# Sulawesi Shrimp keepers. A few questions for.



## randyl (Feb 1, 2012)

I don't have much experience but have kept them for a few months, they breed for me but not massively like others, so don't just take my word ;-)

1. Cardinal
2. I use Toronto's tap water which started as TDS 175, PH7.8, GH8,KH5, then with the crushed coral and dead coral rocks, TDS is not over 300, didn't test anything else afterward.
3. Rabbit snail

Pic 1: Cardinals with their tank mate rabbit snail (also from Sulawesi)


Pic 2: I just realized I don't have a full shot of the tank, this one is as close as I have. It's a Fluval Flora with about 1/3" of crush coral and like 5 pieces of dead coral rock.


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## gbhil (Oct 28, 2005)

/sub

Have a tank cycling here myself with crushed coral, some local limestone and Java moss.


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## ChadRamsey (Nov 3, 2011)

randyl said:


> I don't have much experience but have kept them for a few months, they breed for me but not massively like others, so don't just take my word ;-)
> 
> 1. Cardinal
> 2. I use Toronto's tap water which started as TDS 175, PH7.8, GH8,KH5, then with the crushed coral and dead coral rocks, TDS is not over 300, didn't test anything else afterward.
> ...


thanks for the input.


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## ChadRamsey (Nov 3, 2011)

gbhil said:


> /sub
> 
> Have a tank cycling here myself with crushed coral, some local limestone and Java moss.



where do you plan to get your shrimp?


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## gbhil (Oct 28, 2005)

ChadRamsey said:


> where do you plan to get your shrimp?


Good question 

Hopefully, one of the reputable online breeders will have some next month when I'm ready. If not, I'm prepared to pay the crazy price the seller on Aquabid is asking. He always has some for sale.


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

make sure to check the feedback and dont be afraid to ask questions from people he has sold to. also state breed shrimp are going to be high because they are breeding in a hobby tank. most online sellers get wild collected shrimp and that is why they tend to be a bit cheaper. down side is you tend to loose a lot of them once you get them in your tanks as they adjust. also most cardinal shrimp will only eat bio film so you need a ton of it and algae built up in your tank. if you are buying from some one here in the state that is breeding them in their home tank there is a better chance of survival once you get them and a good chance they will take man made foods also. sorry not first hand information just done a fair bit of reading lexinverts and dk both have them so maybe they will chime in and give more info


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## randyl (Feb 1, 2012)

For Sulawesi, I suggest to find local breeders/sellers. They don't do well in shipping, if you have to ship, a heat pack is necessary.

I've lost as little as 5%, and as much as 80% in a shipment with less than 24 hours travel time in shipping. The main difference is that 5% loss shipment came with some fish and had heat packs in the box.

Maybe others have different experience, but now I have enough for breeding, I hope I don't have to order and have them shipped again.


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## orhunterfisher (Jun 30, 2008)

I have been breeding Sulawesi for a couple of years now. Stable water conditions are paramount for Sulawesi. Recently I lost two colonies due to heater malfunction during a bad cold snap but I got a few cardinals from Lex and my colony is back up and running. Key is to keep the water warm, well filtered, keep pH and minerals consistent and they do their own thing. I will disagree with food statement. This is absolutely untrue. They take commercial foods as much as any other shrimp...in fact mine prefer commercial foods over say blanched spinach. The deal with cardinals is that are very shy. It takes them a while to acclimate to their new environment and usually do their traveling at night. They must feel very comfortable in their new tank to venture during the day or have the colony grow large enough that the pack/flock/herd mentality kicks in and they are then all out in the open. Just my exp


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## bostoneric (Sep 7, 2011)

Sean.
Thanks for the helpful info! I love these shrimp. there are so many cool colors and unique body shapes. someday I'll setup myself one of these tanks. they are perfect for socal water/temps!

so beautiful!


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## gbhil (Oct 28, 2005)

Not to hijack, but if the stars line up correctly, I'm hoping to find Harlequins, not Cardinals.

I'm assuming everything said about Cardinals goes for Harlequins, just with double the pain because they are more fragile?

I figure a thread dedicated to Sulawesi invert keepers is the best place to ask


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## ChadRamsey (Nov 3, 2011)

orhunterfisher said:


> I have been breeding Sulawesi for a couple of years now. Stable water conditions are paramount for Sulawesi. Recently I lost two colonies due to heater malfunction during a bad cold snap but I got a few cardinals from Lex and my colony is back up and running. Key is to keep the water warm, well filtered, keep pH and minerals consistent and they do their own thing. I will disagree with food statement. This is absolutely untrue. They take commercial foods as much as any other shrimp...in fact mine prefer commercial foods over say blanched spinach. The deal with cardinals is that are very shy. It takes them a while to acclimate to their new environment and usually do their traveling at night. They must feel very comfortable in their new tank to venture during the day or have the colony grow large enough that the pack/flock/herd mentality kicks in and they are then all out in the open. Just my exp



great info. thanks. 

pm incoming btw.



gbhil said:


> Not to hijack, but if the stars line up correctly, I'm hoping to find Harlequins, not Cardinals.
> 
> I'm assuming everything said about Cardinals goes for Harlequins, just with double the pain because they are more fragile?
> 
> I figure a thread dedicated to Sulawesi invert keepers is the best place to ask


Your not "highjacking" the thread. As long as its about Sulawesi, this is the place for it.roud:


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

i thought i read in lex's shrimp thread he was finally getting his cardinals to take man made food. i could be wrong though.


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## orhunterfisher (Jun 30, 2008)

wicca27 said:


> i thought i read in lex's shrimp thread he was finally getting his cardinals to take man made food. i could be wrong though.


Lex's now take Hikari Shrimp Cuisine readily, not sure what else he has tried. Lets not forget I have been breeding Sulawesi for several years so some of what I say may come from past experience. The cardinals that I recently got from Lex are now readily accepting nearly all commercial food I throw in...Hikari Shrimp Cuisine, Hikari Crab Cuisine, Tetra color bits, and all the pollum foods I have tried (ie Shirakura, Borneo Wild Bebi, Mosura etc) There are several tricks to getting them to eat, especially when wild stock is obtained. My tanks are HEAVILY planted and H E A V I L Y biofilmed. If I have new Sulawesi from friends, not wild, then I place them in the tank and turn the lights off for a full day so they can explore the tank readily. I may be anthropomorphizing a little but I think cardinals are very shy. To the point where it can be detrimental. I let them get comfortable in the new tank for a whole day or two in the dark (just don't turn the light on) and then I don't feed them for several days...at all, nothing. When I see them starting to venture out of the rock crevices more frequently I then add some meaty commercial food ie Crab cuisine or shrimp cuisine etc I grind it up in my mortar and pestle and disperse. They slowly come out and find it. Once they are secure in the tank environment they will readily come out to see what the new food is. You may have to start flipping the lights on during the dark to see them at first but they will do it. Another thing is to look out for little poops on the areas where the commercial food falls to see if they have been out around it. Remember NOT to overfeed.


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## Lexinverts (Jan 17, 2012)

RO water with Salty Shrimp Sulawesi 8.5, GH 7/8, pH 8.5, TDS 180, temp 80F.
I use sand substrate, with algae-covered driftwood. Sponge filter and hang on back filter.

Cardinal shrimp are doing well under those conditions. I feed with Indian Almond leaves, Hikari Shrimp Cuisine, and Borneo Wild Bebi.

I've had other Cardinal strains that would not take any prepared food except the Hikari and Bebi. I haven't tried anything else with these guys.


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

good to know. thanks for chiming in. like i said i have not kept them just what i thought i read.


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## Loachutus (Aug 27, 2010)

Sean, are you using RO as well? If so, what are remineralizing with?

Lex, I've read in past threads that the Salty Shrimp 8.5 is hard to get to dissolve all the way and the their website recommends using CO2 over a few days. I think I remember reading somewhere that you, might have been someone else, were using either hot or warm water to help in dissolving? 

Randyl, anything else in there beside the rabbits?

Do you guys have Tylo's or other snails in with your Sulawesi shrimp?


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## Lexinverts (Jan 17, 2012)

Loachutus said:


> Lex, I've read in past threads that the Salty Shrimp 8.5 is hard to get to dissolve all the way and the their website recommends using CO2 over a few days. I think I remember reading somewhere that you, might have been someone else, were using either hot or warm water to help in dissolving?
> 
> Do you guys have Tylo's or other snails in with your Sulawesi shrimp?


Yes, 8.5 will not completely dissolve without CO2. I use about a triple dose of the stuff in order to get my GH up to 7-ish. Using hot water helps a little, but you still can't get a GH of 7 without going well above the recommended dose (unless you use CO2).

I keep a few small Tylos with my Sulawesi shrimp, but not too many, since they produce lots of ammonia if they die in the tank.


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## orhunterfisher (Jun 30, 2008)

+1 Lex

I use SS 8.5 and I now actually use a method that Lex taught me. I used to boil the water and SS 8.5 in a pyrex mixing bowl and then leave in the bucket for an hour or so then use...NOW I do the same thing but put it into a bucket with an airstone and let it bubble for a week or month depending on when I need it. Generally it dissolves quite well with some falling to the bottom of the bucket. My friends in Europe actually remove water and then add RO/DI water and add the SS DIRECTLT into the tank. This has me a little concerned so I have not actually tried this method.

Yes I do use RO/DI water and re-mineralize.


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## Loachutus (Aug 27, 2010)

Thanks for the mixing info, very helpful!

Lex, is that triple dose in a 5 gal bucket?

Either of you used the Salty Shrimp 7.5 with cardinals? Anyone else? If so, reason why you changed, besides the fact they went back and retested the waters?


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## orhunterfisher (Jun 30, 2008)

Loachutus said:


> Thanks for the mixing info, very helpful!
> 
> Lex, is that triple dose in a 5 gal bucket?
> 
> Either of you used the Salty Shrimp 7.5 with cardinals? Anyone else? If so, reason why you changed, besides the fact they went back and retested the waters?


I originally tried the SS 7.5 but found that the 8.5 was better for breeding as a result of a friends' recommendation.


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## takelow (Feb 26, 2014)

Hi,

I am french and breed a stock of Sulawesi shrimps since about 6 month.
My shrimps are quite frequently berried.

Actually, and as already mentioned in this topic, stability is a key word imho. I use a 30L Dennerle Nano tank with 100% RO, remineralised with PREIS discus salt and Seachem reef builder in order to obtain a water for changes at GH=2 and KH=2.
I use coral sand (approximately 4-5 Kg) and JBL Sansibar white as substrate in the tank , in order to stabilize the KH and pH.
For filtration and flow, the tank is equipped with the dennerle filter (Eckfilter with filter extension containing ceramics), an EDEN 501 external filter with ceramics, a 50W heater.
The hardscape is essentially composed with a lot of Okho stones and some driftwood. There is no plant but a little bit of java moss and a cladophora ball. The water is permanently oxygenated with an airpump.

I do frequent water changes (at least 30% WC per week, in two sessions), mostly because polution generated by Tylomelania snails in the tank (3 orange adults, 2 Young, and 2 juveniles), with the RO remineralized at GH=2 and KH=2. All my water change are made very slowly, drop by drop, during 3-4h.
I compensate evaporation with 100% RO without mineralisation with the same method: drop by drop.

I fed my shrimps one or two time a week, as well as the snails. I use a lot of different types of food for the shrimp (dennerle classic food and stickers, Ebi dama, Quadro 2....).

My water parameters are very stables :
NO3: 0
NO2: 0
GH:3
KH:2.5
pH=8
TDS= approx. 200 ppm

From my observations and readings, after stability, TDS seems very important. I try to fix it at 180-200 and i measured it 3 or 4 times a week. I change more water if i see an increase in the TDS value.

My shrimps seems happy and reproduce.
Hope this could help, but if you need more information, feel free to ask


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## ChadRamsey (Nov 3, 2011)

takelow said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am french and breed a stock of Sulawesi shrimps since about 6 month.
> My shrimps are quite frequently berried.
> ...


First, welcome takelow to TPT!

Secondly, thanks for all the GREAT info. I really appreciate it.

Any pictures of your tank?


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Question: If using crushed coral as substrate, doesn't the ph slowly rise above 8- or do water changes help keep it around 8?


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## samwoo2go (Apr 27, 2013)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> Question: If using crushed coral as substrate, doesn't the ph slowly rise above 8- or do water changes help keep it around 8?


I have the same question. Along with its effects on creeping KH/GH.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

That was the 2nd part of my question I was going to ask.


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## takelow (Feb 26, 2014)

I will post pictures of this tank as soon as possible (i am not at home right now).



Soothing Shrimp said:


> Question: If using crushed coral as substrate, doesn't the ph slowly rise above 8- or do water changes help keep it around 8?


No the pH is very stable at 8. From my observation, the coral sand induces a stabilty of the pH mainly by increasing the KH.
Actually, the coral sand as a substrate is the reason i don't use a water with the exact parameters of the tank during my water changes and why the changes should be done slowly with the drop-by-drop method.
The WC is at GH:2, KH:2 and pH:7-7.5. The tank is at GH:3 and KH:2.5, pH:8 before, during and just after each change. I think that the drop to drop method for WC allow the "new water" to be influenced by coral sand during the WC itself without any significant impact in the global parameter of the Tank. At least, this is my interpretation.

A point i didn't discuss already is the temp. of the tank. The water is at 28°C with virtually no variation. Surprisingly, it is not necessary to pre-heat the water used for the WC at the same T°, due to the drop-to-drop method, allowing to maintain a constant T° during the procedure.

Drop-to-drop is a key element in general for shrimp breeding IMHO. And it is related to stability.


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## randyl (Feb 1, 2012)

I use very little crush coral (3 handful for 7.9G Fluval Flora), RO remineralized with Salthy 7.5 AND aged in a bucket with a handful of crush coral until TDS/PH is very close to tank water. This way and very small % WC is my way to ensure a stable parameters for these. They are pickier about stability than any other shrimps I've had.


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