# Getting C02 in *Canada*



## original kuhli (Nov 28, 2006)

I'm looking for people's experience with getting CO2 in Canada, I've previously had a bottle from Air Liquide but it was a pain to deal with them.

I'm waffling back and forth between the paintball bottle method and the traditional bottles. The paintball bottles would be much easier to fill while the traditional bottles last longer. I'll be using the system with a controller and a solenoid so my use should be a bit lower than usual for a 90 or 135 gallon tank.

Opinions? BTW, I'm in Calgary. Also, I'm not aware of any beverage places that can be of service.


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## metasyntax (Mar 12, 2006)

A couple of things to try (I'm north of toronto BTW). If you don't care about owning your own tank, call the local hydroponics store they often have 20# bottles that you pay a deposit on (~$75) and then just swap it when it's empty (~$20). Second, you can look up Fire Extinguisher places, they often will sell and/or fill 5# and 10# tanks. Finally look under industrial gas and/or welding supplies in the yellow pages, with so much work in the oil sands the welding supply places are probably all over.

HTH


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## original kuhli (Nov 28, 2006)

Thanks, the Hydroponics and Fire places are a good suggestion. About the oil sands, they're all the way up in Ft. McMurray so there's not much impact here.


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## metasyntax (Mar 12, 2006)

Ah.. the way it played on the news here you just walk into any calgary backyard and start digging up oil


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## original kuhli (Nov 28, 2006)

Well, to be fair, there's an impact here, no doubt about that. I guess I was referring to industrial activity...not that much of it going on here.


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## Yves514 (Feb 18, 2004)

I looked at getting it from my welding gas supplier. But it was way too expensive for a small bottle. (ie 20#). So I found a local fire extinguisher repair and sales business who sold me a tank (at a fair price) and refills it at a low cost. A 20# tank lasts me about a year on my 45gal tank.

PS, the problem with the swapping thanks method (with a gas supplier) is you can end up with really crappy looking tanks. That's why I preferred to purchase a new or reconditioned tank.


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

If your 20 lb tank is only lasting a year on a 45 gallon then you have a leak.


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## metasyntax (Mar 12, 2006)

Yves514 said:


> PS, the problem with the swapping thanks method (with a gas supplier) is you can end up with really crappy looking tanks. That's why I preferred to purchase a new or reconditioned tank.


I'm just going to hide it under my tank and not worry about looks


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## Aflac (Jan 19, 2005)

I had the same problem you did trying to find a tank (I live in Calgary as well). I ended up ordering a 10lb tank online (Kegworks.com) for about $120 shipped. That was still quite cheaper than anyone around here could offer. 

Oxypro was the cheapest to fill the tank too at around $30 I think. It's been a couple months now so not postive. I called almost every gas supplier I could find in the yellow pages and this was the cheapest I could find.

If you end up finding anything cheaper let me know!!!


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## original kuhli (Nov 28, 2006)

I'm still seriously looking at the paintball option, Badlands Painball Supplies Canada - Paintball CO2 Systems has the tanks and can fill them during normal business hours, rumour has it that Crappy Tire can fill them at any time so one thought it to buy two tanks and never have any downtime. It looks like that'd cost about $130 and I'm not sure of the refill cost but it wouldn't be too different.

The other option is to go the conventional tank route (I'd rather not buy the tank), the refill thing bugs me because I'm never in the industrial area with my car during business hours so I'd be taking time off work to go fill CO2...which isn't quite square with me(even though I may be square!). The option thats in my area is Quick Grow. They do refills of conventional bottles. This wouldn't be particularily fair to the company that supplied the tank but...

I still have to get a hold of the fire supply places to check out their options as well as make a final decision on how much space I have for the bottle. 

Thanks for the ideas thus far!


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## cherokeetestpilot (Dec 8, 2006)

could one of you guys direct me to a link that deals with the paintball method and what equipment I'd need exactly (other than the paintball CO2 tank)

Thanks guys


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## original kuhli (Nov 28, 2006)

Mmm, to be honest I've not thought too hard about it. My intent was to get the tank/s, I've got a regulator and then figure out the adapter that I'd need to use to put the two together. 

In my experience these logistics and details are far easier to figure out than it appears online. Between what the different groups like paintball, brewing, aquariums, fire and general industrial groups call things you'd think it's rocket science(at times it is online), when all you really need is a 3/8 to 1/4 adapter or something.

Sorry I can't be of more help.


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## metasyntax (Mar 12, 2006)

red sea has a setup but it's ~220CDN at BA. you might be able to find it cheaper though. I also have not heard any reviews on the co2 setups so YMMV and all that.

Red Sea CO2 Pro System (Paintball) at Big Al's Online


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## cherokeetestpilot (Dec 8, 2006)

hmm...kinda pricey. But I guess you can't really get away from that, can you? Unless someone else knows something else that's a bit cheaper.

Thanks for your input guys.


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

That Red Sea system doesn't even have a solenoid. I may be building some Nano CO2 systems with solenoids. Cost delivered to Canada would be about $185 USD if I can get enough orders together.


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## Blacksunshine (Oct 11, 2006)

you can deff get a PB setup much cheaper then teh redseas one. you just need a decent o2 regulator. A Paintball tank REfill adapter that you can tear apart and some brass fittings to get everything to match up. you can even get a silenoid from rex or somewere online and put that on the lowpressure side.


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## cherokeetestpilot (Dec 8, 2006)

Ok Rex,

So if I wanted to get started pumping CO2 into my 29g, what would you recommend, what's involved, how much, and can you provide it. I'm new so this is pretty greek to me. I'm learning, but as of now, I'm not too knowledgeable on the subject.

Thank you
Jesse


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

The basics needed for pressurized CO2 are:

Cylinder
Regulator
Needle valve
Tubing
Check valve
Diffusion method

The first thing to do is source your CO2 cylinder. I have tips in my Guide on doing that.

Once you have done that decide if you want to run the CO2 24/7 or if you want it to cycle on and off with a timer or be controlled. If you want controlled then you also need a pH monitor. You will also need a solenoid if you want controlled or to turn on and off with a timer.

Depending on your diffusion method you might also want a bubble counter.

Diffusion method is how the CO2 gets mixed with the water. I'm a big fan of DIY PVC external reactors. These work great if you have a canister filter. 

I can provide all of the above. It's all listed in my Guide in the CO2 section.

Note that at this time I'm talking about full sized systems. I can provide a nano setup but they are a bit more expensive. I will be posting pictures of a nano rig later this week with any luck.


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## cherokeetestpilot (Dec 8, 2006)

Hi rex,

Thanks. When would I need to consider a nano setup? Won't a regular set be ok? And......how much for the regulare setup?


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

Nano setups are for people with very little space. Otherwise the standard setups work just fine.

All my systems are listed in my Guide. In the CO2 section.


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## original kuhli (Nov 28, 2006)

So has anyone found hardware that's commonly available in Canada? Don't forget, we don't get everything up here that you do down there... Anyone in the Calgary region?


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## cherokeetestpilot (Dec 8, 2006)

I don't know if you have a princess auto in the calgary area but here in langley, bc I found everything I needed in their surplus section. That probably varies from store to store though. Worth a shot. I spent $40 on it this morning.


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## original kuhli (Nov 28, 2006)

Great idea! Princess Auto...hadn't thought of that!


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## madman280 (Jul 9, 2006)

:hihi: The rumor that Canadian Tires stores refill paintball tanks isn't a rumor.

Not all stores do, but I have 3 within a 15 mins drive. They only refill tanks with intact labels. I can have a 20oz tank filled for $11.00, 9 am to 9 pm every day. All of the welding and fire places around here are only open 5 days a week 8 am to 5 pm...the same hours I work out of town. The tank cost me around $70, there are smaller ones for less.
Had a leak in my bubble counter, had to refill mine yesterday, at 8PM:hihi: 
Nearly any big tank regulator can be converted by using a hose to bottle adapter and a high pressure 1/4" pipe nipple. Badlands sells the bottle adapter for $14.99. http://www.badlandspaintball.com/airsystems/hosesnparts








Remove the large bottle adapter, apply a small amount of pipe dope to the threads (not teflon tape) and then screw it all together. The paint ball tanks fit very nicly into a bicycle water bottle cage $6.99 at CTC








A solenoid an a simple light timer with the lights is nice to conserve gas. I highly recomend the Clippard needle valves, hose,check valves and solenoids Rex sells. Yes he is in the US but they fit in a padded USPS padded envelope nicly.
In Canada try local industral supply places in the yellow pages.


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## original kuhli (Nov 28, 2006)

Well, its coming together, should've checked the thread before going to Badlands paintball and Princess Auto.











I bought the 20 oz tank here, with a slightly better valve, it works so that if you push from one side it opens, push from the other it closes. The basic unit comes with a pin valve that paintball equipment depresses as it is assembled. The only real benefit to using this one is that I may save a tiny bit of gas during assembly, the cost was only $4-5 more so I opted to go that route.

I have the regulator from Your Aquarium Supply Specialists! which I believe is a Blueline.











For everyone's purposes, my regulator accepts a male 1/2 outlet. While the paintball fitting is a 1/2 male, the fitting isn't the same type, it has an extended portion which makes attaching it to standard regulators require an a combination of adapters. 

The critical one (that madman describes above) is the hose to bottle adapter, from there you can use standard gas/hydraulics fittings to finish the job (relatively easy to find, Princess Auto). I neglected to buy it, went to Princess Auto and spent 1/2 hour trying to figure out if there's a way to do this without it. THERE ISN'T.

I'll complete this once I've got the system assembled. FYI, in case you hadn't guessed: you'll get a lot of strange looks while completing this DIY project!


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## cherokeetestpilot (Dec 8, 2006)

Where did you get the tanks from??


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## original kuhli (Nov 28, 2006)

Badlands Paintball supply: Badlands Painball Supplies Canada - Paintball CO2 Systems.

There's one only a few blocks from my place! How good is that! $4.50 to fill a 20 oz. Paid $45 cdn for the tank with the better valve (don't know if that's necessary, will advise).


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## cherokeetestpilot (Dec 8, 2006)

K...sounds good.

We have about 3-4 paintball supply places around here...BUT...I own an automotive shop and may have worked out a deal on a 5lb cylinder ***BRAND NEW*** for a tune up (which is only about $20 my cost). I lucked out on that one.


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## cherokeetestpilot (Dec 8, 2006)

I don't know if this helps anybody but I found that if you go to dental equipment repair or medical equipment repair services, they will often sell you TOP QUALITY regulator assemblies at a fraction of the cost. These units are high quality.


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## original kuhli (Nov 28, 2006)

Well, they didn't have the adapter as described, rather I ended up paying $30 cdn for a remote adapter that I'll disassemble and use the valve only. If you're looking for parts and can find a remote valve that looks like the one in the photo, go that route.









Badlands Painball Supplies Canada - Paintbal Gun Remotes

The valves are 1/4 inch coming out of the remove valve. The plan is to assemble a 1/4 male to 1/4 male section and 1/4 female to 1/2 male elbow to get me up to the regulator size. Will advise.


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## cherokeetestpilot (Dec 8, 2006)

Hey Kuhli,

hows your assembly coming along?


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## original kuhli (Nov 28, 2006)

*Hmmm*

I've had one problem, the first bottle I bought had a leaky valve, yes a leaky valve in a new bottle. I think it was mostly due to the twisting and whatnot of the assembly but nonetheless it was leaky.

I've just bought a new bottle(old bottle has become a spare to swap out once it's valve is replaced), assembled things(still have a 1 bps leak) and have discovered that my solenoid doesn't work, so at this point I'm looking for a replacement solenoid. 

The main challenge of doing this is getting an arrangement set up that doesn't loosen/tighten all of the adapters every time a bottle is changed. Basically, when you assemble things you should give it some time for the joint sealant to set up. Each time you do this (and fail) you end up resealing things and a lot of time is wasted. I think I'm going to add an elbow to make it so that this isn't the case.

Anywho, I'll get some pics up here soon, it's pretty basic and straight forward, but a picture does tell 1000 words...


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## cherokeetestpilot (Dec 8, 2006)

any ideas on how long you expect the tank to last....assuming there are no leaks?


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## original kuhli (Nov 28, 2006)

none yet...we'll see!


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## cherokeetestpilot (Dec 8, 2006)

I picked up a 20oz cylinder for $23 today at Panther Paintball in Langley. And that was filled.
Also got all the fitting I needed at Princess auto. I have a friend that works there so I got MAJOR discount prices. They even have a CO2 regulator assembly. Spent less than $80 to get everything together today and we even bench tested all the fittings and such right in Princess Auto...NO LEAKS!!! :hihi: 

Can't wait to hook it up to the tank


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## original kuhli (Nov 28, 2006)

Nice work! How did you go from the bottle to the plumbing fittings you picked up @ Princess Auto?


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## cherokeetestpilot (Dec 8, 2006)

Ah yes. Forgot to mention....picked up a little screw type on/off for the bottle at Panther as well. only $6.50 though. well worth it. The output is 1/8 " NPT

I just got a message from someone on this board in regards to my question about how long one of these bottles would last. They seem to think only 1-5 days....does that sound right to you????? Yeesh, I hope not.


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## madman280 (Jul 9, 2006)

I have a 20 oz bottle, I'm expecting more than 3 months between fills on my 75 gal bow. The solenoid on 6 hours per day running about 2-4 bubbles per second through water, into an external reactor.
I base this on my previous usage of nearly 2 months, with no solenoid, 1-2 bubbles per second, my homemade bubble counter that leaks if its disturbed too much, and leaky used low pressure quick connects I've been using while experimenting with a couple different used needle valves. Maybe I just need to stop messing with it, as my wife tells me, but for me its half the fun.
Cost wise... almost everything except the CO2 tank and tubing was free.


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## cherokeetestpilot (Dec 8, 2006)

nice!!! I like the FREE part madman. :biggrin: 

So on a 10g it should last a lot longer. Any suggestions on the the bubble count for a 10g and how many hours it should be on? I have a solenoid as well.

Thanks


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## madman280 (Jul 9, 2006)

I'm far from experienced with CO2, so please keep that in mind.
Most of the advise I've found useful was from people on this group.
I originally was testing my water and aiming for a number. Knowing the hardness of the water and Ph I aimed for a lower Ph. Was kinda fiddly and my plants didn't pearl till just before lights out. Now I aim for pearling an hour or 2 after lights on and use the fish as a guide..if they're happy, I'm happy.


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## cherokeetestpilot (Dec 8, 2006)

Hey madman,

CO2 is up and running. No leaks and done for a lot cheaper than what I've been reading. Using Rex's style of PVC reactor and my own concoction of delivery in the tank. I have 2 elite sponge filters, one with the sponge on the end for the pickup and the other on the other side of the tank with the sponge off and in place of that, about a 12" section of underground sprinkler pipe with staggered holes drilled along it for output, kinda like a spray bar. I don't have a canister filter on this tank so I'm using a pump which (with the sponge on the intake side) acts as a secondary filter as well. I will take some pics of the setup and post them soon.


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## original kuhli (Nov 28, 2006)

Nice work madman and cherokee, I'm waiting for a Rhinox 5000 from ebay...then I'll start tuning...


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## cherokeetestpilot (Dec 8, 2006)

Ok, here are the pics of my little setup. I'm currently wiring my home theater system through the attic. I though, while I'm up there, why not plumb in a 
co2 system with modifyied wall plates for outlets at each tank. So, as of last night, I cut the holes in the walls and routed the co2 tubing into the attic where the manifold is going to each of my tanks. The co2 tank will set on the stand where I'm setting up my 75g. 

The result will be no unsightly hoses along my ceiling. Instead of a central vacuum system, I have a central co2 system.


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## cherokeetestpilot (Dec 8, 2006)

here's a pic of the finished wall plate for the co2 by the 75g where the tank will be sitting. When I get up to the attic later today, I'll take some pics of the manifold and such.


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## madman280 (Jul 9, 2006)

cherokeetestpilot said:


> Hey madman,
> 
> CO2 is up and running. No leaks and done for a lot cheaper than what I've been reading. Using Rex's style of PVC reactor and my own concoction of delivery in the tank. I have 2 elite sponge filters, one with the sponge on the end for the pickup and the other on the other side of the tank with the sponge off and in place of that, about a 12" section of underground sprinkler pipe with staggered holes drilled along it for output, kinda like a spray bar. I don't have a canister filter on this tank so I'm using a pump which (with the sponge on the intake side) acts as a secondary filter as well. I will take some pics of the setup and post them soon.


Good stuff!
Given my situation paintball CO2 cylinders are a great solution.
I see you have more than 1 tank?
Later as you have more tanks needing CO2 a larger tank might be more convienent. (longer time between refills) I noticed TSC stores around here have started carrying welding gasses including CO2. Their hours are comparable to CTC.


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## cherokeetestpilot (Dec 8, 2006)

Yes, madman, you're right about needing a bigger tank in the future. I already have 4 set up and the central co2 will be supplying all of them. I just recently found out that one of my gas suppliers will revalve my 20lb argon/co2 cylinder to strictly co2 for $35. I own an automotive shop so I have 4-5 of these lying around. I wish I had known this before. I still like the paintball setup as it's nice and small and doesn't take up much space....plus....I like to tinker a bit. 

With the addition of the central co2 system, that kind of takes care of the space problem anyway. Only one wall plate at each tank and a bubble counter with needle valve.


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## madman280 (Jul 9, 2006)

It must be the afliction of the mechanically inclined...liking to tinker.
I'm a tech at a Ford dealer. As much as I love and enjoy working on cars, its really nice to have something clean, relaxing and not hard on the body as a hobby. Been doing a lot of non-gravey flat rate warranty work on 6.0 liter diesels lately has knocked the hell out of my income this year. So been scrounging for parts every where. My regulator and solenoid are old MIG welder bits. My CO2 tubing and fittings are air brake bits. My dad a retired plumber and pack rat has a garage full of treasure.


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## cherokeetestpilot (Dec 8, 2006)

That's what I'm currently using as well, air brake connector but mine are new and pretty cheap at Princess Auto. I have recently discovered cheap or....here comes the word everyone likes....*FREE* parts at a friends work where they repair dentistry tools. The tolerance levels of this equipment is 20 fold on what we need given the nature of the stuff so I'm going to check it out in the new year.


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## grayandgray (Dec 22, 2006)

Congratulations on hard-wiring your house for CO2. Did you plumb a few places for the future tanks? 

Maybe your house will set a new sales record for the forum if it shows up in the "Swap and Shop" down the road.


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## cherokeetestpilot (Dec 8, 2006)

lol...ya. Wouldn't that be nice. I am plumbing in for future tanks in 3 spots. Isn't up and operational yet but I'll keep you guys posted. roud:


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## original kuhli (Nov 28, 2006)

Finally got things running, I'm slowly upping the rate at the moment via the inlet to a powerhead...no diffuser yet. 

I revisited Princess auto looking for a replacement solenoid and the valve Cherokee had found...no luck on either. I guess my Princess Auto is large but just not large enough. 

Cherokee, can you post a photo of the valve you found? I really don't like the paintball remote valve, its a real piece of junk when it gets right down to it. And I'm still on the lookout for a replacement solenoid, I'd rather not ship if I don't have to...


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## distrbd (Feb 17, 2006)

You should find a local distributor for "Clippard" in your city.they have good quality needle valves ,check valves ,solenoids etc.
I went on Clippard site and asked for a distributor in Toronto and soon after they sent me a catalogue with the address.


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## cherokeetestpilot (Dec 8, 2006)

Hi Kuhli,

I'll post a pic in the morning as my wife is out with the camera right now. As for the solenoid and valves and such, Princess Auto ships between stores for free. I finally have my co2 plumbed in, complete and operational. It's awsome. I currently have 2 points in operation and a plate at a third location for when I finally get my 75g up and running. Just waiting for the new substrate from aquariumplants.com. (I ordered it on the 14th of Dec and it was supposed to be 5 day shipping). What are you guys paying for you flow control valves aka: needle valves? I have very high quality ones from Princess auto that I picked up for 8.99 and they are even checked one way.

By the way Kuhli, if I can get something here that you can't there, I don't mind sending it to you. Shipping between you and I shouldn't take more than a couple of days.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Jan 27, 2006)

Dang it, I wished this thread was around when I set my system up. Not that I paid more, but I wouldn't have had to source all my own stuff, and mail order so much stuff. Nice setup!


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## cherokeetestpilot (Dec 8, 2006)

Thanks 2wheels. I'll post some more pics tomorrow morning


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## cherokeetestpilot (Dec 8, 2006)

Hey Kuhli,

Now that I'm supplying 4 tanks with co2 I'm using my 20lb co2 tank. You can have the valve off my 20oz cylinder if you want. I will be in Calgary next weekend visiting a friend so I can bring it with me.

Let me know


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## bear27 (Jan 11, 2007)

Did anybody look into pepsi in calgary I piked up my 20lb bottle for $50


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## 2wheelsx2 (Jan 27, 2006)

Nice....was it new? If so, you wanna ship us some?


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## original kuhli (Nov 28, 2006)

Really? Hmm, I'd trade a 20lb bottle for several solenoids and a bunch of needle valves... Has anybody found solenoids in Calgary?


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## 2wheelsx2 (Jan 27, 2006)

I got my needle valve and solenoid from Rex. Quality is excellent, and price is reasonable. If you can't find them locally, that's the route I would go.


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## cherokeetestpilot (Dec 8, 2006)

You can by them right off the clippard website for $21


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## arisk (Jan 11, 2004)

I purchased my Clippard parts through Wainbee
According to the website they have a Calgary branch.


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## original kuhli (Nov 28, 2006)

Wainbee, that's great, I'll have a look in a hurry!


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## joejoeg (Jan 11, 2007)

i have the red sea paintball kit, i like it alot ! its a like 50 bucks more with the solinoid i think. mine came to 250$ I LOVE IT


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## Treasure Chest (Mar 22, 2006)

arisk said:


> I purchased my Clippard parts through Wainbee
> According to the website they have a Calgary branch.


Arisk, which model did you buy? The closest model I can find is MME-2PDS-W110. Is this the solenoid value you ordered? Thanks.


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## original kuhli (Nov 28, 2006)

I second the question...


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## arisk (Jan 11, 2004)

Treasure Chest said:


> Arisk, which model did you buy? The closest model I can find is MME-2PDS-W110. Is this the solenoid value you ordered? Thanks.


I didn't purchase a solenoid valve.

I did purchase the clippard needle valve, check valves and various fittings.

I have seen reference on this site to a clippard solenoid others have purchased, but I know nothing about it.


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## original kuhli (Nov 28, 2006)

Here's the pic if it helps...there are a lot of clippard solenoids available, this one is from Rex's site:


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## Treasure Chest (Mar 22, 2006)

original kuhli said:


> Here's the pic if it helps...there are a lot of clippard solenoids available, this one is from Rex's site


I just placed an order at Vancouver branch of Wainbee. CAD$26.13 plus taxes. 3-4 weeks lead time. I also checked out Rex site and ordered the same valve that Rex uses which is MME-2PDS-W110. Now it is just the waiting game...:bounce:


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## original kuhli (Nov 28, 2006)

Thanks for the p/n, keep up posted!


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## MaximDim (Feb 8, 2007)

Very interesting thread, lots of information!

So after all, did paintball tank route works well or not? Would it be enough to get 20 oz CO2 Tank with Pin Valve + Hose to Bottle Adapter from Badlands and say Blueline CO2 regulator kit (CO2 Regulator Kit: BlueLine Products)

Is anything else needed for a basic set up?

Thanks guys!


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## original kuhli (Nov 28, 2006)

Oh...time to update this thread.

On one level I'm pleased with my solution, an SMS122 controller and the 957 Milwaukee regulator. I'm also pleased with the ease with which you can get a paintball cylinder filled as opposed to a larger one. Also, I'm planning to build a stand for a custom built 83 gallon and having the extra space to work with is a nice thing given that I'm planning on putting almost everything inline.

The bad news:

1. My solenoid was dead when I started using it with the controller, Milwaukee replaced it which was great.

2. The replacment leaked terribly. One 20 oz bottle used to last about a month without the controller. Now I'm chasing leaks and they're lasting 1.5 weeks with a controller (off at night). I'm still a bit miffed that the replacement leaked because the original had no sealant of any type when I disassembled it. Anyway, loctite has sealed that joint.

3. I'm chasing leaks...not easy, its time to disassemble everything in my regulator setup and reseal.

4. The first paintball cylinder with an on-off valve was defective, I swapped it for a conventional one that's activated pin style like has been mentioned above.

5. The remote kit valve was a royal leaky POS, pardon the enthusiasm, I think a remote kit is a good idea, you just want to make sure that the valve is of reasonable quality. I bought this one initally (bottom of page):

Badlands Painball Supplies Canada - Paintbal Gun Remotes 

But broke down and bought an on/off valve to solve the leakiness(top left of page):

Badlands Painball Supplies Canada - Paintball Gun Hoses and Parts

I went to Air Liquide and asked if there was any 'standard' gas fitting that could adapt out of a paintball cylinder and they said no way! The lesson is that the only way you can get out of a paintball cylinder is a with a paintball part. Then you can get down to 1/8th npt like everything else in gas/co2.

At this point I'm loosing optimism that the paintball systems can be leakproof, I need to reseal all my regulator connections before I can validate that statement. But if you think about it, the average paintball cylinder is empty within an hour of being put to use. I'm not sure that the connections are designed to be 100% leakproof.

There's more to write at a later date once I've checked out my leak problems.


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## Treasure Chest (Mar 22, 2006)

kuhli, add a few drops of detergent to a small cup of water, then brush the mixture onto the joints of your CO2 rig. If you see bubbles, then there is a leak.


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## original kuhli (Nov 28, 2006)

*Another way...*

On the other hand I think there's a way to setup an ultra simple system with a paintball cylinder, regulator, solenoid and a flow reducer of some sort.  It would only work if you were using a controller. The flow reducer could be a needle valve but precision adjustability isn't required with a controller so anything that could slow delivery would do.

I should also disclaim that I'd be intent on plumbing the injection inline into a reactor so the deliverability can be a bit more erratic...

I think this because I run my system at about 100 psi, there just happens to be an array of paintball regulators that can deliver pressures ranging from about 80(some say adjustable to 0) to 150 psi. 

So...

Paintball cylinder: $40
Regulator: $60 (Paintball Guns Dead On Inline Regulator)
Solenoid: $27 (as above in thread)
Needle Valve/control: $30 (maybe $0 if regulator is actually adjustable)
Plumbing: $40 (I've not figured out how to actually physically attach the regulator to the bottle, it will require some paintball fitting (thus costly)

Total of $177cdn or less, possibly as low as $97cdn + plumbing and I haven't really shopped these parts at all. If I didn't have any equipment I'd try this first... I'm not sure about leaks though...

Compare that with $110 cdn (min) for the MA957 regulator plus cylinder cost (0 if you rent) and the two systems work out to a pretty comparable price. However the paintball system would be far more compact.


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## Treasure Chest (Mar 22, 2006)

There is a Rain forest Pet Spectrum (Rain Forest Pet Spectrum Ltd.) pet store in Vancouver. They carry some mini CO2 products from UP AQUARIUM SUPPLY. I was told they were metric fittings. Not too sure if they are the same as paintball fittings.


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## original kuhli (Nov 28, 2006)

I've been looking around and the CMI Regulator model R2000 seems to do the job. It looks as though it runs as low as 50 psi (I'm guessing it might need to run a slightly higer psi to be stable), it's pricing out around 50 to $60 USD, I can't find it in a bottle/regulator combo which would save a few dollars.

Paintball-Loco R2000 In-Line Regulator with Output Gauge by CMI Thunder Pig Tru-Flight - Nickel Plated, Small & Durable

$36 USD on Ebay eBay.ca: NEW CMI PAINTBALL MARKER GUN INLINE REGULATOR REG GAUGE (item 280076547275 end time 28-Feb-07 17:27:04 EST)

I think we'd need to try the regulator, any of the reviews are all paintball related, there certainly are some regulators with spotty unpredictable performance...


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## FASTRAKR (Feb 24, 2007)

Any updates?

Cherokee, did you ever get any pics of your PA setup?


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## davej (Feb 22, 2006)

A couple of good sources for CO2 stuff here in Canada are

JL Aquatics
CO2 Equipment - Regulators, Solenoids, and other Aquarium CO2 Supplies

and MOPS
Mail Order Pet Supplies - SCPages Product List


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## madman280 (Jul 9, 2006)

I don't think paintball regulators won't work. They won't go to a low enough pressure. They are used in marker guns to control and make them more consistant. Normally they use an orfice to knock the pressure down to around 300 to 500 psi. A PB regulator wouldn't be used below 200 psi if I recall correctly. Thats the pressure required to fire the newer low pressure markers. It has to spit that gob of paint out the barrel after all. 
We'll need more like 20 psi or less. Then we'll knock that down further with a needle valve to a maximun of 5 bubble per second through a water in a bubble counter. The advert says it will go down to 0 psi but it won't regulate lower pressures very well.


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## original kuhli (Nov 28, 2006)

To get my Milwaukee needle valve to run consistently I've run at around 80 lbs with no problems, the flow rate is still restricted, but the pressure is high. For this reason I think the system would work. My problem is that I have an operating system and I don't really have a reason to try my idea out. It'll have to wait till something breaks or another planted tank comes along...


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## distrbd (Feb 17, 2006)

original kuhli said:


> I'm looking for people's experience with getting CO2 in Canada, I've previously had a bottle from Air Liquide but it was a pain to deal with them.
> 
> I'm waffling back and forth between the paintball bottle method and the traditional bottles. The paintball bottles would be much easier to fill while the traditional bottles last longer. I'll be using the system with a controller and a solenoid so my use should be a bit lower than usual for a 90 or 135 gallon tank.
> 
> Opinions? BTW, I'm in Calgary. Also, I'm not aware of any beverage places that can be of service.



I recently put together a pressurized co2 system for under $250 CDN.
bought the TAPRITE regulator from Ebay,and the rest of the parts here in Toronto ,and made a bubble counter myself,( also bought the 15# co2 tank from the local fire extinguisher place).
Over all it was easy to put it together and I ended up with an above average pressurized co2 system.


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## MaximDim (Feb 8, 2007)

Where did you get needle valve and solenoid in Toronto?



distrbd said:


> I recently put together a pressurized co2 system for under $250 CDN.
> bought the TAPRITE regulator from Ebay,and the rest of the parts here in Toronto


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## distrbd (Feb 17, 2006)

bought them from WAINBEE ,I ordered it by phone and picked it up at their store.

http://www.wainbee.com/index.asp


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