# Rebornation (56k) UPDATED!!!



## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

I am in the near future, going to get a 120g tank for 150$. i have 90$ atm but i am selling another tank pack for 100$. I have a few ideas about what i'm going to do with my tank, it is going to be a planted, very low tech, aquarium. i have a stocking list with this many fish:

02 Rams
04 Angelfish
15 Rasboras
06 Assorted Rainbowfish
06 Glassfish
02 Gouramis
10 Zebra Danios
06 Black Kuhli Loaches
16 Otocinclus
06 Black Skirt Tetras
15 Rummy Nose Tetras
10 Cories

If you think it needs some tweaking just tell me. For aquascaping i was thinking about something like this:








but really lowlight. (from http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2007.cgi?&op=showcase&category=0&vol=2&id=159)
any idea what i can do for plants for this scape?
i was thinking of adding a piece of driftwood to the left side of the aquascaping so it looks like the base and roots of a tree are digging in. any ideas comments?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Sea,

I personally wouldn't add a clay rock into my tank- you never know what all is in it and how it may affect your water parameters. It is likely to contain a lot of organic material that will decay, and possibly some other things that might affect your pH, kH, and/or gH? Could even contain some toxins...


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

k so nix on the clay rock. anything to help me along?


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## fshfanatic (Apr 20, 2006)

A 120 is a huge step for a n00b. No offense. Illumination and filtration are going to kill you, even with a low light tank.


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## deleted_user_16 (Jan 20, 2008)

so when are you getting the tank?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

So what specific questions do you want answered? LOL

There's a great list of lowlight plants in the Low Tech forum James has put together- I'd start with the ones that look attractive to you and are available in Canada.

For driftwood you could go with Manzanita wood if you like the branchy look (and can locate some in Canada) otherwise Malaysian or Mopani wood is good for big chunky pieces...

For rocks I'd try to find some granite or something along those lines. You need something that's inert in water.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

i like the look of those zebra rocks. so many people say the bigger the tank the easier kept but for planted tanks i guess it's kinda the opposite isn't it? i expect to get the tank in maybe a weeks time, it might end up being at most a month but i don't think it will take that long. for substrate i'm going to use fine black beauty sand and i'm going to research ferts. is there any lowlight list that has the pictures so i can easily tell what i like and don't like? (i'd rather not look up every individual name.)


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

nvm the page gives me links.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

slowly working on my plant list:
Moss on driftwood - flame moss
Backround plants – amazon sword, stargrass, ceylon hygro, 
Grass – dwarf hairgrass, (under driftwood) vallisneria natans


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

Sounds like one heck of a tank 

Take your time. I know its tempting to rush but don't it causes more problems down the road. Research what you're going to do, save money and get the best stuff for the job etc. 

KISS? Or at least Keep it simple. I think low light plants are a good way to start. Moss on driftwood like mentioned, and swords would both be easy to take care of and do great! I would fill that tank up with just those two and call it a day. Then throw in a dozen or so German Blue rams, two dozen or two dwarf corry cats, and a good dozen ottos. Maybe some Bushy nose plecos as well.

Good idea on not using that rock. Try looking into slate or fieldstone, its cheap and looks good. 

Have fun and keep with the pictures!
-Andrew


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

Internet crashed on me, didn't think I posted.

-Andrew


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

you posted. well i have had to do a lot of changes to the fish list and that's what i ended up with. since i already had half the fish i didn't want to get rid of them. i will only add the new plants when i'm ready to. i already have these plants: java ferns, hygro, java moss, amazon sword. just like before every tank i do loads of research. when i first wanted a tank i reaserched SW so i have more knowledge in the sw feild. i think i might dose a bit of diy co2 to keep the algae a bit under control.


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

Just a heads up. You'll pretty much have to go pressurized if you have much light over this. The fluctuation of CO2 will result in algae hell.

I think you should simplify your fish list. Sell off or trade in some fish if thats what it takes, but its not my tank.

-Andrew


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

we'll see how that does and i won't add any fish that i don't have unless i am able.


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

Alright, I know getting fish and whatnot may be a bit more of a pain where you are...

What are you going to use for the mechanical part of your tank?

Light?
Filtration?
Heat?
CO2? (You're probably going to need some)

Then theres...

Substrate?
Flora & Fauna which you've got figured out mainly.

You should start looking into life support for the tank before more into scaping it.

Just a general outline of stuff that you should already have been figuring out.

I really want to see this work for you:thumbsup: 

-Andrew


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Thanks andrew your making this so much easier (not sarcastic). for lighting i'm probably going to end up with 6, 39w bulbs. For filtering i'm doing a few different takes on it. i am going to have 1 fluval 203, 2 emperor 400's and an internal filter that is 200gph so in total i'll have 1100 gph going on. is this too much, to little or fine? how much would a pressurized co2 canister cost? i am going to use 2040 black beauty blasting slag as my substrate, because it's cheap. i need to know what kind of things i should use to control algae? i am going to use ferts for the lack of nutrients in my substrate. and mechanical part?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

A decent quality pressurized CO2 setup runs about $200 in the US- not sure how that would translate in Canadia-land?

Where's your lighting coming from, and what kind of fixtures will these be? You might not need CO2 if these are just CF fixtures?

I'd personally not use the internal filter, IMO they're pains and you'll probably be fine with just the Fluval and HOBs. If you dose CO2 into this tank you'll need to get different filters than the HOBs, though, b/c they will outgas the CO2.

You get the right balance of bioload, ferts, lighting, and Co2 you shouldn't have too much problems with algae.

I've already discussed the bioload with ya a bunch- you've got "fish collectoritis" and I still think the frogs would be best in a diff tank LOL  

What do you mean by "mechanical part"?


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

cf fixtures? i'm selling my aquarium on usededmonton and other ad places for 200$ and i have one interested buyer. and i think i might set up either a qt tank or a small shrimp tank and i'll put my frogs in there.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

oh and if cf is coral life bulbs, yes those are the kinds.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

K i'll be using 1 external filter and 2 hob filters. i will not dose co2 and i will have either 4 or 6 39w coral life bulbs.


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## fishscale (May 29, 2007)

I wouldn't say that a 120 is necessarily harder than a smaller tank, but that is a heck of a lot of equipment you need. It will be expensive. Very expensive. For the kind of tank you are looking to do, you are going to need pressurized (high light foreground). Also, the high light foreground is going to need...high light. Also, if you are going pressurized, you will want canisters, not HOB's. So, estimates that may or may not be accurate (I've had some being-done-with-finals-celebratory drinks):

Pressurized CO2: $200
Light: $300
Canister: $120

+plants, fish, fun stuff...

I think this is what fshfanatic meant.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

right. since this is a low light low tech tank i will not use co2 and so for, will use the hobs.


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## chonhzilla (Apr 22, 2008)

thats bad ass. I wouldn't change a thing. Awesome tank!


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

if it were mine. lol. thats what i want my tank to look like.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

K i have thought about what i'm going to get for plants and i'm going to stay with what i have:
java ferns and moss
amazon swords
hygro


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

I got the aquarium. it has a nice stand and the dimensions are
L-60"
W-18.25"
H-25.5"

Here are the pictures:

























Tomorrow i will be doing the switch of everything from the 60g to the 120g. I will document that tomorrow.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Yup, that's between 110-120 gallons- nice tank!! :thumbsup:

Needs a little cleaning (I'd use some white vinegar, inside and out) and don't forget to fill and test for leaks!


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Well i already cleaned it. thats the before product. do you want the after product?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

hmmm lemme think... NO

JK!


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Pics coming up.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Cleaned up aquarium:
































Any ideas of how i should put the plants in? (i don't have paint so i can't do anything like that.)


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

What do you mean, ideas on how to put the plants in? Like planting tips or 'scaping tips?


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## Kayen (Oct 14, 2007)

More hygro clippings to come for thetank.
Anyways always happy to drop by since you live soo close to myschool.
Anyways the maxijet works great.
Good luck!


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## colinthebassist (Nov 30, 2007)

That tank is great shape, you got a good deal Sea. Looking forward to your build.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Ok i got everything set up. i don't have enough substrate so the plants won't go in properly. since photobuckets bulk uploader aint working for me i will post the pictures in a bit. i think it took me 4h to get everything set up.


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

It looks brand new!


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

I read a little sign behind the black outlining and is said it was made in December 2005!


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## Gottobe (Jan 14, 2008)

that tank cleaned up great man. do you have any idea on what your going to be using for substrate? I'm still torn on what to use in my tank, it gets so expensive when your building a big tank.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Ok, first i put some painting plastic on the ground so if i splashed, it would go onto it, not the carpet.:hihi:











Next i moved everything from under the 60g aquarium to my desk.











Once i did that i put towels on the ground to soak up most of the water.











I had 3 rubbermaid buckets and 2, 5g pails, to put the water from the aquarium in.











I drained all the water out into the rubbermaid buckets.











I put all the fish in one rubbermaid bucket with the decor, plants, heater, light and filter (canister).











I drained all of the 60g asides from a bit of water and the gravel for the 120g. then my dad and my brother put it on the floor.



















I took all the gravel from the 60g and put it in the 120g, added some water, and put some towels on top to keep the debree from flying everywhere.











I started to fill the 120g, and then i put the heater in the aquarium and the fish in the bucket into the aquarium.



















Filled it up some more and put a towel on the side to keep it from dripping.











I took everything out and put the lights and fish in and whoola the final product.



















I have the problem of not enough substrate, so i can't hold the plants in properly. but i will have enough when i slowly buy the substrate and switch it over. that will cost about 250$ canadian. 



















This took me over 4h to complete and now i'm pooped and so are the fish.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Gottabe:
I think i might use ecocomplete and and black flourite mix but here in canada i can only find stuff at 27$ no lower. i will end up paying 300$ for all the substrate and i'm only 13 and i don't have a job. (asides for working for my parents at 4$ an hour)


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## jelisoner (Mar 27, 2008)

i dont know if drsfostersmith ships to Canada but their shipping goes by cost not weight so you can get it shipped from there at a good price


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

roud: A well-executed plan!

Can't wait to see it with some more plants and fish; just go slower this time to give your filters time to establish?

You could just use pea gravel and only put the plant substrate where the plants are... that would save you a bundle? Get a dark brown gravel and the Fluorite Dark and that would probably all look good together?


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Wow, i should of read your post before lol.
I just bought 2 albino cories and 2 zebra danios. I think in stead of buying flourite, that the gravel i have would still grow plants if it is thicker. would it? i think it looks fine the way it is so far. for today i will post my new list of what 

I have:

4 Angelfish
6 Rasboras
1 Assorted Rainbowfish
1 Glassfish
2 Gouramis
6 Zebra Danios
1 Black Kuhli Loaches
3 Otocinclus
5 Black Skirt Tetras
2 Albino Cories
3 African Dwarf Frogs 

I will end up with:

04 Rams
04 Angelfish
20 Rasboras
10 Assorted Rainbowfish
10 Glassfish
02 Gouramis
10 Zebra Danios
10 Black Kuhli Loaches
16 Otocinclus
10 Black Skirt Tetras
10 Assorted Cories
03 African Dwarf Frogs

I wanted some other show kind or fish that won't end up eating my other fish. is there anything you can think of that is nice to look at? i wanted 1 or 2 bigger fish, is there anything that you can think of that will fall into this category? 

When i was picking up my 4 new fish (Albino Cories and Zebra Danios) i told here what size it was and what i had for some fish and she was pretty terrified when i told her that i had 4 angelfish in it, then i explained how i had them in a previous set up and how i set up the new one. After that she asked me how old i was, i said 13, she said, "Darn it 3 more years, we should have somebody like you here."


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Ok i have so much blue green algae (slime algae) and i need a easy way to get rid of all of it. i have algae, algae, algae, for all the algaes these are the types, Beard algae, Slime algae, Diatom algae, Hair algae. is there anything that can solve my algae problem?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Filter, filter, filter. Get more plants. Keep up with the PWC to keep the nutrients under control. Get the frogs into a diff tank. Reduce your photoperiod...

And that last stocking list is a massive bioload- wayyy over what I'd personally recommend? You won't be able to slack on those weekly 50% PWC!


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## fshfanatic (Apr 20, 2006)

What filtration do you have on there? Looks like a very old and small fluval.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

I have 1 internal and 1 external filter that total 400gph right now. i will be getting 1 emperor 400 external filter and i think then it would be okay. the next things i'm going to get is more plants the filter, driftwood and substrate. i'm going to try and sell the aquarium that i just took down for 100$ and that will get me some stuff, but i don't know how much. i need to find a local store that will sell me the sandbox kind of sand. What should i buy after the filter? I'm thinking substrate, driftwood, plants and then fish.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Lauraleellbp:

Since i don't know why the african dwarf frogs are a big bioload i will put them in a separate aquarium because you said so . I am going to try and get as little but as many fish as a can. i think this might work:

04 Rams
04 Angelfish
10 Rasboras
6 Assorted Rainbowfish
6 Glassfish
02 Gouramis
10 Zebra Danios
6 Black Kuhli Loaches
16 Otocinclus
6 Black Skirt Tetras
10 Assorted Cories

Oh and my other question:

I wanted 1 or 2 bigger fish that look nice and will be nice to community fish, is there anything that you can think of that will fall into this category? I will do some research on this.

For plants i will look for more and ask for A LOT, more hygro clippings (viettxboi if your reading this i think i need some more hygro )


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

IMO between those Rams, angels, rainbows, and gouramis you should be pretty good with larger, colorful fish? Don't forget these fish grow!!

I think this last list looks much more reasonable for a 120gal. Don't forget to give the new filter time to establish before getting new fish!


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

I know, lol. Well i was thinking maybe 2-4 bala sharks, i've always liked them and they are suitable for community aquariums. but i will see what happens, and i think they will be the last fish i buy if i do decide to get them. I saw a emp. 400 in the buy sell place and i jumped for it. i just hope my parents will let me buy it.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

For my fish list there are 80 fish so i'm thinking about 3 discus or 6 bala sharks. Question: should i put the sand on the side with the plants or the side with out? AND how do i keep them from seperating?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

whoaaa no discus or balas!

You'd have to totally work that stocking to make it compatible with discus. No angels, no rainbows, probably no black skirts... almost every plant and fish on that list wouldn't be able to handle the temps... and bala sharks only belong in public aquarium-sized tanks; they grow very big very fast.

GL keeping sand separate; I've never been able to?


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## deleted_user_16 (Jan 20, 2008)

I told him, if possible, to return fish, but he sed it wasnt possible, I told him this stocking would be nice:

40 Rummynoses
40 cardinals
50 otos
4 discus, good or bad?

actually, ignore this, it aint happenin.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

i was thinking a plastic lining or something or other. other people do it why can't i? jj. No discus ok. i'm thinking just some interesting ever moving fish/amphibian that will brighten up the aquarium. at first i was thinking a bichir but that will eat my other fish, then a butterfly fish but that will eat my fish, now i just need to do some research. I'm thinking of getting just white sand then if it's cheapish otherwise then i will be using the smaller gravel with a small patch of sand. I'll do as much research as possible.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Fishman:
You know it ain't happening lol. i just get to attached to fish, that's why it's hard for people to give me stocking ideas, lol.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I'm glad you're doing your HW first! :thumbsup:


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## deleted_user_16 (Jan 20, 2008)

it would be nice though, I understand wat u mean.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Waterfaller1 seems to be pretty good at keeping her sand rivers looking nice- might ask for her secret?


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

I'm going to pm her as soon as i can.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Ok i have some hygro polysperma and i've planted it so many times and by the end of the day their up rooted. any idea how i can keep them in the substrate?


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Any idea of how to keep them from being uprooted?


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Bump


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

Plant weights.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

thank you biscuitslayer, 
Ok so what would a plant weight be and how would i use it?


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

they are the little lead strips you see wrapped around plants in the LFS. they are very useful (i love them). you can get them at most LFSs and online.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Ok, i'll be sure to look into them. thank you.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Ok today i went to rona and bought some play sand and it was 6.39 for a 55lb bag and then there were some bags that were 25% off and i took those so i got 110lb for 10.04$. I washed it and put it in. i'll post some pics in a bit.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Ok here are the bags i got the sand in, they had holes in them so thats why i got them 25% off:









Next i washed them as good as i could (what it looked like at the start):

















Then i move all the gravel to one side of my aquarium:

















Now the aquarium is fairly foggy and i put the filters on to suck out a bunch of the gunk then tommorow i will give the sponges a quick clean to get rid of the sand and not the bacteria:

















Once i can see everything i will level out the sand and shape it to how i like. I also did a 15% waterchange to help along. Hope your following along.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

GET THE FISH OUT OF THERE!!!!!!

that much sediment can be harmful, but them in bucket for a while.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

i tried to do that. but i can't see them and the water would be just the same, they haven't shown signs of stress so i will leave them but when the next batch comes i will definitly do that. By tommorow morning or at least 9:00 tonight i'll be able to see the fish and everything so i'll post the pics of them then.


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## ColeMan (Mar 9, 2008)

SeaSerpant said:


> i tried to do that. but i can't see them...they haven't shown signs of stress...


I'm not trying to give you a hard time, just made me laugh (if you can't see them, how can you say they haven't shown any signs of stress)!! Hope your fish have some goggles!!


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

OOPS. thats what i thought when i read it. i can see them when they swim to the front. LOL. Your not. i just wasn't writing clearly. (no pun intended)


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Ok this morining i looked in my aquarium, i can see the back!! but it still is foggy. i did a quick clean of my internal filters sponges and put it back in, hopefully now it will clear up a bit more. Any comments of how i should do my scape?


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

do you have laterite or something under the sand, since sand has no nutrients.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Nope nothing. i'm going fairly low tech, but once i get the money i will be dosing some ferts to supplement that. any idea of what kinds of ferts i should use?


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

I felt like taking some random pictures so here are some macro shots of my oto and my frog:


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## RedMarlboro (Mar 8, 2008)

SeaSerpant said:


> Nope nothing. i'm going fairly low tech, but once i get the money i will be dosing some ferts to supplement that. any idea of what kinds of ferts i should use?


The most common ferts people use is the Seachem line of supplements. All you have to do is read the instruction. Using double the volume helps to fight algae. There are also dry ferts which are micro ferts such as potassism and others. Good luck


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Thanks RedMarlboro, i'll look into the seachem line, see how expensive it is. and i will have to double to volume because i have algae galore.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Ok i did a bit of research and ever since i've researched this hobbie i've always wanted a peacock eel. i have done a bit of research into them and i think i will end up with 1-3 of them. While doing the research you always come up with the small pros and cons about them. Some pros are that their fairly peaceful and will only grow to about a 1' in size (12"). Cons, some people may have varied experiences with them eating their smaller tetras and some people have seen them not even touching them. i will do a fair bit of research into them like: do they like to be in groups or just alone, how well do they do with other fish along with multiple other questions.

I really like the look of moss walls so i want to ask if anybody has any past experiences with a larger tank with a full moss wall.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Bad idea, Sea- I'm sure you'll end up with nice fat eels though! I especially think they'll love the frogs...


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

I'll do a bit more research and we'll see who laughs last. if the eel eats everything you do if not we all sit there content.


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## mpodolan (Mar 27, 2007)

SeaSerpant said:


> Thanks RedMarlboro, i'll look into the seachem line, see how expensive it is. and i will have to double to volume because i have algae galore.


IMO, dry ferts will be a much better idea on a tank this size. Seachem ferts will be much more expensive in the long run. I know Rex ships to Canada, so it might be worth looking into. Also, I may have missed it, but which lighting setup did you go with? It may be possible that you need co2 to prevent algae.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

I was thinking 4x39w so 156w so 1.3w per gallon, unless i need to i won't buy any larger wattage lights. Oh and i'll only get a peacock eel if they have it in another pet store.


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## ColeMan (Mar 9, 2008)

I agree on the dry fert route; not only will you save money, but in my opinion you have more control over your dosing...


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Dry ferts it is.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

SeaSerpant said:


> I'll do a bit more research and we'll see who laughs last. if the eel eats everything you do if not we all sit there content.


You're such a hoot!


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Everything has cleared up nicely and nothing bad has happened. i like to give a fair warning that i will have a few pics up in a sec.


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

Nice frog


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Thanks Orlando
Well took a while but here are the pics of my aquarium:

Full View:
FLASH









WITHOUT









Left side:
FLASH









WITHOUT









Right Side:
FLASH








WITHOUT









Up Close On Plants:










So any ideas that would do good with the araingment i have right now. I will be getting some hygro and ambula from Viettxboi soon (thanks). But my problem is that my cories up root them. so i'm going to have to find a cheap way of rooting the hygro and ambula in. maybe i can ask for a bit longer pieces but i can't ask for too much because that will be like i'm a rude little suck. ENJOY!


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

It's finally all coming together- nice work! Can't wait to see all the plants grown in  

Get some tweezers and make sure all those sword roots are buried if you haven't already though.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

I will most definitly, tommorow, root the plants, the roots have started to photosynthesize so they are turning green.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

I fairly like the one sandy side and the one gravely side, when i buy some driftwood it will go on the gravely side. I won't have any of the fake stuff in there after i get all the plants, i might still keep them in, it all depends on how guilty i feel after i take them out because i think my dad likes the look of them and my mom bought me one.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

You could cover them in moss and no one will ever know they're fake?


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

guess so. might have to get rid of the pots though.


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## rountreesj (Jun 12, 2007)

Ok this will be a long post:

First great tank and actually an ok fish stock. DO NOT AD ANY MORE FISH...untill you have a more matured tank. The fish you have are compatible and are fairly hardy with few or no "odd" needs. You want to have a pretty small number of species in a tank as it adds a sense of cohesiveness and concreteness.

My oppinion on your tank seeing the specs., is to get lost of driftwood and take the gravel out. Don't freak out--I think you should use the driftwood to give it depth and the all sand sustrate would give it a natural simplicity. you can tie moss to the driftwood and ferns like java, phillipene java, narrow leaf java fern, needle leaf java fern, windelov fern, bolbitus fern, etc. My advice to you in this tank is to add mostly, if not all, water column feeders--meaning no sustrate feeders--Like the swords, although you could keep those, just don't get any more rooted plants. From experience I can tell you go ahead and get rid of the fake stuff and the pot. Your parents will understand. Search around and look for some free or cheap ferns, moss, anubias, if you can. Try to use all of the same types of rock and driftwood...you DO NOT want a hodgepodge of plants, wood, rocks etc. You want a flowing piece of your imagination that shows a design and not just a cesspool. Maybe a bit blount, but you get the point.

Get the dry ferts, they will last infinitely longer than the seachem ferts. Check into pressurized CO2. do not do DIY co2 if you can help it because it fluctuates too much and will cause unstable water conditions that will lead to algae. Do frequent water chanes, at least half of the water every other week. Save your money and buy the right things from the start, whenever possible. You have made a few mistakes along the way, so you want to research what you want and ask the experts on here before you do something. No offencce to your intelligence or anything, but they DO KNOW what they are talking about. 

My advice to you is to go on the galleries at aquaforestaquarium.com, adaaust.com, and similar galeries and find a tank you like and try to replicate it. You wont be able to, but the are the best pointers.

Keep this in mind:
1 Slope gives the impression of depth.
2 driftwood and/or rocks is one of the best mid-grounds
3 water column plants are probably the best for your setup
4 use all of the same type of rock driftwood
5 have a limited number of species of fish
6 go all natural if you can
7 keep up a steady maintenance routine
8 save your money and get the good stuff(sometimes more expensive, but worth it)
9 ask the pros the know
10 good luck, if you fail try again, and again, and again, but ask more questions next time.

I know I said some stuff ten times...but keep doing your research, asking questions, but above all...Enjoy it!

One more question, how old are you and how much $ can you put in this tank, because this one can be very nice, but you are looking at about $300-500 in the long run just to get it set up mostly "right".

whew, my fingers are killing me! Good luck!


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Wow. thanks rountreesj, i am 13 and am trying to get a job that has good wages, probably by december i will have a job because 14 yo usually get jobs better (i turn 14 in november) otherwise i might have a job by the summer if i get employed by somebody i know. i have some java ferns but have NO idea of how to tie them properly. if i sell my old aquarium i will have 80$. Now my questions:

1. Can you give me examples of water column plants
2. What should i buy first with the money? 
3. If i get a steady paycheck how much money should i try and sink into it to keep it as going as good as possible?
4. Is there any equipment i should buy?
5. Which stocking list are you refering to?
6. What kind of driftwood should i look for? (bulky stuff, thinner stuff?)

Thanks in advance
SeaSerpant


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

I looked at those sites and i came up with these:

































I still like this one the most:


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

SeaSerpant said:


> Wow. thanks rountreesj, i am 13 and am trying to get a job that has good wages, probably by december i will have a job because 14 yo usually get jobs better (i turn 14 in november) otherwise i might have a job by the summer if i get employed by somebody i know. i have some java ferns but have NO idea of how to tie them properly. if i sell my old aquarium i will have 80$. Now my questions:
> 
> 1. Can you give me examples of water column plants
> 2. What should i buy first with the money?
> ...


Any anwsers?


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

tying ferns can be done in any way that works, here are some i have used:
-putting a rubber band around the rhizome and wood
-doing the same with string
-knotting the rounds around the wood (make a loop and tie a knot).


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

i will try the elastic band one b/c it sounds easily done.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

yeah its the easiest, you can remove it after a month or so if you do it carefully, otherwise wait two monthes so your fern has a better hold on the wood so you dont accidentally rip it off.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

K thank you.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

K not much to report but i have moved the sand across the whole aquarium and took out the gravel, i think i lost a frog under the sand so i am kinda worried.


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## deleted_user_16 (Jan 20, 2008)

y dont u look?!?!?!?!?!? Hurry!!!!!


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Thnxs for the quick reply, i just did and whew i found them all. the frogs usually lounge in the front but only 2 were there. i looked under everything and across the aquarium. I started to sift throught the sand where i move everything to and nothing. i was so worried then i looked across the aquarium, 2 in the front and 1 in the far corner camouflaged into the sand. well thats a load off of my shoulders. i suspected that they would be able to get out from under the sand b/c i tested one frog my slightly burying it (no cruelty meant) and it got out easily. thank goodness for that.


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## tropicalfish (Mar 29, 2007)

SeaSerpant said:


> Any anwsers?


Wow, 13yo and a 120g?!?
I got my 75 when I was 14. (it still is in bad shape)

I personally would ditch HOB filters and go for a few canisters.
There are different options--Rena, Eheim, not sure about the Marineland.

Since the Rena Filstar filters don't cost too much, you could look for some cheap places for maybe getting two xP3's or two xP4's.

The frog will climb out of the sand.


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## fshfanatic (Apr 20, 2006)

The Renas have recently under gone a price increase. They are now not so cheap. The Classic series Eheims are now probably a better buy as they come complete with enough media to completely fill them.


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## Kayen (Oct 14, 2007)

Canisters are expensive here, but Sea i think you should save up for an FX5, i thikn you can get one for $250 if not cheaper, also they pop up in the classifieds of AA from time to time, so take a peep.
Also I'll drop by tmr morning with the ambulia and hygro, and like a crapload of duckweed too. Good progress sorry it's been awhile i've been busy.
Are you still using those CF strip lights from before?
Doesn't look like much light but your plants seem to be fairing well.
Anyways can't wait to see that tank tomorrow.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

13 with a 120
14 with a 75

it makes me sad. im 15 with a 20.


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## deleted_user_16 (Jan 20, 2008)

same here man, got a 20, and I am 14, and it is my only, and first planted tank.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

The size goes down when your age goes up 

Tropicalfish
I was thinking of either getting a filter averaging 100g or get one and make it a total overthrow (maybe 200g) then i can get rid of my internal filter, and put the fluval in storage (my dad will probably end up using it.)

Fshfanatic
I will look for a ehiem since they do come with the media (don't want to go buy some more)

Viettxboi
Thanks for the plants in advance  and i will do some lurking around in the forums and the classified ad sites.

K i will post some pictures tommorow when the water clears up some more.


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## Kayen (Oct 14, 2007)

Look at me ... 15 with a 2.5 and a 33 xD.
Anyways i have all your plants trimmed - here's a what you're getting :








+ a bag full of duckweed and a few salvinia.

Not much .. would've been more if i remembered to dose excel daily.. oh well xD.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

well i have a 3 gallon to, and 6 but its a reef and my dad does all the work for it, so its really like his tank (look cool though).
but still, i used to have the 6 freshwater planted, the 20L, the 3 gal, a 2.5 gal, and a 10 gal. and even added up and then doubled, its still nowhere near 120 gallons.

is that asian ambulia? i couldnt keep it alive on just excel, and it started growing a lot different (nicer too), but slower and slower and eventually it stopped and died. it grew like the federal noxious weed it is though in my tank with CO2.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Wow those are nice. i like that they are longer so maybe they will stay in the ground


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

if you have high light and CO2, your asian ambulia will not only stay in the ground, but give off shoots to grow parallel to the ground and grow more upright stems from each node. but it can, of course, be propagated from cuttings as it is one of the mose invasive plants there are.


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## Kayen (Oct 14, 2007)

Lol yeah i had only one stem a few weeks ago now i have 5 stems. Which grew liek crazy with just light and NO maintenance at all. The tank recieved a wc after 3 weeks of none. And i discovered the shrimp population is booming.
Anyways this stuff should grow no problem for you, once after it gets established it'll be crazy.
And the hygro i'm giving you this time is alot larger than last time.
Oh and don't forget about duckweed. The entire surface was covered with the stuff you get a large bagful : ).
There's a few salvinia in with it too, i personally want to get rid of all the duckweed and keep only salvinia when i have the time.
Anyways, yes it is asian ambulia, it grows uber fast when i dose excel.(dosed at wc's)


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

ya the duckweeds going to go to my dads little betta tank cause he likes the stuff for some reason.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Ok. i have just uploaded some pictures of the aquarium. Enjoy (and comment)
Full tank:

















Right side









Left side









New Plants

















Old Trimmed Plants


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

duckweed works very well with bettas: it absorbs nitrates, does fine in low light, helps keep bubblenests together.

i reccomend letting the smallest asian ambulia float (for faster growth so you can propagate it sooner).
are you planning on getting more plants? or driftwood?
oh and those pots would look much better if you covered the outside with moss (AVOID HAIRNETS, THEY ARE THE SAME AS FISHING NETS AND WORK THE SAME IF FOOD FALLS DOWN IN THEM; use thread). sorry for the caps, but its pretty important, i had 1 fish injured badly from a hairnet, and a betta was killed.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

I will take everything out when the plants grow in otherwise it fills in the space. i will be getting some driftwood in the near future or when i get money. propagate it?


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

its what its called when you snip part of a plant to get 2 plants; propagation. when the stem grow big, you cut it and replant the tip.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

ok. good idea. i'll do that when tommorow.


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## Kayen (Oct 14, 2007)

Ahaha while you got yourself all wet i was laughing my butt off.
Anyways i recommend you go find yourself a pair of tweezers unless you want to soak half your shirt again.
If you want them to fill in faster than do what Marko said snip off the tops and poke them. Once they get established you'll have even more stems popping up.
Also surprised that the ambulia didn't get chowed down on by those angels of yours : P.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

nope they leave the ambulia completly alone. i will cut off the tops of all the tall ones then. can i do that with the hygro?


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## rountreesj (Jun 12, 2007)

yes, you can trim pretty much any stem plants...there is a technique to trimming though...you want it to get bushy at the right height etc.


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## rountreesj (Jun 12, 2007)

sorry I didn't reply to your questions earlier.

you asked what to buy first. not any easy answer, but I think you should get these 3 first:
1. pressurized co2---reg off ebay for less than $100 and a tank off ebay for about $80 get a 10lb.
2. 2 cannisters rated for 75 gallon tanks. for example, 2 rena xp2's or comparable. eheims are great too. don't get cheap knockoffs like jebo! looking at $150-200 here. get the co2 first, hang-ons will work for the time being, just keep your water level up.
3. get a bunch of easy growing stems, cut them in half and let them float. they wil propogate twice as fast...then plant them. 

what was your lighting again...?

water column plants are any kind of ferns, anubias, floating plants, and most stems to an extent. stem plants like a nice sustrate, but sand will have to do for now--it's no better or worse than gravel. but if you want luscious growth like those pics---they use lots of stems and aquasoil. that will be a good investment in the future, but in a 120, that would be $200-300 worth of soil...wait till you have more experience for that...I would suggest in the relatively near future to get about 4-5 bags of a planted substrate for the back...but that is not necessary JUST now.

for driftwood, I suggest manzanita, it is thinner...but again this can wait.

get the plants and co2 first.


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## rountreesj (Jun 12, 2007)

you should also check on swap and shop and craigslist before you buy new and "you could save ten percent or less"...insert little gecko...


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

lol. k i will get the co2 for it but i really have no idea bout co2, so can somebody fill me in?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Aren't you still at 1 wpg? If so, IMO there's really not much point in adding CO2 to this tank without first upgrading your lighting... 

I also think the plants would have a little more impact if you bunched up the plants that are the same species (plant the individual stems an inch or two apart at most)


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

k i'll do that. hygro on one side and ambulia on another.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

dont bunch them YET. they grow slower that way.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

ooooooooh. so i should let them grow and then i when i have propogated them all i will bunch them together. i am thinking of just letting them grow to the top then cutting them into 4 then i will have sooo many stems i can bunch them together.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

And i forgot to say, I GOT A JOB    . i will be working saturdays from 12:00pm - 5:30pm. and at 10.00 an hour so i'll be getting about 220$ a month. i won't be spending all of it on fish though. maybe once i get a weekday job i can spend more on fish.


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## rountreesj (Jun 12, 2007)

For co2 milwaulkee is good, jbj is good, or just contact orlando...he can fill you in. a 10 lb tank will last you about 6 months once filled. you will want to eventually upgrade the lights...but a constant co2 source will help eliminate algae outbreaks, even if you keep levels really low, constant co2 is important. you don't really have to get it BEFORE you get the light upgrade, but it will help stabilize your tank, and after you upgrade lights, you MUST get co2. then spend on the canister(s), then a plant specific substrate, etc. etc. either way you do the plants will be fine...you can bunch them or not bunsh them, either way...you just need them to grow right now and get plant masssss. you can make it look pretty once you have enough plants...let me know if you ever want any rotala sp. green, rotundifolia, indica, colorata, or magenta. I trim about every 2-3 weeks.

yeah, don't spend all of your money on fish tanks...save some for video games...


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Thanks for the offer on plants but i can't cause i live in canada. I will have to spend some money on clothes because i go to thrift stores right now for clothes. but otherwise i will get these things in order:
co2
filter
fish/plants
lights

Sorry to say but i'd rather have fish before plants but i usually buy a plant whenever i buy fish.


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## Kayen (Oct 14, 2007)

Sounds good, lookin good when i ran into you today haha.
Anyways, nice with the job, if only i could get one, parents won't let me till exams are over. Oh well only a month to go till i can afford ot redo my 33 : ).
Anyways for plants try AA members there usually have something.
Oh yeah great chance is at the Edmonton Aquaria Show - whcih is this weekend on sat, sun and monday, but monday is the auction so be sure to check it out, i haven't been to any ACE auctions yet but i hear great chance to get some cheap plants.
More details at fish-club.org
I'll be going with a friend on sunday, see whats up, and i'm not going to the auction unfortunately : P.
Anyways just thought it would be a good chance to shop on equipment and livestock there as well.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Ya i would go to the show but i can't b/c i am working i think but if i can get a ride i'd be going on monday.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Congrats on the job! :thumbsup:


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

thanks, i'm looking forward to the first day this weekend.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Don't know whether to say _oops_ or *YAY*. Look what i just got (i know what it is but i want you to guess:

























You guys probably thought this is impulse but i had my eye on this one for a while.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Have you done any research on this fish?

http://greenspottedpuffer.net/basiccare.htm

I'm saying "Oops!"...


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Yes i have done some research and am hoping to set up a small snail farm in a jar.


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## lescarpentier (Feb 2, 2008)

SeaSerpant said:


> Yes i have done some research and am hoping to set up a small snail farm in a jar.


What about the water parameter issues?


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

i don't have any.


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## lescarpentier (Feb 2, 2008)

SeaSerpant said:


> i don't have any.


Oh really?

That Puffer is going to need brackish water soon,and eventually it will need marine conditions.

In case you didn't read roybot's post,here is the link that he sent.
http://greenspottedpuffer.net/basiccare.htm


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

yes i read it. i will see what i can do with it. if i have to i will set up a 30g reef with him, clownfish, goby, wrasse, jawfish.


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## stargate_geek (Mar 31, 2008)

Hopefully that puffer has a good personality, otherwise you will have some chunks of fins missing soon!


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

I hope. so far he hasn't showed any aggressiveness in any way.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Wait till he gets hungry...

Missing: 
Harlequin Rasbora 
Last seen in general vicinity of green spotted puffer...:icon_roll


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## lescarpentier (Feb 2, 2008)

roybot73 said:


> Wait till he gets hungry...
> 
> Missing:
> Harlequin Rasbora
> Last seen in general vicinity of green spotted puffer...:icon_roll


ROFL:hihi:


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## AlGee (Sep 7, 2006)

hey I have a GSP in a freshwater tank. I figured freshwater is better than Walmart water from where I rescued it. had it for over a year now and it is so docile. so their temperament can vary.


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## fishsandwitch (Apr 20, 2008)

and I have a goldfish in a 1 gallon tank!


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Lol. i already lost a harlequin somewhere bout 2 days ago it dissapeared.


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## monkeyruler90 (Apr 13, 2008)

you definetily need to do more research before you buy fish. its just the responsible thing to do, otherwise, its just messed up for you to be experimenting with live animals. its not right.


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## CincyReefer (May 14, 2008)

Very cool tank you have there sea! Love the angels and swords you have. The puffer probably wasnt the best choice you could have made, but HECK I think we've all made those silly mistakes that either turn out working for us or not! I hope luck is with you with that puffer! Oh and is the frog an ADF? those guys are so cool
Cheers!
JB


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

couldnt you at least have gotten a freshwater-brakish puffer instead of brakish-marine?

i dont know, but i dont think they go in reefs, they go in marine (one is big open water, the other is pretty SPS/LPS/soft corals and colorful fish). and he may eat you marine fish too, and shrimp, and astrea snails, and so forth.

jars work great for small snails. for a farm of the larger snails, you will need a small tank. or a big jug of about 2 gallons.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

AlGee
What do you feed your GSP?

Cincyreefer
Thanks. that makes me feel alot better. (not sarcastic)

@[email protected]
I plan to feed him snails (should i go to the lfs and ask for some of their pesky snails?) and i will start feeding him scallops and clams and various other things.


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## CincyReefer (May 14, 2008)

Hey, no problem. 
And @[email protected] is right, if you plan on putting the GSP in your marine tank you are gunna have get a whole new tank completely. He will most likely go after your coral, inverts, and maybe even your fish. But hey, look on the bright side, that just means you may have to get another tank  . But I think ull probably have to take him back to your LFS if he becomes a problem.
Good Luck! Keep us posted,
JB


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## AlGee (Sep 7, 2006)

I feed it:

snails (ran out of pond so now ramshorn)
flakes, granules, pellets, algae tabs (yes it eats all this stuff)
shrimp (live and newly-dead)
raw shrimp
occasionally my dinner scraps (shrimp, crab, scallops, chicken, beef)

It can't seem to catch ghost shrimp too well. I'm trying to breed cherry shrimp in another tank for it to snack on.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

I will post when it becomes troublesome otherwise it will be in the 120 it's whole life. Today was my first work day and we get paid every saturday, which, fortunately, is the day i work so today i maid a woping 56.21 and then i sold my 60g aquarium for 80$ i will be able to get that filter probably next week .


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

cant be there its whole life, as it grows it will need water with a slowly increasing salinity until it is in marine water. so unless you plan on killing everything else in this tank you need another large tank that you will make brakish and slowly over time into marine. its best to have live rocks curing in a container while you are adjusting the salt so when the tank is marine you can just put them in there.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

We shall see. i will sell it if i have to.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

K i just went to petsmart and bought some food and... er.... fish.
For food i bought some sinking shrimp pellets and some snails for my puffer.
And fish i bought 
5 kuhli loaches
2 green cories 
1 Peacock eel

I will probably end up having my 120 as a predator tank and end up buying a 30g or something, i will see.


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## CincyReefer (May 14, 2008)

Why the eel!!?? you'll have to end up doing an predator tank with that eel and puffer and even then, you'll have to get rid of the puffer due to the water it needs....the eel gunna go after the cories and loaches and anything else it can fit in its mouth! 
good luck
JB


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Yes i am thinking of just setting up a 30g with the fluval i'm running now and put the community fish in there and the puffer will go to a better home. it already has eaten half the snails. my parents shouldn't notice the difference in anything b/c i'm going to put up a proposal of paying 1/2 the electricity bill.


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## rountreesj (Jun 12, 2007)

Please listen to me!

Don't start buying more and more...!

Just get the tank you already have where you want it!

You don't want just 2, then 3, then 4, then 5, etc. normal tanks...right? Work on the ONE you have...

if you try to get a bunch and all these random fish, you will work just to pay for them...not something you want!

Please concentrate on the one tank you have and don't get fish that will need another tank soon. that $200 you will sink in another, you could plop into this one.

Once you have that 120 going, you should consider others, but not before. Otherwise, you will never reach this one's potential!!!!!

I know I sound very mean right now, but PLEASE listen to me and the other members here!

Puffer-not a good idea!
Eel-not a good idea either!
Focus! Focus! Focus!


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Ok i am going to save money, but this wasn't my pay check either . since i know that plants suck up some nutrients that can kill fish i bought some bacopa monnieri and cryptocoryne wendtii. can someone give my the common names? I swear by oath that the next thing i buy for this aquarium is the filter, then lights, then co2, then plants and fish. Sound good?


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

ok dude seriously fish like that are trouble. next youll get an alligator snaping turtle (or just and alligator period).


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

I know but we will have to see. they hopefully wont become trouble before i get this aquarium set up and the smaller one set up.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

SeaSerpant said:


> I know but we will have to see. they hopefully wont become trouble before i get this aquarium set up and the smaller one set up.


They're already trouble...

Use your head!!! These things aren't toys, they're living creatures that have specific needs.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Lets skip with the fish part, none of the troublesome fish i have are big enough to eat the other fish. my peacock eel sleeps with my loaches and frogs already. now back to the paragraph in post #167. I know you guys are trying to help me but i do take things you have said into consideration. (it just doesn't show much).


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## rountreesj (Jun 12, 2007)

i'm more worried about you going and buying all sorts of random fish than anything else...I know how it is, I went through this stage too...you have to get past the temptations to buy cool fish cause they just make the tank look scatterbrained...

but you know how we feel...just try to Not buy any more fish for now...you can solve any problems they cause if/when they present themselves...

it is your tank...but most of us know from experience(i.e. exactly what you are doing) to choose better...

keep the plant mass growing and keep them healthy if possible. do frequent water changes as low plant mass will lead to algae problems...

I would suggest getting some ferns instead of stems, but anything will work for now...you just want nutrient sponges...also I have found that if you have algae problems, add duckweed and it will use up any and all excess nutrients.

keep the filter,lights, and co2 a priority for now. followed closely by ferts and substrate next...fish CAN be fixed/sorted out if not done right...hardware and equipment are more expensive to fix later...

hope I helped--Stephen


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## rountreesj (Jun 12, 2007)

oh...as for #176, I think those are pretty much the common names...


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

*sigh*

What happened to those stocking plans we worked so hard on?


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## rountreesj (Jun 12, 2007)

> *sigh*
> 
> What happened to those stocking plans we worked so hard on?


I agree...but what can we do...? Let's at least try to keep him algae free for the time being.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

I promise no more fish and those plans will stay the same asides from that i will deduct some fish count but now i will focus on the plants. tomorrow i will aquascape and propogate. I got some duckweed from veittxboi and it seems to do well but the algae already there and is still growing.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

You'd better stick to that buster, else we'll drive up there and smack ya upside the head some!


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

lauraleellbp said:


> You'd better stick to that buster, else we'll drive up there and smack ya upside the head some!


couldnt 'a' said it better muh-self:eek5:


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## CincyReefer (May 14, 2008)

any picture updates sea?


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Oh yes i did a aquascape and am in the process of a water change. i cleaned the glass of algae and i tried to get the green slime algae off the bottom that came off of the wall but it won't come out without sand so i gave up on it. Bad pics coming up in a bit. (are being uploaded)


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Pictures didn't come out very well because the water is cloudy but otherwise you will see some kind of crypt that is new and some other kind of plant. I have propogated everything and this is the final product of the aquascape. (i left 2 spots for other plants) Comments are very appreciated:

Full tank pictures:

















Plants side:

















Crypt and other plant:









Thats it. Enjoy.


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## CincyReefer (May 14, 2008)

Haha, you can see the eel hiding in the last pic. But they are cool! what are your plant plans?
JB


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

A Hill said:


> Sounds like one heck of a tank
> 
> Take your time. I know its tempting to rush but don't it causes more problems down the road. Research what you're going to do, save money and get the best stuff for the job etc.
> 
> ...


Yeah what happened to your initial stocking plans?

Please sit down, handcuff your hands and think for a while. Don't make any impulse buys ever.

After that return the puffer, and the eel (it is neat but won't do well) and get back on track.

Then PM me:thumbsup: 

-Andrew


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

i will put up a for sale sign for the puffer and the peacock once they become a problem. Maybe they can stay for a while. for sure the puffer will go once it gets to big for fw and i will keep the peacock till it starts making trouble for itself but if the peacock stays non aggressive it will be fine. I have heard that if you keep an aggressive fish with peaceful fish when it is still young it doesn't start eating the smaller one. But now i definitly will try and KISS up to you guys.


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## CincyReefer (May 14, 2008)

I accept cash  .


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

SeaSerpant said:


> I have heard that if you keep an aggressive fish with peaceful fish when it is still young it doesn't start eating the smaller one. But now i definitly will try and KISS up to you guys.


i have only ever heard otherwise. and my b. splendens (common betta) spawn was raised all together in the same tank for 3 monthes since they hatched in october. im pretty sure if i put the brothers together there would be a dead fish pretty soon. now you may be saying thats different, its their nature to fight; but its the same with your fish, its its nature to eat smaller fish. just like female guppies dont eat other guppies when they are just born, but thats only since they cant fit them in their mouth.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

YA i guess but lets get off this topic and back on my plants. 
Cincy Reefer
What do you mean by plant plans? do you mean placement or what kind? I know i want the placement of groups of plants like this on the left and right side with space in the middle. I don't know what kind of plants i want because i don't know if 2wpg would be good enough for some plants or 1.5wpg.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I'd move your Bacopa into the back, maybe in that empty spot just to the right of your pot? (The bacopa is the bright green plant behind the crypt). Bacopa gets pretty tall.

All the plants you have so far should be OK in your lighting, though some of them might get leggy over time b/c the tank is so deep. You'll just have to keep trimming and replanting tops. It's shaping up though! :thumbsup:


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

So put the bacopa beside the ambulia?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Yep, that's the spot I was thinking.

Pretty sure that's Bacopa caroliniana, BTW, same as what I have in my tank. Great fast grower. :thumbsup: 

What are you going to put in the other corner? Vals, hygro, or water sprite might look really nice...


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## rountreesj (Jun 12, 2007)

by plant plans, they mean stocking list...although right now...you just nead a ton of plants...stems grow the fastest...you just need plants..cheap fast growers...


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## CincyReefer (May 14, 2008)

^ Yep, sorry sea, thats what I meant


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Lauraleellbp
I will take any suggestions for the other corner but i will focus on this corner b/c i put both lights over it while i'm at school.

Rountreesj
I will buy the filter then a wack load of fast growing lowlight plants. 

Any suggestions of fast growing low light plants that will do well with the set up? (bunch in both corners and none in middle to sides.)


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

moneywort, anacharis, hornwort, any floating plant (because at the surface they get the full intesity of your light, actually you could keep any stem plant as long as it was tall enough upon introduction and you never cut it too low).


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

I'll keep my eyes open for suggestions.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

water sprite would work, oh, and it looks like you need to add more sand to the middle, but be sure to thoroughly wash it, no matter how long it takes, i washed my sand for 2 hours, and it was only enough for a 29 gallon tank


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

clwatkins10
I made it slope into the middle and won't have any plants there unless i make a ground cover. I washed the sand A LOT and it still ended up cloudy so i filtered the rest out.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

K well quick update. i bought some slate and set it up on the right side. (can't write much right now cause i gtg). So i made a cave and will put some anubas, moss and ferns and various other plants around it to "cover" it up.

Full shots:

Flash








Without










Right side:

Flash

















Without


















Left side:

Flash

















Without



















Middle:

Flash

















Without


















Suggestions? Comments?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I think that cave has alot of potential! :thumbsup: 

I think it would make a better focal point, though, if you moved it about 1/3 of the way over to the right of the tank. Where it is right now, it draws the eye to all your equipment, and leaves the middle of the tank looking too bare.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

that cave looks very natural, you did a good job building it


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Lauraleellbp
I will do that. but the filter won't be there soon enough.

ClwatKins10
Thanks comments are always welcome!


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

So any comments or suggestions on my scape on the bottom of pg 10?


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Update. 
There has been some growth but mostly on the green slime algae. I can't vacum it up without taking the sand with it. is there an effective quick way to get rid of it?


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

green slime? cyanobacteria most likely. and if it is all slippery and slimy in your hands and dark green and kinda translucent then yep, its cyano. with all algae you need to find the underlying cause or no matter what you do it will come back. once you have found it and fixed it you can then start to reduce the current algae. normally this is done by, manual removal and herbavorous fish and shrimp. however no animal eats the BGA (aka cyanobacteria) that is in your tank, except for spirulina, but i doubt you have that. in extreme situations you can use antibiotics for gram negative bacteria, like maracyn (i forget the spelling of the active ingrediant, is something like ethyromecin). you can also use blackouts. however without fixing the problem, it will rebound FAST.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

what are possible things that cause it?


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## monkeyruler90 (Apr 13, 2008)

have you ever looked into turning this tank into an african cichlid tank? im sure you'd really like the species and they're pretty hardy too.


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## deleted_user_16 (Jan 20, 2008)

i wish he had done that, but he seys he cant return fish to lfs.


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## innerchi89 (Mar 30, 2008)

The peacock eel, puffer shouldnt have left the store in the first place haha. I just read 14 pages, and went through the good times, and the bad times.


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## monkeyruler90 (Apr 13, 2008)

fishman9809 said:


> i wish he had done that, but he seys he cant return fish to lfs.


pshh, this hobby isn't about how much a fish is worth and if it has a return policy. its about the beauty of the fish and its potential in the tank.


well, after keeping up with the thread i really think he needs something thats low maintenance, HARDY and something fun that will keep him interested and not be neglected.
being a teenager boy he'll probably love to watch those african cichlids go after those feeder goldfish


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## deleted_user_16 (Jan 20, 2008)

not me, another teenage boy, I'd like sumthin calming and very soothing after a hard day


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

^same here, i went through my aggressive fish stage (catfish) and now i prefer to sit and watch plants fish and shrimp doin their jobs, i can sit there for hours doing that


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## monkeyruler90 (Apr 13, 2008)

yeah, theres nothing like watching my little neons swim against the current. its amazing
hopefully everything goes well with sea serpents tanks


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

SeaSerpant said:


> what are possible things that cause it?


low nitrates, and low flow contribute to it; but there is no 1 cause, as with all other algae. if your nitrates are good and so is your flow, add more plants, that may help (but only if the plants take well to the tank).

hey, im a teenager, and i need something moderate-high maintenance, or i get bored.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

monkeyruler90 said:


> pshh, this hobby isn't about how much a fish is worth and if it has a return policy. its about the beauty of the fish and its potential in the tank.
> 
> 
> well, after keeping up with the thread i really think he needs something thats low maintenance, HARDY and something fun that will keep him interested and not be neglected.
> being a teenager boy he'll probably love to watch those african cichlids go after those feeder goldfish


Gah. i am very "sensitive" i don't like anything that has to die on purpose unless their pesky. So seeing the goldfish get eaten wouldn't make me feel any better. That is why i don't like returning fish unless i have to. I will can buy many plants now so what kinds should i get? i know about anubias, different crypts but what else would be good by the cave? I'm very happy so many people have started viewing my thread. THANKS!!!roud:


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

types of stem plants like hornwart or rotalas or floating plants like water sprite (which can also be planted in the substrate) or duckweed or float some riccia


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

hornwort is a floating plant. 
what you can get depends on your lighting, CO2, and substrate. i dont remember your lighting or if you have CO2 so could you tell me again (i dont want to look through 15 pages). and your substrate is sand which is probably inert, so no crypts or plants that need good substrate.


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## nvr (Nov 4, 2006)

a really very nice tank.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Thanks all guys. 
@[email protected]
Right now i have very low lighting (18wx4) but amazingly all my plants are thriving. I have no co2 and bad filtration. Hopefully soon i will get a better filter (i know which one i want but i don't remember it's name.) I will also boost my lighting to 40wx4. I bought a fert thing called floreal by a german company. I will do a bit of research on that particular fert. 

I went to my lfs (i do it often cause' i bike there) and bought 4 plants. I have scaped the tank and will post pics in a bit. Just a heads up to get your attention.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

they most likely are not thriving. it may be what i call the death-growth. plants store glocuse (food), for periods of time when they cant photosynthesize enough. during that time they go dormant, then when they realize its not a cloudy day, but a new location. they spend what is left of their food reserves to grow, and get more light in a desperate attempt to survive. they are ok for now, but when they stop growing you have about a week to increase the lighting until they die.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Um i have had them all for at least 2 weeks and they haven't started dieing off or anything. I don't think it's the wattage that matters with lights now a days I think it's intensity because you can have 10 led lights that are 2w together and a 20w light with the same intensity. But i may be totally wrong but i don't know for sure. But i don't want to start up an arguement so just tell me about it in a pm. 

Well now for the pictures. I picked up some Ludwigia arcuata, Anubais, Hygrophila corymbosa and some UPO (unidentified planted object). I had asked for some of their pesky snails but they gave me 3 snails, i think their apple snails but i don't know for sure. Here is how it is scaped:

Full Tank:









Right Side:

















Middle:

















Left Side:

















Hygrophila Corymbosa:









Anubais:









Ludwigia Arculata:









UPO:









Snails?:

























Hope you enjoy it because i do.:icon_wink


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## monkeyruler90 (Apr 13, 2008)

i believe the UPO is green mondo grass
its not a true aquatic plant but it'll survive for a few months and in the meanwhile it might grow, depending on the available resources

i bought some from a lfs and it grewe for a few months but then it started melting. its a really nice looking plant though, too bad its not aquatic

check out the link
http://aquarium-journal.com/2007/05/green-mondo-grass-ophiopogon-japonicus.html


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

well, if you have high intesity lights then yeah, wattage means less. anyway, well see what happens. i like the cave, but you need to just jam some moss in the cracks and on the rocks to cover them and really make them look connected (it will also hold them together so you dont have them collapse ontop of a pair of fish going in to spawn).


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Guess i'm off to by some moss.  Any more suggestions? Comments?


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

to get a foreground. dwarf hairgrass would work well in your tank as it doesnt need high light, likes fine substrates (such as sand) and does ok in lower light. it also wont get to tall for your tank. the only thing then is to wait for your nano-sized stems to grow into a 120gal tank.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Would i be able to get it online? would it be a ground cover? because thats kinda what i want now. How long does it usually take to ship anywhere.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

you can get anything online. some sites that probably have both are:
azgardens.com aquariumplants.com aquabid.com

aquariumplants.com is good, but their moss sometimes isnt too good, aquabid is an auction site, so it all depends on who you get it from, azgardens has a bad rep but a big selection.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Do these places ship to canada?


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Okay update. Everything has grown but not significantly. i tested my param:
Ammonia-0.1
Nitrate-5
Nitrite-0

I had seemed to have a problem only with my gouramis, they have been heavy breathing for a while now and one just died today. No other fish have had the same problems. What could have caused this?


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## rountreesj (Jun 12, 2007)

aquariumplants.com ships to canada I think...DWARF harigrass is what you want and they ship it in pots for about $3 each...get like 10 of them and break the potted grass up into 4 parts and plant them... great low-light foreground plant


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## rountreesj (Jun 12, 2007)

for dieing fish...any number of problems, but probably lack of oxygen run an aerator for a while...


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

no, the dead fish is a gourami. they have labarynth organs right? they get most of their O2 demand from air. 

is there anything chasing them? heavy "breathing" is a sign of stress. but it doesnt point to much more then that, could be from what they think is a predator, from heat, from a chemical, etc. i dont know how sensitive gouramis are to ammonia, could that be the cause?


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## lescarpentier (Feb 2, 2008)

SeaSerpent,
What filters are you using now..


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Same two as always. Now i'm looking at my other gourami. It's breathing normal and has it's fins up. Is it possible that they had a fight to the death during the night? And for lights i can get the filter soon so i'm looking into lights, (maybe lights first cause the plants aren't doing as good as they could) would 4 coral life 36w hype up the algae problem or would it stay the same?


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

what kind of gouramis were they? most gouramis arent that aggressive. oh, sure they will bicker, but not constantly seek dominance like betta splendens. also, is any part of the surviving gourami bruised? any swollen areas? if they fought to the death (which would take days, and would be very noticable), even the victor wouldnt be completely unscathed. 

are you planning on doing a low-light tank (like REALLY low light). with those lights you will only have a little over a watt per gallon. i know its a big tank, so 1wpg on it is better then on a nano, but its still low light. also, im guessing its deep, like deeper then a foot, maybe deeper the 2 feet? 

more light = more growth of all photosynthetic creatures. algae will grow faster, and your plants not much better, since they take longer then algae to adapt to new conditions (even if they are for the better). but, then they will grow better then before. and once your plants are healthy (assuming your nutrients are balanced), then the algae will begin to recede. there are multiple opinions on why this happens (you will get a different reason from a bio-chemist who would explain reason A on a molecular basis, a biologist who would explain reason B talking about the organisms as a whole probably mentioning evolution, and an ecologist would tell you about reason C and how it all fits into the "big picture" in the environment").


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## fshfanatic (Apr 20, 2006)

SeaSerpant said:


> The size goes down when your age goes up


My first tank at 14 was a 10 on my dresser. At 16 I bought a Plexi 100 gallon. Got it at cost as I got a job at the LFS. Was even able to make weekly payments out of my check and run a tab!

Then at 22 I bought a 150 and made it a reef.

Now at 43 I am running a 29 shrimp tank, a 20L Marine tank, 125 Tanganyikan tank and a 180 Jardini tank.. 

Size does matter!


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## fshfanatic (Apr 20, 2006)

SeaSerpant said:


> Don't know whether to say _oops_ or *YAY*. Look what i just got (i know what it is but i want you to guess:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


To live more than a couple yrs GSP's need to be transitioned from fresh to brackish to full marine when adults.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

I know... lol. I think the one gourami died of natural causes. maybe old age because i don't know how old he is.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

@[email protected] said:


> no, the dead fish is a gourami. they have labarynth organs right? they get most of their O2 demand from air.


Not quite accurate. They can breathe air through their labrynth organ if needed, but still take in most of their O2 dissolved in the water through gills like most fish.

Sea- how long has it been since you tested your nitrAtes, how long since the last PWC, and large was that PWC?

What are you feeding that puffer, and is any food going uneaten? 

My guess is going to be nitrAtes are high- same as last time.

I thought you already added the new filter to this tank? What happened?


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Oh i haven't gotten the money for the filter, yet. I think in 2 weeks i will definetly get it. I tested my water 2 days ago. My puffer eats bloodworms and amazingly the flake food. I make sure none goes uneaten. About the water change, i am trying to keep it major lowtech, thats why i have added so many plants. Is there an easier way to do waterchanges than with 5g buckets.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

What were your water parameters when you tested?

Yes there's an easier way to do water changes- a Python will make your life 100x easier with tank this size. There's instructions for DIY pythons in the DIY forum, too. A Python or similar helps both drain and refill a tank using a very long hose to your sink and using your house's water pressure.

I'd at least use a long hose to run the water outside during water changes- I personally just send my wastewater out the window next to my tank into my front lawn.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

but a thing about pythons, my python's vaccum isnt half as strong as that of my ordinary gravel vac, so it doesnt pull up most of the detritus. the big peices go up to halfway, then fall back down. so i change as much water as fits in 1 bucket with a normal gravel vac, then the rest with the python.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Can you give me a diagram or how to make a python (maybe a link)?


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

try the search function. i didnt make mine, i just bought it at the LFS.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

@[email protected] said:


> but a thing about pythons, my python's vaccum isnt half as strong as that of my ordinary gravel vac, so it doesnt pull up most of the detritus. the big peices go up to halfway, then fall back down. so i change as much water as fits in 1 bucket with a normal gravel vac, then the rest with the python.


Leave the sink running if you have to, or maybe try and hook it up outside for more water pressure.

Here's 2 options:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/54822-diy-python.html

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/55708-diy-faucet-pump-python.html


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Thanks lauraleellbp. I will look at those. Now that you mention the filter i have went onto ebay and will probably have one after a half hour. (i bid on it in the last minute so no one ever beats me.)


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Got a fluval fx5 or something it's rated for 400g aquariums, sound good? i got it for 240$ instead of 300$


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I think that should be enough filtration for your tank.

I hope it has lots of ability to control the flow! :icon_eek:


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Well i think people say it's good to have overfiltration so now i think i won't have a problem! unless i can't control the flow!


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## MikeS (Apr 27, 2008)

lauraleellbp said:


> Leave the sink running if you have to, or maybe try and hook it up outside for more water pressure.http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/55708-diy-faucet-pump-python.html


I use the garage sink, and keep the water running. Works so much better, and quicker for just water changes.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

maybe, but its fine because i am able to get all the gunk out with the regular one, and only costs me maybe 5 minutes of time more. 

dont worry, fish can handle flow. at first they will probably struggle, but then their muscle will build up and they will be fine. flow also well help keep algae at bay (increasing flow rarely does anything to an outbreak, but every little thing adds up, so it will decrease your chances of a bloom).


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## Adhlc (May 4, 2008)

@[email protected] said:


> but a thing about pythons, my python's vaccum isnt half as strong as that of my ordinary gravel vac, so it doesnt pull up most of the detritus. the big peices go up to halfway, then fall back down. so i change as much water as fits in 1 bucket with a normal gravel vac, then the rest with the python.


 
Try hooking it up to a hose outlet outside. Great Success! :thumbsup:


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Ok so now that i'm getting that filter i have to do some stocking plans: 

Plants:
Random low light plants

Fish:
Pending

Equipment:
Filter _/
Lights
Ferts
(no co2 want really low tech and want it to be a wee bit less expensive)


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## Kayen (Oct 14, 2007)

want more plants?


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

I'd love some viettxboii. I think i need to do a major waterchange or something because one of my albino corie just died. I'll be off to home hardware after school to make a python.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

wow, thats a lot of dead fish in such a short time. you definately have something wrong. check your ammonia and nitrites.


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## Kayen (Oct 14, 2007)

Also at this point plant biomass is not enough to suck up all of ammonia nitrites, nitrates, etc.
By the way if you haven't realized i have no school anymore, so delivering to you might be a prob. since i'm kinda lazy to go there as well...


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

lol. I'm doing a wc right now. (First since i set up) And it's about 40%. I couldn't make a python so i'm just using a hose and it works great. I will post up some pics in a sec.


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

Well SeaSurpent it seems like your tank is starting to go in a great direction!

I personally think you should have waited until you had all the equiptment to set up the tank, but I know its not easy.

And size matters a little... @5 I had a 10g, at 14 I've got a 55g... at this rate if my parents let me get another larger tank I'll be at 500g or so soon:icon_roll 

Yeah, Right.

-Andrew


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Thanks a hill. I just got a job so now i can financially afford the aquarium. I just propogated a bunch of plants so i will take pictures of that but otherwise the new picks i just took are a coming.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

My new Drain System

























Right of Aquarium









Middle









Left









Full View










I just propogated the plants on the left (ambulia) so now they extend farther and are closer together. i got a fert called Floreal and is made by a german company. Should i dose it?


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

hehe, nice old comic books, is that archie? and nice plaid pants too, lol, I wouldnt dose any ferts just yet, you might get an algae outbreak, let your plants grow out some, the longer they get, the closer to the light they are and the faster they will grow (which is what you want) and will give you more to propagate, startin to look a lot better, good luck


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Well i just propogated them again so i will let them grow for the time being.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

your cutting the stems too soon. you should let them grow up to an inch below the surface and then cut the top 1/3 off; but thats for using them as a background.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Well i guess i don't know everything  Thanks i'll remember that. Does that apply for all backround plants or just certain types?


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Okay, there is something obviously wrong with my aquarium. After school i will test my parameters. So far now i have had 1 albino cory, 1 oto, and 2 gouramis that have died in the past 2 week. The gouramis had something obviously wrong with them, their sides were bulging out and this morning (about 5 min ago) i found the last gourami on it's side, still breathing, i went to take it out and it tried to swim but all it did was go around in circles on it's side. Any diagnosis so far? any idea if it was a parasite or bacteria? Now i want to say is, fish... RIP.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Start with testing your water parameters. That's my first guess with such a wide variety of species going down all at the same time. Most parasites tend to move most quickly between members of the same species before they'll start taking out others.

How stable has the temp on your tank been? Been getting lots of fluctuation in the weather here... and that can take out fish fairly quickly.

Any changes in what you've been feeding them?

When is the last time you added any new fish?


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## ColeMan (Mar 9, 2008)

clwatkins10 said:


> I wouldnt dose any ferts just yet, you might get an algae outbreak


sorry to hear about your fish, but I wanted to respond to this comment simply by saying the following (i'm not trying to be hyper-critical clwatkins, because your advice in this instance is spot on). This sort of applies to you and sort of doesn't. Since you're still gathering equipment (most importantly here CO2), you can disregard this information, but I think it's important for the many people that read through your journal and don't know any better to understand this point: it's okay to dose! I started dosing my tank the _day_ I added plants - I dosed everything but KNO3 (I used aquasoil so I figured it was unnecessary), but I was conservative in my dosing. Funny thing is - I got GSA. To get rid of it, I _upped_ my dosing of phosphates, and it didn't come back. It sounds cliche, but finding a proper balance is critical for not only tank health, but ease of maintenance also. What's that saying about an ounce of prevention? Regardless, preventative tank maintenance is many, many times easier than responding to major tank disasters and outbreaks. My point is this: when you get your CO2 up and running, do not be afraid to dose!


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## frogmanjared (Feb 21, 2008)

Make sure you're gently stirring the sand up every once in a while to prevent compaction... which results in toxins that will kill fish.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

oh wow, yeah i completely forgot about that. frogmanjared is right, you could have some anaerobic bacteria, and those can release some nasty toxins. fortunately, O2 is lethal to most of them.


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## NstyN8 (May 9, 2008)

@[email protected] said:


> your cutting the stems too soon. you should let them grow up to an inch below the surface and then cut the top 1/3 off; but thats for using them as a background.


Do you replant the top portion and discard the bottom? 
or
Do you keep the bottom section planted? Will this cause new shoots to be dwarfed?

Thanks in advanced


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

not if you are trying to propogate (get more). you keep it all. if you dont want more, you usually take out the tops and keep the bottoms to get the stems to grow branches, but this doesnt really work on asian ambulia (limnophila sessiliflora) which is the plant i was reffering to, but it does on rotalas and others.

no. the growth starts in a bud which is always small. but assuming you have proper lighting (its not being shaded), it will grow to be normal size. and it will branch. here is a diagram of how i cut my rotala:








it doesnt always branch like that though. sometimes it only grows 1 branch just to replace the cut one. then i just cut it at the same spot as last time.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

I'll test my param once my dad gets home (he know how to test the ammonia).


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Ok my parameters are as follows,

Ammonia-.1
Nitrate-0
Nitrite-0

Could both my gouramis died of the same problem and my cory just died from something else (maybe natural reasons)? i know that both the gouramis died from the same things but i can't tell what they died from. Their chest kind of blew up like a balloon. Can there be something in the water that causes this kind of thing? And i do stir up my substrate very frequently.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

You're having some water quality issues, shown by that ammonia reading. Sounds like your fish that died may have had dropsy- which is typically linked with water quality problems.

You've been adding lots of fish to this tank in a very short amount of time with inadequate filtration (I know you just bought the FX5, but even if you have it already, it's not cycled). In a properly cycled tank with an appropriate bioload, you should never read any ammonia or nitrItes.

What you need to do for now is just what you did when you were having nitrAte issues- keep up with the water changes. Make sure that you dechlorinate new water before it goes into the tank if at all possible, and double-check that the new water going into the tank is precisely at tank temperature.

Once you get the FX5 you need to keep one of your established filters going, and transfer as much media from the rest of the filters into the FX5 as possible. Then keep a close eye on your water parameters and be ready to do lots more PWC if you get yet another minicycle.

Last but not least DON"T GET ANY MORE FISH until your tank has had TIME to establish! (I KNOW how tempting they are when you go to the LFS- but you need to resist!!)


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

SeaSerpant said:


> Their chest kind of blew up like a balloon.


thats dropsy. its caused by bad water quality. its a bacterial infection and the same thing as popeye just in a different part of the body. medication can be given, but recovery depends mostly on improvement of water quality. many fish heal when placed in clean quarantine tanks, or the tank they are already in improves. no fish will heal with medication if the water is still bad.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

@[email protected] said:


> thats dropsy. its caused by bad water quality. its a bacterial infection and the same thing as popeye just in a different part of the body. medication can be given, but recovery depends mostly on improvement of water quality. many fish heal when placed in clean quarantine tanks, or the tank they are already in improves. no fish will heal with medication if the water is still bad.


Man, that sucks, I had a fish in my early days of fish keeping that got dropsy and it made me sick to see it like that:icon_conf :frown:


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

dropsy may look bad, but popeye looks a hundred times worse. i had a betta catch that. fortunately, it is one of the easiest things to treat: just fix the intial problem. meds make it go faster and heighten the success rate though.


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## monkeyruler90 (Apr 13, 2008)

and always remember to quarantine allllll your fish. just have a little 10 gallon under the 120 and you'll be set. it needs a simple light and a good filter and thats it.

its important that you always quarantine all your fish before you put them in the tank, that way they won't infest all your other fish..

and remember to keep up with the water changes. it helps the fish a lot. specially if one just died.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Ya my parents don't want me to buy another aquarium because they say it'll run up the bills. Or some other reason. I will just have to persuade them to let me get one. (and then i'll try and get a small SW Pico).


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

I just got the fluval fx5 and heat stroke. I set it up and seeded it with the other filters materials. I hope this does it good, and tommorow i will add more water to the tank (the filter took A LOT of water from the tank). so that will be like a small WC. I will be sure to keep my eye on the param for the next few weeks.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Heat stroke?  Take care of yourself! 

How do you like the FX5 so far?


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

The FX5 has uprooted some of my plants, (but i think that was me when i took the other filter out a piece fell). It took forever to set up and was really frustrating. But not about the fx5, my puffer ate the fins of one of my angelfish while i was away and had run out of food for him (bloodworms). Now that the bad is over and done with, now my tank is overfiltered understocked. My bosemani rainbow fish is showing it's true colours. The peacock eel finally buries itself in the sand. and the algae has went away quite abit when i put a bubbler in (the fish were panting), so i'm hoping this will get rid of it for good. And i finally got food for my puffer. 

I think thats it, any questions?


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

yeah, my only question is:
since when do beginners get 120g tanks; and then stock them with eels and angels and puffers? 
lol
what happened to bettas and neon tetras?


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

since kids began to like fish. Well if you think about it these fish will make the tank a bit more interesting and at first it was research and then an opening (the puffer was totally impulse and will end up selling him.)


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

heh, i got my first fish at 8. it was a feeder gold fish (well 3). they were from a tank heavily infested with ich and neither me nor my parents had a first clue what acclamitization is so they, of course, were dead by morning. then after some research i slowly worked up.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Lol. I had a goldfish at 8 but luckly my dad had fish when he was young (way back in the 70's)


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Okay i needed to look at my list of what i'm going to get and everything, and i can't find it! can anyone find it, it should be in this thread somewhere.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

NVm i found it:

Plants:
Random low light plants

Fish:
Pending

Equipment:
Lights
Ferts
(no co2 want really low tech and want it to be a wee bit less expensive)

I think now that i have the filter i can wait for the lights and ferts because i don't really need them. I will buy them buy the end of the summer. Hopefully by the end of the summer i will have it at it's "Full glory". With all the fish plants and equipment in the tank. So that will mean i better start on my plans for fish... again. I will start up yet another thread for that. so please help me out, because i'm going to the fish store tommorow for plants and some fish.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

i reccomend a bunch of schooling fish. and maybe a few show fish.

any kind of danios are active, hardy, not picky eaters, and colorful.
tetras are also very popular for the same reasons.
ditto for the barbs.

for show fish i would reccomend a few of the slightly bigger gouramis (2-3 of one or 2 different species) such as Trichogaster leerii the pearl gourami.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

I think i may have lost a frog. i found a bone in my sand. Would it leave a bone? I am testing my parameters right now.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

My parameters are PERFECT 
Nitrite-0
Nitrate-5
Ammonia-0


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

wth? how long has it been missing? a bone!? even in a tropic aquarium it does take a while for it to be completely decomposed.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

ya a bone. it was weird. i couldn't notice if a frog was missing because i'd only see 1 or 2 at a time. and then one of my frogs stirred up the sand and there it was. it must of died quite a while ago, or it's something else i can't know for sure. (if i see 3 frogs then i know that it isn't) it was quite weird but i could tell it was one of the back legs. 

Frog legs anyone?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

That would explain your ammonia spike a little bit ago, too.

Do you have snails in the tank?


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

I have 3 snails and i have something new to update. I bought fish. I know it was too many at a time so you don't have to give me grief on that. But here is the list of fish that i bought.

1 Bosemani Rainbow Fish
4 Pearl Danios
2 Blue Rams
2 Blue Viel Rams
2 Red Rams 
2 Bronze Cories
2 Albino Cories
3 Golden Algae Eaters
3 Algae Eaters
1 Sailfin Plecostamus

For the rams, one already died but i think it was because of, it was previously sick and the trip home was hard. All the other ones are perfectly fine. I guess this is why you quarantine them. So if you want pictures you can ask.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

LOL You need to rename your tank "Noah's Ark"!  

You'll need to keep a close eye on your water parameters for the next week or so... hasn't it only been a week at most you've had the new filter up and running?


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## Tex Gal (Mar 28, 2008)

Did you get more plants for your tank? I was reading your thread, saw your tank a few pages back, don't see where you added any more plants. You really need more plants. The plants will take up any ammonia in your tank added by all your new little friends. You can always start out with cheaper plants and then when you can afford it sell the cheap ones and get others. Look at the swap and shop. Get a package offered by someone so that your shipping will only be $5 or so. 

Sounds like you are learning fast!


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## lescarpentier (Feb 2, 2008)

SeaSerpant said:


> But here is the list of fish that i bought.
> 1 Bosemani Rainbow Fish
> 4 Pearl Danios
> 2 Blue Rams
> ...





> SAILFIN PLECOSTOMUS Size/Length: To 20" (50 cm)
> Suggested companions: South and Central American cichlids; large characins, Pimelodids, gouramis
> Hiding places of caves, rocks, and roots should be provided. Leave open swimming areas. The Sailfin Pleco may eat plants.
> Social behavior: A peaceful fish that can be kept in a community tank with medium to large fish, including cichlids. Do not combine with small fish as they may be eaten. The Sailfin Pleco is very aggressive towards its own and similar looking species.





> Gold Algae Eater *Family:* Gyrinocheilidae
> *Range:* Asia
> *Size:* Up to 12 inches
> *Diet:* Herbivore
> ...


UH OH!!,I think you made a couple of boo boos...:frown:


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

I have and will thanks for the reminder lauraleellbp. can you give me the site for the algae eaters i think they may be different kinds? Oh and i searched it up and multiple sites gave me different results for the length it would grow. They varies from 8-12" and they say they usually stay around 6". I think it will be fine. I knew from the start about the pleco i will keep an eye on him for the fish eating part asides from the point where he is only 3" right now. I will be returning the puffer fairly soon just to tell you guys. Can anyone advise me to any plant sites in canada or ship to canada?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

The "golden" algae eater is just a color morph; they still get big and aggressive.

I had a CAE kill everything in my tank except a RTS... before I finally flushed the nasty thing. Occasionally someone will have a well-behaved one, but personally I'll never own another.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

I'm One dumb idiot. I have made probably the stupidest choices in this whole forum. If my parents let me get a smaller aquarium maybe a really tall 40g for the community fish, this tank will be an aggressive chiclid tank. That is only a dream for now. For the CAE's i have read good and bad comments on them but i'm thinking their more bad than good right now. Hopefully i have enough room/algae, for their food/territories otherwise that dream will become reality. I think i will call this thread NOAH'S ARK because he kept both aggressive and non-aggressive animals together, (in cages but that doesn't matter). Wish me luck i'm going in under my head.


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## lescarpentier (Feb 2, 2008)

lauraleellbp said:


> I had a CAE kill everything in my tank except a RTS... before I finally flushed the nasty thing.


Flushed?:hihi:

I hope that a bird didn't pick it up and deposit it in another waterway.:icon_wink


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Nope, I was on a septic tank system- totally closed.

Glad for your concern, though. :flick: 

LOL


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Okay the name is changed and those other 2 rams died. i only have 2 left, which are the biggest and are red rams. I am thinking that all these factors are part of the deaths, to much flow for the little guys, to fast acclimation and no quarantine.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

LOL @ the name change  

Sorry about the Rams, though.

Sometimes we all have to learn through experience, Sea- you're definitely not a dumb idiot!


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

i never new flow could kill a fish. they just adapt (usually this just means growing larger muscles). i kept a betta in a 6 gallon with an ehiem ecco in addition to the original wet-dry filter. it did just fine.

oh and btw, dont sewers have open sections where you live, laura? i know they dont for blackwater in the US but naples is different, right? you just released an invasive species. 
LOL


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

[email protected] Marko. The fish went into a septic tank, no sewers involved, and I also was living in Texas at the time.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

I tested the water, (brought it into my lfs) and everything tested good asides from the nitrates were high because i added the floreal fert. I'm hoping my suckers can keep the algae at bay, and that the plants grow good. Would i be able to put some black fabric behind my aquarium for the black looking backround, or maybe garbage bags, with out it looking tacky or bad.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

With a tank your size I think black garbage bags would wrinkle too badly. What about black posterboard?


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

I think it would show the lines where they join. wouldn't they? maybe i should leave the backround the same, the wall coulor of light blue.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

What about one of those big trifold super posterboard things they sell for science projects and display boards? 

Your tank is 48"?


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

5' so 60" so i don't think it would work. i think the cloth is my best bet for now.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

hey sea, how bout some picture updates?


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Certainly, on sunday. I might be able to get some tommorow, but i'm leaving to drumheller for the weekend till sunday evening. I will be glad to post up some pics, considering i haven't posted any for a while. Oh and by the way, i brought back the puffer to the store.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

SeaSerpant said:


> i brought back the puffer to the store.


Congratulations, now you just need to do that with a few other of your fish :icon_roll


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

SeaSerpant said:


> Oh and by the way, i brought back the puffer to the store.


Good move. :thumbsup: 

Look forward to the new pics!  Have a fun weekend!


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

The Pictures are soon to come. I have a few things to say before. First, i put in the Fert thinking the algea eaters could keep the algae at bay, but was i wrong. I came back today and there is NO trace of algae anywhere. The plants are perfectly clean. HOORAY! As far as this, all the fish are fine and everything is being very coexisting together very well.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

SeaSerpant said:


> The Pictures are soon to come. I have a few things to say before. First, i put in the Fert thinking the algea eaters could keep the algae at bay, but was i wrong. I came back today and there is NO trace of algae anywhere. The plants are perfectly clean. HOORAY! As far as this, all the fish are fine and everything is being very coexisting together very well.


Thats great. You will get better at keeping the tank in balance better with time  I am looking forward to the pictures :thumbsup:


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

last time i checked photobucket wasn't this slow, GRRR. i'm on photo 15 of 20.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

*Yay Pics!*

FULL VIEW

















RIGHT SIDE

















LEFT SIDE

















MIDDLE INBETWEEN

















RANDOM PICTURES

EEL









NO ALGAE









PLANTS 









CAVE









EEL/SNAIL

















RAMS

























GOLDEN ALGAE EATER

























Ok, just a few questions. I need a good foreground plant (groundcover) and i want to know what YOU GUYS would do for it, give me the pictures and i'll see what i like. Oh and i'd like to know what YOU GUYS would choose for plants and where. Post pics of what you would do and tell me where. I'll make it like a contest, asides from the prize is seeing that plant in my aquarium! So go and post.


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## kittytango (May 7, 2008)

I like it, but it is a bit empty in the middle, I see you want foreground plants are you going to add back ground plants?


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

For the foreground, moss is a good choice. Christmas moss might look the best, but whatever king of moss you can get your hands on would work. You could tie it to large flat pieces of slate (you can find them at a garden center)
Let you hygro and cabomba grow almost to the top before trimming it, and it should look nice


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

As i think i said, i want YOUR suggestions on plants, ANYWHERE in the tank. Post a pic and where it should be. I'm sorry if i didn't make myself clear. 

Clwatkins10
I will make sure their at the top before trim them, thanks for the information. how does the moss make a foreground? is it foreground or groundcover? or both?


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

christmas moss sorta stays low to the ground, it creeps along it, when I update my rimless moss tank, I will take pictures of what the chrismass moss looks like in my tank . I guess you could call it groundcover, and use it to make a foreground .


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## kittytango (May 7, 2008)

What about a sword plant right in the middle? They grow big and fill out nicely to make a nice center piece. It also look very tall, so you could add some vals in the back and let them gow tall.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

kittytango said:


> What about a sword plant right in the middle? They grow big and fill out nicely to make a nice center piece. It also look very tall, so you could add some vals in the back and let them gow tall.


I think the sword placeing is good where it is, I wouldnt move it


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Looking better all the time, Sea! :thumbsup: The plants are looking really good

Have you upgraded your lighting yet? Until you do that, I doubt that anything besides moss will do much as a groundcover or foreground...

My fav foreground/groundcover is always E. tenellus 'narrow'. 

I'd put some Vals in the background and along the sides of your tank, and move your other current plants (including the rock cave) in towards the middle of the tank, using them as more of a midground.

EDIT... I'm thinking Jungle Vals in one back corner of the tank, Val nana along the middle, and Corkscrew vals on the sides... I like Vals


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

four leaf clover should work too. 

yeah, i agree with laura, you need some background plants.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

So i should move everything forward (as in plants) and put more plants behind it. As for the cave, i think it would be pretty hard to move it around, as it is not glued to eachother and can fall easily. I will see what i can do. For now i can't spend anymore money, (i'm spending more than i make) so i will not upgrade the lighting until at least the end of the summer, otherwise i will let everything grow as high as it can and then i will do the big rescape. Does that sound good? and you can give me ideas for backround plants too. I will look into the vals.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

So any suggestions of ANY plants that go ANYWHERE. You can let the ideas flow in. The first thing that comes to mind. Lauraleellbp, i will try and move the cave a bit over and facing a bit more to the front. You can also say what kind of driftwood or something to put in it. I was thinking of making it look like there are roots coming into the aquarium and going over the cave so it looks like it has formed under the driftwood.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Sounds cool! Can you get Manzanita wood in Canada, or will you be collecting your own DW?


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## deleted_user_16 (Jan 20, 2008)

as i sed, cabomba, stargrass, echinodorus angustafolia, giant hairgrass, elatine triandra, HC, tenellus 'narrow, and prolly thats it. ur eel might uproot any nice ground cover.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Lauraleellbp

I don't know if i can but i will try. I will be making them come down and since they won't come very flush with the rock so i will be putting moss and other plants on the wood to make it look like it does.

Fishman9808

Thanks again. I will consider your advice. Oh and can you (as i think i said in a post either on this page or the one before) can you please post a picture and say where you want it. Since you gave me such a good list i will ask just for the one you find the best for a picture.


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## deleted_user_16 (Jan 20, 2008)

man, be creative, do what you feel is good and gives the tank flow and equality.

favorite plants:

cabomba:










giant hairgrass:


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

thank you fish man. I have decided that i will just get people to tell me what they want to see in my aquarium and then at the end of the summer (maybe 2 weeks before) i will buy a bunch of plants to put in the aquarium, probably a lot online. Then i will up root everything and put them in seperate jars and then will figure out where to put them. Does this sound good?


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## deleted_user_16 (Jan 20, 2008)

no really, work with wat u have. trust me. try making the middle buldge out, so the sides have shorter plants and the middle taller and taller.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Okay. i want to do a total rescape so in the next week i will take all the plants out and rescape them. (first i will do a drawing and see what you think.) as for fish, i know it would be great to have 1 kind of show fish (angelfish) and a big group of one fish, but i find that it doesn't really matter what the aquarium looks like in pictures but what it's like up close. Maybe for one second the fish look scattered but when you see the fish moving it shows the real beauty of the tank. You'll see coryies popping out of here and there. the danios are swimming at the top, (the eel is gone) possibly some shrimp in a big forest. I find a greater pleasure in seeing different kinds of fish in a community, not just one kind. If you think of it, a community on the earth is made up a whole bunch of different people. different looks different personalities. And thats my reason of wanting to stay put with the fish i have and just group them more. (this was just and explaination of why, i hope no one finds it rude or offensive, but IMHO).


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I look forward to what you come up with. I like the way your tank just keeps evolving and getting better looking each time.  

PS- what fish did the eel eat? LOL


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

none so far. and by the way, i had a bronze cory and for the last while it's chest kept blowing up like a balloon. yesterday i way it and it looked like a walrus. is there anything you can think of that would do this. 

ps i can't find it anywhere.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 5
Ammonia - 0 

Oh and i just found that cory dead. Gah. It's a good think i'm doing a 35% WC.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

You said the eel is gone b/c you can't FIND it?  That's not good... you checked everywhere on the floor?


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

that sounds like classic dropsy. i had a SAE get it recently. i was told that it is the same thing as gout, but because its the chest, its usually fatal. 

it can be caused by next to anything. 
what sucks about our treatement of fish, is that there is no way to know what is wrong with the fish. we just list and treat symptoms with no clue of the disease. for example, fin rot meds say they treate fin rot, but fin rot can be caused by a gazillion different bacteria, and by many fungi. it does work on them all, since it is a broad-spectrum drug. but the problem with those is that while they affect everything, they dont actually do much on anything. 

oh and btw, thats red cabomba (cabomba fructa). the common cabomba is cabomba carolina and its green. there is another red cabomba (cabomba ph-something) but its really just a brownish green.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

how did you manage to lose an eel? arent those kinda big?

do they like to burry?
is it in the cave (i know the marine ones like caves, they are ambush predators)?


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

lol lauraleellbp.

I meant i couldn't find the cory. The eel was in the cave when i went looking for the cory. The eel sometimes buries itself under the sand.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

ooOoo that's better!


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## mavisky (Jun 18, 2008)

Wow, interesting thread. 

I'm surprised to see those plants growing that well, but good on your for taking care of them. 

Fish - this has to be the most randomly stocked tank I've ever seen. Any fwiw I just yanked all 3 of my GAE's after they began to get territorial at only about 2 1/2 -3 inches, rehomed them, and replaced with 8 oto's. At 10" for your 6 algae eaters, and about the same for your pleco, you're going to struggle to keep any stemmed plants rooted in that sand as they swim around.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

I love dem fishes. i will probably end up selling them but that only happens when they get A territorial B uprooting more than 2 plants a day (each), or killing other fish. that goes for all the fish. lol. i don't know how i manage this tank .


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Ok i have done the rescape. pics are a coming. PLEASE COMMENT!!!


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Okay first before pictures of the transformation, i want to show you where i 

The Room

































BEFORE TRANSFORMATION

Full Shot

















Right Side

















Middle

















Left Side

















TRANSFORMATION


Starting the transformation. First i moved my desk and put saram rap on it. and put towels on top of it. This is for what i put the plants on.




















Plants I Got









ID Plants please(I have an idea of what they are but not what their called. I think the last one is bacopa monneri)
1.








2.
















3.
















4.
















5.









Guess What?(my angelfish layed eggs in the middle of the process UGH)









Okay i had finally finished pulling all the plants and replanting (no pics of that). I had taken a garbage bag and made it the backround, so now it is black. On the left I moved the cave and made it a bit bigger. It is laden with plants and looks WAY better than the right side. As for the right side, it looks nice but since all the plants are short right now and haven't filled it looks fairly sparse. 

THE MOMENT YOU'VE BEEN WAITING FOR

Full Shot

















Right Side

















Middle

















Left Side

















New Plants in Aquarium

























Random Shots


















































Okay that's everything, if you have ANY Comments or Questions, LET THEM FLOW.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

keeps looking better :thumbsup: next project I would do is up the lights somehow. You can make one with compact florescent screw ins (the easiest way in my experience) or florescent tubes or buy one (may be pretty expensive if you go this route though) keep up the good work.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

well for lights i will be upping them up when i see the need too! i can just buy better wattage bulbs and put them in. Do you have any ideas of what those plants i got are? Thanks for the comment.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

1. some king of sword
2. looks like glosso
3. some kind of crypt
4. not sure, maybe a rotala or bacopa
5. probably bacopa monnieri


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Ya that confirms that number 2 is glosso. thats what a tag said on the plant but the tag was on the ground so i wasn't sure.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

yeah 2 is glosso. do you have CO2? glosso needs good CO2.
3. looks like a green wendtii or prava (cryptocorene species)

i like it. i think it looks much better.
a suggestion is that IMO it would look nicer if you got some taller plants for the background. like vals, or let the stems grow really tall. and maybe a tiger lotus would look nice in the midground. 
its a nice big tank, fill it up.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Ya i'll see how the glosso grows (if it does) and if it doesn't i'll put it in my shrimp tank. I'm going to let the bacopa and hygro grow till it hits the top of the aquarium. I want the cave to be kind of hidden in all of the plants so i will be adding different kinds of plants all around it. The tiger lotus is the EXACT plant that i've been looking for but i think i will have to order it online. Thanks for the opinions, let them keep flowing in!.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

the tiger lotus may actually look nice if you put 1 or 2 dwarf lotus next to it. that way you get a similar color, but with different blotch patterns on the leaves and leaf size. 

if your CO2 is really bad you could always make a moss carpet (just tie to slate rocks and lie down) for the foreground. 

maybe you should move 1 or 2 peices of the glosso now, so you can be certain you wont lose it? sometimes when plants do really poorly, they die even when conditions improve because they cant survive long enough to acclimate to them and start growing.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

well i already planted them all and i don't want to uproot them. if this doesn't work i want to try it with some christmas moss. So if i wanted to make a carpet out of that i would do, what? If i tie it to slate will it grow till it reaches the edges and then start growing on the sand?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Hey! Looky at all dem plants! :thumbsup: :icon_cool And your angels spawned; speaks loads for how that Fx5 has improved you water chemistry.  

I doubt you'll have much luck with glosso in your tank; too deep and not enough lighting to begin with, plus no CO2... but my 2cents on IDing your other plants;

1- Echinodorus 'rose'
2- Glosso
3- Crypts, prolly 'wendtii' varieties
4- Rotala sp.
5- Bacopa caroliniana (not monierri, unless there's a few mixed in?)


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

you get very flat peices of slate (the peices under in inch thin), and you tie moss over them, you place them touching as close as you can where you want there to be moss. there will be holes, but the moss will grow over them. it wont grow too much on the sand, because the current and the fish will disturb it and make it lift up if it is say 3" away from from the rock it is attached to. 
think of the slate with moss as tiles on a floor, the closer and the less gaps, the better.

some people also put mesh over rocks and gravel with moss, but i think its excessive, and that way you cant rearrange the rocks if you need to.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

I tied taiwan moss on slate here-








and christmas moss on slate here-


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Oh. Okay. i thought you meant it would actually grow on the ground lol. but i'm thinking about the slate thing. The cave i made is made out of slate but moss doesn't grow on it because it's to smooth. what are you guys thinking about?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Moss would probably hold to it even if it feels smooth to you. You just tie it on really well, and let it do its thing. :thumbsup:


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

lauraleellbp said:


> Moss would probably hold to it even if it feels smooth to you. You just tie it on really well, and let it do its thing. :thumbsup:


Yeah, Ive got some algae on the back of one of my tanks, and java moss is growing up it. I took the rock out, and a couple of sprigs broke off the rock and are now growing up the algae and look like little pine trees


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

i guess i can try but i don't want to take apart the cave and put it together again. i guess i'll stick to trying to just "cover" it up with plants so i looks more natural. I will also be trying to get some driftwood if i think it fits, but i do like it like this right now and think i will like it better when it grows in.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

SeaSerpant said:


> i guess i can try but i don't want to take apart the cave and put it together again. i guess i'll stick to trying to just "cover" it up with plants so i looks more natural. I will also be trying to get some driftwood if i think it fits, but i do like it like this right now and think i will like it better when it grows in.


you can just wedge clumps of moss in the cracks and it will grow over the rocks, you dont have to disassemble the cave


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

i tried that before and if fell off. i guess i didn't wedge it in good enough?


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

SeaSerpant said:


> i tried that before and if fell off. i guess i didn't wedge it in good enough?


Guess not. Try bigger clumps.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

ya i probably only had like 2 tiny bits wedged in it.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

I need some more comments, grrrrrr, lol, whine. I'd love to hear what everybody thinks. (pictures are on the page before this, _I think_)


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## mavisky (Jun 18, 2008)

#1. I'd say paint the back of the glass - will look better than the taped on garbage bag. 

#2. Up the lighting 

#3. get some taller plants - the tank looks half empty because there's nothing above the halfway point height wise.

#4. I'd pull some of the plants away from in front of the rock cave - you don't have much hardscape there and they totally block it off and make it nearly invisible. If you're going to plant something in front of it you could try some low lying moss or something or perhaps something with some tall stems that's not too bushy down below so as to block it off, I'd personally just leave the entrance open.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Okay well i did the garbage bag because i can't paint the back black, it is stuck in place and i can't move it. I will up the lighting when i get the money but right now it grows the plants just fine. As for taller plants, i am waiting for these plants to grow in as that i just put most of them in. (None of this was to be rude but i was just saying.) Oh and i wanted to kind of hide the cave so it looks like it's been there for a while and is very natural looking. I guess i can leave the entrance open.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

I think that the cave is fine  It's your tank, do what you want with it


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

WAHOO. Yeesh. It's been qute a while since i last posted on this thread. (i guess theres nothing much to update). Today i just went to the petsmart (maybe a 25-30min bike ride from my house) and picked up 2 plants. Something that i think is called scarlet something (sorry about the bad memory:icon_roll) and some cambomba. On saturday i will be getting some free plants from a person who works at the other fish store i frequent. I think he is giving me some lotus, vals and java fern. (i don't know if he's getting me anything else). I also bought 5 more glass fish, now my other glass fish isn't as lonely. I'll post some pics tommorow.


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## Kayen (Oct 14, 2007)

Wow been awhile since i've been on, nice progress.
Anyways me thinks you need taller plants ; p.
Perhaps try out some vals(which you are receiving), etc. and try some tricks to get a slope i nthe corners perhaps to elevate higher up. 
The top just seems so bare... lol.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

ya i know. It's because the plants haven't "grown" up yet.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Okay since the camera we have has a dead battery and we can't recharge it i need to post about something. So i'll post the fish in my tank:hihi: 

4 Angelfish - 3 Marble, 1 Gold 
15 Danios - 4 Pearl, 6 Zebra, 5 Gold
5 Harlequin Tetras
6 Cories - 4 Albino 2 Bronze
6 Algae Eaters - 3 Siamese, 3 Golden
6 Kuhli Loaches
2 Apple Snails
1 Peacock Eel
2 Bolivian Rams
2 Bosemani RainbowFish
6 Glassfish
6 Black Skirt Tetras
1 Sailfin Plecostamus 

Total 62

So thats it. _So far_


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

SeaSerpant said:


> Wow. thanks rountreesj, i am 13 and am trying to get a job that has good wages, probably by december i will have a job because 14 yo usually get jobs better (i turn 14 in november) otherwise i might have a job by the summer if i get employed by somebody i know. i have some java ferns but have NO idea of how to tie them properly. if i sell my old aquarium i will have 80$.
> SeaSerpant


You're 13 and your parents let you get a 120 gallon!?!? Mine only let me have my 10 gallon...

And Canada hires people as young as 13?!?!?!?!?!


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Yep. Actually your aloud getting a job at the age of 12 up here, if you parents allow you. And i do have a job now, at a Meat Shop . 10$/H.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Thats great pay! How many hours do you wirk a week?


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Well during this summer i work when the need me otherwise its every saturday from 12-5:30.


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## Saraja87 (Jul 18, 2007)

Can't wait to see it grow in! Who is the guy with legs?


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Okay i moved around some plants and added some. Here is the final result:

FTS









Right

































Middle









Left

















I'm still waiting for it to grow in, so i know that it is empty at the top. 

Comments? Suggestions?


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Saraja87 said:


> Can't wait to see it grow in! Who is the guy with legs?


sorry, i haven't looked at my thread for a bit. What do you mean legs?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Looking better and better every time! :thumbsup: The height on the Vals really helps.

I strongly doubt that A. reneckii will make it though- needs high light plus lots of CO2.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Thats does look great  When it starts to grow, it will look even better! Are you still dosing ferts?


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## mavisky (Jun 18, 2008)

I think the layout is pretty good for right now. I'd keep up what it is you're doing and just let it fill in now. Now is the time when you get to relax and watch it grow.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

lauraleellbp said:


> Looking better and better every time! :thumbsup: The height on the Vals really helps.
> 
> I strongly doubt that A. reneckii will make it though- needs high light plus lots of CO2.


Thanks so much.:thumbsup: Which one is the A. reneckii:icon_ques



clwatkins10 said:


> Thats does look great  When it starts to grow, it will look even better! Are you still dosing ferts?


Thank you Nope, i am thinking about getting root tabs to help speed up the growth. The fert that i did dose was going to run out after 2 doses so i just forgot it. (might use it on my 3g).



mavisky said:


> I think the layout is pretty good for right now. I'd keep up what it is you're doing and just let it fill in now. Now is the time when you get to relax and watch it grow.


Thanks:icon_mrgr I don't know about watching it grow but i sure hope it will! 

Any idea of what brand of root tabs there are and if there available in canada?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

The red stem plant that's all folded over in your pics.

You're gonna have problems with most red plants till you can upgrade your lighting. I'd hold off getting any more till then.

You might try letting it float and see if that will keep it alive till then?


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

The one in the middle or the ones on the right side?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Both. I'm guessing the other is Limnophila aromatica?


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

The one on the right side isn't, i remember when i bought it, it was labeled something scarlet or something. Maybe they still have it at the store, i'll check today. And it seems like my loaches have dissapeared. I had had 6 and now i never see more than 2 at a time. Any idea of where they could be?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

"something scarlet" means a common name, not a scientific name. The same plant species can have a million and one different common names LOL


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## deleted_user_16 (Jan 20, 2008)

scarlet temple?

i think thats it, maybe it was red temple,

either way, temples are alternanthera i believe.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Possibly i think fishman may be right. Now if i can only find the scientific name.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Alteranthera reneckii (A. reneckii)


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## deleted_user_16 (Jan 20, 2008)

well, it could be a variation on Alternanthera reineckii, there are many forms


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## monkeyruler90 (Apr 13, 2008)

the vals look great. 
get more and make a wall out of them, it'll hide that bag in the background.
btw, try and get some root tabs, that sand isn't very nutritious .


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

ya i need to. can you advise any peticular kind that works well?


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

I'm thinking of a rescape for this aquarium, it will require taking out the cave and maybe making a smaller one for the 2 loaches (the other 4 dissapeared... weird) and the frogs and eel. I will draw up a VERY detailed picture of what i want it to look like.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Take some pics so we can see how its growing


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

I definitly will. I will draw pics and take pics. The growth isn't huge but i do have one plant that is covered in algae but it can't be sucked off because my sucker fish are too big.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Okay this is what state my tank is in right now. I am thinking of selling the big pleco as it is bending my plants and buying a few ottos in it's place. The vals are growing like CRAZY. Thank goodness something grows good. Here is what my aquarium looks like now:

Full









Right









Middle









Left









Random Pics

























































I drew up a sketch making it just good enough for you to understand whats what and whats where. Not the heights and everything. I will explain everything after i show you my pics of the sketch.

Right









Middle









Left









LABELED

Right









Middle









Left









If you can't understand it i can explain it in explicit detail. I will be making the left side like a bubble that slopes toward the middle. The right will be similarly done. I will not have a cave in the end but right now i will because it won't be taken out until 

A: Everything Grows out
B: I get better lights

It will be made smaller so i can fit everything where it needs to be and since it will only be housing 2 loaches the occasional sucker/frog and the eel.

So thats it for now. I will take your ideas into consideration for the next 2 hours and then start scaping it into how it will look best.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Bump


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Okay, i have done the rescape and like how it is for now. All i need to buy now is root tabs and better lights. (will be done at the end of the school year) I will let the pictures explain the rest.

Full


















Right

























Middle

























Left

























Please comment.


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

The tank is starting to look pretty good:thumbsup:

Patience, let the plants grow more, once that is done then you can worry about scaping it.

If you don't have any mts (snails) get some because they will help stir the substrate.

If you're not injecting CO2 get plenty of surface turbulence so the gas exchange can happen and you get as much as possible out of the air.

Over feed a bit, get some nutrients in that sand.

Also, that trash bag looks terrible with the flash, if thats what you see in person I would look into changing it soon....

Nice progress, I hope it continues.
-Andrew


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Thanks A Hill. 
I have overfed almost everytime i feed (the way i feed them) usually there is some left over on the ground. It has grown expansionary but a tiny bit at a time. I almost wish sometimes that all the bubbles that are getting pushed in would go away so that the water looks crystal clear. The trash bag isn't even seen if you see it in person. (thank goodness.) I am slowly getting an outbreak of snails. So soon enough i will have a lot of snails. 

Thanks again
SeaSerpant


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## Kayen (Oct 14, 2007)

Want some mts?

Nvm... i probably already gave you some...
Also if you're getting an outbreak of ramshorns... good luck.
I am getting an outbreak too and they are decimating my plants.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Ya that is exactly what i'm getting. I hope to get 1 or 2 pea puffers soon but i have to get my qt tank and everything cycled.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Thanks for looking guys. You won't find anything interesting on this page but my rescape is on the one before this one. (lots of looks no posts)


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Please comment on my rescape (pg 27). I really want to know what i can improve on.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

It doesn't look like that much of a change, to me?

About the only thing that's really noticable is you moved the Vals. I personally would have put them in the other corner of the tank to balance out the sword.

All of your plants are still the same height; won't be that much you can do with the scape to really create impact until they've grown taller. Still looks good, though.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Well nothing is in the same spot and the cave is totally different. You didn't notice that? JJ. I hope it does look different though.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

You moved the rocks around some, but the overall placement in the tank looks pretty much the same, right?


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Nope. The ambulia is on the far left side of the aquarium, and to the right is the bacapo and then the hygrophilias, and then the other plant (don't remember the name) and in front is the crypts and then the sword plant and vals.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Here are some pictures of before and after:

Before
























After









So that was to give you an idea of how to criticize me. 
Please comment

Thanks
Seaserpant


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## deMastro (Mar 18, 2008)

More sand, bigger and more interesting rocks, CO2, more plants, 5 hours for concentrated aquascaping and inspiration!

Thats pretty much everything you need now.

All the best,
deMastro.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Thanks Demastro. I am hoping when i have the time/money i will get better lights co2 and plants.


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## Saraja87 (Jul 18, 2007)

I'd focus more on getting root tabs first, the plants will seriously thank you if you give them some substrate nutrients. I second laura on the vals, I think they'll help balance things more on the left than on the right. Another sword would also look good behind your cave, or a whole bunch of vals. 

You don't Have to do CO2 if you don't want to. If you're gonna keep the lighting low then you can create some beautiful low maintenance aquascapes without CO2 and with a lot of patience.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

i like it, but you really need something to go more than 1/4 of the way up. plant some kind of fast-growing stems, like anacharis. 
also, some giant hairgrass would look great near your vals, since both are simmilar, but you would have some contrast of leaf shape.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Hornwort might be something to try, too; incredibly fast-growing and would give you some height in the tank pretty quickly, plus I think it would contrast nicely against the plants you currently have.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

So i'm hearing hornwort, Anacharis and hairgrass. Thanks. I think i will put the vals on the other side and squish the other stuff together, Since right now you can't see any of the plants behind the cave.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

is that asian ambulia growing at all? if it is, dont trim it. let it grow tall. if you want to propagate it, let it grow tall first; since the taller it is, the faster it grows. with stems. 2 8" stems altogether grow much faster then 4 4" stems altogether.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Yes it its. It grow VERY slowly. I can barley even tell if it is. I'm hoping with a little bit of nutrients it will grow better.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

i dont think its lack of nutrients. its lack of light. let it grow, dont touch it. it may take it monthes to reach halfway, but then it will grow faster. at the surface, it will grow like mad, since there it doesnt matter how many watts per gallon you have, but how many watts period. at 65 watts with another 65 watts for 3 hours as a noon burst, it gets pinkish rings and grows fast. with your light, it could grow a 6 inches in a week at the surface, and then you cut it at an inch bellow the surface and replant it. or let it grow and flower.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Okay. I hope to get some root tabs soon. I'm thinking that will help.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

*Hopefully unexpected*

Root tabs, eugh, what trouble that, that would be. Okay yesterday (saturday) my dad had brought me to big als, i looked around for a while for various things and guess what i found (all new things will be in red):

























I thought to myself, for the cost of 40 root tabs i could buy a bag of ecocomplete, hmmmm, ecocomplete or root tabs:help: after a few seconds of thinking i got an idea:icon_idea, well one bag of ecocomplete would be great but if i put it in with some flourite that would be way better. So i went and bought both. After searching around some more i bought some fertilizer and some plants:









After a long needed wash of the flourite i took all the plants out of my 120g and flattened:

















Now i took a garbage bag and put the flourite in it, i brought it to the bottom of the aquarium and poured it out. After spreading that out i took the ecocomplete and did the same thing and spread it out, by now it was to dusty to do any planting so i let it sit a while:









After the dust thinned out until i could see i started planting. First i put the vals in and then the bacopa, and beside the bacopa i put the new plant i bought, crinum natans (scuse the bad pictures it's still a bit foggy):

























Infront of the vals i put the crypts to make a nice contrast between the two. And in front of the bacopa and part of the vals i put another new plant, bolbitis heudelotii (at least that what they said it was):

















Beside the crinum natans i put my other new plant, Microsorum pteropus windelov. Then the hygro and finally the amazon sword plant and finally in front of the amazon sword plant is the meazly cabomba. In front of the microsorum i put another new plant but that i need id'd and of course in the end i put a cave in (just for my pleco and loaches):

























The next morning, everything was clear and i could see where i put things, it turned out nicely to my liking. Now i can give you a normal update. So now i have put in the fertilizer and i hope that everything will have way improved growth. Time for the pics:

Full Screen Shot









Right Side









Middle









Left Side









Substrate









PLANT PICS(in order from left to right)

Vals









Bacopa









Bolbitis









Crinum Natans









Microsorum Pteropus Windelov









ID Plant Please

























Amazon Sword Plant









Cabomba









Inside Cave









COMPARISON SHOTS

April 26, 2008











April 27, 2008










May 6, 2008










May 12, 2008










May 21, 2008

















May 25, 2008










May 30, 2008










July 6, 2008










July 21, 2008










August 10, 2008










September 11, 2008










TODAY










After reading through my whole thread i feel like an idiot. I've been so mean to you guys, i couldn't tell until now. I haven't listened to you guys or taken much of your advice. I vow to listen to your guys advice and to take it deeply into consideration. Now i hope that i haven't offended any of you or formed a bad image of myself infront of you guys. 

Please comment and i will listen.

Thanks SO MUCH
SeaSerpant


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

That looks a lot nicer  The mystery plant looks like some kind of pennywort. Make sure you havent buried the rhizomes of your java fern or any other rhizome plants


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## fishboy87 (Feb 19, 2008)

I only say this from experience but if you have any fish that dig, you will soon/eventually have 1/2 sand 1/2 eco-flourite mixture.It definitely seems to be improving though so keep it up!


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

clwatkins10 said:


> That looks a lot nicer  The mystery plant looks like some kind of pennywort. Make sure you havent buried the rhizomes of your java fern or any other rhizome plants


Thanks for the comment.

Well the microsorum and bolbitis are both rhizome plants, do they need to be out of the substrate?



fishboy87 said:


> I only say this from experience but if you have any fish that dig, you will soon/eventually have 1/2 sand 1/2 eco-flourite mixture.It definitely seems to be improving though so keep it up!


Well i think i might end up with it that way anyway. I have corys and a pleco that all kind of get into the sand but they don't dig. 

Thanks guys

Fishboy87 that reminds me:

RIP
Peacock eel
:icon_sad:
He would have gotten into that sand and made such a mess out of it, for some reason i really miss him.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

SeaSerpant said:


> Thanks for the comment.
> 
> Well the microsorum and bolbitis are both rhizome plants, do they need to be out of the substrate?


All that needs to be above the gravel is the rhizome. They can still be planted in the gravel, just be sure that the rhizome remains exposed


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

clwatkins10 said:


> All that needs to be above the gravel is the rhizome. They can still be planted in the gravel, just be sure that the rhizome remains exposed


Thank you so much for drawing my attention to this. I moved my cabomba to where the "microsorum" is, now i know that that is java fern trident and i also am moving the bolbitis. I am fine with this because i already have a plan on what i'm going to do.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Looks great, Sea! :smile:

I'm pretty sure you have Java fern 'windelov' though, not 'trident.' Trident is rare and pretty expensive. There's someone selling some Trident now in the S&S if you want to compare pics.

The bulb on your Crinium also needs to be mostly exposed; at least 2/3 - 3/4 exposed.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

its windelov (AKA lace), not trident. sorry.

OMG, you have whorled penny wort. its an amazing plant, and i never saw it for sale online (just brazillian), and only once in a LFS, but they wouldnt sell it. lucky...

the tank is really getting much better. the only thing i would do is add a moss border around the center front which is bare. or carpet the whole thing in moss.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Lauraleellbp
I will make sure to pull the crinum out a bit. 

@[email protected]
How would you suggest i carpet the moss. With a big peice of slate or something? I would do that but i don't like the idea of having a big piece of hard stuff in the middle of the aquarium (personal preference) if there is another way i would gladly take it into consideration. Or if the Whorled Penny wort can grow into a carpet that would be awesome. 

I removed the windelov and and making a cave on both sides with slates and on the right side i will have the anubais and bolbitis and on the right side will be the windelov. I'm hoping i will be able to tie some moss the the slate on the right side because it will be mostly bare and on the left side nothing.

Thanks SO MUCH 
SeaSerpant


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

you can use mesh and weigh it down. or you could use a bunch of smaller slates (they are usually in thinner peices and easier to tie too). 

i dont know how the pennywort will grow with your lighting. it will probably grow taller, but i dont know if it will keep growing horizontally.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Ya i think it likes the light because i'm already seeing it all the leaves point up to the light. I will keep you posted now when something goes wrong/right and a one a week update.


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## monkeyruler90 (Apr 13, 2008)

how are things going?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Yeah, what happened to once a week updates? :smile:


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

oh thought id mention, rebornation is not a word. the noun of being reborn is "rebirth".


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Lol. Thanks so much guys. Theres been so much going on in school. It's getting near to the end of the term so i'm rushing to get everything done. I guess i wrote something wrong, i think i meant monthly updates  

Things in the tank are greener and are growing. There was a quick jump of growth when i added the new substrate, but now it's slowed back down. I will update it in a half hour at the most.

Thanks so much for still being interested
SeaSerpant


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Wow. i thought i had posted the last post a long time ago, but it didn't send. So right now from what the time i should have posted that last post is a half hour. At this moment i am uploading my pictures.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Well i am so sorry for the inconvenience but i can't get around to posting the pictures up. But i will today and for a bonus i'll post the shrimp pictures too!

Hope your not mad at me
SeaSerpan


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

of course we arent mad. we just want to see your tank. its improving fast, and its big.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Thanks so fast for not being mad. I am hoping you guys will have good comments and bad for my tank. I am ALWAYS open to comments. K here i go...

So it's been a while since i last updated. And here is an aparently much needed update  Okay since i last posted, my aquarium was pretty measly. It still is, and it is constantly changing. I hope to get some good driftwood to shape my aquarium on so that it will have an actual purpose to the scaping. Now for the pictures:

FTS









Right

















Middle

















Left

















Caves
Left Side









Right Side









Comparison
Past









Present









Thanks For Looking 
SeaSerpant


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

its growing!
lol

it looks nice. i love how your vals are getting taller.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

It is kind of hard for them to grow really tall because the filter output is in the way. I'm thinking that i will move the output on the other side because when i do (if i do) get the driftwood (which i hope will look like a stump) i will be putting it on the left side.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

The plants are getting taller!


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

slowly but surely they are.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

K so i will be posting up an updated list of the fish and plant list soon. I just have one question, how many fish would i be able to have, assuming their all 2"-3" long and their in an 120 gallon aquarium with a filter that is rated up to 400g? I am trying to focus on finishing this aquarium so that i don't have to deal too much with it over the next few years. 

Thanks so much for looking
SeaSerpant


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Okay if i went by the rule of thumb, 1" fish per gallon i would be able to get (obviously) 120" of fish. But apparently it doesn't go by that rule when you get into bigger aquariums. I'm thinking i wouldn't want to go over 200" of fish but i don't know for sure what i should/shouldn't be able to go over. 
Thanks
SeaSerpant


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

I have gotten my list down so i will post it now and i would like to here your opinions of what i should do for fauna (i'm not getting rid of any of them) and for flora. So here it goes:

Flora
Valserenia
Crypt
Anubais
Amazon Sword Plant
Amazon Sword Plant Bella?
Bacopa Monneri
Crinum Natans
Hygrophilia polysperma
Moneywort
Java Fern Windolev
Guppy Grass
Algae


Fauna
1- Sailfin Pleco
1-2- Black Kuhli Loaches (can't be for sure)
2- Red Bolivian Rams
2- Chinese Algae Eaters
2- African Dwarf Frogs
2- Bronze Cories
2- Apple Snails
2- Rainbow Fish
3- Golden Chinese Algae Eaters
4- Albino Cories
4- Angelfish
5- Black Skirt Tetras
5- Rasboras
5- Glassfish
13- Assorted Danios (pearl, leopard, zebra)
Total: 54


Thanks again
SeaSerpant


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Wow! Those angels are gettin' big!


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

now that you say that. I went to measure them and their about 6-7" from bottom to top.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Okay there hasn't been much going off with my aquariums (hence no pictures) but today for my birthday my parents brought me to Big als and i bought:
7-Harlequin Rasboras
8-Pygmy Cories
4-Bronze Cories (1 is an Albino)
Bacopa Carolinina

If you want pictures you can ask.
Thanks
SeaSerpant


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## Kayen (Oct 14, 2007)

Soo any updates Sea?
Also curious but i forgot how much light you had on this tank, sure after a month you would've gotten lots of good growth =]
Oh yeah a foreground would look nice !


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

yeah, is anything new happening here?
are the plants tall enough to give your fish any cover yet?


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Wow i'm so sorry i've been caught up in homework and holidays. Everything is very slowly growing and the plants are really leggy. I turned down the light period for the last five days and my bigger bacopas leaves kind of melted. My pygmy cories i think have slowly died off or are in hiding. Otherwise everything is great. 

My lighting is about 18wx4 so about 72w in total. I still need to upgrade the lighting.

I will try to get some pictures tommorow.

Thanks
Seaserpant

P.S. 
I did do a rescape.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Wow, that's really low lighting. No wonder everything is leggy


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## Kayen (Oct 14, 2007)

Woahh , that is low lighting , and if i recall it was reg. flouro lighting correct? Or are you still using that PC lamp as well i saw you use last i time i came over... ?

Anyways 120G, you've been working, an upgrade is due ;D ! 
And i have more lighting than you have on my 33g xD (78w T5HO)
I would say go for at least 1 wpg of T5HO, which shouldn't be too hard to establish.
How long is your tank again ? 

I can't find any lights longer than 4ft, but i suppose you could try this:
http://www.petsandponds.com/en/aquarium-supplies/c5813/c293075/p16873717.html

Since you're using a glass top i would go with multiple small fixtures, seems like most of the longer fixtures have hefty price tags on them .

But yes pictures please ;D


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Is your tank a 6 ft tank? Go with four 36 inch coralife t5 setups http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsU...6/cl0/coralifefwt5aqualightdoublestriplight36
Each bulb is 21 watts, and with four fixtures that's 8x21= 168 watts which isn't too bad


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## Kayen (Oct 14, 2007)

But BigAl's Canadian price = http://www.bigalsonline.ca/BigAlsCA...2/cl0/coralifefwt5aqualightdoublestriplight36 
= $80 per fixture & 80x4 = $320. He could easily get more lights for less imo - Sea if you're willing to buy some fixtures from aquagiant get 2 of the 3ft 2x39 watt fixtures they're $65 ea. so $130 + tax total, which since this is T5HO it'll give off way better output than normal T5's.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Viettxboii said:


> But BigAl's Canadian price = http://www.bigalsonline.ca/BigAlsCA...2/cl0/coralifefwt5aqualightdoublestriplight36
> = $80 per fixture & 80x4 = $320. He could easily get more lights for less imo - Sea if you're willing to buy some fixtures from aquagiant get 2 of the 3ft 2x39 watt fixtures they're $65 ea. so $130 + tax total, which since this is T5HO it'll give off way better output than normal T5's.


w0w! That's steep!


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## Kayen (Oct 14, 2007)

I know, being a Canadian Fishkeeper/ plant keeper means you have to put up the very BS prices.
Cmon AC20 is $30 now here, that it a horrible rip off! 
But Aquagiant sells stuff for okay prices... that's if you don't mind the chinese electronics ... anyways if you want to trust Ag stuff go for the lights i reccomended ..If not sea .. be prepared to dish out twice as much .


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Well i did have my eye on something in aquarium illusions (it'd give me 3wpg i'm thinking) i'll give you a link to a page with it on. (it would be around 600$. Right now food is floating in the aquarium so i'll take pics when the food is gone.

Have Fun
SeaSerpant


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

heres the link http://www.jlaquatics.com/info/171/Sunlight+Supply+T5+Lighting+Fixtures.html but i don't know which one(s) i should get. And my aquarium is 5' long so 60".


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

if you go with 3 wpg, youll need CO2. and its a 120 gallon, so it really should be pressurized.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Darn i'm thinking i'll go with something cheaper till i can get pressurized co2. Well i'll keep looking. Pics will be up in a sec.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

*Update!!! WOOHOO!!!*

K here it is. Just a warning the vals have grown in like crazy the hygro is REALLY LEGGY. The smaller bacopa has barely grown and the bacopa carolina is leggy too. So now that thats out of the way here it is:

FTS









Left Side









Middle









Right Side









VALS ARE TAKING OVER AAAAAAAH









Crypts









Anubais (actually two peices)









Bacopa Corlina (leggy)









Hygro (really leggy)









At least something grows nicely (guppy grass)









And there it is. Please comment.

Thanks for looking
SeaSerpant


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## Kayen (Oct 14, 2007)

Well that doesn't look bad. I would say go for around 2.5wpg, and budget around $700. 
$300 for a GOOD CO2 setup, and another $400 for a good lighting.

So from that link, i would say go for this:
http://www.jlaquatics.com/product/s..."+Tek+Light+T5+Fixture+-+6-Bulb,+6+x+54W.html 
The price is relatively steep but that's some really good quality lights right there.
But compared to what BigAl's has this beats it by far.
Pressurized CO2, try your luck ordering something from GreenLeafAquariums (pm Orlando) or get the Rex Grigg reactor if you don't want to settle for mediocre.


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