# Yellow leaves on a Java Fern?



## domnatr6 (Apr 6, 2018)

Hoping to get some help! I've been a long time lurker here in these forums after about 2 years of growing plants and hoping to achieve the perfect planted tank paradise. During these 2 years I've taken mostly a shotgun approach of fertilization which seemed to work fairly good for my first year. I had really beautiful green growth, plants that would on a regular basis grow too big and I'd have to remove and throw a lot of it away. Now in my second year I've struggled and lost a LOT of plants. I finally decided to get serious and educate myself on a proper fertilization method to get sustainable growth and long term healthy plants. 

A few need to knows below:

55 gal tank
42" Finnex Planted+ light
pressurized CO2 at a little over 1 BPS
Have been fertilizing using the PPS PRO method for three weeks now. 

So far in my other tanks I've seeing VERY good results. Plants are greener than they have been before and I'm seeing new growth everywhere. The one issue I'm having now are in the attached pictures. A Java Fern that used to be a very healthy plant and is now recovering is producing lots of new shoots, but the leaves unfurl to yellow leaves. I've got about 7 of these on separate rhizomes and they all look alike. I'm not seeing any of the budding leaves that come from the tips of the older growth. These are shoots that developed from the rhizome and unfurled into a reddish yellow leaf.

My question to the experts here is: Is this normal? What am I doing wrong and how do I grow green leaves? 

Thank you for any and all assistance!


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

The most qualified is @Seattle_Aquarist , I am sure he could help. 
How often and how much are you dosing? Any water changes? Have the water source parameters changed since you had good growth?


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## domnatr6 (Apr 6, 2018)

So PPS PRO is a daily dose of Macro and Micros. Details here: Our PPS-Pro Fertilizer Pack ? Just Mix & Dose ? Planted Tank Blog

So I'm dosing based on the attached instructions. Macros 1Ml per gal (5.5 in the 55 gal) and Micros 11 drops. Thanks for the help and let me know if I need to clarify anything.

Edit: Sorry early morning and reread your post. So I'm doing water changes at about 50-70% every two weeks. Water parameters have not changed. Standard central Texas liquid rock water out of a limestone aquifer.


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

Tap:
GH ?
KH ?

Aquarium:
pH ?
CO2 24/7 ?


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

Since you are so close, I suspect the tap has lots of GH/KH and plenty of calcium. Not using softened water, I assume? I'm in the north end of Austin and we get plenty of those items, right? 
I would agree that I would look at nutrients as a problem but I might also ask about the planting. I find my Java does best when not actually planted but stuck to things like rock or wood where it then often does crawl/sprawl out across the sub. Any chance it is simply too deep? 
This is a large group of diagrams of various deficiencies which i often use to sort through these things> Maybe one to sort through for the things you are seeing?
https://www.google.com/search?q=aqu...hUE04MKHWesDrsQ9QEIZzAH#imgrc=Vn4aQwqnj0DI2M:


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## domnatr6 (Apr 6, 2018)

So I'll have to give you a specific GH/KH measurement later. As the last post stated, central Texas has pretty hard water so the GH and KH are always sky high. PH is also naturally hight near 8. 

For the CO2 it's turned off with the lights.

The water is not softened. The ferns are not in the substrate and are attached to driftwood.

Looking at those charts it sure does look like iron deficiency. Should I up the iron dose/micros or should I dose straight Seachem iron? I do have an iron test kit I can measure the levels with if needed.


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

Good, if there is some surface movement or aeration then I would leave CO2 24/7 on, the rate of ~1 bps is perfect. The reason is to have pH lower than the tap’s 8 for the micros to be more and longer available to plants. 

Change the solution #2 micros dosing from 11 drops to 5 ml, both solutions the same quantity. This will add 0.1 ppm Fe daily. I wouldn’t dose extra Fe product because that would create other trace element deficiencies, the ratios are important. 

It appears you have lots of Ca but maybe not Mg. The solution #1 macros Mg addition is probably not enough in terms of Ca : Mg ratio. I would start dosing the new micros now and see what happens in two weeks’ time or so. Please let us know how it goes, thanks.


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

domnatr6 said:


> So I'll have to give you a specific GH/KH measurement later. As the last post stated, central Texas has pretty hard water so the GH and KH are always sky high. PH is also naturally hight near 8.
> 
> For the CO2 it's turned off with the lights.
> 
> ...


One way to know that a guy has hard water? It's almost impossible to take a picture without some type of deposit on the glass. I've almost given up on clearing them and now just call them "lace decorations"! 
>

On the lack of iron question, it can be thatit is not just a lack of iron but that the iron may be there but due to the other things in the water, the plant may not be able to take in and use the iron. Just any number of things to mess with our minds and I am not the chemical guy to begin to explain it. Just something that I am aware of as I work through adding or changing the ferts. I like to use dry ferts as it does let me add a specific item cheaply without throwing 2-3 others in at the same time.


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## domnatr6 (Apr 6, 2018)

Excellent information here! Starting tomorrow 4/9/18 I'll up the Micros to 5ml and will follow up in two weeks.

The part that baffles me is the other aquarium that is loaded with plants and has a lot of new growth doesn't exhibit the issues like these ferns in this tank.

Thanks for all the help.


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## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

I'm going to toss out an alternate theory, but before I do, note that 1 bps is pretty low in a 55. You probably aren't adding much in the way of CO2. Might be good to check pH before CO2 on and pH right before CO2 off just to see how much of a drop you are actually getting.

Yellowing leaves plus turning red can also be an indicator of severe nitrogen deficiency. Also, is it possible flow around the fern is low?

Of other note, pH above 7.5 makes EDTA chelated Fe (like found in CSM+B) almost completely unavailable. CO2 may be bring your pH low enough, but it's worth checking. If not, consider Ferrous gluconate. Also, Mg facilitates the use of Fe, so adding more could still be helpful if that is inducing an Fe deficiency.


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## domnatr6 (Apr 6, 2018)

So I know it's a few days prior to two weeks but since I'll be tied up this weekend I thought I'd update the thread while I have time. So the plants have gotten greener with the new dosing recommendation of 5ML of Plantex per day, but algae is out of control. Having to scrape the glass weekly. Old growth is greener and new growth is green and all leaves look healthy. I'll follow up with new pictures this weekend.

Any suggestions? Should I just dose with the Seachem Iron and stick with the 11 drops of Plantex? If so, how much of a daily dose?


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

domnatr6 said:


> The part that baffles me is the other aquarium that is loaded with plants and has a lot of new growth doesn't exhibit the issues like these ferns in this tank.


Same light energy on the other aquariums?

Ok, with the higher trace element addition the new growth is now green and less deformed. Water changes are needed every week 50% until algae slows down. Also, at every water change add MgSO4 to 5 ppm Mg per new water, 5 grams per 25 gallons. This will help when Ca is so high. 

Do we know aquarium pH and KH to calculate CO2?


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## domnatr6 (Apr 6, 2018)

Edward said:


> Same light energy on the other aquariums?


Yes actually, same fixture only the next size down to accommodate the smaller aquarium. Same photo period as well. As for the PH, I did a dip stick and it was close to 8. Bought a digital PH meter and apparently it needs to be calibrated because the reading I got off of it initially made no sense.

Also, how do I calculate the KH of the water?


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

https://sites.google.com/site/aquaticplantfertilizer/home/co2-injection


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## domnatr6 (Apr 6, 2018)

Ok, got a proper PH and KH test kit.

PH= 7.8+ (highest test would go is 7.8)
KH= 250.6

I've changed the water today, is it still recommended to add 10 grams of MgSO4 to the 55 gal tank? Any further advise now that values are known? 

Thanks for the continuing assistance!

CDM


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## domnatr6 (Apr 6, 2018)

Updated pics with new growth


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

How do I convert between KH ppm as CaCO3 and dKH?
Aquarium:
dKH = 250.6 ppm KH / 17.86
dKH = 14 

How to test for CO2 levels? Table 3, KH pH CO2 Relationship.
You need to increase CO2 to get at least 7.5 pH.
@ 14 dKH
7.5 pH … 13 ppm CO2
7.4 pH … 17 ppm CO2
7.3 pH … 21 ppm CO2
7.2 pH … 27 ppm CO2

MgSO4 need to be added whenever water change is done. The concentration should be 5 ppm Mg per new water quantity only. Example, 5 grams of MgSO4 in 25 gallons adds 5 ppm of Mg.


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## domnatr6 (Apr 6, 2018)

Got it! I'll up the CO2. Thanks for the clarification on the MgSO4. Will report back in a week or two.


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## domnatr6 (Apr 6, 2018)

Was thinking about this thread tonight and thought I'd post an updated photo. I'd say a slight improvement over where I began. Thank you to the experts here that helped me achieve this.


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## pauld738 (Jan 4, 2019)

Lol! That made me laugh.

Awesome update and love the jungle.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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