# adding soil to established tank



## Hoppy

This isn't a good idea. If you want to try something similar, use an ice cube tray to freeze wet soil into cubes. Then poke them down into the substrate, under the surface. Don't use "potting soil", it contains mostly partially composted plant matter, which will be a problem in the aquarium. Use topsoil, one that doesn't contain any fertilizers or anything that isn't natural. Or just dig your own topsoil, screen out the bits of rock and wood and bones, etc.


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## mistergreen

A quick way to prepare top soil is to fill it with water in a container. All of the wood chips, twigs, barks will float to the top.. Skim that off and then freeze.


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## Cuchulainn

If you want to try something similar, use an ice cube tray to freeze wet soil into cubes. Then poke them down into the substrate, under the surface. Quote~
That's a brilliant idea, thanks Hoppy!


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## F22

thats an amazing idea dude. i should try that one of these days.


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## OoglyBoogly

Hoppy said:


> This isn't a good idea. If you want to try something similar, use an ice cube tray to freeze wet soil into cubes. Then poke them down into the substrate, under the surface. Don't use "potting soil", it contains mostly partially composted plant matter, which will be a problem in the aquarium. Use topsoil, one that doesn't contain any fertilizers or anything that isn't natural. Or just dig your own topsoil, screen out the bits of rock and wood and bones, etc.


Oh... My... Goodness... monty67 you are a genius... I've been wondering about a way to add MTS here and there to my substrate in an already stocked tank... What a friggin fantastic idea...


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## monty67

:biggrin:I'd like to take credit but i can't. I read about someone doing it and i just wasn't sure what type of soil to use. Top soil it is. But thanks


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## Hoppy

Tom Barr has been advocating doing the frozen topsoil thing for several years. I haven't tried it, but I see no reason for it not working well. Of course if you add too many at once the water will get pretty cold. :biggrin:


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## Greg Stephens

Another thought is using larger diameter clear tubes say 2" to 2.5".
I recently used this method to add two 15 lb bags of Florites black sand to my 90 gal.
It worked like a charm, and I didn't even have to rinse the strate first.

Basically you just set the tube up vertically so it contacts the strate and stick's up above the tanks water level.
I made funnles out of printer paper and a little scotch tape to make dumping the sand into the tube easier.

Effectivly the tubs keeps all/90%+ the dust contained and all you have to do is suction out the water in the tube when your done in that location.
I even used smaller tubes in the 1/2" to 1" range to add the sand in the heavily planted areas of the tank.

Anyway, it only took about 2 hours for the little bit of cloudy water to settle down.
And was way faster than rinsing, catching fish, pulling plants, and so on.


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## OverStocked

The point of doing the icecubes is that the soil goes UNDER the substrate in your tank already.


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## SgtPeppersLHC

but if it were above it would it settle eventually? Just take a hella long time no? I have a 5 gal so adding ice to it may take a damn long time since I couldnt add a lot at once. But adding the soil on top and letting it settle like GS said would take longer probably. I think I'll go with the ice, sounds like its gonna take a while but I dont have too much to fill up luckily.
How many cubes/plant would you say?


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## Diana

I would limit it to about 1 ice cube per plant or about 6" apart each time (to avoid over-chilling), but might end up with 3-5 cubes around each plant over perhaps a week or two. Or the end result might be a solid layer of soil over the whole tank, but spread out over a couple of weeks to give the tank a chance to stabilize with the new material, and you can monitor each addition for a few days to make sure there are no unwanted spikes of anything. 

How about adding a few Osmocote pellets to each soil-cicle? As long as it ends up at the bottom of the tank, touching the bottom glass, I think this would help enrich the substrate.


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## Greg Stephens

over_stocked said:


> The point of doing the icecubes is that the soil goes UNDER the substrate in your tank already.


 
I got that but you could simply dig a hole syphon out some of the old soil,
and use a tube to replace with the new soil.
The point was less work, less mess, and a clear tank with new soil.


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## chad320

Here is a good read on the subject...http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/s...g-nutrients-existing-sediment-simple-way.html


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## OverStocked

Greg Stephens said:


> I got that but you could simply dig a hole syphon out some of the old soil,
> and use a tube to replace with the new soil.
> The point was less work, less mess, and a clear tank with new soil.


I get your idea, but don't think it will work with soil like it did with sand/gravel. Soil lighter and has a tendency to work its way UP in the substrate to start. If you are going to attempt this method, you'd be further ahead to just pull out the old substrate and start over... imo.


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## OverStocked

SgtPeppersLHC said:


> but if it were above it would it settle eventually? Just take a hella long time no? I have a 5 gal so adding ice to it may take a damn long time since I couldnt add a lot at once. But adding the soil on top and letting it settle like GS said would take longer probably. I think I'll go with the ice, sounds like its gonna take a while but I dont have too much to fill up luckily.
> How many cubes/plant would you say?


Soil settles to the top, not the bottom.


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## PlantedVirgin

Yes I know this is an old thread but still like to activate a thread if its knowledge based. Can I use topsoil then pea gravel over it in a new tank or will the topsoil still float to the top once I fill the tank? Or am I just better off using Eco-Complete or Flourite for a planted 30 gal tank? I have had all Eco-Complete in my big tanks when I had pressurized CO2 but in this small tank I just want DIY CO2 becuase I cant find a small CO2 system..


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## Sake

In the substrate forum you can look up MTS or mineralized top soil, also look up MGOPM or miracle gro organic potting mix. Both are ways of dirting a tank. 

Yes you can use pea gravel for a cap.


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## Kareen

This place sells osmocote pills for your planted tank Bamaplant.com


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## GeraldStringham

I tried this once on one of my tanks. I can tell you right now this does not work as advertised. The second you stick the ice cube in 78 degree water in my situation anyway it melts far to fast. I didn't even have time to stick it in the substrate before it completely fell apart. If you are going to do something like this. I would suggest very little soil and mostly water as that is the only way I see this working.


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## norbot

I tried diy clay balls, I used jobe's organic tabs crushed up, mts and greensand. Roll it up in real pottery clay, I baked it at 200f for an hour or so.

Pretty easy to use because the clay stays pretty hard after baked, although it does still dissolve if you take too long. I ended up with hundreds for around $5 worth of materials


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## GeraldStringham

I like that idea a lot better then the whole freezing technique norbot. Something I will have to try in the future.


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## rhody9

Resurrecting this thread to say the ice cube method works! I have an established 29 gallon planted tank with inert gravel that I wanted to add some plant friendly substrate to. I froze two trays of lightly rinsed laterite and added roughly 30 cubes last night. The ice cubes did not float after pushed in the gravel, and there was no red cloud. My gravel was revealed to be full of mulm but nothing a quick wc and some prime couldn't help along. I watched my temperature and it remained steady at 75 deg and no issues with cubes melting too fast. Overall happy with the results, I have the rest of the box in the freezer and will add the rest over the weekend. Thanks plantedtank.net for this great idea!


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## PlantedRich

I find that my fish and various work on moving things will always mix any two items. So with this in mind I never work too hard to keep them separate. When I want to add soil I go as simple as I can. For me, I fill a small bathroom cup, cover the top with stiff cardstock and invert it in a pre-dug hole. I pull the cardstock and remove the cup. There will be some small amount of muddy water but most of the dirt is left in the hole where I then bury it or plant. Eventually the dirt and other substrate will all be mixed. It is just a gradual change in the proportions.


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## Catf1sh

GeraldStringham: You could add the cubes during a 50% water change, that way you could get the cubes in quicker and it would reduce the time they're in contact with the water.

In any case this thread is why I love forums, they're such a valuable resource for learning.


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## Hilde

rhody9 said:


> Resurrecting this thread to say the ice cube method works! I have an established 29 gallon planted tank with inert gravel that I wanted to add some plant friendly substrate to. I froze two trays of lightly rinsed laterite and added roughly 30 cubes last night. a!


Got a thread on it? I would like to see how it is after a few weeks. For I have my 29G tank half filled with plants in pots. Have to fill it using a bucket. Thus dread having to empty it to add substrate.


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## Hilde

Hoppy said:


> Don't use "potting soil", it contains mostly partially composted plant matter, which will be a problem in the aquarium.


Many have used Miracal Grow Organic Potting Soil with great success.


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## wootlaws

I can't picture how you could shove an ice cube of dirt without opening the capping gravel and having the dirt leach out ?


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## Catf1sh

Quick question:

Would loam based compost be safe to use for ice cubes?? I've read on an Irish forum that "John Innes no.3 is good for aquariums" was gonna put them in after a wc today so please let me know!!


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## Hilde

The ice cube method I read has not worked for some. Thus I decided the safe way to add soil to an established tank is to put dirt capped with sand in plastic containers and then put the containers in the tank.


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## Catf1sh

Container idea sounds interesting... What's the WORST that could happen with the ice cubes? Some dirt in the water column that a wc could fix?


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## lauraleellbp

Loam is peat, right?

If so, there are definitely some nutrients in peat that are very beneificial for plants, but you might also have some tannins to deal with, staining the water.


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## Catf1sh

Loam is a sandy and silty soil, with some clay. At about "40-40-20% concentration" according to wikipedia!
The page says all sorts of good things about the stuff: 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loam.

So there shouldn't be any tannins to deal with anyway, maybe at worst it'll just muck up the water? I'm gonna drop a cube into a pint of aquarium water and see how fast it dissolves = how fast my hands will have to be when placing them lol.


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## lauraleellbp

Let us know how it goes!

Though... not all clays are the same. It's RED clay that people try and use for plants, as it's high in iron.

I'm not sure that most of the benefits I'm reading on that link regarding loam in open-air horticulture will translate into a planted aquarium setting?

Not trying to discourage you... definitely worth an experiment. lol


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## Catf1sh

It's not really an experiment with the soil itself only the ice cubes, as it's a tried and tested product..


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## bmeate

I read that you could wrap a packet of soil in wax paper and scotch tape, and then just tear the packet once it is under the gravel. does wax paper quickly degrade in an aquarium? maybe i could use heavy paper or cardboard?


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## Bananableps

bmeate said:


> I read that you could wrap a packet of soil in wax paper and scotch tape, and then just tear the packet once it is under the gravel. does wax paper quickly degrade in an aquarium? maybe i could use heavy paper or cardboard?


This sounds like a mess. Why not just do the ice cube method described in this (ancient) thread you've bumped?




Hoppy said:


> Or just dig your own topsoil, screen out the bits of rock and wood and bones, etc.


Curious why you have bones in your back yard.


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## BettaBettas

Bananableps its just an old dead body don't worry about it lol...
This is the most intriguing thread I have read in a long while! I may try this ice cube thing tomorrow and ill tell you all how it goes, very, very interesting! some say apparently that it works, and some say it doesn't. so ill be the judge of this I guess! I own 30 acres of pure wild untouched land so if I go back there and get some topsoil will that be ok to freeze? (without the grass and little plant and sticks an stuff in it) 
My own little addition to this method though is with the ice cube trays, put only half of the dirt and water mix you would normally add to the tray. for ex: fill the ice cube tray only half way up with dirt/water. 
Reason being is so the ice cube is thinner and *Possibly* easier to slide or slip into the substrate of your or my tank. <- that's the method im going to use tomorrow when doing this, I will take pics too just for the heck of it!  again, an amazingly creative thread, go monty!


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## christinamac910

I'm considering trying this method but I keep my aquarium at 78 degrees Fahrenheit. I'm worried it would not give me much time to get the ice cube under my sand. 

I have an idea. Do you think it would work?

Maybe you have heard of DIY fish food jello or gel food. It's basically unflavored gelatin cooked with whatever you want to hold in suspension in the jello. I make it for my fish.

What about making unflavored gelatin with dirt suspended in it? The gelatin would eventually breakdown under the substrate right (by anaerobic bacteria)? Gelatin is basically protein matter I think. Would it just foul the soil near the roots and create a problem?


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## DaveKS

christinamac910 said:


> I'm considering trying this method but I keep my aquarium at 78 degrees Fahrenheit. I'm worried it would not give me much time to get the ice cube under my sand.
> 
> I have an idea. Do you think it would work?
> 
> Maybe you have heard of DIY fish food jello or gel food. It's basically unflavored gelatin cooked with whatever you want to hold in suspension in the jello. I make it for my fish.
> 
> What about making unflavored gelatin with dirt suspended in it? The gelatin would eventually breakdown under the substrate right (by anaerobic bacteria)? Gelatin is basically protein matter I think. Would it just foul the soil near the roots and create a problem?


Just buy some 00 gel caps.


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## Hilde

DaveKS said:


> Just buy some 00 gel caps.


I second that. You can buy them at Health food store like Vitamin Shoppe cheap.


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## Elizabeth Barlett

All difficult . Since cappuccino is more difficult than just making coffee find cappuccino machine  . And not all coffee machines can do it. But this one just might


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## varanidguy

It would be a bit of work, but I've done it without even causing a mini cycle.

I removed all hardscape, netted out all inhabitants (except MTS), stored them in a 50 gallon tote with my canister filter hooked up to it. Pulled all the plants and floated them in the container with the fish, drained the tank as much as I could, scooped out my BDBS, added my soil (in my case it was Controsoil, but it could be whatever soil of your choosing, even Miracle-Gro). I then capped it with my already seeded and cycled substrate I just scooped out, losing as little bacteria as possible. Re-planted the tank, added the hard scape, filled with temperature matched, dechlorinated water, hooked my filter back up, and added all of my fish back to the tank.

Is it labor intensive? Sure. Was it worth it? Absolutely!


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