# Tropica Plant Nutrition+ The All-in-one wonder?



## gagaliya (Aug 19, 2006)

Cost aside, i think this is the only product in existence that contains all macro/micro in 1 bottle, and i understand their iron base is very good that is able to remain in the water column for extended period of time. 

I emailed them and got a response right away, see below:



> I recently bought a large quantity of Tropica PLANT NUTRITION +. I understand the + version contains all 3 macro (NPK), but noone seems to know if it also contains all the micro nutrients.
> 
> My question is do I still need to dose iron and micro (ie: seachem
> flourish) IN ADDITION to Tropica Plant Nutrition +, or does your product contains everything - both micro and macro nutrients.
> ...


I had to order this from UK as no us retail has the + version. Replaced my entire seachem line (npk, flourish, iron) with this single bottle, and i am dosing 1ML daily using the bubble magus in a 15 gallon nano. Will see how it goes. 

I know the price is high, but in the end i think it's well worth it the amount of time and hassle it saves you to dose everything separately.


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## Booger (May 17, 2004)

Let us know how it works. Curious - what was your prior routine?

I stole this from here.


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## snausage (Mar 8, 2010)

I've been using the regular TPN with great results. Aside from using multiple iron chelates, I think the reason why people experience such excellent results is because it contains E123, which is a kelp based food coloring. Kelp is often used in organic hydroponic solutions that receive a similar degree of widespread fanfare.


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## gagaliya (Aug 19, 2006)

Booger said:


> Let us know how it works. Curious - what was your prior routine?
> 
> I stole this from here.


That is a very useful chart! thanks for posting. Looks like flourish contains a bit more trace elements but dont think they make a big difference in term of plant health. 

Prior to this, i dose the usual 5 bottles of seachem (npk,flourish,iron) once a week per the bottle amount, then stopped dosing altogether due to lack of time and plants suffered greatly. 

That's why I got the bubble magus, man it's the best $250 i ever spent, wish someone would advocated the dosing pump more on this board, instead of wasting tons money on all those worthless glass pipes and diffusers.


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## gagaliya (Aug 19, 2006)

snausage said:


> I've been using the regular TPN with great results. Aside from using multiple iron chelates, I think the reason why people experience such excellent results is because it contains E123, which is a kelp based food coloring. Kelp is often used in organic hydroponic solutions that receive a similar degree of widespread fanfare.


Hi, do you dose np separately? and/or any other nutrients? Or just TPN? Supposely if you have a high bioload the fish/food will provide all the NP so the + version isnt really needed, and it's much cheaper since you can just order them from bigals.


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## snausage (Mar 8, 2010)

gagaliya said:


> Hi, do you dose np separately? and/or any other nutrients? Or just TPN? Supposely if you have a high bioload the fish/food will provide all the NP so the + version isnt really needed, and it's much cheaper since you can just order them from bigals.


I mostly just dose K and Fe separately. 

The TPN+ contains such small amounts of N and P that their added effects on plant growth would most likely be negligible if you had a moderate or high bioload, so I agree with your logic.


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## ryanmess (Feb 20, 2009)

Id really like to know how this works out for you. Im currently using yamatogreen witch sounds like a similar product. As it can be doesed like once a week and contains everything or most everything in one. But im not seeing great results. 

Im not home enough for constant dry dosing and water changes. I get the girlfriend to feed the fish and i think thats all she will ever care to do lol


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

I used Tropica for about 12 years and switched to CMS+B, I can tell no differences. Neither could anyone in the local clubs(we must have 600 members, of which 100+ are active).

If you want to doctor CMS+, many add some MgSO4 and then some DTPA Fe (same stuff Tropica uses as one of their Fe chelators), I add 4:4:1 CMS+B: MgSO4(you can add some K2SO4 I suppose as well) and DTPA Fe.

(DTPA Fe) Sequestrene 330 is sold many places and a 5lb bag will last you and few friends a lifetime.

At over 100$ for 5 liters worth of water with a tiny bit of ferts in there........ Tropica is fine if you want to pay more for the stuff. Plants really do not care however.

Super Thrive, kelp extract etc, Fe gluconate, some folks add these just to be "sexy", they do not hurt, but are far from needed.

Tap water in Europe often has a fair amount of NO3 and PO4. General fear based myths surrounding NO3 and PO4 still abound there as well. PO4 and NO3 can be added to suit also, just dose separately or over feed fish more etc. I still dose 5ppm PO4 3x a week and 15ppm NO3 3x a week in addition to a heavy fish load and feeding in my own tanks. Fish and shrimp bred well and have continuously for some time.


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## Booger (May 17, 2004)

plantbrain said:


> I still dose 5ppm PO4 3x a week and 15ppm NO3 3x a week in addition to a heavy fish load and feeding in my own tanks.


I know you own some high end test equipment. Do you test at regular intervals to evaluate uptake?


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## snausage (Mar 8, 2010)

plantbrain said:


> Tap water in Europe often has a fair amount of NO3 and PO4. General fear based myths surrounding NO3 and PO4 still abound there as well. PO4 and NO3 can be added to suit also, just dose separately or over feed fish more etc. I still dose 5ppm PO4 3x a week and 15ppm NO3 3x a week in addition to a heavy fish load and feeding in my own tanks. Fish and shrimp bred well and have continuously for some time.


The tap water in Europe is certainly much different than what we have in the US. A german hobbyist told me her tap water averages 25-30 ppm NO3 in the summer and the TDS is generally well over 600 as well.

However, as far as DPTA is concerned, it's designed for maximum uptake when the growing medium's pH is 6.0 or less. This may explain why many hobbyists report outbreaks of algae when they dose more DPTA chelated Fe. 

TPN contains both HEEDTA and DPTA. HEEDTA makes iron available in alkaline water and therefore could explain why so many hobbyists have reported improvements when using TPN. 

If I remember correctly, TPN+ also contains a small amount of ammonium nitrate, which is more immediately available to plants than potassium nitrate.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Booger said:


> I know you own some high end test equipment. Do you test at regular intervals to evaluate uptake?


No, I do not test unless I have a specific question I wish to answer. 
When I test, I have a purpose and want to gain more knowledge so I do not need to test further, not merely test and give myself more work.

This is not to say I do not still have questions and things I'm interested in.:icon_idea


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

snausage said:


> The tap water in Europe is certainly much different than what we have in the US. A german hobbyist told me her tap water averages 25-30 ppm NO3 in the summer and the TDS is generally well over 600 as well.
> 
> However, as far as DPTA is concerned, it's designed for maximum uptake when the growing medium's pH is 6.0 or less. This may explain why many hobbyists report outbreaks of algae when they dose more DPTA chelated Fe.
> 
> ...


DTPA:

http://www.smart-fertilizer.com/articles/iron

It's good up to about pH 7.5(assuming no CO2 is added), which is about where most folks are at. You might be confusing HEETDA with EDDHA, HEEDTA has a range of about 3-8pH. EDDHA goes up to around 11.

Still, both DTPA and HEEDTA are good for non CO2 and last longer in most aquariums than EDTA, which is the cheaper chelated iron. For us, the cost factor is not that large. They are only a few $ more or less and the amount we might buy will last a few decades. Gluconate is suitable for very soft water. EDDHA is good, but just a little bit will discolor your water, DTPA and EDTA, as well as HEEDTA are not too bad.

The bond strength goes from very weak, like with amino acids chelators to very strong like with EDDHA.

So DTPA might last 2-3 days in solution, whereas ETDA might last a few hours and Fe gluconate might last a minutes in say a KH of 5.

Dose = concentration X exposure time. So while the bond is harder to remove, the Fe is more available over time.

A mix of several chelators is generally better than one, but few notice much differences, they are in fact subtle, they are called trace elements for reason

If you want dosed NH4, feed your fish more.

Claus(past VP of Tropica) mentioned many folks in Europe also do not use CO2 or have fully planted tanks, but still dose for their tanks, things have changed since Tropica master grow came out some 20 years ago. But you simply add more to account for this, Claus was very adamant about folks increasing dosing if they had CO2, more plant biomass etc.


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