# How often? How many? RootTabs



## Daximus

Probably get lots of opinions on this, simply because there are so many variables. The size of the plant or density of surrounding plants, the substrate you are pushing them into, the brand of root tab...etc. 

Generally speaking I think 30-45 days is pretty common. Again, varying from tank to tank. Don't bother putting them near the stems...they aren't using them. Under the root plants you sort of have to use your best judgment. I jamb one deep underneath my large root plants, or 1/2 to 1/4 under smaller ones, again using your best judgement on size. For small "herds" of root plants I sort of center them in the patches...again using 1/2 or 1/4 for small "herds". 

I know that's a rather subjective answer. If I had your tank, I would probably use three 1/2 tabs under the row of whatever that is on the front left. then maybe 3-4 tabs spaced out evenly around the little jungle you have going on the back right. Then just placed around as needed. 

If you use to many you might bork your water a little, but it's tough to do on a 75 unless you just go insane. Light and Co2 will be your primary growth factors, but the fertilization could limit growth. Lack thereof will make them look bad. 

This help any? I am by know means an expert...this is just sort of what I do.


----------



## RAZmonkey

That actually helps a lot. The row in front left is Crypt Parva. It's one of my favorites in my tank. The jumbled mess in the back right definitely needs some attention, but it'll have to wait a few more months. I didn't know what I received in my last plant order and things look different in my tank than they did when I received them.  Most of the plants shortened up once being in my tank...meaning they were nice and tall when I got them and so I planted them towards the back and then all new growth was short and close to the ground...small leaves and short stems compared to the way they came to me.

I think I've been under doing it on the root tabs based on what you've described. 

I have low light (two T8 bulbs on for 8h a day). Substrate is a mix of Tahitian Moon Sand and EcoComplete. Root tabs I have are RootMedic brand, but I just used the last ones. All water going in the tank is RO.


----------



## bradlgt21

Daximus said:


> Don't bother putting them near the stems...they aren't using them.


While this is mostly true stems get the nutrients from the water column. I had lud. Repens in a fluval edge right under the light. I put root tabs in and it grew great about 6 months later it completely died off for no reason. In a last ditch effor I replanted some of the half alive parts of the plant and threw in some root tabs. It recovered immediately and exploded. I don't dose the water column in this tank. So I am not saying they are root feeders I am just saying if only doing root tabs I don't think putting them under the stems is a waste of time.


----------



## Daximus

bradlgt21 said:


> While this is mostly true stems get the nutrients from the water column. I had lud. Repens in a fluval edge right under the light. I put root tabs in and it grew great about 6 months later it completely died off for no reason. In a last ditch effor I replanted some of the half alive parts of the plant and threw in some root tabs. It recovered immediately and exploded. I don't dose the water column in this tank. So I am not saying they are root feeders I am just saying if only doing root tabs I don't think putting them under the stems is a waste of time.


Absolutely. I should have clarified. :thumbsup: Root tabs will leach, to an extent depending on the substrate, into the water column. At that point they are indeed beneficial to any mosses, stems, floaters etc., just like dosing the water column. The faster they leach, the faster they are gone as well. 

Good catch, I assumed the water column was being dosed separately. At OP, my tanks are all low light. I get away with all my dosing using root tabs for the substrate and Seachem Flourish for the water. If you have high light, you will ultimately have to do more, but those products seem to be working very well for me in low light.




RAZmonkey said:


> That actually helps a lot. The row in front left is Crypt Parva. It's one of my favorites in my tank. The jumbled mess in the back right definitely needs some attention, but it'll have to wait a few more months. I didn't know what I received in my last plant order and things look different in my tank than they did when I received them.  Most of the plants shortened up once being in my tank...meaning they were nice and tall when I got them and so I planted them towards the back and then all new growth was short and close to the ground...small leaves and short stems compared to the way they came to me.
> 
> I think I've been under doing it on the root tabs based on what you've described.
> 
> I have low light (two T8 bulbs on for 8h a day). Substrate is a mix of Tahitian Moon Sand and EcoComplete. Root tabs I have are RootMedic brand, but I just used the last ones. All water going in the tank is RO.


Check out the tank in my sig, we have very similar setups. I'll tell you everything I know...which admittedly isn't a great deal, lol.


----------



## RAZmonkey

I'll check out the tank when I get to a desk top.


----------



## Daximus

RAZmonkey said:


> I'll check out the tank when I get to a desk top.


Ok, also with one shoplight and no Co2 don't expect phenomenal growth regardless of how good you get with the root tabs. Light and Co2 are the real drivers. My tank went realllly slow until I added Co2. :thumbsup:

Just because you add Co2, depending on how you do it, doesn't make your tank much more high maintenance.


----------



## Aquaticfan

Daximus said:


> Absolutely. I should have clarified. :thumbsup: Root tabs will leach, to an extent depending on the substrate, into the water column. At that point they are indeed beneficial to any mosses, stems, floaters etc., just like dosing the water column. The faster they leach, the faster they are gone as well.
> 
> Good catch, I assumed the water column was being dosed separately. At OP, my tanks are all low light. I get away with all my dosing using root tabs for the substrate and Seachem Flourish for the water. If you have high light, you will ultimately have to do more, but those products seem to be working very well for me in low light.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Check out the tank in my sig, we have very similar setups. I'll tell you everything I know...which admittedly isn't a great deal, lol.


Not even so much about what root tabs will leach into the water. But remember many plants are opportunistic and adapt easy. Stem plants are the ones I see do this the most. Like the Hygro we have talked about in the past. Hygro is a Stem, BUT its a root feeder. When it doesnt get what it wants from the substrtate it will go after the column. Ive got some VERY nice Limnophila aromatica and some very nice very red alternanthera reineckii, both stem plants. But BOTH with the largest roots ive ever seen in a substrate come out of the stem.. Seriously like 4 to 5 inches long BIG thick long roots. I use the Osmocote Plus root tabs with most everything stem and root feeders alike. Plus im also dosing EI with full ferts. yes, higher light and Co2.. But still Stem plants with major roots. If when you plant your stems you cut 3 to 4 leaves high off at the stem. The new roots underground will grow from these old leaf nodes. I can tell with my stems if the root tabs are consumed. I get more root growth in the column on the stems. So I dose them again.


----------



## Aquaticfan

RAZmonkey said:


> All water going in the tank is RO.


Why all RO? Does your tap have issues? In a planted tank doing all RO can be not so beneficial. Ro is stripped of all the nutrients, KH and GH become very unstable. If possible its better to use a mix or just strait tap unless you have a issue with your water supply.


----------



## RAZmonkey

My tap water is salty. Both naturally and because of a water softener. I adjust GH and KH with GH booster and baking soda.


----------



## Daximus

Aquaticfan said:


> Not even so much about what root tabs will leach into the water. But remember many plants are opportunistic and adapt easy. Stem plants are the ones I see do this the most. Like the Hygro we have talked about in the past. Hygro is a Stem, BUT its a root feeder. When it doesnt get what it wants from the substrtate it will go after the column. Ive got some VERY nice Limnophila aromatica and some very nice very red alternanthera reineckii, both stem plants. But BOTH with the largest roots ive ever seen in a substrate come out of the stem.. Seriously like 4 to 5 inches long BIG thick long roots. I use the Osmocote Plus root tabs with most everything stem and root feeders alike. Plus im also dosing EI with full ferts. yes, higher light and Co2.. But still Stem plants with major roots. If when you plant your stems you cut 3 to 4 leaves high off at the stem. The new roots underground will grow from these old leaf nodes. *I can tell with my stems if the root tabs are consumed. I get more root growth in the column on the stems. So I dose them again.*


I love this place. Learn so much everyday. Thanks Aquaticfan! 

I have seen this behavior and it puzzled me. I had some "planted" bacopa, and it did have some root like growth. I moved it and sort of wrapped it around some driftwood for a different look...it got all leggy and odd looking, shooting out little root looking things everywhere. Crazy, now that makes total sense. :thumbsup:


----------



## Aquaticfan

RAZmonkey said:


> My tap water is salty. Both naturally and because of a water softener. I adjust GH and KH with GH booster and baking soda.


Salty? Like how salty? I've run water that's heavy hard mineral full well water. Ph of 8.3 hardness gh of 15 and kh14. With a water softener no adverse issues. 

I'm just of the opinion that because RO is stripped especially if you should run co2 its harder to manage ph and kh, gh. It can get acidic much more easily. Have you thought about doing a mix of tap and RO?


----------



## Aquaticfan

Daximus said:


> I love this place. Learn so much everyday. Thanks Aquaticfan!
> 
> I have seen this behavior and it puzzled me. I had some "planted" bacopa, and it did have some root like growth. I moved it and sort of wrapped it around some driftwood for a different look...it got all leggy and odd looking, shooting out little root looking things everywhere. Crazy, now that makes total sense. :thumbsup:


Plants behavior is quite interesting.


----------



## wkndracer

Aquaticfan said:


> Salty? Like how salty? I've run water that's heavy hard mineral full well water. Ph of 8.3 hardness gh of 15 and kh14. With a water softener no adverse issues.
> 
> I'm just of the opinion that because RO is stripped especially if you should run co2 its harder to manage ph and kh, gh. It can get acidic much more easily. Have you thought about doing a mix of tap and RO?


Sodium regeneration on the resin bed for the 'water softener'?
Ion exchange of sodium for calcium and the TDS actually is the same or rises slightly but the tests needed for seeing it are different. It was an issue here.
Pre filter; 
Ph 7.2
kh 196.9 ppm
gh 179 ppm
phosphate 1.0
iron (off the scale) Hagen test.
Nitrate, Nitrite, Ammonia 0.0

Conditioned (salt regen)
Ph 7.0
kh 196.9
gh 35.8
phosphate .75
Nitrate, Nitrite, Ammonia 0.0

Problems with plants and Angelfish both before switching to RO.
Switching to RO setting the water to 4-6dGH and 2dKH both low tech and injected systems plants are growing better and fish breed constantly.
Stability has not shown itself to be an issue (made the switch in 2009). 

While mixing untreated well tap in a ratio would save a couple bucks on GH booster it would also include unknowns from the source being added back after expending the funds and effort to remove them. 
(didn't / doesn't make sense to me)
If I remember correctly ground water had salt water intrusion issues for the OP also.

Root tabs here are added every 90 days to maintain growth with the brand I'm using.


----------



## Aquaticfan

So how are you testing for salt in the well water?


----------



## wkndracer

Aquaticfan said:


> So how are you testing for salt in the well water?


Guessing this is a Q for the OP as I don't have salt intrusion issues (thankfully) just high iron and tannic water. Just to complete the exchange from my third :icon_wink 
Estimating salinity values works for most. Specific gravity or TDS

Basically I estimated like everybody else using TDS to GH, KH comparisons starting out. 
My brother is possessed by the dark side being a reefer and has a fairly good hydrometer too.
When the GH numbers change as they did above 179ppm to 35.8 ppm yet the TDS reading didn't change much at all the water is not any softer it just has a mineral shift occurring. 

Later I cheated







and used a favor with the water lab guys at work. Demineralization for the production of super heated steam, desalinization, potable water supply production all fall under they're department processing millions of gallons everyday. Cool tools in the lab! They even have a dry weight oven/scale and a couple geeks to use the the stuff LOL. Took samples to them and they tested it, they also verify my RO production @ 2ppm total or less about every 4-6 months when I ask.
Fringe benefit.


----------



## Daximus

wkndracer said:


> Guessing this is a Q for the OP as I don't have salt intrusion issues (thankfully) just high iron and tannic water. Just to complete the exchange from my third :icon_wink
> Estimating salinity values works for most. Specific gravity or TDS
> 
> Basically I estimated like everybody else using TDS to GH, KH comparisons starting out.
> My brother is possessed by the dark side being a reefer and has a fairly good hydrometer too.
> When the GH numbers change as they did above 179ppm to 35.8 ppm yet the TDS reading didn't change much at all the water is not any softer it just has a mineral shift occurring.
> 
> Later I cheated
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and used a favor with the water lab guys at work. Demineralization for the production of super heated steam, desalinization, potable water supply production all fall under they're department processing millions of gallons everyday. Cool tools in the lab! They even have a dry weight oven/scale and a couple geeks to use the the stuff LOL. Took samples to them and they tested it, they also verify my RO production @ 2ppm total or less about every 4-6 months when I ask.
> Fringe benefit.


Nerd. :biggrin:


----------



## wkndracer

Daximus said:


> Nerd. :biggrin:


Bwahahaha! waterweedhead!


----------



## RAZmonkey

Salty because it tastes salty out of the tap. Seriously. There is a noticeable salty taste to the water post softener. The water report from the city also describes salt contamination. TDS of softened water is 600+. According to my water report, TDS of city water is >500 (above the legal limit) and their reason was salt contamination.


----------



## RAZmonkey

I put Jobe's sticks in the substrate about two weeks ago. These holes showed up this morning. Not there yesterday. What am I missing??


----------



## Kathyy

What is the fauna of your tank? Bristlenose plecos will get a taste for broad leaved plants.


----------



## RAZmonkey

I have 2 albino bristle nosed plecos.

I also have 4 young angels, 5 flame tetras, 4 rummynose tetras, 11 neon tetras and 4 juli corys. 

I guess I need to feed the plecos more??


----------



## Kathyy

Guessing it might help. Fresh sword plant leaves are extremely yummy though. Mine would even eat large Anubias leaves. Now that plant is gone she seems better behaved. Apparently C. wendtii leaves aren't very tasty, thank goodness!

Try offering a chunk of zucchini or cucumber a couple times a week.


----------



## KZB

Goodluck chuck


----------

