# Flourite verses AS



## cbennett (Oct 20, 2005)

had flourite, switched to AS - will never go back. 

AS has the nutrients, nice color, won't scratch the tank, and softens the water. PLUS, you don't have to wash AS! My plants are showing tremendous root growth and my fish are spawing. I got my AS for cheaper than I could have gotten the flourite (sale) but normally it's about the same cost.

I wouldn't recommend AS if you have hard water fish.


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## ianiwane (Sep 7, 2004)

ditto, AS is way better than flourite.


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## Roy Deki (Jan 13, 2004)

I agree with cbennett...Aquasoil is the best, hands down. I like the way it looks and the growth of my stem plants is phenomenal


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## aquanut415 (Jan 21, 2006)

fluorite is like hardbaked aquasoil. Doesn't allow the roots to penetrate into it like AS does.

Ever been to a lake or river? Do you recall wether the dirt/substrate was hard like fluorite, or was it soft and spongy like aquasoil?

to me aquasoil just seems more like what I see in nature than using fluorite.


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## random_alias (Jun 28, 2005)

Had Flourite.

Now, all my tanks are Aquasoil and I have about 50lbs of Flourite sitting outside in a bucket.


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## co2 (Sep 13, 2004)

I could never stand the look of Flourite, so I started with Eco Complete. Since using Aqua Soil, I will never go back.


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## inthedeep2 (Apr 6, 2005)

where is aquasoil found?? i am in san diego


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## yoink (Apr 21, 2005)

You can get it online at http://www.adgshop.com/Aqua_Soil_s/21.htm


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## Ds11375 (Jan 28, 2006)

I currently have Flourite in my tank. I've always noticed large root systems on my stemmed plants. I like the look of the tanks on the site that have used AS Amazonia normal. I'm thinking about using the AS when I switch out my 15 gallon for a 20 gal. I just need to read more up on the effect it will have on the water chemistry and if any other additives have to be use with AS.

Dan


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## cbennett (Oct 20, 2005)

you can also get AS from AquaForest in San Francisco. They will ship.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Unless you have Rift cichlids etc, I'd not worry about the water changes done via ADA AS.

I've spend a long time using a number of products over the years.
I even warned Jeff from ADG that the test I did on ADA As might not be what he thought, but I proved myself wrong.

And that is a good thing because the end result is that is satitified my critiques and did and super job, looks very nice also, something I've bugged over with the SeaChem Flouirite and Onyx sand. EC is junk with all those different grain sizes but it has a better color at least than flourite. But ADA is cheaper than EC.........

Most folks that have tried ADA AS will not go back as you can see, there's a reason why I, Jeff, Luis, David, Amano etc use it.........

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Ds11375 (Jan 28, 2006)

How much AS would you need for a 20 gallon tall?

Dan


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## fshfanatic (Apr 20, 2006)

I am really wantiing to switch from the substrate I am using (gravel) to AS. My tank is 36L X 24H X 12W how much would I need to get a 2-3" Depth?


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## Ds11375 (Jan 28, 2006)

Look at this chart. I could've saved posting myself if I had looked at ADA web site more carefully.


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## Ds11375 (Jan 28, 2006)

*AS Chart*

http://www.adgshop.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=104%2D031&Show=ExtInfo


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## fshfanatic (Apr 20, 2006)

Thank you. Seems I will need 4- 9 liter bags..


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## trustbran (Jun 27, 2006)

no comparison dude, AS hands down!!!!


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## mrbelvedere (Nov 15, 2005)

I use Onyx only for the color, ease of planting, and the fact that hard water doesn't bother me in the least bit. If you are on the fence, go Aquasoil. The only advantage is that AS will break down over the years. Fluorite will last forever, but I think it is ugly as sin.


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## hughitt1 (Jun 19, 2006)

Anyone use the power sand? or powder grain substrates?


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## mrbelvedere (Nov 15, 2005)

Powder decomposes even faster. Power sand is mainly for show tanks, ones that don't get much rescaping. Power sand is a lot higher in nutrients.


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## ianiwane (Sep 7, 2004)

yup, mrbelvedere is right. I have the powder version and I would not get it again. I have like aquasoil so much that I have 5 bags in my tanks and another 12 sitting in my storage. Haha


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## cbennett (Oct 20, 2005)

DO NOT USE the power sand crap. I'm not saying it doesn't have the nutrients or whatever, but it is a different color and is a big size compared to AS. Basically, everytime you replant something you will have little light-colored lava rock looking things littering your substrate. It's a real eyesore. You can get the same benefit just sprinkling a little dried spagnum on the bottom or a bit of mulm from an old tank.

P.S. my 60 gallon is 36" x 19 x 20 (90 x 48 x 52cm) and I used 3.5 bags for a 3" depth.


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## aquanut415 (Jan 21, 2006)

I had the same problem as cbennet initially, but no longer. Never do I pull up ps anymore while planting, or moving things around. I think it is cause the powersand initially has lots of air in it, due to the porous nature of the substrate, but as time goes on, the bubbles escape, and it sinks even better than it does initally. Probably could avoid this problem by agitating the powersand in the water in the tank prior to the addition on the aquasoil on top. ALso, as time goes on the powersand changes color to a much darker tone, probably colored by the tiny aquasoil dust particles that get stuck to it.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Mine has not.

It's not changed color, nor sank.
It's a nice layer on top of the AS.

I cannot post pics here, but I'll tell you it looks bad.

I've pushed them back down etc, but now it's just a fight to remove the remaining PS.

The PS is over 6 months old and it's neither changed color nor sinks better or worse.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## hughitt1 (Jun 19, 2006)

hmm. you guys mix it up with your AS? or layer it?


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## aquanut415 (Jan 21, 2006)

definitely layered.

mine now sinks, and is dark, not a problem anymore.

Why not allow people to try it out for themselves and let them come to thier own conclusions?

I say try it, its like $25 more, if you don't like it don't use it next time.


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## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

> DO NOT USE the power sand crap.


No way is Power Sand crap. It is a great product, if used in the proper application.

From another thread: 


Momotaro said:


> I think Power Sand is great as well. It is like a big, biological media mass for your substrate. Kind of like the ceramic noodles or bio-balls in a canister filter.
> 
> Now, that endorsement being said, there is an instance where I would not use Power Sand. I would not use Power Sand if I did not have a distinct aquascape in mind. Why? Well, the ADA substrate system is a layered substrate. Bigger grained Power Sand on the bottom and finer grained Aqua Soil on the top. Some folks will even use the super fine Aqua Soil Powder on top of that. Now, the natural occurance would be for the finer particals of substrate to work their way to the bottom of the aquarium, and the larger particles of the substrate to work their way to the top. If you have a planned aquascape in mind, and don't imagine yourself pulling up and moving plants very often, if at all, you won't be shifting the substrate around and mixing up the layers. You would be utilizing the ADA substrate system as it was designed. You would also be maintaining the asthetic of the substrate. The larger grains of Power Sand remain on the bottom of the aquarium where they belong. That is important as Power Sand is large grained pieces of vermiculite, coated with peat, Bacter 100 and some other nutrients and minerals. Vermiculite is white, the dark color on the Power sand is a result of the coating. So, if you pull up the Power Sand and the coating wears off, you'll have.........bits of white substrate all about...................................If you haven't really decided on an aquascape design and have heard all about ADA substrates and want to give them a try, by all means go for it! ADA is the best substrate I have ever used! Just skip the Power Sand. You will still have a magnificently nutrient rich, biologically active substrate. You will still experience great plant growth.


Mike


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## aquanut415 (Jan 21, 2006)

momotaro... I love to know that there are other members here with thier own ideas, and are willing to stand up for them...


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

So you have tried it without the PS over time?
Such ideas are no less worthy .............

I supported my own comments about the Powersand, several folks beside myself have had similar complaints.

I am far from being the only one.
I do not expect folks to get caught in the (and really hope they steer clear of) bandwagon effect. 

My question, and it's a very valid one, 25$ extra is a significant amount also, perhaps much more depending on the tank sizes, is what use is the PS +AS? What specifically does PS contain?

I have KNO3, I have KH2PO4, why do I need this product if I already dose these?

It does not improve growth (unless you compare it to adding no macro ferts at all to both the substrate and the water column), nor does it increase circulation (recall, it's capped by the AS, thus preventing nutrients from leeching out of the substrate), nor bacteria(roots do far more as does the much finer clay in AS). Detritus fills the gaps above the PS and that clogs the substrate, this is true for any substrate. Having a finer grain on top only caps things so long. Any uprooting, forget it.
If circulation etc was really the goal for a substrate, you'd have the larger grains on top. A substrate with fine sand/fine particles on top is still just cap that is layered. You sure do not find this in natural system either.
Nor do you find heating cables in nature either.

If you do not add any fertilizer to the water, well, then yes, it'll increase growth vs plain AS.

For folks like LFS's that tend to do very little to their tanks and may neglect dosing, the AS and Ps combo is good.

Many newbies fall into this group also.

So PS does have a very valid and important use for some folks. 

But none of you here are newbies hardly.........and know what KNO3 is.
The analysis of PS showed what it mainly added, high NO3.

After that and the peat, not much.
Pumice is all it is after you wash it off.

AS has about say 5 ppm of NO3 and PS has about 100ppm per unit grame of product. They are about equal on the NH4+ levels per unit weight.

Oh wait, that's real data, not opinion.........:icon_roll 

BTW, PS is NOT vermiculite.
Have you ever used vermiculite?
Try to get that to sink sometime.

Otherwise what Mike said is pretty much right on.

I do not agree with ADA substrate system as it was designed as being better.

I try things out and test to see with/without works and what parts are significant and under what conditions.

If all you try is the entire system, then how do you know what is doing what?
I have better results without the PS +EI, With EI and PS, same results.
I predicted this outcome prior and it turned out to be true.

How might I be able to do that?

Opinion?
Nope.

Answer me this:

How is it that the AS on top that locks in the nutrients down in the substrate, but the PS on the bottom helps increase circulation to the substrate?

You do not get both with that one there.
Such logic/methods are antagonistic.

Higher circulation = leaching out of the nutrients.
Low circulation = less leaching but little flow/O2.
Add bacteria = even less O2 and flow.

The whole business of better flow is something going back to heating cable days.

I have done enough with substrates and the water column, in isolated tanks without fish/critter influences to know what to look for that is relevant or not.

It's not complex to do such things either.

You need one tank with the PA and AS and one without.
You need to make sure the water column is non limiting (why might that be important?).

You can do the same thing and next time not add anything to the water column. You would also predict that you should see a dramatic difference in the tank with PS vs none if you add nothing to the water column. You try it and see.

I have done this, and have done it a few times now, question is, have you?
How in the bejesus would know if you had not done so?



> Why not allow people to try it out for themselves and let them come to thier own conclusions?


Oh I do.

When are you going to do a few runs of the above experiement to see?
Or perhaps you are all talk?

I have 9 tanks at home with(3) and without PS (all have AS).
Been that way for about a 8 months now.

You?

I do suggest that all LFS's get and carry the PS though(see part of Mike's comments). You cannot get them nor some newbies to dose KNO3 etc routinely.


Regards,
Tom Barr


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## aquanut415 (Jan 21, 2006)

I have never promoted the use of powersand, merely suggested others try it for themselves and come to thier own conclusions.

ps... I currently have 6 tanks with aquasoil, one with aquasoil and powersand.
I feel as if the powersand certainly hasn't hurt anything, can't say for SURE if it has helped.


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