# black diamond



## NWA-Planted

So just thought I would share my experience thus far with the blackdiamond blasting sand. It works GREAT lol. No problems with my water quality, the fish do fine, including my cory's! Not to mention the plant root growth is astounding, removed a plant last night due to it being overcome with BBA... I didnt know if the roots were going to end... just thought I woudl share


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## djscotty

Yes plant growth is astounding with MGOPS. My one plant has grown almost 8-10" in less than 10 days without Co2 running. Love the color once the water fully settles in. Great choice of substrate!


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## jedimasterben

NWA-Planted said:


> So just thought I would share my experience thus far with the *blackdiamond blasting sand*. It works GREAT lol. No problems with my water quality, the fish do fine, including my cory's! Not to mention the plant root growth is astounding, removed a plant last night due to it being overcome with BBA... I didnt know if the roots were going to end... just thought I woudl share





djscotty said:


> Yes plant growth is astounding with *MGOPS*. My one plant has grown almost 8-10" in less than 10 days without Co2 running. Love the color once the water fully settles in. Great choice of substrate!


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## Jaguar

jedimasterben said:


>


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## NWA-Planted

I think I just lol'd..... all over the place...

blackdiamond blasting sand. Is a black blasting sand you can pick up for like 10 bucks for a 50 pound bag, and I believe MGOPS = Miracle Grow Organic Potting soil 

its... ok. When I first came here I had no idea what the hell people were talking about!!


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## Fishly

Where can you buy it?


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## Daximus

Fishly said:


> Where can you buy it?


Orschlens has it, if you have those where you are...


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## jedimasterben

NWA-Planted said:


> I think I just lol'd..... all over the place...
> 
> blackdiamond blasting sand. Is a black blasting sand you can pick up for like 10 bucks for a 50 pound bag, and I believe MGOPS = Miracle Grow Organic Potting soil
> 
> its... ok. When I first came here I had no idea what the hell people were talking about!!


Well, bu that guy has been here for over a year lol. He somehow missed the thread title AND content lol.

I guess he figured even a thread that short is tl:dr.


Fishly said:


> Where can you buy it?


Black diamon sand? Tractor supply is the best place but some Home Depot/Lowes carry it.


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## Jaguar

Lol. Glad to hear you're having success with it. I ironically wanted to use Black Diamond as a cap for my MGO, but I couldn't find it anywhere local... they must have thought I was crazy asking for coal slag for my fish tank. 

PS. I believe it's Miracle Gro Organic Choice Potting Mix, not soil. There is Potting Mix and Garden Soil. The garden soil has a bunch of fertilizers and manure in it, so you want to avoid it.


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## mattycakesclark

I am filling up my Black Diamond and MGOPM tank right now. Nothing special yet, but it is my first dirt tank. I have a 20 tall with Turface, and the roots were amazing as well.


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## NWA-Planted

jedimasterben said:


> Well, bu that guy has been here for over a year lol. He somehow missed the thread title AND content lol.
> 
> I guess he figured even a thread that short is tl:dr.
> 
> Black diamon sand? Tractor supply is the best place but some Home Depot/Lowes carry it.


 
Yea I noticed that after I made my comment haha. *shrug*

I didnt use mine as a cap thats all I have in there, as to teh above, pretty much any supply store or home improvement store should carry it or be able to get it  Looks really nice too!


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## generalpetres

how would you guys say black diamond compares to tms, ie look, grain size, set up?


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## AnniePN

what is tms??? I've been reading posts on this site for a few months, and I am still overwhelmed by the abbreviations..


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## NWA-Planted

AnniePN said:


> what is tms??? I've been reading posts on this site for a few months, and I am still overwhelmed by the abbreviations..


TMS - tahitan moon sand 

I have never used TMS, but from what I have heard from other people its almost identical. I beleive there is also a couple of sizes for the grains of black diamond. I have the 20-40? I think and its has the texture feel and consistency of sand.


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## Hoppy

Black diamond is a grit blasting media, so it comes in different particle sizes, depending on the effect you want to achieve when grit blasting with it. I don't recall the designations of the sizes, nor how many sizes it comes in. Google will probably lead you to that information. When I got mine, the store had a broken bag, almost full, so I took it for a very low price, and didn't even look at the grit size.


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## NWA-Planted

There is I beleive 4 grit sizes to this media, they are listed at the bottom of the bags. I have only ever seen 2 sizes though when I bought mine. I think I spent 24 bucks to put a roughly 2 inch +/- substrate in a 125 gallon aqaurium


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## JasonG75

Hoppy said:


> I don't recall the designations of the sizes, nor how many sizes it comes in.


 
It does come in 2 sizes...I would suggest calling a local TactorSupply if there is one available, for more details.


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## bsmith

JasonG75 said:


> It does come in 2 sizes...I would suggest calling a local TactorSupply if there is one available, for more details.


Cant think of any other way to get a hold of you since I have sent multiple pm's about he tpn+, maybe your notifications aren't turned on. 

Please pm me about it so I can get the ball rolling and get the tpn+ paid for and on its way here. 

My apologies to the OP. :thumbsup:


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## sublimescorpio

Before I start a new thread...I think black diamond is the same thing as black beauty (which is all I can find in my area).. What would be the suggested size for the black beauty? Extra fine, fine, or medium; or does it not matter? If there are any pro/cons between them? Medium would be less likely to have anaerobic pockets, right..

Also do you think you could add it one cup at a time with fish in an established tank, or the fish should be removed?

Thanks!
Mary


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## xxbenjamminxx

Yes they are both the same thing just packaged under different names by different companies. Usually they come in a 20/40 grit which is comparable to PFS and the 60/80 which is more of a powder or like half the size of a PFS grain. I have both and would def go with the 20/40. Other stuff just seems like it would compact to easily.


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## frenchymasters

wow i just think i found the substrate im going to go with! yay for finding this sub-forum and seeing this! im calling the TS store tomorrow!


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## sublimescorpio

Cool thanks Benjammin!

..it seems like a great, and cheap, substrate


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## Lesley

Where can I purchase some Black Diamond on the East Coast? Massachusetts to be exact. Home Depot? Lowes? Body Shop Supply Store? Help a sister out LOL. I''m setting up my 55g & I need some very soon. Thanks


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## sublimescorpio

Did you try http://www.tractorsupply.com/ Lesley?


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## OverStocked

NWA-Planted said:


> Not to mention the plant root growth is astounding, removed a plant last night due to it being overcome with BBA... I didnt know if the roots were going to end... just thought I woudl share


Did you know a large root mass isn't necessarily a good thing? While it is good that the planting media didn't inhibit plant/root growth, a plant with really long roots is one that is searching for the nutrients that it needs. You should add some RootCaps to the substrate to give them what they need.


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## Lesley

Thanks Sublime.... Didn't realize they carry it there & not too far from me either.

Here's another question. It comes in different Grits...... What Grit would be the safest for Cichlids or any Substrate laying type fish?

It comes in 20-40 blasting media or 30-60 blasting media.


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## sublimescorpio

It's called wicked sister, 20-40 grit, no problem. 

..just found out today myself.


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## xxbenjamminxx

Tractor Supply is where I get my Black Diamond as well. Want to say $7.99 for 50lbs.


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## Hoppy

sublimescorpio said:


> Did you try http://www.tractorsupply.com/ Lesley?


That seems to be the only dealer around here too, about 25 miles from me. Not bad at all.


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## Lesley

So 20-40 Grit is the Finer Grit? I just remember reading a thread where Hoppy noted he had trouble with his Cory's rubbing their barbels off because of the sharpness of the Grit, also Hoppy mentioned it cut his fingers when he put his hands in the tank to tend to his plants. I'm just worried about this stuff cutting my fish & causing damage & wounds that will lead to infection. 

Has anyone been using Black Diamond for any period of time & what type fish do you have?


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## Daximus

Lesley said:


> So 20-40 Grit is the Finer Grit?


Just like sand paper (it is sand paper in essence), higher the number finer the grit. You want the 20/40 stuff. 

My 90 hasn't been up too long, month or so, but I'm using 20/40 Black Diamond and my Corys seem to absolutely love it. They root around all over the place with the whole front side of their heads buried in the stuff. All their barbels are still accounted for. The fish: 2 Discus, 6 Angels, big herd of Neons, few Ghost Shrimp, and 3 Corys. 

I can't speak for anyone else, but I rubbed some in my hand for a bit before using it, didn't seem particularly abrasive to me. :confused1:


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## jedimasterben

Lesley said:


> So 20-40 Grit is the Finer Grit? I just remember reading a thread where Hoppy noted he had trouble with his Cory's rubbing their barbels off because of the sharpness of the Grit, also Hoppy mentioned it cut his fingers when he put his hands in the tank to tend to his plants. I'm just worried about this stuff cutting my fish & causing damage & wounds that will lead to infection.
> 
> Has anyone been using Black Diamond for any period of time & what type fish do you have?


I've got coreys and haven't had any issues with the little ones' barbels.

Only issue is its rough when gets up under my fingernails, but its definitely not able to cut skin unless the skin is already raw or damaged.


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## Fishly

Where else can you find this stuff besides tractor supply? I've called a ton of people in my town and even Lowes doesn't carry it.


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## OverStocked

Look for places that carry sandblasting gear. Welding shops might.


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## audioaficionado

Hoppy said:


> That seems to be the only dealer around here too, about 25 miles from me. Not bad at all.


No TS love in Oregon :icon_sad:


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## Daximus

audioaficionado said:


> No TS love in Oregon :icon_sad:


Do you have an Orscheln? It's mostly a midwest thing I think. 

Look for a store that sells big air compressors, power tools and such. Not like a Home Depot, but like a big machinery store that sells to other businesses. Also might as your local body shop where they get their supplies from...auto paint and blasting sand are sometimes sold from the same dealer.


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## Hoppy

I suspect that Black Diamond and Black Beauty are not exactly alike, and that there are even more brands of coal slag blasting grit, which may also be different. I got mine about 15 years ago, from a grit blasting place near me, and they sold me a damaged bag, with some of it already leaked out, and the bag very much shredded on the outside. I don't recall what it was called. It definitely did leave tiny cuts on my fingers after I planted a 120 gallon tank with it as the substrate. I didn't bleed, but it was easy to see the tiny cuts. Black Diamond may not do that.


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## Lesley

I found a Tractor Supply Company that has two stores near me so I'm going to grab a couple bags this week, they are 50 pounds for $7.99 so it's not bad. I'll take a shot with it & hope for the best. Here's the link for the store, you can view it for yourselves. 

http://tsc.tractorsupply.com/search?w=black+diamond&searchButton.x=0&searchButton.y=0


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## Fishly

Does anyone know how much it would cost to ship a bag or two? I really want some of this sand, but it seems that Nowhere, AL isn't that into sandblasting.


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## Hoppy

Fishly said:


> Does anyone know how much it would cost to ship a bag or two? I really want some of this sand, but it seems that Nowhere, AL isn't that into sandblasting.


Opportunity knocks! Maybe you should invest in some grit blasting equipment, rent a shop, then order the Black Diamond at wholesale prices! Kill two birds with one stone?


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## audioaficionado

Fishly said:


> Does anyone know how much it would cost to ship a bag or two? I really want some of this sand, but it seems that Nowhere, AL isn't that into sandblasting.


http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200022824_200022824

Looks like $30 shipping to AL plus the $8 cost.


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## Lesley

Well, I went & picked up two 50 pound bags of it today. The Tractor Supply Company has two stores in my area appx. the same distance from me, 25 miles one way. So I took the wife for a ride & we picked up a couple bags. Hopefully 2 bags are enough for a 55g..... If not, I'll have to take another ride which was not bad at all. Good luck getting you some whoever is looking.


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## generalpetres

i would love to be able to purchase some bd media but there are no close stores that carry it near me. it will cost me 38 to purchase from nothern 8+30 shipping. ill probably just end up getting Tahitian moon sand from marinedepot for 14 a bag.


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## Fishly

Marine Depot is at $14 + $8 shipping for 20lbs - $1.10/pound
PetSmart (on sale) is at $17.99 for 20lbs - $.90/pound
Northern Tool is at $30 + $8 shipping for 50lbs - $.76/pound

Looks like Northern Tool is the best deal, even with the killer shipping.


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## generalpetres

Fishly said:


> Marine Depot is at $14 + $8 shipping for 20lbs - $1.10/pound
> PetSmart (on sale) is at $17.99 for 20lbs - $.90/pound
> Northern Tool is at $30 + $8 shipping for 50lbs - $.76/pound
> 
> Looks like Northern Tool is the best deal, even with the killer shipping.


 but your not taking into account that i wouldnt need to pay for shipping because i can place a will call order.

so $14/20lbs and you get $.70/pound


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## Monster Fish

Does anyone have any experience with Black Diamond or Black Beauty with fish that might potentially ingest some of the grains? Im talking about larger fish like bichirs and cichlids.


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## Fishly

generalpetres said:


> but your not taking into account that i wouldnt need to pay for shipping because i can place a will call order.
> 
> so $14/20lbs and you get $.70/pound


What's a "will call" order?


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## jedimasterben

Monster Fish said:


> Does anyone have any experience with Black Diamond or Black Beauty with fish that might potentially ingest some of the grains? Im talking about larger fish like bichirs and cichlids.


My cichlids are fine with the 40/60 grit, they dig and dig and dig and they're all ok.


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## Lesley

Fishly said:


> What's a "will call" order?


A "Will Call Order" is a pick up order. You order over the phone or internet & arrange to pick up the order in person.


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## naturelady

I have a question for everyone else- you guys have convinced me that this should be safe for my cories, so I am planning use Black Diamond when I set up my new tank. However, I am wondering how much of the stuff I need to buy. Will one bag cover the bottom of a 29 gal tank (360 square inches) to an appropriate depth (I am thinking about 2 inches)??? Or should I just go ahead and buy two bags?

Also, the husband is not so keen on rinsing the stuff for me. He says, "The bag says its already washed, why do I need to wash it again?" Is there a big benefit to pre-rinsing it?


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## calebjimz

Anyone know where I can get this stuff in OC California? Also has anyone got a good carpet out of soil and a black diamond cap?


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## Fishly

naturelady said:


> I have a question for everyone else- you guys have convinced me that this should be safe for my cories, so I am planning use Black Diamond when I set up my new tank. However, I am wondering how much of the stuff I need to buy. Will one bag cover the bottom of a 29 gal tank (360 square inches) to an appropriate depth (I am thinking about 2 inches)??? Or should I just go ahead and buy two bags?
> 
> Also, the husband is not so keen on rinsing the stuff for me. He says, "The bag says its already washed, why do I need to wash it again?" Is there a big benefit to pre-rinsing it?


I got two 20lb bags of black Tahitian Moon sand yesterday as an early Christmas present. It only took one to give my 25g tank (12 x 24") an extra 2" flat (on top of ~1/2" of dirt). 50 pounds should be plenty for a 29g. Here's my tank with the sand sloped from about 1.5" to about 3" in the back:









I don't wash my sand. I used to, but it hurts my back too much and I learned that it will still get cloudy later because of mulm build-up. If you are going to wash your sand, put it in an old pillowcase and rinse it with a garden hose until the water runs clear.


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## amp

naturelady said:


> I have a question for everyone else- you guys have convinced me that this should be safe for my cories, so I am planning use Black Diamond when I set up my new tank. However, I am wondering how much of the stuff I need to buy. Will one bag cover the bottom of a 29 gal tank (360 square inches) to an appropriate depth (I am thinking about 2 inches)??? Or should I just go ahead and buy two bags?
> 
> Also, the husband is not so keen on rinsing the stuff for me. He says, "The bag says its already washed, why do I need to wash it again?" Is there a big benefit to pre-rinsing it?


One bag got me to a 3" layer, maybe a little more in my 29.


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## Hoppy

Grit blasting media is manufactured to be used for grit blasting, so we can't assume that it is suitable for an aquarium right out of the bag, even though it almost certainly is. Washing it first is just one more way to be more sure that it is OK.

I find that it is a lot easier to wash substrates a little at a time, not all at once. When it is wet it is heavier and harder to lift and handle. I line a collander with polyester "net" material, with very small holes, and wash about a quart or so at a time, just running water through it until it looks like clean water coming out. It is hard work, but easier than working with a whole bag at one time.


amp said:


> One bag got me to a 3" layer, maybe a little more in my 29.


That means a bag contains about 1080 cubic inches or 5/8 cubic feet. Water weighs 62.4 pounds per cubic foot, so if this stuff is the same weight as water the bag would weigh about 40 pounds. That must have been a 25 pound bag?


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## audioaficionado

If the MSDS sheet states the specific gravity, it should be easy to figure out the actual volume per lb or kg.

I put my aggregate/substrate in a 5 gal bucket and run a hose down in and all around it until the overflow is clear, but not so much that the sand or gravel also get flushed over the top. 

Question: When we use fine gravel or sand, is it likely to cause an anaerobic pockets issue at the bottom due to less flow/diffusion if we use the 3" depth often used with coarser substrates?

Would a critter like MTS be beneficial to aerate the substrate or are they more hassle for a planted tank then they're worth?


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## Fishly

It depends on how you define "hassle." MTS won't hurt your plants, so unless you don't like looking at them, there's not much harm they can do. They will keep the substrate more aerated than a tank without them, but there is a limit to how deep they will go, so there is still a chance of dead spots in deep substrate.


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## TexasCichlid

Had a Malawi peacock/hap stag tank with black beauty for a long time. A few protomelas sp. would actively sift the sand to no ill effect. Was not planted. I did have to rinse it very thoroughly to get it to rinse clear, and stuck a couple extra emperor 400's with fine filters on to get rid of the dust after first set-up.


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## Monster Fish

jedimasterben said:


> My cichlids are fine with the 40/60 grit, they dig and dig and dig and they're all ok.





TexasCichlid said:


> Had a Malawi peacock/hap stag tank with black beauty for a long time. A few protomelas sp. would actively sift the sand to no ill effect. Was not planted. I did have to rinse it very thoroughly to get it to rinse clear, and stuck a couple extra emperor 400's with fine filters on to get rid of the dust after first set-up.


Thanks for the experiences. I'll be sure to pick up a bag sometime soon then.


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## Laura

I attached a picture of what my water looked like filling up with unwashed Black Diamond. It was incredibly clear. I didnt have any issues at all with cloudiness.


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## OverStocked

Laura said:


> I attached a picture of what my water looked like filling up with unwashed Black Diamond. It was incredibly clear. I didnt have any issues at all with cloudiness.


Well this is what mine looked like....


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## Azarakiah

i picked up a bag of this stuff tonight at a local tractor supply, not what i figured it would be, its def a nice black, but i notice tiny dark greenish grit with it also. not sure if everyone else has this same prob or not but im prolly not gonna use the bag i just bought just cuz of the other color along with the black, not to mention how easy i scratches glass. i think ill stick with my less abrasive black petco aquarium sand..


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## Fishly

OverStocked said:


> Well this is what mine looked like....


That tank almost looks spooky...


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## frenchymasters

so my question is....so we set up a tank with this great cheap alternative...so we are just EI dosing and then we add soe root tabs as needed?


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## NWA-Planted

frenchymasters said:


> so my question is....so we set up a tank with this great cheap alternative...so we are just EI dosing and then we add soe root tabs as needed?


I have just been using fertz as normal, but I do need to get some root tabs


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## Hoppy

Plants are most likely to do best if they can get nutrients from both their roots and their leaves. So any inert substrate, which this is, can do better if root tabs are used.


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## bsmith

Treat this as any other inert substrate. Dose water column ferts like EI, flourish or whatever you like then add root tabs accordingly. I like rootmedic personally. They just released a new line that is comparable to ADA tourmaline which would be really nice because it has a very high CEC ratio which means it will absorb nutrients and allow the plants root structure to tap in to them as needed.


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## frenchymasters

bsmith said:


> Treat this as any other inert substrate. Dose water column ferts like EI, flourish or whatever you like then add root tabs accordingly. I like rootmedic personally. They just released a new line that is comparable to ADA tourmaline which would be really nice because it has a very high CEC ratio which means it will absorb nutrients and allow the plants root structure to tap in to them as needed.


 
do you have alink to this?


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## Hoppy

What is a CEC ratio and how can a root tab have it?


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## OverStocked

Hoppy said:


> What is a CEC ratio and how can a root tab have it?


Obviously it was poor wording. CEC, not CEC "ratio". 

However, RootMedic offers products that contain clay and pelletized peat. Both of which have good CEC.


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## bsmith

frenchymasters said:


> do you have alink to this?


Sure thing. 

Below is the product that has a high CEC and will (for ease of understanding) 'soak up' the ferts that you dose in the water column and probably some from the root tabs too. 

Prosand caps

The usefulness of this item below can be argued but in the end the will most certainly not hurt anything and will positively do good for the system. Pretty much what their function is, is allow an optimal environ for the bacteria that allow our tanks to thrive or become stagnant (if you are a bad tank keeper) ! Also compared with ADA's version, Rootmedics presents quite the bargain. 

Tourmaline-P caps

Here is their baisic line of root tabs/substrate fertilizer tabs. They have quite an array of root tabs from normal root fertilization to an Fe rich tab that also has peat in it to help soften the water. 

But again, below is just their normal tab. 

http://rootmedic.net/products-page/rootcaps/1-rm-complete

I made a mistake saying it was a ratio, oops. 

Since the black diamond is a nutritionally useful as the plastic bag it came in it is necessary to supplement it with something that does contain nutrients. 



Hoppy said:


> What is a CEC ratio and how can a root tab have it?


Do you really not know what CEC is?



OverStocked said:


> Obviously it was poor wording. CEC, not CEC "ratio".
> 
> However, RootMedic offers products that contain clay and pelletized peat. Both of which have good CEC.


Thank goodness the proprietor of the business which sells these products ears were ringing!


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## gtu2004

anyone in NYC know a place to get this black diamond sand around here? you can have my 50lbs used pool filter sand as a reward if you can find a store in Manhattan lol.


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## Monster Fish

gtu2004 said:


> anyone in NYC know a place to get this black diamond sand around here? you can have my 50lbs used pool filter sand as a reward if you can find a store in Manhattan lol.


Check the NY forum. There's a thread with a link to a place in Brooklyn that carries it.


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## Hoppy

gtu2004 said:


> anyone in NYC know a place to get this black diamond sand around here? you can have my 50lbs used pool filter sand as a reward if you can find a store in Manhattan lol.


Surely there are many farm equipment stores in Manhattan


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## Boredomb

Has anyone ever found metal pieces in their bag of black diamond before? The reason I am asking is because the other day I was rinsing my bag I bought getting it ready to do a substrate swap in my tank and I got a piece of metal stuck under my finger nail while rinsing it. It has me kinda concern about having bottom dwellers with this stuff.


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## generalpetres

how would you compare this stuff to say pool filter sand or estes sand. im looking for something that has a descent granular size that is larger than tms.


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## Hoppy

I think the major attribute of black diamond is.....it is black! And, of course, it is cheap. Other than that it is just a form of sand, but one with sharp edged particles, manufactured with no thought at all given to making it work well as a substrate. So, if metal particles have no adverse effect when it is used for grit blasting, it may contain metal particles. If scratching glass has no effect on its use for grit blasting, it may scratch glass.


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## bsmith

Hoppy said:


> I think the major attribute of black diamond is.....it is black! And, of course, it is cheap. Other than that it is just a form of sand, but one with sharp edged particles, manufactured with no thought at all given to making it work well as a substrate. So, if metal particles have no adverse effect when it is used for grit blasting, it may contain metal particles. If scratching glass has no effect on its use for grit blasting, it may scratch glass.


Wow, doesn't sound like a good option for those with bottom dwellers (cories/loaches/etc). 

Just FYI to people that want a black sand substrate that do have the aforementioned bottom dwellers and value their health and barbel condition. I have a few of those in one of my tanks and am using Tahitian Moon Sand by Caribsea. When I initially put it in the tank I didn't have any bottom dwellers with sensitive barbels so it wasn't an issue but now I have many and was worried about it. After doing some searching online I found a few reviews that said it WOULD cause issues with barbels but after digging deeper and actually contacting Caribsea I was assured that my fish would be fine. Also the Marbled Synodontis and Bumblebee Catfish that have been in there for over 6 years that have barbels that are 6+" and 3+" respectively give me good piece of mind that they are 100% compatible with the TMS.


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## OverStocked

Hoppy said:


> I think the major attribute of black diamond is.....it is black! And, of course, it is cheap. Other than that it is just a form of sand, but one with sharp edged particles, manufactured with no thought at all given to making it work well as a substrate. So, if metal particles have no adverse effect when it is used for grit blasting, it may contain metal particles. If scratching glass has no effect on its use for grit blasting, it may scratch glass.


The larger grit black diamond that I have(3 or 4 bags over the course of a year) are NOT sharp. They are squarish, but nothing more. 

The fine grain stuff is very sharp, but it is too fine to be useful anyways. 

I use it in tanks with bottom dwellers with no issue and I really think people who keep bringing it up need to let it go.... My gymnogeos also sift through this stuff all day long and no problems at all.


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## zenche

i got 2x50# bags this past weekend, 1.5 of which are now in my 75g. the 3 new cories I got went into the tank and seem to be pretty happy. the one weird thing i noticed were...these strands of something? they were like 1.5cm-ish or so. not a lot of it, but some. either way, 48 hrs later, the 6 koi angels and the 3 cories currently in the tank all seem to be pretty happy and active. 

i didn't rinse it before putting into the tank either and the water was pretty clear. for reference:


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## zenche

oh, what i will say was that upon initially filling the tank up, you'll get floater particles. with flow in your tank, what ends up happening is that these particles will cling to your glass. easy way to clean this up is to just drain out an inch of water, grab a paper towel and wipe off the particles which should mostly stick to the glass at the original waterline. refill and then good to go.


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## wkndracer

Hoppy said:


> I think the major attribute of black diamond is.....it is black! And, of course, it is cheap. Other than that it is just a form of sand, but one with sharp edged particles, manufactured with no thought at all given to making it work well as a substrate. So, if metal particles have no adverse effect when it is used for grit blasting, it may contain metal particles. If scratching glass has no effect on its use for grit blasting, it may scratch glass.


All true. Guess we forgot about this thread already.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/substrate/149224-black-beauty-growing-plants.html#post1528378










it's the finer sand frag size too

This is without question a never say never, never say always hobby LOL


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## xxbenjamminxx

I for one am still loving it. Nice plant growth, and fish, snails, and shrimp all are thriving in my tanks with this. Snails are almost doing a little too good!


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## Daximus

Cut Hoppy some slack people, he isn't saying anything false per se. :biggrin:

I am using 20/40 grit Black Diamond. It's awesome and my Corys are doing great. Mine was not sharp, at all, and plants take to it like gangbusters. I will use it for everything provided I want black sand. 

*That said, and to Hoppy's point*...it is an industrial product not intended for fishy tanks. You could get a bad batch, you could possible get some contamination, one batch could be sharper than another. You have to use your best judgement. It is, by definition, an abrasive material. 

It CAN scratch glass if your not careful. You would have to sit there and rub on it, but it could happen if some got smashed up against the tank behind a log or something that you were moving around forcefully. 

You are responsible for your fishy tank. If you get a batch that feels too sharp it's your fault if you use it. 

I love the stuff!


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## wkndracer

Daximus said:


> Cut Hoppy some slack people, he isn't saying anything false per se. :biggrin:


Hoppy has no problem stepping up if he feels tapped on so no worries about that.

The tread I linked was the exact same topic in Sept. and Hoppy made the closing post. :smile:


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## Daximus

wkndracer said:


> Hoppy has no problem stepping up he he feels tapped on so no worries about that.
> 
> The tread I linked was the exact same topic in Sept. and Hoppy made the closing post. :smile:


Ok, lol!

I just thought it was funny, he basically said (paraphrasing) "use caution" but seemed like everyone heard "this stuff will kill your fish!" Hahaha :hihi:


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## NWA-Planted

Geez and all I wanted to say is it was working good for me haha. Now to hoppys point, the small grit can have some sharp pieces. I had a friend help me move the tank into place and get things started and he ended up with a little sliver stuck in his finger (whined like a little girl haha) now, to date, I have reached in and stirred the grit. No issues and so far none of the bottom feeders have had any issues.

I feel like I need a disclaimer, but the statement is in no way saying use or dont use black diamond blasting media as a substrate! haha


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## Hoppy

I'm wounded!

Black Diamond, or Black Beauty, is advertised as having sharp particles. For grit blasting that is an attribute, not a disadvantage. I have no idea what they mean by "sharp" - it could mean angular as opposed to rounded particles. I conceded some time ago that too many people keep corys with that as a substrate with no problems, for it to be reasonable to think that it will harm your corys. Still, the stuff isn't made to be used in an aquarium, just as kitty litter isn't made to be used in an aquarium, and Soilmaster wasn't made to be used in an aquarium, and pool filter sand isn't made to be used in an aquarium. When I used Black Diamond/Beauty I used one bag, which may have been the fine "sand" type. I haven't seen the coarse grade, as far as I know.

I like the appearance so much that I expect to use it for my next tank build.


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## m00se

Forgive me for saying so, but the Black Diamond 20/40 I have feels like silk in my hands. I'm in my tank almost daily, and it's not nearly as gritty as a similar size silica sand, IMO. I realize what this stuff is and that there has to be variations in batches. On the other hand, they manufacture railroad cars full of this stuff at a time, and I think they've got the drill down pretty well at this point. When I first poured it out of the bag I noticed several tiny....shards for want of a better word. They were a deep red/brown color and looked like glass, and they broke into tiny pieces when I pinched them. Maybe that's what got your friend in the finger? I don't know - I've had my corys and lots of MTS for over a month now and they seem to love it. I'm happy with it too. :thumbsup:


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## m00se

I also grabbed a 4.5 lb jar of Osmocote PLUS and some 00 gel caps off of Ebay and now I have about 400 years worth of root fertilizer. The hardest part of that exercise was finding the Osmocote. Apparently they like to sell it in 50 lb bags nowadays.

An amazon sword that I thought I killed with H2O2 got a cap under it and within a week had healthy 5" leaves bursting out of it. Now if you had asked me if that was possible a month ago I would have just smirked at you.


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## AnniePN

Northern Tool Supply ships it for 8 plus 30 shipping, but it is the 30/60 grit...is that too fine??


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## sublimescorpio

....I just did the switch from (tomato) red gravel to black beauty (medium)--didn't rinse--I LOVE it! It is lovely and smooth and looks toooo nice! You can rub it between your fingers no prob, not sharp at all!..and cheap....Might switch my other tank too..

Annie, I think its 20/40 for black diamond..It is the largest size..


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## Monster Fish

sublimescorpio said:


> ....I just did the switch from (tomato) red gravel to black beauty (medium)--didn't rinse--I LOVE it! It is lovely and smooth and looks toooo nice! You can rub it between your fingers no prob, not sharp at all!..and cheap....Might switch my other tank too..
> 
> Annie, I think its 20/40 for black diamond..It is the largest size..


Did you go to the place in Brooklyn? If so, Ill probably give that place a visit after the holidays.


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## sublimescorpio

Yep, they only have 100lb bags for $17 something, they have a parking lot on the block (gate is yellow).....water is a bit cloudy, but is quickly clearing up with the filter on...xxben (not his full username, cannot remember the whole thing) said to turn the filter off while putting the sand in...

I am going to start a tank journal this week it looks so nice


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## Monster Fish

sublimescorpio said:


> Yep, they only have 100lb bags for $17 something, they have a parking lot on the block (gate is yellow).....water is a bit cloudy, but is quickly clearing up with the filter on...xxben (not his full username, cannot remember the whole thing) said to turn the filter off while putting the sand in...
> 
> I am going to start a tank journal this week it looks so nice


Oh cool. I guess Ill drive out from Queens since taking the subway while hauling a 100lb bag of sand is kinda silly.


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## sublimescorpio

hehe that is a good idea! Also they will put in right in the car for you....Just a note, encase you get a different guy, he suggestion to be careful picking up the bag as they rip if you pull it the wrong way...Since they are made of paper and well 100lb is heavy, I figured better safe than sorry, so I put the bag in a garage bag before taking it out of the car..


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## Monster Fish

Oh I could carry 100lbs just fine. And good idea on the garbage bag. I wouldn't want to carry it and have it rip open all over my car's trunk.


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## frrok

Haven't picked mine up yet. I don't really need it yet. But I'm glad is the good version of black beauty! With no nasties. Lol.


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## Lesley

From what I've read & all the info I've gathered, it's the 20/40. That's what I bought.


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## AnniePN

We have available a blasting sand called Black Magic, it is made in 20/40 but it is not sold anywhere in that size... the only size I can find in Oregon is called 16/40, I would think it is pretty close to the same grit size though...I hope.


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## frenchymasters

AnniePN said:


> We have available a blasting sand called Black Magic, it is made in 20/40 but it is not sold anywhere in that size... the only size I can find in Oregon is called 16/40, I would think it is pretty close to the same grit size though...I hope.


 
thats pretty close the size anyway....you will be fine with that


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## old-newbie

lol new to this forum and going to set up a 90 gl like the miracle-grow with black diamond cap so i started looking around for black diamond sand and found out its made in woodbury mn 5 miles from where i live.


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## Daximus

old-newbie said:


> lol new to this forum and going to set up a 90 gl like the miracle-grow with black diamond cap so i started looking around for black diamond sand and found out its made in woodbury mn 5 miles from where i live.



That exactly what I have setup. You will love it. :biggrin:


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## m00se

AnniePN said:


> We have available a blasting sand called Black Magic, it is made in 20/40 but it is not sold anywhere in that size... the only size I can find in Oregon is called 16/40, I would think it is pretty close to the same grit size though...I hope.



Grainger Industrial Supply
11767 SE Highway 212, Clackamas, OR (503) 722-1227

They may have to order it for you but they do carry it. Good luck!


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## AnniePN

I finally have some black blasting grit, black magic in 20-40 grit. It looks great and I hope will be as good as it looks  Nilocg led me to it up in Portland. Thanks!


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## Lesley

Let us know when you use it........ Are you planning to wash it? Package states you don't have to that it's already washed. Let us know. Thanks & Good luck.


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## m00se

I used 160 lbs of it and I never washed it. I think it would be a waste of time. After the initial "grey water" during filling, it settles right down.


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## AnniePN

I did put it in my tank last night, I had miracle gro already in there soaking in a bit of water and I capped it last night with the blasting grit, no rinsing at all and the water was crystal clear. I can't get my driftwood to sink though, so it is sitting with rocks on top of it, lol.


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## asifgy

Will pick up mine from Brooklyn soon, I might need 200lbs for my 120 g.


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## frrok

I picked up some black beauty from sublimescorpio, we did a trade with some snails and plants and she let me have the remainder of 100lb bag. Thanks for that!  anyway, black beauty or coal slag is very soft to the touch. I believe we have the 20/40 or medium grit. It does of some brownish particles and some straight pin like pieces but they are not sharp at all and you cant really notice them. They break in two very easily as well. I decided to rinse it a bunch as sublime told me it was very oily and clouded her water. So undid that and am drying it out now. This stuff looks sweet. It's dark and the particle size looks good to use with dirt. Although I probably won't use a really thick cap. 1 inch or so. I'm actually thinking of using some left over Eco-complete and place it on the bottom with dirt mixed in. Kind of like power sand. To promote oxygen flow. See how it works. Anyway. I'll lost a pic once I have the black beauty set up in my tank.


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## thebettashop

I must be blind, but didnt see any recommendations for Mineralized Soil Substrate before capping off with the Black Diamond! Any recommendations anyone? Should I just use basic Top Soil?


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## Porkchop

thebettashop said:


> I must be blind, but didnt see any recommendations for Mineralized Soil Substrate before capping off with the Black Diamond! Any recommendations anyone? Should I just use basic Top Soil?



That's what I want to know, do you need to use this for a cap only or can you just use this stuff straight and use root tabs? What would be best? I've been waiting for a fairly cheap and black substrate for my 75.


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## Daximus

thebettashop said:


> I must be blind, but didnt see any recommendations for Mineralized Soil Substrate before capping off with the Black Diamond! Any recommendations anyone? Should I just use basic Top Soil?





Porkchop said:


> That's what I want to know, do you need to use this for a cap only or can you just use this stuff straight and use root tabs? What would be best? I've been waiting for a fairly cheap and black substrate for my 75.


Dirt is dirt...mineralized or not. I don't understand why anyone would go to all the work of mineralizing, but to each his own. Yes, it would work great on MTS. You could also use black diamond with root tabs alone if you want to go that route. 

Black diamond can be treated like any other manor of sand. Pool sand, play sand, sand sand, really small rocks...etc. It's sandy, it's cheap, it's black, it's awesome. 

I personally use it as a cap for straight Miracle Grow Organic dirt...but I wouldn't hesitate to use it with MTS, or alone with root tabs. roud:


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## MlDukes

A few years ago I tested this out in a 10g before going gung ho on my 55g. Glad I did.

What i found at my local farm and home supply store was simply labeled coal slag. My only choice was 12-40 grit. Slightly larger than 20/40. I did have to rinse mine alot, was pretty dusty. Like original poster, I had astonishing root growth and my plants did very well. Works great for planting as its very heavy and because of this its also easily vacuumed. Fish and shrimp didnt seem to mind it a bit. 

However.

It did leave tiny abrasions on my fingers when planting. What deemed it a failure in my book is when I got a piece caught in the magnet cleaner. Made several nice scratches before i noticed. This enlightened me to all the small scratches along the bottom where i had planted. 

Moral of the story: It is what it is. 

Sorry to be the naysayer, I see alot of people have had good luck with this stuff. Instead i postponed setting up my 55 and saved up for eco-complete. Good investment IMO. 

For some specifics on coal slags compounds I found this:

http://www.optaminerals.com/Abrasives/Blackblast-Coal-Slag.html


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## m00se

I appreciate your observations. However, I just spent 4 hours in my tank replanting and rearranging and I have no sign of that type of abrasion - not a one. I also have 5 corys that are happy as pigs in poop and I can see no sign of distress in my BN pleco or the 4 bolivian rams or the cherry barbs in there. I have 4 nerites, untold MTS, a few ramshorns, pond snails, etc. All thriving. Again, I have no doubt that your experience was different. Hoppy had a similar experience to you. We're using Black Diamond brand - maybe that's the difference. At the price of $8 for 50 lbs, maybe you could take a drive and pick some up to compare it. I'm as happy with it as my plants and animals appear to be.

Cheers


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## Porkchop

I had the Eco-Complete and I'm not going to knock it because it is good stuff. My complaint with it though was that it would settle out, which I know that is what it was suppose to do but then I'd have these huge pieces of rock everywhere. And some of that, the coloring looked to be coming off and after having it for about a year, I was somewhat disgusted with it. It looked really good to me when I first got it but at the price I paid for about 80lbs of it, there was no way I was going to keep buying it yearly to keep it looking nice, black and neat.

I think at 8 bucks a bag for 50lbs, shine yea... I'll take a chance with it. If it fades in a year like the Eco did then I'm only out less than 20 bucks for 100lbs. I tossed 80+ lbs of Eco out into the ditch a few months back, sold the entire tank. It also seemed to be a good place to get staghorn algae too.

I've got a 75 now and it's been sitting for awhile just waiting for a cheap substrate source to come along and I think I've found it. I'd prefer some type of first layer material that would be really good for plants and then cap it off with this stuff. But my concern there is replanting and the two material mixing and it looking all crappy. So I might just try this stuff alone and use root tabs or whatever.


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## Rev_jim_jones

Black Beauty has all kinds of things in it according to the MSDS (Black Beauty is listed as Coal and Boiler Slag)

Component (WT%) 
Silicon Dioxide [SiO2] 41-53% 
Silicon Dioxide [SiO2 Crystalline "Free Silica"]
Quartz <0.1% 
Aluminum Oxide [Al2O3] 17-25% 
Calcium Oxide [CaO] 3-15% 
Magnesium Oxide [MgO] 0-4% )
Iron Oxide [FeO] 7-31% 
Potassium Oxide [K2O] 0-3% 
Titanium Dioxide [TiO2] 0-2% 

Black Diamond avoids this by Listing everything as (Listed as Coal Slag only)

Coal slag 68476-96-0 99+ % 
Crystalline silica 
(quartz) AVG 1% over the last 5 years (range from 0.4% to 1.6%)


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## Porkchop

So is all that bad? It seems a lot of people are using it and their plants seem to be fine and their fish as well. I wanna know before I put it into my tank as I intend to keep fish as well as plants.


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## m00se

If you google/search-here/other forums you will find 10,000 (exaggeration!) people say they are glad they chose it. What more you need other than that, I can't know. This is the Black Diamond stuff - I don't know about the Black Beauty...


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## NWA-Planted

The abrasiveness of it on glass is not suprising it is a blasting grit media, however if sand gets caught in a magnet scrubber it would scratch the glass too.

Also yes coal slag, but really the stuff should be about as nuetral as you can get its been fired over and over and over. Who knows.

Just speaking with my expierence with it thus far, I have no had any issues with it, my water quality has not suffered, nor have any of my fish. I do need to invest in some root tabs though, however, the plants have no issues rooting through it!


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## jersysman

I loved this thread and have found that I have a Tractor Supply store about 10 miles away. I'll be getting lots of this stuff for a substrate for my tanks. Also, as mentioned earlier in the thread, silica also scratches glass, yet this has been used as a substrate for years.


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## aaronbrown

since i found black diamond 2 years ago its all ill use for a fw tank with root tabs my plants grew so well they grew up over the canopy on my 75g tank i also had a horsehead loach that loved to live in the substrate when i finnaly took it down my amazon sword had a root ball the size of a softball and roots streched out halfway across my tank as far as scratches go i havent found any at least no noticabe ones any way now my 75 is a reef tank begging to be a planted tank again


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## Porkchop

aaronbrown said:


> since i found black diamond 2 years ago its all ill use for a fw tank with root tabs my plants grew so well they grew up over the canopy on my 75g tank i also had a horsehead loach that loved to live in the substrate when i finnaly took it down my amazon sword had a root ball the size of a softball and roots streched out halfway across my tank as far as scratches go i havent found any at least no noticabe ones any way now my 75 is a reef tank begging to be a planted tank again


Well someone stated that roots will grow hunting food, which I know that and I agree with that. And you saying they grew halfway the length of your tank is basically saying they grew looking for food (nutrients). You said you used root tabs, and in my opinion that would be the food they're hunting and that should technically blow that theory out of the water (no pun intended) about the roots hunting food. I had a 40 breeder set up as a planted tank and I had about 80 or lbs of Eco-Complete in that tank. I also had swords that had long lengths of roots... and Eco is suppose to be technically better than this Black Diamond far as plant growth is concerned. Yet from my own personal experience, it sounds like root growth is the same with both products.

For me, I'm gonna try this product as well. I like black substrate, sand or sand-like in particular. It's cheap compared to buying to Eco and while I've not read about it losing its color like Eco did for me, if it does after a year or so, it's cheap enough that you could just dump it all out and start over. I dumped out that 80+ lbs of Eco into a ditch behind my house, that was well over $100 bucks just thrown away basically. For $20 bucks, I can buy 100 lbs of this stuff and not really be out anything if it doesn't work for me or it loses its color or whatever.

I plan to inject CO2 on my 75 that I have now when it's all set up. I also plan to dose ferts. And root tabs won't be a problem either, if needed. So in my unlimited experience and novice opinion, I'll be supplying basically the same stuff that it's in the Eco-Complete at a fraction of the cost. Plus, I won't have those huge chunks of crappy looking rocks like I did with Eco. And Eco scratched my glass too... anything that's hard and rubs against glass can scratch it. Eco has small, sand-like particles in it also and those too can get stuck between a magnet and the glass and scratch it. So what's the difference?


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## Hoppy

Aquatic plant roots are multipurpose "devices". They anchor a plant in position, so it doesn't get swept away by currents. They provide backup nutrients for aquatic plants when the water level drops to zero during dry seasons. And, they provide a secondary source of nutrients to the plant leaves. Aquatic plants with big vigorous root systems tend to be those that listened to their ancestors stories about the horrible times when the water went away. (Or something like that.)


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## aaronbrown

black diamond will not lose color even being exposed to direct sun and extreme minnesota weather still got a bucket sitting outside waiting to be used again it even works great in a saltwater tank as far as algae i never really had much algae grow on the glass even with over 154 watts of lighting and no water changes or vacuming detrius


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## pastert33

I know this is an old thread but thought I'd propose my question here. The supply store that has black diamond sand around me only has 30-60 grit. Is this ok to use?


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## roadmaster

pastert33 said:


> I know this is an old thread but thought I'd propose my question here. The supply store that has black diamond sand around me only has 30-60 grit. Is this ok to use?


 
Is smaller grain but should work.
I use the 20/40 grit but bought some more the other day and it was 30/60.
They were out of the 20/40.
Some say the smaller grain size might make it more difficult to keep delicate stem plant's rooted, but other's say they have no problem's .
I'm gonna give it a go.


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## andyl9063

i'll make a comment on this. I use this 3 years ago. awesome and very cheap.
None of my fish had any problems with it.

Takes a long time to wash all the dust out.....


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## samjpikey

Anyone know of a uk supplier ???


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