# Rummy nose dieing ... Whirling disease??



## dekstr (Oct 23, 2007)

Hey topfrog007,

Some of the same symptoms happened to a few of my RMTs when I first got them. A few died but most of them survived. It could be a # of factors. They are probably really stressed from being moved around so much at the LFS and finally acclimating to the water conditions in your area.

Try to keep the water very clean, zero NH4/NH3 and until you see definite symptoms of a certain disease, don't medicate the tank as it usually causes more harm than good. If you do medicate, do so in a quarantine tank on the affected fishes.

Also, water changes also seem to help a lot. So do frequent water changes the next couple of days and keep the water clean, then see what happens then.


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## fishscale (May 29, 2007)

Are the fish new, or did this just develop recently? For what it's worth, Pima/Melafix are supposedly natural antifungal/antibacterials, and aren't really very strong. I have used it without any harm, but I am guessing it also isn't very good against more serious infections.


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## topfrog007 (Dec 30, 2007)

The fish are new. I got 4 of them about a week and half ago. Then about 4 days ago I got 6 more. Since then they have been dieing off. Right now I have 6 total. Their schooling together and appear to be fine. One that I put in the QT tank isn't dead yet, which is surprising. He actually seems to be doing better, instead of swimming and wildly spinning or corkscrewing he swims very little and stays at the bottom of the tank. But he isn't upside down or in some weird position, he's just hovering at the bottom. So I think he might make it.

The QT tank is just a 5G tank which I raised the temperature to 82 and used Pimafix and Melafix. So whatever is helping it seems to be doing ok.

I'm wondering if I should try and acclimate using a better processes.


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## SearunSimpson (Jun 5, 2007)

I highly doubt it is Whirling Disease. I only know of WD from flyfishing, and conservational efforts that are put in place against it up here. Here is a link to a site that can explain it more. http://www.protectyourwaters.net/hitchhikers/others_whirling_disease.php 

WD, intermediately hosted by a tubifex worm is the only relation to aquaria that it can have. Other than that, it is exclusive to cold water fish. Unless you're keeping your RMT's in pretty cool waters and feeding your fish native caught tubifex worms, I don't see how it could be WD.

I think it is more due to stress. Also, if you're first four didn't die, but they started to die off from the addition of the first six, it was probably something to do with either the water that the second six came in, or it was an internal parasite. You should never dump the water from the store into your tank. Once you've acclimated the fish, scoop them from the bag. 
Also, another good method of acclimation is the drip method. Google this, or search the forums.

J


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## topfrog007 (Dec 30, 2007)

@ Searun, I think your correct. I didn't realize WD was mostly salmon and trout and usually only in the wild.

The rummy I had in the QT tank died. He lived about a day and half with the symptoms, much longer than any of the other rummy's showing the same signs. 

So now I have 6. No signs of anything. I ran out of test strips so I took a sample of my water in to the LFS. They said there was nothing alarming about my water and that everything looked fine. 

So I guess I've sort of concluded that it was stress, how can I combat this in the future?


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## SearunSimpson (Jun 5, 2007)

Slower or drip method aclimation, keeping the lights off on the tank when floating the bags, adding prime or stress-coat or similar, and also, QTing them from the get-go for a week or so are just a few things you could do.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I don't buy any rummies if any other fish in the store is showing signs of ich, fungus, or other disease, won't buy them if there are any other dead fish in the same or neighboring tanks. I also won't buy any that have been in the store for less than a week, unless I get them the day of shipment and they never even went into a display tank.

I drip acclimate and QT for 2 weeks in a low dose of prophylactic salt (1/2 tsp/gallon). My QT tank has lots of floating plastic plants which I believe help minimize stress (plus stand up to the salt). Most of the fish that die usually do so within the first week. As long as all the remaining fish look healthy, then I take a few days and do PWC in the QT tank, replacing the water with destination tank water. I float them in a bag or clear container in the destination tank and slowly fill that with tank water for at least an hour before finally releasing them into the tank.

Acclimitization needs to go very slowly and carefully with these fish, and IMO they always need some sort of prophylactic treatment during QT b/c they are so sensitive to ich and fungus.


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## topfrog007 (Dec 30, 2007)

Interesting. Sorry to bring this thread back to life, but today I woke up and one of my 6 remaining rummies was no longer schooling. He hasn't started spinning or whirling yet, but he is swimming very lethargically up near the surface. I'd estimate this one has been in the tank about 5 days.

I'm afraid I'm going to loose him too. Since the whole QT doesn't seem to be working for my rummies, are there any suggestions I can do to try and save him?


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## topfrog007 (Dec 30, 2007)

I just got home, 2 died. 

Now I have 4.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

It's a judgement call. If you think it's acclimitization stress taking them out, then moving them into QT would not be a good idea. On the other hand, if it's a disease/parasite, then the others have also been exposed and could need treatment... not an easy call to make?


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## fishscale (May 29, 2007)

5g is a bit small for what you have. Normally, I would say it's fine, but new stressed fish might be a little different. I know it's just QT, but it's a critical time.


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## topfrog007 (Dec 30, 2007)

I did a 40% water change. Used prime before adding new water. I think I'm going to wait it out and see what happens with them in the tank. 

3 Have bright red noses and 1 has a pale nose, so I'm worried about him. He's still schooling and acting normal though.

I in a few hours his nose should be back to normal color, I've heard that their nose color will always change during water changes. And of course if you have something wrong!!


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Have you ever tested your tap water? Possible that your tap contains ammonia, nitrIte or nitrAte, and this could be part of the problem.

I always treat my water outside the tank, personally.


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## topfrog007 (Dec 30, 2007)

lauraleellbp said:


> Have you ever tested your tap water? Possible that your tap contains ammonia, nitrIte or nitrAte, and this could be part of the problem.
> 
> I always treat my water outside the tank, personally.


I know that is the preferred method, I just don't have any way of actually doing that... 

As for my tap water containing ammonia, nitrite, or nitrate, I'm not positive but I remember testing it about a year ago and it was fine, zero on all fronts. It's only the rummys that are dieing, none of the other fish show any symptoms at all...

It's really getting on my nerves, I hate loosing fish, I feel like I'm letting them down. =(


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I use a 3gallon bucket.

I'm not sure that it's the problem, though- with the info currently provided I'd probably chalk it up to poor handling up to the point where they reached you, and then possibly not the most gentle acclimitization on your part were just too much for them; very very common with small tetras, unfortunately.


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## Lotsofish (Aug 11, 2007)

I have given up on buying Rummynose. They are sensitive fish and don't do well with transport shock. They also like soft acidic water and don't adapt well to hard water or changes in water chemistry or temperature. I would not put them in a 5 gal tank simply because that small amount of water can lead to more rapid water chemistry changes.

You might try black neon tetras. I have found them to be one of the hardier schooling fish.


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