# Hagen CO2 Ladder Question....what's up with the whack....???



## 2la (Aug 18, 2002)

Give it a couple of days. The surfaces need to get covered with biofilm to lubricate the bubbles' pathway.


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## hubbahubbahehe (Sep 13, 2003)

ok you got it 2la i'll fill you in a week from now 

good lookin out bro


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

LOL hubba...yeah, definitely give it a week or so. I had the same thoughts as you when I picked mine up, but I decided to just leave it alone.


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

Mine was going great by the morning after i installed it, just got to wait for that biofilm to develop....


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## Kaji1 (Dec 18, 2003)

It'll work awsome just give it some time to grow some slime  Took me about a day or 2. I also had no alge eaters in my tank when I installed it.


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## pedietz (Dec 18, 2003)

My ladder was cracked so the bubbles were sticking on it. Hagen shipped me a new one free of charge....


Also make sure you dont have:
- too much algae on the ladder
- a snail sitting on the ladder rung
- plant debris

Bubbles will stick on those too.

Especially the snails. Some have tried crawling in the tube and give up after a couple hours.


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## malkore (Nov 3, 2003)

sometimes you'll get a kinda heavy white, mucusy/cottony buildup on it too, which will make the bubbles merge and go too fast to diffuse. just clean it off.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

I added one of them to my 10 gal tank. It works well, however I see two big drawbacks to it:

*It is ugly.* Having a heater stick into my little 10 gal scape is bad enough. This thing looks like an alien power plant. At least it is quiet...

How do you keep *plants from growing into it*, thereby obstructing the bubble path. Because of its beauty, you'd try to hide it on the back somewhere, but this is where the plants are at its thickest...


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## anonapersona (Oct 19, 2002)

I put it on the side so I ony see the edge of it. Not pretty, I agree, but not too terrible.


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

yup got mine to the side as well right next to the outlet of the powerhead... to spread carbonated water... I think its kinda pretty


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## Kaji1 (Dec 18, 2003)

My ladder you can't see it I have a peice of driftwood that looks like the bottom of a hockey stick it's flat on the bottoem and comes up straitght to the top of my tank basically my ladder is behind it and my heater is burried behind it too so all you see is the wire from the top edge of my tank (it's open top) Looks great and when my java moss finally grows up, it'll look terrific.


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## Dapple (Dec 14, 2003)

I put mine on the side, I like to watch the bubbles  I find it rather fascinating, but then again I'm fairly easily amused...


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

It is definitely addictive to guess which bubble wins the race  

Perhaps it will fit behind a rock. 

"Mountainscape with alien powerplant" (That's what I call my aquascape if it doesn't fit)


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## AJ_Wave (Jan 12, 2004)

> "Mountainscape with alien powerplant" (That's what I call my aquascape if it doesn't fit)


Post a picture of your tank showing the ladder if you don't mind. I don't even see it when I click you're 10gal signature link.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Installed it only a few days ago... before I was running the CO2 into the AC Mini inlet. Just want to see if there is a big change in CO2 levels.


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## hubbahubbahehe (Sep 13, 2003)

the ladder is finally working great...now i love it.... you guys were right and it's so fun to watch the bubble get smaller and smaller heheheh..it's a co2 factory line!!! i love it!!! heck, i bet you could still use it forwith pressurized co2 and it would still be efficient


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## Kaji1 (Dec 18, 2003)

I use it with my pressurized works just fine


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## oazanki (Jan 5, 2004)

Hubba where did you order yours from?


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## hubbahubbahehe (Sep 13, 2003)

supsup oazanki. i got if from plantgeek.net. 9 dollars from Curt Dunaway aka PlantGeek. He's a real cool dude. Real nice, real helpful. Go ahead and buy from him. You can't beat his prices.


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## plantastic28 (Dec 22, 2003)

Sorry to drag this back up again, but I was wondering if you guys get your bubbles completely dissolved at the end of the ladder.

Mine get real small but never completely dissolve before escaping the ladder. I have the ladder at the bottom of the side wall of my tank. Just curious if others have the same experience.


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## hubbahubbahehe (Sep 13, 2003)

yea, it's not all co2...some of it is air gases that is there when you close up the 2 litter bottle.


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## plantastic28 (Dec 22, 2003)

I am using pressurized now with the ladder, and I still get a real small bubble escaping at the end of the ladder.


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## hubbahubbahehe (Sep 13, 2003)

ok nevermind.... i guess it's just not effective enough for pressurized then.


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## plantastic28 (Dec 22, 2003)

HHHH,

Do your bubbles get completely dissolved?


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## hubbahubbahehe (Sep 13, 2003)

no it gets real small though,..


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## anonapersona (Oct 19, 2002)

If the diameter of the bubble is reduced to *25%* of the original, the volume is reduced to *1.5%* of the original. 

That's pretty good. Your bubbles may actually be smaller than 25% of the original, if so you are approaching 100% absorbtion.


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## malkore (Nov 3, 2003)

Yes, you should still see tiny bubbles at the top, and anonapersona's right, that you're getting real close to 100% absorption.


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## 2la (Aug 18, 2002)

A tip: Smaller bubbles at the outset = greater efficiency. Your LFS should have miniature tubing; figure out a way to hook up a short segment to your ladder, and you're golden. I'm using a rubber band to hold it in place until my pea brain can figure out a more aesthetically pleasing solution...


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## Gomer (Aug 14, 2003)

can;t you just shove the miniture tube inside the normal tube (assumine a snug fit)..then shove the normal tube into the ladder? I dont have a ladder, so I am kinda guessing htis


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## 2la (Aug 18, 2002)

It's not a snug fit. What I'd like to do is take the coupler and cut or sand off one side of the collar in the middle. That should allow me to insert the coupler into the end of the bracket that holds the regular tubing in place (though go figure I can't remember what I did with the bracket... :roll: ). The opening of the coupler is even smaller than the opening of the mini tubing.


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## Gomer (Aug 14, 2003)

how about you use a little silicone to plug up MOST of the tubing hole


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

I have seen adapters for mini tubing to normal tubing. I'm pretty sure that most LFS should carry this item.


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## AJ_Wave (Jan 12, 2004)

Mine is starting to work. Been in the tank for about 5 days now. Only problem I am having is the bubble is getting "caught" about half way up the ladder. Next bubble gets "caught" on that one... this goes on for about 4-5 bubbles before the larger bubble moves up the ladder and finally straight up to the surface.

I have noticed my bubbles are getting smaller but I don't think mine it working quite as is should. I'm using the Hagen CO2 canister with it, not a DIY soda bottle.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

That bubbles getting caught thing went away after about a day for me. Maybe take a brush and clean that area, could be that there is something that doesn't allow the biofilm to grow.

The problem with just reducing the diameter of the airline is that you build up pressure, and then you get a bunch of bubbles, then a while nothing, then again a bunch of bubbles etc. Would be better to use mini tubing all the way, to reduce the effective volume in the tubing.

The mini tubing that is sold here comes in expensive little packages, with adapters included! But you can buy the adapters seperately, too.


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## 2la (Aug 18, 2002)

Wasserpest said:


> The problem with just reducing the diameter of the airline is that you build up pressure, and then you get a bunch of bubbles, then a while nothing, then again a bunch of bubbles etc. Would be better to use mini tubing all the way, to reduce the effective volume in the tubing.


What you describe never actually happens. The opening is not so small that there's any pressure build-up. The needle valve takes care of that on a pressurized system, and a DIY reactor should have no problems pushing gas through at a steady rate. Same story as if you put a wooden airstone at the end of the line. A staccadic bubble stream results when you insert a line into the intake of a filter, where there's a tug-of-war between the filter inlet's negative pressure, gravity associated with the upward orientation of the tubing, and water tension.


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## hubbahubbahehe (Sep 13, 2003)

i too, was thinking of using silicone to make the hole smaller, that would produce smaller bubbles..


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

2la said:


> What you describe never actually happens. The opening is not so small that there's any pressure build-up.


Thank you for setting me straight. I am glad I am the only person that has experienced this, and thought it would be worth sharing.
:roll:


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## hubbahubbahehe (Sep 13, 2003)

wasserpest i've experienced it before while using an airstone...


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## 2la (Aug 18, 2002)

Okay, so it's never happened in _my_ experience. I thought you were just bringing up a concern and speculating--I think by the sight of your rolling eyes that you might have taken my explanation the wrong way, as I certainly wasn't trying to invalidate any actual experiences, yours or otherwise, Wasserpest. Of course, that begs the question of why it happens to you and not to me. Here's proof that it works for me:










My apologies for any misunderstanding.

2la


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## anonapersona (Oct 19, 2002)

Is it that when you buy the ladder only, you don't get that little tubing insert that lets the tubing hook into the ladder, with the reduced outlet that it has?


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## 2la (Aug 18, 2002)

No, it still comes with the tubing insert, which I earlier referred to as the "bracket" (can't find it anymore). The caliber of that insert is still large enough to accomodate the miniature tubing loosely (i.e., room to spare).


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## anonapersona (Oct 19, 2002)

Does the rigid tubing reallly make smaller bubbles? I thought I tried that along the way, just putting rigid tubing inside of the regular airline, when I was trying to stop the double-bubble problem. It didn't help then, but the mini airline connector you are talking about may be smaller still.


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## 2la (Aug 18, 2002)

I'm not sure which "rigid" tubing you're referring to, but yes, reducing the caliber of the tube does diminish the bubble size. You may also notice that I've cut the mini tubing off at an angle.


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