# Huge Hills with the substrate? HOW??(pic included)



## obet_07304 (Jul 23, 2006)

WOW!!! Those are nice scaping....


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## eon17 (Aug 30, 2007)

you could you like sheets of somthing stiff and just stick it in there


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## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

the challenge of these scape is falling substrate over time. as you can see substrate at the steepest hill is supported with those giant rocks. the not so steep substrate will fall but difference overtime is so small that we won't know. and once the plants covered the substrate's surface, roots will hold substrate from falling.

here's a link i learnt a lot from here...
http://www.cau-aqua.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=44&Itemid=40


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## JenThePlantGeek (Mar 27, 2006)

ADA Aquasoil is more "stackable" than most other substrates. You can pack it and form it into hills than tend to stay put fairly well. Once you get some roots established then they should stay up on their own as long as they're not too extreme.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

As Jen mentioned:
It's(ADA AS) clay, so it stays when you pack in slightly, also, using rocks/wood etc shores the sediment up.

You can do this with other sediments, but you have to keep tossing back upo where you want it.

also, you can grow in many species of plants such as HC without any water other than enough to soak the sediments well for 2-8 weeks first then after it's well grown in, add water and fish.

This is the Easiest method to start up a tank without dosing, water changes, any algae, completely cycled tank etc.

The first 2 months is the toughest and this avoids it all.
Just cover the tank, add light and sediment(ADA AS works great BTW and cost about the same most sediments, you can mist the plants if you use flourite black etc with a NPK and trace solution 2x a week otherwise)


Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## no_xqcs (Sep 6, 2007)

Thanks every one for answering, but you kind of misunderstood the question, or I wasn't specific.

I am not asking about the steepness of the hills, but rather how much substrate is used.

That looks to be over a foot of substrate in the back, is that just a combination of covered rocks and substrate, or some type of platforms to use less substrate?
I mean that would be extremely expensive unless it was top soil/kitty litter...

Sorry about not being so clear.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

It's not that much, ADA As is no more than Flourite and most other commercial sediments. You get 2x the volume for 2x the price basically with the 9 liter bags vs other brands.
Also, using rocks and drift wood displaces some of that volume as well.
Be clever to figure out cheaper methods to displace wasted volume


Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

so you can grow your plants without water? is there any plants or substrates that cant be used in this way? 
also is there any specific method to growing things in this way?
this seems like a brilliant idea!


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## no_xqcs (Sep 6, 2007)

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/g...ion/52332-new-method-start-up-algae-free.html
That is one of Tom Barr's posts on the emersed growth.

So I guess it would be practical to use something under the substrate to make it higher, not just all substrate. Clay pots, driftwood, rocks, cheap plastic containers, platforms...


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## iridescencet (Oct 13, 2007)

i don't think thats what tom meant or how amano styles his aquariums either. 

what both of them mean is that you use big rocks or wood to displace the soil. which can then be arranged together to form a higher slope. nonotherless if you want to acheive that high slope (of about a foot), you would still need to use more substrate.

but note that those big rocks are VERY heavy. and it would be a good idea to use some eggcrate below to support these rocks.


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## gotcheaprice (Aug 29, 2007)

Well, in his first post, that's what he meant to keep the substrate from falling.


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## iridescencet (Oct 13, 2007)

hmm. whatever suites you. i've tried it before with AS. if your going to stick stuff underneath, make sure it has the same gradient as the slope you want. i used a rock and all that happened after 2 months was the substrate sinking around the rock, making a lump instead of a gradual slope..


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## no_xqcs (Sep 6, 2007)

Well, i meant : do you have to spend $200 on substrate to get that much, or is there a way to displace it and not use as much?
(False floor?, rocks?, just soil?, ...
I only want to use ada as if I did that to my tank.


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## iridescencet (Oct 13, 2007)

don't put stuff underneath, because if you want to plant taller plants other than rosettes, you might hit whatever you used to displace the substrate.

but if you dont mind. its a cost effective way of raising the substrate.


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## AquaNerd (Dec 13, 2004)

Wouldn't you get stagnant gravel spots then on very deep gravel?


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## iridescencet (Oct 13, 2007)

depends what gravel or substrate you use. sand is probably not so suitable for such a thick layer, but as discussed AS will still be fine as its irregular shape and varrying sizes will allow enough water circulation.

Even if your worried, substrate heating cables will help solve that =)


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