# H2O2 dip % ?



## DogFish

I'd like to try a H2O2 dip for some Trident Java ferns. I've had a few grow-out tubs outside this summer. I had them in various spots to get a feel for how long a photo period would effect growth of various plants.

Did see that 6am to 8-9pm was just a bit too much for one tub. I have some green hair algae on some of the Java ferns and in some Taiwan moss. I'd like to try a brief DIP of H2O2. I'd like some guidance on how strong a solution for a brief DIP.

Thank You


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## Jeffww

Hair algae isn't going to be harmed by h2o2. If you kill the hair algae you'll have killed or severly harmed the plants. Just bleach dip them. 1 cup bleach to 19 cups water and keep them submered for 3-4 minutes. After which, thoroughly rinse with clean water and then leave them to soak with water and lots of dechlor (10-20x dose).


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## OverStocked

Jeffww said:


> Hair algae isn't going to be harmed by h2o2. If you kill the hair algae you'll have killed or severly harmed the plants. Just bleach dip them. 1 cup bleach to 19 cups water and keep them submered for 3-4 minutes. After which, thoroughly rinse with clean water and then leave them to soak with water and lots of dechlor (10-20x dose).


If rinsed, no need for a 20x dose. 3-5 x dose would be suffiecient. If allowed to soak in a clean water tank after rinse and adding normal dechlor, bleach will be gone in 24 hours. It evaporates quickly.


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## DogFish

Interesting I just read a mind numbing thread on another forum that raved about H2O2's effect on Green hair Algae.

www.guppies.com/forums/showthread.php/21075-BBA-Thread-Hair-Algae-Kill-with-Hydrogen-Peroxide-H2O2

They were doing a 6 hr. bath of 5ml to a gal of water. SO, I thought maybe higher dose less dwell time?

It seems H2O2 might be less stess than bleach?


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## Jeffww

Hmm...interesting. That seems like a really low concentration and clado is known to be nuke proof. I suspect the algae was on its way out already and the h2o2 just helped it along.


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## DogFish

I agree about being objective.

I think I'll run a test..in the name of Science...LOL

I use the bleach 1:19 @ 3min. Then a 2x dose of HO2O- 5ml: 66oz for 3min. and a 4x dose of H2O2 5ml: 33 oz for 3min.

I'd offer my plants are healthy, strong rhizomes, new growth, strong roots. The hair algae is healthy & new also.


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## Jeffww

Sounds like a plan. And yes. In the long run H2O2 is a lot less rough on plants. But in my experience dipping plants in H2O2 only ever helped with staghorn and bba. Clado and stuff like oedogoium came out unscathed.


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## DogFish

Jeff - Do you remember how much H2O2-H2O ratio you used & how long you dipped them? I could use your experience as a baseline.


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## Jeffww

I use 3% h2o2 straight out of the bottle and mist my plants before I put them in the tank. If I'm dosing in the tank I spot treat using a pipette.


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## wkndracer

While not directly related to plant dips I use 3% H2O2 regularly here.

Based on recommendations received on a breeder site I use 3% H2O2 at up to 10ml/g as a dip for external fungus and parasite treatments on angelfish. Garrett claimed this solution was strong enough to kill algae and practically all bacteria and parasites, protozoan’s, etc. Other than his word I have no proof of this but have used this level of solution and had fish recover and external symptoms not return. 
2-3 hour soak then 50% WC, 24hrs. later another 25% WC and the treatment is complete.

Tanks are scattered throughout my home so I use a 45' siphon hose to reach the exterior when draining tanks doing water changes. I have a 6' tail hose I sterilize between tanks but the main hose gets quite nasty over time never drying out. 

3qts/1-1/2 gallons of water once a month or so is used on the main hose to clean it.


























While exactly what is growing within the hose is unknown to me I do know 72hrs of circulation takes the hose from this,









To this









I don't use bleach.


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## DogFish

wkndracer said:


> ...Based on recommendations received on a breeder site I use 3% H2O2 at up to 10ml/g as a dip for external fungus and parasite treatments on angelfish. Garrett claimed this solution was strong enough to kill algae and practically all bacteria and parasites, protozoan’s, etc. Other than his word I have no proof of this but have used this level of solution and had fish recover and external symptoms not return.
> 2-3 hour soak then 50% WC, 24hrs. later another 25% WC and the treatment is complete...


That is actually very related to the topic. So, now, I think I'll modify my tests

5ml:gl., 5ml:1/2gal, 5ml:qt. Do them all for 1hr. rise, soak and pn an Algae free container. I should mist one straight, a maybe leave the H2O2 on for 5min,. too. This should be interesting.

wkndracer - Are those planted tanks or breeder tanks? Curious about an observations on plants you might have had or Algae growth in breeding tanks.


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## RandomMan

Any updates?


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## DogFish

Yes, but not on the proposed test.

I've had a tub of e.belem out for two months, rear deck afternoon Sun. Moved it to the front of the house near my thai chilies. Full sun all day. Mostly as a learning experiment.

As you might guess I got hair algae.

The tub has appx 1gl water over 2" of MTS & 1/2 sand cap. I've keep the water 2" over the belem. 2x week water changes light ferts.

So first I physically remove as much hair algae as I could. Drained the tub. Layed paper towels over the "crop" and picked up more algae.

2nd added 10ML H2O2 to 1gal water and let it work for 1hr.

4days later I believe most of the algae was dead or dying. The plants looked fine.

My time line to use those plants has moved up. I don't want to introduce the hair algae to the new tank so, I decided to hit it again.

Today I repeated the clean up protocol. 

After the tub was drained I use a spray bottle and hit the plants, sand & tub wall with straight 3% H2O2. Let it cook for 5min. added a gl of water let that sit for 1hr. Then drained the tub and refilled with fresh water.

Did that at 9am. we only had a few hours of morning sun then over cadst, light misty rain in the evening. Tomorrow I'll give it 1/2 sun them. It comes indoor as a cold front is coming in. We've been in the 90's..going to 68 daytime, so maybe 50 night?

Indoors I have some other growout aquariums, both sub/emersed. I'll put this test tub with them, I'll report on it in a week.

I hope to set up my nano next Friday, Hopefuly, I'll have clean belem.


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## DogFish

Just changed out the water again, prior to bringing them indoors as our temps dropped.

NO question the hair algae is NUKED. Now, let's see how well the plants bounce back.


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## HypnoticAquatic

i have had my hair algea get killed from h²o², if you still have the pots they were in why not try an pull out some of the algea and try h²o² for yourself and see if it works as if it works for you and you get a little transfered into your tank you know it will work... just a thought


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## dp12man

Hair algae is a pain and from time to time, I get an out brake as well. I does 5-7ml per 5 gallons straight into the tank. It sounds crazy but works really well. If the dose is right it should be completely gone in about 24-48hrs. Its amazing how quick it takes care of the issue. It will also kill bba and you still will need to trim the effected leaves.


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## DogFish

dp12man said:


> I does 5-7ml per gallon straight into the tank.


Thanks for contributing the the thread. roud:

Give us the tank specs, size, fish, inverts. If you keep fish & inverts in the tank any affect on them? Are you following up with a water change?

This can become one of those threads that might help fellow members.


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## dp12man

I edited my last post. The dose actually comes out to be about 1-1.4 ml per gallon.

I have a 40 gallon breeder. It has about 8-9 ottos and blue pearl shrimp.
Its been 4 days since my first treated and I have seen no affect on the livestock.
And as for any plant melting, just a few older leaves at the very bottom of my longer stems(6"+). Things I would normally trim away. But the first initial treatment seemed to get the hair algae in about two days.

I did a second dose last night and will see how it affects the tank.


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## Abrium

All algae, in my experience, will eventually fall to peroxide whether it is being dosed in the tank or dipped in an external. This is my experience and I use it quite frequently. If I even see discoloration on my plants I use peroxide and the fish love the immense oxegenation.


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## DogFish

It's been well over a week and I believe not only the hair Algae is gone , the plants are healthy too.

To recap:

I think the 10ml. per gal with a 1 hour dwell time, followed by a complete water change did solve the problem.

Would a 30 or 50% water change have been enough...Maybe?

The complete drain to expose the Algae, full strenght mist of H2O2, fill with water to dilute/flush, then 100% was most likely unneeded follow-up. However, I think either method would be safe.

_This is far from definative scientic method_ :wink: 

So, proceed in you own Aquarium with due caution. I do feel that using H2O2 is a safer/greener alternative to chemical warfare. 

I encourage other that use H2O2 to add to the thread. Please include your dosing protocols. I think that would help the other members


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## wkndracer

DogFish said:


> wkndracer - Are those planted tanks or breeder tanks? Curious about an observations on plants you might have had or Algae growth in breeding tanks.


sorry, as I missed the last of this post or would have replied sooner.

All my tanks are fully planted systems even the quarantine tank.
Algae in a spawn tank is another food source. Juveniles can be seen actively pecking/grazing on algae. BBS are the primary food starting out but diatom and other alga's are good even with Angels not just the LFABN Ancistrus I have routinely spawning here.
I don't achieve breeder level success rates in my tanks.
The fit survive. Spawns average about 50 or less each time.
My third generation in house standards and the current batch of DDSV are the first to exceed that range.

Questions have been raised on my favorite breeder site, bacteria Q's regarding my reduce survival rate as opposed to bare breeding tanks.

I believe predation and early difficulty with currents, finding food, simply getting lost takes more fry here than bacteria. These systems are a more natural setting, not natural habitat for angels per say but a natural manor of tanking. Once fully cycled a balance between plant growth and animal load is my tanking goal mainly. The fish and health of the systems I keep rely on the plant mass to remain balanced. Plants filter my water. Most of my tanks no longer even have whats considered by most to be proper filtration. 

Predation accounts for over 90% I'm certain. Even the smallest snail will eat wigglers without dedicated parents to protect them.



DogFish said:


> It's been well over a week and I believe not only the hair Algae is gone , the plants are healthy too.
> 
> To recap:
> 
> I think the 10ml. per gal with a 1 hour dwell time, followed by a complete water change did solve the problem.
> 
> Would a 30 or 50% water change have been enough...Maybe?
> 
> The complete drain to expose the Algae, full strenght mist of HO2O, fill with water to dilute/flush, then 100% was most likely unneeded follow-up. However, I think either method would be safe.
> 
> _This is far from definative scientic method_ :wink:
> 
> So, proceed in you own Aquarium with due caution. I do feel that using HO2O is a safer/greener alternative to chemical warfare.
> 
> I encourage other that use HO2O to add to the thread. Please include your dosing protocols. I think that would help the other members


Found it interesting that you settled on 10ml/g. That level of treatment when I've posted it in the past has meet shocked response from the membership with fish involved. Being plants only maybe you're results will be better received.
Here's only one of Garrets threads.
http://www.angelfish.net/VBulletin/showthread.php?t=16419
*Hydrogen Peroxide and Perox-aid*

he's the breeder that actually prompted me to look into higher dosing levels

DogFish you created a good thread here (imo)


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## DogFish

wkndracer said:


> ....I don't achieve breeder level success rates in my tanks.The fit survive. Spawns average about 50 or less each time.
> My third generation in house standards and the current batch of DDSV are the first to exceed that range.
> 
> Questions have been raised on my favorite breeder site, bacteria Q's regarding my reduce survival rate as opposed to bare breeding tanks.


Well of course your spawn success numbers are going to be lower because you keep a more natural Aquarium. The very reason fish have so many eggs is because there will naturally be massive losses. I used to have about 90+ sucess rate in artifically hatching out Angel eggs. at one point I lost very few fry. Insane amount of time invested, bare tanks, daily cleaning after feeding, small daily water changes. What I noticed was a I more defects surviving, that would have died off in a planted tank or with less diligence.

I my eyes you are raising a stronger healthier fish.



wkndracer said:


> Found it interesting that you settled on 10ml/g.


OP in the thread I linked to a site were people were dosing 5ml per gallon and letting the H2O2 dilute in the tank and break down out of solution.
I felt doubling the dose with a short dwell time probably wasn't that radical especially because I flushed the tub with a full water change.

I am thinking that the full strenght mist of H2O2, hitting not only the Algae but all the surfaces in the tank is the way to go, I don't think a flush of all new water is needed.

I think if I had.have an outbreak in a planted tank with fish, I'd pull the fish and keep them in buckets of the drained water. drop my water all the way down, full strenght mist of H2O2 on every surface. Then return the water & fish...with maybe a 20% water change. The reason - using a spray bottle one can get more HO2O in the tank that one might think pretty fast





wkndracer said:


> DogFish you created a good thread here (imo)


Thanks but, to really be a great thread we need more data, and feedback from people like you that use H2O2 on a regular basis.


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## Abrium

yes 30 to 50% is fine for WC after dosing your tank. I mean once the bond is broken at the molecular level peroxide turns into water and oxygen... You just can't go wrong with that and it kills algae to boot!


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## DarkCobra

Did a H2O2 dip a few days ago. 15ml/G for 15 minutes. Removed BBA from Blyxa Japonica without harm to the plants.

Keep in mind that while light does eventually break down H2O2, it takes days of full sunlight to do so. Aquarium lighting will not remove excess in any timely fashion, nor will leaving lights on affect the efficiency of a treatment. After the easy stuff like bacteria, mulm, and algae are oxidized, any remaining H2O2 will continue slowly reacting with plants and livestock; unless removed by a water change.

3ml/G is generally considered safe for livestock as an in-tank dose, with no water change. But the actual safe/effective dose is highly dependent on tank conditions. For example, 15ml/G with no water change would be harmful in a very clean tank. But add that to a tank with pea-soup greenwater, and it will be so quickly consumed in reaction with the algae, that the livestock and plants will be completely unaffected (as well as some portion of the algae).

So for in-tank treatments, I sometimes go above 3ml/G if soon followed up with a large water change. Or if I'm applying it as a spot treatment to something it vigorously reacts with, meaning a significant portion of it is immediately consumed.


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## Aquaticz

Sometimes I have hair algea and use H2o2 straight from the bottle. First I drain 50-75% of the water. Then I turn off the filter and any other equipment that moves water. I wait a minute or two. Then I use 3 to 4 ml/per gallon and deliver via a syringe (60 ml) to slowly place the H2o2 where it needs to be. I wait 10 minutes and add fresh water and use a conditioner. It s dead the next day & ready for hand removal. I usually have to do this 3-4 weeks & then I am done. Don't know why but this happens to one tank on ocassion which is what gets me. I think it could be a Co2 thing but I am guessing


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## firefiend

3mL/gallon killed all my nerite sails and E. Najas plant after 1 dose. Has anyone tried the 10mL/gallon with nerites and najas?

I've had good results at 1.5mL/gallon but it was without nerites and Najas, lol.


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## RonPaul

I killed BBA with 1mL/G. Dosed 10 mL in the water column and 10mL into the substrate with a pipette. The whole tank started bubbling. Did this 3 night in a row then did a regular 25% water change. That was over a yr ago and I never seen BBA again (fingers crossed). BTW - I didn't use OTC H2O2. I bought 35% food grade and diluted it with distilled water 1:11. There are stabilizers in the OTC that I didn't want to put in the tank.


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## happi

sorry to hijack your thread, but i have a quick question:

why cant we use Ho2o along with EI dosing? i mean if it helps the plant and fish so why not. i have read that Ho2o evaporate fast from the water then why do we need to change the water after adding it? cant we just use this 3x a week and then do the 50% water change?


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## Abrium

Dosing H2O2 as part of the weekly regiment. I feel I'm not qualified to provide suggestions regarding this as a practice but like I said:


> once the bond is broken at the molecular level peroxide turns into water and oxygen


So... knowing that I don't understand why it couldn't be used but animals have died because of use. 

I can't wait to see some of the responses to this question. That is a great hijacking and may even warrant its own thread for discussion.

Good question happi.


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## DarkCobra

H2O2 oxidizes (destroys) all organic matter indiscriminately. Algae just gets the worst of it because it has a high surface-to-volume ratio, and little to protect against H2O2.

Higher organisms have protective measures to slow down H2O2. Plants have wax coatings. Fish have slime and antioxidants. But those protections aren't perfect. Even chipping away at those protections isn't justified unless there's some actual benefit.

If there is no parasitic algae, there is no benefit for plants.

And if fish already have ample O2, and no diseases that may be cured by H2O2, then there is no benefit for fish.

Fish gills are delicate. Damage may lead to scarring that's cumulative over the life of a fish. If you destroy 1% of their gill capacity every now and then to knock out the rare algae infestation, it's no big deal. But if you turn it into a regular ritual, you _may_ noticeably shorten the life of the fish. And it may succumb to transient events that would otherwise be survivable (low O2, high CO2, diseases).

Every substance that acts as an effective algaecide is in some way destructive or toxic, to all living things, to at least some degree. That's why _preventing_ algae through proper tank conditions is preferable to _killing_ algae.


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## RonPaul

The h2o2 didnt seem to effect my fish negatively at all. They would swim to and play in the bubbles that were created by the h2o2. My tank isn't starved of o2 either, co2 during the day o2 bubbler at night. They were just having fun. I think if its dosed in small diluted quantities there's no harm. Dark Cobra is right though, you want to prevent algae and not rely on h2o2. BTW - I take very good care of my tanks and their inhabitants. Ritualized cleaning and water changes but I have to say I never saw the tank water so crystal clear as after dosing it. 
Take care,
RP


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## wkndracer

happi said:


> why cant we use Ho2o along with EI dosing? i mean if it helps the plant and fish so why not. i have read that Ho2o evaporate fast from the water then why do we need to change the water after adding it? cant we just use this 3x a week and then do the 50% water change?


Effective dosing levels of H2O2 used to kill algae beyond simple spot treatments kill bacteria also. 
Dosing @ 10ml/g I shut the filter down to protect my cycled media and do a 50% WC after 2hrs before starting my canisters again.
I hope DarkCobra's post was information enough the dissuade you from routine dosing but if not wanted to add a second opinion.


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## DogFish

The preventive is ongoing maintence to develop the proper balance of light, ferts., water changes & plant and bio-load.

H202 use should be a treatment to a problem. Not unlike a human taking antibiotics.


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## happi

nicely explained Darkcobra. 

i guess i will stick with the excel just in case if i ever get any algae.


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## Jeffww

I never dose more than 4ml/gallon in spot treatments. I always measure out 50ml of H2O2 and then do my spot treatment and stop even if I'm not done by the time I run out.


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## kuro

Did you notice any side effect with the moss when dosing with hydrogen peroxide?


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## zigfly78

I just set up a 55gal tank with no fish....but I did use a cycling method I found online which involved throwing a couple raw shrimp into the tank. I now have several forms of algae and also the dreaded hair algae growing roughly 1/2 inch per day on my plants (stringy brown). I want to H202 dose the tank before adding fish. I also have CO2 DIY injection and the plants are pearling nicely. I still have 1ppm ammonia, but its dropping daily.

Here is the question.....should I turn off my canister filters? Will the H202 kill the good bacteria in the tank and filters which I just spent a couple weeks cycling for? I will try the 3ml/gal method with filters off.


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## wkndracer

wait out the cycle would be my choice.
0.0 NH3 and NO2 then treat the algae or do a double dose of excel but I wouldn't use peroxide at all until the cycle was completed


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## DogFish

Bump to help a hair algae problem.


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## kubalik

Hey guys 
I just doesed 60ml of h2o2 to my 70 gal. tank and 15 minutes after one of my juvie discus went in the corner of the tank and just sat on the ground there , 3 others were good . I waited another 30 minutes , nothing changed , I did a 50% WC . My affected discus started swimming fine. I will try it again in a few days .


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## DogFish

Spot Dosing

My protocol:

Turn off filters
Fill syringe with 2 ml per total tank volume size* (not actually water).
Direct a small amount directly on the algae underwater
Wait 15min
Do 50% water change
2hrs later turn filters back on

Wait 1 wk before additional spot dosing.

* 40gl tank would get 80ml of H2O2 MAX.

_*I advise against going over 2ml per gl. *_


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## mistergreen

Some fish are more sensitive than others especially the scaleless ones. I spot treat .5ml/Gallon.


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## DogFish

mistergreen said:


> Some fish are more sensitive than others especially the scaleless ones. I spot treat .5ml/Gallon.


Good point. 

Would you have a sensitive fish list from your experiences?


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## mistergreen

I'd put all of catfish, plecos, and loaches on the sensitive list. I'd see scar tissues if I over did the H2O2.


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## moonwasaloon

I have spotted treated with h202, and didn't do anything to the algae =(

It's a 10 Gallon tank with staghorn algae on crypt, blyxa, and sunset hygro.

I treated about 2ml per gallon, turned the filter off for 2 hours and followed by a water change.


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## kuro

How old was the peroxide you used? turn off the light after you dose the peroxide since light can quickly break down peroxide. You don't have to do water change after dosing peroxide since it quickly convert to water and oxygen.


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## moonwasaloon

ah poop, I had the light on!


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## DogFish

TIME OUT!!! Go back are read the thread H2O2 does not breach down that fast.

moonwasaloon - Was the H2O2 a fresh bottle ?

When I spot treat I can see the Hair algae melt as I inject there H2O2, so this doesn't sound right.


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## xxbenjamminxx

I just tried spot treating my algae, what I believe is staghorn as well, with H2O2 so we will see what happens. I dosed about 70ml into my 75g tank in the affected spots and got some bubbling but no "Melting" of the algae what-so-ever. I had the filters off and waited almost an hour before turning them back on. 

Hoping this will help, but if not I am upping my dose to 140ml and the waiting time to 2 hours and see if that will nuke it. My glosso is starting to get taken over as well as my java ferns. I tried this dose the same way about 3 days ago and didnt not see much change so hoping this one will do more. Def got more bubbling this time tho.

Maybe staghorn is too stubborn for the H2O2 treatment? I sure hope not!


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## tlyons01

I feel like an idiot, but I thought I should post my experience whether or not things are said about my stupidity.

I decided today to dose H2O2 as I have been trying to rid my tank of several algae types. I thought a 10ml per gallon "bath" was my way to go. So, no I didn't read through the whole thread before I attempted this. Today is my 50% WC day. After I removed the water, I added the peroxide. Was going to let it sit for an hour, but after about 30 min I noticed my fish were coming up a lot to get air (cory and oto), and a group of them were breathing at the surface (rasbora and neon). I promptly added my prime and then refilled the tank. I had to leave and was gone for a few hours. Came home to 4 dead rasbora, one dead neon, and I have lost 2 otos. I have other otos that are almost out of the tank, sliding up and out of the tank at the water level. I have them now in my QT tank and I performed another 50% wc.

I would rather live with algae than kill my fish. So far, all of the cory are ok. They have still been coming up for air, there are bubbles in the water, tiny ones. Not sure if that is CO2 or H2O2, as my plants are pearling from the water change.

Please don't be an idiot like me


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## DogFish

tlyons01 - Don't beat yourself up too bad. There's not a member here that hasn't done something they regretted with the hobby.


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## DogFish

Lately, I've been pulling my potted plants out of my outdoor emersed tank and my Whiskey Barrel pond to treat H2O2 with a spray bottle. I give the treated pot/plant 1-3min. "sizzle" time. Then either back in the pond or in a rinse bucket then back into the emerged tank. So, far this has been very successful. 

If one had like Java or Anubius in a drift wood or Rock in their tank this idea would work, better I think, than spot treatments or water column dosing.

The big CAUTION point is the DWELL TIME. 

I do 3min. on Emersed Crypts, less on Submersed plants. 

All new plants (Buy/Trade) get misted for a 1min. before they go into any of my tanks.


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## wkndracer

I did 3min or there about on Anubius with a new bottle of 3% and a week later see the yellow of tissue damage on many of the leaves. Use at you're own risk as results can vary widely for odd reasons.


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## golfwang

Hey DogFish,
I have 4 mosses on 2x2 stainless steel mesh I was wondering how much H2O2 I should use to remove thread/hair algae and how long should I have them submerged in an external bucket for?


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## Aganor

I used H2O2 to try to get rid of a white fuzzy fungus on my emersed Hemianthus Callitrichoides and the only thing i got was whitered leaves and the fungus laughing at me, using a 3% H202 solution sprayed all over..

I guess H202 wont deal with fungus but is still hard on small plants :/


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## Pakman

I'm looking to deal with hair alge on some stem plants. They are getting too tall so will be doing a trim and replanting anyhow, so was thinking about a spray, rinse and replant. 
Will a H202 spray for 1-2 min harm the plants if they are at the same time trying to re-establish roots (i.e trimmed, and being replanted). 
Is the recommendation, to spray, then manually remove the hair algae, or just rinse and put it back in the tank?
thanks in advance for your advice...


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## miktrebor

Anyone know whether food grade h202 vs non-food grade h202 matters when treating planted tank? I have BBA....also snails and shrimp. Also: should I external dip plants, spot treat in tank, or whole tank treat? For latter, i was thinking 1.5ml of 3% h202 per gallon....Thanks!


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