# ADA 90-P faulty. Or...?



## mot (Sep 17, 2011)

Mine is aligned perfectly. I would expect nothing less from an ADA tank.


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## ETK (Jan 25, 2013)

Seems like that is past acceptable limits. However, in order to judge whether its the cabinet or the tank, you may want to measure the diagonal dimensions of the tank. That will tell you whether it is skewed or not.


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## Ach1Ll3sH33L (Mar 1, 2012)

my guess is its the cabinet that's not straight, but a tape measure will answer your question.


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## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

Ach1Ll3sH33L said:


> my guess is its the cabinet that's not straight, but a tape measure will answer your question.


I was going to ask if you know for sure that your stand is square also. If the tank is off I'd be contacting ADG or AFA, assuming you purchased it from one of them.


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## concepts88 (Oct 4, 2012)

If you turn the tank counter clockwise. This will balance the left side also. I would say it is your stand which is crooked or bowed in the front.


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## Matsnork (Jun 3, 2013)

Thanks for the input. I forgot to mention that I of course measured the tank, both diagonally and with a 90-degree ruler (dont know the english word for it).

The tank was really hard to get hold of since there are very few retailers in the Nordic countries and starting up a warranty process with a 40kg item is kind of a bummer... but I will give it a try.


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## concepts88 (Oct 4, 2012)

It's call a t-square


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## Matsnork (Jun 3, 2013)

Yes but no. Apparently I used an L square. Thank you google 

In another thread on this forum regarding what techniques the ADA factory use to produce their famous silicone joints, I suggested that a jig might be used. Well now we can rule that out. And apparently an L square was not used either... A little bit bitter perhaps.


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## brohawk (May 19, 2008)

I don't blame your bitterness one bit. Best of luck getting a replacement, hopefully w/ little hassle.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

Not the best example of 'Precision crafted' I'm sure they'll do the right thing - good luck.


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

I personally would not be happy at all.

I am not sure how it works in Europe, but if you do not get an acceptable resolution from the seller I would contact the credit card issuer, if you paid by a CC.

via Droid DNA Tapatalk 2


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## Matsnork (Jun 3, 2013)

I bought the tank through a small dealer who mostly deals with the smaller ada stuff, like glassware, soil etc. They´ve got connections with the German ada stockist and had an arrend down there, so I saw my chance to get hold of an ada aquarium without paying silly freight costs. 

Potential scenarios: 

#1 They ignore me, or think my claim is silly. 

#2 I can get some sort of compensation/retro price reduction but keep the tank. 
(I could live with this, the tank is not ruined. A few steps back and it´s not very noticeable)

#3 They replace the item and pay for shipping. 
(Not very likely but you never know the service level of folks when they have a few hundred miles and a few boarders to hide behind.)


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

concepts88 said:


> It's call a t-square


George Costanza !!!!!

How new is the tank? I notice some really bad craftsmanship with my 60-P. The seams are not completely straight or there is excess. No idea what the proper term is called but it's the glue that you can touch on the outside. I run my fingers down and feel it. My Fluval Edge 1st generation did not have this, the 2nd gen 12gallons has this. 

The older ADA sticker tanks are perfect, everything is completely flush. My newer sticker ADA tank is not something you would expect for the amount of money.


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## Matsnork (Jun 3, 2013)

Are you refering to silicone perhaps? 

The tank is brand spanking new. Just found out about this when placing it on a stand for the first time.

My 60-P looks good and fits perfectly on my DIY cabinet.


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

Yeah, the silicone on the outside. It's not flush, I can feel the extra pieces. Tempted to scratch it off but I don't want to risk anything. It hold water fine and that pretty much what a tank suppose to do. 

Is ADA the best tank maker? I'm certainly not impressed.


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## Matsnork (Jun 3, 2013)

When I checked pricing with a local glass fabricator who has got the big diamond sanding and cutting machines required to bewel the panes like the ADA does it, the price ended right up there with ADA on a 120-H copy. And then the silicone joints would not look as good. But the sides would probobly be level at least


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

^ Hahaha, at least you notice the sides before you got started. Imagine having a display tank, getting a high placing at IAPC and then realizing you got a faulty tank. 

Let all be honest here, we brought the tank for the ADA sticker at the corner. I know I did.


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## Matsnork (Jun 3, 2013)

Mneeeooohhh for me not really. I bought an ada tank because of the hardware nerdism macro pictures some guy/gal took for his/her review of a 120-P. It made me drool and throw my wallet at the computer screen.


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## Wwh2694 (Dec 14, 2010)

ADA tanks are all hand made and checked to perfection. Are u sure that's not a replica? I have an old 120H with stand and they are perfect. Plus I have a 60H tank with stand and they are perfect too.


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

His 90-P is really off, judging from the picture it's well beyond a small detail. How does ADA quality control miss something that obvious. Matsnork, can you take a picture of the sticker? 

Did your tank come with those plastic strips that goes from the bottom to the top? I remember having to use a heavy duty scissor to cut those. I had to buy mine from a official distributor as they were the only one who carried it here.


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## Matsnork (Jun 3, 2013)

Wwh2694 said:


> ADA tanks are all hand made and checked to perfection. Are u sure that's not a replica? I have an old 120H with stand and they are perfect. Plus I have a 60H tank with stand and they are perfect too.


How close in dimensions are the stand and tank? Are they flush on all sides?
I got 5mm to spare since my cabinet has some leg room for this type of thing.


It´s not a replica. Bought from a German ADA distributor.
About 1,5-2mm half way across the pane. Same on the other side.


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## Matsnork (Jun 3, 2013)

FlyingHellFish said:


> Matsnork, can you take a picture of the sticker?
> 
> Did your tank come with those plastic strips that goes from the bottom to the top?


Yes and yes:

60P









90P


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## blink (Feb 22, 2012)

I would not be satisfied if my new ADA tank was that far out of square but I put ADA to pretty high standards because of their much higher cost.

My wife's Mr.Aqua 12 long was not quite perfectly square (and has since developed a leak) but it was also half the price of the ADA 12 long at the retailer we were dealing with, for half the price I can deal with a little crookedness.


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

blink said:


> ...it was also half the price of the ADA 12 long at the retailer we were dealing with... crookedness.


Sorry to derail, but I did not know that ADA has a 12 long tank ?

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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

ADA doesn't have a 12gal long, unfortunately.

Matsnork: You should definitely try getting the tank replaced. The tank appears to be poorly crafted and the silicone work is atrocious for an ADA-branded tank. 

I recently had to have an ADA 45-F replaced three times because of poor silicone jobs and scratched glass. Was a real hassle but you should not be settling for anything less than perfect when paying a premium price.


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## Ach1Ll3sH33L (Mar 1, 2012)

that's strange.. for it to be like that the bottom pane of glass must just not be squared. I would try emailing ada directly with pictures, and c.c the email to the distributor you bought it from, this should get ada's attention.. if no more than letting your distributor know you've made ada aware of the situation. 

You might have better luck posting this on ukaps.org and asking for advice, there are a lot of people involved on that forum and closer to you that may help getting you in touch with the right people to get it swapped in Europe.


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

Do you have two tanks? The first picture has glosso and the second is empty. I have also have the sloppy silicone like your second picture, it's most noticeable at the corner in that picture. The silicone looks like it stops just like yours. 

How do you measure the 90 degree corner without a T square? I haven't measure mine.


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## Matsnork (Jun 3, 2013)

FlyingHellFish said:


> Do you have two tanks? The first picture has glosso and the second is empty. I have also have the sloppy silicone like your second picture, it's most noticeable at the corner in that picture. The silicone looks like it stops just like yours.
> 
> How do you measure the 90 degree corner without a T square? I haven't measure mine.


Yes, a 60p and a 90p. The silicone joints are much bigger on bigger tanks. Thats why the 60p looks much cleaner. If glued directly together like an acrylic tank they would break.

You can measure the tank diagonally with a tape measure. Then compare the results. If the panes tilt outwards and you measure up top i guess its a bit pointless though.

Edit:

I want this tool


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

What was your result when you measure it diagonally? How off was it? 

If you got time, can you take some photos of the 90-P's sticker. Are those air bubbles in the sticker? There seem to be some air trapped under it, while the 60-P is all clear.


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## Green_Flash (Apr 15, 2012)

FlyingHellFish said:


> George Costanza !!!!!
> 
> How new is the tank? I notice some really bad craftsmanship with my 60-P. The seams are not completely straight or there is excess. No idea what the proper term is called but it's the glue that you can touch on the outside. I run my fingers down and feel it. My Fluval Edge 1st generation did not have this, the 2nd gen 12gallons has this.
> 
> The older ADA sticker tanks are perfect, everything is completely flush. My newer sticker ADA tank is not something you would expect for the amount of money.


I had the same problem with my 60-P, the back pane was not flush with the others as regards silicon connection, i.e when you feel it it isn't smooth. 
I emailed AFA about the problem but they told me they were not going to give me a replacement, full refund or even a partial store credit. Their reason was and I quote:
"As for the fish tank, ADA aquariums goes through strict quality control, all the ADA tanks we sell passed the strict quality control for quality assurance. There is a small allowance for the panels, therefore, even if it is not perfectly flush, it will not interfere with the strength and safty of the fish tank. We are afraid we are unable to provide you credit for the fish tank. " 

Um yeah. :icon_conf

I guess all the problems began when they switched tank manufacturing from Germany to China. :icon_neut The claims of better LIG are actually false, true they are clearer than the old ADA German regular glass, but NOT clearer than the old ADA German LIG tanks, I have seen plenty of examples and to compare it would be like looking at Do!Aqua = current ADA vs old ADA glass. 

My guess for why they switched manufacturing locations ,easy, to lower labor and material cost and increase profit margin with zero benefit to the consumer.  Funny when the yen was at all time highs the price for ADA products increased here, now the yen has fallen alot since where is our price decrease? :icon_cool

So who makes the best tanks then? I would say ELOS, but I don't really like the black silicone, custom tank makers? Depends on who they are and where you live. ADA is still the best choice regarding availability and price but not perfect in some cases.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Maybe some others who actually own ADA tanks can chime in but that just doesn't look right at all. It's not just the fact it isn't square, the silicone does not look right either. Maybe ADA has loosened up their quality control as they have become more popular but that seems like a straight knock off. 

Does your supplier order directly from ADA? I am just wondering if people have possibly started counterfeiting these tanks or something. I just haven't seen an ADA tank that looks like that ever. Again, I don't own one myself.


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## Matsnork (Jun 3, 2013)

Will not comment on all of the latest post since Im at work (pocket computer) so just a small update.

Got a reply from the retailer. They apologize for the inconvenience and will take it up with the German ADA supplier.

Im very sure my tanks are not fake/copys etc. The finish on the panes is superb. The silicone... not as nice as I've seen on close ups on the interwebz.


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## blink (Feb 22, 2012)

OVT said:


> Sorry to derail, but I did not know that ADA has a 12 long tank ?
> 
> via Droid DNA Tapatalk 2


Hmm, I thought they did, I must have been thinking of a different size then.


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

Matsnork said:


> Got a reply from the retailer. They apologize for the inconvenience and will take it up with the German ADA supplier.


Good.

Threads like this make me think twice why would I pay a premium price for a Chinese made tanks. I have ADA's tanks and they are indeed nice. But then I also have 2 Mr Aqua tanks and they are not bad other. I am looking for another tank and paying extra $150 for a 30g tank with a nicer label is making less an less sense.

2 years ago the quality was better and other brands were far behind. Nowdays rimless tanks are no longer a novelty: Marinland, Penn Plax, Current-USA, Mr Aqua, TopAqua, Deep Blue, ELIOS, and their brothers are on the bandwagon, with wider choices of footprints, glass clarity, silicon work, etc etc.

Point being: ADA - I might pay a premium price BUT the service, availability, and the perceived value are better be there.


via Droid DNA Tapatalk 2


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## Matsnork (Jun 3, 2013)

FlyingHellFish said:


> What was your result when you measure it diagonally? How off was it?


Approx 104mm vs 107mm. But thats taken upside via the rim. I havent measured the bottom since the tank is so darn heavy. Need a friend to come over. I really don´t care about a few millimeters here and there as long as it doesnt affect the "squareness"/strength or is otherwise visually obvious.



FlyingHellFish said:


> If you got time, can you take some photos of the 90-P's sticker. Are those air bubbles in the sticker? There seem to be some air trapped under it, while the 60-P is all clear.


They are both bubbly, just doesnt show on the 60-P with the soil background.



Green_Flash said:


> I emailed AFA about the problem but they told me they were not going to give me a replacement, full refund or even a partial store credit. Their reason was and I quote:
> "As for the fish tank, ADA aquariums goes through strict quality control, all the ADA tanks we sell passed the strict quality control for quality assurance. There is a small allowance for the panels, therefore, even if it is not perfectly flush, it will not interfere with the strength and safty of the fish tank. We are afraid we are unable to provide you credit for the fish tank." .


Thats sound beyond stupid. Catch 22 much? If they have such superb quality control, why is your tank faulty? Their whole statement contradicts itself. :icon_conf Total bummer.

Sounds more like: -Helping you out is to much of a hustle so we´re gonna bull**** you instead so that the problem goes away.- 



talontsiawd said:


> Does your supplier order directly from ADA? I am just wondering if people have possibly started counterfeiting these tanks or something.


No idea where ADA Germany gets their stuff from. Pretty shure it´s legit. Everything from packaging labeling to glass hooks information leeflets looks genuine and as I´ve seen on the interwebzzzz.


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## Matsnork (Jun 3, 2013)

So pictures seem high on demand in this thread so I tried to take some closeups on the seams with my camera (phone). Glass is not the best subject in morning gloom light. 


This evaded me before; a silicone smudge. Lack of masking tape? 









Here (the 3 pics below) you can the weird variations in silicone thickness. 









Upper part right front seam.









Lower part right front seam.









Rest looks OK as far as I can tell. A little smudgy at places, but nothing really noticable when filled up with soil and water and perhaps with some algea. 



























I must say, that apart from the glass panes being beweled, this type of quality silicone/seam work could be done by a local aquarium builder or even a handy hobbyist with some patience and some masking tape. 

I´ve got two links for ya: 

Older ADA build quality fyi and what I was expecting:
http://www.projectaquarium.com/plantedAquariumReviews_ADACubeGarden.aspx

How to build a (small at least) clean rimless aquarium:


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

Here is mine, it's super bubbly just like yours. I found it a bit odd but didn't say anything. 










Also, what is this? Is it missing some silicone? I have this but it's very small and not as much as yours. 










So unless, ADA's manufacturer has a bad batch of tanks, I'm not sure what we could do. I haven't even measure the 90' degree angle of my tank. I need those T-square, a wooden ruler doesn't measure the length very well.


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## Matsnork (Jun 3, 2013)

That bubble thing looks worse in the picture than irl. Not shure what it is really. I think it is an imperfection reflecting up through the bewel making it seem bigger.

Edit: But look att the angle the front pane is glued. The difference in seam thickness is quite noticeable. Got to be at least 2mm.


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## trackhazard (Aug 24, 2006)

Matsnork,

I've owned a bunch of the ADA tanks in the past back when they had the old sticker. The silicone work on them was meticulous to say the least. Your pictures look nothing like what I am used to from ADA and if I received an ADA tank like that, I think I would be upset. I hope you get everything resolved to your satisfaction.

I don't know what the aquarium industry is like in your area of the world but I know locally for me, I can get tanks of ADA quality from local builders. You may want to ask around and see what you can find.

-Charlie


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

Does ADA have an English contact? I want to ask them their opinion on this. Does anyone else have *bubble* in their ADA stickers on new tanks? It's kind of bugging me now. I haven't even shown you guys the silicone job on my tank, it's not what someone would call great. My Fluval has better a better silicone job than my 60-P.


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## acitydweller (Dec 28, 2011)

percieved quality and service really. to be honest, these large tanks are generally special order items and not something readily stocked at any retail outlet. if you had a problem or issue with these in North america, dont expect them to send a replacement tank or offer a refund. you'll likely be told that the warranty is void because its not on an ada stand... which is what happened to one of our local members. 

The small ada tanks may be passable in quality but for larger tanks, i certainly would raise the bar on scrutiny since you want to know what you are getting for your near $1000 usd purchase...


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

acitydweller said:


> percieved quality and service really. to be honest, these large tanks are generally special order items and not something readily stocked at any retail outlet. i*f you had a problem or issue with these in North america, dont expect them to send a replacement tank or offer a refund. you'll likely be told that the warranty is void because its not on an ada stand..*. which is what happened to one of our local members.
> 
> The small ada tanks may be passable in quality but for larger tanks, i certainly would raise the bar on scrutiny since you want to know what you are getting for your near $1000 usd purchase...


Why would poor workmanship be affected by what stand you use? If the tank cracks, yes, but it's pretty obvious the workmanship is bad. The stand didn't cause the tank to have crappy workmanship.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

It wouldn't, houseofcards. That just tends to be a condition for warranty. It was with ADG at one point, I believe. 

Fortunately, there are lots of other OEM resellers entering the market to complete when it comes to smaller tanks.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

somewhatshocked if that is true it would be ridiculous and I doubt would hold up. Imagine sending pics of shoddy craftsman and the ADA (or whoever's) response is "well what kind of stand is it on" If it's a crack then I would totally understand.


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## creekbottom (Apr 5, 2012)

It doesn't have to make sense to a customer, just the company trying to get out of paying for their mistake.


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## Matsnork (Jun 3, 2013)

If it comes to involving ADA, maybe pictures without the non ADA stand would be a good idea, even if its not in used condition.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

Matsnork said:


> If it comes to involving ADA, maybe pictures without the non ADA stand would be a good idea, even if its not in used condition.


Personally I think your fine either way. A stand is not a factor in workmanship. I don't know the exact language they use in the warranty but it would be too ridiculous.


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

Man I was going to say the same thing when I first open this thread. Forget the angel of the tank... That silicon job is far below standard for an ADA tank.


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

Matsnork, looking at that silicone job that slowly disappear down the line is an eye sore. Mine doesn't even have that, I don't think even a normal tank has that. 

I sent a quick email to ADA's english department, the sticker bubble is formed by "external factor" is *according to them* completely normal. I'm thinking the worldwide shipping and storage caused this effect, we both live pretty far away from them. 

Try sending them the pictures of the silicone and misshapen sides, I'm certain ADA will send someone to Mr.Amano's office right away. Like an HC Cuba uproot problem appearing in their display tank, they won't let it slide!


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## hedge_fund (Jan 1, 2006)

I hope ADA sees this thread and how badly they are starting to slack.


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## CPDzeke (Jan 4, 2013)

Let's start a revolution and boycott for the old ADA back.


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

Any updates OP? Anyone have older pictures of their ADA tanks so we can compare? :S


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## Matsnork (Jun 3, 2013)

If I hear something you' ll know. 
Waiting on ADA Germany to start up again after their holiday brake.


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## freph (Apr 4, 2011)

hedge_fund said:


> I hope ADA sees this thread and how badly they are starting to slack.


This. I received a 60P from ADG today. Silicone work on the corners was lazily trimmed and I need to cut a few pieces. What happened to the top-of-the-line goodness that ADA used to be known for with their tanks? I have a Mini M that's flawless and even my AquaTop cube had less crud in the corners than my 60P does. :icon_ques:thumbsdow


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## Riverboa (Mar 18, 2009)

Freph, sorry to hear that and this is very discouraging. Can you share any pictures?


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## freph (Apr 4, 2011)

Riverboa said:


> Freph, sorry to hear that and this is very discouraging. Can you share any pictures?


I already trimmed it to remove the excess. Basically just slivers of silicone creeping up from the corners. Nothing that couldn't be fixed, but still...to pay for an item from a company that's supposed to be known for the quality and having nothing interfere with the aquascape, I find it a bit annoying to have to trim silicone work myself that should be nearly flawless from the factory.


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## wheatiesl337 (Mar 30, 2011)

I recently ordered my first ADA tank (60-p), and I too, was not as impressed as I hoped to be with the quality of work. The clarity is great and at least the corners are square (I have seen reports on issues with that too lately on ADA tanks). But the silicone work on the corners was far below the quality I expected. 

The silicone work on the corners really seemed to be no better than some of the cheaper ADA knock-offs available now.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

freph said:


> This. I received a 60P from ADG today. Silicone work on the corners was lazily trimmed and I need to cut a few pieces. What happened to the top-of-the-line goodness that ADA used to be known for with their tanks? I have a Mini M that's flawless and even my AquaTop cube had less crud in the corners than my 60P does. :icon_ques:thumbsdow


That's not a good thing to hear. I have found more than a few people who say Aquatop is on par with ADA and have always thought it was an overstatement as I used to go to AFA on a very regular basis and my LFS carries Aquatop. I guess I may have been off base with my comments if ADA's quality control is slipping because the ADA tank I see over the years are not what some people have been describing. I would expect nothing but a flawless tank from ADA because that is all I have seen from them over the last 5 years or so of going to AFA and a few local hobbyist's homes.


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

Where is Frank???


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## mott (Nov 23, 2006)

Are the newer ADA tanks Chinese made now? I remember reading that somewhere.


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## Green_Flash (Apr 15, 2012)

sayurasem said:


> Where is Frank???


He doesn't work at ADG/ADA USA anymore. 



mott said:


> Are the newer ADA tanks Chinese made now? I remember reading that somewhere.


Yes, they are.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

sayurasem said:


> Where is Frank???


He has moved on from ADG/ADA. He did say he would answer any ADA related questions (I believe) but doesn't work for anything related to this anymore.


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## hedge_fund (Jan 1, 2006)

Wow, so ADA tanks are made in China now? I need to at least look at other brands in the USA before I commit to ADA again.....does anybody know of any other US companies that build tanks?


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## freph (Apr 4, 2011)

hedge_fund said:


> Wow, so ADA tanks are made in China now? I need to at least look at other brands in the USA before I commit to ADA again.....does anybody know of any other US companies that build tanks?


Might wanna get up with Tom. Lemar comes to mind.


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## hedge_fund (Jan 1, 2006)

freph said:


> Might wanna get up with Tom. Lemar comes to mind.


Nice, thanks.

I just found one in NJ as well.
http://coasttocoastaquariums.com/services.php

Sorry to hijack the thread but if the quality of the ADA tanks is dropping this fast it's time to at least take a look at other companies.


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

Google Le Mar: some interesting reviews from reefers.

via Droid DNA Tapatalk 2


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

Wait, what? Frank is gone from the hobby? What he doing now?


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

You could get burnt out as just a hobbyist would be even easier to get burnt out doing it professionally. Or could be just a better oppty came along


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Green_Flash (Apr 15, 2012)

hedge_fund said:


> Nice, thanks.
> 
> I just found one in NJ as well.
> http://coasttocoastaquariums.com/services.php
> ...


The next best mass produced would probably be ELOS imho. They still have their tanks handmade in Italy using a proprietary adhesive blend. They also have double pane glass bottom for seismic activity on the larger tanks. The purist tanks are a littler cheaper than the overflow models. They come in some unique sizes. If I recall the 120 95g is $1600 or $1700 (plus shipping). They do come stock with black silicone. They might do clear silicon for a custom job but I don't know 100% about that. They recently switched their USA distributor to:
http://www.coralvue.com/brands/elos.html?cat=171
They haven't added all tank sizes yet.


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## Matsnork (Jun 3, 2013)

The expensive part of ordering a custom "ADA" jar from a local glass fabricator is the beveled edges I think. The beveling requires lots of work and a BIG sanding machines. Thick low iron glass + beveling + extra delicate and time consuming silicone work = expensive. At least it is here in Sweden.

On topic:

ADA Germany is apperantly back from vacation and my mail will go them through my local ADA dealer. Now I just hope they and ADA Japan can read english good enough, added lots of pictures just in case. :/


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

Have you guys heard the news? ADA will not be affiliated with ADG anymore... Rumor said it has something to do because Frank left.
http://www.adana.co.jp/en/sc/news/detail/1509


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

That's very interesting. Something to do with marketing.


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## tropicalmackdaddy (Mar 7, 2012)

better snatch up those ADA products!


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## Emerica88 (Oct 16, 2009)

tropicalmackdaddy said:


> better snatch up those ADA products!


 Someone else will setup and take ADG's place as an ADA distributor.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Emerica88 said:


> Someone else will setup and take ADG's place as an ADA distributor.


As far as I know, AFA was the first ADA distributor in the US. They don't have much of an online presences as ADG but are great to work with. I have never ordered online, just bought things at their shop. Great people to work with. 

Sad to hear an ADA distributor go though, I am lucky enough to have a semi local one but the more, the better.


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## CPDzeke (Jan 4, 2013)

ADI. *laughs evilly and maniacally*
Seriously though. I know things that you do not.


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## Green_Flash (Apr 15, 2012)

ADI will be the next ADA USA distributor?


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

I've always considered ADA to be the Apple Computer of the aquarium hobby. They started the nature aquarium with their minimum equipment approach and it captured and inspired many in the hobby, but like Apple, competitors have moved in and have produced some of the same product for less money and less hassle. Let's face it in the U.S. most of the products consumed are aquasoil and the medium to small tanks. So I'm not surprised there are issues with the marketing approach. Unlike Apple that doesn't have Steve Jobs anymore, ADA still has Amano so I'm fairly confident there is more good stuff to come.


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## volatile (Feb 13, 2007)

sayurasem said:


> Have you guys heard the news? ADA will not be affiliated with ADG anymore... Rumor said it has something to do because Frank left.
> http://www.adana.co.jp/en/sc/news/detail/1509





houseofcards said:


> That's very interesting. Something to do with marketing.


I have been looking forward to ADG's retail store for like the past 2 years or more since it was announced. I wonder how this will change their store since they are no longer a distributor.

I'm curious how Frank leaving would cause ADA to terminate their agreement with ADG, someone who they've done business with for so long. Aqua Forest Aquarium (Archaea International) doesn't have a marketing guy and they still kept their contract.

Hopefully AFA won't raise their prices on ADA stuff as they no longer have any competition.


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## maxwellag (Mar 30, 2012)

volatile said:


> Hopefully AFA won't raise their prices on ADA stuff as they no longer have any competition.


I'm not sure what you mean by this. They DO have competition and have had it for quite some time. Mr. Aqua, GLA, Aquatop and some others have started selling high quality rimless tanks at similar prices. I wouldn't consider that "no competition". People are starting to realize that ADA isn't the only option for high quality products.


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## sevenportsOFFICE (Aug 5, 2013)

maxwellag said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by this. They DO have competition and have had it for quite some time. Mr. Aqua, GLA, Aquatop and some others have started selling high quality rimless tanks at similar prices. I wouldn't consider that "no competition". People are starting to realize that ADA isn't the only option for high quality products.


<3 this guy ^ 

haha


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

volatile said:


> I'm curious how Frank leaving would cause ADA to terminate their agreement with ADG, someone who they've done business with for so long. Aqua Forest Aquarium (Archaea International) doesn't have a marketing guy and they still kept their contract.


Didn't Jeff say there was some kind of internal conflict that was none of their (ADA) business. 

Anyways, OP, do you have any updates?


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## Matsnork (Jun 3, 2013)

OT:

The Germans have finally given me some information. The Japanese have not replied to me nor the German distributor. Bad form imho. 

The German distributor feel they want to help me out, but the shipping costs and the risks involved are pretty high so they prefer to compensate me instead of sending a new tank. They mention discount on other ADA items. Not sure cash refund is up on the table. 

What do you guys n gals think is adequate compensation to make _you_ feel comfortable keeping and using this crooked aquarium? 
What would it be the sale % off if sold as a defective item in a shop? -30%? -50%?

After a while I guess one would stop thinking about the hardware estetics and only concentrate on the inards of the tank as one should.


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## mott (Nov 23, 2006)

Matsnork said:


> OT:
> 
> The Germans have finally given me some information. The Japanese have not replied to me nor the German distributor. Bad form imho.
> 
> ...


50% off a Superjet!!!


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## Matsnork (Jun 3, 2013)

Well yeah, had similar thoughts but found a super jet copy thats already half the price. Plus I have already purchased a filter for this project.

Maybe an aquasky 602 for my 60P? Not shure how good they are though. They are seriously overpriced. No dimming etc.


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## Nightspell (May 22, 2013)

I, too, hope ADA catches on that people are taking notice of inferior quality control. This thread has just talked me out of their tanks. As has been said, I won't pay premium price for anything less than premium quality. I have no sympathy for companies that outsource anything to China. I'll be shopping their competition for my next tank...


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Matsnork said:


> What do you guys n gals think is adequate compensation to make you feel comfortable keeping and using this crooked aquarium?
> What would it be the sale % off if sold as a defective item in a shop? -30%? -50%?
> 
> After a while I guess one would stop thinking about the hardware estetics and only concentrate on the inards of the tank as one should.



I would say 100%. My reasoning for that is if I personally got that tank, I would only be satisfied until I got a new one. I would be perfectly willing to ship back the old one at their cost or smash it and send them a picture of it. I would not want a liability on my hands.

If you feel comfortable using it, I would subtract the cost of a rimmed 40 breeder or 50 gallon tank as it is basically the same size. Maybe just the cost of glass to make one because lets face it, most people could build a tank of similar quality without having any experience doing so. 


My mentality with things like this is either they are of an acceptable quality or they are faulty/misconstructed. Lets face it, this tank should have never left the factory and you shouldn't have to say "it's 50% of the quality I expected so I want 50% back". That's no OK in my opinion unless you would actually walk into the store an buy it for 50% off after you saw the condition. Most people who buy ADA tanks would not go for the 50% off faulty tank as they wouldn't buy ADA in the first place.


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## Matsnork (Jun 3, 2013)

talontsiawd;

Thanks for your insight. I agree with you but I´m not too keen on shipping the tank to Germany. Can´t even move the tank by myself, so it´s kind of a bog ordeal for me. 

Very strange that ADA does not answer on the customer support mail adress.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Matsnork said:


> talontsiawd;
> 
> Thanks for your insight. I agree with you but I´m not too keen on shipping the tank to Germany. Can´t even move the tank by myself, so it´s kind of a bog ordeal for me.
> 
> Very strange that ADA does not answer on the customer support mail adress.


Can the distributor or whoever is willing to compensate you back on the tank contact ADA? In the US, it seems that the 2 major distributors over the years (only one now) deal directly with ADA on their ordering. I am not sure on retailers if you are not working with an ADA distributor but it's worth a try. They may be able to help you get in contact with ADA and skip the whole compensation idea.


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## Ach1Ll3sH33L (Mar 1, 2012)

I would post this to a few more forums to get the word out about your problem, then send another e-mail to ada linking to each thread. If they care about maintaining their high end brand, and the amount of negative feedback this generates, they might be more inclined to help out. 
This is sort of a last attempt, if this doesnt get you anywhere i would look in your area and see if anybody manufacturers aquariums, or has experience and get an estimate to get the tank re-sealed and set square. Your german supplier might even foot the bill to have this done.


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## Matsnork (Jun 3, 2013)

double post


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## Matsnork (Jun 3, 2013)

Again, thanks for the input. 



talontsiawd said:


> Can the distributor or whoever is willing to compensate you back on the tank contact ADA?


I´ve been told they have not heard back from ADA. And I have sent two emails to no avail. Maybe google translate my email to japanese and try again... :/



Ach1Ll3sH33L said:


> get an estimate to get the tank re-sealed and set square.


When I did my research before buying ADA I was totally set on a locally built custom 120-P replica thinking that it was a good way to keep costs down, but it turned out just as expensive or even more so. 
This re-sealing you speak of sounds interesting though. Maybe I could even do it myself. But really, as long as the integrity of the tank isnt at risk in its current state it wouldnt be worth the labor involved. It all depends on how things go with ze germanz.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Matsnork said:


> Again, thanks for the input.
> 
> 
> I´ve been told they have not heard back from ADA. And I have sent two emails to no avail. Maybe google translate my email to japanese and try again... :/


I don't know how this works in Europe but can you file a complaint with any government entity? I know it would be complicated as you are in Sweden, the distributor is in Germany, and the company is in Japan.


I look at this like automotive repair parts, it is either a working part or it is not. To me, this is something I would take back as it had "fitment issues". I don't know if that is the best analogy but that is how I feel (I am honestly kind of angry as I do like ADA stuff).

That said, I may go to AFA tomorrow (US distributor). If the owner is there, I will make him aware of this thread (pretty nice guy). Not sure he can do anything but I am just saying.


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## Matsnork (Jun 3, 2013)

I doubt one could file an "international complaint", but if possible I don´t think it would make much difference for a private consumer. It´s hard enough as it is sometimes when companies are clueless, and Sweden has got pretty tough trading laws. For example we have a standard 3 year warranty. 

The distributor seems willing to keep me happy so lets not get carried away with international vendettas, not yet at least. 

Edit2:

According to the Swedish consumer trading laws/guidelines it´s the end trader (lfs) that has to resolve any problems. So basically the responsibility lays with the lfs and they would have to pay up if the distributor backs out. 

edit: 

Oh, and when you visit this AFA guy/store, would you mind having a look at any 90+size display tanks they might have to check the craftmanship?

Sorry for all the edits. Its 03:30 here now so I´m not very focused :O


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Matsnork said:


> Oh, and when you visit this AFA guy/store, would you mind having a look at any 90+size display tanks they might have to check the craftmanship?
> 
> Sorry for all the edits. Its 03:30 here now so I´m not very focused :O


I will. I can take pictures too. Have not been there in a few months but last time I was there, I believe a 90P was set up (was having some drinks down the street, don't quote me on that). It was perfect. My local friend has a 60P and 120P, both are very well made. My basic point, I have never seen an ADA tank as off as yours. I was the one who thought it may be a counterfeit/knock off. 

If I make it tomorrow, I will take pics of both display tanks and tanks to sell (they are usually out but they often don't have big ones out). I will PM you and send you pictures if I am there. 

I will also see if there is some direct email, I don't think they will give it to me but who knows.


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## Matsnork (Jun 3, 2013)

That sounds splendid. Looking forward to your report.


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## ThatGuyWithTheFish (Apr 29, 2012)

Matsnork said:


> I´ve been told they have not heard back from ADA. And I have sent two emails to no avail. Maybe google translate my email to japanese and try again... :/


ADA people should be able to understand English well enough.


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## Matsnork (Jun 3, 2013)

ThatGuyWithTheFish said:


> ADA people should be able to understand English well enough.


One would think so. Still, in an ironic effort to be heard I google translated a summarized version of my mail to Japanese. Both the sign version and in western letters.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Matsnork said:


> That sounds splendid. Looking forward to your report.


So unfortunately I did not have much time at AFA. They had a 90P setup (notice old logo) but not out for sale. I didn't have time to speak to anyone and my pictures came out a bit blurry. It was hard to get a good angle as they had many tanks for sale right infront of the display tanks. Hopefully the pictures at least help. I can verify what I already knew, all there tanks were as close to perfect as it gets. 

I wonder if you may try calling AFA and see if they can help you either get a better contact, or maybe they would be nice enough to try to help. I haven't found them to be particularly helpful or hard to deal with myself, they aren't bad but are just so busy. If they have pride in the brand they stand behind, I would think they could do something for you.


Here are the few pictures I got, sorry some are a bit blurry but you can see that their are no noticeable flaws both in how square the tank is and the silicone work. What looks what could be an imperfection on the top right of the tank is just some algae on the front glass.


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## Matsnork (Jun 3, 2013)

Thanks a bunch! 

First pictures I´ve seen (after hours of googling) that really show how close the tank follows the stand. Any alignment issues would be very noticeable if I had an ADA stand. The tank would hang over the edge. That is an ADA stand in the picture isnt it?

My non-ADA stand has an extra 5mm width.

A few months after I ordered my tank, ADA Norway became the official Nordic dealer. So I´ll be contacting them to hear if they´ve had any faulty tanks come through and what experiences with ADA customer support. I ´ll leave the yank-dealer alone for now


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

I am not familiar enough with ADA stands to know a real one from a different brand or DIY. I don't think AFA sells any DIY stands but I don't know. They did have a few stands (only one on display, all others for sale) that didn't look like any ADA stand I have seen, it had a raised or recessed section, I can't remember off the top of my head. They didn't seem to be as nice as the other stands on display. That stand was probably the nicest looking, if you like white, of all the stands there. If it is not ADA, it was still an excellent quality stand and fit the tank perfectly without any gaps or edge hanging over, etc. Perfectly matched, felt it with my fingers.


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## Matsnork (Jun 3, 2013)

Ok so today I got some good news from my local ADA "retailer". ADA Germany is looking into sending me a new tank and I really hope they do not back out. Fingers crossed!


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## Green_Flash (Apr 15, 2012)

Great!


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Very good to hear. This thread actually got me thinking that I would not likely buy an ADA tank online or shipped for that matter. I am lucky enough to have AFA in my area but that doesn't mean they have everything in stock which could take months. My only reason for saying that is I hope they are paying attention because this should have been a straight forward affair, IMO. I actually decided to skip ADA lily pipes (stainless) due to seeing more rust than I would have expected on a display, with this thread in the back of my head.


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## Matsnork (Jun 3, 2013)

I agree, buying in a shop is always the way to go when dealing with this kind of merchandise. Or maybe if you have a good dialog with a seller who can double check the item before shipping it, snap some pictures and so on. 

Good thing you brought it up. I´m going to send an email about this. Ask ze germanz to do a quality check before shipping... Otherwise, with my luck, I´m going to get a tank from a bad batch again.


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## Matsnork (Jun 3, 2013)

Ok so no new tank is going to be shipped to me any time soon. Distributor is very reluctant because of the extreme costs involved. If they would ship it they want proof that I destroy my faulty 90-P(!) Sounds kind of nutty. 

The store I bought it from is reluctant to pay for shipping but is still kinda good natured towards me. If no new tank then hoping for atleast a partial refund.

Never buying an unseen tank again thats for sure.


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## AaronT (Apr 11, 2004)

I have one of the older ADA tanks and the dimensions are near perfect down to the millimeter. I would not have been happy either. 

It would seem the costs have gone up and the quality has gone down. I have heard that they moved production from Germany to China.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Matsnork said:


> Ok so no new tank is going to be shipped to me any time soon. Distributor is very reluctant because of the extreme costs involved. If they would ship it they want proof that I destroy my faulty 90-P(!) Sounds kind of nutty.
> 
> The store I bought it from is reluctant to pay for shipping but is still kinda good natured towards me. If no new tank then hoping for atleast a partial refund.
> 
> Never buying an unseen tank again thats for sure.


I would just go ahead and destroy it, after you get the new tank. I bet they are just concerned you may resell it when they are already taking the loss.

Question, how do the NA tanks compare to ADA (assuming this isn't your first ADA tank of course). Also, what is there availability? It seems like they are still trying to hassle you, if NA makes comparable tanks and are easy to get, maybe you can get them to just cut a check. Trust me, I am a big fan of ADA stuff but now there are too many other brands for anything to be less than perfect. Maybe it's because we don't get NA stuff here but their products as appealing if not more than ADA to myself.

Just thinking you may have another route here that may make your life easier.


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## Matsnork (Jun 3, 2013)

talontsiawd said:


> I would just go ahead and destroy it, after you get the new tank.


They want me to destroy it before they send a new one. :eek5:
I´m pushing for a partial refund. Like 40-50%... Still cheaper than shipping for the retailer. 



talontsiawd said:


> Question, how do the NA tanks compare to ADA


Not the same league I think but much cheaper. Especially the big tanks. Their new line of tanks/stands was just released a few months ago. They use thinner glass (like the older ADA tanks.) 90x45x50cm tank is 8mm, 120x50x50 is 10mm and so on. So a little bit taller/bigger tanks but with thinner glass. Anyone know if this affects durability much?

Been trying to get the NA tank owner on this forum to take some close ups on the tank hardware. 

Copied from their product info:
"Due the fact of being hand made aquarium tank, tiny flaws are inherent"

They are honest about variations in quality it seems. And the customer support is the best I´ve ever come across. Almost to the point at being intrusive


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Maybe you should have something in writing if you want to go ahead with things. I don't know if that would make things more complicated or not. I would be hesitant to smash it before you get the new one because as far as I can tell, they have not done a great job at establishing trust here. 

I don't think you will have an issue with glass thickness. I was actually kind of surprised when my friend graciously gave me his 60P for a wedding present. I thought the glass was rather thick (not overly thick) for the tank size. 

I did forget the NA was a bit taller. I think the 90P has perfect dimensions so that could bug me if I had already purchased the 90P. 

It just seems strange to me how they are dealing with the whole thing.


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## Matsnork (Jun 3, 2013)

Not smashing anything.... yet. Maybe later for completely different reasons ^^

The NA 90x45x50cm is 200usd + 70usd delivered. Thats what I paid for my 60-P not including shipping. I could live with a few flaws for that price. Well well, too late now.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Matsnork said:


> Not smashing anything.... yet. Maybe later for completely different reasons ^^
> 
> The NA 90x45x50cm is 200usd + 70usd delivered. Thats what I paid for my 60-P not including shipping. I could live with a few flaws for that price. Well well, too late now.


That's not a bad price. Mr. Aqua is around $300 and though I have seen some nice tanks from them, I have seen some not so nice. Hope you get it resolved, I just love the 90P so much. It would have been my next tank if my wife felt we could fit it.


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## Matsnork (Jun 3, 2013)

Got a refund offer of 26% with the catch that no responsability taken if the tank leaks. Dealership basically paying to get out of any warranty claims, cheaply I might add. No deal. At least 40% refund required imho.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Wow, they really don't want to claim responsibility. If you are not including shipping, as per US pricing, you could not even go out and buy a knock off to replace it. Given some of ADA's competitors are sending out new tanks for cosmetic flaws (without return shipping or expectation to destroy), I don't know where they came up with that number. 

I they saying for 26%, you loose your warranty? I have never heard of anything like that if that is what you are saying. It's like saying, we know your tank is messed up so we will pay you a fraction back but not honor what we should because we know that the quality of the tank will void the warranty anyway. 

That said, what is the warranty of an ADA tank? All I can find is "2 year quality warranty" which leads me to believe you have a warranty claim right there. I would assume that would be replacement or 100% money back but I am sure that there is more than that, never have purchased an ADA tank.


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## AnotherHobby (Mar 5, 2012)

This is pretty ridiculous, especially considering the price they demand.


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## Matsnork (Jun 3, 2013)

In Sweden according to consumer protection regulations; everything (not including expendable items etc) comes with a 3 year warranty claim.


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## Green_Flash (Apr 15, 2012)

Anything less than 100% or tank replacement would be unacceptable for me.
You paid the premium price, you should get premium service and premium product, no questions asked. 

If the edges aren't straight, what else might be wrong you could wonder?


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## ThatGuyWithTheFish (Apr 29, 2012)

I'd have to say that you're one of the few out of thousands of tanks that were sold. They're nearly perfect but very occasionally you'll get something like this. Too bad.


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## AnotherHobby (Mar 5, 2012)

ThatGuyWithTheFish said:


> I'd have to say that you're one of the few out of thousands of tanks that were sold. They're nearly perfect but very occasionally you'll get something like this. Too bad.


Completely understandable that it happens, but it's coupled with completely unacceptable customer service. It's rotten, and it reflects very poorly on ADA.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

I forget if this has been covered by have you ever asked the retailer you purchased it from if they even examined the tank? It's probably too late to bring it up now but I am wondering why they were willing to even ship it to you. They had to either not care at all about their customers, or just didn't pay attention. Just kind of curious because that also seems strange to me.


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## ThatGuyWithTheFish (Apr 29, 2012)

AnotherHobby said:


> Completely understandable that it happens, but it's coupled with completely unacceptable customer service. It's rotten, and it reflects very poorly on ADA.


It's not ADA he bought from, but a distributor. Their problem really. They should have noticed it before selling it so that could have been taken care of from business to business.


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## AnotherHobby (Mar 5, 2012)

ThatGuyWithTheFish said:


> It's not ADA he bought from, but a distributor. Their problem really. They should have noticed it before selling it so that could have been taken care of from business to business.


Distributors work with manufacturers on product returns. Good companies stand behind their products.


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## ThatGuyWithTheFish (Apr 29, 2012)

AnotherHobby said:


> Distributors work with manufacturers on product returns. Good companies stand behind their products.


How do you know the dialogue that's going on between the distributor and ADA? Anyways, if I were ADA I would have little sympathy because they sold the product to a customer without properly examining it. In manufacturing things can slip buy, so that's why it's important to have another check before the final sales. To be clear, it's the distributor, not ADA, offering a weak refund.


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## ua hua (Oct 30, 2009)

ThatGuyWithTheFish said:


> How do you know the dialogue that's going on between the distributor and ADA? Anyways, if I were ADA I would have little sympathy because they sold the product to a customer without properly examining it. In manufacturing things can slip buy, so that's why it's important to have another check before the final sales. To be clear, it's the distributor, not ADA, offering a weak refund.


The simple fact is that this is an ADA product and they are the manufacturer of said product. I don't quite understand saying that ADA should have little sympathy because their distributor sold an inferior product that ADA is the manufacturer and company who has their name on it. It's not the customers fault that the product is defective nor is it the distributors fault. The fault lies with the company who sells the product with their name on it. I would not be happy with anything other than perfection with a product that charges luxury prices for its items.


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## Matsnork (Jun 3, 2013)

Things get stranger and stranger.

After talking to my retailer apperantly the first refund offer from the German distributor was ~ 75usd or aprox 10% but the retailer is willing to refund 40% out of his/her own pockt. That is acceptable for me but we are still waiting to hear from ADA Japan. 

Just want to get this project going!


ThatGuyWithTheFish;

It´s not the distributors job to do quality control.


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## Matsnork (Jun 3, 2013)

Finally decided on a 40% partial refund. Can finally move on with the project now. 

ADA never got back to me or to the lfs. They have lost me and the lfs as a customer for ever. 

Thanks for all the support in this thread!


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## fjord (Feb 1, 2011)

*Wow!*

This thread just convinced me not to buy a large ADA tank. Has anyone looked at the GLA tanks?


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

fjord said:


> This thread just convinced me not to buy a large ADA tank. Has anyone looked at the GLA tanks?


I have never seen a faulty 90P myself, I think this is the only thread I have seen. I go to AFA, where you would likely buy it from, or it would go through them, and from my experience, they would likely be pretty reasonable about a return. They are a very reasonable store, IMO, again, only bought from the storefront but I don't think they would risk their reputation. 

That said, TruAqua makes bigger tanks now and from what I have seen, they are the closest to ADA I have seen. I once argued differently but now that I have seen more, the quality has gone up, but so has the prices. I know many consider it low end but my guess is that they probably use the same manufacturer as ADA or similar. The glass is beautiful, the silicone is great, and unlike some Mr. Aqua tanks, everything lines up perfectly. I don't think Mr. Aqua is a bad brand, I just think they make nice tanks, TruAqua's tanks look really great, and my 60P and other ADA tanks are basically perfect. 

As far as GLA, no clue. They made some batches of tanks and most people liked them and then they stopped. Now they seem to have them again. I don't want to knock GLA in any way, but they often "rebrand" existing stuff. I wouldn't be suprised if these were TruAqua, Mr. Aqua, or the like with the GLA name. That's fine because they are a great company and if you have issues, they deal with it, but you may pay more for the same thing.


EDIT...I thought TruAqua was the only one who made this size...http://www.truaqua.com/high-clarity-glass-aquarium-hca-24.html
GLA now has it, though the didn't in the past...http://greenleafaquariums.com/products/gla-high-clarity-aquarium-60cm-60-x-30-x-45cm-21-4gal.html

Actually cheaper but I didn't look at shipping. Just saying it may be the same tank, I wouldn't be surprised. But, they take care of you better, I am not speaking bad about GLA, I just know they rebrand.


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## AaronT (Apr 11, 2004)

I have an ADA 90-P that I've had for 7 years now and it's held up well and was well made from the start. The only thing I don't like about it, or any other rimless tank is that I simply cannot keep fish from jumping out of it to save my life. If I were buying a new one to replace it I would seriously consider an acrylic tank with a euro rim just to mitigate this issue.


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## Matsnork (Jun 3, 2013)

AaronT said:


> I have an ADA 90-P that I've had for 7 years now and it's held up well and was well made from the start. The only thing I don't like about it, or any other rimless tank is that I simply cannot keep fish from jumping out of it to save my life. If I were buying a new one to replace it I would seriously consider an acrylic tank with a euro rim just to mitigate this issue.


Not really relevant because the older ADA tanks are not from the same manufacturer. The profit margin is much higher since fabrication moved to China (I´m guessing) and quality control is pretty bad. 

If you can get support and buy a tank locally accompanied by good customer support then fine... But do you really want to support ADA after such a douch move?


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