# Hair algae in new tank, growing HC



## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

What's the substrate and what are you dosing?


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

Take it easy with the CO2 - even with no fish, too much can be harmful to the tank (especially to the bacterial population, which serve many important roles beyond nitrification). Do you know your BPS rate?

Hair algae is usually caused by a short-term imbalance - usually too much light, too many nutrients, or an ammonia spike. But the nasty thing is once it's in your tank; it's in there forever, and usually in a very virulent form, where constant vigilance is required to keep it at bay. Unfortunately it seems to do just fine in conditions that plants thrive in as well. 

Since your tank is new and without inhabitants I'd recommend using API Algaefix. First manually remove as much as possible. Dose one half of the recommended dose in the morning, and dose the rest that evening; you may want to temporarily turn off your pumps/filters for this. You'll know it's working when the algae starts turning white. Repeat as needed until it's all gone. And make sure that no new plants you add reintroduce it. After the treatment is done do some water changes to clear the chemical from the tank.

As soon as your tank is cycled add lots of Amano shrimp - at least one per 3 gallons, and up to 1 per gallon (you can remove some later). They're great at keeping new tank algae issues at bay.


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## sgtsquiggs (May 13, 2015)

houseofcards said:


> What's the substrate and what are you dosing?


Fluval stratum, with a little flourite black on top to hold it down.



Axelrodi202 said:


> Take it easy with the CO2 - even with no fish, too much can be harmful to the tank (especially to the bacterial population, which serve many important roles beyond nitrification). Do you know your BPS rate?
> 
> Hair algae is usually caused by a short-term imbalance - usually too much light, too many nutrients, or an ammonia spike. But the nasty thing is once it's in your tank; it's in there forever, and usually in a very virulent form, where constant vigilance is required to keep it at bay. Unfortunately it seems to do just fine in conditions that plants thrive in as well.
> 
> ...


BPS is probably 8~10. I flooded it 3 days ago; I've got HC in small bunches everywhere and a small amount of micro sword.

I have one snail so far, hitchhiker trumpet that grew like a weed. It was w/ the hair algae, i assume they're working together.

Was hoping the HC would at least root a bit before I had to deal with algae. It isn't widespread (yet?) I see it on a few of the HC bunches.

I'll ask my LFS about the algaefix.

Here's a fun video of algae and yellowing HC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_UEjcGIQos


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

Hm, I'll admit I'm not sure on the best procedure with running CO2 in a new tank with emersed plants. With submersed plants I generally use a lower rate in the first few days since they're still acclimating and not photosynthesizing vigorously yet. But you could probably get away with less CO2. Heck I run that BPS on my 2-month-old 120 gallon tank. 

From your video it looks like you have a very low plant mass. More than anything else, the starting amount of plant matter is the key to a new tank's success or failure. Get as many plants as you can, whether they're the ones you want or just cheap weedy stems or floaters. You can give away the latter once your tank is more established.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Is it brown hair algae?


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## sgtsquiggs (May 13, 2015)

Axelrodi202 said:


> Hm, I'll admit I'm not sure on the best procedure with running CO2 in a new tank with emersed plants. With submersed plants I generally use a lower rate in the first few days since they're still acclimating and not photosynthesizing vigorously yet. But you could probably get away with less CO2. Heck I run that BPS on my 2-month-old 120 gallon tank.
> 
> From your video it looks like you have a very low plant mass. More than anything else, the starting amount of plant matter is the key to a new tank's success or failure. Get as many plants as you can, whether they're the ones you want or just cheap weedy stems or floaters. You can give away the latter once your tank is more established.


I found some cyano today. I've got a 425gal/h pump with two returns, but I think running the water through the co2 reactor is slowing the water down too much. Also the reactor (ista max mix) isn't dissolving the co2 before it leaves the reactor; i've got 7up water.

I completely forgot about the plant mass to substrate/water ratio. I've got a lot of leafy stems in another tank I can trim into this one. If all else fails I can start over.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

Are you dosing ferts? How long are you running your lights? What is your tap ph and tank ph?


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

I've had bad luck with the Ista reactors - very inefficient in my experience. I'd look into a diffuser or alternative method. Reactors are very tricky to get right from what I've seen. 

Cyanobacteria is also often a result of an imbalanced microbial community and high organics. Like I said before, I'd take it a bit easy on the CO2, and ensure the tank is clean and well-filtered. What filter are you running? I wouldn't know about the Fluval substrate, but if it releases ammonium like the ADA one then frequent water changes will be required in the first few weeks. 
@houseofcards raises a good point - the photoperiod needn't be very long in a new tank as the plants are acclimating and not photosynthesizing vigorously yet.

Now that I look at your video again it looks like it could just be filamentous diatoms, which would be standard for a new tank. I'd try to look at pictures online and see if it's true hair algae. Doesn't look like Spirogyra to me.


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## sgtsquiggs (May 13, 2015)

Axelrodi202 said:


> I've had bad luck with the Ista reactors - very inefficient in my experience. I'd look into a diffuser or alternative method. Reactors are very tricky to get right from what I've seen.
> 
> Cyanobacteria is also often a result of an imbalanced microbial community and high organics. Like I said before, I'd take it a bit easy on the CO2, and ensure the tank is clean and well-filtered. What filter are you running? I wouldn't know about the Fluval substrate, but if it releases ammonium like the ADA one then frequent water changes will be required in the first few weeks.
> @houseofcards raises a good point - the photoperiod needn't be very long in a new tank as the plants are acclimating and not photosynthesizing vigorously yet.
> ...



My tank has a sump in the rear separated by black plexiglass. I use filter socks and a large bag of bio rings. The sump has two intakes (left and right overflow) which eventually drain into the center, where I have a 425gph pump pushing water through the ista and then back into the tank (two nozzles)


I'm toning down the CO2, and I'm lowering my photo period (to ~6 hours).

I have a raised area in the corner of my tank (a hill), and the HC there is pearling!


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

I'm not familiar with sumps (never used one) but sounds like a sufficient setup. I'd consult with some more knowledgeable people though - there have been many times I've assumed some aspect of my equipment is fine when in reality it was lackluster. The most apparent sign of high organics is frequent mulm accumulation and an obvious surface film. 

Also, it may be helpful to run some carbon for the tank's first month, to get rid of any unknown impurities.


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## sgtsquiggs (May 13, 2015)

Organics today

I attached a photo of the sump setup and a photo of stuff growing on the drywood.


I've got a ton of tooth-cup in another tank. Going to move a lot of it into this 40g since it grows like a weed.


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

Yes, more plant mass will definitely help. Stuff it with plants until you have a hard time seeing anything else (without shading your HC of course).


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## sgtsquiggs (May 13, 2015)

Ok so far I've cut the light down to 6 hours a day, cut the CO2 down to ~3 bubbles a second, and I added a bit of tooth-cup. HC is growing and very green except for one or two bunches. The algae/cyano/whatever it actually is hasn't expanded at all, but what's there is still there. It's hardly noticeable in the HC. I plan to leave it alone since it isn't growing and I am sure I'd end up pulling the HC out to remove it. Buying more HC soon to fill in a bit more. Once my driftwood has stopped floating I'm adding weeping moss.

Thanks for the tips @Axelrodi202, I really appreciate it!

Next up is replacing the CO2 reactor. The ista is noisy (grinding sound) and I've got bubbles EVERYWHERE. Planning on building one of Tom Barr's designs (Dual venturi DIY External CO2 reactor - Aquarium Plants - Barr Report) and using a separate pump to cycle it directly into the last chamber of the sump (where the main pump is pumping into the aquarium). This way I will get more water flow because the 425gph pump isn't pushing through a reactor, just directly into the tank.


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

@sgtsquiggs I'm glad I could help. I spent most of my planted tank hobby battling on and off with some sort of hair algae. I've lost many hours and plants to it. 

The key to planted tanks (or anything in life really) is persistence - even Amano espoused this. There were certainly moments when I felt like giving up, but I'm glad I hung in there. Now that I've found some good prevention and management strategies (that aren't pulling out fistfuls of it every few days) I can move on to other parts of the hobby - aquascaping, optimizing fertilizer regimes, etc. Now when something is off for several days, instead of having to clean out gobs of algae I just have some plants that don't look quite as vibrant as they used to. 

Best of your luck with your further plans. Some advice though - absolutely make sure the hair algae is gone before adding moss. Hair algae and moss cannot coexist - inevitably the former will take over the latter. And once the hair algae is in the moss it's almost impossible to remove - even Algaefix may not do the job!


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