# roybot73. ADA 60-P. 2.2



## Ozymandias (Jan 17, 2008)

my god that must be a fortune of supplies there.


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## ColeMan (Mar 9, 2008)

Can't wait to see your progress! Let me guess...i don't see any bags of substrate laying around...let me guess: you're using Colorquartz "Cayman Green!" :smile:


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Haha! [waynesworld]SCHWIIINNG![/waynesworld] Can't wait to see the green substrate!


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

I got a sweet day-glo pink and yellow skull for my Jellybean Parrotfish to hang out in too!!! :icon_wink

It's actually going to have a Nile Sand foreground. I'll get some pics of it on the stand later this weekend. Still not sure I like the light sitting on the rimless tank edges... Might go with something different.


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## NeonShrimp (Mar 9, 2006)

:icon_lol:


> I got a sweet day-glo pink and yellow skull for my Jellybean Parrotfish to hang out in too!!!


Thanks alot "showoff" now you make me want to go and buy stuff too! I must resist, must resist:help:

Oh yeah, hope all goes well with your tank:thumbsup:


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## waterfaller1 (Jul 5, 2006)

It looks like an ad for ADA..lol. I can't wait to see what you have planned for it.


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

omg I almost had a heart attack when I saw all that delicious stuff. I'm expecting great things out of you bro, so the pressure is on!! :icon_twis


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

ADA is the apple computers of the aquarium world.. Neat packaging and expensive...


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## khoile (Jan 27, 2005)

Nice tank.. too bad ADA doesn't make huge 180+ gallon tank. Their silicone work is 2nd to none (well elos is probaly similar but in black).


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

khoile said:


> Nice tank.. too bad ADA doesn't make huge 180+ gallon tank. Their silicone work is 2nd to none (well elos is probaly similar but in black).


They make a 180P... :thumbsup:


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## rasetsu (Oct 11, 2007)

Baller!


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## rountreesj (Jun 12, 2007)

one word right now:


JEALOUS!:thumbsup:


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## ColeMan (Mar 9, 2008)

mistergreen said:


> ADA is the apple computers of the aquarium world.. Neat packaging and expensive...


Although I don't personally own an ADA tank, I think they're quite astounding...I think the ADA product line--in many instances--is more than just witty marketing or "neat packaging," but I can definitely see where you're coming from. And remember: you get what you pay for (usually).


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## Wö£fëñxXx (Dec 2, 2003)

Nice, I am assuming that is a 60cm, you will truly
enjoy it.
I have a 60cm and a 120P, so I am set for life.

I would have got the V5 instead of V3 though.
What kind of light system is planned?


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## fishscale (May 29, 2007)

Wö£fëñxXx said:


> I have a 60cm and a 120P, so I am set for life.


Liar.


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## Wö£fëñxXx (Dec 2, 2003)

fishscale said:


> Liar.


Am not, my daddy can beat up your daddy.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Wö£fëñxXx said:


> Nice, I am assuming that is a 60cm, you will truly
> enjoy it.
> I have a 60cm and a 120P, so I am set for life.
> 
> ...


It is indeed 60cm. I got the V3 based on the ADA catalog recommendations, I think it'll be just fine. In my 20L, the intake reaches down pretty far and I'm constantly cleaning hairgrass and other crap off of it. Right now the lighting is a 130W Coralife, but like I said before, I'm not crazy about having the light sit directly on the rimless tank. It doesn't leave room to raise the Lily for aeration. You might see the light on the S&S _very_ soon... If anyone reads this and is interested, shoot me a pm.


Thank you all for your comments! I should be in the basement putting the finishing touches on the stand:icon_roll


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## htn86 (Sep 30, 2007)

I wonder how much it cost you to take that picture? :thumbsup::eek5:


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## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

roybot73 said:


> but like I said before, I'm not crazy about having the light sit directly on the rimless tank.


agreed here, open top IS the best.


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

ikuzo said:


> agreed here, open top IS the best.


Trust me bro, I had a coralife sitting on top of my 75P and it wasn't there for long. I absolutely couldn't stand having a ugly fixture sitting on top of my beautiful rimless ADA tank. So I got rid of it and hung a Metal Halide pendant from my cieling. MUCH BETTER!! It made a world of difference.

For your tank may I recommend any of these Lights

24" Tek Staggering the bulbs of course...

70w Metal Halide

This ADA light Verrryy slick :thumbsup:


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Cm --

I laid awake in bed last night trying to justify the ADA SolarII... Just seems a bit too much $$$ for a CF fixture -- even if it IS ADA 

I've spent the morning scouring  the net for the best price on a 70w HQI...

Anyone ever heard of this place? 
http://www.allwatermeters.com/aqua-...-mh-systems-inlcudes-bulbs---hanging-kit.html

Seems to have the best price so far...

I'm locked and loaded -- It's going to be a MH for sure


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

roybot73 said:


> Cm --
> 
> I laid awake in bed last night trying to justify the ADA SolarII... Just seems a bit too much $$$ for a CF fixture -- even if it IS ADA
> 
> ...


YES, I LOVE MH. Good choice I must say, go for it.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

It'll be here in 5-7 days...

I'll wait to put the other fixture on the S&S till the new one gets here. It'll be a sweeeeeet deal for someone!


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

roybot73 said:


> It'll be here in 5-7 days...
> 
> I'll wait to put the other fixture on the S&S till the new one gets here. It'll be a sweeeeeet deal for someone!


Awesome, Metal Halide goodness :thumbsup:


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

wow, i hope you like it. 

now i feel left out, all i have are PCs and one tank with a T5.
do you know which plants will go in this tank (or did you already tell us and i should have checked the first page before posting)?


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Moss (spiky Willow), ferns (Bolbitis, Needle & 'regular' Java), a few species of crypts, Lim Aro and Cyperus Helferi for the background...
I'm still kind of planning it out in my head and making sketches. I kind of want something "moody" and deep looking.

This really inspired me:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/greenbrightly/sets/72157594432224865/

As well as this:


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Completed construction of the cabinet over the weekend and got it finished with 6 coats of tung oil. I ended up installing new hinges because the stupid non-mortise hinges are completely un-adjustable. Just have to drill for and install the grommet for the CO2.

Hopefully plants start showing up this week, I wanna get thing thing filled! I found and ordered some 8000k 70w HQI bulbs. Haven't heard ANYTHING from http://www.allwatermeters.com/aqua-...-mh-systems-inlcudes-bulbs---hanging-kit.html regarding my order. Kind of nervous about that, but they have an ebay store with very good feedback and 'fast shipping' comments... We'll see, I guess...

Finished Cabinet Front.










Back (still needs a spit coat of tung oil on the outside back, inside and edges are finished).










Tank On!


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

VERY nice and flush. I'm so excited to see what yo do with this bro!


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## TLH (Apr 20, 2008)

The stand looks nice. Get all the stuff in it and give us a shot of the insides. Are the side grommets for the piping or is that going up the back through holes that are not there yet?


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Thanks guys!

TLH - Side grommets are for filter tubing to Lily Pipes. See my 20L thread for shots of my other cabinet with the same grommets. They make for a
nice clean look IMO.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Very nice! I love the look of natural wood oils :thumbsup:


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## TLH (Apr 20, 2008)

roybot73 said:


> Thanks guys!
> 
> TLH - Side grommets are for filter tubing to Lily Pipes. See my 20L thread for shots of my other cabinet with the same grommets. They make for a
> nice clean look IMO.


I agree it looks ok but on a longish tank is there much water movement at the other end when you have inlet and outlet close together like that?


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## deMastro (Mar 18, 2008)

I am green of envy. 

I am looking forward to see your tank filled .


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## ColeMan (Mar 9, 2008)

you did a really nice job on the stand, and I totally agree about the grommets really "streamlining" the look. I like seeing that things were done purposefully, even something as easily overlooked as a finishing piece around the grommet does not go unnoticed in my book! Details are what distinguishes a tank from a _tank_.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

wow nice stand, its just like the one i have from IKEA, but you made yours yourself. thats impressive.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

TLH said:


> I agree it looks ok but on a longish tank is there much water movement at the other end when you have inlet and outlet close together like that?


If you're referring to my 20, there is _absolutely_ enough movement on the other end! I have my CO2 diffuser exactly opposite the outflow, and it gets blown around the tank very evenly.

If you're referring to the 60-P, take a look at this...










I think I'll be just fine .


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

are those all yours? they are a bunch of the most beautiful tanks, and so many of them too. i bet all the ada stuff cost a fortune.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

@[email protected] said:


> are those all yours? they are a bunch of the most beautiful tanks, and so many of them too. i bet all the ada stuff cost a fortune.


Oh my, no!!! Those are at the ADA Gallery in Niigata!!!

Check out this: http://akuatic.no.sapo.pt/Nature Aquarium Gallery/a2.html

Absolutely mind-blowing...


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

@[email protected] said:


> are those all yours? they are a bunch of the most beautiful tanks, and so many of them too. i bet all the ada stuff cost a fortune.


HAHAHA that was great bro, truly hilarious. That's Amano's "Hangout" lol :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

shut up
jk

wow... there are websites with amano tank pictures i havent drooled over yet.


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## TLH (Apr 20, 2008)

roybot73 said:


> If you're referring to my 20, there is _absolutely_ enough movement on the other end! I have my CO2 diffuser exactly opposite the outflow, and it gets blown around the tank very evenly.
> 
> If you're referring to the 60-P, take a look at this...
> 
> ...


Nice to know. I'll bear that in mind if ever I do a free standing tank. All mine have been up against a wall so really only get viewed from one side so everything goes behind one long side and in the corners.


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

@[email protected] said:


> shut up
> jk
> 
> wow... there are websites with amano tank pictures i havent drooled over yet.


Yes you shall find them quite "drool worthy" :drool:


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## rountreesj (Jun 12, 2007)

I need to clean the drool off my keyboard...and go buy a plane ticket to Japan.


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## travis (Nov 17, 2004)

I think you're really going to like the color of those 8000K MH bulbs. I've set up a couple tanks using the 150w version and there really is no other bulb with color anything like it. They're as close to perfect as planted tank lighting gets, in my opinion. This is going to be a very nice setup


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

travis said:


> I think you're really going to like the color of those 8000K MH bulbs. I've set up a couple tanks using the 150w version and there really is no other bulb with color anything like it. They're as close to perfect as planted tank lighting gets, in my opinion. This is going to be a very nice setup


+1, they are perfect. I have an ADA 150W 8000K HQI in my Aquamedic Oceanlight 150W Metal Halide Pendant and I'm never going back to anything else, not even a good T5HO system. It's PERFECT :thumbsup:


*let the flame wars commence :hihi:


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

It's planted...

What a long day! Just finished planting, and firing up the systems. No leaks

Even though the HQI fixture isn't here yet, I made the hanging bracket (Tom Barr style -- bent 1/2" conduit -- only took 2 tries) I'm pretty happy with the bends.

Mmmm... Nile Sand....










Lily Vortex.










I've gotta say, nothing compares to the real-deal ADA Lily pipes. They're beefy, they're unbelieveably well made, the whirlpool is more powerful than the knock-offs' (although the Flo is pretty good...). I love 'em!!! Worth every penny.

I'm beat & I'm going to go crash out...........


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## deleted_user_16 (Jan 20, 2008)

beautiful!!!!


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## PasD (Sep 2, 2006)

Wow, awesome tank, can't wait for more pictures. All ADA hardware just makes a tank look clean and perfect.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

can we see a shot of the full tank?


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

@[email protected] said:


> can we see a shot of the full tank?


Not quite yet...:icon_mrgr 
I have some supplemental planting to do, and the room it's in is an absolute horrorshow of a mess...


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

ok, ill be patient; or try at least.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

patience is a virtue but i'm very lacking in that are.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Here she is...










Original Aquasoil (1000% better than ASII!!!)
Power Sand Special S
Tourmaline BC
Bacter 100
Nile Sand

Eheim 2215
Hydor 200w inline
ADA Lily Pipes (P2, V3)
5# CO2 cylinder
JBJ Reg
ADA Pollen Glass & Bubble Counter ( and again -- unbelievable quality...)
ADA Drop Checker
130w (2x65w) Coralife -- Will be replaced with 70w AquaMedic HQI Metal -Halide with 8000k bulb.

Green Brighty step 1
Green Brighty Shade
Brighty K
ECA
Green Gain 
Green Bacter
Phyton Git

Flora list to come later...


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## travis (Nov 17, 2004)

Very nice looking.

You forgot to mention ADA Riccia Rocks and, I'm guessing, Riccia Line


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

travis said:


> Very nice looking.
> 
> You forgot to mention ADA Riccia Rocks and, I'm guessing, Riccia Line


Are you kidding me? That stuff costs a fortune
Regular old rocks and regular old 4# test pulled right off my reel!

Thanks!


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

lol @ ricca line! You know it has superior holding abilities compared to regular fishing line... hehe. 

Tank looks great dude. Yet again the proven master of the teaser shot.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

its gonna look great, its got a good scape and a small fortune's worth of equipment.

yes, im not the only person who attaches riccia and moss to simple slate (i use thread though (since the bottom of riccia dies and rots before my thread decomposes).


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

very nice, I'm excited!


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## deleted_user_16 (Jan 20, 2008)

beautiful looking!!!


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Everything is settling in nicely. I think I may actually be able to keep my hands out of it today! (aside from wc...)

Added some Myriophyllum Mattogrossense and Teardrop Rotala yesterday...

Full plant list...

Cyperus helferi
Lilaeopsis Brasilensis
Crypt Petchii
Crypt Wenditii 'green'
Crypt Lucens
Crypt 'Tropica'
Myriophyllum mattogrossense
Teardrop Rotala
Limnophila Aromatica
Limnophila 'mini'
Echinodorus tennellus 
Peacock moss on wood and rocks
Needle leaf Java
Bolbitis heudelotii
Ludwigia arcuata

After a bit of a fiasco with the vendor, my order for the Aqua Medic 70w halide was cancelled. What a bunch of B.S. that place turned out to be. Wait a week to tell me that they're indefinitely back ordered, and then cancel my order? Thanks! I ordered another from hellolights.com, and it's scheduled to be delivered Fedex (to my work place...) on Saturday. I don't work on Saturday, so I'll see if I can pick it up from them. Otherwise I'll get it Monday.

Pic update Monday


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## rountreesj (Jun 12, 2007)

So you're going from 2x65watt compact flourescent to 1x70watt MH? how will that work out?...let me know if I missed something here... I am thinking of making a new canopy for my 55 with 2x70watt MH and 2x54watt T5. Thant would be insane right!!!???


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

rountreesj said:


> So you're going from 2x65watt compact flourescent to 1x70watt MH? how will that work out?...let me know if I missed something here... I am thinking of making a new canopy for my 55 with 2x70watt MH and 2x54watt T5. Thant would be insane right!!!???


 
Maybe you are missing something... I didn't mention that I'm only using 1 of the bulbs 
With both of them on, it's insanely, insanely bright. I think 70w of metal halide will be just right.

If I were you, I'd put 2 150w metal halides on a 55 gallon...


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

For some reason that looks like a 60H in the picture above...

I think I know why, and it's my one critique on the scape. I'm going to be honest here, as when I was setting up my scape I preferred constructive criticism over plain praise. 
It seems as though the hardscape, as nice as it is, goes straight from flat bottom hardscape (rocks and riccia) to vertical manzanita branches, that are all spread out and parallel to the front and back glass panes (Combining them to make one central structure may help drastically). This takes depth away from it, and gives it that abrupt "my eyes just hit a wall affect". If you have wood running from side to side, front to back, and diagonal to diagonal, it gives the tank depth.

I also think that the color of the bulbs on top of the tank right now may be giving the tank a bad hue. I'm excited to see it with the Halide.

As for the plants, I think you did a good job, but could use a bit more as large Ammonia spikes are coming, and you need some nutrient hogs in there. Looks great overall.


One question. How do you like your diffuser? Do any bubbles reach the surface, and do any slightly large bubbles ever come out of it, or are all of the bubbles near-microscopic. And do the bubbles come out of the entire disc, evenly dispersed? I received my beetle 30, and most of the bubbles produced are very small, a few are large enough to make it to the surface, even with the diffuser at the bottom of the tank. Also, a small portion of the disc never really spits out much of anything. Overall it's great, but not PERFECT. 100x better than my rhinox 5000, but not picture perfect (entire disc spitting out evenly dispersed near-microscopic bubbles that dissolve before reaching the surface, literally POLLINATING the tank) Thanks Roybot!


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Cm-- Thanks for the input. That pic does look a bit flat, and the light sitting on top gives it unneeded visual height. The wood (on the right) does span most of the front-to-back space, and I've added a few more rocks around the base of each stand of wood. I'll get some pics of the rocks, I think you'll be surprised how similar they look to Manten and Yamaya stones. The best part about them is the fact that my yard (and neighborhood for that matter) is absolutely littered with them!!! Free is good

Plenty more plants have been added since the initial setup, including a lot more moss on the branches. I like to look at a new setup for a day or two, and then fill in the blanks and smooth things over. Ammonia is being kept in check with 50% daily changes, and I've been dosing daily with Green Bacter as well. Bacter 100 was used in the substrate, and I toss a 1/4 teaspoon in every few days for good measure. NH3/NH4 is currently at ~1.5ppm.

As far as the diffuser goes... 
...I love it! A few errant bubbles reach the surface, but then again I've got it CRANKING right now at about 6+bps. They're pretty even across the disc surface, but not _perfect_ perfect. I would say, however, that it does indeed 'pollinate' with CO2. The micro-bubbles get blown to every square inch of the tank.

I've been thinking about fauna, and it might be Furcata Rainbows, Green Fire Tetras, Green Neons (if I can find them...) or maybe Pencilfish...


Oh, and by the way...

Something got dropped off a day early...
8K bulbs come on Monday.




















Rock!!!










Cheers!!!


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

Looks great, a lot better. Very nice improvement. I love it.

In terms of the diffuser, I e-mailed Jeff for a possible replacement, as the disc came scratched, and isn't doing nearly as good of a job as it should be doing for an ADA diffuser, with a decent amount of large bubbles, with have the disc not even diffusing. I do not doubt at all that this is most likely a one-off, completely isolated case, as I have the worst luck with products known to man. I'm quite frustrated, as I never seem to receive anything from anyone right the first time. It's gotten to the point where I can't judge companies and businesses by the service they give me, cause if I did I wouldn't be able to buy anything. My two worst experiences were with Dsfostersmith over my Metal Halide, which still hasn't been completely settled as I still have a spare system sitting around in a box, and with Apple (ironically my favorite company) over a defect on my Macbook, and one on my iPhone (both took months to settle). My parents always joke that it takes me twice as long to get anything off line cause I have to have it shipped once to my house, shipped back to the company, then shipped back to my house again, hopefully fixed, because it's guaranteed to have some defect if _I_ order it online.... I have a curse upon me and it's driving me nuts! I and hope no one gets bad impression of Jeff and ADG, as he is one of the nicest guys I've ever dealt with, who stands behind the quality of his products 110%, and has given me some of the best customer service and reliability I have ever come across. Great guy. :thumbsup: 

END RANT ABOUT MY BAD LUCK.


Back to the scape. These photo's show that you did in-fact use front to back area, and did give it depth. The original pictures just didn't do it justice, my bad. Those rocks are quite nice for having tons in your backyard. The light is awesome, perfect for the tank, COMPLETELY AWESOME RIG. The color of that bulb is also quite nice, which gets me excited because the 8K is only going to be better! Now that I look at your halide, I realize I did a stupid thing with mine, I cut those excess wires! WOOPS, I left a little bit, but not much...

When this fills in it will be completely awesome. Nice work!


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Sorry about yer luck dude! That blows... if it makes you feel any better, I had to pull the ballast apart to reattach the plate that holds the capacitors. One screw fell out, and the nut and lock washer were clanking around in the ballast housing. That could've been bad news
I'm an Apple guy too btw. My fiance is the Art Director at an Ad agency, so it's mac, mac, mac all the way!

Thanks for the compliments bro!


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Sorry to keep bumping this, but all the pieces are in place now... I stopped at the Post Office this morning to pick up my 8K bulbs! 










A world of difference is all I have to say, and after it's burned in a while, it's gonna be extra sweet:icon_bigg:icon_bigg:icon_bigg

No color corrections made, straight outta the camera with the same settings as the previous photos...
GREEN GOODNESS!!!










If anyone reading this has a 70W hqi system and needs an 8000k bulb, shoot me a PM, I bought a few extras...


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Sweet setup man. Give that moss a week or so to adjust to the water then its going to explode and look fantastic. Gotta love the look of those free rocks too! Makes me want to go explore around my house a bit.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

MrJG said:


> Sweet setup man. Give that moss a week or so to adjust to the water then its going to explode and look fantastic. Gotta love the look of those free rocks too! Makes me want to go explore around my house a bit.


Thanks man (and for the moss!) 
The moss is already covered with new shoots, can't wait to see it get bigger...


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## Matsu49 (Jan 1, 2008)

Tank looks like your off to a good start. I look forward to future updates.


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

Nice color!! 

hmph... straighten your halide lol!


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Gah!! It's straightened! The cord was pulling the fixture off to the side...


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## fshfanatic (Apr 20, 2006)

Nice job! Especially that stand. You must be very proud.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

fshfanatic said:


> Nice job! Especially that stand. You must be very proud.


Thank you!


Might as well get the updates done tonight...

Nothing crazy to report. Everything is growing. I guess that's good, right?


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## deMastro (Mar 18, 2008)

Looks good.

Waiting for it to fill .


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Thanks deMastro!

A quick side note: This thing is (almost) cycled! Ammonia has been at zero for the last 2 days, NO2 at .3ppm and dropping daily, and that's with no water change yesterday.:icon_eek:










12 days in and levels are that good? All I can say is: Green Bacter & Bacter 100 are 2 _very_ good products for a newly set up planted tank!


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

My mind is still blown by the 2 week cycle that this thing went through... I started from scratch too -- no seeding from my other tank, just Bacter 100 and the prescribed dosing of Green Bacter. Gotta love ADA

I've done some trimming and replanting of the Myriophyllum and Rotala. Clipped some of the E. Tennellus to stop it from invading the Nile Sand. That stuff is almost scary in how fast it grows! The E.T. has developed some nice pink/red colors too -- actutally the Rotala and Lim Aro have as well. The Peacock moss in the foreground is bushing up nicely, but every last bit of it that I carefully and tenaciously tied to the wood has been carefully and tenaciously REMOVED by the Amano shimp... Thanks guys
I have some willow moss on the way to replace it, the Peacock didn't really seem to grab onto the wood that well anyway. Went through a very, very minor hair algae outbreak which was remedied with CO2, Phyton Git, and a reduced photoperiod. All gone in less than a week, now just some minor spot algae, which I suspect is due to a nearby window.

I've switched back to the Aqua Medic bulb in the MH after flip floppping about the color... I guess I just like the crispness of the 10K (or 12K?) a bit better. I still have an 8K stashed away in case I change my mind

I've added fish over the course of the last week. I'm going with the classic Amano-Esque Lively Tetra community. First ones in were some Green Fire Tetras -- really pretty fish, but I've lost 4 of them due to their (presumed) night-time acrobatic endeavours, so I might move them into a (covered!) community 29 at work. I've also added a few Rummy Nose, and a few Neons. Those neons just *pop* under the halide!

I'll try to get some pics up a little later today, or tommorow.

Cheers--->


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

pic.










:thumbsup:


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## deleted_user_16 (Jan 20, 2008)

looks awesome!!!!!!!!!!!


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## fshfanatic (Apr 20, 2006)

Very nice. I gotta ask, how much do you have invested in that tank? If you dont mind telling.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

wow, it looks very nice. i like it.


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## Wingsdlc (Dec 9, 2005)

Your tank is growing in rather nicely. I really like the driftwood. I just might have to get my hands on some similar.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Holy shmokes. I LOVE IT. Just a few questions. Are you going to put moss on the driftwood? maybe java ferns? (unless you already have them on but i probably can't tell) Have you thought about putting maybe some colour in there other than the back reddish plant? Otherwise it is great. Keep putting all that good work into it.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Thanks for the compliments everyone!


For great driftwood, check out badcopnofishtank's stuff in the swap & shop -- This is the second tank I've been able to fill out of one order of driftwood bought from him. There are only 3 pieces of wood in this tank if you can believe it!!!



fshfanatic said:


> Very nice. I gotta ask, how much do you have invested in that tank? If you dont mind telling.


Eeeeshh....

I stopped counting a long time ago!!! 

Close to a grand, I guess?

Enough, anyway


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

$1000 dollars? thats nothing, i would spend 3x as much, lol (and go broke without enough to pay for the electricity to maintain it).


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## Badcopnofishtank (Jan 20, 2004)

Looks like it is filling in nicely.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Four Views.





































Click for big...










Gotta give credit for the Photoshop work to my fiancé!

I'm still trying to find the perfect balance of lighting height/duration. I think I may be honing in on it...
Small amount of hair algae on the Cyperus, and some spot algae on the glass, but other than that things are sailin' along pretty nicely.

Out of the original 5 juvenile Cherry shrimp that I transplanted from the 20L a few weeks back, 3 are berried! I'll be up to my eyeballs in RCS in no time. The Lim Aro in this tank is doing very well -- it seems to _love_ the halide, pearling more than any other plant in the tank. I've trimmed the Rotala back pretty hard, and replanted the tops in an effort to get it to bush out a bit. I'm on the fence with the Myriophyllum -- not quite sure it's doing what I want it to in this 'scape, but I'll leave it in for a while to see if it thickens up. I've added some willow moss to the wood, and so far the Amanos haven't been able to tear it up!

During the flurry of activity that was setting up this tank, I neglected to install the Eheim quick disconnects on the filter tubing:icon_eek: During water change yesterday, I cleaned the Lily pipes and installed the QDs. Also added some Purigen to the filter -- I hadn't noticed how brown the water was until my better half commented on it. I'm guessing from the Aquasoil? Anyway, within a matter of hours the water was almost crystalline. Purigen rocks!roud: roud: 

Cheers!


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Looks great man! Hope you aren't having too much trouble with E. Tenellus runners. Hehe, stuff looks really good with the pink coloring. 

Check on the AS coloring the water. It should go away after a while. Purigen is the goodness.


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## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

the woods are beautiful. i'm a bit bothered with those tenellus behind the moss foreground.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

there are some nice shots in there, good job. i like the tenellus, i think it makes it look a bit more natural, with the plants seemingly fighting for light (though we all now that moss doesnt really care about that little shade).


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

MrJG said:


> Looks great man! Hope you aren't having too much trouble with E. Tenellus runners. Hehe, stuff looks really good with the pink coloring.
> 
> Check on the AS coloring the water. It should go away after a while. Purigen is the goodness.


Thanks! The runners aren't really much of a problem, I just trim when they hit the sand. I'm diggin' the coloration on it too. It's more of a purpley color than pink... Like Black Raspberry ice cream
Thanks to the Purigen, the tank has that "doesn't even have water in it" look right now!



ikuzo said:


> the woods are beautiful. i'm a bit bothered with those tenellus behind the moss foreground.


Thank you ikuzo! Sorry the Tenellus bothers you I think that when the Crypts, Needle Java and Bolbitis catch up with everything else the Tenellus won't be quite so "in your face".



@[email protected] said:


> there are some nice shots in there, good job. i like the tenellus, i think it makes it look a bit more natural, with the plants seemingly fighting for light (though we all now that moss doesnt really care about that little shade).


Thanks man! I like to think of it as being very "natural" as well. Right now it kind of reminds me of a flooded forest floor...


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

i agree, it looks exactly like that. nj being rainy, moss loves it here (im talking about emersed form here). it always grows inbetween the blades of grass on the lawn, and sometimes when most of the grass dies of being "overwatered" (its really more like over-rained), it looks just like that.


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## chonhzilla (Apr 22, 2008)

WOW. looks awesome.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Couple pics of a tank in need of a trim.



















Emersed Polygonum sp. ‘Sao Paulo’. I might remove this, as it's a tad too big for this size tank. Then again, I might not



















Cheers!


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

tank looks nice. i like the emersed plant, i think it looks nice, so long as you keep it short.

also, it just a suggestion, but you may want to put a _tillandsia_ air plant on one of the pieces of wood sticking out of the water. it would really give that jungle feel, and all you would need to do to take care of it is dump it into the tank for 15 minutes every 3 days or so.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

@[email protected] said:


> tank looks nice. i like the emersed plant, i think it looks nice, so long as you keep it short.
> 
> also, it just a suggestion, but you may want to put a _tillandsia_ air plant on one of the pieces of wood sticking out of the water. it would really give that jungle feel, and all you would need to do to take care of it is dump it into the tank for 15 minutes every 3 days or so.


Sounds like a sweet idea. I wish I had more time, or I might try it:thumbsup:


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Back to the 8K bulb... I want to see it in it's "burned in" color -- I'm hoping it will mellow out the greens a bit. 

-Pulled the Myriophyllum. It just wasn't quite what I had in mind, and was growing leggy for some reason. 
-Added more Rotala.

pics.









Sorry about the glare, but the fish are lined up nice


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

i like the neons. they all seem to be facing downward.

do you know why your background looks so much fuller when veiwed from above? is it being reflected or what is it? you should try and get it actually that thick, it looks nice.


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## Chrisinator (Jun 5, 2008)

Coolness all over!


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

@[email protected] said:


> i like the neons. they all seem to be facing downward.
> 
> do you know why your background looks so much fuller when veiwed from above? is it being reflected or what is it? you should try and get it actually that thick, it looks nice.


You're seeing the actual canopy of Lim Aro. Nothing but the top surface of the leaves.


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## Chrisinator (Jun 5, 2008)

I really love it! I can keep commenting about it all night long!


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Chrisinator said:


> I really love it! I can keep commenting about it all night long!


roud:
Glad you like it, but it's got plenty of filling in to do yet!


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## Chrisinator (Jun 5, 2008)

I think it's perfect already!


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

roybot73 said:


> You're seeing the actual canopy of Lim Aro. Nothing but the top surface of the leaves.


nope. the vals too (they are vals right?). here i cut out 2 parts of the pictures of the same area of the tank. left is above, right is from the front. both are of the vals in the left corner.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

@[email protected] said:


> ... (they are vals right?).


Nope. Cyperus helferi.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

ugh, i suck at id-ing plants.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Man...
I found another Green Fire Tetra on the floor this morning. Out of 14 to start, I think I have 5 or 6 left -- all due to jumpers. What a shame, I really like the fish, but they're definitely not for an open top tank. I'll replace them with more Rummynose and Neons...


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## volatile (Feb 13, 2007)

roybot73 said:


> Man...
> I found another Green Fire Tetra on the floor this morning. Out of 14 to start, I think I have 5 or 6 left -- all due to jumpers. What a shame, I really like the fish, but they're definitely not for an open top tank. I'll replace them with more Rummynose and Neons...


Sorry to hear that Roybot  I used to have Black Neon Tetras and they jumped out of my ADA tank as well. I really like the look of the open tank, but worrying about jumpers, and the high rate of evaporation always make me reconsider an open tank. If/when I upgrade to a bigger tank, I'm thinking of going for an acrylic seamless tank from Glasscages.com. It has the sleekness of an ADA tank, but the top is partially covered, so that should stop any jumping (hopefully).


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## deleted_user_16 (Jan 20, 2008)

roybot73 said:


> Man...
> I found another Green Fire Tetra on the floor this morning. Out of 14 to start, I think I have 5 or 6 left -- all due to jumpers. What a shame, I really like the fish, but they're definitely not for an open top tank. I'll replace them with more Rummynose and Neons...


hey man, if you like th look of neons, but want them to sschool tightly, get some green neons. great little fish.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

I was considering green neons, but couldn't find them locally. It's weird too, because a few years ago _every_ local pet and fish store had them...

I like the way Neons and Rummys look together -- kind of classic, you know? They seem to be content in the lower strata of the tank, thus far fewer jumpers. The Green Fire seem to like hanging out around the tips of the plants at the water surface. They're very curious. When the Polygonum was in there growing emersed, they loved to hang out in the shade of the leaves near the stem -- kinda cool looking...


----------



## deleted_user_16 (Jan 20, 2008)

u know would also look nice? a little group of killifish, maybe 5-6, idk if they jump, but i know they stay at the top.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

most of the surface-dwelling fish jump, but bottom-dwelling fish have been seen swimming across the bottom- up the glass- and out. you really have to stick with middle-level fish. i never had a danio jump, but my tetras dont either (but thats not suprising, my tetras only move for food or if they are being chased).


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

I week's growth of Lim Aro...


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

i think it likes your tank.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Just a few pics after the Lim trim...
I think the 8K bulb has finally "burned in" to it's color. I like it  I hadn't really noticed much pearling, so I extended the photoperiod to 8 hours -- now she pearls. Upped the Neons to 12, Green Fire number is down to 2 (out of 14 -- all jumpers), and I lost an Oto due to jumpage if you can believe it.
Getting ready to switch to Green Brighty Step 2...














































Thanks for looking!


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

its very lush and green.
but have you thought of putting any red in it? the limno didnt really turn red even at the surface. it was just yellowish (very healthy, but not colored up). it looks nice as it is, but if you would like to try it, it may look good.


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## kotoeloncat (Apr 12, 2006)

wow....what a journey haha was reading this during work hours hahaahahaha

excellent tank, I am green with envy


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## ColeMan (Mar 9, 2008)

Tank looks exceptional...I really like the textures and lush greens. This is one of my favorite tanks...simple, lush and well-planned, yet totally natural looking.


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## MedRed (May 20, 2008)

Great looking tank!


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

@[email protected] said:


> its very lush and green.
> but have you thought of putting any red in it? the limno didnt really turn red even at the surface. it was just yellowish (very healthy, but not colored up). it looks nice as it is, but if you would like to try it, it may look good.


The underside of the Lim Aro's leaves were a beautiful purple... I kind of like the depth of green right now. The Crypts have some nice burgandy veining which offsets some of the green.



kotoeloncat said:


> wow....what a journey haha was reading this during work hours hahaahahaha
> 
> excellent tank, I am green with envy


I'm glad you like it. Don't make me tell your boss about your wasted productivity



ColeMan said:


> Tank looks exceptional...I really like the textures and lush greens. This is one of my favorite tanks...simple, lush and well-planned, yet totally natural looking.


Thanks man! The natural look is really what I've been after with this tank. Kind of loosely planned by me, with "The Mother Nature" taking over as she sees fit.



MedRed said:


> Great looking tank!


Thanks! Can you send me 5 lbs of Stumptown Coffee, and some Hammerhead Ale from McMennamins? I miss PDX

Cheers! Thanks for your comments!!!


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## deleted_user_16 (Jan 20, 2008)

maybe i missed it, but wat did you ever do to the fish jumping issue?


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

fishman9809 said:


> maybe i missed it, but wat did you ever do to the fish jumping issue?


I bought fish that don't jump:thumbsup:


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## pleco4me (Apr 10, 2007)

roybot73 said:


> I bought fish that don't jump:thumbsup:


LMAO.

Your tank is looking great roybot :eek5:


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## Tex Gal (Mar 28, 2008)

Very nice. Looks like a forest glen.


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## MedRed (May 20, 2008)

roybot73 said:


> Thanks! Can you send me 5 lbs of Stumptown Coffee, and some Hammerhead Ale from McMennamins? I miss PDX
> 
> Cheers! Thanks for your comments!!!


lol... everyone here seems to enjoy pabst... yuck!


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

MedRed said:


> lol... everyone here seems to enjoy pabst... yuck!


I noticed that... You can't walk 10 feet without running into a fantastic brewery, and everyone loves swilling $1 cans of PBR at the Lutz... Though I'm guilty of swilling a PBR or 2 (3-4?) from time to time

Looking back on this thread, I noticed I never posted a full _setup_ (tank and stand) shot. Here it is...


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## st3v3 (Apr 14, 2008)

Nice setup! I love the growth in the tank. I will be doing something similar in my new 120P. I'm planning on adding driftwood, ferns, crypts, vals, etc.... And the wood grain on your stand looks sweet. Love it.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

I'm on the fence about the Lim Aro in both of my setups. It's by far the fastest growing plant in this tank. I'd like to see what the tank would look like with the Rotala grown in more. The Lim never lets it have a chance -- it justs forms a canopy in almost no time... But maybe that's a good thing for the Crypts & Ferns in this tank.


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## mizu-chan (May 13, 2008)

This is a great looking tank!
Very lush, and it has amazing growth!

Can't wait for future updates 
Subscribed!


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Thanks mizu-chan!

Future Updates...



















I'm usually not so flip-floppy about decision making, but at last I've reached my final decision for which HQI bulb to use... The stock Aqua Medic 12K bulb. It's obviously and noticeably brighter, as well as providing much better color rendition for fish and plants. The 8K would be best suited for an Iwagumi layout that's primarily green.

I've added a few more neons and Rummynose. Fish stock complete...


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## mizu-chan (May 13, 2008)

One of your neons is looking a bit plump there :hihi:


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Well, since the return of the 12K bulb, there has been a steady build up of GDA/GSA (not quite sure which) on the glass...

Need to find out where to order some "ADA Super Green Sprinkle Dust Algae Spot for Removal of Plant Spots Remover"...
...Might be a special order item:hihi:


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Still chuggin' along...
Might be time to thin out some Tenellus soon, Cyperus too -- seems to inhibit flow a bit. Stems need trimming too I like keeping it 'wild' though...


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## CobraGuppy (Sep 23, 2007)

Wow, such amazing growth!

I really liked your bottom up picture.


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## MedRed (May 20, 2008)

if you need a home for any thinned out any cyperus... let me know


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## TANKd (Jul 28, 2008)

Nice ADA tank!!! great work in the tank, and keep up the good work!  :thumbsup:


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

TANKd said:


> Nice ADA tank!!! great work in the tank, and keep up the good work!  :thumbsup:


Thanks TANKd!

My Rummynose have been performing nocturnal acrobatics... Found 3 in 3 days on the floor:icon_eek: 

Since some space has opened up in the tank, I've a new addition...
Pics to come in a day or 2...

I'm going to roll up my sleeves and dive into this bucket soon. The Cyperus is not really the right plant for this type of 'scape and will be removed soon. Tennellus will be thinned out heavily as well...

Stay tuned:flick:


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## MedRed (May 20, 2008)

Hey roybot... what is your issue with the cyperus? i will probably run into it too.


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## Chrisinator (Jun 5, 2008)

Awesome tank!


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

MedRed said:


> Hey roybot... what is your issue with the cyperus? i will probably run into it too.


Well, as you've postulated in your thread, it does shade things out a bit too much in spots. It seems to be an all-or-nothing background plant, it blocks out all of my stems. I think if it's the _only_ background plant in a well planned 'scape it looks fantastic. About half of it's overall length lays on the water surface (in my tank anyway) and it does seem to impede surface water flow in those background sections. I pulled the planting I had in the back left corner a few weeks ago, and that section's stems (Didiplis) have already doubled in size.

You've got the added height available in your 60-H, so it might be worth a shot!



Chrisinator said:


> Awesome tank!


Thanks!


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

Hey Roy, I'm doing a very similar stand with a flush door like that. Could you post me a detail shot of your hinges and how you have them anchored? That's the only part of my build that I just don't get yet. 
Thanks in advance mate.



roybot73 said:


>


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Here you go, macclellan...










They're ADA Invisi-Hide hinges. Aqua Forest has them for $75 apiece. Screws are extra

Home Deep. "Liberty" brand 6-way adjustable. I think they were $5-$6 each. Just poke around in the cabinet hardware section. They come bagged, but some jerk (like me) invariably opens up a package to read the instructions, so just look for the ones that have the full overlay option. You'll need a forstner bit if you don't already have one -- the instructions had a tool list.


New inhabitants. Don't mind the GDA on the glass.

She.









He.


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

Thanks Roybot. ADA charges $75 for a hinge? har. They never cease to amaze me with obscene to offensive pricing. 

Looks like a 'euro hinge' - that won't work for me;. There's a 2"x1" parallel to where the closed door will be, not a perpendicular piece of plywood. I'll have to brainstorm some more. I've got a workable but less elegant option if I can't figure something better out.

Very cute guy and gal, btw. Can't wait to see them all grow'd up.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

macclellan said:


> Thanks Roybot. ADA charges $75 for a hinge? har. They never cease to amaze me with obscene to offensive pricing.




I knew I could get some kind of anti-ADA sentiment out of you with that joke...:hihi: :hihi: :hihi:


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

I'm predictable like that.  For the record, I'm not anti-ADA - their rimless tanks (once the ADA sticker is removed  ) and Aquasoil are great products and worth every penny - but I am opposed to price gouging (read: essentially everything else they sell) and the 'Amano emulators/wannabe syndrome' that ADA fosters. 'All-ADA' tanks are only a few steps removed from more complicated, higher priced, paint-by-number kits and not too much different from buying an outfit off the rack and imagining oneself a fashion designer. :hihi:


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## crrichey (May 13, 2008)

Very nice indeed!


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

macclellan said:


> I'm predictable like that.  For the record, I'm not anti-ADA - their rimless tanks (once the ADA sticker is removed  ) and Aquasoil are great products and worth every penny - but I am opposed to price gouging (read: essentially everything else they sell) and the 'Amano emulators/wannabe syndrome' that ADA fosters. 'All-ADA' tanks are only a few steps removed from more complicated, higher priced, paint-by-number kits and not too much different from buying an outfit off the rack and imagining oneself a fashion designer. :hihi:


Are you taking a shot at me?
Paint by number kits?


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

roybot73 said:


> Are you taking a shot at me?


Take it as you wish, but I wasn't taking a shot particularly at you particularly; you at least built your stand (a nice one at that) and light bar and didn't bleed money for ADA hardscape stuffs, Solar, etc. One question: How come you didn't trim the wires on your pendant?


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## MedRed (May 20, 2008)

ouch mac... i did buy the ada stand, light bar, & rocks... lol


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

macclellan said:


> One question: How come you didn't trim the wires on your pendant?


I like the Mickey Mouse ear effect.:hihi: 

Seriously though, I've just never gotten around to it.


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## waterfaller1 (Jul 5, 2006)

roybot73 said:


> I like the Mickey Mouse ear effect.:hihi:


LOL..that is funny. If you lived here you could be included in one of those places where "micky mouse is hidden around the city"..
The tank looks awesome!


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

roybot73 said:


> I like the Mickey Mouse ear effect.:hihi:
> Seriously though, I've just never gotten around to it.


Haha! Good one! It will help the lines of the setup if you trim them.



MedRed said:


> ouch mac... i did buy the ada stand, light bar, & rocks... lol


Roy started a thread about ADA in general (link). Let's keep posts about that over there and keep this thread for Roy's tank (he did goad me though, with the line about the $75 hinge and how that'd irk me! :red_mouth).


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## rountreesj (Jun 12, 2007)

So can you get the hinges anywhere else besides AFA?


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

They sell Euro hinges at Home Depot and Lowes. As Roy said, don't forget the drill bit to make the cut in the cabinet door for the hinge recess.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

rountreesj said:


> So can you get the hinges anywhere else besides AFA?


 
That was a joke completely intended to ruffle macclellan's feathers!
There is no such thing (that I know of) as "ADA Invisi-Hide" hinges.

They were purchased at Home Depot for $5-$6 apiece as stated previously.



macclellan said:


> Haha! Good one! It will help the lines of the setup if you trim them.
> 
> Roy started a thread about ADA in general (link). Let's keep posts about that over there and keep this thread for Roy's tank (he did goad me though, with the line about the $75 hinge and how that'd irk me! :red_mouth).


Thanks for the tip. I've thought about it, and will probably get around to trimming them someday...:icon_wink 

I'll chime in on the other thread when I get home later...:thumbsup:


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## rountreesj (Jun 12, 2007)

I figured so much about the hinges...you bout put a kink in my new stand design ideas...


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

It's Jungle Time again. Gotta roll up the sleeves and get in there sometime soon -- MedRed, I haven't forgotten your Tennellus, I just have to find some time to dig it out. There's a _lot_ to thin out. I've decided all of the Cyperus is coming out as well. It just competes way too much with all the stems -- I think I've blabbed about this already though.

The Rams seem to pretty happy in their new surroundings as they've dug themselves a nice little nest in the sand (front right corner right behind the ADA decal). The female seems to hang out in there quite a bit, and they may have spawned already -- very hard to tell the sand grains from eggs. Anyhow, they're both colored up quite intensely, and her ovipositor is extended...


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

gorgeous ADA. i love the jungle look


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

If her ovipositor is still extended then either she's about to start spawning or hasn't finished yet... has the male taken to "wiggling" through the nesting site yet? If you see him doing that, that's a sure sign that he's fertilizing eggs.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

lauraleellbp said:


> If her ovipositor is still extended then either she's about to start spawning or hasn't finished yet... has the male taken to "wiggling" through the nesting site yet? If you see him doing that, that's a sure sign that he's fertilizing eggs.


They've moved the nest site to an area with a flat rock surface completely surrounded by plants. It took me about 10 minutes of observation to find them. The rock has eggs all over it, and they're both sticking close by...roud: If I hang out and watch too long, they take turns "charging" the glass. Their personalities are amazing!


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

MAJOR RESCAPE IN EFFECT! BEER BREAK UPDATE!

What started out as a typical Sunday morning trim has gone horrlbly awry! I pulled the proverbial 'Sweater String'...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqgN0T6f1kg

pics to come when I see fit

Cheers


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## deleted_user_16 (Jan 20, 2008)

saweeeeeeeeeet.  are we going to be seeing a before and after pic?


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Nope. Just an after I just want to get this thing planted quick before I waste any more of what may possibly be the most beautiful October Sunday afternoon I can ever remember. Weird to think that 2 years ago at this time Buffalo NY was under 2+ FEET of snow, and more than half of the city's trees were destroyed...


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## deleted_user_16 (Jan 20, 2008)

get out there and enjoy it, then come back and finish up in evening


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## fishboy87 (Feb 19, 2008)

I want pics!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

I need to get some more of this before I post some real pics...


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## waterfaller1 (Jul 5, 2006)

Cool pic. Is that a tonina?


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Thanks -- It's a little something called "HC". It's supposed to be _all_ the rage these days:hihi:


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Roy: I was wondering about this tank when I saw your post in the swap n shop. Looks like you got a little freaky with it! 
I did something similar on saturday... isn't that the way it always happens. Normal trim turns into a tank teardown. lol. I love having to explain that one to the wife on saturday afternoon... "no no really I didn't plan on this it just happened!"

Looking forward to the results.


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

ok can we get a real pic plz?


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

I'm going to stop by the LFS in search of more HC after work. Either way, I'll get a full pic up later...


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

its a very artistic photo, but it doesnt show us much. try using your talents with a little less zoom.


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

roybot73 said:


> I'm going to stop by the LFS in search of more HC after work. Either way, I'll get a full pic up later...


hehe, thanks, I came off a bit brunt on my last post


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

I'll be the very first to admit that this layout is indeed wholly unoriginal, but it's what came together as I rescaped. I went in with a loose plan, and sometimes things just find their own way of working together. Call it 'paint-by-number' if you will, but I enjoy looking at it

The first thing you'll notice is the lack of a sand foreground. *Never Again*. Lesson learned. It looks good for a day, and then the shrimp just destroy it. I asked Jeff S. about adding that small amount of Aquisoil™ into an existing setup. He said he'd recently done the same thing and to just go for it. Worked out just fine. I actually had enough HC buried in the jungle to get this much planted. LFS should be getting some in in Thursday, so I'll supplement the planting then.

"Look Ma, No Stems!"

That's not entirely true though. I have some Hygro 'kompacta' and Micranthemum umbrosum in there, but _no_ background stem plants. I'd like to have some "overhead" space left in the composition, and I had some flow issues with the last layout. Lots of Crypts in there should fill the space in a cool way.




























Thanks for looking!


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

I like it, I like it a lot. Dare I say, I like it a lot better than the previous scape. Job well done :thumbsup:


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## deleted_user_16 (Jan 20, 2008)

i have to agree, looks amazing, but some bigger rhizome/rosette plants would do better, the java fern doesnt do it enough in the middle, and the back feels empty. again you have outscaped all of us 

nice tank roybot73!!!


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

the tank looks great. i love how the tank is very symmetrical, but still looks good.

the only suggestion i have is get some kind of background, like giant hairgrass, or vals.


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## eyebeatbadgers (Aug 6, 2007)

The Aquisoil looks nice. Should grow into a beauty


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Yes, it is a lot better than the original, no matter how "unoriginal" it is


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## NATURE AQUARIUM (Dec 16, 2007)

roybot73 said:


> It's Jungle Time again. Gotta roll up the sleeves and get in there sometime soon -- MedRed, I haven't forgotten your Tennellus, I just have to find some time to dig it out. There's a _lot_ to thin out. I've decided all of the Cyperus is coming out as well. It just competes way too much with all the stems -- I think I've blabbed about this already though.
> 
> The Rams seem to pretty happy in their new surroundings as they've dug themselves a nice little nest in the sand (front right corner right behind the ADA decal). The female seems to hang out in there quite a bit, and they may have spawned already -- very hard to tell the sand grains from eggs. Anyhow, they're both colored up quite intensely, and her ovipositor is extended...


This is my favorite picture, Welcome To The Jungle. I can't wait to see the new plant set-up, when your plants start to grow more


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Thanks a lot guys! It'll be fun to see how this one grows in!


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

wow, I just realized it looks kinda like my tank! 

took this shot like 2 minutes ago... still only half planted. Did this replant about 4 days ago :thumbsup:


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

so you post pics of your tank on roybots journal before you post them in your own journal? lol


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

@[email protected] said:


> so you post pics of your tank on roybots journal before you post them in your own journal? lol


well it reminded me of it!! And anyway, it's not ready for an update, I'M not ready for an update lol


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

CmLaracy said:


> well it reminded me of it!! And anyway, it's not ready for an update, I'M not ready for an update lol


of course. a new scape isnt nearly enough for an update. 
lol
you and roybot are so similar. everybody wants you to update your threads, and then you do so every few monthes. its pretty different from my threads which are a monolouge of pictures posted purely for my own benefit.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

CmLaracy said:


> wow, I just realized it looks kinda like my tank!
> 
> took this shot like 2 minutes ago... still only half planted. Did this replant about 4 days ago :thumbsup:


Hmmm... Looking good, though I would have preferred to see it in _ your _thread 4 days ago!:hihi::hihi::icon_lol::hihi::hihi::icon_wink

Kinda similar, huh? Just so you know, that _wasn't _ my intention.:thumbsup:

Cheers!


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

roybot73 said:


> Hmmm... Looking good, though I would have preferred to see it in _ your _thread 4 days ago!:hihi::hihi::icon_lol::hihi::hihi::icon_wink
> 
> Kinda similar, huh? Just so you know, that _wasn't _ my intention.:thumbsup:
> 
> Cheers!


hehehe, well, you know how it is, you gotta _feel_ an update :hihi:

Oh, and I know it wasn't your intention obviously... they only look _slightly_ similar, and I really LOVE what you did w/ the crypts and java fern. Lookin' real good! :thumbsup:


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## iantan05 (Aug 24, 2008)

nice set up....
im rescaping my 30 gallon soon
too bad it isn't ada


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Ferns and Crypts are growing well and I've added a few Crypt retrospiralis. I'm trimming and replanting the Micranthemum umbrosum in an effort to produce a large stand of it. The Hygro 'kompacta' really seems to like the hqi lighting -- it's turning red at the leaf tips. The Rams really have it in for the HC, pulling it out whenever they get the chance. I played the game for a while, replanting it daily. That proved to be a futile effort. Some bits of it have really taken hold, so I'll be patient and let it spread by itself. New growth is growing horizontal, so I think it'll be just fine on it's own. Time will tell.

























First post from my MacBook Pro!!!


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## deleted_user_16 (Jan 20, 2008)

update please


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Still pluggin' along and filling in. The Rams have all but destroyed the HC. It's still holding on in some spots, but has been somewhat replaced with an attempt at a Crypt parva foreground. Also added some Downoi and a few sprigs of Lilaeopsis Brasilensis here and there.


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## deleted_user_16 (Jan 20, 2008)

looking quiite nice, you gonna put anything tall in the back?


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Thanks fishman! I've been planting the Micranthemum umbrosum trimmings in and behind the center mass of wood...


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## deleted_user_16 (Jan 20, 2008)

Micranthemum umbrosum would look very nice, are you planning a jungle look like the previous version or you going to make kindd of a bush. i cant get over how good your hardscapes always look


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## fastfreddie (Sep 10, 2008)

Sweet tank and congrats on the Macbook Pro!


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

fastfreddie said:


> Sweet tank and congrats on the Macbook Pro!


 Thanks! She's a screamer...
15.4", 2.5 Ghz dual core, 250 GB HD, 4 GB RAM:thumbsup:


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## fastfreddie (Sep 10, 2008)

roybot73 said:


> Thanks! She's a screamer...
> 15.4", 2.5 Ghz dual core, 250 GB HD, 4 GB RAM:thumbsup:


Woohoo! You aren't lyin! Love my macbook, but I wish I could have stepped into the big league with a setup like that one! You will enjoy!


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Just a quickie up-shot. Everything is growing well, especially the Downoi! It's sending out new shoots on all 4 plants. I have a small GDA issue and a few small spots of fuzz. Meh -- What can you do Added a few more Amanos and 6 more Rummies.










Thanks!

Why not make it a double


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## deleted_user_16 (Jan 20, 2008)

awesome. not much more can be said.


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## fishboy87 (Feb 19, 2008)

fishman9809 said:


> awesome. not much more can be said.


x2:thumbsup:


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Nice! You have that knack for keeping us wanting more.  

Is that giant hygro in the back left? Looks so nice and clean.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Thanks guys! It's far from being filled in and where I see it, but growth is slow and steady -- just how I like it It's pretty low maintenance overall. I can't wait for the Crypt 'parva' foreground to fill in a bit more. I've added some of the new pfertz root tabs under all the background Crypts and Blyxa, and put some small chunks under the foreground substrate. 

The plant in the back left is Hygro 'kompacta'. I really like it -- it fills space nicely and the lime green color is a nice offset to the darker green ferns.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

can we get a head-on shot?
plz

tank looks great though.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)




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## MedRed (May 20, 2008)

looking really good. what are you going to grow for a foreground?


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

MedRed said:


> looking really good. what are you going to grow for a foreground?


Thanks--

Foreground will be Crypt 'parva' as soon as it all grows in. The original plan was HC, but the Rams weren't having it. They picked out almost every last bit of it.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Looks really fantastic! :thumbsup:

Have you worked with C. parva before? If so, how long did it take to fill in? I've just recently added some to my 29gal so I'm curious about your experience with it.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

wow, it looks really nice. 
the head-on shot lets me see how tall the plants are, and everything fits into the scape so well.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Laura -- Thanks!! This is my first time with C. parva as well, maybe we can compare notes

Thanks marko, glad you guys like itroud:


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## Captain Hooked (Oct 13, 2008)

I've read this thread a few times now, and the reason I never said anything is because it has already been said so many times: "it's amazing"

...just thought I would make my comment official: THIS TANK IS INCREDIBLE!!! :eek5:

I wouldn't change a single thing. 

Mike.


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## Down_Shift (Sep 20, 2008)

beautiful tank man. Looks like the shrimp will have alot of places to hide~!


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Thanks!!



Down_Shift said:


> beautiful tank man. Looks like the shrimp will have alot of places to hide~!


I hardly ever see 'em!


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## AdamC (Nov 16, 2008)

wow ur tank was amazing i love that wild look it had.

why have u had no green water or green slime.seems like u have had no problems what so ever?

iam making my stand this weekend u got the blue print for urs ?


WOWER TANK


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Sorry, no blueprints...

Overall it's been very smooth sailing!
I've got some very minor algae issues (GDA, very, _very_ small tufts of BBA, and Fuzz), but I'm dealing with them -- no biggie. I raised the light a bit and am dosing 10ml Excel daily. Seems to be working pretty well, nothing is getting any bigger, and I remove whatever bits I can see whenever I can.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

I installed a 2217 impeller in my 2215 as per les's thread. Seems to have made a noticeable increase in flow:thumbsup: I'm going to clean the filter and replace half the Efisubstrat and the blue pad this weekend. Hopefully that'll get me some _more _flow Also added a Rhinox 1000 diffuser from GLA. Fast shipping BTW!!!

Things keep growing -- pretty quickly I might add. Fuzz and spot algae seems like it's on the run. Excel rules! 
It's funny -- not that it matters to me in the _least_, I just noticed this is now a 3 star scape? Must've ticked someone off:hihi::hihi::hihi:


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

I came home to a tank full of dead fish and shrimp today. All but 1 of the female Rams, and 1 Oto. 

I've been battling some wicked fuzz algae as of late, and in an effort to curb it's growth decided to try EI dosing. I skipped my dosing of pfertz the day before yesterday, thinking that plants would use up a good portion of what was left in the tank. I used these ferts http://www.greenleafaquariums.com/aquarium-fertilizers-supplements/micro-macro-fertilizers.html with this dosing schedule http://www.aquascapingworld.com/mag...ne/Estimative-Index-Fertilization-Method.html for the 10-20 gallon tank. I also dosed my normal 15ml daily dose of Excel.

The fish are bloated and stiff with mouths wide open, and they are falling apart. As I picked each one out, little bits of them were falling off -- they look cooked, and the tank (and my hands) reeks of dead fish...

I've just done a 50% WC, and am going to do another right now...

15 neons, 12 Rummynose, 4 Green Fire Tetras, 2 Otos, I _beautiful_ male ram, and his lovely mate. All gone.
WTF?!?

Can anyone help me out here?!?


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## mpodolan (Mar 27, 2007)

That sucks. Sorry for your loss

Could it have been a co2 OD?


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

wow man, really sorry. I'd be so ticked! 

Another reason why I barely dose _anything_

I can't tell you what happened though, this ain't my forté


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Could've been the CO2, now that it's been mentioned... I had some problems with the crappy needle valve on _this_ JBJ regulator -- the one on my 20L has been rock solid for as long as I've had it. A few weeks back I came home to find the fish gasping at the surface, and the bubble counter streaming like crazy... Is there any way EI dosing could've killed 'em all? With my limited knowledge, it doesn't really make sense. The CO2 issue _does_ make sense. The inconsistent CO2 levels are probably to blame for the fuzz algae as well, now that I think of it... But what's weird is that the surviving fish weren't really breathing any heavier than they usually are, and the drop checker FWIW is the same shade of light green _almost_ yellow that it usually is. I wonder if there was a blast in the middle of the day?

At any rate, can someone point me in the direction of a _good_ needle valve?

On a lighter note, both female Rams have survived, as well as 2 more Otos I didn't know I had...


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## mpodolan (Mar 27, 2007)

EI dosing is perfectly safe. It has been shown over and over that this is the case.

I like the Fabco needle valves. The Ideal valves are supposed to be the best, but just way too expensive, IMHO.
http://www.bestaquariumregulator.com/CO2.html#needle
I'm sure Orlando also sells these


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

mpodolan said:


> EI dosing is perfectly safe. It has been shown over and over that this is the case.
> 
> I like the Fabco needle valves. The Ideal valves are supposed to be the best, but just way too expensive, IMHO.
> http://www.bestaquariumregulator.com/CO2.html#needle
> I'm sure Orlando also sells these


I guess I just assumed it was the dosing, because it was the only new thing in the routine...:icon_redf

I will continue EI dosing in this tank:thumbsup:


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Robb sorry to hear this man. I can say that I've been following pretty close to the same levels of EI dosing per the 40 gallon schedule on my breeder with no ill effects. If the needle valve had opened up on you previously then it probably unfortunately is the cause. Did you by chance check the heater/water temp? 

Again sorry to hear about your losses. When you get ready for them again Ken Davis had beautiful tank bred Blue Ram pairs available at our last auction (I got 2 pair). I'm sure he can fix you up with males only if needed. Hit me up and I'll send you his contact info.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Thanks man --
Heater and tank temp are just fine. I'm pretty sure it was the gas. Thanks for the lead on the rams. My LFS usually has some nice ones in store -- I'm gonna keep my eye out there. They also just got a _beautiful_ lot of tank bred Cardinals. Also some Sawbwa resplendens, but I've heard they only do well in neutral to alkaline condition? Anyway, I've got to get this CO2 solved before I even think about new fish...


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## imeridian (Jan 19, 2007)

Oh man, that's terrible. I can certainly sympathize, I recently lost the majority of my fish to a CO2 incident.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

imeridian said:


> Oh man, that's terrible. I can certainly sympathize, I recently lost the majority of my fish to a CO2 incident.


Quite the bummer, isn't it?

I'd like to thank Orlando for going out of his way to help me out with all of this -- First class guy with a first class operation :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Well, after seeing it with my own two eyes just minutes ago, I'm back to blaming the die-off on dry ferts, or at least the batch I have. Within SECONDS of my dosing the tank this morning, every one of the replacement fish were frantically gasping at the surface, flopping out of the water, and being blown about the tank. 2 of them died within a minute. I did 2 back to back 50% WCs and everything is back to normal. 

i dosed 1/8 tsp KNO3
1/32 tsp KH2PO4
1/32 tsp K2SO4
1/32 tsp CSM+B
15 ml Excel

What the hell is going on?!?!?


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## EdTheEdge (Jan 25, 2007)

roybot73 said:


> Well, after seeing it with my own two eyes just minutes ago, I'm back to blaming the die-off on dry ferts, or at least the batch I have. Within SECONDS of my dosing the tank this morning, every one of the replacement fish were frantically gasping at the surface, flopping out of the water, and being blown about the tank. 2 of them died within a minute. I did 2 back to back 50% WCs and everything is back to normal.
> 
> i dosed 1/8 tsp KNO3
> 1/32 tsp KH2PO4
> ...


Where did you get your dry ferts?


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## imeridian (Jan 19, 2007)

I'm curious also, it does seem like they may be contaminated with something.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

I ordered them from Greenleaf... That thought crossed my mind as well...


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

Hmmmm? Well I can assure you that our dry salts are clean as can be. I use them, as well as hundreds of other folks in the neighborhood with no problems.

Robb, what do you use to measure your salts, and what regimen do you follow for dosing?

-O


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

I use the 'Dash, Pinch, Smidgen' 1/8, 1/16, 1/32 tsp, and I follow this regimen from the link on your site: http://www.aquascapingworld.com/mag...ne/Estimative-Index-Fertilization-Method.html


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## Badcopnofishtank (Jan 20, 2004)

What containers do you house your ferts in? I have heard of fancy glass or metal containers posing problems when left with ferts in them for awhile. Are your dosing spoons clean? Maybe a chemical is being picked up somewhere? 

A good dose of Excel and high C02 levels may cause 02 starvation in the column under certain circumstances. I dose my glutaraldehyde at night after the light cycle, but am very careful with it.


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

Hmmm, just to be sure here is what I just got done doing.

On the office 40B I dosed 4 times the EI on all the elements dry(I normally dose premix)
all fish fine(GBR, Bolivian, Tetra, Otto, shrimp) they consumed what they could as it fell into the water and all are fine.
Not sure what is happening on your end. Is your bottle of excel new or old?


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Spoons are brand new, ferts are stored in those Rubbermaid resealable containers. I wondered too about the Excel interaction. I use the same amount of Excel in my 20L which is dosed with the pfertz line -- never had any issues in that tank. The xcel itself is a brand new 2 liter ordered a few weeks ago from Big Al's. I'm going to start dosing my Excel at night from now on just to be sure.

When I was dosing pfertz in this 60-P, I never had any fish issues. This is very perplexing...


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

Yes very strange as it only seems to be happening in this one case.

I will go do another test, this time adding excel. I will dose the same tank again with 4 times the recommended EI. So..it will be 8x EI in one day with the addition of Excel.
Be back........................

O


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

WOW Looks like you will need osme water changes Orlando or atleast a week of not dosing.


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

Ok! 8x EI and the fish still try to eat the salts. I will let this sit for an hour. 

My nitrates are through the roof as well as everything else Excel did not seem to be an issue at this point. I dosed the CSM+B lastly to keep things from precipitating with all the phosphates in there. All is well at GLA..

O

Yup Craig, it will now be due a water change soon


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

I just don't get it...


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Anyone else have any ideas? I'm ripping my hair out here trying to figure it out...


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Have you done any water testing at all when the problem showed up? 
Are nitrates completely jacked? Got any ammonia or even nitrites showing up? I know the tank should be cycled but just food for thought. 

I know EI, as a method, is used when you do not want to test all the time but when I started I got readings to get a feel for daily uptake and then a pre-50% WC set of readings for the final day to see what kind of build-up I was getting so I could dial things in a bit more. No use in using a ton more ferts than really needed as its a tad wasteful. No doubt that build-up doesn't seem like the issue here as its happening very quickly per one dosing. 
The only thing that stands out to me is the excel possibly combined with high CO2 and low O2 levels. If the fish immediately started gasping for air I would look into that as being the problem.


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

I've had major kills due to Excel dosing in the past with EI/PMDD + CO2 tanks. My fish exhibited the same behavior as yours. The first thing I notice is your dose of Excel, 15mL is quite a bit for a 20g. That's the same dose my 75g gets. I dose 5mL every couple days in my 20g and everything seems to be fine. You've got a 60P, right? Cut back to 5mL or stop dosing altogether and see what happens. The directions on the bottle recommend 1-2mL as a daily maintenance for a tank that size. 

Regards,
Phil


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Thanks guys -- The 15ml Excel dose is a bit excessive, but seemed to be working just fine with the pfertz dosing, which I gather is closer to PPS, rather than EI style dosing. I'm going to cut it out for a week, then ease back in at a lower dosage.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

As far as I can tell, it _was_ the Excel that was causing all the trouble. I've dosed the ferts alone twice this week since the earlier incident with no problems whatsoever. I do find it odd though, that I was able to dose that much Excel (15 ml daily in a ~70 liter tank) while using the pfertz line. Never had an issue. I haven't used Excel since Tuesday and will try to dose the recommended amount today -- with water change buckets at the ready, of course!

Thanks to everyone who chimed in and helped me figure it out -- especially Orlando, who used his own tank as an experiment to illustrate the safety of EI dosing. I kind of feel dumb for thinking it was the salts that caused the die-off, but when it first happened, I jumped to conclusions without really thinking things through -- always a bad move.

I'll try to get pictures up later -- the new fish are doing great and looking even better!


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

good luck with the tank roy, cant wait to see it back up and running smoothly again


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

Sorry to hear about your fish dying.

But holy crap man, 15mL of excel in a 60-P, which is what, 18g before wood, substrate, etc. is added? That's already double the recommended initial dose, and way too much if cumulative, i.e. between water changes. Were you dosing 15mL more than once between water changes?


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

well, at least now you know.

looking forward to pics of the new fish, and the plants.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

macclellan said:


> Sorry to hear about your fish dying.
> 
> But holy crap man, 15mL of excel in a 60-P, which is what, 18g before wood, substrate, etc. is added? That's already double the recommended initial dose, and way too much if cumulative, i.e. between water changes. Were you dosing 15mL more than once between water changes?


I was dosing 15mL _daily_ in both of my tanks for almost 3 weeks with absolutely no issues! Not quite sure what I was thinking -- I had a bad case of fuzz algae starting up and was trying to knock it out. Now that I have the wonderfully enlightening 20/20 hindsight, I realize that the big kill occurred when I switched over to a new 2 liter container of Excel after my 500mL bottle ran out. The 2 liter was purchased from Big Al's, whereas the 500mL was purchased from my LFS. I'm wondering if the 500mL was older and was not as "potent"? Who knows.

Either way, now I know where I screwed up, and I did screw up pretty good...


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

Glad to see you are getting it all figured out.

Craig


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## jeffboyarrdee (Aug 25, 2004)

hey roybot, 

I have read through your thread, and i saw that you bent the 1/2 conduit light arm yourself. Is there any tips, or any info on what kind of tool you use to make the 2 bends,


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

jeffboyarrdee said:


> hey roybot,
> 
> I have read through your thread, and i saw that you bent the 1/2 conduit light arm yourself. Is there any tips, or any info on what kind of tool you use to make the 2 bends,


Here you go: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/59418-ada-style-light-bar-hqi-cheap.html

There are ~20 tank-bred Cardinals in here now, as well as a new male Ram. He's wasted no time in enticing the dominant female into digging a pit with him (front left corner).



















Thanks!:thumbsup:


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## SdJaCK&SaLLy (Dec 20, 2008)

Very nice filtration!!


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

it looks amazing. is that blyxa in the back?


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Thanks!

Yes Chris, that is Blyxa. It's gonna get trimmed back pretty hard tomorrow...


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

have fun with that roud: where did you get your drift wood? i like the texture on it.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

chris127 said:


> have fun with that roud: where did you get your drift wood? i like the texture on it.


Yeah, Blyxa is always kind of a pain to trim, but it's _so_ dense that it's cutting down overall flow in the tank and the fuzz algae is spreading Not sue if I mentioned it here, but I did end up installing a 2217 impeller into my 2215. It does make a difference, but the filter is due for a cleaning as well, so I'll try to get to that later. I've also noticed a difference between the flow characteristics of my 2 (I scored BIG on ebay a while back and won a brand new ADA P-2 Lily Pipe for ~$30!roud ADA P-2 Lily Pipes. With the first one I bought, the "Lily" portion is kind of vertical -- you can see what I mean in the last pic I posted. The _other_ Lily, which is an older one (no English instructions, slightly different packaging...) is kind of cut back, leaving a sharper angle on the outflow (you can kind of see it here http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/t...um/64350-roybot73-ada-60-p-13.html#post720849) The suction cup mounting post is also slightly angled, so that the flow cuts diagonally across the tank. this seems to mix things up a bit better in the tank. I'll be switching back to that more angled pipe today.

The wood came from Jake/Badcopnofishtank/The driftwood dude. I've still got a huge amount of it left after scaping this tank, my 20L and one of the Finnex 4's. Good stuff:thumbsup:


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

cleaning the filter helps the flow, cleaning the pipes, now THAT helps. 
unfortunately its really messy and its a pain. but if you need flow, id do that. and maybe you could hide a small powerhead somewhere?


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Emergent Blyxa japoncia flower...



















...and fuzz/hair algae. That stuff might make me trim out most of the tank this coming weekend -- it's everywhere.


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## niptek (Nov 9, 2008)

hey whats the distance (in inches) between the light fixture and the tank?


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

any updates?


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## ddtran46 (Jul 8, 2008)

wow. i dont think ive seen this tank before. This is now one of my favorite tanks on this site.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

chris127 said:


> any updates?


Maybe later tonight This tank's gone through some tough times over the last couple weeks, but is doing pretty good now.:thumbsup:



ddtran46 said:


> wow. i dont think ive seen this tank before. This is now one of my favorite tanks on this site.


Glad you like it, ddtran46!


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

I've been thinning this beast out over the course of the last few weeks. It had become quite overgrown, especially the needle leaf Java fern. I cleared out an area on the left side and planted it with eleocharis 'belem'. I took out all of the Blyxa, and probably won't be using that plant again for a very long time -- it just gets out of control way too quickly, and then it creates an enormous mess when you want to take it out. I've added some much needed color in the form of Mermaid Weed, Ludwigia glandulosa and Alternanthera reineckii. I was worried that the reds would be washed out by the recently added Ushio 10,000K bulb, but they seem to pop quite well! That's a great bulb BTW -- ~$40 and every bit as bright as an AquaMedic! The photos really don't do it justice, those reds are _bright_ in "real life".

Fauna now include a dozen Ember Tetras and a dozen Black Neons. All but one of the 24 Cardinals I added a while back have died off. One a day for 24 days. Also in the tank is a single refugee albino skirt tetra from my wife's boss's kid's tank. That thing is a freaking pig! Voracious and seemingly insatiable at feeding time.

Anyway, here are the pics...







































Thanks for looking:thumbsup:


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

It looks awesome roybot!


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Thanks cl!


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

Wow it looks great!! But I think the Downoi in the back deserves to be in the front


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

ZooTycoonMaster said:


> Wow it looks great!! But I think the Downoi in the back deserves to be in the front



Thanks --- nah, just wait 'till that belem fills in:hihi:


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

Lookin' good, atleast someone can grow 'Belem'

Craig


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

you have a good looking tank there. i like it!


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Thanks guys! The 'belem' doesn't seem to be any harder to grow than regular ol' hairgrass. I didn't realize people were having problems growing it...


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

roybot73 said:


> Thanks guys! The 'belem' doesn't seem to be any harder to grow than regular ol' hairgrass. I didn't realize people were having problems growing it...


 
I've melted it complete twice, from 2 different sources that had really clean plants.

Craig


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Its looking great roybot. :thumbsup: The reds definitely add a needed splash of color into the mix. Your pics make me think I should go ahead and mount the 150W MH I got over my 40, I think when I tested it all the shadows stood out too much and looked so different than the PC fixture that it turned me off. Do you find that you have any difficulty with plant growth in those shaded areas? 

Craigthor: Did you add your belem to a tank that was just set up with aquasoil? It seems like one that wouldn't handle the initial burst of ammonia that well. I melted a butt load of downoi doing that one time... never again. The eleocharis that I got at roughly the same time as you is well on its way to a blanket.


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

Yeah, it was added once right at start up and then again after about 2.5 weeks of initial setup. Melt crazy fast either time. Oh well live and learn. Funny thing was the UG loved the initial planting.

Craig


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

MrJG said:


> Its looking great roybot. :thumbsup: The reds definitely add a needed splash of color into the mix. Your pics make me think I should go ahead and mount the 150W MH I got over my 40, I think when I tested it all the shadows stood out too much and looked so different than the PC fixture that it turned me off. Do you find that you have any difficulty with plant growth in those shaded areas?


Thanks man! The shaded areas do seem to grow a bit slower, but the 'scape has kind of evolved according to this. The Anubias are absolutely loving all the shade from the Needle leaf Java fern -- minimal gsa growth on them as well!

I know now is not the time to offer advise on lighting, but IMO (I could be wrong...) I think 2 x 70W halides would be more effective than a single 150W on a 36" tank.:icon_eek: The spread would be more even, resulting in less shadowing issues...
...that being said -- Fire that beast up dude!!!


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## fishboy87 (Feb 19, 2008)

It'll look great when the foreground fills in! My only suggestion is that I think you should try some moss like taiwan on the visible pieces of wood. Other than that, GREAT JOB!


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

looks great


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

CmLaracy said:


> looks great


Hey hey! He lives:hihi: 

Thanks a lot bro!


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## lizziotti (Mar 8, 2008)

Hi Roybot, Just bumped into your post. I'm from Buffalo too! Love your tank! How come I don't have such nice rocks in my yard jealous here! I'm thinking of getting a rimless as well. I bet the shipping to Buffalo is high though! Anyway one of my main concerns are the jumpers. Wondering ..Do you think some of your earlier jumping issues were from dosing all that excel? I tried Cardinals mine all died too! I wonder if it's a local thing! I know they're sensitive but geez! 


And one more thing if you ever want to sell any Downoi PM me. I'd be glad to pick it up! 

Anyway great tank!roud:


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

roybot73 said:


> Hey hey! He lives:hihi:
> 
> Thanks a lot bro!


LOL, yeah I'm alive and kicking, just retired


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## ICPjuggla (Mar 17, 2009)

Nice tank from a fellow neighbor, from the B-lo...


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Rip.


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## ganjero (Aug 4, 2005)

rip?


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## legomaniac89 (Mar 16, 2008)

Rest in Peace. I think he means he tore the tank down. Too bad...


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

This tank too? Somehow I knew that this one would say this as well. 
Are you getting out?


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

I'm not completely out of the game, but life is just too damn busy these days to be able to properly maintain 2 planted tanks. Summer fun took it's toll on my 2 tanks, and they're both horribly disgusting cesspools of every kind of algae imaginable.
This tank got a light change a while back. I went with the AquaMedic T5 48W Sunbeam fixture. I like it. I'll probably set this one up again once the winter sets in. Low maintenance layout for sure - crypts, anubias, bolbitis... No carpet plants, very few (if any) stems. Something along the lines of Unirdna's amazing tank.
If anyone is interested in a AquaMedic 70W metal halide with 2 bulbs shoot me a pm.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Been a busy couple of days. 

Don't you just love a clean slate? Oh, the possibilities


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Neat! Can't wait to see this renewed. Your last layout was fantastic at its heyday. 










What kind of lighting is that?


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

Are those new lilly pipes or the ones from the old tank?


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Glad you liked the last layout! Original light was an Aqua Medic 70W HQI. The new light is a 2x24W T5HO Aqua Medic Sunbeam with Midday 6000K Giesemann PowerChrome bulbs.

@ZTM: Same ol' Lilys...


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

Hmm, I didn't know that Aqua Medic manufactured anything like that. I should go look into that.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Awesome fixture. Would be great for a Riparium!


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

That's really sharp. It looks like it's a new product. Aqua Botanic carries it:

http://www.aquabotanicstore.com/Aqua_Medic_Sunbeam_T5_Systems_36_p/76780.htm

Can you control the lamps independently?


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

No, they're both on, or they're both off, but the reflectors are independently adjustable, which is kinda cool. The vendor I ordered mine from a few months back seems to have raised the price by ~$30 since I ordered mine...


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Sweet fixture! It's nice to see a clean slate! You will not disappoint 
I have a few questions about the light fixture. I might consider that for my new tank, but I'm worried about spread (front to back) The adjustable reflectors look really cool, but also, how wide is the fixture? What is the distance between the bulbs? Do you think I would have good coverage on a 18" tank (front to back)
Sorry for all of the questions


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## hydrophyte (Mar 1, 2009)

I wonder if there could be any hope of retrofitting it for independent control of the lamps(?).


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Well, my tank is about 14" front to back, and the spread seems just about perfect. I would guess that the bulbs are ~6" apart. This fixture is 24" wide. Here's a reflection shot off the bottom of the tank if that helps you at all.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Thanks for the help. I appreciate it


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Mmm a clean slate. If you are considering using any anubias sp. Check out Phil Edwards swap n shop post for ridiculous amounts of healthy plants. 

'disengage the simulator' = one of my favorite cky songs.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

My clean slate has been tarnished by an unforeseen horror. Every aquarist's worst nightmare. Luckily enough, the damn thing was empty, and due to a late delivery and my last minute decision to install new lighting hangers - I caught the problem before it caught me. I'm guessing that I'm pretty much SOL as far as the warranty, but I'm still going to make a phone call. 18 months is just too damn short of a life for what's supposed to be a "Top Of The Line" tank. 

I. Am. *FURIOUS*.

These pics are of the 2 back corners of the tank - you know, the ones you can't see when a tank is full and up against a wall.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Wow - Jeff Senske has gotta be one of the most stand-up guys I've ever dealt with.
Fully covered by warranty.

*relief*


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Wow! Congrats on the warranty. It looks exactly like what happened to fishmans 30-C. You get a brand new tank. The new ones have thicker and clearer glass so you're kinda getting an upgrade


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

Wait...what's wrong with it?


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

ZooTycoonMaster said:


> Wait...what's wrong with it?


the silicone separated from the glass


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

CL said:


> the silicone separated from the glass


Ohhh. That's bad

But good thing there was a warranty!


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

New tank should hopefully be here sometime next week. 
I'll say it again - Jeff Senske is the *MAN*.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Received tracking info last night, and the new box should be on the stand next Wednesday. That gives me plenty of time to paint the room this tank is in, scout out some more rocks, move the tank location and attach the new light hangers.

I can't wait to get this tub up and running again!


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

New tank arrived safe and sound this afternoon 
So did a nice big box from Sweet Aquatics full of Crypt species. Waiting for one more delivery from Aqua Forest tomorrow and I'm back in business!

LOTS to do in the meantime, so off I go...

Cheers!


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Why me?
In messing around, trying to get some things taken care of in preparation for tomorrow night's planting extravaganza, I set the new tank on the stand. Something wasn't quite right. Wouldn't line up right - if the front was flush, the sides wouldn't line up on the cabinet. If the sides were flush, the front and back were skewed. Enter the Tape Measure. That stand was built dead-nuts square. The top is completely flat.

This new tank is out of square by 3/16". One corner to corner measurement is 26-5/16", the other corner to corner is 26-1/2". I measured the old tank - perfectly square. What to do?

Well, the only solution I came up with is to buy a 2'x4' sheet of 1/4" MDF to sit on top of the cabinet and under the Garden Mat. I'll cut it just a few 16ths of an inch bigger all the way around so that the tank is resting completely on surface and not overhanging even the slightest little bit. Flat black spray paint the edges so it blends in with the Mat. I think it'll work out just fine.

I hope...


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Wow, how do they manage that with glass tanks that are supposed to be precisely made. I'd almost be nervous to use that considering how perfect the seams have to be. But hey, Jeff was nice enough to send you a replacement.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Tanks are made in China now...
The seams all look perfect. It's the bottom plate that doesn't seem to be square.
I'll try to snap a pic of the old one next to the new one. The high-clarity glass is beautiful and it's noticeably heavier than the old one, due to the new 6mm glass. I'm assuming there will be much less deflection as well.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

roybot73 said:


> Tanks are made in China now...


Yeah I know. The German made ones were nice.
But still, you know they use squares to keep everything.. square.. while they are applying silicone. How do they manage that. Who knows. I guess their squares are off. 
Oh well.
annnnyyyway...
:redface:


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Tank & cabinet leveled, substrate & additives in, hardscape complete...
Time for a break. Headed into the studio for the first time in a _long_ time.
Planting commences tomorrow right after work.
I've got a super sweet run of pictures to post when all is complete  No teasers, no b.s.

Off to make some bleeps & beats --

Cheers!


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

She's up and running. 

I cut a sheet of 1/4" MDF to 3/16" bigger than the footprint of the tank to deal with the non-square issue. I was having some trouble getting the Garden Mat aligned with the MDF, cabinet and tank so I used some 3M spray adhesive to attach the mat to the board. That way, I was able to trim the mat perfectly flush to the MDF - worked great!

I guess I'll let the pictures speak for themselves. I set up a tripod about 18" in front of the tank and just snapped pics as I went along. 

100% crypts, though I might add some 'belem' sp. hairgrass to the foreground.

Parva
Undulata
Moehlmannii
Pontederiifolia
Walkerii
Ideii
Petchii
Willisii green & brown var.
Crispalliata var. flaccidifolia

Aqua Medic Sun Beam 2x24W with Giesemann Powerchrome Daylight bulbs

I think that's the complete list...


Enjoy!


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

I can't wait to see it filled in

Were you originally planning on having it 100% crypts?


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

I was originally going to include some Anubias petite, but the more I thought about it, the more I liked the idea of a crypt only setup. 

This one's gonna take a while


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

I love the scape :thumbsup:
Very cool


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## niptek (Nov 9, 2008)

what did u do with the old 60P?


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Thanks CL!

niptek - I'm hanging on to it for a rainy day  Could probably be resealed by someone who knew what they were doing. I'm not sure if there are any custom tank builders in my area...


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## deleted_user_16 (Jan 20, 2008)

the fudge? they gave you a new tank? lol, they only gave me 35 bucks back for my 30c >:O


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Fishman - did you deal with Aqua Forest? My tank was originally purchased through Jeff Senske & ADG Shop.

Hooked up CO2 today and ran lights & gas for 6 hours. I'll probably continue that for a month or so. Light is raised up about 12" off the water surface. The water is really brown today, even with carbon in the filter. Big water change lined up for tomorrow a.m., as well as some more planting. I always like to wait a day or so after the initial setup to fill in the empty spots. Most of the crypts were grown emersed originally, so I expect some melting and a slow transition to submersed growth. I've got some Green Gecko on the way as well as some more Lucens. Wouldn't mind some more Parva in the foreground - that stuff grows _slow_. I probably won't dose this at all for at least the first month.
Can't wait til this gets settled in! Should have lots of sweet textures in here:thumbsup:


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## deleted_user_16 (Jan 20, 2008)

oh, i didnt read the ADGShop part, ya i ordered from AFA, wish i had gotten more back tho, haha.

nice scape roybot! gonna be ssick when it fills in


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Most of the plants are perking up, a few leaves are melting. I have actually noticed a bit of new growth on some of the undulatas and crispatula. Water is _really_ brown. I might throw some Purigen in the 2217, as the carbon doesn't seem to be doing much of anything to help clarify. CO2 is cranking at about 4-5 bps and I'm aerating by raising the Lily outflow for a few hours after lights off and in the morning. It's way too loud to keep chugging overnight - sounds like a raging river! 50% water changes every other day. 
Can't wait to transfer the Harlequin Rasboras, Threadfins & Amanos into this tank. I think they'll accent all of the Crypt species quite nicely.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

This thing is no longer 100% crypts - more like ~95% :hihi:
I've added a few sprigs of 'belem' hairgrass, some Alternanthera reineckii and a few cuttings of hygro 'kompacta'. My Green Gecko and Lucens arrived today from overseas smelling like raw sewage but mostly intact due to being relieved of any foliage and extraneous roots. They're mixed in there now, but probably won't be visible for a few weeks. Ammonia is still leaching, seemingly with a vengeance. Water changes are now being performed daily, carbon was removed and Purigen added.

Monolith.


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## volatile (Feb 13, 2007)

This is looking really sweet Roybot73! I can't wait to see what it looks like when it's completely grown out.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Thanks volatile! Like I said before - this one's going to take a while
Just about every plant has thrown up a new leaf, and there's still some melting going on which was to be expected. Out with the old, in with the new.


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

lookin sharp, I really like that last shot. crypts will look nice if you can keep em from meltin


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

That last photo really was spectacular.  Looking good! Subscribed.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Thanks guys!

Most melting has stopped and tank is cycled. The Green Gecko that was planted as bare root "tubers" has exploded out of the substrate. I didn't realize it had red veining in the leaves - very pretty. The pontederiifolia is also shooting out new leaves with red veining (again - didn't realize, but very cool!).

Green Gecko shoots.


















Cheers!


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

No real issues to report, things have been very smooth going. I've been dosing with the DIY Tropica Plant Nutrition + found here: http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/allinone.htm I'm using the DIY TPN+ (3) formula found a bit further down the page.

Super easy to make, zero precipitation or separation. The tank gets 20ml of this all-in-one and 10ml of Excel 3x a week with 5ml of Seachem Iron and 5ml of Flourish after a water change. It really seems to like it 

I've added ~15 Harlequin Rasboras, 6 Threadfin Rainbows, 3 Botia Sidthimunki, 1 Oto and 6 Dark Green Caridina shrimp. Those shrimp are pretty much impossible to see in the tank, unless they're on a red plant.

I've also added one pot of the FAN Parva. The new leaves that are growing in are smaller and look very much like the existing Parva in the tank.

Sorry about the dirty pipes, but hey - that's life


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## volatile (Feb 13, 2007)

Lookin good Roybot73! I was about to ask you where the update was since it's been a month. I really like the 2nd shot and how it is filling in. Do you have any issues with algae?


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

volatile said:


> Lookin good Roybot73! I was about to ask you where the update was since it's been a month. I really like the 2nd shot and how it is filling in. Do you have any issues with algae?


Thanks! There was a small diatom bloom towards the end of the cycle, but the Oto has since taken care of that. The only other other algae is a _minute_ amount of some small hair algae on a few plants. IME that stuff tends to go away on it's own as the tank matures. roud:

*Lots* of water changes as the tank cycled  Still doing 2 a week.


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## deleted_user_16 (Jan 20, 2008)

hows that light workin for ya ? ive heard great things about it!


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## dewalltheway (Jan 19, 2005)

Looking good! Don't you just love the threadfin rainbows? I put 12 of them in a 15 gal tank I have and they are beautiful fish.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

fishman9809 said:


> hows that light workin for ya ? ive heard great things about it!


I love it! I have to be a bit careful around the reflectors because they're just kinda hanging out in the open, and I do have to clean water splats off of the reflectors after I've raised the outflow for aeration, but that's really not a big deal at all. I'm pretty sure this light would be able to grow _anything_ put under it. 48w total -- suck on that, HLD people. :hihi:



dewalltheway said:


> Looking good! Don't you just love the threadfin rainbows? I put 12 of them in a 15 gal tank I have and they are beautiful fish.


Thanks! I have to say that Threadfins are among my favorite freshwater fish species. I was a little worried about them being able to handle the current of the 2217 in this tank, but they're so slim and streamlined that they're doing just fine -- in fact, they actually seem to like it quite a bit. Both the Threadfins and the Rasboras will position themselves directly in the filter outflow and "surf" it. Very cool to watch!


----------



## Lindo (Apr 12, 2009)

I have 7 threadfin (with others) in my 3 footer and I love them. Particularly when they start displaying.

Wonderful fish

You tank is very appealing.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Lindo said:


> I have 7 threadfin (with others) in my 3 footer and I love them. Particularly when they start displaying.
> 
> Wonderful fish
> 
> You tank is very appealing.


Glad you find my tank appealing 

I might head to the LFS after work to round up a few more Threadfins. 6 just doesn't seem like enough :hihi:
Maybe another Sidthimunki as well - those things are a full-on comedy show!! Tons of "personality".


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

Hey... the new scape is looking great  what light are you using?


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Thanks dude!

Light is one of these: http://www.aqua-medic.com/T5_Sun_Beam.shtml

24" 2x24W running Giesseman Powerchrome Daylight bulbs.


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## deleted_user_16 (Jan 20, 2008)

have you ever run anything besides giesemann bulbs in the fixture? i am thinking of replacing my bulbs(once they burn out) with giesemann, but i don't really know if its worth it.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

I have not, but I can tell you anyway -- they are _totally_ worth every penny.


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## deleted_user_16 (Jan 20, 2008)

i heard they are brighter, despite them pulling the same wattage...hmm, that sounds nice lol


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Very bright with _excellent_ color rendition. Greens are green (different shades are discernable as well), reds are red and everything in between looks as it should. Fish show their true colors without appearing garish.

Can't lose roud:


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Roybot73 I know you've only had them for a short while but I have a question about your experience so far with the Botia Sidthimunki. My LFS had a ton of these a while back and I was dying to get some but @ $14.99 each I couldn't really pull the trigger on a group of 6-9 at the time. 
One of my main concerns is everywhere I read says that Botia in general are "expert" jumpers and a tightly closed lid is a must... well I like my open top.  At the same time I don't want to spend a bunch of boot on a group and then have them end up as fish chips behind the tank. Have yours stayed in the tank so far? 

I've never had any jumpers from my tanks. Ever. But then again I've limited my selections to species that aren't known for it.


----------



## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

They're _very_ hesitant to get near the surface, so I can't see how they'd be "expert" jumpers. They're awesome little fish with tons of personality. My tank is also completely snail free because of them. They like to hide out in the thickets of background crypts and occasionally venture forward to harmlessly harass some of the other fish - Otos in particular. It's pretty funny to watch. Sometimes they'll rest on a rock or plant leaf like the Otos do. They go completely crazy for frozen bloodworms.

I say go for it! Get a group of 3 or so to start and ease more of them in over time if your LFS will hold them for you.


----------



## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Thanks man. They did still have 9-10 but I made a mistake on the asking price... $29.99 per fish! Even with my 20% club discount a nice batch of them is $$$. 

Oh well I sold some narrow leaf for store credit and got 3 clown plecos just to tide me over.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

*$29.99?!?!?!?!???!!!*

Dude, that's in-freaking-sane. I got mine for $11.99!!!


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Yea. One of our better local fish places has moved into an upscale part of town and the prices are pretty ridiculous.  Other places around me wouldn't have some of the more odd fishes and they most certainly wouldn't be as healthy. Might be cheaper for me to drive to NY to get some.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Finally trimmed the Alternanthera after it started to emerge. The Hygro kompacta's leaves (back left corner) have grown to a size I've never seen with this plant - they're almost 6" long.

I switched back to my ADA Pollen Glass Type-2 diffuser while cleaning the Rhinox, and I've noticed something very interesting about the way it works. 
Because of the disc being situated further down in the diffuser, the escaping bubbles are kept in the diffuser longer due to the filter outflow creating a vortex within the diffuser. This results (I think...) in a higher efficiency of CO2 dissolving into the water column. I watched this for a good long while and some of the micro bubbles never even make it over the rim of the diffuser - they dissolve completely. I've lowered my gas rate to ~1 BPS.
_Any_ ceramic diffuser, over time, will start to let bigger bubbles out of the disc, this is why it's good to have more than one on hand. When cleaned & completely dried out they work almost as good as brand new.

Plants are happy, fish are happy :thumbsup:




































See the shrimp?


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

it starting to look pretty nice. i can't wait to se it next month. also, those rasboras totally look like they belong in there. good fish choice.


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Glorious! And on top of that its low maintenance. Fantastic job dude. 

I'm green with stone, botia, and photography skills envy.


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

booooooteeeeeeeefuuuuuuuull


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

oldpunk78 said:


> it starting to look pretty nice. i can't wait to se it next month. also, those rasboras totally look like they belong in there. good fish choice.


Thanks man! I think the same thing about the Rasboras - I kind of wanted to keep SE Asian fish in a mostly Crypt filled tank. Not necessarily a biotope, but just kinda keeping it "together", you know?



MrJG said:


> Glorious! And on top of that its low maintenance. Fantastic job dude.
> 
> I'm green with stone, botia, and photography skills envy.


Aww man, I'm blushing here! :icon_redf



chase127 said:


> booooooteeeeeeeefuuuuuuuull


Thanks dude!roud:


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

I've tried... but I can't find the shrimp.

By the way Adam Franklin & Bolts of Melody will be around you in Feb. if you didn't catch them at the Mercury Lounge on the 5th. 
Wed 02/03/10
Brooklyn, NY
No venue listed for the show yet though. I'll hit you with a pm if I see one pop up.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Thought about hitting the show on the 31st in Toronto, that's the closest one to me. NYC is about 8-10 hours away. Toronto is 90 minutes away.

Shrimp is hanging at about 12 o'clock


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## dantra (May 25, 2007)

roybot73 said:


> Plants are happy, fish are happy :thumbsup:


As they should be. You have a beautiful aquarium and fish look healthy and happy. I'll have to agree, your photography skills are very nice. Looking forward to seeing this grow out. roud:

Dan


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## esteroali (Oct 24, 2007)

*Nice!*

Very nice tank, looking forward to seeing it progress.


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## niptek (Nov 9, 2008)

Your tank is looking good. I was thinking about rasboras in my 60P. how many do you have in there?


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

dantra said:


> As they should be. You have a beautiful aquarium and fish look healthy and happy. I'll have to agree, your photography skills are very nice. Looking forward to seeing this grow out. roud:
> 
> Dan


Thanks Dan! Working on the photo skills, still trying to figure out this D90 :hihi: 



esteroali said:


> Very nice tank, looking forward to seeing it progress.


Thanks esteroali. I'm patiently looking forward to progress as well! _Patiently_ being the operative word - this thing's growing _S L O W_



niptek said:


> Your tank is looking good. I was thinking about rasboras in my 60P. how many do you have in there?


Thanks niptek! I've got 16 Harlies, 6 Threadfins, 3 Otos, 3 sidthimunki & 6 green shrimp in there.


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## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

this will be stunning once filled in


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Thanks Cm!

Tank video...

http://www.vimeo.com/9168219


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

Nice vid


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Thanks dude!


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

mmm back with a video! Excellent man. This thing is abnormally clear, I call shenanigans.


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## Fat Guy (Nov 19, 2003)

roybot73 said:


> Thanks Cm!
> 
> Tank video...
> 
> http://www.vimeo.com/9168219



that was really great. nice work!!


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

MrJG said:


> mmm back with a video! Excellent man. This thing is abnormally clear, I call shenanigans.


Thanks JG! That was the first test of our Kodak Zi8 hd handheld, though iMovie seems to have compressed the 60 fps 720p into something else...
Gotta look into it
If "shenanigans" means "Purigen", then you've hit the nail right on the head, my man :hihi:



Fat Guy said:


> that was really great. nice work!!


Thank you, sir :thumbsup:


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## volatile (Feb 13, 2007)

Hey roybot73,

It's been over a month. Where are your updates of this amazing tank? :red_mouth


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## niptek (Nov 9, 2008)

no update? =)


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Sorry guys. Life is crazy busy these days...

Things are going very well.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

pretty awesome growth and colors.


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

i really love ur tank!!!


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## volatile (Feb 13, 2007)

I just find this whole tank very aesthetically pleasing. I like the rocks, the placement of everything, and how the the plants mesh together.

Your harlequins are looking a bit plump there though roybot73 lol. 
A full tank shot or another video when you have time would be nice too. 

I hope you are going to submit this tank into the ADA 2010 International Aquatic Plants Layout Contest? Here is the link to apply. :red_mouth


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Thanks for the compliments Volatile, problemman & mistergreen!

I'll try to get an updated fts this weekend, but I can't promise anything 
I've never once thought about entering a contest. I'll see how this fills in over the next month and maybe reconsider if it's still in decent shape.


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## Voozle (Mar 22, 2009)

I love any tank with dwarf chained loaches, and this is no exception. Interesting to see such a high tech tank filled with mostly low requirement plants, but in a good way; it looks beautiful. Very colorful arrangement.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Hey all. This tank has sort of fallen by the wayside as I've turned my interests to the habitat preparation and eventual care and wrangling of an 8 lb, 5 oz man-cub born on May 25th, 2010. He's a hell of a lot cooler than any aquarium I've ever dealt with 

I did, however, perform a water change today and tore out a bunch of BBA and too-tall species that never fit the scape in the first place. I hope to dig in bit by bit over the next few weeks and remove ~40% of the biomass to sort of reset the tank in a more simple fashion.


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

roybot73 said:


> Hey all. This tank has sort of fallen by the wayside as I've turned my interests to the habitat preparation and eventual care and wrangling of an 8 lb, 5 oz man-cub born on May 25th, 2010. He's a hell of a lot cooler than any aquarium I've ever dealt with
> 
> I did, however, perform a water change today and tore out a bunch of BBA and too-tall species that never fit the scape in the first place. I hope to dig in bit by bit over the next few weeks and remove ~40% of the biomass to sort of reset the tank in a more simple fashion.


Congrats! Careful though once they get teeth they aren't afarid to use them to bite anything that fits!


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## Dan the Man (Sep 8, 2009)

Congrats! Sounds like you got your priorities in check.

-Dan


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## chris.rivera3 (Apr 15, 2008)

Congrats!!!


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## dantra (May 25, 2007)

Congratulations!


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Thanks guys!
I'll be back at it soon enough -- just need to find the happy medium between baby, wife, work, band, friends, golf...
No big deal :hihi:


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

roybot73 said:


> Hey all. This tank has sort of fallen by the wayside as I've turned my interests to the habitat preparation and eventual care and wrangling of an 8 lb, 5 oz man-cub born on May 25th, 2010. He's a hell of a lot cooler than any aquarium I've ever dealt with
> 
> I did, however, perform a water change today and tore out a bunch of BBA and too-tall species that never fit the scape in the first place. I hope to dig in bit by bit over the next few weeks and remove ~40% of the biomass to sort of reset the tank in a more simple fashion.



Congratulations!!! Not only do we have the same taste in tanks but my wife and I are expecting a little girl on August 29th! :biggrin:

I hope to transform my mini-m (currently high light & co2) into something like this after I switch the co2 over to my 60-p. I love a lush forest of crypts and maybe some Anubis. Hopefully they will do good sans the extra carbon I know they love.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Testing... 
Testing...


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

looking good!


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

VadimShevchuk said:


> looking good!


HaHa! That was then, my friend!

This tub has been through hell as of late. BBA, BGA, GDA...
It was a soupy, naaaassssty mess. Flow from the 2217 was a mere trickle. Anyone who knows that filter knows that's pretty, pretty, _pretty_ dirty.

I nuked the BGA with Maracyn earlier this week to great success. This morning I removed about 30% of the crypts, especially the longer & taller species. I scraped & cleaned the glass, vacuumed the substrate, backflushed the filter (the tubing from a Python water changer fits _perfectly_ on the outflow of a 2217! Put it in the tub, hook it up & let 'er rip until the water flows clear!  ), cleaned all the glassware & changed the diffuser. Tomorrow I'm going to trim things up & really get into the detail cleaning.

The light was raised up to about 14" off the tank rim and I knocked an hour off the photoperiod. Dosing will be done every other day as an EI "light" type of schedule. I'm taking a cue from my Finnex 4 gallon at work. It's planted similarly to this tank. That thing is in absolutely fantastic shape and I do almost nothing to it. Dose once a week, top off as needed and 1/2 tank water change once a month.

Hopefully this tank will be back to it's former glory in no time :hihi:


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

roybot73 said:


> HaHa! That was then, my friend!
> 
> This tub has been through hell as of late. BBA, BGA, GDA...
> It was a soupy, naaaassssty mess. Flow from the 2217 was a mere trickle. Anyone who knows that filter knows that's pretty, pretty, _pretty_ dirty.
> ...


I have a 37 gallon with an eheim 2217 and i am fighting BGA also, what a pain! It grows like a weed:icon_excl


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Clean out as much as you can & hit it with Maracyn. Keep up on your N dosing.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

A few new inhabitants. 

Puntius pentazona. Definitely getting more of these when the LFS restocks. They love to cruise the lower strata with the Rasboras. These pics do them no justice. 










Burmese Red Stripe Rasboras. Again, the pics do no justice. These things are gorgeous.










One sorry looking tank  Lots of plants trimmed, lots of room to fill back in.


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## malaybiswas (Nov 2, 2008)

Congrats for the new arrival. Much more challenging and fun than tackling BBA :red_mouth. Tank looks good too with the reduced plant load.


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## Fat Guy (Nov 19, 2003)

awesome


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## VincentK (Dec 16, 2009)

Are those tiger barbs? I thought tiger barbs had less stripes.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Thanks guys!



VincentK said:


> Are those tiger barbs? I thought tiger barbs had less stripes.


I corrected the name in my post -- these are Pentazona barbs. Couldn't be further from Tiger barbs in terms of behavior. Super chill, not nippy at all. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentazona_barb


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

This tank is rebounding with what seems to be a vengeance. In addition to the last few new tank residents, I've added 4 more Sidthimunkis for a total of 7 and 5 Corydoras sp. whose name escapes me at the moment. They've all done a bang-up job on deep cleaning the Aquasoil. 
All plants are exhibiting signs of vigorous new growth. New 'green gecko' leaves are pretty cool looking, as are those of 'undulata'. I've started dosing 2 ml of Flourish Iron per week which everything seems to appreciate. Algae is almost completely gone, just a few grey nuked spots of BBA that have yet to fall off of the rocks.
Bulbs have been changed to a Life Glo in front and rather unexpectedly pink Icecap
10,000 K in rear. It doesn't give the effect I was looking for, but I think it works rather well.



















Please forgive the q&d iPhone pics


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Nice, man!


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## malaybiswas (Nov 2, 2008)

Hey your crypt mix on the back is somewhat, what I plan for my tank as well. I love the mix of red and green leaves in a bush. Love your tank. Will subscribe.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Thanks guys! A mix of crypts can give a really nice range of colors & textures. I yanked a few new plantlets of 'Tropica' from my work nano to add to the mix. They've got a really nice striated & hammered look to them.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Just a quick update. Still chugging along with a weekly 5 gallon waterchange & 10 ml Excel dosage. 4 ml premixed EI solution & 2 ml micros takes care of the daily dosing. About mid week I add about 5 drops of ECA & 5 drops of Green Gain is added occasionally.
I'm going to thin some of the Undulata this weekend - that plant gets pretty big. There's some Tenellus micro and Hydrocortle in there now (I'll get to the S&S feedback soon, Speedie & Niptek  ).
I'd like to get some more Pentazona barbs soon.






































Thanks for looking!


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## deleted_user_7 (Jul 7, 2003)

Very nice. Is that all Crypt. Parva? Ive been wanting to try some. How do you like it?


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Thanks. It is indeed parva. I love it but is is one of the slowest spreading plants I've ever worked with. Because of this, I'm trying to fill in some space with 'belem' hairgrass. They seem to work well together.


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## chris.rivera3 (Apr 15, 2008)

looking good!!! your crypt background is making me want to redo my tank background :icon_smil


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

chris.rivera3 said:


> looking good!!! your crypt background is making me want to redo my tank background :icon_smil


Ha! I'll sell you some of mine  Between this tank and my work nano, I'll be thinning out quite a few! I'd like to get some kind of stem thing happening in here -- the crypts are nice, but it's time to shift gears a little.

I ended up adding another 10 Pentazona barbs over the weekend. They're an awesome fish for a planted tank that I'm surprised we don't see more of. They school well, they're brilliantly colored and very mildly mannered. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

I'll post some newer pics sometime soon... :hihi:


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Where did you get the barbs? I might have to copy you and put them in my 60-p.


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Lookin' good man! The brown crypts add some nice colors in there.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

MrJG said:


> Lookin' good man! The brown crypts add some nice colors in there.


Thanks dude!

bsmith -- Go for it!
My LFS usually has them. ~$3 each.


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## Cardinal Tetra (Feb 26, 2006)

I really like this tank! It's a nice change from the normal collection of stem plants one regularly sees. What species do you have?


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Cardinal Tetra said:


> I really like this tank! It's a nice change from the normal collection of stem plants one regularly sees. What species do you have?


Thanks!

I'll probably murder some of the spelling, but...

Crypts:
parva
walkerii
petchii
moehlmannii
undulata
green gecko
Tropica
pontederiifolia

Also, the foreground consists of Eleocharis 'belem', Echinodorus tenellus 'micro' & Hydrocotyle leucocephala. Background has a few stems of Creeping Jenny that I scavenged from my brother's garden a few weeks back. Tucked in amongst the rocks are Anubias 'nana' and 'petite' and some Ammania bonsai.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

The Osram bulbs arrived today  I put one in the front and left the super pink "10K" in the back for now (lazyitis flare up tonite). I like the Osram. Super white appearance and very, very high CRI. I'll put the second one in this weekend.

A few quickies of a dirty tank in need of a top-off...










I _love_ these fish.


















Special thanks to photobucket for killing the true colors of these pics. These pics don't look much different from my previous pics, but the tank really does look better


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## malaybiswas (Nov 2, 2008)

i'm sure it looks much better in real life but these pics are pretty darn good as well.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Can't remember how many of the barbs you got but do you notice any rambunctious behavior resembling tiger barb activity?


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

There are ~20 barbs. Absolutely no aggressive behavior.


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

roybot73 said:


> (I'll get to the S&S feedback soon, Speedie & Niptek  ).


What'd I miss? haha I saw my name but I'm lost. :redface:

Anyway your tank looks Awesome bro! Love the scape and the plant selection. You should do all parva and not mix any belem... the belem will take over eventually. Parva is nice! I wish I had more to fill my 20long faster too. But it's your tank... anything would be nice 

I also like those new Osram bulbs... I think I'll be getting some after my Geisemanns go out. Keep it up man. roud:


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Thanks Speedie! I can't quite tell which foreground plant is winning.

Finally got around to installing the other Osram bulb. I'm sure those of you with full-time jobs and small children will understand the delay . I really, _really_ like the color these bulbs put out.
Not too much else to report, no real issues other than some GDA/GSA to clean off the glass every week. I'm adding a bit extra P to try and get it under control, but at the same time it's really not that big of a deal. I had to thin out the Hydrocortle pretty hard last week. as that stuff is pretty aggressive. The left front corner was full of the stuff, and you can kinda see where the Belem & Parva have been shaded out from it.


ADA 60-P by RChunce, on Flickr


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## greekfish (Aug 10, 2009)

those barbs go well with your plant selection. beautiful tank. :thumbsup:


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

WHat are those barbs and where did you get them? they look amazing.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Thanks guys.
mistergreen - they're Pentazona Barbs and I got them at my LFS.


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## chris.rivera3 (Apr 15, 2008)

any updates?


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## crf529 (Jul 24, 2010)

This is my absolute favorite tank and journal. I love this tank in every one of it's various forms, and of all the ADG and IAPLC tanks I've seen, this is the tank I'd want in my house lol.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

crf529 said:


> This is my absolute favorite tank and journal. I love this tank in every one of it's various forms, and of all the ADG and IAPLC tanks I've seen, this is the tank I'd want in my house lol.


Wow, man -- That's quite a compliment!! :icon_surp:
Thank you very much!

I've been yanking out a lot of the Undulata over the past few weeks and will go in for more today. It's just too big for a tank this size and grows surprsingly fast for a Crypt. All of the Green Gecko I planted is still hiding in the back, so I want to relocate a few of those to the midground. The Belem is being uprooted by the corys & Sidthimunkis, so that's on it's way out too -- I'll let the Parva do it's thing.

I'll try for a few pics later


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Im looking forward to some more good pics. This is a great tank!


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

The tank is in no shape for a worthwhile pic so I figured a few livestock pics might be nice. 
I couldn't decide which of these to upload, so why not use 'em all 

The New Guy.


















Puntius pentazona.


















Thanks for looking!


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## Hussain (Nov 17, 2009)

Love your tank, looks very clean, and your fish looks amazing.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

:thumbsup:Thanks Hussain!


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## chumlee (Nov 4, 2010)

beautiful fish, and nice pics as well!


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## malaybiswas (Nov 2, 2008)

new guys is sure very cute


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Thanks!


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

It's been 3 months, so why not an update?
Well, it's still here. It went through a bit of neglect over the past few months due to the small amount of spare time I had being spent snowboarding. A CrazyBabyChild™ tends to keep a guy busy as well. 
We've got algae -- several types, even. See any tears? Nope. That's how it goes. 
I continue to yank out the undulata when I can. I'd like to get rid of it entirely and just have the parva, petchii & green gecko in there. The layout and planting plan is getting a bit tired, and it's about time for a change. I wish it could be a HUGE change (like a 90-P!!), but that's not gonna happen. I _am_ getting the itch for another nano though...
Gonna move away from the 'mostly crypts' theme and get some stems in here - shake things up a bit.
A few pics? Sure. I just grabbed the Canon p&s for a couple quickies.



















Thanks for checking it out!


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Looks nice. I like the way the parva looks in there. Nice contrast


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Thanks man!
Thinking about yanking everything out & starting fresh...
I bought some Orinoco sand a while back, and it might be time for that. Maybe some wood too.
We shall see...


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## chiefroastbeef (Feb 14, 2011)

I love your tank! It is so well laid out, and has a pure natural look to it.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Thanks, chiefroastbeef! Too kind, too kind...
It looks lazy and uninspired to me :hihi:


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Looks great, ill hater to see the crypts go but im sure you'll do it right. 

On a side note. I just got a d3100 and am trying to gather as much info from hobbyists on how they get their pics and what they use to get them. If you don't want to get into it here feel free to shoot a PM, it would help a great deal.


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

lookin' good! i like the tiger barbs in there too. I've neer kept barbs...

LMK when you trim/pull the Lindernia/true Rotala indica or whatever they are calling it these days if you sell it. I've been looking for a couple 5 stems of that.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

bsmith said:


> Looks great, ill hater to see the crypts go but im sure you'll do it right.
> 
> On a side note. I just got a d3100 and am trying to gather as much info from hobbyists on how they get their pics and what they use to get them. If you don't want to get into it here feel free to shoot a PM, it would help a great deal.


Thanks b -- not gonna get rid of all of the crypts, just want to make some room for some stems to remind me why I got away from stems in the first place 
I'm kind of a hack when it comes to camera talk, but I posted a few links on your thread in the Lounge. Those www.kenrockwell.com guides & tutorials should help a bit. I've got my D90 set on one of his aperture priority programs and I'm pretty lazy about exploring the insane possibilities of that camera. I see jcardona's, speedies & matt's pics (among others) and I feel like a total hack.
Those fish close ups on the last page were taken on a tripod with my Nikkor 85mm f/3.5 DX and available light. Haven't quite gotten into the Speedlights yet...



macclellan said:


> lookin' good! i like the tiger barbs in there too. I've neer kept barbs...
> 
> LMK when you trim/pull the Lindernia/true Rotala indica or whatever they are calling it these days if you sell it. I've been looking for a couple 5 stems of that.


Thanks Joel. Those are actually Pentazona barbs, tiger barbs is _naaasssty_. These guys are super chill, very easy going & peaceful.

If you're asking about the Ammania sp. 'bonsai raging donkey AO32∞', I'll definitely let you know when I trim it.


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

roybot73 said:


> If you're asking about the Ammania sp. 'bonsai raging donkey AO32∞', I'll definitely let you know when I trim it.


 lol! yeah, i meant ammania, not lindernia. thx bud! 



roybot73 said:


> Those are actually Pentazona barbs, tiger barbs is _naaasssty_. These guys are super chill, very easy going & peaceful.


 thx for the info. sound like cool fish!


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## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

nice parva lawn
i know that took a lot of time to fill


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

Tank looks nice!


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

ikuzo said:


> nice parva lawn
> i know that took a lot of time to fill


Thanks & yes it did! It's outcompeting the 'belem' hairgrass I think in part to the cories digging around constantly. It's got some BBA on it, but should hold up well to an Excel nuking.



problemman said:


> Tank looks nice!


Thanks man!


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## malaybiswas (Nov 2, 2008)

Nice growth. Yes, I find E. Belem to be one of the slowest growers in submerged form as well. No doubt the parva is outcompeting it.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

malaybiswas said:


> Nice growth. Yes, I find E. Belem to be one of the slowest growers in submerged form as well. No doubt the parva is outcompeting it.
> 
> Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


Thanks! I'm pretty sure both the parva and belem will be yanked outta here soon, as well as just about everything else. Gonna try to snap some 'farewell' pics this weekend and then start getting ready to switch it up...


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Tank is now void of all plants and hardscape. 
Hopefully, I can finish the new layout by tonight.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Tank is planted, livestock is acclimating. 
I'll post some pics in a day or so...


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Alright, maybe just one


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Here's a halfway decent late nite iPhone pic.
Excuse the bubbles, excuse the barren planting. I'm waiting on 4 pots of Lilaeopsis NZ from sweet aquatics. I ordered them last Monday, so I'm guessing I'll see them sometime in May...
I've also got the feelers out for ~20 more stems of Rotala Macandra 'green', and will be hitting the LFS after work today to pick up some more crypt 'albida'.
I'll get to a plant list and proper write up in the near future.










Thanks for looking!


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Alright...
I took my sweet time changing this thing over and still got done in less than 6 hours. The Aquasoil held up wonderfully and only kicked up a minimum of dust. I let it settle out for a while before I kicked the filter back on, and it never got to the "can't see thru it" state, even after I raked my hands through it to remove errant crypt roots.

I like a lot of ADA's products. I also think there are some really stupid ones, and a few years ago I'd never have thought of buying "ADA wood". The prices on manzanita seem to have gotten really stupid as of late and an attempt to procure wood through a well known vendor never came to fruition. I contacted AFA about some "Branch Wood" (a wholly original moniker...) and Steven & George Lo hooked me up with some super sweet hardscape action at a very reasonable price. Cheaper than most peeps are hawking manzy for these days. I threw the two pieces into a Rubbermaid bin outside and the bigger one sunk in 2 days while the smaller of the two was still very buoyant. I boiled it for about an hour the morning of the rescape, which helped enough to where I just have a small rock holding it down in situ.

I missed the first incarnation of this tank, with it's branchy-jungle-y feel, so I wanted to kind of go that route again. I also miss the look of the halide, but I'm _not_ going that route again. I'll hold out for the price of LEDs to come down, thankyouverymuch.
The whole crypt thing was kinda cool while it lasted, but I made some poor specimen choices. The undulata (as I've griped about all along) is a beautiful plant, but just too big to work well in a 60-P. It also grows crazy fast for a crypt, taking over most of the tank during the duration of this layout. No me gusta. The parva was finally starting to fill in, but was getting covered with BBA, and there's really no efficient way to trim it. No me gusta. I also missed seeing green plants. The rusty, earthy tone of this tank was bringing me down.

This time around we have:
Rotala rotunafolia
Rotala macandra 'green'
Ludwigia x lacustris
(waiting on Myriophyllum mattogrossense)
Crypt 'albida'
Crypt 'Tropica'
Crypt 'lucens' (labelled as such from LFS, but I have my doubts...)
Echinodorus tenellus 'micro' or whatever it's called this week
Lilaeopsis NZ
Anubias nana & petite
mini pellia crammed in some crevices (I'm done with tying mosses & liverworts)

I've got 4 more pots of Lilaeopsis en route, so that should hopefully help fill in the foreground a bit quicker -- that is, if the cories & sidthimunkis don't yank it all out. Buggers.

Simple. Easy to keep in check (famous last words), but still getting back to the wild look eventually. 
EI dosed, Seachem micros, ADA snake oil supplements ECA, Green Gain, Green Bacter. No Excel.

Again, excuse the iPhone capture and yellow tint from [STRIKE]phototoilet[/STRIKE] photobucket. The little dude was already asleep in the room next to this one and the shutter on the D90 is a bit loud (he's inherited my curse of light sleeping...). I'll update after I get some more things planted. :thumbsup:










Thanks for chiggity-checkin'.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Comments? Critiques?


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Nice start Roy. What's the midground crypt? Hopefully it stays short like that... otherwise it'll block your stems too much and become part of the background. 

I'm worried your e. tennellus will later smother the Lilaeopsis since it's literally a weed in comparison. Just gotta stay on top of pruning I suppose. Should be a nice one man. Where's the pinnatifida going?


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

Looks good. Gotta let it grow out to judge.

Weird lily setup there.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

speedie408 said:


> Nice start Roy. What's the midground crypt? Hopefully it stays short like that... otherwise it'll block your stems too much and become part of the background.
> 
> I'm worried your e. tennellus will later smother the Lilaeopsis since it's literally a weed in comparison. Just gotta stay on top of pruning I suppose. Should be a nice one man. Where's the pinnatifida going?


Thanks, Nick. The midground crypt is mostly the supposed "lucens" from my LFS. Like I said, I have my doubts... There are 5 plantlets of crypt 'albida' mixed in there as well. If it seems like it's all getting too tall, I'll yank it & deal with it when the time comes. 
I hear you on the tennellus -- I plan on keeping on top of it. Hopefully the other 4 pots of Lilaeopsis arrive soon...
The pinnatifida was planted just right of center near where the wood comes out across the substrate.



macclellan said:


> Looks good. Gotta let it grow out to judge.
> 
> Weird lily setup there.


Thanks Mac. It is young, yet. Stems have almost reached the surface and will be ready for a trim by Sunday. An additional 20 stems of Rot.Mac.'green' were procured and planted this week. Growing well.
Yeah, the Lily setup...
Not sure if it's staying like this. The wood hits both sides of the tank, and on the left side, the pipes can either go there or more toward the back. I sloped the substrate pretty heavily, so the intake couldn't really fit at the halfway point without the bottom of the pipe hitting the dirt. Also because of the wood, the output flow gets broken up quite a bit, and doesn't quite hit the diffuser where it should for optimal CO2 breakup and dispersion. I'll mess with it this weekend. 

Added a dozen Choprae danios and a Siamese algae eater.

More pics this weekend. 


Thanks for chiming in, guys. I appreciate your input & opinions!


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

roybot73 said:


> Comments? Critiques?


How do you keep your lily pipes so clean?


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

audioaficionado said:


> How do you keep your lily pipes so clean?












This stuff is the *BOMB* for cleaning glassware. Once a month I spray a bunch of it in and let it sit for a few minutes. Any algae turns bright, bright green and is very easily brushed out with a few swipes of a flexible spring type brush. A good rinse in hot water, and you're good to go.
However, I wouldn't use it on any CO2 glassware (though I may try on a cheapie diffuser from the 'Bay...).

Out of the 12 Choprae danios originally added, 5 are left. 7 jumpers in 24 hours. They are the most nervous, skittish fish I've ever kept, though they didn't appear so at the LFS. They are absolutely stunning to see, but simply cannot be kept in an open top aquarium, unless you had a complete cover of floaters. 
I hope I can snap a pic before they're all gone.

The Lilaeopsis is throwing up new shoots, the Pinnafitida looks slow & happy, and I continue to watch the new growth of suspect crypt for clues to it's identity...


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## GDP (Mar 12, 2011)

lookin good. Is that microsword I see?


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

GDP said:


> lookin good. Is that microsword I see?


Thanks, still plenty of time left to fill in!
The foreground is Lilaeopsis novae-zelandiae. I've got more on the way to help the cause.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Some one-week pics, just because. 

Choprae danio


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Nice re-scape. Love the twisty branchy wood too. Good to see you still kickin' it. I've lost my fervor as of late for tank keeping and a new tank or re-scape might just be what the doctor ordered.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

HaHa!!!! There he is!!
I was wondering where you were, man!

Thanks for the compliment, and I know what you mean about "losing fervor".

No more excuses -- get on it & rescape, bro!


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

those danios are sweet!


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

I liked the crypts, but looking forward to the new look.

'Scuse my ignorance, but who is that good looking blue & red guy in your tank?


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

macclellan said:


> those danios are sweet!


Thanks man. Yes they are sweet, I just wish they'd stay _in_ the tank. Out of the 7 jumpers, I only found two. This leads me to believe that a certain housemate of the feline persuasion had herself a tasty midnite snacky-snack. 



audioaficionado said:


> I liked the crypts, but looking forward to the new look.
> 
> 'Scuse my ignorance, but who is that good looking blue & red guy in your tank?


Thanks -- it was time for a change. That handsome devil is a dwarf gourami, aka _colisa lalia_.


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## slicebo123 (Jan 4, 2010)

i have a gourami with rasboras in my 60 cm tank and was having a lot of jumpers. I think i might have bought some 30 rasboras total trying to replace ones i found on the floor.

I would suggest upping the food big time. This has seemed to help a lot. I've also been keeping the water level a good inch or two from the top (i don't like this but its better than spending more $$ on fish). The biggest thing was the food. Also, a few days ago when I saw the gourami chasing my rasboras, I gave him a good thwack with my tweezers. Haha, so far, this in combination with more food has worked.


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

Some fish aren't the best choices for topless tanks.

I like the noise that my red-eyed tetras make when they bounce off the glass tops. Each time I feel like I saved a life, as they are like: WTF?


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

So, my sweet aquatics order arrived today. Ordered April 13th, arrived May 5th. 
Not cool. 
Also not cool is the fact that the Myriophyllum I ordered is mostly a pile of brown mush, and the stems that happened to make it are completely infested with spirogyra algae. 



















The giant wads of Lilaeopsis NZ are also completely infested with spirogyra algae. That blob on my thumb is just the tiny bit that I yanked out of the plant mass. 










Think this junk is going in my tank? Nope. 
This is not a review of the company, just an observation.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Well, Sweet is going to make good on the spirogyra'd order. Very cool. 
The downside ia that my foreground is going to take *forever* to fill. Oh well, I've got time, and this ain't a race.
The stems have received their first good trimming and the tops have been replanted. Growing well, so far. I've got a bad feeling about the mystery crypts. I think they're 'undulata'. I'm gonna start yanking 'em out. No biggie, I guess - the Hygro Pinnatifida is doing awesome. Great plant. It wasn't part of the original plan but is fitting in very well. I can't wait to start selling trimmings on the CHEAP to try to spread it around a bit, though the price is coming down as of late. Some of these "new" plant prices are just plain stupid, but I digress...
I'm down to one Choprae danio. Lesson learned. 
Pet"Smart" had Harlies on sale for $1 each so I re-upped with 8 of 'em. Some may say they're 'played out' or 'over-used', but whatevs-- I like 'em and they school really well 

Crappy iPhone pics...



















Thanks for looking!:thumbsup:


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## speedie408 (Jan 15, 2009)

Tank is coming along GREAT bro. Sorry for charging you an arm n leg on that pinnatifida lol. It was the going rate at the time you bought. It has come down in price dramatically yes. Why?? I'll tell you why... this plant is a complete and utter weed. If it hasn't spat out babies for you yet, it will very soon. You'll have plenty to sell/share. 

*edit* I missed the post about your SA shipment. That sucks man. I thought SA was one of the GoTo online plant shops? Guess everyplace has their bad days. Hope they make it right for you. I've got the real deal "mini microswords" avail if you wanna try them as your main foreground plant. I think it'll look awesome in there. Since you've got patience this plant will be great for you. It grows hella SLOW.  LMK.


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

I just received my Sweet order ($60 worth) this past Saturday, and it was absolutely awful! the only things I was able to keep were the potted plants, and a handful of Nesaea stems. I found 3 kinds of algae (spirogyra, green spot, and hair algae) along with lots of U. gibba wrapped around and through just about everything I ordered. It was absolutely awful and they should be ashamed of themselves. That being said, I'm not even bothering with contacting them and having them right this wrong. I will simply never order from them again. 

Anyway, I'm sorry you had issues with them also. It's just, I'm happy to know I'm not the only one who got screwed by them.

On a much happier note, your tank looks awesome! It will only get better once your foreground comes in.


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## Kazuya (Apr 4, 2011)

Love the manzy wood. If it did not cost so much to get it shipped out here I would jump on it.

As for Harley's I like that little fish. Probably will not get them for my set up but who knows.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

speedie408 said:


> Tank is coming along GREAT bro. Sorry for charging you an arm n leg on that pinnatifida lol. It was the going rate at the time you bought. It has come down in price dramatically yes. Why?? I'll tell you why... this plant is a complete and utter weed. If it hasn't spat out babies for you yet, it will very soon. You'll have plenty to sell/share.
> 
> *edit* I missed the post about your SA shipment. That sucks man. I thought SA was one of the GoTo online plant shops? Guess everyplace has their bad days. Hope they make it right for you. I've got the real deal "mini microswords" avail if you wanna try them as your main foreground plant. I think it'll look awesome in there. Since you've got patience this plant will be great for you. It grows hella SLOW.  LMK.



I didn't mean to imply that _you_ were overcharging for the plant! It was the going rate, and I was glad to pay it - especially from a dude such as yourself 
It just seems to be the case with any new plant/shrimp/fish. Simple economics -- supply/demand.
Thanks for the compliment - it's filling in at a comfortable pace right now 
I might take you up on that micro stuff... We'll see how this stuff looks in another few weeks.
Yeah - Sweet seems to have fallen off a bit. Again, I don't want to bad mouth them, and they did offer to refund or replace (refund, please!), but to make people wait weeks for a truly substandard product just ain't gonna cut it among plant hobbyist-geeks such as ourselves.



Church said:


> I just received my Sweet order ($60 worth) this past Saturday, and it was absolutely awful! the only things I was able to keep were the potted plants, and a handful of Nesaea stems. I found 3 kinds of algae (spirogyra, green spot, and hair algae) along with lots of U. gibba wrapped around and through just about everything I ordered. It was absolutely awful and they should be ashamed of themselves. That being said, I'm not even bothering with contacting them and having them right this wrong. I will simply never order from them again.
> 
> Anyway, I'm sorry you had issues with them also. It's just, I'm happy to know I'm not the only one who got screwed by them.
> 
> On a much happier note, your tank looks awesome! It will only get better once your foreground comes in.


It can be a pain to contact them, but do NOT let them take your money, church. They will refund or replace.
The algae is unacceptable, and as you probably know, spirogyra is pretty much a cancer in a planted tank. 

Thanks for the kind words! The foreground is cool -- in the morning when the lights are off, the individual blades stand up very straight and tall. As the photoperiod goes on, they start to curl like little standing cobras 
Can't wait to see more of it!


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

Those rimless tanks just look so awesome. Too bad they wouldn't be a good fit for my home as I have family members who have very heavy feet and cause minor earth tremors whenever they walk by. I'd have to have very laid back fish to not have 'em jumping out. That and several cats that would be waiting for it to happen.


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

lookin' good!

sucks about the SA order.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Kazuya said:


> Love the manzy wood. If it did not cost so much to get it shipped out here I would jump on it.
> 
> As for Harley's I like that little fish. Probably will not get them for my set up but who knows.


Thanks, Kazuya. The wood was purchased here. It was pretty reasonably priced, actually. It looked similar to what you have in your tank when it was dry, and has gotten progressively darker.



audioaficionado said:


> Those rimless tanks just look so awesome. Too bad they wouldn't be a good fit for my home as I have family members who have very heavy feet and cause minor earth tremors whenever they walk by. I'd have to have very laid back fish to not have 'em jumping out. That and several cats that would be waiting for it to happen.


Thanks, audioaficionado. This tank is kind of tucked away in the the home office on the second floor of our house. I have to remind my very tiny & dainty but heavy stepping wife to tread lightly when she walks by it :hihi:
I'm pretty sure our cat has helped to dispose of at least a few jumpers...



macclellan said:


> lookin' good!
> 
> sucks about the SA order.


Thanks Joel. C'est la vie... At least they're hooking me up with a refund.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

I'm thinking of getting an ADA style rimless tank not too far in the future. Next year maybe. I'd have to build a clear acrylic frame with clear mono filament woven screen cover to go over the tank so as not to block too much light and save some expensive Roselines that I'd have to have in it. There's just something magical about these tanks where you strip all the opaque tank elements away so you can have an unobstructed view of the work of art that planted tanks are.

Keep up the good work. Your tank is an inspiration for me to create my own someday.


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## Kazuya (Apr 4, 2011)

Sorry about the mix up. I skimmed through that last 2 pages back and thought it was manzanita. I can ask the distributor here how LONG IT WOULD take him to get it to me.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

audioaficionado said:


> I'm thinking of getting an ADA style rimless tank not too far in the future. Next year maybe. I'd have to build a clear acrylic frame with clear mono filament woven screen cover to go over the tank so as not to block too much light and save some expensive Roselines that I'd have to have in it. There's just something magical about these tanks where you strip all the opaque tank elements away so you can have an unobstructed view of the work of art that planted tanks are.
> 
> Keep up the good work. Your tank is an inspiration for me to create my own someday.


Thanks! Good luck with your project - I'm glad to have been an inspiration!



Kazuya said:


> Sorry about the mix up. I skimmed through that last 2 pages back and thought it was manzanita. I can ask the distributor here how LONG IT WOULD take him to get it to me.


No worries 


So, in doing a little basement clean up yesterday I cane across a clear housing whole house carbon block water filter that I used to use for treating my homebrewing water (I've since switched to using crushed Campden tablets, but that's a different story for a different thread...).
One quick trip to Home Deep to pick up some male threaded barbed nylon adapters to replace the brass, and about 10 minutes of tinkering later and I had myself a super sweet Cerges reactor. No need to drill out the priming/purging button either, so it can be easily switched back if I ever feel the need.
All I can say, is "wow".

Granted, I did a water change yesterday too, but I've _never_ seen my stems look like this before the reactor:









The only issue I have now, is trying to fit everything back under my cabinet 
I'll have to get creative later...


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Wow that is some pearling!


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Ain't it, though?!
I'm really looking forward to getting home today to see how everything looks...


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Well, the reactor is out of the picture for now - or at least on _this_ tank 
When I finally have enough room for a 90-P, that's definitely the approach I'm going to take.
There's simply not enough room for a 2217, Hydor heater, 10 lb CO2 cylinder _AND_ a Cerges reactor in this cabinet. I wish I could make it happen, but as they say, "Wish in one hand..."
So it's back to the trusty Pollen Glass Type 1. I never minded the equipment or bubbles in the tank, I was just looking for more consistent CO2 levels without the weekly maintenance.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

When I get around to building another tank stand, I'm just going to hang veneer sides on the frame with magnets for 360° access. It's too hard trying to pack all those equipment goodies all in from just the front.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

That's good idea -- I've just simply run out of room in this cabinet...


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Still here, still filling in. I like the way this is growing-- nice and thick without being out if control (yet). My crypt concerns are waylaid for the time being, as everything is staying fairly compact. The Rotala mexicana 'goias' didn't like this tank one bit, which is a shame. I was hoping to add another texture.
My dwarf gourami succumbed to a bacterial infection last weekend. The silver lining here is that the other fish are out & about quite a bit more. He was a bit of a bully and a food pig.











Life moves fast during the summer months...


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Forgot to mention what a PITA the Lilaeopsis is. It seems to be growing fairly quickly, but either the corys, sidthimunkis or Malaysian snails keep uprooting it.
I'll give it another month, and then it's prolly gonna be switched out for good ol' fashioned crazy fast growing hairgrass.

_Aaaand_...
Sweet Aquatics hasn't responded to my request for their offered refund.
Pretty crappy business practice.


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

Wow look at all that cool glass ware...looks like a combo biology/chemistry lab assignment.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

I've stepped the dosing of both macros & micros to accomodate the increased plant mass. Seems to be responding well so far. 
The Lilaeopsis just wasn't feeling it in this tank. I replaced it with some *STAUROGYNE REPENS*. I hope it can stand up to my rugged ground crew of cories & sidthimunkis. From what I've read, it seems to develop a pretty burly root system once established? Let's hope so. I like it - it's a pretty cool contrast to the rest of the tones in this tank.
You'll notice a powerhead. I'm not thrilled with it being in there, but it does help a great deal with dispersing CO2, and just generally keeping things moving. 
I don't know how anyone can say that a 2217 is too much filter for a 60-P. With fresh filter pads it seems just about right. 

One of these days I'll get out the real camera, but for now - it's the iPhone...


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## .Mko. (Sep 23, 2010)

I love your crypts period
tank looks awesome!


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Tank will be decommissioned soon. No time to take care of it while chasing a crazy toddler around and working 50+ hours a week.


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## Uptown193 (Apr 25, 2011)

Damn, it sucks to read most of your thread and then see in the end that you decommissioning it.


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