# Anyone heard of Orange/Sunkist or Tangerine Tiger Shrimps



## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

I've heard of sunkist shrimp, which some importers try to pass off as orange cherries.

I've seen orange cherries, but not tiger cherries.

I have cherries with stripes, lots of them!


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## yaouch (Aug 14, 2010)

Can u post some of ur cherries with stripe so I can compare?


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

I don't have any pictures of my cherries, I am at work right now.

but I'd say 80% of my males have striping 

oh, and 0% of the females have stripes. I think males just normally have stripes


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## Geniusdudekiran (Dec 6, 2010)

mordalphus said:


> I don't have any pictures of my cherries, I am at work right now.


LOL go multitaskers! Homework+TPT=ticked off parents

but whatever!


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Never heard of Orange Tiger either.

I only know of (2) orange shrimps: Propinqua (Sunkist) and an Orange morph of the RCS which is hardly seen.


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## yaouch (Aug 14, 2010)

They are also known as tangerine tigers


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## janftica (Jan 11, 2010)

Most of the Sunkist shrimps are Propinqua's. I had those and yes they do have some stripes...I think the seller is just trying to make them sound unique! Get a pic of them, and we can all give you our opinions on what they are. 

My op is that they are indeed Propinqua, often called Sunkist, Tangerine Orange, Fanta, Orange Soda etc...just fancy names but all the same shrimp!


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

janftica said:


> just fancy names but all the same shrimp!


Yep ... and that's where it's buyer beware.


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## yaouch (Aug 14, 2010)

I google tangerine tiger shrimp and it gave me this: Does kinda look like sunkist shrimps.....


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

That's definitely not a caridina propinqua (lack of back hump, shorter rostrum). It's also not a neocaridina judging by the rostrum and eye position. I'd say it's caridina, possibly tiger shrimp, but impossible to know for sure. For all we know, this single photograph could be just one single mutant of a tiger. Definitely not neocaridina.


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## yaouch (Aug 14, 2010)

Thanks for the info Liam, I have a buddy that has these, will try to get the actual picture of more then one shrimp.... pls stand by.....


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

Sure, try to get some nice clear pictures, and I can try to pinpoint the ancestry through anatomical identifiers.


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## yaouch (Aug 14, 2010)

Liam, I added some pics... pls check it out and let me know what you think.... Anyone else can ID these Shrimps pls feel free to do so....

Thanks


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## Cardinal Tetra (Feb 26, 2006)

You should buy them and breed them. I want some!


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

Still looks like a caridina to me, not neocaridina. Almost like someone bred tiger shrimp (c. cantonensis) to orange. Which is possible!

Can you ask the person you got the pictures from?


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## yaouch (Aug 14, 2010)

Well here is the thing... my buddy bought it from a breeder which does not sell in the US. These Tangerine shrimps were going to Japan before the earthquake hit. After the horrible disaster alot of ppl cancel their order. That is the only reason he got to purchase these shrimps. He explain to me that these has not been introduce to the US market yet. Im thinking about buying some but they are expensive and I just wanna make sure Im not buying any inbreed/mixbreed sunkist shrimps. My buddy doesnt really know what kinda shrimps these are either... he was just told that these are rare and never heard of tangerine shrimps so he pick up a few doz just for kicks. But if im gonna drop 5 bills to buy a colony I want to make sure.......


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## aelysa (Oct 20, 2006)

Those are really super cute. Breed them and sell them to us @ SCAPE


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## janftica (Jan 11, 2010)

Yep count me in when you get some ready for sale....those are cool looking!


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## yaouch (Aug 14, 2010)

OK I have more info about these shrimps.... These are called "Golden Tiger Shrimp" Caridina Cantonensis. As we all know Germany is the leading tiger shrimp breeders, they master the art of breeding tiger shrimps from OEBT to the awesome black tigers. Both of these tiger shrimps do come with orange eye and there are some with just black eyes. Golden tiger shrimps were introduce to Germany least year in April, and they are very very new and extremely rare to the hobby, has not been introduce to US yet.... Alot of Germany shrimp breeder refuse to sell to the US not sure way, guess they want to keep it to themselves. There is a very repeatable shrimp breeder in Germany name Michael Nadal, which did an article on these shrimps and they do breed true however like all tiger shrimps there will be blonds, light orange/golden or dark orange/golden. I am very much interested in buying some of these shrimps maybe even try to cross breed with my OEBT to define the strips a bit more and maybe just maybe give them that signature orange eye..... I will be posting a thread to who ever is interested in these golden tiger very soon..... They are not cheap your are looking at anywhere from $15-$20 each, and that is wholesale price..... plus shipping. who ever is interested just shoot me a pm and I will put you on my list when Im ready to purchase.


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

oh cool, can you link the article for us? I wanna read it!


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

It would be super cool if the black stripes were further developed. Imagine a dark orange tiger shrimp with big black stripes like a regular tiger.....it would be the closest representation to a real life bengal tiger. Nice looking shrimps BTW.:thumbsup:


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## yaouch (Aug 14, 2010)

The article is in German...... and its a pdf pm me with ur e-mail and I can forward it to ya Liam....


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## Duckweed hunter (Feb 2, 2011)

they look like Caridina cantonensis sp. "Orange Bee" to me but i could be wrong (witch i got 3 of from a LFS by my house)


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## janftica (Jan 11, 2010)

Hmmmnnn, very interesting! I just talked with Micha and he said quote
" 
i buy this shrimp last year in thailand in a shrimp store, but the color is a fake, after some weeks they lose the orange color and the most of them die...:-((((. "

Sorry I guess I will pass on them, if Micha couldn't work with them or keep them alive, I don't have a hope in you know what of keeping/breeding them either, pretty though they look. 

Its not something I want to spend money on sorry I will pass.


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## yaouch (Aug 14, 2010)

Who is Micha? And I really don't thInk these shrimps came from Thailand. I do know that alot of China, Thailand, Indo, seller do alot of shady things to make their shrimps more colorful or whatnot. But like I said these shrimps will go to me and a few lucky ppl who's welling to try out new things. I'm not pointing a gun at anyone. That's what ppl say about Rili shrimps when they 1st came out, since then I sold 100s of Rilis..... No risk = no glory....


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## janftica (Jan 11, 2010)

"There is a very repeatable shrimp breeder in Germany name *Michael Nadal*, which did an article on these shrimps "

Micha IS Michael Nadal! The answer I just gave above is direct from Michael!! 

He never wrote any article either....he sent a few of these shrimps to Werner Klotz at Caridea.de and he wrote an article! Unfortunately I am having trouble downloading this article, so if anyone has the ability to download it and translate it I think we would all benefit from reading about these shrimps. Please post it on here, or the link.

IF anyone wants to purchase them with you that's your option too. I am just offering an opinion from one of the best and reputable breeders in Germany!


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

if they're caridina cantonensis, they wouldn't be THAT hard to keep.


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## yaouch (Aug 14, 2010)

I have the article which my friend got from Shrimpnow but it's a PdF and it's in German..... Pics of the same exact shrimps and picture of taxonomy and a bunch of other stuff I can't read...


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

Google translate will work on PDFs document upload option.


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## imke (Oct 6, 2010)

Hi all,

maybe it is time to clear things up from somebody with German language skills.
The PDF about the golden shrimp is a taxonomy report done by Andreas Karge and deals with a shrimp Michael Nadal sent to him.

The website of Andreas is http://www.caridea.de/ and the reports are under http://www.caridea.de/archiv.htm Download 'Golden Tigershrimp - ein Fake?'.

Before accusing anybody dealing with dyed shrimp, we should be careful ruining reputations. For that one examined shrimp, Karge concludes *Caridina cantonensis "Golden Tigershrimp".*

A friend of mine had similar, which did not loss color, and where suspected to be caridina serrata tuepfel. It is easy to prove, as if you cross Tiger and Tuepfel, females will drop eggs in my experience.

So overall, we should start working with that shrimp and try breeding them. Better give that novelty to experienced guys to spread it, instead to guys who are willed to pay the most $$$$  

Imke


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## aelysa (Oct 20, 2006)

Dr. Google helped me out.
http://translate.google.com/transla...caridea.de/archiv/pdf/goldentiger.pdf&act=url
Like real tigers with an orange background. Hot!


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## yaouch (Aug 14, 2010)

Thank u very much for clearing things up.... I'm glad we settle this....


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## ZID ZULANDER (Apr 15, 2008)

I am not seeing these shrimp on this site from the picture.


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## ZID ZULANDER (Apr 15, 2008)

Where are these shrimp on this site?


yaouch said:


> I google tangerine tiger shrimp and it gave me this: Does kinda look like sunkist shrimps.....


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

ZID ZULANDER said:


> I am not seeing these shrimp on this site from the picture.


The pic didn't show up for me either. I had to go to the german site provided above download the doc then google translate to see....


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## Hobbes1911 (Mar 2, 2009)

imke said:


> Hi all,
> 
> maybe it is time to clear things up from somebody with German language skills.
> The PDF about the golden shrimp is a taxonomy report done by Andreas Karge and deals with a shrimp Michael Nadal sent to him.
> ...


Hi Imke, 

Question, according to the report by Karge he does conclude that the shrimp is a C. cantonensis. However, he also links the orange pigment to orange colored oil droplets found within the body with possible food born origin. He further states that he expects the offspring to be colorless, yet further research and breeding has to be done. I'm not an expert on shrimp whatsoever, but could you enlighten me please?


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## janftica (Jan 11, 2010)

guess not!!!


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## Hobbes1911 (Mar 2, 2009)

janftica said:


> guess not!!!


Im confused, what do you mean?


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

I'm working on getting some of these in a trade. I would be happy to document any and all findings I get on them. 

I really think that posting things someone heard from another in a different language is very dangerous and the posted should probably think about editing their comments. I know everybody wants to be the first to know anything about shrimp but posting unfounded and false information really discredits your reputation.


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## janftica (Jan 11, 2010)

If you are referring to my comment on what Michael Nadal said, then I think you had better go back and re-read what the original poster said. He mentioned that Michael Nadal a very well respected breeder in Germany did and article on them, however that was incorrect, as it was in fact Michael that purchased these shrimps from an LFS in Thailand over a year ago, but found them not to be what he had expected, so HE gave them to Werner Klotz to experiment with and write the article about them!

This is NOT unfounded or false information, but the *exact words* from Michael Nadal himself! I was interested as you and others are/were in these shrimps, and as I know Michael, I asked him about them. The words I typed here were his exact ones from my email. I choose to wait and see whether he was correct! 

If someone does manage to breed them in this orange color, then I will be in the front of the line to get some if they are still available, until then I will hold off purcasing any.

IF you choose to disregard this statement that is entirely your option, however please do not insinuate that I was giving out false information, as this is not the case.

IF anyone wants to go ahead and try out these shrimps that is entirely up to them, and IF you are in the process of making a trade for some, then that's up to you! No one is saying you can't purchase them or get them in trade, but only that the original owner of these shrimps in Germany did not find them to be what they were touted to be, and therefore gave them to someone else to try. 

We had the same thing happen with blue shrimps that people purchased and later on found out they did not breed true. 

I believe this forum is meant to provide information on different shrimp species/colors etc and by doing that it will help others to understand more about the shrimp they are obtaining! Therefore any and all information that is available on these shrimps should be shown and left up to the individual person to make their own decisions whether or not to go ahead with their endeavour.

As for my comment " guess not" it was in reply to Hobbes1911 request to IMKE for more information on what Karge has to say or if there is any update on these shrimps....she did not answer, which I took to mean NO more information is available or she would have posted it here.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

And then he got on this site above and said his friend had them and they didnt loose color? Or am I missing something?


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## janftica (Jan 11, 2010)

Well if that is the case, then great...maybe he can post pictures of the *baby shrimplets *so we can also see if the color is apparent from birth or does it only appear as they become adults. 

As with the TWFR shrimps, babies are red at birth, whereas the Cherries are pale and only get more color as they mature, maybe this species is the same. 

IF these orange tigers do reproduce the orange coloration, then I and I am sure others on here would LOVE to see what the baby shrimps look like! 

Until that time we only have one person's word that they do....for me that just isn't good enough, maybe for you it is, that's your choice!


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## janftica (Jan 11, 2010)

My other question was IF these were not available to the US market and were very rare as was stated....how did Michael Nadal manage to purchase some from an LFS in Thailand? 

Couldn't be *that rare* if they were being sold in a store, where anyone could buy them??? Hobbyists from all over the world frequent LFS so how did this particular LFS get them??? :icon_conf

Werner Klotz also mentioned astaxanthin...which is used by hobbyists who want to increase the coloration of the body of their fish! Maybe if these shrimps were fed astaxanthin the color went from blonde to orange??? 

Here is a partial article from Brine Shrimp Direct about what happens when you feed astaxanthin to shrimps

"Crustaceans and other aquatic animals are unable to produce astaxanthin de novo, only plants and protists (bacteria, algae, fungi) are capable of synthesizing carotenoids. Therefore astaxanthin must be available in either their native habitat or manufactured diet to meet metabolic nutritional requirements (Steven, D.M. 1948). 

In the natural aquatic environment, astaxanthin is biosynthesized in the food chain within microalgae or phytoplankton at the primary production level. 

The microalgae are consumed by zooplankton, insects or crustaceans which accumulate astaxanthin, and in turn are ingested by fish which then accrue astaxanthin. 

The majority of the astaxanthin within the epidermal tissue is in the mono-esterified form, meaning that one of the hydroxyl groups is esterified to a fatty acid. Whereas, complexes of carotenoids and proteins called carotenoproteins and carotenolipoproteins dominate in the exoskeleton. 

Astaxanthin appears as a red pigment, but when complexed with various proteins, the light absorbance shifts and *cause* crustaceans to range in color from *green, yellow, blue to brown.* Thus, despite the fact that astaxanthin is the chromophore prosthetic group of the different carotenoproteins, many colors can be achieved
"


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Everything you are basing your conclusions on is hearsay or just otherwise unproven info. Im not coming down on you personally it just so happens that the info you are spreading is this type of info. It happens all the time on the net, people spread info that is not true. Now weather you are portraying it as that I dont know but I can bet you that some people will look at it and take it as fact. 

Just like the old "too much nutrients are going to cause algae".


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## janftica (Jan 11, 2010)

So be it.....Caveat Emptor! Well Good Luck in your endeavour...let us all know when you've got orange tiger babies, and remember to document everything along with the pictures!


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## connordude27 (Jun 14, 2008)

These HAVE been imported into the United States. Infact before the japan earthquake if i remember right.


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

I've been lurking on this thread, so I will give my experiences. Hopefully this will clear somethings up.

I have a tank of 30 pieces. They are F1 from my source's tank. I got them when they were juvies. They were light orange to almost clear when I got them. 7 weeks later they have colored up nicely. All of them are deep orange, except for one piece. Females being a deeper color. I have 2 females saddled, we'll see if they have babies. They might not in the current tank because I had Ph issues and I am slowly fixing that. However, my personal stash is tank breed.

In my experience they are very hardy. The first 5 weeks consisted of dechlorinated tap until I found out something was buffering my water to 8.2ph. The last couple of weeks they've been getting the RO/DI/Tap mix with Mosura Mineral Plus. They seem much happier now that my Ph is back to the low 7s. They still saddled and grew with the high PH. I currently counted 27 at the last feeding. 

I feed them the full Mosura line and some Hikari sinking pellets, spiniach tabs from Liam and blanched vegs. Nothing special just a variety. 

Few things I know first hand:

1) My shrimps are not artificially colored.
2) My shrimps are tank breed. F1
3) My shrimps are not for sale.

That's my 2 cents.


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## ZID ZULANDER (Apr 15, 2008)

Let's see some pictures?Shrimpnmoss


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## yaouch (Aug 14, 2010)

Well said Shrimpnmoss.... was wondering when u gonna jump in, and BTW all the pictures I post on the first page is Shrimpnmoss actual shrimps...... I wanted the tank breed but guess it wasnt for sell so I opt to get a bag of WC ones which is being qt atm.... I will make sure they are well and healthy before I release them. 

Please keep in mind that this is just a hobby..... no need to fight over and if you like them then buy it, if not move on to something else.... These shrimps ARE extremely rare and I have NEVER seen it at any fish stores and believe me I've been to most fish store here in socal... Just b/c you can purchase them in a LFS in THAILAND doesnt mean that they sell these in the US. Unless you want to take a trip to Thailand and buy them.... I have friends/customers that are from Thailand and with money you can pretty much buy anything there, even things that are not for sell if you know what I mean. If you guys have any more questions regarding these shrimps feel free to ask, I will try my best to answer them. Like I said these are new to the hobby and not much info are out there so I do see the concerns. I too am trying to experiment with them and maybe try to cross breed them with my blonds to get better features.


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

The day I mentally decide that I'm going to break this tank down because of Ph issues. I even posted my Vals for sale on the SNS. I find this. Guess I'm not breaking this tank down for a while.

View attachment 30759


Ph 7.8
Temp 72-73
TDS 129


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

nice!


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## aelysa (Oct 20, 2006)

Sigh. So pretty. I want them but cantonensis just don't do very well for me  Keep them breeding!


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## disvegas (Aug 16, 2008)

Very cool shrimp!!! Imagine if those strips were long and thick and black, it would be priceless. very nice nonetheless!

disvegas,




shrimpnmoss said:


> The day I mentally decide that I'm going to break this tank down because of Ph issues. I even posted my Vals for sale on the SNS. I find this. Guess I'm not breaking this tank down for a while.
> 
> View attachment 30759
> 
> ...


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

disvegas said:


> Very cool shrimp!!! Imagine if those strips were long and thick and black, it would be priceless. very nice nonetheless!
> 
> disvegas,



Well if humans can turn black shrimps into red..and red shrimps into king kong/RW/blue bolt...and tigers into blue and black....someone will be able to refine these genes....this is the first step towards a "real" tiger...orange with black stripes....


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

I forgot about these. Did we come to an impasse or something?


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## aelysa (Oct 20, 2006)

shrimpnmoss said:


> Well if humans can turn black shrimps into red..and red shrimps into king kong/RW/blue bolt...and tigers into blue and black....someone will be able to refine these genes....this is the first step towards a "real" tiger...orange with black stripes....


Real tigers are so three weeks ago 









I love the tangerine colors of your tigers though, really neon. Love them!


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

Is that the same type as your icon??...i always though it was a calico shrimp...hehe...That looks very nice...I also like some of the crazy wild varieties that they are breeding in Germany...

Mine are not really neon in real life...more deep orange to tangerine color....it's the crappy point and shoot camera on aquarium mode....


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## aelysa (Oct 20, 2006)

You caught me, I'm cheating  It's a sulawesi, they come like that naturally. Yes, same type as my icon.

I am relying on you and Cam to keep this variety going so I can someday have them. Tigers never want to stay live for me


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

Well, I hope so too. As you know berry is only 1/2 way...I hope the babies survive in my ridiculous Ph....from what I've been reading the survivability of babies are higher in a lower Ph....nothing I can do now....they are getting RO with MMP...the best water possible...stupid Petco gravel buffering my Ph...

....but my new tank will be a proper environment for a new batch...


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## aelysa (Oct 20, 2006)

You might want to put some small mesh baggies of aquasoil in there, but maybe not since it leaches ammonia in the beginning. Good luck!


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

You are correct about AS leeching ammonia and I don't like using chemicals like Ph down especially in a shrimp tank. I'm still breaking this tank down...just more careful and slower. It's better if I just cycle a new tank with a proper active substrate for them.


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

I saw a mico-baby today....so small. One of the two preggos disappeared...I think she's hiding ready to kick them out. Will try to get a good picture later.

My water parameters are still pretty whacked out. Ph 7.8. Temp 70 to 74 (lights on). The tank did get up to 78 for a day when we had a heat wave in here. I took the light off promptly and the temp dropped back down. Everything else is pretty good though because I'm using RO but that darn gravel is buffering it back up.


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

Ooooo babies!!!


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## yellowsno (May 15, 2011)

picS!!!


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

Pics in SNS.


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## AlexW (Aug 3, 2008)

These shrimp are rad, I just picked up a dozen myself to see how they do... so cool right now just hope I can continue to keep them going!


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

I love mine. They've been going 4 months now and they have now breed. Really cool and different.


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## guppies (Jan 16, 2010)

Here is the real Orange Tiger !!!!


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

more brown than orange


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## guppies (Jan 16, 2010)

another pic


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## A.M. Aquatics (Apr 9, 2011)

Ehh........that's got a little orange in it, but I wouldn't call it an orange tiger.


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## MrFusion (May 20, 2011)

I have some culled blue tigers that same brown color. I bet I even know who you bought your blue tigers from. lol Definitely not as nice as those Tangerine Tigers.


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## guppies (Jan 16, 2010)

Fine fine fine it is a female dark blue oebt when you put her in a white substrate.


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## jlo (Oct 8, 2009)

Here are some more pictures of Tangerine tigers.
F1 Tank


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## funkyfish88 (Apr 8, 2011)

*Compatibility?*

Are these compatible with CRS and RCS? If not, is it due to interbreeding? or H2O parmeters?

Thanks for info.


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

They will breed with crs


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

mordalphus said:


> They will breed with crs


I thought Orange Sunkist were more like Amanos's and needed saltwater for the young, and therefore wouldn't breed with cherries?


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

These aren't Orange sunkist, they are tangerine tiger shrimp...


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

mordalphus said:


> These aren't Orange sunkist, they are tangerine tiger shrimp...


Ah, ok. The orange sunkist are the saltwater for babies though correct?


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

Yep


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## funkyfish88 (Apr 8, 2011)

*New Tank Setup*

Guess I may have to set up separate tank in the near future :icon_mrgr

Thanks Liam for the info.


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