# My first attempt 2.5g Bow. Need pointers.



## taku (Sep 20, 2008)

If it was my tank, I would change a gallon out today, and another tomorrow if the tank was still cloudy. But two important things right off the bat are water source and that you don't stir it up even more when adding the fresh water.

I use an RO/DI unit, and while that's not for everyone, at least I know I have good water entering the system. What type of water did you add? (tap, bottled etc)

Also, use a bowl or something to pour the water into, in the tank, so that it doesn't disrupt the settling that's already taken place.

Finally, maybe the little filter just isn't strong enough to de-cloud the water? Do you know how many gallons per hour it is or if it looks like it's doing work in there? Are you running charcoal in the filter?

I'm not one to give advice on planteds since I just started a 3g planted myself, but I have been keeping saltwater reefs since 2000 and fish only freshies since before that.


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## taku (Sep 20, 2008)

I just read the specs on that filter, 20 gallons per hour is not enough in my opinion to clear up the water as fast as you would like. Maybe on a setup and running system, it would be fine, but it's having a hard time cleaning the water column IMO


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## Down_Shift (Sep 20, 2008)

taku said:


> I just read the specs on that filter, 20 gallons per hour is not enough in my opinion to clear up the water as fast as you would like. Maybe on a setup and running system, it would be fine, but it's having a hard time cleaning the water column IMO


What do you suggest is sufficient? I see there are small sized submersible filters like mine that do ~60-80gph. Is that enough?


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

The wendtii might be just melting away, as it commonly does after being planted or transplanted. It will grow back. It certainly doesn't need any large amounts of light. Don't go too crazy on the liquid ferts, either. Not yet, anyway.

As far as the cloudiness goes, I'm sure it will clear away. It's just suspended particulate. One thing that might help is to actually turn your filter OFF for an hour or so, to let it all settle. Otherwise, just be patient, and don't go overboard on the water changes, which may very well just stir up the substrate some more.

Less is more, keep that in mind at all times.


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

As far as your filter is concerned, I wouldn't worry about it. I use a Red Sea nanofilter, which is only rated at 15gph, and I use it on a 5 gallon, and it does the job very well. I also, FWIW, have the same filter on the exact same 2.5 minibow you are using. So if your Whisper filter is rated with a higher flow than the Red Sea nano, I wouldn't worry about it.


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## Down_Shift (Sep 20, 2008)

Church said:


> The wendtii might be just melting away, as it commonly does after being planted or transplanted. It will grow back. It certainly doesn't need any large amounts of light. Don't go too crazy on the liquid ferts, either. Not yet, anyway.
> 
> As far as the cloudiness goes, I'm sure it will clear away. It's just suspended particulate. One thing that might help is to actually turn your filter OFF for an hour or so, to let it all settle. Otherwise, just be patient, and don't go overboard on the water changes, which may very well just stir up the substrate some more.
> 
> Less is more, keep that in mind at all times.


Hey Church, just wanted to say your gf's 2.5 tank came up on some of my searches. That was one of the inspirations that got me into attempting to use my tank!

Sounds like I will look into a CF at the local hardware store and leave it as is for a bit to let everything settle.


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

^ Why thank you! 

My girlfriend will be proud to hear that!


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## Down_Shift (Sep 20, 2008)

Got home from work. Took the dog around the block and went into a hardware store down the street, picked up CF lamp sweet. A sand pile from some construction caught my eye.. so I bagged a sandwich bag full >=) Boiled the sand for a long while and picked at it for a little bit.

Here's the lamp if anyone is interested:
http://interstore.com/product/132-188489/832545/WP18BLK_Goose_DeskLamp.html
A accidental find, 26 bucks OTD.

Had some time before class so I figured I'd play around with the tank again. I siphoned out about 60% of the water and refilled. Also replanted and fixed some things that were bothering me. I dunno cus I'm a noob to this whole thing, but layering the sand over the SMS really helped keep the plants down! Threw a tab in there just in case.

Water cleared a little bit, no more crazy brownish color. it's more of a hazey color now. I can actually SEE the plants!

Thanks for the suggestions guys.











Here's the guy I'm worried about =(


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Looks good. Just do yourself a favor and leave the water changes alone for a little while, lol. It definitely looks good as it is, so just let it all settle and let the cycle begin. Forgive me if you already know what I'm about to say, but you said something about only doing goldfish bowls before this, so...

...DON'T ADD LIVESTOCK YET UNTIL AFTER THE TANK CYCLES!!!!

Do yourself a favor and read up on "fishless cycling." Working with such a small tank is not exactly easy, although I wouldn't say it's difficult either. But little things that are normally innocuous, like a water change, are more drastic on a small tank such as this. When the tank cycles, it's more of a defined swing in the nitrite and ammonia levels than a bigger tank. When you overfeed in a small tank, it's more detrimental than it would be in a 10g.

Just keep all those things in mind, and for the next few weeks while it cycles, DON'T TOUCH ANYTHING! The water is going to get cloudy again, while the initial bacterial bloom occurs, and if you change the water it will set you back. After the bacteria establishes itself and the nitrites go down to 0, then go ahead and add your livestock.

Best of luck to you! This place is the best place for all your answers, for sure.

Welcome to the Planted Tank, btw.


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## Down_Shift (Sep 20, 2008)

Yar thanks for the info! I wasn't planning on adding stock for a while, I know I have to cycle. Just didn't know when it's done =) Was just reading about it on RexGrigg's blog.

Oh and random question.. my filter is producing alot of bubbles from the air pump. These bubbles get to the surface of the water and pop.. splash small bits of water out of the tank.. Any info on this? Do I need some kind of valve to adjust the air pipe? 


Heading out to class. Thanks guys.


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

I've never used an air pump in any of my planted tanks before, so I've never had that problem. My advice would be to either limit the airflow coming from the pump somehow, like with a valve, like you mentioned. Or, just find a way to diffuse those bubbles so they don't attack the surface so violently. I'm thinking, like, maybe putting some floating plants right above the bubble current? Or, just get a red sea nano filter. Those don't use air pumps like that whisper does. 

(I got my red sea nano from a lfs for $12, brand new.)


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## Down_Shift (Sep 20, 2008)

So my tank was running fine all day yesterday and the water wasn't too cloudy like before. Except now it's looking funny. 

There's a weird cloudyness to the water and visibility has been reduced.

The filter has been catching what look like a green/brownish color to it. What is this?

The only thing I can thing of is the SMS is kicking up?

Also my plants had these air bubbles all over them yesterday and they all seem to have disappeared, is this normal?

I guess I just have to sit back and wait it out?


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## Ugly Genius (Sep 27, 2003)

The cloudiness could be a bacteria bloom. Normal stuff. I'd just let the tank do it's thing for a couple of weeks more before I tried troubleshooting anything else it may be.

One thing I'd do is I'd tie the moss to a rock or the driftwood. It'll grow neater and nicer that way.

Otherwise, great start!


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## Down_Shift (Sep 20, 2008)

Just got home and my gf was shocked at how the tank cleared by itself. It's not completely crystal clear, but it's a tad bit visible now. The filter is soooo brown. I guess I'll leave everything be for the time being.

I was curious how people were getting the moss to grow on stuff.. How do you "tie" it to a large piece of Driftwood like mine? It's growing very unevenly at the moment.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

The cloudiness could also be green water, a free floating algae


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## Ugly Genius (Sep 27, 2003)

To tie the moss, just lay it on the driftwood flatly. (There is no top or bottom with moss, so there is no right side up.) Once you've laid it flat, use cotton thread and wrap and tie it around the moss...
...actually, I just remembered this. You might find it helpful. Check this out from ADA. Here's the specific page on wrapping moss. The manual goes into everything about setting up a new tank.
But back to your question, you just lay the moss flat and wrap it with cotton thread. The thread will dissolve and the moss will have attached itself by then.


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## Down_Shift (Sep 20, 2008)

Update:

Water is alot clearer. Here's some pics. Not doing much to the as Church suggested. I did add a piece of a water polishing filter (had to buy a bigger piece and cut it). Also might have to get another batch of diy co2 mixed the bubbles are not coming out of the tube anymore.

Anything else I should be looking into?


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Down_Shift said:


> Anything else I should be looking into?


For the moment, it looks really good, so just let things settle and take root. One thing you could do to make it that much more impacting is put a black background behind it.


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## FrostyNYC (Nov 5, 2007)

It's only been a couple days and your DIY CO2 already stopped bubbling? How big is the container, and what formula did you use? Is it that poland spring bottle I see on the side? I'd up the size of the bottle and before I started doing batch changes every week. Maybe one of those bigger gatorade bottles. Although with the plants you chose, CO2 is not particularly critical. 

What is the new light you have over the tank?


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Personally, I wouldn't even bother with CO2 with those plants. Maybe a splash of excel every couple of days. Having consistent CO2 levels is much more important sometimes than having high CO2 levels.

And wait-- doesn't your filter run off of an airpump? If so, I think that means you are wasting the CO2 anyway.


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## Down_Shift (Sep 20, 2008)

FrostyNYC said:


> It's only been a couple days and your DIY CO2 already stopped bubbling? How big is the container, and what formula did you use? Is it that poland spring bottle I see on the side? I'd up the size of the bottle and before I started doing batch changes every week. Maybe one of those bigger gatorade bottles. Although with the plants you chose, CO2 is not particularly critical.
> 
> What is the new light you have over the tank?


Here's the light discussion thread I had going:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/lighting/73874-halogen-bulb-g4-12v-20w-2-a-2.html#post693653

It was a steal!!



Yea, it's that mini poland spring bottle. I'm going to find a 2L bottle or a larger bottle. I figured I could hide a small poland spring bottle easier than huge 2L bottle! 

Is it possible to put a check valve on the co2 line? That way maybe I can put the bottle in the cabinet under my dinner table?


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## Down_Shift (Sep 20, 2008)

Church said:


> Personally, I wouldn't even bother with CO2 with those plants. Maybe a splash of excel every couple of days. Having consistent CO2 levels is much more important sometimes than having high CO2 levels.
> 
> And wait-- *doesn't your filter run off of an airpump?* If so, I think that means you are wasting the CO2 anyway.



Yea it does. One of my original posts about CO2 asked if my filter would defeat the purpose of o2.

I figured it wouldn't hurt to throw in some diy co2.

I'm gonna pick up that Red Sea Nan0 filter soon. I can't find a local store with one. Petco does have it for 12.99 though! 
If I order online, it's like another 8 bucks for [email protected]#[email protected]#


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Nice start you have here for the tank! It's definitely normal for Crypts to drop a bunch of leaves while they settle into a new environment but it should bounce back. I don't use CO2 on any of my tanks, but i agree that's probably not necessary with the plants you have. If you want to experiment though, by all means, it's not gonna hurt anything!   As for the filter, definitely don't order it online for that much! I got mine brand new at my LFS for like $10 i think, so just keep looking, maybe even ask if they can get it in for you? 

Other than that, the only thing is are you adding an ammonia source to the tank so that the beneficial bacteria have something to snack on? 

Good luck, looks great! :biggrin:


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## Down_Shift (Sep 20, 2008)

No Ammonia source.. What should I be looking at?
I'm bout to head out to do some fun shopping (instead of grocery shopping) Gonna see if a few local stores will have any 5g rimless tanks. I want to get another tank going to play with!


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## Down_Shift (Sep 20, 2008)

Update!

Not much done. I realized there was alot of algae or something on the tank! So I wrapped a paper towel on a straw with an elastic band and went to work clearing up the view. Also took the advice on a black background.

I also noticed there has been alot of bubbles on the plants, is this normal?

Also there's weird stringy things coming off one of the stems (circled it in red in the pic)

Am I leave the light on too long? I've noticed some green tint to the sand near the Wendii (that looks like it's melting hardcore). The driftwood has a weird green to it too. How do I clean this?

My buddy has a water test kit. So I'm gonna test the water this weekend and see if I can get some shrimp!!


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## Down_Shift (Sep 20, 2008)

So I've definitely noticed the green alot more in the sand part of the floor. It this algae?


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

are your java fern rhizomes burried?
they shouldnt be.


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## Down_Shift (Sep 20, 2008)

@[email protected] said:


> are your java fern rhizomes burried?
> they shouldnt be.



What? Explain please.


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## deleted_user_16 (Jan 20, 2008)

the long "string" that connect leaves should not be buried.


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## fish_fasinated (Mar 30, 2006)

the thick stem and roots taht the java fern leaves are attached to shouldnt be barried under the sand. java ferns grow best when attached to wood or rocks.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

they grow perfectly fine in the substrate, as do anubias. there is no difference for them, so long as the rhizome is above the substrate.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

The "weird" things coming off of the leaves are roots from future baby "fernlets"


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## connordude27 (Jun 14, 2008)

do those fernlets fall off? or do i need to take it off?


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## Down_Shift (Sep 20, 2008)

anyone have any suggestions on how to clean up my green tank now.. my driftwood,rocks,sand all have a green tint to them..


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## fish_fasinated (Mar 30, 2006)

a couple a otos otta do the trick. 2 of them should be fine so long as the tank is filtered and heated.


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## Down_Shift (Sep 20, 2008)

So I shouldn't go ahead and start scrubbing it all off? >=)

I was thinking bout ottos, just need to do a water check..


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Don't scrub it off. It's oto food.


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## Down_Shift (Sep 20, 2008)

Planted are growing!! Noticed some small leaves growing out of the Fern and the Crypt is growing back green baby leaves after losing all of its original leaves! Java moss is getting thick in front also.

My cycle isn't completely done yet.. Tested out the water today: 5ppm NitrAte and very close to 4ppm NitrIte.

Also some changes to the tank: 

I got a Betta! 

Replaced my Whisper Air driven Filter with a Red Sea Nano as Church suggested. I kept the carbon filter from the Whisper also.

I also added one of those co2 diffusers because they look so cool bubbling. I highly picking up more than one because they do break. I bought a cheap pair off ebay and one of them came with a leak =(

And I made myself a glass top incase I have any jumpers.


I already have another rescape in mind. Just to see make sure I get it cycled first.


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## midnightk (Sep 24, 2008)

nice going i jus got my 2.5 bow up and running again i should make a thread lol. cool betta bet hes happy to have his own house. keep it up


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Looking good, that looks like a really pretty Betta! 

The only thing I'd suggest is DEFINITELY do a water change, 4ppm nitrIte is NOT a good place for a fish to be living, not even a fish as hardy as a Betta. When you have fish in a cycling tank you really should aim for keeping ammonia and nitrIte under 1ppm at the highes, I usually aim for under .5 

I know it's a tiny tank but if you can get your hands on some trimmings of a fast growing stem plant to throw in there until the cycle is complete it would probably help a lot! Just a thought


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## Down_Shift (Sep 20, 2008)

4 days after my post, the tank got fully cycled.. zero'd out! Weird how it was such a sudden drop. Planning on moving this tank and putting a larger tank on my table! Feeding the newly found addiction :fish:


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## Down_Shift (Sep 20, 2008)

Update on the noob tank =/


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Looking good! That looks like a nice fat happy oto on the glass there!  And the crypt has recovered nicely!


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## Down_Shift (Sep 20, 2008)

Yea, the crypt looks amazing.. I'm so surprised it grew so fast! I want to get a bunch for my other tank.

Might transfer the tank to a ADA Mini-S in the next week or so.


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