# 10g Work In Progress!



## Nightshop (May 12, 2006)

You gotta start somewhere! What are your plans for this? Going hightech or keeping it simple?


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

I am going simple. I am going to add a DIY CO2 unit for my plants since all the plants I see look great. I will be adding ferts(probably flourish root tabs and the liquid). Im probably going to add a couple more danios and some corys. Im going to have some Petite nana and Java Moss and some cryptocoryne wendtii for my tank aswell. Then I will go from there!


----------



## Nightshop (May 12, 2006)

Nice plant choices, all will do fine with DIY C02. Upgrading the lighting at all? Substrate? lol


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

No upgrading of lighting at this time. And I will pick up either some flourite or black gravel. Whatever is in my budget next month(most likely the gravel)!

I am going to PetSmart tomorrow to pick up some gravel and some fish food. Pics will come!


----------



## Wilder (Jan 21, 2006)

If you get the Flourite, be sure you rinse and rinse again before adding it to your tank. Otherwise you'll have a nice red cloud to look at for awhile.  You might also consider getting a background too. Solid black or blue, rather than a patterened background, would be a good choice.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Well I am going to use a plastic bag for my background! I am getting regular gravel.


----------



## blueguppygirl (Oct 30, 2006)

James From Cali said:


> Well I am going to use a plastic bag for my background! I am getting regular gravel.


The plastic bag seems like a great idea..I think I'm going to try that. Thanks for the idea! Did you get the recipe I re-sent you?


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

*Update*

*12/29/06*

Well I just picked up 2 more LF Blue Danios and also got a blue background!










IMO, it looks like a whole different tank when I added the Background. I mean their colors are popping alot more. I just wish I can get a good pic of them !

Here are the new Tank specs:
Fish:
6 Longfin Blue Danios

Plants:
None

Hardscape:
None

Substrate:
None

Ferts:
None

Tank Setup:
1 week

Equipment:
Neptune 50 watt heater
TopFin 10 HOB Power Filter
15 watt flourescent Strip Light
All-Glass-Aquarium Hood
10g Glasss Aqaurium
TopFin Glass Thermometer

Decorations:
Terra Cotta Pot
Blue Background


----------



## Justintoxicated (Oct 18, 2006)

I'd suggest a plant substreate, ESPECIALY if you want ground cover.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Okay but thats kinda out of my budget for a while. Flourite seems to be too much work at this time. Mostly due to the cold weather and my mom wont let me rince it inside!


----------



## Justintoxicated (Oct 18, 2006)

You could try Eco, It's better to save up for it than change it later...It's a PITA to change plant substrates because they tend to cloud the water...I used 2 bags of eco but you might get by on one, I still like some of the second bag left over.

Weather!??! your in Cali! gotta work to achieve results!

I'd recomend Aquasoil, but it seems to leach amonia into the water and unless you have something else to put your fish in, it may not be a good idea.

However others have switched to aquasoil wih fish in the tank, I'm just not sure how they did it. It severly clouded my water for about 2 weeks and I had to do several water changes. Then it leached amonia which I used to help cycle the tank.

Anyone know if the amonia problem can be avoided by using Prime? It will take less time to get rid of it in an established tank but I would hate for you to lose fish.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Well I might be able to get some flourite but I will need to convince my mom. She has all the money. lol.

Got a couple of questions before I go any further with adding stuff to my tank. Would black gravel look good against the blue background? I want things to look good as it is a show tank for most of my friends. What is the limitation for plants? I am planning on the following plants etite nana, Java Moss, Cryptocoryne wendtii, Water Wisteria, Java Fern, Anubias nana, and some other sort of ground cover.


----------



## Justintoxicated (Oct 18, 2006)

For some reason I can't edit my post, it just Hangs...
So here my my edited double post.

You could try Eco, no need to rinse but If you want to get fish back in fast, I'd do a 80-100% water change to help with the clarity. Some people have had problems because it changed their water chemestry though. It's better to save up for it than change it later...It's a PITA to change plant substrates because they tend to cloud the water...I used 2 bags of eco but you might get by on one, I still like some of the second bag left over. Some of those plants will be fine with regular gravel but a few would benefit from plant substrate (and you can add other stuff later)

Weather!??! your in Cali haha, ok Sacramento must be getting cold... But gotta work to achieve results!

I'd recomend Aquasoil, but it seems to leach amonia into the water and unless you have something else to put your fish in, it may not be a good idea.

However others have switched to aquasoil wih fish in the tank, I'm just not sure how they did it. It severly clouded my water for about 2 weeks and I had to do several water changes. Then it leached amonia which I used to help cycle the tank.

Anyone know if the amonia problem can be avoided by using Prime? It will take less time to get rid of it in an established tank but I would hate for you to lose fish.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Well on the changing the water chemistry, there really isnt much)barely any ammonia and no nitrites. So I think the flourite wll bwe alright. Its just I will be able to get it in febuary but I will need something to plant them in this month. I think the flourite will work if I can convince my mom tomorrow(I have to be sneaky lol).


----------



## Justintoxicated (Oct 18, 2006)

Definately pay the extra few bucks for flourite Thats what I have in my favorite tank. I have not had any problem adding flourite to my tanks. Just make sure your Really rinse it well...

I will admit that my plants seem to be growing even better in the ADA stuff. and I like Eco becase it's black and works well (thats what I have in my 10G).
Flourite is the easiest to maintain (gravel vac etc), but the hardest to plant ground cover in.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Yeah I heard its hard to plant ground cover in it. Would I be able to add it to the tank after taking the fish out and do a good water change or ould rinsing be the best way?

Well I just wanted to show everyone my plan for DIY co2 system(thanks to blueguppy for the idea).

Let me tell you what this shows lol. Okay now the larger bottle(Left) is the main CO2 bottle. The smaller bottle(right) is to allow the foam not to get into the main tube. Then I will be diffusing it through an airstone(preferably fine mist airstone) next to the filter intake. For further questions ask Blueguppygirl, I got this idea from her! roud: Once I find a good recipe I'll share with everyone!:biggrin:

*New Gravel*
Well they had no more flourite so I went with 20lbs of black gravel. I bought some Plant Gro liquid Ferts. My friend uses it and his plants look great so I am giving it a try. Pics will be up tonight.


----------



## Thanks (Oct 9, 2004)

Straight up gravel won't get the job done for any groundcover plants.

Is the blue background black on the other side? I think the blue looks horrible. Black is much nicer.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

*Updates*

*12/30/06*



Thanks said:


> Straight up gravel won't get the job done for any groundcover plants.
> 
> Is the blue background black on the other side? I think the blue looks horrible. Black is much nicer.


No its not. They didnt have any strate black as a background. The other side is planted. Once I get my plants it will look better cause They will hide the background.


Here is the new pics:








Once I added the gravel the Danios seem to have explored the terra cotta pot alot more. They now tend to swim in and around it but still mantain there position as a topdweller!









I believe that with the gravel and the background it looks very deep and draws a person to the tank alot more. The plants will grow in and cover the background!roud:  :biggrin:

Here are the new Tank specs:
Fish:
6 Longfin Blue Danios

Plants:
None

Hardscape:
None

Substrate:
20lbs Black Gravel

Ferts:
Plant Gro New Iron Enriched Aquatic Plant Fertilizer

Tank Setup:
Week in a half

Equipment:
Neptune 50 watt heater
TopFin 10 HOB Power Filter
15 watt flourescent Strip Light
All-Glass-Aquarium Hood
10g Glasss Aqaurium
TopFin Glass Thermometer
TopFin Mini Gravel Vac

Decorations:
Terra Cotta Pot
Blue Background


----------



## fish_lover0591 (Nov 11, 2006)

you could use cloth for your background  blue does look weird a little. but overall it looks good so far.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

fish_lover0591 said:


> you could use cloth for your background  blue does look weird a little. but overall it looks good so far.


Yeah, well Im kinda stuck with it because my mom said she bought it so I have to use it. What clor would you suggest? I would say black but we dont own any black clothe lol. We have bright colors that will dull the colors of the fish!

I had updated all pic captions. Also gave a review about my CO2 idea! Please reread if you have a chance so you can get more of the story on my tank!

*12/30/06*









Here is a pic of my new Java Fern. I had bought it for $4.24 at WalMart thinking it was a full plant but wht I discovered was 8 individual plants!









Here is a Java Fern that I had attached to my terra cotta pot using the rubberband idea. Im hoping by the end of next month I can take that off.









Here is the tank(at least part of it). Constructive criticism welcome.

I plan on selling Java Fern when I get it to look greener and less brown and when it grows a bit.

Here are the new Tank specs:
Fish:
6 Longfin Blue Danios

Plants:
Java Fern

Hardscape:
None

Substrate:
20lbs Black Gravel

Ferts:
Plant Gro New Iron Enriched Aquatic Plant Fertilizer

Tank Setup:
Week in a half

Equipment:
Neptune 50 watt heater
TopFin 10 HOB Power Filter
15 watt flourescent Strip Light
All-Glass-Aquarium Hood
10g Glasss Aqaurium
TopFin Glass Thermometer
TopFin Mini Gravel Vac

Decorations:
Terra Cotta Pot
Blue Background


----------



## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

ok, i know you're new so i'm going to try to go easy. you can't attatch the java fern to a pot. you need to get something more rugged, pourous (sp?) if you will, for the fern to root in/onto. a piece of slate, driftood, anything but that silly pot. hell, you could go outside and pick up some stray rocks and it would be better than that. don't dose that iron fertilizer. you're only going to create problems for yourself. you don't have any plants to fertilize yet. fill the tank up, and then think about fertilizing.

i tell you what. i'll GIVE you all of the r. roundfolia i'm about to trim if you pay the shipping ($5). of course, that's if it's in your budget. talk if over with moms and see if she'll let you. i use paypal. not sure if you have that set up or not.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Thanks. The problem is I cant find anything pourous enough for it to attach itself to! I wish I did. The rocks around here are to smooth and it just dont work. I will hold off on the ferts until I get more plants. There is a piece of wood outside but Im nervous because it is kinda rough and dirty so I dont want to chance it. Would making grooves in the pot work? Just enough for the roots to take hold.


----------



## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

i guess technically is would, but i think that's a waste of time. just get something better.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Well me and my friend found some small lava rocks and I decided that we are going to pick some up tomorrow. I am going to die all the plants down to the rocks so keep an eye out! And I dont mind the brutal truth, it will only help me later roud:


----------



## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

use cotton thread. i'd use black so that it doesn't show as much. i'm sure your mom has some lying around the house. it will dissolve in a few weeks and you'll be left with attached fern.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Okay, I will find some now. She will ask what I need it for and she dont want her stuff going near my tank lol.


----------



## Storm_Rider (Sep 30, 2006)

your mom's a nag dood. just do what i do- sneak in whatever you want when she's not around or not home. when she asks where it came from, just say you always had it. it's not like it ever works for me but it's funny, especially when i did it with my 50gallon tank 

do you have a petsmart around? its not that much better than a walmart but its definately a step above, especially plants. oh and i think long fin zebra danios look better. dunno if your petsmart is having the same sale, but mine has a few select fish on sale for a dollar each. i'm thinking about picking up a buncha neon tetras. cheaper than danios and looks better in a small tank.

keep up the work! i'm watchin what u do so i know what to do and what not to do


----------



## Blackeyes (Jul 6, 2006)

Congrats on your first tank, your to a better start than i was. i dived right into trouble, high ammonia levels, high nitrites. On top of it i was adding fish that were too big for the tank and i didn't quarantine them so as a result they all died, and that went on for a months or two. Well thats enough of my story, anyway the lava rocks would make a nice touch. As the others stated adding driftwood is also a really good idea, for one java ferns love it. Hope everything goes well, happy fish keeping


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Well I got some thread and I got about 16 Red Lava Rocks(due to many plants lol) and I am boiling them. I snuck the rocks in here because the are like palm sized and so I got away with it. Pics soon!

I have two rows of 8 but the thing is now I wont really have room for other plants. In a couple weeks I will probably start selling some!


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

*12/31/06*









I decided to take a shot from above. Just to experiment with different angles. I think I did good on this pic 









Here is the Java Fern now and how I decided to assort them. This way I still have planting space!









Here is a closeup of some of the Java Fern. The center Java Fern is the one Im keeping lol.

Here are the new Tank specs:
Fish:
6 Longfin Blue Danios

Plants:
Java Fern

Hardscape:
Lava Rock

Substrate:
20lbs Black Gravel

Ferts:
Plant Gro New Iron Enriched Aquatic Plant Fertilizer

Tank Setup:
Week in a half

Equipment:
Neptune 50 watt heater
TopFin 10 HOB Power Filter
15 watt flourescent Strip Light
All-Glass-Aquarium Hood
10g Glasss Aqaurium
TopFin Glass Thermometer
TopFin Mini Gravel Vac

Decorations:
Blue Background

Someone came and took some of the fern and the rest were sold to a LFS for store credit!


----------



## Storm_Rider (Sep 30, 2006)

I don't know jack about style yet, but I believe symmetry should be avoided. It's unatural, especially the sideways E you got going on. I'm guessing it's hard to do much when they're so new and small, but at least try arranging them in a slant or mound- I don't know, I'd hope someone else knows what I'm thinking but not expressing and will chime in. Slope the gravel too, personally I think any tank with a level substrate doesn't look as good as it can. Sneak in a big rock and do some hardscaping


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

I am looking for some driftwood/large rock for my tank. I had it in a slope but I didnt think it looked as good. I am going to rearrange the tank a little more before coming up with a main thing. Its hard to arrange them because I have these little plantlets. I have so many Ferns its crazy!


----------



## blueguppygirl (Oct 30, 2006)

If you find a piece of driftwood outside you can allways boil it to help it sink and remove the tannins. (Just a tip do NOT do this to your mom's favorite stock pot! it will turn brown.) Another little tip... driftwood will lower the ph of your tank.
Have you thought about putting more plants on fewer rocks. say 3-4 plantlets per rock. this would bring the number of rocks down to 4-5. It would reduce the amount of space they take up so you have more room for the other plants you intend to get. You could also try moss on the remaining rocks. I agree that your setup is a little too calculated, it's not natural enough. What would it look like if you had just dropped them in without plotting each possition?

Your diagram of co2 setup has one small flaw. The smaller bottle should be the one with two hoses since it is the overflow.
If This was my tank, I would move the diffuser to just under the water that is returning to the tank. (assuming this is a H.O.B. filter) The bubbles make a funny noise when they hit the impeller. 
Keep an eye on your water parameters since your tank is not done with the cycle. 
Keep me updated on your progress!


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

*Update*

*1/1/07*









My Java Fern in a corner. I had moved it to this area due to that my crypts are going to be on the opposite end(all but one). 

Would Petite nana be a good foreground plant without tieing it to a rock/wood? I am just wondering because I want to add it along with my Java moss as my starting foreground. Okay on to more of what I am going to do with the tank. I am going to be adding some Cryptocoryne Undulata after a couple months, I want to see how the wendtii will do. I am going to be buying a way better thermometer! The one I own sucks. I am going to try to find an incandescent hood and get some better lighting. This brings me to my next question. At Petsmart they have an AGA Incandescent light/hood, but the lady said that you couldnt convert it to flourescent. True or not true? It looks like this(clickity click)! 

Anyway I am also planning to upgrade filtration to a Aquaclear 20. I want to have sufficient filtration for the bioload that will be within the tank. I am also going to pick up Laterite. Anyone have experience with it? This is what I want(another link lol). After upgrading the filtration I wanted to add something of this sort in my tank:

6 LF Blue Danios(Current)
2 Male Cherry Barbs
3 Peppered Corys

I think it would work if I continue to do 50% wc's. And add some plants that would survive off the nitrates! I will post pics tonight of my tank when there is no glare lol. Oh and Happy New Years Everyone *celebrate

P.S. K BGG. I will adjust it when I get it setup!


----------



## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

Java fern would root to terra-cotta over time, a few months. I have had it root to acrylic.
Even though your tank is new and only has a few plants/fish, laterite is gonna be big trouble unless you emtpy the tank, and even if you do get it, it would be pointless without better lighting. The dual incandescent hood with 2 cf screw ins is the way you want to go? it would be cheapest, but may need to be cooled somehow.

you sound alot like me, im 16 and have to argue with the parents about new tanks, but they could careless what i do to existing tanks. Try doing something to earn yourself some money, such as growing some stem plants and selling cuttings, breeding something, or bagging groceries. I sold stuff out of all my tanks to help fund my needs, then i got a job, and it's much easier, although i have on/off money periods, as i draw deck plans for my dad, and he does remodels and stuff too, so i have to wait inbetween those.

I think a peice of driftwood would be great for the tank. Find a peice you like, boil it in an old pan twice, then let it cool and put it in a bucket of water 'till it sinks, that's what i do. 

The petite nana, although a great plant, is incredibly small, and easily(and literally) lost in a heavily planted tank. It is a little more suited for nano's. plus, anubias are slow growers, so if you were thinking ground cover, it would be faster to watch the paint dry, much faster!

I have a huge bronze wentii crypt in my 10gallon, and it is shooting out runners like every few weeks. I bought it potted, and can see the advantage. It had an awesome root system, and never seemed to stop growing after the transplant, but the old crypt(not potted) i had in here melted in a few months.

If you have enough money, The13watt Bright Kits The 13 watt double kit would be great, and you can't beat the price, only you'll have to put it all together.


----------



## Simoriax (Jul 13, 2005)

What plants are you going to add and when are you planning to add them?

Would have been a better idea to have saved up a good sum of money instead of rushing in and being disappointed with the results. Would probably only need one bag of flourite? Something to think about. The aquarium is looking a little sad at the moment.


----------



## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

I found that flourite seems like a waste of money. I am growing all kinds of plants well in Plain old sand. Apperently, brine shrimp leftovers have all the fertilizers i need!

The flourite in my 55 clouds everytime i move a plant, but is getting better. I think the swords are doing better in that tank, but i am growing a huge crypt in the 10 with no problems.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Well I found about 14 MTS in my tank and I dont know what to do! I dont want them to eat my ferns. Anyway are they harmful to my plants? And do they put much into my bioload?


----------



## mrbelvedere (Nov 15, 2005)

James From Cali said:


> Well I found about 14 MTS in my tank and I dont know what to do! I dont want them to eat my ferns. Anyway are they harmful to my plants? And do they put much into my bioload?


No, and very little. Unless you have a lot of them. I have hundreds. With so little plant matter in such low light with such a slow growing plant you really do not need fertilizer.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Okay thanks. I can see them burrowing and found out it shifts the gravel causing beneficial nutrients for plants to fly into the water.


----------



## Blackeyes (Jul 6, 2006)

dufus said:


> I found that flourite seems like a waste of money. I am growing all kinds of plants well in Plain old sand. Apperently, brine shrimp leftovers have all the fertilizers i need!
> 
> The flourite in my 55 clouds everytime i move a plant, but is getting better. I think the swords are doing better in that tank, but i am growing a huge crypt in the 10 with no problems.


now i wouldn't call flourite a waste of money, even for the fact that it is hard to plant ground cover with that doesn't make it bad. I have to agree with you, the plants do benefit from it greatly the two crypts i bought almost 4 - 5 months ago are now incredibly huge, even after trimming them they just grow new shoots very quickly; I am actually in the process of getting rid one of the biggest crypts i have. I have the same problem, when i try to move plants around but i get used to it, plus alot of it gets sucked up by the filtration anyway, but then comes the messy part when you have to clean it out




Simoriax said:


> What plants are you going to add and when are you planning to add them?
> 
> Would have been a better idea to have saved up a good sum of money instead of rushing in and being disappointed with the results. Would probably only need one bag of flourite? Something to think about. The aquarium is looking a little sad at the moment.


I second that


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Simoriax said:


> What plants are you going to add and when are you planning to add them?
> 
> Would have been a better idea to have saved up a good sum of money instead of rushing in and being disappointed with the results. Would probably only need one bag of flourite? Something to think about. The aquarium is looking a little sad at the moment.


Yeah it would have been better.. I think of it this way trial and error. I can see what works and what dont. In about 2 months I will be getting an incandescent hood and switch to some Spiral Flourescents, probably 13-15 watts each. That should give me about 2.6-3 wpg. Then I can try to find some eco complete. I am saving up my money to upgrade alot of things.

Oh and I want to say that no matter how much I try I wont have a tank that compares to your tanks people lol. Im in the learning stage of planted tanks lol.


----------



## Blackeyes (Jul 6, 2006)

James From Cali said:


> Yeah it would have been better.. I think of it this way trial and error. I can see what works and what dont. In about 2 months I will be getting an incandescent hood and switch to some Spiral Flourescents, probably 13-15 watts each. That should give me about 2.6-3 wpg. Then I can try to find some eco complete. I am saving up my money to upgrade alot of things.
> 
> Oh and I want to say that no matter how much I try I wont have a tank that compares to your tanks people lol. Im in the learning stage of planted tanks lol.


Aren't we all in the learning stage of planted tanks?


----------



## blueguppygirl (Oct 30, 2006)

James From Cali said:


> This brings me to my next question. At Petsmart they have an AGA Incandescent light/hood, but the lady said that you couldnt convert it to flourescent. True or not true? It looks like this(clickity click)!


I have a hood that looks just like the one in the link and I didn't have any problems screwing in these...

How's everything going so far?


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Blackeyes said:


> Aren't we all in the learning stage of planted tanks?


Well from what I see with most of these tanks, some of you can be experts. I see tanks that have plants that I attempted to try and they looked 10x's better then mine lol.


----------



## Blackeyes (Jul 6, 2006)

James From Cali said:


> Well from what I see with most of these tanks, some of you can be experts. I see tanks that have plants that I attempted to try and they looked 10x's better then mine lol.


There are many people here, are just being to venture into the hobby of the planted aquarium. Including me, having only been with the planted aquarium for 7 months. I just have a few easy growers: Wistera, Cryptcoryne Willisii "Lucens", another crypt that i forgot the name of, java fern, tropic sword


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

blueguppygirl said:


> I have a hood that looks just like the one in the link and I didn't have any problems screwing in these...
> 
> How's everything going so far?


Thats the kind that we have round here and the only thing is that they have more of a yellowish glow rather than a white glow.


----------



## blueguppygirl (Oct 30, 2006)

Blackeyes said:


> There are many people here, are just being to venture into the hobby of the planted aquarium. Including me, having only been with the planted aquarium for 7 months.


Isn't it amazing what you can learn in less than a year? I've only had a planted tank for a year and I'm still surprised at what I'm learning. No matter how much you think you know you can always learn more.

These bulbs seem to be the yellowest right after you turn them on, mine seem to appear more white after they've been on for a while. (or maybe it's my imagination... it does get the best of me sometimes.)


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Blackeyes said:


> There are many people here, are just being to venture into the hobby of the planted aquarium. Including me, having only been with the planted aquarium for 7 months. I just have a few easy growers: Wistera, Cryptcoryne Willisii "Lucens", another crypt that i forgot the name of, java fern, tropic sword


Awesome plants. I guess your right, if most people just venturing into it they must ave a good green thumb lol. 

Will plants grow quicker in higher light?

I've learned alot in the time I been on this site and the 2 years on another site. It amazes me that no matter how much you think you may know something there is always something extra or new to it!


----------



## Blackeyes (Jul 6, 2006)

James From Cali said:


> Awesome plants. I guess your right, if most people just venturing into it they must ave a good green thumb lol.
> 
> Will plants grow quicker in higher light?
> 
> I've learned alot in the time I been on this site and the 2 years on another site. It amazes me that no matter how much you think you may know something there is always something extra or new to it!


Yes, they will grow better in higher light with the exception of co2. I have a 20gal high tank which has a corallife fluorescent light fixture 28w. Though its low im still able to grow plants with the addition of co2.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Okay, should I splurge for a Hagen Pressurized CO2 instead of DIY? It cost like 33.99 and I want to start off on the right hand with CO2. If anyone has it, do you have to plug it in?


----------



## CherylH (Jan 2, 2007)

I think you mean the Hagen Natural Plant System. It isn't pressurized, and really is more like DIY. If you choose to get the system, you'll be better off making your own mix instead of using the refill packets (they're just yeast and baking soda, you add sugar and water). 

I use the ladders from the kits in all my tanks, but use gatorade jugs instead of the little grey cannister that comes in the kit. For a 10 gallon, the cannister is probably fine.

No, you don't plug it in.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

CherylH said:


> I think you mean the Hagen Natural Plant System. It isn't pressurized, and really is more like DIY. If you choose to get the system, you'll be better off making your own mix instead of using the refill packets (they're just yeast and baking soda, you add sugar and water).
> 
> I use the ladders from the kits in all my tanks, but use gatorade jugs instead of the little grey cannister that comes in the kit. For a 10 gallon, the cannister is probably fine.
> 
> No, you don't plug it in.



LOL, yeah there was another one they had for like 59.99 that said pressurized. I will be getting that after upgrading my lighting and I might try my own mixture if I dont like the results of the packets.


----------



## mrbelvedere (Nov 15, 2005)

If you do decide to buy a commercial yeast reactor, at least buy the Red Sea one. It has a venturi diffuser, and it's like $22 online.


----------



## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

I don't think you can get a pressurized system for 60$, the tank would cost more than that. Docters foster and smith have a regulator and solenoid for 90$, that system your talking about is probally some kkind of diy, or a part of the pressurized system.

Of course MOST plants will grow quicker under higher light. Some plants need a minimum amount of light to survive. Like i tried dwarf hairgrass in my 10 gal. with 15 watt normal output, it melted away.

I agree with the whole trial and error deal, but learning from other peoples mistakes is alot easier, and cheaper.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

dufus said:


> I don't think you can get a pressurized system for 60$, the tank would cost more than that. Docters foster and smith have a regulator and solenoid for 90$, that system your talking about is probally some kkind of diy, or a part of the pressurized system.
> 
> Of course MOST plants will grow quicker under higher light. Some plants need a minimum amount of light to survive. Like i tried dwarf hairgrass in my 10 gal. with 15 watt normal output, it melted away.
> 
> I agree with the whole trial and error deal, but learning from other peoples mistakes is alot easier, and cheaper.



I am more hands on with my T&E. I think it was a part I just seen the word Pressurized. The thing I am worried about is the Petite nana, would it do well in higher light? I dont want to have a perfectly good plant ruined.



> Nope. If this is your 10G, I have the same with 2 20W CF screwins, and the effective lighting is the equivalent of about 1.5W/G. Yours will be just over 1.2W/G. This is all due to restrike, about half your light is lost. You do not need CO2 unless you go to 2 25W bulbs. I have a 10G with 2 20W bulbs, and no CO2. I have another 10G with 2 25W bulbs, and it needs CO2, as the algae has been a problem for me. And ZERO algae in the one with no CO2 and 20W bulbs.


This confused me. Can someone clarify this and tell me if it is true or not. I'd rather get my info on this thread than start many others! I will be posting pics sometime this week of my new plants.


----------



## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

Uh, with 2 20 watt spiral compacts, you would have 40 watts-4watts per gallon right?
Wrong!kinda. the light that is reflected from the(needed)reflectors is significantly reduced, as alot of it goes back into the bulb, which also reduces efficiancy and causes heat.

So if you installed good reflectors in the hood, you may get by with about 2 wpg, maybe more, maybe less. with spiral bulbs, there is alot of surface area, so alot of light is lost back into the bulb.

Anubias aren't high light plants, but mine are doing fine in 260 watts in a 55.
they grow more algea this way, but it's easy to rubb off, and ottos and farlowellas love it.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Okay thanks. Just needed the second opinion. So its just reduced by half. Thats simple.


----------



## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

Well, i don't know about half, i was going with what he said, but with a reflector, you should get more than 1.2wpg.
i would say at least 2wpg, if not more, but i'm no expert.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Okay thanks. Yeah she was telling me that it would be almost half but gave me 1.2wpg!


----------



## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

Hmmm....sounds like she needs another math course?


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Yeah. Well I got home about 20 min ago and found 3 of my Danios dead and the other 3 barely alive. Tomorrow I am returning the 3 that I am able to return for either a platy or some white clouds. I only could get 3 so what would you guys do?

They had died. Me and the lady at Petsmart was looking closely and we seen they had ich. The temp was up in the tank and everything. I drain the tank and clean the gravel(Just enough yo NOT do much damage to the cycle). Rinsed the rocks and the plants. The platys I just got are from my neighbors top breed. He will hold them til tomorrow due to the reason of my ich. I will acclimate them slow enough to get them use to the water params. I am going to get my water tested as soon as my mom gets back. I need a ride and her fren has a car.


----------



## sayn3ver (Sep 1, 2006)

those danios are supposed to be some of the hardiest fish out there.

With the little to no plant mass, you should have fishless cycled the tank first.

Fishless Cycle


Second, for a low light setup, a standard 15w single florescent strip is good enough at least for me to grow crypts,moss,vals, sunset hygro, dwarf sag and many other lower light plants. I had 2 x 25watt coralife colormax compact florescent screw in bulbs and with no co2 and i broke out with BGA and some other algae.


----------



## blueguppygirl (Oct 30, 2006)

sayn3ver said:


> those danios are supposed to be some of the hardiest fish out there.
> 
> With the little to no plant mass, you should have fishless cycled the tank first.
> 
> Fishless Cycle


I fully agree, I was going to tell you this earlier but thought I was too late because you already had fish in the tank. Sorry to hear about your loss. If you can you should return the rest of the fish and start over with a fishless cycle.....or a lot more plants. It is a better idea to get a test kit than the lights. Keep us updated.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Well I should be getting more plants today or tomorrow. I might just get my money back and wait til the first to add any fish. IDK if my snails will finish the cycle for me or not.


----------



## trfjason (Aug 10, 2006)

Maybe you should consider a hospital tank. You should get Seachem Prime or Hagen Cycle to build up your bio filter.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

I borrowed some from my neighbor(the one with the platys). I plan on getting a 5g Hospital tank. But I need to buy a test kit first!


----------



## actioncia (Jun 9, 2005)

James From Cali

Your tank has come a long way. don't compare yourself to some of these tanks that look absolutely stunning. Everybody has his/her do's and don't its a learning process. What kind of test kits are you looking for? Regards, jC.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Aqaurium Pharmacuticals(spl) Master test kit. Then maybe some test strips for the Hardness and alkalinity! Well I compare to see what I can work on. I hope that my tank can go to look like those. Maybe better, hehe. J/K!


----------



## yoink (Apr 21, 2005)

I forgot to send you the ferts I told you I would send, sorry about that. But I just trimmed some nice fast growers that I can send along as well. I'll get it all out in the mail tomorrow.


----------



## sayn3ver (Sep 1, 2006)

trfjason said:


> Maybe you should consider a hospital tank. You should get Seachem Prime or Hagen Cycle to build up your bio filter.


Prime as a dechlorinator i can recommend. Good stuff.:thumbsup: 
I myself use prime with a plastic syringe, in order to maximize the bottle(so i don't waste any). 1ml per 10g i believe is the correct dosage or 1 capful(quote unquote 5ml) per 50g.

Cycle is usless though. You are better off and should be getting some filter squeezings or some mulm from an established tank(i asked my LFS for some gravel when i first started my 10g from one of their tanks and they gave me some for free). The only product that really will cycle your tank is Biospiral(sp?) and that is only from what i have heard, never used it myself though.

I am actually fishless cycling a 20g as we speak. That article i linked is excellent and is what i was referred to when i was starting out. I did it successfully and have been preaching it ever since. Also, if you do choose to fishless cycle, i cannot stress the importance of buying clear ammonia(store brand usually) that is soap free. I am using pathmark brand myself.

With aquarium keeping, its better to go slowly. The tank wont go bad if you don't get it up and fully stocked right away. You can fishless cycle then keep the bacteria colony up and running indefinetly by adding a few drops of ammonia daily.

Ofcourse, all of this can be disreguarded if you will be jamming the tank full of plants to start(which is recommended).


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Well I am getting a clump of Java Moss and some Petite nana. Also Cryptocoryne wendtii! Those are the plants Im choosing. Unfortunately my lfs dont do the handout of baceria.


----------



## yoink (Apr 21, 2005)

I can send you some good dirty filter floss if you think it will last the trip.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

How long does bacteria last without suppliment? I dont want to let you send me it and its no good lol.



yoink said:


> I forgot to send you the ferts I told you I would send, sorry about that. But I just trimmed some nice fast growers that I can send along as well. I'll get it all out in the mail tomorrow.


What kind of fast growers? Is there directions on how much ferts to put in?


----------



## DC.UNC (Dec 7, 2006)

James, 
I currently work at petsmart, and i always make sure that whatever i buy i check the prices online at petsmart.com first. Regarding your test kit, they are on sale for 24.99 as of now, but go online and you can print off the page that shows how much an API master test kit is, and petsmart will match it for you. The new price is then 13.49. Good tactic that will save you money in the long run.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Okay thanks. I will do that!


----------



## fshfanatic (Apr 20, 2006)

Get some Soilmaster Select. 50lbs is less than $20 and it rivals Flourite.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

I'll look for that. I want to find a good substrate for my tak. Gravel is alright but I want results lol.

I have an update. Last night was a PITA. I had to drain my tank enough to where getting the gravel out was safe. I got the equipment out and switched my tanks. I had to carry the new 10g downstairs, the old one up. My neighbor has switched me because he is feeling sorry for his platys. They are in a 5g Q tank. So tonight I will post pics if the platys and the tank. I need to reaquascape lol.


----------



## sayn3ver (Sep 1, 2006)

wait, what did you do?


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

He gave me a clean 10g. I just switched my items over to the new one. I had ich apparently. He was going to give platies Yesterday but he couldntdue to ich and I needed to make sure it is gone. So he gave me a 10g because he doesnt want to see the platies in a 5g. Its confusing. He has no more room for tanks. He has like 16 tanks. So now I have 2 10g's and I will set one up as Q!

I just got my new plants(NeonShrimp thanks). What do I do with alot of Java Moss. I have so much to put(wich I can find a place) but dont know where to put it. Its behind the 2 java ferns as we speak. Any suggestions? I will post pics as soon as I can.

Oh just realized that I have no room for the 2 10's


----------



## Clone (Feb 29, 2004)

You could make a moss wall or tie the moss it different size rocks for a foreground with depth.


----------



## mrbelvedere (Nov 15, 2005)

James From Cali said:


> I'll look for that. I want to find a good substrate for my tak. Gravel is alright but I want results lol.


With 15 watts it really doesn't matter what substrate you have as long as it is of proper size.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Ok. Im happy. I seperated the moss into 4 different pieces and attached it to the rocks. Each rock has a fern(accept one wich has the anubias.).


----------



## sayn3ver (Sep 1, 2006)

Gotcha.

anyways, finding room for 2 10g's should be a snap. 

Second, you have learned an early lesson. Always Qt your fish, plants, rocks, wood, etc etc etc.
Third, for your setup and situation, you might want to have a go at a non-co2 tank.
Non-Co2

I dunno if you need to be signed up to see that link. if you do, sign up(its free). There is alot of good reading on that forum, although you need to pay to post i think.


----------



## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

James From Cali said:


> Oh just realized that I have no room for the 2 10's


Are you kidding? Find a 2ft x 2ft. area and stick both in it!


----------



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

mrbelvedere said:


> With 15 watts it really doesn't matter what substrate you have as long as it is of proper size.


Yep. Heck, I had 13-14mm gravel with 15 watts and the low-light plants still did OK.

Your lighting is probably your first concern...then CO2, then fertilizers, then substrate. It just never ends! =)


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

*Extreme Makeover(Tank Edition)*

Yeah well here is my priority list:

Test Kit
5g Q tank
Lighting upgrade
CO2
Ferts
Filtration. 

I just got my Crypts today and they are great. I will post pics ASAP.



dufus said:


> Are you kidding? Find a 2ft x 2ft. area and stick both in it!


The only space I have is under my 10g and it dont fit. But I am going to get a 5g to replace it. I will use the 5 as a Q.

Wilder thanks for the Crypts and thanks for the other plants NeonShrimp!

*1/6/07*

As you witnessed in the past 2 weeks I have kept track of my progress. If you remember my tank looked like this:








My tank had no point then. Now my tank has life. It has a meaning to it. And here is the new and improved tank:








Here is the full tank. The clumps are Java Moss attached to Lava Rock. I am working on taking better pics and I believe I am getting closer :smile: 








I am also working on taking closeup shots. So here is the Petite nana attached to Lava Rock along with Java Moss.








Here is the Crypt on the right side of the tank.








And here it is on the left side. 

The plants for those who dont know are:
Wendtii Crypt(_*Cryptocoryne wendtii*_)
Petite nana(_*Anubias barteri var. nana 'Petite'*_)
Java Fern(*Microsorum pteropus*)
Java Moss(*Vesicularia dubyana*)
Morimo Ball(*Cladophora aegagrophila*)
Narrow Leaf Sag(Dwarf Sag)(*Sagittaria subulata*)

I have a 15 watt flourescent strip light. No CO2. No ferts. Ordinary black gravel. TopFin 10 powerfilter.


----------



## Storm_Rider (Sep 30, 2006)

could you take a full tank shot from farther back a bit? for a planted tank, it's kind of dark and gloomy. probably just the lighting and camera quality huh? it's definately progressed though from the empty tank with a pot in it. keep up the work

maybe move the plants farther back for now? any idea when you're gonna get some driftwood or a big rock?


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Storm_Rider said:


> could you take a full tank shot from farther back a bit? for a planted tank, it's kind of dark and gloomy. probably just the lighting and camera quality huh? it's definately progressed though from the empty tank with a pot in it. keep up the work
> 
> maybe move the plants farther back for now? any idea when you're gonna get some driftwood or a big rock?


I will later tonight. My pics come out better in the dark. The darkness is probably from my camera quality. It kinda sucks lol. 

I just rearranged it a bit more nicer. I moved the Moss/Fern/and Anubias up 2 the front of the tank. The more younger not fuller Crypts are in the front and the more broad full crypts in the back corner. There is a piece of wood I admire and think would look nice but the thing is it is dirty and it has dirt in the grooves and its kind rigid and rough. I want it but I dont want to harm my fish. I will post a pic right now.


----------



## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

just wash it with the hose, then either boil it, or let it soak for a few months in a bucket.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Okay Im sorry about not posting pics. I will very soon promise  I just got my water tested and the params are <Ammonia=.5> <Nitrite=0> <Nitrate=20> <pH=7.6> <Hardness=150> <Alkalinity=120>. I believe I am coming to an end on my cycle  Anyway it looks like some of my Crypts started melting but the ones that started to melt earlier are bouncing up. 
I am going to be buying a test kit next month for like $15 and also I am going to buy some Flourish Root Tabs!


----------



## mrbelvedere (Nov 15, 2005)

I keep saying that with 15 watts it really doesn't matter what your substrate is, as long as it is of suitable grain size. Fertilization needs to be done lightly, if at all. I highly doubt any root tabs are going to help you. They won't hurt, but it will be money wasted. Growth is going to be slow in that tank.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

mrbelvedere said:


> I keep saying that with 15 watts it really doesn't matter what your substrate is, as long as it is of suitable grain size. Fertilization needs to be done lightly, if at all. Growth is going to be slow in that tank.


Okay. I was just thinking the crypts would benefit from it!


----------



## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

It seems like the cycle is just beggining, amonnia spike is the first step ussually.
I think a tes kit would be the most important, then get some lights on that sucker!Then worry about substrate,co2,ferts,etc...


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Would there still be nitrates though? I had ammonia when I had nitrates and it was always after adding new fish/plants.


----------



## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

if the bio can't handle the fishload yet, yes there would be both. It looks like you added fish too soon and the biosystem collapsed, thus killing your fish, or inducing an ich boom.


----------



## blueguppygirl (Oct 30, 2006)

Here's a couple more links that might help you. 
click here
and here
I really suggest again that you try the fishless cycling before you get more fish. The fishless cycling shouldn't hurt any of your new plants. Good luck with you new tanks.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

I feel like stopping the fish-in cycle but my friend has no more room in his tanks for platy's. So what should I do. Petsmart wont take the fish! there is only fragranced ammonia around here so its unlikely to do that. And I cant seem to find Bio Spira around here.


----------



## sayn3ver (Sep 1, 2006)

ugh. Clear ammonia should be able to be found at any food store.

Second, since you already have fish in it, might as well do daily waterchanges until the tank cycles to keep everything in check.

basically, when you cycle this is what happens(atleats my understanding).

no bacteria.
Ammonia from fish poop or yourself is added and builds up.
Bacteria begin to form to consume the ammonia.
NitRITes form from the processing of ammonia.
Then, other bacteria form to process the nitrites into nitRATes.
From here, either waterchanges, lots of plants, nitrate chemical removers
will remove or reduce the nitrates.

so in a cycle you get ammonia spike, then nitrite spike, then nitrate spike.


----------



## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

Bio spira is great, but if you didn't know, it's risky and expensive. You could get a bad or old batch and it won't do anything, and swishing a used filter cartridge in the tank does the same thing, only in smaller amount.

Instead of ammonia, you could put something in to decompose(A cube of brine shrimp would work, or a dead fish.)
But ammonia would only add to your costs, and isn't necessary.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Well I think since I have fish in the tank keeping up on wc's are a must and so that is what I will and must do. I will be adding something to my 1g nano that will be used for fry to cycle my tank. I am going to start holding off on buying certain unnessacary items and get items that are important! I sound like a unknowledgable noob but I was told by many others on a different forum that fish in cycle is alright. So I think I will be getting second opinions! Thanks for putting up with me lol.

Oh but I cant forget pics now can I lol.








Here is the new rock. Its my hardscape. In front of the rock you can see my small Dwarf Sag and the Marimo Balls. Also 2 of the Platys are there lol.








The full tank. I will get a better one tonight. In the day its hard because it makes the tank looks dark. I will take some more pics tonight!


----------



## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

Well, fish in cycle is ok, but you can do it possibly faster and definately less risky/harmful without.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Yeah. I am definitely doing a fishless cycle on my 1g pico.


----------



## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

yea, if your gonna wait a long time, you could fill it up and put some food or something in there and feed the tank every week or so, that way when you're ready to add fish, the bacteria will be stablished.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Well I had got the plants/filter media/ ferts from Yoink today and finished rearranging them. I believe I got Sunset Hygro, Hydro Cotyle, and Moneywort! Pics soon!


----------



## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

Sunset hygro is one of my favorite dtem plants. It will grow under low lighting, but when you put 3+ watts per gallon on those and the pink pops like neon!
Yoink is a nice guy, he gave me a bunch of cherry shrimp for the price of shipping. It's people like him that make the forum and hobby so respectable.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Hes great. Thanks everyone that had sold/gave me plants! I truly appreciate it! I will try to get some pics of the tank today!


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Well here are the pics.









I took a pic from above. And the plants seems to do ok!









My Hydro Cotyle! 









The pile of plants lol j/k. 









The Narrow leaf Sag.









Closeup of Petite nana.

In the last 2 pics you can see the Sunset Hygro!


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

I edited the pics in paint. I made them a tad bit smaller and finished it up on photobucket. I think thats why they came out so much clearer.


----------



## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

What kind of camera are you using? a magnifying glass does wonders for focus problems.that is probally your problem, or lighting. plants look good.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

A magnifying glass?? Like one of those big ones?? How do you do that lol? Its an Argus Digital Camera. Its a really cheap camera.... Thanks about the plants. They are looking good in the tank. My platys are enjoying them!


----------



## Storm_Rider (Sep 30, 2006)

again i ask you for a full tank shot  but whatever you're doing differently with the camera, it's helping. what are you next plans?


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Im sorry I will get that done right now. I use pant to size the pic down and then on photbucket I also size it down and it seems to make the pics clearer.

I will get it tomorrow the pics dont come out right with the bulb lol.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Hey storm, just for ya 









Now I need a bit of help. How should I redo the scape for this tank. To me it just dont look right. Here is the layout.










I think it would be best for me to get the advice before redoing things.


----------



## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

Its too symetrical for one, and the crypts should probally be moved at least to midground.
If you put a magnifying glass in front of the camera, a few inches or less, and move it back and forth until the pic looks better, it helps the pic become focus'ed.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Okay, the mid-ground does look kinda bare. I been attempting the magnifying glass but I need to find one without a crack.


----------



## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

yep, that helps some


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Yup. Thanks I took some more pics and I will be seeing how they came out!


----------



## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

Glad to help, i was given the same tip when i had a cruddy camera. My pics were so bad that you couldn't even tell what they were, but apparently it was all focus problems, because the mag glass helped. Now i have a nikon l2 and needless to say it does not need a mag. glass!


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

I need to get a new camera. Its hard to take a pic of the tank while holding the mag. glass. But I am proud to say that I have found some more fry(like 2 more). I have a 5 fry all together. Im hoping they surviuve. Here is my plan for an almost natural tank:

1) Feed every other day.
2) Do not interfere with the fry life. Let them survive on their own.
*3) Arrange plants for a nice looking scenery but a natural shelter for fry.

*This is what I need help with. The pic posted of plant placement as of now can give you an idea of where my plants are. I am going to move the crypts more center tank instead of the front. And I found out the plants I got:

Rotala rotundifolia
moneywort
green hygro
sunset hygro
brazilian pennywort
Marimo Balls
Java Moss
Petite nana 
Wendtii Crypt

So yeah can someone help me lol.


----------



## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

i Was told creativity is the key to a nice aquascape. You may want more hieght in your hardscape than just that rock. Symetrey is bad, and taller plants=back, etc.


----------



## Storm_Rider (Sep 30, 2006)

dunno if it was addressed but have you chosen a general shape for your tank to take? i've grown to really like the triangular slant shape. here's a pic










but since you seem to gravitate towards symmetry, as i do too in all honesty, i think the concave shape is for you:










there's convex too but i think it's harder to pull off and you can't have as many plants but when it's done right, it can look really spectacular










anyways, if you haven't read aquascaping 101 principles yet, here's a link:
Aquascaping Principles

Imagination and creativity are the keys to a great tank though. and a lot of trial and error. a lot. like really, A LOT


----------



## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

thanks for that link,storm rider! really helps me too!


----------



## Jegoban (Oct 10, 2006)

*Aquascaper*

sometimes trying to lay out a tank is the best way to make it look bad .
when you are going to start a new tank the best thing to do is 


(1) establish the tank. its nice to fill it up and throw in some fish and stuff rightaway but if you do you will change it within the week :icon_cool when dealing with tanks patience is key and if you dont have it learn it. 
fishless cucle the tank it really is the easiest way

(2) research the fish you want learn about there lifestyles and if they bottomfeed mid level or top level fish. and its nice to have varied levels makes the tank look more alive.

(3)choose the type of fish (and makesure they are tankmate friendly)

(4) research the habitate of the selected fish. and buy things that they see in nature , try to make the tank look like it was cut out of a river or lake somewhere. (if yo uare going natural look) which i belive you are. i mean you dont have to get the exact rocks and such from the region they are from but understand what kind of water they live in.

(5) never make the tank look calculated its actualy boring and un original youll find most really nice tanks arnt even in anyway trianle is the easiest just put large plants down to smallest put in some rocks randomly and done.

keep inmind that sometims what looks good isnt always best for the tank. for example plecos which are super common in most tanks need good soild places to hide if they dont have them you will find some of your small fish dead or sick fast. and some fish arnt smart enough to keep away from sharp edges whish is a good way to invite disease and general damage to a tank

(6) put your plants and stuff in first digging around in the tank while fish are in it can stress them out and cause problems like your ICH issue , stress is the major cause the fish death cause it lower immune sustem and allowing them to become sick and sick fish will stress other fish and make them sick too. so always put your plants and stuff in first 

(7) dont over stock the tank at the start . try 2-3 fish at the start so the bio load on your tank isnt too much. the bugs i nthe tank need to get used to the fish and plants before you can put in more somtimes depending on the tank size and fish type 2 or 3 will be max anyway. if you put in alot of fish right off the bat your gonna have tank health issues. 

doont over feed the fish cause its tempting too, fish dontr know when there hungry or full so they will eat nonstop and become sick

(8) keep your hands out. diggin around i nthe tank once it has fish is stressful like i said and can change whater quality. so wash with soap thats non scented and ot overly strong but strong enough to disinfect your skin . like liquid hand soaps. once you have fish and plants ans such in there if you dig up the stones or soil ytou will release stuffi nthe sand and create clouds of debris which can mess with your fish. only time you dig in the tank is to vac the gravel and change water otherwise avoid it.

(9) enjoy your tank and goodluck i hope i covered some of the basics.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Wow lots of info since I been gone. I got home and my plants were uprooted. So now I think I will be taking the fish out and adding the plants and then the fish. Thanks you guys!


----------



## mr.sandman (Nov 7, 2006)

Jegoban said:


> so wash with soap thats non scented and ot overly strong but strong enough to disinfect your skin . like liquid hand soaps.


Just to add one more thing. Only wash your hands with soap after you are done putting your hands in your tank. Before putting your hands in do not use soap, just scrub your hands a little harder.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Okay. Well I did a 50% wc today since I wasnt here to do a normal one and so I rearranged the floaters back in the gravel. Here is what I got now:








Here are the plants depending on there placement:
Back
Brazilian Pennywort
Moneywort
Rotala rotundifolia
Sunset Hygro
Green Hygro

Middle
Wendtii Crypt

Foreground
Java Moss
Petite nana

I replaced the large stone with 3 smaller stones. It gives me more planting space. Also I found that I have 9 Platy Fry and I am hoping they know how to survive. They tend to swim in open water with no fear and the parents dont mind them! Sorry for the bad pic, I will definitely get a better pic soon!


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Apparently Moneywort is known as Water Hyssop(Bacopa monnieri). Just thought I'd change what I had put!


----------



## weaselnoze (Dec 22, 2006)

really you should invest in a mediocre point and shoot camera


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

I need to. I have such a bad camera and such an unsteady hand...I need to find someone who has a good steady hand! But I will see where has a good camera!


----------



## Storm_Rider (Sep 30, 2006)

get a tripod, it serves alot of use in the long run. you can just rest the camera on a chair or something near the tank if you really shake that much. or you can just snap like 4 pics, one is bound to be perfect


----------



## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

> or you can just snap like 4 pics


Or like 200?
Yea, a tripod does a lot of good though.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Storm_Rider said:


> get a tripod, it serves alot of use in the long run. you can just rest the camera on a chair or something near the tank if you really shake that much. or you can just snap like 4 pics, one is bound to be perfect


Just for one of those "good ones" it took about 4-7 pics lol. I am looking into a tripod and a new camera. I will be waiting til the plants grow in some more before I start taking pics again! But I will be posting updates(non pics) every week and pics every 2 weeks! So here is an update(not much though lol):

Plants:
Sunset Hygro(like 4 or 5 stems)
Water Hyssop(6 stems)
Green Hygro(3 stems)
Rotala Rotundifolia(1 stem)
Brazillian Pennywort(6 stem)
Wendtii Crypt(6 plants)
Java Moss(2 clumps)
Petite nana(1 branch)
Marimo Ball(3 clumps)

Fish:
Male Red Wag Platy
Female Red Wag Platy
Male Sunburst Platy
9 Platy Fry

Ferts:
Greg Watsons Dry Ferts[Potassium Nitrate, Pottasium Sulfate, Mono Potassium Phosphate(Dosing: Monday, Wednesday, Friday)]
Plant Gro Iron Enriched(Every 2 weeks)

Extra:
3 Medium River Stones

Well I update will update in a week or so!


----------



## weaselnoze (Dec 22, 2006)

i do photography as one of my hobbies and believe me, it takes at LEAST 4-7 shots to get a good one. thats the fun of it! shoot lots and hope u get a good one! really tho if you are shooting with no flash, you NEED a tripod to get a 'decent' pic. i would ditch the webcam or whatever u are using and spend some of that 'aquarium money' on a decent $80 point and shoot.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Well I am going to ditch the digital camera(cheapo lol) and buy a way better camera. It cant be february because I have to buy a test kit. And I like to call it the joy of saving 5 months allowance lol. Thats how long it would take to buy the $80 camera!


----------



## weaselnoze (Dec 22, 2006)

how old are you? im guessing 14-15..


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

16. I am in the process of finding a job!


----------



## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

HE's like me!
only i found out a long time ago that holidays are life savers!
i bought a 80$ camera and couldn't get any better pics than yours. then i got a camera phone that took good pics, then i got a nikon l2, and i will never look back. 

you need to find some primary income, as do I.
See if you can get a part time job and a ride there.
You could always sell platy fry!
I get my Drivers Licsense in march and can't wait!


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Yeah I want to sell the fry. I just dont know where...Capitol Aqaurium or maybe someone locally would want them. Once I find what I have(male and female ratio) and if the fry survive I will start selling. Hat to say it I will have to work at taco bell lol. I should try dollar tree....

For the holidays the most my fam will spend is about $30 a piece on me. This year was an exception. I got a cockatiel for $80.


----------



## Storm_Rider (Sep 30, 2006)

dollar tree is weak sauce. try getting a gofor job at a LFS.


----------



## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

Or even(shudders) petsmart.
They pretty much hire anyone.


----------



## DC.UNC (Dec 7, 2006)

Why does everyone rip on petsmart??? The job at petsmart has been the best place i have ever worked at... our specialty fish department puts most LFS knowledge to shame and its a lot of fun to work there... my advice, have experience working somewhere before you think you know everything about the place.


----------



## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

Because MOST of the employees don't know much. Once a girl walked in with a ghost shrimp asking for plants for him to eat. The guy working there said no, he didn't have any, but to try to give him lettuce. Now, after the guy left, i told her the ghost shrimp will eat most fish food, and algae wafers.

Petsmart's main goal is to make the sale. same with petco and most chains. Now, when you have a fellow fishead working at a chain, that particular store can become good, almost like a seperate lfs inside of the chain.

James- remember, if you get a job at taco bell, you have to leave SOME mild sauce for the costumers.(BTW: taco bell's mild sauce Is my favorite sauce ever!)


----------



## DC.UNC (Dec 7, 2006)

Well alright i guess i can agree with that. I have been into many petsmarts that dont know what they are talking about, and i have even seen girls who work in the fish department mixing guppies with cichlids because they like the color contrast. I guess our store is special, but petsmart is a good company to work for nevertheless, in my opinion


----------



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

James,

Sorry to say, but you won't get much for the platy fry. You can maybe raise the fry to adults and sell them on Craigslist for $1 each.

LFS, I've learned, get their guppies and platys for 20, 30 cents each. A fish distributor I plan to order from has full-grown "rare" platys for 89 cents each.

A good way to make some dough is to breed shrimp.


----------



## mr.sandman (Nov 7, 2006)

Or to breed angelfish they go like $1 to $1.50 each when it is the size of a dollar.


----------



## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

Yea, cherries are suppose to be easy to breed, and if you order them online you can get them reasonably cheap.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

epicfish said:


> James,
> 
> Sorry to say, but you won't get much for the platy fry. You can maybe raise the fry to adults and sell them on Craigslist for $1 each.
> 
> ...


The only Shrimp around here are Bamboo Shrimp and Ghost Shrimp. I can go to Capitol Aqaurium but they seem to want to sell like 10 Cherry Shrimp when you want only 4 lol.



mr.sandman said:


> Or to breed angelfish they go like $1 to $1.50 each when it is the size of a dollar.


I would if I had a big enough tank . I love Angels and they would be awesome to breed.



dufus said:


> Yea, cherries are suppose to be easy to breed, and if you order them online you can get them reasonably cheap.


Well how big of a tank would they need or would the babies survive in my 10g?


----------



## Blackeyes (Jul 6, 2006)

well, looks like I might sell my angelfish then. its about 1 yr old, really nice gold coloring. as for you James, if you have a seperate 5gal tank the fry can live in there for the time being. Just make sure you dont use a powerfilter otherwise they'll get sucked up into the intake.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Well I dont have a spare 5g at this time but I plan on it in the futeure so I have a fry tank!


----------



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Well, your platys would eat the shrimplets really quickly. If you want a breeding tank, I'd go for a shrimp-only tank.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Yeah. I will have to see what happens within the next year or so.


----------



## Thanks (Oct 9, 2004)

James From Cali said:


> Well I am going to ditch the digital camera(cheapo lol) and buy a way better camera. It cant be february because I have to buy a test kit. And I like to call it the joy of saving 5 months allowance lol. Thats how long it would take to buy the $80 camera!


Wow dude thats a crappy allowance. I'm 16 as well, but I work a lot over the summer and make a couple thousand. You live in Cali right? Try to become a caddy at a golf club. If you're good and friendly with the golfers they'll tip you like crazy. Also, don't count on the fry you (might) get generating any kind of money. You'll get next to nothing for them. 

If all you're gonna get the camera for is to take pictures of your tank, forget it. Spend the money on something useful.


----------



## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

You should start wiht 10+ cherries to breed them.
I agree with thanks though, you should get something besides a camera, after all, you can look at it in person, we just have to put up with th pics or ignore them, but with 80$ you could easily upgrade lighting.
How good are you at handy work?

Ahsupply's 36 watt kit Would give you higher lighting, or the 2X 13watt kitwould give you a little less lighting, but is only 17$+ bulbs.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Well the camera is going to be used for that and also for me to practice. I am an aspiring photographer and need alot of practice.lol

True. I see what you guys are saying. I am looking at that right now. The upgrading the light is what I will probably use the money for that!


----------



## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

man, you are like me. I love photography too.


----------



## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

James tanks really coming along! 

Some tips to other younger guys I'm 15:hihi:

Odd jobs own. Most of the time your neighbor's wont charge taxes if you cut their grass 

Sorry to say, but all the awesome moneymaking dreams kids have of raising guppies and platies and stuff, Won't make you crap. They get them for like 10c per... not much at all, if you're going to breed something worthwhile you will need some good space usually and have a lump of cash for an initial investment. For me getting my parents to let me get new tank setups is easy, explain how you will gain something from the tank financially! Also, if you're one of the best say "shrimp breeders" in the country or something and word spreads around? Maybe it will help out job or school wise sad as it sounds. I have a great LFS that said they will make room for me as soon as I want to work, So GET TO KNOW YOUR LFS MANAGERS!!!! I'll talk with one guy I know for an hour or two when I go in if he isn't busy and it's great having those connections 

If I was to reccomend someone my age a fish to breed It would probably be BN plecos or corry cats. They both don't need too too much space... 20L or more if you want to seperate baby fish (BN Especially) 

Another thing I'm thinking of doing is providing a tank maintenance service! You would get PAID to take care of fish tanks 

Other things is like growing plants like... HC and others:icon_mrgr 

I guess I'm just lucky. I don't really worry about money for my hobby B-day and X-mass got me some cash... (Rich relatives..... ) and then the moss and other stuff sales. I'll be setting up a invert/moss rack soon similar to Milalic's 

This spring if anyone my age who can't spend too much on plants needs moss Let me know (this spring not right now) as long as your pretty active I'll ship some stuff just for the cost of shipping:icon_cool 

So keep up the good work guys! 

-Andrew


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

I didnt know people would pay others to clean tanks....something to look for. Around here is all apartments minus a few houses. I am on the vurge tomorrow to find a job! 

I talked to my mom and she said if I can clean the laundry room 2 times a week at night then she will pay me $4 a week(so thats like $16 a month along with a $10 allowance is $26). I save my money up for a couple of months then I can upgrade to better items.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Oh forgot to add my weekly water parameters.

Alkalinity: 6.72*(120 ppm)
Hardness: 4.2*(75 ppm)
Ammonia: .25 ppm
Nitrite: 3 ppm
Nitrate: 20 ppm

I am going through a mini cycle, I know. I dont know why but I am. I havent added new plants or new fish so I dont know.


----------



## sayn3ver (Sep 1, 2006)

at 15 i was working as an assitant janitor in the school system during the summer, 4 hours a day...saved up to buy my first computer that summer.:icon_mrgr 

My brother at age 14? had 5 or so regular customers/neighbors who he cut grass for, raked leaves, mulched leaves, etc etc for. 

I know you live in cali, but snow shoveling was another big one here on the east coast, can easily clear enough money in one storm to purchase an eheim classic/rena xp filter, more if you really bust your butt, but i always charge conservatively and felt bad taking large sums from neighbors.

Jobs can be had. A bit a little more difficult when younger, but i have had a job since the 7th/8th grade. My longest job was working 4 summers at a marina, doing dock handling, fueling, moving boats around with fork lifts, trash, washing stuff, waxing stuff, watering flowers. etc etc. The best worst experience of my life so far. So many good stories but sounded good on paper but sucked when i was there. haha.

Seriously, get out there. 

And like was said, if you plan on breeding anything, make sure its rare or has a good price tag. I imagine supplying a LFS with cherry shrimp or CRS would be a better option then sa guppies, endlers, mollies, convict ciclids, etc.:thumbsup:


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Yeah for the time until I find an actual job, my mom is paying me to check the apartment laundry room twice a week and she is going to give me $4 a week and at the end of the month I will have $26.


----------



## sayn3ver (Sep 1, 2006)

its a place to start. BTW, i am only 20 years old, so I can understand being short on cash.:bounce: Its called college life.:thumbsup:


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Yeah. I call it *"Hes a Teen so what can he do"*! Its hard but it is something you have to work through.


----------



## Storm_Rider (Sep 30, 2006)

how about we get back to the tank and not about being moneyless... making me sad dam it, i got no cash either.

BUT I HAVE CREDIT muahAhahaa... friggin interest....


----------



## sayn3ver (Sep 1, 2006)

tank is looking good for its age.

I say it needs a bit more green-age in it though.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Lol. I agree with Storm. Its bad enough we are broke, lets not speak of it lol.

Well I want to post a pic of my tank before any new growth ! Here is the pic:










I am attempting the triangle/slant planting arrangement. In order from slant:


Brazillian Pennywort
Water Hyssop
Green Hygro
Rotala Rotundifolia

In front of the background plants are *Wendtii Crypts*. The foreground is *Java Moss* and *Petite Nana*. I will be updating every 2 weeks with pics. Okay here are the water parameters:


ammonia- .25 ppm
nitrite- 3 ppm
nitrate- 20 ppm
pH- 7.2
alkalinity- 180 ppm(10*)
hardness- 75 ppm(4.2*)

I am going through a mini-cycle. Here is the fish I have:


12 Platy(3 adults, 9 week old fry)

Thanks for looking!


----------



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

sayn3ver said:


> its a place to start. BTW, i am only 20 years old, so I can understand being short on cash.:bounce: Its called college life.:thumbsup:


Heh. Short on cash. By June 2008, I'll owe ~$275,000. Something around there. Too lazy to pull open my records. =P


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

LOL. I couldnt imagine owing that much lol. But we should get back to the tank. Its hard to back on topic huh lol?


----------



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

I'd try some R. rotundifolia. L. repens might be a tad too large for your tank.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

I have a stem of Rotala rotundifolia and I might propogate and sell. Also when my Sunset Hygro starts to grow I can propogate it and sell! They seem to be very interesting plants due to their color.


----------



## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

Rotala rotundifolia is a nice plant,and is a pretty easy grower too.

Sunset hygro is illegal to ship, not to say we don't ship them anyway. Sunset hygro is definatly my favorite plant so far. Check out mine under 260watts on a 55 gallon-


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

dufus said:


> Rotala rotundifolia is a nice plant,and is a pretty easy grower too.
> 
> Sunset hygro is illegal to ship, not to say we don't ship them anyway. Sunset hygro is definatly my favorite plant so far. Check out mine under 260watts on a 55 gallon-


Why is it illegal to ship. I heard that with lowloght both the Hygro and Rotala Rotundifolia will be a green color. Do they have any red/pink in them at all under low light?


----------



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Because it's a noxious weed.

Yes, they will be green under low lighting. I believe you can drop nitrates (?) for a short while to get them really red.

You can make maybe $5 after shipping with 10-15 stems of 8" R. rotundifolia. I found that really hard to do in a 10 gallon tank. I had two 10 gallons and just didn't have the space to make lots of money by selling plants.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Ah thats why there illegal lol. I been dosing Potassium Nitrate, Pottasium Sulfate, and Mono Pottasium Phosphate. Should they come out a lighter shade of pink/red? 

Here are some better pics. Im sorry for me being in the shot lol:


----------



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

With two spiral CF bulbs, you're not going to get any intense red hues while the plants are still that short. Maybe at the tips, but not where they're at.

I have 72 watts of PC over my 10 gallon and mine are starting to turn pink a bit.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Well I figured at this point where they are at, But in the future. One of the reason I am attracted to them is the fact that there is a seperate color besides green!


----------



## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

yea, mine in my 10 is all green, except for a tip that is like 1"from the surface, it is light red.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Well I am going to be setting CO2 up Very soon I hope!


----------



## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

James From Cali said:


> Yeah. I call it *"Hes a Teen so what can he do"*! Its hard but it is something you have to work through.


Just do what I do, Prove em all wrong :bounce: .

Oh, and don't try making fish food, it smells HORRIBLE!!!!!!



James From Cali said:


> Well I am going to be setting CO2 up Very soon I hope!


Awsome! That's one thing I don't have at the moment:icon_neut 

-Andrew


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Yeah I just got the yeast today and DC is sending the check valve this weekend. So it should be up and running within the next 2 weeks and I hope that it comes out right!


----------



## sandiegoryu (Feb 15, 2006)

WOW this thread is humongous...

Hurray young people!! I'm also getting my Co2 pressurized setup coming in the mail. All I need is the paintball cylinder and I'm set!

We should start a student club. Somehow somewhere. YAA. Young Aspiring Aquascapers. Ok now I'm dreaming.

This thread has got to be the most fast growing thread in TPT. It's not even a month old, and you've got 13 pages... I wish my threads would kick up discussions like that. Time to start reading.


----------



## Thanks (Oct 9, 2004)

James From Cali said:


> Yeah. I call it *"Hes a Teen so what can he do"*! Its hard but it is something you have to work through.


If you act mature and talk sophisticatedly its really not that hard to get any kind of job. If you're as short on cash as you claim to be, don't waste your money on this tank. I'm not trying to be negative, but there's a great chance you either get a bigger tank or get bored and ditch it entirely.


----------



## fish_lover0591 (Nov 11, 2006)

uh i'm in the same situation as you James and guess what i have the same name as you lol  I just save up my allowance to get the things i need and want. Thanks might be a little right about you getting bored with a little tank but starting small helps you learn quicker atleast thats what i think. I'm suprised that this journal is up to page 13 lol . not to be rude but your allowance kinda sucks for your age but its still something you can work with(i'm 15 Btw) Well keep us updated on your progress


----------



## sandiegoryu (Feb 15, 2006)

Yah why don't you get a job? I'm planning to get a summer job at SeaWorld with my friend who has connections. Otherwise I would work alone at petsmart. And with all that money, you could finally get yourself a decent digital camera!

Good luck in your aquarium and I hope you stay in the hobby, and me, you, and Andrew will rule this place someday. Tom Barr status baby. HAHAHAHAHA


----------



## sandiegoryu (Feb 15, 2006)

and you too secondary Andrew.

And I dont get allowance at all. But lots of money from grandparents and others from birthday's, christmas, new years, graduation etc. Thats is my only source of money.


----------



## Ds11375 (Jan 28, 2006)

*My Two Cents*

I think your loosing focus, your spreading yourself and your resources to thin. If what you want is a Great Planted tank then that's what you need to concentrate on. Don't worry about buying a new cam just to show us what your tank looks like. Spend that money on making your tank the best it can be. 

Just my Two Cents.

Dan


----------



## Thanks (Oct 9, 2004)

I'm telling you guys, be a caddy.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Ds11375 said:


> I think your loosing focus, your spreading yourself and your resources to thin. If what you want is a Great Planted tank then that's what you need to concentrate on. Don't worry about buying a new cam just to show us what your tank looks like. Spend that money on making your tank the best it can be.
> 
> Just my Two Cents.
> 
> Dan


Yeah. Thats a great point and that is what Im going to do. It is a helpful tool to have if I have a problem, that way I can show you guys.

I been trying to find a caddy position but cant find one. I looked in the paper as well.


----------



## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

More job talk!
shut up and get back to the tank! j/k
But seriously, how's it goin? any algae outbreaks or growth?



> Good luck in your aquarium and I hope you stay in the hobby, and me, you, and Andrew will rule this place someday. Tom Barr status baby. HAHAHAHAHA


I wanna be part of the ruling!


----------



## sandiegoryu (Feb 15, 2006)

yah sorry for kind of trailing off on the subject. I have a 10 gallon as well. Was my first tank. I made a list of young people on this forum on my signature. I will as more as soon as I can find you people :-D.

Ok I'm trailing off. I wish you luck on your tank James, and your job if you get one.

Demand more pics! This tank is a very fast changing tank IMO.


----------



## Storm_Rider (Sep 30, 2006)

he didn't post it here but in the algae thread i think: he has some kind of GRAY string algae on his moss i believe. no pictures though probably because of his camera.

factoid: James is the #1 most common name in the USA.


----------



## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

Sweet idea with the Y.A.A sandiegoryu.
I have some nasty cyano in my 10 right now and it looks grayish and stringy on my java moss. pray to whoever it is you pray to that this isn't what you have, it's a plague from hell! i am doing a blackout now.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

sandiegoryu said:


> yah sorry for kind of trailing off on the subject. I have a 10 gallon as well. Was my first tank. I made a list of young people on this forum on my signature. I will as more as soon as I can find you people :-D.
> 
> Ok I'm trailing off. I wish you luck on your tank James, and your job if you get one.
> 
> Demand more pics! This tank is a very fast changing tank IMO.


Thats a good idea with the Y.A.A. It may be a step up for the shy young aqauriast. Pics will come when I see some changes in plant growth and or if I change/add something. And thanks!



Storm Rider said:


> he didn't post it here but in the algae thread i think: he has some kind of GRAY string algae on his moss i believe. no pictures though probably because of his camera.
> 
> factoid: James is the #1 most common name in the USA.


Yeah I had forgot to mention that I had "thread algae". Maha had tols me that it was thread algae. But I had cleaned it out of my moss and filter and havent seen any yet. I been leaving the lights off the tank.



dufus said:


> Sweet idea with the Y.A.A sandiegoryu.
> I have some nasty cyano in my 10 right now and it looks grayish and stringy on my java moss. pray to whoever it is you pray to that this isn't what you have, it's a plague from hell! i am doing a blackout now.


I havent looked up cyano! I might need to do that to make sure. 

Im kinda worried that my plants wont grow. I had them for about a week, 2 weeks now and they had not shown any growth. Is there like something I dont know going on in my tank. I am getting my water tested today so I will post later.


----------



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

They're not growing fast probably because you're not injecting CO2. =P


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Hmm, do they need CO2? Is it a major ingredient in their growth?


----------



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Nutrients (NPK + micros), Co2, light.

Have a good balance of these three and your plants will grow nice and lush.

Your lighting is pretty low right now so your nutrient and CO2 requirements are also pretty low. You might not be dosing, but your fish waste is certainly lending itself to the nutrient component. So the main thing you're lacking is CO2.


----------



## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

Yea, you don't really need co2 with that lighting, or ferts, but they can help.
The co2 and waste a few fish will produce can sustain a pretty heavily planted tank under NO lighting(normal output)
IMO, your plants are all slow growers under these conditions.
The fern and moss should be the fastest, along with rotala.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

dufus said:


> Yea, you don't really need co2 with that lighting, or ferts, but they can help.
> The co2 and waste a few fish will produce can sustain a pretty heavily planted tank under NO lighting(normal output)
> IMO, your plants are all slow growers under these conditions.
> The fern and moss should be the fastest, along with rotala.


The moss seems to be growing nicely. I am surprised about the fast output of the Java Moss :bounce:


----------



## wood (Nov 15, 2006)

epicfish said:


> With two spiral CF bulbs, you're not going to get any intense red hues while the plants are still that short. Maybe at the tips, but not where they're at.
> 
> I have 72 watts of PC over my 10 gallon and mine are starting to turn pink a bit.


I have to disagree. Stop dosing KNO3 and dose more KH2PO4 and the red will really come out. I don't dose any nitrate in my 10, which has 40W screw in 6500k. The shrimp and otto poop are sufficient IMO. More nitrates=less red. Also dose IRON if you really want the red to come out.


-Ryan


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

wood said:


> I have to disagree. Stop dosing KNO3 and dose more KH2PO4 and the red will really come out. I don't dose any nitrate in my 10, which has 40W screw in 6500k. The shrimp and otto poop are sufficient IMO. More nitrates=less red. Also dose IRON if you really want the red to come out.
> 
> 
> -Ryan


What is KH2PO4? Is that Phosphate? Im not too good with knowing the scientific version of ferts lol. Would Plant Gro enriched with Iron be sufficient for dosing Iron?


----------



## sandiegoryu (Feb 15, 2006)

yes that is phophate, in a different "state" that is easier to consume, or that is what i have read... somewhere. I think the plant gro will be fine, unless you start seeing iron defficiencies, which I do no know what they are.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

I had hooked up my CO2 with a Check Valve I had got from my mom(she bought me it just like 20 min ago). I got questions(always questions hehe):

Does the yeast float or not? My yeast seems to float and it is kinda ackward.

What are the signs of the CO2 working?

Is around 19 ppm CO2 good enough for my tank?


----------



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Close the lid over it and give it a good shake.

1) The yeast I use tends to settle to the bottom over time.
2) You'll see bubbles.
3) How are you checking the 19ppm? Are you sure it's 19ppm? Recommended amount in this hobby is ~30ppm. But any amount is good. You really can't "aim" for higher levels with DIY CO2 short of adding more bottles.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Well I was reading a sticky that gave a link. And I put in my current pH(7.2) and my KH(180) and it said about 19 ppm of CO2 is appropriate with a tank with these conditions. I havent checked it yet(IDK how lol). I see alot of the yeast dropping to the bottom. Could it possibly be its just not settled in? 

I see bubbles. I hope that the CO2 working. Its in the bottle on the water line.


----------



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

It'll take a few hours before you start to see bubbles...just sit and wait.

How did you test your kH? Did you use RODI/DI water and then add baking soda to calibrate it first...etc? The test kits might not be right.

The best way would be to get a drop checker (yes, more money) to have a constant indication of your CO2 levels.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Well the lady at petsmart had tested my KH. She had said that it was 180 ppm. A Drop Checker does what and how much do they cost?


----------



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Do a search in the DIY thread. It's a buffered solution that changes color according to the pH of the tank water.

You can DIY a drop checker for a few bucks. Maybe Hoppy has a few left over? Less than $10 if it's a DIY. $$$$ if you go for ADA, ~$25 if you go for an ADA-knockoff.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Okay thanks! I sure will search for that. I just want things to go right!

Well I am going to a place that hoppy had mentioned. Its a new LFS close to my house and he said they have CO2 indicators so I am going to go check it out tuesday. My CO2 has a bubble foam type stuff at the water line of the bottle so Im excited.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

*Mini Cycle Wont End*

Okay well I just got back from Petsmart and my results came up:

Ammonia: 0-.25 ppm
Nitrite: 5 ppm
Nitrate: 20 ppm
Hardness:8.4*(150 ppm)
Alkalinity:10.08*(180 ppm)
pH:7.2

I have been keeping up on my water changes. 30% every week with a filter cleaning every month. I have not dosed any ferts yet. Will be dosing Potassium Sulfate and Mono Potassium Phosphate tomorrow and friday. *NO POTASSIUM NITRATE!!!* I am going to let the Nitrates get eaten up before dosing again.


----------



## Storm_Rider (Sep 30, 2006)

are you paying for these water tests? still haven't gotten your own kit? try giving them a calibration solution and see if their tests are even accurate hah.


----------



## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

My Kh and GH and FE test kits(red sea) don't even work. i tried the iron test then added iron ferts to the tube and nothing.

the gh i tried w/distiled water and nothing.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Storm Rider said:


> are you paying for these water tests? still haven't gotten your own kit? try giving them a calibration solution and see if their tests are even accurate hah.


No Im not paying for these tests. And I am getting my kit on the first or second. A what solution? lol. I dont trust test strips entirely but when you dont have a kit then you have to believe something. I hate having a budget. 



dufus said:


> My Kh and GH and FE test kits(red sea) don't even work. i tried the iron test then added iron ferts to the tube and nothing.
> 
> the gh i tried w/distiled water and nothing.


Maybe they were no good. I had an ammonia test kit(drops) that when you added the stuff it didnt change color. I am guessing it was no good.

I forgot to ask. I know one of my major things to get at the time is a test kit. But what other stuff should I plan on getting besides higher lighting? Here is the list of stuff I have:

Cleaning Equipment:
Algae Scrubber-Glass
2 sizes of tube cleaners
Gravel Vac
Ice Cream Container

Fish/Plant storage(In case of move)
2 plastic bags(kind from petsmart) labeled fish/aquatic plants

Filtration
Top Fin 10 HOB 

Substrate
Black Gravel

Anything else I need or what should I change?


----------



## weaselnoze (Dec 22, 2006)

you dont have a filter now?


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

I do. The list I had provided is the list of what I currently have. I would like to know what can I add/change to my list so I can have the appropriate equipment instead of what petsmart and other stores try to sell you.


----------



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Uh...you don't have a filter? Forget the Top Fin. Be a man! Get an AquaClear! lol.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

epicfish said:


> Uh...you don't have a filter? Forget the Top Fin. Be a man! Get an AquaClear! lol.


LOL, I am thinking about it. I hear people say that AC is not that good. Hmm, I guess I should try it.


----------



## DC.UNC (Dec 7, 2006)

Yeah anything but a top fin. The penguin bio wheel filters work a lot better in my opinion, have better circulation, and make the water clearer faster. Top fin is the cheap way out. Aquaclear or marineland or the whisper ones... if your going for a HOB filter


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

DC.UNC said:


> Yeah anything but a top fin. The penguin bio wheel filters work a lot better in my opinion, have better circulation, and make the water clearer faster. Top fin is the cheap way out. Aquaclear or marineland or the whisper ones... if your going for a HOB filter



I had this since I got the starter kit and Im getting annoyed with it. I really dont want to get a HOB filter but will if it is nessecary. I been seeing alot of Canisters but I have been thinking it might be too much for my tank.


----------



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

James From Cali said:


> I hear people say that AC is not that good.


Who do you hear that from? AquaClears are one of the best HOB IMO.


----------



## Storm_Rider (Sep 30, 2006)

of course aquaclears are good, doesn't hagen make them?! well, i support hagen because the fluval canisters i have work extremely well and haven't given me any problems. although, i do have a penquin 330 on my goldfish tank and it works really well.


----------



## sayn3ver (Sep 1, 2006)

i think the aquaclears are the best HOB simply beause they dont use cartriges. Not to mention they last forever and are easy to service. The one i have has been running for 6 years or more. And additionally, all of them up until the ac110 only use 6w of power, which is nice. Given, there are downsides to them being a HOB, but still.


----------



## CardBoardBoxProcessor (Sep 17, 2006)

wait.. do you completley change out the stuff in the filter every month? I know people that do that and thus they get a recycle ever month..


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

epicfish said:


> Who do you hear that from? AquaClears are one of the best HOB IMO.


I hear this from "so called aqauriast". I was thinking it would be better, maybe they are just looneys lol.



Storm Rider said:


> of course aquaclears are good, doesn't hagen make them?! well, i support hagen because the fluval canisters i have work extremely well and haven't given me any problems. although, i do have a penquin 330 on my goldfish tank and it works really well.


LOL, I think hagen does make them, not for sure though. 



sayn3ver said:


> i think the aquaclears are the best HOB simply beause they dont use cartriges. Not to mention they last forever and are easy to service. The one i have has been running for 6 years or more. And additionally, all of them up until the ac110 only use 6w of power, which is nice. Given, there are downsides to them being a HOB, but still.


Wow no cartridges...I def thinking about getting one. And the last forever thing is a definite plus hehe.



CardBoardBoxProcessor said:


> wait.. do you completley change out the stuff in the filter every month? I know people that do that and thus they get a recycle ever month..


I clean the junk that is near the spinny thing(dunno what its called). The media only gets changed out if it seriously bad looking. I do leave it in so thee bacteria gets onto the new media.


----------



## blueguppygirl (Oct 30, 2006)

CardBoardBoxProcessor said:


> wait.. do you completley change out the stuff in the filter every month? I know people that do that and thus they get a recycle ever month..


I have an HOB filter and I rinse it in old tank water when I do water changes, If it falls apart when I rinse it I replace it, Which happens about every 1-2 months, depending on the tank. As far as I can tell I've never had a "re-cycle".


----------



## wood (Nov 15, 2006)

I use an AquaClear 50 on my 10 gallon and absolutely love it. I use 1 bag of Seachem Purigen, 1 bag of Seachem Matrix, and 1 foam pad that comes with the aquaclear. 

I highly recommend it. Get rid of the topfin, it is almost worthless.

-Ryan


----------



## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

aquaclear is best HOB ever! Don't let anyone tell you otherwise... I was also told otherwise when I was starting out and still have a penguin w/out biowheel on my 55g. Will have a canister sooner or later!

-Andrew


----------



## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

Aquaclear rules.
The top fin filter 10 is the easiest thing to clog. my GPH on my fry tank is about 4 or so.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

I noticed that. Top Fin is so cheap. Mine gets clogged like everyother day. But I should be getting a new filter very soon.

Just to ask. I was told(well someone else but it was relevant to me aswell) that a crack in the housing of a canister filter makes it a bad deal. Is that true? I will uphold what people tell me untill I can prove it.


----------



## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

yes, since it is pressurized, the crack could lead to leakage.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Okay. Then I need to pm epic. It sounded like a good deal though.


----------



## Storm_Rider (Sep 30, 2006)

it is a good deal if you can find a new canister shell/bin/bucket/cover whatever it is that's cracked. on cannister filters, the most expensive part is the lid that houses the impeller and motor. other than that, everything else is reasonably cheap to replace.

what crack is epic trying to sell you? and for how much if it's not top secret


ALSO: never use top fin heaters, i bought one because it was the cheapest heater there. while it works, it never works right; no matter what setting i put it on, the water is always 80-82 degrees.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Storm_Rider said:


> it is a good deal if you can find a new canister shell/bin/bucket/cover whatever it is that's cracked. on cannister filters, the most expensive part is the lid that houses the impeller and motor. other than that, everything else is reasonably cheap to replace.
> 
> what crack is epic trying to sell you? and for how much if it's not top secret
> 
> ...


He said there was a crack on the Housing of the canister. Im not too experienced with canisters and so thats why I asked. On finding a new part to it I would need to find out what it looked like, how to replace it, how much it was, and also where around here possibly sells them. Like I said the crack is on the housing and he was going to sell for $45 I think he had said.

I had a heater fry my fish...and it was by top fin...


----------



## Storm_Rider (Sep 30, 2006)

well how much is the filter worth new? how much does the part that needs to be replaced cost? some simple math will tell you if it's a good deal in the end or not


----------



## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

I'm sure top fin sucks but so does the green marina heater model.
ine won't get above 84* at all. my top fins(50 and 200watts)
work great. They were a whole 7$(combined) new.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Storm Rider said:


> well how much is the filter worth new? how much does the part that needs to be replaced cost? some simple math will tell you if it's a good deal in the end or not


The filter, he said, costs $70 new. Im not sure how much it will cost to get it replaced but me and epic had discussed the problem. I am going to be getting a AC 30 off of Maha for $26 and epic is selling it to some one else for $50. It works out for the both of us !



dufus said:


> I'm sure top fin sucks but so does the green marina heater model.
> ine won't get above 84* at all. my top fins(50 and 200watts)
> work great. They were a whole 7$(combined) new.


My heater was so bad, at first it worked. A month later it was no longer working. It was crazy, I seen floating fish sticks lol.


----------



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

AquaClear 30.

PetSmart - Aqua Clear Aquarium Filters by Hagen

$13 after the $5 off $15 coupon. You just paid for two filters.


----------



## Thanks (Oct 9, 2004)

James From Cali said:


> I forgot to ask. I know one of my major things to get at the time is a test kit. But what other stuff should I plan on getting besides higher lighting? Here is the list of stuff I have:
> 
> Cleaning Equipment:
> Algae Scrubber-Glass
> ...


Your substrate won't grow jack.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

@Thanks-Yeah, what should I switch it to? Im thinking flourite.
@epic-What  I from florida to here how much would the shipping be? Im thinking that is where the money is.


----------



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Thanks said:


> Your substrate won't grow jack.


I actually grow a good collection of stems in black gravel. Of course, I have 72 watts of PC and pressurized. 

Switching to ADA AS soon though.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

ADA AS stands for what? All I know is ADA Aqua Soil.


----------



## fshfanatic (Apr 20, 2006)

I would like to nominate this thread for the "Most boring thread ever award", No offense, but 17 pages of nothing..

I have to ask, How much money have you invested in this 10 tank so far?


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

10g: 
Gravel($15)
Wood(free)
Heater($21)
Thermometer(free)
filter($25)
DIY CO2($5)
Net($2.50)
Food($12)
Greg Watson Ferts(Free)
Plant Gro($9)
Glass Scrubber($5)
Gravel Vac($5)
Tank($11)
Glass top($13)
Lighting($16)
Total:$139.50

Plants:
Rotala Rotundifolia(Free)
Brazillian Pennywort(Free)
Green Hygro(Free)
Water Hyssop(Free)
Java Moss, Petite Nana, Marimo Balls($12, package)
Wendtii Crypt(Free)
Total:$12

Fish:
Male and Female Red Wag Platy($2.40)
Male Sunburst Wag Platy($1.20)
Total:$3.60


Grand Total: $155.10


----------



## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

you paid 25$ for a top fin filter, and 21 for a heater? WTF is hat just cali prices or what?


----------



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Those are poor-planing prices.

I paid $21 for a heater. A 200 watt Visi-Therm Stealth heater....worth every penny.


----------



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Gravel($15) - wasted money
Wood(free)
Heater($21) - unless it's a Visi-Therm Stealth submersible heater, you paid too much
Thermometer(free)
filter($25) - unless it was an AquaClear 50, you paid too much
DIY CO2($5) - OK
Net($2.50) - sure, if it's a huge freaking net!
Food($12) - $4 max for the platys, add $3 in algae wafers for something.
Greg Watson Ferts(Free)
Plant Gro($9) - ...huh?
Glass Scrubber($5) - please tell me it's at least a Mag Float?
Gravel Vac($5) - a neccessity.
Tank($11) - 10 gallons are $8, but what the hey.
Glass top($13) 
Lighting($16) - $19 for an incandescent hood plus $10 for bubs = $29.


All newbies make mistakes.


Even if you had gotten one of those 10 gallon kits (my first newbie mistake):
The kit was $50 and includes:
Tank
Whisper filter
Heater
Net
Tape-on thermometer
Light fixture

And then adding on to what you paid:
Gravel($15)
DIY CO2($5)
Food($12)
Plant Gro($9)
Glass Scrubber($5)
Gravel Vac($5)

Total: $105.13 (8.25% tax included in the $50 tank kit).


----------



## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

fshfanatic said:


> I would like to nominate this thread for the "Most boring thread ever award", No offense, but 17 pages of nothing..



another member thinking the same thing i have thought for a whole month now. _sigh.._ and for god sakes, if you have a question about your tank, post it in your journal instead of creating another thread for one stupid question.


----------



## edacsac (Nov 13, 2006)

fshfanatic said:


> I would like to nominate this thread for the "Most boring thread ever award", No offense, but 17 pages of nothing..


Hehe... I almost spit cool-aid out of my nose when I read that.


----------



## fshfanatic (Apr 20, 2006)

danepatrick said:


> another member thinking the same thing i have thought for a whole month now. _sigh.._ and for god sakes, if you have a question about your tank, post it in your journal instead of creating another thread for one stupid question.



You will notice that he purchased the gravel vac before he even had gravel in the tank.. Poor planning to say the least...


----------



## edacsac (Nov 13, 2006)

I did alot of poor planning myself though, and alot of the threads I started where real stinkers. I think this thread is more about camaraderie, and the excitement of starting out and participating hands on. I think I remember reading that James has been reading on different boards for several moons and now finally has a tank of his own. I f that where my case, I'd either be bursting at the seams by now if I didn't already set it aside and move on to something else.

Ya, for some reason I was compelled to read all 17 pages too. I wanted to see what all the excitement was about.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Well the gravel vac was from another tank. I had it for a while so it was there but I have all the reciepts so I can say how much things were. Im sorry its such a boring thread. I have it to show 40 post a page so it only shows 7 pages. But I am trying to get things in order with trying to take better pics, getting new growth, and makeing sure my equipment is working. How can you make a thread interesting? lol


----------



## edacsac (Nov 13, 2006)

James From Cali said:


> Well the gravel vac was from another tank. I had it for a while so it was there but I have all the reciepts so I can say how much things were. Im sorry its such a boring thread. I have it to show 40 post a page so it only shows 7 pages. But I am trying to get things in order with trying to take better pics, getting new growth, and makeing sure my equipment is working. How can you make a thread interesting? lol


Don't be sorry for or worry about a thread possibly being boring. 

1.) This is more or a less a journal type thread, right?
2.) If the thread is 17 pages long and other people are still hanging in there with you, it obviously isn't boring to everyone.
3.) It kept me occupied for a 1/2 hour last night.


----------



## Ds11375 (Jan 28, 2006)

This might sound lame but think of setting up your tank in the same manner you would if you were building a House.
Start with a sound foundation.... then the walls go up and finally the roof. If you have been on different boards reading about planted tanks then you should've researched more about different products before you actually went out and purchased items for your tank. In the end you will probably replace everything you purchased orginally.That would be a big waste of money esp for someone on a tight budget. When I first started keeping fish I didn't have the Internet to rely on for help. I either read books or asked people at my LPS. Make a list of what you want to change and stick to it.... Don't let yourself get side tracked.

Dan


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Ds11375 said:


> This might sound lame but think of setting up your tank in the same manner you would if you were building a House.
> Start with a sound foundation.... then the walls go up and finally the roof. If you have been on different boards reading about planted tanks then you should've researched more about different products before you actually went out and purchased items for your tank. In the end you will probably replace everything you purchased orginally.That would be a big waste of money esp for someone on a tight budget. When I first started keeping fish I didn't have the Internet to rely on for help. I either read books or asked people at my LPS. Make a list of what you want to change and stick to it.... Don't let yourself get side tracked.
> 
> Dan



Yeah I been trying to do taht. I had alot of stuff from the tank before. So it is time for a switch. I had most of the stuff for like 2 1/2 years. 



edacsac said:


> Don't be sorry for or worry about a thread possibly being boring.
> 
> 1.) This is more or a less a journal type thread, right?
> 2.) If the thread is 17 pages long and other people are still hanging in there with you, it obviously isn't boring to everyone.
> 3.) It kept me occupied for a 1/2 hour last night.


1)Yes this is like a journal type thread. 
2) Even I feel like its more of a chat than thread because I ask all the questions and never post any new pics, which I am getting to very soon.
3)LOL, well it keeps some people busy hehe.


----------



## mr.sandman (Nov 7, 2006)

Just remember, post only if your comment necessary as public information.:icon_smil


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Here is the tank. I couldnt wait and it took 18 pics to get this one lol.

My background is black electrical tape for those who care


----------



## wood (Nov 15, 2006)

It looks like you are injecting the CO2 directly into the topfin. Please get a Hagen Ladder or else you are completely wasting your time with that setup you currently have. Injecting into canister filters is fine, but hang on filters is pointless IMO.

-Ryan


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Im going to be adding a airstone soon to diffuse it. Thats the only way I can think of it.


----------



## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

i think the problem, and why people are getting annoyed, is that some people (you, James) (have) post(ed)/ask(ed) the same questions over and over again, where as if you take an hour or in most cases, a lot less time, you can just find the answer for yourself. it's sad how lazy people are today. you're sitting down at a computer and yet, too lazy to read in order to find some valuable information. instead of getting off of your ass (wait, no, you can still sit down for this) and looking up answers to your questions, you take the easy way out and just want someone to give it to you.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Yeah I can understand that and I been trying my best to search first. I been doing alot of that and I apologize.


----------



## edacsac (Nov 13, 2006)

James From Cali said:


> Im going to be adding a airstone soon to diffuse it. Thats the only way I can think of it.


Limewood airstones do _ok_ for diffusing co2 and are cheap - at least better than a regular airstone. But a ceramic diffuser, or ladder is better yet. A regular airstone really isn't a step up from what you have going right now.

:icon_eek: And here I am feeding the fire...


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Ys I know it aint much of a step up but I wont be getting the new CO2 unit for a while.


----------



## fish_lover0591 (Nov 11, 2006)

Just Because you don't like James_from_Cali's Journal doesn't mean you can call this thread worthless. He has lots of questions about setting up his 1st or 2nd planted tank. He does need to get used to using the search button though. James you should have posted on the board before you started this thread to figure out your plan then buy everything you would need and then you could start your journal the right way  How about getting a powerhead and using that to mist your co2 ?

heres a link to a little info about it http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/29518-help-diy-venturi-mister.html


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

fish_lover0591 said:


> Just Because you don't like James_from_Cali's Journal doesn't mean you can call this thread worthless. He has lots of questions about setting up his 1st or 2nd planted tank. He does need to get used to using the search button though. James you should have posted on the board before you started this thread to figure out your plan then buy everything you would need and then you could start your journal the right way  How about getting a powerhead and using that to mist your co2 ?
> 
> heres a link to a little info about it http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/29518-help-diy-venturi-mister.html


I will definitely use the search more often. I know how frustrating it is to keep answering old questions. Yeah I guess I should of figured everything I needed first. The powerhead idea is interesting, I need to pick one up. I will not be posting in this thread until I have all the nessecary items. Thanks for the ones that have been patient.


----------



## weaselnoze (Dec 22, 2006)

james dont worry bout it. at least you keep it in one place! i could understand what he is saying had you threads all over the board. but damn. this is a DISCUSSION forum. dont sweat it. ask and you shall recieve


----------



## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

Y.A.A revolt!
The thread is not useless. Boring, but not useless.
He's 16 for christ sake, give him a break!
While the whole chat part is not neccasarry, it doesn't hurt much.

If you are bored with it, DON'T read it!


> edacsack: And here I am feeding the fire...


Screw the fire, keep the thread goin!


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

weaselnoze said:


> james dont worry bout it. at least you keep it in one place! i could understand what he is saying had you threads all over the board. but damn. this is a DISCUSSION forum. dont sweat it. ask and you shall recieve


Yeah from now on I am going to review what I had written to make sure I dont ask twice and keep it in this one thread and also I am going to combine my post if I have 2 or 3 in a row.



dufs said:


> Y.A.A revolt!
> The thread is not useless. Boring, but not useless.
> He's 16 for christ sake, give him a break!
> While the whole chat part is not neccasarry, it doesn't hurt much.
> ...


Well I aggree with what they are saying. Like posting so many threads that I can easily search for(use to another forum lol). But a Y.A.A. Revolt sounds fun.....lol.

I dont want to have slack just cause Im 16, that dont make it any better. I dont really see how its useless, it is boring, but I dont see any cause for it being useless.


----------



## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

by all means James, anything i have said is not to discourage you and i want you to know that. it's the others saying things about your age that are holding you to a lower standard. yes, you are 16. and you're very capable of using a search feature. i know why you haven't. you're overloading with excitement! no big deal, you just have to direct it. instead of creating a thread everytime you have a question, just do it in your journal. no sweat. i wish you MANY years of happy planting. i apologize if i've been somewhat forward. if there's anything i can do you for you let me know.


----------



## wood (Nov 15, 2006)

James, please post a "Want to buy Hagen Ladder" in the swap&shop. The MOST you could possibly pay is $10, and that is for brand new. I am sure someone on this forum will hook you up with a better price. Save the $2 on the airstone and just pay a little extra and get the ladder. You will regret it if you dont. 

A 10 gallon has almost no depth and therefore when using an airstone the bubbles have no time to diffuse. A ladder creates more depth and thus helps the CO2 diffuse A LOT better.

Please, trust me on this.... I learned the hard way...

-Ryan


----------



## sandiegoryu (Feb 15, 2006)

Y.A.A. REVOLT! That is all :-D.

I'm gonna go aquascape my tank today and get my paintball co2 filled up tomorrow so it's gonna look beautiful soon. :-D.

Yes and I've noticed you are a very active person on this board James. Joined Decemeber and you have 460 posts already! That's good I guess. I tend to be quite and read but now I'm trying to help and put my point of view on things. I love this place.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Hey you guys actually calmed me down alot with this. I get overly excited about my tank, even on small things lol. But I appreciate and understand what everyone says. I am really the only one that has an interest in fish in my house so I appreciate and am grateful for everything you guys have told me.



wood said:


> James, please post a "Want to buy Hagen Ladder" in the swap&shop. The MOST you could possibly pay is $10, and that is for brand new. I am sure someone on this forum will hook you up with a better price. Save the $2 on the airstone and just pay a little extra and get the ladder. You will regret it if you dont.
> 
> A 10 gallon has almost no depth and therefore when using an airstone the bubbles have no time to diffuse. A ladder creates more depth and thus helps the CO2 diffuse A LOT better.
> 
> ...


Well I think I might just buy the Hagen CO2 unit itself. I can get that in March. Im starting to learn that it is hard to dffuse the CO2 in the 10g. 



sandiegoryu said:


> Y.A.A. REVOLT! That is all :-D.
> 
> I'm gonna go aquascape my tank today and get my paintball co2 filled up tomorrow so it's gonna look beautiful soon. :-D.
> 
> Yes and I've noticed you are a very active person on this board James. Joined Decemeber and you have 460 posts already! That's good I guess. I tend to be quite and read but now I'm trying to help and put my point of view on things. I love this place.


I cant wait to see your tank. I am active, mainly in this thread and posting many others. I will be stopping that.


----------



## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

The hagen kit is a waste of money probally. they provide you with avtivator(yeast) and stabilizer(baking soda) and you add sugar and warm water.
For 40$, i think i would buy the ladder for ten then spend 10$ on a good setup(which you already have huh) then have the rest leftover for something else. All you're paying for is the nice looking canister it comes with, and you could build one yourself.

I think the ladder is the best way to cheaply diffuse co2 in a ten. other diffusion methods need room to float the bubbles.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

$10 for the ladder, I could mingle that most likely. Is there an area for the tube to go on so it gets diffused? If I would paint the bottle black would that mess with the CO2 or no. I dont want to ruin the CO2.

Nm, doing a search right now


----------



## Blackeyes (Jul 6, 2006)

danepatrick said:


> i think the problem, and why people are getting annoyed, is that some people (you, James) (have) post(ed)/ask(ed) the same questions over and over again, where as if you take an hour or in most cases, a lot less time, you can just find the answer for yourself. it's sad how lazy people are today. you're sitting down at a computer and yet, too lazy to read in order to find some valuable information. instead of getting off of your ass (wait, no, you can still sit down for this) and looking up answers to your questions, you take the easy way out and just want someone to give it to you.



My Point Exactly!


----------



## Blackeyes (Jul 6, 2006)

dufus said:


> For 40$, i think i would buy the ladder for ten then spend 10$ on a good setup



$40 where the hell are you going? At Petsmart it was around $20


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

The HagenCO2 around here is $33.99 so its like $35. I know its kinda high considering the prices I found on other sites. And it is at a Petsmart.


----------



## weaselnoze (Dec 22, 2006)

the red sea is about 30 at my petsmart and petco. 

James! DONT slow down. this is YOUR thread. im sure the small (in comparison) amount of bandwidth that this thread uses is negligible. seriously. combining consecutive posts and not repeating things will help clean it up but by all means, ASK AWAY! this is a message board, not an encyclopedia!!!


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

I kinda feel like a bad guy right now lol. Im so new to the plants and planted aquariums and I feel like I should know these things. But I am in the process of cleaning this thread up(with at least my posts) tight now. I had did a search on some of the things and found some answers and I am writing them down so I dont forget.


----------



## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

No bad guy, just a great PT member!
If people are following along, they won't have to read the about 17 pages of stuff talked about that everyone is ranting about.
I found the hagan system at petsmart for 37.99
at my lfs, it's 34.99
and at another lfs it's 45$.


----------



## Blackeyes (Jul 6, 2006)

dufus said:


> No bad guy, just a great PT member!
> If people are following along, they won't have to read the about 17 pages of stuff talked about that everyone is ranting about.
> I found the hagan system at petsmart for 37.99
> at my lfs, it's 34.99
> and at another lfs it's 45$.


way over priced


----------



## Thanks (Oct 9, 2004)

You don't need to buy the hagen system, just the ladder. You've done DIY CO2 before right? Just stick the air hose that you were inserting into the filter into the ladder instead. 


You've wasted a LOT of money already. Do some propper planning before you do anything else that's rash and stupid.


----------



## edacsac (Nov 13, 2006)

James From Cali said:


> I kinda feel like a bad guy right now lol. Im so new to the plants and planted aquariums and I feel like I should know these things. But I am in the process of cleaning this thread up(with at least my posts) tight now. I had did a search on some of the things and found some answers and I am writing them down so I dont forget.


Don't feel bad, I asked some rather searchable questions when I first got here and still do. And sometimes, I still ask questions after I've found answers. I'm probably just as new to this as you are; if not more, but I'm reading alot. I'm sitting here right now with a 10gal tank full of plant trimmings and no fish, trying to dial in my co2 and wondering why I'm reading ammonia. Shouldn't be, but I am. I'm thinking I won't find much about it in a search.

When I first bought a tank back in November, I did a bunch of research (although not enough), bought a 50 gal, messed up on all kinds of things: wasted money on substrates, wasted money on the wrong filter, overpaid for everything, took advice flat out form my LFS, broke my tank, got aggrevated and sold everything to a friend at a sorrowful discount - vowing that I was done, never again. I experienced things first hand that I could have avoided if I would have read and researched *ALOT* more, taken my time and thought things out instead of going on impulse because I was _excited_. And I'm sure I'm not the only one who has ever done this. Now I'm back again doing things much slower, armed with more knowledge after rereading things and making more choices on my own. I know it's exciting, but it takes time to do things right. This hobby isn't cheap and there is a whole lot to learn. I was overwhelmed with all the details.

And like I said before, if people weren't interested in this thread or enjoying it to some point, it wouldn't have gone 19 pages - or you'd be talkin to yourself for those 19 pages. Just do more research in the future, as I gaurentee you won't get this kind of attention going forward.

Don't let it get you down though.

I'd let this thread die off... Take what you've learned from everyone, get your tank dialed in with the basics and start a new journal. Take pictures after water changes or something, and update when significant things happen.

:icon_evil ---> Pushing for 20 pages


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

I am gathering all the info I will possibly need before starting anew with a new thread. This way I can make sure things are done absolutely right!


----------



## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

well, let's start here. have you tested your nitrates? that plant gro is trace elements if i'm not mistaken. you don't really have enough plants in your tank to take up all of those nutrients, should you start adding them. therefore you are going to have major algae issues and get really aggrevated. so lets test your nitrate and see where that goes. i'm not sure if you know this already, but the three major MACRO nutrients are nitrate, potassium, and phosphate. it's also a good idea to test your tap water to see what's going in your tank. MICRO nutrients are consisted of iron, trace minerals, etc. if you don't have sufficient plant mass in your tank, all of the excess nutrients will give algae a chance to take over. once you up your lighting, plants will need more co2 to uptake more nutrients, therefore requiring you to dose. until then, let's take our time. fyi: most friendly LFS will test your water for free if you don't have the money to invest in a test kit.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

danepatrick said:


> well, let's start here. have you tested your nitrates? that plant gro is trace elements if i'm not mistaken. you don't really have enough plants in your tank to take up all of those nutrients, should you start adding them. therefore you are going to have major algae issues and get really aggrevated. so lets test your nitrate and see where that goes. i'm not sure if you know this already, but the three major MACRO nutrients are nitrate, potassium, and phosphate. it's also i good idea to test your tap water to see what's going in your tank. MICRO nutrients are consisted of iron, trace minerals, etc. if you don't have sufficient plant mass in your tank, all of the excess nutrients will give algae a chance to take over. once you up your lighting, plants will need more co2 to uptake more nutrients, therefore requiring you to dose. until then, let's take our time. fyi: most friendly LFS will test your water for free if you don't have the money to invest in a test kit.


Okay I got some stuff to write down lol. Well the last time I known the Nitrates are 20 ppm. I just dont want to start to dose anything and then have major problems. I will get my tap tested aswell. I kinew about MACROS and MICROS, just didnt know what they were.


----------



## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

well, if the nitrate is at 20ppm, then you're fine. that is an ideal level. 10-20ppm is what you want. check out this thread: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/water-parameters/21944-_dosing-regimes_.html

this is a sticky that has been available since the day you signed up. this is what i mean by searching around the forum.

-edit-
well, the link isn't working. go to the main page, click on water parameters, then it is the first thread entitled Dosing Regime's


----------



## wood (Nov 15, 2006)

edacsac said:


> Don't feel bad, I asked some rather searchable questions when I first got here and still do. And sometimes, I still ask questions after I've found answers. I'm probably just as new to this as you are; if not more, but I'm reading alot. I'm sitting here right now with a 10gal tank full of plant trimmings and no fish, trying to dial in my co2 and wondering why I'm reading ammonia. Shouldn't be, but I am. I'm thinking I won't find much about it in a search.
> 
> When I first bought a tank back in November, I did a bunch of research (although not enough), bought a 50 gal, messed up on all kinds of things: wasted money on substrates, wasted money on the wrong filter, overpaid for everything, took advice flat out form my LFS, broke my tank, got aggrevated and sold everything to a friend at a sorrowful discount - vowing that I was done, never again. I experienced things first hand that I could have avoided if I would have read and researched *ALOT* more, taken my time and thought things out instead of going on impulse because I was _excited_. And I'm sure I'm not the only one who has ever done this. Now I'm back again doing things much slower, armed with more knowledge after rereading things and making more choices on my own. I know it's exciting, but it takes time to do things right. This hobby isn't cheap and there is a whole lot to learn. I was overwhelmed with all the details.
> 
> ...


Couldn't have said it any better!

I learned the hard way that rushing into things with this hobby is just asking for disaster... Take your time, and read read read read and read some more. There is no way in hell that I would have been able to do any of my tanks without the help of these forums. LFS people don't know anything about planted tanks. 

Do yourself a favor James, stop everything you are doing with this tank. Stop dosing ferts. Stop freaking out and wanting it all immediately. You need to read the basics first. Substrate, lighting, CO2, etc. Get more knowledgeable before you do anything or else you are going to keep getting upset at the bad results and spending more money than you should. 

Here are a few simple things that I recommend you do. If you do not have the money for them, then WAIT! Save up money until you do.... I have a 10 gallon as well so I can give you some pointers.

*#1 EMPTY YOUR TANK COMPLETELY ONCE YOU GET EVERYTHING BELOW*

#2 Substrate: Purchase ADA Aquasoil ( go to Aqua Design Amano USA/ADGshop.com- now available in the U.S.A, prouldy offered by Aquarium Design Group. The finest planted aquarium products. and check out what they have there. Colors, etc.) YOU ONLY NEED THE AQUASOIL, dont worry about anything else on there, seriously! You only need 1 9-Liter bag $26.00 + shipping = $33.00

#3 Filtration: Buy an Aquaclear 50 either online or at Petsmart. This may seem like too much speed but trust me, get the 50. $35.00

#4 CO2: Read in the DIY section how to make the setup. Very simple even a caveman can do it. 2 liter bottle, some tubing, aquarium sealant, yeast, sugar, water.. AND THE HAGEN LADDER! This should cost no more than $15.00

#5 Lighting: Use the hood that came with the 10 gallon and purchase (2) 6500k 20 watt Compact Fluorescent bulbs from Walmart. Screw them into the hood. Also get a small timer from CVS. Should cost no more than $20.00

Total is no more than $110.00 tax included. When you do the 5 things above then you will be ready to start a nice tank, and dosing properly. No need to be dosing your tank now because you have almost no plant mass.

Disclaimer: This is just my advice and not a golden rule at all. This is just what I would do. Others may disagree with this strategy, so be it. 

Good luck! And have patience, please.

-Ryan


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

wood said:


> Couldn't have said it any better!
> 
> I learned the hard way that rushing into things with this hobby is just asking for disaster... Take your time, and read read read read and read some more. There is no way in hell that I would have been able to do any of my tanks without the help of these forums. LFS people don't know anything about planted tanks.
> 
> ...


Okay the Aqua soil, the $33 is shipping included right?

Thanks wood. Every one is helpful and I am going to be patient. I am writing all of this down


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

danepatrick said:


> well, if the nitrate is at 20ppm, then you're fine. that is an ideal level. 10-20ppm is what you want. check out this thread: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/water-parameters/21944-_dosing-regimes_.html
> 
> this is a sticky that has been available since the day you signed up. this is what i mean by searching around the forum.
> 
> ...


Okay thanks, I read that thread but the part that confuses me is *"If dosing a 10gal highlight C02 enriched tank, divide above regime x2"*
The Divide above regime x2. Does that mean Divide by 2?


----------



## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

yes james.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Okay thanks. I need to write that down as well.


----------



## Blackeyes (Jul 6, 2006)

James From Cali said:


> Okay the Aqua soil, the $33 is shipping included right?
> 
> Thanks wood. Every one is helpful and I am going to be patient. I am writing all of this down


One other thing, if you don't have the money to spend on Aquasoil, then go the other route and get Flourite. 1 bag with give you 2in in a 10gal. I've had flourite for a few months and i like it a lot. My plants look friggin awesome, and now since i bought more plants my algae is gone. The flourite might be messy but its worth it.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Blackeyes said:


> One other thing, if you don't have the money to spend on Aquasoil, then go the other route and get Flourite. 1 bag with give you 2in in a 10gal. I've had flourite for a few months and i like it a lot. My plants look friggin awesome, and now since i bought more plants my algae is gone. The flourite might be messy but its worth it.


That would be a cheaper alternative for me and I have a good supply near my house(petsmart). Thanks for the suggestion:thumbsup:


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

@wood-All I need now is a way to diffuse the CO2 into the tank. Everything else is what I have now, 3L bottle, tubing, check valve, recipe.


----------



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Keep the water level high. Plumb it into the intake. Always keep the water level high. Modify the outflow of the filter with a sponge to reduce surface agitation....

There's threads on it: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/e...ght-filter-intake-tube.html?highlight=hob+co2

There's more, but I've left them for you to find with the Search tool.


----------



## Storm_Rider (Sep 30, 2006)

James From Cali said:


> ...I will not be posting in this thread until I have all the nessecary items. Thanks for the ones that have been patient.


what happened to that? hah 

if you want to reduce clutter, you can cut down on simple replies such as 'thanks. i will do that and write it down" i'm sure whoever said it knows you read and got the msg and they know you appreciate it. i'm most thankful that you stopped posting your entire contents list in every post like earlier on. just keep your comment count lower than the reader's comments and it should be ok.

unless you buy the hagen ladder (called a bubble counter by most sites) from someone on here, i don't think you can find it cheaply as $10. bigalsonline has it for $12 i think and i was just going to get it there since i'm buying other things.

also, i'm wondering if you are still going to dabble with the powerhead mister idea? that might be cheaper for you and provide you with other uses in the future instead of just a bubble ladder. just wanted to bring it up in case you forgot already.

oh and i don't know what other people think, but that electrical tape background is horribly ugly. by far the worst thing you've done in my opinion. i thought it was some funky wall at first. best of luck getting that off without using any commercial gunk chemicals. i'm pretty sure you can find black construction paper for cheap that would look better than that. even waterpainting it black would look better. unless you dig those lines and air bubbles. the store michael's has a big piece of glossy black paper for less than a dollar. if you buy that, i will reimburst you for it.


----------



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Storm_Rider said:


> unless you buy the hagen ladder (called a bubble counter by most sites) from someone on here, i don't think you can find it cheaply as $10.


While the Hagen ladder can be used as a bubble counter, when other sites say "bubble counter", they pretty much mean only a bubble counter. It's a cylindrical tube with a hole at the top and a hole at the bottom. The liquid inside lets CO2 bubbles travel through it so that you can count it.

You can count the bubbles as the CO2 bubbles travel up the Hagen Ladder, but the ladder also works as a "diffuser", allowing CO2 to diffuser into the water as it slowly makes it's way up to the surface.


----------



## Storm_Rider (Sep 30, 2006)

i understand that epic. but i'm just working on the photo and discription. they are clearly discribing the ladder and show a picture of it. i just thought i'd mention it so that if he were to look for it, he'd find more results calling it a bubble counter than a hagen ladder. or that is how my experience is.

why didn't you comment on his electrical tape? do ppl actually like that?


----------



## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

James From Cali said:


> That would be a cheaper alternative for me and I have a good supply near my house(petsmart). Thanks for the suggestion:thumbsup:


No, don't do it!
I think you'll be happier with aquasoil, and it's not that much more.
I have had a few bad problems with flourite. first if you don't wash it forever it will cloud VERY easily. second, it is rather ugly IMO. third, it is very rough.
Eco complete or Aquasoil is the best IMHO.

Also, if you're gonna get good stuff, upgrade the lights better than spiral compacts. Get a compact flourescent fixture. The coralife and sattelite units are very reasonably priced, and are great fixtures.


----------



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Storm_Rider said:


> i understand that epic. but i'm just working on the photo and discription. they are clearly discribing the ladder and show a picture of it. i just thought i'd mention it so that if he were to look for it, he'd find more results calling it a bubble counter than a hagen ladder. or that is how my experience is.
> 
> why didn't you comment on his electrical tape? do ppl actually like that?



lol. Even if he wanted to take the tape off, he'd spent 3 hours cleaning all that crap off. Hahha.


----------



## aquarium boy (Jul 28, 2004)

if you cant really afford either of the subtrates you can do what i did.
pour pool filter sand into your tanks (after washing it...ALOT) iv had both eco complete and flourite and the result was the same as the filter sand.
the only thing is i can get almost 6 times the amount of the filter sand 
for the price of one bag of flourite, eco complete.


----------



## fish_lover0591 (Nov 11, 2006)

epicfish said:


> lol. Even if he wanted to take the tape off, he'd spent 3 hours cleaning all that crap off. Hahha.



He would need some goo gone to get all that tape residue off :tongue: not to be mean of course but black construction paper would look way better than tape 

Aquarium boy pool filter sand doesn't have any type of nutrient in it. Flourite and eco complete have lots idk how you got the same results with both...


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Yeah, I had tooken it off and it didnt leave any residue. I am going to get black construction paper.


----------



## Blackeyes (Jul 6, 2006)

dufus said:


> No, don't do it!
> I think you'll be happier with aquasoil, and it's not that much more.
> I have had a few bad problems with flourite. first if you don't wash it forever it will cloud VERY easily. second, it is rather ugly IMO. third, it is very rough.
> Eco complete or Aquasoil is the best IMHO.
> ...


Ok...so it clouds, so does most of the other substrates. On the other note, don't make the descision for him. Its not ugly nor is it rough, tell me how is it rough? If you wanna keep the lost low and have a good outcome stick to the Flourite since its in your budget. Buying Aqua Soil at this point i think i out oc the budget considered the limited amount of money.


----------



## Rion (Dec 29, 2006)

I don't know why people have problems with flourite, the trick is to wash it in small amounts and it cleans pretty easy. flourite looks fine as long as it matches your other decor such as logs and rocks as with any other substrate


----------



## sandiegoryu (Feb 15, 2006)

Flourite sucks, once you see ADA AS lol. Once I saw ADA AS in my tank, I had the instinct to just throw away my remaining Flourite because it grew my plants sooo great, it is much more pleasing aethetically, and they are great for planting.

I've read threads where ADA AS was actually CHEAPER than flourite!


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Just to comment but the flourite is cheaper. With shipping the ADA comes to $42.12(9L), but I have been working hard this month and I only owe my mom $15 so I am good on price. I am oing to be working for my apartments(doing little things) for some extra cash.


----------



## Nightshop (May 12, 2006)

Anyone is their right mind left with a choice between those three substrates would choose aquasoil. Not to say eco and flourite aren't good, it's just aquasoil has seemed to be the best this hobbie has ot offer.

Also, there are ways to introduce flourite without washing and having mininal clouding.


----------



## Blackeyes (Jul 6, 2006)

Nightshop said:


> Anyone is their right mind left with a choice between those three substrates would choose aquasoil. Not to say eco and flourite aren't good, it's just aquasoil has seemed to be the best this hobbie has ot offer.
> 
> Also, there are ways to introduce flourite without washing and having mininal clouding.


Its considered one of the best because of Amano, and for its high quality. Start simple then upgrade


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Well I am upgrading. I will owe my mom like $15. I am going to work my butt off just to get new stuff!


----------



## Nightshop (May 12, 2006)

Why not get a part time job? What with minimum wage at $7.50, you can earn a lot of money in a short ammount of time.


----------



## DC.UNC (Dec 7, 2006)

Its really pretty simple to get a part time job so you can stop worrying about your money issue. When i was your age i had my pick of places that would hire high schoolers. It was actually a task to find an area around town that didnt have any business that would hire teenagers. If you really want to get a job, its fairly easy and takes minimal effort.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

I am thinking about getting a job at a new fish store. I just need to call them.


----------



## blueguppygirl (Oct 30, 2006)

Nightshop said:


> Why not get a part time job? What with minimum wage at $7.50, you can earn a lot of money in a short ammount of time.


it must be nice to have min. wage that high! Min. wage here is $5.15 (yes I know the cost of living is much higher in cali.) Min. wage hasn't changed in YEARS here, every time it goes up for a vote they shoot it down like it were a terrorist! :icon_roll

BTW James, A job at the LFS would be perfect for you, you'd be able to earn money and learn more about your hobby. I think you should go for it.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

I just filled out an application. I need to return next time I go in. They are looking for someone that knows about saltwater tanks though . I hope I can get the job. Thanks to Hoppy I would have never found this place lol.

Its a no go. You have to be 18


----------



## Finch_man (Mar 21, 2006)

Minimum wage over is $7.80 PLUS no tax. Haha:icon_smil


----------



## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

Guys, Everyone is giving him really good information... but I think that if he starts out simpler it will work better for him in the long run. 

James there are some things that I know as someone younger that will work better especially when you're starting out on a tight budget.

Light. 10g stock lights are great. I know most people in this forum are what are considered high tech tank keepers. Even most low tech tanks here have lots of extra crap! If anything just get a new bulb in a nice spectrum you want. That way you won't have too much light and will need less ferts and CO2 and will make it easier, Because we all know how crazy life can get, and a stable lower light tank is easier to leave alone for a while.

Substrate. I would go with flourite. It is high in iron which is good for plants. Once washed it doesn't really break down like ADA AS or Florabase or Ecocomplete so you won't have those problems. 

CO2. You don't need a diffuser like everyone keeps telling you. Just keep it nice and simple and run it into the HOB filter. 

Ferts. Keep them minimal, I would probably recommend not doing any ferts until you really understand them. That being said, I don't dose any ferts yet and haven't had too many problems I can't explain. 

Plants, I know you're probably going to want to try a variety. But I think it's probably best to start with lower easier to grow plants, pretty much as you have been. That said Crypts, mosses, lower light and easy to grow stems, are all great. Even Dwarf HG and things like Ricca are possible choices if you have the patience. 

I know money is a factor. So try and get some lower light plants people like or that are in demand in your area. That way you can maybe make some money back on your tank. Once that starts happening you can upgrade things if you wish. Maybe a new filter, maybe a new light, or substrate down the road who knows. But if you take the time and learn how your tank is and what you like and don't like about it. 

Don't let age be a factor. Period end of sentence. If anything use it to your advantage! You don't need to worry about all the expenses someone who owns a house does! You're not working so concentrate on this. It will pay back in the future if you really get a lot of knowledge fish stores will want you later on if there is an age limit. 

If you ever get the you're too young from your parents show them what we're doing over here! I'm younger than you, by at least a year. And RESguy and sandiguru and other are too, tell your parents age is just a number. 

Oh, and read a hell of a lot! Just like go thru all the pages of threads and read as many as you can in the time you have, then pick up form where you left off. There is tons and tons of knowledge in this forum's old posts believe me!

-Andrew

Oh and guys, lay off a bit...


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

My mom just thinks I am crazy but she said that if I am willing to stick with it then she dont care how old I am. I am getting so many views on substrate, here is where confusion really comes into play. I guess I have things to think about. 

I have been reading and also searching the forums when I have a question so I am good on that. I think I will stick with the 15 watt flourescent for now and then upgrade a bit later after my budget is more open.


----------



## trfjason (Aug 10, 2006)

James, I am on a tight budget too. I don't have any fancy equipment. It doesn't mean that it you don't have top of the line equipment, your aquarium will look nice. You should check out my 31G. It's very basic. Flourite is a must, so you should get a bag for your 10G. I used to have plain gravel, after 7 months, I notice some plants don't grow too well, so I made a switch to Flourite. For CO2, go online and get a glass diffuser. 2 bottles of 2L DIY is good enough for your tank, it your mixture is good. 

15 Watts should be okay for you now.


----------



## fishguy5000 (Jan 17, 2007)

Hi James. I've been reading this thread with interest as well. You're clearly learning and having fun, so don't let others discourage you. 

I'm a low-tech guy myself. Don't have the time or patience to trim my plants weekly, and keep up with a high-tech tank.

My suggestions if you are going to stay with 15 watts for a while (and remember that when it comes to free advice, you get what you pay for), is to forget about ferts. The only exception would be to dose Excel, but since you are doing DIY CO2, you probably don't need both, and Excel is expensive.

For substrate, it probably is worth upgrading. I've never used ADA AquaSoil, so i cant comment on that, but I have used Flourite and Eco-Complete, and either one would be okay. i think EcoComplete is a little easier to plant in, and it is nice not to have to rinse, but I would just go with the cheapest.

CO2: Don't buy the hagen system. I have it, and its not worth it. I know somebody mentioned wooden airstones earlier in the thread, and those might be a better option for you than spending money on a diffuser.

Plants: crypts and anubias do very well in lower light tanks. Crypts don't appreciate being moved around, so don't plant any until you're sure you know where you want them.

I think your tank looks great. keep having fun with it!


----------



## sandiegoryu (Feb 15, 2006)

I second the limewood diffusers. A couple of bucks, and I noticed that they have the same diffusing capabilites as my glass diffuser lol.

Well it's only been a month since you started right. There's still much much more time. My tank has changed lots in around 2 years. It grew with my knowledge through research. You shouldn't jump right into trying to get everything right.

Buuuuuut then again you won't have to waste lots of money like me. :-D

I'm sure lots of people already told you this but I'm too lazy to read through 320 posts.


----------



## edacsac (Nov 13, 2006)

sandiegoryu said:


> I second the limewood diffusers. A couple of bucks, and I noticed that they have the same diffusing capabilites as my glass diffuser lol.


I'm about ready to put my limewood bubbler back in, since the bubbles are actually smaller than with the glass diffuser.


----------



## typically (Dec 29, 2006)

fyi james i just found out that if you shop at petsmart they will match online pricing in there stores and competitor pricing as well. i got a $24 aquaclear powerhead for $14 and all i had to do was print out the price they had online. i wish i would have found this out when i started this hobby could have saved a buttload of money =]


----------



## fishguy5000 (Jan 17, 2007)

So will Petsmart match on-line pricing from their competitors? Like I could print out the prices from BigAl's and they would match it?


----------



## typically (Dec 29, 2006)

that's what i've been told. when the girl was ringing my stuff up she had to put in the competitors price to change the price. you can give it a shot the worst thing that could happen would be them saying no =]


----------



## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

Blackeyes said:


> Start simple then upgrade


Screw that! go for gold!
I find it's cheaper if you start with the high grade, and stick to it.


----------



## mrbelvedere (Nov 15, 2005)

dufus said:


> Screw that! go for gold!
> I find it's cheaper if you start with the high grade, and stick to it.


Exactly. I can personally say that is one of the smartest decisions you can make.


----------



## fishguy5000 (Jan 17, 2007)

Hey James! Lets see some pics of your scape with the new plants you got in the Swap n' Shop!


----------



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Heh....how's the cabomba doing?


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Everything is going great you guys. The Combomba is doing really well. I am in the process of experimetning. Seeing what plants in a smaller more controlled situation will grow faster. I have three fast growing stems and three slow growers in a 1g aqaurium and it is being CO2 enriched with ferts and natural light. I am giving it a week and I will post pics then! Patience people, I learned that!


----------



## aquarium boy (Jul 28, 2004)

if you want a fast growing plant you need to get your self some BACOPA MONNIERI also know as moneywort. i did an experment awhile back to see
how much light i needed to grow the stem plants fast so i put two 5g bottles on a 10g with like 40 watts of light i think the BACOPA MONNIERI and Cabomba caroliniana var. caroliniana filled the tank up to the top and almost emerged overnight lol. i think i had somewere around 15 stems of each with a few otos in there.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

I have it but it isnt growing fast as of now so my experiment involves Brazilian Pennywort, Water Hyssop(Moneywort), Green Hygro. I am going to also wait for each stem to get about 6 inches before adding them back to the main tank since they looks so small.


----------



## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

dufus said:


> Screw that! go for gold!
> I find it's cheaper if you start with the high grade, and stick to it.





mrbelvedere said:


> Exactly. I can personally say that is one of the smartest decisions you can make.


I also agree with the above. But only when you have the money! When you're on a tight budget and you're my age most of the kids my age (or teens whatever lol) Can't shell out $500 to do it right the first time since they don't want to wait that long to save it up. So its usually easier to get started with cheaper things and lower light and work your way up.

James what do you have for substrate right now? I am going to be replacing my flourite for something else in my 10g sooner or later... But I think you got some right?

Well this threads been interesting!

-Andrew


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

Fish Newb said:


> James what do you have for substrate right now? I am going to be replacing my flourite for something else in my 10g sooner or later... But I think you got some right?
> 
> Well this threads been interesting!
> 
> -Andrew



Wow its been a while since posting in this thread lol. Yeah I have flourite and I am working on exchanging the flourite for soemthing else but that will come. I may be getting a job and that will help pay for the items needed for my tank such as higher lighting, better co2(pressurized), better substrate, and also a trailer for when Im 18. I got bored with this thread but I will be startting a brand new nice one once my tank settles in nicely.


----------



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

What's the new tank?

Don't get pressurized for just a 10 gallon unless you have extra cash to spare.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

The new tank is sitting in my managers backyard untill I get room in my backyard lol. 

I got someone who is going to get me pressurized for a cheap deal($50) only when I have higher lighting! But by then I would have a job and be able to afford it!


----------



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

How big?

$50? Hmm. Make sure it works and it has everything, lol. And the cylinder has a valid hydrotest date. If it's a complete system, then that's a great deal!


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

He is currently using it on his tank . Its the 125g(or 112 depending on the measurements given in earlier posts).


----------



## dufus (Nov 13, 2006)

I told you you wouldn't like the flourite!
Well, you've come a long way from the beggining of this thread james. You are doing great so far though.


----------



## James From Cali (Dec 15, 2006)

The flourite is not bad actually. it gave me a look I wanted and its great for the Swords and Crypts.


----------



## Coldwater King (Jul 23, 2013)

Wow nicely fallowed thread can you post new pics?


----------



## gorillakev (Mar 7, 2013)

Wow thread revival, but a good one. Too bad i diddnt see amy pics.


----------

