# Fine tuning PPS Pro dosing level



## Bobbybills (Nov 30, 2015)

I recently started daily dosing with the PPS-Pro macro recommendations (less K) after appearing to have exhausted all substrate nutrients roughly 12 months after startup. I periodically dosed flourish and flourish tabs into a mix of fluorite, eco complete, active flora and flora max over the first 12 months, as well. Plants grew like weeds the first 6 months, several of them a few inches above the water line, then began slowing down and ceased pearling. I did a major trim to get rid of stalks and overgrown water sprite and water lettuce, the latter as much as half the volume several times per week to keep it from overrunning the entire surface.

At that point NO3 was 0 and PO4 between .05 and .1. PH is steady at 6.4 to 6.6 with very high light and pressurized CO2. GH and KH varied between 2 and 3 depending on the amount and frequency of Seachem REPLENISH used in the RO water change of 20% per week.

So here is my thought. After replanting back to pre-deforestation levels with several groups of Ludwigia and Rotala and then after 10 days of the 1ml per gallon of PPS dosing, NO3 was 50ppm, PO4 2.5ppm and Ca 35ppm, all with brand new top shelf test kits. I did 2 water changes of 25% each but now using Equilibrium instead of Replenish. I also dosed a few times with Flourish potassium and a few times with Flourish, but no where near the mfg recommendations. I did not record the amounts or frequency, but it was sporadic at best.

Since nutrient levels rose dramatically with 1ml per day dosing, the plant uptake is clearly less than the dose. So after the high readings, I skipped a day and then retested at the end of the day and NO3 dropped from 50 to 10-20, PO4 from 2.5 to 1 and CA from 35 to 20. So the next morning I dosed .5ml instead of 1ml and tests taken at the end that day were NO3 = 20, PO4 =.5-1 and CA 25. The 2nd day NO3 result was hard to determine so that is why I gave a range, same with the 3rd day PO4. Top off with RO water was minimal in order not to change concentrations if that has an effect.

My goal is to determine the amount of dose that keeps the levels constant day to day as opposed to actual values but still stay within safe acceptable ranges. BUT, if nutrients are not used in similar proportions, a 50% reduction in dosing could result in wide differences in specific levels either up or down, this I do not know.

After reviewing the most recent posts and photos of toxicity and deficiency, all the plants in question honestly look all the same to me regardless of toxicity or deficiency. Therefore, I think it wiser for me to fine tune the PPS dose based on changes in measurable values, instead of observations which if not viewed properly, could lead to sudden toxicity or a deficiency after the fact.

Should I continue this on and off dosing between weekly water changes and continue varying the dose amounts in order to determine the effect on plant usage, or is that an exercise in futility or perhaps even stupidity? I definitely noticed increased growth in many of the foreground plants after dosing, but I don’t want too much growth that would require daily pruning in order to avoid having to clear cut.

Thanks in advance.
Bobby


----------



## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

You are aimed in the right direction:
Maintain the PPS suggested ratio of each nutrient, but alter the whole recipe by X% (whatever works for your tank). Or, if you already know your tap water has an excess of something that is available to the plants, then start out with lower or no dose of that element. 

Then fine tune whatever you have a test kit for. "Test kit" includes observing the plants. 

Whatever products you are using, read the label carefully for active _and_ 'inactive' ingredients (when these are listed). For example, many fertilizers are derived from the sulfate form of a particular mineral, but the label does not often say how much sulfate will be added to the tank. Or, if you use calcium carbonate as a source of calcium, it might not tell you the fertilizer will also raise the carbonates by a certain amount. 

If you are following the NO3, as you have been, and see that it climbs slowly through the week but does not get too high, then a water change sets it back down to where you want it, then maintain that dose. You could split it into 2 or 3 doses and spread them out though the week. 
Then target the PO4. Plants use N in a ratio of about 10:1. The water does not have to have this exact ratio, but something close is a good starting point. 
Remember the fish food also supplies N, P and most traces, so when you alter the dosing by a certain amount, but see an odd test result, you are testing the NO3 from both fertilizer and fish food. You may have to alter the fertilizer dose again to determine just how much fertilizer to use. 

It will be an ongoing program as the plants grow, and as you get the nutrients dialed in. The plants will grow better without extremes and deficiencies of nutrients, and this might mean they will start to use more of something (or more of everything) because the fertilizer balance is getting right on target. As long as they are not showing deficiencies there is nothing wrong with keeping the dosing low enough so you are not having to wade into the tank with a machete each week.


----------



## Bobbybills (Nov 30, 2015)

Diana said:


> If you are following the NO3, as you have been, and see that it climbs slowly through the week but does not get too high, then a water change sets it back down to where you want it, then maintain that dose. You could split it into 2 or 3 doses and spread them out though the week.
> Then target the PO4. Plants use N in a ratio of about 10:1. The water does not have to have this exact ratio, but something close is a good starting point.


Thank you for your response. I picked the PPS pro method because i liked the idea of optional water changes and there was no fixed percentage, since I must use RO water due to insane hardness and copper, so making and heating 50 gallons in a single batch is not practical. Also, it is easier for me to remember to dose daily. I purchased the GLA products and the label does not give much information. Like my post said, I am trying to determine the amount of daily usage by the plants and then provide that amount, so I'll continue with the .5ml dose until the NO3 climbs too high. Again, thank you for your time.


----------



## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

Very high light you are using as mentioned, will drive the demand.
As plant mass increases,demand will increase for nutrient's as well as CO2 under very high lighting.
You have new substrate now?
Flourite and Eco complete have good CEC capabilities and after a year,I would expect the substrate to be fairly well impregnated with nutrient's from fish food's /fish waste,detritus,dead plant matter.
Point being,I doubt the substrate was exhausted.
Maybe a bit depleted depending on plant mass,stocking level's,feedings over a year.
Too much testing for me, to try and maintain what plant's might need per day but I would dose what method I chose call's for and put away test kit's for a while.
Might consider reducing the light if explosive growth is not wanted before I began practicing limitation, or trying to provide exact range of nutrient's at ?ppm
But that's just me.
Does your fish store use R/O water? any neighbor's use tap water with fish tank's?


----------



## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

To figure out a dosing ratio you might look at the EI recipe. 
Here is how I have been altering it:

I am mostly running low tech tanks, and EI was adding too much NO3, so I reduced the KNO3, but added in K2SO4 so the plants got the potassium. 
I reduced the KH2PO4 by the same amount, since I know the NO3 in my tanks was at least partially due to fish food (which also has phosphorus). 

I have recently been seeing some posts concerning excess trace minerals building up in the substrate and suggestions to minimize dosing of traces. This did not seem to be much of a problem with sand, gravel or other low CEC substrates, but in soils that can hold onto nutrients there does seem to be some possibility this is valid. 
For this reason, I would reduce dosing of traces (CSM+B) to perhaps 1/10 of whatever KH2PO4 you are dosing. Might have to add a little chelated iron, though. Plants use more iron than is in some trace mixes, and when you are dosing so very little I think the iron is helpful. 

I have found the fertilator at APC to be very useful. There are other dosing calculators, but each works a bit differently.


----------



## Bobbybills (Nov 30, 2015)

Diana said:


> I reduced the KH2PO4 by the same amount, since I know the NO3 in my tanks was at least partially due to fish food (which also has phosphorus).
> 
> I have recently been seeing some posts concerning excess trace minerals building up in the substrate and suggestions to minimize dosing of traces. This did not seem to be much of a problem with sand, gravel or other low CEC substrates, but in soils that can hold onto nutrients there does seem to be some possibility this is valid.
> For this reason, I would reduce dosing of traces (CSM+B) to perhaps 1/10 of whatever KH2PO4 you are dosing. Might have to add a little chelated iron, though. Plants use more iron than is in some trace mixes, and when you are dosing so very little I think the iron is helpful.


Diana, I think you are correct regarding the iron. I had it on order yesterday. I bought the CSM+B but have not started yet since I had plenty of Flourish on hand and had stuck in fresh root tabs. I did not want to overload the micros but the lower leaves look ratty so I thought that I would need some Fe. I am keeping the formula the same for now, just trying to adjust the dose. With these dry ferts all in one solution, seems too difficult to adjust more than one at a time.



roadmaster said:


> You have new substrate now?
> Flourite and Eco complete have good CEC capabilities and after a year,I would expect the substrate to be fairly well impregnated with nutrient's from fish food's /fish waste,detritus,dead plant matter.
> Point being,I doubt the substrate was exhausted.
> Maybe a bit depleted depending on plant mass,stocking level's,feedings over a year.
> ...


Original substrate which must have been loaded with macros since growth and pearling was beyond wild. One plant pearled so much that as the water flow made the plant sway, the oxygen bubbles were making a figure 8 pattern at the surface.

LFS closed a few months ago, and the remaining stores although within a 25 mile drive, have completely different geology. Some are municipal sources from reservoirs and some are private and township wells. The store I buy the most from keeps his tanks at roughly 8 GH and KH, while I was shooting for 2 or 3. But the copper is so high from my tap that the township had to install some form of remediation on the well that is 1/2 mile from my house. I live in the NJ Highlands which for NJ, is actually considered mountains.

Regarding the light, I do like the super brightness and would rather fine tune the dose instead of limiting the light. The tank is 90 gallons and covered 85% with plants, the other 15% is a shale rock pile for fish to hide/spawn/make out in. That is why I was surprised that the recommended PPS level would cause such a dramatic rise. I could only imagine how tanks with less mass and lower light are reacting.

Thank you people for your help.


----------



## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

Wow, so much fun Bobby. 
I have a question or two. 


Bobbybills said:


> I recently started daily dosing with the PPS-Pro macro recommendations (less K) after appearing to have exhausted all substrate nutrients …


 Why did you decide to put less K in the recipe, especially under very strong light?

Your NO3 increased from zero to 50 ppm in ten days of dosing 1 ml per 10 gallon. This solution is adding 1 ppm NO3 per dose per day. That is 10 ppm minus plant uptake in ten days. Clearly your 50 ppm NO3 did not come from this fertilizer. 

Your PO4 increased from zero to 2.5 ppm in ten days of dosing 1 ml per 10 gallon. This solution is adding 0.1 ppm PO4 per dose per day. That is 1 ppm minus plant uptake in ten days. Clearly your 2.5 ppm PO4 did not come from this fertilizer. 

Your GH was between 2 and 3 dGH before. Now after ten days you have 35 ppm of Ca. This 35 ppm of Ca represents 5 dGH. Where did it come from? PPS solution #1 macros and #2 micros do not include Ca.



Bobbybills said:


> ... So after the high readings, I skipped a day and then retested at the end of the day and NO3 dropped from 50 to 10-20, PO4 from 2.5 to 1 and CA from 35 to 20.


 Drop of 30 ppm of NO3 in one day? How? Plants cannot possibly have consumed that.
Drop of 1.5 ppm of PO4 in one day?
Drop of 15 ppm of Ca in one day?



Bobbybills said:


> My goal is to determine the amount of dose that keeps the levels constant day to day as opposed to actual values but still stay within safe acceptable ranges. BUT, if nutrients are not used in similar proportions, a 50% reduction in dosing could result in wide differences in specific levels either up or down, this I do not know.


 Maybe when you find an explanation for the above anomalies then we can get better results. 



Bobbybills said:


> After reviewing the most recent posts and photos of toxicity and deficiency, all the plants in question honestly look all the same to me regardless of toxicity or deficiency. Therefore, I think it wiser for me to fine tune the PPS dose based on changes in measurable values, instead of observations which if not viewed properly, could lead to sudden toxicity or a deficiency after the fact.


 You will do better if you reduce the very high light energy and dose as suggested daily until the ecosystem starts working. 



Bobbybills said:


> I definitely noticed increased growth in many of the foreground plants after dosing, but I don’t want too much growth that would require daily pruning in order to avoid having to clear cut.


 There is only one option how to slow down the growth and that is by reducing light energy. 



Bobbybills said:


> Like my post said, I am trying to determine the amount of daily usage by the plants and then provide that amount, so I'll continue with the .5ml dose until the NO3 climbs too high.


 That is not the proper dose for your 90 gallon aquarium. The recommended dose for macros is at 1 ml per 10 gallon, which is 9 ml, not 0.5 ml. 
And for micros 2 drops per 10 gallon, so 18 drops for your aquarium.



Bobbybills said:


> Regarding the light, I do like the super brightness and would rather fine tune the dose instead of limiting the light.


 I wish it was like that but unfortunately plants don’t work that way. 



Bobbybills said:


> I bought the CSM+B but have not started yet since I had plenty of Flourish on hand and had stuck in fresh root tabs.


 This is a joke right? Why did you named this thread “*Fine tuning PPS Pro dosing level*” when you have not started it yet?


----------



## Bobbybills (Nov 30, 2015)

Edward, I really don't joke when it comes to aquariums. The PPS recommendations called for K as optional, so since there is a heavy fish load I figured I would start without it. But I realized that this may have been a mistake, so I did pick up Seachem locally and started dosing less than the Seachem recommendations.

As far as the Micro, as I stated earlier I had been using Flourish prior to the dry fertilizer and had put some tabs in so I decided not to start the CSM+B until the Flourish was finished and the tabs had a chance to dissolve.

As far as Nitrogen, I am confident in the readings as they appear to go up and down with the decrease and increase in dose. This morning I continued with .5ml and NO3 tested between 25 and 50 on the Salifert chart, but closer to 25, so I would call that 30-35. But it clearly rose 10-15 ppm between last night and tonight same time. So the answer must be that I either mixed in incorrectly (using a Lyman scale accurate to 3 decimal places) or the GLA ferts were perhaps mislabeled or something. Since it does rise and fall in direct relation to the dose, there is a connection somewhere even if the numbers are off slightly.

Considering that I had 0 N03 and maybe .1-.2 PO4 at most for the past several months prior to dosing, and basically the same number of fish, plant load and feeding habits, I could not imagine what would cause N to rise from 0 to 50 in such a short time period. But since it did, I am either testing wrong, dosing wrong, or the plants are not utilizing all of it each day. I will throw out the balance of the macro and mix over again.

PO4 has been inconsistent but rose today after the .5ml dosing by .5.

As far as CA is concerned, I made too many changes in top off and water change parameters to isolate, so I just mentioned it. TDS has remained fairly constant around 135 ppm.

So again, my point is that in my tank, which has extremely high light, high plant and high fish load, I was surprised that the N03 rose that much, but it does seem to rise and fall along with the corresponding change in dose, keeping the ratios the same.

That is what attracted me to the PPS method; not having to tinker with specific ratios. So I will start the micro dosing using the Plantex to see if that makes any difference in the macro test results. No harm no foul.

Thank you for the helpful suggestions.


----------



## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

Bobbybills said:


> The PPS recommendations called for K as optional, …


 Please tell me where? 



> The PPS recommendations called for K as optional, so since there is a heavy fish load I figured I would start without it.


 Fish waste does not contribute to K levels. (Unless they consume bananas)



> But I realized that this may have been a mistake, so I did pick up Seachem locally and started dosing less than the Seachem recommendations.


 Not compatible.



> As far as the Micro, as I stated earlier I had been using Flourish prior to the dry fertilizer and had put some tabs in so I decided not to start the CSM+B until the Flourish was finished and the tabs had a chance to dissolve.


 Not compatible. Try getting the tabs out if you can. 



> As far as Nitrogen, I am confident in the readings as they appear to go up and down with the decrease and increase in dose. This morning I continued with .5ml and NO3 tested between 25 and 50 on the Salifert chart, but closer to 25, so I would call that 30-35. But it clearly rose 10-15 ppm between last night and tonight same time. So the answer must be that I either mixed in incorrectly (using a Lyman scale accurate to 3 decimal places) or the GLA ferts were perhaps mislabeled or something. Since it does rise and fall in direct relation to the dose, there is a connection somewhere even if the numbers are off slightly.


 Ok, something is not right and we have to find it. Consider this, get 1L (1000 ml) of water and test it for NO3. If it reads zero, then add into this 1L water 5 drops of PPS-Pro solution #1 macros. Stir it and test it again. Now it should read 10 ppm of NO3. If it does not read 10 ppm then you need to call Houston, because we have a problem. 



> Considering that I had 0 N03 and maybe .1-.2 PO4 at most for the past several months prior to dosing, and basically the same number of fish, plant load and feeding habits, I could not imagine what would cause N to rise from 0 to 50 in such a short time period. But since it did, I am either testing wrong, dosing wrong, or the plants are not utilizing all of it each day. I will throw out the balance of the macro and mix over again.


 The solutions content is not a secret. Solution #1 macros, adds daily 1 ppm of NO3. Think about your 50 ppm swings in just ten days.



> As far as Ca is concerned, I made too many changes in top off and water change parameters to isolate, so I just mentioned it. TDS has remained fairly constant around 135 ppm.


 Ah.., so you have one, beautiful. Even though you said ppm, which is not the right TDS unit for aquariums we can make it very usable tool. 
So, watching your massive water parameter swings it must have had an effect on the TDS readings. 
What is your water source TDS reading? (including the unit, ppm, EC or µS, please see http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/11-fertilizers-water-parameters/1013169-tds-meter.html)
What is your aquarium TDS reading?



> So again, my point is that in my tank, which has extremely high light, high plant and high fish load, I was surprised that the N03 rose that much, but it does seem to rise and fall along with the corresponding change in dose, keeping the ratios the same.


 The 1 ml per 10 gallon of solution #1 adds only 1 ppm of NO3 a day.



> That is what attracted me to the PPS method; not having to tinker with specific ratios.


Of course you don’t have to use test kits and change solutions content to make it working. There is too much misinformation out there. In reality, you don’t have to use any test kits to use PPS-Pro when you have a TDS meter. 



> So I will start the micro dosing using the Plantex to see if that makes any difference in the macro test results.


 First, I hope the Plantex is Plantex CSM + B and second, the Plantex CSM+B is micros, not macros. 

You have extremely high lights, high fish load and less than proper plant nutrients. It is the perfect recipe for a disaster. My recommendation is to dose daily solution #1 macros at 1 ml per 10 gallon and daily solution #2 micros at 2 drops per 10 gallon while keeping TDS reading at tap TDS + 100 with water changes. No need to use test kits.


----------



## mredman (Sep 4, 2015)

I am reading in enjoyment eating popcorn...

Mike


----------



## Calestus (Oct 1, 2015)

Awesome responses. 
@Edward , why are seachem flourish tabs not compatible with PPS Pro?


----------



## Bobbybills (Nov 30, 2015)

I use RO water (tds reads 6 when it sits for a while) so I was adding Replenish for water changes but switched to Equilibrium per the recommended dosage to get 3 GH. I have not prepared any new water yet so I will take a TDS reading once that is done. I've only had the meter a few days after starting PPS but did not record precise readings, but most of the readings for tank water were in the 135-145 range as best I can remember.

A few sources claimed that K was optional if there was not a deficiency since the other 2 macros would add what was needed, and I thought that I read some time ago that frozen fish foods contain potassium iodide, although in trace amounts. I feed two to three cubes of frozen food per day so that is why I said high fish load, I was referring to the high food volume. But after doing more research, I started adding the Seachem K not thinking that the source made a difference. I began doseing 1ml per gallon every few days which is 2/3 of their suggested amounts.

Since I had Flourish left, I searched the internet to see if it can be used instead of CSM+B and I remembered an expert saying that it was ok to use the Flourish as recommended because TE levels are not that critical. I just reduced the amount, like I always have, because of the root tabs, so as to not overdose on micros.

I will conduct the 1ppm NO3 test tomorrow before I make the new batch of macros just in case the measured values are true. I will make up the batch of CSM+B (yes it is for micros, not macros) and start that dosing instead of the Flourish. Removing the root tabs would require a lot of digging under plants that are just starting to root so I would prefer not to do that.

Again, thank you so much for your input.

Bump:


mredman said:


> I am reading in enjoyment eating popcorn...
> 
> Mike


Corn is no good for you....stay away from popcorn.


----------



## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

Too much light is no good for you .
Is easiest variable in planted tank to control/dial in.


----------



## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

Here is how I would approach this. Maybe just another way of thinking about it rather than an actual solution:

1) What are the ingredients in the root tabs? Some are just macros, some have micros. (Since you are holding off dosing micros, I assume you have read the label on the tabs, and they contain both macros and micros)

2) Fish food usually supplies reasonable amounts of N, P and most micros. 
Fish food is usually low in K, Fe, Ca and Mg. 

3) Sounds like you have the Ca and Mg under control with Seachem Equilibrium. Note that this also adds K. If your goal is to keep soft water fish, perhaps GH = 3 degrees, 4 tablespoons in a 90 gallon tank will give you GH = 3 degrees, 36.6ppm K, 15.1ppm Ca, 4.5ppm Mg, .2ppm Fe.
Q- Are the plants using this much through the week? What are the GH, Ca and Fe tests showing you? I think the Fe is in a form that must be used pretty fast or else it gets locked up in the substrate, so either way the Fe test will show little or no Fe after 24-48 hours. 

4) "Plantex" CSM+B is now Nutritrace CSM+B. Note that 1/8 teaspoon will give you .1ppm Fe. This is a chelated Fe, so might last a bit longer in the tank, but I am not sure how test kits respond to chelated iron. 

5) Aquatic plants seem to use a lot of potassium. I would use the plants as a 'test kit', and watch for small dark spots, or holes in the leaves as a sign of potassium deficiency. Dose the moment you see the smallest spots, don't wait for the holes to appear. Do the fertilizer tabs have K? Keep a close eye on the plants and be ready to dose as the fertilizer tablets get used up. 

6) Could the fertilizer tablets be contributing NO3 to the water? If all the tests and dosing are correct, and the extreme rise in NO3 is valid, it has to have come from somewhere! 
I think we are eliminating possibilities:
Wrong mix of fertilizers- how did the test suggested above come out? (almost at the bottom of post #9: add a certain number of drops to 1l of water, test NO3. This will confirm if the mix is correct. If it is not, then it will tell you how to alter the amount you add to the tank so the NO3 rises just as much as you want.)
Fish food- Since prior to fertilizing there was little or no NO3, and if you have not increased the feeding, then the fish food is still contributing too little to show on the testing (or plants are using up this much). 
Are you adding anything else that contains N (in any form?) Doesn't Flourish Comprehensive contain a small amount of N, P and K? Very small amounts. 

7) I do not think the form of the fertilizer matters. 
Tablets, liquids, dry... 
They ALL become liquids before the plants can use them. 
I would go ahead and keep on trying to figure out what is going on while using up whatever materials you have on hand. Switch over to the dry sources as each of the others run out.


----------



## Bobbybills (Nov 30, 2015)

roadmaster said:


> Too much light is no good for you .
> Is easiest variable in planted tank to control/dial in.


The suspicion is that the plants are not using the daily dose, so why would less light and therefore less nutrient demand help this. This is an honest unloaded question so kindly respect that.


----------



## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

With very high lighting, whatever that is,plant's most certainly ARE using the nutrient's and at fairly good clip. They have little choice.
Your test result's may be suspect in light of reported values that PPS dosing provides .


----------



## Bobbybills (Nov 30, 2015)

Edward said:


> Ok, something is not right and we have to find it. Consider this, get 1L (1000 ml) of water and test it for NO3. If it reads zero, then add into this 1L water 5 drops of PPS-Pro solution #1 macros. Stir it and test it again. Now it should read 10 ppm of NO3. If it does not read 10 ppm then you need to call Houston, because we have a problem.


Good morning Houston. Yes we have a problem. Took 1000ml of pure RO 0 nitrate and added the 5 drops (roughly 1/4 ml) of my solution and Nitrate reading was between 50 and 100.

Will remix tonight.

I do not have dry Potassium sulfate and you say that the Seachem potassium cannot be substituted. So the sources that say potassium is optional if there is no deficiency are incorrect, because dosing the Seachem would mean that there was not a deficiency. Am I understanding this correctly?

Again, thank you for your time and consideration.

Bump:


roadmaster said:


> With very high lighting, whatever that is,plant's most certainly ARE using the nutrient's and at fairly good clip. They have little choice.
> Your test result's may be suspect in light of reported values that PPS dosing provides .


thank you for that response. I think that the mix is off based on the controlled dose of solution per Edward's instructions. But, not sure if his 5 drops are 1/4 ml yet.


----------



## The Big Buddha (Jul 30, 2012)

Couple of questions.

Have you calibrated that test kit? If it's API I would check that first.

Do you dose according to tank size? Or water volume?

.


----------



## Bobbybills (Nov 30, 2015)

The Big Buddha said:


> Couple of questions.
> 
> Have you calibrated that test kit? If it's API I would check that first.
> 
> Do you dose according to tank size? Or water volume?


I had mixed several weeks ago the amount of NO3 in 1L then diluted that by 50 in order to get 20ppm NO3, and an old API test kit was spot on, the even older LaMotte read nothing. So I bought a brand new Salifert kit and when I got 50 ppm the first time with it, I tested with the API and got the same, more or less. None of these kits make it easy to read when you are in the 20+ range.

I believe my mix was off, I will know later tonight. I was able to verify that 20 drops of my pipette equaled 1 ml, as it should so there should be no reason why I cannot get this thing where it ought to be.

As far as water, I have a 90g tank and a 20g sump and that looks to be around 3/4 full, so I just guessed at 15 gallons plus 75-80 for the tank to get 90-95 gallons. I could be off 10g though. When I start up again, and I will, I'll use 9ml instead of 10ml but as the Edward gentleman said, that should only add 1ppm per day more. It has to be the mix, I either did not half it or read the scale wrong.

Much appreciated.


----------



## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

So it looks like your mix is at least 5x too concentrated. 
So take 200ml of your mix and add 800ml of RO water. 
Then repeat the test: 1 liter of the RO + 5 drops of the diluted mix.


----------



## Bobbybills (Nov 30, 2015)

Diana said:


> So it looks like your mix is at least 5x too concentrated.
> So take 200ml of your mix and add 800ml of RO water.
> Then repeat the test: 1 liter of the RO + 5 drops of the diluted mix.


Great suggestion but too late, I dumped it out of anger. With these Nitrate kits, values over 20 ppm are so hard to decipher but it was definitely 5x or as much as 7 or 8. You said previously that the source of potassium should not matter, how do you know this? I can order the dry fert from GLA and pay the freight which will be triple the cost but I already have the Seachem Potassium.

Thanks you for your suggestions.


----------



## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

These are all products intended for planted tanks with livestock. 
The products are made as safe as possible so they will not chemically combine with something in the tank and cause problems. 
There is the known problem of iron fertilizers combining with phosphate fertilizers. This is not dangerous, it just makes an insoluble precipitate that the plants cannot use. Simple to avoid this by timing the macros (including phosphorus) and micros (containing iron) so they do not form the precipitate. 

I would like to see proof of the other comments about how the products are _not_ compatible. Not posts from 100 people who say so, but lab quality testing showing that Seachem Potassium is incompatible with any of the fertilizers we have mentioned so far: KNO3, KH2PO4, Nutritrace CSM+B, substrate tablets (which ones are you using, by the way?) in any reasonable dose.


----------



## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

You can use any ferts you want, just use a calculator to meet the required dosage ppm. - Aquarium Nutrient Dosing Calculator . It'll do Seachem liquids

The only thing is Flourish Comprehensive contains a lot more Fe relative to traces than csmb (or less traces, depending how you look at it). Whether it can jibe with what pps is trying to do...idk, Edward can answer that.

Here's the ppm breakdown of both dosed for .07 ppm Fe, you can see the difference. Also Comp Fe is non-chelated gluconate, csmb Fe is edta, which gets delivered slower, and lasts longer.


CSM-B dosed for .07 ppm Fe 

B 0.008575804
Cu 0.000964778
dGH 0.01253792
Fe 0.07
Mg 0.015007657
Mn 0.020045942
Mo 0.000535988
Zn 0.003966309



Flourish Comp Dosed for .07 ppm Fe . 

B 0.001981275
Ca 0.030819833
Cl 0.253162917
Co 0.000088057
Cu 0.000022014
Fe 0.070445333
K 0.067583492
K2O 0.081452417
Mg 0.024215583
Mn 0.002597672
Mo 0.000198128
N 0.015409917
Na 0.028618417
NO3 0.067803633
P 0.000968623
P2O5 0.002201417
PO4 0.002861842
S 0.061045284
Zn 0.000154099


So..if you use Flourish Comp you will either be dosing more Fe to hit the desired trace amounts, or less traces to hit a certain Fe


----------



## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

I would go in the direction of less traces, but add some chelated iron to make up a bit more iron. CSM+B and some DTPA-Fe

Buying liquid ferts is paying for the packaging and shipping of the water. A lot of weight for very little active ingredient.


----------



## Bobbybills (Nov 30, 2015)

Diana, I ordered the potassium, iron and caso4 today from GLA. The money is not the issue, but when you factor shipping charges, that reduces the savings over local pickup. And I want to support the local fish stores, who do not sell the dry product as far as I know.

SO dry ferts it will be. I just want to get this right so I will remix the new product into the new batch and take it from there. I think that the extra iron will be needed and if not, oh well.

Again, thank you for your patience and guidance. You are very helpful.

Bump:


burr740 said:


> You can use any ferts you want, just use a calculator to meet the required dosage ppm. - Aquarium Nutrient Dosing Calculator . It'll do Seachem liquids
> 
> The only thing is Flourish Comprehensive contains a lot more Fe relative to traces than csmb (or less traces, depending how you look at it). Whether it can jibe with what pps is trying to do...idk, Edward can answer that.


Edward has answered that already and I am going to take the advice and switch from the flourish to the CSM+b which I already bought. I think I do need a little extra iron so I just ordered it along with the other missing ingredients. But it is good to know that there are options. Thank you for your input.


----------



## Bobbybills (Nov 30, 2015)

Diana said:


> I would like to see proof of the other comments about how the products are _not_ compatible. Not posts from 100 people who say so, but lab quality testing showing that Seachem Potassium is incompatible with any of the fertilizers we have mentioned so far: KNO3, KH2PO4, Nutritrace CSM+B, substrate tablets (which ones are you using, by the way?) in any reasonable dose.


Diana, sorry about the late response, I couldn't find the package. It is Flourish Tabs. Don't remember how many I have still buried but I put a few in when I moved some plants around about a month ago. Did you ever check to see how long they last, or does exposing them release too many trace elements at once? If there is merit to not mixing tabs with PPS micro dosing it has to be the qty and release rate of the tabs, that's my guess.

Bobby


----------



## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

The tablets will dissolve faster in a coarse substrate, with more water flow. In a fine substrate with less water movement they tend to stay in place, and the fertilizer does not spread out so fast. At Seachem web site they say 1-3 months. 

Seachem Flourish Tabs do contain a long list of trace minerals, but I have not figured out how they compare to other products.
Seachem - Flourish Tabs

Go easy with dosing micros until you are sure the tabs are finished.


----------



## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

Calestus said:


> Awesome responses.
> 
> @Edward , why are seachem flourish tabs not compatible with PPS Pro?


 Flourish liquid fertilizers are not compatible and the tabs can release unwanted nutrients to the water column.


----------



## josephla (Mar 4, 2016)

Edward said:


> Flourish liquid fertilizers are not compatible and the tabs can release unwanted nutrients to the water column.


 @Edward I understand that the tabs can release unwanted nutrients into the water column. I think that's an unlisted disclaimer when using any sort of root tabs, but you didn't say _why_ the flourish liquid fertilizers are not compatible, which I believe was the question.


----------



## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

Bobbybills said:


> I use RO water (tds reads 6 when it sits for a while) so I was adding Replenish for water changes but switched to Equilibrium per the recommended dosage to get 3 GH. I have not prepared any new water yet so I will take a TDS reading once that is done. I've only had the meter a few days after starting PPS but did not record precise readings, but most of the readings for tank water were in the 135-145 range as best I can remember.


Do you want to start growing plants or continue the chemical adventure? If you want to start growing plants then this is what I would do.

You use RO water as a source. RO water does not have enough Ca, Mg and K. So in order to fix this you need to add PPS RO Essential Minerals. This will reconstitute RO water back to the natural water levels and ratios. Please see attached table. The usual level is 3 dGH. To make it, add 5 grams or 1 tsp per 10 gallon or 40L of RO water. 

Next is fertilizer. My recommendation is to dose daily PPS-Pro solution #1 macros at 1 ml per 10 gallon or 40L and daily solution #2 micros at 2 drops per 10 gallon or 40L. (20 drops = 1 ml)

Then we have maintenance. This can be done by keeping aquarium TDS readings at water source µS + 100 µS. If it goes higher than that then water change is due. The water source TDS reading for RO water with RO Essential Minerals at 3 dGH is 160 µS. I don’t know your TDS ppm. We have to find it. Can you add the RO Essential Minerals to RO to 3 dGH and test the TDS ppm please?

Please don’t use other chemicals or test kits...


----------



## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

josephla said:


> @Edward I understand that the tabs can release unwanted nutrients into the water column. I think that's an unlisted disclaimer when using any sort of root tabs, but you didn't say _why_ the flourish liquid fertilizers are not compatible, which I believe was the question.


I am happy to help with PPS systems. But I cannot give advice on products with no credible information on ingredients. Additionally, Flourish Nitrogen contains Urea and Flourish contains Gluconate, these are chemicals I would not use.


----------



## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

*RO reconstitution*

RO reconstitution
Demineralized water, RO water, rain water and very soft waters have inadequate essential minerals Ca, Mg and K. In order to restore these minerals we use a variety of products. 

The problem is that some products are not following natural water mineral levels and ratios. For instance, the usual natural water Ca : Mg ratio is 4 : 1. Some products have ratios as high as 7 : 1 and as low as 2.4 : 1.

Another problem is the enormous K concentration. With 6 dGH we get 8 x the average tap K levels. This 70 ppm of K is unnatural. 

These mineral level extremes may be responsible for some aquatic plant problems.


----------



## end3r.P (Aug 31, 2015)

Edward said:


> RO reconstitution
> Demineralized water, RO water, rain water and very soft waters have inadequate essential minerals Ca, Mg and K. In order to restore these minerals we use a variety of products.
> 
> The problem is that some products are not following natural water mineral levels and ratios. For instance, the usual natural water Ca : Mg ratio is 4 : 1. Some products have ratios as high as 7 : 1 and as low as 2.4 : 1.
> ...


So... what do you recommend? How's aquavitro mineralize?


----------



## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

end3r.P said:


> So... what do you recommend? How's aquavitro mineralize?


What ingredients is it made of?


----------



## Bobbybills (Nov 30, 2015)

Edward said:


> Do you want to start growing plants or continue the chemical adventure? If you want to start growing plants then this is what I would do.


Not sure why sarcasm has to be part of the solution, but I already ordered the CaSO4 and K2SO4 based on your previous suggestions, stopped dosing both Seachem Flourish and Potassium based on your previous suggestions, so now I will dump the Equilibrium as well.

Again, I appreciate your time and effort.


----------



## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

Sorry Bobby, I was trying to simplify it for you. Growing plants doesn’t have to be complicated.


----------



## end3r.P (Aug 31, 2015)

Edward said:


> What ingredients is it made of?


Good question... it's calcium gluconate and magnesium chloride, but I'm having trouble finding proportions/percentages. No potassium, though, which is good (can dose that separately).


----------



## Bobbybills (Nov 30, 2015)

Edward said:


> Sorry Bobby, I was trying to simplify it for you. Growing plants doesn’t have to be complicated.


No need to apologize, I understand the issue of knowing what you know and not understanding why no one else does. Happens to me in my regular life at least once every hour.

Moving on, I did purchase 2 TDS meters, one dual console for the RO system and one hand held for the tank, but both read PPM. Are these a waste of money aside from telling me when to change the membrane?

BTW, I do enjoy testing, makes me feel one with the fish (and plants). Not my personality to set and forget, I wish it were, life in general would be less complicated, as well. But it did flag the error in mixing solution 1, just saying.

Again, thank you for taking the time to offer your assistance.


----------



## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

Bobbybills said:


> Moving on, I did purchase 2 TDS meters, one dual console for the RO system and one hand held for the tank, but both read PPM. Are these a waste of money aside from telling me when to change the membrane?


 I don’t think the meters is a waste of money. 
I have done some TDS meters tests please see post #25 for an update on ppm TDS meters.


----------



## mredman (Sep 4, 2015)

Diana said:


> I would like to see proof of the other comments about how the products are _not_ compatible. Not posts from 100 people who say so, but lab quality testing showing that Seachem Potassium is incompatible with any of the fertilizers we have mentioned so far: KNO3, KH2PO4, Nutritrace CSM+B, substrate tablets (which ones are you using, by the way?) in any reasonable dose.


Most fertilizers sold in the aquarium industry are simply fertilizers used in agriculture but packaged for the aquarium industry. We often see a lot of anecdotal information and speculation on this site that is not backed up with data. However, individual assessments are valuable if it is something you have seen firsthand in your own tank although we are all dealing with multiple variables and not a controlled test. I would go as far as saying some of the claims aquarium manufacturers make are also false and misleading. Do your homework.

Mike


----------



## Bobbybills (Nov 30, 2015)

Edward said:


> I don’t think the meters is a waste of money.
> I have done some TDS meters tests please see post #25 for an update on ppm TDS meters.


This is good and bad. I searched the HM Digital site and I have the HM model which uses NaCl scale and a factor of .5 to convert to PPM; so it is useful. The bad is that based on your 100 microsiemens limit (my laptop doesn't have a number keypad for alt codes) the PPM limit for the TDS-4 is 50? I am currently just shy of 150. Not good if the conversion is correct. The HM calibration solutions converts 342ppm to 700 microsiemens so I think that it may be correct.


----------



## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

Hi
back to your NO3,
you said you had an increase in NO3 from zero to 50 ppm in ten days by dosing 1 ml a day. Also you mentioned you made the solution with less K. 
For this to happen, you would have to make the solution without K2SO4 and use ≈ 140 grams of KNO3 instead of 29 grams per 500 ml. Possible?

Then you have experienced a drop of 30-40 ppm of NO3 in one day. 
I have no other explanation for this one than either 60 - 80 % water change or a test kit issue. 



Bobbybills said:


> This is good and bad. I searched the HM Digital site and I have the HM model which uses NaCl scale and a factor of .5 to convert to PPM; so it is useful. The bad is that based on your 100 microsiemens limit (my laptop doesn't have a number keypad for alt codes) the PPM limit for the TDS-4 is 50? I am currently just shy of 150. Not good if the conversion is correct. The HM calibration solutions converts 342ppm to 700 microsiemens so I think that it may be correct.


I would take three readings,
tap
tap with 10 drops of solution #1 macros in 1000 ml
aquarium

water change IF [ aquarium ] > [ tap with 10 drops of solution #1 macros in 1000 ml ]

The first two readings will not change, so only one reading will be needed to determine water changes. The aquarium readings.


----------



## Bobbybills (Nov 30, 2015)

Edward said:


> Hi
> back to your NO3,
> you said you had an increase in NO3 from zero to 50 ppm in ten days by dosing 1 ml a day. Also you mentioned you made the solution with less K.
> For this to happen, you would have to make the solution without K2SO4 and use ≈ 140 grams of KNO3 instead of 29 grams per 500 ml. Possible?
> ...


I did not add any potassium in the first solution 1 so I agree it had to be user error. I am going to perform the TDS test as you prescribed once the Green Leaf order arrives.

In the meanwhile, I have a question with regards to biological filter. Besides the planted tank, the sump has 12 pounds of lava rock and five bags of bio balls. Would this help drive down nitrate once the denitrifying bacteria had excess nitrate to work with? Could this explain the drastic drop once dosing stopped? I did not do a massive water change. Does PPS take this into account or is it not a relevant factor?


----------



## Bobbybills (Nov 30, 2015)

Edward said:


> You use RO water as a source. RO water does not have enough Ca, Mg and K. So in order to fix this you need to add PPS RO Essential Minerals. This will reconstitute RO water back to the natural water levels and ratios. Please see attached table. The usual level is 3 dGH. To make it, add 5 grams or 1 tsp per 10 gallon or 40L of RO water.


So mix dry according to the ratios in the chart and then dose 1tsp of that mix per 10 gallon RO? Is this the "tap" condition to start the TDS measurements from?

Thanks again for your help and consideration.


----------



## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

Hi
Biological filtration is more important than people think. Have you experienced slimy leaves, glass or other submersed hardware or yellow gunk in outlet hoses? Then you don’t have enough biological filtration capacity. 
Most companies make filter size recommendations of 2% or less per aquarium size. Ada Takashi Amano recommends 5% – 10%. The reasoning behind this is to have enough surfaces for beneficial bacterial to convert waste sludge to nitrate. 
When there is not enough filtration then the aquarium becomes the filter. Surfaces become covered in slime and algae starts growing on it.



Bobbybills said:


> So mix dry according to the ratios in the chart and then dose 1tsp of that mix per 10 gallon RO? Is this the "tap" condition to start the TDS measurements from?
> 
> Thanks again for your help and consideration.


 Yes that’s correct.
Happy to help.

Edit: You get better results with grams then tsp.


----------



## Bobbybills (Nov 30, 2015)

Edward said:


> Then we have maintenance. This can be done by keeping aquarium TDS readings at water source µS + 100 µS. If it goes higher than that then water change is due. The water source TDS reading for RO water with RO Essential Minerals at 3 dGH is 160 µS. I don’t know your TDS ppm. We have to find it. Can you add the RO Essential Minerals to RO to 3 dGH and test the TDS ppm please?


Made 15 gallons of RO, added 7.500 grams of RO essentials and TDS meter reads 196µs. Tank water reads 294µs. I also checked with the PPM meter and remineralized reads 105ppm and tank 156ppm. This is consistent across various solutions, the NaCl TDS meter reads ppm at roughly 1/2 the µs meter.



Edward said:


> I would take three readings,
> tap
> tap with 10 drops of solution #1 macros in 1000 ml
> aquarium
> ...


I remixed solution #1 and ran the nitrate test you described and it read exactly as expected, so solution #1 is ready to go.

The last test you asked for was 10 drops of solution #1 in 1000 ml of tap water, which is now the remineralized RO water. TDS was 260µs and 139ppm. Based on water change when tank TDS > mixed tap, time for water change (294µs>260µs). This is also close to remineralized @ 196µs + 100µs, so confirmed that water change is due.

I made 20 gallons so that is roughly 20-25%. Is there a set volume like the other system of dosing recommends? Or is just that the smaller change needs to be done more frequently since the drop in TDS is smaller? I started the PPS because of this flexibility.

After 5 days of dosing 9ml macros (recalculated tank volume to 75g + 15g sump water) and 18drops of TE. Nitrate has been fairly steady at 25ppm and phosphorus between .5 and 1.0. I assume the nitrate high because the water change is now due.

I think this should do it.

Again, thank you everyone for your valuable time and knowledge


----------



## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

Bobbybills said:


> … The HM calibration solutions converts 342ppm to 700 microsiemens so I think that it may be correct.


 What do you mean?



Bobbybills said:


> Made 15 gallons of RO, added 7.500 grams of RO essentials and TDS meter reads 196µs. Tank water reads 294µs. I also checked with the PPM meter and remineralized reads 105ppm and tank 156ppm. This is consistent across various solutions, the NaCl TDS meter reads ppm at roughly 1/2 the µs meter.


 First, I didn’t know you had both meters, TDS µS and TDS ppm, fantastic.

You added 3dGH RO Essential Minerals to RO and got an increase of 196µS and 105ppm, did you subtract clean RO readings from the values? 

Aquarium reads 294µS and 156ppm. 

Your average µS to ppm factor is 1.88. My and tanksalot is 2.65, (http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/23-algae/1012385-bba-w-press-co2-tank-3.html). I’ve been reading various TDS ppm meter sources and they don’t seem to follow the same conversion factors. They use the same base in µS and then they incorporate their own conversion factors to display ppm of some sort. 



Bobbybills said:


> I remixed solution #1 and ran the nitrate test you described and it read exactly as expected, so solution #1 is ready to go.


 Good to know, your solution and the test kit are correct.



Bobbybills said:


> The last test you asked for was 10 drops of solution #1 in 1000 ml of tap water, which is now the remineralized RO water. TDS was 260µs and 139ppm.


 I am interested in the actual increase rate. Can we assume 260 µS – 196 µS = 64 µS and 139 ppm - 105 ppm = 34 ppm as the increase?



Bobbybills said:


> Based on water change when tank TDS > mixed tap, time for water change (294µs>260µs). This is also close to remineralized @ 196µs + 100µs, so confirmed that water change is due.
> 
> I made 20 gallons so that is roughly 20-25%. Is there a set volume like the other system of dosing recommends? Or is just that the smaller change needs to be done more frequently since the drop in TDS is smaller? I started the PPS because of this flexibility.


 Either way is good though, consistency is preferred. 



Bobbybills said:


> After 5 days of dosing 9ml macros (recalculated tank volume to 75g + 15g sump water) and 18drops of TE. Nitrate has been fairly steady at 25ppm and phosphorus between .5 and 1.0. I assume the nitrate high because the water change is now due.


 Yes, perfect when the system is running. But right now we have no idea what compounds are in the water column and 20% will not clean it up. What is the largest % water change you can do?

Thank you for the update and the test results!


----------



## Bobbybills (Nov 30, 2015)

Edward said:


> You added 3dGH RO Essential Minerals to RO and got an increase of 196µS and 105ppm, did you subtract clean RO readings from the values?


196µS and 105ppm were after remineralization. From memory, PPM was 20 and µS was 40.

As far as the conversion factor, the HM website published standards and according to their site, the 342ppm NaCl equates to 700µS. From the HM Digital website; hence to 2x conversion from NaCl ppm to µS, and the .5 conversion from µS to NaCl ppm. 

"Solution Conversions

342 NaCl = 362 as KCl ; 478 as "442" ; 700 µS

1000 NaCl = 1060 as KCl ; 1450 as "442" ; 2000 µS"




Edward said:


> I am interested in the actual increase rate. Can we assume 260 µS – 196 µS = 64 µS and 139 ppm - 105 ppm = 34 ppm as the increase?


yes, that is the increase after macro added.



Edward said:


> Yes, perfect when the system is running. But right now we have no idea what compounds are in the water column and 20% will not clean it up. What is the largest % water change you can do?


I only have 2 spare heaters over 250 watts, so I can use my current 15 gallon drum and get a new 32 gallon in order to make 47 gallons, while still keeping the first gallon warm until the last gallon is made. This will yield 50%. Laundry room gets cold so the heaters are a must.


----------



## heel4you (Mar 8, 2015)

@Edward
I may have missed it and I do apologize if I did.
What TDS meter do you currently use?
If you can post a link, that would be appreciated.
I would like to buy another meter. Mine is only ppm.
Thank you


----------



## Bobbybills (Nov 30, 2015)

HM Digital

AP-2 for EC readings
TDS-4 for ppm readings


----------



## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

heel4you said:


> @Edward
> I may have missed it and I do apologize if I did.
> What TDS meter do you currently use?
> If you can post a link, that would be appreciated.
> ...


 Hi
any ppm TDS meter can be used for aquariums. The only difference is the reading values. Right now I am trying to get some conversion solution between them, not easy. Problem is people already own such a variety of meters and equivalent factor conversions built in them. I’ve been using a Cole Parmer µS TDS meter for a very long time. TDS meters don’t need to be periodically calibrated like pH testers, TDS meters are like multimeters, set and done. 

If you want to find what water change value is for your TDS meter then you can use the “What if my TDS meter reads ppm instead of µS?“ section for more information. Any questions, please ask.


----------



## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

TDS µS
40 RO
156 RO Essential Minerals water, 196 – 40
64 Fertilizer max, 260 – 156 – 40
260 Water change due, 40 + 156 + 64

TDS ppm
20 RO
85 RO Essential Minerals water, 105 - 20
34 Fertilizer max, 139 – 85 -20
139 Water change due, 20 + 85 + 34

It is nice to see it in clarity. 


Next is cleaning up the 294 µS or 156 ppm water column with 50% water changes.
50% WC 100% -> 50% 
50% WC 50% -> 25%
50% WC 25% -> 12.5% remaining contaminants

Looks like two or three 50% water changes with RO Essential Minerals will clean it up. 
Thank you for helping with the TDS meters.


----------



## Bobbybills (Nov 30, 2015)

@Edward

I'm ready to do the wc tonight, but I have a question regarding TDS slowly rising each day so that in the past 5 days, went from 266 to 300. Is this normal or perhaps an indication of overestimating the water volume by say 10 gallons and an overdose of 1ml macro and 2 drops of micro?


----------



## Seetide (Feb 25, 2016)

Edward said:


> TDS µS
> 40 RO
> 156 RO Essential Minerals water, 196 – 40
> 64 Fertilizer max, 260 – 156 – 40
> ...


Is the RO Essential Minerals available already premixed, or do you need to make it from the dry powders? Thanks


----------



## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

The slowly rising conductivity is a good thing, the question is how fast. Contributing is the substrate, fertilizers, rocks, plant trimmings, uprooting and feedings. In order to determine the fertilizer conductivity increase rate is to stop dosing for three days while documenting daily TDS readings. This is best done after there is a clear reading pattern for several days.


----------



## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

Seetide said:


> Is the RO Essential Minerals available already premixed, or do you need to make it from the dry powders? Thanks


 Hi Seetide
I think greenleafaquariums.com will be selling the PPS RO Essential Minerals soon. In the meantime you can make your own. I recommend using a strainer in the process.


----------

