# Help!!! possible cottonmouth?



## msharper (Aug 19, 2011)

Please post pics so people have a better idea.


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## nikelodeon79 (Jan 16, 2012)

What temp is the tank? The best treatment for columnaris is to decrease the temperature and increase water flow... that and lots of water changes.

If it's columnaris you'll likely know... the affected fish will not last long. Sorry.


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## christian_cowgirlGSR (Aug 2, 2011)

The tank's temp is ~75. Should I lower it to 70?


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## christian_cowgirlGSR (Aug 2, 2011)

Forgot to mention... I took the HOB off of my 10 gallon tank and added it to the 29 gallon, which previously only had a sponge filter. I added a second sponge filter yesterday, not because of this "stuff" but because I didn't think the one was enough. When I added the 2nd sponge filter, I removed a 6" bubble stone.

I'm now gonna add a new sponge filter to the 10 gallon.


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## nikelodeon79 (Jan 16, 2012)

75*F should be good... I would also put the bubblestone back in to increase surface agitation, as increased O2 levels seem to help in treatment. Do large, daily water changes: clean water helps a lot.

Here is a link for a site that discusses treatment: http://guppyplace.tripod.com/Ailments.html

Here is a (bad) pic of one of my female bettas that died of columnaris:









The pic is fuzzy, but you should be able to see the patterned color loss on the fish. This fish went from looking healthy to this condition (and dead) in less than 2 days. Columnaris is a NASTY disease.

I noticed the following symptoms with my fish:
-heavy breathing ("panting") 
-loss of color in patches (saddleback) 
-deteriorating/shredded fins, beginning with the caudal fin 
-swelled body 
-rapid deterioration and death

I was told by a rather knowledgeable person that treating with Furan 2 could help, but II had to order it and wait for it to come in when I had the outbreak in one of my tanks. By the time it arrived, the fish seemed to be responding to the non medicine treatment I listed above (increased aeration and large water changes). 

I have also heard to add salt to the tank, but I couldn't because I had corydoras.

I wish you luck, and hope it isn't columnaris. If you aren't seeing the "saddleback" like deterioration, it might be some other kind of fungus.


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## christian_cowgirlGSR (Aug 2, 2011)

Here's the best pic I could get (they refuse to hold still).


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## christian_cowgirlGSR (Aug 2, 2011)

Here's another picture. The quality isn't much better, but you can kinda see the white on the lips.


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## christian_cowgirlGSR (Aug 2, 2011)

One thing odd: Neither danio shows any signs of illness.


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## nikelodeon79 (Jan 16, 2012)

I had a similar thing that happened to my harlequin rasboras... I don't think it was columnaris... all just developed that odd looking white fuzz and died. They didn't look like they'd been passed through a garbage disposal like my fish did with the columnaris outbreak, and it was limited to the rasboras: none of the corydoras in the tank suffered any ill effects.


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## christian_cowgirlGSR (Aug 2, 2011)

*Good news:* My fish are still alive and swimming normally this morning. 
*Bad news:* It's hard to tell since they don't hold still very long, but the danios MIGHT each have a white spot between their eyes. It's very difficult to tell, though, since they don't hold still and, instead, zoom around the tank.

According to this website, there are several strains of columnaris, each of which has a varying degree of lethality to fish and which has varying symptoms. I think my fish have the third strain, out of the 4 types. I have added salt to the tank, lowered the water temperature, increased circulation/air flow in the tank. I don't have any Maracyn to add, but am considering adding melafix.


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## christian_cowgirlGSR (Aug 2, 2011)

*Good news: *My fish are all still alive this morning.
*Bad news:* My danios DEFINITELY have a spot between their eyes.

I have done everything that has been suggested (lower water temp, add salt, daily water changes), and they don't seem to be getting better. Any other suggestions?


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## nikelodeon79 (Jan 16, 2012)

Did you put the bubblestone back in to increase surface agitation (for more O2)?

Columnaris is nasty nasty bad. Sometimes the only thing you can do is wait it out. Sorry.


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## Brian10962001 (Dec 6, 2011)

IF this is columnaris (and from what I understand columnaris is one of the most common infections for an aquarium to get), it will thrive in high oxygen warm water. I had it destroy my betta sorority. Also fish will react differently, I had one male who came down with it, he just acted lethargic and wanted to lay on the bottom. He wasn't clamped or anything and acted fine up until the last day when it bloated him and killed him overnight. He was a GORGEOUS dalmation crown tail. It got my giant betta Otis and he started acting clamped and not eating right. Next the toughest little crown tail female I've ever seen came down with it so bad she was puffing it out of her gills and mouth trying to attack it. It killed a DT and a CT female I had with no symptoms, just fine one day, on the bottom the next. 

What I finally did to combat it was to take a bunch of the isolation cups the fish ship in. I prepped in a one gallon container:

*half tab of tetracycline (enough to treat 5 gallons), 
*half a JFC tab (5 gallons worth as well) 
*double dose of Stress Coat (10 to 14 drops/gal)
*4 tsp of salt 

to make a roughly 4X concentration of prepared treatment. I then prepped another gallon jug with just 10 drops (double dose) of stress coat. 

I put each fish in one of these cups and left them at room temprature (the giant betta I actually used a pickle jar). I changed the water once a day, you could tell when it was needing changed as the water would go from bright green to a very tannic looking redish brown. After this I have lost NONE of my bettas. I've treated three of them so far and one as a precaution. Make sure to go through the full cycle and clean the tank top to bottom with bleach/peroxide. Good luck with it, there are several strains of columnaris and they will attack one fish completely different from how they attack the next.


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## christian_cowgirlGSR (Aug 2, 2011)

Yes, I did put the air stone back in. 

Brian - you suggest bleaching the tank. What about the plants? I've got a tankful of live plants in there, not to mention the shrimp... I will add more of the Jungle brand "Start Right" stuff that I've got that says it's supposed to promote the slime coat.


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## nikelodeon79 (Jan 16, 2012)

If you have shrimp, you need to be extremely careful about treating the tank, because from what I understand, they are quite sensitive to medication.

As far as bleaching plants, I always bleach new plants before I add them to my aquarium. I soak them in diluted bleach, then soak them in dechlorinated water and add to the tank.


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## christian_cowgirlGSR (Aug 2, 2011)

My fish are all still alive today! 

However, I've lost a handful of shrimp (one or two every day that I've found), and I haven't put anything in the tank that should affect them. Does columnaris affect shrimp too? Is there something else that might be affecting the shrimp? I've got half of my RCS colony in the affected tank. The other half is in a separate tank, which is looking healthy at this point. 

I am more worried about losing the fish than I am the shrimp, but I'd rather not lose either if I can help it. Is there some other disease/infection that might also affect shrimp? Any ideas of what I can do to help the shrimp that I'm not already doing?


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## Brian10962001 (Dec 6, 2011)

Apparently there's a fungus that will kill both. This could very well be what you're dealing with.


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## christian_cowgirlGSR (Aug 2, 2011)

Brian10962001 said:


> Apparently there's a fungus that will kill both. This could very well be what you're dealing with.


I've been considering dosing with melafix/pimafix for a couple days now. After this suggestion, I decided to go ahead and do so. What can it hurt, right? I started dose #1 today.


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## christian_cowgirlGSR (Aug 2, 2011)

Today, after their second dose of melafix and pimafix, I've noticed that my fish aren't hiding as much as they had been several days ago (hiding, I've read, can be a symptom of columnaris). I skipped the daily water change today as the dosing instructions say to wait 'till after day 7.


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## christian_cowgirlGSR (Aug 2, 2011)

So, my fish are hiding again today, and one danio looks noticeably worse. I will continue treatment, but I think I'm gonna look into getting a "real" antibiotic. 

Any suggestions?


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## nikelodeon79 (Jan 16, 2012)

I like Furan 2... covers both gram positive and gram negative.


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## christian_cowgirlGSR (Aug 2, 2011)

As the pimafix does not seem to be helping as much today as I had hoped, I have started doing some more in-depth research on columnaris and have come up with some interesting information. There are actually 2 or 3 infections/problems that may all be confused with columnaris. Thus why there are so many conflicting reports as to what people have used to "cure" "
"columnaris". 

I had considered that my fish might have a type of fungus, as I am only seeing white cottony growths and since whatever is affecting my fish also seems to be killing my shrimp. Therefore, I started dosing with pimafix, which says it treats fungal infections. On day 3 of 7, the treatment doesn't seem to be helping, which tells me that I might be dealing with more than one problem (as seen by the differences in symptoms between danios and white clouds) or that I may be treating for the wrong thing all together.

For my information and for the information of others who may be dealing with these or similar symptoms, here is a list of web sites I have found helpful.


American Aquarium Products
Fish Profiles
I still don't know for sure what my fish might have. None of them are showing the "saddle back" that is listed so commonly as a symptom of columnaris. The "lighter colored spots" that the danio(s) has/have doesn't look like cotton like a fungus would. Rather, it just looks like a lighter colored patch. The white lip(s) of the WCMMs don't look cottony either, just a very WHITE spot on them. None of the fish show any other signs. Whatever is wrong with this tank has also been killing my RCS.


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## williamsonaaron (Jan 27, 2010)

Looks bacterial to me.. go with maracyn I and II treatment for 5 days and all should be good.should not hurt the filter media and is not hard on fish.. I do not know about inverts though.


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## christian_cowgirlGSR (Aug 2, 2011)

williamsonaaron said:


> Looks bacterial to me.. go with maracyn I and II treatment for 5 days and all should be good.should not hurt the filter media and is not hard on fish.. I do not know about inverts though.


For my information - Why do you say it looks bacterial?


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## christian_cowgirlGSR (Aug 2, 2011)

Good news: The white stuff seems to be gone on all affected fish!
Bad news: Three days of treatment are left in the 7 that were recommended on the instructions, and I'm out of pimafix. I'll continue the treatment with melafix, and hope that it's enough.

I've placed an order for several medications, including furan 2, potassium permanganate, methylene blue, and of course, pimafix. I will hopefully get these in the next week and will then have them on hand for when I need them.


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