# Why not chemical algae control?



## latchdan (Sep 7, 2007)

What does your brown algae look like?
I've made a thread a while back about filamentous diatoms, here is a link
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/23-algae/861546-i-think-i-finally-kicked-algae.html

What was causing this algae was an excess of micro ferts. I was adding *101g of csm+B to 500 ml of water* to achieve .5ppm of Iron. (5ml doses in 40b)
I was halving and even quartering my micros and still getting this algae. More light, less light, more co2, more macros, less macros nothing stopped it. 
I switched to seachem flourish comp for micros which is around .1ppm of iron and the problem went away. I was talking to another member and wondering why, he said to achieve the same iron levels for csm+b I would only need to mix* 26g of csm+b to 500 ml water.*

I switched back to csm+b with same mixture and problem never came back, I was battling this stuff for over a year. I dose 1ml per 10 gallons of actual tank water btw, in a high tech co2 tank.

To your other question about why not sure algae-cides I'm pretty sure that Tetras Algae Control only works on certain algae, mainly that thick green hairy stuff (don't remember name). I prolly will have no luck on brown algae.


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## Mr. Bean (Jul 10, 2016)

Wow...I checked out your previous post/pictures...it is exactly the same algae I have. I too have tried absolutely everything and it just keeps coming back. After planting, I inserted some of Niloc's clay capsules that have macros in them and then started using Nicloc's THRIVE liquid all in one. I started with the recommended dose of one squirt per 10 gallons and immediately started with the brown algae. I have now (in one month) reduced by light by half (down to 6 hours) and haven't added any/any THRIVE in two weeks. Many, many water changes and also use of H2O2 sprayed on plants I've cleaned off. Still comes back. And that's how I arrived at the Tetra Algae product...I"m just out of ideas and unlike you...do not mix my own ferts nor would I try or want to. One thing I would note, is I don't think either my capsules nor THRIVE have any iron in them at all, at the risk of sounding like a total nubie...is iron that important and could a lack of it actually contribute to algae??


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## Mr. Bean (Jul 10, 2016)

Correction, just checked the NilocG THRIVE label and it has some iron...


Analysis: N 3%, P 0.8%, K 9.4%, Fe 0.47%, Mg 0.62%, Cu 0.009%, B 0.23%, Co, 0.0002%, Mn 0.06%, Mo 0.0018%, Zn 0.016%


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## latchdan (Sep 7, 2007)

I don't think the Iron is what causes the problem but micros in general. Iron is what people base their mixtures off of. For instance if you want .5ppm of iron or .1.

Used this to determine my Iron levels. 
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/11-fertilizers-water-parameters/957049-flourish-csm-b.html
Its pretty easy to mix your own Micro fert if you have a small scale. 
It doesn't really matter which micro you use, they all been tested fairly well its just the amounts you need.

I would try reducing micros see what happens


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Mr. Bean said:


> Wow...I checked out your previous post/pictures...it is exactly the same algae I have. I too have tried absolutely everything and it just keeps coming back. After planting, I inserted some of Niloc's clay capsules that have macros in them and then started using Nicloc's THRIVE liquid all in one. I started with the recommended dose of one squirt per 10 gallons and immediately started with the brown algae. I have now (in one month) reduced by light by half (down to 6 hours) and haven't added any/any THRIVE in two weeks. Many, many water changes and also use of H2O2 sprayed on plants I've cleaned off. Still comes back. And that's how I arrived at the Tetra Algae product...I"m just out of ideas and unlike you...do not mix my own ferts nor would I try or want to. One thing I would note, is I don't think either my capsules nor THRIVE have any iron in them at all, at the risk of sounding like a total nubie...is iron that important and could a lack of it actually contribute to algae??


Well you helped solve part of your problem by reducing the photo period down from 12 hours. The light be on for that long was way to much especially for a newer system. 

I had the same problem when I stated my tank. What I did that solved it was by raising my light about 6 inches and manually removing as much of the algae everyday. For this, a old tooth brush works great for removing the algae.


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## Waterski (May 4, 2015)

The bigger question is how are the plants doing? Is there more growth? Are you dosing macros? Too much light is usually the culprit not too much fertilization


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## Mr. Bean (Jul 10, 2016)

This responds to a few of the comments above. Suggestion to reduce my micros...as I mentioned I stopped using my THRIVE micros two weeks ago so have already done that. Another is "how your plants doing"? Plants are growing but with this brown algae regularly reappearing and hanging on them. Lack of micro ferts is just now starting to show on the plants with colors starting to pale. Last...clean with a toothbrush? How do you clean delicate and small plants with a toothbrush?  

LASTLY....my original point/question was...why doesn't anyone talk about or apparently use commercial algae products like the Tetra I mentioned???


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## Chaz D (May 14, 2016)

Mr. Bean said:


> why doesn't anyone talk about or apparently use commercial algae products like the Tetra I mentioned???


I think it's because people want to know what error they're making (ex. too much or too little fertilization/lighting). The algae products will provide temporary rather than long term success. Your tank is new, in addition to that you are adding a lot of fish (12 rummy nose in a 24 gallon tank). You probably have some ammonia driving the algae growth, but not enough to show on a test kit or to have any major impact on your fish. It might take a bit for things to balance out, don't rush it.


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

8 week old tank with too much light for too long was in my view the catalyst.
A month ago according to previous post's, algae was reduced by reducing the lighting from 12 hours to 10.
Better to knock the lighting back to 6 hours (as you have done) for a couple month's till plant's have gotten a good start and tank has had a chance to mature a little.
8 week's is still a very new system for both the tank and the plant's.
Would dose fertz as directed, and perform weekly water changes.
CO2 to come on one hour before light's and go off one hour after light's go off.
Once you start chasing fertilizer dosing up/down,omitting this or that,there can be no stability from plant perspective and algae will find very nice environment.
Nothing wrong with decreasing or increasing this or that nutrient once you KNOW what you know.
Otherwise IMHO,is best to follow whatever dosing is suggested by whomever the fertz were purchased by or by whatever method of fertilizing you have chosen.


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## Mr. Bean (Jul 10, 2016)

Okay...all good input but I guess getting a nod for commercial algae products is like getting Hillary to admit guilt! )

I'm at zero ammonia and nitrites and <5ppm nitrate. Light is 6 hours and already CO2 is on an hour earlier but off when the lights go out. I like the idea of moving the lights up several inches and will do that today; this Finnex Ray2 is very strong and even at reduced times may still be overkill. I didn't mention it but the brown algae is a bigger problem on the baby tears and dwarf hair grass than the larger rooted plants in the back half of the tank. Not what I would expect if light were the cause because they are further from the light than the big guys. A little spooked by restarting the micro fert in the water column but did a half dose this morning before work, plants are starting to show the lack of nourishment so I have no choice. Tinker, tinker...one day this will all be a bad memory and the planets will all be aligned. Right?


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## Smooch (May 14, 2016)

Mr. Bean said:


> Okay...all good input but I guess getting a nod for commercial algae products is like getting Hillary to admit guilt! )


LMAO! I'll pass on the political commentary, however, if you said that you are using Excel in a attempt to beat back the algae, you'd get all the nods you could handle. 

There are a few peeps around here that claim CO2 is algae control. I don't know where that myth came from, but as you can see, CO2 does not do that.

As your tank matures, there will be more tinkering in your future. Don't get too comfy. :grin2:


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## Mr. Bean (Jul 10, 2016)

Enlighten me SMOOCH...why EXCEL, what's the advantage of EXCEL? And, what the heck is LMAO???


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

Mr. Bean said:


> Okay...all good input but I guess getting a nod for commercial algae products is like getting Hillary to admit guilt! )
> 
> I'm at zero ammonia and nitrites and <5ppm nitrate. Light is 6 hours and already CO2 is on an hour earlier but off when the lights go out. I like the idea of moving the lights up several inches and will do that today; this Finnex Ray2 is very strong and even at reduced times may still be overkill. I didn't mention it but the brown algae is a bigger problem on the baby tears and dwarf hair grass than the larger rooted plants in the back half of the tank. Not what I would expect if light were the cause because they are further from the light than the big guys. A little spooked by restarting the micro fert in the water column but did a half dose this morning before work, plants are starting to show the lack of nourishment so I have no choice. Tinker, tinker...one day this will all be a bad memory and the planets will all be aligned. Right?


 
The taller plant's have better access to CO2 gas for the gas will always be higher in the water column as it tries to rise up and out of the tank.
This may be why the carpet plant's or those lower in the water column suffer, while those higher in the water column have better access to the Gas.
Often can move drop checker lower in the tank and different area's and see that the CO2 is maybe not as abundant as it is higher in the tank.
good circulation is needed to al area's and can position spray bar's or power heads to try and create better flow to lower region's.


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## Smooch (May 14, 2016)

Mr. Bean said:


> Enlighten me SMOOCH...why EXCEL, what's the advantage of EXCEL? And, what the heck is LMAO???


LMAO: Laughing my a$$ off. If the "a" word ends up being censored after I click post, it's the other word for a donkey or the thing a person sits on. 

Flourish Excel is sold to the masses a a carbon source, but really it is glutaraldehyde which is a cleaner used for medical equipment among other things. 

Depending on who you listen to, it is perfectly safe to use while others say it isn't. Seachem claims that it is okay to use in small amounts with tanks planted with things such as jungle val, while hobbyists have claimed with mixed results whether that is true or not. 

There are plenty that have killed their fish and plants with the more is more mentality. It says on the bottle "Do not overdose' but some people have to see how far they can take something before things fall apart. 

I'm not a fan of Excel. It serves no other purpose than a band aid to a problem that needs to be addressed. 

Use with caution if you opt to give it a try, along with any other 'algae killers'. People have been known to kill fish simply by using too much hydrogen peroxide in their tanks.


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## Mr. Bean (Jul 10, 2016)

Smooch...Thanks for LMAO clarification and EXCEL comment. And who told you I killed my Betta with H2O2 after accidentally blasting it in his face as he peeked out of a bushy plant I was de-algafing??? 

Roadmaster....good scoop on the CO2. I have my diffuser below the spray bar, but its still halfway up the tank. I'll slide it down to the bottom to maximize absorption...you may have hit on something there! thanks


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## Smooch (May 14, 2016)

Mr. Bean said:


> Smooch...Thanks for LMAO clarification and EXCEL comment. And who told you I killed my Betta with H2O2 after accidentally blasting it in his face as he peeked out of a bushy plant I was de-algafing???


Nobody; sorry for the loss. 

Here's a tip if you want to use H202 in the future: Only use it on plants that can be easily removed from the tank. Treating plants outside of the tank is safer, prevents fish deaths and if you use too much, it only affects the plant and not the entire tank.

The same could be said for Excel or any other algae killer.


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## Mr. Bean (Jul 10, 2016)

Ahhhh, yes, and that's exactly what I did that led to my ick outbreak covered in my other post you've responded to. Damned if you do, damned if you don't! I will however, continue to remove a plant if possible if I have to use H2O2 and be as non-disruptive as possible..


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

Mr. Bean said:


> Smooch...Thanks for LMAO clarification and EXCEL comment. And who told you I killed my Betta with H2O2 after accidentally blasting it in his face as he peeked out of a bushy plant I was de-algafing???
> 
> Roadmaster....good scoop on the CO2. I have my diffuser below the spray bar, but its still halfway up the tank. I'll slide it down to the bottom to maximize absorption...you may have hit on something there! thanks


 Yes,If the drop checker is lime green in color high on the glass indicating good,and changes to blue or blue green lower In the tank, or on opposite end of tank from diffuser,then one might not have the CO2 concentration or distribution that the believe they have to all area's.


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