# Disappointed with CO2 System Purchased, looking for help.



## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

Why do you want to use a disposable system. THat will just end up costing you more money. Get a system that allows you to have tanks filled at a local beverage supplier, fire extinguisher supplier, or welding shop. Surely that is an option on your side of the pond. And cheaper.


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## Nue (Dec 27, 2009)

PPM mean's Particles Per Million. But I would not rely on that, an accurate PPM measure is difficult. By getting a drop checker you can see the change in its color, and the effect on your fish. Very slowly turn the co2 up and once your fish start gasping you have too much Co2, then slowly turn back down until fish look happy. Its all about small adjustments. At that point remember the color of the drop checker, then you can rely on your drop checkers color. Which will be Green. Its not the same green for everyone. Blue mean low, Green is good, and Yellow is bad. 

As for your co2 system, sorry to hear about that. As Overstock recommended, get an actual co2 canister, regulator, and solenoid. Im sure you can find these setups in the UK, possibly in your price range. If you spend a little more on this system, you will save in money in the long run on the refills.


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## Otto72 (Oct 1, 2010)

Thanks for the advise guys, very much apperciated 



over_stocked said:


> Why do you want to use a disposable system.


It's more of a matter of I'm running out of money lol, the tank cost £285 and various other bits I spent out on, Oliver Knott Nature Soil etc. (I'll post a new Journal thread once its all up and running)
I chose the JBL cause it looked like a cheaper option but I guess in the long run it might be better to go for the more expensive CO2 setup.
How much would one of these said systems set me back then? I heard solenoid's on their own are expensive.
Whats your opinions on DIY CO2, and can you use a glassware diffuser with it? 
Also I read somewhere you cant go over 30ppm with them which would make them a safer option if setup correctly?


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## ridewake210 (Jan 12, 2007)

Well if your running out of money now your running the wrong set up. 
If money is an issue, like i said, your running the wrong set up.


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## Baadboy11 (Oct 28, 2009)

I've been running diy co2 for awhile now and really its nothing to be scared of...You can run it with a glass diffuser (usually). However its not the best permanent solution, but it will get your tank growing while you piece together a better Co2 system, or save up your money.


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## Otto72 (Oct 1, 2010)

ridewake210 said:


> If money is an issue, like i said, your running the wrong set up.


What I meant was running out until next payday! Guess I can wait a little longer 



Baadboy11 said:


> I've been running diy co2 for awhile now and really its nothing to be scared of...You can run it with a glass diffuser (usually). However its not the best permanent solution, but it will get your tank growing while you piece together a better Co2 system, or save up your money.


I may just do that Badboy, like you said as a tempory measure 



Otto72 said:


> Also I read somewhere you cant go over 30ppm with DIY CO2, which would make them a safer option if setup correctly?


Wondering if you could answer that question for me Baadboy11?


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## Sharkfood (May 2, 2010)

I'd be surprized if you could near 30ppm. You'd need an impressive DIY system to say the least.

Usually, DIY is used on tanks under 30 gal. I briefly experimented with DIY on my 65 gal, but never got very much CO2 in the water with a 2 bottle soda bottle system. I see alot of people running them successfully on small tanks though. 

IMO pressurized is easier, and safer as you can shut it off and on with a timer. You can also dissolve much more CO2 into the water.


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## Baadboy11 (Oct 28, 2009)

You would be hard pressed to get over 30ppm with diy, especially in a larger tank, you would need multiple bottles running at once with almost complete absorption which is difficult to do...so in that sense its safer but also less effective (and more work down the road). So like I said I would look at it as a temporary fix until you get a pressurized co2 system set up. :fish:


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## Otto72 (Oct 1, 2010)

Sharkfood said:


> IMO pressurized is easier, and safer as you can shut it off and on with a timer


So DIY CO2 would be running through the night time too which is a bad thing right?
If I was to run an airstone rigged up to a timer to come on during the night, would this cancel out the CO2 being injected during that time?


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## ddtran46 (Jul 8, 2008)

Have you looked into the diy paintball set up?


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## Otto72 (Oct 1, 2010)

ddtran46 said:


> Have you looked into the diy paintball set up?


I saw something briefly while googling about using paintball co2 canisters, but all seemed to be usa websites only.
What prices are the kits? I guess I could buy from the usa as long as I can get the same paintball co2 canisters over here. 
Not sure if they differ?


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## ddtran46 (Jul 8, 2008)

Otto72 said:


> I saw something briefly while googling about using paintball co2 canisters, but all seemed to be usa websites only.
> What prices are the kits? I guess I could buy from the usa as long as I can get the same paintball co2 canisters over here.
> Not sure if they differ?


For around 40-60 bucks you can get a complete co2 paintball system:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/115850-paintball-co2-injection-diy-setup.html


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## Otto72 (Oct 1, 2010)

Something to think about, thanks ddtran46, I'll see what uk paintball setups are like, hopefully they are the same/similar.
The prices in usa seem quite cheap but the shipping may ruin it for me :/
I doubt they are that cheap in the uk but I'll check it out 
At the moment DIY CO2 seems the best (and cheapest) option until my funds are available again 



Otto72 said:


> So DIY CO2 would be running through the night time too which is a bad thing right?
> If I was to run an airstone rigged up to a timer to come on during the night, would this cancel out the CO2 being injected during that time?


Anyone answer this for me please


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 4, 2008)

Otto72 said:


> So DIY CO2 would be running through the night time too which is a bad thing right?
> If I was to run an airstone rigged up to a timer to come on during the night, would this cancel out the CO2 being injected during that time?


Running an airstone on a timer at night would be a good insurance policy to prevent excessive CO2 from killing your livestock at night.


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## Baadboy11 (Oct 28, 2009)

Darkblade48 said:


> Running an airstone on a timer at night would be a good insurance policy to prevent excessive CO2 from killing your livestock at night.


x2 I don't usually worry about it, but its cheap insurance to prevent you killing your fishies...


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## g33tar (Jan 8, 2010)

I set up one of those paintball diy systems in that thread that was linked and I'm loving it so far. Not sure if money is an issue for you but I'd say it's probably the best bang for your buck.


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## jeffvmd (Apr 16, 2010)

Ditto.roud:


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## Indignation (Mar 9, 2008)

There is a great write up on UK aquatic plants society about a DIY (pressurized) fire extinguisher CO2 system. LINK
UKAPS might have some other suggestions for products you could find in the UK that would be useful. Good luck!


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## Indignation (Mar 9, 2008)

double post


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## captain_bu (Oct 20, 2007)

Personally I think a paintball system is a waste of money if you have a larger tank. If you do decide to go this route at least buy a standard regulator and then get an adapter that allows you to attach it to a paintball cylinder. That way when you want to upgrade to a standard CO2 cylinder you can use the same regulator (minus the adapter). The regulator for a standard paintball system can only be used with a paintball cylinder leaving you with no upgrade path.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Those little cartridge co2 systems are crappy on a good day. I dont know if you can get them shipped but there are two very nice dual stage regulators on ebay right now for around $50+ shipping. (Harris and Concoa) then you would need a co2 tank ($40-$100) a Solenoid so you could run it on a timer ($30-$40) and a needle valve ($15-$50) then you would have a co2 system that will more then likely outlast your interest in this hobby or even your expiration date if you keep interest.


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## 4DKH (May 30, 2010)

Yeah i agree, for the price of a cartridge system you could have gone with a full pressuried setup for the same price after a few months of those cartridge refills. Personally i would go the Fire Extinguisher route as it`s very cheap, lasts ages and gives a real good stable CO2 levels. I got my last rig for around £80 UK. Items were:

Wessox CO2 Regulator (from a welding shop) - £30 - Ebay
Needle Valve - £10
Regular German Solenoid - £20 - Ebay
5KG Fire Extinguisher - £10 - Local Machine Mart Shop
Drop Checker / Bubble Counter / Tubing / Non-Return Valves - £10 - Ebay
Plugin Timer - £5
Diffuser - £5 (any type that you like, i like inline)

Connect solenoid to timer (set timer for 2hrs before lights on), connect regulator to the FE, then the solenoid, then to needle valve, then the bubble counter but put a non-return valve between the bubble counter and after it just to make sure then lastly to your diffuser. Ensure you use a low rate of say about 1-2 b/sec initially as a large amount may affect your fish. Use the drop checker to see how the levels are, you are aiming for a lightish green colour, this will take about 1-2hrs to change after you start the CO2, then set it to turn off 1-2hrs before lights off so that it gets used efficiently.

Be cautious with attaching the FE, it is easy and will be safe as long as you are carefull and make sure all fittings to the Reg are very tight before turning it on. Take your time to check everything first before starting it. 

Indignation`s link is perfect and the same one i used for mine (you need to sign up to view it), i`m a member of the UKAPS forums and most of us on there use this method for CO2 injection.

Hope this helps,


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## Rosnana (Oct 27, 2010)

Hi, in case you're still deciding, just thought I'd add that the U401 system can be run with a glass/ceramic diffuser, JBL have a new one out or use another similar, plus you can upgrade from disposable to refillable cannisters by using the JBL ProFlora Adapt u - m and getting a refillable bottle. Result - CO2 now and upgrade when money allows  I run my JBL CO2 with a glass diffuser as it's much prettier.
Hope this helps.


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## Jimmyblues (Dec 16, 2010)

*DIY CO2 VS Pressurized*



OverStocked said:


> Why do you want to use a disposable system. THat will just end up costing you more money. Get a system that allows you to have tanks filled at a local beverage supplier, fire extinguisher supplier, or welding shop. Surely that is an option on your side of the pond. And cheaper.


 
There's no question that getting a 5 LB or larger CO2 tank with a CO2 pressure regulator is far more cost efficent than mini CO2 systems like the Fluval CO2 88G, Ista, GLA, or some of the other systems which employ the use of a small (and expensive) CO2 cartridge.

My 5 LB CO2 tank costs about $15 to fill up and lasts about 6 months between refills. The initial price of the system was about $150 plus the cost of a CO2 fillup. If you want to use pressurized CO2 the larger tanks are the way to go.

As for the mini CO2 systems, a few years back I paid $36 for a Fluval 88G on sale which I liked very much. However, at $12 per cartridge, that worked out to about one a month or $144 a year.

I have also seen these cartridges selling for as much as $21 each in the States.

And I have several planted tanks.

In the long run I've found that a properly setup DIY CO2 system turned out to be the best solution. It costs me $60 a year including the price for sugar and yeast.

The concoction that I use (2 cups of sugar and 1 heaping teaspoon of yeast in a 2 litre bottle of warm water filled 3/4's of the way) lasts at least two weeks, and produces enough CO2 to turn my CO2 drop checker green - meaning that my tanks are getting at least 30 PPM of CO2 dispersed into their water columns.

There's also the safety factor, given that a CO2 canister can leak or explode. A plastic bottle may explode (however unlikely), and if doing so it will make a mess. However, it won't create a life threatening situation with chards of metal flying all over the place. 

There's also far less danger of gassing your fish with a DIY system. One morning I went to check on the tank that I used to have a pressurized system in, only to find that my fish were gasping for breath.

The CO2 needle valve had malfunctioned and the CO2 bubbles were literally machine gunning their way through the CO2 hose. I did a quick water change which saved my fish. However, if I had arrived say 5 or 10 minutes later I am certain that I would have found a tank full of dead fish.

I have not used a pressurized system since that time, since I am not willing to risk losing my fish to a faulty piece of equipment.

If you are using a larger tank and want to do the DIY method, you can always use two bottles of CO2 instead of one. It's still inexpensive and should last at least two weeks before you have to mix up another CO2 cocktail. And you don't have to worry about your fish or your person being gassed by a leaking CO2 tank, or being hit by metal fragments in the unlikely event that it explodes.

If you choose to do the DIY CO2 method, remember to purchase yeast and sugar in volume, since it's much less expensive that way. SAF makes great yeast that can be had for about .23 an ounce. I order several lb. bags at a time and freeze them until I am ready to use one. I take the defrosted bag and empty its contents into a plastic container with a lid on it. 

I leave this container in the refrigerator until I am ready to refill my CO2 generators. Then put the remainder of the yeast back in the fridge until the next fill up.

The system works well and my plants and fish have never looked better.


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