# Starphire Rimless 75g (pics page 6)



## scottwww (Jan 22, 2012)

Wow! That will be a nice one. When I do a large tank, I want Starphire glass.


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## Brian Mc (Feb 9, 2012)

Looks like a great project, love the black silicone touch. Sounds like a really nice tank with your dimensions and the starphire. I am watching this one. roud:


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## NWA-Planted (Aug 27, 2011)

Can't wait to see it when you get it in! one of these days when I have room I am going to design a large shallowish tank that you can circle around.


I would agree probably no LEDs, t5 with the proper reflectors should work great!

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


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## madness (Jul 31, 2011)

Wow.

Awesome plan. I can't wait to follow this build and progress.


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

I'm pretty excited to see the tank at my doorstep. It's going to be a loooong month.

I'm inquiring about having a glass sump built with black silicone to match the tank. Going to get that designed asap as I don't want to delay things. Going for a versatile design that's both salt and fresh water friendly. It will have a fitted top to reduce CO2 loss and help muffle noise. Also planning a chamber to hold additional plant mass to out compete algae. 

And because journals are boring without pics, here is a shot of the Xaqua system.









The hoses are silicone and extremely flexible. I will certainly be using silicone on all canisters in the future. The internal ribbing is supposed to help silence the water flow by reducing turbulence. Not sure about the science involved, but if it works, great! The drain box in tank is only 2.5 x 3 x 2 inches.


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## Brian Mc (Feb 9, 2012)

Hmm I see why your name is prototyp3, very innovative stuff here. The skinnable stand is a very cool idea and can't wait to see the lightbar.

What kind of flora/fauna are you thinking for this setup?


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

This is awesome! I want to know how it turns out!


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

I really like the design. What is the reasoning for the outflow on the side? Is it just so it flows lengthwise? I think it look great as per the design but if their is no big downside having it in back, that would look nicer.  


Another thing would be the MH or LED's. If the Xaqua Xinout (awesome/hilarious commercial btw) works as well as that, it my get annoying to look at with a MH only setup, much less LED's. If it were me, I would want some amount of florescent so it's not too "shimmery". I have done the opposite, adding LED's to a tank with T5's and it gives the shimmer without being to much. I get a headache looking at LED tanks with a lot of surface movement personally.


That said, I think this should be super awesome. The dimensions are really nice. I am a big fan of all black as well. Design looks modern and appealing.


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

Brian Mc said:


> Hmm I see why your name is prototyp3, very innovative stuff here. The skinnable stand is a very cool idea and can't wait to see the lightbar.
> 
> What kind of flora/fauna are you thinking for this setup?


Thanks man. 

Not sure on the contents yet. I'm really battling with the idea of trying a reef finally. The colorful fish and a new challenge is exciting. But then again I fully plan to be moving again, so that's not something you can rush. And I absolutely loved keeping a large school of rummynose. I've been drawing up some ideas of a substrate free planted tank. Weird, I know.. I'll post more on that soon.



sundragon said:


> This is awesome! I want to know how it turns out!


Thanks. I'm just hoping the tank turns out how I'm picturing it.



talontsiawd said:


> I really like the design. What is the reasoning for the outflow on the side? Is it just so it flows lengthwise? I think it look great as per the design but if their is no big downside having it in back, that would look nicer.
> 
> 
> Another thing would be the MH or LED's. If the Xaqua Xinout (awesome/hilarious commercial btw) works as well as that, it my get annoying to look at with a MH only setup, much less LED's. If it were me, I would want some amount of florescent so it's not too "shimmery". I have done the opposite, adding LED's to a tank with T5's and it gives the shimmer without being to much. I get a headache looking at LED tanks with a lot of surface movement personally.
> ...


There are a few reasons for the location on the back left corner. The profile of the box and return nozzle are smaller than looking at them straight on. This way also allows me to keep the back glass totally free of tubes and clear. The reason for keeping it clear is have an unobstructed lighted backdrop. That's also why the stand has a larger footprint, so the lights can be recessed in to the stand surface.

Definitely know what you're talking about on the disco lights causing headaches. That's one reason I went with the Xaqua. The large ripples make for less individual shimmer lines. Each lighting plan will have a way to control the shimmer. If I use LEDs for supplement I have 120 degree optics, full dimming capability, and a diffusion screen if it comes to that. I definitely want this tank to be pleasing to look at. I won't let it cause headaches!


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

prototyp3 said:


> There are a few reasons for the location on the back left corner. The profile of the box and return nozzle are smaller than looking at them straight on. This way also allows me to keep the back glass totally free of tubes and clear. The reason for keeping it clear is have an unobstructed lighted backdrop. That's also why the stand has a larger footprint, so the lights can be recessed in to the stand surface.


Sounds even more awesome now.



prototyp3 said:


> Definitely know what you're talking about on the disco lights causing headaches. That's one reason I went with the Xaqua. The large ripples make for less individual shimmer lines. Each lighting plan will have a way to control the shimmer. If I use LEDs for supplement I have 120 degree optics, full dimming capability, and a diffusion screen if it comes to that. I definitely want this tank to be pleasing to look at. I won't let it cause headaches!


I don't even know much about it, I just have seen enough "disco tanks" to know it can get annoying for myself. Sounds like you put in some thought, even more awesome (I do love me some shimmer, just not too much).


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

The sump is now being built as well. I tried to design it for maximum flexibility in setup, regardless of fresh or saltwater. It is rimless with black silicone to match the display tank. Overall dimensions are 30 x 17 x 15 inches. 










Chamber A:
The display tank drains into this chamber. The water level stays constant at just over 10 inches deep. I will be using a filter sock on the drain line. I'm considering the idea of lighting this chamber and stocking with plants capable of strong nutrient uptake. At least until the plant mass in the display take establishes itself.
Otherwise this chamber can just hold equipment like a heaters and internal UV sterilizer. Another option instead of a sock is a removable "bubble tower" that the drain feeds, that could be filled with bio media.

Chamber B:
Each channel is 1 1/2 inches wide. It's main purpose is to keep the water level constant in Chamber A, and prevent bubbles from passing through. I can also use this area for sponges to aid in mechanical filtration.

Chamber C/D:
This is where the return pump is. The water level will fluctuate with evaporation here. There are two 1 inch bulkheads in the baffle separating the chambers. The plan is to pass water from C to D through one bulkhead, and feed the return pump with the other. This will create a linear flow pattern through Chamber D. There will be a removable acrylic basket made to channel this flow, so I could run media when needed.

D will also hold the CO2 reactors. The return pump is a beast, so I'd like to tee off the return line with a gate valve it to feed the reactors. That will allow me to really dial in the best flow rate for CO2 diffusion. Having the outlets of the CO2 reactors feed right into the pump will keep from out gassing via surface agitation. (which I think is over stated and exaggerated personally)


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

awesome designs. subscribed. 

if i had a sump like that, id dump a sponge filter in it somewhere running on a powerhead (cuz airpumps make nasty noise), to have as a just-in-case biomedia. if your power is out, you can attach it to a battery-run airpump.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

prototyp3 said:


> I'm not ready to start on my dream tank yet, so I'm working on this project in the meantime. The idea was to make something that felt bigger than it is, yet small enough to easily move. I also wanted minimal equipment in the tank, and for it to look as part of the design itself.
> 
> *Tank Size*
> 40 x 24 x 18 inches
> ...


Who's going to build your tank? Reef Savvy or A.G.E. or ?


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

@[email protected] said:


> awesome designs. subscribed.
> 
> if i had a sump like that, id dump a sponge filter in it somewhere running on a powerhead (cuz airpumps make nasty noise), to have as a just-in-case biomedia. if your power is out, you can attach it to a battery-run airpump.


Thanks. That's a good suggestion. It'd also double a nice drop in filter for quarantine, as I don't have one running 24/7.



audioaficionado said:


> Who's going to build your tank? Reef Savvy or A.G.E. or ?


Neither of those actually. AGE I'd use for a big tank. This size is still easy enough to manage in all glass. And Reef Savvy is so booked with orders that I couldn't agree to the wait time. I'm going with a small unknown builder from California. I saw a tank he built so I've got high hopes. If he delivers I'd be happy to share his info.


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## Booger (May 17, 2004)

Decided against a sunsun filter? Did you know there's a pimp club for those?


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## rockwood (Jun 19, 2010)

Booger said:


> Decided against a sunsun filter? Did you know there's a pimp club for those?


Ha.



Prototyp3 said:


> With the stand being built from square steel, I'll just continue it up to create the light bar. The stand will be enclosed and skinned with panels attached via magnets. That is to allow for easy removal and full access to the cabinet, and make it easy to change the color/material to match future rooms and decor.


Dude this is genius and I want to steal the idea for my own stand.


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

Booger said:


> Decided against a sunsun filter? Did you know there's a pimp club for those?


Tough decision, but probably not. This is an American built system! roud:




rockwood said:


> Ha.
> 
> 
> Dude this is genius and I want to steal the idea for my own stand.


I certainly didn't invent this, I remember seeing it a long time ago on ReefCentral if I remember right. Not sure why it isn't used more. Maybe there is some big pitfall that I'll soon find out, haha.

I know that the strong magnets can cause problems with monitors, credit cards, etc. But those would only be required for heavier panels. I'm planning on using thin sheet material for looks only.


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I've simplified the stand a bit. That surrounding ledge would have to be wider than 3 inches to fit the drain line, metal frame, and panel thickness. At that size it felt too bulky. I'm planning to have the metal frame built to fit the tank flush. That gives me some options when it comes to the panels. They can be thin to keep that flush fitted look, or thicker to give a little surround. I can also have them a bit taller to cover the bottom panel of glass or substrate.

To make up for lost space inside the stand I'm looking into having the cabinet bottom built on industrial strength slides. This would allow me to slide out the whole lot of equipment for easy access and maintenance. My plumbing is all flexible line, so slack will allow for it. I'm looking to get 12 inches of travel.


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## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

Booger said:


> Decided against a sunsun filter? Did you know there's a pimp club for those?


Reason enough to buy one  . lol


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## 2wheelsx2 (Jan 27, 2006)

Why starphire on the bottom? You can't see it. The money saved could get your more goodies.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

I can see the bottom of my tank from under the stand. It looks kinda cool seeing all the roots from the plants.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Jan 27, 2006)

audioaficionado said:


> I can see the bottom of my tank from under the stand. It looks kinda cool seeing all the roots from the plants.


Sure, but you're see dirt, not water and fish. I can in some of my stands too. But in this stand, which is custom frameless, I assume you have to have a flat base support and not a rim support, as my custom tank builder advised me on my custom cube.


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

To be honest, the cost difference was minimal. It's possible that I run this tank bare bottom, so having the glass look cohesive was worth it.

Besides it's just easier to say "all Starphire" than provide a panel breakdown. :angel:


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

Got the first wave of pictures, here's a shot of the sump drying and awaiting cleanup. Built from Starphire all around as well..


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

prototyp3 said:


> Got the first wave of pictures, here's a shot of the sump drying and awaiting cleanup. Built from *Starphire all around* as well..


Now he's just showing off. :hihi:


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

audioaficionado said:


> Now he's just showing off. :hihi:


*like*

a starfire sump? Shall we start calling you Mr. Amano?


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

prototyp3 said:


> Got the first wave of pictures, here's a shot of the sump drying and awaiting cleanup. Built from Starphire all around as well..


is the stand going to be sterling silver or 24kt gold? or perhaps your are going to go with the more modern platinum look?


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

@[email protected] said:


> is the stand going to be sterling silver or 24kt gold? or perhaps your are going to go with the more modern platinum look?


Gold and silver are passé I vote for platinum  

I'm just jelly of all the starfire


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

lol @ the gold, silver, or platinum stands. Platinum is kind of interesting actually... :icon_mrgr

The real plan is pretty boring in comparison. Right now it's just 1.5" square steel frame, either powder coated or marine epoxy finished black. I think I'm going to look into having it skinned in black glass.


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

prototyp3 said:


> I think I'm going to look into having it skinned in black glass.


That would look sick......please do it! I need to see it!

How come black glass and not starphire? Lol j/k


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

salmon said:


> That would look sick......please do it! I need to see it!
> 
> How come black glass and not starphire? Lol j/k


*like*

Seriously, black tinted glass sounds pretty damn nice. I would do that for my next tank - from the way your tank is being put together it makes my 57 gallon rimless job look like beta bowl with a plastic plant!


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## 2wheelsx2 (Jan 27, 2006)

That sump looks nicer than all my tanks other than my ADA...very envious.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Neeeeeed. Moar. Pictures.

Heh.

Every day I click on this thread to see if there are photos and bam, the suspense builds!


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## Brian Mc (Feb 9, 2012)

OK while we are waiting since we are talking about black glass here is a pic of my black glass stand, hard to get a good pic at night. During the day you can barely see the gear.


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

Bored waiting for the tank and sump to arrive.. I decided on the lights, I went with a 6x24w ATI Dimmable Sunpower. The integrated controller and ability to easily control intensity won me over.

Still kicking around stand ideas and designs. I found a good system for the pull out sump at least.

Brian MC: I think we would all agree on requesting day time pictures. Is this a store bought stand or something built?


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## zergling (May 16, 2007)

Wait, did you go with 24" ATI? Why not the 36" to get better coverage?


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

zergling said:


> Wait, did you go with 24" ATI? Why not the 36" to get better coverage?


Yes, I picked the 24" over the 36" long fixture. There are a few reasons for that:

-T5's put down such a wide blanket of light that tank-wide fixtures just spill out the ends.
-144w of highly efficient light over 75 gallons is already more than necessary. 234w would have been serious overkill.
-Aesthetics. Suspended lights look better to me when they're smaller than the tank.
-39w tubes aren't as readily available through horticulture suppliers.

Just for comparison, I ran a 4x24w fixture over a 46g bowfront that was 36" long. I mainly ran just 2 bulbs and had no problems getting full coverage, and that was with the fixture sitting on the glass top.


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## Brian Mc (Feb 9, 2012)

Amen on the 39W PITA, had to order them from the LFS as my shipped ones came in broke and I got tired of waiting. 

I was going to get you a daylight pic of my stand now but it looks the same until the sun moves around the back of the house later today and I will be gone then. 

It is just a Marineland 46gal bowfront Euro style, got the stand and tank off CL for $100. :biggrin:

Here is a stock pic from Marineland, I like the black silicone look too:


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

Hello light. I think I love you.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Jan 27, 2006)

prototyp3 said:


> Hello light. I think I love you.


Wow! I think I do too!  Congrats on that piece of art!


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

prototyp3 said:


> Hello light. I think I love you.


So the starship enterprise warp engines will be lighting your tank... Any chance you can get Scotty's voice to say "I'm givin'it all she's got"?

:tongue:


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Tom's tank sold me on the value of ATI's dimmable T5 fixtures. I'm really looking forward to how it looks over your planted tank.


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

I really wish they made this fixture in a 6' version I would be all over it.


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## y84k (May 31, 2007)

I just came across your thread... and loving it so far! Keep up the good work. Subscribed!


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## 2wheelsx2 (Jan 27, 2006)

Craigthor said:


> I really wish they made this fixture in a 6' version I would be all over it.


There are no 72" bulbs so you would not get the same lighting coverage and bulb choices as 2x 36" fixtures or a 48'' and a 24" fixture.


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## Brian Mc (Feb 9, 2012)

Very sweet, you still thinking of putting it on a bar or will you be hanging it? Either way I think you will be happy. :biggrin:


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## AaronT (Apr 11, 2004)

Craigthor said:


> I really wish they made this fixture in a 6' version I would be all over it.


Why not do 2 x 24" fixtures? That should be more than enough light. 

I have the regular (non-dimmable) ATI Sunpower 4 x 39 watt light over my ADA 90-P and I only turn all four bulbs on for 2-3 hours in the middle of the day. It is bright, even brighter than the Tek light I used to have.

I'm curious to see how those Xinout overflows work on a planted tank. It seems like too much surface movement from the videos I've seen.


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

Brian Mc: I'm going to have to make some mockups for different solutions to suspend it. I was fully expecting to just bolt it to the light bar when I ordered it. Now I'm not so sure. 

Craigthor and AaronT: Two 24's would work. Being a picky person I'd probably obsess over getting the timers calibrated exactly. I'd be willing to bet a single 48 would work, especially given the height of your 220. 
I was thinking about the Xinout output, and the plan is to go with a Tunze Silence 1073.05 return pump. It's a DC powered variable speed/output pump so I will be able to dial in the water flow precisely. It also interfaces with controllers, so I can have it temporarily ramp down for feeding or in the evening. I also like that it removes the need for extra plumbing, whether that was gate valves, or a T to dump excess back into the sump.

2wheelsx2 and sundragon: Haha, yeah it'd fit in outer space or a gallery equally well!

audioaficionado: I was checking these out in the past, but seeing Tom's tank made me finally pull the trigger. And I realized that after going with metal halides I went back to T5. And after going LED briefly I went back to T5. It just looks good and is proven, you have many bulb choices, it's energy efficient, it's more light than you could need, dimmable, etc. The _only_ down side is the lack of shimmer. And I'm going to guess that I'll get a soft shimmer with this light + Xinout surface agitation.

y84k: Thanks. I just wish the tank would arrive, I want to spam this thread with MOAR PIX :bounce:

The cooling on the Sunpower is pretty damn clever. The fixture is divided like a two story house, with the ballasts living upstairs and bulbs on the first floor. The fans blow air into the fixture. It travels left to right, cooling the ballasts, until it's redirected downstairs through holes above each bulb on the right side of the fixture. Then the air travels right to left, cooling the bulbs, and exits out a small gap between the fixture and splash shield on the left side.


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

So the shipping process has been somewhat of a pain. Apparently my tanks were built off site, and for some unknown reason had to first ship to another location before getting packed up and shipped to me. I'm told it's finally on a truck and heading my way now, but haven't received the bill of lading. I looked up the freight company and according to their general time table it should be 3-5 days.

Sunpower was missing the hanging kit. ReefGeek is sending one out immediately, no hassle. Great customer service and quick to answer any question. Got my bulbs burned in for 50 hours today so I can play with the dimming!!


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)




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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

DOPE. Can't wait.


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

Got a couple pics before the camera died as usual. Glass and silicone looks great. Issues with the holes...


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

Gorgeous glass... I'm jelly!


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

> Issues with the holes...


Wrong size, number, position?
Looks like it's drilled for an in tank skimming overflow box with pipes hanging off the end for a peninsular presentation.


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## salmon (Apr 14, 2011)

gorgeous glass :drool: that 10mm or is it thicker?

that ATI light is slick. I want. besides being dimmable, does it also do sunrise/set?


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## tcampbell (Jun 8, 2006)

Tank Size
40 x 24 x 18 inches
rimless, no internal bracing 
1/2 inch Starphire glass all around, even the bottom!
black silicone seams


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

prototyp3 said:


>


Wow. nice. I love your packages.  :thumbsup:


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## tcampbell (Jun 8, 2006)

I agree with you, smaller suspended lights look better.
Looks like it will be a great tank.


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

light = greatness

on starfire tanks. im curious why they don't post more user application and unprofessional pictures
that pictures speaks 100000000 words because there isn't thousands of dollars in lighting and effects. it shows me the true clarity. i'd buy one just frm the picture YOU took

what's wrong with the holes?


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

OK, here's the low down on the situation..

Turns out my tank wasn't built here in the US. The "builder" was actually contracting the work out to a plant in Asia. That was why shipping took so long. It was on a ship crossing the ocean to my "builder" who then put it on a truck headed to me. Trouble is they never opened the package to verify things before forwarding it to me. All the holes, display tank and sump, were drilled to larger than specified sizes. I can handle the sump mishap, it's a minor inconvenience in both time and cost with having to buy new bulkheads and fittings. But the display tank holes are a problem given that the Xaqua is very specific.

I had the hole sizes clearly labeled on the both tank and sump plans, explained in email, and listed on the actual invoice. Despite all this, they're saying I'm on my own here. No replacement tank will be made. The two options I was given: 
A) accept the tank as-is with a $50 credit (seriously) 
B) pack it up, ship it back via freight at my cost to receive a refund

Neither of those options were acceptable in my opinion. I understand mistakes happen, but I shouldn't have to foot the bill for their error. I tried to be reasonable and open dialogue in finding a resolution that worked for everyone. They didn't want to discuss it and let my deadline pass, so I filed a dispute with my credit card company today. Absolutely hilarious when the customer rep was like "They put holes in your new aquarium?!" It was pretty funny explaining to the guy how it all works. Put a smile on my face.

---

In better news I proposed to my girl of 5 years. She went from hating my aquarium hobby to trying to understand my sump setup and buying me the Sunpower, figured she was a keeper. roud:

To answer the Q's, tank glass is 12mm. The Sunpower light does do controllable fading to simulation sunrises and sunsets.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Congrats on the engagement.


That's really too bad that they drilled the wrong sized holes. I am sure in their eyes that you can fix it easily but obviously that is not the case. I am sure they could easily resell the tank so I don't get the issue on their end. It's unacceptable. Too bad because the tank is beautiful.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

This situation is no bueno! I hope it is resolved quickly with your credit card company and that you're able to get the tank you want.

Sounds like the bride-to-be has slowly been brainwashed by you. Good move, good move. Gotta get her addicted to tanking ASAP so she can't blame you for impulse fish buys.


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## vincenz (Jan 29, 2012)

Sorry to hear, but that's just awful. I'm afraid to ask which company it was. Hope it works out.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Oh, man. What an absolute crock. 
That's some kinda customer service:icon_roll:
Good luck with the dispute & congrats on your proposal!!


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## 2wheelsx2 (Jan 27, 2006)

Congrats on the proposal. I assume the answer was yes? 

That sucks about the drilling. And the work is such good quality up to that point too...such a shame.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

prototyp3 said:


> OK, here's the low down on the situation..
> 
> Turns out my tank wasn't built here in the US. The "builder" was actually contracting the work out to a plant in Asia.


Who's the builder. It would be good to know.


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## rollntider (Feb 21, 2012)

I cant wait to see this one running


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## Brian Mc (Feb 9, 2012)

Congrats on the engagement, sounds like you got a good one there. Sorry to hear about the tank, I can't believe these guys thought those options would be acceptable. Hope it gets straightened out soon to your satisfaction. If they take it back and pay shipping are you just going to find another builder? Shame they didn't get it right, it is a sweet looking tank.


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## y84k (May 31, 2007)

For the amount of $ you most likely spent on having this tank custom built and drilled I can't believe this company you are dealing with won't do a thing about it... have to agree with you, utterly ridiculous IMO. I mean even if a $25 order gets messed up a company should fix it to their best ability...


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

i am deeply saddened for you about the tank
ecstatic for you about the proposal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! good job man! i guess that means your a keeper too!
i hope the complaint gets taken care of swift and ammicably


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## tcampbell (Jun 8, 2006)

Sad, but true. How do they fix it? If it was custom built in Asia, they can't mail it back and have it built again. That would cost too much. They can't just have another one built, that would take too long, and then what could they do with this tank. The best they could do, is replace the pane of glass there. Maybe a local builder could do so. I am very surprise that had the tank built in Asia, though for cost reasons I can see so. I am in Taiwan, and a custom built 120x63x55 rimless braceless tank cost me less than $400US here, but the shipping costs and the difficulties associated with having custom built tanks, i don't understand why a company there would have it built here.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

Wow, that is some lame news to say the least. Figures, an American company outsourcing jobs to Asia, what else is new. They should have told you that from the beginning. That is not right. They are legally responsible for disclosing all of this information to your prior to purchasing it. If I was you I would file a Complaint in small claims court and let a Judge or Arbitrator decide on it. I do not think you will get far with only filing with the credit card company. You have all your proofs in your emails for the measurements you wanted and they knew what needed to be done, You did nothing wrong. I would file ASAP. I am angry for you. I am a paralegal so I have experience in these types of situations.

Please list the company you are dealing with so everyone here knows not to deal with this company in the future. Thanks and good luck. Keep us posted.

On another note, are you willing to sell the tank, maybe you can get recoup the money that way if all else fails. How much did you pay for it?


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## Riverboa (Mar 18, 2009)

Grats on being engaged! 

Sorry to hear about the tank, I was looking forward to your scape. 
Hope you'll resolved the issue to your satisfaction, good luck! 

-Tonny


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## Brian Mc (Feb 9, 2012)

Update? He got engaged and then disappeared.  Maybe she said the aquariums had to go lol. Hope u are doing OK prototyp3!


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## MrAlmostWrong (Jul 16, 2012)

Man, I read this thread and was very excited only to get to the anti-climatic ending.


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

Oh look, something happening finally! :icon_conf
1.5 x 1.5" square steel tube with a 3/16" wall in progress.









And the design I mocked up for skinning the stand.









Going to see what a plastics shop can do before looking into the wood + paint route.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Glad to hear you a finally making some progress. I was really looking forward to this build and it's been so long that I forgot about it.


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

It's starting to look like something I can put water in. I'm getting antsy without having an aquarium up for so long. This isn't the dream build I was looking for - as this thread detailed - so I'm just anxious to get it filled. 

I got an Eheim 1260 for the return pump. It's going to branch to feed the return as well as my reactors. I got all black plumbing fittings and tubing. I'm going to see if it can be rigged up to look nice with exposed guts.. Just need to get the glass top for my sump built.


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## xmas_one (Feb 5, 2010)

Drooooling over that stand!! Super clean build, I'm digging it. Do you have any updated plans on what's going in it?


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## ADAtank (Jul 26, 2011)

cant wait to see more pics! nice start


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## kylehca (Oct 15, 2011)

Subscribed...!!


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## manzpants92 (Dec 6, 2012)

amazing looking tank and stand. can't wait to see things progress for you


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

I got the ATI sunpower hung and the tank leveled. I'll add some pics soon.

I went to the plastic supply place this morning and have them CNC'ing the stand base for me. It's white high-density polyethylene plastic 1/2" thick. I expect it will look pretty nice against the frame. Hoping to get it on Friday, Monday at the latest.

The last component is the sump cover. I'm designing a black plastic cover for it that will have a removable panel in the center for access. I think it will look nice and clean with the black plumbing terminating into it. I'm not looking forward to getting raped by the CNC costs again.. :angryfire I'll probably shop around online for quotes given that it will be a more shipping-friendly size than the stand base. I'll probably draw up some acrylic media baskets for the sump as well. 

I need to figure out a way to razor blade the black silicone seams on the sump baffles.. It got a little squirrely there and it's extremely tight (1") spacing to get into. I need it looking good!


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

This is the wave action with return pump throttled down to <50% or so.
Subtle changes make a significant difference in the action, already splashed over the rim once.. 

I wanted to run it wet to see what modifications I might need to make. Reading the reef forums had me fearing all sorts of sump issues like micro bubbles or excessive noise. No bubbles and minimal noise. I was also concerned that the water level would be too low in the display tank. It sits at about 1 1/4" below the rim as-is and I'm happy with that.

xmas_one: Not sure yet. I have a good amount of seiryu and nice manzanita from Mr. Barr to work with. I think I'm going to try something a little different this time, still drawing up some ideas.


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## mountaindew (Dec 10, 2008)

This has some real potential.
I see many hours of enjoyment, viewing and caring for this system ahead.
Little more needs to be said.
mD


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

I can't wait for the enjoyment part to start!

I picked up the cabinet base today. The plastic looks quite nice against the powder coated frame. It will be a nice contrast to the all black plumbing and sump equipment.


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## Green_Flash (Apr 15, 2012)

I love these advanced reef..err planted builds.


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

I'm keeping it pretty low tech here, no fancy controllers or auto-dosing. I'm even holding off the auto top off until I see how bad the evaporation is. Trying to keep it simple with the exposed cabinet showing all equipment.

As I'm waiting for my black tubing to arrive in the mail, I pulled some rocks to see if they had enough mass to fill the deep footprint. Still debating wood vs rock. I was leaning towards driftwood in the main display, and then a rock scape in the sump display.


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## Nanoful (Dec 28, 2012)

Omg! Look at those rock? Where did u get it? I want them so badddddd


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## manzpants92 (Dec 6, 2012)

excellent


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## pianofish (Jan 31, 2010)

prototyp3 said:


> I'm keeping it pretty low tech here, no fancy controllers or auto-dosing. I'm even holding off the auto top off until I see how bad the evaporation is. Trying to keep it simple with the exposed cabinet showing all equipment.
> 
> As I'm waiting for my black tubing to arrive in the mail, I pulled some rocks to see if they had enough mass to fill the deep footprint. Still debating wood vs rock. I was leaning towards driftwood in the main display, and then a rock scape in the sump display.



I agree dude. Whether the rocks are in the main or the sump, they will look fantastic. However, I have a hard time picturing Driftwood in a sump... idk it just doesn't fit in my mind.

Your pal,
Joshua


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## Dantrasy (Sep 9, 2013)

Great build so far. Subbed.


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

Nanoful, they are Seiryu stone. I held on to a few pieces that I thought would work well in a tank this size. And a couple for a nano. (in this case my sump display)

Pianofish, yeah I'm not buying into the driftwood down there either. I do have some nice pieces that would fit, I just don't think it'd be the best choice for a predominantly downward viewing angle.

Arranging an iwagumi scape to be viewable on 3 sides is quite hard... The tricks you can use in faking depth don't quite hold up when you look at it in reverse. This is a photo and paint over of the least offensive of my attempts so far.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

prototyp3 said:


> Nanoful, they are Seiryu stone. I held on to a few pieces that I thought would work well in a tank this size. And a couple for a nano. (in this case my sump display)
> 
> Pianofish, yeah I'm not buying into the driftwood down there either. I do have some nice pieces that would fit, I just don't think it'd be the best choice for a predominantly downward viewing angle.
> 
> Arranging an iwagumi scape to be viewable on 3 sides is quite hard... The tricks you can use in faking depth don't quite hold up when you look at it in reverse. This is a photo and paint over of the least offensive of my attempts so far.


Looks good. IMO, if it looks good from 2 angles, the 3rd is likely interesting, even if it's not attractive. I haven't done Iwagumi as well as I would like but even if it's supposed to be 1 side viewable, it' usually is at least 2 side viewable due to the placement of the tank in the room. The 3rd side is often less viewable but is still interesting to look at, even if not intentional as you see all growth, etc. Obviously, if you position it to be 3 side viewable, you want it attractive on all sides but if it were me, I would sacrifice the back view if it make the front look much better.


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

I can't really say which is the front or back. One side is aimed at the door, which everyone will see when passing by or entering the office. The other side is what I'll be staring at as it's aimed at my desk. The end faces towards a couch. It's a challenge! This might be the rock arrangement I'm going with. It actually reads pretty well from all 3 sides, this is a photo taken from the vantage of my desk that I painted over. 

I might try glosso instead of HC as the carpet as I've never done that before. I'm also considering ET for how easy it was to trim into bushes or keep low laying. If I do HC I'll scatter the rocks with hydrocotyle for some height variety.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

I think that looks great. I can only vaguely see the other side in the reflection but it seems like it would look good from the other side. Plus, for an office, nobody knows about this stuff so if it looks 80% there from our perspective, its probably one of the most impressive things they have seen if they care from their own perspective. Just giving my perspective...Yes I used "perspective" a whole lot without touching on visual perspective.


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

Definitely like where your thoughts are going with the HC and Hydrocotyle especially if you can track down some of the stuff that stays really short.


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

I bought some plastic egg crate to put between the stone and the glass. I didn't want to risk the weight of the stones vs. the buoyancy of the foam. I would totally forget it was down there, which would be a disaster down the line when I started moving things.. The crate allowed for stable placement of the stone, regardless of the substrate, which was nice. Substrate is 100 pounds of Quikcrete pool filter sand.

So here it is from all 3 viewable sides. The 1st is when you enter the room, 2nd is from my desk. I like how they each have a slightly different mood or vibe, it will make me want to take in both views. I'll have to shoot an animated gif fly around of it.

talontsiawd, I know what you're saying. People outside the hobby think live plants alone are amazing in an aquarium. It's kind of cute actually!

Craigthor, I am definitely going to try and find that stuff. In the past I've always had the wild growing stuff. It was pretty random, I'd get patches of super short growth next to some NBA height stalks.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Looks very nice...from both sides.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

I had a similar issue with my 70 Gal which is a 3ft tank, but the tank was wider than most 3ft tanks and not as tall etc. Getting each side to look nice is not easy, but it came together pretty easily in my case. But I'd already used the wood piece set a couple of times and was not happy with the single or side views on the back wall, so I placed it like a peninsula.

That turned out to be easier for me. 
I'm more 3D than 2D for certain. 

Gloss is excellent and much easier over time than HC, you can really mow it to the bone, it does not uproot as much as HC and the new growth after 1-2 weeks is nice and small.

You can view some of the mowing I did on a patch that got loose in my 120. 
Amano uses it more than HC and it's a tougher plant overall.

Smaller tanks, HC has advantages, but at this size, I'd choose Gloss or maybe Monte Carlo if you trim it and do not let it turn into a 4" thick mound. 
The recovery of the Gloss after brutal mows is amazing though.

People will see it really change and think it's so easy. Hahaha......


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## Overfloater (Jan 12, 2004)

You're right Tom. IME Glosso is a brute. It takes heavy trimming well and growth is quick. Its not easy to kill, that's for sure. I think it will be a good look for this tank.


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## lamiskool (Jul 1, 2011)

Great start, love the hardscape so far


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Overfloater said:


> You're right Tom. IME Glosso is a brute. It takes heavy trimming well and growth is quick. Its not easy to kill, that's for sure. I think it will be a good look for this tank.


I've seen it melt in tanks where they let it go too long and over grow and they did not adjust the CO2, when you have say 10X more biomass, the CO2 and other nutrient uptake will eat itself out of house and home, it's also less light demanding than HC and a number of others. Belem grass is very nice also, easy and has a nice look. 

Note, you can plant the gloss around the rocks and have it fuse with Belem grass (or use HC instead of Gloss, which will be a little less aggressive than the Gloss if you want to fuse and mix two types of foreground plants). Both look pretty good IME.

Most smaller pennyworts match well as does Starougyne among the rocks.
Rocks crusted with Mini pellia would give a nice aged effect.
You can do DSM with mosses and liverworts on stones if you use a dilute fert spray and mist them daily, some folks cut them up into very small bits and then paint brush it onto rocks or wood.

After about 2-3 weeks, it's well attached, then add back to the tank or flood the tank etc.


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

It sounds like glosso it is. I'll have to hunt the Swap n Shop looking for someone doing a big hack job on it. 

I had to make some edits to the plumbing. This city has incredibly hard water and was leaving a big band of deposits due to the rolling waves. Not a good look on the rimless. The overflow was quiet enough in the tank (no gurgling) and in the sump (no splashing or excessive bubbles) but the water rushing down the tubing was a little too much. 

I ended up modifying it to work like a herbie system. One 5/8" drain (was the return line) running on full siphon, with an open air 1 1/2" backup drain line. I have a low profile intake screen for the siphon line to protect livestock, but it also pulls a mean vortex to clean surface scum in spot duty. The up turned pipe skims the surface a bit as well. I'm thinking adventurous fish will use it as a water slide. :icon_smil

There is absolutely no noise, which is what I wanted. Using a siphon will prevent excessive off gassing of CO2 as there is no turbulence. The emergency drain also gives me some piece of mind in case of a blockage. The down side is I'll have to run a return over the edge. Shouldn't be too much of an eyesore, as I'll run it along with the drain lines. The PVC fittings will be filed down smooth and painted black to help them disappear.


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## volatile (Feb 13, 2007)

Hey prototyp3 it's been 3 months. How's the tank doing? Did you plant and stock it yet?


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## Green_Flash (Apr 15, 2012)

Whatever happened to your 120-H?


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## tizzite (Mar 28, 2010)

This scape is crazy. There's something interesting on all sides. Very cool. That rock is insane.


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## tizzite (Mar 28, 2010)

btw, what dimensions is your dream tank?


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

I'm happy to be reviving this thread. I almost sold the setup, but ultimately decided against it. Things were super busy, but I figure the calming powers of an aquarium were worth getting it going. 

Put together a new hardscape, still deciding if I'm going to carpet it or go real low maintenance and do a fern island arrangement. It's view-able from multiple sides again, but at least the back is against a wall which made things easier.


Green_Flash:
The 120-H was sold. It was a nice tank, but it made me wary how much the glass bowed on it.

tizzite:
I've always wanted a long and low tank, something awkwardly awesome like 10 x 1.5 x 1.5 footer to dominate a wall.


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## boxhead1990 (Aug 29, 2011)

Looks like a good start

Sent from my D6653 using Tapatalk


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## Couesfanatic (Sep 28, 2009)

Great scape. I say a full belem hair grass carpet.


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## noseprint (Jun 29, 2015)

that is a gorgeous hardscape


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

Got the plumbing bits for the naked overflow. The vertical strainer runs at a full siphon through a 1/2" drain line. The horizontal strainer is an emergency drain that feeds a 1" drain line.


Speaking of lines, let me share with you all best upgrade ever.. Latex tubing. It's _extremely_ flexible, has no memory, and springs back to shape after being pulled off a barb fitting. Well worth the additional expense. I won't be going back to vinyl ever.


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

Switched back to the Xaqua drain. I figure there's no way I'm plugging a 1.5 inch open line down to the sump. And if I did, there isn't enough water in the return chamber to flood the display tank. Worst case is my pump runs dry and dies. This way my return doesn't run over the edge.

Attached is a pretty poor picture of the initial planting last month. Needle leaf in the back, Bolbitis on the rocks, Trident in the crevices, random stuff scattered around the sand. I think I'm going to transition to just Bolbitis up top, with Hygrophila Pinnatifida below.

Just put in 100 rummynose, maybe that was a tad too many... I'm thinking 60ish would've looked better. I'll get pics when the lights come on if they're feeling adventurous and want to pose for me.


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## Oghorille (Jul 1, 2015)

Pics of the rummies there please!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

I'll get a better picture up soon.. Out of 100, 99 arrived alive. A dozen came with some white fungus. Over the last 9-10 days I've lost 3. I expected worse, especially having been out of the country for the last week. They've colored up nicely and are gaining weight, so hopefully I won't lose too may more.


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## Chasintrades (Oct 11, 2009)

Fantastic! I love it. Only tiny critique - the plant to the far left, I would love to see what it looks like without such high growth. It would make the center of the tank pop a bit more. But really brilliant, kudos.


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

Chasintrades said:


> Fantastic! I love it. Only tiny critique - the plant to the far left, I would love to see what it looks like without such high growth. It would make the center of the tank pop a bit more. But really brilliant, kudos.


That guy will be removed along with some of the other random plants surrounding the rocks. I needed some faster growers than just the ferns to stay ahead of the algae when kicking off this tank.


Here is the current sump arrangement that I think I'm settling on. (I'll be matching the hoses and tidying up the cords, etc) 

In the first chamber the 1 1/2" free flowing drain is 99% silent. The sweeping curve keeps the water from getting chaotic, so no gurgling and no bubbles. It also tumbles the particles of the Purigen bag like a Phosban reactor does. I removed the socks entirely, as it was a maintenance chore. The black sponge does the job, looks better, and is faster and easier to clean.

The second chamber holds my mech/bio media. 5 inches of foam, 1 inch layer of Eheim Substrat Pro in a bag for easy maintenance. At the bottom of this chamber is two 1 inch drains leading to the last chamber. If the media were ever to clog, it will just spill over that last baffle.

The return chamber is the heater, pump and CO2 reactor. With the high head pressure of the pump I'm avoiding any CO2 pockets in the reactor which is great. I'll also be putting the micro auto top off sensor in this chamber, just need to determine the correct reservoir container... I requested some quotes on having a custom 40 x 3 1/3 x 30 inches white acrylic container built. It would basically become a "back" to the stand, sitting between it and the wall. I'm also considering having one built to sit over the media chamber, as that won't need to be accessed very often at all.

Also ordered a frosted white film for the back glass, along with a RGB LEDs for a lighted backdrop.


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

So this tank was neglected for a year. I decided to gut 95% of it and reboot for the new year.

Tried LEDs over the tank, still hate the look. Now LEDs _*behind*_ the tank, amazing. Feels like a magazine photo. The bounced light helps show the colors and translucency of the leaves.

Not sure what I'm going to do for plants this time around. Bolbitis grew waaaay too fast for me. Going to think on it for a bit.


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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

very nice tank and scapes


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## nyskiffie (Mar 23, 2016)

More details of the LEDs behind the tank? I love that shot!


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

It's a coming back to life update.

The tank was taken down after the lights went haywire. The controller had a mind of it's own and 2 out of 3 ballasts died. I was annoyed with it so the tank sat empty for years. Working from home made me want to start up an office tank again. So I began cleaning her up. 










I wanted to keep things simple, so I decided to try a hardscape only tank. I put down plastic egg crate to avoid slippage. I used some rock to find key combinations that'd fit the tank size.










I really enjoyed the formation on the left, it looked nice from the variety of viewing angles this tank provides. I broke out the hammer and started to work the awkward pieces into something better. 










This is the formation I arrived at, as seen from from the main living space. I added white pool filter sand with zero slope. I was considering a white plastic bottom for a different vibe. I think this was a good compromise in still having a stark flat surface, but feeling a bit more natural.










Filled her up. The pond tubing of drain line snapped.. That was fun. I guess years of sitting in place made it brittle. I moved the back panel LED (Ecoxotic) light up top. The single 24" T5 wasn't cutting it visually, even with wanting to minimize the light strength. I need to replace the small LED (Current USA) light that's temporarily back there with something larger in size.

I'm just thrilled to have fixed the noise and evaporation challenges of pushing 600gph through a single drain. Now that I'm looking at some tank journals here, I'm thinking about plants... 🤣


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## puopg (Sep 16, 2012)

Niceeee, I like the hardscape! So much power on the left.


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## minorhero (Mar 28, 2019)

Awesome! 

What are the covers on the sump? 

What are you thinking about regarding stocking and plant list?


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## trailsnale (Dec 2, 2009)

i was subbed from years ago, nice to see a revival. enjoy your tanks.


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

Thanks all. It's nice to be back in the hobby.

The sump covers I cut from a tailgate panel for a Tacoma. Weird, I know. I had ordered some parts for my Jeep, and they accidentally included that part in the delivery. It was too big for them to do a return, so they told me to keep it. It's 1/2" thick food safe plastic, so it ended up being useful.

Stocking is still up in the air. I really liked pygmy corys - great personality and decent schooling - and I think they'd enjoy all the nooks and crannies to explore. Their small size would also keep the sense of scale. I am probably going to add shrimp, so they're good on that front as well. Another idea was bloodfin tetras. They're supposed to school nicely, and I think their coloration is pretty nice - interesting without being overpowering. Speaking of overpowering.. those Glofish would kind of fit the stark alien looking landscape.. 
My check boxes for ideal inhabitants are something that schools, isn't notorious for jumping, wouldn't feel absolutely lost without plants, and wouldn't decimate a shrimp population.

No plants in the plans now, trying to keep it simple. (Would this get my exiled from the site? Haha) Unless floaters in a sump compartment to help with nutrient export counts? I can't say I haven't mentally pictured bolbitis perched on the left formation, with some anubias petite sprinkled into the crevices underneath.


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## LidijaPN (12 mo ago)

superbly cool, I wanna see what it grows into this time around!!


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## Virtus (11 mo ago)

I love the "mountain" on the left! What kind of stone are you using? I look forward to following along.


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## prototyp3 (Dec 5, 2007)

I promise to try updating more often than once per 5 years!

This is seiryu stone, but has been sourced from multiple places. I kept acquiring it knowing it'd become a great excuse to start another tank.

And an update: we have life! I ordered 24 pygmy corydoras from Aqua Huna. This was acclimation day with the lights off. I can't help but smile whenever I see those little wigglers sweeping rocks or grouping up and doing laps. They certainly have more personality than you'd think should fit into those little bodies. I'm also trying those big weird leaves that are supposed to provide some health benefits. The fish look healthy so far, it must working! :]


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