase it to 7hr? 8hr? This week I'm trying just 1 light bar at 30% its the dutch XB one I have.

I suppose the next step will be to remove the rocks and see if they are adding something weird to the water.


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## angelcraze (Aug 20, 2013)

So you don't think it's the same algae as I have then? From your pics, I would say your algae's filaments look longer. They actually look slimier, but I think that's just how my eyes see it b/c it dissolves when touched. 

The photoperiod thing, was just going with the idea that the algae (or whatever it is) is highly influenced by lighting amount. I just know that with other algaes, I've been able to control different types with different lighting intensities and photoperiods. Sometimes, I find with low lighting, that 6hrs just isn't enough, and that a burst is needed or longer photoperiod. When you mentioned your plants were yellowing, I thought that was the case. Just a thought.


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## biotex3 (Oct 1, 2014)

I have the same issue as you OP. The source of the problem for me was a rock. I would see the filaments all come out of the rock and spread to my other plants. I changed out my water with RO water and removed the rock, and now the diatoms are dying off. I'm going to toss the rock in with some shrimp and nerites and wait for it to cure.


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## latchdan (Sep 7, 2007)

Well today when I woke up I got a little bit of a surprise. The samples I took of the algae with excel and H202 have turned green from brown. I also noticed when the algae is left out to dry it turns green. I'm not sure if this means the algae is dead or what ever made it brown is dead. 


(H202)


(excel)

I added a couple drops to each cup (about 1/2 cup of water) I'm not sure if this was too much, or if I can even get the concentrations in the tank but I'm going to try and start dosing excel and see if there is any difference.


(nothing added)


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## bcarrot (May 12, 2014)

I am battling this EXACT algea right now. Just did the ONE-TWO Punch method last week and have seen a marked improvement. I would highly recommend trying it. A few days after the treatment I did another 50% water change and used a soft toothbrush to clean off the leaves, suctioning up the gunk with my syphon as it came off. If you don't, the algea is just going to float around the tank and get stuck somewhere else and start growing. A few times of doing this and I think my tank will be algea free. (fingers crossed)


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## latchdan (Sep 7, 2007)

bcarrot said:


> I am battling this EXACT algea right now. Just did the ONE-TWO Punch method last week and have seen a marked improvement. I would highly recommend trying it. A few days after the treatment I did another 50% water change and used a soft toothbrush to clean off the leaves, suctioning up the gunk with my syphon as it came off. If you don't, the algea is just going to float around the tank and get stuck somewhere else and start growing. A few times of doing this and I think my tank will be algea free. (fingers crossed)


I'm gonna leave the one 2 punch as a last resort, I currently have riccia, as well as cardinal tetras in the tank and I heard both are sensitive to H2O2.
I have some excel I'm gonna try first to see if that will help.


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## fablau (Feb 7, 2009)

Are you sure to have enough nitrates in your water? What are your No3 and Po4 measurements? Also, how's your plant mass? Can you give us a pic of your complete tank?


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## latchdan (Sep 7, 2007)

I've been dosing according to EI, or even slightly less. I would say the plant mass is on the lighter side now since I had to dump a lot of plants or they just died because of the algae. Although, the top of the tank was almost completely covered at one time with frogbit and riccia and that didn't seem to help the algae either. I'll see if I can get a picture soon.


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## Octantis (Jan 9, 2014)

Here's an odd question. Do you have rocks in your tank and if so where did you source them from? Or do you know what kind of rock they are?


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## latchdan (Sep 7, 2007)

I do have rocks, I don't no what type. I got them on a hike near the coast. I've had them in distilled water and it didn't affect the KH/GH or PH so I put them in. Like I said earlier I might have to remove them to see if that has an affect.


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## fablau (Feb 7, 2009)

latchdan said:


> I've been dosing according to EI, or even slightly less. I would say the plant mass is on the lighter side now since I had to dump a lot of plants or they just died because of the algae. Although, the top of the tank was almost completely covered at one time with frogbit and riccia and that didn't seem to help the algae either. I'll see if I can get a picture soon.



Despite you dose EI, you should at least have an idea of how much macros you have in your water. Here is an example: My tap water has zero No3 and zero Po4, but my pond outside has always pretty high Po4 because of probably some rocks or lily pots substrate leaching Po4 in the water... Therefore, in my pond, I have to dose No3 and not Po4 to avoid algae infestation. Measurement of water values is the first needed step when an algae problem arise.


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## latchdan (Sep 7, 2007)

Nitrate is 20ppms after water change is usually around <5ppm, Phosphate is generally around 1-2ppm, I've increased phosphate due to seeing some GSA. I don't think my macros are the issue.

I use a mixture of RO water and tap water to get my KH and GH to 3ppms. Out of the tap they are around 21ppm each.


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## fablau (Feb 7, 2009)

Unless you have measured nitrates with a accurate reference solution, I would increase nitrates anyway. Try to double them for a few weeks and see what's gonna happen. If you dry dose, that will be easy and not expensive. I am saying that because nitrate tests often are deceptive and hard to read with the color chart. You have nothing to lose, and even if you get 40-50ppm of No3 at the end of the week, nothing bad will happen.

Also, in my experience, most algae are caused by a lack of nitrates compared to other nutrients (co2 excluded of course). Only when you are super-sure to be 200% covered by macros and micros, you can look into co2.


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## latchdan (Sep 7, 2007)

I have a nitrate reference solution made up, although I haven't used it in a while.

Little update so far, I've seen a large decrease in amount of algae in tank since last water change. I'm not sure if its due to the addition of excel, I've been slightly overdosing it. It could also be because I only have 1 light on at 30% that I've tried to center in the tank. 

I'm also getting a lot of dead leafs, not sure if that is due to the lack of light or excel. Mainly it is my the willow hygro


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## angelcraze (Aug 20, 2013)

That's good, at least you are seeing a decrease. Now to keep it away, and find out what is helping it grow exactly. Btw, don't know if it is for the same reason, but my hygro angustifolia will drop it's lower leaves when the stem reaches the surface of the water. The surface will be shaded over at this point. I suspected in my case, the leaves weren't getting enough of the light. The top of the plant would always grow nice and full however. I also really think that tank my angustifolia is in, is low in potassium, which may have an effect too?


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## latchdan (Sep 7, 2007)

Tanks looking pretty sad I must admit, but a lot of the plants I had for a long time died away, such as asian ambulia, monte carlo, and a couple others.

My amazon sword looks like it may not make it either. Only plants that have survived well is the willow leaf hyrgo and some crypts in the front, in addition to the riccia and the frogbit.

Last week I did a pretty big prune job, tossing 90% of the frogbit infected and trimmed up the willow hygro.

(this pic is with both lights on at 10%, but am running only 1 at 30% right now for 6 hours.)


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## angelcraze (Aug 20, 2013)

You know what i never liked in my tanks? Is floating riccia. It will totally cloud your plants underneath. I know fast growing floaters will sometimes help with algaes, but I keep my floating plants secured where I don't need the light, like in a corner, or in the very front of the tank. Ex. I keep my riccia contained in breeder nets with fry, or tie my brazilian pennywort to the front of the tank and let it grow along the front, so the light can shine through still. Not really my idea of scaping, but I am combating algae as well. Here's a pic of what I mean. 










The brazilian pennywort is tied to the front with thread and my lighting is positioned more toward the middle, so the floating plants do not interfere with the beam. In the breeder box is riccia all contained. The floaters don't really shade my other plants that way and things stay more constant.

It sucks you are not happy with your tank, but at least some of your plants made it. Your hygro looks really nice. I really think you didn't have enough light going at one point if your sword didn't make it. Things will come around with time.


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## latchdan (Sep 7, 2007)

Still fighting this stuff, kinda fed up and did the The One Two Punch today, lets see if this works....

Since last post I also added a lot of water wisteria and some other stems...


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## Ben125 (Dec 16, 2014)

Ive got the same algae in my tank. No idea whats causing it for sure. It was always in there but seemed to explode when I added pressurized CO2. 

Reduced lighting has slowed it but only slightly. It grows equally well in high flow/ low flow areas. It grows equally well in high light/ low light areas. I tested silicates and they are at a 1-2 (basically nothing). Vacuuming it out during water changes seems to have helped it spread.

Since its all over the tank now, I have been just vacuuming it out weekly. Luckily it comes right off with the gravel vac. I wish I could figure out whats causing it. I did have some random rocks so i guess Ill try removing those.


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## latchdan (Sep 7, 2007)

Yeah, I've tried a variety of things, tank is looking good after the treatment. No fish losses that I've noticed. I did 2 tablespoons/ per 10 gallon of water. I have cardinal tetras, harlequin rasboras and otos in tank.

I removed my riccia before the treatment as well. Been battling this algae for almost a year it seems...


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## latchdan (Sep 7, 2007)

Four days no brown hairy stuff yet... dont wanna jinx it though... *knock on wood*


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