# Hi total newbie to LED lighting advice on this unit



## ZillionGuppies (Jan 21, 2014)

Hi Jacko5,


Note: I'm not an expert on LED lights or plant photosynthesis.


I took a quick peek at the light that you linked to. It looks like it has blue LEDs and "white" LEDs. 

I think that plants tend to use red light and blue light in varying quantities to fuel their photosynthesis. Hence the whole basis for PAR (photosynthetically active radiation) spectrum. Unless I missed something in that light's description I would want a light that put out as much red light as it did blue light. Of course, some of what the "white" LEDs are putting out is red.


As far as longevity and efficiency go:

Commercial LEDs are about -as efficient- as fluorescent tube lights. Greater efficiency for LEDs has been demonstrated in the lab but in the real world, LEDs and fluorescent tubes are pretty much on par with each other.

LEDs do have some advantages though. As long as they are not over driven (over heated) they will last a heck of a lot longer than fluorescent tubes. And, LEDs are physically much more robust than those mercury filled glass fluorescent tubes.

I would say dig a little deeper into the spectrum of light that your plants need and then see if the light you linked to can provide that spectrum. I do like that programmable schedule controller. That's very snazzy!


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## jacko5 (Jan 21, 2014)

ZillionGuppies said:


> Hi Jacko5,
> 
> 
> Note: I'm not an expert on LED lights or plant photosynthesis.
> ...


Many thanks for your informed reply.
Have you looked at the chart further down in the ad ?
Its the UT3-FS 3 panels joined together i am looking at, and it has in it,
Channel 1 - 36 white, 3 red , 3 green LEDs 12,1,1 in each panel
Channel 2 - 21 Royal Blue,18 Blue, 3 Purple LEDs. 7,6,1 in each panel
Do you think this will be Ok for a planted aquarium ?
Thank you.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

jacko5 said:


> May thanks for your informed reply.
> Have you looked at the chart further down in the ad ?
> Its the UT3-FS 3 panels joined together i am looking at, and it has in it,
> Channel 1 - 36 white, 3 red , 3 green LEDs 12,1,1 in each panel
> ...


some more info, the model number is NOT exact but most likely a minor issue.. :
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Whol...ight-for-aquarium-marine-tank/1314595866.html
Model NumberL3-FS Advantage:dimmable and best cover tank, no shadows Unique design:ultra thin and power insert Input voltage(V):100v~260v Optical power: 78 pcs 3W Bridgelux Bxce/Bxcd LED Electirc Consumption:3.5kwh/day normally Color:8500K White, red, green, Royal blue, blue, purple Length:72inch-96inch adjustable


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## jacko5 (Jan 21, 2014)

jeffkrol said:


> some more info, the model number is NOT exact but most likely a minor issue.. :
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Whol...ight-for-aquarium-marine-tank/1314595866.html
> Model NumberL3-FS Advantage:dimmable and best cover tank, no shadows Unique design:ultra thin and power insert Input voltage(V):100v~260v Optical power: 78 pcs 3W Bridgelux Bxce/Bxcd LED Electirc Consumption:3.5kwh/day normally Color:8500K White, red, green, Royal blue, blue, purple Length:72inch-96inch adjustable


Yes very similar, that has 78 3w leds mine has 84 3w leds and the unit i maybe getting is fully programmable, the one you linked is manual.
Like you said very similar.
Thanks.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

jacko5 said:


> Hi,
> Just wondering what you experts thought on this for my moderately planted 72L x 24W x 26H inches community aquarium,
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/72-p...nrise-and-sunset-no-fan-noise/1230622349.html
> ...


Certainly has the firepower.. see my above reply..


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## ZillionGuppies (Jan 21, 2014)

Hi Jacko5,

Just a few more observations:

You mentioned in your first post the possibility of this unit saving electrical power. If I read correctly, you currently run a total of three 54 watt T5 fluorescent bulbs? So, right now you're burning 162 watts when the lights are on. The LED fixture you listed pulls 180 watts according to the listing. It may or may not put out more light than the T5s you are currently using but if you run it at full power for the same length of time every day then it will consume more power not less.

Of course, the LEDs are dimable--you can run them at less than full power. Most people can't/don't dim their T5s. This makes it difficult to compare power usage with your current T5s and the possible new LED setup assuming you will take advantage of the LED dimmer.

As for all the different colors of LEDs included in the new fixture, you need to satisfy two things:

1) How much PAR (photosynthetically active radiation) are the LEDs putting out that the plants can actually use?

2) How will the light make the tank look to human eyes? Presumably you want a tank that looks pleasing.

Things the LEDs -may- do better:
-Be more robust
-Span the full length of the tank, eliminating dark areas near the ends of the tank

Things I question about the LEDs:
-That they have any better spectrum for growing plants than your current T5s
-That they are significantly more efficient than your current T5s

Possibly a big plus for the LEDs: They have that programmable dimmer driver. If that is well made it has the potential to handle gradual day/night transitions well.

Weather this LED light is a good fit or not comes down to what your goals are. I think that it is possible to grow some plants with this LED fixture. I'm not sure it will grow them any better than your current T5s.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

IF it lives up to the hype it will run circles around your "tubes" in terms of aesthetics.. depending on the cleverness of the programmers. 
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/72-p...fan-noise/1230622349.html&af=cj_6147090&vd=30
Searching programmable led aquarium light with sunrise / sunset/ lunar cycle simulation

As to saving electricity.. I wouldn't count it as a factor.. It "probably" won't cost you more...I'm impressed.. but at that price it better be impressive.


 Manually free program 24 Time-Points photoperiods per day for 2 individually channels




The "white" is 8500K........ IF I designed this for FW I'd 1)replace generic "red" w/ 660nm red, 2)increase the red count and 3)make the white at least as low as 6500K 4)make it 3 channels, separating out the red .. Your blue "channel" can color it better.. 
My mind pictures it "as is" as a tad on the cool side. Considering what the OP "tubes" are I doubt it would change the look much...and, personally it is too blue anyways..for my taste..


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## jacko5 (Jan 21, 2014)

Wow thanks guys, great information.
I am now looking at different panels they do after looking at the advice given.
What do you guys think of this panel, i am looking at different LED colours,

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/72-i...or-marine-tank-180cm-6ft-180W/1306822289.html

or 

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/DSun...controller-IDP180-72-inch-6ft/1361049632.html

The difference between the above 2 are 42 x white LEDs are 8500k and 42x 8000k i thought these are better for corals, but maybe i am wrong.
My first choice are 42 x 12,000 k white LEDs.

If you were buying a 6ft light from them which one would you choose from the options they sell ?
Sorry to be a pain, i just want to get it right for £250gbp.

Edit,
I think this is the one for me.. what do you guys think ?

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/DSun...controller-IDP180-72-inch-6ft/1361049632.html

It has 8000k white LEDs


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

jacko5 said:


> Wow thanks guys, great information.
> I am now looking at different panels they do after looking at the advice given.
> What do you guys think of this panel, i am looking at different LED colours,


This is 10,000k/actinic blue









This is 3500K









this is "balanced" w/ dimmer of 3500k.. 10,000k/actinic.. 660nm red channels











What "look" you prefer will determine what color and/or channels you run at what %... no point in really getting a 10,000K white and a blue channel. It will restrict any blending... It will be from blue to bluer.. Now IF that is what you want..fine. 
most saltwater tanks run "blue" (even into "UV"). Only now are they seeing the benefit of red for color and adapting.


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## jacko5 (Jan 21, 2014)

Thanks for the pictures they help a lot.
I am looking for more like the last picture.
I like water to look clear and see through, no colour to it and plants to look green.
I think 8k white and some blue,red,green LEDs will get the affect i want.
What do you think ?
I just need to find a mix of LEDs to do the job.
Thats why i am turning more to this set of LEDs

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/DSun...controller-IDP180-72-inch-6ft/1361049632.html


Many thanks everyone for trying so hard to help me.

This is a picture of my aquarium,it just needs more plants, hence better lighting.


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## jacko5 (Jan 21, 2014)

Hey guys you can change the LEDs in the above lights very easily.
Check this out, i found this video tonight,






So if any blow or wear out or you want to change colours you can.
Makes me think i will buy one now.
Looks like will custom make one for you.
You could even ask them to put a few spare LEDs into the box for you.
What combination of LEDs would be ideal for freshwater / planted aquarium ?
Bearing in mind there are 28 in each unit.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

jacko5 said:


> Hey guys you can change the LEDs in the above lights very easily.
> Check this out, i found this video tonight,
> 
> DSunY LED aquarium light DIY your own color of LED - YouTube
> ...


tough question... there are a few gotchas here like different LED "colors" have different electrical requirements.. making it a bit more difficult.
IF I was to "design" this I'd 1)insist on 660nm-ish reds.. and 2x the red currently in there. As to the white I'd go a mix of 6500k and 3200k w/ predominantly 6500. 
as to the blue channel i'd see no real reason to change from what they offer..I'd probably get rid of green in favor of orange.
RGB balances to white BUT no sense in more green than what is in the white LED's.
you could eliminate all blue from the "blue channel"
and add all 10000k or higher) white. 
Your "moonlight" would be more realistic..  After all it IS white..

This gets messy fast.. 

BTW: I was hoping they used "plug and play" LED's but you have to de-solder and re-solder them.. not hard but not quite as easy as one would believe..

for fun.. 14 per channel
1)4 =660nm red 6=6500k white 4=3500k white... best guess this is close to 4000k color temp (tungsten light yellow)
2)14= 10,000k 10,000k color temp 
At both on full power you would have approx 7000k "daylight".. Ramping up channel 1 and ramping up channel 2 w/ a 1-2 hr delay would give a nice sunrise effect..ramping down 1 at noonish would give you a bright noon.then of course just the opposite for sunset. 
Personally I wouldn't bother too much w/ "moonrise" much...though a brief period of very low light white would be fun.

I "personally" lean towards this type of combination:
http://www.buildmyled.com/dutch-planted-6300k/
LED Selections per 12" Board: (8) 6500K Cool White, (2) 625nm Red, (1) 470nm Blue, (1) 505nm Cyan, (1) 525nm Green, (1) 615nm Orange/Red, (1) 660nm Deep Red 

but having 2 channels changes thing..  just keep redder things on one bluer things on another..


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## jacko5 (Jan 21, 2014)

Jeffkrol,
Many thanks for all the info.
I think i will go with the one that has 8000k white LEDs as i think it will give me the kind of light i need.
The last website you mentioned is to expensive, 2 sets of LEDs is over 900usd to the UK and then import duties will take it over 1000usd thats a lot of money.
I can get the set of LEDs from the chinese website for 399usd delivered and maybe 50usd or so import duties.
Once again thanks for all the help from all members who posted.
Regards Jacko.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

jacko5 said:


> Jeffkrol,
> Many thanks for all the info.
> I think i will go with the one that has 8000k white LEDs as i think it will give me the kind of light i need.
> The last website you mentioned is to expensive, 2 sets of LEDs is over 900usd to the UK and then import duties will take it over 1000usd thats a lot of money.
> ...


American "equivalent"-ish..
http://www.reefbreeders.com/bridgelux_value.html
Check the channel configurations.. 

and this thread:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=515209


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## jacko5 (Jan 21, 2014)

Jeff,
Thanks that second link is interesting roud:

If i go ahead and get this light,

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/72-i...or-marine-tank-180cm-6ft-180W/1306822289.html


What LEDs should i asked to be changed or ask there values ?
I do not want the light to look blue, a nice clear look is good for me.
I also want to get the correct lighting as well to grow plants in my tank.
I dont use CO2 but i dose ferts weekly.
Am i correct that 8k white LEDs are better that 12k LEDs for plants ?
Thanks.


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## Brian041 (Sep 10, 2012)

If it's for a small tank you might check out the Finnex Fugeray-R with red boost. They seem to work really well and I'll be ordering one in the near future. If it's for a bigger tank you might look at their other fixtures to see if they have the same thing only bigger.


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## jacko5 (Jan 21, 2014)

Brian,
Thanks for that.
There is a pic of my tank earlier in the thread, its 6ft x 2ft x 2ft


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

jacko5 said:


> Am i correct that 8k white LEDs are better that 12k LEDs for plants ?
> Thanks.


not sure it is definitive either way but it is unlikely.. 
"White" LED's are blue LED's w/ phosphors.. 
go through this to see exactly what I mean:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ecoxotic/5952434814/lightbox/
453nm ish blue w/ phosphors/filters in greater or lesser proportions creating 14000k to 3500k "white" LED..
You can do w/ out "white" all together w/ the correct choice,levels and mixing of of Red (or reddish), G (or greenish), B(or bluish) LED's. Picking "white" just simplifies the process..
or gives you a base color.. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthetically_active_radiation










> Chlorophyll, the most abundant plant pigment, is most efficient in capturing red and blue light. Accessory pigments such as carotenes and xanthophylls harvest some green light and pass it on to the photosynthetic process, but enough of the green wavelengths are reflected to give leaves their characteristic color


just a note on that slide show.. apparently they use "magenta" LED's for the red addition to the reef tanks. Looks to be a "phosphor-ed" blue as well .TRUE 660nm red have different enough electrical characteristics to usually warrant their own "channel"
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ecoxotic/6431607323/lightbox/
vs:









Just another chart:


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## jacko5 (Jan 21, 2014)

Jeff,
I must admit i am totally lost :help:
You really know your stuff when it comes to lighting.
Can i just ask a simple question of you... can you go to the china wesbite i have shown in this thread and tell me the best option for a freshwater planted tank with the dsuny led systems please ?
My tank is 6ft long 2ft wide 2.2ft deep.
Many thanks :smile:


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

jacko5 said:


> Jeff,
> I must admit i am totally lost :help:
> You really know your stuff when it comes to lighting.
> Can i just ask a simple question of you... can you go to the china wesbite i have shown in this thread and tell me the best option for a freshwater planted tank with the dsuny led systems please ?
> ...


Unfortunately I know what I consider "theoretical" lighting.. Making suggestions and spending hundreds of your dollars is not in my comfort zone. 

My "suggestions" are this, and I hope others will chime in:
*Channel 1 original: 36×3W 8000K White,3×3W Red, 3×3W Green*
*Channel 1 modified:* *12x3w red, 21x6500k, 9x 3500k 
(roughly 4000k equiv)
*
*Channel 2 original: 21×3W Royal Blue,18×3W Blue, 3×3W Purple*
*Channel 2 modified: 21×3W 6500K, 12×3W Royal blue, 9×3W Cyan or Turquoise*
(no K equiv, just "blue")

This is one of* thousands *of possibilities.. and I also have no clue as to how they do their moonlighting..so I couldn't even guarantees its" color".. 


I do not particularly like the restraints on 2 channel lighting.
RGB "mixing" offers unlimited possibilities of color choices and color "temp" from sunrise to deep ocean blue. Unfortunately w/ freshwater fish this is not really a (arguably) "desirable" quality re: "natural looks" The main hindrance is the "waste" in the G channel..
So I really like;
1)red channel 
2)blue channel and 
3)warm-ish white channel for "green"

I thought designed the above w/ those parameters in mind
QA bit more info:
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/media/PDF/ColorSpectrumGuideFW.pdf


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## jacko5 (Jan 21, 2014)

Jeff,
Many thanks for your suggestions.
I know what you mean about spending my dollars.
I have taken everything on board and also looking at the very last link
as some of what they say in their is very informative.
Once again thanks for putting up with me on this matter roud:
Regards Jacko.
PS.If anyone else wants to chip in feel free :icon_wink


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## jacko5 (Jan 21, 2014)

Jeff,
I sent them a message regarding the LED values,they sent me this,

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One Panel

 LED: 7×3W royal blue(450nm)，6×3W blue(470nm)，12×3W white(8000K)，1×3W red(660nm)，1×3W purple(420nm)，1×3W green(520nm)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So i will be getting 3 of the above panels , do you think the light will be enough cover my 6ft x 2ft x 2.2ft aquarium ?

Thanks.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

jacko5 said:


> I do not want the light to look blue, a nice clear look is good for me.





jacko5 said:


> Jeff,
> I sent them a message regarding the LED values,they sent me this,
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ...


As far as I can tell that is going to "look blue"...though you can , I assume, dim the blue channel to match. Poblem w/ that is you lose light..
I'd have to see it to determine whether I like or not.

It should cover just fine, depending on lenses and height off water surface.


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## jacko5 (Jan 21, 2014)

*Jeff,
I think you are right regarding the blue look.
I think i wil ask them to change some of the blue LEDs for white 8k ones.
This is what is total in 3 panels blue LED wise,
21×3W Royal Blue,18×3W Blue, 3×3W Purple
In each panel 7×3W Royal Blue,6×3W Blue, 1×3W Purple
Any idea what to swap to white 8k for a CLEAR water look ?
Sorry to be a pain :iamwithst
*


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

jacko5 said:


> *Jeff,
> I think you are right regarding the blue look.
> I think i wil ask them to change some of the blue LEDs for white 8k ones.
> This is what is total in 3 panels blue LED wise,
> ...


My belief.

Each unit is 28 LED's w 14 per channel
They are trying to sell you
1)7×3W Royal Blue,6×3W Blue, 1×3W Purple= 14
2)12×3W white(8000K)，1×3W red(660nm)，1×3W green(520nm)

Great for reefs and "doable" for freshwater but certainly not optimal:









Purple/green/red is probably the 3 in the middle..
IF you want to run the "blue" channel on high the other channel needs to be way more "yellow"...
"Royal blue is very good for plants and so is blue BUT "white" are blue w/ phosphors so IF you are going to bother to swap out things I suggest as another alternative:
1)7×3W Royal Blue,6×8000k= 13 (or add 1 8000K for 14)
2)10×3W white(6000K)，3×3W red(660nm)=13 (or add 1 6000k for 14)

THERE is some discrepancy w/ what I see.. 14 or 13??? per channel..
"slightly" exaggerated visual of color temp. 








For a reference:
http://forum.buildmyled.com/index.php?threads/new-5000k-planted-tank-spectrum.225/

"personal" opinion.. Purple is unnecessary, green is unnecessary, needs more red, needs less blue, should "average" in 8000K or less when on "high" (both channels close to 100% output) ...My above recommendations would render the color "temp" higher and would have no qualms w/ lowering the white (in the white red channel) to 4000k and increasing "white" in the blue channel.. I know this sounds (and is) confusing but unfortunately it would need prototyping and testing to be "perfect" for ones tastes..

I suppose I should add color temp is not 100% predictive of "tone" but a general guideline..


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## jacko5 (Jan 21, 2014)

Jeff,
Many thanks for the info.
Also on the links you have given me i found the 5000k system.
Would i use this configuration to get the 5000k system,
http://www.buildmyled.com/custom-report-details/?partNo=PS4890S101AATAATAAATAATAA

Are the LEDs just 6500k white and a few 660 deep red ?
No royal blue or blue needed ?

The 5000k system uses 11 x 6500k LEDs and 4 x deep red 660 LEDs, could i leave one 6500k LED out so only 14 LEDs and then double so 28 LEDs in each panel, 14 in each channel ? or would this mess with the ideal 5000k ?

The 5000k system looks very good indeed, for plants and fish.
This is the last thing i will ask, can you mimic the 5000k system for me into the LED system i am ordering from china please ?

Sorry for being a total pain, i think the 5000k system is for me i just cannot afford the 1000 usd it would cost me from buildmyled website.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

jacko5 said:


> Jeff,
> Many thanks for the info.
> Also on the links you have given me i found the 5000k system.
> Would i use this configuration to get the 5000k system,
> ...



With 2 channels you don't need to worry about "ideal" 4000k because you can balance one against the other by the use of dimming..
So the most "efficient" way is to make one channel at or below 4000k and the other above.
Secondly in the system your buying the "red" is undefined as to red or possibly deep red.
THIS would give you 4000k when channel 2 is "out" (lower if red is "deep red" but I am assuming "normal" 625nm red)
*Channel 1 modified:* *12x3w red, 21x6500k, 9x 3500k 
(roughly 4000k equiv)*

SO a slight modification by increasing the number of 3500K LEDs would push it below 4000k at full power allowing you to boost the temp w/ channel 2, thus using ALL of the LEDS (though only at full power when you choose)
*Channel 1 modified:* *12x3w red, 9x6500k, 21x 3500k *
(probably close to 2500K)
*Channel 2 modified: 21×3W 6500K, 12×3W Royal blue, 9×3W Cyan or Turquoise* 

channel 2 can be any combination of white blue you choose as long as it is effectively above 4000K. I added the cyan or turquoise just for fun..

Bottom line is you are going to balance a blue/white channel against a red/white channel w/ the controller...shifting output gets you a wide range of color temps while utilizing much of the output..


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## jacko5 (Jan 21, 2014)

Jeff,
Many thanks for all you help.
I will go with your last figures for channel 1 and 2

Channel 1 modified: 12x 3w red, 9x 6500k, 21x 3500k


Channel 2 modified: 21× 3w 6500K, 12× 3w Royal blue, 9× 3w Cyan


I will ask if they can make me a led light with that configuration.
I am right in saying that this will give me as near as dam it to the 5000k system that i would like to achieve from the previous link ?
If you can just answer the above before i send the figures to them.
Once again thanks for your help and putting up with me :wink:


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

jacko5 said:


> Jeff,
> Many thanks for all you help.
> I will go with your last figures for channel 1 and 2
> 
> ...


Approx output of channels (error due to count mismatch but close)
















OPTIONAL config for channel 2.. 









Credit goes to buildmyled.com for the calculator..


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## jacko5 (Jan 21, 2014)

Jeff,
Ok thanks for the above.
Means nothing to me :iamwithst
I will take it that it mimics the 5000k system on buildmyled website.
I did notice that the wattage is much lower than the 5000k system :confused1:, 70w v 37w
I will get onto them when they come back from chinese holidays in about 9 days time.
Thanks


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

jacko5 said:


> Jeff,
> Ok thanks for the above.
> Means nothing to me :iamwithst


Send then the images, they "should" understand what you are trying to do 




jacko5 said:


> I will take it that it mimics the 5000k system on buildmyled website.


It can "mimic" any system from 14000k to 2400k by dimming a channel 
Same principal as taking RGB LED's and mixing them to white or various shades of white.


jacko5 said:


> I did notice that the wattage is much lower than the 5000k system :confused1:, 70w v 37w
> Thanks


That may be per module so 37w x 3
3W leds are 3- 4v @ 650mA 
JUST assuming a simple average of 3v @500mA so it is 1.5W per LED..3w is optimistic

Oh make sure to use the second suggestion slightly increasing the 6500k white in the blue side...
http://www.yetda.com/file/X081E 3W Power LED.pdf


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## jacko5 (Jan 21, 2014)

Jeff,
Ok so which one of these should i use,

*Channel 1 modified:* *12x3w red, 21x6500k, 9x 3500k 
(roughly 4000k equiv)*
*Channel 2 modified:21×3W 6500K, 12×3W Royal blue, 9×3W Cyan or Turquoise* 

or

*Channel 1 modified:* *12x3w red, 9x6500k, 21x 3500k *
(probably close to 2500K)
*Channel 2 modified: 21×3W 6500K, 12×3W Royal blue, 9×3W Cyan or Turquoise* 

I am thinking the top one is brighter.
Thanks.


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## jacko5 (Jan 21, 2014)

Jeff,
Just had a reply from the china seller
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DSunY Top One In China: Hello Wayne,

Very thanks for your information.

We can do customer for the led color. Please note, there are 12 led in each channel of each light panel.
Please, it is 3 W led . In my experience, there much red or lower color temperature. this will make the tank look not like natures( too red). One of my customer complain it.

So My suggest
in each panel:
channel 1: 4x 3w red, 8x 6500k
channel 2: 4× 3w Royal blue, 3× 3w Cyan, 5× 3w 6500K

the total
channel 1: 12x 3w red, 24x 6500k
channel 2: 12× 3w Royal blue, 9× 3w Cyan, 15× 3w 6500K

I am also little worry about there are much more red and less blue. a
what do you think?

Best Regards
DSunY 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
He recommends this,

channel 1: 12x 3w red, 24x 6500k 
channel 2: 12× 3w Royal blue, 9× 3w Cyan, 15× 3w 6500K 

So it looks like he is trying to sell me a 72 x 3w led fixture.

What do you think ?


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

jacko5 said:


> Jeff,
> 
> 
> channel 1: 12x 3w red, 24x 6500k
> ...


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## jacko5 (Jan 21, 2014)

Jeff,
Ok thanks once again.
So they now want to sell me a 72" x 3w led fixture.
So 24 leds per 24" fixture for both channels, 12 in each channel.
I will say i want your recommendation.
Can you give me the 1 and 2 channel sets of leds for this please.
Regards Wayne.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

jacko5 said:


> Jeff,
> Ok thanks once again.
> So they now want to sell me a 72" x 3w led fixture.
> So 24 leds per 24" fixture for both channels, 12 in each channel.
> ...


channel 1: 12x 3w red, 24x 6500k 
channel 2: 12× 3w Royal blue, 9× 3w Cyan, 15× 3w 6500K 

Channel 1 9 red: 9 3500k: 18 6500k
Channel 2 6 Royal blue :6 cyan :12 6500k

Give me more time I'm in a hurry ..


----------



## Matsnork (Jun 3, 2013)

How much more expensive are for example maxspect fixtures over these? 
Personally I would rather spend my money either cheap cold white diy, or if I need/want the sunset/color options on a quality cree fixture like maxspect razor. 

Just fyi, cheap cold white leds grow plants just fine. It´s not that crucial getting "just the right blend" of the different wavelengths.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Matsnork said:


> How much more expensive are for example maxspect fixtures over these?
> Personally I would rather spend my money either cheap cold white diy, or if I need/want the sunset/color options on a quality cree fixture like maxspect razor.
> 
> Just fyi, cheap cold white leds grow plants just fine. It´s not that crucial getting "just the right blend" of the different wavelengths.


Personally I like "options".. Using a 3 channel system I get a wonderful (though due to dimming restrictions punctated) gradation from a 660nm red tank through orange to white and, if I choose "blue white" at noon. 
My entire point is choice. If the OP liked just 4000K white then all he would have to do is go w/ 4000k white LED's. He is paying for an advanced controller.. and should not be saddled w/ just dim to full 4000k ..
Also considering that it seems like there is more than enough PAR on 2 channels, dimming one for curtailing of growth is not a bad thing..
And yes, I'd do it DIY (I did) and still oped for a 4 way controller that is more limited than the one he is buying.. 

AFAIKT there LEDs are geared to reefers w/ deeper than fw pockets (in general).. 
and can't condone their use of "so much" blue... 
What I "designed" gives unlimited color choice w/ maximum (well it can be tweaked a bit more but at a risk of, in practice, less flexibility if there is change in needs/wants) output based on the OP's choice of what he believes he likes.. At $300 plus I presented, to the best of my knowledge.
As to comparison to maxspect razor (again geared to reefs not FW)








Channel 1 would be approx 6300K.. Channel 2 WAY off the chart. He could NEVER see 4000k lighting, no matter what he did.

All I did is shift the "color temp" down in both channels.. and eliminated "actinic blue"..The orig was close to maxspect clones
AS to DIY, I could probably build it for 1/2 of the selling price but without the complete set of programs he will get, whether you use them or not.. ???

Getting back to my orig.. I might even shift channel 1 from
Channel 1 9 red: 9 3500k: 18 6500k
to 
Channel 1 9 red: 9 6500k: 18 3500k for an effective temp of 3000k. Then you can boost channel 2more for more light output at the temp he likes..


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

With the newer and better LEDs fixtures coming out (not the cheap SMD leds) but the ones with Cree's, you can lower the intensity and it would work for Freshwater.

Reefer need way more PAR, and more blue spectrum, so in theory, all you have to do is lower the blue a bit and keep the rest. I'm even seeing new fixtures on the market with a fuller spectrum of light such as the Current USA lights, Finnex, etc, so the future does look bright for LEDs, no pun intended. 

Google the Plant's spectrum chart and look at the fixture's output, if they are similar, you're all set. 

Well, in my opinion anyways.

Oh I forgot to mention, if you're going for the iwagumi look, which is mostly green, you don't really need those funky colours. 6500- 8000K is good.


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## jacko5 (Jan 21, 2014)

Good debate guys love it :smile:

Jeff,
God you must be sick of me now 

Its 5000k i am looking for like in the link a few posts ago,
http://www.buildmyled.com/custom-report-details/?partNo=PS4890S101AATAATAAATAATAA

So what would i use for the 5000k "see through water" look on full power with 3 fixtures of 24 3w LEDs .. 72 total 3w LEDs ?
Obviously other water colours would arise when the sunrise, moon etc modes kick in i know that.

This thread may help others on a budget and wanting LEDs
Thanks.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

FlyingHellFish said:


> Oh I forgot to mention, if you're going for the iwagumi look, which is mostly green, you don't really need those funky colours. 6500- 8000K is good.


nobody needs sunset/sunrise of "moon phases" either.. 

As to funky colors.. well "white" LED's are blue w/ phosphors so just choosing them is "fine"..
Unfortunately as to PAR, they are a bit short in deep red. 
W/ the OP light I compromised using "just red" which is a pure-ish.
















Which hits Chl.B fairly hard.. I WOULD PREFER 660nm Red but unfortunately this does not seem to be an option..
Secondary use is as a pure colorant and Kelvin decrease.
As to Cyan. that is just a colorant in the blue channel w/ the added advantage of stimulating secondary pigments (see chart)







Enriching green in the "blue channel"
Royal blue hits the upper chlorophyll absorption bands.









Oh and it seems the general opinion is "just white" LEDs have a sterile look.. I have a tendency to agree. Some "targeted color" LED's "seem" to add a pop that is missing in the white (blue plus phosphor) LED's


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

jacko5 said:


> So what would i use for the 5000k "see through water" look on full power with 3 fixtures of 24 3w LEDs .. 72 total 3w LEDs ?
> Obviously other water colours would arise when the sunrise, moon etc modes kick in i know that.


Without testing I am unfortunately confident that you will not get 5000K on "full power" but will need to dim the blue a bit.. Exactly how much will depend on how close my estimates are and the actual spectrum of the LEDs..

BTW: Did you ask IF you can get 660nm "deep red".. 
Better for photosynthesis and it will lower channel 1 more so you can drive channel 2 higher..

To get exactly 5000k at both channels full power all you need is the sum of the 2 channels to equal 10,000K.. which can be done in thousands of combinations..
like 3500K and 6500k.. 2000k,8000k ect..


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

FlyingHellFish said:


> Reefer need way more PAR, and more blue spectrum,


That is an interesting statement.. I'm not sure that is all scientific.. 
High latitude clearwater lakes would recieve more light but in a truncated year (quantity fluctuates over time) where an equatorial reef will recieve a more steady stream..
http://www.ccfg.org.uk/conferences/downloads/P_Burgess.pdf

Point is on an overall year shallow gin clear lakes in high latitudes would receive only slightly less PAR and in fact could see more depending how Deep you look in the ocean water column.. 

Sorry just stretching the brain.. As to salt needing more blue.. I also need to think about the "why".. (aesthetic or functional)


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## jacko5 (Jan 21, 2014)

Jeff,
I have asked them about deep red LEDs.
Will report back when i have an answer.


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

Ooh a debate, I love debates! 

Reefers need more blue because that of the corals they want to grow. Look at any reef light and it's more gear towards the blue end. And of course you can add funky colours, but that doesn't mean it going to help if the thing you're growing is not going to use it.

White light is fine, just pick one with a wider spectrum or add another source for the Red or Blue. PAR too low? Then add more.

An example, you can turn plants red with white light (even if it's not peaking in red), how? You add more of the lighting source to compensate for the lack of X spectrum.

Should you? 

Nope, because you can add in the desired spectrum with another light. Yes, I was agreeing with Jeff, no idea why he toss in a graph peaking in Red. 

But! 

If you're not going for the red plants, just green, then just get a white light in 6500-8000K (my opinion) because that looks the best. 

And jeff, you don't have to agree with my statement of Reefer needing more pars. The market and SPS coral growers seem to.


----------



## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

FlyingHellFish said:


> Ooh a debate, I love debates!
> 
> Reefers need more blue because that of the corals they want to grow. Look at any reef light and it's more gear towards the blue end. And of course you can add funky colours, but that doesn't mean it going to help if the thing you're growing is not going to use it.
> 
> ...


All plants can benefit from more PAR.. IFyou fertilize them.. I wasn't arguing against it fresh or salt. I just think reefers needing more PAR than FW is not really perfectly correct.

It would be, in part plant dependent.. Are all FW plants "low light" plants? No, though most common ones probably are.
Are deeper water corals more "adapted" to blue than then FW plants from gin clear lakes? Of course, esp since "red" gets adsorbed faster (though your talking multiple meters before it is quantifiable-ly important. 

FW can handle the same PAR as reefers.. and they don't really need "more blue", they need the spectrum that 1)has high PAR and 2)is psychologically appealing. 

They don't need blue but want blue..
But let "reefers" decide:


> 6500k = most growth, but also equals butt ugly.
> 10k = good growth, better color
> 14k = marginal growth, much better color
> 20k = even less growth, but vBottom line, you got to decide if color or growth is more important. Most people compromise w/ 10k or 14k. I can assure you plenty of people get awesome growth and color from those Phoenix 14k bulbsery awesome color


http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/139014-ideal-spectrum-for-optimal-coral-growth/

One thing to keep in mind is IF you are using something like


> Honestly I realy have seen the best growth rates with my polyps and my sps under the 2 x 20k 250w Ushio DEs.


THAT produces a ton of light w/ a broader spectrum than you would think
Sorry didn't find 20000k but in comparison:


















The red chart was to show the "purity" of normal red LED's.. and that can be compared to the adsorption spectra of chlorophyll to estimate effectiveness..
but like anything in nature.. it's "complicated"
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2013/2/aafeature
There is a lot here, and the methodology is somewhat suspect, but one thing stuck out:


> All other species investigated in this study showed no clear preference for one particular spectrum, which may be a reflection of the plasticity of their zooxanthellae, in terms of chromatic adaptation.


And again:


> To my knowledge, nobody uses red lights over their reef aquariums. Usually, red light encourages algal growth. Bluer lights do not. To the best of my understanding, 20,000k bulbs will produce a very blue look, but corals will not grow as much under these lights. They will survive and can look quite good, but growth will not be high. On the other hand, I think some coral farms use bulbs as low as 6700k because that promotes serious growth. The lower the K, the closer to the red end of the spectrum, generally the more coral growth. The higher K, the more blue, the better pop you will get on colors, but the slower the growth will be (generally speaking of course).


http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/aquarium-corals/54835-leds-coral-growth.html

corals have algae not higher plants..so there will be differences in needs.. but they are more similar than different.. in re: to light.



> Most of the time, actinics are for looks because the rest of the lighting system is more efficient and puts out more light, but that depends on the setup. The frequency response of the various microbes (usually zooxanthellae) in the animals we keep is determined by a number of factors, and these organisms often have secondary pigments that allow it to use a wider range of frequencies.
> 
> This page discusses photosynthesis, as a quick intro:
> 
> http://www.emc.maricopa.edu/faculty/...BioBookPS.html


http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=918104

One more:
http://orphek.com/about/about-corals/


> This is more accurate considering that corals respond best to wavelengths between 400-550 nanometers (B) and 620-700 (R) nanometers.
> Corals found in shallow reefs and tide pools receive a greater portion of the light spectrum and intensity of natural sunlight because there is not enough water to significantly filter the light (water absorbs certain wavelengths of light more readily than others). Blue light penetrates the deepest and that is why the water appears bluish at deeper depths. Corals found in deeper parts of the reef depend on more of the blue spectrum and less intense light.


and it "seems" the current trend in reef lighting is now recognizing "red" as a helpful component ..









Important Definitions as it applies PAR in plants and zooanthellic algae: See the graph to the left as it corresponds to each of these definitions.



> *A: Phototropic response; having a tendency to move in response to light. Basically this is the Chlorophyll containing plant or algae "moving" to respond to a positive light source to begin the process of photosynthesis (initial growth of plants, zooxanthellae, etc.).
> 
> *B: Photosynthetic response; the process which begins when energy from light is absorbed by proteins called photosynthetic reaction centers that contain chlorophylls.
> 
> *C: Chlorophyll synthesis is the chemical reactions and pathways by the plant hormone cytokinin soon after exposure to the correct Nanometers wave length (about 670 NM) of light resulting in the formation of chlorophyll, resulting in continued growth of a plant, algae, zooxanthellae and the ability to “feed” and propagate, and without this aspect PAR (670 NM light energy), zooxanthellae and plants cannot properly “feed” propagate. The results of the lack of this high PAR “spike” would be stunted freshwater plant growth, and eventually poor coral health in reef tanks


http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1918382


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

^ I have no idea where you're going with this. 

Nearly every reef lighting fixture produces more PAR, and thus more expensive. Those reefers are crazy about par, but is it NEEDED? Man, I don't know, I don't do marine. 

But I can toss in graphs I find on google too, 










And those reefers were talking about one algae using more red. There difference types of algae and they all have their preferences, and thus the whole idea of a ‘siesta’ period. It's where you blast a ton of light for a short period of time and then return to normal. The idea was that - plants can adapt and use the light, while algae would be slower to benefit. 



Newt said:


> Plants will grow with ordinary bulbs as they tend to have both some blue and red emissions. The problem is that they also have wavelengths between 500 and 600nm, which algae likes. Green algae and green plants use the same pigments for photosynthesis (chlorophyll a/b & carotenoids). So, light that helps one helps the other. The algae that are different are the blue-green algae (cyanobacteria), which contain Phycocyanin and absorb light heavily in the low 600nm (orange-red), which is unfortunately present in most standard fluorescents. In the planted aquarium artificial light should ideally peak (or be stronger) in the red area of the spectrum. The tanks’ appearance can be compensated (balanced) with blue light and some green light for brightness to the human eye. Strong blue light will cause plant growth to be more compact and bushy and will also tend to promote algae growth. So remember to balance 2/3 red to 1/3 blue light emissions.


I thought if you were quoting people's post on forums, I could too. Newt just dude with 2k post on APC.

Anyways, back to reef's love with PAR 
(needed or not, my statement was still true)

This is what they do over at the reef side, they love them PARs.


























And, in conclusion, I have no idea what we're arguing about. 

I was telling the guy, he didn't need those weird funky colours if what he was growing, keeping, looking at, wasn't going to use them.

Then, you throw a semi-truck of pictures, graphs and YES!, even quoted people from other forums. *sigh 

If I was ever returning something from BestBuy, I want you to come with me.


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## jacko5 (Jan 21, 2014)

Interesting reading chaps :thumbsup:

Jeff,
The china supplier has said he can do deep red LEDs.
He has asked to have a look at this thread as i think he wants to learn how to make his LED light units better for plants i think, as most of the ones he sells now are for marine/corals.
Would be good to get a good unit up and running then see how my plants react to it.
I cannot do co2 as my PH is 7 or a bit lower, adding co2 will be disaster.
So i have to rely on ferts

http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/allinone.htm 

I use this ferts 

DIY TPN+ (3)
48g Potassium Nitrate
2.2g Potassium Phosphate (monobasic)
17g Magnesium Sulphate Heptahydrate (Epsom Salts)
0.5g E300 Ascorbic Acid
0.2g E202 Potassium Sorbate
5g EDTA Chelated Trace Elements Mix (TNC Trace, CSM+B)
500ml distilled water

I dose 60ml once a week, i will up that once i get better lighting and more plants.

And i need a good light source, hence asking for advice in the first place.
I really want to go the LED route as i want to set it up and forget about it.
I work weird hours and a LED system would be good for me, timers are Ok but a fully automated system would be better.
I am looking for a natural water look with good light for growing plants well.
Having a 6ft tank and growing plants is a bugger :icon_eek: with a community setup.

Thanks chaps.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

jacko5 said:


> Interesting reading chaps :thumbsup:
> 
> Jeff,
> The china supplier has said he can do deep red LEDs.
> He has asked to have a look at this thread as i think he wants to learn how to make his LED light units better for plants i think, as most of the ones he sells now are for marine/corals.


That is great news.. I thought it wouldn't be possible because deep red LED's have different electrical parameters than most "normal" LED's


jacko5 said:


> I dose 60ml once a week, i will up that once i get better lighting and more plants.
> 
> And i need a good light source, hence asking for advice in the first place.
> I really want to go the LED route as i want to set it up and forget about it.
> ...


----------



## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

FlyingHellFish said:


> And, in conclusion, I have no idea what we're arguing about.
> 
> I was telling the guy, he didn't need those weird funky colours if what he was growing, keeping, looking at, wasn't going to use them.


Well I'm not really arguing anything "reefer".. 
But a summary.. Reefers don't "need" blue:


> The lower the K, the closer to the red end of the spectrum, generally the more coral growth. The higher K, the more blue, the better pop you will get on colors, but the slower the growth will be (generally speaking of course).


All they need is 6500k white.. 









Modern reef lighting for fun.. Count the colors..

As to PAR.. well if your light is low in certain beneficial colors them higher intensity makes up for this lack.. 
In other words reefers don't "need" high PAR (well let us quantify this as very high PAR) anymore than FW IF you have targeted spectrum LED's 
The reason halides work so well is because than the high output floods the tank w/ average crucial bandwidths, not because of gobs of light.
You could have a 1000 watts on a very low blue and it would probably not grow as well as a 100 watt targeted spectrum..
Reefers probably don't "need" the amount of PAR they believe they do..  at least if you frame it like "reefs need high PAR while FW doesn't"....
They both benefit equally if the quality of light is there and other parameters are met (ferts, water chemistry)
FW can "use" as much par as "practical" (no need to out PAR the sun in general)..

As to the "colors".. That IS debatable but some wavelengths (which have LED equiv) are more beneficial than others.. Getting a specific color gives you less "waste light" therefore more PAR at less cost..
Technically Photosynthesis can use almost any color, but not w/ the same benefits..
Can you use a one color array i.e 6500k and be done w/ it. YES..
but if can improve power efficiency (which you can) and arguably improve color contrast w/ them, why wouldn't you use them??
And you give a choice of "looks".. and are not stuck w/ one color and an expensive fixture..

your not wrong argueing for one color.. but your not exactly right either..

One more thing.. If I was growing corals for wholesale I'd use 6500K and "be done with it".. If I had a reef tank, I'd want it not only healthy but look good and be flexible so I'd choose multi colored LED's..


----------



## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

One more thing:


> C: Chlorophyll synthesis is the chemical reactions and pathways by the plant hormone cytokinin soon after exposure to the correct Nanometers wave length (about 670 NM) of light resulting in the formation of chlorophyll, resulting in continued growth of a plant, algae, zooxanthellae and the ability to “feed” and propagate, and without this aspect PAR (670 NM light energy), zooxanthellae and plants cannot properly “feed” propagate. The results of the lack of this high PAR “spike” would be stunted freshwater plant growth, and eventually poor coral health in reef tanks


How much light in the 660nm range do you see in this graph of a "cool white" LED:










> The rest of the blue is absorbed by the Ce:YAG phosphor, and re-emitted in other wavelengths that make up the remainder (a broad-band yellow-tinted emission) of the LED's overall spectrum. The two overlap only slightly, leaving a fairly wide and deep gap in the cyan range (around 500 nm), and although the red range on the right (starting near 650 nm) is represented, it's pretty weak, especially deep red around 680 nm. Ideally we'd want more of the blue converted into cyan and red (while keeping the CCT the same), but that would cost us some efficiency as well as increase the complexity of the LED.


quoting saves "me" a lot of time......

The thread is interesting in it's own right:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...na-Buy-Cool-White-Again!-Join-Club-Here/page8
Why I may have given something up w/ my 3500k whites, which I replaced by 6500K white..note the red side








And why I do not favor.. "one color fits all"... 
I stand by
Channel 1 9 = (660nm) red: 9 = 6500k: 18 = 3500k for an effective temp of 3000k.

as an efficient high PAR channel.. albeit "red"..


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

For fun .. High PAR plant lights..








http://www.led4grow.nl/led-info/#


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## jacko5 (Jan 21, 2014)

Interesting reading :wink:

Jeff,
So now we have channel 1 at,

Channel 1 - 9 x Deep Red (660nm ) 9 x 6500k: 18 x 3500k 
For an effective temp of 3000k.

So we need channel 2 to be 2000k ? yes ? if i want 5000k on full power 
or am i missing something ?
Regards Jacko.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

jacko5 said:


> Interesting reading :wink:
> 
> Jeff,
> So now we have channel 1 at,
> ...


nope add and divide by 2
3000k full plus 7000k full= 10000k.. divide by 2 = 5000k

visual estimate (sorry values aren't "exact" but should be a good approximation


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## jacko5 (Jan 21, 2014)

Jeff,
Right so 7000k for the second channel.
What are your thoughts on which LEDs to put in there ?


----------



## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

jacko5 said:


> Jeff,
> Right so 7000k for the second channel.
> What are your thoughts on which LEDs to put in there ?


Depends.. My thinking is always to overcompensate channel 2 so IF 5000 isn't "pleasing" (and knowing going lower begins to get too yellow).
I wouldn't want it exactly at 5000 w/ channel 2 being full so it should be effectively higher than 7000K
The closer to 7000K the less light you will lose by dimming.. So there is a tradeoff.

channel 2: 9× 3w Royal blue, 9× 3w Cyan, 18× 3w 6500K 
This will be much higher than 7000K

To hit 7000k just eliminate royal blue and add to 6500K
channel 2: 9× 3w Cyan, 27 X 3w 6500K

Channel 1 9 = (660nm) red: 9 = 6500k: 18 = 3500k for an effective temp of 3000k.


Just keep in mind the restriction; Regardless of power output you will ... never exceed a 7000k temp or go below 3000k....

To err on the safe side (I do consider channel 1 "primary" and at full)
you could do:
channel 2: 3 X royal blue, 6× 3w Cyan, 27 X 3w 6500K (pushes you close to 10000K)


----------



## jacko5 (Jan 21, 2014)

Jeff,
Many thanks for all the info above.
I think the last channel 2 you put is best,

Channel 2: 3 x royal blue, 6× 3w Cyan, 27 X 3w 6500K (pushes you close to 10000K) 

But i could turn this channel down if needed.
The 3 x 54w 4ft T5 unit i am using now just about keeps my plants going.
So i am hoping the LEDs will be quite a bit better and make them grow and maybe pearl if i am lucky.
I am going to add liquid carbon to my ferts as co2 is not going to happen as my PH is 7 or under now.

So this is what i will put to the chinese seller,

*Channel 1 - 9 x Deep Red (660nm) , 9 x 6500k , 18 x 3500k
Channel 2 - 3 x Royal Blue, 6 x 3w Cyan, 27 x 3w 6500K*

All the above LEDs should be 3w ?

So running both channels on full power will give me 5000k ?

Regards Jacko.


----------



## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

jacko5 said:


> Jeff,
> Many thanks for all the info above.
> I think the last channel 2 you put is best,
> 
> ...


Without the royal blue yes, with it it will be slightly (not exactly sure how much) higher.. like 10000K and you will need to dim it.

IF you want the Royal blue and leave the ratios the same you can go down on white to 5000k and you will be slightly above 7000K TOTAL..

Full average will now again be at 5000K... 
as to wattage sure.


----------



## jacko5 (Jan 21, 2014)

Jeff,
Thanks.
I am going to keep the royal blue, so what should my 2 channels be ?
Thanks.


----------



## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

jacko5 said:


> Jeff,
> Thanks.
> I am going to keep the royal blue, so what should my 2 channels be ?
> Thanks.


*Channel 2 - 3 x Royal Blue, 6 × 3w Cyan, 27 X 3w 5000K*
*Channel 1 - 9 x Deep Red (660nm ) 9 x 6500k: 18 x 3500k *


----------



## jacko5 (Jan 21, 2014)

jeffkrol said:


> *Channel 2 - 3 x Royal Blue, 6 × 3w Cyan, 27 X 3w 5000K*
> *Channel 1 - 9 x Deep Red (660nm ) 9 x 6500k: 18 x 3500k *


Thanks.
So i will run channel 1 on full power and start off with channel 2 on 70% and work my way up until i get the desired effect.
I will email the china seller tomorrow.
Will post the results when it arrives after some testing.


----------



## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

jacko5 said:


> Thanks.
> So i will run channel 1 on full power and start off with channel 2 on 70% and work my way up until i get the desired effect.
> I will email the china seller tomorrow.
> Will post the results when it arrives after some testing.


One final word:
IF it was me, I'd "split the difference" and use 5700K and count on some dimming.
ANY will work, w/ the lower the K the less "possible" dimming.. 

LED manufacture leaves some room for fudging.. Your 5000 may be 4800 or 5200 ect.

Channel 2 - 3 x Royal Blue, 6 × 3w Cyan, 27 X 3w 5700K
Channel 1 - 9 x Deep Red (660nm ) 9 x 6500k: 18 x 3500k

Good luck.. I'll be waiting the results..


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## jacko5 (Jan 21, 2014)

jeffkrol said:


> One final word:
> IF it was me, I'd "split the difference" and use 5700K and count on some dimming.
> ANY will work, w/ the lower the K the less "possible" dimming..
> 
> ...


Thanks.
I will use the above.
Thanks for all your efforts, much appreciated.


----------



## jacko5 (Jan 21, 2014)

Jeff,
I have just had a 2 repies from the china seller.
What do you think,

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello wayne,

the told me, if the temperature is too low, the tank look no like nature( the plant under sun).
and they do not think 3500 is much useful for the plant compare with 8500.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello Wayne,

our engineer think the temperature of white is too low. they all suggest 

Channel 1 - 9 x 3w Deep Red (660nm ) 9 x 3w 8500k: 18 x 3w 6500k -- total 36 LEDs
Channel 2 - 3 x 3w Royal Blue, 6 × 3w Cyan, 27 x 3w 6500K -- total 36 LEDs

what do you think?

Best Regards
Rachel


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What kind of temp will i end up with both on full power ?

Regards Wayne.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

jacko5 said:


> Jeff,
> I have just had a 2 repies from the china seller.
> What do you think,
> 
> ...


This is the spectrum of CREE "whites"








This is the PAR spectrum:








COLORING aside which do you think has more "photosynthetically useable" output 5000+K or 3500k?
They are assuming you want 6500K which "by definition" is the "color" of full sunlight..
I have no issue in them "boosting" channel 2 color.. you can just dim it.. 
I have an issue in eliminating "warm white" from channel one.. 
buildmyled doesn't use LED's above 6500k so I can't easily estimate color BUT it might be close to 5000k
Of course the catch here is if you want a 5000k look channel 2 would be OFF.....


----------



## jacko5 (Jan 21, 2014)

Jeff,
Ok thanks.
So i will get 6500k and the tank will look yellow if i stick with what they say.
If i go with your option i will get 5700k and the water will look clear ?
Both channels on full power for both options above.
Sorry i just want to get this right before ordering.


----------



## Rooster (Apr 3, 2006)

I was told by another led supplier to mix 50/50 cool white and warm white, for best visual effect... But like yourself, don't want to layout money and be wrong! 

Sent using Tapatalk from my ZX81


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

jacko5 said:


> Jeff,
> Ok thanks.
> So i will get 6500k and the tank will look yellow if i stick with what they say.
> If i go with your option i will get 5700k and the water will look clear ?
> ...


i'm in a hurry but my best guess here is THERE channel 1 and 2 on full will be 7000K or higher blue


----------



## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Rooster said:


> I was told by another led supplier to mix 50/50 cool white and warm white, for best visual effect... But like yourself, don't want to layout money and be wrong!
> 
> Sent using Tapatalk from my ZX81


in his case it is a "cool white" channel and a "warm white" channel..

There is no difference except as to how many LEDs are used.
LIMITED personal experience, and that Cree graph lead me to suspect that the "warm white" is actually slightly better photosynthetically than "cool white" (inc. "neutral 6500K)
So I agree w/ your supplier.. it then comes down to "which" cool (neutral) or which "warm" to use to achieve a color temp goal..


----------



## jacko5 (Jan 21, 2014)

Jeff,
Ok i will wait till you have more time.
I need to make sure i buy the correct unit.
Regards Wayne.


----------



## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

jacko5 said:


> Jeff,
> Ok i will wait till you have more time.
> I need to make sure i buy the correct unit.
> Regards Wayne.


THIS is what buildmyled uses for 5000K
LED Selections per 12" Board: (11) 6500K Cool White, (4) 660nm Deep Red

Granted they don't use "higher K" whites i.e 8000 ect

*Channel 2 - 3 x Royal Blue, 6 × 3w Cyan, 27 X 3w 5000K*
*Channel 1 - 9 x Deep Red (660nm ) 9 x 6500k: 18 x 3500k 

*You can tweak them all you want. I can't exactly answer their opinion one way or another .
There "worry" is channel one is "yellow" and it will be..

switch the white quantities in channel one if you want
18x 6500k 9x 3500k but "personally" considering you have a blue channel and my "Belief" in the effect of 3500k I certainly wouldn't eliminate them..
My original was trying to utilize as much output as you can and keep 5000K in mind.
IF you have them do it "my way" the worst thing to happen would be to replace and re-solder a bunch of higher color temp LED.. 
Why don't you ask them to build 1 module and see.. they seem fairly willing to step outside the box here......

A "competitors" light:
Dimmer One (28 LEDs): 8x Cool White (12,000k), 6x Neutral White (7500k), 6x Warm White (3500k), 2x Red (660nm), 2x Green (520nm), 4x Violet (420nm)

- Dimmer Two (27 LEDs): 7x Royal Blue (450nm), 20x Blue (460nm)









What I would change for me..without even much thought.. 

Dimmer One (28 LEDs): 10x 6500K, 9x Warm White (3500k), 9x Red (660nm), effectively 3500K

- Dimmer Two (27 LEDs): 7x Royal Blue (450nm), 10x 7000k, 10 cyan (turquoise) (infinity K.. )

Creating any color temp (within reason) from 3500k (which nobody really likes.. ) to BLUE..

one of MANY combinations..


----------



## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

jacko5 said:


> Jeff,
> Ok i will wait till you have more time.
> I need to make sure i buy the correct unit.
> Regards Wayne.


THE original I designed is def. 3500K w a hint of yellow..
It will not be "pretty" (personal taste) by itself.. 

*Channel 1 - 9 x Deep Red (660nm ) 9 x 6500k: 18 x 3500k 
*BUT you NEED it below 5000k in order to have full-ish benefit to the blue channel..

Think of it this way.. IF you want 5000K .. so you just use 5000K led's in channel 1.. You don't even NEED channel 2.. unless you make those all 5000k

As a point of reference though. what was designed should give you over 5000k at full power.. This is a fudge factor so IF you think 5000k is not the right color, you can adjust it ..w/ little loss of overall power.

Do keep in mind that all of this is partially "theoretical" based on the actual output and blending characteristics of the LED's.. but I see nothing blatantly wrong in my assumptions...

The final decision does rest w/ you though.


----------



## jacko5 (Jan 21, 2014)

Jeff,
Once again thanks.
Why do LEDs have to be so complicated.
I have decided i am not bothered about 5000k i only wanted that after seeing the 5000k built on the link in this thread, i liked the "see through" water look.
As long as the light is bright enough, i get the "see through" water look, and the plants grow well then all is fine.
I know you must be sick of this thread and wished you had never replied :icon_sad:
I just thought it would not be this complicated, or is it me being unreasonable :icon_cry:
Regards Wayne.


----------



## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

jacko5 said:


> Jeff,
> Once again thanks.
> Why do LEDs have to be so complicated.
> I have decided i am not bothered about 5000k i only wanted that after seeing the 5000k built on the link in this thread, i liked the "see through" water look.
> ...


It's complicated for a few reasons 
1)plants and the human eye have different "needs"..
2)you are spending good money
3)"the world" gives you too many choices..
4) you haven't got to the "leap of faith" part yet..without "seeing" the "believing" part is hard

My personal take was I had 15W of 3500K lighting and added 29W red on one channel and 30w "blue" on another over a 40gal breeder tank .. I can mimic many, many color temps..by selective dimming. Was was not too worried about "full" output. 
Due to some poor design choices on my part I opted to replace the 3500K channel w/ a 6500K channel.. Makes the tank "whiter" w/ a hint of blue at full (the red channel is never full due to it being overpowering..but most of that is due to choosing 10W mega chips.. not very blend-able.. 

I designed the lighting to give you choices.. and hopefully the better (can't say best) choices based on your parameters..

As long as the final output is not blue nor yellow.. you will be fine.. 
I choose white rocks for decore.. as long as they are not blue I'm fine w/ any shade to "yellow" though yellowish is more "natural" for many fw environments..

Those "engineers" are pretty strong "coral" bent.. w/ "full spectrum" being their only other "thought".

*Channel 1 - 9 x Deep Red (660nm ) 9 x 6500k: 18 x 3500k *

As I said.. just switch quantities on the 35/65k 18x 6500K 9 x 3500K 1:3 ratio of "red" to "white" should be fine for color blending.. 
Not sure why "the engineers" shy away from the 3500K ones though....

Ask yourself this .. what "color" is sunrise/sunset.. and how would you achieve this if your lights don't go below.. say 5000K?


----------



## jacko5 (Jan 21, 2014)

Jeff,
Ok i am going to go with this,

*Channel 1 - 9 x Deep Red (660nm ) 9 x 6500k: 18 x 3500k *
*Channel 2 - 3 x Royal Blue, 6 × 3w Cyan, 27 X 3w 5700K

or 

Channel 1 - 9 x Deep Red (660nm ) 9 x 3500k: 18 x 6500k 
Channel 2 - 3 x Royal Blue, 6 × 3w Cyan, 27 X 3w 5700K

I am not going for 8000k LEDs.
Going off all the info in this thread i think either of the above will give me what i need with a good deal of dimming if needed.
Thanks for everything.
Regards Wayne.
*


----------



## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

jacko5 said:


> Jeff,
> Ok i am going to go with this,
> 
> *Channel 1 - 9 x Deep Red (660nm ) 9 x 6500k: 18 x 3500k *
> ...


Err. increase the blue a bit....... 6500K for the 5700K (at the very least).. You left little headroom in "cooling" the light of channel 1............
ESPECIALLY if you go w/ the higher 3500K count in ch. 1.....

Granted if you don't you will have to dim channel 1..
Most of what I designed involves dimming ch 2 because ch1 is the most photosynthetically active (a bit arguable)

I am basing this on the fact that , in reality, you will like a bit higher temp than ave. 5000K........... 

If I caused some confusion, it was my mistake..

Not sure how I drifted so low w/ the blue from my orig.. my mistake:
Channel 1 9 red: 9 3500k: 18 6500k
Channel 2 6 Royal blue :6 cyan :12 6500k


I think we are BOTH over-thinking this............... 
Past discussion:



> channel 2: 9× 3w Royal blue, 9× 3w Cyan, 18× 3w 6500K
> This will be much higher than 7000K
> 
> To hit 7000k just eliminate royal blue and add to 6500K
> ...


----------



## jacko5 (Jan 21, 2014)

Jeff,
Lo i am sure both of us have lost touch with whats going on from when this thread first started.

So the final configuration to send to the chinese seller is,
*
Channel 1 - 9 x 3w Deep Red 660nm, 9 x 3w 3500k, 18 x 3w 6500k
Channel 2 - 6 x 3w Royal Blue, 6 x 3w Cyan, 12 x 3w 6500k*

If yes i will get this sent today and the next time you will here from me is when it arrives and i test it.
I will insist they use the above even if they say another configuration roud:
Kind Regards Wayne.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

jacko5 said:


> Jeff,
> Lo i am sure both of us have lost touch with whats going on from when this thread first started.
> 
> So the final configuration to send to the chinese seller is,
> ...


sounds good.. you have plenty of light in one channel alone for good growth.. 
I feel like it is my light.. LOL........ 

errr one channel is 24 one 36 LED's
send them these ,tell them to match as close as possible.. use white for any chip count mismatch

















LED's NOT IN THAT ORDER btw..

Keep in mind w/ channel 2 off (temporarily) and ramping up channel 1 your "sunrise" will not be a lower "color temp" than 4000+K
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_temperature


> Sunlight: Sunrise of Sunset 2000
> Sunlight: One Hour After Sunrise 3500
> Sunlight: Early Morning or Late Afternoon 4300


http://www.apogeephoto.com/july2004/jaltengarten7_2004.shtml


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## jacko5 (Jan 21, 2014)

Jeff,
Thanks.
I have sent them both pics and asked them to replicate them.
Also asked them to send me the LED layout before they go ahead.
Will post on here when i get more info.
Regards Wayne.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

jacko5 said:


> Jeff,
> Thanks.
> I have sent them both pics and asked them to replicate them.
> Also asked them to send me the LED layout before they go ahead.
> ...


Good, I just threw that together this morning.. Obviously the LED's need more regular spacing..


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## jacko5 (Jan 21, 2014)

Jeff,
Any chance you can do channel 2 for me.
I have sent them pics and they say they cannot see them as they are to small.
I sent them using there messaging system, it must be crap lol.
They are now asking if i can send them 2 channels done to my spec .. well to your spec hehe.

So we have this for now,

Channel 1 - 9 x 3w Deep Red 660nm, 9 x 3w 3500k, 18 x 3w 6500k
Channel 2 - 6 x 3w Royal Blue, 6 x 3w Cyan, 12 x 3w 6500k


Just needs channel 2 sorting out.
I say just, it must need a good looking at.
Sorry to be a pain again.
Regards Wayne.


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## ficco (Apr 22, 2014)

hi, can u give us feedback on your custom leds layout setup??? im coming to buy one of this dsuny lights for my planted tank, and i want to ask the chinese seller your leds setup suggest from jeff...
and pls , can u say me the exact diagram and colors of the leds that u have???
sorry for my english, thanks


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

ficco said:


> hi, can u give us feedback on your custom leds layout setup??? im coming to buy one of this dsuny lights for my planted tank, and i want to ask the chinese seller your leds setup suggest from jeff...
> and pls , can u say me the exact diagram and colors of the leds that u have???
> sorry for my english, thanks



You can check his setup here:
http://youtu.be/kHX1hosIgzE
http://youtu.be/jFzfLmBmfDc


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## ficco (Apr 22, 2014)

jeffkrol said:


> You can check his setup here:
> http://youtu.be/kHX1hosIgzE
> http://youtu.be/jFzfLmBmfDc


yes thanks jeff i have see that videos already..... and i have found this too

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=609562

i think the diagram in post #2 is that jacko has ordered....can u confirm??

if u confirm or u can suggest me changes i will proced with order the leds configuration layout u say

im just curious from jacko if algaes are present with that light and how the plants is going....

anyways i have only a dubt, that blu and cyano leds. natural white 3700k-5000k leds mixed with warm white and 6500k white dont do the same works?

i have see some configurations with ratio 1:1:1:1 warm:neutralred
i dont know whats better, u are more expert than me...


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

ficco said:


> snip


Well I'm no expert. I was hoping he would respond.
Last I knew he was doing some algae fighting (those lights are high light after all)

I'd have to go through my responses to see what was actually built.. though it is not hard to figure from the video..

As to satisfaction.. he hasn't been cussing at me.. 

Give me a bit and I'll see if I can find the final layout..


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## ficco (Apr 22, 2014)

ok thanks jeff for the reply and layout... i have sended it to seller.... anyways, how controller work??? the controller has 2 channel and its full programmable.... i think i cant set a moon light for that 6500k leds on channel 2....right?

how can i set this 2 channels layout for sunset etc etc???? i mean whats the % of light for channel 1 and 2 and the timers for a good simulation of the day??? take care that my very important first priority is a good light from plants


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

ficco said:


> ok thanks jeff for the reply and layout... i have sended it to seller.... anyways, how controller work??? the controller has 2 channel and its full programmable.... i think i cant set a moon light for that 6500k leds on channel 2....right?
> 
> how can i set this 2 channels layout for sunset etc etc???? i mean whats the % of light for channel 1 and 2 and the timers for a good simulation of the day??? take care that my very important first priority is a good light from plants


Not too familiar w/ the whole nuts and bolts of the controller but what I do know is it only steps in 10% increments.. o..10%.. 20% ect...
And you have 2 channels.. a red/white and a blue/white channel..

Unfortunately, from my perspective, this isn't exactly good enough for "true" sunrise sunset effects but better than nothing.. Just stagger the 2 channels starting ch1 first then channel 2 say after ch1 reaches 20% then go ch 2 at 10% then step up from there.. 
Hopefully they will improve their programming eventually.. As to moon/season phases.. no clue how that works..

There is plenty of light.. in even one channel..


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## jacko5 (Jan 21, 2014)

Ok guys going to post some answers tomorrow.
Been busy of late and only saw this thread after a PM from Jeff.
Will be online again tomorrow night .. UK time.


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## jacko5 (Jan 21, 2014)

Ok here goes.
The light is very bright and clear.
You can only do 10% at a time in each channel.
I would say the light is good for a high lighted tank if that makes sense.
If you contact dsuny and ask cindy lee for the same lights as mine i am sure she will be able to sort you out.
They cost about 300gbp delivered, as its a custom setup and i had about 20gbp import fees, as it was a lower value wink wink.
If not PM me and i will chat with her on your behalf.
The plants respond well, but at the moment i am suffering from algae problems, i am sure once i get the setting correct this will be fine.
It just needs fine tuning.
I have set my own settings up as default is way to bright and the lights stay on to long.
At the moment this is my settings may or may not need more fine tuning.

‎26 ‎April ‎2014 
DSunY LED Photo-period Settings For Planted Tank
Channel 1 White Channel 2 Blue
11pm to 11am 0% - 11pm to 11am 0%
11am to 12am 0% - 11am to 12am 0%
12am to 1pm 10% - 12am to 1pm 10%
1pm to 4pm 90% - 1pm to 4pm 80%
4pm to 7pm 60% - 4pm to 7pm 50%
7pm to 8pm 50% - 7pm to 8pm 40%
8pm to 9pm 30% - 8pm to 9pm 20%
9pm to 10pm 0% - 9pm to 10pm 10%
10pm to 11pm 0% - 10pm to 11pm 10%
11pm to 12pm 0% - 11pm to 12pm 0%

I do not bother with sunrise etc, the lights just fade into a very nice moon glow at night on 10% blue only channel on.
The algae i am getting is on the glass and hair algae on the plants, i think this is just by having to much light.
I use my own ferts and have just started using glut 1.5% to get the algea down a bit, as well as lowering the lights power as well.
Going to give it 2 weeks to see if the changes work.
Both white and blue channels are fully adjustable to your needs.
My aquarium is 6 ft x 2ft x 2ft and i have 3 led panels.
The panel Jeff has shown above is the layout i have.
Once again thanks Jeff excellent lights at a great price.
I would not hesitate to buy the lights again.

For anyone who wants the same system here are the contact details you need,
[email protected] Quote this " I am Wayne's friend" and ask for details or what ever info you need.
Hope this helps someone.


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## Greg0u812 (Dec 29, 2013)

I didn't know DSunY would do a custom setup on the lights!
I have had the UT3-FS (stock configuration) running for a while and have been quite impressed with the lights. Plant growth has been CRAZY!
I just run the stock Winter program with lunar cycle on.
It is a long cycle of lighting, but seems to work for me. I started with a bunch of small water wisteria (4-6" (along with a large load of other plants  )).
The wisteria now is bending at the top of the tank and seriously needs to be cut back (will be placing the trimmings in a 30 gallon bowfront I recently acquired). This is only after a few weeks of getting everything set up an running. No CO2 yet.

I will also add that I did have an issue that proved (to me) how good these lights are. The center brace on my 125 decided to separate itself from the front of the tank. I came home to find the entire set of lights at the bottom of the tank. The LEDS were still going!
I pulled everything out, opened the lights up and dried them out real good. After taking care of the issue with the brace, I did have to replace 3 wires in the light panels. Was amazed they were still working with the failed wires!
Once everything was good and fixed back up, filled the tank, put the lights back on top, fired them up and all has been good since then.

I originally wanted a different brand, but couldn't get the programming options I wanted.
Now...
I am looking at either buying 2 UT1-FS's or seeing if I can add 2 single panels (with long cables) for 2 smaller tanks. I really would rather just buy the panels so that the lighting is 100% in synch across the three tanks (all in the same room).
Will try and get hold of them in the morning to see if this can happen.


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## jrman83 (Nov 22, 2010)

^ I hope you repaired the center brace. You will eventually have a tank disaster if you don't. 

Sent with my Samsung S4 via Tapatalk


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## Greg0u812 (Dec 29, 2013)

jrman83 said:


> ^ I hope you repaired the center brace. You will eventually have a tank disaster if you don't.
> 
> Sent with my Samsung S4 via Tapatalk


Yeah, center brace was properly prepared.

I don't know what kept the thing from exploding when that thing cut loose.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Greg0u812 said:


> I didn't know DSunY would do a custom setup on the lights!


If you knew the whole story it wasn't QUITE that simple.. Seemed as much as they hyped their flexibility it wasn't really that simple.. 
Was almost like the Ford story "you can have any color as long as it is black"
....
Eventually they came around..


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## jacko5 (Jan 21, 2014)

jeffkrol said:


> If you knew the whole story it wasn't QUITE that simple.. Seemed as much as they hyped their flexibility it wasn't really that simple..
> Was almost like the Ford story "you can have any color as long as it is black"
> ....
> Eventually they came around..


Very true Jeff, but we got there in the end.
These are my settings now, not much algae growth,

‎27 ‎April ‎2014 
DSunY LED Photo-period Settings For Planted Tank
Channel 1 White Channel 2 
11pm to 11am 0% - 11pm to 11am 0%
11am to 12am 0% - 11am to 12am 0%
12am to 1pm 0% - 12am to 1pm 10%
1pm to 4pm 50% - 1pm to 4pm 50%
4pm to 7pm 50% - 4pm to 7pm 50%
7pm to 8pm 50% - 7pm to 8pm 50%
8pm to 9pm 50% - 8pm to 9pm 50%
9pm to 10pm 0% - 9pm to 10pm 10%
10pm to 11pm 0% - 10pm to 11pm 10%
11pm to 12pm 0% - 11pm to 12pm 0%

Yes i know 50% power, but these are very powerful lights.
I may turn them up a bit at a later date as i get more plants, trying to fill a 6ft tank is expensive.
I have had no water damage problems as i have glass sliders on my aquarium.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

jacko5 said:


> Very true Jeff, but we got there in the end.
> These are my settings now, not much algae growth,
> 
> ‎27 ‎April ‎2014
> ...


hmm think I mentioned at one time that one channel had plenty of power.. 

Nice thing is plants grow... and w/ good ferts CO2 yours should fill in fast...

Find some "water wysteria" and it will fill the tanks in months.. freaking "weed".. 

seems it is finally taming down at bit..good


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## Greg0u812 (Dec 29, 2013)

jeffkrol said:


> hmm think I mentioned at one time that one channel had plenty of power..
> 
> Nice thing is plants grow... and w/ good ferts CO2 yours should fill in fast...
> 
> ...


Months???

I run the Winter schedule on the DSunY's and half of my tank filled in in a few weeks (good ferts and no C02 yet)! I will have to look at what the hours and percentages are, but I don't think the Winter program ever gets over 50%.

I'm going to trim a bunch of it back and do some replanting tomorrow and (hopefully) get the C02 system going.

I LOVE that wysteria!


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## Nomadz (May 4, 2012)

Did you guys order your lights directly from DSuny or via another reseller?
I am looking to buy a set for my 6x2x2 shortly and just wondered whether you ended up getting the new 180cm UT3-FS intelligent fully programmable full spectrum led lights (1 x controller and 3 x Panels) or did you get the UT4-FS-L version?

Regards Steve


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## jacko5 (Jan 21, 2014)

Nomadz said:


> Did you guys order your lights directly from DSuny or via another reseller?
> I am looking to buy a set for my 6x2x2 shortly and just wondered whether you ended up getting the new 180cm UT3-FS intelligent fully programmable full spectrum led lights (1 x controller and 3 x Panels) or did you get the UT4-FS-L version?
> 
> Regards Steve


I got the UT3-FS but with the led combo Jeff recommended.
Also got them from DSUNY direct.
Look on you tube at my videos, and there is an email to get in touch
with DSUNY direct.


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## Nomadz (May 4, 2012)

jacko5 said:


> I got the UT3-FS but with the led combo Jeff recommended.
> Also got them from DSUNY direct.
> Look on you tube at my videos, and there is an email to get in touch
> with DSUNY direct.


Thanks.
Speaking with Rachael at the moment to work out best combo for my setup.

Whats the difference between the standard config and what you went with:

Standard UT3-FS (3 panels @5400k)
Channel 1:
36 white
3 red
3 green

Channel 2:
21 Royal blue
18 blue
3 purple

What differences were you looking for? was it to move more towards 7200k which is obtained with 4 panels or something else?

Regards Steve


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Nomadz said:


> Thanks.
> Speaking with Rachael at the moment to work out best combo for my setup.
> 
> Whats the difference between the standard config and what you went with:
> ...


So we have this for now,



> Channel 1 - 9 x 3w Deep Red 660nm, 9 x 3w 3500k, 18 x 3w 6500k
> Channel 2 - 6 x 3w Royal Blue, 6 x 3w Cyan, 12 x 3w 6500k


----------



## Nomadz (May 4, 2012)

jeffkrol said:


> So we have this for now,


Thanks. So before I place my order could I ask whether the custom design worked as designed (e.g balancing both channels to achieve 5000k clear water).

Do you know if Dsuny did any internal review of your design to compare their default layout with what your design and whether they provided any feedback on which one would produce a better planted tank configuration ?

If I was to place these under my 6x2x2 hood on top of tank frame would I get the same result as you have by hanging them ?
By not hanging them would I need to change any LED combination to get 2ft depth ?

Thanks guys... will take this discussion back to OZ and see what our forum experts think of this custom design....

If you can provide any positive/negative feedback on lights, shipment, after purchase support that would be great... looking forward in replacing my 4 x 39w T5HO for these lights.....

Regards Steve


----------



## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Nomadz said:


> Thanks. So before I place my order could I ask whether the custom design worked as designed (e.g balancing both channels to achieve 5000k clear water).
> 
> Do you know if Dsuny did any internal review of your design to compare their default layout with what your design and whether they provided any feedback on which one would produce a better planted tank configuration ?
> 
> ...


you can see what the light really looks like here:
http://youtu.be/lkq9rr8NQtc

Th "effective K" value will vary by the different channels relative intensity... (Dimming on one or another)..

Not sure what DSunY did (or study) except to produce it..
Using 660nm red and cyan LED's is a bit more of a hassle and possibly expense than their stock configuration..

I believe we changed the "additive K" to higher than 5000K.. but I have forgotten exactly what the 2x100% came to.. 
Looking at he tank it is probably more in the 10000K range.. 
Dimming the "blue" channel will decrease K proportionally. 

There was an issue w/ exactly what "whites" (K wise)DSunY had or were willing to use..

Jacko5 should have the details..
..DSunY has the configuration on file.. Looking up at the posted numbers.. I think I have to find the "final" layout.. There was a confusion of how many LED's per board

Board layout:









channel 1 alone is 4000k-ish..........
Channel 2 was quite high say 20000K 

Final composite at full is probably closer to 10000K..but w/ out the stark blueness usually associated w/ it..

The 4000K total at initial target was changed as this proceeded...
The RB make the "guesstimate" of ch. 2's K value a bit problematic.

to get an additive 4000K we would have had to basically get rid of all 6500K in ch 1 (using 3500K) to decrease the K value to around 2000K-ish and redesigning the blue to 6000K..
both are easily done w what DsunY has in stock..but the problem was "I" wanted to use a larger pallette of whites.. (4000, 8000's ect) which they didn't have on hand.. So we changed the target.
also since there were sooo many "watts" it was decided to allow a high blue and a not so deep red channel..Bottom line we designed w/ caution in mind.. 

Fact is LED's aren't always precise.. a 6500K LED has a "range" of K's to begin with unless they are ind. tested and "binned".. which to be honest, most mauf probably don't do to a precise level..
cost ineffective..

There is always room for tweaking....... and 4000K isn't exactly the "clean white" that people think it is..


----------



## Nomadz (May 4, 2012)

jeffkrol said:


> you can see what the light really looks like here:
> http://youtu.be/lkq9rr8NQtc
> 
> Th "effective K" value will vary by the different channels relative intensity... (Dimming on one or another)..
> ...


Thanks for you prompt reply, much appreciated.

When going through the last custom design you mentioned this:
Channel 1 - 9 x 3w Deep Red 660nm, 9 x 3w 3500k, 18 x 3w 6500k
Channel 2 - 6 x 3w Royal Blue, 6 x 3w Cyan, 12 x 3w 6500k

This = a total of 60 LEDs so if 3 panels were used then that is 20 LEDs per panel; however, your layout pic has 28 LEDs per panel so their must be a difference somewhere.

Also, looking through DSuny website last night I did notice they now have a new fresh water configuration (UT1-FW) light that has a White Channel and Blue Channel configuration with a total of 28 x 3W LEDs = 8500k:

Channel 1: 14 x 6500k White
Channel 2: 10 x 450nm Royal Blue, 2 x 520nm Green, and 2 x 660nm Red

As I need 3 panels to go across my heavily planted 6x2x2 tank that will give me a total of 252 watts.

It would be good to get the final custom design so we can compare as the configuration changed a fair bit during the thread.

Whats your thoughts on their new default configuration for the UT1-FW ?
How would this compare to the custom design?

Also noticed that Jacko5 has uploaded a CO2 video to youtube last week so his tank is still being improved. I already have pressurised CO2 and fert daily so only lights have to be improved to be able to grow med/adv plants.

Regards Steve


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Yes the LED count got a bit mixed up. 
Image is the correct one.. 

As to the "new" Dsuny.. well at least they are trying. Unfortunately is is really 
a reef light. That config. is the newest "flavor of the day" for reef tanks calling it "full spectrum.. More or less....(well no violet or UV and a few less blue)









Ch2, no matter how dim is blue.. coupled w/ 6500k whites you can never go down in K value from 6500...only up.. so not my cup of tea....

as to the original count:
2 channels 14 each per panel
1)3-RB, 3-Cyan 8-6500Kwhite
2)4-3500k white, 3-660nm red, 7-6500K white

Fun w/ LED "calculator"
http://www.1023world.net/diy/spectra/
http://www.bmlcustom.com/

A Note regarding the dimming function of the Dsuny.. It is only good for 10% increments every minute I believe..which may or may not be important to some.....


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