# is this too much light for a 10 gallon?



## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I suspect you'll probably either need to lower your lighting or stick with regular Excel dosing if you don't want to use CO2.


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

If you will look on the CFL chart on this thread, you will see why most who have used those eventually get down to one @ 13W.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=184368
I'll go/w the idea that your fixture has poor reflectors and the chart is meant for good reflectors. So If this is true...you may still have 250 PAR in there.
One tank that I saw which had no algae but good plant growth had one of those in
a Home DEpot clamp on light fixture($9) which he had taken off the clamp and spray painted the outside black and the inside white and hung it by the cord from a shelf bracket over the tank about 18" from the substrate.


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## AGUILAR3 (Jun 22, 2013)

Here's a good topic on Par Data.


http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=85667&page=2


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## kidgrave (Feb 4, 2014)

Everyone thanks for the replies. I think that 2x13 Watt CFLs in a 10 gallon tank are only too much if using lamps with those really good reflectors. In a few days, I'm going to stop dosing CO2 into my tank, and let you know how things go with my tank. Personally, I don't think that 2x13 CFLs without those lamps are too much because those bulbs are not efficient.


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

I am guessing that the bulbs will be mounted horizontally. If yes, then you will be down to ~50% of PAR if they were hung vertically.

In short, with 2 x 13w right over a 10g you will be at the higher end of low light.







v3


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## AGUILAR3 (Jun 22, 2013)

I'm running a single 10w cfl (9 hrs) on my sons 10g grow-out/holding tank that houses giant Vals, Hornwort, Najas (guppy grass), crypts and water lettuce and everything is doing great(3 weeks)

Why do you need so much light? Is a single hanging cfl even an option? We had a conventional hood and decided to not use it even though it would have gave us a much cleaner look.


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## shawnwaldon (Dec 5, 2013)

Before I changed my 10 gallon over to a saltwater setup I was using 2 20 watt bulbs without any co2 and had no issues. I kept my lights on for between 8 and 12 hours a day. 
Granted I did get a little algae, but nothing I could not handle with a window scraper once or twice a week.


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## jem_xxiii (Apr 5, 2013)

I use 2 13watt CFL's on my 10g and have not had any problems. At the beginning I had a little algae but nothing nerites couldn't take care off. Once your tank balances out its a breeze.


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## AGUILAR3 (Jun 22, 2013)

jem_xxiii said:


> I use 2 13watt CFL's on my 10g and have not had any problems.


How were they mounted?


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## jem_xxiii (Apr 5, 2013)

AGUILAR3 said:


> How were they mounted?


horizontally in a standard 10g hood.


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## kidgrave (Feb 4, 2014)

AGUILAR3 said:


> How were they mounted?


I am using an Aqueon Economy Full Hood. It's one of those fixtures that allows you to put two incandescent light bulbs. In place of the incandescent lights, I use the two CFL bulbs there. I bought that hood for the purpose of not getting a glass top and using those hang on lamps.


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## kidgrave (Feb 4, 2014)

jem_xxiii said:


> I use 2 13watt CFL's on my 10g and have not had any problems. At the beginning I had a little algae but nothing nerites couldn't take care off. Once your tank balances out its a breeze.


How do you have your CFL lights mounted. Are you using an Aqueon Economy Hood?


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## kidgrave (Feb 4, 2014)

shawnwaldon said:


> Before I changed my 10 gallon over to a saltwater setup I was using 2 20 watt bulbs without any co2 and had no issues. I kept my lights on for between 8 and 12 hours a day.
> Granted I did get a little algae, but nothing I could not handle with a window scraper once or twice a week.


When you had 2x20 Watt bulbs, what type of fixture were you using for your lights, and what type of plants were you growing?


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## kidgrave (Feb 4, 2014)

OVT said:


> I am guessing that the bulbs will be mounted horizontally. If yes, then you will be down to ~50% of PAR if they were hung vertically.
> 
> In short, with 2 x 13w right over a 10g you will be at the higher end of low light.
> View attachment 302970
> ...


I think that using par charts for comparison is confusing because some light fixtures have better reflectors than others. I'm thinking of just purchasing a par meter.


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

PAR is just a reference point for me. I have stargrass, limnophilia aromatica, and a bunch of other plants growing just fine under PAR 12. If they don't, i can always switch to a higher or lower wattage bulb for < $5. That's a lot of bulbs for the $300+ PAR meter that you will use 2 times and that will not give the 'correct' results.

If the plants grow well, a number is just a number.

v3


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

IMO you're making this too complicated lol

You can certainly go invest in a PAR meter if you want to play with it, but you honestly don't need it.

Are you CURRENTLY having any issues with your tank/plants?

You said you had a Ludwigia meltdown. How are they doing now? (Ludwigia happens to hate me, personally... I gave up on them. I suspect they don't like my lean water columns, but could be any number of different factors, really) You'll always have plant species that do better or worse for you than for other people with seemingly comparable setups... it's just the nature of the beast.

As long as you aren't having any major issues right now, I'd leave well enough alone.

If you run into algae problems, then you can start experimenting to see what helps; there's usually lots of options to try and see what works best, between shortening photoperiods, raising fixtures up off tanks, adjusting dosing, adding Excel and/or algae eaters, etc etc etc

Intial plant dieoffs and algae blooms are pretty much par for the course with new tanks (and since you just did a major substrate replacement, I'd consider your setup "new."). It takes a while for a plants to adjust to new settings and tanks to achieve stability.

Patience is really the MOST important "ingredient" with planted tanks, IMHO. :fish:


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## jem_xxiii (Apr 5, 2013)

lauraleellbp said:


> IMO you're making this too complicated lol
> 
> If you run into algae problems, then you can start experimenting to see what helps; there's usually lots of options to try and see what works best, between shortening photoperiods, raising fixtures up off tanks, adjusting dosing, adding Excel and/or algae eaters, etc etc etc
> 
> Intial plant dieoffs and algae blooms are pretty much par for the course with new tanks (and since you just did a major substrate replacement, I'd consider your setup "new."). It takes a while for a plants to adjust to new settings and tanks to achieve stability.


yep, exactly how i feel. not everyones tanks are going to respond in the same way, if the tank is doing fine then follow the old saying "if it aint broke, then dont fix it." once you notice a problem is when you need to start seeing what can be adjusted and so forth.


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## Aurie (Jun 3, 2013)

My first tank was a 10 gallon with the 2 cfl hoods. I never dosed anything nor had fancy substrate. I had plain old river rock gravel. My plants did just fine. I know this is a broad statement, but if the OP goes down to just 1 light, then they'll only have half a lit tank. The other half will be completely dark. The way the bulbs are mounted UP INTO the hood, the light doesn't go side to side very well, mostly front to back so 2 bulbs would be needed. I used the 13w "now smaller than ever" sylvania bulbs from Lowes .. 

I occasionally got spot algae but that's because I didn't' dose anything.

Sorry I can't find a picture of the bottom of this hood, but this is the top of the one I refer to...


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## kidgrave (Feb 4, 2014)

lauraleellbp said:


> IMO you're making this too complicated lol
> 
> You can certainly go invest in a PAR meter if you want to play with it, but you honestly don't need it.
> 
> ...


I'm not trying to make this complicated. I understand that it's good to experiment a bit to see what works and what doesn't, however, two months from now, I will be gone to Australia for a whole month, so I want to remain with a low-tech setup because I don't want to have to ask my sister to dose CO2 into my tank. At the moment, I am dosing CO2 in liquid form Yes, my Ludwigia at first did melt a bit. After I researched about the Ludwigia meltdown, I read that it's usually a bad thing to plant Ludwigia in a freshly dirted tank that hasn't been stable yet. I was worried about my 2x13 Watt CFLs being too much light and wanted to avoid algae issues. My Ludwigia are growing too fast now. The old leaves still look melted, but the new leaves are looking super healthy. My plant is growing about a little leaf per day. Other than that, I haven't seen any growth on my Java Fern. However, my Tropica Java Fern is growing quite a bit, and my Anubia Nana Petite is growing really fast.


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## kidgrave (Feb 4, 2014)

Aurie said:


> My first tank was a 10 gallon with the 2 cfl hoods. I never dosed anything nor had fancy substrate. I had plain old river rock gravel. My plants did just fine. I know this is a broad statement, but if the OP goes down to just 1 light, then they'll only have half a lit tank. The other half will be completely dark. The way the bulbs are mounted UP INTO the hood, the light doesn't go side to side very well, mostly front to back so 2 bulbs would be needed. I used the 13w "now smaller than ever" sylvania bulbs from Lowes ..
> 
> I occasionally got spot algae but that's because I didn't' dose anything.
> 
> Sorry I can't find a picture of the bottom of this hood, but this is the top of the one I refer to...


Thank you for your reply. Yes, I can't really go down to 1 light because then that would make the other half of my tank look bad. I am currently 2x13 watt "now smaller than ever," and they are the Phillips brand, which I bought at The Home Depot. For how long were you keeping your lights on? I'm only keeping my lights on for 7 hours a day.


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## kidgrave (Feb 4, 2014)

OVT said:


> PAR is just a reference point for me. I have stargrass, limnophilia aromatica, and a bunch of other plants growing just fine under PAR 12. If they don't, i can always switch to a higher or lower wattage bulb for < $5. That's a lot of bulbs for the $300+ PAR meter that you will use 2 times and that will not give the 'correct' results.
> 
> If the plants grow well, a number is just a number.
> 
> v3


I agree with you. However, I find a PAR meter useful besides growing aquatic plants. What are your experiences with CFL bulbs?


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

kidgrave said:


> What are your experiences with CFL bulbs?


http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?p=3346202

Long thread, but lots of pictures. Switching from 10g to 30g, both with suspended CFL.

A ~6g with CFL:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?p=5587305

v3


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## shawnwaldon (Dec 5, 2013)

kidgrave said:


> When you had 2x20 Watt bulbs, what type of fixture were you using for your lights, and what type of plants were you growing?



I was using the standard hood that comes with the tank that has the lights in horizontally. I was growing crypt, java fern, ludwigia for the most part. The ludwigia grew like mad and the crypt averaged a new leaf around 6 - 10 days. 
The java fern was regularly sprouting out baby leafs. My system was no co2 and dosing excell occasionally, usually twice a week. I did have a inter filter w/ spray bar rated at 120gph so it was a good amount of flow in the tank.


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## kidgrave (Feb 4, 2014)

shawnwaldon said:


> I was using the standard hood that comes with the tank that has the lights in horizontally. I was growing crypt, java fern, ludwigia for the most part. The ludwigia grew like mad and the crypt averaged a new leaf around 6 - 10 days.
> The java fern was regularly sprouting out baby leafs. My system was no co2 and dosing excell occasionally, usually twice a week. I did have a inter filter w/ spray bar rated at 120gph so it was a good amount of flow in the tank.


Thanks for your reply. Your tank looks nice. Keep up the good work.


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## shawnwaldon (Dec 5, 2013)

Thank you, unfortunately that tank is not around anymore, but on the bright side I am setting up a 40B paludarium.


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

If the CFL bulbs are mounted horrizontally they only have about half of normal PAR in the virticle position. Two would be the appropriate number in a hood which uses them horrizontally. @ 13W


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## shawnwaldon (Dec 5, 2013)

I was using two 20w cfl in the tank in that picture. I forgot to mention that.


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## Django (Jun 13, 2012)

I agree that you get different amounts of light using different fixtures and different bulb orientations - vertical is more efficient, white plastic is not as efficient as clamp-on aluminum reflectors. I think 2 13W CFLs could work if the fixture can be elevated to adjust to less intense light if necessary.

I am using 2 10W CFLs in aluminum dome-shaped "brooder" clamp-on fixtures. I had them elevated to ~6" and I thought the plants were growing too fast so I put them up to ~12" off the tank top. Now, I'm thinking that's too high - hard to guage what the plants are doing if anything. I have had one small spot of some kind of green filamentous algae on the glass, but that's it. There is cap of black sand and a black background to block the sunlight behind the tank.

Here's a pic:


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## monkey4life (Oct 31, 2013)

2 13 watt 6500k, gravel and 8 months of broken down waste. Until recently i havnt had any issues, now I'm starting to see some deficiencies (mostly micro)


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