# Eheim, Fluval, Marineland, or SunSun



## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

The short version.

- For most planted tanks you need 2 to 4 times effective turnover (actual working turnover after adding media and anything inline (like heater, UV, etc.). The GPH listed on the box is not what you'll get in reality. 
- Eheim has proven their durability and the 2217 is an excellent filter (doesn't have to be fancy)
- UV aren't a gimmick. Are they absolutely needed and do most use them, NO. But to use one you will one gain advantage, but keeping water crystal clear and can also prevent various fish diseases like ich from spreading. Water can get cloudy for various reasons, even as simple as stirring up the substrate to much.


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## Mrari97 (Sep 3, 2017)

houseofcards said:


> The short version.
> 
> - For most planted tanks you need 2 to 4 times effective turnover (actual working turnover after adding media and anything inline (like heater, UV, etc.). The GPH listed on the box is not what you'll get in reality.
> - Eheim has proven their durability and the 2217 is an excellent filter (doesn't have to be fancy)
> - UV aren't a gimmick. Are they absolutely needed and do most use them, NO. But to use one you will one gain advantage, but keeping water crystal clear and can also prevent various fish diseases like ich from spreading. Water can get cloudy for various reasons, even as simple as stirring up the substrate to much.


1. Does the speed of the water going through the UV determine what kind of organisms you are able to prevent? (IE simple organisms like algae vs a complex organism associated with a disease)

2. What bio-media is best? Or should I diversify in what my system holds?

3. I'm guessing he was overshooting by a long shot if he is saying turnover ten times vs your two to four. I cycle 200 gph currently with almost no bio media. If I upgrade to a canister filter, does that mean that say..120 gph filtered through a canister is more beneficial and clear than if filtered through an HOB at 200 gph because of the increased beneficial bacteria?


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## negen (Aug 20, 2017)

1.??? waiting for a replay to this question by someone who knows 

2. sera siporax Professional or bio homme are made from sintered-glass which is a very efficient media for bacteria to live in. There is really no best the bacteria will live in most biomedia just fine. Your tank will probably only have a finite number bacteria what ever is needed for the bio-load of the tank. 

3. I am probably going to answer this not fully correct by it is my take. A canister filters more efficient than a HOB filter. I feel hob filters require a bit more maintenance than canister filters. An example this summer I spent setting up my first planted tank and for with a tidal 75 hob I could not get my 40b tank clear at all. I returned that and got a whale 350 canister filter. The hob unless the flow was turned all the way down would push the water towards the substrate and disturb it and cause the tank to go cloudy. With the canister filter I can have the return about 1-2" under the water and have the spout pointed up so the water no longer disturbs the substrate. I use sera crystal clear floss balls and purigen in replace of the charcoal. 

Beneficial bacteria should no effect the clearness of the tank except during the cycling process in which the tank should get cloudy during the bacteria bloom. This should settle in a day or so. Beneficial bacteria is taking nitrites and making nitrates from my understanding. Nitrites are a bit more harmful to your livestock than Nitrates. After your tank is cycled your nitrites should 0 ppm and your nitrates should be less than 40ppm. This is why weekly 20-50% water changes are needed. Having more biomedia will not increase your bacteria if there is no food for the bacteria. The biological bacteria will only increase if the bioload increases. Plants should help a little to filter out some of the nitrogen from the water. 

It is the mechanical filtration that helps clear up water. This is why three tray canister filters are so great. You can have course medium and fine foam filters then a spot for your biomedia. Canisters can also be customized more so than a hob ie reactors or uv lights or different spray bars or lilly pipes. This are just some things to consider. 

I hope this helps starting to sound like a rant if so sorry I only slept 3 hours. meh 
https://www.thespruce.com/nitrogen-cycle-understanding-1380724


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## Aqua99 (Jan 6, 2017)

My Eheim's are the most reliable filters I've ever owned. Many of mine are running 6-7yrs later just as they were on day one. I've picked up used ones that look 10yrs old and they've been prob free too. The ones I have in use are all Classic series. I have a 4+250 and a 4+350 each in their boxes in case I ever need them so have no opinion on those. I've only run the small sunsun (304?) and it's nowhere near being in the league of my 2211's.


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## Mrari97 (Sep 3, 2017)

negen said:


> Beneficial bacteria should no effect the clearness of the tank except during the cycling process in which the tank should get cloudy during the bacteria bloom. This should settle in a day or so. Beneficial bacteria is taking nitrites and making nitrates from my understanding. Nitrites are a bit more harmful to your livestock than Nitrates. After your tank is cycled your nitrites should 0 ppm and your nitrates should be less than 40ppm. This is why weekly 20-50% water changes are needed. Having more biomedia will not increase your bacteria if there is no food for the bacteria. The biological bacteria will only increase if the bioload increases. Plants should help a little to filter out some of the nitrogen from the water.
> 
> It is the mechanical filtration that helps clear up water. This is why three tray canister filters are so great. You can have course medium and fine foam filters then a spot for your biomedia. Canisters can also be customized more so than a hob ie reactors or uv lights or different spray bars or lilly pipes. This are just some things to consider.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the in depth response. I definitely understand what you are saying, I guess I should clarify what I meant. So I had a 29 gallon planted tank when I was younger, and I was so confused that I was able to keep double the fish I was told, turns out it was because of the filtration I had. The HOB are not going to cut it after I switched during a move. So what I am asking, is if I have more room for beneficial bacteria (IE canister) does that mean I have a greater capability to break down ammonia etc, keeping things in check, allowing a bigger bioload? I never overload my tanks to outrageous proportions, but I usually keep healthy schools of compatible fish.

I'd like to tackle filtration first. That way when I'm ready to add live stock, I can stagger the increase in ammonia whileI get the schooling species set up. That way the bacteria doesn't have to play catch up. So to summarize it, a bigger area for bacteria, means a bigger capability to handle bioloads as it grows?

I have a bit of a bacterial bloom but it's understandable because of the new tank. Just did a 33% water change last night and changed my photo period


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## Mrari97 (Sep 3, 2017)

Aqua99 said:


> My Eheim's are the most reliable filters I've ever owned. Many of mine are running 6-7yrs later just as they were on day one. I've picked up used ones that look 10yrs old and they've been prob free too. The ones I have in use are all Classic series. I have a 4+250 and a 4+350 each in their boxes in case I ever need them so have no opinion on those. I've only run the small sunsun (304?) and it's nowhere near being in the league of my 2211's.


Thank you for the response! Yeah I very quickly backed off the SunSuns as I read the reviews, I am glad you all suggested Eheim. So you highly suggest the classic series? What one is best model in your opinion? I know some are in boxes and some are running. Any one I decide on getting may jump to tanks as I increase the sizes of my tanks and projects in the future. For now it will be on my 36

Does the Eheim have the spray bars and input tubes like the SunSun or is that separate?


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## negen (Aug 20, 2017)

I do not know much about the eheim filters other than most like them. I went with the whale because I got it a killer price. But the ehiem 2217 and 2215 seem to be the most popular models . I am not sure if those have output flow control though. Which is why I leaned to the whale . but the whale has the prime function on the input pipe at the tank so no lily pipes can be used . point is there are a few great models out there and you have to find the features you require then compare the models . prices vs function also can take into play. Mind you if you have a 36 gallon tank you probably have about 30-32 gallons of water. Current rate of the water may not mater if you stock with current loving fish.


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

I have both Eheim filters in 2217 and 2075 but I also have Sunsun Hw304B and 302B. There are no perfect filters so it gets down to what we each want and what the tank needs. 
2217? Great Classic filter but suffering from being a really old design. The newer filters have many convenience items built in as well as a much lower price.

2075? Great filter with newer design. Several features that I consider worth buying:
Media baskets provided so that I don't have to hammer out a DIY or work around the nuisance of loose media or a bag that can block or reduce flow. Better system of cutoffs/disconnects for water flow . A single block that holds both in and out tubes. Very much quicker and nicer than the old in/out. Flip one lever and push one button rather than turn 4 cutoffs and unscrew two fittings? Keep in mind it is easy to break those cutoffs if you turn them the wrong way. They can run near $25-30 to replace a cracked one! More adjustable intake/output plastic in grey rather than the garish green of the classic line. Rock solid with Low power consumption but a very high price upfront? 
Sunsun304 B? Very adequate filter at a bargain price for those folks who do treat their equipment with some care. 
Thin plastic but very cheap to replace parts if you do drop it. Has most of the features of the 2075 but in a lighter package. Has much better intake/output in grey color but with a surface skimmer built in already rather than a very expensive add-on. I now look at buying two and using parts that are 1/3 the price rather than buying more Eheim. I use the 304 B on a planted 75 gallon and add powerheads where I need more flow. 
To me a filter has plenty of flow if it converts all the ammonia to nitrate. Other than hiding the debris out of sight, that is about all a filter does. 
Love my 2075 but will now be buying Sunsun as I find them more practical. When reading reviews, I keep in mind that there is a great deal of complaint when new items come online that beat the old standards. 

So what is best can be a matter of what the personal priorities may be.


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## Mrari97 (Sep 3, 2017)

PlantedRich said:


> I have both Eheim filters in 2217 and 2075 but I also have Sunsun Hw304B and 302B. There are no perfect filters so it gets down to what we each want and what the tank needs.
> 2217? Great Classic filter but suffering from being a really old design. The newer filters have many convenience items built in as well as a much lower price.
> 
> 2075? Great filter with newer design. Several features that I consider worth buying:
> ...


I'm torn between the SunSun 304 and the Eheim 2217 because I found most of the reviews to be highly received. I like the added input and return items that the sun sun comes with, it also seems to function well, I guess it's just Asian versus German engineering at this point. If this was a car forum I'd be set on fire for that. Anyways, I should just compile a list of the features I want for the tank and see which one best suits me?


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

I'm not totally sure I agree with the engineering. I see so many things about the Sunsun that look exactly like a US model that I suspect the engineering was done in the US and sold to a Chinese company to be made much cheaper. We could say the pattern was stolen but that would be the less educated, more cynical view. When I look at who owns what in the business world, many "US" companies are Chinese owned and find it is just too simple to say, US, Chinese, or German. All those ships coming from China do not go back empty so it is time to admit that we are a world wide trade zone, not an island. 
Whether shopping for filters, cars or hotel rooms, I read reviews but don't assign much importance to them if they tend to be totally off without giving specifics. If I see a recurring specific item, I do more checking but I find most reviews are done by people who show serious bias, either for or against that particular item. 
I look for operation that I like/want and then factor in things like bypass that some review may point me to after checking the info. I do like to get hands on when possible but at times, I simply have to try it myself before finding the truth. The Cascade 1000 filter is one that I tried and did not like. You can actually run a ruler down from top to bottom along each side and that is automatic bypass! 
I like the Sunsun but I also live and work carefully so that I tend to break far fewer things than some. As a final part of the shopping, perhaps look at replacement parts which might logically need replacement after choosing two filters to compare. Look at the price of impeller and shaft, O-rings and seals, or things like cutoff valves to see how each compared. I break very few items on my canisters but some things are natural wear items. 
Eheim 2217 --Shaft only without impeller is Amazon $12.40 
Sunsun HW304B --The shaft, bushings, and impeller is total 12.99 on this site:
Aquarium Canister Filter | AAP, SunSun with UV HW 404, 403 & 402

Lots of info on the Sunsun on that site as well, if you have not seen it.


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## Mrari97 (Sep 3, 2017)

PlantedRich said:


> I'm not totally sure I agree with the engineering. I see so many things about the Sunsun that look exactly like a US model that I suspect the engineering was done in the US and sold to a Chinese company to be made much cheaper. We could say the pattern was stolen but that would be the less educated, more cynical view. When I look at who owns what in the business world, many "US" companies are Chinese owned and find it is just too simple to say, US, Chinese, or German. All those ships coming from China do not go back empty so it is time to admit that we are a world wide trade zone, not an island.
> Whether shopping for filters, cars or hotel rooms, I read reviews but don't assign much importance to them if they tend to be totally off without giving specifics. If I see a recurring specific item, I do more checking but I find most reviews are done by people who show serious bias, either for or against that particular item.
> I look for operation that I like/want and then factor in things like bypass that some review may point me to after checking the info. I do like to get hands on when possible but at times, I simply have to try it myself before finding the truth. The Cascade 1000 filter is one that I tried and did not like. You can actually run a ruler down from top to bottom along each side and that is automatic bypass!
> I like the Sunsun but I also live and work carefully so that I tend to break far fewer things than some. As a final part of the shopping, perhaps look at replacement parts which might logically need replacement after choosing two filters to compare. Look at the price of impeller and shaft, O-rings and seals, or things like cutoff valves to see how each compared. I break very few items on my canisters but some things are natural wear items.
> ...


Probably all I need to know at this point. I've spent countless hours reading reviews... good and bad to know what I can encounter, watching setup and cleaning videos, and reading all that I can about specs. At this point, it's like owning anything else. If you take good care of it, it will return the favor. 

Yeah I do agree with what you said about imports etc, just kind of a stigma about where objects are made when it comes to quality. 

Simply put, I'd like a quiet machine that I can pack full of media to handle different levels of bio-load that I may put in. Leaking is a huge NO as I rent and can't handle being responsible for something like that happening, are there any countersafes that I could look at to stop stuff like this? 

You get what you pay for, so I guess I can bend anywhere from $50-$125. It's just in terms of practicality. I don't need all that fancy of a system, but I would like an intermediate device. In my gut I can feel I'm probably going to end up getting a SunSun 304B


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

Best $20 to spend? A simple plastic dishpan and a water alarm!
In all my years of fishkeeping, I have never had a sudden dramatic leak on a canister but I have had several where fittings or seals got a tiny little ooze. In defense of canisters, I have also had a HOB that dropped the motor unit off the bottom and did flood the whole place! My fault for not turning it on right but still a mess? 
For the tiny slow leak and with the canister inside the cabinet, out of sight, I find I want to know about those slow oozes before they hurt me. 
A cheap dish pan with the canister and alarm, will almost always let any ooze run down the tubing into the pan and set off the alarm before the pan runs over. 
This is what I but and in the three packs as I also use them for things like avoiding overfilling the reserve water barrel or the tanks. 
Can't pass on links to the auction so search:

Instapark IN07A Water Leak Leakage Detection Detector Sound Alarm Sensor Siren 
These are a favorite as well?
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Basement-Watchdog-Plastic-Alarm/1005609
There are also lots of others which can be bought at Lowe's HD and such. But these are lightweight ,cheap and easy. The batteries are only used when the alarm is sounding so last nearly forever if I only sound them during tests!


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## Nexgen (Jul 1, 2015)

After owning eheim, fluval, sunsun, and now filstar filters. I can say that none of them have ever leaked, the sunsun did develop a leak but I re-greased the seal and in was good to go. But like you said you get what you pay for, and the pump on the sunsun filters is not as powerful as they say it is. It might be at 0 head pressure but once you put media and add head pressure the flow isn't that great. Put it this way my 304b and eheim 2213 flow about the same amount of water once filled with media. The sunsun is rated to 525gph, I'm assuming this is a 0 head pressure, and the eheim is rated at 116 gph filled with media.

To me it comes down to the age old fluval vs eheim argument, both have their pros and cons. The fluval has great flow, the individual media baskets make it easier to clean (IMO), and the corrugated tubing never looses its flex. But the flow pattern can lead to bypassing (same can be said for the sunsun) and the corrogated tubing is hard to connect to in-line diffusers, heater etc, and it can cause buildup over time. The eheim is quiet (like, is it still running quiet), and the flow entering the bottom and exiting the top is great. But because the inlet and return are separate tubes, you have to disconnect more in order to clean it, and over time the tubing gets very stiff, not something a little hot water can't solve.

I can also say so far I am liking the filstar, mine is an older rena, but I'm sure the API's are the same. I have only had it for about 3 weeks but the flow is great, the tubing is very soft, almost like its silicon tubing, and the flow pattern should minimize bypass.


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## TheLordOfTheFish (Mar 11, 2017)

I'll jump on this thread with my own question. I'm getting a 50 gallon planted high tech and I was looking at the eheims. I'd like to connect a Rex Grigg reactor (Rex Grigg Style Co2 Reactor | Standard Version) and an in-line heater to it and then connect it to a lilly pipe. What filter would you guys recommend for good flow with all these peripherials atatched? Price can be on the high end. 

thanks!


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

When money is not a primary on filters, always go bigger as the flow can almost always be restricted without harm while it is impractical to try to increase flow that is too low.


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

For what it's worth I will add a bit to this thread. With regards to older Eheim filters I have to admit, I think the Eheim Professional II is a very good filter. I have one running on my 40g tank and it does a fantastic job keeping the water clean and not having to be maintained every 2-3 weeks. I also have an Eheim Pro 4+ (model 350) on my 75g tank. Great filter, but I find I have to maintain it about every 2-3 weeks.

With regard to bio media, I did an interesting study last summer and learned a lot (Matrix without Seachem thread). I learned a small amount of good bio media can process a HUGE amount of ammonia / nitrite. Of course I was changing a lot of water daily and did not have any mechanical filtration in the setup. In the real world I would go with the recommended volume of bio media simply so it does not plug up with fine debris. Also of note regarding bio media and a heavily planted tank - the tank itself with filter out ammonia / nitrite. How much I can't say exactly but it does correlate with what others have said regarding turn over rate. 10 time the tank volume, in my opinion is definitely too much. My Eheim Pro 4 does not have a huge flow, and I would consider my tank a little overstocked with Rainbow fish. But over the last year I have never had an ammonia reading over 0.0ppm so something must be working correctly.

As for the other filters mentioned I can only comment on the Sun Sun design. I have an AquaTOP filter (basically same design as Sun Sun) sitting out in the shed only as an emergency backup. Reason being, the basket design bypasses a fair amount of water and the point where the pump connects to the top basket bypassed a huge amount of water. I made some DIY modifications to fix both problems and it work just fine for 6 months. Just felt I should not have to fix something that is brand new.

I have also used a Marineland 360 canister filter. Good unit with a few minor issues. My biggest compliment for the Marineland filer was the customer service. Every issue I had was resolved quickly - great company to deal with.


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

I like the UV and built in skimmer on the Sunsuns. Cant imagine being without either one these days.


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## Triport (Sep 3, 2017)

I have been an Eheim guy for about 30 years since I got my first big tank. Could never do Fluval. Don't know why. You just get to liking what you like to some degree. 

That said I like the look and reviews of the Hydor canister filters so swapped out one of my Eheim Ecco Pro 80's for a Hydor Pro 350 on my 35g bowfront. Got another one for my new 40breeder that I am setting up soon. So far I am happy with it (though it is a bit louder than the old classic Eheims...about the same as the Ecco Pro though). 

While extra filtration is obviously a good thing remember that the gph can also translate into a lot more movement of water through the tank and on a smaller tank that might be a bit rough on some species of fish. I went from the Eheim at 198gph to the Hydor at 280gph and definitely noticed their is more flow and the some of the fish were a bit impacted by it. I just adjusted the direction of the output and now some of the small pencilfish and hatchetfish have adjusted where in the tank they hang out. 

Time will tell if I am happy with the Hydor filters but personally I would say away from Sunsun just because some of the reviews I have seen. What is the use of saving yourself money in the short term if you end up having to buy another filter in 6 months anyway because the quality is poor?


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## Triport (Sep 3, 2017)

Oh by the way I got another Hydor for my new 40 and while I priming it the stupid thing started leaking at the seams. Took it to the sink to double check everything was closed up properly and tried again but nope. Leaked all over the place. Glad it didn't wait until the middle of the night and empty the tank at least.

So no more Hydor for me and now I will probably live in fear of the one I am already running. Had to do a rush order on an Eheim Professional 4+ for my 40 so I would have a filter for it quickly and it cost me a fortune. I'll never leave Eheim again.


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