# Is it possible to create a self-sustaining ecosystem?



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

You'd probably still have to feed.

There are a few tanks on here that have gone without water changes for years, though.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

I remember in like 3rd grade maybe, we put a certain plant and a gold fish in a 2 liter bottle. Of course most of use dropped, broke or killed the fish in some way, or put it in a bowl later. One friend just kept his on his desk and it lived for 10 years or so. So i would image it is possible to do.


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## demosthenes (Aug 23, 2008)

thats awesome! years?

i know a lot of fish like to eat elodea/anacharis or whatever, but it'd be cool if there could be a totally vegetarian fish. I mean, you could probably have algae eaters alone in a big tank, but is that it?


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Every aquarium system has inputs and outputs.
A non CO2 enriched planted tank si the best example of an ecosystem level natural approach, inouts: food, maybe some a very few ferts, and these are incorporated into plant biomass, filter cleaning etc.

You add water for evaporation weekly etc as well.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

demosthenes said:


> thats awesome! years?


Yup, it was pretty amazing.

Have you tried to find books on this? My friend has one of saltwater nano ecosystems that are 100% self sustaining if done correctly. I would think if it can be done, someone probably wrote about it.


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

talontsiawd said:


> Yup, it was pretty amazing.
> 
> Have you tried to find books on this? My friend has one of saltwater nano ecosystems that are 100% self sustaining if done correctly. I would think if it can be done, someone probably wrote about it.


Any links to this 100% self-sustaining SW nano? Even at least a description of the theoretical setup?


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

epicfish said:


> Any links to this 100% self-sustaining SW nano? Even at least a description of the theoretical setup?


I'll have to get back to you on the book title. As for the theortical setup, i didn't read completely and had some trouble with understanding it so I didn't get it at all lol.


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

talontsiawd said:


> I'll have to get back to you on the book title. As for the theortical setup, i didn't read completely and had some trouble with understanding it so I didn't get it at all lol.


Great, thanks! I'd be interested in checking it out.


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## SearunSimpson (Jun 5, 2007)

I know it is possible, but it has to be very very well established. I have seen filterless, water-changless tanks before that are beautiful. The only thing that is used is the light and heater, but like I said, these are so well established that they are miniature ecosystems. It would take a long long time to get to this stage I feel. The fish are going to be need fed, and the plants are going to need light, so your friend is going to need a light too. Also, its not really that hard to maintain a nicely planted tank. Maybe a water change once a week or every two, and filter cleaing now and again. For my 29gl, it only takes what, 15mins. a week or so.


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## demosthenes (Aug 23, 2008)

oh yeah... haha i forgot about the light, too. well, maybe after getting it really well established he could just have a small filter to keep the water moving. how long do you think that would take? i mean, once the tank is established, isn't that all it takes? i mean cycling only takes a few months, doesn't it?


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Cycling? More like two weeks.


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## fishscale (May 29, 2007)

One of my 10g's is pretty close. It is really neglected, grossly overgrown with plants, but surprisingly just a little bit of algae. It has a couple guppies and a ton of RCS. I just top off the tank from time to time.


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## NoObLet (Apr 23, 2007)

wow this is one interesting thread..imma read up on this...my mom has a plant tank with neons that have lasted a long time now.. i dont know how long because i lost track..


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## SearunSimpson (Jun 5, 2007)

One of my 20gls is self sustaining pretty much. Light, heater. It's so well established. I top off water that is evaporated and thats about it, along with feeding of course and the occasional trim. You just have to research it some more, and get it established. Don't go cycle a tank and add some plants and think that is all you need to do.


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## Qckwzrd (Aug 13, 2008)

Interesting. I have a sm cube tank (approx 3 gallons) with some old saltwater sand (from a old nano tank) I rinsed off and had sitting for about 6months some drift wood, pvc pipes (from when I had crayfish) and java fern and a lil java moss. I had the tank for just snails and baby endlers. Now I have about 6 endlers (they have reproduced) a BUNCH of mts, red ramshorn snails, pond snails and a glass shrimp. I've topped the tank once and feed maybe twice a month. Had it setup for about 5 months now and everything seems to be reproducing without any problems. No heater, filter or light on top. Just indirect from the window. I'll try and post pics.


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## davrx (Feb 19, 2010)

*Ecosphere*

Have you ever heard of an Ecosphere? I bought one at a Brookstone store a few years ago and still have a couple of shrimp alive in it. It's a hermetically sealed glass bubble with saltwater, a small clump of algae, and 4 Hawiian shrimp that's self sustaining as long as the shrimp live and you provide light. I have mine sitting where it can get difused sunlight. Two of the shrimps have died either due to old age are my keeping the room they are in too cold in the winter but it's going on 3 years now and is its own little world. They come in different sizes and shapes, mine is the smallest size they sell but are totally maintainence free.


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## mott (Nov 23, 2006)

^^ I have seen this somewhere but I thought it was freshwater with Cherri shrimp? Two versions maybe?


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## sparkysko (Jun 11, 2004)

About 7 years ago I started a biosphere group. Biospheres are completely closed except for heat/light. The container is sealed. I tried many experiments, the simplest being to add a bunch of nutrients to a bottle (a bunch of fish food), cycle it by keeping it aerated and under intense light for a month or two, and then keep brine shrimp in it. Those ones worked the best. Other attempts with freshwater in bottles, I didn't have success with anything more complex than a shrimp. Tried baby guppies, glass shrimp, plants, moss, etc.. Not much success.

I have a high light 10 gallon guppy tank that is completely packed with overgrown stem plants. It's been going for 3-4 years with perhaps a water top off or water change every 3-6 months and maybe a feeding at the same time. Guppies have gone through several generations, they just nibble on string algae and bugs I guess... A similar setup in my 55 gallon did not have success however.

I think it's cheating a bit if you allow air exchange, since this is a nutrient source, but it sure makes it easier. Not much different than a pond... I seem to recall some museum had a 2 meter glass sphere biosphere that was sealed and had fish and shrimp in it..


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## sparkysko (Jun 11, 2004)

mott said:


> ^^ I have seen this somewhere but I thought it was freshwater with Cherri shrimp? Two versions maybe?


The ones at the mall are all saltwater. The shrimp are commonly sold for seahorse food. I think their lifespan is 7 years and they stay tiny, I've never heard of them reproducing in the container. I'd love a freshwater one with a freshwater shrimp... Perhaps the saltwater spheres benefit from the more sophisticated saltwater microorganisms, making it easier to have a saltwater one than a freshwater one..


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

It's definitely possible to create a self-sustaining ecosystem. Would that involve fish in just 20g? Probably not. I'd try a small fish species that reproduces readily (live-bearers) in a larger tank with really easy to keep plants and just an airstone. Say, a mix of hygros and crypts in a 55g or larger tank with just endlers and cherry shrimp. I'd also use mulm from an established tank to get all of the various microinvertebrates. This way the 'higher' species would stabilize relative to the food supply. "Just add water" and don't do anything to disturb the equilibrium, and never do anything drastically.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

my 29 kept sunset platys for many years w/a filter heater and light. I never cleaned the filter or changed the water or fed the fish. It ran for 6 months w/o fish to "cycle" the tank and allow it to establish enough microfauna to sustain the fish.


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## blackandyellow (Jul 1, 2009)

I think a hardy livebearer would work. I´m not sure algae eaters would though. In my experience they are good a depleting a tank off algae and then if you don´t feed they just die.

Back when we were kids my cousin had a tank with a single goldfish that he never cleaned. The tank´s glass was totally covered with brown and green algae and the water was like pea soup. That fished lived for years like that. He didn´t even had a filter or live plants...


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## BaltimoreGuy (Dec 23, 2009)

You guys would probably enjoy this video. In fact, this was the vid that started my journey in planted tanks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XOsitYhihc


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## essabee (Oct 7, 2006)

"Is it possible to create a self-sustaining ecosystem?"

*YES!* Very much so, just realise the truth/fact first that even a dirty, stinky, ugly, messy ditch is a self-sustaining ecosystem.

The problem is not creating a self-sustaining ecosystem but creating such a self-sustaining ecosystem that you will like to sustain/keep in your living room.


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