# Your biggest do's and don't when first doing a dirt tank!



## Woody0229 (May 19, 2011)

As the title states what are your biggest mistakes when it comes to dirt tanks and also what's your best "pro tip" for a dirt tank.

My plan: I have had a 40 breeder laying around for some time and took the time to make my own top soil. I do plant to have co2 and higher light on this tank. 

Couple questions.

On initial start up what kind of water changes should I be doing? How do I avoid this looking like a muddy mess? Is sand really that bad to use as a cap?

Sent from my SM-G930R4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Beefyfish (Mar 5, 2015)

Lay a clean paper down in bottom of tank on first filling. Keeps from making a big mess. If not the sand move all over.

Dont go yanking out plants. Shut off the filter and slowly wiggle the plant back and forth while pulling to remove it. Then vacuum tiny bit of debris up and turn filter back on.


----------



## Bananableps (Nov 6, 2013)

1) Put a layer of dried leaves in between the dirt and sand/gravel cap. Helps reduce mess from cap breach.

2) Your tank will cloud up like crazy in the first few weeks. Do a water change on the first and second day to get silica and other stuff out of the water, but in my experience water changes after that point really don't help your dirt tank acclimate. Just let your tank stabilize on its own. After that, you can change your water according to the practices of your particular aquarium gods. 

3) Fill up SLOWLY. Like so so so slowly. A cap breach when you first start out is a real bummer. Later on, it's not so bad. I like to pour water over several layers of plastic wrap.

4) Make your sand/gravel cap deep. 1.5" is not too much. Worried about anoxic substrate? Poke it with some chopsticks. 

5) Don't plant DHG unless it's the only plant you want. It will take over. I used to be a big advocate of this plant in dirted tanks, but I'm so fed up with it now. It's just too invasive.

6) Mineralizing soil makes your house smell. In my opinion, not worth it. 

7) Pool filter sand is substantially better than play sand. Very worth it.

8) Incorporate old tank substrate into your soil. I believe this reduces the cloudy-period, but I can't say with confidence. My newly dirted tank was set up with a large quantity of dirt from my old tank, and I'm a month in with no cloudiness or algae.


re: sand
Nah, sand is great. Gravel can potentially allow your dirt to renew itself, composting fish mulm into new dirt, but I can't stand looking at the same scape for more than a year so I don't have personal experience with this. Sand offers the best protection against cap breach and is the easiest to plant in.


----------



## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

-Expect lots of tannins, though they dissipate much faster than when soaking driftwood (usually a month or so of water changes)
-expect some ammonia as it first starts to break in. I usually toss a bunch of frogbit in as a nutrient sponge for the first couple of weeks (it also keeps light down so less algae when breaking in)
-disturb it as little as possible this will keep you from having little bits of debris everywhere
-when removing plants try and cut the roots around the plant first then a gentle wiggle to get the remaining roots to come out. Leave the cut roots in the dirt, no harm from that


----------



## tatersalad (Dec 7, 2011)

You're going to get alot of different opinions on this subject so I'll throw my 2 cents in...
1. Don't be scared to go deep with whatever cap you decide to use. I've tried pool filter sand, playground sand and black diamond. Whatever I'm in the mood for is what I'm going to use. 
2. Just like everyone else has said: fill the tank slowly with alot of walmart sacks layered on the bottom. This will greatly reduce the period of time that your water is cloudy.
3. Don't freak out if your water is cloudy. Give it some time, like a week.
4. A little bit of Osmocote+ goes a long way with dirt tanks. I have seen a considerable jump in plant growth since using it on top of my dirt before adding the cap.
5. When you go to move plants that have been in one spot for a long time, try using a sharp, thin knife to cut the roots away from the plant under the cap. I have tried this the last few times as I got rid of sword plants and it worked well. I had very little dirt come out of the cap with this method.
6. If you are not sure if you will like a sword plant then don't get it. They grow like crazy in dirt tanks!
7. Like Banableps said: DHG and dwarf sag and jungle vals will all take over your tank in no time at all. I still have not really figured out a method to controlling where they grow and don't grow.


----------



## Woody0229 (May 19, 2011)

You guys are all wonderful! Can't wait to get this thing underway 

Sent from my SM-G930R4 using Tapatalk


----------



## klibs (May 1, 2014)

+1 for deeper cap. heavy root feeders you are better off cutting the roots vs trying to uproot. it will be a disaster (especially with crypts, swords, etc...). i would also put s repens in this category because omg do they grow roots

just be careful, you can't be disturbing your substrate vs what you could in non-dirt setups. really bad cap breaches can cause big problems. i have screwed up dirt in the past... if you do it right then it will give great results. something i would try again for sure


----------



## nel (Jan 23, 2016)

About sand - I love sand, I won't ever change it for anything else! I have small tank with soil, had many with gravel... Not worth it, sand, dirt under sand, sand with root tabs, sand however you want it!

Do's and don't:

1. *Be patient.* Always. Something goes wrong? Change one thing at a time and wait. It's hard to stop ourselves from doing everything at once, but you want know what helped, what made things worse if you change many things at once.

2. *Don't worry* about anaerobic spaces in your substrate, I've got deep sand (sand with root tabs), like 10 cm deep in the back. Never moved it, never poked it for ~9 years, only few MTS working for me. It's the best biological filtration you can get! 

3. *Don't change water* as it gets cloudy, it will, but give it time, when everything gets caught in a filter or on the substrate and it stops being cloudy - time for a water change. Actually water changes with dirt are mostly the same as without it.


----------



## Bananableps (Nov 6, 2013)

Curious about suggestions to cut the roots off and leave them in the dirt. I have always wanted to do this but have avoided it because of lessons in terrestrial gardening taught to me by my mother when I was little. I guess I never thought to question those lessons. Are there really no problems doing this at all?




tatersalad said:


> 7. Like Banableps said: DHG and dwarf sag and jungle vals will all take over your tank in no time at all. I still have not really figured out a method to controlling where they grow and don't grow.


I've thought about putting a barrier under the substrate to prevent runners from creeping through. Pointless?




*Note*
Maybe we can compile a bunch of these ideas together into a google doc and request a sticky post in the Low-Tech subforum?


----------



## Woody0229 (May 19, 2011)

Bananableps said:


> Curious about suggestions to cut the roots off and leave them in the dirt. I have always wanted to do this but have avoided it because of lessons in terrestrial gardening taught to me by my mother when I was little. I guess I never thought to question those lessons. Are there really no problems doing this at all?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have seen in a few scapes on YouTube I think that "green machine" in the u.k uses something similar to what you would use to line a garden some black plastic stuff. If I was not on mobile I would try and find a link. Either way the green machine videos are amazing. You could probably use concrete to build a barrier and the plants would still find a way to get around it. Plants will be plants 

Sent from my SM-G930R4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Bananableps (Nov 6, 2013)

Woody0229 said:


> I have seen in a few scapes on YouTube I think that "green machine" in the u.k uses something similar to what you would use to line a garden some black plastic stuff. If I was not on mobile I would try and find a link. Either way the green machine videos are amazing. You could probably use concrete to build a barrier and the plants would still find a way to get around it. Plants will be plants
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930R4 using Tapatalk


That was actually exactly what I was thinking of.

There's control and then there's control. Might not stop them completely, but it might reduce the number of plants you have to pull, reducing the number of cap breaches you have to make. Depending on how many gallons you have to work with, a dirted tank can sustain a certain number of cap breaches a week without much problem. If you go past that, a high tech person will come to your house and scold you for not spending hundreds of dollars on metal tubes.


----------



## tatersalad (Dec 7, 2011)

I forgot about one of the biggest arguments in the dirt community: Should I use Organic Miracle Grow or can I just use the regular stuff?
When I first got into dirt several years ago, some folks were all hyped up about only using organic potting soil and you needed to sift all of the wood chips out of it. I saw that and I thought, well I'm gonna give it a shot with the organic but I'm not sifting all the darn wood out. So that's what I did. The first couple of times I dirted I used the MGOPM and I had great results. Then one day I was at the store getting things and I needed some soil to setup one of my tanks with and they were out of the organic so I just bought the regular. Put that stuff in my tank and never had any problems, it will not kill all your fish and your plants will love it. I did not sift anything out, just dumped it in and covered it with some playground sand about 2 inches deep. There was even a tank journal on this forum back in the day where a guy used mineralized top soil that he made with the dog poop he picked up in his yard from his rottweilers. It was called "The Toxic Ten". He took all the pics down but you can still read the comments. It's all a big science experiment man, part of the fun is trying different things and finding what works for your situation. Situation being your tap water conditions and the amount of time and money you are willing to spend to have a certain setup. If your water at home is less than desirable, look at getting some from a neighbor or family member that may have better water. It is much easier to keep fish and plants in water that is already pretty good than it is to try to change bad water.
I hope you have good luck in your venture and tonight when I get home I'm going to get a pic of some plants that came up out of some roots that I left in the sand when I cut a plant out.


----------



## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

tatersalad said:


> I forgot about one of the biggest arguments in the dirt community: Should I use Organic Miracle Grow or can I just use the regular stuff?
> When I first got into dirt several years ago, some folks were all hyped up about only using organic potting soil and you needed to sift all of the wood chips out of it. I saw that and I thought, well I'm gonna give it a shot with the organic but I'm not sifting all the darn wood out. So that's what I did. The first couple of times I dirted I used the MGOPM and I had great results. Then one day I was at the store getting things and I needed some soil to setup one of my tanks with and they were out of the organic so I just bought the regular. Put that stuff in my tank and never had any problems, it will not kill all your fish and your plants will love it. I did not sift anything out, just dumped it in and covered it with some playground sand about 2 inches deep. There was even a tank journal on this forum back in the day where a guy used mineralized top soil that he made with the dog poop he picked up in his yard from his rottweilers. It was called "The Toxic Ten". He took all the pics down but you can still read the comments. It's all a big science experiment man, part of the fun is trying different things and finding what works for your situation. Situation being your tap water conditions and the amount of time and money you are willing to spend to have a certain setup. If your water at home is less than desirable, look at getting some from a neighbor or family member that may have better water. It is much easier to keep fish and plants in water that is already pretty good than it is to try to change bad water.
> I hope you have good luck in your venture and tonight when I get home I'm going to get a pic of some plants that came up out of some roots that I left in the sand when I cut a plant out.


I will second this. And add that I will normally soak whatever dirt I use (potting soil, soil of of plants I bought for the riparium, dirt from the yard) for a couple of days in a tub/bucket and stir it daily. This normally gets most of your bigger wood chips and other things that float out. Makes for less mess down the line, though a thick cap if left undisturbed will eventually waterlog all of that stuff anyways if you don't have time to wait


----------



## d33pVI (Oct 28, 2015)

Biggest lesson learned from my first attempt: cap the dirt BEFORE you add the water!! Seems obvious, and becomes even more obvious after you do it wrong 

Also agree with the folks who mentioned not to stress over which type of soil you use. Just avoid anything with vermiculite, and don't use anything with fertilizer if you want to add fish any time soon.


----------



## toadpher (May 25, 2015)

I just finished my first dirted tank about two weeks ago. A few things I learned were have a thick cap (this has been stated many times before), plant as much as you can before you fill to avoid disturbing the substrate, have a good water change routine; I've been changing several gallons of water periodically every day and it's still brown and be patient. The water will clear up eventually, but this is a commitment, don't expect clear water right away. In the long run your plants should be much happier with a dirt substrate, but it does take time for everything to establish.


----------



## H2O Life (Dec 31, 2016)

For those who have a Magnum 350 canister filter, it works great in polishing the water clarity in any aquarium. I used it to clear up my 150 gal dirted tank within 3 days. The key was using cotton in the screen container that came with the unit...really pack it in there. Nylon cotton is inexpensive so frequently changing it out sped up the process. Once the water cleared up, I switched over to my eheim canister.

This may work with other filters. The cotton worked very much like a filter sock and cheaply disposable.


----------



## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Biggest do's and dont's when doing a dirt tank??

#1: Dont do a dirt a tank


----------



## Woody0229 (May 19, 2011)

burr740 said:


> Biggest do's and dont's when doing a dirt tank??
> 
> #1: Dont do a dirt a tank


A little explanation why?

Sent from my SM-G930R4 using Tapatalk


----------



## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Woody0229 said:


> A little explanation why?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930R4 using Tapatalk


Post was half in jest, Ive seen some really nice dirted tanks.

But for me personally, I like to move things around too much, and dirt just makes a mess in that scenario


----------



## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

Biggest don't... Don't load soils that are by definition comprised of organic matter(is what soil is), with root tab's and or product's like Osmocote.
Only after some month's with heavy plant load,would I begin to consider adding to the soil based tank. 
Easy to over do it with root tab's and such in any type substrate.
Ditto for patience,and some forethought as to plant placement(growth habit's) so moving the plant's about is kept to minimum.


----------



## aclaar877 (Feb 19, 2014)

In October I set up my 155 with MTS under fluorite. I'm about to scrap the substrate and do it over with only black diamond blasting sand. I've made two mistakes - one, I was too reckless in dumping fluorite on top of the MTS. The MTS was runny, like brownie batter. As I dumped in the buckets of flourite, it displaced some MTS, forcing it to other parts of the tank. It would have been better to place the fluorite much more carefully, or maybe have the MTS dry out more. Second, I have removed some crypts and broadleaf sag and other stem plants, had lots of soil breach the cap. I had filters running while I did that, and now I have problems with dust settling on plants and wood, cloudier water (I even have fine floss in the filters), and I just can't keep the tank looking crisp and clean anymore. Any little bit of GDA on leaves just seems to grab the dusty soil particles and hold them there. I have tried turning off all filters and powerheads, carefully vaccuming and such, but it's not helping that much. Perhaps sand is a much better cap than fluorite. And I really should have clipped the roots of the plants I pulled and left them in the substrate. 

Overall plants have grown very well in this setup, but I just can't keep it as clean as I want, and overall the tank just doesn't look that good. Be very careful as you initially set it up, and when you remove plants!


----------



## tatersalad (Dec 7, 2011)

Here's a pic of all the melon swords that came up after I cut the roots off my sword and pulled the plant out. This is the only time this has ever happened to me and I thought it was cool.


----------



## smj (Jan 10, 2016)

I'm still new to this, but on my second dirted tank I used a deeper gravel cap (1-1.5" vs. 0.25-0.5" the first time) over less Miracle Grow: O.C. (1.5-2" vs. 4"). Soaked the soil for a couple days in de-chloramined water after putting it in the tank. Planted as much as I could before filling with water. And I used a hose and gravity to siphon the water in slowly, with no disruption, until the tank was at least half full.

The soaking and deeper cap have made a big difference. I had to move a couple plants in both cases, and with the first tank I had massive soil eruptions. This time there was very little material escaping the cap, and there's only a little cloudiness to the water.


----------



## Bananableps (Nov 6, 2013)

aclaar877 said:


> the plants I pulled and left them in the substrate.
> /QUOTE]
> 
> As someone who started out in dirt with gravel, and then moved to sand, I can confirm that this kind of thing is not an issue with sand. Yes, removing plants will still cause cap breach, but it always clear up within a day, maybe two if it's a smaller tank. There is a lot more segregation between the dirt and the cap with sand.


----------



## The Big Buddha (Jul 30, 2012)

Biggest don't for me was miracle grow. 
First dirt tank was miracle grow, last 4 were with the mineralized top soil. Difference is night and day between the two. Insane algae problems at startup with the miracle grow.

.


----------



## GrampsGrunge (Jun 18, 2012)

Another biggy: If you don't have access to either washed river gravel/sand, or pool filter sand, don't ever buy paver stone setting sand with polymer. Even the stuff with excess silicates is a problem. In either case you'll need to rinse the holy crap out of that stuff to rid it of it's setting agent.

If you have a local gravel quarry, see if they sell the gravel they use or sell to cities that's spread on icy/snowy roads, make sure it's not mixed with rock salt. Another good gravel is what's called Turkey Grit, that's sold to poultry farmers as gizzard stones for chickens and turkeys.


----------



## BrynnaCC (Jan 5, 2014)

Oh, here's one that's saved me a lot of trouble when filling: If you have a large piece of glass that fits in your tank (I use an aquarium lid), set it right on top of the soil as flat as possible, and then aim your pour at the glass. The impact of the water will hit the glass and then run off the edges in a nice, even way. This trick allowed me to fill my 40 gal relatively quickly without kicking anything up.


----------



## jonnyboy (Mar 13, 2013)

The Big Buddha said:


> Biggest don't for me was miracle grow.
> First dirt tank was miracle grow, last 4 were with the mineralized top soil. Difference is night and day between the two. Insane algae problems at startup with the miracle grow.
> 
> .


can you buy mineralized topsoil? i went through the whole process from the thread on here with organic miracle grow and it was alot of work. had great results, but i would rather pay someone else to do it lol! 

Also, I tore my dirted tank down because i was worried about anaerobic bacteria. i had about .5 inches of MG. and 2 inched of sand. i saw bubbles come up a couple times when resetting hardscape and didnt want to kill my fish. everything i read pointed towards my fears so i did it without question. thoughts?


----------



## BigMek (Dec 6, 2016)

From what I've read you actually want an anaerobic zone in your soil layer. It hosts de-nitrifying bacteria which can turn nitrates into free nitrogen gas, thus preventing said nitrates from building up in your tank. It's how us Walstad folks can get away with changing the water every few months rather than every few days. Anaerobic bacteria are also instrumental in making the iron and manganese in soil useful to your plants. If the bubbles reeked of rotten eggs then you were probably building up hydrogen sulfide, but that seems to be one of those things that "isn't a problem until it is", ie, your fish start suffering. Thankfully the bacteria in your aerobic layer will break the hydrogen sulfide back down into sulfates, which are harmless. Ah, the great circle of redox chemistry. Delicious electron exchange. Yum. By the way this comes primarily from Diana Walstad's Ecology of the Planted Aquarium, pages 65-67.

Personally, I think you had too little soil and too much sand - when I set my latest tank up i did about 1.25" soil and 0.5" sand. 

Edit: I also had a 5 gallon bucket that I was trying to turn into a daphnia colony (limited success, that's another story) that I put way too much soil and gravel into, probably 2" on the soil and 1.5+" on the gravel. I would get hydrogen sulfide bubbles out of the substrate, and quite a lot of it at at that, but only if I jostled the bucket. Smelled awful but never gassed anything to death.


----------



## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

I've done a few dirt tanks. Still have my original 55 running after 5 years or so and it is doing well. 
I'll never do another dirt tank again though. Don't get me wrong. I still use dirt. I just don't cover the entire tank bottom with it. I put dirt into net pots used for hydroponics and put that into the gravel layer. (My gravel is the river pebbles found in every BBS) I've found the plants still grow great and I get little of the problems of a full dirt tank.
I also don't do anything to the dirt. The full tanks I've done I've gotten bags of top soil from the BBS and dumped it into the tank, planted it and then filled it.


----------



## jonnyboy (Mar 13, 2013)

thanks for the info BigMek! I'm going to try it again in my 20high that I've been struggling with. This is going to be an experiment with pressurized Co2. I have a 75gal waiting to be set up, but I don't want to set it up until i know i can keep my plants healthy....before i dump a buttload of cash on plants lol!


----------



## TankPlanter (May 31, 2015)

I think the biggest tip is: Your results may differ.

I have only one dirted tank, so I'm still a newbie- and it's just a 20g. I didn't mineralize, used Miracle Gro Organic out of the box, used a Black Diamond sand cap with MTS, planted (plant heavily), then filled by pouring into a plastic plate stuck on top of the driftwood. Never had any cloudy water, never had ammonia leach (I tested daily- wound up having to do fishless cycling). I just use aquascaping scissors to cut the roots of bunch plants if I want to move them. Hasn't been a problem.

So I didn't have the usual problems... but I've had plenty of other problems (water still yellows quickly after a water change almost two years later, soil no longer supported swords after about 1.5 years, sponge filter clogs constantly...)

Oh! Also!! Put your hardscape--especially driftwood--in before substrate or anything else. Weigh it down somehow- attached to heavy rocks or slate, or my favorite- tie off a pantyhose sock and after filling both ends with sand/dirt and drape it over your hardscape to keep it weighted down. Wish I'd done that.


----------



## jonnyboy (Mar 13, 2013)

TankPlanter said:


> I think the biggest tip is: Your results may differ.
> 
> I have only one dirted tank, so I'm still a newbie- and it's just a 20g. I didn't mineralize, used Miracle Gro Organic out of the box, used a Black Diamond sand cap with MTS, planted (plant heavily), then filled by pouring into a plastic plate stuck on top of the driftwood. Never had any cloudy water, never had ammonia leach (I tested daily- wound up having to do fishless cycling). I just use aquascaping scissors to cut the roots of bunch plants if I want to move them. Hasn't been a problem.
> 
> ...


i never had problems with discolored water ever. used black sand for a cap. cloudiness would occur if i uprooted plants but that was it. no algae bloom when i first set it up. i had floaters to help absorb extra leeched nutrients. had two fully cycled filters so that was helpful. kinda wish i had just stuck with that setup lol!


----------



## C10H12N2O (Nov 13, 2014)

I remember being really reluctant to try dirt tanks for the longest time - I like moving things around and was positive it would be too messy. The fraternity of dirt and the lovely pictures of their dirt tanks tempted me though and I had found someone selling mineralized topsoil aaaand I was getting ready to redo my five gallon... so I figured it was worth a shot. SO worth it and not nearly as much mess as I thought. 
I have joined the dirt side and it is oh-so sweet.

I think the golden rules for dirt tanks are these (keeping in mind results will always vary somewhat)
-Sand is best to prevent cap breaches
-DO NOT skimp on the cap
-Don't worry too much about anaerobic pockets
-Plant as much as you can before you fill
-Fill it SLOWLY
-Vacuum carefully (meaning just the surface)
-Lots of water changes at the beginning 
and most importantly...
-Sit back and enjoy your lush, low-maintenance plant growth!


----------



## PEdwards (Oct 31, 2016)

Biggest dos

1. Sift out the large debris and mix the fines 50/50 with Turface/Shultz Aquatic Plant Soil.

2. Use a 2mm (coarse) sand, nothing finer, and go at least an inch for the cap.

3. CO2!!!

4. Clean the filter and do big WC after any plant uprooting

5. Overfilter


Biggest dont's

1. Use Val, Saggitaria, or E. tenellus. 

2. Never pull up an Echinodorus or Crypt bunch, always cut the roots

3. Cap the soil right after it's been put in the tank. Let it dry out a bit and form a crust/skin first.

4. Fill and plant right after getting the substrate and hardscape set up. Let it sit for a week or two with only enough water to come up to the halfway mark on the sand cap before filling all the way.


----------



## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

do dirted high tech tanks exist? im either going to dirt my high tech 65 gallon or im going to ADA aquasoil it possibly


----------



## BigMek (Dec 6, 2016)

Diana Walstad mentiones high-tech dirted tanks in her book. IIRC the only downside is more plant growth means the soil wears out faster. Getting your fert dosing dialed in might also be tricky, but I don't do high tech so I can't be sure.


----------



## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

theatermusic87 said:


> I will second this. And add that I will normally soak whatever dirt I use for a couple of days in a tub/bucket and stir it daily. This normally gets most of your bigger wood chips and other things that float out.


I am using Worm castings. It has no chips. It is pure black dirt.

Bump:


burr740 said:


> Biggest do's and dont's when doing a dirt tank??
> 
> #1: Dont do a dirt a tank


Totally disagree. That is all I do.

Bump:


BrynnaCC said:


> piece of glass that fits in your tank (I use an aquarium lid), set it right on top of the soil as flat as possible, and then aim your pour at the glass.


I prefer to use plastic sheeting.

Bump:


jonnyboy said:


> i saw bubbles come up a couple times when resetting hardscape and didnt want to kill my fish. everything i read pointed towards my fears so i did it without question. thoughts?


Bubbles are quite normal. It is when it smell like rotten egg you have a problem. You poke the substrate occasionally to release the gas. I put Red Bag kitty under my dirt and have very little air pockets.

Bump:


GraphicGr8s said:


> My gravel is the river pebbles found in every BBS


What does BBS stand for?


----------



## Gaoweihd (Nov 4, 2018)

adding a post count

Bump: adding a post count

Bump: adding a post count2


----------

