# Possibly Cyanobacteria in my 60-P too!!!



## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Due to the events that took place in my "can we get to the bottom of GDA" thread where it turned out that cyanobacteria was eating up all of the Nitrogen in the tank causing my plants to grow poorly and thus allowing GDA to be a huge nuisance I am now thinking that this same issue is happening in my 60-p. The GDA in this tank is not as bad as it was in the 37g but the algae/cyano (although not looking the same as the cyano in my 37g) in this tank has the same smell as the algae that was in the 37g. The plants are also growing poorly in the 60-p no matter how much co2 I inject and all of my fert parameters and lighting are spot on. I'm going to start dosing Erythromycin (which is what I dosed in the 37g to kill the cyanobacteria) tomorrow and see what happens. 

Pre-dosing pics.










Cant put anymore co2 in the tank. 

















Nice pearling. 









What kind of algae is this, I think its a form of cyanobacteria. 


































Some nice GDA.


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## kamikazi (Sep 3, 2010)

cyano is a green slime. 5-7 don't look like cyano to me
the other pics im not sure


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Normally I would agree with you but after the findings in my 37g I'm open to anything.


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## TLE041 (Jan 16, 2010)

I used this product in my Mini-L when I had a bad case of BGA. It took two treatments (2 days apart) and the problem went away completely. None of the fishes or CRS were affected.

The manufacturer claims that it's not an antibiotic, so none of the beneficial bacteria are affected.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

TLE041 said:


> I used this product in my Mini-L when I had a bad case of BGA. It took two treatments (2 days apart) and the problem went away completely. None of the fishes or CRS were affected.
> 
> The manufacturer claims that it's not an antibiotic, so none of the beneficial bacteria are affected.


I wonder what is in that product that kills the BGA? For treatment on my 37g I used API E.M. Erythromycin and it seems to have done the trick. I just got home and looked at the tank and it looks beautiful, the water is clear, the plants are looking healthy again and even the algae on the bottom leaves on the plants barely has any algae on them. I think im going to clean out the filter tomorrow or on Sunday after a vigorous scrubbing to make sure as much as I can that all the bad stuff is out of the tank. 

I'm going to start treating the 60-p tomorrow with the Erythro and hopefully get some good results when I get back in the office Monday. It sucks that im of on Sundays and wont be able to dose but I think ill just dose first thing (9am) for 20g (2 packets) then dose two more packets at 6pm when I am getting off. If the treatment hurts the $1 petco neon's that are in there ill be okay!


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

I'm totally going to send you a pm and ask for algae samples to look at, don't you know? That cotton candy stuff is intriguing. (Yes I am obsessed.)

Good idea on the cleaning of the filter and scrub down. Get any bad stuff out of there that may be lurking.

I'm tagging along on this thread to see what happens.

What do you dose on this tank and what are your other parameters, bsmith? I'm just nosy.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

sewingalot said:


> I'm totally going to send you a pm and ask for algae samples to look at, don't you know? That cotton candy stuff is intriguing. (Yes I am obsessed.)
> 
> Good idea on the cleaning of the filter and scrub down. Get any bad stuff out of there that may be lurking.
> 
> ...



I'm glad you made it, the vanquisher of cyano in my 37g!

This black algae/bacteria is like nothing I have ever seen. It is black/gray, smells very strange, grows relatively quickly and does not attach itself to anything. I mean I can pretty much clear it out with my tweezers it comes right out. There is also no real rhyme or reason to where it firms either. It's in low and higher flow areas and in brighter/shaded areas. Not algae behavior at all if you ask me. 

On this tank I had been dosing rootmedic macro/micro mix for months then when this problem started I went back to dry NPK with flourish Fe.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Haha, not a vanquisher, but bandaid applier.  I only can hope that you'll have the success I am having with my own tank using that method. If not, you can yell at me later. 

I will refrain from telling you what I think about adding too much iron, lol. I come from iron country and it's a disaster to add more during certain months (rainy season) because of the iron bacteria present. So I am biased and realize that. 

That is some unique algae, for sure. I am high intrigued, to be honest.

Have you thought about going back to rootmedic products? The whole if it ain't broke saying....unless you stopped using it for being broke. :hihi:


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

sewingalot said:


> Haha, not a vanquisher, but bandaid applier.  I only can hope that you'll have the success I am having with my own tank using that method. If not, you can yell at me later.
> 
> I will refrain from telling you what I think about adding too much iron, lol. I come from iron country and it's a disaster to add more during certain months (rainy season) because of the iron bacteria present. So I am biased and realize that.
> 
> ...


I have your algae samples all packed up and ready to ship. I wasn't able to leave work today because I was with customers but I will drop it off on my way home. I have some samples of the algae all by itself and also on some plant leaves and the bottoms of some purple bamboo that if you remove the mystery algae you could grow them with no problem. I also included some GSA? that I ran a paper towel across that came from the glass so well see what that turns off.


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## DetMich (Mar 18, 2011)

If you haven't yet, take a quick look over this thread: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/algae/140915-cyanobacteria-aka-blue-green-algea-aka.html

I personally had amazing luck following the 5 day dosing of Mardel Maracyn. (Which contains erythromycin) All the BGA in my tank was completely wiped out and hasn't came back.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

bsmith said:


> I have your algae samples all packed up and ready to ship. I wasn't able to leave work today because I was with customers but I will drop it off on my way home. I have some samples of the algae all by itself and also on some plant leaves and the bottoms of some purple bamboo that if you remove the mystery algae you could grow them with no problem. I also included some GSA? that I ran a paper towel across that came from the glass so well see what that turns off.


Work's keeping you busy, eh? Hope you sold a nice car to them. :icon_smil I'm thinking I'll have a nice collection of algae to mess around with. I wonder if this stuff will knock me down like that stinky cyano, lol. Thanks for fueling my passion. :redface:



DetMich said:


> If you haven't yet, take a quick look over this thread: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/algae/140915-cyanobacteria-aka-blue-green-algea-aka.html
> 
> I personally had amazing luck following the 5 day dosing of Mardel Maracyn. (Which contains erythromycin) All the BGA in my tank was completely wiped out and hasn't came back.


That stuff is amazing, isn't it? It did the same for me and hasn't come back. I'm going to keep some Maracyn in my medicine cabinet from now on.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

I would say this unknown algae is as odiferous if not more than the first batch. Break out the nose plugs!


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

I've used maracyn on bga with good results. For a Mini M its cheap enough to just buy the small package at your LFS, not so cheap on larger tanks.
Either way it doesn't have the red, green, purple, or blue look of most BGA.
Not does it appear to be slimy or growing in sheets. 
Looks filamentous, definitely has kinks in its growth.
Maybe it is a response to low pH conditions from an algae or bacteria that is happier in less acidic water.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

I think you'll love some of the photos I took tonight! (Well, just pretend to be excited.)

You have some of the coolest cyanobacteria in there! Look familiar somewhat? 









Main two things I am finding gobs of is Oscillatoria species and some cool diatoms. I'll update more tomorrow evening with pictures. I am curious how the treatment is going?


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Is that pic a pic that someone took of the same cyano that I have in the 60-p? So the smelly black algae is deff cyano?


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Yeah, that picture is found here:http://www-cyanosite.bio.purdue.edu/images/images.html

_Without a doubt that black stringy stuff is cyanobacteria_ mixed with diatoms, but mostly cyano. I'm almost certain it's Oscillatoria sp. But I am trying to get some better pictures before saying for sure. For now, here's some shots. 

Cyanobacteria and a ton of diatoms surround the oscillatoria









It's really cool - if you shine green light on it it glows bright blue:


















The type of diatom (I think it's a diatom, not 100% certain yet) you have gobs of









And you have some nice Woodruffia (was found on the glass sample eating the cyanobacteria). I found a great link on showing the definite relationship of what I call GDA (for lack of better knowledge of what to call it aka "green stuff on glass"). It can be found here: http://www-cyanosite.bio.purdue.edu/images/movies/grazing.html

There are a few other really cool algae types you have in smaller amounts that I'm going to work on tonight getting pictures taken. If you like, I'll share all your critters here later. 

How is the treatment going? And more importantly, how is your other tank doing?


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Treatments going fine and the 37g is still pretty much GDA/cyano free on the glass. There is still some algae on the plant leaves but I think it is coming from an imbalance in ferts due to the plants now taking in nutrients.


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## RickRS (Dec 31, 2010)

I pretty sure I have cyanobacteria spreading in a 75 gallon tank with goldfish. What's weird is nitrates have been 40 ppm for over two month and maybe 40-80 ppm now (hard matching the API test kit result sheets to the water tint so unsure if its 40 or 80) while the BGA has been developing. Ammonia and nitrite are 0 ppm. What in the world?

The idea of using a medication to rid the tank of this is appealing, and just about to try.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Got any pics and does it smell weird?

You could always send a sample to our residend algae scientist Sara (sewingalot) to have it examined a bit more closely.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Here are some pics from today. Lots of improvement but the algae is still not completely gone. This tank is displaying the same signs that my 37g showed early in the treatment. The new growth all looks wonderful and my reds are actually red!



















































The nusiance algae/cyanobacteria.









Nice reds!!!


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Search Lyngbya: 

http://www.outdooralabama.com/fishing/freshwater/where/ponds/p/ap/guide/fila/lyngbyaspp.cfm

Foul stuff.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

sewingalot said:


> The type of diatom (I think it's a diatom, not 100% certain yet) you have gobs of


This is a common diatom called_ Tabellaria_, even the cleanest tanks have this one present on plant leaves.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

plantbrain said:


> Search Lyngbya:
> 
> http://www.outdooralabama.com/fishing/freshwater/where/ponds/p/ap/guide/fila/lyngbyaspp.cfm
> 
> Foul stuff.


That's what you think it may be? One contradictory point would be that it's found in alkaline environments and my tank is more acidic.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Thanks for the id, Tom. I appreciate it.  Diatoms are the one thing I have left in my 55 gallon that become a nuisance if I get lazy on cleaning the tank. I like to think of those as free food and have no problem sharing my life with them and my little rotifiers.

The tank looks better already, bsmith! It is of my humble opinion many of the nuisance algae we come across is cyanobacteria. Most of the time, a good cleaning of the tank and filter, raising oxygen will keep it in check. However, sometimes it's better to attack it head on when all else fails.

Here is a better picture of the slimy stuff, bsmith (and most of the green spot stuff you sent looks like this circular guy). 









I wish the camera could pick up what the microscope can. It was bright blue with definite box like shapes and it dances back and forth. It most resembled this one: http://www-cyanosite.bio.purdue.edu/images/lgimages/oscsyn.jpg

Unfortunately, I don't have more to share than pretty pictures and only speculation as all this is news to me. So maybe I need to add a disclaimer on my signature. :smile:


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

I have diatoms in ALL of my high tech tanks. It is strange to me because I always do at least 40% wc's weekly and most of the time I do a 50%. I do have my co2 levels high but I also have quite a lot of surface agitation in both tanks for good o2 saturation so lower o2 levels would be hard for me to imagine. I'm also a habitual over filterer/flow Nazi. On my 37 not only do I have a 450gph koralia (this is pointed directly at the surface for the o2) but also a rena xp1 that is powered by an Iwaki md-20 which is about a 400gph pump. On my 60-p (only 17g) I have an Eheim 2217 at full blast and on this tank the spray bar is on the right side of the tank pointed at the surface too for surface agitation/o2 introduction.


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

wow! sound like you could go white water rafting with all the current you have moving things around


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

wkndracer said:


> wow! sound like you could go white water rafting with all the current you have moving things around


I love it. At least I know that I will never have any issues with that.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

You are more cleaner, fancier flowing than I am with your tanks. I go too long between water changes and filter cleanings. Do your fish like the current? I bet they get out little surf boards to catch the waves. :fish::fish::fish:

I still can't get over how much nicer the reds in this tank is looking! I'm encouraged that you'll be able to get both tanks on track just in time for my birthday present to arrive. :hihi:


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

It may sound bad but I could really care less about the fish in this tank. They are $1 petsmart neon's. The plants in the tank are much more valuable to me and so is their health. When it comes to filtering/flow for me I have always taken the approach that it is better to have too much than too little. It is also much easier to decrease flow i.e. drill out larger holes in your spray bar (decreasing flow pressure for less water movement), more filter media, lengthening the spray bar, using lily pipes or something similar or with an Eheim just turning back the flow control/shutoff on the outflow quick disconnect. 

I am under the impression (as im sure you are) that the reds look so much nicer because the plants are actual beginning to be able to take advantage of the ferts in the tank and are getting proper mix of nutrients since the BGA isn't hoarding all of the N.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

I'm not going to say that others wouldn't agree with you. I'm quite the opposite. My fish are more valuable to me than the plants. That's what I love about this hobby, there is so much diversity and everyone fits in! 

Pretty much in agreement with that statement, yes. I believe algae once established can wreak havoc on the balance of the tank. I'm assuming you are like me and believe in exhausting all other methods (as you obviously have done in your tank) before resorting to chemical warfare. But if all else fails, it's time to be aggressive.


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

We are true bookends for sure BS.
Cookie cutter aquariums would be boring anyway and the forum would be sooo quiet.

Subtle movement of the current overall, minimum filtration and relaxed maintenance are the bulk of my tanks. Don't misread that to mean the parameters aren't kept so everything stays healthy just trimmed the lighting back to bare minimum then bumping things back up finding levels that suit my game. 

Doesn't mean I don't enjoy you're tanks from my computer


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

sewingalot said:


> I'm not going to say that others wouldn't agree with you. I'm quite the opposite. My fish are more valuable to me than the plants. That's what I love about this hobby, there is so much diversity and everyone fits in!
> 
> Pretty much in agreement with that statement, yes. I believe algae once established can wreak havoc on the balance of the tank. I'm assuming you are like me and believe in exhausting all other methods (as you obviously have done in your tank) before resorting to chemical warfare. But if all else fails, it's time to be aggressive.


Well actually I should clarify. I just depends on which tank were talking about. If its ine of my high tech tanks then yes, the plants take precedence but if it were my other 37g with my L183 starlights or my 20L with my S.Barbatus you can bet you last dollar that they fish will be getting the royal treatment. 

That is what my final conclusion and what I have stated a bazillion times after making the discovery. 

This thread started because I had uncontrollable GDA. Not just your normal high tech clean the glass every could of days GDA. After all of the help from people like you and treating with Erythromycin it was apparent that there certainly was Cyanobacteria/BGA in the tank. After the BGA was killed or at least the treatment started taking effect I noticed that the plants were all starting to grow wonderfully and like they should be in a set up like mine. 
*
My final conclusion is this. The BGA was taking all of the Nitrogen from the water column effectively starving my plants. Since my plants were no longer able to flourish this allowed the GDA to take over the tank.*


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

I think if anyone misreads that one, they need glasses. :hihi: I think that is a fair conclusion. I'm just glad I was able to help you put a band-aid on the bleeding so that your tanks will once again flourish.

I now get what you mean on having certain fish/plants being more important to you. My tank of downoi is my pride and joy and I would literally cry if something happened to it. 

LOL, when I read wknd's post with "BS" it took me a split second to realize he was referring to your initials. Isn't it cool that you guys are kind of on the opposite sides of the planted tank spectrum and both have very beautiful tanks? I love it!

(What are we all doing up in the middle of the night? Usually I'm the one with insomnia.)


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

Great excuse here we brought home a hell on feet now 11 wk old wants up every 3-4hrs German Shepard puppy my wife deals with this sun thru thur only fair I get the wknd-wkndracer

you would not believe how much noise this 'thing' can make.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

wkndracer said:


> We are true bookends for sure BS.
> Cookie cutter aquariums would be boring anyway and the forum would be sooo quiet.
> 
> Subtle movement of the current overall, minimum filtration and relaxed maintenance are the bulk of my tanks. Don't misread that to mean the parameters aren't kept so everything stays healthy just trimmed the lighting back to bare minimum then bumping things back up finding levels that suit my game.
> ...


What do you mean by bookends?

I really appreciate a beautiful low tech tank, now what low tech means isnt hardset but I mean lower light. Some of my favorite scapes are lower light/slower growing plants that have co2 injected. Really some of the most luxuriant growth i have ever seen. I dont know if you have seen the Mini-m "crs/crypt playground" in my sig but it is low tech and I think it's one of the best looking tank in the world!!! 



sewingalot said:


> I think if anyone misreads that one, they need glasses. :hihi: I think that is a fair conclusion. I'm just glad I was able to help you put a band-aid on the bleeding so that your tanks will once again flourish.
> 
> I now get what you mean on having certain fish/plants being more important to you. My tank of downoi is my pride and joy and I would literally cry if something happened to it.
> 
> ...


Band-aid, shoot you took out my appendix! 



wkndracer said:


> Great excuse here we brought home a hell on feet now 11 wk old wants up every 3-4hrs German Shepard puppy my wife deals with this sun thru thur only fair I get the wknd-wkndracer
> 
> you would not believe how much noise this 'thing' can make.


I know what you are saying. I had a Rottie pup sleeping next to me when I was younger and it was absolutely astonishing the amount of noise they can make when they are babies, in their crates and missing their mommies. My little Pug also was quite the squealer. Most of the time I just put my hand on the tank or fingers in the grate and that comforted them enough to fall asleep/shut up!


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