# erythromycin question



## Lycosa (Oct 16, 2006)

Be careful. Erythromycin is an anti-biotic. Remember that basically means 'against life'. Erythromycin can throw your tank back into a cycle as it also will kill the benificial bacteria growing in your system. I know that you can purchase it at your LFS where they sell fish meds. Dosing is done as per instructions, however there are far better tested and true measures that can be taken to be rid of it. A quick search of this forum should yield many results.


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

you should be able to get this at any lfs that carries mardel products. api also has erythromycin tablets. half dosing the recommended dose will be enough to kill the slime algae and shouldn't harm your beneficial bacteria. though this will fix it temporarily, you will need to get your nutrients in check in order to keep this stuff away.


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## dhavoc (May 4, 2006)

used it as well for BGA and it works great. used the Mardel brand at full recomended strength. shrimp, fish and the rest came thru great. make sure to do water changes to remove the dead/dying algae or it will foul the tank pretty bad. didnt notice any drop in benneficial bacteria, though this was a low tech planted tank. people say use it as a last resort, but after weeks of trying the other remedies with no success, this was the quickest easiest way. make sure you follow danepatrick's advise and find the cause of the algae or it will come back.


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## Daniel*Swords (May 8, 2006)

You can also get Fish Mycin (= Erythromycin) online. I think it might be cheaper than Mardel's product. Here are some instructions for its use against BGA.


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## Lycosa (Oct 16, 2006)

Sorry for being so against this practice, but the two times that I did use it, I had trouble afterwards. After thinking a little about it, the problems arrived when I used it in a freshwater fish only tank, and a saltwater reef tank. Neither of them were planted. My advice may have been a little apprehensive based on my own personal experience with the stuff. I'm still learning everyday about planted tanks. I'm guessing the rules don't apply as well here as they have in the past. For me, it has been a temporary fix only as it treated only the symptom, not the cause.


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## Blacksunshine (Oct 11, 2006)

Erythromycin = savior.

For my BGA I used a treatment of the Er + a black out and a hefty cleaning. went away totally after just about 3-4 days. 
Problem with this is you do need to remove your Bio-media from the tank as the anti bods will kill all bacteira in the tank. But it is horribly effective. 
once you clear out the outbreak it is important to then attack the root cause of the BGA in the first place. Some people think that it is caused by excessive organic waste left at the bottom of the tank. Also it is considered to be because of lacking levels of nitrates allowing the bact to feed of of the other nutriants and not allow the plants to. 
Bottom line. Keep a clean well balanced tank and BGA shouldn't be an issue. 
Using the Erythromycin will greatly reduce its ablity to spring back as it will also kill the stuff you might miss with your cleaning.

Petco or your LFS should have the API Erythromycin tabs for around 5-6 bucks an 8 pack.


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## EliteFishy (Jul 25, 2006)

Can I switch my mature with a different filter during the treatment so save the benificial bacterial?


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

For planted tanks that are normally stocked, you shouldn't have problems. At least I never lost anyone by treating with EM, did a good job on the cyanobacteria though. If your tank is overstocked, maybe keep an eye on your fishies, ready to do some water changes if they start acting weird.


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## Blacksunshine (Oct 11, 2006)

EliteFishy said:


> Can I switch my mature with a different filter during the treatment so save the benificial bacterial?


.

Sure. When I was doing my treatment I used a sock filled with poly fill for mech filtration. Since plants take up a large part of the bio load so long as your not already on the brink of a bio break down removing the bio media from the filter shouldnt be that great of an issue. for the most part our filters are really only needed for mech filtration and water circulation and as a supplement to the plants.

oh yeah. I used the dosage as it was printed on the package. I did not half it. I did however take a few moments to crush the pills up and delute it in water.


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## EliteFishy (Jul 25, 2006)

How can I tell if the medication has erythromycin? It doesnt say on the box.


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## Blacksunshine (Oct 11, 2006)

thje stuff I use is labled Erythromycin in big black letters. And its a green and yellow package.


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## fresh_lynny (Mar 9, 2006)

Lycosa said:


> Be careful. Erythromycin is an anti-biotic. Remember that basically means 'against life'. Erythromycin can throw your tank back into a cycle as it also will kill the benificial bacteria growing in your system. I know that you can purchase it at your LFS where they sell fish meds. Dosing is done as per instructions, however there are far better tested and true measures that can be taken to be rid of it. A quick search of this forum should yield many results.


Erythromycin kills gram positive cocci and Erythromycin sensitive gram negatives. Nutrifying bacteria is in the form of gram negative rods not sensitive to Erythromycin. Dosing Erythromycin will NOT screw up your tank. Again, things spewed out because it was said in the past, with no true knowledge of the subject. Dose it...it is safe and effective.
If you had problems with it in the past, it is likely due to high protein and NH4 spike dues to increase in dead cyano floating around the water column, not the drug or an interruption in Nitrobacter.


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## fresh_lynny (Mar 9, 2006)

EliteFishy said:


> Can I switch my mature with a different filter during the treatment so save the benificial bacterial?


no need to do anything.


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## EliteFishy (Jul 25, 2006)

Im on day three with the medication. My water is kinda cloudy and one of my neon tetras is gasping for air and lost its color. Its not shoaling with my other 20 neon tetras. What should I do?


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## EliteFishy (Jul 25, 2006)

Its day 5 of the treatment and there are still a lot of GSA. The directions on the box says to does for 5 ddays but if there still is GSA should I keep dosing without any water changes? Also should I stop adding ferts during the treatment?


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## fresh_lynny (Mar 9, 2006)

GSA?
You dose Erythromycin for BGA <a bacterium> not GSA, and algae.
It will do absolutely nothing to kill algae~


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## medicineman (Sep 28, 2005)

fresh_newby said:


> Erythromycin kills gram positive cocci and Erythromycin sensitive gram negatives. Nutrifying bacteria is in the form of gram negative rods not sensitive to Erythromycin. Dosing Erythromycin will NOT screw up your tank.


Agreed. I study this erithromycin properties as well in the past.

One thing is because you kill gram positive bacteria (which is in presence of BGA means quite a lot of them cocci form) which could lead unbalance and a blank spot for other kind form of bacteria to grow in its place. The same as in a human body, too much or prolonged use of a single kind of antibiotic could lead to severe unbalance. That is why doctors give patient the other kind of antibiotic spectrum just to even up the balance. 

The morale of the story is to give erithromycin in just enough quantity and not in excess, worse still for a long term. I did mine using ertihromycin caplets, cut into 3 and buried under the substrate (and always near the glass-substrate area where they grow most), giving several inch of space inbetween each bits. It took slightly more than a week for the BGA to start die off, within two weeks there is almost none or very little left. Now there is no more BGA in my tank.


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## Khandurian (Oct 25, 2006)

I would just like to throw in there that some people should be very careful using this type of medication. 

I found out the hard way that my wife is in allergic to Erythromycin. Made for a nasty trip to the hospital. Of course not everyone will have this problem. 

I now make sure I use alternatives to curing problems with fish.


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## EliteFishy (Jul 25, 2006)

I have this kind of algae. Aquaticscape.com the on called Blue-green, slime or smear algae.


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## fresh_lynny (Mar 9, 2006)

Khandurian said:


> I would just like to throw in there that some people should be very careful using this type of medication.
> 
> I found out the hard way that my wife is in allergic to Erythromycin. Made for a nasty trip to the hospital. Of course not everyone will have this problem.
> 
> I now make sure I use alternatives to curing problems with fish.


We are not talking about use in people.
NO ONE should be taking antinbiotcs themselves unless they are under a doctor's supervision. It can cause death. Seriously. People who have a scratchy throat and they look in the med cabinet and see their kid's amoxicillin and start gratuitously taking it....CUT IT OUT
I can't even begin to tell you the problems this may cause.
1. Worst case, you are allergic to the class of drug and you go into something called anaphylaxis, where your throat closes up and if you do not seek help within 15-20 minutes, you die.
2. OK so you aren't allergic, but what you have is a virus <most cases of that symptomology> Antibiotics do nothing against viruses....period. So you end up screwing up your normal flora and you get a yeast infection <yeast get upperhand> or your gut flora gets wiped out, and you have GI problems for the next month. Is it worth it?
3. You take one from a calss that is different than the targe of the bacterial affliction you have. You then cause resistence in your flora in that bacteria from repeat introduction and do nothing to the etiological agent in question. Here of Superbacteria? Here of resistant strains of bacteria? This is beacuse of overprescribed antibiotics and gratuitous use from your own medicine cabinet at will....you should never have any antibiotics in your cabinet anyway. You sgould take the entire prescribed regimen. If it is for 14 days you take it for 14 days, even if you feel better after three. You never should have leftovers. This also contributes to resistant strains. How many times do I hear..."Oh Lynn, my throat hurts and I am stuffy...can you prescribe me a Z-pak? NO! it is a virus and your body needs fluids and rest to get over it. Introducing this into your body with no offending agent to attack means every one of your flora gets introduced and desensitized...then when you TRULY need it in the future, you are screwed. Your flora is resistant and you have nothing left in your arsenal to attack it. Then you have bigger problems! The point I am making? Specificity of drug, bacterial ID, and specialized treatment course and dosage are the key to getting to the bottom of any bacterial affliction.

In the tank, BGA is a known bacterial. <there is your ID> The type of anibiotics called macrolides are specific for the bacteria in question <there is your specificity of drug> The treatment course has been establed on the Maracyn package. you can use any generic Erythromycin in its place. Make sure you crush tablemts and dliute in tank water, or open capsules in water. This does not mean you can dose your kids with Maracyn! <it is made with non-oral grade components anyway...but moreso for the reasons I stated above.

Again, for the recommended dosage, your Nitrobacter should be left in check. If you try a higher dose for a longer duration , i cannot say the same, as when the BGA is all gone it will need something else to work on, and since there is no more etilogical agaent left there will be more available drug to work on penetrating the cell wall of Nitrobacter, so you may see a problem in your biological flora.

I am sorry if I am harsh, but it is somethiing I am passionate about and I want to dispel any misconceptions and want to make sure everyone knows this is nothing to be taken lightly, but again, another "hobbyist myth" because if you do a search, the second someone mentions that they have BGA and they did a blackout and it came back....how do I dose Maracyn...the very next reply is usually someone saying.."oh don't do that, you will wipe out your biological bacteria." STOP THAT"

ALL THAT SAID...it is NOT for algae...never never never...since it does not act on algae it will be in high enough concentration to affect your biological filter....If you are dosing for BGA, a bacteria, it will not be in high enough concentration to affect your flora, because all of it is working on penetrating the cell wall of the dreadful BGA.


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## fresh_lynny (Mar 9, 2006)

EliteFishy said:


> I have this kind of algae. Aquaticscape.com the on called Blue-green, slime or smear algae.


ok that is BGA...in one of your threads you said GSA....big difference.

here is your quote:

Its day 5 of the treatment and there are still a lot of GSA. The directions on the box says to does for 5 ddays but if there still is GSA should I keep dosing without any water changes? Also should I stop adding ferts during the treatment?


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## EliteFishy (Jul 25, 2006)

oops, i got these two algaes confused. So does anyone know what I should do?


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## Lycosa (Oct 16, 2006)

Thanks for your time in posting Fish Newby. This is such a commonplace myth that it oozes from every forum on the internet, as well as many books that I have on my shelf. Some of the people that I have respected most on a well known saltwater FAQ give the same advice as I gave regarding Erythromycin. It's so commonplace and accepted that it instinctive to repeat it!

It's quite easy to make such an error when we really haven't any proof to substantiate such claims. We often rely on the research and advice of others to guide us into the hobby, and eventually the science. Time and time again, as we go on, we are finding more myths are broken because of forums like these where people bring their research, experience and knowledge from all over the world to correct these misconceptions. It is unfortunate that these same forums contribute to cementing these myths into 'law' as well!

Hopefully many people will read this post and stop perpetuating the myth.

Why does it seem that the more I learn, the less I really know!:icon_smil


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## fresh_lynny (Mar 9, 2006)

I think that is true with life. The more aware we are the more we realize that what we know is only the tip of the iceberg.

As for you elite fishy....I suggest you take a picture of what you have and post it so we all know what you are trying to fight. Then you can get the right help.


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## EliteFishy (Jul 25, 2006)

Im 100% sure its blue green algae. It fits the description and the picture on the website.


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## fresh_lynny (Mar 9, 2006)

ok then. The Maracyn treatment is the next step then. If you don't want to do that, you can do a complete 4 day black out.
There are specific steps in doing the black out. You diecide which you wanst to try first and we will help you go through the steps.


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## sayn3ver (Sep 1, 2006)

i just did a 5 day treatment for BGA. I used 200mg capsule on day one then half a capsule until da 5 and the BGA is gone. I did a waterchange and everything seems to be good.(i had a lack of nitrates...thus the BGA showed up). I felt that my plants were not only too weak, but i also did not have the time(between college, work, and going out of town, i didnt have the time to tape up filter hose and completely black out the tank).

Although, i try not using drugs/chemicals unless i really have to(inall facets of my life).

I also agree with fresh_newby. I work as a pharm tech at cvs and get sick of people who come in, get on their cell, call their family doctor, who then calls us and calls in an rx for a z-pak cause they "aren't feeling well" all while sitting there tapping their foot like its some kind of inconvience to wait for this. Sorry i had to vent. America is so over medicated.


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## Khandurian (Oct 25, 2006)

Fresh-Newby - I know exactly that we are not talking about use in humans. 

I was simply trying to throw out a pre-caution out there that this is still a DRUG and it should be handled carefully.

Sticking your hand in the tank to remove a decoration, or to re-seat the heater while the tank is medicated, can be just as bad as taking the medication by mouth if your allergic to that strain of anti-biotic. 

Which, this was the case. The heater became dislodged from the its suction cups, the wife stuck her hand in to re-seat the heater. Next thing I know I am rushing her to the hospital, at this point we find out she is allergic to the medication in the fish tank.


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## fresh_lynny (Mar 9, 2006)

Khandurian said:


> Fresh-Newby - I know exactly that we are not talking about use in humans.
> 
> I was simply trying to throw out a pre-caution out there that this is still a DRUG and it should be handled carefully.
> 
> ...


ahhh yes...can be a risk for hypersensitivity for sure.
It is a better way for you to find out she is allergic than if she were prescribed it and took it by mouth though. That could have been a real problem!


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## Petblvd (Dec 6, 2006)

Blacksunshine said:


> Erythromycin = savior.
> 
> Petco or your LFS should have the API Erythromycin tabs for around 5-6 bucks an 8 pack.


Just so people that don't know are aware, your LFS or online should also have Erythromycin in larger quantities, although the larger quantities tend to be special order items at most LFS's. If you have a larger tank though, this can end up saving you quite a bit of money.


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## Daniel*Swords (May 8, 2006)

Or you can have Fish Mycin for example from here.


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## crazie.eddie (May 31, 2004)

I have some Erythromycin, National Fish Pharmaceuticals sells them online. You get about 25 grams in the container for about $20 (USD). API can be bought at your LPS. I bought mine at Petsmart. I tried both from National Fish Pharmaceuticals and API and, even though API is a little more expensive, it dissolves allot better in the water. I'm treating one of my fish for swim bladder and National Fish Pharmaceuticals's brand doesn't seem to dissolve completely, since I still see some kind of granules the next day. With API, the only thing I see is the fishes waste.


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