# DIY SMD LED Pendant Light



## Salmon McCloud

Are heatsinks even necessary? 

Sent from my galaxy note 2


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## Hoppy

All LEDs generate heat because none of them are 100% efficient. A single LED may not need a heat sink to dissipate the heat, but when you put 10 tapes of LEDs side by side, where the LEDs are spaced 2/3 of an inch apart, it would be foolish to assume that no heatsink is needed. These LEDs together will use about 80 watts, so there will be considerable heat involved.

I found the red and green LED tapes for $10 each, but I also got a dimmer for them at $4, so I saved a little.


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## drhemlock2

*go for it!*

i thought you were doing pendants??? did you tell in your pendant log what happened...if not pm me and let me know cause I am building some pendants for my system. I will follow this build for sure..
doc


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## Greystoke

@ 80Watt total, there may be merit in using a perforated board (with ½" holes ?), or even a metal grate as the top of the box.


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## Deano85

Why not just use crees from the start? They are fairly cheap on fastTech. http://www.fasttech.com/category/1609/diy-kits-parts-led-emitters/MTMyPUNyZWU/


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## thelub

I thought your pendants were doing good? I just went back and didn't see why you think they failed. Did I not go back far enough?

Do you think any of these options would be good enough for a 28" deep aquarium? I'm still trying to decide how I want to light it and still be cost effective. Or does 28" depth and affordable not coincide with eachother?


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## Hoppy

This will be a pendant, hanging about 36 inches from the substrate, 12 inches above the top of the tank. The 4" diameter, 30 watt pendant I tried did not produce enough PAR at the 36 inch distance, so I dropped the project and sold the parts on the For Sale forum.

The SMD tape will provide about 300 LEDs, for about $15! These are 30 lumen LEDs, not the tiny output ones the original LED tape used. I chose them because I want to try them, they are cheap - very cheap - and my PAR calculation program says they will work. Also, they don't need a LED driver - each LED has a current limiting resistor build in.

Also, I have noted that Finnex LED lights use SMD LEDs, so it is certainly possible to generate high PAR with them.


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## thelub

Nice. I'll be tagging along on this one for sure.

Have you ever played around with the GU10 LED bulbs at all?


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## Hoppy

thelub said:


> Nice. I'll be tagging along on this one for sure.
> 
> Have you ever played around with the GU10 LED bulbs at all?


No, I looked at those bulbs and decided they wouldn't do what I want, but I don't recall the details. Two reasons the tape mounted LEDs are so cheap are: they are produced as printed circuits, and they are apparently widely used to decorate automobiles. They are also used for store decorations, and other accent room lighting. That makes for a big market, compared to star mounted LEDs, so there are many vendors competing for the business. I'm getting mine from US distributers, one located within a hundred miles from here.


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## Pakman

I've used a similar LED tape that was probably on the cheap side of manufaturing. It was pretty bright and easy work with, but I've since noticed that I have a few LED's burning out... probably quality control on the off-brand strips and maybe water effecting the circuit (even though it was sold as waterproof and comes encased in some sort of rubber). Since we are on the topic, was recently seeing some interesting circular panels on amazon that could be interesting... anyone look at things like: Amazon.com: Mudder 12w 2835 SMD LED White Light Round Recessed Ceiling Panel Down Light Lamp: Home Improvement


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## Greystoke

Hoppy said:


> . . . Two reasons the tape mounted LEDs are so cheap are: they are produced as printed circuits, and they are apparently widely used to decorate automobiles. They are also used for store decorations, and other accent room lighting. That makes for a big market, compared to star mounted LEDs, so there are many vendors competing for the business. I'm getting mine from US distributers, one located within a hundred miles from here.


 . . . and, it's an attempt to increase the commercial life of the cheap, low-power LEDs which are only half as efficient as the Cree-types. Besides, some makes suffer badly from sulfuration.

I've given-up on them :thumbsdow. In my opinion, the best DIY LED units are made from LEDs rated greater than 1Watt/LED.


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## Hoppy

Here is the mechanical part of the light - a heatsink made from 4 strips of 1/8" x 1 1/2" aluminum.



















This is assembled by drilling and tapping holes in the pieces and using #6-32 screws to hold it together, with 4 #8-32 eyebolts for hanging it.


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## Hoppy

Greystoke said:


> . . . and, it's an attempt to increase the commercial life of the cheap, low-power LEDs which are only half as efficient as the Cree-types. Besides, some makes suffer badly from sulfuration.
> 
> I've given-up on them :thumbsdow. In my opinion, the best DIY LED units are made from LEDs rated greater than 1Watt/LED.


They are cheap enough to experiment with, but I may end up giving up on them too. If the light works for 3 years I will be delighted, since I will want to try something else by then anyway. And, it isn't necessary to make the best DIY LED light, just one that meets our needs.


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## Greystoke

Hoppy said:


> . . . And, it isn't necessary to make the best DIY LED light, just one that meets our needs.


True :icon_excl
_(although in my opinion: "best" really means "fit for purpose")_


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## GitMoe

I'll ride along for this one. If it works I'd be interested in building a smaller version for one of my tanks...


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## yashmack

Im subscribed to this, cant wait to see what your results are


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## Hoppy

Here is what SMD 5630 LED strip material looks like. I cut off a piece at one of the marked cut locations, and now need to solder on red and black wires to the cut end, to connect to the next strip.










This looks like it would be easiest if I stick the strips in place first, but I know that also makes it harder to heat up the solder pad quickly, due to the heat absorbed by the heatsink. First, I need to go buy the wire.

Edit: First problem: the double sided tape on the LED strips doesn't stick well to aluminum. I wiped the surface down with alcohol, but that doesn't seem to be adequate. I'm not sure what to do next.


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## Pakman

The double stick tape on those things are really bad. I was thing hot glue gun or aquarium sealer. 


Taptalk via mobile phone, watch out for spelling errors. ;-)


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## Hoppy

I wonder if spray painting the aluminum with primer would help. Right now the strip just lifts off except for 3 or4 places. Weird!!


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## thelub

Have you tried roughing up the surface with sandpaper or steel wool? Maybe its just the coating that is resisting adhesive.


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## GitMoe

Get a roll of 3M body molding double sided tape from Pep Boys. That stuff will stick anything to anything in any conditions. I've successfully used it to stick things together underwater. I don't know how well it will transfer the heat. I do know the warmer it gets, the stickier it gets...


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## Hoppy

GitMoe said:


> Get a roll of 3M body molding double sided tape from Pep Boys. That stuff will stick anything to anything in any conditions. I've successfully used it to stick things together underwater. I don't know how well it will transfer the heat. I do know the warmer it gets, the stickier it gets...


That looks like a good possibility, but I can't easily remove the existing double sided tape from the LED strip, so I would have to stick the sticky LED tape to the body molding tape. Does that seem workable?

I think the first thing I will do is take a small piece of aluminum and spray primer on it, then see if the LED strip sticks well to it. When that doesn't work (I mean, if it doesn't work) I will get that body tape and see how the two stickums work together.


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## yashmack

you might try putting something on top of it to put pressure on it
The aluminum tends to be cold so it causes the sticky stuff to harden slightly and become less sticky

setting something on top and warming up the metal should help it stick
be sure and give it time to let it cure


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## wastewater

I've noticed that the adhesive backing seems to hold better on the non-waterproof strips compared to the waterproof strips. Have especially experienced this problem after removing a strip from its initial mounted position (on aluminum, etc.) and then remounting it to another position. Believe it or not, I use the permanent Scotch (3M) double sided tape (easily found on the office supply aisle of most stores) as a cheap fix. This tape has been durable and held up well (sticking very good even with the heat, and doesn't seem to effect heat transfer). Only drawback is when you remove the strip again... the adhesive that remains on the mounting surface is a bear to remove (goo gone does the deed, though).


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## Hoppy

wastewater said:


> I've noticed that the adhesive backing seems to hold better on the non-waterproof strips compared to the waterproof strips. Have especially experienced this problem after removing a strip from its initial mounted position (on aluminum, etc.) and then remounting it to another position. Believe it or not, I use the permanent Scotch (3M) double sided tape (easily found on the office supply aisle of most stores) as a cheap fix. This tape has been durable and held up well (sticking very good even with the heat, and doesn't seem to effect heat transfer). Only drawback is when you remove the strip again... the adhesive that remains on the mounting surface is a bear to remove (goo gone does the deed, though).


Do you just leave the existing tape on the LED strip, and add the new double sided tape? I'm using the non-waterproof strip (the light will be a foot above the tank, so water won't be a problem.)



yashmack said:


> you might try putting something on top of it to put pressure on it
> The aluminum tends to be cold so it causes the sticky stuff to harden slightly and become less sticky
> 
> setting something on top and warming up the metal should help it stick
> be sure and give it time to let it cure


I can't set something on top of it - the LEDs stick up and would bear all of the pressure. It sticks for several minutes, then pops back up, and resticking it down doesn't prevent it from doing the same thing again.

The aluminum was indoors, in a 70F room for several hours, so it wasn't cold. It does conduct heat away from the tape, so if the tape was warm it quickly cools off.

I just sprayed a primer on a scrap of the same aluminum bar, so I will soon try it with a 3 LED strip. The primer dries in a couple of hours.http://www.summitracing.com/parts/rll-249322?seid=srese1&gclid=CMXHi77EurwCFZWSfgod8zAAzw


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## wastewater

Hoppy said:


> Do you just leave the existing tape on the LED strip, and add the new double sided tape? I'm using the non-waterproof strip (the light will be a foot above the tank, so water won't be a problem.)
> 
> 
> Yep - the new tape will really grip onto the existing LED strip tape. I usually put a strip of the double-sided tape directly onto the aluminum (or other mounting surface) and then apply the LED strip (with existing adhesive tape) to that. I could be wrong (it might not make any difference at all), but I always thought it would be better to apply the LED strip to a non-painted aluminum surface.


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## DarkCobra

Hoppy said:


> Do you just leave the existing tape on the LED strip, and add the new double sided tape? I'm using the non-waterproof strip (the light will be a foot above the tank, so water won't be a problem.)


Yep, that's it. Two sticky surfaces put together grip quite tightly. Like how contact cement works.



Hoppy said:


> I can't set something on top of it - the LEDs stick up and would bear all of the pressure. It sticks for several minutes, then pops back up, and resticking it down doesn't prevent it from doing the same thing again.


It could be done. I have some neoprene foam sheet I use for padding under tanks when they're to be placed on questionably flat surfaces. It would allow applying plenty of weight without damaging the LEDs. But I've tried this technique with other things, and the result is that the adhesive merely sticks a while longer before coming loose again.


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## Hoppy

It sticks very well to the primed aluminum surface. I'm not sure if a full 2 foot long strip will stick over the entire length, but I can't easily pull this little strip off. I sanded the aluminum with 100 grit paper, then wiped it down well with alcohol, then sprayed it with the primer, outdoors, and let it dry indoors.

I just finished the priming of the heatsink, and restuck the tape on it after the primer dried. If it fails like it did before, it will come loose and bulge up in ripples in about 10 minutes.


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## Hoppy

One strip of LEDs, at 35 inches, 4 PAR.
At 25" - 5 PAR
At 19" - 9 PAR

2 strips of LEDs, at 35 inches, 6 PAR
At 23" - 11 PAR
At 20" - 15 PAR


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## thelub

Promising?

Is it that blue in real life? The picture makes it look more suited for a reef tank


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## Hoppy

It is definitely not warm white! The color is bluer than 6700K bulbs or even, perhaps, 10000K bulbs. I will be adding two strips of much lower power red LEDs and two of much lower power green LEDs, so that's going to affect the final color quite a bit. It you look at a spectral distribution chart for some typical 5050 SMD LEDs the blue peak is considerably wider and higher than for Cree cool white LEDs. It would probably be best to combine these with at least 1/3 warm white LED strips, plus perhaps a few red lower power LED strips.


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## Hoppy

More strangeness! The double sided tape is now coming loose from the back of the LEDs, not the aluminum. I think the next step has to be getting a roll of the tape GitMoe recommended. Right now I have to wonder how anyone ever makes this stuff stay where it is installed.


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## mossback

What is the spacing between diodes on the strips? From you photo it looks like it might be 6 per 10 cm segment. By the wildest of coincidences, a chunk of egg crate that I picked up some time ago has 6 squares per 10 cm. 

If you could work out how to use egg crate to capture the LED strips against the heat sinks, you could use thermal paste rather than adhesive tape and solve a bunch of problems.


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## Hoppy

The LEDs are 1.67 cm apart, 300 on a 500 cm strip of tape. But, in the other direction the spacing varies because the strips are not equally spaced. The red and green ones have a different tape width. I have 12 strips in about 6 3/8 inches, which works out to about 1.3 cm average LED spacing. That is a good idea to work on though.


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## yashmack

are these supposed to be water proof LEDs?
if not you might want to try those next time, theyre encased in a clear resin which would prevent the LED from separating hopefully
sounds like they used cheap tape for the LEDs 

what seller did you get them from on ebay?


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## Greystoke

Hoppy said:


> More strangeness! The double sided tape is now coming loose from the back of the LEDs, not the aluminum. I think the next step has to be getting a roll of the tape GitMoe recommended. Right now I have to wonder how anyone ever makes this stuff stay where it is installed.


:biggrin: You're no joking, but . . . 
if the tape detaches on the side of the LEDs, then one drop of (waterproof :icon_excl) super glue will fix that.


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## Hoppy

Greystoke said:


> :biggrin: You're no joking, but . . .
> if the tape detaches on the side of the LEDs, then one drop of (waterproof :icon_excl) super glue will fix that.


No, I wasn't joking, but as the day moved along, only the first strip is a problem. That one was stuck on 3 times before I got it "right". But, the real reason for the separation of the adhesive tape from the LED tape is that I stuck on the LED tape without waiting long enough for the primer to dry enough. The residual solvent in the primer is what made it come loose. Both the small test piece of aluminum and the first strip on the heatsink came loose that way. The remaining strips were installed a couple of hours or so later, after the primer dried more thoroughly. Dumb mistake!!:redface:

I plan to buy some of the double sided tape and reinstall that first strip with it tomorrow. It looks like the final 10 strip light will work as I want it to, based on extrapolating the PAR data I have now.


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## Hoppy

yashmack said:


> are these supposed to be water proof LEDs?
> if not you might want to try those next time, theyre encased in a clear resin which would prevent the LED from separating hopefully
> sounds like they used cheap tape for the LEDs
> 
> what seller did you get them from on ebay?


No, they aren't the waterproof ones. And, it isn't the LEDs that are separating, since they are soldered in place, it is the doublesided adhesive tape that is separating from the LED tape. Of course the sellers of these tapes provide absolutely no instructions or cautions about how to install them. So, dummies like I feel now, have to learn the hard way.


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## GitMoe

Progress... I'm still super excited to see how this works out. I can almost guarantee that tape will stick...

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk


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## yashmack

Hoppy said:


> No, they aren't the waterproof ones. And, it isn't the LEDs that are separating, since they are soldered in place, it is the doublesided adhesive tape that is separating from the LED tape. Of course the sellers of these tapes provide absolutely no instructions or cautions about how to install them. So, dummies like I feel now, have to learn the hard way.


if i can get hold of my led supplier this weekend I will try and find out if I can get the LED rolls without any sticky tape on them, then we can use whatever method we want to stick them on including thermal epoxy like Arctic Silver Thermal Adhesive or something similar....

He still hasnt replied back with prices 
I might just have to go over to his house soon


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## DarkCobra

yashmack said:


> thermal epoxy like Arctic Silver Thermal Adhesive or something similar....


Given the surface area involved for all these strips, wouldn't the cost of Arctic Silver be excessive?

And given the low power density and low thermal conductivity of the strips themselves, wouldn't the performance of Arctic Silver essentially be wasted?

(Not that I find Arctic Silver all that special anyway. I once misplaced all my thermal compounds in the wee morning hours, and needed to attach a CPU heatsink immediately, so I improvised and used _axle grease_. Worked fine and ran it that way for a year, then went back and replaced it with AS paste. Expected a temperature drop in doing so, but instead the CPU temp went _up_ by 3°F!)


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## Hoppy

GitMoe said:


> Progress... I'm still super excited to see how this works out. I can almost guarantee that tape will stick...
> 
> Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk


I checked that tape out, and found it is one of the foam plastic backed tapes, with the foam about a mm thick. That doesn't seem acceptable, due to the heat insulating effect of the foam plastic. So, I bought ordinary Scotch "Permanent Double Sided Tape" which is very thin. I used it for 3 rows, the first one, that had come completely unstuck, and for two rows where the LED tape adhesive seemed very non-tacky. It looks like it will work fine.


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## Hoppy

All 8 strips of the cool white LED tape are installed, and tested. They all light up fine, but the PAR is not linear vs the number of strips, which it should be. Instead of getting 2X the PAR with 8 strips that I get with 4 strips, I only get 1.45X. That means I am short of PAR at the distance where I want to use this. A possible reason is that the current is less with all 8 strips than it was with 4 strips. I have read that the best way to hook up a long strip of LEDs like this is to apply the power at both ends of the strip - connect the + voltage to the + terminal at both ends, and the same with the - voltage. That will be the next test. It will improve the output if it is resistance of the long wires in the tape that is reducing the current.

The data:
At 20" distance - 40 PAR
At 23" distance - 31 PAR
At 25" distance - 26 PAR
At 35" distance - 14 PAR

EDIT:
I added wires to the other end of the strips, so the power is fed from both ends of the combined strip. It did raise the PAR substantially!

The data:
At 20" distance - 47 PAR
At 23" distance - 37 PAR
At 35 1/2" distance - 18 PAR

The increase in PAR with more strips still isn't quite linear, but it is a lot closer to being linear. And, this is still lower than I want it at 34" distance, where I want to use it. I could lower the distance to 32", and would get about 25 PAR, which is close enough to my goal of 30 PAR. Possibly that will be increased a bit by the 2 red and 2 green strips, which are the next test to do.


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## GitMoe

Those are some promising numbers. So if I was looking to hit 70 PAR I'd need 24 strips of the same length? And probably dual power supplies? I think at that point it might be more economical to just get a Ray2. But it could be fun to build something...


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## Hoppy

GitMoe said:


> Those are some promising numbers. So if I was looking to hit 70 PAR I'd need 24 strips of the same length? And probably dual power supplies? I think at that point it might be more economical to just get a Ray2. But it could be fun to build something...


Remember, this light will be suspended several inches above the top of the tank. If I lowered it to sit on the tank, I would have around 40-45 PAR, which is as much light as I can see ever wanting. If you wanted 70 PAR on a 24 inch high tank, with 2 inches of substrate, you could get that with about 15 strips at 22 inches from the substrate. That would be two 6 amp, 12 volt power supplies, or a 12 amp 12 volt power supply. My 5 meters of LEDs cost about $16, so you would spend twice that, or a bit more to get the waterproof ones. And, the joy of DIY would be yours!:tongue:


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## Hoppy

All 12 rows of LEDs now installed. The red and green ones are waterproof, which makes them easier to handle and stick down, but much harder to solder together - you have to remove the clear, soft plastic cover from the solder pads first, a royal pain to do. Here is the business side of the heatsink with LEDs:









I measured the PAR with the green and red LEDs on and off. The difference, at a 35 inch distance is 18 to 19 PAR (with them on). The difference to the eye is nothing. The colored LEDs are much lower power ones, so I'm not surprised. Here are photos of the two tests, green and red on and off. I had to adjust the color balance of the photos, trying to keep the floor color as close to the same as I could, and to get about the visual appearance of the white board as I saw it.
With the green and red off:









Then with the green and red on:









Note the yellow ladder legs, the red PAR meter case, the green extension cord, and the blue masking tape.


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## Hoppy

Note the reflections of the individual LEDs. The blue color of the light isn't at all obvious when I see it, so I'm pretty sure that is a flaw in the camera's ability to handle a light with 3 big peaks in the blue area, green and red. I couldn't adjust the colors to make it look like it looks to my eyes, without messing up the red case of the PAR meter.

I have been planning on painting the interior of the shade for this a dull black, so it doesn't reflect any light into the viewers eyes. But, now I'm wondering if I can increase the PAR significantly by lining it with aluminized mylar or aluminum foil in a limited area of the shade. As you can see, it now lights up most of the room, so if I could use some of that light, redirected, it might be a good idea.


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## Greystoke

Hoppy said:


> . . . But, now I'm wondering if I can increase the PAR significantly by lining it with aluminized mylar or aluminum foil in a limited area of the shade.


The LEDs cause a lot of reflection off the water surface, which I thought was surprising. Now I have a mylar reflector behind my LEDs.

There is a distinct net increase, but I can't tell you exactly how much.
Just guessing: Without the reflector the LEDs light-up the ceiling above the tank to quite an extent.
Judging from that, I think at least 10 - 20% of the total is reflected, ie: 80 - 90% goes down into the tank and 10 - 20% goes up into space.


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## Hoppy

I'm thinking about replacing the red and green LEDs with warm white 5630 LEDs, for about a 20% increase in PAR. And, they would tone down the blueness of the cool white ones. My present LED light is 50-50 cool and warm white, and I don't like the color - too yellow. So, having 1/3 warm white-2/3 cool white should look better to me.

But, that means another $30 or so. Maybe I will think some more. If I'm going to lose 10-20% of the PAR in reflection off the water I will need more than I think I can get with what I have.


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## skanderson

how is the temp of the heatsink when they are all on and lit up? if the temp is too high that could explain the lack of scaling on the addition of more strings.


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## DarkCobra

The greater the angle light strikes water at, the more of it is reflected. This style of SMD LED typically has no built-in lens or dome, so you get lots of reflection.

Mirror-like surfaces (like Mylar) are the worst choice here. They cause the light to bounce back at the same angle that the water has already rejected, which doesn't help much. In this case you _want_ the reflector to scatter the light. Aluminum foil, flat white paint, or Kool Seal White Elastomeric Roof Coating are good choices, listed in approximately increasing efficiency.


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## jeffkrol

Hoppy said:


> But, that means another $30 or so. Maybe I will think some more. If I'm going to lose 10-20% of the PAR in reflection off the water I will need more than I think I can get with what I have.


LOL, not sure how this is going to get "cheaper" (or, arguably better) than just gluing 1W Chinese LED's to an aluminum strip............


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## Hoppy

skanderson said:


> how is the temp of the heatsink when they are all on and lit up? if the temp is too high that could explain the lack of scaling on the addition of more strings.


After it was on for several minutes last night I checked the heatsink temperature, by hand, and it was just barely warm. I think the reason for the relatively low output from these SMD LEDs is the large angle at which they radiate light. That spreads out the lumens so much it drops the intensity a lot. 

And, of course that suggests that a well designed reflector surrounding the array of LEDs could capture a lot of that wasted light. My design problem is to capture the wasted light without also causing a lot of light to be reflected to the eyes of someone looking at the tank. The same reflector that redirects light down to the tank also redirects some of the light, especially the twice reflected light almost parallel to the top of the tank.

Tentatively, it looks like putting reflective material on the walls of the "shade" around the light will work well, if the reflective material is limited to the bottom half of the "shade". I'm still thinking about that, and may make a temporary cardboard "shade" to test the effect.


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## Hoppy

DarkCobra said:


> The greater the angle light strikes water at, the more of it is reflected. This style of SMD LED typically has no built-in lens or dome, so you get lots of reflection.
> 
> Mirror-like surfaces (like Mylar) are the worst choice here. They cause the light to bounce back at the same angle that the water has already rejected, which doesn't help much. In this case you _want_ the reflector to scatter the light. Aluminum foil, flat white paint, or Kool Seal White Elastomeric Roof Coating are good choices, listed in approximately increasing efficiency.


But, the light striking the water surface will be at the same angle, whether the LED has a lens or not. The light at greater angles doesn't make it down to the water, missing the tank entirely. Remember, this light is to be about 10 inches above the top of the tank, almost a foot from the water, and it is only 6 inches by 24 inches, on a 18 inch by 36 inch tank.


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## jeffkrol

Hoppy said:


> snip


Just curve the heat sink... you have 4 strips bound together w/ cross strips

Just beat the cross strips into a curved or angular shape..You will have to probably cut longer ones though...


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## Hoppy

A pretty simple "shade" design, lined with aluminum foil or aluminized mylar, should do what I want. This is easy to make, and should virtually eliminate any eye irritation from the LEDs, plus capturing most of the light emissions from the LEDs. Of course now I need to make a cardboard mockup to see if it really does this.



jeffkrol said:


> Just curve the heat sink... you have 4 strips bound together w/ cross strips
> 
> Just beat the cross strips into a curved or angular shape..You will have to probably cut longer ones though...


This would be a major undertaking, with all of the LEDs glued in place. I would need to remove all of them, disassemble the heatsink, and use a less hard aluminum alloy for the cross pieces so they could be bent. And, figuring out the right amount of bend would take a lot of work too.


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## DogFish

DarkCobra said:


> ....Mirror-like surfaces (like Mylar) are the worst choice here. They cause the light to bounce back at the same angle that the water has already rejected, which doesn't help much. In this case you _want_ the reflector to scatter the light. Aluminum foil, flat white paint, or Kool Seal White Elastomeric Roof Coating are good choices, listed in approximately increasing efficiency.


Would you explain why a mirror like surface like Mylar is the worst choice while a mirror like surface like Aluminum foil is a good choice???

Would the Aluminum you are proposing be crinkled? I did a lot of reading & chatted with Hoppy about this topic last year when setting up my Aquaponic system and would like to know more about your experience or read a supporting link.

Thanks


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## jeffkrol

Hoppy said:


> This would be a major undertaking, with all of the LEDs glued in place. I would need to remove all of them, disassemble the heatsink, and use a less hard aluminum alloy for the cross pieces so they could be bent. And, figuring out the right amount of bend would take a lot of work too.


Well .. not as I see it but.. 

cut on the red lines.. glue to any substrate you want.. Figuring the angles isn't that difficult.. assuming the angle of the 5050's is roughly 110 degrees or more.. 

Combined angle should not exceed 70 degrees..


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## Hoppy

The cone angle of the LEDs is 120 degrees. If you tilt one to stop the the light at the front edge of the LED cone of light from going beyond the edge of the front of the tank, the light from the back edge of the LED cone of light goes out horizontally towards the back. That accomplishes nothing good. It takes either a lens to cut down the cone angle, or reflectors to redirect the light at the edges back towards the tank. It isn't that the light from all of the LEDs isn't directed towards the center of the tank, it is that too much of the total light from each LED escapes the tank entirely. When I hang the light with nothing around it, it lights up the whole floor, instead of just an area in the center of the floor. And, that was true with one strip as well as with 12 strips.


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## Hoppy

DogFish said:


> Would you explain why a mirror like surface like Mylar is the worst choice while a mirror like surface like Aluminum foil is a good choice???
> 
> Would the Aluminum you are proposing be crinkled? I did a lot of reading & chatted with Hoppy about this topic last year when setting up my Aquaponic system and would like to know more about your experience or read a supporting link.
> 
> Thanks


Also, water never reflects 100% of the incident light. Some of the light always is transmitted through the air-water interface. So, if you had a flat, horizontal perfect mirror above the LEDs, the light could theoretically bounce back and forth between the water and the mirror, with more and more of it going into the water. In reality, of course, after a couple of reflections off the water the intensity would be too low to care if you captured it. And, the water surface is always a bit rippled, so the reflected light is scattered somewhat too. 

I'm not even convinced yet that LED light is reflected back from the water any differently than light from any other source. At 90 degrees to the water, virtually all of the light should be transmitted, not reflected.


----------



## Greystoke

Hoppy said:


> . . . I'm not even convinced yet that LED light is reflected back from the water any differently than light from any other source. At 90 degrees to the water, virtually all of the light should be transmitted, not reflected.


Light from other sources are more directionally distributed because of the opaque covers of the bulbs.
There are some companies that produce LED fixtures with opaque covers. I had the opportunity to try one out, and - although I can't give you exact measurements - I did get the impression that it made an improvement.

Based on that experience, I would say that a wrinkled back reflector would be a good idea.


----------



## Greystoke

Another aspect is that light follows a specific rule that governs its reflection off water.

If you stand far away from a water surface, you only see the *above-water* scenery reflecting off the surface, and you don't see anything that moves *below* the surface. It would appear - from this point - that all light is reflected off the water surface.
But . . . as you get closer, the reflections starts to change and - as your angle of view into the water becomes more acute and approaches 60° - you will start to see the things that are *under water.*
The math to calculate this angle escapes me, but I understand that it is supposed to be ≈55°.

Light directed above this angle will penetrate *into* the water, whereas light below that angle will be progressively reflected *off* the water.

_(It is - in fact - a fairly abrupt transition. The view that a diver has of what's above the water is restricted by a circle ruled by that angle of 55° and with the diver in the centre.
I remember from my scuba days how well defined that circle is when I looked up)_ 

LEDs are usually fitted with lens caps that widens the beam, say: about 120°. However, there is a lot of peripheral light above that angle, which - of necessity - will be reflected (see pic).






Note that the amount of light above 55° - on either side of this curve - will be *reflected*.


----------



## DarkCobra

Aha! Now I see what you're actually doing, and a mirror-like reflector is perfect for that.

With talk of water reflections, Mylar behind LEDs and so on, I thought you were going to be attaching this material to the heatsink, in the spaces between LED strips, to return light that was bounced off the water. In that case you would want a more diffuse reflector.



DogFish said:


> Would you explain why a mirror like surface like Mylar is the worst choice while a mirror like surface like Aluminum foil is a good choice???


See above, if a diffuse reflector were needed then aluminum foil is better than Mylar, but still low in the list I gave in order of efficiency.


----------



## Sgtreef

So is it a good idea to always use lens on LED'S?


Thanks


Jeff


----------



## Greystoke

Yes, and I think that 120° is a good angle to work with, besides, a lot of LEDs are sold with built-in 120° lenses.


----------



## Hoppy

Very few things are "always" a good idea! Lenses on LEDs are very useful when you have a need to get a more narrow beam of light from the LED. But, if the LEDs are an inch above the water, a lens is not necessarily a good idea. The surface mounted LEDs on PCB tapes don't have individual lenses, so they emit a wide angle beam of light. Those tapes were designed for many uses, not including aquarium lights - a quick way to go broke is to design something specifically for a planted aquarium.

The light from a bare LED junction is much like the light from a point source, emitting over a very broad angle. But, a bare LED junction would quickly be destroyed if not protected by some kind of transparent shield. So, the LEDs we can buy all have a clear plastic shield, and that is usually shaped to concentrate the emitted light into a narrower beam. The shields on the LEDs used on PCB tapes appears to be just a flat sheet, with little if any curvature.

It would be very expensive to put individual lenses on each of the 300 or so LEDs on a 5 meter long tape, so the only inexpensive option is to use reflectors of some kind if we want a narrower beam of light. That's what I'm trying to do.


----------



## Hoppy

At 36 inches, the PAR without the "shade" is 18. With the "shade", as shown above, it is 31! Now I consider that a triumph!


----------



## DarkCobra

Hoppy said:


> At 36 inches, the PAR without the "shade" is 18. With the "shade", as shown above, it is 31! Now I consider that a triumph!


Indeed! Did you use Mylar as planned?


----------



## Hoppy

The "shade", perhaps better called the reflector, is a mock-up made of cardboard with aluminum foil, shiny side out, taped inside on the slanted long sides only. This makes the project entirely worth completing! I'm not sure if I will use mylar or foil on the final reflector, which will be made of thin birch plywood (I think). Notice the reduced area that is brightly lighted.

At 20 inches this gives 84 PAR!


----------



## Hoppy

I can use this as originally planned, with the light 36 inches or a bit more above the substrate, to get much less variation in PAR from substrate to water surface. Rarely have I felt so pleased with a way-out DIY project.


----------



## GitMoe

You've sold me Hoppy. I was going to buy a Fugeray Planted+ for my SpecV but instead I'm going to make a fixture using your info here. I'm thinking 2 strips white, 1 strip red, 1 strip blue inside a reflected custom hood. You'r e the best Hoppy. This is a great experiment...


----------



## thelub

This is fantastic. My T8's sit ~26" over the substrate on my 80g tank so this would provide more than enough light that I was looking for.


----------



## Hoppy

For anyone who wants to try this, remember these are 5630 SMD tapes, not 5050 SMD. 5630 produces about twice the lumens per discrete LED than 5050 tapes.


----------



## Greystoke

Hoppy said:


> The light from a bare LED junction is much like the light from a point source, emitting over a very broad angle. But, a bare LED junction would quickly be destroyed if not protected by some kind of transparent shield. So, the LEDs we can buy all have a clear plastic shield, and that is usually shaped to concentrate the emitted light into a narrower beam. The shields on the LEDs used on PCB tapes appears to be just a flat sheet, with little if any curvature.


LED chips are usually encapsulated ("potted") in clear or colored molded plastic shells.
Apart from providing support and protection, one purpose of this plastic shell is to boost the light emission from the semiconductor by acting as a diffusing lens, allowing light to be emitted at a much *higher* angle of incidence from the light cone than the bare chip is able to emit alone.

(_info from Wikipedia_)


----------



## Greystoke

I have to admit that your cardboard box does not look very appealing and - despite your claim of "success" - is difficult to understand *why* (?)

If you lowered the LEDs to just 2-3" above the water, then probably ALL the light generated will hit the water surface, and - from there on - will be transmitted down the water column by *total internal reflection* off the vertical glass plates. That way, you would achieve the same result, except the box' sides are now replaced by the tank walls.

As in:








Note: The RH picture shows the condition of the LED's "fringe" illumination through a light cone of 120°


----------



## 1987

Nice work Hoppy. I think I just found my new summer project!


----------



## Hoppy

Greystoke said:


> I have to admit that your cardboard box does not look very appealing and - despite your claim of "success" - is difficult to understand *why* (?)
> 
> If you lowered the LEDs to just 2-3" above the water, then probably ALL the light generated will hit the water surface, and - from there on - will be transmitted down the water column by internal reflection off the vertical glass plates. That way, you would achieve the same result, except the box' sides are now replaced by the tank walls.
> 
> As in:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Note: The RH picture shows the condition of the LED's "fringe" illumination through a light cone of 120°


That is a good question:icon_smil
I started looking at ways to make a pendant light, which would hang well above the tank primarily to reduce the range of PAR values in the tank. My present light is a LED light, that sits almost right on top of the tank. As a result, when I have 20-25 PAR at the substrate, which I do, the PAR near the water surface is many times higher, because light intensity drops roughly with the square of the distance from the light. It drops much less than that with a spread out array of LEDs, since as you get closer to the light fewer of the LEDs contribute to the total intensity at that spot. But, I found when I started this tank with that light that algae was a problem, which always started near the water surface, then if I didn't clear it up immediately, it spread down to the substrate.

I chose one foot above the top of the two foot high tank, to get a substantial effect of having it high above the tank, without having to use a super high output light to compensate for the high above the tank placement.

When my first attempt, using high power LEDs failed, I accidentally noticed someone asking about LED tapes, and started looking at them. Virtually no one thought they would be a good idea, which intrigued me, given the very low cost that this form of LEDs. So, it was a challenge to try to make a light using them.

I used my LED light intensity calculator program, developed from data with Cree LEDs to estimate what I would need to make this work, and it appeared to be relatively easy to do so. While my calculator didn't give the right answer, it did lead me to the right decisions.

My satisfaction comes from solving the engineering challenge, from seeing myself ending up with the type of light I want, and from doing something different, which I enjoy.


----------



## Greystoke

Hoppy said:


> . . . the PAR near the water surface is many times higher, because light intensity drops roughly with the square of the distance from the light. It drops much less than that with a spread out array of LEDs, since as you get closer to the light fewer of the LEDs contribute to the total intensity at that spot. But, I found when I started this tank with that light that algae was a problem, which always started near the water surface, then if I didn't clear it up immediately, it spread down to the substrate.
> 
> I chose one foot above the top of the two foot high tank, to get a substantial effect of having it high above the tank, without having to use a super high output light to compensate for the high above the tank placement.


I understand your reasoning, but I think that you could achieve the same result without this “high hat” solution by spreading the LED(strips) evenly across the width of the tank, or. . . “split” the combined light unit into individual strips which you can then mount across the width of your tank.



Hoppy said:


> When my first attempt, using high power LEDs failed, I accidentally noticed someone asking about LED tapes, and started looking at them. Virtually no one thought they would be a good idea, which intrigued me, given the very low cost that this form of LEDs. So, it was a challenge to try to make a light using them.


Granted, but those type of LEDs have a low efficiency and are heading to become obsolete. The only reason why they are still around is because they are *cheap*.



Hoppy said:


> My satisfaction comes from solving the engineering challenge, from seeing myself ending up with the type of light I want, and from doing something different, which I enjoy.


I can well appreciate that.


----------



## saiko

Promising :thumbsup:

Isnt ADA using similar LEDs? 
5630 is 5.6mm X 3.0mm, so anyone who has the dimensions of the Aquasky LEDs?

Thank you.


----------



## Hoppy

Greystoke said:


> I understand your reasoning, but I think that you could achieve the same result without this “high hat” solution by spreading the LED(strips) evenly across the width of the tank, or. . . “split” the combined light unit into individual strips which you can then mount across the width of your tank.


 When you rely on reflections off the glass tank sides for the PAR you want, you also force yourself to keep those glass tank sides very clean all the time. Once a biofilm of any kind grows on the glass, the reflection is lost, the light intensity drops, and your plants will complain bitterly! (I can't stand to listen to those complaints:red_mouth)


> Granted, but those type of LEDs have a low efficiency and are heading to become obsolete. The only reason why they are still around is because they are *cheap*.


These tape LEDs seem to be used primarily to "decorate" automobiles, based on what I read. They will obviously become obsolete, just as all Cree LEDs have become obsolete as progress marches on. Perhaps there will be even more powerful SMD tape LEDs in the future, with better efficiency. For now, they offer an interesting, cheap, easy way to make a usable planted tank light.


----------



## Greystoke

hé hé, 
Your reflectors aren't exactly loss-free either, but . . .
Very valid points indeed.

That reminds me . . . got to clean the glass walls.


----------



## thelub

Hoppy, what do you think of these? I think I'm going to pull the plug on 2 rolls. I think that should be enough for my 80g.

Amazon.com - 360deal 5m16.4ft Hot Sale SMD 5630 White 300 LED Flexible Strip Light 12v Brighter than 5050 - String Lights


----------



## yashmack

Hoppy said:


> When you rely on reflections off the glass tank sides for the PAR you want, you also force yourself to keep those glass tank sides very clean all the time. Once a biofilm of any kind grows on the glass, the reflection is lost, the light intensity drops, and your plants will complain bitterly! (I can't stand to listen to those complaints:red_mouth)
> 
> These tape LEDs seem to be used primarily to "decorate" automobiles, based on what I read. They will obviously become obsolete, just as all Cree LEDs have become obsolete as progress marches on. Perhaps there will be even more powerful SMD tape LEDs in the future, with better efficiency. For now, they offer an interesting, cheap, easy way to make a usable planted tank light.


5730s are already making their way into the market getting around 300 lumens per foot now

http://www.ledworldlighting.com/ledstrip.html


----------



## Greystoke

OK guys,
I have been informed that much of the development in SMD technology is based on combining a number of chips (2-3) in a single unit.
There's no difference in the chips and NO improvement of the efficiency. Just Yeah Olde Chips as usual, but more compact.
Makes sense from a marketing point and most of us seem to fall for it, but you can't call this progress.


----------



## yashmack

being able to pack more chips into a smaller area than was previously possible, by definition that is progress, being able to do something you previously could not...

LEDs are currently at an efficiency wall, once you start feeding large amounts of power into them they stop producing as much light and start making heat
there are several ways they are working to correct this but nothing has hit the market yet
so the current solution is to take the already efficient chips and pack them in together

once the new tech comes out LEDs will be much more efficient and put out even more light than they did before

old article but has some interesting info:
http://www.gizmag.com/efficient-light-extraction-from-semiconductors-leds/16208/


----------



## skanderson

I would disagree with the efficiency wall idea. 2 chip makers that I know of have announced 200 lumen per watt warm white emitters. this is about double of what is currently on the market. one of the companies has set a release date of late this year on them.


----------



## yashmack

skanderson said:


> I would disagree with the efficiency wall idea. 2 chip makers that I know of have announced 200 lumen per watt warm white emitters. this is about double of what is currently on the market. one of the companies has set a release date of late this year on them.


thats why i said the new tech hadnt made it to market yet
the efficiency wall was real and hasnt been surpassed yet by an LED on the retail market....
not to my knowledge anyway, im also going by news articles ive seen and not industry knowledge  so i could be out of date by a bit...

there are LEDs that are about to come out, like you said, that are getting over the 100 lumens per watt typically seen with fluorescent lights but i dont think theyre widely available yet and certainly are not yet available from the ebay sellers that typically sell the cheapest LEDs available  hehehe

here is the most recent news ive seen:
http://www.gizmag.com/green-ray-philips-most-efficient-leds/27046/


> US start-up Green Ray LED claims to have the world's most efficient LED lighting product, a replacement for a T8-type fluorescent tube which emits a remarkable 173 lumens per watt.





> ...according to Philips, it seems the DoE may soon have to raise the upper limit on that efficacy slider. It has announced a prototype LED lamp at 200 lm/W. The prototype is also tube-shaped (which Philips calls TLED), and though no precise color temperature has been announced, the company claims this is a warm white product. However, Philips says the prototype won't be ready for a commercial launch until 2015.


----------



## Greystoke

OK,
Can't wait.

Meanwhile, it would be nice if the US light industry was forced to publish more information about their products. At the moment its pathetically little.

In most cases I can't get a spectrum out of them.


----------



## yashmack

Greystoke said:


> OK,
> Can't wait.
> 
> Meanwhile, it would be nice if the US light industry was forced to publish more information about their products. At the moment its pathetically little.
> 
> In most cases I can't get a spectrum out of them.


do you mean lighting in general or LED lights?
recently every single CFL bulb, the screw in type at least, has the lumens and color temp listed on the box
so do the few LED bulbs they have on the shelves too


----------



## DarkCobra

The Cree MK-R will already do 200 lumens per watt. If, that is, you don't mind running your 15W LED at only 1W. Not very useful, and most of the super high efficiency claims for white emitters have similar caveats...

Going to further extremes, the king is a LED with 230% efficiency:

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-03/09/230-percent-efficient-leds

If you don't mind that it only produces 69 _picowatts_ of light (using 30 picowatts of power)!

Speaking practically though, the most efficient white emitter is... royal blue. Coupled with a remote phosphor. Beats the pants off of any traditional white LED in efficiency. The Green Ray tube light you linked earlier is based on that, as are most of the newest efficient fixtures. You can already buy Chromalit remote phosphors in a wide variety of shapes, with reasonable minimum orders and prices. I can buy $20 of it right now, a back-of-napkin calculation says it can convert enough royal blue to white to equal 200W of T5HO - and that's a conservative estimate. It can be cut to any size you want. It can also perfectly blend in other colors of LEDs behind it, which lets you fill in gaps in the spectrum, without colored shadows. Throw in a little aqua and deep red, and get a high CRI light source that can finally equal or exceed the light quality from fluorescents. I've seen a DIY build on a forum dedicated to cultivation of a certain illicit herb, I'm really surprised clearer heads here haven't yet tried. Or even seem aware of it. Why is everyone waiting for the new tech? It's already here and DIY-able.


----------



## Greystoke

yashmack said:


> do you mean lighting in general or LED lights?
> recently every single CFL bulb, the screw in type at least, has the lumens and color temp listed on the box
> so do the few LED bulbs they have on the shelves too


Fluorescents as well as LEDs.

I've been hunting US companies for information for YEARS. Some of them deliberately distort the spectrum, which I can detect because the standard mercury spikes are in the wrong wave length spot. Other's simply ignore your e-mails.

For LEDs its *Lumen* as well as *PAR*, because the ratio gives an indication of the Kelvin rating, but guess what (?), you get the Lumen rating, but not PAR.

Most LEDs have an identical spectrum, usually a peak at around 450nm followed by a wide bulge from 400 to 700nm, maximising around 550nm.
Depending on the K-rating the maxima have different proportions, while some manufacturers use plastic colour caps to achieve the same result, but that way they lose a significant amount of Lumen/Watt compared to the "naked" LED.


----------



## Greystoke

DarkCobra said:


> . . . I've seen a DIY build on a forum dedicated to cultivation of a certain illicit herb, I'm really surprised clearer heads here haven't yet tried. Or even seem aware of it. Why is everyone waiting for the new tech? It's already here and DIY-able.


Right you are, but that's because those illicit herbalists have money to burn, which unfortunately I haven't


----------



## jeffkrol

DarkCobra said:


> The Cree MK-R will already do 200 lumens per watt. If, that is, you don't mind running your 15W LED at only 1W. Not very useful, and most of the super high efficiency claims for white emitters have similar caveats...
> 
> Going to further extremes, the king is a LED with 230% efficiency:
> 
> http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-03/09/230-percent-efficient-leds
> 
> If you don't mind that it only produces 69 _picowatts_ of light (using 30 picowatts of power)!
> 
> Speaking practically though, the most efficient white emitter is... royal blue. Coupled with a remote phosphor. Beats the pants off of any traditional white LED in efficiency. The Green Ray tube light you linked earlier is based on that, as are most of the newest efficient fixtures. You can already buy Chromalit remote phosphors in a wide variety of shapes, with reasonable minimum orders and prices. I can buy $20 of it right now, a back-of-napkin calculation says it can convert enough royal blue to white to equal 200W of T5HO - and that's a conservative estimate. It can be cut to any size you want. It can also perfectly blend in other colors of LEDs behind it, which lets you fill in gaps in the spectrum, without colored shadows. Throw in a little aqua and deep red, and get a high CRI light source that can finally equal or exceed the light quality from fluorescents. I've seen a DIY build on a forum dedicated to cultivation of a certain illicit herb, I'm really surprised clearer heads here haven't yet tried. Or even seem aware of it. Why is everyone waiting for the new tech? It's already here and DIY-able.


I agree in principal w/ most of what you say, except that "white" LEDs are just blue (royal blue, UV, blue) w/ phosphors.. You are only moving the location of the phosphor..


> The technology of remote phosphor light source element is achieved by bonding phosphor to a substrate, instead of incorporating it into the LED die package.





> Because the phosphor has been separated from the energy source and can now be made in any shape and any color, unidirectional light, hot spots, inconsistency and design limitations are no longer SSL challenges.


http://www.futurelightingsolutions.com/en/technologies/Pages/remote_phosphor.aspx
Also all phosphors "wear out".. where unicolor LEDS are not near as prone to this..
It gets down to "replacing" phosphors vs bulbs.. 

Where are the "phosphor-less" whites???
http://optics.org/article/16534


----------



## Hoppy

thelub said:


> Hoppy, what do you think of these? I think I'm going to pull the plug on 2 rolls. I think that should be enough for my 80g.
> 
> Amazon.com - 360deal 5m16.4ft Hot Sale SMD 5630 White 300 LED Flexible Strip Light 12v Brighter than 5050 - String Lights


That looks like a good deal to me. You could get 10 three foot long rows of LEDs with those two rolls, so it should easily light an 80 gallon tank (assuming it is 48 inches long). I suspect the light will look better if you could mix in about 1/4 of the rows as warm white. But, I haven't yet seen how mine looks lighting a planted tank.


----------



## Hoppy

The "shade/reflector" is made of 3 mm thick birch plywood - a 24" X 30" piece from my local Woodcraft store, for about $8. It is just butt joints, glued with yellow carpenter's glue. I still need to sand it, stain it, and apply a clear polyurethane finish. Hopefully, I can get a reasonable match to the oak stand the tank sits on. I will use spray cement to apply aluminum foil to the inside of the front and back sloped panels. This matches the cardboard mock-up I tested.








To connect the two 12 VDC powersupplies I used a pair of 12 foot DC Power extension cables, to get the connectors and wires needed. I cut off the socket connector halves and soldered them to the power wires to the LEDs. This makes stringing the wires through the bent conduit hangers much easier, and disassembly for moving even easier.

I could have used a single 12 VDC supply, but it had to be rated for about 8-10 watts, and all I have are a 6 watt and a 3 watt supply, so I just used both. At least the two hanger wires will look matched - both will have a power cable twisted around them.


----------



## DarkCobra

jeffkrol said:


> You are only moving the location of the phosphor...
> Also all phosphors "wear out".. where unicolor LEDS are not near as prone to this.. It gets down to "replacing" phosphors vs bulbs..


"Only"? Moving the phosphor away from the heat source increases both efficiency and longevity. Chromalit has been real-life tested to 8,000 hours, and is projected to make it to 25,000 hours before it loses about 1% of its original output.

And assuming it continues that trend linearly, if you ran it 24 hours a day for the next 50 years, it would lose 17.5% of its original output. Now what's this about replacing phosphors? 

Phosphors bonded to a hot LED die don't fare nearly so well. I haven't yet looked at lumen maintenance of white vs. royal blue emitters, but I'd expect white would be significantly worse due to phosphor degradation.



jeffkrol said:


> Where are the "phosphor-less" whites???


Royal blue is currently the most efficient wavelength to produce, and is still more efficient when converted to yellow via phosphor than creating yellow directly. Plus creating yellow directly produces only a sharp wavelength peak, absolutely terrible for planted tanks or color rendition, compared to phosphor's much wider spectrum. I have seen pure blue and yellow LEDs mixed to make "white", long before they had white LEDs. _It's ugly as sin_.

So why, in the link you gave (dated 2002 by the way), were they pursuing phosphor-less blue/yellow LEDs? The link gives the answer, and it's not because such a LED is in any way a good thing:

_"Sumitomo's approach should avoid the patents owned by Nichia, Osram and others in this field."_


----------



## jeffkrol

worth a look here (2007ish)


DarkCobra said:


> So why, in the link you gave (dated 2002 by the way), were they pursuing phosphor-less blue/yellow LEDs? The link gives the answer, and it's not because such a LED is in any way a good thing:
> 
> _"Sumitomo's approach should avoid the patents owned by Nichia, Osram and others in this field."_


Actually the "where is" was a bit sarcastic..But anyways it is
worth a look here (2007-ish) .. 
They are not much different than "modern white" in spectra.
2004 LED. not much different than white and not pure blue/pure yellow mix..
http://ledmuseum.candlepower.us/specx92.htm


----------



## jeffkrol

DarkCobra said:


> "Only"? Moving the phosphor away from the heat source increases both efficiency and longevity. Chromalit has been real-life tested to 8,000 hours, and is projected to make it to 25,000 hours before it loses about 1% of its original output.
> 
> And assuming it continues that trend linearly, if you ran it 24 hours a day for the next 50 years, it would lose 17.5% of its original output. Now what's this about replacing phosphors?
> 
> Phosphors bonded to a hot LED die don't fare nearly so well. I haven't yet looked at lumen maintenance of white vs. royal blue emitters, but I'd expect white would be significantly worse due to phosphor degradation.


Yes moving the phosphor away from a major heat source is probably beneficial.. more so for the plastic part than the phosphors themselves
http://books.google.com/books?id=M2...AQ#v=onepage&q=phosphor photon damage&f=false
flour. lamp phosphors are not much "different".. apparently ion and photon "damage" is more important

I agree the "remote" phosphor idea is a "good thing".. I just don't consider it earth shattering...



> Coupled with a remote phosphor. Beats the pants off of any traditional white LED in efficiency



Are you referring to the "blue plus phosphor" which are the typical "white"?



> Our comparison shows that remote-phosphor systems can provide light output gain of 20% in a high flux, high temperature environment. For now those gains come with an increase in system cost and potentially patent-licensing fees.


http://www.ledsmagazine.com/article...e-phosphor-guides-design-choice-magazine.html


----------



## xmas_one

Sweet! Glad this build worked out, how's the colors look on plants/fish? I like the idea of adding these SMD strips to existing t5ho for a little more umph or color tweaking. Thanks for doing the legwork on this and posting your results!


----------



## thelub

Hoppy said:


> That looks like a good deal to me. You could get 10 three foot long rows of LEDs with those two rolls, so it should easily light an 80 gallon tank (assuming it is 48 inches long). I suspect the light will look better if you could mix in about 1/4 of the rows as warm white. But, I haven't yet seen how mine looks lighting a planted tank.


Thanks for the pointers. I was thinking about going the full 48" but I would trust your suggestion for 36" rows.



DarkCobra said:


> I've seen a DIY build on a forum dedicated to cultivation of a certain illicit herb.....


hey Hey HEY its not illicit everywhere


----------



## skanderson

just federally illegal in the US.


----------



## Sean W.

Hoppy said:


> I can use this as originally planned, with the light 36 inches or a bit more above the substrate, to get much less variation in PAR from substrate to water surface. Rarely have I felt so pleased with a way-out DIY project.


im having a hard time reading this graph, ive never seen a graph like this, maybe thats why...

If i were to build this style of light for my 40 gallon breeder, 36" wide, how much par would i get with five 35" strips at 17"?


----------



## xmas_one

sean w. said:


> im having a hard time reading this graph, ive never seen a graph like this, maybe thats why...
> 
> If i were to build this style of light for my 40 gallon breeder, 36" wide, how much par would i get with five 35" strips at 17"?


~40


----------



## Sean W.

xmas_one said:


> ~40


boo


----------



## Hoppy

I'm assuming you would not have room for a reflector hood/shade, so you would be working from the purple data point lines. So, with 8 rows you would get about 75 PAR. A good estimate is 5/8 of that with just 5 rows, but probably a bit more than that. So, about 45-50 PAR. Or you could add the PAR for 2 rows to that for 3 rows, but probably a bit less than that - around 55 PAR. Therefore, my best guess is 50 PAR. However, longer strips give more PAR at the same distance, so you might get more than 50 PAR, since all of that data is from 24 inch long strips.


----------



## Sean W.

is there a power supply that isnt crazy expensive, around $20 that could run 8 35" rows?


----------



## yashmack

Sean W. said:


> is there a power supply that isnt crazy expensive, around $20 that could run 8 35" rows?


a used power supply from a computer would have more than enough power
I use one for my DIY peltier chiller


----------



## Sean W.

i could get some cheapo no name 200W computer powersupply and just plug the LEDs in the 12v rail?


----------



## jeffkrol

sean w. said:


> is there a power supply that isnt crazy expensive, around $20 that could run 8 35" rows*t*
> 
> ?


$13.99.............

12v 5a 60w 100-240 v dc power supply adapter for led strip 5050 3528 rgb + gift










fleabay.....


----------



## Hoppy

Here's an interesting 12VDC, 10 amp power supply on Everyonesfavorite Bay:


----------



## DarkCobra

Computer power supplies usually require a minimum load on the 5V rail (if I recall right). So you'd have to add a resistor for that. Plus another jumper to get the supply to turn on, the modern ones are triggered by a momentary switch.

Many of the thrift stores around here have boxes of assorted power supplies, including some "brick" style switchers, priced at a buck or two.

Remember, the more voltage you use on a strip LED, the shorter its lifetime. Use 12V max. Some folks even use slightly less. Not sure if the "Prophet" runs at 13.8V continuous or just at low current for a trickle/float charge on lead-acid batteries.


----------



## jeffkrol

DarkCobra said:


> Computer power supplies usually require a minimum load on the 5V rail (if I recall right). So you'd have to add a resistor for that. Plus another jumper to get the supply to turn on, the modern ones are triggered by a momentary switch.


They are also unnecessarily big.....  Though I used a case to hold multiple power supplies.. so it may be a wash..
I've jumper-ed comp supplies to test them, not sure about the 5v rail load being necessary though it could be correct..i just haven't found them very practical or convienient. not to mention they have a high failure rate..(though certainly not JUST this type of power supply.. Capacitor rot is everywhere..  )



DarkCobra said:


> Many of the thrift stores around here have boxes of assorted power supplies, including some "brick" style switchers, priced at a buck or two.
> 
> Remember, the more voltage you use on a strip LED, the shorter its lifetime. Use 12V max. Some folks even use slightly less.


That is where I've gotten most of my power supplies.. One minor catch.. finding ones over an amp or 2 output is not that common.. at least in the "useable" voltage range of 6-24V.. at least in my experience.

I'd guess the strips were just a parallel collection of 3 LED's in series.. You current needs would depend on how many groups of 3 you use.. and a constant current driver..

just guessing here.. Though the "recommended" and sold power supplies are in the 5A range, they will gladly run off an amp (I think the lowest I went is that, under an amp and they didn't go on for the full strip, uncut).. Haven't tested to see how much the brightness changes w/ a hefty-er power supply.. I relegated my 5 meters to porch duty, not tank duty...... tri-color 5050SMD w/ fun controller..great toy...


----------



## 1987

Anyone know where to get these power supplies for 15$ I can't find them for less than 45$ I'm looking at my 65 gallon with four lights on top of it and would love to get going on this project hehe


----------



## jeffkrol

1987 said:


> Anyone know where to get these power supplies for 15$ I can't find them for less than 45$ I'm looking at my 65 gallon with four lights on top of it and would love to get going on this project hehe



Which "these"??

fleabay has tons.. direct, cheap, and slow from China........


----------



## 1987

10 amp I'm new to led, but not electronics. Could you run the whole system off one power supply? I'm looking to do this over a 36" x 18" x 24 tank. I have like 5 plugs right now all over the tank I would like to get down to 1-2 if possible


----------



## Hoppy

Things which run at 12 VDC, with the current controlled by the device itself, like fans, etc. can all be put on one power supply as long as the total current is within the limit for that power supply. Normal LEDs don't control their own current, so they need a constant current power supply, and they can't be connected to standard 12 VDC power supplies along with other devices. But, the SMD tapes use ballast resistors, one for every 3 LEDs on my tape, which control the current to the LEDs, so they can be added to other devices, in parallel, on one 12 VDC power supply. Each 3 LEDs, in series, so their combined forward voltages are a bit less than 12 volts, have one ballast resistor, and the 5 meter tape connects 100 of those sets of three LEDs in parallel.


----------



## 1987

Hoppy said:


> Things which run at 12 VDC, with the current controlled by the device itself, like fans, etc. can all be put on one power supply as long as the total current is within the limit for that power supply. Normal LEDs don't control their own current, so they need a constant current power supply, and they can't be connected to standard 12 VDC power supplies along with other devices. But, the SMD tapes use ballast resistors, one for every 3 LEDs on my tape, which control the current to the LEDs, so they can be added to other devices, in parallel, on one 12 VDC power supply. Each 3 LEDs, in series, so their combined forward voltages are a bit less than 12 volts, have one ballast resistor, and the 5 meter tape connects 100 of those sets of three LEDs in parallel.


Gotcha! Ok that makes a lot more sense.


----------



## jeffkrol

1987 said:


> 10 amp I'm new to led, but not electronics. Could you run the whole system off one power supply? I'm looking to do this over a 36" x 18" x 24 tank. I have like 5 plugs right now all over the tank I would like to get down to 1-2 if possible



*New 12V DC 10A 120W Regulated Switching Power Supply for LED Strip Light*

New

More than 10 available 

Price:
US $17.95


----------



## jeffkrol

1987 said:


> Gotcha! Ok that makes a lot more sense.


http://led.linear1.org/led.wiz
for a visual just put in 
12
3.3
150
300...........









full power requires 15A 12v ps................probably a good way to melt the plastic........... 

10V ps works "better"........... w/ only 1W resistors...... 


> The wizard says: In solution 10V ............:
> 
> each 1 ohm resistor dissipates 22.5 mW
> the wizard thinks 1/4W resistors are fine for your application Help
> together, all resistors dissipate 2250 mW
> together, the diodes dissipate 148500 mW
> total power dissipated by the array is 150750 mW
> the array draws current of 15000 mA from the source.



hoppy have you measured the resistance of the dropping resistors?? just curious.....









http://szkingroll.en.alibaba.com/pr...2/cheap_5630_smd_led_rigid_strip_12v_24v.html


----------



## Hoppy

jeffkrol said:


> http://led.linear1.org/led.wiz
> 
> hoppy have you measured the resistance of the dropping resistors?? just curious.....


Yes, I just did: 47.3 ohms.


----------



## jeffkrol

Hoppy said:


> Yes, I just did: 47.3 ohms.


Makes sense... 
https://www.sparkfun.com/tutorials/219


> Continuous Forward Current	150mA	Forward Voltage	2.8V ~ 3.3V


----------



## Hoppy

The "shade/reflector/hood" is now stained and finished to match my stand.


----------



## Hoppy

jeffkrol said:


> Makes sense...


How does it make sense? It looks to me like the voltage to be dropped across the resistor is 2.1 to 3.6 volts, which divided by 47.3 ohms would say the current would be 44 to 76 mAmps. Does that mean the tapes are made so the LEDs are significantly under powered?


----------



## jeffkrol

Hoppy said:


> How does it make sense? It looks to me like the voltage to be dropped across the resistor is 2.1 to 3.6 volts, which divided by 47.3 ohms would say the current would be 44 to 76 mAmps. Does that mean the tapes are made so the LEDs are significantly under powered?


12-3/.15= 60ohms....











> i = LED forward current in Amps (found in the LED datasheet)
> Vf = LED forward voltage drop in Volts (found in the LED datasheet)
> Vs = supply voltage





> Continuous Forward Current 150mA Forward Voltage 2.8V ~ 3.3V


Correct???

47.3= 12-3.3/ x....................... x= .184

IF I understand this correctly they are over driven @184mA........each diode
https://www.sparkfun.com/tutorials/219

Then again I may be missing something.. I was assuming 1res 1 diode:


----------



## DarkCobra

jeffkrol said:


> IF I understand this correctly they are over driven @184mA........each diode


The math is right. Not sure what the actual spec of these SMD LEDs is, which should be derated since the strip is not an ideal heat sink, or even a heat conductor if attached to a proper heat sink. And it's common to find LEDs overdriven in cheap products. Not a good combo. Which is why I've been stressing never to drive them over 12V, and preferably even lower. That is, if you don't want to lose around half the light output in a year. After which you'll see the phosphor is visibly burned if you look close.


----------



## Hoppy

Another way to look at the current is: There are 300 LEDs in the 5 meters of tape, arranged in 3 LED groups, with those 3 in series with one ballast resistor at 47.3 ohms. The whole 5 meters of LEDs takes 6 amps when powered with 12 VDC. Therefore, each 3 LED circuit takes 6/100, or 60 mAmps of current. My calculation says the current is 44 to 76 mAmps, which is consistent with the 60 mAmps. If the LEDs are good for 150 mAmps, they are definitely not overdriven.

Some tapes have a resistor for each LED, some have 2 LEDs per resistor, so only 2 are in series. So, it just depends on what tape you have.


----------



## Hoppy

jeffkrol said:


> 12-3/.15= 60ohms....
> 
> 
> 
> 47.3= 12-3.3/ x....................... x= .184
> 
> IF I understand this correctly they are over driven @184mA........each diode
> 
> 
> Then again I may be missing something.. I was assuming 1res 1 diode:


When there are 3 LEDs in a series circuit, the same current flows through all 3. So, that equation would be 47.3 = [12 -(3.3 x 3)]/I : I = 2.1/47.3 = .044


----------



## jeffkrol

Hoppy said:


> When there are 3 LEDs in a series circuit, the same current flows through all 3. So, that equation would be 47.3 = [12 -(3.3 x 3)]/I : I = 2.1/47.3 = .044


That is why I added...


> Then again I may be missing something.. I was assuming 1res 1 diode:


Thanks for clarifying.. The strip I posted an image to was for 2 resistors.. as you state probably in series..i my defense, you never stated how many per group..... 

another type but 5050 I assume:
(edit: skip the 5050 ) 
A different one:
68 ohm reisitors.. from the code..









goes back to the orig design:









Yep strips are under driven..........
SMD resistor codes:
http://www.hobby-hour.com/electronics/smdcalc.php


----------



## Greystoke

A 47.3Ω series resistor in a 12.0V supply is specified by:
3 x V +47.3 x I = 12.0,
in which V and I are related by the regression formula:
V = 2E-11xI⁵ - 9E-09xI⁴ + 2E-06xI³ - 0.0002xI² + 0.0115xI + 2.5501 _(derived from Philips info)_






 
This computes to: I(typical) = 71 mA and V(typical) = 2.88V


----------



## jeffkrol

Greystoke said:


> A 47.3Ω series resistor in a 12.0V supply is specified by:
> 3 x V +47.3 x I = 12.0,
> in which V and I are related by the regression formula:
> V = 2E-11xI⁵ - 9E-09xI⁴ + 2E-06xI³ - 0.0002xI² + 0.0115xI + 2.5501 _(derived from Philips info)_
> This computes to: I(typical) = 71 mA and V(typical) = 2.88V



Ok , only difference is "theoretical" Vf vs metered???

Your numbers do correspond w/ this simple calculator....
http://www.quickar.com/noqbestledcalc.htm
(see LED's in series, use only single Vf.. not added Vf)

The fewer the "calculus" the happier I am......... 

any of the calculations seem to prove that the 5630 "strips" are capable of much more "output" than designed.. 
Yours shows only 1/2 of "theoretical" max power.. (well 1/2 max amp draw, not exactly equal)...

The resistor could safely be 33 Ohms (1/2W)....AFAIKT.....using 100mA...










http://szgmled.en.alibaba.com/product/1056169062-213446509/high_lumens_smd_5630_led_chip.html

15 Ohm resistor should do it..


----------



## Hoppy

Very interesting! Perhaps the ultimate DIY project would be to replace each of the 100 miniscule resistors to see how much light we can get from the 5 meter tape, before the thing bursts into flames! I look forward to reading that thread:icon_mrgr


----------



## DarkCobra

Hoppy said:


> Perhaps the ultimate DIY project would be to replace each of the 100 miniscule resistors to see how much light we can get from the 5 meter tape, before the thing bursts into flames! I look forward to reading that thread:icon_mrgr


LOL! Is it the flames or the soldering you'd enjoy? Because you can get the same effect, no soldering needed, by just increasing the voltage. It's supposedly not always guaranteed to work, but I've had luck stringing switching power supplies together in series to get odd voltages (as long as there is no AC ground lead, or it's disconnected).


----------



## Greystoke

The same thought occurred to me. Philips recommends running their 5630 LEDs @100mA
I wonder how much PT that would be. I'm no longer very good with soldering.

BTW: I changed the regression formula from a 5th order polynomial to a logarithmic approximation, ie: 0.2345*LN(4689*I). It's a bit more accurate, getting: I = 66mA and V = 2.96


----------



## jeffkrol

Hoppy said:


> Very interesting! Perhaps the ultimate DIY project would be to replace each of the 100 miniscule resistors to see how much light we can get from the 5 meter tape, before the thing bursts into flames! I look forward to reading that thread:icon_mrgr


Looks like you'd have to replace 1 resistor w/ something like 4= 100-ish Ohm in parallel.. 
SM resistors seem limited to 1/8W or less.. (could be wrong but probably the common cheap variety)

I think this is correct.. power dissipation adds.. Ohms drops by dividing 100 by 4 in parallel..

http://www.taydaelectronics.com/50-...-1-0805.html?gclid=CP-c-uGf0bwCFWxo7AodIQsAEg
only 1 cent each.......


----------



## Greystoke

DarkCobra said:


> . . . by just increasing the voltage. It's supposedly not always guaranteed to work, but I've had luck stringing switching power supplies together in series to get odd voltages . . .


This maybe of interest:
I tried that ones without much success. Someone then told me that these series resistors are often PTC resistors which go up in resistance with the temperature, so they work as current limiters.


----------



## DarkCobra

Greystoke said:


> I tried that ones without much success. Someone then told me that these series resistors are often PTC resistors which go up in resistance with the temperature, so they work as current limiters.


Yes, that is interesting. Clever trick.


----------



## aquariumhobbyist

I have been trying to get as much information on LED strips as possible but until now I had not seen someone who actually built a LED lighting system for an aquarium and backed its viability with data. People generally view it with skepticism. At least that was what I had found so far. Until I came to this forum (hello everyone btw!). 

Now since LED strips are so cheap, I want to have a go at it myself. I do however have yet to understand some of the more confusing aspects of electricity, such as what would be the best way to connect strips, in series or parallel? What does advantage does one hold over the other? Would a cool white LED strip be enough or would I need blue and red as well? If so how many (ratio-wise). Of course I understand some of these are dependent on the aquarium and the amount (value) of PAR.

Being a student on a budget, I want to light 3 aquariums I have;

1. A 33 Gallon aquarium (128 Liters): has about 10 guppies, 2 female bettas, 3 corydoras, 16 Tetra Neons, 3 Rasboras and 1 juvie BN pleco; growing Java Moss, Anubias (x10), Ludwigia Repens (10 stems), Elodea (also 10 stems) as plants. So far I had used 4 submersible florescent lamps (1 white, 1 blue, 2 pink) but each uses up a socket and I feel it increases the risk of a short circuit or other electrical hazards so I want to bring it down to 1. The plants were growing well (3 months +), perhaps because they are almost exclusively low light plants (?). 

2. A 10 Gallon Guppy tank; has 3 stalks of Anubias in it along with some java moss

3. A 20 Gallon Betta breeding tank; will have mainly surface floating plants (have not yet decided) that will help reduce nitrates in the water as other forms of filtration will not be present.

If I were to try and replicate the same project that you have, would I get enough light? Any help or advice would be appreciated.


----------



## jeffkrol

aquariumhobbyist said:


> I have been trying to get as much information on LED strips as possible but until now I had not seen someone who actually built a LED lighting system for an aquarium and backed its viability with data. People generally view it with skepticism. At least that was what I had found so far. Until I came to this forum (hello everyone btw!).
> 
> Now since LED strips are so cheap, I want to have a go at it myself. I do however have yet to understand some of the more confusing aspects of electricity, such as what would be the best way to connect strips, in series or parallel? What does advantage does one hold over the other? Would a cool white LED strip be enough or would I need blue and red as well? If so how many (ratio-wise). Of course I understand some of these are dependent on the aquarium and the amount (value) of PAR.
> 
> Being a student on a budget, I want to light 3 aquariums I have;
> 
> 1. A 33 Gallon aquarium (128 Liters): has about 10 guppies, 2 female bettas, 3 corydoras, 16 Tetra Neons, 3 Rasboras and 1 juvie BN pleco; growing Java Moss, Anubias (x10), Ludwigia Repens (10 stems), Elodea (also 10 stems) as plants. So far I had used 4 submersible florescent lamps (1 white, 1 blue, 2 pink) but each uses up a socket and I feel it increases the risk of a short circuit or other electrical hazards so I want to bring it down to 1. The plants were growing well (3 months +), perhaps because they are almost exclusively low light plants (?).
> 
> 2. A 10 Gallon Guppy tank; has 3 stalks of Anubias in it along with some java moss
> 
> 3. A 20 Gallon Betta breeding tank; will have mainly surface floating plants (have not yet decided) that will help reduce nitrates in the water as other forms of filtration will not be present.
> 
> If I were to try and replicate the same project that you have, would I get enough light? Any help or advice would be appreciated.


The flexable strips are designed to be cut-able every 3 "units".. There are edge connectors to join cut sections into pieces.. Basically always in series, but since the strips are really 3 units in series then joined in parallel..the question is mute..


----------



## Hoppy

The strips are 5 meters long, and are like a ladder, with each rung consisting of 3 LEDs and one or more current limiting resistors in series, and the legs of the ladder being the wires that connect those 3 LED circuits in parallel, so each of them gets 12 volts applied across them. The total current needed to drive the strip, 6 amps for the strip I purchased, is equal to the number of rungs times the current through each rung. You can connect as many strips together as you want, as long as you use a 12 VDC power supply with sufficient output current to supply the total current, *EXCEPT* that the wires in the strip add resistance into the circuit, dropping the voltage available to the LEDs farthest from the power supply. I found that connecting the power supply to both ends of the strip helped to reduce that voltage drop, but if you had more than two of those strips connected together some of the LEDs probably would not light up due to that voltage drop.

I soldered jumper wires to the ends of the pieces of the 5 meter strip to connect the pieces together. You can bend the strip to fit a curved backing, but you can't bend them in the plane of the strip, to reverse direction back and forth to cover an area. The soldering requires good eyes and a steady hand, but isn't difficult.

When connecting the pieces together, or connecting two 5 meter strips, you connect "+" to "+" and "-" to "-", because you are connecting them in parallel, to continue the "ladder".


----------



## Hoppy

This is my final calibration of the light, using the wood hood/shade/reflector. It meets all of my requirements.


----------



## Greystoke

Do you have that in a tabled format? I would appreciate a copy. :icon_wink


----------



## aquariumhobbyist

Hoppy said:


> The strips are 5 meters long, and are like a ladder, with each rung consisting of 3 LEDs and one or more current limiting resistors in series, and the legs of the ladder being the wires that connect those 3 LED circuits in parallel, so each of them gets 12 volts applied across them. The total current needed to drive the strip, 6 amps for the strip I purchased, is equal to the number of rungs times the current through each rung. You can connect as many strips together as you want, as long as you use a 12 VDC power supply with sufficient output current to supply the total current, *EXCEPT* that the wires in the strip add resistance into the circuit, dropping the voltage available to the LEDs farthest from the power supply. I found that connecting the power supply to both ends of the strip helped to reduce that voltage drop, but if you had more than two of those strips connected together some of the LEDs probably would not light up due to that voltage drop.
> 
> I soldered jumper wires to the ends of the pieces of the 5 meter strip to connect the pieces together. You can bend the strip to fit a curved backing, but you can't bend them in the plane of the strip, to reverse direction back and forth to cover an area. The soldering requires good eyes and a steady hand, but isn't difficult.
> 
> When connecting the pieces together, or connecting two 5 meter strips, you connect "+" to "+" and "-" to "-", because you are connecting them in parallel, to continue the "ladder".


Ok, I am not very good at electricity so bear with me.

So, you 3 strips each of a single color (white for example) and then connected these 3 together, or you connected all strips to one another? Perhaps a diagram and a close up picture of your connections would be helpful. I apologize for not being able to comprehend what you wrote here; you obviously know your stuff but unfortunately I don't and I am worried I might end up burning the house...


----------



## jeffkrol

aquariumhobbyist said:


> Ok, I am not very good at electricity so bear with me.
> 
> So, you 3 strips each of a single color (white for example) and then connected these 3 together, or you connected all strips to one another? Perhaps a diagram and a close up picture of your connections would be helpful. I apologize for not being able to comprehend what you wrote here; you obviously know your stuff but unfortunately I don't and I am worried I might end up burning the house...




Well it depends on th type of ribbon.. Easist is to use connectors.. Cut strip at the marked area corresponding to the closest length you need. 
There are contact pads there..
Clamp one end on each side of the cut.. You now can go 180 w/ the second strip..










watch the video
http://youtu.be/VXVzkjCkAy4


----------



## Hoppy

If you don't use the connectors jeffkrol mentioned, you can just solder wires onto the tiny solder pads. Here is a simplified sketch of how to wire them. It shows power being applied at both ends of the string of LEDs, to minimize the electrical resistance loss from the tiny wires connecting the LEDs in the strip.


----------



## Hoppy

Greystoke said:


> Do you have that in a tabled format? I would appreciate a copy. :icon_wink


The PAR readings were made with a Apogee Quantum meter. The distances are from the LEDs to the PAR meter, accurate to about +/-.25 inches.


----------



## Greystoke

Thank you Hoppy.


----------



## aquariumhobbyist

Hoppy said:


> If you don't use the connectors jeffkrol mentioned, you can just solder wires onto the tiny solder pads. Here is a simplified sketch of how to wire them. It shows power being applied at both ends of the string of LEDs, to minimize the electrical resistance loss from the tiny wires connecting the LEDs in the strip.



Thanks for the picture. I am note sure how I can use the other connector jeffkrol mentioned. Soldering, however, I can understand. I guess I can do this for any length of strip, not just one with 3 LEDS on it?

Also, I realized that 5630 is not available in any local dealers and the ones online sell for about $10 per meter (I kid you not). I remember reading in one of your posts that you tried 5050 SMD LEDs already and they did not match up to expectations? Was it a similar set-up (5050 for white and 3528's for red and blue)? Would using a 5050 white, 5050 warm white, 5050 blue and 5050 red combo make a difference, i.e. would I have enough light usable by plants for growth in your opinion?


----------



## brohawk

Hoppy, when do you plan on installing this over a tank? Would be nice to see what effect your current color mix of strips ends up having.


----------



## Hoppy

I'm still working slowly on the bent conduit supports for the light. Once they are done, I will find a day when I can drain most of the water out of my tank, so I can scoot it away from the wall to install the new light. At that time I also plan to remove the Hamburger Mattenfilter and install a wet-dry filter - Marineland Emperor 400 on the end of the tank. And, do a mowing of my dwarf sagittarius lawn, to eliminate some BBA. And, of course, do a good cleaning of the tank. All-in-all a full day of work, so it may be awhile before that happens.

Once I get it installed I will take a few photos and post them.


----------



## Hoppy

I have the conduit supports almost done now. I bent them myself, using a bender I bought used on Ebay, which I will probably resell on Ebay now that I am done with it.










The top ends of the supports have a eyebolt, to attach the support cables to, and rubber grommeted holes for the electric cables to go through on their way down to the 12VDC power under the tank.









I remember reading on another thread, a couple of years ago, about a way to use a standard part to neatly plug the open ends of the conduits. I can't find that again. Does anyone know what standard part that is? I did buy 1/2" conduit plugs, but they fit the holes in a junction box, which are much larger than the ID of the 1/2" conduit.


----------



## chopperwalker

I can't say for certain, but I usually have luck with this in the drawers at an Ace Hardware or equivalent. I know the have round and square plastic caps/plugs, but you might have to see what fits. Conveniently, they have conduit to test it on, too.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk


----------



## thelub

How much are you looking to get for the bender? I need one and can probably take it off your hands. PM me if its something you'd want to do.


----------



## Hoppy

chopperwalker said:


> I can't say for certain, but I usually have luck with this in the drawers at an Ace Hardware or equivalent. I know the have round and square plastic caps/plugs, but you might have to see what fits. Conveniently, they have conduit to test it on, too.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk


I found a listing for some of the plugs on Ebay, and apparently they are called conduit plugs. I think I will take it to my Ace Hardware and let them tell me where they are stashed. The Ace Hardware here is extremely well stocked, so they almost certainly will have them. I have been to other hardware stores here where the salesperson has told me to go to Emigh Hardware, an Ace Hardware, because "they have everything"!!


----------



## Aquaticus

Hoppy, instead of suppling power at the ends, couldn't you solder your leads into the middle of each strip? It may simplify the wiring a little.


----------



## Hoppy

Aquaticus said:


> Hoppy, instead of suppling power at the ends, couldn't you solder your leads into the middle of each strip? It may simplify the wiring a little.


You could solder the leads at the middle of the strip, but the strips have wires already soldered on at the beginning of the strip, so it seems "natural" to start with that. You do have to attach wires at the ends of each strip to turn the corner and start the strip going back across the surface you are attaching them to, so soldering leads at the end of the row of LEDs is a minor additional job.

If I make another one of these I will explore the idea of just soldering leads to the middle of each strip, to see if that is less work, etc. With some care I can see that eliminating the "turn the corner" wires at the ends of each strip. And, the power supply wires do tend to stress the attachment of the strips to the heatsink, so eliminating them might greatly reduce the struggle to keep them attached.

The more I think of this, the better the idea looks :biggrin:


----------



## Hoppy

The conduit support poles are now done, except for waiting for the paint to fully dry. I got the plugs for the ends of the conduit at an Ace Hardware as chopperwalker suggested. They are called "hole plugs" and the 5/8" plugs fit perfectly in 1/2" conduit.

Now, I can wait for a day when I can work on the tank all day, and install the light, plus do the other changes I want to do.


----------



## Hoppy

The light is installed! I did a big pruning - shearing off most of the Sagittaria subulata down almost to the substrate, to get rid of BBA as much as I could, removed the Mattenfilter, added the wet/dry HOB filter, and did a thorough glass cleaning. Now, my heater isn't working so I still have to replace it, and do more to get rid of the BBA, but the light works great, and lights the tank very well.


----------



## brohawk

Looks good, Hoppy. Is the color output in the pic close to what you see in person? And are you happy w/ the color?


----------



## Aquaticus

I think it looks good, too, but I had the same question as brohawk, because it looks really blue from the pic.


----------



## Hoppy

It is definitely cool white, so it does have a strong blue component. I like the color, my wife likes the color, but I can't deny that it looks a bit blue. The red and green LEDs add to the spectrum, and may help in emphasizing the reds in the fish and the greens in the plants. Sometimes I think the blue tint is slightly on the magenta side, from the red LEDs, but that is probably my imagination.

I used to use GE8725K bulbs, which give a very magenta tinted white, and I liked that too, even though it made taking photos of the tank very difficult. I find that my eyes quickly adjust the lighting, as I interpret it, so that the tinted white just looks white to me.


----------



## limz_777

Are you using Samsung 5630 smd leds?


----------



## Hoppy

limz_777 said:


> Are you using Samsung 5630 smd leds?


No, I'm using generic Ebay 5630 LED tapes, which may, for all I know, be made by Samsung. I used a US vendor for the tapes, to reduce the shipping time.


----------



## jeffkrol

Hoppy said:


> It is definitely cool white, so it does have a strong blue component. . Sometimes I think the blue tint is slightly on the magenta side, from the red LEDs, but that is probably my imagination.



Eyes are very sensative to red.. Won't go into the problems w/ digital cameras and red..  What crosses my mind in cases like this is yellow hi-lighter.. 









http://www.physicsclassroom.com/class/light/u12l2b.cfm



Hoppy said:


> I used to use GE8725K bulbs, which give a very magenta tinted white,


I was curious about this bulb.. Couldn't find it. 
FYI:
http://www.gelighting.com/LightingW...oducts_Spectrum_Catalogue_EN_tcm181-12550.pdf

Was a fun read..

Re: The physics article.. funny thing, I used to tell people that there is no such thing as" color" in an object.. same difference...


> In a technical sense, it is really not appropriate to refer to light as being colored. Light is simply a wave with a specific wavelength or a mixture of wavelengths; it has no color in and of itself. An object that is emitting or reflecting light to our eye appears to have a specific color as the result of the eye-brain response to the wavelength.


----------



## Rooster

eyes are very INSENSITIVE to red.... That's why red traffic light lamps are WAAAY brighter than green and amber! 

Sent using Tapatalk from my ZX81


----------



## jeffkrol

Rooster said:


> eyes are very INSENSITIVE to red.... That's why red traffic light lamps are WAAAY brighter than green and amber!
> 
> Sent using Tapatalk from my ZX81



Seems not to be so w/ high light.. 



> There are shifts in color sensitivity with variations in light levels, so that blue colors look relatively brighter in dim light and red colors look brighter in bright light. This effect can be observed by pointing a flashlight onto a color print, which will result in the reds suddenly appearing much brighter and more saturated.


but yes green chartreuse is the most visible color to humans...

http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/primer/lightandcolor/humanvisionintro.html
http://www.ecse.rpi.edu/~schubert/Light-Emitting-Diodes-dot-org/Sample-Chapter.pdf


----------



## Down_Shift

GitMoe said:


> Progress... I'm still super excited to see how this works out. I can almost guarantee that tape will stick...
> 
> Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk



Another car guy here. 

3m body molding tape will work. 
If you want to spend a extra few bucks get the industrial/extra strength too. Seeing how I use it to hold whole spoilers and other random things on cars/around the house. A small led won't be an issue.

The trick is to get everything warm enough before applying it. Then give it a few seconds of pressure before letting it cure to room temp. Sucker ant goin no where!


----------



## Hoppy

Progress report: After 10 days over the aquarium I am delighted with the performance of this LED light. I have some lemon tetras in the tank, which have looked drab since I got them over a year ago. Now their yellow color, which has a slight green tinge, just pops out, and the red above their eyes is very bright. They are the beautiful colorful fish I thought they would be. My Odessa Barbs look great too, but they did before I used this light. I think their red color is more vivid now, but it could be my imagination.

The plants are growing at least as well as they did with the old LED light I was using, and no algae problem has shown up - just the usual very slight green dust on the glass.

I measured the PAR in the water filled tank today - 45 PAR, considerably more than my open air testing indicated it would be. This is probably due to the focusing effect of the air to water interface. This means I need to raise the light another 4 inches to get the 35 PAR I want - that's not easy, but it can be done.


----------



## brohawk

Glad to hear Hoppy. Are you getting any shimmer effect w/ these?


----------



## Hoppy

brohawk said:


> Glad to hear Hoppy. Are you getting any shimmer effect w/ these?


No shimmer effect at all, because of the huge number of individual LEDs. But, I didn't want the shimmer either. I found it was unpleasant to look at when I had it with my first LED light.


----------



## aquariumhobbyist

Hoppy, I have been wondering how adding a "warm white" strip along with the "cool white" would fare? This is my planned project:

6 rows of cool white 5630 LED
3 rows of warm white 5630 LED
3 rows of red 5630 LED
3 rows of blue 5630 LED
3 rows of green 5630 LED (not sure about this one)


----------



## Hoppy

aquariumhobbyist said:


> Hoppy, I have been wondering how adding a "warm white" strip along with the "cool white" would fare? This is my planned project:
> 
> 6 rows of cool white 5630 LED
> 3 rows of warm white 5630 LED
> 3 rows of red 5630 LED
> 3 rows of blue 5630 LED
> 3 rows of green 5630 LED (not sure about this one)


You would have 9 rows of whites, compared to the 8 rows I have, so you should get about 10% more PAR than I'm getting. The warm white might be a good addition, but I really like the all cool white that I have. With that, additional blue would probably be too much blue. The red and green I added do pep up the fish colors considerably. I used 1/4 power red and green, compared to my white, so you might have too much with 5630 red and green. I think the goal is to get some red and yellow/green light to be reflected from the fish, but without noticeably affecting the over all light color.


----------



## aquariumhobbyist

Hoppy said:


> You would have 9 rows of whites, compared to the 8 rows I have, so you should get about 10% more PAR than I'm getting. The warm white might be a good addition, but I really like the all cool white that I have. With that, additional blue would probably be too much blue. The red and green I added do pep up the fish colors considerably. I used 1/4 power red and green, compared to my white, so you might have too much with 5630 red and green. I think the goal is to get some red and yellow/green light to be reflected from the fish, but without noticeably affecting the over all light color.


Well tbh I had intended to use the red and blue not for visual effects but for the plants. Of course plants have a specific wavelength that they use for photosynthesis but I was assuming that this red would be within that range. The same for the blue ones (hence why I wanted to use a 5630 LED for these as well).


----------



## jeffkrol

aquariumhobbyist said:


> but I was assuming that this red would be within that range. The same for the blue ones (hence why I wanted to use a 5630 LED for these as well).


Err arguable........... The red and blue are on the edges of what is considered "best" wavelengths.. 
Plenty of good threads around here on it........


----------



## Deano85

I'd go with only cool white and red. Experiment with the number of red's to see what looks best to you.


----------



## Hoppy

Deano85 said:


> I'd go with only cool white and red. Experiment with the number of red's to see what looks best to you.


I was pleasantly surprised by how a few green LEDs bring out the yellow color on fish. I can't see any effect on how the plants look, but the fish are beautiful.

If I have nothing else important to do tomorrow I may try photographing the fish with and without the red and green LEDs turned on, just to be sure the effect isn't all in my imagination.


----------



## walzon1

Just throwing this out there but after lookin at all the smd led strips 3014 5630 5730 and 2835 I am thinking of trying this with the 2835 those along with the 5730 are the newest smd tech. only difference would be that 2835 are only .2 watts vs. .5 of the 5630 the trade is you get 600/5m led vs. 300/5m and also 2835 puts out a little more lumens per meter

I know you mentioned earlier as well finnex using the 3014 leds which are almost exactly the same output as 2835 just in a smaller .1w package. What do you think?


----------



## Hoppy

I took a couple of photos of the tank, at one end, both with and without the red and green LED strips powered. As you can see, if there is an effect of the red and green, it is a very small one. So, the color rendition from just the cool white LEDs is very good, in my opinion, and the red and green ones are not of any significant benefit. If I had used 5630 LEDs instead of the 1/4 power ones, there might have been a benefit.


----------



## Hoppy

walzon1 said:


> Just throwing this out there but after lookin at all the smd led strips 3014 5630 5730 and 2835 I am thinking of trying this with the 2835 those along with the 5730 are the newest smd tech. only difference would be that 2835 are only .2 watts vs. .5 of the 5630 the trade is you get 600/5m led vs. 300/5m and also 2835 puts out a little more lumens per meter
> 
> I know you mentioned earlier as well finnex using the 3014 leds which are almost exactly the same output as 2835 just in a smaller .1w package. What do you think?


One thing I have learned is that you really have to try the various LEDs to be at all sure how much light you will get. I suspect you are right, but only by actually measuring the light from an installation can you be sure.


----------



## aquariumhobbyist

jeffkrol said:


> Err arguable........... The red and blue are on the edges of what is considered "best" wavelengths..
> Plenty of good threads around here on it........


I see... No point then? Would I be better off using warm whites instead of reds and cool whites instead of blues? 

so my set up would be:

9 rows of cool white 5630 LED
6 rows of warm white 5630 LED

and instead of 3 greens, I would get 2 rows of cool and 1 row of warm white extra making 10 rows of cool white and 7 rows of warm white. 

How would this fare (in terms of supporting plant growth) compared to say a 3:1 ratio of cool to warm light (16 rows of cool and 4 rows of warm white for example), or to keep the number of led rows the same a 10 cool and 5 warm white led strips?


----------



## jeffkrol

aquariumhobbyist said:


> I see... No point then? Would I be better off using warm whites instead of reds and cool whites instead of blues?
> 
> so my set up would be:
> 
> 9 rows of cool white 5630 LED
> 6 rows of warm white 5630 LED
> 
> and instead of 3 greens, I would get 2 rows of cool and 1 row of warm white extra making 10 rows of cool white and 7 rows of warm white.
> 
> How would this fare (in terms of supporting plant growth) compared to say a 3:1 ratio of cool to warm light (16 rows of cool and 4 rows of warm white for example), or to keep the number of led rows the same a 10 cool and 5 warm white led strips?


Personally, IF I was using strips I'd contemplate using some of these.. 
As to w/c ratio, it gets down more to personal color choice. My own opinion (based on a lot of assumptions) and circumstantial evidence is warm white LED's are more "active" than say 6500k's but that doesn't mean those are bad.. 

Be the first on your block to use these:
310878937838

Fleabay number..
1 Meter $14.99.. not exactly cheap though.. and only 5050's

There spectrum is a bit odd though:


----------



## vvDO

Hoppy said:


> I took a couple of photos of the tank, at one end, both with and without the red and green LED strips powered. As you can see, if there is an effect of the red and green, it is a very small one. So, the color rendition from just the cool white LEDs is very good, in my opinion, and the red and green ones are not of any significant benefit. If I had used 5630 LEDs instead of the 1/4 power ones, there might have been a benefit.


It would be difficult to capture any difference on a digital camera. Did you use a manual mode with a set color temperature? You would also need to turn off any internal image processing.


----------



## Hoppy

vvDO said:


> It would be difficult to capture any difference on a digital camera. Did you use a manual mode with a set color temperature? You would also need to turn off any internal image processing.


No, instead I used my eyes to judge the difference before I took the photos. I couldn't see the slightest difference. And, my only reason for using the red and green LEDs was for the visual effect. I really don't understand why this all cool-white LED light gives so much better colors in the fish than my 50-50 cool-warm white LED light did. But, it does, and the effect isn't at all subtle.


----------



## walzon1

I read somewhere while researching these lights for aquariums that they are very dependant on how they are manufactured which is one of the disadvantages of buying them. You really don't know what your getting until you fire them up. Even from the same manufacturer there may be differences in light output and color don't really know how true this is but it's a possibility


----------



## jeffkrol

walzon1 said:


> I read somewhere while researching these lights for aquariums that they are very dependant on how they are manufactured which is one of the disadvantages of buying them. You really don't know what your getting until you fire them up. Even from the same manufacturer there may be differences in light output and color don't really know how true this is but it's a possibility


That is correct.. That is why manufactures "bin" their LED's and even those are a range.. 
As to the "cheapies" they generally are just ungraded.. From my limited experience it is more different batch vendor related than "lot" purchase.. But that lot though fairly consistent will vary from spec.. if you get my drift..

If you buy warm white LED's you most likely will receive anything from 3500k-3000k for example..


> Even with all of the R&D efforts underway and the billions
> of dollars spent within the semiconductor industry to minimize this production variation, the end result
> is a process that is not capable of producing highly consistent and tightly controlled production of LEDs. So,
> in an effort to maximize yields (and with a knowledge that the lighting industry has a wide range of needs),
> LED manufacturers sort their production into lumen, color and sometimes voltage bins. This allows luminaire
> manufacturers to select only those LEDs that meet their acceptable performance ranges while maximizing the
> overall usage of each of the bin ranges for the LED supplier.


http://lithonia.acuitybrands.com/Files/RTLED_Files/RTLED_WPaper_BinningandLED.pdf

Of course this is the same for florescent as well......but since you have a variation in usually a few (compared to dozens of LED's) who would notice..


> This standard specifies a bin size that approximately correlates
> with the degree of color variation we experience today with commercial CFL sources. This allows for
> some degree of perceivable variation in color temperature among white light sources.


http://www.lighting.philips.com/pwc...versity/internet-courses/LEDs/led-lamps6.html
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...X6Rs9YQ_AyfRtTQ&bvm=bv.62922401,d.b2I&cad=rja


----------



## jeffkrol

Hoppy said:


> No, instead I used my eyes to judge the difference before I took the photos. I couldn't see the slightest difference. And, my only reason for using the red and green LEDs was for the visual effect. I really don't understand why this all cool-white LED light gives so much better colors in the fish than my 50-50 cool-warm white LED light did. But, it does, and the effect isn't at all subtle.


Odd isn't it................. I think fish pigments and scales just like blue light.. 











Of course it may have to do more w/ physics than pigments.. w /shorter wavelength blue creating more refraction.. just spit balling here.. My neon tetra and sunset platys were quite "red" under 10000k + actinic blue light..
Orange platy below though 
http://jcs.biologists.org/content/88/5/663.full.pdf


----------



## matt79

I've recently purchased some 5630 LED strips from ledlightinghut. I've got them on top of a 6x2x2, doubt they will grow anything however it's enough to light at least the front and middle of the tank depending on where you put it. I used all 5 meters and 100 watts in total.


----------



## Hoppy

matt79 said:


> I've recently purchased some 5630 LED strips from ledlightinghut. I've got them on top of a 6x2x2, doubt they will grow anything however it's enough to light at least the front and middle of the tank depending on where you put it. I used all 5 meters and 100 watts in total.


That isn't nearly enough light. The minimum light intensity needed for growing aquatic plants requires about 6 adjacent strips of that tape, which would be about 2 of the 5 meter tapes. This is with the light sitting right on top of the tank.


----------



## thelub

I just picked up a Fluval LED light housing that I'm going to try to use for these SMD strips. My LFS yanked out the existing strips and put them into other fixtures. I figured it would be a nice foundation to work with. It already has switches build into the housing as well as blue moon lights (which are pretty pathetic but they're there). 

I'm pretty sure the original lights are 5630 strips or something similar. I noticed they put the strips in glass tubes to protect them from water. Do you think it would be beneficial to do this with my home made version? Or would it inhibit the light power?


----------



## Hoppy

thelub said:


> I just picked up a Fluval LED light housing that I'm going to try to use for these SMD strips. My LFS yanked out the existing strips and put them into other fixtures. I figured it would be a nice foundation to work with. It already has switches build into the housing as well as blue moon lights (which are pretty pathetic but they're there).
> 
> I'm pretty sure the original lights are 5630 strips or something similar. I noticed they put the strips in glass tubes to protect them from water. Do you think it would be beneficial to do this with my home made version? Or would it inhibit the light power?


I would just use the waterproof version of the strips, which only cost a little more. I definitely wouldn't put them in glass tubes, because of potential heat build-up problems.


----------



## JasterMake

I wish I had read this before spending 2+ hours looking through auctions trying to figure out which strip to buy. It seems I chose wisely(5639). However I did see 7020 strips which get even brighter.. But the price is quite steep at the moment. 

Thank you Hoppy. You made the next 2-3 weeks a little easier for me to handle knowing that this should give me enough light..


----------



## vanish

This is a neat idea. I've done a lot of research on the GU-10 builds and they start off cheap, but by the end the $$ seems like I might as well be buying a ready made light. This build seems pretty cost effective, especially if you've got the power supply(ies). Hoppy, what are your thoughts in the regard?


----------



## Hoppy

vanish said:


> This is a neat idea. I've done a lot of research on the GU-10 builds and they start off cheap, but by the end the $$ seems like I might as well be buying a ready made light. This build seems pretty cost effective, especially if you've got the power supply(ies). Hoppy, what are your thoughts in the regard?


I built my light this way primarily because it is a cheap way to get a good LED light, with so many LEDs that the light is pretty uniform. My light continues to work very well. After I finished this project I found that I already had a couple of very usable 12 VDC adapters I could have used, to cut the price even more. My "junk" isn't at all well organized so I often buy something I already have.


----------



## jeffkrol

Hoppy;5888898My "junk" isn't at all well organized so I often buy something I already have.[/QUOTE said:


> You too.. Sometimes, in terms of time, it is more "cost efficient"... LOL.
> Of course I overpay myself..


----------



## jeffkrol

vanish said:


> This is a neat idea. I've done a lot of research on the GU-10 builds and they start off cheap, but by the end the $$ seems like I might as well be buying a ready made light. This build seems pretty cost effective, especially if you've got the power supply(ies). Hoppy, what are your thoughts in the regard?


Personal opinion you break even (or modestly cheaper ) but w/ exactly what you want..AND you know how to change it..

Cheaper than buying x brand then deciding you like the color or features of y brand better.. ect


The bigger expense is in the "research".. like I now have probably (and I'm surely not alone) have a $150 in "drivers" I'm no longer using.. Of course they have some resale value and "may" be used in the future.. but certainly no guarantees of that..

For the first person, it is never cheap..


----------



## liam2317

Hoppy, great build! It's really neat to see that cheap ebay LEDs are useable. 

By any chance have you re-run your PAR tests recently to see if the LEDs are dropping in intensity? If so, how many hours and at what brightness do you think they have been running them at? Thanks!


----------



## Hoppy

liam2317 said:


> Hoppy, great build! It's really neat to see that cheap ebay LEDs are useable.
> 
> By any chance have you re-run your PAR tests recently to see if the LEDs are dropping in intensity? If so, how many hours and at what brightness do you think they have been running them at? Thanks!


I haven't done any follow-up PAR tests, and the tank is torn down now, in preparation for a move to an apartment. I ran them at "full power" - whatever the 12 volts they are designed for makes them operate at. I ran them 8 hours a day.


----------



## KnH

Hoppy, on a 36 inch Length tank with the substrate at 30" from the light.
How many rows would you recommend to get a 35 parr?
Do you still suggest using the 5630 tapes.
what color of white or mix , cool - warm - natural?

Thanks


----------



## gus6464

KnH said:


> Hoppy, on a 36 inch Length tank with the substrate at 30" from the light.
> How many rows would you recommend to get a 35 parr?
> Do you still suggest using the 5630 tapes.
> what color of white or mix , cool - warm - natural?
> 
> Thanks


This combination produces a 5000K look with a very nice spectrum:

4x 6500K
1x 2700K
1x Red


----------



## Hoppy

KnH said:


> Hoppy, on a 36 inch Length tank with the substrate at 30" from the light.
> How many rows would you recommend to get a 35 parr?
> Do you still suggest using the 5630 tapes.
> what color of white or mix , cool - warm - natural?
> 
> Thanks


Yes, I'm using 5630 SMD tapes. They are the cool white ones. My light produces 35 PAR at 30 inches and is used on a 36 inch long tank, a standard 65 gallon tank. See: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showpost.php?p=5349298&postcount=141


----------



## KnH

Hoppy said:


> Yes, I'm using 5630 SMD tapes. They are the cool white ones. My light produces 35 PAR at 30 inches and is used on a 36 inch long tank, a standard 65 gallon tank. See: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showpost.php?p=5349298&postcount=141


How many rows are you using ?
On your first post , 8 of the cool white plus 2 green and red, 
would the 8 cool white be enough by them selfs or would I need the green and reds or just add 4 more white to replace the red& greens?

Thanks


----------



## Rooster

Just fitted my 4 footer with cool white, 9x1m strips... one set is quite blue, and the fish are now very bland looking, so will be adding red, maybe green... But the plants seem to like it so far ;-) 

Sent using Tapatalk from my ZX81


----------



## Hoppy

I have 10 rows of cool white, and 2 rows each of red and blue. The red and blue are lower wattage LEDs, and I found they added nothing to the light - no added PAR and no effect on the color. I continue to use them for the same reason people climb a mountain - they are there. Before duplicating this for your set-up be sure to read the whole thread. I get a lot more PAR with the reflector lined shade than without, so that shade is a critical part.


----------



## Rooster

Hoppy.. don't the red and blue change colours on the fish? 
I have a paradise fish, that used to have iridescencent red+blue dots under fluorescent lighting, now it's almost grey! :-( 
... as are my glow light tetras. 
Sent using Tapatalk from my ZX81


----------



## jeffkrol

Rooster said:


> Hoppy.. don't the red and blue change colours on the fish?
> I have a paradise fish, that used to have iridescencent red+blue dots under fluorescent lighting, now it's almost grey! :-(
> ... as are my glow light tetras.
> Sent using Tapatalk from my ZX81


not certain why he had no noteable change in the color.. and not sure what LED you have.. but "colored" LED additions (well sometimes just different whites) have a noticeable change on fish color.

ONE thing, unlike fluorescents LED's have little purple/UV.. which could make a difference in some fish.


----------



## KnH

Hoppy said:


> I have 10 rows of cool white, and 2 rows each of red and blue. The red and blue are lower wattage LEDs, and I found they added nothing to the light - no added PAR and no effect on the color. I continue to use them for the same reason people climb a mountain - they are there. Before duplicating this for your set-up be sure to read the whole thread. I get a lot more PAR with the reflector lined shade than without, so that shade is a critical part.


The heatsinks (2)I have know are a little over 2" wide, so i can get 5 rows on each one , I ordered enough SMD for 4 rows Cool white and One rows warm white. I will have Ten rows total, Know I just have to wait on a slow boat.
Power supplies are on there way also.

Im starting to look around for an easy way to dim them [email protected] 20amps.

Thanks for doing this project and helping out.


----------



## gus6464

KnH said:


> The heatsinks (2)I have know are a little over 2" wide, so i can get 5 rows on each one , I ordered enough SMD for 4 rows Cool white and One rows warm white. I will have Ten rows total, Know I just have to wait on a slow boat.
> Power supplies are on there way also.
> 
> Im starting to look around for an easy way to dim them [email protected] 20amps.
> 
> Thanks for doing this project and helping out.


How many 12v power supplies are you running? If you are running multiples I assume you won't be pushing all 20A through one so just get one of these per power supply.
Factop Manual Dimmer Adjustable Brightness DC 12V-24V 8A For Single Color Led Strip - Wall Dimmer Switches - Amazon.com

If you need more powerful ones you can get them from the bay. They have 20A dimmers there for cheap.


----------



## KnH

I'm actually scaling up a bit
Voltage: DC 12V,Wattage: 15W/M , 75W/Roll 5 meter

Going to have 10 strips 60" long, 2 heat sinks 2" x 60", 

5 strips each 4 cool white & 1 warm white

I have on hand. 2- 12 Volt Power Supply - 10 Amp

60" x 5 = 300" / 39"(meter) =7.62 meters
7.62 meters x 15 watts per meter = 115 watts

From this http://www.supercirc...-amps-converter

12v, 115 watts = 9.584 amps 

I guess I could run, 3. Power supply / dimmers. The dimmers max 8 amps each
1- 4 cool white strip, 7.67 amps
2- 4 cool white strip
3- 2, warm white


----------



## jeffkrol

KnH said:


> I'm actually scaling up a bit
> Voltage: DC 12V,Wattage: 15W/M , 75W/Roll 5 meter
> 
> Going to have 10 strips 60" long, 2 heat sinks 2" x 60",
> 
> 5 strips each 4 cool white & 1 warm white
> 
> I have on hand. 2- 12 Volt Power Supply - 10 Amp
> 
> 60" x 5 = 300" / 39"(meter) =7.62 meters
> 7.62 meters x 15 watts per meter = 115 watts
> 
> From this http://www.supercirc...-amps-converter
> 
> 12v, 115 watts = 9.584 amps
> 
> I guess I could run, 3. Power supply / dimmers. The dimmers max 8 amps each
> 1- 4 cool white strip, 7.67 amps
> 2- 4 cool white strip
> 3- 2, warm white















> 1. Programmable led timer/Dimmer controller
> 
> 2. Operating temperature: -20 to 60 degrees
> 
> 3. Supply voltage: DC12-24V
> 
> 4. Output: 5 channels
> 
> 5. Output: Five CMOS drain-open output
> 
> 6. Control variant: common anode
> 
> 7. Max load current: 4Amps each Channel


You can run 2 2A "strips" (really one strip eletrically) per channel giving you the needed 10

you can double that w/ out increasing amp draw by going w/ 24V and paralleling 2 "strips".. though that poses problems of its own..

another example:


> .Working temperature: -20-60°C
> 
> 2.Supply voltage: DC12V
> 3.Static power consumption: < 0.5W
> 4.Net weight: 200g
> 5.Gross weight: 300g
> 6.External dimension: 120MM*69MM*24MM
> 7.Packing size: 169MM*135MM*53MM
> 8.Output: 5 channel*
> 9.Maximum output current: 20A*


http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/New-led-dimmer-controller-timer-programmable_902052432.html


----------



## melmel

Hey if anyone could help
I want to do either 3 or 4 18in 5630 strips at about 15-17in off substrate in a 60p. I've done some research and it seems someone did this with 5050 smd in a 45p and got 50-70 par which is way more than the calculations in this discussion where Hoppy is using 8 strips.
Here is the link just translate it, it is a user on this forum;
http://prirodni-akvarium.cz/index.php?id=mereni

Anyway what do you guys think I should use for med-high light / 50-70 par in a ADA 60p 3 or 4 strips?

Thanks 

Btw I plan on retro fitting the archaea 36w pc fixture with the strips


----------



## gus6464

melmel said:


> Hey if anyone could help
> I want to do either 3 or 4 18in 5630 strips at about 15-17in off substrate in a 60p. I've done some research and it seems someone did this with 5050 smd in a 45p and got 50-70 par which is way more than the calculations in this discussion where Hoppy is using 8 strips.
> Here is the link just translate it, it is a user on this forum;
> http://prirodni-akvarium.cz/index.php?id=mereni
> 
> Anyway what do you guys think I should use for med-high light / 50-70 par in a ADA 60p 3 or 4 strips?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Btw I plan on retro fitting the archaea 36w pc fixture with the strips


From the looks of it he has tiny strips on the side that seem to reflect the light to keep a more contrated beam which is probably why he has an increase in PAR. Also Hoppy's penetration distance was longer so it's not an apples to apples test.

Just copy the aquasky layout with 5630.


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## melmel

Aquasky is 3 rows right?


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## gus6464

melmel said:


> Aquasky is 3 rows right?


Yep.


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## biznitch

Can anyone help me with some strip lighting suggestions for a shallow tank. It's dimensions are 9' x 9' x 29'. Ultimately I was planning on the light sitting on the top of the tank in a custom hood/light fitting to minimise glare.
I already have some cool white 5630 strips and some 5050 warm white. Was thinking of buying some more 5630 RGB strips to add color effects.(the individual color strips not the combined ones)
The substrate I am planning would be approximately an inch deep up to 2 inches deep and the light strips will be recessed in the hood an inch to two inches.(haven't built anything yet). So the light would be roughly 9' from the substrate. The length of light strips I am planning would be 27' long.

If I ran one strip of each color, red green and blue(3 total) at approximately half a metre each, would give me 1.5 metres of 5630's. Their output is listed as 1200 lumens per metre so 1800 lumens total at full power for all three 1/2 metre strips. If I ran them all off a 12v 2A power supply and connected a dimmer to each separate strip I could adjust their intensity and also use the dimmers to get different night time colors.

Does anyone know if this would be considered low/medium or high light?

What combination of strips would you recommend for low, medium and high light?


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## Hoppy

biznitch said:


> Can anyone help me with some strip lighting suggestions for a shallow tank. It's dimensions are 9' x 9' x 29'. Ultimately I was planning on the light sitting on the top of the tank in a custom hood/light fitting to minimise glare.
> I already have some cool white 5630 strips and some 5050 warm white. Was thinking of buying some more 5630 RGB strips to add color effects.(the individual color strips not the combined ones)
> The substrate I am planning would be approximately an inch deep up to 2 inches deep and the light strips will be recessed in the hood an inch to two inches.(haven't built anything yet). So the light would be roughly 9' from the substrate. The length of light strips I am planning would be 27' long.
> 
> If I ran one strip of each color, red green and blue(3 total) at approximately half a metre each, would give me 1.5 metres of 5630's. Their output is listed as 1200 lumens per metre so 1800 lumens total at full power for all three 1/2 metre strips. If I ran them all off a 12v 2A power supply and connected a dimmer to each separate strip I could adjust their intensity and also use the dimmers to get different night time colors.
> 
> Does anyone know if this would be considered low/medium or high light?
> 
> What combination of strips would you recommend for low, medium and high light?


One strip of cool white 5633 LEDs, at 9 inches, should give you about 40 PAR, low medium light. Using multiple strips would give you more, unless you dim them some way. I didn't experiment with RGB LEDs, so I don't know what their output is like.


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## steeltkb

This is interesting - they have UV LEDs with spectra in the 400 nm range: http://www.amazon.com/Wit-Lighting-16-4ft-Purple-395nm-405nm-Waterproof/dp/B00MRJ0AB6/


From a chart I saw, 400 nm is a good wavelength for photosynthesis. I wonder if freshwater fish colors / iridescence would be improved with a little "near UV"? I don't think many freshwater organisms fluoresce like all the saltwater soft corals do, and I guess that's probably the main reason the marine lights have some UV component.

Although there are those "GloFish" they sell at the big box stores now..........









Which remind me of this video:
"Weird Al" Yankovic - Tacky


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## KnH

Well I have made some progress my lights
2=- heatsinks 2” x 60” with Waterproof SMD 5630 leds from amazon
Very bright! 4 rows of white & 1 row of warm white


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## jeffkrol

KnH said:


> Well I have made some progress my lights
> 2=- heatsinks 2” x 60” with Waterproof SMD 5630 leds from amazon
> Very bright! 4 rows of white & 1 row of warm white


looks good.. lot of light.. and watts.. 
I suspect you are going to be using a controller..


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## KnH

They will be on a standard light timer
I have 2-power supply's so I could run the lights independent of each other.

The distance for the light and sand bed is 30".

Im looking for Low to Medium light for sword plants and anubias, so I not sure where I am at for lighting strength. 
Any guesses? will one do or do I need both of them.


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## jeffkrol

KnH said:


> They will be on a standard light timer
> I have 2-power supply's so I could run the lights independent of each other.
> 
> The distance for the light and sand bed is 30".
> 
> Im looking for Low to Medium light for sword plants and anubias, so I not sure where I am at for lighting strength.
> Any guesses? will one do or do I need both of them.


As a ballpark figure you can figure 25W/meter... 
Roughly 125W per bar.... 
They are run fairly conservative but still there is a lot of heat load..

And SMD's aren't "quite" as suitable for a deep tank

And how wide is the tank??

Personally I'd see how well 1 runs on full.. Then possibly use 2 dimmed if heating is an issue..

I still suggest a cheap programmer for timing/dimming...


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## KnH

The tank is a 180g bowfront, width is 16" to 24"


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## hellrazor

Hi i was thinking about doing a diy aquarium light with ebay smd strips for a while but read that the wavelengths might not be suitable for an aquarium.
Now that i have found this post i might give it a go!
I have a 6x2x2 ft tank and want to make a light that goes the full 1.8m long, money isnt an issue i can buy however many strips i need, i want to grow all types of plants.
How many strips and how many of each color would you recommend for a tank this size in freshwater?
Cheers


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## Hoppy

You can grow all types of plants with a wide range of light intensity. You will need CO2 more than you will need high light. If you shoot for around 50-60 PAR, and use CO2 carefully adjusted to the optimum bubble rate, you should be able to grow whatever you want. The number of strips of LEDs you need depends on how far above the top of the tank you plan to suspend the light, and whether you are going to use a reflective "shade" over the light to help focus it down into the tank.


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## pjacques

I was thinking of following this threads instruction for DIY led strip and was hoping for you recommendation on how many strips of cool white for low to medium light plants and if I should add warm white or red or green as well to it. My tank dimensions are 38.5" L x 14.8" W x 18.5" H (16.6" off substrate). I am also building this into my in progress DIY Hood which will sit the light approximately 3-5 inches off the water and also through glass.
Speaking of the glass, do you think it will cause negative reflection or diminish the Par through the light?

Thanks!


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## Hoppy

For 40 PAR at 20 inches, I would use 7 strips, using a mix of cool white and warm white that looks best to you. This is without a reflective "shade" over the light, which is what your hood would probably be (no reflective shade, just a means of shielding your eyes). If you keep the cover glass on the tank clean, it will reduce the PAR by around 10-15%, not enough to be concerned about.

With your two heatsink design, you could use 4 strips on each of them, with them mounted just a few inches apart.

I wouldn't use any red or green LEDs, unless you want to experiment with 5630 red and green - full power LED strips. Even then I wouldn't try more than one of each color per heatsink.


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## pjacques

Hoppy said:


> For 40 PAR at 20 inches, I would use 7 strips, using a mix of cool white and warm white that looks best to you. This is without a reflective "shade" over the light, which is what your hood would probably be (no reflective shade, just a means of shielding your eyes). If you keep the cover glass on the tank clean, it will reduce the PAR by around 10-15%, not enough to be concerned about.
> 
> With your two heatsink design, you could use 4 strips on each of them, with them mounted just a few inches apart.
> 
> I wouldn't use any red or green LEDs, unless you want to experiment with 5630 red and green - full power LED strips. Even then I wouldn't try more than one of each color per heatsink.


Sounds great Thank you! As far as the hood, I do plan on painting the inside of the hood white so I guess it would be slightly reflective. 

Thanks again!


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## pjacques

I got confused reading this thread... What power supply is necessary to support 8 strips?

Thanks!


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## Rooster

Since fitting mine with led strips, I have now lost several groups of 3! 
No idea if it's a heat thing... But if I was to repeat the exercise, I'd use NON waterproof strips, as repairs are going to be a royal pain in the rear :-(


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## pjacques

Rooster said:


> Since fitting mine with led strips, I have now lost several groups of 3!
> No idea if it's a heat thing... But if I was to repeat the exercise, I'd use NON waterproof strips, as repairs are going to be a royal pain in the rear :-(


It is concerning that they burnt out within 4 months...


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## Solcielo lawrencia

Rooster said:


> Since fitting mine with led strips, I have now lost several groups of 3!
> No idea if it's a heat thing... But if I was to repeat the exercise, I'd use NON waterproof strips, as repairs are going to be a royal pain in the rear :-(


Sounds like a low-quality (cheap $) strip for it to do that. Higher quality ones shouldn't.


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## Hoppy

My light is still running normally. This is with some of the adhesive attaching the strips to the heatsink not working very well.


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## Mike Letourneau

Hey Hoppy,

Thanks again for posting such a thorough DIY thread. It took me all day to read it but I understood most of your process and the invaluable advice of other fellow planters (thanks for everyone who provided data to the thread).

During a reading break this afternoon I was thinking back to the aluminum heatsink you used in the build and it got me thinking... metal is a great thermal conductor.... I wonder if there were other metals out there which could conduct heat more efficiently than aluminum. So I Googled it - aluminum has a thermal conductivity of 205 W/(m K) while copper has a thermal conductivity of 401 W/(m K) http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/thermal-conductivity-d_429.html (P.S. I have no clue what the units of measure are suppose to represent)

So here is the burning question in my mind which is preventing me from getting any sleep until its answered:
Copper seems to have twice as much thermal conductivity as aluminum, would it stand to reason that it would also be twice as efficient at dissipating heat when used as a heatsink? Also, I realize copper is not very attractive as a fixture when its suspended from a ceiling and so would painting copper (or any metal) affect its thermal conductivity by any practical amount?

The other question I have centers around LED drivers. My biggest knowledge gap is knowing where/why/when/what/how to match an LED driver to an LED (or LED strip). What sorts of things does one need to assess in a driver when selecting it for strip lighting?
I often see things on retails sites about "constant current" and all kinds of mathematical equations in various threads regarding amperage/voltage/ohms. Sadly, none of it makes any sense to me. I promise I'm a very intelligent person but math is my kryptonite and thus my eyes begin to gloss over when I see prolonged calculus/algebraic calculations.
So of the countless options which populate on my screen when doing an Amazon/"fleabay" search for drivers, how do I begin to narrow down the list into the ones I need?

I don't know if the following is even possible, but...

I'd love to be able to have the option of dimming my various strands of lights along with the ability to integrate a sunrise/sunset/moonlight function (blue strip light sold separately - I know) into my project. From the various other threads I've read on the site, am I right in my understanding that every strand/"channel" I wish to control individually, requires its own dimmable driver?

My thought process is as follows:
If I want a sunrise function - dimmable driver #1 is needed to control 2 strands of the warm whites to come on slowly
If I want a high-noon effect - driver #2 is needed to turn on all of the other white (cw + ww) LED strands
Would I also need another driver to simulate a sunset function or would I simply use the first channel in reverse? (...is that even possible?)
If I want a moonlight effect - dimmable driver #3 is needed power up the blue strip (would I need another separate dimmable driver to reverse the process and begin to power down the blue strip?)

Is my thought process flawed regarding the drivers layout?


I'm looking forward to hearing from anyone with insight.

I have a 55g tank and I think I plan to use a heatsink a few inches smaller than my tank's perimeter along with smd 7020 LEDs. Tank is 48" long by 12" wide, I may use a heatsink 40" long by 10" wide unless there is a very good reason why this is a bad idea?


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## Solcielo lawrencia

pjacques said:


> I got confused reading this thread... What power supply is necessary to support 8 strips?
> 
> Thanks!


To select the necessary power supply, two pieces of information are needed: voltage and amperage.

You need the required voltage (12v). You can use less voltage (e.g. 9v) so that it is dimmer but you can't use more (e.g. 15v) or it can burn out the strip. Be sure to check the strip's indicated voltage as some use 24v.

Then you need the necessary amperage (6a). You can use less (e.g. 5a or 2a) but then it may not supply enough power to light up the entire strip to full intensity. You can use more amperage (e.g. 10a) as the strip will only draw the amount of amperage it needs.

Bump: Also note, for some reason, the bundled LED strip light packages comes with a 12v 5a power supply. However, the necessary amperage to power the entire strip to full intensity is actually 6 amps. I'm pretty certain this is done to save cost since a 6a power supply is more expensive than a 5a. However, the drawback is that the end of the strip light will be noticeably dimmer.


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## Hoppy

Heatsinks should have a high thermal conductivity, a high density, and a high specific heat. What we use isn't really a heat sink, it is mostly a heat conductor, to conduct the heat away from the LED junctions to where it can be dissipated by conduction or convection to the air. So, the best measure of a good "heatsink" for a LED light is high thermal conductivity. The metals with high thermal conductivity are silver, gold, copper and aluminum. (The one with the worst thermal conductivity is titanium.) Since cost is a major factor, aluminum is the best material to use.

SMD LED strips are made to be powered with a 12 volt DC power supply. The longer the strip, the more LEDs, and the more current the power supply has to provide. The LEDs are in groups of 2 or 3, and those groups are wired in parallel, so it takes 12 volts to supply the relatively fixed voltage drop for 2 or 3 LEDs in series, and it takes whatever current the total number of parallel groups draws. The current through each LED is controlled by the tiny ballast resistor mounted in series with each of the 2 or 3 LED groups - the current will be the excess of voltage over the fixed voltage drop on the LEDs divided by the resistance of the resistor. All we have to do is find a 12 VDC power supply that can provide at least the total current draw of all of the strips we have wired in parallel.

Those SMD LED strips usually have a cheap, tiny dimmer available for them that lets you dim either the whole strip or the specific color LEDs in the strips.


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## pjacques

Thank you for all of your responses! I will be picking up the power supply tonight and will be soldering it all together this weekend. Ill post a picture after I am done.

Thanks again everyone!


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## Hoppy

Bad news! My SMD LED light just failed. All it does now is flash about every 3 seconds. That is the white LEDs only. The colored ones still stay on. I don't know if this is a 12 VDC power supply failure, unlikely, or an intermittent open circuit in the LED tape. I suspect it is the latter. Tomorrow I will see if I can troubleshoot it.


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## Hoppy

I looked at the light closely today - no discolored areas, no visible problems at all. It just doesn't work now, flashing like a strobe light but never actually staying on. I do see that the tapes are not well attached to the heatsink now, and the tapes are longer than before, as if they expanded in length, so they can't even be restuck by just pressing them back on. I'm very disappointed in how short a time this worked, by how poor the adhesive on the tapes is, and the overall poor quality.

So, I just ordered a Finnex Planted Plus light to replace it - not much more expensive than this light was.


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## jeffkrol

Hoppy said:


> Bad news! My SMD LED light just failed. All it does now is flash about every 3 seconds. That is the white LEDs only. The colored ones still stay on. I don't know if this is a 12 VDC power supply failure, unlikely, or an intermittent open circuit in the LED tape. I suspect it is the latter. Tomorrow I will see if I can troubleshoot it.


how do you have this wired? Sounds more like a driver/ps "auto cutoff" due to a short or an overheat condition... more than an open.. 



> 4.) Check for an Electrical Short Most power supplies have built in electrical short protection, this will cause the power supply to turn on and off, almost like a blinking effect.


http://www.ecolocityled.com/category/led_troubleshoot_power


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## Hoppy

The LED strips are wired to a 12 VDC power supply, with enough current capacity to drive all of the LEDs in the strip. The LEDs are wired in groups of 3 in series with a ballast resistor, and the groups are all in parallel. The power goes into both ends of the "ladder" of parallel groups. It worked without any problems for about 3-4 months, then was off for about 4 months, and back on for another 2 months. (I moved when it was off.)

I'm using this "disaster" as an opportunity to try the Finnex Planted Plus, which should give me about the light intensity I want, with better color. (When faced with broken eggs, make an omelet?) Amazon sells the 3 foot ones for $107, which is very competitive with what this DIY light cost me.


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## blinky2088

Would the thermal paste used in computers be of any use here. I used it when fixing the red ring of death on my xbox in past. Attaching the led to heat sink slash heat conductor to assist in keeping temps cooler??

I have set these led strips set up but ending up using epoxy glue instead of the supplied tape. Connection is solid now. I also purchased the waterproof strips with the added.silicone protection with no real issues and run them for about 6 months. Only issue is I didnt connect them to power supply by solder I used the clamp on style connectors that dont always give a good connection especially with the supplied wired end of the led I cut off and there is still big balls of solder making connection loose to only 1.strip of led the other 3 run fine.

I also affixed them to the aluminum led channels they sell 100cm and affix that to a piece of dowel so it fits directly into my t5ho fixture and run both t5ho with led accent. All hidden and somewhat tidy its a 6 bulb led fixture and runs 4 bulbs t5ho and 4 channels led( 2 red 2 blue) over 75 gallon.

With t5ho and led running and sitting directly over the tank it does get hotter than leds by themself with space over tank. No fans running


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## Mike Letourneau

blinky2088 said:


> Would the thermal paste used in computers be of any use here. I used it when fixing the red ring of death on my xbox in past. Attaching the led to heat sink slash heat conductor to assist in keeping temps cooler??
> 
> I have set these led strips set up but ending up using epoxy glue instead of the supplied tape. Connection is solid now. I also purchased the waterproof strips with the added.silicone protection with no real issues and run them for about 6 months. Only issue is I didnt connect them to power supply by solder I used the clamp on style connectors that dont always give a good connection especially with the supplied wired end of the led I cut off and there is still big balls of solder making connection loose to only 1.strip of led the other 3 run fine.
> 
> I also affixed them to the aluminum led channels they sell 100cm and affix that to a piece of dowel so it fits directly into my t5ho fixture and run both t5ho with led accent. All hidden and somewhat tidy its a 6 bulb led fixture and runs 4 bulbs t5ho and 4 channels led( 2 red 2 blue) over 75 gallon.
> 
> With t5ho and led running and sitting directly over the tank it does get hotter than leds by themself with space over tank. No fans running


Don't suppose you can provide a few pictures of the wiring setup along with a few additional pictures of the finished product?


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## pjacques

Well I have finally finished both my new hood and led strip lights. They are protected from glass and the hood has an exhaust fan, so hopefully that is enough to protect from the moisture as they are the non waterproof kind.
Ended up using 7 strips of 5630 leds, 4 cool white and 3 warm.


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## jeffkrol

pjacques said:


> Well I have finally finished both my new hood and led strip lights. They are protected from glass and the hood has an exhaust fan, so hopefully that is enough to protect from the moisture as they are the non waterproof kind.
> Ended up using 7 strips of 5630 leds, 4 cool white and 3 warm.


looks good from here but more importantly.. what are your first impressions?

Secondly did you split the channels or add a dimmer/timer?


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## pjacques

Thanks! I found it produces more heat than I expected. I did add a dimmer and a timer.


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## thelub

Is this on one 12v power supply? I have 6 rows above my 80 on one supply and I can't tell if it's doing anything or not.


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## jeffkrol

thelub said:


> Is this on one 12v power supply? I have 6 rows above my 80 on one supply and I can't tell if it's doing anything or not.


hmm what do you mean? Which chips (different chips/different power output)? What is the amp output of the power supply (more amps the better, to a point)?


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## saiko

Mike Letourneau said:


> My biggest knowledge gap is knowing where/why/when/what/how to match an LED driver to an LED (or LED strip). What sorts of things does one need to assess in a driver when selecting it for strip lighting?
> I often see things on retails sites about "constant current" and all kinds of mathematical equations in various threads regarding amperage/voltage/ohms. Sadly, none of it makes any sense to me. I promise I'm a very intelligent person but math is my kryptonite and thus my eyes begin to gloss over when I see prolonged calculus/algebraic calculations.
> So of the countless options which populate on my screen when doing an Amazon/"fleabay" search for drivers, how do I begin to narrow down the list into the ones I need?
> 
> I don't know if the following is even possible, but...
> 
> I'd love to be able to have the option of dimming my various strands of lights along with the ability to integrate a sunrise/sunset/moonlight function (blue strip light sold separately - I know) into my project. From the various other threads I've read on the site, am I right in my understanding that every strand/"channel" I wish to control individually, requires its own dimmable driver?
> 
> My thought process is as follows:
> If I want a sunrise function - dimmable driver #1 is needed to control 2 strands of the warm whites to come on slowly
> If I want a high-noon effect - driver #2 is needed to turn on all of the other white (cw + ww) LED strands
> Would I also need another driver to simulate a sunset function or would I simply use the first channel in reverse? (...is that even possible?)
> If I want a moonlight effect - dimmable driver #3 is needed power up the blue strip (would I need another separate dimmable driver to reverse the process and begin to power down the blue strip?)
> 
> Is my thought process flawed regarding the drivers layout?
> 
> 
> I'm looking forward to hearing from anyone with insight.
> 
> I have a 55g tank and I think I plan to use a heatsink a few inches smaller than my tank's perimeter along with smd 7020 LEDs. Tank is 48" long by 12" wide, I may use a heatsink 40" long by 10" wide unless there is a very good reason why this is a bad idea?


this should get you started 
http://playsofrays.blogspot.in/2012/12/leds-made-easy.html?m=1


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## pjacques

thelub said:


> Is this on one 12v power supply? I have 6 rows above my 80 on one supply and I can't tell if it's doing anything or not.


Mine are on one 12v power supply which is pushing it. it is a 12v 8A power supply. the general rule of thumb is 80% of the total ampage.


----------



## jeffkrol

saiko said:


> this should get you started
> http://playsofrays.blogspot.in/2012/12/leds-made-easy.html?m=1


Thanks..
7020=5630's ...


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## KnH

I added a ramp up timer for my lights & I use a dimmer to control the brightness,they work very well together, aprox $30


Amazon.com : Current USA Single Ramp Timer for Aquarium : Pet Supplies

Amazon.com: JACKYLED LED Light Single Color RF Dimmer Controller Control DC 12-24V 8A: Musical Instruments


----------



## hitmanx

Hoppy said:


> Bad news! My SMD LED light just failed. All it does now is flash about every 3 seconds. That is the white LEDs only. The colored ones still stay on. I don't know if this is a 12 VDC power supply failure, unlikely, or an intermittent open circuit in the LED tape. I suspect it is the latter. Tomorrow I will see if I can troubleshoot it.


After reading this thread for most of the morning in between spurts of working, on the edge of my seat, with the wheels turning and the circus music playing in my head, I was struck down and saddened to read this last post... I really was hopping to use this style of light for my future 36x24x12 shallow Riparium build...

Have you abandoned this project totally without finding a cause?

I guess it's back to buying and using 2 kessil 160's ( :help: I need $$$)


----------



## Hoppy

hitmanx said:


> After reading this thread for most of the morning in between spurts of working, on the edge of my seat, with the wheels turning and the circus music playing in my head, I was struck down and saddened to read this last post... I really was hopping to use this style of light for my future 36x24x12 shallow Riparium build...
> 
> Have you abandoned this project totally without finding a cause?
> 
> I guess it's back to buying and using 2 kessil 160's ( :help: I need $$$)


Yes, I abandoned the project. I wanted to try a LED light with added near IR LEDs, so I decided to buy the Finnnex Planted Plus light. It is in use now, and works much better, better appearance, better plant growth. I think it is possible to make a good light with the strips of LEDs, but I think first you need to find a good way to make them stick permanently to the heatsink, and a good near IR LED strip to add more red to the spectrum. My strips kept separating from the heatsink, which may have contributed to their early failure.


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## jomaliens

Hey Hoppy,

Thanks for posting such a thorough DIY thread. 

I buy one of these leds from supernight.cc two years ago(still working) and definitely getting better, very good quality and strong colors, high gloss.
(http://www.supernight.cc/5050smd-strip.html)


----------

