# I hate my tank



## Jim (Apr 4, 2005)

Sounds like you have hair/thread algae in the tank. There's lots of good information on this site about it, but it would help if you provided some more details...water parameters, ferts dosing schedule, fish load, how much CO2, is this an established tank, how much lighting/for how long each day?

What brand test kits are you using? It's strange that you have a 0 reading for nitrates. Are you sure you are testing correctly? 

In terms of which test kits you should have...KH, GH, Nitrate, Phosphate and maybe Iron. You also need an accurate way to monitor pH, because it's so closely tied to CO2 levels (think pH controller).


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## Creedog (Dec 17, 2004)

How many hours of light does your tank get per day? You may want to consider lowering the duration.

I would also consider a blackout and manual removal of algae


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## Minnie (Feb 12, 2005)

This is what I can tell you about the tank. I did all the tests that I currently own. 

29 gallon tank with Eco-complete substrate
2 65watt lights, that run for 12-13 hours a day
pressurized CO2
pH 6.4
KH 6, so using Chuck's calculator that makes CO2 72ppm 
Nitrate 0 using an Aquarium Pharmaceuticals test kit. 

I used a Mardel 5 in 1 test strip and got the additional:
Alkalinity 80ppm
Hardness 250 ppm
nitrite 0

Residents are:
3 amano shrimp
1 clown loach
6 neon tetras
3 cory cats
2 Mickey mouse platys
2 otos (there were 3, but I can't find one today)

For ferts, I own Plant gro NPK and Plant gro iron enriched (has the trace elements). I know not very scientific of me, but I had been adding 1/2 a cap of each on alternating days, but I think I was making the problem worse. I have looked at the powder chemicals, but I'm intimidated. I guess I'm going to have to get over it. 

Where should I go from here? I'll cut back on the lighting. Should I lower the CO2, even though the fish seem happy? Toss my chemicals and buy what?


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## Jim (Apr 4, 2005)

For your AP nitrate test -- are you shaking the #2 solution, per the directions? If not, you will get a false (0) reading. 

Either way, you need to start dosing macros -- NO3 and PO4, in particular to get your tank into balance and eliminate your algae problem. Don't be intimidated  I have been using Greg Watson ferts for the past six months and the tank is doing well (no algae). It's no big deal. I would cut the light down to 10 hours until your algae subsides. In the meantime, pull out as many affected leaves as possible. If you want to get the upper hand, you really need to get the existing stuff out of there.


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## Minnie (Feb 12, 2005)

I don't even know what to pick from the Greg WAtson site to buy. K2SO4? KNO3? What about micros? Or get one of the CSM+Bs? I appreciate the help.


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## Jim (Apr 4, 2005)

I started with 1lb. of each... 

Plantex CSM+B Plus Iron 
Mono Potassium Phosphate (KH2PO4)
Potassium Sulfate (K2SO4)
Potassium Nitrate (KNO3)


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## shalu (Jan 16, 2003)

a good beginners guide:
http://www.rexgrigg.com/ferts.htm


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## Minnie (Feb 12, 2005)

Ok, I did it. I bought KNO3, KH2PO4, K2SO4 (don't know if I need it, but it was only a couple of bucks) and a set of measuring spoons from Greg Watson AND I subscribed to the Barr Report for good measure. I will conquer this ugly tank! I will! I will!

And I do shake that second solution like a madwoman. The Mardel strip read no nitrates either.


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## Jim (Apr 4, 2005)

...then you definitely need to start dosing nitrates


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

Minnie said:


> 29 gallon tank with Eco-complete substrate
> 2 65watt lights, that run for 12-13 hours a day


That's a lot of light. Are the bulbs on seperate plugs? If this were my set up I'd have one bulb on for 7 hours and have the second bulb come on for 7 hours overlaping the first bulb's time for 4 hours. 

Shorten the photo period and give an intense (noon) time. My tanks are on timers and they turn on around noon or so, which lets me enjoy them when I get home at night.


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## Minnie (Feb 12, 2005)

That's a good idea about the light. I will try that. I will go out and buy the timers today, as I have just been turning the lights on and off myself, giving it just a half hour period at the beginning and end of the day with just one of the lights on.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Minnie said:


> That's a good idea about the light. I will try that. I will go out and buy the timers today, as I have just been turning the lights on and off myself, giving it just a half hour period at the beginning and end of the day with just one of the lights on.


M:

Dose:

KNO3: 3x a week 1/4 teaspoon
KH2PO4 3x a week, divide a 1/4 teaspoon into 4 equal parts(1/16th) for each dose
Traces: add 5 mls 3 x a week of CMS into 500mls of water or Flourish

Do weekly 40-50% water change.
That's it.

Nothing to be intimidated about.

This will address the nutrients, all that's left is CO2.
Your KH measurements are different. Go with 80ppm, to convert to degrees, divide ppm/17.86.

Target 30ppm.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Minnie (Feb 12, 2005)

I did it! Or at least I've started it. I got my ferts from Greg Watson today, did a water change, added them, and now I await magic! Or at least an improvement. Thanks for the encouragement everyone. It would have seemed wasteful of me to yank them out and put plastic plants into the Eco-Complete.... roud:


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## Jason Baliban (Mar 3, 2005)

You should notice a difference within a week or two. Your plants will grow like crazy!!!
jB


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## ringram (Jan 19, 2005)

Good luck on that. I have a similar lighting level to yours and I was suffering some of the same problems. It seemed like I was always getting hair algae...Then, once that cleared up, I was getting green water, so I did a 3 day blackout and a big wc, which cleared it up. Then I turned the lights back on and dosed macros (just 1/2 tsp "Fleet", 1/2 tsp K2So4, 1/4 tsp KNo3) and a day or two later I saw the gw starting again. I just turned the lights back yesterday after another 3 day blackout, but I haven't dosed yet. I'm kind of afraid to at this point, even though the plants are growing quite well. 
It sounds like you've solved your problem, so congrats on that roud:


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## Cruise Control (Dec 16, 2004)

So how's your tank doing? I'm curious.


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

I have a 29 Gal with dual 65W 6700 bulbs. I run them both for 11 hours a day. I don't see a need to use two seperate overlapping periods. I doubt that has anything to do with your problem (at least directly). 

As far as the original algae that you said that you have, I had an outbreak of hair algae once that sounds similar to what you had/have. I attributed it to the fact that I dosed too much iron into the tank. Since I have cut back drastically on the iron, I have not had a problem since.


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## Minnie (Feb 12, 2005)

The tank still isn't right. I just can't shake this bba. I am going away for the weekend, and was thinking about doing a blackout, but can't seem to find any directions, specifically, should I dose with ferts before I do it? Today is my water change day, so I'm doing that now. It just looks so bad, and yet better than before, that's for sure. Back to the search....


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## newshound (May 9, 2005)

I am no planted tank expert but I recall reading that plants start to use light almost as soon as it hits them but algae needs like 5 hours to "warm up". So I turn on my lights for 6 hours then off for 2 hours then on again for 6 hours each day.
I am not sure this really works but it is something I came across.
I have read again and again that anything over 12 hours is a waste for plants and not for algae.
If you want atank full of the green stuff just leave your light on 24/7 :wink:


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Regards BBA, 30ppm of CO2 will control it and virtually wipe it out handily, if you are injecting pressurized CO2. roud: 
And IMO, 130 watts is a lot of light for a 29 gallon. You might want to try 10.5 to 11 hour total photo period for one bank (and incorporate a two hour noon time siesta) and then add the second bank on for 4 or 5 hours in the afternoon. I do it this way to enjoy my tank later in the evenng after work. So the first 65 watt bank comes on for ~ four hours in the morning, siesta, then it comes back on and shortly after the second bank of 65 watts comes on as well for about four plus hours. These siestas are of questionable value for defeating algae, but it works for my timeline to enjoy the tank... And who knows, maybe it does slow down the green algaes. Good luck.


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## jesstray (Mar 17, 2005)

I am curious of the status of your tank now. Please post pics if possible. I too had a similar problem and have some ferts coming in from Greg. I hope this will prove to be the miracle solution.


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## Minnie (Feb 12, 2005)

Hi. I blacked out the tank for three days. I did a water change, did a filter cleaning, then covered the whole thing with black trashbags. I think I was expecting the stuff to have all magically disappeared. It didn't.

I am still pruning the stuff out and doing the EI routine, with macros from Gregg and Flourish for the micros. I had been doing the siesta thing with the lights, but since it wasn't doing the trick, I changed my timers so that the CO2 goes on at 7, one light at 7:30 and the other at 8am. CO2 off a half an hour before the first light goes off, then one light off followed by the other half an hour later. Total light time is 12 hours. I'm home during the day with the kids; there's no need for me to have the light on late into the evening.

I'm keeping the CO2 at 40-50 ppm, it's pressurized. My female japonicas are both full of eggs, and my gourami just built his second bubble nest, apparently unaware that the other gourami is also a male. So the fauna are happy.

I'm still tempted to rip it all out and start again. Yet I continue. Off to do some pruning. I don't know how to post pictures yet. I'll look in to it later. Thanks.


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## shalu (Jan 16, 2003)

cut your light hours to 8-10 hours and you should see significantly less algae growth over time


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## actioncia (Jun 9, 2005)

try lowering your CO2 to 30 ppm.


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## Jason Baliban (Mar 3, 2005)

actioncia said:


> try lowering your CO2 to 30 ppm.


What are the benefits of lowering the CO2? What are the adverse effects of having co2 too high?

jB


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## Minnie (Feb 12, 2005)

I meant to post a follow-up. My tank looks absolutely beautiful now. I ended up doing the overdose of Excel shortly after my last post in this thread. It killed the algae, and whatever my CO2 is running at seems to be keeping it at bay. I love to sit there and stare at my plants. So recently I've focused on moving plants around, trying to work on my "look." The glosso is finally spreading around (it doesn't grow well when covered in BBA) and I added some cherries in there. I pretty much try to figure out a way to get everyone who comes to my door to come in and see my tank. It was such an ugly mess for so long that I can't believe how good it looks now.

:icon_bigg I love my tank!!!!!!!!! :icon_bigg


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## Matak (Aug 10, 2005)

Another happy ending courtesy of TPT. roud: 
Minnie, can we see some pics?


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## Minnie (Feb 12, 2005)

I took some pictures the other day (honestly, I can hardly stop looking at my tank) but I didn't like how they looked. I have to read up on how to photograph a tank and get it to look good. I'll go do that now.... roud:


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## Matak (Aug 10, 2005)

If you have the settings and a tripod, mount it on the tripod and turn off the flash. Also, shoot the pic on an angle from the tank because a head on shot seems to catch glare from the tank glass. Also try to be wary of any other light that will reflect from the tank.


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## Georgiadawgger (Apr 23, 2004)

This is a great thread Minnie!! It really shows the perserverance that is needed sometimes to overcome annoying battles. I'm glad the Excel treatment worked for you. When I first saw the title of your thread and the purple unhappy face I pretty much busted out laughing, trust me, the majority of us have gone through what you have. 

We can't keep stressing enough about HIGH co2 levels (whoever suggested dropping it ????), and pruning any infected/affected leaves. BBA is a major PITA and personally the worst eye-sore in a tank. 

We're all glad the tank is in great shape now!! Now you just have to get the green thumb going!! roud:


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## Barbels (Aug 3, 2004)

Minnie said:


> I meant to post a follow-up. My tank looks absolutely beautiful now. I ended up doing the overdose of Excel shortly after my last post in this thread.


Right on, Minnie! Could you please tell me how many gallons is your tank?
How many ml's Excel did you use, and for how long?
Thank you.


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## Minnie (Feb 12, 2005)

I have a 29 gallon tank. I used three times the recommended dosage for two weeks. So on the water change day, I added 9 capfuls of excel, then 2 capfuls every day after for two weeks. The water turned cloudy after a couple of days, and about 8 days into the treatment or so, the light went on and the bba was gone. Like magic. My fish and shrimp were fine the entire time--no losses or apparent stress.


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## TRDMCV20L (Jan 22, 2006)

newshound said:


> I am no planted tank expert but I recall reading that plants start to use light almost as soon as it hits them but algae needs like 5 hours to "warm up". So I turn on my lights for 6 hours then off for 2 hours then on again for 6 hours each day.
> I am not sure this really works but it is something I came across.
> I have read again and again that anything over 12 hours is a waste for plants and not for algae.
> If you want atank full of the green stuff just leave your light on 24/7 :wink:


Is this really true? What do you guys think.


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## valleyvampiress (Apr 25, 2005)

TRDMCV20L said:


> Is this really true? What do you guys think.


" I have read again and again that anything over 12 hours is a waste for plants and not for algae."

I know this part is true. Actually, I heard it was 10hrs, not 12. 10hrs as far as I know, is the most your plants can use. As for the rest, that's all questionable...


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