# Killing BGA with Maracyn



## 2wheelsx2 (Jan 27, 2006)

After trying all kinds of water changes and manual removal, I came to the conclusion I needed to get tough with the BGA in my 125 gallon tank. The entire sad story, if you have time for it, is here:

bba -> bga saga

Anyway, I found some Maracyn locally (stuff is expensive!) and started treatment after a water change this weekend. After two days of treatment, the water started to get a bit cloudy (today is the 3rd day). Is it because the Maracyn is killing off some of my nitrifying bacteria? Will it cause distress in my fish? I haven't applied the third dose yet. I'll do that when I get home from work today.

Do I have anything to worry about? I know the package says to use 1 packet per 10 gallons for 7 days, but I'll run out after today. Should I just stop dosing and see what happens now? It does look like the BGA is dying off.


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## Blacksunshine (Oct 11, 2006)

I'd switch to a cheaper treatment. API makes little packets of Erythromycin for 5-7 bucks for 8 tabs. pretty effective. cleared up my BGA bout in only a few days combined with a day of no light and a good cleaning.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Jan 27, 2006)

Thanks, I'll have to look around for it. I had enough trouble finding Maracyn locally.


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## Blacksunshine (Oct 11, 2006)

Aquarium Pharmaceuticals E.M. Tablets- 8 pack at Big Al's Online


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## 2wheelsx2 (Jan 27, 2006)

Cool. Thanks for the tip. I tried the Big Al's store here in Vancouver, and they have nothing. The online Big Al's is way superior to the brick and mortar ones, it seems.

Anyway, it seems the Maracyn treament is working. Almost all the BGA is gone now, after 3 days. I'll use up the rest of the Maracyn, and then do a good cleaning of the filters and then a water change and I should be good to go.


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## turbosaurus (Nov 19, 2005)

I don't know if Maracyn is the same antibiotic, but Be careful with the EM tabs- it is a broad spectrum antibiotic and they will crash your bio filter if you use them full strength. I have seen people advise using half strength with good results.


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## Kaylee Skylyn (Oct 17, 2005)

Maracyn is an antibiotic. It is said NOT to affect your biofilter and I have never had it give me cloudy water, nor has it effected my biofilter (but thats just my experience).

*NEVER* stop treatment of an antibiotic early and NEVER dose at half strength. You will be contributing to antibiotic resistant strains of bacteria (or BGA) Overuse and miss use _has and is_ leading to bacteria strains who have built up a resistance to antibiotics and then the antibiotics no longer work on them at all.

Antibiotic use is not to be taken lightly. It should always be a last resort and always be used according to the instructions.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Jan 27, 2006)

Well, I don't think the Maracyn is preferential, since my tank went all cloudy for a few days. It's now getting back to normal, and my BGA is pretty much all gone.

I only resorted to Maracyn since I've been battling this for 4 months now. :icon_frow


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## fresh_lynny (Mar 9, 2006)

Kaylee Skylyn said:


> Maracyn is an antibiotic. It is said NOT to affect your biofilter and I have never had it give me cloudy water, nor has it effected my biofilter (but thats just my experience).
> 
> *NEVER* stop treatment of an antibiotic early and NEVER dose at half strength. You will be contributing to antibiotic resistant strains of bacteria (or BGA) Overuse and miss use _has and is_ leading to bacteria strains who have built up a resistance to antibiotics and then the antibiotics no longer work on them at all.
> 
> Antibiotic use is not to be taken lightly. It should always be a last resort and always be used according to the instructions.


AMEN!!!! Words to live by!


As for the bio filter, Maracyn doesn't degrade it...you are safe...


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## ianiwane (Sep 7, 2004)

Fresh newby do you really think that applies to use in aquariums for BGA? Besides erythromycin is no longer used to often in medicine. Its hard on the stomach and has tons and tons of drug interactions.


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## Kaylee Skylyn (Oct 17, 2005)

We'er not saying don't use it at all. 

We are saying make sure it is the last resort and that when you _do_ use it you *use it properly*.

I have used it on BGA in the past, I know the pain of BGA, the last thing I want to see is antibiotic resistent BGA.... all the talk of people using it at half strenth and for less than the recomended time _really_ bothers me.


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## fresh_lynny (Mar 9, 2006)

ianiwane said:


> Fresh newby do you really think that applies to use in aquariums for BGA? Besides erythromycin is no longer used to often in medicine. Its hard on the stomach and has tons and tons of drug interactions.


No not for BGA use, but in every other aspect. In tanks, in life. Anytime you over-utilize antibiotics and use them incorrectly, you risk resistence. see my tyrade on previous thread.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/g...omycin-question-2.html?highlight=erythromycin

Erythromycin is used a lot as are other macrolides <antibiotic class with ycin at the end of the word>


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## RoseHawke (Mar 10, 2004)

Question just as a point of curiosity: Would amoxicillin have the same effect on BGA as erythromycin? It just seems to be much cheaper:

KV Vet Supply

Obviously this is a last resort kind of thingie after all other avenues have been explored.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Well, if cost is really the issue: 3 day blackout works fine and cost: well.......nothing.

Non chemical tretament method, focuses on the KNO3 dosing afterwards, something the antibiotic folks always leave out curiously........:angryfire 

I do not think the BGA will evolve to live in situations without light any time soon........many places do not sell antibiotics without a prescription.......
low NO3 and flithy tanks are a good cause of BGA.........

I prefer to brush my teeth(making sure there's good NO3/clean tank) vs seeing a dentist (having to use chemical treatment or a blackouts).

I left for 6 days over the holidays, I have a little BGA and my NO3?
Zero ppm as per a colorimeter accurate to 0.01ppm, 10ppb. 

Never been there before.
Small cases, are controlled by good cleaning and KNO3 and WC's/
Big cases? Same deal except a 3 day blackout, takes the same time as the antibiotic.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## newt (Nov 26, 2006)

I thought this bacterium/algae usually appeared in heavily polluted tanks, i.e high phosphates, and BBA was due to nitrate crashes. Blue-green algae (cyanobacteria) contains phycocyanin and absorb heavily in the 550-600nm range (yellow/orange) so you need to be sure your lighting spectrum is OK. It can also leach hepatotoxins.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Jan 27, 2006)

I did look at the blackout method. And it seems there are varying degrees of success, perhaps due to user error. After some head scratching, I tried the Maracyn route. And it's worked perfectly. The BGA is all gone. The tank is crystal clear. I've vacuumed everything up as well as I could over 3 or 4 decent sized (25%) water changes. I can't go any larger without exacerbating the BBA problem, which I am treating systematically with Excel. The thread which started this whole battle is linked in my first post. The tank got so filthy because I was reducing my water changes. Believe me, nitrates are not a problem in this tank, with the large cichlids, plecos and silver dollars in there. I am just trying to find the balance between the correct amount of water changes and keeping the algae at bay.


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## jt20194 (Oct 16, 2006)

Kaylee Skylyn said:


> We'er not saying don't use it at all.
> 
> We are saying make sure it is the last resort and that when you _do_ use it you *use it properly*.
> 
> I have used it on BGA in the past, I know the pain of BGA, the last thing I want to see is antibiotic resistent BGA.... all the talk of people using it at half strenth and for less than the recomended time _really_ bothers me.


I agree with this. I had a bout of BGA that was out of control. It seemed no matter what I tried, I couldn’t get rid of it. Finally decided on the antibiotic approach using Erythromycin. Although, Erythromycin is more efficient towards G(+) bacteria than G(-), it is one of the safest antibiotics, meaning that it does not affect plants, fish or animals. BGA belongs to the G(-) bacteria but seems to be more sensitive to erythromycin than other G(-) bacteria. Although the bacteria important for the nitrogen cycle (your biofilter) are of the G(-) type they are much less sensitive to Erythromycin than BGA. Since I felt that my tank was completely infested, I decided to keep everything that touched my water included in my treatment as well as my biofilters. I was concerned about losing the bacteria important to the nitrogen cycle but still did the full cycle of Erythromycin. Worked like nothing I have seen before. The fish and plants did fine and apparently the biofilter survived since I had no Ammonia spike. The plants immediately responded and started growing the way I expected. I have not seen a trace of BGA since!!! 

I tried the lights out program but it never seem to work for me and only got me in more trouble.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

newt said:


> I thought this bacterium/algae usually appeared in heavily polluted tanks, i.e high phosphates, and BBA was due to nitrate crashes. Blue-green algae (cyanobacteria) contains phycocyanin and absorb heavily in the 550-600nm range (yellow/orange) so you need to be sure your lighting spectrum is OK. It can also leach hepatotoxins.


Not high PO4 nor NO3 nor light.

Dirty tanks, well, all sorts of interesting things happen when we neglect the tanks.........but you cannot resolve things by not taking care of the tank obviously. Dirty tank = neglect.


Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

With a high fish load with lots of cichids, several folks with similar issues, this time with BBA used a automatic water changer, no algae of any sort, excellent fish health.

Overloaded systems are not balanced, you will have to use other methods to deal with algae, and yes, it'll be back if all you do is antibiotics.

Neglecting an overloaded tank by reducing water changes is a very bad idea and is nothing related to NO3 from fish waste.

Is KNO3 the same as fish waste?
Think about it.

One adds K+ and NO3. Not O2 drain from organic N=> NH4=> then more O2 drain from bacteria as they convert the NH4 => NO2=> then again to NO3.

NH4 and high organic waste=> algae, of many sorts.
Lots of water changes removes the Organic N.

It's pretty simple why you have algae, but the next one will not be able to treat with a pill, the next species may be BBA or some other.

I would focus on setting an automatic water changer for high fish load tanks.
Their health is much better as a result.
So are the plants and headaches.

Either than or have a huge tank full of plants that use as plant filter, refugium.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## 2wheelsx2 (Jan 27, 2006)

Thanks, Tom. I've been actually keeping the nitrates down to 20 PPM or less in that tank now, with 25% water changes a week. It's just that I am not using tap water. I am only using aged water in a reservoir. And the plant load is increasing steadily. I am finally putting in more plants than they can chew up. The tank currently looks like this:










That pic is about 2 weeks old. I have double that amount of watersprite and duckweed (you know how quickly they infest a tank). I also added another 14 inch Sword from the 20 gallon and a few more corkscrew vals. I am also continuing to cover all the rocks with Java Fern.

I am cleaning the canisters every other week, and the AC500 every week. The water is crystal clear now, with no signs of the BGA coming back. I am working on the BBA one spot at a time. Adding K. There has been no new BBA growth for some time now, but to systematically remove all the BBA in such a large tank is taking me some time (having a 2 week old baby boy in the house isn't helping).

Thanks for all your good advice so far.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Jan 27, 2006)

Oops, double posted by accident


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

I think you'll have better success and less hassle by making an automatic solenoid float valve set up.

No water changes again!
Good conditions.

I set up one recently for a friend, used 3/8" solenoid to drain 1 hour per day.
Probably removes around 1/2 the tank, but mixing occurs as the refill happens.

Note: this is for a canister filter set up.

I use a Spectrapure electronic float switch in the tank(these are small), as the tank drains(I used a T with the solenoid on the canister return line+ a valve to control the drain rate), the float switch turns on the refill tap that has a carbon filter in line to remove the chlorine.

The mixing is reduced by the canister intake removing at the opposite end and at the bottom while the refill is at the surface and far end from the filter.

It is better to do the water change slower than faster.
Alternatively: semi automatic involves just the permanent installation of a drain and refill system, turn a valve to drain, turn another to fill.

Water changes should be made as easy as possible.

Hoses can be hidden and run under the hose like Cable TV wires etc, or PVC etc. Some folks coil the drain hose or fill hose under the tank until,they use them and all them do is uncoil and attach them to the drain, faucet for filling etc and detach later.

Very quick.

If I change 25% a week+ test for NO3/etc vs 50% and no testing, thwere's little difference in the work load.

I do not use buckets and while the tank is refilling, I get to do routine maintainence and other things.

Buckets are useful for small nano tanks though.
But they are so small such issues are not large and given the small size, there are best done with slow growing methods rather than fast.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

I think you'll have better success and less hassle by making an automatic solenoid float valve set up.

No water changes again!
Good conditions.

I think that given your have a more important element in your life than a fish tank, you should consider making some investments to save time on the hobby while improving the conditions so it can be spent waking up 5x a night to feed and take care of the son.

All the time you might have for a hobby should be spent doing the part you really like, fish feeding, gardening etc.

I set up one recently for a friend, used 3/8" solenoid to drain 1 hour per day.
Probably removes around 1/2 the tank, but mixing occurs as the refill happens.

Note: this is for a canister filter set up.

I use a Spectrapure electronic float switch in the tank(these are small), as the tank drains(I used a T with the solenoid on the canister return line+ a valve to control the drain rate), the float switch turns on the refill tap that has a carbon filter in line to remove the chlorine.

The mixing is reduced by the canister intake removing at the opposite end and at the bottom while the refill is at the surface and far end from the filter.

*It is better to do the water change slower than faster with an automated water changer.*

Alternatively: semi automatic involves just the permanent installation of a drain and refill system, turn a valve to drain, turn another to fill. This is very safe method and changes a lot fast.

Water changes should be made as easy as possible.

Hoses can be hidden and run under the hose like Cable TV wires etc, or PVC etc. Some folks coil the drain hose or fill hose under the tank until,they use them and all them do is uncoil and attach them to the drain, faucet for filling etc and detach later.

Very quick.

If I change 25% a week+ test for NO3/etc vs 50% and no testing, there's little difference in the work load.

I do not use buckets and while the tank is refilling, I get to do routine maintainence and other things.

Buckets are useful for small nano tanks though.
But they are so small such issues are not large and given the small size, there are best done with slow growing methods rather than fast.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## LS6 Tommy (May 13, 2006)

Kaylee Skylyn said:


> Maracyn is an antibiotic. It is said NOT to affect your biofilter and I have never had it give me cloudy water, nor has it effected my biofilter (but thats just my experience).
> 
> *NEVER* stop treatment of an antibiotic early and NEVER dose at half strength. You will be contributing to antibiotic resistant strains of bacteria (or BGA) Overuse and miss use _has and is_ leading to bacteria strains who have built up a resistance to antibiotics and then the antibiotics no longer work on them at all.
> 
> Antibiotic use is not to be taken lightly. It should always be a last resort and always be used according to the instructions.



Not to argue your knowledge, but every EM package I have ever read stated to dose at half-strength if you have Tetras.

Tommy


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## 2wheelsx2 (Jan 27, 2006)

plantbrain said:


> I think you'll have better success and less hassle by making an automatic solenoid float valve set up.
> 
> No water changes again!


That would be ideal, but I am not sure how easy it is, since I live in a 50 year old house with poor plumbing, and the tank is in the basement. I'm also up in Canada, where it's been -14 C in the last week. 

However, I do not use buckets. That would be ridiculous. I tried that once and forget it. I run a 3/4" garden hose in the the bathtub. Gravel vac goes into the hose and it drains out direct. I then use a Rio pump to pump the water in a 30 gallon tub into the tank. When that's done, I just flush the hose and refill the tub. Takes me about 20 minutes once a week.

Automatic would be a dream come true, but right now, it's good enough. I'll have to think about that auto changer when I reno the basement though. Thanks for the tips.


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