# German Blue Rams and nitrates



## Alyssum (Feb 23, 2015)

I just got a german blue ram and I keep reading that they are sensitive to nitrates. Where does this information come from? Some say it should be 10 PPM or less, but don't planted tanks usually require at least 20? Mine is in the 30-40 ppm range right now (a bit higher than it should be I guess?), should I be scrambling to bring it down? He is not showing any signs of distress, but you never know with fish. What are your experiences with rams and nitrates? I notice a lot info gets repeated and no one really knows the origins of said information or if it's even valid. However, I'm relatively new to the hobby and very new to planted tanks. Teach me


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## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

I have never been able to keep my GBR in much over 20 for long wiothout paying for it?
In my 180 with 40ppm possibly before weekly 50% wc they never lasted long for me.
There could be other issues ,but nothing clearly a problem for years...
Here's an interesting thread on same note;
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=185198&highlight=yunite


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## Alyssum (Feb 23, 2015)

Hmm. I just did a large water change before I got him and dosed ferts which brought it up to where it is now...but if I have to change the water to get it down then that's what I'll do.


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## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

I just don't keep them in display tanks anymore at all.
Others do I believe without much problem.
I think many dose IE normally?


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## Alyssum (Feb 23, 2015)

Is it because they died a lot or you just lost interested in keeping them? I guess to be on safe side I'll do a smaller water change and try to keep nitrates around 20. Is there any signs of distress I should look out for? Do they just swim around normally then go belly up the next day?


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## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

I breed them in their own tanks now with remineralised water and no other fish.
I found they would settle on the bottom and then decline slowly for the most part when kept in my 180g community.
These are my rams now!
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=822833&highlight=


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## Alyssum (Feb 23, 2015)

Nice looking fish  I guess it's a bit too early in the game for me to have a ram only tank, but not sure if I should just return this little guy if he isn't going to do well in my community. Boyfriend really wanted one and we were aware of the sensitivity in general, but not the specifics of nitrates and being kept in communities.


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## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

Give him a chance!
Like I said many here have them in their community tanks without problems.
Wait to hear from others.


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## lksdrinker (Feb 12, 2014)

The biggest problem I've had with rams in the past is that they ended up dead without ever showing signs of distress or being sick. Could it have been due to rising nitrate levels? Sure; but I have no solid proof of that.

I had all but given up on keeping rams as I lost quite a few over the span of a few months. Then I found a breeder local to me and have been keeping 6 GBR without issue ( in various tanks) for about 6 months now. I try to keep the nitrates pretty low and am better at doing more frequent water changes so that might have something to do with it. But, I think the biggest benefit is that I got some healthy stock from someone breeding healthy fish as opposed to the less than perfect stock the LFS usually imports. 

So my bottom line is to get/find some good healthy fish (perhaps Coralbandit is ready to start selling?!?!...hint hint!) and then maintain decent water parameters and you should be okay. There is a seller on aquabid, ebay, etc named Yunite (or something very similar anyway) who is known to be a very reputable breeder of GBR and usually sells at very fair prices (with free shipping if I recall). I've never purchased fish from him; but would definitely trust him (her maybe?) as a seller!

As an aside, also make sure you keep that temp up to at least 80 if not higher so long as the other tank mates can tolerate it.


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## The Dude (Feb 8, 2011)

I can't help with specific numbers since I dont test anymore. I don't dose ferts and I use excel. My tank is heavily planted and pretty well stocked. My GBR's and my EBR have breed twice in the month I've had them. I do a 50% water change every 7-10 days and they are very active and outgoing. 
There is no way I'd consider returning my Rams... they are absolutely awesome. In the past I have had trouble keeping them. I used to do monthly water changes since I over filter my tanks and they are so heavily planted. In those case the Rams were much less active and kind of reclusive. They never made it more than maybe 6 months. When Rams are healthy they are super active and inquisitive. They each have a personality and they are big talkers... they chase and act tough, but no one ever gets really physical and they do it rarely enough to where none ever get stressed out or any of that.
like I said I don't know what my nitrates are, but they have to be up there. I've got 9 Corys, 7 Congo Tetras, 13 Bloodfin tetras, 4 Rams, and a ton of snails and shrimp.

Iksdrinker makes a great point about temps. I HATE heaters and I really prefer to have unheated tanks since I live in FL and the AC is always on. I keep the house at 72-73* all the time and with the lights it's a little warmer. I'm sire that also made things bad. I don't know my exact temps, but I've got a titanium heater set at 80*. I've got an eheim heater and digital thermometer on the way.


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

There are nitrates from biological oxidation of organic material and then there are nitrates from inorganic mineral salt KNO3 for those who use it.
It is the biological oxidation of organic material which is first ammonia,then nitrites and finally nitrates that is hard on some species.
KNO3 is inorganic mineral salt and does not go through the biological oxidation so is much less an issue for fishes.
Kept the german blue rams for three or four year's and could not get but maybe three out of ten to live more than four or five month's GH12,pH 7.6.
Was not until I cut my tap water by nearly 50% with distilled water that I managed to keep them for a couple years at nearly 70% success rate.
50% water changes each week,temp 82 degrees F.
Agree with other's,find good stock from breeder for best result's.
They are a relatively short lived fish with life expectancy of around three year's.


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## alcimedes (Dec 7, 2014)

I've been keeping them in a planted community tank in the office, but have been using about 2/3 distilled vs 1/3 tap water in the tank.

As of yet I haven't measured nitrates over 10ppm, and that's with only 30% water change every two weeks. With enough plants in the tank, nitrates never seem to build up.


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## Alyssum (Feb 23, 2015)

Good information. I did a water change just to be safe. I've got it at 80 degrees. My tank is moderately planted, I tried to fit as much as I could without blocking light to most of the plants. They haven't grown out yet because the tank is new. He seems to be enjoying the cover of the plants, but is also very active. He swims against the glass a lot with the cories. My PH is 7.5 and GH 12, so pretty similar so yours roadmaster. Not sure where the ram came from, I'll have to ask the LFS where they get their stock.


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## The Dude (Feb 8, 2011)

My Rams occasionally join in with the Corys and the Bloodfins... as long as they are outgoing like that you can be pretty confident that they are happy. When they are unhappy they are very reclusive. I actually thought that how all GBR's were until this recent group and finally getting water perameters where they should've been all along


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## schnebbles (Jan 10, 2015)

my bolivians must be very unhappy  they hide all the time


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## The Dude (Feb 8, 2011)

schnebbles said:


> my bolivians must be very unhappy  they hide all the time


They still haven't warmed up to you? Are they eating well?


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

Alyssum said:


> Good information. I did a water change just to be safe. I've got it at 80 degrees. My tank is moderately planted, I tried to fit as much as I could without blocking light to most of the plants. They haven't grown out yet because the tank is new. He seems to be enjoying the cover of the plants, but is also very active. He swims against the glass a lot with the cories. My PH is 7.5 and GH 12, so pretty similar so yours roadmaster. Not sure where the ram came from, I'll have to ask the LFS where they get their stock.


 So long as the fish takes food,and is active,then less worries.
Can't afford to be lazy with maint with these fishes.
Symptoms of unhappy fish.. Refusing food or spitting it back out,loss of coloration,less active, pimples or sores may appear on the fish,heavy respiration, and then death in maybe day's. 
HA!Ha! it just occurred to me that order of symptoms I described usually happen's backwards, or last to first as I experienced.
I kept mine in small 20 gal so mixing/storing distilled/tap was not too big a chore and did seem to help the fish considerably.
Good luck:wink:


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## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

lksdrinker said:


> The biggest problem I've had with rams in the past is that they ended up dead without ever showing signs of distress or being sick. Could it have been due to rising nitrate levels? Sure; but I have no solid proof of that.
> 
> I had all but given up on keeping rams as I lost quite a few over the span of a few months. Then I found a breeder local to me and have been keeping 6 GBR without issue ( in various tanks) for about 6 months now. I try to keep the nitrates pretty low and am better at doing more frequent water changes so that might have something to do with it. But, I think the biggest benefit is that I got some healthy stock from someone breeding healthy fish as opposed to the less than perfect stock the LFS usually imports.
> 
> ...


Calculating all it takes to ship I can't beat Yunites prices!
I just checked on all this last night!
I HIGHLY recommend Yunite(a "small" father and son outfit) in CA.
They shipped me 10 last fall and everyone survived is still part of my breeding program.With shipping I paid $60 for 10.

http://www.germanbluerams.com/


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## brooksie321 (Jul 19, 2014)

Coralbandit said:


> Calculating all it takes to ship I can't beat Yunites prices!
> I just checked on all this last night!
> I HIGHLY recommend Yunite(a "small" father and son outfit) in CA.
> They shipped me 10 last fall and everyone survived is still part of my breeding program.With shipping I paid $60 for 10.
> ...


I just ordered a female.from yunite, overall it was as good as it gets in dealing with someone, especially purchasing something as important as a breeding partner for your prized male gbr! communication was top notch! he puts the fish first which is a great thing with these particular fishies. Second picture is new .girl after 10 min in the tank (2 days in a box) not bad.......


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## Alyssum (Feb 23, 2015)

I'll make sure I keep a close eye on him. Sometimes it's easy to fall into complacency, but I don't want to deal with more sick fish due to my laziness xD I would have bought a ram from this breeder if I had known, but I've already got little Conan in the tank. If he dies in the near future (which I hope he doesn't) I might consider getting one from there. Love that picture! The colors are beautiful. Here is mine.


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## doughnut (Jul 22, 2010)

I don't want to stray too far from the OP's subject but WOW! great link!. Until now I've been wanting to get rams at a local club but this has me thinking for sure! Thanks bandit!



Coralbandit said:


> Calculating all it takes to ship I can't beat Yunites prices!
> I just checked on all this last night!
> I HIGHLY recommend Yunite(a "small" father and son outfit) in CA.
> They shipped me 10 last fall and everyone survived is still part of my breeding program.With shipping I paid $60 for 10.
> ...


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