# 180G Drilled Riparium - The F0 Silver Dollar Project



## MissileBear (Aug 6, 2013)

I've been unable to take pics of the scape during the day due to all the reflection. Here are a few shots of the tank inhabitants begging for food.


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## jmf3460 (Aug 21, 2013)

what happens if you need to go out that door....


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## MissileBear (Aug 6, 2013)

jmf3460 said:


> what happens if you need to go out that door....


I just slide the tank over.


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## dpod (Sep 16, 2014)

MissileBear said:


> I just slide the tank over.


*snort* hahaha :hihi:

On the other hand, that's a bunch of beautiful fish! Seems like a great tank, but a lot of work to set up something temporary. Any plans for when all the fish move to their new home?


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## MissileBear (Aug 6, 2013)

Lots of plans. Nothing set in stone. I would really like to do a 10' acrylic, but will have to see what space will allow. I would like to double the school however I cannot see doing this with anything smaller than ~350 gallons.


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Wow, this is a cool setup. You put together some nice equipment. Cool fish too!

How are those plants doing? Are they establishing well?


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## MissileBear (Aug 6, 2013)

Most of the plants are doing well; some are still struggling to become established. The Asclepias curassavica has mostly died off.

I am waiting for a large shipment of Crypts and Anubias, as well as additional Manzanita and a large group of Bromeliad & Tillandsia sp. I am not completely done with the scape yet, but you get the idea.


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## MissileBear (Aug 6, 2013)

Update: I wanted something that would grow well on the driftwood coming out of the tank; I picked up some Tillandsia varieties to try. Hoping to get some color out of some of these once they are under some higher light. 16 different sp and an unpictured Neoregelia 'Fireball'.

Here is a very poor quality picture from my cell. I will get better pics in a few days.


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## HybridHerp (May 24, 2012)

Man, I love silver dollars, this tank is going to be fun as it grows up!


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

A few things:

Try emergent penny wort. Works well along the back edge. 
Moss(Xmas etc) on the emergent wood= planting sediment)
Ken's algae wafers and sticks, they will gnaw of those for awhile and will prefer them over time. 

I use the wafers which last longer than the sticks for flag tailed Prochilodus.
They leave the plants alone.


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## trailsnale (Dec 2, 2009)

hi mb,

i have been using a ranco controller for about 5ish years. i have the probe submersed in my sump, unaware there was any issue in doing so. yours are the first comments i've read re the potential probe issue

could you show a pic of your 'ss thermowell?' a faulty controller is not what i was looking for, lol!

thanks,


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Romaine hearts are also good. 

Keep those NuClear filters clean, the pressure will build and the flow rates drop quite a bit. Tank would likely have been better to use a wet/dry and then have the nuclear's for the return post filter. I have a tank for a client like this. So you could keep 1 of the existing Nu Clear's as is, then add a sump and use the intake for the return from the pump, then to the nu Clear, then to the tank. This should provide about 1-2 ppm more O2 and a more stable O2. 

Better for the fish, which seems to be the 1st priority. 

You'd still get excellent filtering, but also massive bio and excellent O2. 

Adding some current could also help and a be an easier way to do this, a used Vortech MP40 etc. Lazy fish need to swim against some current, they behave better and eat better.


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## MissileBear (Aug 6, 2013)

HybridHerp said:


> Man, I love silver dollars, this tank is going to be fun as it grows up!


It is a lot of fun; these fish all have a personality. They are pretty derpy.



trailsnale said:


> i have been using a ranco controller for about 5ish years. i have the probe submersed in my sump, unaware there was any issue in doing so. yours are the first comments i've read re the potential probe issue
> 
> could you show a pic of your 'ss thermowell?' a faulty controller is not what i was looking for, lol!


If you still have the Ranco manual, it lists the probe as not submersible (the similar Johnson Controls 419) . I have a few extra SS thermowells at home....I'll take a pic of one tonight as well as a close up of how it is plumbed in the tank.



plantbrain said:


> Romaine hearts are also good.
> 
> Keep those NuClear filters clean, the pressure will build and the flow rates drop quite a bit. Tank would likely have been better to use a wet/dry and then have the nuclear's for the return post filter. I have a tank for a client like this. So you could keep 1 of the existing Nu Clear's as is, then add a sump and use the intake for the return from the pump, then to the nu Clear, then to the tank. This should provide about 1-2 ppm more O2 and a more stable O2.
> 
> ...


Tom,

Thanks for the suggestions. I've been eying a Vortech powerhead for a while; I think it may on the upcoming list of purchases.

I had originally wanted the wet/dry option, but wanted something more custom than I could make or buy pre-made. I added Ocean Clear polystrand pads in each canister to help increase bio-capacity in the cansiters, but have considered adding another stage/sump inline for additional bio-capacity. The canister option seemed ideal for CO2 injection as I watched Ruko battle high CO2 loss/CO2 dissolution swings due to his wet/dry sump. Still debating on the CO2 route.

Romaine lettuce is very popular with the Tigers in the tank.


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## MissileBear (Aug 6, 2013)

Trailsnale- Pic of the thermowell plumbed into my system. The thermowell is threaded into a PVC tee. I use a Trane 4190-1108 thermowell; I picked up a lot of 10 on Ebay a while back. I still have to find a spring plug to keep the probe in place.


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## trailsnale (Dec 2, 2009)

mb, thanks for the pic! will do some shopping as i was totally unaware of this potential problem. i'm a big fan of the ranco (old school here, that's the only controller i use) and run it for 2 elements to heat a 265g/90 sump. 

build looks great!

thanks,


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## MissileBear (Aug 6, 2013)

Not sure if I will build this regulator for the 180 or for a different tank. So far the fish have not touched the crypts, Lagenandra, or Anubias. I have been gorging the fish and providing fresh lettuce as a deterrent and so far they have been mostly disinterested in the plants.


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## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

wanted to say from first post "I dig your build!"
Nice stocking,and seems to be going great!
I'm following!
I like to "re-do" my 180 every 5-7 years(getting closer?)


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## Raul-7 (Oct 17, 2003)

Really cool.

I second Tom's comments; I tried do a closed loop with all the bells and whistles - the amount of plumbing required, unions, all the modules you need for heater/chemical media, etc. makes it a PITA. Sump is much easier and can filter your water down to 1 micron if you desire [using filter socks].


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## MissileBear (Aug 6, 2013)

Coralbandit said:


> wanted to say from first post "I dig your build!"
> Nice stocking,and seems to be going great!
> I'm following!


Many thanks! It's always a journey.



Raul-7 said:


> Really cool.
> 
> I second Tom's comments; I tried do a closed loop with all the bells and whistles - the amount of plumbing required, unions, all the modules you need for heater/chemical media, etc. makes it a PITA. Sump is much easier and can filter your water down to 1 micron if you desire [using filter socks].


I have been somewhat quiet about some of the annoyances I've encountered with the closed loop system on a drilled tank. The biggest problems I have experienced are an inconsistent water level in the tank, and air being introduced into the system. I am very much leaning towards adding a small w/d sump to the system like Tom had recommended. 

More crypts are on the way; hoping to get some updated pics of progress this weekend.


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## aXio (May 29, 2011)

Awesome setup man.


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## MissileBear (Aug 6, 2013)

aXio said:


> Awesome setup man.


Thank you!

Update:

Received some more manzanita to fill in the scape a bit. I pulled out some of the smaller branchy stuff for putting above the tank (need room for tillies and such). I have also planted about 100 crypts in the tank. These mostly melted but are sending up new growth.

I will post some poor quality cell phone pics later (the SLR is on loan).


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## MissileBear (Aug 6, 2013)

*update*

The crypts have started to fill in. I have added a few Nana 'Petite" from my emersed tank and am trying to root them to the wood. I may as well had tied lettuce to the wood before- this attempt has been a bit more successful. Crypt retrospiralis, Vallisneria spiralis, and Shinnersia rivularis have been planted along the back and have all starting to spread out. These have all been mostly ignored by the fish which makes me a very happy man. ^_^

I planted roughly 200 c. blassii, c. pygmaea, c. parva, c. becketii, c. undulata, and c. wendtii green gecko/red/green. Some unknowns have started to pop up; I'm pretty sure there are Wendtii "Florida Sunset", c. Nurii, c. Cordata(?), c. Affinis, and some DHG growing that I did not introduce. I have c. Pontederiifolia, c. Affinis "Metallic Red", c. Noritoi, c. Zukalii, c. hudoroi, and c. Bullosa that I am also introducing to the tank within a few weeks.

The riparium plants have been removed only temporarily; I discovered Scale insect on a bunch of plants and am currently treating everything elsewhere. 

More news coming soon; making some big equipment changes


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## denske (Feb 20, 2013)

Looks awesome Philip, looking forward to seeing it finished.


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## andrewss (Oct 17, 2012)

excellent tank! I really like it


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## lamiskool (Jul 1, 2011)

Beautiful tank!


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## Siddhartha Saive (Nov 21, 2013)

Good job with the tank. Looks great.

Like Tom says I suggest you get a sump too. It would make things so much better and easier to maintain. 
The biggest problem for you will be water evaporation and topoff. The amount of reserve water in your overflow chamber is not nearly enough before it evaporates and you start pumping air into the tank.

Get a sump as big as you can fit and make sure the chamber for the return pump is big. This will decide how often you would have to top off.


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## PhysicsDude55 (Oct 24, 2011)

Awesome tank! Love the silver dollars. Really nice to see a large tank with large fish that's well landscaped and planted. Too many people buy "monster fish" and put them in bare or undecorated tanks. 

Is there a cover on the top of the tank?


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## limz_777 (Jun 29, 2005)

PhysicsDude55 said:


> Awesome tank! Love the silver dollars. Really nice to see a large tank with large fish that's well landscape and planted. Too many people buy "monster fish" and put them in bare or undecorated tanks.
> 
> Is there a cover on the top of the tank?


not really , seen many P's tank thats planted , btw SDs are not consider monster fish , if it grows above 3 feet then its consider a monster


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## BoxxerBoyDrew (Oct 16, 2005)

WOW Bear!

Your tank is coming along GREAT!!! It is down right AWESOME!!! Having African Cichlids for 20+ years I can tell you wet/drys make a huge difference when it comes to big eaters like the silver dollars are, like africans too. The canisters you have are AWESOME, but the W/D will do exactly what Tom said and help you and your fish out BIG TIME, so if that is the big changes you have written about you will never look back once you have done it! 

Man I really like the way you used the thermowells too! Very good idea!!! You sure set up the equipment in your stand like a pro!!!! BRAVO!!! Very safe and you plan every thing so you can get to it! You must have done this a time or two! My wife thinks I am nutz when I start measuring and clamping fittings up under the stand! She says" No one but you will see that!", But We know why!!!! LOL 

Anywho, What happened to the other fish that were in the tank? I really liked the multi-striped silvers! (sorry I don't know which ones they are!)

Keep up the AWESOME WORK!!! Subscribed!
Drew


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## MissileBear (Aug 6, 2013)

Thanks all. I'm pretty happy with the way it has come along.

I already have drawn out the design for a custom W/D sump for this setup and submitted them to an acylic builder. This tank originally had a sump - after 1 week of run time I had decided to add a sump eventually. I'll post more details once that all comes together. Aside from the issues with water level with the closed system I have plans for an automated water change, top off, and dosing system. I need a sump to be able to do this effectively. The canisters will still be used, albeit inline after the sump.

There are still 3 striped silver dollars (Metynnis Fasciatus) in the tank; I had to pull one of the males recently and move him to a separate holding tank for the time being. He was attempting to breed with another male Schomburkii non stop for over a month....so much so that the Schomburkii has suffered sores, fin damage, and eye injuries from the constant "shimmy" attacks. I'm awaiting to get more of tigers brought in and hope that some additional females will change the behavior. If not, I'm open for trades before I make him into a very expensive fish sandwich.

The tank is not covered and I find that these fish rarely go to the surface. I had originally planned on covering the tank with acrylic, cut to accommodate the wood coming from the water but this has been unneeded so far.

And limz77 - I would argue that a 20" Dovii is plenty monster 

Another quick update:

All the parts are in for my new riparium planters. I will be using AquaClear 110/500 filter bodies plumbed together with individual ball valves to decrease flow as needed. The system will be fed with water from the return pumps. Each body will be filled with hydroton. This eliminates the issues I had with suction cups and completely removes the planters from within the tank. I will have updates on this as well.



Stay tuned!


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## MissileBear (Aug 6, 2013)

*update*

Stock has changed again - two of the tigers were removed as they were both attempting to mate with the same thin bar. A group of 7 Dicrossus filamentosus were added, as well as a few L183 white seams. The tank dynamic has improved quite a bit.

I finally ordered a Vortech MP40QD after battling other various powerheads. It arrived today, however I am disappointed to say it was defective out of the box (only 1 of the 3 buttons on the unit worked correctly). Now waiting for an RMA to be approved. Bummer that my first dealing with Ecotech has been a negative due to a complete failure/lack of QA. I did not even have to plug the unit in to tell that the buttons were faulty.



More to come.


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## denske (Feb 20, 2013)

I have a few mp10's and trust me youll love the mp40 Philip


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## MissileBear (Aug 6, 2013)

denske said:


> I have a few mp10's and trust me you'll love the mp40 Philip


I hope so...I'm really not thrilled right now. Ecotech handles all warranty issues, so the original vendor would not replace the unit and gave me the number for Ecotech. After speaking with them, Ecotech is sending me a replacement plastic housing for for the driver with hopes it will fix the issue. I'm told I'll need to disassemble, swap all the parts from the old housing to the new housing, reassemble, and retest. I haven't taken the unit apart yet to see where the damage is. Frankly, I don't feel I should have to. If the new housing doesn't fix the problem, the tech told me to call back and they will send something else.

I wouldn't have such a problem with repairing the unit if it were used....but this thing is brand new. For the price I would expect some quality control. Already considering swapping it for a Gyre.


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## MissileBear (Aug 6, 2013)

*update*

The powerhead driver was disassembled, parts swapped, and reassembled. While I cannot see any difference between the non functional housing and the new one, things are now working as expected. I am still playing with the settings but I am initially impressed with the performance of the MP40. It is also quieter than my Blueline pumps.

Updated pictures to come.


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## limz_777 (Jun 29, 2005)

no doubt about the wolf cichild , do you have one in there ? this fish i heard just doesnt do well with tank mates , btw i think you should try the gyre , would be nice to see the plants sway


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## MissileBear (Aug 6, 2013)

It's been a while since I posted an update (about a year actually). A lot has happened in a year.

The tank has been moved from my previous apartment to the basement of my gf's house. I always love moving that 365 pound tank, especially around a 90* corner and down some steep, narrow stairs. Hopefully it will stay a while.

At some point I acquired some riparium plants infected with scale insect. The scale quickly infested the plants and decimated 90% of my stock. I am redoing the planter design and will be replanting within a few weeks with what is left. Two AC110s were added for extra filtration; I found that as the NuClear filter cartridges aged the permeability reduced significantly. I get 3 days of run time per filter cartridge before the water is reduced to a trickle. I am going back to a sump, which saddens me. I really like those canisters but I believe their place is for water polishing and not large scale filtration.

The stock has changed again; I have removed all the Sterbai cories, the Starlight plecos, and reintroduced the all the silver dollars back into this tank. Now that everyone has grown up a bit they all get along much better.

It's difficult to see how much wood is actually in the tank as the dense NLJF & Bolbitus canopy blocks out a lot of the light. I'm experimenting with LED backlight -it looks pretty cool, but I need to find a way to get lights in between the tank glass and felt background without being directly visible.

Lumber for the doors has been cut and will be finished when I have the time.

Anyways, some quickly snapped photos:


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## hazenight (Apr 12, 2013)

nice looking tank


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## AquaAurora (Jul 10, 2013)

Love the look, sorry you had issues with your riparium plants. I'd suggest getting some potassium permagnimate (cheap on e-bay-warning it will stain cloths/skin nice sinks-use a utility sink) and dipping all new plants, that or quarantine new plants for the riparium for a month away from the tank to monitor for infection/infestation.


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## MissileBear (Aug 6, 2013)

AquaAurora said:


> I'd suggest getting some potassium permagnimate (cheap on e-bay-warning it will stain cloths/skin nice sinks-use a utility sink) and dipping all new plants, that or quarantine new plants for the riparium for a month away from the tank to monitor for infection/infestation.


Unfortunately KMnO4 will not target adult scale insects due to the armored scales that this insect builds to protect itself. It might kill the eggs, but these have been really resistant to treatment as well. A oil based treatment has to be used (i.e. agricultural or dormancy oil), or multiple treatments of pyrethrin based insecticide to kill the insect & eggs. Pyrethrins are really toxic to fish, and the oil doesn't adhere to wet surfaces.

It's a real stubborn insect to eradicate. To go into a bit more detail, I removed all the infected plants to separate, quarantined containers and blasted them with several treatments of each. The treatments themselves seemed to kill a good percentage of the more fragile plants (all the Pileas, Alternatheras, Pandanus, Hydrocotyles, etc). Most of the surviving plants were cut down to the stem to remove as much of the infestation as possible, the visible scales manually removed, and the plants treated in quarantine bins over the course of several months.


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## AquaAurora (Jul 10, 2013)

Ah ok, didn't know that. I've not dealt with scale insects (fortunately no infestations except some pesky fruit flies (minor #s) I can never seem to get rid of). What about submerging plants completely in a bucket of water for 1+ hour to drown insects/get them to come off the plants then skim sruface with a fin mesh net to get the insects all out before taking plants out to dry?


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## MissileBear (Aug 6, 2013)

AquaAurora said:


> What about submerging plants completely in a bucket of water for 1+ hour to drown insects/get them to come off the plants then skim sruface with a fin mesh net to get the insects all out before taking plants out to dry?


That might work - the idea of an oil based treatment is to smother the insects. It's quite effective on terrestrial plants. I don't know how long you would have to submerge them.

Dug up some of the old pics of the riparium plants. Most were taken right before I realized that the infestation had already been established (you can see some yellowing and dropping of the leaves). I erroneously thought this was due to the decreased temp in the room.

Spathe on the C. fallax









Pink Rain Lily flower (might be one of the White Rain Lilies...they are pink when they first open up)









Some Rumex, common Anthurium, some Philodendron hybrids, two types of Ruellia, and S. cernua. All were lost in this planter except the lilies.









An earlier shot of the tank. You can see some leaf drop already occurring here :/


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## AquaAurora (Jul 10, 2013)

Lovely photos, real shame you lost so much of them :c


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## Jamo33 (Feb 18, 2014)

Such a cool tank and I love the whole progress and feel of this tank overall.
I thought some mosses growing up the drift wood would look amazing but even without it this is truly stunning! 
Pity about all the plants, but I am sure you will have them up and growing before long!

Love it mate,
Jamo


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## MissileBear (Aug 6, 2013)

Jamo33 said:


> Such a cool tank and I love the whole progress and feel of this tank overall.
> I thought some mosses growing up the drift wood would look amazing but even without it this is truly stunning!


I used to have a pretty good amount of Fissdens & Christmas moss growing on the branches, however the large P. nigrolineatus strips the moss to gnaw on the wood underneath.


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