# im ready to throw in the towel



## dschmeh (Feb 5, 2006)

you probably had a ammonia spike in there somewhere. Your not dosing nitrate so ammonia must be getting converted to it , so your overstocked or overfeeding or your bio filter crased and your cycling again.
up your co2 to 30ppm
nitrates should be around 10-20
phosphate 1-2
Do a weekly 50% water change.
adding only flourish is micro nutrients you still need macro nitrate is high so is phosphate , but you still need to dose potassium. a imbalance or lack of a specific fert can cause algae also.
you can add some fast growing stem plants this will help , also shoplights are not always the best choice depending on the temp of the bulb , daylight aquarium bulbs are 6700k .


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## dschmeh (Feb 5, 2006)

also how long are your lights on per day?
Dave


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## landlord (Apr 2, 2006)

where can i get potassium? i cant find any in the local garden supply shops, and im not to keen about ordering off the internet, of course i just found out that aquariumplants.com's wharehouse is a 10 min drive from my house, and they said i could pick up my order there. some one suggeted using morten salt substitute for potassium, but i dont know if i trust that.



> also how long are your lights on per day


after the green water i've reduced it to 9 hours a day.


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## dschmeh (Feb 5, 2006)

if you dont want to order on line you will have to search your local fish stores.
seachem has a line of N/P/K . bottled seperate.


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## landlord (Apr 2, 2006)

the lfs around here only stock seachem iron and flourish. the idea i get from these guys is they dont want to order any stuff for planted tanks.

would this stuff work?
http://www.aquariumplants.com/Fertilizer_Compounds_DIY_s/39.htm

or if it can be found cheaper elsewhere, any othe place that takes debit cards?

sorry im really big noob when it comes to planted tanks. i was really good at just keeping fish!


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## dschmeh (Feb 5, 2006)

yea i prefer http://www.gregwatson.com/ some people like the premix it has NPK and micro so you would need that and phospahte and iron if needed. but your nitrate is high so i would order and dose seperate, until you get everything in line then change to the pre-mix if you want.


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## landlord (Apr 2, 2006)

dschmeh said:


> yea i prefer http://www.gregwatson.com/ some people like the premix it has NPK and micro so you would need that and phospahte and iron if needed. but your nitrate is high so i would order and dose seperate, until you get everything in line then change to the pre-mix if you want.


wow, thats cheap! im going to have to e-mail them and see if they take visa debit cards!


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## yoink (Apr 21, 2005)

You can get a product called Nu-salt or No-salt at the grocery store. It is pure potassium chloride(KCL). I used to dose it before I got my greg watson ferts, it's only a couple bucks.


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## Evergreen (May 1, 2006)

*please don't give up!*

"crappy cascade 300 power filter, stuffed with polyester fiber. (imo makes on good bio filter after a few weeks"

Maybe this is the cause of your ammonia spike? are you changing to much of your floss for your fish load. IMO this is a very poor bio filter, holds to much crap.

Keith,


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## dschmeh (Feb 5, 2006)

Evergreen said:


> "crappy cascade 300 power filter, stuffed with polyester fiber. (imo makes on good bio filter after a few weeks"
> 
> Maybe this is the cause of your ammonia spike? are you changing to much of your floss for your fish load. IMO this is a very poor bio filter, holds to much crap.
> 
> Keith,


a 4 month old established 55 with 40 or so plants should have enough biomass to handle a filter change without a spike. possibly to many fish or over feeding.


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## dschmeh (Feb 5, 2006)

yoink said:


> You can get a product called Nu-salt or No-salt at the grocery store. It is pure potassium chloride(KCL). I used to dose it before I got my greg watson ferts, it's only a couple bucks.


if you need it in a hurry that may work. but the watson potassium is less than a buck for a pound.


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## Evergreen (May 1, 2006)

2 amazon swords
1 bannana sword (that what it was called in the store)
10 Nesaea red (almost totaly destroyed by bba at this point)
10 "fox tails" (again what they where sold as)
fist full of java moss.
15 or so jungle vals
1 Brown Wendtii Crypt

live stock:
2 dwarf gorami
8 blood fin tetra
4 phantom tetra
2 sword tails
4 oto
1 pleco
20 ghost shrimp

Looks to me like the ammonia source is larger then the biomass. Or at the very least a precarious fulcrum point.


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## landlord (Apr 2, 2006)

so are you guys speculating that im over stocked? come to think of it when my nitrates dropped down 5ppm it was a day after i cleaned my "filter" i didnt check my ammonia at that time, but im wondering if it spiked then.

i found this, do you think this would be a better solution then the floss im using?
http://www.cichlidforum.com/articles/power_filter_tricks_ii.php

i havent changed the floss, just rinsed it out in tank water.

and the nu-salt, how much do you have to dose for a 55 gal? i havent heard back from watson yet on wether they accept debit cards.


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## TINNGG (Mar 9, 2005)

dschmeh said:


> if you dont want to order on line you will have to search your local fish stores.
> seachem has a line of N/P/K . bottled seperate.


So does HBH but it's not nearly as concentrated.



> the lfs around here only stock seachem iron and flourish. the idea i get from these guys is they dont want to order any stuff for planted tanks.


I ran into that - one aquarium store owner told me I didn't need to add iron to my water as it had plenty of iron. The other was insisting on me prepaying for it. My sword plants had nearly white new leaves. I figured if I was going to have to pay for it to get it ordered, I could order it myself and save myself the aggravation, so I did, and watched new, bright green leaves come out when I got it and dosed.


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## landlord (Apr 2, 2006)

just got an e-mail from gregg, im ordering now! 

i really appreciate the help, keep the suggestions coming, this noob is learing allot!


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## Evergreen (May 1, 2006)

Using that floss is like running your water through a dirty diaper over and over again. I don't believe in the stuff, unless you willing to change on a daily basis. Of course, that wouldn't do being you bio filter. If you cant afford a good canister filter then I would just fill your filter with bio-balls. Very easy to rinse out. If you want mechanical filtration then get a Magnum 250 to use once a week after your water change for about twelve hours. 

Keith,


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## random_alias (Jun 28, 2005)

I've had a time or two when I wanted to throw in the towel as well. 

I'm very glad I didn't.

When I found myself stressing out over problems it did me good to allow myself a few "I don't give a crap" days. I'd dose the tank or feed the fish but I wouldn't even touch or notice the algae or green water.

This always seemed to work because it gave me some stress-free time to focus and realize 2 things.

1. This is my hobby and it's nothing if I don't enjoy it.

2. If the tank can survive for a few days with no help from me then the big problems that I was stressing out over must not have been as big as they seemed.

After this I always had the desire and optimistic attitude to hit the tank hard and get things straight.

If you feel like quitting that's a sign that you need a vacation for a couple of days.

:thumbsup:


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

I reached that stage about a month ago - I had every kind of algae I have read about here, and I was dosing ferts, using pressurized CO2, doing everything just the way I thought I was supposed to do. My answer was to start over. I removed all of the plants and hardscape and mechanical parts. I dipped everything in bleach water to kill the algae. Then I scrapped the plants that were in bad shape and replanted only the healthiest ones, after cleaning the substrate thoroughly. For a day everything looked good! But, then came the GDA on the glass. I took my "vacation" by waiting out the life cycle of the GDA for almost 3 weeks, doing reduced fertilizing, reduced light duration, and only one water change. Yesterday I scraped off the adult GDA, got my first look at the occupants of the tank in three weeks, changed my filtration system, and I am recharged again! I enjoy this again. So, maybe a good GDA attack is the way to regain your enthusiasm for the hobby?


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## landlord (Apr 2, 2006)

Hoppy said:


> So, maybe a good GDA attack is the way to regain your enthusiasm for the hobby?



LOL. i should start hopeing for GDA!!! thats the one algea besides hair that i havent had!!! 

my birthday is comming up and my wife said she would get me a canister filter (probably a filstar) and a co2 regulator! 

i really enjoy this hobby! i took it up as a challange and because not many people seem to do live plants and they are much better looking than the fake ones. i've kept fish for years and never had these problems. its like a war every night for me. 

at least my wife is into the hobby, and helps / supports me in every way that is tank related. she says once we get the problems worked out with this tank, she wants us to setup a 20 or 30 gal for the living room!


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## Evergreen (May 1, 2006)

Guess you better watch out who you hang out with around here! I hear alot of that stuff is going around:eek5: 

Hey, I had reef tanks for years, and now starting to realize this might be a little more challenging!

Good luck, and happy birthday!

Keith,




landlord said:


> LOL. i should start hopeing for GDA!!! thats the one algea besides hair that i havent had!!!
> 
> my birthday is comming up and my wife said she would get me a canister filter (probably a filstar) and a co2 regulator!
> 
> ...


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

I've read about your problem and I had a similar situation with ICH about 5 years ago and I became so frustrated I almost gave up. I'm glad I didn't...now I've got beautiful 10 an 20g planted tanks and am working on starting up a 50. It can be an expensive hobby but the results of being patient and investing in it can be terribly rewarding. Just look at that Amano has accomplished and what others here have done with live plants. It's truly amazing and I would like to echo the thoughts of others here and suggest for you to (1) learn as much as you can and ask as many questions as you need to and (2) don't give up and finally (3) be patient and enjoy these challenges!


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