# Finnex sucks majorly?



## Terabyte (Jul 5, 2018)

I've got a 36" finnex 24/7 se PP on my 65 gallon tall aquarium. Now while I know that is quite deep and wide for such fixture, according to these - https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/145-finnex/189944-finnex-ray-ii-fugeray-par-data.html - charts, I should be getting OK light. But literally all my tank ever does is grow algae. I have 7 really tiny amazon sword plants that while they sprout new leaves pretty often, the leaves stay about 2-3 tall?? I have eco-complete substrate and dose flourish at recommended levels but my tank has always grown algae before the flourish. I started on it to try to get my swords up and looking good. My red ozelot sword is okish but It stays pretty small still. This new hygro "willow" plant I ordered is also suffering among the other new plants like micro sword and pygmy chain sword, which I have seen grow much better in lower light conditions. Why are my plants just suffering?? I'm buying some ottos and nerites sometime soon to see if that helps but any info on my swords and other plant's poor performance is appreciated!


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## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

The Finnex should be fine in a low tech setup.

Let's get a baseline:
- Are you injecting CO2?
- What is your photoperiod?
- Do you have test results for NO3, PO4 and GH?
- How often do you do water changes and what amount?
- How often do you clean the filter?
- How good is your circulation (can you see plants gently waving in the 'breeze' top to bottom)?
- What type of algae do you have (hair, BBA, GSA, etc)?
- Are you rippling the surface with filter or pumps, for good gas exchange?

Initial impressions (assuming you are not injecting CO2): 
You don't have any/enough macro fertilizers and, perhaps, not enough Ca and/or Mg. The Flourish is primarily micros only (insufficient N,P & K). Test results for NO3 and PO4 will tell us if you are getting enough N and P, but potassium is likely deficient in any case. Test results for GH will tell us if you are getting enough Ca and Mg. Glut, such as Excel and others, would help quite a bit if CO2 is not being injected.


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## Terabyte (Jul 5, 2018)

I don't inject any form of C02, My photoperiod is usually about 10-12 hours on max and it ramps up and down from there. I don't have tests for NO3, PO4, and GH. I do 60-80% waterchanges bi weekly. The filter (Fluval 306) Is cleaned usually bi-monthly (I have a tiny stocking, 3 serpae tetras, 4 kuhli loaches, and a bn plec) I can see my pretty beat up Italian val moving quite a bit in the corner of the tank but there isn't a whole lot of movement in the other plants. I dunno what kind of algae I have, some of it is brown and sorta powdery, there is some slimy black stuff on my anubias sometimes, and there is this stringy/webby algae I get that collects detritus often on my water wisteria. The water ripples on the surface quite a lot, but not a ton as I cannot stand the splashing sounds it gets when there is too much going on. I was thinking about getting some Excel but was going to hold off as my new val is suuuuuuuper rough (The leaves came in fully brown, and green is starting to inch its way back up the leaves but they are falling off) so I was worried that it would bite the dust for good.


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## Mike A. (Jan 6, 2018)

Terabyte said:


> I don't inject any form of C02, My photoperiod is usually about *10-12 hours on max* and it ramps up and down from there...


^ That's likely most of your problem. Might try cutting that in half.

Flourish provides little to no macro nutrients. With that and very light stocking as you say your plants aren't getting much.


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## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

If you are going to try to develop a nicely planted tank, you should buy the indicated test kits so that you can gain a feel for what is going on. I recommend the Salifert nitrate, API phosphate and API GH/KH kits. All combined are <$40 and they will last a while.

There are many ways to go on adding macros. Longer term, the least costly is to buy dry fertilizer and mix into solution yourself. The simple way is to buy pre-mixed. You will likely need (TBD by your tests) to add N, P and K. Since you are using Flourish, I’d suggest you buy Seachem’s Nitrogen, Phosphorus and Potassium (3 separate products) and dose per directions. You can cut back on the N and P if your tests show high levels. We’ll hold off on increasing GH until we see what your test results are.

As @Mike A. suggested, drop to a 6 hour, or less, photoperiod. You can ramp it up once your plants are growing well and algae is under control. You are driving your plants to grow with the long photoperiod, but they are starving for CO2 and macros. This makes for unhealthy plants and ideal algae conditions.

One 50% water change per week is plenty and your filter cleaning is good. As your tank develops, you may find that weekly cleaning of the filter will help. I would add Seachem’s Purigen to your filter. It will help a lot in soaking up certain organics and, as a side benefit, polishes your water.

Surface rippling is good, but you don’t want to break the surface, which causes the splashing. It sounds like you are fine with that. Adding a small Hydor Koralia pump, to improve circulation, might be a good idea.

Your description indicates the whole algae family, maybe some cyanobacteria. The best algae solution is a lot of healthy plants. In the short term, Excel can kill much of the algae and keeping PO4 levels above 2-4 ppm can inhibit some of it. Excel can harm the vals, until they get used to it, so it might be better to hold off and try to get a healthy plant mass via the ferts and photoperiod for now. The shorter photoperiods will diminish the algae while helping your plants recover and gain some strength.


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## Terabyte (Jul 5, 2018)

Deanna said:


> If you are going to try to develop a nicely planted tank, you should buy the indicated test kits so that you can gain a feel for what is going on. I recommend the Salifert nitrate, API phosphate and API GH/KH kits. All combined are <$40 and they will last a while.
> 
> There are many ways to go on adding macros. Longer term, the least costly is to buy dry fertilizer and mix into solution yourself. The simple way is to buy pre-mixed. You will likely \


Do you think running finnex on its 24/7 mode would be a short enough photoperiod? It is at max for only about 3 hours but for the prior and following 3 hours it is kinda bright.


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## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

I don't have experience with the Planted+, but it is medium-high light. So, I'm guessing that extra six hours around the center three hours is too much. There is no harm in sudden on/off with a light. I would just set it to a fixed 5-6 hours until you get the tank in shape. Going a full 9 hours on a low tech tank with a light like that, with no plant mass to speak of, is begging for stunned plants and healthy algae.


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## JJ09 (Sep 11, 2014)

Its not the Finnex per se. I run this tank on a Finnex light. But mine is only on for 7 hours, and I have also dimmed it with translucent plastic. Try reducing your photoperiod and see if it improves things.


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## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

@JJ09: Re-consider the use of the plastic as a filter. You may be seeing the visible light dimmed, but you could also be entirely cutting out the key red and blue spectrum points that plants need. You would need a par meter to determine this. You might find a dimmer that will work with your light.

See this thread: https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/10-lighting/1261370-lights-too-bright-fish.html
Post #8


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## JJ09 (Sep 11, 2014)

@Deanna, that is a very good point. I did ask myself that when I first tried it. However I've had it on there for 3 years and as far as I can tell, the plants are healthy. Surely they would look poorly by now, if what I did was altering the light in a way that limited something? My 45g tank I've also used a few strips of plastic to diffuse the light- for 3 months- plants look pretty good IMHO. 

Yes, I'd purchase a dimmer if I need to. I just thought they were doing well so it was fine. A few more pics to judge by (taken yesterday):


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## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

JJ09 said:


> @Deanna, that is a very good point. I did ask myself that when I first tried it. However I've had it on there for 3 years and as far as I can tell, the plants are healthy. Surely they would look poorly by now, if what I did was altering the light in a way that limited something? My 45g tank I've also used a few strips of plastic to diffuse the light- for 3 months- plants look pretty good IMHO.


Probably more a matter of: "could it be better?" If you're happy with the results, then why change? From the standpoint of a purist, it's an unknown without testing. Just wanted to alert you to the possibility.


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## FishRFriendz (Dec 21, 2016)

Terabyte said:


> Do you think running finnex on its 24/7 mode would be a short enough photoperiod? It is at max for only about 3 hours but for the prior and following 3 hours it is kinda bright.




The 24/7 mode grew algae for me.
Eco complete
Osmocote 
Ez green
20g tall

I tried growing a Monte Carlo carpet but ended up with soft wispy algae covering all the plants. I tried 24/7 mode, and then max on various timings from 12 to 8 hours.
Only when I added a Current satellite pro light in addition to the PP 24/7 SE and go down to a 6-7hr photo period did my problems go away. 
After 6 months of fail with Monte Carlo I actually planted the s repens as my indicator plant, if I saw it growing tall then I knew to add more light.

The 24/7 mode is a gimmick.


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## JJ09 (Sep 11, 2014)

Deanna said:


> Probably more a matter of: "could it be better?" If you're happy with the results, then why change? From the standpoint of a purist, it's an unknown without testing. Just wanted to alert you to the possibility.


Exactly. I'm pretty satisfied with it. I know there's an ugly java fern leaf or two in there- I changed my ferts a while back and the older leaves are dying off.


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## AbbeysDad (Apr 13, 2016)

I have a 48" Finnex Planted Plus 24/7 on my 60g running in 24/7 mode on a timer from 6am till midnight and it works perfectly - seeing is believing:


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## micheljq (Oct 24, 2012)

I had a 65G tall (24" tall) tank. I tried a Beamswork, than a Finnex Ray 2, even both fixtures at the same time, and not getting the results i wanted. It was good for low light plants. I was disappointed with these ramps. 

I think 24" tall requires something powerful, if you want medium/high light plants, twice as complicated than a 18" high tank.

I began to get the growth i wanted when i added Grobeam's leds, for example, my vals really began to thrive instead of just surviving.

Michel.


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## marks_01 (Jan 4, 2017)

I have the original 24/7 light on a 65g. My experience for 2 years now is that it is the perfect amount of light for an amazon sword, when directly over the sword and in the default 24/7 mode. (And not nearly enough light by itself to grow carpet plants). Other major factors: Swords love root tabs, iron, potassium, and deeper substrate. I believe they'll do much better in soft water like the amazon river.


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