# Bio balls or no Bio balls?



## DvsDev (Dec 7, 2010)

Is the inlet flowing into the sump or splashing in?
I have read on the forum of people running sumps before with good results and they all mentioned that if it's flowing in that it won't affect the co2 much at all.

Actually if I ran a sump I'd probably put the heater and co2 in there so there's less in my tank.


----------



## johnny313 (Apr 15, 2011)

I'm not sure if it flows or splashes!  
the water that enters the sump hits a 15" x 15" sponge filter pad and then runs down over the bio balls. The heater is in the sump but I was told that the CO2 shouldnt be in the sump because the water level in the return section is only 5" high.


----------



## metallicanick78 (Apr 26, 2011)

I have a similar setup and if I were to use co2 then I would want the bioballs and sponge to be submerged. you want the tube carrying water into the sump to be underwater when it enters. When my water level gets low in the sump then the water falls out of the tube and splashes into the sump, that sound lets me know its time to add more water. 
Plus as an added bonus, if the sponge and bio balls are being trickled on, then the bacteria are useing atmospheric O2 and probably releasing co2 to the air. If they are submerged then they will use o2 from the water, but put more co2 into the water! probably not a measurable amount but, when Im not running any co2, every little bit helps!

edit*** also if you have more water in the sump, then you could inject your co2 in the sump pump chamber!


----------



## xmas_one (Feb 5, 2010)

You said plants are growing rapidly. That should be your answer right there.


----------



## johnny313 (Apr 15, 2011)

but in order to have bacteria, you need to have them out of the water. bio balls are useless submerged... remember, this is my main filtration for the tank....


----------



## johnny313 (Apr 15, 2011)

xmas_one said:


> You said plants are growing rapidly. That should be your answer right there.


I guess if it's not broke, dont fix it huh? 
I guess I just want the maximum usage out of my co2


----------



## metallicanick78 (Apr 26, 2011)

who said bacteria have to be out of the water? your substrate probably has the largest amount of beneficial bacteria out of your whole setup. How would a UGF work without it?


----------



## johnny313 (Apr 15, 2011)

i was always under the impression that bio balls are sold with a wet / dry filter. meaning they work best out of water with water running through it.


----------



## metallicanick78 (Apr 26, 2011)

There sold for lots of systems. they work great in wet drys, but work just as well (id argue better in planted tanks) submerged. its the same idea as using a "bio-wheel" hob verses a regular hob. more o2 in the atmosphere than there is in water so in theory they should work more efficently when exposed. but Id argue that a different bacteria species colonizes in and out of water. neither of which theory has been proven, but it has been proven that bio balls work well in both environments. 

A submerged population of bacteria is utilized in hob's, box filters, ugf's, sponge filters and canister filters, among others. atm I have nothing in my sump and that is my only source of filtration, aside from my substrate which has cycled my tank completly.


----------



## Kathyy (Feb 22, 2010)

If you are able to get a drop in pH with the addition of CO2 then your system is working fine. With an uncovered wet dry you are outgassing CO2 but it is your money and time spent to refill the tank. 

I would cover the sump as best you can though. I love my sump but hate the nagging when it gets low and the pump sucks air. Covering should help with evaporation and keep some CO2 from escaping. My messy sump was most easily covered with bubble wrap wadded in all around.

The bioball bacterial colony need O2 and having them above the water means when power is out they will survive longer. They would die fastest in a closed system like a canister and last longer in an open sump and longest in a sealed air filled tower.


----------



## DaveK (Jul 10, 2010)

In my personal experience I found that bioballs work much better out of water than submerged. Under water they tend to be tremendous oxygen consumers. This is not as bad as it sounds because most systems use enough water flow to overcome this. 

I found this out years ago when trickle filters using bioballs were all the rage in reef systems. 

The first thing I found out was that bioballs do give fantastic gas exchange. I hooked up my new DIY trickle filter, and turned the system on. Previously the system using more or less conventional canister filters with reverse flow under gravel filters. The water coming out of the trickle filter had a mass of micro bubbles in it, almost to the point where it looked like it was filled with club soda or Sprite. I even though something was wrong, but after about an hour things settled down and it looked normal. All those micro bubbles was CO2 being gassed out. Everything in the tank perked way up, and this method of filtration was a vast improvement on what existed before.

The second thing I found out was that bioballs do much better out of water. I redid my trickle filter, installing an egg crate plate on about 4 inch PVC standoffs to keep them out of the water. The oxygen level improved slightly, and the redox reading improved. (Redox readings, on a very simplified basis in an aquarium, can sort of be though of as a measure of pollution or water quality. It's a lot more complex that that, but it's a place to start)

So the bottom line is, bioballs will degass CO2, but you can compensate for this by using more. Bioballs will consume oxygen, so if possible keep them out of the water.


----------



## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

Bio balls remained in my final version but the tower and the trickle got left behind. Using dividers and baskets all my mechanical and bio filtration remain submerged and splash is kept to a minimum along with the sump being covered with glass.

No complaints from the fish.

Below shows the dividers in place. Flow is from right to left as pictured.
The first glass panel has flow restriction at the bottom so it floods full almost matching pump flow and this is where my drains enter. If imbalance exits then water spills over the top into the second chamber. I keep filter pad attached to this exposed glass area so the water can wick down and not splash.









Installed shot in the stand.









Sump filtration rocks over canisters for ease of maintenance and cost long term (disclaimer; in my opinion LOL)


----------



## ReefkprZ (Aug 21, 2010)

BIo balls do wok best above the water line. Because the extreme amount of oxygen available allow for extra dense colonies of nitrifying bacteria. submerged the bio balls are not as effective because the colonies of bacteria have to be sparser due to lower oxygen content and availability in the water. 

the short long of it is. bio balls will work both submerged and out of the water, BUT they have a higher filtration capacity in the air with water trickling over them. thats why they are meketed for wet/dry filters. its how they are most efficient.


----------



## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

All to true regarding wet/dry but how much bio filtering do we _really_ need in a planted tank?
Combine that with the balance of CO2 injection and choose what works for your situation. Cut CO2 use by over 50% reducing the splash.
Back on the Bio topic following Walstad's work I decided to concern myself with healthy plant growth and water circulation rather than heavy filtration. I have 4 55g fully planted, fully stocked tanks that use only sponge equipped 15w power heads.

Latest two I set up.









Waters clean enough for the Angels and me :smile:


----------



## Java Moss (Jan 17, 2011)

Bio-balls, I've found, work great with the bottom-half-water/top-half-air - particularly with new-tank cycling. Enormous muck growth within a couple weeks using simply fish food and few zebra danios - parameters fantastic. 

Matrix, Eheim Substrate, AC Biomax and cut drinking straws - feh. Sure - has a little more surface area, but take forever to grow bacteria because they're 100% submerged or don't have the water-pass-through like BB do.


----------



## johnny313 (Apr 15, 2011)

how often do you clean bio balls? should I just fill a 5 gallon bucket with tank water and "shake" them off?


----------



## Java Moss (Jan 17, 2011)

johnny313 said:


> how often do you clean bio balls? should I just fill a 5 gallon bucket with tank water and "shake" them off?


You can swish them around in a bucket of tank water to "clean" them, but I just leave the muck on there since it's bacterial growth - the more the better. 

SIDE NOTE: Just saw a "nitrate reducer" for store tanks over the holiday weekend and all it had in it was mucky bio-balls. Asked an employee about it and he claimed it's the quickest and most efficient in creating the ideal bacterial growth to keep everything in check. Possibly the clearest water I've ever seen at a store, actually. He didn't elaborate whether it was cycled half-in-and-half-out of water though. Wish I would have asked. 

Monfort Aquarium in Cincinnati was the name of the place...just in case any Cincy folks are reading this thread.


----------



## ReefkprZ (Aug 21, 2010)

not to be a downer on the magic nitrate reducer but.... 

the aerobic bacteria that grows on bio-balls reduces ammonia to nitrite and nitrite to nitrate, but absolutely cannot break down nitrate. you need anaerobic bacteria for that. Ask that store what science it is that reduces the nitrates, I'll bet the answer is "dunno but it wurks" or something like that.

its a marketing ploy. (or if they aren't selling it they are just trying to make you think their water is better than yours)

you can have sparkling clear water and buku nitrates. check out some of the EI dosed tanks on here they have tons of nitrates but the water clear.

any aerobic bio-media functions on these factors alone

1 surface area
2 oxygen availability
3 food availability

That's it.


----------



## ReefkprZ (Aug 21, 2010)

johnny313 said:


> how often do you clean bio balls? should I just fill a 5 gallon bucket with tank water and "shake" them off?


I always clean mine when they start to look gunky. or at water changes I'll grab a hand full or two and swish them and hose them with the siphon water. you can't let the areas in the spines fill with gunk because it reduces surface area of the ball. granted the mulm and muck does have live bacteria in it, its not as much as can colonize the solid surface where there is plenty of oxygen once you get layers of guck the oxygen then has to work through gunk to let the bacteria breathe. not asmuch oxygen getting through means not as much bacterial density.


----------

