# What algae is this?



## Rusticdr (Apr 5, 2016)

Looks like GSA in the first pic. Wats ur lighting like.. power and duration. Can u post some more pics.. is there any hair like algae too?

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk


----------



## cejoos (Sep 7, 2016)

*One more photo + info*



Rusticdr said:


> Looks like GSA in the first pic. Wats ur lighting like.. power and duration. Can u post some more pics.. is there any hair like algae too?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk


It is the Current USA Satellite PRO LED. At 24" I have a 44 PAR. The Light haves a 9 hour duration. 

Attached one more photo.

Thanks!


----------



## cejoos (Sep 7, 2016)

Some one more can help eme pls?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## fablau (Feb 7, 2009)

Sure, willing to help! Could you please post an overall tank picture? From what I see, you have some algae, but I don't understand how many plants you have. Also: do you dose? If so, EI or other method? Do you inject Co2? What substrate do you have? What's your tank size? Your filter?


----------



## John Wong (Dec 2, 2015)

Actually I don't think the algae is killing your plant,it is the dying plant attract algae. We will need info such as fert dosing, light, co2, substrate, temperature, water parameter etc to determine what is the cause. 

Sent from my MX4 using Tapatalk


----------



## cejoos (Sep 7, 2016)

*Water parameters*

Lets go:

- Phosphate: 1.5 
- Co2: 30 (I have a atomic difuser)
- The tank is a 42gal Tank
- All my fertilizers are from Seachem (Iron on alternate days as recommended, Flourish Trace, one doses per week, Potassium twice a week. Doses are given as recommended by Seachem.
- Substrante: I'm from Brazil and I use the best national brand. MBreda fertile substrate.
- Temp: 79.9º F
- Water Parameters:

Nitrate: 18mg/l
Nitrite: 0 mg/l
GH: >7ºd
KH: 8ºd
pH: 6.8
Chlorine: 0 mg/l
Carbon Dioxide: 30mg/l

I never vacuumed the substrate because it is a planted aquarium.

I thing is all.

Do you have an idea?


----------



## John Wong (Dec 2, 2015)

Can you post the picture of your tank so that we can have a rough idea of planting density and plant type. 

Sent from my MX4 using Tapatalk


----------



## cejoos (Sep 7, 2016)

John Wong said:


> Can you post the picture of your tank so that we can have a rough idea of planting density and plant type.
> 
> Sent from my MX4 using Tapatalk


For sure! :smile2:

IMG_1367 by Carlos Eduardo Joos, no Flickr

One more detail: I use a 860l/hour Canister and a 1200l/hour Waterfall filter, more to create flow into water.


----------



## John Wong (Dec 2, 2015)

Nice tank, how you keep your sand white?? 
In overall plants doing OK. 
From your info if your test results are accurate your light, nitrate and co2 should be OK. Hopefully there is no blind spots of water flow. 
Phosphate may be a bit low. Maybe you can up a bit and see how green spot algae react. Mine disappeared within 2 weeks time and never came back. 
Micro also a bit low. For me I'm using comprehensive instead of trace because comprehensive have higher concentration. I currently dosing 2 times recommended amount because my tank running co2 and medium light, even though my plant mass is less than yours. Currently just start dosing one week ago for my new tank and see how my plants perform and may adjust accordingly. So, better change to comprehensive or better DIY method if you know where to find(cheaper).

Sometime u need to vacuum your substrate carefully to remove mulm. This can reduce organic matter in water column which in future may cause algae. 




Sent from my MX4 using Tapatalk


----------



## John Wong (Dec 2, 2015)

Hopefully can solve your problems [emoji1] 

Sent from my MX4 using Tapatalk


----------



## cejoos (Sep 7, 2016)

John Wong said:


> Nice tank, how you keep your sand white??
> 
> Phosphate may be a bit low. Maybe you can up a bit and see how green spot algae react.
> Micro also a bit low.
> ...


Thank for you tips!

The secret with the sand are two: Botias (Loach), which filter the sand searching for food. And there is 1cm of sand. With this, the sand don't get dirty.


Now I have some doubts:

How much to you recommend of Phosphate?

How did you get rid of this algae?

Thanks one more time! :wink2:

Bump:

```

```



John Wong said:


> Hopefully can solve your problems [emoji1]
> 
> Sent from my MX4 using Tapatalk


Thanks!!!
But...

What is the better proportion of Phosphate. In some places o read, 1/10 of the nitrate or if I have 25 of Nitrate I need 2.5 of phosphate.

Thank you!


----------



## John Wong (Dec 2, 2015)

My tank is 15gallon. Last time I'm dose 5ml of flourish phosphorus every other day which mean 0.4 ppm per dose. Another cheaper alternatives:
1. Get expired kh2po4 from lab chemical company. 
2 mix kh2po4 into water until no more salt can be dissolved. 
3 1ml of the solution should raise your tank phosphate level by 1ppm. 
4 if you don't want to dose 1ppm, you can dilute the solution with water. 


Sent from my MX4 using Tapatalk


----------



## John Wong (Dec 2, 2015)

If your plants are doing fine, algae will not grow on them.. Algae on plant is a good indication that your plant not doing well. Yours I think just minor phosphate deficiency for ludwigia. 

Sent from my MX4 using Tapatalk


----------



## cejoos (Sep 7, 2016)

John Wong said:


> My tank is 15gallon. Last time I'm dose 5ml of flourish phosphorus every other day which mean 0.4 ppm per dose. Another cheaper alternatives:
> 1. Get expired kh2po4 from lab chemical company.
> 2 mix kh2po4 into water until no more salt can be dissolved.
> 3 1ml of the solution should raise your tank phosphate level by 1ppm.
> ...


What are your Nitrate and Phosphate parameters in ppm?

Bump:


John Wong said:


> If your plants are doing fine, algae will not grow on them.. Algae on plant is a good indication that your plant not doing well. Yours I think just minor phosphate deficiency for ludwigia.
> 
> Sent from my MX4 using Tapatalk



Yes I thing the same way. But....

What is the better phosphate ratio in a planted aquarium?

For example: If I have:

25ppm - Nitrate
I need 2.5ppm - Phosphate? This is my problem. I don't know the proportion of phosphate.


----------



## John Wong (Dec 2, 2015)

Sorry, ppm mean part per million by weight. 

Example, 30mg/l equal 30ppm 

Sent from my MX4 using Tapatalk


----------



## cejoos (Sep 7, 2016)

John Wong said:


> Sorry, ppm mean part per million by weight.
> 
> Example, 30mg/l equal 30ppm
> 
> Sent from my MX4 using Tapatalk


Yes.

But what is the quantity of phosphate that I need, when I have 20ppm of nitrate? 2.0ppm?

:crying:


----------



## John Wong (Dec 2, 2015)

cejoos said:


> Yes.
> 
> But what is the quantity of phosphate that I need, when I have 20ppm of nitrate? 2.0ppm?
> 
> :crying:


Hehe, actually I unable to give definite answer about that. I never use test kit before so I dunno phosphate level in my tank. 
But you can start with 3 ppm, wait for two weeks and see how your plants react. That is how I did it. I read somewhere else that ratio of nitrate and phosphate should be 1:10 but I never tested this before. 
Just remember to calibrate your test kit. 
The algae on your plant will serve as best indicator. Just be patient, change won't come overnight. 






Sent from my MX4 using Tapatalk


----------



## cejoos (Sep 7, 2016)

Ok. Thanks for you tips.

I'll high the phosphate today.


----------



## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

Are you dosing nitrate or relying on fish waste/food and other organics.


----------



## cejoos (Sep 7, 2016)

houseofcards said:


> Are you dosing nitrate or relying on fish waste/food and other organics.


Relying on fish waste/food and other organics, the same for phosphate.


----------



## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

cejoos said:


> Relying on fish waste/food and other organics, the same for phosphate.


For algae control, much better to dose NPK and not rely on waste especially in hi-tech. Your basically letting organics build up to produce nitrate. It' the breakdown of these organic waste products that is the direct cause of algae. 

If you dose and do regular changes you will see better results.


----------



## cejoos (Sep 7, 2016)

houseofcards said:


> For algae control, much better to dose NPK and not rely on waste especially in hi-tech. Your basically letting organics build up to produce nitrate. It' the breakdown of these organic waste products that is the direct cause of algae.
> 
> If you dose and do regular changes you will see better results.


Ok. But...

If I already have a 20ppm Nitrate and I dose NPK. 

Will I increase the amount of nutrients?

If bacteria already produce these nutrients, will I have problem with more algae?

And if I have 20ppm of Nitrate, how much of Nitrate do I have to put if I already have the correct amount? What reference do I use to add nitrates?

Thx!


----------



## John Wong (Dec 2, 2015)

cejoos said:


> Ok. But...
> 
> If I already have a 20ppm Nitrate and I dose NPK.
> 
> ...


Forget to say, if you clear out mulm, dead leaf or anything you going to run out of nitrate as those organic stuff after decay will provide nitrate as end product. However the intermediate product of decay can cause water quality to drop and thus causing algae. 

To dose for nitrate, use kno3 which contain both potassium and nitrate. 

Ps. Inorganic no3 will not cause algae. I calculate the amount required for dosing and let you know leter

Sent from my MX4 using Tapatalk


----------



## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

cejoos said:


> Ok. But...
> 
> If I already have a 20ppm Nitrate and I dose NPK.
> Will I increase the amount of nutrients?
> ...


I thought you weren't dosing Nitrate? :confused1:

Anyway you should be relying on dosing not build-up from waste/food to get to 10-30 nitrate. If the 20 is mostly from waste then get that number dow by doing bigger water changes, less feeding, etc. Dosing nitrate will not cause algae, ammonia from waste breaking down can cause all forms of algae to be a nuisance.


----------



## John Wong (Dec 2, 2015)

Your tank is 42 G 
1ml of saturated KNO3 prepared at 25 degree Celsius will raise your nitrate level for about 1.5ppm 

Sent from my MX4 using Tapatalk


----------



## cejoos (Sep 7, 2016)

John Wong said:


> Forget to say, if you clear out mulm, dead leaf or anything you going to run out of nitrate as those organic stuff after decay will provide nitrate as end product. However the intermediate product of decay can cause water quality to drop and thus causing algae.
> 
> To dose for nitrate, use kno3 which contain both potassium and nitrate.
> 
> ...





houseofcards said:


> I thought you weren't dosing Nitrate? :confused1:
> 
> Anyway you should be relying on dosing not build-up from waste/food to get to 10-30 nitrate. If the 20 is mostly from waste then get that number dow by doing bigger water changes, less feeding, etc. Dosing nitrate will not cause algae, ammonia from waste breaking down can cause all forms of algae to be a nuisance.


Yea... maybe there is my problem.

I make water changes once a month. I only add more water weekly from evaporation.

I'll research how to clean mulm in planted aquarium.

Bump:


John Wong said:


> Your tank is 42 G
> 1ml of saturated KNO3 prepared at 25 degree Celsius will raise your nitrate level for about 1.5ppm
> 
> Sent from my MX4 using Tapatalk


How do you get this number? :nerd:


----------



## John Wong (Dec 2, 2015)

I use tiny hose(5mm diameter) to suck up all those mulm without disturbing substrate. 

Normally I change my water once a week, around 30-50%

Believe me, it's quite boring, if you want to know I will show you my calculation. 
Mass of elements 
K 39
N 14
O 16
KNO3 101
NO3 62 
Solubility of kno3 = 0.4g/ml at 25 degrees
Amount of no3 in 1ml of kno3 solution =0.4*62/101=0.2455g

Your tank is 42G 
42g * 3.78*1000=158760g
0.2455g/158760*1000000=1.5464mg/l



Sent from my MX4 using Tapatalk


----------



## John Wong (Dec 2, 2015)

The way proper way to prepare solution:
1.Bake the salt until no mass change to remove water.
2. Put 40 gram of treated salt into 100 ml container 
3. Top up the container with hot water and stir until all the salt are dissolve in water, then top up with water to 100ml

Just kidding. [emoji23] [emoji23] 

I just dissolve kno3 in water until no more salt can dissolve and just ignore the some minor error. Lol


Sent from my MX4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Bananableps (Nov 6, 2013)

Wait, but is the ludwigia repens actually dying? There are new leaves coming in under the dead ones. That's quite common.


----------



## John Wong (Dec 2, 2015)

Bananableps said:


> Wait, but is the ludwigia repens actually dying? There are new leaves coming in under the dead ones. That's quite common.


Actually after seeing the whole tank I don't think ludwigia is dying, but it does shows sign of deficiency and may not growing at maximum potential. 

Sent from my MX4 using Tapatalk


----------



## cejoos (Sep 7, 2016)

Lol! Thanks!!!!


----------



## cejoos (Sep 7, 2016)

And how I can discover what deficiency I have?

Bump:


John Wong said:


> Actually after seeing the whole tank I don't think ludwigia is dying, but it does shows sign of deficiency and may not growing at maximum potential.
> 
> Sent from my MX4 using Tapatalk


And what kind of deficiency do you thing that I have? Only Phosphate?


----------



## John Wong (Dec 2, 2015)

Ludwigia indicate phosphorus deficiency, if you remove mulm then u also need to dose nitrate. I cannot identify problem of your hydrocotyle but I suspect it may be due to micro. U need to up your micro. Use sachem comprehensive instead of trace or DIY alternative if you can get your hands on. 

Sent from my MX4 using Tapatalk


----------



## John Wong (Dec 2, 2015)

If your plant develop smaller and smaller new leaves and old leaves start to accumulate algae and melt away, then u have nitrogen deficiency. 

Sent from my MX4 using Tapatalk


----------



## cejoos (Sep 7, 2016)

Yesterday I did a 50% water change cleaning mulm. After that I tested the Nitrogen and Phosphate

Nitrogen: 20ppm
Phosphate: 0.70ppm.

After this tests I add Iron, Flourish, Phosphate and Potassium. Maybe cleaning my canister to low the Nitrogen?

What do you suggest me?


----------



## John Wong (Dec 2, 2015)

cejoos said:


> Yesterday I did a 50% water change cleaning mulm. After that I tested the Nitrogen and Phosphate
> 
> Nitrogen: 20ppm
> Phosphate: 0.70ppm.
> ...


Ha, after 50% water change nitrate should cut by half. Did you test your tab water for nitrate? 

Sent from my MX4 using Tapatalk


----------



## cejoos (Sep 7, 2016)

Yes. It was on 0ppm.

On the other side. I don't clean the canister for 2 months.


----------



## John Wong (Dec 2, 2015)

Did you calibrate your test kit? Nitrate is very soluble in water and I doubt that canister filter will retain nitrate. 

Sent from my MX4 using Tapatalk


----------



## cejoos (Sep 7, 2016)

John Wong said:


> Did you calibrate your test kit? Nitrate is very soluble in water and I doubt that canister filter will retain nitrate.
> 
> Sent from my MX4 using Tapatalk


I use Sera for Nitrate Test. I have to calibrate it? :surprise:

If yes. How do I it?

Thx!


----------



## John Wong (Dec 2, 2015)

I never use test kit before so never search for those info. Perhaps you can look for old post or open another post related to this topic 

Sent from my MX4 using Tapatalk


----------



## cejoos (Sep 7, 2016)

John Wong said:


> I never use test kit before so never search for those info. Perhaps you can look for old post or open another post related to this topic
> 
> Sent from my MX4 using Tapatalk


Ok?
What test kit do you use?


----------



## John Wong (Dec 2, 2015)

cejoos said:


> Ok?
> What test kit do you use?


I never use test kit,
I just observe my plant for any sign of deficiency. Example, my tank is new tank, I dose 1ml of comprehensive into my 15gallon tank every other day. recently I found that my hydrocotyle and glosso got white hue which may cause by iron deficiency. I may start dosing extra iron and see how my plant reacts. I know it's not very accurate and some number guy may find it difficult to accept. Sometimes I also observe the bubbles they produce . If suddenly they producing less bubble than normal then something wrong may happen to my plant. 




Sent from my MX4 using Tapatalk


----------



## cejoos (Sep 7, 2016)

John Wong said:


> I never use test kit,
> I just observe my plant for any sign of deficiency. Example, my tank is new tank, I dose 1ml of comprehensive into my 15gallon tank every other day. recently I found that my hydrocotyle and glosso got white hue which may cause by iron deficiency. I may start dosing extra iron and see how my plant reacts. I know it's not very accurate and some number guy may find it difficult to accept. Sometimes I also observe the bubbles they produce . If suddenly they producing less bubble than normal then something wrong may happen to my plant.
> 
> 
> ...


Ok. I'll try to dose more Phosphate. What is the effect of over dosing Phosphate?


----------



## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

John Wong said:


> I never use test kit,
> I just observe my plant for any sign of deficiency.


If you follow EI type dosing guidelines you don't have to wait for deficiency to show up. Once a deficiency is shown it's reactive and your tank is already developing algae from it. That's another reason why you should dose everything and not rely on first waste for macros. Dose, do water changes, repeat.


----------



## cejoos (Sep 7, 2016)

houseofcards said:


> If you follow EI type dosing guidelines you don't have to wait for deficiency to show up. Once a deficiency is shown it's reactive and your tank is already developing algae from it. That's another reason why you should dose everything and not rely on first waste for macros. Dose, do water changes, repeat.


Cool!

Where I find materials for the EI type dosing guidelines?


----------



## crice8 (Aug 2, 2012)

EI based NPK + CSM+B with GH booster - NilocG Aquatics

Dosing Instructions


----------



## cejoos (Sep 7, 2016)

Thank you very much!

When you do it using this method. You change the water weekly? Actually I starting to change water each 15 days.


----------



## crice8 (Aug 2, 2012)

cejoos said:


> Thank you very much!
> 
> When you do it using this method. You change the water weekly? Actually I starting to change water each 15 days.


Yes you do. I use those exact ferts in all of my tanks. I change the water on Sunday in all of them then dose the GH booster right after as well as a dose of macros so that when I dose micros on Monday before lights on, the plants have access to their full band of nutrients for growth Monday. I have excellent results doing this:


----------



## John Wong (Dec 2, 2015)

houseofcards said:


> If you follow EI type dosing guidelines you don't have to wait for deficiency to show up. Once a deficiency is shown it's reactive and your tank is already developing algae from it. That's another reason why you should dose everything and not rely on first waste for macros. Dose, do water changes, repeat.


I can only access dry macro from lab chemical company. I want to get dry fert for micro but no one sell it in Malaysia, so ei dosing is not an option for me. Normally I will dose more but at the start of dosing I need to adjust a bit to get most plant growth and less algae growth on hardscape. My different tank have different plant. By the way it is never too late to react if there is any form of deficiency. 

This is my one month old tank as you can see it is not really heavily planted and got exposed rocks. Algae typically like my hardscape and avoid my plants . Currently facing Diatom , green dust algae which normally just gone when the tank mature and dosing scheme established. And there is hair algae which I never see before growing on my rocks only. No cleaning crew. 


















I'm not sure why but some people follow ei dosing religiously but facing huge problem. I think even ei dosing may subject to change according to plant condition in every tank. 
Sent from my MX4 using Tapatalk


----------



## John Wong (Dec 2, 2015)

But if u got hold of dry fert set then u can try to follow. Actually I also follow parts if ei dosing, the macro. 

Sent from my MX4 using Tapatalk


----------



## fablau (Feb 7, 2009)

Another question: how do you know you have 30ppm Co2?


----------



## John Wong (Dec 2, 2015)

fablau said:


> Another question: how do you know you have 30ppm Co2?


Drop checker?

Sent from my MX4 using Tapatalk


----------



## cejoos (Sep 7, 2016)

fablau said:


> Another question: how do you know you have 30ppm Co2?


I use JBL Pro check stick... Is not very exact, but helps.


----------



## cejoos (Sep 7, 2016)

John Wong said:


> Drop checker?
> 
> Sent from my MX4 using Tapatalk




John,

How do you leave your co2? Always on? Or with timer?

Thx for your help!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## John Wong (Dec 2, 2015)

U r using solenoid? 
Normally I keep my co2 flow for one to two hours before light so that when light on, co2 already in full concentration. I stop co2 flow when turn of light and raise my Lily outflow to increase surface agitation. 

Sent from my MX4 using Tapatalk


----------



## cejoos (Sep 7, 2016)

John Wong said:


> U r using solenoid?
> Normally I keep my co2 flow for one to two hours before light so that when light on, co2 already in full concentration. I stop co2 flow when turn of light and raise my Lily outflow to increase surface agitation.
> 
> Sent from my MX4 using Tapatalk




Yes I use solenoide. I do it like you. 
I have seen some people letting CO2 24/7. They say that maintain a stable pH. 

I don't know. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## John Wong (Dec 2, 2015)

cejoos said:


> Yes I use solenoide. I do it like you.
> I have seen some people letting CO2 24/7. They say that maintain a stable pH.
> 
> I don't know.
> ...


Do your tank benefit from maintaining stable ph? So far as long as there is no drastic swing in ph I think my fish and shrimp will just doing fine. 

Sent from my MX4 using Tapatalk


----------



## cejoos (Sep 7, 2016)

John Wong said:


> Do your tank benefit from maintaining stable ph? So far as long as there is no drastic swing in ph I think my fish and shrimp will just doing fine.
> 
> Sent from my MX4 using Tapatalk




Cool. 

This week I started the new method of fertilization. 
I'll be back with news. 

Thx!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## cejoos (Sep 7, 2016)

Hello you all!

After 20 days doing EI method I'm still having green spots (lower quantity), and on old plants, I'm having, like a brown layer ok plants.

For example: Java plants always die in the tank...

Low light can bring this kind of problem? What is this brown layer on old plants?

Thx! 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## fablau (Feb 7, 2009)

cejoos said:


> Hello you all!
> 
> After 20 days doing EI method I'm still having green spots (lower quantity), and on old plants, I'm having, like a brown layer ok plants.
> 
> ...




Any pictures?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## cejoos (Sep 7, 2016)

fablau said:


> Any pictures?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk




Sry. No pictures. I thing that I added to much Phosphate. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## cejoos (Sep 7, 2016)

Hello!

I just take some shots from my plants. So you can help me.

Please help me.

Can't have any plants.. They are all dying...

_DSC4386 by Carlos Eduardo Joos, no Flickr

_DSC4385 by Carlos Eduardo Joos, no Flickr

_DSC4383 by Carlos Eduardo Joos, no Flickr

_DSC4382 by Carlos Eduardo Joos, no Flickr

_DSC4376 by Carlos Eduardo Joos, no Flickr

_DSC4373 by Carlos Eduardo Joos, no Flickr


----------



## cejoos (Sep 7, 2016)

Someone?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## John Wong (Dec 2, 2015)

How many ppm of macro were you doing? 

Sent from my MX4 using Tapatalk


----------



## cejoos (Sep 7, 2016)

John Wong said:


> How many ppm of macro were you doing?
> 
> Sent from my MX4 using Tapatalk


25ppm Nitrate
2ppm Phosphate


----------



## John Wong (Dec 2, 2015)

If you dose 25 ppm nitrate per week you may need to cut your dosing amount to 12 ppm. Last time you already said you got lots of nitrate. 

Sent from my MX4 using Tapatalk


----------



## cejoos (Sep 7, 2016)

John Wong said:


> If you dose 25 ppm nitrate per week you may need to cut your dosing amount to 12 ppm. Last time you already said you got lots of nitrate.
> 
> Sent from my MX4 using Tapatalk




Why? My aquarium is planted. I need minimum 20ppm Of Nitrate Thx!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------

