# Audioaficionado's 45 Gallon Tall High Tech Reentry



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

This is my 20 year old tank that replaced my original 29 gal my daughter accidentally broke with a step ladder long ago LOL.

Not much to look at. Hard to believe I have a C note invested in it just for the DIY T5NO fixture, 4 dozen real cheap fish and several small plants. Should have gone mail order for the plants. Much better bang for the buck than my LFS.

It ain't an ADA, but It'll do for now on my shoe string budget.

Plants have already grown an inch in a week. Pretty good for only 1W/gal lighting. [STRIKE]I'll get a second dual 21W light strip installed asap after next payday.[/STRIKE] T5HO baby!

*4-22-11*








Tank: 45 gal 36x24x12
Pump: Marineland Magnum 350
Light: 2x F39T5 6500k Sun Blaster strip lights w/reflectors
Substrate: #3 natural gravel w/Tetra Hilena Initial D & 20 yr old mulm
CO2 DIY: 1 to 1/2 bps 24/7

Flora:
4-15-11
Anubias barteri 'Nana'
Cryptocoryne Retrospiralis
Cryptocoryne wendtii 'Tropica'
4-29-11
Cryptocoryne lutea
Microsorum pteropus (Java Fern)
5-19-11
Anubias barteri 'Coffeefolia'
6-28-11
Hygrophila pinnatifida
Limnophilia sp 'Sulawesi'
Lilaeopsis novae 'mini' (mini microsword)
6-30-11
Cabomba furcata
7-11-11
Cryptocoryne wendtii 'Mi Oya'
Cryptocoryne pontederiifolia
Cryptocoryne spirales
Cryptocoryne cordata
Hygrophila corymbosa 'Kompakt'

Fauna:
4-16-11
22x Tanichthys albonubes (white cloud)
8x Danio rerio (Zebra Danio)
11x Paracheirodon innesi (neon tetra)
1x Hemigrammus erythrozonus (glowlight tetra)
3x Hyphessobrycon eques (serpae tetra)
3x Hemigrammus ocellifer (headlight tail light tetra)
4-28-11
5x Otocinclus affinis (Oto catfish)
5x Puntius titteya (Cherry Barb)
2x Puntius conchonius (Rosy Barb)
4-30-11
2x Trichogaster leeri (Pearl Gourami)
5-11-11
3x Gymnocorymbus ternetzi (Black Skirt Tetra)
6-4-11
5x Neritina natalensis sp (Zebra Nerrite snail)
5x Neritina natalensis sp (Ruby or Red spotted Nerrite snail)
3x Crossocheilus siamensis (true Siamese Algae Eater)
2-15-12
Glyptoperichthys gibbiceps (marbled sailfin Plecostomus)

I'm 154% overstocked according to aqadvisor.com LOL.
looks like they just use a rule of thumb of 1 fish/gal.
I had 80 fish in my heavily planted 29 gal low tech tank in San Diego, CA with no issues. Seldom changed my water either.

Wish list:
Pogostemon helferi 'Downoi'
Aponogeton crispus 'Red'
Vallisneria americana var. asiatica
Echinodorus 'vesuvius' (Echinodorus Angustifolia)
Cryptocoryne balansae
Cryptocoryne beckettii 
Eriocaulon sp. 'cinereum'


----------



## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Looking forward to seeing this one grow in. I love 40 gallon tanks. Subscribed. Any long term goals?


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Thanx. I need lots of driftwood for vertical height scaffolding and some taller background and foreground carpeting crypts. Also going to move most of the petrified wood towards the front as the plants will cover it up in the back. Want to get some Anubias all over the DW with their roots hanging down as well as some moss here and there. Gotta get some redline sharks as I've fallen in love with the species. Lots more neons too.


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

I've updated my flora & fauna list with new additions.

Will be getting 2xT5HO 6500 K 36" strip light fixtures and 95% reflectors to replace the crappy T5NO fixture I'm using.

I'm also getting some nice manzanita drift wood from Tom Barr soon.

I'll update the pictures once it's all set up.

Thanx for looking.


----------



## silentcircuit (Apr 30, 2011)

Nice start. Only thing that worries me is the white clouds are cold water fish and pretty much everything else requires a tropical range in the upper 70s to lower 80s F. Their lifespan will be greatly reduced at those temperatures, from what I've read. They're also schooling fish, as are the tetras. Can't tell from your list if you just got one of each or what.


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

I haven't' put in the fish count for each species yet. Will get accurate numbers by next week. Nice dozen and half white cloud feeders and five neons so far. No fish are eating the tinyiest white cloud feeders as long as they get their share of the flake food. Otos are doing a great job on the brown algae/diatoms in just a few days.

I want several Roselines once the plants get thicker.

Thanx for the look and constructive comments.


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Update: Got two new Sunblaster 36" 39W 6500 K T5HO fixtures w/reflectors installed on top of the glass cover 22" from the substrate. They're on separate timers for an 11 hour photo period with a 3 hour overlap burst. I didn't buy 'em from the LFS or OLFS. I got them from a local indoor hydroponic indoor gardening dealer. Better bang for the buck IMHO. Sunblaster strip lights - Nanotech reflectors
 $95 for both sets.
Hopefully the plants will take off more than any algae.

I can't really get more plants until my manzanita driftwood hard scape plan gets implemented.

BTW I'm not feeling too sorry for my white clouds as they were feeders when I bought them. Their somewhat shortened lives should be much better than what their original fate was going to be.


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

I've got some DIY CO2 running to my tank as of today. First day bubble rate is 30 bbm but still rising. I'm not EI dosing, but just want to add some CO2 to augment the usually very low levels found in a tank. I'll work out the ferts later. I just have to keep vigilant on any algae blooming due to the greatly increased light levels.

After going through 2 air stones, I finally found a CO2 diffuser that works well at 1 bubble per second. A bamboo chopstick. Bubbles come out large and fast, but as they quickly start to rise, they shrink almost to mist size and slow way down and start to float around in the water currents. I'll get a proper diffuser or external reactor eventually, but not for awhile. This whole DIY CO2 setup cost me well under ten bux. If this experiment works out, I'll probably move on to pressurized CO2 later this year. So much for my low tech tank status LOL.


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Since I've added those two T5HO lamps and subsequently DIY CO2, I knew I needed some ferts too. Didn't have the time or money to order from online specialty aquarium stores, so I grabbed some Aqueon liquid plant food @ PetSmart. I chose it because it was a quick water column fert and had K & micros. It doesn't have any N or P, but it doesn't need to as my fish are supplying those components. I've noticed my Anubias nana is starting to grow a lot faster. My crypts are slow growers any way, but they are starting to pick up the pace as well. I've also procured a nice large container of Osmocote Plus and will order my polyester braided computer wire sleeving from SVC to make up the substrate fert packets with. I can't stand the thought of all those little resin balls mixed up in my substrate and getting loose in my tank.

Aquarium Plant Food 0-0-1
Guaranteed Analysis
Soluble Potash K2O..................................1%
Calcium ...................................................0.2%
Magnesium (Mg)........................................5%
0.03% Water Soluble Magnesium (Mg)
Sulfur (S)..............................................0.036%
0.036% Combined Sulfur (S)
Boron (B)............................................0.0006%
Iron (Fe)..................................................0.12%
0.12% Chelated Iron (Fe)
Manganese (Mn)............................0.00008%
0.00008% Chelated Manganese (Mn)
Molybdenum (Mo).............................0.0035%
Zinc (Zn)...........................................0.00012%
0.00012% Chelated Zinc (Zn)

Derived From
Muriate of potash, Calcium chloride, Magnesium sulfate, Sodium tetraborate, Iron EDTA, Manganese EDTA, Sodium molybdate, Zinc EDTA

I'll put up new pics as soon as my manzanita wood from Tom Barr is in place later this week. Diatoms or not :frown:

Thanx for looking :fish:


----------



## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Is the wood in the tank yet? I've been catching up on my subscriptions and just saw you've been busy with the tank. I am interested in hearing how the aqueon liquid plant food does. I am glad to see there is more of a market for plants now.

The diatoms will eventually go away. That is a healthy sign in my experience in new setups. It is also the end of the new tank algae.


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

That substrate has been in place over 25 years and has never dried out nor been deep vacuumed of the original mulm. The rust brown crap is slowly getting worse with time. It looks more brown than this pic shows. You can see where the otos have been chipping at it.









I got the bundle of manzanita branches fully saturated and now I need to take it out of the soak bucket and arrange them into an interesting shape using nylon wire ties to hold the branches in place. Then I'll use SS screws to lock it all together. The wire ties will come off just before it goes into the tank. I'll give it another soak day to get some more tannins out.


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Still getting tannins out of the wood. Will let it soak with daily water changes until it slows down. Picked up a real nice 10" long submerged form Anubias barteri 'Coffeefolia' rhizome for $10 at the LFS today. Will attach it to the wood. Beautiful leaves and long roots.


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Got the manzanita hardscape in. Recharged my DIY CO2 batch. Chopstick diffuser works OK, but there is some bubbles lost to the surface. I've planted an Aponogeton Ulvaceus bulb in the left side. We'll see how long this plant takes to out grow its home. Put the Anubias barteri 'Coffeefolia' on the right side with only a couple of pieces of petrified wood holding it down by the root ends. The fish love to swim under the leaves amongst the roots. Put my Anubias barteri 'Nana' up in the manzanita in a crooked nook and also put my Microsorium pteropus 'Java fern' in another manzanita crotch.

I'll update the picture soon.


----------



## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

How is the diatoms doing? Looks like by the picture it's on the last leg. Can't wait to see the manzanita hardscape. It should do wonders for the height of the tank. Have you thought about getting a powerhead to use with co2 diffusion? It would probably help a great deal.


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

*5-31-11*








The only reason the glass isn't green/brown is because I clean it with a nice long handled algae scrubber LOL. My otos try but the algae must not be to their liking. I'm bringing in some reinforcements to deal with it. SAE, Nerite snails, shrimp, etc.

I just planted that Aponogeton ulvaceus bulb three days ago with only three 1/4" long shoots starting out. It will take over the left side in a month at this rate.

Look at what 3 weeks of low 1/2-1bps DIY CO2 + T5HO/ 11hr/day w/3hr burst + modest ferts have done so far. I haven't even planted any root ferts yet nor use EI. Plants have more than doubled their biomass in that time.

I'm starting on my pressurized CO2 system build. Got a nice Victor VTS450D DSR on fleabay the other day. Now I'm working on acquiring the rest of the bits.

I'm looking at power heads, but they are really intrusive unless you get the really expensive units with magnetic coupled compact wet head/dry drive motor. I might just get another canister and put in a spray bar across the back.


----------



## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

So pretty! I like the addition. It gives balance to the tank, doesn't seem so tall now, lol. Look up the Hagen mini elite filter. They are really great and easy to hide for smaller tanks.


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Now I gotta get a bigger tank. 3 sq ft of substrate isn't enough anymore LOL

My crazy Aponogeton Ulvaceus bare bulb I planted 5/27 is already 36" tall x18" wide and is taking up 1/3 of my 40gal tank's total volume. It's flowering too. It sits right over my CO2 diffuser and is sucking up a lot of my T5HO lighting. I had no inkling these things could grow so large so fast.

I need to find it a good home or it gets composted LOL.

I'm getting some new plants from our TPT members.

Lilaeopsis novae 'mini' 'mini microsword'
Hygrophila pinnatifida
Pogostemon helferi 'Daonoi'
Cryptocoryne wendtii 'Mi Oya'
Cryptocoryne pontederiifolia
Cryptocoryne spirales
Cryptocoryne cordata
Cryptocoryne wendtii 'Tropica'
Cryptocoryne "lutea"
Hygrophila corymbosa 'Kompakt'



I also have to get off my lazy butt and finish up my Cerges' Reactor reactor and CO2 system to help push the algae vs plants equation in the positive direction.

*6-24-11*


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

*6-28-11*








My Anubias barteri 'Nana' with spathe in spite of GSA and maybe because of shading by the Aponogeton ulvaceus over the last two weeks.


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

*My Cerges' Reactor 7-8-11*


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Here's an updated FTS. I've squeezed as many plants as I can into the substrate. I've still got some extra bits and pieces from TPT members in SnS deals that I simply can't plant right now. I'll let them float in the left corner soaking up the T5HO light, CO2 and WC ferts until I find another tank to plant them in. I guess it's time to get my brand new $/gal deal 20L QT wet LOL.

*7-12-11*


----------



## WaveSurfer (Oct 3, 2007)

Your tank is turning out nicely! I like how the wood addition helps fill up the height of the tank and giving character to your scape!


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

I made it out of long forked branches of manzanita and used SS screws to cobble 'em together. Had a few branches left over, but sometimes less is more.


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

*My DIY CO2 setup*

3 cups sugar
1 packet red wine yeast
10ml of Aqueon Aquarium Plant Food 0-0-1 (yeast micronutrients)
3.5qts/3Liters water
1gal plastic juice jug.

I run 2 jugs at once through a tall 1 liter water bottle bubble counter/ethanol alcohol vapor trap into my inline Cerges' reactor. I maintain a lemon-lime drop checker color.

I renew each jug every other week for a very steady bubble rate overall.

Even after I get a CO2 tank, I'll keep the DIY parts for when my tank runs dry someday. Shouldn't be very often at only 2bps LOL.


----------



## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Your tank is looking lovely. The only thing I would change is adding a background, as I am never found of tanks without them. But that's only a personal preference.


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

I've got some awesome shots of moss and lichen covered basaltic rocks I recently got on a local hike. I'll post 'em up soon and ask for people's opinions. Then I'll just PhotoShop 'em for perfect contrast and composition, resize for my tank's exact back glass area and covert to .pdf format so my local print shop can make me a custom laminated background.


----------



## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Okay, Steve. That is ingenious. I love that idea. I didn't even realize it was possible to do such a thing. You've just opened my eyes up to a really great idea. Thanks!


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

I'm not going to publish the full resolution pictures online, but if you see something you like, I'd love to send you a copy for your personal use.


----------



## demonr6 (Mar 14, 2011)

Send full res over this way. If you PM me when you have them I will provide you an email addie or if you manage to post them full res I would love the link.


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

This won't be right away, but I'll most likely do it as a RAOK. I just don't want to find them getting traded or posted around the net without my express permission.


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Well I've got plenty of CO2 now. DC is bright yellow (not a hint of green) with two new gallon jugs of yeastie-beasties fermenting away. Too much I think as my fish aren't hungry at all today when they've always been ravenous before. I've pinched off the hose of one jug and cracked the lid to vent it until the fish get hungry again. I'll note the DC color and try and keep it there.

2bps is too much, but 1bps isn't enough. That's the problem with DIY CO2. I can't wait until I can finally get my pressurized CO2 system finished and stabilize the CO2 levels at optimum to reduce algae issues related to this nutrient.

I assume it will take weeks for the algae response. My GDA+GSA issue is an annoyance but not a crisis for my tank. Looks kinda ugly, but fauna and flora seem healthy otherwise. I don't want too much light, but need enough to help keep my stems from getting too leggy.

BTW even my bottom Cryptocoryne wendtii are pearling today. You can see the bubble trails from across the room. My Anubias are too.

I've got to get my 20L set up as that tiny ball of floating extra plants you see top left in my 7-12-11 FTS update have quaddrupled in size and are shading my choice Hygrophila pinnatifida, Cabomba furcata and Hygrophila corymbosa 'Kompakt' stems. It's amazing how fast tiny baby crypts can grow floating at the top of a high light tank. My floating bits of Lilaeopsis novae 'mini' (mini microsword) has gone from 20 nodes to well over a hundred now. It's growing much faster than the substrate planted nodes.


----------



## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

Very nice setup, I am almost there on my pressurized CO2 just need the tank now and to complete the Cerges which will most likely be this weekend. I may get the tank Monday if I remember.


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

$200 more and I'll have my 20# CO2 tank, EI ferts and Python water changer. Traffic ticket and dentist come first


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Just got my VTS450D based CO2 system running a couple of days ago and now my pressure relief valve just popped open and I can't run the regulator until I plug it 

Why does this crap occur on the weekend? However I'm glad I was right next to it when it happened and not while we were out of the house for the day so my cats didn't get gassed from a 20# tank discharging unattended.

Off to find a 1/4" NPT plug.

BTW I did Bettatail's dual stage reg pressure test and it passed with flying colors the other day.


----------



## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

Major bummer, but great you were home at the time.


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

1/4" NPT plug to the rescue


----------



## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

Awesome


----------



## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Looks like it's progressing nicely, hows the Cerges reactor working, is the gas getting totally disolved???


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

150EH said:


> Looks like it's progressing nicely, hows the Cerges reactor working, is the gas getting totally disolved???


100% efficiency even at 4bps. No bubbles get out. I'm not sure shutting off the CO2 at night is such a good idea. By the time the photo period starts up again, the drop checker goes from lime green to forest green. I'd just as soon keep it yellow to lime green.


----------



## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I use the CarbonDoser which is pretty much the same and it works well, I like to turn it on a hour before the lights come on to let it build up a little, my plants pearl all day everyday. I also use an air stone at night (bottom, back, 28 inches long) as soon as the lights go out and again shuts off a hour before lights on when the CO2 comes on, my plants and fish respond well to the added oxygen in the water, some of the fish like to sleep in the bubbles kinda like a sauna for us I guess.

It's been a while since you've posted a pic????


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

My surface agitation is so good that I lose half of my CO2 during the dark period. When I was doing DIY yeasti-beastie CO2 24/7 that wasn't an issue. Once I can get it safely dialed up to yellow/lime green, I'll be happy. When it's yellow even my slowest growing plants are pearling so much you can see the bubble streams from across the room.

My tank @ 3 sqft just doesn't have enough substrate area to scape it the way I'd like it. I'll have to get a new FTS soon. Right now I'm having shade issues from that little bit of floating plant extras that have grown so thick that it's covering the left 1/3 of my surface and causing the stem plants under it to get kinda leggy. I'll just have to figure where to cram 'em in and take the shot this week. Got some mosses to attach to my manzanita too.


----------



## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Tall tanks are always hard to plant but are good to use floating plants and fish that like to swim at different levels, but the biggest problems is you can only reach the bottom during a water change.


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Yeppers... It's time for my next 50% water change this week.

Gotta order my EI ferts and Python style water changer asap as I hate the bucket brigade.


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

:icon_cry: Crap! Most of my Hygrophila pinnatifida just melted. Too much shade?


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

*Update:* Trying to get some EI ferts ordered today so I can match the light and CO2 levels and get everything to optimum health.

I also noticed some new BBA on some of the floating plants. Just a small amount, but hopefully not the seeds of eventual destruction. I've tolerated the GSA as it wasn't killing the plants, just makes them less attractive. The GDA isn't a problem. Otos, SAE and Nerites keep it in check. GSA is more of a hassle as it is hard to even scrape it off the glass.

I'm leaving the CO2 on 24/7 now and the DC is lime green and holding steady. Plants pearl and stream bubbles during the 10 hr photo period. I'll try and nudge the DC to more yellow over the next few days. Don't want to screw this up for the fish's sake.

Got some work to do before I can post a FTS update this week.


----------



## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Your just going to make them grow faster and get more gsa, you'll be amazed (well I was) as it seem totally backwards to me, but after you start to dose the gsa will just start to clear. 

This is the last EI dosing formula that plantbrain posted, it's been working good for me.

EI dosing for a 50 gallon tank:
2-3x a week:
1/2 teaspoon KNO3
1/8th teaspoon of the KH2P4
I think he meant KH2P04
Add K2SO4 after water change, say 1 teaspoon

CMS+B, I'd add 1 TABLE spoon into 500mls of water, 1 teaspoon of MgSO4(Epsom salt), dose 15mls 3x a week

The only thing I'm doing different is using Barr's gH Booster instead of the recommended K2S04.

One of my next projects is to up my lighting with 2 bulbs that have been out for a while and my plants should start growing like crazy.


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

I just ordered the CSM+B, NKP, Iron Chelate Combo Pack (Shipping Included) for $30.00 @ Bob's Tropical Plants aka *mgamer20o0*.

I'd have liked to have also gotten the Ca & Mg to make my own Barr's gH Booster utilizing the K2SO4 that comes with Bob's fert combo. Shipping's a killer this month so I'll get the rest of the stuff locally or wait until next month. 

I also want to make my own DIY Tropica Master Grow mix using CSM+B & DTPA iron.



plantbrain said:


> You can simply use both and add about 1:4 ratio of DTPA to CMS mix.
> 
> Covers both bases that way.





plantbrain said:


> ...We can add little spike of DTPA to CMS and it's pretty much like Tropica.
> Claus Christersan who use to work for Tropica developed it and said the same things I am. This way the product can work well in soft, moderate and harder waters. Plants can use the easy stuff and then take up anything that's left later.
> 
> Dose = exposure x concentation
> ...


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Well I've been running a full high-tech regimen for almost a month now with limish-yellow DC color CO2 levels and EI ferts. Plants didn't suddenly explosively grow as most of them are slow growers and were running at max speed already. I hope that GSA goes away since it is too hard for the otos or SAE to scrape off. Any GDA should be easy for them to handle. I increased my photo period intensity a bit more. Now I'm running each light 7 hours a day instead of 6 with a 4 hour overlap burst period over the same 10 hour total photo period. I'll post a new FTS and my CO2 setup this week.

I only have a couple Hygrophila pinnatifida plants out of 9 left after the meltdown. I had a nice jungle going on the left side with a bunch of them. The floaters shaded most of them out. I'm also losing the last couple of Pogostemon helferi 'Daonoi' I have left. Must not be enough light next to the slightly overhanging crypts and tank center cross brace shadow where I had to shoehorn 'em in. I'm hoping the EI ferts, CO2 and extra light can pull 'em out of the grave.

I now wish I had a 40B instead. Once I get the stand built, I'm gonna get one and put my 20L under it on the shelf. Both tanks have an open top without any cross bracing which makes for good top viewing and easy access.

Every tank I really like and admire here have similar L:H dimensions of 2.5:1. (20L, 40B, 120P, 75, 150). I'm pricing some 150 tanks at my LFS. 60"x24"x24". That would give me 10 sq ft of area to work with and still not be too big to work on. He's retiring this year, so I'll have to get something ordered soon by November sometime before he has his going out of biz sell off if he can't sell the business. I wish I had the $65k to buy it and a healthy wife to help run it.


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

*10-13-2011
*







*
My pressurized CO2 build hanging off a 20# tank.*







*
Too fast to count. ~4-5 bps.*


----------



## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

It looks nice and I like the driftwood, I know it's been in there for months.

Those bubble counters are so small they don't work for old people (me) so I use a Canada Dry Club Soda bottle and a Bic pen for a bubble counter, along with some internet stop watch. I don't have a solenoid for on/off so I have gotten used to setting the bubble count by eye, plus I like having 1 bubble per 8 to 15 seconds at night, not that it makes a difference.

Whhat did you get out of this Fe argument, would you mind taking a look, thanks.

BTW your do for an update photo with a new CO2 rig and ferts, I hope they are helping but sometimes they are slow to respond.

Edit: that's a good link for the DIY Tropica Master Grow


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

ray-the-pilot vs Tom Barr. Hmmm... let me think about this...
One nano second later... I went with Mr Barr's advice 



plantbrain said:


> Which type and what is the alk of the water?
> Also, can you assume that it was not simply removed by the plants?
> 
> Regarding the chelator, yes, plants can take the Fe out of the chelator, strong bond energy requires more energy from the plant, but relative to the overall energy, budget, this is a very minor issue. The main issue is the Fe in solution and/or in the sediment pore water and not precipitated.
> ...


 What I got out of Tom's advice was DTPA Fe has a wider pH range and KH range that it remains stable for some days rather than just hours. So I wouldn't be concerned what time you dosed it or even less than once a day. I just mixed mine with the CSM+B : DTPA 4:1

My bubble counter is only relative to my setup so I mostly use it as a quick glance to see that the system is working. I figure it's running around ~5bps. I slowly got it up to a rich yellow with just the slightest hint of lime green color. My needle valve holds the rate very steady. Once I get it set over several days of very slow tweaking, I lock the NV ring so it won't change even if bumped. In other words I adjusted the CO2 based on DC color and fish behavior. My pH is 6.2 and the KH is 5 degrees. I don't like the day/night pH swing I got when I shut off the CO2 at night. My slow growers don't use it all up anyway like a bunch of stems would. I have the solenoid hooked up to act as a safety shut off during a power failure when the filter canister would be off and no surface agitation to keep the CO2 losses at an equilibrium and O2 diffusion at maximum.

That photo is the latest update as of two weeks ago. My plants are mostly slow growing and don't show changes very fast. I'll put another one up in a week at the beginning of November.

BTW you ain't so old sonny


----------



## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I just checked your profile and I think you might have me beat in the age department :icon_wink, I'v been married 25 years but didn't get married until I was 26, so.......I have two kids that won't grow up 22 & 25, hey I've been married 25 isn't that strange.

I take all advise with a grain of salt, it's rare here for folks to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth. :angel:

Sometimes it takes the plants and tank a while to respond, my rescape wasn't going well at all this spring, did I forget everything I ever learned, no just "old tank syndrome" but here lately it has taken off becaused I added more light. I was trying the good CO2 and low light method and gassed my fish for the first time ever, I tried this for 4 months without any success then I added 2 more 96 watt bulbs taking me from 2.15 wpg to 3.43 wpg and it made all the difference in the world. Dispite what some will tell you light is the single driving force in plant growth and everything else is secondary, but if the don't grow they don't eat and all the ferts and CO2 go down the drain in the water change.

BTW I have 2 more slots available for bulbs for 4.29 wpg, that's the way I used to do it and the plants were growing like crazy, Tropica recommends up to 6 wpg.


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

The wife and I are at 32 years now. Kids are 31 & 28 and still living at home too. I guess it's a lot harder to launch out of the nest these days. I was making it on less than $5/hr when we first got married. Slept on the floor on a dumpster dive mattress and garage sale table and chairs. Now you can't make it on one minimum wage job like we did back then. Thank God our modest house has been free and clear since '95 or we'd be living in our car or worse today.

With your tall and wide tank, I can see why you need more light. My tank is too narrow and the foreground substrate doesn't get enough light when the background and midground plants start to fill in. If I crank up the light any more, I start to get too much algae in the top half of the tank. I want at least a 75gal or better yet a 5x2x2 150gal.


----------



## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I only have algae problems with low light, and some plants demand it but I won't go with anymore light than I have currently. My S. 'porto velho', E. 'vesuvius', B. carolinia, A. crispus, & L. arcuata, all responed to the light within a week with new growth, and a flower. Maybe there is something to that high kH and plant not taking in Fe or other nutrients because if I don't have high light to make the plants hungry, I'll always start getting algae from dosing EI so there must be excess nutrients floating around in there with lower light and I never can get away with the amounts others are dosing. 

That would be a nice tank, I was looking at yard sales and Craiglist for tanks and have pasted up a couple good buys but you should be able to find something like that for a good price if you keep on the hunt. My LFS has a 180 that 84x24x20 that looks beautiful for $1449.00 with the perfecto hood and light, but the stand is extra.

That's why I want to do a Wasserpest plywood tank, the Starphire glass is only $210 + $60 for delivery, that's cheaper than he paid in 2009 I think or very close, but the whole tank, stand, lights, filter, custom drain/fill should be around $1K and I can do a little at a time, I've told my wife what I like to do and so far all systems go, the question is what wierd thing is she going to ask for, and will it be worth it.


----------



## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Hows the tank coming Steve, any updates, I'd like to see how dosing and CO2 is going for you. I've been dosing 12 ml of my Fe solution daily except for the one day before the weekly water change and its really helping my plants, but the extra light really did it for my tank before there wasn't enough growth to eat the ferts.

Oh, I did a little creative finance work and I'm going to order my RO/DI unit as well, I hav been waiting a long time. I have also always wanted the CarbonDoser electronic regulator and there's one for sale in the SnS but you can't have everything, plus his price is a little high for an older unit but he claims it's new.


----------



## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Steve it didn't dawn on me until you mentioned it on plantbrain's thread, you have got manzanita growing near you. If so you should be selling this stuff on the SnS it would more than fund anything you need for your tank and put some food on the table. I just sent plantbrain a $100 for a big piece and he still has to let me know about the shipping but it's going to be $50 or so. It took me a long time to find a piece I liked because at every pm the reply would be I just sold it, so the market is hot.

I gor rid of my airstone at night as it was causing mold on the back of my valance from the splash of the bubbles popping, and with my new filters and plumbing installed I did'nt really need the help anymore, but I use a DIY bubble counter because the larger size makes it easy to count and only turn it on every morning an hour before lights on, I think it's to much of a waste runnig the CO2 24/7 and almost like having 3 photo periods a day so your bottle will empty too quikly.

Btw I've been dosing 12 ml of Fe everyday and it has really helped my plants green up and look a little better.


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Well I just introduced 8 juvenile Amano shrimp to my tank. Lets hope they find good hiding spots and grow fast enough to avoid any predation. They're pretty fast and I keep my fish fairly well fed. I kept the smallest 3 for my shrimp bowl, but it's getting cold in the house and I don't have a heater for the bowl. I may sneak 'em all in the 45 tonight while the lights are off. CO2 has been off for a few days now as I didn't want to gas my new shrimp like the new otos I just got last week. Seems new fish that aren't accustomed to high CO2 can die while the long term residents are used to it and have no problems. I'll try and get some more otos at Petsmart so I can get them acclimatised to the tank before I slowly start the CO2 back up again.


----------



## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Do you have something in the tank that will eat them?


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Two Puntius conchonius (Rosy Barbs) like to pick around at the substrate and might go after them if they see them. I don't think my pair of Trichogaster leeri (Pearl Gouramis) would go after them unless they swam right in front of them as they primarily hang out towards the surface. The rest of the fish like blackskirts or serpe tetras aren't as big.


----------



## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Can't we all just get along, yeah I've got my own problemed fish that snack on others.


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

The Amanos seem to be hiding (I hope) and as they grow large enough to flick crap back at any of my fish, they'll come out prancing in the open. The largest one has already done this the day after I put them in. In fact he/she must have molted as it's 1.5 times bigger than it was when I put it in. Looks like I need some fire red cherries too. Getting kinda cold to ship now, but I'll see how it goes next payday. Slowly brining up the CO2 as it's forest green now. Also got 5 more otos and 10 bloodfin tetras. The bloodfins are an amazing schooling fish and stay in a tight formation and are very active swimming back and forth. Even more active than my Zebra Danios.









http://www.fishprofiles.info/bloodfintetra.jpg


----------



## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

audioaficionado said:


> The Amanos seem to be hiding (I hope) and as they grow large enough to flick crap back at any of my fish, they'll come out prancing in the open. The largest one has already done this the day after I put them in. In fact he/she must have molted as it's 1.5 times bigger than it was when I put it in. Looks like I need some fire red cherries too. Getting kinda cold to ship now, but I'll see how it goes next payday. Slowly brining up the CO2 as it's forest green now. Also got 5 more otos and 10 bloodfin tetras. The bloodfins are an amazing schooling fish and stay in a tight formation and are very active swimming back and forth. Even more active than my Zebra Danios.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice looking fish and a good pic of them also.


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Not my pic, but one of the better ones I found in Google images.


----------



## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

They are nice looking fish and I like to have at least one nice school that stays together well. 

The USPS got all my packages delivered in 2 days, they were just the small box $5.20 ea and 0.70 for tracking, but from MD Monday morning at 11:15 am I shipped and they were all delivered by 2:30 pm on Wednesday, to CA, KY, GA, MI, & NY I think. I was really impressed with the quick delivery and everyone liked their new plants too, so my first sale worked out good, I've got more ready if you want some Steve.

The reason I mentioned all that above I know you live a lot farther north than I but you should be OK with shipping shrimp, just do it quickly before the holiday log jam starts to build, then it's no shrimp til spring.


----------



## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Steve how do you like that solenoid? I have finally decided to splurge on a good regulator set up and it so hard to pick what you want, for year I was sure it would be the Carbon Doser regulator but now that I have the cash it seems to lightly constructed for the price.

When are you going to give us some tank updates?


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

The Mouse solenoid is great. Low power usage and stays cool even under a 24/7 continuous cycle.

My tank is not to my liking at all because of some black/red BGA. I don't have the bux to deal with it right now, but the fish seem OK with it. All my Nerite snails died off within a month late last fall. Might have been that BGA or something else. However their friggin' eggs are still persisting on my manzanita LOL. I only have one shrimp left. My serpae tetras might be the culprits.


----------



## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I'll keep proding but I'm sorry to hear you are still having problems as am I with the same algae. I liked that little solenoid but I am a little Chicken so I am going with the Burkert, I think. I hope you are able to get it back in order soon, good luck.

Yes the may well be will only a few species of Tetras being really gentle enough to group with shrimp, I think my shrimp will be seperate from here out.


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

150EH said:


> I liked that little solenoid but I am a little Chicken so I am going with the Burkert, I think.


Why are you afraid of the Mouse solenoid? What's better about the Burkert?


----------



## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I have no idea, I'm just more familiar with the Burkert. Steve did you try ERYTHROMYCIN in your tank for the Cyano, I have it to and according to all the article it's in poorly maitain water with high heat and low flow, so I'm thinking what the hech mine is none of that but I'm ready the try the meds but have no idea how much to dose and they all claim it will kill your nitrifying bacteria if not used properly, do you have any advise. I'm about ready to remove all the flora and fauna then pour in some bleach.


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

I just got 4 days worth of Marcyn at Petsmart yesterday. This Monday is zero day after my weekly 50% decant. By next Monday I hope to still have all my fish and none of that black scourge. I'll be doing ammonia monitoring twice daily for the rest of the week. I'll keep the CO2 going to buffer the pH slightly acidic to keep the ions as ammonium.


----------



## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I just wanted to warn you Steve, I have lost 3 Rummy's today, 2 with Pop Eye, another is in my nano getting treated for Pop Eye, and my 6 year old SAE has a bloody streak on his dorsal fin. My water is sparkling clear with no nitrites or ammonia, and 5 ppm or less of nitrates, and all my other parameters are normal.

Let me know what you make of this as I have no idea if there is anything I can do, my feeling is these fish were already carrying some bacterial infections on the Gram (-) side and the Erythromycin just exposed the weak link in their defense system, if that makes any sense.

My tank how ever is free of Cyanobacteria, also today one of our members that is very knowledgeable noted this quote "Just so you know, cyano-bacteria often occurs when your nitrogen levels get out of whack, either too high or completely depleted. After treating, your long-term solution may be to dose more/less KNO3 to keep it from coming back. Especially once you add CO2 and drive the growth of your plants..."

I think those are words of wit and I will drop my dosing amounts slightly because I thought I had been overdosing anyway.


----------



## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

The pic I saw of you tank looks good. I am guilty of not reading the whole thread, and I am going to act like a kid and ask for an updated one.:biggrin:


----------



## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Update.... Update..... Update..... he won't show us Cable, I've been pestering him for a long time and I understand the feeling too.


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

OK I'll get you one tomorrow right after my tank decant when everything is all pearly and the fish are happiest.


----------



## cableguy69846 (Dec 13, 2010)

150EH said:


> Update.... Update..... Update..... he won't show us Cable, I've been pestering him for a long time and I understand the feeling too.


We may break him down now that there are 2 of us asking.:icon_lol:



audioaficionado said:


> OK I'll get you one tomorrow right after my tank decant when everything is all pearly and the fish are happiest.


WE DID IT!!!!:biggrin:


----------



## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

No he's going to let it slide back in the pages where nobody will bother him?


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

I've got to wait until dark and no ones glued to the tube watchin' Netflix.

It's gonna be ugly, but my tiny spiral rogue hitchhiking snails seem to have an appetite for that black sandpaper algae. Nerites were too busy laying ten thousand useless eggs on my wood to be bothered with it prior to their demise all within a few months.


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Here's that FTS of my tank with all its warts showing. 
Netflix is being reflected in the background as usual LOL.

*2-23-2012*








Here's some up close and ugly black algae shots of my Anubias barteri 'Nana'








Here you can see the new plecos have been busy as this was solid a week ago.








A shot of my Anubias barteri 'Coffeefolia' with that algae, however some of it has been scrubbed off too thanx to my plecos. One of them left some exit rope LOL.








This is obviously true algae as the Maracyn had no effect on it. It also doesn't mind shade one bit.

Here's a semi crappy snapshot of my wife's new angel fish. Of all the angels in the tank at the LFS, this was the only one that reminded me of Altums. He/she keeps those fins erect and proud all the time.


----------



## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Please don't take this the wrong way but, you need to do a major overhaul on your plants bro... all those blackened leaves are as good as dead. I'd just clip them all off and leave only the good leaves. This will promote new healthier growth. What are you using for CO2? Are you dosing anything? How long has it been since you've cleaned your filter? 

Sorry man, It's been a while since I've been on your thread...


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

The plecos have actually exposed some green live leaves under that black crap. I don't know what kind of algae it is, but it's red-black, tenacious, short and rough as sandpaper. I'll clip a lot of leaves off fairly soon after I give those plecos some more time to work it all over. I clean the filter once a month. Use pressurized CO2, EI dose for a 40-60 gal tank, do 50% weekly water changes, have HLD with my two T5HO lights on the glass cover and an 8hr photo period. I think since all the plants are slow growers, they just don't compete with the algae like fast growing stems will. I'll have to drop the photo period even shorter or just put two T8s instead for a low light.

I eventually want a 6' long tank and those 36" T5HO lights can be used there.


----------



## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

It's most likely your lighting igniting that algae fire. Raise up your T5's at least 3' from the substrate. Good luck bro! At first I thought that was BBA, but I'm not sure what algae that is... I've never had it before.


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

It might be a short BBA mutation. It doesn't mind shady areas and grows fine in the dark areas. The places it grows the best are on the slowest growing Anubias plants.

I get some GDA on the upper tank walls every week, but it scrapes off easy enough. I'll try dropping down to 6hrs and see how that works.


----------



## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

If I were you I woud: Stop dosing Ei. You've got a bunch of slow growers and EI is setup for faster stems. You have no nutrient export. Algae IS your nutrient export. I would also get a bottle of Excel. If you stop doing EI it might actually help you. Do a whole tank treatment with a double dose. Do a WC the next day. Then after 3 days, spot treat the areas that didnt die with your filters off for 15 min. You can AGAIN use up to a 2x amount. Do a WC the next day. I would try to tweak you Co2 until your fish dont like it. Watch it each day. Fish will acclimate to higher Co2 after a week and you can up it again. I run a 12 hour photoperiod on the same lights. DONT decrease your photoperiod, move your lights up. But thats just me  Slow growers dont follow ALL of the high tech rules. they are slow growers and not high tech, but you can grow them that way if you like.


----------



## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Speedie and Chad have given you a few good ideas, no need to dose much there, and a major redo would be wise/give you a chance to really fix issues and scape and redo the plants.

Most of the species are lower light slower growing, they can be grown in high light tanks but need more shading and darker spots, more biomass over all.


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

chad320 said:


> If I were you I woud: Stop dosing Ei. You've got a bunch of slow growers and EI is setup for faster stems. You have no nutrient export. Algae IS your nutrient export. I would also get a bottle of Excel. If you stop doing EI it might actually help you. Do a whole tank treatment with a double dose. Do a WC the next day. Then after 3 days, spot treat the areas that didnt die with your filters off for 15 min. You can AGAIN use up to a 2x amount. Do a WC the next day. I would try to tweak you Co2 until your fish dont like it. Watch it each day. Fish will acclimate to higher Co2 after a week and you can up it again. I run a 12 hour photoperiod on the same lights. DONT decrease your photoperiod, move your lights up. But thats just me  Slow growers dont follow ALL of the high tech rules. they are slow growers and not high tech, but you can grow them that way if you like.


You mean double the daily Excel dose right? I've read too many sad stories where people doubled up the initial dose and had lots of dead fish.

I have the CO2 up to lime green and even yellow with a 4dKH/indicator solution in my DC. I have some shrimp in the tank and don't want to gas them. I was running CO2 24/7 for several months, but have set the timer to turn on 90 minutes prior to photo period and off 60 minutes before end of photo period. All my dead Nerite shells are dissolving away only a few months after they died. So there must be a decent CO2 level and 6.2 pH that's doing the job on them.

I also have extra circulation from a Hydor Koralia 425 nano unit mid to low level. My Magnum 350 flows across the top for some good ripple and back down the opposite side. the 425 nano is on the opposite side blowing back towards the Magnum intake/output side.

I'll do some major triming of the overgrown stuff and see what happens. That Java fern has gone nuts and has roots going everywhere. Maybe I should just ditch it and get some more Hygrophila pinnatifida to grow in the wood.


----------



## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Yes, for clarification on my part, the Daily amount, not the initial dose.


----------



## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I used Excel to help clear my algae but I did it a little different, I use double the daily dose for a week, the whole time cutting out the worst leaf on each plant daily, then I do my water change (50%) and let the tank rest for a week, I also did the spot treatments with the filter off but only on driftwood, filter intakes, etc. but not close to plants.

After a week with no Excel and continued trimming most of the plants have several new leaves but my slowest growers are Crypt wendtii which are like rapid growth next to Anubias so you might have to adjust these intervals. But I'll go back to the Excel if need be for another 5 to 7 days and just repeat the process trying to kill the algae without getting the plants used to the Excel and the Crypts will melt with continued high use.

Steve you need to save for 2 bags of AS and all your problems would be over, I think.


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

I just dropped $300 on this Samsung Galaxy 5.0 for my wife while very slowly typing this post LOL. Now I can get a huge tank of my dreams without a hassle when I get some more $$$$. I think I'll get Taptalk to make posting easy when we're out and about using WiFi.


----------



## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I use a Tracfone so I can spend more on fish, get your priorities in line man!!!


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

150EH said:


> I use a Tracfone so I can spend more on fish, get your priorities in line man!!!


It ain't a phone LOL. It's Samsung's answer to a bigger and better iPod Touch. Much better IMO.

Now my wife's happy. That comes first if I want to be happy too :wink:


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

OK I've picked up a pint of Excel. I'll double the daily dose (not the 5x Seachem recommended initial dose LOL) this Saturday and check on things the next day. Monday is my 50% decant day anyway. I'll wait a few days before I dose the whole tank again. I'll also start the methodical black leaves pruning. That Java fern is gonna really get dethatched as well.


----------



## JosephS (Feb 6, 2012)

I did that trick also. Had the same stuff plus sum BBA and others. Iv been using a full cap of it 6 days a weak (Sunday is tank day in my house) for about 3 months now and the only algae I think I have is GSA on my glass and slow growers. I see its been sum time sence you posted that. How is the battle going? O!! I also have a 45 tall.


----------



## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

audioaficionado said:


> OK I've picked up a pint of Excel. I'll double the daily dose (not the 5x Seachem recommended initial dose LOL) this Saturday and check on things the next day. Monday is my 50% decant day anyway. I'll wait a few days before I dose the whole tank again. I'll also start the methodical black leaves pruning. That Java fern is gonna really get dethatched as well.


I have no idea how I've managed to miss so much in your thread.

FWIW, I agree with Chad and Speedie. One of the best things I ever did with my tank when I changed over from all stems to slow growers like ferns, crypts, etc., was to cut back on the lighting. I raised my fixture as much as I could inside the canopy and even though it was only 4 inches I still think it made a difference, but the biggest thing was getting a fixture with separate cords and switches for each bulb. This lets me have an 11 hour photoperiod with 2x54 for 6 hours and 1x54 for the other 5 hours. I also played with the dosing, gradually cutting back until I would notice the plant growth affected.
Knock on wood, I have to say algae has pretty much disappeared other than a small tuft or two of BBA on the driftwood once a month or so and a really small amount of GSA on the glass occasionally.

I hope I didn't ramble too long, but I thought what has worked for me might be of some help to you.


----------



## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

How is it coming?


----------



## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Any updates Steve?


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

I'm running an experiment by letting my plecos just eat that black crap. So far they've done a great job and most of those black leaves are still alive under it. The leaves don't look real pretty like Tom's and Nick's meticulously scaped tanks though. I've got a lot of trimming and thinning to do, but everything is healthy albeit overgrown. I'll get some pics of my formally black Anubius plants so you can see the before and after pleco effect shots. Thinning out the crypt runner shoots and most of the Java fern thicket. I'll take it down to an LFS and see what kind of store credit she'll give me. Then I'll post up some updated shots this week.


----------



## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Not much will clean those leaves up other than some Excel consistently maybe.........I'd trim and wait for new leaves to come in.


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Excel @ 2x7 days didn't even make a dent. I don't know what the maximum safe crypt/fish dose would be for a week, but the initial dose is stated at 5x by Seachem. No way would I even consider that much for more than the first day. I could try shutting down the tank circulation and spot Tx some individual leaves to see what happens, but that's more hassle than It's worth IMO. A thin and trim sounds like the best option like you and Nick said.


----------



## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

i spot dose excel on old anubias growth, works really well for me.


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

@[email protected] said:


> i spot dose excel on old anubias growth, works really well for me.


What's your preferred method?


----------



## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

I do the same thing Steve. I use a syringe and turn off the pumps for 15 minutes and shoot it right on the target spots. Be careful not to shoot more than the double dose for your tank. You can find a syringe at any pharmacy. They use them to feed babies medicine.


----------



## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Steve if you tried 7 days of Excel with no ill effects I would try again and double up on the length and go for 14 days.


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Well I could try spanking it with 4x on day one and 2x for the next 13 days.

Or

Just get the 2x tank daily dose into a syringe and deftly nail several Anubius leaves each day for two weeks with the pumps off for several minutes, then turn the recirc back on.


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

I did a major de-thatch of my Java fern, thinned out a few Cryptocoryne Retrospiralis & Cryptocoryne Spiralis daughter shoots that popped up in front, one well rooted floating Hygrophila corymbosa 'Kompakt' and a huge wad of a floater I have that has small round leaves with white stripes down them and spreads like cancer. Got $25 store credit for a bunch of weeds LOL. 

I'm still working on my Anubius leaves. I don't want to just chop them all off or the rhizomes will look naked for a long time. I'll try the Excel spot Tx method at 2x the daily tank dose and see what I can salvage of them before I trim off the the lost causes. The plecos have already scrubbed off 80% of the solid black algae off the leaves, but I still need to get them closer to 100% clean to restore their original beauty and luster.

Wish I'd taken a FTS before the de-thatch, but it looks a lot more open and brighter. That Java fern was humongous.


----------



## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Have you made any head way?? I think it's just old algae the has crusted up but with daily attention it should be good by now. 

Got Pics???????????????????

My tank is doing better but progress is slow, I just keep plugging along with cleaning, Excel, and water changes and it's slowly getting better. I think the constant and very stable amounts of C02 is helping also and I try to keep my mosses trimmed and any loose plant debris vacuumed up, I seem to be winning, knock on wood.

No RO yet, Steve. But I have mowed my grass twice and the first one was a month early, beds mulched and pruned, I sprayed my weeds and put down some ferts, and the lawn is looking good. We really got clobbered with Chickweed and Onion from the early heat but I got it covered and after a million other projects I'll get the RO installed.

BTW I'm into my second 500 ml bottle of Excel, each bottle gets me 16 days of treatment and at a double dose the ill effects are not appearing, before I got just over a triple dose and plants were melting so 30 ml per application is working well but I might go a little higher for the last couple days when I near the end of this bottle.


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

I haven't really been using anymore Excel Tx. I've been letting my 3 plecos have a run at it and they've really done wonders for that black plague. It isn't all gone, but a 95% reduction looks 100% better than leafless Anubius plants.

I decided to get some new fish in my already somewhat overstocked tank. Picked up 8 Roselines at PetSmart for $36. Couldn't pass up that bargin as I don't know when, if ever, anything that good will come to my backwater town again. If so, then I'll get some more 

I'll do a little tank cleanup this weekend and put up some pix of my new friends and their new temporary home. I'll be getting a larger tank in a month or two as these guys will quickly outgrow this tank. Hope to eventually have a couple dozen and some pure Altum Angles as the main fauna in the new tank.


----------



## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I'm not going to insulate the holding tank other than get it off the floor and I'm not sure if that is a good idea because the concrete may help the water stay cool enough to use in the summer. The garage does stay much cooler than the outside temps in the summer so if the water is 75 to 78 that would be ideal, but I did get a 300 watt heater for just 55 gallons of water so that may be enough to raise the temp slightly in the garage during the winter, but if it becomes a problem I'll just use a thin piece of hard styrofoam that no more than a half inch thick to break the thermal transfer.

How is your tank and I know you are wanting a new larger tank too so I hope you get it.


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

My roselines are busy swimming around. They're starting to explore the whole tank. Not just the top third clear area. They're gonna be some fun fish for sure. I want a large tank soon so I can get it all set up and cycled for them and the dozen more I'll be getting LOL. I'll probably get some rummies too, but they do sort of look very similar to the roselines. Cardinals would be very nice, but if I get some tank raised Altum angels, the cards will all get eaten I'm afraid.


----------



## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I like Angels and the Halfbacks in particular but I would want an Angel tank where I could breed and not worry about them eating everything, I'd also like a Pleco tank because I just fell in love with those long finned albino bristle nosed plecos that Wkndracer keeps but with the same options to breed and sell. At some point I still want to try the plywood tank and my largest fish will be a Rummy because I want to have tons of Shrimp and I will start the tank with shrimp and small non aggressive fish like Green Neons. 

I really hope you are able to get a large tank Steve, I've been looking at Acrylic because it's so much cheaper and clearer than glass, not to mention light and easy to drill. It does scratch but I've found some products for the Harley's windshield that buff scratches and yellowing right out, so that's not a big deal if you treat the tank right from the start.


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

If I went with plexiglass, I'd want a minimum of 3/4" thick. I've seen the 1/2" tanks bubble out mid panel on the long runs. Not bowing, but actually bubble out in the middle between bottom and top.


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Well this tank's been up for a year. Still like it overall. It's overstocked at the moment, but all those plants keep it from crashing and provide the fish with enough hiding spots to get some alone time if they need it. I've been derelict in keeping this thread up to date with new pictures.

Getting ready for a larger tank in a couple of months. Seems summer is a good time for CL tanks to get posted cheap since people want cash or are too busy outside to futz with 'em anymore. The only problem I see with a 200 gal glass tank is the 350 lbs the dang thing will weigh empty. How the heck am I gonna move that sucker without a truck and several strong friends. A 125 I can manage myself if I had to. Saw an interesting 96"x20"x24" 200 gal acrylic for sale. I could also lift that sucker myself.


----------



## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Even a 125 is too much for you to manage, my 150 is very heavy and even with it's short length it was difficult with 4 people because only 2 can hold on while going through doorways or when placing the tank. I picked my tank up at Petsmart so there were plenty of guys to help load it into my truck, then at home I asked my neighbor and he had a couple of helpers so after a while we all got together and brought it in, but it was very hard. Make sure you place it with plenty of space behind the tank to install a background or run plumbing because once it's full there's no moving it! You don't have to sweat the install or I should say be in a hurry because it can sit outside until you have enough muscle to get it in and the only damage will be some extra cleaning.

I got my copper feed installed to the RO unit today and drilled the hole for the heater and installed it, tomorrow I will start to fill it so I can deal with any leaks and have the time to fix them, I did fill the copper with water this afternoon and I had zero leaks from the joints and only a small leak form a valve but I'll just need to tighten a packing nut to stop that, so I should be OK.


----------



## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I just checked the Marineland site and a 125 is 160 lbs. but it's so long and awkward you need 2 people, my tank is 219 lbs. and a 220 was 394 lbs. that's some weight and it needs to be supported or you could crack the tank or compromise a caulk joint. I don't know if you've ever seen this but there are some "as seen on TV" store and they carry some furniture straps and sliders that could be a huge help on a large tank install.

If you wait until the second week in August I could leave Sturgis and head up to Oregon to help you carry it in, but then you have to let me stay over for a week to explore the Northwest on the Harley???


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Sturgis huh? Have fun. I've never done anything like that, but I don't own a Harley either.


----------



## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Steve it's too bad you don't live in my area, there is a Marineland 125 that has never been used on Craig's list for $200!!!!!


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

I was involved in a car accident last week and my out of pocket expenses ate up all my tank money. :icon_cry:


----------



## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Very sorry to hear that Steve. Hope you & family are ok.

(Return that Galaxy?)


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

I'm fine, the car is fixed, but the night crossing pedestrians got banged up. They all got bruised and skinned up, but no serious injuries. I'll have to wait for the other shoe to drop on this one. They didn't speak any English.


----------



## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Glad to hear nobody was badly injured. Who's fault was it?


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Well I didn't get a citation from the police woman who happened to be following me and witnessed the event, but with ambulance chasers all bets are off. If they are illegals, they will most likely drop off the radar asap. I dunno about the ultimate legalities, but I'm just happy no one got killed or seriously injured. That would be very hard to live with no matter who was found at fault.


----------



## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

The other shoe finally dropped:

They ended up retaining one of those personal injury lawyers so now my insurance company will duke it out with him. Fun times will be had by all :icon_roll


----------



## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

Ugh, lovely


----------



## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

That stinks but that's why we paid premiums for all these years and for a single incident they should have you covered. I hope it all goes well and they don't trouble you beyond the original statement, good luck.


----------



## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

Steve - Time for some pics!
:smile:


----------

