# llj's 8g nano, update 12/23/06



## lljdma06 (Oct 16, 2006)

I apologize for the long post.

I setup this 8g Finnex in July. It has 24W of Compact Fluorescent bulbs. At first I tried high light plants and used EI and injected like 54ppm of CO2, but I was plagued by greenwater and other types of algae, which was made worse by cabomba and myriophylum disintigrating in my tank. Towards the end, I managed to control the algae enough to make a pair of cherry barbs happy enough to have 34 fry. I've moved the happy family to a 36g medium-low light bowfront tank and the 8g nano sat in my bedroom dismantled and empty. I did some reading and decided to try this tank again.

8g "nano" planted: 15.5"x10"x11", 3WPG or 1.27Lumens/square cm, CO2 injection (22-35ppm), laterite with 1-3mm gravel and rootabs, ferilization to be determined, (Cryptocoryne wendtii red and green, Cryptocoryne willisii or parva, Cryptocoryne lutea and lucens, Hemianthus micranthemoides, Rotala rotundifolia, Ceratopteris thalictroides, Cryptocoryne wendtii v. Tropica, Egeria densa, Christmas moss, willow moss, anubia petiti nana, java fern) No livestock yet. 

I again made some poor plant choices. I tried Bacopa and H. zosterfolia, but both were disintigrating, yet my R. rotundifolia and everything else was doing great. I was also starting to get greenwater. I read some articles on nano lighting and basically threw away WPG. With the help of a few friends, I used Lumens/square cm to calculate how much light I had, and the result surprised me, though it confirmed what I suspected. I did not have enough light for the heavy CO2 and EI fertilisation method. My plants were just not growing fast enough. So I abandoned EI with this tank, lowered my CO2 a little bit, and concentrated on plants that grow well in lower light conditions. The tank is doing much better, though I am still guarded. I now alternate 1 and 2ml doses of Seachem Flourish everyday, and I'll see if that's enough. My rotala was pearling, Yesterday, and that's always nice.

Some photos for you.

Full tank shot









Pearling rotala.









Who knows? It may all go to pot tomorrow. :hihi: But right now, this very second, it doesn't look half bad. Any advice, criticism, complements, insults, are always welcome. Thank you for reading a long, long post. 

llj:icon_smil


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## Subotaj (Oct 16, 2006)

Well done! 
but where is the shrimps? 
please upload more photos.


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## CAMBYSES (Sep 22, 2006)

llj,
The tank looks great and the plants look healthy. I dont know if this is your first tank or not, but I hope it isnt cause it makes mine really look like crap  

the only thing I would do to the tank is raise the water level a bit so you dont have as much surface agitation.

keep up the good work, and keep us updated

Bob


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## observant_imp (Jun 30, 2004)

You're probably outgassing your CO2, you might have better luck with Excel (cost effective in such a small tank).

Edit: I read to hastily (I thought you were indicating you weren't happy with your results) and didn't look past the top of your tank before responding. What you're doing is working--the plants look great. You've got a nice mix going.


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## lljdma06 (Oct 16, 2006)

Thank you for all the complements. I'm glad you like what I've done so far.

Cambyses, this is not my first planted tank. This is my 5th setup total, but it is my first nano, which is a lot harder than my other tanks. 

Subotaj, no shrimps, infact, no livestock yet. I probably won't put shrimp in. I never really liked them much. I'm not sure what I'll put in. I'd like pygmy cories and a small shoaling fish with a few otos for algae work, but no shrimp.

Observant_imp, I wasn't happy with the tank's initial setup in July. I do believe I was putting too much CO2 and ferts in that tank. I was putting in 54ppm to keep algae at bay, but the algae kept coming because of the ammonia spike due to the plant decomposition. Again, it was all down to my poor plant choices, I picked plants that were too light-demanding. Now, I have about 22ppm of CO2 which is a bit more reasonable. I wonder what results I would get if I ditched the CO2 setup all together and just used Excel. I have like two large bottles of it. What dose would you recommend for my 8g?

Again, thanks for the replies. This is a very nice forum, I'm glad I stumbled into it. Thank goodness for Google. :icon_smil 

llj:icon_smil


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## CAMBYSES (Sep 22, 2006)

Knowing that its not your first makes me feel a bit better. I dont really consider my 10gal a nano and I am in the planning part of my 3gal nano set up. what have you found that is harder about the nanos?


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## observant_imp (Jun 30, 2004)

My little 8 hasn't been setup very long, so I'm still experimenting with the doses. I've been trying to use about 1/3 of a capful 3x per week. I'm not sure if I'm not using enough ferts yet or not enough excel. I'm currently debating cutting out one of my lights (2 18 watts) and using lower light plants--it doesn't take much growth with the stems before it needs a serious trim.


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## lljdma06 (Oct 16, 2006)

CAMBYSES said:


> Knowing that its not your first makes me feel a bit better. I dont really consider my 10gal a nano and I am in the planning part of my 3gal nano set up. what have you found that is harder about the nanos?


Stabilizing, stabilizing, stabilizing, Cambyses! My other tanks didn't need half as much work to get parameters right. Things can go wrong so quickly. If a plant doesn't do well, you need to get it out before in disintigrates. If you use too many ferts or not enough. Change happens quickly in a nano, you have to be on top of things. My 20g and 36g are much, much easier. 

You have an 8g too, Observant_imp, that's great! Is it a Finnex by any chance? That's the brand of my aquarium. I may try the Excel at the dose you recommend. How long have you had your tank up and running? If you have a journal thread, I'll have a look.

llj:icon_smil


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## turbowagon (Dec 30, 2005)

Your tank looks great!

I just ordered the same 8 gallon finnex tank off ebay today. I can't wait to set it up in my bedroom!


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## |GTO| (Oct 9, 2006)

where cna i get one of these rimless mini aquariums? ive been looking everywhere...

i want more of a cube style glass aquarium 6-8 gallons, but i cant find anyhting..

any help?

cheers,


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## Dave_Discus (Sep 10, 2006)

Beautiful tank. You should be proud.


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## turbowagon (Dec 30, 2005)

If you search Ebay's completed listings for "finnex aquarium" there's a seller who routinely sells 4 gallon and 8 gallon rimless setups for $45 and $60, respectively ($15/$20 for shipping). It includes the light fixture, CF bulb, and filter.

I contacted the seller and inquired about an 8 gallon Finnex setup, and she listed one the next day for me.  I then felt obligated to buy it. :icon_redf


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## turbowagon (Dec 30, 2005)

Here's a link to the 8 gallon:

eBay: Finnex 8 Gallon Complete Glass Aquarium (item 190045334463 end time Oct-26-06 08:08:56 PDT)

and the 4 gallon:

eBay: Finnex 4 Gallon Complete Glass Aquarium (item 190040842807 end time Oct-19-06 21:35:42 PDT)


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## lljdma06 (Oct 16, 2006)

:icon_lol: I take it everybody likes the tank? I'm pleased with the Finnex 8g. It was a great find and a good deal. My only concern is finding a replacement bulb, but if the seller lists frequently on Ebay, I think ordering a bulb shouldn't pose a problem. 

I got rid of my CO2 on Monday, and am now only dosing Excel and Flourish. The water is doing quite well. The rotala is holding up better than expected and the crypts are starting to look really good. If the rotala continues to hold up, I may stop dosing Excel all together. Right now, I'm trying smaller water changes 2x a week. The pH is a little higher than I'm used to, 7.2, but I plan on housing these little dwarf platys I keep seeing at PetSmart. Most likely a female community. Once they finish dropping fry, it'll be fine. I have plenty of room for fry in other tanks. Since platys also produce quite a bit of poop, I may even reduce the Flourish. There's really nothing to report. The growth is slow and the tank looks pretty much the same. 

I'd love to setup a 2.5g pretty soon. A low-tech, no CO2 setup for some shrimp or a betta. Take care, and thanks for the compliments and interest in my tank. It's all appreciated. 

llj:icon_lol:


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## lljdma06 (Oct 16, 2006)

I stopped dosing excel that last weekend and now this tank has no CO2 injection and only a small dose of Flourish 2x a week. I do, however, change the water 2x a week. I think it's better considering the bioload I have, and any resulting fry will appreciate the cleaner water. 

The plants are doing pretty well. I had to trim the moss on Friday, and move some Egeria to my 2.5g pico. 

I added livestock on the 27th of October. I now have 5 dwarf sunburst platies, 4 females, one male. Fry should start coming in in about a month. The females are only in the early stages of pregnancy. I have room in other tanks for fry. 

There is some diatom growth on the glass, but nothing really serious and the platies seem to enjoy eating it.










It's nice to sit back and let this tank alone. I think it is a very bright little tank, and the platies complement it very well. The only words I can think of to describe it are "perky" and "cheerful". 

As always, comments, criticisms are welcome.

llj:icon_smil


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## aquaphish (Dec 20, 2002)

You have done a great job on that 8 gal.!!!

I also have an 8 gal that looks very similar to our with the exception of the rimless top. The base frame is exactly the same as well as the light canopy. But my canopy had a square 4 pin 36w 50/50 blue/5000k. Mine had a sticker from Jalli. But everything is basically the same.

I was having some algae problems and right away thinking it was the lighting I replaced it with a 2X13w from AH Supply. It fit right into the gutted out canopy. Relector needed a slight tweeking to fit but very little. But I still realized the 26w was really not enough. So I am in the process of adding another 2X13 which will be a total of 52w. Of course all of this will be going into an new DIY canopy. I will most likely add a 3 in. fan into the system too.

But looking at your tank maybe I need to play around with the ferts more before changing the lights.


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## lljdma06 (Oct 16, 2006)

I had algae problems with this tank when I first set it up. Constant greenwater. My mistake was treating it like a high-tech tank when it really wasn't. I did EI fertilisation and injected a lot of CO2 when the plants just didn't have enough light. You have chosen to upgrade your lighting, which along with fertilisers and adaquate CO2 may help your situation and give you more planting options. I opted not to upgrade my lighting and run it as a low-light aquarium, which limits my plant choices. One method is not better than the other, just different. 

26W over 8g isn't very strong light, but many plants will grow well without the addition of CO2 and extra ferts. Water sprite, cryptocorynes, mosses, Rotala rotundifolia, HM, and anubias all grow very well in my tank. 

llj


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## turbowagon (Dec 30, 2005)

Tank looks great, LL Cool J. 

I'm keeping a close watch, since I'm about to set up the exact same tank once I get the substrate in the mail. 24W should be plenty for growing all but the most light-demanding species. And I almost think it's too much lighting without CO2 addition. Why exactly did you stop the Excel dosing? Just to make it less maintenance? Keep us updated over the next few weeks if the plant growth remains healthy or if you have any algae issues.

Also, how long do you keep the lights on?

- Joe


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## lljdma06 (Oct 16, 2006)

Thanks Turbowagon,

I actually don't have that much light. I have pretty much thrown WPG out the window with this tank. I calculated the lumens output at the surface and it comes out to about 1.27lumens/cm squared, which actually qualifies as a low to medium-low light tank. Some websites say low-light, others say moderate. I personally think it's a medium-low light tank. I did have CO2, but I was producing way too much more than the plants could consume. 

I haven't had an algae problem since I've been off the CO2. I some diatoms now, but that's on the back glass, and the platies eat it. I'll probably end up with an oto or two for this tank when it's over three months old. But there isn't any thread, BBA, greenwater, or BGA. The plants grow at pretty much the same rate they did when I was injecting CO2, which is pretty slow. I have my light on for 10 hours straight, no break. I'll keep you posted with any developments. I may reduce the flourish amount as well, since I have a pretty good bioload now (platies are master poopers). :hihi: 

ll cool j, that's funny. When I finish my Doctorate, people have joked "Dr. J" too. :icon_smil 



turbowagon said:


> Tank looks great, LL Cool J.
> 
> I'm keeping a close watch, since I'm about to set up the exact same tank once I get the substrate in the mail. 24W should be plenty for growing all but the most light-demanding species. And I almost think it's too much lighting without CO2 addition. Why exactly did you stop the Excel dosing? Just to make it less maintenance? Keep us updated over the next few weeks if the plant growth remains healthy or if you have any algae issues.
> 
> ...


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## lljdma06 (Oct 16, 2006)

Thought I'd give a mini-update. I have some livestock pictures with the whole tank, and the water was so sparkling clear that I said "Time for photos!" :hihi: The platies are doing very well, so well that I've had to reduce my Flourish dose by a bit. The water sprite just needs to grow a bit faster so I can get rid of the egeria. No diatoms right now, the platies ate it up. 

Full tank shot.









Isn't he just cute?









Thanks for looking,

llj:icon_smil


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## mr.sandman (Nov 7, 2006)

looks very good and the plants are green and happy. And yes he is cute >3<


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## lljdma06 (Oct 16, 2006)

mr.sandman said:


> looks very good and the plants are green and happy. And yes he is cute >3<


Isn't he? I fell in love with these little fish when I saw them at Petsmart back in October. I've heard conflicting information about them (that they're a true dwarf strain, that they were raised in horrible conditions and are stunted, that they're sterile), but they seem extremely healthy and hardy to me. In addition, one of the females shows signs of being pregnant, so there goes the sterililty theory. I highly recommend them as an option for a larger nano (5g and up).

llj:icon_smil


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## aquaphish (Dec 20, 2002)

The plants seem to be doing ok and all look nice. But there is some question why all the Rotala and other plants seem to be bent in one direction. Seems to me that they are bending to a higher light source than what your light system can provide.


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## lljdma06 (Oct 16, 2006)

The tanks are situated in a room with a Northern exposure. Really not the best light source for growing anything other than the hardy houseplants that are right at the window. If it was either an Eastern, Southern, or Western, I would be inclined to agree with you and say that my aquarium is receiving supplemental light. Which for the low-tech setup that it is, is not necessarily a bad idea. What you are probably seeing is the bend caused by the two filter outlets located on the same side. It does bend the stemplants in that direction and I have a pretty good current which the platies and crypts seem to enjoy. In addition, the rotala has more than reached the surface, so it's bending to accomodate the new growth. If I didn't have an adaquate light source, then my HM would be growing upwards, and it still is very compact and not bending. I, however, thank you for your observations and will monitor my plants more closely. The rotala most definitely needs a good trim. Algae in this tank is almost non-existent, which is really surprising me.


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## lljdma06 (Oct 16, 2006)

I thought it was time for an update. This tank has had a major overhaul. The colors were just too intense for a jungle layout and now I have attempted a more Dutch layout. It's not perfected yet, but the essence of the layout is there. The HM actually was a compacted ball of stems so I moved it to the center and am trying for almost a topiary feel to the scape. Very rigid. Very symmetrical.










I have had not much to complain about regarding algae. I think the bioload, rootabs, and the light have formed a happy balance. I am considering adding trace to the tank in the future, especially since I no longer have a defined hardscape. But my water may already have minerals. 

Let me know what you think. It needs to grow it, and certainly tweaked, but I kind of like the idea of it. The complete opposite to my 36g, which is an unruly jungle. 

llj


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