# Suggestions for 5 gallon



## ChemGuyEthan (Apr 13, 2014)

Seems like a nice little tank.

My initial impressions about your desired setup are you will absolutely need a better light. HC requires pretty high lighting to be happy and I'm sure that light is only "low light" at best. For the size, you could probably look into the finnex fixtures, planted plus or ray2. As far as I am aware, it's quite difficult to keep HC without CO2, so if you want it, minimum would be using a liquid carbon source, either excel or metricide.

For HC, I would suggest a finer substrate than Eco or gravel. I've heard good things about Activ-Flora, or maybe Flourite Black Sand would be good. Of course, Amazonia is king of substrates, IMO. But if you don't feel like spending the money, the others should be good.

Small tank like that, anubias nana petite comes to mind. That will grow on the branches. For moss, I would say anything except java. Java moss gets real stringy unless you keep on top of it. A few other alternatives for carpeting would be dwarf hair grass belem, glosso, marsilea minuta, hydrocotyle tripartita, or staurogyne repens. I believe all of those are happier at lower light levels. Other plants, I'd say some nice stems like a ludwigia or rotala, for the most part they do fine in low tech.

Best of luck!


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## Kirrie (Jun 22, 2013)

Thanks! I will look into those lights. It will be a few months before I have the money to set this up anyway, but I would like to start gathering the things I need at least.

As for the moss. I do have some java moss growing pretty well in one of my other tanks. I have tied it down to a piece of Mopani driftwood with some fishing line. I was considering something similar for this tank, but I will look into some other mosses first.

If I were to choose something besides HC, that doesn't require as much lighting, would I be able to use just the LEDs?

I have some Ludwigia in another tank. When I bought it, it was red, but the new growth is green. If I were to try it in this tank, what would I need to keep it red?

Edit: How many inches of substrate should I have for this tank? I only have 2-2.5 inches in my other tanks.


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## ChemGuyEthan (Apr 13, 2014)

Gotcha, yeah, price can be quite the factor, haha.

Well if you've already got java, no sense in messing with a good thing. If you find yourself looking for some, I like the look of christmas moss, a little more compact.

Umm...the minuta would probably do fine. I believe that stuff is pretty undemanding. Glosso maybe not as much, same with the s repens. The hair grass might also be ok. It's tough to say what will grow with these lights, but I would only aim for low light plants if you stick with it.

The ludwigia, as with all red plants, will need CO2, fertilization, and high lighting to be at their best red. There may be some people that manage to keep plants red without all of the above, but I imagine it would be quite challenging. So if you wanted it to be red, you would need high lighting, minimum. High lighting immediately implies some fertilization and at least liquid CO2 unless you want an algae-fest...


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## Kirrie (Jun 22, 2013)

It sounds like it will be a bit difficult to get the look I want without a better light, so I will probably end up looking for another light. 

The only thing I am worried about, is spending a lot of money on the light of course, or the light taking away from the overall look of the tank. I like the way the LED light hangs over the tank, and if possible, would like to be able to just attach something to that so it looks like it belongs there.

How many inches of substrate should I have for this tank? I only have 2-2.5 inches in my other tanks.


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## Fishly (Jan 8, 2010)

You don't need high light for red plants, you just need plants that are truly red. True red plants stay red even in low light, as long as they are healthy (read: have plenty of ferts and liquid or injected CO2). They include:
Alternanthera reineckii
Ludwigia inclinata
Ludwigia glandulosa
Ludwigia arcuata
Ludwigia repens
Ludwigia peruensis
Ludwigia sp. 'Red'
Rubin sword
C. wendtii 'Red'
C. wendtii 'Bronze'
Crypt. 'Florida Sunset'
Ammania gracilis
Ammania senegalensis
Tiger lotus
Barclaya longifolia
Red Bacopa

2-3" of substrate is fine. Have you considered using dirt?

For some low light scape ideas, check out this thread.


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## ChemGuyEthan (Apr 13, 2014)

That's a great list Fishly posted. I agree, the red plants don't "require" high lighting to see some color, but I think it's difficult to achieve nice, deep reds without the lighting side of things. At the very least though, some ferts and some form of carbon will help. And with lower lighting, the plants should at least be red at the tips near the top of the tank to give a nice pop of color.

Apologies for giving the impression that there is no way to see color without high lighting, cause that's not true. Just not quite the same effect as the intense lighting will give.


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## Kirrie (Jun 22, 2013)

Thanks for the list! I will look in to some of those.

I could use some help finding a good light. I really know nothing when it comes to lighting, so I don't know what to look for. Will the LEDs on the tank be able to really grow anything? Or will I most likely need better lighting no matter what I decide to grow?

If possible, I would like to find a light fixture that hangs over the tank rather than sitting on top of it, so it doesn't ruin the overall look of the tank.


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## Fishly (Jan 8, 2010)

Have you considered the Finnex Stingray? I just got one and it looks great on the tank. Should keep you in the low light range and I'm sure you could mod it to hang.


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## Kirrie (Jun 22, 2013)

I have decided to stick with the LED's and some low-medium light plants for now, with root tabs and liquid CO2. If it doesn't seem to be working, I'll get a better light later on.

As for the substrate, I think I want to use Seachems Flourite, but I'm not sure which of their products to use. I was considering either the black sand, or just the regular flourite gravel. According to their site, the gravel shouldn't ever need to be replaced, but it does not say the same for the sand so should I use the gravel just to be safe? Which one will be better for the plants?

Also, what kind of lighting does Elatine Triandra need? Some sources say it does not require high lighting, others do.

Thanks for all of your help so far!


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## Xiaozhuang (Feb 15, 2012)

If you're on a budget, yet are ambitious about growing plants, for small tanks a desk lamp with a high wattage CFL bulb will work fine. For a 5 gal, it's enough light to grow any carpet plant you want. Not as neat a setup as a fixture that seats on top the tank though. 










Flourite is inert/not nutrient rich initially, so you do need some form of base fert. It does have high CEC (arguably), which gives it the capacity to store nutrients. A cheap option that has a lot of bang for the buck is soil/MTS [personally I find far out-performs most aquarium substrates]. Alternatively, you could use ADA (higher cost). 

Elatine Triandra is not particularly picky, definitely not in the high-lighting category.


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## Kirrie (Jun 22, 2013)

I actually wouldn't mind using a desk lamp if I could find one that just hangs over the tank, like the one in your picture. If I get a lamp, how many watts should the light bulb be for a tall 5 gallon tank?

Where can I find the soil I would use? Would I just place some on the bottom of the tank and cover it with a layer of fluorite? 

Which is better for carpet plants, gravel or sand?


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## Xiaozhuang (Feb 15, 2012)

How many watts depends on how much light you want? I use the 24w spiral CFLs, then I tweak the height of the lamp to reduce the light if that's too much. 

You can search for soil recipes in the substrate section; people in the US use miracle organic grow ? You can probably find it online or in garden shops.

Either is fine; smaller plants root better in finer substrates so as long as the grain size is not too large its okay.


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## Kirrie (Jun 22, 2013)

Thank you so much for all of your help. I have been sticking to low tech tanks so far so I only have experience with low light plants that aren't picky. I would be lost trying to figure all of this stuff out on my own.

I found a desk lamp that I like, so I think I may go with that and a CFL bulb as you suggested.





 
I also looked at the sticky in the substrate section and decided to go with organic miracle grow, because it is cheap and easy to find. I'm guessing I could just cover that with a bit of fluorite gravel/sand then?

Is it safe for fish and shrimp? One of my bettas will be moving into this tank and I may try to keep some cherry shrimp with him since he is well behaved with some of my other fish and snails.


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## Bloomer (Mar 22, 2014)

I have the smaller 3 gal version of that tank called the Contour. It appears from the manual there was a 5 gal Contour, but I've never seen one, maybe that was renamed "Portrait". 

I like my Contour, it's very similar in appearance to our Eheim Aquastyles, the filter is hidden and easy to maintain and a small heater can be stuck in the filter compartment, invisible in the tank. From a plant growing perspective, it's not too good, an Aquastyle light is a blazing sun in comparison to the Contour's 12 LED's, 6 blue and 6 white.

The Portrait appears to have more LED's, but there would have to be many more of the same LED's, maybe 5x as many to grow plants decently. I have some simple plants in the Contour and they're alive and staying together, but not doing very well. The tank just has plants and some sword fry in it now, but will be upgraded with better lighting at some point. The substrate is black Floramax which works well in the other tanks I have it in, looks nice and is easy to find. All the Floramax's are relatively small and work well in small tanks. Some Flourites, "Dark" especially, are much bigger and look out of scale in smaller tanks. 

My 3 gal is not quite as bright as a Fluval Edge 6 gal with the stock light. 
So I can tell you what we did with the Edge to get good plant growth, maybe that will help in this situation.

We first swapped the original light for a 42 LED light from a 12 gal Edge which was better, but still rather dim. 

Then we moved a Finnex Fugeray Planted to the Edge just for kicks and it was massive overkill, hilariously bright, it had to be foot or so above the tank to not wash out colors. 

Next, I tried one of our Current USA Satellite Plus lights and that worked well. It was easy to dial in a decent color and dim it a bit so that with the 42 LED light on also, the tank looks great and grows excellent plants. We ended up buying an 18 in version, the smallest one. The satellite plus matches Edge styling well; Fuge Rays don't, so that was really what kept us from a Finnex with a dimmer. 

That tank has mostly small plants: downoi, AR mini, anubias nana under a bridge, cyperus helferi, some floating watersprite and a happy, lazy betta who slides into the sprite and lounges all day! It took some light tuning to get algae to disappear, but it did. No CO2 or ferts.

Unfortunately, the smallest Satellite Plus would overhang a Portrait quite a bit, but there are smaller Finnex Fuge Ray Planteds that would work well with a dimmer added for a low tech tank. Finnex also has a 60 LED goose neck clamp light that may be a good option, height is easily adjustable. Both Finnex Lights have red blue and white LED's and the blue ones can be switched off. Our Fuge Ray Planted has good color rendition, too.

From a simplicity angle, the CFL in a desk lamp idea is hard to beat. The daylight ones work well and have good color, plus they come in a few different sizes as well as in spot and flood configurations, so getting the right intensity and spread is easy.

Good luck!


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## Kirrie (Jun 22, 2013)

I did a lot of reading before buying this tank and I have found that the Contour 5 gallon is different from the Portrait 5 gallon, but not by much. I can't even remember what the differences were now.

I like the idea of keeping it as simple (and cheap) as possible, so I will probably just use a desk lamp with a CFL bulb.

If I use Floramax for the substrate, is that the only thing I need to add for the plants?

I am planning to keep Elatine Triandra, Pygmy Chain Sword or Dwarf Hairgrass, Java Moss, Anubias Nana Petite, a type of Crypt (undulate or wendtii), Crinum Calmistratum, and Pennywort.

I already have java moss, crypts, and crinum calmistratum in some of my other tanks that I could use._

_


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## Bloomer (Mar 22, 2014)

In a low tech tank, you may be fine with no ferts, just fish food and waste. Many plants can get carbon from carbonates in water, so that shouldn't be an issue if your water has any real KH. They'll get calcium in sufficient amounts if your GH is 2-3d or so. Algae can become a big problem with too much light. If the water column is lean and algae is a nuisance, that's a good sign light is too high and it should be reduced a bit at a time until algae becomes minimal. If your water chemistry is favorable, it's quite possible with proper light and maybe root tabs, super looking plants can be grown. 

The CFL idea is nice, I have a few tanks with them, but keep intensity stability in mind. When determining if lighting is OK, too low or too high, the bulb has to be a fixed distance from the tank all the time, it can't vary much or you'll get confused, so it would be a good idea to have a way to set the height so the bulb can't move. 

I think the plant choices should be modified a little to make things easier. There's a mix of lower and med light plants, which isn't really a problem if open and shaded areas can be provided, but I'm not sure how all that will fit in this tank. Try a few stems of Ludwigia repens, the top parts will be bright red closer to the lights. My blurry avatar is a repens stem in a low tech 29 gal. 

The betta tank pic has repens directly behind and alternanthera reineckii mini to the right.


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## Kirrie (Jun 22, 2013)

That's a beautiful picture and betta  Is that the one with the fins that have a feather pattern?

I was planning to use an adjustable desk lamp like this: 

Boston Harbor Architect Swing Arm Desk Lamp, Black - - Amazon.com

so it would be easy to adjust the height of the lamp and keep it in place.

I want this tank to be more heavily planted than my other betta tanks, so I tried to find plants for all areas of the tank.

I want to use the Elatine Triandra as a carpet type plant at the front of the tank, maybe just on one side. Then I was going to put the crypts directly behind it on one side to contrast the color. The java moss and anubias petite are going to be tied to manzanita branches (I may just leave the java moss in my other tank since it is doing really well there). Then the Crinum Calmistratum, and Pennywort were going to fill the back of the tank. I figured I could use the Pygmy Chain Sword or Dwarf Hairgrass to fill in any empty spaces, or just put it in another tank if there was no room.

The tank is probably smaller than I'm imagining, but I have other tanks I can put the plants in if I run out of room or it seems like something isn't working. I keep forgetting that the tank is tall rather than wide like the rest of my tanks.

Since bettas don't create too much waste, should I use root tabs?


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## Bloomer (Mar 22, 2014)

yes, that's clemente, his tank is a real jungle now and looks great, that pic was taken in August. 

I'd skip any ferts until you know they're needed; you could try tabs, just know where they were inserted so what is left can be vacuumed out if needed. 

That crinium is a really nice looking plant, another plant that's similar in a way and easy is aponogeton boivinianus. It has wider leaves and will quickly get to the surface, but if the longer leaves are pruned, it makes a nice background plant, looks like a sword but is nowhere near as thick and expansive.

It's the dark green plant in the background of this 20 gal.


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## Kirrie (Jun 22, 2013)

So the plan is to get the lamp and CFL bulb, and use Floramax for the substrate. I'll adjust the light as needed and add only add root tabs if they are needed. Thank you so much for all of the help 

That plant looks really nice. I may have to go with that instead.

Edit: I know I'll probably have to adjust the light a few times to get it to where the plants need it, but how many watts should the CFL bulb be to start out with?


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## Bloomer (Mar 22, 2014)

Not sure, I have a 23 watt 5000 K (daylight) flood somewhat above a 16 gal bow plant tank and it's fine. The common helical bulbs come in 23, 19 and 10 watts, a 10 watt may be OK, two 10 watts are fairly bright in a 10 gal hood, two 19 watts are very bright. 

Depends on the look you want, too, a 23 farther away from the tank will light the surroundings, too. I'm pretty sure a 10 watt will have to be close enough that only the tank interior will be lit. These are cheap bulbs and lend themselves to experimentation.


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## Kirrie (Jun 22, 2013)

How about these? 





 
I wouldn't mind it giving off some light outside of the tank


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## Bloomer (Mar 22, 2014)

I guess I missed the 14 w ones. That is the brand I have, got them at a box store, they work fine. 

Just for laughs, I have one of these in my garage, it replaced four 100 watt incandescents, it's a foot tall and _really_ bright! Love it! Serious low brow plant grower for big tanks. 

Full Spectrum Light Bulb - ALZO 85 watt Compact Fluorescent CFL - 5500K- 120V - ALZO Joyous Light daylight pure white light - 4250 Lumens - - Amazon.com

It would fit your lamp! :help:


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## Kirrie (Jun 22, 2013)

I will be ordering the 14 watt bulb and the lamp tonight. I'm going to see if they have Floramax in the pet store or not. Apparently it is sold in PetSmart, but I don't recall seeing it for the 6 horrible months I worked there. If not, I will order it next week. 

I can't wait to have the tank set up and planted


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## Bloomer (Mar 22, 2014)

Except for petsmart in-store, I couldn't find Floramax anywhere. The reason I use it is it's always in stock at a petsmart a mile from me and it's cheap. Eco's fine, black or plain flourite's OK. The red stuff is smaller, quite red though, if that's not an issue. Flourite "Dark" which is hard to find except on line, has really big granules and looks, literally, purple, like Barney, under some lights. :icon_mrgr You may want to avoid that one.


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## mjryan2176 (Nov 11, 2014)

Walmart has GE 6500k 13 watt CFLs for cheap. They are working great on my 5.5.


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## Kirrie (Jun 22, 2013)

I'm going to check PetSmart tomorrow. There is only one place in the store that I can think of where it might be. I worked there for 6 months before I was hired at a vet hospital so I think I would remember seeing it. Anything is possible though. Hopefully they do have it because then I can get the tank started sooner than I was planning. I just ordered the lamp so if I find Floramax tomorrow, all that is left is to buy the plants and I always get my plants from the same place. She sends me healthy, (usually snail free) plants.


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