# Getting into CO2



## RyanMan (Sep 14, 2013)

Hey guys, I've been interested in adding CO2 to my tank for some time now (I just needed a job first to save up some money). I have been reading all the excellent articles on Barr Report, and I have to say I agree with one point. Getting into CO2 can seem overwhelming! I learned about all the parts and how I could build a system to save money, or just buy a pre-made system from somewhere (such as GLA). I have a few questions though. I'm wondering what I should get for my tank in your guys' opinion. I have a 54G Corner Tank with a AquaClear 70 on it (Thought I'd mention that because of the importance of flow). I'll attach a picture for better understanding. Any advice would be appreciated such as diy or pre-made. And depending on which option, which parts are considered good quality, or what system would be recommended. Thanks in advance! 
Ryan


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## hedge_fund (Jan 1, 2006)

When I first got into planted tanks back in college I right away got a decent pressurized system and I remember it being somewhat overwhelming. In reality it's actually very simple. Some things you really cannot skimp out on or you'll have issues down the road.

Here is a list of what you definitely need:

1. co2 tank (can be purchased on craigslist...go for a 5lb one first if you have room)

2. regulator (I'd get oldpunk from here to build you a cheaper one that can run at pressures of 30psi+. The reason why I prefer my regulators to be 30psi+ is that I use the GLA atomic diffusers which are great. If the regulator does not go higher than 30psi then the diffuser will not work properly. I believe GLA sells regulators that will power these diffusers too but they might be more expensive than oldpunk building you one so check).

3. bubble counter (you can buy a regulator that has one built in or attach a separate one to your co2 line going from the regulator to the diffuser). A bubble counter will help you fine tune how much co2 you are putting into your tank.

4. co2 tubing (get it from GLA since using regular airline tubing is not good...it will become brittle and disintegrate)

5. diffuser - I use the GLA Atomic diffuser. Go for the biggest one you can get since you can always lower the co2. The lower the co2 is going into the tank the smaller the bubbles. If you get a small diffuser and you try to put the co2 pressure on really high then the bubbles will be large...you want smaller bubbles since they diffuse in the water better instead of just floating to the top.

6. Hydor Koralia Circulation pump - I use one in all my tanks. It's usually pointed at the diffuser so the bubbles go all over the tank. You can be pumping a ton of co2 in the aquarium but it won't do you any good if you're not spreading it all over.

Here are some links to checkout:

diffuser:
http://greenleafaquariums.com/co2-diffusers/atomic-diffuser-65.html

tubing:
http://greenleafaquariums.com/co2-resistant-tubing/clear-co2-tubing.html

hydor koralia (they come in different sizes...get a right one for your tank):
Amazon.com: Hydor Koralia Nano 425 Aquarium Circulation Pump 425 GPH: Pet Supplies

30psi+ regulator (contact him with a link to this thread and see what he can do for you):
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/member.php?u=18901

On a side note: 
You can get a really cheap regulator and just run one of those glass ceramic plate diffusers. This will get you by but the atomic diffusers are really nice. *You will get 100 different opinions when it comes to co2 setups so do your research on each one...everyone has their own methods which work. Some are better than others.*

Here is my current tank which runs the exact co2 setup that I've described above...it's 75 gallons with 3 foot by 3 foot dimensions:


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## RyanMan (Sep 14, 2013)

That's a great looking tank! Haha I was aware of all the different parts due to some of those articles I read. I was thinking of doing the setup you mentioned but I was wondering how necessary a circulation pump would be? My tank circulates water pretty well so I could just place the diffuser in an ideal spot to help the CO2 circulate. From what you are saying I guess you would recommend a custom built one compared to a CO2 system sold from someone like GLA? I have the money but wow! I didn't realize they charged that much for CO2 systems.


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## hedge_fund (Jan 1, 2006)

RyanMan said:


> That's a great looking tank! Haha I was aware of all the different parts due to some of those articles I read. I was thinking of doing the setup you mentioned but I was wondering how necessary a circulation pump would be? My tank circulates water pretty well so I could just place the diffuser in an ideal spot to help the CO2 circulate. From what you are saying I guess you would recommend a custom built one compared to a CO2 system sold from someone like GLA? I have the money but wow! I didn't realize they charged that much for CO2 systems.



Thanks. 

Nope a circulation pump is not necessary but from what I have learned over the years I would not have a co2 tank without it. My current cube has 3 circulation pumps and Lilly pipes from my filter. The water literally spins in a circle. I like having tons of flow since it keeps the co2 circulated and keeps algae at bay. All my koralias are small so the current isn't all that strong; just makes the plants sway a bit. 

In terms of the regulator, you do not need to get a custom one built but try to get one that runs at least 30psi. This way you can do the atomic diffuser. I am sure there will be people on here who can recommend you something if you go that route (GLA has them). Mine was custom built but it will pretty much last for a very long time. 




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## hedge_fund (Jan 1, 2006)

Also forgot to mention. If you do get the co2 setup and you decide that it's not for you then you can easily sell it on here without losing too much money. I've sold a few older systems on here and I always received a ton of interest. And...if you grow nice plants you can quickly pay for the entire system by selling your trimmings on here (being that you're in high school that's not a bad gig). 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## RyanMan (Sep 14, 2013)

I guess a circulation pump would be something to add potentially at a later time. Haha it just dawned on me that the Regulator can be custom built or pre-made and purchased. I was confused before and I guess what I meant was whether to buy all the PARTS of the CO2 system separately or together. I think I had visioned buying a CO2 regulator pre-made (like going to a website and buying a regulator). Do I have that understood? I mean I see the GLA CO2 systems which include all of the parts you listed (tubing, regulator, diffuser, needle valve, etc).

Thanks for that last bit of advice! It just seems harder to buy and sell stuff because I live in Canada. Everything is cheap until shipping comes in! I'm not too worried about price (Pizza Delivery pays surprisingly well). Hahaha


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## hedge_fund (Jan 1, 2006)

RyanMan said:


> I guess a circulation pump would be something to add potentially at a later time. Haha it just dawned on me that the Regulator can be custom built or pre-made and purchased. I was confused before and I guess what I meant was whether to buy all the PARTS of the CO2 system separately or together. I think I had visioned buying a CO2 regulator pre-made (like going to a website and buying a regulator). Do I have that understood? I mean I see the GLA CO2 systems which include all of the parts you listed (tubing, regulator, diffuser, needle valve, etc).


I was saying custom built only so it's powerful enough to do 30psi....many regulators on the market will not run an atomic diffuser since their pressure is below 30psi. This is why I said to check out potentially getting a custom one built by someone on here or just getting one that specifically says that it can put out greater than 30psi. I would think that many of the GLA regulators can run an atomic diffuser.

This is why I like the atomic diffusers...you see how tiny the bubbles are?


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## RyanMan (Sep 14, 2013)

I've got ya...  Thanks the video helps me understand since I haven't seen them in action before or I saw it but didn't know what it was haha. That leads to a few more questions. Those atomic diffusers look great and seem like a great option for diffusing the CO2. What do the different sizes mean? What one would be ideal on a 54G tank? Also, is buying a CO2 system from GLA way more expensive than necessary? What I mean is how much money could I potentially be saving, picking and building my own system of a decent to high quality?

Checking out the website I would assume an Atomic Diffuser with the Check Valve would be ideal, correct? The check valve prevents water from entering the tube?


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## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

The Atomic diffuser comes with an integrated check valve? No, I wouldn't do that. Do one component at a time so you have better quality control. In fact, anything that comes with a check valve, integrated into the diffuser/drop checker/bubble counter, is going to be garbage. Generally they're either glass with a little red plastic bobber, or they're faux SS, all silvery with a little arrow on them, and in either case, they're useless and you'll need a decent check valve.

A diffuser on a 54g is probably as high as I'd suggest going. It should work, though a canister with a reactor would be better.


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## RyanMan (Sep 14, 2013)

Well if you check out GLA's website they have ones with integrated check valves or ones without. I guess it's not really necessary on the diffuser. Any help on what size and all that stuff? They have like 45mm and go up by 5.


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## hedge_fund (Jan 1, 2006)

RyanMan said:


> Well if you check out GLA's website they have ones with integrated check valves or ones without. I guess it's not really necessary on the diffuser. Any help on what size and all that stuff? They have like 45mm and go up by 5.


Re-read what I wrote....it's in there about the size. :wink:


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

I promote a quite different approach than buying an all-in-one package. One reason is the design seems to be dumb.
When water or any fluid gets into the solenoid, needle valve or regulator it can stop up tiny openings or tear the diaphram up. Some try to stop this from happening by putting a check valve in between. Some buy really expensive check vales and use two because they expect one to fail. Since I know I CAN depend on water to run downhill, I don't put it right above things that have to stay dry like my reg,etc. 
Buy good parts, string them together with tubing so you can locate the parts where YOU want them rather than where the elcheapo designer thought good enough!


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## RyanMan (Sep 14, 2013)

PlantedRich said:


> I promote a quite different approach than buying an all-in-one package. One reason is the design seems to be dumb.
> When water or any fluid gets into the solenoid, needle valve or regulator it can stop up tiny openings or tear the diaphram up. Some try to stop this from happening by putting a check valve in between. Some buy really expensive check vales and use two because they expect one to fail. Since I know I CAN depend on water to run downhill, I don't put it right above things that have to stay dry like my reg,etc.
> Buy good parts, string them together with tubing so you can locate the parts where YOU want them rather than where the elcheapo designer thought good enough!



I can understand that! If I bought a complete system though, could you still do what you just described? Seems like it wouldn't remove that option.



hedge_fund said:


> Re-read what I wrote....it's in there about the size. :wink:



Biggest one! Got it.

I found out this afternoon that oldpunk no longer makes regulators for others. I'm honestly leaning towards buying one from GLA then, but I'm going to check out shipping costs, and then there are also duties that I don't even want to know about...


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## hedge_fund (Jan 1, 2006)

Contact GLA and tell them you want to run one of their atomic diffusers with the cheapest possible regulator. See which one they recommend. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

As I see it? Many of the ready built setups do use special fittings which do not make it easy to change out parts. I never tried it but I read lots about the problem. I have gone another way on two systems and they seem to work well enough for me. I see lots of talk about end of tank dump, but for me, it is not a problem. If it worried me, it would require a two stage (not two gauge) reg which would cost more or have several problems to resolve if I bought on E-bay. I look at the reg as a simple part which does a very small job. It has to cut the pressure down to what I use. 50PSI is the super most I would use but right now 4PSI runs my DIY Griggs style reactor fine. I want some assurance that the reg will last so I buy a cheap but new reg from a home brew operation. New should last if I don't let it get wet but it also has a repair kit available for $15. I can handle 50 now and maybe 15 later better than over 100 now. Just a personal choice on that. When I get hands on with the beer reg, I can take it to the hardware and find almost all the fittings I need to fit it. I like to screw them in and see them fit! 
The rest is personal decisions on each item that we want to use or change. 
My choice goes this way:
Solenoid--Clippard E_-2 or E_-3 fully ported. Choose carefully before buying as there are many types. Some will work, some are a pain or refuse to be used at all!
Needle valve-- Fabco NV-55 using 10-32 fittings (cost $23). Many like the nv-55-18 because it uses 1/8 pipe but it also costs $55 and they use the exact same internals!
My bubble counter is the cheap one from Fluval just so I can have bubbles to watch! I like to hang it on the bungee strap holding the tank upright and secure. That puts it low so the water can't run into the reg, etc.
Since I use a canister I do the DIY Griggs style which uses low pressure and works very well. 
I order the plastic 10-32 fittings and plastic check valves online from a plastics company. They are both priced at under a dollar so I ordered several of each while shipping. I do use a check valve as I do lay the reg down while changing tanks and the check valve does keep the water out for the short term.


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## RyanMan (Sep 14, 2013)

PlantedRich said:


> As I see it? Many of the ready built setups do use special fittings which do not make it easy to change out parts. I never tried it but I read lots about the problem. I have gone another way on two systems and they seem to work well enough for me. I see lots of talk about end of tank dump, but for me, it is not a problem. If it worried me, it would require a two stage (not two gauge) reg which would cost more or have several problems to resolve if I bought on E-bay. I look at the reg as a simple part which does a very small job. It has to cut the pressure down to what I use. 50PSI is the super most I would use but right now 4PSI runs my DIY Griggs style reactor fine. I want some assurance that the reg will last so I buy a cheap but new reg from a home brew operation. New should last if I don't let it get wet but it also has a repair kit available for $15. I can handle 50 now and maybe 15 later better than over 100 now. Just a personal choice on that. When I get hands on with the beer reg, I can take it to the hardware and find almost all the fittings I need to fit it. I like to screw them in and see them fit!
> 
> The rest is personal decisions on each item that we want to use or change.
> 
> ...



I like the idea of being cost-effective and piecing it all together myself, but it just seems like a lot of work to start out with, considering I have little previous knowledge on the topic. I haven't decided yet, but I'm going to keep looking at different options this week while I'm deciding.


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

Good thinking to run all the info through and decide what works best for you. Much better than just going with the adverts. 
One reasonably simple way to improve the ready made units takes a small amount of extra thinking (and always money). When they put the bubble counter fluid ( either fluid or water) in the bubble counter directly above the stuff we need to keep dry, they are setting us up for failure. When their cheap check valve fails, it often ruins the needle valve or reg itself. Bad news!
If one has this type reg setup, I promote not using any liquid in the provided bubble counter. Just leave it inline as designed but empty. Then at a point in the tubing from that bubble counter to the tank, make a loop of tubing down below the important (expensive?) stuff and add a bubble counter with the liquid for counting bubbles. I use the cheap plastic one from Fluval. Works the same but removes the danger of ruining the needle valve or reg. Water doesn't run up the tube and it can't enter the vertical run of tubing because it is full of CO2 trapped when the solenoid closes. Think of pressing an upside down glass down into water?
Better not to have the first bubble counter in the first place but for less than $10, we can make a big difference in how long our reg, etc. will work. We have to work with what we have, sometimes.


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## Evilgrin (Oct 2, 2012)

Ryan-man I recently setup my C02 system and found it cheaper to get my own parts rather then get a pre-boxed kit. I kept it rather simple for the moment but will be upgrading parts as time and money allow I opted to got with the Aquatek Premium Regulator it is adjustable from 0 - 140psi on the working end, A Fluval ceramic disc diffuser soon to upgrade to a ISTA Max Mix CO2 Reactor in the coming weeks and a 5# C02 tank as well as 16' or C02 tubing all from Amazon for just over 200$ US shipped to my door. I've had it set up and running for just over a week now and I'm more then happy with it plants have already shown accelerated growth and the fish don't seem to mind a bit but I am being conservative and only running about 1 Bps at least until my drop checker shows up then I'll try to get the fluid to turn a nice shade of green.

Like you I scoured the internet for reviews and all the info I could find on C02 systems over the last 2 months and read and watched all the reviews on you tube before I made my choice on what I purchased and couldn't be happier with it, I was originally going to go with a paintball setup but after looking at the cost to fill vs the duration of use I opted for the 5# tank over the 24oz paintball tank I figure the cost will break even before the end of the year then it will be far cheaper in the long run with the 5# tank.


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## RyanMan (Sep 14, 2013)

Evilgrin said:


> Ryan-man I recently setup my C02 system and found it cheaper to get my own parts rather then get a pre-boxed kit. I kept it rather simple for the moment but will be upgrading parts as time and money allow I opted to got with the Aquatek Premium Regulator it is adjustable from 0 - 140psi on the working end, A Fluval ceramic disc diffuser soon to upgrade to a ISTA Max Mix CO2 Reactor in the coming weeks and a 5# C02 tank as well as 16' or C02 tubing all from Amazon for just over 200$ US shipped to my door. I've had it set up and running for just over a week now and I'm more then happy with it plants have already shown accelerated growth and the fish don't seem to mind a bit but I am being conservative and only running about 1 Bps at least until my drop checker shows up then I'll try to get the fluid to turn a nice shade of green.
> 
> Like you I scoured the internet for reviews and all the info I could find on C02 systems over the last 2 months and read and watched all the reviews on you tube before I made my choice on what I purchased and couldn't be happier with it, I was originally going to go with a paintball setup but after looking at the cost to fill vs the duration of use I opted for the 5# tank over the 24oz paintball tank I figure the cost will break even before the end of the year then it will be far cheaper in the long run with the 5# tank.



Thanks for the advice! I do like the idea of buying each piece separately to save money. But we'll see what I can scrounge up this week. Living in the Great White North isn't always the best experience for Aquarium hobbyists.


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## RyanMan (Sep 14, 2013)

PlantedRich said:


> Good thinking to run all the info through and decide what works best for you. Much better than just going with the adverts.
> One reasonably simple way to improve the ready made units takes a small amount of extra thinking (and always money). When they put the bubble counter fluid ( either fluid or water) in the bubble counter directly above the stuff we need to keep dry, they are setting us up for failure. When their cheap check valve fails, it often ruins the needle valve or reg itself. Bad news!
> If one has this type reg setup, I promote not using any liquid in the provided bubble counter. Just leave it inline as designed but empty. Then at a point in the tubing from that bubble counter to the tank, make a loop of tubing down below the important (expensive?) stuff and add a bubble counter with the liquid for counting bubbles. I use the cheap plastic one from Fluval. Works the same but removes the danger of ruining the needle valve or reg. Water doesn't run up the tube and it can't enter the vertical run of tubing because it is full of CO2 trapped when the solenoid closes. Think of pressing an upside down glass down into water?
> Better not to have the first bubble counter in the first place but for less than $10, we can make a big difference in how long our reg, etc. will work. We have to work with what we have, sometimes.



I need a better understanding of this check valve. I understand it is used to prevent water from damaging the regulator, but how does water get into the CO2 resistant tubing? Is it common? Or is it just a safe measure in case? I keep thinking people are describing the check valve and needle valve and bubble counter as combined things. Are they all separate parts?


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

Some are combined and some are not. The cheaper vertions have things all built together. They also often use fittings that most of us can't go find anything to mate up. The check valve on some are built into the bottom of the bubble counter which is set directly above the needle valve and reg. There has to be fluid or water in the bubble counter to see the bubble passing. So when any tiny flaw shows in the check valve while the solenoid has the CO2 turned off, lets the fluid run down right into the works we want to keep dry. BAD plan!
Others use a check valve that is located off the rest of the equipment and just inline on the tubing. The ways this might get wet are from any tank water that comes down from the tank or maybe from a reactor they use. Water can begin to siphon out of the tank and run downhill to the check valve even though the tubing is shut off at the solenoid. Water will run down if the air/CO2 in the tube can run past the water and up. Water displaces air type thing?
That's where I say we need to locate the check valve so that any water coming from the tank has to go uphill. When it meets the air/CO2 trapped in the tube it stops before it gets to the check valve.


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## RyanMan (Sep 14, 2013)

PlantedRich said:


> Some are combined and some are not. The cheaper vertions have things all built together. They also often use fittings that most of us can't go find anything to mate up. The check valve on some are built into the bottom of the bubble counter which is set directly above the needle valve and reg. There has to be fluid or water in the bubble counter to see the bubble passing. So when any tiny flaw shows in the check valve while the solenoid has the CO2 turned off, lets the fluid run down right into the works we want to keep dry. BAD plan!
> Others use a check valve that is located off the rest of the equipment and just inline on the tubing. The ways this might get wet are from any tank water that comes down from the tank or maybe from a reactor they use. Water can begin to siphon out of the tank and run downhill to the check valve even though the tubing is shut off at the solenoid. Water will run down if the air/CO2 in the tube can run past the water and up. Water displaces air type thing?
> That's where I say we need to locate the check valve so that any water coming from the tank has to go uphill. When it meets the air/CO2 trapped in the tube it stops before it gets to the check valve.



So would this mean that the whole CO2 system should be above the tank? And then run downhill into the water? That's what my understanding is, and I also understand that not many, if anyone at all, do this.


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## RyanMan (Sep 14, 2013)

I have been looking around and think I want to do an inline diffuser. I'm debating buying a canister filter for my tank and then purchasing one of GLA's inline Atomic Diffusers. If I choose this method (which seems be optimal) should I still get the biggest diffuser they sell? Also, will I need different tubing than what comes with the canister filter?


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## randylahey (Sep 14, 2013)

Hello fellow canadian,
What canister are you looking into? You don't need special hose for the canister, I use an up aqua inline diffuser that matches the hose on my eheim 2075 (16/22mm). It works well but the bubble mist is annoying. Im in the process of building a reactor based on scapegoat's hybrid design, just need a couple more pieces.


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## RyanMan (Sep 14, 2013)

I was actually going to ask you guys what you thought! My first thought was something along the lines of a Fluval 406. What do you guys think? I don't know anything about the Eheim filters but if anyone has any recommendations for this tank let me know! 54G Corner


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## shift (Jan 7, 2013)

I second a diy reactor. I started with a glass ceramic diffuser but didn't link looking at a tank full of bubbles. I made a diy one out of PVC and now the filter output is virtually bubble free. More efficient and a clearer view!


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

Sorry about the slow response. Been caught up in the airline jam. 

Quote" So would this mean that the whole CO2 system should be above the tank? And then run downhill into the water? That's what my understanding is, and I also understand that not many, if anyone at all, do this."

No , not at all what I meant. 
Like this?









With the reg, solenoid and neelde valve higher than the check valve and the check valve being in a vertical run, the water from the tank will not run up into the tubing to the check valve even if the check valve fails. Locating the bubble counter which has fluid or water in it, between the check valve and the reactor will not let the fluid/water run uphill to ruin any of the other parts. 
Water will only run down or if under pressure like below the tank, it will not be able to go up into the check valve because there is CO2 trapped there when the solenoid closes.


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

Picture of my setup:










Since I did not buy "off the shelf" kit but off the shelf parts to put together, I am able to locate things where I want them. In the pic, the reg is at top with the Clippard Mouse (yellow) solenoid, then tubing up to the back of the item screwed to the frame which is the Fabco NV-55 needle valve. These are all items I want to stay dry. From the needle valve, tubing goes DOWN to the bubble counter, a cheap Fluval. From the bubble counter, tubing goes over to my DIY reactor. The simple part is that the water in the bubble counter can't flow upward by gravity and the trapped air also keeps it out even though the water in the reactor has pressure behind it from the siphon as well as the filter running. NO CHECK VALVE needed. 
If you buy off the shelf with the parts lined up different, it is often difficult or impossible to rearrange them so that a leaking check valve can ruin the other parts. Gravity makes the water run down into things when there is any tiny fault in the check valve.


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## randylahey (Sep 14, 2013)

RyanMan said:


> I was actually going to ask you guys what you thought! My first thought was something along the lines of a Fluval 406. What do you guys think? I don't know anything about the Eheim filters but if anyone has any recommendations for this tank let me know! 54G Corner


 It all depends on what you want and can get. Fluval is good, some people hate the ribbed hose for connecting inline and some say it's fine. Some have connected clear hose with problems and some haven't had any problems. I personally like eheim, low power consumption, silent and the flow adjuster and accessible pre filter are great. They are pricy though, I happened to get 3 good shape used 2075s for less than one new.

Oh yeah, hi shift! If you come down to Vancouver, let me know and I'll hook you up with some rare goodies if you want


Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## RyanMan (Sep 14, 2013)

Thanks for all the information guys this is great! Rich those pictures were exactly what I needed. I am going to try and find as many parts locally as I can. I'm going to try and find the cylinder and regulator at the very least. Some of the other things might need to be ordered, but thanks to randylahey I should be able to order the rest of my parts in Canada! I'm really thinking of getting a Fluval 406. I can order it online in Canada for $195 with free shipping! I think that's a great deal. Anyway, I am starting to sway towards a reactor, which will be the next step after I track down these parts and whatnot. I can always order some clear tubing for the Fluval 406 for ease of use with a reactor and anything else.


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## RyanMan (Sep 14, 2013)

I've gathered that this is considered one of the best needle valves? Is this a reasonable price for one as well? http://store.fabco-air.com/proddetail.php?prod=NV-55-18&cat=112


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

I find it really good for my tanks. I have one of the NV-55 18 and one of the NV55. The only different is the 18 uses 1/8 npt male threads and the NV55 uses the much smaller 10-32 fitting. That makes the NV-55 much smaller. The NV55-18 needs the extra space for the larger ports. But that can be a downside if weight and space are a question. It is a really piece of metal, for sure. Check the size before deciding for final. I never see these on other sites so I have to feel the price is okay even though their shipping seemed a bit heavy handed for a small box. 
At one point I had that they listed for $55 but that was wrong. In looking at the shipping slip the price and shipping are not listed separate but the total from Florida to Texas was $44.95. A little on the high side for a flat rate box, maybe? And we know what they do for crossing the border?


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## RyanMan (Sep 14, 2013)

That's what I was afraid of... I really wanted to order this piece as it is highly recommended. I'll double check the total cost for me, however getting hit by Duties will result in an even higher price. Sigh...


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## Matthew RJ (Jul 4, 2012)

It seems that Ryan & I are at a similar stage, saving pennies, trying to make sense of it all, selecting models, thinking of changing filters ...

What made me find this thread is the drop checker search ... I've considered drop checker -vs- ph controller / monitor -vs- having the regulator plugged into at timer with the lights. I'm still unsure about it all. 

Ryan, have you made any progress in your search?


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

I use CO2 on two tanks, one with controller and one without. While the controller does make changes automatic, I find that both bear close watching after I change anything. If I were not already into the controller as I got it as part of a used tank, I doubt that I would spend the $200 to add it. It is nice to have a digital number to peg my thinking but the real issue is how my fish react to the CO2 I'm adding. So I still get back to having the controller run things but setting it by the way my fish act rather than set it and forget it. Same with the drop checkers. I look at them and they show green but if they show green and the fish hang at the top, I ignore the drop checker and back off on the CO2. The drop check and controller can both be wrong but the fish are what really tells on me.


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## RyanMan (Sep 14, 2013)

Matthew RJ said:


> It seems that Ryan & I are at a similar stage, saving pennies, trying to make sense of it all, selecting models, thinking of changing filters ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I actually haven't ordered anything yet! I'm writing Exams right now, so potentially next weekend I will start sorting everything out.


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## RyanMan (Sep 14, 2013)

I'm going to buy a CO2 Regulator off of GLA. My question is, which one should I buy? The different pricing situations depend on whether the regulator is a Smith series or Cornelius. Or whether it has a Fabco needle valve or a "super-precise" Fabco NV-55 needle valve. What is necessary for me? I don't mind buying the more expensive one if there is good reason. I decided to purchase the regulator off GLA because I get all the parts I need, and then can buy a cylinder locally, saving on shipping costs.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

RyanMan said:


> I'm going to buy a CO2 Regulator off of GLA. My question is, which one should I buy? The different pricing situations depend on whether the regulator is a Smith series or Cornelius. Or whether it has a Fabco needle valve or a "super-precise" Fabco NV-55 needle valve. What is necessary for me? I don't mind buying the more expensive one if there is good reason. I decided to purchase the regulator off GLA because I get all the parts I need, and then can buy a cylinder locally, saving on shipping costs.


Guess that depends on market and tank.. Shipping a 5# CO2 tank is like $13...

$14 for a 10lb aluminum tank.. It was roughly 64 and 97 dollars shipped. 

OF course this all depends on market tank size used ect..


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## baishui (Jan 7, 2014)

GLA is.....?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## RyanMan (Sep 14, 2013)

baishui said:


> GLA is.....?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Green Leaf Aquariums
http://greenleafaquariums.com


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## baishui (Jan 7, 2014)

thank you


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## Smeagol (Mar 4, 2013)

hedge_fund said:


> ....many regulators on the market will not run an atomic diffuser since their pressure is below 30psi.


How do you know which regulators will do 30psi? I've been shopping online and most of the product descriptions aren't that detailed and don't tell you the maximum pressure.


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## RyanMan (Sep 14, 2013)

Smeagol said:


> How do you know which regulators will do 30psi? I've been shopping online and most of the product descriptions aren't that detailed and don't tell you the maximum pressure.



All I can help you with is that the GLA regulators all work between 0-100 PSI according to the specs.


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 4, 2008)

Smeagol said:


> How do you know which regulators will do 30psi? I've been shopping online and most of the product descriptions aren't that detailed and don't tell you the maximum pressure.


You will have to look into the regulator specification PDF for the maximum delivery pressures.

You may want to get one that has a slightly higher maximum delivery pressure (~50 PSI) in case you want to use an atomic CO2 diffuser (they typically require slightly higher pressures to operate).


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## RyanMan (Sep 14, 2013)

I'm assuming this specific regulator is quite a bit lower ranked as far as quality goes than anything GLA sells, but is it any good at all? It's cheap and a name that I recognize. http://www.petsandponds.com/en/aquarium-supplies/c378121399/p17160403.html


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 4, 2008)

RyanMan said:


> I'm assuming this specific regulator is quite a bit lower ranked as far as quality goes than anything GLA sells, but is it any good at all? It's cheap and a name that I recognize. http://www.petsandponds.com/en/aquarium-supplies/c378121399/p17160403.html


It is an introductory piece of equipment, priced appropriately so. 

However, that is not to say that you cannot build a good setup yourself for a similar price (just have to be patient and look for the best deals).

Many people have had bad experiences with Milwaukee regulators, while others have had good experiences.


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## RyanMan (Sep 14, 2013)

http://www.praxair.ca/en/gases/buy-liquid-or-compressed-carbon-dioxide-gas

Which grade of CO2 do I need from this list? Obviously I need the compressed gas version but does the purity matter?


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

I was not fully aware there was a different grade!! I just go for the cheap stuff and most of the guys I know who do home brew do the same. Locally that is often the welding shop gas.


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 4, 2008)

RyanMan said:


> http://www.praxair.ca/en/gases/buy-liquid-or-compressed-carbon-dioxide-gas
> 
> Which grade of CO2 do I need from this list? Obviously I need the compressed gas version but does the purity matter?


No, the purity does not really matter. Get whatever is cheapest, but don't go for any of the mixes.


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## Racedoc (Nov 18, 2013)

RyanMan said:


> I'm assuming this specific regulator is quite a bit lower ranked as far as quality goes than anything GLA sells, but is it any good at all? It's cheap and a name that I recognize. http://www.petsandponds.com/en/aquarium-supplies/c378121399/p17160403.html


 Hi Ryan - I just wanted to give a plug to GLA (I'm not affiliated with them in any way lol). I had been avoiding compressed CO2 like the plague but dove in complete system from GLA and it has been spot on perfect, easy to use, and free of issues. Plus the lead guy there, Orlando, will respond to any question you email him in like 5 minutes (even on the weekends and night!). I think you'll be pleased when you add the CO2, the results are incredible. Good luck!!


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## Mirkinator (Jan 13, 2014)

Greetings, I wanted to chime in because im right at the spot ryan is at. I am currently browsing all the options and I think i want to go with the GLA myself. My only question is do you think its worth teh extra $70 for the smith regulator? Seems the Cornelius has a pretty good repuation and I would hope last a long time. Let me know what you think 

Primo Co2 system


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## RyanMan (Sep 14, 2013)

Mirkinator said:


> Greetings, I wanted to chime in because im right at the spot ryan is at. I am currently browsing all the options and I think i want to go with the GLA myself. My only question is do you think its worth teh extra $70 for the smith regulator? Seems the Cornelius has a pretty good repuation and I would hope last a long time. Let me know what you think
> 
> 
> 
> Primo Co2 system



I can't really justify spending more than just for a basic regulator. I'm using a reactor on my setup so I don't even need a high pressure regulator either.

Can anybody tell me what the deal is with this regulator? A local store wants $75 for it and it seems it functions at pressure anywhere between 0-160 PSI.


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## Mirkinator (Jan 13, 2014)

RyanMan said:


> I can't really justify spending more than just for a basic regulator. I'm using a reactor on my setup so I don't even need a high pressure regulator either.


Right, but you have other things to consider. End of tank dumps, solenoids, check valves, if you ever want to run a atomic diffusser, longevity, quality, ease of use, etc......


But I ended up paying the extra $70 for the nice GLA one. comes early next week so lets see how it goes


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

That would be what many call a "beer reg". A single stage reg so there is the question of end of tank dump to consider which way you want to go on that. Some want two stage, some just change the tank before it reaches the critical point of nearly dry. Other wise it is not shiny and bright but seems to do the job. You have to use a screwdriver or coin to adjut the pressure rather than using a plastic knob. The low pressure gauge reads a bit more "course" than one with a 0-60 PSI might so it is a little harder to see when you change from maybe 20 to 22. Not a very big thing as you really don't know what pressure to set it on until you really see what happens. You just turn it down if you want a little less pressure. 
You might want to check some specs on the pressure and assume it goes 0-160 due only to the meter. Some regs will do more and some less than the meter shows.


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## RyanMan (Sep 14, 2013)

So how does that regulator compare to the Cornelius one in this setup?http://greenleafaquariums.com/co2-regulators/primo-co2-regulator.html
I think I may just order this set as it contains all the parts I need. And I also found a Canadian website for a CO2 cylinder and a local source to refill the tank for $15. Do I need anything else for my setup? I'm getting a reactor built by nilocg here on the forum, and am getting clear tubing to use with my Fluval 406 filter.


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 4, 2008)

RyanMan said:


> So how does that regulator compare to the Cornelius one in this setup?http://greenleafaquariums.com/co2-regulators/primo-co2-regulator.html
> I think I may just order this set as it contains all the parts I need. And I also found a Canadian website for a CO2 cylinder and a local source to refill the tank for $15. Do I need anything else for my setup? I'm getting a reactor built by nilocg here on the forum, and am getting clear tubing to use with my Fluval 406 filter.


I believe both regulators are Cornelius brands. They are fairly common.

Be aware that when ordering from GLA, you will most likely have to pay import taxes and any duties (customs) associated with US imports (usually GST, PST, duty fee of ~6% and then a handling fee if handled by Canada Post, or a brokerage fee if handled by a courier (Fedex, UPS, etc)).

Other than that, you may want a drop checker with 4 dkH reference solution.

As a quick estimate, if you were to source all the parts yourself, you could build a similar setup as the GLA one for under $200.


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## RyanMan (Sep 14, 2013)

Darkblade48 said:


> I believe both regulators are Cornelius brands. They are fairly common.
> 
> Be aware that when ordering from GLA, you will most likely have to pay import taxes and any duties (customs) associated with US imports (usually GST, PST, duty fee of ~6% and then a handling fee if handled by Canada Post, or a brokerage fee if handled by a courier (Fedex, UPS, etc)).
> 
> ...



I think I'm still going to have to go with the GLA one... Sourcing all those parts is going to be a hassle because I can't get anything locally, and the parts I have, such as that regulator are less than ideal.


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 4, 2008)

RyanMan said:


> I think I'm still going to have to go with the GLA one... Sourcing all those parts is going to be a hassle because I can't get anything locally, and the parts I have, such as that regulator are less than ideal.


Up to you


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## RyanMan (Sep 14, 2013)

Darkblade48 said:


> Up to you



I mean... Unless you had any tips on where to source these parts. I'm not having any luck.


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

RyanMan said:


> I can't really justify spending more than just for a basic regulator. I'm using a reactor on my setup so I don't even need a high pressure regulator either.
> 
> Can anybody tell me what the deal is with this regulator? A local store wants $75 for it and it seems it functions at pressure anywhere between 0-160 PSI.


this reg is about $35 retail, for $70, too much.

If you want to copy exactly the same as GLA, go for peter paul solenoid, series 15, the AC 7 watts version, about $15, and Fabco needle valve, FN-18, about $6, they are the parts that exactly the same as GLA.



or not exactly the same as GLA, but similar, require your time and know how, to build one yourself.
as in picture:


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 4, 2008)

RyanMan said:


> I mean... Unless you had any tips on where to source these parts. I'm not having any luck.


If you are just looking for a beer regulator, then any online store will have it. Sometimes you can find them on sale.

For the needle valve, you can contact Fabco or a distributor. The NV-55-18 is ~$40.

Bubble counter, you can get from eBay.

Solenoid, there are lots of choices (there is a large thread that details which solenoids can be used, again eBay is your best bet to find them cheaply).


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## RyanMan (Sep 14, 2013)

Darkblade48 said:


> If you are just looking for a beer regulator, then any online store will have it. Sometimes you can find them on sale.
> 
> For the needle valve, you can contact Fabco or a distributor. The NV-55-18 is ~$40.
> 
> ...



Now correct me if I'm wrong, but the one included in the cheaper GLA sets, the Cornelius regulator, is a basic "beer reg" is it not? And what is the advantage of the Smith series "premium" regulator GLA sells with it's higher end systems?


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 4, 2008)

RyanMan said:


> Now correct me if I'm wrong, but the one included in the cheaper GLA sets, the Cornelius regulator, is a basic "beer reg" is it not? And what is the advantage of the Smith series "premium" regulator GLA sells with it's higher end systems?


The Cornelius regulator is a basic beer regulator, yes.

The Smith "premium" regulator might use slightly better parts, might have slightly better QC, etc, but I would say marketing also plays a role.


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## RyanMan (Sep 14, 2013)

Darkblade48 said:


> The Cornelius regulator is a basic beer regulator, yes.
> 
> The Smith "premium" regulator might use slightly better parts, might have slightly better QC, etc, but I would say marketing also plays a role.



Ok, that's what I thought. I've read that many people recommend to purchase as big a CO2 cylinder as space permits. Decided to order the cylinder from OntarioBeerKegs.com to save money ordering within country, assuming I also need a nylon washer, threw one of those in too. The cylinder order cost me $116. Found a fire safety supply store here in Saskatoon that will fill the cylinder for $15. Lookin good so far!


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

I might suggest looking at either of these for needle valves. Both are the same valve but different size and different ports (openings) . 
The NV-55-18 is pretty big and heavy with the 1/8 inch fittings. 
http://store.fabco-air.com/proddetail.php?prod=NV-55-18
NV-55 with the 10-32 fittings but cheaper. 
http://store.fabco-air.com/proddetail.php?prod=NV-55

The price of the NV-55-18 is coming down pretty good but still somewhat higher. Either are nice needle valves.


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## RyanMan (Sep 14, 2013)

PlantedRich said:


> I might suggest looking at either of these for needle valves. Both are the same valve but different size and different ports (openings) .
> The NV-55-18 is pretty big and heavy with the 1/8 inch fittings.
> http://store.fabco-air.com/proddetail.php?prod=NV-55-18
> NV-55 with the 10-32 fittings but cheaper.
> ...



Is the "super precise" Fabco needle valve included in some of the GLA systems the NV-55 or the NV-55-18?


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

Never been hands on with one so I can't say. Anybody else know? 
Possibly E-mail GLA and ask them?


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## RyanMan (Sep 14, 2013)

How does $125.99 CAD sound for a 10 lb. cylinder including the tax and shipping?


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 4, 2008)

RyanMan said:


> How does $125.99 CAD sound for a 10 lb. cylinder including the tax and shipping?


Expensive. The 10 pound cylinder has to be shipped empty, so you will be looking at an additional $20 or so once everything is said and done (assuming that the cylinder does not also need hydrostatic testing).

I can get a filled 10 pound CO2 cylinder for $75 CAD, so at $146, you are paying nearly double.


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## goneRogue (Aug 18, 2013)

RyanMan said:


> How does $125.99 CAD sound for a 10 lb. cylinder including the tax and shipping?


Absurdly high. Check aquariumplants.com


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## RyanMan (Sep 14, 2013)

Darkblade48 said:


> Expensive. The 10 pound cylinder has to be shipped empty, so you will be looking at an additional $20 or so once everything is said and done (assuming that the cylinder does not also need hydrostatic testing).
> 
> I can get a filled 10 pound CO2 cylinder for $75 CAD, so at $146, you are paying nearly double.



Where can I find one for that price?


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 4, 2008)

RyanMan said:


> Where can I find one for that price?


You will have to shop around, I suppose.

I get mine from a local fire extinguisher shop.

You can check welding stores, fire extinguisher stores, home made beer stores, hydroponic stores, etc, for starters.


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## RyanMan (Sep 14, 2013)

Darkblade48 said:


> You will have to shop around, I suppose.
> 
> I get mine from a local fire extinguisher shop.
> 
> You can check welding stores, fire extinguisher stores, home made beer stores, hydroponic stores, etc, for starters.



I've been looking, a few fire safety places have referred me to the website where I was to pay $129.99 and they said the website had excellent prices.


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 4, 2008)

RyanMan said:


> I've been looking, a few fire safety places have referred me to the website where I was to pay $129.99 and they said the website had excellent prices.


I don't know what is available to you, but that price seems unreasonable to me. If there is no other choice though, that might be what you are stuck with, I suppose.


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## RyanMan (Sep 14, 2013)

I ordered that one. Unfortunately it seemed like the best option. I had been looking around locally everywhere and at Canadian websites. Found that OntarioBeerKegs.com had the cheapest I could find. A bunch of local stores and suppliers said that it was next to impossible to find smaller cylinders like these around and that they all order them in and pay what they need to because there is no better way. So anyways, now I have my 10lb Cylinder on the way, and I have a place to fill it up. Plus, nilocg from the forum here built me a Rex Griggs style reactor which look awesome! Now I just need to locate the other pieces and I will be on my way...


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## RyanMan (Sep 14, 2013)

Got all my gear today! Time to go fill er up and get this thing rolling! I was wondering what's up with this bubble counter. Doesn't it disobey the rule of being BELOW the important parts?


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## jrman83 (Nov 22, 2010)

I would throw out that solution they sent with your drop checker, most are useless. Unless it says it is 4/5dkh solution. Get that and then just add 3-4 drops of the standard API ph test regent to it.


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## RyanMan (Sep 14, 2013)

jrman83 said:


> I would throw out that solution they sent with your drop checker, most are useless. Unless it says it is 4/5dkh solution. Get that and then just add 3-4 drops of the standard API ph test regent to it.



Well that is exactly what they say it is on the website. They say it is a pre-made solution containing 4dkh and ph reagent.


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## jrman83 (Nov 22, 2010)

If that is what it is then you should be good.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 4, 2008)

RyanMan said:


> I was wondering what's up with this bubble counter. Doesn't it disobey the rule of being BELOW the important parts?


What do you mean by below the important parts? The height it is at doesn't really matter.


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## RyanMan (Sep 14, 2013)

Darkblade48 said:


> What do you mean by below the important parts? The height it is at doesn't really matter.



Yeah sorry I didn't describe that very well. What I meant to say is that earlier in this thread everyone seemed to be talking about how anything with water like that should be below the important parts such as the solenoid and regulator because water damages them. Now that is what the check valve is for right between the needle valve and bubble counter, but is this safe enough?


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## RyanMan (Sep 14, 2013)

PlantedRich said:


> Picture of my setup:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This is the post I'm referring to and how his equipment runs below the regulator before running back up into the tank.


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## exv152 (Jun 8, 2009)

RyanMan said:


> This is the post I'm referring to and how his equipment runs below the regulator before running back up into the tank.


Yeah, it appears he's running the lines like that to make it harder for the water to get to the parts that can get ruined. Assuming the check valves will fail, and they most likely will.


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

I should let you know that there are those who insist it doesn't matter. But it does on mine so that is the way I go. I find if there is a leak in the line between the bubble counter or other places where it can gradully ooze out, the water will move into the line, but as long as I have no leaks, my water stays out of the gas filled areas. 
One of those "results may vary" things??? 

This is the way I now have it running. Note that the check valve is gone. 









When I starting mention of no check valve there were some questions about it because I did have the check valve in the old pictures but this seems to be working since about the first of the year or so. When I find the water is gone from the bubble counter, I unscrew the lid to let water come in from the reactor and aquarium but as long as I keep it sealed none goes up the line to the needle valve.


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## RyanMan (Sep 14, 2013)

So how well do you think GLA's custom design will work? I assume it must be fine as this is their standard design. I'm just curious as to why they would have the bubble counter right above the needle valve, which is directly connected to the solenoid. That's a little close to a critical area with gravity favouring damage.


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## exv152 (Jun 8, 2009)

RyanMan said:


> So how well do you think GLA's custom design will work? I assume it must be fine as this is their standard design. I'm just curious as to why they would have the bubble counter right above the needle valve, which is directly connected to the solenoid. That's a little close to a critical area with gravity favouring damage.


I have the choice regulator and I like it alot, it's a solid unit. The fact that the bubble counter is mounted right on the needle valve is not an issue. If you look at the brass fitting between the bubble counter & the needlve valve, that's a brass check valve. Plus you'll want to add another CV or two in the line leading to the BC. The BC mounted right on top of the NV is the design used by a great number of folks. I wouldn't say one is better than the other.


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

To me, I find it is often not good to play games with Mother Nature! Gravity often wins when I challenge it. 
While the check valve and bubble counter is made in the common way, I have to ask myself why? Is it because it is just done that way and looks nice and compact? Is it that it is cheaper to make and still sells well? No firm answers to those but I do find that when the check valve gets a bit funky and maybe doesn't seal totally, the water or fluid would seem to be in the worst possible location. Like living in a flood plain and keeping the valuable art collection in the basement? 
So rather than challenge the real world, I let nature do as she likes with the liquid and I move my reg, needle counter, and solenoid up out of the basement and into the attic where floods don't happen. 
I find that liquids go down, gases go up and since I have no finances invested in the design, it works for me. If I had a design and had sold it for years, I might feel different but I don't.


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## RyanMan (Sep 14, 2013)

I was reading down the list of installation of the regulator. How exactly do I do this "clear" or "check" of the cylinder. Do I just turn the handle slightly to release some CO2 then immediately close it or what? Just seems a little sketchy to do...


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 4, 2008)

RyanMan said:


> I was reading down the list of installation of the regulator. How exactly do I do this "clear" or "check" of the cylinder. Do I just turn the handle slightly to release some CO2 then immediately close it or what? Just seems a little sketchy to do...


What context are those terms used in?

If you are talking about checking the CO2 cylinder itself, if you open the main CO2 tank valve just a bit, it'll let out a bit of CO2. It will be loud, but harmless (just be prepared for a bit of a scare). 

This allows any debris that might be in the valve to work its way loose before you attach the regulator (preventing said debris from making its way into the regulator).


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## RyanMan (Sep 14, 2013)

Darkblade48 said:


> What context are those terms used in?
> 
> If you are talking about checking the CO2 cylinder itself, if you open the main CO2 tank valve just a bit, it'll let out a bit of CO2. It will be loud, but harmless (just be prepared for a bit of a scare).
> 
> This allows any debris that might be in the valve to work its way loose before you attach the regulator (preventing said debris from making its way into the regulator).



Thanks that's it!

So I have my reactor installed inline using the 5/8" ID Clear Vinyl tubing. Haha you guys I'm no expert at this... 😅 the tube came pre rolled so whenever I space it properly between each connection it wants to fold in half and make kinks in the line. What's the best way to establish good flow? I'll upload a picture for corrections to be made to.


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## jrman83 (Nov 22, 2010)

You can loosen up the hose by putting it in a sink or bucket full of hot water. Or, try spinning the hose a little to move the kink around.


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## RyanMan (Sep 14, 2013)

jrman83 said:


> You can loosen up the hose by putting it in a sink or bucket full of hot water. Or, try spinning the hose a little to move the kink around.



Yeah I think my plan is to put it in a bucket of really hot water and then would it make sense that I can basically shape the hose in any direction, and then it will "harden" again?


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

I had the same problem with kinks when I was using a reactor. I ended up having to use barbed elbows in a couple spots to avoid the kinks. Thicker walled tubing that's more flexible will also help. Just heating it won't make the kinks go away for whatever it is worth.


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## RyanMan (Sep 14, 2013)

oldpunk78 said:


> I had the same problem with kinks when I was using a reactor. I ended up having to use barbed elbows in a couple spots to avoid the kinks. Thicker walled tubing that's more flexible will also help. Just heating it won't make the kinks go away for whatever it is worth.



Darn... Yeah the tubing is not exactly the easiest to cooperate with! Are there any other kinds of specific tubing that would work better? Or do you just continue to use the vinyl tubing with elbows?


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## exv152 (Jun 8, 2009)

RyanMan said:


> Darn... Yeah the tubing is not exactly the easiest to cooperate with! Are there any other kinds of specific tubing that would work better? Or do you just continue to use the vinyl tubing with elbows?


Other than thicker walled tubing, which is easy to find. You can also use pvc tubing and join it together with vinyl. I would also consider raising the reactor and bracing it to the inside of the cabinet, that might help eliminate the kinking.


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## RyanMan (Sep 14, 2013)

Does it make a big difference on what the working pressure gauge is set at and how you tune the needle valve? Also, how far open the cylinder is? The GLA assembly manual says turn the cylinder 1 full turn counter clockwise to get 600PSI. But I turned it half of a turn and got 800PSI. How much does this matter? My working pressure is 20PSI using my reactor and I tuned the needle valve to about 2 bps. Not sure if that's too little or too much yet.


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

I find I can play the working pressure and needle valve both up or down to get close to the same result. More pressure through a smaller opening on the needle valve will often give the same bubble count as less pressure through a bigger opening. If you had a diffuser like a ceramic, etc. they might require a higher pressure but the reactor will work for even some really low pressures. Since I use cheap tubing and barbed fittings without clamps, I normally run pretty low pressure like 8-10PSI.


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## RyanMan (Sep 14, 2013)

PlantedRich said:


> I find I can play the working pressure and needle valve both up or down to get close to the same result. More pressure through a smaller opening on the needle valve will often give the same bubble count as less pressure through a bigger opening. If you had a diffuser like a ceramic, etc. they might require a higher pressure but the reactor will work for even some really low pressures. Since I use cheap tubing and barbed fittings without clamps, I normally run pretty low pressure like 8-10PSI.



Can you explain to me, or direct me towards, how the regulator works? I mean, when I set it up the instructions clearly state to turn the adjustment screw counter-clockwise until it is loose. When you open the cylinder, the working pressure is zero. But as you turn the screw clockwise and tighten it, the working pressure increases. How does this work? And does that mean that when the screw is loose it is completely blocking the CO2 from progressing through the system? And as you tighten it, it is slowly opening to release CO2?


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## RyanMan (Sep 14, 2013)

When using a canister filter I see that lots of people position the output near the surface pointing slightly upwards to create surface agitation. Now I assume this is to remove the protein layer. I do this as well and it keeps the surface crystal clear, but is this affecting the dissolved CO2? I use a reactor so should I even be worried about off-gassing the CO2?


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## Chiefston (Dec 25, 2011)

Increased surface agitation will off gas CO2 considerably. It's a trade off between increased O2/less surface scum and dissolved CO2. When I first setup my tank, I had the spray bar pointed up with lots of surface agitation, and barely got a green drop checker with 4-5bps. I rotated the spray bar down reduce agitation and that alone made my drop checker start turning yellow. But now I get surface film. Trade offs....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## RyanMan (Sep 14, 2013)

Chiefston said:


> Increased surface agitation will off gas CO2 considerably. It's a trade off between increased O2/less surface scum and dissolved CO2. When I first setup my tank, I had the spray bar pointed up with lots of surface agitation, and barely got a green drop checker with 4-5bps. I rotated the spray bar down reduce agitation and that alone made my drop checker start turning yellow. But now I get surface film. Trade offs....
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Ok that's what I was looking for! My drop checker is not quite lime green and I'm going about 4bps right now. My tank also is pretty low light so I was wondering what's up.


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## The draft (Feb 21, 2006)

When using a sump with a wet dry area I read they are duck taping sealing the area wear the water is trickling over bio balls. Is this also helping off gasing?


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## RyanMan (Sep 14, 2013)

The draft said:


> When using a sump with a wet dry area I read they are duck taping sealing the area wear the water is trickling over bio balls. Is this also helping off gasing?



Maybe someone else has an answer, but I know very little about sumps. I'm just topping up my water more often to see how the concentration of CO2 increases.


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

RyanMan said:


> Can you explain to me, or direct me towards, how the regulator works? I mean, when I set it up the instructions clearly state to turn the adjustment screw counter-clockwise until it is loose. When you open the cylinder, the working pressure is zero. But as you turn the screw clockwise and tighten it, the working pressure increases. How does this work? And does that mean that when the screw is loose it is completely blocking the CO2 from progressing through the system? And as you tighten it, it is slowly opening to release CO2?


 
Kind of slow on seeing this!
Reason for turning the adjustment full counterclock or unscrewed is the way the reg works. For simple, the reg kind of balances the incoming pressure and the out going. As we turn it clockwise it presses a diaphram to open it slightly more. If we forget to turn the outgoing or working pressure down when we open the tank valve, it is possible for the really high (800-100PSI? ) tank pressure to go through to the working side just for a second until it gets it's act together. When I did this, I heard a pop, the low pressure gauge pecked at top and then I had an internal leak in that meter. Looking back I find that I had just let 800PSI hit my 0-100PSI meter. I Replaced meter and try not to repeat that again.
I think backing it all the way off will shut off all flow but I've not tried it that way.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

PlantedRich said:


> Kind of slow on seeing this!
> Reason for turning the adjustment full counterclock or unscrewed is the way the reg works. For simple, the reg kind of balances the incoming pressure and the out going. As we turn it clockwise it presses a diaphram to open it slightly more. If we forget to turn the outgoing or working pressure down when we open the tank valve, it is possible for the really high (800-100PSI? ) tank pressure to go through to the working side just for a second until it gets it's act together. When I did this, I heard a pop, the low pressure gauge pecked at top and then I had an internal leak in that meter. Looking back I find that I had just let 800PSI hit my 0-100PSI meter. I Replaced meter and try not to repeat that again.
> I think backing it all the way off will shut off all flow but I've not tried it that way.











http://www.beswick.com/basics-pressure-regulators

Pressure Regulators in Operation:



> A pressure regulator is comprised of three functional elements; a pressure reducing or restrictive element (generally a poppet valve), a sensing element (generally a diaphragm or piston) and a reference force element (generally a spring). In operation, the spring produces a force which opens the valve. Pressure introduced into the inlet port then flows through the valve and then presses against the sensing device (diaphragm or piston). The regulated pressure acts on the sensing element to produce a force which opposes the spring force and closes the valve


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