# Sand Search



## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

Wanting to replace my current sand, but I need something fine-grained, absolutely no sharp edges (for burrowers), and something that'll be beneficial to plants. I'd also like it to be heavy, so it can't be siphoned out easily. I'll need it in a large quantity (~75 lbs or more for depth, right?) for my low-tech 55g standard, price being a prominent factor. Something natural colored (red, brown, tan) would be preferred, but I can deal with black. I'd like to mix, and not layer this time around.

As always, thank you for your long-suffering help. You guys have been a safeguard :thumbsup:


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

Will 3 out of 4 be good enough? 

High CEC, soft for burrowing fish, natural enough colors (I do like the black or charcoal versions) or get 2 or more (they are cheap enough!) and mix for a more natural look = Soil Master Select, Turface and similar material. Too light, though for your 3rd point. 

High CEC, soft for burrowing fish, fairly heavy, but color may not suit you:
Mineralized soil with a sand cap (sand deep enough for Loaches, cories and similar fish) . Another really cheap way to go. 

High CEC, soft for burrowing fish, medium brown or a bit darker, not very heavy: ADA product line. Very expensive. 

No CEC, OK for the fish, many colors, or buy several for a blend, very heavy: Swimming pool products like 3M Colorquartz (a discontinued item).


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

Thanks for your help! I'd give you a high-five, but that's kinda hard to do from a computer :tongue: Three of four will be considered; I brought out some tough requirements.

Rightly call me a noob, but what's CEC? Something with fertilization?

For your first point, to weigh the Turface, etc. down a bit could I mix a heavy, soft sand with it?

Could I use sanitized compost? Or a cheap aquasoil by itself (LFS has some) or maybe mixed with something? Am I better off getting/making root tabs and just going with something inert?

Sorry, I keep loading you down with questions :icon_roll


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cation_exchange_capacity

Mixing Substrates like turface with sand is usually a bad choice. It will seperate out and can cause compaction leading to anaerobic areas.


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

Thanks Justin! Currently reading the wiki.


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

What about a plain sand with root tabs for my crypts and sword? It'll have DIY CO2, so... comments?


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 4, 2008)

defiesexistence said:


> What about a plain sand with root tabs for my crypts and sword? It'll have DIY CO2, so... comments?


That would be fine, I think.


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

Thanks Anthony, and all


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## barbarossa4122 (Jan 16, 2010)

I used 100lbs of Eco for my 55g for 3" deep.


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

Hmm. How much was that? (so many... options.... brain... overload... :icon_wink)


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## Capsaicin_MFK (Nov 15, 2009)

Wall - -> You <- - Hard place

It is really tough to find a substrate for plants and burrowing fish. Aquasoil is soft, but your fish constantly burrowing in it would definitely cause ammonia spikes. If you go with inert sand and root tabs, hit up over_stocked for RootMedic tabs.


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## ryan-fishtanktv (Nov 16, 2010)

*Check this substrate out !!*

check david making his substrate he uses soil and clay apparently it works great and the plants love it therefore the fish are happy. A healthy tank loaded plants makes the fish feel comfortable. Check the site out too, really informational.
http://www.fishtanktv.com/dirt-in-fishtank/dirt-convert-3-congrats-david-looking-good-man/
and
www.fishtanktv.com


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

How about river sand from a local landscaper. It soft and fine grain with no sharp edges. I get a 50lb bag for $3. Has a nice brown color. The corys loved it.


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## snausage (Mar 8, 2010)

How about a base layer of cheap gravel mixed with laterite and capped with pool filter sand?


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

snausage said:


> How about a base layer of cheap gravel mixed with laterite and capped with pool filter sand?


I have read that you can mix the laterite with the gravel. The sand will mix into the gravel.


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

Capsaicin_MFK said:


> Wall - -> You <- - Hard place
> 
> It is really tough to find a substrate for plants and burrowing fish.


Yes.... I tend to stick myself in these types of situations. Getting the soft stuff is no problem, getting the soft stuff with CEC is. Pool filter sand I may siphon up too easily. I may just end up baking a ton of dirt and adding some safe ferts to it, and topping it with sand.

I've gotten some good ideas from you all. But if any of you own cories/loaches, tell me what you have for your substrate, and if it helps your plants at all. (I was thinking two Misgurnus anguillicaudatus for my cleanup crew and amusement. *loves loaches, but never had them*)

But I'm babbling, and I have to bike somewhere. 42* goodie goodie. I'm wearing layers.... So in any case, laterite and gravel/flourite for rooting layer, and sand for a topper? The sand will migrate down. Common sense. So just an idea (my head's all over the place)... any of you used a screen/mesh above the rooting layer, under the sand. Sure, it'll be tough planting, but... OR organic compost under a heavy sand? (this time around I'll actually _sift_ it. No more eggshells. Turtle'll be mad.)


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

My corys loved the river sand and pool filter sand. The river sand I get from a local landscaper company, $3 for a 50lb bag. The pool filter sand I get from Lowe's.


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## DANIELSON (Jul 15, 2010)

My cory's loved the aquasoil 2 that i have in my tanks. Might not fit in the price range you are looking at though.


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

Moronic questions of the day: Is river sand from actual rivers? (I've done a google, and think there's sites with sand from so-and-so river(s)) Or is it just 'river' sand for construction purposes without actually removing part of an ecosystem?

:icon_roll


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

defiesexistence said:


> Moronic questions of the day: Is river sand from actual rivers? (I've done a google, and think there's sites with sand from so-and-so river(s)) Or is it just 'river' sand for construction purposes without actually removing part of an ecosystem?:icon_roll


You could call a landscape company and ask them.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

I believe all sand is river sand. That is nature's way of manufacturing sand from rocks. Even beach sand gets there by washing down from rivers. Sand deposits are from rivers.


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

Makes sense. Goodness, Hoppy, what most of us would give for your short, logical answers, taking facts we know, and yet applying them practically. Thanks Hilde, too, but my mom was a horticulturalist/landscaper, and she didn't know what it was. I'm guessing a minimum wage employee wouldn't either. Guess I'll just have to go and find out. There's nothing wrong with that though.

For those of you who have tried them, which do you like better: pool filter or river sand?


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## m8e (Oct 16, 2009)

Hoppy said:


> I believe all sand is river sand. That is nature's way of manufacturing sand from rocks. Even beach sand gets there by washing down from rivers. Sand deposits are from rivers.


There is more than one way that nature makes sand. Rivers, waves, ocean currents, wind and even parrotfish makes sand.

There is a lot of sand in sahara that is not river sand.:icon_wink


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

defiesexistence said:


> For those of you who have tried them, which do you like better: pool filter or river sand?


I like the river sand. It is brown. It doesn't get dirty as quick as the pool filter sand does.


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

Hilde: Is it a heavy sand, or coarse? (I don't mean to interrogate you, but I tend to ask many questions) The reason I ask: I'm a horrible siphoner.


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## snausage (Mar 8, 2010)

If you use about twice as much sand as gravel, there will be minimal gravel on the top layer.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

defiesexistence said:


> Hilde: Is it a heavy sand, or coarse? (I don't mean to interrogate you, but I tend to ask many questions) The reason I ask: I'm a horrible siphoner.


Quite understandable for you have never used it and your horrible siphoner. It is very fine. When I didn't put plastic over it the dirt under it came up. When I vacumm the gravel not much comes up as when I vacumm the pool filter sand. Mine I had to sift the small gravel out of it. The corys loved it and left markings all over it. I switched to pool filter sand because ph was not low enough for Apistogramma and wanted to make certain that top substrate was inert. I miss it and am putting it back in planted tank.


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

Hilde said:


> When I didn't put plastic over it the dirt under it came up.


Plastic?


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

Layers of any substrate do not work well. They will mix. 

I have several species of Loach, including Weather Loach, Clowns, Schistura, Zebra, Sids, and others. Almost all are in tanks with Soil Master Select. 
Once the plants have developed some roots it is pretty stable. But it is light weight, and this makes vacuuming tricky. Gotta hold the vac at an angle, and cannot plunge it in all the way or else it will inhale the SMS. 

Go see the sand that is locally available at rock yards, masonry stores and similar. Around here there is a product line called Lapis Lustre that has bagged sand in many grades. Graded sand has almost all the particles the same size, so it will not pack down. This means that it will keep shifting until the plant roots grow a web to hold it in place. 
It will not cause anaerobic pockets like play sand, or sand that has mixed sizes. 

No, do not use compost in the aquarium. Better is a mineral based substrate like fine sand, soil, gravel... 
Mineralized soil is a good way to go if you have the time to make it. Even if you do not mineralize it, garden soil is fine. 
Sift and wash it, including allowing the organic matter to float so you can remove it. You want way under 10% organic matter in the aquarium substrate. 
A blend of sand-silt-clay (official soil particle sizes) works the best when the ratios are somewhere in this sort of range:
Sand: 50% or more. (remember this is the sand that is naturally in some soils, don't go and buy sand to make this up, it will probably be the wrong particle sizes)
Silt: around 25% or a bit more. 
Clay: around 10% max. 
Yes, this only adds up to about 85%. So make sure there is a bit more sand and silt, but no more clay. 
Remove obvious bits of wood, roots, weeds and so on. If there is a lot of floating things when you first wet it then there may be too much organic matter, so remove it. If there is just a bit (under 10% for sure, 5% is better) and it is all very fine, then that is not too bad. If there is none, then I would add a trace of peat moss under the substrate. Not even enough to cover the bottom of the tank. Just a dusting.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

defiesexistence said:


> Plastic?


I used plastic that I buy for the windows. 


Diana said:


> No, do not use compost in the aquarium. Better is a mineral based substrate like fine sand, soil, gravel...


I have read some use compost, but compost could be from leaves. A carbon source is organic matter according to Tom Barr, alias plantbrain. Thus I use reptile coconut bark and then Scott's top soil. Then top with river sand.


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

Hmm, I've used our backyard compost in my tank with great plant growth. You don't even wanna see my Nymphoides aquatica's root system. But I do love the mixing idea, it makes a ton of sense, and I HATE layering..... Options, options. Thanks for your input, Diana!

@ Hilde: The kind of plastic you buy for sealing your windows off from winter drafts? Would the plants root through that to the soil?


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

defiesexistence said:


> Hilde: The kind of plastic you buy for sealing your windows off from winter drafts? Would the plants root through that to the soil?


Yeh, I took the plastic out after half finished filling the tank.


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

^ To prevent getting sand all over. I see now


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

defiesexistence said:


> ^ To prevent getting sand all over. I see now


No, to keep the water from pushing up the dirt under the sand. You see I did a modified El Natural set up, dirt under the substrate with a layer of reptile coconut bark. Doing this decreases the amount of Seachem Excel that I need to dose. For a carbon source is organic matter - plantbrain (alias Tom Barr, author of barreport)


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

Alright. Would the organic matter be considering the potting soil, and nothing else, or what more?


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

defiesexistence said:


> Alright. Would the organic matter be considering the potting soil, and nothing else, or what more?


Yes, in fact one whom read book by Diane Walsted, a promoter of El Natural style, used Mircacle grow potting soil. I have added Scott's cactus soil and Scott's potting soil to the top soil. I had to sift the bark out. You have to rinse it and let it dry out to rid any impurities in the dirt. 

Many items have organics in them. Example are peat moss, sphagnum moss, and worm casting substrate. Just don't use any thing that has manure in it for it would be toxic to the fish.


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

What about... Leaf litter?


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

defiesexistence said:


> What about... Leaf litter?


If they are from trees that have sap, pine trees, it may cause problem. You are talking about leaves from outside, not some kind of cat litter?


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

Yup, I'm talking about leaves. What about from something deciduous? Maples and oaks are safe wood for aquariums: wouldn't their leaves be too?


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

leaf litter is fine and actually good, in the appropriate tank with appropriate fish. It will never be conducive to a perfectly clear aquarium and will release tannins. Oak leaves are popular, as are indian almond leaves. 




Hilde said:


> If they are from trees that have sap, pine trees, it may cause problem. You are talking about leaves from outside, not some kind of cat litter?


I don't imagine people to put pine needles in trees. We are talking deciduous leaves.


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

And what if... I do a layer of leaf litter, a big layer of compost and sand mixed, then top it with little bit of plain sand? Or, what if I shredded the leaf litter, and did sand capped over a sand/leaf litter/dirt mix?

OR, just did the sand, leaves and dirt mixed, with nothing else? Which of the three, if any?

(One of these days, this forum will make my head explode, and all that will be left will be bits of my brain on my computer screen.)


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

I would not cover the leaf litter. This is asking for a major anaerobic layer. If you want something on the bottom, just use plain dirt or MTS.


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

No covered leaf litter. Kay. Thanks, O_S.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

defiesexistence said:


> No covered leaf litter. Kay. Thanks, O_S.


I disagree with that. If you just put a thin layer it will be okay. 
My substrate is:
1st layer - sprinkled laterite for iron
2nd layer - 1/2 in of Reptile coconut bark
3rd layer - dirt 
4th layer - sand

If you gravel that is not small enough to keep it capped put a thin layer of sand. About a fingers width.

Many use oak leaves to lower the ph. What is your ph?


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## enlender (Mar 23, 2010)

question sorry i dont mean to hijack a thread but i have a tiny 1gallon corner tank do i still have to worry about pockets if i go straight pool sand in that small of a tank with just shrimp an a otto or 2?


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

enlender said:


> do i still have to worry about pockets if i go straight pool?


If you don't make it more than 1.5 in it shouldn't be a problem. To make certain you can weekly poke the substrate to let air bubbles out. As long as the bubbles don't have a rotten egg smell it is normal.


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

Hilde: pH is 7.5ish. For the animals I keep, that's just fine. I wouldn't mind if it would drop a few tenths. I was just thinking that the tank would be set up for the long term, and then over time, that half decomposed leaf litter would become very fertile dirt and release nutrients in later years.

Oh, and I found play sand yesterday at a chain gardening store. 50 lbs is $2.59, while a five pound bag of potting sand is $2.97. Made me laugh that there's sand so clean a child could theoretically eat it and yet, there's this little bag... I didn't pick it up, though it looked pretty soft. I'd like to find a darker, not bright white sand color. But I know where to find this if I can't find anything else. Maybe I'll go to the local quarry company, if the home improvement stores don't have anything?


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

defiesexistence said:


> Oh, and I found play sand yesterday at a chain gardening store. 50 lbs is $2.59. I'd like to find a darker, not bright white sand color.


Then try a landscaper company. There get river sand. It is brown in the tank. My favorite. Never looks dirty like the pool filter sand (PFS) I have in 29 G.
By Rhaethe


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

Whoa, that looks nice. I bet it wouldn't wash out the fish either. The quest continues... the next time we run errands.


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

Finally found some promising stuff at a home improvement store, after browsing garden centers and finding only bright white play sand. It's darker, but it had a warning on it. Something along the lines of 'do not ingest... may cause health problems... respiratory problems (sure, if I breathe dust in, my lungs will get irritated),' because of the silica dust in it. It was not river sand, but it was for landscaping, drainage layers. However, this silica dust doesn't sound much different than the dust in aquarium sand we all rinse out. My question is: Do I try rinsing it out?


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

defiesexistence said:


> This silica dust doesn't sound much different than the dust in aquarium sand we all rinse out. My question is: Do I try rinsing it out?


Yes, at least 1 time.


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

I rinse until my hands can't feel the sand anymore, or the water runs clear. So you are saying that it sounds safe?


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

defiesexistence said:


> I rinse until my hands can't feel the sand anymore, or the water runs clear. So you are saying that it sounds safe?


I thought you referred that it is safe. Do you have a link to the item?


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

No link. Can't find it on their online store, likely because it is a 'summer' item. Was just wondering if I could use this, but I'm worried by the warnings of silica dust on the packaging. It said it was nontoxic, but the dust may have some adverse health affects. If it's just dust, can't that be thoroughly rinsed out, and voila, safe for fish?


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

defiesexistence said:


> It said it was nontoxic, but the dust may have some adverse health affects. If it's just dust, can't that be thoroughly rinsed out, and voila, safe for fish?


Dust would settle when it is wet. How about setting up a trial in a glass. Let it sit over night. Then test it or take water to pet store to be tested.


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

I could try it, or keep searching. Thanks for your long-suffering, Hilde. I'll probably have to call upon it again soon, likely in this same thread. If I had a hat, and you could see it, I'd tip it to you all.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

defiesexistence said:


> I could try it, or keep searching. Thanks for your long-suffering, Hilde. I'll probably have to call upon it again soon, likely in this same thread. If I had a hat, and you could see it, I'd tip it to you all.


:hihi:
All sand is silica based thus doubt it is unsafe for fish. Just wonder if it is so light that it will create dust storms.


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

Through the bag, it looked to be very fine, soft sand, no sharp edges. No little plastic pocks on the outside of the packaging from sharp edges on the inside. I could make out grains, but they were pretty tiny. Not like the Este's stuff I'm used to.


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## Shawnts106 (Sep 25, 2005)

I think what you have found is that Blasting Silica sand they use for sand blasting... it is dirt cheap and an awesome color....

I found some at Home depot, but asked about it, and was told that the grains are too sharp for corys etc....

However, I would think that if you rinsed the dust/lighter pieces out really well it would help...

I dunno .. this is the only thing Ive found around here close to riversand looking... I havent used it but it does look that way dry.


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

Thanks for your response!

No, it wasn't blasting sand, but HEY! New idea. Thanks  The hunt is continuing... at a snail's pace. At this point, I'm considering MTS as a last resort. I'd rather do a mix with sand and dirt, with a minute layer of something at the bottom for my root-feeders.


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

Picked up some OldCastle Kolorscape washed play sand from the Depot. It specifically says 'not for use in aquariums'. Nor does it say nontoxic, or inert. Stupid, yes, but anyone have bad experiences with this?


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

Do a Google search. Seems OK. Sings reefers use it. 

http://www.bostonreefers.org/forums/showthread.php?25920-kolorscape-oldcastle

Sent from my DINC


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

Though it does look VERY fine, from what I can see. This can lead to anaerobic pockets. What is the grain size?

Sent from my DINC


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Best is pool filter sand or river sand.


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

Grain size is like powder. Thanks for the ninja-quick reply! I'll submerge it, and see if I've got any dust storms happening. The only nice thing so far is that it looks nice wet.

Slight aside: Anaerobic pockets only happen when there are no roots around, correct? So, if there are developed mature root systems, need you worry about this?


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

Wisconsin must have something against the river sand. I can't find any in stores.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

defiesexistence said:


> Wisconsin must have something against the river sand. I can't find any in stores.


It is not in a store. It is outside at a landscapers. company


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## OoglyBoogly (Oct 19, 2010)

Hoppy said:


> I believe all sand is river sand. That is nature's way of manufacturing sand from rocks. Even beach sand gets there by washing down from rivers. Sand deposits are from rivers.


Parrotfish poop sand after they eat coral. They eat the coral to get to the algae on the inside and then poop out the crushed up hard part of the coral.

I remember seeing this on some nature show but here is a video showing the "sand" excretion!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nm-t3ZpFGU


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

Hilde said:


> It is not in a store. It is outside at a landscapers. company


We've checked that too. All they have is play sand.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

defiesexistence said:


> Picked up some OldCastle Kolorscape washed play sand from the Depot.


Is this the sand or this one or this one?


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

The middle link. I tried to get in touch with the company by phone, but that didn't work. I'll email, I think, to ask if it's inert, and why exactly does it say not to use in aquaria.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

defiesexistence said:


> The middle link.


Found info here that it didn't pass the fizz test. The main thing is that it is made of calcium carbonate. Calcium carbonate dissolves slowly in the water raising the KH, which also raises the pH. Also noticed that many with reef tanks use it.


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

YES! Red flags confirmed, and I can begin the search again :hihi: Thanks for the link, very helpful.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

defiesexistence said:


> I can begin the search again.


Seems it would be easier to just get pool filter sand for Lowes' or pool company. You could always put a thin layer of gravel over if you have trouble keeping it clean. To keep clean you siphon some out and put some new sand down using a cup of sock.


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

All due respect Hilde, for you've helped so much, PFS would drive me crazier. Thanks for the suggestion though. At this point, I may as well just make MTS, or save up, and purchase actual aquarium sand, though 100 lbs will break my wallet for months.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

defiesexistence said:


> I may as well just make MTS, or save up, and purchase actual aquarium sand, though 100 lbs will break my wallet for months.


Here is a calculator to figure out how much you need. MTS baked version by Franco Read someone got top soil for True Value hardware store that didn't had very little mulch in it.


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

Yeah, I read that too. Under fishykid1's thread on what soil for MTS, I think. Thanks for the reminder!!


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## smackpixi (Feb 14, 2009)

Edit...wow did not notice the other 4 pages of posts after the first. feel free to delete.


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

Just another curiosity question: Does blasting sand for sure hurt barbels? Are some brands better than others? (going to HD today to return sand)


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

Changed the title. Still on a sand-hunt. It doesn't have to provide plant nutrients, but shouldn't be sharp, and can't create dust storms. What are some good types/brands of sand that you all have used, whether it be made for aquaria, or no?


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Just found this info that I had saved: Don't get a calcium based sand such as old castle or southdown as it will alter your ph

Cheapest thing to do is wait until Spring and go dig up some dirt from a creak. How about that? Can you wait until then?


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

I could go barebottom until then, but my folks won't.

Is it illegal to harvest sand from a county park? (We've got a huge, huge beach, with perfectly grained, soft sand, which sinks quickly)


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

defiesexistence said:


> I could go barebottom until then, but my folks won't.
> 
> Is it illegal to harvest sand from a county park?


Could then just get pea gravel at hardware store and keep the plants in pots. 

Yes it is illegal to take anything from a government park.


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

Plants are already in pots, with soil, and a pea gravel cap in one 5 gallon pail, with my 48" light on it. Looks pretty funny.

Ah, well. Not like I'd get away with hauling a wheelbarrow back and forth from our house to the park with sand anyhow.


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## fishykid1 (Apr 5, 2010)

Hey there, I just read this page and not sure your set on MTS yet. But I'm going to be honest... If you have clean, non fertilized dirt in your back yard; might as well use it. My MTS is coming along very nicely. I got my dirt near the edge of a forested area in my backyard. It's about 40-45% sand 45% silt, and almost NO clay. But that's not a big deal to add a small amount of clay.

I think I have enough dirt for about a 1" layer in a 75G.


Defiesexistence - Tell you what. I just went to Home Depot and they had 40lb bags of pool filter sand for 6.24. It's nice and light tan, almost white. I couldn't see the sense in spending 100$ on 100$ of black sand.... But rather spend the extra 80$ to get a nice Catalina retrofit built for me!


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## fishykid1 (Apr 5, 2010)

Or what you could do with the potted approach is get the burlap type of pots and cut them down. They'd probably be like 5$ for 100 of them. Then fill the bottom with dirt then cap with some pea gravel. Then make sure you have enough sand to cover just over the top of the pots....


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

Thanks for your input!

The potting is temporary; it put a stop to the melting of all my plants when I did my breakdown. And it also deters my new fish, who is not yet used to plants, from uprooting them in the future.

I'm not set on MTS yet either. I think I'll just not mineralize the organic soil I have. (Good, I've been looking to see how your MTS is. Happy to hear it's coming along well. No H2S yet?)

Thanks for the recommendation on the sand. I don't see the sense in spending a lot of cash on a little sand either. How did that PFS look, grain-size-wise (still has to run to HD to return calcium sand)? Is it like powder?


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

If you 55 gallon tank is 48 1/4L x12 3/4 W with the calculator I figure you can get by with 17lbs of sand if you keep about .5 in. high. That may be enough to cap the top soil. You could make it higher by having an area sectioned off with gravel. I use metal strips, in gutter section of hardware, to keep soil or marbles separate.


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

Yep, it's a standard. Maybe a high quality sand in a small amount like you suggested....


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

I see Eco-complete on sale on line at Petco for $17. Some stores will match the web price. Possibly could make due with 1 bag by putting top soil, then pool filter sand, and then Eco-complete.


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

I'm planning on slope, so I'll either need a lot of dirt, and a little sand, equal amounts, or a little dirt with a lot of sand.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

defiesexistence said:


> I'm planning on slope.


Well you can put some gravel under the high end to prevent air pockets.


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## fishykid1 (Apr 5, 2010)

defiesexistence said:


> Thanks for your input!
> 
> The potting is temporary; it put a stop to the melting of all my plants when I did my breakdown. And it also deters my new fish, who is not yet used to plants, from uprooting them in the future.
> 
> ...


I'm doing this batch slightly differently. It's working out much better. 
I went and bought myself a nice 18X24" bin for christmas stuff (2$ clearence)

I sifted the dirt (backyard) with 1/4" mesh to get all of the big stuff out, not that there was much. Just incase. 

After that I wet it until it became very pasty, but when I stuck it against the side of the mixing bucket, it stayed somewhat firm, but would easily be removed. 

Then I just would lay the mud mixture down into the bin so that it was about 3/4" to an 1" thick. With no heat lamp it took 4 days to dry out enough to be wet again.

I found muriate of potash for 6.99 at my local gardening store. If you decide to go the MTS route I could send you some, just cover shipping... Don't think it's absolutely necessary..but I will get it probably Saturday.


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

@fishy: I do thank you for your offer, but I don't think I'll take you up on it. Are you like Hoppy, who refuses to pay for dirt? :red_mouth

@Hilde: Staying away from gravel this time around. It migrates up to the surface and drives me crazier. Maybe some egg crate, and screen...


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## fishykid1 (Apr 5, 2010)

defiesexistence said:


> @fishy: I do thank you for your offer, but I don't think I'll take you up on it. Are you like Hoppy, who refuses to pay for dirt? :red_mouth
> 
> Umm, not completely. But in some ways yes. My neighbors never go even past the edge of their woods. I could take every bit of dirt and they would never know, or care.
> 
> ...


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

Well, then, carry on. I agree with your reasoning :icon_lol:


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## fishykid1 (Apr 5, 2010)

Could have stopped at the 'free' part, but hey!

You check out HD? Or if any pool supply place is open up there in WI see what they have


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

Pools. Wisconsin. Winter. Heh.

I don't think I'll be going to HD within the next 10 days. Vacation. So I won't be bothering TPT for a bit.


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## fishykid1 (Apr 5, 2010)

Don't think of it as bothering, rather an annoyance  Just messin'

Enjoy the vacation. I have 12 days off from school and have NO IDEA what I'm going to do.


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

Gee, thanks there. :icon_lol: Vacation was great, I wore SHORTS! (big achievement; man, I miss it)

Sleep in. Mess with tanks. Make waffles. Take a nap. Fix my DVR.

Back to sand. Pool filter>play sand=true?


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

Sorry to bring this thread up again: Anyone have good/bad experience with Caribsea Super Naturals Sand? Does the Sunset Gold look unnatural?


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

How is the sand hunt going? Get something?


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

No, but I'll be checking something out tomorrow. I'm finally giving in and buying actual aquarium sand. Was thinking of the Caribsea stuff. Have you heard anything negative about it, Hilde? I checked out the other thread going around about the SuperNaturals, but not much wiser from it. I'm going to keep wading through reviews.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

defiesexistence said:


> Was thinking of the Caribsea stuff. Have you heard anything negative about it, Hilde?


No!! Are you getting the white or black? White is hard to keep clean.

How about getting Eco-complete, then. Petco has sales on it at times.


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

http://www.caribsea.com/pages/products/super_nat.html
Was thinking Torpedo Beach or Sunset Gold. I like a naturalish look.

No sharpness at all on the Supernaturals sands?


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

fast93accord is using Caribsea supernatural. One bag of moonlight. One bag of sunset gold.


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

Looks nice (from what I can tell without the t8 bulb)!! Thank you Hilde! I'll go that route if I can find it. Maybe I'll break down and order online.


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

Geez! Just read through your sand searching saga (all of it)
Who would ever think it was so hard to find 'good' sand.
Hope the Caribsea stuff works out for ya.


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

^ Aww, thanks! Sorry for the read! Let's see if I can actually find it now!


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

defiesexistence said:


> ^ Aww, thanks! Sorry for the read! Let's see if I can actually find it now!


Pet Smart sells the white. It is too pricey for me. I wonder if you could find the sand in the spring?


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## sajata (Aug 21, 2009)

I thought the white at pet smart was crushed coral. That would be bad for a planted tank

Sent from my DROIDX


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

sajata said:


> I thought the white at pet smart was crushed coral.


No! The crushed coral has a label with crush coral and looks like little rock.


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

Picked up 60 lbs of the Sunset Gold two weeks ago for 80$ at Petsmart. Not happy at all with the price. So just a quick question before this Sand Search is brought to a close: Is Turface Pro League sharp, like fluorite?

Again, I do appreciate _all_ the help that's been given me over this entire Iliad of sand. Thank you.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

defiesexistence said:


> Is Turface Pro League sharp, like fluorite?


Your avatar is funny. 

Here is a picture of it. Not the best for the cory's but they look like they are doing okay.


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

Thank you for the pic, and compliment (it's my dog's squeaker)! Looks not conducive to burrowers. I'll stick with my super expensive sand.

Sand Search concludes, finally. And my hat is yet tipped to you.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Can't wait until summer to go to pool company for pool filter sand?

Could cut down amount needed by putting top soil under it. I used Scott's top soil. Had to sift it. Read that True Value hardware store has top soil that doesn't need sifting.


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

Nope, the family was 'How long are you keeping that tank bare?' :icon_roll So now the wallet has this _void_ in it.

I'm going to stick MG Organic under it for a mud tank, it has very minimal wood in it. Might stick some hills in using gravel stuck in pantyhose for depth to make the substrate stretch enough to have some depth in a 55g footprint.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

defiesexistence said:


> Might stick some hills in using gravel stuck in pantyhose for depth.


That sounds like a good idea. I would use big rocks in order to not impare any circulation. Problem I had with rocks under substrate was finding place for plant roots. Thus for hills I prefer using rock in front of the dirt. 

Another idea is to use metal strips (4x8 strips in gutter section of HD) and glue rocks on it with super glue or silicon.
38G by Super etc?









Another favorite of mine by PlatinumSM


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

Big rocks I could do. What are your thoughts on eggcrate covered with something to prevent sand and dirt getting through? With both the sand and dirt on top, the plants would have plenty of room for root systems?


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Why not use mesh like PlantiumSM did?


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

Mesh could work!! I just searched PlatinumSM and mesh, and I found their journal. What about screening made of fabric, like what you would have on a storm door? Flexible, and tough.


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## aman74 (Feb 19, 2007)

http://www.permacolorquartz.com/pool.html

Why not this stuff? Seems the equal of the 3M stuff that's worked so well for people and it comes in many colors.

Probably the same thing as the Estes sand sold in the fish stores, but at a much cheaper price since it's marketed for pool use.

Either that or Red Flint PFS.


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