# Which light / fixture will provide the best shimmer effect ?



## Crazy Bunny (Jul 23, 2014)

Just like what the title said.


Let me know


Bunny


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## jrygel (Jan 29, 2014)

More concentrated light hanging a little above the water will produce the strongest shimmer effect. Pendant lights like Kessils or Halos are good for this.

-Justin


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## DaveK (Jul 10, 2010)

I agree the the post made by @jrygel. You want point sources of light for the best shimmer. 

However, do not base you lighting selection entirely upon that. There are other considerations. For example the Kessils would give you goos shimmering light, but they are also very expensive. Metal halides are also good for shimmer, but unless you have a very large tank you may have too much light, and they put out a lot of heat and cost a lot to run.

So I'd say choose the light on what is best for the plants and fish, and then select for shimmer.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Crazy Bunny said:


> Just like what the title said.
> 
> 
> Let me know
> ...


almost all LED's produce shimmer..Want more shimmer? Increase surface turbulence..


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## Crazy Bunny (Jul 23, 2014)

jeffkrol said:


> almost all LED's produce shimmer..Want more shimmer? Increase surface turbulence..




I hope you are joking... ;-)
because I am using 2 LED light with surface skimmer on different tanks but no shimmer AT ALL !!


Bunny


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Crazy Bunny said:


> I hope you are joking... ;-)
> because I am using 2 LED light with surface skimmer on different tanks but no shimmer AT ALL !!
> 
> 
> Bunny


A skimmer doesn't create what @jeffkrol is telling you. He stated turbulence, which would be a rough agitation of the water surface like what a power head would provide.


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## DaveK (Jul 10, 2010)

jeffkrol said:


> almost all LED's produce shimmer..Want more shimmer? Increase surface turbulence..





Crazy Bunny said:


> I hope you are joking... ;-)
> because I am using 2 LED light with surface skimmer on different tanks but no shimmer AT ALL !!
> 
> Bunny


This is a case where it depends upon the kind of LED lighting your using. 

A point source, such as a kessil pendant will tend to give you a lot of shimmer. 

A strip light, such as a Finnex, will tend to give you very little shimmer. 

This happens because the Kessil uses comparatively few high power LEDS, verses the Finnex using a large number of small LEDs.

I don't think one is necessarily better for a FW planted tank, just different.


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

Yep, if the surface is flat, it can not shimmer.
The shimmer is caused by water forming lense shapes that directs light.
So getting shimmer while using CO2 is going to require a larger injection.


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## micheljq (Oct 24, 2012)

Hello, Grobeam 600 provide shimmer, they are made of 5 leds with good space between them. I have one, lot of shimmer, but it's not the reason why i did buy one.

Finnex will not provide shimmer or very low shimmer, lots of small leds close to each other. I have one Finnex Ray 2 DS and it does not provide a lot of shimmer, if any at all.

Michel.


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## Crazy Bunny (Jul 23, 2014)

Nordic said:


> Yep, if the surface is flat, it can not shimmer.
> The shimmer is caused by water forming lense shapes that directs light.
> So getting shimmer while using CO2 is going to require a larger injection.




Ok. Am confused. Why does shimmer will need to boost more CO2 ?
because of the surface algatation bring more o2 in the tank ?


J


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Crazy Bunny said:


> Ok. Am confused. Why does shimmer will need to boost more CO2 ?
> because of the surface algatation bring more o2 in the tank ?


I think they assume CO2 diffusion losses due to more agitation, though generally this should not occur unless the CO2(g) concentration is higher than ambient air. 
Not sure it works as they assume. Much of the CO2 is not in gas form and even if so, you would not go beyond "ambient" concentrations, currently at a high of 400ppm-ish
OK a bit more complicated, but still turbulence may not be enough to free the CO2..


> Molecule Charge
> 
> One reason a gas like carbon dioxide dissolves in water is its charge. CO2 is made up of one carbon atom and two oxygen atoms. The atoms share electrons, but they don’t share those electrons evenly -- the oxygen ends of a CO2 molecule have a slight negative charge. Water molecules are attracted to these polar areas, allowing CO2 to dissolve in water.
> The Dissolution Process
> ...


Generally speaking higher aeration should fix more CO2 into the water than out, much like it adds o2, though CO2 is "harder" to incorporate..


> On the other hand, no relation between the two gases was observed in Riera Major, where turbulence was higher. In this stream, the concentration of dissolved oxygen was greatly affected by reaeration, but changes in carbon dioxide showed a clear daily pattern. The lack of agreement between the diurnal variation of the two gases observed in this stream may be explained by the difference in solubility, which led to marked differences in the exchange coefficient rate when turbulence is high.


since I can't access the whole paper I need to guess.. 
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0043135497003308
This explains some stuff in natural systems.. but beyond my pay grade or attention span.. 
http://tubc.aslo.net/lo/toc/vol_55/issue_4/1723.pdf


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## dukydaf (Dec 27, 2004)

jeffkrol said:


> ... should not occur unless the CO2(g) concentration is higher than ambient air.
> Not sure it works as they assume. Much of the CO2 is not in gas form and even if so, you would not go beyond "ambient" concentrations, currently at a high of 400ppm-ish
> ...
> Generally speaking higher aeration should fix more CO2 into the water than out, much like it adds o2, though CO2 is "harder" to incorporate..


Sorry, but that is wrong. Things are a bit more complicated than that. There have been threads with this discussion since APD time, they are out there so I will not go into detail. The subject is old enough that it is not assumption but science by now..Henry's law,( maybe here RE: Carbon Dioxide Concentrations in Water ). Bottom line, the concentration of CO2 in water at equilibrium would be around 0.55-2ppm. CO2 from water is lost by water surface movement. Don't believe ? Try ! Put 2 buckets with the water, test pH, inject a good amount of CO2 into it to get a 1pH drop. Add a pump to create heavy surface movement in one of them. Measure pH in 30 min and compare, a day after ... I see this every night in my aquarium 

So yes Crazy Bunny, higher shimmer = more surface ripples= higher loss of CO2, more O2 for fish

Look for lights that have the leds concentrated in spots not as a band and you are good to go.


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## payluder (Feb 3, 2016)

jrygel said:


> More concentrated light hanging a little above the water will produce the strongest shimmer effect. Pendant lights like Kessils or Halos are good for this.
> 
> -Justin




I had the Halo pendant and even with very little surface movement I still get a lot of shimmer. If you don't want to go pendant I recommend the ARCHAEA ULTRA-GRO strip light. This light has shimmer effect maybe due to the big led they use and the placement is far apart. Its medium light and makes my plants pearl like crazy. You know I recently got a small 1.5gallon I also got their small version ARCHAEA ULTRA-GRO with just three LED and the 1.5 gallon tank also shimmer too almost no surface movement.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

dukydaf said:


> Sorry, but that is wrong. Things are a bit more complicated than that. There have been threads with this discussion since APD time, they are out there so I will not go into detail. The subject is old enough that it is not assumption but science by now..Henry's law,( maybe here RE: Carbon Dioxide Concentrations in Water ). Bottom line, the concentration of CO2 in water at equilibrium would be around 0.55-2ppm. CO2 from water is lost by water surface movement. Don't believe ? Try ! Put 2 buckets with the water, test pH, inject a good amount of CO2 into it to get a 1pH drop. Add a pump to create heavy surface movement in one of them. Measure pH in 30 min and compare, a day after ... I see this every night in my aquarium
> 
> So yes Crazy Bunny, higher shimmer = more surface ripples= higher loss of CO2, more O2 for fish
> 
> Look for lights that have the leds concentrated in spots not as a band and you are good to go.


your right but I added this to cover my but:


> I think they assume CO2 diffusion losses due to more agitation, though generally this should not occur unless the CO2(g) concentration is higher than ambient air.


unfortunately what I meant was to solubility concentration.. your .55-2ppm.
Point is you won't exhaust that "supply" and as used more will go in (atmospheric CO2) though you will lose your injected quantity..well most of it (again whichever establishes the .55-2ppm equilibrium) .
Yes adding the 400ppm was not correct..
In other words you waste what you inject but don't deplete CO2..
going below 2ppm will drive CO2 in w/ agitation..

Sorry didn't really explain it well and did forget a bit about the solubility constant of CO2 in water..

Having still water will do the same thing.. only slower.. 
I prefer to think we are both right.. 
Devoid of life buckets aren't exactly the true picture either..in the end there is still dissolved CO2 just not as much.

Secondary point is you won't really get CO2 limited but just waste your bottle gas as added agitation will drive the CO2 into the tank as it is depleted by your biomass..or deplete any excess.. sort of an equilibrium of its own only in the opposite directions (in a sense .. bottled CO2 leaving ATM CO2 entering. No it doesn't work that way, just a way to look at it).. thus never depleting things
Any CO2 injected above what is utilized is wasted anyways..
Point of CO2 injection is only to make sure it isn't depleted..not that it is in a huge excess..  As a learning point on my part I would need to see where "excess" CO2 is really any more of a benefit than just enough CO2 as to not have it drop below "ambient". Like adding more fertilizer in excess of a plants needs..
I'm sure there is some effect.. but how much?
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...gPjF5v1EgUSg8F2RQ&sig2=g-VRuB8t0oCC_uCEbAHW9Q

all right solved that:


> The amount of CO2 needed in the aquarium for good plant growth is considered to be around 15 milligrams per liter (mg/L), although a range of between 10 to 40 mg/L is considered safe and effective


still w/ CO2 injection, though you will "deplete" some w/ agitation. And plants will deplete some , ect..
But the question somewhat remains.. what is actual and what not..


> If measurements of the pH in the morning before the lights come on, and again in the late afternoon, are drastically different, it is a signal that the plants are using up all available CO2 in the tank.


not depleting CO2 is a no brainier.. but excess??? And how much is lost by surface agitation? 5ppm/hr ect..
so 10-15ppm.. w/ "normal" levels (equil. w/ atm..no removal) being say 2ppm..
to boil down the issue I see": Is exceeding atm. levels really beneficial or is the 15ppm just "insurance" that depletion (local ect.) doesn't occur?" Sorry kind of a side food for thought..

I'll accept conventional wisdom for now.... and assume CO2 isn't at a "limit" at 2ppm..

OK.. it isn't..  (sorry about the rambling post, just one of those days.. )
I will assume terrestrial c3 plants behave about the same as most aquatics










> Likewise, crop photosynthetic rates respond to increasing levels of CO2 but then level off at higher concentrations (around 700 m mol/mol or greater, depending upon species and other factors).


 700ppm ..


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## Albtraum (Dec 27, 2009)

Power head just below the water's surface = best shimmer effect.


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## IUnknown (Feb 5, 2003)

Or your water outlet from the canister filter not below 3" from the top of the water. Watch out for disco effect that comes from LED's with multiple sources of light. Having a couple Halo's makes things more natural looking, like the sun. With some strip led fixtures all the led's makes the point source lights look more like diffused lighting.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Crazy Bunny said:


> I hope you are joking... ;-)
> because I am using 2 LED light with surface skimmer on different tanks but no shimmer AT ALL !!
> 
> 
> Bunny


Using LEDs to Add More Shimmer to Your Aquarium « Ecoxotic LED Aquarium Lights


> Don’t forget, it takes two things to make your water shimmer – a point source light (like LED) and strong surface agitation. The more you can make your water ripple at the surface, the more dramatic the shimmer lines will be in your aquarium.


All LED's are point source lights..
Stunner strips as referenced in the above article:










> Let’s say you have already a compact fluorescent (power compact) or fluorescent (T5, T8 or T12) aquarium light fixture, and you want to add some shimmer lines. Our 8,000K White Stunner LED Strips (#8012 or #8011) will add the most dramatic shimmer effect and can easily be mounted to your light fixture using either the 3M adhesive tape or mounting clips (included).


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## sm1ke (Jun 30, 2016)

In my experience, using a cheap, unbranded, cool white LED strip light, I get a decent shimmer effect because I have an internal filter with a directional outlet that aims slightly towards the water surface. The flow creates a lot of surface ripples, which generates the shimmer effect. Of course, this is a low-quality (low brightness) light source on a standard 20g tall tank. Using a better quality light source, you should get better shimmer. The main thing is using point-source light and creating the surface agitation that leads to ripples (or bigger waves, if that's the shimmer effect you're after).


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## Fissure (Jun 29, 2014)

I would say any kind of led and a decent surface movement will create the shimmering effect you are looking for.
More powerful leds but lesser of them I would say create a shimmer with more contrast in it and vice versa.
My Veros create shimmer extremly well for example but to much surface agitation and it becomes irritating instead and almost looks like it is flickering.


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