# T5 or CF?



## LS6 Tommy (May 13, 2006)

I'm not saying that the CF's are better than the T5 HO's, but I can tell you that I am more than pleased with the _AH Supply_ setup I have.

Tommy


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## turbomkt (Jun 9, 2004)

Is there a reason to not go with a 2x36W setup from AHSupply? I understand it is only $2 more for the kit (but a bit more than that more for the bulbs).

I'm a glutton for punishment by having too much light, but not that much.

$.02


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

turbomkt said:


> Is there a reason to not go with a 2x36W setup from AHSupply? I understand it is only $2 more for the kit (but a bit more than that more for the bulbs).
> 
> I'm a glutton for punishment by having too much light, but not that much.
> 
> $.02


2x 36 watt over two tanks or one tank? Over one tank would give me 7.2 WPG. I'd need to get my butt in gear to prevent an algae bloom. =P

And I'm thinking ahead to maybe a future upgrade to a 20 or 30 gallon to sit in the same counterspace as the two 10 gallon tanks now. If I put 72 watts in the custom-made hood now, it'll only give me ~2 WPG for a 30 gallon tank later.

Problem of upgrading the system is that the custom-hood is 47 1/4", designed to fit that space perfectly. I wish the space were 48" so I could use use standard 4 feet shop lights if I needed the wattage boost.


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## BSS (Sep 24, 2004)

IF the reflectors are comparable, I'm starting to think the T5 HOs can get you a tad more of the light into the tank. However, if you are talking AHS reflectors versus DIY reflectors, go AHS! Reflectors can make a *huge* difference.


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## Ryzilla (Oct 29, 2005)

I would go with the sunlight tek 5 retro's over the AHS retro's. I think if you took a survey here all the veteren's would say choose the tek5 retro over the AHS. I am going to get a similiar retro set up from catalina aquarium. They pretty much have the same reflectors as tek 5 and slightly cheaper.


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## emoore3 (Oct 18, 2003)

T5 will be able to get more light into the tank with good reflectors. CF are similar to T5s but their downfall is the is a lot of restrike. With good reflectors T5s will get more light into the tank than CF.


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## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

I read the title of this thread and thought exactly what a few of our other members thought: Good reflectors.....go with T5s. If you are going to DIY the reflectors for T5, then by all means go with the AH Supply.

You will get more light than with PC and a slightly lower running temperature (in my experience). 

A TEK retrofit kit would be a great idea! Nice suggestion, Ryzilla!

Mike


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Cool. The Tek retrofit kits are ~$100 give or take for 2x54w without bulbs.

I priced invididual components (Workhorse 7, 2x54w 6500K bulbs, endcaps....etc...) for $96 including bulbs and IceCap/Tek quality reflectors. =)

With the Workhorse 7, I'll probably end up running 3x54 bulbs for two 10 gallons side by side. 

That's 162 watts over 48" for ~3.38 watts per inch of bulb (crude method, I know). The tanks are 20" each, so ~67.5 watts per gallon. Subtract any errors/assumptions I've made, and voila, at least 4WPG for each tank. And in case I ever upgrade to a 36" tank, I can use the same lights. =)


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Among T5 reflectors, I like Icecaps version the best. I have some Sunlight Tek reflectors as well, but Icecaps are made of the same nice material as AHS' PC reflectors.

For ballast, you could use a T8 Advance 4 bulb ballast as well. They push about 45W with one bulb, 40W/bulb with 2 bulbs, probably slightly less with 3 bulbs, haven't tried.

For bulbs, recently I started using NO bulbs which are cheap at Hellolights. The can be overdriven to HO wattages, depending on the ballast.


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Wasserpest said:


> Among T5 reflectors, I like Icecaps version the best. I have some Sunlight Tek reflectors as well, but Icecaps are made of the same nice material as AHS' PC reflectors.
> 
> For ballast, you could use a T8 Advance 4 bulb ballast as well. They push about 45W with one bulb, 40W/bulb with 2 bulbs, probably slightly less with 3 bulbs, haven't tried.
> 
> For bulbs, recently I started using NO bulbs which are cheap at Hellolights. The can be overdriven to HO wattages, depending on the ballast.


I might get a pair of the IceCap reflectors, but that'd mean extra shipping charges. Doh!

I'm getting the Workhorse 7 for ~$32 and I couldn't find the exact model of the Advance ballast you were talking about so I couldn't do a price comparison. The Workhorse 7 will drive up to 4x54 watt T5 HO bulbs at full power.

As for the bulbs, I'm getting 54watt 45.2" T5 HO GE Starcoat bulbs for $13 a piece...I checked Hellolights and everything was more expensive than this and these are real HO bulbs.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

The WH7 is a good ballast, and $32 is an excellent price. I am just a cheapskate.

I haven't found really a convincing difference between "NO" and "HO" bulbs. Connected to the same ballast, they run the same wattage, at least according to what I measured. Could be that the NO version burns out prematurely, time will tell. I don't like the GE Starcoats much, they seem to turn yellowish after a few months.


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Wasserpest said:


> The WH7 is a good ballast, and $32 is an excellent price. I am just a cheapskate.
> 
> I haven't found really a convincing difference between "NO" and "HO" bulbs. Connected to the same ballast, they run the same wattage, at least according to what I measured. Could be that the NO version burns out prematurely, time will tell. I don't like the GE Starcoats much, they seem to turn yellowish after a few months.


How much are the NO bulbs you get? If they're cheaper, I'm in. =) I'm going to end up getting the AquaLux (regarded by many as the second best reflectors after IceCaps) to save some money. The IceCaps are $6 or $7 more per bulb, so $21 for 3 bulbs plus $12 in shiping. $33 saved is fine with me. =)

But yea, would ya mind linking me to the NO bulbs you usually buy?


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Just steer clear of the Giesemann 6000K. Its not as bright as the GE6500ks according to one of our mods... I like the Aquamedic or Current USA 10000K and GE 6500K in equal representation. Of course these are all HO tubes.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

epicfish said:


> How much are the NO bulbs you get? If they're cheaper, I'm in. =) I'm going to end up getting the AquaLux (regarded by many as the second best reflectors after IceCaps) to save some money. The IceCaps are $6 or $7 more per bulb, so $21 for 3 bulbs plus $12 in shiping. $33 saved is fine with me. =)
> 
> But yea, would ya mind linking me to the NO bulbs you usually buy?


Initially I bought the GE Starcoats and found them to turn yellow, then I checked out AquaMedics Ocean (the 24" burns out prematurely for me) and Planta (gets very dim in no time). Here is my current choice, good price, very crisp white light, and time will tell if they last when overdriven to HO levels. They also sell a 6700K bulb which is, as expected, a tad more yellow, but okay when used in combination.

I really, really wish GE would make a linear version of their Fresh&Salt 9325K bulb!!!

Can you provide a linky to the Aqualux reflector source?


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## ianiwane (Sep 7, 2004)

how long have you been overdriving that coralife bulb for?


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

A little over a month, too early to tell if it works, but so far, so good.

Deep inside I think they might be very similar bulbs, attached to different ballasts...

I am also running a 2ft NO T5 at 20W (spec is 14W). Connected to an appropriate ballast, I am sure they run at 24W like their HO brethren. With a price of $6.50 per bulb, it is a very cost efficient lighting.


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## ianiwane (Sep 7, 2004)

Sounds good. I am very interested in your results.


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## kangshiang (Jun 28, 2006)

Of course I will say T5......T5 light is more strong than the CF and will not cause that much heat....And T5 bulbs live are more longer than CF.


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Overdriving a 28W bulb to get ~35-40W per bulb, huh? Interesting.


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

Wasser,
I took the plunge and ordered four of the 10000K 28w T-5 Coralife bulbs from Hellolights. I'm interested in seeing if these inexpensive bulbs can whiten up my 120g tank that currently sits under 2 GE Starcoats and 2 Geissemann 6000K 54w tubes. The current setup is very yellow so I'll be hoing for the best.


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Bill, I've been pleased with a combo of GEs and the 10000ks from both Aquamedic and Current USA. I can't tell a whole lot of difference as I have GEs with AM 10000K on one tank (my 90G) - and GEs with Current USA 10000K on my 65G. Not perfect, but way better than straight Starcoats. Both have equal ratios on 6500K to 10000k tubes.


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

Bob,
That's pretty much the way I intend to use the new bulbs initially. If they're white/bright enough I'll keep them on as the all-day light and turn the GE/Geissemann bulbs on during the mid-day lighting period.


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Hm, so if I'm going for a 3 bulb T5 setup, I should probably get two 10000K bulbs and that one 6700K GE Starcoat?


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

epicfish said:


> Hm, so if I'm going for a 3 bulb T5 setup, I should probably get two 10000K bulbs and that one 6700K GE Starcoat?


Not necessarily. I'll be mixing the two only because I already have a bunch of the GE and Geissemann bulbs. If the 10000K tubes look good I'll swap over to them exclusively once the 6500/6000K bulbs burn out.


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

bharada said:


> Not necessarily. I'll be mixing the two only because I already have a bunch of the GE and Geissemann bulbs. If the 10000K tubes look good I'll swap over to them exclusively once the 6500/6000K bulbs burn out.



Which ballast are you going to be using to drive the 10000K bulbs from HelloLights?


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

I have a TEK Light 4x54w fixture so I'm not sure which ballast they use.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Bill, I am sure you'll like the cheap bulbs. I have a 28W Coralife and a 54W Aquamedic, both 10000K, running side by side, and don't notice much difference.

I prefer a mix of bulbs, straight 10000K makes my light-green plants like Dwarf Sags, Wisteria and Watersprite look almost white, sick. So I am mixing in some 6500/6700K bulbs (GE, Coralife).

Let's keep in touch about the overdriving thing... of course, more ppl buying NO bulbs might lead to some price increases down the road.


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## Ryzilla (Oct 29, 2005)

bharada said:


> I have a TEK Light 4x54w fixture so I'm not sure which ballast they use.


My next fixture will be either the 4x54 of 6x54 depending on if I get a 90g or a 120g.


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

I wonder how much wattage I can actually get out of the 28W Coralife bulbs.

$37 for them with shipping from HelloLights, or I can get 3 54W HO 6500K bulbs from the same place I'm ordering my reflectors for $38.


I have two 20" long 10 gallon tanks sitting side-by-side. I want to use a 48" fixture for the both of them. Should I go with 2 or 3 bulbs? Someone was saying that I might be able to get 40W out of the 28W Coralife bulbs, so 80W total over a span of 48". Of course, the tanks are only 40" combined, so that means ~66 watts of light will be entering the two tanks. 3WPG per tank? Or is there something else I have to factor in?


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

Small tanks don't follow the wpg guide very well. I have a 55w CF over a 10g tank at work growing a large mass of moss and some Anubias. While 5.5wpg sound like a lot, the tank can go for weeks with nothing more than water top offs. Except for some Cladaphora that popped up on some driftwood the tank has been pretty much algae-free.

When I remember to dose it it only gets a couple mls of TMG, PPS solution, and Excel. Mainly it's getting fertilized by the 100+ Cherry Red shrimp and small group of fish in there.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

epicfish said:


> I wonder how much wattage I can actually get out of the 28W Coralife bulbs.
> 
> Someone was saying that I might be able to get 40W out of the 28W Coralife bulbs, so 80W total over a span of 48".


I have them on a WH7 ballast, and they are running around 54W, based on the fact that there is no change in overall wattage when using a 54W or 28W bulb.

I also played with the cheap Advance ballasts (4SC32 or something) and no matter if HO (54W) or NO (28W) bulbs were used, the ballast pushed 45W through one bulb, and 40W through 2 bulbs (total of 80W).

I asked the manufacturer of Advance ballasts about this, and they said using them for T5 bulbs will drastically cut their lifespan, void the warranty, and whoever attempts that will roast in hell. (okay I made that one up) 

But as tested by gbhil, lifespan isn't all that bad.


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Guess I'm going with 3 bulbs then. I'll try 3x 28W overdriven first so hopefully I can get ~162 watts from those! Yeeeeeeeha.

Or maybe 2 x 28W (driven to 40W each) 10,000K and 1 x 54W 6500K for ~162W for some nice mixtures of colors?

I haven't the faintest idea what 6500K vs 10000K will look like on my tank, but since a few of you have said the 6500Ks are too yellow, I'll run with that. =)


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Well I think that is WAY too much light for two 10 gal tanks, but we are all different, and maybe it will work out for you. :thumbsup:


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

epicfish said:


> Hm, so if I'm going for a 3 bulb T5 setup, I should probably get two 10000K bulbs and that one 6700K GE Starcoat?


That might look pretty good. Two GEs would prolly be too yellow. But straight 10000ks is way too crisp white, IMO. A third option might be one 6500K, one 10000k and one Planta, though the Plantas are pretty dim after a while.


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

I get my 10000K bulbs on Friday so I guess I'll find out soon enough.


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

Bulbs arrived on Friday, but I didn't get to see them running until Saturday.

First impression? They are just as bright as the 54w bulbs. They are also noticably blue...even when not compared side-by-side with the GE Starcoats you can tell they're blue.

So for now I have them running as the mid-day lights with the GEs running full day. I'll reevaluate them once they've had a couple of weeks to burn in.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

If you measure the wattage you will find it's the same as the HO bulbs... 

Regarding the color, to me they look "white", while the GE and other 6700K bulbs look "yellow", I guess it is all relative...

Hellolights also sells a Coralife 6700K bulb, it might be a better choice if the 10000K bulb seems too blue.


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## fresh_lynny (Mar 9, 2006)

Momotaro said:


> I read the title of this thread and thought exactly what a few of our other members thought: Good reflectors.....go with T5s. If you are going to DIY the reflectors for T5, then by all means go with the AH Supply.
> 
> You will get more light than with PC and a slightly lower running temperature (in my experience).
> 
> ...


Mike tells me that T-5's are the "wave of the future".....but then again he is just saying it to p*ss my husband off because I dropped a G-note on my metals...lol


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## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

6700Ks look yellow to me as well. Not distractingly so, but the yellow makes everything appear very green. 



> Mike tells me that T-5's are the "wave of the future".....


Wave of the future, Chris.......wave of the future.... :icon_wink 


Mike


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Anyone have a T5 setup that they can get the dimensions for me?

I'm interested in the length from the end of the end cap to the end of the other end cap. Either waterproof or regular end caps will work, just please specify it in your post. I want to make sure the bulbs + end caps will fit before I go and spend a ton of money on the DIY system.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Interested in seeing how long those overdriven bulbs will go as far as lifespan. Currently using AM Ocean Whites HO (11,000k) bulbs right now to balance off the warmer colors of the 10,000k Ushios.


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

Ibn said:


> Currently using AM Ocean Whites HO (11,000k) bulbs right now to balance off the warmer colors of the 10,000k Ushios.


Haha. 11000K bulbs to balance warm 10000K bulbs. No wonder everyone get so confused over K ratings. :icon_lol:


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Yup. :hihi: The MH are putting out a different color light than the PC or T5s. 

Should be getting a couple of Ushio 14,000k bulbs in today as well. Gonna see how white these compare with the 10,000k.


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

So:

1) DIY T5 4-bulb system will cost me maybe ~$235 with bulbs, not including the wood, nails, screws, and everything needed to build myself a canopy, including time. Maybe $250 plus my time and effort (not so great at woodworking!  ). However, this setup will include IceCap reflectors, which are the best on the market AFAIK.

2) DIY T5 3-bulb system for $200 with bulbs, but also not including anything I'd have to do to make the canopy myself. Same reflectors as above. $215 plus time for the entire setup.

3) A complete SLS Tek T5 system will cost me ~$275 including the bulbs (4 x 28W Coralife @ HelloLights)....I've heard the Tek reflectors are 3rd best after the IceCaps and Lux reflectors.

I think I've said it in my first few posts, but this fixture will sit above two 10 gallon tanks, so I originally only needed 2-3 bulbs, depending on the type of plants I'd want to keep. However, I'm thinking of upgrading my tank within the next year or so (50-65 gallons), so I'm not really sure what to do. I could use two bulbs now for 8-9 hours a day, with a midday burst of an hour or two with the other two bulbs so that I won't get a massive algae bloom.

Any opinions?


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

epicfish said:


> So:
> 
> 1) DIY T5 4-bulb system will cost me maybe ~$235 with bulbs, not including the wood, nails, screws, and everything needed to build myself a canopy, including time. Maybe $250 plus my time and effort (not so great at woodworking!  ). However, this setup will include IceCap reflectors, which are the best on the market AFAIK.
> 
> ...


The thing to remember about the reflector ratings you quote is that they're based on reef tanks, not FW planted tanks. The light intensity needs over a marine reef tank is far more critical than what our plants need.

So while the TEK reflectors may be thought of as third best, they're far from inadequate. And realistically, over a pair of 10g tanks whatever you choose will be bordering on overkill. Even over a 65 it will be more than enough to make light intensity a non-factor.


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

You have a good point there. =P

Just talked to ReefGeek where I planned to get my DIY stuff. They said they'd price match another site, so I'm saving maybe $10 on Options 1 and 2. Hm.


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## tritan (Feb 11, 2005)

epicfish said:


> I have two 10 gallon tanks (each is 20" wide) side by side on a counter. There is about 47 1/4" of space over the two tanks to mount a light...leaving 7 1/4" of counter space.
> 
> I'm debating whether I should get a 2x 55w retrofit kit from AH Supply or a T5 HO 2 x 54w from scratch?
> 
> ...


I did this with one 48 inch T-5 corallife light , it works great.


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Yep. The lights are about 6" off of the water level of the tanks. Gives me room to work in the tanks. Although I'd like some more light...running a photoperiod of 8-9 hours a day with 2 bulbs (108 watts...28W bulbs in a 54W fixture. =P ) and then with a midday burst of 3 hours with all 4 bulbs on.

Fertilizing every other day with NPK, no micros yet. DIY CO2 with 2-3 bpm.


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