# Question about photo period and BBA



## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Personally Ive never liked going below 8 hours, just doesnt seem natural. If you are having algae troubles at 8, then going to 6 isnt going to magically fix it. Could be that you have too much light as far as intensity goes. None of your plants are all that demanding. Could try raising the fixture a couple or three inches, if its possible to do that. 

Im not sure what your issue is, sounds like you have addressed any possible fert problems. Too much ferts btw, within reasonable amounts, does not cause algae. There is something about thriving, healthy plants which deters algae. But it's not because they are sucking up all the nutrients. In the average aquarium it's not even possible to reach low enough nutrient levels to starve algae.

Super clean conditions and frequent water changes are a formidable weapon in the mean time. eg couple times a week 30% for a non co2 enriched tank. manually remove all that you can, dead leaves, or any badly covered ones, keep a debris free substrate surface, etc. could also try increasing Excel to 2x the recommended dose, or even higher. I dosed 2.5x for many months with no problems and good results


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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

My 25g tank has the same issue, I'm beginning to think this size tank is cursed as I see them very rarely and there has to be a reason... I've tried shorter photo period, reduced intensity, faster growing plants, even a riparium along the top of the tank for access to atmospheric co2, changed fert dosing, etc, last thing I have to try is excel, but I'm concerned my vals will melt

I think the height on this tank just makes it difficult to balance how much light you have at various depths to get good growth and not have algae at other depths, good luck

Note: most places I've read bba algae grows when co2 levels aren't consistent, so make sure your excel doses are regular and the same


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## pauliewoz (Sep 22, 2015)

burr740 said:


> Personally Ive never liked going below 8 hours, just doesnt seem natural. If you are having algae troubles at 8, then going to 6 isnt going to magically fix it. Could be that you have too much light as far as intensity goes. None of your plants are all that demanding. Could try raising the fixture a couple or three inches, if its possible to do that.
> 
> Im not sure what your issue is, sounds like you have addressed any possible fert problems. Too much ferts btw, within reasonable amounts, does not cause algae. There is something about thriving, healthy plants which deters algae. But it's not because they are sucking up all the nutrients. In the average aquarium it's not even possible to reach low enough nutrient levels to starve algae.
> 
> Super clean conditions and frequent water changes are a formidable weapon in the mean time. eg couple times a week 30% for a non co2 enriched tank. manually remove all that you can, dead leaves, or any badly covered ones, keep a debris free substrate surface, etc. could also try increasing Excel to 2x the recommended dose, or even higher. I dosed 2.5x for many months with no problems and good results


Thanks for the info. I'll increase my photoperiod to 8 hours and I'll up my dose of excel a bit.

I'll also use a turkey baster to try and clean some hard to reach places that my vacuum can't get to. It's really hard to clean the substrate with all these rocks, driftwood and plants in the way.

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theatermusic87 said:


> My 25g tank has the same issue, I'm beginning to think this size tank is cursed as I see them very rarely and there has to be a reason... I've tried shorter photo period, reduced intensity, faster growing plants, even a riparium along the top of the tank for access to atmospheric co2, changed fert dosing, etc, last thing I have to try is excel, but I'm concerned my vals will melt
> 
> I think the height on this tank just makes it difficult to balance how much light you have at various depths to get good growth and not have algae at other depths, good luck
> 
> Note: most places I've read bba algae grows when co2 levels aren't consistent, so make sure your excel doses are regular and the same


I bought my tank used thinking it's a 20 long. But after I took it home and measured it I realized it's actually a 25. I actually like the dimensions, but maybe your right about the curse. 

As for excel and vals, I have some too and they're doing fine. But when I first started dosing it I used less than half the dose every other day for about two weeks, then I slowly started increasing it. I did have some leafs melt, but new ones came out and were fine.

Now I do the regular dose and I even do the large dose that Seachem recommends after a large water change and I don't have any issues. I also started doing daily dosing.

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## theatermusic87 (Jun 22, 2014)

pauliewoz said:


> I bought my tank used thinking it's a 20 long. But after I took it home and measured it I realized it's actually a 25. I actually like the dimensions, but maybe your right about the curse.
> 
> As for excel and vals, I have some too and they're doing fine. But when I first started dosing it I used less than half the dose every other day for about two weeks, then I slowly started increasing it. I did have some leafs melt, but new ones came out and were fine


Nice to know about the vals, will definitely be trying the excel, and I had no idea they made a 25 in that size, mine is the same footfprit as 20 high, 24x12x20


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## pauliewoz (Sep 22, 2015)

theatermusic87 said:


> Nice to know about the vals, will definitely be trying the excel, and I had no idea they made a 25 in that size, mine is the same footfprit as 20 high, 24x12x20


Mine is 29.5x12.5x16.5. It's an old Hagen tank.

Really weird dimensions.

Good luck with your BBA. I really despise this algae.

By the way, as a bandaid solution you can do spot treatment using hydrogen peroxide. Just make sure you turn off your filter for about half an hour. Usually 2-3 daily treatments in a row will kill it. I usually follow it with an excel spot treatment. The BBA will turn bright red, then white and your fish might start eating it.

I've actually successfully removed BBA from some amazon Sword leafs and it never came back.


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## fablau (Feb 7, 2009)

Pauliewoz, how often do you perform your water change? How much and how often do you dose Flourish Comprehensive and Trace?


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## gbb0330 (Nov 21, 2015)

I would remove as much algae as possible, even remove moss close to the surface. 
reduce ferts by 1/3
keep light at 8 or 9 hours.
do more water changes.


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## pauliewoz (Sep 22, 2015)

fablau said:


> Pauliewoz, how often do you perform your water change? How much and how often do you dose Flourish Comprehensive and Trace?


I do a weekly water change of about 40-50%. And up until about a week or two ago I was dosing 2ml of comprehensive once a week. I've changed that to 1ml now. I don't dose trace because I've read that it's similar to comprehensive, minus iron and some other micros.

The BBA is only on slow growing plants or ones that are not doing well. I don't think it's caused by the intensity of my light because I have some low plants that also have it and one is even in a slightly shaded area and still has BBA. And I remember I had it start when I just had my one bulb 17w T8 fixture. 



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gbb0330 said:


> I would remove as much algae as possible, even remove moss close to the surface.
> reduce ferts by 1/3
> keep light at 8 or 9 hours.
> do more water changes.


So today I trimmed a few leaves that had a bit more of the BBA than others. I also got rid of some that were not growing well and were starting to decay. 

I'm not ready to decrease the ferts just yet, first I want to try increase my photoperiod to about 8-9 hours and keep my ferts the same. 

But I will start doing one or two water changes of about 25% on top of my big water change just to keep the aquarium tidy. 

I have faith that I will beat this nasty algae, thanks to everyone's tips. 

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I find it weird that I have a 5.5 gallon planted betta tank with a 23w cfl in a standard clip on lamp that has a photoperiod of 4.5 on, 7 off and 4.5 on and the plants are doing great and no algae. 

I'm dosing the same ferts along with excel at the same ratio. 

Go figure.

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## alcimedes (Dec 7, 2014)

> I know that everyone says to lower the photoperiod to help fight algae. But if you make it too short would that also create algae growth by making the plants grow slower.


I used to work in a biology lab, and the best suggestion I got from one of the plant guys was to keep the photoperiod approximately the same, but break it up into 4 hour segments with 30 min. of darkness between them.

He said algae, as lower order plants need 4 hours of continuous light to process the nutrients in the tank to energy to grow. After 30 min. in the dark, they 'lose' the progress they've made toward energy conversion and need to start over.

Higher order plants process nutrients faster, and will grow no problem with a broken up photoperiod.

Now I wish I could find a citation for this, but my google searches didn't lead me to anything.

Found one mention here, but they didn't cite anything either.



> 4) Noon Burst Lighting
> 
> Aquarium plants are able to adjust to a four hour photo period of light, a few hour break, and then another four hour photo period. Algae on the other hand, has been observed by hobbyists to have an adverse reaction to a lunch time siesta of light. The reasoning behind this has not been tested thoroughly enough to yield a concise result, however some believe aquarium plants are a higher organism and is able to adapted more readily to changing conditions.


http://www.aquascapingworld.com/magazine/Magazine/Methods-to-Prevent-Algae.html

Did find once scientific paper on the subject, and it sounds like it may also be related to algae being "seasonal anticipators" in that they change depending on what they anticipate the conditions will be. A shorter photo period may trick them into dormancy (winter) vs. a longer one (summer).

https://books.google.com/books?id=r...4DTQQ6AEIUDAG#v=onepage&q=photoperiod&f=false


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## pauliewoz (Sep 22, 2015)

alcimedes said:


> I used to work in a biology lab, and the best suggestion I got from one of the plant guys was to keep the photoperiod approximately the same, but break it up into 4 hour segments with 30 min. of darkness between them.
> 
> He said algae, as lower order plants need 4 hours of continuous light to process the nutrients in the tank to energy to grow. After 30 min. in the dark, they 'lose' the progress they've made toward energy conversion and need to start over.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the great info. 

So I started doing a split photoperiod just like on my 5.5 gallon. 3.5 hours in the morning than an 8 hour break and on for 3.5 hours. I know it's a long break in between, but the plants in my small tank don't mind.

I also increased the amount of daily excel from 2.5ml to 5ml. I figured that because my tank is somewhat heavily planted maybe the plants are not getting enough c02. I also increased my macro ferts dosage. 

So far most of the algae is turning red and I'm not seeing any new growth. I'm thinking that the algaecide in excel is killing it slowly.

My plants turned really green and my crypts really perked up. The leaves are not touching the substrate, so I'm guessing they're enjoying the extra excel and ferts. 

So we'll see how it goes. I don't want to get my hopes up because I know how it is with BBA and staghorne. Just when you think you got rid of it, it can come back with a vengeance.

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