# WC and Tom Barr low tech method



## Dariofan (Aug 4, 2014)

Hi, I've been doing a lot of reading on fertilizing and all of the different methods. I read about Tom Barr's low tech method. Sorry as I've been mulling and googling I cant find all of the links back to what I read. I think he says that water changes bring more CO2 (tap water), which the plants, being used to low CO2, can't adapt to as well allowing algae to take advantage of the added CO2 and grow. I think this method recommends limiting water changes as much as possible. 

I like doing water changes for my fish, they seem to do better with a weekly change. But I still use buckets (small tanks) and I let the water sit for 24 hours at least before treating it & adding it to the tank. 

So finally my question-because I let the water sit it lets off its CO2 to about the same as my tank and then I wouldn't have this issue of CO2 fluctuating=algae anymore. Is my understanding of that correct?

( I know something else will always lead to algae :wink2


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## WaterLife (Jul 1, 2015)

Yeah, that's correct.

I had a 55 gallon low tech that I did water changes every month or longer and never had an issue for years. Then I started doing weekly 50% water changes and then Black Beard Algae started growing. Because of the now frequent water changes, there was now co2 fluctuations which can cause BBA (wasn't aware at the time. doesn't help that I was doing "large" water changes = more fluctuation). All other variables stayed the same, besides the changing variables that come with water changes.

But, yes, if you off gas the co2 from the tap water, you wouldn't be fluctuating the co2 levels as much/at all (depending on the co2 levels that exist in your tank some co2 is produced within the tank from various sources, and so removing water that has Xppm of co2 then further diluting it with 0ppm new off gassed water, would lower the Xppm co2 levels of your tank, causing fluctuations in itself. at least that is what I make of it. but if you are doing the water changes infrequently/far inbetween, then those fluctuations would be too far apart to cause any real algae issues. could be wrong though).

I can't give a specific time it takes to off gas the co2 as there are some variables. I know people that tests their water pH (to determine co2 ppm), let the cup of water sit for 24 hours to gas off the co2. A larger surface area (water surface), off gasses quicker (more water surface = more atmospheric exchange). Adding a air stone/bubbler or anything to increase surface agitation will off gas quicker as well. I think letting the water sit (lid off container) for 24 hours would suffice, regardless of surface area since there isn't much co2 anyways.


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## Hardstuff (Oct 13, 2012)

I am in a similar boat. I have a 10 that I wanted to drain but I seem to always learn more from it so I keep it running. 
I know what Tom Barr say's about the CO2 fluctuations. There seems to be a pattern to it. 
However, I also see a pattern to high organics that build up in the tank that seems to contribute to the BBA blooms. I have been agitating the anubias plant leaves every other day to get the organics off the leaves. Much decaying matter settles on the leaves so the agitating method I have been using lets the filter get at it so the leaves have been staying cleaner and no new BBA seems to grow back. However I do dose small amounts of excell , 1/2 dosage or less and its not growing back. I also spray the surface bio film every other night with the filter off in hopes that more organic material gets oxidized. 
I tried an experiment that always generated BBA in the past and I changed 30% tank water with 24 -48 hour aged water. Since doing this the tank water looks clearer and almost no algae with BBA only on the glass in a very small section struggling to stay alive.
I believe the CO2 fluctuations are the trigger but the fuel is the organic matter in the system that BBA needs to thrive. 
That being said the minute the conditions are right for it to grow it will every time once the spores are in the tank. 
It could be sunlight beating down on the glass in the morning in a high tech system as CO2 levels are changing, or poor flow causing CO2 fluctuations somewhere in the tank but some organics will need to be present as well.
I also have observed in different tanks that I have not disturbed the substrate while doing water changes. Only lightly skimming the substrate in hopes of not causing a mini ammonia spike which may play a role as well. Since I have practiced these Ideas my tank has never looked better. Ideas , are the key word. I am not trying to impose fact. Just stating my observations in my systems.
One last thing, I always change the water at night on my 10 gallon low tech which probably helps minimizing BBA growth since the photo period is off. I should practice this on my pressurized tank but I usually change that tank 2 hours before lights come on giving the system time to build gas back up attempting to keep CO2 more stable. Hope this helps


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## jbs47 (Dec 1, 2015)

All makes good sense...will fine tune my methods...Algae remains a constant problem.


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## Jcstank (Jan 3, 2015)

BBA is tough to figure out. I have a 75g, 10g, and 5g. I do weekly 50% water changes in the 10 and 5 gallon tanks and only every 3 weeks for the 75 gallon tank; I did start out doing weekly 50% water changes in the 75g tank. The 75 gallon tank suffered from BBA when I did the weekly 50% water changes but it was really just a little BBA. Now my 75 BBA seems to be in check with the 3 wk cycle. I have never had one gram of BBA in my 10 or 5 though despite the more frequent water changes. I use dry fertilizers and EI method of dosing in all my tanks so the only thing different is the water changes and light types to some extent.

Found this article too, which I think is helpful. http://www.fish-as-pets.com/2007/11/planaria-detritus-internet-answers.html


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## Django (Jun 13, 2012)

I run 50% water changes once a week. The algae is there, I just can't see it I think, until I miss an EI fert dose or two. The algae is like a little sign saying "something's wrong here"


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## pauliewoz (Sep 22, 2015)

Jcstank said:


> BBA is tough to figure out. I have a 75g, 10g, and 5g. I do weekly 50% water changes in the 10 and 5 gallon tanks and only every 3 weeks for the 75 gallon tank; I did start out doing weekly 50% water changes in the 75g tank. The 75 gallon tank suffered from BBA when I did the weekly 50% water changes but it was really just a little BBA. Now my 75 BBA seems to be in check with the 3 wk cycle. I have never had one gram of BBA in my 10 or 5 though despite the more frequent water changes. I use dry fertilizers and EI method of dosing in all my tanks so the only thing different is the water changes and light types to some extent.


So even though you do EI dosing you only do a water change every 3 weeks and no issues?

I've been considering trying this, but I'm afraid of the build up of ferts. But I do the low light EI dose. Which is just one dose a week of macros and micros. So maybe it won't be so bad to hold off on the water change.

I also have a 5.5 gallon betta tank, and do the same ferts and a 50% water change and no BBA. 

It's really hard to pinpoint what is causing it exactly. It's really frustrating.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## Hardstuff (Oct 13, 2012)

Even though this is a low tech thread I have experiences to add regarding pressurized and No CO2 as well since I run both and the information may help others. 
When I lived in New York I was using water out of the tap that was very unique. It was well water that was about 10000 years old that was very soft but had a decent amount of iron in it. I was very green in the hobby back then but dived right into Pressurized CO2. I did not know at all what I was doing but the basics. Lighting , CO2 and believed low nutrients especially low nitrates was key. I now know all this was wrong except stable CO2 which I did not know about then. 
The point is I did large water changes right out of the tap with the lights on. Never did I get a BBA bloom. BBA was never a problem in that tank which was a 45 gallon. Flow was good but nutrients were poor! I had a moderate to heavy fish load and almost dosed no nutrients except iron. Yes I did develop some plant deficiencies that got worse over time and depleted laterite added to the problem but the tank had its time that it actually did well considering there was a nutrient limitation going on most of the time.
To this day I am puzzled that after running that tank for 4 years and never experiencing a BBA bloom has amazed me. 
Where I live now in AZ I am much more careful how I change all my tanks co2 OR not. If something goes wrong like dirty filters or CO2 flux from a bad regulator , or a poor CO2 atomizer, water change in low tech tanks I can generate BBA. 
I have gotten a lot better at keeping BBA free tanks but that algae is always waiting for my next mistake. I did not have this problem with natural glacier water 5000 feet below the surface ( which makes me very suspicious of surface organics playing a role in the formation of this algae). 
I use R/O water now which helps a lot but the r/o does not filter out everything especially as the membrane ages and the carbons get saturated with impurities. My current tap water is surface water like most people in this hobby.
For nearly 4 years I did not use a dechlorinator when doing the water changes maybe It had a positive effect at algae control to a lessor degree? But I did get a lot of other algae issues from time to time but the point of this post is I did not grow BBA algae from that system. hope this helps.


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## jcmv4792 (Jul 15, 2015)

What if you do water changes after lights out, and then let it gass off until next morning before the lights come on?


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## Dariofan (Aug 4, 2014)

Thanks for the very informative and thoughtful responses. That is so helpful. I've been adjusting my dosing of ferts, I'm probably overly cautious -my fish would probably be fine with less changes, but it's my routine, so it's good to know more about that.

I have some algae of all types going on, it fluctuates, but it's well under control at the moment. I really am looking for my plants to do better. My melon sword is tiny & wont take off & Im trying to do a marislea 'carpet' kind of. 

+1 to cleaning off the anubias frequently-this made all the difference for my anubias.


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## Hardstuff (Oct 13, 2012)

To answer JCMV4792 , you could try changing the water after lights out if the room lights were very low to keep the risk down. I would not do that with fresh tap water that was not aged but it could be an interesting experiment you could try if you wanted to test your system. Thats why I keep my 10 gallon low tech around , I learn from it. Always something new to learn to help future tanks. 
Currently its a low level excel tank with zero CO2 gas. Spraying the surface at night with a little peroxide and every other day moving the anubias leaves around is still paying off. Still no BBA algae from my last water change 6 day's ago. I am real careful not to disturb the substrate for fear of creating an ammonia release. So far so good. Good plant growth with hardly any algae growing. I dose K and Fe frequently but only small amounts. I dose CSM+B only 1 time a week. Po4 seems to get used up faster than my nitrates so I hardly ever dose nitrates. I keep nitrates between 5-20 ppm's and PO4 between 1-2ppms. I also believe keeping the filters fairly clean is a big plus.


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