# REDOING TANK: Black Diamond with or without dirt?



## klibs (May 1, 2014)

I am going to redo my 75 gallon pretty soon. Mainly because I do not like eco complete and I have run into some algae issues that are now unmanageable upon returning from vacation.

Definitely going to use black diamond blasting grit. I am on the fence on whether I want to put dirt in the tank again or just go with straight sand and use root tabs.

If I do use dirt I will be using MGOCPM. I will not be mineralizing it - my plan is to sift a few bags for only the really fine dirt and soak it then dump 1/2" layer in the tank.

Tank will have BML Dutch XB so I can go anywhere from low/med to ultra high light. I use pressurized CO2 and I dose EI dry ferts.

Goals:
Carpet of DHG Belem
Tons of stems like rotala / ludwigia / limnophila
Blyxa Japonica in midground (should be fine either way)

Thoughts?


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## natebuchholz (Sep 28, 2013)

Sounds like you are on your way to a successful setup. My vote, in regards to the substrate is to use the blasting grit. You will not have to worry about disturbing the soil when replanting.


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## digital_gods (Oct 7, 2010)

Root tabs with iron is all you need.


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## digital_gods (Oct 7, 2010)

Eco complete is from Caribsea is just iron rich clay. You would get the same from cheap kitty litter and rusty nails.


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## Verivus (Jan 6, 2015)

I would just use blasting sand, no soil.


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Every tank Ive ever posted on this board is 100% BDbs w/Osmocote+. I like to move things around too much, and have too many plants that require a regular prune or replant....to to even consider using dirt.


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## quiquik (Dec 13, 2013)

I'm about to redo my 50 gal with black blasting sand and osmocote + with pressurized co2..... can't wait ,,,, deciding on plants now. Have also used dirt in the past.


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## Freemananana (Jan 2, 2015)

I vote blasting sand and root tabs because that is what I am using with a fair amount of success. Dirt is a pain in my opinion. Changing slopes is more complicated, dropping your siphon makes a mess, nutrients run out anyway, etc.


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## aquarium hippy (Feb 7, 2013)

I use bdbs with gro soil tabs with great success. I considered dirt also when setting up but I am glad I didn't.


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## FewestKitten896 (Dec 13, 2013)

If you are curious I ran across this when I was seeing what coal slag as made of. This is roughly the composition of black diamond blasting media (coal slag). I found another table a while back that explained that the composition can change depending on the location.

SiO2 (Silicon Dioxide, Total) ~46.5%
Al2O2 (Aluminum Oxide) ~22.5%
Fe2O3 (Iron Oxide) ~19.0%
CaO (Calcium Oxide) ~5.5%
MgO (Magnesium Oxide) ~1.0%
TiO2 (Titanium Oxide) ~1.0%
SiO2 (Crystalline Silica) <0.1%


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

Dirted all the way for me.
Plant's been growin in dirt since ???
Been using black diamond for a few year's now 20/40 grit holds plant's better than 30/60 (too fine).


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## gmb225 (Mar 11, 2015)

I am in the process of changing my fish only 55g to live plants. was gonna buy eco complete cause it seems to be the only option out there. Is this blasting sand iron rich? Will sand work to hold plants down good? Where do u buy this stuff?


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## aquarium hippy (Feb 7, 2013)

I buy it here http://goo.gl/wB2W9i and have been using it for a couple years now with good success. If you look a couple posts up there is a break down of what its made up of.


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## rick dale (Feb 26, 2014)

*silicon dioxide*



FewestKitten896 said:


> If you are curious I ran across this when I was seeing what coal slag as made of. This is roughly the composition of black diamond blasting media (coal slag). I found another table a while back that explained that the composition can change depending on the location.
> 
> SiO2 (Silicon Dioxide, Total) ~46.5%
> Al2O2 (Aluminum Oxide) ~22.5%
> ...


Does the silicon dioxide have anything to do with the silicates that cause diatoms in our tanks ? Will bdbs release silicates ?


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## FewestKitten896 (Dec 13, 2013)

rick dale said:


> Does the silicon dioxide have anything to do with the silicates that cause diatoms in our tanks ? Will bdbs release silicates ?


This is not the from Black Diamond but another company but I imagine they are most likely very similar in composition. I am not a chemist by any means but I highly doubt it will release enough silicates to do anything. Aquarium glass is made from silicates also so I interpreted it that coal slag would have the same silicate properties as glass. A lot of people have been using it for quite a few years with little to no problems.

On the same page where I got the composition it did state this:
*Solubility:* Insoluble


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## klibs (May 1, 2014)

gmb225 said:


> I am in the process of changing my fish only 55g to live plants. was gonna buy eco complete cause it seems to be the only option out there. Is this blasting sand iron rich? Will sand work to hold plants down good? Where do u buy this stuff?


Nope. Eco complete is way over-rated. IMO it is awful. It's very light, grains are inconsistent size, etc... Eventually you will end up with large chunks the size of gravel on top of a bed of the finer stuff. IMO it is very bad to use for carpeting plants (big reason of why I'm switching).

I bought my black diamond at tractor supply co as well. It was like $24 for 150 lbs. Just be aware that it comes in different grain sizes. I bought the 20/40 grain size.

Eco complete also does not 'provide' nutrients. It can hold nutrients better than sand (allegedly) but it will not provide nutrients itself.

IMO the sand will work 100x better to hold down plants. Eco complete is TERRIBLE at holding plants down (it's just so light). Black diamond is very heavy.


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## DayOlder (Jul 12, 2014)

klibs said:


> Eco complete is way over-rated. Eco complete is TERRIBLE at holding plants down (it's just so light).


+1 on both of those statements. I know eventually I'll switch to BD also but I keep putting it off mostly because I'm lazy.


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## klibs (May 1, 2014)

DayOlder said:


> +1 on both of those statements. I know eventually I'll switch to BD also but I keep putting it off mostly because I'm lazy.


Yeah re-doing this tank is going to suck. It's a 75 gallon. Should be worth it in the long run though.


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## DayOlder (Jul 12, 2014)

Klibs, My tank is mostly swords and the roots are very long. When you change your substrate are you going to prune the roots of your stem plants or are you going to try to lay them out and then cover them? I almost think when I finally do it I'll do it in four sections doing one per week for four weeks.


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## klibs (May 1, 2014)

DayOlder said:


> Klibs, My tank is mostly swords and the roots are very long. When you change your substrate are you going to prune the roots of your stem plants or are you going to try to lay them out and then cover them? I almost think when I finally do it I'll do it in four sections doing one per week for four weeks.


My stem plants don't have roots anymore. Another reason why I am going to change it. I think my substrate is toxic and is having negative effects on everything.

I don't have any heavy root-feeders. Mostly tall stems with a ton of blyxa. The blyxa is really the only thing holding it down at this point.


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## Bishop61 (Oct 18, 2014)

Recently broke down and redid my 90... Dirted w/ Black Blast Sand cap... couldn't be happier... cept for a diatom bloom and a few plants melting a bit :icon_frow


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## gmb225 (Mar 11, 2015)

so if i use this bd sand what should i use to feed the plants? i was planning on using only flouish excel. not planning on using dirt. should i use a root tab fert as well?


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

klibs said:


> Nope. Eco complete is way over-rated. IMO it is awful. It's very light, grains are inconsistent size, etc... Eventually you will end up with large chunks the size of gravel on top of a bed of the finer stuff. IMO it is very bad to use for carpeting plants (big reason of why I'm switching).
> 
> I bought my black diamond at tractor supply co as well. It was like $24 for 150 lbs. Just be aware that it comes in different grain sizes. I bought the 20/40 grain size.
> 
> ...


+1 all of that. Just wash, wash wash... I just set up a shrimp tank with left over from what I used on my large tank. It had been thoroughly washed, but I put it in a bucket and filled it and instant dark grey. Spent 15 minutes or so running water through it, and when I put it in the shrimp tank - perfectly clear. 

I do have one tank with ecco complete and one with sand. I'm having good luck in both. The sand is MUCH easier to plant and replant and move, and also MUCH easier to push root tabs (I use Osmecote+ gel caps) into, I have to do it with fingers in the ecco complete, kind of trench-and-bury, it doesn't "push" easily; with the sand I just use tongs. 

The one place that I find the sand not as good as the ecco complete is vacuuming. You have to be really careful, kink the hose, etc. or the sand all goes up the siphon; the ecco complete is just bigger-enough to not. I wish I could have found more coarse black diamond, but the only thing stocked is the medium and fine. But as the plants grow in, I do less and less vacuuming anyway, so no big deal.


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## DayOlder (Jul 12, 2014)

gmb225 said:


> so if i use this bd sand what should i use to feed the plants? i was planning on using only flouish excel. not planning on using dirt. should i use a root tab fert as well?


If you have plants that feed from the substrate, then yes you should use root tabs, if your plants feed from the water column then you should feed some sort of liquid regiment like IE. You can buy both off of TPT For Sale Thread. I buy mine from nilocg.


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## klibs (May 1, 2014)

DayOlder said:


> If you have plants that feed from the substrate, then yes you should use root tabs, if your plants feed from the water column then you should feed some sort of liquid regiment like IE. You can buy both off of TPT For Sale Thread. I buy mine from nilocg.


+1
You will want some root tabs for heavy root feeders as well dose dry or liquid ferts (both macro NPK and micro elements).
Excel alone doesn't really do anything.


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## gmb225 (Mar 11, 2015)

i dont know. one minute im ready to buy flourite black sand then the next minute just buy the bd sand and use root tabs! most of the plants ill have will be amazon sords.


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

gmb225 said:


> i dont know. one minute im ready to buy flourite black sand then the next minute just buy the bd sand and use root tabs! most of the plants ill have will be amazon sords.


Even if you believe there are sufficient and available nutrients in flourite, they don't last forever and you need root tabs regardless.


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## DayOlder (Jul 12, 2014)

Linwood said:


> Even if you believe there are sufficient and available nutrients in flourite, they don't last forever and you need root tabs regardless.


+1 I have at least four different types of swords and they are all root tab hogs. You can almost tell immediately when they run out because their growth will stop, which isn't always a bad thing. If I want mine to keep them growing I feed them new root tabs about every three months and this is in addition to daily IE in my tanks.


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## gmb225 (Mar 11, 2015)

DayOlder said:


> +1 I have at least four different types of swords and they are all root tab hogs. You can almost tell immediately when they run out because their growth will stop, which isn't always a bad thing. If I want mine to keep them growing I feed them new root tabs about every three months and this is in addition to daily IE in my tanks.



What is IE? And what root tabs do u recommend?


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## Linwood (Jun 19, 2014)

gmb225 said:


> What is IE? And what root tabs do u recommend?


Seachem make good root tabs, though they are pricey. A lot of people make their own, buy '0' or '00' size gel caps empty, fill with Osmecote Plus.


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## doughnut (Jul 22, 2010)

gmb225 said:


> i dont know. one minute im ready to buy flourite black sand then the next minute just buy the bd sand and use root tabs! most of the plants ill have will be amazon sords.


Do your wallet a favor and go with the blasting sand. I used 2 50lb bags for my 55g and really only should have used 1.5 bags. At 9 bucks a bag from tractor supply company it was a no brainer for me. Holds plants down easily. Like everyone else said already, you'll eventually have to use ferts with anything you choose. The blasting sand and root tabs should grow swords easily.


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## Turningdoc (Apr 2, 2014)

Just started 40g breeder w Black Diamond. It is awesome, but wash it many times first as comes very dirty


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## PickieBee (Oct 29, 2014)

How deep is ideal with blasting sand?


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## klibs (May 1, 2014)

PickieBee said:


> How deep is ideal with blasting sand?


Yo no offense people but please do not hijack my thread with general questions about black diamond and/or planted tanks in general.

Also I am planning on going 2-3" deep


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