# Joey's Mr. Aqua 17.4 Dutch



## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

That looks to have a lot of possibility. The only thing I can see right now is your plant list looks pretty extensive. With that many species you're not going to be able to get the large groups most Dutch tanks are known for. It looks like a fantastic list for starting a new tank then choosing which species you want most though. Some of those plants get really big too; possibly too big for a 60P. Just something to think about, it never hurts to try though! Looking forward to seeing the pics.


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

I see you're located in PA, too! I know, I know. Haha. I go overboard. I'm going to narrow it down and probably eliminate the Syngonanthus sp. Belem, AR mini, Rotala Mini Butterfly, and Ludwigia sp. Tornado because of availability. The plants I can't use will go to my other tank. I might end up throwing the Ludwigia Arcuata just because of the leaf similarity of that and others.


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Ill actually be right near you today! I'm going to knoebels.


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

For those that are following, I doubt many. Haha. I have a fairly large update. I got a lot of things in the mail. It's like Christmas time, what can I say? I hope to have this flooded and planted in the next two weeks. I decided to get aquasoil, too. I wanted to try it really bad. 

Things I got:
Pump Bottles for Dosing ferts 
Aquatic Life T5HO Dual Fixture
Mr. Aqua 17.4 Gallon Rimless
Eheim 2215 Classic
Texas Select Driftwood
Manten Stone
Aquasoil Amazonia 
Do! Aqua Diffuser 

Revised Plant List:

Rotala Macrandra 
Rotala Wallichi
HC
Pogostemon Helferi
Ludwigia inclinata var. Pantal
Ludwigia sp. Red
Ludwigia sp. Curly/Tornado
Tonina sp. Lotus Blossom 
Syngonanthus sp. Belem (maybe)

Revised Stock List:

1 German Blue Ram
10 Chili Rasboras
2 Otos
Nerites

Now for some pics:


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Oops. This too.


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## Couesfanatic (Sep 28, 2009)

looks nice, looking forward to some plants and a scape.


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Thanks. Ordering plants in a week so it shouldn't be too long.


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## Jack Gilvey (Jun 16, 2008)

Very cool, should be great. I really like the pro-looking fert bottles.


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

@Jack Thanks alot. I like to "look" professional. Haha. I'm super excited. 

Update:
I got the Aquasoil in, and since it's a Dutch scape, the hard scape won't play a role, really. 
I ordered some plants from Bartohog and they should be here Wednesday. I have to admit, this guy is awesome and really makes you feel like you're getting a deal. 

I ordered:
Rotala sp. Colorata
Rotala sp. Green
Rotala Macrandra
Ludwigia sp. Red
Ludwigia inclinata var. Panatal
Ludwigia sp. Curly/Tornado
Ammania sp. Bonsai
Hudrocotyle sp. Japan 

I'm also going to run out to Petsmart for some Downoi unless someone has some for super cheap because you get about 50 crowns for 8$. 

Ill update on Wednesday when my plants come.


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## Ebi (Jun 29, 2011)

whoa!! 

My plants will feel honored to be in this setup of yours!


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Update Time! 

Ok so it has been three weeks since it has been filled. Things are coming along well. No real algae yet. I added three harlequin Rasboras and a peacock Gudgeon to my stock of 3 neons and a peppered Cory. My Ludwigia sp. Red leaves keep dropping. I saw someone else had this problem and I don't know what's causing it. My Macrandra leaves are curling a little. Anyone that can help me with this?? Don't know about that yet. I can't add anymore co2 to the tank without having my Rasboras gasp. The neons don't gasp though. Everything is coming along ok. 

@Ebi-
I still want some Downoi but for some reason we are still getting some high temps. Don't want to risk it. Ill shoot you a pm when it cools more. 

Now for pics!






























Please excuse the rock. It's just to hold down the DW. I would have thought it would have sunk by now. Guess not. 


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## sevenportsOFFICE (Aug 5, 2013)

Looking good!


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Thanks! I'm going to start dry dosing EI because I'm noticing things that are either co2 or nutrient deficiencies. I can't turn up my co2 any more so well see.


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Shots of some of the inhabitants. I need a camera other than my iPhone. Anyone have suggestions? Under 400$. This weekend I'm going to add to the stock. Final stocking plans are:
5 Harlequin Raboras
5 Neon Tetras
1 Oto
1 Peacock Gudgeon
1 German Blue Ram
5 more schooling fish. I need some suggestions! 

















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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

I added a German Blue Ram this past weekend. I'm acclimating him to the Co2 now. Ordering some wood from Tom Barr tonight to have ore of a hard scape. I need to get some Downoi too from Ebi

















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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

Wow, I've really missed a lot. I don't know how this got lost in the mix of all the other threads.  Subscribing now. I love the clean and professional look! roud: BTW, I'm 10 min from Knoebel's. Give me a couple months and then come up. I'm sure I'll have a lot of stuff for you.


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## jmf3460 (Aug 21, 2013)

Beautiful tank. Do you not want to do a pair of GBR's?


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## jfynyson (Apr 15, 2013)

jmf3460 said:


> Beautiful tank. Do you not want to do a pair of GBR's?


Wow, another Greensboro folk ! There's more of us around than I thought !


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Phil Edwards said:


> Wow, I've really missed a lot. I don't know how this got lost in the mix of all the other threads.  Subscribing now. I love the clean and professional look! roud: BTW, I'm 10 min from Knoebel's. Give me a couple months and then come up. I'm sure I'll have a lot of stuff for you.


Awesome. I've been following your build. Can't wait to see it with some plants. Let me know when I can come up for a visit. 


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

jmf3460 said:


> Beautiful tank. Do you not want to do a pair of GBR's?


Thanks. Nope, I think I just want to keep it to one. 


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

I'm also trying to get co2 good while I'm adding fish still. The Macrandra, Ludwigia sp. red, and Ludwigia inclinata var. Panatal were doing great and I fixed the curling but I had to turn down my co2 or ill gas my fish. Right now I'm supplementing with 10mls of Glutaraldehyde as an extra source of carbon. Hopefully the plants are ok and stop curling with the addition of glut. 


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Everything is growing well. I purchased what was labeled as rotala wallichi tissue culture at Petco, but having had it transition to submerged, it is definitely Rotala Nanjenshan. A little bummed, but oh well.


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## Brian_Cali77 (Mar 19, 2010)

Your tank is looking good.. it's well on its way to having colorful contrasting species of plants to get that mini "Dutch" look. Keep the updates coming, Joey!


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Wow, got to follow this one, same size tank, same goal. Actually, we have almost the same equipment as well. I really want to see how you do yours. Looking forward to this.


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## rustbucket (Oct 15, 2011)

Love the fish


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Brian_Cali77 said:


> Your tank is looking good.. it's well on its way to having colorful contrasting species of plants to get that mini "Dutch" look. Keep the updates coming, Joey!


Thanks, Brian. I don't know if I said this on AA, but I decided to skip the wood and I've been reading on how to actually scape Dutch style. 


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

talontsiawd said:


> Wow, got to follow this one, same size tank, same goal. Actually, we have almost the same equipment as well. I really want to see how you do yours. Looking forward to this.


Yeah I've been following yours as well. One thing I would advise- Depending on where your pipes are placed (mine are on the left side in the middle) you can get a bit of a dead spot in the back left corner. I noticed my fish always went there when my co2 was too high. 


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

rustbucket said:


> Love the fish


Thanks 


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

keats said:


> Yeah I've been following yours as well. One thing I would advise- Depending on where your pipes are placed (mine are on the left side in the middle) you can get a bit of a dead spot in the back left corner. I noticed my fish always went there when my co2 was too high.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2


I have checked the flow on mine by dosing ferts right into the pipe. Because I have the poppy glass, flow seems way lower than it is. I have had this setup on a 20 long which is longer with no issues but I will keep that in mind. I am going to try my other lily and see how much gets pushed around plant wise for fun. I feel like my poppy glass, along with the added height is better than my other outflow for distribution, just slows things down. However, I won't know until I get further so I will keep that in mind (thanks!).


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

talontsiawd said:


> I have checked the flow on mine by dosing ferts right into the pipe. Because I have the poppy glass, flow seems way lower than it is. I have had this setup on a 20 long which is longer with no issues but I will keep that in mind. I am going to try my other lily and see how much gets pushed around plant wise for fun. I feel like my poppy glass, along with the added height is better than my other outflow for distribution, just slows things down. However, I won't know until I get further so I will keep that in mind (thanks!).


Gotcha. By the way, do you like the poppy glass? i thought about trying it but i really like the flow because it allows more oxygen so i can keep my co2 on the higher side.


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

I did a large trim last night and moved a few things around. I'm trying to form more unique grouping and streets. It looks to be coming together. It will look a lot better














once the Rotala sp. nanjenshan, the Macrandra, Downoi, HC, and Pantal Fill in some more. 


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## Brian_Cali77 (Mar 19, 2010)

Looks like progress, Joey! So far so good... btw, what's the green plant between the ludwigia sp. Red and macrandra? Kinda looks like p. Erectus.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

keats said:


> Gotcha. By the way, do you like the poppy glass? i thought about trying it but i really like the flow because it allows more oxygen so i can keep my co2 on the higher side.


I do like it but I also have it as low as it can go. I would imagine my other pipe would have quite a bit more surface agitation and more CO2 at the same height. I actually was going to put my old one on for fun, see if I still feel the same about.

I like it because it significantly reduces the velocity of water coming out of the pipe. Up high, it my provide more surface agitation but I think it would just be more even. I wouldn't count on a much higher level of O2 in the tank.


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

I bought it as tissue culture Rotala Wallichi, but so far it looks just like nanjenshan. Looks like they are mislabeled at Petco. If I don't like the way it fills in, I'll probably opt for Wallichi from pea body's paradise. Right now it offers as a good contrast between the Macrandra and Ludwigia sp. red. I have 6 stems or so of Ammania but they're little. They are in front f the Ludwigia and the Rotala sp green. I'm going to form a small grouping of them. 

Btw, I can't post anymore pics on AA until I subscribe 


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

talontsiawd said:


> I do like it but I also have it as low as it can go. I would imagine my other pipe would have quite a bit more surface agitation and more CO2 at the same height. I actually was going to put my old one on for fun, see if I still feel the same about.
> 
> I like it because it significantly reduces the velocity of water coming out of the pipe. Up high, it my provide more surface agitation but I think it would just be more even. I wouldn't count on a much higher level of O2 in the tank.



Yeah, I need to run the normal pipes then. I need the extra oxygen so I can run my co2 higher. 


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

keats said:


> Yeah, I need to run the normal pipes then. I need the extra oxygen so I can run my co2 higher.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2


Soon I will swap out the pipes as I want to see the difference. I will make sure to take a video of each so others can see. My other pipe is a DIY acrylic lily I bought at a shop in So Cal I like ($25 per the set). So my other pipe is not necesarily the best comparison but I was planning on doing this soon.


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## UDGags (Sep 13, 2009)

Your tank is filling in nicely.


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

talontsiawd said:


> Soon I will swap out the pipes as I want to see the difference. I will make sure to take a video of each so others can see. My other pipe is a DIY acrylic lily I bought at a shop in So Cal I like ($25 per the set). So my other pipe is not necesarily the best comparison but I was planning on doing this soon.


I like the stainless steel pipes too. The ones that are shaped like the standard eheim outflow. 


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

UDGags said:


> Your tank is filling in nicely.


Thanks, man. 


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## Ach1Ll3sH33L (Mar 1, 2012)

looking good, plant health has definitely improved, couple more weeks and you will have really good tops to replant!


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Quick Question-
Today I noticed my Macrandra is bending to the right. I'm unsure what's causing it. Dosing EI, Aquasoil, Drop checker greenish yellow. Any one have ideas?










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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

If it isn't getting pushed around by the filter, I am guessing it is just getting a lot of light. Many stems will start "bending" when they get closer to the light, or are just in high light, kind of like a carpet plant.


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

talontsiawd said:


> If it isn't getting pushed around by the filter, I am guessing it is just getting a lot of light. Many stems will start "bending" when they get closer to the light, or are just in high light, kind of like a carpet plant.


Actually the current from the filter goes the opposite direction so I know it's not that. It must just be the light. My other Rotalas bend like crazy. 


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

keats said:


> Actually the current from the filter goes the opposite direction so I know it's not that. It must just be the light. My other Rotalas bend like crazy.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2


My guess it's just the light, like the green here in the middle of the picture:



keats said:


>


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

talontsiawd said:


> My guess it's just the light, like the green here in the middle of the picture:


Ok cool. Thanks man. I'm off to the LFS for either more Harlequins or Rummies. 


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Updated Pics: 
























Added 2 more harlequins to up my school to 5. Got the last Rummy they had but will be back on Tuesday for 4 more. Also got a Stiphodon Semoni. Awesome fish! I'm going to add a couple Otos soon. Waiting for plants to fill in more. 


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stare down


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## parrottbay (May 14, 2012)

Looking good brother, keep it up and I will use this thread to build my 60P I just bought  BTW SUBSCRIBED


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## tithra (Dec 1, 2012)

looks really great! 
I took your advice and got some panantal and ludwigia red for my tank  I'll try to get some pics tonight


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

parrottbay said:


> Looking good brother, keep it up and I will use this thread to build my 60P I just bought  BTW SUBSCRIBED


Thanks man! I'll shoot some Macrandra your way when I get enough worth sending.  


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

tithra said:


> looks really great!
> I took your advice and got some panantal and ludwigia red for my tank  I'll try to get some pics tonight


Thanks, Tithra. Be sure to post some pics tonight!


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## parrottbay (May 14, 2012)

Check out my thread, I don't think you be let down  BTW you are amazing!


keats said:


> Thanks man! I'll shoot some Macrandra your way when I get enough worth sending.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

parrottbay said:


> Check out my thread, I don't think you be let down  BTW you are amazing!


Don't worry about it man. I like to give back.  I'll check it out. 


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## parrottbay (May 14, 2012)

Thanks and thanks LOL I see the ram now BTW


keats said:


> Don't worry about it man. I like to give back.  I'll check it out.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2


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## parrottbay (May 14, 2012)

What is your BBS? Does it come on only with the lights? I wanna know more lol I would like to make critiques to mine  bc yours is pretty awesome and will be B.A. once it fills in


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

parrottbay said:


> What is your BBS? Does it come on only with the lights? I wanna know more lol I would like to make critiques to mine  bc yours is pretty awesome and will be B.A. once it fills in


BBS? I'm not following. Sorry. Haha. But thanks a lot man! 


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## parrottbay (May 14, 2012)

BPS, my apologies, I meant bubbles per second LOL


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

parrottbay said:


> BPS, my apologies, I meant bubbles per second LOL


Haha jeez man. I don't know if I can even count it. Probably around 5. It's going to fast. Lol. It comes on an hour and a half before lights on and a half hour before the lights go off it goes off. Dosing liquid carbon really helps a lot. 


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## parrottbay (May 14, 2012)

Thanks for the info!


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

parrottbay said:


> Thanks for the info!


Welcome!


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

I added an Oto tonight. He's doing well and making quick work of the GDA on the glass. That will eventually disappear once the tank matures, correct?


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

I had a harlequin jump tonight at lights out.  They always go crazy at lights out. I'm going to get the ADA glass top for this tank. It will be especially needed because I have some Boraras Brigattae coming in. Anyone know how this will effect my PAR values? Should I run the light without the splash guard since I have a cover, or use the splash guard? I just don't want to see a reduction in par or anything like that because I have the tank balanced and algae free.


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## parrottbay (May 14, 2012)

I am not sure about the last question or statement but I didn't know ottos would eat GSA, good to know thanks and good luck with the PAR!


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Updated FTS: 
Looking into ordering some Syngonanthus belem since there is a lot of bright green. Need something darker. Plants are starting to come in and I can finally form better groups.































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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Bedroom shot. Excuse the stuff on my bed. Asked a girl to homecoming last night and had a bunch of stuff in my room. 










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## Brian_Cali77 (Mar 19, 2010)

Nice updated pics, dude! Your groupings are forming nicely. That's mini AR on the left right? I'm about to get some and was advised to grow it in glut rather than co2 to help keep it short. Sounded a little odd to me. 

Wow... homecoming! How fun... makes me wish I was in high school again..enjoy it while it lasts. Hope the girl said yes! 

Nice board... u go boarding often? I have a Burton VII twin... I haven't gone in years, unfortunately.


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Brian_Cali77 said:


> Nice updated pics, dude! Your groupings are forming nicely. That's mini AR on the left right? I'm about to get some and was advised to grow it in glut rather than co2 to help keep it short. Sounded a little odd to me.
> 
> Wow... homecoming! How fun... makes me wish I was in high school again..enjoy it while it lasts. Hope the girl said yes!
> 
> Nice board... u go boarding often? I have a Burton VII twin... I haven't gone in years, unfortunately.


Thanks, Bro. No, actually it's AR 'Roseafolia' from Petsmart  It looks almost the same if I keep it trimmed shorter. It's a super slow grower, too, so that's nice. That doesn't make much sense to me? I'm dosing 9mls daily of glut just to keep the tank balanced. 

Yep, she said yes. Thank god. Haha. 

I probably go about 25-30 times a year. So a lot. Haha. I have up basketball for it. That's a Process Flying V. I like it because most of the time I jut ride the big air park and the double black diamonds, but sometimes I get the urge to ride park and the V allows some extra playfulness, while still having stability. I wish I lived out west. The NE is Ice 3/4 of the season. 


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## parrottbay (May 14, 2012)

Congrats with her, don't knock her up haha !! Your room is awesome, I wish mine was like that when I was your age. Simple just like the tank. It looks awesome!


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

parrottbay said:


> Congrats with her, don't knock her up haha !! Your room is awesome, I wish mine was like that when I was your age. Simple just like the tank. It looks awesome!


Lol that definitely will not be happen. Thanks. 


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## parrottbay (May 14, 2012)

I am glad you got it was a joke! but in all seriousness, have a good time! It only comes once in a LIFETIME. I wish I went to mine even though I know it is kind of silly.


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

parrottbay said:


> I am glad you got it was a joke! but in all seriousness, have a good time! It only comes once in a LIFETIME. I wish I went to mine even though I know it is kind of silly.


Haha of course I got the joke. Yeah! Everyone tells me that so I'm making he best of everything. 


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## bud29 (Sep 30, 2012)

Tank is looking very nice!


When's your homecoming? Mine was last week, very uneventful at best. Our football team got its butt whooped, LOL. The dance here is usually mobbed by a large crowd of people wanting to flex their wallets (i.e. buying $900 outfits and renting huge limos) so the consensus is, if you don't have a girlfriend forcing you to go, you stay clear  Kind of unfortunate, really


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## pseudomugil (Aug 12, 2013)

Nice snowboard, what type of terrain do you ride?

(the tank is looking awesome BTW)


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

bud29 said:


> Tank is looking very nice!
> 
> 
> When's your homecoming? Mine was last week, very uneventful at best. Our football team got its butt whooped, LOL. The dance here is usually mobbed by a large crowd of people wanting to flex their wallets (i.e. buying $900 outfits and renting huge limos) so the consensus is, if you don't have a girlfriend forcing you to go, you stay clear  Kind of unfortunate, really


Yeah that's really unfortunate. It's pretty laid back here. Everyone goes somewhere for pictures and then to the dance. It's a big crowd, too. 


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

pseudomugil said:


> Nice snowboard, what type of terrain do you ride?
> 
> (the tank is looking awesome BTW)


Thanks for both compliments. Haha. Well, here in the NE, you could say I ride on ice. Haha. But most of the time I ride park or just bomb slopes. I've gotten up to 54mph on some slopes. 


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## Brian_Cali77 (Mar 19, 2010)

Hey Joey... join the club!

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=451481


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## parrottbay (May 14, 2012)

Yeah Joey, your behind ha-ha!


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Ok, I'll get on it 


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## parrottbay (May 14, 2012)

AWESOME! I like the logo


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Agreed. I put in on my sig. I'm going to do a WC today because the tank seems oddly cloudy. Hmm 


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Good news though! I'm finally getting some nice full tops from the Panatal, nicer color and straight leaves from the Macrandra, and the tissue culture Wallichi is definately Wallichi. It's getting needle like leaves and pink tops. It's only half way up in the tank so I'm excited to see what they will look like when they get to the top. I trimmed up some this weekend and already have to trim again. I'm having a slight problem with the Ammania. It tends to rot at the stem when it grows tall. Lack of light maybe? Id love to hear Tom Barr's opinion on this. The Downoi from Petsmart is growing great, too. Ill post some pics tonight. 


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## parrottbay (May 14, 2012)

AWESOME great news, I live though you until I get mine up and running


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

I'll have a million Macrandra stems waiting for when you get that started. 


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Current FTS: Trimmed yesterday so that's why it doesn't look as good. Check out the difference in the Panatal. It keeps getting broader.

















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## parrottbay (May 14, 2012)

I am ready for them at any time haha. I was going to grow them out in my 10 gallon thread until I can afford a light, eheim, stand, and a nice co2 set-up.  I will post new pics of it soon also. I have some Bylxa Aubertii I can send if you want.


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## parrottbay (May 14, 2012)

Question: Do you pull up the rotala, trim, then replant the tops? I am asking because that is what I have read in magazines and was curious because of the ammonia spike I am sure it would cause if some one did this?


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

parrottbay said:


> Question: Do you pull up the rotala, trim, then replant the tops? I am asking because that is what I have read in magazines and was curious because of the ammonia spike I am sure it would cause if some one did this?


I do once and then I just top them. This forms a nice group and makes it grow in thick. I replant the Ludwigia and the others, though. 


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## edwing206 (May 8, 2012)

Man what a sweet tank! Inspiring for sure!


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## parrottbay (May 14, 2012)

I will start trying that then. I have been just pulling them...


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

edwing206 said:


> Man what a sweet tank! Inspiring for sure!


Thanks a lot. 


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Anyone have an opinion on the Aquaticlife RO Buddie or have an RO system they recommend? I need to soften up my water for the Macrandra. I want to get some Tonina and some Syngonanthus Belem. I plan on setting up a 5 gallon for some CRS soon so it will be needed. 


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## parrottbay (May 14, 2012)

I am interested in this answer also ^


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Moved some stuff around. Ludwigia sp. Red has been moved to wrap around the Rotala sp. Green. Rotala Wallichi and Panatal getting some nice color.







May go to the LFS later to get a 1/4 inch ABN Pleco later. I would just rehome it when it gets too big. 


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Looks good. I really like that big bush of R. sp. Green. Everything looks very lush and dense.


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## Brian_Cali77 (Mar 19, 2010)

Yeah good job, Joey! BTW, I just got AR "mini"... about 6 stems... when it grows out, I can send you some if you need it. Unless you're content with the regular AR?

On a side note: 
Btw, what ever happened to "chipmunk" on AA? umm, homecoming? Lol


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Brian_Cali77 said:


> Yeah good job, Joey! BTW, I just got AR "mini"... about 6 stems... when it grows out, I can send you some if you need it. Unless you're content with the regular AR?
> 
> On a side note:
> Btw, what ever happened to "chipmunk" on AA? umm, homecoming? Lol


Oh awesome! Yeah that would be great. I can send some Panatal and some other stems then. 

Haha I ended up breaking up with her. Too much drama! 


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## Brian_Cali77 (Mar 19, 2010)

Sounds like a good trade... I'll let you know, depending on how it fairs in my tank.

Dang dude... she got all into the planted tank / shrimp hobby because of you! then disappeared! I guess she didn't leave you all that new planted tank gear? It was funny too because she blamed you for being influenced into the hobby! Lol... oh well.


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Brian_Cali77 said:


> Sounds like a good trade... I'll let you know, depending on how it fairs in my tank.
> 
> Dang dude... she got all into the planted tank / shrimp hobby because of you! then disappeared! I guess she didn't leave you all that new planted tank gear? It was funny too because she blamed you for being influenced into the hobby! Lol... oh well.


Sounds good. 

Yeah sadly I didn't get to keep anything. I should've tried to get some stuff haha. Yeah sh*t happens! Lol


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## parrottbay (May 14, 2012)

Sorry to hear about her! So what are you going to do about the prom?


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

parrottbay said:


> Sorry to hear about her! So what are you going to do about the prom?


Haha I'm talking to some other girl right now. It's all good.  I'll have some pics up if the tank tomorrow. It's coming together  


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## parrottbay (May 14, 2012)

I cant wait! I will have to remember to check because I really enjoy how you reply to everyone's comments and keep this updated  So thank you! This thread makes me enjoy logging into this site!


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

parrottbay said:


> I cant wait! I will have to remember to check because I really enjoy how you reply to everyone's comments and keep this updated  So thank you! This thread makes me enjoy logging into this site!


Oh no problem man! I love doing this stuff so it's no big deal. I love helping. Thanks for the kind words  


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

I think I'm gojng to grab the smallest powerhead koralia makes and feed the co2 into it for better diffusion and better flow around the tank in general. Ideas?


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## Brian_Cali77 (Mar 19, 2010)

Why don't you get an inline atomic diffuser?


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Brian_Cali77 said:


> Why don't you get an inline atomic diffuser?


I thought about this too. It's just kinda pricey. Well, it's only about 15$ more though. Good call, Brian! 


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Ok- 7 weeks today. I think it's coming along nicely and I'm liking the results I'm getting other than the Macrandra. It still is curling. I think my water is a bit too hard for it. I'm looking into getting RO water here soon. I added two Painted Fire Red babies about a week ago and the ram or other fish won't even touch them! Te just stare them down. So that's good news. I'll probably get more. The tissue culture Downoi is a steal. You get so many crowns for 8$. Mine is finally taking shape. I need to trim the Rotala sp. green, just haven't got around to it yet. All fish are good. Once Brian gets his AR Mini going I'm going to buy some from him. 

I'm going to take back the lone Cory, add 4 more Rummies, 2 more neons, and that will finish out my stocking. Unless I get more shrimp.  

Final stock:
5 Neons
5 Rummies
5 Harlequins
2 Otos
1 Cobalt Goby
1 GBR
1 Peacock Gudgeon


Now for pics!
































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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

I may replace the Macrandra with some Limnophilia Aromatica if I can find some, or maybe even Rotala Colorata. If anyone has these let me know. 


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## Jack Gilvey (Jun 16, 2008)

Very nice!


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## Brian_Cali77 (Mar 19, 2010)

I think the atomic inline would be better than having more equipment in the tank...

As for those stems, you can have some of mine if you want to wait or sooner if you care to clean off the filament diatoms I'm currently going through. Although Janis would probably have better specimens for you.


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Jack Gilvey said:


> Very nice!


Thanks, Jack. 


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Brian_Cali77 said:


> I think the atomic inline would be better than having more equipment in the tank...
> 
> As for those stems, you can have some of mine if you want to wait or sooner if you care to clean off the filament diatoms I'm currently going through. Although Janis would probably have better specimens for you.


Yeah I'm gonna grab one I think. I may just go through GLA though. With prime it would be here by Thursday. Amazon it is! Haha. Yeah I'll just wait till you're out of that! I haven't had any algae yet other than the little bit of Rhizo that hitchhiked. Other than that, I've been clear. The ask god! :lol:


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## parrottbay (May 14, 2012)

Looks good, I could purchase some red rotala and grew it for us. I want some red in my tank with thin leaves. Do you know some nice red rotala?


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

parrottbay said:


> Looks good, I could purchase some red rotala and grew it for us. I want some red in my tank with thin leaves. Do you know some nice red rotala?


Hmm I know that Colorata, Singapore, H'ra, Mexicana, and sunset are are nice rotala species.


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## parrottbay (May 14, 2012)

I have Rotala sp. "H' ra" but it really doesn't show the red I want it too, it will occasionally show it on the tops of the stems... I looked at what you suggested through Bing search but the images are unclear but I think I really like the colorata from those images. I could send you some Rotala sp. "H' ra" though if you want some, maybe it will color up for you! Have any idea why it isn't for me?

Have to say this now, I went to my garage where I put my clippings from my thread tank into another ten gallon with half the amount of lighting, zero ferts, and only excel for C02 and the Rotala sp. "H' ra" is a deep red stem now with reddish pinkish leaves....  Any clue? I think I heard that the lack of a certain fert will bring out the red?

Correct me on this research if I am wrong, red coloration was stimulated by stressing, limiting **either** N or P in the presence of an adequate supply of K and the other nutrient. Sound correct? Since my other tank gets no ferts, with strict limitation of P forced them to turn a red color?


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Update Time!

I added 6 Rummies yesterday, and about a week or so ago I added 5 Pygmy cories. These guys are awesome! I'll be taking the big Cory back soon as I know longer like him. 

Elatine Triandra is a weed. Period. But it's a nice carpet plant, none the less. Downoi is taking off. I probably have about 30 crowns. Everything is growing nicely and no algae at all. I trim about 2 times a week still working on the Macrandra though.










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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Homecoming- just for sh*ts and giggles. Lol


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

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## Asu1776 (Mar 5, 2013)

Wow! The tank is looking very awesome! Love the color variations.


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## Brian_Cali77 (Mar 19, 2010)

Hey Joey...your tank looks great man! You ever get the glass top for the tank? Moonlights?


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## tithra (Dec 1, 2012)

Looks great! 
I added some e. Triandra recently too! It is definitely a weed. 

Cute picture too  your lady friend is very pretty


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## nickao (Jul 2, 2013)

That's a nice looking tank you got there. Did you get the dosing pump bottle from GLA or did you get it from somewhere else and put the lables on it because I can't seem to find it out the GLA website.


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Asu1776 said:


> Wow! The tank is looking very awesome! Love the color variations.


Thanks!


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

nickao said:


> That's a nice looking tank you got there. Did you get the dosing pump bottle from GLA or did you get it from somewhere else and put the lables on it because I can't seem to find it out the GLA website.


Yeah, I got the pump bottles on Amazon and made the labels. 


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Brian_Cali77 said:


> Hey Joey...your tank looks great man! You ever get the glass top for the tank? Moonlights?


Thanks, Brian. Nope, the glass top slipped my mind and I a haven't had a jumper since. I think it was because i had my water all the way to the edge. I'm working on getting those costco lights. I've just been busy with school.  


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

tithra said:


> Looks great!
> I added some e. Triandra recently too! It is definitely a weed.
> 
> Cute picture too  your lady friend is very pretty
> ...


Thanks, Tithra! To both compliments. My only complaint is that it grows on top of it self so easily and starves the under parts of light. 


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## nickao (Jul 2, 2013)

keats said:


> Yeah, I got the pump bottles on Amazon and made the labels.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2


I tried amazon too but no luck. Can you tell me what name you searched it under. Thanks in advance. Really like what you did with the pump bottles.


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

nickao said:


> I tried amazon too but no luck. Can you tell me what name you searched it under. Thanks in advance. Really like what you did with the pump bottles.












It was these, but I also saw skmeone who had some nice stainless steel ones for less than these. Let me see if I can find those. 


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

Daang Joe, that's looking fantastic! Give me a month or so and I'll send you a care package. I'd love some of that downoi when it comes time to trim.


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Phil Edwards said:


> Daang Joe, that's looking fantastic! Give me a month or so and I'll send you a care package. I'd love some of that downoi when it comes time to trim.


Thanks, Phil! sounds good! I need to check your build. Sure thing with the Downoi, when it gets a little bigger ill send some your way. 


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

keats said:


> ....


Excellent Effort!!

I think this is one of the harder aquascapes styles to do well. 

roud:


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

DogFish said:


> Excellent Effort!!
> 
> I think this is one of the harder aquascapes styles to do well.
> 
> roud:


Thanks.  It is by no means finished yet. Lol. Trying to get the Macrandra right, and grow out some Panatal. In due time. 


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

This looks really good. Nice work!



keats said:


>


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

hydrophyte said:


> This looks really good. Nice work!


Thanks. 


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## parrottbay (May 14, 2012)

What is the plant in the bottom right?


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

parrottbay said:


> What is the plant in the bottom right?


That would be Downoi or Pogostemon Helferi. 


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Alright, I did a massive trim this past weekend. I completely removed all 200 stems of Rotala sp. Green, moved the Wallichi over to the left side, the Ludwigia sp. Red next to if, and the Macrandra next to that. I have two stems of Panatal that will make the grouping on the far right side. I finally am growing Macrandra correctly! Knock on wood  all fish are doing fine. I'm going to work on keeping plants to the right heights to offer the best contrast and look. The Wallichi will be taller, the Ludwigia will stay shorter, and the Macrandra will be slightly taller. Everything is growing nuts. REAL pics to be uploaded tonight. I broke out my Canon 40D with a Macro. I think the shots are ok for the first try ever with a DSLR. For now, some 'ok' I phone pics.






































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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

I like the new look. Your old had great color but I felt it could use some "breathing room". I feel that this is going in more of the "traditional" dutch in design as well. I envy the fact you are willing to do a smaller amount of species with it filled in, only to take more out later. I am a glutton for punishment and have been adding like 2-3 stems until I am convinced I like it. Then I have to propagate it all.


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

talontsiawd said:


> I like the new look. Your old had great color but I felt it could use some "breathing room". I feel that this is going in more of the "traditional" dutch in design as well. I envy the fact you are willing to do a smaller amount of species with it filled in, only to take more out later. I am a glutton for punishment and have been adding like 2-3 stems until I am convinced I like it. Then I have to propagate it all.


I agree. The color will be even better since I upped my co2. I'm already seeing much better color. It will be a more traditional dutch scape.i do want a dark green plant, though for the right side if I don't like the Panatal grouping. I like Syngonanthus sp. Belem and feel it would work well in that small corner. I finally have an image in my head that I know how to attain after working with these plants for 2 months. Give me a week and a half and a couple trims and it will look much better. I have to trim 2 days a week. EI, a mini sun, and rediculous amounts of co2 can be a bit overkill. I'll take it though. I did the same thing. It just take some time to figure out what you want and what will work best.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

keats said:


> It just take some time to figure out what you want and what will work best.


My problem is I don't like to touch things twice. I find that to be my biggest challenge in this hobby, trying it nail it the first time. I end up not wanting to move things around, especially in front or back once they get going. Then after months, I finally pull something, replace it, and I am so much happier. Some how, I always forget that lesson.


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

I don't think anyone particularly likes moving things a lot, but sometimes it has to be done. Especially since the aquasoil leaves a dust cloud for a little. 


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

keats said:


> I don't think anyone particularly likes moving things a lot, but sometimes it has to be done. Especially since the aquasoil leaves a dust cloud for a little.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2


This is my first time using AS and even just cleaning the glass, my tank is semi cloudy for a few hours. If I sneeze, it gets cloudy. It was weird not sticking my hands in the tank for 4-5 days as I never realized how clear my actual tank is, much less the water inside.


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## davidadelp (Aug 26, 2013)

Very nice looking tank! It has grown in a lot! I love the Peacock Gudgeon my LFS has a few in stock I didn't know what it was when I first seen it, come payday I believe im going to go back and get 2 of them. 

Very nice looking date you had there as well, Id keep her around if I were you. lol


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Anyone know what's up with my ram?? She's really bloated. I noticed some algae so I cranked he co2 a little higher. still trying to dial it in for good. Cleaned the pipes for the first time today. They were dirty! It increased flow a lot, too. Everything is well. Letting it grow back again after a massive trim.

















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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Well, I lost my ram. I'm not quite sure what happened but everything else is perfectly fine. I spied what looks to be a baby Altum Angel at the LFS on Tuesday. I'm hoping they still have it. I'll have it for a long time based on how small it is. If they don't have it, I'm going to look into ordering a pair of electric blue rams from the buy/sell forum. Tank is in need of a trim and I trimmed it four days ago. Oh well, nature of the beast.


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## Brian_Cali77 (Mar 19, 2010)

Sorry to hear you lost your Ram. They're just a touchy fish that you could have done everything perfectly, and it would have died regardless. Weak genetics. Hit or miss. I wouldn't get the angel... it's going to get too big for that tank and it's going to be a PITA to rehome. Just get the electric rams or an apisto of sorts.


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Yeahhh I guess so. I'm really banking on this 40 long I have in my basement. I'm going to reseal it and set it up around Christmas. Low tech planted- lots of Java Fern and anubias. That the only reason I'm considering it. Well see.


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## Brian_Cali77 (Mar 19, 2010)

Well if you get the 40 fixed, then that's cool.


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

I'm going to ponder it some more. If I can find some triple reds I would get those


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Ok so here a FTS. I ditched the Panatal because I just couldn't fit it into the layout well. Sold it to the LFS for 8$ a stem! Sold 3 stems so I managed to get a pair of fluval plant scissors, and still have 12$ left in store credit. I had another jumping harlequin so that's even more of a reason to upgrade to a controllable LED. hint hint, Brian. I moved a portion of Blyxa to the right back comer to fill in. The scape will be how I want it as soon as that grows in and I get better color out of the Macrandra. What was sold to me at petco as Wallichi is definately Nanjenshan, so if you're going to they it at PC, expect Nanjenshan. Found a berried PFR! couldn't snap a pic but I'll have some babies soon. I think most will be able to survive in the mess of Blyxa they hide in.
























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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Very jealous of your reds. Can't wait till they grow in a bit.


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

talontsiawd said:


> Very jealous of your reds. Can't wait till they grow in a bit.


Thank you. I'm planning on keeping them shorter and more compact, but I want them to grow bushier. 


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

keats said:


> Thank you. I'm planning on keeping them shorter and more compact, but I want them to grow bushier.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2


Well, either way works. I really meant I can't wait for them to fill in. Looking great though.


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## RyanMan (Sep 14, 2013)

Lookin good Joey! Took a while to find you.. I see The Planted Tank is where it's at now


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Good looks, Ryan! I still frequent AA but I only really post updates here since my image quota has even used up. 


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## RyanMan (Sep 14, 2013)

I'm curious about how much Glutaraldehyde you're using in this tank. Are you diluting it, or dosing it straight?


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

RyanMan said:


> I'm curious about how much Glutaraldehyde you're using in this tank. Are you diluting it, or dosing it straight?


I dilute it 1:1. I pretty much dose about 20mls a day. Lol! 


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## RyanMan (Sep 14, 2013)

I see... I'm diluting 1:1.5 so I guess my stuff is a little weaker. But I'm also dosing on a 54G aquarium! I dose 27mL per day. Do you keep your stored glut sealed off from light completely? I think mine is actually breaking down because it's stored in a GLA fertilizer bottle in my aquarium stand.


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

RyanMan said:


> I see... I'm diluting 1:1.5 so I guess my stuff is a little weaker. But I'm also dosing on a 54G aquarium! I dose 27mL per day. Do you keep your stored glut sealed off from light completely? I think mine is actually breaking down because it's stored in a GLA fertilizer bottle in my aquarium stand.


I keep mine in an old excel bottle and then remix as needed. A bottle typically lasts me about a month or so. Mine seems to be working fine. I noticed the one day I dosed 21mls the water got cloudy so 20 mls is my max dose. 


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## RyanMan (Sep 14, 2013)

Oh that's good that you found that sweet spot! I've never thought about looking for the limit... I also diluted mine with tap water, but I'm assuming it's fine.


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

RyanMan said:


> Oh that's good that you found that sweet spot! I've never thought about looking for the limit... I also diluted mine with tap water, but I'm assuming it's fine.


I dilute with tap, too.  no worries. I haven't found a problem with it yet, so I'm just gonna keep going. 


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## parrottbay (May 14, 2012)

Where do you get your glut and is it cheap? Is it better than excel?


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

My dad is a dentist, so I get wholesale prices. He occasionally uses/used it to sterilize instruments, so he jut orders an extra gallon for me when he orders his stuff for the month. I think I get it for like 9$ a gallon? Not too sure. So I get 2 gallons of excel for 9$ once it's diluted. It's the same active ingredient as excel. It just needs to be diluted. 


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

What's up, TPT! 

So recently this week I changed out bulbs from one Gieseman Midday and one Aquaticlife 6700K, to the Gieseman and an Aquaticlife Rosette. I have to say, I like the bulb combination much better. The fish "pop" more, and I'm getting much better color on my plants. I also upped co2 a tad, so that probably contributed to the extra color. I need to trim tomorrow so I'll post more pics after I trim. It doesn't look that great right now because the groups are all out of whack. This will be the 3rd trim this week. Everything grows about 5-6 inches in 3-4 days. Crazy. I want to replace the Elatine Triandra with UG, and get rid of most of the Downoi to make room for some AR Mini. The Downoi isn't growing much. I don't know why. The Blyxa grows extremely fast. I may add some Limno to the mix, but I'm trying to see where. I don't know. Sometime this month I'll finally be setting up a 10 gallon shrimp tank with CRS and later down the line, Taiwan Bees. So pre trim pics- Ill post post trim tomorrow. I have to send out some Macrandra to Parrotbay, too. I have it looking half decent now. It's all a co2 thing. Thanks for checking in, guys! Pretty soon I'll be having brain surgery to remove a tumor from my right cerebellum, so my dad will be taking care of things. Well see how that goes! Haha.






































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## parrottbay (May 14, 2012)

Hey brother, thanks for telling us about your upcoming surgery... Let us know when so we can keep you in your thoughts and prayers. Thanks for hooking me up also but don't worry about it. Just enjoy your time before the surgery and not about me lol. We can figure out something after you get better


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

parrottbay said:


> Hey brother, thanks for telling us about your upcoming surgery... Let us know when so we can keep you in your thoughts and prayers. Thanks for hooking me up also but don't worry about it. Just enjoy your time before the surgery and not about me lol. We can figure out something after you get better


Thanks, man. I'm gonna try to get to the post office maybe tomorrow or next weekend and send some out. I want to get it done before the surgery. 


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Looks good and I will pray for a quick and speedy recovery on the surgery.


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## parrottbay (May 14, 2012)

Is this the glut you are referring to? http://www.amazon.com/MetriCide%C2%AE-28-High-Level-Disinfectant-Sterilant/dp/B000XYVEDA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1384741300&sr=8-1&keywords=Glutaraldehyde


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## tetra10 (Aug 5, 2012)

you will be in our prayers! hope you have a quick recovery man.


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

parrottbay said:


> Is this the glut you are referring to? http://www.amazon.com/MetriCide®-28...qid=1384741300&sr=8-1&keywords=Glutaraldehyde


Yep! Just dilute 1:1. Keep it in a light blocking container though because light will break it down. 


Also, thanks for the well wishes, everyone! 


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Post trim! I have some UG, Limnophilia Aromatica, and Mini AR coming soon. Thanks a lot, man. I had to hack down everything. This took about an hour cutting about 150 stems and replanting them. I got rid of my Downoi. I didn't like how it was filling in. I'm planning on a UG carpet with AR Mini in the right front corner in front of the Blyxa. I may replace the Nanjenshan all together with Limno.








Never looks good right after a trim. I'll post some clear ones today when co2 is pumping. 
Anyone need any Downoi?

















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## Bserve (Nov 4, 2012)

I'll take it!


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

All cleared up!










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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

I trimmed up everything a lot shorter today since the holiday this week. Won't have too mch time to trim. I added a new GBR female yesterday. I'll put pics up when she fully colors up. I plan on adding a male Gold Ram. I also got some Rotala Rotundifolia. Well see how that looks. 

FTS










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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Here's a better pic!










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## Brian_Cali77 (Mar 19, 2010)

Looking superb... Great arrangement and groupings of plants. The force is strong with this one! Well done!


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## STS_1OO (Nov 28, 2012)

Read about your surgery and although I haven't read the entirety of the thread, I did want to interject here and wish you all the luck and a speedy recovery.


And of course, the tank looks awesome - keep up the good work


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Thanks very much! 


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## parrottbay (May 14, 2012)

Any idea how soon till the surgery?


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

parrottbay said:


> Any idea how soon till the surgery?


December 11th is the date. I will have some time this week so I can probably ship then. 


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

New Friend. I plan on getting a male gold ram to change up the color. I like the thought of a pair since I already have a female, but I want a gold male. 


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## billbug68 (Aug 23, 2012)

It's looking really good, Joey. I think that blyxa is gonna take over the tank soon, though... Haha


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Yeah I really need to thin that out 


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## parrottbay (May 14, 2012)

I am not worried about it, I was only asking so I can be aware that you wont be around and when to be hoping for that speedy recovery. When do they think you will be at your optimal percentage again after a surgery like that?


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

They told me that I should be able to snowboard by the first week of January so I guess then! Haha.


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## billbug68 (Aug 23, 2012)

keats said:


> They told me that I should be able to snowboard by the first week of January so I guess then! Haha.


Oh god dude... Nothing will stop you!


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Haha just gotta take things in stride I've learned.


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## parrottbay (May 14, 2012)

I am sorry to pry but I will be looking forward from hearing from you around that time so I will know all is well  Hope you get to snowboard soon


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

No worries, man! Thanks a lot actually. I'll keep everyone updated.


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Another random one. Filled in a little since the trim. I hacked down that one stem of Ammania sp. bonsai. New plants coming this week so stay tuned. Maybe I should get out the DSLR and actually upload the pics this time. 










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## parrottbay (May 14, 2012)

Alright, I thought my reply went through but I guess it didn't. Basically it said I was just curious to know when to expect you back, so we can know that you are fine etc. sorry UFO seemed intrusive, just cared.


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## parrottbay (May 14, 2012)

Btw that front green plant. Is that rotala green?


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

parrottbay said:


> Btw that front green plant. Is that rotala green?


The foreground plant is Elatine Triandra. 


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

parrottbay said:


> Alright, I thought my reply went through but I guess it didn't. Basically it said I was just curious to know when to expect you back, so we can know that you are fine etc. sorry UFO seemed intrusive, just cared.


No problem man. I should be back by the 20th at the latest. I'm sure I'll have my iPad in the hospital. 


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Another note- I'm convinced that the only way I'll be able to grow macrandra is with RO water. My Gh must be too high. I can't really turn my co2 up any higher and I've heard of people having problems like mine with too hard of water. RO Buddie is coming from Santa  


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## Discusdude7 (Sep 14, 2013)

keats said:


> Another random one. Filled in a little since the trim. I hacked down that one stem of Ammania sp. bonsai. New plants coming this week so stay tuned. Maybe I should get out the DSLR and actually upload the pics this time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Beautiful tank. I'm jealous.


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Thank you very much. 


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Ok guys! 

Today was a great day! Opening day of snowboarding and plants came.  First off, I need to thank my anonymous plant donor for the insane amount of plants they sent me. All the plants came in tip top shape. I was given so much UG I had to rip up my entire Elatine Triandra carpet! I can't thank you enough. KCCO. They sent me some AR Mini which is in the bottom right, and some Limnophilia Aromatica which is now in between the Rotala Macrandra and the Blyxa. Can't wait for the UG to fill in. I like the look of the tank now much better. It will look good when it fills in, I think. I had a lot more Ammania sp. bonsai stems than I had originally thought because they were covered up. It forms a nice little group. Starting to somewhat get this whole scaping with only plants. Haha. It's not even close to Dutch. Here's some pics. 

FTS









Check out the Blyxa roots! All of these are going to the LFS tomorrow for credit. For reference, my hand base to tip of middle finger is 8 inches. 










UG! 











Happy belated Thanksgiving to everyone! 


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## Brian_Cali77 (Mar 19, 2010)

Nice update... that UG is going to look nice there when it fills in. I hope it doesn't take too long to acclimate before it starts to grow. Great flora additions all around!


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Seeing some nice growth from the Limno, a bit from the AR Mini and I can't tell with the UG. I'm probably going to move some AR Mini where the normal AR is for better scaping. I'm gonna need to remove the Blyxa from the left side. It gets too tall. Then the Nanjenshan and AR Mini can be seen easier. I will replace it with Tropica 049 most likely. And allow the Hydrocotyle to run in front of that. Other than that, the other plant arrangements will be good. Once I replace the Blyxa with 049 and the UG and AR Mini fills in ill get some DSLR pics.










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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

I got bored and rearranged everything. I like it much better










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## Bserve (Nov 4, 2012)

keats said:


> I got bored and rearranged everything. I like it much better
> 
> 
> 
> ...


OMG so much better


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Had another Harlequin jump. I went from 6 to two now. I'm gonna rehome the last two and my three neons and get 6 cardinals. I'll have 6 cards and 6 Rummies, a pair of rams, a Peacock Gudgeon, and an Oto. 


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## Brian_Cali77 (Mar 19, 2010)

I like the reorganizing... good to hear the plants are doing well. Too bad about your jumpers. I honestly think it's the lights abruptly turning on and off.


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Brian_Cali77 said:


> I like the reorganizing... good to hear the plants are doing well. Too bad about your jumpers. I honestly think it's the lights abruptly turning on and off.


Thanks, Brian. I'm positive that it's the lights. It only seems to affect the harlequins, though. I would rather have Cardinals Anyway. Or maybe I could do embers.. How many embers do you think I could fit in with 6 Rummies and a pair of rams? 


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

I feel like if I had two male rams they wouldn't follow each other around and sleep in the same spot at night, but I can't tell. They look the same to me. Haha.










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## parrottbay (May 14, 2012)

Hey,

Was looking at your first post about your equipment to include the floramax. Is all that correct or has things changed like your lights?

James


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

parrottbay said:


> Hey,
> 
> Was looking at your first post about your equipment to include the floramax. Is all that correct or has things changed like your lights?
> 
> James


Everything remains the same but I used the floramax as a fake powersand. I used AS normal over that. 


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## parrottbay (May 14, 2012)

Thanks for the clarification for me, does your T5 have independent reflectors?


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

parrottbay said:


> Thanks for the clarification for me, does your T5 have independent reflectors?


Yeah it has independent reflectors. Not as good as the reflectors on the ATI and Tek fixtures. 


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## parrottbay (May 14, 2012)

keats said:


> Yeah it has independent reflectors. Not as good as the reflectors on the ATI and Tek fixtures.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2


 I have a Tek light. It has never been used bc it is a t5hox6 haha and way to long for ANY of my tanks... So I am assuming the Tek lights are nice then?


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

parrottbay said:


> I have a Tek light. It has never been used bc it is a t5hox6 haha and way to long for ANY of my tanks... So I am assuming the Tek lights are nice then?


Tek and ATI are the nicest T5HO fixtures money can buy 


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Current FTS. I'm probably gonna switch out the Blyxa on front for 049. It looks too uniform with it stretching the whole group. Colors are nice, however. AR mini, UG, and Limnophilia Aromatica are recovering nicely and starting to grow. The rocks are just there to grow out moss. Mini Fissidens, specifically. I have a small crown of Downoi I'm grown out, too.










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## parrottbay (May 14, 2012)

Tank is looking amazing! Thanks for the info!


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

I would love to put a couple Erio Cinerum in the front where the Blyxa currently is. If anyone has some, let me know. 


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Well, tomorrow is the big day. I'm wading to Philadelphia tomorrow and I should be out of surgery by 3. They said around 6 hours, so well see. Gave the tank a trim, and I'll have someone dosing for me. I NEED to get my co2 tank filled today or I'll be looking at an algae farm when I get home. Lol










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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Good luck my dude. Hope you have a speedy recovery process.


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## Bserve (Nov 4, 2012)

Good luck and a speedy recovery!


Sent from my Canon 70D


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## nofearengineer (Mar 20, 2013)

You can always tell a true planted tank nut when they make sure to trim and scape in preparation for surgery. :thumbsup:

Sweet little Dutch and good luck, man.


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Well, 25 stitches and 12 titanium screws later I'm done! I'm actually getting discharged three days early. Thank you all for your support and kindness. I would post pictures but I'm not sure if you guys want to see them. LOL. 


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## Brian_Cali77 (Mar 19, 2010)

Hooray! I'm so glad to hear that the operation went smoothly and that you're okay! Here's to a speedy recovery!


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Brian_Cali77 said:


> Hooray! I'm so glad to hear that the operation went smoothly and that you're okay! Here's to a speedy recovery!


Thanks, Bro! Hope everything is ok on your end, too. 


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## Brian_Cali77 (Mar 19, 2010)

Yeah everything is okay. Just a lot of work to get back on our feet. Tomorrow we'll be moving the large salvageable items out from our old place, clean them well, then move them into the new place. Both places are on the 2nd floor. I'll be getting my exercise on for sure! 

LMK if you need some mini fissidens. I know you mentioned a small piece was found in the plants you received. But if it's not enough, I can send some. Didn't even know you wanted some of that! LOL


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Sounds good. Hope everything goes smoothly. 

Haha I didn't even want any! Lol. I found it stuck to some UG so I just superglued it to a rock and well see what happens. But thanks, man!


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## parrottbay (May 14, 2012)

Awesome, I'm really relieved to hear this....


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

parrottbay said:


> Awesome, I'm really relieved to hear this....


Thanks man! This is the tanks growth in 3 days










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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Ok guys-

So this will be my last update until the UG grows in. It's sending a ton of tiny runners. Seems to be doing well. I'm going to get some 049 to put in front of the Macrandra for a nice shade of green. Trimming is key as I have found out because it creats all the depth. I don't know if you can tell in the pictures, but everything is trimmed at an angle going back and sideways. In really excited for all of this to grow in so it's a completed scape again. I'm getting pretty nice colors, too.

















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## Betta132 (Nov 29, 2012)

Not sure if you still have it, but I can tell you that the gudgeon is a male. Females usually have black edges on their fins, though some of them don't, and the main way to tell that it's a male is by the rounded head shape. If you get any more, look for ones with black-edged fins, those are guaranteed to be female.


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Yep I still have it. He's doing great. What's the chances of them breeding if I get another?


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## parrottbay (May 14, 2012)

Haven't saw an update on this in awhile and I get on daily just to see


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Thanks for asking! You made me clean things up a bit. Haha. I hadnt trimmed in a looooong time. I fixed up everything and I'm going to order some wood from Tom Barr for a real scape. I'm letting the UG grow in. It's growing very nicely now that it has acclimated. Here's a pic of my new endeavor. A Nano Reef! Very easy so far. It's in the diatom phase right now, so it looks kinda crappy.
























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## parrottbay (May 14, 2012)

Looks awesome, I was thinking of getting some wood from him alsolol. I have always wanted to do a salt water frag tank. What do you do with your trimmings?


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## II Knucklez II (Oct 31, 2011)

awesome tank


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Thank you!


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Lately I have been throwing away all my trimmings because I've no time to ship. I hadn't even dosed anything for a month, and that explains why I couldn't get the AR Mini to stop stunting. As soon as I dosed again it's now beautiful and bright red again. I can't wait for the UG to cover the substrate. The tank is back on track after a month of neglect. No algae either, surprisingly.










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## billbug68 (Aug 23, 2012)

Looks great, Joey. It's easy to get distracted when setting up other tanks... I did the same thing when I started my SW tank. Focused too heavily on that and let others go for a while... Gotta stay motivated!


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## Brian_Cali77 (Mar 19, 2010)

Yup... looks like it's reset back for success. Great work on the trimming and some rearranging. 

You and Bill are making me want to try a nano reef! My GF would have a fit though. So vicariously living through your builds will have to do (for now). BTW, what's the link to your SW tank thread?


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Thanks, guys! For sure, Bill. It's very exciting. The UG really took off about a week ago, Brian. More than half died but now it's a weed. You should definitely try a nano when you can. It's so much fun. The diversity of life is amazing. I actually added some new coral last night. It's quite simple, actually. I tested my levels today and everything was at zero thanks to purigen and chemi pure. 

Here it is- http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2359240&page=2


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## parrottbay (May 14, 2012)

So with your salt water build, did you get that buddy ro system?


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

No actually I didn't. I've just been buying from the LFS since I only go through about 5 gallons in a month. I just but distilled for top offs. 


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## parrottbay (May 14, 2012)

Okay, just was curious


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Did a filter cleaning today and it improved flow drastically. Probably added atleast 15gph extra. I turned up the co2 a bit to try and get some better color and growth from my plants. We will see how that goes. I took out the purigen to recharge it, but I think I'm going to use it on the reef because it's been used up now for about 3 months, and my water clarity is always good. I trmed back the Macrandra big time because it grows so fast. The other plants will be in perfect position for when the Macrandra grows in again. I moved the Ammania sp. bonsai in front of the Limnophilia Aromatica. The bit of Rotala sp. green I had there looked to similar. I moved that over in front of the Lugwigia sp. red for better contrast. Still waiting on the UG to fill in. It's growing very fast now. I trim and replant the trimmings.










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## The Trigger (May 9, 2012)

Beautiful tank!


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Thank you very much. I'll be satisfied when the UG fills in. 


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## The Trigger (May 9, 2012)

keats said:


> Thank you very much. I'll be satisfied when the UG fills in.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2


Yup can't wait to see the results


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Thinking of converting this to an iwagumi to focus on my reef...suggestions?


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## Brian_Cali77 (Mar 19, 2010)

Ahhh... getting sucked in deeper to the dark side. Do an Ohko stone iwagumi!


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

That's what I was thinking. That stone has so much character...and I hate trimming stems. I would keep it UG and maybeeeee DHG patches. 


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## Brian_Cali77 (Mar 19, 2010)

What species of DHG?

So are you planning to expand on the reef somehow with an upgrade or additional tank?


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Probably Acicularis since it gets a bit bigger.

Actually, were finishing our basement this spring and in the summer I'm planning on putting in a 60g shallow cube. I saw one that is pre drilled at the LFS. Starphire glass and rimless. Just need to save some money. 


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## parrottbay (May 14, 2012)

Looking good man, I don't think that you ever gave us the key on how you were able to obtain a better red color from the plants when you were having trouble with it, could you please expand on this?


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

I'm not quite to be honest 😳 I just know when I would see a co2 problem The Macrandra would turn a nice deep red but the leaves would shrivel. It's a very strange occurrence. I'm not suite sure why it happens. My favorite LFS is going out of business so I decided to grab something just to see how it does.







I know, I know. I need to clean the pipes. LOL


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## parrottbay (May 14, 2012)

Very cool, I can't seem to keep any shrimp alive in any of my tanks... Do you use ro?


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Nope. But they were listed at 4.95 so I had to try one. Haha. 


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

I found a seller on eBay selling these stones. Thoughts on the seller? I like the stones.










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## Brian_Cali77 (Mar 19, 2010)

Joey, sending you a PM.


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## parrottbay (May 14, 2012)

Brian_Cali77 said:


> Joey, sending you a PM.


Hopefully Brian has a better option or idea.


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

Here's the latest FTS.









Soon to be an iwagumi after i let the UG carpet. I've decided in order to save money, I'm going to complete the scape first. 


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## parrottbay (May 14, 2012)

Joey,

With your metricide 28, do you use the activator or throw it out? Also, is it still a 1:1 ratio with RO water?

Thanks,
James


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## keats (Apr 26, 2013)

do NOT use the activator. Yes, 1:1


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## parrottbay (May 14, 2012)

Any update?


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## peachii (Jun 1, 2013)

Just wanted to say I'm glad you recovered well and remained so upbeat. This tank is looking awesome and sorry about your reef issues, good luck with it recovering.


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