# High nitrate and phosphate levels



## rininger85 (Jun 30, 2013)

how long has your tank been set up and what is your cleaning regiment? Personally for my FW I started getting worried if my nitrates were 40-60ppm and that was before I planted it, I would think from what I've read they would stay lower now that I've planted since the plants should use up some nitrate... 

I ask about cleaning regiment because in my experience thats the #1 issue I've had, I like to overfeed and if I didn't siphon good then my nitrates and phosphates go up... to me the #1 way to remove nitrates is to reduce feeding and siphon the substrate good... knowing that most planted tanks don't get the siphoning like I'm used to it will be interesting to see what happens to my tank as it progresses in the next couple months...I'm putting a lot of faith in to what reading I've done and hoping that I really can make my tank low maintenance by planting it so I'm not siphoning the substrate all the time...


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

If your plants are growing, and you have lots of them in the tank, you should never see a buildup of either nitrate or phosphate. It is very possible that your test results are incorrect. You have to carefully follow the directions when doing those tests or your results will be way off. And, if you want to use the results to guide what you do next, you need to first calibrate the test kits, using water solutions with known concentrations of nitrates and phosphates. That lets you see how to interpret the colors, if the test is working right, and how accurate the readings will be.


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## Volksdad (Jun 25, 2013)

Thanks for the replies. My tank has been up for years(at least five or six). I've had living plants in it for about two years with varying levels of success. About two months ago i decided to start getting more responsible with my pets and started reading online about planted tanks and such. 

Most of what I read seems to be conflicting information, but the basics of ph around seven, no nitrites, and 0 ammonia seem to be clear. I get different stuff though about what high phosphate levels and nitrate levels will do. 

I tossed my test strips in the garbage and invested in aquarium pharmaceuticals brand (API) master test kit for freshwater and a phosphate kit. 

I found the nitrites were a little high, and the ph was off (low). I did a bunch of 50% water changes around 6/27/2013 and waited. I added more plants, and they are growing. I tested it today, (3 weeks later) and got the results above.

I added micro sword, Anubis nana, kleiner bar sword, pogostemon erectus, red wendth, dwarf hairgrass- i already had java fern and java moss, and that bright green plant in the front left of my tank... Sorry dont know the name.


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## bbergeron (Feb 13, 2013)

Any chance your tap water is testing high for nitrates/phosphates?


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## Volksdad (Jun 25, 2013)

That's good thinking, but i tested it, before and after i added to the tank - it was zero for both. And just for kicks i just tested it again. Both nitrate and phosphate are zero. 

My ten gallon tank has only java moss in it, and it tests 5 ppm nitrates and 0.5 phosphates. Which is pretty consistent with what it was a month ago. (The tank only has cherry shrimp in it). 

Hoppy im pretty persnickety about my testing procedures. I reread the procedure before each test, and i rewrote it so i was sure i was following directions. I use an iPhone to time my shaking times and developing times. Maybe my kits are off. And maybe im reading one bar, even two bars off.... But all the way to the bottom?

I posted a pic of my tank- lets say the tests were accurate (for the sake of argument). What phosphate level do you think is too high? 40 ppm? And what nitrate level is too high? The same? More? Less? I was kind of hoping people would offer a general guideline or number.


The plants ARE showing new growth, and the fish seem happy. Should I just ignore the numbers and keep rolling wi my 25% water changes monthly?


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

No one, who gets paid to do any form of testing, trusts any test device or test kit unless they calibrate it before using it. It doesn't matter how much the device or kit costs or how good it is, it still gets calibrated before use, often before every use. It is that important to calibrate if you need to rely on the test results for anything.


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## Volksdad (Jun 25, 2013)

Volksdad said:


> What phosphate level do you think is too high? 40 ppm? And what nitrate level is too high? The same? More? Less? I was kind of hoping people would offer a general guideline or number.


I'm not getting paid for this. And I really am not going to spend a good portion of my life doing it either- I'm a father, a husband, and i have a whole other life outside plants in an aquarium. I thought the question was simple enough- "do nitrates and phosphates pose a health threat to fish in an aquarium, and if so at what level?"

If you don't know the answer, no worries.


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## BraveBuc (Nov 8, 2012)

Volksdad said:


> I'm not getting paid for this. And I really am not going to spend a good portion of my life doing it either- I'm a father, a husband, and i have a whole other life outside plants in an aquarium. I thought the question was simple enough- "do nitrates and phosphates pose a health threat to fish in an aquarium, and if so at what level?"
> 
> If you don't know the answer, no worries.


You were asking if you should ignore the numbers because the fish and plants look fine. I read his reply as.... you cant rely on the numbers unless you calibrate your test kit.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


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## KH2PO4 (Jul 18, 2009)

There is no known toxic level for phosphate (means it's not known to be toxic at any level).
So 10 PPM is totally fine for your animals. But it's funny that plants don't use it much. 
I read you don't need more than 1.5 PPM. (I don't dose PO4 even with that username :hihi: ).

Nitrate should not be more than 40 PPM. I personally aim for 10-20 PPM.


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## mr.bigglesworth (Jul 6, 2012)

Yes, your nitrate levels are toxic. You should aim for under 40ppm and do more than monthly water changes, weekly is best.

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## dprais1 (Sep 12, 2012)

I tested my tank water using an uncalibrated API test kit (drops and vial) I read 20-40ppm NitrAte.

Took a sample to the pet store, they tested and thought I set the tank up yesterday, they said I had a tiny amount of ammonia and no nitrAte at all. They used strips.

I used Safe which gives a false positive for toxic ammonia.

I can't imagine my nitrates are actually zero, In fact I'm sure of it

Just saying that depending on you tests you may get some funky results


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## Volksdad (Jun 25, 2013)

Thanks for the information. And now i have my answers- yes i should be concerned and it would pay to calibrate the test kit for nitrate to make sure that they are indeed that high. 

Thank you all very much for weighing in and sharing your experiences. Ill do weekly water changes from now on.


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## tetra73 (Aug 2, 2011)

Volksdad said:


> That's good thinking, but i tested it, before and after i added to the tank - it was zero for both. And just for kicks i just tested it again. Both nitrate and phosphate are zero.
> 
> My ten gallon tank has only java moss in it, and it tests 5 ppm nitrates and 0.5 phosphates. Which is pretty consistent with what it was a month ago. (The tank only has cherry shrimp in it).
> 
> ...



Well, both high nitrates and phosphate levels have to come from somewhere. Any chance using the seachem neutral PH regulator???


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## Volksdad (Jun 25, 2013)

I used prime (by seachem) to regulate The ph. Hydrogen sulfite salts?

I just purchased stress coat by API. I thought maybe this might be better. 

Any thoughts?

I had used maybe 6 months ago someone's ph regulator, but it was a one time thing. Do you think that's it?

Glen


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## Brian_Cali77 (Mar 19, 2010)

Given that your gravel is inert and you have a heavy root feeding plant like that sword, did you by any chance use root tabs at least? Especially Osmocote Plus Tabs? I've been getting the same elevated phosphates and nitrates by using them. I did see in your original post you said no ferts currently, but you are fairly heavily planted to not be dosing anything, so it made me wonder about tabs.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Volksdad said:


> I'm not getting paid for this. And I really am not going to spend a good portion of my life doing it either- I'm a father, a husband, and i have a whole other life outside plants in an aquarium. I thought the question was simple enough- "do nitrates and phosphates pose a health threat to fish in an aquarium, and if so at what level?"
> 
> If you don't know the answer, no worries.


Upper ranges perhaps might be 150-250 ppm for NO3, maybe 1000 ppm for PO4, basically you start heading into salinity stress for PO4, K+ etc, NO3 might be a bit lower. Warm water fish are very tolerant in general of NO3.

Do a few routines; like a water change, say 50% weekly, takes about 10-15 minutes. then dose after, your tap seems fine, so this is an easy way to maintain a good range of both nutrients.

Do not use pH regulator.


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## KH2PO4 (Jul 18, 2009)

Volksdad said:


> I used prime (by seachem) to regulate The ph. Hydrogen sulfite salts?
> 
> I just purchased stress coat by API. I thought maybe this might be better.
> 
> ...


Prime and Stress Coat neutralize chlorine and chloramine.
They are not pH regulator and have nothing to do with your 
NO3 and PO4 levels.


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## Volksdad (Jun 25, 2013)

Thanks for the advice Tom, I will do a %50 water change weekly from now on. You mentioned dosing, is there a post that i can read up on this? I don't use any fertilizers or additives. 

I did some searching and found LOTS of different methodology, and chemistry. Perhaps someone might point me to a post with general information on it so I might start reading and doing my homework.


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## BraveBuc (Nov 8, 2012)

Look for the sticky called ei light on tom's forum.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


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## Volksdad (Jun 25, 2013)

Thanks Buc, I will.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Volksdad said:


> Thanks for the advice Tom, I will do a %50 water change weekly from now on. You mentioned dosing, is there a post that i can read up on this? I don't use any fertilizers or additives.
> 
> I did some searching and found LOTS of different methodology, and chemistry. Perhaps someone might point me to a post with general information on it so I might start reading and doing my homework.


I was initially intimidated when I first saw dosing fert stuff myself.
Too much chem and egg head discussions. The future was ironic to say the least. 

So I avoided it for awhile.

Now I know enough, I really do not pay much attention, mainly because I know I do not have to.

You can be way off and not have much issue.
N and P are fine at higher levels, but sounds like the traces, K+, GH and perhaps CO2 need some work.

Good general care for aquariums; this trumps any dosing method.
Next would be good light, moderate etc, and decent current and then CO2.
About the last thing, even though important, is nutrients. Mostly you just do not want to run out, but you also do not want to have to keep some tight tolerance range or test. Since we really should trim often anyways, and check the tank weekly, not a bad idea to do a decent size water change after the trim and cleaning.

Never hurts and you can use it to manage ferts very easily then.

This way you spend more time hanging with the family, and gardening the tank, instead of playing with test kits. While some enjoy such testing, I've yet to meet a single hobbyist who got int planted tanks for the joy of testing NO3 and PO4. 

Their goal was simple: to have a nice aquatic garden.
Most everyone had this goal, then forgot about it later.

Water change + dosing 2-3x a week thereafter= easy way to ensure plenty of ferts for the plants, thus you can focus mostly on CO2/current/light.
Cheap also, dry ferts for say a 100 Gal tank might run 10$ a year, maybe less.


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## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

plantbrain said:


> Next would be good light, moderate etc,


Tom, what do you consider moderate light as far as PAR levels are concerned?


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Jeff5614 said:


> Tom, what do you consider moderate light as far as PAR levels are concerned?


Anything over 30, but under about 50-60 along the bottom of the tank's sediment.


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## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

plantbrain said:


> Anything over 30, but under about 50-60 along the bottom of the tank's sediment.


Thanks.


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## BraveBuc (Nov 8, 2012)

Volksdad said:


> Thanks Buc, I will.


Cool!

If you get stuff you need for EI, It would be easy to test your nitrate test kit.

You just mix in a little KNO3 into a bucket or something with tap water(or ro/di water if you have it) and then test it. You will know how much nitrate is in there, so you can compare with what the test kit says.

For example, 1/16th of a tsp of KNO3 in a 5gal bucket will give you slightly over 10ppm nitrate. You can use this calculator to figure out how much KNO3 per your container and target. http://calc.petalphile.com/

I recently had the same issue as you, my API test kit was giving me a reading of 80ppm+ nitrate. I mixed in 20ppm worth of KNO3 with my gram scale into a 5 gal bucket and tested that water. The result was still 80ppm+. So, I need a new test kit... though I may not bother...


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