# No water changes beneficial?



## domino (Jun 23, 2014)

I am not sure where to post this, but since the tank is low tech, I figured this is a good place. 

I am losing my battle with BBA and diatom algae. The tank 55 gallons, has been running for 8 months now, and it has gotten worse. Half my plants have died off because of the algae. I have, (and have lost) some sword plants, crypts, anubias, willow hygro, dwarf sag. I have tried changing light levels, using different lights, shortened the photo period from 6 down to 4 hours and the algae grows just the same. I have been using some Seachem flourish comprehensive , potassium and trace. I have also used some Excel. I would dose every few weeks based on the bottle dosage. I do get plant growth, but the new leaves only last about 2 weeks before the algae takes over, and I have to trim them back.

My fish have done well for the most part. I have had 10 Emperor tetras in the tank for almost 6 months, and they have grown well. I also had 6 Panda Corys, that are now down to 4. (lost 2 a few months back) 

My nitrates hover around 20-40 ppm. PH is a bit high at 8.0-8.2 and my GH is 13. These numbers have remained stable since the tank was set up. I have a Eheim 2217, Aquaclear 70 and a Penguin Bio Wheel 200 as filtration. I would assume this is enough filtration. 

I have been doing a 33% weekly water change, and I am now wondering if maybe this could be affecting the oxygen levels in a negative way? Would cutting back on the water changes possibly help? I am also thinking about dosing excel more often and adding a wave maker for increased circulation. I need to get more plants in the tank, but kind of hate to do that till I get this algae situation under control. 

I am sure I am missing some information that might be helpful, but if anyone has any thoughts, they would be appreciated.


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## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

The excel only works for 12-24 hours so dosing needs to be daily for it to be effective.


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## leemacnyc (Dec 28, 2005)

domino said:


> I need to get more plants in the tank, but kind of hate to do that till I get this algae situation under control.


Hi Domino...IMO you need to stock up on plants...so they can outcompete the algae for nutrients. Probably a good idea to list the lights you're using and also post a photo (full tank shot/FTS).

good luck!


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

" I have been using some Seachem flourish comprehensive , potassium and trace."
" I would dose every few weeks based on the bottle dosage."
Check the ingredient list on those to see if any have Phosphate in them. It also is needed along/w Magnesium in some cases. This calculator may help.
http://www.fishfriend.com/fertfriend.html
If you will read this it can help you to understand how ferts/light/carbon work together.
The hrs of light depend a lot on which kind/how much of the light you have.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=107303#2


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## kman (Dec 11, 2013)

Every few weeks? Even the bottles say to dose several times per week.


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

What lighting do you have? 

Why aren't you dosing macro nutrients? They are most important.

Excel should be daily.

I do 50-60% WC weekly and if anything it helps, can't see how a water change that remove organics can hurt.


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## BBradbury (Nov 8, 2010)

*Your Tank*

Hello dom...

The longer the tank water moves through the filter, the more it changes and not for the better. The media removes minerals the plants need for good growth. That's why large, weekly water changes are as important to the plants as they are to the fish.

If you're not removing and replacing half the tank water every few days, you need to start a more aggressive routine. This will keep the water chemistry stable, by removing excess nitrogen (plant food) and maintain high mineral levels.

Aquarium plants are tropical. They're used to long hours of daylight, I've always kept my tank lights on a timer and set it for 12 hours on and 12 off. 

If you're getting too much algae, you're likely feeding too much flaked food and not changing out enough water. Algae thrives in high phosphate and nitrate water. Phosphate is typically the first ingredient in flaked fish food and if you allow dissolved fish wastes to stay in the tank water, you get high nitrates.

Anacharis is a complex floating plant. It gives off a mild toxin that most forms of algae don't tolerate. Keep a lot of this plant in the tank and you'll have less algae.

B


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## domino (Jun 23, 2014)

Thank you all for the advice. After reading these posts, I am sure there are numerous factors at work here, so I will have to do a few things. First off, I did a major clean up today. I did a 75% water change, cleaned the equipment, (not the bio media) and went through every plant and got rid of all leaves that had algae. 

Coralbandit-Thanks for the advice on the excel. I haven't been dosing enough then. I ordered a large bottle and will start dosing everyday to see what happens. 

leemacnyc- Excellent point. I do need to get more plants in there for sure. It would be a good idea to add more now, as it could help. I will have to find some hardy plants at my lfs. The light I was using at first was a Aquatic life T5 48 inch HO with a 6000k bulb and a roseate bulb. It may have been too much for the limited amount of plants that I had. I cut down the photo period and still had algae. I then went with a Marine Land double bright led. I know it's not ideal for plants, but I had it and wanted to see what it did. The algae continued at the same rate as before. I am going to go back to the T5 and hope that with more plants, it wont be too much light. 

Raymond S- Thanks for the links, I will read up on those as I am sure it will give me better insight. The Flourish Comp does have phosphate, but not very much. Add to the fact that I wasn't dosing like I should have, I am sure the phosphate levels are low. I will get some Seachem phosphate and use it along with the Potassium and Trace. There is a small amount of Magnesium in the flourish comp, but again, with my low dosing, it wasn't much help. 

Kman- I should have been dosing more than what I was. I was just afraid that with the amount of plants I had, I might be overdosing if I did it as often as suggested. I didn't think about the water changes taking the excess out. I am going to up the dosage on everything. 

philipraposo1982- I do need to dose more Macro, that is certain. I was doing the potassium, but no phosphate. I was hoping that the nitrates would be enough so that I didn't have to dose nitrogen. I am going to start dosing more macros. I will continue to do the water changes, and I might even increase to the %50 as well. I then wont have to worry about too many organics then. 

BBradbury- I will have to be more aggressive with the water changes and see if that makes a difference. As soon as I can get some more plants, I will up the photo period. I have been feeding flake as the main staple, but I don't think I was overfeeding. I would watch and most of the food would be gone in a few minutes. I would also feed frozen brine on occasion. Maybe I need to look at cutting back on the flake and finding some other frozen, and or fresh food for them. I will look into Anacharis. Most of the shops around here have it, and it's inexpensive, so its worth a shot. 

Again, thank you all for your advice. I feel like I am headed in the right direction.


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## thinBear (Dec 16, 2011)

if your tap water is rich in co2, weekly wc may infact cause the co2 level unstable; coz plants use different mechanism to uptake carbon source at high and low co2 concentration(and it takes time for them to adapt different level), thus the frustration in co2 level will have some drawback effect

tl;dr: try aged the water to make sure it degas the co2


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

thinBear said:


> if your tap water is rich in co2, weekly wc may infact cause the co2 level unstable; coz plants use different mechanism to uptake carbon source at high and low co2 concentration(and it takes time for them to adapt different level), thus the frustration in co2 level will have some drawback effect
> 
> tl;dr: try aged the water to make sure it degas the co2


This is a popular misconception, that frequent water changes somehow screw up the co2 balance in low tech tanks, leading to various algae issues. Low tech tanks operate on a different playing field than high tech. You're not going to experience a 10 ppm fluctuation, no matter what you do. Degassing co2 on purpose is never a good thing

Most tap water can be counted on for 3 PPM CO2, which isnt much. It is safe to assume 3 ppm is a baseline level for a low tech tank. As it is used up by the plants, it reduces, but also replenishes itself via gaseous exchange. Oxygenation, as well as surface agitation, play a very significant role in maintaining baseline co2 levels. Both are highly beneficial. The more surface agitation, the better the gaseous exchange with the atmosphere. Which in turn means more steady, and higher, natural co2 absorption rates. Keep in mind we're only talking about 3 ppm here. In this regard, small weekly water changes, 20% or so, can only be viewed as a good thing.


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## thinBear (Dec 16, 2011)

hmm... I'm not sure then
maybe it depends on the water supply? Some water treatment may use "de-co2-reactor" to prevent corrosion, some may add some base to raise pH


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## Jcstank (Jan 3, 2015)

If you go back to that T5ho light than you may want to raise it up above the substrate from the bulbs to a certain distance based on what you have for a light. Being low tech you want the PAR (photosynthetic active radiation) to be around 35 and maybe 45 with Excel. You can use Hoppy's chart below to figure what that is for your light.

To covert from a four bulb fixture to a two bulb just divide by two. I can see why you had trouble with that Aquatic Life fixture though as it's very powerful putting your tank in way too much light in almost all conditions. I have the Odyssea light fixture 20" above the substrate for about 50 PAR and with the glass you loose around 7% so it's a actually around 46-47. My photo period is 7 hours. Before I discovered this chart I had my light at 18" and I had more algae issues then. I also change my water later in the day because I personally believe it helps reduce BBA, which seems to be induced by fluctuating CO2 but that's just my opinion.


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