# Depth of LED lights?



## PlantedVirgin (Feb 17, 2012)

I am having a hard decision with converting from T5 (48" 4 bulb) to LED's for my new 90 gallon design. I am running only 2 out of the 4 bulbs as the ballast on the other 2 went out and having a hard time replacing it. 

I was thinking of getting this model (yes I know it is inexpensive) but I do not know if the depth of the LED's will be good enough for 23" depth without substrate, 20" depth with substrate. 

*LED 48" HI 0.5W 6500K Freshwater Plant Bright LED by Beamworks 4th Generation
The Beamworks Plant Bright LED fixture provides a high quality, energy efficient light fixture that replaces the typical single tube fluorescent light. LEDs in the range of 6500K are great for planted aquarium setups. The Beamworks LED is a sleek and contemporary light fixture that will make any other aquarium light look boring. Long lasting LEDs with no bulb replacement required.
Extendable brackets - 48"-52" (120 - 132 cm)
Super energy efficient freshwater aquarium lighting. No bulb replacement required.
Features:

Dimensions - 47.75” x 5.00” x 1.00”
Brackets add 0.65" in height
Includes 96 LEDs
4400 Lumen
Super energy efficient .50 watt LEDs
96x 6500K LEDs
Slim and contemporary light design
2 mode on / off function for day and night use
Mode 1 turns on all LEDs
Mode 2 turns on 8 LEDs only
Extendable bracket - 48" - 52" max extend
Extendable bracket - 120 - 132 cm max extend
Splash guard
110V - 220V

Listing includes:

1x 48" LED light fixture
1x Power supply (North America power plug)

*

Then I was reading that since this fixture only has 4400 Lumens, it might not even be bright enough for the tank. Considering the price I could always double on the fixtures? But will it get me the depth I need? 

Thanks,

PV


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

the fixture you mention is not strong enough for 20" depth water.


I just bought a green elements/odyssey EVO 64X3 watts(192watts total), 48" quad, snake eye version.

this snake eye version is individual optics, the beam angle is about 30 degree.

fixture is 2" away from the water, 21" water depth, the PAR is about 80-90 at bottom center. 
one foot away from the center, the PAR is about 30, I can lift the fixture a little further away from the water, the center PAR will be lower but edge PAR will be more than 30.


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## PlantedVirgin (Feb 17, 2012)

Thank you for the recommendation. I am considering this. 

Is it better to have more led lights per fixture or more watts per led light?

Meaning, is 36 - 3 watt bulbs better than 96 - .5 watt bulbs?


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

your 90G is tall tank, the common watts/Gallon rule doesn't work, it is not a rule anyway.

20" depth of water, you can try the 36X3 watts version, the front and back glass panel will reflect some of the light to the bottom, and of course, much more light to reach the bottom than the 96X0.5watts version.
still, I am not sure how much PAR at the bottom with the 36X3watts led light, the water is just too deep.

I have the 90G tall also, but it is an old 96wattsX2 CFL bulbs, JBJ formosa light fixture on that tank, crypts at the bottom...
the snake eye EVO 64X3watts led fixture is on the 170G main tank.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

PlantedVirgin said:


> Thank you for the recommendation. I am considering this.
> 
> Is it better to have more led lights per fixture or more watts per led light?
> 
> Meaning, is 36 - 3 watt bulbs better than 96 - .5 watt bulbs?


i know what you are trying to get at... But it is really best to look at it as being photon density and direction.. "IF" I had teeny tiny 30 degree optics on every .5W led vs "native" optics (110-ish) on 3W LEDs the .5W would "win"..

Nobody I know of lenses .5W leds so 'in general" they are best for wider shallower tanks..

That said you can make up for the larger spead w/ dense .5W arrays.. They don't produceue slower photons or anything like that..Unfortunately w/out collimating the beam you need it very close to the surface of the tank.. that way the large "spread' has a chance of entering the water column..

In other words.. understanding the parameters of spread and density .5 are fine for deep tanks.. but not without difficulty..

Larger LEDS are easier to work with for the simple fact that it is easier to control and focus the spread..easier to increase the photon density and and the height above the tank is less restrictive due to the above..

There is no magic to larger LED's just a matter of physics (photon density and spread).......

Besides you'd need 216 .5W LED's to equal 36 3W LED's IF driven at .5 and 3W output (this is a terribly simplistic calculation of a much more complex problem.. besides neither of those are probably even approaching max W.. it is inefficient in the LED world and subject to heat problems..)

as a good example think about multichips.. Usually 1W LEd's in a dense matrix w/ lenses to control them..


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## PlantedVirgin (Feb 17, 2012)

Thank you all for the much needed breakdown.

I would probably be better off just replacing my T5 light with another T5 as I am sure I will get the growth. LED's appear to be more for shallower planted tanks. If I did not have plants and just focused on bringing out color on my discus, then the 95 x .5 LED's would be great.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

PlantedVirgin said:


> Thank you all for the much needed breakdown.
> 
> LED's appear to be more for shallower planted tanks.


not sure howyou arrived at that conclusion.. but it is incorrect..


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## PlantedVirgin (Feb 17, 2012)

jeffkrol said:


> not sure how you arrived at that conclusion.. but it is incorrect..


Sorry Jeff, was just basing it on the expense of getting deeper Par. The deeper and more watts I would need, the more it would cost. I am sure that LED's are the way to go now, but based on my budget, I felt that since I had great growth with my T5's I would be better off for now. Not to say I wouldn't want LED's, just can't get what I want for now. 

I have a lot of great information that is for sure. Your posts have all helped in understanding LED's and what to look for. The threads on this forum regarding LED's are great. 

PV


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

If you want LEDs with a deep tank go with bigger LEDs or think about clustering. I have my LEDs almost 3ft high from the substrate and I get 100 PAR spread evenly.


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## PlantedVirgin (Feb 17, 2012)

May I ask what you are using Gus and did you build your own? And what was your final cost?

I am looking to build one in a couple months for my 60" 110 gallon tank.


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

PlantedVirgin said:


> May I ask what you are using Gus and did you build your own? And what was your final cost?
> 
> I am looking to build one in a couple months for my 60" 110 gallon tank.


http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=661818

The tank is 36x18x18 light is another 18" on top of tank. As far as cost mine is inflated because I have tried different combos and LEDs but just based on actual equipment being used:

LEDs
3x 5600K Vero 18 - $45 w/ molex cable
3x 2700K Vero 18 Decor - $63 w/ molex cable
6x Rapidled Violet - $120 (don't really need this many or any at all)
6x Ledil Brooke-W reflectors - $24
7x Meanwell LDD drivers - $35
1x 350W 48V 7.2A power supply - $32
1x 32x5 heatsink - $32
1x 8-up meanwell LDD board - $13
1x Typhon controller - $50
PC fans - $25
Random wire and screws to tap heatsink - $10
Wood scraps for light housing - free

My cost is overinflated by the violets because I blew some etc. Also my light is very powerful and it's not running anywhere near max power so you can downsize to lower power Vero depending on what you want. I overbuilt my light because I figured the alternative would've been 6x 3ft T5HO so a fixture alone would have cost me this much plus at least $100 in bulbs every year. The cooling system on my light is absolute overkill as well with 4x 120mm and 1x 200mm fans.


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## TXNNVA (Jan 13, 2014)

*Pv ---*

Wow. Thanks for posting this query. The exact same scenario I am in. I have a 90 that I am restarting (its been in storage for several years). I pulled out my old four bulb T5 light canopy yesterday and sure enough, only two bulbs/ballasts will work at any given time. I remember when I broke the tank down in 2009 that I was having that issue at the very end. So... I have been thinking about making the switch to LEDs? But, how well will they work on my deep 90? And, I have about six good T5 HO bulbs. So... I too think I decided to stay with the T5s. I have been looking online at sales for the Coralife Lunar Aqualife (48 inch) and the AquaticLife T5 with Lunar lights (48 inch). The Aquaticlife product looks to be about $100 more. Is it worth it? What else have you found or would recommend? Thanks


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

TXNNVA said:


> Wow. Thanks for posting this query. The exact same scenario I am in. I have a 90 that I am restarting (its been in storage for several years). I pulled out my old four bulb T5 light canopy yesterday and sure enough, only two bulbs/ballasts will work at any given time. I remember when I broke the tank down in 2009 that I was having that issue at the very end. So... I have been thinking about making the switch to LEDs? But, how well will they work on my deep 90? And, I have about six good T5 HO bulbs. So... I too think I decided to stay with the T5s. I have been looking online at sales for the Coralife Lunar Aqualife (48 inch) and the AquaticLife T5 with Lunar lights (48 inch). The Aquaticlife product looks to be about $100 more. Is it worth it? What else have you found or would recommend? Thanks


The most economical way to do T5HO is hydroponics grow lights. These have reflectors that are way better than the mid range aquarium specific T5HO lights. 

For example:
4 bulb
http://www.horticulturesource.com/hydrofarm-4-t5-commercial-4-tube-3-x-13-x-46--p9334/
6 bulb
http://www.horticulturesource.com/hydrofarm-4-t5-commercial-6-tube-3-x-19-x-46--p9335/
8 bulb
http://www.horticulturesource.com/hydrofarm-4-t5-commercial-8-tube-3-x-26-x-46--p9336/

Only spend money on the aquarium specific light if it's an ATI or Tek. Aquaticlife fixtures specifically have craptacular reflectors.

You could even roll your own if you want an odd number of lights:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=671609


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## JeffE (Oct 8, 2013)

I think for a 90 I would do either a photon 48 very dimmed or 4 20w multichips near max power. Depends what you want more controllability and spectrum or shimmer and the aesthetic of having small light fixtures. The photon is nice because of the control, easily changed LEDs and you can easily put it 4 feet above substrate with plenty of power. My photon 24 is 38" from substrate at 40%/15% Max with right around 100 par at substrate measured with apogee sq-200.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## micheljq (Oct 24, 2012)

Bettatail said:


> the fixture you mention is not strong enough for 20" depth water.


I do not agree, I did have a Beamswork led fixture much less stonger than that (rated 2400 lumens, I do not know PARs for it) for 9 months on my 24" deep tank and did grow a successfull planted tank.

Although I did considered I had low light.

Michel.


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

micheljq said:


> I do not agree, I did have a Beamswork led fixture much less stonger than that (rated 2400 lumens, I do not know PARs for it) for 9 months on my 24" deep tank and did grow a successfull planted tank.
> 
> Although I did considered I had low light.
> 
> Michel.


I mean at 20" water depth.
depends on where you put the plants, the plants on woods or when the actual water depth is less, such as 15", low light plants should be fine, the fixture that op mention, at 15" water depth maybe ok for medium light also, but need PAR reading for sure.

only some inches of water depth increase, the PAR decrease dramatically.


My original 216Watts T5HO fixture, when the bulbs dim after 9 month, the growth of low ground plants stagnated(21" water depth, dwarf sag not growing), but any stem plants that 3 inches or taller, no problem, and when they reach 12" water depth, red stem plants, are red.


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