# Upgraded fluval spec V - first high tech tank, watch me make mistakes!



## Philosoraptor (Dec 26, 2013)

Rocks arrived, played with a lot of aquascapes, found one I like enough to leave for a few days. Critiques and comments appreciated.










Edit: Tweaking the layout already. Is this a better layout? I wonder…


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## jlfkona (Jan 1, 2013)

I like the second one better. 


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## Dantrasy (Sep 9, 2013)

I really like the way you had the two large rocks arrange in the outdoor pic. The dramatic 'V' shape works for me. And then a few of the small rocks scattered around the bases.

Here's a link to my fave spec v

http://www.aquariumlife.com.au/show...ch-nano-tank-19L-Fluval-spec?highlight=spec+v


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## Philosoraptor (Dec 26, 2013)

Thanks guys! Boy that spec v looks great. I'll give some other layouts a shot.


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## Philosoraptor (Dec 26, 2013)

More potential landscapes!














































Thanks for looking!


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## Bserve (Nov 4, 2012)

Philosoraptor said:


>


I like this the best.


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## Dantrasy (Sep 9, 2013)

Wow, these new ones look great! Something must have really inspired you. 

The last one looks very natural to me, but the the height is a bit low.

My preference is #2, i can't just imagine dhg between the rocks.


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## Philosoraptor (Dec 26, 2013)

Thanks guys! I'm playing around with that first layout again, I like it quite a bit too. It seems to create some real distance with the layout and work with, rather than against, the small amount of substrate I have.

I'm still kind of torn on stocking. I'd like the 'lawn' to grow in quickly, and I'd like to skip the dry-start step. Should I go with riccia or glossostigma to accomplish that? Does dwarf baby's tears need a dry start? In terms of 'detail' plants, to attract some attention I think I will puchase some dwarf hair grass and maybe some hydrocotyle. 

What's the upper limit for the number of celestial pearl danio I can stock? My local fish store is insisting that ten will be fine and they'd appreciate the added security of more fish to school with, but I wanted to get some other opinions.


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## HybridHerp (May 24, 2012)

Dude, you have an amazing amount of planning done already, bravo.

As I'm terrible with scapes, I shall only comment on plants. I wouldn't do HC if you aren't at least doing a paintball co2 thing, but, I would go either glosso or maybe even monte carlo (if its not too large a leaf size) or maybe even dwarf hairgrass. I've done DHG and glosso without co2, glosso especially is one hell of a weedy plant when it gets going.

How many gallons is this tank? I don't see why 10 celestial pearls wouldn't work...they are very, very small fish. Honestly, if anything, you might be able to add even more lol

Doing any shrimp at all?


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## Philosoraptor (Dec 26, 2013)

HybridHerp said:


> Dude, you have an amazing amount of planning done already, bravo.
> 
> As I'm terrible with scapes, I shall only comment on plants. I wouldn't do HC if you aren't at least doing a paintball co2 thing, but, I would go either glosso or maybe even monte carlo (if its not too large a leaf size) or maybe even dwarf hairgrass. I've done DHG and glosso without co2, glosso especially is one hell of a weedy plant when it gets going.
> 
> ...


Thanks man! I'm still playing around with new rocks capes (it's become my new obsession):










Might be my favorite so far. Leaving it for a few days while my plants come in.

The CO2 I'm planning on using is just this guy:

http://www.valuepetsupplies.com/flu...kw={keyword}&gclid=CPid-_nRhLwCFQrxOgod7jMAFQ

Not too expensive, and I really want to try the high tech route. Glosso sounds like a pretty robust plant, far as I can tell.

The tank is 5 gallons, near as I can tell. I'd like to do shrimp eventually, but I'm going to wait until my fish less cycle is done before adding them. I'm debating between red cherry shrimp and amano shrimp, from what I've read it's just about color. Jeez 10 fish is a lot though, that'll be really fun to watch.


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## HybridHerp (May 24, 2012)

You say 10 fish is a lot?
(looks at my 5.5)
(stock is infinite endlers, infinite fire red shrimp, 2 badis, 2 ottos, and 8 green neons)
sureeeeeee, 10 is a lot lol

I'll say this though, granted, that I like heavier stocking levels than most. SO there's that to consider.

As far as your co2, I am unfamiliar with it, but if it can get a drop checker green sure. Although I think in the long run it is more expensive to do it this way than to say, just get a regulator and hook it up to a co2 cylinder that you won't have to refill very often.

How much are the replacement cartridges on that thing, and how often do you think you'll need to replace the co2?

Although, I guess this would be a nice thing if its only for a temporary tank or for a tank that gets moved around a lot. After seeing that price, I'm almost wondering if it'd be worth hooking that up to my 5.5 that I keep in my dorm (but move back home at the end of semesters, it gets moved around a fair decent amount).


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## Philosoraptor (Dec 26, 2013)

Glad to hear ten is ok! I wanted a small school of the little suckers, and 9 seems like a good number. I'll watch my chemistry and maybe even add in a school of pygmy cories. No offense, but after seeing your tank I'm reconsidering using red cherry shrimp! I think the number of rcs would distract from my rockscape, which is the main draw of my tank I suppose. I figure I'll go for 3-5 amano shrimp and that'll do me.

Replacement cartridges are around $15 for 3 20g containers. According to reviews they last about a month a piece. Seems like an ok deal to me.

Amazon.com: Fluval 20g-CO2 Disposable Cartridges - 3-Pack: Pet Supplies

Thanks for all your help. Now, just because I'm an obsessive nerd, I think I found my favorite scape. I think it might be a bit too low though, so may invest in some additional substrate to raise it up.


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## LailaSophia (Dec 3, 2013)

I'll be following along! I have a low tech Spec 5 that I would like to upgrade eventually.


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## Philosoraptor (Dec 26, 2013)

Welp, I just ordered my plants from alpha pro breeders. Three pots of HC, two pots of dwarf hair grass and one mat of flame moss! As soon as they get here, I will plant and photograph the results.

In the past I have always done a fishless cycle. I bought a bottle of tetra safe start and will be taking a squeeze of one of my LFS's filter. Am I right in assuming that this +50% water changes a day will be enough to allow me to introduce fish, or should I still go out and purchase some ammonia? I am impatient and would like to introduce say, 3-5 CPD's right off the bat.


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## Philosoraptor (Dec 26, 2013)

Plants are on their way! Can't wait until they get here! 

In the mean time, I had some questions about the dry start method - hope someone can help me out with it. Is it possible for me to cycle my tank while allowing the plants to grow in? I'm concerned that there would be no water movement at the substrate level, but I suppose there generally isn't anyway. I'm planning on using ammonia and cultured bacteria to seed the substrate.


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## samwoo2go (Apr 27, 2013)

Philosoraptor said:


> Plants are on their way! Can't wait until they get here!
> 
> In the mean time, I had some questions about the dry start method - hope someone can help me out with it. Is it possible for me to cycle my tank while allowing the plants to grow in? I'm concerned that there would be no water movement at the substrate level, but I suppose there generally isn't anyway. I'm planning on using ammonia and cultured bacteria to seed the substrate.


The thing is, if you are using a substrate that naturally leak ammonia uniformly (i.e. ADA or MGOCPM) it will probably cycle without adding anything. Not sure about your substrate, but how are you planning to add ammonia without water movement? You are risking high concentration of Ammonia and too much ammonia will actually kill the bacteria that processes it. 

My advice is to ditch the ammonia/cultured bacteria and just do the DSM as normal. Once you fill the tank, your cycle will be at where it's at, most likely you are just looking at a much reduced cycle period if any.


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## Philosoraptor (Dec 26, 2013)

Thanks Samwoo, appreciate the advice.

Got plants!


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## Philosoraptor (Dec 26, 2013)

Well, it's been two weeks and I've set the tank up with its stand. Both the hair grass and HC are growing well and seem to be establishing extensive root systems. The flame moss seems more variable, growing in some places, browning in others. Two individual clumps of hair grass seem to not be doing well. I'm tempted to flood it next week, as I'm sure the HC will stay dug into the mat, and I think the flame moss and hair grass will do better. It might take longer for me to get my full carpet, but at least I'll still have all my plants. Will supplement with pressurized CO2. Thoughts?


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## kman (Dec 11, 2013)

Looking good!

Looks like you moved your light to the other side of the tank?

Curious if you need co2 or if you could dose flourish and flourish excel instead?


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## Philosoraptor (Dec 26, 2013)

kman said:


> Looking good!
> 
> Looks like you moved your light to the other side of the tank?
> 
> Curious if you need co2 or if you could dose flourish and flourish excel instead?


Thanks! Yeah, keeping it angled resulted in the light slowly pulling the mount off the side of tank. Unfortunately, it's only held on by an adhesive. From what I've read, HC carpets really need CO2, but I have no idea really. In any case, I've ordered the CO2, so I might as well use it. :]


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## The Trigger (May 9, 2012)

Like the hardscape. Can't wait to see how this turns out!


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## AussieDIYFK (Aug 13, 2012)

good job mate that should come up a treat


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## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

the last one looks nice
as long as the carpet plant don't swallow the rocks


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## Philosoraptor (Dec 26, 2013)

Thanks guys! I appreciate the kind words. Well, my flame moss and DHG weren't doing so well and I got my CO2, so I went ahead and flooded the tank. Remarkably, the HC seemed pretty well rooted after only three weeks. It's been flooded for a week now, everyone's pearling and looking quite happy. I've left some food in the tank to decompose and added Tetra Safestart to get my cycle going. Next week I add some fish!










I've got a little bit of algae growing, other than more water changes should I be doing anything?


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## dubels (Jun 14, 2012)

Check your water parameters before adding fish. Tetra SafeStart is supposed to be used in conjunction with a fish in cycle or at least a constant ammonia source. A little food before it decomposes might not be enough to keep the bacteria alive or at least enough to support adding 10 CPDS right away.


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## kman (Dec 11, 2013)

You could dose with a little Excel. Not needed since you have co2, but it has algicide properties as well.


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## Philosoraptor (Dec 26, 2013)

dubels said:


> Check your water parameters before adding fish. Tetra SafeStart is supposed to be used in conjunction with a fish in cycle or at least a constant ammonia source. A little food before it decomposes might not be enough to keep the bacteria alive or at least enough to support adding 10 CPDS right away.


Yeah, that was my suspicion as well. I will definitely test the water quality and was planning on repurchasing tetra safe start. I've also added a nice squeeze of my buddy's 55 gallon tank's filter into my filter chamber. Plenty o' nitrates. 

Won't be adding all 10 fish at once, planning on only doing 5 or so initially, but, again, all of that's dependent on the water. :]



kman said:


> You could dose with a little Excel. Not needed since you have co2, but it has algicide properties as well.


Oh yeah, I've been dosing with API's CO2 booster (I think this is analogous to Excel) on the daily, and adding a little bit of Flourish every two or three days. Thanks for the tip, I guess this is information I should be posting. :confused1:

Brief question, I've heard that Flourish contains copper which can be fatal to shrimp. If that's true, what should I switch to instead and how long will it take the copper to work its way out of the tank? Is my tank just a shrimp death trap now?


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## kman (Dec 11, 2013)

I haven't heard people worry about using Flourish on shrimp tanks, so the copper content must be extremely low. Perhaps if you have an especially sensitive species? Maybe post in the Inverts forum where the shrimp experts hang out. But I have ghost shrimp in my tank, and I dose Flourish and Flourish Excel, and my shrimp are thriving.


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## kman (Dec 11, 2013)

Philosoraptor said:


> Oh yeah, I've been dosing with API's CO2 booster (I think this is analogous to Excel) on the daily, and adding a little bit of Flourish every two or three days. Thanks for the tip, I guess this is information I should be posting. :confused1:


Looks like API's CO2 Booster is also glutaraldehydesame as Excel, but a lower concentration, so you're paying for more water. I'd switch to Excel when you run out of the other. You can actually buy glutaraldehyde in bulk (gallon jugs) but it doesn't last forever so it's not really worth it if you're only dosing one small tank like yours. Great savings if you have a lot of big tanks, though.

If you get a syringe you can squirt a little of the glutaraldehyde directly on the algae that's giving you issues, and it should help kill it off.


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## Philosoraptor (Dec 26, 2013)

Cool, thanks for answering my questions. Definitely excited to get some shrimp in there, I'm thinking crystal black shrimp will look like little cows on my mountainside. :3 

Will definitely switch to Flourish and Excel as soon as I'm out of this one!


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## kman (Dec 11, 2013)

LOL love the idea of little jersey cow shrimp!


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## parrottbay (May 14, 2012)

Really enjoying this tank.


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## Philosoraptor (Dec 26, 2013)

parrottbay said:


> Really enjoying this tank.


Thanks man! Really kind words. I'm not going to lie, I saw your Iwagumi and went a little green with envy. :3


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## woodsjail. (Feb 3, 2014)

I really like the way you planted this tank, everything just seems to flow!


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## Philosoraptor (Dec 26, 2013)

woodsjail. said:


> I really like the way you planted this tank, everything just seems to flow!


Thank you! I spent a lot of times thinking about the lines of the rocks, the centers of interest I wanted to lead the eye to and how I could use light and dark plants to create interesting visuals. Still battling algae!


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## pirayaman (Mar 30, 2008)

Start trimming the hc soon as its starts growing so its stays low and spreads faster. 

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## Philosoraptor (Dec 26, 2013)

Added an otocinclus and two ghost shrimp! Also made the first major mistake of the thread. I tried to decant some of the water from the bag into the sink, and the tiniest little ghost shrimp just went down the drain.


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## kman (Dec 11, 2013)

Philosoraptor said:


> Added an otocinclus and two ghost shrimp! Also made the first major mistake of the thread. I tried to decant some of the water from the bag into the sink, and the tiniest little ghost shrimp just went down the drain.


Doh! Yup, always decant into an intermediary container first. (same as with vacuuming) At least it was a ghost shrimp, cheap and easy to replace, and not something rare or expensive! They're often considered feeders anyway. Still, sorry for your loss, that must have been a wrenching moment.


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## Philosoraptor (Dec 26, 2013)

kman said:


> Doh! Yup, always decant into an intermediary container first. (same as with vacuuming) At least it was a ghost shrimp, cheap and easy to replace, and not something rare or expensive! They're often considered feeders anyway. Still, sorry for your loss, that must have been a wrenching moment.


Yeah, not that big of a deal. I've got a bag of shrimp that I'm eating in the fridge, so I can't feel too bad about it. But still, definitely was a moment when I asked myself if I was _really_ that dumb, and the answer is yup! :biggrin:


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## Dan Knowlton (Jan 9, 2009)

kman said:


> If you get a syringe you can squirt a little of the glutaraldehyde directly on the algae that's giving you issues, and it should help kill it off.


I got a syringe and then added some airline tubing to the end. I can place the Excel exactly where I want it with that setup. 

Dan K.


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## kman (Dec 11, 2013)

Dan Knowlton said:


> I got a syringe and then added some airline tubing to the end. I can place the Excel exactly where I want it with that setup.


Clever! Of course, you could probably also just stick your whole hand into the tank with the syringe and squirt it directly, but I can see how that could be handy for any hard-to-reach places, like under branches and such.


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## Philosoraptor (Dec 26, 2013)

Well, one of the ghost shrimp seems pretty unhealthy. He's upside down and basically immobile. I can't figure out why, all day he's been eating and hanging out. The other ghost shrimp seems fine. The Otocinclus seems inactive with reddish gills. Ammonia, nitrite and nitrate are all at zero, and I continue to do my 40% or so water change every day. Any ideas guys?


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## kman (Dec 11, 2013)

Not offhand. I have seen enough reports like this, however, to conclude that sometimes shrimp just die. Water params are fine, other shrimp are fine, just one random shrimp not making it? I'd lean towards blaming the shrimp. Although you only have one healthy one, so could be (a) one randomly unhealthy shrimp and one normal one, OR (b) one unusually robust one, and one normal one that is succumbing to something off in the tank. Hard to know which without more data, which isn't going to be easy to get.

I'd just pick up a couple more (or even 3... 5 is nowhere too many for a 5 gal tank) and see if they do better second round.


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## Philosoraptor (Dec 26, 2013)

Thanks Kman. To be honest, I don't want to add many ghost shrimp, they were just kind of there as 'testers' to see if it would be worthwhile to invest in some more expensive shrimp. I've had good luck with alphaprobreeders, and will probably invest in these guys:

http://www.alphaprobreeders.com/crystal-black-shrimp-8-sale-59-00/

Very reassuring to know that it probably wasn't anything I did wrong. I think the Oto is just nocturnal, he seems to be puttering around fine now, and looks like he's munching a fair bit of algae, though it does worry me that he's skinny.


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## kman (Dec 11, 2013)

Oooh, pretty, but spendy. 

I'd make sure everything is 100% before investing that much in fancy shrimp. $1 seems a worthwhile investment, doesn't it? (at my LFS ghost shrimp are 3 for a buck)


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## Philosoraptor (Dec 26, 2013)

kman said:


> Oooh, pretty, but spendy.
> 
> I'd make sure everything is 100% before investing that much in fancy shrimp. $1 seems a worthwhile investment, doesn't it? (at my LFS ghost shrimp are 3 for a buck)


Ha, yeah, that's my plan. Ghost shrimp over here are pretty expensive though. 39 cents! I suppose once everything's set up, I can remove a few of the ghosties.


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## kman (Dec 11, 2013)

Philosoraptor said:


> Ha, yeah, that's my plan. Ghost shrimp over here are pretty expensive though. 39 cents! I suppose once everything's set up, I can remove a few of the ghosties.


Find a fellow aquarist nearby with rams or cichlids and offer them a tasty snack when you're done with 'em.


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## Philosoraptor (Dec 26, 2013)

kman said:


> Find a fellow aquarist nearby with rams or cichlids and offer them a tasty snack when you're done with 'em.


I was just going to flush 'em down the sink . Hey Kman, I've been doing some reading and it sounds like oto's are a bit social. Would I be able to do 7 celestial pearl danio and 2-3 oto's instead of my plan for 10 CPDs?


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## kman (Dec 11, 2013)

Philosoraptor said:


> I was just going to flush 'em down the sink . Hey Kman, I've been doing some reading and it sounds like oto's are a bit social. Would I be able to do 7 celestial pearl danio and 2-3 oto's instead of my plan for 10 CPDs?


I've heard that, too, so probably a good idea to give your oto a friend or two to be social with. Not sure about that many danios (as well), that might be pushing how much stock a 5 gal tank can support. Maybe 5 danios max, plus another oto? Then see how they do for a few weeks before you think about adding more.


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## Philosoraptor (Dec 26, 2013)

kman said:


> I've heard that, too, so probably a good idea to give your oto a friend or two to be social with. Not sure about that many danios (as well), that might be pushing how much stock a 5 gal tank can support. Maybe 5 danios max, plus another oto? Then see how they do for a few weeks before you think about adding more.


Oh, yeah, I wasn't going to just dump in seven right away. I was thinking, like you said, 5 at first, add more later if able. I'm thinking that the Otos will be temporary residents, like the ghost snails (they will be going in my buddies 55 gallon once I have the algae under control).


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## Philosoraptor (Dec 26, 2013)

Added two otocinclus and four more ghost shrimp for a total of 3 oto's and 5 ghost shrimp. Will hold off a week or two before adding anymore critters, while carefully monitoring water parameters. Didn't lose any in the sink today. Yay for basic pouring competency.


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## Philosoraptor (Dec 26, 2013)

Update!

Got some fish in there, LFS never got in the CPDs, so I went with some cheap rasbora from petsmart. 










HC is spreading pretty well, and the algae is settling down. Pretty happy with how this came out. :]


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## mistuhmarc (Oct 1, 2013)

You should get some light in the corners  I like the look of the spot light, but the hair grass on the sides aren't getting light!


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## AquaAurora (Jul 10, 2013)

mistuhmarc said:


> You should get some light in the corners  I like the look of the spot light, but the hair grass on the sides aren't getting light!


Agree, either raise your existing light so it shines on the whole tank or get some extra lights to brighten up everything in there.


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## Philosoraptor (Dec 26, 2013)

Done, light has been raised a few inches! Thanks guys.


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## Picobox (Jan 27, 2015)

Very nice job!!! Just got a spec V and not very happy about the lights. Wanting to upgrade to leds that's can actually grow a HC carpet. Any suggestions would be a big help. Hiw do you like the leds you are running? I did see the following which looks amazing but wanted some input before I make a move, its the UltraBrite Spec Led upgrade. Also any input on improving the water flow. Thanks in advance 


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fluval-Spec...082?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c4d2b239a


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## kman (Dec 11, 2013)

Picobox said:


> Very nice job!!! Just got a spec V and not very happy about the lights. Wanting to upgrade to leds that's can actually grow a HC carpet. Any suggestions would be a big help. Hiw do you like the leds you are running? I did see the following which looks amazing but wanted some input before I make a move, its the UltraBrite Spec Led upgrade. Also any input on improving the water flow. Thanks in advance
> 
> 
> http://www.no ebay links allowedcom...082?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c4d2b239a


Current USA Sat+ 18" should work nicely.

No eBay links allowed here, system automatically changes them.


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## dru (Mar 9, 2013)

Mini jet 606 to improve the flow


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## kman (Dec 11, 2013)

dru said:


> Mini jet 606 to improve the flow


_ Improve_ the flow? Most people seem to want a way to further lower the flow beyond what the adjustment slider will do, especially if they're keeping bettas.

Stock pump on high puts out way more flow than most fish would be happy about.


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## dru (Mar 9, 2013)

Picobox said:


> Very nice job!!! Just got a spec V and not very happy about the lights. Wanting to upgrade to leds that's can actually grow a HC carpet. Any suggestions would be a big help. Hiw do you like the leds you are running? I did see the following which looks amazing but wanted some input before I make a move, its the UltraBrite Spec Led upgrade. *Also any input on improving the water flow.* Thanks in advance





kman said:


> _ Improve_ the flow?


Yes improve the flow


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## kman (Dec 11, 2013)

dru said:


> Yes improve the flow


Wow. I guess you never know what people are going to put in their tank. There are some high-flow critters out there, to be sure.


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## dru (Mar 9, 2013)

I upgraded mine because my Fluval one burned out and the mini-jet was cheaper than getting another stock one

For Spec reefs it is a common mod

The flow is nice but I don't keep any fish


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## Picobox (Jan 27, 2015)

Thanks for all the feedback. I could be wrong about the flow just looks like it could use more. The flow can wait, plan on making a decision on the leds this weekend. Thanks for all the feedback, I'll keep you guys updated. BTW here is a picture of the tank running the UltraBrite Fluval spec led system listed on eBay, I like it cause it keeps the original look if the spec.


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## kman (Dec 11, 2013)

^^ Nice! Those plants are ... real, right? They look a bit plasticy.

Anyone else hearing the theme to 2001 Space Odyssey in your head? 

Pico, you should probably start a tank journal, though, and let Philosoraptor have his tank journal back.


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## Picobox (Jan 27, 2015)

Sorry about that, new to this stuff. I' llstart a new thread. Thanks again guys.


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