# Red cherry shrimp dying off



## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

Issue 1: You're using Fluval Shrimp & Plant Stratum and tap water?!??!
Issue 2: You're using crushed coral with Fluval Shrimp & Plant Stratum
Issue 3: Your GH is kind of on the low end
Issue 4: You purchased imported shrimp

Neos don't need a buffering substrate, using tap with a buffering substrate causes unstable water parameters, using crushed coral ads into the unstable water parameters, GH should be 6-8 at least, but recommended 7-8. Imported shrimp often have difficulty adapting to tanks within the USA.


Neos are fine with regular sand or gravel. What water used would depend on what you have to work with, although best chance of success is remineralized RO water. Yes, I know, many many people keep Neos in tap water without issues, they're lucky! Mine die in tap water.... tap water is not the same all over.


Do you know what your source water parameters are like?


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## jabrocious (Mar 30, 2018)

Zoidburg said:


> Issue 1: You're using Fluval Shrimp & Plant Stratum and tap water?!??!
> Issue 2: You're using crushed coral with Fluval Shrimp & Plant Stratum
> Issue 3: Your GH is kind of on the low end
> Issue 4: You purchased imported shrimp
> ...


So short answer is I need RO water? I was planning on taking my tap and tank water to petco and doing a free water test after testing it myself today, Just to insure my numbers are correct. 

I should also remove the coral? Wouldn't the low ph that was basically bellow the level of the test kit kill off my Otto's and the cray? Do I need to get another tank to hold them in and scrap my substrate for just eco complete? I wanted to eventually add a small school fish to make a community tank.


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## block134 (Jan 5, 2017)

When I first started with red cherry shrimp I had most of mine die off as well, they were also from Aquatic Arts. The second time I got them from a different source and about half of them died with drip acclimation. Think I added them to the tank before they were fully acclimated. Now I have 1 adult male and two adult females that have berried three times and the juveniles seem to be surviving so soon I will have even more.

One of the things I have noticed that has helped with my shrimp is stability in the water parameters. Smaller water changes only when needed with RO water that is re-mineralized to match what is in the tank. For the substrate I am using Black Diamond Blasting sand. I was using the cheap colored rocks from petco but haven't really ever liked them. I have also lowered the water temp to something closer to room temp. The other thing that should help is if you can find a breeder near you then you should have better luck because the water parameters should be closer to what you have. Personally I would remove anything from my tank that can alter water parameters since it will just make it easier but I have never used crushed coral or buffering substrate.

I have my shrimp in a tank with a couple of snails but that doesn't mean you cant keep them in a community tank. The only problem is that the shrimp are small and some fish will eat what ever fits in their mouth


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## jaz419 (Jan 21, 2018)

You shouldn't have an issue finding RODI water at your grocery store. I'm in NW Ohio and find it at Kroger for 39 cents per gallon. If it were me, I'd removed the coral then do a large water change every week for a couple weeks with RODI, then assess your KH to determine if you'll need the crushed Coral. 

Also, if you're getting nitrite spikes at all... Then you're not completely done cycling. That could be causing the issue too. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## VioletSS (Mar 31, 2018)

Zoidburg said:


> Issue 1: You're using Fluval Shrimp & Plant Stratum and tap water?!??!
> Issue 2: You're using crushed coral with Fluval Shrimp & Plant Stratum
> Issue 3: Your GH is kind of on the low end
> Issue 4: You purchased imported shrimp
> ...



"Issue 1: You're using Fluval Shrimp & Plant Stratum and tap water?!??!"

Can you explain why you had this reaction to using Fluval Stratum with tap water?


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

jabrocious said:


> So short answer is I need RO water? I was planning on taking my tap and tank water to petco and doing a free water test after testing it myself today, Just to insure my numbers are correct.
> 
> I should also remove the coral? Wouldn't the low ph that was basically bellow the level of the test kit kill off my Otto's and the cray? Do I need to get another tank to hold them in and scrap my substrate for just eco complete? I wanted to eventually add a small school fish to make a community tank.



If you don't want low pH, then switch out the substrate to something that's inert. Eco Complete *does* raise GH, KH and pH in the beginning, but after several water changes (or rinsing it), it should be inert.

If the substrate isn't wasted, then yes, switch to RO water and GH+ minerals and remove the crushed coral. The ottos and crays can do fine in lower pH. Fluval usually doesn't buffer the pH down very low anyway...

The Petco tests are kind of crap, tbh... you should get your own liquid test kit. I know you have the GH and KH one, but do you have the freshwater master test kit as well?





VioletSS said:


> "Issue 1: You're using Fluval Shrimp & Plant Stratum and tap water?!??!"
> 
> Can you explain why you had this reaction to using Fluval Stratum with tap water?


Fluval Shrimp & Plant Stratum is a buffering/active substrate. What this means is that it buffers the pH down below 7, making the water acidic. The soil contains things like humic acid and fulvic acids which help to lower the pH and keep it stable. This is partially done by the removal of KH in the water. The soil absorbs KH.

KH wants to do the opposite of the substrate... it wan'ts to raise the pH of the water. So each time you add KH to the tank, the substrate has to work to remove it. This results in unstable parameters, which can include pH, KH and TDS. Each time you do a water change, you can end up with these unstable water parameters.


And the more KH that is in the water, the faster that substrate will use up it's buffering capacities and become inert. If you want to keep a low pH and stable parameters with active/buffering substrates, then you use RO water and GH minerals only. You would also avoid using crushed coral and *any* rocks in the tank that would be raising KH.


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## jabrocious (Mar 30, 2018)

I have the master kit and all, just wanted to see if they would match my kits results incase my lack of color derivation would result in a misread parameter. Another poster in a separate forum mentioned he though due to my parameters that my tank hand't fully cycled before adding the shrimp... As of today I am three days with no deaths and I found at least one molted shell. Though I agree and better understand the substrate and water are working against one another I may just wait and see. The person also recommended using RO for water changes instead of a huge water change just slowly over time.

Thank you again for the input! Here's hoping the RO water changes won't upset the balance and my tank stays healthy from here on out!



Zoidburg said:


> If you don't want low pH, then switch out the substrate to something that's inert. Eco Complete *does* raise GH, KH and pH in the beginning, but after several water changes (or rinsing it), it should be inert.
> 
> If the substrate isn't wasted, then yes, switch to RO water and GH+ minerals and remove the crushed coral. The ottos and crays can do fine in lower pH. Fluval usually doesn't buffer the pH down very low anyway...
> 
> ...


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## VioletSS (Mar 31, 2018)

Thank you Zoidburg for taking the time to explain that. I appreciate it. : )


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