# Active Substrates and Walstad



## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Flourite isn't an active substrate.

There's no benefit of using an active substrate on top of soil. If you're going to use an active substrate, just use an active substrate. It's generally too light and non-compacting to be of much benefit to prevent anything in the soil from flooding the water column. People use active substrates because they provide everything one needs in a substrate.

If you want to use soil, use soil with a topper like fine gravel or sand.


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## DaveKS (Apr 2, 2019)

Here’s Diana’s thread on using safetsorb with soil.

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/100-low-tech-forum/1296333-humus-binding-sts-clay.html


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

That's a great thread, @DaveKS.

I'd say OP could ask Diana questions directly... but a couple members were straight-up asses to her and she's unfortunately stepped away from the forum.


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## Tiger15 (Jan 7, 2018)

If you grow plants in inert media (sand and gravel), you are by definition growing them hydroponically relying on water for all nutrients. You have to regularly dose the water column to sustain growth. EI is essentially a hydroponic culture as it doesn’t require active media.

The Walstad system grow plants in active media (soil) where the nutrients come predominantly from the substrate, and partially from the water column. Eventually, the nutrients in the soil will run out, and you will need to either replace with new soil or dose the water column. In the latter case, you are reverting to hydroponic culture. 

All aquatic plants can uptake nutrients from the water column. It’s a myth that heavy rooters such as sword and crypt are heavy root feeder, but in reality their huge roots are developed to anchor in fast moving water than to feed. The chief benefit of active media is carpeting plants as many reported that they spread faster in active media, and at no choice if you use DSM. The chief draw back of active media is that dirt is dirty. Setting up a large volume of dirt in a big tank is a dirty job, considering that you will need to disrupt the dirt to replant many times in the future and replace exhausted dirt every few years


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Active media, in terms of the modern hobby, refers to substrates like ADA Aqua Soil Amazonia, UNS Controsoil, SL Aqua, Red Bee Sand, UP Aqua products, et al. "Active" in that they actively buffer water parameters by absorbing kH to lower pH, creating acidic conditions for plants - and in many cases dwarf shrimp.

It'd probably be better phrasing for us to point out that Cryptocoryne can pull nutrients via their roots and their leaves - not that they feed more heavily one way or another. Because they can, indeed, pull in tons via roots. That's not a myth. It's just a "myth" that they _only_ feed one way or the other. I've grown Crypts in Aqua Soil tanks with next to nothing in the water column that blow my mind. I've also grown them in tanks with sand and water column dosing that are equally impressive. And, admittedly, I've occasionally tied crypts and swords to chunks of lava rock so I could easily drop them behind hardscape where I couldn't easily get them buried in substrate and they did really well for several years.

Crypts grow in rivers and streams, so they do need well-developed root systems for anchoring and nutrient-hunting. But some of those habitats eventually dry up or flow slows, nutrients become sparse on occasion in the water column and they begin to rely on those well-developed root systems to feed. In instances where streams disappear on a seasonal or semi-regular basis, those plants also take in water via their root systems.


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## Tiger15 (Jan 7, 2018)

I think there is a confusion on the definition of active media. The OP referred to Walstad method which is based on nutrient rich soil aka active media in my definition. Your definition of active media is buffering media that will lower pH to benefit soft water fish and shrimp, not the same thing the OP is referring to.

Your explanation on root versus water feeding makes sense. Aquatic plants have the flexibility of nutrient uptake from both roots and water column and not just one or the other. All aquatic plants can be grown hydroponically, meaning that water column dosing alone is sufficient for vigorous growth regardless of substrate. Obviously, if you use DSM with no free water, you need nutrient rich substrate to succeed.


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## GadgetGirl (Oct 11, 2013)

somewhatshocked said:


> That's a great thread, @DaveKS.
> 
> I'd say OP could ask Diana questions directly... but a couple members were straight-up asses to her and she's unfortunately stepped away from the forum.




WTF? Diana is active in the El Natural forum at Aquatic Plant Central. Head on over there as she’s well respected there.


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## Streetwise (May 24, 2019)

I work from the DW textbook.

However, that forum gives me more browser warnings than this site, which is still more than I get from my other hobby forums, (https://www.kvraudio.com for example.).


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

somewhatshocked said:


> I'd say OP could ask Diana questions directly... but a couple members were straight-up asses to her and she's unfortunately stepped away from the forum.


I believe this was the thread. What can we do to bring @Dianna Walstad back?


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## xjasminex (Jul 26, 2011)

somewhatshocked said:


> That's a great thread, @DaveKS.
> 
> I'd say OP could ask Diana questions directly... but a couple members were straight-up asses to her and she's unfortunately stepped away from the forum.




This is so unfortunate, as someone who read her book many years ago I was elated to see her on the forum. She has so much knowledge and practical experience. I couldn’t have achieved what I did with past tanks without her. =[


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

somewhatshocked said:


> That's a great thread, @DaveKS.
> 
> I'd say OP could ask Diana questions directly... but a couple members were straight-up asses to her and she's unfortunately stepped away from the forum.


And it's that type of disrespect and elitism (or whatever you want to call it) that does way more damage to this hobby than helps.

Shame on whoever was rude to her.


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## philyoosays (Sep 30, 2019)

somewhatshocked said:


> That's a great thread, @DaveKS.
> 
> I'd say OP could ask Diana questions directly... but a couple members were straight-up asses to her and she's unfortunately stepped away from the forum.


I actually moved to this forum from another forum because people wouldn't answer simple questions like "When am I done with cycling" and would post replies like, "Stop doing what you're doing and get a filter."

Even on this forum, I get a lot of people who think I'm ignorant, stubborn, and stupid. But the other forum was way worse.


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## nothreat33 (Aug 5, 2019)

somewhatshocked said:


> That's a great thread, @DaveKS.
> 
> I'd say OP could ask Diana questions directly... but a couple members were straight-up asses to her and she's unfortunately stepped away from the forum.


What happened now?


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## fpn (Mar 28, 2018)

Tiger15 said:


> I think there is a confusion on the definition of active media. The OP referred to Walstad method which is based on nutrient rich soil aka active media in my definition. Your definition of active media is buffering media that will lower pH to benefit soft water fish and shrimp, not the same thing the OP is referring to.
> 
> Your explanation on root versus water feeding makes sense. Aquatic plants have the flexibility of nutrient uptake from both roots and water column and not just one or the other. All aquatic plants can be grown hydroponically, meaning that water column dosing alone is sufficient for vigorous growth regardless of substrate. Obviously, if you use DSM with no free water, you need nutrient rich substrate to succeed.





somewhatshocked said:


> Flourite isn't an active substrate.
> 
> There's no benefit of using an active substrate on top of soil. If you're going to use an active substrate, just use an active substrate. It's generally too light and non-compacting to be of much benefit to prevent anything in the soil from flooding the water column. People use active substrates because they provide everything one needs in a substrate.
> 
> If you want to use soil, use soil with a topper like fine gravel or sand.





philyoosays said:


> Any Walstad experts here?
> 
> What are your thoughts on using active substrate as opposed to the usual gravel and soil substrate? Specifically Fluval Stratum or Seachem Flourite.
> 
> What are your thoughts on active substrate on top of soil (for the co2 production)?


So there are many people who use a layering of substrates and incorporate an organic potting soil / dirt layer into it.

For example I have capped my dirtied tank with ADA Amazonia: http://imgur.com/a/NY6raYz

Not a walstad tank because I inject CO2 - but you could run this as a low tech walstad tank as well.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

That's definitely part of it.

For clarification: People weren't just rude or disrespectful to her. They were nasty. 

I've communicated with her, as have others, and she says she may return at some point. But there's unfortunately a small contingent of a few members who are consistently nasty to other members on the forum. Not exactly the kind of reception one expects to receive when having what should be a friendly discussion.

I'm sure if she receives encouraging private messages, she'll likely see them and feel more welcomed. I'd love to have even a small percentage of the knowledge and experience she has.



Edward said:


> I believe this was the thread. What can we do to bring @Dianna Walstad back?


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

somewhatshocked said:


> That's definitely part of it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I hope I’m not overstepping my boundaries by asking this, but has banning those certain people been a consideration? It must get to a breaking point where keeping the peace is important.


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## ursamajor (Oct 6, 2015)

somewhatshocked said:


> That's definitely part of it.
> 
> For clarification: People weren't just rude or disrespectful to her. They were nasty.
> 
> ...


I dunno. She posted a lot of blanket statements that were just demonstrably untrue. I would expect that to elicit a strong response. When an experienced member politely challenged a point, she suggested that member wasn't bright enough to understand her book. I would also expect that to elicit a strong response.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

@varanidguy: Some have been banned, yep.

@ursamajor: You're absolutely correct - you don't know because you don't have access to the full thread(s) involved. So, respectfully, you are unable to fully see what occurred in order to develop an informed opinion. There were remarks removed as they appeared that occurred over an extended period of time. Not just in a single thread. Not just publicly.

And a "strong response" is not the same thing as deep, direct, nasty personal insults. Some current and former members were downright disgusting and degrading. 

.....

Now, get back to the topic at hand.


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

fpn said:


> For example I have capped my dirtied tank with ADA Amazonia: http://imgur.com/a/NY6raYz
> 
> Not a walstad tank because I inject CO2 - but you could run this as a low tech walstad tank as well.


 Is there other reason for covering “dirt” with “dirt” than price?


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

Edward said:


> Is there other reason for covering “dirt” with “dirt” than price?


I would theorize that the high CEC of the aqua soil would be great at transferring and holding otherwise loose nutrients from the dirt.

I believe Dennis Wong uses dirt along with aqua soil as well, providing a ridiculous amount of nutrients to his plants and runs extreme levels of PAR.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

For a carpet capping dirt with AS is a great idea. You get the burst of nutrients without the mess from regular soil.


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## fpn (Mar 28, 2018)

An organically active layer in a low tech tank should give you CO2 from the organic processes.

The aquasoil is a backed / sterilized product - there is no claim that you can get CO2 from aquasoil that I am aware of.


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## sbo80 (Oct 13, 2019)

as another example about crypts, I have a bunch doing quite well as a floater. It was a trim from another tank but I ended up just not replanting it, and it's doing just fine. I think it's a green wendtii, but all the new leaves come out a very pretty pink since it's sitting about 3 inches directly under the light. A second neat consequence is some java moss that was stuck around the roots has filled out as well into a puffball. The shrimp love it. This tank is basically a walstad/low tech with a strong light. I don't dose anything except feeding the fish and the substrate is small rock gravel. But it's also light on plants at all, just glosso and a few anubias with a single madagascar lace.


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