# Festivum in planted tank -- Loads of pics!



## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Has anyone first hand experience with Mesonauta/Cichlasoma festivum?

I find them attractive, and there are four at my LFS that have been there for a couple of weeks, still looking good, so they should do great water- and food-wise. Thinking about adding them to my 100 gal tank (sorta poor man's discus :tongue: )

Information on the web is somewhat controversial... some say they are peaceful, almost timid, and love to carefully swim around in between dense plantings, others say they are aggressive and behave like wanna-be Oscars.

What's the truth?


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## Wö£fëñxXx (Dec 2, 2003)

Wasserpest said:


> Has anyone first hand experience with Mesonauta/Cichlasoma festivum?
> 
> What's the truth?


Both actually, I have 3 of them, two males and one female. pic of the female here http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showpost.php?p=68083&postcount=30

I can get ya some pics of the two males if ya want also so you can see the diference between male/female

She is an awesome fish, she loves flys gnats crickets guppys brine shrimp, she is peaceful, but will stand her ground with the other tank mates, rams and angels, She does grace the tank.

Now, I have the two males in the 55 comunity tank one of the males is oh about 1/2 the size of your hand maybe a bit larger, he's a good size, they get large like 7" he is aggresive and almost mean, but he does well in the heavy planted55.. no stress, he's with rainbow sharks, phantom tetras, rams, a pleco an angel and some other assorted dime store fish my wife had to have...lol
It really depends on what sex you get, I have found the females are pretty much sweet, the males are mean, but I love them  
I've had them about 6 months or so. got them at different times so they all dif size. they were all very tiny when I got them.
Hope my rambling helped.


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## FiberCon (May 22, 2004)

Well, I had seen several posts / pictures of people with Festivums in planted tanks with no issues, but I had also read the conflicting reports like you have.

I decided to give one a try since my LFS had one in. Well, he decided that my planted tank was an All You Can Eat and then some salad bar. Rotala wallichii, sword plant, java moss, etc... None of it was safe. He'd eat the regular fish food then go back to munching on the plants. Needless to say I had to take him back to the LFS. I did trade him in for 3 nice blue rams tho.


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

I used to have one in a planted tank, when I was in Grad school. It never bothered the plants, acted a lot like an Angelfish. I got it when it was very small, it might not have been interested in the 'salad' while it was growing up on black worms. 

It was a great fish, my wife named it Spike. Part of the condition of my getting a 75 gallon tank was that I get a pair of "Spike's" for her. So I'll be putting in a special order at the LFS soon.


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## GulfCoastAquarian (Jul 30, 2002)

I'm subscribing to this thread. I've wanted to add Severums and then changed my mind to Festivums as a poor-mans-Discus, just like Wasser said. Hope to hear a few more testimonies before taking the plunge!


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Thanks for your input! Seems like other fish, they can differ substantially in character from one specimen to another. 

After reading Fibercons post, I thought: Not for me! But I might give it a try anyway. I just can't imagine them shredding sword plants, and maybe aggressiveness will be a little more distributed and muted in a dense 100 gal jungle.

It looked like two of the four were a little bigger, more colorful, and more aggressive, while the two others were smaller, with the dark flag more visible. Wolfen, if you could post a pic of the male(s) for comparison that would be great, and thanks for sharing your experiences!

So, if they are still available tomorrow, I will grab them... and let you know.


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## FiberCon (May 22, 2004)

If I try them again I'm going to try to see if getting them a little smaller would make a difference. The one I got was about 3.5 inches in body length when I got him. Either way, I probably won't try them again until i set up another tank.


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## Wö£fëñxXx (Dec 2, 2003)

Howdy WP
I am trying to get some photo's of the two males, they are not cooperating at all...
For what it is worth I have heard of them chewing up plants, but I have never seen them do that. I do keep them a good variety of food. from masquito's to guppys..


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Do you think 4 of them in a 100 gal tank would get along with each other? 

I am used to feeding live stuff to my African Butterfly's, so a variety in nutrition shouldn't be a problem.

Hmmm... if they are still there tomorrow, I will have some first-hand experience to share...:fish1: :fish:


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## Wö£fëñxXx (Dec 2, 2003)

4 in a 100g may be ok, but then again, I bet you get a dominate male. but who knows, 100g is alot more room than a 46 or 55.

I would get all 4, keep them awhile, carry one or two back later, if you needed/wanted to, or not.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Last night I got the four Festivums. They are currently in my q-tank, recovering their fins, especially their pectoral fins look like Madagascar lace plants :icon_roll 

First impressions: Skittish? Timid? Nah! They attacked the net when the guy at the LFS fished them out of the tank :icon_bigg After 1.5 hours in the bag, I released them into their new world, and they almost immediately took bloodworms! They also munched snails, not like loaches which suck them out, nope, they eat the whole thing and then spit out what seems to be remaining of the shell :icon_eek: 

They do move very graceful, very confident of themselves. I am planning on leaving them one or two weeks in the q-tank, then starting with the weakest one move them into the 100 gal.


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## FiberCon (May 22, 2004)

Best of luck with them Wasser... Keep us updated.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

These are some hungry beasts :fish: 

They already ate a bunch of tadpoles.

Then I threw in a few Gambusia affinis babies. Gone in minutes!

Scary :tongue: 

Got to take some pics...


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## Wö£fëñxXx (Dec 2, 2003)

They do like to eat  I have been busy last couple of days and haven't got to spend to much time with the camera, bought me a new Canon A80 should be here wednesday  but here are a couple of photo's of my males, they are hard to capture, they don't like the camera, but they will before its over..lol

the famale








The males

















^^The dominate male

Looking forward to seeing some of your photo's


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Took a couple of quick shots. Mine are definitely not camera shy, they are so curious, easy to get them to look cute roud: 

Here's a bunch of them. So far they are really peaceful, but that could be a false assumption... considering I just dropped them into the tank!








http://www.plantedtank.net/imageh/images/12/4060413b.jpg

Very graceful, although they can sure be quick... quicker than the live-bearers I put into the tank!








http://www.plantedtank.net/imageh/images/12/4060414b.jpg

I like the elongated fins. Two of them have them, two of them don't. Not sure though about genders yet...








http://www.plantedtank.net/imageh/images/12/4060411b.jpg

Cheeeeese!!!








http://www.plantedtank.net/imageh/images/12/4060419b.jpg


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## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

Great looking fish!


Keep us posted on their progress!!

Mike


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## Wö£fëñxXx (Dec 2, 2003)

Very nice WP. how much did they cost you? if you don't mind me asking.
That cheese photo is great..lol nice shot and what kind of camera do you use? roud:


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

So far they are great fish... just spent an hour watching them. They had a meeting to decide what that strange-looking thing (floating thermometer) is. Couldn't quite agree on anything. :tongue: 

They were $7.99 each... and my camera is a Canon G3.


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

I am working on a tank at the LFS tonight, help with the aquascape of one of their tanks. I'm gonna have them special order some little guys for me. I want them young and impressionable.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

A few days ago I moved two of them into the 100 gal tank. They seemed to have some minor differences in the q-tank, and those two started to get their fins beaten up. Three or four days later, they have recovered perfectly and look healthy and happy as can be.

Now for the bad news. (Lesson learned: if there are various opinions about a matter, always assume that the negative one is what applies to you). They do like salad. I mean there is not much they don't like. They have eaten grasshoppers, earwigs, lotsa flies, spiders, ants, tadpoles, livebearer babies... But apart from that, they also like peas, spinach, zucchini and any of the dry or frozen food that I offer, which is good. They further like to munch java moss and salvinia (perhaps duckweed?) which is alright, except that I have now large dislodged pieces of java moss drifting through the tank. The first day in the new tank, they did some bad things to my beloved Red Melon sword. Not nice...








http://www.plantedtank.net/imageh/images/12/4061007b.jpg

http://www.plantedtank.net/imageh/images/12/4061007b.jpgApart from that little detail, they are very nice fishies. Looking good, peaceful so far (Well... towards anything they don't consider food. Haven't seen any ghost shrimp lately in my tank  ).

Their color is quite variable, sometimes they show the typical flag, while other times they display a vertical pattern, not quite sure yet what that means and if one is a sign of dominance or subordinance or whatnot.








http://www.plantedtank.net/imageh/images/12/4061010b.jpg








http://www.plantedtank.net/imageh/images/12/4061011b.jpg

Even though it is still too early to judge, I can not recommend them for your beautiful planted tank unless you'd like some action, don't mind a pre-filter made of java moss, and can handle the casual damage to crispy new swordplant leaves. :icon_roll


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## Wö£fëñxXx (Dec 2, 2003)

OMG...:icon_roll 

bad fishies..lol sorry not laughing at you. That is nuts, the festivums I have, have never munched a plant in either of my tanks. I guess that doesn't mean they won't :icon_frow 

Guess you will have to trim that sword now eh..what do you plan to do with them?


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

I am just going to sit back and relax... I still need to move the two others into the large tank, will see what happens then. Hoping that the sword leave has a really bitter aftertaste, since the initial chew they've left it alone.

Maybe they like plants when they are smaller, and go meat as they mature? (Wishful thinking...)

Thanks for resizing your pics! Nice fishies, when they are a little more mature...


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

The four of them now spent a week in the large tank. After my first shock with the E. barthii they have not done anymore direct plant damage. They ate some dying star grass, and enjoy ripping out single strands of java moss, but that is alright, it's growing too much to be noticed, just have to check my filter inlet strainers once in a while.

It's kind of funny that they like java moss. If I was a fishie, I would probably eat something softer, maybe A. reineckii? :tongue: 

The four interact a lot with each other. There is one dominant male, and a second one that looks almost identical, which gets chased off, but due to the dense plant growth there is not much aggresiveness. A third one seems to keep close to the dominant male, and is accepted, actually the male is showing off... this one shows the vertical stripes almost all the time. I suppose it is a female. Not sure about the fourth, which is a tad smaller than the other three, and has finnage more like the 3rd one. 

All in all they are not very aggressive (for their size, and power) even a wussies like Pearl Gouramies chase them off. That might change a lot once they mature a little more. I think they have already grown a bit. The two (males?) display some nice colors, with metallic blue/green on their sides, yellow/green throat, yellow fin areas, and dark orange eyes. The frontal flash pics don't show that.

I like them more, now that they leave the Swords alone! You can tell...


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## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

> It's kind of funny that they like java moss. If I was a fishie, I would probably eat something softer, maybe A. reineckii?


OUCH!! :icon_sad: :red_mouth 

Mike


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

> If I was a fishie, I would probably eat something softer, maybe A. reineckii? :tongue:


 Oh I cant believe you said that outloud man... careful what ya wish for, it may come true... LOL
They sure did a number on that nice sword... 
Wasser if they did it once they will most likely do it again, its like a habit to some of these fish. My angels will shred away at my java's but then wont go near it for a week but thats because they are shredding away at my tennellus , then they will move on to something else and start the cycle all over again. :angryfire 
But they are always pickin at something you can believe, I am forever picking up after them. I thought I was underfeeding them so I started feeding them more but didnt make a difference, all I got was dirtier water... LOL

I guess ya just have to accept that some of these fish just love a salad with there meal. :wink: heh


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## FiberCon (May 22, 2004)

Wasserpest said:


> (Lesson learned: if there are various opinions about a matter, always assume that the negative one is what applies to you).


Sorry to hear that.  Hopefully they'll calm down for you and leave the vegetation alone.


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

I'm glad to hear they settled down a bit and gave up on the veggie diet. Keep us posted, I am still planning on ordering some unless I find a pal who is breeding them.
:wink:


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## RoseHawke (Mar 10, 2004)

Buck said:


> ... My angels will shred away at my java's but then wont go near it for a week but thats because they are shredding away at my tennellus , then they will move on to something else and start the cycle all over again. :angryfire ...


Oh, man, don't tell me that. I'm aiming to have 4 or 5 black lace veil angels in the 90 whenever I get it set up!


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

The dominant male and #3, the striped one, definitely did some interesting stuff last night. The male was showing off a lot, and then they started to "clean" one Sword leaf. I can't believe it, they are just a week in that tank and already start with their rituals. Hope they don't get overly aggressive... will keep you updated.

roud:


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

To bring this thread to a glorious end...








http://www.plantedtank.net/imageh/images/12/4071219b.jpg

Festivums are very attractive, interesting, intelligent and strong fishies. They eat pretty much anything that fits into their mouth. They are not shy at all.








http://www.plantedtank.net/imageh/images/12/4071220b.jpg

They like to eat a lot. If they feel hungry or bored, they start to rip up java moss, and take some healthy bites out of swords and tiger lotus. They love lettuce, peas and spinach.








http://www.plantedtank.net/imageh/images/12/4071226b.jpg

When my Festivums got bored, they started to rip out the fin extensions of my African Butterfly fishies. I hated that. Had to relocate the AFB's into the garage tank. Festivums also, even though they have extended fins themselves, sometimes decide it would be fun trying to rip out the long fins of my pearl gouramies. I hope they don't get bored that often.








http://www.plantedtank.net/imageh/images/12/4071217b.jpg

As I said, they are attractive. Frontal flash does not show any of the blue-metallic coloration, so here is a pic without flash that lets you grasp the beauty a little better. The yellow throat is visible on the "face closeup" above.








http://www.plantedtank.net/imageh/images/12/4071235b.jpg


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## bigpow (May 24, 2004)

*!*



GulfCoastAquarian said:


> I'm subscribing to this thread. I've wanted to add Severums and then changed my mind to Festivums as a poor-mans-Discus, just like Wasser said. Hope to hear a few more testimonies before taking the plunge!


Gold Severum beats what-ever this wanna be discus anyday...


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