# Algae problems



## messfish (Nov 12, 2015)

I am having major issues with algae. I haven't tried a commercial product like Algafix. I'd prefer to get my aquarium balanced, but I need help.

I set up the planted tank about 6 months ago. It's 29 Long, with a Fluval 206 filter, ECO complete – 50lb. I keep the temp around 75F

Feedings - small pinch flake food two times a day and occasional supplement of brine shrimp, blood worms, or veggie pellets 

Fish - 3 guppies, 2 platies, 4 neons, 1 pleco, 2 mollies 

I do 25% water changes q 2 weeks and test every month Ph is a little high 7.6-7.8 and all test are good: 0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrate, 0 Nitrite I use filtered water (not RO) pH 7.6, and Flourish Excel – ½ cap every week or so

I've had issues with hair algae soon after I added the plants and more recently have added a blue green algae to the mix. I tried dosing with 3% H2O2 and added a bag of PhosGuard to the filter.

A few weeks ago I added Aquatek mini CO2 that runs with the lights, 1 drop every 2 seconds
Lights - Finnex 24/7 planted light – they run for 8-10 hours full sun setting. 

I hand picked the algae and try vacuuming it whenever I do water changes. Last week I removed ½ of the Italian val, dipped the plants peroxide solution, wiped the leaves and replanted but the algae is still there!

The plants are healthy looking and the fish are doing great – just saw a baby guppy this morning! I will post some pictures of the algae. I am a beginner at planted tanks so if anyone has advice it would be much appreciated.


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## touch of sky (Nov 1, 2011)

Are you doing any fertilizing? If so, could you tell us what you are using.


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## messfish (Nov 12, 2015)

No, I 'm not using any fertilizer. Thought the ECO complete provided enough fertilizer for the first year. I just use Flourish Excel (which I may not need? now that I started the in-line CO2)


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## touch of sky (Nov 1, 2011)

Flourish Excel is a source of carbon. Excel is often used instead of pressurized CO2. It isn't fertilizer. It would ideally be used daily. The recommended dose is on the bottle. I would start using it daily, or at the very least, every second day.
The other thing I notice is that you have 0 nitrates. A planted tank should have a nitrate reading, since plants need nitrates to grow. A reading of around 20 ppm is ideal. Plants also need phosphate and potassium. Did you start using phosguard because you had a high phosphate reading? You will have to start a fertilizing routine. With a low tech tank, this will be minimal, however, before we get to that, could you tell me whether or not you had high phosphates.


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## jrill (Nov 20, 2013)

Your probably in the high side of medium in light. If it were me I would follow EI dosing and up your co2_ a bunch. 1 bubble every two seconds on a 29 is nothing. 

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## Natasha (Nov 22, 2015)

I would agree that ferts may be the answer to a lot of your problems. My only question would be whether your water parameters are like that every day of the 2 weeks or whether you see any variability. 

I recently had some trouble with a BGA variant, and my reading found that low nitrates were the main cause. I started dosing macros and increased the flow in my tank and its decreased by ~75% in a week. No removal, no H2O2, no excel as an algaecide. I might start looking into a light macro and micro dosing if I were you.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

Having good light without ferts is like hitting the gas pedal of a corvette, but there's one problem, there's no gas in the car. Everything stalls and algae creeps in.


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## messfish (Nov 12, 2015)

No, I didn't check my phosphate levels. I added the Phosguard because I read an article that said high phosphates are often the cause of algae blooms. I'm removing it today since it seems more likely that I need to add phosphate and other fertilizers to get my tank in balance. Not sure what to start adding first but I'll start dosing the Excel daily as you suggested


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

You need to have everything going together, co2/light/ferts. Try to cut off as many affected leaves as possible, but you need to dose Macros and Micros. The eco complete won't add much for your setup. Nilocg is a member here and he sells everything you need at very good prices. I get my ferts from him for my setups.


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## R_Barber001 (Oct 5, 2011)

co2


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## touch of sky (Nov 1, 2011)

If it were my tank, I would decrease the duration of the light down to 7 hours. Once you get the algae under control, you could gradually increase it up to 8 hours. I would have the CO2 come on 1 hour before the lights come on and off 1 hour before they go off. I would increase the CO2, but do it slowly and only when you are home, so you can watch your fish. You don't want to risk adding too much and killing them. Also, I am not sure how heavily planted your tank is. Do you have a photo of the whole tank?


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## messfish (Nov 12, 2015)

Here's a picture of my tank. OK, I'll decrease the CO2. Thanks for your help. Thinking about ordering a PPS-Pro macro and micro fertilizer package to begin daily dosing


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## touch of sky (Nov 1, 2011)

You should INCREASE the CO2, but do it slowly, and do it when you are home, so you can watch your fish. Don't increase it too quickly. Decrease the duration of time the lights are on, down to 7 hours. When you start fertilizing, I would start slowly, and increase the dosage as the plants begin to grow. You can also remove as much of the thread algae as you can by wrapping it around a toothbrush and carefully pulling it out. When you make changes, you may not see an improvement in your plants for around two weeks. You can try to gravel vac out the blue-green algae. 
So, make the changes, then see how things go for a couple of weeks. The improvement in your plant growth and decrease in algae will not be immediate.
I also want to say that your tank looks quite lovely!


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

messfish said:


> Thinking about ordering a PPS-Pro macro and micro fertilizer package to begin daily dosing


Aquarium ecosystem starts with water source, what are your source water specs, or what do you know about it?


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## messfish (Nov 12, 2015)

I use a Dual Stage carbon filter for my aquarium water. It supposed to filter most contaminates and chlorine. I haven't tested any specs other than the pH - which runs on the high side. It's around 7.7. I've been filling 5 gallon buckets for water changes - but I recently got a Python no-spill gravel filter that hooks up directly to the tap and makes it real easy to drain and fill the tank with straight tap water - I did this last time and just added some de-chlorinator when I finished.


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

Hi
Once you have CO2 you don’t need Excel and the PhosGuard can go out too. The CO2 range of 1 bubble per two seconds is not enough under your lights. You need about 3 bps, bubbles per second. 
Is your light on max for the 8 – 10 hours or does it include the sunrise and sunset?

You can find here what nutrients you need and where to get them from, here how to mix them and here about the only water test you will need. This test is a TDS meter that will help you determine when to do water changes.

For the fertilizer, dose PPS-Pro solution #1 macros at 3 ml daily and solution #2 micros at 6 drops daily, for your 29 gallon aquarium. 

Water changes are triggered by elevated TDS meter readings. For example, if your tap reads 300 µS and your aquarium water reaches 100 µS more, 300 + 100 = 400, then it is the time to do a water change. The goal is to maintain less than 400 µS. No other testing is needed.


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## messfish (Nov 12, 2015)

I turn the lights and CO2 on manually, running them both for 8-10 hours. I'd like to have them on for 7 hours (maybe 8) and offset the CO2 to come on an hour earlier and turn off an hour before the lights go off so I need to buy a couple of timers. The remote for the Finnex 24/7 is a piece of junk - it broke after about a week and I have it taped shut so I rarely use the special settings. I'm also a little skeptical about the sunrise and sunset settings - they seem to run for a long time - so maybe they're not working right.

I just ordered the PPS-Pro package from Greenleaf Aquarium so I'll start the recommended dosing of macros and micros.

Thanks for the TDS information. I love the simplicity of the idea and plan to get one. They have a few choices on Amazon but the $14 model only measures in ppm - the reference you linked says the meter should be calibrated to micro Siemens. Here's a more expensive TDS meter that seems to be a good option?

HM Digital AP-2 MALIDA Water Quality Electrical Conductivity Tester, 0-9999 µS Range, 1 µS Resolution, +/- 2% Readout Accuracy: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

Also, I'm trying to hand remove as much algae as possible before I start fertilizing next week . The toothbrush idea works great - especially for removing hair algae without damaging the plants.


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## klibs (May 1, 2014)

messfish said:


> No, I 'm not using any fertilizer. Thought the ECO complete provided enough fertilizer for the first year.


Nope. More light than you need for your plant mass/selection, probably lack of nutrients (ferts) are your issues.

Start slow with ferts.. It doesn't take much


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

That is a lot of light for 18” high aquarium when you run it on max for 10 hours a day. I would go for 7 hours. 



messfish said:


> HM Digital AP-2 MALIDA Water Quality Electrical Conductivity Tester, 0-9999 ÂµS Range, 1 ÂµS Resolution, +/- 2% Readout Accuracy: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific


 This TDS meter looks like a very good unit.


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## MikeP_123 (Aug 31, 2008)

Thanks for the post, I am finding this info very useful! My solution was 4 SAEs and a handful of amano, crs, and rcs. Oh and a pleco that I forget exists. They are doing a good job keeping it under control... but would rather have a balance like you are going for.

I dose flourish once a week, so should prob add macros


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## messfish (Nov 12, 2015)

My battle with Algae continues - I have macro and micro PPS-Pro fertilizers coming this week so I decided to begin my war against algae. 

Day 1 - after removing as much algae as possible with a toothbrush I spot dosed with hydrogen peroxide 3% using 1 ml per gallon - so for my 29 g tank I used about 25-30 ml. I kept the filter running and CO2 (Not sure if this makes sense but I thought it would keep the fish happier)

Day 2 - I did a 30% water change today and rinsed the filters. I recently got a Python no spill Clean and Fill maintenance system and it makes water changes so much easier! The pressure from your faucet draws the water out and dumps directly into the sink. I wish the pressure was a little stronger but you can use any faucet so it would be possible to use an outdoor faucet if you need stronger suction. I also used the tap to refill the so tank so I added water conditioner. And I dosed with Flourish Excel. If you have one dry the Python tubing out with an air pump for blowing up mattresses.

Day 3 - the tank looks pretty good so. I am wondering if someone could comment on the plants - the crypts have root-like hairs in the center of each plant. Is this normal or another algae that I should be removing?


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

Hi
You will have fewer algae if you use a timer and shorten the light period to 7 hours. Also you mentioned zero NO3. You could feed the fish more to get some N until you receive fertilizers.


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## messfish (Nov 12, 2015)

Edward said:


> For the fertilizer, dose PPS-Pro solution #1 macros at 3 ml daily and solution #2 micros at 6 drops daily, for your 29 gallon aquarium.


I have a question about dosing the Plantex (micros). According to the Green Leaf Aquarium you dose the macros at 1 ml per 10 gallons daily (same as your instructions) but they say the micros are also dosed at 1 ml per 10 gallons daily (based on the concentrations below) Your dosing is only 2 drops per 10 gallons. 
Is your dosing regimen more conservative or am I missing something? 

Step 1.

Bottle #1 – use your digital scale to weigh the following ferts, then place dry contents in bottle:

K2SO4 – 29 grams
KNO3 – 33 grams
KH2PO4 – 3 grams
MgSO4 – 20 grams



Step 2.

Bottle #2 – use your digital scale to weigh the following ferts, then place dry contents in bottle:

Plantex CSM+B – 40 grams


Step 3.

Fill both bottles with distilled or reverse osmosis (RO) water, up to the 500mL water level line. Screw on caps tightly and shake well. Let the mixture sit over night until dissolved completely.

How to dose the mixture…

The recommended dosing quantity is 1 mL of each bottle per every 10 gallons or 40 litres of aquarium water. Dose daily, prior to your aquarium lights turning on.


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

Hi
Trace elements concentrations are referenced to Fe ppm in the trace mix. Over the years people were dosing between 0.01 and 0.1 ppm a day. Truly, this is quite large range and it took years to get some more understanding why. 
The recommendation now is to dose 1/10th of the formally recommended quantity with a note, _May need to dose more if pale new growth appears_. 

For more detailed information please see here.


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## messfish (Nov 12, 2015)

Thanks! i started dosing today with the 1/10th micro recommendation for the trace mix.


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## messfish (Nov 12, 2015)

Edward said:


> For the fertilizer, dose PPS-Pro solution #1 macros at 3 ml daily and solution #2 micros at 6 drops daily, for your 29 gallon aquarium.
> 
> Water changes are triggered by elevated TDS meter readings. For example, if your tap reads 300 µS and your aquarium water reaches 100 µS more, 300 + 100 = 400, then it is the time to do a water change. The goal is to maintain less than 400 µS. No other testing is needed.


I received my new TDS meter today and checked my water sources:
tap = 302, filtered = 285, aquarium = 555 µS (I did a 30% water change 5 days ago). Since the value is greater that 385 should I do another water change now? 

This is my second day of fertilizing (using the PPS regimen above). I'm running the CO2 and lights for 7 hours a day (offset by 1 hour, with CO2 coming on 1st)

It seems like the increase has gone up quickly. But, the aquarium water could have had much higher levels before the 30% change so this "fast increase" could be misleading. 

How quickly does the µS normally rise?


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

Hi
What do you mean by filtered?
Let’s say your tap is 285 µS and aquarium is 555 µS. This means that you have 555 – 285 = 270 µS of unknown substances in the water column and you want it out.

30% water change
555 -> 465 ( - 90)
465 -> 405 ( - 60)
405 -> 365 ( - 40)
365 -> 338 ( - 27)
338 -> 320 ( - 18)
320 -> 308 ( - 12)
308 -> 300 ( - 8)

50% water change
555 -> 420 ( - 135)
420 -> 353 ( - 67)
353 -> 319 ( - 34)
319 -> 302 ( - 17)

You can see above how seven 30% or four 50% water changes can clean up the aquarium. 

Some substrates, rocks, decorations and unused fertilizers are increasing conductivity readings. One PPS-Pro daily dose of 1 ppm of NO3 increases TDS reading by about 6 µS. To be more precise you can try “ How do I find daily TDS increase due to PPS-Pro dose? ” section. I would be interested in your result.


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## Willcooper (May 31, 2015)

messfish said:


> I just ordered the PPS-Pro package from Greenleaf Aquarium so I'll start the recommended dosing of macros and micros


The nice thing about buying the pps-pro pack from gla is that you now have everything you need to do EI dosing! ;?)

I had problems getting the right balance of nutrients with pps pro for my tank and that's the beauty of ei is that there is always a slight excess of all nutrients so it eliminates (or close to) the lack of certain nutrients your plants may need. Ei is meant for higher lights and heavy plant load.


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

Willcooper, 
what was holding you back from dosing more fertilizer to have _"always a slight excess of all nutrients so it eliminates (or close to) the lack of certain nutrients your plants may need?"
_


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## messfish (Nov 12, 2015)

Edward said:


> Hi
> Let’s say your tap is 285 µS and aquarium is 555 µS. This means that you have 555 – 285 = 270 µS of unknown substances in the water column and you want it out.
> 
> 30% water change
> ...



I did a 30% water change and the TDS level dropped from 575 to 475. This is only my 5th day of dosing fertilizers and tank looks so much better already!! There is a noticeable lack of algae. Thanks so much for all the advice. I will do another 30% change in the next few days until I get the level back down to 300 (which is my baseline reading)

Bump: Yes, I saw the Green Leaf formula link for EI dosing and I did consider it but since I'm just starting to add fertilizer to my aquarium (and I have mostly low light easy varieties) I decided I should probably start with the more modest approach - PPS-Pro dosing and 1/10th micros and see how it goes. So far so good..


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## Willcooper (May 31, 2015)

Edward said:


> Willcooper,
> what was holding you back from dosing more fertilizer to have _"always a slight excess of all nutrients so it eliminates (or close to) the lack of certain nutrients your plants may need?"
> _


I guess it would have been not testing for nutrient uptake which is what you are supposed to do with pps pro. Ei is a very simple concept of enough of everything in the ratios they should be in and limiting build up with water changes. It was just simpler to go with Ei so you can eliminate nutrient difficiancies as part of what ever problem you may be going through. Don't get me wrong, I started with pps pro because I know it can work when executed properly. I'm just not going to spend the time measuring nutrient uptake to always maintain a slight excess when I can just know there is excess and I can do water changes once a week to make it so it's never a big deal. Getting 3-6" of growth a week and the effects that will have on nutrient requirments and measuring it just seems like such a waste of time. I can see how it would be fine for lower light or lower plant mass situations.


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

Willcooper said:


> I guess it would have been not testing for nutrient uptake which is what you are supposed to do with pps pro. … I'm just not going to spend the time measuring nutrient uptake to always maintain a slight excess when I can just know there is excess and I can do water changes once a week to make it so it's never a big deal. Getting 3-6" of growth a week and the effects that will have on nutrient requirments and measuring it just seems like such a waste of time. I can see how it would be fine for lower light or lower plant mass situations.


 Where are you getting such misinformation from? 

Simple daily dose of two items with 50% weekly water changes supplies nutrient levels of 14 ppm NO3, 1.4 ppm PO4, 18 ppm K, 1.4 ppm Mg and 0.14 ppm Fe(TE). This was working in aquariums with 100 to 200 PAR lights.

If you still feel like not enough then double dose supplies levels of 28 ppm NO3, 2.8 ppm PO4, 36 ppm K, 2.8 ppm Mg and 1.4 ppm Fe(TE).

Test kits dried out long time ago because nobody needed them.


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