# Setting up at tank to avoid BBA



## Snowflake311 (Apr 20, 2011)

Good circulation, the right amount of light to co2 amount. Don't let the co2 levels change much. 

I use go have bba in my tank but it's been a year now and I am free of it.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

A photograph of a tank? Don't put water in it? No light maybe? :hihi:

Honestly, I am of the belief there is no such thing as a BBA-free tank. Best you do is make the tank as uninviting for BBA as possible.

I think a combination of high CO2 and low light would probably be best. It would be very wasteful, but that combination would most likely not have BBA problems.

Once you start adding light to the mix, BBA has a chance to grow. Even medium amounts of light can be enough. At that point, all the other factors come into play, and you're right back where you started.

So what I think you'd have to do is combine all the conditions known to inhibit BBA, and the two most important are light and CO2. So to do what you're wanting, I'd suggest combining low light with high CO2.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Having said that, I want to add that I believe BBA can be controlled so that it's not a problem without going to such extremes. I believe what has to be done is to fight the BBA when it shows up in the tank without restarting the tank. As the tank matures, it will be less prone to algae which will help with controlling BBA. And the battle of controlling it in the tank will force you to figure out what combination works best for your tank to inhibit the BBA.

When people restart their tanks, all they are doing is repeating what happened the first time around. They may change a few things, but they have not figured out how to beat BBA. They just avoided it. But more importantly, they throw their tank back into the new tank syndrome which makes it much more prone to algae of all types. So now things are right back where they were before, only more time and energy is lost.

The cool thing about fighting the BBA is when you do win, you gain a lot of confidence so if you see BBA in any of your tanks again, it won't get the better of you again. You'll know exactly what to do and will have more patience because you know you can beat it.

It is my recommendation to not restart a tank with BBA, but to push through the problem and come out on the other side. It's well worth the effort and will probably be the closest we can come to a BBA-free tank.


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

Complexity said:


> A photograph of a tank? Don't put water in it? No light maybe? :hihi:
> 
> 
> I think a combination of high CO2 and low light would probably be best. It would be very wasteful, but that combination would most likely not have BBA problems.
> .


i've seen this cause bba in my own tank, i believe there is an upper limit for c02 and bba with lower light levels. not completely low but in the medium low ish range.
it may have already been introduced somehow but i could turn the c02 back down and it would grow slower, maybe it was an inconsistency thing,


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

HD Blazingwolf said:


> i've seen this cause bba in my own tank, i believe there is an upper limit for c02 and bba with lower light levels. not completely low but in the medium low ish range.
> it may have already been introduced somehow but i could turn the c02 back down and it would grow slower, maybe it was an inconsistency thing,


I think BBA has mutated to take over all our tanks no matter what we do. :hihi:

But not to worry. I have H2O2 and know how to use it! :biggrin:


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

Complexity said:


> I think BBA has mutated to take over all our tanks no matter what we do. :hihi:
> 
> But not to worry. I have H2O2 and know how to use it! :biggrin:


you ever done a phosphorous scrub? wicked stuff

make a paste of kh2p04 wither water and scrub...phew kills EVERYTHING..

just don't do it in ur tank unless u plan on flushing it out. works great fior toothbrushing silicone seams as well


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Oh, wow, I've never heard of that! I have lots of KH2PO4 I could play with. I love learning new tricks like this. Thanks!


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## ChadRamsey (Nov 3, 2011)

complexity, thanks for the response. i highly value your input. 

I do plan to reduce my lighting to medium and keep my co2 high. 

There are a few reasons for the redo:

1. Mass amounts of BBA
2. I loath the MTS (MGOPS)
3. Unexplained high nitrate levels 
4. Not happy with present hardscape
5. Want a shrimp friendly tank

The BBA being the main reason though. You see, for the first 5 months or so i was using a sub-par method of injecting co2 into my tank and the BBA has gotten a major foot hold on my substrate, hardscape and any other surface that it pleases. I have since gotten my co2 "right" and have been spot treating the bba. I have removed NON fixed hardscape pieces. And have even hand picked out individual pieces of flourite that have little BBA afros. Before long i wont have much of a cap on my loathed MG.


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

the flourite u can just flip over. it'll die without light .. i=whenever i go on my flourite, i just grabbed a handfull and siftd it around


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

Not a problem, Chad. You don't need a reason to redo your tank. It's your tank. You could use the reason, "I woke up and thought it would be fun to redo it," and that would be good enough. :smile:

However, I must say that I can completely understand why you'd take this step given the situation as a whole. I can especially relate to the MTS loathing. I just redid my 75g for that reason, and I have plans on redoing all my other tanks, as well. Eventually, I hope to make my house an MTS-free zone.

Since you are going to be starting your tank off fresh again, then get lots of fast growing stems to get it up and running. Don't worry what they look like. They're there just to push the plant mass to a high level while the tank is going through the new tank syndrome. At some point, you'll notice the tank will start growing plants as if by magic, and that's when you'll know you're there. Then you can replace the fast growers with slower growing plants or just decrease the overall plant mass all-together (slowly). Just stay away from hornwort, anacharis, and vals since they melt from H2O2 which will be your best weapon against any BBA that tries to get a tiny start in your tank.

Just remember above all else: grow the plants. The more healthy growing plants in the tank, the better the tank can fend off algae.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

HD Blazingwolf said:


> the flourite u can just flip over. it'll die without light .. i=whenever i go on my flourite, i just grabbed a handfull and siftd it around


But he's also wanting to get rid of MTS. That means a total replacement.


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

Complexity said:


> But he's also wanting to get rid of MTS. That means a total replacement.


i can understand completely. i hated it too after the initial first 3 months of loving it


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

HD Blazingwolf said:


> i can understand completely. i hated it too after the initial first 3 months of loving it


Guess I have to agree, I hate my MTS tank too. 
After 3 years I hate mine because it started out NPT but now it has to be classified as MTS because surely all the organics are long gone. 

My oldest and now it's in the marathon catagory. *I hate mine and have other things to do with this foot print but it remains untouched now because of posted topics that turn just like this one. *Posting the last photo currently taken right after a trim on a Med light tank first loaded (wet) *4/30/2009*.
This tank has trace dosing added with water changes (sometimes) and the water changes are not frequent. 

Algae has never kicked me or my fish out of a tank.
Is it for everyone? no 
Is it a mess? no but you can make it that way.

Fertilized by substrate and fish, fish food only. Growth slowed somewhat after about 18 months but is stable and predictable.
Simply love to read posts about how this 'method' doesn't work, creates a mess, doesn't last, creates algae, won't grow plants yada yada. 
I bet I can send ya'all a card at Christmas this year with a pic of the same tank still here. LOL
Pics of the ugly algae infested mess.
























Potting mix, soil, dirt, tree bark, chicken poop (just pick a name), Flourite, 4x32WT8 and sponge equipped power head. 

Don't hate the dirt on the forums just fix you're problems :biggrin:
If enriched substrates aren't you're thing don't use it but don't publish loathing/hating something that works and has for many.
I only setup one MTS system and not interested in doing another but won't say I hate it. PPS, EI dosing just making a list of things I've done and don't anymore but leaving the discussion now and hating nothing.

just kidding about hating any of my soggy dirt containers


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## ChadRamsey (Nov 3, 2011)

i want to make this public and clear.

I LOATH my Miracle Grow MTS. I believe that it is the cause on my nitrates issues. Either i did something wrong during the mineralizing phase or i have something in my MG that shouldnt i have no clue. Yes its probably my fault that it didnt work for some reason. 


Would i consider a cheapo top soil MTS layer under, say Aqua Soil, a THIN layer, yes.


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

I misunderstood. I was talking about the _other_ MTS: Malaysian Trumpet Snails! That's why I dumped my substrate in my 75g. It was full of snails!

I keep forgetting about MTS as Mineralized Top Soil.

Of course, I knew you weren't tired of your MTS, Multiple Tank Syndrom. :hihi:


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

ChadRamsey said:


> i want to make this public and clear.
> 
> I LOATH my Miracle Grow MTS. I believe that it is the cause on my nitrates issues. Either i did something wrong during the mineralizing phase or i have something in my MG that shouldnt i have no clue. Yes its probably my fault that it didnt work for some reason.
> 
> ...


if u get aquasoil don't waste ur time with miracle grow
aquasoil is compacted fired dirt.. it is dirt, just stays round and allows water movement.


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

wkndracer said:


> Guess I have to agree, I hate my MTS tank too.
> After 3 years I hate mine because it started out NPT but now it has to be classified as MTS because surely all the organics are long gone.
> 
> My oldest and now it's in the marathon catagory. *I hate mine and have other things to do with this foot print but it remains untouched now because of posted topics that turn just like this one. *Posting the last photo currently taken right after a trim on a Med light tank first loaded (wet) *4/30/2009*.
> ...


this is totally inaccurate. im hating on dirt forums.. i just hat using dirt in my tanks
this doesnt mean i tell people not to use i


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## syzygy9 (Aug 9, 2010)

Complexity said:


> ...Just stay away from hornwort, anacharis, and vals since they melt from H2O2 which will be your best weapon against any BBA that tries to get a tiny start in your tank.


ugghhh...are you kidding me? i've spent the last month get my anacharis aclimated to Excel. it's really nice and bright green with tighly spaced nodes and growing fast and now i find out that the H2O2 I was planning to apply this weekend might kill it along with my BBA?


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## ChadRamsey (Nov 3, 2011)

Complexity said:


> I misunderstood. I was talking about the _other_ MTS: Malaysian Trumpet Snails! That's why I dumped my substrate in my 75g. It was full of snails!
> 
> I keep forgetting about MTS as Mineralized Top Soil.
> 
> Of course, I knew you weren't tired of your MTS, Multiple Tank Syndrom. :hihi:


HA, really? No i actaully LOVE my MTSnalils. It the MG that i have under the flourite that i hate.

I am setting up a second tank to house my fish while i "redo". Ill keep it up most likely after the redo for just fish, so Multi Tank Syndrome is most likely in my future as well.



HD Blazingwolf said:


> if u get aquasoil don't waste ur time with miracle grow
> aquasoil is compacted fired dirt.. it is dirt, just stays round and allows water movement.


Nice, thx for the info. I guess i better do a bit more research on it.


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## nalu86 (Oct 19, 2010)

I'm about to redo my tank too.
Have the same problem like you have --> MGOPM... BBA + all the other kind of algae.

I'm searching for cheap (72x18 footprint) shrimp+ plant friendly substrate, prob the same like you need. Groupbuy? but first have to find that substrate.


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

nalu86 said:


> I'm about to redo my tank too.
> Have the same problem like you have --> MGOPM... BBA + all the other kind of algae.
> 
> I'm searching for cheap (72x18 footprint) shrimp+ plant friendly substrate, prob the same like you need. Groupbuy? but first have to find that substrate.


If ur looking for a nutrient rich substarte that buffers the water. Look no further than ada aquasoil. I finally got around to using it and man is it awesome! Plants dont grow any faster, but they seem to root faster and i can miss a day of dosing with no ill effects


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## ChadRamsey (Nov 3, 2011)

nalu86 said:


> I'm about to redo my tank too.
> Have the same problem like you have --> MGOPM... BBA + all the other kind of algae.
> 
> I'm searching for cheap (72x18 footprint) shrimp+ plant friendly substrate, prob the same like you need. Groupbuy? but first have to find that substrate.


Could the MG in our area be different than that im other area i wonder? Surely not.


Yes Tom, no dout. A group buy sounds good. 

I was thinking aqua soil. Its NOT cheap though.

We could even post something on AAAA and see if anyone else wanted in on it.


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

nalu86 said:


> I'm about to redo my tank too.
> Have the same problem like you have --> MGOPM... BBA + all the other kind of algae.
> 
> I'm searching for cheap (72x18 footprint) shrimp+ plant friendly substrate, prob the same like you need. Groupbuy? but first have to find that substrate.


Reading opinions this morning regarding capping material and wondered if this is the tank you're talking about here? Made me wonder if its related to this issue? Feel it's doubtful but having never used it I do wonder. I do make a point of avoiding higher waste contents setting up a tank. But then there is Dogfish and his crap tank LOL. There is another thread by Dave-H on BBA where using a high CEC substrate and fixed phosphates on both the sub and driftwood are the suspected culprit. Good luck guys.


nalu86 said:


> In florida, the MGOC Garden Soil has cow manure in it.
> all the other states has some chicken poop in it.
> 
> I use the MGOC Garden Soil in my tank (actually I made a mistake) but, W'll see how it turns out... But I start with a submersed setup and when I flood the tank, Maybe I can change the water couple of times before I put fish in there.


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

double post???


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## nalu86 (Oct 19, 2010)

wkndracer said:


> Reading opinions this morning regarding capping material and wondered if this is the tank you're talking about here? Made me wonder if its related to this issue? Feel it's doubtful but having never used it I do wonder. I do make a point of avoiding higher waste contents setting up a tank. But then there is Dogfish and his crap tank LOL. There is another thread by Dave-H on BBA where using a high CEC substrate and fixed phosphates on both the sub and driftwood are the suspected culprit. Good luck guys.


yes, thats the tank I'm talking about, but I exchanged the substrate to MGO Potting Mix. (the HC wouldn't grow in the black diamond sand cap, so I just started with MGOPM without a cap and capped it before I filled the tank). 
I think a big part of my BBA problem is direct/ undirect sunlight. And also I didn't sift the soil before I put it in, so I had lots of woodchips just laying around, slowly breaking down. I scooped them out now and then, but its almost impossible.

I have a 10 gal with mgopm planted with DHG that has been doing great without algae for 6 months until couple weeks back, I forgot about the DIY Co2 and suddenly... BBA... Or maybe it was because I added a trio of endlers and now I have 50 bigger to small fry swiming around...

I stopped dosing EI and no more co2 because of the BBA, I will nuke this 10g tank and restart.

Now on my 125, I changed the whole photo period recommended by Complexity in this post. 

I will probably restart my 125 with MGOPM again, but this time take all the chunks out. My wife won't let me buy 200 -300 dollar in substrate.


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## ChadRamsey (Nov 3, 2011)

nalu86 said:


> . My wife won't let me buy 200 -300 dollar in substrate.


Tom, i can deduct from your response above that you have not been married long.

The secret is to NOT tell her that you plan to spend X-amount of dollars on dirt.


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

ChadRamsey said:


> Tom, i can deduct from your response above that you have not been married long.
> 
> The secret is to NOT tell her that you plan to spend X-amount of dollars on dirt.


HAHAHA sadly. i've done this before
just remember they do it right back


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

HD Blazingwolf said:


> HAHAHA sadly. i've done this before
> just remember they do it right back


Yes, we do! And then you guys do it back again. Then we do it back again. Then you guys, then us, then you, then... After enough years, no one can remember who did what so it's all a wash.

The secret to a wonderful marriage is to stop waiting for permission and to stop thinking it's your place to give permission. Just accept each other for who you are. And make damn sure the other person has spent an equal amount of money on their hobbies so they have no ground to stand on if they try to fuss about the money you spend on your hobbies! :hihi:


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## ChadRamsey (Nov 3, 2011)

Complexity said:


> Yes, we do! And then you guys do it back again. Then we do it back again. Then you guys, then us, then you, then... After enough years, no one can remember who did what :hihi:


 
And you ladies end up with a mountian of shoes

On a serious note, GREAT point Complexity! What a great view on marriage


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## Complexity (Jan 30, 2008)

ChadRamsey said:


> And you ladies end up with a mountian of shoes


Speak for yourself! My closet is full of aquarium supplies! :hihi:


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

Complexity said:


> Speak for yourself! My closet is full of aquarium supplies! :hihi:


My wifes is full of shoes.. i had to build her a closet!


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