# high phosphates, bba



## rrogan (Nov 5, 2007)

I've been getting a lot of BBA lately and I tested my phosphate level and it was around 3 or 4 ppm, so i did a large WC and cut back on feeding. It's now down to about 1ppm in a heavily planted tank w/co2. So my question is how do I get rid of the algae now? Do I just remove the leaves and plants that are covered in it?


----------



## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

this is the second time today I have seen someone correlate phosphates with BBA. Where is this evidence coming from?


----------



## rrogan (Nov 5, 2007)

well my co2 levels are good, and people said it might be staghorn, but it doesn't really come off. here's some pictures, maybe you can help me decide what kind it is.


----------



## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

Looks like BBA. Spot treat with H202 or Excel.


----------



## rrogan (Nov 5, 2007)

ok thanks i'll give it a try


----------



## imeridian (Jan 19, 2007)

You said your CO2 level was good. Do you use a drop checker? Is your CO2 pressurized? 

Inconsistent CO2, which is particularly common with DIY, really tends to help algae get the upper hand.


----------



## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

gmccreedy said:


> this is the second time today I have seen someone correlate phosphates with BBA. Where is this evidence coming from?


Well, it does correlate, poor growth via lack of CO2, if you dose PO4 or if you have a fish load, or tap adding PO4, then PO4 ppms can climb, whereas if you have good CO2, and good other parameters, the PO4 will decline.

If not, it will rise.
This leads many to assume PO4 excess is the cause for BBA or a dozen other algae species, it does correlate, however, it does not show cause.

In lawyer terms, it's merely circumstantial evidence, you cannot convict PO4 of algae blooms in a court of Plant Law based on that evidence.

What's strange, at least to me, is that folks fought tooth and nail over a decade ago with me about this. Now many just assume it to be fact.

We knew then that CO2 and BBA seems well correlated and test it, yet few seem to think that BBA is caused by poor CO2.

I've found hardly any of possible factors other than CO2 for BBA.
Those are just skeptical thoughts, no evidence to show otherwise.

One issue that plagues folks, good CO2 measurement.
It's not a simple one time test kit.
It's ever changing and can change 30ppm inside 1 hour, NO3?
It'd take days..........

Then poor measurement of CO2 as well.
Drop checkers rule out KH, but they also have a long lag time.

If you see BBA, try increasing the surface movement a bit, increase the CO2 some, and do so very slowly, watch the tank's plants, fish should not be gasping at all(ever)!

Water changes tend to help if done frequently.

Also, clean that filter out or clean the CO2 reactor/disc etc. Reduced flows can = reduced CO2.

You can add Excel to speed things up.
Adding it adds Carbon for the plants as well as toxic effects on the algae.

It's best to wait the BBA out and let the plants bounce back, the BBA will go away easily once you focus on the plant growth.

We often think we are doing the right things, but test kits and assumptions can get us into to trouble.

Watching the plants helps a lot more than test kits........and that's most of the time if not all the time, the plants and algae are after all, a form of test kit that is applied to our hobby.

Can proper use of test kits help?
Some but they are not as grand and essential as many claim.
I virtually never use them for tanks I do and set up.

I've tested a lot and gone back to answer specific questions I had of interest, or to see and confirm and relationship, but rarely as form of monitoring.

Still, a poorly used test kit is just as bad as not knowing a darn thing.
Perhaps even worst.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


----------



## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

BBA takes a few days, perhaps weeks to form.
So the cause might be a while back.
That's the issue, you might have bumped it back up and then seen it later.

Folks seem to not consider the time delays often times with algae.
Be careful there, think back etc.

The two main forms of algae I've seen when reducing CO2 under otherwise non limiting nutrients and high light: BBA and green hair algae.
Some Rhizoclonium as well.

But mostly Hair(Cladophora) and BBA.
Good CO2 essentially stops their new growth.
From there, you can and should easily be able to prune it it out/away, Excel kill it etc, equipment or glass/rock/wood, can be peroxided or Exceled when you do a large water change directly on the infested area.
You can use a spray bottle to nail larger areas, use only dilute spray(say 1:9) for plants and rinse and refill tank fast thereafter.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


----------



## rrogan (Nov 5, 2007)

I have pressurized co2 but I took the drop checker out a week or 2 ago because I never saw any changes. Somewhere in that period I guess my inline reactor fell over and pinched my filter's return hose. The reactor is behind my tank and the tank is up against the wall almost and it has a background so I didn't know this. I saw that the return flow was slow so I cleaned the filter and everything, and it was still slow. I decided to clean the hoses too and that's when I saw the line was pinched. This must have lowered my co2 levels because of the slow water flow. I put the drop checker back in and I'm just gonna leave it there now in case this happens again. I did secure the reactor to the wall now, so it shouldn't fall over again.


----------



## imeridian (Jan 19, 2007)

You probably know this, but just in case and the for future reference of others, you're using 4dKH water in your drop checker correct? Not tap, aquarium, distilled, or any number of incorrect forms of water that sellers of these drop checkers often erroneously recommend. It really should start out blue (as the result of the addition of pH test reagent), then over the course of a couple hours turn green or maybe yellowish, depending on CO2 level.

I created a hair algae disaster by allowing my filter intake to get a bit too clogged, so any pinch or reduction of filter flow can definitely start to wreck things. I tested seriously high PO4, but knowing that didn't cause the algae thanks to Tom Barr's comprehensive postings (Thanks Tom), I realized it was because my plant growth had slowed down for reasons unrelated to the PO4 (no flow and disrupted CO2). That growth slowdown was why the PO4 level was elevated. I've followed the instructions he's provided above in my battle against the hair (which works for BBA too) and I've very nearly won the war, victory within reach.


----------



## rrogan (Nov 5, 2007)

Yea I've noticed a lot more pearling from my plants now that it's fixed, and the PO4 levels are down now too. And yes, I use a 4.5 dkh distilled water with baking soda solution in my drop checker with the regent from my API test kit which is blue when too low, green when its good, and yellow is too much.


----------



## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

what about non CO2 tanks?
i have a little BBA here and there. some say it's because of the inconsistent of CO2 caused by weekly water changes. is this true? should i stop doing frequent water change and increase the interval?


----------

