# African Clawed Frog Planted...



## DaBears (Sep 11, 2012)

Hey, posted this in general but was hoping id get more opinions here about what I am planning on doing for a low-tech african clawed frog planted nano tank. Let me know what you think.

Hey everyone. I am planning a planted nano tank for my African clawed frog and stumbled upon this:

http://www.petco.com/product/14978/P...escription-tab

What do you think?
My plan was to stock:
1 African Clawed Frog
1-2 Snails
Various low-med light plants.

The tank is 6.6 gallons, acrylic, comes with a HOB filter, 15w fluorescent (that's the only detail it gives on the light). Seems like all I'd need is a heater. I'll also grab some driftwood and was thinking seachem fluorite for a substrate. I would use seachem prime with tap water for water changes, etc. Also, dose seachem fluorish as necessary once I start getting lots of plants. What do u guys think? This would be my first planted tank, so any advice would be great! Anything you'd recommend, and do u think this would be a good tank for what I want to do? Only $39 too! Thanks.


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## Imi Statue (Apr 6, 2012)

Sorry but that page link just isn't working. Site says it can't find it.


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## QQQUUUUAADDD (Feb 26, 2012)

African Clawed Frogs grow much too big for only a 6.6 gallon tank.


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## DaBears (Sep 11, 2012)

http://www.petco.com/product/14978/Petco-Bookshelf-Freshwater-Fish-Aquarium.aspx

That work?


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## Imi Statue (Apr 6, 2012)

DaBears said:


> http://www.petco.com/product/14978/Petco-Bookshelf-Freshwater-Fish-Aquarium.aspx
> 
> That work?


Yes, I think that one clawed frog, or 3-4 smaller Dwarf African fogs would be nice there. Along with a couple Nerite's or similar sized snails.


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## QQQUUUUAADDD (Feb 26, 2012)

No, african clawed frogs can grow up to 5 inches. Don't think that could fit in a 6.6 gallon tank.

2 african dwarf frogs would work nicely though.


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## Imi Statue (Apr 6, 2012)

Females only get to 5",

and like most frogs if the environment is kept tidy with very good filtration you can expect that size even in tanks like this 6.6. 

I've kept single females in 5 gallon normal tanks and they reached full growth and lived quite a long life, so yes they can, and will do just fine.

http://allaboutfrogs.org/info/species/clawed.html


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## DaBears (Sep 11, 2012)

I already have the frog, and he is a male, so he's only gonna get 3-3.5". Since this tank is 23" and he is gonna be the only inhabitant plus a snail or two and a bunch of plants I figured it'd be ok. U guys think the light will be good for a low-tech tank? Thanks.


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## Imi Statue (Apr 6, 2012)

DaBears said:


> I already have the frog, and he is a male, so he's only gonna get 3-3.5". Since this tank is 23" and he is gonna be the only inhabitant plus a snail or two and a bunch of plants I figured it'd be ok. U guys think the light will be good for a low-tech tank? Thanks.



The light is pretty dim but low light enduring plants will probably be ok. I think the frog will simply uproot them when moving around, so plants like Java Moss or Fern attached to wood or stones would be best. Maybe invest in a better light if the plants are really what you are wanting to see grow better.

I used a CFL type system with a bulb in the 5500k range to keep plants in the 5 gal. 

More importantly is the quality of filtration. Larger, with good water circulation is better. I had an adjustable flow canister filter at the time so I could adjust flow for my needs. Something that turns the water over 5-10 times an hour will be sufficient, and yes water changes would be 50% or more at least once a week.


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## Acro (Jul 7, 2012)

Most good frog sources will say that a ACF should be kept in a 10 gallon.

This link:


Imi Statue said:


> http://allaboutfrogs.org/info/species/clawed.html


Talks about the Grow-A-Frog kits that are hardly proper housing for a ACF.

Can a ACF live in a 6 gallon tank? Sure. Can a human live in a closet? Sure. Would either be happy? Not likely.

Please do more research! There are many wonderful frog forums out there and many ACF care sheets and books. Please find them and read up!

Good Luck.


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## DaBears (Sep 11, 2012)

Acro said:


> Most good frog sources will say that a ACF should be kept in a 10 gallon.
> 
> This link:
> 
> ...


This tank is actually going to be longer than a 10 gallon. I realize it is not 100% ideal but based on what I've seen/read I think he will be fine. Comparing a human living in a closet vs the entire world is hardly a good comparison for a 7 gallon tank vs a 10 gallon tank haha.


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## Imi Statue (Apr 6, 2012)

DaBears said:


> This tank is actually going to be longer than a 10 gallon. I realize it is not 100% ideal but based on what I've seen/read I think he will be fine. Comparing a human living in a closet vs the entire world is hardly a good comparison for a 7 gallon tank vs a 10 gallon tank haha.


Agreed.


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## fplata (May 20, 2012)

Getting into the ethical part of the hobby. Is a frog really happy in a tank regardless of size? Maybe he is happy because he is not going to get eaten or maybe he just does not have a point of comparison. I really don't know, but 10 sounds better than 6, it's near 100% larger and I know if my closet was almost double it's size I would be a bit more comfortable. Keep that frog happy


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## Imi Statue (Apr 6, 2012)

fplata said:


> Getting into the ethical part of the hobby. Is a frog really happy in a tank regardless of size? Maybe he is happy because he is not going to get eaten or maybe he just does not have a point of comparison. I really don't know, but 10 sounds better than 6, it's near 100% larger and I know if my closet was almost double it's size I would be a bit more comfortable. Keep that frog happy


Why are you going there? It has nothing to do with "Ethics"!:icon_roll You people would love to put more cost and larger quarters for the frog when it just isn't necessary. Frogs don't have the same requirements as Humans or Fish. They do not need as much room period.

The Frog will be just as happy in 6.6 gallons as 10! I've seen Pac-Man frogs live in their entire life and grow to 8" across in a standard 5 gallon bucket. 

Imi


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## fplata (May 20, 2012)

It has nothing to do with cost, I bet that pac man frog living in a bucket was very happy. Come on man! You people? What does that mean? Do what ever you want to do with your pets. However, expect opinions, and people disagreeing with you when post your opinion. Nothing you have said about frogs is a fact period. You people!!


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## ony (Apr 1, 2011)

Imi Statue said:


> Why are you going there? It has nothing to do with "Ethics"!:icon_roll You people would love to put more cost and larger quarters for the frog when it just isn't necessary. Frogs don't have the same requirements as Humans or Fish. They do not need as much room period.
> 
> The Frog will be just as happy in 6.6 gallons as 10! I've seen Pac-Man frogs live in their entire life and grow to 8" across in a standard 5 gallon bucket.
> 
> Imi


How do you know when a frog or any other small animal is happy? Since they can't tell us I think the best way to go about things is to keep them as healthy as possible and give them enough space to exhibit natural behaviours. To provide less than that is putting your own desires before the needs of the animal.


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## PaulG (Oct 10, 2010)

fplata said:


> It has nothing to do with cost, I bet that pac man frog living in a bucket was very happy. Come on man! You people? What does that mean? Do what ever you want to do with your pets. However, expect opinions, and people disagreeing with you when post your opinion. Nothing you have said about frogs is a fact period. You people!!


Imi is actually Ann Romney.


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## dougolasjr (Mar 3, 2010)

I have the petco 6.6 bookshelf tank. I personally can't image a 5 inch frog living in it. Once you add the gravel and deco your probably looking at about 5-6 gallons and about 7-8 inches of height. You could always go with African dwarf frogs which would do much better in a short long tank.


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## DaBears (Sep 11, 2012)

dougolasjr said:


> I have the petco 6.6 bookshelf tank. I personally can't image a 5 inch frog living in it. Once you add the gravel and deco your probably looking at about 5-6 gallons and about 7-8 inches of height. You could always go with African dwarf frogs which would do much better in a short long tank.


I already have the frog and since he's a male he's gonna max out around 3". I've had him for 2 yrs in a 5 gallon. He seems perfectly healthy, just time for an upgrade. For the record, the 6.6 would be nearly twice as long as the tank he's currently living in.


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## Imi Statue (Apr 6, 2012)

PaulG said:


> Imi is actually Ann Romney.


Bee careful what you name people on the forums. They might take offense to it an actually get you kicked off...

Your apology is accepted.


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## DaBears (Sep 11, 2012)

Imi Statue said:


> Bee careful what you name people on the forums. They might take offense to it an actually get you kicked off...
> 
> Your apology is accepted.


I'd take it as a compliment, personally.


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## dougolasjr (Mar 3, 2010)

I say go for it then, and we will wait for the Tank Journal.


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## fplata (May 20, 2012)

DaBears said:


> I'd take it as a compliment, personally.


Absolutely, I find it funny. Oh my! you might get reported. Lets talk about frogs, I bet they don't get offended when you make the live out of a bucket.


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## Michael M (Sep 20, 2012)

It is downright cruel to keep an African Clawed Frog in 6.6 gallons and completely ridiculous to keep them in a 5 gallon tank. If you keep an ACF in such small aquariums, you're doing it wrong and your frog will not live a normal healthy life. These frogs can live up to 15 years or more and I highly doubt you'll see a lifespan even close to that in such an inadequate tank.

These frogs should be kept in a bare minimum of 10 gallons and I think that is even somewhat cruel. The best tank for a single frog is a 20 gallon long. Adding snails will make the situation even worse.

An ACF -can- tolerate poor water conditions (which does not mean they SHOULD be kept in bad conditions, eventually they will succumb to poor conditions and will suffer..) but a snail cannot. A dead snail rots quickly and fouls the water and will kill the frog.

The only acceptable snail to keep with an ACF is an Apple/Mystery snail and these snails ALSO create a lot of waste and WILL die in poor water conditions. Both ACF and snails are -huge- waste creators, ACF poop like goldfish on _*steroids*_, would you put a goldfish in a 6.6 gallon aquarium???

Your frog will also want to swim, he can't swim much in a tank of that size, even if it is a 3 inch male there is not enough space for the frog. You'll also need to lower the water level in a 6.6 so the frog can breath and for plants you'll need add substrate.. your 6.6 gallon is now ~3 gallons.

I keep 3 ACF in a 40 gallon breeder and I assure you they need that space and they are very active swimmers. I couldn't imagine keeping them in anything less..

Think about it this way.. would you keep a German Sheppard in a 2'x2' room full of smoke and it's own feces 24/7? Do you think it would have a long healthy life?

Animals like ACF can't convey the stress you put on them, they have no way of telling you that their health is slowly fading, they may cope for a while but eventually dropsy, red leg, fungus, ammonia burns, ect will occur and the frog will die.. and that will happen I assure you.

Last but not least these frogs are sensitive to fertilizers, so adding them to an aquarium with an ACF which is already in woefully poor conditions will simply exasperate an already really really bad situation.

So if you want an ACF then do it right or don't bother, same goes with any other animal you wish to keep, period.

*ADF (African Dwarf Frogs) would be perfectly fine in a 6.6 gallon, if you want aquatic frogs that's your best option.


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## Steveboos (Apr 7, 2012)

^^^^Great Post and Great information. I really do think we as hobbyists should start to revert to nature at all costs. Get the largest aquarium you can fit/afford and use that, no one EVER said bigger is worse...


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## fplata (May 20, 2012)

^^
^^
100% agree with both of you


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## Michael M (Sep 20, 2012)

Imi Statue said:


> Why are you going there? It has nothing to do with "Ethics"!:icon_roll You people would love to put more cost and larger quarters for the frog when it just isn't necessary. Frogs don't have the same requirements as Humans or Fish. They do not need as much room period.
> 
> The Frog will be just as happy in 6.6 gallons as 10! I've seen Pac-Man frogs live in their entire life and grow to 8" across in a standard 5 gallon bucket.
> 
> Imi


Xenopus Laevis (Clawed Frogs) are not the same as normal frogs. There is very little about that that is relevant to the way we keep other more terrestrial amphibians. They are both predator and scavengers and very active swimmers. Yes a pac man frog does not need much space and they lie dormant for long periods of a time but comparing a pac man frog to an african clawed frog is retarded, they are nothing alike and their husbandry is COMPLETELY different.

These are fully aquatic frogs and their husbandry is much more akin to fish than it is to a pac man frog. Xenopus are very active swimmers and produce a LOT of waste. Why would you keep a frog in 5 gallons of water when it produces more waste than a goldfish? I think we would both agree that a goldfish would suffer and die in a 5 gallon tank... right?

You say your frog lived "quite a long time", did it live for over 10 years? Because these frogs have been known to live over 20 years if kept correctly.

I see a lot of posts on ACF forums about health issues like dropsy, bloat, red leg, fungus, burns, and I assure you that 99% of the time these problems stem from improper conditions people keep their frog in. Poor conditions stem from keeping these frogs in unfiltered and small aquariums. These are very hardy and long lived animals but every animal has a breaking point and keeping ACF in such small aquariums are a recipe for disaster. If you care about your animals, you should learn how to properly care for them.

To the OP. Get a 20 gallon long tank, a HOB filter rated for 40 gallons or more (whispers work OK), skip the heater (these frogs thrive at 68-72F which is room temperature), and keep a lid with no gaps on it so the frog does not escape.

If you want plants stick with floating plants like water sprite, amazon frogbit, wistera is also another good one. These frogs really like floating plants, you can get a little driftwood cave since these frogs like having a place to retreat to since they're skittish. Anubias and Java Fern works fine too, these can be attached to driftwood.

Overall these are not very demanding animals and with these few things your frog will be very happy and live a long time.

What I've suggested should be about the same price as your 'nano' tank and your frog will be much happier and you can enjoy your pet for years and years rather than watching it suffer and die after a year tops....

I have a very nice low-tech 'planted' ACF 40 gallon breeder tank and I will gladly show you some pictures if you want some good suggestions.


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## FriendsNotFood (Sep 21, 2010)

I have to somewhat agree with everyone here... I had an ACF for 17 years (I miss him!). He never lived in anything smaller than a 10 and spent the last 5 or so years of his life in a 15. 15 gallons with a strong filter was just about perfect.

I also have a Petco bookshelf tank and it's just about the right size for the betta that lives there, so no, I wouldn't put an adult ACF in there. Even the males grow to be quite a bit bigger than 3 inches. 3 inches is just the body length, not counting legs. They're incredibly active swimmers and swim laps in their tank all day long.

Moreover, your frog is going to uproot pretty much any plant you put in your tank the second he gets startled and tries to find a place to hide. 

I'm confused by whoever said you have to lower the water level for these frogs though, especially in a Petco bookshelf tank that's the height of a 2.5 gallon.


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## Michael M (Sep 20, 2012)

FriendsNotFood said:


> I have to somewhat agree with everyone here... I had an ACF for 17 years (I miss him!). He never lived in anything smaller than a 10 and spent the last 5 or so years of his life in a 15. 15 gallons with a strong filter was just about perfect.
> 
> I also have a Petco bookshelf tank and it's just about the right size for the betta that lives there, so no, I wouldn't put an adult ACF in there. Even the males grow to be quite a bit bigger than 3 inches. 3 inches is just the body length, not counting legs. They're incredibly active swimmers and swim laps in their tank all day long.
> 
> ...


I may have said that, but for good reason. I feel you should lower the water level by 2 inches from the top so the frog has room to surface for air and you need a lid for these frogs since as you probably know, they are awesome at escaping (mine someone got through a 1/2 inch gap in a glass lid where a whisper filter clip ran under the lid so it wasn't a 'tight' fit.. but luckily I found him!).

I think most people with ACF lower the water ~4 inches or so to reduce escape attempts, they're not uncommon. I keep mine about 2 inches from the top but my glass lid has zero gaps now and so far so good.

I've had good luck with my frogs and plants. It really depends, stuff like dwarf hair grass and ludwiga just didn't work. My moneywort and wisteria stays planted though, I tend to wedge it in between driftwood though and that works out alright for me.


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## DaBears (Sep 11, 2012)

Michael M said:


> Xenopus Laevis (Clawed Frogs) are not the same as normal frogs. There is very little about that that is relevant to the way we keep other more terrestrial amphibians. They are both predator and scavengers and very active swimmers. Yes a pac man frog does not need much space and they lie dormant for long periods of a time but comparing a pac man frog to an african clawed frog is retarded, they are nothing alike and their husbandry is COMPLETELY different.
> 
> These are fully aquatic frogs and their husbandry is much more akin to fish than it is to a pac man frog. Xenopus are very active swimmers and produce a LOT of waste. Why would you keep a frog in 5 gallons of water when it produces more waste than a goldfish? I think we would both agree that a goldfish would suffer and die in a 5 gallon tank... right?
> 
> ...


Wow. Tons of new info that I have never heard before. Appreciate it a lot and will definitely reconsider the tank. Some questions...
Do plants do ok without a heater too?
I think u mentioned these frogs being sensitive to ferts...I was not going to do much fertilizing, just some seachem fluorish as directed. Will this be ok?
Is seachem fluorite an ok substrate for ACF?
I would love to see some pics of your set-up!
Thx for all the info!


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## Michael M (Sep 20, 2012)

DaBears said:


> Wow. Tons of new info that I have never heard before. Appreciate it a lot and will definitely reconsider the tank. Some questions...
> Do plants do ok without a heater too?
> I think u mentioned these frogs being sensitive to ferts...I was not going to do much fertilizing, just some seachem fluorish as directed. Will this be ok?
> Is seachem fluorite an ok substrate for ACF?
> ...


Hey there, sorry for the late reply.

Plants do fine without a heater, my tank stays around 70F, which is in the cooler sub tropical range. I don't think many plants need warm water specifically.

Frogs are very sensitive to the heavy metals in fertilizers. I've written SeaChem and they responded back that their FlourishTabs are OK for amphibians but I can only assume they are safe because they are placed deep in the substrate and aren't present in the water column, this is only useful for plants which are heavy root feeders, like crypts. I'd just avoid fertilizers all together, if you're doing a low tech tank you'll probably wind up with more algae and poisoned frogs before you see much benefit for your plants.

I personally wouldn't use fluorite because your frogs can become impacted from swallowing it, the risk may not be extreme but these frogs can live 15 years or more so the chances of it eventually swallowing some of it are likely. 

I use sand, I think a good sand for ACF are CaribSea's Moonlight Sand or Sunset Gold.. these aren't AWESOME for planting but they've worked OK for me. The sand is very fine and if they swallow some, it won't impact them. You could possibly use a substrate that holds plants better then add a layer of sand on top, that would work fine I think but I just use sand and my plants haven't gone anywhere.

When I get home I will post some pictures of my set up. It's only 3 months old and it's really filled in quite nicely. My wisteria is out of control and need trimmed badly, my crypt is doing well, my water sprite and frog bit/dwarf water lettuce has grown in nicely and my Anubias is actually flowering. I use no fertilizers and just have three ACF in a 40B.

Oh one last thing, make sure your frog gets at least 10 gallons, really 20 gallon long is ideal. They are very active frogs, especially at feeding time! Also make sure you get a good lid without any gaps, these guys can and will escape given half a chance. I almost lost a frog because of this but luckily I found him within a few hours.


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## Michael M (Sep 20, 2012)

*Planted ACF 40B Pics*

Here's some snapshots of my 40B with Clawed Frogs.. I know it's not an aquascaping masterpiece by any stretch but the frogs really enjoy it!

This is a 40 gallon breeder tank (which is actually 45 gallons). As you can see these guys love to swim around, get the biggest aquarium you can, trust me. 

These are only 2.5 to 3.5" frogs btw.. they're still juveniles.. about 5-7 months old.


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## Michael M (Sep 20, 2012)

Just so you have an idea of how this tank has grown very rapidly.. this was the tank on 9/16/12:










I did change a LOT of stuff but really I didn't add much besides floating plants and I removed that huge piece of driftwood which wasn't really doing it for me.. I would have to say it grew in nicely!

Again, zero fertilizers, no CO2, and a 36" Finnex Ray2 for lighting. Again, no masterpiece but I am very happy with the results. : )


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## MikeS (Apr 27, 2008)

Michael M, tanks looks great. I was only reading the thread due to curiosity. These guys are pretty cool.

DaBears, not knowing a single thing about these frogs, I googled their care. Every site I clicked on said MINIMUM 10 gallons a frog.


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## Michael M (Sep 20, 2012)

MikeS said:


> Michael M, tanks looks great. I was only reading the thread due to curiosity. These guys are pretty cool.
> 
> DaBears, not knowing a single thing about these frogs, I googled their care. Every site I clicked on said MINIMUM 10 gallons a frog.


Thanks!


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## teatimecrumpet (Dec 1, 2012)

*What the...*

You know this is my very first post on this forum...I joined to post something else but since my gf has an ACF I thought I'd just pop in. 

Who the heck are these people saying it's ok to stick relatively large animals in tanks just double their size? And use defenses like these animals can't talk so they can't tell us they're unhappy or not...so they must be happy!

Look, we're all jerks for keeping any animal in an environment that isn't where they are naturally from even more so for aquatic and avian animals. But we should responsibly keep them or at least admit that we cannot keep them properly when the time comes. 

Seriously, get a 10 gallon, the footprint is not much bigger and the cost is probably just around the same...so why not? You could probably go even cheaper and get one on clist used. 

My gf had one, in one of those 5Gallon acrylic pet carrier for years. Her dad took over and never did a lick of research. It lived in that carrier for 8 years not a single plant, hide, filter, or anything with a water line that was only an inch above it's body flat (the old man thought the frog would drown with more water...yeah...I still have to add water when I go visit). But I bought a 10g and supplies for under $20 from petco. 8 years! Honestly, I think about euthanizing the thing all the time.

Can an ACF live in bad conditions? Sure. But don't just don't.

Sorry.


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## DaBears (Sep 11, 2012)

teatimecrumpet said:


> You know this is my very first post on this forum...I joined to post something else but since my gf has an ACF I thought I'd just pop in.
> 
> Who the heck are these people saying it's ok to stick relatively large animals in tanks just double their size? And use defenses like these animals can't talk so they can't tell us they're unhappy or not...so they must be happy!
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info. U got a ten gallon tank, light, and filter all for under $20??? Please tell me how!


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## DaBears (Sep 11, 2012)

Michael M said:


> Here's some snapshots of my 40B with Clawed Frogs.. I know it's not an aquascaping masterpiece by any stretch but the frogs really enjoy it!
> 
> This is a 40 gallon breeder tank (which is actually 45 gallons). As you can see these guys love to swim around, get the biggest aquarium you can, trust me.
> 
> These are only 2.5 to 3.5" frogs btw.. they're still juveniles.. about 5-7 months old.


Wow. Beautiful tank. Definitely will be getting at least a 10 gallon. You're telling me that plants will do fine with sand, no co2, no ferts, low light, and a frog as only bioload? Can I use tap water if treated with seachem prime? Thanks for all the help!


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## Michael M (Sep 20, 2012)

DaBears said:


> Wow. Beautiful tank. Definitely will be getting at least a 10 gallon. You're telling me that plants will do fine with sand, no co2, no ferts, low light, and a frog as only bioload? Can I use tap water if treated with seachem prime? Thanks for all the help!


Yes to all.


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## Acro (Jul 7, 2012)

I agree with Michael M.

For plants, I would suggest Anubias, Java Fern and Java Moss for your Frog tank. You don't even have to plant any of them, just attach to a rock, wood or aquarium decor.
Good Luck!


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