# Heres another one for you guys: What's this WEIRD algae?



## audiotaylor (Apr 2, 2004)

Hey everyone, first let me say *thanks* to _anyone_ who reads this millionth post about our best friend in the whole wide world. Its a newly setup tank, so Im not overly concerned about this infestation yet, but Id at least like to know what Im up against and maybe get some tips to help ratify it sooner. And now Ill get right to it.

It usually occours at its strongest the day after a 30% water change. It isnt hard to remove AT ALL. The slightest touch breaks it up as if it was a mass of suspended dust particles. Therefore, syphoning this muck up is no big deal, but its very frustrating to have it back in full effect 24 hours later. It is always brown, but I dont think it cant be brown hair algae because there are no hairs and it doesnt cover the whole leaf like a carpet, but instead grows in almost tiny droplet shapes all over the leaf/glass/filter tube ect. Well, here, a picture says a thousand words so I got 5 of the best pics I could take of the slime. Hope you can help me. Here are the tank water paramaters: (Im not too great with the fancy abreviated chemical names yet, so these are in laymen's terms)

pH~7.6
Nitrite~0 ppm
Nitrate~0 ppm
KH~12 dKH or 214.8 ppm
*GH~24 dGH or 429.6 ppm* *I know that is extremly hard water*
C02~8 ppm
Ammonia~.25 ppm














































Thank you!
-David


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## ninoboy (Jan 26, 2004)

Those look really familiar :lol: The first, second and fourth picture look like blue green algae. I'm dealing with the same thing (not as bad as yours) in my 10gl with half dose of Maracyn. At first I thought they were hair or brush algae but when I found how easy they're taken out by hand, I knew they are something else. People say that bad water movement cause it but mine grow right under the filter output.


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## GDominy (Jul 30, 2002)

definately not Blue Green Algae.... Looks like Diatoms to me! Blue green algae grows in a thick slimy carpet that you can pull up in sheets almost.. you can peel it off of objects.

Get yourself some oto's and watch the diatoms disapear.. the last picture looks a lilttle different... I'm not sure what it is though.

Diatoms thrive in harder water so your pictures and water conditions really make me think thats what you are dealing with


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## ninoboy (Jan 26, 2004)

GDominy, what the heck is that then? It's not hair algae since I just dealt with it and they were gone. Not brush algae since it's so easy to take out even by vacuum. It doed grow in sheet though on top of some plants :?: Oh, and none of the otos and SAEs touch them.


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## GDominy (Jul 30, 2002)

I'd need a picture


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## audiotaylor (Apr 2, 2004)

Thanks a lot of the replies everyone.

Gareth, I was thinking diatoms too, but according to the algae section in my aquarium plants manual, they proliferate with insufficent light, excess nitrate, and oxygen deficiency. I have 4.4 watts per gallon, 0 nitrate, and Im not positive, but with only 8 ppm CO2, lots of (otherwize) healthy photosynthesizing plants and regular water changes, I highly doubt there could be oxygen deficiency. Also, I already have 9 otocinclus in that 25 gallon aquarium and the stuff is still growing like a weed.

Another weird thing I forgot to tell you guys about this algae:

In the morning when the lights first turn on, the crap is about 80% gone! I have no idea where it goes (otos finally eat it maybe, or it dies off without the light???) but either way, 3-4 hours later, it is just as bad as it was when the lights went off the previous night. @#$%* That would be another fact that would not indicate diatoms (once again, according to my manual)

Any new thoughts about this fresh information? Another thing, I got a MPEG clip with my digital camera showing how sensitive this alage is to movement by taping a heavily coated leaf. You'll just have to see it to understand. Ill include a link.

http://photos.imageevent.com/audiomaster/algae/Mov01743.mpg

Thanks again!!!!
-David


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## ninoboy (Jan 26, 2004)

It's exactly like David's (Auditaylor). If that is not BGA, then I've been treating wrongly again. It does make sense though if you thought it is diatom. I just remove one large rock in that tank that was always covered with brown algae. The brown algae didn't grow on anything else except that one rock. Since that rock was remove, I've been getting those stuffs like David's pictures. The thing is that it's not brown. It's bluish grey exactly like the fourth picture.


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## audiotaylor (Apr 2, 2004)

FYI-The first and last pics have the most acurate color representations. The others are a little darker and are there more-so to show the odd structure of the algae.
-David


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## amanda huggenkiss (Mar 3, 2004)

Okay, that video is truly bizarre. I have no idea what it is, but if you say it's 80% gone after the lights have been out overnight, have you tried blacking out the tank for a few days to see if that'll get rid of it?

Also, it's a little concerning that your nitrates are 0. They may be completely unrelated, but for your plants you should really have a nitrate reading of 5-10ppm, coupled with phosphates of approximately .5-1ppm. Do you have a phosphate test kit? If not, could you get your LFS to check it for you?


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## ninoboy (Jan 26, 2004)

David, I just saw the video. That's exactly the same thing I have in my tank right now. It's not as bad though. Let me know if you find out what kind they are. Now I'm really confused. I really thought they were BGA before and I'm in the 3rd day of treating my tank. What in the hell am I getting myself into again this time??? How many otos do you have in your tank? Would they be able to eat all those "possible diatom" overnight?

Come to think of it, the treatment I'm doing don't really work anyway so maybe it's not BGA. Even before the treatment, the tank was getting less and less of those stuff so if there is less right now, I'm not sure it's because of the medicine I put in there.


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## audiotaylor (Apr 2, 2004)

I did add some PHOS-X phosphate remover to my eheim because I had read that algae growth increases with excess phosphate. I think it may be time to remove it since it also removes nitrate. And it obviously doesnt seem to be helping the algae situation, so whats the point anyway? No, I dont have a phosphate test kit (Almost had one, but some jerk outbid me on ebay  ) but I never thought about having my LFS check for me. I may just have to bring them a sample. Thats a good idea, thanks! 
-David


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## ninoboy (Jan 26, 2004)

Amanda and David,
My tank is really free of any algae but that now. The nitrate level is at 10ppm and my PO4 level is at 0.5-0.75ppm. I got rid of my hairalgae and bba after I dose them to that levels. This craps are really annoying because they do look like fish craps :shock: 

David, I apologize but I'm not trying to steal your thread. It's just that I have the same thing in my tank and maybe useful if I share my water parameters and what I had done to find out what's going on :wink:


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## audiotaylor (Apr 2, 2004)

ninoboy, I just read your reply (We must have been typing at the exact same time  ). 

I have 9 otos and they all look VERY well fed. They MUST be eating all of it overnight; but the fact that the meer movement of their bodies over the leaves while they're eating would destroy most of it anyway shouldnt be forgoten either! 

I will definately let you know anything else I find out, although it will probably all be discovered in this thread anyway, so you could very well read it before I do! ;-) Talk to you later.
-David


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## audiotaylor (Apr 2, 2004)

Man, every time I finsh a new post, there's another new one waiting for me to reply to! Hahaha! I love it, what an awesome community. Anyway, ninoboy, seriously _any_ and_ all_ discussion about this pestilence is greatly appreciated and should not be appologized for. Thanks again!
-David

PS-HAHAHAHA! You're right! They *do* look like fish craps! Ive been racking my brain trying to think of a comparison for their odd shape and you nailed it!


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## aquaverde (Apr 15, 2003)

I was under the impression that this is brown algae, i.e., diatom algae. I had it in a tank that was lit by one screw-in CF plant bulb plus sunlight (tank was a 10g sitting on a window sill). This stuff can pile up outrageously, and I would siphon it out and the next day there it was again. No number of otos woulld be able to keep up with it. There were tons of plants in the tank. I finally got the tank out of the window and never saw this type of infestation again. 

Wish I could give you something more useful, but I was just starting out at the time, and didn't even have a test kit. The tank in question was really just a "holding" tank for my collection of flora and fauna while I was completing my first real planted tank.


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## audiotaylor (Apr 2, 2004)

Thanks James. Im almost certian it's diatoms now. I have very hard water that is full of silicates, which diatoms thrive on. That would explain why the growth is strongest immediately after a water change. Next time I do a water change, I will use bottled water instead and see if there is an outbreak. If there is, I will continue to research. If there isnt, I can be sure of the problem and its off to the store to pick up an RO unit. 
-David


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## ninoboy (Jan 26, 2004)

Yeap, must be diatom because my Maracyn didn't do jack. The thing is I have 3 planted tanks and only one has this. My water is also very hard (gh > 300ppm). If it's mainly caused by hard water, my other 2 tanks should have it also right?


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## aquaverde (Apr 15, 2003)

I wish you the best of luck with the bottled water, but my water is pH 7.0, GH 1, KH <1 out of the tap. So no difference after using different water may not mean much.

Please be sure to post your results.


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## daramagar (Apr 4, 2004)

Ninoboy how old is your tank that has this stuff? I had this same problem in my 10 gal. that i set up about 6 weeks ago but when I started dosing ferts at week 4 this stuff gave way to what I believe is brown algae(for lack of a better description it looks like my plants are rusting). 4 Otos 2 days ago took care of 99% of that problem.


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## ninoboy (Jan 26, 2004)

The tank that has this diatom is also a 10gl and it's been up over 3 months. I only have 2 otos in it. Before, I had a piece of rock that was always covered heavily with brown algae (only that rock). None grew on leaves or glass. I took out that rock and replaced it with driftwood and those stuffs started to appear. I'm wondering if I should put back that rock to collect all the diatom there :lol: It is not that bad and maybe couple more otos could do the job.


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## audiotaylor (Apr 2, 2004)

Okay, I did a 25% water change yesterday with *distiled* water and today I noticed a _durastic_ decrease in the alleged diatom problem. I may do one more water change with our tap water and see if I get another breakout before I shill out 80 bucks for an RO system. I want to be 100% positive its our water and not just the tank establishing itself. Just letting you know whats up.
-David


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## ninoboy (Jan 26, 2004)

Thanks for the update. Those stuffs in my tank are also getting less and less. I have an RO unit for my discus but really reluctant to use RO water for my planted tank. I think it might just something that fairly new tanks go thru sometimes (although mine is closed to 4mths old). I haven't made any changes yet and the diatoms are less than half compare to last week.


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## corigan (Feb 22, 2004)

I got brown diatom on my fairly new tank when I went and added some fertilizer into the column way too early in the stages development. I just added in some ottos though once things were cycled and they went to town and got quite fat and it has sense disappeared since the tank stablized.

Matt


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## audiotaylor (Apr 2, 2004)

Thanks guys. Im definately reluctant to buy an ro unit because they are so damn expensive, not to mention the fact that our sludge-water water would require me to replace the filters every month or so. Im really hoping that the outbreaks have been caused by "new tank syndrome" for lack of a better name. Ill give it another month to settle before I burn up another hundred dollar bill. Talk to you guys later.
-David


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## aquaverde (Apr 15, 2003)

Hope it works out for you not to have to use RO. That's just so much extra hassle and expense. Good luck.


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## rcmike (Jan 11, 2004)

*Possibly Dinoflagellates?*

I don't know how they look in freshwater but I had some dinoflagellates in a saltwater tank that looked very similar to that. There would be very little in the morning but during the day it would grow to the point of large mats floating to the surface. Don't know but just another possibility.


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## Phillyman (Jan 23, 2005)

I hate to be the one that revives this thread, but I am presently having a small outbreak of this algae. Does any one have any advise that adds to this discussion? My tank has been setup for 4 months, I keep track of my dosing, 10-15 ppm No3, 1-1.5 Po4, 20+ K. Micros from Flourish. Plants growing well.My Pa. tap water is about 3 KH and 9 GH. Ph of 6.4 so CO2 should be about 35%. I clean my canister every two weeks,and this weekend I switched to a stronger canister which blew some off the brown gunk out of the inside of the old tubing. I would not think that gunk would cause this problem, but that is the only thing which was different.


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## jimjim (Nov 9, 2003)

*brown alge*

Phillyman, I've found that Diatoms don't like massive water changes and apple snails love the stuff. I get it occasionally because I keep Tanganyikan cichlids and their water has lots of silicates in it(crushed shells and sand). I raise a few snails so I just threw about 4 large Apple snails in a 120gal tank. 2 days=no diatoms ...Jimjim roud:


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## ringram (Jan 19, 2005)

ninoboy said:


> David, I just saw the video. That's exactly the same thing I have in my tank right now. It's not as bad though. Let me know if you find out what kind they are. Now I'm really confused. I really thought they were BGA before and I'm in the 3rd day of treating my tank. What in the hell am I getting myself into again this time??? How many otos do you have in your tank? Would they be able to eat all those "possible diatom" overnight?
> 
> Come to think of it, the treatment I'm doing don't really work anyway so maybe it's not BGA. Even before the treatment, the tank was getting less and less of those stuff so if there is less right now, I'm not sure it's because of the medicine I put in there.


Hmm. I tend to get that stuff *a little*, and yes, it tends to be after water changes, replanting or any time the substrate is disturbed. Its really annoying when it gets on the fine-leaved plants I have like Red foxtail, cabomba and didiplis diandra...its not only unsightly, but it tends to "gunk" up that area of the plant, usually resulting in dead leaves. If you try to wipe it off, it just breaks up into tiny particles, temporarily "leaving" the leaves, but eventually it just settles again. I only have 1 otto in a 20g, so maybe I should get more? I heard that someone said they eat this stuff. I don't think filtration/ water movement is an issue as I use an Eheim Cannister(Pro) #2222 with the diffuser pointed about 45 degrees down. 
-ryan


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

I have a new 90 gallon tank, almost two weeks and this thread helps confirm have a major outbreak of a diatom bloom. I suspected it was such, and perhaps the funk on the leaves of my rotalla walachii are alot of these diatoms which are dead. Looks like a dirty, really dusty water really full of particles when I shake it off the leaves. I think the online dealer who sold me my pearl grass baby tears sent me a batch full of it as well as hair algae which helped this bloom get such a bountiful and early launch. But I don't see as much growing on the glass as I had anticipated. 

Also, I screwed up and let my GH get over 300ppm, but now its down to below 155 so I hope the diatom bloom may have peaked and the next phase appears. Which is already happening... GW, so I ordered a 15 watt Current USA Gamma UV sterilizer yesterday. When I can get my water back to a nice 6.8 pH and around a 6dGH that should help put this stuff where it belongs. In the meantime my 5 Otos are have a fine time. Thanks for finding this post Phillyman.


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

I have a new 90 gallon tank, almost two weeks and this thread helps confirm that I have a major outbreak of a diatom bloom. I suspected it was such, and perhaps the funk on the leaves of my rotalla walachii are alot of these diatoms which are dead. Looks like a dirty and dusty water really full of particles when I shake it off the leaves. I think the online dealer who sold me my pearl grass baby tears sent me a batch full of it as well as hair algae which helped this bloom get such a bountiful and early launch. But I don't see as much growing on the glass as I had anticipated. 

Also, I screwed up and let my GH get over 300ppm, but now its down to below 155 so I hope the diatom bloom may have peaked and the next phase appears. Which is already happening... Green water :icon_redf , so I ordered a 15 watt Current USA Gamma UV sterilizer yesterday. When I can get my water back to a nice 6.8 pH and around a 6dGH that should help put this stuff where it belongs. In the meantime my 5 Otos are have a fine time. Thanks for finding this post Phillyman.


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## Xx0Pisces0xX (Apr 6, 2004)

I saw soemone mention dinoflagelletes, and while I am not expert on this, I think a way to test if it is this is to put some in the cup and stir it in a dark room.. It should glow.. right?


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## Curare (Sep 15, 2004)

Ugh, I have an outbreak of Diatomic algae in my tank.

Grr to this brown gack.

An excess in silicates? Any other reasons for it appearing?


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## cprroy73 (Nov 10, 2004)

I had that algae when my tank was relatively new I think it is a form of BGA just not as green. When I would remove it it could grow back in a matter of hours, but I could take my hand and make current and it would come right off and the filter would suck it up. I did this along with normal water changes and be sure to change your filter floss because my filter would be full of it.

Definitely get your co2 inline along with your fert schedule.
Or that whatever it is won't be your only problem.


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## Curare (Sep 15, 2004)

Hmmm

I doubt it'd be a BGA related problem as I've had those before and it's always been a case of having low-zero nitrates. The tank is currently running between 15-20ppm of NO3 and 1-2ppm of KP04. 

I'm starting to think that it might be an overdose of K2S04 that might be causing it.


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## Anthony (Jan 11, 2005)

AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, this stuff is pissing me off. It came out of nowhere and took my tank over in a couple of days, plants, glass, equipment everything. My gH is only 150ppm. What is the BEST way to kill this. I only had a bad problem with it in my parrots feather, but now it is EVERYWHERE. I dose ei and have been keeping co2 above 40ppm, and have adequate water movement. Should I just do a massive water change? Everything else SEEMS to be in order, so I'm stumped. Nitrates 15ppm, phosphates 2ppm, ammonia 0 ppm, nitrites 0ppm, kh 4.2.


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## ringram (Jan 19, 2005)

Sounds like BGA. Can you by chance upload a pic or two so we can see for sure? BGA spreads faster than the plague. I had it in my tank when I first set it up and after manually removing 80% of it during water changes it would be back to full strength in a day or so. Its nasty stuff. Btw, have you used medication, or done a blackout? You may be doing the right thing, by changing whatever you were doing that caused it in the first place (high Co2, higher No3), but if its not completely wiped out, it may never really go away.

Actually, if you like, you may read this post I made a while back when I had it. There are some pictures that you can look at and see if its like what you have. Also, if you feel like reading, you'll find out what I did to get rid of it and see the more recent pictures where the tank looks much better.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=16378

-Ryan


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## Anthony (Jan 11, 2005)

My tank looks exactly like the 1st "algae mess" photo. Won't adding Maracyn kill all of it off.


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## Anthony (Jan 11, 2005)

BTW did you say that high co2 can cause algae.


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Yeah, I have heard an excess of silicates helps a diatom bloom. I have also heard every new tank goes through one. Higher pH and GH also facilitates diatoms. The water can get milky filmy too. They almost always go away after a time. This one is hanging on in my new 90 gallon tank, for some reason. But its been so long since I had a diatom bloom I can't remember how long it took to finally clear itself.

It didn't help that the great and famous eco complete I got is corrupted with some sort of alkaline rocks. I'm getting a GH of ten out of my zero GH well water. But thats another letter I've yet to write to Carib Sea.

AND NO, BGA is in no way related to a diatom bloom. BGA is actually a cyano bacteria bloom (lots of threads on BGA here). bob


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