# Ideal water parameters



## Steve Hampton

I really hesitate to give these because you can deviate a lot from these and still have success, but here's what the consensus of aquatic gardners would probably be.

GH 2-8 dGH
KH 3-6 dKH
pH 6.5-7.0
NO3 5-10ppm
K+ 20-30ppm
PO4 0.2-0.5ppm
Fe 0-2-0.7ppm

Since Traces can't be tested most are along with Fe rate.
CO2 15-30ppm


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## Steve

great, thanks


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## ridns

With my test kit I can test ph, amonia, nitrite, nitrate, KH, GH. Search as I may I have yet to find a test kit for Fe, Po4, K+, or NO3. Is there a way to compute this from the other results or how do you come up with these values? What I can test falls into the parameters just fine but it would be nice to know the rest. My plants seem happy so it must be ok.:hehe:


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## SNPiccolo5

I know there is a way to calculate CO2 from your pH and KH, but it isn't a formula or anything. Maybe if you search CO2 table, you will get a table with KH and pH values. The basic trend is that the CO2 is directly proportional to the KH (goes up while the KH goes up) and inversly proportional to the pH (goes up when the pH goes down). Hope this helps!

-Tim


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## KyleT

> _Originally posted by SNPiccolo5_
> I know there is a way to calculate CO2 from your pH and KH, but it isn't a formula or anything. Maybe if you search CO2 table, you will get a table with KH and pH values. The basic trend is that the CO2 is directly proportional to the KH (goes up while the KH goes up) and inversly proportional to the pH (goes up when the pH goes down). Hope this helps!
> 
> -Tim


Actually there is an equation used to calculate the CO2. It is 
CO2 = 3.6*KH*10^(7-pH)


Kyle


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## Steve Hampton

> Search as I may I have yet to find a test kit for Fe, Po4, K+, or NO3. Is there a way to compute this from the other results or how do you come up with these values?


Well, I probably should have spelled out the elements to be tested, my fault for being too lazy. 

NO3 is a standard Nitrate test kit

Fe is a Iron test kit, these are dubious at best you can certainly skip buying this one

PO4 is a Phosphate test kit, very good to have one, as it's usually the first parameter to cause problems for most people

K+ there isn't any need to purchase a potassium test kit. Provide plenty of K+ is all you need to do, overdosing of K+ doesn't cause problems.

Lastly, no there is no other way to compute these individual values other than with test kits.


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## SNPiccolo5

Awesome formula for CO2!! I have to try this... lets see. I am assuming (I know it is dangerous to assume, but heck!) it is in ppm, so here goes. My KH is like 175 or something like that (I'll test tomorrow and get exact results, haven't done a test recently!) 3.6*175*10 ^ (7-8)= 630*10^-1 = 630(1/10)...wait, 63 ppm CO2, now I know my tank doesn't have that much... I'll have to test my KH.

Thanks for the formula though, you can apply every subject to fish tanks (even government)!

-Tim


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## SNPiccolo5

Wait, I was just re-reading my previous post (I know it is wierd) and realized that you could put the equation into this form also to show the relations (direct and inverse)

CO2=3.6*KH/10^(pH-7)

Switching the order of the 7 and pH makes the exponent posotive for above 7 and negative for below 7. Sorry...math is my favorite subject, and we just learned about direct and inverse variation...sometimes you might just here me applying everything to newton's 1st, 2nd, and 3rd laws too. It's too late.

-Tim


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## Buck

Ok all this equation stuff has me googly eyed fella's... 
I have a pretty neat lil designed DIY CO2 Reactor and yeastmix... Im gettin a great bubble every 4 - 5 seconds and has been that way now for 4 days and I have been testing ever since.
My 30 gallon tank...
PH - 6.5  (started at 6.9_4 days ago)
KH - 4 deg
GH - 3 deg
Fe - 0.1 ppm

According to these charts at the Krib I am at " deadly " amounts of CO2... yet all my critters are showy and beautiful with no ill effects. Plants are flowing O2.
I have added 4 drops daily of AquaFlora (suggested) and initially added correct dose of FloraPride.

2 questions...
Am I getting too much CO2 with this setup ? 
This is not injected...I simply have a " puddle " of CO2 that sits in a mini Vacc too absorb into water.

What is everyones opinion on " Fish Loss " CO2 ppm... How high have you been ?


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## cousin it

according to my calculations your co2 levels are about the same as I use on my 55g, I have yet to loose a fish at these levels due to the co2, old age yes but not the co2


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## Buck

The fish are looking better then ever and there colors are oustanding. I have mostly tetra varieties , a betta , some ottos and a couple shrimp. The tank is heavily stocked if you go by suggested fish numbers... hehe
I am new to this CO2 stuff and I got a bit nervous with the numbers... but I fall into every category as ideal other then PH being a bit low.
So am I too understand that if I buffer the PH up a bit the CO2 levels will drop to a better amount ?
Or should I regulate the CO2 amount entering the tank...
If I have a fish kill my wife will shoot me.... She allready thinks Im half-crazy with my hours of research and design of the new BuckBubbler...:hehe::hehe:


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## cousin it

If you can regulate the amount of co2 entering the tank to achieve the level you currently have you would be ideal.
with diy co2 I have heard of people using an air pump for a while at night to dissipate excess co2 which might help you should you find the ph dropping further.
the easiest way is to put it onto a timer set to operate for an hour or so to help keep levels down to the required amount especially if the tank is stocked generously.
research done by Berti Gesting has shown that fish can survive at co2 levels in excess of 100mg/l
and black mollies were fine at levels of 500mg/l
guppies were seen to breed at levels of 800mg/l
but as far as plants are concerned they will thrive with 35-45mg/l
I have followed this advise for the last 7 years and my fish breed regularly, many of my pencil fish have been born in the 55g at levels of 35mg/l


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## Buck

The tank is doing tremendously , and in actuality the fish appear better then before all the plants and CO2.
But I tried to figure it out *numerically* and it just seems to me that by all Ive read it is too much CO2 for the fish... hell these critters aint even thinkin of heading for oxygen at surface , the only time they go there is at feeding 

One last stupid question... 
I have seen amounts described as mg/l before... how does that relate to ppm ? When you say 35 mg/l is that same as 35 ppm ?


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## cousin it

as far as im aware they are the same. if im wrong then I'm sure some one will be able to correct me.


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## Steve Hampton

Cousin it wrote:


> as far as im aware they are the same. if im wrong then I'm sure some one will be able to correct me.


You are completely correct! Both mg/l and ppm are for all pratical purposes exactly the same.

I am also very surprised and quite pleased to see someone state that CO2 levels at 35-45ppm are fine. Personally I've taken reading from spring feed streams in North central Florida where the CO2 levels are in excess of 600ppm---with obviously flourishing and breeding plant and fish/animal life. BTW, pH flucuations are wide but the BOD and TDS remains very low and/or stable. Low O2 levels has been and always will be much more of an issue than high CO2 levels. Anyway, glad to see you've found these forums, Fender has done an excellent job creating them for all of us "aquatic gardners".


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## cousin it

from what I have been informed over the years the levels of over 20mg/l being dangerous related more to trout farming than to tropicals.
it is nice to find a forum like this, to be able to share what I have learnt and to learn more to improve my tanks 
his work is well appreciated by me


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## cliffclof

This post is pretty old, but for future reference. The co2 equation is using KH in German degrees hardness not ppm or mg/L and you can not swap the ph read with the 7pH level for the exponent.

CO2 = 3.6*(KHdegrees)*10^(7-pH)



Which would have been 3.5172 ppm CO2, not 63 ppm in Tim's post.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## happi

K+ actually can be overdosed, it somehow effect the Ca and Mg uptake. i cant confirm this yet but am still doing lot of study on fertilizers in my tank. for right now all i can say is that EI dosing does not work very well in very soft water, it however works very well in harder water above 6dgh.


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## jgb77

cliffclof said:


> This post is pretty old...
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Pretty old yeah. It looks like it was started shortly after the start of this site, almost 10 years ago.
John


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## cliffclof

jgb77 said:


> Pretty old yeah. It looks like it was started shortly after the start of this site, almost 10 years ago.
> John


yes, but google still looks back 10 years.


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## BMueller777

well thanks google for bringing me here lol... I just got a bunch of different test kits yesterday.. What's the consensus for 2015 as far as ideal water perimeters? anything change over the years? lol

Thanks


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