# RODI and Equilibrium



## Coyne (Apr 12, 2014)

I'll be switching to an RODI system soon and am planning on using Seachem Equilibrium to reconstitute mineral content an stabilized pH. I'm shooting for a neutral pH and a GH of 5. 
Is this the right approach for a planted tank (w/ fish), or is there something I should be using instead (or in addition to)?
I'm still in the early stages of planning and setting things up, so flexibility is at its maximum right now.


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## Stacy1 (Dec 15, 2016)

Equilibrium worked great as far as hitting your numbers but I could Never get it to dissolve all the way. I always ended up with a brown sludge crap at the bottom of my barrel. If you're wanting to use a premixed mineralizer like that i was alot happier with Barr's gh booster. No sludge and worked great. Not sure how much water you'll be dealing with but alot of the shrimp keepers like salty shrimp brand. Ive never used it. Just a note though, none of those are going to give you any kh.


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## BluewaterBoof (Nov 7, 2015)

I use Salty Shrimp gH+ in my crystal shrimp tank. Works great. Nice and clean. Gets my gH up to 6 and my TDS sit right around 119ppm. Leaves my kH at zero and pH alone. Dissolves quickly.

Salty Shrimp also has a second product that raises the kH along with the gH.

If you get an active substrate, like AquaSoil or Red Bee sand, it will buffer your water and keep your pH low and stable without having to add carbonates/kH.


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

I also use salty shrimp gh+ for my CRS tank and it's awesome. Keeps the tds low and dissolves super fast. And leaves no sludge at all in my water container. I like to use an airstone and powerhead in the container keeping everything mixed well until I use the water. 


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## Coyne (Apr 12, 2014)

Cool... I'm seeing that Salty Shrimp brand is available via Amazon. It's good to have choices. Is the main Equilibrium complaint that it doesn't dissolve all of the way? 
I'll be injecting CO2 into this aquarium. Will I still need to get an additive to increase KH?


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

Coyne said:


> Cool... I'm seeing that Salty Shrimp brand is available via Amazon. It's good to have choices. Is the main Equilibrium complaint that it doesn't dissolve all of the way?
> 
> I'll be injecting CO2 into this aquarium. Will I still need to get an additive to increase KH?




What livestock will you be adding in this tank? And do you have a buffering substrate in it? 

If it's for shrimp and you have a buffering substrate you do not want to add kh as it will deplete the buffering substrate. If no buffering substrate you will want some kh to keep the ph stable. You can also get the salty shrimp GH/KH+. So it's raises gh:kh ratio of 2:1. So gh of 6 would give you KH of 3. This would be the route I would go. Are you planning on making this a shrimp tank? If so what kind? That matters with how you want the water parameters. 
Salty Shrimp Mineral GH/KH+ 200g https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HZLUGSI/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_3S.CzbKW411XR


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## Coyne (Apr 12, 2014)

Well... it seems I got mixed up and was thinking that GH was what stabilized pH. Glad I got corrected sooner rather than later.
I'm using ControSoil as my substrate. It's stuff that I purchased a while ago and never got around to using. It says it will lower pH and GH, so I'm guessing I'll need to add something for the KH to keep the whole thing from crashing.
I do plan on keeping shrimp (in addition to fish) and am heavily leaning toward a Neocaridina as they seem a bit more forgiving and this will be my first serious attempt at keeping shrimp.


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## BluewaterBoof (Nov 7, 2015)

Neos shouldn't be any trouble at all. I've had a couple of neo colonies in the hundreds using my tap which is 5*kH/7*gH, TDS of ~220ppm, and pH of 8.2.

How bad is your tap? You might not even really need to spend money on pricey mineralizers. Unless your tap is awful, just play around with different ratios of RO:tap and roll with that. $0.02


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## Coyne (Apr 12, 2014)

My tap water is the proverbial liquid rock. It's been a while since I've tested it, but if memory serves it was roughly: pH 8.6, high teens/low twenties for KH and GH, and TDS ~600-700.

I've considered trying to find that perfect RO:tap ratio, but thought it might be better to just mix in an additive for consistency's sake. My tentative plan is to get the water roughly where I want/need it to be, and then plant. Then I'll hook up the CO2 and get that dialed in while the plants are getting established; meanwhile keeping an eye out to see how pH/GH/KH are being affected.
Sounds like a good plan in my head, but this is my first attempt at a "high tech" planted tank so I'm sure I'll hit plenty of bumps along the way (i.e. confusing GH and KH). I'm not in any hurry and don't plan on adding any fauna until I get my water balanced the way I want.


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

Coyne said:


> My tap water is the proverbial liquid rock. It's been a while since I've tested it, but if memory serves it was roughly: pH 8.6, high teens/low twenties for KH and GH, and TDS ~600-700.
> 
> I've considered trying to find that perfect RO:tap ratio, but thought it might be better to just mix in an additive for consistency's sake. My tentative plan is to get the water roughly where I want/need it to be, and then plant. Then I'll hook up the CO2 and get that dialed in while the plants are getting established; meanwhile keeping an eye out to see how pH/GH/KH are being affected.
> Sounds like a good plan in my head, but this is my first attempt at a "high tech" planted tank so I'm sure I'll hit plenty of bumps along the way (i.e. confusing GH and KH). I'm not in any hurry and don't plan on adding any fauna until I get my water balanced the way I want.


When playing around with pure RO keep in mind the first 24 hours the PH can GREATLY fluctuate. This may have you scratching your head. This happens because there is 0 KH to stabilize and help buffer the PH. After about 24 hours or so it will equalize to the neutral of 7.0. Remember when you add KH you also add PH. What I like about the SS GH/KH+ from what I read is it raises the PH very little. You may get a ph of 7.2 with a GH of 6 and KH of 3. I use the SS GH+ with no KH because I use half tap and Half RO. This gives me the KH I need from TAP and therefore just need to add a few degrees of GH which I use the SS SH+ for. So I end up with a GH of 5 and a KH of 1.75 with my half tap half ro with a little SS added. This is enough to keep the PH stable therefore keeps from causing any ph swings even though I run 15ppm of co2. 

Just a thought of what you could do is add maybe 2 gallons out of 10 gallons tap. Then the rest RO and some SS GH+(no KH). You should have enough KH from the tap and will only need to remineralize a little bit(less than from pure ro). An easy way to do this is once you figure out the ratio of tap/ro that you want take a TDS reading. Then that way you know when you hit that "TDS" you know it should be the same GH/KH wise so you do not have to continue to take GH/KH tests but simply use your TDS meter. This is exactly what I do. I know that exactly a tds of 110 gets me a GH of 5 and a KH of 1.75 with my half tap half ro.

Also another thing I like to do when mixing my ro/tap with SS is I let my 15 gallon bin age by adding a powerhead and also airstone that continuously runs until I need the water. This does a couple things. It mixes the SS up really well. It also seems to help lower the PH down a bit and also aged water seems to be preferred especially for the more sensitive type species.


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## Coyne (Apr 12, 2014)

I'll have to double check once I set up my RODI system again, but I think it came out with a 7 pH and dropped lower after sitting for a day. Something else to take into consideration I suppose. 
I've gone ahead and ordered the SS GH/KH. I'll get the RODI set up in a few days. Maybe then I'll play around with ratios and see what I come up with. I've already got a power head and heater for my barrel, an air stone wouldn't be a bad idea.


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## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

Coyne said:


> I'm using ControSoil as my substrate.


If you plan to use controsoil, don't add any KH of any kind. You'll want to use RO only and add something like Salty GH+ (without KH). Don't worry about having no KH in this case as the substrate takes care of things for you.

Also, since you are already going through all that work and expense, you really should start off with some Crystal reds or taiwan bees. Neos will prefer harder water with higher pH than you can offer them with that substrate.


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## Coyne (Apr 12, 2014)

Ok.. I got my RODI system and water storage set up and filled up my 55 gallon barrel to the 50 gallon mark. I let it set for a couple days to let the pH level out and tonight I added in the Salty Shrimp GH/KH. I checked the water beforehand and had pH 6.2 w/TDS 0 (duh). According to my math, I added 36g of SS. I would not be offended if someone double checked that.
I let it mix with a pump and some air stones for a few hours and then checked again. The pH is now 7.9 w/TDS 170. 
That's a way bigger jump in pH than I was going for. I just calibrated my pH probe, so I'm assuming it's accurate. Did I add too much SS, or do I need to give it more time for the pH to stabilize?

On the subject of shrimp: I guess I'm a bit nervous about trying the more expensive shrimp. I've made half-assed attempts keeping Neos with limited success. Nothing is set in stone yet though. Perhaps some more research is in order. I'm looking for something in a yellow or orange.


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

If you are using Controsoil you should not be using any KH. You should get the Salty Shrimp GH+ only(without KH). By adding KH you are going to be raising the PH also. By just raising GH it will not raise the PH at all. You do not want to add KH because your Controsoil substrate will just bring it back to 0 and depleting the substrate faster. And everytime you do a water change and add more KH it will cause a ph swing and bring the KH and PH back down once you add the water to the tank. Its meant to keep the PH around 6.5 and KH 0. This is why I recommended to get the GH+ without the KH. 

with that TDS I am guessing you are at a GH of 6 and KH of 3 at least, maybe more. Not good for the soil.


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## Coyne (Apr 12, 2014)

Good thing the water is in a barrel and the substrate is still in bags. 
Im trying to get as many mistakes out of the way before it's too hard to correct them. My current phase is getting the right water mixed.
I must've gotten confused with the advice I was given about what kind of Salty Shrimp to get. The ControSoil says it lowers GH but didn't mention anything about affecting KH. I already have some Seachem Equilibrium, which is not supposed to add KH. The only downside seems to be that it's leaves a sludge behind if it doesn't mix all the way. Worst case scenario, I'll get the SS GH+ and start fresh with another batch of RO.
I'm still perplexed by the pH increase from 6.2 to 7.9 though. I guess I'll just check it again around the 24 hour mark and see where it's at. I still plan on using this water for PWCs on existing tanks to help migrate them over to the new system.


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## Highseq (Jul 26, 2017)

If you are planning on only keeping neos like red cherry shrimp and the like... you don't need half of the stuff you have. They are pretty hardy and you don't need RO water or active substrate. That being said, you can keep neos with this stuff and be A-ok. Regular tap water will usually have good enough parameters for these more hardy kinds of shrimp.

If you really want to take advantage of the RO and substrate, then crystal red shrimp and taiwan bee shrimp are what you are after. With these shrimp people almost exclusively use RO water because they wish to keep the kH at 0 or dang close. Active substrate is able to lower kH through ion exchange if I understand correctly. This keeps your pH acidic. Active substrate doesn't work miracles and cannot reduce kH drastically or for more than several months. When you have RO water your kH is already 0, active substrate just ensures it stays at 0. By adding kH buffer you will deplete the ion exchange capability of your substrate faster rendering it useless.

As for lowering GH... there is less information on this than there is about kH, but basically active substrate can sequester calcium ions (maybe Mg as well), which will lower your GH. Like I said this stuff doesn't work miracles which is why you can use a GH booster and not have your GH fall back to 0.

It is worth noting that a kH of 0 causes your ph to be unstable. So just be aware of that.

To address your question about your ph shooting up... I'm not sure what kind of buffer the salty shrimp GH/KH buffer uses or what your KH reading was after adding it, but lets say it is bicarbonate based. This will raise kH and buffer acids (like carbonic acid from dissolved CO2) in the water. Many say that adding sodium bicarbonate will raise kH with minimal effect on pH but this is not entirely true. It will stop raising your pH when you get to around 8.2 or so. Only then will you continue to get gains in KH with little change in pH. I think this misconception that baking soda will raise KH with little effect on pH is a misconception from people who keep reef tanks because in general their pH is already around 8. I think i got off topic.

Anyway in summary: shrimp are awesome.


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## sick1166 (May 8, 2017)

my equilibrium mixes great no sludge and my shrimp tank is 
ph7.0
gh 5
kh 2 its only 5 gallons using r/o water
i have looked at salty shrimp does it contain anything for shrimp that other buffers dont have"


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## Highseq (Jul 26, 2017)

sick1166 said:


> my equilibrium mixes great no sludge and my shrimp tank is
> ph7.0
> gh 5
> kh 2 its only 5 gallons using r/o water
> i have looked at salty shrimp does it contain anything for shrimp that other buffers dont have"


I'll assume you are referring to the SS buffer that raises gh and not gh/kh since equilibrium does not affect kh.
I don't know if the exact ingredients are listed or not. But as it is primarily used for raising gh I would suspect its mostly adding calcium and magnesium. Their website claims it contains all trace elements required for healthy shrimp but thats kind of vague. They are probably adding potassium or something. 

At any rate, it seems to be the standard for those who keep shrimp. It is also marketed towards shrimp while equilibrium is marketed more towards planted tanks. If there is a difference between equilibrium and SS, it probably is in the levels of potassium, iron, etc., present. Equilibrium has quite a bit of potassium in it.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

Stacy1 said:


> Equilibrium worked great as far as hitting your numbers but I could Never get it to dissolve all the way. I always ended up with a brown sludge crap at the bottom of my barrel. If you're wanting to use a premixed mineralizer like that i was alot happier with Barr's gh booster. No sludge and worked great. Not sure how much water you'll be dealing with but alot of the shrimp keepers like salty shrimp brand. Ive never used it. Just a note though, none of those are going to give you any kh.


Dont just dump the dry equilibrium into the tank. Mix it in with the tank change water. It will be suspended for a day (water will be a bit cloudy) until it dissolves.


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

With the salty shrimp gh(no kh) I have compared to other gh boosters and tds wise is lower and also dissolved much easier and faster. For tds to give you an example using nilocG gh booster when mixing with half tap and half ro and remineralizing with nilocG gh booster to get a gh of 5 and kh of 1.75(kh from tap) I would get a tds of 130. Now when doing half tap and half ro and again remineralizing but with salty shrimp gh+ with again a gh of 5 and kh 1.75 my tds was only 105. 

And I agree if you are going the route of remineralizing ro and keeping the soil you should get the salty shrimp gh+(no kh) and get some crystal reds or Taiwan bees. 


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Bump: Another thing to mention the reason is says that it lowers the GH well it does this temporarily while its charging the substrate. The purpose is then to feed the plants off of what you have fed the substrate for a couple/few weeks. During this time it will lower the GH as the substrate is soaking in the GH. After its full(Charged) The GH will then level out and stop going down. If you have hard water or add gh booster the higher the gh during this time the faster it will charge. So the length of time it takes to charge is completely to how hard the water is.


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## sick1166 (May 8, 2017)

is eco complete a inert or does it affect the ph or any water parameters


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## Highseq (Jul 26, 2017)

sick1166 said:


> is eco complete a inert or does it affect the ph or any water parameters


It might slightly affect the water at first due to mineral leeching (I'm not saying this happens but it could) but it doesn't offer a buffering capacity like the substrates talked about previously.


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## Coyne (Apr 12, 2014)

Thanks for sticking with me folks. I'm looking forward to someday enjoying the fruits of your labors.
I wanted to take a minute to clarify something in case it makes a difference in the advice/information I'm getting. While I am going to be keeping shrimp, this isn't going to be a "shrimp tank". I'm planning on a driftwood hardscape thats heavy planted with a large school (30-40) of a small red nano-fish like Ember Tetras, as well as some Pygmy Corys and/or Otis.
I'm just mentioning this because the water I end up with will need to accommodate the plants and fish, as well as the shrimp. If I can get water that does all this and still lets me keep crystal reds, that'd be great; if I need to bump up the pH for the fish and only keep Neos, that's ok too.


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## Highseq (Jul 26, 2017)

Coyne said:


> Thanks for sticking with me folks. I'm looking forward to someday enjoying the fruits of your labors.
> I wanted to take a minute to clarify something in case it makes a difference in the advice/information I'm getting. While I am going to be keeping shrimp, this isn't going to be a "shrimp tank". I'm planning on a driftwood hardscape thats heavy planted with a large school (30-40) of a small red nano-fish like Ember Tetras, as well as some Pygmy Corys and/or Otis.
> I'm just mentioning this because the water I end up with will need to accommodate the plants and fish, as well as the shrimp. If I can get water that does all this and still lets me keep crystal reds, that'd be great; if I need to bump up the pH for the fish and only keep Neos, that's ok too.


I think what you just described might be possible but it could be very very troublesome. Driftwood is going to release tannins that will lower the pH. With a kH of 0 this could cause bad pH swings although I'm not sure how low tannins could drive your pH. Also I'm not sure if you planned to add CO2 of some kind but that would probably make it near impossible to keep CRS happy and have great plant growing conditions.

I think it would be much easier to keep Neos with the goals you are describing. I'd probably grab a substrate more targeted for plants (High nutrient content), although to be honest I'm not sure how good controsoil is for plants, it could be fine. A higher KH tank is probably just going to be more universally good for all of the inhabitants.


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## aceranch (Dec 21, 2013)

I run straight RO and mix in EQ and baking soda. I've never had a problem with residue as long as I agitate the water when I mix. The baking soda does well at stabilizing my ph at 7.4 and kh at 4. Lately I've been experimenting with ryuoh stone in a bucket to determine if it could replace the baking soda.


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## Coyne (Apr 12, 2014)

Its been 24+ hours and the final results are in... pH is still at 7.9 (KH 3, FWIW). I knew increasing KH would increase pH, but didnt think it would take me from 6.2 to 7.9! Im so accustom to my tap water's rock solid, unmovable pH that Im having a hard time understanding whats going on with the aged RODI water.
I guess my next step will be to make a new batch with a non-KH increasing additive. I already have the Equilibrium, so Im leaning heavily towards that. Then, if I dont get more unexpected results, I'll add it to the aquarium along with the ControSoil and driftwood so that I can see if the end results fall within an acceptable range. Hopefully the substrate will have the buffering capacity youre saying it does. Then, if everything seems ok, I'll run the CO2 to 20ppm and test again. Id really like to get to 30ppm CO2, but I think between it and the driftwood Im already going to be pushing the lower end of my pH tolerance (if I havent already crashed below it)... but Im getting ahead of myself.

Another random point of mystery is the water temp in the barrel. Its at 78F and is shouldnt be any higher than 74F (what the heater is set at). Room temperature water is 73F, as a point of reference. Ive already unplugged the heater, and no change after 3-4 hours. I unplugged the circulation pump, and still no change after a few hours. I just now unplugged the air pump, so its wait and see. Nothing else to unplug now.


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## Surf (Jun 13, 2017)

> My tentative plan is to get the water roughly where I want/need it to be, and then plant. Then I'll hook up the CO2 and get that dialed in while the plants are getting established; meanwhile keeping an eye out to see how pH/GH/KH are being affected.


If your plan is to fuse 100% ro water you will also need too add a complete fertilizer. most fertilizers are deficient in Calcium, Nickel, Cobalt, and and Chlorine. Without these nutrients plants won't grow well in a 100% RO water tank. The GH booster will resolve the calcium deficiency and maybe the chlorine deficiency. Look at the ingredients list on the GH booster and look for chlorides. Shrimp and snails will also need iodine in the water. That may or may not be in your GH booster. If your tank doesn't have enough iodine the shrimp might not get enough iodine from there food and will eventually die. 

If your fertilizer doesn't include all the nutrients needed your plants will never do well and will either die or algae will overrun the tank. Unfortunately most fertilizers are missing several nutrients. I would suggest you look at getting Brightwell Aquatics Florinmulti. It also has iodine and and chlorine and sodium. The only nutrients it doesn't have are nitrate and phosphate. Typically most aquarium have enough of thee from fish food. However if you don't you will have to add some. If you don't get enough, add enough potassium nitrate to keep the nitrate level at or above 5ppm. For phosphate add potassium phosphate and keep the phosphate level at about 1ppm.


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## Highseq (Jul 26, 2017)

Surf said:


> Shrimp and snails will also need iodine in the water. That may or may not be in your GH booster. If your tank doesn't have enough iodine the shrimp might not get enough iodine from there food and will eventually die.


There is actually a lot of debate over this. Most people do it for SW shrimp. Many people don't add iodine and say their shrimp do just fine. @clownplanted do you personally add iodine? At any rate coyne you should do some research on that.


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## Coyne (Apr 12, 2014)

I'll be using the PPS-Pro method along with some DIY root tabs for fertilizer. This is the first time Ive heard of adding iodine and... chlorine?? I thought the chlorine thing was a typo at first, but its mentioned three times. I have Nerite snails in other tanks that have lived for quite a long time without the addition of iodine. If there is iodine in my tap water, that is news to me.


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## Highseq (Jul 26, 2017)

Coyne said:


> I'll be using the PPS-Pro method along with some DIY root tabs for fertilizer. This is the first time Ive heard of adding iodine and... chlorine?? I thought the chlorine thing was a typo at first, but its mentioned three times. I have Nerite snails in other tanks that have lived for quite a long time without the addition of iodine. If there is iodine in my tap water, that is news to me.


You probably don't need to worry about the iodine, I would wait for clownplanted's opinion. He is experienced with shrimp. As for the chlorine, it is actually in most micro nutrient supplements like flourish comprehensive. It is provided as elemental chloride though, from sources like potassium chloride. 

If your confused about why you remove it from tapwater here is why: Two types of Cl are present in treated water. First, water companies are able to inject relatively small amount of Cl2 (a gas) into the water. The half life of this is small, about 6 hours or so. Secondly: Chloramine. Chloramine is actually just chlorine and ammonia bonded. Your water conditioner actually removes both of these sources of chlorine into a salt using a couple different compounds. One of them is called Sodium Thiosulfate. 

Anyway, my point is, chlorine listed in your fert is not present in the same amount or in the same way as the chlorine content of your tap water. 

I hope that helps.


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

Highseq said:


> There is actually a lot of debate over this. Most people do it for SW shrimp. Many people don't add iodine and say their shrimp do just fine. @clownplanted do you personally add iodine? At any rate coyne you should do some research on that.


I have never heard of needing to add iodine for freshwater Shrimp. In fact I have a detailed water report and verified there is no iodine in my tap water and also my Salty Shrimp re-mineralizer does not contain any as well. In addition I use ThriveS from NilocG which I use for plant fertilizer and it contains zero iodine. So as far as I can tell there is no iodine in my water and my shrimp do absolutely fine and in fact do very well. I would say 4 berried out of a total of 20 CRS is a good sign of them doing well. @natemcnutty what is your thoughts on iodine?? He is the true CRS pro here.


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## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

clownplanted said:


> I have never heard of needing to add iodine for freshwater Shrimp. In fact I have a detailed water report and verified there is no iodine in my tap water and also my Salty Shrimp re-mineralizer does not contain any as well. In addition I use ThriveS from NilocG which I use for plant fertilizer and it contains zero iodine. So as far as I can tell there is no iodine in my water and my shrimp do absolutely fine and in fact do very well. I would say 4 berried out of a total of 20 CRS is a good sign of them doing well. @natemcnutty what is your thoughts on iodine?? He is the true CRS pro here.


Thanks for the vote of confidence, but I'm far from a pro and I'm sure others here have far more experience 

I have never used iodine, and everything I have read is that it is at least unnecessary if not harmful. I think it's a carryover from salt water shrimp where people were adding it to match conditions of where their inverts came from.

The real problem is that everything I've seen shows they only get the iodine through their food, and the food source we provide isn't ingesting or saturated in minute concentrations of iodine. I hear the test kits are super unreliable, so it makes dosing or soaking food in a mixture difficult as well.

I think of it this way - what exactly are you trying to fix? If your shrimp aren't doing well, adding iodine is not likely to improve the situation. I've never heard of a breeder (or anyone for that matter) say they were having deaths that stopped after dosing iodine. It's always a water parameters issue (usually GH, temp, or nitrogen).

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## Surf (Jun 13, 2017)

> 'I have never heard of needing to add iodine for freshwater Shrimp. In fact I have a detailed water report and verified there is no iodine in my tap water and also my Salty Shrimp re-mineralizer does not contain any as well. In addition I use ThriveS from NilocG which I use for plant fertilizer and it contains zero iodine. So as far as I can tell there is no iodine in my water and my shrimp do absolutely fine and in fact do very well. I would say 4 berried out of a total of 20 CRS is a good sign of them doing well. @natemcnutty what is your thoughts on iodine?? He is the true CRS pro here."


 Iodine may only be present in parts per billion quantities. If a water report doesn't test below 0.1ppm it my not show any. Most utility water quality reports don't even test for it. If you are using tap water you likely have enough to prevent any iodine deficiency symptoms. However my experience with shrimp and 100% RO tells me Iodine deficiency can happen.

I personally did set up a 100% RO tank and while my plants were doing well my GH and KH were stable. I could however see my shrimp gradually becoming less active. Eventually it got to a point that they were hardly moving and not swimming and not feeding on the algae I had in the tank. The shrimp behavior was very similar to my dad's behavior when he doesn't have enough thyroid medication in his body. So I add a very small amount after verifying all my water perimeters were OK. Within a couple of hours they started to become more active and started swimming around occasionally. A recovery that fast is a strong indication an iodine deficiency was present.

Shrimp can also get iodine from food but since I had algae in the tank I didn't see the need to feed them. That probably resulted in what little iodine I had in the tank to gradually fall to a critical value and caused the shrimp to suffer.

with 100% RO water you have to expect the unexpected. I eventually got a hanna instruments Iodine checker with a resolution of 0.1ppm. I wanted to know if I was adding too much and wanted to monitor the levels. I don't know of any meter that would read less than that. About 60% of the time it registers 0ppm. When it did register iodine it was only at 0.1ppm. even though I was adding iodine at every water change.


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## KrypleBerry (May 23, 2017)

I use R.O. water with equilibrium and add one drop kent iodide per 10 gallons fresh water for my shrimp and snails and noticed cleaner, healthier molts, more regular frequency of molting, more breeding activity, and activity in general. I dosed iodide in my reefs for the invertebrates as well as my marine plants. Iodide/iodine is a critical element for general cellular function, and aids the transfer of nutrients within cells. Larger creatures require it for proper thyroid function, hormone production and regulation of their metabolism. For corals its utilized to regulate pigment to help adapt the coral to varied lighting conditions and to protect the colony from U.V. exposure. Shrimp utilize iodide to build their exoskeleton, and to aid in the molting process. Now, heres an interesting bit. Like coral, plants utilize iodide as well, and a heavily planted high tech tank may use more than you think. 
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4993787/
Food for thought. Used appropriately it will do no harm and can infact help your inverts and plants.


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

Dosing iodine in Marine tanks is one thing and COMPLETELY different in freshwater. There is absolutely no proof that freshwater inverts can and do uptake iodine whatsoever from the water column and can EASILY overdose iodine which is much more deadly than not having any in the first place. Researching this further the algae that grows naturally in the tank provides more than enough iodine that would ever be needed for the freshwater inverts. Again there could be other things at play that by adding iodine to the water column that you notice better health but unless in a controlled study there is no way you directly prove that the iodine dosing in itself was the reason for this. There could of been many other factors that contributed to this that just were not noticed. One thing to consider that iodine is an irritant and it is the irritation that forces the molting, much like many " slimecoat" products for fish irritate the fish and lead to more slimecoat production. So its most likely due to this which is what was causing the more frequent moltings.

Ill stick with adding zero iodine in my CRS tank that is absolutely thriving and in fact about to have a 5th berried female.


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## KrypleBerry (May 23, 2017)

clownplanted said:


> Dosing iodine in Marine tanks is one thing and COMPLETELY different in freshwater. There is absolutely no proof that freshwater inverts can and do uptake iodine whatsoever from the water column and can EASILY overdose iodine which is much more deadly than not having any in the first place. Researching this further the algae that grows naturally in the tank provides more than enough iodine that would ever be needed for the freshwater inverts. Again there could be other things at play that by adding iodine to the water column that you notice better health but unless in a controlled study there is no way you directly prove that the iodine dosing in itself was the reason for this. There could of been many other factors that contributed to this that just were not noticed. One thing to consider that iodine is an irritant and it is the irritation that forces the molting, much like many " slimecoat" products for fish irritate the fish and lead to more slimecoat production. So its most likely due to this which is what was causing the more frequent moltings.
> 
> Ill stick with adding zero iodine in my CRS tank that is absolutely thriving and in fact about to have a 5th berried female.


I believe you missed my point of how plants and algae use up available iodine in the water. According to you algae provides enough for the shrimp eating said algae to get their needs met. What happens when said supply of iodine is depleted by algae and plants? Further more if feeding any shrimp specific foods, most contain iodide/iodate for the very reasons I mentioned rendering your non dosing schedule meaningless becsuse you are in fact dosing iodine/iodide/iodate to replace what has been used in your system though their feed. Is the food enough? It very well could be, depending on your system, planting levels, algae growth etc. I also dose my tank by 10x less than a marine aquarium keeping in mind that my feeshwater uses it at a slower rate.


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## Coyne (Apr 12, 2014)

This seems shrimp specific. Maybe a conversation for the shrimp and inverts section?


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## KrypleBerry (May 23, 2017)

Coyne said:


> This seems shrimp specific. Maybe a conversation for the shrimp and inverts section?


 it has an impact on shrimp but if you read the post fully and the previous link I posted it refers to iodide requirements for plants as well, something I never hear mentioned. Apologies if I derailed the thread a bit op.


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## Coyne (Apr 12, 2014)

I suppose what's in the water affects every thing that lives in the aquarium, but strictly speaking the thread wasn't about plant health either. 
I'm just trying to get through my first foray in using RODI water and find out how to get a low, stable pH with an optimum GH and KH.


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## KrypleBerry (May 23, 2017)

I use R.O. only and Equilibrium adding about 1.25 teaspoons per 5 gallons of R.O.water. running a very effective DIY co2 and my ph is consistently 6.4 according to my pinpoint ph meter, degassed is 7.3. My KH stays at 4, and my GH at 6. I do bi-weekly 30% water changes because I dose E.I. and my tank is stocked on the heavy side.


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## Coyne (Apr 12, 2014)

So you're doing RO, but not DI... is that right? I'm guessing that's where the KH 4 comes from. 
I'm still having a difficult time getting my head around the idea that I'm aiming for zero KH and that my substrate will somehow keep the pH stable. Next week I should have a new batch of RODI w/Equilibrium made up and get it in the tank with substrate and hardscape so that I can see where the numbers end up.


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

Coyne said:


> So you're doing RO, but not DI... is that right? I'm guessing that's where the KH 4 comes from.
> 
> I'm still having a difficult time getting my head around the idea that I'm aiming for zero KH and that my substrate will somehow keep the pH stable. Next week I should have a new batch of RODI w/Equilibrium made up and get it in the tank with substrate and hardscape so that I can see where the numbers end up.




That's the purpose of the buffering substrate. It takes care of keeping the ph stable. As long as it's not depleted which it won't be because it's new it will take care of keeping the ph stable. 


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## Audionut (Apr 24, 2015)

A buffering substrate won't last forever. It also won't leach alkalinity into the water immediately, leading to fluctuations in tank water KH (pH). And if you're adding water that has little to no alkalinity, and requesting the substrate to add the alkalinity for you, your only really doing an excellent job of depleting the substrate at a fast rate.


Iodine.............You're not a chemist, just leave it alone. Anecdotal evidence - RationalWiki


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## KrypleBerry (May 23, 2017)

Audionut said:


> A buffering substrate won't last forever. It also won't leach alkalinity into the water immediately, leading to fluctuations in tank water KH (pH). And if you're adding water that has little to no alkalinity, and requesting the substrate to add the alkalinity for you, your only really doing an excellent job of depleting the substrate at a fast rate.
> 
> 
> Iodine.............You're not a chemist, just leave it alone. Anecdotal evidence - RationalWiki


For the record I never suggested anyone dose their tank with iodine, that would be disaster in action. If it was strictly anecdotal I wouldnt have even bothered mentioning it, or posting any link. All science begins as anecdote btw. Elemental Iodine is two iodine atoms bonded in the form of I2. Iodide is actually the ion form of iodine and is the Ion I- and usually bonds to another species such as a group one metal (alkali metals) lithium, sodium, potassium, rubidium, caesium, francium. That group is in the S block of the periodic table. I wont go any deeper into it here as we have already sidetracked off the ops topic. Just wanted to clarify what you and I were talking about are two different things Iodine/Iodide. Iodates resemble chlorates but with iodine instead of chlorine. Iodate is iodine bonded to 3 oxygen atoms and is yet another variety which can be found in hikari crab cuisine as calcium iodate, for the very reasons I mentioned and is clearly shown in the attatched photo.


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## Audionut (Apr 24, 2015)

Whoa, it was just a (non-quoted) general statement.

Personally, I think sound scientific knowledge trumps everything.


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## KrypleBerry (May 23, 2017)

Audionut said:


> Whoa, it was just a (non-quoted) general statement.
> 
> Personally, I think sound scientific knowledge trumps everything.


Just trying to keep the info straight to avoid even more confusion about iodide. Sound scientific knowledge comes with much trial and error, and lots of repetition which is why its so hard to beat. 
I wouldnt depend on the substrate to buffer my tank either for the same reasons you mentioned. 0kh sounds unstable and I would expect ph swings. Equilibrium or a similar product seems necessary to me if using R.O. to maintain gh/kh.


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

Equilibrium and other gh boosters do not add kh. Different products and baking soda do that. And if you do that to a buffering substrate it will just take the kh back down to 0 again. So the more kh you add the more damage and faster you are depleting the soil. I have yet to see a buffering substrate like ada or Controsoil cause ph swings and know many that use these soils. When you first start using them they cause the gh to lower due to charging of the substrate. This is normal and stops after a couple weeks once it has finished charging. 

This is the purpose of these buffering substrates to keep the kh at 0 and keep the ph stable. However once depleted and could be sooner than later depending on how fast you depleted it then with 0 kh the ph swings will happen. Many upon many breeders use these soils with positive results. If they did have issues with ph swings if used right then those issues would be well known and many of the top breeders would not use them. If used right by not adding kh then they last a long time. 

I am not trying to be argumentative at all just putting the facts out there is all so the OP is informed how they work and what to and what not to do. I would suggest to the OP he looks up for him/herself what many of the breeders use for substrate, why and how and what they use to remineralize. 

To help and show a breeder here he does not use any KH at all and in fact uses the same remineralizer that I do and uses buffering substrates. He has probably more than 50,000 shrimp that he breeds and sells. Take it for what its worth. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqXcfzaWIkNPtvlYuLb1Dg

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## Aqua99 (Jan 6, 2017)

For what it's worth... I have 2 Controsoil tanks set up currently with absolutely 0 KH in both (4.5 GH in one and 5.5-6.0 in the other). The low GH tank is my Bee (Blue Bolt) tank and the higher GH is my PRL CRS tank. I use SS GH+ to remineralize 0 TDS RODI.

My pH is rock steady in both tanks in the mid-low 6's. I have even run low levels of pressurized CO2 in both tanks in the past and the shrimp were fine and happy. I've since stopped the CO2 as the CRS are breeding like crazy and I hope the Bolts will very soon.

I've read reports of people keeping their Controsoil buffering ability into 2yrs +. Of course using as close as possible to 0 RODI water would be ideal. What I like about this substrate is the fact that I can vac out a corner of the tank down the road and just dump new substrate in without the worries of excess fert/nutrient swings/cycles like the ADA soils. That is, if the need ever arises.

Just posting this in an effort to convey my own personal experiences. I really love Controsoil and The SS line of remineralizers. As an added bonus for me, the substrate is great for plant growth. In my 6 gal alone I have 17 varieties of plants/rare mosses growing happily.

I considered dosing iodine/iodide in the past, but I did concentrate on choosing a few foods that list it as an ingredient instead. I didn't read though all the posts here (sorry!) but I believe many shrimp keepers like @clownplanted do the same with little concerns. That being said, I'm always interested in hearing the results from those that do dose.


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## KrypleBerry (May 23, 2017)

clownplanted said:


> Equilibrium and other gh boosters do not add kh. Different products and baking soda do that. And if you do that to a buffering substrate it will just take the kh back down to 0 again. So the more kh you add the more damage and faster you are depleting the soil. I have yet to see a buffering substrate like ada or Controsoil cause ph swings and know many that use these soils. When you first start using them they cause the gh to lower due to charging of the substrate. This is normal and stops after a couple weeks once it has finished charging.
> 
> This is the purpose of these buffering substrates to keep the kh at 0 and keep the ph stable. However once depleted and could be sooner than later depending on how fast you depleted it then with 0 kh the ph swings will happen. Many upon many breeders use these soils with positive results. If they did have issues with ph swings if used right then those issues would be well known and many of the top breeders would not use them. If used right by not adding kh then they last a long time.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the breakdown. I was actually curious about that as well. Ive used different substrates in my aquariums with different experiences. My aquariums are also not 100% geared toward being shrimp heaven, being community planted tanks I try to accommodate a happy medium for all, though they do breed in droves. 

My rummy nose school unfortunately took to nibbling on the cherry shrimp that have been in there for 6 months last week... and the cherry shrimp arent very smart it seems (or overly brave) and swim out into the open when frenzied for the saddled females after they molt. Mostly berried females left. It was a known inherent risk. At least my amano males are as big as the Rummys amd the females larger still. I also am not trying to be argumentative and apologize if I came off so, just trying to give a more complete picture while learning a few things myself in the process. My wife is planning a shrimp only nano soon and Im sure we will be looking at all the shrimp geared products more closely with questions to follow. This forum is packed with knowledgeable people, its why I joined. I have been reading in here for quite some time and enjoy all the input and discussions.


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## Audionut (Apr 24, 2015)

My apologies, I read buffering as alkalinity.

"Equilibrium and other gh boosters do not add kh. Different products and baking soda do that. And if you do that to a buffering substrate it will just take the kh back down to 0 again."

A substrate of crushed coral could also be labeled as a "buffering substrate", but would not function as you describe. But I'm probably just nitpicking, because I'm still talking.


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## Coyne (Apr 12, 2014)

New batch of water is mixed and Im not sure where Im going wrong. Im using the Equilibrium this time and trying was aiming for a GH 6. So, I followed the directions to get GH 3 and doubled it. Somehow I ended up with GH 10. Also the pH is 7.5 instead of the 7 I was expecting, but that not as big of a concern.
Can somebody please double check my Equilibrium math?
Instructions say that for GH 3 I should add 16g per 20 gallons. I have a 50 gallon container.
16g x 2.5 = 40g
40g x 2 = 80g
80 grams is what I added.
It is possible that Im dealing with 47 - 49 gallons rather than 50. Could that throw things off that much?
Its not a big deal with this batch of water. Im going to be using it while my filters keeps cycling and to "charge up" my ControSoil, so the extra GH is fine for now. I do need to get it figured out eventually. For now Im just thinking of reducing the Equilibrium by 40% on the next batch.

Addionally, I have a KH 2 for some reason. Does the API test have trouble getting accurate readings with when the KH is low (i.e. 0, supposedly)? Is it remotely possible that the air stones I have in the barrel are adding KH? To be fair, I didnt think to test the water before adding Equilibrium. I just assumed that, since the water had 0 TDS, it would have GH + KH at 0.


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

Coyne said:


> New batch of water is mixed and Im not sure where Im going wrong. Im using the Equilibrium this time and trying was aiming for a GH 6. So, I followed the directions to get GH 3 and doubled it. Somehow I ended up with GH 10. Also the pH is 7.5 instead of the 7 I was expecting, but that not as big of a concern.
> Can somebody please double check my Equilibrium math?
> Instructions say that for GH 3 I should add 16g per 20 gallons. I have a 50 gallon container.
> 16g x 2.5 = 40g
> ...


Don't waste the whole batch just pour out 1/3 and test. I never trust what the instructions say I always do half dose then test for myself. Then once I get the perfect amount I take a tds measurement. So after that you no longer need to test GH but simply your tds. For example if your tds reads 125 after you have a GH of 5 then you know in the future when you hit a tds of 125 you know it will give you a GH of 5. This is how I know what my GH levels are in my water bin.

As far as KH goes yeah the tests are not the best when used at the 5ml water sample size. A way to get a better more accurate measurement is to double or 4 times the amount of water. I do 4 times so its 20ml of test water. Then 4 drops equals 1KH. So if it turns yellow after 1 drop its .25 KH or about 4.2ppm. 

It most certainly will have a GH and KH of 0 if the tds of 0 is accurate. The airstone should not add any KH as it does not for me. I constantly run an airstone in my 15 gallon bin and the KH stays the same. I believe it could be there could be gas of some sort as gas does not get filtered out of a RO unit and shows a tds of 0. However not entirely sure how this relates to KH but it may? Also keep in mind the first 24-48 hours with a KH of 0 your PH will not be stable and will flucuate. This is completely normal and should show a PH of 7 after 24-48 hours time.


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