# Blue Rams: 1m/2f Harem or 3f?



## CatFishStryk (Sep 3, 2013)

Blue rams are not a harem fish. They should be kept as 1:1 ratios. Any outsiders (ie. extra male OR female) often causes problems and the outsider is often harassed after the rams pair off.


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## DrewWoodside (Apr 1, 2008)

CatFishStryk said:


> Blue rams are not a harem fish. They should be kept as 1:1 ratios. Any outsiders (ie. extra male OR female) often causes problems and the outsider is often harassed after the rams pair off.


So if there were 3 females, one of them would likely be stressed soon?


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## yunite (Aug 10, 2013)

From our experience, we find that the number of males and females doesn't have a direct relation with aggression. In regards to aggression, we find the most important factor to be space.

German Blue Rams are generally peaceful and from our experience pairs would have no issue coexisting with lone blue rams peacefully given enough space for each of them to claim as their own territories (pairs act as one unit and tend to same territory).

Given enough space, they may still at times come into territory dispute, but they are more bark than bite and would rarely cause harm to each other. You may see two blue rams flashing at each other for a bit and then each goes back to their own territory.

From our experience, extreme aggression only happens when they have very limited space and it may worsen if they are tending to eggs, and they are capable of hurting and killing other blue rams under such circumstances. With enough space though, it's not likely to have an aggression issue, especially in a heavily planted tank.

German Blue Rams form monogamous pairs and we'd recommend 2-3 bonded pairs for a 33 gallon tank, or if you get 4-6 blue rams, you may have 1-2 pairs formed from them.


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## Subtletanks91 (May 29, 2013)

What catfish is trying to say is that if your going to be keeping three females. You need to keep three males. There monogamous fish and usually always only have one life partner. Chances are if you bought them from a store and there were pairs in the tank already, the pairs were broken, wich happens alot when people buy rams because they don't know there not harem fish or even colony fish, there just like emperor penguins (correct me if I'm wrong on the species of penguin)


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## yunite (Aug 10, 2013)

I'd like to note that having 3 females and 3 males doesn't automatically make them bonded pairs. It's like they have to find the right chemistry in order to form breeding pairs. If you get 3 females and 3 males, you may have anywhere from 0 to 3 pairs formed, and it'll be up to mother nature.


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## DrewWoodside (Apr 1, 2008)

yunite said:


> I'd like to note that having 3 females and 3 males doesn't automatically make them bonded pairs. It's like they have to find the right chemistry in order to form breeding pairs. If you get 3 females and 3 males, you may have anywhere from 0 to 3 pairs formed, and it'll be up to mother nature.


The footprint of this tank is fairly square, and the way the rockscape is arranged. There's one very secure territory, then there's a large open space. I'm thinking I'll probably need to go with a single pair. But might consider a second.. Leaning towards one though!


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## Subtletanks91 (May 29, 2013)

+1 yunite I did forget to mention that


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

yunite said:


> I'd like to note that having 3 females and 3 males doesn't automatically make them bonded pairs. It's like they have to find the right chemistry in order to form breeding pairs.


I just took my last 3 pairs into my LFS. I bagged them AS pairs (all three have already spawned once) so there would be no confusion. Hopefully they'll manage to sell them as pairs.


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## Subtletanks91 (May 29, 2013)

Unfortunately most fish stores don't know they form pairs and break the pairs up. At least in the Bay Area they do


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## tattooedfool83 (Mar 15, 2013)

So 3 pairs for a 33 then in reality you could put one pair in a 10 gallon?


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## Subtletanks91 (May 29, 2013)

You can but I wouldn't suggest putting anything else in the tank. At least with a 33 gallon you have more volume to claim territory, in a ten gallon it's such a small volume that the entire tank would be there territory.


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## ThatGuyWithTheFish (Apr 29, 2012)

No, a pair for ea h 15-20 gallons is more realistic.


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## tattooedfool83 (Mar 15, 2013)

And from what I've read at least 20 gallons for a pair, but 3 pairs for a 33 gallon and if they stick to there own territory then mathematically that would be 11 gallons per pair.


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## acitydweller (Dec 28, 2011)

+1 like fish dating 



yunite said:


> I'd like to note that having 3 females and 3 males doesn't automatically make them bonded pairs. It's like they have to find the right chemistry in order to form breeding pairs. If you get 3 females and 3 males, you may have anywhere from 0 to 3 pairs formed, and it'll be up to mother nature.


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## Subtletanks91 (May 29, 2013)

Lol fish speed dating to mte for life I like that. Only were playing matchmaker. What if number one two and three male don't like the females. Then your sol lollol.


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## shift (Jan 7, 2013)

I recently got 3 males and they seem to be getting along well


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## yunite (Aug 10, 2013)

tattooedfool83 said:


> And from what I've read at least 20 gallons for a pair, but 3 pairs for a 33 gallon and if they stick to there own territory then mathematically that would be 11 gallons per pair.


Yes, the more conservative approach is one pair per 20 gallon, which works great and is recommended for beginners and people who are not yet familiar with GBRs. 

From our experience we find one pair per 10 gallon to be a good balance where they have enough space to be happy and can still peacefully coexist with other pairs or lone blue rams.

One thing to note is that bonded pairs act as one unit and they tend to the same territory, so the space a bonded pair requires would be a little less than 2 unpaired blue rams, since each lone blue ram would be claiming its own territory.


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## yunite (Aug 10, 2013)

Subtletanks91 said:


> Lol fish speed dating to mte for life I like that. Only were playing matchmaker. What if number one two and three male don't like the females. Then your sol lollol.


Hahaha, yeah GBRs are really fascinating little creatures. We regularly try to identify and confirm pairs, and just recently we've observed this one beautiful female going around trying to "date" 3 different males and got rejected all 3 times. We were really feeling for her and wondered why?! since she was really good looking among her peers. It was like watching a story unfold, and finally she went up to one of the males that rejected her previously, stubbornly stuck to his side refusing to move away, and slowly but surely, the male finally accepted her! We (my dad and I) were literally high-fiving when we saw her finally being accepted~


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## Subtletanks91 (May 29, 2013)

It is amazing, alot of people don't realize what goes on in the fish world. Or why we do what we do in this hobby, its because we can literally learn about a whole new underwater world that most people don't see because there oblivious to everyday things and technology. Our ancestors understood the importance of watching nature unfold, but we scuffed it off. 

I love watching fish interact. It's simply amazing what goes on


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## FishTankExpert (Aug 31, 2013)

tattooedfool83 said:


> And from what I've read at least 20 gallons for a pair, but 3 pairs for a 33 gallon and if they stick to there own territory then mathematically that would be 11 gallons per pair.


Agreed.

As a side note, just make sure to keep an eye on your nitrite and ammonia levels.


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## Suzie Q (Jan 8, 2007)

Very informative thread. I just got 6 juvies. 2 with the pink female sides, and 1 that is supposed to be a male, and 3 unsexed. They are about 1/2 inch or so. I have them in a 10g for now. How soon/what size do they pair. I got them from a friend who is a breeder.


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