# Beginner's Guide To Discus



## KyleT

Admin Note: DiscusPaul has very kindly offered this in-depth article for free for our members. It is included here in full as well as a PDF attachment (
View attachment BeginnerDiscus.pdf
). Enjoy!

Greetings to all you discus fans out there,

I'm retired, living in Vancouver, B.C., and have been fish-keeping on and off, both fresh and saltwater, for over 50 years, since I was a kid. At one time, I had about 15 tanks, and bred many varieties of egglayers, Tetras, Barbs, Danios, Angels, Bettas, Gouramis, and others. That was mostly in the late 1950's and 60's when LFS's would only give me .10 cents each for 3 month old fry. My, times have sure changed.

But my life-long love has been discus !

I belong to 5 other aquarist forums, and found over the past year or so, going through many Stickies, threads & posts, that there didn't seem to be any one single place where someone interested in discus could get a reasonably inclusive step-by-step outline as to what needed to be done to properly get started with discus.

So I decided to write a reasonably comprehensive guide myself, to give any discus newcomer the necessary tools to launch him or herself into discus-keeping, in the safest, most successful manner possible.

My guide has already been posted on some forums, notably simplydiscus.com and the U.K. bidka forum (British & International Discus-keepers Assoc.), but it seems that my favorite forum these days is Planted Tank, which I have noted has many member discus-keepers - experienced, just new to the hobby, or wannabes.

Administrator Kyle kindly accepted my offer to have PT post the guide, and I am delighted that it will be available to PT's strong, active, and seriously committed membership !

Best of luck with your entry into the fascinating world of what is, arguably, the most beautiful freshwater aquarium fish.

Please don't hesitate to call on me if I can be of any further assistance to you along the way.

Regards,
Paul

Beginner’s guide to getting started with discus

Written by: Paul Villeneuve 
Edited by: Martha Morris

Photos courtesy of the author,
Martha Morris and
Patricia Husband
February, 2011









*INTRODUCTION*

*Family*: Cichlidae
*Genus*: Symphysodon

1. S. Discus Heckel - 2. S. Aequifasciatus (green discus) - 3. S. Haraldi (blue and brown)

Wild discus inhabit some of the tributaries of the Amazon River in South America. They usually live in large social
groups in shallow river, stream, or creek beds of slow-moving water near the banks where tree roots protrude, providing
cover. Vegetation hanging overhead provides shade from the bright light. The water temperature is generally constant in
the 27 to 29 Celsius ( C ) range (low 80s Fahrenheit (F)} . The pH is acidic, usually in the range of 5.0 to 6.0. The water
is very soft as it contains very small amounts of dissolved minerals. These conditions differ significantly from the
environment usually found in home aquaria but the discus have adapted well. For instance, domestic discus have shown
they are able to thrive in steady but wide-ranging pH levels, up to 8.0. They have also done well under consistently
stronger lighting conditions, and in heavily planted environments. However, all discus remain largely intolerant of poor
water quality, or water temperature below 27 C (81 F).








Figure 1 Nhamunda Red Wild Discus

There was very little known or written about discus until after the middle part of the 20th century, and it wasn’t until
around the 1960s that hobbyists in various parts of the world began breeding wild-caught discus. After that time, a good
deal of information began to emerge about keeping and breeding these marvelous fish. In the 1970s and 80s, there was a
proliferation of breeders who established discus fish farms for local and export sale, mainly in South East Asia and some
parts of Europe, particularly in Germany. By 1990, many new and colorful varieties of this intriguing fish had been
developed.

Discus are one of the most graceful, interesting, and arguably the most beautiful of all freshwater tropical fish. The
fascination of keeping and raising these magnificent fish has taken the aquatics world by storm, and you’re one of the
many wanting to get started with this very satisfying hobby.
This guide is intended to get you started on the right footing – to enable you to raise the “King of the Aquarium” in good
health, with the least amount of start-up snags and problems.

Here’s how to get started!

*AQUARIUM START-UP*

*A. TANK SIZE*
Discus are relatively large fish, growing to 15 centimeters (cm) (six inches) or more at maturity, measured from nose
to tip of tail, and therefore require a good deal of tank space in order to reach their potential and thrive. I recommend 
you start off with the largest tank you can afford. This should be no less than 220 litres (L) (55 gal.), but more preferably 
in the range of 260-300 L (65-75 gal.). If budget is a problem, buy a used tank.

*B. TANK EQUIPMENT*

_1. Heating_
Discus require a temperature range of 28-30 C (82-86 F) in order to thrive. You’ll need to acquire a heater of
sufficient wattage to maintain the desirable temperature for keeping your discus, in accord with the size of your tank.
As a guide, one watt per L should be sufficient– so a 250 watt heater should do nicely in a 220 L tank. As many
heaters only have a maximum temperature setting of 30 C (83 F), it will be very difficult for such a heater to achieve
and constantly maintain water temperature at the maximum setting level. It is best therefore to get a heater with a
maximum setting level of 34 C (93 F). There are a number of reliable makes on the market, so you will have a good
selection to choose from.

_2. Filtration_

There are three types of filtration, i.e. biological, mechanical and chemical.

1 - Biological filtration refers to the breakdown of toxic ammonia into nitrites, and then into nitrates by a colony of
bacteria. These bacteria are often referred to as ‘beneficial’, or ‘nitrifying’ bacteria.
2- Mechanical filtration refers to the process of removing solid waste matter and other particulates from the water
column. Examples include foam pads and flosses.
3- Chemical filtration removes chemical impurities and discolorations and clarifies the water. Carbon is often used
for this purpose.

All three types of filtration can be maintained, or ‘housed’ if you will, in the actual filter container types that you
select for your tank, whether that be a Hang-On-Back (HOB), or canister. A sponge filter will provide for biological
and some mechanical filtration. Your colony of beneficial bacteria will establish itself in or on tank surfaces, but
primarily on and within whatever filter media you elect to use in your filtration container(s).

There are many reliable types of filters to choose from. Many, if not most, discus keepers raise their fish in barebottom
tanks and they usually employ one or more sponge filters, often supplemented by either HOBs or canister
filters, to provide for all their filtration needs. In a planted tank, the preference seems to be to use either HOBs, or
canisters, or both together, and to forego sponge filtration, primarily for aesthetic reasons.

The size of the tank, its purpose, and your preference will determine the needed type, size and capacity of the various
filters which are available to choose from. Capacity is measured by the volume of water turned over each hour. A
complete turnover of at least four times an hour is suggested as being suitable. An example of adequate filter
capacity for a 220 L (55 gal.) tank would be to use a filter rated for tanks up to 300 L (75 gal.), and which has an
average water flow rate of 800 L (200 gal.) or more per hour. This will result in a complete water turnover rate in the
tank of approximately four times an hour.

_3. Test Kits and Other Essentials_

One of the most important items of equipment you will need are test kits to test your water on a regular basis for the
presence of ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates, and to determine the pH, and general and carbonate hardness levels.

While your local fish store (LFS) will very likely provide a water testing service at no cost to you, this can be quite
inconvenient. With your own test kits, you will be able to quickly check your water parameters at any time. This will
allow you to ensure your ongoing tank care is being maintained as it should, and to determine if your water is the
culprit should problems occur.

Once your tank is fully cycled and ready to house fish, the test for both ammonia and nitrites should read “0”, and
nitrates should be less than 20 milligrams per L (mg/L). Mg/L are synonymous with ppm (parts per million). Your
pH test should reflect a steady, stable maintenance of pH anywhere between 6.0 and 8.0. For discus-keeping, your
water’s general hardness (gh) can suitably be anywhere between a low of “0” to a high of 200 mg/L, whereas
carbonate hardness (kh) should generally be between 40 and 100 mg/L.

You will also want to equip yourself with other essential items, such as a water conditioner to remove chlorine,
chloramines, and other undesirable elements from your tap water. A water conditioner should be used at start-up
when cycling your tank, and whenever replacing water during water changes. As an alternative, you may want to
look into and consider acquiring an HMA filter (Heavy Metal Axe), which is used to remove chlorine, chloramines,
and potentially harmful metals from your tap water. Although relatively expensive initially, many hobbyists find that
an HMA filter is more economical in the long run than continually buying liquid de-chlorinators, and produces
better quality, safer water for their discus.

Other needed items are a thermometer, fish net, siphon hose, 20 L (5 gal.) bucket or pail for water changes, sponge,
scrub brush, perhaps a water barrel for ageing water (a food-safe garbage pail will do), extra filter media items such
as filter floss, foam pads, etc. and of course, some fish foods. If you’re doing a planted tank, you’ll need substrate,
plants, driftwood and/or rocks, etc.

Once you have decided on the size of your tank, you’ll need a sturdy stand to carry the weight. A filled tank, with
substrate, driftwood, etc., will weigh around one kilogram (2.2 pounds) per L , so a 220 L (55 gal.) tank will weigh
approximately a quarter of a ton. Buy a ready-made stand that is specifically designed to maintain the weight of the
type and size of tank you are getting or, if you are going a home-made route, get some expert help to ensure it is
properly braced and structured to accommodate the weight.

As for lighting, you won’t need extra strong, bright lighting for discus. Low light will do, perhaps in the range of
around .25 to .5 watts per L . For a planted tank, this should prove adequate for many, if not most, of the hardy, easy
to grow plants that will also tolerate the higher temperature you will be maintaining for your discus.

*C. TANK SET-UP CHOICES*

_1. Bare-Bottom Tank_

This set-up is by far the most preferred approach by both newcomers to the hobby and experienced aquarists alike,
for “growing-out” juvenile discus or for keeping adults. It is generally regarded as the easiest for maintenance
purposes, and the most successful way of keeping discus. It allows you to readily spot any build-up of uneaten food,
fish feces, or other matter, and quickly siphon it off at any time. It makes it easier to undertake more frequent and
larger water changes to promote better and quicker growth of juveniles, to maintain a high level of water quality at
all times, and to more easily clean tank glass, as well as to service or change equipment. A bare bottom tank is easier
to medicate if that should ever prove necessary.








Figure 2 Simplicity of a Bare Bottom Aquarium

_2. Planted/Display Tank_

This second option can be either discus only, or a “community” type tank with some other species of fish. For the
hobbyist, there is arguably nothing more attractive than a well aquascaped discus display tank. It’s a sight to behold
and could suit you well, particularly if you have previous experience keeping tropical fish in a planted tank
environment.

The ratio of fish to size of tank will be reduced in this set-up, given the quantity of water taken up by substrate,
plants and other décor. In this case you’ll want to either increase the size of your tank, or reduce the number of fish
you’ll be keeping. For example, if you were planning to keep eight adults in a 300 L (75 gal.) bare-bottom tank, you
should reduce that number to six in the same-sized planted tank.

Secondly, for your discus’ sake your water temperature will need to be maintained at no less than 28 C (82 F) –
nothing lower will do – and that can pose a challenge for keeping plants, as many varieties do not do well at that
temperature and above. Planted discus tanks entail more work and attention to keeping both elements healthy and
thriving. Your focus will obviously have to be on the discus.

So, if you have no prior experience with a planted aquarium, you would be well-advised to go for a bare-bottom setup,
at least until you gain experience with discus. However, if you do have experience with planted tanks, you
needn’t be fearful of giving it a go if you accept the challenge of the extra attention and diligence needed. It’s certain
you will find it most satisfying and enjoyable.








Figure 3 Example of a planted aquarium

_*I. CYCLING THE AQUARIUM*_

You have made your decision as to the size of tank and type of set-up you want, and you have bought the tank, stand,
lighting, and the other necessary pieces of equipment. The tank has been set up in its permanent location in the room, you
have readied the filter, or filters, for operation, and you have placed the heater into the position you want it. If doing a
planted tank, you have also added your selection of rinsed substrate, driftwood, or any other décor, and put your desired
arrangement of plants in place in the substrate. As a last step before plugging in and starting the filters and the heater,
you have filled the tank, at least to a 90 % level, with conditioned warm tap water of at least 28 C (82 F).

It is now important to ensure the tank is cycled. NEVER, never introduce discus to an uncycled, or cycling tank. It can,
and probably will, kill them. It’s cruel and expensive ! ‘Cycling’ can probably best be described as the growth of colonies
of beneficial types of bacteria, called nitrifying bacteria. They are necessary because they neutralize ammonia, convert it
into nitrites, and finally render the nitrites to produce nitrates. Ammonia and nitrites are toxic to fish, whereas nitrates
are much less toxic, and generally harmless in moderately low concentrations. When you cycle a tank, you are really
cycling the filter materials, or media. While there will be some bacterial presence on the tank glass walls, on driftwood
or other decor, and in and on substrate, a majority of the bacteria will likely be in the filter(s), although a good amount
may be located in the substrate. Colonies of beneficial bacteria can only develop and survive in the presence of ammonia.
In a cycled aquarium, these bacteria will maintain themselves in sufficient quantities to render harmless all the ammonia
that is being produced in the tank by fish, and by decaying plant matter, uneaten decaying fish food, etc.

Fresh water from the tap has very little or no ammonia and no beneficial bacteria. One of the more accepted methods of
starting the cycling process, called the fishless method, is to begin introducing store-bought ammonia (NH3) to a newly
water filled tank. Bottled ammonia is readily available in approximately 10% concentration with only water added.
Read the label. It should contain only ammonia and water - no dyes, fragrances, nor surfactants. It should be colorless
and should NOT produce any foam when shaken. You can buy this ammonia at most discount or chain grocery stores or
hardware stores.

With the filter on and the heater running, add sufficient ammonia to your tank to produce an ammonia test reading of 4
or 5 ppm. Start by adding five ml of ammonia for every 40 L (10 gal.) of water, or 25 ml in a 220 L (55 G) tank. Swirl it
around and let it sit. Please note that ammonia at the dosage level suggested above is the quantity needed when using a 10
% concentration of ammonia in water. If you’re using 100% pure ammonia, the dosage will need to be reduced
accordingly, i.e., by 10 times, - only six to eight drops of ammonia per 40 L (10 gal.).

Test the ammonia level and add more ammonia if necessary, two or three ml at a time, until a test shows a reading of 4 or
5 ppm. Then test daily or every second day until the ammonia level has dropped to around 2 ppm. This indicates that
bacteria have begun to develop and neutralize the ammonia. Test for nitrites at this point; you should get a reading
indicating that nitrites are present. Add more ammonia, five to ten ml at a time, to bring the level back up to 4 or 5 ppm,
in order to maintain sufficient ammonia in your tank for the growing bacterial colony to consume and survive. Keep
testing for ammonia and nitrites daily, or every second day, while at the same time adding ammonia regularly until the
nitrites have spiked up to a high reading. It will take a few more days for a high nitrite level to drop to a low range, as
the type of nitrifying bacteria that renders nitrites into nitrates take somewhat longer to grow and multiply.

During the cycling process, it is suggested you regularly check the pH of your tank water. A low pH of 6.0 to 6.5 during the
cycle will slow down the development of the nitrifying bacteria colony and perhaps even stall it’s growth. If your pH is
maintained above 7.0 during the cycle this should have the effect of hastening the process.

Over time, when your testing regularly reads a ‘0’ level for both ammonia and nitrites anywhere from 12 to 24 hours
after you have added your last dose of ammonia, you will know that the bacteria levels have developed in sufficient
quantity to deal with the ammonia in the tank. At this stage, the nitrates level will be high. Do a large water change of
75% to 90% to reduce the nitrates to 20 ppm or less. Your tank has now fully cycled and is ready for fish. Remember,
you need to keep adding ammonia in small amounts every day or so while your tank is cycling and the bacteria colonies
are growing, so the bacteria will not die off, until you are ready to add fish to the tank.

This process generally takes around six weeks. Bicarbonate of soda can be added to the water to raise the pH above 7.
This ensures a quicker and more successful cycle and reduces the cycle time by one to two weeks.

One final note, if you’ve opted to begin with a planted tank, consider allowing some further time following the cycle to
acclimate and start your plants’ growth before introducing the discus. A total cycling and seasoning period of 45 to 75
days should allow the plants sufficient time to become established.

The entire cycling process can be eliminated if you can buy a cycled sponge from the discus supplier, or add a seasoned,
colonized filter with all of its media intact from an established healthy tank to your new tank. In this case, fish can be
added immediately. If you do so, test your water daily for the first few days to ensure there is no ammonia or nitrites.
This is to confirm that the size of the bacterial colony you have introduced is sufficient to deal with the fish bio-load you
have placed in your tank. If you add cycled media it should come from the fish supplier or from another tank you have,
not another source like a friend or the LFS.

_*II. WATER QUALITY*_

Discus are tougher than a lot of people think and they can be relatively easy to raise and keep healthy if one ‘follows the
rules’. Perhaps the most important of these rules is maintaining water quality at a high level. Discus are more
demanding, or shall we say, more intolerant in this area, than almost all other types of tropical freshwater fish. Here are
the conditions that need to be maintained on a consistent basis.

_A. Conditioning Your Tap Water_

Conditioning means removing, or neutralizing, those elements in your tap water that can be toxic to fish – mainly
chlorine, chloramines, and other harmful elements. There are many effective water conditioners on the market. Follow
the dosage directions on the container to condition tap water for your initial tank set-up and for all the water used for
water changes. Alternatively, use an HMA.

_B. pH of Your Water (Range of Acidity or Alkalinity)_

The vast majority of discus available today are farm-bred and raised, and can readily tolerate, if not thrive in, pH levels
ranging from 5.5 to over 8.0. Many of you will find that the pH of your tap water is in the 6.5 to 7.5 range, which is
perfectly acceptable.

The key to pH for discus is to maintain a relatively steady level, avoiding rapid fluctuations up or down. Even moderate
fluctuations in pH, occurring quickly, can be harmful, if not fatal, to your fish. pH will very likely change somewhat from
tap, or ageing barrel, to tank, between wc’s, and over time, but so long as this is gradual, there is generally no problem.
The danger lies only when a large change in pH takes place over a short period of time. This is why it is recommended
that beginners not attempt to modify or alter pH levels by using chemicals. If the pH of your water is 7.7, then stick with
that. Resist the temptation to try to change it!

The first step is to test the water coming straight out of your tap. Then, fill a 20 L (5 gal.) bucket with tap water. Let the
water sit and ‘age’, aerated, for a 24 hour period and test it again. Tap water often contains a lot of dissolved carbon
dioxide. When water is released, the carbon dioxide dissipates and the pH then rises. If the pH rises by no more than 0.4,
then it should be safe for you to use water directly out of the tap for your water changes, or for topping up evaporated
water if necessary, but as long as that water is conditioned to remove chlorine, etc., and the temperature is within a degree
or two of that in your tank. If the pH rises by more than this, then the water needs to be aged before doing your water
changes. Otherwise, your fish can experience dangerous, or fatal, pH shock. Many aquarists maintain water ageing
barrels of various sizes, usually in the range of 150 to 200 L (40-50 gal.) or more to accommodate their water changes, thus
eliminating large fluctuations in the pH. Ageing barrels are most often simply inexpensive food-safe garbage pails in
which aquarists store, aerate and heat their conditioned water before doing water changes. Ageing also ensures the
conditioner (or dechlorinator) has had ample time to work. The length of time needed to age the water varies, and it
depends on how long it takes to gas off the carbon dioxide. If the pH in the barrel does not rise further after 12 hours, for
example, then the water should be aged 12 or more hours.

_C. Water Changes (WC’s)_

Frequent water changes are of singular importance for maintaining good water quality and chemistry – it’s the key to
thriving, healthy discus. If raising juvies, your ideal routine would be daily wc’s of between at least 25%, to 50% or more.
In a smaller tank, you can use a siphon hose and bucket, but you may want a hose with attached pump for larger tanks to
move the water from the tank to the chosen drain outlet, and from the ageing barrel, if needed, to the tank.

Many discus-keepers do well with wc’s of 50% or more every second or third day, while others keep healthy and happy
discus with large, twice-weekly wc’s, ensuring fecal matter and uneaten food is siphoned off regularly as it accumulates.
The efficacy of your filtration will also play a part in deciding on the frequency and quantity of your wc’s. In a display
tank, your plants will assist filtration to some extent by consuming, or utilizing, some wastes, and will help keep nitrate
levels lower. However, the other side of the equation is that planted tanks are a great deal more difficult to keep clean and
spotless than a bare-bottom. Substrate, in particular, harbors a lot of waste and other undesirable matter that even
regular vacuuming will not fully remove.

_D. General Maintenance (Overall Tank Cleanliness)_

In addition to consistently maintaining good water chemistry via your wc’s, you will need to incorporate some other
maintenance items in your daily, every second day, semi-weekly, or weekly routines. Wipe down the inside walls of your
tank when doing wc’s in order to remove algae and discus’ shedded slime coating, which film onto the glass. If your tank
is planted, you will need to regularly vacuum your substrate. Semi-weekly or weekly might be enough, but some do it
with each wc if not more frequently than that.

If you are using HOB filters, your filter media should be rinsed on a regular basis, no less than weekly, but better still,
semi-weekly. Rinse the filter media in the tank water after it has been pumped out, or in conditioned warm tap water, so
as to avoid destroying any significant amount of beneficial bacteria. If you were to concurrently rinse all, or most, of the
media in untreated tap water, for example, or discard most media items all at once for replacement with new, (such as
very dirty and deteriorating foam pads, sponges, filter floss, etc.) you would effectively be removing or destroying a very
large portion of your biological filtration system (the beneficial bacteria). This could result in dangerous spikes of
ammonia and nitrites. Change old, discard-ready media to new on a rotated basis, one filter at a time, and/or one media
component at a time. The use of pre-filters on your water intakes will improve the efficacy of your filters, whether HOB
or canister.

If using canister filter(s), discus keepers will usually rinse media and clean their filters on a less frequent basis, on average
every second or third month. The use of pre-filters on their intakes, coupled with the size, power and efficiency of these
filters as opposed to HOB’s, will make this more extended cleansing routine adequate.

_*III. PURCHASING FISH*_

_A. Ages, Sizes, and Appearance_
If you’re thinking of growing out juveniles, or ‘juvies’, ideally you’ll want to acquire 8 cm (3”) size specimens which will
likely be about four months old. As a general guide, six to eight or even ten fish of this size will do well in a 220 L (55 gal.)
tank, at least until they approach maturity. At this point, you will do well to reduce the number to six or seven. Your
second option is to go for larger, older specimens, near adult or adult of 10 cm to 18 cm (4”-7”). You might like to see
them develop into at least one mated pairing, for breeding. In this case, you’ll need to limit the number to six or seven in
a 220 L (55 gal.) tank. As a novice to fish-keeping, you should think carefully before buying very small discus less than 5
cm long (2”) (fry). They require more frequent feedings and frequent large water changes, and they have a low tolerance
for poor water quality which generally leads to stunting.

Look for fish that have a round body (not oval or ‘football’-shaped), clear eyes, and a respiration rate with gill cover
movement that is fairly slow and steady. Their fins should normally be outstretched, not clamped, and they should be
eating well. The size of their eyes should appear to be in an attractive proportion to their body size. A stunted fish will
have unusually large eyes compared to the body, which will be somewhat evident.

When viewed head-on, the forehead, or brow should not appear pinched in, nor should the stomach/lower body area
below the head. In a solid colored fish, the coloration should be bright, not extremely pale and washed-out looking. Avoid
any discus that appear dark in color.

They should be active and appear comfortable with their surroundings, not darting about and/or hiding. They should not
shy away from the front of the tank as you view them. Ask your livestock source to feed them and then watch to ensure
they eat. Find out what they have been eating, how frequently, and the temperature and pH of the water they have been
kept in. Learn as much as you can of their background so that you are well-equipped to keep them yourself.








Figure 4 Pair of Adult Blue Diamonds


_B. Sources of Livestock Purchases_

Probably the most critically important element in successful discus-keeping is to buy your fish from a knowledgeable,
experienced, reputable and fully reliable source. This is almost your guarantee of getting great- looking, healthy fish.
There are, generally, three sources for discus:


 Local Breeders: They will usually provide healthy fish, acclimated to local conditions. You will first need to obtain
positive references to fully satisfy yourself that the breeder sells healthy, quality fish. This route does of course
support local breeders, but the fish being sold generally tend to be very young. Reputable breeders understand that
sales are often by word-of-mouth and so they want to maintain a positive reputation.
 Importers: Like the breeders, reputable importers strive to maintain a positive reputation. Again, get references.
This source generally costs more than local breeders, but the variety available is much better and the size bigger.
 LFS: This source is usually expensive. They are unwilling or unable to invest the time and money discus require. It
would probably be non-profitable if they did. The fish are often on a central water system, and so pick up illnesses
from other fish. The quality, even if healthy, tends to be poor. This source is not recommended.

While some LFS sell healthy, quality discus, most do not, so you would be well-advised to buy your fish from an
experienced long-term breeder or importer in or near your area. Many discus keepers acquire their stock from wellknown
sources of high quality discus, and have them air shipped to their location. If and when doing this, it is important
to ask for photos in advance of the fish you will be buying. The delivered product should equate to the photos you were
given. Do your homework here, and seriously consider getting your fish from one of several experienced and reputable
sponsors of the The British and International Discus Keepers Association (BIDKA), the Simply Discus, or other forums.
Check them out and make enquiries of other forum members.

_C. Stocking Ratios_
How many fish should you buy? Discus are social fish and have shown to be most comfortable when kept in a group of
five or more. They are generally peaceful, but being cichlids, they are prone to somewhat aggressive behavior toward
their own kind . They will almost always develop a “pecking order” – quite normal behavior for discus. While this
somewhat “bullying” behavior can be quite stressful to those being picked on, it is rarely physically harmful in a group of
this size. Discus rarely show aggression towards other fish. Keeping fewer fish than suggested above will often result in
one or two being bullied to an undesirable extent by the dominant one as the pecking order is established. So, there is
safety and security in numbers.

The generally accepted ‘rule of thumb’ is to keep no more than one adult fish per 40 L (10 gal.) of water, or five or six
adult fish in a 220 L (55 gal.) tank. If raising juvies, double the number of fish should do well in the same-sized tank until
they grow out to 10 cm (4”) and over. Then you will have to consider downsizing your group of fish, getting a larger tank
for them, or getting another tank and splitting the group.

Overstocking is never a good idea. It can be stressful on the fish, and it ties the hobbyist to his or her tank. One can’t miss
a wc, and one is completely dependent on a never-fail source of electricity.

_D. Potential Tank Mates For Discus_
There are a number of types of fish which are compatible with discus, and which are more or less tolerant of the higher
discus tank temperature. Avoid smaller fish which could become ‘lunch’ for discus, or fast-moving fish such as zebra
danios which can make them nervous. Some fish are “nippers” and are to be avoided, such as tiger barbs. Many fish
cannot tolerate discus temperatures.

Examples of generally good discus tank mates include some species of tetras such as Cardinals, Rummy-noses, Glowlights,
and Lemon tetras. Harlequin or Copper Rasboras and Hatchet fish are acceptable. Bushy-nosed Plecos and
German Blue Rams are also good tankmates. A number of bottom dwellers are good mates as well, such as sterbai,
peppered, bronze, or emerald Corydoras, to name a few. Dwarf or Pearl Gouramis should do fine as well, but not other
strains of Gouramis which may tend to be overly aggressive and stress the discus, or out compete them for food. A
number of discus hobbyists have successfully kept bettas and angelfish with discus.








Figure 5 Tank mates include Corydoras and Cardinal Tetras

_*IV. CARING FOR THE DISCUS*_

_A. Acclimatizing the Fish_

There are two commonly used methods for releasing newly-purchased fish into the home aquaria. One is often referred to
as ‘drop and plop’, where the discus are simply removed from the bag and placed in the tank without any further prep.
The following second method eases the transition.

Once you get your newly-purchased fish home, you should properly acclimatize them to the temperature and pH of your
tank water. This is a fairly simple procedure, taking no more than an hour or so from start to finish. This will limit stress
and shock caused by a large change in temperature or pH.

First, float the bag of fish in your tank for 20 minutes to equalize the bag water temperature to the water in your tank.
Then open the bag and check the pH in both your tank and the fish bag to satisfy yourself that there is no wide variance.
If the pH is approximately similar, the fish can be added without further acclimation.

If however, there is a variance of more than 0.3 or 0.4 in the pH, then begin to add water from your tank into the bag,
slowly and in small increments – 15% or so of the bag’s water volume each time, allowing five to ten minutes between
each addition, until you have approximately doubled the volume of water initially contained in the bag. Finally, do not
pour the water, with fish, directly into your tank, as the bag water will be polluted with fish waste. Gently pour the water
from the bag through a fish net into a bucket. As each fish slides into the net, pause your pouring and place the netted
fish into your tank.

As a slight alternative to this method, some hobbyists place the fish and bag water in a bucket or other container. Then,
using an air supply hose with a gang valve, water is rapidly dripped from the tank into the bucket to at least double the
volume over the course of about an hour. The fish are then netted out and placed in the tank.

_B. Quarantining New Fish_

If you bought your fish from a reliable source, your tank is cycled with no other fish in it, and you have acclimatized your
fish as above, then you may place your new fish directly into the tank.

If you already have fish in your tank, you need to quarantine the new ones. Quarantining means completely isolating the
new fish from all other fish, in a separate tank specifically set up for this purpose, and preferably located in a separate
room. Also, a heater, filter, hoses, bucket, thermometer, etc. should be set aside for use solely in the quarantine tank. Take
care that water on the hands from the quarantine tank does not get into the other tank, and vice versa.

You need to do this as the new fish may be harboring pathogens they are immune to, but the existing fish are not. Also,
the stress of the move may cause problems for the new fish, and you don’t want to transfer this to the existing tank.
Finally, if the existing discus harbor pathogens they are resistant to, but the new fish are not, then one risks the potential
loss of some new fish. Therefore, all new fish, whether purchased from the same source or not, should be quarantined.
A quarantine should be of four to six weeks duration. Then, take one fish from the main tank and one fish from the
quarantine tank, place them into a third tank and quarantine for a further two weeks. If there is only one fish in the
quarantine tank, the fish from the main tank can be added to the quarantine tank. This needs to be done in order to
minimize the impact to only one fish if a problem develops. If problems do arise, either the new fish or the existing fish
need to be treated.

Alternatively you may opt, as many hobbyists do, to use a single quarantine tank rather than two. Add one fish from
your main tank to the new stock of fishes and observe them during the quarantine period. This approach may prove
riskier, in that if your original fish have something they are resistant to, but the new fish are not, then you risk infecting
all of your new fish, rather than only one. If this were to occur during this method of quarantine you would need to treat
all of the fish, new and original. If the previous method had been followed, only the original fish and the two fish in the
third tank would need to be treated.

A tank in the 40 L to 120 L (10 gal. to 30 gal.) range will usually suffice as a suitable quarantine tank, keeping in mind the
number and size of the new fish being quarantined. Remember the ‘size of fish per litre’ rules. Before using it, this tank
should of course be cycled, filtered, and of the same temperature and pH as your main tank. This tank can also later
serve as a hospital tank for medicating sick fish.

_C. Diet and Nutrition_

Your discus need to be fed a varied, healthy diet which provides them with sources of protein, minerals and vitamins
essential to their health and development.

Packaged frozen foods are excellent sources of most of the essential elements. Some examples are blood worms, mysis
shrimp, krill, and brine shrimp, all of which are usually fortified with vitamins and minerals. Discus will usually, readily
take a variety of good quality flake foods and pellets. Many aquarists feed homemade foods to their discus, often using
recipes with beef heart. Some are heavy on protein, while others contain large percentages of vegetable matter. Four
good recipes may be found @ www.buzzle.com/articles/discus-fish-food-recipe.html Google’ing discus fish food recipes
will provide many links.

A general guide is that the younger the fish, the more frequent the feedings should be. A juvenile discus of 6 to 10 cm
(2.5”to 4”) should grow well with four to six feedings daily. Feed only small amounts each time, usually only as much as
your fish can consume in under five minutes. A 10 cm (4”) fish should be fed two to four times a day, and an adult discus,
once or twice daily.








Figure 6 Beautiful Healthy DIscus

_*V. HEALTH OF YOUR DISCUS*_

When quarantine procedures are not followed and cross-contamination occurs, or the fish are experiencing stress, they
can succumb to parasites, bacterial infections or funguses.
Causes of stress are many and varied, but the most common are:

 Poor water quality and conditions
 Poor diet
 Overcrowding
 Bullying

While most, if not all, discus harbor some form of parasites or other pathogens on or within their bodies (just as animals
and humans do), healthy discus’ immune systems are well able to deal with this, keeping matters in check and nontroubling.
When the immune system is weakened and starts to break down, pathogens get the upper hand, causing poor
health.

_A. Recognizing a Problem_

If and when any of your fish ceases acting normally and begins to behave in strange, unusual ways, it’s almost always a
sign that something has begun to go wrong. Examples of strange behavior include isolating itself from the rest of the
group and hiding a good deal of the time. It may refuse to eat, face the rear of the tank, display clamped fins, show a lack
of color, or a very darkened color, or rub itself on plants or driftwood. All of these behaviors are signs of distress in the
fish.

_B. How to Proceed_

First, test your water for ammonia, nitrites, nitrates and pH. If your tests show any unusual abnormality, such as the
presence of ammonia or nitrites or a significant change, up or down, in your normal pH level, immediately do a large
water change. Check the pH of the wc water before you do the change, and then test your tank water again after the wc
to see what changes have taken place in either ammonia, nitrite, nitrate or pH levels.

There is no need to panic. Stay calm, observe the characteristics of your tank and all your fishes’ behavior, and begin
seeking the help of other forum members by posting a thread, detailing all of your tank conditions. Explain the problem,
outline the symptoms, which meds you have already tried and the results, and state the tank size, age, number and size of
fish, your wc regime, whether bare-bottom or other, temperature, pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate readings, and anything
new you have recently added to your tank.

You will get help from experienced discus keepers on the Simply Discus and BIDKA forums who will advise you on how
to proceed.

Forum links to Disease Questionnaire
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?38545-Disease-Questionnaire-please-complete
http://forum.bidka.org/showthread.php?t=2196

_*CONCLUSION*_

This guide should have supplied you with all of the step-by-step instructions necessary to properly launch you into
successful discus keeping. The sections on cycling the tank, water conditioning, water changes, acclimatizing and
quarantining, along with sources of your livestock purchases, are particularly important. You would do well to review
them carefully, and ensure you have a good understanding of what you will need to do. If you have questions regarding
any matters related in this guide, you should of course not be shy about asking other fish forum members. The “search”
button can be very useful in finding information.

It is sincerely hoped that after reading this, you will have cemented your decision to move ahead with plans to keep
discus. If you make an honest effort to adhere to the principles set out in this guide, it is almost certain you will find that
the patience and dedication involved in discus-keeping will make for an extremely interesting and rewarding experience.
You will soon see for yourself that discus are not only beautiful, but have the unique personalities to match!
Have fun with the hobby!








Figure 7 Beautiful Show Aquarium.

*BIBLIOGRAPHY*

*Website Links:*
http://www.aquariumhobbyist.com/discus/beginner/index.html
http://www.aquariumhobbyist.com/discus/graphics/intro.html
http://www.aquariumhobbyist.com/discus/links/discuslinks.html
http://www.ctdiscus.com/A_Basic_Guide_to_Discus.html


*Books:*

Au, Dick - Trophy Discus (Cichlid Press 2007)
Au, Dick - Back to Nature Guide to Discus (Aqualog Verlag GmbH)
Soh, Andrew - Discus: The Naked Truth (Andrew Soh Pub., 2005)
Soh, Andrew – Discus: Problems and Solutions (Andrew Soh Pub., 2009)
Shulze, Eberhard – Discus Fish: The King of All Aquarium Fish (Discus Limited, 1988)

*Additional Credit – Honorable Mention:*
To Keith Perkins, for assistance and improvements to final text.


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## discuspaul

Just wanted to emphasize to all of you who have viewed, or will be viewing, my guide that I would be very happy to help you out in any way I can, if you should decide to try your luck keeping and raising discus, or if you have already begun and are unsure that you're doing all the right things to keep them happy and healthy.

Please don't hesitate to PM me at any time if you have any questions at all.
Regards,
Paul


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## wkndracer

Reads as though there is a vast amount of experience behind the information contained in this guide. 
The quarantine section is one of the best I've read.

Would like to suggest that the section; Acclimatizing the Fish would be better served by noting that GH and KH variations between source and tank water would better serve as an indication of matched water parameters. Even TDS checked via a meter. With the noted range variance of 0.3 or 0.4 in the pH being very narrow it very easily could be caused by O2/CO2 level differences between bagged water and tank water. This O2/CO2/pH relationship is mentioned in the water quality section (B. pH of Your Water (Range of Acidity or Alkalinity)). With the large amount of information included a better connection to this might benefit many. 

As much as a full point swing in pH is a normal daily occurrence in a lightly buffered planted aquarium, even a medium light non injected system.


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## discuspaul

Your point is well taken, and I don't disagree.
When writing the acclimation section however, I kept 2 things prominently in mind - re: my audience:
1) The guide is a primer, intended not only for the beginner to discus-keeping, but to a novice aquarist as well, and therefore wished to keep it as simple, understandable, non-complicated and less intimidating as possible.
2) To my knowledge, the experience of many long-term discus-keepers over the years has been that discus (certainly domestic-bred discus if not wilds) have not generally been negatively affected by pH ranging from 5.5 to 8.0, and whether or not the water had varying degrees of hardness or softness in those pH ranges, i.e. whether the TDS content was nil or near nil, or whether it was quite high - so long as those conditions maintained themselves on a relatively stable basis.
The main point I wished to make in this case is that a variance in pH, albeit even relatively small, presented a risk if the change ocurred instantaneously, e.g. by dropping new fish with 7.5 pH bag water, directly into a tank with water pH of 6.5.
Hope that explains the reasoning behind not extending that section any further.


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## wkndracer

Thanks for the reply. The guide included an extremely narrow range in the acclimation section as pointed out and one that simply by the bag containing fish for say no more than 30 minutes to an hour sealed during transport would be tainted by CO2 build up. For the novice the guide would lead them to believe based on pH alone that the osmotic pressure was the same with reality being vastly different. The parameters could be (and I would expect them to be) vastly different between the transport water and the tank parameters with a matching pH reading. That information is indeed included in your guide already albeit in separate sections and worded differently. Simply felt the correlation could be linked with the addition of very little verbiage to provide a better understanding for all. 

People tend to follow thoughts as birds follow bread crumbs (I do). The better the connection, the better the understanding. Sadly I view shipping water and water from most outside source's as one step above sewage so with new fish it's handling is of primary concern.

Reading the full text lead me to believe comments and or suggestions might be welcome. Obviously effort was involved in developing the format and credit given to many resources. Interesting read.


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## ibmikmaq

Fantastic read thanks so much for sharing guide! kudo's! Very informative!


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## discuspaul

Many thanks. Be sure to let me know if I can help out any further.
Best of luck,
Paul


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## SlammedDC2

Awesome thread, I am currently looking to house 5-7 checkerboards in my 125g amazon bio.


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## discuspaul

SlammedDC2 said:


> Awesome thread, I am currently looking to house 5-7 checkerboards in my 125g amazon bio.


Thank you too.
Good luck with your checkerboards - you know where you can turn if you need any help !


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## 10gallonplanted

Well made, maybe one day I will keep these amazing fish but for now a 40B is big for me. Great, great job on the type out.


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## SlammedDC2

discuspaul said:


> Thank you too.
> Good luck with your checkerboards - you know where you can turn if you need any help !


 Oh you are definately on my radar if I ever have any questions. Thanks for the article and offering of help.


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## smiller

Wow. Very impressive write-up, Paul. That gives me plenty to chew on for a while. After some more study I may have some questions for you. Thanks for your hard work.


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## discuspaul

smiller said:


> Wow. Very impressive write-up, Paul. That gives me plenty to chew on for a while. After some more study I may have some questions for you. Thanks for your hard work.


Thanks smiller, appreciated.

I went into some fairly heavy detail in a couple of the sections, to try & make things as clear as possible for the novice aquarist, and I hoped it would not be too intimidating.

I'd like to iterate though, that discus are much hardier fish than most people think - the most important element for success though, is to make sure you get good quality, healthy stock from a known reputable breeder/importer source. To me, that's as much as 50% of the way toward being successful with discus - I can't emphasize that enough.


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## mountaindew

Well done.
Reads well with good information.
md


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## Lovin Fish

Thank you so much for taking the time to share your expertise with all of us! I love Discus, but I am defientely not ready. I'm keeping Glass catfish (which I love) for now. But plan to move to discus in a few years after obtaining some experience with fish keeping! Your info was so thorough...it almost made me tempted to go Discus sooner than I planned. Then when I was done reading everthing reality hit me again. 
Thanks again for sharing!!


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## nvladik

Great read!!!


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## lady polyester

Hi Kyle.

That was the most informative read on Discus I have seen.
I'm part of the angelfish forum and someone posted your link.

I have a 4 foot community tank and I have 1 blue blushing and 2 6 month old zebra ( which I bred and raised) angelfish, two rainbows, two plecos, 1 catfish(bottom feeder), german blue ram and a few cardinals.
I have read many articles and pro'and con's in relation to discus and angelfish in the same tank.
I have recently been given an opportunity to purchase a 6 month old blue discus which has already been in a community of angelfish.
The lady I'm purchasing the discus from has a ph range of 6.6, my tank is 6.8.
My tank contains a lot of tannins and is well planted with open area's as well. i have also raised my tank temperature to 28deg. 
If the water conditions are very close to my conditions is it ok to do the bag process or to be sure quarantine separately?

Being first discus owner, I am excited and yet nervous. lol.

To have the opportunity to speak to someone with so much experience as yourself may help reassure myself with the best advice.

Cheers.


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## discuspaul

Hi Lady,
I'm Paul, who wrote that discus starter guide. Kyle is the administrator of this forum who kindly agreed to Sticky my article.

As for your question, I have some good news and some not so good.
Firstly, your tank does not appear to be heavily stocked, so your numbers may be ok, but it would be helpful to know how many gallons it actually is, and the dimensions.

You also seem to have some fish-keeping experience, so that's a good start.
Tannins are fine for keeping discus, your water conditions are also good, but your temp may still be just a touch low - you might want to hike it up another notch to 29 C if you're going to keep discus.
Your other fish are good tankmates for discus.

The fact that the discus which is being offered to you has previously been kept with Angels is a good sign, but you should still do a proper QT.

The only pertinent 'negative' in this picture is that just a single discus could turn him/her into a pretty lonely specimen - however, having said that, keeping 2,3, or 4 in number is even worse, due to likely pecking order/aggression problems.

However, not to discourage you - if you want to give it a go with just one discus,
do it - many people have - just so long as you're aware it may not be the happiest individual around your tank .
It will certainly give you some experience keeping them, which will help for a later time when you might wish to have 5, 6, or more (which are good numbers for socializing reasons) of these gorgeous fish.
Be very happy to help you out further in any way I can - so don't hesitate to PM me anytime.
Hope this helps with your decision.
Best of luck to you,
Paul


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## lady polyester

Hi Paul,

Thank you for your reply.
I have a 58 gallon tank.
The lady I'm purchasing the discus from has always been on it's own, though seems to have a tank mate which is a black angel to which we are also taking.
Nephra my blue blushing she is very docile and is about 1 year old and accepting of new fish in the tank. I am hoping she takes to the other angel and discus well though we shall see. trial and error.
In time I may purchase more discus. I have a soft spot for taking fish that people no longer want, especially in this case a beautiful discus and angel. I will try my best to offer it a good home/environment.

Thank you for your advice and I have been raising the temp in my tank gradually. I will be picking the discus up at the end of the week.

I will message if I have any concerns and thank you again.

Cheers.
Laura.


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## Psionic

Right now I have 7 juvies (~2 inches) in a 25 gallon tank. At what size do I move them into their larger home? Even if some are larger than others, do I still move them all at once? 

Is there such a thing as changing the water too much? My little guys (and gals?) always seem to be hungry lol. I feed them about 5-6 times a day. I siphon out the leftover food about 3-4 times a day. While I'm at it though, I tank out about 2-3 gallons for a wc. I also do a 50% weekly wc. Too much?


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## discuspaul

Psionic said:


> Right now I have 7 juvies (~2 inches) in a 25 gallon tank. At what size do I move them into their larger home? Even if some are larger than others, do I still move them all at once?
> 
> Is there such a thing as changing the water too much? My little guys (and gals?) always seem to be hungry lol. I feed them about 5-6 times a day. I siphon out the leftover food about 3-4 times a day. While I'm at it though, I tank out about 2-3 gallons for a wc. I also do a 50% weekly wc. Too much?


25 gals is a pretty small tank for discus, but it should do ok for you until your juvies reach about 3" - it won't be long - then you'll need at least a 55 or 60 gal.
No, it doesn't matter if they're of different sizes when you re-home them - transfer them all at once.
And no, you can't really do too many wcs. For little guys like that it should be daily, and if you're removing 2-3 gallons 3 or 4 X a day while vacuuuming, that should be good.


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## Psionic

They're going to go into a 100 gallon when they're ready. I just didn't know when that would be lol. So when the largest or smallest reaches 3" should I move them? There is a little less than an inch between the largest and smallest right now.


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## discuspaul

I would suggest you move them when the smallest one gets to be near 3". That would likely be in about 6 to 8 weeks, assuming you're doing large, daily wcs, and feeding well about a half dozen X a day.


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## pandacory

*tank options*

Hi,

Thanks for all of the effort that went into providing us with this info.

I have been admiring discus for some time and am writing a budget for my next tank purchase and had some questions on what you would recommend for tank dimensions.

In your writing you mentioned a 55 gallon, 48x12x21 standard tank as a good starting point to keep the minimum 5 or 6 to a group. Unfortunately, I am a renter and finding 4 feet of open wall space can be difficult to say the least. I am comfortable with the volume requirements, but was hoping to go with a tank in a 3 foot length.

Do discus need more run room than that? What height tank would they feel comfortable in?

The options I am considering are as follows:
36x18x18 
36x18x24
30x30x18

The build is still 9-12 months away, but am considering my goals and budget to get there. Ideally I would like to keep 6 discus, a pair of blue rams, 5 or 6 cories or Kuhli loaches, and a group of cardinal tetras and possibly a few otos and amanos in a high tech moderate light well planted tank. Any option will be outfitted with filtration rated to handle 2x the volume, and am considering a sump for easy water changes. If these options are not sufficient to provide a good life for them then I will wait until I can find more space. 

Also, what kind of other support equipment is necessary to maintain the group? I.e. is a 29g enough space to quarantine for 3weeks during introduction, any possible moves, or re-scapes?

Thanks in advance for your help.


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## discuspaul

Of your 3 tank options, I'd suggest the 36X18X24 would be the best route to go.
Discus would likely be more comfortable with that greater height and width.

That's still a relatively small tank for 5 or 6 discus, along with the numbers of dither fish you're planning to keep, particularly as you intend to fairly heavily plant it.

My advice would be to significantly reduce the numbers of discus tank-mates, as well as limiting your plantings to allow more swimming space for the discus, and make cleaning-up (wcs, etc) a lot easier, not to mention the better water conditions that lesser plantings would allow you to produce & maintain.

The sump would help to some extent, but I would still suggest, for starters anyway until you gain experience keeping discus, you limit the dithers to the 5 or 6 Cories, and a small school of Cardinals, say 10 to 12. 
Forget the Rams & Amanos for now, as well as the Otos for sure, as the latter can occasionally take a liking to discus' slime coats as part of their diet.

The best way to approach caring for discus for the first time, is to keep it as simple as you can, take things slowly a step at a time, feed well and clean up well, i.e. large, frequent wcs, tank wipe-downs, vacumming, and attention to filter media cleansing and maintenance.
Also, ime 50% of overcoming challenges to successfully keeping discus is to make sure you get good quality, healthy stock from a well known, experienced, and fully reliable source, a breeder or importer, not a LFS.

After your tank is set up & properly cycled, introduce the discus first, then the dithers a few weeks later. At that point, your 29 gal. QT tank will be adequate to do the necessary
observational QT of any newcomers you plan to add to your initial discus group.

Hope this helps with your decision-making and don't hesitate to call on me any time you're ready to move forward with your project.
Best of luck,
Paul


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## discuspaul

P.S. for PandaCory:
BTW, I neglected to mention that when you get your discus, go with fish no less than 3" in size, preferably larger, for your best chances of success.
And, FWIW, to give you some food for thought, here's a peek at my tank -
It's an Osaka 260 - just over 70 gals - 42X18X24 - low-tech medium planted, on which I run 2 AC 110 HOB's - with a routine of 3X a week 60% wcs, and a significant vacuuming & tank cleansing regimen with each wc.
The discus were then 3" to 4" juvies, several of which I have since sold as they grew, and my number in the tank is now down to 7.
http://s1105.photobucket.com/albums/h357/discuspaul/Sept2011


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## oscarsx

good stuff discuspaul you defintly know your stuff... I've read a lot of things by you and it has helped me on my journey in raising discus.



Sent from my DROID X2


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## discuspaul

Thanks Oscar - appreciated. I really enjoy helping newcomers to discus avoid the many pitfalls than can develop when first keeping these marvelous fish.

All the best to you !


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## oscarsx

its okay .. everything I should know I already know. I have real life friends that breed discus for a living... helps me with everything I need.. and we have you to help us out 

Sent from my DROID X2


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## pandacory

Thanks for the response.

Even if the tank is a possibility, I think I need to more closely consider if I want to be married to its upkeep with the demanding maintenance schedule.

My mind is not made up yet, because I have a habit of finding a way of getting the things I want and somehow making it work. 

Out of curiousity, what variety is the blue fish in the 6th picture of your album?


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## discuspaul

It's an Eruption Leopard. Not a particularly well-colored specimen at that. I thought it would turn out much better. Many 'eruption' varieties that I have seen, like the Penang Eruption, are much more strikingly colored than that one.

Yes, hearing about the more demanding maintenance routine can be daunting, but it's not nearly as bad as it sounds at first. For example, I do 2 to 3 large wcs a week, and maintain a quite meticulous tank & filter cleansing regimen, plant trimming, etc., and I doubt if I spend more than 3 hours a week at it, at most.
In a tank with less than heavy plantings and decor, and with sub-adult or adult discus, many discus-keepers quite successfully get by on a once weekly wc.
If you really like discus, don't be detered from keeping them - it is very satisfying & rewarding.


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## pandacory

I think the thing that really got me is that in all of the fish stores I've been to, there are many fish that will learn to recognize you as a bringer of food, but, at least to me, only rainbows, oscars and discus seem to see you.

I have rainbows, and enjoy keeping them, but their frenetic energy does not create a very peaceful display. Oscars are not plant or people friendly, I've known some that try to splash you! Discus are the most colorful and peaceful of the "aware but not terrified" fishes I've seen.


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## TerriM

*Very helpful!*

Paul, this is one of the most helpful posts I've seen. I have always been enchanted by the discus and plan on setting up a tank for them in the near future. I feel this is not something you jump into lightly, especially with cichlids!

A question though, I've often looked at online sellers as we have absolutely no LFS here that will help bring fish in. Our aquarium clubs are all three hours or more away. That being said, are you familiar enough with some of the online sellers to know which are "reputable" ones? Their prices seem so high, some over $100 per fish, that by the time you add in shipping there is a substantial investment. Do you have a list somewhere of reputable online discus breeders?

Thank you for the time, help and guidance.
Terri


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## discuspaul

Thanks Terri - Glad you got some useful info out of it.
Many hundreds of discus-keepers throughout the U.S. buy from, and are very happy with, the high quality, healthy discus they get air-shipped in from either of Kenny's Discus in Daly City, Ca. or Hans' Discus in Baltimore, Maryland (which I'm quite sure is his location.)
There are others as well - both of these and several other reputable suppliers are sponsors on the simplydiscus.com forum. You can check them out there, and have a look at their websites, galleries, stock & price lists. You can easily access them by forum PM, email or phone, and they will surely be very helpful.
Usually, good-sized discus, e.g. in the 3" to 4" range can be had from them for prices in the $35. to say, $75. range, depending on the size and strain of fish.
Shipping costs are generally reasonable, and the arrival of specimens in good condition is pretty much guaranteed.
Yes, discus are a significant investment, but most aquarists feel it is well warranted, to obtain premium healthy fish that you can enjoy for a long time !
Best of luck to you and hope this helps.


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## oscarsx

hey Paul.. I'm growing out ten juvs ATM in the range of 2 to 3 inches. I wanted to get five more from my local breeder in the range of 1.5 - 2 I know mixing discus in different sizes can be an issue. what if I added a tank divider.. what do you think 

Sent from my DROID X2


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## discuspaul

Hi Oscar.
My experiences with keeping different-sized smaller youngsters together in a grow-out set-up has generally been quite satisfactory - I believe the chances of any significant problem developing are very low, so - bottom line is a divider shouldn't be necessary.


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## oscarsx

hey Paul
thanks a lot. people say there is aggression issues causing the smaller fish to not eat... I guess I will have to try this myself and see what happens.

Sent from my DROID X2


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## discuspaul

Generally, discuskeepers growing out smaller discus will have a fairly large number in the same tank together, at times of varying sizes. With the number you're planning to keep, it is unlikely you will have aggression issues that are of any serious nature, i.e. not harmful or overly stressful enough to cause cessation of eating.


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## Psionic

Well I have my discus in their new larger home. Since they're juvies and I'm feeding them half a dozen times a day and cleaning up after each time, I kept the tank mostly bb for easy cleanup. I put plants in the tank, but they're weighted down so they can be moved around easily during siphons and wipe downs. 

I have a piece of mopani I can put in there. They swim slowly, but I just feel like they'd bump into it or scrape against it. Ok to add it or no? 


-Val


----------



## discuspaul

Your piece of mopani should be just fine in your tank, assuming it's not overwhelmingly large for the size of your tank. I presume it's a reasonable size.
Post a pic if you wish, after you get it in there, Val. The discus will avoid scraping against it.


----------



## Psionic

It has some crypts and java fern in it that will hopefully fill out. They like swimming around it, but I don't want them to smash into it when they get scared. The second pic is both pieces of wood I have in there. It's pretty stark in there still. The HOB is on the right and on the left will hopefully be shaded with red root floaters.


-Val


----------



## discuspaul

Should be no problem, Val - thanks for the pic.
Numerous discus-keepers use driftwood in their tanks, some quite a lot of wood, and generally speaking it doesn't normally create any problems. 
Accidents occasionally do happen of course, though, particularly if there are some sharp, pointy ends on the wood. It's a chance many of us take.


----------



## oscarsx

Paul, at what size/age would it be okay to start adding discus to a planted tank? I'm growing mine out atm and wanted to know the right size to do the swap without damaging their growth/health..

planted tank will most likely be 50% once weekly... EI dosing and all that good stuff.


----------



## discuspaul

Based on what you're planning to do, Oscar (i.e. 50% wcs once weekly in your planted tank.... which could be a-ok), I'd suggest you not place your discus into the planted environment until they reach at least 4" or more - preferably 4.5". That way, you're dealing with sub-adults which should continue to grow, albeit to a lesser extent and take longer to size up, but at least you avoid the risk of them resulting in becoming significantly stunted discus.


----------



## oscarsx

my smallest one ATM is 3 inches FL and biggest is 4 FL I think ill defintly wait until they reach 4.5 ... thanks again paul!

Sent from my DROID X2


----------



## Warlock

F.l.!?


----------



## discuspaul

What's your question, Skip, about F1 ?


----------



## Warlock

discuspaul said:


> What's your question, Skip, about F1 ?


he wrote F.L. 

my computer kept putting F.l. :biggrin:


----------



## discuspaul

Didn't notice that before, Skip - yes he did write F.L. Sorry.
- Did you mean F 1, Oscar ?


----------



## oscarsx

no sir FL for full length hehe 

Sent from my DROID X2


----------



## Warlock

oscarsx said:


> no sir FL for full length hehe



aahhh.. i see.. 

i assume your F.L. is same as TOTAL LENGTH (TL).. Head to END of Tail.. 
which is not to be confused with STANDARD LENGTH (SL) Head to Base of Tail


----------



## oscarsx

speaking of which.. what method do you guys use to measure your fish tl or sl

Sent from my DROID X2


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## Warlock

oscarsx said:


> speaking of which.. what method do you guys use to measure your fish tl or sl


see.. thats what rubs me the wrong way!! 

people but down that have a 3" fish.. 

but don't say SL or TL.. if i am thinking its 3" SL and they send me 3" TL.. i will be alittle P'O'd.. so its ALWAYS best to ask how they measure, who ever is selling or from who you are buying..


----------



## DerekFF

Here you are again causing trouble skip!!! 

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


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## Warlock

DerekFF said:


> Here you are again causing trouble skip!!!


:hihi:

no.. 

but i am shopping for shrimp


----------



## Psionic

My hogs eating their second dinner. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB5pfJ2KIGA


-Val


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## oscarsx

what strain are those?

Sent from my DROID X2


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## Psionic

Ring leopards I believe. They're still just babies though. No idea how colorful they'll be. The smallest one just recently started to get some shimmer. The largest is now getting red tips. They've all got blue on their fins, back, and face. 


-Val


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## discuspaul

Psionic said:


> My hogs eating their second dinner.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB5pfJ2KIGA
> 
> 
> -Val


They may be just little guys, but they're good-looking, active, seemingly very healthy little guys, with an appetite ! Good work, Val.
Strain ? Hard to say - tell us what you have there, Val.

Oops, I see your previous post crossed with mine - Ring Leopards, huh ?


----------



## Psionic

Yuppers. Unless you mean those big ol honkin hatchetfish. They are just as big of pigs. 

They are doing this new vertical dance thing. 2 or 3 will huddle up with their heads next to each other and shake, almost like a seizure and rub their body against one another. Then one goes away, another steps in and they'll sometimes swim backwards to harass one of the fish like that. Then when they see all the others swam away, he rushes over to join them and body shakes right in the middle of them. 

Care to give a gander on what that is? It's the same 3 fish every single time. Sometimes they'll start a chain reaction and any of the ones they're near to will turn dark and start shaking and rubbing also. 

And when food is offered? They stop fighting and haul ass to get it. 


-Val


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## Psionic

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfJH5E2RMhw

I recorded them after their first breakfast. This is the funky thing they've been doing now. The largest and smallest 2 just ignore them. It's the same middle three. It's like they're flexing their muscles or something. As soon as they notice the others leaving (in this case to get food), they lighten up, follow and head for food also. So yea, that's what they do. If a fish ignores them, they swim for another for an audience. 

I had thought of parasites and such. But they have no white poo, they're eating, no bruises or infected looking spots either. I had thought of adding some salt to the water or even medicating, but I'd rather not yet since they aren't showing any "signs" of illness other than being rather weird. 

I tried to look stuff up online, but there wasn't much info on them vibrating rapidly like that and head butting. What I did find, was all about them trying to get a mate. Aren't mine too young to start looking for another to pair with? If so, I have absolutely no clue on wtf they're doing.


-Val


----------



## Warlock

that is weird.. 

just keep up with daily water changes and continue to observe..

i had one that did the opposite.. tail stand.. 

but it took weeks and then finally it was just over one day...


----------



## Psionic

Warlock said:


> that is weird..
> 
> just keep up with daily water changes and continue to observe..
> 
> i had one that did the opposite.. tail stand..
> 
> but it took weeks and then finally it was just over one day...


Was it like that all the time or when it chose to?


----------



## Budget aquarist

This REALLY helped me.. i really appreciate it!


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## Psionic

My little guys seem to have grown more blue during the day. I noticed it tonight while feeding them. Hence the food at the bottom. Just ignore that lol.










-Val


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## discuspaul

As a follow-up to my discus guide, and to give any of you who are interested and are seriously thinking of setting up a discus tank, i felt it would be worthwhile to advise you of some of the best supply sources for getting good quality discus in n.a.

And as i've said several times before, ensuring you get the best quality, healthy, well-shaped discus, accounts for the lion's share of being successful keeping discus.

That means avoiding any questionable sources, and getting your discus only from well-known, experienced, reputable and fully reliable retail suppliers of good quality discus.

It's a fact that the vast majority of knowledgeable discus-keepers in the u.s. and canada buy their stock from such retail sources, usually having them air-shipped to their locations, across the country if need be.

The following is just a partial list of well-known, fully reputable commercial/wholesale discus breeders and exporters, from whom many n.a. retailers get their stock. This list is far from representative of anywhere near the gamut of quality discus breeders around the world, but will give you a grounding on, arguably, some of the better name sources.

Within each list i have also named a couple of well-known reputable importers and retailers of these quality farm-bred fish, from whom you may order, air-shipped to wherever you reside. Most of these retailers are sponsors on simplydiscus.com forum, and i believe they all have websites where you can view their gallery of stock, get prices, and any other info you may need. You may order from them online, by email, phone, or in person if you are near their location.

A small disclaimer - i make no guarantees as to the accuracy or completeness of this info, which is to the best of my knowledge. As you know, this type of info is subject to change over time, and my sources may not have been updated recently.

- discus forrest - malaysia

forrest has gained an excellent reputation for being one of the top breeder/exporters of quality discus. Among others, in the u.s., kenny's discus - kenny cheung - of daly city, ca., and in canada, canadian aqua farm - rick grange- of vancouver, b.c., carry forrest discus. These two retail dealers are high on the list of premier discus suppliers in their respective countries.



- jeffrey yang discus - malaysia

yang produces high quality discus, and importing retailers of these fish include central ohio discus - mike beals - of galena, ohio, and upper canada discus - bob garside - of barrie, ont., canada.

- wayne ng discus - hong kong

ng's fine discus are known pretty much around the world, and his discus importers include elite aquaria - dan espinosa - of weston, fla., and upper canada discus in barrie, ont.

- tony tan discus - malaysia

also a producer of quality discus, tan's discus are imported by kingdom come discus in kentucky, u.s.a.

- stendker discus - germany

german breeders have been exporting high quality discus for many years, and stendker is renowned as one of the best. The premier u.s. Importer of these fish is the very well-known and reputable hans' discus of baltimore, maryland. In canada, aquarium du nord, montreal, p.q. imports stendker fish.

- alex piwowarski discus - germany

also regarded as a premier german breeder/exporter, his discus are imported by, among others, central ohio discus in the u.s., and discus house, p.q., in canada.

- jack wattley discus - usa

i would be remiss if i did not mention that jack wattley, of miami, fla. Has been breeding and retailing fine quality discus for many years, and his fish are sought by discus enthusiasts across america and elsewhere.


Keep in mind there are many other good quality discus breeders and exporters in the world, and some other countries which are producing fine discus include singapore, taiwan, vietnam, and thailand.

The retailers named above are well-known to have gained a solid reputation for supplying quality stock, they follow impeccable shipping practices, all but guarantee 100% live delivery of their livestock, and their prices are reasonable too !

All the best of luck to you in your discus-keeping endeavors. Contact me if i can provide any further information.


----------



## Psionic

I finally whipped out my camera and snapped a pic of one of the big munchkins.








edit: I just did their nightly water change, so ignore all the bubbles and water stains >.<


----------



## 4kay2day

Wow, You have given me so much information to digest. I am setting up a 90gallon 48x18x24 reef tank. (I'm converting from salt to fresh). I have a 9.5 mg pump, 20 gallon refugium, sock, etc. Lights are going to be an issue. I have listed the halides for sale and will puchase something better suited for this direction. 
I was planning on a planted tank mixed communtiy. After seeing some discus I'm leaning toward doing a Discus tank. However I've already purchased the substrate Flourite Black Sand on line so returning it might not be cost effective. I don't like a bare bottom tank.
The LFS Store that does fresh in my area is hours drive. I spoke at length to the owner and she claims she only changes the water once a month. She keeps the tank at 84 degrees and the PH at 5.5. which with those parameters would greatly limit other species of fish in the tank. 
I kept a great Mixed Reef tank. Diligent with daily testing, water changes every 2 weeks and put in about 1 to 2 hours every day to keep it up. I feel I can do discus but need some serious input with what I have the chances of having a tank that is beautiful and not the labor intensive heart breaking back breaking the Mixed Reef tank was. I had a hitchhiker that wound up killing most of my fish and acropora just was not my friend. I did keep a clean tank. Can you give me your advise on what light system to look at, and if my pump is the right size for a Discus tank, as well your thought on Flourite Black Sand? Whew.....thanks for any insight.


----------



## discuspaul

4kay2day said:


> Wow, You have given me so much information to digest. I am setting up a 90gallon 48x18x24 reef tank. (I'm converting from salt to fresh). I have a 9.5 mg pump, 20 gallon refugium, sock, etc. Lights are going to be an issue. I have listed the halides for sale and will puchase something better suited for this direction.
> I was planning on a planted tank mixed communtiy. After seeing some discus I'm leaning toward doing a Discus tank. However I've already purchased the substrate Flourite Black Sand on line so returning it might not be cost effective. I don't like a bare bottom tank.
> The LFS Store that does fresh in my area is hours drive. I spoke at length to the owner and she claims she only changes the water once a month. She keeps the tank at 84 degrees and the PH at 5.5. which with those parameters would greatly limit other species of fish in the tank.
> I kept a great Mixed Reef tank. Diligent with daily testing, water changes every 2 weeks and put in about 1 to 2 hours every day to keep it up. I feel I can do discus but need some serious input with what I have the chances of having a tank that is beautiful and not the labor intensive heart breaking back breaking the Mixed Reef tank was. I had a hitchhiker that wound up killing most of my fish and acropora just was not my friend. I did keep a clean tank. Can you give me your advise on what light system to look at, and if my pump is the right size for a Discus tank, as well your thought on Flourite Black Sand? Whew.....thanks for any insight.


 
I'll PM you shortly with the answers to your questions.


----------



## Psionic

Paul is the man 
I know a few things, like that if you buy them adult size, you can put them in a planted tank. Dark substrate causes the fish to "pepper" aka get speckled and darker colored. Some people like it. For their natural color, most people go with white. Water changes are best done at least once a week. The better you can make the tank clean, the better they'll be. 

On lights, they don't like things too bright. I have some wisteria and spangles as floaters. But planted tanks take a bit of light. I guess then it depends on what plants you want and if you want high tech or low tech. 


-Val


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## discuspaul

Thanks Val - And your info is quite correct.


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## Psionic

Thank you, Paul. I'd like to think I learned a little bit in these couple of months. I also tried to research them a lot before I got them. Best way to not have lots of fish die on you is to look up what they need beforehand. I knew getting juvies would be hard. So far though, it's been pretty easy for me. I made my own food and change 50-75% water a day. I use a Python, so it's super easy.

If I didn't have a Python? I'd do be doing much smaller water changes and not as frequent cause I hated that.


----------



## Psionic

I have 2 fish out of my 6 that are about an inch smaller than the others. They just grow slower I suppose. They are also the lowest 2 in the pecking order. But they also look different. Do fish from the same batch come out so different from each other? My 4 largest ones are like the pic I posted above. The smallest ones are like this. Just wonky fish that don't match?


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## discuspaul

Don't worry about it. Genes are a big factor, as you know. Just treat them all well, give them some time to develop & mature - you may be surprised as to how things turn out.
There are slow growers and faster growers - sometimes it'd just a catch up thing , with time.


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## Psionic

I just ordered some of Al's fdbw. I'm excited! I can tell how much bigger the fish are getting by the size of the food pieces they can eat. Before they would leave beef heart on the bottom because it was too big and they'd spit it out. Now they can eat the larger pieces. The same with the tetra bits. I had tried to feed them bw before but they couldn't get them in their mouth and gave up quickly. If they can't eat these, I can always mix some of it into my next beef heart batch. 

My mother came over last night and asked if those were the same fish from a couple of months ago. She couldn't believe how much bigger they were or brighter. When they were 2" they were just pink blobs. Now they're almost the size of my palm with lots of blue showing up and more every week. The 4 largest that is. The 2 spotted ones are still smaller, but they are growing steadily as well. 

I've really enjoyed growing these out. It's probably the most fun I've had with a fish. I did manage to kill the only plant in there though lol. 


-Val


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## kalawai2000

Thanks for the great guide its better than any book a person can buy.
in the future I would love to buy a few discus for my planted tank. After much reading different forums on discus fish I'm thinking to acquire adult discus. 

I do have a question about discus and maybe this has already been asked but does it matter which strain?


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## discuspaul

Not at all.
It's just a matter of what strain and coloration you like, and what is available to you. Go for it !


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## bucilini

Wau. Thank you for this guide as i would have just winged it as i did for my 12 gallon tank. Again thank you for taking the time to write this.


----------



## BarbMazz

Hey, Paul! Just read through the guide, and the similarities between reef and freshwater are pretty astounding!

I'm very familiar with cycling a tank. I know the chems. I know ALL about water changes lol, I have an RO/DI unit. I have a freshwater barrel for the filtered water. I have the frozen foods. 

My question is about the lighting. I have a 36" 6 bulb T5HO retrofit into my canopy. I'll be using a 50g breeder as that will utilize my tank and canopy. Let's say I do decide on a planted discus tank, what sort of lighting is sufficient for FW plants. I'm sure I can monkey around with my lights so they are right for this tank.

It's a great guide, all around.


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## discuspaul

Thanks Barb.
Your 6 bulb T5HO lighting will likely be heavy overkill for a 50 gal freshwater planted tank, and would probably create significant algae problems.
Perhaps using just 2 of those bulbs will do the job (if you can operate just 2 alone) - what is the wattage of the bulbs ?.
I believe I suggested to you that you should begin with low-tech (no pressurized CO2), until you gain some experience keeping discus, which is why I believe the 6 bulbs would be far too intense to begin with.
Hope this helps.


----------



## BarbMazz

The bulbs are 39w, and yes, I can run just two with my aquacontroller.
Yes, you did suggest a low tech tank to begin with, and I agree that's the wiser course of action to begin.
I know I'm probably asking all the right questions in the wrong place!


----------



## discuspaul

Don't hesitate to PM me anytime, Barb, if I can be of any more assistance as you proceed.
And yes, the 2 X 39w T5 HO's should be just fine to begin with.


----------



## ccbeauch

Have had discus for a while and read the first statement about discus being measured from tip to tail!? I always thought it was top fin to bottom fin... My the things one can learn from reading. Now I have to remeasure the fish. Btw a guy near me has a 320 gallon fish tank and has 17 discus in the range of 12 to 18 inches! Says 5 inches and that made me laugh so just wanted to pass that info on to you.


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## discuspaul

Discus size is generally measured from tip of nose to end tip of tail, although many go by nose to base end of body, excluding tail fin.
BTW, I've seen hundreds, if not thousands, of discus over the past 30 + years, and I've never seen a 12" discus, never mind 18" (which I believe doesn't exist.) Largest I've ever seen was maybe 11".


----------



## ccbeauch

For some reason I believe you over him about his 18" disucs. He seemed like he was trying to sound cool to me cus I'm a bit younger than the average Discus keeper.

I do have some questions though. I have a 72 bowfront tank that I recently aquired through craigslist and it's going well. I did have one discus die on me last week (week 4 of fish inhabiting the tank) and now my population in the tank is down to 4 (all being about 4.5 inches tip to tail). I wanted to get some more but wasn't sure how many more my tank could handle. They would be about 3 inches or so. It is very heavily planted and I dose with Excel since the petsmart diffuser CO2 wasn't cutting it on this tank. 

My tank still turns yellow every 3 to 4 days from the wood I do believe. I did boil the wood two months ago and it seems like whatever I do the tea color keeps coming back. I have one aqua clear 110 hob filter and a sponge filter as well in the same corner. I have my lights on from 10am to 8pm.

I also seem to have an explosion of snails and can't get rid of them. I heard loaches eat the snails but was wondering if that would be okay with my kinds of the aquarium. 

When I had them in my 29 gallon tank my tank was BEAUTIFUL crystal clear with no problems just like yours looks. Now with the upgrade I seem to being doing things wrong. Btw your tank is AMAZING looking. That's the kind of tank I'm aiming for.

Thanks for your time


----------



## discuspaul

ccbeauch said:


> For some reason I believe you over him about his 18" disucs. He seemed like he was trying to sound cool to me cus I'm a bit younger than the average Discus keeper.
> 
> I do have some questions though. I have a 72 bowfront tank that I recently aquired through craigslist and it's going well. I did have one discus die on me last week (week 4 of fish inhabiting the tank) and now my population in the tank is down to 4 (all being about 4.5 inches tip to tail). I wanted to get some more but wasn't sure how many more my tank could handle. They would be about 3 inches or so. It is very heavily planted and I dose with Excel since the petsmart diffuser CO2 wasn't cutting it on this tank.
> 
> My tank still turns yellow every 3 to 4 days from the wood I do believe. I did boil the wood two months ago and it seems like whatever I do the tea color keeps coming back. I have one aqua clear 110 hob filter and a sponge filter as well in the same corner. I have my lights on from 10am to 8pm.
> 
> I also seem to have an explosion of snails and can't get rid of them. I heard loaches eat the snails but was wondering if that would be okay with my kinds of the aquarium.
> 
> When I had them in my 29 gallon tank my tank was BEAUTIFUL crystal clear with no problems just like yours looks. Now with the upgrade I seem to being doing things wrong. Btw your tank is AMAZING looking. That's the kind of tank I'm aiming for.
> 
> Thanks for your time


Thanks.
You could actually keep several more 3" discus in your tank for now, but it wouldn't be very long before you were overcrowded, particularly as it is heavily planted - this heavy planting would likely cause you some problems in keeping the tank as clean as it should be for discus, and is perhaps the reson you have already lost one. Your tank would be ok for 6 or 7 adult discus on an ongoing basis, but you would need to maintain a fairly strict, regular tank cleansing routine, and frequent, large wcs.

The yellowish tannin from the new wood can be quickly & effectively removed by using Purigen in your filter. A few days use should do the job.

A snail explosion is a toughie - one way to handle it without introducing any other fish which may be incompatable with discus, is to maintain a glass trap for a while, with some blanched lettuce or other veggie as bait, and keep tossing them out each day for a while, as they gather in the trap, till you drastically reduce the population. Also, you should remove as many as you can by hand with each wc, that is assuming you want to get rid of them - they don't hurt the discus in any way.
Plecos and some other snail-eating fish could cause problems for your discus. BNP's would be fine, but I'm not sure if they do much damage to a snail population.
Hope this helps.


----------



## ccbeauch

discuspaul said:


> Thanks.
> You could actually keep several more 3" discus in your tank for now, but it wouldn't be very long before you were overcrowded, particularly as it is heavily planted - this heavy planting would likely cause you some problems in keeping the tank as clean as it should be for discus, and is perhaps the reson you have already lost one. Your tank would be ok for 6 or 7 adult discus on an ongoing basis, but you would need to maintain a fairly strict, regular tank cleansing routine, and frequent, large wcs.
> 
> The yellowish tannin from the new wood can be quickly & effectively removed by using Purigen in your filter. A few days use should do the job.
> 
> A snail explosion is a toughie - one way to handle it without introducing any other fish which may be incompatable with discus, is to maintain a glass trap for a while, with some blanched lettuce or other veggie as bait, and keep tossing them out each day for a while, as they gather in the trap, till you drastically reduce the population. Also, you should remove as many as you can by hand with each wc, that is assuming you want to get rid of them - they don't hurt the discus in any way.
> Plecos and some other snail-eating fish could cause problems for your discus. BNP's would be fine, but I'm not sure if they do much damage to a snail population.
> Hope this helps.


I figured they were not hurting the discus because I didn't find any lesions on them or anything but I just don't like how it makes the tank look. So far I’ve been trying to grab every snail I see with each WC and they just keep coming back stronger. Others have been advising a clown loach. Not sure if that is the right move. I also already have two bristle noses (one male and one female) who don't eat them or even go near them. What exactly is a glass trap? Is that just a clip on the wall with a veggie?

I also was wondering if I need to have the carbon in the AC filter? I took it out after week 1 because I read it messes with the CO2 and can build up like an ammonia bomb and if it leaks the fish might all die!

Thanks for all of your tips. Great to have someone more knowledgeable than myself or the average YouTube person giving me advice.


----------



## discuspaul

Just a small glass jar placed sideways on the tank bottom, near a glass wall of the tank, with some blanched veggie in it, brocolli, cucumber, lettuce, whatever. In a few days, many snails will gather in the jar, and you just remove it, toss it all out, and replace it with some new veggie.
Clown loaches are not particularly good discus tankmates - usually too active, move too fast, and tend to startle & stress discus, ime.
No need to ever use carbon in a discus tank - at least I've never had occasion to do so.
Purigen is another matter though - for producing superb water clarity & improving water quality, there's nothing better, far as I'm concerned.


----------



## In.a.Box

Some of my discus are still shy, tank site in the living room so when people walk by or sometime move a hand the discus freak and hide. 

How to get your discus to get *use* to human walking, moving, so they won't get scare?

Any picture of a stun discus being side by side to a non stun discus?


----------



## ccbeauch

My discus used to be like that when they were in the 29 gallon tank. When I relocated it to a corner in the room where people didn't walk by they became a lot more personable. High traffic areas seem to stress them out for some reason.


----------



## lipadj46

In.a.Box said:


> Some of my discus are still shy, tank site in the living room so when people walk by or sometime move a hand the discus freak and hide.
> 
> How to get your discus to get *use* to human walking, moving, so they won't get scare?
> 
> Any picture of a stun discus being side by side to a non stun discus?


Time, also if you have one skittish the rest will usually follow.


----------



## ccbeauch

discuspaul said:


> Just a small glass jar placed sideways on the tank bottom, near a glass wall of the tank, with some blanched veggie in it, brocolli, cucumber, lettuce, whatever. In a few days, many snails will gather in the jar, and you just remove it, toss it all out, and replace it with some new veggie.
> Clown loaches are not particularly good discus tankmates - usually too active, move too fast, and tend to startle & stress discus, ime.
> No need to ever use carbon in a discus tank - at least I've never had occasion to do so.
> Purigen is another matter though - for producing superb water clarity & improving water quality, there's nothing better, far as I'm concerned.


 
okay I'm going to give both of those a try! Thanks for talking me through all of that.


----------



## ccbeauch

lipadj46 said:


> Time, also if you have one skittish the rest will usually follow.


 
That is true too.


----------



## In.a.Box

People come over everyday so hopefully my discus can shy down a little soon.


----------



## discuspaul

In.a.Box said:


> People come over everyday so hopefully my discus can shy down a little soon.


 They will - you can be certain of that.


----------



## Duckling

Found this guide cause I'm doing research to prepare for future discus tank!

It's AMAZING!

But I just have a question, filtration, as much as possible kinda, but lots of L/hr also means fast moving water.

What about water current in the tank? I guess discus want slow moving water? 

This means I need to modify my exhausts of the ext-filters so that they don't stirr the water around too much, but still I suppose I need pretty high surface disturance to get plenty of oxygen down.

Any thoughts on this in general? 

Cheers!


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## discuspaul

A reasonable flow of water in a discus tank is no problem. You just don't want it so strong that the fish need to 'fight' the current to keep balanced and remain in place.
However, they are graceful, slow-moving fish, so seem to prefer a slower flow movement.
Surface agitation is good in a discus tank - I get plenty of it with 2 AC 110 filters and a Hydor Koralia circulation pump.


----------



## Duckling

Thank you!


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## discusplantedtanklover

Hi Paul

I have been discus keeper for last couple years. I going to planted tank with discus in near future (couple months).Thanks for all infor you had on sticky.


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## drewsuf82

I know this hs been up for a while but thanks for an awesome guide....I've subscribed to it although these beautiful fish are nowhere in my near future


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## discuspaul

Thanks to all for your kind comments.
Please contact me anytime if I can be of further help when you're ready to proceed with your discus tank plans. I'm here to help with your questions.


----------



## Gleadster1

Hello, I'm also looking for some help. I've recently taken an order of 10 discus in my 330 litre tank. all are about 3 to 3 1/2 inches long to the tail. 

I've sinned somewhat as my tank water is 8.2 which im blaming on the gravel as my tap water is about 7.8. my main question is can I keep discus in this water and successfully expect them to colour up and grow to the stand that they would in 'ideal' conditions. my ammonia and nitrites are at zero and my nitrates are about 15ppm. GH and KH unknown. 

I do have access to an RO machine but it isnt at my home so water changes of severe magnitude and daily would be difficult/impossible. if the PH is acceptable then could i just use an HMA filter and drip feed the tank to top it back up during vacuumings or outright water changes?

Any input would be well received, as the guys at the LFS cover their backs with the generic "ph must be 7 or else" but i dont have the storage facilities to house an RO unit and the significant water containers required for 50% changes 2-3 times a week

help?!


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## discuspaul

Many discus-keepers around the world, and particularly in some parts of the U.K. where the available water supply may tend to be hard, alkaline, and the pH over 8.0, very successfully keep discus without resorting to RO water. But my understanding is that quite a number of these discus hobbyists also use HMA filtration.

The latter I gathered from membership in the BIDKA forum (British & International Discus-Keepers Association), where my beginner's guide is also located in the BIDKA Library section.
Discus have been grown out to good health, shape and coloration in pH of over 8.0, up to as much as near 9.0 with regularity and without issue over the years.

The only real negative I'm aware of if pH is above 8.0 is that breeding can become quite a challenge, with spawnings of fry being few and far between.

If you remain somewhat concerned, you could add several pieces of driftwood to your tank which, over a reasonable time period, will tend to safely lower the pH.

In addition, or alternatively, you could incorporate a small bagged amount of peat in your filter system, if you don't mind the tannin coloration - the fish don't mind at all.
With the use of peat though, it needs renewing with fresh periodically, as it loses effectiveness and the capacity to soften water and maintain lower pH.
Hope this helps.


----------



## Gleadster1

Thank you Paul for the speedy reply. I currently have no desire to breed discus I simply want to get them to grow and colour properly. I've had discus from a few months back off a hobbyist who bred some fry, I am a novice but on reflection looking at his fish and the ones I've just bought I am adamant the first batch were a poor quality and heavily stunted. 

Back to the issue, I would quite happily hook up an hma filter for water in place of using RO water. If that is the case would this mean I can literally let that water drip into the tank with no fear of having to dechlorinate the water or store vast quantities of water? Practically for me this would be ideal but I'm thinking long term health for these fish. Additionally I've heard RO water is unstable and that I would either have to buffer a percentage or add a percentage of my already high ph water

Thank you 
Sam


----------



## discuspaul

Yes, the HMA filter dripping water into the tank should work just fine without using a conditioner - (should be no problem with chlorine &/or chloramines, and I expect there is no ammonia in your tap water).
Using RO water is not necessarily 'unstable', but yes some buffering is needed to re-mineralize to a decent extent - or as you mentioned, using some combination/ratio of your tap water & RO water -...... so in the final analysis, go ahead with your HMA filtration.


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## Gleadster1

Hello once again, I've had 10 settled discus in a barebottom tank with no decoration with all fish eating for two weeks without problem until now. 1 of the smaller blue diamonds is off his food, the colour on him is fine and his fins are out as normal. Just when I feed the others they all attack the food as normal. Why could he be off his food? Fish is just under 3 inches long. Water temp 30 Celsius. 15% water changed daily and lights on about 12 hours a day. No fish attacks him either 
Thank you


----------



## jonathan

> If raising juvies, your ideal routine would be daily wc’s of between at least 25%, to 50% or more.


Daily 50% wc in a 55gal + aquarium would kill me. Beautiful fish though.


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## discuspaul

Gleadster1 said:


> Hello once again, I've had 10 settled discus in a barebottom tank with no decoration with all fish eating for two weeks without problem until now. 1 of the smaller blue diamonds is off his food, the colour on him is fine and his fins are out as normal. Just when I feed the others they all attack the food as normal. Why could he be off his food? Fish is just under 3 inches long. Water temp 30 Celsius. 15% water changed daily and lights on about 12 hours a day. No fish attacks him either
> Thank you


If his color remains good, his fins are outstretched, and he's not doing any serious hiding out alone, I wouldn't be too concerned, certainly not yet anyway.
You may not have seen it - but he may have been bullied a bit, or had a scare of some kind, has been stressed, and become shyer temporarily as a result. Give him more time before getting really concerned.
He should resume eating when he gets hungry - which could be quite a few days. 

Discus can go a very long time without eating, before starvation sets in, and emancipation & ill health takes over.

Are you sure he's not eating at all ? Howlong has it been - perhaps you may not have actually witnessed his eating, at least a bit, some of the time.
What diet variety have you been feeding your bunch & how often ?

Keep in mind that out of a group of ten discus, you could have one that was somewhat weaker or stressed out more than the others when you got them.


----------



## discuspaul

jonathan said:


> Daily 50% wc in a 55gal + aquarium would kill me. Beautiful fish though.


 Why would it kill you ? lol
Hundreds, if not thousands, of discus-keepers, do it on a regular, long-term basis, many in much larger tanks than 55 gals.
I did daily 60% wcs in my 70+ gal tank when my discus were smaller juvies.
Many use pythons or pumps of one kind or another for siphoning & refilling - fast and easy.


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## jonathan

discuspaul said:


> Many use pythons or pumps of one kind or another for siphoning & refilling - fast and easy.


Yeah, see this is what I need ...

I have been doing weekly water changes the old fashion manual way. One bucket at a time. Its become my least favorite activity.


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## DeeJayA1

good info


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## Gleadster1

Thanks for the reply Paul. 
It's been about three days, the trouble being I noticed all the fish eating initially where as now one doesn't go to the top of the tank to get in on the frenzied feeding. Fins are totally outstretched and colour is fine, not dark at all. There are times however I do catch him at one end of the tank on his own, other times he does mingle but its only been a very recent development. The discus are currently working out a hierarchy amongst them and there is a pecking order of which this blue diamond is near the bottom. 
Foods are primarily the blister pack food. Beef heart, discus diet, frozen bloodworm, frozen brine shrimp, tubifex. I've tried flake only once or twice and they never seemed interested so i avoided putting it in thereafter


----------



## Gleadster1

Oh yes I feed between 3-6 times a day depending on work. With the Christmas break over its basically become 3 times now.


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## discuspaul

You're doing the right things. Just keep an eye on that little Blue Diamond - an easy going routine amongst the bunch should establish when that pecking order is well sorted out, and the stress over with. If that fish was healthy when you got him, I believe he should be ok with a little more time. Just keep up the wcs, with a good tank cleansing regimen, and those feedings.


----------



## Gleadster1

Hello Paul, the blue diamond has begun eating again. I've observed some of the behaviour at night and they definitely do chase each other about. On a new subject though, another discus has developed a bulging eye. Potentially Popeye but unknown. It's possible the fish has knocked into the tank or air stone/pump inlet pipe. But with that said I was wondering if a fish has nibbled at him and he was slow getting away? Will his eye return to normal? I can imagine he is in a decent amount of pain? Any advice? My ammonia and nitrite are at zero. Nitrates between 20-40 on the API freshwater test kit.

Thank you

Sam


----------



## discuspaul

Gleadster1 said:


> Hello Paul, the blue diamond has begun eating again. I've observed some of the behaviour at night and they definitely do chase each other about. On a new subject though, another discus has developed a bulging eye. Potentially Popeye but unknown. It's possible the fish has knocked into the tank or air stone/pump inlet pipe. But with that said I was wondering if a fish has nibbled at him and he was slow getting away? Will his eye return to normal? I can imagine he is in a decent amount of pain? Any advice? My ammonia and nitrite are at zero. Nitrates between 20-40 on the API freshwater test kit.
> 
> Thank you
> 
> Sam


Yes, Sam, that fish could easily have been injured one way or another, but it's very doubtful that another fish nibbled on him. Usually, most types of bumps, bruises, scrapes or lacerations are not at all very serious, and will usually mend/heal well by themselves over time, sometimes very quickly.

Do not be concerned. Continue to do fairly frequent good-sized water changes, as fresh clean water is an excellent healer of many things. And judging by your nitrates being in the 20 to 40 range, it seems you could increase your wcs. Nitrates of 40 ppm is generally somewhat too high for discus. You should try to keep them under 10 with more and larger wcs.
My tank is always '0' for ammonia & nitrites, and nitrates are always under 5 ppm, often 0 too - this by doing 3 X 60% wcs per week.

As far as chasing each other around, that is normal, consistent behavior for discus, and will more or less continue for their lifetime. Don't worry about it.


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## Gleadster1

Thanks Paul
Would 3 days @ 60% be acceptable for growing out juvies? Would that still include daily siphoning? 
Other issue is my tap water has nitrates over 5ppm it's more like 15. 

I'd also like to pick your brains about feeding. I place food in they annihilate it in about a minute then spend the next four or so minutes grazing. In the past I've tried adding more food but they ultimately don't finish their meal as quickly or a dominant fish stands guard ensuring another fish doesn't eat (all the while raising my nitrates) so I'm back to the lesser 1 minute feed followed by grazing. Is this ok?

Am I damaging my fish health in doing daily 15% wc then? Really that's about as much as I can store

Thanks

Sam.


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## discuspaul

Gleadster1 said:


> Thanks Paul
> Would 3 days @ 60% be acceptable for growing out juvies? Would that still include daily siphoning?
> Other issue is my tap water has nitrates over 5ppm it's more like 15.
> 
> I'd also like to pick your brains about feeding. I place food in they annihilate it in about a minute then spend the next four or so minutes grazing. In the past I've tried adding more food but they ultimately don't finish their meal as quickly or a dominant fish stands guard ensuring another fish doesn't eat (all the while raising my nitrates) so I'm back to the lesser 1 minute feed followed by grazing. Is this ok?
> 
> Am I damaging my fish health in doing daily 15% wc then? Really that's about as much as I can store
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Sam.


If you mean - would 60% wcs 3 X a week be acceptable for juvie discus ?
The answer is no, IF they are real small youngsters like 2" fish, which should have daily wcs. 
If they are 3" juvies or larger, then that should be fine, if your wcs are also accompanied by a good tank cleansing routine, glass wall wipe-downs, and substrate vacuuming, if it is planted, and even then you may experience an occasional stunted fish. To be expected.

If your tap water has nitrate content, then you have a small bit of a problem - necessitating larger, more frequent wcs, unless you have a medium to more heavily planted environment to eat up some of those nitrates.
5ppm is no prob, but maybe 15 ppm is.

Feeding - It's great that they literally 'breathe it all in' in about a minute, and then graze for a while- that's what discus do - nothing wrong with that. So keep doing that, do it several times a day, at various intervals - they'll love you for it, it will develop them into following a good repetitive routine, and they'll get fed enough.

I'm a little confused about your wc routine, but suffice to say that if you can do 60% wcs 3 X a week, supplemented by a 15% change on the odd other days , then man, that would be excellent. Are you following me here ?
Hope this helps.


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## Gleadster1

Hello Paul. I'm assuming then that my 15% daily changes aren't enough then. Be that as it may I might create my own device to top up the tank straight from the tap as I can get the water at 30 degrees Celsius from there enabling much larger changes. If I were to do that should I be dechorinating the tank just before I add the new water so no chlorine or chloramine are exposed to the filter media or should I top up my tank and dechlorinate all the finished water? 

Now the fish are in my care I want to do my best and I'll kick myself if I don't give all I can to the cause.

Thanks

Sam


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## discuspaul

Well Sam, it's probably best if you can dechlorinate while the fresh tap water is refilling the tank, but doing it immediately after the fill is likely ok too. I don't believe you will have any problem either way.


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## Gleadster1

Hello again Paul I've learnt lots from you since we last spoke. My discus are all well and eating I was wondering if I'm on the right track. My fish are 4 inches long and about 7 months old. Is this acceptable? I'm certain they could possibly be larger but am I on the right track? 
Thanks
Sam.


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## discuspaul

Hi Sam,
If you're giving your discus the attention they deserve (e.g. by way of water changes, etc.), they're active, well-colored, looking good, and eating well, then you can't ask for much more than that.

As for your question - it's difficult to give you any real firm answer - Depends where you got them, what size they were when you got them, how old they were at the time, how they were grown out, how long you have had them, how much they've grown since you got them, etc.

Keep in mind that if you got them from a fully reliable, experienced supply source, or a good breeder, and you asked how old they were when you got them, you probably got an honest answer, if indeed the seller knew their age. If you got them from some other source (e.g. an LFS, or friend, or unknown supplier, then they probably didn't know how old they were, or may not have been truthful with you.

If you know for certain your discus are in fact 7 months old, then a size of 4" is not too bad at all - they could possibly be closer to 5" or more, IF they were grown out in a bb tank, with large daily wcs, and several daily feedings.

But overall, I woudn't worry too much about it. If you keep taking good care of them and they grow some more over the next 4-5 months, (at least 1" - hopefully 2" or more) then that's likely to be the best you can ask for and expect.
Hope this helps.


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## Gleadster1

Hi Paul
I bought from a dealer who assures me they I got them at 3 months. The colour has come through but still awaiting the full colour of the middle of the fish which I'm hoping colours in with age to the brilliance of the fin colour. There is no doubt I have aided their growth and my 4" was an average some are 3.5" and others are 4.5" due to hierarchy which is obvious during feeding times. I've kept up with your advice from previous posts on this website but perhaps impatiently I'd like to see the fishes larger (I have a friend with oscars who naturally are huge in short timespan) 

Thanks
Sam


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## discuspaul

Well-cared for in a bb tank, well-fed juvies should grow near 3/4" per month, or more, for the first 3-4 months. Then growth tends to slow down to maybe a 1/2" per month approx., or less, from months 5 to 8-9. By then they should be near adults, usually close to 5", and adult size of around 6" or so by the time they're a year old.
In some strains of discus, it can take as much as 8 to 12 months for theit full adult coloration to develop.


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## Gleadster1

Hi Paul 
For the record without taking the fish out of the water I'm guessing measurement of the discus. Also I am including the tail which I hope you were too. 
My red Turk has pattern and good colour on his belly
My blue Turks have weaker colour and markings
My cobalt blues have weak coloration on their middles
My blue diamonds are coloured up nicely

In short I'm hoping the blue Turks and cobalt are slow to colour


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## discuspaul

Yes, I measure from nose to end of tail, but some measure only from nose to base of body, excluding tail fin.
And yes, the turks and cobalts may develop more coloration yet.


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## Warlock

Take a pic please..

Chances are may.. I repeat may.. get another inch.. 

How big were they when u got then

And u really need to pull them out and put tape to them.. you will be suprised how off u will be


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## Gleadster1

I'd say I got them 3-4 months old and sold to me as 2 1/2 long. If all is correct I make them 7 months old. I have no aversion to removing the fish to measure them but I don't want to stress them or make them skittish when I approach the tank in the future.


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## Warlock

Gleadster1 said:


> I'd say I got them 3-4 months old and sold to me as 2 1/2 long. If all is correct I make them 7 months old. I have no aversion to removing the fish to measure them but I don't want to stress them or make them skittish when I approach the tank in the future.



Can u post some pics.. they sound stunted.. but they are good starter fish.. enjoy..


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## teamhuckem

Hi Paul, 

Your beginner article is very helpful. I have a 150 gallon planted tank waiting for the 6 juvenile discus I bought. They are in a BB 29 gallon (grow out tank) at the moment and are all between 2.5 and 3 inches. 

At what length would you recommend I add them to their new home. I hope to eventually have 12-15 total. 

The 150 is currently home to 10 glow light tetras, 24 cardinal tetras, 2 GBRs, 2 Apistos. I'm running an ecosystem refugium with a UV sterilizer (connected to a fluval 406).

The distributer recommended I wait until they are 4 inches (at least). 

I am currently doing 75-80 percent WC a day and they are still overcoming their shyness, but eat 4-6 times /day. 

Any input and suggestions are very welcome! 

Jim 

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4 Beta


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## discuspaul

The distributor is quite correct - don't move them until they're at least 4", and even then, they may seem 'lost' for a while in the new tank. 150 gal is a large tank, and as you likely know, that can hold close to 3 X as many adult discus as you now have.

So it would seem to be a good idea, from a sociability standpoint if nothing else, to get say, 4 to 8 more similar-sized discus to augment the group when you move them to their larger home. But at that time be sure to do a suitable quarantine of the new group.

It shouldn't take your juvies long to get comfortable with their new surroundings & get over their shyness. Hope they're all eating well.

Best of luck to you - don't hesitate to PM me at any time if I can be of further help.
Regards,
Paul


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## teamhuckem

Thank you very much for your quick reply to my post! I will definitely QT the next batch. I will also likely by slightly larger fish from the same distributer once these are large enough to put in the display tank. 

The fish are eating, devouring live food and pecking reluctantly at various flake food. I hope they pick up the pace on the various processed foods to balance out the diet. 

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4 Beta


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## rickey

One of the best article on Discus and fish keeping in general I've read (and I read a lot) well done

Rick


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## discuspaul

Thank you Rick.
My most earnest desire is that by reading my guide, many new discus-keepers will hopefully avoid the numerous problems and pitfalls that can be experienced by novices, (something most of us went through, including myself), and that it will help to reduce discus fatalities occasioned by a lack of proper care and attention when keeping these magnificent fish.


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## Stevegb

Can u kindly advise how much discus i can house in a 400 liter tank (fish approx 8 cms). Will it be possible to keep 16 discus ? and then reduce the number as they get older / bigger? I have filtration of 2400 l/h. Thanks a lot for your help.


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## discuspaul

Stevegb said:


> Can u kindly advise how much discus i can house in a 400 liter tank (fish approx 8 cms). Will it be possible to keep 16 discus ? and then reduce the number as they get older / bigger? I have filtration of 2400 l/h. Thanks a lot for your help.


 This depends a lot on the size the discus when you get them, and whether or not you maintain the tank as a bare-bottom tank, and pay proper attention to your water change and tank cleansing routine.

There is really no short, complete answer, but.....
As an example, if you keep the tank bare-bottom, and do at least 2 or 3 large wcs per week, keeping say 16 - 2.5" -3" (or even larger) discus in that tank should not be problematic, at least for a period of time - say a few months, in terms of avoiding potential stunting.
I would suggest though, that once they reach around 4.5" or so in size, you would do well to reduce the number to 10 or 12 discus to ensure the maintenance of a reasonable tank bio-load for the best potential health, growth development and compatibility of the fish.

Hope this helps you, but don't hesitate to ask any other questions you may have.


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## Stevegb

Thanks Paul,

I really appreciate your reply.

Mine is not a bare bottom tank, I do 1 WC every week for now around 30%/40%.

I have been keeping discus for the past 5 months and this is my tank (photo attached).

I have looked around on internet and i found the following on Stendker website :

"
Our recommendation for the population in an aquarium with a tank size 100 cm x 40 cm x 45 cm (c. 180 litres)

10-12 discus fish (8-10 cm in size). Fish of this size are very robust and are relatively moderately priced. This size of aquarium is sufficiently large for the fish when they are mature (they can reach a size of 20 cm in diameter). Since discus fish can live up to 15 years and are fully grown at 1 ½ years old, you can be sure that your purchase will be worthwhile. You can have any combination of colours in your discus group, e.g. a discus group of 2 fish each in six different colours, or you can stay with one colour.[/SIZE]"

3. Rearing Discus Fish, Keeping a Discus Group
To rear a discus group (of at least 10 fish) an aquarium with as small a capacity 
as180 litres / 50 US gallon is sufficient 
(100 cm x 40 cm x 45 cm) (40” x 16” x 18”) 
However, for 10 fully-grown fish we recommend using an aquarium with a 
capacity of at least 300 litres/ 80 gallons. "


But the more I read more i realized that this is not correct.

I currently have 6 nice growing discus (8 cm) and another 2 which remained a little small. After I read the above I therefore ordered a further 7 as i thought that with a bigger group they will be less bullying and eat more and grow nicer   now my question is this...can i take out the small growing discus and add the new fish im getting (i ordered them from Stendker 8cm)??? Or can i put them in the main tank and slowly remove the discus which are not growing as well??

Thanks a lot for your help,

SGB


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## Arron schofield

Nice setup they 7 there yeah

Sent from my C6903 using Tapatalk


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## discuspaul

To Stevegb:
Sorry, I completely missed seeing your question(s) in your Feb.8 post.
Are you still looking for some answers at this time ?


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## Stevegb

Hi Paul.


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## Stevegb

Hi Paul,

No Problem!

Yes I am still looking for answers, I did not make the move of discus yet. 

I was thinking or removing the 2 small discus which are in my main tank (which I am certain to be stunned) and replace them with 7 stendker discus that have been over 6 weeks in my quarantine tank. I will be using the stunned discus out of my main tank as sacrificial fish in the quarantine tank to make sure that they will be ok when moved with my other group.

What do u think about this plan???...this way I will have a total of 13 discus in my main tank when this move is complete! Do u think I will be overstocked just the same?

Thanks a lot,

Steve


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## discuspaul

Hi Steve,
You should finalize your quarantine in a way that protects the 7 new Stendker discus, and not the other way around. You don't want to expose all 7 of your Stendkers to possible contamination in your main tank, all at once.

I note that the Stendkers have been isolated in a quarantine tank environment for over 6 weeks now, and I assume they remain as healthy as when you got them and are eating well. (i.e. there are no apparent problems with them, and they are eating well.)

So, in order to protect the Stendkers and to ensure your main tank is not harboring any harmful pathogens, you should finalize your QT this way:

(note: NOT by placing one or two of your smaller discus into the QT tank with the Stendkers.) This exposes all 7 Stendkers to potential cross-contamination - risky.
Same goes for removing the 2 small ones from the main tank, and replacing them with all the Stendkers, leaving them with the 6 remaining fish, which is what I understand you wanted to do - just as risky.

You should take one of your Stendkers (the least desirable one) and place it into the main tank with all your other 8 discus for a period of 5 or 6 weeks. If there is cross-contamination, then all you risk is the loss of one Stendker - and you will then of course need to medicate the main tank before doing anything else.

If all is well in the main tank after that period, then it would be safe to move the remaining 6 Stenders from QT into the main tank. Of course, your 2 small ones, which if already stunted, will not grow much over time, but at least they should remain healthy, and no harm will be done. You will then have 15 fish in your main tank.

By doing the above, there is (conversely) also the slim possibility that the lone Stendker may cross-contaminate your other 8 fish in the main tank, but I would think that this would be highly unlikely assuming you obtained the Stendkers from a quality source, and they were all healthy when you got them (and your main tank was and is still free of harmful pathogens).

Hope you're following me ok on this.

And btw, you will not be overstocked if you have no other fish in your main tank - (I didn't see any in your photo).
BUT, you should certainly up your wcs, from one a week, to 2 or 3 X a week, and @ 50% quantity or more.
Best of luck to you.


----------



## discuspaul

P.S.
If it makes you feel better, you could re-home the 2 smaller discus now, do your QT as instructed (putting just one Stendker into the main tank with the 6 remaining discus) - and that way you end up with 13 just discus, presumably all of the same approximate size.


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## Stevegb

Thanks Paul,

I successfully moved my discus thanks to you. 

I will soon attached a picture for you to see. 

I am passing through some trouble right now with 2 of my discus but all the rest seem fine, I have sent you a private message re this.

Thanks a lot,

Steve


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## Stevegb

Paul,

Pis as discussed.




Regards

Steve


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## discuspaul

Your discus are beautiful, Steve.
They are well-shaped, colors are vibrant, and they look very healthy.
How recent is this picture of them ?






Stevegb said:


> Paul,
> 
> Pis as discussed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Regards
> 
> Steve


----------



## Stevegb

Very recent Paul, a week or two.

Thanks

Steve


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## jkan0228

Question on feeding.

Most people recommend feeding any fish what they can consume within a minute or two whereas in reality the fish are done eating in a matter of seconds.

The guide recommends feeding enough for 5 minutes so is feeding for 5 minutes really necessary? Or are they like all fish in which they're satisfied within a few seconds?


----------



## discuspaul

The answer to this question varies a great deal depending on the circumstances of your set-up. For example, the size and number of the discus can make a big difference in how much & how often you feed, and what you feed, and how quickly the food gets consumed.

Very young and juvie discus would likely do well with 5 to 8 small feedings a day (approx. - more or less) - just enough that they can consume quickly - and yes, that may be as little as just a few seconds., or a minute or so.

Older, larger discus get by well with one or two feedings a day, and since most like to graze for a while, you may find that some foods can & will be taken up over the course of as much as an hour or so before you would need to clean out the excess.

There is no definitive answer here - it often takes quite a bit of experimentation to determine if your discus are getting enough to eat and develop well, and whether that takes place quickly or not.


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## discuspaul

*Reminder for discus fans - & anyone else interested*

Just wanted to do a little bump to this thread for those of you who are relatively new to TPT and may not have come across my discus guide during your time here. 

If you are new to keeping discus and don't have a lot of knowledge about them, or experience in keeping these beautiful fish, or if you have an interest in giving them a try sometime, this post is just a reminder that I'm at your disposal to answer any questions you may have about keeping the 'king of the aquarium'.

Please don't hesitate to PM me anytime if you have any questions or concerns regarding discus - I'm always happy to help in any way I can.

I'd like to close by repeating once more that discus are hardy fish, and are relatively easy to keep if a few simple guidelines are followed.

And in that vein, I felt it might be appropriate to repeat here the 6 'cardinal rules' for being successful at keeping discus:


D-I-S-C-U-S - 6 CARDINAL RULES FOR NEWBIES TO FOLLOW


This listing is recorded more or less in order of importance:

1) - D - Do your homework well before delving into discus. Read and research all you can beforehand. Googling will certainly help, as well as spending a good deal of time reading the posts and threads on the simplydiscus.com forum, particularly the stickies in their 'Discus Basics'
section, which will provide you with much of the material you need to digest.

2) - I - Investigate and learn of the best sources to get your discus stock. Find those breeders &/or importers that are long time, well-experienced, responsible, reputable, and known to supply high quality, healthy, and well-shaped discus. Buy your discus from one of these sources in order to insure that you get off on the best footing possible.
This is the single, most important factor in succeeding with discus.

3) - S - Set up and plan to follow a strict regular routine of fresh water changes, tank wipe-downs and cleansing, vacuuming of wastes, and regular filter and media cleaning, changes, replacements, and maintenance. Be fully prepared for the kind of commitment it takes to produce and maintain the highest water quality and conditions that you can.

4) - C - Carefully consider the type of tank set up you start with. Make sure the tank size is ample enough to start with 5 or 6 discus. Don't be tempted to begin with a tank of less than 55 or 60 gallons, and don't try to justify going smaller by just getting 1, 2, 3, or 4 discus for cost or other reasons.
Wait till you have sufficient resources to get a proper-sized tank, and the suitable size and number of fish to insure continuing good health and harmonious discus sociability.
Do not start with small, undersized, very juvenile fish which have not yet developed a more mature immune system, are more demanding to raise properly, and much more prone to health problems and other issues. Get fish of at least 3.0" in size, preferably larger.

5) - U - Undertake to start off with a bare bottom tank, unless you're getting fully adult fish and have previous good experience with maintaining a planted tank. If you must have some decor, limit yourself to a very thin sand substrate layer, and perhaps a piece of driftwood with just a couple of small plants attached, or one or two potted plants.
Once you gain several months' of experience getting to know your discus' traits & behavior, and your discus get larger, then you may proceed to an aquascaped environment. Feed a varied diet, several times a day, and learn which foods will achieve a nutritious diet, by researching.

6) - S - Simplify. Keep things as simple as you can to start. Don't complicate your start with discus, at least at first, by placing them in a heavily planted environment, using CO2 and a strict fertilization regime. Make sure your tank is fully cycled before adding the fish, and don't be tempted to alter or change the pH of your water, or modify your water conditions and params by using chemicals of any kind. No need to use RO water or adopt any other procedures that would tend to complicate what should be a simple start to your discus launch.

Follow these 'rules', and there's little doubt you will succeed with discus !


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## discuspaul

Hey folks,
Any new discus-keepers, or new members interested in discus which have come on board the forum over the past few months ?
If so, it's been awhile since there have been any new threads regarding discus, and as some of you know, I love talking about them, and I really enjoy seeing pics of them too (most fish-keeping hobbyists love to see photos of any fish, even if they're not into, or interested in discus).
So if any of you have any discus photos to submit, I for one would love to have you share them with us, and I'm sure many others would too.


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## ChadKruger

I am what you could call Discus curious but scared to jump in. 
I have a 55 gallon very established heavily planted tank that has a pair of angel fish spawn regularly in. A lightly planted established 35 gallon rcs shrimp/guppy tank. 

The idea of discuss is very tempting but reading all the faqs including yours it all seems like it would be far to care intensive for me to jump into. I feel like if I for some reason missed a water change id end up killing the discus. 

Am I wrong thinking that?


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## discuspaul

Firstly I would point out that a 55 gal tank that is heavily planted and contains a mated pair of regularly spawning angels is hardly the place to keep discus, especially for a novice to discus-keeping.

Discus are social fish best kept in a group of at least 5 or more, and such a group in a 55 gal with aggressive spawning angels, would not only exceed a comfortable bio-load, but the angels would create havoc (and much stress) for the discus.

So in your case, discus are not for you at the present time, unless you re-home the angels and re-do your tank, or get another min. 55 to 60 gal tank just for discus.

Having said all that, discus are quite hardy (not delicate) and not difficult to keep successfully, so long as you follow a few simple 'rules'. The most important one of which is to give them as much fresh clean water and clean tank conditions as you can, since discus (in contrast to most other fish species) are largely intolerant of poor water quality & conditions.

As a newcomer to discus-keeping, if you stay away from young discus (i.e. anything less than 3", from nose to tail fin) whose immune systems are under-developed and they are more susceptible to health issues if water quality is not ideal, and you get your discus from a well-known, reputable/reliable and experienced source for supplying good quality discus, then you can easily keep a group of 5 or 6 in a light to medium planted tank if you wish, by doing 2 or 3 water changes weekly of around 40%-50%.

If you get adult, or near adult, fish of 4" or larger, the fish would do well if you can do, say 1 large water change per week, along with maintaining a good tank cleansing routine.

Should you decide to ever give it a go, I'd be pleased to help you out in any way I can, even walk you through a step by step process by PM if you wish, including directing you to the proper sources for getting quality discus, and any other info you might want.


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## ChadKruger

I didn't mean to imply tossing discus in with the angels I'm sorry. I was just attempting to give back ground to my experience level. 

I would have to go with adults as I work 5-13hr shifts and I wouldn't have time in my day to do daily water changes. As it is now my cleaning cycle is weekly on Saturday and includes 50% water change and filter check/cleaning as needed. 

When I get off work I will take pictures of my tank so you can see my idea of heavily planted is (opinions vary). Then you can see if it is or isn't a good fit. 

I take the health of my animals seriously and would respect your opinion on me being a sutible owner for discus. As such I wouldn't want to feel like I'm experimenting with their lives I'd rather feel confident in going into it.


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## discuspaul

Certainly sounds like you would be a good candidate to successfully keep discus.

If you're seriously contemplating doing it, what would your plan be - to re-home the Angels in one way or another, or to get a new 60 gal or so tank just for the discus ?

Looking forward to seeing the pics of your existing tank, and if you would plan on using that, I'll be glad to guide you properly in making any suitable changes needed to prepare it well for discus.
If you get discus of at least 4" or larger in size(preferably in the 5" range), then you would be taking absolutely minimal risk on keeping them healthy, even if you need to lighten up the plantings in your tank to give them lots of free swimming space, & also enabling you to do a good weekly tank cleansing along with a weekly wc.

Don't know how far away you are from San Fran, but Kenny's Discus in Daly City, Ca. is arguably the best supplier in the U.S. of high quality, healthy, well-shaped discus, of a large variety of different strains & coloration. 
You couldn't go wrong with him - his service is excellent, he also airships or provides overnite FedEx delivery, with live delivery guaranteed, if you're too far away for driving there and selecting your fish in person.

Looking forward to hearing further from you.
Keeping discus is very satisfying, and I'm sure you'd greatly enjoy it !
In fact, you'd very likely be 'hooked' - it's an addicting hobby. LOL


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## ChadKruger

Quick reply 

Wife sent me a picture and I live in between vacaville and fairfield ca. I'm right above sanfran.

Bump:


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## discuspaul

You're perfectly situated to drive down to see Kenny's operation & personally select your discus when the time comes - you're only a little over an hour's drive away. I've driven 3 hours each way to buy discus for myself.

As for your tank - very nice & good size for up to a half dozen adult or near adult discus, with no other tank-mates. 
Somewhat heavily planted to suitably accommodate discus, but more importantly, to allow you to keep the water quality & condition sufficiently good by way of adequate tank cleansing. 
A reasonable amount of thinning out would fix that. Not a problem. What kind of substrate is that ?


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## ChadKruger

It's amazonia. I've also found a good balance where I don't need to use co2 or add additional ferts. I pop in root tabs at the 6 month mark to boost the amizonia but it's still running strong at 2 years. 
Thining out the plants won't be an issue. 
Should I up my filtration? I have a sunsun canister filter right now, planted tanks for need a lot of filtration just water movement. Do you recomend a sponge filter or an additional canister? I'm not against making a sump under the tank to increase total water quantity. Would it be benifical? Also is RO water necessary?


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## discuspaul

I've never used Amazonia - so don't know what kind of material it is. Is it easy enough to keep clean of food & fish wastes, debris, decomposing plant matter, etc, using an aquarium vac tool ?
That's really all you need to concern yourself with - you want to be able to do a fairly good tank cleansing with your weekly wc.

You'll want to thin out the plants, by say 35% to 50% of the existing volume - to give the discus ample free swimming space, as well as allow you to get into & around the plants, and into the corners of the tank with your vac.

You shouldn't need RO water - tap should be fine - discus can do well in pH ranging from below 6.0 to above 8.0, so long as it's reasonably stable. Do you age water now, or is your tap water pH, and tank water pH maintained fairly close to each other - i.e. say within .7 or so of each other ?

I don't believe you need to up your filtration in any way. (Note: discus do seem to prefer moderate water circulation, not high/strong.) Don't know what your routine is for rinsing your filter media, but if you're now doing it less frequently than monthly, I'd suggest you make it monthly, or slightly more frequent.

A sump would definitely be beneficial, but not essential - your call.
It certainly would help in terms of bio-load considerations, keeping equipment out of sight of the main tank, & improving water clarification & quality.

You should be just fine - and you can't do better than Kenny's discus stock (from Forrest Discus from Malaysia - one of the top breeder/exporters worldwide).


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## kep

Thank you for making yourself so available Paul. I plan to end up with discus but want to get some more time under my belt and on the tank before I take the plunge. I've joined up over at "simply discus" and have started reading over there. One of my concerns is plants that tolerate the heat discus requires. 

Kennys Discus is in California as am I and looks like where I'll be headed when I'm ready. Glad I read not to buy from a LFS because mine does carry them and I didn't realize how important it is to buy from a reputable breeder. But it makes absolute sense. 

It will be a bit backwards as I'm starting with all about the plants but will have to make it all about discus before getting them and change my tank to suit. I'll be back with questions I'm sure. Not going to rush into them and risk losing fish and plants to ding dong mistakes. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## discuspaul

Glad to hear you've joined the simply discus forum, kep - you'll no doubt learn all you need to keep discus successfully by doing a lot of reading there, particularly the Stickies in the Discus Basics section. 
Don't be concerned in terms of plants that can handle the higher discus temps - there are many of them, and most of them hardy and easy to grow. Let me know if you're interested in compiling a list of them - I've kept at least 25 varieties in my discus tanks over the years. 

As for the sources of getting quality discus in North America, as I mentioned, Kenny's Discus in Daly City is arguably the best there is. Do buy from him when you're ready.

And yes, you're absolutely right about staying away from getting discus at LFS's - 
particularly when most novices to discus-keeping have not yet learned what a quality, healthy discus should really look like, and don't know how to recognize a sick, ailing, poorly cared for, substandard, stunted, or poorly-shaped fish.

I can't begin to enumerate the horror stories I've read about newbies getting their discus from a LFS, yet I can count on one hand the more or less success stories. There are some LFS that provide quality discus - but they are very few and far between.

Most LFS are just in it for the $$ (they generally charge a lot more than the true value of the fish, and on top of that, they either don't know how, or don't have the time or inclination to care for them properly, and their import sources are generally highly suspect). 
Let me know when you're ready - I'm more than happy to help out in any way I can, either here or on simply discus where I'm pleased to be on the moderating team.


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## kep

Hey Paul, Here is my current fish stock and a list of most of the plants in my tank. What would the minimum temp be for discus? 80? When you have a sec would you mind reviewing my flora and fauna and see if you think I'll run into any conflicts with the temp? They would be going into the 120g Spiderwood Island tank in my signature.

I'm finally confident that I can keep my parameters stable and have done enough rookie mistakes now. lol

It was either discus or angels and I'm just not sure I want the semi- aggression from the angels.

Thanks!

Riccia fluitans
Java moss, Taxiphyllum barbieri
Banana plant, Nymphoides aquatica
Java fern, Microsorium pteropus
Broadleaved amazon sword, Echinodorus blehari
Giant bacopa, Bacopa caroliniana
Broadleaved anubias, Anubias barteri
Anubias barteri var. nana 'petite'
Water primrose, Ludwigia repens
Dwarf hairgrass, Eleocharis acicularis
Brazilian pennywort, Hyrdrocotyle leucocophela
Rotala rotundifolia
Rotala wallichii
Ludwigia Red
Monte Carlo
AR mini
Hygro Augustifolia


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## discuspaul

Parts of your questions, Kep , are a touch difficult to deal with in the absence of photos, which would clearly show the quantity, size, and development of all your plantings, and the size of the fish you intend to be discus tank-mates.

You do have a large number of fish, and if many of them are of optimum, mature size, or near to it, then the addition of say 5 or 6 reasonably good- sized discus would probably bring the bio-load to high, near maximum limitations for your tank, and could even place it in an unacceptable condition if the tank is, and remains, heavily planted.
I'd really need to see pics to make a proper assessment.

As for temp, 82 F is the lowest temp I'd recommend for keeping discus healthy & thriving.
My tanks are kept @ around 82-83 to accommodate plants, and many do well at that temp.
Java Ferns, any of the amazon swords, anubias, bacopas, ludwigias, rotalas, hygros, & hairgrass should all be quite ok @ 82 F, and perhaps pennywort too.

Not sure about riccia, java moss, water primrose, monte carlo, and AR mini, but you could try some or all of them & see how they do - they might be ok.

As to compatible tank-mates, The sterbai cories, lemon tetras, cardinal tetras, rasboras, & rummy-noses should all do just fine. My experience with Panda Cories has not been too good at the higher discus temps - they seem to be the most delicate of the Cories.

Neons & Guppys don't generally make good discus tank-mates, primarily because they don't seem to do well @ the higher discus temps. Snails should be ok.
I've no experience with American flag fish as a discus tank-mate - can they handle temp over 80 ?
Otocinclus are fine when smaller/less mature, but as they become larger, older and lazier, they MAY take a liking to discus' slime coats as part of their diet, so they need to be carefully watched if kept with discus.
Hope this helps for now.


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## kep

Okay, thanks for the quick reply! I could rehome the pandas, guppy and neon if needed into my other tank. The other fish are all pretty much full grown except the Otos are new but are about 1.5-2" long. That would be sad to see them sucking on a discus! Poor fellas!

Flagfish are listed as semi-aggressive but mostly keep to themselves. I've seen them run off the corys here and there from a particular area that they are protecting. They tend to be food hogs but I feed enough so everyone gets some. The other fish do not have trouble getting dinner. The guppy looks like his tail fin may have been nipped a little though. I was warned when I got them that they do not do well with fish with long flowing fins. The guppy was a "rescue" from my sisters tiny tank that was being overrun with babies. Live aquaria states flagfish should be in 66-72 degrees so it would appear they like the cooler temps. I am going to say not compatible!

I have two canisters on the tank - an Eheim Pro 3 G90 and a Pro 3 G160 so there is plenty of filtration, but I wouldn't want anyone to feel cramped. 

Two of my goals with this tank have been a carpet and discus and it seems like those goals are conflicting! The Monte Carlo, Ludwigia red and AR mini I've just ordered and aren't in the tank yet. 

Here is a recent pic of the tank. 




























This one a little cloudy right after water change.


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## Mikeygmzmg

I miss my discuss. I had 6 beautiful powder blues since they were babies and grew to full maturity. Regrettably, I ended up selling them for 25 a piece...

I found that most of my success with them was from heavy heavy planting. They did the best when there was little too no open space or direct light on the substrate.. I got tired of that look and switched over. Maybe some day, I will re-visit the discuss world : )


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## discuspaul

kep said:


> Okay, thanks for the quick reply! I could rehome the pandas, guppy and neon if needed into my other tank. The other fish are all pretty much full grown except the Otos are new but are about 1.5-2" long. That would be sad to see them sucking on a discus! Poor fellas!
> 
> Flagfish are listed as semi-aggressive but mostly keep to themselves. I've seen them run off the corys here and there from a particular area that they are protecting. They tend to be food hogs but I feed enough so everyone gets some. The other fish do not have trouble getting dinner. The guppy looks like his tail fin may have been nipped a little though. I was warned when I got them that they do not do well with fish with long flowing fins. The guppy was a "rescue" from my sisters tiny tank that was being overrun with babies. Live aquaria states flagfish should be in 66-72 degrees so it would appear they like the cooler temps. I am going to say not compatible!
> 
> I have two canisters on the tank - an Eheim Pro 3 G90 and a Pro 3 G160 so there is plenty of filtration, but I wouldn't want anyone to feel cramped.
> 
> Two of my goals with this tank have been a carpet and discus and it seems like those goals are conflicting! The Monte Carlo, Ludwigia red and AR mini I've just ordered and aren't in the tank yet.
> 
> Here is a recent pic of the tank.
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> This one a little cloudy right after water change.


You could give the Pandas a try, Kep, they may do ok.
The last FTS pic of your tank doesn't appear too heavily crowded with plants, so it just might be acceptable for accommodating 6, say 4" sized discus.
Hard to tell how much swimming room there is between the frontal plantings & driftwood, and the front glass of the tank - hopefully 8" to 10" or so - which would be good. I'd be a little leery of the sharper prongs of the driftwood that stick out quite far- if the discus were spooked, they could harm themselves - I've seen it happen in some discus-keeping set-ups. Just my thoughts.


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## kep

discuspaul said:


> You could give the Pandas a try, Kep, they may do ok.
> The last FTS pic of your tank doesn't appear too heavily crowded with plants, so it just might be acceptable for accommodating 6, say 4" sized discus.
> Hard to tell how much swimming room there is between the frontal plantings & driftwood, and the front glass of the tank - hopefully 8" to 10" or so - which would be good. I'd be a little leery of the sharper prongs of the driftwood that stick out quite far- if the discus were spooked, they could harm themselves - I've seen it happen in some discus-keeping set-ups. Just my thoughts.



I'd have to go home and check but it looks tighter than it is, that I know. Hmmmm decisions decisions  Thanks for your help!


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## discuspaul

kep said:


> I'd have to go home and check but it looks tighter than it is, that I know. Hmmmm decisions decisions  Thanks for your help!


 Was just wondering, Kep, if there has been any further progress with the thinking on your discus project ?


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## Discusluv

Hi discuspaul! I really enjoyed reading your beginner's guide--- one of the best most thorough ones I have found online.

I just joined the forum to learn more about plants and was happily surprised to see a section on discus. 

I will share some pictures of my discus. I have been keeping discus for about 15 years. Right now I only have a pair of Alenquer F1's in a 60 gallon with some rummy-nose tetras, but, I will be getting 5 wild manacapuru red discus next week from John at Freshwater Tropical Online. Im excited, this will be my first experience with wild discus. 

Here are some photos of my pair.



















Here is a picture of the wilds will be getting in the vendors tank. I will post some more pictures when receive them. 











The manacapuru red discus will be going into a 180 gallon tank with some geophagus sveni, Phenacogrammus aurantiacus. and Hyphessobrycon pulchripinni "Orange". Here are some photos of tank and the fish they will go with. I would love to hear any suggestions you may have of the fish or setup.


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## discuspaul

Thanks for sharing pics of your discus, Discusluv !

I love your pair, and your new wilds are 'exquisite' - there's nothing more downright gorgeous IMO than any group of the same of any one of the different varieties of wilds - that's why I think you should get a few more of those wilds to make a larger group - would be breath-taking I'm sure.

I feel they would look best in a low-light minimalist, and tannin-laden decorated tank, simply done with white pool filter sand, and a well organized & arranged display of smaller branched drift wood - the way I would envision their being in their natural Amazonian environment.

Keep up the good work with your success with discus !
Regards,
Paul


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## Discusluv

Thank you for the suggestions, Paul. I can most certainly take some of the rock out and scale it back a bit on the driftwood to give them more space. I also have some dried oak leaves that I can use to add some tannins to the tank. I dont know if John has anymore of the manacapuru reds, Ill have to see tomorrow after holiday.


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## discuspaul

Discusluv said:


> Thank you for the suggestions, Paul. I can most certainly take some of the rock out and scale it back a bit on the driftwood to give them more space. I also have some dried oak leaves that I can use to add some tannins to the tank. I dont know if John has anymore of the manacapuru reds, Ill have to see tomorrow after holiday.



If you do proceed to make these changes, may I suggest you go very lightly with any tannins - just a small amount of yellow/brownish coloration - you want to be able to clearly see the beautiful coloration, and shapely outline of the wilds !


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## sekunda2003

This is a great read! I'm researching options for a new tank and discus is one option that I know nothing about. This is the best post/article I have found yet, thanks for posting it!

- Matt


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## discuspaul

Keep in mind, Matt, that I'm here to help you or anyone else to be successful at discus-keeping, so feel free to call on me at any time with any questions you may have.


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## sekunda2003

Awesome... thanks! I'm doing a lot of research right now and trying to answer most of my own questions. Learning a lot in the process...


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## sekunda2003

discuspaul said:


> Keep in mind, Matt, that I'm here to help you or anyone else to be successful at discus-keeping, so feel free to call on me at any time with any questions you may have.


Paul, I was wondering what your thoughts are on a sump with a discus tank. (For ease of filter media maintenance, hiding equipment, and adding more water to the overall system). I'm trying to decide between a nature aquarium -or- a discus planted tank. It would be a 90 gallon tank with a 25-35 gallon sump... Without a sump I would probably have to use 2 canister filters with inline heaters to keep appearances clean and water toasty.

Matt


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## discuspaul

Many discus-keepers operate sumps - anything that improves water quality & conditions (among other benefits) is a plus in discus-keeping - so if you can do it, go for it.


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