# Growing HC (Dwarf Baby Tears)



## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

Emersed setup has too much water, algae might grow on surface of sand that is covered by the water. And are you covering the plastic box with saran wrap to keep it humid?


----------



## Bryanmc1988 (Apr 3, 2012)

yes it has a saran wrap at the top and the top looks wet cause the water has not drain through out the potting mix yet but it has now and its wet but water is not over flowing the top sand...


----------



## stevenjohn21 (May 23, 2012)

Id be intrested to know which one grows the fastest, great little journal !


----------



## mommabear1007 (Nov 8, 2011)

interested to see this as well. could i talk you into attaching some to DW? XD


----------



## Bryanmc1988 (Apr 3, 2012)

mommabear1007 said:


> interested to see this as well. could i talk you into attaching some to DW? XD


i wouldnt mind but dont have any on me lol besides i dont have a filter on so adding a drift wood might be more of a pain in the butt then it seems... 

why?
* tan water
* algae build up on wood
and much more pain in the butt... so i say maybe after these test i could give it a try

this should be fun to test later down the road


Poll is up... Let me know what you think / guess and lets find out if you are right or wrong


----------



## mommabear1007 (Nov 8, 2011)

yeah would like to see that someday!


----------



## beedee (Jul 1, 2010)

interesting thread, looking forward to seeing this thing carry out.


----------



## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

The emersed will grow faster. I grew some this summer. I extended $7 Worth to $50 worth in about 3 weeks.


----------



## Bryanmc1988 (Apr 3, 2012)

Well this will tell us what everyone is looking for... 3 ways which works which don't... Can hc grow without co2? A lot have ask this and there is a lot of answers so now we will all know if it's possible or not


----------



## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

Bryanmc1988 said:


> Can hc grow without co2?


Grows pretty slow in my no-CO2 Finnex 4g.


----------



## Bryanmc1988 (Apr 3, 2012)

true, it does grow slow as the co2 tank has seen some growth the pass 2 days but i might be wrong... lets wait till friday and take some picture and compare...


----------



## Firemedic269 (Oct 10, 2012)

This is a great thread! I'm really happy to have found it. I would also be interested to see a tank with Flourish Excel being dosed. That way we could see no CO2, Excel, and CO2. This is a really great idea. Thank you for doing it.


----------



## Bryanmc1988 (Apr 3, 2012)

Firemedic269 said:


> This is a great thread! I'm really happy to have found it. I would also be interested to see a tank with Flourish Excel being dosed. That way we could see no CO2, Excel, and CO2. This is a really great idea. Thank you for doing it.


i am doing it with Flourish comp. but Flourish Excel is a grade up so if the main tank does fine, i am 1000% sure Flourish Excel would have no problem with req dose on the bottle for Flourish Excel


----------



## i4x4nMore (Mar 31, 2008)

This is a good thing to prove to yourself and you should carry it out to gain the knowledge. HC is very easy to grow and if done correctly, you can create huge thick carpets in a non-CO2 (soil) tank. Yes it does take a while, I.e. six months. But there is no big mystery here. Also you need to plant it a little differently to make that happen faster. The method is very tedious, but well worth the effort if you're going for a solid carpet. Your planting is too clumpy and you haven't efficiently used the mass of rootlets and shoots that you can get from one bucket of HC.

As for CO2 enrichment, well I couldn't kill the HC if I wanted to.... Ultimately, this is the answer to your poll. CO2 will always give an advantage and produce vigerous growth compared to non-CO2. All three of the methods you are exploring can be healthy though. For me, there is no such thing as "best".

I've also gotten emersed HC and glosso without even trying... I tore down a tank and left a big mound of bare aquarium soil that used to have HC and glosso growing in it. The dirt was just sitting there exposed to the metal halide lights that flood my kitchen - within a week it was completely covered in green sprigs of HC and Glosso. After i noticed it, All I did was keep it moist with a spray bottle. (This is why Sayurasem responded that you had too much water in your emersed setup... All you need is moist soil. No need for plastic wrap either. )

Have fun.

Cheers,


----------



## Bryanmc1988 (Apr 3, 2012)

i4x4nMore said:


> This is a good thing to prove to yourself and you should carry it out to gain the knowledge. HC is very easy to grow and if done correctly, you can create huge thick carpets in a non-CO2 (soil) tank. Yes it does take a while, I.e. six months. But there is no big mystery here. Also you need to plant it a little differently to make that happen faster. The method is very tedious, but well worth the effort if you're going for a solid carpet. Your planting is too clumpy and you haven't efficiently used the mass of rootlets and shoots that you can get from one bucket of HC.
> 
> As for CO2 enrichment, well I couldn't kill the HC if I wanted to.... Ultimately, this is the answer to your poll. CO2 will always give an advantage and produce vigerous growth compared to non-CO2. All three of the methods you are exploring can be healthy though. For me, there is no such thing as "best".
> 
> ...


well said... from what you are saying here is correct but more people who just join the HC farm can benefit from this and this is why i am doing it... or for now till my co2 kit comes in then its all out co2 lol but thats not till another 2-3 weeks so its a waiing game in the mean time i'm just having fun =)


----------



## Monster Fish (Mar 15, 2011)

i4x4nMore said:


> This is a good thing to prove to yourself and you should carry it out to gain the knowledge. HC is very easy to grow and if done correctly, you can create huge thick carpets in a non-CO2 (soil) tank. Yes it does take a while, I.e. six months. But there is no big mystery here. Also you need to plant it a little differently to make that happen faster. The method is very tedious, but well worth the effort if you're going for a solid carpet. Your planting is too clumpy and you haven't efficiently used the mass of rootlets and shoots that you can get from one bucket of HC.
> 
> As for CO2 enrichment, well I couldn't kill the HC if I wanted to.... Ultimately, this is the answer to your poll. CO2 will always give an advantage and produce vigerous growth compared to non-CO2. All three of the methods you are exploring can be healthy though. For me, there is no such thing as "best".
> 
> ...


That's pretty cool. I should try growing some HC without CO2. I already have some, growing emersed under a CFL.


----------



## Bryanmc1988 (Apr 3, 2012)

Main Post has bee updated with the new week update


----------



## Kai808 (Jul 19, 2011)

Cool experiment. Off hand do you know if the batch of HC was grown emersed or submerged? From the looks of the pictures the leaves look like the emersed form. That might give option #3 another advantage. 

Good luck!


----------



## Bryanmc1988 (Apr 3, 2012)

the first 2 tanks are submerged... main 40B has high light no co2... 10gal tank was growth submerged with co2 low light.... and the 3rd was a emersed with moist soil and sand but was not submerged in water... hope that helps


----------



## Kai808 (Jul 19, 2011)

Bryanmc1988 said:


> the first 2 tanks are submerged... main 40B has high light no co2... 10gal tank was growth submerged with co2 low light.... and the 3rd was a emersed with moist soil and sand but was not submerged in water... hope that helps


Sorry, I meant when you bought the HC from the store. I think most HC, if coming from a nursery is grown emersed. Then the lfs will un-package it and drop it in their display tank.

I did an experiment where I took HC cuttings from my established tank and some from an emersed set up for my DSM tank. Of course the emersed HC grew faster since it didn't have to adapt like the submerged form.


----------



## Bryanmc1988 (Apr 3, 2012)

Kai808 said:


> Sorry, I meant when you bought the HC from the store. I think most HC, if coming from a nursery is grown emersed. Then the lfs will un-package it and drop it in their display tank.
> 
> I did an experiment where I took HC cuttings from my established tank and some from an emersed set up for my DSM tank. Of course the emersed HC grew faster since it didn't have to adapt like the submerged form.



well when i bought my HC they where submerged in a tank, for how long thats is still a mystery but from what i saw and asked when i bought them was that they where in a submerged tank with running co2... thats all that i knew


----------



## Green_Flash (Apr 15, 2012)

is it possible to grow HC with 2wpg and no co2 or ferts? I am going to try a small pot, using ada aquasoil.


----------



## phoenixkiller (May 13, 2012)

Green_Flash said:


> is it possible to grow HC with 2wpg and no co2 or ferts? I am going to try a small pot, using ada aquasoil.


I don't keep it myself, but...

I would say it may survive, but the growth would be super slow, and it would grow upwards towards the light, it would generally look awful. I would say it would do much better with CO2 at least, if not high lighting.


----------



## Bryanmc1988 (Apr 3, 2012)

Green_Flash said:


> is it possible to grow HC with 2wpg and no co2 or ferts? I am going to try a small pot, using ada aquasoil.


2wpg is low light and i would not recommend using co2 with low light unless u dont have any live stock but ferts are a must in the planted tanks.... ada aquasoil is a soil base fert... they last for about 8-10 months once it is place in a tank... ada soil is over price you could just go to any homedepot store and pick up some organic soil or potting mix... which should last you about the same time as ada soil.... about the HC they will die in your tank... they love the co2 but you will also need lighting... they are medium to high light with 2wpg is to low and they will not grow... if you want to grow them... do the emersen style as you wont need light or co2... just have natural sun light for them...


how to use the organic potting mix or soil as base?
* no water in the tank.... add about 2" of organic potting mix or soil
* then add about 2-2.5" of normal aquarium sand or gravel... (sand is better)
* add water... make sure you pour it in slowly so that u dont mix or throw up the sand as the soil will come up also and it looks dirty....
then boom you got a soil base for your planted tank... but ONLY USE ORGANIC... NO ONE LIKES COW DONG IN THEIR TANK NOR DO FISH LIKE THEM...





phoenixkiller said:


> I don't keep it myself, but...
> 
> I would say it may survive, but the growth would be super slow, and it would grow upwards towards the light, it would generally look awful. I would say it would do much better with CO2 at least, if not high lighting.


well yes and no... when using co2 you would ike to have a good lighting system at less medium light to high light... when you have low light or not enough light the plants dont consume that co2 and will kill your live stock


----------



## i4x4nMore (Mar 31, 2008)

Bryanmc1988 said:


> 2wpg is low light and i would not recommend using co2 with low light unless u dont have any live stock but ferts are a must in the planted tanks....


CO2 benefits the growth of plants at all lighting levels - especially at low light levels. It has been illustrated that adding CO2 to a low light setup can increase the growth rate by a factor of 4. Tropica posted an article showing this using Riccia as a test case: CO2 and Light Stimulate the Growth. 

In summary, the article explains that plants have a certain energy budget (energy gained from photosynthesis) and when CO2 or light is limited, some of the that energy is either used to gather more light, or to gather more CO2. When CO2 is limited, you can give the plants an advantage by increasing the light. Similarly, when light is limited, you can give the plants an advantage by increasing the CO2. 

As long as the CO2 concentration is no higher than 40 ppm, livestock shouldn't have any problem - and this is independent of the lighting levels.

So maybe it would be more correct to say to Green_Flash that the lighting level in their tank needs to be further quantified before giving advice on whether to increase the levels. 

Specifying 2wpg doesn't say anything about the lighting. I have illustrated that you can take low wattage CFL bulbs and create either low light (30-50 PAR), high light (70-120 PAR), and even very high light (200+ PAR) all with the same bulb - all depending on the reflector, bulb orientation, and distance. You can see those diagrams which show PAR measurements here: Testing Household CF Bulbs 

While Green_Flash may not be using CFL bulbs, the same methodology applies for most light sources.




> ...about the HC they will die in your tank... they love the co2 but you will also need lighting... they are medium to high light with 2wpg is to low and they will not grow...


HC is not a high light plant. It can grow in a wide range of lighting levels. I've had it grow in as little as 40 PAR (umol/m2/s) using no CO2 and it will carpet. You are right to say that it will take a long time at this lower lighting level, but it does not _require_ high light, nor supplemental CO2. It probably _does_ require a good substrate if no further nutrients are being added...

Since Green_Flash is going to be using a soil-based substrate, they may very well get some growth out of it in their 2wpg tank - if we knew what 2wpg really meant in relation to their tank. 

In the end, it may very well be that increasing the light may help, especially if they aren't going to supplement with CO2. But advising against CO2 is not good advice in my opinion.


Cheers,


----------



## In.a.Box (Dec 8, 2011)

Emersed hc will grow faster even at lower light. You can put a 3300k light bulb on it and it will out grow the other 2.


----------



## Green_Flash (Apr 15, 2012)

Thanks for the replies, the 2 wpg I posted was probably misleading, I am going to be using the new ADA AQUASKY LED and just divided the wattage by the tank size and got 2wpg. But as I later found out, LED lighting does not go by that, I also heard the AQUASKY is quite bright. I picked ADA Aquasoil and I was really impressed with the quality of the product. I can see using organic potting soil, but that is not really designed for growing plants underwater. I went with the specialty aquasoil because it is designed specifically for growing submerged plants. I do not think it was overpriced either, implying it was overpriced means it is not worth the the price, and I find the quality second to none. So yes, as an actual user and purchaser of ADA Aquasoil I can say IME it is a high quality product and works like no other. 

Thank you i4x4nMore for that reply, your original post was what inspired me to try HC .


----------



## Bryanmc1988 (Apr 3, 2012)

i was just saying what i cam across when i was doing it... nothing bad if others had success then who am i to say they are wrong... but just my 2 cents try it and see how it goes... every tank is different... you might get better luck them me ... just never know till you give it a try... i say buy 1 pot and try that out and see if they grow or die... 5-10$ ea pot is not expensive... think of it as a lunch... 1 lunch for something u enjoy.... wish u the best of luck green


----------



## Green_Flash (Apr 15, 2012)

Thank you, lets hope it grows! :smile:


----------



## Bryanmc1988 (Apr 3, 2012)

from what i am doing it seems as if co2 with medium light seems to grow alot faster then my other 2.... just an option... i have some paintball co2 setup i have laying around if ur interested in buying them let me know pm me


----------



## Steelwolve (Sep 24, 2012)

Hows the HC lookin? Was really interested in your experiments, even if the experts can predict the outcome I enjoy watching it grow, with the different methods.


----------



## Bryanmc1988 (Apr 3, 2012)

from what i have concluded... 

the non co2 tank doesnt seem to grow out as much or even any noticeable new leafs, but they are not dying thats a fact...


the 10gal tank with co2 has shown lots of growth and expanding...


Emersed seems as if its a hit and miss project... the substrate is keep moist but not over water some of the patch are growing and some are dying... the one's that do grow, you can see new leafs but slow to growth compare the the submergable co2 in the 10gal tank... and well the dying one's seem to just die...


new photo's updated on the main post
.
.
.
.
.


----------

