# Is this brown algae?



## philyoosays (Sep 30, 2019)

Hey guys,

I have a no-tech tank that is still cycling. I'm getting a brown gunky buildup on the roots of my frogbit and duckweed. If I pick up the afflicted duckweed, and rub the root with my finger, one of two things happen. Either the brown gunks rubs off and I see a nicely green root, or the whole root is dead and disintegrates off the leaves. 

Is that brown algae starving out my duckweed?

I know getting any algae eaters is not a good idea at this point in my tank but is there anything I can do to not have to pick up each afflicted duckweed and clean it? 

Should I risk an algae eater? 

I have nerite snails that seem to be doing well, and three whisker shrimp that have survived their first week in my tank and seem to be happy.

EDIT.
Both my nitrates and nitrites are not way high but elevated. I'll get another reading this weekend.
I'm worried because if my duckweed keeps dying it'll keep my ammonia elevated, meaning nitrites stay elevated, meaning nitrates will remain elevated.


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## jstehman (Dec 13, 2010)

Did you seed the tank with anything bio from another established tank?

I would wait until nitr I tes are zero before adding any fauna.

Diatom algae will happen but should go away as the cycle continues to mature
Do you have any on the glass or at the bottom by the substrate?

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## philyoosays (Sep 30, 2019)

jstehman said:


> Did you seed the tank with anything bio from another established tank?
> 
> I would wait until nitr I tes are zero before adding any fauna.
> 
> ...


This is my first tank and I don't have a filter so I didn't ask the LFS for anything. Figure it'll happen on its own with enough time. I don't think I have brown algae on anything but the plants. The three sides that I don't clean for the nerites appear to be green algae as well as on the substrate.

The dying duckweed will up my overall ammonia though right? Thus keep my nitrite and nitrate levels elevated?

If it looks rotting, I always take it out. If I see clear white hairs forming I cut off whatever it's forming on and get rid of it. 

(I had a fiasco a little bit ago because one of my emerse grown bacopa just didn't take to my tank. I saw the white hair like algae on it and figured the shrimps would eat it. I went on a trip and when I came back, the bacopa, which still looked fresh and green disintegrated the moment I touched it with tweezers and it was clear that it had been rotting so if I see clear hairs, I am johnny on the spot with snippers. Later on, I realized my rock cap was too thick and none of my plants were rooting to the soil under the rock cap.)


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## jstehman (Dec 13, 2010)

What are the levels of 
Ammonia
Nitrite
NitrAte?

Ammonia should be zero or close to it, and nitrIte should be Zero or you're not cycled.. you don't have enough bacteria yet to convert the wastes from the decaying plant matter and snail poo.

If it were me, I would wait til nitrites and ammonia were zero before adding anything.

But I always start a tank with established bio material of some kind. Usually a sponge filter or some substrate from another tank.

Maybe someone with more experience from starting from scratch will chime in.

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## sfsamm (Apr 3, 2017)

philyoosays said:


> This is my first tank and I don't have a filter


Get a filter.
Your tank needs filtration and circulation to maintain any level of health. Sponge filters are inexpensive and very effective and work very well in smaller tanks. You'll need a small air pump and some airline as well, all can be had for less than $20 and takes minutes to setup. Only need a plug in for the air pump.

Stagnant still water isn't a good environment for anything, even just plants needs circulation.

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## philyoosays (Sep 30, 2019)

sfsamm said:


> Get a filter.
> Your tank needs filtration and circulation to maintain any level of health. Sponge filters are inexpensive and very effective and work very well in smaller tanks. You'll need a small air pump and some airline as well, all can be had for less than $20 and takes minutes to setup. Only need a plug in for the air pump.
> 
> Stagnant still water isn't a good environment for anything, even just plants needs circulation.
> ...


I'm assuming you've never heard of the Walstad method.
I've gotten lots of people who keep telling me I'm crazy or not doing the right thing but please keep an open mind as this is a viable system and there are lots of examples of it working online and Youtube.


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## jstehman (Dec 13, 2010)

What is your substrate?

Even the Walstad method relies on bacteria in the topsoil to cycle.

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## philyoosays (Sep 30, 2019)

jstehman said:


> What is your substrate?
> 
> Even the Walstad method relies on bacteria in the topsoil to cycle.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


I have organic composted soil under a gravel cap. The bacteria in my soil is very active as I see what I presume are co2 bubbles coming out of the substrate regularly. Also through the sides of the tank, I see air pockets forming in the soil all the time. 

Cycling is done. In a newbie mistake, I added too much bioload too fast because I was impatient (4 tetras, 1 betta, 5 shrimps all within 36 hours. The tank already had a few shrimp and snails who lived in there for 3 weeks during cycling, another newbie mistake I know but they are now fairly established as they are molting and eating voraciously).

I was nervous so I tested my water once a day for a week, making sure I test with water from different parts of the aquarium given that I have no circulation. All parts of the tank showed the exact same reading, and the parameters haven't budged except for my GH which elevated very slightly on day one but hasn't changed since that move up.

I'm taking that as a great sign that the ecosystem in my tank is strong.

Unless I'm wrong...


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## sfsamm (Apr 3, 2017)

philyoosays said:


> I'm assuming you've never heard of the Walstad method.
> 
> I've gotten lots of people who keep telling me I'm crazy or not doing the right thing but please keep an open mind as this is a viable system and there are lots of examples of it working online and Youtube.


Quite familiar with Walstad, with the reference to your first tank I didn't assume you were attempting it as most haven't heard of it and are unfamiliar with the dynamics behind the method.

Your plants will still benefit from circulation in the tank though and issues caused by stagnant water will be avoided. A small bubbler or tiny circulation pump will not take away from your attempt at walstad and I still recommend it even if just for a period of time during the day.

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As for the brown algae I can't tell from photos if it is diatoms or something else. Diatoms are very common in new tanks and generally disappear after a few week though they can last for extended periods depending on a huge array of factors. Being that you are utilizing Walstad you "should" see them on their way out soon. 

On the roots of duckweed I can see diatoms potentially preventing proper uptake of nutrients from the water column as duckweed has a simple root system that may not be able to function properly with them attached. If you continue to experience issues with the duckweed another plant with a bit more to its roots would be frog bit which is also very small or something a bit larger you could check outsalvinia or red root floaters. Duckweed can get enormous (like 8" across or more) and contrary to popular belief dwarf versions will also grow quite large in proper conditions.

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## philyoosays (Sep 30, 2019)

sfsamm said:


> Quite familiar with Walstad, with the reference to your first tank I didn't assume you were attempting it as most haven't heard of it and are unfamiliar with the dynamics behind the method.
> 
> Your plants will still benefit from circulation in the tank though and issues caused by stagnant water will be avoided. A small bubbler or tiny circulation pump will not take away from your attempt at walstad and I still recommend it even if just for a period of time during the day.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk


I know. I had to switch forums because the people on the other Forum won't even answer a simple question like "How do I know when I'm done cycling". Instead they tell me to stop doing what I'm doing, tell me I'm basically being a stubborn idiot, and when I try to defend my choices, they call me stand-offish. I like this forum WAY better. I don't have to collect a bunch of responses to find one person who will answer the question.

That being said, I am considering making a DIY wave generator to put some slight ripples into the surface mostly for the ripple effect that the light will make but it's also more circulation than I have now. But I'm starting up two more tanks so I may not for a while or at all if I decide I want to see this through.

Interesting note, I came across this video about an LFS in San Francisco that has not done water changes in 27 years. They do use filters, co2, and air but no water changes. They attribute it to the deep deep sand bed that they use. It's so deep there is enough BB to just completely demolish any impurities and ammonia and nitrites and nitrates. I know it sounds crazy, infact the people on my original forum basically called it a scam. 

Also the DIY method they use for co2 is genius. Even if you call hogwash on the lack of water changes, check out this video at least to see their co2 method.


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## sfsamm (Apr 3, 2017)

Actual "deep" sand beds are amazing for what they can accomplish. They can also be extremely dangerous to stock if not setup and cared for appropriately. They also take a very long time and a significant amount of sand and space to be entirely effective and the scales can easily tip out of your favor if the tank is mismanaged. But they are truly a magical thing when done well. I have intentions on my build I'm planning to attempt this myself without a sump space to do so....

I also like to tinker in the dark, less acceptable methods of fishkeeping and its likely one of the main factors that has kept me interested in freshwater and I've never dabbled into the saltwater side of things. My stock health always has and always will be first, but there truly are a lot of ways to make it to the finish line in this hobby. Patience and research or the key to this hobby.

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