# Help with the condition my tank is in!!!! Also a journal of 29G dirted



## SajidS (Feb 17, 2014)

Long Post But please I need Help !

Set up a dirted tank with sand capping it and planted Dwarf hair grass and Dwarf baby tears.
*Tank = Glass 36x12x15 inches
*Lighting = 2x20w + 2x14w Regular CFL (I think its 2.2wpg)
*Substrate = Dirt from Farmhouse(i know they have not used any chemicals in that patch) Capped it with inert sand
*Plants - Dwarf Hair Grass, Dwarf Baby Tears, Ceratopteris Thalictroides, Limnophilia Aquatica (Dwarf), Lindernia Rotundifolia 'variegated', Myriophyllum Scabratum (Green).

#Did a search on the last one couldn't find it ... maybe you peaople can look into and say what plant it is images below!

Did dry start for a week and it really helped the hc but the hair grass was progressively browning.

Dry Start Images
1 Dwarf Baby Tears

















Not the best way to plant i know Should have done some research

2 Dwarf Hair grass

















Also not the best way to plant

Then the 2nd week my stem plants (which were supposed to come on the 3rd week) came in early so had to flood it.
After Flooding it 









































Its 3rd week now
1.Main problem is most of the plants are going brown including the hair grass but hc is really showing nice growth...wtf ... I thought that hc will be the most hard plant in the lot???

Browning of plants
Limnophilia Aquatica (cut the brown parts and planted the green ones once again)









Myriophyllum









Dwarf Hair Grass









Ceratopteris Shows nice growth at tips but lower leaves are a bit beaten sould i cut them off?










2.The whole tank has this white powdery deposits all over the walls leaves and equipment
















Also see difference between scrubbed off and left alone in image for ceratopteris

(Could It be because my water is hard or is it because i added small amount of crushed corals below the dirt before the set up.. i read somewhere that it was to balance out the water ph)did i mess up in this area ? please someone help me with a solution to this... really looks ugly !

3.My dealer gave me free plants from his aquarium .. he was about to throw them away but i took them from him .. What are these plant .. so i could do some research on them ..

Number 1

















Number 2

















Number 3
He sells it like this ↓ But research doesn't give me points about the plant

















And thank you PLease give me some solutions to the problems.... 1st tank newbie !
Will be adding co2 DIY in 3 days


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## ForensicFish (May 19, 2013)

This is tough to gauge, but I will attempt to help. 

First, all I see is a powerhead for water circulation. So all the dirt, dust and loose stuff from your soil and sand is still floating around your tank blocking your light and collecting all over your plants. 

Your dwarf hairgrass can be suffering from a few things. Was your hairgrass purchased grown emersed? If so, it might take a bit to get acclimated to being fully submerged. Funny thing about hairgrass is what it requires. It can be grown in lower light, but will need CO2 supplementation and fertilizers. Again, all the dirt floating around in your tank greatly reduces your light. I have never been a big fan of Myrio. It only seems to do well in a high light tank with ample CO2. I would also consider limnophilia a high light plant which is why it is probably struggling.

The white deposits on your glass could be excess calcium buildup from the crushed coral. People add small amounts of dolomite or coral to the their soil substrates to keep the pH from swinging to acidity (low). But it doesn't take a whole lot. Given your tap water parameters and the content of your soil, you may not have to add any buffering to keep your water stable. So the excess calcium and increase in pH could be harming your plants.

You mentioned your soil from a farm? Most people "mineralize" their soil soaking it in water and drying it out. They repeat this process multiple times until the soil becomes super soft, smells much better and becomes almost like a silt. They also sift the soil to remove any large stones, sticks or other large organic masses. I am not sure you did this or not. And depending on your where you got it from, you could have introduced chemicals or excess or something that is burning your plants such as excess ammonia. 

You need to start doing large water changes daily (50 -75%) daily to clear up your water and to remove excess nutrients or harmful chemicals. You might have to potentially start all over depending on how your mixed your crushed coral into your substrate. If you notice improvements by doing large water changes, you need to trim all the dead/dying parts off your plants and let them regrow. Or pull them all out, trim off all the dead/dying parts and place them in a bucket while you figure out your next plan.

It would help if you gave us some water measurements such as pH, nitrate levels, nitrite levels and ammonia levels. 

Again, this is just my opinion based on what you gave us through photos and text. 

Good Luck.


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## SajidS (Feb 17, 2014)

*Water changes help !*

Thanks for the insight brother or ma'am
Did a water change about 30% and all of the plants were showing better signs at the tips with new growth and lush greenness the next day, the lower parts still are covered by the deposits which is why i think they are turning brown...i dont know how to deal with them..

btw yes i did 2 days of mineralization of the soil i got, that is 2 times drying and soaking each day ... the soil did not smell at all but was nice and soft .. yes i sifted and removed wooden debris or anything which i didn't want in the tank ..
and the sand was washed like 7-8 times before i introduced it in...
water is crystal clear and been running the filter attached to the power head after the pic was taken so filtration is good.. so lighting is ok i think altho i dont know about myrio high light requirements... 
will post pictures of new growth... all in all just wanted to say lindernia and ceratopteris are my new fav plants for being hardy !!!!


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## ForensicFish (May 19, 2013)

any updates?


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## BulletToothBoris (Jan 17, 2013)

I can't get DHG to do anything but die. It NEEDS injected CO2.


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## SajidS (Feb 17, 2014)

Done with about 3 water changes in 5 days the calcium deposits are markedly reduced and seeing new growth will almost all the plants except the hair grass and the myrio ... added diy co2 system ats not fully functional right now but will be in about 4-6 hrs .. hope it really helps the hair grass ! 
no fish yet, maybe in about 2 weeks..... btw was really looking for fish species ... im not specific or something but want to know some species that are long bodied (snake like) and NON DIGGERS ( really important) ... and maybe uncommon ones ... 
Had a walking catfish ... ruined the earlier set up ..

i was homing in on Black Ghost Knife Fish ... really like the look of it but will do more research before i buy it ... if you guys have info plz help me out or recommend other species...


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

What is filtering this tank ?


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## SajidS (Feb 17, 2014)

*Update*


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## SajidS (Feb 17, 2014)

Can someone pls help me out with the unknown species .... the grassy looking and the stem plant... its not supposed to be black as it is in the pic but its all i have now ...but its turning green now slowly....


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## SajidS (Feb 17, 2014)

Raymond S. said:


> What is filtering this tank ?


i hope u have your answer ... but is that filter enough ? i mean I'll only be adding 2-3 pairs of fish at max ... that's all


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## adive (Oct 30, 2013)

Sajid, you are from India where the Walstad recommended MiracleGro products arent available so looks like you just got some garden soil which seemed ok and dumped into your tank? This unknown soil is a huge challenge!

You are brave to put soil into your tank - who knows what it contains. I would say be prepared to monitor the tank closely for the 1st 2 months or so.

I too started a walstad tank 7 weeks ago with a similar approach as there is no other option for the dirt right?

Walstad mentions that the first 2 months can be a bit tough i.e. requiring a lot of monitoring/water changing until the soil settles. I am in the 7th week and I have had my set of surprises but have been able to steer the ship fine so far. My swordtails also spawned a few days ago.

My amazons are doing fine. One of them also shed some of its old leaves and has given out lush green new one. Wisteria died and cabomba is doing soso.

My crypt is static - meaning neither going downhill not really growing. But it seems to be stable, has lost just 1 leaf in 7 weeks so I have good hopes.

You have planted a variety of plants which is good. Are you seeing some types doing better than others? Just go with those.

Also, I may have missed it but try adding some rooted & simple plants such as amazon swords/banana/ozelot sword/crypts. See how they do.

is your lighting enough? Like 1.5 WPG, 8 hours/day? do the plants get sunlight? tell us all the details. Also there needs to be some water current so avoid anaerobic pockets. Good luck. Keep us posted.


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## adive (Oct 30, 2013)

snake like fish: kuhli loach, dont know if its a digger though.

there are various other loached with longish bodies.

give rainbow fish a thought. most of their subtypes are peaceful and colorful.


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## ForensicFish (May 19, 2013)

In my opinion I do not think you should be focused on fish at this point. You need to make sure you have your tank dialed in. Meaning you are not getting your calcium deposits on the glass, your ammonia/nitrites/nitrates have stabilized with the latter of the two reading zero. You need to keep up on your weekly water changes. You also have to be careful with adding fish. I can almost bet your biological bacteria is not where it needs to be to successfully keep fish at this point.

Patience is of upmost importance in this hobby. Especially when it comes to fish. Take your time. Your tank isn't going anywhere.


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## SajidS (Feb 17, 2014)

adive .. its a relief to hear that I'm not the only from here who's used dirt in their tank... thanks for the info.. but with the kind of scape I'm looking for I'm good as far as plants are concerned .. ill probably be requiring a foreground grass type but that's only if dhg doesn't make it.... btw did u make a thread or a journal of the tank u were talking about ... place give a link will probably learn something...... and loaches dig brother Iv done the research on them
..
forensicfish .. I wont be adding fish until the tank is 2-3months old... this is just research.... and I see no new calcium deposits just the old ones which are stubbornly housed... rubbing them with a cleaner gets rid of them from the glass and bigger rocks but I see it on the hairgrass and some old myrio Leaves...
do you really think I will need a test kit... IV already reached my budget with the plants so its just wait and watch now...


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## ForensicFish (May 19, 2013)

You do not have to buy a test kit if you don't want to. I would just wait a bit while your tank balances out. I see no logic in buying fish in hopes that they will stay alive. Better to wait a bit to buy fish since you are already over budget. 

How long has your tank been up and running?


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## adive (Oct 30, 2013)

Wonder where the calcium/white dust came from. Is it from your inert capping sand? Have you used that sand in another tank & know that it doesnt throw dust? Or maybe seen it used in someone else's tank?

The cap should prevent stuff from the soil leeching into the water thats why I suspect the cap. Did you ever stir up the dirt that made the dust fly - like when uprooting plants? My cap has always kept my soil down - the result is crystal clear water.

I havent made a journal yet. I wanted to get some success before doing that. 5 days ago I added some liq ferts in the hope of helping my cabomba (these ferts work very nice on cabomba in my other tank) but that has given me cloudy water. Need to fix that now.

Great thing is I have just very little green algae covering some surfaces in the tank - other than that, algae hasnt touched it. Tank gets direct sunlight - its kind of under a tree with its leaves breaking the sunlight off & on. I have several pond snails in there who are helping I think. In my other tank there are no snails and there is green algae on the glass hence I concluded the pond snails must be helping IDK.

As the weeks go by my water changes seem to be reducing.

Would you say your plants are growing good? I dont know anything about loaches.

About the foreground grass type plants - I dont know, no experience with grass. All I want is simple requirement plants thriving in my tank and reducing my maintenance work when it becomes a nice natural system. My other tank is one such system where especially cabomba is doing really great! Grows 1.5 inch / week , no CO2, no Excel.

Why do you have a heater? I used on in Jan when it got cold and my tank is on a patio/balcony. But since it turned warmer I shut it off.

In the 1st 2 months Walstad recommends putting in floating plants to absorb extra nutrients.


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## adive (Oct 30, 2013)

make sure no deposits stay on plant leaves as that will hamper photosynthesis and therefore their growth.

one more thing: you need many more plants in there - as in 70% at least. i.e. when u look from the top, not more than 30% substrate should be visible. thats the recommended procedure.


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## SajidS (Feb 17, 2014)

I have no idea where the excess calcium came from... but i do remember reading somewhere that it does happen when u add crushed corals to the bottom ... they somehow manage to get dissolved in the water and spread out ... it could be wrong because i don't see any dirt coming up and the water remains clear all the time... whatever may had been the reason its not happening any more ... still working on removing the already formed deposits altho its hard to remove it from the myrio and dhg ... limnophilia is completely clean and growing really well considering the shape it was when i brought them home !
i would definitely say that all my plants are doing well except the hair grass !

i would really like seeing any pictures of your tank ... becouse i was almost about to get cobomba and later settled on limnophilia ... myrio ended up in there becouse the dealer had new stock and i really like the way they looked so picked a bunch...

ill proly remove the heater, it has no purpose now ... used it when i had fish in the winter... but will remove it now
few leaves of ceratopteris went floating and i did not remove them and now they have a complete root system so.. i wud say that i have a floating plant lol!


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## SajidS (Feb 17, 2014)

ForensicFish said:


> I would just wait a bit while your tank balances out.
> How long has your tank been up and running?


How would i know that my tank is balanced or not ..
its been 16 days since i set up the tank


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## ForensicFish (May 19, 2013)

SajidS said:


> How would i know that my tank is balanced or not ..
> its been 16 days since i set up the tank


Hence the need for a test kit. 

Or you can buy at bottle of good bacteria such as Stability from Seachem which will work immediately. Or buy a couple hardy fish and see how they do. But given how you said you were already at max budget, I didn't suggest buying anything previously. I know first hand Stability works exactly as it is supposed to. Have used it on both Reef and freshwater planted tanks when I didn't have the space to mature a new tank setup.


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## SajidS (Feb 17, 2014)

Btw is there a point in running filtration at night ? its a fishless tank and the co2 is connected with the filter power head .. i just switch off the power spike so lights and filter both turn off at night ... so there is just one huge bubble of co2 exiting the outlet rather than the filter running and breaking the bubble into minute ones !
Other thing is ..we have timed power cuts here... i usually switch on the lights at 2pm and switch it off at 5 and on at 6 then again switch it off at 12 for the night ... how does this effect the system?


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## ForensicFish (May 19, 2013)

Since it is fishless, there is less need to run your filtration. But given you said about your CO2 I would still run it to help circulate and dissolve your CO2. The lighting siesta period (due to power cut) shouldn't really have any effect.


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## SajidS (Feb 17, 2014)

Thnks do you have a journal on your tanks?
just curious ! and bored actually!


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## ForensicFish (May 19, 2013)

I currently do not. I am however in the process of putting one together. I just set up my current tank about a week ago. I do not have my Co2 system yet and my sump is not all the way set up. I am taking pictures of the process, but haven't posted anything.


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## adive (Oct 30, 2013)

SajidS said:


> Btw is there a point in running filtration at night ? its a fishless tank and the co2 is connected with the filter power head .. i just switch off the power spike so lights and filter both turn off at night ... so there is just one huge bubble of co2 exiting the outlet rather than the filter running and breaking the bubble into minute ones !
> Other thing is ..we have timed power cuts here... i usually switch on the lights at 2pm and switch it off at 5 and on at 6 then again switch it off at 12 for the night ... how does this effect the system?


Oh you have CO2? I thought you were trying a Walstad tank. You could have skipped the soil in that case and kept things much simpler. i think you are mixing too many methods: walstad dirting (that too with unknown soil which could potentially be really bad for fauna), not enough plants, CO2 injection. Pick 1 method and stick to it.

To see if your tank is stable you need a test kit or else wait another 10 days with hopes of more stability and introduce a fish but thats not a recommended way.


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## adive (Oct 30, 2013)

SajidS said:


> Btw is there a point in running filtration at night ? its a fishless tank and the co2 is connected with the filter power head .. i just switch off the power spike so lights and filter both turn off at night ... so there is just one huge bubble of co2 exiting the outlet rather than the filter running and breaking the bubble into minute ones !
> Other thing is ..we have timed power cuts here... i usually switch on the lights at 2pm and switch it off at 5 and on at 6 then again switch it off at 12 for the night ... how does this effect the system?


does the tank receive bright day light/sunlight when the lights are off before 2pm? if yes you could be at risk of algae because of prolonged photoperiod -> been there suffered that


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## adive (Oct 30, 2013)

SajidS said:


> I have no idea where the excess calcium came from... but i do remember reading somewhere that it does happen when u add crushed corals to the bottom ... they somehow manage to get dissolved in the water and spread out ... it could be wrong because i don't see any dirt coming up and the water remains clear all the time... whatever may had been the reason its not happening any more ... still working on removing the already formed deposits altho its hard to remove it from the myrio and dhg ... limnophilia is completely clean and growing really well considering the shape it was when i brought them home !
> i would definitely say that all my plants are doing well except the hair grass !
> 
> i would really like seeing any pictures of your tank ... becouse i was almost about to get cobomba and later settled on limnophilia ... myrio ended up in there becouse the dealer had new stock and i really like the way they looked so picked a bunch...
> ...



i have crushed coral that came in with my golden river sand and its given no issues. i have lush cabomba growth without CO2/Excel in that tank.


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## SajidS (Feb 17, 2014)

initially i was completely devoted towards walstad and really low tech .. later found out that Dwarf Hair grass needs co2 to even begin with so ended up with the diy which was very easy btw.... i don't think skipping dirt would have helped brother because i am not planning on adding fertilizers as such or any chemical for that matter (some insect in me says i want it all natural) 

the tank is indoor so no light from outside only the one which i provide... initially thought of placing it near a window as walstad recommends .. but saw algae the next day and my ordered plants were due for delivery the next week.... so had to change the location
BTW no algae currently in the tank

and again i really dont have an idea where the deposits came from... but thankfully can say that they get reduced with every water change .. so really hoping they dont come back !


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## ForensicFish (May 19, 2013)

My current high tech tank is dirted and I run CO2. No matter what type of tank you go with, CO2 will only be beneficial. But, adding CO2 is another variable you have to account for, so it can change parameters in a way.

Walstad is a "low tech" route that people go because they do not want the E.I. dosing headaches. E.I. dosing is great, but some people do not want that extra step. So the mineralized top soil or walstad method is their choice with the majority of their nutrients in the soil. 

SajidS, 

Everyone wants an immediate answer for their troubles. Us members can do everything in our power to speculate about what you should or should not do. Unfortunately the planted aquarium requires significant trial and error. The more you do it, the less you will error. But it takes time. Like adive said, I would plant heavier if you can. But I bet through the last week you learned a ton about your tank, more than anyone here could have told you possibly.


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## SajidS (Feb 17, 2014)

ForensicFish said:


> But I bet through the last week you learned a ton about your tank, more than anyone here could have told you possibly.


So true, experience is the best teacher.:icon_excl

and i am working on getting new plants..:smile:


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## SajidS (Feb 17, 2014)

Trimmed the really long myrio... cut them from the bottom .. got rid of the brown leaves replanted the green 4inch long tips ..








Looking nice now

Also i found these in my lawn .. looked like quadrifolia but are not









rinsed them and planted in my tank
They were trapping air in their leaves should i remove them or should i keep them?









has this shimmering effect to it.. whi i dont like they seem unrealistic.. plastic..y


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## SajidS (Feb 17, 2014)

Also this is how my co2 is being injected ...
Is this amount enough ? or should i add another 2L bottle of the mix?









Diff Angle


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## ChadRamsey (Nov 3, 2011)

it hard to tell if that "is enough" by looking at it.

there are 2 ways to tell if your getting enough co2:

1-by your fishes behavior 
2-a drop checker

though using a powerhead is sometimes ok for co2 distribution. It is not always efficient, nor the best option.

research a co2 reactor. you can make one pretty cheap and they are darn near 100% efficient.

good luck


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## ForensicFish (May 19, 2013)

Those plants you found in your yard won't last long submerged in your tank. Remove them.


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## adive (Oct 30, 2013)

In my experience, planted tanks will start getting established after 4-5 weeks. So Sajid, just have patience, you are just a few weeks away.

Yeah, well guess dirting + CO2 can be mixed if you have certain expectations from the tank (carpeting, faster growth, etc), why not.


Forensic,

I have researched DIY & pressurized CO2, liquid carbon and CO2 tabs (one LFS highly recommend them and I have seen them use them, from a company called Ocean Free). I keep holding myself back from starting on any one of those - just my personal preference as I dont want one more big factor to balance, its just not possible to devote that much time to it. I am not saying some of my plants are doing their best in my non-walstad tank (i have 2 tanks). Cabomba and j moss are doing good, followed by j fern, so I am kind of happy. I recently started trimming and propagating cuttings. 

Amazon and crypt are stable in my walstad.


My walstad is 7 weeks old and I can feel its much more stable. The last thing I fought was these gray worms that kept attacking my fish which was horrible but I managed to get rid of them with no fish deaths luckily within a week and now I am more confident about the stability of my tank. 10 days ago I just didnt have confidence in that tank. My point is, it took 7 weeks.


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## SajidS (Feb 17, 2014)

Wow i found snails in my tank

Good or bad?











And also all this gunk on almost all the leaves and hardscape


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## SajidS (Feb 17, 2014)

ALGAE !!!


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