# BBA: About to Give Up



## starfire12 (Aug 13, 2009)

Is there BBA on anything else or just the plants. I get BBA on my dirftwood and the tank glass when it gets really bad I either dose excell per the directions on the bottle and if that does not help take everything out and scrub under hot water that will kill it. I have done this before and it usually takes it a while to come back I have never really gotten rid of it completly. There is always a spot or two that I miss.


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## rlswaney73 (Jun 11, 2011)

my drop checker is yellow almost the entire lighting period

How are you injecting the CO2? Does the CO2 turn on before the lighting period begins? two weeks per co2 fill sounds inefficient... 

How much circulation? Lighting schedule and type? Are you following EI? 

sorry this mostly more questions for you.... :icon_roll


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## guerdonian (Jan 14, 2010)

starfire12 said:


> Is there BBA on anything else or just the plants. I get BBA on my dirftwood and the tank glass when it gets really bad I either dose excell per the directions on the bottle and if that does not help take everything out and scrub under hot water that will kill it. I have done this before and it usually takes it a while to come back I have never really gotten rid of it completly. There is always a spot or two that I miss.


Its everywhere...again, driftwood, glass, intake, heater, substrate, plants. During the first nuking I dunked/sprayed the driftwood and all plants. Scrubbed the daylights out of the tank, removed infected substrate, and bleached the heater, intake, output, dropchecker, CO2 deffuser, etc..
Didn't work.



rlswaney73 said:


> my drop checker is yellow almost the entire lighting period
> 
> How are you injecting the CO2? Does the CO2 turn on before the lighting period begins? two weeks per co2 fill sounds inefficient...
> 
> ...


I fugure there would be plenty more :icon_smil

This is one of those hobbies that my wife already considers a "money sink" so as a result I am trying to cut corners. I am using a ghetto needle valve paintball canister setup that is constant flow with no selonoid. Co2 is run through a glass and ceramic diffuser. 

Lighting is 3 hours in the morning 5 hours at night, this was due to many battles with other algae telling me to reduce my photo-period. I have LED's in the front, and back corner with an extra "regular" strip light in the middle with plant bulbs. Can't think of what type this is but its not any of the newer high output bulbs. The main LED light is this: http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=4391507&clickid=prod_cs

I have an older version of the Fluval 305 Canister Filter, and the airstone for circulation. Is there a number you were looking for? or some sort of measurment? The output is pointed slightly up for surface agitation. 

I dont know what "EI" is so probably not following that.

Here is a pic of the tanks beauty prior to its demise from BBA, now it looks pretty pathetic.


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## 5BodyBlade (Feb 8, 2011)

I did all the usual things also. Steady co2, manual removal, spot tretment etc. and it kept returning. I added a second 50% WC a week while continuing treatment and now I've been clean for months. I've gone back to 1 WC a week and normal maintenance. Might be worth a shot. I know its frustrating. Hang in there!


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## livingword26 (Oct 28, 2010)

Running 2 days every 2 weeks without co2 will definatly be a big contributor to your BBA problem. Get an extra tank. You said you reduced your lighting. What was it, and what is it now, Please be specific in describing your lights. If you are going to dose ferts, you either need to follow a program:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/fertilizers-water-parameters/21944-_dosing-regimes_.html

or test your nitrates and phosphates and keep them stable. Then you can adust your micro's to be in line with them. Also, what are the dimensions of your tank, and what kind of ferts are you using?


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## livingword26 (Oct 28, 2010)

Also, I agree with the 50% weekly water change rule when dosing ferts.


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## kribkeeper888 (Oct 8, 2011)

Im not sure if this helps but I thought i might throw my input in. my dad had a baaad case of BBA that was killing a lot of java ferns he has in his tank. But he didnt have any othe kind of algea. Anyway he basically starved his SAE untill it decided that BBA tasted good LOL now it loves to eat it


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## guerdonian (Jan 14, 2010)

livingword26 said:


> Running 2 days every 2 weeks without co2 will definatly be a big contributor to your BBA problem. Get an extra tank. You said you reduced your lighting. What was it, and what is it now, Please be specific in describing your lights. If you are going to dose ferts, you either need to follow a program:
> 
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/fertilizers-water-parameters/21944-_dosing-regimes_.html
> 
> or test your nitrates and phosphates and keep them stable. Then you can adust your micro's to be in line with them. Also, what are the dimensions of your tank, and what kind of ferts are you using?



I would rather not have to drop over $150 on a 5lb fancy solenoid CO2 setup, especially since we just bought a house. I can get an additional paintball canister, but i am seriously contemplating dropping down to low tech during the move, since i will have to break down the tank anyways. This tank has been cool but required a lot more care and maintenance than i expected. 

I was trying to run "medium tech" if there is such a thing, by having lower light plants that are more durable. I have two IKEA Lack LED lights in the back corner, the LED strip in the front that i posted a link of earlier, and this: http://www.petco.com/product/111972/Zoo-Med-T-8-Flora-Sun-Max-Plant-Growth-Fluorescent-Bulb.aspx, 18" size. I reduced the photoperiod because of BGA, greenspot, and the start of hair algea. This helped solve all these algae problems. 

I do not have a phosphate test kit, but I did test the nitrates regularly to get the dosing for that. Currently I have been using Flourish Nitrogen, because i used up my dry N03. The phosphates, and trace are still dry ferts. 

I guess i tried to walk the line between "high tech" and "low tech" and am getting bit for it. I don't have the motivation for weekly water changes, daily testing and dosing, hundreds of dollars worth of equipment. At first i thought i had it figured out, as the tank was spectacular for about 4 months. I conquered BGA, Hair, and green spot, but BBA is the nemesis i can't defeat.

I think i am going to drop to "low tech" during the move.


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## livingword26 (Oct 28, 2010)

I didn't say anything about buying fancy co2 equipment, I said get another tank. The fertilizer schedule on the link I posted is a proven method. There are a few people, such as Tom Barr and Hoppy (on this forum) who have pioneered the fertilizer and lighting parts of this hobby. People who want to create their own methods, will always end up overcome with algea, in my opinion. I know, I was one of them. I spent years taking bits and peices of what people said, trying to make my tanks work, always failing. In the end, I followed ei dosing, and lowered my lighting, and finally overcame the algae. If you are going to dose ferts, I don't think you will succeed without a large weekly water change. I recently have decided that I wanted to cut down on maintanance also, and have changed over to low tech. There are some specific things you need to do to make them work also, but they are easy. Research them and you will do fine. Also, you are not dosing any real Potassium, without the kno3.


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## rlswaney73 (Jun 11, 2011)

A better CO2 injecting method would be a reactor, (ista max mix), I know there are lots of DIY reactors out there but its around 10 bucks... and if your co2 is on 24x7 then you could reduce the flow to about 1 BPS 

I would take the air stone out, your losing CO2 because of it. watch your BPS, would hate for you to gas any fish you have when/if the air stone is removed.

Edit - should have asked, is the air stone only running at night?

even if you don't go with a reactor now, removing the air stone and sticking with the glass diffuser could make a big difference...

Sorry I don't know much on LED(s) but if this gives you Med to High light you should subscribe to and follow dosing method.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/fertilizers-water-parameters/21944-_dosing-regimes_.html

+1, on the 50% WC weekly

I know it might seem frustrating but a few small changes can bring big results... no reason to throw in the towel but it is higher maintenance then a low light tank.


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## guerdonian (Jan 14, 2010)

livingword26 said:


> I didn't say anything about buying fancy co2 equipment, I said get another tank. The fertilizer schedule on the link I posted is a proven method. There are a few people, such as Tom Barr and Hoppy (on this forum) who have pioneered the fertilizer and lighting parts of this hobby. People who want to create their own methods, will always end up overcome with algea, in my opinion. I know, I was one of them. I spent years taking bits and peices of what people said, trying to make my tanks work, always failing. In the end, I followed ei dosing, and lowered my lighting, and finally overcame the algae. If you are going to dose ferts, I don't think you will succeed without a large weekly water change. I recently have decided that I wanted to cut down on maintanance also, and have changed over to low tech. There are some specific things you need to do to make them work also, but they are easy. Research them and you will do fine. Also, you are not dosing any real Potassium, without the kno3.


You may have hit the root cause, I didn't even think about potassium, that is one thing that has changed, is i went from the dry KNO3 to the wet nitrate only. 

I am 95% sure i am going to go to low tech. Do you have any links or resources to get me started on this "down grade" conversion process? it would be helpful.



rlswaney73 said:


> A better CO2 injecting method would be a reactor, (ista max mix), I know there are lots of DIY reactors out there but its around 10 bucks... and if your co2 is on 24x7 then you could reduce the flow to about 1 BPS
> 
> I would take the air stone out, your losing CO2 because of it. watch your BPS, would hate for you to gas any fish you have when/if the air stone is removed.
> 
> ...


Yea, I think low light is going to have to be my new route. I might have fiddled with high tech a little longer if we weren't watching the budget so tightly; at the moment we have all the stuff to buy relating to home ownership, so for example a lawnmower takes precedence over fish tank. Maybe i will remove the air-stone, but when I did this the water movement reduced, and i had gasping issues overnight with the fish. Maybe i will put it on a reverse timer just to be on when lights are off.


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## livingword26 (Oct 28, 2010)

Potassium can definitely be a problem but fluctuating co2 is listed as the main cause for bba. Your lights are going to be difficult to assess. I would make a post in the lighting section and ask for some help in determining your lighting level, and how to position them for a low tech set up.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

BBA starts with high light and not enough CO2 for that amount of light. When your lights sit on top of the tank, the light intensity will always be much higher near the water surface than it is near the substrate. I notice that you have plants on the wood pieces, so the plants are closer to the light than the substrate is. You can probably reduce the light more and not affect those plants, but eventually your crypts will end up with too little light.

It would help a lot to have your light hanging above the tank a foot or so. That greatly reduces the maximum light intensity near the top of the tank. But it takes a brighter light than if it were sitting on top of the tank.

I did what you are thinking about doing - going to low light. I have no regrets at all, and very few algae problems. I do plan to use DIY CO2, to help the plants grow a bit better with the low light, and I will use a two bottle system, changing one per week, so my CO2 level won't fluctuate so much. I still need to do weekly water changes and tank cleaning, so it isn't a plug-it-in-and-forget-it operation. But, if it was, would it still be a hobby?


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## livingword26 (Oct 28, 2010)

What are the dimensions of your tank.


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## guerdonian (Jan 14, 2010)

Hoppy said:


> BBA starts with high light and not enough CO2 for that amount of light. When your lights sit on top of the tank, the light intensity will always be much higher near the water surface than it is near the substrate. I notice that you have plants on the wood pieces, so the plants are closer to the light than the substrate is. You can probably reduce the light more and not affect those plants, but eventually your crypts will end up with too little light.
> 
> It would help a lot to have your light hanging above the tank a foot or so. That greatly reduces the maximum light intensity near the top of the tank. But it takes a brighter light than if it were sitting on top of the tank.
> 
> I did what you are thinking about doing - going to low light. I have no regrets at all, and very few algae problems. I do plan to use DIY CO2, to help the plants grow a bit better with the low light, and I will use a two bottle system, changing one per week, so my CO2 level won't fluctuate so much. I still need to do weekly water changes and tank cleaning, so it isn't a plug-it-in-and-forget-it operation. But, if it was, would it still be a hobby?


Good info. So for when I drop to low tech during my move, should i re-nuke the tank to kill the BBA? 
Then do i just reduce lighting output, and no longer use ferts? Is some CO2 still necessary? I guess the only two types of tanks i have had are either lots of plants, or just a couple anubis to where it was barely planted. This will be somewhere in between. 

I plan on getting rid of the crypts, and substituting in more rocks. The Fisidins is permanent on the log, so i am going to just let that do its thing, and maybe pull out a couple of the Anubis and put them in my fluval edge i plan to re-start. 



livingword26 said:


> What are the dimensions of your tank.


Not positive, I can take them tonight.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

I would get a PAR meter, preferably by borrowing one, and use that to adjust the lighting so you get around 30 micromols of PAR at the substrate. I would thoroughly clean the substrate before reinstalling it. I would use bleach to clean all of the plastic hoses, wires, pipes, etc. that are in the water. The wood I would clean with Excel, or hydrogen peroxide, to kill any BBA on it - it should all turn red or white. Scrub off as much of it as you can.

If the substrate is fertile, like MTS or ADA Aqusoil, you could stop dosing the water, at least for awhile. Otherwise, I would follow the dosing method described in the fertilizing forum sticky, using about half or less of the recommended dosage amounts. CO2 will not be essential, but if you keep some going, so you have 10-20 ppm, the plants will have a better chance of growing well. As with any planted tank, the more growing plants you have in the tank the better and the less likely that algae will take over.


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## Aquachic (Apr 6, 2011)

Has anyone else had this experience? I tried LED lighting but that caused some horrible algae issues in my tank. I ended up switching back to T5HO bulbs and the algae situation finally came under control. I think if the LED isn't designed for plant growing then you end up with a big issue. Are these LED lights specifically for growing plants?


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## livingword26 (Oct 28, 2010)

Aquachic said:


> Has anyone else had this experience? I tried LED lighting but that caused some horrible algae issues in my tank. I ended up switching back to T5HO bulbs and the algae situation finally came under control. I think if the LED isn't designed for plant growing then you end up with a big issue. Are these LED lights specifically for growing plants?


Personally I think it is more about par, than color spectrum. If the LED lights you used, were brighter than the T5's, then that could be enough to cause algae problems, depending on your co2, and fertilizers.


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