# List of equipment i would need?



## Bowser (Feb 19, 2011)

Hi, i was wondering what i was need to set up a new low tech planted tank aquarium that is 75 gallons. I want something REALLY simple like a carpet of "grass" on the bottom of my tank, and some taller plants in the back and sides of my tank. something like this: http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/1739/img0686highsharpnesscleqn6.jpg

I'm a complete newbie when it comes to planted tanks and would like some help.

I currently have an empty 75 gallon tank with nothing in it so that's why i want to try making this one planted. but i'd want to keep the tank as cheap as possible. thanks for reading!


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I'm going to answer the questions you PM'd me here so it's easier to refer back to. :biggrin:

The carpet in my 90gal is Lilaeopsis mauritiana. What is in that picture is 15 pots, and I spent about $50 on it. You can certainly buy fewer pots and wait for it to spread, as it will start sending off runners once it acclimates to the tank. You do have to wait a bit for that to happen, though, and the old growth will slowly die off (it's grown emersed at the nursery, so those leaves will die and be replaced by shorter leaves that are slightly different in shape). IME it is pretty easy to manage/keep contained if you don't want it all over.

My 90gal is set up with the following equipment:

Filters- Rena XP3 and XP4 You could certainly use a different filtration system if you want. HOB filters can work well- just keep in mind you want lots of flow in the tank and you'll need lots of mechanical filtration, since planted tanks produce tons of debris in comparison with nonplanted tanks.

Heater- 300 watt Hydor ETH inline Again, any substitution you like. I just like as much equipment out of the tank as possible.

Substrate - 1 bag of Miracle Gro Organic Choice potting soil capped with a mix of Flourite black and Colorquartz (CQ unfortunately is no longer on the market, I hear there are some similar products though...)

Lighting - 4x54 watt Solar T5HO from www.catalinaaquarium.com I run only 2x54 watts at a time and it is still quite a bit of light. You can certainly DIY your own fixture- I would recommend getting 3x 48" T5NO tubes (check out lighting designed to go under kitchen cabinets) and space those a few inches apart if you've got a canopy over your tank you can attach them to.

Lighting is probably your biggest challenge since you said you don't want to run CO2 on your tank. I know the options out there are overwhelming. Just keep asking questions, and spend some time reading threads int he lighting forum, and eventually it will all start making sense... Just keep in mind that if you don't want to have to run CO2, you need to be careful not to put too MUCH light over your tank... just enough to support low light plants.


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## Bowser (Feb 19, 2011)

Would fish help with the CO2 problem with the lighting?
I plan on cycling the tank so i can put fish in the tank too.
If i plan on keeping the light on for most of the day, would hanging the light higher help with that?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Bowser said:


> Would fish help with the CO2 problem with the lighting?


Only so much. It's very easy to trigger plants to grow so quickly that you could not stock a tank high enough to produce enough CO2 through respiration... which is why you need to be careful with the light level, since that is what controls how quickly plants grow.



> If i plan on keeping the light on for most of the day, would hanging the light higher help with that?


Yes, that would be another solution if you want to go with a T5HO fixture like mine.


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## Bowser (Feb 19, 2011)

is there a way i can calculate how far i should hang my light if i want to keep the light on for around 10-12 hours a day?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

What light fixture are you planning on getting?


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## Bowser (Feb 19, 2011)

I might just go out and buy some hoods at home depot or something for a little bit cheaper. 

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

would this work?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

You'd need 2 of those (4 bulbs total) and you'd then want them placed directly on top of the tank. But it could work. T8s are much less efficient than T5HOs or T5s, so that's the reason you'd need more.


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## pomby27 (Jan 27, 2004)

have you considered starting on a smaller size?


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## astrosag (Sep 3, 2010)

laura, are you saying that Lilaeopsis mauritiana can be maintained at low light sans CO2?

All I've come across from my research is that nearly all nice carpet species (Glosso, grasses, Riccia, HC, etc.) require high-light and CO2. Its pretty much left me with a moss carpet since CO2, for the time being, is not an option for me. 

If Lilaeopsis mauritiana can be maintained even half was well as it looks in picture the OP cites with low light and no CO2, I'll get it!


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## Bowser (Feb 19, 2011)

pomby: The reason i'm starting with a 75 gallon tank is because i have one just sitting around empty right now. i know it would be easier to start with a smaller tank but i want to fill this one up before i buy a new fish tank.

astro: the carpet of her tank looks great imo. 
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj72/lauraleellbp/IMG_4886.jpg
here's a picture of her tank.

So, the lower the T# the less efficient they are?
would having one of these work also? http://www.bigalsonline.com/Dual-Lamp-T5HO-Light-Fixtures.html?green=20331528858&tc=default

how long would i keep the lights on if i wanted to carpet the floor with some Lilaeopsis mauritiana if i used the shop lights from before, considering i'm putting them on top of some glass lids, and there is all of the water that i have in the tank?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

astrosag said:


> laura, are you saying that Lilaeopsis mauritiana can be maintained at low light sans CO2?
> 
> All I've come across from my research is that nearly all nice carpet species (Glosso, grasses, Riccia, HC, etc.) require high-light and CO2. Its pretty much left me with a moss carpet since CO2, for the time being, is not an option for me.
> 
> If Lilaeopsis mauritiana can be maintained even half was well as it looks in picture the OP cites with low light and no CO2, I'll get it!


Yes, that's absolutely what I'm saying. L. mauritiana is the only Lilaeopsis species I've found so far to do well without CO2, but it's done extremely well in my 29gal, which has been set up for about a year and a half now:









Other plants that can carpet under these same conditions include Marselia minuta, Dwarf Sagittaria, and Helanthium (Echinodorus) tenellus.



Bowser said:


> So, the lower the T# the less efficient they are?
> would having one of these work also? http://www.bigalsonline.com/Dual-Lamp-T5HO-Light-Fixtures.html?green=20331528858&tc=default


Yes. Not solely because the bulbs are smaller, though- the smaller diameter bulbs are the newer technology and so the ballasts that go with them are also upgraded and more efficient.

You could work with that T5HO fixture, but it won't give you the best back-to-front light coverage over an 18" deep tank. Ideally, you'll want a few inches between the bulbs to spread the light more across the tank. That's one reason I went with a 4x54 fixture, the bulbs are staggered inside so more spaced apart.



> how long would i keep the lights on if i wanted to carpet the floor with some Lilaeopsis mauritiana if i used the shop lights from before, considering i'm putting them on top of some glass lids, and there is all of the water that i have in the tank?


You'll have to experiement with it. 8-10 hours a day is where I'd start, and see what works.

If it were my tank, and I wanted to buy a ready made fixture rather than DIY some T5NO on my own, I'd probably go with 2 of these (the 48" versions): http://www.bigalsonline.com/Fish_Li...eries-Double-Linear-Strip-Lights.html?tc=fish


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## zenche (Feb 9, 2011)

Hi Laura - might i ask where you got your Lilaeopsis mauritiana? also, for a 18"x24" footprint, how many pots would you recommend I get? (i'm not patient enuogh to wait for it to spread, rather fill it up like you did).

thanks much!


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## astrosag (Sep 3, 2010)

Thats great to hear!

Like I said, I was only aware of mosses for low light, hardy (read no CO2) carpet plants. This is great news! 

I'll be stocking 

Java moss
Xmass moss
Flame moss 
and
l. mauritiana!

I plan on seeing how the mosses develop and then I'll probably stick to just one. Laura, out of the few carpet low light plants you listed, would you say l. mauritiana is the best considering appearance, ease of care and ability to control spreading? 

Thanks!


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

zenche said:


> Hi Laura - might i ask where you got your Lilaeopsis mauritiana? also, for a 18"x24" footprint, how many pots would you recommend I get? (i'm not patient enuogh to wait for it to spread, rather fill it up like you did).
> 
> thanks much!


I got mine from www.sweetaquatics.com. IDK why but for some reason that's one of the only places I've found it.

I'd guess you'd need about 7 or 8 pots?



astrosag said:


> Laura, out of the few carpet low light plants you listed, would you say l. mauritiana is the best considering appearance, ease of care and ability to control spreading?
> 
> Thanks!


IDK about "the best," but it's one that will form a pretty thick carpet and the roots aren't terribly deep so it's pretty easy to remove a runner that may head in a different direction, in comparison to - say - chain sword roots, which are usually pretty extensive.

I do really like Lilaeopsis in comparison with Eleocharis species, since you don't need to "mow" them to keep them short.


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## astrosag (Sep 3, 2010)

Great, thanks!

I have Eco-Complete. If I plan to grow L. mauritiana, how should I go about planting it. With my original setup of mosses only, nutrient rich substrate wasn't very necessary. But now that you've convinced me with L. mauritiana, I'm assuming its necessary.

I have a 20G and 20 lbs of Eco Complete - should I just stick with that or use some sort of inert substrate too to add substrate depth, etc.?

Thanks for your help laura!


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

You'll want 2-3 inches of substrate. If you need to "beef" yours up some, I'd consider getting a small bag of Miracle Gro Organic Choice and laying down an inch or so under your Eco. This would be a very cheap way to give your substrate a good nutrient boost.

I pull mine out of the pots and carefully go about separating the rock wool from all the roots. It will come out in clumps and long chains. I break the chains with my fingernails, and plant it all in little clumps. I grab the roots gently with some tweezers and pull it down into the substrate.

I've found it very difficult to plant chains unless you break them all apart first- when you're planting one end the other end tends to pull up, otherwise.


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## Bowser (Feb 19, 2011)

Okay, sorry for back tracking but how much of a mix between miracle gro and flourite black should i use? what ratio would be best?
i wouldn't need the colorquartz would i?


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## astrosag (Sep 3, 2010)

Ok great. Now would is there the need for DSM or do u just plant and fill here?

ALso, is there a common name for this grass (I must have missed it).


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

1-2" of Miracle Gro (one of the big bags should be more than enough) topped with 1-2" of Flourite for a total depth of 2-3"

You don't need to mix the Flourite with anything (mine was what I had on hand and had done previously to defray the cost of just Flourite). There's a substrate calculator at the top of the forum under "articles" I think, you should be able to use this to figure out how many bags of Flourite you'll need.

Be sure to rinse Flourite REALLY REALLY well before use. I personally take mine outside in buckets and blast a garden hose in there till the water finally runs off clear. Only trick is getting the water pressure just right; enough to stirr the Flourite up off the bottom but not so much you blast it out of the bucket too LOL


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

astrosag said:


> Ok great. Now would is there the need for DSM or do u just plant and fill here?


I've never done the dry start method myself, but I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work if you want to do that.


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## astrosag (Sep 3, 2010)

Fortunately for me, Eco-Complete recommends not rising it 

Ok Laura, I appreciate your help. I think I'm ready to get L. mauritiana. Just gotta introduce it somewhere in my planned layout. 

Thanks again!


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

You'll want to start off with the Flourite as a cap for the Miracle gro, since it takes a while for the Miracle Gro to get all waterlogged and otherwise it would float. Here's what the layers look like:










When I used the Miracle Gro in my 46gal I edged the walls of the tank with Flourite first then poured all the Miracle Gro in the middle and then capped again with Flourite, so you can't see the layers through the tank walls. I didn't bother doing that in the 90gal.

I kinda like the look of it all mixed together (I think it's very natural) so next time I do a tank with it, I may wait a few days to let it soak, and then mix it all together before I plant. You can see what it looks like pulled to the surface in this shot:










I bet the Miracle Gro would look really nice mixed in with Flourite dark rather than Flourite black, too- since both are that nice deep brown.


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## zenche (Feb 9, 2011)

thanks Laura! lemme know if you're selling any of your Lilaeopsis mauritiana 

astro - i used about 1/3 of a big bag of the miracle gro organix potting mix Laura mentions, and it's like 2-3" deep on my 56G column (18"x30" footprint).


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## astrosag (Sep 3, 2010)

Great pics.

Laura I'm assuming Miracle Grow + Eco-Complete would be difficult to pull off on slopes no?

I think what I'll go with is a moss carpet on my mountainous region, a small flat field at the bottom of L. mauritiana and then one corner with a small piece of driftwood and some plant that provides cover for a couple GBRs but also doesn't distort the entire mountain/field theme. Any ideas?

Thanks for all your help Laura!


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## astrosag (Sep 3, 2010)

zenche said:


> thanks Laura! lemme know if you're selling any of your Lilaeopsis mauritiana
> 
> astro - i used about 1/3 of a big bag of the miracle gro organix potting mix Laura mentions, and it's like 2-3" deep on my 56G column (18"x30" footprint).


Oh wow..ok great. So my 20lb bag of eco-complete with some miracle grow should be plenty! I think I will leave most of my eco-complete to form the mountainous regions of my tank to hold the rocks in place and on the flat regions use this eco-complete + miracle grow combo.

Now just to clear, you put a layer of miracle grow down and top it off with some substrate to avoid the miracle grow from floating up?


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## zenche (Feb 9, 2011)

correct!


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I think creating mounds & slopes is just about as easy (or difficult, as the case may be...) with a Miracle Gro underlayer as with any other substrate.

You'll have to use rocks or wood to hold any height in a tank over a long period of time, no matter what substrate you use.


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## zenche (Feb 9, 2011)

a trick i've learned from the interwebs - get some pantyhose, fill it up with gravel or whatever, and then put your substrate on top, then put your rocks on top of that, to create mountains that are taller, etc. 

my fave mountainscape is here - i'm gonna try to do something similar. 

http://www.aquascapingworld.com/forum/aspiring-aquascapers/4224-new-scape-dry-start.html


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## astrosag (Sep 3, 2010)

Thanks guys. Zenche that makes sense as it lets the rocks settle into gravel. The substrate acts like a bonding agent of sorts. I'll have to try that out!


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## astrosag (Sep 3, 2010)

By the way, zench, that is an incredible tank! As long as I didn't fill that tank up (which would then require Co2 and so and so on), I think I could do that! 

I'm going to stick to a moss carpet and this beautiful grass.


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## zenche (Feb 9, 2011)

that is my plan too. i dont want to have to deal with [email protected] either. but yea..man i love that tank! 

but i'm confused...why would filling the tank up (assuming you meant water?) then require Co2?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Emersed plants are able to pull CO2 from the air, which has a much higher concentration available than water. Once you fill a tank, it can cause plants to die back as they adjust, especially if you don't inject CO2.


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## zenche (Feb 9, 2011)

ah - thanks Laura - but the L. mauritiana will adjust and eventually thrive being submersed still, w/o having to add Co2, no?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Correct.


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## zenche (Feb 9, 2011)

thank you kindly


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## astrosag (Sep 3, 2010)

Laura, is there a process for putting the miracle grow in? Do you need to rinse or anything?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

astrosag said:


> Laura, is there a process for putting the miracle grow in? Do you need to rinse or anything?


Not really... once you get it, you'll see you can't really rinse it. It's mostly wood and peat.

I used a quart plastic container to scoop it out of the bag to control placement & depth a little better.

I do recommend getting it damp once you get it into the tank, this helps keep it in place while you add the cap on top.

Fill the tank really carefully- use a big bowl or plate to slowly pour water into so you don't disturb the layers.

Then I used a big net to skim all the floating stuff off the top. I think I skimmed it a few times the first day, and once the following morning, but haven't had any floating stuff since then.


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## astrosag (Sep 3, 2010)

Thanks Laura. Yea I figured rinsing wasn't an option but perhaps letting it sit in some solution or so may have been. Miracle Gro Organic Choice Potting Mix it is!


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## astrosag (Sep 3, 2010)

Laura, is there a difference between potting soil and potting mix. 

All I can find is Miracle Gro Organic Choice Potting Mix.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

No- that's what I used.

I think there's also an Organic Choice Garden Soil, which would work too- just I'm guessing the potting mix is probably better for our purposes?


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## astrosag (Sep 3, 2010)

From what i read on the bag it seems so. Well, seeing that you have had this stuff in your tank for a while with success, and since I wont be using too much, I don't see any problem in it 

Thanks.


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## zenche (Feb 9, 2011)

yea, most of the folks here are using the potting mix (orange bag vs green).

when i got mine from the home depot a couple days ago, had to go outside to their garden storage and it was on a shelf 25 ft up in the air  had to get them to lift the pallet down. kinda felt bad


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## Bowser (Feb 19, 2011)

So i looked outside in my garage today, and i found that my dad has some potting soil, and i was wondering how do i know if it is safe for me to use in my fish tank?


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## zenche (Feb 9, 2011)

ordered 10 pots  shipping from ohio to chicago, should only take 2 days with USPS priority. can't wait to get them here next week!


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Bowser said:


> So i looked outside in my garage today, and i found that my dad has some potting soil, and i was wondering how do i know if it is safe for me to use in my fish tank?


I personally wouldn't risk it, as "regular" potting soil tends to have lots of additives that can wreak havoc on water parameters in a tank.

You could test it by putting some in a bucket with water and testing the water parameters daily for a week or two (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, kH, and gH) and comparing that to your tap water parameters, and if it all seems to be OK, then "testing" it with some sacrificial snails or ghost shrimp for another week or two after that...

[Personally, for $10, I'd go with the bag of Miracle Gro Organic Choice that we know is safe.]


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## Bowser (Feb 19, 2011)

So, I've decided to calculate how much money i would have to spend before i actually spend it. and decided i'll just turn my 40breeder tank into a planted tank instead of making my 75 gallon tank one, to save some money hopefully

so for 
Substrate: i'm going to go with Eco Complete. $20.00 a bag * 4 = $80
Lighting: Buying two of these http://www.bigalsonline.com/Fish_Li...eries-Double-Linear-Strip-Lights.html?tc=fish for 36 in. $57 ea X 2 = $114
Plants: 10 pots of Lilaeopsis Mauritiana = $45 including shipping
So in total i'd be spending $239 for just this.
do i need anything else?


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## zenche (Feb 9, 2011)

do you really need 80lbs of Eco Complete for a 40G tank?


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## astrosag (Sep 3, 2010)

4 Bags seems a bit much. However, if you're doing any sort of mountainscape or looking to elevate parts or all of the tank, then you could easily go through 4 bags imo.

If its a typical flat scape aquarium, I don't think you need 4 bags. With my mountainscape, I went through two bags of Eco-Complete....in hindsight, I probably should have used something cheaper on the bottom and top it off with eco complete. 

In the areas where I plan to plant this newly discovered (for me that is) grass, I did what Laura suggested...Miracle Gro Organic Choice and topped it with Eco-COmplete....but man, I can't touch that area...that potting mix really screws up your water if you disturb it! Crap everywhere!

Other than that, all seems A-ok. I'll upload pics for you guys since you helped so much!


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## Bowser (Feb 19, 2011)

Well, i checked out the calculator on this website and it said i would need 72 pounds of eco complete to cover the bottom with 2 inches of it. that's why i said i'd need 4 bags, seeing as how each bag is 20 pounds


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## zenche (Feb 9, 2011)

couldn't one use more of the potting mix vs eco-complete for establishing height?


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## Bowser (Feb 19, 2011)

i didn't want to have to deal with the water getting messed up if i disturb the water too much, which might happen since i'm very OCD when it comes to placement of things. I tend to re-arrange alot of things if it doesnt look appealing to me. it's a bad habit i know, but i can't help it =P


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## astrosag (Sep 3, 2010)

I would stick to the 1-2 inches prescribed by laura. Potting soil/mix can become anaerobic, which is very very bad for any tank. To avoid that, you shouldn't put more than 2-3 inches (I'd stick to 2" max) deep max.

Bowser, if thats what the calculator says, then I'd follow it. Remember, you can always return the unused bags! Big tanks get expensive fast. Imagine trying to do a large scape with hills or mountains...thats quite a bit of money on substrate alone!


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## zenche (Feb 9, 2011)

ah, thanks astrosag....crap, means i'll have to remove several inches of the potting mix then. might need more flourite afterall 

rocks get here wednesday, 25lbs of seiryu...omg omg omg i'm so anxious to get them


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## astrosag (Sep 3, 2010)

Wow, how much and where from?!

- The Seiryu that is!


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## zenche (Feb 9, 2011)

bought it from the SnS - from yaouch. $90 shipped via parcel post (since i wanted one big piece for a centerpiece 12+" tall and wouldn't fit in a priority box, along with others). hence my anxiety


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I think I spent about $125 just on substrate for my 90gal the first go round, and that was 1/2 Flouriite and 1/2 Colorquartz (cheap ceramic "filler" that isn't on the market any more).


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## astrosag (Sep 3, 2010)

Laura, I forgot to ask....in your low tank setup, do you dose any fertilizers or carbon supplements (Excel, etc.)?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Not on a regular basis.

I do use root tabs for larger rooted plants, and I'll occasionally run into an algae issue (usually if I let my photoperiod get too long or just don't keep up with pruning/general maintenance) and dose a few days of Excel, but that's usually only a time or two a year at most.

There are many plants that can't handle the lean tanks I run (stems especially), but it works for me and I just stick with the plants that DO work with this setup.


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## astrosag (Sep 3, 2010)

Right, makes sense.

I'll be keeping mostly moses and though I do understand that they will grow almost under any condition, I wanted to see if Excel helped them reach a fuller, perhaps even brighter, appearance.


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