# How To Do A Fishless Cycle ?



## Swan900 (Apr 27, 2010)

I have been doing some research and I have decided against a 'Fish-In' cycle. So my friends has taken my 6 Amano Shrimp off me for a week or two whilst I cycle my tank. I have some key questions in which I would love some help with! I have a 17g lightly planted tank, all new hardware with no 'used' filter media (check my signiture for visual reference). I will also add properly kept Tetra SafeStart before the ammonia to build the bacteria levels and reduce time.


*1) How much of my ammonia (9.5% with just water) should I add for my 17g over the course of the cycle?*

*2) Are any water changes required in a Fishless Cycle?*

*3) Roughly how long will this take with my tank?*

Thanks very much for the help in advanced!


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## q8vw (Apr 20, 2010)

Well,

I've cycled two tanks with fish-less method, 15gallon, 128 gallon.

I used a raw piece shrimp from the refrigerator and removed it's skin, then I've placed it in a pantyhose with a weight (Rock or anything heavy) and tied it in the middle of the tank, it will get dissolved and put out ammonia, each tank took me about 2 weeks, i used to have liquid API test kit to measure the Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate to check if the tank is cycled.


No need to change water during the cycle, once you have 0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrite, about 10ppm nitrate that mean you're cycled.

Also you don't have to use Tetra Safe Start, but I've heard from some members it helps. 

Then you have to add fish slowly.

Yours,


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## Swan900 (Apr 27, 2010)

Ok as of now I have just added a load of SafeStart bacteria which was kept properly. Ive added my ammonia of which is 5ppm in my water. Hoping for a speedy cycle! Will keep everything updated and test for Nitrite tommorow. I know its early but you never know. Thanks!


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## Envybianchi (May 16, 2010)

In the past, I've always cycled my tanks for 2 weeks or more with a feeder fish or with a couple of feeder shrimps or taking some substrate, a filter media sponge or a piece of drift wood from a mature disease free tank with no problems whatsoever. 

Out of curiosity, what is the major benefit with a fish-less tank cycle? I am planning on getting a 50 gallon tank in the future to replace my 10 gallon. My plan was to transfer existing gravel, filter, water & fish from the 10 gallon to the 50 gallon. If there is a major benefit to start from scratch with the fish-less cycle method, please enlighten me. BTW, I don't have any algae or snail problems. 

I've read several reviews about Tetra's Safe Start which is amazing & fantastic for those who are impatient & wish to add fish immediately without the 2 to 3 week wait.


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## Larry Grenier (Apr 19, 2005)

I've cycled numerous freshwater and saltwater tanks without "torturing" any creatures in the process. Go to a petstore or find another person with an aquarium and ask if you can have their old filter media or a bucket of water or a scoop of substrate from their aquarium. Put some fish food in the tank to decompose and "feed" the bacteria. That's it. Then, as suggested, add fish slowly after that so the bacteria population can adjust the changing bio-load. I never understand why folks insist on "torturing" a fish just to start a cycle.

I never "buy" bacteria either, it occurrs naturally.


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## Swan900 (Apr 27, 2010)

Ok, I have been cycling my tank now for 3 days. The ammonia went down on the third day by 1ppm so I dosed more to keep it at 4ppm. I was just wondering when will the nitrites start showing up due to I tested for them today and they were 0ppm. Thanks!


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 4, 2008)

It may take at least a week before the nitrites will begin to spike.


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## insta (Jan 27, 2010)

Crank your heater. Seriously, run that sucker at 85F while doing a fishless cycle. Keep dosing to keep ammonia at 5ppm until you see nitrites appear. At that point, only dose enough to keep ammonia at 3ppm. Do a waterchange whenever nitrites go above 5ppm. When nitrites stay at zero, lower the heater down to the proper temperature and dump in all the fish you want.


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

Fishless Cycle
You too can boast that "No fish were harmed in the cycling of your new tank"
Cycling a tank means to grow the beneficial bacteria that will help to decompose the fish waste (especially ammonia). These bacteria need ammonia to grow. There are 3 sources of ammonia that work to do this. One is fish. Unfortunately, the process exposes the fish to ammonia , which burns their gills, and nitrite, which makes their blood unable to carry oxygen. This often kills the fish.

Another source is decomposing protein. You could cycle your tank by adding fish food or a dead fish or shellfish. You do not know how much beneficial bacteria you are growing, though. 

The best source of ammonia is... Ammonia. In a bottle. 

Using fish is a delicate balance of water changes to keep the toxins low (try not to hurt the fish) but keep feeding the bacteria. It can take 4 to 8 weeks to cycle a tank this way, and can cost the lives of several fish. When you are done you have grown a small bacteria population that still needs to be nurtured to increase its population. You cannot, at the end of a fish-in cycle, fully stock your tank. 

The fishless/ammonia cycle takes as little as 3 weeks, and can be even faster, grows a BIG bacteria population, and does not harm fish in any way. 

Both methods give you plenty of practice using your test kit. 

How to cycle a tank the fishless way: 

1) Make sure all equipment is working, fill with water that has all the stuff you will need for the fish you intend to keep. Dechlorinator, minerals for GH or KH adjustments, salt, if you are creating a brackish tank... 

2) Add some source of the bacteria. Used filter media from a cycled tank is best, gravel or some decorations or a few plants... even some water, though this is the poorest source of the beneficial bacteria. 
Bacteria in a bottle can be a source of these bacteria, but make sure you are getting _Nitrospiros spp_ of bacteria. All other ‘bacteria in a bottle’ products have the wrong bacteria. It is not necessary to add bacteria, they will find the tank even if you do not. However, adding some will get the cycle going a bit faster. 

3) Add ammonia until the test reads 5 ppm. This is the non-sudsing, no-fragrance-added ammonia that is often found in a hardware store, discount stores, and sometimes in a grocery store. The concentration of ammonia may not be the same in all bottles. Try adding 5 drops per 10 gallons, then allowing the filter to circulate for about an hour, then test. If the reading isn't up to 5 ppm, add a few more drops and test again. (Example, if your test reads only 2 ppm, then add another 5 or so drops) Some ammonia is such a weak dilution you may need to add several ounces to get a reading. One bottle of ammonia that I used needed 1/8 cup in my 46 gallon bowfront tank to reach 5 ppm. 

4) Test for ammonia daily, and add enough to keep the reading at 5 ppm. 

5) Several days after you start, begin testing for nitrites. When the nitrites show up, reduce the amount of ammonia you add so the test shows 3ppm. (Add only half as much ammonia as you were adding in part 4) Add this reduced amount daily from now until the tank is cycled. 

If the nitrites get too high (over 5 ppm), and seem to stay up for several days or a week, not coming down, reduce the amount of ammonia you are adding, or even skip a day. If this does not budge the nitrites, then a partial water change may help. It can happen that the bacteria growth is slowed because of the high nitrites. 

6) Continue testing, and adding ammonia daily. The nitrates will likely show up about 2 weeks after you started. Keep monitoring, and watch for 0 ppm ammonia, 0 ppm nitrite and rising nitrates. 

7) Once the 0 ppm ammonia and nitrites shows up it may bounce around a little bit for a day or two. Be patient.
You can test the system by adding more than a regular dose of ammonia, and it should be able to handle it. 
If you will not be adding fish right away continue to add the ammonia to keep the bacteria fed. 

8) When you are ready to add the fish, do at least one water change, and it may take a couple of them, to reduce the nitrate to safe levels (as low as possible, certainly below 10 ppm) 

9) You can plant a tank that is being cycled this way at any point during the process. If you plant early, the plants will be well rooted, and better able to handle the disruption of the water change. 
Yes, the plants will use some of the ammonia and the nitrates. They are part of the nitrogen handling system, part of the biofilter, they are working for you. Some plants do not like high ammonia, though. If a certain plant dies, remove it, and only replace it after the cycle is done. 

Tetra Safe Start is one of the products that has the actual species of bacteria you are trying to grow in the tank. It might be that you will not see nitrite at all, but the bacteria remove the ammonia quickly, and the next population are right on the job turning the nitrite into nitrate. Keep on what you are doing, keep monitoring it.


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## Swan900 (Apr 27, 2010)

Ok I have another question! I want to do a 50% water change as my water is murky from the Mopani Wood I belive as well as my gravel looks as it is in the very early stages of getting algae (due to no Amano Shrimp!). Is this ok whilst im cycling my tank? Will it harm or deplete the bacteria? I will bring the ammonia levels back up after I have done the change. Thanks!


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

Water changes during a fishless cycle are not a problem. The bacteria is pretty much growing on the surfaces, not in the water. 

If you jump start the cycle by adding any bacteria from any source I would hold off on water changes for a few days after adding the bacteria. These bacteria may be in the water, looking for a home for a couple of days. They soon settle into the filter media and other places, though.


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## Swan900 (Apr 27, 2010)

Finnaly! I checked my water parameters today on day 6 and my ammonia levels have plumeted from 4ppm to 0.50ppm in a day or two. Nitrites are also now testable and are at 0.50ppm. Im going to do a 50% water change due to very murky waters and a little bit of algae starting to appear. I will then get my ammonia levels back up to 3ppm. Is this all ok? Also how long till Nitrates appear? Thanks!


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## Swan900 (Apr 27, 2010)

I tested for Nitrates today out of curiosity. Today I test 0.50ppm ammonia, 1ppm Nitrites and 20ppm Nitrates. Is this ok? The Nitrates seem very high. But when I tested my water source (tap water) it did register 10ppm anyway. So shall I dose my ammonia back up to 3ppm or leave it until I get 0ppm ammonia and nitrites? Thanks!


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## insta (Jan 27, 2010)

Keep dosing ammonia. Nitrates can be a little higher, it isn't going to hurt anything past a few critters that are actually nitrate-sensitive.


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

By starting the cycle with Nitrospiros (I think you used Tetra Safe Start?) your fishless cycle will finish up much faster than the 3 weeks that is common when starting with no bacteria. 

Seeing nitrates rising and the other 2 dropping is a sign that you are in the last few days. 
Yes, so whatever water changes you want, and keep bringing the ammonia back up to 3 ppm daily. 

When the ammonia and nitrite both can reach 0 ppm overnight then the bacteria are well enough established to add fish. Do another water change, or even 2 of them back to back to get the nitrate as low as possible. 10 ppm is not a problem, and in a planted tank the plants ought to keep it pretty close to that in spite of adding fish food. 

By doing the fishless cycle you have grown enough bacteria to fully stock the tank all at one time.


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## Swan900 (Apr 27, 2010)

Ahh brilliant! Thanks guys for the help. Literally wouldnt be able to have done this without your help! Thanks!


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## Swan900 (Apr 27, 2010)

Ok so I think Im nearing the end of the cycle in my tank. I registered 0.25ppm this morning so I added 25 drops of ammonia, waited an hour and read it at about 1ppm. I then added another 25 to boost it futhermore, went to work and registered the same 1ppm 8 hours after adding the ammonia. So the ammonia is being rapidly reduced daily by the bacteria. My Nitrite reading this morning was 3ppm and Nitrate 20ppm and pH was 7.4, is this all ok? Thanks!


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## Swan900 (Apr 27, 2010)

I did a test this morning for ammonia and nitrites. I got 0ppm ammonia which is very good, but I also read 5ppm Nitrites. I fed 25 drops of ammonia to not starve the ammonia bacteria but its just going to increase the Nitrite level isnt it? In _Diana's_ fishless cycling guide on page 1 of the thread it reccomends to skip a day if the Nitrites dont budge. So if its the same on Friday will it be ok for me to skip a day or two of dosing ammonia or will that starve the ammonia eating bacteria? Thanks!


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## SHMaRiM (Apr 21, 2010)

I'd like to know this aswell. I'm at basically the same stage. I add around 40 drops a day and the ammonia is 0ppm in less than 18hrs. However the nitrite is very high. My kit doesn't test over 5ppm and it is showing higher than that. I did a 75% water change the other day, dosed ammonia, waited a day, and my nitrite is still >5ppm. Should I lay off on the ammonia?

How long will my nitrite spike for? Nitrites been up for about 4-5 days now and hasn't budged.


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## insta (Jan 27, 2010)

The bacteria that convert nitrite to nitrate don't do well when the nitrite is over 5ppm. Do water changes to bring that number back to a testable amount, like 3ppm, and keep up with the rest of it.


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## SHMaRiM (Apr 21, 2010)

Thankyou for the info.


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## Swan900 (Apr 27, 2010)

I just left mine for 24 hours and it dropped to 0.50ppm. I think Im very nearly done now. Thanks!


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

Yes, toward the end the bacteria will get really good at lowering the ammonia and for a while the nitrite removing bacteria have not yet caught up. You can skip adding ammonia, or do a water change to drop the nitrite. Nitrite at 5 ppm seems to slow the growth of these bacteria. 
When the ammonia and the nitrite both read 0 ppm 24 hours after adding ammonia then the cycle is done. You might give it another day or so, just in case the first time it hits 0 and 0 it is a fluke, but basically it is done. 
Have a look at the nitrate. If the tank was planted the plants may be keeping the nitrate low, but otherwise it may be into triple digits, yes, the low hundreds. That is really high nitrate! 
So do a couple of water changes (perhaps 2 x 90%) to really drop the nitrates before adding fish. 

If it will be a while before adding fish keep on feeding the bacteria with ammonia @ 3 ppm once a day. Check the GH and KH. If these are dropping, then either add some, or do a water change. The bacteria need some minerals, too. GH and KH of 3 degrees or more is good, and higher is not a problem at all.


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## Swan900 (Apr 27, 2010)

Because I have stopped dosing ferts during the cycle my plants are looking a little bit drag. But Im a bit scared of dosing ferts due to Theres a fair bit of algae in my tank. Theres Diatoms on some of my plants and my substrate is starting to be covered in a deepish green algae. Should I not dose the ferts due to the algae or dose away? Or is this algae here due to the cycle and no Amanos? Thanks!


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

I would manually remove as much of the algae as you can. It is OK to take the tank apart (well, sort of) while you are doing the fishless cycle. Clean it up. 
Dose ferts, add CO2. Add enough ammonia to bring it up to 3 ppm.
When the plants are really thriving algae slows way down. 

This will have little or no effect on the growth of nitrifying bacteria. 

When the tank is established the bacteria and plants will share the duties of biofiltration, so there is not problem in getting the plants thriving now, while you are still growing bacteria. 

The only problem would be if you did a major plant trim or removal right as you add fish. Neither plants nor bacteria have the reserves to handle the waste when such a big part of the bio filter had been removed and the tank has not been established for very long.


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## SHMaRiM (Apr 21, 2010)

Dosing ferts can actually be a good thing to prevent algae. Algae appears when it is competing with the plants for light,co2, or ferts. As Diana stated, when the plants are thriving algae isn't as much of an issue. But I would remove as much of the algae as you can. You dont necessarily need to remove it from the tank, but wipe it away. It should float to the bottom and be eaten away. If you trim, replant the cuttings, then wait a few days for roots to develope. That way your not loosing a big part of your biofilter.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Have you thought of adding some plants to speed up cycling. Hornwort is a good plant for this. I have seen it at PetSmart for a few dollars. It needs very little light.


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

Since the tank is already planted, I think getting those plants to really get growing will help more than introducing more plants.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Opps! Didn't read that he already had plants.


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## Swan900 (Apr 27, 2010)

Thanks for the help guys. The thing is its going to be hard to remove the algae on the gravel due to its carpeted a small area. Shall I just remove the stones. Another problem I have is that Im a little scared of doing a substrate vac due to I have ProFlora under my 1" gravel and if I suck that up a brown cloud will go everywhere in my water. Does anyone know a way round this so I can get rid of some of my algae on the gravel? Thanks again for the help!


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## Francis Xavier (Oct 8, 2008)

Easiest way to do a fishless cycle is to simply use aquasoil, it leaches ammonia.


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## Swan900 (Apr 27, 2010)

Ive near enough cycled my tank now, but thanks for the info. But the problem I have is that Im a little scared of doing a substrate vac due to I have ProFlora under my 1" gravel and if I suck that up a brown cloud will go everywhere in my water. Does anyone know a way round this so I can get rid of some of my algae on the gravel? Thanks again for the help!


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## Swan900 (Apr 27, 2010)

Just out of curiousity how long will the bacteria last in my tank without any added ammonia or fish? Im not going to do it but it was just a thought. Also I am going to be adding a Fluval External 105 to my tank as well as the current filter which is not as affective. By doing this will it mess up my cycling process with the tank or will the bacteria still be effecient? Thanks!


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

A) Vacuum only by barely touching the gravel. Vacuuming won't get rid of algae even if you deep vacuumed. Depending on the type of algae you might kill it with H2O2, Excel or something else. Do not overdose these or you risk killing the nitrifying bacteria. 

B) Nitrifying bacteria need ammonia to survive. Here are some ideas, but each situation is different:
Keep the full population growing and reproducing in an aquarium by feeding them Add ammonia to 3 ppm, and check daily. You can also feed them with fish food (as much as if there were fish in the tank, or more) or other protein source. 
Allow some to die: a few days, not much die off (there may be minor sources of ammonia in a developing tank). 
Allow a lot to die: A week or so with no food. At this point the bacteria (Nitrifying and other microorganisms) that die are producing the ammonia that are keeping the others alive. 
Most or all will die: A couple of weeks. If the tank was better established, with a lot more microorganisms then the nitrifying bacteria will not die out totally for even longer, but overall life needs food. If you are not feeding the other microorganisms then there is not a cycle of life going on in the tank, except at the very low level represented by how much dust may land in the tank as food. 

In a filter: If the filter is closed, then the nitrifying bacteria will die of oxygen starvation pretty fast (few minutes to an hour or so, depending on the temperature). If the filter is running on an empty tank, or even a bucket of water you can keep the bacteria alive by feeding them. Otherwise they will die at the same rate suggested for the empty but running tank. 

C) Adding another filter mid-cycle will not mess up the cycle. It can help by giving the bacteria more room to colonize, and improving the water flow for better oxygenation. Keep the current filter going, or move the partially populated media from the old filter to the new. Then the bacteria established from the old filter will still be part of the system. There is not very much bacteria growing on the actual surface of the filter itself. You can remove it, as long as you keep the media in the system.


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## Swan900 (Apr 27, 2010)

Thanks Diana for the help AGAIN! I wont be able to add any media from my old one so how long will it take for the bacteria to colonise in the new filter. Will is see changes or fluctuations in my water parameter readings when I add my new filter? It should be here tomorrow! Thanks!


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

I didn't read the thread much at all, but the best way is to fill the tank up with plants and pour in some mulm from another tank. I usually wait a month or two to let the plants to grow out before adding any fauna but you should be good to go the next day or so with no problems. With heavily planted tanks and filter media jumpstarted with old media from other tanks you shouldn't have to worry about a cycle.

-Andrew


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I'd run both filters together for about 2 weeks before removing the old one. I'd keep an eye on your water parameters with daily tests for a few days after just to be on the safe side.

I assume you've stocked the tank with fish at this point?


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## Swan900 (Apr 27, 2010)

lauraleellbp said:


> I'd run both filters together for about 2 weeks before removing the old one. I'd keep an eye on your water parameters with daily tests for a few days after just to be on the safe side.
> 
> I assume you've stocked the tank with fish at this point?


Theres no fish in it at the moment. Its been about 2 months now of cultivating bacteria so there should be more than enough! I put in 70 drops of ammonia into my tank and within 5 hours its 0ppm ammonia and nitrite. So thats good.

Im not getting rid of the old filter. If you look at my journal in my signiture you will see that the filter the setup came with is fixed internal so for some more effceient and effective filtration Im adding a Fluval 105 External alongside my Juwel 280. Will the bacteria build up in the new one naturally or will I have to add some more? Thanks for the help!


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## bbehring (Jul 10, 2009)

Swan, the bacteria will colonize your new filter media naturally. Just get it started up.


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## Swan900 (Apr 27, 2010)

bbehring said:


> Swan, the bacteria will colonize your new filter media naturally. Just get it started up.


Thats what Im going to do. Maybe squeeze a little mulm from filter one just to quicken things up in the new filter. Fish soon! Thanks!


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

Keep on bringing the ammonia up to 3 ppm each day and there will be a big bacteria population. It will grow in the new filter without any help, but the more help you give it the faster it will grow. 

Since the other filter is cycled, go ahead and add fish. Then you do not need to keep feeding the bacteria. The fish will do that for you.


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## Swan900 (Apr 27, 2010)

Cheers Diana. Got it all sorted now. Got some fish in already.

8 Harlequin Rasboras
1 Male Moontail Betta

Need a nice bottom feeder to go with my shrimp too. Cant seem to find a Pitbull Pleco around here though. I will post pictures soon of them its just my camera isnt so good and the harlequins move so quick there just a blur! Thanks again for the help!


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## KShoes (Sep 29, 2009)

Heres a question. I currently have a 20 gallon and just purchased a 55 gallon. I plan on moving everything (substrate, plants, filter, and of course the fish) to the new tank. Do I still need to cycle when I'm probably bringing half my bacteria population with me to the new tank? The issue with maintaining the 20g while cycling the 55g is that the only available space in my apartment is where my 20g setup is. Any feedback is welcome.

Additional info:
Current Stock:
1 SAE 
6 harlequin Rasboras
3 Amano Shrimps
3 Panda Cories
1 Pygmy Cory
1 Nerite Snail

Current Plants:
Bunch of rotalas (rounditfolia, singapore, green, indica)
anubias nana petite
fissidan fontanus
Some other plants I can't remember the name of.

Current Equipment:
Aquaclear 50
40 pounds of substrate

Tank has been running for about 8 months.


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

Bacteria population is roughly:
50% in the filter
25% on the upper 1/2" of the substrate
25% everywhere else, on all the surfaces of the tank, including on plant leaves, driftwood and rough surfaces. Less on smooth surfaces. 

To do this move I would conserve bacteria like this:
1) Move the established filter to the new tank, or at least the filter media. The bacteria cling to the fibers, so a quick rinse to get rid of the worst of the gunk on the filter is fine. 
2) Scoop out the upper 1/2" of gravel or whatever is in the old tank. The bacteria thrive in the oxygen rich area at the upper level of the substrate. Put this substrate into several nylon stockings or mesh bags. Put them in the new tank where there is a good flow of water. If you want to use the rest of the substrate in the new set up, go for it! If you want the same material as a cap that you have just put into nylon stockings, that is just fine. Add it last so it stays on top; no need to keep it in the nylons. 
3) Move as much as possible everything else. Do not let these things dry out. The bacteria does not have to be under water, but does best in a humid place. Maybe put some of these things in a bucket with some water (few inches) and cover it until the things are needed. 

If you think there may still be a problem then add one of the products with the actual species of nitrifying bacteria. Look for _Nitrospiros sp_. All other products are a waste of money. Use some of it when you make the change. Keep the bottle in the fridge and add some whenever you add more fish. 

Another way to help, if you have time, is to run the new filter on a bucket of water (square storage box works well for HOB filters) and add ammonia to the bucket, just like the fishless cycle. This will grow a starter colony in the new filter media that might be just enough cushion to make up for bacteria loss during the transfer. 

If you ended up with several things in the new tank that you want to remove, (you just keep them until the bacteria have colonized the new tank) then remove one item a week until all the things are gone. This provides a slow transition and allows the bacteria population to build. 

Another way to help a new set up is to add a lot of the faster growing plants (Wisteria, anacharis, many stem plants) and let them be the nitrogen sink the new tank may need. Plants are part of the biological filter too!


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