# ADA 45-F : My first Aquascaping project!



## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Great hardscape!

Looking forward to seeing how your tank progresses. 

What kind of filters are you considering? I've used a small Eheim on my 45-F and liked it a lot.


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## SECollector (Jul 28, 2019)

somewhatshocked said:


> Great hardscape!
> 
> Looking forward to seeing how your tank progresses.
> 
> What kind of filters are you considering? I've used a small Eheim on my 45-F and liked it a lot.


Thank you so much!

I haven't really decided which filter I will go for, but I have had my eyes on the ADA Super Jet ES-150 because I really like the look, both of the filter and the lily pipes that come with it. Its pricey but its a one time cost (if I don't manage to break the pipes, that is). I need to look a bit more into the Eheim line-up. Thanks for your tip!


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## JBigz (Jul 11, 2018)

That's a great start! Following! 

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


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## SECollector (Jul 28, 2019)

It's been years since I last used my Canon DSLR and it felt like time to take it out. Just a couple of test shots to get it warm. It will be fun shooting the HC Cuba 










I also got a Garden Mat for the cabinet.


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## SECollector (Jul 28, 2019)

I have been thinking about the plants and I decided that I do want to add something more than just the HC Cuba, to give some depth and diversity. I want to get some experience with other plants as well. 

My thoughts are to add a small bunch of *Rotala indica* in the back left side of the main rock that will hopefully become a dense bush adding some contrast and hopefully some red accents if it shoots reddish tops.

Then I decided to add some *Hemianthus glomeratus* in at least some parts of the background as a dense bush, higher than the HC but lower than the Rotala Indica to give some depth.










Any thoughts on this? Will these plants fit in such a small tank without destroying the sense of scale? I went for plants with minimum sized leafs since keeping the scale is one of my top priorities. These can also theoretically work well with a dry start and will hopefully help with algae after flooding. Any ideas are more than welcome!


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Nice setup! You'll be doing a lot of trimming with the Rotala Indica with such a shallow tank. I would let the rocks be the stars and go with something shorter like Blyxa Japonica for areas of the midground or background for that height tank or you can go with hairgrass as well.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

This tank is only 6.3in/16cm high, so Blyxa likely isn't a good fit. It routinely gets 8 or so inches tall and spreads quite a bit. It can quickly develop root systems in a tiny tank that become problematic if you need to remove or trim a lot.

Rotala indica 'bonsai' would be a good fit because it's relatively easy to keep trimmed and its root system isn't as huge as Blyxa. It's generally easy to keep and when planted, trimmed & replanted, develops a bushy appearance. I find it to be smaller than other Rotala and Bacopa. In a tank this shallow, it'll make for a nice mid/background plant.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

I've used Blxya J. extensively so I'll disagree with you based on my experience. It's a very manageable plant and can always be reduced if it ever does grow to tall. Stems on the other hand will reach the top every week. I've used Blxya in nanos for years and they haven't gotten to 8".


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## SECollector (Jul 28, 2019)

Thank you for your input guys!



Asteroid said:


> Nice setup! You'll be doing a lot of trimming with the Rotala Indica with such a shallow tank. I would let the rocks be the stars and go with something shorter like Blyxa Japonica for areas of the midground or background for that height tank or you can go with hairgrass as well.


Blyxa Japonica was (and is) in my list with plants to consider. It's not going to happen in this phase however since I will start dry and, if what I have read is correct, that plant can only be grown submersed. 



somewhatshocked said:


> Rotala indica 'bonsai' would be a good fit because it's relatively easy to keep trimmed and its root system isn't as huge as Blyxa. It's generally easy to keep and when planted, trimmed & replanted, develops a bushy appearance. I find it to be smaller than other Rotala and Bacopa. In a tank this shallow, it'll make for a nice mid/background plant.


That bushy appearance is exactly what I imagined. I really have no idea how the plant will actually look in the tank, how large the leafs actually are etc but I have actually already ordered a box of both Rotala Indica and Hemianthus Glomeratus in-vitro cultures and I will probably try and see. 

Its my first project and it is going to be a huge learning curve but I would really like to get my hands on a couple of stem plants as well, in order to get familiar with the techniques of trimming, replanting etc. I am not afraid of heavy maintaining, since this is my only tank but if I see that it is not working or if I just don't get it to become as I imagine it, I can take it out later, or can I? 

Having a stem plant in place when I flood will hopefully help with potential algae problems, so I see this as a plus at least during that first stage.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Since you only have about 2 inches of clearance in in the rear of the tank - maybe 3 - Blyxa is definitely going to be tricky because of its height. Since you have strong lighting, good substrate and will be fertilizing, it won't have any trouble getting to 6-8 inches (15-20cm) it can grow to... and has for me on a regular basis. Also has for other members but I digress. It's also problematic in tiny, high-tech tanks if you aren't experienced because of the way it propagates. It sends out tons of runners and routinely has to be pulled up when it gets too large/there's too much of it in your tank. Which will happen because you don't have a ton of substrate area that's not taken up by your gorgeous hardscape. It's not as simple as just trimming like you would with a stem plant or HC.

Leaves of Rotala 'bonsai' are tiny compared to other Rotala varieties. There are plenty of tank journals here with photos of it in bushy groupings that look exactly the way you envision. It's as simple as mowing it down with scissors or snapping stems off with your fingernails when it gets too tall. Just replant the snipped off parts or share them with other hobbyists once you have the amount you want in the tank. 



SECollector said:


> That bushy appearance is exactly what I imagined. I really have no idea how the plant will actually look in the tank, how large the leafs actually are etc but I have actually already ordered a box of both Rotala Indica and Hemianthus Glomeratus in-vitro cultures and I will probably try and see.
> 
> Its my first project and it is going to be a huge learning curve but I would really like to get my hands on a couple of stem plants as well, in order to get familiar with the techniques of trimming, replanting etc. I am not afraid of heavy maintaining, since this is my only tank but if I see that it is not working or if I just don't get it to become as I imagine it, I can take it out later, or can I?
> 
> Having a stem plant in place when I flood will hopefully help with potential algae problems, so I see this as a plus at least during that first stage.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

somewhatshocked said:


> ... It's also problematic in tiny, high-tech tanks if you aren't experienced because of the way it propagates. It sends out tons of runners and routinely has to be pulled up when it gets too large/there's too much of it in your tank..


Are we talking about the same plant SWS? Blyxa does not sent out runners, it's actually a stem plant. This is from the same article you attached.

"tfhmagazine - Propagation: B. japonica is well behaved in the planted aquarium. Growth is modest, and it does not send out a profusion of runners like many other grassy species. Every few months, individual plants can be uprooted and gently separated at the connection points of the stem structure."

What I like about this plant is you can separate them and use the smaller stems and it still keeps a mature look to the aquarium.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Yep, same plant. "Runners" is a poor term but that's kind of what they are. Just as other stem plants can propagate at their base but both at a faster rate and with substantially larger/deeper root systems when it spreads - and it does spread. Grows really well in Aqua Soil, high light, lots of ferts. Maybe too well? Because it grows like crazy for me with just Aqua Soil, no CO2 and light-moderate fertilization. 

Not a good fit in just 2-3 inches of water. Maybe in something like 10 inches of water. Take a look at some of these photos to see why I mention depths like that. It may work in a tank that's about 8 inches tall but it would definitely have to be a background plant and there couldn't be much in terms of sloping, substrate couldn't be too deep. 

The 45-F is one of the most shallow tanks available on the hobbyist market and it's tough to plant if you don't constantly keep scale in mind. I can barely keep it in check. Here's a look at how some of the shorter Cryptocoryne varieties will almost grow out of the water:


























The wood sticking out of the water is just under 5.5 inches tall.

On a related note - I want that 3 foot rimless tank, @Asteroid. It's way nicer than the 12gal long I've got.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

All based on one's prespective. I don't doubt the potential for it to reach 8". I was actually describing it's usage to OP as a possible background plant, but either way I have always found it easy to manage. I also have always grown it in AS but with co2 and it grows very dense and compact. Because it doesn't send runners all over the place like other grass like plants I always found it easy to remove and replant with some of the smaller side stems. 

Yeah I'm really enjoying the dimensions of the 12g thanks. Easy to manage and gives the appearance of a large setup.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

What? Yes, of course based on my perspective and some reading comprehension to discern what OP is asking and why. That's what a discussion forum is - a place for discussion based on knowledge and first-hand experience. 

Take a look at the OP's tank. Consider its measurements. Now consider Blyxa japonica and its size. It's not a 1-2 inch plant. It develops substantial root systems compared to the basic/beginner plants they mention. It's not that complicated. 

Consider the OP's predicament: they're new, they have a tank so shallow that basic, low crypts are generally too tall as even a *background* plant. The OP has 2-3 inches of room in the back of the tank - in the deepest section of the rear slope. And even less than that in the highest section of the slope, where they'll have less than 2 inches of room for growth height. That's so shallow that C. Parva, HC, even Marsilea minuta would look like tall background plants.

Regardless, OP can use the search function or fire up their googler to see the size of Blyxa. They can read and see how it grows and propagates. Fortunately, they've made sensible, low-growing plant choices - along with one of the tiniest Rotala options available - for their new tank and can explore other plants as they progress into the hobby.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

What I meant by perspective is that everyone looks at things somewhat differently. For the Blyxa if and when it does grow to large I have no problem separating the smaller new plants and leaving those in. Since it is a stem it's not an invasive species that well end up all over the tank like other grassy looking plants. 

I have used the plant alot so I'm talking from my own experience and what I find acceptable. Here's a few pics of a simple Mini S I used the plant in. These two pics are taken around 7 weeks apart.


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## SECollector (Jul 28, 2019)

Really nice tank Asteroid! So simple, but strong layout. I love it. And SWS thank you very much for your input. Yes, things and opinions depend on perspective and own experience, of course. I really appreciate your guys insights - its one thing reading facts about a plant, and another hearing others first hand experiences. That what was I hoping for when I started this journal.

Here comes an update!

My HC Cuba arrived today, happily on a day off from work, so of course I have already worked with it. Boy, everything is tougher than it seems on videos and tutorials lol. From keeping the substrate on place, to preparing the bunches and placing them, to even knowing whether the plant looks as it is supposed to look. Everything is new but its fun. 

Anyway, I did manage to prepare it as I was hopefully supposed and transformed two in-vitro cultivations to small bunches that got planted in the tank. I have watered carefully and sparsely the substrate and sealed it. I used what I got and what I managed to get in a useable bunch, but I think its ok. And now my hopes are that everything doesn't die by tomorrow lol. 

I should have the Hemianthus glomeratus and Rotala indica by tomorrow, so I will sleep on how and whether I will using them.

Here are some photos:


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

@Asteroid: The Mini S is about 10 inches tall. Nearly twice the height of the 45-F. That's why it works well in a tank like that. 
@SECollector: Looks like you've got a good start with planting. As the HC begins to grow - and if it's not thickening up as you'd like - you can always break those clumps down into smaller portions. But good start. Just make sure to keep everything misted and damp. Typically, you'd want a water level just beneath the surface of the substrate if you're doing a dry start or have to wait a couple days before adding other plants. But in a tank like that, it'd be tough without tilting and potentially messing up the hardscape. So misting will definitely be the way to go. 

Looking forward to seeing how your scape progresses.


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## SECollector (Jul 28, 2019)

somewhatshocked said:


> Looks like you've got a good start with planting. As the HC begins to grow - and if it's not thickening up as you'd like - you can always break those clumps down into smaller portions. But good start. Just make sure to keep everything misted and damp. Typically, you'd want a water level just beneath the surface of the substrate if you're doing a dry start or have to wait a couple days before adding other plants. But in a tank like that, it'd be tough without tilting and potentially messing up the hardscape. So misting will definitely be the way to go.
> 
> Looking forward to seeing how your scape progresses.


Thanks! I watered until the substrate from all the sides of the tank was visibly wet, from top to bottom. In order to do this, I actually did need to carefully tilt the tank backwards and keep it so for a moment, to get the water from the lower level back to the deeper substrate. I then picked up the small amount of water that remained over the surface in the front lower level, so I think it should work with sparse misting when I notice that there is not enough condensation on the walls.

The timer is set on a 12-hour photoperiod by the way. I have read different opinions, but I think 12 hours would make sense for this phase.

Would you recommend splitting the clumps of HC to smaller ones and go for a more even and tight distribution on the surface or would I be better leaving it as it is? I have left some free space on the back, in case I add the other two plants I have on my way, but maybe I should get some HC even there?

Here is the upper view: 










@Asteroid: Thank you for your input about the lily pipes in my other thread. I will definitely be picking two pairs for the reasons you mentioned. I will actually get two different pairs that I have in mind, to see in first hand which ones suit the tank best.

Thanks again for checking out guys, all help and feedback is really appreciated!


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

If it were me, I'd split the clumps up into smaller portions. Plant in an alternating grid pattern. Since you haven't yet flooded, it'll be easy to do and won't take much time. 

I'd also leave space open in the back because you plan to include other plants.


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## SECollector (Jul 28, 2019)

Cheers! I will most probably go for it tomorrow when I get a couple of kids-free hours.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Moving on from the Blyxa debate, I do agree with SWS with the smaller groups. It does seem to grow better that way, especially once flooded as more light will get in to each plant. I've actually never done a dry start, but have done several HC tanks believe it or not, stem by stem, not even groups. Took a while but it grew in really great. 

Once you flood, and I'm sure you will it's very important to have your co2 dialed in. Keep up with regular water changes, you could probably never do enough with new aquasoil and reduce your light period. These will all prevent an algae outbreak.


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## SECollector (Jul 28, 2019)

@Asteroid Respect for planting Cuba stem by stem. Seriously, I have trouble splitting them and planting in small groups - I can't even imagine the skills and patience needed to do what you did. As said, this is much harder for me than I imagined after watching videos of planting it. Its a matter of experience I guess and it will hopefully work out, but I am really afraid that I am damaging the roots when splitting in small groups and planting. 

Does this look better?










And yes, about CO2 : I am already planning my system and hopefully I will get it within a couple of weeks along with my filter, pipes and fertilisers so that everything is ready and tuned for when it gets wet in there.


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## Willcooper (May 31, 2015)

This looks like it should be good! I love this stage of aquascaping, the initial planting. So fun. Rotala indica is pretty forgiving with learning to trim. Dennis Wong has a decent little video on keeping stem plants trimmed. 





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SECollector (Jul 28, 2019)

@Willcooper Thank you for the video. I have actually watched this before a couple of times. Its so satisfying and soothing to watch, lol.

*In other news: *
I received my two new plants today (Hemianthus glomeratus & Rotala indica) and both were unfortunately not in the best condition. Parts of the Rotala were melted and the HG was yellow all through the container below the first row of surface leaves). I got to get a pretty good bunch of pretty healthy Rotala to plant, but I really dont want to kick start my first tank with yellowed HG so I have sent them a note and I will see what they say.

The HC Cuba I got from them had also melted parts by the way and I ended up trashing a bit of that as well, so I have now ordered a bit more from a store here, to add some more.

Lesson learnt: try to purchase plants from local shops rather than ordering from another EU country (even if it took only a day to get them here).


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Sorry to hear about the plants.

But for the Rotala, you should be able to easily trim off the tops and plant them. Even if the lower portions look rough. They'll likely take root. So don't throw everything out if you have some you're unsure about.

As for shipping plants... most retailers and other hobbyists should be able to insulate their packages and provide cooling/ice packs to assist. Don't let this experience totally discourage you.


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## SECollector (Jul 28, 2019)

@somewhatshocked This is what I have actually done already with the largest portion of the Rotala, since I didn't need all of it anyway and the stems were not tiny. It should probably work out and it doesn't look that bad trimmed and planted (except a few yellow leaves). I am not sure it would be that easy to do something similar with the HG though, because the stems are really really small and I don't have the experience nor the patience to do it.

No discouragement here - not yet anyway, lol.


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## SECollector (Jul 28, 2019)

*Just a follow-up about the yellowish plants: *

Aquasabi (a really awesome on-line shop in Germany, where I have ordered all my equipment and plants from until now) showcased some amazing customer service and promptly offered to send me replacements. I actually even asked them to replace the Hemianthus glomeratus with another package of HC Cuba instead, since I decided to go only for the HC Cuba and the Rotala Indica for now, and they were happy to do this for me. So I should be adding some more Cuba and Rotala tomorrow.

Three or four bunches of Cuba have unfortunately have more or less died (they look dry, yellow or brownish). They were probably not in the best shape when I added them and I am not sure if I planted them optimally, so I will replace them with some fresh, healthy stems. I am positive that this is not a sign of a general issue with the set-up, since all of the others seem to adapt well and appear fresh and healthy, so I am hopeful. Its all part of the learning curve I guess and I love the process anyway, with the ups and downs.

*Some thoughts about my future CO2 - system:*

I have done my research and got to know the basics of the different parts of the system, their role and how they are supposed to be connected with each other, in what order and with what kind of tubing. But there is so much more to learn and I am seriously considering to start with a complete set, to get me started in a simple and efficient way. 

I know that someone with some more experience can get together a more effective system with less money than what the ADA CO2 Advanced System cost, but I will most probably go for this and add a solenoid valve. From my understanding is that an ADA CO2 capsule lasts approx. for a month so this is not optimal but not a huge deal breaker either. Any other recommendations are of course more than welcome.


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## Jamo33 (Feb 18, 2014)

Honestly mate, you could find a much cheaper unit of similar ability online. The ongoing costs of buying those capsules would be unnecessary to say the least. Best to get yourself a 2kg tank, a co2 regulator with bubble counter incorporated, and then a simple diffuser (ada even). That tank will probably last you close to a year I would say, speculation but it is possible. There are plenty of other places to buy co2 gear than ADA. I appreciate everything they do for the hobby and they produce quality gear...but at extortionary prices.


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## harris611 (Sep 5, 2018)

Dude...I love this.


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## SECollector (Jul 28, 2019)

@harris611 Thanks for checking out man! 

@Jamo33 Thanks for your reply! I am aware of that. It's not that I need to get the ADA system, its that it feels like the most foolproof method for me at this stage, being a total newbie. I just don't feel confident enough to compile myself a system and take in consideration all the hundreds of things that could potentially go wrong (that I probably don't even know about lol). I keep researching - hopefully I will work something out that is more cost-effective and of at least the same quality.

*An update: *

My HC Cuba replacement arrived and I have added some more clumps in the tank. It is pretty densely planted now and I hope to see some growth soon. The clumps that I considered lost until yesterday have actually recovered and look much healthier today, so I kept them. I may add some more Rotala and I am still considering whether I will keep it just on the rear left side or if I will add some more on the right rear corner.


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## SECollector (Jul 28, 2019)

*(Almost) a week later: *

A small update almost a week later. I have had the tank on a 12 hours light cycle. I open daily the seal at least two times for around 20-30 minutes and spray a small quantity of fresh water on the plants. This very small quantity of fresh water is supposedly just enough to replace the quantity that evaporates / escapes during this period of time.

The same day after my last update, I moved around two clumps of Cuba (moved them to the right rear corner and planted some more stems of Rotala Indica on the left corner and behind the main stone instead.

My expectations weren't that high to begin with - I was mostly hoping that not everything would melt. But I see growth with new tiny plants and stems every day, so I am really happy. I am not in a hurry to fill the tank, I want the plants to hopefully have an established root system before I go for it. 

In the meantime I obsess over CO2 regulators and contemplating whether I should go for the ADA Super Jet ES-150 filter or the Eheim 150. I am also combing the net for a nice inflow lily pipe that will fit properly in such a shallow tank. And trying to be a step ahead and refresh everything I once knew about the different water parameters as well as studying about fertilisers. So much to learn and plan and so much fun. I am probably overthinking everything, but at least I have fun doing so.

My cabinet should arrive later this week or next week, so the tank will be moving to its permanent place hopefully soon.

*Here are two before and after pics:*










A detail (with red dots the place where I added the new Cuba clumps the day after):










And an updated front shot:


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## Janci (Aug 21, 2019)

SECollector said:


> *(Almost) a week later: *
> 
> A small update almost a week later. I have had the tank on a 12 hours light cycle. I open daily the seal at least two times for around 20-30 minutes and spray a small quantity of fresh water on the plants. This very small quantity of fresh water is supposedly just enough to replace the quantity that evaporates / escapes during this period of time.
> 
> ...


That looks amazing.
Very good dry start and growth


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

The rotala looks better than I thought it would.

You may have taken a ten year break but you've obviously got this whole aquascaping thing down. The tank is going to look great once everything is grown in. The stone you've used will look gorgeous when submerged.


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## SECollector (Jul 28, 2019)

@JanciThank you so much man. Cheers!

@somewhatshocked Yeah, the Rotala is a really sweet little plant and I trimmed away the melted parts, planted mostly only healthy looking stems and it is going well. I had loads of it since Aquasabi sent me a replacement pack as well, so this should do the work. I see already stems with new roots on the tops, that I would be able to trim and replant, but I will probably wait until I flood the tank. 

And thank you so much for your kind words and every advice you have provided by now, it helps more than you probably think. My last time within the hobby was more or less just about the fish. Once I had for many years a 200L aquarium with a single Oscar fish and a pleco. The Oscar got really big and he was literally my pet - and he was behaving as such as well lol. I also kept discus for a couple of years. I breeded guppies pretty successfully also for a while. It was so fun but honestly, after at least 10 years and two kids, it feels like it was in another life lol. So yes, I am frankly a newbie.

*Question about the HC Cuba:*

Is it considered safe or is it a "thing" to... help the plant spread out during the dry start period? I noticed that many of the clumps became very dense and thick but just started spreading out with runners. My poor planting technique was probably partly to blame, or maybe this is totally normal as well. What I tried today in a part of the tank was to gently spread them a bit with my hands and tweezers and even separate some new stems and move them between the larger clumps. Do people actually do this, or is it a no-no and I should just keep my hands off and let it alone?

Here is how it looks today (you guys can see how it looked yesterday a couple of posts above):


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## SECollector (Jul 28, 2019)

I received my cabinet yesterday so my tank is now in place. It is an overpriced ADA plain cabinet 45 but it suits me great for the dimensions and the intended place in the apartment. I hadn't seen any other photos of it other than the official product photos by ADA, but it is nice and simple and really sturdy, so I try to forget the price tag and I am happy with it. The sides are open, so it is crucial to have everything really neatly placed down there, which will be a project per se. 




















*In other news: *

*CO2 System*
I will probably not be flooding the tank for a month more or so, but I finally pulled the trigger (at some point I really needed to stop overthinking about this) and ordered a CO2Art PRO-SE SERIES Dual Stage regulator, with a SodaStream adapter and the whole set-up. From what I read CO2Art should be good enough to get me started with CO2. I went for a DOOA bubble counter and a DOOA CO2 Mini Diffuser J. I was (and still am) contemplating whether I should go for an in-line diffuser, but had a hard time to find one that will fit 10 mm tubing and have promising reviews. I will start with the DOOA diffuser and think over it down the road. 

*Filter*
I also ordered an ADA Super Jet Filter ES-150. Since the sides of the cabinet are open, design is an important aspect over here, so I went for the sexy one. I have my eyes on an inflow glass pipe that is short enough to fit nicely in my shallow glass (Cal Aqua Labs Inflow X1s) but still waiting it to get back in stock at the only EU shop I could locate it. For outflow, the included ADA Lily Pipe Spin P-1 should do the job.

Now its a waiting game until the CO2 stuff arrive and I start setting it up and testing to make sure that everything is ready to run on the D-day!


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## Jamo33 (Feb 18, 2014)

Are you even sure you want to flood at this rate? Tank looks amazing and you're getting some awesome growth there!


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## SECollector (Jul 28, 2019)

Jamo33 said:


> Are you even sure you want to flood at this rate? Tank looks amazing and you're getting some awesome growth there!


I honestly wonder the same lol. I will be really bummed if I flood and manage to destroy it. I will take my time, let it establish, keep my fingers crossed and get this going in some weeks.


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## Jamo33 (Feb 18, 2014)

SECollector said:


> Jamo33 said:
> 
> 
> > Are you even sure you want to flood at this rate? Tank looks amazing and you're getting some awesome growth there!
> ...


I'm just messing around Haha. It looks phenomenal and I am sure you will nail it with it being flooded. Once the co2 comes you've got the most important part for the transition anyway!


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Looks good!

The method of diffusion is merely preference as they all work. Some might be more efficient then others, but co2 is inexpensive so efficiency really isn't as important as you would think.

If you want to stay ADA then stick with in-tank diffusion. That's all they do. In tank also is a good visual check to make sure it's working in addition to using drop checkers and monitoring PH changes.


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## SECollector (Jul 28, 2019)

Asteroid said:


> Looks good!
> 
> The method of diffusion is merely preference as they all work. Some might be more efficient then others, but co2 is inexpensive so efficiency really isn't as important as you would think.
> 
> If you want to stay ADA then stick with in-tank diffusion. That's all they do. In tank also is a good visual check to make sure it's working in addition to using drop checkers and monitoring PH changes.


In-line diffusion means one less visible tube and pipe and probably a bit easier maintenance rather than having to clean the glass pipes once in a while or breaking them. But on the other hand, those elegant pipes are not distracting, so I will most probably stick with it indeed and exactly as you say have a better visual check on its condition. Thanks for the input!


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

SECollector said:


> In-line diffusion means one less visible tube and pipe and probably a bit easier maintenance rather than having to clean the glass pipes once in a while or breaking them. But on the other hand, those elegant pipes are not distracting, so I will most probably stick with it indeed and exactly as you say have a better visual check on its condition. Thanks for the input!


And I thought you were ADA through and though LOL. Your right each method works and each method has adv/disadv. I'm like you I like minimum equipment in tank although the diffuser never bothered me I guess because it's glass like the pipes. In tank you will have to clean it with 50/50 bleach/water from time to time, but it's pretty easy to do and you do it during a water change and it's done. 

In-line you don't see it which i mentioned is good and bad, but it's also a potential leak area if it breaks or gets disconnected some how.


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## SECollector (Jul 28, 2019)

@Asteroid Lol. Well to be honest, getting in touch with ADA products for the first time was kind of a reason to get back into the hobby after so many years. The last time I was in the hobby, pipes were ugly, filters were a distraction from the tank and the lights were just lights - not sexy pieces of technology and almost art. I honestly don't know really if ADA is the one to give credit to for the direction the equipment has taken, but I fall in love with a lot of stuff they make.

Having said that, I try to do some research as well and not go all in ADA, just for the sake of it. And speaking of that, I received my CO2 system from CO2Art during the last couple of days. I have connected the regulator through an adapter to a Sodastream bottle and got it adjusted and tested. I connected it to a DOOA bubble counter and I will let it run for a couple of hours to see if it remains consistent. My plan is to get it ready, switch it off and let it sit there until I flood the tank.










I also tested my tap water today, to have an idea of what I have to deal with and I got these results:

ΚΗ: 4 dH
GH: 6 dH
pH: 7,5
NH4: <0,05 mg/l
N02: <0,01 mg/l
NO3: 1 mg/l
PO4: <0.02 mg/l


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

To me ADA (Amano) is to minimalist equipment what Apple (Jobs) is/was to smart phones. They exploded out the market. 

Didn't the co2 regulator have a bubble counter? Either way the DOOA one fits right in.


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## SECollector (Jul 28, 2019)

Asteroid said:


> To me ADA (Amano) is to minimalist equipment what Apple (Jobs) is/was to smart phones. They exploded out the market.
> 
> Didn't the co2 regulator have a bubble counter? Either way the DOOA one fits right in.


It actually did have a counter right on the regulator, but due to space limitation (each compartment of the cabinet is only 20 cm long) I had to install the regulator vertically and so the counter would end up horizontally. So I removed it and placed instead an in-line counter instead.


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## SECollector (Jul 28, 2019)

I am testing this thing with videos and stuff lol and uploaded a short video of my tank while test running my CO2 system. 

So far so good. The CO2Art regulator looks to be doing its job.


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## SECollector (Jul 28, 2019)

*Update:*

Things have been working out pretty well with the tank during the last week. I haven't had any melts, major yellowing, mould or generally any problems (knock on wood lol). The HC has been spreading and growing daily and has more or less covered the bottom, except a few minor spots that should be covered within a few days. It seems to really love the substrate, I guess, since I haven't done anything other than keeping it on a stable lighting circle and being careful of not overwatering it. The Rotala Indica feels like home over there as well, and I have actually already trimmed a few stems and replanted so that it becomes more dense.

*A new addition:*

I couldn't help myself and ordered some in-vitro Alternanthera reineckii Mini that arrived today. I had been considering this plant right since the conception of this project and I just couldn't let it go. The portion was huge, but I planted just a bit - and I am still not 100% if I will keep it or not. I like the idea to try my hands on a red plant and have some accent of red in the tank, as well as have a slightly bigger plant mass in order to hopefully combat algae, but I don't want to disturb the rather minimalistic look of the scape too much either. What do you guys think?

*Planning ahead:*

I am planning to flood the tank within a week, as I don't really see a reason to wait more, even though I love it even without water. But the plants are rooted and it feels that the timing is right. I have been reading about the dry start method in relation to the tank cycle, and it is mentioned that the cycle is probably complete even before flooding the tank, since ammonia is being broken down already by bacteria in the substrate. I guess time will tell. I am planning to run tests during the first week, and if this is the case indeed I will be adding pretty soon a crew of 4 or 5 Amano shrimps.

I am a tiny bit confused about fertilisers, and specifically whether I should start adding K and Minerals right from the start, or if I should give it a week, since the substrate is so nutrient-rich. Any suggestions?

*Here is how the tank looks today:*










And just for fun, a couple of macro photos of the plants, starting with Cuba:










And ending with the Rotala Indica:










Until next time, thanks in advance for any suggestions, thoughts and ideas!


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

Looking good and nice pics!

As far as ferts go. You'll probably get nine different answers here, but usually with amazonia you'll want to dose K out of the gate and then micros pretty soon after. Your technically further along since you did the dry start, so once you flood I would dose K and micros. If you follow ADA dosing Brighty K is the first product dosed within the 1st week followed by micros in Step 1.


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## SECollector (Jul 28, 2019)

Asteroid said:


> Looking good and nice pics!
> 
> As far as ferts go. You'll probably get nine different answers here, but usually with amazonia you'll want to dose K out of the gate and then micros pretty soon after. Your technically further along since you did the dry start, so once you flood I would dose K and micros. If you follow ADA dosing Brighty K is the first product dosed within the 1st week followed by micros in Step 1.


Thanks! That was what I was leaning to about the fertilisers as well. Even though ADA recommends starting with Brighty K and Brighty Mineral a week after planting, when plants start growing submersed leaves. That part confused me, doing the dry start method - whether I should give them a week to get accustomed being submersed or not. I guess I can give them 3 days or 4 lol.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

I think they changed their product line some. But the minerals are traces so you can get them alot of ways. Are you using ADA ferts or just using dry ferts or Seachem?


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## SECollector (Jul 28, 2019)

Asteroid said:


> I think they changed their product line some. But the minerals are traces so you can get them alot of ways. Are you using ADA ferts or just using dry ferts or Seachem?


I will be using ADA: Brighty Neutral K, Brightly Mineral and Green Brighty Iron. That is the line I found information about, and the products that are currently available at least at the store I got them from. I honestly have no clue if they have changed them recently...


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

SECollector said:


> I will be using ADA: Brighty Neutral K, Brightly Mineral and Green Brighty Iron. That is the line I found information about, and the products that are currently available at least at the store I got them from. I honestly have no clue if they have changed them recently...


OK, then you should be good to go. I had forgotten that you weren't in the U.S. Around here many just by the Amazonia and then dose with Dry ferts or Seachem products.


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## SECollector (Jul 28, 2019)

*Update*

I flooded the tank a day after my latest update, about a week ago. It worked out really well, the plants seemed to adapt directly, and the HC Cuba really started growing wildly right from the next day. I pumped up the CO2 to make the transition as smooth as possible, and it seemed to do the trick. It now already needs a good trim, but I will give it one more week.

I decided to change a couple of things that didn’t really work perfectly in my eyes. I actually removed the Alternanthera reineckii 'Mini' (just a week after I planted it) and the Rotala indica (that I had planted right from the beginning). Especially the latter, was not an easy decision because it was really thriving and started shooting red shoots and leaves. It is a beautiful little plant. But I found both to be slightly distracting the overall minimal, serene mood I was aiming for. ⁣⁣

I decided instead to keep only my HC Cuba carpet and added a few splashes of Eleocharis acicularis Mini next to the rocks. I realise that if this establishes well, it will need very careful and regular trimming to keep it in place and not spread out too much since it propagates with runners. But I guess I will see how it goes.⁣⁣

I also elevated slightly the left slope, since there will be no stem plants there. I used substrate support to hopefully keep it in place and transplanted some Cuba from the rest of the tank to hopefully quickly fill up the newly empty space there. Overall, I like it more now and came to realise, that most of the times less is more.⁣⁣

*Water Tests:*

I have been testing every other day, before water changes. And the NH4 has been going down, while the NO2 has stayed stable during this week. I am not sure if these values make sense, but I guess NH4 being only 0.1 mg/l after a week, is a good sign.

15 September
NH4: 3 mg/l
NO2: 0,4 mg/l
NO3: 60 mg/l

17 September
NH4: 1.5 mg/l
NO2: 0.8 mg/l
NO3: 60 mg/l
PH: 6.2

19 September
NH4: 0.2 mg/l
NO2: 0.6-0.8 mg/l
NO3: 30 mg/l
PH: 6.2

21 September
NH4: 0.1 mg/l
NO2: 0.6-0.8 mg/l
NO3: 15 mg/l
PH: 6.8

Any thoughts on these values?

*An updated photo*


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## Ben Belton (Dec 12, 2008)

SECollector said:


> And the NO4 has been going down.... but I guess NO4 being only 0.1 mg/l after a week, is a good sign.


NO4? Do you mean NH4 or PO4?


Looks really good. I recently started a new tank too. I didn't do the dry start method. So far no algae for me either. I hope we both continue to do well. Your tank is nice.


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## SECollector (Jul 28, 2019)

Ben Belton said:


> NO4? Do you mean NH4 or PO4?
> 
> 
> Looks really good. I recently started a new tank too. I didn't do the dry start method. So far no algae for me either. I hope we both continue to do well. Your tank is nice.


Sorry, of course I meant NH4! Corrected. :grin2:

Good luck with your tank and let the algae stay away!


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## Janci (Aug 21, 2019)

How is the tank coming along?
Time for an update


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## SECollector (Jul 28, 2019)

Janci said:


> How is the tank coming along?
> Time for an update


Thanks for checking out! Time for an update, for sure. I have actually done some seriously major changes. 

I kept the largest part of the Cuba and added quite a few more background and midground plants. The Cuba needs trimming every two weeks. But other than that there was not really much to do with the tank than enjoy it. I needed some action going and especially wanted to try my hands on a few other plants, so I went for it.

I am not sure how this will work out, but I am learning a lot and it is a challenge. I will have some parts of the plants emersed as well.

I will post an updated photo soon. In the meantime I am working hard with trimming and replanting to get everything in shape.


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## Janci (Aug 21, 2019)

Good to hear things are going well.
I am curious to see which plants you used for emerged growth.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Looking forward to seeing what you've added!


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## SECollector (Jul 28, 2019)

somewhatshocked said:


> Looking forward to seeing what you've added!


To be honest, I added exactly what is not supposed to be added in such a shallow tank lol. 

Well, not exactly, but almost. Some of those stem plants are really fast growing and will need trimming at least once a week. But I did choose plants with small leaves to keep things in scale and I do plan to let a part of them grow emersed and keep a part submersed. I am pretty sure that everything in there, except Rotala wallichii, can grow over the water line emersed. I see this more as a (hopefully beautiful) experiment for me to see what is (and what is definitely not) working with the tank, and take it from there, probably in my next scape.

The plants have just started showing their real colors, and I am working with trimming and replanting, to make dense bushes with nice colors, so they are still pretty low (even for this tank!).

I am not really done with the scape yet, I have some thoughts and doubts, but here is what I have been (intensively) working on the last couple of weeks. Be gentle! lol










As you see, I kept a large part of the HC Cuba on the foreground, removed the bigger stones and added some driftwood with Christmas moss. A couple of Bucephalandras on the stones and the following plants:

*Foreground:*
Hemianthus Callitrichoides 
Staurogyne repens
Bucephalandra sp “Mini Needle Leaf”
Bucephalandra sp “Lamandau”

*Midground:*
Alternanthera Reineckii Mini
Riccia Fluitans (on stone using net)
Hemianthus Glomeratus

*Background:*
Rotala wallichii 
Ludwigia palustris "Super Red"
Rotala rotundifolia 'Orange Juice'
Rotala macrandra "Green / Wavy" 
Bacopa australis
Rotala sp. 'Pearl' 
Rotala Indica
Rotala rotundifolia "Periya"

*I also added some live stock:*
5 x Caridina cf. cantonensis "Crystal Red" shrimp 
3 x Amano Shrimp
10 x Galaxy Rasboras (Danio Margaritatus) - Unfortunately two performed the jump of death since I introduced them.

I am still contemplating whether to keep the driftwood or remove it and go for a plants-only scape, but it is staying for now until I get a better feeling how it works out with the plants. I am also still waiting for the Riccia to grow fully out of the net in order to see exactly what I have to work with and take it from there. 

I guess this is a total rescape, compared to my initial "Iwagumi" project. And besides, in contrast to my first scape that was immaculately planned to the last detail, I decided to let myself experiment a lot more with this one, dare to move things around and change my mind, hopefully learning as much as I can down the road. 

All in all, things have been working pretty ok until now. I haven't seen any algae yet and the tests are what I have been expecting them to be, with no real ups or downs. 

I am leaving for a trip for 5 days tomorrow and my wife will just add fertilisers and top up the water, so it will be exciting to see how it goes.


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

SECollector said:


> To be honest, I added exactly what is not supposed to be added in such a shallow tank lol.


But still no Blyxa, LOL. 

Wow that's the fastest I've seen someone get bored of an iwagumi, but I understand where your coming from and the tank looks great. There was once an article by Amano in TFH where he transformed his iwagumi into a stem-based tank. 

In regards to fish jumping. I don't know if you keep the level that high all the time or for the pic, but I have found you need minimum 1" to prevent jumpers for most smaller size fish. I haven't lost anything in 5 months in my open-top setup.


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## SECollector (Jul 28, 2019)

Asteroid said:


> But still no Blyxa, LOL.
> 
> Wow that's the fastest I've seen someone get bored of an iwagumi, but I understand where your coming from and the tank looks great. There was once an article by Amano in TFH where he transformed his iwagumi into a stem-based tank.
> 
> In regards to fish jumping. I don't know if you keep the level that high all the time or for the pic, but I have found you need minimum 1" to prevent jumpers for most smaller size fish. I haven't lost anything in 5 months in my open-top setup.


Yep... The moment I was done with my first trimming, my thought was mostly "and now what?". I really like the minimalistic look of the Iwagumi style and the complicity of a "simple" design, but at this point I just needed to get my fingers wet more often and get some more experience with other things as well. I may as well throw in some Blyxa in there now, honestly I didn't think about it when planning the new list lol.

Water level is probably the explanation, since water parameters are really good for the species. I will keep it a bit lower. Thank you!


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Those plants in the background are terrific! Glad you avoided Blyxa - ha.

As for jumpers... I've never been able to keep any sort of fish in my 45-F that didn't jump. It's just too shallow. Same for the 60. Even if I added a 5-6cm acrylic ledge/rim around the top. You may find yourself having to cover the tank or going shrimp-only if they don't settle down.

Note: The ledge/rim _has_ helped stop shrimp from jumping from my rimless tanks.


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## SECollector (Jul 28, 2019)

somewhatshocked said:


> Those plants in the background are terrific! Glad you avoided Blyxa - ha.
> 
> As for jumpers... I've never been able to keep any sort of fish in my 45-F that didn't jump. It's just too shallow. Same for the 60. Even if I added a 5-6cm acrylic ledge/rim around the top. You may find yourself having to cover the tank or going shrimp-only if they don't settle down.
> 
> Note: The ledge/rim _has_ helped stop shrimp from jumping from my rimless tanks.


Thank you! I really like those background plants as well and hopefully they will get even more colourful, as I was aiming for a color combination ranging from green to yellow, orange and red. And with them, there are things happening every day in the tank - not to mention even at night, when some of them are closing up and going for sleep. They are awesome. 

A lid or rim wouldn't really be an option, I really like the tank open and I am planning on letting some of the plants grow emersed. If they keep on jumping I will give the rest to a friend who has a higher tank (and already stated that he wants them lol) and go on exclusively with shrimps.


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## Janci (Aug 21, 2019)

Wow.
I was always attracted to the iwagumi style, but knowing from experience when starting a first planted tank, you always want more to see and learn how to take care of the plants and fish.
I had the same when I was keeping a reef tank. I was convinced soft coral were the most pretty and interesting and ended up having the more tricky hard corals.

I love the new layout, including the wood.
By the time you come back the colours will hopefully have exploded.
Keep us posted.


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## SECollector (Jul 28, 2019)

*Update!*

How my 45-F Iwagumi style aquascape transformed to an aquatic garden over the course of a month. All hardscape has been - during this time - removed and I have been working hard experimenting with fifteen different kind of plants! Huge learning curve and such a fun process trying to make these plants work in a shallow nano aquarium, against all odds ⁣

I have been trimming the stem plants at least once a week, replanting 90% of the trimmed stems. The Cuba carpet needs trimming at least once every two weeks. I am not yet totally satisfied with the colours of some of the stems, but it has nonetheless worked out better than I was expecting and hoping.⁣

My shrimps (RCS and Amano) are also doing great and I was really surprised and excited to spot some fry of Celestial Pearl Danio in there as well (they are all hidden somewhere in there!) I am not currently in the mode to breed them in a way that would actually raise their survival rates, but the dense planting gives me a slight hope that some of them might maybe survive. We will see!⁣



















And a front view:


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## Janci (Aug 21, 2019)

Wow, things certainly have taken a turn.
The tank looks great, although I am fan of a more visible hard scape in a tank.
You definitely need some fish that show themselves... Hahaha.

Your plants have great color.


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## SECollector (Jul 28, 2019)

Janci said:


> Wow, things certainly have taken a turn.
> The tank looks great, although I am fan of a more visible hard scape in a tank.
> You definitely need some fish that show themselves... Hahaha.
> 
> Your plants have great color.


I am totally with you regarding hardscape! The rescape was however done down the road, it was not well planned and I didn't want to tear everything down and plan something right from the start. I am planning to work with the plants, see what is working for me and what not and probably in January do a totally new scape, with rocks and iron wood. It's all a fun process!


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## SECollector (Jul 28, 2019)

*Update:*

Photo from last night before trimming Vs Photo from today after trimming.

This tank is still a huge learning process for me. Still trying to get the basics of trimming and everything else. I have loads to learn but at least I have still not killed everything  Trimming fast-growing stems in such a shallow tank is not optimal either in any way, since it doesn't really give you enough space to work with the height. I have been trimming and replanting, and even taking out plants and replanting only the tops. Lots of experimentation. I added some small driftwood with Christmas Moss as well.

I also got a Twinstar 450 ES light. First photo is with the ADA Aquasky G and the second one with the Twinstar. Not a fair comparison since the colours were much more vivid before the trimming, but I do like the Twinstar and especially the way it tones the red plants. I have also ordered and received an ADA 45-P tank that I will be setting probably in January, so I will be using both of them anyway.

*Before (with ADA Aquasky)*









*After (With Twinstar 450ES)*









Until next time, cheers!


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## SECollector (Jul 28, 2019)

I guess it is almost safe to claim that this tank is getting towards a more mature phase. The plants seem to get along well, except from the Staurogene repens (older leaves keep getting gray and melting). I have also had a few smaller spots of HC Cuba showing signs of melting out of the sudden, which makes me scratching my head. 

CO2 is well tuned, I follow the ADA fertilisation system and the lights are on and off as usual, in a 7-hours cycle. My nitrates have been however close to zero for a long time. I have started dosing Green Brighty Nitrogen for about a week now but they are still not getting up. I am not even sure if this is the problem. Any ideas? Maybe try a bit longer light cycle?

Here is an updated photo, from today.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

I love it so much. You've done a great job of making the tank look so much larger than it is. Everything about it is wonderful.


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## SECollector (Jul 28, 2019)

somewhatshocked said:


> I love it so much. You've done a great job of making the tank look so much larger than it is. Everything about it is wonderful.


Thank you so much! There are things about the plant layout that I would have changed if I knew when I was planning it what I know now, but I do love it. Not to mention that this little tank has actually been really kind and forgiving towards me lol. I will try to apply what I know now, when planning my 45-P which will be a more classic nature style with driftwood and stems. 

Cheers!


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## Jamo33 (Feb 18, 2014)

Stunning mate. 
The tank took a 180 and completely changed directions, but you have done very very well and it looks great!


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## Janci (Aug 21, 2019)

Very nice.
Love the light changes and how everything seem to get along.


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## SECollector (Jul 28, 2019)

Thanks for the kind words guys. I really like the Twinstar ES light, and probably prefer it compared to the Aquasky G by the way. Its only been a week or so, but I do notice nicer colours on the red and orange plants already. I will be definitely using it for my coming 45-P tank that will have a lot of those stems. This 45-F will probably be used as a green-based lower plants scape instead when the 45-P is up and running, but time will tell.


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## SECollector (Jul 28, 2019)

Some advice needed:

As I mentioned above my HC Cuba has been showing signs of melting probably due to a deficiency of some kind. Also the Staurogene repens has leaves with small holes while older leaves get fast gray and melt. All other plants (different Rotalas, Bacopa australis, Ludwigia Palustris and Hemianthus Glomeratus) seem healthy and happy.

I did some tests today and the results can probably explain some things:

ΚΗ: 3 dH
GH: 5 dH
pH: 6,2
NH4: 0 mg/l
N02: 0 mg/l
NO3: 0 mg/l
PO4: 0 mg/l

My pH has been stable at 6,2 the whole time. But the water is now softer than it has been (probably due to the fact that I have removed the Ryuoh stones). I am dosing daily ADA Green Brighty Neutral K, Green Brighty Mineral, Green Brighty Nitrogen and a couple of times every week Green Brighty Iron (I noticed some BHA after a couple of weeks when I was dosing Iron every day). I am using double doses of K and Minerals since the tank is so heavily planted. The substrate is ADA Aquasoil and it is now almost 4 months old.

Is PO4 and NO3 the problem? What else can I do to raise my nitrates? More Nitrogen than I already dose? Or anything else I should be checking or adding? Magnesium? Things are simple as long as everything works, but not as much when things become unstable  

Any help would be really appreciated!


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## SECollector (Jul 28, 2019)

Here is a photo showing the melting of the HC Cuba and the problems with the Staurogene Repens. As well a couple of photos of the stems. The Bacopa australis is growing like mad, but develops orange tops (that most probably depend on the deprivation of nitrates).


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## SECollector (Jul 28, 2019)

Hi guys!

Its been a few months since my last update here, and I feel I owe an update! Working with my 45-F definitely taught me a LOT but I soon felt that I wanted to try a higher tank as well, so I tore it down and went for a 45-P in order to be able to work with stem plants under better conditions  This is the current state of my 45-P:










I have during this time worked on a few more small projects. Currently a DOOA Neo Glass Air 20x20x8 that I recently planted:










And even a small DOOA Glass Pot Maru and other stuff  Yeah, I got hooked again lol

I even started an Instagram account (@shallow.worlds) where I post all my updates. I will try to post again more often here, but I wanted to give an update, since this is the thread that started it all, when I got back into the hobby some months ago  Cheers!


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## andrewss (Oct 17, 2012)

Wow the new setup looks great and that small shallow emergent tank is really cool! A plant list would be interesting! Keep up the good work 👌


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## SECollector (Jul 28, 2019)

Hey! Thanks. Sure, here is the plant list for the DOOA. Some of them are still too small to see on the photo 

Eriocaulon septangulare
Limnophila aromatica
Juncus repens
Juncus ensifolius
Alternanthera reineckii 'Mini'
Staurogyne repens
Clinopodium brownei
Pogostemon erectus
Hydrocotyle verticillata
Salvinia auriculata
Vesicularia "Christmas Moss" 

Hope this helps!


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