# 210G High Tech Planted Rainbow Tank



## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Nice large rainbow tank! Thanks for sharing, and I'll be following along!


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## Gillionaire (Oct 26, 2018)

Some additional photos taken a couple of weeks ago


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

You had me at "Bow Tank"!:grin2:

Add in 125G of plants, and even better.

Looks like a really good start. Good looking plants and Bows.

Lot's of possibilities with this one. Got a feeling it will just get better and better.

Subscribed!


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## Gillionaire (Oct 26, 2018)

Greggz said:


> You had me at "Bow Tank"!:grin2:
> 
> Add in 125G of plants, and even better.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the kind words and glad to have you aboard!


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Always nice having another planted Bow tank on the site. Lot of great pics so far - look forward to your progress.


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## JohnStark (Feb 17, 2019)

*Nice Tank!*

How long have you had the Fluval 3.0?? How did you set them up? I am working on setting up my 110G (72x20x18) and was thinking 2x fluval would be the way to go - I like the control, and is it easy to setup 2 lights to be identical?


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## Gillionaire (Oct 26, 2018)

JohnStark said:


> How long have you had the Fluval 3.0?? How did you set them up? I am working on setting up my 110G (72x20x18) and was thinking 2x fluval would be the way to go - I like the control, and is it easy to setup 2 lights to be identical?


I purchased these lights when I initially purchased the tank which was about 5 months ago. IMO, they are a night and day difference when compared to the 2.0 when it comes to functionality. The 2.0 operated via wifi and was a nightmare as the lights would constantly deviate from the programmed schedule. Nothing worse than having the lights come on at 100% during the middle of the night (my tanks are in my bedroom). 

I have one 36" for each half of the tank and have them on for an 8 hour photo period. It's very easy to set each fixture to be on the same schedule. You first need to save a profile (sunrise/sunset & light intensity) and you can then export the identical settings to any other fixture. See screenshots below. Please don't make fun of my lazy naming conventions.

My only complaint is whenever power is disconnected from the fixtures you have to open the app on your phone for the fixtures to return to their programmed schedules. Obviously, since they operate via Bluetooth you will need to be within Bluetooth range in order for them to return to schedule. My fear is that the power will go out whenever I'm out of town and I will return to a nightmare. I don't think there is a fix for this as it would require the programming to be stored in the fixtures themselves. 

Other than the above, I would recommend them as they are very easy to use and seem to provide plenty of light to grow plants (have not measured PAR at substrate).


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

I feel your pain with the Fluval lighting. Had (2) of the 24" 2.0 models on my tank for awhile. They were, in my opinion, better than the Satellite Plus Pro lights. Very much hated the WiFi connection.
I now have a 3.0 nano light on a 5g tank - much better interface. Was not sure how much of your light was running at 100% but figured at least some of it is as that is a pretty big tank.


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## Gillionaire (Oct 26, 2018)

Immortal1 said:


> I feel your pain with the Fluval lighting. Had (2) of the 24" 2.0 models on my tank for awhile. They were, in my opinion, better than the Satellite Plus Pro lights. Very much hated the WiFi connection.
> I now have a 3.0 nano light on a 5g tank - much better interface. Was not sure how much of your light was running at 100% but figured at least some of it is as that is a pretty big tank.


I'm running all spectrums at 100% except "Warm White" which is at 12%. I don't particularly like the "Warm White" as it is too yellow for my preferences.

My algae is manageable with this set up and I think I can overcome it and still maintain this intensity.


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Gotcha - not a big fan of the "yellow" look either. Can't recall if you have been to the Share your dosing thread yet. If you know the substrate PAR of your lighting it would be interesting to see how your dosing compares as I suspect your light level is probably about half of what mine is. Small tweeks in your dosing might help reduce algae to a very minimal level - assuming good tank maintenance is happening.


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## Gillionaire (Oct 26, 2018)

Immortal1 said:


> Gotcha - not a big fan of the "yellow" look either. Can't recall if you have been to the Share your dosing thread yet. If you know the substrate PAR of your lighting it would be interesting to see how your dosing compares as I suspect your light level is probably about half of what mine is. Small tweeks in your dosing might help reduce algae to a very minimal level - assuming good tank maintenance is happening.


I have not visited the "Share your dosing" thread yet as I have not yet measured my PAR at the substrate. I think your assumptions are most likely correct as I don't think my par is very high. 

I plan on getting a par measuring device, a ph probe, and the "bubble counter" replacement gauge that Greggz and a few others use around this forum. I simply cannot count the bubbles that are going into the tank ATM. 

Once I have the above measurements/controls in place I will then be able to tweek my dosing.

My tank maintenance is as follows:

*Weekly*
50% water change
Trim plants
Manually remove algae 

I also clean a canister every 3 weeks which means each canister gets cleaned every 6 weeks.

This journal is awesome and I'm glad that I started this thread. Thank you all for the encouragement and feedback!

I anticipate that the simple act of starting this journal will result in a much more beautiful tank in the long run.

Cheers!


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## Gillionaire (Oct 26, 2018)

It's been a couple of weeks since I have posted so I wanted to give an update of my tank. I did my weekly maintenance yesterday and so I have some before and after pictures of the trimming.

*Changes:*



Switched from PPS-PRO dosing to EI. There is really no reason other than I have never tried it and I want to see if there are any noticeable changes. My weekly maintenance will remain the same with a weekly 50% water change.



Reduced my blue lights from 100% to 5% as I have read that it can induce algae to grow. We will see if it has any noticeable effects.



Added a new Dorityi who is already showing some good colors. 

My LFS recommended an Aqualog poster that has pictures and descriptions of 64 rainbow fish species. I purchased this from Amazon and I highly recommend it for anyone who keeps a variety of rainbow fish (pic included below). 

See below for the before and after FTSs as well as some bow pics.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Tank is really coming along.

Nice mix of Bows, and they will only get better and better.

Keep up the good work!


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## Gillionaire (Oct 26, 2018)

It's been a while since I've posted an update. This is mainly due to not having any significant updates... UNTIL NOW.

Updates:

1.) I finally got around to adding a black background. At first I wasn't much impressed but after a few weeks I am really glad I made the decision as the tank looks much better IMO.

2.) Dwyer flow meter added

3.) Replaced my in-line CO2 diffuser with a reactor

My next steps are to add a PH controller for my CO2 and also figure out a way to measure my PAR. I don't think my PAR values are very high at the moment (guessing 30 at sub) but figuring this out will help me understand what will be needed to get more light. Once I have the above controls in place I think I will be in a position to finely tune my ferts.

I am also struggling with some brown algae on my foreground plants (pictures below). Can anyone help me identify what type of algae this is? It's really diminishing the growth of my MC and Dwarf Sag. It seems that the Dwarf Sag will have a period of growth and then be overcome with brown algae causing it to melt away.

See below for some photos of the additions as well as a few tank shots.


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

The alga looks like diatoms. Don't be like me and freak out, just wait it out and things will be ok. Extra water changes to reduce the concentration of silica and other things leeching out of the substrate will help.


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## Gillionaire (Oct 26, 2018)

Phil Edwards said:


> The alga looks like diatoms. Don't be like me and freak out, just wait it out and things will be ok. Extra water changes to reduce the concentration of silica and other things leeching out of the substrate will help.


That's what I was thinking although I was under the impression that diatoms tend to go away after a few months. These have been pretty consistent ever since I set up the tank which was about 8 months ago.

I've just been letting them ride and trimming away leaves that are covered.


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## Yaboihunt (Mar 27, 2019)

Gillionaire said:


> Some additional photos taken a couple of weeks ago




These are awesome rainbows! Love that dark red one!!!


YaBoiHunt


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Looking good- does look like diatoms to me too, but I agree strange they are around after so long.

What are your parameters? Also, what is your water change and maintenance routine?


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## Gillionaire (Oct 26, 2018)

Grobbins48 said:


> Looking good- does look like diatoms to me too, but I agree strange they are around after so long.
> 
> What are your parameters? Also, what is your water change and maintenance routine?


Thank you for asking. As it turns out I am quite surprised by the results.. To be honest, I don't test my water often as I usually only test when I see signs of stress. I used an API test kit to get the below parameters.

Ammonia: 0 ppm
Nitrite: 0 ppm
Nitrate: 40-80 ppm (this surprised me but makes sense given my dosing)
PH: 6.2 - 6.5 (tested during CO2 peak)
Temperature: 77 F

I perform a 50% water change every Sunday (have not missed since tank has been set up). I also did a ~15% water change today to vacuum substrate. I have 2 canisters that get cleaned every 6 weeks (I clean a canister every 3 weeks). Plants gets trimmed about every 3 weeks in which I also vacuum substrate.

Greggz just made an interesting post about EI dosing and I think it describes my situation perfectly. It's been 2 days since my 50% water change and my nitrates are way higher than I thought. I need to test my water on Saturday and see what the readings are for nitrate.

I need to learn how to calculate ppm for the various ferts I am dosing. I measure my ferts based on the EI amounts on NilocG.com. I don't know how this translates into ppm.

At any rate it seems it seems I can cut back on NO3.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

You are on the right path with learning the ppm on your dosing. Good thing is you are using dry ferts so you can adjust as needed. There is a lot of information, both good and misleading in some cases, so take your time to read and challenge what you are reading. Keep asking the questions!


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## Gillionaire (Oct 26, 2018)

Alright folks... Trying to do some math here and could use some help in trying to decipher the below fert concentrations. 

I'm using KNO3 as an example. As you can see in the first picture Potassium Nitrate - KNO3 13.7-0-46. This means it is made up of 13.7% N, 0% of something, and 46% K2O (per the highlights at the bottom of the picture).

What is the 0%?

Also, do I need to be a chemist to understand that 13.7 relates to N and 46% relates to K2O without seeing the answer at the bottom of the picture?

Secondly, how do I take KNO3 and figure out where it goes in the second picture? I know 13.7% is N and 46% is K2O. Where does this fit into the second picture? I am fairly certain I can calculate the ppm but am unsure how it fits into the chart.

I apologize in advance for my ignorance here. I'm trying to learn and this is very new to me.


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Gillionaire said:


> Thank you for asking. As it turns out I am quite surprised by the results.. To be honest, I don't test my water often as I usually only test when I see signs of stress. I used an API test kit to get the below parameters.
> 
> Ammonia: 0 ppm
> Nitrite: 0 ppm
> ...


Several on here can help you work thru your dosing issues (assuming there is some). Oddly enough, I am learning that in "my tank" the level of KNO3 that I add does not need to be very much. I used to be in the 30ppm NO3 range at one time and now I am in the 10ppm NO3 range and possibly going lower due to the high fish output in my tank. You on the other hand have a lot more water, less fish, and less plants overall. It may take a bit of time to find the happy spot in your tank but this can certainly be the place to get the needed info.

Honestly, with regards to whats "in" KNO3 - have never really dug that deep. Generally all I need to know or care about is N-P-K. And I suppose I should state what is less obvious...
For my purposes, *N-P-K refers to NO3 - PO4 - and Total K dosed on a weekly basis.* (I state this because somebody would likely tell me where I went wrong)
Your on-line calculators (and for me, a spreadsheet) will help you determine how much K you are adding to your tank, and when if you dose every other day.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Forget the picture you posted with the 13.7-0-46.

Learn how to use either the Zorfox of Rotalabutterfly calculators. You want to be thinking in terms of ppm. 

And getting a inexpensive gram scale is much better than dosing fractions of teaspoons.

I see you are using my spreadsheet, and that's a good idea to wrap your head around dosing levels.

But I have two up on the Google Drive. You should be using V3.0. The V3.6 you are showing above is set for target dosing and using MgNO3 instead of KNO3 to keep K down (that's a MUCH longer discussion!). 

I use Zorfox, so let's take a look at potential dosing for your tank. In a 125G, I'd estimate 110 gallons of water. If so, let's say you wanted to dose 20 ppm NO3 after a water change. With 50% water changes, that would mean your max accumulation would be 40 ppm (not figuring in fish waste/plant uptake). 

So your NO3 dosing would be 20 ppm and it would also provide 12.61 ppm K. I hope that helps, and if you have more questions feel free to reach out anytime.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

I had started a reply but was on my phone, not the computer so I decided I would reply later. Well, the above response sums up the basics of it!

Keep playing with the calculator of your choice and reading up!


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## Gillionaire (Oct 26, 2018)

Greggz said:


> Forget the picture you posted with the 13.7-0-46.
> 
> Learn how to use either the Zorfox of Rotalabutterfly calculators. You want to be thinking in terms of ppm.
> 
> ...


Thanks everyone. This information is very helpful and it seems I have my work cut out for me for a while. I do use a gram scale and have downloaded version 3.0.

I would like to see what I am currently dosing in terms of PPM. My immediate question is how to I use Zorfox to figure out my current PPM based on my dosing in the below chart. I premix my micro and macro liquids separately based on the below and dose each 3 times a week at 25ml per dose. This will help me understand where I'm at and what kind of adjustments I can/should make.

Again, thanks you all very much for your knowledge sharing!


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Gillionaire said:


> Thanks everyone. This information is very helpful and it seems I have my work cut out for me for a while. I do use a gram scale and have downloaded version 3.0.
> 
> I would like to see when I am currently dosing in terms of PPM. My immediate question is how to I use Zorfox to figure out my current PPM based on my dosing in the below chart. I premix my micro and macro liquids separately based on the below and dose each 3 times a week at 25ml per dose. This will help me understand where I'm at and what kind of adjustments I can/should make.
> 
> Again, thanks you all very much for your knowledge sharing!


For the solution you are creating, how much water are you mixing those weights of the various compounds with? Once you have that you can calculate the ppm based on the dose to the aquarium.


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## Gillionaire (Oct 26, 2018)

Grobbins48 said:


> For the solution you are creating, how much water are you mixing those weights of the various compounds with? Once you have that you can calculate the ppm based on the dose to the aquarium.


I am mixing the weights on the right (grams) into 500 ml of RO. I then dose 25ml of that mixture 3 times a week. I think I can do the math


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

This should help.......................


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## Gillionaire (Oct 26, 2018)

Shout out to Greggz who was kind enough to let me borrow his Seneye par meter I finally have some measurements. Thanks Greggz!

The below images are the results of my measurements. Let me know if you have any questions about the illustrations. 

I did not take measurements in the back as 1.) I assume they are pretty close to the front measures and 2.) the back of my tank is filled with stem plants.

Notable Items:
- the par values seems to jump around quite a bit. The numbers in the below chart represent was I was consistently seeing. The values jumped significantly higher/lower depending on angle, current/surface ripples, etc.
- PUR seemed to be in the 57-60% range throughout entire tank at all levels.
- Center of tank is obstructed by large piece of driftwood

I plan on tanking the measurements again during my next trim when most of the stems have been removed.

Overall, these par levels are in the ballpark of what I was expecting and I do need to think about how I can increase my light intensity. 

Does anyone have any experience of what I should expect if I double the number of light fixtures. For example, if I simply doubled up on my light fixtures (currently have 2x 36" Fluval 3.0 LEDs and went with 4x 36") what would my estimated par output be? I assume it is not a linear relationship.


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

Grobbins48 said:


> For the solution you are creating, how much water are you mixing those weights of the various compounds with? Once you have that you can calculate the ppm based on the dose to the aquarium.


Were you able to get the KNO3 and CSM+B to fully dissolve? That's a lot of material for only 500mL.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Phil Edwards said:


> Were you able to get the KNO3 and CSM+B to fully dissolve? That's a lot of material for only 500mL.


I never did CSM + B with macros, so I am no good there. Only o certain made a macro solution but didn't like it. Right now I dry dose the macros once a week (front load 100%) and do custom micros 3x per week from a pump bottle.


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## Gillionaire (Oct 26, 2018)

Phil Edwards said:


> Were you able to get the KNO3 and CSM+B to fully dissolve? That's a lot of material for only 500mL.


I am also not able to get the material to fully dissolve. I usually just shake the bottle vigorously before I dose the tank.


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

Gillionaire said:


> I am also not able to get the material to fully dissolve. I usually just shake the bottle vigorously before I dose the tank.


Is that working for you?


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## Gillionaire (Oct 26, 2018)

Phil Edwards said:


> Is that working for you?


I guess it's going okay? I assume it's similar to actually dry dosing the tank. Do you foresee an issue with this?


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

Gillionaire said:


> I guess it's going okay? I assume it's similar to actually dry dosing the tank. Do you foresee an issue with this?


If it's working, then it's working.  The only issue I can see would be inconsistent dosing. Every time you shake it you're injecting some raw material into the tank without knowing exactly how much. If you're comfortable doing things as you are then it's all good and nothing needs to change. If you want a bit more consistency and control over the dosing, start playing around with small amounts of material and work your way up to a higher amount that will still dissolve. Make sure to keep good notes and use the nutrient calculator every time so you know exactly how much liquid you need to dose to get the concentrations you want while doing this. When it comes to liquids it's better to have a more dilute solution and have to dose more than the opposite. Keep in mind that KNO3 has a solubility of 242 grams per liter at average room temperature. 50 grams per 500mL would probably be a good starting point.

Regards,
Phil


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## Gillionaire (Oct 26, 2018)

Another quick update as I have added additional lights to the tank.

I remembered that I had a 36" Fluval 2.0 on my QT tank and so I decided to add it the right side of the tank and take some par readings. After doing this I was getting PAR in the 130+ range and so I decided to order 1 additional 36" for the left side of the tank. Below are the par readings with the additional lights.

New light setup:
Left side: 2x 36" Fluval LED 3.0
Right side: 1x 36" Fluval 2.0 LED and 1x 36" Fluval 3.0 LED

Note, the below PAR readings are the highest reading I obtained at that location of the tank. I have all of the fixtures at 100%. After 1 week there doesn't seem to be any additional algae from the higher light. If I see some algae I plan on turning the lights down a bit.


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## Gillionaire (Oct 26, 2018)

I know this thread has been quiet for quite a while but I have been busy. Just want to hint that something BIG is coming! Stay tuned as I will be providing updates starting around mid October.


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## Gillionaire (Oct 26, 2018)

I'd like to get some thoughts about how I should transition to the new tank.

I have 2 FX6's on my current tank and I plan to transfer 1 FX6, plants, and substrate to the new tank and slowly add the fish. My only concern is my current tank will essentially be a bare bottom with only 1 filter and pretty much the same fish load. I am concerned I will be reducing the amount of bacteria in my current system too drastically.

Do y'all recommend that I transfer everything over all at once?

I appreciate any feedback I can get. My top priority is the health of the fish as I can get the plants to bounce back over time.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Gillionaire said:


> Do y'all recommend that I transfer everything over all at once?


Years ago I changed out my substrate. Pea gravel to BDBS.

I emptied out the tank, removed the old substrate, replaced it, then put everything back. Kept the fish in coolers with air stones in them during the swap. 

Everything went smoothly. Did have a very short mini cycle, but ammonia only around 0.25. A few extra water changes and within a week all was well. 

So can't say with certainty, but in my case it was a minor blip. Guessing yours will be too. 

I would do it all once. Just keep a close eye on things for a week or so.


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## Gillionaire (Oct 26, 2018)

As stated earlier in this thread my tank is primarily a fish tank. That being said, I have decided to upgrade my tank to a 210G so that I can keep even more rainbows. It took me about 12 hours to transition everything from the 125 to the 210 and I am happy how it turned out. 

I will be running dual CO2 reactors to hopefully achieve the desired CO2 levels. Below are some pictures of the initial set up. I am waiting on some additional filter hosing so that I can hook up the reactors/CO2.

Let me know what you think!


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

I guess it's no surprise I love this move!!!

210G for Rainbows.......I am jealous.

Very much looking forward to seeing where things go from here.

And nice looking group of Bows you have going there so far.


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## Gillionaire (Oct 26, 2018)

Quick update... I have been dealing with cyanobacteria that broke out shortly after I set up the 210. I treated the tank with Ultralife and it seems to be very effective. After 48 hrs most of the bacteria has withered away and there are no noticeable negative effects on fish, plants, or beneficial bacteria. Note, I have temporarily added an air stone as the treatment can reduce oxygen. 

See below for some fish shots and a FTS. Overall, the tank is looking good and beginning to balance out. I plan on adding more plants in the coming weeks.

More frequent updates on this tank can be found on the gram: plantedrainbow

This is my first time using FlickR so hopefully these photos work! :smile2:

5 by ryan gilmore, on Flickr

4 by ryan gilmore, on Flickr

3 by ryan gilmore, on Flickr

2 by ryan gilmore, on Flickr

1 by ryan gilmore, on Flickr

Bump: Does anyone know where to get some good dosing bottles that are 1000ml? I'm currently using 500ml bottles with 42ml daily doses. I'm having difficulty getting all of the ferts to dissolve. Ideally, I will double the bottle size and also double my daily dose to 84ml.

Thanks in advance,
Ryan


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Looking good Ryan!

Will get even better as it fills in.

Nice looking Bleheri....what kind of Splendida second one from the top??


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## AquaAurora (Jul 10, 2013)

I envy your massive java fern, it never likes my water and just looks like crap.


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## Gillionaire (Oct 26, 2018)

Greggz said:


> Looking good Ryan!
> 
> Will get even better as it fills in.
> 
> Nice looking Bleheri....what kind of Splendida second one from the top??


Thanks Gregg! That is a memelanotaenia splendida (deepwater creek).

Bump:


AquaAurora said:


> I envy your massive java fern, it never likes my water and just looks like crap.


Thank you! I too use to never be able to keep java fern as well. I started with a massive amount and ended up with just a small piece of it. Once I added CO2 it took off.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Gillionaire said:


> Thanks Gregg! That is a memelanotaenia splendida (deepwater creek).


Interesting. It's quite a bit more orange than mine. Will be interested to see how the color develops as it matures.


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## Gillionaire (Oct 26, 2018)

Greggz said:


> Interesting. It's quite a bit more orange than mine. Will be interested to see how the color develops as it matures.


They are from my LFS so who knows :wink2:


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Gillionaire said:


> They are from my LFS so who knows :wink2:


Aha....Then we'll see.

Here is one of mine from a bloodline traced to Gary Lange stock.......


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## Gillionaire (Oct 26, 2018)

Greggz said:


> Aha....Then we'll see.
> 
> Here is one of mine from a bloodline traced to Gary Lange stock.......


Yours looks great and looks like a much better quality specimen. Now you have me wondering what the rainbow is behind your deepwater...


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Gillionaire said:


> Now you have me wondering what the rainbow is behind your deepwater...


Glossolepis Multisquamatus


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## stevewb (Nov 10, 2018)

Gillionaire said:


> Bump: Does anyone know where to get some good dosing bottles that are 1000ml? I'm currently using 500ml bottles with 42ml daily doses. I'm having difficulty getting all of the ferts to dissolve. Ideally, I will double the bottle size and also double my daily dose to 84ml.
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Ryan


I use Erlenmeyer flasks. In the rubber cork I put a piece of LDPE tube going to the bottom of the Flask. To dose I attach a graduated syringe draw up the solution and shoot it into the tank. I like this because I dose before work and it’s very quick for me. A little difficult to clean them thoroughly though. 

Not the answer exactly to your question but food for thought. I had dosing bottles but didn’t care too much for them. Lasted about two weeks before brainstorming up for a new solution


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Looking good and filling in quite nicely! What a great canvas you have to work with!


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## Gillionaire (Oct 26, 2018)

stevewb said:


> I use Erlenmeyer flasks. In the rubber cork I put a piece of LDPE tube going to the bottom of the Flask. To dose I attach a graduated syringe draw up the solution and shoot it into the tank. I like this because I dose before work and it’s very quick for me. A little difficult to clean them thoroughly though.
> 
> Not the answer exactly to your question but food for thought. I had dosing bottles but didn’t care too much for them. Lasted about two weeks before brainstorming up for a new solution


Thanks for the idea! I don't think that will work for my set up but it's making me think outside the box. I will spend some time thinking more about this.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Gillionaire said:


> Bump: Does anyone know where to get some good dosing bottles that are 1000ml? I'm currently using 500ml bottles with 42ml daily doses. I'm having difficulty getting all of the ferts to dissolve. Ideally, I will double the bottle size and also double my daily dose to 84ml.


Here:
https://www.kartersci.com/Bottles_s/240.htm


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## Freemananana (Jan 2, 2015)

What a huge tank! Your fish are brilliant as well. I kept rainbows for about a year and they weren't spectacular. They may have been mostly females though, I'm no fish-spert. I suppose my 125 will have to go to the curb now that I've seen a 210.


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## Gillionaire (Oct 26, 2018)

Freemananana said:


> What a huge tank! Your fish are brilliant as well. I kept rainbows for about a year and they weren't spectacular. They may have been mostly females though, I'm no fish-spert. I suppose my 125 will have to go to the curb now that I've seen a 210.


Thank you! 

Rainbows are an amazing fish but getting an decent strain is key. Males look better for most rainbows but there are a few types that look good for both genders. I usually by 1 or 2 at a time if I see ones that look good at the fish store. 

Judging by some of your blogs you would probably create something spectacular with a larger tank. You have my vote for a larger tank


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## Freemananana (Jan 2, 2015)

Gillionaire said:


> Thank you!
> 
> Rainbows are an amazing fish but getting an decent strain is key. Males look better for most rainbows but there are a few types that look good for both genders. I usually by 1 or 2 at a time if I see ones that look good at the fish store.
> 
> Judging by some of your blogs you would probably create something spectacular with a larger tank. You have my vote for a larger tank


A bigger tank is in the works! Unfortunately, anything over 6' is probably going to be a long term investment and I want to be sure we aren't moving before I setup something that large.


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## Gillionaire (Oct 26, 2018)

I finally completed Gregg's tank parameter document and it seems that I am dosing in much lower concentrations that Gregg. @gregg, can you help me interpret what this means?

Tank Parameters 1.15.20 by ryan gilmore, on Flickr


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Hey Ryan good to see you using the spreadsheet.

As to you dosing less than me and asking what it means.....well doesn't mean much. The only thing that really matters is what is going on in YOUR tank.

I've seen all kinds of dosing schemes work. Much depends on the individual tank. In general more light and heavier mass usually means more demand for ferts. So you never know, as the tank fills in the demand may go up. 

Two things I noticed. Your pH drop from CO2 is 0.8. I would not be afraid to bump that a bit. More CO2 makes everything else easier.

And what micros are you using? Your weekly Fe from micros seems very high, at least in relation to mine. Not saying that's a bad thing, as if it's working it's working. But I highly doubt you need to be at that level and might even benefit from dropping it a bit. 

And most importantly.....pics????


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## Gillionaire (Oct 26, 2018)

Greggz said:


> Hey Ryan good to see you using the spreadsheet.
> 
> As to you dosing less than me and asking what it means.....well doesn't mean much. The only thing that really matters is what is going on in YOUR tank.
> 
> ...


I originally based my dosing concentrations off of EI (NilocG) and was under the impression that EI ensures that there are sufficient levels of nutrients in the water column. As you seem to have much higher concentrations of Macro ferts my question would be what signs did you see to make you increase concentrations?

My PH was measured using the API liquid tests. I think that my measured drop is inaccurate as the fish begin to act funky if I increase CO2 any further. I'm fairly confident that I am at optimal CO2 levels. However, I should probably get a better testing method to be sure.

At the moment, I'm dosing CSM+B for micros. I agree my Fe seems high compared to yours but my levels are based on the instructions from the NilocG website. I am dosing 1/3 of the amount that I dose CSM+B. In other words, my micro solution contains CSM+B and Fe at a ration of 3:1.

I really appreciate your help here. My plants could definitely be doing better IMO but I'm really not sure what levers to pull.

And I will post up some more pics tomorrow


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## Gillionaire (Oct 26, 2018)

I took a ton of tank shots from random angles. I'm sure all of you rainbow keepers are know what I'm talking about... you gotta do some cross overs and spin moves from one side of the tank to the other in order to get pictures of actual plants. 

Anyway, received an order of plants from Gregg and added them to the tank. They all shipped well except for the Nymphoides Hydrophylla 'Taiwan'. I added it to the tank any way so hopefully it will pull through. We will see if I can keep them alive.

I hope you enjoy the below pics 

1 by ryan gilmore, on Flickr
2 by ryan gilmore, on Flickr
3 by ryan gilmore, on Flickr
4 by ryan gilmore, on Flickr
5 by ryan gilmore, on Flickr
6 by ryan gilmore, on Flickr
7 by ryan gilmore, on Flickr
8 by ryan gilmore, on Flickr
9 by ryan gilmore, on Flickr
10 by ryan gilmore, on Flickr
11 by ryan gilmore, on Flickr
12 by ryan gilmore, on Flickr
13 by ryan gilmore, on Flickr
14 by ryan gilmore, on Flickr
15 by ryan gilmore, on Flickr
16 by ryan gilmore, on Flickr
17 by ryan gilmore, on Flickr
FTS by ryan gilmore, on Flickr


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Gillionaire said:


> I originally based my dosing concentrations off of EI (NilocG) and was under the impression that EI ensures that there are sufficient levels of nutrients in the water column. As you seem to have much higher concentrations of Macro ferts my question would be what signs did you see to make you increase concentrations?
> 
> My PH was measured using the API liquid tests. I think that my measured drop is inaccurate as the fish begin to act funky if I increase CO2 any further. I'm fairly confident that I am at optimal CO2 levels. However, I should probably get a better testing method to be sure.
> 
> At the moment, I'm dosing CSM+B for micros. I agree my Fe seems high compared to yours but my levels are based on the instructions from the NilocG website. I am dosing 1/3 of the amount that I dose CSM+B. In other words, my micro solution contains CSM+B and Fe at a ration of 3:1.


Nice pics Ryan!

Those instructions on the NilocG website are pretty well dated. He's still showing Fe at 0.5 ppm, which was widely debated and reduced years ago.

Now as to your dosing, I need to figure out a bit more to know exactly what you are doing. Let's take one item like NO3. You list 3x doses at 3.24 ppm for a total of 9.72 ppm. 

On the website they show 1 1/2 tsp for a 100-125 gallon tank. You have a 210 gallon tank so are you doubling that? If so, 3 tsp KNO3 raises 210 gallons 12 ppm NO3. Three doses would be 36 ppm weekly? So I am just not sure exactly what you are doing????

And all that being said, those numbers are dated and a poor way to figure out dosing. You want to learn how to use either the RotalaButterly or Zorfox fert calculator. If you need help, let me know. 

And CSM+B is another long discussion. Let's first get an idea of what you are actually dosing (amounts) to get an idea of where you are. And also what is your water change schedule? As that has a big impact on dosing and accumulation.


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## Gillionaire (Oct 26, 2018)

Greggz said:


> Nice pics Ryan!
> 
> Those instructions on the NilocG website are pretty well dated. He's still showing Fe at 0.5 ppm, which was widely debated and reduced years ago.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the response!

I use the gram measurements on the site and I started out at 115.7 gm of KNO3 into 500ml and would dose 25ml 3 times a week. Based on post #20 I found my nitrates to be in the range of 40-80 ppm according to an API liquid so I decided to reduce KNO3 which ended up being around 50 gm in 500 ml. When I switched to the 210 I kept all of my concentrations the same but increased my dose to 42 ml. (210G/125G*25ml=42ml.)

I have been playing around with the RotalaButterfly and have become familiar with it. I agree... I like the idea of targeting my dosing in terms of PPM and then figuring out how much to add to my solutions. 

My question would be this... what factors in your tank made you decide to increase your ferts? Also, do you make your own solutions or due you dry dose?

I'm currently doing a weekly 50% WC. Below are my measurements that I add to my 500ml solutions. I then dose 3 times a week at 42ml. I'm currently searching for larger dosing bottles as I'm having issues getting the ferts to fully dissolve in the water.

CSM+B	72.5	gm
Iron (Fe)	24.16666667	gm
KNO3	50	gm
MgSO4	0	gm
KH2PO4	21	gm

Again, thank you very much with your help with this!


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## Gillionaire (Oct 26, 2018)

Quick update.

I have been playing around with the Rotala Butterfly calculator and I am going to try some difference fert concentrations. I am basing my levels for targets. Below are my target PPMs. 

I was looking at a few tanks that have similar plants and styles that I am going for and tried to reach similar concentrations. I will start dosing these immediately and provide an update in a few weeks with, hopefully, some improved results.

Tank Parameters - 2.3.20 by ryan gilmore, on Flickr


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## Gillionaire (Oct 26, 2018)

*Rainbow Fish food*

Does anyone have a good vege food that would be good for rainbows? I've struggled to find a good quality veggie food that isn't primarily fish meal.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Gillionaire said:


> Does anyone have a good vege food that would be good for rainbows? I've struggled to find a good quality veggie food that isn't primarily fish meal.


Any reason you want a veggie food? IMO, it's kind of an old wives tale or folklore.

Even Gary Lange wonders where it came from. He has said that most Rainbows live on insects, crustaceans, and whatever else they can catch.

More important is just a good mix of a variety of foods. Mine will eat almost anything. 

Here's some of what I use.........










Plus Fluval Bug Bites and Hikari Vibra Bites.

Fish have always colored up well and lived long healthy lives.


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## Gillionaire (Oct 26, 2018)

I have heard that rainbows like veges and I was trying to increase the variety of foods that I feed. Always felt that I wasn't giving them exactly what they preferred. I will take your word for it tho. I already feed like 10 different types of high quality foods less veges.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Gillionaire said:


> I have heard that rainbows like veges and I was trying to increase the variety of foods that I feed. Always felt that I wasn't giving them exactly what they preferred. I will take your word for it tho. I already feed like 10 different types of high quality foods less veges.


Perfect! Your Bows should be happy and healthy!


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## Gillionaire (Oct 26, 2018)

Unfortunately, I am in a situation where I need to part with this fish tank. If anyone is in the Texas area and is interested in the entire set up or fish please let me know.


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