# Sudden Cory "sucked in" stomach and death.



## aznartist34 (Nov 19, 2010)

What are you feeding them?


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## sublimescorpio (Nov 6, 2011)

This happen, well is happening, to me as well. I lost 1 since I posted that thread.. Just switched food today and hoping it'll help the few I have left....
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/fish/161274-pygmy-cories-68-8-why-what.html


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## Jayme (Nov 27, 2011)

aznartist34 said:


> What are you feeding them?


I feed hikari algae wafers, API sinking community pellets, fresh cucumber, frozen peas, frozen spinach, fresh carrots, and then the stuff the rasboras let fall which is hikari micro pellets and a couple different types of flake. I vary foods to try and keep a better rounded diet. The corys don't eat everything but I try and give everyone options. And maybe once every other week the tank gets frozen bloodworms.

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## unissuh (Jun 5, 2006)

How old is your substrate and do you ever stir it up? If you were to stir it now, do you notice many bubbles coming out or a bad smell?

Sometimes substrate that goes anaerobic can lead to poisonous gas build up. If a nosy cory roots around in the wrong spot, it can get a face full of gas and keel over. 

Or so the story goes anyway. Can't say it's ever happened to me, but it's not an uncommon explanation for sudden death.


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## thefisherman (Oct 15, 2011)

unissuh said:


> How old is your substrate and do you ever stir it up? If you were to stir it now, do you notice many bubbles coming out or a bad smell?
> 
> Sometimes substrate that goes anaerobic can lead to poisonous gas build up. If a nosy cory roots around in the wrong spot, it can get a face full of gas and keel over.
> 
> Or so the story goes anyway. Can't say it's ever happened to me, but it's not an uncommon explanation for sudden death.


holy cow i didn't know this! could this be the reason my cory started "lounging" on its back. hes been missing almost 2 weeks now 

how do i prevent this? shove my pincettes in te gravel every wc?


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## unissuh (Jun 5, 2006)

Yeah, thats probably the most time efficient way to do it. Just have a quick poke around and a little stir in the unplanted spots while you're doing a waterchange. Don't need to cover the tank every time, just a bit. As long as you cover all the unplanted spots every couple of months (or so, there is no real fixed time for this) it doesn't seem to fester too much. If you ever see black patches and gas starting to build up, stir that area more.

Areas with plants should be OK - roots seem to prevent the substrate festering away.

Like I implied though, it's a hypothetical cause of death. Don't know if it's ever been proven but it's the second top explanation that gets thrown around whenever cory sudden deaths happen after bad water quality.


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## wendyjo (Feb 20, 2009)

Cories usually don't dig deep enough to release any gases trapped under the substrate.


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## VW_Factor (Jan 24, 2012)

I know the sand has a gravel mixed in, and the trapdoor snails are usually the diggers. 

Its a shame. He was quarantined last night and didn't make it through the night.


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## Jayme (Nov 27, 2011)

The substrate is only a few months old. I do take the end of the long net and stir it up a bit every couple of weeks. No bubbles come up and no smell. I have floramax as a base and then flourite sand on top but they have mixed a bit in areas due to plant removal.

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## unissuh (Jun 5, 2006)

Do you notice any signs of parasites? May be worth your while worming the fish. I don't know what meds are available in US but it is probably more than we have in Australia - I use a worming medication designed for chickens that has praziquantel and levamisole. It's pretty safe, can be done in situ but no guarantees it will solve your problem. Most habrosus are wild caught as far as I know & can come in with parasites.

May also want to keep a close eye on the barbels of your corys if you're not already - Flourite sand is not what I'd call a cory-friendly substrate. pygmaeus and hastatus might be OK as they don't really dig but the rest run the risk of barbel erosion. Doesn't look like your problem right now, but it could be in the future.



> Cories usually don't dig deep enough to release any gases trapped under the substrate.


I'd like to know what the basis of this claim is 'cause most of the larger corys can easily go a couple of cm into the substrate if they decide to. Depth they usually dig is from tip of the nose almost to eye level...my habrosus can dig in almost a cm at times. If there is a festering patch near the surface it really doesn't take a lot for it to come out...


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## wendyjo (Feb 20, 2009)

Sorry - I guess it depends on the substrate. I have Eco mixed with gravel and my larger albino cories poke around in it a bit but don't seem able to move it , and my dwarfs have no effect on it at all. I've never seen any of them able to actually dig in it - they simply scavange on top and around it. That has been my experience with 4 different types of cories ranging in all sizes. And if he has snails it's doubtful there are gas pockets very close to the surface.


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## Jayme (Nov 27, 2011)

Ok, picked up some PraziPro at The Wet Spot today. Talked with someone down there who thought it could be worms also.

He said it was safe for the shrimp and snails also so I'll start the treatment today and hopefully that will prevent any future Cory deaths. Although now I only have 3 left

EDIT: There probably isn't a way to tell if this is actually working other than no deaths down the road eh? Not sure if I would see any worms passed in poo or anything.


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## unissuh (Jun 5, 2006)

Probably won't see anything in a planted tank - you might if you put them into a bare quarantine tank for treatment. Don't forget to do the gravel vac after treatments to try and remove any parasites that could be re-ingested.



> Sorry - I guess it depends on the substrate.


Ah yes, on this I agree with you. They are less prone to digging in large grained or sharp substrates. It can happen occasionally even on these though.


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## Jayme (Nov 27, 2011)

unissuh said:


> Probably won't see anything in a planted tank - you might if you put them into a bare quarantine tank for treatment. Don't forget to do the gravel vac after treatments to try and remove any parasites that could be re-ingested.


Hmm, this could be a problem since a vac would just suck up all the substrate:/ I can stir it around and try to get any particles off the surface but that's about it I think. I hate my substrate with a passion. :angryfire


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## unissuh (Jun 5, 2006)

Is your gravel vac the standard one with a larger diameter tube then a flexible hose? It's possible to vac Flourite sand with these - you can pinch the hose shut with one hand to control flow when the sand starts to go up the tube. Little critters like seed shrimp, detritus and fish poop all are lighter than the sand so you can quite easily vac them out by this method. If a little gets into the bucket it's also quite easy to tip off the detritus etc while leaving the sand in the bucket that you can then add back into the tank. Trying having a play and see whether it works. I do this to reduce my seed shrimp population with Flourite Sand - works beautifully.


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## Jayme (Nov 27, 2011)

I have several different types. I usually use the Aqueon water changer so I don't break my back. I have the larger Petco sand in a couple small tanks and I can vacuum that like gravel with the water changer but the other ones I have will suck it up.
I'll have to try clamping down a hose on something to see what happens or see if I can get the flow slow enough on the changer to accomplish what you do.


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## Jayme (Nov 27, 2011)

I read about the PraziPro possibly causing a lack of appetite which is most certainly not the case in my fish! I just cooked, skinned, and smashed up some frozen peas for everyone today and even the Rasboras were going nuts trying to eat the larger pieces I had meant for the shrimp and snails to have.

So far everyone is doing just fine and I don't see any adverse effects from the meds.


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## Jayme (Nov 27, 2011)

Well I've since treated with PraziPro twice as recommended and last weekend I used my smaller gravel vac and clamped down the hose to vacuum the entire substrate after removing everything from the tank resulting in a larger than normal water change.

Everyone was doing fine until yesterday another Cory started swimming strange and tonight it is laying almost lifeless on the bottom of the tank at times and floating around aimlessly at others. A second Cory is laying in the corner of the tank almost slightly twitching.

Ammonia, Nitrites, and Nitrates are all 0 as usual. I really wish I knew if I just got a "bad batch" or if there is something I don't know about that is killing my babies one by one:/ Everyone else in the tank is acting normal including the Otos.

I really love the little guys but I would hate to get more and build the "school" back up only to have them continue to die. :icon_cry:


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## wendyjo (Feb 20, 2009)

I wouldn't get any more fish of any type until you stop having deaths for a while.


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## Redneck Badger (Jan 13, 2012)

I read about this before on another forum, someone else had the same problem with their peppered corydoras. This was a copy and paste in someones reply to it. 

Fish Tuberculosis (Mycobacterium) 
S: Fish may lose color and appetite and become hollow-bellied. Fish become lifeless and often crippled–with a bent spine. Fish develop ulcers under the skin and may rupture causing open sores and "pop-eye." 
A: This disease is highly infectious and deleterious. Bacteria can remain living in the gravel to infect other fish when they are weakened. Some success has been achieved by treating infected fish with antibiotics (Oxytetracycline and Kanamycin), although often it is best to kill the fish and put it out of its misery. When removing piscine tuberculosis victims, do so with care, as this disease can be transmitted to humans.

I found this also :- 

Tuberculos - Mycobacteriosis
Syn: fish tuberculosis, piscine tuberculosis, acid-fast disease, granuloma disease.
Symptoms: Emaciation, hollow belly, possibly sores.

Tuberculosis is caused by the bacterium Mycobacterium piscium. Fish infected with tuberculosis may become lethargic, hollow bellied, pale, show skin ulcers and frayed fins, have fin and scale loss, and loss of appetite. Yellowish or darker nodules may appear on the eyes or body and may deform the fish.
The main causes for this disease appears to be over crowding in unkempt conditions; ie. poor water quality. All fish species could be susceptible though some are more susceptible than others. Those most susceptible are the labyrinth air breathers like the Gouramis, Bettas, and Paradise Fish. Others include Neon Tetras, Discus, and the Ram Cichlid.

There is no absolute treatment. However the most effective treatment known for this disease is to treat with Kanamycin and Vitamin B-6 for 30 days. Kanamycin can be purchased at your local fish store. Liquid baby vitamins work well as s Vitamin B-6 source. They are available at your local pharmacy. Add one drop per every 5 gallons of aquarium water during treatment.
If the treatment is ineffective, the best thing to do is destroy the infected fish.
If either unkempt conditions or over crowding are the suspected cause, correct the condition.
It is possible for humans to contract this disease so we recommend using caution when dealing with it. Humans are very rarely are at risk from aquariums though. It is more common to contract this disease from public swimming areas or as a food contaminant


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## Jayme (Nov 27, 2011)

wendyjo said:


> I wouldn't get any more fish of any type until you stop having deaths for a while.


Yeah I don't plan on adding anymore livestock for a while. They will just have to deal with not having a full school I guess.

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## unissuh (Jun 5, 2006)

Mm, it doesn't really sound like TB to me, & if it is, I've never heard of a successful case of treating it ever.

Just a thought, do you have some carbon on hand? If you toss it into the filter, do the deaths stop?


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## acitydweller (Dec 28, 2011)

OMG, sounds like an eventual tear down and redo... especially when it can be communicable to humans... Im so sorry for your loss and what you are going through.


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## ibmikmaq (Aug 19, 2011)

Ph is high probably hard water as well! I have the same ph level in my tap and was experiencing similar loss until I started dosing black water extract! Every water change I do now I mix in the extract with the water I am adding to my tank and I have a few Indian almond leaves in my tank at all time and since never experience another loss!


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## Jayme (Nov 27, 2011)

I had carbon in the filter until I treated with PraziPro so had deaths before with carbon, and now without.

Our ph is high but I keep reading that stable is better than "correct" however I know that isn't true with all livestock, apparently Corys being one.

The newest one that was acting strange went back to normal for a day or two and now is laying on the bottom and I can clearly see the "sucked in" stomach which wasn't there yesterday. I need to euthanize him/her I think. I tried the ice water last time I had to do this and it was NOT instant like everyone said it would be. I'm thinking just put it in water and place in freezer. This is so sad. :icon_cry: 

They don't have any kind of deformities and their color and appetite don't seem to change until the end so I'm not sure about the fish TB. Whatever it is hasn't affected anything else in the tank so far and I've had everything in there for almost 4 months.

I won't be adding anymore livestock and at this point (obviously) and I'm wondering if I should put the remainder of the Corys in a separate tank. I'd hate to just put them in a tiny tank and them be unhappy when they aren't affecting anyone else where they are but if it's something serious, eh. They've all been together for that long already I'm sure if it's contagious it's too late now. Might as well let them live out their lives in a nice environment.


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## BIG_Z (Dec 7, 2011)

+1 for that water in the freezer method..Its slow but the just fall asleep (hopefully before the phrase "OMG I am freezing to death" passes through their little minds) On a side note I am sorry for your loss, I had something odd pop up in my one 75 that killed off around 40 corries in that matter of 2 weeks or so so I know how much it really sucks. As for the separate tank if you are 100% sure that it is not something wrong with your tank then moving them will just be more stress to add to their short lives. Good luck bud.


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