# Reverse-Undergravel & Planted Tanks?



## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Hi phenetrik, welcome to the Planted Tank!

From what I have read over the last couple of years, UGFs, reverse or not, are not useful for planted tanks, for mainly two groups of reasons.

One, it is neither natural nor has it shown positive for plants and their roots to have a fairly fast current around their roots. Too much oxygen oxidizes nutrients and makes them unavailable for plants. Also, often planted tankers add nutrients to the substrate, which a UGF would flush out into the open quickly.

Second group of reasons has to do with plants, their roots, and their habit to grow quickly. Those roots find their way into your carefully designed UGF outlets and block them, quickly. There is no way to get an even flow through your entire substrate, much less a way to reduce dead spots in your tank.

My suggestion is... NOT... and be careful with other things your LFS teaches.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Considering that most people commenting here are heavily into planted tanks, and we still give contradicting recommendations at times, it is unreasonable to expect a lfs employee to be able to keep up with all of this and give good advice. Those guys would have to be well informed on reef tanks, fish only tanks, and planted tanks, all at once. I appreciate their skill in catching the fish I want, knowing which are males (usually), and usually knowing a little about each species they sell. The folks here and other similar forums are where I go for advice on planted tanks.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

You can search my name and RFUG's on the APD and elsewhere.

It works, but getting ADA aqua soil will do much better and cost less. No need for RFUG's..........

RFUG's need flow added(electric cost over time add up), and one more thing to tangled up, most plant roots do better with less flow and less than heat cables as well(Tropica and myself), they cost extra, less things/pipes etc going into the tank.

They work IME, but I had some things I wanted to prove ........and did. Which is why I suggest using something like ADa aqua soil instead. 

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## phenetrik (Jun 26, 2006)

Thanks for you replies.

I was initially sceptical about using an UGF (reverse or not) because that was the first filter I ever had and it was a maintenance nightmare... ever since I started using an internal Fluval 4 Plus instead my water quality has been excellent and maintenance is a breeze. (4ft tank)

So the feeling I keep getting and cofirmed by you guys is to keep away from UGFs, and just go for an external canister for a larger tank - especially for a planted tank.

Cheers.


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## fshfanatic (Apr 20, 2006)

I just installed my FX5 on a 60"L X 24"H X 18"W as the only filtration. This filter rocks. Perfect flow rate for this tank and it holds over 5 gallons worth of media!

It is self priming and after a few minutes it shut off to release the trapped air inside for two minutes then fired back up. Even with my head inside the cabinet I couldnt hear a thing. Completely silent. It is rather large. It is wider than a 5 gallon bucket and almost as tall.










Sorry for the crappy pic, I am very tired and too lazy to take another


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## MiSo (Oct 26, 2005)

and if you do use an ugf, you'd limit yourself to only the heavier substrates like flourite. you'd never be able to use something like eco-complete (which i think looks better) 

so you'd never be able to grow plants like hc because you'd need to bury the small roots into something like sand ie.. eco complete.

ugf sounds like a bad idea.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

If you use a plate type of RUGF, then yes, but a smart plantie will use a CPVC, and make a giant spray bar type of grid with small holes on the bottom.

Then you can use the finest sand out there.

Since the pipes are under constrant pressure blowing out the pre filtered water, there is no way for any substrate to enter in, if so say when you shut the power off for service, the sand gets blasted out right way.

The CPVC is smaller than PCV, 1/2 is actually 1/2". The RFUG of this type is very good also since the plant roots can extend all the way down between the pipes to the very bottom.

Cost: about 10$ for most any sized tank.

These are very effective for high bioload fish plant tanks.
Honestly, ADA Aqua soil will yield the best results for a substrate idea.

I used RFUG's on planted tanks for 15 years, they do well, but the best plant grow occurs without any flow from UG's or cables at all.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## crazie.eddie (May 31, 2004)

You might want to contact this person on this forum who has a nice planted tank using RUGF....


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## Lorenceo (Jan 29, 2004)

Thread link: http://www.fnzas.org.nz/fishroom/amazon-tank-vt10616.html
IMO, there is no point using a UGF in a planted tank. Normal or reverse flow.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Lorenceo said:


> Thread link: http://www.fnzas.org.nz/fishroom/amazon-tank-vt10616.html
> IMO, there is no point using a UGF in a planted tank. Normal or reverse flow.


I agree.
Adding ADA aqua soil will provide a much better solution than adding a cable and sand/flourite etc. You can see the differences vs a control.


Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## vidiots (Jun 17, 2006)

I used to run a 55gal planted tank with a RFUG. I did not have any problems with that filter. I did break a lot of roots on certain plants when attempting to move them because they would tangle in the UGF plate.

Robert Ricketts has a number of good articles posted on using RFUGs with planted tanks on various websites. He is a very sharp guy and goes by RTR on quite a few online aquarium forums. He was increadibly helpful with getting my first successful planted tank running, and helping me fix my mistakes and algae battles.

Here is a link to one of his articles:
http://www.thepufferforum.com/articles/water/ugfilters.html


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## distrbd (Feb 17, 2006)

I used to have UGF in my 100gal tank and had some mediocre results with plants but removed it after a 2 years,in my experience if you use UGF you'll get some growth above substrate and great growth with roots!I remember the roots of some plants were like a foot long.

I have had much better results with regular gravel and canister filters and will not ever go back to UGF.


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