# My Plan For Stubborn Cynobacteria



## RollaPrime (Jul 27, 2018)

I have a discus tank which results in... 



Higher nitrates, higher Phosphate, and more nutrients. Currently I do 3X 50-60% WCs a week turning over a minimum of 150% per week. 


My tap water parameters: 5-10ppm Nitrate and 1ppm Phosphate.

At the moment my tank is bare bottom. Lighting is T5 down 4-5 hours max.

And the only way I can see forward is going against the grain of Discus normality. Which means returning to substrate (to hold plants) pressurized Co2 and ferts to grow plants and as many fast growing plants I can find that will survive at discus temps. 

Given the above factors is there anything else I should consider? After 3 months of this stubborn algae I'm at my wits end.

Please advise :|


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

If it's cyano, use Chemiclean. 

I don't understand why you NO3 and PO4 and other nutrient levels are high? How many discus at what size in how big of a tank are we talking here?


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## RollaPrime (Jul 27, 2018)

Quagulator said:


> If it's cyano, use Chemiclean.
> 
> I don't understand why you NO3 and PO4 and other nutrient levels are high? How many discus at what size in how big of a tank are we talking here?


450L/120 gal with an extra 80L of filtration via Fluval FX6 and Oase 350

Previously I had 8 discus but needed to re-home one due to a crazy amount of violence. I also have 24 lemon tetras.


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## tamsin (Jan 12, 2011)

Three 60% water changes, is actually about 95% of the water replaced in a week rather than 150% as you replace some of the new each change. However, if you are replacing 95% of the water and still getting high nitrates (how high is high?) something is going wrong somewhere... over stocking, over feeding, cycle issue etc. 

Have you checked everything - in the tank itself not just your tap - hardness, ph, nitrates etc. gives you an idea of what's happening.

I don't think planting the tank is going to help unless you work out the root of the problem.

What have you tried so far to resolve the cyano?


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## RollaPrime (Jul 27, 2018)

tamsin said:


> *Three 60% water changes, is actually about 95% of the water replaced in a week rather than 150% as you replace some of the new each change.* However, if you are replacing 95% of the water and still getting high nitrates (how high is high?) something is going wrong somewhere... over stocking, over feeding, cycle issue etc.
> 
> Have you checked everything - in the tank itself not just your tap - hardness, ph, nitrates etc. gives you an idea of what's happening.
> 
> ...


I appreciate the reply and input here but the highlighted part makes no sense to me. 

My tap water is 5ppm Nitrate and 1-5ppm Phos. (Phos fluctuates.) The plan is to eliminate excess Nitrate and Phos and reduce lighting to counter the cyno.


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## tamsin (Jan 12, 2011)

RollaPrime said:


> I appreciate the reply and input here but the highlighted part makes no sense to me.
> 
> My tap water is 5ppm Nitrate and 1-5ppm Phos. (Phos fluctuates.) The plan is to eliminate excess Nitrate and Phos and reduce lighting to counter the cyno.



When you do multiple changes, you are taking change some of the old water and some of the new water from the previous change, so you can't add just add them together - i.e. three 50% change don't mean you've changed out 150% of the original water.



After the first 50% change you have 50% old water and 50% new water in the tank.
After the next 50% change you 25% old water and 75% new water in the tank 

After the next 50% change you have 12.5% old water and 87.5% new water tank


As you are doing fairly big changes it shouldn't make much difference to you, but it might be one of the reasons you don't see the nitrates drop as much as you'd expect if you are assuming at the end of the week you've change out all the old water and more.


What's the nitrate reading actually in your tank water rather than your tap? 5ppm is fine and if that's your tap your very unlikely get it any lower in the tank. Changing as much as you do I'd expect it to be close to 5ppm in the tank. If you are thinking of going planted you need some nitrate and phosphate anyway as they need that for growth.


My suspicion is that you are incorrectly blaming nitrates/phos, unless you are generating an awful lot I wouldn't expect your tank to be that much above the tap. Again, need the tank, rather than tap, reading to be sure. Once you have cyano it will hang about until you kill it - dirty substrate and low flow can be triggers but often just resolving those won't stop it. You need to clean thoroughly to remove it visually and then completely black out the tank (no light, even ambient from the room) to kill it off completely or it will return.


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## DaveKS (Apr 2, 2019)

Get some floating plants. Will both cut light reaching tank and also clean water. You won’t need CO2 because they have access to all they want in air. About 1/3-1/2 tank covered in frogbit will work. Fish will also be happier with a little floating cover.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Can we get some more details, including:

What actual tank water parameters are?

How many T5 bulbs are you running? Trying to understand how much light is going into the tank

What are you feeding and how often?

How often do you clean the filters?

Really hard to help unless there are more details!


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## AquaAurora (Jul 10, 2013)

I've had cyanobacteria in 3 of my tanks. Aggressive removal by hand and use of the product chemiclean has helped cut it back a TON. 
My 75g planted tank was covered in cyano bacteria. After spending 4 hours crunched over the rim removing every bit I could see and ding 2 rounds of chemiclean (dose-48 hours-wc) and currently there is only the tiniest bit..have hair algae now but that's my fault for adding an extra light I didn't need. Side note: if you have a lid clean the lid and rim of the tank the lid sits on-had a lot of cyanobacteria build up here.
Rachel O'leary on youtube started using some other product to deal with cyanobacteria but never did a follow up video to see if it was any help. Not tried it so cant comment on it.


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## RollaPrime (Jul 27, 2018)

Grobbins48 said:


> Can we get some more details, including:
> 
> What actual tank water parameters are?
> 
> ...



My Nitrates reach 10ppm every 3 days. Phosphate at about 5ppm. Ammonia and Nitrite are both 0ppm.
I feed FDAB and various flake/ My lights are led 2XT5. Specifically 62W combined. However I have purchased and brightness adjustable unit. The following pics are an example of the the interface and output. Not an actual setting I'm using as it hasn't been added to the tank yet.











And the resulting output













I clean the FX6 filter once every 2 months. I have an Oase 350 filter and one third of the canister is an internal pre filter. The oase is damn near pristine. I remove the internal pre filter and clean that every two weeks...





AquaAurora said:


> I've had cyanobacteria in 3 of my tanks. Aggressive removal by hand and use of the product chemiclean has helped cut it back a TON.
> My 75g planted tank was covered in cyano bacteria. After spending 4 hours crunched over the rim removing every bit I could see and ding 2 rounds of chemiclean (dose-48 hours-wc) and currently there is only the tiniest bit..have hair algae now but that's my fault for adding an extra light I didn't need. Side note: if you have a lid clean the lid and rim of the tank the lid sits on-had a lot of cyanobacteria build up here.
> Rachel O'leary on youtube started using some other product to deal with cyanobacteria but never did a follow up video to see if it was any help. Not tried it so cant comment on it.


Chemi clean isn't available here. I watched O'leary's cyno vid too. She does great content but I haven't seen a follow up either. 

@tamsin I hate to disagree especially since you took the time to provide advice about my situation. That said, your view on what constitutes a percentage of water change is completely off and foreign especially to discus keepers who rely heavily on water changes. Some even do 90% daily... Which wouldn't be 90% by your calculations. I apologize in advance if it's just my comprehension which is at fault here.



DaveKS said:


> Get some floating plants. Will both cut light reaching tank and also clean water. You won’t need CO2 because they have access to all they want in air. About 1/3-1/2 tank covered in frogbit will work. Fish will also be happier with a little floating cover.


Keeping discus means I need more surface tension to compensate for the lower amount of oxygen at higher temps. Now that I'll be adding CO2 I wont be able to reduce that level of surface tension and the floating plants will most likely get churned into mush seeing as they thrive in calmer conditions. I have looked into pothos (spelling?) but I'm not sure a jungle sprawling outside of the tank will go down well with the lady in my life lol
...

I appreciate all the info and feedback guys, I really do. My understanding of what sustains cyno is excess light, nutrients, phos and nitrate. As my discus have grown I believe the nutrients and nitrate have become more of a factor and like the rest of you, being a planted guy I believe a decent amount of plants to out compete the cyno is perhaps the best option. I purchased a tub of seachem Phosguard and will add that to the oase pre filter if the plants don't eliminate it. Blackouts have an adverse affect on it. I recently did a 5 day black out and it began to die off which is why I spent way too much on an adjustable output led unit to replace the T5s.


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## tamsin (Jan 12, 2011)

RollaPrime said:


> @*tamsin* I hate to disagree especially since you took the time to provide advice about my situation. That said, your view on what constitutes a percentage of water change is completely off and foreign especially to discus keepers who rely heavily on water changes. Some even do 90% daily... Which wouldn't be 90% by your calculations. I apologize in advance if it's just my comprehension which is at fault here.



It's probably my explaining, I feel like it would be easier with props 


Imagine you have a cup of milk, pour out half the milk and top up with water, you'd agree I'll now have 50/50 water and milk - right? If you pour out half of that 50/50 milk/water cup top it up with water again - do you now have a glass of pure water? After all that's two 50% changes ... so you'd think that means now you have 100% water? Nope, you still have milky water!! (Feel free to try it  ) To be accurate you now have 25% milk and 75% water, because when you poured out half the glass the second time you were pouring out some milk and some of the new water, not just milk. If you kept going you'd eventually dilute it until you couldn't detect milk. On the other hand, if you poured out all the milk in one go and then refilled with water then you would have 100% water. That's why two 50% changes don't = a 100% change.... and a 90% in one go change makes a 90% change. You'd need to do 3-4 50% changes to achieve the same dilution as a single 90%. 



1st 50% change = 50% new water

2nd 50% change = 75% new water
3rd 50% change = 87.5% new water

4th 50% change = 93.75% new water



Now, to make it worse, imagine the water you are refilling with already has some milk in! Just like your tap water already has nitrates.


If your tank has 10ppm and your tap has 5ppm your numbers will look like this:


1st 50% change = 7.5ppm

2nd 50% change = 6.25ppm

3rd 50% change = 5.625ppm


That's assuming no more nitrate is generated, when we know it is as it's raising from 5 to 10ppm in 3 days. Assuming your water change is every 3 days that makes your number look like:


1st 50% change = 7.5ppm (raising to 12.5ppm)
2nd 50% change = 8.75ppm (raising to 13.75ppm)
3rd 50% change = 9.37ppm (raising to 14.375ppm)
4th 50% change = 9.6875 (raising to 14.6975ppm)
5th 50% change = 9.84375 .... and so on


As you can see it stabilises out just under 10ppm. It's physically impossible for you to water change your nitrates lower.



I apologise for all the maths, which is a bit off topic to your original question 


10ppm nitrates shouldn't cause the cyano though, it's not a terrible number. My water comes out the tap at 40ppm. If you wanted to try and reduce it, and it wouldn't be by much (we're talking the difference between stabilising around 5.3ppm v. 9.8ppm) your best bet would be floating plants or plants with the roots in the water as they grow strongest with access to CO2 in the air. A regular planted tank would be nice, but I wouldn't count on it making a significant difference to nitrates. And, if you do drop them you'd end up needing to add them back in to keep the plants healthy. 



The fact you saw the cyano die off with a five day blackout is great, I think that is your cure. My advice is to physically remove as much cyano as you can, use a tooth brush and a syphon, take anything out you can to scrub. You want the tank to look cyano free. Then do a five day blackout again, making sure to cover the tank to prevent ambient light. Fingers crossed once you've done that it won't reappear. Lowering the light following should help make sure. I've successfully cured it that way myself.


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## Ddrizzle (Jan 30, 2019)

I mean maybe this is oversimplified but you can either cut the light intensity or length back, put plants and co2 in, or use RO water to cut back on contaminants even more.

Is there a y chance there is detritus on the substrate or is this just glass and water?


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

tamsin said:


> It's probably my explaining, I feel like it would be easier with props
> 
> 
> Imagine you have a cup of milk, pour out half the milk and top up with water, you'd agree I'll now have 50/50 water and milk - right? If you pour out half of that 50/50 milk/water cup top it up with water again - do you now have a glass of pure water? After all that's two 50% changes ... so you'd think that means now you have 100% water? Nope, you still have milky water!! (Feel free to try it  ) To be accurate you now have 25% milk and 75% water, because when you poured out half the glass the second time you were pouring out some milk and some of the new water, not just milk. If you kept going you'd eventually dilute it until you couldn't detect milk. On the other hand, if you poured out all the milk in one go and then refilled with water then you would have 100% water. That's why two 50% changes don't = a 100% change.... and a 90% in one go change makes a 90% change. You'd need to do 3-4 50% changes to achieve the same dilution as a single 90%.
> ...


Just wanted to give you props for explaining the water changes quite well! Did it more justice that I would have!

OP- there are online calculators for this as well if interested. 

FWIW- BGA can be in a fully planted aquarium as well. I would think to myself, what it is that you want out of this discus tank? Do you want a planted tank, or do you enjoy the bare bottom tank?


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## Desert Pupfish (May 6, 2019)

Have you tried a UV sterilizer yet to combat the cyano? When I started my tank, I had a stubborn combo of cyano & greenwater, and despite trying erythromycin, blackouts, etc, nothing helped until I put in a Green Machine. That totally turned the corner for me. 

Pothos or any terrestrial plant which will grow in water works wonders in sucking out nutrients. Other options that might be more palatable to the missus are syngoniums, purple wandering jew, sweet potato vines (there are a couple of ornamental varieties that come in chartreuse and a purple-black), golden jenny, etc. I've found the roots attract algae, but it doesn't spread to anything else. There are videos online where people float anthuriums or peace lilies in styrofoam rings after washing the dirt off the roots. Haven't yet tried this myself, but would like to give it a try with some colorful anthuriums. 

Could you also perhaps put some fast growing stems or rooted plants like water sprite in pots? Or tall emergent plants in pots?


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Desert Pupfish said:


> Have you tried a UV sterilizer yet to combat the cyano? When I started my tank, I had a stubborn combo of cyano & greenwater, and despite trying erythromycin, blackouts, etc, nothing helped until I put in a Green Machine. That totally turned the corner for me.


I didn't even consider the UV. I get it on the top of my bacopa colorata and nothing seems to rid it off. Perhaps if I turn my UV on after the next water change? It is a good thought!

I'll just need to remember to click it off after a day or so. If I remember correctly the UV messes with the chelated iron and can make the tank cloudy? I'll need to look this one up again...


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## discuspaul (Jul 27, 2010)

You sure what you have is cyano, Rolla Prime ?

Can you post a pic of it ? 

If it is in fact cyano, I believe there's an easy fix to eliminating it, depending on how much of it there is.


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## RollaPrime (Jul 27, 2018)

Double


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## RollaPrime (Jul 27, 2018)

Ok so to understand my thought process on this I guess it'd be easier to tell you a little more about my journey in this hobby. I walked into a LFS on a whim and left with 12 goldfish and a 60L aquarium and stand. About a month later, with no idea about filtration dechlor... Actually you all know that part of the story. Unfortunately it's far too common probably more so a decade ago when I first got into the hobby. 

Eventually I "progressed" to planted tanks. I started out with diy co2 but the inconsistency in that method lead to my first ever battle with algae in the form of Black Beard/Black Hair. At the time, that was stressful until I signed up to a now defunct forum a got some purposely simplified advice. "Remove the element(s) that makes that algae thrive and it'll die out." About a week later I got my first ever pressurized CO2 system. And within two weeks the consistent level of co2 literally made the BBA fall off and melt away without me doing anything extra. 

Obviously since that point, just from being in this hobby, expands your knowledge. I've dealt with algae since but I've been more concerned about deficiencies in plants and how to spot them by eye. This Cyno has been a different beast entirely. Brought on by my discus which I bought at 4-6cm size growing, maturing, and consuming more. That level of nutrient in a bare tank introduced cyno. 

Truth be told The real struggle here isn't the cyno but more so being a discus keeper who has been deep in discus keeping discussions. As I'm sure most of you know bare tanks is the way forward with discus keepers. And planted tanks are largely dismissed. When I decided to get back to a planted tank and use plants to create a balance I was actually cursed out by a long time discus keeper and a mod had to remove his post. But planted tanks and the equilibrium they can provide is what I know best and I believe, the best way to rid myself of the algae that had taken root. 

Usually, in my bare bottom setup Cyno would be back after the *first* photo period. Thankfully that's not the case. The build isn't finished because amazon failed to deliver all of the substrate and I have plants yet to be delivered. But this is my aquarium as it stands right now...











Admittedly the plants look tired as they were sourced from ebay and at the time of the pic hadn't had any CO2 as yet. I plan to get some corydora this week to consume the excess for that hits the substrate. As you know discus are messy eaters so I'm eager to exchange less nutrients from more bioload. Also I need dithers as this new setup has made the discus skittish.



tamsin said:


> It's probably my explaining, I feel like it would be easier with props
> 
> I apologise for all the maths, which is a bit off topic to your original question
> 
> ...



In the UK, officially, we have some of the cleanest water. What they don't boast about is the amount of chemicals they insert to make it that way lol. I think the confusion here is that we're discussing a single element present in the tap water but in past setsups would be consumed by plants. In previous builds 5-10ppm of Nitrate from the tap was ideal. The mass of plants would get through that within a 4-5 days as with other macros and micros that were present. In one build I had to add macros after my weekly water change and despite being present in my water source.

Basically after 4-5 days there is/was no "milk" because the flora ate it entirely. Making a 50% water change...

Can we go back to nitrate and such? The thought of milk in my aquarium makes me all types of queasy :grin2:



Ddrizzle said:


> I mean maybe this is oversimplified but you can either cut the light intensity or length back, put plants and co2 in, or use RO water to cut back on contaminants even more.
> 
> 
> Is there a y chance there is detritus on the substrate or is this just glass and water?


Until just recently it was just glass and water. Discus don't really take well to prolonged black outs. I've spoken to a few who are more experienced with this species and they don't recommend prolonged periods with that approach.



Grobbins48 said:


> Just wanted to give you props for explaining the water changes quite well! Did it more justice that I would have!
> 
> OP- there are online calculators for this as well if interested.
> 
> FWIW- BGA can be in a fully planted aquarium as well. I would think to myself, what it is that you want out of this discus tank? Do you want a planted tank, or do you enjoy the bare bottom tank?


Hey Grobbins

Please post the calculators. Oh and to answer you question is definitely a discus tank :wink2:



Desert Pupfish said:


> Have you tried a UV sterilizer yet to combat the cyano? When I started my tank, I had a stubborn combo of cyano & greenwater, and despite trying erythromycin, blackouts, etc, nothing helped until I put in a Green Machine. That totally turned the corner for me.
> 
> Pothos or any terrestrial plant which will grow in water works wonders in sucking out nutrients. Other options that might be more palatable to the missus are syngoniums, purple wandering jew, sweet potato vines (there are a couple of ornamental varieties that come in chartreuse and a purple-black), golden jenny, etc. I've found the roots attract algae, but it doesn't spread to anything else. There are videos online where people float anthuriums or peace lilies in styrofoam rings after washing the dirt off the roots. Haven't yet tried this myself, but would like to give it a try with some colorful anthuriums.
> 
> Could you also perhaps put some fast growing stems or rooted plants like water sprite in pots? Or tall emergent plants in pots?


These plants are all things to consider if my current approach fails.



discuspaul said:


> You sure what you have is cyano, Rolla Prime ?
> 
> Can you post a pic of it ?
> 
> If it is in fact cyano, I believe there's an easy fix to eliminating it, depending on how much of it there is.



Started out as thin sheets of green and then turned into a redish thick slime. Even with the water removed and lights off it's unmistakable.


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## Muscleguy (Feb 16, 2020)

You can put phosphate absorbing beads in a mesh bag in your canister filter. There are various brands. Just follow the instructions carefully. Nitrogen absorbers are also available. I'm surprised you are trying to run a discus setup without such things in place considering how sensitive to water conditions discus are. 

Fast growing plants will certainly help as well but you should institute backup in your filter. 

But as others have said look at your feeding regime. Fish are cold blooded so can be fed every other day rather than every day. So look to how much and how often you feed your fish in order to get at the root of the problem. 

It is normal to want to care for our pets, but you can kill them with too much care. Pull back, realise less can be more.


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## Muscleguy (Feb 16, 2020)

BTW what is the water flow like in the tank. Cyanobac should be swept away by even a moderate flow. It should disappear into your nice dark canister filter.


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## discuspaul (Jul 27, 2010)

Muscleguy said:


> BTW what is the water flow like in the tank. Cyanobac should be swept away by even a moderate flow. It should disappear into your nice dark canister filter.



Good point here by Muscleguy regarding water flow in the tank.
Cyanobacteria is anaerobic and usually thrives in low bottom areas of the tank where there is no water flow- i.e. areas which are low in, or almost devoid of oxygen.


I can't tell from your small full tank pic, Rolla, if or where there is any cyano, and from your later photo of what appears to be in the substrate area of the tank, all I see is what seems to be pieces of driftwood, a couple of which have small tufts of some greenery attached - is that correct ? I still do not see any cyano per se - please indicate where it can be located and seen


In any event, if there are no large, wide expanse, patches of cyano, here's what you can do at the time of a water change, with your filter(s) turned off, and the water level at a mid-point range of your tank level;
- At close range using a plastic syringe, or test kit pipette, spray the cyano with straight H202 ( regular household hydrogen peroxide), it should shortly form bubbles (oxygen) on the cyano - leave it this way for about 1/2 hour with filters off, then refill tank as usual. You'll see it working as the air bubbles remove themselves from the cyano & rise up into the water flow. The following morning, the sprayed areas of cyano should have disappeared.
A moderate amount of H202 used in this manner will not hurt your discus- but keep them away from getting too close when you spray to be safe.
Repeat this procedure in areas you haven't done first time around if need be.
Then improve your water flow in the bottom areas of the tank, with a strong flow from a spray bar, or an extended filter return nozzle which goes down to near the tank bottom, or even a small water circulation pump strategically placed to flow water over the tank bottom. 
That should keep the cyano from returning. Having said all of this Rolla, I'm still not sure you have any cyano in those pics - I don't see any. Please point this out if you can.


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## RollaPrime (Jul 27, 2018)

Muscleguy said:


> You can put phosphate absorbing beads in a mesh bag in your canister filter. There are various brands. Just follow the instructions carefully. Nitrogen absorbers are also available. I'm surprised you are trying to run a discus setup without such things in place considering how sensitive to water conditions discus are.
> 
> Fast growing plants will certainly help as well but you should institute backup in your filter.
> 
> ...



I feed my discus twice a day which is on the lower scale for discus keepers. They live in higher temps, mine are at 28-30C and therefore the metabolic rate consumes energy faster. I've pulled away from raw meat/beefheart in favour of FDBW which is protein rich but less messy and less of a pollutant. I actually purchased seachem phosguard but the aim is still to balance and outcompete the cyno, naturally. 




Muscleguy said:


> BTW what is the water flow like in the tank. Cyanobac should be swept away by even a moderate flow. It should disappear into your nice dark canister filter.



I have two canister filters. FX6, Oase 305 filters, and also a Hydor power head. The flow is as desired each part of the tank, even behind the big rock, has plants swaying gently. 




discuspaul said:


> Good point here by Muscleguy regarding water flow in the tank.
> Cyanobacteria is anaerobic and usually thrives in low bottom areas of the tank where there is no water flow- i.e. areas which are low in, or almost devoid of oxygen.
> 
> 
> ...


The FTS is the tank now. Free of (touch wood) cyno. The latter pic is of the driftwood. Cyno is all over the mazi wood/driftwood, and on the glass bottom that's not substrate, that's cyno. It was green to start with and then turned redish over time. I'm certain it's not an oxygen issue. As you know discus temps/warmer water has less oxygen so I over compensate for that. Almost one third of the surface is dedicated to replacing oxygen. 

Old pic showing surface tension before cyno took root.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Effective water change percent calculator 


https://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/EffectiveWaterChange.php


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## RollaPrime (Jul 27, 2018)

Grobbins48 said:


> Effective water change percent calculator
> 
> 
> https://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/EffectiveWaterChange.php


According to this I'm doing 75-80% a week which is pretty decent.


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## aquapadawan (Dec 5, 2019)

I thought cyano basically only happens in stagnant water. I had a small patch of it once, looked like a gob of blue green paint stuck to the top of a plant, but as soon as I adjusted flow and dosed peroxide it dissapered. Now that damned hair algae though...that I can't beat. Tried a few amino shrimp but I guess I'd need an army . So for now peroxide and small doses of algae fix keep it in check


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## Muscleguy (Feb 16, 2020)

Phosphate seems to be the thing with hair algae. Using a phosphate absorber should help and at the very least stop it getting worse. I use the appearance of it on my anubias as an indicator that I need to change it for fresh. 

Snails eat hair algae. I had none when things got bad due to loaches in the tank. Now I have more tanks I grow snails elsewhere and put the larger ones in the community tank. Though I'm seeing baby snails left to grow by the loaches now which is curious. They are supposed to be like popcorn for them. But my ramshorns definitely eat hair algae. Though it might take time for them to get to it. 

My snails basically eat what the ancistrus cat doesn't eat. The loaches should stop them taking over.


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## TMarquis (Mar 6, 2012)

*Discus Tank and algae*

Having bred discus many times, I recommend using RO water. This is how I kept algae from taking over. Most plants like very soft water with a pH of about 7.0, or lower. I changed 50% water nearly every day. Discus are best kept at about 80-83 degrees. Good luck.



RollaPrime said:


> I have a discus tank which results in...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## trahana (Jan 29, 2019)

I battled Cyano for months and was told you need to remove it by hand, black out the tank, stop dosing nutrients... well when that didn't work I literally threw out stuff it was on because its ugly and a pain. Still had cyano though. 
I don't have cyanobacteria in my tanks anymore though! I dosed all my tanks, equipment, and every batch of gravel and decor I ever used with Furan-2 or double dose of melafix(for decor and fishless tanks). True Cyano is a photosynthesizing bacteria, which means antibiotics kill it. It work wonders for cyano, and I have yet to hear of some completely and utterly rid themselves of cyano without using antibiotics.


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## TINNGG (Mar 9, 2005)

Mmmm...Barr used to recommend (possibly still does) a blackout, large water change, and dosing potassium nitrate. I suspect the potassium might be the key here - that nitrates in the absence of it tend to foster prime conditions for BGA. 

I had it in a few tanks. My 75, after the recommended half doze erythromycin failed to make a dent, I just let it go for a while. It built up layers on the substrate. I finally found motivation and dosed full strength, which did kill it seemingly, but the fun of removal... I noticed that it tried to come back but was gone overnight after a dose of fertilizer.

Another tank, finally died off when I turned the lights off on the tank. I had a spray bar aimed at one patch. Didn't phase it.


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