# Can you pump a sump w/ a canister filter?



## steppin16 (Nov 11, 2006)

The better question would be, what are the issues with pumping a sump using a canister filter. 

I just bought U tube overflow box to get rid of the junk at the top of my tank. I thought that insted of using its own pump that I may be able to get away with pumping it with the canister filter.

the canister filter output is in the tank, the overflow box brings the water to the sump, and the canister filter intake is in the sump, which goes back to the filter. 

As of now it seems to be workng fine, but could there be any issues with this setup?


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Main issue IMO is that a canister filter isn't made to lift water several feet. In normal operation, there is zero head for a canister filter. The pump isn't strong enough to work in spec as a sump pump, but if the reduced output is sufficient, go for it. Possible that life of the pump will be somewhat affected.


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

I'd get a real pump for the sump and use the canister on either the tank or the sump alone. As soon as the canister starts to get a little occluded you are going to run in to problems.


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## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

Some have done this before, I might try and dig up the pics. He used a powerhead in the sump and plumbed it into the intake of the canister, basically running both of them in series. The problem I see is that the canister will have a hard time priming without being below the tank, I assume running it with another pump in the sump forces the prime as to get around that problem.

Edit> ok here it is, look at the pic in this post http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/equipment/41638-diy-sump-design-need-some-opinions.html#post366311


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

If the canister shuts off is there a check valve to keep the aquarium full and the sump not overflowing?


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

SCMurphy said:


> If the canister shuts off is there a check valve to keep the aquarium full and the sump not overflowing?


Wouldn't that not be a problem as long as the sump is big enough? 

I also agree on using a pump... But I don't exactly understand what you mean... If the power shuts off the water isn't being brought back up, so it can't flow back down to the sump, Right?

-Andrew


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## BlueRam (Sep 21, 2004)

Fish Newb said:


> Wouldn't that not be a problem as long as the sump is big enough?
> 
> I also agree on using a pump... But I don't exactly understand what you mean... If the power shuts off the water isn't being brought back up, so it can't flow back down to the sump, Right?
> 
> -Andrew


The post by SCMurphy points out two bad things that can happen. With the power off the canister will return syphon until A) the siphon is broken by the spray bar or B) the tank empties to the level of the highest intake/return.

This can lead 1) the canister burning out as it might not prime or 2) the results of #1 plus lots of water on the floor. 

So use your equipment as intended. Either a canister and a sump or the canister on the sump.


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## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

SCMurphy said:


> If the canister shuts off is there a check valve to keep the aquarium full and the sump not overflowing?


If you were referring to the diagram I linked to then yes there is a check valve shown. Not sure what the big deal is there though, its a cheap part not sure why anyone would really want to chance it without, unless you atleast have a siphon break hole near the surface. There like under $10 at your local hardware store or you can get the fancy clear aquarium ones for about double that online. Actually my local Lowes has 1 1/4" check valves for under a buck! Looks like there clearencing them out. The system really doesnt work any different than it would otherwise. But if it were me I'd just use an appropriate sized return pump and plumb in a non powered canister in the return like an ocean clear or lifegaurd.


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## BlueRam (Sep 21, 2004)

crazy loaches said:


> If you were referring to the diagram I linked to then yes there is a check valve shown.
> []
> The system really doesnt work any different than it would otherwise. But if it were me I'd just use an appropriate sized return pump and plumb in a no powered canister in the return like an ocean clear or lifeguard.


The question is if the original post is using a check valve. This detail is not explicitly mentioned. The anti-siphon could be a problem if the filter runs dry.

I agree that plumbing a un-powered canister filter inline is a good alternative. I have a dead 404 waiting for just this purpose.


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

BlueRam said:


> The post by SCMurphy points out two bad things that can happen. With the power off the canister will return syphon until A) the siphon is broken by the spray bar or B) the tank empties to the level of the highest intake/return.
> 
> This can lead 1) the canister burning out as it might not prime or 2) the results of #1 plus lots of water on the floor.
> 
> So use your equipment as intended. Either a canister and a sump or the canister on the sump.


Now I see what he was saying... I understand completely! 

-Andrew


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## steppin16 (Nov 11, 2006)

Thanks for the imput. My sump is on a shelf so my intake line is maybe only 1.5' under its org. position, the flow is nearly the same. I'll risk the wear and tear on the filter. I did consider reverse syphon, by positioning the spray bar right below the surface, but did not consider that the filter could burn out, so thank you, I will search for a check valve asap. Does floval make one for their equiptment that will fit on the lines?


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