# Feeding your dirt substrate...



## tetra73 (Aug 2, 2011)

I am expecting my dirt substrate would run out of nutrients, in my high tech tank, after 6 months. My question is that what can I or should I use to refertilize my soil? Organic ferts or artificial ones???


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## Ben! (Nov 11, 2012)

You can add some root tabs.


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## tetra73 (Aug 2, 2011)

Ben! said:


> You can add some root tabs.



I am trying to avoid aquarium based root tabs since they are usually overpriced and may not be good enough. I see I can get some organic fert spikes. I could just stick it into the substrate.


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## flukekiller (Jun 4, 2013)

tetra73 said:


> I am trying to avoid aquarium based root tabs since they are usually overpriced and may not be good enough. I see I can get some organic fert spikes. I could just stick it into the substrate.


I dunno bout that, I just got 150 root tabs for $15 shipped. Heck spend the $100 on a 50lb bag of osmocote+ and the gel caps and you could probably make thousands of them


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## amberoze (May 22, 2012)

If the tank is high tech, what method of fert dosing are you using? The fert dosing should prevent the soil from being drained so quickly 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 4


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## tetra73 (Aug 2, 2011)

amberoze said:


> If the tank is high tech, what method of fert dosing are you using? The fert dosing should prevent the soil from being drained so quickly
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 4



EI dosing using the guide line for a 40g to 60g. I have a 40g tank. 

Here is the tank after 5 weeks.


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## tetra73 (Aug 2, 2011)

flukekiller said:


> I dunno bout that, I just got 150 root tabs for $15 shipped. Heck spend the $100 on a 50lb bag of osmocote+ and the gel caps and you could probably make thousands of them



I was using the osmocote gel cap method but I found the process clumsy. I still have a bottle of the regular osmocote pellets. It seems the Job's fert sticks can be used also. I would probably use the organic version since they don't seem to contain ammonium. I can literally push down the entire stick way down into the substrate.


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## flight50 (Apr 17, 2012)

Although I don't have a dirt setup yet, I have came across quite a few threads in which I recall lots of people using osmocote caps with success. If you used a high cation cap, it helps with water column dosing. Just make sure your providing the nutrients to the correct regions of your tank. Do you have a mix of heavy root feeders vs leaf intaking plants or they are all root feeders?


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## Rich Guano (Jan 19, 2012)

Have you considered snails and/or worms? Leaving root systems behind to decompose when moving and trimming plants? How about pushing frozen ice cubes of fresh potting mix below the top layer?

Nice tank. 

If you started with a good potting mix, and lean a bit toward over feeding the fish, then your soil should stay viable for several years. I say this because i use the above strategies on a gravel only tank (minus the frozen dirt cubes) that is now 9 years old. I add no ferts, and the crypts, swords, wysteria and anubias are doing just fine. I am also doing this on two dirt tanks with sand caps, but these tanks are only six months old, so no long term results yet.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

All fertilizers are "organic" - none are "artificial". Plants need nitrates, an ion, NO3-, phosphates, an ion, PO4--, and potassium, ionized, K+. The chemical compound makes little difference as long as the other ions when it dissociates in water are not bad for the fish or plants. Plants can also get nitrogen from ammonia, ionized to ammonium, NH4+, again as any compound that doesn't dissociate into harmful ions.


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## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

Hoppy, you could also take that further and say gasoline is "organic". Crude oil is. But alas many fertilizers are made with petrochemicals and are not therefore considered "organic". Might not be artificial but they are synthetic. Osmocote is a synthetic. Miracle Grow, Scotts and Osmocote are owned by Monsanto.


> Organic Fertilizers are materials derived from plant and animal parts or residues. Examples are Blood Meal, Compost, Bat Guano, Manure, Seaweed, and Worm Castings.
> 
> Synthetic Fertilizers are “Man made” inorganic compounds - usually derived from by-products of the petroleum industry. Examples are Ammonium Nitrate, Ammonium Phosphate, Superphosphate, and Potassium Sulfate.
> 
> ...


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## norbot (Jan 5, 2013)

Reading this thread alleviated my worries about exhausting dirt substrates.....I never considered that.

I still like using dirt tho

for spiking the substrate, I made diy clay balls using pottery clay. I put in some mts, jobe's sticks, myriad other fertilizers and rolled it up, form into balls and bake around 200f for an hour or more.

Hard clay root tabs that don't dissolve too quickly and I got over a hundred for $5-$10 in material

Quite messy tho

ps: screw monsanto, never knew that but am not surprised


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

Great post, GraphicGr8s. If I had a hat, I'd doff it in agreement. As far as fertilizers go, I use dirt and garden compost for my tanks. I have also made a fertilizer from liquefied banana peel, but did not test it steadily enough to say if it made a difference.

In relation to this thread, might I bring up that plants don't simply take fertilizer without giving anything back? Your fish nibble at algae and plants, with that, and what you feed them, their waste puts this back into the water column. Even with water changes and filters, the plants have plenty to feed on. In addition, plants will use nutrients and release it back into where they grow. (Think about the principles of crop rotation and companion planting in terrestrial farming) Much of this can be decay, but they also do it while living. Even with what a high tech tank does use, I wouldn't be worried much about exhausting the dirt. If you are really worried about replenishing, dirt ice cubes aren't a bad idea.


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## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

I wonder how many here know the meaning of "doffing one's hat"?

As an aside companion planting is not all that it was cracked up to be. I've seen studies lately that seem to show little to no difference in yield whether companion planted or not. But I still do it. Studies be damned.


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## GoKingsGo (Jul 15, 2013)

flukekiller said:


> I dunno bout that, I just got 150 root tabs for $15 shipped. Heck spend the $100 on a 50lb bag of osmocote+ and the gel caps and you could probably make thousands of them


Where from? Need to order some more myself.


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

GraphicGr8s said:


> I wonder how many here know the meaning of "doffing one's hat"?
> 
> As an aside companion planting is not all that it was cracked up to be. I've seen studies lately that seem to show little to no difference in yield whether companion planted or not. But I still do it. Studies be damned.


Ah, classier times gone past. Clothing is either skin tight, or transparent, good handshakes are given by con men, and seems even "thank you" is foreign nowadays :icon_conf

I would be very interested in reading those studies. I'm all for scientific backing. Never mind yield, I'd be more concerned with overall plant and soil quality. Deuce, with the tomatoes this year, I wouldn't want any more yield. But if putting sage near them makes them a bit tastier, I'm still gonna do it. At the very least those herbs would act like a living mulch and keep the weeds down.


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## GraphicGr8s (Apr 4, 2011)

defiesexistence said:


> Ah, classier times gone past. Clothing is either skin tight, or transparent, good handshakes are given by con men, and seems even "thank you" is foreign nowadays :icon_conf
> 
> I would be very interested in reading those studies. I'm all for scientific backing. Never mind yield, I'd be more concerned with overall plant and soil quality. Deuce, with the tomatoes this year, I wouldn't want any more yield. But if putting sage near them makes them a bit tastier, I'm still gonna do it. At the very least those herbs would act like a living mulch and keep the weeds down.


Yep. Classier times. OK Now I need to go to the milliner's and get me a fedora. I love a good fedora.


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

I happened upon, Google/bing... "Osmocote pot shot's" and have been using them in soil based tank's for a couple year's now.
They look like a thimble with some type of substance(molasses maybe) that hold's it all together.
I place one of these under large crypt's /sword plant's and replace em about every four month's.


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## defiesexistence (Sep 13, 2010)

.... I just wore a fedora out antiqueing :red_mouth


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

roadmaster, do the "Osmocote pot shot's" use the same small spheres as regular Osmocote?
If so the ferts work great if you don't mind that the spheres once empty will eventually find their way to the surface of substrate and drift around the tank.
Personally found that to be an eyesore and PITA using RootMedic ferts in a couple tanks.


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## ridethespiral (Aug 5, 2010)

wkndracer said:


> roadmaster, do the "Osmocote pot shot's" use the same small spheres as regular Osmocote?
> If so the ferts work great if you don't mind that the spheres once empty will eventually find their way to the surface of substrate and drift around the tank.
> Personally found that to be an eyesore and PITA using RootMedic ferts in a couple tanks.


Hey wkndracer.

I was wondering where those little spheres came from! Lol! I thought it was from the miracle grow organic, but that makes sense.. I totally just placed about 15 of 'RootMedic' root tabs that I bought when my 10 gallon was running. My tank has been wet for almost three years now and my plants have really thinned out. I attribute it to the soil not having any more nutrients. I really hope it gets the plants happy again though..


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

wkndracer said:


> roadmaster, do the "Osmocote pot shot's" use the same small spheres as regular Osmocote?
> If so the ferts work great if you don't mind that the spheres once empty will eventually find their way to the surface of substrate and drift around the tank.
> Personally found that to be an eyesore and PITA using RootMedic ferts in a couple tanks.


 
Depend's on how,Who, or what disturb's the substrate as to what find's it's way to the surface.
Also how deep the substrate is.My substrates tend to run on the deep side at around four inches.


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