# Cichlids safe with plants



## deleted_user_16 (Jan 20, 2008)

dwarf cichlids like rams and apistod would do good with plants in a 30 gallon tank.


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## Blue Ridge Reef (Feb 10, 2008)

German rams and Bolivian rams are among the most popular, but I suspect any that don't grow too large can be managed if you allow the plants to get a good head start. Check out Travis' tank (here on these forums) that is full of herbivorous African cichlids!http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/photo-album/11730-planted-125g-african-cichlid-tank-56k.html


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Hiya Blue, good to see ya!


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## Riley (Jan 24, 2006)

West African cichlids would work also (Pelvicachromis sp.)...Apistogramma sp. are always a good choice. Mikrogeophagus sp. (Blue Rams and Bollivian Rams) some of the dwarf Crenicichla sp. would work also if you want to use bigger tetras that would not get eaten.


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## Steve Z (Jul 5, 2007)

could I put the new world and american cichlids with the African cichlid and are they plant safe


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## Steve Z (Jul 5, 2007)

could I put in carnvores or would they tear up my plants


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## Steve Z (Jul 5, 2007)

could you give me the names of some websites you buy your fish and plants from


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## deleted_user_16 (Jan 20, 2008)

no, I would not recommend mixing, either go to aquabid.com and look up apistos, twofishguyz.com.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

New world cichlids and African cichlids need just about opposite extreme in water parameters, so are not suitable for the same tank.

I'd recommend www.tropicalresources.net 's cichlid forum to get some recommendations for African cichlids.

The S&S here is a great place to get plants, or www.AquaBotanic.com 

You really need to do your HW before getting either New World or African cichlids- they are fish with very specific sets of needs.


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## deleted_user_16 (Jan 20, 2008)

That's exactly what I am doing with my *setup* (that I keep changing!). I'm doing my HW!!!!


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## metageologist (Jan 10, 2008)

i keep electric yellow cichlids (_Labidochromis caeruleus) _in my planted tank. my plants are doing great in my liquid rock water.


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## intermediate_noob (Jan 23, 2007)

For cichlids I would highly recommend mainlycichlids.com. They are awesome.


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## Blue Ridge Reef (Feb 10, 2008)

Steve Z said:


> could you give me the names of some websites you buy your fish and plants from


I've bought from Oddball.com, and am pleased overall with their stock. But you can save a ton if you can get your local fish store to special-order them for you. Shipping was thirty bucks for my most recent small shipment Internet purchase, and the fish _aren't_ always cheaper. I'm an LFS owner, and will add on special orders for 20% over cost *if *the buyer picks it up the same day, straight out of the box (I don't have to store it in my tanks/etc.). I've asked a few box stores before I started my own business (PetSmart most recently) if they could special order for me -and I was buying 50 ottos, but it was against their policy. I would literally have had to pay the full 2.49 per ottocinclus! Local privately-owned stores, however, should be happy to add on to their next order for a nominal charge.


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## NeverEndingNinja (Jan 4, 2008)

Cleithracara maronii, apistogramma sp., mikrogeophagus sp., pelviachromis sp., pseudocrenilabrus multicolor victoriae to name a few.


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## Steve Z (Jul 5, 2007)

what is HW


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

sorry- HomeWork  aka- research individual species well before purchase.


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## Steve Z (Jul 5, 2007)

will aggressive fish like the lab be alright for a planted tank?


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## HiPeople (Mar 22, 2008)

well, I hear aggressive african species tear up plants, but a ssafe plant would be anubias.


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## Steve Z (Jul 5, 2007)

most of the cichlids need about 50g would I be able to put them in to a 30g or would they fight to much?
and would I be able to put aggressive cichlids with peaceful cichlids?


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## DaveS (Mar 2, 2008)

Steve Z said:


> will aggressive fish like the lab be alright for a planted tank?


Are you talking yellow labs? If so, they are far from aggressive and do quite well in planted tanks. If you don't have a lot of rocky hiding areas I wouldn't recommend putting more than one in the tank however. They won't bother your other fish, but males will try to establish dominance over other males, and pester females (literally) to death without adequate cover. I have had no problems keeping yellow labs in lower pH / soft water conditions as well.

Other choices that do well with plants (that I am keeping at this time) are Cichlasoma spilurum and steatocranus casaurius. Both are interesting fish and leave plants alone.

Dave


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## Steve Z (Jul 5, 2007)

it says yellow lab need up to 50g could I put one in a 30g?


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## Riley (Jan 24, 2006)

I wouldnt put a yellow lab in your planted tank. I would go with a nice pair of apistos such as Apistogramma. agassizi, A. borelli, or A. cacatouides. Those are all good beginner apistos, they will do great in a planted tank, relatively easy to breed, and will blow yellow labs away in terms of color and behavior.


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## Steve Z (Jul 5, 2007)

Riley said:


> I wouldnt put a yellow lab in your planted tank. I would go with a nice pair of apistos such as Apistogramma. agassizi, A. borelli, or A. cacatouides. Those are all good beginner apistos, they will do great in a planted tank, relatively easy to breed, and will blow yellow labs away in terms of color and behavior.


all thoso fish you named are small enough for a 30g ,but they are carnivores are you sure they are all right with plants?


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## rat49f6 (Jan 28, 2008)

i exclusively use www.cichlids.net/


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## DaveS (Mar 2, 2008)

Steve Z said:


> it says yellow lab need up to 50g could I put one in a 30g?


You probably could, but they really do seem to like a bit more room than that. I think the apisto recommendation is a great one. Those fish are almost begging to be placed in a nicely planted aquarium IMO.

Dave


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## Riley (Jan 24, 2006)

Steve Z said:


> all thoso fish you named are small enough for a 30g ,but they are carnivores are you sure they are all right with plants?


Yes sir.

I have a pair of Apisto. agassizi in my 29 gallon right now and they are doing great. I have kept apistos for many years....pairs in anything from a 10 gallon to a 55 gallon. Apistos do great with plants. Another benefit of the Apistos you can keep other fish with them such as tetras, cories, etc. With the yellow labs your pretty limited to what you can keep with them.


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## Steve Z (Jul 5, 2007)

the Apistogrammas are semi-aggressive are you sure you can keep them with tetras cories and other peaceful fish?


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## Riley (Jan 24, 2006)

Steve Z said:


> the Apistogrammas are semi-aggressive are you sure you can keep them with tetras cories and other peaceful fish?


Yup.

Tetras are commonly used as dither fish. Dither fish are fish that make the shy apistos feel more secure. 

Cories can be done with apistos. The only issue is that there is sometimes a confrontation, but not usually. They cories might eat fry. 

The only time I have ever had an issue with apisto aggression is during breeding. I have only lost one tetra as a result. They are generally a very peaceful fish.


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## Steve Z (Jul 5, 2007)

could I keep different speices of Apistogtammas be together


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## Steve Z (Jul 5, 2007)

which of these fish would be the best for a planted tank

Apistogramma, rams,mbuna,agassizi, albino,kenyi, Ps denasoni, and electric yellow cichlids


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Best?

South American cichlids; rams or Apistos.

Like the soft water also preferred by most plants and rarely eat or dig up plants as many Africans will.

You shouldn't keep more than 1 pair in a 30gal though, IMO. You might get away with 2 pair of Apistos in a 30gal IF they are one of the smallest species AND the tank is so heavily planted that the pairs can't see each other.


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## Steve Z (Jul 5, 2007)

is the 1" per g true if so the rams are 3" and the Apistogrammas are 3 1/2" so a pair of each would take up about 13g so I would have only have 17g left


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## Riley (Jan 24, 2006)

I would go with a pair or trio of the Apistos. With that I have had success with a pair or trio of apistos, 12 tetras, and a clean up crew (ottos and amano shrimp) in a 30 gallon.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Also- if you go with Apistos, don't use the Cichlid Eco Complete you mentioned in another thread; Apistos prefer acidic water and lower hardness.


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## Steve Z (Jul 5, 2007)

if I put in a pair of Double Full Red Cockatoo cichlid(Apistogramma cacatuoides), a pair of German Gold Ram(Papilochromis ramirezi),a pair of Double Full Red Agassizi Cichlid(Apistogramma agassizi),and a pair of Brichardi Cichlid ,Albino(Neolamprologus brichardi)in my tank will they all get along amough each other and are they plant safe ? 

will the (Apistogramma Cacatuoides) fight with the (Apistogtamma agassizi)?

in. wise they will take up 27g could I put in a 5" electric yellow lab or would there not be enough room.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Nope not a chance. Lots of dead fish. That's all you'll end up with. Maybe one survivor.


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## mpodolan (Mar 27, 2007)

The inches per gallon rule is a very poor guide to use. Especially when dealing with potentially aggressive fish (or fish that produce lots of waste). No offense, but it seems that you have a lot of reading to do about keeping these types of fish. Try searching the net for some more basic info about the needs of the fish you want to keep. For example, here's a simple chart that I found by simply searching for "cichlid compatibility"
http://www.cichlidrecipe.com/cichlidchart/noflashchart.htm


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## Steve Z (Jul 5, 2007)

I thick I'll rather put in a clean up crew instead of the yellow lab 

how 'bout the other fish 

some suggestion on the clean up crew "pleace no snails I had a bad experience with them "


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Depends what cichlids you're talking about. You need to decide that before you'll be able to make any other decisions.

Synodontis cats are one of the few able to hold their own against African cichlids.


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## Steve Z (Jul 5, 2007)

mpodolan I try to use the table and site you told me about but just got cunfussed 

in what group do the fish up above go in??????????????


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## ingg (Jan 18, 2007)

You'll end up with the brichardis, they'll kill the rest. This seriously is not difficult to understand. Cichlids want a footprint. A territory. If you place too many in too small a place, they see each other as invading one another's territory, and they attack. Until someone is dead. Period. 

You really don't want to push the limits with cichlids, they are unforgiving of it and will kill each other. These aren't tetras. It is called conspecific aggression - they beat the tar out of similar looking fish that are seen as "invaders".

Pick one set. ONE set. Not multiple pairs, not multiple species, one set.

Many Apistogrammas are harem spawners and not paired spawners. There are dozens of species of Apistos, so if you go that way, find out if you are picking harem or pairing spawners - get a pair for pairs, a trio (one male, two female) for harem.

Rams are paired spawners. Rams are the only fish here I'd possibly suggest putting more than one pair of, they are by far the least aggressive of any cichlid I know of, with the possible exception of keyholes.

Apistos have relatively small territories, but it is more than one square foot. Rams are the only cichlids who'd do well in a planted tank that have a territory approaching anything as small as one square foot. (The other cichlid I know of with a territory this small is many of the shellies, but these are sand sifting diggers who like rock hard water and live in shells, and dig a LOT - not good for a planted tank.)

You have 3 square feet max. This means, two or more pairs of anything other than rams, odds are fighting and death is going to ensue - and it might happen even with Rams. Only way you get two pairs of Apistos to coexist well IMHO is if neither pair ever spawns, or you get extremely lucky and they nest at the extreme ends of the tank away from each other.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

^^^ You need to listen to that, Steve, and stop repeatedly asking the same questions hoping that someone will give you a different answer... that is solid advice. If you want to be successful with cichlids, you need to respect what they need and the way they behave with each other.


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## mpodolan (Mar 27, 2007)

Steve Z said:


> mpodolan I try to use the table and site you told me about but just got cunfussed
> 
> in what group do the fish up above go in??????????????


It was more of a suggestion/example of how there is lots of info out there to read. That was the first one that popped up. I would *strongly* agree with what ingg said above. It would sometimes be nice to be able to put all of these great looking fish together, but we must show restraint, for the health of our fish. Thus, it's our job to learn/research as much as we can and make the tough choices


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## ingg (Jan 18, 2007)

Rereading my post, I sound mean. It wasn't meant to be, but rather to hammer the point home.

It looks daunting, hundreds of species. It can be daunting, if setting up cichlid tanks... but you aren't.

So!

Take everything African. Pick out Pelvicachromis. throw the rest out, not good for planted tanks, or just too agressive for this small a tank, or both.

Take South americans. Throw 90% out as your tank is too small. You get left with Apistogrammas and Rams.

Realize that even the little cute looking ones you have left are still cichlids, who want territories, and get downright angry when others invade their space.

Pick one, and learn to love 'em. 

For first cichlids, I'd really recommend Apisto Borelli, Cacutoides, or maybe Aggassizzii, though I found Aggassizzii to be relatively aggressive in my 55g. I absolutely love my Pelvicachromis Teaniatus 'Nyete' pair, but they aren't really common to find. But, if you do mail order, Pevicachromis are simply awesome fish.


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## Riley (Jan 24, 2006)

I agree with ingg also. Go with EITHER a PAIR of Apisto. borelli or a TRIO of Apisto. agassizi or Apisto. cacatouides or a pair of rams if you want to go with South American. I would go with a pair of Pelvicachromis if you want to go with African. Cant decide? Do more research.


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## Steve Z (Jul 5, 2007)

so three apistogrammas and two rams is all I could put in so they have enough of room


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

No, Riley just told you- *either* a pair of rams (one male and one female) *or* a trio of Apistos (one male with 2 females). 

You _could_ put some Apistos in with rams- the Apistos might actually survive a day or two?

Apistos and rams are both South American cichilds, BTW- in another thread you just said that you want Africans???

As Riley also said- a pair of Kribs (Pelvicachromis) would probably be the best bet with African cichlids. 

Or maybe some Shellies.


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## Steve Z (Jul 5, 2007)

I'll go with the south american cichlids sence they are more suitable with plants


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## Steve Z (Jul 5, 2007)

so if I put a pair of ram they would take up the whole 30g


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

You could probably add a small school of tetras or other similar mid/topwater fish in with them. Small loaches would probably be OK too, as long as the rams and the loaches each had their own caves (the loaches would all share the same cave). You'd need to make sure the tank is pretty heavily planted so if the rams breed and get aggressive the other fish would have plenty of places to hide.


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## Steve Z (Jul 5, 2007)

so is the ram the only SA cichlid I could have in the 30g


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## Steve Z (Jul 5, 2007)

could I have some other SA cichlid with the rams or not?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Riley said:


> I agree with ingg also. Go with EITHER a PAIR of Apisto. borelli or a TRIO of Apisto. agassizi or Apisto. cacatouides or a pair of rams if you want to go with South American. ... Do more research.


^^^


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## Riley (Jan 24, 2006)

Alright....These are the fish your gonna put in your tank. I will give you a couple of options. 

PAIR (one male and one female) Rams Papiliochromis/Microgeophagus ramirezi 12 of some sort of tetras (cardinal, rummynose, serpae, etc) 4 Corydoras cats and 6 ottos.

TRIO (one male and two females) Apistogramma cacatouides or a agassizi 12 of some sort of tetras 4 Corydoras catfish and 6 ottos. 

TRUST ME these are killer assortments of fish for a planted tank. I have done these setups for years and the color and activity still amuse me. 

If you want to go for Rift Lake Cichlids skip the whole plant option put a bunch of rocks in your tank, stack it to the top. Use sand for the substrate. Add 5 shelldwellers (Neolamp. brevis or occellatus) 6 Brichardi (Neolamprologus brichardi) and a Trio of calvus or compressiceps ( Altolamprologus calvus or compressiceps) If you really want some plants chuck some anubias in there. 

OR if your having that difficult of a time deciding what to do head down to the LFS and buy two or three tanks and do all the fish that you have previously mentioned. 

OR you can skip all our advice and chuck all these fish in the same tank and see alot of dead fish and money out the window. Your choice.


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## Steve Z (Jul 5, 2007)

I'll go with a pair of rams I'll put some tetras with them could I put in any other cummunity fish in there ?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Steve it gets a little frustrating when you ask a question that has been answered several times... it makes people reluctant to answer questions when it seems that you don't bother to read the answers?



> PAIR (one male and one female) Rams Papiliochromis/Microgeophagus ramirezi 12 of some sort of tetras (cardinal, rummynose, serpae, etc) 4 Corydoras cats and 6 ottos.


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

There are some additional ideas over @ cichlid forum in their "cookie cutter" set ups: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/cookie_cutter_29g.php



lauraleellbp said:


> You _could_ put some Apistos in with rams- the Apistos might actually survive a day or two?


This guy is obviously a bit underinformed and maybe a bit underclocked, but let's not exaggerate the other way. I've kept a pair of Bolivian Rams w/ a pair of Curviceps in a 30L for a long time...same for a pair of Bolivian Rams with a single Apisto.



lauraleellbp said:


> As Riley also said- a pair of Kribs (Pelvicachromis) would probably be the best bet with African cichlids.
> Or maybe some Shellies.


Let's be more specific here. What do we mean by African cichlids? Just mbuna? If so, then kribs and shellies are both bad ideas if you ask me (former due to water params, later due to indefensibility against mbuna aggression).


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## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

I have a Zebra Tilapia(_Tilapia buttikoferi_), a Red Zebra Cichlid(_Maylandia estherae_), a Ice Blue Zebra Cichlid(_Maylandia greshokei_), and an Electric Yellow Labido(_Labidochromis caeruleus_) in a 55g low light planted tank. The plants are _Anubias barteri, Crinum thianum, Echinodorus argentensis, Echinodorus cordifolia, Hygrophila polysperma _'Ceylon'. They have not been eaten or disturbed yet(the largest fish ius at 7 inches and that is the Zebra Tilapia).


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## Steve Z (Jul 5, 2007)

I read the anwser what I ment by cummunity fish was gourames, rainbows,rasboras,and so on

I read about the corydoras cats and the ottos I haven't decided if I'm go to get them yet so I didn't include them in the traed


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I think the issue is getting confused again- African or South American cichlids. The 2 really should not be mixed b/c they have specialized water parameter needs that are just about opposite of each other.

Steve most recently said that he's decided on South American.

IMO Riley gave a very good stocking recommendation for a 30gal with a pair of rams.

IMO otos would be OK but cory cats may end up beat up if the rams decide to spawn. I wouldn't personally keep cories with a pair of rams in less than a 55gal to be on the safe side- but I'll always advise to err on the side of caution with fish.

Rainbows would not be a good mix- they need more than a 30gal to stock a decent-sized school and give them swimming room, rasboras might be OK. If you go with gouramis I would just get a trio of dwarf gouramis.


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## Riley (Jan 24, 2006)

If you wanted to replace the tetras with rasboras that would be fine. 

IMO everyone tank is different. You could set up your 30 gallon with the fish I have suggested and you *might* be able to sneak a couple of gouramis in there. It depends on how heavily planted you are, and how often you do your water changes. 

What we are offering you here is a setup that will cause little problems in terms of this fish. These are tried and true fish that will get along in your tank.


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## Riley (Jan 24, 2006)

Your going to need ottos or a dwarf bristlenose pleco to take care of any algae issues you might have. They both work good for cleaning up excess food too.


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

Yes, Riley's suggested stockings look solid! :thumbsup: 



Steve Z said:


> I'll go with the south american cichlids sence they are more suitable with plants


West Africans are great too! If you can find some butterfly cichlids, go for it, they are great!



lauraleellbp said:


> I think the issue is getting confused again- African or South American cichlids. The 2 really should not be mixed b/c they have specialized water parameter needs that are just about opposite of each other.


African Rift Lake cichlids are hard water species. West African Riverine cichlids are largely softwater. Most South American species are soft water. Most Central American cichlids are moderately hard water. There is no generalization about "African" or "American" cichlids' water parameters (hardness, PH, etc).that holds true for all species. That was my point in my last post. Pet peeve of mine...Cichlidae is a very diverse family with many species all over the world with widely varying requirements.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Good points, Macclellan :thumbsup: I was rather overgeneralizing.


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## crabcake (Dec 19, 2007)

i don't know if anybody mentioned this already, but there are a few Central American species that might be good candidates. in contrast to the general siutations for African cichlids, which need very hard water, or South American species, which prefer very soft water inmany cases, CA's are less particular. most CA's are too big and aggressive for community/planted settings, but _Archocentrus_ species would be worth looking into. i have some _A. cutteri_ and they are great--really pretty and not too unruly. there are usually several _Archocentrus_ offeredon AquaBid.


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

I've got a pair of Archocentrus spirulus (very close relative of cutteri). They are total bulldozers. They may be great with certain plants, but I doubt they'd work with delicate stem plants and foreground plants.


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## Steve Z (Jul 5, 2007)

lauraleellbp said:


> You _could_ put some Apistos in with rams- the Apistos might actually survive a day or two?
> 
> I'm geting a little confused so based on lauraleelbp's post the rams are more agressive than the apistos on information that I read it said rams are peaceful and Apistos are simi-agressive????????????????


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Most rams are bigger than most apistos, and if a pair of rams spawn they can become very aggressive and territorial to protect their eggs and young.


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## ingg (Jan 18, 2007)

Sorry, you are mistaken here laural.

Only Bolivian Rams, _Microgeophagus altispinosa_, are larger than Apistos. I'd still give the aggression nod to any Apisto over even Bolivians myself.

German Rams, _Mikrogeophagus ramirezi_ , which is probably what everyone (I know me, at least) has been referring to, are not larger than apistos, are smaller than most apistos, and are far less aggressive than almost any apisto. In comparison to almost any cichlid except maybe keyholes, rams are almost pathetically non-aggressive when spawning in comparison - in my experience.

I'd give german rams about 48 hours to live with spawning apistos. Heck, I had a male aggassizzii - who had no mate!!! - get mad at a male ram trying to guard a spawning spot, and kill the ram over it. I cannot see german rams killing apistos.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I guess I've only seen the tiny Apistos available in LFSs, and not many of those... and they were always dwarfed and cowed by the rams! I rarely see German rams in LFSs- so you're right, I was basing this on Bolivian.

I still wouldn't mix any of them in a 30gal, however.


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## Steve Z (Jul 5, 2007)

so for I decicded to keep a pair of the german blue rams, 12 tetras, a trio of gourimes,a pair of singapore flower shrimp,and two bristlenose plecos

would that be alright?


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## Ozymandias (Jan 17, 2008)

The bristlenose probably would be unnecessary if you go with oto cats instead (there smaller and probably won't have an issue with the blue rams)


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## Steve Z (Jul 5, 2007)

if I swiched the pair of bristlenose placos for a pair of ottos .would that be allright then 

could I add a pair of amanos without any problem


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## Ozymandias (Jan 17, 2008)

probably want more than a pare there vary small and there should be at least 3.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

You could easily switch out the BN plecos with 4-5 otos, plus still have room for shrimp.

You might want to just try one or two Amanos and make sure the rams don't eat them before adding more... but you should easily be able to add 4-5 Amanos if the rams leave them alone.

IMO this looks like a good stocking list for a 30gal! roud:


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## Steve Z (Jul 5, 2007)

In which order should I buy the fish all at ounce or smallest to biggest?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

You need to make sure to cycle your tank before adding any fish. Do you know how to do that?


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## Steve Z (Jul 5, 2007)

I had my tank set up sence last year and had 4 tetras and a plant in there to help it cycle all my water parameters are pretty stable now and my fish and plant are really healthy

so my tank is cycled:thumbsup:


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Good deal, then. Working with an established tank will definitely let you add the smaller more delicate fish first before the bigger, territorial fish.

You should probably still just stock a few fish at a time so that you don't get a mini-cycle.

Are you just adding to your existing school of tetras? If so, then I would add the rest of the tetras first. 

Wait at least a few days (a week would be safer) then add the otos, then the gouramis, then the shrimp, then rams. Drip-acclimating all these fish would be a good idea.

So IMO this would be the order:

tetras
otos
gouramis
shrimp
rams


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## Steve Z (Jul 5, 2007)

I guess I'll get all those fish that I wanted when I get a bigger tank 

Thanks for all help and criticism:icon_wink 
I'll update you as I put in the fish and ask for :help: if I have any problems:hihi:


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## Riley (Jan 24, 2006)

I agree.

The order in which you should stock the fish looks good.


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## Steve Z (Jul 5, 2007)

I have a quick question will different species of tetras school together?
(to be more specific neons and rummynoses)


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## Riley (Jan 24, 2006)

Cardinals and rummys look pretty good together....they really dont school together in my experience though.


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## RAGEo2 (Apr 4, 2007)

*My opinion.*

I hate to jump in at the very end or even throw another wrench in the mix but I keep.

19 Neons
20 Rasboras
4 German Rams
4 Bolivian Rams
2 Triple red Apistos
1 Betta (Wifes)
10 Ghost Shrimp
3 Plecos 

In a mild planted 125g tank

I would recommend Rasboras over any other schooling fish. They keep to themselves and no one is fast enough to harass them. 

Neons are very fragile in any spikes of water chemistry. You will know when the water is bad, trust me! They have been squabbling for the last 2 weeks, maybe they too are trying to pair off.?.?


I have Bolivian parents with brew at the moment and they are fierce parents. They easily control all the fish in the tank. Plecos are they worst enemy at the moment.

My triple red female is a warrior though. She may be only have the size but she holds down her corner very well. The male is fairly tame in comparison. 

The German Rams are fairly more aggressive then the Bolivians even though they to are smaller in size. The only time I see them run is from the Bolivian parents when they get to close to the brew.

The Rasboras are in their own world all together.

The Betta loves (playing) harassing the fish but he is having a hard time this month since most of the fish are in spawning mode and aren't in the mood to play chicken.

The shrimps are all over and never bother anyone.roud: 

Good luck!!!


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## madbreeze (May 21, 2006)

i recommend keyhole cichlids. they are easy to care for and not very aggressive, but still interesting fish if they are happy.


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## Steve Z (Jul 5, 2007)

thanks for the help


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## Steve Z (Jul 5, 2007)

on some of mine new neon tetras their fins have pieces missing and are ripped and the red color is very dull ,but the blue is really bright


Do you now what could be causing the dull colors b/c I feed then quite well, my ,water parameters are all good ,and I had them in the tank for about two weeks

is the fin thing caused by some kind of fungus?
all my fish are tetras so far and they're pretty peaceful and I haven't seen them pick on each other


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Did you quarantine them before adding them to the tank?

When you say your water parameters are "good," what are the actual readings; ammonia, nitrItes, nitrAtes, pH, kH, gH? Are these tetras in a tank with cichlid substrate?

How long have you had the tetras, and did they look better when you first got them?


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## Steve Z (Jul 5, 2007)

My ammonia is 0 , nitrites are0 , Ph is 7.4 , Gh is 12degrees was 5 yesterday:eek5: 
and I don't have a test kit for nitrates and mine Kh kit is working wrong

my substrate is Eco-Complete Plant Substrate 
like I said above I had them for about two weeks
they were in worse shape when I got them 
The Gh rise was probably caused by the medication I added two days ago " I'll be changing 25% of my water today o tomorrow "


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## fishscale (May 29, 2007)

What else is in the tank?


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## Steve Z (Jul 5, 2007)

Just a Radican Sword for now


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## Steve Z (Jul 5, 2007)

well after I treated the tank with some fish protector and fungus killer one darn fish died and the other got better


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Those 2 medications shouldn't cause the dramatic fluctuations in your carbonate hardness though- what else is in the tank as far as rocks, etc? Just water parameter changes that dramatic are enough to kill sensitive fish like tetras.

How often and how much water are you changing regularly during PWC (partial water changes)?

How long did you treat the tank with medications, did you follow the instructions with the meds?


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## Steve Z (Jul 5, 2007)

I just have substrate ,the plant, and the tetras in there right now 
The med. is just one and I follow directions 
I do water changes of 15% water change every or two week


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I would get your water parameter results verified by your LFS- something's not right; either your tests aren't working properly or there's something seriously amiss in your tank- those fluctuations don't make sense based on the info given so far?


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## Steve Z (Jul 5, 2007)

I retested my Gh and It read !0 degrees again


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

is that 10 or 0?


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## Steve Z (Jul 5, 2007)

10, sorry I accidentally make the 1 an !


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## Steve Z (Jul 5, 2007)

I got everything to a good spot I just did some bigger water changes for a few months

thank for the help anyway


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## Steve Z (Jul 5, 2007)

I been really busy here for the last few months so I haven't updated you on my tank for a wile 

so far I got all the tetras, got my cleaning crew, got the gourmis, bought a couple pieces of drift wood,and still have only one plant

right now I'm building my canopy and stand for the tank, and than I'll order all my plants

after the plants and some rock I'll get the rams!

I'll post some pictures as soon as I can


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