# coralbandits mikrogeophagus ramirezi (GBR) journey



## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

Figured I show and keep track of my luck and lessons in ram breeding.








I have been breeding and attempting to get better at raising Mikrogeophagus ramirezi (GBR) for over a year now.








I have been pretty lucky and am willing to admit it!








Well just thought I would share more then words hope everyone enjoys the pics!


----------



## koiboi (Sep 4, 2011)

Great pictures and nice fish. Best reward of the hobby I think.


----------



## Bushkill (Feb 15, 2012)

Nice job!!!!

What food do you start the little ones with and at what point?


----------



## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

koiboi said:


> Great pictures and nice fish. Best reward of the hobby I think.


Thanks and I agree 100%
Love FW so much more then my reefs!



Bushkill said:


> Nice job!!!!
> 
> What food do you start the little ones with and at what point?


Thanks!
I feed first day free swimming.
Micro worms mostly.
Some batches get vinegar eels for first 2-3 days.
I mix ;golden pearls 5-50 micron,decapsulated brine shrimp eggs,astaxinthin powder and a couple sera micro foods .
Very little of the powder mixed in water with microworms fed by syringe to help with targeting the cloud or the loner.


----------



## Culprit (Nov 6, 2012)

GBR fry are tough to raise being so small.
Looks like you have it down bro ! 
Great job breeding and raising the fry !


----------



## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

Culprit said:


> GBR fry are tough to raise being so small.
> Looks like you have it down bro !
> Great job breeding and raising the fry !


Thanks man!
I have learned a little and gained a lot in my year plus journey with these beauties!
I am constantly still trying to improve in every way,but able to enjoy it all still.
They kind of make me think of miniature sunfish.


----------



## Bushkill (Feb 15, 2012)

The first pic is the most impressive. I don't think I've ever seen a ram with a nucile hump.


----------



## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

My brother had a pair of Jack Demseys/w little ones. Nothing like watching them follow her around.


----------



## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

Raymond S. said:


> My brother had a pair of Jack Demseys/w little ones. Nothing like watching them follow her around.


 This last year has been the most fun and exciting with these guys.
Never get tired of watching the different pairs in action.



Bushkill said:


> The first pic is the most impressive. I don't think I've ever seen a ram with a nucile hump.


 I have had several of my males do this!
I can no "official" info on this with the rams, but being common with other SA(angels,discus) I just kind of roll with it.








This is a young male in the 75 growout(tap water) showing off his hump and guarding his eggs!.


----------



## lksdrinker (Feb 12, 2014)

Good stuff! 

So any advice you can offer up to someone who hopes they can get some pairs to form and start breeding?


----------



## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

The water needs to be soft for the eggs to be fertalised.
Although I acclimate my juvis to 7.6pH 3kH,3gH and they lay eggs none ever are fertalised.
I ro/di that same water to 0tds and mix it back to 50% tap.
My fish breed and fry seem fine in that.
Feeding the fry is next hardest part. Micro worms or vinegar eels.
Still learning a lot myself ,so I'll say as of lately I think the faster you can add real circulation(I use AQ hobs with sponge prefilters) to fry over 2-3 weeks the faster they start to really grow.
First 2 weeks of fry are hardest.I haven't managed over 20-30% survival repeatedly yet to have a real trick.
Just persistence and passion.
I have bred many other fish in the last 30 years ,so I am really enjoying the challenge these guys offer me.
My goal in the end is to give back more then I take(with more then fish), so with starting out with only 6 and already selling/trading 2-3 hundred(easy) ?
I feel like I have done ok.
Splitting lines(genetics) is very important for rams also.
They are called out as genetically weak do to massive inbreeding.
I split/mixed my lines last fall with some from California(Couldn't get much farther from me in the US).As it turns out(my luck!)I got my new guys from Yunite who is pretty well looked upon.
My original stock came from breeder in the Nehterlands who imports through FLA.
The owner of my LFS met him at a convention years ago.


----------



## lksdrinker (Feb 12, 2014)

Coralbandit said:


> The water needs to be soft for the eggs to be fertalised.
> Although I acclimate my juvis to 7.6pH 3kH,3gH and they lay eggs none ever are fertalised.
> I ro/di that same water to 0tds and mix it back to 50% tap.
> My fish breed and fry seem fine in that.
> ...


I appreciate the info and hope to eventually have some success myself some day. If so, I'll be looking towards you for a different genetic line to add into the mix!


----------



## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

So after a year ,here is one I haven't seen yet!









She is guarding new eggs with fry around her!
This pair is in a 30B.
Have to see where this goes?


----------



## lksdrinker (Feb 12, 2014)

Coralbandit said:


> So after a year ,here is one I haven't seen yet!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Cant wait to see how this develops! (...and here I am still waiting for a female to even drop some eggs let alone have a successful batch of fry!)

I think it is very worthwhile to point out that this picture proves that you cannot positively sex a ram by using the dorsal fin extensions. The female depicted here has the long/extended 2nd and 3rd dorsal ray which many many people say is the definitive characteristic of a male. I've always found the anal fin to be the best way to sex these fish. If that anal fin extends past the "joint" where body meets tail its usually a male and most often the anal fin on a female will end just at that "joint" and does not extend to the tail. (My two cents when no one asked!)


----------



## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

lksdrinker said:


> Cant wait to see how this develops! (...and here I am still waiting for a female to even drop some eggs let alone have a successful batch of fry!)
> 
> I think it is very worthwhile to point out that this picture proves that you cannot positively sex a ram by using the dorsal fin extensions. The female depicted here has the long/extended 2nd and 3rd dorsal ray which many many people say is the definitive characteristic of a male. I've always found the anal fin to be the best way to sex these fish. If that anal fin extends past the "joint" where body meets tail its usually a male and most often the anal fin on a female will end just at that "joint" and does not extend to the tail. (My two cents when no one asked!)


 I've been the one who has sexed others rams incorrectly according to others!
No gripe(pimping aint easy!),
but more to the point,it is very difficult to sex many cichlids(dwarfs) without seeing the ovipositor.
Note hers is blunt, not pointed.
I expect the present fry to be eaten,and can only explain this very quick successive breeding to me screwing up their water and trying to correct it?


----------



## lksdrinker (Feb 12, 2014)

Coralbandit said:


> I've been the one who has sexed others rams incorrectly according to others!
> No gripe(pimping aint easy!),
> but more to the point,it is very difficult to sex many cichlids(dwarfs) without seeing the ovipositor.
> Note hers is blunt, not pointed.
> I expect the present fry to be eaten,and can only explain this very quick successive breeding to me screwing up their water and trying to correct it?


Well you've definitely got more experience than I do with the rams; so I'll leave yours to be the final word on it!


----------



## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

Coralbandit said:


> I expect the present fry to be eaten,and can only explain this very quick successive breeding to me screwing up their water and trying to correct it?


Well the fry have NOT been eaten!
This tank still had screwed up water as of this am so the eggs for the most part are not fertilized.There are not a lot of fry so I am just going to leave them for a while.
Over the last month or so I have been "trying" to simplify my water for the GBR and do as so many claim "local breeders" do and reproduce the fish in local water ***********!
:iamwithst
I can raise them in local tap 100%after 5-7 weeks.All reports say the super soft is best for early fry also?
So after 1 month or so(I'm slow not stupid{but sitting right with him!}) I realize my 50/50 mix ,although fine for fry 6weeks old , is not allowing 5% of my eggs to be fertilized!
So back to "old" re mineralising , along with large waterchanges(large then usaull) to get back on track.
The rams( 6 separated pairs) can now get back to business without me messing it up.I often separate fry but have been giving a couple of more mature pairs more time hang out and see.
1 set of eggs and new fry this am in 2 tanks.
Hopefully the eggs will stay good for first 24hrs.
The set with fry will stay with parents for a week at least.They are well hidden and protected in a corner behind very thick java moss in a 29g.


----------



## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

Eggs from yesterday are no good!
Not a complete loss IMO as this is a pair I have "forced" and is their first spawn with each other.
New eggs in another tank with 2 of my best this am!
Hoping I got their water good enough?


----------



## lksdrinker (Feb 12, 2014)

Interesting to hear the trouble you go through for the breeding. The local breeder I picked up a few GBR from actually told me he doesnt do much at all for his rams to breed. He actually puts off water changes as he found the fluctuations were what caused him trouble. He gets his to breed in a bare bottom tank that has lots of algae growing in it and looks pretty neglected. He says the nitrates are in check and he just lets the fish do their thing!

...I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it myself!


----------



## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

It's all a labor of love!
Getting the breeding tanks back "online" currently.
It takes as long to walk out of the woods as to walk into them?
Have wigglers in one tank now with proven parents.
So heres my question:
What do people want their GBR to look like?
I have a good amount of juvi/adults from last November and there is quite a difference in coloring of the males.
Some have more/ unusaull black markings while other "almost" appear gold if not washed.
I have never owned any gold rams.
Here's a male with 2 black marks between his eyes (I have some with just 1 large spot there);








Here's a male (from a different angle) with very few markings even on sides.








What looks better?


----------



## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

So I spotted a pair in my 75 growout (straight tap) that both had markings between their eyes.
I caught them and switched them back to "breeding " water and they laid eggs 2 days later!In the softer water their markings are gone!
Free swimmers now for 2 days I think the parents should be removed but they are working together so well that I am hesitant?
I managed to pull another pair from my 40b and a piece of wood with their eggs.
The eggs must not have been fertalised and turned white in 24 hours.Sooooo,
I pulled a terra cotta pot from the 40b with another pairs eggs(they never make it in the 40b),and gave it to them and today they have moved the wigglers 2 x already!


----------



## lksdrinker (Feb 12, 2014)

Coralbandit said:


> So I spotted a pair in my 75 growout (straight tap) that both had markings between their eyes.
> I caught them and switched them back to "breeding " water and they laid eggs 2 days later!In the softer water their markings are gone!
> Free swimmers now for 2 days I think the parents should be removed but they are working together so well that I am hesitant?
> I managed to pull another pair from my 40b and a piece of wood with their eggs.
> ...


I'm not too surprised to hear the markings changed with the water parameters. I currently have 6 rams that were all born at the same time. 3 are in a bare bottom tank with some discus and they have very bland colors/markings. The other three are in a different tank with some fake plants/deco and a darker substrate and their colors really pop! Anyone not involved in this hobby probably couldnt even identify them all as the same fish let alone being from the same batch of fry! 


I would not have expected that pair to tend to another fish's fry! Seems pretty crazy to me.

How do you handle pulling fish from one tank and placing into another? Do you act is if you were just bringing the fish home for the first time and slowly acclimate them to the "new" tank? I'm always concerned about the subtle differences between tanks even when the source water is the same.

What about your breeding water? Is it straight r/o water or do you buffer it somehow?


----------



## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

lksdrinker said:


> I'm not too surprised to hear the markings changed with the water parameters. I currently have 6 rams that were all born at the same time. 3 are in a bare bottom tank with some discus and they have very bland colors/markings. The other three are in a different tank with some fake plants/deco and a darker substrate and their colors really pop! Anyone not involved in this hobby probably couldnt even identify them all as the same fish let alone being from the same batch of fry!
> 
> 
> I would not have expected that pair to tend to another fish's fry! Seems pretty crazy to me.
> ...


Coloring can be crazy!

I feel the trick is as good if not better then the force!I tried this a year ago when I didn't know I had 2 females that I thought weren't tending eggs(turned out they were not fertalised as those replacement parents tried and tried!) .I think it is a each pair is different thing for sure as I have moved pairs with their eggs and they never went back near them again(their own eggs).
These two are in the 10 with sponge and AC20 with sponge prefilter.
I think I'm going to leave the AC on the whole time with these guys.
One link I read said"if they are not actively swimming then water is questionable".I lean this towards movement as quality is always tracked for my issues.
It is funny you ask how I pull fish as I just moved the parents I spoke of before.
I catch them with my bare hand!
I really don't think they are the best parents,but they are tight!
I don't worry about catching any fry in my hand .
For real.They basically attack you .They sure don't run away!

I am straight RO right now, working on proper re mineralizing.
My research say Orinco @30TDS,while most breeders (of discus since few GBR breeders report),say 100-150.
I change water between 80-120 in different tanks.Really trying to figure this part out?Think it is KEY!
This really is a journey/journal.
I might get better ,I might not.
Questions make me think.
These fry are VERY FRUSTRATING.But this is still more fun then work!
Thanks for asking!


----------



## lksdrinker (Feb 12, 2014)

Coralbandit said:


> It is funny you ask how I pull fish as I just moved the parents I spoke of before.
> I catch them with my bare hand!
> I really don't think they are the best parents,but they are tight!
> I don't worry about catching any fry in my hand .
> For real.They basically attack you .They sure don't run away!


So you just grab them out of one tank and immediately drop them into another? The possible change in temperature concerns me and I end up bagging fish just to move them 2 feet to a different tank in my own house! Then I acclimate them like I would anew fish from the store. I float them in the bag for a while and release after an hour or so. I just dont trust my thermostats to be accurate enough. Even though two tanks show about 82 degrees I'm way to concerned that one could be closer to 80 and the other 84. Put two different thermostats in the same tank and get 2 completely different temperatures!




Coralbandit said:


> I am straight RO right now,


Just RO not the DI?




Coralbandit said:


> working on proper re mineralizing.


Whats your plan there?




Coralbandit said:


> My research say Orinco @30TDS,while most breeders (of discus since few GBR breeders report),say 100-150.
> I change water between 80-120 in different tanks.Really trying to figure this part out?Think it is KEY!


Not sure I totally follow you there. Are you saying you base your water changes on a TDS reading and only change when you get to 80-120 TDS? I 'd say its a safe bet to follow the advice of discus breeders. While GBR are obviously different they seem to enjoy very similar water parameters and most fishkeepers who have luck with one also have luck with the other.



Coralbandit said:


> This really is a journey/journal.
> I might get better ,I might not.
> Questions make me think.
> These fry are VERY FRUSTRATING.But this is still more fun then work!
> Thanks for asking!


I'm enjoying following along on your journey and hope to start my own soon enough! Thanks for letting me bounce these questions off of you and hopefully we can both learn a bit from it!


----------



## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

I'm pretty funny about thermometers.
I buy 3-5 at a time and compare all to each other before I buy them.They have to read the same or I don't buy them.
I pull all off the shelf(one is always different).



No di now.I add very little equilibrium.



Testing,reading and possibly good advice.


I use both TDS and nitrates.I change water everday almost on most tanks.I try to wait as long as I can for new fry.


Thank you!
I wanted to add that small changes in temp or water quality(pH,kH,Gh) are all possible triggers for spawning with many fish.
I don't think 1 or 2 degrees is a big deal.
I drip acclimate everything I buy.


----------



## The Dude (Feb 8, 2011)

So what are the chances of getting successful breeding in a community tank and then being able to rear them in a seperate tank away from parents? I believe the PH settles at around 7.2 in that tank.
I've got an 11 gallon that I'm going to use as a fry rearing tank... I could manipulate the conditions of that tank without issue


----------



## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

The Dude said:


> So what are the chances of getting successful breeding in a community tank and then being able to rear them in a seperate tank away from parents? I believe the PH settles at around 7.2 in that tank.
> I've got an 11 gallon that I'm going to use as a fry rearing tank... I could manipulate the conditions of that tank without issue


 They should breed in community tank.
How well the fry fair in the community is hard to say.
I still struggle to get past 2 weeks with a high % of my fry.


----------



## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

So yesterday the fry in the "trick" became free swimming and both parents are tending to well as of minutes ago.
To push my luck ,and do to timming I found another flower pot in the 40b with wigglers and transferred it to the 10g with these guys!








You can see some of fry freeswimming below her and the blob in the pot is all the new ones!
Hopefully this will work as the fry would have been eaten in the 40b(many pairs of GBR).
I see another flower in there also ready to go ,but I think I will try these guys without any host/parent.
The 10g with the fry and eggs now is the first time I have run an HOB during the fry.
It is a AC20 on low with a seasoned sponge prefilter on it.Kind of hoping the filter(more flow) may help in the long run??


----------



## doughnut (Jul 22, 2010)

Ya know coral, it isn't your fault that I love GBR's and will get some here in a while but it is probably your fault for me wanting apistos(I wouldn't necessarily call that a problem either...).. Haha in all seriousness, im getting a huge kick out of this thread. Keep it up man!


----------



## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

doughnut said:


> Ya know coral, it isn't your fault that I love GBR's and will get some here in a while but it is probably your fault for me wanting apistos(I wouldn't necessarily call that a problem either...).. Haha in all seriousness, im getting a huge kick out of this thread. Keep it up man!


Thanks bro!
I do all this cause I can(have had MTS for decades!)
So I can't resist!









I added a pair that has issues getting the eggs fertalised,but are always great together to the second pot I pulled yesterday.
I placed pot in 40B with airline comming in back of pot just for a little flow.
The new female did not like the air bubble(less then 1BPS) at all!
Once I stopped the air she seemed to check out the wigglers and show possible interest in them?
Add 2:45 hours later the female has moved the wigglers to a piece of driftwood and is tending them!


----------



## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

All fry from trick 1&2 were eaten yesterday!
Many from trick 3,and even a actual pair ate their clutch also.
It was a fry eating day! I was at work 
There is still 1 clutch complete ,some survivors from trick 3 and a new set of wigglers with their parents still.
I think I need to get to complete artificial hatching?
It is frustrating to lose 5-600 fry in one day!AGAIN!


----------



## Bushkill (Feb 15, 2012)

Coralbandit said:


> All fry from trick 1&2 were eaten yesterday!
> Many from trick 3,and even a actual pair ate their clutch also.
> It was a fry eating day! I was at work
> There is still 1 clutch complete ,some survivors from trick 3 and a new set of wigglers with their parents still.
> ...


So these guys are eating wigglers AND free-swimming fry?

Sheesh, At least Angels just scarf down the eggs before they hatch!


----------



## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

Bushkill said:


> So these guys are eating wigglers AND free-swimming fry?
> 
> Sheesh, At least Angels just scarf down the eggs before they hatch!


My angels and discus ate their eggs 99% of the time!
The rams only eat the fry free swimming.
These pairs all lasted like 3 days with the fry this time.
They tend to do really well with the wigglers and first 1-7 days depending on pair.
I try to track how long I trust a pair,but now am moving some back to 40b"dormotory",so a little harder to know who is who.
My pearl gourami fry turn 1 month old soon and have been basically effortless.
I think I ask for it sometimes with these rams!


----------



## The Dude (Feb 8, 2011)

What do you think caused them to eat the fry? Also what temps are you keeping your tanks at?


----------



## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

The Dude said:


> What do you think caused them to eat the fry? Also what temps are you keeping your tanks at?


I think the parents eat the fry from a combo of "immaturity" and lack of control.Mostlyjust lack of experience.
The parents are all young.
They seem to get "anxious" when the fry really start to wander the whole tank.
This has happened many times in tanks from 5-40g.
Tanks are 84-86.


----------



## Bushkill (Feb 15, 2012)

With Angels I've found two things that help to get the parenting juices flowing:

The breeding pairs are in 20G's placed side by side. So they all have a bird's eye view of what's going on nextdoor. Once they put eggs on the slate, they no longer just tolerate their neighbors, they wanna rip into them. Once they get to wigglers and they can see another pair nextdoor, they become ferociously protective. It's getting them to let the eggs hatch that can be a test.

Keep a low wattage light on 24/7. Some use a simple nightlite. It serves two purposes: Makes the parents a little less anxious when they can see the eggs and wigglers all the time. It also keeps the lazy little ones off the tank bottom where the nastiest bacteria tend to reside. The light also draws BBS and infusoria when the rest of the ights in the room are off, and makes for really efficient feeding.

Have you tried the low-wattge light on 24/7? May work.


----------



## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

I'm 24 /7 with lights for year now!
I've got a lot farther with the GBR then my angels or discus,but they end up being "hit or miss"?
I need to go 3/4 artificial.
Most parents are good right through the wiggler to free swimming.
They may move the wigglers every day but this seems more common then not.
The time each pair last with free swimmers is the wild card.
Besides artificial I wonder about adding very thin layer of sand to see if this sways the parents and for the bacterial issues you mentioned also.
I'm really interested to see if fewestKittens does well with substrate?


----------



## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

roud:
So here is one of todays scores;








This pair has bred 4 times but raised 0.
I think I am going to pull the parents this a.m.
Seems like 0 survivors from any of the trick fry so not a complete success.
Have maybe 20 @ 1-2 weeks looking good in the 30B with a HOB(sponge prefiltered).
They swim actively on the opposite end of tank but are still in the flow.
I think I like it?
Larger mass of wigglers in the 40B dormitory I will try to gently syphon out.
Started remineralising my water differently with some help from another member(THANK YOU!).


----------



## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

So I pulled those parents early yesterday and moved them right next door so they can see each other.
The parents really do stay focused right on the fry still.
Just didn't feel comfortable pulling the wigglers yesterday as they never moved.
Well this am they must have woken up with main lights as they were in full force(200) swimming in the dormitory with parents protecting!
I syphoned them out and installed them in tank set up yesterday using all the same water.
About 30 minutes later a second set of free swimmers in the same spot of the dorm!
1/2 went with first fry and second half went into the 30b with the HOB and some 2 week old fry.
Will just have to see how far I can get these guys and which size tank works best.
Have 1 more set of wigglers in a 5 with male only as female was attacking him pretty hard.Something made her VERY mad at him?
And 1 fresh set of eggs from a pair in a 29 that have bred 5-6 times and eaten free swimmers evertime in under 4 days(not this time!).
Have a good Sunday everyone.


----------



## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

OUT OF CONTROL!
Me and them!
Fry moved to 30B with older(2 weeks) are loving life from what I see!
The other fry in small tank became very active when I slowed air to feed them and seemed to be doing great.
I couldn't resist moving fry in small tank to the 30b(with HOB) .
So I did ,yesterday.
All good today!
Sooooo,I moved fry from a 5g that are a week freeswimming(many),
AND these guys I saved from their angry mother yesterday(in another 5g)!








I didn't want to put the male and female back together yet and as mentioned feel the best way to boost my survival is if I takeover at some point.
I'm thinking free swimming is that point?
They raise the eggs and wigglers like clockwork.
I mean that!
With the dorm(maybe 10 pair now) and only 5 seperated pairs
I scored 4 sets of free swimmers already this week and 2 more comming.
These are the little 5 g set ups.
6 tanks for 3 pairs.








Guess we'll just see how this try turns out?


----------



## FewestKitten896 (Dec 13, 2013)

Do you leave a light on or some kind of low light source when the lights turn off on the main tanks? Seems like my egg eating couple chows down when the lights go out.


----------



## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

Oh yea!
fry breeding tanks are 24/7 with more then just night lite.
Angel/discus breeders do the same.
Can't personally imagine a "less natural thing" I could do ,but it is almost necessary if not.
When the lights go out the fish stress and eat the eggs so others can't.
It is really hard to think like a fish sometimes.
How are your GBR doing?


----------



## FewestKitten896 (Dec 13, 2013)

Bolivians just laid eggs in my 40B but there are lots of other fish in there so very small chance they will get to far as far as fry survival. My GBR should lay eggs here pretty soon. She is getting very plump and very brightly colored so I will definitely leave the lights on this go around, well at least one of the lights.


----------



## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

FewestKitten896 said:


> My GBR should lay eggs here pretty soon. She is getting very plump and very brightly colored so I will definitely leave the lights on this go around, well at least one of the lights.


 leave the lights on 24/7 from now on.
I even got up last night at 2 am to see which lights were on.
I move stuff around so needed to see who is where.
I keep 24/7 for the fry also up to 1 month.


----------



## CPD (Feb 7, 2012)

Very cool project you have going here. Subbed.


----------



## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

CPD said:


> Very cool project you have going here. Subbed.


Cool, Thanks!

The pair in 29 have moved wigglers(got a couple days left).
The fry in the 30B look like they are doing great!
I think I overfeed so in smaller tanks water quality can go off quick and bad?
In the 30 it is better diluted ,besides the water movement(really think this counts).I change aprox 5g 1 or 2x a day.Testing for nitrAtes daily before WC,never over 20ppm usually much lower.
The 40 b Dorm has 2 more sets of eggs in clear view so I may just start moving whoever(fry/free swimmers) into another 40b I have prepped when they arrive.
Fry are being fed ;vinegar eels,microworms,BBS and my powder mix 2x a day(not all each time, but a combo of).

It will soon be time for the first "Annual Coralbandit GBR Sale".
I really have many that are aprox 6-7 months old and weather is getting better for shipping!


----------



## lksdrinker (Feb 12, 2014)

Coralbandit said:


> It will soon be time for the first "Annual Coralbandit GBR Sale".
> I really have many that are aprox 6-7 months old and weather is getting better for shipping!


I could be interested in that! I'm in need of some females as I seem to have too many males and not enough ladies around for them!


----------



## RugburnTanks (Mar 31, 2015)

These fish are awesome, but now I have to decide between Bolivian Rams or GBR. Which are best?


----------



## The Dude (Feb 8, 2011)

RugburnTanks said:


> These fish are awesome, but now I have to decide between Bolivian Rams or GBR. Which are best?


I've had both and the German Blue Rams are a little more finicky, but they are prettier and more enjoyable for me. My last several Bolivians have been bullys. The GBR's are more laid back, but very friendly.


----------



## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

RugburnTanks said:


> These fish are awesome, but now I have to decide between Bolivian Rams or GBR. Which are best?


I'll leave it to you to guess which I think is best!

So looking around 25% survival of fry in 30b so far.
Seemed like large loss,but nothing new!
No little boddies all over really so maybe filter is moving water good.
















This is the 40 dormitory.
Home of aprox. 20 8-9 month olds.
You can see the wigglers on the wood and another pair in larger pot to right in the upper pic.
Closer pic of wigglers below.
Note that the pair in pot on right have wigglers and a pair has laid eggs in the left front corner(on silicone,again not new).
3 pairs with surviving eggs and wigglers in a 3 foot tank amongst a larger community.
Once free swimming all hope for fry is gone.

Finally trading in 50 today to LFS.
I've got some of the largest I have ever traded now since devoting my 75g to grow out in the winter.
They're going to be VERY HAPPY!:hihi:

Have a great weekend everyone!


----------



## DavidZ (Nov 17, 2009)

You are doing a great job!


----------



## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

DavidZ said:


> You are doing a great job!


Thanks!I'm having fun too!

The wigglers in the dorm were all swimming this am so I syphoned them out and placed in 30b.
Very surprised to see them all swimming(3 sets!).
I don't think syphoning them is the best thing but they seem to hold up for several days at least so I can't make solid conclusion.
Hard to say but looks like there is a decent number of fry still in the 30b I think they just start to swim differently and are harder to see then when in the swarm.
Got rid of [email protected] 6 months old and 20 @4 months yesterday!
Nice to get a little credit back in the bandits fish fund $$$!


----------



## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

No pics but free swimming fry from 3 pairs today.
2 are in the dorm and 1 pair is in their own 5g.
As mentioned before I don't think syphoning is great but the fry hold a couple days at least so I started to syphon them out to a 5g .
Possibly 50 or more(6 week old? and less) looking good in the 30b,but they are too large to add any more.
I saw a larger chase(maybe hunt?) a much smaller.
The 40b dorm seems to be working well,and I think I will add a larger or second HOB(aquaclear70/50) to it soon.
It is pretty fast and furious when the fry are free swimming,but before and after it is not as wild.
IMO this may be the breeding "factory" that works in the end?
Pairs kept in any size tank to themselves just don't stay the same(activity level) in long run from what I have seen.
On a side note my pearl gourami fry are aprox 5-6 weeks old and I can see the horizontal stripe on some(over 1/2 inch)!
I wonder what a tank full of pearls and GBRs would look like/act like?


----------



## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

Quick update;
Zero survivors from last weeks transfer.
Moved 2 more sets of free swimmers from the dorm this am into a 30 long.
Hopefully these guys do better in a bigger tank?
Trying to find the best method , I think I will put 2 pair into a 40b and see if they do better.
I never pulled the fry from the pair in the 29 the other week and they ate them (again),but I took their fry this am also!
They and another pair who is in the 40b are going to share space.
The pair in 40b has laid eggs 3 times and never once even paid any(hardly any) attention to them at all!
Maybe the other pair will inspire better parenting?

Have a great weekend everyone!


----------



## The Dude (Feb 8, 2011)

Coralbandit said:


> Quick update;
> Zero survivors from last weeks transfer.
> Moved 2 more sets of free swimmers from the dorm this am into a 30 long.
> Hopefully these guys do better in a bigger tank?
> ...


Do you think they died from the syphoning?

Bump: Also it appears that my second GBR is a female. I am considering finding her a mate, but it's difficult with the sizes that they are in pet shops. Please let us know when you will be selling some. I currently just have the EBR and GBR pair. The Bolivian is by himself as is the youngest GBR and this is a heavily planted 75 gallon


----------



## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

I don't think it is from syphoning.
I wish I could put my finger on it but something eludes me?
I would/do recommend ordering rams from Yunite as I have had good experience with them and really can't beat their price with shipping and all.
The only reason anyone should get any rams from me is I can sex mine 100%.
Yunite sells pairs but his best deals are on "mixed".
It's the shipping that kills it(even USPS priority{which is how Yunite ships}) unless you want like 10.
Then it would be worth it,but for 1 or a pair it adds up to as much as my LFS sells them for,and I don't make any more $ and risk the fishes life(in shipping) and possibly upsetting a paying person.
Kind of nervous to ship and have it go wrong!
I really would like to share my fish(still sitting on over 100 that are breeding age).


----------



## The Dude (Feb 8, 2011)

I understand and respect your point. Personally I am fine paying a premium for a premium fish that I know is from good stock. The local stores rarely get sexable Rams and when they do they appear to be less than high quality. I have my eye on a very specific Angel for my tank and I expect to spend $80 or more for 2 juvenile Angels. I feel the same way about Rams. I may go by a few local places and hope that they have some larger specimens, but people know the stores with high quality stock and they do not last long. I really wish some of the GBR breeders and Apisto breeders and Discus and Angel breeders would get together. When some one wants premium examples of any of these they are forced to pay shipping on each as each breed is from a different breeder.

Also... my female Ram is getting really dark coloration lately. Yesterday her Belly and pectoral fins were the deepest red I've ever seen... also her whole body is darkening. There doesn't appear to be any bullying, my water is 80*, she is eating well and the tank has at least a 50% water change each week in additional with tremendous filtration. Any idea whats going on?


----------



## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

I wouldn't worry about color change.
If she is loading up with eggs her hormones are all in a spin as it is?
Eating and activity would be the best way to judge the fish IMO.


----------



## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

This is what it is all about!
In an effort to help others I have sent a PM to two members offering "trial shipping" to see if I can deliver the goods or not!








My male in the 29g.








and my pearl gourami fry (aprox 6 weeks old).
Sorry if I should have linked post mods!(Feel free)


----------



## tike (Nov 26, 2005)

Nice job! It isn't easy (as you found out!) to raise these guys. You're really getting it down. Loving the thread.


----------



## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

Uuuupddddaaaatttteeee???


----------



## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

BettaBettas said:


> Uuuupddddaaaatttteeee???


The update is I ma loaded with GBR,EBR,angels and a couple types of Apisto.
I have increased the fish room volume and have number of tanks.
Some grown angels


Some of the platinums and golds


Mr.iniridae

EBR


GBR

RREA swordtails

One of the new racks....

How is that for update???
I got fish,no no, I got some of the best most sought after fish!
Where have all of you been?


----------



## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

Time to do new vid ,but for now this was the fish room;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0q-2bcjgLPU

The latest addition besides fry from every swordtail variety I have [9+] is EBA eggs and fry !
Yah baby Electric Blue Acara stolen from my 180g and hatched like all others in the fish room !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Am9jqlzF190

FISH ON FISH HEADS !


----------



## coralbandit still (Dec 22, 2019)

Wonder where this guy is at ?


----------



## Triport (Sep 3, 2017)

If you follow the link to his Youtube sight he is still posting videos there. Just posted a new one 3 hours ago.


----------



## coralbandit still (Dec 22, 2019)

Triport said:


> If you follow the link to his Youtube sight he is still posting videos there. Just posted a new one 3 hours ago.


 I am glad to see I was not completely forgotten !:x
I do 'a little better' with rams and shipping now then back in 2016 ??
Here is a little something from today ;


----------

