# Ghost shrimp plus Instant Cycler?



## Aquarist_Fist (Jul 22, 2008)

Hi there,
This may be a naive question, but let's see. I have a 5.5 gallon aquarium with some java moss. I've heard good things about those instant cycling products (BioSpira, Cycle, SuperBac, Stability etc.). 

Is that stuff so good that I could risk putting 3-4 ghost shrimps into the tank right away? I'm aware that they are cheap; I would still prefer them not to die.

I used SuperBac and Stability on another tank that is cycling without fish (w/ pure ammonia). Effect was zero, but maybe the stuff doesn't work with cycling already progress.


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## Ebichua (May 13, 2008)

Biospira is suppose to work the best but in all honesty and with my experience, "instant cycle" is never the case. Ghosties don't produce too much waste though, so biospira + ghosties should do fine and should not cause an ammonia spike. That is, of course, if biospira worked.


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## nanojimbo (Jul 2, 2008)

ghost shrimp can live in amazingly poor water quality (from experience) id say put some tetra water conditoner and that would be fine. if u have java moss in there already they should weather through the cycle process. i set up a breeding tank of ghost shrimp for my puffer fish by doing this, the result was 100% live shrimp and 3 berryed females! go figure haha


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## spinycheek (Apr 26, 2008)

Any over the counter instant cycler is not going to work well if at all because they are endospores of heterotrophic bacteria that will consume small amounts of nitrogenous waste but not like the chemoautotrophic bacteria which unfortunately cannot survive living in a bottle on a shelf. 

The chemoautotrophic bacteria (Nitrosomonas, Nitrobacter) are produced for seeding tanks, but they have to be ordered from aquaculture supply places and typically can only survive in a bottle for a couple weeks. These are also expensive, but the bacteria are literally a million times more effective at removing Ammonia and nitrate.

Here are some links (Not the bacteria in a bag!!!)
http://www.aquaticeco.com/search/0/Bacteria
http://www.fritzpet.com/turbo-start-700/


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## Aquarist_Fist (Jul 22, 2008)

Hm, is that info still up to date? I know it used to be like that in pre-BioSpira times when I had my last aquarium. But that was over a decade ago.

Of course, any of the shelf products tell you to stock slowly, and I assume they simply buy you time so that some real bacteria can build up. However, my LSF uses SuperBac, and fish store are usually not known for careful stocking.

Should I just throw 3-4 ghost shrimp in and put a Bible next to the tank? I would just use a pair of hardy fish, but the tank will house RCS so I wouldn't know what to later do with those potential shrimplet eaters

P.S. On a completely unrelated note, spinycheek, do you happen to know anything about Colorado State's reputation as a university?


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## spinycheek (Apr 26, 2008)

It should still be accurate info. The reason is that the true nitrifiers (Nitrosomonas & Nitrobacter) cannot form endospores like the other bacteria and therefore can't survive adverse conditions. The dense cultures you can buy have to be refrigerated to slow their metabolism, which is the only way they can survive for 3 months. If they warm up and start to metabolize, they will very quickly consume their resources and essentially starve to death. 

The non-dense cultures can apparently last for about 6 months without refrigeration, because there is more "food" to go around. However, it will get used up eventually at which point the bacteria will die. I use the true nitriying cultures and have had good success, I use it every time I cycle. But I am also not patient enough to wait for months to do something I can get done in a week.

CSU is a good school from what I've heard from my friends that go there. They have a very good biology/veterinarian program. The main disadvantage is you have to live in Fort Collins which is small college town that smells like cow doo. But if you're ok with that, the actual school is good.


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## Aquarist_Fist (Jul 22, 2008)

Thanks for your input on both. roud: I would not actually move to FC; CSU has a nice selection of distance learning programs, and I am looking for a certificate to spice up my linguistics degree.


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## spinycheek (Apr 26, 2008)

Glad to help


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## bulrush (May 7, 2007)

I wouldn't trust an instant cycler product with my livestock. Even a 25 cent ghost shrimp. While ghost shrimp are tough for an invert, they are not as tough as, say, a danio or platy. 

I always keep an extra filter sponge or pad in my filter boxes in case I need a new tank right away. That's my instant cycle.


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## DBL TAP (Apr 27, 2008)

There is a highly effective bacteria called "RightNow" bacteria that I and many others have used with success. It was developed for Water Authorities to lower Nitrates in drinking water -- when someone thought to try it on an aquarium.

All I can say it has worked for me. If you're interested: http://www.hdltd.com/


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## vance71975 (Jun 4, 2008)

From my personal Experience their is only one way to "Instant Cycle" a new tank and have it Fish and invert safe instantly. Do a gravel Vac on a Well established tank, Sucking up as Much Gunk off the bottom of the tank as you can, Dump that in your New tank and Start the filter, It SHOULD be fish and invert Safe in 24 hours Or at least it has always worked for me.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

As others mentioned, BioSpira is the only one that really works the way it says it does, problem is you need to have fish present as soon as the BS is introduced, or any steady supply of ammonia, otherwise the bacteria will starve quickly as soon as they come out of stasis. I'm afraid ghosties won't produce near enough. 

That's one of the main things people do wrong with BS, add it then wait before adding fish, what they essentially did there is kill off most if not all of the N-bac.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

spinycheek said:


> Any over the counter instant cycler is not going to work well if at all


I know about 10 folks that have had success with BioSpira, and have read about a lot more successes online. Granted it usually takes a day or two for "instant" success, and in some cases only seems to help finish the cycle a couple weeks early. I'm definitely not one to push instant snake oils on folks, so be assured that this stuff has changed the views of a very serious skeptic.

That said, it didn't work for me, maybe because it sat in the sun at my doorstep before I got to it. The stuff is never a sure bet for success. Needless to say I use seeded filters now.


I've read a few places that Biospira has a non-refrigerated
shelf life of quite a few months. I believe the ideal temp for it is actually around 50°F, but it can survive in the bag at higher temps, once fully awakened in a tank with zero nitrogen present they die off quickly.


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## Aquarist_Fist (Jul 22, 2008)

I see a BioSpira that says "New formula - no refrigeration needed" but it's outrageously expensive. And honestly, if there is a working shelf BioSpira, then the others work as well. As said, I usually don't trust magic substances, but my LSF swears it (SuperBac) works.




vance71975 said:


> From my personal Experience their is only one way to "Instant Cycle" a new tank and have it Fish and invert safe instantly. Do a gravel Vac on a Well established tank, Sucking up as Much Gunk off the bottom of the tank as you can, Dump that in your New tank and Start the filter, It SHOULD be fish and invert Safe in 24 hours Or at least it has always worked for me.


Yes, but if I had access to a safe cycled aquarium, I would not have started this thread. 

Btw, I definitely decided against ghost shrimps after reading that they feed on RCS babies.


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

My LFS swears by TLC and tells me they use it in all their tanks.., but why would any LFS full of long running aquariums need a cycle starter? Shady tactics! They're obviously not going to waste the time and money when they know they can just put an old filter on the tank. The cycle starters are definitely for folks just starting they're first tank, or someone getting back into the hobby, anyone who doesn't have access to a running tank and filter.


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## Aquarist_Fist (Jul 22, 2008)

No. My LSF is one of the best I have ever seen in my life, and I don't question their integrity (Don't try this at home, kids! Especially if your home is a PetSmart...). 

I'm not entirely sure why they would use it for their network tanks; it's probably more something for quarantine and such.


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## spinycheek (Apr 26, 2008)

some places will bleach their tanks between batches of fish in case there was any residual pathogens, in which case an instant cycler would be great for restarting.


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## vance71975 (Jun 4, 2008)

Aquarist_Fist said:


> Yes, but if I had access to a safe cycled aquarium, I would not have started this thread.


Ahhh gotcha You could always as a LFS for some of their filter media, Used of course i know mine gives it away free if you ask.


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## Aquarist_Fist (Jul 22, 2008)

That's a good idea. I'm sure they would help me. Thanks for the advice!



spinycheek said:


> some places will bleach their tanks between batches of fish in case there was any residual pathogens, in which case an instant cycler would be great for restarting.


Ah, that's right. Now that you're mentioning it, I've actually seen messages like "Bleach me!" and "Seed me!" written on tanks. Probably after diseases and for high maintenance fish.


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## vance71975 (Jun 4, 2008)

Aquarist_Fist said:


> That's a good idea. I'm sure they would help me. Thanks for the advice!


NP if you take a bucket they might even give you a few gallons of cycled tank water. i set up a 10g SW this way No cycle time cause i have a buddy who owns a SW only store. So i got pre cycled live rock,live sand and water all free, Ok not free it did cost me cooking for him lol what can i say i can cook.


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## Aquarist_Fist (Jul 22, 2008)

Well, I can make killer sandwiches, maybe I can bribe someone at the LSF; they are all pretty skinny people. 

For now, I decided to try and slow-cycle. I set up a nice sponge filter and added more java moss. I have a ton of plants coming in at the beginning of next week. 

I also introduced two young red cherry schrimps. And here comes an unrelated RCS question: is it normal for them to be somewhat slow after being introduced to a new tank? 
Both seem to have made it well through the night and have regained their nice colors. And most importantly, they feed. 
One shrimp is really inquisitive, they other moves around but just from one hangout place to another. Both seem busy somehow, but in a really, really slow way. Are they still acclimating? Is it maybe because of the low water temperature (~72)? What does it look like if shrimps are suffering from poor water quality?


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