# German blue ram dead overnight?



## Ashok (Dec 11, 2006)

Sucks about the dead fish. How old is the tank? It is possible that 14 neon tetras might have increased the bio-load too much.


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## OAli (Mar 25, 2014)

junaid368 said:


> Hi guys, so I have a 29g tank and it had 1 GBR (male) and I added an electric blue ram (female) last weekend. Then yesterday I added about 14 neon tetras to the tank as well.......


Adding 14 new fish at once is the problem, even if your tank was cycled, adding that many new fish most likely created an ammonia spike. Also if your ram was bought in a big chain store most likely they were heavily inbred and sensitive to begin with. Look for local breeders and buy from them.


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

There are likely to be several things in play at once here. To get to the real cause, you have to do some checking. Adding fish is one way to get more ammonia but then that is not something that happens overnight and often will not effect only one fish. Have you tested for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate? That is often the first place to look when fish die. There can also be many other things like fish already weakened or sick.


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## junaid368 (Jun 26, 2013)

I think you guys are right about the ammonia spike. I actually had 2 adult congo tetras which I traded for some of the neons. And this all happened the same day, so I didn't think i would have too much of an issue with the ammonia. The GBR was bought from a local LFS and my tank is about a year old.

I checked the water params, and ammonia was 0, nitrite 0 and nitrate were between 20-40ppm. 

So I mostly likely had a spike of ammonia which has now been converted to nitrate. This was AFTER the water change, so I just did another water change (25%) and checked nitrates again and was now about 10 ppm. Hopefully i won't have any other deaths now. Thanks for the help


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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

OAli said:


> Adding 14 new fish at once is the problem, even if your tank was cycled, adding that many new fish most likely created an ammonia spike. Also if your ram was bought in a big chain store most likely they were heavily inbred and sensitive to begin with. Look for local breeders and buy from them.


this is simply not true.

I have a newly setup fully cycled 75g heavily planted. 12 day cycle with the help from atm colony. i added 13 cardinals and 2 pearls gourami and no spike in anything..


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## LuckyCharm (Jan 20, 2014)

Philip, you have a heavy planted tank, the plant can take in ammonia and the size of the tank. 
The issue could be bio load and stress.


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## lamiskool (Jul 1, 2011)

LuckyCharm said:


> Philip, you have a heavy planted tank, the plant can take in ammonia and the size of the tank.
> The issue could be bio load and stress.



yep that and 75g is a lot larger of a tank then a 29g tank...


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## bigblueallday (Mar 18, 2014)

How long was the GBR established in the tank? I've had a ton of problems trying to keep rams in my tank. Lost 2 of them on 2 separate occasions within 12 hours of introducing them to the tank. After adding another last night and watching them for a while with the lights off I've come to the conclusion that the one established ram was most likely bullying the others to death. Luckily the newest one seems to be able to handle it so far. It is amazing how much more aggressive my established ram is once you turn the lights off. During the day he just hangs out and is even a bit skittish of my gourami but turn the lights off and he's a whole different fish. 

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## Grah the great (Jul 3, 2013)

Anything else unusual about the ram corpse? Any spots or other odd coloration on the fish?


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## angelcraze (Aug 20, 2013)

Hmmm...20-40ppm nitrate does seem high just after a w/c in a planted tank, your tank *is *planted? However, you had two congo tetras in there? Depends on how long you had them, and how long you've had your tank up, but I would think replacing the bioload of two congos would be comparable to the bioload of 14 little neons. I have large tanks, but I generally don't add that many fish at once, although neons (bioload speaking) are nothing to me, in an established heavily planted tank anyway. 

Which.....is the only kind of tank I would keep my EB rams in anyway. Did you get a chance to observe how the male and female ram were getting along? Could've been an incompatible couple? I know they don't just get together cuz they are of opposite sexes. I know it's a different fish from a different part of the world, but I have read accounts where a female kribensis (usually the female too) has killed her male partner if she disapproves, even after they have spawned. 

I took two specimens for the LFS that looked like they were forming a pair. They were a pair, but from what I have read, it's best to get 6 specimens and let them pair up on their own, find a new home for the rest. Most people have ended up keeping only one pair, from what I've read.


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## Ritch (Dec 23, 2012)

I've kept GBR's for years. They easily succumb to all types of issues, including high readings, environment changes, huge ph fluctuations, hole in the head diseases, internal parasites and sometimes just bad farm bred specimens. When purchasing
GBR's I always try and see if they were wild caught, or from a good breeder. They seem to last longer. I've had a pair of rams for over a year now, they've successfully spawned at least 4-5 times. I'll post pictures on my break. Just my opinion anyways. 


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## junaid368 (Jun 26, 2013)

Well I've got more bad news. I literally just watched my other female electric ram die as well 

The GBR I had for about 3 months. There were no visual signs of any disease when he died. The electric one I have had for 2 1/2 weeks.

Today I saw the electric blue ram was resting at the bottom of my tank, and looked to be gasping for air. I came back a few minutes later and she was upside down on one of the plants. Again no spots or anything on her body. Btw my tank is medium planted.

I checked water parameters, everything seems fine. nitrates are about the same since I checked on Sunday. Water seemed a bit warm, thermometer read 80. I turned it down just a bit.

Surprisingly all 14 neons are fine, and they look great.


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## LuckyCharm (Jan 20, 2014)

Not gonna lie, Neons are quite hardy! 
Did your PH change? I remember reading that Ram's are very sensitive


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## junaid368 (Jun 26, 2013)

yea this is the first time i got neons and was afraid they wouldn't last very long. and no, my ph has been pretty steady ever since I started the tank at about 7.6.


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## bigblueallday (Mar 18, 2014)

junaid368 said:


> Well I've got more bad news. I literally just watched my other female electric ram die as well
> 
> The GBR I had for about 3 months. There were no visual signs of any disease when he died. The electric one I have had for 2 1/2 weeks.
> 
> ...


I feel your pain my man. In my short experience with rams and what from reading countless forums and articles I've come to the conclusion that rams are just very, very sensitive and difficult to keep. They appear to die for no reason although some may disagree. Good stock also seems to be a crucial factor in success of keeping rams. Try this site http://www.germanbluerams.com if you plan to try again. I'll be ordering from them soon as I've heard they're a pretty reputable source for good quality stock. 

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## angelcraze (Aug 20, 2013)

So sorry to hear that. They usually like the higher temp, 80F is good for them. I believe that consistency is the key, any changes should happen slowly, better luck next time.


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