# xenxes's Fluval Spec 2g - Betta Tank



## xenxes

*Thread Moved and Closed.*

*MOVED TO*: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/p...ess-fluval-spec-2g-vase-2g-6.html#post1817861

-------------------

*Current Status (3/8/2012):*

First Tank.

*Tank Progression Pics*


















*Equipment:*
- Fluval Spec, all stock ($32 from Wag's 1/2 off coupon)
- Pagoda from Petsmart

*Fauna:*
1x Male Half Moon Betta
6x Malaysian Trumpet Snails

*Flora:*
2x Crinum Thaianum (water onions)
1x patch of Hemianthus Callitrichoides (baby dwarf tears)
Ludwigia Arcuata
Frogbits
Red Root Floaters
Green Cabomba
Lindernia Parviflora
Amazon Micro Sword
Rotala Macrandra
Hygrophila Polysperma (maybe, not sure what the 3 green leafy plants in the middle are)

*Substrate:*
1/2" Miracle Grow, baked @ 350F then filtered
1/2" Fluval Plant Stratum
1/2" Tahitian Moon Sand
(not sure what I was going for here...)



_Original Post:_
--------------------------------------
First time aquarium owner here, found a Fluval Spec for $32 and couldn't resist. Originally wanted to keep red cherry shrimp, grow some baby dwarf tears, a red plant, but the local Petsmart was understocked, so I made do with what they had.

*Fish*:
1x Male Betta
3x Ghost Shrimp

*Plants*:
1x Anubias
1x Crinum Thaianum, aka Water Onion (bulb)
1x Aponogeton Ulvaceus (bulb)

*Substrate*: mixture of Tahitian Moon sand and aquarium gravel, my finance picked the blue  I would have stuck with natural colors, at least it matches the fish.

*Equipment*: stock Fluval Spec, pump turned to lowest setting.

I read 2 gallons were too small for Bettas and was hesitant at first, but anything seemed an improvement from the pet store containers they were stuck in. He's settled in after a day, and has even started eating out of my hand!

Pics (Day 0):


----------



## JessDay06

I love that little building!!! An that is a beautiful Betta!


----------



## diwu13

Aw the betta in the building is super cute! And betta's are fine in 2gallon bowls with filters. Heck, people even place them in bowls without filters :[

I would tone down the filter a bit more, or just place a piece of sponge over it so your betta can't get sucked in. Don't wanna damage its fins any! Also, add some frogbit or something to suck up the nitrates! Betta's poop lots.


----------



## Basil

Awesome! The blue gravel is ok, but that betta looks good. If you're going to do a red plant then you'll probably need a stronger light than the stock LEDs and you'll also need to dose iron. I'll let someone who actually knows of red plants to reccommend a species for your tank. It's a cool little tank, i just started one as well.


----------



## xenxes

Thanks, I think I'm going to redo the plants.

I'm thinking: 

1x Telanthera
1x Golden Nesea

Both are medium to high light, and Dwarf Baby Tears for the flooring...

Also that blue gravel has to go  will replace with some river rocks & mix in black moon sand.

Any suggestion on a new light source?


----------



## Basil

I suggest the Fluval 13 watt PC clamp on light. Send a PM to somewhatshocked, I think he's still got one.


----------



## xenxes

Think I'll keep it low tech for now, too many things on my plate. I poured some sand over the blue gravel to hide it a little, planted another onion (they shoot up fast!), did a 50% water change. Will grab some frogbits over the next few days (thanks for the suggestion diwu13), and a light when Amazon prices go back down to $25 (thanks Basil).

I stuffed a sponge into the filter, but it kept getting blown out, trying a piece of cotton ball instead.

Betta is doing great, so are the 3 shrimps, 2 of them molted. I left the molt in the tank for them to eat. 

I've been dropping a few pellets to the bottom on purpose to feed the shrimp, is this necessary? They seem to be fighting each other for food, and the 2 slightly smaller shrimps have 1 antenna shorter than the other. Pretty sure the bigger shrimp did it, the Betta avoids them. Food seems to calm them down.

Lastly, I might have too much substrate in the tank now... maybe 2.5", will probably tweak it when my second tank arrives.

Pics (Day +3)









Betta flaring.









Shrimps pigging out.


----------



## diwu13

Gotta say, the black sand makes the entire scape look much better! I like it. Bad news is after a while the sand will fall through the gravel so maybe slowly scoop the gravel out with a larger mesh net or something. If you do decide to remove all the blue gravel completely make sure to add some MTS into the tank to help aerate the sand!

The ghost shrimp probably need 1-2 pellets for all three. So don't feed them specifically, just let them get what falls. Also, keep your eye out for the ghost shrimp. If they start to eat each other chances are you bought a macrobrachium shrimp without realizing it. This mistake is quite common with devastating results. If you notice it, remove all the ghost shrimp asap as the one that is macrobrachium will end up going after the betta.


----------



## doncityz

Beautiful betta.

I'm surprised that your betta haven't eaten your shrimps yet.

I got 2 CAE's in my betta tank and they're both always in hiding.


----------



## xenxes

doncityz said:


> Beautiful betta.
> 
> I'm surprised that your betta haven't eaten your shrimps yet.
> 
> I got 2 CAE's in my betta tank and they're both always in hiding.


TY. I'm getting very fond of the betta, he has a very mellow personality but perks up and follows me as I move across the room (and my finger when I'm in front of the tank). I'm glad I didn't get the fiesty red one. 



diwu13 said:


> Gotta say, the black sand makes the entire scape look much better! I like it. Bad news is after a while the sand will fall through the gravel so maybe slowly scoop the gravel out with a larger mesh net or something. If you do decide to remove all the blue gravel completely make sure to add some MTS into the tank to help aerate the sand!
> 
> The ghost shrimp probably need 1-2 pellets for all three. So don't feed them specifically, just let them get what falls. Also, keep your eye out for the ghost shrimp. If they start to eat each other chances are you bought a macrobrachium shrimp without realizing it. This mistake is quite common with devastating results. If you notice it, remove all the ghost shrimp asap as the one that is macrobrachium will end up going after the betta.


Wow, thanks for the advice. I'll definitely keep a closer look. They all have little red stripes on their antennae, front legs, and tail... I did a quick search and they're virtually indistinguishable from ghost shrimp. One is particularly larger (over 1") and has a big appetite. If he gets over 1.5 I guess I'll know. Also, all the pellets on the bottom are now gone (hours later), maybe 7-8.

My betta is greedy and never lets any pellets fall. He snatches them as soon as I drop them, and does this juggling trick until they're soft enough to swallow. I don't want to over feed him (fed maybe 12 today), his belly is getting very round. I'll drop 2-3 pellets for the shrimp every other day or so, went a little overboard today.

I think I'll keep the gravel mixed in for now, kinda like the specs of blue. Those snails sound scary and I don't want too many critters crowding the tiny tank.

Pics of the shrimps, in case anyone can distinguish:









1 - largest, red stripes on clawss









2 - smallest, red stripes on claws









3 - second largest, no stripes on claws, white-ish where the other 2 are transparent clear (think this is actually a ghost shrimp, and the other 2 macros?)


----------



## diwu13

xenxes said:


> Wow, thanks for the advice. I'll definitely keep a closer look. They all have little red stripes on their antennae, front legs, and tail... I did a quick search and they're virtually indistinguishable from ghost shrimp. One is particularly larger (over 1") and has a big appetite. If he gets over 1.5 I guess I'll know. Also, all the pellets on the bottom are now gone (hours later), maybe 7-8.
> 
> My betta is greedy and never lets any pellets fall. He snatches them as soon as I drop them, and does this juggling trick until they're soft enough to swallow. I don't want to over feed him (fed maybe 12 today), his belly is getting very round. I'll drop 2-3 pellets for the shrimp every other day or so, went a little overboard today.
> 
> I think I'll keep the gravel mixed in for now, kinda like the specs of blue. Those snails sound scary and I don't want too many critters crowding the tiny tank.


As you said, it is REALLY REALLY hard to tell between ghost shrimp and juvi macrobrachium shrimp :[. I can't really tell until you notice one eating all the others or getting extremely large. The red claws could be an indication, but some ghost shrimp also have that haha. Super vague. But if one gets larger than 1.5" it's definitely not a ghost shrimp. I can't tell from the pictures either >.>

As for feeding the betta, you should consider feeding like twice a day, in smaller amounts instead of all at once. Not sure if you do that already. I heard it's better for them, just like it's better for us to eat more numerous smaller meals haha. Not too sure though, nothing proven. Cut down on the feedings a bit? Maybe 10 a day? And sinking 2-3 pellets is a good idea for the shrimps.

Those snails are actually one of the best snails IMO (besides nerites) as they burrow into the sand and allow gas exchange. If you didn't have them you would have to stir up the sand yourself to avoid any pockets of gas that builds up and become lethal. Any inverts take up no bioload so you can have as many as you want :]!


----------



## xenxes

diwu13 said:


> As you said, it is REALLY REALLY hard to tell between ghost shrimp and juvi macrobrachium shrimp :[. I can't really tell until you notice one eating all the others or getting extremely large. The red claws could be an indication, but some ghost shrimp also have that haha. Super vague. But if one gets larger than 1.5" it's definitely not a ghost shrimp. I can't tell from the pictures either >.>
> 
> As for feeding the betta, you should consider feeding like twice a day, in smaller amounts instead of all at once. Not sure if you do that already. I heard it's better for them, just like it's better for us to eat more numerous smaller meals haha. Not too sure though, nothing proven. Cut down on the feedings a bit? Maybe 10 a day? And sinking 2-3 pellets is a good idea for the shrimps.
> 
> Those snails are actually one of the best snails IMO (besides nerites) as they burrow into the sand and allow gas exchange. If you didn't have them you would have to stir up the sand yourself to avoid any pockets of gas that builds up and become lethal. Any inverts take up no bioload so you can have as many as you want :]!


Lol and I thought I had the shrimps figured out. 

I had no idea about potential gas buildups. I'll follow your suggestion and get some Malaysian Trumpet Snails (right?). What's a good number? 6? I read they breed like crazy. I have about 2-3" of substrate in the tank right now and the water filled almost to the brim. Snails would give me an excuse to not remove an inch of the substrate.

Also, will they mess with my plant roots? Have an Anubias, 2x Crinum Thaianum, and the bulb of the Aponogeton Ulvaceus hasn't come out yet.

Pics (Day +4)









Crinums are growing about 1/2" a day in low light! Threw in a couple large river rocks. Water quality perfect.

I just realized the 2nd largest shrimp (on the left in pic) isn't as transparent as the other 2, it's more white-ish solid.


----------



## diwu13

Uhoh. Cloudy shrimp generally means bacterial infection and it could die. It does look that way in the picture too. You might have had a little spike somewhere down the line.

And yes, MTS are the way to go! I'd only get like 2-3. The snails WILL breed like crazy if you feed them. I'd pretty much feed the betta specifically, and drop in 2 pellets every other day for the shrimp and snails. No need to feed the snails extra. If you see them breeding a ton you should start removing some by hand, and cut down on feeding. If you have only a few MTS your rooted plants will be fine. The issue is when you first plant the plants and their roots aren't very long that the MTS can dig them up. But when the roots get going the MTS won't dig up your plants. Unless you have like 100 of them in there haha. Then even the pagoda might go!

I guess the only issue with the MTS would be that they'll mix the gravel and sand much faster.


----------



## xenxes

diwu13 said:


> Uhoh. Cloudy shrimp generally means bacterial infection and it could die. It does look that way in the picture too. You might have had a little spike somewhere down the line.
> 
> And yes, MTS are the way to go! I'd only get like 2-3. The snails WILL breed like crazy if you feed them. I'd pretty much feed the betta specifically, and drop in 2 pellets every other day for the shrimp and snails. No need to feed the snails extra. If you see them breeding a ton you should start removing some by hand, and cut down on feeding. If you have only a few MTS your rooted plants will be fine. The issue is when you first plant the plants and their roots aren't very long that the MTS can dig them up. But when the roots get going the MTS won't dig up your plants. Unless you have like 100 of them in there haha. Then even the pagoda might go!
> 
> I guess the only issue with the MTS would be that they'll mix the gravel and sand much faster.


Yikes, you're probably right. The water was cloudy one of the days (think I left too much food in the tank). I've been feeding less, doing more frequent changes and adding water conditioner and it's been clear since. Should I isolate or remove the shrimp, or wait and see?


----------



## diwu13

I would remove the shrimp... to the toilet :X. You don't want the ghost shrimp to die and the betta/other shrimp to eat it. Then they all might get a bacterial infection. You could wait as well, but then remove it as soon as it dies.

If you have paraguard, you could attempt to treat it. But I don't know how much ghost shrimp is worth near you but near me they are 10 cents each. So it's cheaper to let it die and then buy a new one :X


----------



## xenxes

Extremely  face. I don't want to flush it until I have to, keeping a close eye on it. It was looking slumpy and ready to kick the bucket last night, but is now flying around the tank again. It's also missing its front left pereopod, don't know when this happened.

I just picked up a new tank, will probably start a new thread and hopefully start cycling it soon.

Pics (Day +5)









Still all alive! Knock on wood.









Angry fish?


----------



## diwu13

Missing limbs is also pretty common in bacterial infected shrimps :[. Could also be from failed moltings. If a shrimp is healthy, after the next molt it's legs will return. Pretty cool! But if it's infected it will keep losing limbs as well.

Whoa, so that's a shot of a betta flaring? never saw that before!


----------



## Storm

Missing shrimp limbs could also be due to the betta nipping them. I don't think male bettas like tankmates. I had an Amano shrimp in my spec with the betta for a few weeks and even though he was huge he would still hide from the betta all day...


----------



## xenxes

diwu13 said:


> Missing limbs is also pretty common in bacterial infected shrimps :[. Could also be from failed moltings. If a shrimp is healthy, after the next molt it's legs will return. Pretty cool! But if it's infected it will keep losing limbs as well.
> 
> Whoa, so that's a shot of a betta flaring? never saw that before!


That shrimp kicked the bucket! You called it  turned completely white (some orange on the back), curled up, and looked like a cocktail shrimp. I fished it out as soon as I saw it and flushed it. Also did a 50% water change.

Yeah the Betta's been flaring at me a lot lately. I think it's cause I'm feeding it right after it flares, conditioned it to associate it with food. Or it's just angry. 

I yanked the anubias up out of the gravel, did not realize I wasn't supposed to bury the rhizome. It has a little algae growth, I'm leaving the light on only about 8 hrs a day now. Had it running 24/7 when I was out of town, oops! 

Heading to a LFS to pickup a few things now, more to come.

Pic (Day 7)


----------



## diwu13

Oh sorry about the anubias. I didn't pay close attention but I could've told you to unbury the rhizome :[. Those leek bulb things are getting TONS of growth!

How long were you out of town for?


----------



## Alaizabelle

I LOVE that shot of the betta flaring, he seems like a fun little guy


----------



## DerekFF

The aponogeton ulvaceus bulb can get HUGE in a hurry. It looks really cool though. Even in a low tech tank you may be looking at removing it in a few months because it will choke out everything else

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


----------



## xenxes

DerekFF said:


> The aponogeton ulvaceus bulb can get HUGE in a hurry. It looks really cool though. Even in a low tech tank you may be looking at removing it in a few months because it will choke out everything else
> 
> Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


The onions are growing rapidly. The aponogeton bulb just came out a little (you can see a little green tip in the pic). 



diwu13 said:


> Oh sorry about the anubias. I didn't pay close attention but I could've told you to unbury the rhizome :[. Those leek bulb things are getting TONS of growth!
> 
> How long were you out of town for?


2 days, not bad. Tiny brown growth on one leaf, another was worse and a little torn so I cut it off.

I could not find MTS at my LFS  but did grab some more tap water treatment liquids, they were really confusing. I grabbed a few:

*Aqueon Betta Bowl Plus* (got originally with the fish and been using) - it doesn't say ingredients, but "neutralizes chlorine, chloramines, amonia and heavy metals." Says to change 1/2 bowl of water weekly, but I guess it's for filterless bowls. It makes the water slightly blue, I guess it's used in the tiny boxes the Bettas are sold in.

*Tetra AquaSafe* - sodium hydroxymethane, sulfinate, chelating compounds, polyvinylpyrollidones, organic hydrocolloids. "Contains essential vitamins and minerals for healthy and clear water... neutralizes chlorine & heavy metals... slime colloids reduce stress in fish). Does not mention chloramine?

*Stress Coat* - no ingredients listed either. "Removes harmful chemicals from tap water...promote repair of damaged fish tissue with Aloe Vera."

*Melafix* - Melaleuca 1%, aka tea tree oil. Mild anti-fungal and anti-bacterial properties. I thought I'd take some precautionary measures in case parts of the infected shrimp was eaten. But this would probably also kill the good nitrate eating bacteria too? Also on the label.. "this product contains a chemical know to the State of California to cause cancer or birth defects or other reproductive harm." LOL.

In hindsight I should have asked/researched first, lol. I know I probably shouldn't mix a cocktail of everything and pour into the tank. What do you guys use for pico tanks?


----------



## diwu13

To be honest... I would return everything and get Seachem Prime as a water treatment option. Same effects as Aqueon it seems, but is the most used product from what I've seen. Also won't turn the water blue 

Not sure about Tetra and Melafix but Stress Coat contains tons of copper and will kill off any inverts in your tank. So that'll fix your fish alright... at the cost of any snails or shrimp you have in there.


----------



## xenxes

diwu13 said:


> To be honest... I would return everything and get Seachem Prime as a water treatment option. Same effects as Aqueon it seems, but is the most used product from what I've seen. Also won't turn the water blue
> 
> Not sure about Tetra and Melafix but Stress Coat contains tons of copper and will kill off any inverts in your tank. So that'll fix your fish alright... at the cost of any snails or shrimp you have in there.


Lol, I grabbed some Seachem off Amazon, probably not going to bother taking the other stuff back (this Stress Coat bottle says it's copper free). Also got some Betta flakes, he hates these, so they drop down for the shrimps (they also sometimes swim up to the surface to snatch them). Very cool to see pink flakes in transparent shrimps. Also, can't find MTS anywhere! Going to order online (min. order 100), don't know what I'll do with the extras...

Stringed the anubias nana to a river rock (took several minutes of cursing) so I could easily take it out to clear the algae in some H2O2 / camomile tea soak. I washed and rinsed thoroughly before putting it back in the tank.

The water has been slightly cloudly (or maybe it's just my imagination) and I've been doing 25-50% water changes every 2-3 days. 

Pics (Day 9)


















Ick, I need to clean my tank glass/camera lens. At first I thought his side fins looked damaged, but upon closer inspection of the original size photo most of it is transparent.

After a trip to 2 LFS and looking at their $20-90 premium Bettas, I still think mine is the prettiest


----------



## diwu13

Stress coat is definitely known to kill inverts so I would be very very careful in using it.

Don't order 100 MTS! Post in the "Swap and Shop" here, I can guarantee you can buy 10, even 5 for only the price of shipping if you ask nicely . I know I would send you some for shipping if I had any of those.

I really like your betta too. Colors kinda remind me of a sunset.


----------



## diwu13

Oh yea, you can also super glue plants onto rocks next time! It'll save you a lot of effort! Super glue is safe in fish tanks too :O


----------



## acitydweller

gorgeous setup! im or rather my betta is having a hard time in the tank because the water pump at the lowest setting is still too powerful.


----------



## xenxes

acitydweller said:


> gorgeous setup! im or rather my betta is having a hard time in the tank because the water pump at the lowest setting is still too powerful.


I stuffed a small piece of cotton in the tube (made it big enough around the ring of the hose so it doesn't get blown into the black connector). The fish doesn't get blown around but there's still enough flow.

So, today, I noticed my larger ghost shrimp attacking my Betta. It clawed onto its tail fins twice and was taken for a ride. The fish kept running away. Don't know if the ghost shrimp was just hungry or if it was a macro.

Decided to take a longer trip to a farther LFS today. Picked up 3 cherry shrimps (3 for $10, not a good deal), a mystery snail, some HC, and Riccia (still can't find MTS! waiting on a few PMs). 

I removed the 2 ghost shrimps and added 3 cherry shrimps (BAD IDEA). The smallest shrimp either jumped tank or got eaten within the first minute, I simply couldn't find it after it went in. The largest shrimp (not entirely red, somewhat translucent) was chased to death by the Betta, it got on its back, got up again, is now on its back again, pretty sure it's perma-dead. 

I thought my Betta was really mellow since it never showed any interest in the ghosts, even when they attacked him (he just ran away). The last cherry shrimp is hiding under the Anubias rhizome. Bah  I just wanted some bottom feeders / algae eaters that wouldn't attack the fish. Will wait on the MTS.

Also not sure why I got the snail, he's too big to fit on the Anubias nana. I guess I'll have to get some algae wafers for him.

Pic (Day 10)









snail finally came out of its shell









Planted some HC to replace the Aponogeton. 

Holding onto the extra HC, bulbs, Riccia for my 2nd tank. Waiting to find that perfect piece of drift wood to make a moss tree before I start.


----------



## diwu13

Wow, tons of bad luck on the shrimp. I thought you betta would leave the shrimps alone too but it seems red just made them too easy of prey. You might have had a macrobrachium shrimp as well since it was attacking the betta.

I really like the algae shell covered snail. Looks really cool. Looks like an apple snail though, if so, just don't let the eggs hatch or you'll have too many snails on your hand. I think your best bet for an algae eater would be a nerite snail. Can't breed in freshwater and isn't a shrimp .

And dang, can't even see the tips of the bulbs anymore!


----------



## xenxes

diwu13 said:


> Wow, tons of bad luck on the shrimp. I thought you betta would leave the shrimps alone too but it seems red just made them too easy of prey. You might have had a macrobrachium shrimp as well since it was attacking the betta.
> 
> I really like the algae shell covered snail. Looks really cool. Looks like an apple snail though, if so, just don't let the eggs hatch or you'll have too many snails on your hand. I think your best bet for an algae eater would be a nerite snail. Can't breed in freshwater and isn't a shrimp .
> 
> And dang, can't even see the tips of the bulbs anymore!


LFS said this was a pearl mystery snail that does not eat plants. Hoping they're right. It crawled its way up my water intake area and is settling in there. Pretty cool. 

I may grab a couple more (real) ghost shrimp later to clean the substrate, they were very efficient cleaners, macro or not. I think it only attached on the Betta because it was starving (stomach was entirely clear). I was waiting to see if they ate algae, guess I should keep them fed. 

The red cherries came with some baby shrimps too. I just saw the Betta swallow one and spit it out, then swallowed it again and spat it out, looks like it's dead. They sure die easily... what about the Betta's mouth kills them so quickly?!

I'm fishing out the remaining cherry and setting it in a bowl with some vegetation. I think I'll start a RCS tank. Definitely is the red color (even if just a spec of color) that draws the fish to attack. RCS also LOVE to jump (one kept getting stuck to my lid).


----------



## diwu13

Still, that shell is awesome on that mystery snail ! Too bad it can't eat algae off it's own shell lol.

Ghost shrimp aren't really known as the best shrimp algae eaters. Those would have to go to amano shrimp if you have some at your LFS. Those shrimp are THE algae eating KINGS! They don't breed in freshwater though :\.

Do betta's have teeth or something of that sort in their mouth? RCS will jump if they feel threatened, as will amanos and ghost shrimp. RCS are definitely great to begin with if you like to keep shrimp. Very easy and pretty hard to kill (unless your betta has anything to do with it).


----------



## xenxes

diwu13 said:


> Still, that shell is awesome on that mystery snail ! Too bad it can't eat algae off it's own shell lol.
> 
> Ghost shrimp aren't really known as the best shrimp algae eaters. Those would have to go to amano shrimp if you have some at your LFS. Those shrimp are THE algae eating KINGS! They don't breed in freshwater though :\.
> 
> Do betta's have teeth or something of that sort in their mouth? RCS will jump if they feel threatened, as will amanos and ghost shrimp. RCS are definitely great to begin with if you like to keep shrimp. Very easy and pretty hard to kill (unless your betta has anything to do with it).


Haha I just saw a close up of that photo, that's a lot of algae! I don't have that much algae in the tank, a few spots on the anubias but that's it so far. I thought I'd take preventive measures with a bottom feeder that also eats algae. RCS seemed perfect, but won't play nice with the Betta. 

I threw the "ghosts" back in the tank to clean the bottom. The couple picked through half the cherry shrimp carcass, ate the baby carcasses, and a few pellets that fell to the bottom in the past hour. Amanos require min. 10 gal, I may try a few in my 9 gallon if the RCS don't pan out.

I just read this:

The jaws of an adult Betta are as impressive or even more impressive than the jaw of a giant White Shark! The lower jaw of a Betta has sharp shredding teeth, which can tear of body of brine shrimps, worms, mosquito larvae and other such water organisms. A study reveals that on proportionate basis to the body size, Betta jaws are bigger and stronger than those of a White Shark.​
Crazy! Poor RCS didn't stand a chance.  I need to get a separation container thing to test new critters before adding them in.


----------



## diwu13

Hm... I could've sworn people here have 1-2 amano shrimp in tanks less than 10 gallons. They poop a ton, but that's the only issue. It's not like they grow that large or anything. I see no reason why you couldn't get 1 in there with any issues ? Then maybe a nerite snail if that mystery snail doesn't do it's job. Or a nerite snail to clean your mystery snail if it does do it's job LOL.

Wow, that totally explains why the baby RCS got destroyed ._.! Next time drop in one shrimp at a time haha. But the bright red coloring must've killed them or the betta should also show aggression towards the ghost shrimp as well.


----------



## epiphany

The only thing with amanos is the size may attract the beta to them more than the ghost just because they'll be a lot easier to see. And they don't exactly stay that small either, they grow to 2" long which may end up looking huge in a tank that small.


----------



## diwu13

Yeah but hopefully they'll blend in with the pagoda since they're sandy colored. Not sure if the betta will attack something as large at itself. But they are fighting fish so :icon_ques


----------



## xenxes

diwu13 said:


> Yeah but hopefully they'll blend in with the pagoda since they're sandy colored. Not sure if the betta will attack something as large at itself. But they are fighting fish so :icon_ques


Some good news, I found the smallest RCS on the bottom of my tank happily eating fish poo. I took it out and put it with the other. Yay! Only 1 died. What provoked the Betta to hunt was the hyperactivity + redness of the largest RCS. 

Saw something peculiar, my "pearl mystery" snail was nomming on the RCS carcass last night, this morning most of it was gone. It hasn't harmed any of my plants, so that's good. It also ate the fish poo the shrimp wouldn't eat (I put the ghosts back in to clean the bottom, will keep a close eye)

Pics (Day 11)









...ingonyama bagithi baba~... It's the circle of life, and it moves us all~... 









closeup of ghost, I don't think its front pereopods are long enough to be a macro, it's becoming a little less clear and growing some stripes however









today's tank shot


----------



## diwu13

At first I thought a marimo ball was on top of the dead shrimp. Then I realized it was the snail haha.

That second shrimp does look a lot like a macro. If it goes over 1.5" it is like 99% a macrobrachium, so watch out!

How far up did the bulbs grow? I also don't see any of the blue gravel anymore. Did you pick out the ones on the surface?


----------



## xenxes

diwu13 said:


> At first I thought a marimo ball was on top of the dead shrimp. Then I realized it was the snail haha.
> 
> That second shrimp does look a lot like a macro. If it goes over 1.5" it is like 99% a macrobrachium, so watch out!
> 
> How far up did the bulbs grow? I also don't see any of the blue gravel anymore. Did you pick out the ones on the surface?


Lol there's still a mixture of blue/black on the bottom inch, the top inch is all Tahitian moon sand. I had 3 inches before which was overkill, removed some mixture. The water onions are almost at the top of the tank (maybe 1/2" away from the water surface), but the first shoot stopped growing there so I left it. Seconds one are coming out. 

I have water lilly, aponogeton bulbs in a tupperware beginning to sprout, too ugly for pics right now. Riccia moss, HC are temporarily housed with the 2 RCS + 1 or 2 babies I saw.

Btw, the Betta ate ALL my duckweed (I had a few patches on the top), and has been pooping A LOT. Must be good fiber.


----------



## diwu13

So did you remove the blue gravel that was above the sand? There used to be a lot from the previous pictures but now it's all gone!

You should grow out more duckweed! Those things multiply really fast and I assume it's gonna be pretty healthy for the betta haha.


----------



## xenxes

diwu13 said:


> So did you remove the blue gravel that was above the sand? There used to be a lot from the previous pictures but now it's all gone!
> 
> You should grow out more duckweed! Those things multiply really fast and I assume it's gonna be pretty healthy for the betta haha.


Yeah I did, I removed 2 inches and just poured down another inch of sand over the top. The blue specs looked fine, in time some might resurface. I thought the plants might root better if there's large & small pieces mixed in (kind of like soil & perlite?). I have a little bit of duckweed in another container, going to let it multiply a little.

Just walked by the tank and saw the Betta bite off the larger shrimp's front left pereopod. I think those black/white stripes are making it easier to see. If it gets eaten so be it. I'm not about to put it with my cherries. The snail makes a better substrate cleaner anyway, even sucks up poo!


----------



## diwu13

So how'd you suck out some of the substrate? Did you take everything out of the tank then put everything back in?

Yea betta! Show that macrobrachium who's boss. I think shrimp can regain lost limbs during their next molt. So that'll be interesting to see! You should definitely get a nerite snail then !


----------



## xenxes

diwu13 said:


> So how'd you suck out some of the substrate? Did you take everything out of the tank then put everything back in?
> 
> Yea betta! Show that macrobrachium who's boss. I think shrimp can regain lost limbs during their next molt. So that'll be interesting to see! You should definitely get a nerite snail then !


I took everything out so I could plant the bits of HC. The aponogeton would have taken too much room in the front. The shrimp just molted, that's why it attracted the fish. I've been asking after a Nerite too, none of my 3 local LFS carry it either. It's actually very cheap to order online 10 for $10 on eBay, but I don't know what I'd do with the extras, or if they'll be actual Nerites. Petco is supposed to have them, guess I'll wait and check next week.

Pics (Day 13)









One-claw. Wonder how long it'll take the other pereopod to grow back, I think I see the tip already?









Riccia @ top of tank infront of filter. I was tired of food getting sucked in there right away. These trap the flakes, and the shrimp come up to eat them.


----------



## xenxes

So I've been really stupid and wondering why water was turning cloudy again AFTER the tank cycled. It was because I rinsed the entire foam + carbon + biomedia thoroughly in tap water each time I did a water change! 

Word to the other newbies, only rinse your filter with tank water if you want to keep the beneficial bacteria. You also don't need to change the biomax media unless they start to break apart (~10 years). The carbon filter should be changed, but probably not as often as it says on the box. 

I stopped being OCD and left the filter / tank alone for a few days and water has cleared up (guess it cycled again), everything still alive. Latest tank pics added in previous post.

Here's a pic of one of the surviving rcs still in tupperware (under my Aerogarden light) living off Riccia microfilm/algae, female I presume:


----------



## Ozydego

yeah, I used to do that for the longest time, never thought anything about it until I learned about a true "biofilter" Doh! Oh well, the substrate and plants and things also have BB, so hopefully the cycle will be fairly short. I admit, after seeing your betta house I started looking and found it at Petsmart, I bought one as well and that first night my betta found his new home, sorry for hijacking your creativity, but as soon as I saw it I knew it would work for me as well... helps Fred the betta get out of the current...


----------



## Msouza91

What kind of substrate you using? thinking about switching from gravel. Also I like the contrast of the betta from the rest of the tank!


----------



## diwu13

Yea you definitely shouldn't rinse out all those places as 99% of the bacteria will be growing there. You can rinse out your filter insert every once in a while as it starts to clog, but when you do rinse those don't do a WC.

Also, if you're having issues with food getting sucked up into the filter use one of these : http://www.petco.com/product/10900/NutraFin-Max-Feeding-Ring.aspx I use these in my tanks too, just so the shrimp know where to come up for food. It costs like $4, or you can make your own with a shower curtain plastic ring and a suction cup


----------



## xenxes

Ozydego said:


> yeah, I used to do that for the longest time, never thought anything about it until I learned about a true "biofilter" Doh! Oh well, the substrate and plants and things also have BB, so hopefully the cycle will be fairly short. I admit, after seeing your betta house I started looking and found it at Petsmart, I bought one as well and that first night my betta found his new home, sorry for hijacking your creativity, but as soon as I saw it I knew it would work for me as well... helps Fred the betta get out of the current...


Lol I got the pagoda at Petsmart too, it's pretty common. And "creativity" is meant to be shared  My Betta swam through it a few times at first but doesn't use it, he likes to follow me when I move around the room, only the shrimp go in to molt. 

I had no idea bacteria lived in those white porous tablets, I thought it was just something to kick start your substrate bacteria. Ohwell, live and learn. 

I want to see a picture of Fred! I have yet to name my Betta.




Msouza91 said:


> What kind of substrate you using? thinking about switching from gravel. Also I like the contrast of the betta from the rest of the tank!


Using Tahitian moon sand on top layer and mixture of the sand & generic blue gravel on bottom found @ Petsmart, no idea what I was doing so first two things I grabbed. I hear most people recommend Eco Complete. 




diwu13 said:


> Yea you definitely shouldn't rinse out all those places as 99% of the bacteria will be growing there. You can rinse out your filter insert every once in a while as it starts to clog, but when you do rinse those don't do a WC.
> 
> Also, if you're having issues with food getting sucked up into the filter use one of these : http://www.petco.com/product/10900/NutraFin-Max-Feeding-Ring.aspx I use these in my tanks too, just so the shrimp know where to come up for food. It costs like $4, or you can make your own with a shower curtain plastic ring and a suction cup


That ring is very cool! I'm going to get one. Also got Seachem dechlorinator per your recommendation, and have Frogbits, Duckweed, & MTS on their way in the mail. 

Can't help myself:

Pics (Day 14)









Shrimps eating algae off the snail shell, or just along for a ride? not sure.









Closeup Betta scales. I think his fins look healthier than when I got him?


----------



## diwu13

Ew duckweed ! That stuff may get out of hand easily haha. Since it's like "o" small. Frogbit is really nice though! And seachem prime will definitely help with your water dechlorination, and if you have a small ammonia spike it'll handle that as well!

I hope the shrimp don't clean out that shell, or attempt to eat that snail . Since you're getting MTS already you don't really need nerites, especially 10 of them haha. 

His like "hand" fin isn't ripped right? That's just the camera again making it seem as if it is?


----------



## xenxes

diwu13 said:


> His like "hand" fin isn't ripped right? That's just the camera again making it seem as if it is?


Nah it's round and shapely, just the outer rim is transparent and camera can't catch it. You can sort of see it if you enlarge the photo.

Duckweed mainly to supplement his diet, he likes to eat it. Will probably keep most in a separate container so he doesn't eat it all.


----------



## Ozydego

I have had Fred through a lot of different bowls and tanks, this is his biggest yet, 5 gallon and he shares it with 5 espei rashoras, 4 blueberry shrimp and 4 cherry shrimp... My wife snapped a pic of Fred hanging out in his house this evening, and I also included his profile pic


----------



## xenxes

Ozydego said:


> I have had Fred through a lot of different bowls and tanks, this is his biggest yet, 5 gallon and he shares it with 5 espei rashoras, 4 blueberry shrimp and 4 cherry shrimp... My wife snapped a pic of Fred hanging out in his house this evening, and I also included his profile pic


That's awesome! Are those 2 water onions I spot? He must be very mellow if he's fine with 4 fish and 8 shrimp! Mine was mellow at first, now he goes after the shrimps quite a bit (test RCS died, 1 ghost missing a limb).

You caught me in the middle of posting, I just got the duckweed & frogbits in the mail now, washed them, put some in, and took some pics! Floaters are so cool.

Also dosed some Excel and Aquafin Cycle (came in the mail too).

Pics (Day 15)









May have to remove some duckweed... The frogbits cover up the anubias just right.









Leftovers...









Had to get a closeup of this... yum!


----------



## diwu13

That is healthy looking frogbit. Whats that cycle thing you bought? Speeds up the cycling process or something?


----------



## xenxes

diwu13 said:


> That is healthy looking frogbit. Whats that cycle thing you bought? Speeds up the cycling process or something?


Healthy after I tore off the brown/dead lower leaves and roots 

Sorry, Nutrafin Cycle, the Fluval Spec instruction book said to get some. It's live beneficial bacterial culture (2 year shelf life though). I thought I'd jump start it again after tap-watering my entire filter. I should have bought the smaller 4 oz though.

Btw, I can see why you warned me about duckweed. Stuff gets everywhere and sticks to my fingers, ick!


----------



## diwu13

Oh man. I used nutrafin cycle before too. I mean it did speed up my cycle (but I also seeded from a preexisting tank so not sure what really contributed more) but it raises yours TDS in your tank like crazy. Not that big of an issue for a betta but for shrimps it means certain death when my TDS was upwards of 600 :\. I would use it sparingly. Like during a large WC or what not. But if you change only 10-15% no need to use it.

And the shelf life screwed me over too. I bought like a 500mL jug and almost all of it will expire this March 

Duckweed are aquarium herpes . It might get sucked into your filter too.


----------



## Ozydego

I have to agree with the cycle helpers... some have called them snake oil.... I used it at first, but it didnt speed up my cycle, my advice after using it is not to, I felt like I wasted my money.... Do you have a testing kit?? That will be much more of a helper, I use and recommend the API master test kit... $30 at Petsmart but it will last years, vs. the test strips which arent as accurate and way expensive. Use the test kit to monitor the water parameters and if the ammonia and nitrites get high, do a partial water change (PWC). The cycle will happen, but water changes during the cycle will be what keeps your stock healthy... 

In mine, one is a very small Jungle Val runner and the other larger in the back is Dwarf Sag, once the Jungle Val grows, I will prolly remove it, the leaves can get 4 feet long on jungle Val.... I really like the floaters, but have had so so results with stuff from the LFS. Fred is super Mellow, I tried neons before even though the tank was too small and he ignored them, so I tried shrimp, same, so now fish and shrimp and Fred just does his own thing... its also REALLY rare if he ever flares, even at his reflection in the glass... tell the truth, I kinda miss the flares as I have had with other Betttas


----------



## xenxes

Yikes. No I only used disposable strips (they were expensive too). Just grabbed the master kit on Amazon for $23, thanks for the suggestion.

I had set up a planted bowl last night out of a 0.5 gallon glass jar shaped like a pumpkin, this morning I walked into the kitchen and it was shattered on the floor -- glass, sand and HC everywhere 

/kills cat


----------



## diwu13

Actually, might not even be your cat's fault. A lot of people bought this really popular Michael's bowl, but it's not meant for water. So what happens is that the glass is so thin that it breaks randomly when filled with water :\


----------



## Ozydego

ouch... cats are always the issue... I come in every now and then to my one cat drinking out of the 5 gallon... she thinks its a fancy water bowl with entertainment...


----------



## CorrinaCorrina

Hey there! I love the style of your tank! I have a spec coming in the mail this afternoon and have been stalking the forum to get setup ideas  I love your black sand and pagoda, you may see it come up in my future posts! I usually go for super natural, but both of your beta and Frank seem to like hanging out in there, so I may as well give it whirl! Keep us posted with your floaters, and if they get out of hand, you can always do a RAOK in the SnS to get rid of some


----------



## CorrinaCorrina

Ozydego said:


> ouch... cats are always the issue... I come in every now and then to my one cat drinking out of the 5 gallon... she thinks its a fancy water bowl with entertainment...


HAHAHAHAHA! :icon_lol: Thankfully my 2 cats stay away from the big tank! couldn't help but laugh out loud at that!


----------



## xenxes

Ozy - I have a water fountain for my cat with running water, so he leaves the bowls and tanks alone.

diwu - The glass was very thick (3/4"). The cat has to explore new items. It was my fault, I should have put him up there and pressed his nose against it until he got bored. Reverse psychology works wonders on him. Instead I fortified it with wine bottles all around, so the only way he could get on it was to jump on top of it (5 feet from the ground), and it slipped out from underneath his weight (fat and agile little bastard). 

Corrina - TY . What kind of MTS problems are you having? Malaysian trumpet snail infestation right? They self regulate the population, so there might be too much food in the tank. Still figuring out acronyms. I just got some in the mail today from (TY Plant keeper!)

Re the duckweed, I added a little too much in there, so I took a sheet of saran wrap and pressed it lightly to the surface of the water, maybe 90% of all the duckweed stuck to it, then I threw it out. RAOK is a good idea, I'll grab some small zip lock bags once the frogbits populate. Anyone need duck weed right now? lol.


----------



## diwu13

Post some up in the SnS. Maybe just charge shipping haha.


----------



## xenxes

Well, solved my extra duckweed problem.

Anyone want a free cat? Contemplating throwing him off my 35th floor balcony. 

He just pushed / knocked over my big duckweed tupperware (was sitting in middle of a big table). Splattered weed all over the wall and carpet. Don't know what's wrong with him, must be getting jealous of the attention to the new plants. Thank god for a steam-vac, but the wall is looking awfully green.

/hate cats.


----------



## acitydweller

maybe he didnt care for the duckweed flavored water. lol


----------



## diwu13

You know, you could probably take the duckweed outta the vac and it'll grow just fine...


----------



## xenxes

acitydweller said:


> maybe he didnt care for the duckweed flavored water. lol


Think you're right, I spot duckweed on his head. He got wet this time so maybe he won't do it again :frown:









He knows he did something wrong, hunkered over belly up like a dog when I scowled at him, *sigh* /pet kitty.



diwu13 said:


> You know, you could probably take the duckweed outta the vac and it'll grow just fine...


Still have a handful or so, didn't want to pick it out with all the carpet & cat hair :/


----------



## CorrinaCorrina

My MTS is not the snails... it is the Multiple Tank Syndrome... Ha! But thanks for the advice about the snails!


----------



## xenxes

Sorry for the constant updates  fiance out of town this weekend and I've nothing better to do.

Got 10 MTS in the mail last night (TY Plant keeper), threw 3 in the Spec. They burrowed right away and kicked up a few HC which I replanted.

I applied a drop or two of Nutrafin cycle directly to the filter. Also been doing low doses of Excel (1-2 drops a day from an eye dropper). I know it kills Riccia but I think low concentrations just halt growth. Trimmed 2 onions (grew out of the tank!)

Stopped feeding the shrimps and snails. The ghosts are eating off the dead plant matter (they love frogbits roots, cleared away all the brown), while the snails eat everyone's poo. Clean tank!

Pics (Day 16)


----------



## Ozydego

never knew that about excel and riccia... that would explain the really stringy riccia that I had rather than the fatter greener normal growth.... I just started a new excel regiment... I think its time to take the riccia rock out of the mix. Something about this tank is just really nice... zen-ish.... I think it has to do with the moon sand and great sparse placement of the plants. The pagoda helps too


----------



## xenxes

Ozydego said:


> never knew that about excel and riccia... that would explain the really stringy riccia that I had rather than the fatter greener normal growth.... I just started a new excel regiment... I think its time to take the riccia rock out of the mix. Something about this tank is just really nice... zen-ish.... I think it has to do with the moon sand and great sparse placement of the plants. The pagoda helps too


Excel works as a selective herbicide, _kills all things without stomata_, i.e. liverworts (Riccia, Pellia, Porella etc).

It works great for HC in small tanks, as well as mosses. I think I'll move my Riccia out too and replace with some moss when it gets here. And TY for the compliment  I still can't quite get it the way I want to but I think I just need a bigger tank.


----------



## diwu13

I guess low doses of excel are OK. The ricca in my tank seems to be growing pretty well but I dose 1/2 the amount, only twice a week. So it's 11% the recommended weekly dosage haha. I'll see when I get more ricca, but I don't have a lot so it's a bit hard to tell.

You might continue having issues with the HC being dug up with the MTS. Good way to see if you over feed is if you start seeing a ton of MTS. Controlled feeding will keep the MTS population low!


----------



## xenxes

The Anubias has been getting brown spots (think Algae) and fading a little yellow. Only been dosing Excel for 2-3 days (did a double dose today), is there something else I can do or should I just wait? Should I try a fertilizer like Leaf Zone?

Also, what is the difference between Seachem Flourish Excel and regular Flourish? Think Excel is the carbon and regular Flourish the fertilizer? :icon_ques

Been reading a lot but still uncertain, at least I know to avoid regular liquid fertilizer or the tabs that came with my Aerogarden (contains ammonium nitrate/phosphate)


----------



## diwu13

I wouldn't get Leaf Zone. I'm using it but I would prefer something with both macros and micros like Seachem Flourish. Leaf zone only contains very few minerals and isn't super useful in my opinion.



xenxes said:


> Also, what is the difference between Seachem Flourish Excel and regular Flourish? Think Excel is the carbon and regular Flourish the fertilizer? :icon_ques


This is exactly correct. Excel provides a source of organic carbon, much like CO2 dosing, whereas Flourish provides micro and macro ferts. Many people use both at once. However, make sure you go easy on the Excel as it can kill shrimps. I dose 1/2 the strength twice a week instead of the directed daily dose. No problems with shrimp.


----------



## xenxes

diwu13 said:


> I wouldn't get Leaf Zone. I'm using it but I would prefer something with both macros and micros like Seachem Flourish. Leaf zone only contains very few minerals and isn't super useful in my opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> This is exactly correct. Excel provides a source of organic carbon, much like CO2 dosing, whereas Flourish provides micro and macro ferts. Many people use both at once. However, make sure you go easy on the Excel as it can kill shrimps. I dose 1/2 the strength twice a week instead of the directed daily dose. No problems with shrimp.


Thx I picked up the Flourish to give a little boost. Only plan to do the daily routine with Excel until I get rid of the algae.


----------



## diwu13

I'd underdose with the excel even if you're trying to fight algae. Blacking out the tank for 2-3 days would also help!


----------



## xenxes

You know, I just realized I have no nutrients in my substrate. It's basically sand on artificial gravel. How are plants even growing? The HC planted in its old medium is fine, but new ones are dying off; the onions I don't know, energy from the bulb? 

And would fertilizing even do anything, since they'll just sit in the water column and probably won't penetrate the sand (maybe the MTS helps here)?

Have half a mind to pull everything out and redo with some Fluval plant stratum or Eco-Complete, or dirt on the bottom.


----------



## diwu13

Aquatic plants can absorb nutrients through their leaves as well. Though it's minimal compared to the roots. Since you're dosing the water column I presume it would travel down slowly into your substrate. And the MTS would definitely help.

Since you bought a lot of ferts already you could go with flourite black as a cheaper option. Of course buying the plant stratum or eco-complete would provide more nutrients, so it's up to you!


----------



## Ozydego

I am using regular playsand, but I placed some seachem root tabs broken up down in the substrate, the growth is probably a lot slower than with a nutrient soil, but also a LOT cheaper and I feel like I accomplished something... The nutrient soil almost seems too easy, but don't get me wrong, if I had a supply I would be using it right now!


----------



## xenxes

Maybe I should have gotten some tablets instead of the liquid ~ 40 tabs are $20 on Amazon.

I have some old Aerogarden nutrient tablets lying around, but can't find the ingredients online, probably has nitrates.


----------



## xenxes

Few updates:
- saw a blood worm in my tupperware plant bowl, gross; couldn't catch it
- frogbits in bowl dying off / turning brown; moved to tupperware & spec (seems shrimp & snails help)
- removed all riccia / but left some duckweed in filter area
- no improvement to anubias nana
- have not changed water in 4 days! fighting my OCD

Pics (Day 18)









overload on frogbits, taking up back half of tank, I actually like the long roots (shrimps and snails find food on the underside)









large shrimp's left claw grew back, it's tiny; white/gold stripes on back & tail becoming prominent









anubias still browning/yellowing, on 2-3 leaves now; been using Excel & cutting back on light


----------



## diwu13

Shrimp and snail LOVE to hang out around the roots of frogbit. They do a great job shading the other plants as well. I think your frogbit died due to lag of current/water movement.

Why aren't you doing WC's again?

What did you do with all that ricca? I hope you didn't chuck it?


----------



## xenxes

I think I killed the cycle by tap watering the filter so I'm waiting a week, also read somewhere if I do too frequent a change I'm feeding the algae? Waiting for my master kit which should be here tomorrow or Wed, ran out of strips :/

Riccia went in another container with duckweed, the batch wasn't looking good (think Excel poisoned it).

Should I just take the anubias out and dump it in a H2O2 dip? But when I put it back it'll get infested again? That *is* algae right?


----------



## Ozydego

The Anubias almost looks like those 2-3 leaves are melting slightly, the others look good. Water changes are not bad as long as you use prime. I guess somewhere some could say that frequent changes could encourage algae because of the constant inflow of new minerals, but it may have been more if you had an algae bloom, the frequent wc's don't help... if the ammo trites and trates are in check, no need for the wc, but right now to be safe, a 10% a day would not be harmful.

Just noticed your snail has grown a LOT... You can see where his shell changed from the new environment and wasn't growing algae anymore... Kinda cool


----------



## diwu13

Yea what Ozy said, you can do small WC's and it'll still be fine. 



Ozydego said:


> Just noticed your snail has grown a LOT... You can see where his shell changed from the new environment and wasn't growing algae anymore... Kinda cool


And I noticed that too! Nice observation! Very cool !

And if it is indeed algae on anubias, the leaves are so slick that you can rub the algae off with your thumb. Talk about a green thumb roud:! If you can't rub it off it could be something else then.


----------



## xenxes

A couple leaves did melt off, I took it out for a rinse in a mixture of H2O2 & chamomile tea (what I use for gardening anti-fungus/algae), and one of the leaves just fell off. Nutrient deficiency or too much light? No idea 

Lol I didn't notice the snail shell clearing up. Good eye! Closer pic:









nomming on frogbits

vs. 1 week ago:









vultures


----------



## diwu13

Seems the algae got picked off more than the snail growing now that you took a close up. You have a pretty darn good camera as well


----------



## xenxes

Got a new snail today. I think the shrimp has been nipping @ the Betta's tail fin, they look torn  

Guess I didn't feed them enough. Will throw them in the community tank later, hope they don't eat my cherries.

Some new pics:









FTS 1/14









Torn fins









Evil shrimp, large one measures exactly 1" now









New snail, blue mystery


----------



## diwu13

Where's the original snail? I don't see it in there .

And the evil ghost shrimp will eat those poor cherries when it feels like it


----------



## xenxes

Original snail & another pearl mystery is in a new 20g  Took some pics but water is pretty cloudy still. Don't know what to do with ghosts, maybe I need another tank.

Anubias is melting b/c it was grown emersed (Petsmart/co). Will wait and see.


----------



## xenxes

Just one pic today:









hoping this shrimp is actually a ghost shrimp, never touched the betta, the substrate is really nasty, and there's air bubbles in the 2nd layer, I should get more MTS and plant more heavily...


----------



## diwu13

Ew... air bubbles  At least it's not full of tuviflex or anything.


----------



## sayurasem

diwu13 said:


> Ew... air bubbles  At least it's not full of tuviflex or anything.


my substrate has many ait pockets visible from all sides... is that bad?


----------



## Ozydego

At first, no, it is just trapped air, slow flooding of the substrate helps minimize this, but usually air gets trapped, if the air develops over time it could be another issue, if the bubbles get bigger rather than smaller, might be worth it to take the fauna out and stir up the substrate, do a pwc and then reintroduce the animals... It may not be the toxic gas, as from what I heard that takes a LONG time to build up, but better to be safe than sorry, some use wood skewers to help get the trapped air out by making paths for its escape


----------



## Msouza91

I have the same shrimp as yours! I got 5 of them at petco and 3 of them have the red lines on the legs and antennas. Are they really ghost shrimp?


----------



## xenxes

Msouza91 said:


> I have the same shrimp as yours! I got 5 of them at petco and 3 of them have the red lines on the legs and antennas. Are they really ghost shrimp?


You really can't tell 

I would keep a close eye, if any snap/claw at your fish, I would remove them. I left my big one in too long and it torn a big chunk out of the betta's tail fin. I didn't flush it, it's sitting in the community tank collecting fallen fish food. I still like to keep some because they're faster @ cleaning the substrate than cherries and snails.


----------



## xenxes

Got tired of the melting Anubias from Petsmart, planted some Ludwigia Arcuata, they probably won't do too well with the light from the tank, we'll see.


----------



## alfalfa

Your betta might be flaring because he sees his own reflection in the glass. This is most likely to happen when the room is dark while the tank light is on, just like when we are home at night with the lights on — windows become mirrors. We see ourselves instead of being able to look outside. I can't tell from still images, and I'm probably assuming too much about his behavior, but it looks like he sees himself, charges the glass, and stares at it (flaring or not).


----------



## xenxes

He saw the female betta in the vase next to the tank, and immediately began construction. Too bad I destroy the nest with each water change.


----------



## diwu13

So I was always wondering, are those bubbles firm-ish to the touch?


----------



## Ozydego

They feel like normal bubbles, just slimier so they don't pop... It is amazing that they last so long


----------



## xenxes

Moved the tank to make room for my 9g, now sitting on a bedroom shelf. Plant clippings look like they rooted.


----------



## atom

We have the same taste in tanks. I just picked up a SPEC last week after my eheim. 

This looks very zen. Nice colours.

Btw, I thought my mellow Betta could live with my dwarf orange cray because he left the amanos alone, but I think they are attracted to bright colours. Not only did he attack the crays it attacked back and tore his fins. Not surprised the cherries didn't make it. 

Are you running the filter with any other mods? I'm still trying to reduce the flow.


----------



## xenxes

Thanks, I wanted to do vertical dimensions but figured a flat surface would give the betta more swimming room. I could pickup a pair of amanos for this, he never attacked the ghost shrimps. 

No other mods. Padding the intake area seem to slow down the flow. I added an extra charcoal layer below the sponge. A lot of people cut slits into the tubing in the pump area, it also creates some movement in that compartment, recommended if you have a heater there.


----------



## Msouza91

xenxes said:


> You really can't tell
> 
> I would keep a close eye, if any snap/claw at your fish, I would remove them. I left my big one in too long and it torn a big chunk out of the betta's tail fin. I didn't flush it, it's sitting in the community tank collecting fallen fish food. I still like to keep some because they're faster @ cleaning the substrate than cherries and snails.


Yea they "were" my best cleaners.. But unfortunately my betta ate them all from the juvie to my mature shrimp.. Oh well though gives me better reasons not to put my cheers in there


----------



## biogenetic40379

Nice setup man, i am getting a fluval spec tomorrow from a trade on craigslist. Dunno if i will start a journal up for it though


----------



## xenxes

Thx, you should definitely start a journal 

FTS update, turned into jungle:


----------



## diwu13

That evil ghost shrimp die yet?


----------



## xenxes

No, very much alive... snacking on ponds and ramhorns in the 9g :/ It scares me.


----------



## atom

Ghost shrimp can eat snails? That's creepy. 

How are your plants doing under the stock light and one betta? Do you dose?


----------



## xenxes

Plants are all thriving, the red ones won't turn red though due to low light. I dosed Excel maybe 1-2 weeks ago, I don't really remember to dose anything. No ferts yet, just dirt. 

I do squeeze in a drop of Superthrive in all of my tanks when I start them / do a large wc, still have a quart lying around from a while ago. It's just vitamins that help my garden plants root better, don't see why it wouldn't work for aquarium plants too. No adverse effects on fauna that I can tell.


----------



## biogenetic40379

i dunno what direction i want to take mine in, but i am seriously considering a journal. how much light does the LED put off? I might just put a crypt in it


----------



## xenxes

Not sure, but not enough  I think the indirect daylight in my room helps the plant growth. People here recommend the Fluval 13w, it's expensive right now but usually falls around $24-25.

Here's a pic of my poor female betta in a 1/2g medicated vase (until her 2g planted stabilizes). This was the impulse-buy/rescue, her fins were damaged but they're healing nicely. Her water is kept pristine, I add 1 drop of Melafix (tea tree oil) and 2 drops of Stress Coat with each w/c, keep an IAL on the bottom, and vacuum poo religiously.


----------



## xenxes

So that blue mystery died mysteriously. 

Maybe it wasn't so mysterious. I guess its diet of fish poo and dead plant matter wasn't sustaining it (especially now that the plants are established, hardly any dead matter); that or copper poisoning from the betta food -- turned to poo (but the ghost shrimp were doing fine when they were eating it in the tank). Who knows 

It must have been rotting for a few days, smelled rancid when I took it out. Thought about feeding it to the evil ghost shrimp but decided to flush it. I saved the shell, will probably throw it in the shrimp tank as a source of calcium bicarbonate.

Did a 40% w/c.









Tied moss onto hut, getting messy. All red/pink/colored plants lost color in this tank and turned green. Green is better than dead 

Betta macro!


----------



## diwu13

Should have fed the carcass to the ghost shrimp to see if that would've killed it off finally :X. Good thinking about keeping the shell though!


----------



## biogenetic40379

sucks your snail died. I updated my journal for mine. I was considering a $10 clamp light from walmart, they can hold up to a 13w CFL vertically mounted, which would be loads of light


----------



## xenxes

I didn't think I had to feed it  but I guess the tank ran out of dead plant matter as they got established, and ran out of algae from change to lower light room. Got a link for the Walmart light? I'm not really liking the IKEA one I got for my bowl.

Also found a missing shrimp in the water pump area of the tank today, wonder how long it's been there. Still alive, probably fed off biofilm since that compartment is so stagnant.


----------



## synthorange

I've got a similar tank, and I'm always finding the smaller shrimp in there, feeding off the filter mats. Must be really, really tasty for shrimp. Chasing them down with a turkey baster to rescue them is always such a hassle.


----------



## diwu13

Pretty sure biogenetics is talking about something like this: http://www.amazon.com/Designers-Edg...ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1328172651&sr=1-1 I use one of these babies on my moss tank as well. CFL bulbs mounted vertically actually provides more light than when they are mounted horizontally.


----------



## Ozydego

I bought one of those shop fixtures and didn't use the clamp, I hung it from above and it doesn't look so DIY. I use it on my 2 gallon bowl with a fluorescent spotlight 16w


----------



## biogenetic40379

they carry these in the store as well as another brand
http://www.walmart.com/ip/your-zone-clip-lamp/16421443

like 2 bucks more than a work clamp light, but a little more sytlish. Can only take up to 13w CFL's though. Should be plenty for a small tank. The other one was $8.


----------



## diwu13

Problem with that Walmart light is that it is meant for ambient lighting. There's no reflectors on it so you're not directing the light. With the shot lights you get the highest PAR values directly where you need it, not scattered throughout the room.


----------



## Ozydego

That's the reason I went with the CF flood light, all that goodness directed right where it's supposed to be


----------



## xenxes

Tank Progress Post:


----------



## diwu13

So those bulbs will kinda stay single stems like that? No leaves or other goodness?


----------



## xenxes

The onions? Yeah they're just like scallions. Wonder if they taste like onions too...


----------



## skindy

Looking pretty!


----------



## diwu13

xenxes said:


> The onions? Yeah they're just like scallions. Wonder if they taste like onions too...


Since it grows so fast cut some off and give it a stirfry  :bounce:


----------



## diwu13

Do the two bettas interact with each other in any way?


----------



## xenxes

They flare at each other all the time. The first time he saw her he started building a bubble nest ferociously, and she started ovulating. 

I actually tried to breed them when the female was dropping eggs like no tomorrow, followed instructions to the letter, still, bad idea.


----------



## diwu13

The female betta got injured?


----------



## xenxes

skindy said:


> Looking pretty!


TY 



diwu13 said:


> The female betta got injured?


Yep, just fins though, grew back in 2 weeks. They almost spawned, she assumed the downward position, but he just kept nipping at her and building his bubble nest. Then she'd come back repeatedly and get nipped again. 

I mean it would be fun to have betta babies, but I have nowhere to put them, and they'd just eat my shrimp. So not trying it again.


----------



## diwu13

Have you ever used a sponge filter before? Do you know if the output has to be underwater or would it still work if I had it above the water?


----------



## Ozydego

If the sponge filter is connected to a powerhead, then it can be above the surface, if its a bubble sponge filter then no.....


----------



## diwu13

It's a sponge filter driven by an air pump. So the outlet has to be under the water in order for air to be sucked through the sponges right?


----------



## Ozydego

right, the bubbles moving up draw water with them which is where the flow comes from... actually was a problem once when I had an air driven UGF, I went on vaca and with evaporation, it stopped working... not good when I got back... that was a long time ago... Now, most sponge filters can be retrofitted to a powerhead and then you dont have to worry....


----------



## adriano

Love the close-up shot of the Betta in the original post. Made me laugh.


----------



## xenxes

It's melllllttttinngg!










One of the onions completely died, HC all stemmy and getting uprooted. I'll need a new light, or need to switch to crypts.


----------



## diwu13

Hm.. weird. Those onions were growing so well before. If you don't do WC's recently (cough) I know the plants stop getting nutrients they need that is present in fresh tap water.


----------



## xenxes

I dosed Seachem Flourish though, just last week?


----------



## diwu13

Hm.. flourish does contain trace elements. Not sure what's really wrong though. Even in planted tanks they recommend water changes every week though...


----------



## xenxes

I haven't changed water in the bamboo tank in forever though, 3 weeks, month? Same with the tree scape. Everything's alive and doing well, no nitrates. I get a lot of evaporation though, esp. in the 20g, I think the bamboo drink up the water fast. Sometimes up to 1" a day!

This... is just a situation of low light. I think.


----------



## diwu13

Have you tested the TDS of the 20L tank?

Hm... lighting could be an issue as well. I'm a newbie with plants though haha. If it does well, it does great in my tank. If it does poorly, it completely dies out. Nothing in the middle :X


----------



## biogenetic40379

did the onion turn brown or turn to mush, when i trimmed mine, it looked dead but sprang back


----------



## xenxes

Updates:

- Still using the same crappy light, removed most of the floater plants
- Removed the pagoda so I could add more plants for water quality, fish never used it anyway


----------



## CrazyCatPeekin

I like it. Are you going to try to give it a go with the stock light or are you planning to change it out?


----------



## xenxes

Going to let it run till it dies, it's fine with low light plants if the floaters aren't too dense. Will get the 13W replacement when this no longer works. Don't like throwing a perfectly good light away, stock or not


----------



## CrazyCatPeekin

xenxes said:


> Don't like throwing a perfectly good light away, stock or not


Agreed! I ended up using mine on a different tank. One that gets some ambient daylight so the strength of the leds isn't as important.


----------



## FisheriesOmen

diwu13 said:


> Hm.. weird. Those onions were growing so well before. If you don't do WC's recently (cough) I know the plants stop getting nutrients they need that is present in fresh tap water.


they are fine as long as there is soil for them to grab their nutrients from.(or at least for rooted plants) Otherwise just top-offs themselves are enough to replace the nutrients(unless there is a filter on the tank).


----------



## doncityz

xenxes said:


> Updates:
> 
> - Still using the same crappy light, removed most of the floater plants
> - Removed the pagoda so I could add more plants for water quality, fish never used it anyway


TBH, seems like too small space for a betta.


----------



## bettaICS

I'm new to this forum however I've been follwoing your thread closely and I admire your Fluval Spec setup so much that I want to mimic something similar in my office. I have a few questions though!

1.) Do you still treat your water with conditioner before adding
2.) Will LEDs for the spec be required if I have a lot of natural light entering from an adjacent window
3.) I didn't notice a heater within any of your pictures, if I have a 17w heater inside the tank will it affect the plants?


Sorry I have so many questions but I would like to understand how planting a tank works before I attempt this venture at work


----------



## diwu13

Change the title and say it's closed down !


----------

