# Jake's Mr. Aqua 12gal Long/36" Shrimp Tank (pic heavy)



## Big O

I say no background.
Good luck. Keep us posted.


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## somewhatshocked

Am leaning against a background. Just don't want gear to stick out like a sore thumb.


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## vincenz

For the background, you can go to an art supply store and get a sheet of black or navy blue card stock.


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## Geniusdudekiran

Nice Jake -- Can't wait to see it all set up. Where'd you get the PFRs? Those look amazing. Quality stock buddy!


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## somewhatshocked

vincenz: Already have tons of black vinyl. Just not sure I want a background yet.

Kiran: Thanks. The one in the photo is from Rachel/msjinkzd. Ordered some from Liam this weekend and have a bunch more at my office I'll maybe bring home.


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## Geniusdudekiran

Nice! They have a seemingly inch-thick shiny tint to them. Sick!


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## orchidman

nice! Where did you get the tank> and how much was it? same goes for the light. i really love low tanks!!

cant wait to see what you do with it!


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## somewhatshocked

Tank: Marine Depot. $71.99 + $8 handling. 

Fixture: I *think* I got it from Pet Mountain but it's been a minute. Was around a hundred bucks. Available from Ken's, Pet Mountain, Foster & Smith, Big Al's, all over. I like to buy from forum sponsors when I can, though.

Just don't ask me how much I've already sunk into the whole setup because I don't want to think about _that_ number. Head - desk.

It's about two inches taller than I wanted it to be but I won't complain. Great tank for cheap. Provides plenty of room for substrate and lots of surface area for shrimp. 

Can't wait to see what I do with it, either. Kind of overwhelmed thinking about plant options, honestly. Normally know exactly what I'm going to do with a tank before I get it but have been debating this setup for literally months. Definitely over-thinking it. Just don't want it to be janky and hope it lives up to all the other tanks I've created.


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## orchidman

wow, thats a good price! roud:

if i cant decide on something, or between two somethings, i can conclude that if they arent spectacular enough for me to decide on it, im not going to love it in the tank either.... sketching helps something too. or idea sounds cool though!

do you have anything else to work with? or just the rocks? you could do one with steep slopes and the rocks kind of built into the slopes.


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## somewhatshocked

Definitely gonna do a few slopes with rock. Will just need to spend umpteen hours toying around with arrangements to get it right. Took several days to settle on the Ebi rock arrangement and am fairly happy with it. 

Just have rock to work with. Toyed with some wood but can't find anything thin enough, long enough and cheap enough to justify it.


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## orchidman

sounds good!! i love scapes with major slopage and rocks "growing" out of the slope. similar to this http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&h...tbnw=179&start=28&ndsp=36&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:28 and this http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&h...&tbnw=175&start=0&ndsp=28&ved=1t:429,r:15,s:0


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## Gnomecatcher

Ohhh this looks like fun. I love long tanks.


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## manualfocus

Awesome! I'm excited to see what you've got coming, Jake.


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## somewhatshocked

Haha - me too, sir, meeee toooo.

If only I knew/had a clue what it is going to look like.

My plans may have completely changed now that Rachel has imported black Neos. 



manualfocus said:


> Awesome! I'm excited to see what you've got coming, Jake.


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## 1995db7

tank is looking great jake can't wait for my tank to come in and get started,i wanted to ask you if you think the light you have now would be strong enough to keep a carpet of hc,i really like how sleek it looks on the tank


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## somewhatshocked

It's 100% perfect for HC on a tank this height. But you will certainly need to dose EI and run pressurized CO2 with it. Absolutely love the fixture.

I'm raising it because I don't want to go the high-tech route.


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## endgin28

Cool, really like the format. (obviously) If I might suggest a layout type, I would look at one rock set to the 1/4 point right, a larger set to the 2/3 point left. With the spread on this tank, a negative space near the middle might be sweet. I just subtracted a little hardscape on mine and the negative space does wonders for the look. 

I didn't see the filtration set up in the initial posts (maybe I overlooked them), but I like a fairly powerful system with this tank, as dead spots can be very likely given the dimensions. It is a long run from one side to the other, for as little volume as the tank has.


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## somewhatshocked

Thanks for your thoughts (seriously) on the negative space. That's kind of what I'm shooting for so I have a lot of ground for shrimp observation. Really excited to have a tank that won't be overly planted.

Filtration: Eheim Ecco 2232/Easy 35. Making a 30"-32" spray bar to run across the back of the tank. Made one for a 20L that was about 28" long and it worked perfectly with the filter. Also crafted an intake from rigid tubing that's capped with a stainless steel shrimp strainer (or a sponge, if I get tired of the steel).

Gonna run a powerhead - Hydor Koralia Nano 240 to assist with any dead flow spots. 

Likely sending you a PM because some 'U' tubes that I could use to connect hose with pipes would be awesome.


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## endgin28

Let me know. Bending them is pretty easy, getting them right is hard. Actually retracted the offer of them build thinking you wouldn't need it after looking at you sig. LOL


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## endgin28

For what its worth, you can easily clean up the tank by doing the ADA thing (same side input-output) and not have a giant spraybar running the length. It is a bit distracting to look at. A 2234, with a koralia opposite, should easily give you solid circ, probably don't need the spraybar. 

On a side note, one of the funniest (but accidentally cruel) things I ever did was put a koralia in my cube on a timer opposite the lights. I wasn't thinking. My RCS would dive into the nano when it was off to get at the goodies inside. The timer would come on and the rummies would have RCS for a night time snack. OOPS. Live feeding definitely brought out some color in the rummies.


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## somewhatshocked

Already have the filter so will likely be sticking with it. One of the reasons I landed on rigid tubing is that it essentially disappears when in water. 

Ideally would love to do the ADA/lily thing with this tank but even the most expensive, most fancy set of pipes don't provide the right amount of flow on this tank. Tried every set I've got and no dice - even with higher powered filters. 

So ended up deciding on this filter - which should be sufficient for filtration purposes of just shrimp - and a powerhead for flow. Have a tiny little Rio pump I could use if I need more flow than the Koralia will provide. (Actually use one of them with rigid tubing as a spray bar in another tank for flow)


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## endgin28

double post oops


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## endgin28

The filter would be fine with shrimp. Let me know what you would like to do re: pipes. If you have the spraybar still on radar, I could build that instead. If you look at the old pic (first page) on the black gate I ran a side mounted spraybar at first. I think I still have that one somewhere if you want it. I didn't get the flow I was craving, but ended up with a massive filter driving it instead. (man the 404 was noisy, but it moved some water in that arrangement)


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## somewhatshocked

Have ten tiny Horned Nerites from mgamer that are moving into several of my tanks:










Some new Baubalti/Green shrimp:










New Taiwan Fire Reds:










Still not set on the greens. They may end up in a smaller tank on their own somewhere. Especially if I find some fancy dark shrimp of some sort that I can keep without RO water.


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## xenxes

Lol lol lol, another one! 

I love the dimensions on that tank! Wish I had room to put one.

Think a rock scape would be easier than driftwood for something so shallow and long.


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## ADA

AWESOME!!! I can't wait to see this evolve. Subscribed!


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## smracer31

I would try to avoid a spray bar the length of the tank, I had this on my 12 gallon long and i eventually ended up with a clear acrylic tube that looked like this








I settled with the cal aqua 13mm nano lily pipes, expensive but well worth it!

I have a white foam board as a background on mine with led's that light up the white board at night.. sets the mood for the shrimp lol


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## somewhatshocked

Thanks for sharing the photos. That tank is great.

Had thought about this being a potential problem but I've been using them in 20Ls for about a year and with a quick cleaning every 3-4 months, I haven't had much of an issue. Though, honestly, I tend to clean tubing that's visible every week if it's needed.



smracer31 said:


> I would try to avoid a spray bar the length of the tank, I had this on my 12 gallon long and i eventually ended up with a clear acrylic tube that looked like this


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## orchidman

why didnt you use the lily pipes that wouldnt work in the ebi?


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## somewhatshocked

No where near enough flow - even with a 2217. Tried a bunch of configurations to see what worked best. Also tried several other sets of lily pipes that I have on other tanks.

The clear hose and tubing that I've got will end up looking fairly decent, I think.



orchidman said:


> why did you use the lily pipes that wouldnt work in the ebi?


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## orchidman

somewhatshocked said:


> No where near enough flow - even with a 2217. Tried a bunch of configurations to see what worked best. Also tried several other sets of lily pipes that I have on other tanks.
> 
> The clear hose and tubing that I've got will end up looking fairly decent, I think.


just edited my post.. it said _did_ shouldve said _didn't_. but you answ3ered the question i meant to ask anyways.... and ahh i see. makes sense! did you do anything with scaping yet?


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## somewhatshocked

Finally Dremeled out the back of the shelving unit and placed the stands:










You like that blur? Someone had a bit too much espresso.










As you can see, it's going to hold up nicely. Just need to cut the chain to size and we'll be good to go. That's as high as the arms extend but I'm sure I'll be fine on flexibility.

There's non-slip grippy stuff beneath each stand and each of those storage baskets is filled with heavy crap like fertilizer and cans of paint.

Also put some grippy shelf liner beneath the tank.

Received my final bag of Azoo Plant Grower Bed and a bit of Marsilea minuta today so hope to get a rough scape going tonight. Anubias, C. parva, Marsilea minuta, bit of fissidens or other moss behind the rocks. May hold out to see if Gordon gets Bacopa australis in this weekend before settling on a scape.

If anyone has thoughts on plants, feel free to chime in. Not settled on these and am open.

Thanks for reading,

Jake


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## orchidman

looks great! im sure the tank full of water will help the stand stay weighted down too! roud:

are you going for a high tech? iwagumi-ish or what?


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## somewhatshocked

Thanks!

Stand is plenty heavy - just trying to weight the actual metal lighting stands down, as they're seated atop shelves. Have baskets on top of the stand platforms holding them down.

Going as low-tech as possible since this is a shrimp-only tank with the addition of some Otos. Lots of open space for shrimp observation. Not gonna do much with carpeting plants since Otos tend to be sneaky little buggers that stir up substrates on occasion. You should see how they're behaving in their current holding tank that's got a sand bottom.


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## orchidman

ah i got ya!

As for plants/scape, hmmm. you could do something really cool with the rocks built in and protruding from steeps slopes. and you could do alot of anubias nana petite in the crevices.


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## swoof

What kind of padding are you using under your tank? Is it the shelf liner stuff with all the holes in it, or something thicker? Love the setup so far


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## somewhatshocked

It's similar to the stuff with holes in it but a bit thicker. Got it at Home Depot in the same section (same brand). Con-Tact manufactures it. Their version of stuff with holes in it is called Grip Liner. The stuff I used is called Grip Premium. It's a solid sheet of foamy rubber grippy stuff.


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## swoof

somewhatshocked said:


> It's similar to the stuff with holes in it but a bit thicker. Got it at Home Depot in the same section (same brand). Con-Tact manufactures it. Their version of stuff with holes in it is called Grip Liner. The stuff I used is called Grip Premium. It's a solid sheet of foamy rubber grippy stuff.


Thanks, i'm looking for something to use under my 12L so i can start working on it


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## dasob85

i bought a cheap yoga mat from target for $10. it was enough to cut out 2 strips for the 12gal tank. still debating if i want to use just one or both


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## somewhatshocked

One will be plenty for sure.

The stuff I have is thin and I'm just using one strip of it ($5/roll).


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## ADA

Wow, that is really really nice. I LOVE the stand. Did you build or buy that?


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## somewhatshocked

$79 at Target. Thank goodness I made a late night run for Coke Zero (don't judge - it's my only poison outside of fine Kentucky bourbon) that evening.

The plan was to build one with similar dimensions until I realized I could really use six compartments to stash away all the tank stuff I've got. 

Still have a bunch of pine, birch and birch veener to use up so I'll probably build something to house three small shrimp cubes.



ADA said:


> Wow, that is really really nice. I LOVE the stand. Did you build or buy that?


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## ADA

Very nice 

Can't wait to see how this tank goes.



somewhatshocked said:


> $79 at Target. Thank goodness I made a late night run for Coke Zero (don't judge - it's my only poison outside of fine Kentucky bourbon) that evening.
> 
> The plan was to build one with similar dimensions until I realized I could really use six compartments to stash away all the tank stuff I've got.
> 
> Still have a bunch of pine, birch and birch veener to use up so I'll probably build something to house three small shrimp cubes.


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## Geniusdudekiran

somewhatshocked said:


> $79 at Target. Thank goodness I made a late night run for Coke Zero (don't judge - it's my only poison outside of fine Kentucky bourbon) that evening.


lol. Is it on their website? I might just get this and get the 60-F instead of the 45-F.


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## somewhatshocked

Don't think it would be sturdy enough for the 60-F. The weight for my tank is distributed across nearly the entire length of the shelf. The 60-F would put all 8ish gallons of water right in the center of the shelf. It'd also likely be a bit too deep (front to back) for the unit in the sense that it would wobble.

Here's a link to it.

There are tons of options for a 24" x 12" tank, though.


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## Geniusdudekiran

Ok. Well surely it could fit the 45-F then... Can't beat the price. Can't wait to see this tank develop!


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## dasob85

having the second piece seems wasteful so I may just stick both under for the heck of it. its not like i'm gonna get a second 12gal long tank lol.

looking forward to seeing how you set it up! need some inspiration for when i have to set mine up


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## somewhatshocked

Just make sure it's not so much padding that it causes instability and it should be fine.

As far as not setting up another tank? I already want dozens of these and I haven't even flooded it!



dasob85 said:


> having the second piece seems wasteful so I may just stick both under for the heck of it. its not like i'm gonna get a second 12gal long tank lol.
> 
> looking forward to seeing how you set it up! need some inspiration for when i have to set mine up


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## endgin28

This tank style is way too fun to work on. Great format. I did some emergent timber in my first incarnation, it definitely could have been better executed. Subscribed


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## somewhatshocked

Finally found a source for Bacopa australis since I can't get an answer out of the seller here on TPT. Should be here in a week to ten days.

So I think I'm going to scape this thing today, add Anubias, C. parva, Marsilea minuta and cover it with plastic wrap until I can get Bacopa added. Will give things time to settle in before flooding. Also plan to add bits of moss upon flooding.

Hope I love this tank as much in a few months as I do right now.

Will have photos later tonight or tomorrow.


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## vvDO

somewhatshocked said:


> Finally found a source for Bacopa australis since I can't get an answer out of the seller here on TPT. Should be here in a week to ten days.
> 
> So I think I'm going to scape this thing today, add Anubias, C. parva, Marsilea minuta and cover it with plastic wrap until I can get Bacopa added. Will give things time to settle in before flooding. Also plan to add bits of moss upon flooding.
> 
> Hope I love this tank as much in a few months as I do right now.
> 
> Will have photos later tonight or tomorrow.


Subscribed, I'm sure it'll look great.


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## somewhatshocked

So… maybe I ordered too much Azoo Plant Grower Bed.

One bag is plenty, it seems:










Will have a couple bags left over. Guess I'll need to use it in one of my grow out tanks. Have an empty 20L that's just itching to be set up as another emersed rig. MORE PLANTS!

Wishing I'd been able to get my hands on Aquasoil Amazonia Powder Type. This will look okay for what I'm going for, I suppose. 

As you can see, I'm finally getting around to scaping. Have things planned out on paper. Anubias nana will definitely be in between rocks, C. parva in the front corners and in front of rocks, Marsilea minuta in the center of the tank, Bacopa australis behind the rocks and maybe in the rear center of the tank. Mosses here and there. 

Have decided that I don't want to wait for a month for this thing to be perfect for shrimp. So I'm going to move a ton of rock, plants and such over from tanks that are several years old to help supply the tank with all the nom noms shrimp tend to love. Maybe even moving some substrate. So there should be a suitable amount of surface area prepped for grazing within a week or two.

Still torn on whether or not I want a background. While black vinyl looks great on my smaller tanks and in tanks that are low to the ground… I'm concerned that a background on this tank will look a bit janky. The tank is situated in a division between a living area and my kitchen and will be a major focal point in an area that's about 800sq ft in size. Have toyed with a background and it seems like three feet of black is really stark. Breaks up the flow of the living space more than I want it to. 

So here's hoping that if I go without a background, it'll seem more open and natural. Hoping it won't look strange once plants grow in. Thinking it won't be too big of a deal, as I won't have much gear to hide. The spray bar will be clear, intake will be clear/will have a stainless steel shrimp strainer on it, whatever pump (I think Koralia Nano - but I have a few to pick from) I decide on will be small and black.

Now just a waiting game for the delivery of plants.


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## swoof

You could go for one of the "mist" type window covers they sell at Home Depot and other places.


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## madness

With a rimless tank and a small amount of equipment it should look OK without a background, I think.


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## somewhatshocked

Here's hoping. Worst case scenario, really, I can just get some cheap-o film of some sort and attach it with mineral oil. But there's not really anything behind the tank but a wall. Even the tubing will come in via the ends. So I'm feeling more comfy about it as the hours pass.


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## somewhatshocked

OMG. This whole scape thing is melting my brain. Didn't realize until about half way through that the tank needed to be pleasing and needed to look proportional from THREE SIDES. Head - desk.

Note: I have the light jacked up so I can get my arms into the tank with ease at the moment.

Here it is:





































While the four rocks on the right look somewhat… heavy? or something… It was necessary to add that long thing that's somewhat in the middle of the tank to provide balance. Now, when entering the room, it looks great from the left. When facing it head-on, it looks pretty decent. When viewing from the right, it looks absolutely terrific. 

Here's my tentative planting plan:










Mosses will go in there 

I think I'm okay with the scape.


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## dasob85

i'm not familiar with some of the plants, googled to see the pictures but can't really see it in my head. however, the rocks are awesome!

i'm dreading planning out my scape too lol. luckily, my driftwood didn't arrive yet so I can procrastinate some more. if i send you pictures of mine, can you scape it for me?


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## orchidman

looks great! i would add some steeper sloping though.

and i think you might want to think about going with all petite anubias


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## somewhatshocked

Just wanted to get the rock placed but may do some steeper sloping. This sort of stuff always settles over the course of a year, so I'd have to stack things up with lava rock beneath it all. 

With the bushiness of B. australis, it's going to seem as if there's already some steep sloping. So likely won't add too much more.


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## orchidman

Sounds like a plan!


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## somewhatshocked

Just broke up a bunch of black lava rock for slope creation:










(That's on a bucket lid, not a plate, in case in anyone is wondering)

So we know what I have to look forward to tomorrow.


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## orchidman

Can't wait to see it


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## somewhatshocked

Didn't end up using lava rock to create height. Decided to just add a bit more Azoo in the corners and spread it down toward the center of the tank. 




























Originally thought I wanted a more mountainous look in the corners but think the scale of the tank would be off if I had rock any higher than current, unfortunately. I think Bacopa root growth will help maintain some of the slope.

Since this is 100% for shrimp (maybe some Nerites and Ramshorns), I want background plants to grow bushy and taller than the rock so there's plenty of playground space. Also want to be able to keep the water level a centimeter or so from the rim to prevent shrimp from hopping the fence.

Have given nana vs. nana 'petite' quite a bit of thought. The smaller will look much nicer in this tank. Only have four or five of them. But have probably 15 standard nana… so if anybody wants to trade. 

Other plants should arrive tomorrow so I hope to give plants a couple days to take root before flooding by the end of the weekend.

The excitement of this tank makes the downer of having someone steal RAOK fish from me a bit easier to swallow.


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## orchidman

looks great!

and that stinks about the endlers, some people are crazy!


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## shrimpnmoss

Set him up next time. Find a Best Buy or Amazon box and leave a nice pile of dog doo doo in the box at your door on the same day your ROAK was stolen.:icon_evil


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## gnod

do you find that this tank is... spacious enough? 
i may try to consolidate all my tanks into one. haha
i know it's only a 12G but given that it's so long, i'm wondering if it's not a bad idea. 
ill be having crs, cpo, cpd, aru2 i'm looking to consolidate.


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## somewhatshocked

shrimp: Endlers were returned after reviewing security footage and filing a police report. From here on out, I'm using RFID tags that I use for work-related shipments. Not risking it again. (You'd think living in an upscale condo would... keep people from thieving your crap)

gnod: It's probably going to be more room than I could ever imagine for shrimp. The tank is much larger than you're likely imagining from photos and such.


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## shrimpnmoss

comment moved to thief thread...


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## gnod

ok! time for consolidation!


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## dasob85

get one, so eventually they will have to open a special 12 gal long section of the forum :flick:


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## Beer

Looking forward to seeing how this turns out. I just ordered one of those tanks about an hour ago.


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## somewhatshocked

Woah, too exhausted to deal with flooding the tank and setting up the filter after half a day of planting. Maybe I should wait to use the water from my new RO/DI filter that shipped today? My water at home is liquid rock and I want to keep some Black Tigers with my PFRs… so think it's probably best to wait on it.

Here's a rough photo:










Left front: baby C. parva. Right front: big C. parva

Between rocks: mixture of Anubias nana and nana 'petite'

Center & right center: Marsilea minuta

Rear: Bacopa australis, which is looking pretty wilty. Here's hoping it handles this well and perks up by tomorrow. Can't wait for it to get bushy.

This is more heavily planted than I anticipated but I am super-excited about it.


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## Beer

You aren't going to grow it emersed for a while?
I'd figure growing the Marsilea Minuta for a bit would allow the root system to establish a bit and help prevent it from floating when you flood it. Also the emersed growth should allow it to grow and fill in a bit quicker.


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## somewhatshocked

I do every tank I start emersed for a while. This may be the first I don't. Though, it'll have enough time to grow in until at least the weekend when the RO/DI arrives. Or maybe early next week if I'm lazy.


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## Beer

Every time I look at a picture of one of these tanks I love it more. At three feet long, there is just so much you can do with these.
You have more options as far as plants are concerned with the tall tanks, but sticking with smaller fauna and flora, you can do some really cool scapes with these tanks. I definitely dig the floor space to volume ratio that these provide. I'm really considering something with proportions like this for saltwater once I get settled down somewhere


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## somewhatshocked

Would make an amazing marine tank. You could display some amazing corals in a large spread.


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## Beer

Definitely.
Lighting would be a lot more manageable with the shallower depth too. Altho I don't think the intense lighting that most people go with is entirely necessary either. Corals don't get as much of their energy needs from their symbiotic algae as people think they do. Mostly just enough to cover their metabolic needs. They really need to be fed more than people assume.
With that floor space and a similar sized refugium, you could definitely support some dragonetts. They require supplemental feeding, but with that much space for copepods to reproduce, they could do very well. Very few reef tanks can supply enough food for for them. The only issue would be having a spawning pair with a shallow depth like that. They swim rapidly towards the surface during spawning and would easily be lost in such a shallow tank without a cover.

Man, I have a severe case of MTS and I don't even have a tank set up yet.


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## Gnomecatcher

I think it would be so much fun to get one of these tanks and make it a stream tank for tetras or White Cloud Mountain minnows!


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## xenxes

I'd like to keep a huge school of pygmaeus cories in one 

Looking good!


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## orchidman

Gnomecatcher said:


> I think it would be so much fun to get one of these tanks and make it a stream tank for tetras or White Cloud Mountain minnows!


i want to do something like this someday! http://www.google.com/imgres?num=10...6&tbnw=170&start=0&ndsp=29&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0 maybe with hillstream loaches instead


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## vvDO

Looking good, can't wait to see it submerged


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## somewhatshocked

Received some E. parkeri today in less than great shape. Here's hoping they perk up soon:



















They're from a reputable seller so I'm sure they'll come around soon. 

Replaced some C. parva with five of them. Put one that had no leaves which weren't broken/started turning brown into a growout tank to see if I can nurse it back to health.

Love the way they look so here's hoping!


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## speedie408

Parkeri sp has much more fragile leaves than other erios. They look fine to me from your pics. Losing a few bottom leaves is perfectly normal being in a shipping box for 3 days. Give em a week or two to adjust to your emersed conditions.


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## somewhatshocked

I've had them come in in MUCH worse conditions and thrive after a few weeks so am definitely not worried about these. 

The last ones I bought - from a former forum seller who shall remain nameless - were disasters. They all lived, though, and are thriving in a tank on my desk at work.

Excited to have these for the new shrimp tank!


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## somewhatshocked

Just looked through my holding/Q tank and have AT LEAST 100 PFR shrimplets. The little buggers couldn't hold off until moving into their new home. Now I have to keep this dang tank going for another couple months. Ha.

Also... discovered three pink Ramshorns. Decently sized, even. And I've only ever had brown ones in the tank. 

Excitement all around today!


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## madness

Are they those PFR from msjinkzd?


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## somewhatshocked

Her, Liam, some of my own. 

Had to shut down one of my smaller tanks and decided to mix a few in with these guys and gals to see what would happen. And bam, babies.


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## Geniusdudekiran

somewhatshocked said:


> They all lived, though, and are thriving in a tank on my desk at work.


Another tank? lol

I want to see this one! CO2 or no?


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## somewhatshocked

Yep, CO2. Have 2,200ish gallons of display water in my office and just under 2,000 gallons sumped. Lots of tanks. 

Will try to get photos of some of the tanks sometime soon.



Geniusdudekiran said:


> Another tank? lol
> 
> I want to see this one! CO2 or no?


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## dasob85

looking good! could i trouble you for a top down shot of the entire tank?


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## somewhatshocked

Those are posted earlier in the thread.


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## somewhatshocked

Between this and my new-ish Ebi, I'm ignoring everything else! 

Now I know that it was silly for me not to get this tank a long, long time ago. So glad I bit the bullet. Even dry it makes me happy. Everyone who comes into the condo is surprised by the shape and scale of the tank.

Can't wait to fill it and stock it with PFRs and Black Tigers. And maybe Otos if I think they can refrain from messing stuff up (contrary to popular belief, they can mess a planted tank up in a heartbeat).


----------



## somewhatshocked

The time has come for me to flood this sucker. But flooding it will depend upon which type of shrimp I want to house.

I know I'm going to have PFRs. Up for debate: will I also house Crystal Black Shrimp or Black Tigers?

I use RO water so I'd have to raise the KH for Black Tigers. I have various Crystals/Bees at my office so I'm familiar with their parameters. Am used to keeping KH at negligible levels. Keep Neos at home so I'm used to never worrying about anything with them.

How, in more than a decade of shrimp keeping, have I not ever had to raise KH? Guess the old baking soda and Jake are about to become good friends if I decide on Black Tigers.

Just ran out of Kent R/O Right and started using Mosura Mineral Plus Ultra and love love love it. So no worries about getting TDS perfect.

Thoughts on jacking around with KH? I know it's not tough to raise it a few degrees. 

Wait - my pH is at about 6.4-6.5 before adding it to the tank. Maybe I should just stick with CBS? Dangit. I hate making decisions when it comes to fun stuff like this. So… everyone give me a whole bunch of conflicting opinions, quick! Ha.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Okay, 15 minutes later... and I realize that I do not want to jack around with pH. KH I'm comfy with. pH? Not so much. So maybe CBS/some other fancy Crystal it is - since I won't have to mess with KH, either. 

What was that, again, about me not being able to make decisions? (Okay, so I still want Black Tigers. Ugh. Just have to convince myself otherwise.)


----------



## sockfish

Oh man!

Another great 12 gal long setup--looking great!

I have to say you should take the trouble to put the shrimp you *really* want into this tank, I hate _settling_ after going to the trouble to set up such a nice tank.

I have the GLA 91-B sitting on my console table and still waiting for the money to pimp it out. So I'm getting all my satisfaction by watching the threads that are working on it. I'm not the first to say there should be a 12 Gal Long sort of thread...

My other problem is, this tank makes me think in so many different directions, I haven't decided on a plan yet anyway.

But, it's true, it really does make me happy just looking at it as it sits there empty!

sox


----------



## vvDO

fill fill fill!!!!


----------



## somewhatshocked

The tornado devastation of my hometown (West Liberty, Kentucky - the one you've likely seen on the national news programs and non-stop on the Weather Channel - along with dozens of interviews of me) set me back a bit. 

Have driven 1,200 miles making trips back and forth in just a couple days/assisting with emergency relief. Total nightmare. Entire town wiped off the face of the earth.

But finally get to rest and plan to fill this sucker tomorrow!

Have an ammonia monitor connected to a dosing mechanism that will auto-dose the tank with ammonia to get it up to 2-3ppm each time it hits 0ppm. Randomly mentioned my desire to get the tank going to a neighbor along with my disappointment of having to wait until I can be home every day to drop in ammo. Boom, he had it ready to go today. Now I can (hopefully?) get a cycle going while disaster relief efforts are still under way. He made an already nerdy hobby that much more insane and I love it.

Will try to take photos as I slowly flood the tank and mess around with it in the morning.


----------



## Gnomecatcher

Who is "he"? And what the heck is an ammonia monitor? I didn't know they made those.

Keeping Kentucky in our thoughts over here in Cali. Good luck!


----------



## somewhatshocked

Whoops - left out a couple words. Randomly mentioned it to my neighbor, who is a chemist.

That's what happens when you're without sleep for 56 hours. Typically solid grammar and ability to communicate goes out the window!


----------



## vvDO

somewhatshocked said:


> The tornado devastation of my hometown (West Liberty, Kentucky - the one you've likely seen on the national news programs and non-stop on the Weather Channel - along with dozens of interviews of me) set me back a bit.


Glad to see you're ok, the media images are heartbreaking.


----------



## sockfish

My heart goes out to Kentucky. My Mom grew up in Maysville and my Aunt is still living there. She's OK, but ya'll were hit hard. Kudos to you for being part of the relief team!

Your tank will be worth the wait, I'm sure!

sox


----------



## somewhatshocked

It's a literal disaster. 

Here's a video as we first flew in Saturday morning. 

Video a family friend took that shows an horrific close-up at the 2:22 mark. Don't watch it if you're prone to having your heart skip beats.

What you see on The Weather Channel doesn't even begin to tell the true story. 4,600 structures gone. Schools gone, hospital gone, no pharmacies, banks, grocery stores, city hall gone, court house gone, funeral homes gone, telephone service is weeks away, electricity won't be back for probably two weeks, no water, sewage. In a county of 12,000ish, that's… straight out of a horror film.

Once I have less of a sleep deficit, I'll link to some of my coverage, photos and videos that will blow your mind. 

Never felt so fortunate not to live in my hometown as I do right now, as awful as that sounds.

Had to make an unexpected flight back to the mountains today. Here's hoping I get to finally fill the tank tomorrow.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Flooded it! Not a fan of the green Eheim tubing but it'll do for now.

Full tank shot:










Have the light fixture about 15 inches from the substrate in the front, 12 inches from the highest points in the back (where less light hits).

Turns out the 2232 and my DIY spray bar are creating plenty of flow:



















Guess I won't need to use a powerhead after all. Guess I'll know more once the filter has been running for a week or two. Already have a few powerheads just in case.

Here's the ugly orange cap I found at U.S. Plastics to close off the end of the Lee's Rigid Tubing I used:










Doesn't look too distracting but I may find another solution down the road.

Using the Eheim intake with a sponge at the moment but may switch to a spare stainless steel pre-filter I got from Liam once I create a new intake pipe:










E. parkeri is starting to look better:










Marsilea minuta springing to life:










Temperature is holding steady at about 70F so I probably won't need to use the in-line ETH heater I bought until next winter. Not even going to take it out of the box.

Ordered two silent fans to build a couple DIY cooling devices that will arrive next week. Don't anticipate needing them, as I always keep it about 65-70 in my condo year round. Would rather be safe than sorry. 

Bacopa australis seems to be bushing up quite nicely so I'm beginning to believe a background won't be necessary. 

KH is 0-1, GH 5-6, TDS is at about 150 but I'm positive that will change as the tank matures and I get things into a better balance. Plus this is just day 1.

Really happy with the tank so far. So happy, in fact, that I've decided that I'd be okay with it just filled with moss if there's ever a plant disaster.

Can't wait to see how this plays out.

Here's hoping someone has some nice SS CBS to house with my PFRs when I'm ready to stock this thing.

Will my Otos be moving to this tank? Amano shrimp? Maybe. Maybe not. Haven't yet decided.

Thanks for reading!

Jake


----------



## Ach1Ll3sH33L

Tanks looking good!
Some thoughts about the flow in the tank. With a long spray bar such as yours, your flow is going to progressively decrease as you move down the pipe. What ive found with a setup like this, it creates somewhat of a horizontal vortex effect, picks up debris from the bottom, and circulates it to the top, however the vortex seems to shift the debris toward the lower flow side of the tank. So you may find it works better to have the filter intake on the opposite side. The tank is small enough though that you may find this doesn't happen, but something to consider.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Flow is actually so strong right now that I have it turned down at about 50%. Extremely strong the full duration of the pipe.

Took me 3 or 4 tries to find the right size drill bit to produce the correct amount of flow and this size is working out really well. 

It's actually going to need to slow down a bit before I add shrimp or I'm going to have to turn the knobs down even more. (Never thought I'd be saying that)


----------



## vvDO

Sweet, is that a flower coming from the right most erio?


----------



## somewhatshocked

Yep! I wasn't kidding when I said they were the best E. parkeri I've ever received. 

I have one in my emersed tank (the one that arrived in the worst shape) that's already flowered.

Can't wait to watch them grow.


----------



## manualfocus

somewhatshocked said:


> Here's hoping someone has some nice SS CBS to house with my PFRs when I'm ready to stock this thing.


Looks great, Jake! Glad to see you're jumping onto the CBS train!


----------



## somewhatshocked

Thanks!

I need to toy with my lighting today so the photos don't look so janky and washed out.


----------



## manikmunky

Looks awesome, really love these 12g long tanks. Having no luck finding someone who sells them in the UK so far -.- . You could try heating the end of the spray bar then clamping it closed rather than using the cap? Although I didn't notice it until you pointed it out...


----------



## somewhatshocked

Thanks.

There's bound to be a Mr. Aqua retailer in the UK. 

You can also buy a similar tank from ADA.



manikmunky said:


> Looks awesome, really love these 12g long tanks. Having no luck finding someone who sells them in the UK so far -.- . You could try heating the end of the spray bar then clamping it closed rather than using the cap? Although I didn't notice it until you pointed it out...


----------



## D3monic

Looks great!


----------



## manikmunky

somewhatshocked said:


> Thanks.
> 
> There's bound to be a Mr. Aqua retailer in the UK.
> 
> You can also buy a similar tank from ADA.


ADA make similar tanks, but none this size, the closest is the 90F which is 90x30x20 or 36/12/8 (w/d/h) at 14gallons, not quite the same proportions, and I really want the 12g long's depth to sit on a shelf. I actually want one for work too...

As for a UK retailer, I've googled, checked the Mr Aqua website which only lists US retailers. I'm tempted to get one made, there are a couple of local companies that make rimless tanks, might be able to get one made with an optiwhite front pane.

For some reason the ADA style of tank hasn't taken off in shops here, I'm guessing it's less cost effective than the standard tanks. The Green Machine stocks ADA, but Wales is a long drive (although tempting  )


----------



## somewhatshocked

Depending upon price, it may be more cost effective to import one from the States or Taiwan.


----------



## manikmunky

somewhatshocked said:


> Depending upon price, it may be more cost effective to import one from the States or Taiwan.


I'm considering it, especially now that a thread has been started showing them all off in one place... Most US companies won't ship tanks internationally though, or at least not as standard. The company I've spoken to about standard glass tanks quoted me £40 for a 30x18x14. I'll look into it more over the weekend. 

Sub'd to the thread too, keep the updates coming 

Cheers


----------



## somewhatshocked

40 pounds is about what we pay in the US. That's a great price.


----------



## sockfish

manikmunky said:


> I'm considering it, especially now that a thread has been started showing them all off in one place... Most US companies won't ship tanks internationally though, or at least not as standard. The company I've spoken to about standard glass tanks quoted me £40 for a 30x18x14. I'll look into it more over the weekend.
> 
> Sub'd to the thread too, keep the updates coming
> 
> Cheers


There a 12 gal long thread now? Cool! Uh, where is it?

Also--I bought my tank from GLA (Green Leaf Aquariums). A little more expensive but you might ask them if they'd ship to you.

sox


----------



## manikmunky

sockfish said:


> There a 12 gal long thread now? Cool! Uh, where is it?
> 
> Also--I bought my tank from GLA (Green Leaf Aquariums). A little more expensive but you might ask them if they'd ship to you.
> 
> sox


Neoshrimp started it up a couple of days ago, LINK.

Edit: Thanks for the GLA tip, they do indeed ship to the UK, the 91-B (same dimensions as the 12g Long) is currently out of stock. I'll bookmark them and check back later.


----------



## dasob85

awesome tank!

btw manikmunky: i ordered mine from gla last month when they were listed as out of stock too. I emailed them and orlando said they actually still had some. You should email him and give it a shot!


----------



## somewhatshocked

Keep in mind that shipping a tank that size (the box will be huge) to the UK will be rather spendy. If you can get one made there for 40 pounds, I say do it.


----------



## sockfish

manikmunky, they were out of stock when I tried to order online as well, but when I called, they had one for me just like dasob85 had happen. Do give them a call, they're very helpful and I'm sure they can get one for you!

Thanks for the link!

sox


----------



## somewhatshocked

Bacopa australis is nearly growing out of the water:










Really starting to enjoy it as it gets bushy. Though, I fear my interest in it will only last a few months. At that point, I may just do a full moss background.

B. australis is such an under-appreciated plant. Part of me wants another big tank so I can have huge mounds of it.

To the folks asking me about flow with the spray bar: perfect flow throughout the entire tank. Pressure is about the same at the far end as it is at the beginning of the tube.


----------



## dasob85

wow, the australis looks really nice. i'm considering it now


----------



## somewhatshocked

Got a couple of these silent fans, two mounting kids with brackets and a dual speed controller from Cooler Guys:










Also have a bunch of 0.75" x 0.75" hardwood slats (36" long) and some rubbery/non-slip "spray paint" that matches the color of my stand. 

Gonna to need to fashion some sort of DIY cooling system. I'm thinking a fan at each end? Don't want to just sit these on top of the tank (on slats that span front to back) but I'm guessing I could easily do that. Either way, it's going to look janky as all get out and I need to come up with an attractive solution.

Recommendations and suggestions are most welcome! I'm pretty handy/artistic, have fancy Dremel kits and a few saws - so throw your tips my way, please.


----------



## vvDO

Are you planning to use the fans to cool the tank or light fixture?


----------



## somewhatshocked

Fixture puts off no heat at all so definitely the tank. 

They'll be used, as mentioned earlier in the journal, if cooling becomes necessary. 

I use these on other tanks all the time and successfully cool things down about 8-10 degrees when needed.


----------



## speedie408

I'm a fan of your food now bro


----------



## somewhatshocked

Thanks! Can't wait to see how they react to it long-term.


----------



## somewhatshocked

8 days post-flood. Nitrites still high like woah.

Wish this thing would hurry up so I could focus on growing the kind of organisms shrimp will need in a few weeks.


----------



## somewhatshocked

I think the nitrites are subsiding! 

Gonna let this run a few more weeks before adding livestock. Really excited! Plants are looking great.


----------



## vvDO

I'm probably going to need to set up fans for my up coming shrimp tank, so I'll be interested in learning how you set up the fans while keeping a clean look. It can get hot in the middle of summer and without AC, I may run into some trouble keeping the water cool.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Figure it's time for a shrimp update from the quarantine tank.

PFRs are dropping babies like crazy. I see new ones every day.

Some adults nomming:










An adult digging through the calcium pile - old shells I toss in, cuttle bone, etc:










I now have ten adult Babaulti "Green" after adding a few more today - here's one that's about to be berried again:










From another viewpoint: 










They've so far dropped three sets of babies that are thriving. Likely won't move them to the 12gal Mr. Aqua. They'll even move in with my Cherries or on to their own tank.

Tank is essentially ready but I'm going to continue adding ammonia for another week or so. Then I'll move a few PFRs in, maybe a couple nerites, definitely some Ramshorns. Then I'll start the hunt for SS/SS+ CBS.


----------



## Couesfanatic

Nice PFR's! Can you give us some details about those fans and stand? I've been looking for something like that. I went to the coolerguys website, but I'm clueless when it comes to that stuff.


----------



## somewhatshocked

You just need to get a size fan that you think will suit your tank. Then you need a power supply. From there, you can make any number of stands or devices to place it over your tank.

For about $40, you can also buy ready-made kits on eBay that just clip on the rim of your tank.

I haven't put the fan rigs together yet just because it hasn't been warm enough. May do that this weekend if I get free time.


----------



## Lludu

this tank is amazing. can we get a couple of shots showing off the dimensions of it?


----------



## somewhatshocked

There are several photos throughout the journal that show the tank's size. Won't be able to snap photos that show specific dimensions until later this week.


----------



## Lludu

Im subscribed, like the pics so far keep em coming


----------



## somewhatshocked

My impatience with Marsilea minuta kicked in and I ordered more. Figure that's a quicker way to fill it in without waiting six months. 

Everything else in the tank is growing gangbusters. Two E. parkeri are flowering. Crypts have stopped melting and new growth spurts are taking place. Bacopa has really bushed up and looks gorgeous from the top:










It's almost ready for a trim.

Have been adding Fissidens and Willow Moss in sneaky places so the tank is more shrimp-friendly.

Pond snails are beginning to pop up so I must be doing something right.

Have finally gotten my TDS perfect with the lace rock. Have been testing things out and if I mineralize to 80PPM TDS, it only shoots up to 110ish and hovers there. Probably gonna shoot for 140-150.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Quick cell phone shot of one of the older Amano shrimp I keep in my quarantine tanks for cleaning up:










Huge, white eyes as it goes to town on a big chunk of Repashy Shrimp Souffle.


----------



## somewhatshocked

C. parva has stopped melting and is exhibiting new growth:










How long can I hold out? Another week? Two? I want to add some PFRs so badly it's not funny.

I'll wait. Want to add more C. parva and Marsilea minuta first.


----------



## manualfocus

somewhatshocked said:


> How long can I hold out? Another week? Two? I want to add some PFRs so badly it's not funny.


What's stopping ya?!


----------



## somewhatshocked

Only been flooded for about 18 days. Need to let it go for a week or two more so it's a bit more of a shrimp haven.


----------



## 1995db7

tank looks amazing jake,on the spray bar if that's a 5/8 tube you can use the cap of a test tube and it fits perfectly on it


----------



## somewhatshocked

Thanks!

I think it will look amazing in 2-3 more months but I'm happy with the beginning stages.

Spray bar is 1/2" rigid tubing. Found the orange caps at U.S. Plastics and they fit perfectly. Thought it was a bit of an eyesore at first but now the Bacopa has grown over it and I haven't noticed it at all.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Just bought 6 Anubias nana 'petite' from a forum member to replace the six Anubias nana on the left side of the tank. 

Nice to see this finally coming together.

I think I should hurry up and sink a bunch of cash into shrimp ASAP so I don't give in to the urge to start another reef tank.


----------



## sunyang730

Hi there,

Just wondering if you have a website of where to get the spray bar tube? and the orange cap? LOL. Should the tube be 1/2"?


----------



## somewhatshocked

I mention in this comment above where to obtain the caps, though you can use anything to fit the tubing you choose.

You can typically buy Lee's Rigid Tubing at your local fish store or at any number of online retailers, many of which are forum sponsors. The tubing can be any size you want it to be. I purchased 1/2" tubing to fit somewhat closely with the filter set I'm using. But you can use larger and adapt it. Just depends on what you're going for, how large you want the output holes to be, how much flow you want in the tank.


----------



## jingleberry

What type of drill bit did you use for your spray bar?


----------



## somewhatshocked

Used a Dremel to create holes roughly the same size as standard Eheim spray bar holes. That was after a couple test runs with different size holes at different angles.

You could use a drill if you're careful. Would just need to be rather small. Best bet is to start smaller than you think you'll need the holes to be and work your way up as necessary.



jingleberry said:


> What type of drill bit did you use for your spray bar?


----------



## alfalfa

I used a Dremel, too. I'd expect Eheim to use metric but all I had on hand was a 3/32" bit and it matched the existing holes perfectly.


----------



## somewhatshocked

I found that it's best to really try spacing the holes out. And, depending upon the filter used, to try various sizes of hole to get flow just right. Because this tank is sooo awkwardly long.


----------



## gtu2004

somewhatshocked said:


> Got a couple of these silent fans, two mounting kids with brackets and a dual speed controller from Cooler Guys:
> .


do you mind linking the mounting kits for the fans? I'm a bit lost as to how to suspend them over the tank. I ordered a cheap PC power supply though.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Not sure of the exact link, as I'm not home. They're easy to find on coolerguys.com.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Replaced the Anubias nana with nana 'petite':










Added 50ish more nodes of Marsilea minuta:










Hope to add a bit more C. parva and then I'm definitely adding shrimp this weekend/sometime next week.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Had a nice little motorcycle accident earlier (I'm fine) so looks like I'll be working from home the next several days. Which means more tank time! Blessing in disguise? When the other half returns from a business trip, well, uh, they aren't going to enjoy finding out about _that_ insurance claim. :icon_surp

This means that tomorrow, stiffness aside, I'll trim the Bacopa up and make it look a bit more thick, add some more mosses in nooks and crannies of the various rocks, maybe add some C. parva from one of my other tanks because I'm tired of waiting on potential buys, do a huge water change to RO and then add some PFRs on Saturday. 

This is a yay moment, right?


----------



## swoof

Well at least you are ok, how fares the 2 wheeler?


----------



## somewhatshocked

Let's just say I'm still in denial about that.

Thank goodness it wasn't my new bike!



swoof said:


> Well at least you are ok, how fares the 2 wheeler?


----------



## Geniusdudekiran

somewhatshocked said:


> Let's just say I'm still in denial about that.
> 
> Thank goodness it wasn't my new bike!


Jake, you didn't strike me as a motorcycle person :hihi:


----------



## somewhatshocked

Heh. Start with this comment. My conspiracy theory is that most shrimpers have bikes.

Really was a tank nerd blessing in disguise. Gonna nerd out all day long. Maybe even cull my Babaulti tanks a bit more.


----------



## manualfocus

somewhatshocked said:


> Had a nice little motorcycle accident earlier (I'm fine)





















somewhatshocked said:


> Thank goodness it wasn't my new bike!


:icon_cool

Was in disbelief and mad when I heard that.. then was relieved reading that it wasn't the 1199! But I'm glad to hear you're OK. What happened?


----------



## somewhatshocked

Please, the tread on those tires will dry rot before I get a chance to risk an accident with it! Ha. Gave up my car as an excuse to get it, even. Compromises, compromises.

What happened: Was waiting to enter our underground garage when a drunk driver (!) plowed into me. I'd say it was partially my fault because I wasn't watching for drunk drivers. Just glad it was the bike and not me. Fell of pretty quickly, thankfully.

Working on tank nerd stuff today made it all better.



manualfocus said:


> Was in disbelief and mad when I heard that.. then was relieved reading that it wasn't the 1199! But I'm glad to hear you're OK. What happened?


----------



## gnod

somewhatshocked said:


> Please, the tread on those tires will dry rot before I get a chance to risk an accident with it! Ha. Gave up my car as an excuse to get it, even. Compromises, compromises.
> 
> What happened: Was waiting to enter our underground garage when a drunk driver (!) plowed into me. I'd say it was partially my fault because I wasn't watching for drunk drivers. Just glad it was the bike and not me. Fell of pretty quickly, thankfully.
> 
> Working on tank nerd stuff today made it all better.


that's seriously nuts! glad you're ok, did the guy get arrested?


----------



## manualfocus

somewhatshocked said:


> Please, the tread on those tires will dry rot before I get a chance to risk an accident with it! Ha. Gave up my car as an excuse to get it, even. Compromises, compromises.
> 
> What happened: Was waiting to enter our underground garage when a drunk driver (!) plowed into me. I'd say it was partially my fault because I wasn't watching for drunk drivers. Just glad it was the bike and not me. Fell of pretty quickly, thankfully.
> 
> Working on tank nerd stuff today made it all better.


I always try to watch this once in awhile to remind myself to give room for a potential rear end situation and an escape route: http://youtu.be/bN48za-o0VQ

I'd give up my car too if it didn't snow here. Gas is getting so expensive, and driving my 20 MPG car is kickin' my ass. I'm still waiting on pictures of that bike!

So, since you spent so much time in the tank, let's see some pics of the tank too!


----------



## somewhatshocked

Yep, the guy got picked up by the po-leece, to say the least. I always give myself tons of stopping room and made sure there was nothing behind me as I waited to enter but ol drunky came out of nowhere, I guess. 

Actually did a lot less to the tank than planned. Decided to only add a single clump of C. parva to the left. Only did a tiny bit of Bacopa australis trimming. Figure it's best not to mess with things too much.

Did a 99% water change with 80TDS RO/DI reconstituted with Mosura Mineral Plus Ultra. Added a bag of Purigen to the filter.

Tank as it stands:

115TDS
5-6 Nitrates
6 pH
0-1 KH
3GH

Fully expect it to hit about 140-150 TDS within two weeks because of stuff in the tank and the "lace" rock I'm using. GH should hit 5. Figure those are nearly perfect params for what I plan to keep. 

Couple cell phone shots because, well, who the heck knows where the DSLR is?



















So gross how the iPhone 4 renders greens and yellows with LEDs. Thank goodness I love the shimmer effect and the light this sucker produces. Swear it doesn't look so washed out and bleak in-person.

Gonna add some Willow Moss later. Forgot to do that while the tank was half empty.

Can't wait to add a few PFRs tomorrow!

Now I need to decide what I want to do with the full tank. I KNOW I want some SS/SSS CBS. Maybe move a few Amano Shrimp over. Just can't decide if I want to add some extra Otos I've got to this tank or move 5-6 of them to my Ebi with the dozen Boraras brigittae, dozen Amano Shrimp, Yellow Shrimp and snails. Their bioload is nil so that wouldn't hurt much. . I guess they can live in my quarantine tank for as long as they want, really.

Feels nice to to be at this stage of the new tank game. It'll be pretty in six months.


----------



## sayurasem

Hows the light working for you?
I'm doing my emersed with my 12 gallon with 20" Oddysea 36W dual T5HO.
Trying to make a lush green lawn of HC. I was thinking of Coralife 36" dual T5NO fixture because of the sleek, thin look. But it seems they have a crappy reflector.

I just like thin, as thin as possible fixtures because the tank itself looks thin too.


----------



## somewhatshocked

I think the Coralife fixture would be fine because the tank is quite shallow. 

Really enjoy this Marineland Double Bright. The shorter Marineland fixtures aren't as nice but this one has worked well for me. I really like it.


----------



## somewhatshocked

TDS is up to 145. Part of that is from the water that remained in the tank and filter before the water change. If TDS hits 160 tomorrow, I'll do another massive water change or two to make sure I get all the junk out.

Having used this rock before, I have a good sense of where solids should sit. And it's one of the reasons I decided to use it. Also provides the perfect texture for algae and junk for shrimp to nom on. 

It's my first time using Azoo Plant Grower Bed for Crystals so I'm hoping I have a good experience with it.


----------



## bluestems

somewhatshocked said:


> Really enjoy this Marineland Double Bright. The shorter Marineland fixtures aren't as nice but this one has worked well for me. I really like it.


I like the look of your light too, and with the recommendation I think I will try it. 

Nice looking tank! I love the long sleek tanks.


----------



## somewhatshocked

TDS was 160 this morning. Another big water change and it looks like things are stabilizing just under 150. I think I've hit the sweet spot.

Also... I really had forgotten just how great Purigen is. The difference in water clarity is borderline obscene. I should wait to add it to every tank I start instead of doing so really early. Allows me to see the difference. Best $6 ever spent.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Added 20 adult PFRs and two juvies and four Anubias nana 'petite' I found in the back of my quarantine tank (yay).

Here's a full tank shot:










You can see that the Bacopa desperately needs a trim so it can continue bushing up.

Marsilea minuta is thickening. C. parva is doing its thing. E. parkeri are all flowering and growing in after losing some dead leaves. Dropped in some Ramshorns and three small Horned Nerites. 

More of the Painted Fire Reds:





































Really enjoy walking by the tank and seeing all kinds of red critters from above:










Now I just need to wait a week or two before ordering 5-10 CBS.


----------



## dasob85

awesome  nice pfrs! can't wait to see the cbs


----------



## somewhatshocked

Thanks! 

I'll be ready to add them soon enough. Just have to find the right seller first. And decide whether I want to add SS or SSS. Or even run of the mill CBS.


----------



## manualfocus

Looking nice, Jake!


----------



## somewhatshocked

Thanks.

I'm going to give it 5-6 months before I pass judgment on whether or not I want a different scape. Figure it's best for me to be patient and allow the Bacopa to get bushy and the Marsilea to grow in thick.

Let's see if I have that kind of patience! Ha.


----------



## NanoPlanted101

somewhatshocked said:


> Added 20 adult PFRs and two juvies and four Anubias nana 'petite' I found in the back of my quarantine tank (yay).
> 
> Here's a full tank shot:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see that the Bacopa desperately needs a trim so it can continue bushing up.
> 
> Marsilea minuta is thickening. C. parva is doing its thing. E. parkeri are all flowering and growing in after losing some dead leaves. Dropped in some Ramshorns and three small Horned Nerites.
> 
> More of the Painted Fire Reds:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really enjoy walking by the tank and seeing all kinds of red critters from above:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I just need to wait a week or two before ordering 5-10 CBS.


Very nice tank! I love the little shrimps hanging on the plants


----------



## Greedy

Nice, super red shirmp! I love the long tanks.


----------



## jingleberry

Beautiful set up and beautiful shrimp! :thumbsup:


----------



## somewhatshocked

Thanks. It's really growing on me as I see the tank get more green every day.

Think it's time for me to order some CBS. 

So, folks, 5-10 SS? Thoughts?


----------



## sayurasem

i would order 5, then another 5.
or if shipping is a problem, then I guess order the whole 10.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Thought on it for an hour. Definitely ten SS CBS if I can find them. Figure that'll be my limit with the 20-22 PFRs already in the tank. Will provide just the right bit of contrast in this otherwise brightly-colored scape.

Think I decided on an automatic top-off system. Nothing major, something with just enough water that I won't flood the tank if there's a failure. I have ATOs on my larger systems and reefs at the office so I don't know why I didn't start off in the beginning with one on this tank. Losing less than a gallon per week but that's still enough for me to complain.  It's way easier to add a gallon of RO water to a container beneath the tank once a week than it is to spend a minute slowly adding water from a jug every day. Let's hear it for First World problems and my silly complaints!

Confession: also ordered a programmable thermal fan controller from Cooler Guys with a waterproof thermal probe. Currently using one to cool the components hidden beneath my theatre system (w/o the waterproof probe, obviously) and it works like magic. Can't wait to have that added temperature insurance on this rig. Maybe my little Dachshund-Terrier mix, Millhouse, will also enjoy barking into my tank fans as he does the component cabinet fans.


----------



## somewhatshocked

I'm confident the filtration system can handle another ten shrimp. My concern is/was mostly about aesthetics and whether or not the tank would look crowded. Then I realized this tank will be awesome with about a billion shrimp.



sayurasem said:


> i would order 5, then another 5.
> or if shipping is a problem, then I guess order the whole 10.


----------



## dasob85

nothing wrong with a billion shrimp


----------



## somewhatshocked

Well, there'll soon be a billion in there. Once I find some quality CBS.


----------



## vvDO

somewhatshocked said:


> I'm confident the filtration system can handle another ten shrimp. My concern is/was mostly about aesthetics and whether or not the tank would look crowded. Then I realized this tank will be awesome with about a billion shrimp.


Looked great without shrimp, would love to see a video once you have all your shrimp.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Here's a look at some of my PFRs nomming on food I make:










Ordered some SSS CBS and one with a crown last night. They should be here Monday or Tuesday. Excitement builds.


----------



## somewhatshocked

You know that feeling you get the night before, say, $100+ worth of shrimp arrive?

I have that feeling right now. EXCITEMENT BUILDS.

Also discovered about 20 baby PFRs foraging about. They must have hatched not long after the adults were moved to the tank as they're quite large for babies.


----------



## radioman

I skimmed through but didn't see if you had co2 or were dosing ferts. Also if you aren't using co2 or ferts how did you know how far up your light needed to be to avoid algae?


----------



## somewhatshocked

Mentioned it all in the first post, for the most part.

It's a shrimp-only tank with PFRs. Will be housing some more expensive shrimp beginning tomorrow, as well. So no CO2 and no dosing. Have to maintain near-perfect water conditions. But I am using Azoo Plant Grower Bed, which provides some basic nutrients for the no-frills plants I'm growing. 

I always suspend lighting based on the way it looks and feels. Not scientific by any means but it works for me. Helps that a couple other forum members have used the same fixture on the same tank and ran into algae issues without raising it.



radioman said:


> I skimmed through but didn't see if you had co2 or were dosing ferts. Also if you aren't using co2 or ferts how did you know how far up your light needed to be to avoid algae?


----------



## somewhatshocked

Got a bunch of new SSS-SSS+ CBS from Tuan.

Here's a teaser:










Currently dripping into their new home.


----------



## somewhatshocked

In their new home and doing swell. Some iPhone shots:










































All eight of them already making friends with the PFRs.

Unrelated note: You'll notice in a few of the shots the different beams of light that appear to be hitting the substrate. With a rippling surface created by my DIY spray bar, the LEDs have a noticeable shimmer effect. Tends to create a more realistic level of lighting throughout the tank with changing currents. It's never the same and is constantly changing. Took some getting used to but I really like it.


----------



## manualfocus

Everything's turning out nicely! I really like the shimmer the LEDs are giving off.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Originally thought my PFRs would be aggressive toward the CBS and hog food sources. Primarily because they're 2-3 times the size of these CBS and because Neos have always bullied my other non-Neo shrimp (other than Tigers).

To my surprise, these little guys have been jumping the PFRs, shooing them away and literally stealing food from them. 

My, how the shrimp tides have turned.


----------



## dasob85

man, I'm always jealous of your tanks! especially since i have the same one!


----------



## somewhatshocked

Jealous?! Ha! Thank you.

But they're not that fancy. Definitely not up there in the most attractive on the forum. But I try to keep things functional and easy to maintain.


----------



## dasob85

keeping it easy to maintain is a victory in itself! helps you enjoy doing it  pretty cbs cant hurt either

I'm just hoping I didn't dig myself into too big a maintenance hole with co2 at this point lol.


----------



## somewhatshocked

I don't believe CO2 causes much of a maintenance increase. Not if you keep things in check and slowly balance ferts and lighting out.


----------



## dasob85

Well, CO2 promises robust growth  Lots of stems will mean lots of replanting, grrr.
I do have my light suspended pretty high now, with the co2. Going to start dosing ferts tomorrow. fingers crossed for no algae!


----------



## vvDO

somewhatshocked said:


> Originally thought my PFRs would be aggressive toward the CBS and hog food sources. Primarily because they're 2-3 times the size of these CBS and because Neos have always bullied my other non-Neo shrimp (other than Tigers).
> 
> To my surprise, these little guys have been jumping the PFRs, shooing them away and literally stealing food from them.
> 
> My, how the shrimp tides have turned.


Kind of like when my evil amano's steal food from all my fish. Shrimp look great... nom nom.


----------



## somewhatshocked

CBS have really colored up:










CBS know their place - they wait for the crazy PFRs to throw bits of food into the surrounding water:










Oh, nope, here they come:










Bacopa australis is awesome for shrimp:










But even small horned Nerites are a you-know-what when it comes to uprooting Marsilea minuta:










Still loving this tank.


----------



## FlyingHellFish

^ That is one of the most beautiful painted red shrimp I ever seen, how did you get the glossy look with the painted look?

Mine are either full glossy dark red or painted red.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Good food (primarily my own that I make and sell), clean water, stable conditions.

The LEDs make colors look a bit washed out in these cell phone shots. The shell thickness and gloss are much more pronounced in real life. 



FlyingHellFish said:


> ^ That is one of the most beautiful painted red shrimp I ever seen, how did you get the glossy look with the painted look?
> 
> Mine are either full glossy dark red or painted red.


----------



## FlyingHellFish

So wait, did you buy them like that or did they coloured up once you feed them your "food"? 

Like many others, I took the plunge and got some expensive shrimp food that is was said to increase colour etc, all my shrimps except the amano, hate the stuff.

Great tank by the way! A few pages back there was a lawn of UG (I think it's UG), mind telling me your dosing and light?


----------



## somewhatshocked

Thanks.

These PFRs are a mix of my own stock and some that I've purchased from various forum members. Primarily offspring from all mixed together. But diet and conditions play strong roles in appearance.

Good shrimp food doesn't have to be expensive. Fresh spinach, algae wafers, zucchini, Hikari Shrimp Cuisine, my own foods, Repashy, Azoo, et al. Fresh is key. All those are cheap.

No UG in this tank, no dosing. All the lighting information is in the very first post of the thread and discussed throughout. Marineland Double Bright fixture.


----------



## Weasilb

Joined the forums specifically to subscribe to this thread. More or less been addicted since late February, keep up the great work pal


----------



## yellowsno

i like the set up... well done... subscribed also... 

quick question... notice any bowing in the stand... or is it still holding up to the weight?


----------



## dasob85

Hmm... are you doing anything special with ferts? my bacopa australis is not doing so well.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Nope, nothing other than the nutrient-rich substrate I'm using. 

Bacopa is heavy on the root feeding.


----------



## dasob85

okay thanks. I just assumed all stems are more of a water column feeder


----------



## somewhatshocked

Bacopa australis after a major trim:










Don't let anyone tell you it's not going to grow well in a low-light, low-tech environment. And, go buy up my trimmings ASAP so I don't have to put them in a grow-out tank.

CBS from Tuan are looking awesome:










This PFR is so berried she can barely move:










Love watching the little eyes in her eggs with a magnifying glass.

The E. parkeri looks great for a few days, flowers and goes back to looking like this:










Think I'm just going to move it to a different tank and replace it all with C. parva to mirror the left side of the tank. 

The Wild-Type Willow Moss is spreading and I can't wait to have a tank full of it:










It's all still a work in progress but I'm really enjoying the tank. Great size, shape. Great for shrimp.


----------



## somewhatshocked

P.S. Just found a PFR juvie I didn't know I had:










Guess one of the females had an egg or two I didn't know about when I moved them over to the tank.

For size reference, that CBS is a sub-adult and the PFR juvie is about the length of two Azoo Plant Grower Bed granules.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Okay. I'm way over the top-offs. DEFINITELY going to buy a DIY auto top-off kit for this tank. I've been topping off at least a gallon per week.

It's my first open-top tank in this condo/loft and I'm not used to this much evaporation. Who knew it was so dry in here? Sure, I run a dehumidifier system and, well, have 30ft ceilings but I didn't anticipate it. I've got dozens of open-top tanks in my office and have had them in previous homes with no worries. I top my 120 off at work with about a gallon a week. Guess there's a first time for everything. Even in the 10,000% humidity of the Ohio Valley/right on the river. Hoo boy.

And I thought I was keeping things simple by not using reefing equipment. Ha. Shame on me for trying to be all simplistic.

Guess I'll have to do it before the cooling fans kick in later in the summer. Because then I'll likely be topping off a billion percent of the water each week.


----------



## Michiba54

Nice set up, your Bacopa blows mine out of the water.

How are you liking the Azoo plant grower? Its one of the 3 subs I'm looking into from my first shrimp tank... I really like the round black/brown balls from baked clay soil substrates for some reason.

Maybe I am weird?


----------



## somewhatshocked

Thanks. I've found it just needs good flow to get bushy. There was a period of time when I wasn't so keen on it but now it looks pretty cool from all angles. Shrimp seem to enjoy it was much as moss, too.

The Azoo stuff is pretty good. Holding up well, seems to be supplying plants with everything they need so far. It's also heavy enough that shrimp and snails aren't able to easily uproot delicate plants. I'd say it's a good bang for your buck if you can't get your hands on Aquasoil.


----------



## sunyang730

There are so many to learn to keep a tank. LOL and today from Jake I just learned that there is such thing as auto top off kit. I have all my tank top off, and basically i have to add some water everyday. LOL will that cause a problem? Or should I get a top off kit too?


----------



## somewhatshocked

Auto top-off kits are just a luxury item and are not necessary. I would not recommend one unless you're well-experienced in that realm. The most reliable systems are complicated, expensive and can still fail so they require quite a bit of planning. 

Many reef tank keepers use them because super-exact salinity requirements are necessary for a healthy reef. Keeping water levels constant in those tanks is key. I have them on all of my non-freshwater tanks.

In a planted or shrimp tank, the slight fluctuation doesn't matter as much, really. I'm going to use one because daily top-offs (slow pours, so as not to disturb plants/shrimp/substrate) is becoming more time consuming than I'd anticipated. And because the evaporation rate is apparently crazy in my condo.

The ATO system I have planned will only hold an amount of water that won't cause the tank to overflow if one of the components fail. Even though I'll have two float valves in the tank and one in the reservoir, things can still fail and I don't want to risk it.


----------



## sunyang730

LOL, waiting to see your setup. 

I am getting my 12g Long today. I just can't wait!!! and btw your food is just so good not that I tried but my shrimps love it. And you know what, my BKK loves it. (something that he will touch so I will consider that as LOVE) LOL


----------



## somewhatshocked

There are tons of auto top-off systems already in existence. Here's one method. Here's another.

Glad to hear it about the food!


----------



## somewhatshocked

All the Kentucky Derby shenanigans are going to cause me to pop a vein and/or melt my brain. Every year this city turns into a disaster zone and the population doubles. Which is a lot more people than you're probably thinking. 

Drunk people everywhere, strange stretch limos, all kinds of people taking over everything. And I thought my day job was crazy. 

So I've been shrimp nerding all evening to try to forget about the madness in the streets below.

Spent several hours with my new Goldens before ending up back at this tank.

And whattya know? More berried PFRs and several babies that must have been well hidden for a couple weeks. Also found a Horned Nerite that I thought had died of old age (I'd had it forever) weeks ago. Guess I had more than I thought!

Now, to wait for CBS babies. If I can find the patience.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Had a random CBS death. Not entirely sure what the deal is. Others are thriving, didn't appear to be bacterial or diseased but you never know.

On the other hand, I've got a bazillion berried PFRs and a berried CBS.


----------



## SomeCanuck

Random and completely off-topic question most likely a result of my newbishness towards shrimping, but what's that beige ball in the background? Is it one of those mineral ball things? I assume if it's in one of your awesome shrimp tanks, it comes recommended?


somewhatshocked said:


>


----------



## somewhatshocked

Azoo Max Bio Ball. Bacterial and enzyme concoction that slowly breaks down to help develop nice bacterial colonies in the substrate. Also a nice surface for junk to grow that shrimp feed on. Bacillus subtilis, Aspergllus olize, Bitido bacteruru, Protease, α-amylase.


----------



## SomeCanuck

Ooooooo! Spiffy! And thanks! *researches*


----------



## somewhatshocked

I tend to drop them in newer tanks as a boost. Sometimes I use the fancier brands. Completely unnecessary but sometimes fun to use. 

My favorite reason to use them: shrimp are always climbing all over them, making them easier to watch and photograph.


----------



## somewhatshocked

PFRs are doing well:










All of these are berried or have recently started dropping shrimplets:










You can kind of see one of the CBS off to the left. They're doing great, as well, but mostly only come to the front of the tank later in the evening.

Bought a new MagFox cleaner to use on the spray bar and plan to clean it out tomorrow.

Still enjoying this tank a bunch.


----------



## Geniusdudekiran

Love it!


----------



## somewhatshocked

Tank's in a bit of a transition phase at the moment. Some of the Bacopa australis stems need to be trained to bush out along the substrate and some are so thick the lower levels are looking blighted. Gonna have to do a bit of work on them soon. Didn't anticipate such rapid growth.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Did a monster trim of the Bacopa in this tank today and pulled out absolutely tons. So many that I had to offer them up for sale in the Power Sellers section. 

Who knew it would grow fast? For real. Super-fast.


----------



## ravensgate

Ok, so I started my own thread last night about helping me with a tank set up on a Mr Aqua 12L I'll be getting in a week. Then I found THIS thread. Lemme tell ya... inspiring, informational, beautiful...all words to describe this thread and your setup. So a big thank you from a new member and newbie to the shrimp world.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Thanks!

I really need to take some updated photos this weekend. Seems like I now have to trim the Bacopa at least once a week and I've had to thin out some of the Anubias because of weirdly explosive growth.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Even more PFR shrimplets:


























Guess I'ma have to net out some more babies soon and move them to my Cherry tank (so when people buy my Cherries, they're often getting PFRs, shhh).

Bacopa australis is beginning to flower on the surface of the water after another heavy trim:


















Can only spot five CBS today, as they are sneaky little hiding machines:


















Thinking about adding a few more SSS+ CBS this week.


----------



## Geniusdudekiran

Jake, do you have a DSLR? :hihi:

Love it. Are you going to grab some pictures of those wild neos for me? :bounce:


----------



## somewhatshocked

Yep, a Rebel T3i. Need to bring home more of my lenses. Just have an 18-55 and a 50mm 1.8 here. Those lenses + these cheap LEDs = disaster for photography. Some day I'll remember to bring home a macro.

I'll have to net some of the wild ones later this week. It's currently 97 degrees, though, so I don't want to pull them from the depths of the pond (but I did respond on that thread with a couple of the pics).


----------



## Geniusdudekiran

somewhatshocked said:


> Yep, a Rebel T3i. Need to bring home more of my lenses. Just have an 18-55 and a 50mm 1.8 here. Those lenses + these cheap LEDs = disaster for photography. Some day I'll remember to bring home a macro.
> 
> I'll have to net some of the wild ones later this week. It's currently 97 degrees, though, so I don't want to pull them from the depths of the pond (but I did respond on that thread with a couple of the pics).


Lol, I thought they were iPhone pics :icon_lol:...

That's a neat concept, I didn't think they'd stand those temperatures. Maybe I can buy some from you this summer :icon_mrgr

Tank looks great though!


----------



## somewhatshocked

The wild ones are definitely hardy. The water has been hitting 85-90 every summer for a few years. Though, I think some parts below the pump are cooler - especially where no light hits. 

If I can dig out enough hardy ones, I'll pass them to you for the cost of shipping.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Yet another berried PFR:










So many eggs they're poking out the sides.


----------



## Geniusdudekiran

Nice and red legs!


----------



## somewhatshocked

Time for a cell phone update!

Several generations of PFR babies:


























And the Anubias that looked horrible several months ago now look nice:










Will try to get an updated full tank shot sometime later.


----------



## FashionBiff

Love this tank, its a really neat size and great updates. Thank you


----------



## somewhatshocked

Did a water change and huge trim yesterday. Thought everything had gone well. Went upstairs when finished to do some work.

20ish minutes later, I came downstairs to find this critter nearly dried out on the rug about ten feet away from the tank:










It must have been clinging to a hose or plant during maintenance.

I know from personal experience that Neos are tough. But their durability never ceases to amaze me.


----------



## Geniusdudekiran

Wow, hope she's doing fine! Certainly one of the nicest looking PFRs I've seen in a while!


----------



## somewhatshocked

Active as ever!

I'm, dare I say it, somewhat shocked at the survival. The odds of not being crushed by a water bucket, not being stepped on by a giant oaf (me) or getting eaten by the dog are not exactly in a shrimp's favor.


----------



## FisheriesOmen

Well now you can sell them knowing that your Neos are good luck charms haha. Great tank and shrimp.


----------



## Bananariot

I'm running plant grower bed on my 12 long and I'm planting MM and s. repens. I'm running a 6700k t5 bulb right on top of the tank with no co2 atm. Will these plants grow in the bed fine or do I need to start using flourish comprehensive to help them a bit?


----------



## somewhatshocked

6700K T5NO or T5HO?

Either way, you've got too much light with the bulb right on top of the tank. You'll definitely have to provide CO2 and probably start dosing EI if you don't raise it up.


----------



## Bananariot

somewhatshocked said:


> 6700K T5NO or T5HO?
> 
> Either way, you've got too much light with the bulb right on top of the tank. You'll definitely have to provide CO2 and probably start dosing EI if you don't raise it up.


right on top. crud gotta get co2 up and running then.....I don't want to EI dose with TT's inside. Hmmmm gotta get my paintball up and running then damn


----------



## somewhatshocked

Can you raise the light fixture? That's always a better way to go with sensitive shrimp.


----------



## Bananariot

Eh do you know how high I will have to raise it? Problem is I kinda cheaped out and am using a vinyl folding table. so anything I use to raise it will probably just gonna have to be makeshift.


----------



## somewhatshocked

That really depends upon the fixture itself. Would need to see PAR data for it.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Keep getting requests for photos from above the tank. Here you go:










Everybody comes out of the woodwork when my OM NOM NOM is dropped into the tank:










Marsilea minuta is finally starting to thicken up:










Found two more berried mamas (PFRs) today. Breeding is getting out of control, so I'll soon need to sell more off, it seems.

Decided to eventually shut down my Ebi and put up an ADA 45-F in its place. Not sure if it'll be high-tech or not, as I'm torn between BTOE, Liam's Super Tigers and more Neos. The shape of this tank has obviously influenced me way too much.

Thanks for reading!

Jake


----------



## Bananariot

I don't remember if I asked you this, but are you running CO2 on this tank?


----------



## somewhatshocked

No CO2 or ferts, as the tank houses high-grade CBS.



Bananariot said:


> I don't remember if I asked you this, but are you running CO2 on this tank?


----------



## Bananariot

Hmm I want to end up carpeting my MM, so I'm gonna put co2 in mine just to see......my source for TT's said his still breed like rabbits in CO2 so I'm gonna give it a go.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Be sure to let us know how it goes in your journal!


----------



## Bananariot

You could do a mix of BTOE and Orange Neo's xD The water params would be similar enough to promote breeding among the both of them! I have my oranges with my crs, no such luck in their breeding.


----------



## somewhatshocked

May do that. Now trying to decide which substrate I want to use.


----------



## Bananariot

A light colored one? Or maybe brownish? It'll make your BTOE pop out. But your oranges may get lost in the color.


----------



## somewhatshocked

I'd ideally like to go with Aquasoil or Azoo Plant Grower Bed so I can have plants like crypts and such that are heavy root feeders. Not really keen on pushing root tabs into shrimp tanks. Though, I guess I can use Osmocote Plus rolled in little clay balls and such. And both of those substrates would likely require added crushed coral in a filter to jack the pH up.


----------



## Bananariot

Hmm I run azoo plant grower bed brown and I think it looks nice, had I known I was going TT's at the time, I would have gone black. But, does aquasoil come in brown? 
The BTOE will stick out like a sore thumb in that brown though so it'll be awesome. 


Also I don't like the sound of that ammonia spike, because it means the longer I have to wait for shrimp to be put in! hehe.

Is the flow on your spraybar turned to maximum? I have mine limited a little bit because I don't want the substrate being blown away........but I worry about not enough circulation.....may put in a powerhead in addition.......hmmm.


----------



## somewhatshocked

My focus is always plants first, shrimp second. So I'm comfortable with having to spend a few minutes looking at a tank to get the full picture of livestock and such. So I guess I'm not sure why I'm fretting over substrate, anyway. 

Re: spraybar - yep, filter is flowing at about 100%. It's probably more flow than most people are comfortable with but I've found more water movement to be absolutely necessary in this tank. Specifically surface agitation, which helps me keep the tank cooler on these 106 degree days.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Time to update basic parameters since so many people are asking (doing this for all the shrimp tanks I have journals for on TPT):


Temperature: 72

GH: 5.5-6

KH: 0-1

pH: 6.4-6.5

Nitrate: 5-10

TDS: 160

I target a TDS of about 140 when doing weekly 20% water changes and it always buffers back up to 160. 

This "lace rock" is helping me keep the pH up a bit. Otherwise, it'd be in the high 5s, I think.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Bacopa australis is blooming all over the place, especially in this tank (ignore the dirty spray bar):


































Included zoomed in bits in each photo.


----------



## Bananariot

Hmm your spray bar is located below the water surface and pointed up.....I never thought of that. I may do that and crank up the water flow. That means I have to pay attention and not let the water level get under the spraybar lol. 

Nice plants, I've never seen plants bloom underwater before, looks awesome. What's that plant vine going across the screen in the 3rd pic?


----------



## somewhatshocked

Yep, it's pointed slightly up at the surface. You may be able to tell in the photo above that I drilled every 3rd or 4th hole a bit lower than the rest so I could have better flow.

Having the bar directed at the surface, rather than above the surface spraying down, provides great surface agitation without any noise.

The stringy plant is a form of Utricularia that I can't eradicate from any of my tanks. Came in as a hitchhiker with some Utricularia graminifolia several years ago and I just get get rid of it to save my life. The other stringy things are roots from the Bacopa australis.


----------



## swoof

Bananariot said:


> Hmm I run azoo plant grower bed brown and I think it looks nice, had I known I was going TT's at the time, I would have gone black. But, does aquasoil come in brown?


Kind of. . . 
Amazonia = black
Maylay = yellowish brown
Africana = reddish brown


----------



## LB79

Amazonia's not really black, but it's near enough. If you can mix all three, they look totally sweet.


----------



## swoof

i've thought of getting a bag of all three and mixing the substrates like that, lol. I'm only missing some Maylay right now.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Time for a quick update!

Here's a rough FTS mid-trim:










Now that the Bacopa australis is well-established, I'm going to start trimming it way down to the base of each stem so I can train it to be more bushy. Also gonna start adding some ferts beneath the bed of Marsilea minuta to help it grow a bit.

Transferred some new C. parva to the right front:










To match the old Crypts on the left:










Decided I like pool filter sand as a substrate for my next tank (BTOE - though, I want a new Cory tank so badly I can taste it):


----------



## somewhatshocked

Some shrimp nerding stuff!

True community feeding - PFR, CBS, Pond Snail, Ramshorn:










Young PFR sharing with a CBS buddy:










Why I'll always use pre-filter sponges in shrimp tanks with canisters:










OM NOM NOM (note the PFR shrimplets off to the right):


----------



## somewhatshocked

All right. It's official. Ditching Mosura Mineral Plus Ultra for good. It is just not consistent bottle to bottle and some Googling reveals there may be a lot of imitation product on the market.

Looks like it's CA+ from here on out.

Mineral Plus Ultra was the perfect product for a few years and I don't want this to sound like I'm trashing it. I just can no longer risk it with sensitive, expensive shrimp.

(I'll save the nightmare I had this morning to share for another day)


----------



## Bananariot

I use shirakura Ca+ and it's one of the best products I have used to date. However, I don't know the bottle to bottle consistency, for some reason the mineral water I buy from Stop and Shop is exactly kH-0, gh-5, pH 6.5..........making it near perfect. So Shirakura sits in my cabinet for now. 

hehe I have around 40-50 corydoras in my 110g. Bandits, Pandas, albinos, and Green lasers (which I bought as regular greens)


----------



## somewhatshocked

Oh my goodness. I want 40-50 Cories! Must. Resist.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Snapped some quick shots of a few different powerheads for a shrimper here on the forum and thought it'd be a good idea to share here for size comparisons.

Here's the size of the Hydor Pico 200 & 400:










Hydor Koralia 240:










Rio 50 & 90:


----------



## FreshPuff

Awesome tank! And those PFR are the finest I have ever seen!


----------



## somewhatshocked

Thanks!

It's a work in progress and within 2-3 more months, I think I'll have it where I want it.


----------



## somewhatshocked

All right. It's official. 

All of the SSS+ CBS in this tank are the same gender. Guess I have to go through the process of finding more high quality CBS if I want to breed them. Moving my SS+ CRS to this tank, Pure Red Line quality that they are, just doesn't seem like a good idea at this point.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Okay. Here is a massive head - desk issue.

I can't for the life of me keep Pond Snails from escaping the tank and ending up half way across the room! Bladder Snails, Nerites, Ramshorns - they all stay in just fine. But these dang Pond Snails (which are one of my favorites and I purposefully breed them in tons of tanks) can't stop leaving. 

I've found a bunch of eggs laid on the exterior of the tank lately. So it's pretty clear to me what they're up to. I just wish they'd... you know... not do this. Ha.


----------



## meowschwitz

somewhatshocked said:


> Okay. Here is a massive head - desk issue.
> 
> I can't for the life of me keep Pond Snails from escaping the tank and ending up half way across the room! Bladder Snails, Nerites, Ramshorns - they all stay in just fine. But these dang Pond Snails (which are one of my favorites and I purposefully breed them in tons of tanks) can't stop leaving.
> 
> I've found a bunch of eggs laid on the exterior of the tank lately. So it's pretty clear to me what they're up to. I just wish they'd... you know... not do this. Ha.


I know what you mean. Stepped on an empty dried-up pond snail shell pretty far from the tank and scared myself to sh!t when I heard and felt the crunch.


----------



## Geniusdudekiran

Maybe lowering the water a tad would discourage them?


----------



## somewhatshocked

Thought that could be a component of their escapes. So I lowered it an inch and they kept it up. 

Here's hoping it's just related to atmospheric pressure or something. Or maybe it's seasonal. All I know is they need to stop.


----------



## Geniusdudekiran

Do they always escape from the same side/in the same direction? Or is it just random?


----------



## somewhatshocked

I never see them until it's too late but I'm assuming it's random.

Started using a magnetic cleaner to go around the top rim this morning to make sure they're not trying to get at the stuff that ends up on the glass as water evaporates. Hopefully that'll help.


----------



## Geniusdudekiran

somewhatshocked said:


> I never see them until it's too late but I'm assuming it's random.
> 
> Started using a magnetic cleaner to go around the top rim this morning to make sure they're not trying to get at the stuff that ends up on the glass as water evaporates. Hopefully that'll help.


Ah, that makes sense. 

I use a toothbrush now to clean my glass; I used to use a MagFloat, but after a piece of sand got trapped under it from another tank, I used it in my ADA tank and put a nice little scratch on the front glass :icon_frow

Luckily, it's pretty hard to see unless you're looking at it from a certain angle.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Am beginning to think my snail exodus could have something to do with Bacopa australis blooming. This sounds completely silly, I know.

But it's blooming like CRAZY:


















Nearly every stem I've got of it is blooming. Many of them breaching the water's surface and many blooming beneath.

On the flip, my PFR juvies are beginning to be as red as the adults:


















And I think I've lost a CBS but can't tell just yet, as they hide more than the PFRs. Definitely need to get a few more SSS+ CBS soon, though, so they can breed.


----------



## Bananariot

SSS+ Cbs do look nice....gotta get me some....either that or panda experiment! 

Maybe the bacopa blooming is releasing something into the water that the snails hate.....if that's the case then I'm getting some bacopa lmao.


----------



## somewhatshocked

To do it or not to do it?

I'm still toying with moving a PRL CRS or two to the tank for breeding purposes.


----------



## Sony

Lol y u post pics of it in bags, breh?!


----------



## somewhatshocked

What?



Sony said:


> Lol y u post pics of it in bags, breh?!


----------



## Geniusdudekiran

somewhatshocked said:


> What?


+1, lol.


----------



## acitydweller

Do it! Do EEEt!


----------



## shinycard255

somewhatshocked said:


> What?


Yeah... no clue... lol



acitydweller said:


> Do it! Do EEEt!


I say totally do it! *DO IT!*


----------



## somewhatshocked

I suppose I'll do it. Now I need to watch my 12gal closely so I can see what gender my CBS are.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Biting the bullet.

Currently acclimating a nice CRS. And I _believe_ it's female. Really tough to tell with all of these higher grade shrimp.


----------



## somewhatshocked

She's already coloring up and the guys seem interested:


























Here's hoping I don't regret this mixture.


----------



## Bananariot

That's a sexy looking CBS. I love the look of crowns.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Only a matter of time til one of the five CBS breed with the CRS.


----------



## larcat

MoAr tank shots! Did you get the CBS?

I'm calculating 7 inches from the rim on your light based off the pics.

Is that about right?

-Larcat


----------



## somewhatshocked

I'll try to take some updated shots this weekend.

Have had SSS+ CBS in the tank for several months. Decided to add a PRL CRS for purposes of breeding, as I can't justify spending what would cost me at least $75-$80 to have a couple high grade CBS shipped to me.

The fixture is about 7-8 inches from the rim of the tank, yep. Just depends upon the current amount of growth I've got in the tank at the time and whether or not something near the substrate needs a bit more lighting. Depending upon the location in the tank, the light is anywhere from 12 inches to 15 inches from the substrate.


----------



## somewhatshocked

The CRS is adjusting well to the tank. 

During a feeding frenzy:










Still hoping for breeding. May have to move a couple others over if I can't make it happen.

Random note: The PFR with the light-colored splotch near its head? It's just over two-years-old. Think it's nearing the end of the line.


----------



## somewhatshocked

FACT: Utricularia gibba will be the death of me.


----------



## catfishbi

Nice CRS!! they are from?


----------



## somewhatshocked

The single CRS in this tank was pulled from one of my 20Ls.

I've got several lines of CRS and PRL CRS, so it's tough to know where it originates.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Dear everyone: Duckweed can be your friend. ESPECIALLY in a shrimp tank.

Had a filter mishap last night that caused a nitrate spike. Added two handfuls of Duckweed and nearly all of the nitrate was gone by this afternoon when I was able to replace the filter.


----------



## somewhatshocked

While I'm obviously a fan of my own speciality shrimp foods that I sell here on TPT, it's always fun to see shrimp flock to it:










And to see them grab and go:










Here's another look at the CRS I added to the tank:










Seems to always get pinkish like that around breeding time. Here's hoping! Hope hope hoping.


----------



## fplata

Babies in the making


----------



## somewhatshocked

I wish!

But something tells me I'm going to need to isolate a pair in my hang-on breeder box in order to get results.



fplata said:


> Babies in the making


----------



## Geniusdudekiran

somewhatshocked said:


> Dear everyone: Duckweed can be your friend. ESPECIALLY in a shrimp tank.
> 
> Had a filter mishap last night that caused a nitrate spike. Added two handfuls of Duckweed and nearly all of the nitrate was gone by this afternoon when I was able to replace the filter.


This is very true. I use duckweed in my rili shrimp tank. It's a low light, no ferts. No CO2 tank, and I only ever top it off. Well, maybe I did a water change once, but that's it, and it's been up for months.

I am doing a research project on this for my junior year, and one very interesting thing about duckweed that I have discovered, among other floating plants, is that in the presence of compounds like nitrites as well as ammonia, it will preferentially "suck up" the ammonia. Which can make it pretty useful.


----------



## rocksmom

somewhatshocked said:


> While I'm obviously a fan of my own speciality shrimp foods that I sell here on TPT, it's always fun to see shrimp flock to it...


So am I! I started noticing a trend where some days they would be really bright and other days they would be more pale. Finally figured out that they were brighter after eating the complete veggie. I have babies in there now too and it's cute watching them grab the little pieces that flake off from the adults eating.


----------



## Bananariot

Geniusdudekiran said:


> This is very true. I use duckweed in my rili shrimp tank. It's a low light, no ferts. No CO2 tank, and I only ever top it off. Well, maybe I did a water change once, but that's it, and it's been up for months.
> 
> I am doing a research project on this for my junior year, and one very interesting thing about duckweed that I have discovered, among other floating plants, is that in the presence of compounds like nitrites as well as ammonia, it will preferentially "suck up" the ammonia. Which can make it pretty useful.


Lol hells yeah, I remember doing this my senior year and wondering which plants would be beneficial to add to get rid of certain chemicals. Ends up duckweed when presented in the same concentrations of ammonia and nitrite, ammonia's concentration was lowered. However, I didn't consider other factors (like the impact of pH on the compounds) but it was an interesting find anyways!


----------



## somewhatshocked

Mission accomplished! She's berried!










Can't wait til the CRS momma pops out some CBS x CRS babies.


----------



## Bananariot

somewhatshocked said:


> Mission accomplished! She's berried!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can't wait til the CRS momma pops out some CBS x CRS babies.


Nice!


----------



## somewhatshocked

Just my luck that she would get berried the second I get the breeder box going. Heh.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Some shots with my $4 iPhone macro lens:


----------



## Geniusdudekiran

Sweet shots, for that price!


----------



## somewhatshocked

Might be the best $4 I've ever spent. It's the cheap-o macro-wide angle kit. $4.90 shipped.



Geniusdudekiran said:


> Sweet shots, for that price!


----------



## Bananariot

somewhatshocked said:


> Might be the best $4 I've ever spent. It's the cheap-o macro-wide angle kit. $4.90 shipped.


Can you link the one you got? I was looking at these but there's so many. Plus I want to get one that's proven to work


----------



## Geniusdudekiran

somewhatshocked said:


> Might be the best $4 I've ever spent. It's the cheap-o macro-wide angle kit. $4.90 shipped.


Certainly well spent. The only thing about the iPhone camera is that colors are very oversaturated.

If you want to spend another well-spent $8, you can get a nice macro extension ring for your DSLR. Now *that* is the best $8 I've ever spent! :thumbsup:

Here's an example shot I took with the extension ring:










I can provide you with a link if you want.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Nice! Sure, send it my way.

I've got a macro lens at my office but don't have one at home with the T3i.


----------



## midlife_hobbyist

Dude!!
2 things...
1.) Nice pictures with $4 lens. Holy Cow!!!
2.) Your threads (which I've been reading) have caused me to not get anything done today...
I am reallly liking the look of your tanks


----------



## somewhatshocked

Thanks! Tanking is tons of fun. 

This forum is going to cause you to develop quite an addiction.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Food fight?










OM NOM NOM!


----------



## Bananariot

Was taken with your iphone too? I ended up getting a different one off amazon cause the original one was shipping from Hong Kong and was gonna get here in sept. The one i got qualifies for amazon prime and free 2 day shipping so it was a no brainer.

I can't believe a little lens like that could make such a big difference in picture quality....I should have gotten one sooner


----------



## somewhatshocked

The one I linked you to via private message ships & arrives in 2-3 days from the U.S. for $4.90.

But the lenses definitely improve cellphone shots.


----------



## Bananariot

What the fudge....I hit add to cart twice and it says shipping from hong kong. Dunno but I can see the one you linked ships from the US....

Anyways I think I ended up buying the same one somehow lmao.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Either way, it's well worth the $4!


----------



## somewhatshocked

People constantly ask how I'm able to keep a ready water supply for replenishing all of my tanks at home.

Here's the non-secret: I spent $30 and got two 20gal Rubbermaid Brute trashcans with lids at the big box hardware store. I fill them up about once per month. Keep a powerhead in each one (on timers) to circulate water every few hours. 

That's how I always have fresh RO water for tanks.


----------



## sunyang730

I put them in a bucket with a cover and have a air stone running in there.


----------



## somewhatshocked

sunyang: That's the perfect setup if you have a tank that only needs a couple gallons per week.


----------



## sunyang730

Not just because of that. My RO filter wasn't drip dropping. I got the API from amazon and it gives me a TDS of 0 AND fast speed. LOL So I am happy enough and yes, I can't finish the water in a week either. LOL


----------



## Bananariot

To get a picture like the PFR's above, do you do full zoom in with the .67x wide as well as the macro lens on?


----------



## somewhatshocked

There's no zooming. Just the cheap macro lens attached with a magnetic ring.

Your mileage may vary... depending upon your phone's camera, lighting, movement, etc.



Bananariot said:


> To get a picture like the PFR's above, do you do full zoom in with the .67x wide as well as the macro lens on?


----------



## Bananariot

somewhatshocked said:


> There's no zooming. Just the cheap macro lens attached with a magnetic ring.
> 
> Your mileage may vary... depending upon your phone's camera, lighting, movement, etc.


I have the normal iphone 4, no siri  lol.

uhh so you don't use the .67x wide lens? Only the screw in macro one?


----------



## somewhatshocked

Yep, just the little macro lens.


----------



## Bananariot

somewhatshocked said:


> Yep, just the little macro lens.


Ah I'm a macro photo virgin so lol...yeah I didn't even know there's a specific distance you have to be from the shrimp. Mine is around 2 inches, otherwise it's blurry if I'm too close or too far. I thought I could zoom and take pictures of ones like in the back of the tank from the front, guess i can't lol


----------



## somewhatshocked

The best advice I can give is feed tasty bits in the front of your tank. Then wait til they pounce.


----------



## Bananariot

somewhatshocked said:


> The best advice I can give is feed tasty bits in the front of your tank. Then wait til they pounce.


Haha that is good advice, I'm gonna try that with your food. They love your veggie sticks lmao.

Uhh do you know what light would be best? Well lit or dim? I had better luck with my 12 long than my 3 long. My 3 long comes out grainy, but its also got worse lighting and the 12 long has ambient natural light from the window as well as a light fixture. My 3 long only has a fixture.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Every time I get the same question a few times in a row, I figure it's a good idea to answer it on my shrimp tank threads.

How do I use almond leaves?

I just chuck one into each shrimp tank every 2-3 weeks or once they're devoured. Sure, many people use them for tannins but I use them as shrimp food. Great for baby survival and great all-around munching for adults - especially on days when I don't feed or forget to feed.


----------



## tdw1989

can you send me the link for the lens as well I'd like to take better pictures with my iphone thanks


----------



## wetbizquit

wait so you dont use a RO filtration system?? you just use buckets of water with circulation??


----------



## somewhatshocked

Yes, I have an RO/DI system. See above: "fresh RO water". I store it in 20gal cans.



wetbizquit said:


> wait so you dont use a RO filtration system?? you just use buckets of water with circulation??


----------



## wetbizquit

ha ha ok i was like uhhhh whaaa? i figured the best way would be to store it in big bins with an airstone, thats what im planning on, but im not sure which filtration system to buy, any tips??


----------



## somewhatshocked

Buy the best you can afford. And be certain you google around for reviews of the company you decide to buy from. Also check various Better Business Bureau sites. Since we can't offer vendor reviews here, I'm just stressing that you do some research before dropping $150-$200.

There's no one singular great brand or great company to buy from. Just shop around and get a good 5-6 stage filter.

About airstones... you'll need an air pump strong enough to run a stone at the bottom of a bin or trash can. If you're planning on buying an extra pump to use, it may be just as cost effective to buy a small powerhead.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Note to self: careful when trimming plants around your Anubias or you'll accidentally snip off a gorgeous flower.


----------



## wetbizquit

thanks for the input Jake! i will do some good research, i've been looking for used ones...

do you still have food for sale??


----------



## somewhatshocked

Sure do - in the For Sale section here. Should probably start a new thread for it in a week or so, as it's fallen to the bottom.

Unless you can get a used one for $30-$40, I'd save those pennies until you can come up with the price for a new one. Because used ones would require the purchase of new cartridges and such. I think it's the best investment you can make if you have any concerns about tap water or plan to keep sensitive critters like shrimp.


----------



## wetbizquit

thank you for your input, might wait for a new one, just have limited funds, im trying to get my shrimp breeding project underway, have a few 20 gallon longs to put to use, i will need to get some food from you soon, hopefully you will keep me in mind on a good deal 

if you have any plants or equipment, or feeding bowls, cholla wood or anything im looking for a package deal, just PM me if you do! love your setups by the way


----------



## somewhatshocked

Will try to find time later today for photographs but wanted to make a quick update.

Marsilea minuta has finally started growing in and spreading after the SLOWEST ACCLIMATION EVER.

BUT! I have several baby Crystals roaming around, as the momma finally popped open her eggs a couple days ago. So far, they all appear to be CBS and are coloring up solidly. We'll see how that goes over time.

Still loving this tank despite now considering a different background planting.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Still no photos. Life has gotten in the way of taking pictures this week, apparently.

While feeding last night, though, I discovered a berried CBS. After all this time being certain all of my CBS were male? Bam, one gets berried. Guess I didn't need the PRL CRS in the tank after all.


----------



## bitFUUL

Give us some new photos already shocked! Wanna see some of those new shrimp too.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Don't have enough time this week to dig out a lens so here are some phone shots:

Some CRS babies:


























CBS baby:










PFR babies coloring up:


----------



## somewhatshocked

Think my worst nightmare is coming to fruition. I may have to move my tanks 400 miles away. HEART PALPS! Headaches! Might have a stroke.

So... here's hoping there are a bunch of you TPTers ready to sit in the back of a van with me for a day to make sure nothing goes wrong. :icon_eek:


----------



## Bananariot

somewhatshocked said:


> Think my worst nightmare is coming to fruition. I may have to move my tanks 400 miles away. HEART PALPS! Headaches! Might have a stroke.
> 
> So... here's hoping there are a bunch of you TPTers ready to sit in the back of a van with me for a day to make sure nothing goes wrong. :icon_eek:


What the heck happened?


----------



## somewhatshocked

The joys of life and business. 

If the move happens, I predict a lot of styro coolers filled with breather bags. Or maybe several buckets with battery-powered air pumps.



Bananariot said:


> What the heck happened?


----------



## SomeCanuck

You could also look into getting some of those car lighter power adapter thingamajigs if you wanna run "normal" air pumps or filters. My uncle was a big hunter and fisher and would run powerbars off them to keep all his coolers going in the back of the truck. I don't think that's a recommended use for them, but it worked for him.


----------



## somewhatshocked

I do have a couple of those, so that's a great idea.


----------



## SomeCanuck

Glad to be of service.


----------



## Geniusdudekiran

If I were anywhere near you, I'd be glad to help... But of course that won't happen, lol.

To where are you moving?


----------



## somewhatshocked

Charlotte. Though, I think we've been able to put things off. At least for a while. (Though, with any luck and some effort on my part, it won't happen!)

This incident should really serve to keep me prepared for the worst. I think everyone should take my lead if they can swing it.

Now I have at the ready: Several unused buckets, extension cords, batteries, boards large enough to put a rimless tank on to easily move it (without water, of course), press-n-seal plastic wrap, duct tape, a couple spare Brute trash cans, insulating wrap, extra styrofoam containers, extra breather bags, ice packs, heat packs, yadda yadda.


----------



## Geniusdudekiran

somewhatshocked said:


> Charlotte. Though, I think we've been able to put things off. At least for a while. (Though, with any luck and some effort on my part, it won't happen!)
> 
> This incident should really serve to keep me prepared for the worst. I think everyone should take my lead if they can swing it.
> 
> Now I have at the ready: Several unused buckets, extension cords, batteries, boards large enough to put a rimless tank on to easily move it (without water, of course), press-n-seal plastic wrap, duct tape, a couple spare Brute trash cans, insulating wrap, extra styrofoam containers, extra breather bags, ice packs, heat packs, yadda yadda.


Hey, that's close! There's a nice LFS there, too, called Fintastic.

Glad to hear you can put it off.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Time for some new cell phone shrimp photos!

A brown baby snatching a tiny piece of barley and running away:


















CBS babies are coloring up nicely:


























One of the few CRS babies in the tank:










An itty bitty Pond Snail:










A tiny baby CBS I just discovered:










Hope to snap some proper tank pictures after a trim and water change.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Bacopa australis is blooming:










Shrimplets love to hang out beneath the filter intake sponge:










This PFR is nearing the end of the road:










Horned Nerite doing its job:


----------



## somewhatshocked

Feeding time with OM NOM NOM!










Marsilea minuta has really taken off after more than half a year. I figure it'll look perfect in another 2-3 months. Started adding my own homemade clay fert balls beneath it and that seems to have done the trick. Gonna leave all the old, dying growth for the shrimp and snails to continue devouring.

Found my PRL mama got berried again before I could move her back to my PRL-only tank:










Guess she'll have to wait another month to move back home.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Found these in the filter upon swapping out the Purigen bag:










Nine of them. 

Nice find!

Yes, I use a pre-filter sponge. I'm gonna start using something that's more tight fitting, though, for sure.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Craziness: half the shrimplets kicked the bucket upon being moved to the tank.


----------



## SomeCanuck

Change of parameters between the filter baskets and the tank itself, maybe?


----------



## somewhatshocked

That's the only thing I can imagine. Though, I've never had shrimp die upon being moved to the tank from the filter before.

The remaining half are alive and well.


----------



## somewhatshocked

I love this tank but am now beginning to really dislike the Bacopa australis:










The sides:



















Think I'm gonna have to give in and start training it to be more of a bushy plant than a tall stem.

The lone CRS baby in the tank:










Some CBS babies:


































Two almost-adults:


















I think I've almost got breeding them perfected. Nice shell thickness, nice coloration. Only a few more miles to go.


----------



## eeng168

Tank looks great!!!

I have a question about the stand. I know of it well but was wondering it you kept all 6 compartments in? Did you cut some boards? Where do you put the filter? Behind it or on the side? Nothing will fit in those 1 sq feet boxes.


----------



## somewhatshocked

If you take a look at the beginning of the thread, you'll see that the shelving unit has not been altered.

Filtration system has been hidden from view, though it's not in the unit.



eeng168 said:


> Tank looks great!!!
> 
> I have a question about the stand. I know of it well but was wondering it you kept all 6 compartments in? Did you cut some boards? Where do you put the filter? Behind it or on the side? Nothing will fit in those 1 sq feet boxes.


----------



## PinkRasbora

beautiful tank there. I want to steal some of your shrimplets lol


----------



## somewhatshocked

Thanks! The shrimplets seem to be growing up quite nicely.

Noticed a few more babies earlier today.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Feeling the urge to replace some of the Bacopa australis with more upright Bacopa stems (monnieri, salzmannii).

Or maybe some sort of Crypt. Any Crypt recommendations, fellow planted tankers?


----------



## MABJ

Jake, how will you train the bacopa? I'd like to do this with mine in the 18" 3 gal


From MABJ's iPhone
2G Fluval Spec ~ fauna and flora in the works!


----------



## somewhatshocked

Press it into your substrate. More specifically, as roots develop on the stem, push those down into your substrate. You'll nearly constantly have to press stray stems down but it becomes a little easier over time.


----------



## somewhatshocked

In the past three days I've gotten all kinds of private messages from people asking about bacterial infections. That's on top of all of the recent threads. And one thing is a constant, unfortunately: the supplier of shrimp. They're selling shrimp that haven't been quarantined and are spreading bacterial infections all over the place.

So I just want to remind folks who may be reading this to gauge your seller well before making a purchase. Take time to get to know them and make sure they're legit before you plop down $20-$50 on a single shrimp. If you don't know them on Aquabid? Don't throw your money away. Don't know them on TPT beyond a feedback score? Don't risk it. Know who you're buying from, what their practices are, how they care for their livestock before selling to you. You'll thank yourself.

This isn't to name names or harm anybody, as there are obviously terrific sellers here on TPT. Just please be sure the seller you choose reliable so these bacterial scares are rare.


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## bostoneric

somewhatshocked said:


> In the past three days I've gotten all kinds of private messages from people asking about bacterial infections. That's on top of all of the recent threads. And one thing is a constant, unfortunately: the supplier of shrimp. They're selling shrimp that haven't been quarantined and are spreading bacterial infections all over the place.
> 
> So I just want to remind folks who may be reading this to gauge your seller well before making a purchase. Take time to get to know them and make sure they're legit before you plop down $20-$50 on a single shrimp. If you don't know them on Aquabid? Don't throw your money away. Don't know them on TPT beyond a feedback score? Don't risk it. Know who you're buying from, what their practices are, how they care for their livestock before selling to you. You'll thank yourself.
> 
> This isn't to name names or harm anybody, as there are obviously terrific sellers here on TPT. Just please be sure the seller you choose reliable so these bacterial scares are rare.



:fish1: i wonder who the seller(s) are?!?!


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## somewhatshocked

It's really unimportant, as my point would be the same regardless of who the seller is. Not trying to cause drama but to help guide people toward avoiding the, well, easiest to avoid issues.

If people take the time to get to know the people they're buying from, they run into fewer problems like infection and sub-par livestock.



bostoneric said:


> :fish1: i wonder who the seller(s) are?!?!


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## bostoneric

totally agree and understand!


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## somewhatshocked

Two days ago this clump of Fissidens was covered in algae:










PFR juvies are making quick work of it.


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## beedee

man, those PFRs really pop against that moss! glad to hear they are doing some serious clean up in there for ya!


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## somewhatshocked

Since we can't post new threads until the forum admin resolves the SQL database errors (head - desk), guess I should update my journals.

Spent a bit of time looking through the tank today and discovered new CBS babies. PRL mama is berried _again_. I'd planned to remove her once she dropped her last babies and forgot. Dangit. 

Still enjoying this tank.


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## Merth

Hmm makes us wonder about new thread


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## somewhatshocked

Sneak peak of a 10gal I'm working on:










A look at another work in progress:


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## somewhatshocked

Final teaser:


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## Geniusdudekiran

Everything looks great!


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## somewhatshocked

Thanks.

I need to take updated shots of the 12gal this weekend. Pulled out 100+ plantlets of Frogbit this week and changed around some moss.

Suppose I should also create a couple new journals for the new projects.


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## somewhatshocked

P.S. Reef epoxy putty stinks. Man, how it stinks. Haven't had to do any rock setup with it in a couple years so I guess I forgot how gross it is. Even the dog ran away.

But it was totally worth it! Constantly surprised how many reef nerd tricks of mine can be easily translated to planted tanks.


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## bacon5

Wow really interested in what the lava rock is for


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## andrewss

lookin good... GL with the 10gallon tank setup


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## somewhatshocked

Best thing all week (wait, it's only Tuesday?): peeking at the tank a bit ago to discover all kinds of new Crystal babies!

I watch things like a hawk and had no idea there was a berried mama. Just goes to show that they're sneaky little bugs.


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## sunyang730

My CRS just got berried. I can't wait for it to show me some babies. LOL First time ever that I have a CRS berried.


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## somewhatshocked

That's great news!

You'll have more shrimp than you know what to do with about six months from now.


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## sunyang730

True. LOL once they adapt to your water.... they just keep breeding non stop.


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## somewhatshocked

Always fun finding new babies.

Can you spot them?










The juvenile CVS are growing up nicely:










Here's how Frogbit has adapted to the tank's high surface flow:


















A note: I figure the Marsilea minuta should be completely filled in by about... five years from now. Ha.


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## somewhatshocked

It's Om Nom Nom time in the tank!

But ignore the food, shrimp and the mass of algae covering that clump of Fissidens and focus on the Marsilea minuta:










I think it's beginning to grow in at a faster pace than I originally thought.


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## somewhatshocked

Houston, we have a problem!

I fell asleep on the bench in front of the tank and woke up to find a Pond Snail exploring my hand. 

Can you imagine how crazy life would be if my other half ever finds out? Hoo boy, guess it's time to start keeping snail secrets.


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## MABJ

somewhatshocked said:


> Houston, we have a problem!
> 
> I fell asleep on the bench in front of the tank and woke up to find a Pond Snail exploring my hand.
> 
> Can you imagine how crazy life would be if my other half ever finds out? Hoo boy, guess it's time to start keeping snail secrets.


LOL yeah they get out from time to time. Plop them back in if they are not dried out. 

Did it tickle? Haha


MABJ's iDevice used for this message


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## somewhatshocked

They definitely go exploring but almost never beyond the rim of the tank. A few months back (I either wrote about it in this journal or started a thread in the inverts forum, can't recall at the moment.... maybe both) I discovered that they love to leave this tank and go exploring during major barometric pressure shifts. Other than those moments, they've never gone quite this far.

Haha, yes, tickled to say the least. 

Most of them end up as Crusty McCrustersons by the time they reach the bottom of the tank and go exploring on the stand. This is a first.


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## MABJ

That's pretty awesome. Tell me more about these shifts? Don't believe I've ever even heard the term. 


MABJ's iDevice used for this message


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## somewhatshocked

I have no idea what the deal is but mine come outta the tank when there's a major weather front rolling through. Took me forever to figure it out and I still don't understand it entirely/haven't had enough time to truly observe.


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## MABJ

Well that's interesting I suppose. I'll keep an eye out myself. 


MABJ's iDevice used for this message


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## somewhatshocked

Weird snail observation time. 

Started raining pretty heavily this morning and all the snails in the tank congregated at the water surface. When it stopped, they all went back down into the tank.


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## MABJ

somewhatshocked said:


> Weird snail observation time.
> 
> Started raining pretty heavily this morning and all the snails in the tank congregated at the water surface. When it stopped, they all went back down into the tank.


So what do you think that means? The air pressure increases the pressure they experience in the water and they want to escape it?


MABJ's iDevice used for this message


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## somewhatshocked

Not sure what it means, other than it just seems to be typical behavior for them. I guess I don't notice in my tanks with rims because they all have covers and I just don't see it.

On another note: One of my oldest PFR females (at the moment) just died. 599 days old - almost made it to the 600 mark. She only had two clutches and lived about half her life with some molt-related deformities. Quite a record for this blood line.


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## somewhatshocked

Some of the CBS mischlings I recently added


















CBS offspring are growing up well:










Om Nom Nom time:


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## Bserve

Any updates Jake?


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## somewhatshocked

Just updated last week.

The tank is trudging along well. No recent changes.


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## somewhatshocked

As I mentioned here, just a note on the misconception that floaters can't handle any movement.

Here's a picture of the frogbit resting in tons of surface agitation of this tank:










Mother plants are placed behind the spray bar and they send out baby plants that remain attached. Those younger plants grow really well in the current created by the spray bar and as long as they stay attached/anchored to the mother plant, they're fine.


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## MABJ

I've also got floaters in high movement tanks. They don't do as well for me as they do in still water, but they aren't doing bad, either.


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## SomeCanuck

For curiosity's sake, how do you manage the floaters when you're doing water changes? I've only ever had duckweed in my 8g but I'm upgrading to a 20g and wanted to try frogbit or RRF since I've got more room now, but I'm worried that I'll just end up hurting them with weekly water changes and that the roots will suffer because of it.


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## somewhatshocked

Water changes aren't going to hurt floating plants. Their roots aren't super-delicate.

There's nothing special you have to do when swapping water. I drain out about 15%, add the same amount of remineralized water back.

Don't over-think it or make tank goodies more complicated than they need to be. 



SomeCanuck said:


> For curiosity's sake, how do you manage the floaters when you're doing water changes? I've only ever had duckweed in my 8g but I'm upgrading to a 20g and wanted to try frogbit or RRF since I've got more room now, but I'm worried that I'll just end up hurting them with weekly water changes and that the roots will suffer because of it.


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## SomeCanuck

Sweet! Thanks!


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## somewhatshocked

A berried mama just past the juvie stage, about half the size of a fully grown adult:










A mixture of juvies:










Finally have shell thickness where I want it on these CBS and they're breeding really well:


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## somewhatshocked

The tank:










Om Nom Nom time:


































My latest breeding project has been to develop black legs:


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## shrimpnmoss

sexy cbs flower....so pretty...


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## Green_Flash

Nice, I love the overhead shot!


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## somewhatshocked

Had to add some Amanos today:


















The first one is super-blue but appears cloudy in the image (it's not).


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## sayurasem

Can we have side view pictures please


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## somewhatshocked

Huh?

There are tons of photos throughout the thread.



sayurasem said:


> Can we have side view pictures please


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## Bananariot

Where did you manage to buy the Flowerhead SSS? Or did they all come from breeding SSS for you?


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## somewhatshocked

They're from my own stock of various shrimp. Have bunches more but guess I need to start photographing them more.


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## somewhatshocked

Just cleaned out more than NINETY shrimp from the canister filter. It's official - nothing works. Not sponges, not stainless mesh, not pantyhose. Nothing. Works. 

On the plus - I have more shrimp than I thought.


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## MABJ

somewhatshocked said:


> Just cleaned out more than NINETY shrimp from the canister filter. It's official - nothing works. Not sponges, not stainless mesh, not pantyhose. Nothing. Works.
> 
> On the plus - I have more shrimp than I thought.


That's very confusing... How would something that completely covers the intake not keep them out?

I haven't gotten any in mine yet, but mine is probably better protected behind a giant wall of sponge. (Modified Fluval spec)

How do you think they keep getting in?


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## somewhatshocked

I've tried all kinds of sponges. Fluval Edge, ZooMed, Swiss Tropicals, all kinds of stuff. Guessing there's always a hole large enough for babies to get through. 

Next time, I'm gonna try about a bazillion layers of pantyhose layered with sponge to see what happens.


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## sayurasem

Dang 90? That's crazy.

I never had any problem with my fluval edge sponge though.


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## Kai808

Do you clean your filter often? I noticed a couple of shrimp in the output spray bar the last time I turned the filter off for maintenance. Maybe that's how they are getting in? 

The tank is looking good! I'm always a little jealous of people who can grow mm. :red_mouth


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## somewhatshocked

I only open my Eheims up about once every 3-4 months to check things out and make sure there's nothing up with the impeller and such. They're probably only cleaned once a year.

Definitely not entering via the spray bar. 

Now I'm gonna try sponge layered with a super-fine mesh media bag and filter floss layered with sponge. It's gonna require me to clean the pre-filter more than once per week but maybe this will work. 

Typically, sponges keep things down to just 2-3 shrimp in a filter here and there. Not sure what it is with this tank, though. Must be something extra special in the filter that they want to get at.


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## somewhatshocked

Forgot to respond to this:



Kai808 said:


> The tank is looking good! I'm always a little jealous of people who can grow mm. :red_mouth


Ha - thanks! It's not so much growing, as it is... just creeping. It's taken a year to start really looking like it's about to take off. 

The next time I go low-tech with Marsilea minuta, I'm gonna let it grow in for a few months prior to flooding.


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## somewhatshocked

Guess I'm never getting rid of the hair algae, no matter how high this fixture is suspended above the tank:










All the PFR juvies lately are super-red, like this one:










Moss has finally pushed this Anubias nana 'petite' out of the way:










Time to move it to my new 45-F.

Itching to add a black background to the tank. Think I may do so sometime this week. Probably gonna have to do it in sections, though, so I'm hopeful it doesn't look too janky.


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## somewhatshocked

For real - the hair algae is never going away. Removed what I thought was 100% of it and it's back with a vengeance. 

I've been eradicating it for at least two-thirds of my life so this is going to be a fun battle.


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## somewhatshocked

Now on the fourth and fifth generations of PFRs in this low pH tank.

With previous generations, they weren't fully coloring up until well into adulthood. Now? They're quite red in the early juvenile stage:


































Have finally decided to add a black background to the tank for a more dramatic effect - and to match the tanks on the opposite end of the room. Will also likely (finally) ditch Bacopa australis to be replaced by C. wendtii.

Still spend probably an hour a day watching this tank when I'm home. Usually sit down on a bench in front of it while listening to music. Huge part of my life.


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## somewhatshocked

I keep Frogbit alive in this tank with tons of surface agitation by sticking it behind the spray bar:










It sends out runners that hang on and do really well in the high flow as long as the mother plant is anchored in the back.

This old Ramshorn is more than two years old:










Didn't add this moss to the tank, so I have no idea how it exploded so quickly:










Gonna have to remove it ASAP.


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## MABJ

AWESOME snail. I love it lol. How have you kept track of it?


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## somewhatshocked

I track all my tanks with a Google spreadsheet. 

This snail was moved over from a 40B where I breed random Ramshorns.


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## somewhatshocked

Beginning of an Om Nom Nom/Complete Veggie feeding frenzy:


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## Cyanider

Love the tank and the setup! I had a couple questions, though. I considering getting that same stand for my 12g long. The target link is dead, so I was looking for something similar. Is the stand you have made of particle board? Also, how sturdy is it? Do you have a full shot of it from the front? 

I found these two on target's website:
http://www.target.com/p/threshold-6-cube-horizontal-espresso/-/A-14161912

http://www.target.com/p/closetmaid-6-cube-organizer-black-ash/-/A-13217323#prodSlot=medium_1_2&term=6+cube+organizer

Which one is closest to the one you have? Just want to make sure it'll be sturdy enough for the tank!


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## somewhatshocked

Not currently at a computer so I can't check your links. But I bought the stand more than a year ago and it's holding up well.

You can find just about all the information you need here in the thread - including photos.


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## Cyanider

somewhatshocked said:


> Not currently at a computer so I can't check your links. But I bought the stand more than a year ago and it's holding up well.
> 
> You can find just about all the information you need here in the thread - including photos.


Yeah, I saw the few posts with the full tank shots. Though it didn't show the bottom of the cabinet. One of the links I just sent you had little legs on the bottom, and it seems like the better of the two. Since the link you posted forever ago is now dead, I'm wondering if this is the 'new' target equivalent of what you have.


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## somewhatshocked

Just took a look at your links. It's the $80 option, as is mentioned a few times here in the thread.

There are much better options for stands. This just happens to be what I went with out of convenience.


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## Cyanider

That's what I figured, it's just that the link you posted was dead so I just wanted to make sure. 

I've been trying to find a decent stand, but I also love the fact that this makes good storage as well. I'll definitely look for something with the right dimensions, or else I'll get this one. Thanks!


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## GreenBliss

How do you deal with your hair algae? It's taking over my moss in the 18g and I have a small portion in the 7.5g on the moss. Hair algae nowhere, but the moss. Every time I remove it, the moss comes off the driftwood. :icon_sad:

So much different info on what to do with this algae. I tried two day blackout in the 18g and the algae kept growing. The Red Cherries seem to love it.


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## somewhatshocked

GreenBliss: Scissors and lots of patience. That's the only way to deal with it.

Though, I don't believe I'll ever fully eradicate it from this tank. My Amanos keep it mostly in check and I've kind of given up on it.


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## somewhatshocked

Appears the elderly Ramshorn has an affinity for carrot:


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## somewhatshocked

One of my Nerites - have had this one nearly three years - decided it was time to die today, I guess.

Found it at the bottom of the shelving unit. Put it in a cup of tank water to see what happens but I'm pretty sure it's done.

Time for some new Nerites!


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## somewhatshocked

Spoke too soon! Snail is alive and back in the tank.

Dang Nerites.


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## assasin6547

^Oops - that means I may have tossed a living one!


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## somewhatshocked

That's why I always toss them in a cup filled with water. Have in the past had them stay in the same spot for up to two weeks only to suddenly move around.


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## somewhatshocked

Feeding time is always fun. Here are some random photos.


















This 2.5"+ Amano stole not one but two pieces of Complete Veggie:










Check out this berried PFR that lost all the color in her midsection:


















And this one:


















They only seem to lose color in this particular tank. Must be related to hardness and acidity? 

Nine berried females in a tank with a pH of 6.4 and GH of 5. They breed faster in this tank than any other I've got. Though, they don't get as large (but live longer) as they do in harder water tanks.

You can see in this photo that the fully adult PFRs are smaller than fully adult PBLs:










Not sure what this tank has in store for it but I feel a change coming.


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## somewhatshocked

I'm home alone on a Friday night. That's basically bad news bears.

Why? Because I'm tempted to buy up enough Crypt parva and Anubias nana 'petite' to redo the entire tank. Not good, folks. Not good. Let's hope I can hold back.


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## somewhatshocked

Turns out being home alone only led to buying another AquaTop cube (this time a 25cm tank).

But I'm still thinking about redoing this tank a bit. Or making it a Neo-only tank.


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## MsNemoShrimp

Jake what plant is that towards the bottom of your picture?










I have seen similar plants in most breeding tanks from Asia, is this it?


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## somewhatshocked

Crypt parva - the coolest Crypt ever. It's my favorite carpeting plant for shrimp tanks. 

Love it so much that I try to use it in every tank I have.


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## MsNemoShrimp

somewhatshocked said:


> Crypt parva - the coolest Crypt ever. It's my favorite carpeting plant for shrimp tanks.
> 
> Love it so much that I try to use it in every tank I have.


Thank you Jake. After looking through the videos again the plant I am looking at is a little different. 



 (0:54 @ left hand corner) of that video. Could that be a crypt?


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## somewhatshocked

Can't really tell for sure which plant you mean based on the video. Could you pull a screenshot of it or find a different google image?


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## walluby

You might like to look at stauroygne repens.
It is similar with fatter leaves.


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## somewhatshocked

S. repens is a great plant. Grows really fast emersed and transitions well to being submerged. Great as a carpet in larger tanks and works super-well in shrimp tanks.


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## MsNemoShrimp

The plant is right in the focus at 0:54. If you just pause the video at 0:54 it is in focus. Far left hand side of the screen, can't miss it  For sure it's not stauroygne repens


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## vvDO

MsNemoShrimp said:


> The plant is right in the focus at 0:54. If you just pause the video at 0:54 it is in focus. Far left hand side of the screen, can't miss it  For sure it's not stauroygne repens


Looks like Syngonanthus sp. 'Belem'


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## somewhatshocked

CBS haven't been breeding this year, despite parameters I would consider ideal: 










But the PFRs sure are popping out babies:










Probably moving the CBS to my 45-F to see if they start to breed.


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## MsNemoShrimp

Absolutely stunning looking CBSes


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## somewhatshocked

They would be stunning if they would breed like they did last year!


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## somewhatshocked

This poor Amano (she's more than two inches in length) is so berried she can barely move:










But that didn't stop her from stealing a giant chunk of Complete Veggie from the CBS & PFRs.


























HUNGRY HUNGRY HIPPO!

What a thief.


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## vvDO

I have an amano about the same size packed with eggs and she too is a thief. Takes whole wafers off to her hidey hole.


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## somewhatshocked

Of course there'd be some gross junk growing on the pre-filter sponge:


















Time for a peroxide dip!


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## somewhatshocked

Om Nom Nom time!


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## kbenson

somewhatshocked said:


> This poor Amano (she's more than two inches in length) is so berried she can barely move:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But that didn't stop her from stealing a giant chunk of Complete Veggie from the CBS & PFRs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> HUNGRY HUNGRY HIPPO!
> 
> What a thief.


How did you get an Amano to breed in freshwater? or did you use another tank? I heard it was impossible for them to breed in anything but "brackish" water??


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## kbenson

somewhatshocked said:


> Feeding time is always fun. Here are some random photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This 2.5"+ Amano stole not one but two pieces of Complete Veggie:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Check out this berried PFR that lost all the color in her midsection:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this one:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They only seem to lose color in this particular tank. Must be related to hardness and acidity?
> 
> Nine berried females in a tank with a pH of 6.4 and GH of 5. They breed faster in this tank than any other I've got. Though, they don't get as large (but live longer) as they do in harder water tanks.
> 
> You can see in this photo that the fully adult PFRs are smaller than fully adult PBLs:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure what this tank has in store for it but I feel a change coming.


The reason could be that even though these can adapt and live in soft to hard and acidic to alkaline waters. Cherrys breed best in medium to hard water and slightly acidic water!! I had them in neutral PH for months with a few maybe that became berried after I added them to my CRS tank they cant stop!! I have not noticed the color issue and the only difference in tank water parameteres is I have a bit of higher GH just because I think a medium GH of 7-8 would help them molt better/less deaths. So far I haven't had any issues? Try raising the GH by like 2 and see if it gets better?


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## somewhatshocked

Amano Shrimp readily breed in freshwater. Offspring just cannot survive without proper conditions.

Neo shrimp will breed in anything - not just hard water. If you actually read through the journal, you'll see that these PFRs have been slowly adapted to live in the tank with sensitive, high-grade Crystals, so I won't be altering the hardness. I keep plenty of Neos in other tanks with different parameters, as well.


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## kbenson

somewhatshocked said:


> Amano Shrimp readily breed in freshwater. Offspring just cannot survive without proper conditions.
> 
> Neo shrimp will breed in anything - not just hard water. If you actually read through the journal, you'll see that these PFRs have been slowly adapted to live in the tank with sensitive, high-grade Crystals, so I won't be altering the hardness. I keep plenty of Neos in other tanks with different parameters, as well.


Ok I was just making a innocent suggestion, I never stated they only breed in HARD cuz I dont even keep my water hard? I simply made a suggestion that the lack of color could be due to exactly what you said however once I changed the GH I didnt notice color issues anymore?? I started my tank at 5 and slowly with water changes over a cpl months raised the GH because I Unfortunately did notice molting issues with the cherrys especially the really red painted fires like you have & 1 had a successful molt only part of the poor things tail came with it so I figured that the waters GH may need to be higher & after some research I learned that Crystal red shrimp actually do better in slightly harder/moderate waters also. I did read the entire thing I simply said that was the only difference in our tanks and since my GH has gone up I haven't noticed any problems but like they say if it aint broke? So I dont blame you for not wanting to mess with your system that is working for you already! :red_mouth
Or MAYBE it just happens like normal woman who get pregnant there looks go? lol so it could be the same lack of color in the belly area it seems "shrimp stretch marks" lol 
In my opinion, the true Amano shrimp, _Caridina multidentata_ was previously known to aquarists as _Caridina japonica_ but was renamed _Caridina multidentata_ following a study in 2006. I personally have only seen a amano carrying eggs 1 time &has an obligate requirement for marine water for larval development. It could be possible that very few larvae (about 1 in 100,000) could develop in a freshwater tank, if the water contained high levels of calcium, magnesium or chloride ions. But continuous rearing of Caridina multidentata in freshwater is impossible. that very few larvae (about 1 in 100,000) could develop in a freshwater tank, if the water contained high levels of calcium, magnesium or chloride ions. But continuous rearing of Caridina multidentata in freshwater is impossible. 

However, There are some freshwater shrimp that are able to breed in freshwater and look similar to C. multidentata. Maybe the shrimp in question belongs to one of these three species. If a shrimp population is breeding well in freshwater the larval biology and development will be somewhat different to that described in C. multidentata and this will belong to a distinct species. There were a lot of reports in UK and Germany, I am sure they can adapt like any other species considering there mainly kept in freshwater they may have adapted there are a lot of mixed views. I guess you got lucky!!:thumbsup::thumbsup: NICE fire reds!


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## somewhatshocked

I'm confident in their identification based on my own expertise and that of Rachel O'Leary (msjinkzd, my source). 

Like I originally said - they will _breed_ readily in freshwater. The young won't survive. Just like Stiphodon atropurpureus will occasionally try breeding in freshwater but the young don't survive.


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## kbenson

somewhatshocked said:


> I'm confident in their identification based on my own expertise and that of Rachel O'Leary (msjinkzd, my source).
> 
> Like I originally said - they will _breed_ readily in freshwater. The young won't survive. Just like Stiphodon atropurpureus will occasionally try breeding in freshwater but the young don't survive.


So do you remove them? I was wondering since they seem to be hard to breed your very very lucky to get them to breed like this maybe if you had a nursery brackish tank? I heard you have a little bit of time to move them from there larval stage to a tank where there actually needing brackish? I am not doubting you however there are many many different species in fact rumors are swirling that they have came from the UK there is only 1 tell tail difference in there look and its the part between the nose? IDK not quit my specialty there way to confusing to breed for me ya know? I just thought if your getting them to become berried like this in freshwater then that is awesome & most who do move them to brackish when berried others feel its too stressful so they wait and collect the eggs however I doubt you could find any lol I am surprised you haven't heard that often? If you can or do collect any eggs just in case you do not know you can put them in a brine shrimp hatchery??


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## somewhatshocked

I usually keep Amanos in tanks with smaller fish, so the offspring get quickly devoured. In a tank like this, they'll just end up being food for the 100 or so shrimp in the tank. Have been thinking about acclimating a few Endlers to the tank to help with the cleanup but don't want to lose any of the other critters in the tank.

There's actually a thread in the Shrimp section of a guy (in the UK, I believe) who has successfully raised a few broods of Amanos. Takes several different phases of salinity and all kinds of green water. It's a super-interesting read.

UPDATE: Actually found two threads by him. Here and here.


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## somewhatshocked

Complete Veggie feeding time!


































This Nerite has been outside the tank so many times I can't believe it's still alive:


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## somewhatshocked

It's official. Have decided to rescape this beast.

Possibilities are endless, so it's going to take me a while to figure out what I want to do. 

Part of me wants to turn this into tank for just Neos or Tigers. Part of me wants to redo it with Aquasoil and house some of my Taiwan Bee offspring. 

If I go with Bees, I'll remove all hardscape and only put Anubias and Crypts back into the tank with bits of moss. Would ideally find some great pieces of Malaysian Driftwood or Manzanita but don't think I have the budget for it at the moment. Not exactly the look I'd prefer for the tank right now but my opinion may change tomorrow.

If I go the Neo or Tiger route, I'll likely leave the Azoo Plant Grower Bed in the tank, add additional rock, leave the Crypt parva, add pressurized CO2 and focus on growing the Marsilea minuta already planted. Dosing ferts would be easier with Neos and I already have everything I'd need.

Just need to think about things for a while. Here's hoping I figure it out soon!


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## rocksmom

I vote bees and use the parva and mm for your tiny cubes.


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## somewhatshocked

May end up going that route. Just have to give the scape a bit more thought and do more planning in terms of the aesthetic.

Tank's in a highly visible area, so I have to make sure I've got a decent hardscape at all costs.


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## rocksmom

I have a bunch of smaller manzanita that might work for you. We could do a trade for some food or supplements or something.


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## somewhatshocked

I'm gonna spend a week or two toying with different scape ideas.

Turns out, there are a few berried mamas and a bunch of tiny baby shrimp everywhere, so I'm going to have to wait until they're large enough to see so I can do anything with the tank. 

I KNEW I should have netted those ladies out last week during water change. Ha. Serves me right.


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## somewhatshocked

Here's why I'm close to starting this tank over:










Random moss keeps sprouting up from seemingly nowhere and takes over the tank in a matter of days. Once the moss arrives, hair algae always follows closely behind.

PFR juvies have really started to color up:










Finally! A berried CBS - barely visible in the center of the image:










The white stuff at the bottom of the image is what remains of my old Ramshorn's shell. It died a few weeks ago and the critters in tank have slowly broken its shell down.

Another super-pregnant giant Amano:










And a flowerhead CRS that will hopefully produce some CBS offspring:










Slowly picking up pieces of cheap driftwood as I can to try to have some stuff to work with when it comes to rescaping. Ordered a couple pieces from Alpha Pro Breeders that should arrive by the end of the week. Along with that German shrimp magazine, of course. Here's hoping its not in atrociously translated English with an extreme usage of "shrimps" instead of "shrimp" on every page.


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## somewhatshocked

Aaaand there's another berried Amano.

They need to quit it.


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## tattooedfool83

That's how my 75 gallon is. It seems the amanos are constantly berried, to bad the babies wouldn't survive I'd have hundreds and hundreds by now.


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## somewhatshocked

Picked up a couple great pieces of driftwood this week.

Piece one:


















Piece two:


























They've got great potential.

Gonna pick up a couple more and then see what I can rig up.


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## I<3<*))))><

Wow, really nice wood, espeically digging that 2nd piece. You find them locally?
Wish I could fins stuff that nice around me.


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## somewhatshocked

Ordered it, as mentioned just a couple posts ago.

You're at the mercy of the retailer when you buy online but driftwood is almost always easy to alter into something that looks great.



I<3<*))))>< said:


> Wow, really nice wood, espeically digging that 2nd piece. You find them locally?
> Wish I could fins stuff that nice around me.


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## somewhatshocked

For those who asked…

While the magazine doesn't really include information that would be new to anyone with a bit of shrimp experience under their belt, it's tons of fun to read about various breeders in Europe getting into the hobby and how they've progressed. It's just straight email interviews with breeders in both German and English in the first edition. Loved it so much I read it cover to cover as soon as it arrived.










It's not glossy (meaning the quality of the photos suffer slightly when printed on paper with a bit of bleed through) but is definitely worth the $15 price tag because there are no advertisements. I'll probably buy the second edition in September. Looking forward to it.


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## somewhatshocked

Excitement! Just discovered a second berried CBS.


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## somewhatshocked

It's not a dumb idea to move all these shrimp - the CBS, anyway - over to my 45-F in order to restart, right?

It's gonna be a task and a half trying to get these PFRs to adjust to normal Neo params in my 5.5gal. 

Have tons of driftwood, 20 liters of Amazonia (only need less than half that), lots of C. parva , Anubias. Need to start planning so I can get this thing converted to Taiwan Bees by winter.


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## somewhatshocked

Feeding time:










Babies everywhere:










Another dang Amano is loaded down with eggs:


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## londonloco

Hey Jake. I started out my morning googling rimless tanks. I literally just spent the entire day reading all your threads. Great tanks. Outstanding scapes. Beautiful shrimp. 

I have a question about the way you hung the dble bright on this tank. I saw you bought two zoo med light stands. I think I see you use small black chain to hang the light fixture from the light to the stand, but not clear how you did this. Can you elaborate on any modifications you made to them? 

Thanks!


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## somewhatshocked

Thanks! Though, this tank's scape never really suited me. In the planning stages to redo it.

Yep, the light fixture is hung from the hooks with a couple pieces of black chain. Just slid the legs of the LED through the links of the chain and then suspended them with S hooks. No modification at all.


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## sacme

I've been quietly following your for months  You're tanks are all incredible, if I'm ever interested in shrimp keeping I know who to come to. Keep it up Jake!


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## londonloco

Perfect, and thank you for that fast reply. I have a Sat LED + I can easily do that with 

I think I've decided to redo my rack with two or three 10in Aquatop cubes, and one or two Mr. Aqua 12 g longs. Once that is complete, I'm breaking down two 75g and a 125g and going with a rimless 75g. Prob take a year, but that's fine, the build is the most fun! 

When my DH asks "why?" I won't explain to him about our well water driving me nuts, the fact I have to go RO water for my tanks. Nah, I'll just tell him to check out your threads. He'll understand once he sees them. So it's all your fault, but TYVM....I'm getting very excited about my redo's :bounce::bounce::bounce:


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## somewhatshocked

You'll love the AquaTop tanks. Probably my absolute favorites.


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## somewhatshocked

Just spent 10,000 hours pulling all the moss and hair algae out of the tank:










Who knew I had so many Anubias?

Looks so much better cleaned up. But I am still excited to redo this whole rig.

Also did the maybe-every-six-months cleaning of the filter and found a handful of PFRs. Again. 

Netted out about two dozen PFRs from the tank and am dripping them into my 5.5gal as we speak. Think I'll move the remainder of the PFRs later this week when I move the CBS to my 45-F.

Mostly just excited about finally adding a black background.


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## londonloco

somewhatshocked said:


> You'll love the AquaTop tanks. Probably my absolute favorites.


Thanks Jake, ordered them last night, they were shipped today, but no tracking number? How long did they take to get to you? I decided to go with their 36 LED clip on light, read some good reviews, none bad so far. 

You 12g long is inspiration for when I get to purchasing mine!


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## somewhatshocked

You'll have them within a week. Typically takes a day or two to get them packed and get the tracking # to you.


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## londonloco

Thanks!


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## TankYouVeryMuch

Probably a stupid question but were the pfr in the filter still alive?


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## somewhatshocked

Yes, they were still alive.

Routinely have to remove them from this filter, as babies somehow find their way through the sponge. Would be easier to replace the sponge with a different guard but I haven't gotten around to it yet.



TankYouVeryMuch said:


> Probably a stupid question but were the pfr in the filter still alive?


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## somewhatshocked

Finally received some new driftwood:


















































































Even more options.


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## somewhatshocked

Just moved about a million CBS and a few CRS - along with some Amanos - over to the 45-F. Have probably a dozen baby CBS to net out this week and have to remove 20-30 young PFRs. 

Then it's off to the races with rescaping this tank.

FINALLY!


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## somewhatshocked

Of COURSE I'd discover four Amano Shrimp I didn't know I had (I thought a few of them had died of old age) after removing most of the shrimp and most of the moss. Funny how those little buggers hide out.


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## sacme

Quick question, how do you go about acclimating your shrimp?


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## somewhatshocked

By slowly dripping them into the new tank. If parameters are close, it usually only takes an hour or so. If they're off? I'll drip for 4-6 hours if necessary.


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## sevenportsOFFICE

somewhatshocked said:


> By slowly dripping them into the new tank. If parameters are close, it usually only takes an hour or so. If they're off? I'll drip for 4-6 hours if necessary.


Good man.


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## sacme

somewhatshocked said:


> By slowly dripping them into the new tank. If parameters are close, it usually only takes an hour or so. If they're off? I'll drip for 4-6 hours if necessary.


Thanks, slowly learning more about the little critters


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## somewhatshocked

Four hours later, 99% of the shrimp are removed, most of the plants removed, yadda yadda:










Actually put the plants back in the tank after all the shrimp were removed because I need a place to keep them until the rescape takes place. Counted more than 50 Anubias. Insanity.


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## londonloco

Jake, can you do me a big favor? I need a up close and personal pic of how you suspended the light from the hanging tree. I hate to beat this to death, but I'm having a problem visualizing it.


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## somewhatshocked

It's already been torn down in preparation for the re-scape. but there are any number of ways to suspend it. If you look through this journal (posts 50-60 or so), you should see photos. 

Just attach a couple segments of chain to an S-hook.


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## somewhatshocked

I should not be allowed to spend so much time on this forum. Because every time I check out a tank journal, I want to try something different with this tank.

The latest idea involves picking up some DIY mesh covering from Bulk Reef Supply and using this tank to house a school of 15-20 of my Corydoras habrosus. I'd use Aquasoil, Anubias, Crypts, driftwood and keep it simple. 

Guess we'll see what sort of wild ideas I come up with over the next couple weeks.


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## Bananariot

You should sell me some of those SSS cbs ;D since you netted them out already


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## somewhatshocked

I wish I had enough to sell! Maybe some day.

I've got a bunch of berried females, so maybe next year I'll be able to sell some.


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## somewhatshocked

Now that I'm all moved, I'm getting ready to set this tank back up. Rather than stone, I'll be using large pieces of driftwood, ADA Aqua Soil and such.

Adding a black background today and getting things leveled. Hope to have photos of the hardscape soon.


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## Psiorian

somewhatshocked said:


> Finally Dremeled out the back of the shelving unit and placed the stands:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You like that blur? Someone had a bit too much espresso.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see, it's going to hold up nicely. Just need to cut the chain to size and we'll be good to go. That's as high as the arms extend but I'm sure I'll be fine on flexibility.
> 
> There's non-slip grippy stuff beneath each stand and each of those storage baskets is filled with heavy crap like fertilizer and cans of paint.
> 
> Also put some grippy shelf liner beneath the tank.
> 
> Received my final bag of Azoo Plant Grower Bed and a bit of Marsilea minuta today so hope to get a rough scape going tonight. Anubias, C. parva, Marsilea minuta, bit of fissidens or other moss behind the rocks. May hold out to see if Gordon gets Bacopa australis in this weekend before settling on a scape.
> 
> If anyone has thoughts on plants, feel free to chime in. Not settled on these and am open.
> 
> Thanks for reading,
> 
> Jake


I just had a quick question. Based on this picture it looks like you used those zoomed light stands? 

When you said dremel out the shelves and placed the stands... Where did you put the base of the stand? Under the tank on the shelf?


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## somewhatshocked

Yep, if you read the journal, you'll see they're ZooMed. 

This: _"There's non-slip grippy stuff beneath each stand and each of those storage baskets is filled with heavy crap like fertilizer and cans of paint."_

They're placed on shelves, held in place by non-slip shelf liner, weighted down by the storage baskets. If you look at the very post post in the journal, you'll see a reversed example.


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## Psiorian

somewhatshocked said:


> Yep, if you read the journal, you'll see they're ZooMed.
> 
> This: _"There's non-slip grippy stuff beneath each stand and each of those storage baskets is filled with heavy crap like fertilizer and cans of paint."_
> 
> They're placed on shelves, held in place by non-slip shelf liner, weighted down by the storage baskets. If you look at the very post post in the journal, you'll see a reversed example.


Oh awesome jake thanks for the info! I totally missed the first post and was wondering what the dremel was for haha.


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## somewhatshocked

Honestly, it was nice for me to go back to the beginning of this tank. Motivated me a bit more to get the new setup finalized!



Psiorian said:


> Oh awesome jake thanks for the info! I totally missed the first post and was wondering what the dremel was for haha.


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## kirk

How's that twelve coming along?


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## somewhatshocked

kirk: Slowly! To say the least.

I've moved around a bunch and the tank is currently sitting dry in my bedroom. I have a scape I like sketched out and have been making final plans for the kind of shrimp I want.

Now that the worst of winter weather is over, I need to set things in motion.


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## somewhatshocked

Life ended up getting in the way but I started the ball rolling today.

New setup soon!


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## somewhatshocked

It's a year later and I'm still working on the new build. Along the way I've picked up two more of these tanks, including a higher clarity version.

My new place should be finished soon and I'll be moving all of the tanks in. Can't wait to start updating this again!


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## Discusluv

somewhatshocked said:


> TDS was 160 this morning. Another big water change and it looks like things are stabilizing just under 150. I think I've hit the sweet spot.
> 
> Also... I really had forgotten just how great Purigen is. The difference in water clarity is borderline obscene. I should wait to add it to every tank I start instead of doing so really early. Allows me to see the difference. Best $6 ever spent.


 This is interesting. Do you use the TDS meter to tell you when water change is necessary?


Need to get some Purigen. 



The motorcycle accident! You are very lucky you weren't seriously injured. Idiot drunk drivers :icon_mad:


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## somewhatshocked

Man, so much has happened through the years. Had nearly forgotten about the accident. Dozens of tanks later, several moves around the country, loss of the significant other, career changes. Life happens, I guess!

I don't specifically use TDS meters to tell me when changes are necessary. But they're handy for occasionally dunking in a tank to see if there's a reason to be concerned. Generally, it helps me understand when I should test for something else or if something's outta whack.

Primarily, I keep them on-hand for water mixing. Once I know the TDS range for the parameters I like with the Salty Shrimp and other remineralizer products I use, it helps gauge where I am. 

I doubt you'll find Purigen helpful for your 30gal tank, as it'll remove tannins and all that. But it's nice to have a package or two laying around for those times when you want polished water.


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## Discusluv

somewhatshocked said:


> Mission accomplished! She's berried!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can't wait til the CRS momma pops out some CBS x CRS babies.


Yeah!! She is a beauty!

Finished. Excellent.
Journals like this are chronicle of the past for you. I experienced it in _real time_ all over again.


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