# Should I go with Eco Complete substrate?



## Blue Ridge Reef (Feb 10, 2008)

I grow lots of plants in Eco Complete. My only complaint is that there aren't color selections. It's inert and heavy enough to keep plants rooted and large enough particle size to not compact easily.


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## DaveKS (Apr 2, 2019)

Soil should be topped with finer 1-3mm sand/gravel not coarse river stone, you’ll get to much organics leaching into water. Use to fine a sand and soil will suffocate.

HTH pool on left here is perfect, other sand on right to fine.









Peace river is good choice if you want more natural brownish color. You can scatter some pea/river gravel on top for decoration purposes.


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## ChefAsa (Aug 23, 2019)

Thanks DaveKS; Great advice! Peerfict input!


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## minorhero (Mar 28, 2019)

I would definitely dump the eco-complete it doesn't add anything to the tank except cost. I am unsure if the viastone adds anything. Looking it up it's expanded clay used in hydroponics. I don't know if it's inert or if you would get any pH buffering from it. Have you heard other people recieving a benefit from it or is the addition of it here an experiment? 

Be aware your layers will get mixed up in time. It's simply the nature of these tanks. That said the only layers I would do would be well sifted organic soil and an inert cap. Keep the soil to 1 inch or less and the cap to under 2 inches but at least 1 inch deep.


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## ChefAsa (Aug 23, 2019)

Minorhero;Yes! This whole project is somewhat an experiment! It's all in my background! Lol! Can a sifted organic soil sit directly on floor of aquarium with no 'drainage layer'? The eventual mixing of the layers is understood & not an issue for me. But I was under the impression that soil would need a LECA-like layer underneath.


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## Triport (Sep 3, 2017)

Personally I hated Eco Complete. One of my least favorite substrates I have tried. I didn't like the look or texture and felt like it didn't really do a good job of holding newly planted plants in place.


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## ChefAsa (Aug 23, 2019)

Thanks Triport; but ya got any substitute suggestions? The more information the better the decision.

Bump: Tomorrow I'll do more research on LECA-like stone's. Maybe (probably) they're unnecessary altogether. Also looking more into the Walstad 'method'


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## DaveKS (Apr 2, 2019)

Yep, use lava which is much cheap to build up higher areas, top with couple layers of cheap $5 a roll fiberglass window screen. Put 1-1.5” soil on top of that then cap it with 1-1.5” proper sand. 

Don’t see much point in putting a layer of more expensive viastone at bottom where plant roots will probably never go. Know it has pretty high CEC value but no point if a root never gets to it. The soil has a even higher CEC value and it’s only 1-1.5” below surface.


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## minorhero (Mar 28, 2019)

The soil will filter down into any layer below it because its particle size will be significantly smaller then anything else. Some people will add inert gravel or sand around the edges of a tank and put the soil in the middle this is 'mostly' an aesthetic issue though there is some science behind not wanting direct sunlight to come in contact with soil (not a problem for most aquariums). My understanding is that putting rocks down under soil does not improve circulation. The whole point of an inert cap on top of the soil is to stop it from getting into the water column after all. Diana Walstad in her book talks about the importance of planting heavily when using soil because the plants roots will be providing the oxygen to the soil which is how you keep the bacteria in it from dying. I will not swear to the possibility of rocks under soil not adding something to the equation however, I just have not heard of it. If you have a source that is contrary please share as I will be building a Walstad tank in the near future and I am interested in any information I can get.


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## germanblueramlover (Jun 9, 2013)

Not sure about Viastone specifically but some LECA type materials tend to float as well, since they are very porous and lightweight. Something to bear in mind.


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## DaveKS (Apr 2, 2019)

ChefAsa said:


> Minorhero;Yes! This whole project is somewhat an experiment! It's all in my background! Lol! Can a sifted organic soil sit directly on floor of aquarium with no 'drainage layer'? The eventual mixing of the layers is understood & not an issue for me. But I was under the impression that soil would need a LECA-like layer underneath.


Look up Walstad type aquariums, their basically a soil layer trapped under the coarse sand cap and completely submerged. 

But you know from what you’ve described vast majority of plants sound like they’ll be air plants.


You might find this interesting. Note most of it is just a hollow frame.


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## ursamajor (Oct 6, 2015)

Are aquasoils an option? I've had fun experimenting with organic potting soil, but there are definitely some drawbacks. It's a bit unpredictable - some people have nice tanks with it, while some have algae soup. And it's also more messy. I like aquasoil (any brand really) because it's more predictable, more clean, and more forgiving than an inert substrate if your fertilization regimen isn't dialed in. Only downside is it's more expensive.

Regarding eco-complete - I could grow some plants in it. I can grow more plants in aquasoil. I think if you wanted to build up your substrate eco-complete is a fine choice, but there are less expensive options as already mentioned.


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## ChefAsa (Aug 23, 2019)

Actually I've think decided not to use Viastone (which I have on-hand for other uses)(won't need weed barrier cloth either, which I have on-hand, for other uses), & I hate very much. Evil stuff! Maybe I'm wrong, but don't really see the need of it, especially the more I read of the Walstad method.(wish she'd do a 2020 edition).

Another concern of mine is the current way I've designed the tank is having the aquarium portion of the tank at approx. 30% (>1.25 cu. ft.,<10 gal. or 6> inch depth. The upper portion around 70% (2.5 cu.ft., +-20 gal. atmosphere.)

The Walstad way is heavily planted. Which I don't want. And for obvious reasons can't have. Plant selection will be critical. And as noted by DaveKS, I'll have a selection of air plants, but %wise a little more terrestrial plants (if you can count semi-epiphytes as somewhat terrestrial.)

What I'm getting at is: 1) will there be a leaching/run-off into the aquarium side & to what effect? 2) if so, how to alleviate any - issues and will a Viastone/leca bottom or buffer (of course separated by a physical barrier) provide any benefit?


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## ChefAsa (Aug 23, 2019)

Seems Fluval Shrimp and Plant Stratum, Eco-Complete are aquarium substrates. While ADA Amazonia II, Mr. Aqua are aquasoils. What's the difference?


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

ChefAsa said:


> Seems Fluval Shrimp and Plant Stratum, Eco-Complete are aquarium substrates. While ADA Amazonia II, Mr. Aqua are aquasoils. What's the difference?



Well, in some ways it would be the difference between sand and dirt. Plants love growing in dirt but will survive in sand. 

From an aquarium standpoint, I suspect the conversation will get a lot longer than what I posted. 

Aquasoils do grow plants very nicely but seem to burn out after around a year. You can add more and life continues.
Substrates can last much longer. I currently have Eco-complete in my 3-4 year old tank - and it still gets the job done (see build thread below)


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## ursamajor (Oct 6, 2015)

ChefAsa said:


> Seems Fluval Shrimp and Plant Stratum, Eco-Complete are aquarium substrates. While ADA Amazonia II, Mr. Aqua are aquasoils. What's the difference?


Aquasoils are a type of substrate. A "substrate" is just whatever you have at the bottom of your tank. It can be sand, soil, eco-complete, or anything else that sinks. "Aquasoil" usually refers to a pelleted soil product. Common brands include ADA Amazonia and Tropica. I would consider the Fluval substrate you listed an aquasoil as well.

People usually contrast aquasoils with inert substrates. Aquasoils supply nutrients and usually affect water chemistry. Inert substrates (like eco-complete) do not supply nutrients or affect water chemistry, though they can have many other benefits (low cost, aesthetics, ease of planting, predictability, etc.)


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## Kubla (Jan 5, 2014)

ChefAsa said:


> Seems Fluval Shrimp and Plant Stratum, Eco-Complete are aquarium substrates. While ADA Amazonia II, Mr. Aqua are aquasoils. What's the difference?


Any kind of sand, gravel, dirt etc. that you put in the bottom of the aquarium can be considered substrates. Active substrates are also referred to as aquasoils. The Fluval, ADA and Mr Aqua are active substrates. They provide nutrients to the plants. EC is inert, it does not provide nutrients to the plants. (There are some studies that indicate EC may provide a very small amount of micro nutrients)

Edit: My coffee is just kicking in. Looks like I'm repeating what others have already covered.


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## livebearerlove (Aug 20, 2013)

I have multiple tanks- some have Eco-Complete. Some have aquasoils, some have gravel, some have artificial substrates. Depends on inhabitants and plant life.

Eco complete is easier and reliable (you can 'change or clean' in an instant with a rinse). Aquasoils are a compounded mix in tiny spheres that are a bit temperamental (too much adjustment and it can get dusty and messy). Walsted has too many variables for me; I dont recommend it for someone who is new to the hobby.

You will most likley be dosing the water column (with your ferts) so inert/semi inert substrate may be ideal. I would look into eco complete and gravel/blasting sand.

Bump:


Kubla said:


> Edit: My coffee is just kicking in. Looks like I'm repeating what others have already covered.


Same here- I cant type fast enough.


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## nothreat33 (Aug 5, 2019)

If an inert substrate doesnt have any nutrients, how do plants that get their nutrients through their roots, not stem plants, do so? The water circulation through the inert substrate that I guess isn't compacted but open?


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## germanblueramlover (Jun 9, 2013)

I'm not sure what your goal with a drainage layer is? It makes sense in a terrarium type setup where you don't want waterlogged soil molding, but in this case everything will be underwater anyway... Is there some benefit to this - having a more open space for circulation beneath the main substrate - that I'm not aware of?



nothreat33 said:


> If an inert substrate doesnt have any nutrients, how do plants that get their nutrients through their roots, not stem plants, do so? The water circulation through the inert substrate that I guess isn't compacted but open?


Yes, from water circulation, and from waste breaking down in the substrate. A lot of substrates also have the capacity to take in nutrients which they release to the plants.


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## ntdsc (Jul 24, 2019)

I think that it's not compacted enough. Stepping in a lake you seep down, whereas rainfall in a divot in soil, it stays clear because the soil is compacted. I'm going to add several layers of egg crates to hold the soil together, an egg crate on bottom, dirt filling the crate holes, and then above, and then another crate, dirt filling, and dirt above, etc, because the crate supports itself and the dirt, but in mud, the crate above would sink down, so it would need some plastic pipe to support the crate above and zip ties/silicone to keep it together and glue the first layer down. Imagine how much sand you would have to have to have the same amount of sand in the 1 inch crate, to keep it 1 inches, you'd probably need 3 inches of sand.


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