# Auto water change for a shrimp rack?



## bostoneric (Sep 7, 2011)

so you want the auto top off water to be remineralized all the time and you are dosing GH/KH? I think you are asking for your parameters to be all kinds of crazy that way. you are better off using pure RO only.

I'm all for the idea its a cool concept, but I think its a bit unnecessary for shrimp. you are wasting a lot of water that you probably dont need to. 

how does the pump from the 5G auto top area know when to pump into the 29G area?


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## Pmart91 (May 15, 2014)

I think you misunderstood what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to do a 10% WATER CHANGE daily through a drip system. Look it up on you tube, it might make more sense. 

There shouldn't be really any topping off going on. The 24gal res would continuously be dripping water into each 20gal tank. In turn draining out as it drips into each tank. 

The dosing and the pump would both be on automatic timers where they would go off at the same time.

So in theory the RO unit would fill the smaller res(5gal). Get pumped into the larger res(24gal) and I'd only dose for the roughly 4 gallons being pumped into the 24gal res. No change in water parameters if done correctly. 

So to get even more elaborate haha. If I did 2 drops per second into each tank it works out to be about 4.5 gallons a day if my math is correct. So roughly 2.25gallons (roughly 10%) into each tank daily.


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## bostoneric (Sep 7, 2011)

10% daily is way too much to be changing. you will be changing the balance of the tank daily. many others will tell you stability is key and 10% daily is far from stability.

will i love the idea in theory, its best to leave the water alone.


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## Pmart91 (May 15, 2014)

So how often do you recommend doing a water change?

Only reason I wanted to try something like this is I've read the newer the water the better. So a 10% daily would help growth. Maybe that's false information. :/

And id only try this with neos. I know bees are way too sensitive to do anything like this.


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## shrimpzoo (Sep 27, 2011)

Pmart91 said:


> So how often do you recommend doing a water change?
> 
> Only reason I wanted to try something like this is I've read the newer the water the better. So a 10% daily would help growth. Maybe that's false information. :/
> 
> And id only try this with neos. I know bees are way too sensitive to do anything like this.


How often you do a water change depends on how big your tank is and what kind of filtration you have (as well as how often you feed and how many shrimps&plants you have).

Stable parameters is what you should aim for. You put that at risk when you introduce "new" water frequently. And no, 10% WC daily would not help growth (doesn't really make sense if you think about it).

You say bees are too sensitive to try this experiment on... I'd say this amount of "water-play" is too expensive for neos lol.


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## Pmart91 (May 15, 2014)

Well aside from feeling dumb. I'm glad i asked you guys. Thank you all for your input. I guess I was just taking recommendations from others who weren't giving me proper info. 

I think I'll just scrap the idea and just have fun with it. I was over thinking it quite a bit anyways I guess haha. 
Rolling with suggestions and just trying to come up with a new idea for water changes.


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## Julianzh (Jul 28, 2011)

but you can keep the idea and turn it into daily auto topoff if your tank water evaporate quickly each day. that's what i did. each day, the timer turned on for 30mins and drip ro water into the tank, drip very slowly. adjust the drip rate and timer and i dont have to worry about topping off haha im lazy


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## Pmart91 (May 15, 2014)

Haha nice... Ya I'm not home much so I was looking I to this for multiple reasons. Healthy shrimp, and me being a bit lazy as well.


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## bostoneric (Sep 7, 2011)

auto top off is a great thing when using RO. you just have to find some sort of middle ground between your idea and manually doing it. its impressive but not so great for shrimp. I have an auto top off system on my shrimp rack. It tops off about 2-3G a day depending on evap. but my water volume is close to 100G in my rack so thats a small % of top off. that shrimp rack has never had the water changed beyond the initial cycling stage.


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## Pmart91 (May 15, 2014)

That's where I'm a bit confused I guess. Some people say they've never done a water change on their shrimp tanks and they do great. Others have told me the more "new" water the better. 

Is it the ratio of waste produced by shrimp and the amount of plants people have in their tank that equals each other out. I know these little guys don't produce anything close to the average "fish" tank. So could you literally go without a water change indefinitely if you don't over populate the tank?


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## bostoneric (Sep 7, 2011)

its really dependent on your setup. I have a sump thats about 40% of the volume of the entire system and contains a large refugium stuffed with floaters and other plants to suck up nitrates. you have to monitor your water parameters these will tell you when you should be doing water changes. for me i have a hard time getting TDS above 120, it usually hovers around 100. my GH sticks @ 6 and my ph doesnt move from 6.2/3 
so i have no reason to be doing water changes.


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## Pmart91 (May 15, 2014)

I'm impressed... Can't believe I haven't thought about using a refugium. 

What type of floaters do you use if you don't mind me asking? Water lettuce,water hyacinths,ect? Seems like duck weed would be a horrible idea. End up clogging something haha. 

Have you ever experimented with which one uses more nitrates? 

Sorry I have so many questions... Just trying to learn from more experienced hobbyists.


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## bostoneric (Sep 7, 2011)

Happy to answer all your questions. My sump is stuff with red root floaters. its almost a thick hedge of them at this point. the root system is impressive and the leaf structures are actually about 1-2" thick at some points. I went with them because I like the look of them the best. there are many options. I also like their root system the most. it doesnt hang down more than a few inches unlike some others that will reach for the substrate.


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## levian (Apr 30, 2013)

I'd love to get some red root floaters, but can't find them anywhere where I live unfortunately. So I have to settle with duckweed for now. (Yes, I absolutely hate them, but I guess they do a terrific job at keeping my nitrate below 5 for months :icon_lol


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## Pmart91 (May 15, 2014)

Cool I'll look into those. 

Now from what I've read. Most people try to have roughly 3x their capacity or more in their flow rate from the sump. Is this what you do as well? Or do you have it lower since it's not a saltwater tank?


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## Pmart91 (May 15, 2014)

Plus I'm always worried about sucking up baby shrimp with a sump. What type of "guard" do you use for overflows?


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## shrimpo (Aug 2, 2009)

Pmart91 said:


> Plus I'm always worried about sucking up baby shrimp with a sump. What type of "guard" do you use for overflows?


You can use sponge filter, I just built a shrimp rack and all the tanks have sponge attached to the overflow. the whole system is connected to a sump, I used floating valve connected to water reservoir to take care of evaporation and keep the parameters stable.
I am running out of attachment space so I can't post pictures, here is the entire build if you are interested http://www.shrimpspot.com/index.php?/topic/1024-wire-shelves-shrimp-rack/


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## Pmart91 (May 15, 2014)

very nice. thank you for the tips.

how much flow do you have going to your tanks? it looks pretty low which is im guessing a good thing.


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## shrimpo (Aug 2, 2009)

Pmart91 said:


> very nice. thank you for the tips.
> 
> how much flow do you have going to your tanks? it looks pretty low which is im guessing a good thing.


 I started with steady dripping only but since I will need a heater in the sump when winter comes, I added more powerful pump that kept the water flowing instead of dripping to the top as well as in the sump by using a T adapter with valve, this will keep all the tanks warm and will increase the filtration process, kind of like slow moving stream.


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## Pmart91 (May 15, 2014)

Here is an update of the shrimp rack i want to eventually construct. Please let me know your thoughts.  

Im still debating on whether i should go cheaper and use 20L's or spend some more money and use 30B's instead for more of a footprint and more stable water. Does anyone have any personal experience with the pros and cons with using either size tanks?

Not sure if ill need this many heaters or filters either. Figured it wouldn't hurt to be safe about it. 

Im also going to put floaters in the refugium to help pull nitrates. Adding them just made the blueprint look confusing. Thanks again for the idea bostoneric!!!


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## bostoneric (Sep 7, 2011)

looks good but I'd be scared of the float valve breaking and your entire reservoir dumping into your sump and over flowing. you are trusting a $2 part. 
I keep my reservoir of RO water next to my sump and use a trusted auto top off system.


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## Pmart91 (May 15, 2014)

bostoneric said:


> looks good but I'd be scared of the float valve breaking and your entire reservoir dumping into your sump and over flowing. you are trusting a $2 part.
> I keep my reservoir of RO water next to my sump and use a trusted auto top off system.



Excuse my ignorance but what do you mean by a "trusted auto top off"? You yourself topping it off ha?


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## bostoneric (Sep 7, 2011)

Tunze Osmolator Nano 
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/tunze-osmolator-nano-3152-auto-top-off.html

No need for its bigger brother that has dual sensors because you'll be using it in a place where snails wont block it or salt creep with clog it up.


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## shrimpo (Aug 2, 2009)

I agree with bosoneric not to use cheap floating valve but electrical auto top offs are not 100% safe either, any defective sensor/relay can cause the pump to run continuously.
The floating valve I am using is heavy duty and designed for pond use as well, been using it for years when I had reef tanks, if you can get the electrical auto to off mentioned above, go for it but make sure nothing get to the water level sensor.


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## bostoneric (Sep 7, 2011)

the tunze ATO are known for being ultra reliable in the SW world and there so many more ways for it to fail there. in a freshwater sump you are good to go. if you want the big brother to the nano it has 2 sensors so even less likely to fail. 
even if the float fails in the on position they still dont stay on for more than the default timer built into them and they set off an alarm to tell you something is wrong. so at the most you get a couple extra cups of water and if you are toping off your sump you should have room for many gallons of extra water already.


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## Pmart91 (May 15, 2014)

Good to know thanks. Any tips on whether I should use a 20L vs a 30B?


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## shrimpo (Aug 2, 2009)

Pmart91 said:


> Good to know thanks. Any tips on whether I should use a 20L vs a 30B?


 I think 20L is easier to work with.


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## cjstl (Mar 4, 2013)

I wish I had space for 20L's. But my rack is only 26" long. I dream of someday filling it up with Mr. Aqua 13.3G Bowfronts, but for now I'm trying to build something similar with two 10's and a 15. Are you planning to drill your tanks? I'm hesitant to do that. Been looking at overflow boxes. Which then raises the question, would you plumb both overflow boxes to the sump with separate pumps to each tank, or would you plumb one pump to the top tank, have the overflow go into the second tank, and then that overflow to the sump?


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## Pmart91 (May 15, 2014)

Yes I plan on drilling the tanks. So my last update will still have a couple tweeks to it. 

So how you explained the drain and pump is dead on. Fill the top tank, have it drain into lower tank, then draining it into sump.


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## Little Soprano (Mar 13, 2014)

I do use a constant water change on my koi pond, but that is a lot easier then shrimp. I have it set to slow drip, at the top of the waterfall, and by the time it hits the rest of the pond the chlorine has gased off. You could possibly do it, but you have to plan it out, and it would be easier if it was just one tank.


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## cjstl (Mar 4, 2013)

Pmart91 said:


> Yes I plan on drilling the tanks. So my last update will still have a couple tweeks to it.
> 
> So how you explained the drain and pump is dead on. Fill the top tank, have it drain into lower tank, then draining it into sump.


Good luck on the drilling. I just decided to buy the Eshopps Nano Overflow Boxes. Found two for less than $100. I hate to spend the money, but like the idea of flexibility and being able to move the setup to different tanks if I choose to in the future. Now I need to work on my sump design


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## Ebi-san (Jul 16, 2014)

Pmart, clean water, the better, true..BUT the reason why many DON'T do water changes too often is because the way new water is coming in usually causes most shrimps to molt in trying to adjust to the water, and if they molt too early/too much in a short time, they can die. Like you said... If you can water change gradually with exact parameters... In a way that it doesn't affect them so much, keeping it STABLE as possible. 

Auto top-off is doable, I run an external reservoir that tops off everytime by dripping the water into the tank when evaporation occurs with sensors that will trigger when the water goes below it. It keeps it very stable and convenient. Keep in mind, many believe in topping with just pure water to keep GH in check, but disregard anything about REDOX and at some point you will need to renew calcium, minerals that have been oxidized, although some GH tests can be inaccurate in showing high GH when its actually lower in these cases.


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## Ebi-san (Jul 16, 2014)

Oh forgot to mention, the auto top off is from www.thefilterguys.biz great enthusiast in the SW world. It also comes with a back up sensor incase the first fails for some reason. Sumps are great! Although more practical for reefers.


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## Pwilly07 (Aug 3, 2018)

*Shrimp and Auto Water Change*

I too have a shrimp tank and want several more in the future. I am setting up a drip system for auto water changes after I move and was thinking of dripping in 0.5g-1g of new water per week to the shrimp tank that is a 20L. Would that be too much?


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