# New Rock Purchase



## flight50 (Apr 17, 2012)

I just received my new rock purchase from the "For Sale/Trade" thread. The rocks are sold as Seiryu Stone although they probably aren't considering the export of them ceased a few years back. I gave them a muriatic acid soak of about 3-4 mins and removed them and placed them in tap water for 1 min. They fizzed like crazy and the soak revealed alot of banding that wasn't obvious. It's a night and day difference after being soaked for a lot was masked. I was thinking they were Basalt at first but Basalt doesn't fizz. They could be Ying Stones from SE China though. Nevertheless I am still satisfied with them as they are still some nice rocks with character

The 1st picture is of the ad in the sales thread. The 2nd is after the acid soak. I tried to get the same angles to get a better comparison. The two that are front center middle of pic 2 appear to be rocks that was swapped out for the original that's in the same location from pic 1. No biggie though, I still like the rocks. I will be doing a water parameter soak test for 2-3 weeks to note changes. This is just fyi for anyone curious on these rocks in the sales thread.


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

That is a night and day difference! Nice cleaning! 

Given that there was a lot of fizzing when you tested with acid I will suggest the rocks will raise the GH, KH, pH and TDS if your tap water is soft. Less change if you are starting with hard water.


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

I have mixed feelings about your post. When you order you should get the rocks pictured unless the ad stated different. But then the color change is something that I'm not going to fault the seller. 
Rocks will have a lot different coloring, depending how they are treated. The common limestone holey rock sold locally comes in many differ colors. Some of this color is from the sediment as it is laid down but then there is also a good deal of color picked up from the natural weathering that is on top of the rock itself. When I pick rocks in nature, I assume that any soaking I do may change the colors of the rock. 
I do bleach soaks and find it often makes a rock white for some time after I add them to the tank. It takes some time to replace the natural color from algae, lichen, etc. 
But muriatic acid is a whole different level of soaking that goes way beyond what I would call normal. I would not expect any rock to maintain a natural weathered appearance after an acid soak. 
Different rock shipped? Sellers fault. 
Different rock color? Your fault.


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## MrOreno (Nov 11, 2014)

Wow!


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## Raith (Jun 27, 2014)

What did you soak the rocks with?


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## Solcielo lawrencia (Dec 30, 2013)

Are the rocks in the second picture still wet?


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## flight50 (Apr 17, 2012)

Diana said:


> That is a night and day difference! Nice cleaning!
> 
> Given that there was a lot of fizzing when you tested with acid I will suggest the rocks will raise the GH, KH, pH and TDS if your tap water is soft. Less change if you are starting with hard water.


My tap is hard water. Ph 7.8 tds near 300. These rocks will be for an Iwagumi layout. I will have several tanks that will be just aquacapes so water parameters aren't as crucial.



PlantedRich said:


> I have mixed feelings about your post. When you order you should get the rocks pictured unless the ad stated different. But then the color change is something that I'm not going to fault the seller.
> Rocks will have a lot different coloring, depending how they are treated. The common limestone holey rock sold locally comes in many differ colors. Some of this color is from the sediment as it is laid down but then there is also a good deal of color picked up from the natural weathering that is on top of the rock itself. When I pick rocks in nature, I assume that any soaking I do may change the colors of the rock.
> I do bleach soaks and find it often makes a rock white for some time after I add them to the tank. It takes some time to replace the natural color from algae, lichen, etc.
> But muriatic acid is a whole different level of soaking that goes way beyond what I would call normal. I would not expect any rock to maintain a natural weathered appearance after an acid soak.
> ...


The ad is listed as WYSIWYG and for being prewashed. I doubt these rocks even knew what water was. The reason I posted this is to let others be aware what what they are actually getting won't be what it was after a good cleaning. The rocks were very dirty which mask their true color. True Seiryu Stones look like pic number one even while being submerged in all the online pics I have seen. I question whether or not the seller is mislabeling the rocks and selling them as such. I am okay with the outcome for I am not upset with the transformation. A thorough cleaning whether it strips the weathering or not is of little concern for me. A bleach soak isn't good enough for me. I want to make sure all organics or what not on the rock dissolves prior to being put in a tank. This is my 8th different set of rock types that I have soaked in acid as others fizzed as well. This is the only one that is a night and day transformation which is why I question if its truely Seiryu Stones.



Raith said:


> What did you soak the rocks with?


Its listed above. Muriatic Acid.



Solcielo lawrencia said:


> Are the rocks in the second picture still wet?


You would think huh, lol. But nope, they are dried to the touch in pic. They are not porous but I will monitor them in the weeks to come. At least 12 hrs had elapsed before I took that 2nd pic.


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## Riceman (Nov 17, 2014)

They had to have been painted.


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## lamiskool (Jul 1, 2011)

dang thats a huge difference! Im almost positive that those are not real sieryu stone as ive seen people acid wash real sieryu stone and they dont change colors like that...


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## Dead2fall (Jun 4, 2014)

I'm glad you're happy with what you ended up with. That being said, if they were painted or doctored that's not cool at all.


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## greenteam (Feb 8, 2012)

That looks nothing at all like the real sieryu stones I had in my tank. I would avoid getting then if you want the real sieryu look and check out the ones called utah dragon stone.

Shame you didn't get what you paid for very misleading.


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## Riceman (Nov 17, 2014)

OK,sorry if I started any hard feelings or accusations with my painted comment.
I did a search and found this thread.
There is a photo on post #9

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CAUQjhw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.plantedtank.net%2Fforums%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D184700&ei=VhNyVPy5L4muogSh_IHYBw&bvm=bv.80185997,d.cGU&psig=AFQjCNEHOOhgHeu3pP5av9y3Fev5UDrYzA&ust=1416848499734975


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## flight50 (Apr 17, 2012)

I doubt very seriously they were painted. You can't paint dirt on a rock, at least not that I know of. The link you gave does look just like my rocks after the soak. I just haven't witness such a change yet from using muriatic acid. The seller did reiterate that they are Seiryu but there really is no telling. Seiryu exports stopped years back so I wonder were today's Seiryu stones are sourced from.


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## Vermino (Jun 14, 2012)

Japan isn't the only place they come from. I've seen ohko stones originate from parts of Europe, Japan, China, Canada, and even the US itself. So for Seiryu stones to only be found in Japan is highly unlikely (even though in my time of doing research on them, I might of said they were). It's just cheaper to buy from China/Japan and ship them compared to say Europe or US.

Now a theory here is that the exporting company in Japan could be giving them a mud bake ontop of the seiryu stones before shipping them out. This would make sure they clear customs and still be able to sell, just under a different stone name of course.

Still very nice improvement from the starting pictures; like finding a diamond in the rough!


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## lamiskool (Jul 1, 2011)

Man what a surprise, Pole have told me they acid washed their stones to bring out the white veins but I didn't know it also changes the color of the rock that much!


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

I don't know the seller or really have an interest in the deal but I might see how this could happen without any plan on the sellers side. These look very much like the rocks I often see in the woods. If one is not really up on the definition of one rock versus another, it is easy to call a rock by the wrong name. For instance can anybody really agree on what a Texas holey rock has to look like to be real? 
Just as we all have common local names for what may be the same fish, there are likely several rocks that could be called Seiryu stones. 
Obviously the buyer and the seller thought they "looked" right. And I know of no artist that could possibly paint a rock to look like that natural weathering. 
So bottom line might be that both buyer and seller made a deal for rocks which turned out different looking after a pretty severe cleaning. Muriatic takes the top surface off brick and tile and makes them look different so why would we not expect it to change the appearance of a rock?


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## flight50 (Apr 17, 2012)

Vermino said:


> Japan isn't the only place they come from. I've seen ohko stones originate from parts of Europe, Japan, China, Canada, and even the US itself. So for Seiryu stones to only be found in Japan is highly unlikely (even though in my time of doing research on them, I might of said they were). It's just cheaper to buy from China/Japan and ship them compared to say Europe or US.
> 
> Now a theory here is that the exporting company in Japan could be giving them a mud bake ontop of the seiryu stones before shipping them out. This would make sure they clear customs and still be able to sell, just under a different stone name of course.
> 
> Still very nice improvement from the starting pictures; like finding a diamond in the rough!


I haven't found anything on the web stating that Seiryu stones originate outside of the Seiryu region in Japan. Now there are places that have them for sale all over just like ohko, manten, ryu and all the other popular stones. But availability for purchase is different from its origin. Supporting evidence of the stone's origin from other locations seems to be non-existent on the web thru my researches. I can definitely see the fudging of exporting seriyu stones by giving them a mud bake. This would explain why its still available despite the stoppage of deporting but it comes at a cost to hobbyist.

Now with that said, since my original post, there have been others that have gave these stone the acid dip with similar results that I have found. Perhaps this rock just has a chemical reaction to acid unlike my other rocks. I was thinking about making a video of the process but I found one on youtube that is similar. Mine just fizzed way more and actually overflowed my container in which was very similar sized.



. 

I would definitely purchase more from the seller that sales here on TPT if need be, for I really like the rocks. I treat all my rocks the same by giving them the dip. Apparently some just go thru a bigger transformation than others. Beauty is only skin deep I suppose.


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## lochaber (Jan 23, 2012)

I know that the term "Seiryu" is very specific as to stones coming from a certain area, but in a more general sense, they are basically just heavily weathered limestone. 

Limestone has a very distinctive weathering pattern unlike other rocks, due to the way carbonic acid (from atmospheric CO2) in the rain reacts with the carbonates in the rock.

I can understand the color change, as the acid bath would strip off the scratched/banged up outer layer (which is almost always light colored), in addition to wetting the rock. I've lived in areas with a lot of limestone, and it was pretty common to find rocks that were white on the outside, but a blue color on the inside.

On a tangent, I'm wondering how difficult it would be to set up something to give regular limestone rocks an acid "shower", in an attempt to quickly produce that type of weathering pattern...


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

The coloring of rocks is always something of interest to me. I have often lived where limestone is the dominant type and I find it can vary a whole lot in the way nature colors the outside. In much of the center of the US, limestone can be found in colors from pure white to almost yellow when looking at the newly cut stone. Here in the Central Texas area, it tends to come with a somewhat yellow color when cut. 
But then what color you get on the exposed parts can vary a lot from light grey to almost black. One way to tell directions when lost in the woods is by looking at limestone outcroppings. The sun bleaches the South side and shade makes the North side darker.


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