# Raising GH in Tank



## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

If you search for "gh booster" then you will find a number of products to choose from.

When doing regular water changes, up gh/kh of the new water to the same levels as your tank water.

http://fins.actwin.com/mirror/begin-chem.html

Your pH will increase, read the above on specifics.


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## dakotablue (Mar 9, 2018)

I have soft water as well and use Equilibrium for upping GH and alkaline booster for increasing kh(depending on the shrimp) but there are plenty of products out there. Just do small water changes with the new water mixed to the GH and KH you want and you'll gradually get the whole tank to those parameters without stressing out the current inhabitants.

Then you will be ready for some shrimp! 🙂

Oh and about evaporation. If you can top off with RO water that's ideal. If not you can test your GH and KH levels every so often, snd if they are increasing just put a little less of the GH KH boosters in to your water changes. That way you can find a good balance.


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## loveflying1991 (Aug 21, 2017)

Thanks for the input dakotablue. I was thinking the same thing regarding the evaporation. I don't have an rodi unit, so I guess I will try to stick with lowering my gh booster in water changes. 

Do you always use a Gh/kh test when doing water changes or do you use a tds meter for a quick proxy?

Bump: Does low KH have a big impact on cherries? I was thinking of just raising the GH because of future possibilities with CRS.


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## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

loveflying1991 said:


> Thanks for the input dakotablue. I was thinking the same thing regarding the evaporation. I don't have an rodi unit, so I guess I will try to stick with lowering my gh booster in water changes.
> 
> Do you always use a Gh/kh test when doing water changes or do you use a tds meter for a quick proxy?
> 
> Bump: Does low KH have a big impact on cherries? I was thinking of just raising the GH because of future possibilities with CRS.


If you are doing significant weekly water changes, topping off evaporation with your tap will be fine since your tap is already so low in mineral content.

To answer your other questions, increasing by 2 dGH per week is fine. For neocaridina, you should be shooting for closer to 8 dGH, and SaltyShrimp GH/KH+ is what you would want to use. This will increase KH and bring the pH up to more proper parameters for them.

Having said that, your water being so acidic is already perfect for caridinas. I'd jump right to CRS and remineralize with GH+ (no KH) unless you just really want the neos too. In that case, you'll want to bring dGH up to 6 and leave KH alone.


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## loveflying1991 (Aug 21, 2017)

natemcnutty said:


> If you are doing significant weekly water changes, topping off evaporation with your tap will be fine since your tap is already so low in mineral content.
> 
> To answer your other questions, increasing by 2 dGH per week is fine. For neocaridina, you should be shooting for closer to 8 dGH, and SaltyShrimp GH/KH+ is what you would want to use. This will increase KH and bring the pH up to more proper parameters for them.
> 
> Having said that, your water being so acidic is already perfect for caridinas. I'd jump right to CRS and remineralize with GH+ (no KH) unless you just really want the neos too. In that case, you'll want to bring dGH up to 6 and leave KH alone.


Thanks for the input natemcnutty. Something I've been struggling with is deciding between CRS and cherries. It did occur to me as well that my water right now seems to favor CRS if I bump my GH as you suggested. My only concern is whether my EI dosing, co2, and weekly 50% wc will negatively impact CRS because they are more sensitive than neos. 

What do you think?


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## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

So, this isn't a planted tank with CO2 issues, correct? In that case, I'd move KH to 3-4 dKH, which can be done right away. IMO, your KH is too low and might result in uncomfortable acidic conditions developing too rapidly. If you have a planted tank with pressurized CO2, then a KH of about 2 dKH is reasonable and higher would work as well.

GH is a little different and, for the sake of the fish, I'd tend to focus upon TDS. TDS below 200-300 is ideal for community fish, 400-500 starts to pressure them and more can weaken them so that other things can take hold, such as disease. GH components can heavily affect TDS levels (a TDS meter on Amazon is around $15). I'd raise GH by 1 dGH daily until you reach your target. This will allow the fish enough time to adapt to the TDS changes. Generally, a 10% daily change in TDS is well tolerated by fish.


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## loveflying1991 (Aug 21, 2017)

Deanna said:


> So, this isn't a planted tank with CO2 issues, correct? In that case, I'd move KH to 3-4 dKH, which can be done right away. IMO, your KH is too low and might result in uncomfortable acidic conditions developing too rapidly. If you have a planted tank with pressurized CO2, then a KH of about 2 dKH is reasonable and higher would work as well.
> 
> GH is a little different and, for the sake of the fish, I'd tend to focus upon TDS. TDS below 200-300 is ideal for community fish, 400-500 starts to pressure them and more can weaken them so that other things can take hold, such as disease. GH components can heavily affect TDS levels (a TDS meter on Amazon is around $15). I'd raise GH by 1 dGH daily until you reach your target. This will allow the fish enough time to adapt to the TDS changes. Generally, a 10% daily change in TDS is well tolerated by fish.


Thank you for the input Deanna. My tank is actually running pressurized co2. I know this isn't an accurate measure but my drop checker does turn a solid light green by the end of the photo period (not quite lime green). 

What are your thoughts on CRS vs cherries given my water conditions?

Thanks for any input.


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## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

loveflying1991 said:


> Thanks for the input natemcnutty. Something I've been struggling with is deciding between CRS and cherries. It did occur to me as well that my water right now seems to favor CRS if I bump my GH as you suggested. My only concern is whether my EI dosing, co2, and weekly 50% wc will negatively impact CRS because they are more sensitive than neos.
> 
> What do you think?


With my CRS, I've gone from minimal dosing with no CO2 to half EI and 15ppm CO2 to full EI and 30 ppm CO2, and I would not recommend going past that half EI point. Right now, I inject to about 10-15 ppm in their tank trying too recover that colony.

Everything was running great for about a year at half EI, so I moved up to full EI trying to keep some harder to keep plants. In the first few months, I initially noticed less berried and lower survival rate of babies. Not a huge deal as I was overrunning the tank at the time, but eventually I had to miss a couple weeks of maintenance due to work and started noticing some deaths after returning. It appeared to be bacterial infections, and I've been playing catch-up for the last several months trying to save things. Deaths have stopped, but so has breeding...

I think a big part of it is detritus builds up bacteria a lot quicker in high tech tanks, and I wasn't doing a great job of cleaning either. Lots of variables, but in my opinion, you're setting yourself up for eventual heartache putting CRS in a standard full EI environment. As hardy as I think they are, I don't think they can thrive in it long term.


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## loveflying1991 (Aug 21, 2017)

natemcnutty said:


> With my CRS, I've gone from minimal dosing with no CO2 to half EI and 15ppm CO2 to full EI and 30 ppm CO2, and I would not recommend going past that half EI point. Right now, I inject to about 10-15 ppm in their tank trying too recover that colony.
> 
> Everything was running great for about a year at half EI, so I moved up to full EI trying to keep some harder to keep plants. In the first few months, I initially noticed less berried and lower survival rate of babies. Not a huge deal as I was overrunning the tank at the time, but eventually I had to miss a couple weeks of maintenance due to work and started noticing some deaths after returning. It appeared to be bacterial infections, and I've been playing catch-up for the last several months trying to save things. Deaths have stopped, but so has breeding...
> 
> I think a big part of it is detritus builds up bacteria a lot quicker in high tech tanks, and I wasn't doing a great job of cleaning either. Lots of variables, but in my opinion, you're setting yourself up for eventual heartache putting CRS in a standard full EI environment. As hardy as I think they are, I don't think they can thrive in it long term.


Thank you for sharing your experience! From what you've shared, if I raise my GH like you suggested in the post above and reduce my EI to half, would that be acceptable for CRS or Tangerine Tigers(really like their look). 

Or should I try to get my water more in line with cherries and continue my ferts and co2?


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## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

loveflying1991 said:


> Thank you for the input Deanna. My tank is actually running pressurized co2. I know this isn't an accurate measure but my drop checker does turn a solid light green by the end of the photo period (not quite lime green).
> 
> What are your thoughts on CRS vs cherries given my water conditions?
> 
> Thanks for any input.


I'd rely upon @natemcnutty for advice on shrimp. I have a bunch of Amano's, but I haven't ever focused upon shrimp. My concern was more with your fish and obtaining safe and slowly adjusted TDS.

Regarding your CO2 levels, a drop checker is good as a 'canary in the mine' thing. Once you find your targeted CO2, the drop checker will give you an easily visible warning if your CO2 is drifting uncomfortably. I have found that the reference solution needs to be changed every 2-3 weeks or it becomes stale and doesn't change color easily. I assume you are using a reputable solution (such as Fluval) or making it yourself correctly (distilled water). You can better determine the actual CO2 level more readily by comparing pH changes from fully gassed to fully degassed. If you don't know how to do that, let us know.


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## loveflying1991 (Aug 21, 2017)

Deanna said:


> I'd rely upon @natemcnutty for advice on shrimp. I have a bunch of Amano's, but I haven't ever focused upon shrimp. My concern was more with your fish and obtaining safe and slowly adjusted TDS.
> 
> Regarding your CO2 levels, a drop checker is good as a 'canary in the mine' thing. Once you find your targeted CO2, the drop checker will give you an easily visible warning if your CO2 is drifting uncomfortably. I have found that the reference solution needs to be changed every 2-3 weeks or it becomes stale and doesn't change color easily. I assume you are using a reputable solution (such as Fluval) or making it yourself correctly (distilled water). You can better determine the actual CO2 level more readily by comparing pH changes from fully gassed to fully degassed. If you don't know how to do that, let us know.


Hi Deanna, I have never tried to accurately check co2 using ph, so that would be great info. 

What I do know is that my API kit for normal range ph won't read my ph once the co2 is on. It drops below 6, which is the lowest my kit seems to show. 

Also thank you for your advice on the raising GH in a community tank. I currently have many fry at different levels of development thanks to my very promiscuous dwarf pencilfish, and I wouldn't want to suffer unnecessary losses from them. 

Although in the future, I may introduce some new fish (right now it's just the pencils) because I think I need some population control for those guys. I started out with 25, lost 2 through my carelessness, but now have at least 10 subadults and many more fry. But, this is an issue for another thread I think. 

Thank you for your advice.


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## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

loveflying1991 said:


> Hi Deanna, I have never tried to accurately check co2 using ph, so that would be great info.
> 
> What I do know is that my API kit for normal range ph won't read my ph once the co2 is on. It drops below 6, which is the lowest my kit seems to show.
> 
> ...


OK. First place to start is with the KH. I assume that you have a GH/KH test kit, such as API's. Raise KH to 2 dKH. When you do that, it will also raise the pH and you will get higher pH readings. With every water change, you will have to measure KH in order to learn how much baking soda (NOT baking powder) to add after each water change to maintain the 2 dKH. You can go higher, but @natemcnutty advised that your shrimp will prefer more acidic conditions and 2 dKH will be close and still give you some buffering.

Once you are at 2 dKH, take some of your tank water out and let it sit for 24 hours. This will de-gas it (allow the CO2 to leave). Measure the pH once it is fully de-gassed. Next, when the tank has had the CO2 running for about 2-3 hours or more, test the pH of the tank water. The KH of the de-gassed water and the tank water must be the same, so don't make any other changes to the KH in the tank until after you make the comparison. A one point difference between the two pH values equals ~30 ppm of CO2. That is the mid-green point on your drop checker. You can also find your CO2 level on this site, using pH and KH values: Rotala Butterfly | Planted Aquarium CO2 Calculator

Get a GH booster as per @OVT. Amazon or you LFS can provide it. A TDS meter won't accurately reflect GH since there are many other dissolved solids in your tank other than GH components.


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## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

Before throwing in baking soda or raising KH, let's make sure you aren't using a buffering substrate. What exactly is your substrate right now?


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## loveflying1991 (Aug 21, 2017)

natemcnutty said:


> Before throwing in baking soda or raising KH, let's make sure you aren't using a buffering substrate. What exactly is your substrate right now?


I do believe that my substrate does buffer. I am using ada amazonia (about 8 months old)


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## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

loveflying1991 said:


> I do believe that my substrate does buffer. I am using ada amazonia (about 8 months old)


Yup, so don't add baking soda. Your substrate is acting as the buffer. Adding KH will simply exhaust the buffing capacity of your substrate sooner, and the substrate will remove the KH anyways


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## loveflying1991 (Aug 21, 2017)

natemcnutty said:


> Yup, so don't add baking soda. Your substrate is acting as the buffer. Adding KH will simply exhaust the buffing capacity of your substrate sooner, and the substrate will remove the KH anyways




So it would be best to skip the cherries and just get crs after bringing up gh to 6? Would tangerine tigers work as well?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

natemcnutty said:


> Yup, so don't add baking soda. Your substrate is acting as the buffer. Adding KH will simply exhaust the buffing capacity of your substrate sooner, and the substrate will remove the KH anyways


Are you at all concerned about the acidic effect upon the fish or the suspension of the nitrogen cycle? If he keeps showing below 6 pH, both can be affected. Wouldn't you want some buffering into the 2 dKH area just to control this? The substrate isn't actually buffering, it's removing the buffer.


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## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

loveflying1991 said:


> So it would be best to skip the cherries and just get crs after bringing up gh to 6? Would tangerine tigers work as well?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Personally, that's what I would do. If this is your first time keeping shrimp, go easy mode and pick up a shrimp specific remineralizer and Target between 5-6 dGH (so color change at 6 drops on the test). 

Since you don't have RO, you'll be adding slightly less than the remineralizer directions tell you. It might take a bit to figure this out, and you'll have to keep an eye on your tap parameters in case they change and mess up your dosing. That's why I like to shoot middle of the dGH range when using tap.

I've seen TT's kept in both neocaridina parameters and normal caridina parameters. I would try to find someone who keeps them in similar parameters to your tank. That's usually the best way to do it.


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## loveflying1991 (Aug 21, 2017)

Thanks for advice. I’ll try to find tangerine tigers in similar water as my tank and if not then crs. 

Probably going to get salty shrimp gh+ to get gh to 6.

Do I need to monitor tds as well?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

Deanna said:


> Are you at all concerned about the acidic effect upon the fish or the suspension of the nitrogen cycle? If he keeps showing below 6 pH, both can be affected. Wouldn't you want some buffering into the 2 dKH area just to control this? The substrate isn't actually buffering, it's removing the buffer.


Having never kept them, I have to rely on the Internet, but I read that pencilfish are fine down to 5.5. I don't see an issue here for fish from more acidic waters, but obviously we aren't going to want to keep cichlids in this tank.

For the BB, the plants are doing the best majority of the biofiltration at this point anyway, but this low of a pH will really only slow them down, not kill them off. You still have carbonates from dissolving snail shells, but I don't know if that is enough to keep them fed.

I can say that I've been keeping guppies and neon tetras in my Aquasoil tank for about a year without ever adding KH other than to initially cycle the tank. I have had a couple of dead guppies in the last year, but I attributed those to high nitrates since the tank was at 80+ ppm at the time.


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## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

loveflying1991 said:


> Thanks for advice. I’ll try to find tangerine tigers in similar water as my tank and if not then crs.
> 
> Probably going to get salty shrimp gh+ to get gh to 6.
> 
> ...


TT's look pretty cool, and I believe they're pretty hardy as well.

TDS meters are super helpful in gauging where your tank is at, but it doesn't tell you what is in the water. The way you'll use it is as a benchmark against itself. Take TDS reply after water change, know what you add for fertilizers, and then the TDS increase over that is telling you a story of what is going on. If you are consistently at 170 TDS to start and finish at 200 TDS on water change day, then anything outside that is not normal and could indicate an issue (bad measurement on remineralizer or overdosing fertilizers).


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## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

natemcnutty said:


> Having never kept them, I have to rely on the Internet, but I read that pencilfish are fine down to 5.5. I don't see an issue here for fish from more acidic waters, but obviously we aren't going to want to keep cichlids in this tank.
> 
> For the BB, the plants are doing the best majority of the biofiltration at this point anyway, but this low of a pH will really only slow them down, not kill them off. You still have carbonates from dissolving snail shells, but I don't know if that is enough to keep them fed.
> 
> I can say that I've been keeping guppies and neon tetras in my Aquasoil tank for about a year without ever adding KH other than to initially cycle the tank. I have had a couple of dead guppies in the last year, but I attributed those to high nitrates since the tank was at 80+ ppm at the time.


Then the Pencilfish may work out. I'd keep an eye on the ammonia levels, just in case it starts spiking from a suspended biofilter. Seachem makes a good monitor that hangs inside the tank. Guppies prefer alkaline waters, so that might explain their weakness, but the neons were probably fine in the acidic water.


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## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

Deanna said:


> Then the Pencilfish may work out. I'd keep an eye on the ammonia levels, just in case it starts spiking from a suspended biofilter. Seachem makes a good monitor that hangs inside the tank. Guppies prefer alkaline waters, so that might explain their weakness, but the neons were probably fine in the acidic water.


For all intents and purposes, there is no ammonia left in the water at this pH and temperature. So we don't have to worry quite as much about fish.

For the cycle, I wouldn't worry about it. Nitrosomonas, which oxidizes NH4 to NO2, is fine down to. 6. Nitrobacter, which oxydizes NO2 to NO3, is fine down to 5.8. Honestly, the plants are probably acting as the biofilter faster than the bacteria can get to it.

Seeing as how I've had hundreds of fancy guppies in this tank with a pH around 6.4 and lost 2 after missing two water changes, I'm pretty sure it was the nitrates, not the acidity. If it were, issue would have presented in much more than 2 of several hundred


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## loveflying1991 (Aug 21, 2017)

Deanna said:


> Are you at all concerned about the acidic effect upon the fish or the suspension of the nitrogen cycle? If he keeps showing below 6 pH, both can be affected. Wouldn't you want some buffering into the 2 dKH area just to control this? The substrate isn't actually buffering, it's removing the buffer.


I haven't noticed anything odd in terms of affect on the fish. In fact they are breeding like crazy. 

I am using biocenosis baskets instead of traditional bio media, which is supposed to also keep nitrates low. Not sure if this form of bio filtration is more or less stable though.

I haven't noticed water spikes in ammonia or nitrite since finishing my cycle though.

Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Tapatalk


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## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

loveflying1991 said:


> I haven't noticed anything odd in terms of affect on the fish. In fact they are breeding like crazy.
> 
> I am using biocenosis baskets instead of traditional bio media, which is supposed to also keep nitrates low. Not sure if this form of bio filtration is more or less stable though.
> 
> ...


I think you're in good hands with @natemcnutty. He has the shrimp experience as well as ADA substrate experience. I only use inert substrate and treat the water column as the end-all for plants and fish. Once you maintain pH below 6, with no buffering capacity, you're in a world that is outside my comfort zone. My gut says it's a high risk region where one bit of destabilization can cascade into quick trouble, but that's because I've always tried to avoid such parameters. For example; I would never try to limit nitrates in a planted tank. Some fish do well in acidic conditions. As long as you focus on those, you will probably avoid stressing them.


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