# Some Shots of ADA HQ in Japan



## travis (Nov 17, 2004)

Here's a link to a thread on Age of Aquariums that I thought was very interesting. Something you don't get to see every day.


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

Ever since reading Takashi's "reviews" of tanks entered in the AGA I have a different opinion of him. It really appears to me that he is a bit self centered in his judgements of tanks and just as confused as the rest of us as to what is the "Ideal" aquascape.
Aquascaping to me is just a matter of taste and if you as a judge dont like the "look" that the individual is going for ,then it is a bad aquascape in their eyes. I disagree, I think you need to see what look the individual is trying to attain, and then ask yourself, did they get there ? I mean he was knocking plant choice in places where it appeared to me to fit beautifully, he was knocking "open spaces" where they looked beautiful but then saying on the next tank that you need to open up a space in the foreground where I thought the full foreground was perfect ! :icon_roll 
Its good to see that even Takashi is confused too.

I think that overall Oliver Knott's tanks beat Takashi's hands down because of the many different looks that Oliver can get to work... Takashi's tanks that I have always seen seem to be very similar. Stone,wood,grass, blue and just rearrange it. :icon_roll 

I was truly disappointed in his "views" of some of the beautiful tanks entered in the AGA. Of course I am sure that so much was missed in the interpretation to English as well.


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## travis (Nov 17, 2004)

I couldn't have said it better myself Buck. Amano seemed to judge the tanks based on his own rigid standards. Maybe that's what they wanted him to do, not sure. But his design philosophy is definitely not the only way to do things. That's sort of like marking down a design because it doesn't utililize 'plant streets' - not a very realistic way to look at it. If a tank doesn't fit into any particular design school, that shouldn't count against it. I feel that they should all be judged according the beauty and harmony of the presentation. My favorites at this year's AGA were done by several guys from Hong Kong, using a lot of color and innovative plant placement. I think maybe they've got a new style developing in that part of the world. I'm still new to all of this but I know what I like when I see it


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## bigpow (May 24, 2004)

True. I don't like the old man anymore... you can tell his age by reading his comments


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## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

Well, I think you guys should give Amano a bit of a break.

Planted aquariums are his passion and his livelihood. He has a critical eye, that is for sure, but it would be tough not to if you did this day in and day out! He is the innovator, inspiration, the ambassador, and the Master of the hobby. Hands down.

Amano's comments may seem a bit harsh, but I am sure a _lot_ was lost in the translation! Colloquialisms, tone, a lot is lost in translation. I am sure some of our bilingual members can tell us how much is lost when a film is dubbed into English!

Mike


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## Kris (Feb 27, 2004)

hear hear momo!
one never knows what is actually meant when it is translated, especially when you read the translation and can't watch facial expressions and etc.
kris


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## John P. (Apr 10, 2004)

Momotaro said:


> Well, I think you guys should give Amano a bit of a break.
> 
> Planted aquariums are his passion and his livelihood. He has a critical eye, that is for sure, but it would be tough not to if you did this day in and day out! He is the innovator, inspiration, the ambassador, and the Master of the hobby. Hands down.
> 
> ...


I agree with Mike. I'll also add that it would be highly unlikely for the guy to flat-out say "wow, that's better than what I could create."


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## travis (Nov 17, 2004)

You may be correct about the translation issue. It reminds me of a quote made by my favorite author when discussing how translating Japanese product names to English often results in hilarity (e.g. Come Back Salmon Vodka :hihi: )

â€œThere is something in the quality of a good translation that can never be captured in the original.â€?
-William Gibson


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

I never said the remarks were harsh and I understand fully about translation losses but like I said, I thought he was just WAY off base on many of those tanks. 
IMO the other judges remarks were more "realistic" and they saw more quality in the tanks then Takashi did and they were more consistant in what they considered to be "qualities" then was Takashi. Even with a loss in translation, his opinion's of many of the tanks were just way off to me. 
There is no disputing that he is the pioneer of aquascaping, all I was saying is that I could see "his" tank in every tank he liked. And personally I think that 80% of his tanks are the same as the next, with a "slight" variation to them. 

I left the comments section of the AGA feeling that the only way he likes a tank is "his" way... :icon_roll 

Thats my only disappointment in him. He definately is a master but there are many more out there that are just as good, if not better in my opinion because of the many different styles they excel in rather then just one. I would love to see a "nameless entry" competition between all the masters of the hobby and see who actually comes out on top by a panel of hobbyists. :wink:

I for one am taking down the Takashi Amano Poster I have in my room. :tongue:


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## John P. (Apr 10, 2004)

Buck said:


> I would love to see a "nameless entry" competition between all the masters of the hobby and see who actually comes out on top by a panel of hobbyists. :wink:


Now that is a great idea, Buck. Hmmmmmm?


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## glass-gardens.com (Apr 14, 2004)

Personally, I'd consider any judgement by Amano tempered by artistic, personal and cultural biases.

Funny thing but that's pretty much applies to any persons judgement, including our own.

Personally, I shy away from the competitve aspect of this hobby because it would detract from the reason I got into it, to sit and stare at my tanks and be happy with what I can achieve for myself.

For the record, I've always found it interesting to see man try to create the "natural" and Amanos tanks have always been far too manicured for my taste. His vision is one of what he thinks nature is as opposed to what it really is. That's his approach, but from the limited opportunities I've had to observe aquatic life in nature, nature isn't so manicured and that's part of it's intrinsic beauty and lesson.


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## travis (Nov 17, 2004)

glass-gardens.com said:


> Personally, I shy away from the competitve aspect of this hobby because it would detract from the reason I got into it, to sit and stare at my tanks and be happy with what I can achieve for myself.


My thoughts exactly. My tank looks exactly what I want it to look like and I don't think I would take it very well if someone were to tell me what I needed to do to 'fix' it. Then again, a little constructive criticism never hurts. "Stem plants do not belong in foreground. Remove aggressive fish from tank." :tongue:


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## Rolo (Dec 10, 2003)

Hmmm? I couldn't appreciate Amano's comments any better even though I didn't agree sometimes. I thought he gave the most constructive, practical, and _straight forward_ advice. While I like all the other judges as well, I couldn't appreciates ones constant remarks that lacked authority. The judge seemed to be straddling the fence between what they really thought and caution of offending someone. Not the most helpful. I saw Amano's comments as his completely honest, candid thoughts - which is the best criticism IMO. I didn't see it as judgmental and his own way. If the criticism was applied I believe each tank could make a nice improvement.

Couldn't agree with Mike anymore, Amano has a very critical eye. Several times I was surprised at such obvious, simple suggestions that none of the other judges or myself even came close too thinking. In hindsight I was saying, "why didn't I think of that!?".

This reminds me of American Idol. :icon_roll To me Amano is the equivalent of Simon (to a lesser degree). People hate Simon because he is brutal. But when you get past the personalities and see the 3 judges comments on paper, IMHO Simon's comments are the most realistic and qualified.

Anyway, I too shy away from competition. I'm happy keeping it a hobby.


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## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

> I would love to see a "nameless entry" competition between all the masters of the hobby and see who actually comes out on top by a panel of hobbyists.


I would too! It would really be a neat competition to say the least. I agree with you buck, I bet Oliver Knott would do a lot better than some would imagine! There will eventually come a time when the students will begin to overtake their master.

I agree about not entering my aquarium in any contests. It is a nice lay out, but it is far from perfection. I appreciate the talents and opinions of judges, but I am way too sensitive to have someone criticize my work! Like that goofy public TV painting teacher Steve Ross (name?) used to say "it's my little world and as long as I am happy with it, it is perfect"!


Mike


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## fishfry (May 9, 2004)

I agree with some of the members, and my opinion of Amano didn't change from reading his "negative" comments. We should always strive to be better and I think he deconstructed and judged those tanks the same way he judges his own tanks. I really don't think he looks at his tanks and says "my oh my what a wonderful tank, I am the king of the aquascapers <pats self on back>". Obviously that is a gross exaggeration, but coming from and art background I can say that I almost always find flaw in what I think are my most beautiful works, doesn't mean it is bad though...it just could be better. That is a great idea about comparing anonymous aquascapes, there is a lot in a name.


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

Again, just to clear the confusion (and my name) ... LOL

My opinion of Takashi didnt change because of "negative" remarks...it was *where* he found the fault in most cases that disappointed me. :icon_frow 

I do know this now, if you ever enter an aquascape to be judged by Takashi... you *BETTER* have some wood and stone placed in there !! ... LOL... jeez, I thought I liked hardscaping... I dont know how mother nature ever "positioned" a piece of wood that he liked.


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## Urkevitz (Jan 12, 2004)

Buck said:


> Again, just to clear the confusion (and my name) ... LOL
> 
> My opinion of Takashi didnt change because of "negative" remarks...it was *where* he found the fault in most cases that disappointed me. :icon_frow
> 
> I do know this now, if you ever enter an aquascape to be judged by Takashi... you *BETTER* have some wood and stone placed in there !! ... LOL... jeez, I thought I liked hardscaping... I dont know how mother nature ever "positioned" a piece of wood that he liked.


 And never ever use Nymphea.


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## Opiesilver (Nov 3, 2003)

LOL!!! You got that right!


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## Gomer (Aug 14, 2003)

You might want to look at this thread Titled:
"Reflections from an AGA Judge"

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3228&highlight=


In it, there is also a discussion on Amano's comments which might shed some light.


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

Very well put by Phil... it almost sounds though like there were a lot of complaints and he is trying to justify the judging, I sure hope thats not the case because I thought that the tanks that won deserved to win. roud: 

I give credit to all the judges and I dont envy that job at all. Thanks for the link Gomer.


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## GulfCoastAquarian (Jul 30, 2002)

I liked this comment in that discussion on APC...


> Tony you're right about "If you don't have something nice to say, don't say it at all" mentallity in America.


It's true. Our society has grown naseatingly politically correct and that has extended towards the attitude that there are no winners and losers. I think most of the judges comments wete constructive criticism. Amano's comments no quite so much constructive, but I'm sure that some of the positive shiny-ness was lost in translation and his celebrity status.
I just think it is cool that Takashi Amano was actually a judge. Sort of gives the AGA contest a new level of credibility (as if it didn't have it before). Also makes me glad I didn't enter my own tank, haha.


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## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

I don't believe that is a societal trend. Not here on the East coast at least. No one has a problem telling you exactly what they think!

It is a "trend" here on aquarium boards. I read the same thread over at APC. I didn't like it or agree. With all due respect to the good people over at APC, feeling you are being patronizing to people smacks of snobbery._ *NOT* implying snobbery at APC!_

Everyone says they want brutal honesty. They want to hear exactly what people don't like and what they did wrong. That is exactly what someone new to the hobby needs to hear isn't it? "Hey, why are you wasting your time? You need to move this, this and this. That plant isn't going to work and you have no eye at all!" Nope. You aren't going to hear anything like that from me. I believe in encouraging people and helping them realize their own potential within the hobby. Some people's work may not be appealing to me, but who wrote the rules on aquascaping, and who am I to enforce them.

I want to see as many people as possible involved in the hobby. I want to see everyones work, good, bad or indifferent, and I want to enjoy each and ever work on their own merits and the merits of the aquascaper. I see something good in every aquascape I look at, even if the only good I can see is the aquascapers time, thought and effort.

Mike


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

See that... Mike has no problem telling you what he thinks ! Myself, Im the shy one here and I dont say anything to upset anyone. :wink:


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## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

I don't mean to upset anyone! :icon_redf Don't be a troublemaker! :hihi: 

I will not be discouraging. Everyone can't be Amano or Oliver Knott or Navarro! Those guys are amazing. I, like most people, am quite un-amazing. I do the best I can, and appreciate the fact that others do the best they can. It is that simple.

If you consider that to be obsequious, then I guess I am obsequious.

Mike


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## gnatster (Mar 12, 2004)

If I may chime in....

As someone that did enter the AGA contest I was disapointed by many of the comments. In sticking my neck out I asked for it to be chopped off and with a nice sharp blade, not to be placated with feel good comments. How better to advance then by knowing what I did wrong. It was not until I was able to speak directly to a judge that I was able to get good clear direction instead of the feel good dribble that was spewed forth. 

Along that line if I post my tank and ask for comment and state don;t hold back, tell me as it is I expect to get the same. While I have an ego that does like to be fed there is no way I can learn then make mistakes and have them pointed to me.


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## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

That is all good and fine Gnatster, but the casual hobbyist isn't looking to have their head cut off. The average hobbyist isn't into contests. The majority of us don't want to have anything to do with contests. Reading your experiences, you went into it to be judged negatively? You didn't want to hear any positive comments? You're not into self-flagellation are you?  

We are not talking about life and death. We are not talking about work related critiques that could mean the difference between promotion and the dole. We are talking about a _hobby_. I do if for fun. :icon_roll I want it to _be_ fun, for me and everyone involved in it. I guess I just can't take this whole thing as seriously as others seem to. :icon_conf 

By being supportive, I advance the hobby and my experiences in the hobby in my own way. "Spewing forth _drivel_" isn't a bad thing if it encourages a young person to stick with the hobby and become a contributing member of our hobby community. It beats spitting out bile and venom and chasing them off. 

Mike


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## gnatster (Mar 12, 2004)

We are coming at this from different angles. My point is in contests you are asking for the harshness as well as what was done right, and if I read your last post right, when on the forums one is asking for ideas and pointers. Wasn't this thread somewhat about the contest comments? 



> you're not into self-flagellation are you?


I do tech support for a living, so I must be


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## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

> I do tech support for a living, so I must be


 :hihi: :hihi: :hihi: 

Most of us working stiffs (no pun intended) are!

Mike


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## nightowl (Apr 23, 2004)

I too was struck by his bluntness and harshness because he didn't have many positive observations. The other two judges would usually complement the entry then critique what didn't work in their opinion. Amano's comments were just one sentence, usually negative. When your comments are going to be posted for the world to see, it's nice to say what is good about a tank as well as what is bad. Like a discussion instead of this is what I didn't like about each tank. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and so it is their opinions that we are after. Maybe his comments were abreviated due to the need for translation. Like another person has said, it's hard to believe he only had about one sentence to say for each.


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## Gomer (Aug 14, 2003)

When the winning tanks were announced, it was done as a slide show type thing. The judges were also up front and when a judge felt like commenting, they spoke up about a tank. Amano did speak on a few tanks and he had more than a sentence to say. If he saw something he didn't like, he wasn't shy about saying it and was rather direct about it. I think the translator did do some abriviating and only put up what he thought was important (maybe?).


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## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

> "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"


It is. Plain and simple. It is not a negative statement, it is a truism. 


Mike


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## nightowl (Apr 23, 2004)

when I said that, (beauty is in the eye of the beholder) my point was that it is all just opinions, that there is no 'right' or 'wrong'. Guess I should have used a different saying. Anyways I don't think it "shuts down conversation". On the contrary it opens it up. You can proceed to discussion of why it is beautiful or not beautiful etc. I felt that in judging it's nice to critisize and point out what you don't like. But you can also state what you do like, especially if it is posted for the world to read and get ideas from. Obviously it is a contest and obviously it is their eyes that judge. Not only didn't Amano "emphasize the positive aspects", he didn't say anything positive (well maybe once or twice.) He did however seem to emphasize the negative (at least by what was printed at the web site). His comments were striking in that they were so abbreveated in comparison to the other two judges. It gave me the giggles after a while. I guess you could say why waste words. Evidently, though, from what has been posted, he actually did say more than just what was written at the web site. I would have liked to have had a more lengthy opinion from him written for more of the entries.


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

> The highlight of this year's convention is Amano's presence and participation as a judge.


 And here I thought that the highlight was all the beautiful entries and obvious hard work by the AGA Committee roud: 

It appears that many think...if Takashi Amano said it, it must be true ! Now if the Kman said it, (Oliver Knott) I might buy into it.. LMAO ! 

***just a little fuel for the fire... hehe*


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## CodFather (Jan 27, 2007)

*Judge Amano*

This is my first post on this forum. I found this discussion by searching for posts by Travis because I like the pics of his tanks and was hoping by reading his posts that I would learn something to improve mine. When I saw this post it struck a chord with me. 

I think that Mr. Amano like anyone has his own idea of a perfect tank and has his own ideas of what makes a tank beautiful. Of course everyone who posted has their own ideas. Someone who was unhappy with Amano's comments pointed out his shortcomings as a Judge. It may or may not be true, that doesn't concern me. The fact is that it was his responsibility to give comments as a Judge. That is what he did. I can't imagine any reason for him not to do his best. Yes he probably used his ideas of what is beautiful in a tank, whose ideas should he use while being a judge? So maybe he didn't recognize the beauty in some of the tanks. That is part of a judicial system. Supreme court justices have their own political bias as well. He did what he was supposed to and he was a judge he judged as he was asked. If they didn't like the job he did perhaps he won’t be asked to judge again. I have had to judge in a few contests (not aquaria). It is hard to be a Judge if you have pride in yourself and respect for others. I’m not defending his judgment, I really don't know if he chose the best tanks or not. I will defend his right to make the comments as he pleases as he was a Judge. Another thing I bet he wouldn't ever publicly criticize other judge’s comments or ever make comments on tanks if he weren't a judge with the exception of someone asking him for advice on their tank in which case he still may decline in order to avoid offending someone. I should strive to be more like that. Instead I find myself feeling petty as I post this.

People in all walks of life have weaknesses for their own forte. Saltwater fish keepers might show bias to saltwater tanks. Such is life. If you have a job to do, do it. I would sooner knock someone for lack of effort than lack of skill. Nobody's perfect. If you are a better Judge than him than so be it. I salute you!!! If I was in charge of a contest you would be a tempting person to choose as judge (with mandatory comments). Chances are there would be someone to critique your comments or perhaps they would be considerate enough to bite their tongue and be glad it’s not their responsibility to be a Judge. 

One thing is for sure that Takashi Amano can Scape with the best of them......regardless of what people think of his comments as a Judge.

I am very new and very poor at aquascaping but I hope to learn more and create something that my family can enjoy. I don't want to keep this thread going because it really isn’t helping anyone improve their technique but I think we should be more considerate of other people's positions. Mr. Amano has paid his dues over the decades. It is his Passion, a passion that probably all of the members in this forum share. An undisputed master of the art deserves at least a basic respect. Ask yourself if you don't respect him how can you respect anyone in the art and in this forum? 

I have said too much and I apologize to everyone who reads this. I promise my other posts will contribute to the forum in a positive manor. I am truly ashamed.

The CodFather
:frown: :frown:


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