# Bogopolis - 30g w/ 20g sump (Pic Heavy)



## bB.A.Baracus (Jun 7, 2012)

Wow, I love the moss idea. This is a great start.

I't not a discus guy, but 30 gallons is definitely too small for the amount of discus you need to keep them happy.


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## RobMc (Oct 16, 2012)

Starting to clear - the small in tank filter will be removed soon - just using it to floss.

I'm not comfortable derimming this old tank completely - but I may dremel out the front section about 2 inches in from either corner.


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## driftwoodhunter (Jul 1, 2011)

wow - I love what you've done so far - the drama of such large driftwood in relation to tank size (and driftwood is my weakness - lol) is awesome! Most folks wouldn't have such a big chunk extending out of the tank, but that's what I like best - with the plants growing on it, the whole set up reminds me of Jurassic Park.


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

beautiful wood arangement! cant wait to see it get more plants! and i love the emersed pants on that wood


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## dantra (May 25, 2007)

I love the idea of the scape however if you don't keep those curtains closed you'll be fighting algae instead of growing plants. Other than that, nice going so far.


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## Kathyy (Feb 22, 2010)

Wow, amazing start. Looks terrific.


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

what kind of mosses are those?


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## RobMc (Oct 16, 2012)

Orchid, I couldn't tell you - the back yard in MA variety.

dantra, Your fear about the window is my fear about the window - but I do want to supplement the lighting as it is probably suspended too high above the tank to get into the upper medium range. I may end up using rice paper or something similarly translucent to moderate the light.


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## RobMc (Oct 16, 2012)

Considering Glass/Ghost catfish for a base fauna.

5x Ghost cats + 3 Angels + snails/shrimp + possibly a few small corydoras

Though I'd really appreciate input on any high personality / peaceful fish you think may work.

Thanks,
Rob


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## bassmjm (Jun 1, 2011)

Fascinating driftwood and really nifty mosses! Can't wait to see everything grown-out and filled-in.


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## golfer_d (Oct 3, 2012)

great idea with the drift wood and keeping it moist for the moss!


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## SlopTank (Aug 16, 2012)

+1 on the plumbed wood! I have my shrimp tank right in front of a window w/o algae issues but thats just sand and root tabs ... Also is that some sort of plant in your HOB?


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## RobMc (Oct 16, 2012)

SlopTank: Good eye - I had put an anubias in there temporarily. Though, it's actually not a HOB, but a Siphoning overflow box - because failure of this siphon would be catastrophic...I probably won't end up planting it 

The anubias now sits emersed - mounted in the crotch of the large piece of driftwood.


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## SlopTank (Aug 16, 2012)

Ah very nice

Looking forward to see how this develops!


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## RobMc (Oct 16, 2012)

Sump is together (20g H)





































I've planted the center "refugium" with wisteria. Don't mind the shoddy shape its in - been sitting in a bucket for a few weeks. 










Tank has cleared up quite a bit - window is dirty as ever. I plan to run the main light on 4 hour intervals (7-11 AM/PM) and the sump light (65W) for 3 hour intervals (12-3 AM/PM). Eventually I plan on wiring up blue LED's for the sump and extending the photoperiod.

The sump inlet is loud at the moment. I'm thinking of running a straight siphon out of the rear overflow box, or simply out of the tank with the standard overflow chute as a backup. I think this would cause less out-gassing and certainly make for quieter operation.










Pump is plumped up to the outlet with 1/2in PVC. Currently setup as a spray-bar.

Picked up some DHG - have planted about 1/8th of it so far.

Thanks for taking a look all.


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## JunJunJenn (Aug 1, 2012)

This is so great. I love the huge driftwood sticking out and plumbing through it is genius!


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## RobMc (Oct 16, 2012)

Update:
Tank is almost cycled - Added fish.
Ended up deciding on a school of 12-15 Harlequin Rasboras and 2-4 Bolivian rams.
So far I've just purchsed the HR's

Planted some Dwarf Hair Grass - Added an emersed plant out back.



















Getting some new growth


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## rainbuilder (Sep 21, 2011)

That wood is like holy wow I'm jealous


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## kwheeler91 (May 26, 2009)

Very cool. It has a stylized feel to it. What is the plant on the wood?


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## jpalimpsest (Dec 7, 2012)

love the oversized woodscape with the mosses and the plumbing, looking forward to watching this tank's progress


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

You're off to a great start. If those are Mangroves, they'll look pretty cool as they grow up.

Though, it is concerning that you're adding fish before your tank is completely "cycled." Are you dosing Prime to make sure you don't burn your fish up?


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## RobMc (Oct 16, 2012)

kwheeler91 said:


> Very cool. It has a stylized feel to it. What is the plant on the wood?


Thanks kwheeler - I think the plant may be something in the vinca family:









Side Note: I am experiencing some die back on the moss. Hoping it will spring back.


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## RobMc (Oct 16, 2012)

Added two Bolivian rams - went to two pet-stores and they all looked a bit dodgy. If you're a ram expert - let me know if you see any signs of bad genetics. This pair has been very friendly since being placed in the tank - the male will often shield the female when I approach the tank. She's very passive, and he's a bit bossy.

I'd like to add 4 more and allow them to pair off more naturally - then remove 2 or 4 that aren't working.

The male:









The Female:










Getting Cozy:


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## RobMc (Oct 16, 2012)

Went bog shopping - testing out some new mosses


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## Neatfish (Jun 22, 2012)

Pretty cool tank.


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## RobMc (Oct 16, 2012)

The new moss looks decidedly unnatural right now - After I see what grows and what doesn't I'll re-arrange.


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## Wy Renegade (Nov 29, 2011)

Very nice. Do you mind explaining how the airline tubing works to run water up the DW?


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## SlopTank (Aug 16, 2012)

Wish I could say I was a ram expert - really do like Bolivians though, the examples I've seen have had a really unique kind understated quality to their coloration


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## RobMc (Oct 16, 2012)

Wy Renegade said:


> Very nice. Do you mind explaining how the airline tubing works to run water up the DW?


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## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

Absolutely awesome.:icon_eek:

Very curious how your setup will fare. That has a very reefer feel to it. Keep us updated.


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## tropicalmackdaddy (Mar 7, 2012)

Sososososo cool.
The wood in the front left side needs a ton of moss covering, with crypt and anubias coming out of the moss


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## RobMc (Oct 16, 2012)

Ideally I would love to have the rear center be overtaken with varied tall stem growth - (right now I'm having a darwinistic showdown of the stems back there.) The left log will be covered in anubias and moss (still thinking on what species of moss - Xmas / flame / weeping). The rear left corner will house a dense brush of crypts and java fern.

May be a long shot - but I'd like the right side of the tank to remain relatively open. I'm hoping that the DHG fills in and forms a sparse carpet. Aand...the front left side will be planted with water shamrock (Marsilea quadrifolia).

Thanks
Rob


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

I like the addition of the new moss! Although I think it would look a little more natural if it wasn't completely covered.


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## RobMc (Oct 16, 2012)

Agreed, a lot of it isn't making good contact with the tree and will most likely die off - I'm hoping nature will take its course and the moss will get thinned back to a natural level.


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## RobMc (Oct 16, 2012)

Planted some Marsilea Quad - still in terrestrial form. The rear left corner has been filled with crypts and java ferns.



















And the ram - love these guys


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## RobMc (Oct 16, 2012)

Clover is taking over


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## kwheeler91 (May 26, 2009)

How are you keeping the moss on the wood alive? High humidty in the room or is water creeping all the way up the log?


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## Kathyy (Feb 22, 2010)

The return from the filter is split, an airline lifts some water to the top of the wood. 

Looks like Oxalis to me, not clover. The weedy ones around here have pretty yellow flowers. Might flower for you even inside considering how persistent it is outside anywhere in the garden!

Love this tank and hate when the next response makes it go to a new page as I enjoy scrolling through all the photos again.


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## RobMc (Oct 16, 2012)

I just looked up Oxalis and you're spot on Kathy. Sometimes I'm 10 years old when it comes to plant ID. Sort of looks like a 4 leaf clover? Must be a 3 leaf clover.

Thanks,
Rob


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

This is really neat.

I look forward to seeing how the moss does growing on the wood. That Marsilea will also grow on wood in its emersed form if it has just a bit of soft punky wood or moss to hold onto. 

For a setup with the light source so far away from the bottom substrate and with those low tech plants I would suggest that it's not really necessary to use a topsoil underlayer. The benefits that the plants will get from extra nutrients might be limited. It might become advantageous if those underwater plants spread a lot.


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## RobMc (Oct 16, 2012)

I ended up plopping a sprig of Marsilea ontop - we'll see if it can defeat the Oxalis

Red root floaters in the sump are doing well:


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

Did you tie the moss to attach it? Or just plop it on?


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## SlopTank (Aug 16, 2012)

You have any shots of the Darwinian battle of the stems?


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## RobMc (Oct 16, 2012)

SlopTank said:


> You have any shots of the Darwinian battle of the stems?


Here's a comparison shot from 12/16 - 12/29 showing the growth. I'm happy with the node spacing, and so far all the stems are keeping pace. The rotala indica has the upper hand as it started with higher numbers. In the second shot the lights have just come on - so many of the leaves are still in their nocturnal state.


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## RobMc (Oct 16, 2012)

And a few more shots


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## jpalimpsest (Dec 7, 2012)

Is that _Trigonostigma hengeli_?


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## RobMc (Oct 16, 2012)

jpalimpsest said:


> Is that _Trigonostigma hengeli_?



They were marked as "Harlequin Rasboras" but look a bit mixed.









Sump is starting to fill up with floaters


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## bitFUUL (May 14, 2010)

Great looking tank! Very nice looking setup with such an aggressive scape. 
I'm interested in how the plants on your driftwood are doing.
Is the waterfall enough to keep them alive out of the tank?


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## RobMc (Oct 16, 2012)

bitFUUL, The trickle of water has so far sustained the plants on the log. The mosses have a bit of die back - But are showing hope.

The oxalis is doing well, and is even shooting up a few buds; though It's little more than a weed.


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## scapegoat (Jun 3, 2010)

i feel like that sump is going to overflow?

can you provide more info on your sump set up? trying to decide on one myself.


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## driftwoodhunter (Jul 1, 2011)

In that last pic I can clearly see a pixie-like woodland face looking slightly left of center. A pointy little nose, shadowy eyes, big bushy green eyebrows (a Scottish pixie?) and a great hairdo! And whatever is sticking up in front of it. What has been seen, cannot be unseen! LOL


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## RobMc (Oct 16, 2012)

scapegoat said:


> i feel like that sump is going to overflow?
> 
> can you provide more info on your sump set up? trying to decide on one myself.


I use an overflow box to prevent the siphon from failing and to set the water level of the top tank.

If the pump fails, the water rises in the sump an inch or two, but does not overflow.


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## RobMc (Oct 16, 2012)

01-14-2012


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## driftwoodhunter (Jul 1, 2011)

It looks so very nice! I love how delicate the plants look in the first pic.


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

Those floaters look cool! I've been wanting to get some for my 4 gallon, to give my betta some security. What is yours? And how large is it? I might need to find some!


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## RobMc (Oct 16, 2012)

The lower sump-tank is a 20g, mid section is maybe 13g.

Using:

Red Root Floaters - http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myPlants.php?do=view&p=16
The RRF does best right under the light, with a high bioload / nutrient dense water column. The roots are only 2 inches or so. 

Frogbit - http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/myPlants.php?do=view&p=197&n=Amazon_Frogbit_limnobium_laevigatum
The frogbit seems less demanding, and will get burnt under high lights. It sends long 3-6 inch roots down into the water.

Oh, there's also Riccia in there. It will probably be good for shrimp to feed off of, but I'm not really partial to it.


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## RobMc (Oct 16, 2012)

Update 1/22

Plants are starting to breach the water surface - might be ready for her first haircut.


















Marsilea are starting to grow in their submersed form. Emerged nodes are melting away.









Pulled the oxala out of the top as it was starting to shade everything below and really push back the moss growth. I tried transfering a small piece of ludwigia sp red - not sure if it will grow emerged or not.


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## RobMc (Oct 16, 2012)

01-27-3013 Update


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## izabella87 (Apr 21, 2012)

This is all so so pretty ! well done!


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## homemadepopcorn (Mar 19, 2012)

This is very nice, well done. The espei rasbora are looking quite healthy as well.


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## driftwoodhunter (Jul 1, 2011)

Looks great! The driftwood is such an amazing focal point...


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## RobMc (Oct 16, 2012)

Thanks popcorn. I'm taking a natural filtration approach and aside from the color of the water everything is great. 

Two of the rams have just spawned and really pushed the remaining 4 to the back half of the tank. I may have to take two out.


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## Assassynation (Dec 23, 2011)

awesome!


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## awcoburn2 (Dec 25, 2012)

Awesome tank. Love the driftwood coming out of the top.

Congrats on getting the rams to spawn!


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## RobMc (Oct 16, 2012)

Added a 250gph circulation pump: it is timed to turn on and off randomly at half hour intervals with a (2:1 probability of being off) while the main lights are on. Hoping this will keep more detritus in suspension, stimulate the plants a bit, and provide the fish with some exercise.


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## BoxxerBoyDrew (Oct 16, 2005)

FREAKIN AWESOME SETUP Rob!!!!!

I have used the air line trick before in a Terrarium before, but I would have NEVER thought to do it in a aquarium like you did!!! Hats off to you!!! The planting of the stumps is looking VERY GOOD TOO!!! The layout of the tank it self is PERFECT!!! It looks VERY NATURAL!!! Honestly it looks just like a area that I swam in when I was a kid called Crappie Island on Ceder Creek Lake in North Central Texas!!! The fish are a bit different, but everything is spot on!

I was wondering what pump you have running the sump? Also is that just Play Sand? You mentioned looking for black sand on the cheep, but I really think the black sand would throw off the very natural look!!! Sure the fish's color would pop a bit more, IMO it is prefect the way it is!!! Also what is the Gatorade bottle for in post #59?

Those Rasboras are Good looking too! I can't tell if they are true Espei or a cross with Harlequin, but they are Pretty either way. With the pic of the rams in post #59 I was thinking that they sure look like they are fixing to spawn!!  LOL How are the eggs doing? Rams are some of my FAVORITE Fish!!!

Well keep up the AWESOME WORK, and I am subscribed too!
Drew


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## RobMc (Oct 16, 2012)

Why thanks much Drew, those are some mighty kind words.

It is just "general use" sand. I agree, at first I was disappointed as I was going for a more stylized look - but the lighter sand has ended up looking quite natural and I like it.

I'm running a Via Aqua 1800 as the return - dialed back a bit.

The eggs are doing well - 4/5 of them appear to be fertilized and are still yellow with little dark dots. Mom is doing a great job, tirelessly hovering over the rock and cleaning the general area. She's digging a small cave/recess in the sand just behind the rock. Dad's a beast and is keeping quite the perimeter. Occasionally they'll swap spots so that she can go grab a bite to eat. All said - I'm not prepared to take care of the fry, but may set something up if this happens repeatedly.

Also, one of the "whisker" shrimp is quite pregnant with a neon green batch of eggs. The young will have a larval stage, unlike many dwarf shrimp - not sure how they'll fare but I've got my fingers crossed.

Thanks again,
Rob


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## scapegoat (Jun 3, 2010)

RobMc said:


> I use an overflow box to prevent the siphon from failing and to set the water level of the top tank.
> 
> If the pump fails, the water rises in the sump an inch or two, but does not overflow.





RobMc said:


>


nice.

I really like your sump design. are you adding co2 at all? I'll probably use a similar layout for my 125's sump


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## RobMc (Oct 16, 2012)

My only shame with this tank is that I dose Flourish Excell - about 50% the recommended volume. Hate working with the stuff though - nothing like a little mutagenic biocide before breakfast X_X



PS to Drew: the gatorade bottle is just a little sky-light for the betta that's currently being housed down there. I was worried he'd get trapped beneath the weeds.


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## BoxxerBoyDrew (Oct 16, 2005)

Cool Deal!

Thanks for the info!!!

Great News on the eggs too! Should be getting close to wigglers!!!
Drew

p.s. GREAT IDEA on using the specimen boxes to build the overflows too! Do you happen to have a pic of it before it was installed? I am guessing you are using plastic or Stainless screws and nuts?


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## Wy Renegade (Nov 29, 2011)

Tank is growing in quit nicely. Thanks much for the diagram. Love the sump design as well.


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## RobMc (Oct 16, 2012)

Well the first batch of eggs failed. Not sure if they made it to the "wriggler" stage. I went away for a weekend and they were gone by the time I got back.

However, they've recently tried again - with much more success!

The fry are now a week old (since hatching). 
The parents laid the eggs on the large piece of bogwood. While the eggs were maturing, the parents ferociously dug a large hole / nest in the hairgrass X_X down to the dirt. When the eggs were just on the verge of hatching, the parent fish took turns carrying them down into the nest. I observed the wrigglers in the nest for 2 days, then left for a 4 day trip to my girlfriend's place. During this 4 day period the tank received no feeding other than the algae tab I dropped in before taking off. Much to my surprise, I came back to free swimming fry.

Any tips would be greatly appreciated - I don't have a solid plan of what to do if any of them make it to adult hood.




























Also, I've chopped down the tall piece of wood - which was quite an upsetting experience for the tank. It is unfortunate, but I did not have an appropriate lighting solution for that setup.










Below, you can see the top of the log replanted with ludwigia sp. red clippings from the tank.


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

Cute fry!!! Hope they survive to adult-hood!!!!


That sucks about the wood, but I think with it cut down, it really bring the focus to the tank, which is good!


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## Aquaticus (Jan 7, 2013)

Awesome tank!


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## RobMc (Oct 16, 2012)

Captured some video footage of the tank


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## scapegoat (Jun 3, 2010)

I think the tank looks better now with the wood cut


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## RobMc (Oct 16, 2012)

Thanks Scapegoat, I've adjusted to it and have started to like it more.

The ludwigia SP red - growing like mad. It may be time to trim high and tight for a cleaner grow-out. Though The longest stem has re-rooted half way down the log so I may do the same with the remaining runners.


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## kwheeler91 (May 26, 2009)

Wow man... Awesome video. I could watch your tank with that music forever.


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## thelub (Jan 4, 2013)

That is an impressively nice setup. Totally digging the plumbed driftwood idea.

I just read from the beginning. If you decide to de-rim your tank, its easily done with a good sharp utility razor knife. No dremel required. I think that tank rimless would take it to another level.


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## bitFUUL (May 14, 2010)

Diggin' the video, very well put together.


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## RobMc (Oct 16, 2012)

Down to just 3 youngins, but they're looking pretty good. Hoping at least two make it out of the woods.


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## SlopTank (Aug 16, 2012)

That's some heavenly video dude, very nice. Ever bump into any algae issues with the window?


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## samee (Oct 14, 2011)

Your pro with the camera!! Also, what program did you use for the video? SonyVegas?


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## RobMc (Oct 16, 2012)

Thanks. I have very minor algae issues, generally localized to decaying leaves / wood. After very heavy feeding, or when the rams decide to dig up the grass. -_- I do get a little growth on the glass. Under normal circumstances the floating plants in the sump keep the water column nutrient level very low and I hardly ever have a nitrate reading. I attribute this to a higher uptake than production rate. Npk is removed from the system by literally pulling out 2-4 handfulls of plant growth from the sump each week. Growth is directly related to how heavily I feed and the rams' nesting behavior.


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## RobMc (Oct 16, 2012)

samee said:


> Your pro with the camera!! Also, what program did you use for the video? SonyVegas?



Hi samee,
For this video I used Corel power director. It's very easy and intuitive. I have used Vegas in the past and liked that equally. Really for a video this simple (audio track + fades) any of the available packages would have been suitable.


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## RobMc (Oct 16, 2012)

Found a source for 12W GU10 LEDs. To start, the fixture would be a mix of cool white and warm white. Eventually I would like this to be digitally dimmable, allowing for a sunrise / noon / sunset effect.

I may disassemble the lights and add RGB components if the CRI proves to be poor.

Here is the preliminary design. 1x4 and 1x2 construction. 28mm hole saw for the GU10 sockets. Total cost $40


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## RobMc (Oct 16, 2012)

To get the spread I'd like and the mounting height, I'd have to go with 30 degree optics:

The fixtures I'm currently sourcing have 45 degree optics, which gives me about 130% coverage at the top of the aquarium

Image shows 30 degree optic spread at 1.8'










And 45 degrees










The 30 degree optics would offer better penetration and less spillage, but may burn plants near the surface. Refractive index is not taken into account either. Spread at the bottom of the tank would be less than is indicated.


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## tropicalmackdaddy (Mar 7, 2012)

Any updates on this tank?


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## coolnick (Oct 28, 2006)

Just an FYI on the optics, a 45 degree optic is rated for 45 degrees before a 50% loss. In all my fiddling, this usually makes a 45 degree optic much closer to a 30 degree optic in terms of real output. The path becomes even more narrow when it hits the water. You should be fine with those 45s.


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## whyviet (Feb 10, 2012)

That moss out of the top of the water is awesome.


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## RobMc (Oct 16, 2012)

Hey thanks for following - The tank is still doing well, though growth is slow.

The light is on hold as my bulbs have not yet come from china. *shakes fist*

Also, I didn't even think of the beam narrowing due to the refractive boundary of the water / air. Good call.


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## Bercey (Jun 6, 2012)

That is the most magnificent piece of wood I've ever seen. *snicker*

Seriously, love it.


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## SlopTank (Aug 16, 2012)

How's the tank and those fry coming along?

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2


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