# Planning out Mr. Aqua 6.5 (Overkill)



## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

Hi everyone! I'm in the process of considering getting back into aquariums and looking to jump back into the nano world with a Mr. Aqua 6.5. I still have my Current Satellite Freshwater + which I plan to use on it until I order the Plus PRO, but I've run into some stand stills in ideas that I wanted to run by some people to see if I could get some input. 

One of my main concerns when it comes to nano's is thermal consistency. Before with Power Compact lighting, which I was using years ago, I had to worry about the little setups overheating, but now with LED's I find it's harder to keep the tanks warm due to ambient temps from lighting. That said I'd like to find a heating solution that not only fits but doesn't take up space. My only real option is inline heating to get a clean look. I plan on running a Finnex 360 canister, so running a Hydor inline made sense, but I was unsure if it would be overkill for a 6.5 gal since they are rated for 28 gallons. I'm also unsure if this should be connected to the input of the filter or the output. I'm thinking the output to keep particles of stuff from building up, even though I'm probably going to run a prefilter.

I'm considering trying to hide a much of the hardware as possible so lily pipes on the canister filter are a long term goal as well as an inline CO2 diffuser. I'm use to the U.P. Aqua or Do! Aqua diffusers which just connect via airline from the regulator so inline diffusers are new for me to setup. Again, like the inline heater, I'm un sure if I should put this on the input our output of the filter. I've run CO2 through the intake of a canister filter before so the impeller assisted in diffusing as well as the gas passing through the media, but I'm not sure if that's healthy for the pump let alone the buildup of gas being healthy for the anaerobic bacteria that lives in the filter. Since I moved I've somehow miss placed my 20lb tank so I'm considering either moving to a smaller option of the disposable cartridges since it would be a more compact setup. I do understand that the 12g/20g cartridges do expel gas fairly quick, as well have a higher overall cost, but I'm interested in seeing if this is a more manageable setup. 

Anyone have any takes on those hardware questions? 

The longterm goal with the setup is to have medium to high light requirement plants. To give you a mental picture I'm going for a lush foreground carpet of UG, S. Repens patch (not really light dependent from my experience) and a patch of L. Mauritania. I have a nice small piece of drift wood that I'd like to attach some Anubias Nana "petite" to as well as a fill in the rear of it with Windelov Java Fern. Right now it sounds very green and I plan to add some stem plants in the rear to add some reds as well as an accent with a tiger lotus.


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

After a little bit of reading it looks like I'll be looking more into an Eheim rather than the Finnex option I was going for. I've used Fluval's for years, but they never seem to be able to hold up in the long run. Would a 2211 or a 2113 plus an inline heater and inline diffuser be slow enough to no be blasting the media around in the tank, let alone the plants and inhabitants?


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## wlevine09 (Apr 7, 2014)

If this is the mr Aqua 6 gallon long (2 feet wide 9 inches tall 5ish deep) then I have the same tank. I use the Tom Aquarium Rapids mini with the original piped switched out for 10 mm clear tubing and glass inflow and outflow. As for the heater, definitely run it on the outflow so like you said you dont get unnecessary buildup of organics. I have my co2 using a regular diffuser, but my buddy has one of the glass inline ones that he keeps on his outflow as well. I think the closer to the filter on the outflow side the better as it gives more time for the co2 bubbles to diffuse into the water. Just throwing out some of my own experiences to try to help.


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## bereninga (Mar 18, 2006)

I have an Eheim Classic 2213. I've had it for 9 years and still works perfectly. I also am in the same boat about wanting to use an inline heater for a nano (Fluval 6g Edge). I also have concerns about a 200-watt heater running on it. People have said that a good failsafe is to have a heater controller, but that's adds to the investment. Man, I wish there was a nano inline heater!

As for CO2, I plan on using a diffuser vs inline. Inline heater plus inline diffuser would require a pretty complicated set-up for a nano.


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## loach guy (Jun 2, 2014)

The freshwater+ is probably going to be strong enough for what you need. Always use a temperature controller. The $25 is the best insurance you can buy.


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

wlevine09 said:


> If this is the mr Aqua 6 gallon long (2 feet wide 9 inches tall 5ish deep) then I have the same tank. I use the Tom Aquarium Rapids mini with the original piped switched out for 10 mm clear tubing and glass inflow and outflow. As for the heater, definitely run it on the outflow so like you said you dont get unnecessary buildup of organics. I have my co2 using a regular diffuser, but my buddy has one of the glass inline ones that he keeps on his outflow as well. I think the closer to the filter on the outflow side the better as it gives more time for the co2 bubbles to diffuse into the water. Just throwing out some of my own experiences to try to help.


That's the dimensions for the 6.5 gal. How is the Rapid's filter? I use to run 501's on my 2 gallon cubes, but realize they are very inefficient and will not really support a larger setup. Plus they clog quickly it seems and I'm not a fan of their hoses.



bereninga said:


> I have an Eheim Classic 2213. I've had it for 9 years and still works perfectly. I also am in the same boat about wanting to use an inline heater for a nano (Fluval 6g Edge). I also have concerns about a 200-watt heater running on it. People have said that a good failsafe is to have a heater controller, but that's adds to the investment. Man, I wish there was a nano inline heater!
> 
> As for CO2, I plan on using a diffuser vs inline. Inline heater plus inline diffuser would require a pretty complicated set-up for a nano.


Would there be any reason for me to go with a 2213 over a 2211 for a 6.5 gallon? I do get that inline devices will slow the flow, but will the inline heater and diffuser kill the flow too much on a 2211? I'm planning on going with the Hydor and a thermostat in the tank to be a failsafe. After raising reptiles I've come to be familiar with thermostats and how much they can save the day.



loach guy said:


> The freshwater+ is probably going to be strong enough for what you need. Always use a temperature controller. The $25 is the best insurance you can buy.


The freshwater + is a nice piece of hardware, but I like the configurations that I'm able to do with what I've seen with the plus PRO. I actually got out of planted aquariums right before the PRO was released and this is one of the reasons I want to get back in with nano's! Agreed with the controller 100%

=====================================

Fauna wise I'd like to keep this setup packed when it comes to fauna. Yea, I know I need to be careful with the bio load and give the animals there space, but here is what I'm looking into:

- Cherry shrimp
- Thai Micro Crabs (Limnopilos naiyanetri)
- Danio margaritatus
- Boraras brigittae
- Pygmy Cory's (Corydoras pygmaeus)

That's about it. Might consider some nerites or ottos?

Edit:

Anyone know the diameter of the 2211 and/or 2213 hosing? I'm trying to figure out what diameter inline heater and diffuser to get.


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## bereninga (Mar 18, 2006)

Tihsho said:


> Would there be any reason for me to go with a 2213 over a 2211 for a 6.5 gallon? I do get that inline devices will slow the flow, but will the inline heater and diffuser kill the flow too much on a 2211? I'm planning on going with the Hydor and a thermostat in the tank to be a failsafe. After raising reptiles I've come to be familiar with thermostats and how much they can save the day


The benefit of the 2213 is that if you ever upgrade to a larger tank you can use the 2213 on there. Otherwise, the 2211 might be enough. The 2213 flow can be reduced by the valves by the way. I use the 2213 on a 6-gallon and the flow is pretty good, and I still use a powerhead. Also I have a lot of plants. I'd rather have too much flow that can be reduced than not enough to begin with.



Tihsho said:


> Edit:
> 
> Anyone know the diameter of the 2211 and/or 2213 hosing? I'm trying to figure out what diameter inline heater and diffuser to get.


Both 2211 and 2213 have outflow diameters of 12/16mm (1/2").
(Source:
2211:
http://www.bigalspets.com/classic-canister-filter-with-media-2211.html
2213:
http://www.bigalspets.com/classic-canister-filter-with-media-2213.html)

Which thermostat do you plan on getting?


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

bereninga said:


> The benefit of the 2213 is that if you ever upgrade to a larger tank you can use the 2213 on there. Otherwise, the 2211 might be enough. The 2213 flow can be reduced by the valves by the way. I use the 2213 on a 6-gallon and the flow is pretty good, and I still use a powerhead. Also I have a lot of plants. I'd rather have too much flow that can be reduced than not enough to begin with.


Good point. I'm use to these 'larger' canisters on larger tanks so I'm concerned with blowing everything around with the output and either ruining the substrate layout or stressing inhabitants out. Do you happen to have a link to your 6 gallon? I'd like to read up on what you have done for inspiration.



bereninga said:


> Both 2211 and 2213 have outflow diameters of 12/16mm (1/2").
> (Source:
> 2211:
> Eheim Classic Canister Filter with Media - 2211
> ...


Thanks for that info! That helps a lot now I know what products to filter out. 

As for thermostat, I'm going to look into that tonight. I posted a question up about that and all the other hardware in the equipment section and I'll merge findings here. I'm thinking I might lurk on my old reef forums to see if I can find some accurate products that they use.


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## bereninga (Mar 18, 2006)

Tihsho said:


> Good point. I'm use to these 'larger' canisters on larger tanks so I'm concerned with blowing everything around with the output and either ruining the substrate layout or stressing inhabitants out. Do you happen to have a link to your 6 gallon? I'd like to read up on what you have done for inspiration.


I had a 10 gallon that was the original tank for the 2213. I got rid of that and then got the 6 gallon. I was hesitant at first about using a 2213 on the 6 gallon, but it turned out fine. I have a link in my profile, but that info is old. Here's a somewhat more recent journal (that I need to update!):
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/12-tank-journals/922809-fluval-edge-6g.html

It's a Fluval Edge, a "special" (aka pain in the butt) tank.

I'm interested in what you get for the thermostat. The Finnex Max-300 (Amazon.com : Finnex Max-300 Digital Aquarium Heater Controller : Finnex Heat Controller : Pet Supplies) might be a decent choice.


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

Oh you have an edge... I give you credit on going with it and love what you've done! I was working in the Aquarium industry when those originally came out and I liked the modern design but hated the lack of functionality and PITA management that seemed like would come with it.


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## wlevine09 (Apr 7, 2014)

Tihsho said:


> That's the dimensions for the 6.5 gal. How is the Rapid's filter? I use to run 501's on my 2 gallon cubes, but realize they are very inefficient and will not really support a larger setup. Plus they clog quickly it seems and I'm not a fan of their hoses.


I have only shrimp in mine, and it is great. I went with the lily outflow and inflow with inflow on opposite end of the tank from the out and things seem to be good. I had the round glass pipe like this one







but it cut the flow too much in my opinion and I didnt have enough surface movement so buildup accumulated quickly


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

wlevine09 said:


> I have only shrimp in mine, and it is great. I went with the lily outflow and inflow with inflow on opposite end of the tank from the out and things seem to be good. I had the round glass pipe like this one ****IMAGE REMOVED FOR QUOTE**** but it cut the flow too much in my opinion and I didnt have enough surface movement so buildup accumulated quickly


I'm planning to go lily in and outflow as well. I considered going on opposite ends, but I'm unsure. I've always done that in the past with canisters and loved it, so I might just put the inflow in one rear corner and the out flow in the other rear corner. Again, those are not set in stone.

I was considering that exact style of outflow! But you bring up a great point about surface agitation, without that I will have scum build up and that's not good. I can't even run my Eheim surface extracting pump because I'm aiming to have zero visible hardware in the tank besides lily pipes and CO2 checkers.


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## bereninga (Mar 18, 2006)

Tihsho said:


> Oh you have an edge... I give you credit on going with it and love what you've done! I was working in the Aquarium industry when those originally came out and I liked the modern design but hated the lack of functionality and PITA management that seemed like would come with it.


Thank you! Yes, the tiny hole at the top drives me nuts since it makes the tank very hard to manage. I've wanted to take the top off, but the glass top makes it nice and enclosed.


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

Does anyone make feet risers for rimless tanks for lighting? I'd like to raise up the Satellite FW + by 3" to 4" in this setup.


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## wlevine09 (Apr 7, 2014)

Tihsho said:


> I'm planning to go lily in and outflow as well. I considered going on opposite ends, but I'm unsure. I've always done that in the past with canisters and loved it, so I might just put the inflow in one rear corner and the out flow in the other rear corner. Again, those are not set in stone.
> 
> I was considering that exact style of outflow! But you bring up a great point about surface agitation, without that I will have scum build up and that's not good. I can't even run my Eheim surface extracting pump because I'm aiming to have zero visible hardware in the tank besides lily pipes and CO2 checkers.


With a tank as long as mine I opted for the regular style lily pipe for the outflow on the left and the inflow in the opposite corner on the right as you said. I think in a cube tank the round outflow is great (my roommate has it) but for the length that we have it just cuts flow too much (as it's designed for)

Bump:


Tihsho said:


> Does anyone make feet risers for rimless tanks for lighting? I'd like to raise up the Satellite FW + by 3" to 4" in this setup.


I cant comment for the Satellite, but there is a guy Fuse who is selling them for the finnex lights currently on the for sale section.


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

Which brand pipes did you go with? Are you running a pre filter on the inflow? That's the only hardware I wouldn't mind seeing as I'd like to not catch a majority of shrimplets in the filter, plus it's something I can easily pull out with the inflow pipe when I feel like having a moment with my DSLR.

Edit:

Also, did you find your tank in NJ or did you have to order it online? GF is originally from NJ so I could make a NJ trip more interesting with an LFS trip


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

As I run through my list of hardware I've come down to choosing that I'll be running a Eheim 2213, Hydor 200w inline, Current Satellite Plus PRO 24", U.P. Aqua Inline Atomizer & a Rhinox drop checker.

I'm still torn on the lily pipes to run. I've been checking out users posts on different brands, but China orders take forever, but then again domestic 'knock-offs' are not exactly cheap. Catch 22. Any strong recommendations on lily pipe brands/models, etc? 

Also, my main concern is having too much flow with the 2213. Is there a way I can throttle the flow without using the inline ball valves? I don't want to put back pressure on the system and wear out seals or an impeller. 

Another thing up for debate is substrate. I know I'll most likely be building more Osmocote tabs as I have some O-cote left as well as capsule cases, but I'm considering either using Fluval's Shrimp Stratum or S.T. International's Aqua Soil. Recommendations on either way? I don't want to use Flourite products (been there done that) or ADA (not sure why, just not interested right now.)


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

*Update:*

Ordered the tank from MarineDepot this afternoon as well as the Eheim 2213 and the Mr. Aqua Aquarium Placement Mat from Amazon. I'm excited to get this started!

I've sourced some UG locally so I plan on starting up my emersed setups again but a little differently this time. Rather than use the 15 gal or the half 10 I'm going to use small seed starter containers with the same substrate I plan to use in the tank as well as base heating from a mat to keep the temps constant for growing. I will also be using CFL's for the grow lights until I order my Satellite Plus PRO and then I'll suspend that above the 'grow station'.


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

Who ever thought options for glassware and substrates would be this hard. 

Let's start with glassware... I'm still looking for options with inline diffusers to clean up the tank, but at the same time in tank glass/ceramic diffusers are not only pretty but easy to monitor. The U.P. Aqua inline diffuser seems to have mixed reviews, but for the price I think it's worth trying. My main concerns with this product is the plastic housing either not arriving with a good factory seal or the plastic being brittle and cracking under pressure. That said, those are fairly big concerns, because leaks are never a good thing. With that concern in mind, I started to look into inline glass diffusers. Cal Aqua[1] seems to have a decent selection of glass products in general and a few inline diffusers. I'm confused by the design options for two out of the three. Two are inline diffusers with ceramic disc style diffusers that either user a 25mm disc or the nano model using a 20mm disc. I don't see too big of a difference in the disc sizes. The nano model seems to be more compact, but I don't know if that is for aesthetics or function. The normal 13mm model does have slightly more space around the diffuser which looks like it should slightly reduce flow (not really too noticeable.) The third product is an inline diffuser that's part of a lily pipe. I'm not sure it's the most efficient setup, but it's neat and is extremely compact. Anyone have experience with CAL Aqua products? 

So onto the next, substrates. I've experienced a lot of products over the years; Flourite Red, Flourite Dark, Flourite Onyx/sand, Eco Complete, ADA Amazoinia, and ADA Africana. I'm looking to try something new with a new substrate. My options at this point are either Fluval Plant and Shrimp Stratum [2], Mr. Aqua Aquarium Soil Substrate [3], S.T. International Aqua Soil [4], or Azoo Plant Grower Bed Substrate [5]. I know they are all basically made in the same place, but the products do vary a bit. The only draw back I've had from ADA is the huge ammonia kick for the first month while cycling. I'd like to avoid this because it gave me a pH flux with previous tanks that were running CO2, though this could have been due to DIY CO2. That is one thing I'd like to avoid as well as 'dusting' with particulate matter when flooding a tank that's starting with the DSM. The price break down per pound also varies. The break down per pound is as follows:

Fluval  ~$1.99 (17.6 lb bag)
Mr. Aqua ~$8.60 (~2 lb bag)
ST International ~$6.43 (4.4 lb bag)
Azoo ~$2.91 (per 12 lb bag)

****Prices quickly based off Amazon & Marine Depot****

I'm not too worried about the cost, but more so the 'performance' I'd say. I know some products break down to dust fairly quick and I'd like to avoid that, otherwise I'd go back to soil.

[1] CAL AQUA Inline Diffuser Product Page
[2] Fluval Shrimp and Plant Stratum
[3] Mr. Aqua Aquarium Soil Substrate
[4] 



[5] Azoo Plant Grower Bed Substrate


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## wlevine09 (Apr 7, 2014)

Tihsho said:


> Which brand pipes did you go with? Are you running a pre filter on the inflow? That's the only hardware I wouldn't mind seeing as I'd like to not catch a majority of shrimplets in the filter, plus it's something I can easily pull out with the inflow pipe when I feel like having a moment with my DSLR.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> Also, did you find your tank in NJ or did you have to order it online? GF is originally from NJ so I could make a NJ trip more interesting with an LFS trip


Mine were a knock-off brand from china. Took about 2 weeks to get here, but the quality is perfectly fine for my needs and I have had no issues. Best part is that I got them for $15-22 a set. Also I had to order mine online. It came packaged great and because it was over their cut-off i got free shipping which was pretty amazing.

Bump:


Tihsho said:


> Another thing up for debate is substrate. I know I'll most likely be building more Osmocote tabs as I have some O-cote left as well as capsule cases, but I'm considering either using Fluval's Shrimp Stratum or S.T. International's Aqua Soil. Recommendations on either way? I don't want to use Flourite products (been there done that) or ADA (not sure why, just not interested right now.)


I have ADA amazonia 1 in a tank I just set up and to be honest I prefer the "Brightwell Aquatics Florinvolcanit rio escuro-f" that I have in my other tank. With the ADA I have to wait forever for the ammonia leaching to stop and the grain sizes are very non-uniform. the Brigthwell product costs pretty much the same thing, but has much more uniform grains and no leaching of ammonia.


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

@wlevine09, you're saving the day! I was using a lot of brightwell's products years ago and forgot they started to offer substrates. Any idea how they hold up against the rest of the pellet style substrates? It looks like it's priced right at $40 for 15lbs or so. Do you have pics of it in your tank I could use for reference? Pellet size?


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## wlevine09 (Apr 7, 2014)

I do, but I am at work currently. When I get home I will post a picture comparing the two substrates grain sizes.


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

@wlevine09 I didn't know if you had a tank journal of the tank you were using the Brightwell substrate in. I'll keep posted, thanks!


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## wlevine09 (Apr 7, 2014)

I dont know why I didnt thnk of that. I havent been actively updating it, but the pics are there. Here is the brightwell. No pics of the ADA, but its so common im sure you've seen it. http://i.imgur.com/3Ar3wHp.jpg


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

Thanks! Just found your Tank Journal prior to you posting that. It looks great @wlevine09! I think I might just have to go with that. In comparison with other substrates, how would you rank it? Would you recommend going with the fine grade that you have, or would you bump down to the extra fine after your experiences with the size you have. Or would you mix?


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## wlevine09 (Apr 7, 2014)

@Tihsho I am very happy with it. All of my plants grew great. No perceivable difference in growth from ada and brightwell. This is my friends tank using the brightwell https://i.imgur.com/ucnQLso.jpg and this is another shot of mine during a horrific hair algae outbreak https://i.imgur.com/974wCGh.jpg The pogostemon is pink due to light burning


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

@wlevine09 what is that carpet you have? Glosso? It looks like it's doing really well. Would you say the fine grade is enough for carpets or would you step down to the extra fine?


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## Mumford (Nov 12, 2012)

I'm planning my tank out as well and I'm stuck on glassware too. I'm currently thinking cal aqua is the way to go


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

@Mumford, have you found a dealer for CAL Aqua yet? I've only mainly seen their product line. How large is the tank you're working with?


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

I'll definitely do that @Mumford. I'm actually talking to one of the manufactures of the China 'knockoffs', so that will be an alternative as they are made in the ADA facility. I'm considering ordering a few to try and a few spares to sell to make up for the import cost.


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## wlevine09 (Apr 7, 2014)

The carpet is monte Carlo. I have had great success with it. It grows pretty quickly and is very undemanding. Here is a pic after I cut some to sell to show that it rooted well in the substrate. By the time I cut it/took it out to rescape it was about twice as thick without lifting


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

@wlevine09 I don't see a pic

*Update*

Great news! Eheim 2213 and the Mr. Aqua tank pad come in this afternoon and the UPS notification from Marine Depot came in today saying the tank is expected to be here on Friday! I'm excited! I just need to settle on a substrate. But thanks to wlevine09 it seems like I might be going with Brightwell Aquatics Florinvolcanit rio escuro-f or Brightwell Aquatics Florinvolcanit rio escuro-xf. I'm torn on the substrate pellet size, but I'm either going with the fine or thinking of mixing in the extra fine to make it a more solid base for planting. I've found some sources for some plants I want so I'll probably order those soon. I've also scheduled some time to pick up some UG this weekend as well as another species of Utricularia that I wanted to try, so we will see how that goes. I plan to have my version 2 of the emersed setup done by Sunday night so prepare for pics then!


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## wlevine09 (Apr 7, 2014)

@Tihsho Sorry about that. http://i.imgur.com/Hyoom4w.jpg as you can see it pulled away a bit from the cutting, but after everything settled again I simply pushed the front but down with my tweezers and it stayed down for about 4 months worth of growth (with no trimming at all) after this picture was taken


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

Just want to post up a gripe with MarineDepot, yes they do have the cheapest prices (by a dollar usually) for their Mr. Aqua tank stock, but they don't include the tank mat unlike most other places. I contacted them about this as they have a "Price guarantee" and they claimed that since they don't carry the product as a kit, nothing could be done. I'm frustrated that they are not including the mat like say Plantedtank.com [*1*]


Footnotes:
[*1*]http://www.plantedaquarium.com/products/mr-aqua-6-5-gallon-mini-bookshelf-glass-tank-23-6-x-6-7-x-9-4?variant=4081740803


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

Just unboxed the 2213, and let me just say this thing is much smaller than I expected. Not disappointed, but more so surprised. The filter media came pre-setup in the canister so I'm considering running it as is. Would you recommend swapping any of the media out? Swap the ceramic bio media for bio balls? Add purigen? Anything?


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## bereninga (Mar 18, 2006)

Tihsho said:


> Just unboxed the 2213, and let me just say this thing is much smaller than I expected. Not disappointed, but more so surprised. The filter media came pre-setup in the canister so I'm considering running it as is. Would you recommend swapping any of the media out? Swap the ceramic bio media for bio balls? Add purigen? Anything?


I've used this filter w/ the stock stuff and haven't had any issues. I'd be interested in hearing if purigen actually makes a difference or not.


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

@bereninga how did you throttle your flow on your 2213 on the Fluval tank? I know you're not suppose to reduce flow on the intake, but only the output as it's just added head pressure which the pump can handle.


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## Mumford (Nov 12, 2012)

Tihsho said:


> @bereninga how did you throttle your flow on your 2213 on the Fluval tank? I know you're not suppose to reduce flow on the intake, but only the output as it's just added head pressure which the pump can handle.


I'm throttling my 2215 back on my 45p and it's the same deal. On the outflow just close the valve slightly until you get the flow you're looking for. Leave the intake completely open though otherwise you'll risk damaging the filter.


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

Do you throttle both valves on the output side? Or just one?


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## Mumford (Nov 12, 2012)

Tihsho said:


> Do you throttle both valves on the output side? Or just one?


I did just the top but I don't believe it'd make any difference except slow it down more if you did both


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

Didn't know if it was safer for the ball valves to throttle two say a quarter way, than throttling a single by a half.


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## Mumford (Nov 12, 2012)

Oh gotcha. Can't comment on that one.


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## bereninga (Mar 18, 2006)

Mumford said:


> I'm throttling my 2215 back on my 45p and it's the same deal. On the outflow just close the valve slightly until you get the flow you're looking for. Leave the intake completely open though otherwise you'll risk damaging the filter.


+1

I have the valve on the outflow closest to the tank probably closed a quarter of the way at most, but it's probably less than that. With a heavily planted tank, you'll be surprised how much flow you'll need.


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

Update:

This project is getting a little over complicated in my mind. While looking into inline diffusers I stumbled upon a mini inline UV sterilizer so I thought about integrating that into the system as well and have it run off a timer/controller so I can either have it run at night to assist in the fight to keep green water at bay as well as kill off any algae that might get loose and be floating in the water column that the filter picks up. 

Besides that, I'm getting a parts list together to beef up my regulator so I can have a more accurate needle valve, moisture/back feed protection for the regulator and solenoid via industrial check valves as well as a solid bubble counter as I've been reading a lot of negatives about the stock Milwaukee one.

This weekend I'm suppose to be picking up some UG from a local guy to restart my emersed tank to grow some stuff out to move to the 6.5 once that's running. I'm also considering getting some other plants ordered online to have them in for next week to put in the emersed. 

We will see how all of this goes.

Bump:


bereninga said:


> +1
> 
> I have the valve on the outflow closest to the tank probably closed a quarter of the way at most, but it's probably less than that. With a heavily planted tank, you'll be surprised how much flow you'll need.


Well I want to have the flow manageable until the the plants get established and no substrate is exposed. I'm still going through a DSM to start, but not everything will be in and established.


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## Mumford (Nov 12, 2012)

Tihsho said:


> Update:
> 
> This project is getting a little over complicated in my mind. While looking into inline diffusers I stumbled upon a mini inline UV sterilizer so I thought about integrating that into the system as well and have it run off a timer/controller so I can either have it run at night to assist in the fight to keep green water at bay as well as kill off any algae that might get loose and be floating in the water column that the filter picks up.
> 
> ...


You should be ok to crank it down and then loosen the ball valve as you add more plants/need more flow.

Do you have a Milwaukee regulator?


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

I have a Milwaukee and an Azoo regulator. I was going to run with the Milwaukee originally because of the built in bubble counter, but since I'm finding a lot of general recommendations to upgrade needle valves and switch bubble counters it really doesn't matter which one I start with.


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## wlevine09 (Apr 7, 2014)

bereninga said:


> I've used this filter w/ the stock stuff and haven't had any issues. I'd be interested in hearing if purigen actually makes a difference or not.


In my experience, purigen definitely makes a difference. I'm not even really concerned about the nitrogen uptake capabilities, but more so the water polishing. I dont know how it works, but purigen has made my tank water look like air on occasions with how clear it gets.


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

Went to a LFS last night to see if I could find some more spider wood. I have a nice piece that will fit in the tank, but it's just not long enough. I have a 6" x 16" open section in the tank that I'd like a piece of spider wood in, or at lease a chunk of that floor space taken up. I did however pick up some Fluval Plant/Shrimp Stratum for an experiment. I'm picking up some little seed starters this weekend to grow out some Utricularia species besides the Utricularia Gramnifolia that I'm also picking up. I figured I'd see how it grows in Fluval's Stratum vs. the Brightwell Aquatics stuff once I get that in.

Anyone know of a place I can order spiderwood online? Preferably from a vendor who I can give size limitations to to see what they have?


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## Rossfett (Jul 16, 2011)

Tihsho said:


> Went to a LFS last night to see if I could find some more spider wood. I have a nice piece that will fit in the tank, but it's just not long enough. I have a 6" x 16" open section in the tank that I'd like a piece of spider wood in, or at lease a chunk of that floor space taken up. I did however pick up some Fluval Plant/Shrimp Stratum for an experiment. I'm picking up some little seed starters this weekend to grow out some Utricularia species besides the Utricularia Gramnifolia that I'm also picking up. I figured I'd see how it grows in Fluval's Stratum vs. the Brightwell Aquatics stuff once I get that in.
> 
> Anyone know of a place I can order spiderwood online? Preferably from a vendor who I can give size limitations to to see what they have?


Opinion:
If you haven't opened the bag yet I'd return the fluval stratum. Save yourself some stress. Especially if you have any flow. I've had nothing but bad experiences with the stratum. I tried it three times. It turns to silt really fast. You have to tear down the whole tank and rinse everything. If you want some reasonable priced substrate, you could also look into controsoil. I believe you can get it on amazon. 
If you can't find any UG, shoot me a PM.


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

Rossfett said:


> Opinion:
> If you haven't opened the bag yet I'd return the fluval stratum. Save yourself some stress. Especially if you have any flow. I've had nothing but bad experiences with the stratum. I tried it three times. It turns to silt really fast. You have to tear down the whole tank and rinse everything. If you want some reasonable priced substrate, you could also look into controsoil. I believe you can get it on amazon.
> If you can't find any UG, shoot me a PM.


Oh, let me clarify @Rossfett, the Stratum is for the emersed setup. I'm in no way, shape or form dumping it into the 6.5. The plan is to grow out the UG I'm picking up and go from there. I just wanted to see if it was a cheap alternative when it came to aquatic soil for grow outs. Since it's fall I don't have any bags of MGOPS sitting around and I don't feel like grabbing a large back for small use. Plus it was $7 for a 4.4lb bag. 

Controsoil eh? I'll look into that as an alternate as well for the emersed setup. As long as I don't have weird algae/mold growth from any of the soils that are not submersed I'll try and keep up with anything. So far MGOPS had been the best to grow stuff out in, but I had to be careful about it leaching out organics to the water which caused green slime in the stagnant emersed water.


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## Rossfett (Jul 16, 2011)

Tihsho said:


> Oh, let me clarify @*Rossfett*, the Stratum is for the emersed setup. I'm in no way, shape or form dumping it into the 6.5. The plan is to grow out the UG I'm picking up and go from there. I just wanted to see if it was a cheap alternative when it came to aquatic soil for grow outs. Since it's fall I don't have any bags of MGOPS sitting around and I don't feel like grabbing a large back for small use. Plus it was $7 for a 4.4lb bag.
> 
> Controsoil eh? I'll look into that as an alternate as well for the emersed setup. As long as I don't have weird algae/mold growth from any of the soils that are not submersed I'll try and keep up with anything. So far MGOPS had been the best to grow stuff out in, but I had to be careful about it leaching out organics to the water which caused green slime in the stagnant emersed water.


OOPs, I misunderstood. Sorry. 
If this helps. I grew my carpet out with pots and cheap hydroponic pellets. I used a strong air pump to pump air through a bottle filled water and a second tube leading to the grow tank. On the opposite end I had an exit tube. This kept the humidity very high, but enough airflow to battle mold. I cut the UG at up into small pieces and then when it started to grow I would trim the UG and take the trimmings and put them in a new pot. I used a 24 watt grow LED on for 12 hours a day. I had very little water build up, but the humidity stayed at about 85-90%. Sorry for the crude drawing.


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

Crude drawing my [censored]! Thanks for the diagram! I've run through emersed setups before, but I've always fought BGA. Mold luckily I've never encountered, but we will see this time. Lighting will be 4 CFL's as I'm using a 1/2 10 gallon (half in height) to grow everything out yet again. Light cycle will be ~12 hours if not a little more, and I might gang off my CO2 to put some CO2 in the 'atmosphere' of the grow out tank. Either that or I'm going to mist with diluted Excel I have left over.

*Update:*

And this is more of a teaser to me than you guys but...










It came in without cracks! I'm going to test fill it this weekend to make sure the silicon will hold water, but besides that I'm fairly impressed with this little tank. As you can see I've placed the spider wood I had from a previous project in there and well... It's lonely and needs more wood friends in there. I'm still trying to hunt down vendors with spider wood or local people who have a bin of old wood I can pick through.

Also, I will be moving those monitors away that are behind the tank. Don't fret, they won't be in the way!


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## bereninga (Mar 18, 2006)

Nice! Looks bigger than 6.5 gallons already.


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

*Update:*

Well I did some roaming around to different places with the girlfriend this weekend on the hunt for wood. Nothing was found yet, so it looks like a hike is in order for me to get what I want. I did happen to grab a few things that were planned and unplanned though.

First thing's first. Unplanned pickup... Well kinda, more of an impulse buy thanks to @wastewater's great Tillarium thread. I plan to incorporate this as well as a few other species above the waters surface in this tank, but for now the driftwood is doing it's side job of holding this plant and two of its pups.










So the planned stuff now. UG! Found a local source and went over to pick some up. Ended up picking up some other Utricularia species as well (terrestrial species, sorry guys) that I'm looking forward to having as well as a nice pitcher plant to kick start what got me into plants all those years ago. Right now I'm running an experiment with the UG. I have some planted in some sandy mixed MGOPS, some in a soil slurry, and some in Fluval Stratum. I wonder who will grow the best? I'm also going to get some going in Brightwell Aquatic's substrate once I order it, as it is the substrate choice for the 6.5


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

So while at lunch I spent some time discussing this project with a coworker. Him and I generally talk cars, tuning, and how to optimize automation in systems and then he said "I don't do fish tanks because they are too much work. If they were automated, then I'm in!" I went through some of the automated setups with him that exist and even forwarded him the iAqua thread on here and it looks like he wants to run through a home brewed version of it with Raspberry Pi. At this point it's a spit ball of an idea, but it's got the engineer gears in my mind going. 

Years ago when the Mr. Aqua's first came out and I was in the reef world, a member of reefcentral built an acrylic behind tank sump. I'm going to look into this more as I'd like a hidden place to tap in an ATO, sensors, dosers, auto water change, and emergency aeration. The kicker of this is I want it slim and unobtrusive to the setup. I know right know my Eheim 2213 is going to slow down with an inline heater and CO2 diffuser so this 'behind tank sump' will give extra flow without adding clutter to the tank. The only other thing I was thinking of was tapping into the outflow of the Eheim and adding servo controlled ball valves and sensor ports, but I think that's going to be a lot of wasted time in programming. Again, just spitballing here.


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

*Update <10/5/2015>:*

Well tonight's been an expensive night. Finally had a chance to sit down and price hunt. That said, I ordered the following:

1 - Hydor 200W inline (1/2")
2 - Finnex HC-810M Thermostat
3 - Brightwell Aquatics Rio Escuro-XF Extra Fine
4 - x2 Purigen Pillows
5 - Lily Pipe Inflow/Outflow
6 - Check valves

Initially I was going to order some plants and some wood (hoping it would show up to be the ideal piece for the project!) but I saw shipping and realized I could spend that money on hardware and still save some cash.

Once I get wood I plan on converting this to a journal. I figure right now this is more of a spitball thread of going back and fourth as well as being a tease to not only you guys but myself.


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

<hr>


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## Mumford (Nov 12, 2012)

Which lily pipes did you get?


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

@Mumford, I ordered ADA clones. I'll post more about them when I get them in.


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## wlevine09 (Apr 7, 2014)

Tihsho said:


> I ordered ADA clones. I'll post more about them when I get them in.


Did you end up going with the spin type or the lily? or something different all together?


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

I went for the Lily. From what I was reading, and I think you were one of the people who said it, the spin type didn't provide enough flow. I might go through and order a Poppy next to compare... Or just have more parts to make MTS easier...


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

*Update <10/6/2015>:*

Well this week has been a busy one at that. Orders in for more stuff, research into automation of this endeavor of a tank, and well more on the ever so hard hunt of finding Spider Wood locally... Again a trip is in order when I can make it to one of the stores I remember having it, all while carrying my trusty tape measure and my scratch sheet of dimensions as reference. But that's a story for the day it happens, off to today's progress.

So the girlfriend is having family come down for the weekend and asked if we could take a trip to Petsmart on our date night to grab some things for their dog... Did she really have to ask? I think she has learned today that we can just go... As she's in the dog isle "ooing" and "ahhing" over the endless festive dog toys on sale, as well as counting how many squeakers each one has to determine how much she wants to have her roommates suffer while she babysits the dog, I meander off to the fish section to see what hopeless in-vitro plants they have hanging on the shelves. To my surprise they have a decent selection and some in decent condition at bat. A pack of Cyperus Helferi was calling my name, but I opted against it even though it's condition was phenomenal! Some very small Bacopa Caroliniana, Alternanthera Reineckii, and various Crypts actually looked great as well but they were not on my list... Well the AR is, but if it's not a 'Mini' I had to move on. I dig through to find what looks like was an attempt at stashing plants behind some Crypts. Jackpot! Got a nice in-vitro Pogostemon Helferi and Hygrophila Pinnatifida, mind you they were pricey and I now have to get them from an in-vitro emersed form to a rooted form... This is fairly easy for the P. Helferi as I've done it before with great results. The H. Pinnatifida, that's a whole other story as this will be my first.

We get our stuff done and I get home about an hour ago and start digging into the packs to clean them and get them prepped to plant in the emersed pots of Stratum.

*Hygrophila Pinnatifida*









I spent a lot of time with this clump. There was a lot of die off that needed to be cleaned as well as the nasty nutrient/hydro gel. All in all it didn't turn out two bad. I got 2 2.5" pots full, here is one of them:










Now onto the more tedious Helferi as I needed to cut back the clumps to stems to wash then plant. Here is the clump from the pack

*Pogostemon Helferi*









After trimming it back I had a pile of waste but a ton of stems. I have a feeling I'll be getting rid of a lot of it again locally. I forgot to take a shot of it with my DSLR prior to placing them in the tank, so here is a last minute attempt of equality:










Is it just me, or is it looking a bit crowded in the grow out already?










Now to start the planned DSM all I need are the following to show up/I need to find:

1. Brightwell Aquatics Substrate *(Ordered and pending delivery)*
2. Littorella Uuniflora *(need to source some... donations?)*
3. Hygrophila Lancea *(need to source some... donations?)*
4. Alternanthera Reineckii 'Mini' *(need to source some... donations?)*
5. Spider Wood (Just show up already as the ideal pieces of wood so I can just get this hardscape going!)


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## Ugly Genius (Sep 27, 2003)

Tihsho, great journal. I like how careful and methodical you're being. It shows us that this is a hobby that requires planning and patience. Lots of patience.

You seem to have a good eye for photography, so when the tank is built, I expect some good shots.

I'm also impressed that you know all the Latin names for plants. (I don't know any of them. If you asked me for the full name of glosso, I'd say "_Glosso stigmata_ [as in Jesus] _Elated_ [as in happy]". The Happy Jesus Crucifixion Scars Carpet Plant.)

Keep the journal going.

UG


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

@Ugly Genius, I really appreciate the kind words. I like to keep things step by step when it comes to threads of stuff I do, not only so people can learn from what I'm doing in both the good and bad events but so I can also look back and remember what happened when. As for patience, well it's something I've come to learn over the years. My last attempt back into the hobby was short lived due to my eagerness to start and well it bit me. 

As for the photography, I'm a novice at best. I purchased a Canon 7D a year or so back for automotive photography and general wildlife/scenery which I'm hoping to get more in the latter soon. As of recent I picked up a Canon EOS-M which I actually used today with a EF-S lense adapter and a 40mm prime lens. If there are enough photo geeks in here I'll spend more time on the effort of artsy shots in what I share when I have the time.

In the case of the Latin names, it's a habit I picked up from old hobbyists. When I was a 'young buck' working in the industry, while still an enthusiast, a handful of years back and around a lot of 'old heads' in the hobby through local clubs and other events, I found myself lost in the sea of common names that Wholesalers would call one thing and the early internet called something else. The 'old heads' had it right and called it by the Latin name to reduce confusion. Yeah, it confused those who didn't know the name, but when you ask they would spout the list of common names and say "those, pick one and that's what we are talking about"

I plan to convert this to an actual Journal soon enough, but want to wait for the hardscape to be in place. Based on a comment you made in your Journal I went to what seemed to be your LFS store site and was about to order a handful of things, including wood for the hardscape, but I never realized how harsh shipping was... I've imported things from Japan and China by pallets for other hobbies and feel like I still paid less in shipping. I'm tempted to just fly out for a weekend to swing by AFA to pick things out and then fly back with them in my carry-on haha.


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## amphirion (Nov 13, 2008)

Lol. I thought glosso was derived from the word "tongues"


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

Not so much of an update today, but more so a comment on a few things. Some of you may have noticed I've put up a thread on a 'sump' idea that's going through my head. I'll get into it more later but feel free to check it out and comment:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/9-equipment/939186-hob-sump.html#post8407562

Also, I was worried post putting the new pots in the emersed tank when I remembered I use to use a nano fogger in the tanks to convert the growth from emersed to a limbo phase between emersed and aquatic. I was concerned the heat mat at 75 degrees plus 4 CFL's would provide too much heat and the humidity in the tank wouldn't be enough to keep them moist. To be safe I turned off the CFL fixture above the new plants and I get home to happy wet plants. I'll be ordering another ultrasonic mister or two to keep that process going.


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## bereninga (Mar 18, 2006)

What kind of mister do you use?

Also, speaking of cameras, I should use mine to take photos instead of my iPhone. The 40mm is a nice lens. So easy to bring around!


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

Previously I used some China brand (basically one that they use to use for ponds prior to ExoTerra rebranding it.) The disc needed to be replaced and I couldn't find one specific to the device so I chucked it. I'll be ordering another China model off of Amazon in the next week or so. Right now I'm misting and using an external reptile humidifier for the time being.

==================================================

Going to see what a chain store has on the way home tonight in terms of in-vitro plants. I have the weekend to myself as the girlfriends going out of town, so I might just drive around to see what stores have what in terms of wood. Maybe I'll come home to some happy boxes waiting to get opened? I'll keep you all posted. I'm contemplating some ideas when it comes to automation, but realize that I might need to order a spare Mr. Aqua for R&D purposes. I'll definitely be going though some of my old reef gear to see what I plan to keep and what I can sell. I know I have 3 Coralife HQI fixtures I can cleanup and sell to make room and put some extra funding into this project 

==================================================


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

*Update <10/8/2015>:*

So the large chain store lead out to be a Petco (I couldn't remember what was on the way home) and lets just say plant hopes were a pipe dream. That said, I did spend 20 minutes eyeing up betta's and realizing I had no space for the Plakat I had in one hand, the King I was eyeing, and a Plakat Double Tail I had in my other hand, so I placed them down and like a little kid in a candy store with empty pockets left disappointed. Note, left the betta's because MTS is a thing and I've had an intervention with myself about it years ago. It was messy and dramatic and... Well, lets leave it at that.

I get home and I see boxes in front of the garage... Did someone send me something or did UPS deliver to the wrong address again and just be a tease? I didn't get a notification of delivery... What could they be. But as soon as I opened the box I was surprised. They were worth the price, but at the same time I wasn't sure if they were the look I was going for... So I take them up to the tank and get them ready for a pic and well, if you who get this following reference... We should be friends... All I hear in my mind is a robot voice yelling:

"DANGER WILL ROBINSON!!! DANGER!!!"

Oh right, you don't know what I'm talking about. How about you take a gander?










I like that I finally have Lily Pipes in my life, but I'm not sure they 'fit' the tank. They protrude too far forward. I'll run them for a bit while I find alternatives that hug the glass more. But those might be a 'pipe dream' of their own <insert rimshot> :icon_roll 

But on an unrelated note, I wish I played with a different ISO setting on the DSLR or bring up the lighting just a weeeee bit. I like the dramatic look, but after the shot I noticed something I loved about it, how the Tillandsia roots look like they are flowing with the Lily Pipe output! Completely unintentional, but I love it. Ok, camera nerding will cease in 3... 2... 1... Lies...

Spent a bit of time with the M, and extension tube and the trusty 40mm to play around in the emersed tank.










The U. Warburgii that I picked up on Sunday has settled in well and is sending out new leaflets daily!










And well, who isn't an emersed P. Helferi fan...












Me! Grow out already!

Until next time.


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## bereninga (Mar 18, 2006)

Love the shots! The air plant shot is very moody. It really does look like it's already under water. These photos make me want to step up my tank photos game. The iPhone camera and focal length are so uninspiring. Are you thinking of a betta once your tank is set up?


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## Mumford (Nov 12, 2012)

I think the pipes look good? I got some no name ones as well and I'm looking forward to setting them up next week!


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## wlevine09 (Apr 7, 2014)

Two things, first, look out when you get your substrate. I ordered a bag of the F recently and they sent a bag that was labeled F but contained XF. I know you ordered XF so it shouldnt be a problem unless they swapped our two bags haha. Also with the Lily Pipe Protruding too far into the tank, you can try putting something between the outside glass and the pipe higher up. It does angle the pipe from | to \ slightly, but it moves the part inside the tank closer to the wall. I had a spare filter hose suction cup that fit for me.


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## amphirion (Nov 13, 2008)

So I see you like utrics. I'm a big fan of them myself. Keep in mind that while most terrestrial species live in boggy conditions, they can only deal with periodical flooding and will need air to breathe--maybe insane levels of CO2 might be able to mitigate that. Best candidates for aquarium use aside from UG is biloba. Are you using Utrics for aquatic purposes or just to grow the pretty flowers?


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

@bereninga Thanks! I have been looking for more reasons to use my DSLR as of late, so this is a great thing to practice on since it's dynamic and I can use some macro features and play with ISO's. Long exposure stuff will happen as soon as I replace my bulb trigger. As for the Betta, probably not. They are great looking fish, but I'm aiming for a range of invert and a school of CPD's. Because I'm looking at adding to the total volume of water in this tank, I'll be over stocking for sure.

@Mumford I'm definitely torn on the pipes. Who said these were the no name ones? Not me  They actually have a brand name, they are just not ADA branded.

@wlevine09 I'll definitely keep an eye out on the substrate. It's suppose to arrive today with a bunch of other goodies, thanks for the heads up! As for the protrusion I want the pipes to be as vertical as possible as to not have a cattywampus looking set of filter pipes. I'm mainly concerned with the gap of 'dead space' behind the Lily output. I'm working on adding flow with my addition of hidden equipment, so I can put flow through that dead space, but it's just an eye sore of sorts having the Lily pipes that far into the tank. What suction cup did you do with?

@amphirion, I'm fairly familiar with their living environments. Unlike UG and one other 'grass like' species there are not many that are fully aquatic. There are the species that are stem like that are primarily aquatic, but lets be honest, they are ugly. U. Biloba eh? Sounds (and looks, per a quick Google search) like another species I'll be hunting for. I'm keeping Utrics for multiple reasons. The first is for research purposes to compare growth in a fixed environment so I can propogate them later in a slightly larger scale. The second reason is the flowers, they make nice accent pieces in terraria. The third is for incorporation into aquaria, but I won't go in how as I'd like to unveil it post success.


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## wlevine09 (Apr 7, 2014)

It was one that I had that came with my tom aquariums filter. I'm more concerned with the look of the inside of the tank, and it's in my bedroom not a room guests frequently visit so as long as the inside looks nice im alright with it.


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

I feel it's a whole balance thing, if it looks good inside the tank, but makes the tank seem like it's in shambles on the exterior I'm hesitant. If it looks like junk in the tank, but looks great outside the tank, well then it's just junk. I'm trying to find the balance of each. I'm not displaying this tank in the house, it's on my desk which is next to my bed. Once R&D is done and a new house happens (hopefully next year!) I'll move this tank to a display with a *correct* sump and let it do its thing.

===============================================================

Also, how does this thread have that many views? I hope it's not too disappointing as there is a ton of views, but very little comments in relation to the views haha.


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

Like normal, I felt like pulling out the DSLR tonight. Not the EOS-M (b-roll) camera I was using for the other pics, but my 7D. So what was my motivation to pull it out tonight? Well I noticed some pink and got excited... Hrm, depending on the context you read that you may just have been offended enough to stop reading... Well your loss. Here we go!

Again, saw some pink that I thought I saw yesterday, but wasn't sure. All I have to say is that it wasn't there a week ago...

Do you see it?









No? Need closer? Here!









Guess I can say the Till loves the Satellite +. Wonder how it will react to the E-Series when I hop on that 

I feel it's time as well for a Camera plug since we have some photo nerds on here. I can't say enough times how I'm pleased with my backup camera. I'm so pleased I use it as a primary depending on what I'm doing! It's basically a mirrorless version of my 7D and I love it. Oh right, details. Someone wants details right? What am I yammering on about, well the Canon EOS-M. No not the M2 which was released overseas or the gorgeous and perfect M3 that dropped as of recent, but the old and horribly reviewed EOS-M. Why do I say horrible reviews? Well, lets be honest. With the first iteration of firmware it was junk. The first revision had issues with the auto focus and it was god awful slow. On top of that there is no viewfinder since this is a first gen mirrorless camera, so everything is live through a liveview screen. Why does this suck? Well because of reflection. Try using this in bright daylight... Forget it. Why do I love it then and feel it's worth this plug on a non camera site? Well for these reasons:

1 - It's a mirrorless Canon 7D Mark I
2 - Since it's mirrorless it's small, and because it's small it's light!
3 - It uses SD cards over compact flash!
4 - Canon made an OEM optional adapter to mount EF & EF-S lenses on it 
5 - Because Magic Lantern and the new firmware made this a workhorse! 
6 - It costs nothing compared to a used Canon 7D

So lets go through some of those points. First it's small, rather than me explain look at it:








(Left to Right: Body, 18-55mm EF-M lens, EF-M to EF/EF-S mount converter)

I mean with the EF-M lens on it, it's still small...









And well, I can do stuff like this when I'm bored and have another lens dialed in on the 7D. Sorry, no L lens porn but here is some overcompensation? 









I like this little guy. He holds up to what I throw at it and was worth the dirt cheap price I paid for it. If you want a DSLR, but don't want to invest in a body get one of these. Your lens options are great! And you get to learn the basics with a touch screen.

Well I threw all of that in there in the hopes of cheering myself up. I'm pretty bummed as I was hoping to have more pics of tank related stuff... Well the place I ordered the substrate, Hydor heater, and Finnex Thermostat from royally f'd up. They sent out the product on time, but not only did it not show it was addressed to another person with the same last name as me. Some how when I signed up for an account with this place it mixed up my name with someone else's, I even overlooked when it said "<name> your products have shipped!" I checked my account info and the billing was correct. The address was correct, but the shipping name was wrong... Lets just say I had some words with said vendor's support and had to fight for next day delivery (which ships tomorrow... hopefully because of Federal Holiday BS on Monday...) I also had to explain how opening mail/packages addressed to another persons name was an offense and they need to fix their automated shipping. </rant>


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

*Update <10/10/2015>:*

The title of today's discussion is PROGRESS!

I'm happy to say that a trip to a LFS turned into a drive day. I put aside my original plans for the day and went to another store in the state that generally has everything, House of Tropical's or us MD fish people call it H.O.T.

I remember the last time I was there that they had spiderwood, but not too much. Today was my lucky day, they had a bit left. I ended up leaving with a large piece and a small piece since the selection was thin. When I got home the medium piece I cut in three places to make one smaller medium piece as well as two smalls. After getting the pieces cut I decided to play with the hardscape. This is what I came up with...










The hardscape made me dislike the Lily Pipes I got more. I plan on switching them up for sure later on. But I felt like I couldn't get a good feel on arranging the hardscape without substrate... Well if the vendor didn't mess up, I'd have substrate to play with... Wait a minute! I've found a use for the Fluval Stratum! So I pulled out the glass, threw in the substrate and went back to town...










I'm pleased! As long as the substrate comes in this week I think I'll be ready to start the DSM, well part of it. The wood in the middle is the three small pieces. It creates a 'U' segregation in the tank so I can split up foreground plants in hopes of keeping them separate. I'm thinking of UG on the left foreground, possibly Glossostigma Elatinoides or Elatine Hydropiper in the middle with a perimeter of Pogotemon Helferi (Downoi), and the right side is still up for debate.

Thoughts on the hardscape? Any recommendations to move stuff?

Also, picked up another in-vitro pack that was chock full of growth:

*Staurogyne Repens:*









One of the three pots it filled:









I'm running out of emersed space


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## amphirion (Nov 13, 2008)

very jealous of the camera, but more so the lenses. wonderful eye candy.

now to the scape...
i think your scape might look more natural if you rotated the largest piece so that the top of that piece is laying down to the side of the floor.
like in the attachment.

then you can take the piece on the far right and put it next to this one for a larger more intricate piece.

just my two cents. if you're set on what you want to do, carry on.


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

@amphirion, you're right! The only issue I have with that move is that it will no longer be protruding out of the water surface. I need it, or something to do so in order to give the Till a home


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## amphirion (Nov 13, 2008)

ah... gotcha gotcha gotcha.


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## Ugly Genius (Sep 27, 2003)

So your wait is almost over. Just the substrate and you're off!

The pieces look very nice.

As I don't know what your ultimate plan for what plants to use is, I'm only commenting on the current placement of the driftwood. So here goes. Once plants grow in, the hardscape tends to get swallowed up quickly. Glosso, UG, HG, et cetera will all but make that center driftwood pieces disappear. All we may end up seeing is what looks like a stick jutting out of the ground; without the context of the rest of those pieces of driftwood, it may end up looking like you simply stabbed a few pieces of wood into the substrate.
Also, the left-handed piece seems to be too far left of the focal point.
To me the current layout is following iwagumi (rock) principles of layout, and by so doing, you're sacrificing the dramatic tension that driftwood affords.

Again, I say all this not knowing what your ultimate plans are. With proper planting, what you've got can turn out stellar. I'm commenting only on the naked layout.


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

Ugly Genius said:


> So your wait is almost over. Just the substrate and you're off!


Not exactly as I still need to find some plants that I want to add to the DSM. Specifically Ranunculus Inundatus & Littorella Uniflora. Besides that I need to decide what I'm going to throw in the center as a carpet. 



Ugly Genius said:


> The pieces look very nice.


Thanks!



Ugly Genius said:


> As I don't know what your ultimate plan for what plants to use is, I'm only commenting on the current placement of the driftwood. So here goes. Once plants grow in, the hardscape tends to get swallowed up quickly. Glosso, UG, HG, et cetera will all but make that center driftwood pieces disappear. All we may end up seeing is what looks like a stick jutting out of the ground; without the context of the rest of those pieces of driftwood, it may end up looking like you simply stabbed a few pieces of wood into the substrate.
> Also, the left-handed piece seems to be too far left of the focal point.
> To me the current layout is following iwagumi (rock) principles of layout, and by so doing, you're sacrificing the dramatic tension that driftwood affords.


Maybe I'll go with some Marsilea Minuta or Marsilea Hirsuta instead since it grows more compact and doesn't grow in layers like Glosso does. I don't mind a partial submersion of the wood by the plants, I'd actually welcome the grown in look, but obviously that's a big point to make as if it takes over then the wood is lost in the scape. The left hand piece was put there strategically as I'm most likely adding a Mame overflow to have a rear sump for my automation project. The wood is spaced just enough to hopefully fit the overflow. This might actually hold off the DSM as I'd like to get the wood in the right placement before starting the DSM. It's funny you mention the layout follows the Iwaguimi layout. I honestly never intend to follow any text book layout, but I guess it unintentionally went that route. If I could find the right stones I would love to raise the left piece of wood and have a mini version of what you're doing in your Mini-M.



Ugly Genius said:


> Again, I say all this not knowing what your ultimate plans are. With proper planting, what you've got can turn out stellar. I'm commenting only on the naked layout.


I agree, it's hard to determine this. I really wish I had more selections of plants locally. That, or get over my aversion to Paypal (got screwed by them years ago) and just but plants of the FS section.


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## bereninga (Mar 18, 2006)

I commend your patience on this project. I agree w/ your sentiments on the lily pipes. The outflow could be distracting right now, but that's probably because there's not much else in the tank. Once there are other things in the tank, the glass will blend in more. I also think that there's more attention drawn to it because the tallest driftwood is right next to it.

I'm not master at layouts, but here are things I would do if I were you:

1. Possibly see how it looks if you switch the left and right pieces. Like have the largest piece on the right instead of the left. Kind of like in photography, the rule of thirds thing. But you stated that you're not the rules kind of guy, so up to you! Doesn't hurt to try. hehe
2. I agree that the driftwood may get swallowed up by the foreground. A couple ways to fix this would be a) maybe use UG in the middle instead and/or b) if you create a slight slope w/ a higher background, the laid wood will be more visible than if the substrate were flat.

Anyway, obviously and ultimately, do whatever makes you happy and try different layouts before deciding on one. I wish I had done that.


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## Mumford (Nov 12, 2012)

I think you need to get you substrate in there to mess with the driftwood properly. That will give you much more freedom to try new things


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## Rossfett (Jul 16, 2011)

Just poking my head in to see how things are going. Just some advice, I'd avoid Ranunculus Inundatus in a tank that size. I had some in my 12 long, and some of the leaves have gotten a couple inches across. I had to move it to my 28 cube, where it bullied it's way into being the mid ground plant. Once it adjusts as well, it's like marisella minuta. You'll get a node a day, and your tank will get over run without constant diligence. Have you thought about maybe hydrocotyle Japan? You can physically retard it, and it's easy to trim. Other plants that do well in small spaces are Cabomba Belem Red, which can be trained into a carpet. One of my favorite small leafed stems, that I've successfully used in nano tanks is Sphaerocaryum Malaccense. Which filter are you using again?


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

bereninga said:


> I commend your patience on this project. I agree w/ your sentiments on the lily pipes. The outflow could be distracting right now, but that's probably because there's not much else in the tank. Once there are other things in the tank, the glass will blend in more. I also think that there's more attention drawn to it because the tallest driftwood is right next to it.
> 
> I'm not master at layouts, but here are things I would do if I were you:
> 
> ...


Thanks! Patience is the hardest part for this. I'm use to diving in head first and whining to myself about how I suck and should have done it better. That's why when this officially becomes a Journal, I'll title it "Overkill"

You have a point on swapping the left and right pieces of wood. I'm feeling there will be a tier of sorts when it comes down to the substrate. The reason I wanted the left piece where it was was to hide the Mame overflow and to keep all of the glassware on the left hand side. I REALLY need to get the over flow in before settling on the hardscape and starting the DSM. When I get time tonight I'll move stuff around and post up pics. 



Mumford said:


> I think you need to get you substrate in there to mess with the driftwood properly. That will give you much more freedom to try new things


Agreed with the substrate. If the vendor would send me stuff when they said they would :angryfire:angryfire:angryfire:angryfire:angryfire But I'll rant about that below... Also, If you look at some of the pics, you'll see I tried to use the Fluval Stratum to sooth that hardscape setup itch 



Rossfett said:


> Just poking my head in to see how things are going. Just some advice, I'd avoid Ranunculus Inundatus in a tank that size. I had some in my 12 long, and some of the leaves have gotten a couple inches across. I had to move it to my 28 cube, where it bullied it's way into being the mid ground plant. Once it adjusts as well, it's like marisella minuta. You'll get a node a day, and your tank will get over run without constant diligence. Have you thought about maybe hydrocotyle Japan? You can physically retard it, and it's easy to trim. Other plants that do well in small spaces are Cabomba Belem Red, which can be trained into a carpet. One of my favorite small leafed stems, that I've successfully used in nano tanks is Sphaerocaryum Malaccense. Which filter are you using again?


 @Rossfett, thanks for your concerns with the addition of Ranunculus Inundatus. I had some in an 8" cube and it did wonders at breaking up the man made attempt of a scape. It made it more natural looking, being the sole reason I want to use it again. If you're having problems with it, send me some 

As for Cabomba Belem Red, it just looks too weird for me... If I were to do a red carpet, I'd go with something like Caloglossa ср. Beccarii, that is if I could find it. Hydrocotyle Japan is a great looking plant, but in my experience is a weed as all get out. Just add water and it explodes and fills up the tank/container in a week. Once I get the hardscape settled though... We will see... 

In terms of the filter, the main source of biological and mechanical filtration will be from an Eheim 2213, but there will be a small pseudo sump working along with it for volumetric purposes as well as a source to hide other hardware goodies  I'll definitely have a sponge/sock setup in the sump, but that's about it.

*<rant>*
Yet again I have to contact the vendor who I bought the substrate from online... Not only did they mess up with the original recipients name the package didn't show. I contact them on Friday, they tell me they will ship another package and it will be bumped to UPS 1 Day priority. Ok, that leads me to think it will get shipped on Sat and arrive Sunday! Little did I know I was wrong... Contact them on Sunday when I get shipping info but no box shows to find out they "don't have a delivery contract for Sunday, so the box will arrive Monday. Guaranteed." While I'm out doing my oil change on my car I hear the UPS truck drive in. YAY!!! Finally my stuff is here! Nope... Just filters I ordered for my HVAC... So what the hell? I ask the UPS driver if he could check a shipping number for me to see what the status of my package is. He runs the shipping number and first tells me "Call the company, the tracking info shows it has not left their shipping department." I'm more than frustrated now... :angryfire:angryfire:angryfire I call them back up and they give me a bunch of bull saying that they don't ship on weekends period... I let them have it at this point. I get a partial refund and a "store credit" and they say the package is shipping today and should arrive on Tuesday for sure... I'm not sure what to think of this big chain store. They claim they can give me 1 day priority shipping for their mistake, but they don't have this contract or that contract... Let's just say I'm not ordering from them again!
*</rant>*


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## Mumford (Nov 12, 2012)

What substrate did you order?


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## wlevine09 (Apr 7, 2014)

I'm sorry to hear about your misfortune with that vendor. :-\


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## Rossfett (Jul 16, 2011)

I read about the sump idea, which also got my brain going. The Mame overflow is now on my list. It WILL be used in one of my tanks sometime in the future. 
Have you thought about a reducer and a smaller outlet pipe? TNA makes a decent 8/12mm poppy pipe. A 2213 will still give you massive circulation with that size tank. I use a 2211 on a 7.5 and it has way more power than necessary. 

If you feeling motivated, you could make a rig using computer cooling tubes, I use primochilll. All you need is a heat gun, salt, and some curved objects. They also make sizes that fit the 12/16mm tubing perfectly.


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

Mumford said:


> What substrate did you order?


Brightwell Aquatics FlorinVolcanit Extra Fine. I'm not sure of the colors name, but the dark one of the two.



wlevine09 said:


> I'm sorry to hear about your misfortune with that vendor. :-\


Well have our one experience and this is hopefully mt one and only with this company. 



Rossfett said:


> I read about the sump idea, which also got my brain going. The Mame overflow is now on my list. It WILL be used in one of my tanks sometime in the future.
> Have you thought about a reducer and a smaller outlet pipe? TNA makes a decent 8/12mm poppy pipe. A 2213 will still give you massive circulation with that size tank. I use a 2211 on a 7.5 and it has way more power than necessary.
> 
> If you feeling motivated, you could make a rig using computer cooling tubes, I use primochilll. All you need is a heat gun, salt, and some curved objects. They also make sizes that fit the 12/16mm tubing perfectly.


I've been looking at a ton of the TNA stuff as that's the brand of pipes I have. Same manufacturing location and spec of the ADA stuff, just not branding from what I'm reading. I'm considering going with one of the 'mini' pipes they offer, but I'm not a fan of the outlets on them. If they were a open pipe with no flair I'd order them, but they are compressed at the tip for a 'wide' flow which I think would be a firehose from the 2213. I plan on dialing back the valves on the 2213 to say reduce the flow by 30-40%? Remember I'm planning on running an inline 200W heater (Hydor) and an inline diffuser as well which should slow the flow. Depending on how much space I have left I might throw in a Purigen 'reactor' or a UV filter to even more assist with flow reduction as well as optimize the tank. Speaking of UV filters I know I have either a Tetra pond or a Coralife somewhere... I'd like to get the UV automated with the tank to kick on during the light cycle to kill/reduce loose particles of algae as well as to reduce the chance of anything bad spreading through the tank. Never know these days with fish, sadly 

As for the rigid tubing idea, I'll have to ax that. Been there done that with gaming rigs years back and don't feel like playing with acrylic for aquariums. They scratch, warp, become ugly and hard to clean, etc etc so I'll pass. 

But onto what I promised before, pics of an alternative layout:

New layout (not a fan really, but try to sell me on it):









Old layout (I'm a fan because of the symmetry of the branches reaching in and up and where it would give me placement of the terrestrial Tillsandia):









Vote!

I figure I'd throw this out there. I'm on the hunt for hardware, so if you guys see any deals online let me know on the following stuff:

1 - Dosing Pumps <pending, talking to a user on here>
2 - EcoExotic E-Series 24" looking for 2 units
3 - EcoExotic Simple OneTouch LED Controller
4 - Mame Overflow
5 - 'Mini' Lily Pipes
6 - Glass inline diffuser 
7 - Inline UV

Let's just say I'm by far overdoing this project.


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## Mumford (Nov 12, 2012)

Tihsho said:


> Brightwell Aquatics FlorinVolcanit Extra Fine. I'm not sure of the colors name, but the dark one of the two.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You're getting 2 e-series lights for a 6.5 gallon??

Are you willing to pay more for the lily pipes or no?

Cal Aqua stuff at greenleafaquariums.com have nice small pipes and inline diffusers. Their glass is quite nice.


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

Mumford said:


> You're getting 2 e-series lights for a 6.5 gallon??
> 
> Are you willing to pay more for the lily pipes or no?
> 
> Cal Aqua stuff at greenleafaquariums.com have nice small pipes and inline diffusers. Their glass is quite nice.



The reason I'm thinking of two E-Series is because I'll have terrestrial growth and would like to have the light spread. I guess I could start out with one... Obviously with more light, there would be more CO2 and more dosing.

As for the lily pipes, sure. This is my first venture into Lily Pipes and I figured the first set I ordered were just to feel out if they will work. Plus for the price I paid, I'm not too upset they didn't work out.

Cal Aqua stuff is great! It's on the top of my list for inline diffusers, but for the price I might experiment with something else first and then do a compare contrast.


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## wlevine09 (Apr 7, 2014)

Tihsho said:


> Cal Aqua stuff is great! It's on the top of my list for inline diffusers, but for the price I might experiment with something else first and then do a compare contrast.


So I know the lily pipes werent exactly what you were looking for, but here are these for your consideration

Free shipping aquarium inline glass CO2 atomizer diffuser 12/16mm on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group

AQUARIUM INLINE GLASS CO2 ATOMIZER DIFFUSER SYSTEM FOR 16/22MM HOSE on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group


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## bereninga (Mar 18, 2006)

I agree that the big piece on the left does look better when facing that way. When it's flipped though as in layout 2, I thought that the pieces would also be flipped horizontally. Pretty much like a mirror image of the original layout (hopefully that makes sense). The big piece would be a nice place to put a focal plant.

Btw, those inline diffusers from Alibaba look pretty good @wlevine09.


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## wlevine09 (Apr 7, 2014)

@bereninga My friend and I made a "large" purchase from alibaba rather than aliexpress and he got one for $15 I decided against it and went with the type that are all glass, but hang over the tank like this







of course as soon as his came and I saw how great it was I immediately wanted one haha.


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

wlevine09 said:


> So I know the lily pipes werent exactly what you were looking for, but here are these for your consideration
> 
> <Link Removed>
> 
> <Link Removed>


Those are nice. I had been talking to an exporter, but to make it worthwhile I'd need to buy in bulk to make up for the shipping with those vendors. In this case it's free shipping... I'm very tempted...



bereninga said:


> I agree that the big piece on the left does look better when facing that way. When it's flipped though as in layout 2, I thought that the pieces would also be flipped horizontally. Pretty much like a mirror image of the original layout (hopefully that makes sense). The big piece would be a nice place to put a focal plant.
> 
> Btw, those inline diffusers from Alibaba look pretty good @wlevine09.


It's hard to flip in the manner you speak due to the branches on the wood. The piece that originally started on the right touches the front and rear glass by a smidge, so the way I have it is the most appealing way. The only other ways I can have it is 3 other rotations of 90 degrees. The 'roots' of the piece I like facing forward and I feel they are a loss at other angles.


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## wlevine09 (Apr 7, 2014)

Tihsho said:


> Those are nice. I had been talking to an exporter, but to make it worthwhile I'd need to buy in bulk to make up for the shipping with those vendors. In this case it's free shipping... I'm very tempted...
> .


Yeah, that's why I prefer aliexpress over alibaba. The prices are slightly higher (a few dollars at most usually) but its free shipping which makes up for it.


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

*Update <10/13/2015>:*

*Dun dun dunnnnnnnnnnnn*

No more of this:









And a bunch of this when I got home:









So I came home to a bunch of stuff waiting. What stuff? This stuff!









Un-named place finally got me the stuff that was suppose to arrive Friday. 'Bout damn time! And Amazon got me a ultrasonic fogger in (bottom left of pic.) 

Speaking of that cheap thing, it takes a minute to warm up but it was worth the $10 for the grow out. If I setup another grow out I'll buy another. 

Lets see the grow out:









"Hey Tihsho, I thought you said you got a fogger in..." Wait for it...









"That's weak bro..." Wait for it...









Be careful, you might get a hook through your chest if you're rooting around in there.

I'm hooking the fogger up to a timer. Not all of the plants in there like being submersed so I'll kick it off 3 times a day for 20 minutes or so.

Till later!


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

Spent some of my down time reworking this automation idea for the tank. Laid out a general idea of expected power, what initial sensors I want where, etc etc. The draft is so large I can't screen shot it in detail... So I guess I'll just have to give you a general shot and expose it more and more as the hardware mashes up to scaleable pics.

Teaser:


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## wlevine09 (Apr 7, 2014)

So aside from the fact that the diagram you have makes my head spin, I'm glad you got all of your things. Wouldn't you know it, but I also ordered from that vendor and they screwed up my order as well. First they sent me a bag of the substrate marked as F but the contents were the XF size. not really their fault as the bag they shipped was correct. I decide to send it back and have them make sure the new bag is correct. Well, they sent out the new bag to the wrong address. I got the shipping confirmation from UPS and it had the wrong address..like..way wrong. So I contact them. They recall the shipment from UPS and then now have just dispatched another bag to the correct address.. I hope since the tracking isnt up yet. I've gotten things shipped from china quicker :-(. I'm just glad this bag was meant to be extra just to have around because if I was waiting this long to start like you had to I would have been fuming as well.


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

Sorry to hear you had the same issues. I'm going to write to Brightwell asking about their poor web support for their products and see what I can do about getting it carried at some LFS's. 

I'm torn on a few things. Because I mainly want to focus on the plants I feel I might want to not add fauna... But lets be honest, it's a bit boring and the water volume of this setup is a waste without it. After having a talk with a friend we discussed overstocking Overkill (the name of the tank has now stuck.) What do we mean overstock? Well the thoughts were either one of the two:

Choice 1:
1 - x8 CPD's
2 - x6 Pygmy Cory's
3 - Initial dozen shrimp
4 - x5 Thai Micro crabs
5 - x4 Otto's

Choice 2:
1 - x12 Boraras Brigittae
2 - x6 Pygmy Cory's
3 - x5 Thai Micro crabs
4 - x4 Otto's

I don't think it's too much bioload as the system will be running around 10-12 gallons once it's complete. My main concern would be space for the schooling fish to swim.

Thoughts?


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## Mumford (Nov 12, 2012)

I'm torn between those 2 schooling fish as well. I'm leaning to the Boraras Brigittae due to the color of them standing out and they're less shy. Tough though!


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## Ugly Genius (Sep 27, 2003)

I like my tanks without any fauna save a crew of MTS, but I really do like CPDs. They're quite pretty.


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

@Mumford, for years I wanted both species but I had huge tanks that they would get lost in. In the cubes I had before, they were too small in volume to keep anything in really. Now's the time to choose! I'm fairly sure my scape and plants will determine which one I go with.
@Ugly Genius, I did that in my last pair of tanks and I feel like I should mix it up with this iteration. I'm still unsure though.


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

I've not done much with the tank over the past few days. Between being swamped with work and a gf who is freaking out about college stuff, well... I get side tracked. 

I did however start dosing some ferts I had left over in the emersed nursery and I think I might have initiated a melt on a pot of P. Helferi due to excel. Dammit excel! 

Tonights plans are as follows once I get home:

1 - Test fill tank (a little late, I know)
2 - Add some substrate to the tank post fill/dried tank and take some more pics of layouts with the correct substrate.
3 - Order plants 
4 - Maybe order light?
5 - Pray one purchase I made today was a good one and that it gets here soon...

I mainly need to figure out the Marsilea thing before I order plants tonight. I want to make sure that if I order plants they are what I want in the long run.


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## bk. (Sep 27, 2014)

If you're still looking for deals on the e series, Drs foster and smith are having 25% off right now


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

Thanks for the heads up. Now to find another vendor who has a sale (you can guess why I'm saying that...)


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

*Update <10/16/2015>:*

Something happened when I got home as I started to check off things on the list that I had put up today...

Lets review the list again:
*1* - Test fill tank (a little late, I know) *- This is chump. Should take 5 seconds!*
*2* - Add some substrate to the tank post fill/dried tank and take some more pics of layouts with the correct substrate. *- Ugh, so you mean I have to dry the tank post draining it? Ok...*
*3* - Order plants *- Yay!!!*
*4* - Maybe order light? *- Yay!!!*
*5* - Pray one purchase I made today was a good one and that it gets here soon... *- Yay... *:help:

_Proof of some of the checklist items:_

Fill up the tank to test for leaks (let it sit for 5 hours and soaked the Tills in it for their weekly soak) *Check!*:









Test out the hardscape with the new substrate. *Check!*:









Ended up bailing on ordering plants... I need to get the UG going more to put into the tank... Sorry guys, this would have been a fun post if I had a list of stuff  :thumbsdow

Maybe order a light eh? We will see soon if I jumped on this or not. I can't provide too much excitement or too much disappointment in one post. *Sideways check?*

You can bet #5 is happening in more ways than one... You'll see why soon enough! *Check!*:

Now the checklist is done for the night, here are some artsy shots of some Tills taking their weekly bath!


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## bk. (Sep 27, 2014)

Tihsho said:


> Thanks for the heads up. Now to find another vendor who has a sale (you can guess why I'm saying that...)



I'm actually not sure why lol. Send me a PM if there's something I should know


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

Mini Update? 

I wouldn't call this anything significant, but I figured it would be a good note for myself in later reference as well as anyone who cares. I went through and dug around the sheds for some 2.5 gallons. It looks like I got rid of most of them over the years and have a ton of 5.5's, but 2.5's are what I want due to space. Why? Well the wire rack that's holding the half 10 has an empty shelf that can fit 3 of them comfortably! I cleaned the one out and found a spare sheet of glass and moved over the Nepenthes I had in the half 10 as well as the two pots of 'dwarf' sphagnum moss I was growing. They have their own home which I can regulate temps etc etc. Oh, also it's currently being lit by an old Coralife mini power compact which I'll need to swap out sooner rather than later as it gets crazy hot. Any one have any pros/cons on the beams work LED fixtures? They seem cheap and would be great alternative to CF bulbs that I'm using on the half 10. 

I noticed that the melt from an Excel snafu is real. I'll post pics on it later.

Also, the girlfriend mentioned today how she's tired of going to 'pet stores' on weekends... So I have to save those trips to days I 'need' to go, not just because it's convenient when it's down the street from her... Oh poop 

=======

*EDIT*

Pics as promised!

New Nepenthes and Dwarf Sphagnum tank. I might just lay the Sphagnum out on the base and mist more regularly. Iunno, thoughts? Never really propagated Sphagnum till now. Also, this gives me more room for more Nepenthes and other trap species! Sundews and Flytraps anyone? 









Excel Snafu Carnage... Please look away if you're qweasy due to plant nastiness... 


















Overall everything is happy besides the over Excel'd pots!


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## Ugly Genius (Sep 27, 2003)

I have no clue about what you are doing so my question may come across a dense, but why are you dosing Excel in an emersed setup? It can't be for carbon (or can it?), so I'm assuming as a sort of algaecide.


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

@Ugly Genius, no problem I don't mind explaining it. 

So as we know plants (terrestrial and aquatic) go through and process carbon and in turn produce O2 with a minor off gas of CO2. In an aquatic environment we introduce it either through doses of carbon in a liquid form or saturate the water via gas. In the terrestrial world plants get it through the gas phase. Most people do not dose CO2 via gas, honestly not a lot of commercial growers do either. I learned a trick years ago from an orchid enthusiast who was propagating Vanilla of all things. "If you want to get your plants to thrive, leave them alone. If you want them to look like they came out of photoshop, keep them in a room with little ventilation and place a pound of dry ice in a bucket of water per every 1600 cubic feet once a week." Thought it was odd but I saw his results and they were phenomenal. The addition of CO2 in terrestrial plants works wonders like it does for us in the aquaria. In this odd phase of a plant going form a terrestrial to submersed or vice versa I've found the addition of a carbon source has been vital to not only sustainable growth, but in the transition from one phase to another. That said, no I'm not saying I can get the aquatic form of the plant thriving in the emeresed setup, but I can get it growing in a way once I move a cutting from emersed to submerged I don't have significant die back.

Prior to the fogger I use to mist the enclosure twice a day with a Excel/water solution. The Excel was so light it didn't burn the plants or cause melt. Previously I was dosing the water when I had a fogger so it would take care of this throughout the day. I had a snafu this round because I was dosing with a pipette and trying to hit the disc of the fogger to see if it would turn the liquid Excel into a suspended particle of Excel to spread to the plants... My phone goes off and starts to vibrate its way to a hardwood floor, so as I dive to catch it so it doesn't shatter I spray the contents of the pipette all over a few plants. Sadly one large pot of P. Helferi got the majority of it and not the open water. I sprayed a bit on the H. Pinnatifida and just noticed I hit a couple S. Repens plants tonight.


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## bereninga (Mar 18, 2006)

That sucks about the Excel. Hopefully the plants recover soon! 

How do you dose ferts on an emersed setup? 

As for the fauna, I've never seen either fish in person. But with those numbers, I'd prefer to have the larger school. They'll have room depending on the height of your plants. 

If I were you, I'd do the trips to the store while the gf is studying or busy with something else. That way she'll get less annoyed. I wish the store was down my street! I'd go before or after work. Haha


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## Mumford (Nov 12, 2012)

are you keeping those wood blocks on your tank?


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

*bereninga*, I dose ferts through the water column mainly. Luckily I don't live with the gf as of yet so I can make trips without her during the week when I don't see her or before/after I go to see her. 

*Mumford*, those blocks are a temporary solution for raising the lights. I need a permanent solution which isn't currently offered. I know one user on here makes standoffs, but they don't work well for the design of the Planted +, or any non clamp lights for that matter.

*Update <10/18/2015>:*

So I don't have to worry about one package anymore, it showed up and lets just say I got really excited... If only the girlfriend knew that's why I was late to a thing this morning... Oh well...

Onto the pictures that matter:









The glass is PERFECT!



























Let's just say I like the final result, a lot.


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## bereninga (Mar 18, 2006)

Dude that looks sick! Hahaha Can't wait to see it in action.


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

Thanks *bereninga*! I'm excited too. 

I need to find more 2.5 gallons and de-rim one of them for the sump, so that will be a chore. 

Also, I need to find the right pump that's rated to a 80 GPH max. Right now I'm torn on either an Eheim Compact 300 and Sicce Mi Mouse

Edit:

Well I broke some glass... Wait! Wait! Don't panic! It was cheap glass! I cracked a 2.5 while taking off the trim. Then I knocked the light which is suspended by some wood and broke the intake on the TNA glass pieces I got cheap... Well F, now I have to get some better glass for the Eheim regardless...


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## Ugly Genius (Sep 27, 2003)

Dude, I have no idea what that stuff is, but it's looks cool as heck! I think you're making a sump of some sort and that is off the chain. This journal just got dialed up to eleven!


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

Thanks *UG*! I'm working to put a 2.5 gallon sump behind the tank. I'm in the process of figuring out whether to go with a Sicce pump or an Eheim pump for the return. The sump will house a series of sensor probes, dosing lines for macros, micros and odds & end ferts as well as an ATO.


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

Mini Update? 

Ordered some more glass stuff... What? You'll just have to wait and see  Well I'll just say I got some other pipes for the Eheim that I believe will be a better fit, here's to hoping. If not I have the next set to replace them lined up in my bookmarks queue to order. As for the other stuff... Gotta wait... Or maybe I should make it pay to play? I like that idea... Doubt anyone wants to Paypal me for teaser info, haha. 

Might be ordering plants from a few places this week!


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

So I'd like to throw out a thanks to a secret user on here who just made my night by getting me rolling with more plants. I had some carts lined up on some sites, but I figure they will get their chance soon enough. Once these plants come in from said user, well off to the emersed setup most of them will go, others will be going to a partially submersed setup just to keep them happy. I may have overstepped my comfort zone with some of these plants, but hey I wanted them and I want to learn about them.

I'll most likely be putting out another order for plants tomorrow. Once all of these plants are in I'm starting my prep for the dry start :biggrin:

Two things I DO need to figure out though before plants arrive.

1 - What background will I be going with on the Mr. Aqua? I've never been a fan of painting the back of tanks, but then again it's the most clean look... Other options? Black or white would be my choices unless I hear otherwise.

2 - What should I do to add more ferts to the soil? Will the Brightwell stuff be enough for the UG carpet to start as well as other plants that generally go through a dry start? Do I need to pop in O+ tabs?


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## Julie7778 (Apr 21, 2015)

Love the hard Scape! Can't wait to see it when it's all planted.


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

Thanks @Julie7778! I'm excited as well. The 6.5 gallon floor print is nice, I wish it was 12" wide rather than the 6" and change wide, but that's all part of the challenge!


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## wlevine09 (Apr 7, 2014)

Tihsho said:


> Two things I DO need to figure out though before plants arrive.
> 
> 1 - What background will I be going with on the Mr. Aqua? I've never been a fan of painting the back of tanks, but then again it's the most clean look... Other options? Black or white would be my choices unless I hear otherwise.
> 
> 2 - What should I do to add more ferts to the soil? Will the Brightwell stuff be enough for the UG carpet to start as well as other plants that generally go through a dry start? Do I need to pop in O+ tabs?


In my experience with the brightwell you do not need to add ferts. I've grown glosso, ug, and monte carlo in it and all carpeted with no issues. As for the background, I am partial to black as it makes the greens and reds of the plants pop as well as allowing fish/shrimp to stand out. Plus fish tend to get brighter colors with black than white. For what to use to coat it I use plasti-dip. It is great as it sprays on very easily and if you change your mine it peels off very easily rather than having to scrape it off. Look up plati-dip removal to see what I mean.


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

I know plastidip WELL from people doing horrible things in the automotive world with it... I was actually thinking about using it, but I didn't feel like tearing down the tank to spray it on. I wonder if I could paint it on well. Pics of the dip on your tank by chance?


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

*Update <10/20/2015>:*

Well, with a plant order on its way I needed to make some extra space. Cleared out the stuff I was storing behind the first 2.5 gallons I started to setup two more. 



















I plan on adding a bit of water to the middle tank to get it humid. The far right tank I plan on filling and supporting submersed growth and injecting CO2 with the diffuser I currently have in there. I plan on swapping CO2 tanks this Friday and getting the regulator running, even though I know I'll need to swap needle valves. 

The ultrasonic fogger is doing it's thing and I need to order another one for one of the 2.5's


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

Mini Update

I'm not making this the full update till later tonight as I'm at work. But I will say this until tonights stream of pics are posted...

I called my boss telling him I'd be late into work/working from home for a bit because I had to take care of things... well waiting for boxes to show up or having to pick boxes up at post office, and oddly enough more than one box... Sadly I'm still waiting on one box and won't be updating this tonight till late so keep posted!

I'll just leave three words here:

Plants
Glass
LEDs


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

*<Update 10/22/2015>:*

So where to start... Oh I guess I'll use the teaser list above!

Plants:

Bought some plants through @Bartohog and he does not disappoint! Rather than a list of plants, here is a list with some photos...

First thing is first *'Blood Vomit' (Trithuria Sp.)* 


















*Riccardia Chamedryfolia 'Mini Pellia'*









*Marsilea Crenata*









*Caloglossa Cр. Beccarii*









*Rotala 'Mini Butterfly'*









*Rotala Mexicana 'Goais'*









Dug around the basement to find a light fixture I had retrofitted two grow light T-5's into years back. Picked up some new bulbs for it on the way home and got the stems submersed setup going for a grow out.










Swapping out CO2 cylinders tomorrow with my day off work so this tank will be the first to get injection.

While picking that box of plants up at my small town's Post Office there was another package in my name... I wasn't expecting anything, let alone had a tracking number saying something was showing up...

But....










One of the two things I've been most stoked about showed, and I'm fairly impressed for it being a 'knock off'










Just waiting on the 13mm pipes that were back ordered to come my way now.

Ended up having to leave for work since a call came in... But good news was this was waiting for me...









Can't see it? Let me make it brighter for you...









Lots of stuff came in and I'm still behind. I'm hoping to get some more plants... Oh if only someone felt like shipping me plants


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## bereninga (Mar 18, 2006)

This is like Christmas time for you! So much glass. What light is that?


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## Mumford (Nov 12, 2012)

why is it that when I see people with new plants i suddenly want new plants? lol. what type of a style are you thinking about doing in this?


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

@bereninga, the light is an EcoXotic E-Series. I'm contemplating getting another and looking into suspension options for the light. I like the bent conduit options, but my issue is where/how to mount the conduit behind the tank... This is on a desk which has no back, so I can't mount it like others have.
@Mumford, then get new plants  The exact feeling you have is why I ordered what I did from Bartohog! As for style... Iunno to be honest. I don't really follow most of the styles that are out there by Amano or Tom Barr. Is stems in the rear and a carpet in the front a style? If so something like that is what I have in my mind.

I swapped out my CO2 today and priced out a couple more cylinders. I love going to Roberts Oxygen as they have welding equipment. Talked to the guy behind the counter, yet again, about a Miller Tig... Oh the things I could make and the progress I could make on my car project... Regardless, he said when I'm ready to come back for a Tig he'd throw in two 10lb CO2 tanks and a tank for the Tig... Such a tease he is!

I get home and rig up the Azoo regulator I have, as the Milwukee I plan on adding a new needle valve to for the permanent reg. Use some old CO2 line I had, throw in a check valve, attache the nano diffuser I had from an old setup and I'm off! Wait... How am I going to regulate the solenoid? Well F... I don't have a timer... Well F... I promised the ladyfriend I'd meet up with her for lunch and it's getting close... I decided to unplug the solenoid and deal until I could get home. While at lunch she asked me how the tanks were going and I told her I needed a part. I figured that on my way home I'd grab it, nope she pulls up to Lowes so I can get the timer... What a doll 

Lets just say the CO2 for that 2.5 grow out is rolling and I'm pleased! If only I had some 4dkh solution I'd drop in a drop checker... I tried tinkering with buffers earlier to create a 4dkh solution, but either my test kit's off of my buffers are way to strong.

Until next time!

P.S. I know I can't fit one in the tank and it's going to run hot... But I really wish I could put an Axolotl in the 6.5... Oh well, next setup maybe?


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## amphirion (Nov 13, 2008)

dang those are some nice plants. i love blood vomit, i just dont know how to use it in a planted tank schematic. might need a crap load of them in order to come up with something nice--they dont seem to look as nice if set individually.


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

@amphirion, thanks! I plan on getting a lot more plants. Definitely a variation of stems, some ferns, some buces and this and that. I don't plan to add much moss to the tank in the long run. I'm considering putting the Mini Pellia in another tank and putting only a bit of the Caloglossa Cр. Beccarii in the tank on a rock or something that I can move around/remove easily. Just need to find some contacts around the country to buy/trade plants with once the emersed farm kicks off.


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## Mumford (Nov 12, 2012)

@Tihsho I just started another order yesterday 

Not sure exactly what that'd be called lol. How do you plan to use your blood vomits?


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

@Mumford, glad to hear you ordered plants  As for the Trithuria Sp.(because lets be honest, the common name is weird...) I'm planning on propogating them first. Once I have a handful more I'm going to plant a 'hedge' of sorts in the mid-ground. I'd like to find more Trithura or get some Erio Shiga to mix it up or a 'small' spikey Erio of sorts and move it out once it's to big.


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## Mumford (Nov 12, 2012)

Tihsho said:


> @Mumford, glad to hear you ordered plants  As for the Trithuria Sp.(because lets be honest, the common name is weird...) I'm planning on propogating them first. Once I have a handful more I'm going to plant a 'hedge' of sorts in the mid-ground. I'd like to find more Trithura or get some Erio Shiga to mix it up or a 'small' spikey Erio of sorts and move it out once it's to big.


That was my basic game plan. I had some bylxa in my mid ground but I think they'll eventually get to big for the look I'm planning out so I'm hoping these will take it's place. We'll see:wink2:


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

I'm contemplating whether I want to get some Blyxa just for the sake of growing in one of the grow outs... I know it's going to get wayyy too big for the 6.5 dimensions and dwarf all of the other inhabitants.


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

After a weekend away with the misses, helping her study for her first grad class midterm that she's taking as an undergrad, I felt the need to stop by a LFS and decompress. We walked around, though she wished it was any other LFS, and I saw something I wanted! Limnophila Aromatica. We split up to find someone to assist us since the owner and manager who I know well were not in... We got stuck with this kid who has yet to hit puberty... He tells me he doesn't know the price, but thinks it's it's either $17.99 or $19.99 a stem. He has a smirk on his face that tells me he's trying to pull a quick one. I politely decline his sought effort to get me in his overpriced ruse. 

Thanks to a member on here I believe I should be expecting some plants in the next day or so. We will see how things go and I'll throw out a shoutout on arrival day. 

That said, if you're following this thread and have any of the following please PM me!

1 - Limnophila Aromatica (I believe Bartohog has a unidentified 'mini' sp. which I need to look into)
2 - Rotala H'Ra
3 - Litorella Uniflora (my in-vitro source was unable to restock!)
4 - Ranunculus Innandatus
5 - UG (my current emersed setup isn't producing enough for a drystart)
6 - Dwarf/Mini Needle Leaf Java Fern
7 - 'Red' Nymphaea Sp.
8 - Ludwigia Senegalensis
9 - Ludwigia Inclinata "Curly"
10 - Ammania 'Bonsai' / True Rotala Indica
11 - Bolbitis 'Baby Leaf'


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

*<Update 10/26/2015>:*

Welp, there is a reason I like this forum and communicating with not only locals, but people with the same interest in plants. Why? Because this...

First shout out goes to @TheDrake. PM'd him on one of his RAOK's and well... Lets just say I'm surprised he didn't send me a sink with the plants. He said he was going to load up the box and he definitely did!

*NLJF (Non mini as you can see)*









*Lilaeopsis Sp. (Maybe he will chime in so I don't have to PM him on the exact species :hihi*









*Fissidens Sp. (Maybe he will chime in so I don't have to PM him on the exact species :hihi*









*Subwassertang is what he said he was shipping, but it looks more like Monosolenium Tenerum*









*And finally... All the floaters! A mix of RRF (Phyllanthus Fluitans), DWL (Pistia Stratiotes), and Frogbit (Limnobium Laevigatum)*









Second shout out is to a member who is local to me @s3nescence who I met up with tonight to trade some O-cote+ tabs for some of his trimmings he had. 

*Sagittaria Subulata* 









*A species of Ludwigia he was unsure of. Waiting for it to color up/flower. Thinking L. Repens?*









*Blyxa Japonica*









*And finally some DWL*









Some of you are probably thinking "How in the hell is he planning on putting all if any of those in the 6.5?" You're thinking is right, I'm most likely not. The NLJF I was hoping would be smaller, so I'll either have to sink it with a rock, start a new setup with it, or RAOK it. Since it's a bit of a hassle to find locally I plan on holding onto it and propagating it. I'll most likely have to setup another tank due to this plants size... Probably a full 10 gallon or 20 gallon. Maybe I could compromise with my 15 gallon? We will see. Lilaeopsis was just an additional thing thrown in which I plan on propagating in the emersed tank and trading/RAOKing some later. Fissidens though... That I'm trying to think of a way to incorporate it in the tank with it being subtle and not a focal piece. Monosolenium Tenerum 'Pellia' was something I just enjoyed growing, just like Sub/susswassertang and wanted some for the emersed tank. Floaters. These I wanted because two have been a challenge to me over the years. Frogbit and RRF's I never seem to be able to keep up with. Luckily I have enough of each to try stuff out. The Frogbit came in a bit rough, but it was in an express box without insulation, so it was to be expected. That said, no complaints. I just hope I can get some to live! RRF's just seem to melt for me. This time I've put them in their own 2.5 gallon with some ventalation and placed some in different tanks to test their growth. The DWL is something I've not really had. I've kept normal water lettuce in my ponds, so this should be chump. Sagittaria Subulata was just a throw in. Originally I was suppose to meet with *s3nescence* a while back for DWL, but a conflict of schedule pushed it off till today. I hope to grow it out submersed and convert it to emersed. The Ludwigia species I have in a pot submersed so I can have it grow out for identification. This MIGHT be making its way into the 6.5. Blyxa Japonica I was just thinking about today. Fate brought me a piece in tonight's trade and I had to move it to the emersed setup because I could not for the life of me get it stuck in the Brightwell Aquatics substrate without it floating out... Overall I'd say tonight's planting haul is intense. I hope to be able to grow everything out and provide plants to members on here in the future. Also, I'm trying to coax the girlfriend into her own tank, so some of these plants are helping that...

Here are some parting shots of the 2.5's


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

I'm sorry for a lack of an update yesterday to those who have been following. I caught a cold over the weekend and it went into full effect. As you can see I tend to type a bunch and I couldn't draft up a response that I felt was worthy of being an update. I figure posting _"woo hoo I can't see straight due to these generic brand cold meds"_ would have been more of an entertaining post. I'm not sure if I'm getting old and my body reacts differently to cold meds, or they have changed what they put in them. But boxes of pills that say those things are non drowsy are lying through their teeth. Woozy work day with an hour drive each way was not exactly fun...

Yesterday I swapped the position of the CO2 diffuser and the Eheim surface skimmer. Now the diffuser is on the front glass and the Eheim skimmer is blowing towards the front glass. I believe this has reduced the flow in the tank, so I might turn up the flow as I've turned it all the way down originally.

You can't really tell by the last couple pics, but the Rotalla 'Mini Butterfly' and Rotalla Mexicana 'Goais' have taken off. Last night the Java fern was in full pearl and the stems of Ludwigia were still kicking out bubbles from where I cut it the previous day to make it multiple stems. I've been doing some hypothetical planting and can't find a good place for the 'Goais' any more. I'm thinking it's going to be more on the right hand side, but I don't know where just yet. I still need to get Littorella Uniflora and some more UG and then I can be that much closer to the dry start. I plan on taping up the rear of the tank this weekend and getting some plastidip (the little tub of it) and painting it on the rear. Since the tank has the hardscape the way I want it I don't want to get the aerosol and have to tear the tank down just to take it outside to spray it.


If any of you have any of the following, let me know!

1 - Microsorum Pteropus (Mini Needle Leaf OR Windelov)
2 - Hygrophila Polysperma 'Rosanervig'
3 - Bolbitis Heudelotii 'Mini'
4 - Ludwigia Peruensis 
5 - Ludwigia Arcuata
6 - Ludwigia Repens
7 - Ludwigia Glandulosa
8 - Ludwigia Inclinata


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

I'm liking this steady pace of orders. Plan things out right and they can be done at the right pace. Just went through and ordered some ferts so I'll be expecting these in a few days:

1 - Potassium Nitrate (KNO3)
2 - Mono Potassium Phosphate (KH2PO4) 
3 - Potassium Sulfate (K2SO4) 
4 - Plantex CSM + B 
5 - Iron Chelate
6 - Magnesium Sulfate (MGSO4)
7 - Magnesium Nitrate Mg(NO3)2

This will be my first jump into EI. Figured I'd start testing EI in the 2.5 submersed grow out. The more stems I can produce, the more I can plant day 1 of flood day! That said, I just see now how far away I am from it because I have yet to start my dry start... I'm going to hunt around for some more UG and Litorella Uniflora. Once I've got those I'm a go for the dry start.


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

Additional update:

Went ahead and jumped on GLA's site yet again today... This time I ordered some of their in-vitro plants that I've been looking for. I wonder what will be showing up?


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## bereninga (Mar 18, 2006)

Tihsho said:


> Additional update:
> 
> Went ahead and jumped on GLA's site yet again today... This time I ordered some of their in-vitro plants that I've been looking for. I wonder what will be showing up?


Collectoritis? Heheh I don't know how you plan to fit these plants in your tank.  The cool thing is that you'll have a lot of plant options to choose from for your tank, so that's good!



Tihsho said:


> I'm contemplating whether I want to get some Blyxa just for the sake of growing in one of the grow outs... I know it's going to get wayyy too big for the 6.5 dimensions and dwarf all of the other inhabitants.


Btw, blyxa won't be too big. It's def more of a background plant for a nano though.

That Java Fern is HUGE. I actually just got some bolbitis heudelotii, but had to trim off all of the leaves because it was just too huge.

I tried fissidens a few years ago, but it just never grew or did anything. It eventually didn't last. I've always wanted to grow it though because I think it's one of the most interesting plants out there. I'm really a fan of plants w/ very fine leaves.

Feel better, buddy! Drink lots of liquids and look at your tank a lot. Supposedly it's good for you.


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

bereninga said:


> Collectoritis? Heheh I don't know how you plan to fit these plants in your tank.  The cool thing is that you'll have a lot of plant options to choose from for your tank, so that's good!


Something like that. I actually enjoy propagating more than aquascaping. Producing plants and getting plants to flower is more interesting to me honestly. I don't plan on using a lot of my recent pickups in the tank due to the limited space. That said, another project is in the works.



bereninga said:


> That Java Fern is HUGE. I actually just got some bolbitis heudelotii, but had to trim off all of the leaves because it was just too huge.


I plan to get a decent amount of Bolbitis 'mini leaf' for the 6.5




bereninga said:


> I tried fissidens a few years ago, but it just never grew or did anything. It eventually didn't last. I've always wanted to grow it though because I think it's one of the most interesting plants out there. I'm really a fan of plants w/ very fine leaves.
> 
> Feel better, buddy! Drink lots of liquids and look at your tank a lot. Supposedly it's good for you.


I still need to find the species info of the Fissidens that I have. 

I'm trying my best to get better. I've been taking cold meds left and right.

Here's some updated shots to pass the time:


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

Just got my shipping confirmation for plants coming in tomorrow, yay another unboxing day! Ferts look like they will be showing up either this weekend or next week.


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## bereninga (Mar 18, 2006)

Is that the same downoi that melted before? If so, it's looking good now. That blood vomit looks good too (sounds weird saying that)!


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

The pot that melted is still looking sad... It's got some green growth on it, but it's not exactly pretty to look at. The Trithuria look GREAT! Next order from @Bartohog will definitely have more in them.


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

*<Update 10/30/2015>*

So today was another fun unwrapping when I got home. Busted open my GLA box to have these waiting for me.










Lets look a little closer!

*Rotalla "Bonsai" AKA True Rotala Indica*









*Ranunculus Inundatus*









*Utricularia Gramnifolia* <this looks weird emersed in in-vitro>









*Alternanthera Reineckii 'Mini'*









I forgot who reminded me of PlastiDip... But that happened as well... I know I said I was going to paint it on, but the rattle can was cheaper and I had painters tape at home as well as some paper to prevent a mess.










Flipped 180 and taped the sides and top off:









BAM! Done. Not bad if I say so myself!









Just like a very promising date that was on a roll, one thing led to another...Y'all Ready For This?










Yep, planted the first round of stuff for the dry start! Lets start with a tour of the current layout:

On the right, you will see the ever so lustrous *Staurogyne Repens* as it creeps the base of the spiderwood. Behind it the mystical reds and purples of the *Alternanthera Reineckii 'Mini'*. Slightly to the left is the delicate ruffles of the *Pogostemon Helferi 'Downoi'*.










More on the delicate Downoi:









Here you can see the center of the tank with the 'field' of *Marsilea Crenata*:









To the left we can see the final carpet being started with sprigs of *Utricularia Gramnifolia*:









I'm still on the hunt for the illusive *Litorella Uniflora* and might be coaxed into some Erio Parkeri or baby Shiga's. The plan on adding stems in the left and right back corners and fading them out by shade. I see a wall of Rotala Mini Butterfly flowed by H'ra then Colorata then Green. The other I'm thinking a Lud fade.

Till next time!


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## bereninga (Mar 18, 2006)

Whoa lots done today! The background looks good!


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

Now to watch grass grow

*<Grass Grow Update 11/1/2015>*

Day 3:




































I'm keeping this post tonight short. I'm not in the mood to type due to being worn out this weekend.

Enjoy!


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## cube860 (Oct 3, 2015)

was indeed a long weekend


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## Ugly Genius (Sep 27, 2003)

Great start, Tihsho! Now you have the pleasure of sitting there watching even the slightest sign of something changing. Even slightly. Day after day after day.
For me it will be fun to watch the stems grow emersed as I've only grown a few stems emersed myself.

Once upon a time, I knew the answer to this, but I forgot. What substrate are you using and how was planting in it?

Will your driftwood stay submerged when you fill the tank?

You're doing great. Keep it up.


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

@Ugly Genius, thanks! I'm using the Brightwell Aquatics FlorinVolcanit XF (extra fine) as I wanted to try out a small particle substrate for scale on this tank. Plus I didn't want to use ADA for the ammonia issues. Another person on this thread recommended it and I figured, why not. Problem is I can only find one vendor... Since they have moved to a new corporate owner their customer service and automated shipping issues is something yet to be desired... As for the driftwood... Probably will float. I'm actually having mold issues with it, but I wanted it there to curve the plant growth in the right areas. The far right piece was from an old project years ago and should sink given time, but I have a feeling I'm going to have a tank full of floaters. Thanks for the kind words, now I just have to find suppliers for more stems... And more grow out space...


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## BadAlgae (Aug 15, 2015)

Hi @Tihsho, just wanted to say that I am really liking what you have done so far. I'm excited to see how the tank turns out, you are using some of the equipment that I have been wanting so you will definitely have to let us know how you like the ecoxitics and the mame because I have my eyes on those two. The glass in-line diffuser too although I must confess that I have not had a chance yet to go through all 11 of the pages in your journal. I'm pretty sure that the ecoxitic, if you were looking to suspend it, is dimmable. 

Not sure if that is what you had in mind when you mentioned suspension, but just thought that I would put it out there! Looking good! Maybe I will have to post my own tank now, I think that it's really cool all the feedback you're getting, seems like a really nice community. Your pictures are very excellent too!


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

@BadAlgae, thanks for the compliments! It really means a lot. I'm not sure what you mean by the EcoExotic being dimmable? I know you can set the intensity of the light from 0-100 on the RGB's and white LED's. So yes, it's dimmable. 

As for suspension, I mean hanging the lights not sitting them on the tank. I'm planning on rigging something up, but I want it to be clean and not an eye sore or bulky. TPT is a great forum, exactly why I post up here. Thanks on the comment about the pics. Setting this tank up was actually in motivation for me to practice more in photography originally. I wanted a reason to invest in nicer glass for macros and have the challenge of getting the right lighting.


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

Not too much of an update. Just logging in some pics with a new Imgur account (cause I'll run out of space otherwise.) Here is the lawn day 4:



















I'm not sure you can see it, but the Marsilea Crenata is turning a bit brown. I'm not sure why. It's moist and doesn't get scorching hot... I'm clueless on the issue. Thoughts?

I've been pulling out the stringy mold that's been growing on the wood. Gave it a bit of a dose of excel in hopes it kills the mold. We will see.

Until mañana


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## Termato (Apr 12, 2012)

Commenting to follow  Great stuff so far. Love the progress.


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

@Termato, thanks for the kind words.

So these showed up today:










MGSO4, MG(NO3)2, KH2PO4, KNO3, K2SO4, Iron Chelate and Plantex CSM+B. Thanks for getting these quick to me GLA!


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## BadAlgae (Aug 15, 2015)

Tihsho said:


> @*BadAlgae*, thanks for the compliments! It really means a lot. I'm not sure what you mean by the EcoExotic being dimmable? I know you can set the intensity of the light from 0-100 on the RGB's and white LED's. So yes, it's dimmable.
> 
> As for suspension, I mean hanging the lights not sitting them on the tank. I'm planning on rigging something up, but I want it to be clean and not an eye sore or bulky. TPT is a great forum, exactly why I post up here. Thanks on the comment about the pics. Setting this tank up was actually in motivation for me to practice more in photography originally. I wanted a reason to invest in nicer glass for macros and have the challenge of getting the right lighting.


Yeah, sorry I wasn't super clear about that but yes I do think that you can set the intensity. Not sure if that will help much though if it doesn't have a full controller, but again I'm not really sure. I really want to get one to start maybe something like a little 10 gallon going with it. 

Can't wait to see how the suspension turns out, I think it's really cool that people put a lot of details into their tanks like even suspension! Just makes you really appreciate the hard work that everyone puts in.


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## Tihsho (Oct 10, 2007)

I just want to say sorry on the delay to all of those who have been following progress on this. To see further updates of this tank go here as I've moved over the thread and updated it there. 

*<11/15/2015 Dry Start Day 17>*

I will throw this teaser update pic in here though.


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## bereninga (Mar 18, 2006)

I wondered why it got so quiet in here! Btw, I really like the Ranunculus Inundatus look. I thought about trying it out, but then I remembered that I still have too many species in my tank. Sad to hear you're moving over to APC.


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