# substrate removal while tank is full



## LLongjr (Apr 1, 2015)

I have an 80gallon tank and im using Eco Complete and it just looks like a mess, its faded, its mixed colors. I really dislike it. All my plants are ferns that are attached to wood. How stressful to the fish would it be if I removed all the substrate while they are still in there? id do a water change while stuff got kicked up. 

The tank will be with out substrate for a while, then I will add substrate back in once I purchase the new stuff im going to. I will add this while they are in the aquarium as well. 

It seems in my mind that it would be less stressful than trying to fish them out.


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## roostertech (Oct 27, 2015)

One thing to consider with older tank is if you will be releasing trapped gas at the bottom of the substrate. So maybe it is safer to just take the fish out.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

I think you would stress them more by leaving them in the tank. I've torn my tanks down several times and just moved all my fish into a spare tank or 5G buckets. I either use an air stone or run my filter hoses to the bucket while I'm rescaping. Like I said earlier I've done this several times and never lost a fish.


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## Kathyy (Feb 22, 2010)

I would wait until you have the new substrate in hand and remove fish, dump out the water, install new substrate, rescape and fill tank too.

If you have really good suction on your siphon you could remove substrate that way which likely would not release so much nasty stuff into the water. It isn't as easy as it sounds as try to move too much and the siphon is going to clog up.

I've completely stirred up substrate without losing fish but all the particulates settled on the plants and in combination with the release of who knows what the tank experienced a monster algal bloom. It really is better to be able to remove the dirty water to a point below the substrate so you are basically rinsing the substrate in the tank.


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## roostertech (Oct 27, 2015)

Another thing is fresh new substrate might leech ammonia (like ada soil). So you might have to age the substrate first before doing the swap if you want to get the fish back into the tank soon.


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## LLongjr (Apr 1, 2015)

Im going with coal slag, black magic. only fish I have are rummy nose tetra, I guess I'll fish them out. I have a 5 gallon nano they could hang out in for a big.


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## bsantucci (Sep 30, 2013)

Like others said, I'd wait for the new substrate and then remove the fish. It may sound easier to leave them in, but much easier and less stress to remove.

I'm actually going through the same thing next week with my 50g. Removing all plants, about 90lbs of eco complete and putting in FlorinVolcanit.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

LLongjr said:


> Im going with coal slag, black magic. only fish I have are rummy nose tetra, I guess I'll fish them out. I have a 5 gallon nano they could hang out in for a big.


FYI, if this is the first time using blasting sand, rinse it very well. There is an oily substance that you should rinse off before putting it into the tank. I don't think it's harmfull, but it is unsightly.


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## shrimpNewbie (May 6, 2011)

Nlewis said:


> FYI, if this is the first time using blasting sand, rinse it very well. There is an oily substance that you should rinse off before putting it into the tank. I don't think it's harmfull, but it is unsightly.


If it has an oily substance I'd be weary, I know people use it with success but I'd still soak with vinegar.

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## SNAXX (Dec 30, 2015)

roostertech said:


> One thing to consider with older tank is if you will be releasing trapped gas at the bottom of the substrate. So maybe it is safer to just take the fish out.


Yes this is true. Also, You may have an enormous amount of fish waste in your substrate. Removing the substrate will release all of that into your water column. It's not a gamble I would want to take with my fish.

So changing the substrate with fish in is a bad idea. I've heard it being done in increments. Like 1/3 at a time. I wouldn't want to try that personally. Breaking the tank down and replacing the whole substrate all at once gives you more control of how the the finished product turns out. If you save at least half the water in the tank, and keep your filter media wet while you do the switch out, you can change the substrate without starting a new cycle. If you're intersted in this method I can go into detail of how I did just that with my 72 gallon this past holiday season. I didn't get so much as a high nitrate reading using this method. Admittedly I had only 2 fish at the time. There are steps you can take to keep your fish healthy if you have a heavily stocked tank though.


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## bsantucci (Sep 30, 2013)

To add, you can also dump a bottle of tetra safe start into the tank after the change to make sure you don't get a mini cycle. I plant to inject it in to my new substrate next week with a syringe after its all set up. 

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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

I did that once with a 72G. If your not in a rush you can do it. What I did was simply to suck out a small portion of the existing substrate with filter tubing. Added some of the new substrate in it's place and did a water change. I repeated this over several weeks until all the substrate was eventually replaced. It didn't remove any of the fish, there was no cloudy water and the cycle didn't get disrupted.


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## Cheetah2 (Nov 24, 2015)

Before I had siphons and hoses made for tanks, I used a cut off garden hose to siphon the water. It easily sucked up heavy substrate like Flourite if I put it too close.


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## Kathyy (Feb 22, 2010)

houseofcards said:


> I did that once with a 72G. If your not in a rush you can do it. What I did was simply to suck out a small portion of the existing substrate with filter tubing. Added some of the new substrate in it's place and did a water change. I repeated this over several weeks until all the substrate was eventually replaced. It didn't remove any of the fish, there was no cloudy water and the cycle didn't get disrupted.


How did you put in the new stuff? Bottle method? Tube? Just submerged a cup of rinsed stuff?


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

I recently switched out the substrate in my 120G planted Rainbow tank. Took out regular pea gravel and replaced with Black Diamond Blasting Sand.

I know it may not be popular, but I didn't remove the fish. Follow this procedure at your own risk. I can only say what worked for me. 

I started by removing the plants. I wrapped each bunch in paper towel, and put them into a cooler filled with water.

Next I did a long thorough vacuuming of the gravel. Created quite a mess. Next I started scooping out the gravel. Kept a pump running the entire time draining the tank. This part is not for the faint of heart. Things get even more messy quick.

When the tank got low, I started filling it back up, alternating between draining and filling.

Next I started adding the Black Diamond. Didn't rinse it, just put it right into the tank. Kept draining and filling the entire time.

Then I let started the filters back up, and let it sit. About an hour later it was pretty clear already. Put the driftwood and plants back in.

I closely monitored for ammonia the next few days. I did have a very light spike, no more than .25, but did 50% water changes for a few days after. 

Did that about two months ago, and fish and plants are all doing great. 

Again, perform at your risk. I'd hate for it not to go as well for someone else as it did for me.


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## Kathyy (Feb 22, 2010)

Do you think this saved you any time or effort? Granted fish catching isn't fun but seems to me removing plants, hardscape then fish, draining tank, changing substrate then being able to redo the scape and planting when you can see what you are doing would in the end be easier.

I've done both and I won't be doing major rescapes with fish in the tank again.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

Kathyy said:


> How did you put in the new stuff? Bottle method? Tube? Just submerged a cup of rinsed stuff?


Yes, I used a submerged cup and over a few weeks had the entire substrate replaced. I did a few cups worth each time and always put suction on the area that I was exchanging. I didn't take anything out of the tank.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Kathyy said:


> Do you think this saved you any time or effort? Granted fish catching isn't fun but seems to me removing plants, hardscape then fish, draining tank, changing substrate then being able to redo the scape and planting when you can see what you are doing would in the end be easier.
> 
> I've done both and I won't be doing major rescapes with fish in the tank again.


Kathy I think you were directing that to me.

I think it did save time, as I have over 40 fish. That would require lots of containers and lots of time netting. My own opinion is that it may have been less stressful on the fish, considering they weren't netted twice. 

And as to seeing what you are doing, the tank was basically clear after about an hour of the filters running. And the tank was completely rescaped and crystal clear about 5 hours after I began.

I understand doing it both ways. And everyone should do what is comfortable for them. I've always felt fish are pretty hardy, and a couple hours of mayhem left them no worse for wear. After considering all options, I really didn't see any great benefit to the fish by removing them. But that's just me, and it was well within my comfort zone.


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## Wetsleeve (Feb 15, 2016)

I've been using borax to rinse things without issue. I plan to rescape my twenty this upcoming weekend. I will catch all of my fish (the hard part) and put them in a 5 Gal. bucket along with the sponge filter. The bucket will be filled with tank water.


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## MoreyFan (Jul 3, 2014)

Wetsleeve said:


> I've been using borax to rinse things without issue. I plan to rescape my twenty this upcoming weekend. I will catch all of my fish (the hard part) and put them in a 5 Gal. bucket along with the sponge filter. The bucket will be filled with tank water.


I was thinking of buying a sponge filter just for this purpose. Throw it int he tank for a week or two then pop it in the bucket or spare tank you put the fish in when rescaping.


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## MrFishTank5372 (Dec 18, 2015)

Move the fishes to another tank, while you do the changing. disturbing the subs with fish in it will only release ammonia and stress the poor little guys.


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## Fury and opie (11 mo ago)

Greggz said:


> I recently switched out the substrate in my 120G planted Rainbow tank. Took out regular pea gravel and replaced with Black Diamond Blasting Sand.
> 
> I know it may not be popular, but I didn't remove the fish. Follow this procedure at your own risk. I can only say what worked for me.
> 
> ...


How did you get away with not rinsing black diamond. I rinsed it 5 times and it still made a huge brown mud puddle of my tank.


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## Opie. X fury (11 mo ago)

LLongjr said:


> I have an 80gallon tank and im using Eco Complete and it just looks like a mess, its faded, its mixed colors. I really dislike it. All my plants are ferns that are attached to wood. How stressful to the fish would it be if I removed all the substrate while they are still in there? id do a water change while stuff got kicked up.
> 
> The tank will be with out substrate for a while, then I will add substrate back in once I purchase the new stuff im going to. I will add this while they are in the aquarium as well.
> 
> It seems in my mind that it would be less stressful than trying to fish them out.


I tore my whole tank down today...betta went in the temporary tank along with all his decorations and water from big tank. I put all the gravel into large mesh bags u can use any size...and placed them half inch away from all walls in a slope.then dumped 9 pounds of black contra soil and 2 inches or red flourite to cap it. Betta is doing just fine in the temp tank and I'm waiting a few days before putting him back. To make sure the water parameters are good. But So far so good. It only been 4 hours so we'll see. I know an experienced guy at the fish store that gives me the best advice. This is the method he told me to use. He said no way do you leave the fish in while changing substrate. Too much can go wrong.


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