# Are Cichlids out of the question for planted tank, community peaceful tank?



## redranger (Dec 13, 2015)

Are Cichlids completely out of the question for a community tank with plants? 

I am talking about perhaps the smaller looking ones. Are they all pretty much out of the question or are there any exceptions ? 

Thanks.


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## Jcstank (Jan 3, 2015)

In my opinion they are pretty much out of the question for peaceful planted tanks. Some exceptions are Rams but even they are aggressive with each other, sometimes killing the less aggressive Ram, male or female. I had an angel fish, that when it got lager, started eating my plants. I'm no expert though on Cichlids so I'm sure someone else will chime in here with some advice. You may have some luck with Discus also.


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## bsherwood (Nov 22, 2007)

I added a few small ones to a 55 planted. they were small and cute and colorful. They got big and aggressive and nasty. Pretty soon I had a cichlid tank. All other fish gone. All plants trashed.


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

When we speak of cichlids we need to narrow it down a whole bunch. Like dogs or people, there are certain types which are totally wrong but then there are also those who can be totally right. Success is far more involved when searching out the correct combo as the cichlids do have a far more advanced idea of who owns the tank. Those who fight are not good, nor are several other traits to avoid but not all cichlids do the same thing. Due to a lack of understanding and effort, it is easier to just lump them together. 

Not all cichlids get big and tear up plants. Labidochromis chisumlae is a small cousin of the common yellow lab that I found worked well with a group of young African cichlids in a 20


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## MChambers (May 26, 2009)

There are definitely exceptions. For example, Bolivian rams are fine in a community tank. Some of the smaller west Africans also work, like Anomalochromis thomasi or the smaller Pelvicachromis species.


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

A place to start on the search might be to cut out lots of those who are less likely to work. What type water and matching the fish to the water can make it lots easier. Even though the fish do adapt to far different water, it is easier on you and them if you start from easy before working into those who do take more work. 
How's the water? Hard alkaline is nice for many but there are those who don't need it. What size tank? Larger gives more room in the choices but there are those who can work in pretty small. Don't rule any types out just on the stereotypes you will read and hear about so much. What didn't work for them may work for you, if you give it some time and practice. You don't learn to ride a bike overnight and from reading so why expect people to do that with keeping fish? 
Small peaceful Central American cichlids are out there and some of them do well in softer acidic water just like the angelfish but you don't need to go for something as big as angelfish. 
Herotilapia multispinosa is one. Starting with selected fish and young ones will give you a better shot at letting them grow up together where potential trouble is more apt to work itself out. Don't crowd them and they may work out those little arguments all by themselves.
This is a tank of the rainbow cichlids, an Ellioti cichlid and some young severum. The severum became a problem and were changed out but that is fine in my tanks to get to the end I want. 
My theory on fish and plants is the same as friends I might meet. Some work out and are kept while other are not but either way it never stops me looking for new ones to try out.


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## sohankpatel (Jul 10, 2015)

They are not out of the question, I have seen people with very nice planted tanks with angelfish in them. I have 4 bolivian rams and they don't do anything to the other fish. I HAD a kribensis, they are hit and miss, he was bent on killing my dwarf gourami, besides that he was peaceful. Apisogramma are peaceful fish.


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## shrimpNewbie (May 6, 2011)

Too much misinformation out there about cichlids, keep in mind angels are cichlids and do very well in a planted community as do apistos, certain severum, blue and electric blue acaras, yellow acara, flag cichlids, most of the geophagus group and almost all of the gymnogeophagus group. I have kept many cichlids successfully in planted communities, my latest group will be a breeding pair of geophagus 'Rio tapajos red head' with a group of tetras and breeding pair of bristle nose plecos

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

My angels only ever seem to nibble on elodea, I just make sure they always have enough, but it grows faster than they eat.

I'd rather not talk about when I was young and got some jack dempseys, I still think they are great to look at.


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

So much depends on WHICH cichlid and which fish in that type but then much also depends on what we do as fishkeepers. Fish do not often suddenly kill a fish. It can happen but more often it is a gradual process where the victim becomes more and more a victim. That is when we have failed rather than the fish. If WE don't do our job the victim may die but if we pay attention and remove the victim or the agrressive fish all we have lost is some time and effort. Anybody in the game who doesn't expect to lose some time and effort plus some money just really needs to look at other hobbies. 
Your choices don't have to be exactly right every time but you do need to be open to changing things when you find you are wrong.


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

I like using trios of platies for breeding, often one female will be aggressive to the other, or just generally dominant, I simply put the nasty fish in a breeding net for a day or two in full view, to let the other two form a stronger bond, after re releasing the bad girl, all is usually peaceful.


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## ~magpie~ (Nov 15, 2011)

What size tank, how hard/soft is your water, and what other inhabitants do you have? 

I've had luck with Apistos and Bolivian Rams in a densely planted tank. I love the Bolivians, even though they are less flashy, they have more personality and interact with you, kind of like Bettas do. 

Laetacara Araguaiae were so cool, but when they started spawning I had to rehome them because they were great parents and were causing too much commotion in the community. Would be an awesome fish to have in a breeding steup though! They were so beautiful.


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

What we start out calling a "community" has to also figure into the question. Like any community, the people/fish or whatever has to be compatible for that group.


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## Hooked on fish (Dec 15, 2015)

I have kept Angels with very little problems in planted tanks.
I have had some success with Juvenile Firemouths. It's about 50/50 when they reach adults.

My GBR never gave my plants any issues.

Currently I have a Blue Acara and a Blood Parrot/Convict hybrid that are well behaved also.

I think that most problems occur with breeding pairs.
Single cichlids are less likely to uproot plants.
There are of course some exceptions.


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## Betta132 (Nov 29, 2012)

I've had checkerboard cichlids in the past, and I love them. Peaceful, good solo or in groups, and safe with just about everything. They're South American, so they do prefer softer water, but captive bred ones (fairly easy to get) are pretty tolerant. There are two kinds, lyretail and spadetail, and there isn't much of a difference between them. Personally, I love these little guy. They can be a bit timid, so they're best kept in tanks with plenty of cover, but they come out a bit more once they realize that there's nothing big and scary. 
Dicrossus filamentosus (Lyretail Checkerboard Cichlid) ? Seriously Fish
Dicrossus maculatus (Spadetailed Checkerboard Cichlid) ? Seriously Fish


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## blackjack (Jun 5, 2008)

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I got a 75 low tech planted for over a year. Had 3 angelfish, 2 discus, 1 albino bristlenose pleco, 3 swordtails, for over a year. Recently added 1 aulonocara stuartgranti, 1 blue ahli last month. No problems so far. Biggest concern is space, temperament of fish, and tank layout. No open space means the African cichlids can't dig.


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## Betta132 (Nov 29, 2012)

That's pretty cool, and a beautiful aquarium. 
Any aggression issues with the two discus?


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

Congrats on making a tank work even though it would seem to break lots of rules. I've not been bold enough to put discus/ angelfish types with my African cichlids due to water questions and the thought that the long fins might be too much. Seems to work for you, though. Nice color. Good space for them to live in peace as they are not crowded like we often read about for cichlids. 
One note that I might differ on your thinking is why they are not digging. I feel it is more because you have only male African cichlids rather than not having room. I find with my fish, they will dig when they feel the urge whether something is in the way or not. When the females begin to put out the hormones, etc. all my males that use pits for spawning do go at it. I feel you have avoided that with a good choice of fish.

This is what happened when I was wrong.
:crying:


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## blackjack (Jun 5, 2008)

I originally had 5 discus. 2 died within a month of the tank being set up (possibly due to aggression?). and one died during QT. The two discus don't bother each other because one is twice the size of the other. Had 6 angelfish but lost 3 when a pair started to form. So far, everything seems to be in balance, with no fish harassing any other. The Africa Cichlids seem to be leaving the other cichlid alone as well. I have been told that you can't have a planted tank with cichlids or that you can't keep African cichlids with another other more peaceful cichlids like angelfish and Rams. I think it's more of a trial and error and knowing what to add or remove.

What I do notice is that the African cichlid will pick on other fish of the same color. Because there is only one blue ahli and one yellow aulonocara, there's no need for either to be agressive towards other fish in the tank because they're all different colors. Plus like you mention, there's no females to entice breeding behaviors.

One issue would be water parameters. My local water is naturally hard. The discus I brought were raised locally in MN hard water, as well as the angelfish.


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## shrimpNewbie (May 6, 2011)

blackjack said:


> I originally had 5 discus. 2 died within a month of the tank being set up (possibly due to aggression?). and one died during QT. The two discus don't bother each other because one is twice the size of the other. Had 6 angelfish but lost 3 when a pair started to form. So far, everything seems to be in balance, with no fish harassing any other. The Africa Cichlids seem to be leaving the other cichlid alone as well. I have been told that you can't have a planted tank with cichlids or that you can't keep African cichlids with another other more peaceful cichlids like angelfish and Rams. I think it's more of a trial and error and knowing what to add or remove.
> 
> What I do notice is that the African cichlid will pick on other fish of the same color. Because there is only one blue ahli and one yellow aulonocara, there's no need for either to be agressive towards other fish in the tank because they're all different colors. Plus like you mention, there's no females to entice breeding behaviors.
> 
> One issue would be water parameters. My local water is naturally hard. The discus I brought were raised locally in MN hard water, as well as the angelfish.


It isn't that you can't keep African cichlids with other docile cochlids, it's that it is irresponsible and or cruel to do so, also African cichlids and south American cichlids require vastly different water conditions to thrive, I would bet your discus died due to your water, not inter species aggression.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk


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## Jcstank (Jan 3, 2015)

blackjack said:


> I got a 75 low tech planted for over a year. Had 3 angelfish, 2 discus, 1 albino bristlenose pleco, 3 swordtails, for over a year. Recently added 1 aulonocara stuartgranti, 1 blue ahli last month. No problems so far. Biggest concern is space, temperament of fish, and tank layout. No open space means the African cichlids can't dig.



That is a great looking tank and you have a lot of grassy type plants, which I'm guessing is less appealing to those cichlids. When I had my angel and he was small like that, he didn't touch my plants. When he got bigger though I had issues because he discovered the soft new Anubia leaves were a tasky treat. From that point on out every time an Anubia tried to grow a new leaf it was eaten before it could unfold. I hope this doesn't happen to you but just want to share my experience.


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## Hobbes1911 (Mar 2, 2009)

I have Laetacara curviceps and Dicrossus filamentosus in my planted tank and they are just fine. It definitely depends on the fish species. South american dwarf cichlids generally should be no problem but it's important to know which fish you're interested in!


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## QuoVadis (Feb 5, 2012)

Many cichlids can do well in planted community tanks - if you are not care if they dig a little or tear a couple things up. Many won't ruin the tank, but they may modify it a bit!

Cichlids that typically won't tear up plants or eat/bully small community fish: (All cichlids will give each other a little bit of aggression, but in properly sized tank it rarely is lethal)

Bolivian rams (also GBR, but Bolivan have more personality)
Keyhole cichlids (very underrated IMO)
Apistogramma
Flag cichlids
Rainbow cichlids
Cryptoheros nanoluteus
Kribs (maybe)
Angelfish
Discus


Some bigger cichlids that can still do well in community tanks but are bigger (so no tiny tetras with them) and may dig more, so no fastidious aquascapers will want them.
Acaras
Many Cryptoheros sp
Severum
Geophagus sp
Buffaloheads
Jack Dempsey
Satanaperca

Many more!


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## terror lover 11 (Dec 11, 2015)

Absolutely not! You just have to pick the right one. I had a ram with gouramis, tetras and guppies! Hope this helps!


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## HybridHerp (May 24, 2012)

shrimpNewbie said:


> Too much misinformation out there about cichlids, keep in mind angels are cichlids and do very well in a planted community as do apistos, certain severum, blue and electric blue acaras, yellow acara, flag cichlids, most of the geophagus group and almost all of the gymnogeophagus group. I have kept many cichlids successfully in planted communities, my latest group will be a breeding pair of geophagus 'Rio tapajos red head' with a group of tetras and breeding pair of bristle nose plecos
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk


Aren't severums plant eaters though? I'm wondering how the red head tapajos does as well, I want one but idk if its a good idea in a dirted tank (like if it will dig or any of that). I personally have kept Electric Blue Acara, Electric Blue Jack Dempsey, Geo Hecklii, Rainbow Cichlids, stuff from the fire mouth genus, angelfish, and others in a planted tank. Been debating things like jewel cichlids and some other guys but idk if they'd dig too much or any of that, or a nice parrot...actually I'd love a platinum JD (the one that is both gold and electric blue) but finding a good sized one is hard. I think I need a bigger tank sometimes lol


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

It does take some real study and luck to get the right combo. A bigger tank is certainly easier to find the right group as you can give them the space they need to spread out and do their own thing. I find fish are very much like people in some important ways. As people we tend to do things that get on each others nerves so think what you like. If you have a neighbor with a dog that barks, isn't it much easier to tolerate if he is four blocks down the road than if he is next door? I find fish do the same, when we cram them in too close. They get on each others nerves more and it winds up a fight. 
So giving them room is one way to help deal with the lousy neighbor problems. It also helps that you CAN cull out the bad neighbors in your tank. Jack Dempsey never really sounded like a good prospect for a good neighbor, so I don't try them. 

For who eats plants, I have run through some plants and never got them to work out but then I don't find it only the fish type but the plant type also matters a lot. Some plants like anacharis just seem much more likely to be salad bar than others like swords. Faster growing stem plants do grow fast and may beat the eating but they also strip much faster and may not survive.


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## notropis (Sep 16, 2005)

You could definitely go with pelvicachromus in a large enough tank (>20 gal)


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## The Dude (Feb 8, 2011)

The water is a little cloudy in my 125 Tanganyikan tank
And my 75 gallon tanganyikan tank


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## Omar EAZi (Aug 5, 2015)

I had couple of bolivian rams, the male used to harras the other females sometimes but never harrased the other species of fishes in the tank, and I never saw them harming any plant, I also had a pair of electric blue ram which I loved the color of, but they used to dig in the sand and screw up my plants, and I had a dutch style planted tank so I used to always remove plants and rearrange their position etc so no strong roots holding them down tightly which didn't work very well with my electric blue rams so I had to move them to their own tank that only had few stems in the back and carpet plant.. after few weeks only the stems were there carpet was totally gone lol.


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

This is an old one! But the answers are still very much the same after a few years. I find there are lots of things that change the answers but most of them can be worked around if the owner of the tank is willing to keep an open mind and really try to sort out what is needed. Just as it takes more thought and effort to keep a planted tank over a bare tank, it takes more to run a tank with a cichlid community than a group of fish with a lower level of evolution. Many cichlids do have ideas of what the tank should involve and if you do not honor those wishes, you may be in for a real struggle. It's kind of like living with a new born baby versus a two year old? One, you can do pretty much anything, while the other does begin to "express" their wishes. 
It takes practice to get it right. This is my old Protomelas insignus breeding tank from a couple years back.


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

I like my cichlids very much and always want to encourage others to try it and see how they might like them as well, but part of liking cichlids is being able to make it work with the least headaches. Since I feel I have been pretty successful at what I wanted out of the planted cichlid tank ,I might share some of the reasons and background of the tank above. 

My first step is to lay out some priorities for the tank as that drives what I do from then on into the game. 
In this tank, I was primarily breeding the larger, more peaceful Protomelas group as I had done all the mbuna that thrilled me and I do get bored if there is not some challenge. So I had the 9" male and his "girls". They are an open water fish who only goes to the bottom occasionally and when breeding. They pretty much stay up top with big colorful males but drab grey females. 
So I wanted something for the bottom who were mild enough to not bother the insignus and I wanted color and movement. I had the yellow labs left over from breeding them and they are easy to get and keep at a low price so they fit what I wanted. So I had the fish chosen but then the question of how to set the tank to make each happy without them driving me silly? 
Protomelas are big fish and need some space to do their mating dance but they do not do much digging but more clear a space where the eggs can be spotted and picked up by the female. A largish space at the left with a "wall" or screen to allow the big fellow to run the labs out while he did his dance and he's happy! Then how to deal with the mbuna labs who everybody says dig too much! I find all the males of any species react when ANY of the females in the tank are ready to spawn so one way to reduce the labs going nuts is to try to sort out the males and keep the number way down. They are somewhat hard to sex at a young age but if I kept young fish and very few males, digging went way down. Good point on yellow labs is that the female is also bright colored. But since they do dig when they do want to spawn, I occasionally had some digging but I planned for this by leaving a smaller, more congested site with more cover in the right back corner where it is pretty much out of sight (just in case it looks like somebody dug it up?) And this was the place they favored most of the time. 
The plants I tried all worked pretty much the same without fish tearing them up but I tend to like the bigger hardy plants who do root deep and solid. I never found the fish eating the plants but they do want to pick algae off the leaves and if the plant is easy to pull up, it happens! 
So I found a mix of types and sizes from newly hatched yellow lab fry, fighting to find their space , juvies of both species and adults but limited males in the lab group seemed to give me what I was wanting at the time. Working out how to catch the females when they had been holding eggs in the mouth for long enough was one of the bigger challenges of this tank!


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## bicboihulk (Feb 6, 2019)

PlantedRich said:


> Congrats on making a tank work even though it would seem to break lots of rules. I've not been bold enough to put discus/ angelfish types with my African cichlids due to water questions and the thought that the long fins might be too much. Seems to work for you, though. Nice color. Good space for them to live in peace as they are not crowded like we often read about for cichlids.
> One note that I might differ on your thinking is why they are not digging. I feel it is more because you have only male African cichlids rather than not having room. I find with my fish, they will dig when they feel the urge whether something is in the way or not. When the females begin to put out the hormones, etc. all my males that use pits for spawning do go at it. I feel you have avoided that with a good choice of fish.
> 
> This is what happened when I was wrong.
> :crying:


from my personal experience ph doesn't matter. fish will adapt. pretty sure the water that comes out of your sink isn't the same as the one in the wild right. the real problem imo lies in the fish. he's lucky his cichlids don't destroy his tanks or attack other fish. i'm not so lucky lol. i used to have a blood parrot in my tank. kept laying eggs and attacking everything even fish triple his size. plus she liked to dig. i had to put her in a different tank. i've seen some weird but beautiful combos before. just not everyone can pull it off.


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

bicboihulk said:


> from my personal experience ph doesn't matter. fish will adapt. pretty sure the water that comes out of your sink isn't the same as the one in the wild right. the real problem imo lies in the fish. he's lucky his cichlids don't destroy his tanks or attack other fish. i'm not so lucky lol. i used to have a blood parrot in my tank. kept laying eggs and attacking everything even fish triple his size. plus she liked to dig. i had to put her in a different tank. i've seen some weird but beautiful combos before. just not everyone can pull it off.


But that is the point of my post! We should not fall back to assuming things are a matter of "luck". Those who we might assume to be "lucky" have often done far more thinking and made choices which do improve "luck". Choosing a big burly fish like a blood parrot may be bad luck on the first choice but that is when others will turn that "bad luck" into a learning experience rather than just give up. 
Luck, whether bad or good, is often more a matter of attitude. Getting lucky does take time. :thumbsup:


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## Cichlid-140 (Sep 28, 2018)

For fish-on-fish aggression some things have worked for me.


Establish smaller fish earlier than larger ones. (by mature size) This gives the smaller guys time to establish territory.
Introduce bigger/more aggressive fish as juveniles into otherwise established communities. They may retain the pecking order as they mature.
Introduce more aggressive fish of a common species together.
These aren't sure fire methods for success but they tend to help nudge the luck thing a bit.

Right now I have, in order of introduction:

9 - Giant Danios
2 - Dwarf Gouramis; 2 Honey Gouramis
2 - Half Dollar (body) sized Angels; 2 - Quarter sized Angels; 1 - Dime sized angel (was 2 but we lost one)

Everyone is getting along fine right now. Time will tell.

Once the small Angel gets to about quarter size I plan for 2 - juve Electric Blue Acaras to be followed, after they've been given a chance to grow some, by 2 - juve Red Spot Gold Severums.

(141 gal display tank)

I'm hoping the order, and pace of the introductions, as well as the ages at introduction will help out on the "luck" front.

It's something of a gamble but steps can be taken to improve the odds.


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