# Cyling aquasoil outside in a tub. Faster than regular cycling?



## TeamTeal (Mar 31, 2010)

it will be a mess to move wet aquasoil around. just run the established filter in the 60-p with the new aquasoil. it took my tank 3 weeks to cycle with new aquasoil, established filter and no water change.


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## jwm5 (May 9, 2010)

even doing that I would still be cautious, and not throw everything in that tank at the same time and assume it is fully cycled, doing it may help speed it up, but I would still wait at least a week once its in the tank until I put any fish in.

be very careful about bugs... I took some gravel out of my pond that was in pots and brought it inside and I had mosquitoes coming out of it for like 4 weeks, so be very careful with sealing it up if it will be outside, maybe buy a cheap piece of thin plexiglass to put over the tubs rather than screening.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

I think that one major problem with that idea is that you'll be damaging the AS by stirring it around so much. Over time, it breaks down, but the motion and exposure caused by stirring it around my cause that to happen faster.


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## captain_bu (Oct 20, 2007)

Bad idea... IMHO you are going to break down the aquasoil prematurely and end up with a big gloppy, cloudy mess. There is absolutely no need to stir aquasoil to increase "contact" with the water.

Patience is one of the most important "tools" to have in this hobby. If you are not willing to let the aquasoil cycle at its own rate you should select a different substrate.

FWIW.... I have two aquasoil tanks. Both were set up (heavily planted) with used filter media and I did daily large water changes. Both tanks cycled in 13-14 days.


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## deleted_user_7 (Jul 7, 2003)

Oh wow i didn't know it was that sensitive. I will stop stirring! 

Even if it all cycles within 14 days, that's great, but what do ido with my five ottos and fifty shrimp in my established 15 gallon tank while I wait for the aquasoil to cycle in the 60-p? I've only got one eheim 2215.

I'm mainly worried about the fifty cherries. If tye ottos doe I can replace them, as mean as that sounds, but the cherries I had tohavw shipped to me and that's fifty bucks worth. Ottos are just a buck a pop.


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## TeamTeal (Mar 31, 2010)

they wont die without a filter. just give it some flow and dont feed as much


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## malaybiswas (Nov 2, 2008)

just put the plants in first and let it cycle for 2-3 weeks, then introduce fauna. no need to pre-cycle. I exclusively use aquasoil and never needed to pre-cycle it.


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## deleted_user_7 (Jul 7, 2003)

But I'm waiting for my tank to come. It was just shipped fedex ground yesterday and will be here in a week. If i keep it in water (no more stirring, I promise) and change the water daily, that will get rid of a good bit of ammonia and cut my cycling time down by at least a week. 

It just makes sense to me. Think of the plastic tub as an aquarium... What's the difference? I don't understand why I shouldn't be doing 100% water changes daily to remove ammonia during the week I am waiting for my tank to come. I will stop stirring.


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## Booger (May 17, 2004)

I hate aquasoil. It grows plants, but don't even look at it funny or it will turn to mush. That said, here's my no brains required method of taming it. I don't really worry about cycling and most of my test kits are buried in storage somewhere.

1) Dry scape (get it right the first time) and fill tank as slowly as you can tolerate
2) Add plants and fish as desired, but be sure to include large portion of weeds (water sprite, java moss, whatever) for the first few weeks
3) Change water frequently
4) Do not ever disturb aquasoil, think bad thoughts about aquasoil, or feed aquasoil after midnight


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## IWANNAGOFAST (Jan 14, 2008)

As long as you stopped stirring you should be ok, but it's gonna be a big mess to try to scape with wet aquasoil, and it'll be VERY cloudy when you move it to the new tank, even just moving this stuff breaks it down!

When I set up my 48gal, I used old AS from my 20long to help the cycle, took about 1.5 weeks. 

I had to cap the old AS with the new stuff, otherwise it'd be cloudy as heck.


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

I think you are on the right track. Keep up with the water changes to keep the ammonia level as low as possible in the water, and more ammonia ought to come out of the soil faster. If you can gently move the water without the substrate moving, then this might help. Perhaps a small fountain pump or power head sort of high up in the tubs?

Part of cycling this soil is also that it is growing nitrifying bacteria, so I would keep the temperature moderate (no higher than the mid 80s) and add some minerals if the GH and KH of the water you are using is less than 3 degrees. Add dechlor to the water change water, too. Keep these tubs out of the sun. 

To move this material to the tank: Siphon out the water then scoop the soil very gently into the tank, being careful to place it where you want it. (Higher in the back, lower in the front, build mounds... whatever. Just do not work it too much. 
Then plant. The soil is wet, but you have not added water to the tank, yet. Mist the plants. 
When you are ready to add water put a plate or plastic bag over the soil and pour the water in slowly. 1 gallon per minute max. The water should land on the plate and seep over the sides slowly. While you are filling you can also be setting up equipment. Filling the tank this way is very good to prevent cloudiness and also prevents stirring and damage to the substrate. 

If you have only the one filter, then I would run it on the new set up for less than a day if there is no source of ammonia. Otherwise the nitrifying bacteria will start to starve. If the tests are good, and the water pretty close to clear then add the fish and shrimp ASAP. If the soil is still cycling then there will be ammonia to feed the bacteria, but because you have cycled it so much ahead of time the remaining cycle ought to finish off pretty fast. 
Still, the fish and shrimp need the water movement and the nitrifying bacteria from their filter. You might have to move the filter back if the new set up takes too long. 
What is too long? I dunno. Test for ammonia in the shrimp/fish tank, and if there is any, then do a water change and give them back their filter.


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## deleted_user_7 (Jul 7, 2003)

I guess I can take half the biomedia out of my canister and put it in the hang on tank filter I just bought for my current tank when I move my canister to the new tank.

Can I dry out the aquasoil in the sun to make scaping easier when my new tank arrives? Or will it degrade? I don't see what could be so hard about using it wet but if everyone days it's hard then it must be.

I really had no idea aquasoil was so sensitive lol.


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

justlikeapill said:


> I guess I can take half the biomedia out of my canister and put it in the hang on tank filter I just bought for my current tank when I move my canister to the new tank.
> 
> Can I dry out the aquasoil in the sun to make scaping easier when my new tank arrives? Or will it degrade? I don't see what could be so hard about using it wet but if everyone days it's hard then it must be.
> 
> I really had no idea aquasoil was so sensitive lol.



It starts to crumble if you let it dry out. People use it wet all the time....people just dry scape so that the waters not in the way.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Many people see the leaching of ammonia as a positive thing. It basically allows a new tank to cycle on it's own with no need to add anything. I have been hesitant to use it because I haven't had an opportunity to setup up a new tank. Every "new" tank I have started was an existing tank or everything from the old needs to go in the new. I don't have time for a long cycle. However, if I was adding a totally new tank, a long cycle seems to be nothing but beneficial to me personally. Then again, it isn't clear if you have already started your method in the way you have posted.


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## deleted_user_7 (Jul 7, 2003)

Leaching of ammonia is a good thing if you are first setting up a tank, that way you can do the fishless cycle method. But for me it's bad since I already have a cycled tank. I don't want my fish and shrimp to be exposed to ammonia. I went the cheap rout and used fluorite, now I have bought all the aquasoil I need but since I didn't do think right the first time I'm going through this hassle. I really wish Amano would make a version without all that ammonia. Or maybe ammonia that is bound somehow and not water soluble, but the plants can still access it. In my dreams.

Another reason I went ahead and bought aquasoil is because it's soft and I don't want it to scratch my 60-p. I'm that proud to have one lol. 

I had started this method several days before I posted actually. I had already been doing it and wanted to see what everyone else though,t. I guess its been about a week. 

I have stopped stirring. Every day I drain all the water in the tubs (I have two because im keeping regular and powder separate) and refill. I use plastic bags and put them over the A.S. Before I refill soidont disturb the granules. I'm only using like five gallons per tub. I havnt tested ammonia yet, there's not really a point since I know it's still leaching.


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## deleted_user_7 (Jul 7, 2003)

For the sake of history in case anyone wants to look it up, i have ended this experiment because my 60-p arrives tomorrownaccording to fedex tracking. I figured it was time to wrap it up. 

Over the course of two or three hours, I have been rinsing. I rinses and rinsed and rinsed to let all the silt drain away. The amount of silt was incredible. I rinsed the regular aquasoil ( about 5.5 liters) using window screening. I used the mist nozzle on the garden hose until the water draining wass mostly clear (but still brownish.) I was very gentle when handling or mooching bothh types of aquasoil.

I rinsed the aquasoil powder (3 liters) one liter at a time by take a large Terra cotta flower pot, then taking a large piece of bonded quilt batting (about 2x2 feet) and placed it in the pot. There was enough overhang so there would be no slippage. I poured in a liter of amazonia powderr at a time then poured in a half gallon of water. It didn't drain through the bottom of the pot very fast so I picked it all up using all the overhang as a handle (try to picture it because this is very effective) and as I picked it up water really poured out. It was like chocolate milk and where it fell to wood on the deck, as it drained, you could see the silt forming as it drained. Nothing I want in my tank! I had a giant blob of amazonia powder wrapped in quilt batting I was holding by the excess quilt batting in my hand, and when it was pretty much done draining I placed it back in the flower pot, opened up the "handle" that was really excess quilt batting, and poured in another half gallon. I repeated the same step, this time cloudy water came out but it was very translucent and not nearly as filthy as the first time. I wrapped it up, let it drain, and did the same thing to the other two liters of amazonia powder.

I measured how much product I had. Out of a three liter bag of amazonia powder, after approximately a week or so of leaching ammonia outside in large tubs filled with water, changing 100% of the water daily, and gently stirring up the aquasoil (both types) for the first several days (then stopping because I was told it was damaging the granules), I had a final amount of.... Drumroll please...

2.8 liters of amazonia powder. I have VERY clean powder and eliminated most of the silt and dust, and a good bit of ammonia. I lost .2 liters of Amazonia powder, and to be honest I bet most of that was by me not being neat and tidy because I can see tiny granules of amazonia powder around the area I did all of this, and when I changed the water I would empty it by tipping it over, so some granules managed to escape sometimes.

.2 liters is less an one cup. I am happy with the results and pleased at how little was lost. The real question, the question I don't know the answer to, is of all the silt that was removed, how much of it was silt that I created? Let's go ahead and say all .2 liters lossed were silt (but it was not), would it be fair to say that by me stirring it the first few days I made had the silt that ended up being removed? 

Even if I had never stirred, it was impossible to cure the aquasoil outside without disturbing it at all, because when I changed 100% of the water daily I mean I really did try to change it all. I tipped over the tubs and let all the water drain out, until as I was slowly tipping it turned to a trickle and some granules started to escape. During that process, the aquasoil (both types) would move around and "avalanche" and "landslide" while I was tipping e tubs to remove the water. 

I have the almost the same amount of regular aquasoil. My large measuring cup doesnt measure in milliliters or anything, so it is just under the amount that I started with but not enough was lot so make a difference to the graduated marks on my pyrex measuring cup. None of this ever "escaped" when changing the water because the granules are much larger and heavier. Id imagine it is less sensitive to damage than the powder type. 

I have three more liters of powder type coming without my 60-p tomorrow. I will rinse it with the method of rinsing the powder type I described above and see if the water that comes out is just as muddy. My hypothesis is that it will need a lot, lot, lot more rinsing that the batch in rinsed today did, because a lot of sediment was removed during all those daily 100% water changes. I have no plans of curing the new powder amazonia that (hopefully) arrives tomorrow outside for a week with daily water changes, because I don't have time and need it to set up my tank tomorrow. I will take frequent ammonia tests and post the results here so they can be compared to others who just dumped new aqua soil in and added water to their tank.

One thing i am unsure of, however, it whether I should add the amazonia powder that comes tomorrow on top of the powder i have now or under it. Any ideas?


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## jmhart (Mar 14, 2008)

Don't rinse AS.....you've paid A LOT of money for it, why rinse away the good stuff?

Rinsing it isn't going to get rid of the ammonia. All that silt is straight nutrients for the plants. If you use the plate method to fill the tank, you won't end up cloudy. Even if you do, it only takes 2 or 3 days to settle out. 

There's really no need to rinse the AS.

I understood your idea to get it to pre-cycle, but that was different than just rinsing away the silt.


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## deleted_user_7 (Jul 7, 2003)

I never said rinsing would get rid if the ammonia. 

The soaking i did for over a week and the 100% water changes help get rid of some of the ammonia to cut down on the cycling time of the new tank. I want to make it as short and sweet as possible so I can move my fauna in.

I rinsed it to remove the silt, which i want as little of as possible in my aquarium. I like once, soft rounded little granules, not the silt and dust that settles in between them. 

I spent a lot of money but only lost less than a cup of silt, which I wanted to remove. I'm happy. If my math was right, I lost about $0.16. That won't break my bank. 

If you want to keep the silt don't wash it. That's cool. I just didn't want it and posted it here in case someone else ever searches for similar information. The aquasoil will eventually degrade and I'll have silt in the media again, but not for a while. Meanwhile when I plant things won't get as cloudy, when I add water (even with a plate or plastic bag) things won't be as cloudy... All for the cost of losing about sixteen cents worth of aquasoil silt.


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## alan j t (Feb 13, 2008)

i tried to cycle the AS in a bucket outside with w/c but once i added it with an established filter in my 40 gal, it still didnt work for me. i lost all my fauna.


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## deleted_user_7 (Jul 7, 2003)

Yeah I wasn't counting on being that lucky... I was just wanting to cut down the cycling time in the new tank by a week.

I will be keeping all my shrimp and five otocinclus in their current tank (new tank comes tomorrow! So excited!) until the new tank has been cycled. I will be putting my established canister on the new tank but i got them a little power filter for some water movement. There will probably be a mini cycle in the old tank since I'm removing the canister and all that bio media in there, but I'm leaving all the old fluorite. Daily small water changes should keep them happy in the old tank until the new one is cycled.

I'm hoping the new tank will be ready for fish and shrimp in just two weeks because I did all that soaking, and a, moving my established canister to the new tank. If it takes longer I'll be bummed but you can't rush the progression of things like this.


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## deleted_user_7 (Jul 7, 2003)

Ok guys. Yere is the data. It has been approximate two weeks since I started all this. I never tested the aquasoil when I started curing it outside in plastic tubs, doing daily water changes. 

Today is the fourth day it has been in my tank and here is the information so far. I should note that I used an established Eheim 2215 on this tank. Before I added all the water, I added a small bottle of Seachem Stability (the small $6 bottle) and poured it evenly into the aquasoil and let it air a while for the aquasoil to absorb it. That was the only time i added stability. I have been doing 50% water changes daily at night before the lights go out, and the tank os planted very lightly and the plant a have yet to grow in. I have not been testing for nitrates since i am adding a pinch of KNO3 after each water change, anyway. The following days are days after being IN the 60-p, not days TOTAL. I did NOT test ammo ia levels during the week o pre-cycled this stuff since the water was too cloudy in the tubs anyway.

Day 1: 4 ppm NH4, 0 ppm NO2
Day 2: 3 ppm NH4, 0 ppm NO2
Day 3: 1 ppm NH4, .25 ppm NO2
Day 4: 0 ppm NH4, .25 ppm NO2

Since there is NO2, it's not finished but is almost done! I hope to add my fish and shrimp within a week. 

Was it the Seachem stability? Soaking for a week while doing 100% daily wayer changes? Did the rinsing process I did help? I did not soak 3 liters of powder and uses in fresh put of the back. When soaking outside, did stirring (abetted way to put it is folding. The way you fold in cooking when stirring is too aggressive and can't be done.) all rhetorical questions. 

One thing is for sure, to have leached all the ammonia in 14 days is incredible. Getting your aquasoil in advance of your aquarium and pre-cycling does help tremendously, according to this experiment.


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