# The fight against hair algae



## Stan_the_man (Dec 8, 2017)

Hi all,

I am new to this forum and was looking for some help with my hair algae problem. I've had the tank running for about a year or so a few months ago and that was when the hair algae, spot algae and dust algae started to kick in. I perform 30-50% water changes once every week and I've read on the forum many times that this algae isn't directly related to the amount of nitrate/phosphate but rather the CO2. I recently increased the CO2, dos excel and purchased a hydro pump to help better circulate co2 throughout the tank but it doesn't seem to help. I perform my water change on Sunday and by Thursday, the tank plants are covered in algae again. Any advice? Thanks! 

Specs: 
65gallon tank 18.4 in L x 36.4 in W x 25 in H
white gravel
1x 36" nicrew light, 2x 24" current marine 
CO2 injected
PPS PRO green solution dosing


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## Raith (Jun 27, 2014)

I have heard that mollies eat hair algae, but I am not sure which one.


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## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

Have you increased fertlizer since adding CO2? Also, what is your photoperiod? I'm not familiar with the Current Marines (non-Pro, right?), but maybe a little less light might help? I know the Nicrew doesn't really add much of anything useful PAR-wise 

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## tejasn324 (Dec 13, 2017)

show pic of the algae.


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## king kong (Jul 2, 2012)

whatever algae you have I wish I could have it....


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## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

The nicrew light is a low-end light, but I wasn't able to find any PAR/PUR values on it. Ideally, you should try to get those. From what I was able to see, it is a low-med light in terms of growth capability. Plants use the red and blue spectrum of the the rainbow and not the middle yellow-green area. So, while a light may appear bright to our eyes, it may not be bright in those areas. However, algae will take any and all light. So, this could - not necessarily, though - be part of the problem. It would be best if you could determine the quality of the light.

Start by maximizing your CO2. Since you have CO2 injection, I'd push it to the limit. I assume that you have fish. So, push the CO2 up a little every day until your fish are gasping at the surface, then back down. It will take your fish about an hour to respond. Repeat this until you find the point of stability. I'd also get a drop checker (read about them here on TPT) to monitor CO2 levels. I like the Fluval (Amazon ~$10). CO2 should come on an hour before the lights do and shut off an hour before the lights do. You always want the CO2 present and plentiful while lights are on or you run into problems.

From there, you go into the world of ferts. Study up on EI (Estimative Index) and get nitrate, phosphate and GH/KH test kits (each ~$10) to help maintain proper levels. Start at full EI dosing and watch your plants for growth. As you measure nitrates and phosphates, you will be able to tell whether or not you can back off of the EI dosing levels. With plenty of CO2 and ferts, you may be able to tell if your light is strong enough to handle a full EI dosing in this way.

Long term, hair algae is controlled by healthy plants and plenty of them. GSA/GDA are also controlled in this way but phoshpates in the area of 3-5 ppm will also help control them. On a short term basis, I have dosed 1.5 ml /gal of Excel ONCE in a week (between water changes) and it kills hair algae without affecting fish, Amanos or BB.


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## litzel (Oct 25, 2017)

Zebra nerite snails are pretty good on eating algae too, had brown algae issues all over the place and the pair of snails i got has helped a lot.


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## Stan_the_man (Dec 8, 2017)

Bump:


Deanna said:


> The nicrew light is a low-end light, but I wasn't able to find any PAR/PUR values on it. Ideally, you should try to get those. From what I was able to see, it is a low-med light in terms of growth capability. Plants use the red and blue spectrum of the the rainbow and not the middle yellow-green area. So, while a light may appear bright to our eyes, it may not be bright in those areas. However, algae will take any and all light. So, this could - not necessarily, though - be part of the problem. It would be best if you could determine the quality of the light.
> 
> Start by maximizing your CO2. Since you have CO2 injection, I'd push it to the limit. I assume that you have fish. So, push the CO2 up a little every day until your fish are gasping at the surface, then back down. It will take your fish about an hour to respond. Repeat this until you find the point of stability. I'd also get a drop checker (read about them here on TPT) to monitor CO2 levels. I like the Fluval (Amazon ~$10). CO2 should come on an hour before the lights do and shut off an hour before the lights do. You always want the CO2 present and plentiful while lights are on or you run into problems.
> 
> ...


Thanks for reply Deanna. I've updated the CO2 some more and started dosing Excel and that seemed to slowed down the algae growth a bit. I'm also looking into swapping out my Nicrew light for a 36" finnex 24/7 SE one. If I wanted to grow high light plants, would I need 1 or two 2 of these LEDs?


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

You have a tank full of Discus I'd be very careful about how far you push the co2. Co2 does kill. How are you determining you co2 level now. (drop checker, ph drop, kh/ph levels?)


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## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

Stan_the_man said:


> Bump:
> Thanks for reply Deanna. I've updated the CO2 some more and started dosing Excel and that seemed to slowed down the algae growth a bit. I'm also looking into swapping out my Nicrew light for a 36" finnex 24/7 SE one. If I wanted to grow high light plants, would I need 1 or two 2 of these LEDs?


I think that you will need two if you truly want high light, which is >50 PAR at the substrate (a lot of us like PAR in the 60-100 area at the substrate).

Take a look at @clownplanted readings on his Finnex 24/7 at http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1...24-7-planted-par-lux-kelvin-pur-readings.html and ask him any questions about the Finnex you may have. He does good work.

Basically, his tank is about your size and his readings were 42 PAR at the substrate. PAR is cumulative so, depending upon coverage, there will be a lot of your substrate that should have PAR in the 70-80 area with two fixtures.

To interpret the graph (on the left side labelled "Photosynthetic Usable Radiation") that is the PUR reading I mentioned above. The Finnex reading is the black curved line showing you what parts of the spectrum are being transmitted by the Finnex. You can see that it has good readings (58% is good) in the critical blue and red spectrum.


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## Stan_the_man (Dec 8, 2017)

houseofcards said:


> You have a tank full of Discus I'd be very careful about how far you push the co2. Co2 does kill. How are you determining you co2 level now. (drop checker, ph drop, kh/ph levels?)


Yeah, I keep a very close eye on them. I don't increase the co2 unless I'm home so I can monitor around the clock. I also have a drop checker in my tank in the upper right hand corner. Not sure about the KH but PH is steady around 6.0.


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## klinger988 (Jun 6, 2017)

I'm not sure how much hair algae you have but if you manually remove as much as you can and spot treat the remaining algae areas directly with hydrogen peroxide (I use a plastic dropper/pipette) with ~1ml/gallon I have found this very helpful. You can also do the same with the excel that you are already dosing applying it directly to the areas that are most effected. I when I do this I turn my filter off for about an hour to keep the excel and peroxide from mixing to fast. Has been effective for me with no noticeable effects on my fish, snails or amano shrimp.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

Stan_the_man said:


> Yeah, I keep a very close eye on them. I don't increase the co2 unless I'm home so I can monitor around the clock. I also have a drop checker in my tank in the upper right hand corner. Not sure about the KH but PH is steady around 6.0.


Not perfect but you can usually get an idea of the co2 ppm by using a chart like this that combines KH and PH.

Co2 Chart

Also if your PH Is 6.0, what is it degassed out of the tap. Compare the PH in the tank with co2 running vs the PH from water that's been sitting around a while away from the co2. Usually your looking for a 1.0 drop in PH to have good concentrations of co2.


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## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

Stan_the_man said:


> Yeah, I keep a very close eye on them. I don't increase the co2 unless I'm home so I can monitor around the clock. I also have a drop checker in my tank in the upper right hand corner. Not sure about the KH but PH is steady around 6.0.


Just happened to be encountering the CO2 question on another post and am going to steal @Zorfox 's comment:



Zorfox said:


> *My calculator *will compute CO2 levels using PH and KH. Here's the formula I use,
> 
> CO2 = 12.839 * dKH * 10^(6.37 - pH)


His calculator also provides much more than just CO2 calculations. Similar to Rotalabutterfly with added bonuses.


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

I am sorry, but the suggestions posed here to combat hair algae are completely ineffective. Please do not stress your beautiful discus with high CO2, nutrients, and agents like Excel.

Hair algae is not like other algaes. It cannot be reasoned with. Other algaes will go away once you balance the tank, optimize growing conditions. Hair algae will grow in all sorts of conditions, and loves the same conditions that thriving plants do. It will be in your tank forever, waiting to strike and take over, unless you specifically treat it. General oxidizers like H2O2 and glutaraldehyde only make it laugh - you'll kill off some, but not all, and you will be fighting it forever. I have tried such methods in the past; ultimately you only end up stressing or killing livestock while the hair algae survives in the end.

If you want to get rid of the hair algae for good, you will need to treat it specifically instead of just manipulating different tank variables and hoping for the best. API Algaefix will kill it dead; you will observe the hair algae turning white. Unfortunately it is very tough on fish and lethal to invertebrates, so you will need to rehome your livestock for several days or weeks during the course of the treatment (duration depends on severity of the problem). 

In the future quarantine all new plants for several days with Algaefix. I bet you started seeing hair algae when you got a new plant that brought it in.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

That was the basis of my comments as well. I wouldn't start putting together all kinds of "cocktails" with Discus in the tank. I was concerned about OP getting the impression that raising co2 will solve the problems. Now if Co2 is very low, then I do believe raising it to 'normal' levels can have a positive effect. 

With that being said that tank isn't heavily planted, so co2 will only have a marginal effect. It' not an algaecide. It's effectiveness is directly related to plant mass and uptake.


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## Kayak83 (Apr 18, 2017)

I'm in the same boat as the OP. Currently attempting a few days of no light + water changes. I've also chopped off some covered plants and stopped dosing Flourish (still dosing Excel). Diatoms were easier to remove than this stuff!


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## Stan_the_man (Dec 8, 2017)

houseofcards said:


> That was the basis of my comments as well. I wouldn't start putting together all kinds of "cocktails" with Discus in the tank. I was concerned about OP getting the impression that raising co2 will solve the problems. Now if Co2 is very low, then I do believe raising it to 'normal' levels can have a positive effect.
> 
> With that being said that tank isn't heavily planted, so co2 will only have a marginal effect. It' not an algaecide. It's effectiveness is directly related to plant mass and uptake.


Thanks a lot for the feedback. I just received the Finnex 24/7 and was wondering what my starting settings should be. Should I just set it at the 24/7 mode and see how that goes and begin tweaking it from there? Also, I'm currently in the works of getting a lot more plants as well as planting my trimmings to get a more heavily planted tank.


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## Surf (Jun 13, 2017)

> I am sorry, but the suggestions posed here to combat hair algae are completely ineffective. Please do not stress your beautiful discus with high CO2, nutrients, and agents like Excel.


Sorry I disagree with this based on my own experience and that of others. Hair algae Thrives in water with insufficient nutrients for plant growth. IF you have a nutrient deficiency you are going to have minimal to know plant growth and lots of hair algae. The key to fighting it is to insure you have no plant nutrient deficiencies. 

The PPS Pro (Perpetual Preservation System) calls for a KNO3 concentration of 0.1ppm and a Phosphate level of 1.33ppm. Plant normally like nitrogen levels 10 times higher than the phosphorous levels. So many people will run the tank ago 10ppm N and 1 ppm P. Many people operate at these levels without significant algae issues. 

The other nutrients that commonly cause problems is calcium Most fertilizers don't include it even though plants need more calcium than phosphorous So calcium deficiencies are a common problem. One solution I am using is to add a sulfate GH booster such as Sachem Equilibrium. Us it to boost the GH to about 2 degrees above tap water harness. Equilibrium will supply all the calcium ,magnesium and sulfur the plants need.

After that the only place where deficiencies can occur are in the trace nutrient fertilizer. Most people use CSM+B and adjust levels as needed to get the best result. If you can cover all plant nutrients without any deficiencies algae will struggle to get the nutrients it needs.


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

@Surf what if I told you I have run many tanks completely devoid of hair algae that have experienced countless mishaps with autodosing resulting in severe nutrient deficiencies? This happens because I made sure to avoid introducing hair algae in the first place. Conversely, I have had tanks with ample nutrients and copious quickly growing plants that also run rampant with hair algae, because as I said, hair algae can thrive in the same conditions as healthy plants.

In a decade of planted tank keeping (which has involved countless battles against hair algae) this trend is very obvious to me.


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## DennisSingh (Nov 8, 2004)

I'd just give up on the fight. Uve got beautiful discus in there. If u want their health n shape up to par or beyond goto simplydiscus and read some care there. Or also listen to what axelrodi, has to say, he studies n observes this boring aspect of aquariums like hair algae, parasites, and other boring expertises. He can truly help u get rid of it


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

Surf said:


> The PPS Pro (Perpetual Preservation System) calls for a KNO3 concentration of 0.1ppm and a Phosphate level of 1.33ppm.


Please, … where do you find such nonsense? 



Stan_the_man said:


> Hi all,
> I am new to this forum and was looking for some help with my hair algae problem.


Hi
You have a very different situation. The priority should be the Discus, then … the plants and algae. 
Discus fish are large sensitive fish. They produce enormous amount of waste therefor weekly water changes are essential. The water changes frequency and quantity should be determined by monitoring NO3 levels, levels of 10 to 20 ppm at most. 

Plants and algae. Algae problem is a result of unhealthy plants. We know plants need nutrients to be healthy while the discus fish are already producing more than enough NO3 and PO4. What is missing is the other nutrients, K, Mg, Trace Elements and moderate CO2. Assuming the tap has sufficient Ca and KH. 

When somebody tell you to crank up CO2 until Discus starts gasping at the surface are telling you that they never raised such delicate fish before. Levels of 10 – 15 ppm is needed at most in such configurations.

For the K and Mg follow the water changed quantity. Levels of 20 ppm of K and 5 ppm of Mg are appropriate. Per each 10 gall of new water add 1.78g K2SO4 and 2g MgSO4. For trace elements the PPS-Pro Solution #2 dose per 65 gall is 13 drops to add 0.01 ppm TE(Fe) daily. There is no need for the Solution #1.

Well, … feed the beautiful Discus as much as you can!


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## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

Stan_the_man said:


> I am new to this forum and was looking for some help with my hair algae problem.


I disagree that hitting hair algae with glut does not work. It’s a matter of hitting it with a sufficient quantity of glut and most people are terrified of doing this. Occasionally, when I disrupt the balance in my tank, I get an outbreak of hair algae, This just happened last month due to lighting and trace experiments. It was a massive outbreak appearing on most plants (mainly at lower levels) and some fixtures. I completely killed it within four days using the correct levels of glut.

The key is finding the right amount to do the job as a function of the biomass and to do it once a week ONLY until the hair algae no longer returns (via recovery of the plant balance). For example; due to my current biomass, I found (after three weeks of increasing dosages beginning at 1.1 ml / gal), that 2 ml / gal of Metricide in my 26 gallons of water was needed, which is the equivalent of about 3 ml / gal of Excel. It used to be lower when my biomass was smaller. Since plants love glut, they will consume a lot of the dose within a few hours, thus the need to find the optimal level to kill the hair algae over a ~6-hour period.

This is far, far, above accepted limits and people will tell me that I might as well detonate a nuclear bomb in my tank. However, not a single fish (wide range of community types - including corys), Amano, plant or BB has shown any sign of distress. I even have thriving anacharis in my tank, which melts under glut dosing but, again, it is the single dose that allows them to withstand it. Regular dosing kills anacharis even at recommended levels. I should also note that none of my fish have grown two heads. The hair algae will turn the characteristic orange-brown in about four days, indicating that it has died.

Preparation: maximize oxygen. Glut is a reducing agent and will lower oxygen levels. At high doses, such as above, oxygen depletion may be high enough to be deadly to fish. I maintain a heavy surface rippling (two Hydor Koralia 240 GPH pumps pointed at the surface) all the time. In my case, this is enough gas exchange to compensate for any O2 reduction that may be caused by the glut.

I had discus a long time ago, but can’t recall how sensitive they are so, rely upon others regarding them. However, neons are sensitive and they have no problems with it. This is only for hair algae. Other typed, such as GSA and GDA, are not affected by it.



Axelrodi202 said:


> I am sorry, but the suggestions posed here to combat hair algae are completely ineffective. Please do not stress your beautiful discus with high CO2, nutrients, and agents like Excel.
> 
> Hair algae is not like other algaes. It cannot be reasoned with. Other algaes will go away once you balance the tank, optimize growing conditions. General oxidizers like H2O2 and glutaraldehyde only make it laugh - you'll kill off some, but not all, and you will be fighting it forever. I have tried such methods in the past; ultimately you only end up stressing or killing livestock while the hair algae survives in the end.


You may want to try this approach the next time you get an outbreak, although I agree that this is a short-term approach and the long-term solution is healthy plants.


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## bud40oz (Dec 9, 2017)

this is a proper seachem schedule for 72 gallons, adjust as needed.. this is from the owner of a very nice pet store in lansing mi. i trust him 100%


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

bud40oz said:


> this is a proper seachem schedule for 72 gallons, adjust as needed.. this is from the owner of a very nice pet store in lansing mi. i trust him 100%


I've been there my friend, and know the store and met the owner. Advice is pretty suspect sometimes.

Keep in mind they are in the business of selling Seachem products.


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

Deanna said:


> You may want to try this approach the next time you get an outbreak, although I agree that this is a short-term approach and the long-term solution is healthy plants.


That's the problem. Hair algae is not like other algaes which are inhibited by healthy plants. Certain types, especially Spirogyra love and thrive in the same conditions healthy plants do. Thus it is a matter of preventing their import into their tank, or rendering them fully extinct via chemical means if they do make it in.


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## Stan_the_man (Dec 8, 2017)

Thank you everyone for the awesome advice. The discus are my top priority but they seem quite happy and healthy so I turned my attention to my plants. Ever since I got my finnex 24/7 plus SE, the hair algae has slowly started to go away. Turns out light was my biggest issue. I also ditched my 2x 24" current marine and got a 36" current USA satellite plus pro. Theres still some tweaking that needs to be done because although now I don't really see any green algae I'm starting to see signs of black bear algae. I just reduced the on time to about ~6 hours and also turned down the intensity on the current USA to 50%, gonna see where this takes me and hopefully the BBA will go away.


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