# 75g North American Natives



## knm<>< (Mar 18, 2010)

*Current pic Feb 2015*









*Jan 2015*









It's been a few years since I kept a planted tank due to the demands of military life. Anyway, I picked up a new 75 gallon reef ready tank last week and I'm pretty much planning to make everything else. Details below:

*Tank*
Marineland 75 gallon Corner Flow with dual bulkheads

*Stand*
DIY "primitive" stand. This will be 2x4 framing with reclaimed pallet wood exterior and doors. It will also have hidden removable side panels for access options. This is currently in progress, pics below.

*Filtration*
[STRIKE]DIY[/STRIKE] *Wet/Dry filter,* still researching my options on this. I've seen many designs but my space is limited, so I probably won't be doing the plastic tub/plastic drawer unit model.

*Lighting*
Ecoxotic E series 48"
[STRIKE]2x AquaticLife T5HO (4x 48W bulbs)[/STRIKE] I guess I lied, these obviously aren't DIY, but the mount will be.

*Substrate*
[STRIKE]Dirted, capped with play sand or whatever else I decide when I get that far.[/STRIKE] Pool Filter Sand, in an effort to save money more than anything else. I don't plan on going hi-tech, even though I do have a pressurized CO2 system from my old 50 gallon tank.

*Hard Scape*
Standard DW and [STRIKE]rocks, maybe slate, maybe[/STRIKE] river rocks.

I have not even put thought into plants and fish. It will be low-tech, so the usual flora suspects I suppose. As for fauna, maybe rainbows and a big school of Pygmy Cory. Well, what do you know, put some thought into it.

Stand pics:


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## gene4christ (Oct 25, 2008)

Looking great . keep us posted !


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## knm<>< (Mar 18, 2010)

Finished the doors and test fit the tank.


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## BHolmes (Aug 23, 2012)

Nice stand KNM! I like the idea of removable side panels.


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## knm<>< (Mar 18, 2010)

Thanks! I haven't finished the side panels yet. I need more pallets.


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## Hetzer (Sep 23, 2012)

that is very neat, esp the doors. Well done!


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## knm<>< (Mar 18, 2010)

Went to HD today and picked up the MGOCPM and play sand that will be my substrate. I also picked up some garden edging in hopes of containing the MGOCP to certain areas of the tank. It's too tall right now so I will have to cut it down, probably in half.

I went ahead and picked up some egg crate material to help with placement of my DW as well. The DW is currently soaking in a 20 gallon trash can in my garage. By the looks of it, I have a couple weeks to go as far as leaching is concerned. It is already heavy enough to sink without being soaked through. The egg crate will make sure it doesnt shift after it's been in the tank a while.

The biggest surprise purchase of the day is my wet/dry filter. My original plan was to build my own out of a spare tank I have stored at my mother-in-law's house. However, while visiting a local saltwater shop that is about to stock freshwater fish and supplies (BTW, it's going to be a good one. If you're in northern VA, check out the thread about it New LFS in Springfield, VA). I was talking to the owner about my DIY* wet/dry filter* idea when, out of the blue, he offered to sell me a used one he had at the shop *for $50!* I couldn't pass that up.

Spoils of the day:









Several large pieces of DW soaking:


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## knm<>< (Mar 18, 2010)

Hetzer said:


> that is very neat, esp the doors. Well done!


Thank you. I'm not sure I like the trim around the door.


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## knm<>< (Mar 18, 2010)

I said to myself, after reading all the posts where people got fish before the tank was ready, "I'm not going to be that guy". Well, today, I was that guy. I picked up 10 juvenile Corydoras pygmaeus. They had 20 in stock, so at least I didn't hoard them. Besides, they have to temporarily live with my white clouds until the 75 is ready. I don't think 20 of them would be happy in there. They are all about 1/2" long right now. I've heard that they are shy, but I guess they are in exploration mode at the moment. They also keep going up and schooling with the minnows. These little guys are so cool!


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## knm<>< (Mar 18, 2010)

*Update - Pics!*

Time for an update!

A lot has changed with my plans for this tank. Most importantly, I decided to do a single species native tank, Pumpkinseed Sunfish. I'm still undecided on sticking with native plants only. I'm leaning toward yes as I learn about the options. I may not go with the Virginia biotope like I wanted, but opt to go with a more broad North America native theme for the plants.

I decided to forego the MGOCPM in this tank after getting some advice on the NANFA forum. It seems my fauna like to dig in th substrate to make nests and they will undoubtedly make a mess of the soil. I went with pool filter sand.


*NEW SINCE LAST UPDATE:*

1. I got some static cling window tint and finished the background.

2. Finished plumbing the overflow and wet/dry filter, got loofahs for biomedia and some cut-to-fit filter pads. Tested the system, all is a go.

3. Finished the scape and filled the tank.





























Please feel free to comment on any changes you think I should make to the hardscape. I am always open for suggestions. _Remember, I'm doing rather large native sunfish. They get territorial and need breaks in the sightline of the tank so they can get away from each other when need be_. That is what determines my placemet of the hardscape and plants when I get them.


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## NotCousteau (Sep 25, 2014)

That's an awesome aquascape!


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## knm<>< (Mar 18, 2010)

NotCousteau said:


> That's an awesome aquascape!


Thanks! Do you think it's a good environment for the pumpkinseeds? I'm planning on 5 of them.


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## NotCousteau (Sep 25, 2014)

I've never kept them, but I'm sure they'd be happy in that tank.


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## knm<>< (Mar 18, 2010)

I scouted a pretty large creek near the house today with my ultralight tackle and a small jig. I caught a bunch of red breasted sunfish and one green sunfish. I didn't catch any pumpkinseeds. The tank cycle should be done this weekend, so I might just go with whatever I can pull out of the creek. According to the department of game and inland fisheries, I can collect 5 specimens per day, but because they are game fish, I have to get them with rod and reel. Judging by today's action, that shouldn't be a problem. I'm thinking two red breasted and 2 green. If I'm lucky enough to catch a pumpkinseed, I'll bring it home too.


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## vanish (Apr 21, 2014)

Do NOT put green sunfish in your tank unless you want to have one fish in the tank. They are they meanest sons a guns...

How would I know? This was about 3 years ago:


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## knm<>< (Mar 18, 2010)

Okay, I'm still hoping for pumpkinseeds, going to try another creek today. If I can't find any, I'll go with the redbreasts


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## NotCousteau (Sep 25, 2014)

Don't give up on the pumpkinseeds! Good luck.


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## knm<>< (Mar 18, 2010)

Thanks, blanked again today. I tried another creek and caught nothing. Then I tried Accotink Bay off of the Potomac River and caught three small yellow perch. Not exactly what I was hoping for. It's supposed to rain tomorrow, so no fishing for me. This weekend, I'll try and catch a pair of small redbreasts and then keep trying to find the pumpkinseeds.

Does anyone know of a good spot to catch them in Northern VA?


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## knm<>< (Mar 18, 2010)

I collected the fish over the weekend and stocked the tank. I also found some fissidens and what I believe is willow moss in the creek where the fish were caught. This week I'll be getting some vals from a forum member (thanks frog111) that will eventually fill in the center to back left. Here are a few pictures of collecting and the tank shots. I purposefully stopped the driftwood soak early to allow some tannins to leech into the water. I'm hoping this relieves some anxiety for the wild caught fish.


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## vanish (Apr 21, 2014)

That looks quite nice!


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## Adrand (Feb 13, 2012)

Nice job. I love the native tanks. Someday I will do one.


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## AquaAurora (Jul 10, 2013)

You lucky s.o.b.! I'd love to find some wild fissidens instead of paying an arm and a leg for a decent portion (and hoping it doesn't freeze in shipping) :c Mind me asking where in North Va you are? I use to live near the top of the state.


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## HybridHerp (May 24, 2012)

Did you catch the fish via hook? Not sure what I'm looking at in the pic where you're holding the fish.


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## Mariostg (Sep 6, 2014)

knm<>< said:


> Thank you. I'm not sure I like the trim around the door.


Hey, my DIY cabinet has been up for months, tank up and running, but still no door


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## knm<>< (Mar 18, 2010)

vanish said:


> That looks quite nice!





Adrand said:


> Nice job. I love the native tanks. Someday I will do one.


Thank you both. It is easy to keep natives. You can purchase them from fish farms or from other native keepers just as you can buy tropicals. I prefer to catch my own, which requires you looking up the laws in your area for doing so and making sure you know how to safely catch, transport, and acclimate the new fish.



AquaAurora said:


> You lucky s.o.b.! I'd love to find some wild fissidens instead of paying an arm and a leg for a decent portion (and hoping it doesn't freeze in shipping) :c Mind me asking where in North Va you are? I use to live near the top of the state.


Not a problem, I linve in the Alexandria/Mount Vernon area. I couldn't believe my luck either! I knew there was a ton of moss in the water, but never imagined it was fissidens.



HybridHerp said:


> Did you catch the fish via hook? Not sure what I'm looking at in the pic where you're holding the fish.


Yes, I used #12 hooks and 2lb test. My bait was half of a Berkley Gulp Maggot in natural white. The fish you see me holding is a Pumpkinseed Sunfish (Lepomis gibbosus). In my opinion, they are the most striking of the sunfish family along with the Orange Spotted Sunfish (Lepomis humilis), but unfortunately there are no orange spotted in my area.


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## NJAquaBarren (Sep 16, 2009)

Nice. Great scape, great idea.


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## HybridHerp (May 24, 2012)

Isn't hooking them not that great for them? I've never collected from the wild tbh


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## knm<>< (Mar 18, 2010)

They heal pretty quickly, especially if you use a barbless hook or at least flatten the barb with pliers.


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## rajah_22 (Dec 12, 2013)

This tank is fantastic! 

I had a tank in California for a little while that had baby largemouth bass and green sunfish in it. Those things have a heck of an appetite. They were super fun fish and attacked anything I dropped in the tank. I caught them all fly fishing with barbless hooks.


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## knm<>< (Mar 18, 2010)

rajah_22 said:


> This tank is fantastic!
> 
> I had a tank in California for a little while that had baby largemouth bass and green sunfish in it. Those things have a heck of an appetite. They were super fun fish and attacked anything I dropped in the tank. I caught them all fly fishing with barbless hooks.


Yeah, they do enjoy a good meal don't they?


Guck said:


> Hey, my DIY cabinet has been up for months, tank up and running, but still no door


Nice, I still haven't finished the side panels. I've been too lazy to go find decent pallets.


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## Couesfanatic (Sep 28, 2009)

Keep us updated. This looks great. My only concerns are if a 75 is big enough to support those fish when they get a little bigger. I know they stay relatively small, but it looks like 8 or so in there.


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## knm<>< (Mar 18, 2010)

I have plans for that. For now, I do a lot of water changes.


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## knm<>< (Mar 18, 2010)

Vals came today from frog111. What do you think? I don't know how fast they will spread in here, but I hope they thicken up. I planted them with of bunch of osmocote+ root tabs I made. It takes entirely too long to make those by the way. Plus, I think I'll be set for root tabs at least as long as I live, unless someone wants to buy some from me.

Here ya go, sorry it's blurry, I didn't think it was that bad until I saw it in photobucket. I'm too lazy to try again anyway; it's Beer:30.










Here's a rare sighting of my Black Bullhead Catfish:


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## knm<>< (Mar 18, 2010)

Just in case anyone is wondering:

Fauna:

4 - Lepomis gibbosus (Pumpkinseed)
2 - Lepomis microlophus (Redear)
1 - Lepomis cyanellus (Green)
4 - Gambusia holbrooki (Eastern Mosquitofish)
1 - Ameiurus melas (Black Bullhead Catfish)

The green is a temporary resident. I'm debating putting up a tank just for him or giving him to a friend who wants to replace an Oscar. He is one good looking fish.


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

If you go back to that stream you may find some of this.
It can be grown on the wood that sticks out of the water.


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## knm<>< (Mar 18, 2010)

You know, I was just thinking about that, and I do believe there is some there. There's a stem plant out in the middle of the creek that I haven't been able to get to as well. I need to break out my waders. Next update, you will see both in there.

EDIT: It might not be the same moss, but it is growing above the water line.


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## Squrl888 (Oct 3, 2014)

Your tank looks great! I really like the way you scaped it. I like all the open space for swimming and the nice arrangement of rocks and driftwood. The Vals and the moss are a nice green touch. Cool!


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## rajah_22 (Dec 12, 2013)

I am predicting that those mosquitofish will end up in the stomach of one of the sunfish before too long... I could be wrong, but I've seen them hammer mosquitofish before.


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## knm<>< (Mar 18, 2010)

That was the plan. The pumpkinseeds chased them around for about 5 minutes when I dumped them in. Since then, nothing, they even feed together.


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## jerrytheplater (Apr 11, 2007)

Nice tank, but don't you think your sunfish will uproot all the plants when they decide to spawn for you? The sunfish pits I see are in the shallow water without any plants in sight.


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## EndlerGame (Oct 19, 2013)

jerrytheplater said:


> Nice tank, but don't you think your sunfish will uproot all the plants when they decide to spawn for you? The sunfish pits I see are in the shallow water without any plants in sight.


You think they'll spawn in his 75g? I'd think wild caught sunfish might need pretty specific conditions to spawn, but maybe all those needs are met in this tank. I wonder if there'd even be a viable pair in that tank with those different species? Perhaps they can interbreed pretty easily?

Also, I'm kinda laughing at the guy who was asking about the fishing hook...must never have been fishing before? These types of fish are caught like this all the time, and kept (though usually for food rather than fauna, haha) or released back to the wild. They're mouths are very tough and resilient...think like a kissing gourami's mouth or a big cichlid.

Anyway, I really like the tank. It looks great, seems very natural and comfortable for the fish. Even that shy bullhead! I like it alot. I'll be helping someone set up a native tank soon, so this is some good inspiration and guidance.


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## knm<>< (Mar 18, 2010)

There should be enough room at the front of the tank for that, we'll see. If they uproot them, I can move them to another tank or replant and hope they don't uproot them again too soon.


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## iadubber (Jan 23, 2012)

I love native tanks! Yours looks great and I'll be following along


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## jerrytheplater (Apr 11, 2007)

knm<>< said:


> There should be enough room at the front of the tank for that, we'll see. If they uproot them, I can move them to another tank or replant and hope they don't uproot them again too soon.


I don't want you to take my post as a criticism, just wondering. I've seen the pits sunfish dig and some have been 18" in diameter at least. They don't want plants around to block their view of danger.

I kept a sunfish I hooked in a 10 gallon tank for a short while when I was a kid. Don't remember what happened to it.

My wife and I were in Germany a few years ago visiting our daughter while she was stationed over there. We visited a LFS and they were horrified when I told them I've eaten sunnies. They had them as juvies for sale. Don't remember which species.


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## dpod (Sep 16, 2014)

You're gonna love the catfish once it gets comfortable enough to come out. I've kept smaller (2-6") brown bullheads and they are a lot of fun as they cruise around. They will chow on anything that fits into their mouth, though; mine would try to steal food from the turtles and just get their whole heads :O, and a small one choked to death on a nightcrawler bigger than itself. If the sunfish don't eat the mosquitofish, the cat will certainly try! Still, love the tank!


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## flight50 (Apr 17, 2012)

Hey knm, how's that window film working out for you. I am thinking about getting it for my 90g tank that you'd been commenting on. I will be backlighting mine though. If you shine a light in the back of it, how much are you seeing behind the film. Any cords or piping show thru the film?


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## xxUnRaTeDxxRkOxx (Jul 12, 2011)

Green Sunfish aggression can be put into check with a couple of them in a tank, I've kept Green Sunfish on and off for years and never had an aggression problem with them. Might be because I always had 3-6 in a tank together, in my opinion keeping Green Sunfish is a bit like keeping Mbuna African cichlids, if you kind of overstock the tank the aggression goes away!!!

I love the Pumpkinseed Sunfish you have!!!


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## knm<>< (Mar 18, 2010)

flight50 said:


> Hey knm, how's that window film working out for you. I am thinking about getting it for my 90g tank that you'd been commenting on. I will be backlighting mine though. If you shine a light in the back of it, how much are you seeing behind the film. Any cords or piping show thru the film?


The film is great! I tried shining a light through it, but it doesn't come through very well unless you hold the light right up to the glass. It actually gives the light a green tint. I'm using 5% tint, you might want to try 15-20% if you want to backlight it. No cords show through and all of my plumbing is in the overflow so you can't see it anyway.



xxUnRaTeDxxRkOxx said:


> Green Sunfish aggression can be put into check with a couple of them in a tank, I've kept Green Sunfish on and off for years and never had an aggression problem with them. Might be because I always had 3-6 in a tank together, in my opinion keeping Green Sunfish is a bit like keeping Mbuna African cichlids, if you kind of overstock the tank the aggression goes away!!!
> 
> I love the Pumpkinseed Sunfish you have!!!


Thanks, I love the p-seeds as well. I haven't had an ounce of aggression out of the green. He picked a territory behind the big DW on the right and all the other fish seem to respect it. The biggest p-seed is actually the most aggressive fish in the tank, especially at feeding time. If it sees other fish get food it will chase them off. Even after all the food is gone, he'll keep chasing them away from the circulation pump where I drop food in to spread it out.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

Nice tank. Won't the catfish get huge?

Also, no darters?


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## knm<>< (Mar 18, 2010)

mistergreen said:


> Nice tank. Won't the catfish get huge?
> 
> Also, no darters?
> 
> ...


I assume they will, but so far they haven't grown much at all. I have someone lined up to put them in a large pond when the time comes. I think darters need a river tank with a lot of flow. 

I thought about a darter tank down the road with a 40b and a river manifold system, but I don't want another tank at the moment (okay, yes I do, but I don't want to maintain another one right now), three is plenty. Also, those are a little harder to catch and I don't even know if they are in the creek where I got my fish. 

By the way, I will be getting the 40b at the dollar per gallon sale after Christmas and storing it until I'm comfortable taking on another tank. I'm also getting a 10 gallon tank and glass lid to replace the Home Depot bucket currently holding my top off water for this tank. I love that wonderful yet horrible dollar per gallon sale!


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

I found darters in slow moving estuaries/ creek to a river. It doesn't need to be a high flow tank.

You can catch them with a net.


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## flight50 (Apr 17, 2012)

knm<>< said:


> The film is great! I tried shining a light through it, but it doesn't come through very well unless you hold the light right up to the glass. It actually gives the light a green tint. I'm using 5% tint, you might want to try 15-20% if you want to backlight it. No cords show through and all of my plumbing is in the overflow so you can't see it anyway.


Sweet. That's a huge help. I have been trying to find ways to backlight for months now. Light painting nor frosting the glass with glass paints just isn't working in my favor. I remember seeing you post in a thread in regards to covering the back of a tank and that you did window tinting. But I never followed up until now. I purchased some 2.5% yesterday from Amazon as an impulse buy thinking that I need the darkest possible but it sounds like I will be going to Lowes or Home Depot for that 15-20% tint. If you had to get that close to the glass, there is no way I can go with the 2.5% for backlighting. I can use it on my 125g growout tank since it won't have backlighting. Your tank looks real clean with the window tint. In your post #19, the light that does shine of the tint looks pretty good. It has a slight gradient to the top of the tint and it makes your scene work for your setup.


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## knm<>< (Mar 18, 2010)

Not much to update at the moment. I'm just letting the tank settle in and haven't done much but add some rough looking Ludwigia repens in hopes it will like the conditions and rebound in there. 

A treat: I finally got a passable pic of a bullhead.


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## Learner (Dec 19, 2011)

love the aquascape........natives rock!


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## knm<>< (Mar 18, 2010)

A while back, I placed a couple small strands of the moss I found growing submerged in the creek (I actually think it's Java moss based on how unruly it is underwater). You can see how it has grown and how different it looks immersed on the log. For comparison, I took some new strands and placed them to the left. You can see how the immersed moss grew more compact and dense than the fully submerged moss. I'm going to leave the new strands there to fill in that side.

If you look closely, you can see little stalks growing from the immersed moss. Is that it's way of putting out spores? I can't find any pictures of this online.

Sorry for the glare, the e-series is pretty bright even on 60%!


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## AquaAurora (Jul 10, 2013)

Yes that a spore stock, just look up "moss spore" get plenty of images (all be it terrestrial moss, but emmersed moss that otherwise aquatic can do it to).
Look forward to seeing the terrarium build btw.


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## knm<>< (Mar 18, 2010)

AquaAurora said:


> Yes that a spore stock, just look up "moss spore" get plenty of images.


Well, duh... that would have been smart.



AquaAurora said:


> Look forward to seeing the terrarium build btw.


Me too, I'm really excited about it, $17!! Oh, I added some of the plants to my riparium too. I'll update that tomorrow when the lights come back on.


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## AquaAurora (Jul 10, 2013)

knm<>< said:


> Well, duh... that would have been smart.
> 
> 
> 
> Me too, I'm really excited about it, $17!! Oh, I added some of the plants to my riparium too. I'll update that tomorrow when the lights come back on.


I know you lucky sob! BTW Is is glass or acrylic? Look forward to more riparium photos ^^ I also stuffed some plants in my 20g riparium yesterday.


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## knm<>< (Mar 18, 2010)

It's all glass with mesh top that I will replace with glass I think; riparium pics later today.


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## mesohorny (Nov 13, 2014)

i'm absolutely in love with this tank! between the reclaimed pallet wood stand, native stock, and hardscape, you are a man after my own heart.


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## knm<>< (Mar 18, 2010)

Thanks mesohorny, I really enjoy the native fish, but I am considering planting non-native flora in here. The vals just aren't cutting it for me. I'd like to cover the driftwood in multiple anubias variations. I haven't convinced myself yet though.


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## Alexp08 (Oct 14, 2014)

Can we get a updated pic of the whole tank?


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## knm<>< (Mar 18, 2010)

Alexp08 said:


> Can we get a updated pic of the whole tank?


I'm about to do a big update on the whole tank, probably tomorrow night. I will update pics then. Things aren't going as smoothly as I'd hoped, but overall okay. 

I hope you don't mind waiting another day. I'll charge my DSLR battery and hopefully get decent shots.


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## Alexp08 (Oct 14, 2014)

no thats fine. i stumbled onto this thread and was very interested as i have been wanting to start up a native american tank


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## knm<>< (Mar 18, 2010)

Allright, time for an update of the whole tank. 

I've been dealing with algae outbreaks, first hair, then blue green, then diatoms, and recently a reddish looking one that I'm not sure of. The hair algae went away on its own. For the diatoms, I enlisted a pair of black mollies who have been happily munching away for a few days now, even picking at the red stuff. The blue green algae went away when I turned down the light intensity from 75 to 65 percent and then again to 60 percent.

Plants - *1*. Fissidens does not do well in here for some reason. There is plenty of flow, but it just doesn't want to grow and actually keeps detaching from the rocks it came on. *2.* Java moss grow unruly and I keep having to trim it. I put some on the wood above the surface and it thrived. I've recently wrapped the whole piece where it comes out of the water hoping it will take and cover the whole thing eventually. *3.* My vals are spreading, but only growing about a foot tall. All the original foliage has melted off and it is growing surprisingly slowly. *4.* ludwigia repens has recovered from its pitiful state when I got it. Another slow grower in here, but healthy. It took some time to get it to stay in the sand because the catfish like to dig around it.

Fish - the green sunfish died from something I've never seen before. He got a huge lump on his side that eventually popped and made a huge open wound (didn't see any worms or parasites). It eventually killed him, but no other fish showed signs of what happened to him. My biggest pumpkinseed got really aggressive, constantly chasing and biting everyone else. I rehomed him to a buddy with a single Oscar in a 55 gallon tank. He wanted to sell the Oscar back to the LFS before it outgrew his tank and plans to keep the pumpkinseed as the only resident. Will he actually do it, don't know, but should be okay either way.

I know I promised a DSLR full tank pic, but I forgot to get it out and charge the battery. My cell phone camera is not working either, so you get a crappy iPad photo...lol, sorry.


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## Alexp08 (Oct 14, 2014)

That tank look awesome! I really like that its a native fish tank. well done!


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## knm<>< (Mar 18, 2010)

Alexp08 said:


> That tank look awesome! I really like that its a native fish tank. well done!


Thank you.


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## navarro1950 (Jul 25, 2014)

Really great tank. I live in southern Louisiana and the sunfish are in every freshwater river and canal we fish, but here we call them perch and even dinner.


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## knm<>< (Mar 18, 2010)

Yep, they are everywhere up here as well. It's fun to fish for them and try to find specific species in streams around your area. It's a really good way to get connected to the outdoors, which is something I love to do.


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## JDS1212 (Mar 18, 2012)

Do you still have the dirt capped with sand? If so your going to have problems down the line. when the pumpkin seed starts to dig. your going to have a mess on your hands. plus when your bull head gets bigger it will uproot your plants.the only thing that has worked for me in the past are mosses and amazon swords. those big sunfish are destructive.


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## knm<>< (Mar 18, 2010)

I never did use the dirt in this tank. I talked about it in a later post. Maybe I should update the stats in the first post to reflect the changes I made.

As for the cats, they already uproot the ludwigia, but the vals have held their ground. I'm going to rehome the cats before they get large enough to rescape on their own...lol. for now though, I'm enjoying them.

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## philipraposo1982 (Mar 6, 2014)

yeah pumpkin seeds can be mean as hell. Worse that any cichlid imo. They also can get up to 10" long. Not really ideal for a 75g.


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## JDS1212 (Mar 18, 2012)

If your interested in different type of natives you can get them here.

http://jonahsaquarium.com

www.ZimmermansFish.com


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## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

philipraposo1982 said:


> yeah pumpkin seeds can be mean as hell. Worse that any cichlid imo. They also can get up to 10" long. Not really ideal for a 75g.


Bluegill
8” (5.5 years)
9” (7.9 years)
10+” (>15.1 years)

I agree with them being mean as hell, but in captivity I doubt they'd live long enough to get that large. 7 years to grow that last inch to make 10" that's crazy! Also, bluegill are good eatin if they outgrow their tank!


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## JDS1212 (Mar 18, 2012)

Dead2fall said:


> Bluegill
> 8” (5.5 years)
> 9” (7.9 years)
> 10+” (>15.1 years)
> ...


If anything they will get bigger faster in an aquarium.


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## knm<>< (Mar 18, 2010)

JDS1212 said:


> If your interested in different type of natives you can get them here.
> 
> http://jonahsaquarium.com
> 
> www.ZimmermansFish.com


I visited those sites as well as some other fish farm sites,,but I got mine with rod and reel or net. Nothing beats free.



Dead2fall said:


> Bluegill
> 8” (5.5 years)
> 9” (7.9 years)
> 10+” (>15.1 years)
> ...


Actually, pumpkinseeds don't normally grow as large as bluegill. In VA, average adult size is 4-6 inches, but I'm sure there are some larger than that. These were wild caught so I think they will stay in that range or maybe an inch or two larger. Captive bred specimens can probably get much larger.

Also, mean as hell is relative. Most of my fish pretty much ignore each other. That one pumpkinseed was pretty aggressive, but every fish has its own personality. 



JDS1212 said:


> If anything they will get bigger faster in an aquarium.


I agree with this, especially if you over feed. I was feeding them once per day, but have reduced that to once every other day. These fish try and convince you they are starved, no matter how much you feed them, so it would be easy to fatten them up.


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## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

Native species were my original plan for my first tank. I was going to do native plants the whole 9 yards. I wanted to net sunny fry out of the weeds in the summer but never got around to it. I think it's a very cool idea for a tank.


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## knm<>< (Mar 18, 2010)

I think you would not be disappointed with a native tank. Sunfish are really pretty, competing with many tropicals in my opinion. If you're planning to keep natives, I would recommend checking out NANFA's forum for great ideas and info (forum.nanfa.org).

Also, look up microfishing. I caught all the sunfish on 2lb test with the smallest hooks I could find. It's a pretty good time and allows you to start your tank with juvies. Netting is cool too, but doesn't compare to fishing.


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## Betta132 (Nov 29, 2012)

I catch orangespotted sunnies with a tiny barbless hook and (I kid you not) canned corn. They love corn, for some weird reason. All sunfish I've encountered love it. Orangespots are very pretty fish, especially the males. I'd love to try a native fish tank like this, probably with those and a bunch of shiners. 
Do you have shiners around there? Might be safer from the sunnies than mosquitofish, and a 75g should give them enough room to race around. Shiners can be legally obtained with a net, I believe... just lure them closer with food of some kind and dart really fast with the net. I've gotten them to eat out of my hands by holding parts of found crayfish (local heron doesn't always finish his meals) in the water and standing still. Takes two minutes, tops, for them to start gobbling.
Actually... you could possibly get sunnies that way. Once they see the shiners eating safely, they come up and start eating. It's awesome.


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## knm<>< (Mar 18, 2010)

We do have shiners, especially in the blue ridge mountains where I'm from. I actually caught the catfish with a net and it was really easy. I just stirred up the bottom a bit and set the net in the silt. They swam right in looking for food in the stirred up dirt.


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## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

Oh I could've fished them easily I fish all the time. My lake is full of jumbos though, I wanted like nickel sized. Used to scoop up netfuls of slop and weeds out of the water as kids and find all kinds of species of fry among other critters. I pretty much "microfish" all winter long through the hard water. 2 foot pole, Mitchell 308, 2 pound leader, 4 pound line, tiny tiny jigs. It's real fun when a 28" golden trout hits instead of the panfish you're expecting!


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## knm<>< (Mar 18, 2010)

Well, I finally broke down and added some non-native plants to the tank. I tore down my 7.5g to turn it into a nano paludarium and decided to rehome the java ferns, needle leaf java ferns, and one anubias barteri in here. I like it , it's looking a little more complete I think.










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## knm<>< (Mar 18, 2010)

Things have changed...



















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## thetimn8er (May 4, 2015)

soon I`m going to set up a small scale one in my 38 gallon flat back hex but I`ve got to get it fixed first

Bump: soon I`m going to set up a small scale one in my 38 gallon flat back hex but I`ve got to get it fixed first


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## Alexp08 (Oct 14, 2014)

Hello again. Once again i just want to tell you how much i enjoy your tank. So much so that im using it for motivation to set up a north american tank. Couple questions. what are the fish stocking you have? what do you feed your fish? what is the water flow like, and any other advice you could tell me would be nice. Thanks


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## knm<>< (Mar 18, 2010)

Well, first off, thank you for the compliment. Second, when I did have natives in this tank I fed them frozen blood worms and new life spectrum cichlid pellets. It took a long time for them to warm up to the pellets. I would also feed them meal worms and earthworms on occasion. 

I no longer keep the natives because the tank is in my living room and my wife couldn't handle the fish constantly chasing each other. I put them all in a friend's pond hoping they make the transition back to wild feeding. 

Flow in this tank is accomplished by the sump return, it's a standard corner overflow setup.

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## knm<>< (Mar 18, 2010)

I need to update this thread, haven't been on the forum in quite some time.

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## MBADataMiner (Aug 24, 2015)

is it legal to keep native fish? I love the idea here as the native sunfish in Virginia are gorgeous, but I don't want a visit from Mr. Game Warden


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## knm<>< (Mar 18, 2010)

Yes it is, I did a ton of research before attempting it. If you decide to do it, I suggest you go to the nanfa forum. Those guys helped me immensely and they would surely do the same for you. Also go to the VA department of game and inland fisheries for regulations.

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## MBADataMiner (Aug 24, 2015)

Thanks! I will check into that. (P.S. I used to live in Fairfax, I noticed your sig says Nova). 

Cheers,

Bump: I wonder what size aquarium would be appropriate for a largemouth bass? They are gorgeous fish


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## jerrytheplater (Apr 11, 2007)

MBADataMiner said:


> Thanks! I will check into that. (P.S. I used to live in Fairfax, I noticed your sig says Nova).
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Bump: I wonder what size aquarium would be appropriate for a largemouth bass? They are gorgeous fish


The biggest you can get, 180 gallon, 300 gallon. An outdoor pond would be a better idea.


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## Patriot (Dec 22, 2010)

Awesome tank!! Nice to see another military member on the forum.


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## knm<>< (Mar 18, 2010)

Wow, haven't been on here in a while. This thread needs a major update. Unfortunately, I'm out of the country for a while. I will go ahead and tell you this tank is no longer natives. They grew to hate each other (that's how my wife explains it), constantly chasing and nipping. So, I figured they needed more space. I'm back to traditional fauna. Since I'm not home to do proper updates, I'll leave it at that and continue to lurk in the shadows of the forum.


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