# how tobreed Coral Red Pencilfish (Nannostomus mortenthaleri)



## 2la (Aug 18, 2002)

http://www.characin.com/carey/species/characin/pencil/coral-red.html

FWIW, I've tried to look for the difference in anal fins and I have to tell ya: If it's there, it's really, really subtle! Instead, I go by color (females don't get nearly as red as males) and behavior (females don't splay their fins out when displaying, and in a chase they're always the ones getting chased).

Ten pairs?! My goodness! Did you get a good deal on them or what?


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## juilian75 (Aug 12, 2003)

thank you for your valuable advice...

I was'nt able to tell the difference by the anal fin either...i am trying to split them up in pairs and try breeding them as pairs in 10 individual tanks....but i have alot of difficulty in differenciating them.


What are their requirements and breeding habbits...?

There is very little written on them on the internet even so, in very brief detail.

Can anyone help.

And yes i got them at a very good deal at 50% off the market price of the LFS.

I also noticed that bigger sized fishes tend to be more coloured up....any reason for that....thus making it difficult to different them by colour also.


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## 2la (Aug 18, 2002)

Those are probably males, then. Plus the larger they are, the closer they are to dominance, and thus the brighter the colors. See if you can get a hold of the February 2002 edition of Tropical Fish Hobbyist; there's a breeding account there. I don't have that issue, but my understanding is that it's not much different than breeding the dwarf pencilfish.


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## juilian75 (Aug 12, 2003)

After the fishes has settled down in thier new home....

i noticed one thing.....they tend to loss their colour from time to time....i pair them up with the more coloured uo one with another light coloured up one.....only to return later to find that both are fully coloured up and both flaring at each other.....


so whats the definte way to sex them.....


been searching for info but at zero success.....

can anyone help...

can i write to anybody or organization for help....


i really need help...


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## aquaverde (Apr 15, 2003)

I've got my hands full just trying to buy them, much less breed them. Enjoying the thread, though. Hope folks continue to post info on these beautiful fish.

James


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## mario (Feb 5, 2003)

juilian75, first off, I don't have any experience in breeding these guys- or any other pencil fish, for that matter. Since you have problems in sexing your fish you want to try this approach, which seems to work extremely well for breeding a number of species.

Isolate your fish and condition them individually for up to two weeks. During this time you might start recognizing females since their bellies could swell up with roe (in mixed tanks they might actually spawn continously with all eggs getting eaten).

Pick male/female pairs if you can distinguish them, or just pick random pairs. Put them together in a breeder tank (best with a grid at the bottom to separate eggs from parents) and leave them for 1-3 days and check if spawning occurs. If not, move them back into isolation, condition them some more and try a different pair in the meantime. 

If this info is too non-specific please disregard. Good luck... mario


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Beautiful fish, reminds me of the time when I kept and bred beckfordi's. Why do you want to split them up into 10 pairs? Have you though about leaving them together or maybe two or three groups in tanks that have lots of Javamoss and Riccia? I always had little pencils grow up, as long as they can hide from the adults... and once they are past the micro-eating stage you could transfer them into a separate tank and feed them recently hatched brine shrimps.


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

While I haven't been able to get my hands on some Coral Reds I have been able to spawn Nannostomus beckfordi. I've found they do much better in larger groups than in pairs for spawning. Fill your breeding tank 1/2-3/4 of the way with Mayaca fluviatilis and keep up with the water changes and you should be all set. 

Mine spawned at 84*F, pH 5.8, KH ~1*, GH~1* They tend to scatter eggs in fine leaved plants. You'll see a male and female go into a thicket together and do their little shaking thing. If you're lucky a few weeks later you'll see some fry swimming around.

Best of luck!
Phil


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## juilian75 (Aug 12, 2003)

i still need more advices..pls keep them coming...

i managed to get my hands on 10 pairs...i am left with 7 pairs...3 pairs went up the wagon...(puzzled)

I suspect it may be due to fights with each other...my water cond are very ok...everything in order..can't figure out why the went up the wag.

i am still unabe to sex them....really frustrating.....


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## Braveheart (Sep 29, 2003)

Wasserpest would you care to elaborate on your Beckfordi breedings?

I just found some younger fish and plan to use them as dithers for my incoming A. borelli, but Id also be pretty geeked if they spawned too.

Suggestions comments? I have 7 now and I think 3 males. They are starting to show some hints of changing color that lead me to this conclusion.


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## 2la (Aug 18, 2002)

Braveheart, I'd recommend you go with dwarf pencilfish rather than the Beckford's, which are assertive and swim all over the tank. Dwarf pencils are relatively sedate and remain in the upper regions of the tank, but move around enough to act as target fish for the borellii without truly threatening their spawn.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Braveheart said:


> Wasserpest would you care to elaborate on your Beckfordi breedings?
> 
> Suggestions comments? I have 7 now and I think 3 males. They are starting to show some hints of changing color that lead me to this conclusion.


You will have to wait a little longer, the genders are easy to differentiate by size and coloration and behaviour.
Where I lived at that time we had extremely soft and slightly acid water, so I don't know how that will work with hard water.
If I remember right Beckfordis spawned pretty much every morning, when indirect daylight hit the tank.
If you want to raise them you should try to get Riccia floating on the surface, the tiny fry has good survival chances there, and when they get a little bigger you could transfer them into a separate tank and start to feed them brine shrimps nauplii.

I am in the process of setting up a 10 gal tank and pencil fishes are what I want for it... will see how the hard water that I am blessed with now will affect their eggs.


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## Braveheart (Sep 29, 2003)

2la said:


> Dwarf pencils are relatively sedate and remain in the upper regions of the tank, but move around enough to act as target fish for the borellii without truly threatening their spawn.


I REALLY want to spawn the incoming Borelli, much more than I want Beckfordi fry.

At times I HATE MICHIGAN!!! There's just not the quality or diversity of stock in the LPS; guess Im going to have to join one or both of the local fish clubs around here and pray.

Anybody know where I can get Dwarf pencils? Or other suggestions for good dithers that are different (like pencils are) and would work out best for my Borelli?


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## Braveheart (Sep 29, 2003)

Its me J (didn't realize said that on Aquabotanic it should have been Braveheart there too) so you know the tank/situation already.


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## 2la (Aug 18, 2002)

Don't fret; if dwarf pencils aren't available you can still be very successful using beckfordi as targets/dithers. Mama borellii will just have a little bit more work to do protecting the fry, but she should be just as successful.


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## Braveheart (Sep 29, 2003)

Thanks 2la, this is my first effort with Apistos, (I don't even have them and I think Im bit by the Apisto bug) and I don't want anything to harm them.


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## juilian75 (Aug 12, 2003)

..just got my hands on these....
got no info at all on breeding pencils except for the bekfordis


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## Sedghammer (Jan 5, 2004)

Where did you find them? I'll probably have to order them through an online shop so if anyone knows of a reliable source please let me know.


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## Sedghammer (Jan 5, 2004)

Anyone?


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## 2la (Aug 18, 2002)

Find what? There are three or four species being discussed in this thread.


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## Sedghammer (Jan 5, 2004)

I'm looking for any species of pencilfish.


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## elimmel (Dec 2, 2003)

read from somewhere on the net that female dwarf pencils have clear pelvic fins whereas the males have a tinge of red.
not sure whether this applies to coral reds too.


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## deathbloodydeath (Dec 17, 2007)

Juilian 75
If I am not mistaken, the male has white pigment on its dosal fins. Its dosal fin has three colors; red, white and black. But most of the time, the black and red colors are fading. If your tank is well planted and have black gravel, they show their best colors.


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