# I want a low tech aquarium...



## rpayer (Jun 9, 2008)

avilamillar said:


> Hi im new in the planted aquariums, but have 2 marine aquariums (one reef and one fish only) im interested in the planted aquariums. i want to start with something easy.
> 
> What do i need to mantain some plants (can you recommend me the easiest to care) some guppys and tetras ( or what do you recommend me)
> 
> ...


What about a filter?


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## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

avilamillar said:


> Hi im new in the planted aquariums, but have 2 marine aquariums (one reef and one fish only) im interested in the planted aquariums. i want to start with something easy.
> 
> What do i need to mantain some plants (can you recommend me the easiest to care) some guppys and tetras ( or what do you recommend me)
> 
> ...


You might find these two links helpful. I would recommend either method. For fish, I suggest you stick with hardy fish in case something goes wrong, they are more likely to survive. Amano shrimp have proven really hardy for me. Whitecloud minnows are pretty hardy and can tolerate temperature fluctuations pretty well, snails(zebra nerite) that don't reproduce are also hardy, paradise fish are hardy and can also tolerate temperature fluctuations well, zebra danios work well but can be nippy. Of course compatibility comes to play and you have to be careful of what you mix and match. It is always a good idea to have a good blend of compatible low dwelling, middle dwelling, and bottom dwelling fish, and most importantly, resist all temptation to ovestock your tank.

Tom Barr's method:
http://www.barrreport.com/articles/4...2-methods.html

Vicki's method:
http://vickisaquaticplace.com/PlantsChapter1.html


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Welcome to TPT! :icon_mrgr

T5HO lighting is pretty intense; depending on the size of your tank and the wattage of your fixture, you may end up needing to use CO2 and set the tank up as High Tech right from the start. One of the main keys to setting up a successful low tech tank is finding just the right lighting; enough, but not too much.

Do you already have the equipment you listed? And do you know what size tank you'll be working with? And your budget?

We can give ya better pointers with a little more info to work with.


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## avilamillar (Dec 10, 2008)

i forgot to put the filter in my list. ill add it.

I dont have anything listed.

i dont have the dimensions of the tank. what do you recomend me to start (tank, lighting, filter)??

Homer_Simpson: i cant open the Tom Barr's method but the other was very helpful. thanks


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## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

avilamillar said:


> ...Homer_Simpson: i cant open the Tom Barr's method but the other was very helpful. thanks


So sorry, try now.
http://www.barrreport.com/articles/433-non-co2-methods.html


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## avilamillar (Dec 10, 2008)

excelent link... thanks a lot.

so i can have my tank without adding supplements or CO2 right??

only the waste of the fish will feed the plants.

With what tank size should i start? and what lightning because T5HO is too intense and i dont want to add CO2.

thanks


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

You certainly CAN use T5HO over a low tech tank, you just need to plan carefully depending on the fixture, total wattage, and size of your tank. I run T5HO over my own 90gal low tech tank, just can't run more than 108 watts at a time without encouraging too much algae.

What size tank can you afford? And keep in mind, the tank is the cheap part of the whole setup; the bigger the tank, the more you have to spend on the rest of the equipment. Lighting, filtration, and substrate are usually the biggest costs in a planted tank setup (not counting all the plants and livestock...)

As you should know from your SW background, the bigger the tank, the easier it is to get and keep stable.


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## avilamillar (Dec 10, 2008)

Ok, to start i dont want a big tank i was thinking in a 24 inch L tank but im not sure about the W * H. whats the best dimensions for a planted tank if i want a 24 inch L. and in that tank can i have the 24 inch Current USA Nova Extreme 2x24 watt T5 HO 10K/Freshwater or what lightning do you thing would be the best??

I dont want to spend much money thats the reason im planning a low tech aquarium.

thanks!!


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## FastTimes (Oct 16, 2008)

standard 20 gallon tanks are 24", and i think the 15 gallon.


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## BradH (May 15, 2008)

Homer_Simpson said:


> So sorry, try now.
> http://www.barrreport.com/articles/433-non-co2-methods.html


I use this method on my tank. I like it for it's ease of use.


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## avilamillar (Dec 10, 2008)

Ok, so what do you think if i buy:

25G tank (24" x 12" x 20")
24 inch Current USA Nova Extreme 2x24 watt T5 HO
Aqua Clear 50 Hang-On-Back Power Filter (or what do you recommend?)
Seachem fluorite or CaribSea Eco-Complete (wich is the best?)

If the lightning is too intense i can put a hanging kit and rise it.

this is good to start?

thanks


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## avilamillar (Dec 10, 2008)

BradH thats the method i liked more... do you have any problem with it?

Do you thing the lightning in my list is good for this method?

thanks!


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## BradH (May 15, 2008)

I don't have any problems since I've stuck to this method. No algae, plants are doing find and so are the fish, shrimp, and snails.

I think that light is going to be too much, because it's T5HO... if it was regular T5NO, then it would be fine. Let me look for some lights on a few sites and I'll post back.... other people might suggest something also.


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## avilamillar (Dec 10, 2008)

the think is i cant find other frshwater light because the others light have actinic bulbs and i dont know if that will work in a fresh water aquarium... i have those but in mi salt water aquarium.

what do you think if i buy a compact fluorescent light?


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Just replace the actinic bulbs with freshwater ones. That's a fairly common practice for us freshwater folk. I mean, sometimes you can just buy a freshwater version of a given fixture, but a lot of times we just have to suck it up and buy the actinic ones and just replace the bulbs. They aren't expensive, though.


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## avilamillar (Dec 10, 2008)

Ok ill do that... but what is better for a 25G (24" x 12" x 20") low tech aquariums

T5 normal output
T5 High output (this is too intense)
Compact fluoresent

or what fixture can i buy. PC coralife fixture??

thanks!


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## BradH (May 15, 2008)

I can't find one in 24" that wouldn't put out too much light or too little. Maybe someone here will be able to help. I'm still searching for you.


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## avilamillar (Dec 10, 2008)

what i found was this:

24 inch 1x65 Watt Current USA PowerCompact

Coralife 24 Inch Aqualight With 65 Watt 50/50 Lamp Straight Pin Base

24 inch Current USA Nova Extreme 2x24 watt T5 HO 10K/Freshwater

if it is too much light i can put come inches above the top of the aquarium.


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

I would go with this fixture right here. You could technically get by with one of these fixtures, but that's too limiting for my liking. I would go with two of them (at $35 each, it's very affordable) for a total of 54w, which is just over 2 wpg.

These are very solid fixtures and they come in the freshwater versions. How about that?


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## BradH (May 15, 2008)

Church said:


> I would go with this fixture right here. You could technically get by with one of these fixtures, but that's too limiting for my liking. I would go with two of them (at $35 each, it's very affordable) for a total of 54w, which is just over 2 wpg.
> 
> These are very solid fixtures and they come in the freshwater versions. How about that?


I second that. lol I guess I'm loosing my mind. I have the 30" on my tank and it's awesome.... I just looked at the 24" earlier, but didn't think about using 2 of them for some stupid reason.

I would definitely get 2 of those and your good to go. Make sure you get a glass top also to set them on.


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## avilamillar (Dec 10, 2008)

i like it but it wont be to intense? because the Current USA lamp with 2 24 watts bulbs is too intense because they have 48 watts and two of this you showed me will be 56 watts in total.


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## BradH (May 15, 2008)

The Current USA is T5 high output and the Aqualife's are normal output... that is why they are ok for your tank setup.


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Besides, if you're worried about it, you could always just get ONE of the fixtures and see how it works for you. At 1 wpg you won't be able to grow much more than mosses and a few ferns, maybe some crypts. If it's not enough, you could always order a 2nd one. I would recommend, though, just going ahead and ordering 2 of them, because chances are you'll end up deciding that's the right amount of light. And if you order 2, but decide that 1 is enough, well guess what... you'll have a spare light, waiting for a new tank to be put under it!

I really think you'll end up wanting the 2wpg, though, because it opens up the possibilities of plants that will be happy in your tank, without putting you in the CO2-necessary, high-light zone.


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## avilamillar (Dec 10, 2008)

ok... so it will be

25G tank
2 Coralife F/W T-5 Aqualight Double Strip Light-24"
the aquaclear 50 filter


And the sustrate wich will be better Seachem FLUORITE or Caribsea ECO-COMPLETE?

thanks!


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

They are both good substrates. The Eco-complete comes with beneficial bacteria colonies, so it will help a new tank to cycle faster. But it is also known that there are some "bad" batches of it out there, so I almost want to say it might be a bit of a gamble going with Eco-Complete, even though I use it in almost all of my aquariums.

If you go Fluorite, you will need to rinse it A LOT before you use it. Eco doesn't need to be rinsed. Also, Fluorite is a red color, unless you go with Fluorite Black.

Bottom line is, they are both good choices, so you'll be okay with either.


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## avilamillar (Dec 10, 2008)

i think ill buy Eco-complete because the beneficial bacteria colonies. in the weekend ill look for all this things and if in mi LFS if they have all ill assemble my tank in the weekend.

if not ill buy it for internet.

thanks for all the information it was very helpful!! :thumbsup:


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

If you do end up buying your Eco-Complete from the internet, I recommend going to greenleafaquariums.com, because the guy who runs it, Orlando, makes sure that all of his Eco-Complete are good batches. (You can actually tell, by visual inspection, when you know what you're looking for). So you can rest assured that your Eco will be the good stuff.

But if you get it from your LFS, you should also be able to return it to them if it's bad. "Bad" eco complete has several white colored particles, and the particle size varies drastically. The "good" stuff is all black, and the particle size is pretty uniform.

Good luck to you! We want to see pics when you're ready!


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## avilamillar (Dec 10, 2008)

One more thing i forgot haha...

with what fishes, plants, snails, shrips can i start?

i was thinking in some Guppies, Tetras, and i like the ghost glass cat.

but i dont know about the plants shrips or snails i can start.

thanks!


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

I'd stay away from the glass cat until the tank is cycled. Just go with some hardy fish that can handle the fluctuations in water chemistry while the tank is cycling. Guppies are a good choice, of course, and many tetras are too. I've cycled multiple tanks with just 1 school of 6 black neons, and they took it like champs, each time! I've also cycled tanks with bloodfin tetras, before, too. Other common choices are danios, platys, and gouramis. Just make sure that if they are only going to be temporary, that you will have a permanent home to move them to afterward.

Plants, I would say just start loading up your tank with them! Stem plants are preferred at first, so grab a bunch of bunches of rotala, wisteria, baby tears, and/or hygrophila. These are extremely common plants that tend to be found in most LFS's. 

Snails... don't even think about them. They WILL be in your tank after the first time you add plants to it, lol.


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## avilamillar (Dec 10, 2008)

Ok, i can wait for the glass cat 

so with how many guppies or tetras could i start?? (25G tank)

The plants you listed i liked all!! they are nice  but can i add somo of this??

Cabomba
Dwarf Hairgrass or Micro Sword
Java Fern

thanks!!


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

java fern is fine. i'd be a little worried about the dwarf hairgrass and the cabomba. i would also recommend some narrow leaf chain sword.


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## avilamillar (Dec 10, 2008)

ok... i can start with those and when i get more experience i buy the others...
in the weekend i will go to my LFS to see what do they have of that list.

ill let you know. thanks!


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## avilamillar (Dec 10, 2008)

Hi, do you think i should put some root tabs in my aquarium to start??

thanks


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## hamsterman (Jan 17, 2007)

If you do not have plants in the aquarium, I would recommend against adding any fertilizers because you may experience algal blooms.


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## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

hamsterman said:


> If you do not have plants in the aquarium, I would recommend against adding any fertilizers because you may experience algal blooms.


This is *old school *and has proven to be a myth. Tom Barr and others have put this ongoing myth to rest by setting up several tanks and purposely dosing high ferts to see what would happen - algae blooms were not the outcome.

From my own experimentation where I dose ferts daily on my high tech tank and weekly on my low tech tanks, I have not seen algae blooms. It is really about balance and not ferts. As long as you don't go overboard with lighting, regardless of whether your add fertilizer or not, you will not experience algae blooms. Try it for yourself and see. I have!

*Magical Equation for mininimal algae tanks below.*

*Low Tech:*
1.5-2.0 watts/per gallon lighting, no more than 8 hours or split if 12 + macro and micro dosing once a week/daily dosing of Excel for carbon is optional(minimal water changes recommended)+some algae eaters(zebra nerite, otocat, amano shrimp to consume any minimal algae)= minimal or no algae aquarium.

*High Tech*
3+ watts/per gallon lighting + heavy planting of tank from start with fast growing stem plants and some floating plants+ pressurized c02(30 ppm)+Tom Barr's Estimative Index dosing regime+some algae eaters(bristlnose pleco, zebra nerite, otocats, amano shrimp, sae, etc.,)+ 50% weekly water changes=minimal or no algae aquarium.

Having said that some algae is inevitable, particularly diatom which occurs at startup and is easily consumed by otocats, green dust algae which needs to pretty much run its life cycle and will disappear over time, and green spot algae which occurs on plants growing closest to the light.


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## avilamillar (Dec 10, 2008)

ok, then i can put some root tabs befor puting in the plants for a better growing.

today im going to my LFS to see what do they have.

thaks!


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I agree with hamster- I don't think it will accomplish anything to add root tabs before the plants, and could indeed trigger an algae bloom.

(I don't think Homer quite understood what you were asking...)


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Homer, you didn't add root tabs to a tank that doesn't have ANY plants... there were plants in the tank to absorb the nutrients.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

What on earth is the point of putting root tabs into a tank with no plants?

This is what the OP was asking... Homer, you were answering a different question other than the one he was asking LOL


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## avilamillar (Dec 10, 2008)

well ill buy the plants before and then i put root tabs. is that ok??

i went to my LFS and i bought the tank, filter and heater.

it was a package that was on sale.

this is the tank: Aqueon deluxe aquarium kit

but it only has one bulb and ill buy the lamp you recomended me, the problem is that the shipping is very expensive! in my LFS they have coralife PC lights and Current USA T5HO. the dimensions of the tank are 24 x 13 x 17 inches... can i get one of those or do you think i should pay the shipping?

thanks!!


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## waterfaller1 (Jul 5, 2006)

I would get one of these~ :thumbsup: http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsU...4/cl0/coralifefwt5aqualightdoublestriplight24
This is what I am using over my 20L, but the 30" model. My low light tank is mostly crypts, anubias, and a couple others. Shipping isn't really too bad, order a few more things you might need that you won't have to pay more for shipping, and you'll feel a bit better about paying the price. Like some extra bulbs for when you need to replace them. edit: I see now you did intend to get this fixture by Church's recommendation. Good choice.
pics if you like
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/low-tech-forum/73314-scarlet-dreams-20-long.html


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## waterfaller1 (Jul 5, 2006)

p.s. I have two marine aquariums also, for five years..and have found this to be more difficult. I hope you catch on quicker than I did...


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## avilamillar (Dec 10, 2008)

This is what i got:

8 Guppies

Plants

Java fern

Broadleaf anubias

Egeria densa


and i also got a new filter (aquaclear)

later im getting other plants.


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## avilamillar (Dec 10, 2008)

if my guppies are 6 males and 2 females do you think they can breed in my aquarium??

i saw in my LFS that the sell aquarium salt for freshwater... do you recommend to use it?

My aquarium dimensions have changed (Now is 20 Gallons) and i dont know if i still need to buy 2 lamps or only one because i dont want to add CO2

the lamps would be the coralife 24'' aqualight

thanks!!


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## brion0 (Sep 28, 2008)

They will breed. You dont need salt, I've used it to cure ick, it can be hard on plants. Try to get close to 2 wpg. Wisteria is easy to grow in any light, and goes realy good in new tanks. Enjoy your new tank.


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## avilamillar (Dec 10, 2008)

the thing is that the options are:

28 Watts T5 Normal Output---if this i would buy 2 of them (56 total watts, 2.8 wpg)

48 watts T5 High Output------ if this i would buy only one (48 total watts, 2.4 wpg)

65 watts Powercompact-------if this i would buy only one(65 total watts, 3.25 wpg)

What do you think should be the best with the new dimensions (24 x 13 x 17 inches)

thanks!


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## avilamillar (Dec 10, 2008)

Ok i have ordered two of the coralife aqualight T5 for freshwater i want a faster shipping but big als only has one option that is ground... they will be here like in a week. 

One question. its normal that my water is not cristal clear?? when i filled was cluody but now is starting to clear

thanks!


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## avilamillar (Dec 10, 2008)

Photos!!

the day of the mounting:










time later, when the water cleared:






































Today i add some new plants and tomorrow im adding some otos and cories














































What do you thing am i going on the right way??

thanks!


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## waterfaller1 (Jul 5, 2006)

Looks good. I would suggest waiting to add the otos, there's not much for them to eat yet.


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## avilamillar (Dec 10, 2008)

Ok, but what about the cories? can i add it? hom many??

thanks!


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Maybe it's the pictures, but it appears that some of your java ferns are completely buried in the substrate... the rhizome needs to be exposed, or it will die. Other than that, very nice start!


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## waterfaller1 (Jul 5, 2006)

It depends on what type of corys, some get big, some stay small. I have a female and four male corydoras habrosus in my 20 gal long. Make sure to feed them, don't depend on them only for clean up.


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## avilamillar (Dec 10, 2008)

I didnt know that about the java ferns, is for the anubia the same??

i dont remember exactly what where on mi LFS but i think was the panda cory, albino cory

and also i saw some beautiful fish with nice colors their name is red glo fish, yellow glo fish and other, here is a pic:










Do you think i can have those in my tank??

thanks!


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

You're gonna get mixed answers from people about this...

These are fish that have been genetically manipulated to contain the luminescence gene that jellyfish have. I find it to be morally reprehensible, but that's just me.

There are plenty of colorful and beautiful fish out there that weren't made in Dr. Jeckyll's lab.

My advice is to look at a variety of tetra species and see if you like any of those. I personally have a soft spot in my heart for the rasbora species (this includes Trigonostigma, Microrasbora, and Boraras, among others).


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## avilamillar (Dec 10, 2008)

i didn know but im with you, this is morally reprehensible. thanks for the info.


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## avilamillar (Dec 10, 2008)

one more question, how can i attach the java ferns to the driftwood??

thanks!


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Either by tying them with cotton thread, or by using a little dollop of super glue.


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## avilamillar (Dec 10, 2008)

thanks! im going to try, ill let you know. meanwhile i only put them in the driftwood and one on the sustrate


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Looking good! Yeah, the one you placed on the substrate like that is the way to do it... you don't want to bury the rhizome. The rhizome will send out roots, and those will work their way into the substrate, but the rhizome needs to be exposed. If it looks _too_ exposed to you, and detracts from the look of the tank, you can put some small rocks or foreground plants directly in front of it just to hide it.

The super glue method of attaching to wood is very easy... you can apply it underwater and everything... you don't need to remove the wood or drain the tank. Take the fern, put a bead of super glue on it, then place it in the tank, underwater, and roll it around on the wood to break the "seal."


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## avilamillar (Dec 10, 2008)

ok so im going to leave the one i pleaced in the sustrate and if the others on the driftwood moved i use some super glu on it.

thanks!


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## avilamillar (Dec 10, 2008)

More photos, what do you think?? recomendatios...


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## BradH (May 15, 2008)

Nice! I really like it. Great job.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I think it looks nice, too! roud:

I would recommend replacing the Mondo grass (right in front of that arm of driftwood) with an aquatic grass such as E. tenellus or Sagitaria, though- Mondo grass is not an aquatic plant and will die. Plant it in a pot and keep it well watered, or outside in a wet shady spot and it will probably do great, though.


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## avilamillar (Dec 10, 2008)

Thanks for the comments.

so i need to remove the mond grass, ill plant it in a pot 

today have just arrived my new lights and feeder, the lamps were 2 coralife t5 with two 14 watts bulbs each one. a total of 56 watts. but how many hours a day should i put it?










thanks!


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## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

avilamillar said:


> Thanks for the comments.
> 
> so i need to remove the mond grass, ill plant it in a pot
> 
> ...


Personally, I would not leave lights on for more than 8 hours. IME, with all my tanks, low light non c02 and high tech with pressurized c02, I usually see algae issues(usually green spot algae) when I go past 8 hours. You can always increase the time you leave the lights on slowly(30 minutes or so per week) if you find that 8 hours is not enough. The last thing that you want to do is battle algae.

BTW, your tanks look great. Great job!


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## avilamillar (Dec 10, 2008)

Ok so it will be 8 hours a day (10:00 to 20:00) thanks for all the help


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## avilamillar (Dec 10, 2008)

Hi, here are the new pics:

With the new lights:





































opinions??

thanks!


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## avilamillar (Dec 10, 2008)

I saw this babys in my tank. do you think they are guppys?










I also saw this shrip with some green things, i think they are eggs.



















The new inhabitans


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

There's a great chance that's a guppy baby if you've got some females in the tank. And yes, that ghost shrimp is carrying eggs (called being "berried" )

You've got quite a few non-aquatic plants in there, though; I see some mondo grass (2nd pic down) and I don't think that fern in the pic with the male cobra guppy is aquatic, either.


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## avilamillar (Dec 10, 2008)

Yes, i have some females... and the Mondo grass im going to remove it. im just waiting to buy other plant. 

For the new baby guppy and the shrimps should i bought new food?

thanks


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

avilamillar said:


> Ok so it will be 8 hours a day (10:00 to 20:00) thanks for all the help



I think you did your math wrong.


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## avilamillar (Dec 10, 2008)

Yes hehe, i put it from 11:00 to 19:00  i have no algae and my plants are more green with the new lights.

thanks


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