# Share Your Bulb Combo Thread



## Greggz

Very nice!

Definitely shows how color of light changes how the tank is perceived. 

So which is your favorite?


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## Hendy8888

I still like the Sunblaster 6400k/KZ Fiji Purple/KZ Fiji Purple/Giesemann Super Flora the best I think. I was surprised with how much red stayed with just the Sunblaster 6400k/KZ Fiji Purple/KZ Fiji Purple/Sunblaster 6400k combo. If it was a green plant only tank that would be my choice. It makes the green pop so well.

I still have a 10 000k, 2700k, ATI Aqua Blue Special and an ATI Blue plus to add to the mix. It's hard to add any blue or warm white in a 4 bulb setup I find.


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## Greggz

Hendy8888 said:


> I still like the Sunblaster 6400k/KZ Fiji Purple/KZ Fiji Purple/Giesemann Super Flora the best I think. I was surprised with how much red stayed with just the Sunblaster 6400k/KZ Fiji Purple/KZ Fiji Purple/Sunblaster 6400k combo.


Agreed. That is my favorite too.

But really, all are interesting in their own way.


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## Hendy8888

This might be an easier way to compare the colours. I will leave the other photos in post #1 as well because it lets you see the cast of light with open top tanks.
#1

#2

#3

#4

#5

#6

#7

#8

#9


#1 
Sunblaster 6400k/KZ Fiji Purple/KZ Fiji Purple/Giesemann Super Flora

#2
Sunblaster 6400k/Giesemann Super Flora/KZ Fiji Purple/Sunblaster 6400k

#3
Sunblaster 6400k/KZ Fiji Purple/KZ Fiji Purple/Sunblaster 6400k

#4
Giesemann Super Flora/KZ Fiji Purple/KZ Fiji Purple/ Giesemann Super Flora

#5
Giesemann Super Flora/KZ Fiji Purple/KZ Fiji Purple/ATI Purple Plus

#6
Sunblaster 6400k/KZ Fiji Purple/KZ Fiji Purple/ATI Purple Plus

#7
Sunblaster 6400k/Giesemann Super Flora/Sunblaster 6400k/Giesemann Super Flora

#8
Sunblaster 6400k/KZ Fiji Purple/Giesemann Super Flora/Sunblaster 6400k/ATI Purple Plus/Giesemann Super Flora

#9
Sunblaster 6400k/KZ Fiji Purple/KZ Fiji Purple/Sunblaster 6400k/ATI Purple Plus/Giesemann Super Flora


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## ipkiss

I thought I liked 4.
Then i liked 5 because I like purples
Then I liked 6 because, purples
But then i realized i like warmth too, so by comparison, I might go back to 5. 
But the funny thing is, unless I see the others, I didnt even know what I wanted.


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## Greggz

I took the opportunity to have some more fun with the Seneye PAR meter. Have been wanting to try some different combinations, so I broke out the bulb stash and went at it. 

And I know this is of limited interest to many, as only so many of us T5 nerds are around anymore. But I think the idea of color of light and how it presents the tank does translate over to LED, if only that more control of color is better.

So below are nine pics with different combinations of bulbs. At the end is a chart showing the combinations for each pic. 

Pic #1........








Pic #2.......








Pic #3.......








Pic #4.......








Pic #5.......








Pic #6.......








Pic #7.......








Pic #8.......








Pic #9.......


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## jeffkrol

Careful w/ interpreting the Seneys w/ lights heavy in 660nm or greater light output.
Meter response charts weak..
What is PAR & PUR ? - Seneye
http://answers.seneye.com/@api/deki/files/97/=seneye_PAR_response_curve.png


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## mboley

Is the a link that gives instructions on how to add pictures the way you guys have shown here?


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## jeffkrol

mboley said:


> Is the a link that gives instructions on how to add pictures the way you guys have shown here?



you can downlod some to here directly to your "album".


Other than that download to an image sharing site (or personal webspace) and add the link by the picture icon.


This site hs gotten pickier as to which images they allow.. as you can see by the broken one in my above post..


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## Hendy8888

mboley said:


> Is the a link that gives instructions on how to add pictures the way you guys have shown here?


I use postimages.org to host the pictures and then use the "forum hotlink" copy function and paste the code into a reply here. It formats automatically to insert a picture wherever you paste it.


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## Maybe Plants?

I will go with combo #4. Why are all the Super flora 54w bulbs sold out everywhere on the internet? Is there an equivalent somewhere?


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## Greggz

Maybe Plants? said:


> I will go with combo #4. Why are all the Super flora 54w bulbs sold out everywhere on the internet? Is there an equivalent somewhere?


If you mean the Giesemann Super Flora, I have not seen an equivalent.

And it's not the color, it's the PAR. I've tested lots of T5 bulbs, and Giesemann's are PAR beasts compared to everything else. 

Now, in some cases it may be too much PAR for some tanks, so it's good to understand what you are dealing with.


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## Maybe Plants?

Greggz said:


> If you mean the Giesemann Super Flora, I have not seen an equivalent.
> 
> And it's not the color, it's the PAR. I've tested lots of T5 bulbs, and Giesemann's are PAR beasts compared to everything else.
> 
> Now, in some cases it may be too much PAR for some tanks, so it's good to understand what you are dealing with.





I finally found some Giesemann floras. Going to try to mix that with the 660s.


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## Hendy8888

Maybe Plants? said:


> I will go with combo #4. Why are all the Super flora 54w bulbs sold out everywhere on the internet? Is there an equivalent somewhere?


Zoo Med, True Lumen, Wave Point, Red Sea, and Giesemann all have pink bulbs. I'm sure there's other brands I'm missing too. All will be slightly different from each other but once mixed you probably won't notice. As Greggz pointed out, the PAR output can be different from one manufacturer to the next.


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## Grobbins48

Just reviving this one a little bit. This information has been extremely helpful as I work to put together a new tank that will be only T5HO (likely 4 bulb over 75 gallon). I didn't realize the color that the standard Sunblaster 6400K bulb can put out with the combinations based on the above posts. 

I like the Giesemann Super Flora, as well as the Tropic 6500K. The Tropic 6500K looks to have a more desirable relative intensity graph than that of the Sunblaster (which seems only green heavy, with a slight yellow tick as well).

My initial thought was to run something like this (no order yet):

Giesemann Tropic 6500K, Giesemann Super Flora, Power VEG 660, Giesemann Super Purple

This give me some daylight, as well as 'blues' and 'reds' to balance each other out.

I can grab all the Giesmann from Bulk Reef Supply today- and should be able to source the Power VEG 660 from the garden center not too far from me.

Still learning here, and open to conversation and feedback!


Giesemann Tropic 6500K









Giesemann Super Flora









Sunblaster 6400K









Power VEG 660









Giesemann Super Purple


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## Grobbins48

So after some calling around... it looks like the PowerVEG is being discontinued??? Still looking into it...


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## RLee

Grobbins48 said:


> So after some calling around... it looks like the PowerVEG is being discontinued??? Still looking into it...


I like the PowerVeg 633 better than the 660. The 633 is the 1 that Burr uses if my memory is correct. I just purchased two of the 633 from a local hydro shop, no mention of being discontinued.


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## Grobbins48

RLee said:


> I like the PowerVeg 633 better than the 660. The 633 is the 1 that Burr uses if my memory is correct. I just purchased two of the 633 from a local hydro shop, no mention of being discontinued.


Okay, good to know. I feel like I recall a conversation where someone like the 633 better, and maybe it was Burr. Thanks for pointing that out. Still putting this together so the feedback is great!

Perhaps it was just my local hydro shop that was discontinuing them. My garden center said they needed to order 20 of them to get them in, so that was a no go as well. Amazon has them, but for $36 each.

I'll keep looking around.


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## RLee

Grobbins48 said:


> Okay, good to know. I feel like I recall a conversation where someone like the 633 better, and maybe it was Burr. Thanks for pointing that out. Still putting this together so the feedback is great!
> 
> Perhaps it was just my local hydro shop that was discontinuing them. My garden center said they needed to order 20 of them to get them in, so that was a no go as well. Amazon has them, but for $36 each.
> 
> I'll keep looking around.



This is where i got mine https://www.bghydro.com/grow-lights...powerveg-633-t5-ho-fluorescent-lamp-4-ft.html. I had them shipped and they arrived packaged superbly. They used thick cardboard and bubble wrapped them individualy. I have purchased bulbs from a few different companies and these were by far packaged the best. Really thats the whole reason most don't buy bulbs online is they arrive broken.


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## Grobbins48

RLee said:


> This is where i got mine https://www.bghydro.com/grow-lights...powerveg-633-t5-ho-fluorescent-lamp-4-ft.html. I had them shipped and they arrived packaged superbly. They used thick cardboard and bubble wrapped them individualy. I have purchased bulbs from a few different companies and these were by far packaged the best. Really thats the whole reason most don't buy bulbs online is they arrive broken.


Thank you for sharing!


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## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> Giesemann Tropic 6500K, Giesemann Super Flora, Power VEG 660, Giesemann Super Purple


That looks like a very good combination. Should provide great color and great PAR too.

The 633 vs. 660 comes down to personal taste. I swapped out my 660 for 633 and the look to me had a slight orange tint. Went right back to the 660. But that is my personal taste with my particular mix of bulbs. In reality either one will probably look great.


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## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> That looks like a very good combination. Should provide great color and great PAR too.
> 
> 
> 
> The 633 vs. 660 comes down to personal taste. I swapped out my 660 for 633 and the look to me had a slight orange tint. Went right back to the 660. But that is my personal taste with my particular mix of bulbs. In reality either one will probably look great.


Thanks for the feedback. I placed the order on bulk reef- just need to finalize the power veg. 

Excited to make this transition!


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## Hendy8888

4 bulbs are hard, I will be trying the same combo in the next month or two but with the Sunblaster 6400k instead of a midday. Going to get a 620 and a 660 to see how each looks. 

I do love Paulina Zagorowska's bulb combo in her pictures, I think it's 2/3 aquaflora and 1/3 midday on a 6 bulb setup. I recently tried it out but had to use 1 zoomed pink. Took pictures and the white balance was off, it still didn't satisfy me completely but I didn't give it much of a chance either. That setup doesn't translate to 4 bulbs anyways.

Don't forget to add your combo with pics once you get everything set up.


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## Grobbins48

Hendy8888 said:


> 4 bulbs are hard, I will be trying the same combo in the next month or two but with the Sunblaster 6400k instead of a midday. Going to get a 620 and a 660 to see how each looks.
> 
> I do love Paulina Zagorowska's bulb combo in her pictures, I think it's 2/3 aquaflora and 1/3 midday on a 6 bulb setup. I recently tried it out but had to use 1 zoomed pink. Took pictures and the white balance was off, it still didn't satisfy me completely but I didn't give it much of a chance either. That setup doesn't translate to 4 bulbs anyways.
> 
> Don't forget to add your combo with pics once you get everything set up.


Funny you should mention 4 bulbs...

So I have one fixture here currently, and two more on the way (found a two pack). So now my decision to make is do I grab one more for 4, or another two pack for 5 total.

Before you posted this I have been considering the 5 bulb route- both options are sitting in my Amazon cart waiting for my decision.


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## Hendy8888

Grobbins48 said:


> Funny you should mention 4 bulbs...
> 
> 
> 
> So I have one fixture here currently, and two more on the way (found a two pack). So now my decision to make is do I grab one more for 4, or another two pack for 5 total.
> 
> 
> 
> Before you posted this I have been considering the 5 bulb route- both options are sitting in my Amazon cart waiting for my decision.




Four is all you need but your going to get five anyways...lol


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## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> Funny you should mention 4 bulbs...
> 
> So I have one fixture here currently, and two more on the way (found a two pack). So now my decision to make is do I grab one more for 4, or another two pack for 5 total.
> 
> Before you posted this I have been considering the 5 bulb route- both options are sitting in my Amazon cart waiting for my decision.


You know I love MORE light.

But with a 75G, likely 4 bulbs is plenty, particularly with Giesemann's, which are higher PAR than most. 

For reference Burr is running 4 x T5HO over his 75G......pretty sure somewhere just over 100 PAR at substrate.


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## Grobbins48

Hendy8888 said:


> Four is all you need but your going to get five anyways...lol





Greggz said:


> You know I love MORE light.
> 
> But with a 75G, likely 4 bulbs is plenty, particularly with Giesemann's, which are higher PAR than most.
> 
> For reference Burr is running 4 x T5HO over his 75G......pretty sure somewhere just over 100 PAR at substrate.


It's the temptation of $52 for one or $88 for two, but I suppose you are both absolutely right, that 4 is plenty...

I'll hit buy later tonight, ha!


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## Hendy8888

Grobbins48 said:


> It's the temptation of $52 for one or $88 for two, but I suppose you are both absolutely right, that 4 is plenty...
> 
> I'll hit buy later tonight, ha!




What fixtures are you using? I primarily run four bulbs on a 24” wide tank, everything grew just fine but noticed slow growth with new plants in the very back behind rocks. With the 18” I don’t think you will have that issue. If you want a really nice looking bulb that make colours pop but keep PAR low look into the Coralife colormax.


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## Grobbins48

Using the Sunblaster Nano Tech fixtures with reflectors in a hood I am building. 

I have the Giesemann Tropic 6500K, Giesemann Super Flora, and Giesemann Super Purple on order right now. 

4 is what I'll stick with- I am trying to get some better color and stay around the 100ish for PAR so I can run 4 all day long- 8hrs (right now I run 80ish 8 hrs with a 150ish 2hr blast).


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## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> It's the temptation of $52 for one or $88 for two


Well, when you put it that way.......not out of the question.:wink2:

I mean I have six across my 18" wide tank, but my tank is quite a bit taller. 

Are you going to build a canopy? If so, you also need to take into account how far up into canopy they will be mounted, and distance to substrate.

Oh the possibilities!!!:grin2:


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## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> Well, when you put it that way.......not out of the question.:wink2:
> 
> 
> 
> I mean I have six across my 18" wide tank, but my tank is quite a bit taller.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you going to build a canopy? If so, you also need to take into account how far up into canopy they will be mounted, and distance to substrate.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh the possibilities!!!:grin2:


Yes, canopy is being work on currently. Top of canopy will be about 9.75 inches from the top of the tank, and with 18inch tank and ~2 inch substrate, call it 26ish inches from lights to substrate. 

Can always run 4 of 5 if needed, right???


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## Ken Keating1

Great thread @Hendy8888, somehow I missed the entire thread for the past couple of months and just read it today. The side-by-side photos in post # 5 and @Greggz's photos in post #7 really show the differences between the bulb combinations. It's very helpful.


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## gus6464

PowerVeg FS+UV is the best white bulb I've ever seen. Crisp white and broad spectrum.










Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk


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## Grobbins48

gus6464 said:


> PowerVeg FS+UV is the best white bulb I've ever seen. Crisp white and broad spectrum.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk


Wouldn't the strong UV degrade the plastic rim and center brace?


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## Hendy8888

@gus6464 Any tank pictures with your bulb combo? I remember being curious some time ago but don't think I ever saw it.


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## Patriot

I'm really liking the Sunblaster 6400k/KZ Fiji Purple/Giesemann Super Flora/Sunblaster 6400k/ATI Purple Plus/Giesemann Super Flora, but I don't think I could afford the $35 fiji bulbs. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Hendy8888

Patriot said:


> I'm really liking the Sunblaster 6400k/KZ Fiji Purple/Giesemann Super Flora/Sunblaster 6400k/ATI Purple Plus/Giesemann Super Flora, but I don't think I could afford the $35 fiji bulbs.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Just substitute a $22 purple plus, for our purposes it's the same bulb.


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## Grobbins48

Anyone use the AgroMax bulbs? Looking around I found these, and curious on feedback for appearance, PAR, and any other general feedback.


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## Patriot

I decided to go with powerveg 633, giesemann tropic 6500k, super flora, super purple, 3000k, and a 420 actinic. I'll pick up the 3000k and antic locally. 

I can't let the lady of the house figure out how much I just spent on bulbs. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## burr740

Grobbins48 said:


> Anyone use the AgroMax bulbs? Looking around I found these, and curious on feedback for appearance, PAR, and any other general feedback.


Good bulbs for the money, around $10 each. I've had a couple Pure Par for a few months. Color-wise its very similar to ATI Purple, might even have better color. It doesnt produce quite as much PAR as the ATI

If I didnt have all these Powerveg I'd load up on the red Pure Bloom. I just ordered one to try and a 4 pack of 3000K (my plantmax are getting old)

Guy on FB runs a 4 bulb combo of 1 each: red Pure Bloom, Pure PAR, 3000K bloom, and...I think a 6500K. Not sure on the 4th bulb but the tank looks great

Good place to buy - https://www.htgsupply.com/product-category/grow-lights/grow-light-bulbs/t5-bulbs/

Shipping on bulbs runs $20-30

They have good light units too, bought a couple from them


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## Grobbins48

burr740 said:


> Good bulbs for the money, around $10 each. I've had a couple Pure Par for a few months. Color-wise its very similar to ATI Purple, might even have better color. It doesnt produce quite as much PAR as the ATI
> 
> If I didnt have all these Powerveg I'd load up on the red Pure Bloom. I just ordered one to try and a 4 pack of 3000K (my plantmax are getting old)
> 
> Guy on FB runs a 4 bulb combo of 1 each: red Pure Bloom, Pure PAR, 3000K bloom, and...I think a 6500K. Not sure on the 4th bulb but the tank looks great
> 
> Good place to buy - https://www.htgsupply.com/product-category/grow-lights/grow-light-bulbs/t5-bulbs/
> 
> Shipping on bulbs runs $20-30
> 
> They have good light units too, bought a couple from them


Great, thank you for sharing this. The Pure Bloom looks similar to the 660 on the relative intensity graph.

I did look at HTG- I would grab a bunch, but the shipping kills it for 4 bulbs. 

Over at BGHygro i can grab the 660, 633, SunBlaster 2400K, and a Spectralus 3000K for $71 with shipping.

At HTG a Pure Bloom, 3000K, Super Veg and Pure PAR come to $68 with shipping.

I am leaning twoards the AgroMax, as lower PAR with lots of color might be nice coupled with two giesemann bulbs. Something like (no order) Super Flora, Tropic, Pure Bloom, 3000K, and Super Purple. Obviously grabbing a few others like the Super Veg and Super PAR to play around with?


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## Patriot

Anyone know of a cheaper place to order the powerveg 633 from? I ordered from this place earlier today and they canceled my order because they made a mistake on their site. The bulb was $21.52 and shipping was $11.04 bringing my total to $32.56. They sent me a tracking number and everything. 

Now they're saying shipping was actually $30 which would be $51.52 for one bulb. That's pretty crazy. 

I can try checking locally again, but two months ago it was back ordered at every hydroponic store.









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## aqua_rob

Horticulture source has them for $25 and shipping is 10.


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## Greggz

I contacted my local dealer for Powerveg and they ordered the bulbs and I was able to pick them up locally.

No shipping. 

You can find local dealers on the Hortilux site.


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## Grobbins48

Patriot said:


> Anyone know of a cheaper place to order the powerveg 633 from? I ordered from this place earlier today and they canceled my order because they made a mistake on their site. The bulb was $21.52 and shipping was $11.04 bringing my total to $32.56. They sent me a tracking number and everything.
> 
> Now they're saying shipping was actually $30 which would be $51.52 for one bulb. That's pretty crazy.
> 
> I can try checking locally again, but two months ago it was back ordered at every hydroponic store.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


I am having issues finding them locally as well. May need to call the manufacturer for more guidance.

On Amazon you can get one for ~$37, and free shipping with Prime. I want to order a few bulbs which is why I have not grabbed one on Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/Eye-PowerVEG...1?keywords=powerveg+633&qid=1576244680&sr=8-1

or the 660

https://www.amazon.com/Eye-PowerVEG...2?keywords=powerveg+660&qid=1576244749&sr=8-2


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## Patriot

Grobbins48 said:


> I am having issues finding them locally as well. May need to call the manufacturer for more guidance.
> 
> 
> 
> On Amazon you can get one for ~$37, and free shipping with Prime. I want to order a few bulbs which is why I have not grabbed one on Amazon.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Eye-PowerVEG...1?keywords=powerveg+633&qid=1576244680&sr=8-1
> 
> 
> 
> or the 660
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Eye-PowerVEG...2?keywords=powerveg+660&qid=1576244749&sr=8-2


Thank you. I might just have to order from Amazon. A bit spendy, but I'm sure it's worth it. 

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## Hendy8888

For anyone in Canada you can get knock off Power Veg bulbs from growlights.ca for $15, shipping is around $11. They are Fusion Bright brand? I think @slipfinger has used them but I have not yet. I don't think they ship to the US but you could always ask.


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## burr740

You can get a 4 pack of those Agromax Pure Bloom for about $25 from HTG and shipping is another $25. Thats 4 for around $50 shipped

https://www.htgsupply.com/products/agromax-pure-bloom-t5-bulbs-4-foot/

Those outta be very close to Powerveg reds. Mine should be here tomorrow or Mon, will know more for certain then


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## Patriot

I'm excited to see how those AgroMax bulbs work. They're 100% more affordable than the giesemann bulbs. I'm interested at how much PAR they put out. 

I was looking for a 3000k bulb and they have one so I'll order that now. 

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## Grobbins48

burr740 said:


> You can get a 4 pack of those Agromax Pure Bloom for about $25 from HTG and shipping is another $25. Thats 4 for around $50 shipped
> 
> https://www.htgsupply.com/products/agromax-pure-bloom-t5-bulbs-4-foot/
> 
> Those outta be very close to Powerveg reds. Mine should be here tomorrow or Mon, will know more for certain then


I am leaning towards ordering a few from this site. Looking forward to hearing back on the pure bloom bulb. Thanks!


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## burr740

The Agromax bulbs didnt come today but I did get two Super Floras in. One for the 50 and one for a 20. 










The 50 gal only has 2 bulbs. Currently a pretty fresh TrueLumen Flora and a 6500K. Wanted a little more PAR so I decided to try a Super Flora in place of the TLF.

Pics and PAR. Exposure is a little too bright but you'll get the gist

With the TLF and 6500K - 88 at the substrate










Super Flora and 6500K - 91 at the sub. 










Not much difference in PAR...yet. Its only been burning about 5 hours. I'll check it again in a few days after its burned in good. Probably be higher. Color-wise the TL is much better.


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## Grobbins48

burr740 said:


> The Agromax bulbs didnt come today but I did get two Super Floras in. One for the 50 and one for a 20.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The 50 gal only has 2 bulbs. Currently a pretty fresh TrueLumen Flora and a 6500K. Wanted a little more PAR so I decided to try a Super Flora in place of the TLF.
> 
> Pics and PAR. Exposure is a little too bright but you'll get the gist
> 
> With the TLF and 6500K - 88 at the substrate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Super Flora and 6500K - 91 at the sub.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not much difference in PAR...yet. Its only been burning about 5 hours. I'll check it again in a few days after its burned in good. Probably be higher. Color-wise the TL is much better.


Wow the TLF does bring out more color. Does the color of the bulb change at all during burn in?

Will be interesting to see more over the next few days.


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## Greggz

burr740 said:


> Not much difference in PAR...yet. Its only been burning about 5 hours. I'll check it again in a few days after its burned in good. Probably be higher. Color-wise the TL is much better.


Joe I will be interested to see if things change once that Super Flora burns in a bit.

I can tell you that in every single bulb test I have taken the Giesemann's are by far the highest PAR. And by a lot. Do you have it in the front or rear slot?


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## burr740

Grobbins48 said:


> Does the color of the bulb change at all during burn in?


Dont know. Seems like it would a little bit but Ive never noticed it



Greggz said:


> Joe I will be interested to see if things change once that Super Flora burns in a bit.
> 
> I can tell you that in every single bulb test I have taken the Giesemann's are by far the highest PAR. And by a lot. Do you have it in the front or rear slot?


Yeah I was surprised it wasnt more. Your tests are why I got one for this tank in the first place. Thought it would be a good way to raise PAR a little bit. Ive had a couple 24" but never had a 4' in the mix. We'll see what its doing in a couple of days...


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## Grobbins48

burr740 said:


> The Agromax bulbs didnt come today


Did they end up showing up? Crazy time of year for shipping things!


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## Patriot

I have a few bulbs arriving today. I'm praying they aren't broken on arrival. 

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## burr740

Grobbins48 said:


> Did they end up showing up? Crazy time of year for shipping things!



The order arrived today but they only sent the 3000Ks, left out the red bulb. I called and they are sending it plus an extra one for the inconvenience. Im cool with that. Will post a comparison to the PV when it arrives.


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## Patriot

I'm still waiting on the last three bulbs to arrive. The suspense is killing me. 

I suppose I could order the plants right now so they could be ready around the same time. 

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## burr740

Agromax Pure Bloom arrived yesterday. 










As expected it's very similar to Powerveg reds. Here it is beside a PV 660 in the light fixture

PV on the right, Agromax Pure Bloom on the left










PV in back, Agromax in front










Looking at the bulbs, the Agromax compares more to the PV 633, which looks a little "warmer" than the 660 in pics.

These pics are with one or the other. There's a TrueLumen flora in the other slot. There's not a ton of reds in the tank but enough to get the idea

PV










Agromax










Color-wise, not much different. PAR is very close too, 3-4 points higher with the Agromax, which was brand new at the time of reading. I think it is safe to say the Agromax Pure Bloom is a solid replacement for Powerveg bulbs at 1/3 of the cost

Speaking of brand new, the Geisemann Super Flora measured the other day when it was new, PAR hasnt changed at all now in 4-5 days. Still the same as day one. So maybe the typical 'burn-in' period can vary by brand or depend on the manufacturing process...or something. Or maybe this bulb I got was used a couple of days then returned. Idk, but it didnt change any


----------



## Greggz

burr740 said:


> Speaking of brand new, the Geisemann Super Flora measured the other day when it was new, PAR hasnt changed at all now in 4-5 days. Still the same as day one. So maybe the typical 'burn-in' period can vary by brand or depend on the manufacturing process...or something. Or maybe this bulb I got was used a couple of days then returned. Idk, but it didnt change any


Joe I am at a loss here.

Every single time I have tested any Giesemann bulb, it's the highest PAR of any similarly colored bulb.

Just a couple weeks back swapped out two Truleumen Flora for two Giesemann Super Flora, and PAR went up from 127 to almost 150 at the substrate. And that's just changing two of six bulbs. 

I also tested a single TrueLumen Flora vs a single Giesemann Super Flora. Reading taken 2" below the water surface, Truelumen was 76 PAR and Giesemann was 108. Not even a contest.

Not sure what is going on with yours, but I can tell you it has been 100% consistent for me. 

Let me know if you want to borrow the Seneye so we are testing with the same equipment.


----------



## Grobbins48

My Seneye just came in, so I'll have some details to post as bulbs come in and I get my 75 flooded. 

Good to hear about the pure bloom. I ordered one each of 6 different bulbs from the AgroMax line. Very curious to see where everything ends up and what I go with.


----------



## burr740

Greggz said:


> Joe I am at a loss here.
> 
> Every single time I have tested any Giesemann bulb, it's the highest PAR of any similarly colored bulb.
> 
> Just a couple weeks back swapped out two Truleumen Flora for two Giesemann Super Flora, and PAR went up from 127 to almost 150 at the substrate. And that's just changing two of six bulbs.
> 
> I also tested a single TrueLumen Flora vs a single Giesemann Super Flora. Reading taken 2" below the water surface, Truelumen was 76 PAR and Giesemann was 108. Not even a contest.
> 
> Not sure what is going on with yours, but I can tell you it has been 100% consistent for me.
> 
> Let me know if you want to borrow the Seneye so we are testing with the same equipment.


 Yeah idk what the deal is. I know they are strong from the couple of 24" I have. 

From my journal since we're sharing combos. This is my favorite four bulb set up. It uses a blue 420 actinic in place of a purple










Front to back:
3000K
420 actinic
PV 633
Geisemann flora










The other tanks with four bulbs use the basically same combo except with a purple instead of the actinic, and its just not quite the same. If I hadnt just recently stocked up on ATI purples and Agromax Pure Par, I'd be swapping all my purple bulbs out for actinics. Still might ....


----------



## Hendy8888

I tried a Sunblaster 2700k and really didn't like it but maybe it just needs the actinic to help offset the yellow. 

Another bulb I have been thinking of trying out is a Giesemann blue lagoon. It looks very teal and can't help but wonder if it would bring out more greens.


----------



## burr740

Hendy8888 said:


> I tried a Sunblaster 2700k and really didn't like it but maybe it just needs the actinic to help offset the yellow.


Anything in the 3000K range needs a very strong blue in the mix to offset the harsh yellow. It'll look terrible with just flora or 6500k bulbs


----------



## mgeorges

I can't believe I'm just stumbling onto this thread. Going to need to do some reading I suppose!

Here's my current T5HO setup on my 29 gallon, been running this for several months now and VERY pleased with the results -
PowerVEG 420
Giesemann Super Flora
PowerVEG FS+UV
PowerVEG 660

Thanks to Greggz, I was able to determine my PAR to be ~100 close to substrate, though tank was fairly overgrown and that number might be a little higher. I think the combination of the added low end UV spectrum added by the PowerVEG FS+UV and the 420 really brings out a ton of red in plants. I see reds in my Hygrophila compacta "Siamensis", I had some unknown Rotala species that looked like your typically rotundifolia color up into vivid reds with some yellow/orange closer to the base of the stem, Blyxa is getting nice red, and Ranunculus inundatus is showing a bit of red as well. I think this is a protective measure by the plants in response to the extra UV, but I'm not 100%. 

I love the color temp this creates, I'll try to remember to take some pictures tomorrow of the 29 gallon to post. I just did a bunch of trimming and replanting, so it's not looking its best, but for showing color temp and plant coloration, it'll do.


----------



## burr740

Let's see a pic @mgeorges ! I've been itching to pull the trigger on a couple of those PV UVs


----------



## Patriot

Do the UV bulbs have any effect on degrading the sealant and plastics of the tank? 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## mgeorges

Here are some photos from September, before I yanked everything out and did the re-plant - Google drive links since it doesn't want to upload nicely...
Full tank - https://drive.google.com/file/d/12nDx-LiTLnjuHzzBh34n1CuedlScLET6/view?usp=sharing
Staurogyne "Purple" - https://drive.google.com/file/d/12gBP7RInogv7TFvez2oAXacSZshf18ur/view?usp=sharing
Unknown Rotala type - https://drive.google.com/file/d/12ZQGFSxB19bpCdqcaCdKwa3mJAiUW9Tk/view?usp=sharing
Regular H. polysperma looking pinkish - https://drive.google.com/file/d/12PZR6slFD0sQh80yRi7tVQ4Q-RYBHKZc/view?usp=sharing

Water change 22.5 gallons weekly with RODI, front loading all macros, this is what I remineralize to -
https://drive.google.com/file/d/10zGBFXuGb8Tj03PKg_5j65BX2pLMloIS/view?usp=sharing

This is the current state of the tank. It's freshly re-planted, only been a few weeks. Blyxa is still small but color is great. L. aromatica just got replanted yesterday and color is pretty vibrant. Joe, you'll see some of the H. compacta "siamensis" in the tank and in my hand, that's showing a bit of orange/red. I have a hard time capturing some of the color because I'm using a phone, but I think this should give a decent idea.
Bulb config from left to right - PowerVEG FS+UV, PowerVEG 660, Giesemann Super Flora, PowerVEG 420


----------



## Grobbins48

I wanted to post some readings that I have for a few bulbs. Once things settle in with the new scape I'll post some combo pics, but for the time being this may help some out!

All readings are taken at substrate level, with nothing else in the tank. Lights are 10 inches from the water, and the Seneye PAR meter is 16 inches from the surface of the water. Each bulb was give 5 min to warm up (though each bulb is completely new, so perhaps things could slightly change after a few days of burn in?). The PAR meter was never moved, and the same fixture was used for each bulb. Fixture is a 4ft SunBlaster Nanotech.

Some interesting results. The Giesemann Super Flora was not as strong as I expected, and the 3000K puts out quite a bit of light.


----------



## Streetwise

I made myself laugh by misreading one of these as AlgaeMax Bloom. 

It is generous of you to share your testing.


----------



## jeffkrol

Some sort of obvious observations ... 5x a bulb is close to the PAR of 1 x 5.. 
Lumen measurements of the Seneye still do not make sense..off by a factor of 2
Your K values are closer than I've ever come using LED COB's of Known values and the Seneye.. Bravo.. well except for the 10000k one.
That may be due to the decrease in sensitivity of the blue spectrum w/ its sensor.

Thanks..


----------



## Grobbins48

jeffkrol said:


> Some sort of obvious observations ... 5x a bulb is close to the PAR of 1 x 5..
> 
> Lumen measurements of the Seneye still do not make sense..off by a factor of 2
> 
> Your K values are closer than I've ever come using LED COB's of Known values and the Seneye.. Bravo.. well except for the 10000k one.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks..


Yes- fun little test to show the 5x of a bulb!

Interesting on the lumens- I thought it seemed low, good to know.

For the Kelvin, I was impressed how close they were, and the 10000k one did seem strange to me. I honestly though it would look more blue than it does.


----------



## jeffkrol

Grobbins48 said:


> Yes- fun little test to show the 5x of a bulb!
> 
> Interesting on the lumens- I thought it seemed low, good to know.
> 
> For the Kelvin, I was impressed how close they were, and the 10000k one did seem strange to me. I honestly though it would look more blue than it does.


I wrote to Seneye w/ my concerts about the LUX readings but they never wrote back.
Since my LUX meter isn't waterproof and the Seneye, I assume, is calibrated for immersion I couldn't really test it BUT it's always was off compare to other peoples measurements..
Ususally just multiply by 2.. 


Agromax didn't have a decent enough chart to "Spectra" it..


----------



## Patriot

I need to invest in a PAR meter. My set up doesn't look too bright to my eyes, but that could be due to the red, blue, and purple bulbs. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## Grobbins48

Wanted to post the current setup on my 75 gallon. This gets me ~ 105 PAR at substrate at the front 1/3 line, bit less at the back. Measurements are taken 16 inches from the surface with lights 10 inches above the surface. 

I played with a bunch of different combinations, but this gave really great overall color, and kept the reds strong, while also allowing green to pop. These plants have only been under T5 lighting for a couple of days, so I am sure more color will grow in.

Left (Back) to Right (Front):
Giesemann Super Flora
AgroMax Pure Bloom
AgroMax Pure Par
AgroMax Finisher 10,000K
Agro Max Grow 5400K










And the tank picture, with auto white balance and ISO set to 125 on my camera.











Edit to add one more combo.


Left (Back) to Right (Front):

Giesemann Super Flora

AgroMax Pure Bloom

AgroMax Pure Par

ZooMed Flora Sun

AgroMax Finisher 10,000K


----------



## burr740

Those both look pretty good. Try the second combo except replace the 10000K with the 5400K.


----------



## Grobbins48

burr740 said:


> Those both look pretty good. Try the second combo except replace the 10000K with the 5400K.


Good idea. I really do like that 5400k bulb quite a bit. Good PAR and color. I'll swap them tomorrow and see how it looks, and put a picture here.


----------



## Grobbins48

Here are a few other combinations I tried out today. All were auto white balance, besides the one with the 3000K lamp. I had to adjust to 5400K (probably a little too high) to compensate and show what it really looked like.

Giesemann Super Flora
AgroMax Pure Bloom
AgroMax Pure Par
ZooMed Flora Sun
ZooMed Flora Sun









Giesemann Super Flora
AgroMax Pure Bloom
AgroMax Pure Par
ZooMed Flora Sun
Agro Max Grow 5400K









Giesemann Super Flora
AgroMax Pure Bloom
AgroMax Pure Par
Agro Max Grow 5400K
ZooMed Flora Sun









Giesemann Super Flora
AgroMax Pure Bloom
AgroMax Pure Par
Agro Max Bloom 3000K
ZooMed Flora Sun









Giesemann Super Flora
AgroMax Pure Bloom
AgroMax Pure Par
Agro Max 6400K
ZooMed Flora Sun


----------



## jeffkrol

You know, I was, for fun, going to pick one but then remembered it's really tricky judging colors by photos..
IF one had to based on the above..One's personally out.. got this thing about purple rocks..

4 has nice yellowgreen-yellow separation compared to the others but at a cost of more yellow pinks..
4 or 5.............leaning to 5.. now just dim the yellow channel in 4.. oh wait.. (just kidding)

They all work.. 

The only one that counts is you though..


----------



## Greggz

#5 for me too.

The interesting thing will be to see the effect on the plants and if colors change a bit.

Definitely like the extra depth from the 75G. IMO, it's a significantly better presentation.

Looking forward to seeing where it goes from here.


----------



## jeffkrol

Greggz said:


> #5 for me too.
> 
> The interesting thing will be to see the effect on the plants and if colors change a bit.
> 
> Definitely like the extra depth from the 75G. IMO, it's a significantly better presentation.
> 
> Looking forward to seeing where it goes from here.



for fun... may post a bigger image when I can upload it..
4.5 and a neutralized one using the spray bar as neutral grey..Slight gamma adj as well on all.


----------



## Greggz

Cross post from my Journal.......

Well seeing @Grobbins48 recent T5HO pics made me grab some bulbs and do some comparisons.

I recently purchased a Zoo Med Coral Sun 420 Actinic. Wanted to see it compared to ATI Super Purple, and then paired with both a Powerveg 660 and a Plantmax 3000k. 

So this is only changing out the middle two bulbs. Rear bulbs are Giesemann Super Flora/Tropic, and fronts are Truelumen Flora. 

The differences are subtle, but I think I know which one I like the best. Curious as to the thoughts of others.

ATI Super Purple - Plantmax 3000K









ATI Super Purple - Powerveg 660









420 Actinic - Plantmax 3000K









420 Actinic - Powerveg 660


----------



## Grobbins48

Gregg- this is interesting to me. On my phone (Galaxy S8, no blue light filter) I lean towards 1 and 3. The reds look more pronounced and overall less purple tinted.

Interesting that I saw more of a difference between the 3000K and the 660 then the purple and blue bulbs.

Guessing the 3000K and purple give you quite a bit more PAR as well?

Curious to hear others thoughts?


----------



## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> Gregg- this is interesting to me. On my phone (Galaxy S8, no blue light filter) I lean towards 1 and 3. The reds look more pronounced and overall less purple tinted.
> 
> Interesting that I saw more of a difference between the 3000K and the 660 then the purple and blue bulbs.
> 
> Guessing the 3000K and purple give you quite a bit more PAR as well?
> 
> Curious to hear others thoughts?


You summed it up perfectly.

The 3000K vs the 660 does make a difference, and I think I like it. Purple and Actinic really no difference to speak of.

And yes, need to pull out the Seneye tomorrow, but guessing will get some type of PAR boost, as the 3000K is a pretty strong bulb.

Going to run with that combo for awhile and see how I like it in person.


----------



## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> You summed it up perfectly.
> 
> 
> 
> The 3000K vs the 660 does make a difference, and I think I like it. Purple and Actinic really no difference to speak of.
> 
> 
> 
> And yes, need to pull out the Seneye tomorrow, but guessing will get some type of PAR boost, as the 3000K is a pretty strong bulb.
> 
> 
> 
> Going to run with that combo for awhile and see how I like it in person.


I'll be curious to see what the numbers are.

I love my 3000K bulb, but have been struggling to get it in my setup. The red bulb may be what gets in the way! I'll likely leave my setup with the pure bloom now with my tank just standing up, but good to know this option exists if I want to up the PAR.


----------



## ReeferRusso

Grobbins48 said:


> Here are a few other combinations I tried out today. All were auto white balance, besides the one with the 3000K lamp. I had to adjust to 5400K (probably a little too high) to compensate and show what it really looked like.
> 
> Giesemann Super Flora
> AgroMax Pure Bloom
> AgroMax Pure Par
> ZooMed Flora Sun
> ZooMed Flora Sun
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Giesemann Super Flora
> AgroMax Pure Bloom
> AgroMax Pure Par
> ZooMed Flora Sun
> Agro Max Grow 5400K
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Giesemann Super Flora
> AgroMax Pure Bloom
> AgroMax Pure Par
> Agro Max Grow 5400K
> ZooMed Flora Sun
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Giesemann Super Flora
> AgroMax Pure Bloom
> AgroMax Pure Par
> Agro Max Bloom 3000K
> ZooMed Flora Sun
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Giesemann Super Flora
> AgroMax Pure Bloom
> AgroMax Pure Par
> Agro Max 6400K
> ZooMed Flora Sun


Hi guys... first time posting anything on this forum. 

Thanks for conducting this research and posting results in this thread as it contains some great info! 

I really like the look of #5 above and have a couple of questions based on my light. I have a 48" - 6 lamp fixture. Is there a way to achieve the same, or very similar, result as #5 using 6 lamps? If so, what lamps and layout would you recommend? Also, is there a way to achieve a similar look using only AgroMax lamps? While I realize Giesemann makes great lights and lamps, I would prefer going for a similar look with the less expensive AgroMax, or comparable, lamp(s). 

FWIW - I set up a lightly planted, community fish, standard 90g tank for my wife a little over a year ago. I'm using BDSB as a substrate with root tabs and run a FX6 for filtration which is packed with pumice. I am in the process of converting it to a heavily planted tank. It's my understanding that this may be a bit of a challenge due to the idea that it already has a lot of fish in it. 

I welcome any questions, input or advice any of you are willing to share. 

Thanks!


----------



## jeffkrol

As sort of promised.. a faked (i.e neutralized pic, #3)
Link as to not clog the thread..
http://www.qualiteitems.com/images/funpic2.JPG


----------



## Grobbins48

ReeferRusso said:


> Hi guys... first time posting anything on this forum.
> 
> Thanks for conducting this research and posting results in this thread as it contains some great info!
> 
> I really like the look of #5 above and have a couple of questions based on my light. I have a 48" - 6 lamp fixture. Is there a way to achieve the same, or very similar, result as #5 using 6 lamps? If so, what lamps and layout would you recommend? Also, is there a way to achieve a similar look using only AgroMax lamps? While I realize Giesemann makes great lights and lamps, I would prefer going for a similar look with the less expensive AgroMax, or comparable, lamp(s).
> 
> FWIW - I set up a lightly planted, community fish, standard 90g tank for my wife a little over a year ago. I'm using BDSB as a substrate with root tabs and run a FX6 for filtration which is packed with pumice. I am in the process of converting it to a heavily planted tank. It's my understanding that this may be a bit of a challenge due to the idea that it already has a lot of fish in it.
> 
> I welcome any questions, input or advice any of you are willing to share.
> 
> Thanks!


First off- welcome to TPT. I am glad you are finding this useful already. I'll do the best I can to answer the above question on the look of the lighting, however I am new to T5HO and it took some experimentation (as you read) to get here. If you are setting up this new tank/ transitioning your tank I would suggest starting a journal. It is a great way to document your journey and solicit feedback on your specific setup.

As to the lighting in picture 5, it is strong with purple/pink/red between the Pure Par, Pure Bloom, and two flora type bulbs. I was shocked actually how purple a couples of these ended up making the tank look in different combinations. The Pure Bloom helps to bring more red into the mix and the 5400K or 6500K brighten it up with some more green/ yellow (white bulb).

I would look for some feedback from others who have more experience in the area, but you may get something similar with a setup like this (no guarantee, I don't have enough bulbs or slots to test this!)

6500K (white bulb)
Pure Par (light purple/ light blue bulb)
Pure Bloom (Red Bulb)
Pure Par
Pure Bloom
6500K

You could also substitute the 6500K for a 5400K, and maybe one of the Pure Bloom for a 3000K bloom bulb. As you can see in @Greggz post above, the 3000K bulbs put out some great color, but need to be balanced out with some more blue/ white. I may play around with that in the future, but replacing a red bulb with a 3000K will bump the par quite a bit, and right now I am okay with not being on full throttle.

I suppose the main thoughts here are experimentation is what was key for me to achieve this- and I still want to play around with it more (however I have a box full of bulbs not being used, so will likely be a while before I purchase any others!).


----------



## jeffkrol

ReeferRusso said:


> I really like the look of #5 above and have a couple of questions based on my light. I have a 48" - 6 lamp fixture. Is there a way to achieve the same, or very similar, result as #5 using 6 lamps? If so, what lamps and layout would you recommend? Also, is there a way to achieve a similar look using only AgroMax lamps? While I realize Giesemann makes great lights and lamps, I would prefer going for a similar look with the less expensive AgroMax, or comparable, lamp(s).


agro Pure Bloom is theoretically similar to the Super Flora..


----------



## Grobbins48

jeffkrol said:


> agro Pure Bloom is theoretically similar to the Super Flora..


I'm not so sure the color will be similar...

Back (bottom) to front (top):

Giesemann Super Flora
AgroMax Pure Bloom
AgroMax Pure Par
ZooMed Flora Sun
Agro Max Grow 5400K

The colors are quite different, as are the PAR levels it puts out. Even the relative intensity graphs are quite different.


----------



## jeffkrol

Grobbins48 said:


> I'm not so sure the color will be similar...
> 
> Back (bottom) to front (top):
> 
> Giesemann Super Flora
> AgroMax Pure Bloom
> AgroMax Pure Par
> ZooMed Flora Sun
> Agro Max Grow 5400K
> 
> The colors are quite different, as are the PAR levels it puts out. Even the relative intensity graphs are quite different.



Yea got a bit sloppy. Was in a hurry..
Geisseman looks like a "typical" plant tube..


----------



## Greggz

@Grobbins48 now that you have been experimenting with T5HO, and have had experience with LED.....what are your thoughts?

Probably too soon for much difference in plant growth/color.....but what about general presentation of the tank to your eyes?


----------



## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> @Grobbins48 now that you have been experimenting with T5HO, and have had experience with LED.....what are your thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> Probably too soon for much difference in plant growth/color.....but what about general presentation of the tank to your eyes?


So this is an interesting question right now, and I should preface that my LED setup was budget indeed.

That being said, I did like the beamswork fixtures for what they were. I was able to achieve some fantastic growth and even decent color from the plants. I never used a dimmer, so my PAR was pretty fixed at either one or two fixtures. Those lights did put out a TON of PAR though, reaching over 150 at substrate.

The downside of these fixtures exists too though. I felt like the tank was washed out, specifically with both lights running. Not sure the CRI, but seemed lower to me with the beamswork. Not being able to specifically tune any color was fine in the begining, but as I progressed in the hobby I wanted to be able to customize. 

I am glad I used the beamswork, as I learned a lot with them, and they made lighting simple, and with the cost are a low barrier to entry for high light. 

Now to the T5HO. Too early to tell from a growth perspective (but let's be honest, I think things are looking great right now as far as new growth). The overall color that the tubes put out is absolutely fantastic. For just moving from the beamswork I cannot believe what I am able to achieve from a color perspective. 

The ability to tune both color and PAR with different bulbs is also great. I know some may be annoyed with multiple bulbs, unused bulbs, etc. but I do not mind right now. It is something new to learn as well. 

I have not experienced higher priced LED setups and I am sure there are some fantastic ones out there, but I am thrilled that have make the T5HO move. 

Maybe a long winded answer, but in summary glad the lighting has grown with my hobby!


----------



## burr740

Agro Pure Bloom is similar to Powerveg reds, not flora bulbs

Put a blue actinic with the 3000K, it will look noticeably better than trying to get the blue from a purple bulb


----------



## Grobbins48

burr740 said:


> Agro Pure Bloom is similar to Powerveg reds, not flora bulbs
> 
> Put a blue actinic with the 3000K, it will look noticeably better than trying to get the blue from a purple bulb


I know my pure bloom is a lower bulb, and assume the red power veg ones are too. The 3000K seems like a beast.

How are the blue bulbs for PAR?


----------



## burr740

Grobbins48 said:


> I know my pure bloom is a lower bulb, and assume the red power veg ones are too. The 3000K seems like a beast.
> 
> How are the blue bulbs for PAR?


Yeah the Agro bloom and PV are about the same par-wise, the 3000K will be higher.

Ive never measured an actinic by itself but its going to be close the red bulbs par-wise. Though Im not sure a meter reads the far ends of the spectrum accurately


----------



## ReeferRusso

Grobbins48 said:


> ReeferRusso said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi guys... first time posting anything on this forum.
> 
> Thanks for conducting this research and posting results in this thread as it contains some great info!
> 
> I really like the look of #5 above and have a couple of questions based on my light. I have a 48" - 6 lamp fixture. Is there a way to achieve the same, or very similar, result as #5 using 6 lamps? If so, what lamps and layout would you recommend? Also, is there a way to achieve a similar look using only AgroMax lamps? While I realize Giesemann makes great lights and lamps, I would prefer going for a similar look with the less expensive AgroMax, or comparable, lamp(s).
> 
> FWIW - I set up a lightly planted, community fish, standard 90g tank for my wife a little over a year ago. I'm using BDSB as a substrate with root tabs and run a FX6 for filtration which is packed with pumice. I am in the process of converting it to a heavily planted tank. It's my understanding that this may be a bit of a challenge due to the idea that it already has a lot of fish in it.
> 
> I welcome any questions, input or advice any of you are willing to share.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> First off- welcome to TPT. I am glad you are finding this useful already. I'll do the best I can to answer the above question on the look of the lighting, however I am new to T5HO and it took some experimentation (as you read) to get here. If you are setting up this new tank/ transitioning your tank I would suggest starting a journal. It is a great way to document your journey and solicit feedback on your specific setup.
> 
> As to the lighting in picture 5, it is strong with purple/pink/red between the Pure Par, Pure Bloom, and two flora type bulbs. I was shocked actually how purple a couples of these ended up making the tank look in different combinations. The Pure Bloom helps to bring more red into the mix and the 5400K or 6500K brighten it up with some more green/ yellow (white bulb).
> 
> I would look for some feedback from others who have more experience in the area, but you may get something similar with a setup like this (no guarantee, I don't have enough bulbs or slots to test this!)
> 
> 6500K (white bulb)
> Pure Par (light purple/ light blue bulb)
> Pure Bloom (Red Bulb)
> Pure Par
> Pure Bloom
> 6500K
> 
> You could also substitute the 6500K for a 5400K, and maybe one of the Pure Bloom for a 3000K bloom bulb. As you can see in @Greggz post above, the 3000K bulbs put out some great color, but need to be balanced out with some more blue/ white. I may play around with that in the future, but replacing a red bulb with a 3000K will bump the par quite a bit, and right now I am okay with not being on full throttle.
> 
> I suppose the main thoughts here are experimentation is what was key for me to achieve this- and I still want to play around with it more (however I have a box full of bulbs not being used, so will likely be a while before I purchase any others!).
Click to expand...

Thanks, so much, for the input! I truly do appreciate it!

Like you, I presently am running a Beamswork DA120. There are two reasons I am going to go with T5's. First one being more control over presentation and second one is to hopefully get more PAR. As you mentioned, the Beamswork is a hard-to-beat light for the money. However, being that I have a 90g (25 1/2" deep), the Beamswork struggles to get growth on the bottom of the tank. 

After looking at your suggested layout and taking the fact that the 3000K lamp puts out high PAR value, I am thinking of the following layout using all AgroMax lamps. 

6400K (I do not see a 6500K AgroMax lamp)
Pure Par 
3000K Bloom 
Pure Par
Pure Bloom
6400K

FWIW - when looking at the spectral charts between the Giesemann Super Flora and the AgroMax 3000K Bloom they appear to be incredibly close if not even the same. 

I also have some ATI Coral Plus and Blue Plus lamps that I might individually swap in to see how they look. 

Once again, thanks!


----------



## Grobbins48

burr740 said:


> Yeah the Agro bloom and PV are about the same par-wise, the 3000K will be higher.
> 
> Ive never measured an actinic by itself but its going to be close the red bulbs par-wise. Though Im not sure a meter reads the far ends of the spectrum accurately


This is a good point, and one I forgot about- the PAR meters having difficulty with the upper and lower ends of the light spectrum. I thought the blue would be close to the reds, so good to gut check that. 



ReeferRusso said:


> Thanks, so much, for the input! I truly do appreciate it!
> 
> Like you, I presently am running a Beamswork DA120. There are two reasons I am going to go with T5's. First one being more control over presentation and second one is to hopefully get more PAR. As you mentioned, the Beamswork is a hard-to-beat light for the money. However, being that I have a 90g (25 1/2" deep), the Beamswork struggles to get growth on the bottom of the tank.
> 
> After looking at your suggested layout and taking the fact that the 3000K lamp puts out high PAR value, I am thinking of the following layout using all AgroMax lamps.
> 
> 6400K (I do not see a 6500K AgroMax lamp)
> Pure Par
> 3000K Bloom
> Pure Par
> Pure Bloom
> 6400K
> 
> FWIW - when looking at the spectral charts between the Giesemann Super Flora and the AgroMax 3000K Bloom they appear to be incredibly close if not even the same.
> 
> I also have some ATI Coral Plus and Blue Plus lamps that I might individually swap in to see how they look.
> 
> Once again, thanks!


The relative intensity of the Super Flora and the 3000K are similar, but they will give off a significantly different color look to the aquarium. The 3000K being a warm white (like your typical 60W incandescent lamp), while the super flora is more of a purple look to it.

And yes, my mistake on the full spectrum bulbs- they are 6400K not 6500K.

Looks like a good setup above. I could replicate it minus the 2x Pure Par- I have some SunBlaster 6400K bulbs. Perhaps if i remember and find time I'll drop those in a see what it looks like.


----------



## jeffkrol

Grobbins48 said:


> This is a good point, and one I forgot about- the PAR meters having difficulty with the upper and lower ends of the light spectrum. I thought the blue would be close to the reds, so good to gut check that.


Depending on the sensor..Most common are Seneye and "old" Apogee w/ sensitivity shown here:
https://www.seneye.com/light/par


You could miss 1/2 the "PAR" of a 660nm light but oddly enough the "overshoot" by the Seneye should compensate for that somewhat.
Depending how deep one goes into the blue 30% loss isn't unreasonable.


https://www.apogeeinstruments.com/content/Comparison-of-Eight-Quantum-Sensor-Models.pdf
Note an odd discrepancy w/ 2 R80%B80%...

Fior the more err picky of us. Pg6.. sorry no Seneye.
Seneye being not Cosine corrected will have a larger "directional" error..




Correcting my own error, always assumed a bad choice of IR cut filter but apparently it is a photodiode issue..




> TheSQ-100 and LightScoutuse gallium arsenide phosphide photodetectors that are insensitive to wavelengths greater than about 660 nm.These quantum sensors can still make accurate PPFD measurements with calibrations for specific radiation sources.


----------



## Grobbins48

Trying out the above-mentioned combination, minus one of the Pure Par. Lots of interesting thoughts that I’ll try to document. I took all pictures at the same time and set the white balance to the K value my Seneye gave me (can be see in the snapshots below). This makes it as close to what I actually see as I can get things. The ISO is set to 100 and shutter speed set to 1/45. All taken on my Samsung Galaxy S8. Ignore the slight glair on the left side of the tank, these photos were not taken at night, but I did the best I could to eliminate other light sources. Probably would have been better done at night- another time.

Here is the testing setup for PAR readings









First off, as a baseline here is my current setup in the tank. A cooler purple look to it.








And here are the Seneye Reading for it









Next I switched to the about suggestion, but using only one Pure Par (only have 5 slots.) This is much brighter, and more powerful then my current configuration.


























Finally, based on GreggZ post with the red vs. 3000K bulb, I decided to try a 3000K in place of my Pure Bloom. Bumps the PAR a bit, and warms everything, purples are not really pulling through.


----------



## Hendy8888

I have yet to find a spot for my 2700k bulb. With an ATI blue plus beside it I liked it but not enough to keep it in. I suspect burr740 knows what he's talking about when pairing those bulbs with a 420nm , I just don't have any. My main gripe was the blue and the 2700k colour didn't look as good on the walls and floor since it's an open top tank. Ignoring the light spill the tank looked good.


----------



## ReeferRusso

Grobbins48 said:


> Trying out the above-mentioned combination, minus one of the Pure Par. Lots of interesting thoughts that I’ll try to document. I took all pictures at the same time and set the white balance to the K value my Seneye gave me (can be see in the snapshots below). This makes it as close to what I actually see as I can get things. The ISO is set to 100 and shutter speed set to 1/45. All taken on my Samsung Galaxy S8. Ignore the slight glair on the left side of the tank, these photos were not taken at night, but I did the best I could to eliminate other light sources. Probably would have been better done at night- another time.
> 
> Here is the testing setup for PAR readings
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First off, as a baseline here is my current setup in the tank. A cooler purple look to it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here are the Seneye Reading for it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next I switched to the about suggestion, but using only one Pure Par (only have 5 slots.) This is much brighter, and more powerful then my current configuration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, based on GreggZ post with the red vs. 3000K bulb, I decided to try a 3000K in place of my Pure Bloom. Bumps the PAR a bit, and warms everything, purples are not really pulling through.


Thanks for info and also for posting the results of the different lamp combos! It's really fantastic to be able to see the differences in appearance and output from one config to another. 

I think I am going to stay with the combo I listed in my previous post and see how I like it. I'll also swap out bulbs with the ATI Coral Plus and Blue Plus making different combos. I do not own a PAR meter and, frankly, my current tank is laughable compared to what I've seen here. I mean, especially when looking at a tank that won 2nd place in an International Dutch aqaurium competition. Speaking of which, a HUGE CONTGRATS to you, Joe. @burr740 

Next on my list is a CO2 setup. I am already considering using an inline Griggs reactor as I can simply throw it on an extra Rena XP4 I have in the garage. I'd ask a bunch of questions but do not want to detract from the theme of this thread. 

Thanks again!


----------



## Grobbins48

ReeferRusso said:


> Thanks for info and also for posting the results of the different lamp combos! It's really fantastic to be able to see the differences in appearance and output from one config to another.
> 
> I think I am going to stay with the combo I listed in my previous post and see how I like it. I'll also swap out bulbs with the ATI Coral Plus and Blue Plus making different combos. I do not own a PAR meter and, frankly, my current tank is laughable compared to what I've seen here. I mean, especially when looking at a tank that won 2nd place in an International Dutch aqaurium competition. Speaking of which, a HUGE CONTGRATS to you, Joe. @burr740
> 
> Next on my list is a CO2 setup. I am already considering using an inline Griggs reactor as I can simply throw it on an extra Rena XP4 I have in the garage. I'd ask a bunch of questions but do not want to detract from the theme of this thread.
> 
> Thanks again!


The combo you listed seems like a great combo to me based on my post above. Let us know how it is with 6 bulbs when you get it going. If you start running it before CO2 I would personally not run more than 4 bulbs- It is a high PAR configuration, and adding another Pure Par (in the 6 bulb setup) will probably bump another 10-15 par at substrate.

As for the other topics, start some new threads or post in a tank journal to get those conversations going!

Bump:


jeffkrol said:


> Depending on the sensor..Most common are Seneye and "old" Apogee w/ sensitivity shown here:
> https://www.seneye.com/light/par
> 
> 
> You could miss 1/2 the "PAR" of a 660nm light but oddly enough the "overshoot" by the Seneye should compensate for that somewhat.
> Depending how deep one goes into the blue 30% loss isn't unreasonable.
> 
> 
> https://www.apogeeinstruments.com/content/Comparison-of-Eight-Quantum-Sensor-Models.pdf
> Note an odd discrepancy w/ 2 R80%B80%...
> 
> Fior the more err picky of us. Pg6.. sorry no Seneye.
> Seneye being not Cosine corrected will have a larger "directional" error..
> 
> 
> Correcting my own error, always assumed a bad choice of IR cut filter but apparently it is a photodiode issue..


I have seen that graph before, but interesting read. Thanks for sharing this.

Bump:


Hendy8888 said:


> I have yet to find a spot for my 2700k bulb. With an ATI blue plus beside it I liked it but not enough to keep it in. I suspect burr740 knows what he's talking about when pairing those bulbs with a 420nm , I just don't have any. My main gripe was the blue and the 2700k colour didn't look as good on the walls and floor since it's an open top tank. Ignoring the light spill the tank looked good.


I know, I like the setup I have running now, but perhaps in the future I'll need to try one of these 420nm ones, just for fun>


----------



## Hendy8888

Been wanting to try out some red bulbs for a while so I picked up a no name 630 and 660. This led me to dig out the old bulb stash and try some combos. The white balance was adjusted to what I saw as best I could but was only on a cell phone. The tank isn't in the greatest shape but it will have to do before the L. brasiliensis gets ripped up.
#1

#2

#3

#4

#5

#6

#7

#8

#9

#10

#11

#12

#13

#14

#15


#1 Wavepoint Sunwave / Fusion Bright 630nm /ATI Aquablue special / Zoomed Florasun
#2 Fusion Bright 630nm / ATI Aquablue Special / ATI Aquablue Special / Fusion Bright 660nm
#3 Fusion Bright 630nm / ATI Aquablue Special / ATI Aquablue Special / KZ Fiji Purple
#4 Sunblaster 2700k / ATI Blue Plus / Fusion Bright 630nm / Giesemann Aquaflora
#5 Sunblaster 2700k / KZ Fiji Purple / Fusion Bright 630nm / Giesemann Aquaflora
#6 Wavepoint Sunwave / Fusion Bright 630nm /ATI Blue Plus / Giesemann Aquaflora
#7 Sunblaster 2700k / Sunblaster 6400k / KZ Fiji Purple / Giesemann Aquaflora
#8 Sunblaster 2700k / Sunblaster 6400k / Sunblaster 6400k / Giesemann Aquaflora
#9 Sunblaster 6400k / Fusion Bright 660nm / KZFiji Purple / Giesemann Aquaflora
#10 Zoomed Flora Sun / Fusion Bright 630nm / Sunblaster 6400k / Giesemann Aquaflora
#11 Wavepoint Sunwave / Fusion Bright 630nm /ATI Aquablue special / Zoomed Florasun / KZ Fiji Purple / Giesemann Aquaflora
#12 Sunblaster 2700k / ATI Blue Plus / Fusion Bright 630nm / Giesemann Aquaflora / KZ Fiji Purple / Giesemann Aquaflora
#13 Sunblaster 2700k / KZ Fiji Purple / Fusion Bright 630nm / Giesemann Aquaflora / KZ Fiji Purple / Giesemann Aquaflora
#14 Sunblaster 2700k / Sunblaster 6400k / Sunblaster 6400k / Giesemann Aquaflora / KZ Fiji Purple / Giesemann Aquaflora
#15 Zoomed Flora Sun / Fusion Bright 630nm / Sunblaster 6400k / Giesemann Aquaflora / KZ Fiji Purple / Giesemann Aquaflora


----------



## ReeferRusso

Hendy8888 said:


> Been wanting to try out some red bulbs for a while so I picked up a no name 630 and 660. This led me to dig out the old bulb stash and try some combos. The white balance was adjusted to what I saw as best I could but was only on a cell phone. The tank isn't in the greatest shape but it will have to do before the L. brasiliensis gets ripped up.
> #1
> 
> 
> #2
> 
> #3
> 
> #4
> 
> #5
> 
> #6
> 
> #7
> 
> #8
> 
> #9
> 
> #10
> 
> #11
> 
> #12
> 
> #13
> 
> #14
> 
> #15
> 
> 
> #1 Wavepoint Sunwave / Fusion Bright 630nm /ATI Aquablue special / Zoomed Florasun
> #2 Fusion Bright 630nm / ATI Aquablue Special / ATI Aquablue Special / Fusion Bright 660nm
> #3 Fusion Bright 630nm / ATI Aquablue Special / ATI Aquablue Special / KZ Fiji Purple
> #4 Sunblaster 2700k / ATI Blue Plus / Fusion Bright 630nm / Giesemann Aquaflora
> #5 Sunblaster 2700k / KZ Fiji Purple / Fusion Bright 630nm / Giesemann Aquaflora
> #6 Wavepoint Sunwave / Fusion Bright 630nm /ATI Blue Plus / Giesemann Aquaflora
> #7 Sunblaster 2700k / Sunblaster 6400k / KZ Fiji Purple / Giesemann Aquaflora
> #8 Sunblaster 2700k / Sunblaster 6400k / Sunblaster 6400k / Giesemann Aquaflora
> #9 Sunblaster 6400k / Fusion Bright 660nm / KZFiji Purple / Giesemann Aquaflora
> #10 Zoomed Flora Sun / Fusion Bright 630nm / Sunblaster 6400k / Giesemann Aquaflora
> #11 Wavepoint Sunwave / Fusion Bright 630nm /ATI Aquablue special / Zoomed Florasun / KZ Fiji Purple / Giesemann Aquaflora
> #12 Sunblaster 2700k / ATI Blue Plus / Fusion Bright 630nm / Giesemann Aquaflora / KZ Fiji Purple / Giesemann Aquaflora
> #13 Sunblaster 2700k / KZ Fiji Purple / Fusion Bright 630nm / Giesemann Aquaflora / KZ Fiji Purple / Giesemann Aquaflora
> #14 Sunblaster 2700k / Sunblaster 6400k / Sunblaster 6400k / Giesemann Aquaflora / KZ Fiji Purple / Giesemann Aquaflora
> #15 Zoomed Flora Sun / Fusion Bright 630nm / Sunblaster 6400k / Giesemann Aquaflora / KZ Fiji Purple / Giesemann Aquaflora


Wow, that's a whloe lot of bulb changing! Thanks for all the results.


----------



## Grobbins48

@Hendy8888 What is interesting to me is not just the appearance of the plants, but the black of the background. I really like 8 and 10 because of the strong black. Do people who run translucent or frosted backgrounds have an easier time with combos, as the reflections may be different?


----------



## Hendy8888

Grobbins48 said:


> @Hendy8888 What is interesting to me is not just the appearance of the plants, but the black of the background. I really like 8 and 10 because of the strong black. Do people who run translucent or frosted backgrounds have an easier time with combos, as the reflections may be different?


A couple points, the Wall behind the tank is white and whatever bulb reflects on that wall does show through the black vinyl a bit. Decreasing the exposure might get rid of a lot of the background reflection. It's there but not as noticeable. 

#8 and #10 were very difficult to get the colours to show correctly. I tried to match the greens but the reds are nowhere near that intense in the background plants. They are more orange, especially in #8. #8 the greens pop very well but it is a considerable mono green, very little differentiation between shades of green.

#10 is as close as I can (bulb availability) get to one of Tom Barr's t5 combos. I just cut it in half for a 4 bulb setup.

Can see the back wall colour in these. With my fixture a certain slot will hit the back wall due to the shape of the reflector.

In #8 the Monte Carlo, P. Erectus, Rugosa, and S. Repens should not be the same green in my opinion and it bugs me.

#8


#10


----------



## Hendy8888

#1 with the exposure decreased.


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## jeffkrol

Hendy8888 said:


> #8 and #10 were very difficult to get the colours to show correctly. I tried to match the greens but the reds are nowhere near that intense in the background plants. They are more orange, especially in #8. #8 the greens pop very well but it is a considerable mono green, very little differentiation between shades of green.



Digital cameras have a hard time w/ deep red..
Not sure if it's sensor related or the camera profile..


----------



## Hendy8888

jeffkrol said:


> Digital cameras have a hard time w/ deep red..
> Not sure if it's sensor related or the camera profile..


I have come to realize camera/white balance/exposure/screen all have a big impact in our "modern" pictures. One thing I am more aware of when looking at all the awesome internet pictures is that the real life tank does not look as good as the pictures. So much light is thrown at the tank that everything looks over exposed in real life.


----------



## Grobbins48

Hendy8888 said:


> #1 with the exposure decreased.


Yes- the exposure and ISO play a lot into getting the background to show through black. Lots of good points above.

What is the combo that Tom is running? I suppose I could find it over on his forum?


----------



## Hendy8888

Grobbins48 said:


> What is the combo that Tom is running? I suppose I could find it over on his forum?


I'm sure it changes and I haven't really searched but I noted this at some point.

1 Giesemann Aquaflora, then a 2 Zoomed Flora, then a 3 Sunwave Wavepoint, then a 4 Red Wave Wavepoint, then an 5 URI Red Sun, then a 6 Sunwave Wavepoint, then 7 Zoomed Flora and lastly a 8 Giesemann aquaflora.

I guess the whites are 12000k so the photo I referenced isn't the same after all. I think I had a 6400k in there. 

As of mid 2018 I saw a video with this reflection so it does change.


----------



## jeffkrol

> Tom barr's 120 gallon aquarium tank and 8 bulb combination
> Read the full journal here .
> 1 Giesemann Aquaflora
> 2 Zoomed Flora
> 3 Sunwave Wavepoint
> 4 Red Wave Wavepoint
> 5 URI Red Sun
> 6 Sunwave Wavepoint
> 7 Zoomed Flora
> 8 Giesemann Aquaflora


https://www.advancedplantedtank.com/light-tuning-spectrum.html

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/...e-ditched-dutch-style-new-pics-137-a-145.html


----------



## Grobbins48

jeffkrol said:


> https://www.advancedplantedtank.com/light-tuning-spectrum.html
> 
> https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/...e-ditched-dutch-style-new-pics-137-a-145.html


Thanks Jeff. I do remember seeing this on Dennis' site now that you post that.


----------



## Grobbins48

@Hendy8888 so what combination above do you like the best, not only in photo but in person? Are you going to be running the red bulbs for a while?

Still trying to find an excuse to place a BRS order for a blue ATI or Giesemann.


----------



## burr740

A good reference is the substrate. It should look true to life and not tinted. BDBS should look black, aquasoils dark gray/brown. 

Here is a 20L with too much pink in the spectrum (or not enough blue and yellow). You can know this by how the sub looks










Same aquasoil under "truer" light. Still red-heavy, you can slightly tell but its not too bad.










BDBS should look jet black underwater



















Always look at the substrate


----------



## Hendy8888

Grobbins48 said:


> @Hendy8888 so what combination above do you like the best, not only in photo but in person? Are you going to be running the red bulbs for a while?
> 
> 
> 
> Still trying to find an excuse to place a BRS order for a blue ATI or Giesemann.


I was using #1 and #9 a bit before the photos were taken but left #6 and #9 in after (I hadn't compared photos yet). I will be using the red bulbs for a bit, nothing wrong with what I had before just something different. Maybe a little less washed out in person without the 50% purple.

I kind of look at it like purple = red + blue
so by separating them you can tweak it a bit. Blue plus was too blue so I put in a aquablue special which is 40/60 white to blue I think. If too red then replace a red with a pink...and so on. 

I was surprised by the 50/50 aquablue special to red bulbs but makes sense due to the blue/white split of the ABS.

I think my next combo might include #10 or try the 12000k in it like Barr does. I was surprised I liked it as much as I did. The 12000k will add a bit of blue so it probably will help.

For reference here is the actual colour of the H'ra with #6 today.


I don't think I'm done buying different bulbs but try to get them on sale or close outs.
@burr740 your just a wizard, I tired your combo (blue plus instead of 420) and my tank doesn't turn into yours for some reason...lol granted its a 2700k not 3000k


----------



## Greggz

@Hendy8888 good to see you and @Grobbins48 geeking out with T5HO more than ME!!

It's useful to show my wife.......when she sees all these pics from you guys she begins to think I am only half nuts!!

So thanks!:wink2:


----------



## ReeferRusso

I've decided to slap together a hood for my tank. Quick question; being that it's a 90g, with about 23" from water surface to substrate, what would be a good height to have the 6 - T5's off the water?


----------



## Grobbins48

ReeferRusso said:


> I've decided to slap together a hood for my tank. Quick question; being that it's a 90g, with about 23" from water surface to substrate, what would be a good height to have the 6 - T5's off the water?


My favorite response ever: It depends!

But I don't let people use that response unless they can tell me why it depends! Your goals are really going to dictate where to go from here.

For me, I did 10 inches from the water surface with 5 bulbs (26 from substrate). One reason for this was plenty of room to work around when the hood is flipped back (in my journal you can see the hood build, back in December 2019- total canopy is 12 inches tall). 

Although we have seen in this thread that the strength of bulbs can vary greatly, the closer to the surface the stronger the light will be.

The other reason I like the 12 inch hood I made is it has good proportions with my tank and stand, meaning it looks like a piece of furniture in my home office (tank ~18 tall, hood ~2/3 of that height). 

What fixture(s) are you using for 6 bulbs? Is there a way to mount is that you can raise and lower it? That way you can go as large as you want with the hood, and can change out spacers or something like that to bump the PAR level?


----------



## ReeferRusso

Grobbins48 said:


> My favorite response ever: It depends!
> 
> But I don't let people use that response unless they can tell me why it depends! Your goals are really going to dictate where to go from here.
> 
> For me, I did 10 inches from the substrate with 5 bulbs. One reason for this was plenty of room to work around when the hood is flipped back (in my journal you can see the hood build, back in December 2019- total canopy is 12 inches tall).
> 
> Although we have seen in this thread that the strength of bulbs can vary greatly, the closer to the surface the stronger the light will be.
> 
> The other reason I like the 12 inch hood I made is it has good proportions with my tank and stand, meaning it looks like a piece of furniture in my home office (tank ~18 tall, hood ~2/3 of that height).
> 
> What fixture(s) are you using for 6 bulbs? Is there a way to mount is that you can raise and lower it? That way you can go as large as you want with the hood, and can change out spacers or something like that to bump the PAR level?


Thanks for the reply. 

By "10 inches from substrate", I'm thinking you meant 10 inches from water as you have a 75g tank.

The fixture I will be using is an old Current Nova Extreme Pro. Originally, I hadn't really planned on having the option of adjusting the height. I was planning on "sliding" it into the hood on wood rails that I would attach to either side of hood. However, since you mentioned height adjustment now, I could place muliple rails on either side, spaced at the height of the fixture or make and install an adjustable cable set up.


----------



## Grobbins48

ReeferRusso said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> By "10 inches from substrate", I'm thinking you meant 10 inches from water as you have a 75g tank.


Yes- 10 inches from the water and 26 total from substrate! Good catch, I'll correct it.


----------



## mboley

ReeferRusso said:


> I've decided to slap together a hood for my tank. Quick question; being that it's a 90g, with about 23" from water surface to substrate, what would be a good height to have the 6 - T5's off the water?


I've always thought hoods were too hard to deal with. Right now you may be underestimating the amount of time you're going to spend with your hands in your new heavily planted tank; a hood can get in the way.

Here's an alternative; a 4" wood rim around the tank parameter with the fixture hung on L- brackets mounted to the wall behind the tank. The inside of the wood rim is painted gloss white to reflect the spill-over light back into the tank. When I need to work on the tank the rim just slides out.










I had to add the fake greenery to placate my wife. This is a four bulb fixture 8.5" above the water on a 24" deep tank.


----------



## Greggz

ReeferRusso said:


> I've decided to slap together a hood for my tank. Quick question; being that it's a 90g, with about 23" from water surface to substrate, what would be a good height to have the 6 - T5's off the water?


For reference, my 6 x T5HO are 8" above the water surface, and 30" from substrate. Depending on the type of bulbs, can get anywhere from 90ish PAR to over 150 PAR at substrate. So bulb selection will have more impact than an inch or two here or there.

One note is both @Grobbins48 and myself built canopies that open fully (piano hinge). Keep in mind you will have your hands in the tank far more than you expect, so be sure you have easy access. Both of us also have small doors on the front of the canopy for things like daily feedings/dosing ferts/removing floating plant matter. 

With my set up I have three banks of two bulbs each which are each powered separately, so I can run 2, 4, or 6 bulbs at a time. Helps to be able to ramp up/ramp down and fine tune lighting. 

Good luck with the canopy and look forward to seeing what you come up with.


----------



## ReeferRusso

mboley said:


> I've always thought hoods were too hard to deal with. Right now you may be underestimating the amount of time you're going to spend with your hands in your new heavily planted tank; a hood can get in the way.
> 
> Here's an alternative; a 4" wood rim around the tank parameter with the fixture hung on L- brackets mounted to the wall behind the tank. The inside of the wood rim is painted gloss white to reflect the spill-over light back into the tank. When I need to work on the tank the rim just slides out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had to add the fake greenery to placate my wife. This is a four bulb fixture 8.5" above the water on a 24" deep tank.





Greggz said:


> For reference, my 6 x T5HO are 8" above the water surface, and 30" from substrate. Depending on the type of bulbs, can get anywhere from 90ish PAR to over 150 PAR at substrate. So bulb selection will have more impact than an inch or two here or there.
> 
> One note is both @Grobbins48 and myself built canopies that open fully (piano hinge). Keep in mind you will have your hands in the tank far more than you expect, so be sure you have easy access. Both of us also have small doors on the front of the canopy for things like daily feedings/dosing ferts/removing floating plant matter.
> 
> With my set up I have three banks of two bulbs each which are each powered separately, so I can run 2, 4, or 6 bulbs at a time. Helps to be able to ramp up/ramp down and fine tune lighting.
> 
> Good luck with the canopy and look forward to seeing what you come up with.



Thank you both for the replies and input! You both presnted some very good ideas. 

I was planning on making a fully closed, or closed as much as possible, hood incorporating a piano hinge on the front panel for access. I think I am also going to use adjustable pulleys mounting the fixture to the top panel in the hopes of adjusting PAR. Something I have to consider also is that the fixture uses two fans on one side to draw air in from holes on the opposite side which helps cool the ballasts. To accommodate for this I will have to cut strips out on either side of the hood where the fans and and holes will be. Finally, I am planning on using a couple of 120mm fans on either side of the hood to help with any cooling and condensation. One will pull air in while the other pushes air out. I may have both fans pulling air but believe the in/out model will have better results. 

The fixture has two ballasts. One ballast operates two lamps and the other operates 4 lamps. Not the most ideal for ramping up or down but it is what I have for now. The thought of placing some cheap strip LEDs for ramping has crossed my mind and I'll give this a little more thought. I am also giving the idea of mounting a cut-off switch on the front panel some thought as this will help avoid blinding myself when opening the panel.


----------



## Chlorophile

Dont have many current shots but thought I'd participate!









6500K, 3000k, RedSeaReef Spec BlueWhite 15000k, Eye Hortilux Powerveg 633

Just swapped the 3000k for a 6500K to drop the PAR but not super happy with the color, need to find a pink bulb or something. 
I really like combo #2 and #7 the OP posted.


----------



## Greggz

Chlorophile said:


> Dont have many current shots but thought I'd participate!


Hey good to see you drop back in.....it's been awhile.

Looking forward to catching up and seeing what you have been up to.


----------



## Chlorophile

Greggz said:


> Hey good to see you drop back in.....it's been awhile.
> 
> Looking forward to catching up and seeing what you have been up to.


Thank you, I appreciate that!

Been very busy and tanks got messy - just did a full teardown of my two remaining tanks and redid them and plan to stay active on here!


----------



## Grobbins48

@burr740 and @Hendy8888 let talk the blue bulbs.

I see there are a few different type of blue. Is the True Actinic the go to? If so what are the thoughts?

Figure I can grab two bulbs off BRS to hit free shipping, so curious what you would recommend. 

I have a 3000K and two different flora bulbs, and the pure bloom (660 ish), so all that is missing is a true blue (my pure PAR bulb is more purple).


----------



## burr740

I really like a 420 blue actinic in combo with a 3000K. Something about those two really compliment each other. 

Without a 3000K in the mix the actinic adds too much blue for me personally, ATI purp or Pure Par works better. 

Im talking strictly about looks


----------



## Grobbins48

burr740 said:


> I really like a 420 blue actinic in combo with a 3000K. Something about those two really compliment each other.
> 
> Without a 3000K in the mix the actinic adds too much blue (for me personally), ATI purp or Pure Par works better.
> 
> Im talking strictly about looks


Thanks Joe! I like the look going with the combo now, but a pure bloom bloom and 3000K together could give some strong reds!


----------



## Hendy8888

I've been intrigued too by the 420 but having never used one I couldn't say, the blue plus is a combo 460 and 420 combined. I have 3 laying around so most likely won't try a 420 unless I find a really cheap one.

A similar look is 10000k/ATI aquablue special/630/aquaflora which I also run for part of the day.


----------



## Grobbins48

Anyone have thoughts on the Giesemann Super Actinic? Seems super strong blue- and is listed blue hazard? Is is because it is close and maybe dipping I to the UVA range?

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/super-actinic-t5-giesemann.html

And yes, this is about looks in the tanks as Burr said above. Not taking any optimal ant growth or anything!


----------



## burr740

Never used it but probably a damn good bulb. Though color-wise, for our purposes I doubt it's much different than any other 420. It may emit some additional, slightly deeper blues than the avg 420 (judging from the spectral chart) but since none of us are growing sensitive corals we probably wouldnt notice a difference. Might though! lol


----------



## Grobbins48

burr740 said:


> Might though! lol


I love how you added this in at the end! Guess we don't know until someone tries, eh??


----------



## Chlorophile

burr740 said:


> Never used it but probably a damn good bulb. Though color-wise, for our purposes I doubt it's much different than any other 420. It may emit some additional, slightly deeper blues than the avg 420 (judging from the spectral chart) but since none of us are growing sensitive corals we probably wouldnt notice a difference. Might though! lol


I ran a powerveg 420, and then returned it for a 460, and then returned it as well.. Combination of that with the Powerveg 660 was insane, they both emit such a pure colored light that even with two 6000k bulbs it was just theatrical looking!


----------



## burr740

Chlorophile said:


> I ran a powerveg 420, and then returned it for a 460, and then returned it as well.. Combination of that with the Powerveg 660 was insane, they both emit such a pure colored light that even with two 6000k bulbs it was just theatrical looking!


Yeah I can imagine. Did you ever try a 3000K in the mix with them? It would kill a lot of that


----------



## Grobbins48

I think I found a combo that makes me happy for a while with a reasonable PAR
for the time being (90 ish at substrate).

Pure Bloom
Flora Sun
Pure Par
10K
Flora Sun

Picture of tank is quite true to colors I see


----------



## Chlorophile

burr740 said:


> Yeah I can imagine. Did you ever try a 3000K in the mix with them? It would kill a lot of that


I think so, a 3000k is my other bulb that I have around... but maybe I returned the 460 for the 3000k, now I cant remember!


----------



## DKliewer

Hello all. I’m new in here. Been following this thread for some time now. I have a farm tank started and I’m using an ATI 36” 6 bulb fixture. I really like Greggz bulb combo of Giesemann super flora, giesemann tropic, ATI purple plus, power veg 660, and 2x truelumen flora. I’m currently using 2x 6500k, 2x ATI purple plus, 2x giesemann super flora. I’m unable to get any power veg or agromax bulbs in a 36” length. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!!! Thank you all very much for this thread and forum!


----------



## Greggz

DKliewer said:


> Hello all. I’m new in here. Been following this thread for some time now. I have a farm tank started and I’m using an ATI 36” 6 bulb fixture. I really like Greggz bulb combo of Giesemann super flora, giesemann tropic, ATI purple plus, power veg 660, and 2x truelumen flora. I’m currently using 2x 6500k, 2x ATI purple plus, 2x giesemann super flora. I’m unable to get any power veg or agromax bulbs in a 36” length. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!!! Thank you all very much for this thread and forum!


There are two things to consider.........color of light and PAR. 

Different brands/colors of bulbs can produce much different levels of PAR as well. So a six bulb combo could be something like 150+ PAR at at substrate........or something closer to 100 depending on the bulbs and how high they are mounted.

IME, the Giesemann Super Flora and Tropic are two of the strongest bulbs you can get. So just keep that in mind, as they are pretty much PAR beasts.

As to color, a lot is a matter of personal opinion. Personally I don't like most 6500K bulbs, as they are too yellow for my taste. The Giesemann Tropic is less yellow than most, and provides a fuller spectrum. Even then, I would have no more than one in the mix.

You are going to have less options with 36" bulbs, but I am sure you can get a good combo. 

With what you have, I would try 3 x Giesemann Super Flora, 1x Giesemann Super Tropic, 1 x ATI Purple Plus. With the Purple Plus, you really need a red/orange bulb to balance that color. Since you can't get a Powerveg in that size, I would find a 3000K bulb and try that. A 3000k is a bit more orange than the red of the Powerveg 660.........but some people prefer that. 

As you can see from some of the posts in this thread, it's tricky and takes some trial and error to find what suits your eye. 

And maybe some others can chime in with any other ideas. I've never really searched for 36" 39w bulbs, so not real sure what is available out there??


----------



## DKliewer

3000k bulb ordered. Thanks Greg for your reply! Will post an update once received.


----------



## Slushpup

deleted


----------



## Hendy8888

Not geared towards plants but I still use a lot of these bulbs. Great comparison video between ATI/KZ/Giesemann bulbs.


----------



## tinydanger

Please forgive me if this is in the wrong spot but this thread inspired me to consider T5HO again. I have an Ecoxotic E-series LED that has a few colored RGB bulbs as well and I has hoping to supplement that fixture with 1-2 T5HOS to bump up PAR and color for the Dutch style tank I am planning. My tank is 25x18x18. Do you think this is a good option and if so, is one or two bulbs best? I was thinking purple bulbs. Thank you! <3


----------



## KeeperOfASilentWorld

Dear Planted Tank Keepers,

What do you think of an ATI 6x24W combo, 30cm to 45 cm (according to my PAR readings and spread) over a 60 cm tank (ADA 60P)? Consisting of 1-Giesemann Tropic, 2-Giesemann Super Flora, 3-ATI Blue Plus, 4-ATI Purple Plus, 5-Giesemann Super Flora, 6-Giesemann Tropic; from front to back.

I would very much appreciate all insight and criticism. 

Thank you for your help.


----------



## mboley

Here is a bulb combination I'm betting most of you haven't tried. For my dawn and dusk I run a PowerVeg 633 and a Geismann Aqua Blue Azure. I had bought both these bulbs a year ago separately and never tried them together. Neither alone looked good with my other bulbs. Turns out the AzureBlue offsets some of the heavy orange color of the PowerVeg while also making greens pop. The AzureBlue has very little red. Tell me what you think.




And with all four bulb lit, adding a Geismann Tropic and Geismann Flora. I just changed my substrate about 3.5 weeks ago to Landen. Plants are growing like never before with this bulb combo and change to an active substrate.


----------



## Greggz

mboley said:


> Here is a bulb combination I'm betting most of you haven't tried. For my dawn and dusk I run a PowerVeg 633 and a Geismann Aqua Blue Azure. [/img][/url]


I run about the same combination as an hour long ramp down in the evening. 

It's a Powerveg 660 and a Giesemann Super Purple.

Gives the tank a crazy cool colorful look in the evening.


----------



## Grobbins48

Greggz said:


> I run about the same combination as an hour long ramp down in the evening.
> 
> It's a Powerveg 660 and a Giesemann Super Purple.
> 
> Gives the tank a crazy cool colorful look in the evening.


Yes- I run a ramp up with a Purple, Flora, and Pure Bloom (red), and it is my far my favorite part of the day!

With two new blue bulbs and a purple coming soon I'll absolutely have to play around more!
@mboley tank and combo looks great!


----------



## Quagulator

Interesting video from my colleague Drew on how reflected light from plant competition can have an effect on growth habits. I'm not saying we can directly correlate this to planted tanks, but it can possibly have an effect on internodal spacing / branching / root development up the stem along with a few other "competition" style growth patterns we see in some plants. 

https://twitter.com/PRIDESEEDS/status/1270375859606650880


----------



## 25cube2019

DKliewer said:


> 3000k bulb ordered. Thanks Greg for your reply! Will post an update once received.


How that 3000K look with your ATI Purple Plus?


----------



## DKliewer

25cube2019 

Well the 3000k definitely warmed things up a bit. How do you attach a picture from a smartphone here or can you? I have rearranged the bulbs and with what I have it’s the best it has looked so far. It’s two super flora, one ATI purple, one 3000k, and two 6500k bulbs. I’m looking into getting a gel sleeve or safety guard tube in red to go over a 6500k bulb in hopes to replicate a powerveg 660 bulb seeing as they don’t offer a 36”. Greggz had mentioned trying the 3000k along with 3 super flora (I only have two) and one purple, one giessemann tropic (I don’t have yet). I’m not dissatisfied with my current combination but would like to better replicate Greggz combo. I’m going to get a sleeve of some sort in red to put over a bulb and see what happens. I cut down a red safety guard tube for a t12 bulb for an experiment but it’s not really transparent enough to get the color down to the plants I don’t feel. I also emailed EYE Hortilux that makes the powerveg bulbs and asked if they would custom make me some 660’s in a 36” length and they will not.


----------



## DKliewer

Also what’s up with the crazy letters in my posts? I’m not doing that? Thanks!


----------



## DKliewer

I have exhausted all my research into finding a solution for a red bulb. Rosco makes gel sleeves that go over the bulbs for stage and theatre lighting but the transmission of light is 55% at most for an almost pink red and as little as 8% for a dark red and that won’t work. Also the tube sleeves are for non ho bulbs only due to heat. VHT makes a spray paint that’s translucent red for tinting the taillights on your car however I feel that’s unsafe and won’t hold up to the heat long term. Led bulbs in a t5 size typically requires an electronic ballast and isn’t a drop in and go solution either. Really wish EYE Hortilux would make the powerveg in a 36” length!


----------



## 25cube2019

DKliewer said:


> Really wish EYE Hortilux would make the powerveg in a 36” length!


 Yes what is up with your crazy letters? Let me know what you come up with I am on the same boat. I using my 8 bulbs 36"( rewire remove one of the ballast) ATI light fixture from my reef tank


----------



## 25cube2019

Greggz said:


> I would try 3 x Giesemann Super Flora, 1x Giesemann Super Tropic, 1 x ATI Purple Plus. With the Purple Plus, you really need a red/orange bulb to balance that color. Since you can't get a Powerveg in that size, I would find a 3000K bulb and try that. A 3000k is a bit more orange than the red of the Powerveg 660.........but some people prefer that. /QUOTE]What order front to back would you have these 6 bulbs combo


----------



## Xavier613

Hey all! Been looking through the awesome pictures and comparisons here, have a few favorites but in a little bit of a bind decision wise. I have an LED fixture on my 75 gallon that came with the tank I purchased, but I know it's not enough alone and wanted t5 to supplement. 

It came with a Fluval Plant Spectrum 3.0 Bluetooth LED light. Will be supplementing it with a 2 bulb t5 fixture as well.
What recommendations on bulbs to complement the LEDs do you guys have? 

Thanks!


----------



## mboley

Xavier613 said:


> Hey all! Been looking through the awesome pictures and comparisons here, have a few favorites but in a little bit of a bind decision wise. I have an LED fixture on my 75 gallon that came with the tank I purchased, but I know it's not enough alone and wanted t5 to supplement.
> 
> It came with a Fluval Plant Spectrum 3.0 Bluetooth LED light. Will be supplementing it with a 2 bulb t5 fixture as well.
> What recommendations on bulbs to complement the LEDs do you guys have?
> 
> Thanks!


I'm not personally familiar with that light but its likely you need more in the red and blue spectrum. That will allow you to get color like this, which makes a nice dawn and dusk. Bulbs lit in this pic are the PowerVeg 633 and Geismann AzureBlue, as mentioned in an earlier post in this thread.


----------



## Greggz

mboley said:


> I'm not personally familiar with that light but its likely you need more in the red and blue spectrum. That will allow you to get color like this, which makes a nice dawn and dusk. Bulbs lit in this pic are the PowerVeg 633 and Geismann AzureBlue, as mentioned in an earlier post in this thread.


Great picture!

I also have a ramp up/ramp down segment with just colored bulbs.

Actually one of my favorite times to observe the tank.

And besides the plants, the Rainbow fish color very intense as well.


----------



## nntnam

Decided to make the switch recently
Here's my current 10 bulbs combo

From left to right:
1. Giesemann Aquaflora
2. Giesemann Aquaflora
3. Giesemann Aquapink
4. 2700K 
5. PowerVeg 660
6. Giesemann Actinic Plus
7. Giesemann Midday
8. Giesemann Aquapink
9. Giesemann Aquaflora
10. Giesemann Aquaflora
https://flic.kr/p/2jBxMKV

The tank
https://flic.kr/p/2jBtw24

Any comments? It's quite bright with all the bulbs being ON. I'm actually looking for some darker look. Thinking about removing one of the flora bulbs and replacing it with a red bulb. Would it be too red?

BTW found a very interesting bulb 
5200K, with large red and blue areas. 








So curious how it looks like. Total lumen is low, about 2610 lm despite that green peak, so maybe purple-ish? That deep red looks delicious >. 
Quite pricey though, about $40 apiece.


----------



## Econde

This is neat. Now I'm leaning more towards fluorescent than LED for my next setup.


----------



## jeffkrol

nntnam said:


> BTW found a very interesting bulb
> 5200K, with large red and blue areas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So curious how it looks like. Total lumen is low, about 2610 lm despite that green peak, so maybe purple-ish? That deep red looks delicious >.
> Quite pricey though, about $40 apiece.



Looks like this appox. Curve is a bit approx since x axis has no tick marks or guide points but
since KELVIN is "close" I assume peaks are close.


----------



## Greggz

jeffkrol said:


> Looks like this appox. Curve is a bit approx since x axis has no tick marks or guide points but
> since CRI is "close" I assume peaks are close.


Jeff how did you get in here?? This thread is littered with T5HO bulbs:grin2:


----------



## jeffkrol

Greggz said:


> Jeff how did you get in here?? This thread is littered with T5HO bulbs:grin2:



"Keep your friends close and................."


Anyways spectrums are spectrums..
One of my "hobbies" is mental building LED arrays to match popular "other" lights..
Need to add the lights to my data base.
Want a copy?



I dabble in MH emulation as well..
Think it's funny when people say "nobody ever matched...."
Granted some diode nm's picked are really odd BUT they exist.. 










I annoy those people a LOT more than here.. 

LED spectrum is actually better.. in many regards.


Sadly I've never had anyone "call my bluff" and build one.
I have no interest there.


----------



## nntnam

jeffkrol said:


> Looks like this appox. Curve is a bit approx since x axis has no tick marks or guide points but
> since KELVIN is "close" I assume peaks are close.


Thanks Jeff!

So according to the color code, the color would be pink or light red?! Probably close to a flora-type bulb I guess.


----------



## jeffkrol

nntnam said:


> Thanks Jeff!
> 
> So according to the color code, the color would be pink or light red?! Probably close to a flora-type bulb I guess.


Yes.. prob. light magenta..


Mercury green spike usually assures a fairly "whitish" look (RGB looks white).


----------



## nntnam

jeffkrol said:


> Yes.. prob. light magenta..
> 
> 
> Mercury green spike usually assures a fairly "whitish" look (RGB looks white).


Received the bulbs today. 
You're right. It seems to have some slight magenta cast. 
(The bulb is in the middle of two pink flora bulbs. The white one is a Giesemann midday/tropic bulb) 

https://flic.kr/p/2jF9vtC​


----------



## Nigel95

Nice thread

For a colorful layout with 4 bulbs I think I would something like Wong recommends like
2x Dennerle color plus
Ati purple plus
Dennerle special plant

However when I was creating my hardscape in the tank I didn't like the purple tint. With colorful plants in their it might be a different story and could be pleasing.

However what about a layout with only green plants and if you dig the deep greens / blueish overall look? I don't like it when greens are yellowish.

Did anyone every try to mimic the ada rgb solar look as in deep saturated greens + blueish tint on the walls? I think just plain 6500k bulbs are maybe a bit too yellow for what I want. I was looking into bulbs like this 
sylvania Aquastar T5
JBL SOLAR Natur 9000k 
Did anyone ever use those bulbs I mentioned? And what did you mix them with just 6500k or reddish bulbs like dennerle color plus maybe?

I don't see many bulb setups aiming for this. People don't like the look or t5 people usually have colorful layouts with lots of reds etc?


----------



## Nigel95

Hendy8888 said:


> Sunblaster 6400k/KZ Fiji Purple/Giesemann Super Flora/Sunblaster 6400k



Looks nice man! 



I wonder if for my taste I want a bit more blueish look and greens more 'green' not yellow (no reds plant in the layout).


Could you simply just swap a 6500k bulb for a 9000 - 10000k one? Or is it not that simple....


I do have some dennerle color plus and ati purple plus wonder if they could be swapped to mimic your kz fiji purple and Giesseman super flora.


----------



## Grobbins48

@Nigel95 the purple plus was also too purple for me. When I substituted that for a true actinic bulb the greens really began to pop!

I am running:

Giesemann flora
3000K
PureBloom (like a 660 bulb)
420 actinic
Zoomed flora










Here is what the tank looks like. Pretty true to colors I see.


----------



## Hendy8888

Nigel95 said:


> Looks nice man!
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if for my taste I want a bit more blueish look and greens more 'green' not yellow (no reds plant in the layout).
> 
> 
> Could you simply just swap a 6500k bulb for a 9000 - 10000k one? Or is it not that simple....
> 
> 
> I do have some dennerle color plus and ati purple plus wonder if they could be swapped to mimic your kz fiji purple and Giesseman super flora.


It really is that simple. You can use a 10k or even an ATI aquablue special to make it more blue. Getting reds red and greens green is easy, getting definition between different shades of red and green is the hard part. The aquablue special really makes greens pop but doesn't bring out different shades.

I would consider the purple plus the same as the fiji purple for our purposes. Not sure on the Dennerle as it's not available in my part of the world.


----------



## Greggz

Hendy8888 said:


> It really is that simple. You can use a 10k or even an ATI aquablue special to make it more blue. Getting reds red and greens green is easy, getting definition between different shades of red and green is the hard part. The aquablue special really makes greens pop but doesn't bring out different shades.


I've never liked the 10,000K bulbs. 

Not sure why, just messes with the color somehow. Especially the greens. But as always, that's just my eye.

Much prefer a purple or Actinic. Mostly due to color separation. 

But really, this is all personal preference. The best thing to do is take pics like you have done. Then you can pinpoint the differences and figure out what best suits your eye. Seeing side by side is worth the effort.


----------



## Hendy8888

Greggz said:


> I've never liked the 10,000K bulbs.
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure why, just messes with the color somehow. Especially the greens. But as always, that's just my eye.
> 
> 
> 
> Much prefer a purple or Actinic. Mostly due to color separation.
> 
> 
> 
> But really, this is all personal preference. The best thing to do is take pics like you have done. Then you can pinpoint the differences and figure out what best suits your eye. Seeing side by side is worth the effort.


I think I'm still running an old wave point 10k in one of my 4 bulb combos so it beat out the 6400k at some point. I usually would agree with you though. I am itching to get an actinic to replace my blue plus in the other 4 bulb combo at some point. 

I agree that it is 100% personal preference and I even like to change it up once and a while just for something different.


----------



## Greggz

Hendy8888 said:


> I think I'm still running an old wave point 10k in one of my 4 bulb combos so it beat out the 6400k at some point.


I should have qualified that.

I don't like 10,000k bulbs, but Mid day 6400K even less.

To my eye is very yellow. 

But again, that is just me. Others may see things completely differently.


----------



## Hendy8888

Lol! You should see a sunblaster 2700k...


----------



## jeffkrol

Nigel95 said:


> I wonder if for my taste I want a bit more blueish look and greens more 'green' not yellow (no reds plant in the layout).
> 
> 
> Could you simply just swap a 6500k bulb for a 9000 - 10000k one? Or is it not that simple....
> 
> 
> I do have some dennerle color plus and ati purple plus wonder if they could be swapped to mimic your kz fiji purple and Giesseman super flora.


You know they sell green bulbs..
Just get a green blue and red tubes.
Throw in a 6500k to complete


----------



## Nigel95

Grobbins48 said:


> @*Nigel95* the purple plus was also too purple for me. When I substituted that for a true actinic bulb the greens really began to pop!
> 
> I am running:
> 
> Giesemann flora
> 3000K
> PureBloom (like a 660 bulb)
> 420 actinic
> Zoomed flora
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is what the tank looks like. Pretty true to colors I see.



Nice colors overall, I like the greens as well here.. maybe a bit less yellow shades would be my preference. 

However in your tank I can still see a purple tint on the background and hardscape. Are you okay with this or does it mean if you try to tweak the purple tint to more neutral that you will have to sacrifice some color pop in your tank?


I also make videos of my tank when I work in it so to make it more complicated I also prefer to have my skintone accurate. But this can be done in post and wb on camera so I think I should aim that it looks like I want in real life. 



It's hard I think with research on the internet which bulb will suit me perfectly. Guess I have to buy and try. Don't you guys have a big pile of tubes that you never really use lol?


Currently I have
2x dennerle color plus and spectrum of that one here
dennerle color plus by Nigel Aquascaping, on Flickr

1x dennerle special plant and spectrum of that one here
dennerle special plant by Nigel Aquascaping, on Flickr

1x ati purple plus and spectrum of that one here
atipurpleplus by Nigel Aquascaping, on Flickr


6x 865 osram and spectrum of that one here
osram 865 by Nigel Aquascaping, on Flickr


Was planning to swap those 865 osram for Philips 965 guess the 90cri would definitely help also maybe with video work with the higher cri.. 

Spectrum of that on here
philips 965 by Nigel Aquascaping, on Flickr


While the osram 865 looks very neutral and good to me while making the hardscape I am not sure yet how it will look with plants. Heard 6500k might be a bit too yellow?


Than I had the idea to buy some to add more blue in the mix (I don't mind some blue tint on the walls but I don't like purple)

Sylvania Aquastar 10000k Spectrum of that on here
T5-SYLVANIA-AQUASTAR-10000K-2463_1 by Nigel Aquascaping, on Flickr


Another option is JBL Solar Natur 9000k (expensive bulbs but if it works....) 

Spectrum of that one
jbl solar natur 9000k by Nigel Aquascaping, on Flickr


So in short lol... have to buy bulbs and just 'try'. However which bulbs are worth a try for my goal so I don't buy ones that will never be used maybe... What in your opinion should I add to my bulb collection to try? 



My goals for next layout and t5 bulb combo



Different shades of green plants / moss
Make colors of Bucephalandra pop (greenish / blueish)
Simulans fish
No yellow tint but I don't mind a blueish tint, like that actually like ADA RGB Solar makes the green really pop and the walls are blueish.
I was thinking about to buy some Philips 965 and Sylvania 10000k ones. But @Greggz doesn't like this ones. Why you don't like the blueish tint on the walls or what does it do with the colors? You like it a bit warmer?


What @jeffkrol said looks a good idea as well a red, blue, green and white bulb. However my dennerle color is more pinkish and the ati purple plus is purple would those ones act as a red and blue one or definitely not? The osram 865 has quite some green in it. I tried yesterday a combo of dennerl color plus + ati purple plus + 2x osram 865 but was still a big purple tint visible on the seiryu stones.. 



Also tried following combo
dennerle special plant
dennerle color plus
2x osram 865 

With this combo walls looked nice but slight warmish tint not sure if I like this setup with green plants...


----------



## Hendy8888

jeffkrol said:


> You know they sell green bulbs..
> Just get a green blue and red tubes.
> Throw in a 6500k to complete


I never got around to putting a 6500 tube in but green tubes are very over powering. They also make greens pop but have zero ability to separate shades of green. 

Here are the 4 examples I have pictures for, I think adding a white might help in the 4 bulb combo. I wasn't impressed at all with the green bulb though, one day I will dig it out again to see other combos.


----------



## Greggz

Nigel95 said:


> I was thinking about to buy some Philips 965 and Sylvania 10000k ones. But @Greggz doesn't like this ones. Why you don't like the blueish tint on the walls or what does it do with the colors? You like it a bit warmer?


I probably should have qualified that blanket statement a bit.

I have swapped out bulbs loads of times looking for the "right" combination. Now that "right" combination is just what looks best to MY eyes.

I've put various combinations together and swapped a 10,000K with a Giesemann Super Purple, and an Actinic. I've always preferred the deeper richer color of the Purple and Actinic. Yes, maybe warmer is a good way to describe it.

But again, that's just me. Maybe with the right combination a 10,000K would be perfect, just haven't found it. And so much of this is personal preference. Burr prefers the Powerveg 633, I prefer the Powerveg 660. It can become a fine line and we are talking about very subtle differences.


----------



## Nigel95

I wonder if a 6 bulb combo not in terms of power but more bulbs opens up doors to create more aesthetically pleasing view. It's way too much power as my next layout doesn't have stem plants. Could dim it with something like this but just use the 6 bulbs for a nicer spectrum? 

With some sheets like this 
sheet by Nigel Aquascaping, on Flickr

Not sure if it works with the heat my ati sunpower unit generates. Maybe I could stick it between the transparant protection panel and the fixture so it's on the outside and not directly against the bulbs... Did anyone every try to dim their t5 without being able to dim on the unit itself?


----------



## Hendy8888

Nigel95 said:


> So in short lol... have to buy bulbs and just 'try'. However which bulbs are worth a try for my goal so I don't buy ones that will never be used maybe... What in your opinion should I add to my bulb collection to try?
> 
> 
> 
> My goals for next layout and t5 bulb combo
> 
> 
> 
> Different shades of green plants / moss
> Make colors of Bucephalandra pop (greenish / blueish)
> Simulans fish
> No yellow tint but I don't mind a blueish tint, like that actually like ADA RGB Solar makes the green really pop and the walls are blueish.


Your goals don't line up together very well. The green pop and blueish tint of a signature ADA light generally makes most greens the same colour. If your looking for this I'd try an ATI aquablue special or similar (white/blue) combo reef bulbs. This will have to be mixed with something warmer to tone it down though, possibly 3000k/6500k.

And yes....we probably all have a stash of t5 bulbs we don't use. That elusive perfect look might not actually exist but we sure try.


----------



## Nigel95

Hendy8888 said:


> Your goals don't line up together very well. The green pop and blueish tint of a signature ADA light generally makes most greens the same colour. If your looking for this I'd try an ATI aquablue special or similar (white/blue) combo reef bulbs. This will have to be mixed with something warmer to tone it down though, possibly 3000k/6500k.
> 
> And yes....we probably all have a stash of t5 bulbs we don't use. That elusive perfect look might not actually exist but we sure try.



Thanks for the recommendation I try that bulb in the mix. Well just wanted to give a reference of the ADA RGB Solar. I mainly bought the t5 unit because it's very nice if I want to create colorful layouts. Now I just have to find out a bulb mix that would make me satisfied with a greenish plant layout. Then I could easily swap some bulbs depending on the plants I choose.


----------



## Hendy8888

Nigel95 said:


> Thanks for the recommendation I try that bulb in the mix. Well just wanted to give a reference of the ADA RGB Solar. I mainly bought the t5 unit because it's very nice if I want to create colorful layouts. Now I just have to find out a bulb mix that would make me satisfied with a greenish plant layout. Then I could easily swap some bulbs depending on the plants I choose.


Here is an old photo using all ATI aquablue special bulbs for reference. This was temporary until new bulbs were purchased.


----------



## Grobbins48

A while back we were discussing the difference between the powerveg 660 and the agromax pure bloom. 
@burr740 i know you were one of the people who have run both the 660 and the pure bloom. I am curious, now that it has been almost a year of running a the pure bloom how you feel about each of the bulbs.


----------



## Greggz

Grobbins48 said:


> A while back we were discussing the difference between the powerveg 660 and the agromax pure bloom.
> @burr740 i know you were one of the people who have run both the 660 and the pure bloom. I am curious, now that it has been almost a year of running a the pure bloom how you feel about each of the bulbs.


Hey you forgot to mention a possible group buy!

If anyone is interested in stocking up on some Powerveg 660's, PM me.

They are getting hard to find, and I trying to work out buying a case.


----------



## burr740

Grobbins48 said:


> A while back we were discussing the difference between the powerveg 660 and the agromax pure bloom.
> @*burr740* i know you were one of the people who have run both the 660 and the pure bloom. I am curious, now that it has been almost a year of running a the pure bloom how you feel about each of the bulbs.



Whats up G? yeah I like the pure bloom, its not quite as red as the pv, and I feel like it's lost a little red after about a year but I could be imagining that. Its a good bulb

I like their Pure Par too. Its about like ATI purple color-wise, it's a little less bright though.

For the money you cant beat them. I'll be using more in the future Im sure


----------



## Grobbins48

burr740 said:


> Whats up G? yeah I like the pure bloom, its not quite as red as the pv, and I feel like it's lost a little red after about a year but I could be imagining that. Its a good bulb
> 
> I like their Pure Par too. Its about like ATI purple color-wise, it's a little less bright though.
> 
> For the money you cant beat them. I'll be using more in the future Im sure


Good to know! I still do want to try a 660 out if Gregg is able to procure them. Overall I think I have found a good setup, but as we all know, that is subject to change during a long, cold winter! 

Hmm... wonder if I can fit another sunblaster single fixture under my hood....


----------



## Quagulator

I'd be in on a pair but I'm also in Ontario like @Hendy8888 

I'll be part of the 4' club here shortly


----------



## Hendy8888

Quagulator said:


> I'd be in on a pair but I'm also in Ontario like @Hendy8888
> 
> 
> 
> I'll be part of the 4' club here shortly


Check out growlights.ca they have Fusion Bright 420nm, 460nm, 620nm, 660nm bulbs for $14.99 cdn and pretty cheap shipping if I remember correctly. Not PowerVeg's but I'm happy with mine.


----------



## Quagulator

Hendy8888 said:


> Check out growlights.ca they have Fusion Bright 420nm, 460nm, 620nm, 660nm bulbs for $14.99 cdn and pretty cheap shipping if I remember correctly. Not PowerVeg's but I'm happy with mine.


I've already got a link saved to that website  

I was going to ask if you've used them / how you like them before I ordered anything, but that answers that!


----------



## Greggz

Hendy8888 said:


> Check out growlights.ca they have Fusion Bright 420nm, 460nm, 620nm, 660nm bulbs for $14.99 cdn and pretty cheap shipping if I remember correctly. Not PowerVeg's but I'm happy with mine.


I was just searching around for red bulbs and ran across the Growlight Real Red. Is this the one? If so, color graph looks more like 633 than 660? Or are the ones you mentioned something different?

https://growlite.com/content/pdf/spec/GLL-3-T5HO-24-54.pdf


----------



## Hendy8888

Greggz said:


> I was just searching around for red bulbs and ran across the Growlight Real Red. Is this the one? If so, color graph looks more like 633 than 660? Or are the ones you mentioned something different?
> 
> 
> 
> https://growlite.com/content/pdf/spec/GLL-3-T5HO-24-54.pdf


Here are the ones I have, as far as I can tell they are knock-off powerveg bulbs. I have never run a powerveg so can't compare but the marketing comes off as such, they even have a fs+uv.

The 660 is a bit deeper red to the eye vs the 620. I don't know if you can trust the graphs but it's what they give.
https://www.growlights.ca/4ft-t5-ho-54w-specialized-grow-lights-fs-uv-420nm-460nm-620nm-660nm.html


----------



## jeffkrol

Hendy8888 said:


> Here are the ones I have, as far as I can tell they are knock-off powerveg bulbs. I have never run a powerveg so can't compare but the marketing comes off as such, they even have a fs+uv.
> 
> The 660 is a bit deeper red to the eye vs the 620. I don't know if you can trust the graphs but it's what they give.
> https://www.growlights.ca/4ft-t5-ho-54w-specialized-grow-lights-fs-uv-420nm-460nm-620nm-660nm.html


Interesting that they spike to 630 w/ IR emitting phosphors.
General "what the colors do"
https://www.cannagardening.com/effect_light_spectrum_plant_development


Not sure FR works the same way in aquatics since their world is err turned upside down..
Red being filtered out rapidly means plants seeing little red are technically "shaded".
Opposite of terrestrials.
Many effects are similar though


----------



## Hendy8888

jeffkrol said:


> Interesting that they spike to 630 w/ IR emitting phosphors.
> General "what the colors do"
> https://www.cannagardening.com/effect_light_spectrum_plant_development
> 
> 
> Not sure FR works the same way in aquatics since their world is err turned upside down..
> Red being filtered out rapidly means plants seeing little red are technically "shaded".
> Opposite of terrestrials.
> Many effects are similar though


Thanks for the link, I always enjoy when you share your lighting knowledge LED or otherwise, it's greatly appreciated.


----------



## mcmitchell8212

Hi everyone,

I'm new to the forum and wanted some advice for lighting over a 75-gallon aquarium. My only background is with an old low tech setup. I have recently gotten pressurized co2 and will be dosing EI. I've read and learned a lot while reading through this thread. I'm working with a 4 bulb fixture and seem to find it difficult to find a combo that will not only grow high demand plants but also be pleasing to the eye. I was thinking of going with these bulbs but have no clue what they would look like. I liked the look of the bulb combo mentioned by mboley post #148 but want to stay more budget-friendly.

AgroMax Pure Bloom
AgroMax Pure Par
AgroMax Finisher 10,000K
Agro Max Grow 5400K

Maybe sub one for 3000K?

Please help me out! Any recommendations or info would be great!


----------



## jeffkrol

Heavy blue w/ a cyan/green blue doping.
ATI Aquablue special would be the closest match but doesn't look that close.
Listed as 12000k-ish light

Azure blue It seems fairly unique.


> Mimic with their spectral composition the natural light conditions underwater
> Very high colour stability through premium-grade fluorescent substances
> Highlights colours of fish and corals
> Mimicking natural light spectrum at about 17.000 K
> Supporting coral proliferation
> Absolutely brilliant and natural colours













@ about $24/bulb you would probably only use on w/ 4 tubes.


Pleasing to the eye is of course relative.

Hmmm there are 2 really different spectrum for the same Azure bulb on the internet..
One doesn't "look" like this desc. at all:


> With its white/turquoise/cyan-coloured light and a colour temperature of about 17.000 K it can be used as main light source or in combination with other light colours of our POWERCHROME T-5 range.


----------



## jeffkrol

Seperate post because it's a write up of a bunch of "blue" tubes..
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WHuol0uRn2W7Jk-rxYWmtNgUF-lkY_VlUpAiNsMwME4/pub

BTW: think it solved my mystery..too bad too , the old "Azure" was pretty unique spectrum, now just eh..


> I then saw in a discussion that Coralvue was the distributor for Giesemann’s new lamp line. They reworked a few of the lamps from the old D-D line and added some new ones, increased their output, and changed the name on some.


----------



## Grobbins48

mcmitchell8212 said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> 
> 
> I'm new to the forum and wanted some advice for lighting over a 75-gallon aquarium. My only background is with an old low tech setup. I have recently gotten pressurized co2 and will be dosing EI. I've read and learned a lot while reading through this thread. I'm working with a 4 bulb fixture and seem to find it difficult to find a combo that will not only grow high demand plants but also be pleasing to the eye. I was thinking of going with these bulbs but have no clue what they would look like. I liked the look of the bulb combo mentioned by mboley post #148 but want to stay more budget-friendly.
> 
> 
> 
> AgroMax Pure Bloom
> 
> AgroMax Pure Par
> 
> AgroMax Finisher 10,000K
> 
> Agro Max Grow 5400K
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe sub one for 3000K?
> 
> 
> 
> Please help me out! Any recommendations or info would be great!


I'll need to look through my notes, but I feel like somewhere in this thread I must have posted a similar setup to what you mentioned. I do have all those bulbs. 

If you cannot find it in one of my earlier posts, maybe this weekend I can find time to put that setup in my tank and snap a few pictures for you. 

I'll do the best I can to make the picture match what my eye sees, but remember, a lot of this is personal preference. 

Also, you could just order up one of each of the agromax (that is what I did) and play around with them. They are a good budget friendly bulb, so IMO it is worth ordering all 6 or 7 and playing around with them.


----------



## ReeferRusso

Grobbins48 said:


> I'll need to look through my notes, but I feel like somewhere in this thread I must have posted a similar setup to what you mentioned.
> 
> 
> 
> Another fine example of the need for a "bookmark" option on the forum. Nearly every single time I get on here, I end up having the need for a bookmark option. I'm not sure how hard it would be to build one into the forum but it sure would be nice. Over on reef2reef I have a mountain of bookmarks with individual titles for each one for very easy referencing.
> 
> Sent from my mobile device using Tapatalk Pro
Click to expand...


----------



## rzn7z7

ReeferRusso said:


> Grobbins48 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll need to look through my notes, but I feel like somewhere in this thread I must have posted a similar setup to what you mentioned.
> 
> 
> 
> Another fine example of the need for a "bookmark" option on the forum. Nearly every single time I get on here, I end up having the need for a bookmark option. I'm not sure how hard it would be to build one into the forum but it sure would be nice. Over on reef2reef I have a mountain of bookmarks with individual titles for each one for very easy referencing.
> 
> Sent from my mobile device using Tapatalk Pro
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Each post generates a unique URL which you can bookmark in your browser - here's the URL from your post
> 
> 
> https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/11390371-post200.html
> 
> 
> Right-click over the link in the upper right of the post to grab the URL...in your post's case it's where it said 'post #200 of 200' (at the time I wrote this)
> 
> 
> This works on laptop/desktop....not sure about mobile
> 
> 
> Maybe not the simplest/most elegant but better than nuthin'
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## mcmitchell8212

Grobbins48 said:


> I think I found a combo that makes me happy for a while with a reasonable PAR
> for the time being (90 ish at substrate).
> 
> Pure Bloom
> Flora Sun
> Pure Par
> 10K
> Flora Sun
> 
> 
> 
> First off thanks for all the help so far, it's greatly appreciated. Was this the bulb comb you mentioned? If so what would you rearrange for a 4 bulb combo. I would also love more recommendations before I place an order.


----------



## Grobbins48

mcmitchell8212 said:


> Grobbins48 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think I found a combo that makes me happy for a while with a reasonable PAR
> 
> for the time being (90 ish at substrate).
> 
> 
> 
> Pure Bloom
> 
> Flora Sun
> 
> Pure Par
> 
> 10K
> 
> Flora Sun
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First off thanks for all the help so far, it's greatly appreciated. Was this the bulb comb you mentioned? If so what would you rearrange for a 4 bulb combo. I would also love more recommendations before I place an order.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, this is probably it. Just note the flora sun is not an agromax bulb and will come from a different source. Running this with 4 bulbs I would just remove one of the flora sun bulbs.
Click to expand...


----------



## ReeferRusso

rzn7z7 said:


> ReeferRusso said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grobbins48 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll need to look through my notes, but I feel like somewhere in this thread I must have posted a similar setup to what you mentioned.
> 
> 
> Each post generates a unique URL which you can bookmark in your browser - here's the URL from your post
> 
> 
> https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/11390371-post200.html
> 
> 
> Right-click over the link in the upper right of the post to grab the URL...in your post's case it's where it said 'post #200 of 200' (at the time I wrote this)
> 
> 
> This works on laptop/desktop....not sure about mobile
> 
> 
> Maybe not the simplest/most elegant but better than nuthin'
> 
> 
> 
> @rzn7z7 - thanks for the heads-up! I am aware of the bookmarking option when using the PC/full website. The problem is that is not an option on Tapatalk/mobile. I use Tapatalk greater than 95% of the time when on the site. I specifically went with Tapatalk Pro based on a strong recommendation from a friend and the idea that, IMHO, the mobile platform lacks functionality in a big way.
> 
> But, like you said, it's better than nuttin'!
> 
> Sent from my mobile device using Tapatalk Pro
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## burr740

Sharing this post from my journal. I ordered a round of new Agrobrite bulbs. HTGSupply has pretty good deals on 4-packs. Got 4 ea 3000K, the red Pure Bloom and the purple-ish Pure Par. For the money at under 10 ea, you really cant beat these, especially if you run as many bulbs as I do over several tanks. Dont worry @Greggz Im still down for the PV. 

Also grabbed two of these led T5. I dont think they've been out long, Ive never seen then before. Has 450 blue, 660 red, and 5500K. Could be a good bulb if the color looks right.










https://www.htgsupply.com/products/agroled-isunlight-led-t5-tube-bloom/

Here's the current 6 bulb on the 75 soil tank










Left, which is the front, to right: Agromax Pure Bloom, ZooMed 420, Powerveg 660, TrueLumen Flora, Wavepoint UG, 6500K. Whats missing is the 3000K. When the new bulbs arrive I'll put one of those somewhere in the middle and ditch the 6500K. Its just there for lack of a good bulb atm










Will update on the new LED bulbs...


----------



## Hendy8888

The weather outside is frightful so...played with the tank a bit. Can't say I ended up with a different combo but here are some comparisons.
1. Green-3k-blue plus-660nm

2. Green-10k-blue plus-660nm

3. Fiji purple-blue plus-aquaflora-620nm

4. Aquablue special-fiji purple-aquaflora-6400k

5. Aquablue special-fiji purple-aquablue special-3k

6. Aquablue special-fiji purple-660nm-6400k

7. Aquablue special-3k-aquablue special-660nm

8. Aquablue special-3k-aquablue special-3k

9. 6400k-aquablue special-fiji purple- 660nm

10. Blue plus-3k-aquablue special-fiji purple-aquaflora-620nm

11. Blue plus-3k-aquablue special-fiji purple-aquaflora-6400k-aquaflora-620nm

12. Blue plus-3k-aquablue special-fiji purple-660nm-6400k-aquaflora-620nm

13. 3k-Blue plus-green-3k-blue plus-660nm-aquaflora-620nm

14. 3k-Blue plus-Aquablue special-3k-aquablue special-660nm-aquaflora-620nm

15. 6400k-6400k-6400k-6400k

16. 6400k-aquablue special-6400k-6400k

17. 6400k-aquaflora-6400k-6400k

18. Zoo med flora sun-6400k-fiji purple-660nm


Note that #3 combo has a 4 bulb split between the lights and that's how the front and back colour are so different. I find green t5ho bulbs to be overpowering on any 4 bulb combo I have tried.

_Edit_
15-18 are not great pictures and don't really do the colours justice since they are washed out. My camera was on similar settings and position but the white bulbs are a brighter look and should have adjusted the exposure. 18 is a dim looking combo and still got washed out so not sure, they will have to do though. The Sunblaster 6400k is not the best "white" bulb and probably can do better with Giesemann midday. It did make the greens come alive in person.


----------



## ReeferRusso

Hendy8888 said:


> The weather outside is frightful so...played with the tank a bit. Can't say I ended up with a different combo but here are some comparisons.
> 1. Green-3k-blue plus-660nm
> 
> 2. Green-10k-blue plus-660nm
> 
> 3. Fiji purple-blue plus-aquaflora-620nm
> 
> 4. Aquablue special-fiji purple-aquaflora-6400k
> 
> 5. Aquablue special-fiji purple-aquablue special-3k
> 
> 6. Aquablue special-fiji purple-660nm-6400k
> 
> 7. Aquablue special-3k-aquablue special-660nm
> 
> 8. Aquablue special-3k-aquablue special-3k
> 
> 9. 6400k-aquablue special-fiji purple- 660nm
> 
> 10. Blue plus-3k-aquablue special-fiji purple-aquaflora-620nm
> 
> 11. Blue plus-3k-aquablue special-fiji purple-aquaflora-6400k-aquaflora-620nm
> 
> 12. Blue plus-3k-aquablue special-fiji purple-660nm-6400k-aquaflora-620nm
> 
> 13. 3k-Blue plus-green-3k-blue plus-660nm-aquaflora-620nm
> 
> 14. 3k-Blue plus-Aquablue special-3k-aquablue special-660nm-aquaflora-620nm
> 
> 
> Note that #3 combo has a 4 bulb split between the lights and that's how the front and back colour are so different. I find green t5ho bulbs to be overpowering on any 4 bulb combo I have tried.


Thanks for sharing all of the different combos! Had to have taken some time to put this all together. 

Some heavy diversity between some of the combos and a few that really stand out.


----------



## jeffkrol

Hendy8888 said:


> The weather outside is frightful so...played with the tank a bit. Can't say I ended up with a different combo but here are some comparisons.
> 1. Green-3k-blue plus-660nm
> 
> 2. Green-10k-blue plus-660nm
> 
> 3. Fiji purple-blue plus-aquaflora-620nm
> 
> 4. Aquablue special-fiji purple-aquaflora-6400k
> 
> 5. Aquablue special-fiji purple-aquablue special-3k
> 
> 6. Aquablue special-fiji purple-660nm-6400k
> 
> 7. Aquablue special-3k-aquablue special-660nm
> 
> 8. Aquablue special-3k-aquablue special-3k
> 
> 9. 6400k-aquablue special-fiji purple- 660nm
> 
> 10. Blue plus-3k-aquablue special-fiji purple-aquaflora-620nm
> 
> 11. Blue plus-3k-aquablue special-fiji purple-aquaflora-6400k-aquaflora-620nm
> 
> 12. Blue plus-3k-aquablue special-fiji purple-660nm-6400k-aquaflora-620nm
> 
> 13. 3k-Blue plus-green-3k-blue plus-660nm-aquaflora-620nm
> 
> 14. 3k-Blue plus-Aquablue special-3k-aquablue special-660nm-aquaflora-620nm
> 
> 
> Note that #3 combo has a 4 bulb split between the lights and that's how the front and back colour are so different. I find green t5ho bulbs to be overpowering on any 4 bulb combo I have tried.


You need a baseline pic, like 4 6500k bulbs.
Good job, lot of work.


----------



## Greggz

Hendy8888 said:


> Note that #3 combo has a 4 bulb split between the lights and that's how the front and back colour are so different. I find green t5ho bulbs to be overpowering on any 4 bulb combo I have tried.


Great set of pics! That is some serious work.

So which one is your favorite? I have to study them more, but first glance is 3, 10, 12.

And how are things going with the cloned Masterline dosing? Still low PO4 and K?


----------



## burr740

Here's a bulb update on the LED T5s. Gotta say I was pleasantly surprised at the color. They are strong too, 10-15% stronger on the par meter than a fresh 3000K (which is bright)






AgroLED iSunlight LED T5 Tube - Bloom | HTG Supply


Get the Bloom AgroLED iSunlight LED T5 Tube HTG Supply! Retrofit your existing T5 fixture with this advanced LED plant light technology for reduced power consumption, improved spectrum and longer life! Fast & discreet shipping guaranteed!




www.htgsupply.com




"Bloom spectrum 4′ lamps feature a combination of 450 nm blue, 660 nm red and 5,500°K full spectrum white diodes, and consume only 41 watts of power."

Here it is in a 2 bulb unit over a 50 gal, with a Geisemann Super Flora



















105 PAR at the sub. My par meter is a old Hoppy diy and I suspect not entirely accurate. Its a good reference point for me personally, but actual par may be more or less.

Here is with both LED, this is what it looks like by itself.










Par at the sub pushing 120

So decent color and powerful. I like it. I liked them so much I bought 2 of these - AgroMax 4 Foot T5 LED Bulbs - Bloom | HTG Supply

"3500K + 660nm red enhanced output for blooming plants"

Its a good bulb too, like a suped up 3000K. Its about the same strength as the iSun. Here is what one of each looks like.



















Too warm as you'd expect, needs more blue in the mix.

Here it is with an ATI Purple.



















PAR at the sub just over 100

I'll be using the 3500K in 4-6 bulb units, basically replace some 3000K with it. On the 50 gal Im running the iSun+Geisemann like in the first pic

Here's the iSun along with Agromax pure par, Truelumen flora, and Powerveg 660










Dutchy off-season 










Here's the 75 gal Landen tank withTruelumen flora, iSun, Powerveg 660, ATI purple, 3500K LED, Wavepoint UG


----------



## ReeferRusso

burr740 said:


> Here's a bulb update on the LED T5s. Gotta say I was pleasantly surprised at the color. They are strong too, 10-15% stronger on the par meter than a fresh 3000K (which is bright)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AgroLED iSunlight LED T5 Tube - Bloom | HTG Supply
> 
> 
> Get the Bloom AgroLED iSunlight LED T5 Tube HTG Supply! Retrofit your existing T5 fixture with this advanced LED plant light technology for reduced power consumption, improved spectrum and longer life! Fast & discreet shipping guaranteed!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.htgsupply.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Bloom spectrum 4′ lamps feature a combination of 450 nm blue, 660 nm red and 5,500°K full spectrum white diodes, and consume only 41 watts of power."
> 
> Here it is in a 2 bulb unit over a 50 gal, with a Geisemann Super Flora
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 105 PAR at the sub. My par meter is a old Hoppy diy and I suspect not entirely accurate. Its a good reference point to compare, but actual par may be more or less.
> 
> Here is with both LED, this is what it looks like by itself.
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> Par at the sub pushing 120
> 
> So decent color and powerful. I like it. I liked them so much I bought 2 of these - AgroMax 4 Foot T5 LED Bulbs - Bloom | HTG Supply
> 
> "3500K + 660nm red enhanced output for blooming plants"
> 
> Its a good bulb too, like a suped up 3000K. Its about the same strength as the iSun. Here is what one of each looks like.
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> Too warm as you'd expect, needs more blue in the mix.
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> Here it is with an ATI Purple.
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> PAR at the sub just over 100
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> I'll be using the 3500K in 4-6 bulb units, basically replace some 3000K with it. On the 50 gal Im running the iSun+Geisemann like in the first pic
> 
> Here's the iSun along with Agromax pure par, Truelumen flora, and Powerveg 660
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> Dutchy off-season
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> Here's the 75 gal Landen tank withTruelumen flora, iSun, Powerveg 660, ATI purple, 3500K LED, Wavepoint UG


Thanks for sharing the info and pics!

I'm impressed with those T5 LEDs. Not much more money than a regular T5, with good PAR, less wattage and much longer life. They look like winners.


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## Hendy8888

jeffkrol said:


> You need a baseline pic, like 4 6500k bulbs.
> Good job, lot of work.


You are correct, I updated my previous post with 4 more combos. Not the best pictures unfortunately but it will have to do.


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## Hendy8888

Greggz said:


> Great set of pics! That is some serious work.
> 
> So which one is your favorite? I have to study them more, but first glance is 3, 10, 12.
> 
> And how are things going with the cloned Masterline dosing? Still low PO4 and K?


My old fixture should be rewarded with some new standoffs to be honest. Anytime someone messes with their own light fixtures I seem to get an itch to change some bulbs.

My favorite is actually #10, the 6 bulb combo. I changed my mind today and left in #18 (similar to yours) for my AM combo and still running Burr's old combo for the PM. (3000k-blue plus-aquaflora-630nm) I need to pick up a 420nm to replace the blue plus though.

Macros are doing well enough to make a second batch for this month. Can't say anything rebelled except the GDA. It definitely hasn't helped the pinholes in the pinnatifida any.


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## Grobbins48

On my journey to continue to play with combinations, I did some more measuring of single bulbs in the same fashion I did about a year ago (above in this thread). Here are some results, which I found to be rather interesting. Each bulb was give 5 min to warm up before a reading was taken. The other readings from above are still valid aside from the 3000K, which was a bit stronger when measuring this time, so I added the new one below. Thee 3000K was also used for the past year also, so my guess is that either it got a bit stronger when burning in, or I did not let it warm up enough the first time I did it.

I'll be honest... I had forgotten about my testing last year, and really though the Giesemann Super Flora would be a stronger bulb.

Overall, pretty happy with how the new combo is looking right now (I'll work to get a picture later when I can), but am also excited to finally play with a Power Veg 660 and an added fixture(s) in the next couple of weeks.

This is what happens in winter time, more light, more playing! The good news is I have a great bulb assortment to keep color and lower the PAR in the summer months when I am playing outside!


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## jeffkrol

A reminder..


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## Grobbins48

jeffkrol said:


> A reminder..


This is a good point- I had actually forgotten about that and wondered why the Super Actinic was so 'low'. Makes complete sense now.


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## ReeferRusso

Grobbins48 said:


> On my journey to continue to play with combinations, I did some more measuring of single bulbs in the same fashion I did about a year ago (above in this thread). Here are some results, which I found to be rather interesting. Each bulb was give 5 min to warm up before a reading was taken. The other readings from above are still valid aside from the 3000K, which was a bit stronger when measuring this time, so I added the new one below. Thee 3000K was also used for the past year also, so my guess is that either it got a bit stronger when burning in, or I did not let it warm up enough the first time I did it.
> 
> I'll be honest... I had forgotten about my testing last year, and really though the Giesemann Super Flora would be a stronger bulb.
> 
> Overall, pretty happy with how the new combo is looking right now (I'll work to get a picture later when I can), but am also excited to finally play with a Power Veg 660 and an added fixture(s) in the next couple of weeks.
> 
> This is what happens in winter time, more light, more playing! The good news is I have a great bulb assortment to keep color and lower the PAR in the summer months when I am playing outside!
> 
> View attachment 1025532
> View attachment 1025533
> View attachment 1025534
> View attachment 1025535
> View attachment 1025536
> View attachment 1025537
> View attachment 1025538


Thanks for the work and results.

I don't know about anyone else but, since you correlated snow with tank time, I'm rooting for more storms in Upstate New York!


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## Grobbins48

@burr740 do the AgroMax LED T5 strips give off any shimmer? Curious how they look live on their own, and paired with fluorescent tubes in regards to shimmer effect. I do miss that a bit from my cheap LED days...


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## burr740

Grobbins48 said:


> @burr740 do the AgroMax LED T5 strips give off any shimmer? Curious how they look live on their own, and paired with fluorescent tubes in regards to shimmer effect. I do miss that a bit from my cheap LED days...


They do shimmer, its kinda subtle with just one but its there. The tank with 2 in a 6 bulb shimmers a little more.

Fun fact: These LED bulbs only work on fixtures with hard mounted receptacles (whatever you call it) My two cheap 24" units have the kind that slip onto the end of the bulb. That plastic housing is too small to accept the end of the LED bulb. Wish Id thought to check on that before ordering 4 of them lol


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## Greggz

burr740 said:


> They do shimmer, its kinda subtle with just one but its there. The tank with 2 in a 6 bulb shimmers a little more.
> 
> Fun fact: These LED bulbs only work on fixtures with hard mounted receptacles (whatever you call it) My two cheap 24" units have the kind that slip onto the end of the bulb. That plastic housing is too small to accept the end of the LED bulb. Wish Id thought to check on that before ordering 4 of them lol


Curious. Do you like the shimmer?

I've never liked it that much but admittedly have never seen it over my tank.

In other news went to 7 hours of full light. Likely to all 8 pretty quick.


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## burr740

I do like the shimmer and trhink its pretty cool. One of the 20Ls has a beamswork something or other, the shimmer is the best thing about it.


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## aqua_rob

Curious how long folks are running their bulbs before replacing with a fresh ones? 

My current ones have been in about a year and I'm starting to wonder about it. Figured even if I don't need them for quite awhile it might be good to have some extras on hand

I think someone early on in this thread made a comment about PowerVeg going away. I have found it impossible to order the 660 from anywhere. google'd my finger tips off and came up empty


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## Grobbins48

aqua_rob said:


> Curious how long folks are running their bulbs before replacing with a fresh ones?
> 
> My current ones have been in about a year and I'm starting to wonder about it. Figured even if I don't need them for quite awhile it might be good to have some extras on hand
> 
> I think someone early on in this thread made a comment about PowerVeg going away. I have found it impossible to order the 660 from anywhere. google'd my finger tips off and came up empty


I was able to work with the vendor as well as a local hydroponics store to source 660's, so they are still there, just not easy to come by. Need to really ask around!

As to how long to run bulbs? Some say 12-18 months, others have measured PAR and not had too much of a drop 2 years in. I suppose it depends?


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