# Whats wrong with my Angelfish's Anus? Please help :'C



## TINNGG (Mar 9, 2005)

Worms I think. And if they're what I think they are, levimisole is the prescribed treatment. Are they eating? If so, you can try medicated food.


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

AngelsPlus.com "Purple flake" work's well for me.
Well worth ordering online just to have some available.
In a pinch,I have mixed up flake food and minced garlic to form a kind of paste and then froze this and break off chunk's to feed the fish and re-freeze..
Garlic is not all that well received by many intestinal parasites.
Can also mix powdered med's with equal amount of fish food and a bit of water and again,make a kind of paste.
Feed the fish only this food, for three to seven day's and then perform 50% water change and see what stool look's like (gotta watch).
Can repeat if needed.
Epsom salt can relieve bloating as per suggested dose which is I think one tablespoon per 10 gal of water in planted tank , but I might isolate the fish if possible for I am unclear what affect it might have on fishes like loaches,cory's,pleco's.
Usually my fishes get bloated when I feed too much, too often in an effort to get young fishes to grow more quickly. I only feed other's once every other day. 
Large weekly water change is almost mandatory when feeding a bunch of fish as opposed to just a few, but it never hurt's anything to do large water changes unless..water changes are far and few between.
Too much of a sudden change then, and smaller water changes perhap's every other day would be less stressful and then can work up to large single water change.
It seem's I digress, Hope some of this help's.


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## n25philly (Dec 12, 2013)

TINNGG said:


> Worms I think. And if they're what I think they are, levimisole is the prescribed treatment. Are they eating? If so, you can try medicated food.


You are right, they are camallanus worms. You can find Levamisole on aquabid. Don't both wasting time with anything else, it's pretty much the only thing that works. Get it as soon as you can too, when it reaches the point where you can see the worms sticking out it means that it is pretty bad and they are already laying eggs inside of your fish. Also don't move it to a hospital tank as you have to treat the entire tank anyway or it will just come back.


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

Angelsplus.com also makes medicated food with primary ingredient Levamisole.
Much more effective if you can get fish to eat the meds as opposed to treating the water.


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## WaterLife (Jul 1, 2015)

Yeah when dealing with Callamanus worms (Nematode) don't waste time and money on Praziquantel or Metronidazole. You need Levamisole or Fenbendazole. Best to administer the med through medicated food feeding.

From what I have heard, Fenbendazole is a bit easier/less harsh on the fish. But it may be a little harder to come by. Though AngelsPlus as roadmaster listed is a good source (they have both, though I would've preferred the med be in a pellet). Levamisole is still said to be just as effective and still not too hard on fish.
http://www.angelsplus.com/FlakeMedWorm.htm

You can get Levamisole Hydrochloride (HCl). Levamisole can be found in common animal dewormers, so it might be available locally (might find it at a farm supply store or even a veterinary clinic). Do research as I am not sure what brand animal dewormers contain Levamisole as the ingredient.


Here is a little write up I just saw and the author mentions their experience
ZebraPleco ? The complete Hypancistrus zebra resource


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## TLentzFilm (Feb 24, 2016)

roadmaster said:


> AngelsPlus.com "Purple flake" work's well for me.
> Well worth ordering online just to have some available.
> In a pinch,I have mixed up flake food and minced garlic to form a kind of paste and then froze this and break off chunk's to feed the fish and re-freeze..
> Garlic is not all that well received by many intestinal parasites.
> ...


Thank you, Thank you, Thank you.

I just purchased the medicated food with levamisole from angelsplus.

Going to the store for minced garlic after work until the package gets delivered.


Thank you all for the quick responses. I'm feeling very relieved, as I read a post saying it could lead to the need of killing all fishes in the tank.


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## n25philly (Dec 12, 2013)

You have to treat the water with camallanus worms. If you don't you will just end up having the problem again. Feeding just the fish won't solve the problem, it will just help the fish itself temporarily. Even if you are lucky enough that all of the worms are in the fish itself, the eggs will end up coming out with the worms, hatch and in time you will be back to square one. The only effective way to beat camallanus worms is to treat everything.


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

n25philly said:


> You have to treat the water with camallanus worms. If you don't you will just end up having the problem again. Feeding just the fish won't solve the problem, it will just help the fish itself temporarily. Even if you are lucky enough that all of the worms are in the fish itself, the eggs will end up coming out with the worms, hatch and in time you will be back to square one. The only effective way to beat camallanus worms is to treat everything.


 
I do not agree .
Have treated Angelfish,South American cichlid's,Discus, and a few other's with medicated food containing prazi,and also levamisole.
If symptom's reappear, treat again.(seldom takes more than twice)
Water changes plus vaccumming the substrate also help.


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## TLentzFilm (Feb 24, 2016)

I'm currently feeding a mixture of minced garlic, frozen shreded brine shrimp, and flakes. And nothing else.
It seems like the angel fish hesitate, but put it in their mouths. Although, 70% of it they spit out. 
Waiting for the shrimpment (See what I did there) to come in of the medicated food.


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## bsantucci (Sep 30, 2013)

Dosing the full tank with levisamole is the only way to be certain you rid your tank of these. You have to do both doses. When you see those worms it's too late and they are dropping eggs all day. The eggs hatch in 2 weeks or so which is why you treat the tank a second time in 2 weeks.... To knock of those larvae. The blackout period recommended is necessary and so is the large water change after. 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## TLentzFilm (Feb 24, 2016)

You guys, I don't know what to do :C

I'm trying to give them the angelplus food, but they just refuse to eat it within 10 seconds (like the website said they need too)

I'm at the point where I'm just about to restart the tank, but I have no tank to hold them in as I do this, and I don't know what to do with the angelfish...

:/


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## bsantucci (Sep 30, 2013)

See my post above. Only way to get rid of them. There is no question about it...levisamole with 3 day blackout and near 100 perfect water change. Then same procedure 3 weeks later. 

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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

I just found a cheap dewormer locally that is Levamisole hydrochloride, (Prohibit).
comes in a 52g packet, enough to dose about 100gallon six times.

I definitely need to do a coarse on my tanks. Tried to grow infusoria from the filter wash water.... I can see snake like worms swimming in it.


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

OK had a chat with a vet this morning. She recommended two other products with higher purity.
Prodose red and Ripercol-l, 99% Levamisole Hydrochloride in water soluble granule form.

Cost less than $10 for a 128g (4.5oz) bag. You should be able to get it at the coop if you have sheep farmers in the area, no prescription needed.



> Dr. Roy Yanong, V.M.D. recommends the following for treating fish with internal parasites susceptible to Levamisole HCl:
> 
> "In answer to your question, the dosage rate for levamisole in a bath is 2 mg/L (2 ppm) for 24 hours (followed by 70-100% water change, and siphon the bottoms of the tanks), with repeat treatments necessary--retreat in 2-3 weeks, and probably one more time after that. This is regardless of size of fish."
> 
> The 2 mg/L dosage rate (of the active ingredient Levamisole) is currently (2007) the level being used by the scientific community. It effectively paralyzes Levamisole susceptible parasites at that concentration. Increasing the dosage level does not seem to have any greater effect. (Another good reason to avoid overdosing.) Paralysis of the worms takes place when that level of Levamisole is present in the host--your fish. Dr. Yanong recommends, whenever possible, trying to diagnose what parasite your fish are harboring prior to treatment. Work with an 'exotic pet' veterinarian, or a fish health specialist to insure you are treating with the right medication.


 quoted from Loaches dot com


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## TINNGG (Mar 9, 2005)

You know, you could have made your life simpler by getting a container of it when you got the medicated food from Angels Plus. Their dosage is also dumbed down so us old fogies who've forgotten what little metric we had can avoid looking up conversions. 

That said, the last time I used it - a million years ago - I picked up a large, mostly empty jar at a feed store, followed mixing directions, and grabbed a pipette to measure the dosage. Could only guess I got it right because different brands = different concentrations. Fish died anyway but it came from wallyworld so it's anyone's guess what actually killed it.


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

Lol, you know it is only like 4 countries in the world where the people can count on all 12 of their fingers and toes.

Buy a gram scale for $10 and you can use google to convert your gallons to litre. Let me google that for you

Or use the table on this page. http://subquaria.com/Levamisole-HCl-Powder


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## TINNGG (Mar 9, 2005)

I have a scale. Does that include thumbs too?

I've always wondered if the various aquarium pharmaceuticals took into account displacement from decorations. I know what it holds bare bottom, but adding stuff complicates things. When I first got it, I had the brilliant idea of marking off water levels on one corner, using tulip paint (it's a plasticky fabric paint). I marked off every three gallons. I can't see said guide now as there's another tank in the way. I guesstimated once that I lost 15 gallons of capacity with substrate, etc.


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

One fixes this at the start (if you are anal).
Insert hardscape, then use a bucket so you can pour a KNOWN amount of water in. Lets say 5 gallons is needed before all your hardscape disappears under water.
Now measure the volume of the water with a tape measure... Deduct the 5 known gallons, and you are left with the volume of your hardscape.

Now fill your tank, measure volume again and subtract the volume of your hardscape. 

But even if you didn't do this, the LD50 dose for levamisole is MUCH higher than what you dose the water with, so it should not be a problem.
The recommended dosage is based on the amount it takes to paralise the worms, upping the dose has no extra effect.


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## TINNGG (Mar 9, 2005)

That's about what I did. I just also marked off every 3 gallons so I always knew how much I took out. It's just that it's been a long..long...time since I did this.

I did get that there was a pretty decent bit of padding between dosage and the LD50.


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## TLentzFilm (Feb 24, 2016)

Well I don't know where this conversation has gone...

But here is an update.
I've dosed the tank with Levamisole, and the tank has been in complete darkness with it for ~20 hours so far.

I am really worried about one of the angelfish though... Before blacking it out, I noticed the mouth of one of the angels is stuck open, and looks like half of his bottom lip is just completely gone... I guess I'll see what happens in another 28 hours.

By the way, do I continue to feed the medicated flakes?


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## bsantucci (Sep 30, 2013)

TLentzFilm said:


> Well I don't know where this conversation has gone...
> 
> But here is an update.
> I've dosed the tank with Levamisole, and the tank has been in complete darkness with it for ~20 hours so far.
> ...


They won't eat while you're dosing. The drug kinda makes them a bit drunkish. I wouldn't feed until after you do the water change.


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## TLentzFilm (Feb 24, 2016)

bsantucci said:


> They won't eat while you're dosing. The drug kinda makes them a bit drunkish. I wouldn't feed until after you do the water change.


Thanks for the quick reply!


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## WaterLife (Jul 1, 2015)

TLentz, what product did you end up getting?

Thanks for the searches Nordic, although I am not sure if many of those particular brands are available in the US.


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

I did find a few that were US market, I will post it up later, thanks for the reminder.
I tried looking only for the water soluble 99% concentrate granules, but there were two I remember.
The bolus form can be a little messy, make sure to get the granules...

P.S. if you work with the fish a lot, I would suggest deworming your family too while you are at it.... just had to do my family.
My daughter went from refusing to eat ( I hate food daddy) to eating like a wolf.

Very NB: remember that a large part of this treatment depends on you removing as much of the water as possible and doing a good siphoning of the substrate.
You numb the worms, which then can't hold on to the fishes guts and get excreted into the water... then get rid of the water....
Repeat the treatment after 2 weeks.


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## TLentzFilm (Feb 24, 2016)

WaterLife said:


> TLentz, what product did you end up getting?
> 
> Thanks for the searches Nordic, although I am not sure if many of those particular brands are available in the US.


Levamisole HCL 100%
from Parasite and Fungal Medications for Fish


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## WaterLife (Jul 1, 2015)

Ah thanks! I haven't shopped through them yet and didn't know they carried it in that form (besides the medicated foods).

Anyone know if $14.95 for 25 grams of Levamisol HCl (Hydrochloride) is a good price in comparison to commonly available dewormers (same ingredient, yes the HCl form) that I might find through a veterinary clinic or farm supply store?
I haven't been shopping around for it so I don't know the pricing on how much it usually sells for.
Any specific locally found brand names?

Anyone use/recommend a different dosing instruction? I commonly see some people doing the treatment differently.


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## bsantucci (Sep 30, 2013)

That price is very good in regards to buying from the fish community. It's about half the price of what is available on aquabid. 

I can't vouch for that company's stock quality though. I purchased some bad or maybe fake Levisamole once from e*ay that didn't work. The seller MVP from aquabid has the real deal stuf though which worked great to fix my tank.

These are the directions I followed with great success.

DOSAGE: You simply mix the 5g packet of Levamisole HCl powder with 10 fluid ounces of water (1 1/4 cups) until it is well dissolved. One fluid ounce or two tablespoons of the mixed solution should be used for every 10 gallons of tank water. You can store any unused stock solution in a glass container with a plastic lid (don't use a metal lid) for up to 3 months in your refrigerator, but make sure it is properly labeled and not accessible to children.

DIRECTIONS: You should do a massive water change BEFORE you add the medication. Leave the medication in the tank for 3 days (72 hours), then do another massive water change. Massive water change means as close to 100% as possible. Your gravel (if you have any) should also be vacuumed to remove any dead worms. The dead, decaying worms can easily pollute your tank water, so the water changes are really important. There is no need to completely break down the tank and destroy any beneficial bacteria. You MUST repeat the treatment in 3 weeks, as any leftover dead worms may still have eggs that can reinfect your tank. You should feed your fish with high quality food (ex. frozen/live) during treatment as you want them to eat a lot of food to push out any dead worms from their gut. You need to observe your fish carefully for a few days after treatment. It is possible they may still have some dead worms inside of them that will start decaying and could cause a bacterial infection. Bloated bellies or the fish not eating may be an indication of this problem. Large fish seem to have an easier time expelling the dead worms. Be prepared to treat with antibiotics if necessary. Any dead fish should not be flushed down the toilet as you may be spreading the worms into the water system. Wrap the fish in newspaper and allow to completely dry before disposal. This medication is safe for plants and snails/invertebrates. Please keep this medication out of the reach of children. The Levamisole powder has a shelf life of ~2 years if kept in a cool dry environment and tightly sealed.


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

It s about twice what you would pay at a co-op but still not as extreme as some of the rebranded chemicals that are common in the hobby (hobby tax).


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