# ADA 90P Iwagumi first attempt



## F22 (Sep 21, 2008)

thats gonna look super crazy


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## vtkid (Jan 5, 2009)

that is nice big tank you have to work with there


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## skiboarder72 (Oct 13, 2006)

awesome setup! looking forward to this all grown up


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Cool stuff. I envy your stones. That's a pretty good vortex you got going there, too. I can never get mine that good.
Awesome setup as a whole. :thumbsup:


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## agutt (Oct 28, 2008)

Wow that vortex is crazy!

I have been using CAL lilly pipes and have been thinking about switching to ADA... How do you think these compare to them (if you have ever used the ADA ones)/why did you choose Aquaticmagic? Also how is the construction on those pipes??


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## mgdmirage (Mar 30, 2009)

Wow that beautiful already!


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Welcome to the forum!

Nice setup - this will be a nice one when filled in. Clean & simple.

If I may interject on the Aquatic Magic/Flo Lily pipes, IMO they're the nicest knock-offs out there. Nice thick glass. The vortex is that intense because the outflow pressure is slightly increased due to the fact that the Rena's 17mm in/outs have been reduced to 13mm. Even with my little xp1 the vortex is pretty powerful with my AQM/Flo pipe.

Nice job! This is one to watch!


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## Retzius (Jul 25, 2009)

Thanks for all the compliments guys, so I guess it wasnt too bad for first timer . 

Yeah, I got pretty lucky on those stones. 

I chose the aquatic magic lily pipes because of the shape of the outflow, price, and the fact that they have two suction cups. I am sure cal aqua's lily pipes are probably better even though I have never seen them but I couldn't justify spending that much. Its glass and I figure I would just get another set of lily pipes at cal aqua's price. 

I cant wait for it to fill in, its still a bit cloudy but hopefully it clears up in the coming days.

Regarding the vortex, roybot gives an excellent explanation. Basically my filter is big enough to produce that nice big vortex. The closer the lily pipe gets to the surface, the greater the vortex. I was a bit skeptical about the surface skimming but I am impressed. 

The bad thing about these lily pipes is that they came with a hairline scratch, not noticeable, but I contacted aquatic magic and was told I should receive new ones.


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## Francis Xavier (Oct 8, 2008)

For a first time Iwagumi, it's not bad. My gut feeling is that the beauty of the stones you have isn't fully utilized, due to placement, but again, for a first time it's a decent aquascape. If you would like some constructive criticisms, I'd be happy to provide them. Outside of that, keep up the Iwagumi practice and do some research on Iwagumi design principles (I have an article link in my signature). The first tank is always a great tool to use to learn about plant and rock placement, growth etc firsthand.


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## Retzius (Jul 25, 2009)

Francis Xavier said:


> For a first time Iwagumi, it's not bad. My gut feeling is that the beauty of the stones you have isn't fully utilized, due to placement, but again, for a first time it's a decent aquascape. If you would like some constructive criticisms, I'd be happy to provide them. Outside of that, keep up the Iwagumi practice and do some research on Iwagumi design principles (I have an article link in my signature). The first tank is always a great tool to use to learn about plant and rock placement, growth etc firsthand.


Hi Francis, 

I am definitely open to criticism, let me know what you dont like and butcher it up! . I honestly feel I need more stones, at least one or two bigger ones. Thanks.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

I meant to ask - what color temp/brand bulbs are you running in that sweet ATI?


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## Francis Xavier (Oct 8, 2008)

Good attitude! My first impressions of things that stand out the most are basically that the focal attention seems to be right down the center due to the big gap in between the stones. I find myself staring at the back wall almost as much or more so than the actual scape itself. The "V" design isn't a bad way to go, but just basically contributes to a 'generic' Iwagumi feel - which, don't get me wrong, is a lot better than it just looking bad. I have to admit my first reaction when I saw a reef tank guy making an Iwagumi was "oh god, it's going to be rock wall!" And I'm very glad that that isn't the case - it looks like you've put at least a little thought into the layout.

As far as the stones themselves - it's difficult to pick a main stone, it seems that the one on the right side is intended as the main stone, but isn't quite emphasized enough to fulfill that purpose. While the stones surrounding them seem kind of haphazardly laid down - too many of them are going the same direction in the same position (i.e. most are horizontal), which kind of takes away from their impact in general. Which as a result, makes the stones that do have angles to them look out of place, as if they're angled just for the sake of being angled. Overall there isn't a whole lot of transition to draw your eye from point A to point B. It's kind of difficult to pinpoint precisely what is throwing it off, I think a lot of it has to do with the gaps in between the stones (too much space between some, not enough between others), and that the main stone and main supporting stones need to be larger.

At this point, it would probably be too much effort than it's worth to rescape the tank - it's very hard to rescape an Iwagumi with wet soil and a filled aquarium. However, like I said, grow it out, experiment with plant growth and Iwagumi stone layout (maybe practice with some stones in some sand for basic principles), then in a few months when you're satisfied with what you've learned start thinking of a rescape.

Edit - More stones isn't necessarily the answer, it's more about spacing and transition between stones and how they're laid out than number of stones - remember you want to maintain an odd number of stones, as well as an odd number of plants (for that reason i'd recommend finding a nice accent plant to ease the transition between HC and HG)


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## Retzius (Jul 25, 2009)

Wow, very nice review, Francis. Thanks for analyzing my scape. I do agree that the stones need to be bigger. I purposely made the slope higher to make the stones feel bigger but I think I still fell a little short. 

As for the gaps, they were made purposefully as well to allow plants to grow and fill in. Throughout the scaping I felt I need more stones because I felt limited with the stones. I was thinking of adding Helanthium tellenum to the center of the V in the back and making it curve towards the bigger slope in front of the big rock. I might use Blyxa as well lemme know what plants you would suggest. Obviously, I am going with HC as foreground, I may remove the "belem" as it may be too short. Thanks again.


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## Retzius (Jul 25, 2009)

roybot73 said:


> I meant to ask - what color temp/brand bulbs are you running in that sweet ATI?


Hey roybot, I am running giesemann aquaflora, gieseman midday, and two UV lighting 10k aquasuns. Thanks.


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## Retzius (Jul 25, 2009)

Can anybody suggest a photoperiod? Should I turn on the giesemann first or turn on the 10k bulbs, thanks.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

I don't think having one or the other color coming on first makes any kind of difference like it would with a reef setup. Try starting with 6 hours & maybe raise the light up a bit more for the first month or so...

Are you doing frequent big water changes?


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## Retzius (Jul 25, 2009)

Yeah, I've done two 50% water changes and yesterday I got home late so I didnt do one. I will do one tonight. My water is still yellow/cloudy from the tannins of ada aquasoil. Hopefully it clears up soon, seems to clear every time I do a 50% water change. I am running the lights for 5-6 hrs only.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

I'm dealing with the same thing right now. I'm going to run some Purigen in the filter - I swear that stuff is magic!


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## Retzius (Jul 25, 2009)

I have carbon in mine and zeolite media, its been running for 4 days now. Should I change it? 

I ran my diatom filter thinking it would clear it up but it did absolutely nothing. Its the tannins from the aquasoil. I think carbon and purigen are our best bet.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

My carbon is doing absolutely nothing either. Carbon: out, Purigen: in.


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## Retzius (Jul 25, 2009)

My bet is that the carbon gets used up quickly because there is so much tannins in the water so it needs to get replaced frequently. Purigen probably has more cleaning capacity because the small granules provide more surface area for cleaning. I have some purigen, just not the "bag" to hold them. I need to buy that.


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## dxiong5 (Sep 28, 2008)

Wow, nice setup so far. The rocks and layout look awesome! The tank looks like it fits on the stand perfectly. I'll be looking forward to your updates!


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## Retzius (Jul 25, 2009)

dxiong5 said:


> Wow, nice setup so far. The rocks and layout look awesome! The tank looks like it fits on the stand perfectly. I'll be looking forward to your updates!



Thanks :smile: As soon as my foreground plant HC takes off and the tank clears from the ada aquasoil I will post an update.


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## Retzius (Jul 25, 2009)

Here is the update pic 
Looks like changing the filter pads and carbon media does make a difference.
*Before*









*After*


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Crystal :thumbsup:

How's your ammonia level?


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## EdTheEdge (Jan 25, 2007)

Lookin' good! roud:roud:


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

Looking good. I love the stones!


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## Retzius (Jul 25, 2009)

Thanks guys, I'm getting some more HC today or tomorrow so I will be busy planting. 

Roybot, I have not checked my ammonia. I guess I should check it, I will have to look to see if I have an ammonia test kit laying around somewhere.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

If you plant the HC one sprig at a time, it'll fill in a lot faster. It's a pain in the butt to do, but if you spend one Saturday morning doing it, it's well worth the effort.


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## Retzius (Jul 25, 2009)

Thanks Jeffrey, 

I just received a ridiculous amount of HC from a friend. I don't know if I will do one sprig at a time but I will try. Hopefully my hands don't go numb, ha!


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## Retzius (Jul 25, 2009)

Ok guys I am starting to see some green thin hair-like algae on the substrate and rocks. Please let me know what I can do to kill this algae off. Please advise.

Currently, this is what my husbandry involves,

5 hr photoperiod (all lights on)
High CO2, drop checker registers it as green-yellow.
minimal dosing (now, not dosing anything)
50% water changes, about 10 of them since I set up the tank two weeks ago.
Changed filter media two days ago. 
Tank is two weeks old.
Using DI water.
Added a floating stem plant today (dunno name, grows fast), will float wysteria tomorrow when it arrives.
Adding more HC tomorrow. 

Thanks!


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## Riverboa (Mar 18, 2009)

Hi Retzius, 

First of all, nice tank! Excellent stones, I think you've done a great job with them. 

From my experience, putting some stem plants (you don't have to plant them into the substrates) would take care of your algae issue. I have a very similar set up (ada 120P) with nothing but HC and HG. I float a bunch of stemmies from my other tank right from the beginning (see pictures), and never had any problem with algae. 










Good luck, 

Riverboa


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## Retzius (Jul 25, 2009)

Wow very nice tank Riverboa, 

I like your scape and plant selection, excellent stones too. I think that was my mistake in not floating any stem plants at the beginning of the set up. I finally got some floating plants yesterday and should have wysteria floating today. 

I just found out I am dealing with spirogyra which can be a pain, but its in its early stages so hopefully I can remove it quickly.


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## Riverboa (Mar 18, 2009)

Good luck with the algae issue, I am sure you'll oversome it. 

Don't mean to hijack your thread, but this is how your HC and HG combo would look like in a couple of months. One other thing I learnt was that HG would intrude into HC's territor, so if you don't want them to mix up, you might want to think about some partition to keep the HG runners from getting into the HC. 










-Riverboa


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

If it _is_ spirogyra (and you should hope it isn't), I found this article to be indispensable when I was battling it. 

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/algae/82226-spirogyra-algae-2.html#post792693

Above all, a reduced lighting period & _daily_ (as in - without fail  )water changes really seemed to make the biggest difference.


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## Retzius (Jul 25, 2009)

Riverboa said:


> Good luck with the algae issue, I am sure you'll oversome it.
> 
> Don't mean to hijack your thread, but this is how your HC and HG combo would look like in a couple of months. One other thing I learnt was that HG would intrude into HC's territor, so if you don't want them to mix up, you might want to think about some partition to keep the HG runners from getting into the HC.
> 
> ...


:eek5: Wow, fantastic tank! And dont worry about hijacking. I certainly hope I get there. All your plants look really healthy. For the midground I would suggest E. tennellus "micro", thats what I will do. I think it will give it a better transition than the glosso? When new shoots form they also turn red, providing a nice contrast if you are looking for that. Excellent tank nonetheless. Is that dwarf hair grass in the back, how did you get it so high if it is. Thanks. I was thinking of using E. Asicularis in my background or dwarf hair grass.


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## Retzius (Jul 25, 2009)

roybot73 said:


> If it _is_ spirogyra (and you should hope it isn't), I found this article to be indispensable when I was battling it.
> 
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/algae/82226-spirogyra-algae-2.html#post792693
> 
> Above all, a reduced lighting period & _daily_ (as in - without fail  )water changes really seemed to make the biggest difference.


 
I am 90% sure it is roybot, sux :frown:, as soon as I get home I am going to start nuking it with peroxide/excel amd do a water change. I delt with algae in reef tanks so I am confident I can overcome it.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Not to be a downer, but spriogyra is the reason I broke my 20 gallon down for good. Reef algae is cake Imo compared to this stuff. In reefs you can just throw a bunch of snails and crabs in there to eat the algae, and maybe raise Mg if you really need to, but IME, nothing eats spirogyra. I'm not sure why marineland promotes it so much for their biowheel filter (even though I've never noticed and spirogyra algae on a biowheel).
Stick to that article and keep the water changes up. I was almost able to get rid of it that way, but I got impatient. 
I'm sure you can do it


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## Retzius (Jul 25, 2009)

CL said:


> Not to be a downer, but spriogyra is the reason I broke my 20 gallon down for good. Reef algae is cake Imo compared to this stuff. In reefs you can just throw a bunch of snails and crabs in there to eat the algae, and maybe raise Mg if you really need to, but IME, nothing eats spirogyra. I'm not sure why marineland promotes it so much for their biowheel filter (even though I've never noticed and spirogyra algae on a biowheel).
> Stick to that article and keep the water changes up. I was almost able to get rid of it that way, but I got impatient.
> I'm sure you can do it


Thanks CL, I did read your posts on spirogyra and have to be honest, it did freak me out. I just nuked it with peroxide and will follow up with excel. Then I will do a 50-70% water change. Thanks for the encouraging words roud:


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## angelicodin (Dec 2, 2009)

Looking like a great tank. It's amazing how many talent people are on these forums.


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## Retzius (Jul 25, 2009)

angelicodin said:


> Looking like a great tank. It's amazing how many talent people are on these forums.


Thanks angelicon.


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## Retzius (Jul 25, 2009)

An update shot....I've added more plants, this includes more HC thanks to Bill, E. tennellus "micro" or Helanthium Tenellum thanks to Chris Rivera, and hair grass from my LFS (AW). Also, I have Anarchis ( i think) floating as well as water sprite to suck out the nutrients. 

My water parameters as of now are, 

Ammonia 0.5ppm
Nitrite 1ppm
Nitrate 5 ppm
Gh 3
CO2 high

I told myself I would not test but I had to check the ammonia levels, and because I have ada soil they are still high. I also added purigen in hopes of speeding up the yellowing and am dosing MicroBacter7, a bacterial supplement to speed up the cycle. I figured this wouldnt hurt since I already had it from using it in my reef and was surprised when I read it could be used for freshwater aquariums. 

I have been nuking the spirogyra for 3 days now with excel and peroxide and removed as much as I can. I have also been reading a lot on it. From reading, I think my approach will be to continue spot treating it and allow the plants to grow more. Once I feel they have gained a foothold, I am going to begin dark cycles. 

Another problem I corrected was my CO2 drop checker. Apparently the instructions say to use aquarium water with the ph indicator solution. I read on other forums how this was a big mistake and doing so could lead to false readings. Instead, a solution of 4dkh should be used with the ph indicator. So since the setup my CO2 has been reading high even though I had my reactor lowered to 3 bubbles/ten seconds. I think this is why my HC has been growing slow. :doh

So, I made my own 4dkh solution today and am using 3 bubbles/sec as my rate. Right now my drop checker is yellow (high) but this is where I want it to be. 

Lastly, there seems to be a lot of contradicting information regarding fertilization to a tank when setup. Some advocate dosing little to avoid algae and others say fertilizers don't cause algae (Tom Barr). Rather, CO2 can be the culprit depending on the amount of light. In my case, high light should have high CO2, something I was not running initially because of my mistake with the CO2 drop checker. 

So.... I will now keep 5 hrs of photoperiod, dose fertilizers, have high CO2, and once the HC gets established I will begin dark cycles. I will continue with water changes and spot treatments with excel/H2O2. I am sure my algae issues will be gone. 

Here is the pic as of today, note my water got a little cloudy again from planting more HC. Also, cleaned up my cabinet by going to the container store and bought some some ADA tweezers for the HC. I really like how the cabinet turned out, less mess. 

















Microbacter7
















Magnetic strip works well with my tools!


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## Matsu49 (Jan 1, 2008)

Wow looks good. I wish that my HC would grow in that fast.


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## Retzius (Jul 25, 2009)

Thanks Matsu, check out this update.


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## Retzius (Jul 25, 2009)

Update :lol

Well here is another update of my tanks progress...So far here is what I have done...

1. Added 2 flagfish (spirogyra)
2. Added 8 otocinclus (2 have died so far )
3. Added 2 zebra otos
4. Added 14 "blue" shrimp (1 death, down to 13)
5. Added purigen (cleared up my yellowing in 2 days, highly recommend for aquasoil)
6. Bought a pocket scale (The one I had was not sensitive enough)
7. Bought 3 scissors, curved, double bent, and straight from widgetsupply.com. Spent about 12 bucks for all 3!
8. Purposely let algae grow for shrimp and otos. :mrgreen:

I am very happy with the tanks progress thus far. I really want to thank everyone on this forum for all your help, especially the locals, Bill, Peren, & Todd who I have harassed with questions and plants! 

I plan to do my first trimming of HC now that I have received my scissors.

For pics I am using a Nikon D70 with kit lense and 105mm micro lense. The other previous photos have been shot with my g/fs point and shoot camera.

Pics.....

































































Scissors!
















Pocket scale with 100g calibration weight (bought from amazon)









Slope!
















Wild caught oto (excuse the no tail, its had a rough life)
















zebra oto
































Spirogyra destroyer doing his job
































This pic lead me to believe I might have rcs dyed blue! I also have one shrimp that is completely red. I didnt take a pic, couldnt find him.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Nice pics. The growth of the hc looks great.
That zebra oto is beautiful.
How is the spiro gyra battle doing?


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## Retzius (Jul 25, 2009)

CL said:


> Nice pics. The growth of the hc looks great.
> That zebra oto is beautiful.
> How is the spiro gyra battle doing?


Thanks CL its been a good learning curve. The flagfish are doing a really good job at handling the spiro. Its still not completely gone (about 80% gone) but I am running a 7-8 hr photoperiod now and the plants are winning. Once the HC grows more I will do a few dark cycles and that should be the end of it. I'm really happy with the tanks progress so far.


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## Retzius (Jul 25, 2009)

*Update for the New Year!*

Another update......

Since the last update my tank was proliferating with algae. I had issues with green dust algae all over the glass panels, stones, and HC. Also, my E. tenellus began growing short-hair algae on the blades. It was looking really fuzzy. I wish I took pics of the infestation but I never got around to it.

So...I began to go to war with my tank. I had Excel and Peroxide both on hand. So for two days in a row I blasted my tank with about 70ml of peroxide and 40ml of Excel. I really used a bunch of the stuff :shock. Then my tank was bubbling all over from the algae, I got scared for a while but no fish or shrimp died. 

The following day I repeated the same thing and started noticing some of the HC was looking burned and the glass panels were now brown instead of green from the dust algae. I figured I had killed most of it. 

Then I took off for the new year but before I left I dosed my ferts and cut the photoperiod to 5 hrs.

4 days later and I arrived to a tank with absolutely no algae and more plant growth :lol. I felt as if the "algae fairy" came in and cleaned my tank :laughing. It was weird. The H. tennellus had algae-free leaves and there was no dust algae on the glass panels. My spirogyra was also gone.

If I had to guess I think the peroxide and excel combination killed most of the algae. The reduced photoperiod may have helped too.

Anyhow, since I have a lot of light I think I am going to run a 6 hr photoperiod for a while. I think excess light was the biggest reason I began to see increased algae. 

Here are some current pics of my tank. You can see some of the HC that died (yellow coloration) but I am happy to report that its growing back real fast. My H. tennellus really took off during the 4 days I was gone. The bald spot in the front center was HC I had uprooted and decided to cut. 

These are quick pics taken with my point and shoot canon camera....


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## Martin Schellinck (Jun 17, 2006)

3bps of CO2 seems really low for the size of your tank. I see you're relying on the drop checker, but I would still consider doubling that rate. If the fish start gasping, then lower it back down. Your HC growth looks very similar to mine when I was growing it. I ran a 2' Tek t5 with all 4 bulbs (92W) over my 60p for ~7 hours and put in about 4 bps of co2. I eventually gave up on the HC because I couldn't get it to carpet low enough and it grew out of control before finally lifting off as one big clump. My recent experiences with glosso have led me to think that a longer photoperiod (~10hours) combined with running 2 bulbs instead of 4 would have produced HC that was more compact, greener, denser, and lower to the substrate. This was the case with my glosso. The trade off to this approach is that it would take a few months to fill in, but you do avoid many of the headaches associated with high light and algae. This low light approach with HC and glosso was recommended to me by Tom Barr and I now believe it's the best way to get a healthy looking foreground.


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## Retzius (Jul 25, 2009)

Interesting Martin... I will definitely consider your advice. I have trimmed it twice to keep it low and dense and it has gotten more dense than when I started. 

I will keep a watchful eye on the growth of the HC. What I have noticed after the chemical blast was that my HC leaves are now greener and smaller. I think this is the new growth that is taking place. The old HC I had initially planted had big leaves and most of those died when I used the peroxide. You can tell from the pics because they appear yellow. 

Would mind posting some pictures of a low and dense HC carpet? This would be just for reference, thanks


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## Martin Schellinck (Jun 17, 2006)

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/plants/25272-growing-hemianthus-callitrichoides-hc.html

This is a decent picture. I was never to attain growth that looked like this despite the HC growing absolutely out of control. Like yours, it had larger leaves and a yellowish tint to it. Another observation with my glosso is that it had the more compact and shorter look when it was nutrient deprived. The esthetic look that we want for foregrounds (low, dense, dark green) seems to be different that a plant that is thriving and healthy. Maybe greener leaves means more chlorophyll being produced to compensate for lower light. Or the vertical growth and large leaves may just be a sign of a healthy plant that is thriving. I've seen low tech tanks with decent lighting and excel dosing that have gotten excellent carpets, this tank for example http://www.aquascapingworld.com/forum/aquascaping-showcase/2584-10-x10-x6-homemade-tank.html
I know these are all just theories that are more than likely wrong, but I think at some point a controlled study needs to be performed to determine the effects of photoperiod/light strength, nutrients, and co2 on these foreground growths. Until that occurs, there are always going to be the differing opinions on the subject. Maybe Tom Barr will see this thread and chime in his 2 cents.


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## Retzius (Jul 25, 2009)

Thanks Martin ,

I cranked up the CO2 to 4 bps l will observe how the fish respond. So far so good. I am also skeptical of the drop checker. 

Just to clarify, the yellow leaves you see are from the peroxide and excel dosing (dead leaves). My leaves on the HC are green like the pic you posted.

From my experiences I would say that high light and a long photoperiod would produce tiny HC leaves and a low and dense carpet formation. However, its hard to get the right equilibrium with ferts, light, CO2, and algae is always more likely to explode under this setup like you stated.

I do agree that a study would be beneficial showing the different growth rates and patterns HC will take under varying conditions.


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## thief (Jan 12, 2008)

Man this tank looks great. The stone are beautiful too. I feel they are a bit under sized but hey who am I too judge.
Isn't that Pocket scale awesome or what. I bought mine on amazon and bring it to chemistry class to weigh stuff. lol 
geeky but soo cool!!!


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## Retzius (Jul 25, 2009)

thief said:


> Man this tank looks great. The stone are beautiful too. I feel they are a bit under sized but hey who am I too judge.
> Isn't that Pocket scale awesome or what. I bought mine on amazon and bring it to chemistry class to weigh stuff. lol
> geeky but soo cool!!!


Thanks thief, I cant comment too much on the pocket scale because I have not used it but I liked the price and also bought it on amazon. The weight calibration was neat too. 

I also think the stones could have been bigger, this is a small annoyance of mine. I may make some modifications to the scape when I find bigger and nicer looking rocks. Right now I want to make sure the HC takes a hold and with no unwanted algae.


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## Retzius (Jul 25, 2009)

Another Update....

So every plant seems to be doing ok except for my HC. It hasnt grown much because I have reduced the photoperiod to fight off the evil Green Spot Algae I am now getting. Also, the peroxide really killed the HC the last time so its taking longer to recover, notice the yellow. It really sux. I did a 3 day blackout and it did kill off most of it but its slowly creeping back with a 7 hr photoperiod. I did try to increase phosphate but I really didn't see any improvement. It looks like its light driven in my case.

Therefore, I researched over at Tom Barr's forum and came across an interesting thread claiming how Amano doesnt use high intensity light for his planted tanks. Instead, he uses low light and is able to grow HC nice and lush with no algae. Surprisingly, this is what Martin had suggested in an earlier post and I promised I would give it a shot if I couldn't get the right growth.

See this link, http://www.barrreport.com/showthrea...-Aqua-Forest-and-nice-low-PAr-values-who-knew

So....I think the ATI sunpower is too strong and is causing my GSA blooms. According to the thread, my light is too intense and there is not enough CO2. I have tried increasing CO2 and it resulted in some shrimp and one otto death. So I know I am at the limit. I have decided to decrease my light intensity by running 2 T5's for 3 hours, then a 1 hr "burst period" with all four bulbs firing, and finally the other pair of T5's for the last 3 hrs. The idea is that less light intensity will decrease the demand for CO2 and will no longer cause my plants, esp. HC, to starve for CO2 keeping my tank GSA free. I hope this works and encourage anyone trying to grow HC to review the link I posted. Its got lots of good useful information. 

Okay here is my update. The E. tennellus has taken off and so has the dwarf hair grass. I am hoping the DHG gets taller or else its getting replaced with something taller. The HC has taken a beating from the peroxide and blackouts but hopefully it will recover. This pic shows the HC right after I mowed it down.


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## Fat Guy (Nov 19, 2003)

this tank just looks like so much fun to put together and work on. Great job!!


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## jinsei888 (Apr 20, 2009)

you can never lose with Zebra Otos!


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## tuonor (Nov 26, 2009)

Hairgrass and E. Tenellus growth looks great. I like how you left a couple of the larger rocks in the background so they are submerged in the grassy growth.

BTW, what species of DHG are you using? 

Also, where did you source the Zebra otos? I'd like to get a couple after I cycle my tank but they are elusive.

Great work.


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## JennaH (Sep 28, 2009)

your zebra otos are so cool looking. and i love the contrast between the tennellus and DHG


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## Retzius (Jul 25, 2009)

Fat Guy- Thanks! it has been fun to put together and moderately easy. The funnest part for me was working on the rock scape. 

jinsei888- Amen to that, ha . I actually lost one of my zebra's. However, it didn't look good since day one. The other was a champ. 

tuonor- Thanks, glad you like it. The DHG and E. tennellus surprisingly have no GSA. My guess is because the rapid growth rate? The HC is infected but hopefully it resides. 

I have no idea what species I have but I think it will get taller once I decrease the light intensity. Some blade parts, far right corner, are bending. Probably due to the light intensity. 

I got my Ottos at my local fish store, Aquatic Warehouse. I think its a hit or miss with the zebras. You have to pick out healthy ones, sux. 

Jenna- Thanks for the compliments. The contrast is even more evident in person, the pics hide the contrast. Most of the blades right now are yellowish but some are pink. They have turned yellow because of the reduced photoperiod but I did have them pink for a while.


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## BMueller777 (Feb 5, 2008)

Great tank man I wish I had one :icon_roll


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## Retzius (Jul 25, 2009)

BMueller777 said:


> Great tank man I wish I had one :icon_roll


Thanks. :smile:


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## Retzius (Jul 25, 2009)

Ok...where to start...

I let my plants really grow out this time. I am happy to report that my Dwarf Hair Grass did grow taller with the reduced light intensity. However, the far right corner got uprooted so I had to replant, thus the empty corner.

I recently went back to changing my photoperiod to 6 hr with all lights on. 

I think I now found my problem for GSA; low CO2. I noticed the regulator would decrease its bubble count after a few weeks. I called aquariumplants.com and they are sending me a replacement regulator. So, I probably ran low CO2 which caused my HC to look ugly, grow high, and not grow dense.

Getting rid of the drop checker was the best thing I could of done too. Its not needed and too inconsistent because the color indicator was always yellow and I don't really think there was enough CO2 in the tank all along. 

So, I went and bought about 30+ espeis and started adjusting the CO2 rate based on their breathing to the surface. I was amazed at how high I had to crank up the CO2 to get them to breathe to the surface. This indicated to me how low of CO2 I was running.

Another indicator was the section of HC (right side) which has the best growth and is dense. I think the reason for its good growth is because it receives a good amount of flow from the output of the filter and probably has good dissolved CO2. 

On a sad note, I lost my Zebra Otto during a 4 day black out. It really sux. I couldnt find him and dont know what happened. :confused It was doing really well. I also lost about 20 espies from jumping. These guys are real jumpers. I might add cardinals tetras. I dont want to bother with covering the tank.

Here are the pics, I am showing you what my tank looked like before I gave it a haircut. I probably went overboard on cutting the E. tenellus. and dont like how I cut the DHG (reminds me of a roller coaster!) but its a trim and will grow back naturally. 

The HC does looks better now. Some parts are a little uprooted and I've had to replant. 

Pics










Trim


















Running Diatom filter to clean up the green water and from trimming. 









Diatom Gunk









Post-trim


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

Great looking tank! Post trim pictures are always cool, I like how the grass looks and as you mentioned, it'll encourage it to grow more and be full again shortly.

Also, you had some really funky shaped scissors, where'd you get those?
-Andrew


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## Martin Schellinck (Jun 17, 2006)

It's going to look great when it grows back in, it already looks 10x better than before. One suggestion is to move that center stone to the left somewhere. Right now, the way you're pruning the grass in the back focuses all the attention on it and causes it to stand out in my opinion. Concerning the regulator from aquariumplants.com, it sounds like it's a needle valve issue. This is actually relatively common on lower grade needle valves. If the next one reacts the same way, you might consider upgrading to a fabco, swagelok, or ideal metering valve.


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## !shadow! (Jan 25, 2010)

"Getting rid of the drop checker was the best thing I could of done too. Its not needed and too inconsistent because the color indicator was always yellow and I don't really think there was enough CO2 in the tank all along."

l have the same problem in my iwagumi. l poured 4 drops of the solution into my drop checker and after 2 days of not using co2 it's still yellow. Weird... Anyways looking good man loving the carpet.

one more thing where did you get your stand from?


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## Retzius (Jul 25, 2009)

A Hill, I am glad you like it thanks. Here is where I bought the bent scissors, http://www.widgetsupply.com/page/WS/PROD/scissors-bent/BBK04

Martin, I will move the center stone around. I have been thinking of adding more stone to the tank. This idea hasn't left me since I first setup the tank. I may experiment with some more pieces in the future, soon as I get more money. 

That regulator was highly recommended and its a shame it did that. Today it was working the way it should and my CO2 was too high so I had to lower it. Hopefully the replacement fixes the issue, if not I may look into other regulators like you suggested. 

Shadow, the CO2 drop checker is too inconsistent in my opinion. You are better off observing your fish. Thats the best indicator. 

I got my stand from a local scaper. It has excellent build quality and highly recommend him. I think he ships too. His user name is jnm1978 on socalaquascapers.com. I think he's on this board too. Here is his thread, http://socalaquascapers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1672&highlight=stands


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## !shadow! (Jan 25, 2010)

yea l learned observing your fish is the best indicator as "they don't lie". l thank tom brad and my self experience on that. Sometimes you just gotta find out yourself and stray away from the traditionalism and l don't mind. The stands are real nice by the way i just looked at the link. too bad l don't live in cali. l guess i'm gonna have to make my own. lt would probably be cheaper anyways. just out of curiosity do you happen to know his shipping quotes?


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## Retzius (Jul 25, 2009)

Shadow, unfortunately I do not. I also think avoiding the drop checker is one less thing to clean in your tank.


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## !shadow! (Jan 25, 2010)

Way to stay on the positive side hehe. kinda like those darn lily pipes l keep hearing about


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## Retzius (Jul 25, 2009)

April's update

Here is another update, as you can now see my HC is looking soooo much better. I trimmed it and have it about 1/4" thick. The top center section of HC was replanted, hence the small bald spots because that section was lifting. Also, there are still some minor spots in the front to be filled in but that is just a matter of time. However, it is much more dense and filling in as pics show.

I also trimmed the H. Tenellus again and will snap some pics once it grows more and turns red. The DHG looks taller and is also filling in. I am still having some GSA issues but I am experimenting with light to get the right balance. I am really happy with the tanks progress so far. 

Pics


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## !shadow! (Jan 25, 2010)

love that 3rd pic, very nice man.


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## halcyon (Mar 26, 2010)

Super cool, loving the different levels.


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## Retzius (Jul 25, 2009)

Thanks Shadow, I like that 3rd pic too. I should have taken it more straight, next time. 

halcyon, thanks. Once the tennellus grows and turns red, the levels will be more distinctive.


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## sammyman (Apr 24, 2010)

Any idea how much this tank setup has set you back?


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## Reginald2 (Mar 10, 2009)

Wow, this tank looks great. You take some great pictures too. 

@sammyman the first rule of planted tanks...


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## rountreesj (Jun 12, 2007)

never ask the price.


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## sammyman (Apr 24, 2010)

rountreesj said:


> never ask the price.


If I knew the price I could talk myself out of getting a setup like this... Otherwise it is $500 for the tank, $400 for the light and before you know it you have spent over $2k.


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