# Oh crap...



## iamzrad (Mar 21, 2009)

First off, Hello! Kind of a lurker, looking at help here and there, seeing awesome setups, but I am having a crazy problem.

Ugh, this stuff started to grow about a month ago, I rearranged, etc., and it went away. I was gone for three days and I come home today and boom, it has infested my compacta's and even my filter outtakes. As well as algae growth on my substrate and rocks...
I know my plants are doomed that have this crap on them, because the leaves are starting to turn brown.


























Any idea how to stop this and prevent it from happening? Or heck, what it even is?

Here's some parameters, since I know people will ask for them,
water temp- 78-79
pH- 6.8-7.0, relatively soft water
substrate- eco complete underneath with small black gravel on top
I dose 3 times a week with flourish, excel, potassium and iron, weekly 10% water changes
DIY C02 into a powerhead (center of tank) C02 runs all day during "light" hours.

I even have nerites and oto's and they don't touch this stuff.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

it's staghorn.
2 things can trigger it, excess ammonia and low CO2.

You can remove it manually by cutting of the affected leaves and over dosing Excel.


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## iamzrad (Mar 21, 2009)

.5ppm ammonia

C02 is always on though...


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

.5ppm is enough, and DIY CO2 is not enough.


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## GlassCat594 (Mar 20, 2009)

Water flow was my problem.....


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## kyle3 (May 26, 2005)

ammonia should be 0ppm try doing larger water changes- i change 50% weekly. 

how big is your tank? DIY CO2 and excel work for my 20 gallon
how often do you change your yeast/sugar mixture?

an immediate band-aid would be an excel dip and/or target treating and or overdosing the whole tank with exccel

but to prevent it coming back you need to get rid of the ammonia and get a more consistent level of CO2, also look at flow- often you're circulation is inadequate to get CO2 to all areas and sweep away ammonia from decomposing leaves/food/poo.

cheers-K


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## waterfaller1 (Jul 5, 2006)

Have you had any fish gone missing? I see dieing leaves in the first pic. You should go through and remove them as they die. Overfeeding can cause ammonia as well. How big and what kind of filter is on this tank?


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## aledr2004 (Mar 8, 2009)

I am a total novice but can tell you what worked for me.

I had a similar problem with staghorn as well as BBA in my 24 gallon set up. I got the same advice to go pressurised, but unfortunately my finances just won't stretch to that at the moment (the missus thinks having food and paying the mortgage should take priority). 

I increased the DIY CO2 from 1x 2 litre bottle to 2x 2Litre bottles. I now change the bottles on alternate weeks which should hopefully give me a more consistent level of CO2. I also started dosing Easy-Carbo (same as Excel) at 3x the recommended daily dose and removed as much of the affected plants as practicable. I then added an additional internal filter to increase flow and distribution of CO2.

That was about 2 months ago now and it seems to have done the trick. 

Good Luck.


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## Honorable24 (Nov 16, 2008)

I had staghorn and my photoperiod was too long and I shorten it 2 hours now its just magically dieing down.


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## kotoeloncat (Apr 12, 2006)

even when Co2 is always on, sometime DIY just doesnt give you enough Co2.
if at all possible, switch to a pressurized system.

most algae problem is either lack of Co2 or fluctuation in Co2 levels.
Presurized system solves both this problem.


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## Vladdy (May 6, 2008)

Maybe some types of shrimp will eat it. I doubt it though. Try cutting off the infected leaves. If that doesn't help, then the plants are pretty much doomed.


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## waterfaller1 (Jul 5, 2006)

Turn the lights off for three to four days and nuke it with Excel. And..extra water changes.


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## demosthenes (Aug 23, 2008)

i agree with nuking it with excel and manually removing it, but i'm curious as to what kind of CO2 youre using. 

I have three 1L smartwater bottles set up (each connected to a separate airstone or diffuser), and every week i replace one of them. This way, one of them is usually barely producing any, one is usually producing a little, and one is usually producing a lot, and it always stays that way. If you only have one bottle, consider upgrading to two or three bottles (but DO NOT overdo it!), and if you have two bottles, change them on alternating weeks instead of at the same time.

someone above told you that you might want to use 2x2L bottles, but i think its better to use 4x1L bottles, it allows for better transitions between changes. Also it produces smaller bubbles when there is only 1L of yeast-sugar-water concoction connected to each airstone/diffusor.


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## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

kotoeloncat said:


> even when Co2 is always on, sometime DIY just doesnt give you enough Co2.
> if at all possible, switch to a pressurized system.
> 
> most algae problem is either lack of Co2 or fluctuation in Co2 levels.
> Presurized system solves both this problem.


Agreed! IME, algae is largely due to either light or c02 related issues. You have to either increase c02 levels if you have high light plants, such as some carpeting plants, or reduce light if you have plants that are not too light intensive. Either way, reducing light levels helps you to hit target c02 levels and successfully prevent algae and defeat existing algae. But you will find it difficult to get away with DIY c02 if reducing light is not an option. You likely will not be able to get away with DIY, unless you don't mind daisy chaining a bunch of bottles, and mixing a new brew every week. Personally, I consider that more hassle than its worth and there is no real savings in doing so, considering that the long term costs of DIY c02 easily exceed the high initial cost of pressurized c02.

Pressurized c02 gives you the best control over long term consistent c02 and makes it much easier to tweak c02 levels to hit target rates than DIY c02.


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## iamzrad (Mar 21, 2009)

It's a 45gal tank.
I have a 2.75L bottle, 3TBS of yeast, 2cups of sugar, 2/3 water. I change the mixture every 2 weeks. And I run the C02 during "light" hours, then turn off during night.
The C02 enters an airstone that is placed inside a powerhead which distributes the C02 at the center of the tank and once it hits the front glass, it separates left and right.

I might try a smaller bottle setup with more bottles to make it more consistent.

I cut and trimmed all the infected areas. But some of the staghorn is still around, but is being controlled.

No fish deaths.

I also have about 400watts of light, around the 6700k spectrum. Maybe it's too much light? But at the end of the day I see the plants "breathing" and oxygen bubbles are plentiful.

I do 25-30% weekly water changes.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

I can't imagine a reason for a planted tank to have 400 watts of light on a 45 gallon tank, unless, for some reason you have to locate those lights 3 feet above the tank. Do you have 4 96 watt PC bulbs? I have a 45 gallon tank, a 30" x 17" x 20" tank, with a single 55 watt AHS PC light about 6 inches above the tank. I can grow stem plants, as well as low light plants, because I also have pressurized CO2 running just short of what the fish can't tolerate. I'm not going to say that my lighting is what everyone should have, but I will say that 2 55 watt AH Supply lights sitting right on top of that tank is enough light to make it difficult to avoid continual algae problems.


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## redman88 (Dec 12, 2008)

how much water do you loss to evaporation?


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## iamzrad (Mar 21, 2009)

The lights are about 12" from the water line.

*I lose about 1-3% due to evaporation. I should also mention that I don't have glass tops or any kind of tops for the tank.

Right now I am "nuking" my tank with excel for the next 2 days, hopefully that will rid the staghorn.

My plants are growing normally though. Dead leaves are being replaced by new/fresh leaves and my val's and teardrops are "extending" (as I call it) their roots. And I have to trim everything every week.

I also have a 6watt UV light for algae control, but I think the bulb is dead because I still get algae growth on my substrate, yet the indicator light on the ballast continues to stay lit. And the tank does not see sunlight, ever.


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

WHy do you have 400 watts of lighting? You could run a 300g tank on that.... WHat are the wattages of your bulbs? Pics of the whole tank/light?


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## captain_bu (Oct 20, 2007)

You have 400 watts of light over a 45 gallon tank, are using DIY CO2 and from the specs in your first post it doesn't look like you are dosing any Nitrates or Phosphates. Sounds like the perfect recipe for an algae farm. Ignoring the fact that you have way more light than you need how long do you leave your lights on for? You also didn't say what kind of filter you are using. If you have a HOB filter it is driving whatever CO2 you have out of the water. 

Clean and remove as much algae as possible. Suggest you lower lighting levels, monitor CO2 levels with a drop checker if you aren't already so you have some idea of how much CO2 is actually in the water, work on upping your CO2 levels and tweak your dosing to include Nitrates and Phosphates. If you are using liquid ferts look into getting dry. The liquids tend to be very weak and you are paying mostly for water. The liquids work okay for small low light tanks but for a tank your size with high lighting they won't do the trick.


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## iamzrad (Mar 21, 2009)

I should rephrase,
I have 4 lights (2) 6700k, (2) 6900k, each one is rated at 23watts but equals 100watts (each) by lumens or something, like fluorescent bulbs do to incandescent. Sorry if that was confusing.

I have a fluval 204 which has my media and a magnum 350 (low power) that has some ammonia remover and other fine polishing material. The powerhead simply flows water with the C02 hooked up to it.

Lights stay on for about 9-10hours every day.


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## ESK07 (Mar 16, 2009)

Thought your staghorn problems were gone Iamzliar!


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## herefisheefishee (Apr 29, 2009)

iamzrad said:


> I should rephrase,
> I have 4 lights (2) 6700k, (2) 6900k, each one is rated at 23watts but equals 100watts (each) by lumens or something, like fluorescent bulbs do to incandescent. Sorry if that was confusing.


Well for the WPG equation we just run off of what the bulb says.
So you've got 92 watts of light on a 45 gal tank, with DIY co2 and no dosing.

I'm going to suggest the same as captain_bu. Clean what algae you can, monitor CO2 and start dosing dry ferts. I think it would be a good idea to probably drop a bulb for now, and shorten your photoperiod to 6-7 hours at least until the algae is under control.


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## iamzrad (Mar 21, 2009)

I do wet ferts every 2 days.


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## iamzrad (Mar 21, 2009)

ESK07 said:


> Thought your staghorn problems were gone Iamzliar!


It is mostly gone, yes. Trying to prevent it from coming back.
:fish:

Go eat some more kiwis.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Those bulbs are not very good for getting light into the water. So, I suspect even with 92 watts you have low intensity light. If you want to keep using DIY CO2, not a bad idea, but probably not necessary, try it with 2-2 liter bottles of yeast mix, and change one bottle each week. That will even out the variations in concentration a lot, and may get rid of the algae by itself. You won't need a lot of fertilizing either, dosing once a week, but with nitrates, phosphates, potassium and trace elements each time should be all you need. Seachem's bottled fertilizers could work fine for that.


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## Coltonorr (Mar 12, 2008)

First I want to say...this thread title has been tempting me for days and I finally just got the chance to read it...:icon_redf

Second...IF I HAD 400WATTS OF LIGHT, I'D BE GETTING A 180 GAL TANK:thumbsup::icon_cool


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## Dirtdawg57 (Jul 1, 2009)

Do true siamese algae eaters (SAE)'s eat Staghorn?


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