# Weird Algae...3 types...



## fishsmash (May 29, 2008)

I have the weirdest algae on the glass of my tank. I can't figure out what it is. It's purplish-red and looks like slime but not hairy at all. However, there are short(1-4mm) strands separate from this. I'm pretty sure its a different type because it appears to be green (too thin to really tell). These two types grow only on the glass. Also I have green dot algae. It grows on the glass AND sword plants' leaves. All three grow back once I scrape them off with a razor blade. What do I do?


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## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

probably Blue Green Algae and Green Spot Algae. do a research for them. nutrient problem caused these.


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## fishsmash (May 29, 2008)

I thought blue green algae is blue-green. Mine is dark red/purplish. It's hard to remove, forms spotted patches not sheets, and is only on the glass. Blue green algae doesn't have these characteristics.


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## kittytango (May 7, 2008)

Can you get a picture?


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## fishsmash (May 29, 2008)

Here's a pic...


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## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

the pic didn't help either lol...
if it's hard to remove then i'm clueless..


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## fishsmash (May 29, 2008)

can anyone else tell me?


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## fishsmash (May 29, 2008)

Bump


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## kittytango (May 7, 2008)

try this site see if it helps. 

http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/algae.htm#blue

I think it might be the blue green algae which is really a type of bacteria, read it and see if that sounds like what you have. if it is you can use antibiotics (erythromyacin Maybe spelled wrong) to clear it up.


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## kittytango (May 7, 2008)

this site also has pictures of different algae
http://www.otocinclus.com/articles/algae.html


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## fishsmash (May 29, 2008)

I dont think its any of those. Its not cyano because it doesnt come off in sheets. In fact in barely comes off at all unless you use a razor! Plus cyano grows on plants and gravel not just the glass. Plus its reddish not blue-green. Any ideas?


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## fishsmash (May 29, 2008)

bump...


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## fishsmash (May 29, 2008)

anyone?


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## ColeMan (Mar 9, 2008)

okay - the green spot algae is a no-brainer - i just saw evindence of it in my tank for the first time yesterday and, after reading up, it seems like it is cause from either 1) inadequate/fluctuating CO2 levels or 2)phosphate deficiency. 

Although I can't positively ID the other two types of algae you have (I too have a 2"x2" spot on the glass where the green spots have grown some green threads...this is coming off by hand TODAY), my guess is that one or both of these problems may be to blame. what kind of CO2 are you running (pressurized, DIY) and how are you controlling it - are you using a drop checker, are you leaving it on at night and raising the spraybar/adding aeration, or are you turning it off with a timer when lights out? CO2 inconsistency can lead to algae problems, as can nutrient deficiencies or excesses. What about your dosing? What about your photoperiod - how long is it and what intensity? 

Whenever I see algae, I do two things - first I manually remove it if at all possible (or plan to do so ASAP), then I research to see how I can prevent it from coming back...So...try and scrub down the glass to get rid of the algae that's there, and then try adjusting your dosing to see if you can find the culprit - if you can test for phosphates and nitrates, it also maybe worth your time as you can tell exactly (or close enough - test kits seem notoriously inaccurate) where your nutrient levels are and if you need to adjust up or down...


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## AquaShrimp (Jun 3, 2008)

*Interesting Algae...*

Interesting Algae... :eek5: Never seen anything like it...Maybe from overdosing? I guess?


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## fishsmash (May 29, 2008)

This is a 55 gallon tank.

I just got a Nova Extreme 4x54 watt fixture. I replaced the actinics for 6000Ks. I run the 10000ks for 12 hours a day and the 6000s for four hours in the middle of that. I don't know if that is a good idea since my tank isn't heavily planted and won't be until I purchase all the remaining equipment I need to buy.

My co2 is waaaaaay low (like around 5ppm) but thats because I have DIY and surface disturbance from my hang on back Emperor 270. However yesterday I bought a pressurized co2 system on Ebay ($73!!) and will be using it as a replacement for the DIY. 

I will be replacing the Magnum 350 and Emperor 270 on my tank with an Eheim 2217 and a Koralia 2 powerhead.

I use the Seachem dosing guide minus the Excel and phosphate. I change 33% of the water once a week and and replace it with RO water.


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## ColeMan (Mar 9, 2008)

too much light + low/fluctuating CO2 =algae

like i said in post #13, i think your GSA is the result of low phosphates, which would make sense since your not dosing phosphate. Reduce your photoperiod. Increase your CO2 to ~30ppm. Change your dosing. Manually remove any algae you can. Repeat.


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## fishsmash (May 29, 2008)

how much should I reduce the photoperiod for right now? the co2 won't be here for another week and I'll probably be getting phosphate in my next Big Al's order when I buy the filter and powerhead. Should I stop dosing everything until i get the co2?


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Personally, I'd bring the lights down to 6-8 hours. Maybe even 4, depending on just how bad the algae is.

You appear to be in a similar situation with your tank as I am with my 75g in that you've got part of the equipment to go high tech, but not all of it. Unfortunately, you can't mix the two, and I think that's where your problem is coming from.

Notice my sig line. Even though I have a lot of really nice equipment to go high tech, I'm currently not using my bright lights at all. Instead, I'm using an old 30" florescent fixture that usually comes in the kits for beginners. We're talking dim light here. But it's necessary for now.

A tank can be either high tech or low tech, but there's not much in-between as far as lighting goes. If you turn on your bright lights when you don't have enough plants, CO2 and nutrients to go with it, you're just begging for an algae farm. The best thing to do is to remain patient by using dim lighting while you're getting everything ready. Turn those bright lights on only AFTER you have everything else in place. The bright lights are the last thing you add to the system to go high tech.

If you have an old florescent light fixture hanging around, I'd suggest turning your bright lights off completely and using the old fixture. This not only will help with your current algae problems, but it will help prevent further algae problems while you're still working to get everything ready.

Spot algae has already been identified. Any chance the red algae is diatoms? That would be more brownish than bright red. Also, green-blue algae isn't always green-blue. There is a red form, as well. However, to the best of my knowledge, it also has the sheeting characteristic so that would not fit your description. I mainly wanted to mention it to offer more rounded information.

Here is a list of my favorite algae identification pages. Maybe something in these pages can help you figure out what algae you're dealing with. All pages have very good pictures.

http://www.aquariumalgae.blogspot.com/ <-- scroll down for the pictures

http://www.plantgeek.com/article_viewer.php?id=9 <-- click for larger pictures

http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/algae.htm <-- click for larger pictures

http://www.floridadriftwood.com/algae_identification.html

I hope this helps! Good luck with it!


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## fishsmash (May 29, 2008)

I decreased my photoperiod to six hours with an hour long noon burst instead of a four hour one. I still have no idea what type of algae it is but I do know that the co2 system is going to help me out a lot. It should get rid of the stuff. I thought phosphate helps out algae ...I'll go buy some anyways. The last thing I'll need is my filter! Then I can get my high light plants and have a nice looking tank.

One more question...Can I use the Koralia 2 powerhead as a co2 diffuser?


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

May I ask why you're doing a noon burst when (1) you do not have plants that need a high amount of light, (2) you don't have CO2 going, and (3) you're experiencing not one, but three different types of algae?

What do you have planted right now that needs a noon burst?


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## fishsmash (May 29, 2008)

Fine! No more noon burst. I just wanted to get some color out of the rotala I have in there right now. But I guess not anymore...

How about that Koralia 2 as a diffuser?


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Can't answer about the diffuser (Orlando so very nicely is making me a Rex style diffuser — thanks, again, Orlando!).

I meant no disrespect regarding the noon burst, but to have you think about what your main goal is at the moment and how you are going about reaching it. It's no fun forgoing the pretty colors out of plants when you're dealing with algae problems, but the reality is that the algae will take away all the fun of all the plants if it's not addressed. I currently have some beautiful clippings rooting away while floating in my 20L (by floating them, they're getting brighter light than if planted). But I don't dare plant them in my 75g or use my bright lights in my 75g until I have all my ducks in a row.

This hobby is a definite test of one's patience, but when a person is patient and does build a planted tank using care, the rewards are outstanding. However, those who rush many times never get to enjoy the rewards because they're working too hard to fight the problems of having an unbalanced system (light, nutrients and CO2 out of balance).

It's much easier to build a beautiful tank using patience than to fix a messed up tank that was rushed. So, the real truth is that the more patient you are, the *faster* you will be rewarded.


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## ColeMan (Mar 9, 2008)

Complexity said:


> It's much easier to build a beautiful tank using patience than to fix a messed up tank that was rushed. So, the real truth is that the more patient you are, the *faster* you will be rewarded.


Patience is a virtue, unless you're dealing with a planted aquarium - then, it's a necessity. regards to you down in sugar land!


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## stlfishlover (Mar 26, 2008)

ColeMan said:


> (I too have a 2"x2" spot on the glass where the green spots have grown some green threads....


I get this occasionally too, but wasn't sure exactly which algae it was. Is it just GSA that decides to grow hair?


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## fishsmash (May 29, 2008)

Thanks for the advice. I think I'm going to stop dosing ferts until I get the co2. I've just been working on this tank for so long (almost a year) and I just want it done...but I'll keep waiting.:icon_neut


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

I hear your pain, fishsmash. I've taken way too long to get my 75g up and running, as well. But I think as you read posts from others who have rushed and the pain they go through as they have all kinds of problems, it makes waiting not so bad after all.

I have also found that there's far more to it than to just get lights, CO2 and plants. There are all these little details, like drop checkers, filtration, decor, which plants to get, how you'll maintain those plants (stems take a LOT of work), diffusers or reactors, inline heaters or not, which filter(s) to get, what media to use, and then which fish you can get that will not only enhance the overall tank, but are compatible with not just the other fish you add, but also compatible with the plants themselves. And then there are the snails, pH controllers, timers, and just plain wiring of it all! It makes my head spin sometimes.

I started off coming here all raring to go. I'm a reasonably intelligent person. I'm a long time gardener of regular plants, both in pots and in my garden. I had aquariums years ago with great success. What can be so hard about it?

Actually, it's not really hard, but it does take planning. It's like setting up a huge outside garden without taking into account how you'll water it, prune it, keep it fertilized and deal with the common pests that can ruin a garden. None of it is hard, but if those details are ignored, the intended garden not only never comes into fruition, but it is replaced with a never ending stream of problems. That is definitely not the way to go.

Having a real plan of what is needed and then taking the time to put those pieces into place, one by one, until you get it all set up is what's needed. Algae actually serves as an excellent tool. It warns us when our plan isn't going right. If, at any time, we take shortcuts, the algae will appear to tell us what we've done wrong. So algae, is in a sense, our indicator on when we're on the right path or not.

Here's a thread that will really put things into prospective. Consider the time, expense and dreams a person puts into having a massive aquarium put in their home, only to have the plants not grow and the algae taking completely over. And this was a masterpiece. This thread will help to show why it's so important to do our homework before getting ahead of ourselves. I hurt every time I think of what this other person has gone through and is probably still working with. It makes our tanks look like child's play. But it also serves as a very good example of why it is so important to take our time to do it right the first time around. Trying to fix a major problem after the fact can be a nightmare, and the larger the tank, the larger the nightmare it becomes.

This is one person's huge tank of 500 gallons with an additional 400 gallons used for filtration. It had to be extremely expensive to have made and installed, and the upkeep has to be equally as extreme. The tank measures 92" x 36" x 48" (7-2/3 feet long, 4 feet tall and 3 feet wide). Now that is a massive tank! They literally have to dive into the tank like a swimming pool to clean out the algae. I wouldn't wish this on anyone. It makes taking so much time to get everything lined up before turning on the bright lights much easier to accept.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/algae/58303-algae-problems-large-tank-long.html

While our tanks aren't anywhere near the monster size of that one, we could be in the very same situation if we try to rush it. Continue to be patient. In the end, you will be so glad you did!

Go ahead and keep the ferts going, but get those bright lights off. The lights is what makes the main difference. The light is what drives everything.


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## fishsmash (May 29, 2008)

Wow what a mess. I didn't even look at the whole post but it looked like a disaster. I can't wait to get that co2 in. Its a Control wizard .5-5 cubic feet per hour and I hope it will solve my problem. 

I'm going to do a water change tomorrow. I'll scrape as much of the algae as I can from the glass and then siphon it out. It's been ten days...but I can't lift anything heavy since I just got back surgery on Tuesday.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Sorry to hear of your back surgery! That's no fun, to say the least. I hope you recover quickly and certainly.

Yeah, that thread will always remain with me. I truly feel for that person. Their system is amazing! But so are their headaches. It truly humbles us all. And I think it is the best example of what can go wrong and why it is so important to take things very slow and methodically. That's not to say that everyone has to work at a turtle's pace, but that there just aren't any shortcuts.

Cut the lights. Physically remove as much algae as possible. STUFF your tank with fast growing plants. Some plants even have properties that help inhibit algae. I think one such plant is hornwart. It's basically a weed which is exactly what you want. It doesn't even have roots. So you can anchor it down to look like a stem or just float it on top.

The key is to find the right balance between the nutrients, CO2 and light with the light being the most important factor. Remember, the higher the light, the faster everything will go. If you have a balanced system, then the faster the good results. But if anything's off balance, then the faster things will go wrong. So the first step is to keep that light low. Crank it up only after you have everything in place, and even then, you'll have to be vigilant to watch for imbalances in the nutrients and CO2. Keep in mind that the number and types of plants you have is a part of the overall key.

So when you finally do turn your bright lights back on, make sure you have truly stuffed your tank with plants. Then, if all goes well, start removing your "weedy" plants. Work slowly and methodically, making only one change at a time to see how that change affects the overall balance, and if things continue to go well, then keep making your changes until you finally get your final desired results.

One last thing about algae. Not only does the presence or absence of algae serve as an indicator of what to change, if needed, but the _type_ of algae helps to point us in the right direction of what to change. There's a big difference between the presence of diatoms, blue-green algae, hair algae, beard algae and general fuzz algae (not all of those are true algae, but for the sake of conversation, they all accomplish the same goal of giving us information of changes to make). So identification of the algae is important. Once you see algae starting to take over, identify it and then read all you can about it in order to unlock the message it's telling you of what changes are needed.

I'm looking forward to seeing your beautiful tank once you have it all going! I wish you the best of luck! And I wish myself the same luck as I continue to work on my 75g tank, as well! It's so much easier to discuss than to actually do.


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## fishsmash (May 29, 2008)

Thank you so much for all of your advice. I have ceratopteris in there right now and it's growing pretty good. I'm probably not keeping any of the plants I have in there right now for later so I might as well not waste the ferts.
This is my ultimate ambition...








A 04	Alternanthera reinecki "Red"	6
L 17	Eleocharis	2
L 17	Eleocharis	3
E 130	Echinodorus Osirus	1
E 230	Echinodorus tenellus 15-20
M 20	Mayaca fluviatilis	2
M 60	Myriophyllum pinnatum	1
H 10	Heteranthera zosteraefolia 2
H 20	Hydrocotyle leucocephala 4
E 210	Echinodorus latifolius 
Frogbit
Cabomba caroliniana?	2
Decoration: Driftwood and Rocks.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Very nice plan! You're farther than me as I don't really have a plan. I have bits and pieces in my mind, but I don't have the whole thing laid out yet. I'm still working on it as I go.

I'm not good with ferts yet, but I think you may want to go ahead and keep dosing even if you don't intend to keep those plants long term. The basic rule of thumb is the healthier the plants, the less likely the algae. So keep the plants you have now healthy. Not so much because you want them to be a permanent fixture in your tank, but because you want to prevent the algae from becoming one.

What are you using for ferts? The dry ones are very inexpensive, making any "waste" pretty much immaterial. If you're using the Seachem line, they are expensive. They're okay for beginners, but you won't be using them long term because of the expense.

When the lighting issue is under control, the next step is to concentrate on keeping healthy plants. Algae is opportunistic. It grows when _anything_ is out of balance, and starved plants is yet another imbalance.

Focus on the balance. That's the key to it all. You've turned down your lights and have physically removed the algae. Don't make any other changes for a couple of weeks (other than normal maintenance such as water changes) until you can see how the first round of changes affects things. Turning down the lights may have been all you needed. Making more changes, such as stopping all ferts, may create yet another imbalance. Slow and methodical is the way to go.

What is your current watts per gallon ratio with your lighting?


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## fishsmash (May 29, 2008)

I am using the Flourish line, but I don't know where to find dry ferts. Right now I have just below 2 wpg at six hours a day. I'll be gone for the next four weeks starting Sunday, so I'll have to trust my tank to my parents:icon_roll


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Gone for 4 weeks? Yikes! I hope your parents understand how much to feed the fish. Most people who are unaccustomed to feeding fish tend to overfeed which can cause a big problem with water quality. Are you parents going to do water changes, too?

With 2wpg at 6 hour a day, you should be okay without ferts. Since you're going to be gone for so long this is not the time to encourage fast growth. Instead, you want to keep the tank in slow motion, growth-wise, which your lowered light duration will do for you.

I have yet to buy my own dry ferts, but I'm hearing fabulous things about the service from one of our own posters, Orlando. He works for (or is the owner of?) GreenLeafAquariums.com. You can check out this thread and talk to Orlando personally there (and just about anywhere on here!).

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/other-websites/64405-www-greenleafaquariums-com.html

He just recently made my Rex reactor for me. Nice work. He has dry ferts, but he also has something fertilizer related coming up soon, too. We just don't know what it is yet. Get in touch with Orlando, and I'm sure he'll set you up.


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## fishsmash (May 29, 2008)

I just got my regulator off Ebay a week ago. It's a Check Wizard .5-5. But I just got a 15 pound tank today! So I don't know if I should turn the lights back up or just wait until I get back...

The worst part is that I have one day layover at home after camp before going to AFRICA for two weeks. It's going to be awesome but I'm going to have to do some work on that one day (along with packing) or else things are going to get pretty hairy! 

Should I just wait and save the co2 for when I get back? I have it running right now and the flow isn't really steady... How many bubbles per second should I go with? 

I ordered the Rhinox 5000 and the glass drop checker from aquatic magic earlier this week. But I won't be around when they get here. I'm thinking I should just wait for the next six weeks and start it all up when i get back. Hopefully I'll have everyting together then (although I have heard that Aquatic Magic has a bad rep for REALLY slow shipping or not shipping at all. I might not even have the stuff in by then :hihi: )


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Personally, I'd wait. The most difficult time in working with a planted tank is when it's first set up. That's when you need to be there.

Unless your parents share your love of planted tanks and are willing to go the extra mile to literally take over the care (and learning curve) to handle your tanks, I'd hold off until you can be there to oversee things.

What plants and fish do you have?

Do you know of any LFS that would be willing to either service your tank while you're going or, even better, let you bring it to them so they can keep it going in your absence. Of course, they'll want to be compensated but if you have a true LFS (not a chain store) that loves fish, they might work with you.

Also, check with local aquarium clubs. Maybe there's someone living in your area that has the knowledge and desire to help out in ways beyond what your parents can do.

First, give me some idea of the fish and plants you have. That's what will really determine what you need to do to keep them alive and healthy in your absence.

No matter what happens, it sounds like you have one heck of a fun summer lined up! Africa! Wow! Enjoy!


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## fishsmash (May 29, 2008)

Rotala indica, one amazon, two ozelot swords, water sprite, corkscrew vals, cabomba, cardamine lyrata. Really lightly planted right now.

I just found out why the co2 was so variable. A tube wasn't plugged all the way in. Once it was, look out! Way too much. Then I realized that I don't have a needle valve. Soooo I'm definitely going to wait now! Drsfosterandsmith looks like it has the best price. I'll order it and maybe some dry ferts from aquariumfertilizer.com...


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Have you invested a lot in those plants?

And you didn't mention fish. What fish do you have?


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## fishsmash (May 29, 2008)

About fifty bucks. I forgot to mention filiigree myrio, but that's barely alive. I have like three stems. I also have an Oriental sword. I originally had this...http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/234088/product.web

But i couldn't get some things to grow so I'm down to a a handful of plants.

Fish...
6 Black Skirts
6 Serpaes
2 Bolivian Rams
2 German Blues
4 Silver Pencilfish
1 marbled Hatchetfish (had 5, four jumped out even with glass over the top  )
1 SAE
1 Golden Algae Eater Oh geeze I just found that this is a CAE :icon_eek: . Wow I had no idea until just now! Because it's gold..That's why the other one died...:icon_roll How do I get rid of it?
1 oto (had 6, rest died over about two days)
1 clown pleco (my favorite, even though I hardly see him)


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## fishsmash (May 29, 2008)

Ok its been six weeks but almost everything is doing fine. I'm missing the hatchetfish but thats alright. My co2 is now running smooth. The photoperiod has been increased to eleven hours a day with a three hour noon burst. I'm dosing flourish until i run out and then i'll start using the dry ferts (PMDD).

There's one problem. The water in my drop checker is not changing color. It's staying at blue. The water is 4dkh like it's supposed to be.

Could it be that the HOB emperor filter is causing the co2 to escape from the water? Thanks for your help.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

fishsmash said:


> Could it be that the HOB emperor filter is causing the co2 to escape from the water? Thanks for your help.


Definitely. The Emperors cause a lot of surface turbulence that out-gasses the CO2. It also matters what you're using to dissolve the CO2 into the water. The better it dissolves the CO2, the more that will actually be in the water and not just bubbling up to the top.

Sounds like your next step is to get a canister filter, and then you should be set.


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