# Mineralized Topsoil Help



## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

If you're doing the MTS process, it really does not matter.

You only have to soak long enough to float any wood chips out. The dirt can only get saturated after that point you are wasting time that could be spent drying out.


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

You are right that there is not a definition for garden soil or top soil. 

Garden soil is a marketing term and has nothing to do with what is in the bag. 
Topsoil is whatever was stripped off a site, often to prepare it for building. 

Read the ingredients. 
If it is anything like 'Forestry by-products', 'peat moss', or any form of animal waste then this is all organic matter. It can work in an aquarium, but some of these things will be rather coarse, and it may produce a lot of ammonia. Good that you are doing the MTS system. 
If it is anything like Sand, Silt or Clay these are terms with a specific definition in soil science. They are the mineral fraction that makes up a soil. Each particle has a specific range of sizes. The right ratios are very good in an aquarium. 
If it says humus this is supposed to be organic matter that is very well broken down, and is small enough to have some cationic exchange capacity. This is usually quite stable in the soil in the garden or the aquarium, and is a good ingredient.


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## Tcal01 (Apr 23, 2012)

Diana said:


> You are right that there is not a definition for garden soil or top soil.
> 
> Garden soil is a marketing term and has nothing to do with what is in the bag.
> Topsoil is whatever was stripped off a site, often to prepare it for building.
> ...


most of the ingredients just said "natural or organic matter" but i did see manure, peat moss, humus, and water soluble potash. it is drying now. thanks for the feedback


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## Tcal01 (Apr 23, 2012)

how dry does the soil need to be? its still kinda moist. is that ok? how long should i soak it? what i was originally going to do is soak it one day and dry it another but it is taking more time to ry than i thought.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

As I posted you don't need to soak longer than 15min. it doesn't get any more "wet" over time.

Dry should be completely dry. Rake it, turn it, stir it, what ever you need to do to speed up the drying. Each cycle AFTER the 1st, all you need to do is wet the dirt, you don't need to soak a 2nd time.

The initially soaking does two things, it will float out wood, leaves, plant matter etc. it will also allow rocks to separate from the dirt. Any thing floating after 15min in you bucket will float in your tank, pour the floating mater out, then dry your dirt in the Sun.

The more cycles you rum the more effective the mineralization is. My last back was 7-9 cycles as the rain added a few extra cycles. I spend a month aging it.

2-3 cycles will work fine.


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## Gold Finger (Oct 13, 2011)

I just boil the dirt for a few hours. It accomplishes the same end faster than waiting for bacs to decompose the organics. Some feel that this is not a good practice as it destroys the beneficial bacteria in the soil, but I and others believe those bacteria drown when you fill the tank and are replaced with more appropriate ones anyway. I reduce it on the stovetop until it is as thick as pea soup then add seachem stability to seed it with the right stuff when its cool and about as thick as brownie batter then pour it in the tank. If you want an ammonia spike to help plants leave it more organic. If you want instant fish ready with no spike take it down to less than 10% organic. I boil the hell out of it and aim for 100% mineralized. An advantage to boiling is not worrying about weird organisms like fungi causing you grief later.


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## Tcal01 (Apr 23, 2012)

Thanks DogFish. Not soaking it should save me some hassle. Gold Finger, i have quite a bit of dirt so i think it would take me a really long time to boil all of it but thanks for the suggestion. Do you guys now where i could get the clay, potash and dolomite.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

Tcal01 said:


> .... Do you guys now where i could get the clay, potash and dolomite.


Potash & Dolomite - Go to Amazon.com

I use Powder Red Art clay, find a distributer of Pottery supplies. Or if you have a local Pottery shop they might sell you some. I get mine in 40# bags.

My last batch of MTS:










Boiling is not an option when I make it. :hihi:


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## Tcal01 (Apr 23, 2012)

DogFish said:


> Potash & Dolomite - Go to Amazon.com
> 
> I use Powder Red Art clay, find a distributer of Pottery supplies. Or if you have a local Pottery shop they might sell you some. I get mine in 40# bags.
> 
> ...


yah i think boiling is a good technique but out of the question for the batch im making. this is for my 90g so i will need quite a bit. i asked my environmental science teacher and she said to get the potash and dolomite from garden stores but i think ill go with amazon. i read somewhere that you can get normal pottery clay and then let it dry and then grinding it up into a powder and then distributing it in the dirt that way.

how much dolomite, potash, and clay should i get or a 90g?


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

I add clay before the last cycle, so the clay and dirt are wet together and dried. I find I get it mixed better that way. 

Arron's recipe says 5%, I'm sure I'm using more as I don't measure. I stop when the dirt color has lightened up, having a peachy-red tint to it. I know that's not a great explanation. :icon_redf Maybe a better way would be to put a shovel full of MTS to the side, add your clay then check the color of the sample shovel full. 

I put down a 1/4" layer of MTS, then sprinkle Potash on it, Think crushed red pepper on a pizza. Don't get to carried way. the layer of dirt help the potash stay evenly distributed. Next I put down another 1/2" of MTS, if you are adding worm casing or Peat this is the time to add that layer. I would add my dolomite at this point also. The I add the rest of my MTS and CAP.

After my final dry,I run the MTS through a fly screen. I end up with very fine silty dirt that feel like talcum powder.


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## Tcal01 (Apr 23, 2012)

DogFish said:


> I add clay before the last cycle, so the clay and dirt are wet together and dried. I find I get it mixed better that way.
> 
> Arron's recipe says 5%, I'm sure I'm using more as I don't measure. I stop when the dirt color has lightened up, having a peachy-red tint to it. I know that's not a great explanation. :icon_redf Maybe a better way would be to put a shovel full of MTS to the side, add your clay then check the color of the sample shovel full.
> 
> ...


AWESOME!!! thanks so much for all the help. i haven't found any other internet sources with this sort of information so this is a great help. i will make sure to post a pic of my hardscape when the soil is all done


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

Here's my other trick. Before I put any dirt in the tank I place a plastic CD cover in one corner and made a Triangle void space. I fill the tank with MTS & Cap it. Next I add water to about 2" above the Cap. Then I take a Coffee Break. I use a syphon placed in the Void area to drain the water out. I gently press the cap and dirt before I plant and refill. I do the Void space in a back corner. After planting I fill the void with Cap Sand.

I find this extremely neat and clean way to plabr a new dirtied tank.

I don't put hardscape over MTS. I either have the Rock all the way ro the bottom or I use Bags of Gravel to prop the hardscape on. I used pea gravel inside a woman's nylon stocking.


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## Meganne (Sep 3, 2012)

a few things I did that seemed to make things easier.
I dumped mine in a large tote fro each soaking, this way I was able to much easier remove rocks and wood. the 4th soaking I used an old fishing net to cleanout the rocks by scooping the dirt into the net and swooshing it through with water while in the tote...worked like a charm.
to add the clay I soaked it till kinda sludge like and slowly add the dry dirt to it in a large bucket while mixing with a mixer/blender bit on a drill, adding water as needed.
I put my tank together whil the substraight was damp/muddy


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## Tcal01 (Apr 23, 2012)

DogFish said:


> Here's my other trick. Before I put any dirt in the tank I place a plastic CD cover in one corner and made a Triangle void space. I fill the tank with MTS & Cap it. Next I add water to about 2" above the Cap. Then I take a Coffee Break. I use a syphon placed in the Void area to drain the water out. I gently press the cap and dirt before I plant and refill. I do the Void space in a back corner. After planting I fill the void with Cap Sand.
> 
> I find this extremely neat and clean way to plabr a new dirtied tank.
> 
> I don't put hardscape over MTS. I either have the Rock all the way ro the bottom or I use Bags of Gravel to prop the hardscape on. I used pea gravel inside a woman's nylon stocking.


wait so the void is there so you dont suck up the soil?


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

Tcal01 said:


> wait so the void is there so you dont suck up the soil?


Exactly


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## Tcal01 (Apr 23, 2012)

this dirt is taking sooooo long to dry. our weather has been up in the high 70's but i cant find a place to put the dirt in direct sunlight.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

Tcal01 said:


> this dirt is taking sooooo long to dry. our weather has been up in the high 70's but i cant find a place to put the dirt in direct sunlight.


Raking & turning do help. Also the thinner you can speed it will help. The Process is about getting air at the wet soil so the bacteria can do their job.

I rake/turn 2Xs a day when I'm making MTS.


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## Tcal01 (Apr 23, 2012)

ok ill do that and see how it goes. i have been doing it once a day but that obviously isnt enough


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## Tcal01 (Apr 23, 2012)

On my fourth and final drying cycle now!!! the dirt is looking nice and powdery and, when wet, very fine and muddy. just need to get the muriate of potash and dolomite and clay. i wish someone had a package that sold all of them together lol


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## Tcal01 (Apr 23, 2012)

is dolomite lime the same thing as regular dolomite?


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## boxhead1990 (Aug 29, 2011)

I wouldnt say so as lime would cause a ph swing

Dolomite provides calcium and magnesium if my memory swrves me right

Can get it from places that sell stuff for horses as its added to horse feed aswell

Sent from my ST25a


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## Gamezawy (Apr 3, 2012)

i have read all this tread and its very helpful but i have 2 questions

Can i add a layer of peat moss with the MTS ? i just want to add it just to benefit the plants nothing else so ? will it benefit the plants

and i did a MTS tank before but i did collapse this tank because i moved, my question is i removed the MTS from this tank and it smelled very bad and some places were black
so is it normal or there is something wrong ?


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## Meganne (Sep 3, 2012)

Tcal01 said:


> is dolomite lime the same thing as regular dolomite?


 
I stole the bird's cutle bone and grated it to add dolomite, found that option somewhere on one of the threads on this forum.


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## In.a.Box (Dec 8, 2011)

You can get muriate of potash and dolomite and clay from a member here.
Nilocg, hopefully I spell his name right. He will sell you lb for $3-5


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

In.a.Box said:


> You can get muriate of potash and dolomite and clay from a member here.
> Nilocg, hopefully I spell his name right. He will sell you lb for $3-5


Yes, Colin's a good guy. He'll treat you right.


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

Meganne said:


> I stole the bird's cutle bone and grated it to add dolomite, found that option somewhere on one of the threads on this forum.


 used here as a calcium supplement for snails and shrimp :smile:


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

wkndracer said:


> used here as a calcium supplement for snails and shrimp :smile:


Put in whole, cut up or ground up? 

How long does it last?


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## nilocg (Jul 12, 2010)

In.a.Box said:


> You can get muriate of potash and dolomite and clay from a member here.
> Nilocg, hopefully I spell his name right. He will sell you lb for $3-5





DogFish said:


> Yes, Colin's a good guy. He'll treat you right.



Thanks guys, I still have plenty dolomite, potash and clay. Pm me if you have any questions.

Thanks
Colin


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

Colin - You're like the BeetleJuice of the site, post your name 3Xs and you appear.

:hihi:


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## Tcal01 (Apr 23, 2012)

thanks everyone for the suggestions and the reference to nilocg. nilocg, how many lbs of potash, dolomite and clay would i need for this tank with the substrate about an inch to an inch and a half deep? i think the dimensions are 48.5x18.5x24.677


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

DogFish said:


> Put in whole, cut up or ground up?
> 
> How long does it last?


Hey Dog,
I break off maybe 1" chunks (just busting it up) and drop it in the tanks. See the snails and shrimp parked on it from time to time nawing at it but never logged how long it lasts.


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## boxhead1990 (Aug 29, 2011)

I got my dolomite as a powder 

Sent from my ST25a


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## boxhead1990 (Aug 29, 2011)

Dont mean to hijack but would kh2po4 be a good substitute for muriate of potash? ??

My last batch I left it out as my water has it in abundance but im gunna add it to this lot 

Sent from my ST25a


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## StraightAddicted (May 20, 2012)

Does anyone have step by step of doing MTS on their journals? Or amazing reference to suggest for thickness of each layer?


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

StraightAddicted said:


> Does anyone have step by step of doing MTS on their journals? Or amazing reference to suggest for thickness of each layer?


I use 2' of MTS and a 1" Sand cap that can vary + 1/2" but not less.

i lay down 1/4" of MTS 1st, then I sprinkle on my Potash. It stays spread more evenly if I lay it down on some dirt vs. bare glass tank bottom. If you use dolomite this it the time to added it. Then I add 1/2 MTS . I usually ad someorganics at this point like Worm Casing & maybe a little ground Peat. I put that in 1/2" thick. Both are fluffy light materiel. When the rest of the MTS & Sand Cap they compress down to maybe 1/8". Then the sand cap.

Some people compress the MTS before the put on the sand cap, some after the cap. I don't think it matters when, but you should compress it with the palm of you hand.

Then plant and fill the tank


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## Tcal01 (Apr 23, 2012)

DogFish said:


> I use 2' of MTS and a 1" Sand cap that can vary + 1/2" but not less.
> 
> i lay down 1/4" of MTS 1st, then I sprinkle on my Potash. It stays spread more evenly if I lay it down on some dirt vs. bare glass tank bottom. If you use dolomite this it the time to added it. Then I add 1/2 MTS . I usually ad someorganics at this point like Worm Casing & maybe a little ground Peat. I put that in 1/2" thick. Both are fluffy light materiel. When the rest of the MTS & Sand Cap they compress down to maybe 1/8". Then the sand cap.
> 
> ...


would you add powdered clay at the same time as the potash and dolomite? what benefit do the worm casings and ground peat serve?


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

Tcal01 said:


> would you add powdered clay at the same time as the potash and dolomite? what benefit do the worm casings and ground peat serve?


I add my clay during the cycle. 

Go to my Toxic Ten (Sig line link) I have my thoughts and links about why I add some Organics.


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## Tcal01 (Apr 23, 2012)

i have some extra ada powder type aquasoil. is it ok to add that into the soil when i put it in the tank? some of the aquasoil is not being used and is still in the bag, but some of it is being used in a tank im going to tear down. can i put the used, wet aquasoil in too?


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## Tcal01 (Apr 23, 2012)

looks like i have more than enough soil and i just got the clay, dolomite and potash. now all i need to get is sand to cap it. i think was originally thinking of using some black sand but now im not sure. i have not used pfs yet so i was considering that too. which would look more professional?


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

Tcal01 said:


> ....now all i need to get is sand to cap it. i think was originally thinking of using some black sand but now im not sure. i have not used pfs yet so i was considering that too. which would look more professional?


It's really a matter of how you want your tank to look and what you want to look at everyday.


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## Tcal01 (Apr 23, 2012)

i think im just going to get whatever is available locally. if its black then ill go with that and vice versa


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