# Help with melting plants



## Jamo33 (Feb 18, 2014)

Many plants melt when they are transferred into a new tank. This can either be due to the change from emergent growth to submerging growth, or simply a change in parameters. 
Plants will melt if parameters change too rapidly, it is a way to adjust to the new water. 
Being a new tank, I am not surprised that there is melt. Best approach is to keep on top of maintenance. If leaves are too far gone, remove them. Leaving them in will only encourage algae. 
This starting phase can be a huge nuisance. But be diligent and wait. Crypt and buce etc can melt back to nothing and return soon after. 
As far as ferts, I am not sure how loaded up stratum is on fertilizers, but I doubt they need anything yet. Though we will leave that up to someone more knowledgable on the substrate.

Side note. It is important not to be lulled into a false belief of a completed cycle. Plants will eat ammonia and fertilizers are nitrogen, so it could look like a cycle has completed because you have no NH4,NO2 but have NO3. Yet all that's really happened is you added nitrate and ammonia is being eaten or not introduced. In other words...the bacteria dont yet exist.

Good luck and good start here!


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## MtAnimals (May 17, 2015)

being your tank and plants are both so new,as was said,new plants will melt oftentimes,because they are grown emersed and have to transition to submerged growth.

I would add ammonia until I got to 3 or 4 ppm,and check it every day.That will get your bacteria built up,and the plants will love it.

The cycling products from my experience are sort of a crapshoot,if they got too cold or too hot,or have been on the store shelf too long,they may or may not still have live bacteria in them.

When my tank consumes 3 ppm ammonia,and maintains 0 nitrites,while nitrate goes off the scale,i consider it cycled.

the crypts are famous for melting away when introduced to a new tank.Is that Bacopa or rotala? I can see it's emersed and will grow new underwater leaves.If they're rotala,the new growth will look completely different.


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## YodaFishGrl (Nov 11, 2019)

It is bacopa, I ordered all my plants online from Buceplants.com 

I retested my peramiters this morning and I am showing Amonia 1.0 nitrite .50 and nitrate 30.

Could I hurt the plants or damage the cycle by doing to many water changes?

I am not in a hurry to cycle for the addition of livestock. I want my plants to be well established first.

Also should I then hold back on liquid ferts untill the plants melt and start regrowth or should I continue to add them through out the whole process..?


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## MtAnimals (May 17, 2015)

water changes will slow the cycling,I just cycled 2 tanks last month,I like 3 ppm ammonia and no water changes until right before I add fish.I've been using the 10% ACe ammonia,about 1 cc per 10 gallons.


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## Aku Sakana (Jul 27, 2017)

Not good to put slow growing plants in a new tank .
Should start with fast plants and floaters, cycle tank and then add fish . 
Need to lower light and cut the photo period down to 7 hours. 
New tanks with new filters will have algae and you don't want to kill all your plants . 
Patients you must have.....

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## YodaFishGrl (Nov 11, 2019)

Should I pull out and remove all the melted plants ? 

Or cut away all the leaves and leave the roots ? 

They've melted pretty bad now. The Bacopa is the only one that looks like it's doing ok. Despite lossing some lower leaves.

What are some fast growing low light plants I can put in ?


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## MtAnimals (May 17, 2015)

I would only remove the melted portions,the plants will usually bounce back.As far as fast growing plants,one of my favorites is wisteria,Hygrophila difformis.you can usually find it in a tube at petco or petsmart,another is hygrophila corymbosa,though it gets huge once it gets established.

a weighted bucnh of elodea or hornwort can help lots too,or even floating.I'm sure others will chime in as well.

another one that you can sometimes find at petco,would be rotala rotundfolia,the emersed growth will look like bacopa,but the underwater growth is pretty and it can grow pretty crazy too.


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## Aku Sakana (Jul 27, 2017)

Don't feel bad alot of first time planted tanks go through a kill plant cycle. What you have is high ammonia and low nitrate/nitrogen, this is really bad for alot of plants . Melted stem plants want come back but the cryptocoryne MAY come back. 
I cycle my tanks with no light for a month and then add a few fish , few weeks later add plants . 
The water that goes in the tank is a big factor in how things go from the start. 
Old water from aged tank can help with plants from the start but if using tap water there will need to be adjustments. 


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## YodaFishGrl (Nov 11, 2019)

I decided the just remove my crypts and choose another easy plants. With less melting. And try and save my stem plants upper half they do show new leaf growth on the very tips. And my repens also has new lower growth. And I will replace my crypts with pearl weed and some jungle Val in the back corner. And maybe some pogostemon octopus.


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## YodaFishGrl (Nov 11, 2019)

Day 1 November 9th
Everything looked so good.









Day 5 November 14th 
Total plant melt down.


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## furnfins (Dec 30, 2011)

That's happened to me many times. I believe the plants are grown out of water so they can grow quantity. When they're put on water it's a shock and they die back but they eventually return. I started buying my plants from Aquarium Co-op and haven't had the problem. They start the plants in water when they get them in from what I read. Good luck, love your rock. Keep the crypts, they'll grow back.


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## MtAnimals (May 17, 2015)

Alternatively,it takes more patience,but I've had excellent luck with the tissue culture plants,like the ones in the small top fin packs? I've got a huge bunch of crypt wendtii that came from one of those,but it took a couple of years to grow into a huge mass,Also,I have some cryptocorne undulata that seems to be coming in faster.

With those,A.R,and Staurogyne repens,I've had no melting or die back at all,


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## YodaFishGrl (Nov 11, 2019)

Yea I have an entire shopping cart full of aquarium co op plants I want to order. I'm going to cut my losses and pull out all the overly melted plants and replace them. I don't have the patience. The tank just looks so bad I can't stop obessing over it. 

My only plants showing new growth are the repens and bacopa.


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## Desert Pupfish (May 6, 2019)

furnfins said:


> Keep the crypts, they'll grow back.





YodaFishGrl said:


> Yea I have an entire shopping cart full of aquarium co op plants I want to order. I'm going to cut my losses and pull out all the overly melted plants and replace them. I don't have the patience. The tank just looks so bad I can't stop obessing over it.
> 
> My only plants showing new growth are the repens and bacopa.


I'd second @furnfins advice to cut back the melted parts on the crypts & see what happens. Totally get your frustration and desire for immediate gratification, but ripping everything out at the first sign of any setback is going to, well, set you back. A tank full of easy fast growing stems will require LOTS of maintenance. Crypts take awhile, but once they get established are very low maintenance. A mix of fast & slower growing plants will give you some options later on w/o having to keep tearing up your entire plantscape. May not matter now when all you've got is a few minnows, but most fish will hate having their surroundings continually torn up--and it can upset the balance and cause a mini-cycle--which your shrimp won't like one bit. 

Promised you some jungle val, and may have some other stems I can throw in. Will PM you.

Bump:


furnfins said:


> Keep the crypts, they'll grow back.





YodaFishGrl said:


> Yea I have an entire shopping cart full of aquarium co op plants I want to order. I'm going to cut my losses and pull out all the overly melted plants and replace them. I don't have the patience. The tank just looks so bad I can't stop obessing over it.
> 
> My only plants showing new growth are the repens and bacopa.


I'd second @furnfins advice to cut back the melted parts on the crypts & see what happens. Totally get your frustration and desire for immediate gratification, but ripping everything out at the first sign of any setback is going to, well, set you back. A tank full of easy fast growing stems will require LOTS of maintenance. Crypts take awhile, but once they get established are very low maintenance. A mix of fast & slower growing plants will give you some options later on w/o having to keep tearing up your entire plantscape. May not matter now when all you've got is a few minnows, but most fish will hate having their surroundings continually torn up--and it can upset the balance and cause a mini-cycle--which your shrimp won't like one bit. 

Promised you some jungle val, and may have some other stems I can throw in. Will PM you.


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## Triport (Sep 3, 2017)

I wouldn't pull out melted plants. Most of the will very quickly grow new foliage. Just snip any melting/rotting leaves and leave the roots alone. This is not a hobby that allows impatience but it will be worth the wait.


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## YodaFishGrl (Nov 11, 2019)

I attempted to remove melted leaves today and the plants just fell apart into nothing quickly mixing into the water. All the roots were dead except one crypt so I replanted it. I cleaned everything up. Still have my 2 bulb plants and 3 bucephalandra and 1 repens, 1 crypt root and some dwarf water lettuce and spangle.


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## YodaFishGrl (Nov 11, 2019)




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## DaveKS (Apr 2, 2019)

It almost sounds like you extremely overdosed tank. Leaves melting off from transfer/new tank shock normal. Whole colony of most plants turning to mush there’s something else going on here. 

What are your water PH, GH and KH?

How much of stuff you listed before did you dose and how often.


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## YodaFishGrl (Nov 11, 2019)

DaveKS said:


> It almost sounds like you extremely overdosed tank. Leaves melting off from transfer/new tank shock normal. Whole colony of most plants turning to mush there’s something else going on here.
> 
> What are your water PH, GH and KH?
> 
> How much of stuff you listed before did you dose and how often.


Ph is 7.4
Idk what the gh and kh are. 

I immediately dosed Easy carbon, easy green, and easy iron made by aquarium co op. 

Every other day for a week. It's 2 pump of each for a 20 gallon tank. 

Before I read in this forum that I should not have been dosing right away. Then I did a big water change and stopped dosing but by then it was way to late.

I have new plants ordered. How long before I should dose? After I plant them?


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## DaveKS (Apr 2, 2019)

Every aquarium keeper needs to know PH, KH and GH along with phosphate and nitrates. 

Dosing, being you have no CO2 and most your plant selections were slow growing/low uptake plants should have been 1 pump twice a week to start with, that’s 2 ml total per week. Easy green has iron already so with those plants and no CO2 you probably don’t even need extra iron. If you do use it it should be at 1/2 recommended rate and not dosed on same day as easy green, you were basically doubling down on iron overdosing. 

So basically between tissue culture transfer shock and basically dosing at 3x rate needed you hit your plants with a double whammy. 

Also I would not be hitting tissue culture transplants with anything but a light, light dose of glut based carbon products (easy carbo).

It’s ok to lightly dose new plants. I’d add one pump easy green, no extra iron to tank before next plants come in. Then take 1 gal distilled or ro water from market and add 1 pump of easy green then use that gal to keep tank topped off for evaporation throughout week. Then once plants growth picks up and plant mass increases in tank start adding 2ml easy green to that gal of top off water. When things really get going good you can probably move up to 3 pumps per week in that jug, maybe. 

Doing the dosing in top off water keeps levels of fert at a more constant flat line throughout week. No big spikes or nutrient drop offs.


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## MtAnimals (May 17, 2015)

I've been having great results in 2 soil based tanks using thrive-c from nilocg,it's a low tech formula,probably pretty similar to easy green,but I've just been dosing 1 squirt/10 gal at water changes.

link to the journal

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/12-tank-journals/1299717-mtanimals-75-gallon.html


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## YodaFishGrl (Nov 11, 2019)

DaveKS said:


> Every aquarium keeper needs to know PH, KH and GH along with phosphate and nitrates.
> 
> Dosing, being you have no CO2 and most your plant selections were slow growing/low uptake plants should have been 1 pump twice a week to start with, that’s 2 ml total per week. Easy green has iron already so with those plants and no CO2 you probably don’t even need extra iron. If you do use it it should be at 1/2 recommended rate and not dosed on same day as easy green, you were basically doubling down on iron overdosing.
> 
> ...



Thank you so much for the information. I will do this and see how it works out. Plants won't be here for about a week. I got some from the market I hope it's correct. 








When you say top off, I assume that means I shouldn't be doing any significant water changes ?


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## DaveKS (Apr 2, 2019)

Yes, distilled is fine. It’s about as pure as you can get. Drinking water at store works also, just check label and make sure it purified by reverse osmosis. You want distilled or RO because they have no chlorine and you don’t want to use dechlorination compounds in a jug with ferts in it that’s setting for few days.

By top off I mean keeping water level up to make up for evaporation through out week. Think of it as feeding your plant and making up for evaporation every or every other day. When you get livestock just make it part of daily feeding routine. Feed your fish, feed your plants. Takes about 10sec out of your day to pour a cup or 2 of water in your tank. If you miss a day just make up for it the next. Dose is so low that if you have to double up and makeup for missing day. 

Basically you want keep nutrient levels in your tank constant, never in excess and also never in complete depletion, both of those scenarios will allow algae to get the advantage.

What’s needed for water changes is another subject. Most soil substrate require many water changes at 1st then you gradually slack off till you get to about 4weeks in. Once you reach that point your water changes will probably run 25-30% a week as a norm. Maybe bit more if you heavily stock.


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## Aku Sakana (Jul 27, 2017)

A planted aquarium is like a bonsai tree.
It takes time , effort and patience. 
Your tank needs to balance and if you keep buying new plants they will die . 
People new to planted tanks should start with frogbit, hygrophila siamensis and wisteria/water sprite. These plants together will tell you when your tank is ready for the plants that you want to buy by filling out the tank with strong green growth. 
Let these plants grow for a few months and during that time read up on light and it's effect on nutrient uptake . Led lights are very strong and can push the plants further than what you can provide. 
Turn off the light and wait for the cycle to finish. No ammonia or nitrite. 
Add a few fish and keep testing water. 
You need to have a strong bacteria colony to convert ammonia at a fast rate before adding plants .
Be patient and don't waist money on pricey plants until the tank is ready. 

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## YodaFishGrl (Nov 11, 2019)

DaveKS said:


> Yes, distilled is fine. It’s about as pure as you can get. Drinking water at store works also, just check label and make sure it purified by reverse osmosis. You want distilled or RO because they have no chlorine and you don’t want to use dechlorination compounds in a jug with ferts in it that’s setting for few days.
> 
> By top off I mean keeping water level up to make up for evaporation through out week. Think of it as feeding your plant and making up for evaporation every or every other day. When you get livestock just make it part of daily feeding routine. Feed your fish, feed your plants. Takes about 10sec out of your day to pour a cup or 2 of water in your tank. If you miss a day just make up for it the next. Dose is so low that if you have to double up and makeup for missing day.
> 
> ...


Should I use the same method when I do a water change ? Use the bottled water with the fert in it ? Or just tap when it's that large of an amount of water.


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## DaveKS (Apr 2, 2019)

That would depend on your tap water parameters. If PH/hardness high might want to mix 3 parts tap, 1 part distilled to reach optimal hardness/PH for your tank change water. 

Also in reading your tap waters PH you always want to let water set in a bucket/container open to air overnight or 24hrs so it equalizes to atmospheric gases. Taking your tap waters PH reading 5min out of tap most the time won’t give you proper PH reading.


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## YodaFishGrl (Nov 11, 2019)

DaveKS said:


> That would depend on your tap water parameters. If PH/hardness high might want to mix 3 parts tap, 1 part distilled to reach optimal hardness/PH for your tank change water.
> 
> Also in reading your tap waters PH you always want to let water set in a bucket/container open to air overnight or 24hrs so it equalizes to atmospheric gases. Taking your tap waters PH reading 5min out of tap most the time won’t give you proper PH reading.


I tested the pH a few times over the first 2 weeks and always got 7.4-7.6

I ordered a gh/kh test kit to go with my master kit. Will be here from Amazon Tomorrow, and I will test all the parameters for everything when it gets here. 

I will age the water like you said.


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## YodaFishGrl (Nov 11, 2019)

I testex the gh and the kh. It was hard to keep consistent sized drops. So I test it twice. 

Test 1
Gh 12
Kh 3

Test 2 
Gh 13
Kh 3


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## DaveKS (Apr 2, 2019)

So is that the tap water or tank water?


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## YodaFishGrl (Nov 11, 2019)

Did a 20 % water change sunday. Mixed in 1 gallon of DI water and a small amount of easy green. 

Tested the waters today. 

Gh15
Kh 3 
Ph 6.8
Amonia 1.5
Nitrite 2
Nitrate 40


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## Aku Sakana (Jul 27, 2017)

Been keeping aquariums for 30 years and you can add ro water , DI water and holy water if you want but if your .... water has 
Ammonia 1.5 
Nitrite. ...
And high light without c02 

You get ....



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## Aku Sakana (Jul 27, 2017)

99 problems


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## YodaFishGrl (Nov 11, 2019)

Aku Sakana said:


> Been keeping aquariums for 30 years and you can add ro water , DI water and holy water if you want but if your .... water has
> Ammonia 1.5
> Nitrite. ...
> And high light without c02
> ...



I have a low light
I added DI water 4 days ago
I took out 5 gallons of tap and added back 2 gallons of tap and 3 gallons of DI water.
Should I add more Do water then that?


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## DaveKS (Apr 2, 2019)

I think he's pointing out that if you got 1.5 ammonia and also nitrites your tanks not cycled.

Stop water changes so ammonia stays at 3ppm and then keep it there till tank is cycled. Until cycle is complete you can't add any livestock. ammonia wound hurt plants unless its really high, only change enough water to keep nitrites under 5-6ppm.


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## YodaFishGrl (Nov 11, 2019)

Tank update

Got some new plants in. Went for more beginner options. Also was able to rescue my crpt roots and plant them again. Have tiny little leaves coming in.


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## MtAnimals (May 17, 2015)

Nothing wrong with "beginner" plants.Many of the easiest "beginner" plants are my favorites,because I know they'll grow in nice and be somewhat forgiving.You'll have to experiment and see which plants grow well for you.


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## Boostr (Dec 8, 2016)

Crypts are high count melters, but always grow back. Why are you using Easy Iron and Easy Carbon, Isn't all that in Easy Green except the Carbon?


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