# Safe T Sorb as a substrate



## foster (Sep 23, 2012)

Considering using Safe T Sorb in a planted tank. I've read the CEC is great, and it help drop the KH of the water drastically. Now the real dilemma. ITS DIRTY. LOL Just wondering if anyone has experience with using this product in their planted tanks. If so were the tanks hard to clear up after installing this stuff? Everything sounds like pros with this product except the cloudy water.!!


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## grizzly_a (Sep 9, 2014)

foster said:


> Considering using Safe T Sorb in a planted tank. I've read the CEC is great, and it help drop the KH of the water drastically. Now the real dilemma. ITS DIRTY. LOL Just wondering if anyone has experience with using this product in their planted tanks. If so were the tanks hard to clear up after installing this stuff? Everything sounds like pros with this product except the cloudy water.!!


Unless you already have soft water...that can be a detractor also.

I will tell you a tale of 2 bags. (actually 3, but we'll go with 2)

The first bag I got I sifted and placed in the bucket. Washed, washed, washed, washed. Let it sit, washed it again. Let it sit, washed. Repeated this for about 2-3 months (cause I didn't have a tank for it yet). I would top off the water as it evaporated and then rinse it again until the water ran clear. I then added it to a tank. It felt "softer" to me, and I have never gotten the dirt out of it. I added it to the tank, it was extremely cloudy, and I have to deep vacuum it every week and get out the dirt that accumulates. looks like muddy water. I'm not happy with how cloudy it gets, and how the dust settles on the plants.  But it does clear up.

I bought 2 more bags of it, sifted it, washed it until it ran clean and added it to a different tank as a dirt cap. It's harder, doesn't cloud the water, and "so far" has been great! It seems like it was harder (baked longer) and therefore doesn't break down like the first bag.

Moral of the story....with cheap substrate you might get a winner or you might get a dud. It depends on the bag. If you don't like how it's turning out, buy a different bag from a different store or wait a little bit if you can to see if you've got a bad batch like I did.

I also use ProsChoice SoilMaster Select Red in 2 other tanks, and I really like it. The color is really light for most substrate choices, maybe an amazon or african tank biotype, but the grain size and hardness is fantastic. I wish they made it in Black. I'm using it as a cap in a growout tank so the color doesn't bother me.

The STS and ProsChoice Red are both montmorillionite clays. I'm also interested in AgSorb Gray since it comes in a variety of sieve sizes. All the listed products are part of the Oil-Dri Corporation.


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## FatherLandDescendant (Jul 24, 2014)

I too have a "tale of 2 bags". 

The first bag of STS I used I split it between a 10gal and a 29gal. I didn't rinse it in either tank, the 10gal wasn't to cloudy, the 29gal was so cloudy I couldn't see 1/8" into the tank it was straight muddy water and I thought that I had made a serious mistake by not rinsing it. I filled a canister filter with pillow stuffing and let it run all night, within 12 hours the water was crystal clear and is so to this day, that tank is 4 months old.

The second bag I used on my 40b CO2 injected tank, though this time I not only sifted it with a strainer, but I also rinsed it after sifting before putting it into the bucket I was using to transfer it into the house. When I filled that tank it was still cloudy but not as bad as it was when I did my 29gal, you could barely tell the water had a brown tint to it, I set a canister filter the same way and over night it was crystal clear. My 40b was nice and clear until this past week when I shut the light off for a few days while I was waiting to replace my CO2 tank and I personally think the issue is either bacterial because I recently increased the stock just a week prior to having to go for 4 days on reduced lighting, or it's a floating diatom issue created during those 4 days of reduced lighting, I really haven't had the chance to check out this tank with the light on since bringing this tank back to "normal operations" 2 days ago when I got my CO2 tank and set the light back on its' normal scheduled.

A couple of differences between my 29gal and my 40b. In the 29gal diatoms didn't present until the 3rd month and it wasn't what I would consider bad, I put a lone otto in and he cleaned the tank within a week.

In the 40b within a month diatoms started showing up and I'm not real sure about the "why" it's different. 

STS does mess with the kH at least early on until the sub gets its' equilibrium. I have read that eventually the tendency for it to drop the kH is a temporary affect. In my 40b it's been a nightmare trying to keep the kH stable enough to inject CO2 consistently with a pH probe and the kH has to be monitored constantly. In my 29gal no CO2 I haven't even tested it and don't worry about it, the fish seem fine and the plants are doing wonderfully so I don't worry about that tank, I only change the water once a month and give it ferts once every other week, my 40b gets a 75% WC weekly and EI ferts dosed daily with baking soda as needed to keep my kH stable.


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## grizzly_a (Sep 9, 2014)

A little off-topic, but I'd like to add that the Pros-Choice Soilmaster Red was the easiest substrate to work with. After the normal sifting for size and a quick rinse (Like fill a bucket and slosh it around to get the dust off) it went straight into the tank. No cloudiness, etc. It was easier than EcoComplete, and the added benefit it's not sharp like Eco.
I just like the color of STS better.


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

I have used:
Soil Master Select Charcoal (3-4 bags)- discontinued.
Turface (one of the tan-orangey colors) (1 bag)- discontinued. 
Safe-T-Sorb (3 bags).

All 3 products clouded the water at first. 
I rinsed the SMS in a bucket, so there was less clouding. 
The others, I just dumped them in the tank and rinsed them in there. Partially filling, stirring a lot, then siphoning out the water several times. 

All the tanks still generate clouds that are not mulm, but seem to be dust from the substrate material. Not much, and there is no dust as long as I do not disturb the substrate. But it does make it difficult to replant- this kicks up the dust. 

I am not sure if some of the material is softer than others.


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## foster (Sep 23, 2012)

grizzly_a said:


> A little off-topic, but I'd like to add that the Pros-Choice Soilmaster Red was the easiest substrate to work with. After the normal sifting for size and a quick rinse (Like fill a bucket and slosh it around to get the dust off) it went straight into the tank. No cloudiness, etc. It was easier than EcoComplete, and the added benefit it's not sharp like Eco.
> I just like the color of STS better.


 Where did you get your Pros-Choice. Would you happen to have a pic of it in your tank?

Bump:


FatherLandDescendant said:


> I too have a "tale of 2 bags".
> 
> The first bag of STS I used I split it between a 10gal and a 29gal. I didn't rinse it in either tank, the 10gal wasn't to cloudy, the 29gal was so cloudy I couldn't see 1/8" into the tank it was straight muddy water and I thought that I had made a serious mistake by not rinsing it. I filled a canister filter with pillow stuffing and let it run all night, within 12 hours the water was crystal clear and is so to this day, that tank is 4 months old.
> 
> ...


Not too worried about KH/PH swings. The tank will be used for propagating soft water plants, and will contain no fish. I would actually be happy if it lowered the KH.


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## grizzly_a (Sep 9, 2014)

I got mine locally at a farmers co-op. I don't know what you have over there, but go find a local high school and ask the guys working the landscaping where they buy their infield conditioner. You have a John Deere Landscapes dealer fairly close, give them a call and ask for Turface Heritage Red. Alternatively you can call Oil-Dri and ask for their product distributors for your state.

I'll post a pic later.


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## sadchevy (Jun 15, 2013)

I use STS in all my tanks (10 total). Great for a plant substrate. I have never rinsed it prior to putting it in the tanks. I just fill with enough water to completely cover by about 2 inches then give a quick stir and siphon off as much as possible. Then i add more water to about a couple inches deep and plant. Fill it up, water will cloud for a few hours, but I help clear it up with pillow stuffing in the filter. After 2-3 days I'll setup my filter with proper filter media.
STS has its problems, but most are minor. It will lower KH and PH for awhile, then it stabilizes. It does create dust clouds when planting or rearranging, usually clears in an hour or less. If you are careful and go slowly, you can minimize the dust clouds.
My overall experience with it has been great. Plants grow well in it, cories love it, it looks natural, and its cheap. I won't use anything else now.


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## grizzly_a (Sep 9, 2014)

Here's a pic of the Pro's Choice SoilMaster Select Red. You can still get this stuff, but Turface is more prominent.


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## Aquaticz (Dec 26, 2009)

I have used oil dri . First things first... Do not rinse! I have had very successful results after it calms down. It does not hold well and you must learn how to plant in it. Like most things in this hobby it is all about patience. LOL any body have any? However I probably will never use again unless I lose my job - AS is far superior imho



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## will5 (Sep 30, 2005)

I've had Soil Master Slect Charcoal in my tank for a little over 2yrs now and I LOVE IT....I did wash it first which took all of an hour....still have half a bag left and I have to convince the life every time she cleans not to throw it away. Lol She doesn't understand that you just can't find this stuff anymore or how great it really is. Lol

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

foster said:


> Considering using Safe T Sorb in a planted tank. I've read the CEC is great, and it help drop the KH of the water drastically. Now the real dilemma. ITS DIRTY. LOL Just wondering if anyone has experience with using this product in their planted tanks. If so were the tanks hard to clear up after installing this stuff? Everything sounds like pros with this product except the cloudy water.!!


Its dirty, its super lightweight, it drastically changes water parameters, its not the best color. 

I used it for about a year in my 75g and I don't recommend it to anyone. I hate the stuff with a passion.


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## grizzly_a (Sep 9, 2014)

Aquaticz said:


> I have used oil dri . First things first... Do not rinse! I have had very successful results after it calms down. It does not hold well and you must learn how to plant in it. Like most things in this hobby it is all about patience. LOL any body have any? However I probably will never use again unless I lose my job - AS is far superior imho


Why no rinsing? I'm sure AS (Aquasoil) is superior, but it's also $45 for 16lbs, whereas STS is $13 for 50lbs. Yes, it's a bit lighter, but didn't have much trouble planting anything that wasn't already mature.



will5 said:


> I've had Soil Master Slect Charcoal in my tank for a little over 2yrs now and I LOVE IT....I did wash it first which took all of an hour....still have half a bag left and I have to convince the life every time she cleans not to throw it away. Lol She doesn't understand that you just can't find this stuff anymore or how great it really is. Lol


Did you sift it, or just use it right out of the bag?


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## terran2k (Feb 24, 2009)

I tried using STS on my 55g when i first set it up a couple years back.
I remember it being to light (weight wise) under water.
I scooped it all out and ran dirt capped with gravel.


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## will5 (Sep 30, 2005)

grizzly_a said:


> Why no rinsing? I'm sure AS (Aquasoil) is superior, but it's also $45 for 16lbs, whereas STS is $13 for 50lbs. Yes, it's a bit lighter, but didn't have much trouble planting anything that wasn't already mature.
> 
> 
> 
> Did you sift it, or just use it right out of the bag?


Poured it into a bucket stuck my garden hose in with my thumb over it and blasted the crap out it while mixing it with my other hand. Water was only slightly milky for all of a day and have never had any problems with it clouding my water since.

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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Reviving old thread, why start again.

Trying Safe T Sorb, $6 - 40lb tractor supply.
Very dirty in the bag, filled a 5 gallon bucket about 1/3rd.
Rinsed this material about 6 times and hand stirred before dumping.
Filled with water to fill half the bucket 4 days ago.

Tap water 78=TDS, pH=7.4
Just tested bucket 348=TDS, pH=5.2, GH=20, KH=0
I can adjust KH as needed.

How long does it take to saturate the KH in this stuff???

Thinking of placing all of it in a trough and treat it before using.

Anyone pre-charge this stuff with ferts???

Water in the bucket clears in a few minutes if I stir.
Doesn't seem this bag will be a cloudy water issue.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

TDS reached 800ppm.

Cleaned the entire bag and placed in a tank now.

Charging recipe at this time.
40lb of Safe t Sorb, 15 gallons of water and 2.5lb of baking soda.
This prevented the extreme pH drop which went to 4.6 in the sample bucket.
TDS hovered around 350 and pH no lower than 7.6
Day 3 pre-charged these 15 gallons with a 500ml macro dosing bottle worth of PPS Pro.
Day 4 pre-charged with 100ml micro dosing bottle of PPS Pro.
After all dosing TDS around 450 and pH 7.8
Day 5 and 6 will just be stirring and measuring.

This water is a true brown mess at this point.
I know I can get it clear but allowing as much absorption as possible.

As this saga continues I am hoping for a clearly defined recipe.
Seeing as I am alone here, veni vidi vici and I will.
More to come.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

3 days later!
TDS @ a whopping 5180 :surprise:
pH is a stable 8.5 and not budging.
Had to add a resin reactor with floss to clean it up a bit.
I did not add the entire 100ml micro mix only 25%.
Fearing any toxicity issues.
Possibly this evening I will remove and rinse safe-t-sorb.
Return it to the tank and add 15 gallons to begin further testing.
Assuming that stable pH for 3 days means substrate is somewhat saturated.
No point in testing GH & KH yet not enough drops in a bottle.

Hoping that someone is also interested?


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

7 more days have gone by!

The addition of baking soda has worked well.
Quickly absorbed and stable. KH @ 3 and holding.
GH is @ 1.5 to 2 and being raised with MgSO4, pending testing.
My goal is 4GH & 3KH.

Potassium is a mystery, I have no way to measure. :frown2:

KNO3 is also absorbed and dosing more to bring to 10ppm.
Not absorbed as the quick as the rate of baking soda.
SafeTSorb seems to have an appetite for KNO3.

PO4 is the tough one. Seemed to be absorbed all at once.
As soon as a water change occurred it went through the roof.
Released back into the water column quickly, maybe 20ppm easy.

CSM+B & Fe? Who knows. I dosed an 1/8th of a 250ml bottle for SAG.
It created a tannin type look to the water, let it soak for these last 7 days.

More to come.

My application is strange maybe.
Very cloudy water, broke out the diatom filter.
I can clear it up quick but unsure of disturbing the substrate.
Science experiment continues.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

22 days in to this.

If I did it over.

Recipe:
2 lb of baking soda for every 40lbs of SafeTSorb.
500ml PPS Pro macro mix per 40lbs, cut PO4 to 1 gram.
1/8th of a 250ml PPS Pro micro mix with iron per 40lbs.
Add to aquarium with 2" water above substrate.
Soak and stir, use a power head for movement.
18 day soak time, agitate some daily.
Syphon all water out.
Rinse in tank no more agitation, you will just break up SafeTSorb over time.
Syphon from one end, then add water in the other end.
Each rinse is a 5 gallon bucket, I used a small power head to fill.
Careful filling as to not agitate the substrate.
About 12 - 5 gallons rinses required, base this on water testing.


Chemicals:

Phosphates are very mobile in this substrate.
That is why I would cut the PO4 in the pre-charge.

NO3 was fully absorbed, it will take more from water column.

K, I have no way to test, I will assume absorbed.

Baking soda saturates this substrate quick and stops the pH drops.

MgSO4 was almost fully absorbed, it will take more from water column.

Using the diatom filter was a waste of time.
I just wanted to see through the water.
After all this rinsing it is quite clear.

Next stage will be equalizing the whole thing.
Adding 20 gallons of water and will bring all fert levels to a norm.
Once stable I will do the final fill to 75 gallons.
I'll post water tests next.

pH = 7.9 steady
TDS = 120 very slow rise now 4-5ppm per day
KH = 3dH
GH = .5dH MgSO4 to be added to water column. Tap being added is 3dH.
Ca = 50ppm
NH3 = <.25ppm (Prime related? Should be zero.) SafeTSorb appears to release 0 ammonia.
NO2 = 0ppm Not sure why I tested this.
NO3 = 0ppm Dosing is fully consumed. KNO3 to be added also.
PO4 = 5ppm and still leaching from substrate albeit much slower.
Mg = -1.21 we can call that zero, dosing is fully consumed.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

I now have some very stable water.
We won't talk about tannin from the driftwood.

Totals to reach stability.

40 pounds SafeTSorb
2 pounds Baking Soda(NaHCO3)
34g KNO3
1g KH2PO4
29g K2SO4
100g MgSO4
30ml of PPS Pro micro solution
500mg of 10% iron

pH = 7.7
TDS = 690ppm in 15 gallons H2O, this will be fully exchanged with tap.
GH = 4dH
KH = 3dH
NO3 = 20ppm
PO4 = 2-5ppm
Ca = 50ppm

Tap water is
pH = 7.7 - 7.8
TDS = 80 - 90ppm
GH = 3 - 4 dH
KH = 2 - 3 dH

Any thoughts from SafeTSorb users???


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## thedood (May 30, 2015)

@Maryland Guppy How has this been working for you? I am thinking of using safe-t-sorb in a new tank. I would put a sprinkle of osmocote, safe-t-sorb layer, dirt layer, then cap with bdbs. The whole kh drop thing makes me hesitant as I am moving shrimp from one tank to this new one.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Totals to reach stability.
> 
> 40 pounds SafeTSorb
> 2 pounds Baking Soda(NaHCO3)
> ...


*New Recipe* needed to add more MgSo4 GH still dropping.
40 pounds SafeTSorb
2 pounds Baking Soda(NaHCO3)
34g KNO3
1g KH2PO4
29g K2SO4
135g MgSO4
30ml of PPS Pro micro solution
500mg of 10% iron

7.8 pH & TDS is 135
GH = 2
KH = 3
PO4 = 2ppm
NO3 = 0

If I had an option I would put it in all my tanks.
I really like the look of this stuff.
IMO opinion pre-charging would be my only choice though.
Once initially charged it holds it's own.

I would use it by itself. Looks like Seachem's Flourite product.
Believe all the dirt and black sand would just work it's way to the bottom.
Dirt and sand will have a higher density than the SafeTSorb.

I only have some very young crypts in this soil now.
Driftwood tannin is my issue.
I am going to pull and boil the shiitake out of the driftwood this week.
I am tired of waiting.

Cannot speak to it growing plants well at this time.
I will update when I know more about growth.
It's got to be better than the inert quartz gravel I am using in 4 other tanks though.
Purpose of this thread was developing a recipe for stable SafeTSorb.
Hope this helps.

Thanks for the response!
It's been a very lonely thread for me.
Maybe since I hi-jacked an already started thread.


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## thedood (May 30, 2015)

Thanks for the reply. My understanding is it produces results. I think I am going to start a new thread, hope you stop by. I look forward to reading your plant growth results.


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## JJ09 (Sep 11, 2014)

I wish I had found this thread when I first put safe-t-sorb in my tank. I couldn't find anyone's report of how much ferts they had added so I guessed, and no way did I put enough. If I do it again I'll try following your guideline.

Although I did sift dust and fine particles out, reducing the 40lb bag to probably half- so 20lb or less- would you assume if I did that again, I should use half the amount ferts you report for stability? And would you still recommend soaking it for 18-plus days?? or not so long- I'm assuming it was a long time period because you were testing and adjusting the dose to be absorbed...

I'd like to see a pic of how your plants are doing in it.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

JJ09 said:


> I wish I had found this thread when I first put safe-t-sorb in my tank. I couldn't find anyone's report of how much ferts they had added so I guessed, and no way did I put enough. If I do it again I'll try following your guideline.
> 
> Although I did sift dust and fine particles out, reducing the 40lb bag to probably half- so 20lb or less- would you assume if I did that again, I should use half the amount ferts you report for stability? And would you still recommend soaking it for 18-plus days?? or not so long- I'm assuming it was a long time period because you were testing and adjusting the dose to be absorbed...
> 
> I'd like to see a pic of how your plants are doing in it.


I still may alter this recipe.
I don't believe the KNO3 should be included, it was a waste of ferts.

Reduced to 20 pounds doesn't sound good.
Maybe too much rinsing and churning breaking it down more.
I lost maybe 1lb, tank looked like he[[, diatom filter for 2 days cleared it up.
In time it becomes heavier and when disturbing while planting no dust cloud anymore.

If I had to do this over again, which will be soon!
I would split into 2-5 gallon buckets and soak for 2 weeks.
Reckon I possess more patience than most.

In regards to plants.
I have 14 pieces of melt downed crypts in for 4 days.
7 pieces of severely damaged water sprite.
Crypts have new sprouts and same with sprite.
I will take pics of them this evening and again in 2 weeks.
We shall see how they fare.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

JJ09 said:


> I'd like to see a pic of how your plants are doing in it.


Plants are doing well. Been chucking extras of everything in there.









I need to go arms deep and re-arrange though.


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## pr4mr22 (Jan 29, 2017)

Thank you for documenting all of this. I'm going to e setting up a medium planted 180 gallon Rift lake Tank in the next year or so. I was planning to use STS and this information will be very helpful for making sure I get the water parameters stable before adding any fish. Cheers!!


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## Fagan316 (Oct 20, 2017)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Maryland Guppy said:
> 
> 
> > Totals to reach stability.
> ...


 dude this is what I've been searching for for months quick question do I add all the things you suggested all at once or how should I add them to the sorb


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

I put all SafeTSorb in the tank.
Mixed all this up in enough water to dissolve and poured it in.
Leave an inch or two of water above for testing etc...
Turned the SafeTSorb periodically, it could be done in buckets.
Actually I've done this both ways.

Ironically I have moved on to capped soil and have converted all tanks to CO2.
I like the SafeTSorb more for a non CO2 setup personally.

My recipe ain't perfect but it was better than all the undocumented info I found.


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## Fagan316 (Oct 20, 2017)

Maryland Guppy said:


> I put all SafeTSorb in the tank.
> Mixed all this up in enough water to dissolve and poured it in.
> Leave an inch or two of water above for testing etc...
> Turned the SafeTSorb periodically, it could be done in buckets.
> ...


 cool since I have to cycle the tank could I fill tank up and still do what you did?


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

I am using safe-t-sorb over dirt in 80 gal tank with daily addition of carbon supplement(Metricide), and twice weekly dry fertilizer's added to the water after weekly water change.
My water from the tap is fairly hard, so was not too worried about safe-t-sorb stripping hardness which only seemed to happen for first month or two, and as mentioned,I simply add hardness back with weekly water change with fairly hard tap water.
In hindsight,,I would have sifted more of the safe-t-sorb through hardware cloth which would result in nearly half loss of product but less clouding, which wasn't all that bad after rinsing it a couple times,and cleaning filter material a couple times a month as opposed to normal once a month for first few month's.
I also added a sprinkling of osmocote on the bottom glass before covering it with dirt,and capping it all with the safe-t-sorb.
Rather than soak the stuff in mineral's or fertilizer,I simply add the fertz to the water after each weekly water change.
I like the natural the natural appearance of the product,and it's CEC capability, and plant's seem to be doing well after a year and a half but again,,i add fertz to the water column weekly.


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## pr4mr22 (Jan 29, 2017)

Just FYI, I followed the recipe and it's worked quite nicely for me in my 12 long. I haven't had the chance to get a 180 yet but I've been running the 12 gallon for about a year and all the plants are doing well, along with the colony of multies. It was cloudy for a couple of days, but haven't had any cloudiness since the first few days and using the recipe and pre-charging, I've been able to keep stable KH pretty much from day 1. With weekly water changes, and dosing ferts once a week it works great!


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## JJ09 (Sep 11, 2014)

I recently got myself a new bag of safe-t-sorb and followed your final receipe, and it worked great for me. I soaked it all first stirring a bit every day and then after some rinsing tested the water in the bucket and pH was same as my tank- so looks like the amount of baking soda stabilized it off bat. Happy.


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## [email protected] (Feb 26, 2020)

*Thank you*

Not sure if you still monitor this thread but I wanted to thank you for the research you did regarding STS. I'm setting up a 90 gal tank and your testing saved me a alot of failure. I've just placed 100 lbs dry of STS charged per your recipe and I expect it to reduce the amount of time I spend getting to stable greatly. This is my first planted tank and the the first tank in 25 years. I used to breed angels and discus and bare tanks hardly require the detailed chemistry you've worked out.

Thank you,

Al


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