# LED vs full spectrum LEDs?



## scolba (Jul 11, 2016)

I'm far from an expert, but have been obsessing over LED's for a little while for my own build. From what I have learned, the reds and blues in that listing don't look like the right wavelength for optimum photosynthesis (Red should be at like 640 to 680 and blue at 430 to 450), and also it looks like waaaaaay too much blue. I think that is more for a reef tank, especially since the only options are off, all on, and blue only. Now, all that said....plants probably would grow, just maybe not as well, and I doubt you would like the look of your tank under that much actinic blue. 

If you keep your searching, you will def be able to find a full spectrum setup to satisfy you. Personally, I am going to be building mine with 3w LEDs along the same way as this guy....just better heatsinks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IE5klMGUyoQ


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## Androider4Life (Feb 4, 2013)

scolba said:


> I'm far from an expert, but have been obsessing over LED's for a little while for my own build. From what I have learned, the reds and blues in that listing don't look like the right wavelength for optimum photosynthesis (Red should be at like 640 to 680 and blue at 430 to 450), and also it looks like waaaaaay too much blue. I think that is more for a reef tank, especially since the only options are off, all on, and blue only. Now, all that said....plants probably would grow, just maybe not as well, and I doubt you would like the look of your tank under that much actinic blue.
> 
> If you keep your searching, you will def be able to find a full spectrum setup to satisfy you. Personally, I am going to be building mine with 3w LEDs along the same way as this guy....just better heatsinks.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IE5klMGUyoQ


I would never use the blue just the on and off

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## scolba (Jul 11, 2016)

the trouble with that light though, unless I'm reading it wrong, is I don't think you will have a choice.



> • 3 control modes:
> 
> Day Mode (all LEDs on), Night Mode (only Actinic LEDs on) and turn-off


From the looks of the switch its a center off, and day mode to one side, then night mode to the other. No option to turn on only the white lights.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

What I usually suggest is not using RGB strips.. Too many spectral holes..








As to DIY small emitters SMD5630 ribbons will work. Get warm white and cool white and mix..
Stronger than this but same concept:
https://www.superbrightleds.com/mor...with-36-smds-per-ft-2-chip-smd-led-3528/1451/
A cheap fully programmed (well ONE full program) light would be like the Vivagrow or Finnex 24/7
https://www.amazon.com/VivaGrow-Aquarium-Freshwater-Remote-Automation/dp/B01BX6KLCQ
at $60 a fair deal.. Note that some have found you can hack the light to run w/ a TC-420 (about a $30 add on though)


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## Androider4Life (Feb 4, 2013)

scolba said:


> the trouble with that light though, unless I'm reading it wrong, is I don't think you will have a choice.
> 
> 
> 
> From the looks of the switch its a center off, and day mode to one side, then night mode to the other. No option to turn on only the white lights.


I meant i wouldnt use night mode. I would leave it in the on position and plug it into a timer 

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## Androider4Life (Feb 4, 2013)

jeffkrol said:


> What I usually suggest is not using RGB strips.. Too many spectral holes..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I figured I needed full spectrum for the plants. The ones you linked on superbrightleds, u said i need brighter than that?

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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Androider4Life said:


> I figured I needed full spectrum for the plants. The ones you linked on superbrightleds, u said i need brighter than that?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


Well you can get the same effect w/ a lot more power by buying 2 reels. One of each color temp:

Like 150 Watts/reel..Now true diode watts is another story..
5M 300 LED SMD 5730 Strip Light 12V 60LEDs/M Ribbon Tape
you can get all you need here..
$16.60...


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## Androider4Life (Feb 4, 2013)

jeffkrol said:


> Well you can get the same effect w/ a lot more power by buying 2 reels. One of each color temp:
> 
> Like 150 Watts/reel..Now true diode watts is another story..
> 5M 300 LED SMD 5730 Strip Light 12V 60LEDs/M Ribbon Tape
> ...


So one pure white and one warm white? Each roll is 16ft, my tank is 3ft long. So cut them in 3ft lengths, mount to whatever i am using then solder wire to connect the cuts together? 

Do i need a led driver? ( not sure what it does)

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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Those strips run at constant voltage. Current is "controlled" by resistors on the tape itself.
So you just need a matching power supply.. and if wanted a "controller"..
12V w/ enough power to run the collective needs of the strips.
*12V and 120w total..10A power supply*
Best to just buy a big one or scavenge a computer power supply (a bit tricky to use, you need to jumper a wire to start it)..
Yes mix ribbons.. Preferred config. is usually 2 rows of cool white to 1 warm, though w/ a dimmer (one for each color) this is not really necessary.
A controller to use w/ programming but no remote function is a TC-420.
NOT THIS Tc-420 (just ran into it) but it is interesting.. Has only 3 channels though . You really only need 2 1 ww , 1 cw
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/DC12-24V12A-time-controller-sunlite-lighting_60072137787.html

BUT this one:








https://www.ledtuning.nl/en/shop/pr...-tc420-led-timecontroller-usb-and-pc-software

There are dozens of these types from this to wireless.. It is kind of a mess..
Most are $30 or less...

as to cutting and wiring some snap on connectors are available. Just don't get the RGB type..
A fairly good example:
SMD5730 led flexible strip, DC12V cool white,60leds/m










"A" power supply, there are dozens of these too.. 
http://www.vozop.com/index.php/dc-12v-30a-360w-switching-power-supply-metal-case-driver.html
NOTE bigger than necessary..


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## Androider4Life (Feb 4, 2013)

Thank you for all that information. Very helpful. I have a few computer power supplies sitting around.

As far as the controller and the dimmer goes. Can I leave those two items out just to get started and add them later if I would ever choose to? Cuz as far as a timer goes I can just use my standard wall timer that my t8s are on now.

But if I do decide to go with a controller and I have 6 runs. Using the 5 Channel controller as an example one channel would just have two runs on it correct?

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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

One channel has 2 another has 4..yes, if you choose.. Can do any combination you prefer... ;0
Just keep in the amp range of the channel..4A per channel..

SEEMS I misread the specs, sorry..
Luminous Flux:40-45LM per LED
Power consumption: *approx 60W/5Meters,* 12W/Meter
Only 60W per 5m..
But that is 1W /meter or roughly 3' so you can put up to 4-3ft sections per channel

along w/ your on/off it is cheap enough to at least add a manual dimmer..
https://www.amazon.com/LEDwholesalers-LED-Strip-Lights-Controller/dp/B003L4KKF2


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## Androider4Life (Feb 4, 2013)

I wouldn't need that dinner if I got this one right?

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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Right...


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## Androider4Life (Feb 4, 2013)

What would you recommend sticking the led stripes to?

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## grizzly_a (Sep 9, 2014)

heatsink, or aluminum c-channel or square tubing. That strip has the 3M adhesive which has good reviews, but personally I would help the adhesive by adding some small round head screws along each side of the strip to help support it as it gets older. I've seen a lot of other LED strips warm up and the adhesive lets go after time.


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## Androider4Life (Feb 4, 2013)

grizzly_a said:


> heatsink, or aluminum c-channel or square tubing. That strip has the 3M adhesive which has good reviews, but personally I would help the adhesive by adding some small round head screws along each side of the strip to help support it as it gets older. I've seen a lot of other LED strips warm up and the adhesive lets go after time.


So many options in LED i want to make sure I get the right stuff. I'm looking to keep the project at under $60. I know $30 into the controller / dimmer.

my tank is 36 inches long and 16 inches high but I may be upgrading to a 65-gallon that's 25 inches high. 

Like anybody I want to get the biggest bang for my buck but not expecting the output of a couple hundred dollar system

So many LEDs online and on eBay keeping within the U.S I don't know what to choose and not regret it

Would this be good to mount the LEDs to

http://low.es/1zvkxKI

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## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

Another option if you are handy is to make your own chassis out of ABS. Should run like $15 or so for a 6" wide x 39" long piece. Throw out 3/8" a couple of times for blade cuts, and you should have a nice 1" high frame to glue to the main strip. You can even get frosted acrylic/polycarbonate to "seal" the fixture and diffuse light. 

I'm doing a similar project using 2x cool 7020's and 1x warm 7020 (supernight brand because it was local). I went this route to ultimately make 3 fixtures for under $60, but no TC420 needed for me yet.

Edit: Also hoping and praying jeffkrol doesn't point out how dumb my "project" might be, lol. He is one smart dude, and I'd trust whatever he advises on LED's


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Well not to purposely confuse you more but there is a "canned" option:
https://www.amazon.com/VivaGrow-Aquarium-Freshwater-Remote-Automation/dp/B01BX6KLCQ

Catch is it has one fully automated program. After that you can adjust (color and or intensity) it but you would have to run it off a timer.

to "not regret" it your best DIY option is to use 3W diodes..$40 vs $14...though you can go cheaper than $40 but they seem to have tendency to fail (very cheap 3W diodes)
A bit more skill.. i.e soldering ect but nothing like brain surgery.

One reason is if you went to a deeper tank it is both fairly cheap and easy to add lenses to add punch to the diodes..
The downside is the cost gets escalated w/ the change from constant voltage to constant current drive. Heat sinking costs a bit more as well..


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

natemcnutty said:


> Edit: Also hoping and praying jeffkrol doesn't point out how dumb my "project" might be, lol. He is one smart dude, and I'd trust whatever he advises on LED's


Few ideas are dumb, just some are more successful than others..
and there are always multiple ways to get to an end.

Personaly I don't mess w/ strips because of glue failures.. Moisture penetration and the slight (or more depending on construction) efficiency loss by using constant voltage and resistors..
Case in point a simple 30 diode 1/2w/diode build using constant voltage and resistors:


> each 18 ohm resistor dissipates 259.2 mW
> the wizard thinks 1/2W resistors are needed for your application
> together, all resistors dissipate 2592 mW
> together, the diodes dissipate 11880 mW
> ...


That is about an 18% waste of power.. 
Unfortunately at certain price points or ease of build that is the price you pay...

Shopping the "worlds marketplace".. for $25 you can get this:


> ET 6500K 0.50W LED Aquarium Light Freshwater Plant Beamswork


36" ET 90 42x - 1800 lumen 36x 6500K, 6x Actinic

Still can hack into the line from the power supply to the light itself and get at least one channel of programmed dimming using a tc-420.. 
Saves a lot of work..42 1/2w diodes 6500k and blue..


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

Just a word of advice on the power supply, lets say you work out you need a 10W supply, don't go and buy a 10W supply, try to at least get a 15 or 20W supply or you will be running the poor little PSU probably build with construction cost as a higher priority than durability, into the ground in a year. I wonder if there is a way to remove those resistors from the strips or if they are encapsulated. 

A resistor current limiter is a horrible idea in this scenario, as the resistance keeps changing with the temperature driving the units harder, the hotter they get. Not a good idea. Also it is horribly inefficient, 17% of the power in above example is just wasted as radiant heat in the resistors. (saw now you picked up on this).


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## Androider4Life (Feb 4, 2013)

jeffkrol said:


> Shopping the "worlds marketplace".. for $25 you can get this:
> 
> 36" ET 90 42x - 1800 lumen 36x 6500K, 6x Actinic
> 
> ...


Looking at the "world marketplace" in the specifications, would that give me enough lumens for a planted tank? Or maybe do two of them?

Would two of those give me more Punch or less punch then 6 3ft strips of :
http://www.vozop.com/index.php/led-...730-strip-light-12v-60leds-m-ribbon-tape.html









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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Well, 42 diodes vs 600.. LOL.. they are the same diodes so the tapes have a lot going for them.. 

As to that controller.. I've seen equivalent cheaper.. may be worth a shop around..\

AND MAKE sure the app matches your android OS...This is critical..


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## Androider4Life (Feb 4, 2013)

jeffkrol said:


> Well, 42 diodes vs 600.. LOL.. they are the same diodes so the tapes have a lot going for them..
> 
> As to that controller.. I've seen equivalent cheaper.. may be worth a shop around..\
> 
> AND MAKE sure the app matches your android OS...This is critical..


I don't even need the the wifi remote part. But other controller I found tc-420 was 5 buck cheaper with no remote and no Wifi 

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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Androider4Life said:


> I don't even need the the wifi remote part. But other controller I found tc-420 was 5 buck cheaper with no remote and no Wifi
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


Either one is fine .. I've got one of the wifi ones sitting here unused that 
I 'm pretty sure was bought for under $20 inc. shipping..
Not sure it was a deal or what but the reason it is sitting is no compatible android OS.. so i'm just holding onto it for now. 


> After looking back it was from vozop..
> *Bluetooth 4.0 RGB Led Controller IOS/Android Mi Light Controller*
> Bluetooth 4.0 RGB Led Controller IOS/Android Mi Light Controller 1 $15.99


so you may just be dealing w/ current pricing..


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## Androider4Life (Feb 4, 2013)

What I ended up ordering 






























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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Controller is rated 2A/channel w/ 3 channels... 24W/channel..Your ribbons are 30W/meter..and 2.5A/m
Something is not adding up here:
LED quantity: 60 LEDs per meter, 5 meters length, total 300 LEDs



> Package: 5 meters per reel
> 
> View angle: 120 degrees
> 
> ...


Most 5630 reels do list a 5 or 6A power supply though..
Using
12
3.3
90
60
in this calc:
http://led.linear1.org/led.wiz

gives me:


> The wizard says: In solution 0:
> 
> each 27 ohm resistor dissipates 218.7 mW
> the wizard thinks 1/2W resistors are needed for your application Help
> ...


1.8Amps per 60 diodes = 1 meter

TABLES:
http://www.ledlightsworld.com/page.html?id=38


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## Androider4Life (Feb 4, 2013)

I got the 5730's. So your saying the controller and powersupply are wrong or just the controller? 

Heres the controller on another site

http://www.vozop.com/index.php/led-...control-dimmer-timing-controller-12v-24v.html

Further down the page it says :
this controlled is used to controlled the single color strip,can connect 3 pcs single in parallel, its DC12-24V , 4A/CH, "COM" is the Common +,CH1/CH2/CH3 is three - Port


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Androider4Life said:


> I got the 5730's. So your saying the controller and power supply are wrong or just the controller?
> 
> Heres the controller on another site
> 
> ...


The controller look to be able to only do 3-3ft (3-1M) strips.. One per channel.
Power supply looks fine, would "prefer" larger for a few reasons. Larger should be more robust at lower currents than rated .
And it leaves room for expansion.
Assuming the above chart I posted is correct, to run 2 reels of 5m leds requires (120W x2) a 240W power supply.
Using say 6M out of the total of 10 you need 6/10 x 240W = 144W..
Like I mentioned giving room for expansion 240W would be a minimum...but not necessary..
102W will fully power 4 1M sections..
Depends on your final needs..


> 4A/CH, "COM" is the Common +,CH1/CH2/CH3


when I did a search on that type of controller the spec I saw was 2A/ch not 4 (24W /channel not 48w/channel)..
At 4A/channel the controller will be ok w/ 6-1M pieces..
4x3 is fine Tc-420 was 4x5..
A 5M reel uses 5-6A....


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## Androider4Life (Feb 4, 2013)

jeffkrol said:


> The controller look to be able to only do 3-3ft (3-1M) strips.. One per channel.
> Power supply looks fine, would "prefer" larger for a few reasons. Larger should be more robust at lower currents than rated .
> gives room for expansion.
> Assuming the above chart I posted, to run 2 reels of 5m leds requires (120W x2) a 240W power supply.


I'm going to have I'm probably going to do 6 runs.

What controller would you recommend?

As far as a power supply goes, my hood is going to be low clearance so unfortunately I cannot use a power supply out of a computer. 

What power supply would you recommend to order can I buy another power supply the same as what I got and just run both of them into the power to control?



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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

You can use more than on power supply like this:









Problem is it gets messy and would need one controller per power supply..
How much room? See dimensions of this:
https://www.amazon.com/Switching-Power-Supply-Driver-Strip/dp/B007B8MWI2

I run my power supplies away from the water so space is usually not an issue..
Those open frame types need protection..
If you scale back to just supplying 6 strips.. say 6x2A @12V 144w or 12A.
https://www.amazon.com/LEDwholesalers-Power-Adapter-5-5x2-1mm-3229-12V/dp/B00A3R5R5S


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## Androider4Life (Feb 4, 2013)

Power Supplies






































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## Androider4Life (Feb 4, 2013)

Controllers i found online but will look on the "worlds marketplace". Do not need a remote but would be nice to easily manually dim the lights if watching a movie cause the tank is off to the side of the tv

3ch 8amp per ch
http://www.vozop.com/index.php/led-...-led-controller-for-max-40-meters-strips.html

1ch 16amp
http://www.vozop.com/index.php/led-...color-controller-rf-remote-control-rf203.html

3ch 8am per ch
http://www.vozop.com/index.php/led-...oller-with-touch-panel-rf-remote-control.html

5ch 4amp per ch
http://www.vozop.com/index.php/led-...ller-programmable-time-12v-24v-20a-tc420.html

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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

That's a sick amount of light over a 40 gal, hope you have ammonia under control or you will have a green mess in no time.


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## Androider4Life (Feb 4, 2013)

Nordic said:


> That's a sick amount of light over a 40 gal, hope you have ammonia under control or you will have a green mess in no time.


Bumped up to a 65gal, 25in high. I I'll unplug some strips if it ends up being too much

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## Androider4Life (Feb 4, 2013)

I have these in my attic



























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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

25A
11A
and 33A
any will work fine for what you want.
You do know you need to jumper 2 wires to get them to turn on?









How Can I Test My Computer?s Power Supply?


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## Androider4Life (Feb 4, 2013)

Androider4Life said:


> I have these in my attic
> 
> 
> 
> ...





jeffkrol said:


> 25A
> 11A
> and 33A
> any will work fine for what you want.
> ...


I watched a video online on how to set it up for leds. 

Is there any benefit in to buying one of the switching power supplies compared to using one of the existing computer power supplies that I have 

My concern is having the computer power supply constantly running without me manually turning it off or I could put it on a outlet timer

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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Androider4Life said:


> Is there any benefit in to buying one of the switching power supplies compared to using one of the existing computer power supplies that I have


No



Androider4Life said:


> My concern is having the computer power supply constantly running without me manually turning it off or I could put it on a outlet timer


computers run 24/7 a lot.. most of mine do..no real need for a timer.
Good ps on "idle" consume little power..
you may save a few pennies w/it on a timer..


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## Androider4Life (Feb 4, 2013)

If i do the 33 amp power supply what controller would you recommend getting? I would like to be able to do it when needed. So I don't know if I need to get one with the remote or if I can get a standard wire one and somehow hook a dimmer to it

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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

As long as the controller can use 12V and as long as the strips don't exceed the draw from the led's then you can use any..
Make sure there are enough channels and each can take 4A or more.. some of the WiFi/bluetooth ones have MOSFETS rated up to 6A 
The PS rating is not really part of the equation,except to have enough capability and at 33A plenty of capability..


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## Androider4Life (Feb 4, 2013)

jeffkrol said:


> As long as the controller can use 12V and as long as the strips don't exceed the draw from the led's then you can use any..
> Make sure there are enough channels and each can take 4A or more.. some of the WiFi/bluetooth ones have MOSFETS rated up to 6A
> The PS rating is not really part of the equation,except to have enough capability and at 33A plenty of capability..


I appreciate all your knowledge and guidance!

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## Androider4Life (Feb 4, 2013)

Sent you a pm jeff

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## Androider4Life (Feb 4, 2013)

My lights:
http://www.vozop.com/index.php/led-...730-strip-light-12v-60leds-m-ribbon-tape.html

Power consumption: approx 60W/5Meters, 12W/Meter

I will have 6 runs, 1 meter each..12w x 6 runs = 72watt

The power brick i bought..8.5a 102 watt..
Why wouldn't that be enough power?














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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

It is.. I just did an erroneous calculation bsed on .5W x 300v for one rell.
forgetting that they are not run at .5w..

After 300 diodes the "error" builds up..
60 at .5 = 30 not 12.. 
At 60/12W= .2W per diode..?? Seems a bit low..


In my poor defense.. using .5W makes sure you always have enough power..  at a cost.


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## Androider4Life (Feb 4, 2013)

I got this contoller and it doesn't say watts per channel in the book or on it. How can i figure out what it is?










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## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

Well, my bet is 4 amps per channel. With 144 Watt max, 12 volt would be 12 amps. Since these are made as cheap as possible, there is no reason they would use different components per channel, so 12 amps divided by 3 channels is going to give you 4 amps per channel.

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## Androider4Life (Feb 4, 2013)

Everything is ordered. Ill post more when i get it all

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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

I wouldn't try to use more than 100W if you expect it to last for a while.


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## Androider4Life (Feb 4, 2013)

The leds will be here tomorrow and I can begin to build. I'll try to post pictures

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## Androider4Life (Feb 4, 2013)

Got my light built 

Items:
1 - roll pure white and 1 - warm IP65 : $27.19 w/shipping 
http://www.vozop.com/index.php/5m-300-led-smd-5730-strip-light-12v-60leds-m-ribbon-tape.html

1 - Led Controller with remote: $17 (ebay)
http://www.vozop.com/index.php/led-...control-dimmer-timing-controller-12v-24v.html

1 - DC 12v 8.5A 102w: $14.95 ebay

6 - 1/2 8ftv aluminum u channel - $$55.56 (Lowes)
http://low.es/1zvkxKI


















































































My kitchen in the dark, then with the aquarium light on just after I assembled it at the table 










Pictures don't really do it justice on how bright it is
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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

good job.. Pretty wide though.. 

The 10 vs 100 pics looks like the camera auto corrected the exposure though..


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## Androider4Life (Feb 4, 2013)

jeffkrol said:


> good job.. Pretty wide though..
> 
> The 10 vs 100 pics looks like the camera auto corrected the exposure though..


Ya

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## Androider4Life (Feb 4, 2013)

Only issue is with brightness set at 100% that aluminum gets too hot to touch and the power brick too 

I have a enclosed hood. I had to move the power brick to the outside and it looks like I will have to do the same with the controller. Even running at 40% the aluminum is warm and power supply is hot.

I may have to take some runs out. Probably over did it, but didn't want to under do it either LOL.

I'm going to start by unhooking the lights off one of the channels and keep eliminating strips until I achieve the brightness that I want at 100% without overloading or heating up anything

And with it being so wide, its in my way to feed my fish and do maintenance. So once I figure out how many strips I can eliminate then I can shrink down the size

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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

The plastic ps brick I can understand..The strips are usually "dumbed down" power draw wise so as to not get too hot..
They do have an odd configuration though w/ 2 resistors per 3 diodes.. Each is 24 Ohms. 

do you have a VOM w/ dc volts and say 2A current?
Check the voltage to make sure it is actually 12V.. 
Check the current on one strip..


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