# totally new to this planted tank stuff, need help.



## posmlady (May 24, 2013)

Lets put it this way, I had goldfish for 12 years in a blank tank.just lost last one. Now I want to try live breeders with plants. I know none of the speak here. I got like 12 different plants, supposedly all low light. I have a single t8 bulb from flora sun 5000? Is this good enough?


----------



## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Welcome to the forum.

What size tank do you have/what are the tank's dimensions?

If you aren't sure of the plants you have, posting photos can help.

In all likelihood, you're probably fine with what you've got but everyone here on the forum will definitely be able to help with a bit more info.


----------



## posmlady (May 24, 2013)

*it's a 55 gallon*

As you can see, needs lots of work, any and all advice wanted. Well you could see if I could figure out how to upload on here.


----------



## MrSlumpy (Jan 4, 2013)

You can upload images to a photo sharing site and link them in your post.

I usually use http://imgur.com/ to host photos. You don't even need to create an account if you don't feel like it.

Once you get the images uploaded, you can copy the public link from imgur and insert it into the post. The easiest way is to use the insert image button up on the posting toolbar ^. Paste the URL and you're done.


----------



## Steve001 (Feb 26, 2011)

posmlady said:


> Lets put it this way, I had goldfish for 12 years in a blank tank.just lost last one. Now I want to try live breeders with plants. I know none of the speak here. I got like 12 different plants, supposedly all low light. I have a single t8 bulb from flora sun 5000? Is this good enough?


The first thing you have to do is change your understanding of what this hobby is. That change requires you think in terms of, this is, aquatic horticulture and the fish are more rightly thought of decorations. 
I'd heartily implore you to pick up some books on this hobby. Book reading is necessary because you'll find many forum opinions tossed at you telling you what you should and should not do. Some opinings are good many aren't. So, get some books, look at planted aquarium sites and acquire a good knowledge base before you jump into the pool. When you've done that come on in cause the waters fine.


----------



## majorwoo (Dec 25, 2012)

Steve001 said:


> The first thing you have to do is change your understanding of what this hobby is. That change requires you think in terms of, this is, aquatic horticulture and the fish are more rightly thought of decorations.
> I'd heartily implore you to pick up some books on this hobby. Book reading is necessary because you'll find many forum opinions tossed at you telling you what you should and should not do. Some opinings are good many aren't.


Not to argue with you as you've clearly been here longer then me, but I don't think you have to go to that extreme - I think you can easily view the plants and fish as equally important inhabitants of your tank. Now, I agree that you can't just throw live plants in a "fish" tank and expect them to do well .

For me, I planted my tank because I thought it would make a more natural environment for my fish and would give me some more depth to my hobby, not because I wanted to have ornamental fish in my plant tank


----------



## posmlady (May 24, 2013)

<img src="http://i.imgur.com/fSTNM8i.jpg" alt="" title="Hosted by imgur.com" />



See if this worked


----------



## posmlady (May 24, 2013)

<a href="http://imgur.com/vIfEVLJ" title="Hosted by


----------



## posmlady (May 24, 2013)




----------



## posmlady (May 24, 2013)

Ok, so there is my tank. I bought some substrate yesterday to put in before I plant them. I was told to do a good gravel vac first, because I can't after I plant. Wondering if this is true? I'm doing this to try and make my tank look good, to make a good habitat for fish and to breed live bearers. I have always been successful with fish , just not plants.thus why I'm here.


----------



## majorwoo (Dec 25, 2012)

Yup, pictures came through. You may want to remove the plastic pots to allow the roots to spread out - and as you are using gravel, you'll probably want root tabs for those sword plants. 

If that is bamboo in the back, I think you should be careful. Most bamboo I've seen sold isn't really an aquatic plant and will hang on submerged for awhile but eventually die. If you read around there is a lot of talk about bamboo in tanks. I've not had any personally.


----------



## posmlady (May 24, 2013)

Ya I wasn't sure about the bamboo, I know they are used in beta tanks, but the leaves are usually above water. I saw some nice ones in tank at the fish store, so I decided to try and put one of mine in tank itself. I was gonna take the plants out when I plant them. I have some tabs coming in mail.and I was gonna put substrate in back of tank to plant in.


----------



## Steve001 (Feb 26, 2011)

majorwoo said:


> Not to argue with you as you've clearly been here longer then me, but I don't think you have to go to that extreme - I think you can easily view the plants and fish as equally important inhabitants of your tank. Now, I agree that you can't just throw live plants in a "fish" tank and expect them to do well .
> 
> For me, I planted my tank because I thought it would make a more natural environment for my fish and would give me some more depth to my hobby, not because I wanted to have ornamental fish in my plant tank


Ah, grasshopper, you have much to learn.


----------



## posmlady (May 24, 2013)

Steve, like I said any and all advice welcome. The two people I spoke to at different shops gave completely different advice. One said the T8 tube was good for all plants, as it produced sunlight comparable lighting. The other said I need to spend around $$150 and get a new hood with a new bulb set, and needed $400 or so worth of co2 equipment. I'm not looking for a masterpiece, just nice healthy plants and fish. What steps would you take if wanting the same?


----------



## majorwoo (Dec 25, 2012)

It will depend on the tank size/depth and what kind of plants you want to grow, before you can decide how much lighting you will need.


----------



## acitydweller (Dec 28, 2011)

Hi posmlady,

Here are some thoughts for consideration.

darker finer substrates are easier for plants to establish their roots while also contrasting nicely against the plants.

consider having about 2.5-3" of substrate thickness at the most shallow point.

planted tanks always cope better when more densely planted. the nutrient uptake is higher and it generally makes for a more appealing aquascape.

consider getting a plant oriented florescent bulb for your current light fixture. something which gives off a 6500-7000k color temperature. this would make your plants very happy.


----------



## posmlady (May 24, 2013)

It's a normal 55 gallon, so what, 48"x13"x21""? Anything I can keep green and healthy and is good for fish.


----------



## posmlady (May 24, 2013)

acitydweller said:


> Hi posmlady,
> 
> Here are some thoughts for consideration.
> 
> ...



So I should take back the 5000 T8 one I got, and get a higher one? Will that fit in same hood? And the more plants the better? What about putting substrate on or mixed with gravel? Or should I remove gravel altogether?


----------



## posmlady (May 24, 2013)

Can you use a soda stream canister for co2?


----------



## posmlady (May 24, 2013)

Another question I just thought of if I replace all the gravel and use the finer substrate, will that not hinder my under gravel filter system I already have in place? I bought an over the top filter also the waterfall type, but not sure if that's good for plants or live breeders which is what I plan on having?


----------



## Steve001 (Feb 26, 2011)

posmlady said:


> Another question I just thought of if I replace all the gravel and use the finer substrate, will that not hinder my under gravel filter system I already have in place? I bought an over the top filter also the waterfall type, but not sure if that's good for plants or live breeders which is what I plan on having?


 An undergravel filter serves no real purpose in a well planted tank. A well planted tank should have 80% or more of the substrate covered in plants from the start to combat algae throughout the life of the tank. Look up the term _guttation_. This process also takes place in submerged aquatic plants [ see ole pederson's site]. It is an important process to understand because it has a direct impact within the substrate. Relating to the undergravel filter. Remember what I said. Start thinking in terms of aquatic horticulture. Not a fish tank with plants. A planted aquarium is an entirely different beast from a fish tank.


----------



## Aquaticz (Dec 26, 2009)

suggestion....look around this site and others as well as U tube for some ideas on what you like 
If money was not an issue I would recommend aqua soil, get the right light for you tank size , get a cannister filter and you would be ready to dose frets and watch em grow 
Good Luck 
Ask ..ask.. ask... that is how most of us learned...Ahhh and one last thing - welcome


----------



## posmlady (May 24, 2013)

I tried browsing around on some different sites and such..but found I need to learn the"jargon" to understand a lot of it. So I came here to learn. So, when doing water changes with plants, do I only vacuum the top now? I had goldfish, so I had to vacuum everything all the time.


----------



## Aquaticz (Dec 26, 2009)

Folks with planted tanks do not typically vacuum as you did with the goldfish. There's a very good reasons for this  and that is the root system for the plants get to damage every time you stick that plastic tube down into the substrate.
You will find opinions on just about everything. 
I was somewhat lucky and meet a pro on a yahoo site. He got me going ( that SOB....lol) .So I am going to suggest that you find a teacher with experience that can guide you. Once you sort of get it, you can fine tune from there. In the mean time....read, read, read. Pick a subject and get educated. I suggested Aqua soil, the reason is that after it initially leaches the ammonia , your plants will grow like crazy....but...you HAVE to have the "right" light. This can get expensive. Buy the best you can afford. You have a tank. What do you think you should change first? 

I will also say that I used river rock gravel for many years and was able to grow things like swords and the like...just not any of the more desirable species ( hair grass for instance). I had canister filters from raising turtles for 20 + years. I also had good Eheim heaters- I went for the lights and did a diy for lack of money. Since that time ...everything has been upgraded. That is why I say buy the best you can afford...it will give you better service. For many years being a cheap skate that I am I refused to buy any the best canister filter because it was so expensive. So instead over the next few years I bought a few cheap canisters. I should of bought Eheim canister to begin with. 

I would expect that this post will get differing opinions that's why I said to find someone ,who ever it is and let them get you going.


----------



## posmlady (May 24, 2013)

So since I have some plants and some substrate, I'd have to read the name, but is a finer black material in like a 10 pound bag. I paid $33 for one bag! I'm guessing I need like for to five more? Haven't put it in tank yet how is that comparable to the aqua soil? How much a should I get for a 55? Right now with the T8 on for like 14 our so hours, the new plants I have seem to be enjoying it. So I think I need to start with substrate, then light. I'll wait for fish until I get it set up and running good.


----------



## EngineChauffer (Apr 3, 2013)

OK, keep in mind I am trying to help you do this without trashing all of what you have. You can certainly re-use or re-purpose your equipment that you have now. That's part of the fun of it, coming up with ways you can do this within your budget and to best attain the results that you want.

I know it is overwhelming to try to figure all this out. It was for me just recently when I got back into the hobby. Just keep in mind this is a fantastic opportunity to create your own beautiful world. Is there a tank here in the tank journal section that inspires you, maybe catches your eye? Something you would like to emulate? Link it so we know what direction you would like to go. Do you have a budget in mind to get all this done? That helps us put a frame of reference so we can recommend things that would work best all the while keeping you in your comfort zone.

People are gonna recommend that you go and purchase all new stuff because what you have is "wrong" in their opinion. You CAN use an UG filter with a planted tank, in fact I am doing it right now if you you would like to look at my journal (I need to update it). I also had a very successful planted 55g years ago with the same type of filter setup that I use now. Here is how I set mine up:

I mixed flourite "red" substrate with my regular (medium sized) aquarium gravel, about 60% gravel and 40% flourite. You could also use Eco-Complete instead of flourite. I used "natural" colored gravel to better blend in. When you look at gravel at your local fish store (LFS as it is called here) you will notice there are many different sizes. Think about your UG filter and get something that will in no way impede or fall through it. Honestly that gravel you have is...well...ugly. Plain gravel is cheap so I would recommend getting something that looks more natural to your eye and mix it. This will help you save money and provide a nice substrate for your plants to root in and they will draw some of the nutrients from the flourite/eco-complete and fish waste/plant matter and help them grow. I then "capped" in another words, put a top layer of the fine substrate (eco-complete) on top of the mixed gravel/flourite. It has been working very well.

If you look at my setup, you will see I connected where the updraft tubes are supposed to be on the UG filter to the intakes of my hang-on-back filters (referred to as HOB here). This allows the flow of water through your UG filter over the bed of beneficial bacteria that will form there and into your hang on back filters where you can add your choice of: carbon to clean/polish the water, BioBalls to foster even more beneficial bacteria, or other filter medium. There are many. Some like Seachem Purigen that does the same job as carbon, only better and can be "recharged". You could add bags of Cuprisorb which removes copper to ensure the health of your livestock, etc. The choices are endless.

I have two HOB filters drawing from my UG filter full time, another comes on only at night with an airstone to help the plants/livestock get their oxygen at night. During the day plants use CO2 and nutrients and make O2 and grow. At night, plants use O2 to sustain them until the next light cycle. This is why it is important in my mind to run an airstone at night. Some people prefer to do it all day, I don't. That's the beauty of it, as long as what you are doing is working, and making you, your fish and plants healthy and happy then go for it.

Whew that was a long write up for me. Anyway, next onto lighting. I will ask a question to get it started, what is your budget? If you are not going to go pressurized CO2, I would stay far away from the "high light"(high par) fixtures. You would want to stick to medium light. Way back when, on my 55g I had two double light fixtures running (4) 40 watt lights as a reference. I didn't use CO2 back then just liquid fertilizers as I do now and it worked very well.


----------



## stlouisan (Jun 8, 2006)

One question I'd add to Enginechauffer post is where is your tank located? If it happens to get decent natural light from a window, you may be able to set up a natural planted tank. For me, minimal setup, DIY substrate, not filter or lighting...minimal maintenance. Take a quick search on Diana Walstad planted tanks, natural planted, or Dutch style tanks. Maybe this route would work for you.


----------



## posmlady (May 24, 2013)

Engine chauffeur, my tank is about 22 feet away from a large bay window. Used to be right next to it, but way roi much algae growth so I moved it. I know gravel is ugly, was thinking adding the black might make it look good, but haven't done it yet to see. I did put favorites up.quickly as I'm on my break at work. I'm not sure how to view your tanks,I did try though. My budget is kind of up in the air,I don't want to spend tons, but enough to have a nice tank to try breeding some small live breeders? Or? Not really positive on that yet.


----------



## EngineChauffer (Apr 3, 2013)

I don't know what to say to your reply posm, I browsed back over this thread and didn't see where you linked to OTHER peoples tanks you like. You kinda put the cart before the horse going and buying plants before getting the tank setup to how you would like it. If I were you I would put the plants in a 5gal bucket with a couple of cheap clip on lights with some screw-in ccfl lights to keep them alive when you do decide to redo the tank. I would empty the tank, scoop out all of the substrate and replace it with a mix and cap or whatever you choose to do. This would be the time to hook your filter intake to your UG filter. Get your hardscape the way you want it (rocks/driftwood etc.), then fill and plant the tank. It will have to cycle for a bit then you can add livestock later. It is most important to plant heavily from the beginning so I would focus on that first as well as addressing your light issue at the same time. Start dosing ferts after a day or two of the plants settling in. Look at the Seachem line to get started...Flourish, Flourish Excel, Iron and Potassium.

As far as lights go, what would you like to do? Retrofit your stock hoods? Buy a solution such as LED? What?

You can see my tank (I only have one at the moment) if you click on the link down below my replies in my signature (A signature is a forum feature where you can "sign" your posts with info....most use this area to share their tank journals)


----------



## posmlady (May 24, 2013)

Oh duh,I just saw the link to your journal! If you look at favorites I put on mine, they look similar to yours. I like it


----------



## posmlady (May 24, 2013)

I thought when I chose favorites they would show up. But my choices were similar to what yours looks like.when I started with this idea,I was just gonna getty some plants and sine fish and be done with it. Because my last goldfish I had that I got to help cycle my tank 12 years ago just passed last week. Then when I was looking for good plants and how to care for then, my thoughts changed to making a good tank, instead of just a tank to look ok in my front room. Before I got it, it was an empty tank with 2 oscars that my mom didn't want anymore. Thus the ugly gravel that came with it.so, here I am with like 10 plants, and I need to work on getting it set up slowly. Right now I'm really suck and off from work for a couple days. I have a two year old soon I have to work around, cuz if he sees me"playing" in the tank, he will want to also.he already thinks my moss balls are actual balls ! LOL.so slow is best right now. I don't think the plants would be too happy in a bucket for that long.none of them are really planted, just kinda loose like they were in the store.


----------



## EngineChauffer (Apr 3, 2013)

LOL, I have a 6 and 3 1/2yr old so I know what you mean. It is hard to carve out time to do this. I meant WHEN you decide to change the substrate that is how I would do it...sorry, I didn't mean throw them in a bucket right now, just when you are actually doing the switch. Didn't meant to confuse you. Just trying to offer suggestions and help. Anyway...good luck in whatever you do.


----------



## posmlady (May 24, 2013)

I was told by a tank shop that I needed to get a new hood. I'm not sure if I can retrofit the original good or not, just because I have to really fiddle with the light I just got to get it to turn on. I'm not sure if the fittings are damaged or what? But if I can fix this one for less than getting a new one,I think that would be awesome.I do have a homedepot right near me and can do pretty much any diy projects if I have proper instructions.


----------



## posmlady (May 24, 2013)

No thanks,I appreciate it.I think I'm gonna review all suggestions, them decide what to do next, them I'll take picture from there and see what I get after that.


----------



## posmlady (May 24, 2013)

I really like the look of the mosses and grass. I saw some cool moss on ebay, from johor malaysia, but I didn't order any cuz a lot of reviews showed they got dead plants. Now when I look it up, it's not there anymore? So not sure the name


----------



## majorwoo (Dec 25, 2012)

For those looking for her tank:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/yourtanks.php?do=viewuser&id=87890


----------



## majorwoo (Dec 25, 2012)

As far as lighting, if you want to go the DIY route you can do something like this to modify your existing hood:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=203066&highlight=

But you will get more light from CFL's mounted vertically, in which case just buy some clip on lights from home depot, I have the ones I used here:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showpost.php?p=3351946&postcount=39


----------



## Aquaticz (Dec 26, 2009)

posmlady said:


> So since I have some plants and some substrate, I'd have to read the name, but is a finer black material in like a 10 pound bag. I paid $33 for one bag! I'm guessing I need like for to five more? Haven't put it in tank yet how is that comparable to the aqua soil? How much a should I get for a 55? Right now with the T8 on for like 14 our so hours, the new plants I have seem to be enjoying it. So I think I need to start with substrate, then light. I'll wait for fish until I get it set up and running good.


Careful about cycling with a new substrate- what is it called?
photo period to long in my opinion- what do others think?


----------



## ForensicFish (May 19, 2013)

First of, welcome to the forum and the world of planted tanks. 

The first lesson I have learned on my planted tank journeys are to research, research and do more research. Then, this forum is a great place to bounce information you have learned through your research off others that have had similar experiences. Each planted tank is their own monster/world with their own unique characteristics. Just because someone suggests something doesn't mean it will work for your tank. With that said, I'll start with a few places to start.

The difference between high light and low light plants, I.e the difference in lighting needs of a crytopcoryne type plant versus glossy etc.

Based on what you learned about high and low light plants, you can then venture on to learning about lighting systems such as T5 and LEDs. Make sure to research PAR values of the lights and not watts per gallon.

Next, I would recommend researching different substrates. The substrates I.e. your gravel, sand etc have different purposes, pros and cons and some can provide your plants with nutrients while others cannot.

Next, I would look into CO2 injection for aquariums. I won't go into any detail here because it will only confuse you. Just read and take your time.

Filtration on a planted tank is easy in my opinion. Filtration in a planted tank is only for water circulation and collecting large and small debris to clear your water.

Lastly, look up the nitrogen cycle to learn how an aquarium ecosystem works, especially with planted tanks. When you start to get the basics down then. You can get into the terms of dosing etc.

Start slow, research a lot. Ask a lot of questions. Search for your own answers first before everyone tells you theirs. A lot of us started exactly where you did, baby steps.

As far as your current tank, just take the black plastic off the bottom of your plants along with that wool wrapping and stick the plants in your gravel. 

Have fun, expect bumps in the road.

Cheers.


----------



## posmlady (May 24, 2013)

So the substrate I got, is black flourite? I paid $32!!! For it,a teen pound bag elsewhere I just found for lees than half that! I sure got suckered! Is this a good substrate? Or should I return it and get credit in plants? That bigger plant I have is loving my tank, but I don't know what it's called,I think it's supposed to have high light? All my plants I got are turning a deep green, and the fern weed has already doubled in quantity.


----------



## posmlady (May 24, 2013)

Make that 15.4 pounds, but still?


----------



## majorwoo (Dec 25, 2012)

Flourite is good substrate, but it is expensive. You will still need to add fertilizers, because it doesn't have any of it's own - but think of it like a sponge. It will hold excess fertilizers, and release them back to the plants - unlike gravel that will not. I used it in my first planted tank, and I didn't use it this last time - not because it was bad, but because in a larger tank it's just too expensive.


----------



## posmlady (May 24, 2013)

So what I decided to do is make a design with the flourite on top of my gravel and put my plants in it? Kinda hard though, as when you put it in it turns water cloudy.so I did a water change, cleaned my filters (ug) and tried to start my design. I left some out so I can hopefully fill in design when cloudiness goes away. We a shall see I guess. I'm hoping this will work ok. Otherwise I will fill in more later. I read in a few places that as long as you have a good substrate on top of your gravel with the ug filter I should be ok? However, my next step, hopefully tomorrow will be putting the side filter on back for added cleanliness. Will put a picture of what I did when water clears.


----------



## posmlady (May 24, 2013)

OK, have another problem now. Since I cleaned my power heads, they are running extremely hard. I'm guessing this is not good for plants? Dumb question I'm sure, but is there a way to turn them down, or should I turn them off during certain times?


----------



## ForensicFish (May 19, 2013)

Fragile plants wont like the extra flow from your power heads. But the current plants you have in there now should be fine. Just because you think the power head is running extremely hard, doesn't mean it is running a current that strong in your tank. Water movement is deceiving. Flourite is a good substrate, as you might have found out, it is quite dusty. Depending on which route you choose to go. You can either leave it on top of your current gravel or mix it in with your current gravel. I prefer to put my fluorite on the very bottom just so I know that the 30 dollars I spent is actually reaching my plant roots. I would recommend removing your undergravel filter with the more plants you acquire.


----------



## majorwoo (Dec 25, 2012)

The finer substrate will always settle to the bottom eventually, the larger one will end up on top. I wouldn't worry a whole lot about trying to keep them separate. But as you found out, it is very dusty. It will go away in a few days, or there are many products to speed it along (filter floss will mechanically remove it, there are chemical products.. but I would just let it sit for a few days with your filters - that's all I did)


----------



## posmlady (May 24, 2013)

What type of plants are hardy and grow well? I was looking at some led lights last night on ebay,I think they were something like 6500-10,000? Expandable for like $60 or so. Would this be a good idea, or would I then need co2?


----------



## posmlady (May 24, 2013)

I really like the look of the mosses and the finer grasses.


----------



## posmlady (May 24, 2013)

majorwoo said:


> The finer substrate will always settle to the bottom eventually, the larger one will end up on top. I wouldn't worry a whole lot about trying to keep them separate. But as you found out, it is very dusty. It will go away in a few days, or there are many products to speed it along (filter floss will mechanically remove it, there are chemical products.. but I would just let it sit for a few days with your filters - that's all I did)


Man you're not kidding!! It is like adding dirt to my tank! Hopefully I can get the rest where I want it tomorrow. But I think it's gonna be a week before it will get clear enough to take a good picture too share.if my words ever come up weird, it's because I'm using swype and well I don't always pay close attention too what it types.anyway I'm gonna try and get out looking cool or at least kind of and clear, then I'll take a picture to share. Would it be pay to get my own drift wood and put in tank, or is there a process? Just cuz it's like $30-50 for a piece of driftwood I can get for free off the beach.


----------



## majorwoo (Dec 25, 2012)

Anything you put in your tank can bring something you didn't want to as well - bacteria, salt, etc. So many people believe in treating things before they go in your tank - for driftwood a popular treatment is boiling it - or if it's too large to boil soak it for a few weeks in a tub - some do bleach treatments, others don't, etc. It really depends on who you ask what they will tell you honestly. 

As for the lighting on ebay, you need to look around at what plants you want to grow so you know how much light you need, so you can answer the co2 question. Everythign grows better with CO2 it's just that some are nearly impossible without CO2 and high light. Generally speaking low light - no co2 needed, medium light - you might need co2 to avoid algea problems, high light will need co2 or have algea.

If you like the fine grasses - look at dwarf hairgrass - see how that looks to you?


----------



## ForensicFish (May 19, 2013)

Keep in mine the finer grasses more than likely require med to high lighting and CO2 injection. If you are looking at spending around 60.00 for an LED light, you should look into the finnex fugeray. Mosses will do well in just about any light, just remember to tie them to something. Again I encourage you to take your time and do more research.


----------



## posmlady (May 24, 2013)

Thanks, hopefully gonna get out to a couple fish stores in next couple days and pick some brains, study supplies and then see if I can find things cheaper online. My tank is a little clearer, but looks even more barren now as I only have the plants I put in there already. Need to add the test of the flourite and plant some more plants, let it settle and see what's next.I did have a horrible problem with algae before I moved tank to other side of ruin away from bay window.I also had kept the light peru much off for a couple months.soooo now I'm just waiting for it to show up again.is the best way to kill it by co2 our is there another way without harming plants or fish?


----------



## majorwoo (Dec 25, 2012)

Too much light causes algae, unless you have enough fast growing plants to take up the light/nutrients. Direct sunlight is famous for causing algae for that reason. CO2 doesn't actually kill the algae (well if you are using Excel as your CO2 source perhaps it does) but it gives the plants what they are missing in order to out compete the algae for the nutrients in the water.


----------



## Aquaticz (Dec 26, 2009)

Many use Metricide 14 as an algaecide especially in CO2 tanks


----------



## Jahn (Apr 26, 2013)

Hi posmlady! Don't get discouraged, you're actually at an advantage since you're used to keeping fish (I had to learn all about the nitrogen cycle) and have a big tank (less prone to crashing due to changes in the tank, I have a 20 gallon high). I started with my kids a month ago from scratch (link to my journal here in my signature) and I'll leave the fish parts out, but what was helpful to me was this:

1) Before putting in anything, get an idea of what you want your hardscape to look like. We imagined a petrified wood scene presenting an orange mountain range, with a mix of red and green flora with none dominating the other. To the left would be the lush part, to the right would be more of a desert feel. In other words, before having any plants take root, know where you want to put everything, generally. This includes subtrate used for terrain changes, like a slope from front to back, and hills going laterally from left to right in the foreground, and what type of plants make for good front, middle, and back layers for low, medium and high plants - and would they be grassy and bushy in the front, and long thin stems but densely packed in the back, stuff like that. Oh, and where you could put plants to hide any equipment and wires that would be visible from the front and sides.

2) Choose the substrate. Bigger chunks stay on top and finer grains sift to the bottom, and everything settles and packs down. Thus, we put fine-grain Fluval Shrimp Stratum on the bottom, and Eco-Complete on the top. One mistake here was not putting styrofoam on the bottom glass first, to cushion any rocks or petrified wood we would put here first (we would have put the rocks/petrified wood in before the substrate, but they weren't shipped to us in time)

3) Equipment. Ours was a 20 gallon, so we got an HOB (Hang Over the Back) Fluval Aquaclear 30, which was strong enough for a 30 gallon but could be dialed down. We actually keep it full blast now, to get past all the background plants, but that's for later. Take out the carbon/charcoal filter since that stuff takes out fertilizers in the water too I think. We only pop it in to remove medicines in the water that we're done with. Also get a pre-filter sponge for your filter's intake tube. Planted tanks get a lot of random floating things in the water like old leaf parts that will get sucked into the tube otherwise. We got a fluval heater that is adjustable (initially got an auto-heat tetra one, a mistake), and a digital thermometer (leave the antenna in the tank wherever, read it from the outside.) With kids, a full covered hood was needed, and we later replaced the factory light fixture with an LED light that fit right on top of the hood's glass.

4) Dosing. At first we went low tech, with just the standard flourescent full spectrum light, and dosed API CO2 booster and Flourish Complete for the plants. With no response from the plants, and honestly some melting of the poor green cabomba, we decided to just go all in, which in the long run saves money and in nine days saw a huge growth in plants. We got a 5 pound CO2 pressurized tank, bought the regulator system here on the forums, got the LED lights, got the PP2-Pro dry fertilizer program on the forums. Also got API root tabs to stick in the substrate near plants. Plant growth explosion! You have to balance light, CO2, and Fertilizers - too much light and not enough of the rest=algae explosion, for instance.

5) Tools and monitoring. We were now in the need to manicure the lawn and clip the hedges, so to speak. Getting long pincettes and curved scissors really really helped keep things trimmed. For plants, we got a phosphate water test kit, and there is a TDS meter coming, to make certain we have enough nutrients in the water for the plants. We also used a lot of lead plant anchors - these things float away until rooted! For moss, we found it helpful to put a tiny tiny dot of superglue gel on cholla wood logs to anchor it (too much glue on our first try resulted in a nasty white smeared mess look underwater, yuck). Oh, and paper towels are your friend. You will find yourself getting into the tank a lot, so water gets all over. Plus, you need somewhere to put all the floating dead plant parts while you're working in the tank. Also, you will get a protein film on the surface of your water that you can lift off by using a paper towel and just putting it on the water and lifting off - your floating plants won't come with it, but the film will.

6) Algae. Some of the plants we got from the stores and donations had algae of all types on it. Some was just so bad we just tossed it. Others we tried to plant, but if it looked it it was taking over and killing the plants off, we tossed. Some were just bad and too far gone on some leaves - we clipped those off, some plants leaving only one tiny new shoot haha. Those grew back algae free. Some even had algae on the roots, in the substrate. Pluck those off. One mess of java moss had it ALL over, we tried to save it by washing it in a combo of CO2 booster and Flourish, but all that did was brown the entire mossball and kill it, so we tossed it. We did the same to a leaf plant, that leaf browned too, forget it. Another leaf we tried the Arm and Hammer Magic Eraser trick to wipe it off- we also ended up scraping the leaf chlorophyll too, oops! Dead leaf, we trimmed that off too. See how the scissors came in handy? Eventually we just bought a Pleco (catfish), Shrimp and snails and let them go at the algae naturally. Now? Zero algae, haha. Oh, but once the glass got too goopy with algae, we used a magnet brush to wipe that off - just for looks, since the algae fauna would have eventually eaten that too I'm sure. Oh, and water changes help too - at least 20 percent once a week (when just starting we did 30 percent every other day, but that was more related to the fish!)

So there you go. Here's an early pic, before the petrified wood came in, and less than a month later:




















Some of what is said above also pertains to fish maintenance in a planted tank, but most of it is pretty plant-specific advice. Getting the right fish for your planted tank is a whole other discussion - what types will leave your plants alone, which types are a low bioload, which types won't get hurt by the water parameters you keep for your plants, how do you feed your fish in a planted tank, how do you clean up after your fish in a planted tank, how many can you keep in a planted tank, which types enjoy swimming around which types of quantities and arrangement of plants, and so on.


----------



## posmlady (May 24, 2013)

So I didn't get to a pet store yet.however I'm noticing some brown on the tips of some of my plants? Last water check, my ph was low but I put in like two cups our so of coral. She said my nitrates were a tiny bit high, but still within normal. But I did about a20% water change then.I just got some fertilizer in mail yesterday and was gonna put some in tomorrow. It I'd in capsule form. What else should I do?


----------



## majorwoo (Dec 25, 2012)

Something I have learned about fish tanks - (not specific to planted tanks) - don't ride what I call the water parameter roller coaster. Unless your tap water is way out of sync - it's easier to adjust your fish/plants to your water. For example, my water is about PH 6.6 - a fish store will tell you 7.0 - 7.4 is ideal but it's a lot easier (and more stable on the fish) to just adjust them to it. This means every water change you don't introduce a bunch of water with a non matching PH/you don't have to worry about how much chemicals to add to bring the new water up to the old water specs.

Nitrates will be high from time to time - that's ok. That is the end part of the nitrogen cycle and one of the main reasons we do water changes. Do your water change and consider adding more plants to use more of them.

What kind of fertilizer did you get? If they are pill form I'm wondering if they are "root tabs" and meant to be put in the substrate near the plant roots to time release your ferts.


----------



## posmlady (May 24, 2013)

Sound like good logic to me. Ya they are root tabs, supposed to last 4 months bought them on ebay


----------



## majorwoo (Dec 25, 2012)

Good luck. I didn't know about those kind of root tabs and paid like $12 for a pack of Seachem tabs!


----------



## posmlady (May 24, 2013)

Ok,I gave in and hit led lighting. It's the current freshwater plus. My tank looks pretty cool now.. We shall see soon if it's good for plants or not. I posted pictures under my albums. Take a look and tell me what you think.


----------



## majorwoo (Dec 25, 2012)

I bet the moonlight and thunderstorms look awesome. I may play around with some controllers someday to do stuff like that - its sounds pretty awesome.


----------



## posmlady (May 24, 2013)

Ya, lightening looks cool.now that's night I have it on blue moon. Putting that picture up next.


----------



## picturebigger (Apr 13, 2013)

what's this about thunderstorms? your light system can do thunderstorms? sounds nuts.

i didn't read thru all the posts so if it hasn't been mentioned, it must be-- highly recommend you do biological filtration. whether thru a store-bought canister or a DIY project (super easy), it really helps give you an extra buffer for some (SOME!) of the many mistakes we all make. 

and it saves you gobs of cash on all that otherwise endless replacement media. i firmly believe API is as big as it is b/c of all the stupid foam pads i paid $7/pair for years before finally waking up. research DIY aquarium filtration. noteables includes poly-fill (used for pillow stuffing) for mechanical media. basically a 16oz bag is a lifetime supply and it's only $8. bio-filter media can be nearly anything, go for anything plastic and buoyant with lots of surface area (ridges, angles, etc.). i cheated and just bought a case of bio-balls for $30 that don't even need to be looked at for at least 6 months. 

basically for $30 (i have tons of leftover bio-balls) i made a PVC pipe and added filter floss for mechanical to top and bottom and filled the rest with bio balls and i never have to buy filter media again. oh and it works 150x better than any brand name out there


----------

