# Help with Hamburg Matten Filter, Shrimp Tank



## ForensicFish (May 19, 2013)

"My question, does anyone know how I can properly move the water at the 2.5 turnover and 7.5 cm/min while also using the max surface area of the foam"

I am not sure what you mean by the above statement. As long as the foam mattenfilter is submerged in the tank and has water flowing through it, you should be using the maximum surface area that is available.

I am not familiar with metric terms so I cannot help you on cm/min aspect. But my question is, why is the turnover that important? Having a higher turn over won't do anything for you other than create more water movement. I do not know how the turn over rate correlates to bacteria colonization in the mattenfilter, but I would lead to believe that it is negligible. 

You can use any powerhead, HOB filter or canister filter that is appropriately sized for a 10 gallon. Since you are going with the mattenfilter, I would suggest you use something other than an airstone for water movement to make sure you are getting adequate water movement. You can still find a mini filter that wont create much sound and still move enough water for you. 

1 in ppi foam WILL NOT stand on its own as far as poret foam is considered. Other types may stand on its own, but I believe you will have a hard time finding 1 in foam to stand on its own. 2 in poret foam will stand on its own.


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## tankedtyler (Oct 24, 2014)

ForensicFish said:


> "My question, does anyone know how I can properly move the water at the 2.5 turnover and 7.5 cm/min while also using the max surface area of the foam"
> 
> I am not sure what you mean by the above statement. As long as the foam mattenfilter is submerged in the tank and has water flowing through it, you should be using the maximum surface area that is available.
> 
> ...


I didn't really word it correctly. Basically I just want to ensure that whatever pump/powerhead I use will give me the parameters based on the size of foam I would be using. 
From my reading the turnover rate needs to stay in the 2-4 range. As I understand it this will increase the contact time between the water and bacteria to do its thing. 

Yes, after looking at some more filter media I see that it will be 2" minimum. Thanks for the help!


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## ForensicFish (May 19, 2013)

While I believe adding bio media to tanks is important (I have ppi foam all over my tank and sump), I think we as aquarists tend to give more credit to bio media than necessary or even what its worth. 

If you ran your 10 gallon shrimp tank with substrate, plants and wood/rock, the bacteria colonization would occur anyway all over your tank. Adding bio media will allow for more colonization as there is more surface area to do so. So you could either have bio media or none at all and you would still achieve the same results. With that said, having extra bio media might help "polish" the water a bit and it definitely provides food for your shrimp as stuff accumulates and grows on it.

Still keep your concept and get this tank going. I just wouldn't be so concerned with the water turnover and bacteria colonization. If you cycle the tank properly and do the required maintenance, your tank will flourish regardless of the amount of bacteria colonization from your mattenfilter.


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## tankedtyler (Oct 24, 2014)

I think what really attracts me to this set-up is the total DIY aspect. I am going to try to stay in the parameters just to play along with how the filter should properly function (even if I can't get it just right). 
I have slowly, but surely, jumped on the bio > mechanical bandwagon. Don't get me wrong, mechanical is necessary and important, but it is not what I focus on for filters. The one exception being my turtle tank, but I focus on everything for that. :icon_surp
If set up properly though I can see this as a huge benefit: a filter that wont eat up my livestock, a filter that could potentially feed my livestock (or at least serve as a meal station), hiding all my gear and possibly more media like floss, and its very quiet. To top it all off its a very low maintenance build once set-up


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## ForensicFish (May 19, 2013)

Good luck. Have patience. Have fun.


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## knm<>< (Mar 18, 2010)

I hope you post this build. I really like this filtration method. If I didn't have a reef ready tank, I might consider this as an alternative to the DIY wet/dry filter I will be making soon. I think you'll have good results even if you aren't spot on with the design specs.


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## themountain (Oct 20, 2014)

tankedtyler said:


> After doing a lot of reading I have decided to try my own DIY HMF. I have seen a few videos where they are shown as being really shrimp friendly due to buildup along the actual filter and low flow levels. I like the idea of this, even if it takes up nearly a gallon + of swimming room. I can see myself growing something along the sides of the filter as well.
> 
> My question, does anyone know how I can properly move the water at the 2.5 turnover and 7.5 cm/min while also using the max surface area of the foam. Basically, I plan to use a 10 gallon (37.9 L) and want to place an ~11x12 inch pad on the left side of the tank, so it would be the entire height and width of the tank. (picture attached for reference)
> The pad I am looking at using is the 30 PPI in either a 1" or 2" width.
> ...


Here is the calculator...but its all in german :tongue:

http://www.deters-ing.de/Berechnungen/Berechnungen.htm#Mattengroesse
You have to give me your tank size in liter and your measurements in cm and I do it for you , if you want 
Edit..I checked it with the measurements you had in the first post and thats the result:
A = ( Q / 60 * 1000) / (A) 
Powerhead Q (ltr/h)250	size of filterA (cm2)840(30cmx28cm)	=	v flow velocity (cm/Minute)4.960cm

..so you are in the limits


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## tankedtyler (Oct 24, 2014)

Once I have collected the supplies I will likely start a tank journal. I have heard a lot of good things about this filter, especially for shrimp and I have seen several success stories for planted tanks.

Thanks for checking the numbers! That's roughly what I came too as well but wanted some peer review. After reading more between class today I have basically decided to use a ~35 gph pump.


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## lochaber (Jan 23, 2012)

I just ran through a real quick estimation, but I think for using an 11x12 block of foam, you'd want something in the 70-140 gph range.


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## themountain (Oct 20, 2014)

yop...70 gph is right in the ballpark....with a smaller pump the flow time through the filter is too long...not that this is reeeally critical


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

Cut a hole through the mattenfilter. 
Insert a Koralia or similar style of power head so only the outlet shows on the tank side. You will be using a very small one, so the rest of it might be buried in the poret, or just the motor sticking out the back, into the void between filter and tank wall. 

The Koralia and similar styles have a large area of intake, so the hope is that it will draw enough water through the poret to spread out the flow over more of the area. It won't really- there will be more flow next to it, and almost none on the far ends. 
This style of power head creates a gentler flow of water for the shrimp. Put a net around the Koralia, shrimp can go 'upstream' and get into it. 

Next idea gets more complex, and involves building a manifold behind the poret with several inlets in the form of a spray bar (as many as you want) in various locations behind the poret. For example, drill 1/2" thin wall PVC with 1/4" holes every 2", and place 3 of these behind the poret. Then route it through a traditional power head with an adapter that connects it to whatever pipes you use (ie: 1/2" PVC). This will spread out the intake over the poret, but creates a stronger blast on the shrimp side from one location from the power head.


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## tankedtyler (Oct 24, 2014)

So is the general consensus about ~70 gph? Cause that would be fine with me, as I felt the ~35 gph would be far to low of flow. Plus an 80 gph adjustable flow is somehow cheaper than the low gph pumps I looked at.
I like the powerhead option, and the spray bar idea gives me some food for thought. I will look at pricing and size options between class today.

Thanks for the help guys!


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## heinz357 (Oct 4, 2014)

Going through the whole HM on a budget thing myself, 18x10x10 tank, 3 stage koi pond filter foam held flat between two sheets of egg crate mesh.

Set up 3 weeks ago, and is nearly cycled, one more week should nail it! Currently using a small 250lpm powerhead, exiting through the front of the filter. So far, absolutely silent, apart from the odd few bubbles pulled down bu the outflow pipe.

Downside is the amount of tankspace it takes up, but the plus sides are great water quality and very low setup cost!

Keep at it, ignore the naysayers, and make sure, when you setup initially, to add your Stability, or other favorite bacterial fluids, appropriate to the size of the filter, rather than quantity of water, otherwise it will take an Age to mature thoroughly!


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Diana said:


> Cut a hole through the mattenfilter.
> Insert a Koralia or similar style of power head so only the outlet shows on the tank side. You will be using a very small one, so the rest of it might be buried in the poret, or just the motor sticking out the back, into the void between filter and tank wall.
> 
> The Koralia and similar styles have a large area of intake, so the hope is that it will draw enough water through the poret to spread out the flow over more of the area. It won't really- there will be more flow next to it, and almost none on the far ends.
> This style of power head creates a gentler flow of water for the shrimp. Put a net around the Koralia, shrimp can go 'upstream' and get into it.


When I made my filter I found a plastic pipe in the Home Depot plumbing department that snugly fit over the outlet of my Koralia-type powerhead, and used that to keep the powerhead well back in the filter chamber. I think that keeps the inlet flow through the foam much more uniform. I used a Boyu wave maker powerhead, which I haven't seen in a store since then.


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## themountain (Oct 20, 2014)

heinz357 said:


> Downside is the amount of tankspace it takes up, but the plus sides are great water quality and very low setup cost!


Well..you lost a lot of space with your set up..2cm space is all what you need and the filter sponge has to be only 3cm in your case .


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## heinz357 (Oct 4, 2014)

> Well..you lost a lot of space with your set up..2cm space is all what you need and the filter sponge has to be only 3cm in your case .


Agreed completely, unfortunately the thin filter foams were all that was available locally, and are in no way ridgid enough for the task, hence the eggcrate sandwich. Plus side, gives a ridgid surface to affix things to, like plants, pumps, heaters etc...

Could have also saved space by turning the pump sideways and using a 90deg angle for outflow, but I think it would have killed the flow from the tiny pump too much?

Anyway, not going to derail OP's post, just showing support for the chosen methods, and helping to show that it can be done on a tight budget! roud:


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## tankedtyler (Oct 24, 2014)

heinz357 said:


> Anyway, not going to derail OP's post, just showing support for the chosen methods, and helping to show that it can be done on a tight budget! roud:


No derailment at all! I will be biting the bullet and purchasing poret foam from swisstropicals, this seems to be one of the better hmf filter pads. 

Can anyone recommend a powerhead or pump to use? I have a few in mind, but as I have never really used one I am not sure what to go for. Brand names are welcome, but if you knew of ones specifically that could fit my needs that would be amazing.

Bump:


Hoppy said:


> When I made my filter I found a plastic pipe in the Home Depot plumbing department that snugly fit over the outlet of my Koralia-type powerhead, and used that to keep the powerhead well back in the filter chamber. I think that keeps the inlet flow through the foam much more uniform. I used a Boyu wave maker powerhead, which I haven't seen in a store since then.



I like this idea. I had planned to have the pump or powerhead suctioned to the glass in order to give that ~3 cm gap that some recommend for a more uniform flow through the pad.


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## dpod (Sep 16, 2014)

I'm intrigued by the idea of this Hamburg Matten Filter; I had never heard of it before! Conceptually, isn't it the same idea as an undergravel filter? (obviously it's a vertical wall of foam)


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## tankedtyler (Oct 24, 2014)

dpod said:


> I'm intrigued by the idea of this Hamburg Matten Filter; I had never heard of it before! Conceptually, isn't it the same idea as an undergravel filter? (obviously it's a vertical wall of foam)


Not exactly. The filter sponge acts as a massive wall of biological filtration, and if you can get the flow rates correct what you're left with is a massive bacteria wall. Mechanically this thing is not great, but it will do well for anything that is floating in the water and small (detritus or food particles). For what I plan to use it for in this tank it will work well (I hope). It also needs little to no maintenance, with filter pads running anywhere from 12 months to a few years or more. It also has the possibility of being planted itself without hampering the flow TOO much, over time it would have to be controlled though. 

If you are really interested in the filter I would do some research. There are pros and cons to this filter method, so like any filter, you have to do some reading. This forum has a pretty good, and long, post over an HMF experiment a few forum members did. I can try to find it again, I know Hoppy was a big part of that one. There are also a few other sites that I can list for you if you would like.


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## ForensicFish (May 19, 2013)

Any power head or internal filter will work fine. Generally you want to turn your tank over around 5 times per hour, but it's not concrete. So anything around 50 to 70 gph will do so. You could even go lower if you wanted. It's all personal preference.

The foam ppi can also determine what power head or filter you want to use. The higher the foam ppi, the larger the power head / filter you want to use to draw the water through.


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## tankedtyler (Oct 24, 2014)

ForensicFish said:


> Any power head or internal filter will work fine. Generally you want to turn your tank over around 5 times per hour, but it's not concrete. So anything around 50 to 70 gph will do so. You could even go lower if you wanted. It's all personal preference.
> 
> The foam ppi can also determine what power head or filter you want to use. The higher the foam ppi, the larger the power head / filter you want to use to draw the water through.


Yes! I have been doing some more reading on specific uses for different PPI foam. I am leaning towards 45 PPI as that seems to have a lower instance of larvae making their way through the foam. So with that in mind, I will be looking at a filter on the higher end. 
I am also emailing the owner at swisstropics as they seem to specialize in the HMF filter market and could be a wealth of knowledge.


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## tankedtyler (Oct 24, 2014)

Just ordered my poret foam from swisstropical.com.
I decided to throw out the pump idea and I will be using the jetlifter that is provided by swiss. I emailed the owner Stephan and he instantly got back to me offering advice and even product recommendations to help me out. His site also has a lot of info on the subject. I went with 45ppi black foam with a medium 20mm jetlifter and a holder.


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## ForensicFish (May 19, 2013)

It is not cheap, but I swear by poret foam at the moment. You should post your build as it will help others in the future. Cheers.


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## tankedtyler (Oct 24, 2014)

ForensicFish said:


> It is not cheap, but I swear by poret foam at the moment. You should post your build as it will help others in the future. Cheers.


Still, for $36 I am not really complaining. 
I will be doing just that as soon as everything comes in!


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