# How do I treat the ich this time



## Aqua Hero (May 8, 2015)

So I had ordered green neon tetra and scarlet badis online. The badis were fine but the green neons all had white spot(ICH)

Like a fool I didn't check before adding them. Not I have then swimming around in my planted tank. What makes things worse is that I have snails, shrimp and catfish I don't want to kill as well as tons of plants I want to keep alive.

I had this problem before with an old German ram. I managed to cure him in a quarantine tank. And the white spot spores in the planted tank didn't effect my other fish.

Now I can't use the salt treatment. 

The fauna in my tank are 

Cherry Red shrimp
Blue carbon shrimp
Nerite snails
Assassin snails
Pygmy cories 
Otocinclus 
Scarlet badis
Green neon tetra (infected)

Plants

Weeping moss 
Taiwan moss
Spiky moss
Rotala wallichi 
Ammania sp Bonsai 
Eloecharis Acicularis 
Echinodorus tellenus 
Hydrocotyle sp Japan 

Due to the size of my shrimp population I don't mind using a treatment that will affect them. I will remove my snails so they don't get harmed.

Right now my heater in slowly increasing the temperature to 30c (though it could go higher).

What do I do to save the fish I have and not harm my plants


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## WaterLife (Jul 1, 2015)

Kordon Ich Attack (not to be confused with Kordon Rid Ich Plus that has harsh chemicals). It's a herbal medicine and is very safe for fish (even "scaleless" fish), inverts (snails, shrimps) and plants (even sensitive species)! Just what you are looking for! Kordon Rid Fungus (herbal) has the same ingredients as Kordon Ich Attack (herbal), just has a different label for marketing purposes, so you could use Rid Fungus (again, not to be confused with Rid Ich) if you can't find Ich Attack. Very safe med, go right ahead and dose the whole tank.

I can't see how major the ich infestation is, but if it is really bad, you may consider doubling the dose. It's still safe, but still is wise to start with normal dosage and see how fish react, then decide if they would be fine with a higher dosage (most likely they will as this med is very gentle on livestock).

Great med. I personally wouldn't raise the temperature until you are dosing the med, otherwise you are just having the ich multiply faster, without any med in there to kill them, making the infestation worse. Since you will be dosing a med, high temps are not necessary. I wouldn't go past 78*F as you just want to speed the ich lifecycle up so they get to their vulnerable stage faster, dying sooner so the fish can be cured sooner. But with the fish already being stressed from the ich, too warm of water can further stress the fish, possibly making matters worse in itself. Using this med (or the other harsher meds), increasing temps are not even necessary (but it does take longer). Remember to continue dosing/treating for an additional 3-4 days after all the visible ich spots/cysts are gone or else the ich may reinfect.

There is the high heat only method. 86*F is when ich stops reproducing. 89*F is when ich can no longer survive. Actual/accurate temps are necessary to be effective. But as with high heat only, salt only or salt+heat combo treatment, some plants, inverts and fish may not tolerate these methods very well.


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## randym (Sep 20, 2015)

I vote for the heat only method. 

Using Heat to Treat Ich in Freshwater Tropical Fish - Article at The Age of Aquariums - Tropical Fish

No salt or meds. 

Increase filteration and aeration. One, because warmer water holds less oxygen, and two, because you want good circulation in your tank to make sure there aren't any cold spots where ich can survive.

Daily water changes will also help.


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

Best and the kordon stuff if it is indeed plant safe... You can also remove ALL the fish from your tank and qt and treat separately from the plants, ich should die off in the planted tank without a carrier after 1 1/2 weeks... Also it's a fantastic idea to qt All tank additions, plants, fish, inverts, even decor and substrate (if coming from an established tank) just to be on the safe side. 2weeks is usually sufficient though you can stretch out to 4-6 weeks if your paranoid out have wild caught fish


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## Gavin Citrus (Aug 2, 2014)

UV Sterilizer as well.


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## thegirlundertherainbow (Aug 12, 2004)

I vote for heat only and water changes. i increased mine to about 84 when I had it in a densely planted tank with nerites and otos, a bn, and a betta. (these were the first inhabitants and the otos / BN had ich.
The betta got a few spots.. as did one or two to. The BN that was the original one with it and covered (came with the otos from the same LFS but I didn't SEE the spots as it was an albino)..
did not make it.
Not sure if it was the cause of death though.
I got lucky and this worked for my tank.
SOME of my plants suffered a bit though.. and don't have experience with all the plants you listed so can't say for sure how they would do.


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## Aqua Hero (May 8, 2015)

Okay guys so I hears what I have done so far.



















I managed to catch the neons and put them in a cheap quarantine tank. I didn't have a spare filter so I improvised and suction capped a HOB powerhead to the wall and let the water flow to a plant bottle with contains some of my main filter media. I do have a spare heater and it's at around 31-35c. 

As for the main tank









I have my 100watt heater placed directly infornt of two wavemakers. 900lph and 4000lph(questionable). So that the heat is dispersed evenly as possible. I got the heater set at 30c but right now it's around 84f. I did a water change right now on the big tank. 

I did order some paraguard but it's will take about 3-4 days. 

The Ottos and cories have been in an ich scenario before. Do you think they may have grown an immunity. 

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## Aqua Hero (May 8, 2015)

Gavin Citrus said:


> UV Sterilizer as well.


Can't afford it right now

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## vols6 (Nov 16, 2015)

Heat only method worked great for me. I did a ton of research prior to implementing the treatment. I placed two airstones in the tank and slowly increased my temperature. Raising the temp to the low to mid 80's only increases ichs metabolism. When you get to about 86.5 degrees F ich will stop reproducing after it falls off. At 89 degrees it flat out dies. You must keep the temp this high for a bare minimum of 7-10 days after the last sighting of a single white spot. Some say longer but 10 worked for me. Do a 30% or more water change every other day. I kept everything else the same, photoperiod/ ferts/co2/feeding etc. Then slowly decrease the temp back to normal levels. In my opinion it's a mistake to remove the infected fish and introduce ich into another tank, why not just treat them all together? This worked for me and many others, hope this helps and good luck!


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## WaterLife (Jul 1, 2015)

Once ich has been introduced into a water source (tank), it's safe to assume the whole tank is infected, and so the whole tank should be treated to rid the ich.

The way you are doing it now, since the main tank is untreated, the fish (otos, corys and badis) will get infected. They just aren't showing visible spots yet since they have contracted ich later than the green neons (some fish are apparently more resistant to infection, but none are completely immune). To the best of my knowledge, ich will not infect inverts (shrimp, snails), but it can still be carried on them just as it can contaminate/be carried on plants, substrates, and everything else (decor, heater, etc) that is in the infected water. The water itself is contaminated. So now you have two infected tanks.

You could treat both tanks. Or put the green neons back in the main tank and just treat the one whole tank. Or you could place all the fish in the quarantine and treat with whatever med/treatment on the fish that you don't want to use on inverts and plants. 

And for the main tank, with just plants and inverts, you can use a shrimp and plants safe method to treat that tank. Since this tank would have no host (fish) for the ich, it would die off. You could use no meds/additives and just keep the tanks temp raised a bit to speed up the treatment time.

With all that said, here is my opinion on your circumstance.

Here is a good article on ich
Ich | The Skeptical Aquarist

Many people have used the heat only method, salt only or heat+salt combo with success, but I personally do not find it to be the best method. I have tried them and the clear amounts of stress they put on the fish is not something I think too highly of. Not as harmful as harsh meds most of the time, but still not something I would like my fish to go through. Not to mention, sensitive plant and livestock species have a very real chance of dying from this treatment method. And to reiterate the importance of the temperatures being accurate, the actual water temperature must be 86*F+, not 85*F. Remember that heaters AND thermometers can have inaccurate readings by a whole 1 degree or 2 (or greater, these readings can also be over, not just under). And that's not even mentioning that there are indeed heat resistant ich strains out there (some even surviving 90*F+ temps believe it or not). And that's more common than you may know (albeit not all are resistant to 90*F). But that's just another reason why the heat treatment isn't the best option. I really wanted to like heat and/or salt treatments, since I consider them more "natural", and so what I thought would be safe, but it just doesn't pan out that way (depending on the scenario, I might consider harsh meds over this). 

Paraguard is safer than the common Malachite Green, Formalin meds. It is said to be safe for plants and it doesn't specifiy being safe with inverts, but many have used it on inverts with no issues. But I still would consider this a somewhat harsh med.

Kordon Ich Attack really is what I see as the best option. Especially for plants, inverts and sensitive fish. I can't say enough how gentle this med is. It's pretty much therapeutic for the fish, even uninfected fish seem to become "happier" with it in the water. If there was a severe infestation, I would dose at double strength. And if for whatever reason this med did not work or you cannot get it where you live or online, then Paraguard might be my next consideration for a stronger med (depending on the case, I might consider heat/salt/combo, but for your case, Paraguard would be what I recommend).

And yes, increasing aeration/surface agitation is advised, not only with the high heat method, but with meds as well.

UV sterilizers can kill free swimming/floating ich, but it's not worth it for dealing with ich. As you can imagine, it's not so easy to be sure 100% of the water passes through the UV. So hard that I've heard even the the most effective UV systems (on a well circulated aquarium) could not indefinitely cure an infected tank. I understand the life stages of ich, but it still manages to remain populating a tank. It does slow down the outbreak and reduce it some though (it does kill some, but doesn't manage to kill it all). UV's have many health benefits, but using it to cure ich, is not a solid choice.

Since you already ordered Paraguard, I would use that. But as I mentioned, I would not recommend raising the temps until you have the med (or the day before), as you are merely increasing the ich infestation, making the fish worse. Lower temps can actually slow it down, but as with raising temps, it should be gradual (and still within range of the fish's preferences) Being as Paraguard is still what I consider a bit harsh med, I wouldn't be surprised if the heaviest infested fish die (the ich along with the extra stress the med brings onto their system, the fish succumb). Everything else should be fine (plants, inverts, other fish). Sensitive fish should be fine as well, seeing how inverts usually have no issues, but can't say for certain.

If you could get Kordon Ich Attack or Paraguard in stores, treating sooner would be preferred, but if not an option, waiting for Paraguard is what I would do.

Despite others recommendations, I would have to kindly disagree, the heat only, salt only, or heat+salt methods I would not recommend as I am more than fairly sure you would have some deaths (as a result of treatment method, not due to ich). And/or other complications (fish more stressed and vulnerable to other diseases, shortened lifespan from the trauma, surely some plants will melt).

This is my personal opinion based on what I have experienced and come to know. Feel free to go with any method, I am merely offering advise.


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## garfieldnfish (Sep 25, 2010)

Your shrimp will not survive the temps needed to kill off ich and some of your plants may melt. Also ich can survive much longer then the 1 1/2 weeks mentioned without a host. Use Rid Ich by Kordon as suggested. Safe, easy and effective and will not kill your fish, shrimp and snails. It may stain the silicone in your aquarium a lightly blue color, but that is hardly noticeable. Your mosses will be ok. I cannot vouch for the other plants as I have never had them but if one week of treatment is enough for the fish, the plants should be ok as well.
Otos and corys are not immune to ich even if they had it before. It is a parasite not a virus. Like fleas on cats.
Seeing that your are in England you may not be able to get the Kordon meds. Find any ich medicine containing formaldehyde and malachite green.


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## WaterGuy82 (Jan 24, 2016)

I have used Ruby Reef Kick-Ich... It's safe for the inverts and plants, and it actually works very good. Don't be fooled by some of these other "organic" products out there... My friends and myself in the hobby have never had any luck with those but ruby reef kick-ich works like a charm every time. 

Good luck!


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## vols6 (Nov 16, 2015)

No casualties for me with heat only method. Livestock include ottos, corys, amano shrimp, nerites, tetras, among many other things. Not a single adverse reaction among any plants, xmas moss, swords, micro sword, various stem plants etc. I must also say that I caught it very early. Only about half of my fish had it with the worst only having 7-15 spots. I don't have any experience with any of these meds but if these guys/gals say it works and that's the route that you wanna take then id trust them. I just prefer as natural as possible (if you consider cranking up a creatures temperature 10+ degrees for a couple weeks to be natural) haha. Good luck, F ICH


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## biotex3 (Oct 1, 2014)

+1 for Kordon Ich attack and heat with lots of water changes. As a bonus, got all my inverts breeding as well!


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

Well if you intend to speed up the cycle, also increase dark time... the buggers are light sensitive...
I have always been of the position that the spores can stay dormant for longer than a short dose, so I always treat for at least one month.
I use Tetra's ich medication, no problem with plants or snails, I have never kept shrimp though.


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## WaterLife (Jul 1, 2015)

biotex3 said:


> +1 for Kordon Ich attack and heat with lots of water changes. As a bonus, got all my inverts breeding as well!


Haha, very cool to hear!


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## sevendust111 (Jul 15, 2014)

I will never do the heat treatment again. Once I got to about 87, my rummynose just couldn't hang on. I lost 4 out of 8 in 24 hours and my crypts melted. I put the remaining 4 in a 10 gallon with an air stone and cheap heater. I did about a 30% water change everyday. The rummys have been symptom free for a little over two weeks and I am just about to return them to there tank. They were the only fish in this tank.


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## Gavin Citrus (Aug 2, 2014)

UV Sterilizers are like $25 on Amazon? Half these medications that likely won't help are going to cost $8-12.

Don't do two of them and instead get the UV.


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## Aqua Hero (May 8, 2015)

Well months before buying my neons I learnt that they can handle 30c. So I already started with the heat treatment with salt. I added 3 1/2 teaspoon of rock salt in the 3 gallon quarantine. The tank temperature is probably around 30c -34c. So far the fish are doing fine. No deaths and they are still active.

I'm in the UK and the shipping cost of Kordon is to much for me. UV sterilisers aren't cheap here either.

My main tank is at 86f and all inhabitants are fine so far. No flashing, loss of appetite or less activity. As I said they have gone through an ich episode before so my guess is they could have grown an immunity.

I ordered seachem paraguard cause it was cheap and accessible.

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## WaterLife (Jul 1, 2015)

Gavin Citrus said:


> UV Sterilizers are like $25 on Amazon? Half these medications that likely won't help are going to cost $8-12.
> 
> Don't do two of them and instead get the UV.


You might like this article that goes very in depth on UV's. Not all are created equal.
Aquarium & Pond UV Sterilization | How to use a UVC Sterilizer





To the OP, for what it's worth, the more stress you add on the fish, the harder it is on them.

They are already in stress from the ich. Raising the temps, as well as lower amounts of dissolved oxygen. Even if you increase aeration, there is still a lower amount of dissolved oxygen able to be withheld in the water, fish can sense this and it can stress them a bit, normally they can tolerate this just fine when they are healthy/stress-free. Of course the higher the temp, the more stressed/uncomfortable they will be (depending on species), along with the probable more rapid breathing. I am not sure if metabolism and "less/insufficient" food impacts at all. Salt at very low levels can be therapeutic for some fish, but the amounts used for treating ich are a bit too elevated and so that can stress out the livestock as well.

Most meds, particularly harsher ones, can stress out the fish quite a lot (depending on med). Prolonged exposure to meds also has a big impact.

The more stressors on the fish, the more likely they won't do so well, or even die. Even if they don't die, high levels of stress/traumatic experience, can shorten their lifespan (how short, depends on severity).

Just my humble opinion, but it is best to minimize stress on the fish as much as possible. So again, I would advise just waiting until Paraguard arrives, then dose that as the treatment. You can increase the temps (78*F or so, not too high) to shorten treatment time, that way the fish have less exposure time to the meds and ich itself, so the quickest recovery with minimal health impacts.

Or you could just do the heat only, salt only, or heat+salt combo if that's what you want to do. I would just recommend sticking with one treatment course rather than combine (meds, salt, high heat) them all.

Just my last bit of advice.
Cheers


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## Aqua Hero (May 8, 2015)

Cheers for the help guys but the numbers have gone from 9 to 4. And another one is about to close it's eyes.

I am thinking of just pulling the plug ang being done with it. 

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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

Look it happens, be glad you didn't loose a school of discus or something expensive.
Let things take their coarse, and if worst comes to pass, just run the tank for a month with no fish.


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## WaterLife (Jul 1, 2015)

Sorry for not checking back until now.

Remember the other tank is still infected, even if fish aren't showing symptoms yet. Since the other tank also has ich, you still have the battle to fight, so don't give up on any of the fish. Ich is a very common issue and is a pretty easy thing to treat.

With any sick fish, stress is really something you got to be aware of. Chasing and netting the neons and putting them in a new environment is a pretty traumatic for fish, especially when they are sick. So you must realize any other stress that is add onto the fish, decreases their chances of surviving, which is why I say it's critical to minimize stress as much as possible.

But what's done is done. Hopefully you didn't "pull the plug" yet. We as fish keepers, took in the lives and well being of the fish we got and it's up to us to take the responsibility of caring for the fish. Their life is in our hands, disheartening as it may be to deal with these issues, we should try as much as we can to save their lives and not just give up/kill them because it's something we don't feel like dealing with.

Well, again, I wouldn't raise the temp until you have the meds, because as I said, you would just be further infesting the fish with ick, making things worse. When you have the paraguard, just leave the neons in their separate tank and not catch them so they aren't stressed again. Treat both tanks. You can raise the temp slightly to 78*F or so, you don't need to go much higher as the medicine is doing all the work, you just want to speed up the ich lifestages a little bit to kill the ich faster. But you don't want the temp too high as that will just stress the fish and isn't necessary when treating with a med. Dose the med according to the instructions. Dose for an additional 3-4 days after all white spots are gone (kills ich lifestages that are not visible to the naked human eye). After treatment, use activated carbon if necessary and do water changes if necessary. Give the neons a few days or so in the separate tank to recover/relax from the whole ordeal, then move them back into the main tank.

Sterilize/clean the smaller quarantine tank and use that next time for any new fish to be quarantined, that way you don't have to worry about new fish infecting all of your other fish.



If you are just going to give up on the neons, at the very least to give them some sort of chance at ridding the ich, at least leave the heater on to warm the water to +86*F (maybe try for 88*F incase the heater is 2 degrees off. Assuming the water is actually at 86*F, where ich stop reproducing, factoring in the sped up ich lifestages, they should be ich-free within 2 weeks, if they are still alive.


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## cubecube (Oct 7, 2015)

My fish has ich too ! 
Learn my lesson now. Should have put them in separate tank before i put them in my main tank.
Picked up a couple of black neon from local fish store a week ago. 3-4 days later i see ich on them, move them to quarantine tank right the way. However my old fish already infected. Run out to buy Kordon Ich Attack and used for 3 days. Don't see any effect yet, (Properly need more time) but my fish still eating good.

My question is should i perform regular weekly water change now or should i wait for them to cure before i change the water ?

Thanks


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## ibebian (Jan 11, 2016)

A previous tank of mine did well on the heat treatment plus Microbe-Lift's Herbtana (and Artemiss for bacterial stuff, I really recommend this line). It was heavily stocked with amano, glass shrimp, black neon tetras, red-eye tetras and angelfish.

It's also supposed to be pretty safe as long as you dilute it a little before adding into the tank (as in don't pour a capful right into the water with little circulation), and I lost no flora/fauna and had no visible stress.

https://www.microbelift.com/products/home-aquarium/fish-health/herbtana-freshwater/


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