# Plant shipping revisited *again*



## mrkookm (Apr 4, 2007)

Below are some pics of a friend of mine who has received plants (Pogo Stellatus & HC) from one particular member who keeps on packing the plants *INCORRECTLY *even though it was suggested how to do it right. But not only did the seller pack it incorrectly *AGAIN*, he added an icepack to it as well :icon_roll because he thought it was the heat the first time around.

What you see below is what happens to plants when you wrap them up in too much paper towel and pour water into the bag....it will turn to *MUSH.*

The seller replied to my friend that it was the heat that caused it, but my question to him is why did it happen to the shipmemt that had the ice pack??? All that is needed in the zip lock back *is enough moisture to keep the plants from drying out*, you are not shipping fish, so we do not need to add water guys  . 

Making the paper towel waterlogged adds mass *which causes more movement of the plant as it bounces within the ziplock bag when thrown*....this is something you do not want to happen either. This is the reason when I pack I fold my zip lock in such a way as to prevent movement. See my feedback on shipping, it's like that because I put effort into shipping, something most fail to do just as the seller who sent the plants below did.

There are numerous threads on how to pack and ship plants well, so I suggest that anyone who decides sell should take the time and read those threads before having to put someone through your lack of experience.

BTW the seller did try to make it right by sending more plants, but whats the use if more (cooler) mush is sent..... I think a refund is in order.


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## hooha (Mar 14, 2004)

a way to think about this is that plants can survive in 90 degree weather EMERSED, but will die in 90 degree water SUBMERSED. Put any plant in water that hot and it will die....taking the unneeded water out of the equation and putting them essentially in a 'emersed' condition with just enough water to keep the humidity up during transit (which is very little) and you'll have packages that arrive with no problems every time.


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## Adhlc (May 4, 2008)

YIKES! I wouldn't pay money for THAT. Sorry to hear about it though, I hope everything gets worked out for you.


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## mrkookm (Apr 4, 2007)

hooha said:


> a way to think about this is that plants can survive in 90 degree weather EMERSED, but will die in 90 degree water SUBMERSED. Put any plant in water that hot and it will die....taking the unneeded water out of the equation and putting them essentially in a 'emersed' condition with just enough water to keep the humidity up during transit (which is very little) and you'll have packages that arrive with no problems every time


.

Thanks for elaborating hooha.




> YIKES! I wouldn't pay money for THAT. Sorry to hear about it though, I hope everything gets worked out for you.


Thats not mine and you best believe I would have gotten my money back, but my friend is a easy going guy. 

I just think this it's unacceptable for some one to take a loss when clearly the seller does know how to pack plants.

BTW I saw these stems in person so I know what I'm talking about.


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## CobraGuppy (Sep 23, 2007)

So should you soak a piece of paper in water and take as much access off as you can, then wrap the plant?


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## AaronT (Apr 11, 2004)

Here's how I do it....

Shipping plants too wet is the biggest reason for plants arriving as plant soup on a hot day.

Plants should always be trimmed the day of shipment or the night before with the exception of very hardy plants such as ferns, Anubias and mosses.

Place the plants on an old cotton towel and gently pat them somewhat dry.
Run a paper towel (don't go cheap or you'll spend all day trying to unravel them without tearing them) under water or dip it in the tank and wring it out as hard as you can.
Unfold the paper towel and gently wrap the plants in the paper towel.
Put the wrapped plants in a fish bag and tightly tie the end of the bag.
Place it in the shipping box and send it on its way.

You can use filter floss or pillow stuffing to wrap more delicate plants in in place of the paper towel. It is not necessary to wet the floss.

I've mailed literally hundreds of shipments this way with maybe one DOA and only when the shipment has been delayed for weeks.


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## rich815 (May 21, 2008)

After trimming I simply let the plants drip for about 10 seconds over the aquarium, into a ziploc baggie they go slightly wet but not sopping (separate baggie for each type!! I hate playing Untangle the Different Plants game), then zipped closed but with some slight air in there to provide some cushion. Then I place them into a box either lined with styrofoam boards and then cushioned with peanuts or with a load of bubble wrap or soft crumpled paper. I do it in a way that the plants are packed tightly as to immobilize but not so tight as to get crushed. If an ice pack is added I first place the ice pack too into a sealed ziploc baggie and then tape it heavily to the top lid flap so it will not touch or get too close to the plants. Shipping USPS Priority typically takes 2-3 days from the west coast to almost anywhere in the US in my experience though every once and a while the USPS mistakenly re-directs a package and it has taken up to 5 days. In ok weather even that should still allow over 70% of the plants to survive.

Plants that I have rec'd that were either mush or just stems with detached leaves were either packed in too much water and were floating (this gives them the tumbling "washing machine" treatment the whole way over), or the ice pack was stuffed in right up next to the plants with ice cold touching them through the plastic. I have never used paper towels.


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## mrkookm (Apr 4, 2007)

If I'm using paper towel to wrap certain plants I usually separate the sheets to reduce weight cut into 3 x 4 sheets, damp and then wrap plants. 

When I'm shipping regular stuff I skip the paper towel all together, dip the plants in water, shake off the excess, place it neatly in the bag and then begin folding the bag to maintain the plant placement and restrict movement.


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## rice n curry man (Jun 18, 2008)

Looks like chinese stir fry! yummy


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## Ryzilla (Oct 29, 2005)

soak a paper towel under running water. Squeeze out as much water as physically possible. wrap plants in damp towel and place in an air tight bag. You are now ready to ship.:thumbsup:

There should be a sticky in the S&S for shipping methods that work and don't work. That way it is a good reference guide for successful swapping and shopping.


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## helgymatt (Dec 7, 2007)

Good infor here guys. I usually wrap the plants in a paper towel, dip the plants wrapped in the towel in the tank, let the excess drip off, and then stick in a bag. I havn't had much trouble with my plants, but maybe even this is leaving them too wet? I just got a package the other day...everything was fine but the Blyxa. In my experience this plant is especially sensitive.


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## rich815 (May 21, 2008)

In my experience plants in wet paper towels come in more often in worse shape than ones in nothing but a baggie. I think sometimes the paper towel keeps them too wet.


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## mrkookm (Apr 4, 2007)

> dip the plants wrapped in the towel in the tank, let the excess drip off, and then stick in a bag.


That is too much 

When you get shipment that are packed right the condition is without a doubt excellent and will seem as if it was just pulled from the tank...not just fine


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## helgymatt (Dec 7, 2007)

mrkookm said:


> When you get shipment that are packed right the condition is without a doubt excellent and will seem as if it was just pulled from the tank...not just fine


Nicely said!


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## flanders (May 3, 2008)

Ryzilla said:


> There should be a sticky in the S&S for shipping methods that work and don't work. That way it is a good reference guide for successful swapping and shopping.


Exactly!

I've packed plants with just a little bit of air, a little damp from tank, and place a 1X1" of folded wet paper towel, to provide a little moisture. Then I just make sure everything can't move around too much.


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

And it should go without saying that plants must be shipped in a 3-D BOX and not in a bubble envelope. If I want squashed plants with damaged leaves, I'll step on them myself... It is the same price (free box from USPS), so there's no real argument to using them.

I've received plants twice this way from forum members and had to learn them a thing or two in PMs so they didn't do it again to others.


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## rich815 (May 21, 2008)

macclellan said:


> .....If I want squashed plants with damaged leaves, I'll step on them myself...


:icon_lol: :icon_lol: :icon_lol: LOL!!


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## Wö£fëñxXx (Dec 2, 2003)

I never use paper towels or add water.
If it is a delicate plant, I wrap in floss lightly, drop it in a ziplock
seal it, then open a small section and blow the bag up=02/C02
UG, HC, Tonina's, Erio's, I have had very very few problems
in the hundreds of packages I have shipped.

I have had delicate plants shipped to me in bags of water & substrate :icon_roll 
that were heavily damaged & wrapped in paper which flattens
a plant nicely, so please don't ever do that.  ever
A bag of air is all you need, and a priority box! not a envelope... idiot
:biggrin:


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## rich815 (May 21, 2008)

I'm confused by those using wet paper towels to add moisture. A wet plant freshly taken from a tank and immediately placed into a ziploc bag and sealed will retain close to 100% of it's moisture over the few days of shipment since the baggie is sealed closed.


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## PRESTON4479 (Mar 22, 2007)

I like to put them right into a zip lock bag after cutting with a tiny bit of moisture to keep the humidity high in the bag during shipment and blow some air into the bag to help keep them from getting smashed in shipment.


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## PRESTON4479 (Mar 22, 2007)

rich815 said:


> I'm confused by those using wet paper towels to add moisture. A wet plant freshly taken from a tank and immediately placed into a ziploc bag and sealed will retain close to 100% of it's moisture over the few days of shipment since the baggie is sealed closed.


Agreed!


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## AaronT (Apr 11, 2004)

rich815 said:


> I'm confused by those using wet paper towels to add moisture. A wet plant freshly taken from a tank and immediately placed into a ziploc bag and sealed will retain close to 100% of it's moisture over the few days of shipment since the baggie is sealed closed.


If you've ever kept an emersed setup with high humidity, say 90% to 100% you'll notice that a lot of the time leaves that touch each other will eventually melt because they are wet and hot. 

By allowing the plants to dry a little bit and patting them with a soft cotton towel (some plants are too delicate for this part) you allow the leaves themselves to not melt each other. 

Following this up by wrapping gently in a damp paper towel (wrung out as much as possible) puts enough moisture into the package to keep the humidity levels high enough and wicks moisture away from the plants themselves. 

I've shipped literally several hundreds of packages in this manner with a 99% success rate. :biggrin:


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## CobraGuppy (Sep 23, 2007)

Haha, and the funny thing is that if you ship it the correct way, it will most likely cost less because the package weighs less without that extra water.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

We know what will happen to wet hot plants but what about wet cold plants? 

I recieved some plants from a forum member and he kindly threw in some extra green rotala "narrrow leaf". I recived the package at home and wanted to put the rotala in my tank at work. So I just put the plants in a ziplick bag by themselves, no towel or anything. When I left home I threw the plants in the plastic grocery bag I had my lunch in for easy carrying.

When I got to wotk (~9 am) I just threw the bag in the fridge with out thinking about the rotala. It wasnt untill lunch when I removed the bag to get some food I remembered the plants! I took them out of the bag and as cold as they were just put them in the tank hoping for the best.

Now, a week later the plant not only has not lost one leaf but is growing wonderfully in its new home. Would the outcome have been the same if it were wrapped in a sopping wet paper towel and then thrown in the fridge for 3+ hours?


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## Robert H (Apr 3, 2003)

> I'm confused by those using wet paper towels to add moisture. A wet plant freshly taken from a tank and immediately placed into a ziploc bag and sealed will retain close to 100% of it's moisture over the few days of shipment since the baggie is sealed closed.


Exactly. The plants need to remain moist without drying out. You can do that with paper towels or a number of other ways. Paper towels offer no further protection other than holding moisture. It is a very simple process. Growers often ship plants in vacum sealed bags, with most of the air squeezed out and no water other than what was on the plants when it was put in the bag. Aaron and his fellow club members have come up with a way that I guess works for them, but... 

High temps are still a problem no matter what you do. The only extra protection you can give is to use a styrofoam box or some other kind of thermal insulation with a cold pack that will hold a temperature for a period of time. Any extra effort made to protect plants in extreme weather is usually worth the effort.

People always keep plants in a fridge or cooler. Produce, flowers, seedlings, you name it. When I get my shipments of plants at the airport, they are stored in a cooler until I pick them up. While the plants are kept cool they are preserved. As soon as they are exposed to warm air they become vulnerable again. Even plants sitting in a sealed box will last longer than those sitting in an open box at room temp.



> Haha, and the funny thing is that if you ship it the correct way, it will most likely cost less because the package weighs less without that extra water./QUOTE]
> 
> Shipping plants in bags of water is just plain dumb
> 
> ...


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## PRESTON4479 (Mar 22, 2007)

Robert H said:


> Most people blow C02, not air! Filling the space in the box around the plant with anything, newspaper, peanuts, whatever will keep the plants from shifting and prevent breakage.


Sorry, I didn't think there was a need to be that particular when making the statement. I stand corrected.


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## fishbguy1 (Feb 29, 2008)

bsmith782 said:


> We know what will happen to wet hot plants but what about wet cold plants?
> 
> I recieved some plants from a forum member and he kindly threw in some extra green rotala "narrrow leaf". I recived the package at home and wanted to put the rotala in my tank at work. So I just put the plants in a ziplick bag by themselves, no towel or anything. When I left home I threw the plants in the plastic grocery bag I had my lunch in for easy carrying.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure why it is, but when plants are cold (not freezing) their growth slows down. But they don't die. This is why florests keep their flowers in refridgedors. It keeps them from opening, and thus, last longer.


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## CobraGuppy (Sep 23, 2007)

Might be a silly question, but when you make it so that there is air in the bag to not smush it, should you blow it or just put regular air in?


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## PRESTON4479 (Mar 22, 2007)

CobraGuppy said:


> Might be a silly question, but when you make it so that there is air in the bag to not smush it, should you blow it or just put regular air in?


I just blow into the bag add a few drops of water and sometimes filter floss.


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## hooha (Mar 14, 2004)

PRESTON4479 said:


> Sorry, I didn't think there was a need to be that particular when making the statement. I stand corrected.


Air is still a correct term for what comes out of the lungs when you exhale. The amount of CO2 added and O2 removed from the air you breathe in in really not that much - it's still basically 'air'.


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## mrkookm (Apr 4, 2007)

Well I hope the point is coming across clearly to all those individuals who are selling plants. Don't sell if you do not understand how to do the above because you leave a bad taste in the buyers mouth and make it harder for the good guys who tries to sell plants.

Here are a few things I've learnt along the way:

*1)* There is no need to to sell stems above 10" or worse 20+" :hihi: tall with roots and all. Maybe for a newb this sounds like you are selling something but it shows inexperience IMO. 

*2)* Length of stems should to max of 7" or as tall as your ziplock bag allows without bending a plant. If the plant is indeed taller, use a bigger bag/ box which prevents the stems from being bent.

*3)* Do not wrap the plants up in water logged paper towel. This does not mean a a paper towel cannot be used because it can if done right. This is how I've shipped well over a hundred Erios that I've sold. Basically I use it to keep the leaves intact not to provide moisture by folding them like a cigar in either 5 x 2 or 4 x 2 sheets and then damp the towel. Some use filter floss which works great but I do the above with good success.

*4)* Do not pour water in the zip lock bag.

*5)* Fold the zip lock bag in such a way as to prevent movement in the bag and secure the zip lock in you box. When the P.O guys are unloading/loading the boxes it prevents the plant from bouncing about causing more damage.

*6) *Do not cut stems and leave it in a bucket of water for 'days' as you figure of the sale.

*7)* *Give accurate description of what you are selling* or even better post pictures. *If you are selling subpar, deficient & algae ridden stems I'm sure the buyer would like to know that*. Leave it up to them to make a decision to get it even if conditions are'nt good. Don't give them a surpise because thats when problems arise.


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## crshadow (Sep 4, 2003)

Thought I'd chime in with a pic of some plants I sent out recently. The pic shows how the bag is filled with air, and just enough moisture to have some condensation on the inside. This method has always worked great for me. In the case of really tender plants, something like filter floss/poly-fill, as previously mentioned, works really well to keep the plants from sticking to the side of the bag.










-Jeremiah


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## PRESTON4479 (Mar 22, 2007)

crshadow said:


> Thought I'd chime in with a pic of some plants I sent out recently. The pic shows how the bag is filled with air, and just enough moisture to have some condensation on the inside. This method has always worked great for me. In the case of really tender plants, something like filter floss/poly-fill, as previously mentioned, works really well to keep the plants from sticking to the side of the bag.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I like it!!! Thats all you really need to do. :icon_bigg


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## rich815 (May 21, 2008)

Who am I to question what you have said works but to me that looks like too much room to me and that the plant could bounce around in transit.


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Sorry to bring up an old thread but...

Yikes guilty as charged! Guess I've been fairly lucky with shipments so far other than a snafu with some red cherries which I doubt I'll try again for a while. 

I'll be changing shipping practices now. Thanks for the schooling! I think it would be hugely benificial to have a proven shipping methods thread stickied in the swap&shop. 

I know I've received plants from most of you before and I should have taken notice of the methods and learned from the fantastic condition of the plants. Doh!


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## narhay (Feb 28, 2007)

Bump. Any methods on how to ship shrimp?


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## ryantube (Jan 8, 2012)

narhay said:


> Bump. Any methods on how to ship shrimp?


Kordon breathing bag filled with as much water as it can hold, in a Styrofoam lining priority box. Regional Flat Rate Box A is my favorite. Perfect for up to 40 shrimps.


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## acitydweller (Dec 28, 2011)

very informative thread.

Another hobbyist recommended applying layers of bagging for insulation and it just works. Each offers protection from compaction, another zone to dampen temps and holds the plants stationery. Of course the method of packing also vary by plant type.e.g. stems, full plants like erios, mosses.

Do not go cheap on the size of the box either. Going large in itself actually offers additional space for insulation. I use glad storage containers for firm leafed plants where some go cheap and persist in using sauce containers from restaurants. 

The worst offenders often put all their plants into a large bag where it gets tumbled and tossed in transit.

Nothing conveys care and consideration more than taking the time to pack plants in individual bags (even single stems) and labeling the species. Some people are just in it for profit with shipping habits often conveying it.


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## Silenced (Aug 20, 2012)

liven and learn


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## jbrady33 (Jun 7, 2012)

Guilty of some of these, especially multiple types of plants in one big bag. Usually shipped with live ramhorns so I do add some water on there too - but all of my shipments have been "Here, take all my trims from today" RAOK's, not sales.


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