# My 75 gallon derimming project.



## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

Wow. Did you do some homework on this before you did it? Never heard of anyone derimming a tank this size before. 

Good luck, I hope its a successful project.

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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

I've never seen a tank over 40 gallons derimed... I wouldn't dare derim my 75.

Best of luck!


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## Jason Baliban (Mar 3, 2005)

Might want to add one of these to your list as well...












jB


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## rickztahone (Jul 20, 2009)

Wow, very daring. Do not de-rim the bottom though. Make a stand that will overlap the bottom and not be seen.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

I would leave the bottom rim on. The tank now sits on that rim, but if you remove it, you may not have an even surface for the tank to sit on, depending on how the tank is made. I don't see much visual improvement when the bottom rim comes off.


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## Cuchulainn (Nov 2, 2010)

Good luck Nalu86  With my 75g with a rim, it still bows out 7mm when full. The bracing you mention will help significantly, hopefully enough. Hope to see some pics!


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## nalu86 (Oct 19, 2010)

I will derim it for the heck of it.
I just want to see if it works, if it don't, I wasted $50 and I flood the garage.
I can still put some more glass braces in it on the bottom under the gravel.
I just want to try this, if it works for me, it works for everybody!
what do you guys think about the braces under gravel?

I think his whole project should work without braces. I had a 400 liter in Belgium without any braces and the glass was only 3 mm thicker... So I think this should work. 

thanks for the replys

If it don't work, I have a break nearby to bend metal, so I can save the tank  but I believe this should work if my math is correct!


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## tcampbell (Jun 8, 2006)

The biggest issue if the height of it as well as the quality of silcon and workmanship when making a rimmless tank. Standard factory tanks are built cheaply assuming that the rim will hold it together, but rimless are not. what were the dimensions of the 400l tank you had? The height was the same? 3mm difference in glass thickness is a lot.
A 120X60X45cm tank can be built in 8mm glass (not extremely safe but it has been done)
A 120X60X55 build in with the same glass will fail!
A 120X60X50cm tank can be built in 10mm glass
A 120X60X55cm tank with the same glass will fail!
A 120X60X60cm tank can be built in 12mm glass
A 120X60X65cm tank with the same glass willl fail!

Height not lenght is a big factor!

Most manufactors state the braces on the bottom help in holding the bottom seam together but it does nothing to prevent the top side seams from coming apart with the accidental pressure of cleaning algae too hard, or poor silcon and/or workmanship. Your better of to atleast put small 45 degree triangle corner brace on the top of the of the tank (like eurobraces, but only in the corners, to protect the seams, though will do nothing for center bowing).


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

tcampbell said:


> The biggest issue if the height of it as well as the quality of silcon and workmanship when making a rimmless tank. Standard factory tanks are built cheaply assuming that the rim will hold it together, but rimless are not. what were the dimensions of the 400l tank you had? The height was the same? 3mm difference in glass thickness is a lot.
> A 120X60X45cm tank can be built in 8mm glass (not extremely safe but it has been done)
> A 120X60X55 build in with the same glass will fail!
> A 120X60X50cm tank can be built in 10mm glass
> ...


I think theoretically a narrow strip running the length of the tank, siliconed inside the top at the front and back, siliconed to the front and back as well as on the ends, will be far stronger. That would eliminate the bowing problem too. This would be a modified Eurobrace. Siliconing the ends of such strips would be very difficult, so you could use glass triangles that extend close to the center of the front and back, but only 2-3 inches along the ends, would work well too. To avoid the sharp end of the triangle the ends could be lopped off, probably a good idea for any triangular brace.


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## jsuereth (Dec 21, 2010)

Also a note that length does matter for bowing. If you make a side too long without enough bracing, you're just as screwed as if you use the wrong thickness glass for the height.

The corollary is that you can theoretically brace every 3 inches and have an ugly looking tank with the thinnest possible glass.

Bottom line, make sure you test the tank for a while with water and check bowing to see how much stress you're putting on the glass.


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## ridewake210 (Jan 12, 2007)

Eeeek


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## redfishsc (Aug 29, 2010)

There are a bunch of people in this thread that didn't bother to read the text. He says specifically that he's cutting 3 pieces of glass to use for bracing to keep it from bowing.


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## Joe.1 (Nov 23, 2009)

So what happened????


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## nalu86 (Oct 19, 2010)

Yesterday I had a hangover and today I cleaned the yard.
I will return to the project one of the next days.
If the project fails, I will post it for sure with pics.


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## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

redfishsc said:


> There are a bunch of people in this thread that didn't bother to read the text. He says specifically that he's cutting 3 pieces of glass to use for bracing to keep it from bowing.


Just mounting glass for bracing doesn't just make it "structurally sound".

Thus my first comment in the first reply:



> Did you do some homework on this before you did it? Never heard of anyone derimming a tank this size before.
> 
> Good luck, I hope its a successful project.


The short term is not the real problem, I think its the long term survival that may be the issue. Interesting to see someone experiment.


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## scapegoat (Jun 3, 2010)

i think a clear acrylic rim to replace these solid colored plastic rims would be a suitable idea. with the right glue you can melt the ends of the acrylic together to create a solid piece that would surely do as well, if not a better, job than the default rims and look better.


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## mcubed45 (Jun 30, 2010)

scapegoat said:


> i think a clear acrylic rim to replace these solid colored plastic rims would be a suitable idea. with the right glue you can melt the ends of the acrylic together to create a solid piece that would surely do as well, if not a better, job than the default rims and look better.


that's actually a really neat idea. i wonder if there's any reason manufacturers haven't considered this?


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

mcubed45 said:


> that's actually a really neat idea. i wonder if there's any reason manufacturers haven't considered this?


Because injection molded plastic is easier, cheaper, and much easier to execute properly.


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## nalu86 (Oct 19, 2010)

I did a little bit of homework on this over the last year. 
I read people doing it on 5, 10 and 20. But I always read that no one ever tried to derimm bigger sizes. Everyone is scared to start at a project like this.
So why don't I try it as fist and show you guys what can go wrong or can't go wrong. I think when this works, there will be a lot other people that will follow or still be skeptic (but yeah, I still have to finish ans prove lol).
This is just for the science, if it works, good for me, I guess... If it don't, I wasted some time, some money and probably spilled a lot of water over the floor "wife yelling  " and some cleanwork. 

I will keep all the comments in mined and thank you for them all, I appreciate it! 

I will probably go with the 4 corner triangles and one brace in the middle.
What brand silicone from Home depot or Lowes was aqua and fish proof again ? Or should I go with a better brand?

Thx


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## scapegoat (Jun 3, 2010)

nalu86 said:


> I did a little bit of homework on this over the last year.
> I read people doing it on 5, 10 and 20. But I always read that no one ever tried to derimm bigger sizes. Everyone is scared to start at a project like this.
> So why don't I try it as fist and show you guys what can go wrong or can't go wrong. I think when this works, there will be a lot other people that will follow or still be skeptic (but yeah, I still have to finish ans prove lol).
> This is just for the science, if it works, good for me, I guess... If it don't, I wasted some time, some money and probably spilled a lot of water over the floor "wife yelling  " and some cleanwork.
> ...


my only concern with derimming a tank this size and it working for you is there are a lot of other things to consider. a brand new tank derimmed will probably do better than a 10 year old tank.

i think you're going to want to set up a containment zone, to at least capture any glass. 75 gallons of water in a garage is not a huge deal (especially if it is detached) but 75gallons and shattered glass being moved where ever the water decides to move it is.

something as simple as a parameter of wood studs (2x4) would probably work just fine.

i think people have derimmed larger than 20gs, it just seems they use those as rips


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## JamesHockey (Nov 10, 2010)

I'm pretty sure the older tanks have thicker glass though


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

I'm Interested to see the results although I'm skeptical


You can call me Bob


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## hbosman (Oct 5, 2006)

That glass looks awful thin in comparison to my Oceanic Rimless 57 gallon. And, my tank still has a frame on the bottom which is handy for klutzes like me when moving it around and setting it down. I think bottom frames are good for hiding roots and mulm.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

I predict that this will work very well. The center cross brace may be overkill, but better safe than sorry.

Disclaimer: I am not volunteering to help clean it up if I am wrong.


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## VaultBoy (Nov 11, 2010)

+1 hoppy

I think this will be fine I would install corner braces and build a removable timber centre brace. If you cut a piece of timber a little wider than the tank with a groove at either end to slip over the glass. Then when you fill it with water if the sides flex you won't be able remove the timber brace and it won't smash the tank


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## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

VaultBoy said:


> +1 hoppy
> 
> I think this will be fine I would install corner braces and build a removable timber centre brace. If you cut a piece of timber a little wider than the tank with a groove at either end to slip over the glass. Then when you fill it with water if the sides flex you won't be able remove the timber brace and it won't smash the tank


I've been thinking about that. But wood flexes, and I'm picturing the wood either cracking or literally popping off. A bonus would be that wood also compresses some, so it wouldn't create hard points against the glass like a more rigid material would, if there were any inconsistencies along either surface (there probably would be).


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## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

By the way, as intrigued by this project as I am, and as many times as I read through all the posts, i keep going back to this:



ridewake210 said:


> Eeeek



Nevertheless, good luck! I'm actually pretty excited to see the end result.


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## nalu86 (Oct 19, 2010)

It's raining today... and the project is outside.
Maybe tomorrow. And I still have to order my glas trims.


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## nalu86 (Oct 19, 2010)

I removed the bottom trim and filled it with water.
The middleglass of the tank expanded 7 mm.
I think its trustable without the trims.
Here are some pics:


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## Rockhoe14er (Jan 19, 2011)

wow. That's awesome. I hope it holds.


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## jcardona1 (Jun 27, 2008)

Nice to see the experiement! And I agree, nobody does bigger tanks because they're scared. Heck, I'd be scared to do it. Hope it works out for you!


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## hbosman (Oct 5, 2006)

Keep us updated on it? It would be funny find out that the frame is just for liability issues.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

With that little bowing out, I think I would make 4 glass triangles about 2 inches on the side going against the end glass, and about 6 inches on the side going to the front/back glass. Then glue them in and I don't think there is any chance of problems. For safety I would knock off about 1/4 inch of the sharp point on the triangles, and break all of the corners so they aren't sharp. The corner braces should virtually eliminate the bowing.

I'm assuming that the tank won't come apart in a week of testing. To "proof" test it, push out on the front/back glasses with about a 1 pound push. That should increase the load on the glass by about 50%.


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## nalu86 (Oct 19, 2010)

Hoppy said:


> With that little bowing out, I think I would make 4 glass triangles about 2 inches on the side going against the end glass, and about 6 inches on the side going to the front/back glass. Then glue them in and I don't think there is any chance of problems. For safety I would knock off about 1/4 inch of the sharp point on the triangles, and break all of the corners so they aren't sharp. The corner braces should virtually eliminate the bowing.
> 
> I'm assuming that the tank won't come apart in a week of testing. To "proof" test it, push out on the front/back glasses with about a 1 pound push. That should increase the load on the glass by about 50%.


I think i will go with the triangles and the other piece. 

I pulled on the glass really hard and no problem at all. 
I'm almost 100% sure it will hold.


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

thats awesome! and looks great! ill probably take the bottom rim off my 20 long. im just worried about what will happen if the stand is warped in the middle a bit. or at least uneven


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## hbosman (Oct 5, 2006)

nalu86 said:


> I think i will go with the triangles and the other piece.
> 
> I pulled on the glass really hard and no problem at all.
> I'm almost 100% sure it will hold.


This could be a new trend in DIY. :thumbsup:


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## JACimages (Jan 4, 2011)

hbosman said:


> This could be a new trend in DIY. :thumbsup:


a trend im not going to follow!


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## Rockhoe14er (Jan 19, 2011)

I have a question is your 75 gallon tank fine because it's older and the glass is thicker? would this work on a brand new 75 gallon tank?


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

That looks. Like a very large glass schrapnel grenade - you've got cajones!


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## EntoCraig (Jun 7, 2010)

I want to see how you brace it. If it turns out to be sturdy I may take a shot at a 50.


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## FDNY911 (Dec 6, 2009)

Your my hero Nalu! LoL. I agree you got some Cojones homie! I think that, all though this is a pretty cool break through in DIY Rimless, I don't think any one should ever keep a DIYed tank of this size in the home. This should be for a basement with a drain and/or a garage. 1 week might go by and all is well. After a month or 2, it might be a different story. I was in a LFS yesterday and I found a Deep Blue Aquarium 75 Gallon for 100, lol I was tempted. lol.


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## nalu86 (Oct 19, 2010)

FDNY911 said:


> Your my hero Nalu! LoL. I agree you got some Cojones homie! I think that, all though this is a pretty cool break through in DIY Rimless, I don't think any one should ever keep a DIYed tank of this size in the home. This should be for a basement with a drain and/or a garage. 1 week might go by and all is well. After a month or 2, it might be a different story. I was in a LFS yesterday and I found a Deep Blue Aquarium 75 Gallon for 100, lol I was tempted. lol.


Im not a hero, just someone who likes to experiment lol, thanks tough!
Yeah, I don't want to put the tank like that in my living room with hard wood floors, certainly not without the glass braces. In 3 months I move into my new house (after a 2 month trip to me and my wifes hometowns in Europe)
and then I will finish the tank and place it in my garage, for further tests.
Maybe If the tank is still fine after a year (maybe2 years) I will make one like this and put it in my living room. Would be a beautiful cheap tank 

If you watch craigslist, you can find tanks for free to very low prices. I bought mine for $50 and was 5 years old.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

It's better to be safe than sorry when it comes to glass and ~600 lbs of water. It may hold for a few days or even weeks in your test but it's in your hands ultimately. Have house insurance ready.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

You can also obsess over the possibility of any tank breaking when it is in the living room on a hardwood floor. In reality that tank is either designed with sufficient safety factor while rimless, so the rim is not a structural part, or it isn't. We should be able to make that determination independently. Right? Speak up!!


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## nalu86 (Oct 19, 2010)

Hoppy said:


> You can also obsess over the possibility of any tank breaking when it is in the living room on a hardwood floor. In reality that tank is either designed with sufficient safety factor while rimless, so the rim is not a structural part, or it isn't. We should be able to make that determination independently. Right? Speak up!!


I think they use the plastic rims around the tank to actually fabricate the tank faster.
Some silicone on the bottom rim, place the bottom plate on it, some silicone on the top rim, place left and right side in, and then the front and back. Close the seams with silicone and done! They probably don't need clamps to put the tank together. As it said on the sticker on the tank "made by (person)" I don't think I can put a 75 gal together by myself without wasting hours of time. Those tanks have to been made fast due to make fast money...


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## jsuereth (Dec 21, 2010)

Seems like a reasonable idea.

I'm derimming a 125G (6 foot long) tank shortly, but certainly plan to brace it on the sides and center. I'm really interested to see how this 75G turns out. Rimless is just way more elegant.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

I found this quote which supports your experiment.


> The trim (which is generally plastic) offers LITTLE support other than providing a “cushion” between the bottom glass and stand and as well a “convenient” way to place the lid, lights, etc., on top. Of coarse the *trim does certainly add to the attractiveness*(mg: i like that part  ), but as someone that has worked with high end aquarium manufacturers and built/repaired many myself, I can tell the reader here from an experience that the trim offers little in support and if it is necessary for support, you have a dangerously poorly built aquarium!
> As well, I have removed trim from many tanks (including large ones) and filled them with water with no difference other than the unattractive aspect.


http://www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2007/03/aquarium-silicone.html


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## bigtex52 (Mar 14, 2011)

jcardona1 said:


> Nice to see the experiement! And I agree, nobody does bigger tanks because they're scared.


 I have a 120 that has always been rimless. It's 1/2" glass though, so should be good and strong....I hope! :eek5:


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## bigtex52 (Mar 14, 2011)

One thing I failed to consider in going to a rimless is that if you want to go with a glass top , a rimless tank has no lip to support it. :\


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## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

bigtex52 said:


> One thing I failed to consider in going to a rimless is that if you want to go with a glass top , a rimless tank has no lip to support it. :\


You can always get the clips from someone with an ADA tank. Most people don't use theirs. Just post a wanted thread in the SnS.


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

Did the tank burst yet?


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Any pics of the tank set up, with no rim, plants and fish? We are all holding our breath, you know.


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## CAM6467 (Feb 11, 2009)

I like _*mistergreen*_'s signature. Ha ha! (Post #48)


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## sjuapseorn (Feb 17, 2011)

I don't see why this tank wouldn't hold up to 75g of water without rims. Wouldn't the aquarium split in the corners if it was built poorly regardless of a rim or not?
I know my AGA 29 Gallon has alot of gap between the rim and the glass all the way around so it can't really be holding anything. Plus the pressure from that much water would snap the cheap molded plastic like a twig if the aquarium decided to pop.

of course you know what they say about opinions..

lol


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## nalu86 (Oct 19, 2010)

Its been sitting outside filled with water to the rim from the rain and all green from the pollen. And yes, its still holding water, I think its 100% trust-able  
Like I told a little bit earlier, I will first go to Europe for 2 months and then I will set it up in my new house.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

That is fascinating! If I decide to revamp my 65 gallon riparium, which does have a center brace, I may remove the top rim. I think I would put glass triangle braces in the corners though just for extra safety.


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## redfishsc (Aug 29, 2010)

I'd personally still want to put at least a 1/4" thick center brace about 3" wide (glass) on anything that comes from the factory with a center brace. Somewhat annoying but can be done nicely.


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## nalu86 (Oct 19, 2010)

Hoppy said:


> That is fascinating! If I decide to revamp my 65 gallon riparium, which does have a center brace, I may remove the top rim. I think I would put glass triangle braces in the corners though just for extra safety.


Yes, I will do the triangles to in the near future, when I have some more time.



redfishsc said:


> I'd personally still want to put at least a 1/4" thick center brace about 3" wide (glass) on anything that comes from the factory with a center brace. Somewhat annoying but can be done nicely.


And yes, I will do a glass center brace just to be sure


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## nalu86 (Oct 19, 2010)

Came home yesterday from my 2 months trip in Europe, when I left, the tank was filled up with water from the rain, Today, the tank is still full and is still in top shape. I had a 75 gal full with greenwater with mosquito larves and dafia. My fish loved a couple of scoops of that live food after 2 months only flakes.

I decided to make an aluminum rim and center brace. I don't know if that tank still can be trusted without braces if I drill 5 holes in the back.


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## Optix (May 31, 2011)

you are determined to make a mess arent you...haha!
..vaya con dios!


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## xmas_one (Feb 5, 2010)

A nice wide center brace like a 50 long has and put it on something flat with a neoprene mat, and you're golden.


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## roundar (Jun 12, 2011)

I derimmed my 75g. The glass is 3/8" thick, and it has a glass center brace though.


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## hungmanchina (Jun 4, 2011)

roundar said:


> I derimmed my 75g. The glass is 3/8" thick, and it has a glass center brace though.


makes me want to do my 55g. hows it holding up when filled?


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## redfishsc (Aug 29, 2010)

Roundar, looks GREAT!!!


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## demonr6 (Mar 14, 2011)

Okay, here we are a month later and it is time for an update. I was reading through this wondering about the brace function as well. After removing it top and bottom from a 20g tall that was sitting in someone's yard I realized it cannot be purely decorative? I mean it was hell to remove and I have battle scars to prove it. Sure if the tank fails the plastic rim can snap but this tank was sitting out in someone's yard under a tree for years and I was cursing a storm removing that plastic. 

As much as I would like to trust removing the rim off my 20g L or the 50g I am picking up this week, it still is in the back of my head that I can come home one afternoon after removing the rim and a mess is waiting for me. Tempted but man you really have to think carefully right? I like Roundar's glass center brace though. Not taking away from the look of the tank and not obvious too. 

Insofar as how to deal with a glass lid when you have no rim..


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## secuono (Nov 19, 2009)

Old thread, but I want to know what happened!


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## rroginela (Sep 24, 2011)

^ Ditto....


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## nalu86 (Oct 19, 2010)

It's sitting on the shelf in my garage without braces.
Check my journal post 62 shows it.


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## nalu86 (Oct 19, 2010)

Here is the tank, without support or braces:


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## happi (Dec 18, 2009)

Jason Baliban said:


> Might want to add one of these to your list as well...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


lol:hihi:


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## lbacha (Apr 13, 2011)

That glass brace is actually the support memeber on those tanks (I'm thinking it is an oceanic right). If you take the rim off of a tank like a 55g you will have a huge mess on your hands. I would watch doing it to any tank that has a center brace built into the plastic rim it is there for a reason. I have seen full 55's bow out 2-3" when the center brace broke. Ithen shattered at the top and you know the rest. Any tank that doesn't have a center brace doesn't really use the rim for support other than to hold the hood up.

Len


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## nalu86 (Oct 19, 2010)

lbacha said:


> That glass brace is actually the support memeber on those tanks (I'm thinking it is an oceanic right). If you take the rim off of a tank like a 55g you will have a huge mess on your hands. I would watch doing it to any tank that has a center brace built into the plastic rim it is there for a reason. I have seen full 55's bow out 2-3" when the center brace broke. Ithen shattered at the top and you know the rest. Any tank that doesn't have a center brace doesn't really use the rim for support other than to hold the hood up.
> 
> Len


no, it had a plastic brace in the middle, check post 1. I took everything of. I don't have any braces or support.


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## rawalstrom (Jan 14, 2013)

Is it still together? I plan to de-rim a 75g in the future for a riparium project and am curious about the sustainability of rimless.


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## magnum (Jun 23, 2011)

I'll be damned congrats


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## kwheeler91 (May 26, 2009)

How thicks is the glass and how much bowing do you have?


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## nalu86 (Oct 19, 2010)

kwheeler91 said:


> How thicks is the glass and how much bowing do you have?


It should be mentioned somewhere in the thread. Its just a standard 75. 

Its still going strong. I just emptied it for moving. 

It will go trough its 3rd move... hope it survives it.


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## Desert Pupfish (May 6, 2019)

Dunno if there's a statute of limitation on old threads like this, but was wondering how the 2 75s that @roundar & @nalu86 derimmed & braced are holding up years later? Just bought a new Aqueon 75, and would consider derimming & bracing it if it could withstand the test of time.....


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## Bandit1200 (Dec 11, 2010)

Well, considering the last activities of them, I would say it's doubtful to hear from either any time in the near future.



*nalu86 
*Last Activity: 02-01-2018 04:38 PM


*roundar*
Last Activity: 10-27-2011 12:36 PM


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## Desert Pupfish (May 6, 2019)

Bandit1200 said:


> Well, considering the last activities of them, I would say it's doubtful to hear from either any time in the near future.
> 
> *nalu86
> *Last Activity: 02-01-2018 04:38 PM
> ...


Thanks. Both drowned in a 75 gallon flood, most likely....


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