# Substrate releasing ammonia - Will it ever end?



## someoldguy (Feb 26, 2014)

Something should have happened by now . Don’t believe your substrate is a problem per se ; lava is pretty inert and is used as hardscape all the time . Seems you’re just not getting bacteria going in your filter . I’m assuming you’ve got a running filter and adequate light . 
If I were in your shoes here’s what I would do:
Drain the tank , get as much of the water out as you can , down into the gravel base .
Let the tank sit empty for a day or 2 , then refill , using Stresscoat as you’ve been doing . Don’t add any ammonia , just leave the water alone for a day or 2 , running the heater and filter only . Get several bunches cheap stem plants , elodea or something similar , separate the bunches and plant the stems , they’ll probably fall apart in a few weeks , but we just want them to help get things going . If you can find maybe 10-12 vallisineria , that’s good in addition to the stems .Maybe some floaters,too , like frogbit or salvinia . If you can find some Tetra SafeStart or Dr. Tims , add it now . If you can’t find either, no big deal , it’ll just take a bit longer. Get your light working if you haven’t done so .
Pick up a couple of platys , swordtails ,or any other inexpensive livebearer . Make sure they’re healthy . Feed them flake food . They’ll cheerfully turn flake food into nitrogenous waste material and bacteria , which will colonize your tank .
This , plus whatever is on the plants will start your bacteria going . Let the tank run for a week or so . Now check your water chemistry . Shouldn’t have too much in the way of ammonia , if anything . During this whole thing , don’t do any water changes , no CO2 , no ferts . The whole idea is to get things going slow and easy , and enable the tank to reach a stable state .


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

Here is the fishless cycle. You are adding WAY too much ammonia, and stopping (or greatly slowing) the growth of the very bacteria you want. 

I agree: 100% water change, refill (don't forget the dechlor) then allow it to run for 24-48 hours, and check the ammonia. You might find a trace from whatever water lingered after your water change, but it should not keep on rising. If it does, this suggests there is a lot of organic matter, perhaps animal manure, stuck in the pores of the lava rock. 

Here is the fishless cycle. Check that the other parameters are within the right range for growing the bacteria. 

Cycle: To grow the beneficial bacteria that remove ammonia and nitrite from the aquarium.

Fish-In Cycle: To expose fish to toxins while using them as the source of ammonia to grow nitrogen cycle bacteria. Exposure to ammonia burns the gills and other soft tissue, stresses the fish and lowers their immunity. Exposure to nitrite makes the blood unable to carry oxygen. Research methemglobinemia for details. 

Fishless Cycle: The safe way to grow more bacteria, faster, in an aquarium, pond or riparium. 

The method I give here was developed by 2 scientists who wanted to quickly grow enough bacteria to fully stock a tank all at one time, with no plants helping, and overstock it as is common with Rift Lake Cichlid tanks. 

1a) Set up the tank and all the equipment. You can plant if you want. Include the proper dose of dechlorinator with the water. 
Optimum water chemistry:
GH and KH above 3 German degrees of hardness. A lot harder is just fine. 
pH above 7, and into the mid 8s is just fine. 
Temperature in the upper 70s F (mid 20s C) is good. Higher is OK if the water is well aerated. 
A trace of other minerals may help. Usually this comes in with the water, but if you have a pinch of KH2PO4, that may be helpful. 
High oxygen level. Make sure the filter and power heads are running well. Plenty of water circulation. 
No toxins in the tank. If you washed the tank, or any part of the system with any sort of cleanser, soap, detergent, bleach or anything else make sure it is well rinsed. Do not put your hands in the tank when you are wearing any sort of cosmetics, perfume or hand lotion. No fish medicines of any sort. 
A trace of salt (sodium chloride) is OK, but not required. 
This method of growing bacteria will work in a marine system, too. The species of bacteria are different. 

1b) Optional: Add any source of the bacteria that you are growing to seed the tank. Cycled media from a healthy tank is good. Decor or some gravel from a cycled tank is OK. Live plants or plastic are OK. Bottled bacteria is great, but only if it contains Nitrospira species of bacteria. Read the label and do not waste your money on anything else. 
At the time this was written the right species could be found in: 
Dr. Tims One and Only
Tetra Safe Start
Microbe Lift Nite Out II
...and perhaps others. 
You do not have to jump start the cycle. The right species of bacteria are all around, and will find the tank pretty fast. 

2) Add ammonia until the test reads 5 ppm. This ammonia is the cheapest you can find. No surfactants, no perfumes. Read the fine print. This is often found at discount stores like Dollar Tree, or hardware stores like Ace. You could also use a dead shrimp form the grocery store, or fish food. Protein breaks down to become ammonia. You do not have good control over the ammonia level, though. 
Some substrates release ammonia when they are submerged for the first time. Monitor the level and do enough water changes to keep the ammonia at the levels detailed below. 

3) Test daily. For the first few days not much will happen, but the bacteria that remove ammonia are getting started. Finally the ammonia starts to drop. Add a little more, once a day, to test 5 ppm. 

4) Test for nitrite. A day or so after the ammonia starts to drop the nitrite will show up. When it does allow the ammonia to drop to 3 ppm. 

5) Test daily. Add ammonia to 3 ppm once a day. If the nitrite or ammonia go to 5 ppm do a water change to get these lower. The ammonia removing species and the nitrite removing species (Nitrospira) do not do well when the ammonia or nitrite are over 5 ppm. 

6) When the ammonia and nitrite both hit zero 24 hours after you have added the ammonia the cycle is done. You can challenge the bacteria by adding a bit more than 3 ppm ammonia, and it should be able to handle that, too, within 24 hours. 

7) Now test the nitrate. Probably sky high! 
Do as big a water change as needed to lower the nitrate until it is safe for fish. Certainly well under 20, and a lot lower is better. This may call for more than one water change, and up to 100% water change is not a problem. Remember the dechlor!
If you will be stocking right away (within 24 hours) no need to add more ammonia. If stocking will be delayed keep feeding the bacteria by adding ammonia to 3 ppm once a day. You will need to do another water change right before adding the fish.
__________________________

Helpful hints:

A) You can run a fishless cycle in a bucket to grow bacteria on almost any filter media like bio balls, sponges, ceramic bio noodles, lava rock or Matala mats. Simply set up any sort of water circulation such as a fountain pump or air bubbler and add the media to the bucket. Follow the directions for the fishless cycle. When the cycle is done add the media to the filter. I have run a canister filter in a bucket and done the fishless cycle.

B) The nitrogen cycle bacteria will live under a wide range of conditions and bounce back from minor set backs. By following the set up suggestions in part 1a) you are setting up optimum conditions for fastest reproduction and growth.
GH and KH can be as low as 1 degree, but watch it! These bacteria use the carbon in carbonates, and if it is all used up (KH = 0) the bacteria may die off. 
pH as low as 6.5 is OK, but by 6.0 the bacteria are not going to be doing very well. They are still there, and will recover pretty well when conditions get better. 
Temperature almost to freezing is OK, but they must not freeze, and they are not very active at all. They do survive in a pond, but they are slow to warm up and get going in the spring. This is where you might need to grow some in a bucket in a warm place and supplement the pond population. Too warm is not good, either. Tropical or room temperature tank temperatures are best. (68 to 85*F or 20 to 28*C)
Moderate oxygen can be tolerated for a while. However, to remove lots of ammonia and nitrite these bacteria must have oxygen. They turn one into the other by adding oxygen. If you must stop running the filter for an hour or so, no problem. If longer, remove the media and keep it where it will get more oxygen. 
Once the bacteria are established they can tolerate some fish medicines. This is because they live in a complex film called Bio film on all the surfaces in the filter and the tank. Medicines do not enter the bio film well. 
These bacteria do not need to live under water. They do just fine in a humid location. They live in healthy garden soil, as well as wet locations. 

C) Planted tanks may not tolerate 3 ppm or 5 ppm ammonia. It is possible to cycle the tank at lower levels of ammonia so the plants do not get ammonia burn. Add ammonia to only 1 ppm, but test twice a day, and add ammonia as needed to keep it at 1 ppm. The plants are also part of the bio filter, and you may be able to add the fish sooner, if the plants are thriving.


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## lee739 (Oct 12, 2014)

How much ammonia did you add at the beginning? Have you added more since? Sounds like you have too much ammonia even for the filter bacteria to thrive?


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## someoldguy (Feb 26, 2014)

I'll agree with Diana about OD'ing on the ammonia . There's more than one way to cycle a tank . The fish less cycle works , probably faster than what I recommended ( and is the way I've been starting tanks for 40+years , save for the recommendation of SafeStart) . Probably there's others out there in the ozone who have different methods than both of us .


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## kayjay2C (Sep 22, 2014)

Ummm. . . I must admit, lee739,I tossed out my notes in disgust just before starting this thread. So no, I can't say precisely what level of ammonia I was aiming for when I first started! :redface: The method I was following used a higher level than Diana's method (which I hadn't seen before) and it's certainly possible I overdid it. It did seem like I added a slosh, tested, had to add another slosh and retest numerous times. 

But wouldn't subsequent WCs mitigate the overage eventually if no further ammonia was added? That's the thing that baffles me, if I don't add any and fish don't add any where is the extra coming from? 

Since you both agree, someoldguy and Diana, that draining and refilling is the way to go at this point, I'll give that a try. And then follow Diana's quicker fishless method. If the ammonia keeps creeping upward it just about HAS to be something in/on the red cinders. They came from a disused pit on a farm so cattle, sheep, horses, overgrown weeds and irrigation runoff could all have contributed "organic matter" over the years.

Thanks guys, I'll keep you updated as things progress!


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## lee739 (Oct 12, 2014)

kayjay2C said:


> ....
> 
> But wouldn't subsequent WCs mitigate the overage eventually if no further ammonia was added? That's the thing that baffles me, if I don't add any and fish don't add any where is the extra coming from?
> ....


Depends on how far off the initial amount was off target... 
I've seen people get it wrong by 10-100x.....


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

The test kit tops out at a certain (low) level. If you had way more than that, then did a 50% change it would still read right up at the top.


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## kayjay2C (Sep 22, 2014)

*Lesson Learned!*

I drained the tank, was going to just let it sit with the wet sand / gravel overnight but my boyfriend had a better idea. He scooped out all the substrate, got out his gold-mining classifier screens and washed it. Then put it all back and left it overnight. We left the ammonia-laden water in the canister filter, just refilled the tank itself.

Test results 24 hrs after refill: Ammonia 1.0, NitrIte 1.0, NitrAte 15

I really must have had my brain switched off when I added the ammonia, it was pure Operator Error! This is why I chose to do a fishless cycle, didn't want to be a murderer! (Sounds like a Dumb Blonde joke. . .:hihi

Since there are nitrites and nitrates showing, do you think the cycle will complete successfully if I just add a pinch of fish food? I sure don't want to risk overdoing the ammonia AGAIN!!


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## lee739 (Oct 12, 2014)

Most test kits measure nitrate by first reducing it to nitrite, so you may not be able to trust the nitrate reading until nitrites are zero.


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## someoldguy (Feb 26, 2014)

Why not give it a couple of days , maybe until New Year's to see if anything's going on .A little bit of flake food won't harm anything at this point . Something bacterial may well have been going on during the time the tank was OD'd , just didn't get picked up by the tests , or wasn't significant . If the tanks showing signs of cycling , then you've got a New Years gift , if not then, bring on the ( much smaller amounts of ) ammonia ; it's fish less cycle time .


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## kayjay2C (Sep 22, 2014)

Thanks, that's prolly the best thing to do. I'm itching to get this tank planted and stocked but the holiday thing is hectic enough without adding the worry of monitoring new livestock! 

There's not much change in the readings so yeah I think a SMALL bit of ammonia will be needed to kickstart the process. And I can add at least a few plants in the next few days so that should help too.


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

Go ahead and 'scape and plant it. (I know, just what you need in the holiday rush!)
Plants do not mind a bit of ammonia. Aquatic plants are OK to 1 ppm, and many plants are just fine with more, but to be safe 1 ppm would be my target. 

Dose the ammonia to no more than 1 ppm, but check it twice a day.


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## kayjay2C (Sep 22, 2014)

Diana said:


> Go ahead and 'scape and plant it. (I know, just what you need in the holiday rush!)


Actually that's just the thing to counteract the craziness! I'm not into mallhopping, a plantbuying expedition will be far more fun! :wink:

Good to know things will progress with lower ammonia levels. I'm checking twice a day, so far it's been hovering at or just above 1. Thanks for all the help, everyone!


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

That sounds good. Yes, hovering at 1 ppm will grow plenty of bacteria. Just keep checking it. If it is coming from the substrate, it will gradually stop, and as the bacteria colony grows they will remove it that much faster. 
Then you would need to add a small amount.


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## kayjay2C (Sep 22, 2014)

I did manage to obtain a few bunches of stem plants yesterday, sorry but the only one I can ID for sure is water wisteria. Also got a marimo moss ball which fits in nicely with the roundish rocks I'm using. 

This morning's test was encouraging: Ammonia close to 0, NitrIte .25, NitrAte 20. I did add just about a teaspoon of ammonia at this point. Finally, things are progressing more or less normally, hooray!


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## someoldguy (Feb 26, 2014)

Congrats … I'll bet life suddenly looks better .


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## ErtyJr (Jun 21, 2014)

just glimpsed through quickly, but 8 ppm ammonia actually inhibits bacteria growth. you need to get it to 2 ppm, and try to hold it there.

ok read through more guewss you already knew that. congrats on the 0 ammonia. nitrite will still take time, but you need to keep it slightly elevated to continue the cycle. try to keep some ammonia in there to continue feeding nitrite. but don't let the nitrite get to high either.


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## kayjay2C (Sep 22, 2014)

Thanks guys. It feels like forever since I've been able to set up tanks! I'm just so impatient to get fish into this one, but I can't afford a disaster so just gotta wait it out.


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