# Dosing = algae!!!



## Solcielo lawrencia (Dec 30, 2013)

You've answered your own question.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

How consistent is your CO2 concentration in the water? Is it the same an hour or so after the lights come on every day? Many of us have seen that allowing the concentration to vary widely, like running low for a day, will lead to BBA, as you have. I quit using DIY CO2 when the variations in concentration due to one of my bottles needing to be changed, was followed by a persistent BBA attack. As long as I was extremely careful to change a bottle before I say any bubble rate drop I had no BBA and was very happy. Once I was a bit late a couple of times, the BBA showed up. And, this was with low light.

A clue to why this happens is that plants manufacture their enzymes to match the conditions they are in. With significant CO2 they use one set of enzymes, but with very low CO2 they use a different set (different amounts). When the CO2 is inconsistent the plants have to readjust their production taking energy away from growing tissue, and, poorly growing plants invite BBA. This is not proven, as far as I know, but fits the data.


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

shift said:


> I started dosing a small amount using the pps-pro calculator about a week ago.


How did you do that? What calculator?

Edward PPS


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Hard to tell from the pic but the plants look severely deficient to me. Also agree with Hoppy re CO2


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## shift (Jan 7, 2013)

Hmm
I use pressurized co2 but in sure it's a swing between night and day. Any suggestion how how to remedy this?


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## Solcielo lawrencia (Dec 30, 2013)

Stable CO2 isn't important and isn't directly causing any BBA issues.


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## shift (Jan 7, 2013)

So what is? I only used root tabs for ages and started doing small dosses of DIY (dry frets mixed) to Pps pro mainly to help fulfill what ever deficiency was making my glosso red on the front right


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

Solcielo lawrencia said:


> Stable CO2 isn't important and isn't directly causing any BBA issues.


To my knowledge, unstable CO2 is the only reliable way of getting BBA to start growing...


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## shift (Jan 7, 2013)

If stable co2 is the answer... Running it 24/7 doesn't seem like a good plan either


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## Solcielo lawrencia (Dec 30, 2013)

shift said:


> So what is? I only used root tabs for ages and started doing small dosses of DIY (dry frets mixed) to Pps pro mainly to help fulfill what ever deficiency was making my glosso red on the front right


There appears to be a symbiotic relationship between bacteria and BBA. The fertilizers aren't just used by plants and algae, it's also used by bacteria to grow. The bacteria provide nutrients for the algae which provides nutrients for the bacteria.

But it's an interesting question: Why would varying CO2 levels cause BBA? There's a correlation sometimes, but that doesn't make it causal.


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## shift (Jan 7, 2013)

I have PH probe on my reef tank. If it wasn't such a pain to unhook it al I would be curious to leave it on for a day or two to find out


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## DennisSingh (Nov 8, 2004)

shift said:


> Hmm
> I use pressurized co2 but in sure it's a swing between night and day. Any suggestion how how to remedy this?


Nice shrimp! I would not mess around with your pressurized co2 with them in. Heck I wouldn't even worry about my plants. Seems like your shrimp are thriving in that one pic you gave.


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## shift (Jan 7, 2013)

Thanks!
shrimp are doing awesome and I have had co2 going for months and have more of berried shrimp do what I'm doing is working minus the algae! I may go back to peroxide spot treating but it's. Pain! Must be a secret to healthy plants and shrimp!


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## dzega (Apr 22, 2013)

Nordic said:


> To my knowledge, unstable CO2 is the only reliable way of getting BBA to start growing...


try to not clean filter and not change water for a few months then :wink2:


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

I have never seen BBA growing under low light. I have had it a few times (because I can only afford DIY CO2).
That being said, I have never seen it in a low light aquarium.


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

I think dzega's point was that bba likes organic waste. Dirty conditions encourage it, clean conditions deter it.


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## yakal (Sep 4, 2015)

nordic said:


> i have never seen bba growing under low light. I have had it a few times (because i can only afford diy co2).
> That being said, i have never seen it in a low light aquarium.


i have had bba in low tech tank... 8 gallon with single 13 watt cfl with anubias and ferns with little to no dosing


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

burr740 said:


> I think dzega's point was that bba likes organic waste. Dirty conditions encourage it, clean conditions deter it.


This has been my bedrock for a long time now. I really don't worry about the inorganic salts (NPK) going in, but I do worry about any organic breakdown that's going on. 

I make sure water changes are done, filters are clean, feeding/stocking is low, dead plant leaves are removed. Obviously the more plants you have the less you have to worry about this, but in thinly planted tanks and new tanks you need to use organic removers, bigger water changes, to reduce any nh3 that might develop if the bio-filter and/or plant uptake isn't enough. I've always over-dosed ferts some and never have issues with algae as long as the organic content in the water is low.


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## shift (Jan 7, 2013)

Well i guess I'll try a bunch of larger water changes and hope the shrimp
Don't mind  at least it will reset the water a bit. Stock is "low" in respect to only 4 ottos. But tons of shrimp!


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

I think if you are triggering bba with dirty conditions alone, you are courting every other kind of algae including BGA .


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

I've seen BBA in all levels of light. I've done some work on indoor ponds in the past where the lighting was extremely low, but organics very high and there was BBA everywhere and no other algae types. 

Aquarium shops (that don't specialize in plant) typically feature setups with no plants, high fish load, low light and the BBA is everywhere. It's on the filters inside the tanks, even on the cheesy ornaments they are trying to sell.


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## shift (Jan 7, 2013)

I have six crystals with eggs so far so I don't what to do anything two drastic but I am a little lax on water changes so high organics in the water may be the culprit


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## Termato (Apr 12, 2012)

If you have some time, this thread has a lot of information on this very subject: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/11-fertilizers-water-parameters/996506-high-nutrients-promote-algae-growth-toxic-aquatic-life.html


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

shift said:


> I have six crystals with eggs so far so I don't what to do anything two drastic but I am a little lax on water changes so high organics in the water may be the culprit


Absolutely it's not worth risking the shrimp over. Definitely don't run your co2 over night if they shrimp aren't used to that. Consistent co2 is really only during the day time hours. Most turn it on an hour or so before lights come on and it goes off with the lights, but again I wouldn't mess with it.

The BBA will usually attach itself to slow growing plants and other objects in the tank first. I would trim as much of those affected leaves off the Anubias and see if you can get some new growth going


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## klibs (May 1, 2014)

dzega said:


> try to not clean filter and not change water for a few months then :wink2:


+1 I get BBA more often when my tank is dirty

Also agree that whatever you do it is not worth losing those shrimp lol. They look quite valuable


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## SwampGremlin (Dec 5, 2014)

i recived a healthy dose of bba in my low light pressurized co2 tank as soon as i stopped running co2 in the tank for good. then it went away on its own after two months. But i also didnt dose anymore either. Are those crystal red shrimp? I Would say jam the co2 (just a hunch) from my limited experience but I dont think crystals like CO2 that much.but if you have cherry shrimp slowly increase co2. When i first started planted tanks i always thought i had enough co2 because my drop checker was yellow but after i got a ph meter i found i was no where near the amount of co2 I could put in the tank.look up the co2 kh relative graph this helped me alot to see how much co2 i really had in ppm unlike a drop checker. You may already know all these things but im just trying to help out. In a Co2 tank Co2 is deffinatley your freind the more the better up until fish gasp then its time to ease up.

From what ive been told when recieving my crs sss is that no co2 no ferts no salts just anplain low light planted tank with minimal dosing and no co2 so that what i did and the shrimp are thriving excellently. But im not and expert im just sharing my experience


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## shift (Jan 7, 2013)

I know breeding and and a pretty planted tank don't go hand in hand but i like to find a way! More water changes is about my only safe bet. No could up the co2 a bit or use excel (may avoid excel). And see what happens. 

My filtration bas a few small water falls so lots of the co2 should get gassed off as well. Lots of surface agitation (marine tank)
and yes all crystal shrimp. 60+ and lots on the way. I have some dream blues coming tomorrow as well!

Looks like a trim and a filter clean is in my list for tonight


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

shift said:


> Hmm
> I use pressurized co2 but in sure it's a swing between night and day. Any suggestion how how to remedy this?


If you mean, how to avoid the swing between CO2 concentration from day to night to day, that isn't important at all. At night the plants are not in need of carbon, so very little needs to be available. It is the CO2 concentration during the photoperiod that should be kept the same every day. People start the CO2 an hour or so before the lights come on, just to help maintain the same concentration every day.

If you don't have high light, the plants don't need as much CO2, so you can run a lower bubble rate than if you had high light. With that lower bubble rate the fish can easily tolerate having CO2 going at night, so you can run the CO2 24 hours a day. It wastes CO2, but as far as I know it doesn't do any harm.

Bump:


Solcielo lawrencia said:


> But it's an interesting question: Why would varying CO2 levels cause BBA? There's a correlation sometimes, but that doesn't make it causal.


Plants adjust the enzymes they produce according to the availability of CO2. (Rubisco, I think, is the CO2 user enzyme). That takes some time and energy that the plants could have used for building tissue. So, the variable amount of CO2 could just be making the plants less robust, and an easier prey for algae. Also, evolution may have adapted BBA to start growing when there is a big drop in CO2 concentration, because that may have signaled the arrival of good algae growing season. I don't think the exact reason is known, but an awful lot of us have seen it happen.


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## shift (Jan 7, 2013)

So am I better to run it 24/7 at a lower rate?


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## DennisSingh (Nov 8, 2004)

Had to say it....No ones noticed your red glossostigma!!!


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## shift (Jan 7, 2013)

Haha nitrogen deficiency I think!? That what got me to decide to dose again. Normally I try to stick to root tabs so less crap in the water for shrimplets!


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

As Hoppy explained, the plants don't need CO2 at night while they are burning oxygen (similar to a human)...
People switch on the CO2 before the end of the dark period, so the CO2 can reach the desired level for the day, before the lights go on, this prevents a slow ramping up of CO2 as the plants won't be using it while you are trying to get the levels up. I think the switching it off before dark, is less necessary as the CO2 level will taper off while it is not required by the plants anyway.

My policy has always been oxygen first (it even reduces anaerobic disease causing bacteria), and then add CO2... I.e. don't compromise oxygen level to save on $5 worth of CO2.

I never let my tanks get dirty enough fort that to be a trigger....


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## dzega (Apr 22, 2013)

excel (gutaraldehyde) is an algaecide wich fights BBA decently good. recommended daily dose usually prevent new BBA, but not killing old one. just a thought..
and im with others on the shrimp subject, they are gorgeous, whatever you do, dont compromise theyr comfort.

EDIT, there is another shrip safe algaecide - easylife algexit. it is basically an aspirin solution.


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

Tetra also makes a range of nice algaecides, Algumin for when algae is in early stage, contains mostly humic substances, so it will make your water brown... Algetin, prevents new algae forming and Algizit for emergency algae stop.
Algumin has been on the market since the 60s, they know their algae products.


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## shift (Jan 7, 2013)

I have spot treated with hydrogen peroxide which seeks to kill it. Is it lots of little battles.

I do have a bottle of excel I could dose but don't fully trust it with the shrimplets. Does anyone dose excel with out issues to baby shrimp?

Haven't heard of Algexit /algetin./ algumin. but I'll look into them.


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