# Tahitian Moon Sand or Eco Complete?



## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

After a post on what colour i wanted for my substrate my question now is tahitian moon sand or eco complete? I've heard good reviews for both.


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## mpodolan (Mar 27, 2007)

Whichever looks better to you. They can both work fine


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

but whats better is what i want to know. (i think i might go with tahitian moon sand because it's cheeper)


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

TMS is inert- won't provide any nutrients at all to the plants.

Eco however has a good nutrient content for a substrate.

I'm personally probably going to swap out my unopened bags of Eco for Fluorite, however; CaribSea has been having some product quality issues and the stuff in my bags doesn't look like it should IMO.

I'd go with Colorquartz over TMS any day. Much cheaper. Not sure if you can get that in Canada, though?


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

don't know i'll check on ebay lol.


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## mpodolan (Mar 27, 2007)

Better in what sense? There are lots of factors people consider important when deciding on substrate. You can grow plants just as well with inert substrate as you can with fortified substrates if you dose the water column. Plants can take in nutrients from leaves, as well as roots. If cost is important to you, then the cheaper substrate may be "better" for you.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I've never seen it on Ebay. 

www.3M.com and you need to put in your location to see if there's a pool supply company near you that carries it.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

it "probably" will if i can get it lol.


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## MOsborne05 (Jan 7, 2007)

I prefer TMS over Eco simply for the color really. TMS is black, where Eco is more of a gray color. I just think that the black TMS really makes the plants & shrimp stand out in the tank.


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## Ozymandias (Jan 17, 2008)

i don't particularly like the new eco and sort of interested in to the black Fluorite sand and would like to try that out some time


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## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

Ozymandias said:


> ...interested in to the black Fluorite sand and would like to try that out some time


I would definitely go with the black fluorite sand. It has the same grain size as Seachem Onyx Sand but the color is better than SOS and unlike SOS it won't buffer the water to a higher PH(IME, using SOS did not negatively effect my fish or plants despite any buffering, perhaps because I used a dusting of peat underneath it).

Here is what I found. I am not saying that you will find the same thing. I set up two tanks. One at home and one at work. In one I used a cap of Tahitian Moon sand over leonardite, mulm, and peat moss and in the other I used a cap of Seachem Onyx Sand over leonardite, mulm, and peat moss. The plants and lighting in both tank was the same, and excel was used as a carbon source. Both tanks got a pinch of phosphates, nitrates, potassium, and seachem Equilibrium with weekly water changes.

Plants grow well in both tanks and continue to do so, but seem to be doing a little better in the tank with the Seachem Onyx Sand. The tank with the Tahitian Moon Sand developed diatom algae over the same period, but the one with the SOS did not. No big deal. I threw in a Amano Shrimp in the tank with the Tahitian Moon Sand, and he made short work of the diatom algae within a few days. My catfish also develped barbell erosion in the tank with the Tahitian Moon Sand, but I am not sure if the Tahitian Moon Sand caused this as some as that barbell erosion in catfish results from bacterial infections. Plus, that catfish was pushing 9 years, so he may have died regardless.

Tom Barr seems to like Fluorite Black Sand and he has tested many substrates and set up many tanks. If I were confronted with the choices, I would go Fluorite Black Sand.


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## Ozymandias (Jan 17, 2008)

Thanks Homer. I'm using eco know but mot completely satisfied with it I'm going to have to brake down my tank at the end of the school year and take it back home so i think I'll try the Fluorite Sand then.


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## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

SS-Honestly I would say go with TMS. Plants grow well in sand plus it looks nicer IMO. And dosing the water column would be just as suitable for most plants.


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## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

Ozymandias said:


> Thanks Homer. I'm using eco know but mot completely satisfied with it I'm going to have to brake down my tank at the end of the school year and take it back home so i think I'll try the Fluorite Sand then.


You're welcome. Big Als seems to have a good price on Fluorite Black Sand. 
http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsU...ffers=&merchgroup=&isManufacturer=&pageLimit=

I am not sure what they charge for shipping. But if shipping charges are reasonable, then the $15.99 for 7 kg bag may still be reasonable. It would probably still end up less costwise than the Eco-Complete and perhaps less than or same as the Tahitian Moon Sand. Even for those substrates, you still likely pay the shipping charges by weight.


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## PasD (Sep 2, 2006)

I would go with Eco because its meant for planted tanks.


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## Wö£fëñxXx (Dec 2, 2003)

Don't use pure TMS it is to fine for a healthy planted tank.
The substrate is very important and needs to be more
course than moon sand. EC any day, or Flourite, SMS
or Aqua soil.
Eco is good stuff, you don't need the liquid they ship in
the bag, you need the substrate.


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## firefish62 (Jan 22, 2004)

What is "SMS" I keep seeing on here?....tagging along doing substrate research. I've had good luck in the past using 50% flouralite and 50% playsand....with some pea gravel here and there for looks. I like natural look.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Soil Master Select

Manufactured as a soil amendment for athletic fields; helps prevent the soil from compating (promoting good oxygenation, root growth, etc), and has a good CEC (absorbs nutrients from the water column and holds them for the plants in an aquarium setting). Runs about $15-20 for a 50lb bag, order from www.Lesco.com (the distributor) and pick up the bags at John Deere stores.


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## firefish62 (Jan 22, 2004)

Sounds good, I'll have to look into it. Thanks for the link.


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## firefish62 (Jan 22, 2004)

Have you used it yourself?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

No, I decided I wanted to go with a heavier weight substrate more black in color and that would provide nutrients. (ADA AquaSoil was out of my budget, too) I'll be using black Fluorite, mixed with Colorquartz (similar to TMS) to cut cost.


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## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

I am reading more and more horror stories of people not being able to keep deep rooting plants anchored in SMS(Soil Master Select), so I think that all the hype around SMS being the best substrate around is beginning to subside as more and more people experience this. Some folks claim to get around the problem my mixing laterite with SMS or capping laterite with SMS as the laterite helps anchor the plants down by the roots as the plant roots begin penetrating the laterite. Personally, I would not use SMS on its own. I would save my money and go for Aquasoil given the importance of a good substrate and the fact that it will likely be a one time expense, or alternatively black fluorite sand which has been extensively tested by such gurus as Tom Barr and have been found to work really well.


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## Wö£fëñxXx (Dec 2, 2003)

Homer_Simpson said:


> I am reading more and more horror stories of people not being able to keep deep rooting plants anchored in SMS(Soil Master Select), so I think


With a bit more experience you will then know
that means that their substrate is not deep enough,
Therefore eliminating the need to think.


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## Buc_Nasty (Oct 22, 2010)

I initially put flourite black sand in my 90g for a few weeks. It had a grayish look, not pure black -still looked good though. I saw TMS in a LFS and it looked a lot more pure dark black so I switched. 

I recently upgraded to an ehiem 2262 on this tank - I have the spray bar aimed across the surface of the tank. On the opposite side of tank from spray bar, the TMS drifts very badly - its too light so after a couple hours the tank bottom is down to glass, and big drifts have accumulated, screwing up the whole flow of the tank and leaving dead spots for the large amount of oscar waste in my tank to accumulate. 
I have tried using plants, wood, rocks, etc to stop the drifting, nothing has worked. 
I'm going to switch to either flourite black sand or just flourite black gravel, not sure yet (sold my old black sand but not sure if it will have the same drifting problems or if its heavy enough to stay with the 2262.)

To give you an even better idea on the drifting - my hydor koralia NANO makes this sand drift, even if i point it parallel to the sand about 6 inches off the sand. Its very light.


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