# Suspected Columnaris or...?



## Nireht (Jan 26, 2011)

I believe I may have some fish with columnaris, or something, in my tank.

However, I have plenty of plants and two shrimp. I know salt is bad for plants, but can they survive if I put some in there until this (whatever it is) clears up? I have 3x green myrio, 1x anacharis, 1x hornwort, 1x green cabomba, 1x ludwigia ovalis, and 2x lobelia cardinalis.

I bought three endler guppies the other day. The store had just got them in that day. One turned out to be sickly when I got home. Not eating, very lethargic, smaller than the others, not as brightly colored, and it looked like he had something clearish or white on the base of his tail (really hard to see). No ich, no velvet, no obvious parasites hanging from him. I didn't introduce him to the tank but kept him in a specimen container. I later transferred him to a gallon container and added a teaspoon of salt and one drop of Quick Cure, he later died that day.

Now one of the other endlers has something white/light colored on his head.

I just changed the water, beforehand my nitrates were 10-20ppm and ammonia 0.25ppm. No nitrites. This is a new tank.

I do not have a hospital tank, but I do have a large specimen container (Lees brand).


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## Nubster (Aug 9, 2011)

I'd move them asap into anything that hold water, drop the temp, and add salt if you think it's columnaris. That stuff will wipe out your tank fast.

Then looking into some of the treatment options.


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## Nireht (Jan 26, 2011)

Nubster said:


> I'd move them asap into anything that hold water, drop the temp, and add salt if you think it's columnaris. That stuff will wipe out your tank fast.
> 
> Then looking into some of the treatment options.



I really have no idea what it is tho. If I treat them with something I may be using the wrong meds, stressing them out more, or perhaps they were simply being irritated by the 0.25ppm of ammonia?

If I add medication to the tank, even if the carbon removes it and I do a water change, doesn't some stay behind like in the sand? Would it be safe to add my shrimp back? How much water should be removed?

I have the following on hand: aquarium salt, aquarisol, quick cure, tetracycline, and prazipro. I may be able to buy Jungle Lab's Clear Water (which is pure Potassium Permanganate) soon from Walmart.

I'm going to search around to see what I can put the bigger plants in that can't fit in my 5g betta tank.


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## Nireht (Jan 26, 2011)

*Update*

I feel pretty confident it is columnaris now after reading up on it some more. 

I am treating the whole tank. Took out all of my plants except my hornwort. Lowered the temp from 78 to 74, 4 tablespoons of salt twice a day (up to three days), and using tetracycline. I gave the sickest one an overdosed 10 min Quick Cure bath which has malachite green in it.

It's the best I can do with what I have on hand. I'd rather use a Methylene Blue or potassium permanganate as a dip/bath and kanamycin for the whole tank but I don't have those.


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## PhillCA (Jan 26, 2012)

i recommend treating the sick fish with furan2 for a couple weeks. I lost 6 of 13 altum angel because of columnaris.


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## Nubster (Aug 9, 2011)

I lost 20+ fish in less than 5 days due to it and that was while treating with Furan 2.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

You may have Columnaris but it is very contagious and spreads rapidly from what I've heard and read but there are many other things it could be, also there is a lot of bad advise on the subject out there so good luck. I liked this site  for treatment and other advise, I'm treating a fish now for Saprolegnia and it is a long process but this might help.

The maximum salt to use in a planted aquarium is one tablespoon per 5 gallons but this is the high end limit, I am using 1 teaspoon per 5 gallon with no problems to the plants, so this is only 1/3 of the max amount, salt in only removed by water changes, carbon and evaporation do not remove it so keep that in mind. Fish need salt to produce a slime coat which helps to keep disease off of the skin/scales so it is needed for medications to work properly. Use aquarium salt and Chiclid salt from Seachem is ok too, for 30 minute to 1 hour baths you can use table or kosher salt but don't use them in a tank because the have anti caking agents that can build up, but they are by no means toxic and great for a quick bath.

I'm giving my fish baths twice a day, I use a quart of aquarium water with a dissolved teaspoon of salt (it's a brackish fish so it can tolerate more, but you may only want to use half as much) I add 5 drops of Methylene Blue, 1.5 ml of Paraguard, and 0.09 grams of Furan 2, it was a bad infection so it has been a week and I'm not done

I was using paraguard in the tank but with 2 baths per day I'm just leaving it at water and salt and this may be a mistake but we'll see.

I couldn't find any but potassium permanganate is Jungle Labs Clear Water and is better than Methylene Blue if you can find it (the above website carries it) plus Furan 2 and Kanamycin make a strong bath for Columnaris and you also want to add salt to this bath and treat the fish twice per day.

It's hard to treat them in a tank IMO because you don't know what medicine has dissipated and what remains even if you use carbon after a treatment, which you should do to remove medications and any other build up of nasty stuff.

Don't put your shrimp back for as long as you can stand, most of these meds will kill invertebrates. Some of the meds can kill off you good bacteria and plants so it's best to do a bath if you can, plus some will stain the silicone in the tank.


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## Nireht (Jan 26, 2011)

Unfortunately the one that I gave the Quick Cure bath died later that day. After the bath he just laid on the bottom and wouldn't move for a while. Both of his gills were red.

I remember seeing the same type of "fungus" that was on one of his gills also surrounding some food that had been left in the tank (a New Life Spectrum wafer).


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## DarkMousy (Aug 8, 2011)

I've tried so many different meds and the only thing that has ever saved fish from columnaris outbreaks in my tanks has been salt with religious water changes. 

My sister called me sometime last year saying her son's 3" goldfish was looking rather ragged (symptoms pointed towards columnaris). I told her to put the fish in a 2 gallon pail with some aged tap water and a teaspoon of sea salt, changing half the water every 2 days and adding 1/2 tsp salt after each water change. The fish bounced back and is doing very well to this day. I'm a firm believer in salt for treating columnaris, at least in less advanced stages.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Nireht said:


> Unfortunately the one that I gave the Quick Cure bath died later that day. After the bath he just laid on the bottom and wouldn't move for a while. Both of his gills were red.
> 
> I remember seeing the same type of "fungus" that was on one of his gills also surrounding some food that had been left in the tank (a New Life Spectrum wafer).


That is more than likely Saprolegnia and is often described as the fungus you would see on driftwood or old food, it has what most describe as a branch like or hair like structure, too bad he didn't make it and after it gets a good foot hold it can be very difficult to cure.

Salt is a good preventative measure because the thicker the slim coat the better they are protected.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I just read and article for the 4th or 5th time and it said not to mix the medications with oxidizers like potassium permanganate/jungle clear water or Mardel Maroxy, etc. So at this point I'm not sure if I've been doing thing correctly and I may have given bad info earlier.

My fish has been making very slow progress but today I did not add the Methylene blue to the bath because I'm not quite sure if it is considered an oxidizer, so I'll try it this way to see if it works any better. The way I've been doing it did not kill the fish but progress is slow and it's mouth is covered with the fungus/mold so it can't eat, at this point I've had the fish 40 days and it will likely starve to death if it's mouth is not clear very soon, I do add food every couple days but it has only disappeared once, so I remove it after 2 days.

I do know if it is truly Columnaris your stock will be dead quickly just as many have stated so we could only hope it is another form of fungus/mold.


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## Nireht (Jan 26, 2011)

Well, my two feeder guppies are showing no outward signs of illness. The remaining endler still has something light/grey colored on his head. He isn't very active, sits on the bottom and doesn't react much or at all to the light being turned on. The red cherry shrimp is still alive. I dosed the last 4 tablespoons of salt tonight. I have two more doses of tetracycline. Between water changes I use Stress Coat to keep the ammonia down, I think my biofilter has either been hampered or bit the dust. My heater has been unplugged and I keep the light off.

The hornwort, the only plant I kept in the tank, has brownish tips on some needles.


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## junko (Sep 9, 2011)

my daughter bombed her tank with furan 2 and kanaplex because of recurring columnaris. Her shrimp did fine but we notice her melon sword and vals have melted considerable since the treatment.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Nireht said:


> Well, my two feeder guppies are showing no outward signs of illness. The remaining endler still has something light/grey colored on his head. He isn't very active, sits on the bottom and doesn't react much or at all to the light being turned on. The red cherry shrimp is still alive. I dosed the last 4 tablespoons of salt tonight. I have two more doses of tetracycline. Between water changes I use Stress Coat to keep the ammonia down, I think my biofilter has either been hampered or bit the dust. My heater has been unplugged and I keep the light off.
> 
> The hornwort, the only plant I kept in the tank, has brownish tips on some needles.


Try to net the Endler and use a quart jug, gladware, etc. and do some 30 or 60 minute high salt baths, if you can add 5 drops of Methylene Blue it might be enough if you can do 2 per day until it's gone, good luck.



junko said:


> my daughter bombed her tank with furan 2 and kanaplex because of recurring columnaris. Her shrimp did fine but we notice her melon sword and vals have melted considerable since the treatment.


How did the bomb work, are the fish healthy?


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## junko (Sep 9, 2011)

150EH said:


> Try to net the Endler and use a quart jug, gladware, etc. and do some 30 or 60 minute high salt baths, if you can add 5 drops of Methylene Blue it might be enough if you can do 2 per day until it's gone, good luck.
> 
> 
> 
> How did the bomb work, are the fish healthy?


so far- it was only a couple of weeks ago!


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## Nubster (Aug 9, 2011)

My swords melted too when I used Furan 2 but they came back nicely.


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