# Household water softener - safe?



## Sobo (Aug 23, 2017)

My house has a softener too but the line to the kitchen sink was bypassed before the softener due to sodium in drinking water effects. I believe that might be the case with your piping too. Check the piping drawings to see if thats the case or look if there is a T before the softener.

You'd want to avoid softened water for multiple reasons. It takes away Ca and Mg which are needed by your plants. Makes gH=0. Sodium will adversely affect the surface transfer of ions from fertilizers, CO2, O2 etc. Fish wont appreciate the excess sodium either.


----------



## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

It's fine to run if you gH boost it to decent levels, but I agree with sobo, look for a bypass and test that water.


----------



## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

I'm in exactly the same situation and I am using an outside water hose for WC year around.

Why? In short, salt based water softeners "replace" Ca and Mg for, usually, NaCl. We want the first 2 in our tanks, in reasonable ammounts, and we do not want the resulting sodium.

Depending on how hard your tap is, you either go with it, some mix of RO, or rebuilt RO.
No free lunch.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/home/interior-projects/how-to/a150/1275126/


----------



## bordercollie05 (Apr 11, 2008)

Thank you all so much! I will use outside water - I know for certain it isn't hooked up to the softener. I will just have to warm it up before water changes. I'll check into the kitchen sink too, but I think that the whole house is on the softener.

Thanks again. I am very excited to have a tank again after about an 8 year break.


----------



## Darkblade48 (Jan 4, 2008)

Another option that I didn't see mention is to use a potassium based softener; this will get around the issue of sodium cations in the water, but you will still need to add back calcium and magnesium


----------



## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

Darkblade48 said:


> Another option that I didn't see mention is to use a potassium based softener; this will get around the issue of sodium cations in the water, but you will still need to add back calcium and magnesium


 @Darkblade48: We are actually using potassium cloride instead of sodium chloride in our whole house water softener system. In our case, the filtered water goes down to ~ 6 kH/gH. Extra K is good, but I am still woried about the extra chloride.

Thinking this through a bit more: ammonia + chlorine -> chloramine. Both chlorine and chloramine are toxic to fish, to different degress, and both react with water, producing different concentrations of HAA and THM. Chloramine by itself produces NDMA?

Now, Prime binds chlorine and chloramine. Chloride = chlorine + electron.

Case 1: add Prime to tap (or filtered water), add result to tank
Case 2: add Prime to tank, add tap (or filtered water) to tank

I do both, depending on the tank size.

My questions then become:
Q1: effect of HAA / THM / NDMA on fish / plants
Q2: are cases 1 and 2 equivalent (probably not)
Q3: need more Prime for filtered water vs tap for the extra chloride

I'm sure there are many holes above and my head hurts but I want to nail the real answer down once and for all.


----------



## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

I've lived in homes with both city and softened well water. 

I think much of it depends on the goals for your tank. If you are more low light low tech, I wouldn't worry about it all. I never saw any difference in fish or plant health. Do some google searches and you will find plenty of people with successful tanks with softened water. Keep in mind if working properly, GH will come out at zero, so you would want to boost that back up a bit. 

I see you are in Chelsea, so it could be your water is softened because you are on a well? If so, you may want to think twice about using unsoftened water. The reason being is the water here (I'm down the road from you in Novi) can be loaded with iron. If so, the raw water can stain everything in the tank in no time. And keep in mind KH is unaffected by the softener. If coming from a well here in Michigan, KH is usually pretty high (around 20 or so). No problem for most plants and fish, but not optimal for some sensitive species.

Another thing to keep in mind is that if you are on a well, the softened water will come out with a pretty high TDS. That's normal. Again, really isn't much of a problem for most plants and fish. But if your intention is to go high tech high light and grow more sensitive species, or keep sensitive shrimp, then RO water is the way to go. That's what I ended up doing with my tank. 

All just based on my personal experience. Hope that helps and good luck with the tank in your new home.


----------



## Rogozhin75 (Aug 15, 2017)

Our water is still hard even after softening, I've been running two tanks (30 gallon community and a 75 gallon cichlid) for a year now using the softened water (it tested at 20 and I have it dialed in at 7) without any issues, I have plants but I know that they won't grow well (they all stay small).


----------



## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

I've been using water softeners for many decades and, early on, used the softened water in my aquariums. When I first realized that it limited growth capabilities in plants, I began using 'bypassed' water and saw a noticeable difference. A lot has to do with how hard your water is. The harder it is, the more ion exchange that has to happen and that means that higher levels of salt (NaCl) must be used. As I moved to different parts of the Country, with varying degrees of hardness, I could see this difference in the number of salt bags I had to buy (assumes consistent parameters on the softener).

So, if you have high hardness, you will be putting a lot more salt into your water than if your hardness is low. In an aquarium, you will get different results in plant growth depending upon how much salt is required to soften your water.

Using potassium as a substitute for salt does work, but you'll want to be as careful about drinking too much potassium as are about sodium. Additionally, potassium will cost about 4 times as much as sodium. So, if you use a 40 lb bag a month,that's $300 / yr for potassium and $80 for sodium. With the savings in using sodium, you could buy a good RO/DI unit and have "pure" water.

Find the bypass valve on your softener and use it!


----------



## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

Softeners are one of those things that often get talked about but often not understood. There is the idea that when we put X amount of salt in the barrel and it is gone it has to be in the water. WRONG!
The idea of most softeners is that they make brine with the salt, This brine is then flushed through the resin and the ions are swapped to trap the calcium and magnesium but that is where many people stop and they miss a really important point. There is also a rinse cycle and the salt, CA and MG are flushed/rinsed out of the resin and down the drain! There is obviously SOME salt left after the rinse, just as there is SOME detergent left on dishes after they are washed. We do get some salt but then the question becomes how much and how bad is it for drinking. Many compare the salt we get from drinking softened water to the amount we get in eating a slice of white bread! So if one is in a medical situation where you should not eat ANY salt, do what the doc says but before getting too excited about the salt in your water, you should first stop eating any type of canned food, any bread and certainly eat no potato chips! People do often change from using salt to using potassium in the softener but most do not find it worthwhile as they are still eating potato chips and soup and the potassium is near $20 versus $5 for salt. 
I find it does not harm my grass even though I did run softened water to the sprinklers on one side. I hate paying for salt that I spread on the yard but that was better than the plumbing required and the grass/flowers don't care. 

Thoughts on a softener that doesn't soften? It is too small, the resin bed needs cleaned/replaced or the machine is not set up right. They are somewhat like filters on those points. If it is an old softener, the resin may be suspect asit can "wear" out.


----------



## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

PlantedRich said:


> I find it does not harm my grass even though I did run softened water to the sprinklers on one side. I hate paying for salt that I spread on the yard but that was better than the plumbing required and the grass/flowers don't care.


It's funny you say that. I thought I was the only one. Actually my whole yard (acre 12 zones) gets softened water (and grows like mad!). Too much brick paver patio, walk ways, driveway, light colored brick on house, etc. to permanently stain. 

My system is like a commercial set up. About 10 bags a month in the summer. Crazy I know.

And I agree, IMO the effects of softened water on plants/fish/people is overstated a bit. Many think all of that salt is just mixed into the water. As you pointed out, that's not the way it works. 

Funny thing is back in the 70's/80's, adding salt to a fresh water aquarium was very popular. Most LFS did so with every tank. The idea was that the fish developed a thicker slime coat and were less prone to disease and were healthier.

Experiences will vary, but other than a few sensitive species, I never had an issue growing plants in it. And I can think of at least a dozen other things you could be doing that would have a more negative effect.


----------



## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

PlantedRich said:


> Softeners are one of those things that often get talked about but often not understood. There is the idea that when we put X amount of salt in the barrel and it is gone it has to be in the water. WRONG!
> The idea of most softeners is that they make brine with the salt, This brine is then flushed through the resin and the ions are swapped to trap the calcium and magnesium but that is where many people stop and they miss a really important point. There is also a rinse cycle and the salt, CA and MG are flushed/rinsed out of the resin and down the drain! There is obviously SOME salt left after the rinse, just as there is SOME detergent left on dishes after they are washed. We do get some salt but then the question becomes how much and how bad is it for drinking. Many compare the salt we get from drinking softened water to the amount we get in eating a slice of white bread! So if one is in a medical situation where you should not eat ANY salt, do what the doc says but before getting too excited about the salt in your water, you should first stop eating any type of canned food, any bread and certainly eat no potato chips!


Put another way: 1 dGH = ~1 grain per gallon. 10 dGH water, when softened, will yield roughly 20 mg of sodium per 8 oz glass of water or ~300 mg sodium in a 20 gal tank.



Greggz said:


> Funny thing is back in the 70's/80's, adding salt to a fresh water aquarium was very popular. Most LFS did so with every tank. The idea was that the fish developed a thicker slime coat and were less prone to disease and were healthier.
> 
> Experiences will vary, but other than a few sensitive species, I never had an issue growing plants in it. And I can think of at least a dozen other things you could be doing that would have a more negative effect.


Funny: I still have an old API "Aquarium Salt" sitting around from those days. I used it to treat different types of fungus on fish, but I did always see deterioration in my plants when using it. I probably used a heavier dose than you did, although I never did the weekly maintenance dose they recommended back then.


----------



## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

When we think of the harm from salt in the tank, it is also worth noting that many of the meds we use also contain salt and there are quite a few who still do like to use salt in their freshwater tanks as it is thought that it will increase the slime coat. Personally, I do not want to have a thicker slime coat, even if it would help prevent external parasites like ich from being able to "set the hook", as I much prefer to work to avoid stressing the fish by irritating them with salt. If/when I do find I have a parasite that the extra slime might work against, I much prefer to kill the parasite. Which brings up the thought of how many do use heat and high salt content to cure ich,
even though we do know that really high salt content is not the best for plants. 
Salt content in a can of soup? 870 MG!!!! So using the figures by Deanna above, we would get close to 20 times as much salt if we ate 1/2 can of Campbell's cream of chicken soup. 
Pork and beans 390 MG
Charro beans? Just don't look at the 490 MG!!
So if the doctor tells you to avoid salt, you can do a lot better by cutting out some of your favorite foods than avoiding the softened water!


----------



## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

PlantedRich said:


> When we think of the harm from salt in the tank, it is also worth noting that many of the meds we use also contain salt and there are quite a few who still do like to use salt in their freshwater tanks as it is thought that it will increase the slime coat. Personally, I do not want to have a thicker slime coat, even if it would help prevent external parasites like ich from being able to "set the hook", as I much prefer to work to avoid stressing the fish by irritating them with salt. If/when I do find I have a parasite that the extra slime might work against, I much prefer to kill the parasite. Which brings up the thought of how many do use heat and high salt content to cure ich,
> even though we do know that really high salt content is not the best for plants.


Used to do it: high heat & salt. Then went to an extended Prazipro treatment which seemed to kill any parasites (I still do this once a year just as a basic worming precaution). However, in sincerity, I haven't had a parasitic or fungal outbreak on a single fish in about 8-10 years. QT helps, but I've found that a high-end UVS really kills the bugs. I know: different topic.



PlantedRich said:


> Salt content in a can of soup? 870 MG!!!! So using the figures by Deanna above, we would get close to 20 times as much salt if we ate 1/2 can of Campbell's cream of chicken soup.
> Pork and beans 390 MG
> Charro beans? Just don't look at the 490 MG!!
> So if the doctor tells you to avoid salt, you can do a lot better by cutting out some of your favorite foods than avoiding the softened water!


...and the new thinking is that sodium isn't the main contributor to blood pressure problems: sugar is equal or higher. So, you certainly don't want that slice of white bread if you're boiling over.


----------



## Darkblade48 (Jan 4, 2008)

OVT said:


> @Darkblade48: We are actually using potassium cloride instead of sodium chloride in our whole house water softener system. In our case, the filtered water goes down to ~ 6 kH/gH. Extra K is good, but I am still woried about the extra chloride.


The extra chloride may be a bit of concern, as it ultimately increases your TDS. 



OVT said:


> Thinking this through a bit more: ammonia + chlorine -> chloramine.


This reaction occurs as an equilibrium, and I'm willing to bet that the Ksp constant is quite low. 



OVT said:


> Chloride = chlorine + electron.


It's not really that simple; to say that chloride will have the same effect as chlorine would be incorrect.



OVT said:


> Case 1: add Prime to tap (or filtered water), add result to tank
> Case 2: add Prime to tank, add tap (or filtered water) to tank
> 
> My questions then become:
> ...


Question 1: Unsure; you will have to check the literature for this
Question 2: For all intents and purposes, it is the same. Neutralization of the chlorine/chloramine would happen nearly instantaneously 
Question 3: Prime does nothing to chloride anions


----------



## Rogozhin75 (Aug 15, 2017)

Deanna said:


> I've been using water softeners for many decades and, early on, used the softened water in my aquariums. When I first realized that it limited growth capabilities in plants, I began using 'bypassed' water and saw a noticeable difference. A lot has to do with how hard your water is. The harder it is, the more ion exchange that has to happen and that means that higher levels of salt (NaCl) must be used. As I moved to different parts of the Country, with varying degrees of hardness, I could see this difference in the number of salt bags I had to buy (assumes consistent parameters on the softener).
> 
> So, if you have high hardness, you will be putting a lot more salt into your water than if your hardness is low. In an aquarium, you will get different results in plant growth depending upon how much salt is required to soften your water.
> 
> ...


The problem with this is that your hot water heater already has softened water in it so even if you bypass the softener you will have to drain your hot water tank.


----------



## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

Rogozhin75 said:


> The problem with this is that your hot water heater already has softened water in it so even if you bypass the softener you will have to drain your hot water tank.


No, there is a bypass valve on the softener that can be engaged temporarily. So, you engage the bypass, fill your aquarium, then re-engage the softener.


----------



## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

Deanna said:


> No, there is a bypass valve on the softener that can be engaged temporarily. So, you engage the bypass, fill your aquarium, then re-engage the softener.


 @Deanna: do you have an instant-on tankless water heater? A tank-based household water heater is around 50g.


----------



## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

That is the biggest struggle I have with bypassing the water heater, I have to heat up the non-softened water substantially and mix with room temp RO to get roughly to the tank's temp. One fix is to prepare ahead and buy a storage container that you feel comfortable using an aquarium heater in, add water + turn on heater/circulation pump and wait. Of course this has a cost and a lot of the time it is simply not convenient depending on your water change:life activities schedules. 

I can see bigger tanks being a real pain, but on smaller tanks its easy to heat up smaller volumes of water.


----------



## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

@Quagulator: I think you mentioned it before, but where is your access to un-softened water? Have you considered using unheated RO mix? Your process sounds like a pain, especially if you need a larger water volume.


----------



## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

OVT said:


> @Deanna: do you have an instant-on tankless water heater? A tank-based household water heater is around 50g.


No, I have a 66 gal electric water heater. The bypass is on the water softener. I have had four softeners in different places I've lived (Culligan and others) and they have all had bypass valves. Some are plunger types and others are knob types. Very simple: takes 1 second to change from soft to hard and back again. So, as long as you aren't running any hot water in the house (causing the hot water heater to refill), you can bypass the softener without topping the hot water heater with hard water.


----------



## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

Alright and thanks, I got the same type of by-pass and if I want to use an indoor faucet then I need to run it cold only and flush out whatever treated water is in the pipes.


----------



## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

Deanna said:


> No, I have a 66 gal electric water heater. The bypass is on the water softener. I have had four softeners in different places I've lived (Culligan and others) and they have all had bypass valves. Some are plunger types and others are knob types. Very simple: takes 1 second to change from soft to hard and back again. So, as long as you aren't running any hot water in the house (causing the hot water heater to refill), you can bypass the softener without topping the hot water heater with hard water.


It is true that most softeners do have a bypass on the system but it is not something that I would recommend for frequent use as they are pretty low grade bypasses. The main problem with using them may not be how effective but how much extra maintenance it involves on the softener. As one of my curious jobs, I did softener maintenance in the St. Louis area for about a year and replacing/repairing the bypass was one of the big items that kept me busy. 
But also the process to get raw water is somewhat more difficult than just closing the bypass. Depending on how much water line is between the softener bypass and where you take the water for the tank, it can take a pretty fair amount of time and water to waste to get the softened water in the line replaced with raw water.
There will be lots of different situations for everybody but I do plumbing and it does make it easier but I really recommend looking at what it takes to add a tee into the line at some point before before the softener and run that line to a point where it is convenient to access for the tank. This tee can be at any point between where the line enters the house and the softener but in my case, I did choose to have the "fishroom" next to the garage where the water heater, softener and all are located. That left it easy to cut the PVC line into the softener, add a tee, and go through the wall to have a faucet just inside the bedroom. Probably the only house on the street with running water in the bedroom!! :grin2:
But most folks don't have the plumbing setting nearly outside and have to fight with being on a slab foundation. Got to love those basements for ease of plumbing things!


----------



## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

PlantedRich said:


> It is true that most softeners do have a bypass on the system but it is not something that I would recommend for frequent use as they are pretty low grade bypasses. The main problem with using them may not be how effective but how much extra maintenance it involves on the softener. As one of my curious jobs, I did softener maintenance in the St. Louis area for about a year and replacing/repairing the bypass was one of the big items that kept me busy.
> But also the process to get raw water is somewhat more difficult than just closing the bypass. Depending on how much water line is between the softener bypass and where you take the water for the tank, it can take a pretty fair amount of time and water to waste to get the softened water in the line replaced with raw water.
> There will be lots of different situations for everybody but I do plumbing and it does make it easier but I really recommend looking at what it takes to add a tee into the line at some point before before the softener and run that line to a point where it is convenient to access for the tank. This tee can be at any point between where the line enters the house and the softener but in my case, I did choose to have the "fishroom" next to the garage where the water heater, softener and all are located. That left it easy to cut the PVC line into the softener, add a tee, and go through the wall to have a faucet just inside the bedroom. Probably the only house on the street with running water in the bedroom!! :grin2:
> But most folks don't have the plumbing setting nearly outside and have to fight with being on a slab foundation. Got to love those basements for ease of plumbing things!


The "T" you mentioned is the bypass I was referring to on all of my softeners. It sits in front of the softener, as you recommended. I thought they were standard installation on all softeners. I do flush the line I'm using, when bypassed, before using the raw water.


----------



## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

OVT said:


> @Quagulator: I think you mentioned it before, but where is your access to un-softened water? Have you considered using unheated RO mix? Your process sounds like a pain, especially if you need a larger water volume.


 @OVT

My access is an outside faucet for the garden hose, I may do an unheated mix, the tank should only drop 5-6 degrees F.... 

My process would certainly be a pain in larger tanks, which I will be experiencing later this spring after my busy season is over with, but for my 30 gal I'm running now it isn't too bad, takes me a total of 30 minutes to have enough water for a ~60% water change. But on my 90 gal I'll be tackling.... I think I'll have to buy some heaters and a large storage tote instead of using various other heating methods. 

I might bypass the whole Tap:RO mix and just kH + gH boost if my plants won't smarten up....


----------



## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

Quagulator said:


> @OVT
> 
> My access is an outside faucet for the garden hose, I may do an unheated mix, the tank should only drop 5-6 degrees F....
> 
> ...


When thinking of storing extra water, I might look at finding food grade barrels if they are handy to get in your area. They have some real advantages over the totes as they are stronger and designed to hold liquids. Part of that is they are much cheaper in my area and they are much stronger so that they can also serve as a stand for extra tanks! I had not considered how many products might come in these barrels until I got a few. Items of all sorts from cookie flavors to beer to hot sauce come in plastic barrels. I kind of favor the vanilla flavoring! :laugh2:


----------



## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

@PlantedRich: yep, I got it with a by-pass and a T:










When we were selling the previous house we built, the buyers were asking why we had so many wet bars in the place.

In the house before that, guests joked about 3 sinks in the kitchen.

Anyways, I am still trying to wrap my head around whether hard water treated with potassium sulfate is safe to use in a planted tank. At $25/40# bag, I want my part of that K.

I could just try it in a smaller tank and see what happens but I would rather understand the water chemistry first.


----------



## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

Yes, that is the way I suggest for getting the raw water as it doesn't need to have the bypass at the left closed to get raw water. That is pretty much what I expect with the tap on the output from the softener. The gives the maintenance guys a place to test the water coming out of the softener without having to go to some spot in the house and wait to make sure he had cleared all the old water. He can just get it at the softener, which gives a much better /quicker sample for testing. But with city pressure from the outside at the added faucet and very little pressure from the house side, there is no need of wearing out the bypass to get raw water. 
The new installs will make it much easier for the novice to add the faucet for raw water as they are often using flex connections for in/out. That can make it comparatively easy to take a flex off and add a few fittings to add a tap. I changed out my softener here as the resin bed had seen better days and the new softener is so much more efficient that I think it will give me payback in about a year. Too bad I didn't see the advantages of going new before I struggled to get the hard plumbing put back in place as it would have been much easier to fit it all with flex.
We do all have to sort out what fits best for us.


----------



## Rogozhin75 (Aug 15, 2017)

Deanna said:


> No, there is a bypass valve on the softener that can be engaged temporarily. So, you engage the bypass, fill your aquarium, then re-engage the softener.


Yes, you're withdrawing from the softened water that is already in the hot water heater (at least in my setup) since we spliced the softener right off the main line coming through in the foundation. I can get raw cold water easily but I'd have to put in T between the softener and the hot water tank to make it work for heated water. 

Bypassing with a Culligan that is softening from the main water line will have to push all the hot water out of the tank before you get raw water at the temp you want.


----------



## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

Rogozhin75 said:


> Yes, you're withdrawing from the softened water that is already in the hot water heater (at least in my setup) since we spliced the softener right off the main line coming through in the foundation. I can get raw cold water easily but I'd have to put in T between the softener and the hot water tank to make it work for heated water.
> 
> Bypassing with a Culligan that is softening from the main water line will have to push all the hot water out of the tank before you get raw water at the temp you want.


I would agree with this in most cases that I have seen as the water heater is one of the main points that of advantage to have soft water. The soft water going through the heater doesn't get all the hard water deposits that hard water forms as the water is heated. When you change out a water heater used on hard water it is almost impossible for one guy to load the old one as it may have 40-50 pounds of limestone baked into the bottom! So the value of soft water is that the heater lasts longer as well as you use less gas due to not trying to heat water with a couple inches of limestone in the way. 
When adding hot water, it will be from the water heater and if the softener bypass is thrown, it may run really slow as there is no line pressure behind the flow, only the head developed by the height of the heater. 
The bigger problem to me is using the bypass too frequently as it is often just a set of O-rings which wear pretty quickly. This is a link to dozens of different bypass types and it shows the rings which wear out :
https://www.google.com/search?q=wat...hVm9IMKHTSKANkQ9QEIOTAH#imgrc=vTYPcNshfkoWLM:


----------



## Rogozhin75 (Aug 15, 2017)

PlantedRich said:


> I would agree with this in most cases that I have seen as the water heater is one of the main points that of advantage to have soft water. The soft water going through the heater doesn't get all the hard water deposits that hard water forms as the water is heated. When you change out a water heater used on hard water it is almost impossible for one guy to load the old one as it may have 40-50 pounds of limestone baked into the bottom! So the value of soft water is that the heater lasts longer as well as you use less gas due to not trying to heat water with a couple inches of limestone in the way.
> When adding hot water, it will be from the water heater and if the softener bypass is thrown, it may run really slow as there is no line pressure behind the flow, only the head developed by the height of the heater.
> The bigger problem to me is using the bypass too frequently as it is often just a set of O-rings which wear pretty quickly. This is a link to dozens of different bypass types and it shows the rings which wear out :
> https://www.google.com/search?q=wat...hVm9IMKHTSKANkQ9QEIOTAH#imgrc=vTYPcNshfkoWLM:


Yep! There's no point in using the flimsy Culligan plastic bypass valve to try for some raw water when you can just hook up a hose from one of the outside lines (if you want to pull cold raw). If you're running a whole house softener you're going to have to have to plumb in a t fitting like one of our users already mentioned.

For my situation right now with my two tanks it's not worth it.


----------



## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

Rogozhin75 said:


> Yes, you're withdrawing from the softened water that is already in the hot water heater (at least in my setup) since we spliced the softener right off the main line coming through in the foundation. I can get raw cold water easily but I'd have to put in T between the softener and the hot water tank to make it work for heated water.
> 
> Bypassing with a Culligan that is softening from the main water line will have to push all the hot water out of the tank before you get raw water at the temp you want.


You're right. I see what you're concerned about. I just never put raw water into the water heater (didn't want to 'contaminate' it), so it was never an issue with me since I only bypass for purposes of cold raw water needs. 

For my replacement water, I used to fill gallon milk jugs with raw water and heat each one in the mw for 2.5 minutes, which took a while for 15 gallons. Now I have an altogether different system (just put it up here http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/9-equipment/1249929-python-2.html, post 22, a few hours ago) and I no longer need to bypass or mw.


----------



## Surf (Jun 13, 2017)

> In our case, the filtered water goes down to ~ 6 kH/gH. Extra K is good, but I am still woried about the extra chloride.


Chloride levels are probably a lot lower than you think. The resin in the softener binds to Calcium and magnesium, In the process sodium is released in the form of sodium bicarbonate but with little to no chloride. The chloride stays in the resin and converts the calcium and magnesium carbonate into calcium and magnesium chloride. The Ca/Mg chloride is water soluble and is flushed out of the resin when it is recharged with sodium or potassium chloride. After the resin is recharged the resin is rinsed with tap water to remove most of the residual sodium or potassium chloride out of the resin. Once that is done the softener comes back on line and proves softrned water to home residence. 

While some people consider potassium chloride good for the tank (because plants need the potassium). But too much potassium can be lethal to animals and people (is can cause heart problems). For animals and people sodium is not as dangerous. 

One person recently posted that found he his shrimp and snails would always die in his RO tank. He was boosting KH with potassium bicarbonate. So the tank had very little sodium in it. He found that by switching to sodium bicarbonate the snails and shrimp would not die. So a tank needs a balance of sodium and potassium for optimal health of the animals. 

Also the residual chloride that in in the softened water should also not harm your plants. There is simply not that much in softened water. Also the little that is there will help the plants since plants also need Chlorides to grow. Most fertilizers don't include chlorine. While it is probably very rare, chlorine deficiency in plants is possible if the water has insufficient chlorides present. 5ppm of sodium chloride should be more than enough to satisfy chlorine needs of the plants.

If you are still concerned about high KH and or chlorides install a RO system under the kitchen sink. An RO system would easily remove most of the sodium chlorides and carbonate in the water. The RO filter might also last longer when it is filtering softened water. The softened water would plug up the RO filter slower than a filter connected to hard tap water.


----------



## Rogozhin75 (Aug 15, 2017)

Deanna said:


> You're right. I see what you're concerned about. I just never put raw water into the water heater (didn't want to 'contaminate' it), so it was never an issue with me since I only bypass for purposes of cold raw water needs.
> 
> For my replacement water, I used to fill gallon milk jugs with raw water and heat each one in the mw for 2.5 minutes, which took a while for 15 gallons. Now I have an altogether different system (just put it up here http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/9-equipment/1249929-python-2.html, post 22, a few hours ago) and I no longer need to bypass or mw.


I think I understand, but I'm not putting raw water into the water heater either (it's softened), which is the point of having a whole house softener. This thread has brought to my attention that I need to have a plumber come out to site and install a bypass T fitting between the cold and hot output lines so I can use my python to fill my tanks with heated raw water.


----------



## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

I am currently in an area where the incoming water lines are buried very shallow as it rarely freezes hard for long enough to bother buried lines. That shallow bury can let the incoming water have wide swings on temperature. For that and a number of other reasons, I found setting a food grade barrel in the fish room and using it to store water to come to room temp and also to use the barrel as a "stand" for small tanks> Depending on locations in the house, it may make sense to look at having reserve water on hand is good versus having a plumbing bill. I can run the temporary tubing down the hall to other rooms and just being able to drain and change water without considering how to get the water is really a good "peace of mind " thing. Nothing tamps down my worry as much as changing a bunch of water if I see some fish acting weird!


----------



## Rogozhin75 (Aug 15, 2017)

PlantedRich said:


> I am currently in an area where the incoming water lines are buried very shallow as it rarely freezes hard for long enough to bother buried lines. That shallow bury can let the incoming water have wide swings on temperature. For that and a number of other reasons, I found setting a food grade barrel in the fish room and using it to store water to come to room temp and also to use the barrel as a "stand" for small tanks> Depending on locations in the house, it may make sense to look at having reserve water on hand is good versus having a plumbing bill. I can run the temporary tubing down the hall to other rooms and just being able to drain and change water without considering how to get the water is really a good "peace of mind " thing. Nothing tamps down my worry as much as changing a bunch of water if I see some fish acting weird!


That's a great idea, I'm going to order a barrel.


----------

