# New guy, some Finnex Planted+ 24/7 Questions



## klibs (May 1, 2014)

What is 'semi-automatic' vs 'manual' CO2?

I don't know much about the 24/7 fixture itself but for CO2 all that matters is that the plants have access to abundant (~30ppm or more) CO2 when they need it (lights are on). That means it has to be properly diffused / dissolved into your water and you have enough flow to distribute it throughout the tank. The majority of people use a timer to turn their CO2 on an hour or so before lights come on to make sure that there is enough in the water column. Then a lot of people just turn it off when the lights go off so that they don't waste CO2 when the plants don't need it.

If you want to do CO2 right just get a pressurized setup and a 5lb tank.

Plants like hair grass and HC or other foreground plants will do fine with 50-60 PAR at the substrate. HC in particular really doesn't need that much light. It is the good CO2 they crave to grow and spread.


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## Reefer94 (Jul 8, 2015)

klibs said:


> What is 'semi-automatic' vs 'manual' CO2?
> 
> I don't know much about the 24/7 fixture itself but for CO2 all that matters is that the plants have access to abundant (~30ppm or more) CO2 when they need it (lights are on). That means it has to be properly diffused / dissolved into your water and you have enough flow to distribute it throughout the tank. The majority of people use a timer to turn their CO2 on an hour or so before lights come on to make sure that there is enough in the water column. Then a lot of people just turn it off when the lights go off so that they don't waste CO2 when the plants don't need it.
> 
> ...



Semi automatic runs on a timer with a solenoid. Manual you have to crank it open by hand to fill up the diffuser chamber, then turn it back off, every day. I'm assuming full-auto would run off of sensors. I'm implementing the semi auto w/ a 5lb tank next month. For now, I have to inject manually. But the question isn't about C02 per se, it's about the relationship between the Co2 timing and this particular light.

This is really the question, to clarify: Since the 24/7 light is never "off" .. it goes through photoperiod adjustments, dimming and brightening, throughout the day, when should the Co2 kick on? Should it come on when the light reaches full PAR (11:30am) or should it come on as it ramps up (9:30am)? Am I better off ditching the 24/7 mode and using a standard timer?

With the T5 it was easy. The light comes on, inject the Co2. With the 24/7, there is no distinct "on" phase, so I'm wondering when to start the Co2 as it relates to the graph I linked. 

And as an aside, does the photoperiod on the 24/7 provide a long enough "high light" photoperiod to sustain high light plants.


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## mattinmd (Aug 16, 2014)

I've been pondering this exact same question myself... 

The whole "slowly changing through the day" type of lighting model is nice, but it is very different from how aquarium lighting is normally done today.. 

That really "breaks the model" of the current wisdom on CO2 injection, where you turn your CO2 on/off an hour before your lights...

The way I see it, you've got 2 options:

1) go *fully* automatic, and use a pH controller with the CO2. This way the CO2 injection rate will automatically follow the plants needs. As the light increases, plant uptake will increase, and the injection rate will too.

2) go with the timer-method "Semi-automatic" and experiment. There's likely to be some magic point where the light levels start demanding decent CO2 injection rates in your tank, but right now I don't think anyone has the experience to say exactly where that happens... 

My gut feeling is you'll want it on about 1 hour before the light crosses the 35 PAR line, and off about 1 hour before it drops below 35PAR. Where exactly that happens depends on tank depth..

If you look at my longer review :
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=871385&highlight=


I included that same graph, but also linked to a post where you can get the text-file that was used to generate it, and some in-tank PAR measurements at various depths (all done using a Hoppy 2015 meter)...

My intent is that the graph numbers are all roughly laid out so that MAX is 100 PAR (ok, I really got 99, but close enough)... Thus, you could use the PAR value at any given timeslot as a percentage scale, and use it against the depth-based numbers I measured...

So, at 12", I measured 75 PAR at MAX..

At 11am, the graph measured 69 PAR... so at 11am in a 12" deep tank you should be at 75 *.69 = 51.75 PAR

In theory you could build out a chart like DHElder did...

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showpost.php?p=7847689&postcount=221


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## Reefer94 (Jul 8, 2015)

Great stuff here, thanks. 

Yeah automatic Co2 would be nice. And it's probably the only way to fully guarantee the dosage time. That type on investment for such a small tank is something I'd really have to think over.

This is excellent info though and I'll continue my research. As of now I'm thinking like you, and will probably start my C02 in the 10:00 - 10:30 timeframe and go from there.

It's a great light, it's no EcoTech Radeon... of course, it's not $800 either  I'm really looking forward to a time when planted tank LED is as specialized as it's saltwater counterparts. That way, you'd have much more control of what to turn on and when.

I appreciate the responses, and any other 24/7 owners feel free to chime in with your schedules and results!!


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## Reefer94 (Jul 8, 2015)

Sigh... After pretty obsessive levels of research, I may be going crazy  I'm a bit frustrated so sorry if this comes off like a vent. I did manage to convince myself to go full-auto Co2.

I'm now concerned with the length of the high-light photoperiod and whether or not the "low range" of high light will satisfy my future goals for the tank (carpet, baby tears, etc). My conundrum is this - I want customization of the light cycle... AND high light. 

I come from an extensive reef background and I KNOW what LEDs can do. To take this technology and throw it on a timer like a normal light just won't work for me.

I don't mind the 24/7s cycle being pre-programmed, but it seems that it's inherently flawed with it's 5 hr peak brightness. So now, I have two options:


Slap another 24/7 on the tank and overlap the ramp times so i get a longer photoperiod.
Return the 24/7 and invest in something like the Radion FW XR15 and call it a day.
Would two of these lights put me where I want to be, or completely fry my tank? Am I better off ditching it and going Radion? I don't want BML lights as they also have not perfected the control software and those need to be run on a timer even with the controller. I want sleek, fewer cables, fewer lights, and control I can expect from LEDs in 2015. 

Is there an option I'm not considering? Am I overthinking this? lol.

FYI, I don't mind spending money if it is exactly what I want, cost isn't a huge issue. I'm also majorly OCD (if you haven't noticed) and having two different light styles, like a 24/7 and a ray2 etc over my tank will drive me absolutely nuts.

Thanks for you time, and putting up with the ranting of a fellow aqua-obsessed citizen. 

Freaking fish tanks. I swear.


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## PortalMasteryRy (Oct 16, 2012)

IMHO lighting is one aspect in growing plants. You can pretty much grow anything under any condition as long as you meet the requirements to grow the plants in that condition.

My suggestion is to work with what you have then adjust or adapt accordingly based on how well you grow the plants you want. 

Focus on growing plants! I would not worry too much about being able to control the lights that well. When I started doing LED lights, I was happy being able to just get the PAR needed to grow plants and not even worry about light color, ramping up and down of lights, etc. If you include these factors into your setup then you'll drive yourself crazy. Again focus on the plants. Setup your light and time it for 8-10 hours, dial in the C02 and figure out the fertilization. 

Once the plants start growing then observe and adjust based on how you want your plants to grow. IMHO just getting plants growing is often overlooked because we focus too much on other aspect of the tank. Most people focus on fighting algae growth, figuring out the right C02 diffusion, lighting intensity and color in their tanks that they forget to ask "are my plants growing?" 

Keep it simply and focus on growing plants don't let one aspect of planted tanks make you crazy because you still have C02 and ferts to figure out !! ahahah


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## Reefer94 (Jul 8, 2015)

PortalMasteryRy said:


> IMHO lighting is one aspect in growing plants. You can pretty much grow anything under any condition as long as you meet the requirements to grow the plants in that condition.
> 
> My suggestion is to work with what you have then adjust or adapt accordingly based on how well you grow the plants you want.
> 
> ...


I get what you are saying, for sure. However, for me, part of the wonder of this hobby is the intricacy and detail. Being too "adaptive" in this hobby generally leads to a closet full of replaced and unused supplies and tons of wasted money in the long run. If I've learned anything from the saltwater end of things, it's to buy the absolute best you can afford. Create an environment that will move along with you as you learn and grow. Otherwise, you are just going to run through way more money and worry over time swapping out lights, filters, and other components, for the ones you should have bought to begin with. It's a lot like power tools (my other $$ problem  )

I'm a lifer with this stuff, so I'm beyond the point of it being a passing hobby - or "getting my feet wet" so to speak.

Either way, I've decided that one 24/7 won't suit my long term needs and will wind up in the closet at some point. I'm pursuing other light options at this time.

I appreciate the input from everyone, it's been helpful. Sometimes jumping on a forum, writing things out, and spinning my wheels a bit helps out (in and of itself).


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## MtAnimals (May 17, 2015)

you do know the light can be set to full on then ran off a timer like any other light right? 

If you do decide to replace it,I'd like to be first in line to buy it when you're ready to part with it


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## klibs (May 1, 2014)

I agree completely with mattinmd

"full-auto" CO2 on a pH controller is definitely the way to go so good call on that one.

I feel like with a radion you will either have to accept a lot of spill out of the front and back of your tank or deal with inconsistent lighting from side to side. Your PAR might be a lot higher in the middle of the tank vs the outer left and right edges. I could be wrong about this but my gut tells me you might run into the same problems as putting a single pendant-style fixture over a rectangular tank.

I would personally go with a suspended BML Dutch XB. It would look great and it only has one cord coming out of it which you could easily just wrap up one of the suspension cables for a sleek look.

I'm sure in the next 3 years we will have some excellent lighting options like what you are looking for. Right now I think BML is one of the best options for high-output bar fixtures. I love my 2x Dutch XB fixtures - they look great sitting on the tank (especially in black)


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