# 29 gallon Nature aquarium - hardscape critique requested



## 691175002 (Apr 28, 2009)

I like the overall layout but I think the rocks may not stand out enough once you have ground cover. Even the shallowest carpets will be 1-2" thick.


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## Supa Mint (Jul 5, 2016)

691175002 said:


> I like the overall layout but I think the rocks may not stand out enough once you have ground cover. Even the shallowest carpets will be 1-2" thick.


That's a good point. I put the rocks in for aesthetics and partially to support the slope. Maybe I could arrange them to be more upright, with the knowledge that the carpet will extend the 'ground' level up and inch or two. Otherwise, I could remove some of them and use some type of underground substrate support.

Thanks for bringing that up!


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

IMO you really can't go higher with the rocks, it will take away from the wood. I actually think it looks good and if you use something like HC or other low small plant the rocks will show. If they grow over, that's what trimming is for. Nice job!


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## Supa Mint (Jul 5, 2016)

houseofcards said:


> IMO you really can't go higher with the rocks, it will take away from the wood. I actually think it looks good and if you use something like HC or other low small plant the rocks will show. If they grow over, that's what trimming is for. Nice job!


Ok, that's good to know. I'll make sure to be conscious of obstructing any views of the wood by elevating the rock. I think that I can be selective and conservative with the pieces that I move up. Thanks for pointing that out.

Ok, I've played around with the layout a little bit. I mostly kept the primary wood structure intact, and move the 'branch' into the main wood structure; and then changed the right side to a rock-only area. All for consideration - appreciate any comments or suggestions.

Initial Design vs. Updated Design:


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## Opare (Sep 9, 2015)

I prefer the updated layout because the branch was a bit distracting. However, I feel the rock at the back right is a bit odd. Maybe also have the rocks sit a bit closer to the wood, so it looks like the wood has 'grown' around it so to speak. I actually did a similar scape in my 60P. I'll add it to my signature so you can have a look if you want.



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## Supa Mint (Jul 5, 2016)

Opare said:


> I prefer the updated layout because the branch was a bit distracting. However, I feel the rock at the back right is a bit odd. Maybe also have the rocks sit a bit closer to the wood, so it looks like the wood has 'grown' around it so to speak. I actually did a similar scape in my 60P. I'll add it to my signature so you can have a look if you want.



Yes! You're 60p looks really great - can't wait to see it after the plants grown in a bit. I see the similarities, and I like the rocks closer. I'll play around with it some more to see what happens when the rocks and wood are intertwined a bit more.


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## Opare (Sep 9, 2015)

Supa Mint said:


> Yes! You're 60p looks really great - can't wait to see it after the plants grown in a bit. I see the similarities, and I like the rocks closer. I'll play around with it some more to see what happens when the rocks and wood are intertwined a bit more.



Hah thanks! Hopefully I can let the plants grow in effectively. Your scape is good as well the main piece of wood is really nice, and I like your use of rocks in the negative space. Just keep playing around with it till you get something you're really happy with.



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## sfshrimp (May 24, 2016)

Are you shopping at aqua forest? They price their wood like that (I'm also in SF) :smile2:. I feel like the rocks are too big and all the same sizes. It might be nice to have some smaller rocks and one or two big ones. I also don't like the contrast of the color of the rocks to the substrate. That being said - I'm not an expert and it also won't look anything like this once the plants are in there. Is the top sand the la plata or colorado sand or something else? 

It's cool how you measured out the thirds with the wax pencil or whatever...



Supa Mint said:


> Ok, this is much more difficult than you all make it look!
> 
> My vision for the aquarium is a fully planted nature style aquarium. I will be using CO2 and med/high lighting, to allow for carpeting plants up front - with the plants getting taller as you go deeper into the tank; finishing with taller stem plants in the back. I also want moss growing on the wood.
> 
> ...


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## Supa Mint (Jul 5, 2016)

sfshrimp said:


> Are you shopping at aqua forest? They price their wood like that (I'm also in SF) :smile2:. I feel like the rocks are too big and all the same sizes. It might be nice to have some smaller rocks and one or two big ones. I also don't like the contrast of the color of the rocks to the substrate. That being said - I'm not an expert and it also won't look anything like this once the plants are in there. Is the top sand the la plata or colorado sand or something else?
> 
> It's cool how you measured out the thirds with the wax pencil or whatever...



Thanks for the feedback. No, I'm in the Seattle area. The substrate comes from the Aquarium Co-op in Edmonds, WA. Interesting thoughts about the color contrast. I originally was planning to use a beige/tan colored sand, with the gray rocks. But I thought that it didn't look natural to have rocks that were completely different color than the substrate - my thinking was that a substrate in nature would be comprised of broken down rock from the same area, and therefore would be similar color. Right?

Yeah, I used a dry-erase marker to draw on the outside of the tank, to help me with the "golden ratio".


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## sfshrimp (May 24, 2016)

Supa Mint said:


> Thanks for the feedback. No, I'm in the Seattle area. The substrate comes from the Aquarium Co-op in Edmonds, WA. Interesting thoughts about the color contrast. I originally was planning to use a beige/tan colored sand, with the gray rocks. But I thought that it didn't look natural to have rocks that were completely different color than the substrate - my thinking was that a substrate in nature would be comprised of broken down rock from the same area, and therefore would be similar color. Right?
> 
> Yeah, I used a dry-erase marker to draw on the outside of the tank, to help me with the "golden ratio".


Cool, I like your thoughts. Are you trying to emulate nature or just do your vision of it, as close as you can get it to look like natural? I feel like if you did a true nature aquarium or biotype or whatever, all the materials should be from that area, not collaged together, but that's just a thought. I think collaging stuff is cool, it just kind of threw me visually to have grey on grey.

For my new project I went with orange substrate and orange rocks, I may very well have the same problem, not sure yet... I went with really dark, leathery brown wood also.


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## Supa Mint (Jul 5, 2016)

sfshrimp said:


> Cool, I like your thoughts. Are you trying to emulate nature or just do your vision of it, as close as you can get it to look like natural? I feel like if you did a true nature aquarium or biotype or whatever, all the materials should be from that area, not collaged together, but that's just a thought. I think collaging stuff is cool, it just kind of threw me visually to have grey on grey.
> 
> For my new project I went with orange substrate and orange rocks, I may very well have the same problem, not sure yet... I went with really dark, leathery brown wood also.


Good question - you're right, my combinations probably aren't actually 'natural'. I'd like to end up with something that just looks like it could be found in nature. Kind of like this:


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## sfshrimp (May 24, 2016)

Supa Mint said:


> Good question - you're right, my combinations probably aren't actually 'natural'. I'd like to end up with something that just looks like it could be found in nature. Kind of like this:


I'm a beginner too, just have patience. I doubt you'll even see the substrate once it fills in. You could also just do a bunch of arrangements and take photos and then decide what you like. I'm planning on doing that for the next tank.


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## Supa Mint (Jul 5, 2016)

Thanks everyone, I'm in the process of finding some hardscape materials that better meet my vision. I'll give it another go over the next week or so, and see how things turn out. Making an earnest effort, and getting all of your input has helped me think through my vision. I've learned! 

One thing that I was surprised by was how little depth (front/rear) that I have to work with in a 29 gallon tank. Does anyone have any suggestions for how to work with this 'limitation'?

Thanks!


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## Opare (Sep 9, 2015)

Supa Mint said:


> One thing that I was surprised by was how little depth (front/rear) that I have to work with in a 29 gallon tank. Does anyone have any suggestions for how to work with this 'limitation'?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks!


Yes I noticed this too when working on my 60P. I think the trick is to limit the size of the hardscape somewhat so it doesn't take up too much floor space. Work in pieces that take up spaces from left to right, or up to down. Up to down is especially important for focal points.




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## ichy (Apr 6, 2015)

Opare said:


> I prefer the updated layout because the branch was a bit distracting. However, I feel the rock at the back right is a bit odd. Maybe also have the rocks sit a bit closer to the wood, so it looks like the wood has 'grown' around it so to speak. I actually did a similar scape in my 60P. I'll add it to my signature so you can have a look if you want.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I like the updated one as well! Try tucking the upright rock into the space in the roots and move the flat one onto the slope.


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## Supa Mint (Jul 5, 2016)

Thanks everyone for all of the great advice. I've been doing a lot of thinking, and re-evaluating. Since I last posted, I acquired some new Seiryu rocks, and finally got to playing around with placements. I think that I'm getting closer by bringing the rocks closer to the centerpiece wood feature; and think that it might be better to use a 'less is more' approach with the rocks.

Again, I feel challenged by the lack of front-to-back depth that I have to work with - I didn't realize how little depth a 29 gallon tank really has until I started adding the hardscape.

I'm curious to hear any impressions, or ideas for improvement.


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## Opare (Sep 9, 2015)

Maybe angle the wood a bit further away from the glass so you have more planting space. Using smaller rocks may also give uou more real estate. 


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## scapegoat (Jun 3, 2010)

Supa Mint said:


> Thanks everyone for all of the great advice. I've been doing a lot of thinking, and re-evaluating. Since I last posted, I acquired some new Seiryu rocks, and finally got to playing around with placements. I think that I'm getting closer by bringing the rocks closer to the centerpiece wood feature; and think that it might be better to use a 'less is more' approach with the rocks.
> 
> Again, I feel challenged by the lack of front-to-back depth that I have to work with - I didn't realize how little depth a 29 gallon tank really has until I started adding the hardscape.
> 
> I'm curious to hear any impressions, or ideas for improvement.


https://youtu.be/w_ZIXbnSXYM?t=1275

this portion of this talk is about rock placement, and it really enlightened me as to how to select and place rocks. 

I wish this guy had more videos... or more people to make videos where they describe just these sort of things.


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## Supa Mint (Jul 5, 2016)

Opare said:


> Maybe angle the wood a bit further away from the glass so you have more planting space. Using smaller rocks may also give uou more real estate.





scapegoat said:


> https://youtu.be/w_ZIXbnSXYM?t=1275
> 
> this portion of this talk is about rock placement, and it really enlightened me as to how to select and place rocks.


I now can see that the Seiryu rocks that I have are much too large for a 29 gallon tank, which is only 12 inches deep (front-to-back).

I watched the aquascaping lecture video - it was FANTASTIC!! Highly recommended and helpful. After watching the video, I was full of inspiration, and certain that I could create a fantastic hardscape with my existing wood and Seiryu rocks.

As I mentioned before, I realized that my rocks were too big, so I took my largest Seiryu rock to the back yard, and spanked it with a sledge hammer. It wasn't too difficult to break, but I'm disappointed with the shapes that it broke into. Typically, the breaks created 90 degree angles; and square pieces are bad. Also, they would break along fault lines that exposed sides that were entirely quartz or some white colored stone. It didn't look good, and was very frustrating.

Also, my wood centerpiece is composed of individual pieces of wood - not a single, natural wood piece. Therefore, they only fit together certain ways without looking completely unnatural. More frustration!

So, I feel like I have limited options based on:
1. Lack of available (front-to-back) depth with a 29 gallon tank: 12"
2. Individual wood pieces available to create a single natural looking structure
3. Seiryu stone pieces that are probably too large for the tank size and the 'style' that I'm trying to incorporate them into, which also includes wood. Keeping in mind that I want this to be a heavily planted tank, the wood and stone take up a lot of real estate.

Here is the latest variation that I've created. I'm not overly happy with it, especially since it's been 'minimized' (to create more planting space); and 'centered', which makes it feel somewhat organized and less natural. But maybe the plantings can be used to get back to a natural appearance?

Please continue to provide comments, suggestions, and critique. They've all been very helpful to me. Despite some frustration, I'm having fun and learning a lot.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

I think you did a nice job! If you can prop up the wood a little more and bury the rock a little more I think it will be in better proportion.


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