# DIY led lighting for deep tank



## Regent (Jun 22, 2019)

Hi All,

I have been reading threads on the forum for the last few days about diy led lighting. and I think I have finally got my head around the basics.

I was originally going to get a twinstar 900S or 2 x fluval plant 3.0 436inch but in the uk this would run to about $450 for a 3 foot tank for either option.
To top it all off I have a wide deep tank, 3ft long x 2ft wide x 30 inches deep. I am only looking to grow low light plants at the moment however I'm unsure if either of these fixtures actually has the power to get enough par to the substrate and they both seem crazy expensive for what they actually are. I then looked at AI prime and Kessil which are both getting very costly.

With this in mind I started looking at DIY options.
I have read the plays of rays tutorial however it feels a bit out of date.
When I first started looking it was at led strips and the tc 420 but just like the lights i'm unsure if this solution would have the power to get light to the depth I need.

I'm hoping for a bit of help in a few key areas.

1)Suggestions for getting light to depth without spill, will lenses help? I'm happy to use strip leds or 3watt leds I want to avoid active cooling if possible which I believe likely rules out COBS?
2)Am I better off with more lower powered leds or fewer spots?
3)LED choice and spectrum balance. I was planning on using a high CRI 6500k LED as my base I'd like the option to do sunrise and sunset as well as moonlight so I'm guessing I'll need reds and blues. I prefer the slightly red hue of the twinstar S vs the harsher white of kessil.
4)What control system would people recommend?
5) I can get kits from reefleds.co.uk anyone heard anything about them?

Thanks for any help or advice you can give.
Best Regards
Scott


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## Marko_Sp (Jun 5, 2010)

Wats are wats, it does not matter if they come from 30 3W leds or 3 30W COB. Active cooling rules because it is chaeper, and whole system is lighter than one with passive cooling.
I think that your light must be pretty much high over the surface. Lenses will help, but reflectors will bee better with hang on.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Watts is watts sort of.. with 150Lumens per wat vs 50 Lumens per watt means you can use 1/3 the watts for the same output..
Lenses sort of are determined by hanging height..though there is an arguement for narrow lenses hung high for more parallel rays into the tank.


Best high CRI 6500k COB I know if is Lumiled's Fresh fish...
Luminous Devices and others make "dual K COB's so one can tailor spectrum to suit w/ out adding any "colors" though obviously limited in toning..

Your dimensions aren't really a problem..

2 rows of COBS w/ an inner row of "colors" really is easy enough..

As to passive vs active cooling..yea saves money on heatsinks but freshwater really isn't as demanding of power density as say saltwater.


Controller depends on driver/dimming choice..suggest 3.3 or 5V (drivers really have a range, controllers are set) pwm dimmable drivers


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## Regent (Jun 22, 2019)

Thanks, both for your replies.

Jeff, I'd already considered fresh fish from some of your other recommendations! The spectrum does look really nice and if I can passively cool it that would be the way I would go as it would simplify wiring. (I can also get hold of them in the UK where finding good leds seems a bit harder! I wish rapid led existed over here)
Does anyone have any photos of a fresh fish based light?

By nature of where the tank is the light will probably be on or close to the top of the tank so perhaps I was wrong in thinking lenses would help me get the light down. (I'm trying to avoid an algal mess at the top and under lit plants at the substrate!)

I found these threads very useful, with some useful suggestions for spectrum and layout.
https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/10-lighting/1221530-diy-led-build-52g-mbuna-tank.html?amp=1
and
https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/10-lighting/1277439-lighting-90-gallon-leds.html#/topics/1277439
I think you also posted images of vincel892's tank and the spectrum looks nice there.

I would say the visual appeal, plant colour and fish colour is my primary concern and optimum plant growth is secondary (though closely linked obviously). As such I would want some tunability. I'm wanting to be able to get moonlight and sunrise/set. Would you do colour mixing with 3w or are there other cobs you'd recommend? The duel cobs you mentioned don't look like a great colour temp? So I'm guessing would still need additions to get a pleasing look.

If you were doing two rows would you do two rows of two or 2 rows of three fresh fish? It seems like a lot of light so would absolutely need dimming!! Does the CRI not change as you dim them or did I read that wrong on another thread? Perhaps 4 fresh fish 2 bread and pastries and a few 3 watts (deep red, cyan and perhaps green) for colour mixing? Or would that result in odd colour fluctuations as you looked between cobs in the tanks..

Thanks again for the help, it's much appreciated.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Boy, lots of questions.. 
My current "head combo" would be Fresh fish/ crisp white..w/ added row of 660nm red.
You'd need to throw in a few "moonlights" if you didn't want to do white moonlight..found COB's though low dimming just don't seem to go part. low in comparison to smaller chips.. may just be me though and w/ whites..

fresh fish has blue/cyan additions and crisp white throw in a few violet LED's into there COB array



> * MIXING LIST
> ----------------------------------------
> myData crispwhite.csv [120°] x1
> myData fresh-fish-v2.csv [115°] x2
> ...












To be honest this quality of chips isn't exactly necessary but as to efficiency and color fidelity you really can't go wrong w/ it.

Add 660nm reds for punch or "full spectrum" chips which wouldn't affect color temp as much as the 660's
full spectrum will give you that more "magenta" glow that you prefer.
The ff/crisp are pretty neutral by themselves..
moonlight channel to taste..

Semi-perfection takes a bit more work..


> * MIXING LIST
> ----------------------------------------
> myData fullspectrum.csv [120°] x2
> myData crispwhite.csv [120°] x1
> ...


Hardest thing is finding the diodes..

Play w/ this for awhile:
SPECTRA

Just remember you want to be slightly below the locus not above.. unless you like a green tint..
Keep in mind the theoretical nature of this all and there is always LOT variation or different BINS..









COB design and placement is trickier than using 3W diodes. Will get to that in a moment..


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## Regent (Jun 22, 2019)

Hi Jeff,
I have been having a good play with spectrum. What an interesting tool! I found the .csv data I used in another thread.



> * MIXING LIST
> ----------------------------------------
> myData fresh-fish-v2.csv [115°] x2
> myData luxeon-crispwhite-cob-3000k.csv [120°] x1
> ...


Using this mix I seem to have lost some of my CRI and ended up with slightly warmer colour temperature than I expected. I'm assuming this would be corrected by shifting to full spectrum cobs. Most of the loss is on R12 and I can fill it but get compromise elsewhere.
I think adding reds is worthwhile as it will allow me to push more red, orange and warm white for sunset and sunrises.
Though I have a score of 100 is adding UV worthwhile? It's not going to affect look but may give plants a boost?

Having looked at the spectrum of moonlight it's actually not what I expected and I'd probably be happy just dimming a cool white right down! It looks very similar to fresh fish.

My gut feeling is that I should probably start with fresh fish, cool white and red to keep things simple at the start while leaving a couple of channels available for later improvement if needed. Though I'm worried 5600k may be too warm looking.

What I have found interesting is looking at the spectral graphs of some of the commercial lights. They all seem to have notable spikes in the spectrum and I assume this is to enhance specific colours.
In order
ADA solar RBG
Fluval 3.0
Chihrios Vivid and then wrgb


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Well first, I wouldn't be too concerned w/ the 100 score.. Since the spectrum plot is "relative" one can hit 100 by dimming some of the spiky colors..
It's sort of an artifact effect..



> * MIXING LIST
> ----------------------------------------
> LED Violet (420nm) [120°] x1
> LED RoyalBlue (450nm) [120°] x1
> ...


Horrible "visual" spectrum though..
Point is that the lowest wavelength is 420..
Violets and particularly UV in the cheaper diodes don't really have good track record of longevity..
Being DIY somewhat mitigates this but look to early replacement of those part. diodes..

funny about real moonlight ..really around 4500k-ish but due to the weakness of our color vision in low light looks more like 10000k..to us.
At least that is how I understand it..


As to RGB fixtures.. they do pop at the expense of subtlety of some tones..same w/ the cyan gap thing..
Easiest way to sort of sum it up is all shades of green look like one color of green.
Same w/ reds and blues.
To be honest it isn't horribly noticeable unless you have an anal bent to you.. 

Estimate of a "vivid" from published spectrum..


> * MIXING LIST
> ----------------------------------------
> myData chihrosvivid.csv [90°] x1
> ----------------------------------------
> ...


you can get a higher CRI out of just RGB w/ a bit of current tweaking per channel
UNSTitan


> * MIXING LIST
> ----------------------------------------
> myData unstitan.txt [120°] x1
> ----------------------------------------
> ...


Yellow is sort of a tricky thing..My tanks have(had) a lot of orangy substrates, leached tannins from plants over time, and plants reflect green/yellow more than red/blue so it's sort of always bit there..especially w/ "natural" light.
Not to mention what you see and what a camera ses is almost always different.. So judging images is a bit difficult.
From a personal experience I 've run SORRA COB's (5000k) and fresh fish side by side and there is little difference in "yellow" content..
The cheaper the diode s the more likely you get a separation between the K look..

Building CW/WW/R(orange to deep)/G(cyan)/B(violet to blue/cyan) diy lights sorts of solves most problems w/ color..
Like my fav (on paper) Radion XR15 gen4 freshwater..
simple design really..

Not going to get into the "benefits" or not of adding UV to torture your plants/fish.. 
nor the current theories on IR addition..
Or the intricacies of light attenuation by bandwidth by depth either..That's for people even more anal than me..
On that note..An early version of my 40b w/ "plain jane" diodes CW/WW/Cyan/royal blue/deep red.










Fresh fish sort of eliminates the need for cyan because of it's high CRI value and WHERE in the spectrum it comes from
Adding cyan, since it is visually "bright" can be distracting for many..so if added needs a channel of it's own and in moderation..
for fun.. a royal blue/deep red/cyan "chip"
https://www.ledgroupbuy.com/solderless-ocean-coral-white/
Just for the funny -ness of "small" changes in diodes..


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## Marko_Sp (Jun 5, 2010)

I also had problems with buying COBs that I wanted, and at last have bought Nicihia COBs NFDWJ130B-V2 COB-LED, 5000K, CRI 90 (lumitronix.com Germany.) Colors are very nice but I added blue, red and violet small leds to play with color and PAR. Maritex from Poland have some good and cheap lenses for COBs.
I have that light more than year on my 125g and it is very nice.

Have added some video of my aquarium
https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/10-lighting/1268169-5-nichia-cobs-125g.html#post11133449


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## Regent (Jun 22, 2019)

jeffkrol said:


> Well first, I wouldn't be too concerned w/ the 100 score.. Since the spectrum plot is "relative" one can hit 100 by dimming some of the spiky colors..
> It's sort of an artifact effect..


Thanks, that makes life easier!
I have had more of a play with spectrum (i've been on nights so slow replies!)



> * MIXING LIST
> ----------------------------------------
> myData fresh-fish-v2.csv [115°] x4
> myData luxeon-crispwhite-1203-3000k.csv [120°] x2
> ...


I think this looks like quite a nice mix, though will obviously need dimming!
The blue and cool while I can use for moonlight effects, deep red and crisp white for sunrise and sunset and with fresh fish, crisp white red blue and violet for day time.

I have added the blues to try and boost R12 though I'm struggling to get the CRI about 80 in that wavelength.
Does this seem a reasonable mix? Looking at it I'm not sure I can't achieve 10000k moonlight with freshfish and a blue channel dimmed right down.
If so I'll start looking at the positioning of cobs, power supplies, heatsinks drivers and dimmers!
To be honest the look I have seen that I like most is a 6500k with a bit of red added. And as you've suggested earlier this may be the simplest start point but with the addition of cool while for moonlight.


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## Regent (Jun 22, 2019)

Marko_Sp said:


> I also had problems with buying COBs that I wanted, and at last have bought Nicihia COBs NFDWJ130B-V2 COB-LED, 5000K, CRI 90 (lumitronix.com Germany.) Colors are very nice but I added blue, red and violet small leds to play with color and PAR. Maritex from Poland have some good and cheap lenses for COBs.
> I have that light more than year on my 125g and it is very nice.
> 
> Have added some video of my aquarium
> https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/10-lighting/1268169-5-nichia-cobs-125g.html#post11133449


Lovely looking tank, I think I can get most LEDS from mouser or by ordering from the USA.
I'm planning to start with Fresh fish and crisp white for my high CRI base then and red blue and cool white channels for most of the day/night effects.
Unfortunately as jeff pointed out I tend to get a bit carried away hunting for perfection.
What Lenses have you found work best for you with COBS?


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

you boost r12 2w/ 420 Violets...yhough there is interplay w/ other colors.
* MIXING LIST
----------------------------------------
myData crispwhite.csv [120°] x1
myData fresh-fish-v2.csv [115°] x1
LED Violet (420nm) [120°] x14
----------------------------------------

* SIMULATION DATA
----------------------------------------
Luminous flux : 6,773 lm
Radiant flux : 30,553 mW
PPF : 130 umol/s
TCP : 7690 K
CRI : 90
λp : 418 nm
Color : #FFB3DE[/QUOTE]

r12 is 99 w/ the above



> * MIXING LIST
> ----------------------------------------
> myData crispwhite.csv [120°] x1
> myData fresh-fish-v2.csv [115°] x1
> ...


Every swatch is 96 or greater (green 96, r4,r12 97 rest 98 or 99)
but that's just crazy talk..


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## Regent (Jun 22, 2019)

jeffkrol said:


> you boost r12 2w/ 420 Violets...yhough there is interplay w/ other colors.
> * MIXING LIST
> ----------------------------------------
> myData crispwhite.csv [120°] x1
> ...


r12 is 99 w/ the above



Every swatch is 96 or greater (green 96, r4,r12 97 rest 98 or 99)
but that's just crazy talk.. [/QUOTE]

I did add a couple of violets, but adding 14 I suspect may be visually distracting! It's hard to know what will work without being able to to actually see the lights here..
Yes I think at the moment the second mix is probably overkill, knowing me i'll do a base build and then continuously tweak! From a CRI perspective, you're spot on with fresh fish and crisp white.

Unfortunately, I can't get fresh fish in the same package as crisp white as mouser will only let me order 1208 crisp white in lots of 100!

I think to start with i'm going to go with 4 fresh fish and 2 crisp white in 2 clusters, This will give me a cri of 99 for my main daytime light with a red 660nm channel, a royal blue and violet channel. I'm guessing i'll need to add cool white to get dim enough for moonlight. The other option is the full spectrum led you mentioned earlier but I can't find anything suitable in the uk.

I think this should cover the tank at about 5 inches off the surface. Any advice for mixing the 3 watt and the cobs?
How have people powered the combination of COB and 3w leds?


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Regent said:


> Unfortunately, I can't get fresh fish in the same package as crisp white as mouser will only let me order 1208 crisp white in lots of 100!


Yea, annoying. I managed to snag ONE when they were available..OPP's meant smaller fresh fish COB's..had the same issue at the time..






Regent said:


> I think to start with i'm going to go with 4 fresh fish and 2 crisp white in 2 clusters, This will give me a cri of 99 for my main daytime light with a red 660nm channel, a royal blue and violet channel. I'm guessing i'll need to add cool white to get dim enough for moonlight. The other option is the full spectrum led you mentioned earlier but I can't find anything suitable in the uk.


Sounds good and as to lenses.. really complicates cob/single chip builds..
COB lenses (reflectors) are fairly large..
Stick w/ working w/ the 120 degree "built in" lens..





Regent said:


> I think this should cover the tank at about 5 inches off the surface. Any advice for mixing the 3 watt and the cobs?
> How have people powered the combination of COB and 3w leds?



Hmm think some people have...I believe but ??? Since drivers are constant current it will compensate for the voltage differential but to be honest.. ??? w/ such a large difference..
Running reds and violets on one channel has the possible voltage mis-match of 2-3 volts not 30-ish..

Beyond my pay grade..

for fun, this is a power calc..

14776 Lumens fresh fish/3055 Lumens crisp white/ 120mW 420 violet


> * MIXING LIST
> ----------------------------------------
> myData crispwhite.csv [120°] x1
> myData fresh-fish-v2.csv [115°] x4
> ...


98-100 for all swatches but skin tone r15 (97) and of course saturated blue is low-ish @ 84

now CRI isn't perfect anyways..


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## Regent (Jun 22, 2019)

Sticking to 120deg lenses then!

I think my plan is 
Channel 1 for fresh fish
Channel 2 for crisp white
Channel 3 for royal blue and violet
Channel 4 for reds
?Channel 5 for 10,000k White

I'm tempted to mount the COBS on individual heatsinks so I can play with their location and the 3w on a Bar.

Bump:


jeffkrol said:


> for fun, this is a power calc..
> 
> 14776 Lumens fresh fish/3055 Lumens crisp white/ 120mW 420 violet
> 
> ...


That would be nice be nice for day time with just a bit of red added. In fact, that's going to be my start point! I feel I have reached the point for now where some of it is going to be trial and error!


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## Regent (Jun 22, 2019)

Does anyone have any controller suggestions for the above setup? I'd like to run in constant current using PWM Meanwell drivers.
I'm guessing the tc420 works even with high powered COBS?


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Regent said:


> Does anyone have any controller suggestions for the above setup? I'd like to run in constant current using PWM Meanwell drivers.
> I'm guessing the tc420 works even with high powered COBS?



Sort of.. 
https://www.tc420.net/connecting-high-power-LEDs-to-the-TC420.php


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## Regent (Jun 22, 2019)

A bit of a bodge then, but can be managed to get going unless anyone has a better/easier solution. It should give good control for now. Long term I think I'll look at a raspberry pi solution but that would delay things for now.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

You could buy a pi (note pi 4 has been released) and download reef-pi.. You'd only for now, use the light module part..

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/...a-raspberry-pi-light-controller-progress.html
Kaide has a nice more line item driven package that gives the cool option of linear or gamma dimming.. 
Tc-421 is wireless and soldering the 5 wires in is relatively painless.
5 channel dozens of LDD's can be run off it..


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## Regent (Jun 22, 2019)

Hi jeff, thanks for all the help so far.
My final plan to start....

4x Fresh fish
4x Crisp white (struggling to actually get hold of these in any package)
would a cree xlamp in 95-98 CRI 3000k be a reasonable substitute?
https://www.mouser.co.uk/datasheet/2/90/ds-CMA1516-1507439.pdf
seem to lose the violet peak which is a shame. The alternative is the 90 CRI crisp white.
The other option is to use either marbled or red meat from the fresh focus line

I was going to use one Mean Well LDD-700H for each fresh fish and one Mean Well LDD-300H for each crisp white

I assume I need at least a 300 watt psu running at 48v. This is to give overhead for additional channels in the future.
Any advice for the kind of heatsink I should be looking at. I'm guessing I'll never use these at more than 50% power..


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Well the whole point of the crisp whitee is the violet diodes so if not available any low K will do.
CREE will be fine.
Low K CRI standard is an incandescent bulb btw.

Out of the Luxeon line "Bread and Pastries " is prob preferred.
To be honest I consider the lower K's an area to save money in.. within reason. 
Poor CRI still matters but not as critical.
That said really poor CRI here is ugly..
red meat is low in cyan/green
marbled has an interesting green spike.. like a RGB array.

Heat sinks are kind of tricky..
My pucks run on "surplus" copper finned heat sinks designed for passive cooled CPU's. Ratings are around 40W each.

https://www.heatsinkusa.com/
This gives you an idea of what forms available.
Sadly none are anodized, which really is beneficial in passive cooling.
Active cooling (fans) it's not needed..

https://www.rapidled.com/6-x-12-premium-heat-sink-and-enclosure/
People like these. Note LDD's mounted on a driver board do not fit inside, sadly.
There are workarounds..

https://www.heatsinkusa.com/8-000-wide-serrated-fin-extruded-aluminum-heatsink/
Tese are really cool but at $10/ft gets pricey..


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## SpringHalo (Oct 13, 2017)

Regent said:


> Hi jeff, thanks for all the help so far.
> My final plan to start....
> 
> 4x Fresh fish
> ...


If it's a 36x24x30 tank you're perfectly fine just using 2 of each COB to get good spread and high light. I use two 3-COB clusters (fresh fish, 3000k, and red) over my 75g and spread is fine. Also I'm running them at 1000mA and I still get 80PAR at the sub at 30% power.

I noticed in your first post you're just trying to grow low-light plants, and you should only have about 25 PAR or less to keep things algae-free. In that case these big COBs are WAY overkill and pretty damn expensive, and you can save a bunch of money going with smaller stuff. My suggestion is to use 4 of each CXB1304 5000k and 3000k mini-cobs. That's the combo I have in my Algae farm tank, along with red and blue LEDs for saturation. @ChrisX also used similar LEDs in his better-documented LED build.

Suggested build:
3ft of makersheatsink slim pricey but gives you everything you need to mount all LEDs (no drilling, tapping, gluing, anything but soldering the LEDs together) and looks slick.
tube-o-Thermal paste
4x CXB1304-0000-000C0UB430G ($3.60 ea)
4x CXB1304-0000-000C0UC450G ($3.60 ea)
8x Luxeon ES red (more if you have red plants to make them pop)
4x Luxeon ES Cool Blue 
4x Luxeon ES Royal Blue in series with the Cool Blue or separate
4x LDD-1000H Pin style
1x LDD-700H Pin style
1x LDD driver array board
1x HLG Series PSU (185W 48V Type Blank, will be enough even if you double LED qty)
ESP-WROOM-32 with SSLAC-ESP32 firmware for a controller


Running everything at 1000mA and reds at 700mA will get you *plenty* of light for a low-light setup. If your tank doesn't immediately burst into algae, you can just double up the LED channels but you'll be surprised at how bright this stuff is.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

SpringHalo said:


> If it's a 36x24x30 tank you're perfectly fine just using 2 of each COB to get good spread and high light. I use two 3-COB clusters (fresh fish, 3000k, and red) over my 75g and spread is fine. Also I'm running them at 1000mA and I still get 80PAR at the sub at 30% power.
> 
> I noticed in your first post you're just trying to grow low-light plants, and you should only have about 25 PAR or less to keep things algae-free. In that case these big COBs are WAY overkill and pretty damn expensive, and you can save a bunch of money going with smaller stuff. My suggestion is to use 4 of each CXB1304 5000k and 3000k mini-cobs. That's the combo I have in my Algae farm tank, along with red and blue LEDs for saturation. @ChrisX also used similar LEDs in his better-documented LED build.
> 
> ...


SpringHalo,

I was meaning to ask about your experience mixing the 5000K and 3000K COBS. Did the 3000Ks help the look? Also, how did the cheap COBs compare to the Fresh Fish build? My current setting is 6500K CXAs mixed with Deep Red epileds. 

What LED controller are you using? The TC421 is reliable, but it is pretty bad at experimenting with color mixing.


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## SpringHalo (Oct 13, 2017)

ChrisX said:


> SpringHalo,
> 
> I was meaning to ask about your experience mixing the 5000K and 3000K COBS. Did the 3000Ks help the look? Also, how did the cheap COBs compare to the Fresh Fish build? My current setting is 6500K CXAs mixed with Deep Red epileds.
> 
> What LED controller are you using? The TC421 is reliable, but it is pretty bad at experimenting with color mixing.



My cube tank is running 2700k and 5000k CXA1304s and I feel the 2700k is too yellow on its own, so I suggested 3000k. My main 75g tank has the 6500k fresh fish and 3000k. I feel an equal mix of the two makes the perfect daylight look, and as evening gets closer I taper off the 6500k to nothing so it matches the warm white lights in my house. Blue LEDs are also very effective at increasing color temp if you want the 6500k look from a 5000k LED.



I've found deep red LEDs (660nm) aren't aesthetically effective because they're 1/6 the visual brightness of regular red (630nm). It takes way more to notice them and then you're adding PAR without more tank brightness. Looking at the hobbyist perspective, plants care more about quantity of light in general than spectrum, and when you add water and glass to the mix, CRI goes out the window. That's why I have 50W ~630nm red LEDs. More redder is more better!



I'm using the controller as mentioned above. It's a pretty well-written software library for the ESP32, and you can solder your PWM wires straight from the drivers to the WROOM board. It's also not amazing for color mixing, but if you limit yourself to 3 or 4 channels (cool white, warm white, blue, and red) it's pretty easy to find something pleasing.

Example pic of 30% FF, 30% 3000k, and 30% 50W red:


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

CRI is one definition of "makes the perfect daylight look"... Of course "which daylight".. 



FF is spiked in cyan so there is that.."perfect daylight look" includes a healthy proportion of it..








Water attenuation is mostly in the red for us and glass absorption is minimal and fairly even across the visible spectrum.









Tannins and junk in the water throw CRI out the window more than anything.. but I like it to go in at least.. maybe not come out.. 


MORE of an FYI for some than any "criticism"..

My low maintenance 40 is a good example of screwing w/ CRI.
After awhile I run the tank through Nitrate removing resin which coincidentally removes tannins.. 
You'd be surprised how many there really are.. and how sometimes unnoticeably they "yellow" your water..
well there are other tannin removing filter components..

Anyways really nice tank..

$100 bluefish mini and you can slide 5 channels to your hearts content..
too bad their programming is simplistic..


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## Regent (Jun 22, 2019)

Oh wow, loads of new stuff to read and consider!

I have to confess I was loaning to cobs partly for simplicity and partly for the ability to get light down to depth.
If I can get away with two pairs that would really minimise the amount of soldering I need to do!
I was also aiming for high cri but with the ability to spike red. I recognise it may not be the whole picture and may actually not be what I like when it finally arrives.
I was aiming low light as I thought that would be all I'd be able to grow at a depth of 30 inches....

That said I have no aversion to a more complex build if it will give me a lot more tunability..

I quite like the potential of freshfish and marbled meat with the RGB spikes. Hoping it may remove a bit of the yellow.
@SpringHalo that's a lovely looking tank. Off to start playing with your suggested led combo in Spectrum!


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

nothing a bunch of colored LED's can't fix..










Depth penetration is more lensing than diode type..
Above tank used 90 degree (or close, forgot which) reflectors and lot of 3W diodes..
runs low % of capability..

Earlier iteration w/ same light..


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## Regent (Jun 22, 2019)

Jeff, that's also a gorgeous tank!

There are so many options it's actually a bit boggling. I think the truth is probably none are actually better, just different approaches?

I have to confess I'm still favouring fresh fish plus friends. Purely for simplicity, even if I have to run at 10 percent..


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

SpringHalo said:


> My cube tank is running 2700k and 5000k CXA1304s and I feel the 2700k is too yellow on its own, so I suggested 3000k. My main 75g tank has the 6500k fresh fish and 3000k. I feel an equal mix of the two makes the perfect daylight look, and as evening gets closer I taper off the 6500k to nothing so it matches the warm white lights in my house. Blue LEDs are also very effective at increasing color temp if you want the 6500k look from a 5000k LED.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info.

I may try adding a 3000K channel to my 6500K. The 6500k in my light benefits from Deep Red, it might be easier to balance with a 3000K channel.

Re: Deep Red.. I had mad pearling and growth, but also mad algae at what the Seneye saw as 100 PAR. However its debateable if the Seneye sees the Deep Red at all and I have something like 20 x 3W of them, so I think the problem was too much PAR. I may replace them with regular reds because if they have similar visual effect with less PAR, that is a good thing.

I've come to realize that visual brightness with relatively low PAR is a good quality in a light, because it can appear bright without growing too much algae.


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## Regent (Jun 22, 2019)

ChrisX said:


> Thanks for the info.
> 
> I may try adding a 3000K channel to my 6500K. The 6500k in my light benefits from Deep Red, it might be easier to balance with a 3000K channel.
> 
> ...


How would you go about designing a light like that chris, what frequencies would you omit/spike?


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Regent said:


> How would you go about designing a light like that chris, what frequencies would you omit/spike?



https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/...diy-light-progress-300w-epi-home-brew-11.html



He did it like this.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

Regent said:


> How would you go about designing a light like that chris, what frequencies would you omit/spike?


Check my build thread to see how I built the light. The takeaway from my build(s) is that..

The good

*You don't need expensive heat sink material. Aluminum stock from Home Depot works well. Separate bars allow even coverage.

*Enclosed box with active cooling design like PC cooling. 

*Arctic Alumina thermal adhesive is the best way to mount leds to aluminum. Don't mess with mounting brackets or screws.

* Cree CXA mini COBs are most cost effective whites. Lots of lumens but small enough that you can avoid spotlighting.

*Epileds are most cost effective colors by a large margin and should be purchased without a star base and glued directly to aluminum with thermal adhesive. None of the epileds that were glued to aluminum failed. 


The bad

* TCA421 is reliable, but makes testing color combinations difficult. Its not a good choice for a RGB + W light design. Its difficult to program color mixing AND also control PAR.

* I am using 6500K + Deep Red for my basic white. It looks good, not great. The blue and green are only used for twilight and night light (because programming independent channels with the TCA was too difficult.) Designing and building a RGB+W multichannel light was alot of work, the juice was not worth the squeeze. 

What was learned

*Its difficult to improve upon commercially available lights.

*Getting the color spectrum "good" is fairly easy with 6500+red or 6500+3000K combination. Getting it better takes a TON of work and experimentation.

*DIY lights make sense if you need alot of PAR for a deep tank on a budget AND you use cheap Cree/Epileds. If you use more expensive diodes you will soon be above the cost of a commercial fixture.


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## Regent (Jun 22, 2019)

Thanks Jeff, this is purely out of interest now having been sucked down the rabbit hole. My girlfriend thinks I've gone mad looking at led spectrums!


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Regent said:


> Thanks Jeff, this is purely out of interest now having been sucked down the rabbit hole. My girlfriend thinks I've gone mad looking at led spectrums!



Personally. I also prefer 3w emitters BUT it's not critical..
Each type has something the other doesn't..
COB's make it easy to dim left to right or any other combo.


So to throw more in here..
These:
https://www.stevesleds.com/Luxeon-SunPlus-Cool-White_p_355.html


Basically a small "fresh fish".. BUT there is a catch (there always is isn't there)
Lens Beam Angle - 162° max


38" spread at 3" off the water line..Needs lenses..
I actually have some on the 40... it doesn't "seem" as bad as it specs but did need to increase my output on that channel..
https://www.lumileds.com/uploads/637/DS171-pdf


Reflectors are recommended..(Don't like lenses in the 90 degree range)

"easy" spectrum..


> * MIXING LIST
> ----------------------------------------
> myData sunplus6500c.csv [145°] x30
> PhilipsLumileds Luxeon-Rebel Blue (460-480nm) [120°] x0.2
> ...


almost a perfect mild eggshell white.. 

slight tweak to blue.. 
https://www.color-hex.com/color/fdfcff

White is #FFFFFF.. 

so for even more fun....


> * MIXING LIST
> ----------------------------------------
> myData sunplus6500c.csv [145°] x30
> PhilipsLumileds Luxeon-Rebel Blue (460-480nm) [120°] x0.25
> ...





> RGB 254	254	255


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## Regent (Jun 22, 2019)

ChrisX said:


> Check my build thread to see how I built the light. The takeaway from my build(s) is that..
> 
> The good
> 
> ...


Thanks Chris, some really useful pointers there.
I think for me the cheapest lights I could use are 2x Fluval 3.0 or a twin star 900s they come in at £350 or $430. That's quite a big budget to play with. Neither of these are that controllable. The cheaper option in the UK is the Chihiros lights. I want wrgb no the cheapy cool white. The wrgb is £148 with no warranty and I'm pretty sure I'd need two to get nice coverage. I have also heard bad things re build quality.
Plus there's the fun of DIY! I don't need a lot of par, at least to start with. 
What I want is a nice crisp daylight white. Sunset, sunrise and moonlight. a nice even distribution across the tank. I'm hoping I can achieve a similar look to the commercial lights, for about the same cost but gain control! I may want the ability to pick out extra red/green and blue, but I don't really like the look of the new vivid lights...

Bump:


jeffkrol said:


> Personally. I also prefer 3w emitters BUT it's not critical..
> Each type has something the other doesn't..
> COB's make it easy to dim left to right or any other combo.
> 
> ...


So both of them are quite achievable. So many options! I like avoiding the expensive heatsink as chris suggested earlier. Again it gives a lot of scope to alter things later. I'm going to be quite close to the waterline so the spread may be no bad thing. The CRI on the sunplus is lower than the freshfish but I guess is improved post mixing. 
I don't mind spending a bit more on the leds if the outcome is worth it.
I basically need to figure out a 6500k main channel with a bit of red for pop. A sunrise and sunset and then a way to do moonlight. the rest of the spectrum will be me tweaking!


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

Regent said:


> Thanks Chris, some really useful pointers there.
> I think for me the cheapest lights I could use are 2x Fluval 3.0 or a twin star 900s they come in at £350 or $430. That's quite a big budget to play with. Neither of these are that controllable. The cheaper option in the UK is the Chihiros lights. I want wrgb no the cheapy cool white. The wrgb is £148 with no warranty and I'm pretty sure I'd need two to get nice coverage. I have also heard bad things re build quality.
> Plus there's the fun of DIY! I don't need a lot of par, at least to start with.
> What I want is a nice crisp daylight white. Sunset, sunrise and moonlight. a nice even distribution across the tank. I'm hoping I can achieve a similar look to the commercial lights, for about the same cost but gain control! I may want the ability to pick out extra red/green and blue, but I don't really like the look of the new vivid lights...
> ...


If you are mixing colors with the white, I wouldn't worry about CRI of the diodes too much. Form factor, size, cost, PAR more important.

The Cree CXA1304 6500K is an 85CRI part, cost about 1.25 and pumps a ton of PAR. You can buy many of them and distribute them over the tank for even lighting. Larger COBs will create spotlighting.

More important than the CRI is the "look". That is the difficult part.

If I was doing it again, I would probably buy fluorescent tubes. (With a RGB strip for in between fades) The beauty of those is that its easy to reproduce a look you like.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

6 fresh fish in 2 rows is pretty optimal for a "base"..
14" cones of light at 4" off the water line..
L2C5-FS001208E1500
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Lumileds/L2C5-FS001208E1500?qs=COJyYuYQspt8XmRoCEgS2g==
Let's just say $20US each..
At full you could be pushing 600PAR at the water surface..

You can save a bit of money (maybe) by using a slightly "warmer" COB w/ high CRI..
https://www.digikey.com/product-det...VM-14-56-95-36-AC00-F2-2/1214-1267-ND/5041238
6 COB's $84US..

480 PAR at the surface..


> * MIXING LIST
> ----------------------------------------
> myData LuminousStudio56.csv [120°] x4
> LED Violet (420nm) [120°] x2
> ...


Always has a very minor "pink" tone ...experimentally..but it's the most desirable tone..
Next up i the ADA "green tone".. at least globally.. 

This is w/ out considering your sunrise/sunset channel 










Staying in the "family" 
2 of these for sunrise-ish
https://www.digikey.com/product-det...VM-14-31-95-36-AC00-F2-2/1214-1266-ND/5041237

Or one.. Nice thing about pucks one can zone the tank..Say ww in the center.
Gradually raising cw/ form center out 
Drawback is the # of channels..
And w/ pucks # of drivers..

Blue(violet)/cyan/deep red is a form of white..

Simplest form...


> * MIXING LIST
> ----------------------------------------
> myData xnova-3000k.csv [115°] x1
> myData LuminousStudio56.csv [120°] x6
> ...


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## Regent (Jun 22, 2019)

Has anyone used or looked at the bridgelux vesta tunable white? They offer a 2700k (95 cri) to 6500k (97 cri) white for £5 with good colour mixing. all cct >92 cri.
6500k is similar spectrum to fresh fish but smaller cheaper cob.
https://www.bridgelux.com/products/vesta-series
https://www.bridgelux.com/sites/def...Phosphor Array Data Sheet 20180927 Rev A.pdf

Chuck in rgb (perhaps with a bit of cyan and violet) and you should have an amazing setup?

Bump: spectrum at each cct


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Regent said:


> Has anyone used or looked at the bridgelux vesta tunable white? They offer a 2700k (95 cri) to 6500k (97 cri) white for £5 with good colour mixing. all cct >92 cri.
> 6500k is similar spectrum to fresh fish but smaller cheaper cob.
> https://www.bridgelux.com/products/vesta-series
> https://www.bridgelux.com/sites/def...Phosphor Array Data Sheet 20180927 Rev A.pdf
> ...



I've perused them along w/ other companies that build "like" arrays..
Luminous Devices and I believe Citizens..


BTW.. built a "perfect white" (FFFFFF).. on paper w/ fewest diodes I could..




> * MIXING LIST
> ----------------------------------------
> myData fresh-fish-v2.csv [120°] x1
> myData mint2.txt [120°] x1
> ...



mint is lime w/ a blue spike (less broad green phosphor)..
So basically Fresh fish w/ added RGB but more broadly than typical RGB diodes..
Oddly. .the color tone varies by where I generate the spectrum (work vs home) 
Like FDFCFF...
r12 is still err "problematic"


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## Regent (Jun 22, 2019)

I just wondered if this was prehaps a more appropriate mid sized cob than fresh fish which has huge power. I'm not all the worried about fewest chips. I'll post the comparison of the two spectrums in a bit but this new brigelux gen 2 chip with dispensed phosphor is very close spectrally to fresh fish/sun plus. 
At full power it puts out 18 watts. I can get three of these for the cost of each fresh fish and warm white is essentially free and should be perfectly blended with a high cri across the board, the lumens per watt is also very high 124lm/watt. The only difference I can really see between this and a fresh fish/crisp white combo is the violet. The small dip at 480 Vs fresh fish is easily overcome with regular blue.

6 to 8 of these is far cheaper than 6 fresh fish+crisp white and still high cri.

The other option in high efficiency smaller cobs at 92 cri is the cma1306. The cxb range is horribly inefficient...


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Regent said:


> I just wondered if this was prehaps a more appropriate mid sized cob than fresh fish which has huge power. I'm not all the worried about fewest chips. I'll post the comparison of the two spectrums in a bit but this new brigelux gen 2 chip with dispensed phosphor is very close spectrally to fresh fish/sun plus.
> At full power it puts out 18 watts. I can get three of these for the cost of each fresh fish and warm white is essentially free and should be perfectly blended with a high cri across the board, the lumens per watt is also very high 124lm/watt. The only difference I can really see between this and a fresh fish/crisp white combo is the violet. The small dip at 480 Vs fresh fish is easily overcome with regular blue.
> 
> 6 to 8 of these is far cheaper than 6 fresh fish+crisp white and still high cri.
> ...


I certainly agree FF is, sadly, overkill in a lot of situations..
$10.84 for "18" Watts..
https://www.mouser.com/Optoelectron...-Lighting-Modules/_/N-b1b8h?P=1yx9cdjZ1ygwfcu
I have no concrete reason to choose one over the other.. 
Pricing is similar.. 
https://www.digikey.com/product-det...-A-23/976-BXRV-TR-2765G-20A0-A-23-ND/10279846


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## Regent (Jun 22, 2019)

The saving that I can see is with the bridgelux I can put two in each driver as they're 18v Vs 36v per channel. I think low voltage high current chips hold an advantage when designing an array. The drivers end up adding to the cost quite a bit with the bigger cobs.
I also have the spectrum for both chips and the bridgelux gen2 appears nicer to me?


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## Regent (Jun 22, 2019)

For interest:


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## Wobblebonk (Feb 13, 2018)

So get the bridgelux?
still need 2 drivers for 2 as it's 2 channels... unless you run all 4 channels with 1 LDD 700 or something, each set of channels in parallel but that would defeat the purpose of the cct range. An ldd is only like 4-5$ here. However data sheet shows... 



> Maximum Drive Current is maximum combined drive currents between both 2700K and 6500K channels. For example, if 700mA is applied to the 2700K
> channel, no current may be applied to the 6500K channel of the array. If 350mA is applied to the 2700K channel, then a maximum of 350mA can be
> applied to the 6500K channel.


so they claim 500ma to both sides at once is too much, though it'd probably still be pretty bright just sending 350ma to every channel.


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## Regent (Jun 22, 2019)

I was purely comparing the bridgelux and the luminous duel cct cobs here. at 36v you'd need two drivers for each chip one for each cct.
For the bridglux you could put two 2700k channels on one driver at 700ma and two 6500k channels on one driver? you just can't have the combined current over 700ma. Unless I figuring things out wrong?

Oddly the LLD700hw is £6.23 here - it costs more than the cobs..


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## Wobblebonk (Feb 13, 2018)

Yes that is correct you could run both sets of channels at 700ma, just not both at 100% at once or at least it's reasonably likely to fail quickly if you do. A lot of things are cheaper here though I'm starting to get tariff charges on arrow.com for meanwell LRS and stuff now


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Regent said:


> I was purely comparing the bridgelux and the luminous duel cct cobs here. at 36v you'd need two drivers for each chip one for each cct.
> For the bridglux you could put two 2700k channels on one driver at 700ma and two 6500k channels on one driver? you just can't have the combined current over 700ma. Unless I figuring things out wrong?
> 
> Oddly the LLD700hw is £6.23 here - it costs more than the cobs..



See what it would cost to "import" some bluacro dual channel drivers..
current adjustable btw..


> Adjustable 400-1000mA


 https://blueacro.com/acroiq

BTW: Bridgelux 6500k look better than usual..


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## Regent (Jun 22, 2019)

Thanks everyone for your help throughout this thread! It's turned into more of a mission than I planned. I've emailed blue accro, I'm trying to ignore their arrays..
On a less realistic note what I'd love to try is the optisolis cobs...


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## Regent (Jun 22, 2019)

Hi, I've ordered everything but the power supply.
Am I right that the total watts is the total max draw of everything added together? The voltage is the voltage of the highest draw ldd string. The amps the power supply must be able to deliver is the sum of all the ldd drive currents?

Eg largest string =48v so need a 56v PSU
Total draw at max load (never going to hit it) 220watts so 240watt PSU. Meanwell hlg can only deliver 4.5 amps..
However this isn't enough for 10 ldds.. so do I need to keep going up on PSU size?


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## Lingwendil (Nov 16, 2012)

Sorry, haven't been on this forum for a while, and just got your PM but figured I would check in here. What did you end up going with as far as LED loadout?

Most of my builds these days are nano and usually nearly completely from steve's LEDs as they are pretty affordable source for sunplus stars. My usual loadout is 3-4 parts sunplus cool white, 1 part high CRI neutral or warm white, 1 part cool/regular blue. I've been adding mint or lime to increase visual brightness depending on the build, and have actually stopped adding red unless it's by request. My 2.5 gallon shrimp tank has been running (I think) 3x sunplus cool white, 1x neutral white, 1x cool blue, 1x lime for about six months or so. Colors look great and plants grow like weeds. If I were to build bigger I would likely use the same basic setup just scaled larger, with an equivalent amount of cool white handled by larger COB types, maybe even the bicolor tunable arrays.

All my lighting has been working just as I like it to the point where I practically forgot about them. They just plain work 



Those bridgelux Vesta look promising, I'll have to look at a pair at some point. Might be a good starting point for a moderately sized build later on.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Lingwendil said:


> Sorry, haven't been on this forum for a while, and just got your PM but figured I would check in here. What did you end up going with as far as LED loadout?
> 
> Most of my builds these days are nano and usually nearly completely from steve's LEDs as they are pretty affordable source for sunplus stars. My usual loadout is 3-4 parts sunplus cool white, 1 part high CRI neutral or warm white, 1 part cool/regular blue. I've been adding mint or lime to increase visual brightness depending on the build, and have actually stopped adding red unless it's by request. My 2.5 gallon shrimp tank has been running (I think) 3x sunplus cool white, 1x neutral white, 1x cool blue, 1x lime for about six months or so. Colors look great and plants grow like weeds. If I were to build bigger I would likely use the same basic setup just scaled larger, with an equivalent amount of cool white handled by larger COB types, maybe even the bicolor tunable arrays.
> 
> ...



For larger builds don't see any real spectrum advantage (and a wee bit disadvantage) over Luxeon "fresh fish" which are really close in spectrum to the Sunplus diodes w/out the "angle disadvantage".


Maybe I'm too emotionally attached.. 


Btw: Are you lensing the sunplusses?


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## Lingwendil (Nov 16, 2012)

Yeah, they're what I'm using for whites. I really like them.


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## JoatToaj (Oct 9, 2019)

Can someone please post all the links to the items required to do this build ? 
I'm looking to be able to light a tank 48" × 24" w 30" deep tank and GROW anything I want at any depth lol 
T.I.A
I live in Hawaii so have to ship everything in


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Regent said:


> Does anyone have any controller suggestions for the above setup? I'd like to run in constant current using PWM Meanwell drivers.
> I'm guessing the tc420 works even with high powered COBS?



TC-420(421) work fine w/ a slight modification..


https://www.tc420.net/connecting-high-power-LEDs-to-the-TC420.php
https://www.tc420.net/images/TC420/TC420-High-Power-LED-Circuit.png

or..


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## Sorcerer (Sep 12, 2019)

Hello ...

I'm in search for a LED lightning for my tank.
I'll go to study it seriously.

Regards
Serge


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