# Post Dry Start Depression



## poverty (Jul 8, 2013)

On a happier note here are some timelapse videos I did of my dry start.

http://vimeo.com/74072566

http://vimeo.com/74072565

However here's the bad news... 










I really didn't have a successful transition from DSM to immersed. 2 weeks after flooding I lost almost all of my DSM growth. I had the CO2 tank cranked +200ppm immediately, started EI right away. My only problem I think is I didn't do more WC from the beginning. My tank has finally cycled with ammonia and nitrites at 0. Nitrates are 5ppm, pH of 6.4 and KH of 8. I was almost doing daily water changes but it's because the water looks so foul after 24hrs. There's a nasty film on top. Could someone identify the algae that's in the picture? I'm guessing it's diatoms, and BGA but I would like to be sure. I've been spot treating the BGA with Excel and I have some Maracyn on hand but I don't want to dose meds yet. I really believe in letting things run it's natural course but it's so disheartening looking at all of the DSM loss and now being replaced by Algae. I guess I'm just hoping for some reassurance from the community.

21G Starfire
ADA substrate stack (powersand, powder ie penac..., New Amazonia)
Aquarium Rocks from a LFS
Eheim 2215
CO2 diffuser
10# CO2 Cylinder / GLA II Reg
200w Hydor inline
24.5C / 76F


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## levian (Apr 30, 2013)

Did you mean you added CO2 immediately after flooding the tank? Or after 2 weeks when you noticed the problem? By looking at your picture, I feel like saying it’s mostly diatoms, and maybe something else. But if you do have BGA and surface film, that might mean you don’t have enough water circulation/agitation, so I’d check that out. I can’t really explain why your water gets foul after 24 hrs though. (Maybe green water or bacterial bloom?)

You might want to get some otocinclus since they eat diatoms, but they’re pretty sensitive (Of the 6 I bought, only 2 survived)

Anyway, I had some sort of similar experience, but to be honest with you, it didn’t get as bad as in your picture. 

Basically, one week after flooding my dsm tank, most of my HC started browning. When I looked closer, I found out it was actually diatoms (maybe mixed with some other algae or something).

Note that I had co2 running, photoperiod ~10 hrs daily and was EI dosing right after I flooded the tank. Ammonia was around 2-4ppm and nitrite was about 0.5 ppm all week long. (I think people recommended reducing photoperiod time at first to avoid algae, but my tank is in front of a big window, so it’s a little bit complicated!) I also did 2-3 additional 50% WC only during the first week to remove some ammonia/nitrite

Then, I started noticing more and more algae, especially fuzz/hair/thread, GSA and diatoms (Probably because of all the ammonia). So I decided to use Nutrafin Cycle (the only thing I could find at my LFS) to help with my fishless cycling. Three days later, ammonia and nitrite were gone. I think it took another week or two before the algae started slowly disappearing. (I’m not sure if my 2 juvenile BN pleco and 75+ RCS helped, considering it’s a 70 gallon tank, but I tried to remove the green algae manually as much as I could during each weekly 50% WC)

Now the only algae I have left is some BBA on my driftwood/rocks... and also maybe some staghorn? But that’s just because of me playing with CO2 level :red_mouth

Erm... Anyway, from what I read, you might get an algae bloom at first during tank cycling, but after it stabilizes, diatoms should usually disappear on its own


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## norbot (Jan 5, 2013)

Awesome title :hihi:

In my 55, diatoms hung out for maybe a month. The story is that they are common in new setups and go away on their own. In my 29 I've never seen a speck of diatom.

My 20, on the other hand, has been plagued by diatoms. 4 months after filling, they were still choking out all the plants. I'm not sure why. Lately they've been making a reappearance.........Try to stay on top of cleaning them up as much as possible and focus on getting your plants to grow.

If you see nasty surface film, it's been said that your filter may not be in tip-top condition. Also improving surface agitation will help. You don't want that surface film there as it impedes gas exchange and o2 can become depleted.

That's all I got!


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

DSM will never save anyone from poor CO2.

Maybe it's the penac :redface:

Water changes are a must for a new ADA soil tank.

As in 3x a week(50-90%) for the first 2-3 week,s then 2x a week, then 1x a week after things have grown in well. You can also do this with Top soil/clay loam dirt etc(same effect). Dosing meds will no save you here.

Water changes, add new plants.


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## ThatGuyWithTheFish (Apr 29, 2012)

I promise you that you did not have 200ppm of CO2.


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## poverty (Jul 8, 2013)

The CO2 was cranked on day 1 of flooding. Bright yellow and based on the KH / pH CO2 calculation it was reading 200 ppm. I could be wrong because there maybe other factors adjusting the pH ie. Aquasoil but I don't claim to be a chemist I'm just following the little information I can find on the net. The pH is being read from API as well as a Pinpoint probe that had just been replaced and calibrated twice for 5 mins on both 4pH-Distilled Water-7pH for 5 mins to take a reading until adjustments didn't need to be made. The KH is from the API KH/GH test kit that's fresh.

Is there a more accurate way to test for dissolved CO2? My calculation with tests don't seem to match up the drop checker. I have my CO2 dialed back now because I've added some cherry shrimp and Oto Cats. My co2 test calculation shows 76ppm but the drop checker is more green than yellow. I also changed out the drop checker solution a day ago. Can the aquasoil throw off my dissolved CO2 calculation because of what it's doing to pH? The bubble counter is at about 3bps.

I've been keeping up with the water changes (once every day or 2) but it almost seems like the algae is getting nutrients from the tap water. Should I try the H2O2 and Excel Algae treatment or just sit tight still? When HC is browning and transitioning should I trim it? 

Thanks for everyone's input.


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

Do you have the time lap of it melting? I think it would be awesome to see the various changes plus the Co2 mist being pump into the tank.

You could always remove the algae and plants and start over with another dry start.


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## xmas_one (Feb 5, 2010)

I would get the animals out of the tank. Crank the co2, dose heavy EI, and no water changes. Trim and replant. Your goal should be a healthy amount of plant mass in the tank.


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

Or, get rid of the plants and do another Dry Start!


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## poverty (Jul 8, 2013)

xmas_one said:


> I would get the animals out of the tank. Crank the co2, dose heavy EI, and no water changes. Trim and replant. Your goal should be a healthy amount of plant mass in the tank.


Haha, it's an office tank. My staff has been giving me such a hard time for the past two months. Not sure my ego can handle another DSM lol. To the non hobbiest it really is funny. "nice empty fish tank", "umm I think you need to add water" 

No, I think I need to persevere through this one  We all give each other a hard time.

Any suggestion on a fast growing, nutrient sucking, floating plant that I can remove after the other plants have a chance to establish/adjust? Except for duckweed?


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## poverty (Jul 8, 2013)

FlyingHellFish said:


> Do you have the time lap of it melting? I think it would be awesome to see the various changes plus the Co2 mist being pump into the tank.
> 
> You could always remove the algae and plants and start over with another dry start.


No sorry I don't, luckily my co-worker needed his camera back. As interesting as it would be I don't think it would be something that I would want to play back hehe.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

You didn't mention your lighting - type/duration.


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## poverty (Jul 8, 2013)

houseofcards said:


> You didn't mention your lighting - type/duration.


Yes sorry, a Finnex Ray II 24" sits on the tank. 8Hrs for lighting with CO2 staggered 2HRs before and after the lighting period. Yeah the diatoms are out of control. Basically have taken over all of the melted plants in the tank today. :icon_cry:


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## ThatGuyWithTheFish (Apr 29, 2012)

You CANNOT use the pH and KH values for your tank water to find how much CO2 is in your tank. What you can do is take your measurements and let is sit for 24 hours so the CO2 will escape. Then by using the difference in pH and KH you can figure how much was in it.


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## ipkiss (Aug 9, 2011)

If you don't want to wait 24hours....

I tried the "shake the container furiously" from method 2 of this link here:

http://www.theaquatools.com/co2-calculations

and it seemed to work.


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## poverty (Jul 8, 2013)

ipkiss said:


> If you don't want to wait 24hours....
> 
> I tried the "shake the container furiously" from method 2 of this link here:
> 
> ...


How long should I shake for? This reading seems more inline with my drop checker. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk - now Free


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

^ Just do another dry start...


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

poverty said:


> Yes sorry, a Finnex Ray II 24" sits on the tank. 8Hrs for lighting with CO2 staggered 2HRs before and after the lighting period. Yeah the diatoms are out of control. Basically have taken over all of the melted plants in the tank today. :icon_cry:


On a tank like that, maximizing your co2 will only bring you marginal results. There just isn't enough plant mass to really make that much of a difference with strong light and melting plants to boot. Remember co2 is not an algaecide in itself.

If it was my tank I would cut away anything dead. Do a water change, load up the filter with carbon. You could use purigen too, but I like carbon. You have AS so I don't think ferts are that important, but you could certainly dose or just dose K. Reduce your lighting to 6 hrs or so and keep up with water changes and see where you are in a week or so.


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