# BBRR Club



## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

So far I've tried red rili x blue rili crosses by placing RR and BR in the same tank. I've wound up with red rilis with barely noticeable blue in the middle, blue rilis (no red), red rilis, and the occasional cherry. These have all interbred.

I've separated out 5 or so that have at least some blue in the middle, and now have 1 berried. It will be interesting to see the shrimplets and see how I proceed from here.

Does anyone else have BBRR or RR yet? Is everyone in the planning stages?

I know some people are setting up tanks.


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## PatriotP (Aug 13, 2013)

I would love those for my new tank :O I'm new to shrimp, 10g is in cycle right now, any good reads on how to work on getting these? Or is it out of a beginners grasp?


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## randyl (Feb 1, 2012)

I will start with my dream blue and do something silly to it. Will update what happens ;-)


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Going to cross RR x Dream?


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

PatriotP said:


> I would love those for my new tank :O I'm new to shrimp, 10g is in cycle right now, any good reads on how to work on getting these? Or is it out of a beginners grasp?


Not out of any beginner grasp. Basically the trick is to have red shell parts on a blue tissue body. In my experience the blue tissue gene tends to reduce or eliminate the red. Thus the trick to try to stabilize it. 

That's what this club is for. Trying new ideas, theories, etc to create a BBRR. No real recipe for it yet, so anybody can join our club and have a crack at it with their own shrimp. :icon_cool


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## PatriotP (Aug 13, 2013)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> Not out of any beginner grasp. Basically the trick is to have red shell parts on a blue tissue body. In my experience the blue tissue gene tends to reduce or eliminate the red. Thus the trick to try to stabilize it.
> 
> That's what this club is for. Trying new ideas, theories, etc to create a BBRR. No real recipe for it yet, so anybody can join our club and have a crack at it with their own shrimp. :icon_cool


That sounds awesome, Hopefully my tank will be ready in a couple more weeks, i have plants planted just waiting on some driftwood in the mail now then for the cycle to finish! May have to start of with some Red Rilis and get them settled in then start introducing some blues sounds like a fun project! Will be back when its time to get some shrimp! :icon_cool


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

I'm subscribed!  So, what do we do to start? Since I'm new to shrimp altogether, I admit I have a lot to learn. If I understand it correctly, rilis can occasionally pop up out of BVs? Of course, if I wait for that to happen, it may take quite a while. 

How do you suggest I begin, Soothing? I suppose I could start with a couple RR and a couple BR, then add some of my BV once they breed.

I do have some well-established planted jars I could use or I could possibly move my betta to the 10g, provided he doesn't try to eat the guppies. 

I'd be happy to trade *lots* of plants for breeding stock if anyone is interested, or I'll just wait until my budget is a little flush again to stock up.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

RR rarely pop out of BV, but *can* pop out of BR. 

Blue Rili have been bred to reduce/eliminate the red.

BV have a mutation that causes the red to fade away- usually around juvie age. You would be surprised how many sellers don't even know that. In fact, because the final coloration looks very much the same, people often assume they are, when in fact they have different genetics.

Now, having said that, you do see the occasional BVR (Blue Velvet Red). That's usually less than 1%. The red lasts until adulthood, but even then the BV mutation can still make it fade away given time.

This is why I personally chose not to use BV in the creation of BBRR. My own theory is while the first generation would probably not have the red fade (because the mutation is now split), by the 2nd generation and beyond the possibility of the mutation showing up again would be very frustrating. Just imagine you finally have nice BBRR and your stock randomly loses the red, while some keep it. It would take years to try to breed that out, and even then you may not be successful. (?)

---

However I suggest that people try their own theories about what they believe is best, and let us know your trials, and results. Both good and bad. IN this way, we can continue to learn more. 

Right now Rachel (MsJinkzd) has a sale on RR for $2 each. She's a member of TPT, has an excellent reputation and it's a good price.

I over sold on my mixed rilis and am now waiting for my colony to build up again. Perhaps by November.

Aquabid also has RR for sale. I personally stay away from those ads that say BR/BV as to me it is evidence that a seller doesn't know the difference...but then again, there are some that swear up and down there is no difference- so make up your own mind.


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## Duck5003 (Oct 1, 2012)

I'm in the process of setting up my new shrimp/fish room, so once that is done i will have room for a lot more tanks. 

At this time, the only RR i have are ones i have been working on crossing PFR's with Snowballs. I am two generations in and so far what i want to happen, is going well (knocks on wood). So i dont want to use these guys.

Now i do have DBV, some with some nice dark tissue. Until i get my hands on some RR, what i'm going to do is throw two of my nicer, mature DBV females in my PFR tank. Once they berry, seperate them and we'll see what happens with the first generation, if anything. Really just something to try while i gather more shrimp and tanks  

This is not the approach i would prefer, with red typically fading out in the BV line but i'll be interested to see what happens with it for now. The only reason is, when crossing snowball and PFR I have gotten some really cool shrimp so far, so i'm hoping for the same type of effect with DBV and PFR. 

Thanks for setting all this up Bryce! I'm really looking forward to what we can all come up with. Happy shrimping!


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

Thanks for the explanation! Shrimp genetics are all new to me, but I'm here to learn.  

I'm patient, so I'll wait until I've got some extra bucks and either pick some up from Rachel or you when the time is right (unless someone else wants to trade for plants... otherwise I'll be setting up an RAOK soon...I'm seriously getting overrun). Don't think I want to chance on AB.

Sounds like it may be best to leave my BV out of the equation.


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## PatriotP (Aug 13, 2013)

I think ill start with some red rilis get them going then introduce others, has anyone tried introducing carbon rilis? I kno they have some black but blue as well!


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

I was playing around with the same idea, P. The unknown factor for me is if the rili gene is located at the same loci. If not, then wilds are thrown.

If so, then the question becomes if there is a single dominant color gene or multiples.


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

Shrimp make rabbits seem easy. All we had to deal with were agouti vs self genes (basically 4 variations of each), and if they were complicated by spots, Dutch, harlequin or hidden by white. This is going to be fun.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Great to have your knowledge of rabbit genetics brought to the table! I have experience with mice and rat genetics myself, but with shrimp I'm lost! LOL


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

Are there any known alleles for shrimp? Any known crosses that produce reliable results that we can track?


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

I do not know of any, and I have been researching/breeding for a while now. If anybody does know any, it would be great to hear.

There used to be some info at http://shrimpsider.wordpress.com/tag/kumak-shrimp/ but it was taken down.

kumakshrimp.com is a great place to start understanding the ideas of color.


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

Looks like great info if I can figure out how to translate it. 

I found this discussion on white shrimp where Kumak talks briefly about the red and blue pigments on rilis. May or may not help or make sense to us newbies. http://www.mondocaridine.com/web/forum/52-esperto-allevatore/12292-kumak-shrimp--snow-white.html


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Basically I think he's saying that you can create a better quality red hood/tail by breeding with pfr.

Which is true. I've done that myself. However after that you have to cull cull cull to get back to a high grade rili quality again.

He's also saying that if you leave blue tissue to breed randomly with blue tissue, it will eventually degenerate to clear. That's why you need to breed the best to best.


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

So the trick seems to be how to keep the high quality red characteristics and keep the blue from degenerating, since it seems to cancel itself out. Hmmm.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Yep, but when you think about it, the best shrimp is always bred by culling anyway. If left to their own devices, shrimp tend to go backwards in grades by random breeding.


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## Mr.reef (Aug 27, 2013)

I would like to join.

All i have now is red cherry. JUst started - got them a few days ago.
Is this allright to start from 
or
What should I get to try to get these BBRR started.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

You can join, Mr.reef Glad to have ya. 

Red Rilis may be a good place to start your project, but if you can't do that at the moment, we can still use your thoughts. 

mosspearl, the major challenges I've found is that for some reason the blue tends to cause havoc with the red quality of coverage.

Red hood/tail + Blue tissue = K (whereas K is a constant)

So if one goes up, the other tends to go down. Like a see saw. I think the trick is to little by little increase each side. But this is just guessing at this point.


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## Mr.reef (Aug 27, 2013)

Thnaks for putting me on the list & in the club

LUCKY #13 ---- yes!


For now I will be an observer primarily

I looked around a little

what about a cross of red rirl & blue jelly ---
any thoughts or has any body done ???
maybe I will --- 
but not for a month or so after watching whats going to go on.

I really like the look of the "BBRR" in the first post ---
GREAT looking shrimp
~
~


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

So it may end up being like the goal to produce the perfect Dutch or Harlequin rabbit... you consistently produce x number of culls for every one perfect specimen you get.

Welcome, Mr. Reef!  The more the merrier!


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Blue Jelly I believe is another name for BV.

mosspearl, you may very well be correct. When trying to set a strain, that usually happens anyway to a lesser degree.


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## msjinkzd (May 12, 2007)

i just snapped some pics of the ones I have been working with- had no idea you were into these bryce. I will post them up once I crop them


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## msjinkzd (May 12, 2007)

So I have crossed high grade cherries with my red rilis, and they consistently throw a few of these bluer ones each berry. I have been pulling those, but haven't decided what to add next. Seems like when the blue gets nice,t he red has a more maroon appearance (makes sense by color theory), and I sacrifice the nice striping for the better blue color. I dunno. It is not something I am working super hard on, but I do cull/separate ALL shrimp I get in and the ones I keep to breed. Here are just a few quick snaps


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

Nice pics, Rachel. Good to meet you. I've heard lots of good things about your shrimp.


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## msjinkzd (May 12, 2007)

thanks! I don't get to spend as much time on my "projects" as I would like as it takes a lot of time to maintain the fish room as a whole. I do have about 12 or so fo these separated out, they are first generation showing blue and most still have some red coverage. Not sure where to go next.

On another note, i am also working at making a blue dwarf crayfish with similar issues. Wish there were papers out there to help!


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

So do I, Rachel. heh That's why I created this club out of frustration. The more we share, the more we know. the more we know, the more patterns and colors can be created.

Beautiful BBRR by the way! Are those F1s? May I add you as a member?

I love love love a good BBRR. I think it is one of the prettiest neos out there, and it's a shame more people haven't explored them.


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## msjinkzd (May 12, 2007)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> So do I, Rachel. heh That's why I created this club out of frustration. The more we share, the more we know. the more we know, the more patterns and colors can be created.
> 
> Beautiful BBRR by the way! Are those F1s? May I add you as a member?
> 
> I love love love a good BBRR. I think it is one of the prettiest neos out there, and it's a shame more people haven't explored them.


Yea, for sure.

I have many generations of rilis, but the blues just started showing up. The F1 thing for me is confusing, as that would be a first generation tank bred from wild stock, and none of these line bred neos are technically wild stock, perhaps we need new descriptors.


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## 0live (Jun 8, 2013)

msjinkzd said:


> Yea, for sure.
> 
> I have many generations of rilis, but the blues just started showing up. The F1 thing for me is confusing, as that would be a first generation tank bred from wild stock, and none of these line bred neos are technically wild stock, perhaps we need new descriptors.


F1 is supposed to be the first generation from any one breeding, F standing for filial. That breeding doesn't need to be from wild stock.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

+1 to Olive. Basically P1 indicates your starting point and F1 denotes the first offspring.

From there it gets really muddy. Ideally one separates and moves each generation to their own tank to follow progress and denote each generation there after. However as shrimpers it is not feasible for most of us- so as a result there's a lot of back breeding going on, etc. Because of this we tend to bastardize the process some and make educated guesses as to what generation we're up to now in our tanks.


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## shrimpo (Aug 2, 2009)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> From there it gets really muddy. Ideally one separates and moves each generation to their own tank to follow progress and denote each generation there after. However as shrimpers it is not feasible for most of us- so as a result there's a lot of back breeding going on, etc. Because of this we tend to bastardize the process some and make educated guesses as to what generation we're up to now in our tanks.


How many tanks do we need and how many generations will take before we can see some light through the tunnel?


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

That depends on what you decide to try and how lucky you get.

there's many different ideas on how to go about this. I'm hoping this club will get us all to communicate with each other while we find out the best results.


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

Well, my betta just got a new tank, leaving my Evolve4 ready for BBRR experimentation.  He'll be able to move over as soon as it's cycled. My husband is quite the enabler.


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## msjinkzd (May 12, 2007)

haha, yes, filial means sons and daughters, but it is generally accepted, at least with fish, that this starts from wild offspring 

Definition of FILIAL GENERATION
: a generation in a breeding experiment that is successive to a mating between parents of two distinctively different but usually relatively pure genotypes 


I guess it sort of applies, just seems a bit muddy to me


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

To muddy it even further, we don't have homozygous shrimp necessarily. heh So, we just do what we have to to make sense for ourselves. 

I'm really hoping that by sharing what we do to try to create, we inturn may help others and ourselves to unlock a little part of genetics for shrimp.

Wouldn't it be great to know that

x color + y color = z color?


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## msjinkzd (May 12, 2007)

yup!


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## shrimpo (Aug 2, 2009)

This is about fish selective breeding, it may help us a little.
http://www.fao.org/docrep/field/009/v8720e/V8720E03.htm


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Lots of information there shrimpo!


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Where's everyone at as far as the BBRR project?


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## water-kitties (Mar 19, 2013)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> Where's everyone at as far as the BBRR project?


Cycling tank, curious as to what type of stock to start with. Also, bought salty shrimp bee GH+ by mistake. :hihi:


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

That's what I use. 

As for starting point, that's really up to you. I did RR x BR and have some light blue BBRR, but man I had to go through a lot of shrimp to have those.


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

For those of you who already have BBRR to some degree, can you discuss how you got there for us newbies? Do we want to pick up where you are? Do we want to repeat the steps and add new lines? Do we want to try different crosses?


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## shrimpo (Aug 2, 2009)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> Where's everyone at as far as the BBRR project?


 I got 3 x 3 gallon tanks running now and 1 x 40 gallon that I will use to hold other 6 or 8 x 1 gallon cubes.
I selected the one darker RR and BR and put them together, they are still young though.


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## water-kitties (Mar 19, 2013)

My red rili atm are culls from blue rili but I lost quite a few due to unknown reasons (looking at you city water!) so whats left of that stock is in with some cherries in a nano community at the moment. My most promising blue ones of course died. 










This guys still kicking around though!


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

The upside is that the ones that survived are the hardiest. :thumbsup: That a nice coverage on that hood there as well.

---

I'm waiting to see how the babies of the light blue BBRR are that I separated into another tank. If they aren't bluer, I may try a different method, or may put some BR with them again for another generation.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

My Mixed Rili Tank. RR x BR









My camera kind of wipes teh blue from most everything except the darkest when using flash.


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## Edub (Mar 23, 2011)

These are some of my favorite shrimp. I love the red and blue contrast. I have been wanting a stable population of these for a whiiiiiile. Needless to say I will be watching this thread very closely.

I find neos to be so much more interesting than the bee shrimp, mostly because neos are so much easier to keep in my tap water haha. 

I only have regular red rilis ATM, but I have been eyeballing some promising looking BBRR shrimp that have been popping up in the for sale section. When I start getting some paychecks from the new job I might just have to get a couple, but first I need a co2 regulator... and ferts... and a new filter... and more food... ugh 

IN THE MEANTIME... good luck everyone. I'll be joining your ranks soon...


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

You are welcome to join as a member anytime, my friend. Even ideas are important.

That's the original reason I got into neos for breeding projects. I figured if I could take away as many challenges of keeping sensitive shrimp as I could, then I could focus more on having fun with breeding.


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

Looking good, there, Soothing. roud: Looks like you'll have enough soon to send me a few... :biggrin:


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

I hope to by November, my friend.


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## shrimpo (Aug 2, 2009)

I've been breeding shrimp for a while but I am newbie to selective breeding.
This is one of the darkest shrimp I have, still not sure which one is which but does it matter if the female red rili or blue rili?


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

I like your set up, Shrimpo.  Very sleek.


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## shrimpo (Aug 2, 2009)

mosspearl said:


> I like your set up, Shrimpo.  Very sleek.


Thanks, any additional tank has to be wife approved.


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## Duck5003 (Oct 1, 2012)

Well i haven't gotten a chance to get a secondary source of RR just yet (i need to get my shrimp/fish room set up). Right now i have two DBV females in my PFR tank, one just berried. So we'll see what comes of it. What i'm thinking is if we break it down into trial runs. Something like

RRxBV/DBV=??
RRxBR=??

BRxPFR=??
BRxBV/DBV=??

PFRxBV/DBV=??

This may help to rule out things that work, things that dont, and mixes that bring about the traits we're working towards and see what happens. Just a fill in the gaps approach. I guess for that matter we should also throw BBRR that are out there, regardless of grade to see what comes about. Since thats a lot of tanks for one person for one project, people could try their hand at one or another. Or all if you have the space and tanks! Thoughts on this approach?

BBRRxBV/DBV=??
BBRRxPFR=??
BBRRxRR=??
BBRRxBR=??


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

Good idea, Duck. So far I have BV. I'm planning on getting some BBRRs from Soothing in Nov. I also have a Sakura Red... not sure where that falls compared to a PFR, but I've got that to throw in the mix if I need to infuse more red. I have one tank I can use for this project at this time, so I could take one of the mixes that use either my Sakura or a BV.


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## shrimpo (Aug 2, 2009)

Duck5003 said:


> What i'm thinking is if we break it down into trial runs.


That will help speeding up the process.
How about gender? is it going to make a difference?
For example : male RR X female BR =?
female RR X male BR =?


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## Duck5003 (Oct 1, 2012)

Honestly mosspearl, i dont think there is all THAT big of a difference. I've seen sakura and PFR labels on shrimp and they look the same. I believe it has to do with whether or not you can see a saddle or not, but either way, just a really red shrimp  

And as for the male/female, that is another interesting variable. Typically we see the females with the darker more vibrant colors so that could make a difference. I know right now i am working on a cross between snowball and PFR. I started the project with a female snowball and a male PFR a while back, but my goal was to retain the white eggs which is why i went with that match. So far its working out nicely. Havent tried the latter though. 

I'm fairly new to the whole selective breeding process. The reason i went with female DBV's with my PFR's and not the other way around, a lot of my male PFR have breaks in the coloring around the midsection. And my female DBV's are considerably darker than my males. My hope here is blue tissue filling the gaps in the red shell coloring. My only concern is the fact that BV/DBV as mentioned before have a mutation that forces them to lose the red head/tail gear with age. That being said, perhaps crossing back to PFR males that have broken up midsections but solid red on head and tail will strengthen the ability to keep the red through adulthood with the BV mutation. OR provide an offspring to cross into RR or BBRR that could produce a solid starting point. Again, all just ideas so feel free to poke holes in them as this will only help in reaching our main goal  Once my second DBV female is berried I will seperate them out so the young can be monitored to see what happens. I suppose i could through a PFR female in my DBV tank??


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

Thanks, Duck. I'm very new to shrimp, but not new to selective breeding in other livestock. I think this will be a fascinating experiment and I can't wait to get started.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Shrimpo, you asked does it make a difference if a color is male or female. The answer is yes.

On neos the female carries the color trait. So say you want a darker version of orange, look for the best female orange. Hopefully you will find a nice male too, but if not- it's not the end of the world because of the reason stated earlier.

Now, having said that, which color would work best? RR(m) x BR(f), or RR(f) x BR(m)

My *guess* is since the blue is naturally carried in the male tissue, and the red shell may be best expressed in the female- RR(f) x BR(m)

However that is ONLY a guess. It would be interesting to see both outcomes to see which may work better.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Duck, I think the BV mutation will show up in f1. I don't think BV is dominant, so essentially you may have BR expressed in the first generation with a possible BV recessive.

But as everyone knows, no one has written a guide on shrimp genetics yet...that I know of.


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## shrimpo (Aug 2, 2009)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> So far I've tried red rili x blue rili crosses by placing RR and BR in the same tank. I've wound up with red rilis with barely noticeable blue in the middle, blue rilis (no red), red rilis, and the occasional cherry. These have all interbred.


I am assuming that this is incomplete dominant gene action where red is stronger than blue? what do you think about this:

/ R / r 
......\......\.......
b / Rb / br 
.....\.......\.......
r / Rr / rr 
......\.......\.......​

Rr= red rili.
br= blue rili.
rr = red cherry.
Rb= red rili with barely blue in the middle.


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

That would make red cherry completely recessive. I have a feeling it's going to be more complex than a simple Punnet square would lead us to believe. 

The blue is an actual tissue color, and the red is shell color, correct? So we're dealing with two completely different tissues involved with pigment, as well as two different pigments. If you bring up the possibilities of different loci for the genes, etc,... it's a good thing there are so many of us working on this.


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## shrimpo (Aug 2, 2009)

mosspearl said:


> That would make red cherry completely recessive. I have a feeling it's going to be more complex than a simple Punnet square would lead us to believe.
> 
> The blue is an actual tissue color, and the red is shell color, correct? So we're dealing with two completely different tissues involved with pigment, as well as two different pigments. If you bring up the possibilities of different loci for the genes, etc,... it's a good thing there are so many of us working on this.


I know it's not easy but I just want to have an idea about the parents genes based on the offspring colors.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Hey, you can try that, but it's not so cut and dry as far as I've seen. 

As said though, ANY ideas and theories are welcome! Perhaps someone smarter than I will be able to muddle though and put pieces together to figure out the puzzle!


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## shrimpo (Aug 2, 2009)

Soothing Shrimp, when you said you put red rili and blue rili in the same tank is that a group of each or 1 red and 1 blue rili? can you guestimate the color percentage of the offsprings?
I guess with team work we will achieve our goal, Thank you for putting together this club.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

The origin of my mixed rilis came from Jimko a year or two back before he got out of shrimping.

I then placed the mixed rilis I had with some blue rilis to hopefully increase the depth of blue. Ratio of maybe 1 BR/20 RR (or very light BBRR). I also added a couple pfr for better rili pattern.

Offspring consist of very few BBRR, majority of RR (very light BBRR), and the occasional BR, with the even more rare fire red. This has been going on for generations now. I'm maybe in the 4th or 5th generation in.


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## Kehy (Feb 5, 2012)

Bad news on my front, I had to take off on vacation for 6 weeks, with no on around to care for my tanks. The good news? I have some blue and some red shrimp. The bad news? I have no more than 10 shrimp in a tank that used to have over 50. 

I am looking into the possibilities that such a large cull would have though. One of the survivors is an amazing DBV girl, and I added some solid red cherries with good color, and a couple of actual rilis. I think for now I'll try and get blue and red on the same shrimp before I go for the rili.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Worth a shot. Really we are on the frontier of trying things. Some amazing shrimp will come out of unforeseen combos.

I think Shrimpo may find out some amazing things with the plan he is planning on doing. Perhaps he'll share with us.


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## shrimpo (Aug 2, 2009)

I hope so too but it will take some time, I will get some pictures taken and I will update the details later.


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## pleco808 (Jun 17, 2013)

*BBRR club*

Hi, very nice looking shrimp. I would like to join the BBRR club.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

You are added, pleco.


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## TankYouVeryMuch (Jul 5, 2013)

now THATS a purdy shrimp


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## Edub (Mar 23, 2011)

just curious, but do you think it would be possible to have an orange rili with a blue body?


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Do I think it may be possible? Yes. Have I seen one? No.

However understand that the current orange rilis I have seen are an orange tissue with a clear section. IMO you will never get a blue bodied orange from that because a tissue color is already taken.

You would have to have an orange rili colored shell, and a blue tissue. Keep in mind if the shell was not strongly pigmented the orange color would be see through and the shrimp would probably look brown rili with blue body.


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## Edub (Mar 23, 2011)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> Do I think it may be possible? Yes. Have I seen one? No.
> 
> However understand that the current orange rilis I have seen are an orange tissue with a clear section. IMO you will never get a blue bodied orange from that because a tissue color is already taken.
> 
> You would have to have an orange rili colored shell, and a blue tissue. Keep in mind if the shell was not strongly pigmented the orange color would be see through and the shrimp would probably look brown rili with blue body.


ahhh I see. Very interesting. I've never kept orange neos, do they have orange tissue or shells? I don't really have the space for an extensive breeding project so I will probably just stick with the red rili I have and try to make them blue, but an orange and blue neo would POP.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

I agree they would look pretty neat, however the rili orange would have to be painted orange.


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## Edub (Mar 23, 2011)

Ugh I have been trying SO HARD to avoid the shrimp bug. I messed around with guppies, CPOs, and now apistos... but this one might do me in. Ive given up on CRS and tibees for now because of their water requirements but there is NO EXCUSE to not have a whole room full of neos haha. Im gonna set up 2 1g tanks that I have and see if I can source some good stock...


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## Edub (Mar 23, 2011)

There is a new seller, dont think I can post his name but his thread is currently on page 9 of the SnS, that is selling almost exactly what we're looking for. He has them labeled as "blue rilis" but they are clearly (according to his picture) red rilis with blue bodies. Even his red rilis look kind of blue. If the picture is accurate they look fantastic, and I will probably pick some up in a few weeks. 10 for $40 isn't bad. Either that or try to acquire some blue neos and cross them with my red rilis. Buying something that is already close seems MUCH faster.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

It is faster if they breed true, however there are many sellers who add color to pictures to make sales.

I haven't found anywhere in the US yet that has a stable stock of nice BBRR. Out of frustration, this club was born.


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## shrimpo (Aug 2, 2009)

This is the shrimp I showed earlier, they are now in one of the 3 gallon tanks. The other picture is the 40 gallon tank, each box will hold 1 pair only, I will put a heater and live plants in the center of the tank that will be used for housing the cull shrimp. This is going to be trial and error as I may be doing something wrong or backward since not all the shrimp have the same genes.
Once everything in order I will keep you updated.


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

Wow, what a great set up!


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Very inspiring! Did you cut the coconut huts yourself?

I challenge I have run into my breeding projects, and you may or may not run into yours is that when I move a pair or trio to a smaller space than which they are accustomed (if adult), they often refuse to breed. I think it's because they feel trapped.

Because your set up is in one tank and they can see each other close up through containers, perhaps yours won't have the same issues.


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## shrimpo (Aug 2, 2009)

I bought the coconut halves already cut and I drilled the top.
Long time ago I moved 2 cherry shrimp from 40 gallon tank to a glass container about 6 times smaller than the above boxes (this was just an experiment), I provided rock for hiding, live plant, low light and about 10% water change every week, they breed successfully in there and then I moved them with the shrimplets to the original tank.
I think as long as they feel secure they will breed regardless of the space. I don't know about other shrimp species though.


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## bud29 (Sep 30, 2012)

I'm a bit late to the party, but I'll join anyway 

Looks like I know how to spend my fish funds now  I want to try this out!


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Welcome! I'll add your name now!


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## bud29 (Sep 30, 2012)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> Welcome! I'll add your name now!


Thanks!

Do you know where to get some quality (but reasonably priced) BRs? I just ordered a dozen Red Rilis from Rachel, but can't find a good place for blues. I did find a cheap lot on aquabid, but they all looked like reds (with the exception of a few VERY light blues).


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Antbug used to have some, but I don't know if he does anymore. Look him up and see if he still sells the solid blue rilis. They used to be $2-3 each if I remember correctly.


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## bud29 (Sep 30, 2012)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> Antbug used to have some, but I don't know if he does anymore. Look him up and see if he still sells the solid blue rilis. They used to be $2-3 each if I remember correctly.


Doesn't look like he still sells them  His last sale thread was about 6 months ago. The ones sold currently by some different people look like RR with VERY light blue.

I shall keep hunting 


*EDIT:* Just found a new listing on aquabid  I'll place a bid.


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## msjinkzd (May 12, 2007)

my blues just threw some kick back red rilis- any suggestions on what to do with these?


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## shrimpo (Aug 2, 2009)

msjinkzd said:


> my blues just threw some kick back red rilis- any suggestions on what to do with these?


Send them to us for free :icon_smil (joking).
I would separate and breed them and see what the offsprings will look like.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Every now and then that happens. Kinda like throwing "wilds" since BR came from RR anyway. The good news is that they should carry genes for both BR and RR (I think) and could be moved to your BBRR tank to increase the odds.

I had something similar happen to my Nessies. I just had some of my Nessies throw reds. Many many many generations ago the original mutation came from fire reds, and now much later the modfiers matched up JUST RIGHT to do a throw back. Amazing. I separated them to another tank for them to grow up, breed, and to see their offspring.


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## msjinkzd (May 12, 2007)

so this is what is being thrown out of my supposed blue velvet tank


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## msjinkzd (May 12, 2007)

that is a TEENy shrimp, less than .25", curious to see how it develops. I have at least a half dozen like tht. The rest are the typical solid very nice blue


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Beautiful. Keep us informed. My bet is that the red will fade by later juvie age, but I've been wrong before.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

May as well do my own little update. My selected BBRR x BBRR parent's tank babies look no better than very very light BBRR or RR. In other words, no better than the colony I selected the BBRR from. I have another berry right now. If these do not have better color, then I'm using the tenner for something else and going to experimentation mode in a smaller project tank that takes up less real estate.

It may be possible that the blue cannot be stabilized as far as intensity. I'm going to keep trying different methods though.


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## oblongshrimp (Jul 26, 2006)

So are blue velvets and blue rili basically the same thing? I get a lot of blues from my blue rilis that have no red on them and look just like blue velvets. Or is it a different mutation?.


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## Kehy (Feb 5, 2012)

Bad news on my front once again. Lost all my blue shrimp due to a stupid user error with root tabs, and one of my nicest RR (was only 10 shrimp in the tank). Can't decide whether to get more blues and try again, or just stick to reds.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

A different mutation. BV actually start out red and then it fades by juvie age leaving the blue.

Less than 1% have red on them as adults, and even then often it fades as well as they get older.

The looks are pretty much the same, just different genetics.



oblongshrimp said:


> So are blue velvets and blue rili basically the same thing? I get a lot of blues from my blue rilis that have no red on them and look just like blue velvets. Or is it a different mutation?.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Kehy said:


> Bad news on my front once again. Lost all my blue shrimp due to a stupid user error with root tabs, and one of my nicest RR (was only 10 shrimp in the tank). Can't decide whether to get more blues and try again, or just stick to reds.


Totally up to you. I can almost guarantee even if you have RR, at some point they'll throw a BBRR.


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## shrimpo (Aug 2, 2009)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> May as well do my own little update. My selected BBRR x BBRR parent's tank babies look no better than very very light BBRR or RR.


How old are the shrimplets? are you going to breed them with the parents?


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Yes, I'm back breeding. Juvie age now.


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## The Dude (Feb 8, 2011)

Just got my carbon Rili tank up and running. Adding stock next weekend maybe. 








I also was just "given" another tank when my Electric Blue Ram decided to kill his mate. He will go back in the community 46g and the 20g will house Red Rilis or Sakura / Fire Reds from my Cherry tank. I will then set up my 2 gallon Betta Vase for very selective breeding to get the best red Rili's by breeding them with PFR and then breeding those to my Carbon Rili's should be good.


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## Hobbes1911 (Mar 2, 2009)

The Dude said:


> Just got my carbon Rili tank up and running. Adding stock next weekend maybe.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Maybe wait a bit with the shrimp for nice biofilm build-up. It should be good in a couple of weeks (dust algae, etc.)


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Looks great! I've often wondered carbons x RR = BBRR? Glad to see you are trying it!

My BBRR offspring just aren't cutting it as far as deep blue coloration goes. Now I'm using the tank for a 2nd tank of Mixed rilis to see if I can double my chances of any nice deep blue BBRR popping out.


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## The Dude (Feb 8, 2011)

Hobbes1911 said:


> Maybe wait a bit with the shrimp for nice biofilm build-up. It should be good in a couple of weeks (dust algae, etc.)


That's a good idea. I think I'm going to put some Monte Carlo and Hydrocotyle Japan in there with DIY C02 for a few weeks and see how they do. Hopefully they get established enough to do fine on just the Metricide when I add shrimp


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## shrimpo (Aug 2, 2009)

Update:
I selected the best color from the shrimp I have and set-up 3 pairs.
Box 1: BR(male) x BR(female)
Box 2: BR(male) x RR(female)
Box 3: BR(male) x grade AA cherry shrimp (female).
All the females are berried right now, the following are BR female molt (before transfering to the 1 gallon box) and AA cherry shrimp.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Quick berries shrimpo.


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## msjinkzd (May 12, 2007)

so my bbrr are retaining the red color, though the blueis not as vibrant as when they were young. I will try and get some updated pics. Seems like 4 or 5 of them out of the berry are that way, at nearly .5"


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

.5" is still on the larger juvie side. For BV in general, I think for my strains they get roughly about .75" or so full grown.

If they have the BV mutation, the reds will fade. If for some reason your BBRR are partial throwbacks to RR, you may have a good thing going. Only time will tell if they fade or not. 

Thanks for keeping us updated, and please continue to do so! I love our little group.


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## Silly's_Planted (Nov 3, 2013)

I feel in love with these little guys after seeing a group being sold on aquabid. I would love to follow along, but I don't have enough tanks to try to produce any


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Follow along from the comfort of your chair.  Not everyone has tank space, so admiration fills desire sometimes. heh


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## PatriotP (Aug 13, 2013)

Red rilis should be shipped out today heading to me  I'm excited to get my first shrimp tank with some shrimp in it! I have 2 neon tetras who I will be quarantining until I can take them home to my bigger tank and I just added 2 ottos I got last week! My moss is seeing new growth after scaring me turning dark haha  here's my updated tank!









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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

My rilis from Soothing Shrimp arrived today and they are acclimating as we speak.  :::waves::: Thanks for the shrimp! They look terrific! I can't wait to see them in the tank. Pics will be forthcoming.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Hopefully your BBRR will throw some nice dark ones. Good luck!


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

Oh, me too. You sent some really interesting ones. Some have nice dark heads & tails, some have some nice blue, some are mostly red with stripes on their backs, and one is almost a pale green. I'm sure I'll pick out more... they're having a great time exploring. I love them!


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## shrimpo (Aug 2, 2009)

mosspearl said:


> Oh, me too. You sent some really interesting ones. Some have nice dark heads & tails, some have some nice blue, some are mostly red with stripes on their backs, and one is almost a pale green. I'm sure I'll pick out more... they're having a great time exploring. I love them!


 Do you have any plans on how to selectively breed them?


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Did you find the plum I sent?


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

Not yet. I'm going to spend some time observing to see what I have and what they throw. I know Soothing's stock can produce quite a variety, so once I have several promising specimens of each sex, they can go into their own tank. Heck, I may need to set up several tanks so I can experiment with several different variations. :::mad shrimp scientist rises::: Bwahahah!

I'm not sure if I've seen the plum yet or not... they move so fast, and they'll probably color up some more as they relax. I took a bunch of pictures. I'm going through them in a bit to see what I've captured.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

That's the fun of selective breeding!


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

Are one of these the plum? There's a purplish one in the first photo...










And a bluish one in the second...


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

You nailed it in your first photo.


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

> You nailed it in your first photo.


Score! :biggrin:


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## PatriotP (Aug 13, 2013)

gah i dont even have my shrimp yet, (get them Wednesday so excited) and im already looking at other tanks etc for selective breeding once i get things rolling lol its a good break from the load of studying i have on me right now though lol 

Anyone else in college? If so anyone planning on going to some sort of grad school?


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Just a word of warning about grad school. You can literally educate yourself out of a job depending on your specialty. 

Overqualified and little need for supervisors, etc.


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## PatriotP (Aug 13, 2013)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> Just a word of warning about grad school. You can literally educate yourself out of a job depending on your specialty.
> 
> Overqualified and little need for supervisors, etc.


I hear you! For me it's law school rather than just a masters, so it's required to go into my field! 


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders, my friend.


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## PatriotP (Aug 13, 2013)

They came today  here are a few pics after they were out in the tank!! 




































All 7 made it safe and sound! 


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## water-kitties (Mar 19, 2013)

I have two huge berried blue rili moms in my breeding box since last week. We will see what comes out of that. Have my bluest lady and gent paired up as well, hope for even more berries soon!


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Looking good, folks. Patriot, are those clear in the middle or have blue in the middle?


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## PatriotP (Aug 13, 2013)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> Looking good, folks. Patriot, are those clear in the middle or have blue in the middle?


Hard to tell, but I swear some look blue-ish in the middle haha they are very small little guys so have to get a little bigger to really see! 



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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

Congrats on the new rilis, Patriot! 

And congrats on the berries, water-kitties!


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Hopefully we can get some nice breeding success for our BBRR as a group now.


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## PatriotP (Aug 13, 2013)

Thanks!  they're so fun to watch! I keep trying to count them all haha good distraction from my studying for accounting exam tm hahaha 

so what's the growth rate of shrimp? Like these being Juvies how long for them to grow to adults and be able to breed? 


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## shrimpo (Aug 2, 2009)

Keep up the good work folks.
PatriotP, the growth rate depends on temperature and water parameters, I would say it will take about ~ couple months.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Very roughly around 2-3 months from birth to first berry.


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## PatriotP (Aug 13, 2013)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> Very roughly around 2-3 months from birth to first berry.


Sorry for so many questions haha part of learning! How can you tell how old a shrimp is for example mine are from .25"-.5" would those be just a week or two old? or a month or so?


Thanks!  Already been thinking about setting up a small 2.5-3g tank for selective breeding hahaha


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## water-kitties (Mar 19, 2013)

Thanks for the well wishes. Having trouble getting my best blue berried still.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

PatriotP said:


> Sorry for so many questions haha part of learning! How can you tell how old a shrimp is for example mine are from .25"-.5" would those be just a week or two old? or a month or so?
> 
> 
> Thanks!  Already been thinking about setting up a small 2.5-3g tank for selective breeding hahaha



Selective breeding is a great hobby and the only way in the US that we are really going to get quality shrimp. But it does take the breeding trinity. 

With shrimp, unless the breeder tells you, it is almost impossible to tell how long it took to get to that stage. Growth depends on how clean the water is, how often water changes, temperature, etc. Due to the size though, I would consider them young juvies.


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## musician71604 (May 5, 2012)

I'm a bit late to this party, but I've had several "blue" shrimp pop up in my red rili tank. Here's a picture of the bluest baby and some of the adults.


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

Nice blue, musician71604!


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## musician71604 (May 5, 2012)

Thanks!


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## msjinkzd (May 12, 2007)

update on the one that i pictured awhile back- still blue and red! I have several of these in my blue velvet tank and soem from my red rilis.


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## 0live (Jun 8, 2013)

I'm supposed to be partaking in this breeding project.. I should probably get some rillis.


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

They're beautiful, Rachel!


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## jeff.l (May 28, 2013)

I have had some success with my BBRR lately, I have been working with them for a while but had not seen this thread. This is the recepie in which I used to do them. I created my fire red rili shrimp using a typical rili and a painted fire red shrimp then proceeded to like breed them for a couple generations. My first attempt had me using dark blue velvets crossed with these painted fore rili but had limited success. Around this time I noticed some of my painted ires were throwing off some blue bodied shrimp but only one or two out of 100. I took these babies which retained red to adulthood and crossed them into the dark blue velvets . these shrimp mostly reverted back to a higher grade blue velvet with some dark blotches. Using these offspring bred back into my painted fire reds. I now have a generation growing that has the darker blue body with a good red head. The blue body is more.in the flesh while the red body is more in the carapace. Hopefully they will retain their color and I can line breed from their 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

msjinkzd said:


> update on the one that i pictured awhile back- still blue and red! I have several of these in my blue velvet tank and soem from my red rilis.
> View attachment 234554



Fantastic Rach! Do you see any fems ready to breed yet?


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## shrimpo (Aug 2, 2009)

msjinkzd said:


> update on the one that i pictured awhile back- still blue and red! I have several of these in my blue velvet tank and soem from my red rilis.


That shrimp looks great, keep us updated.


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## shrimpo (Aug 2, 2009)

jeff.l said:


> I have had some success with my BBRR lately, I have been working with them for a while but had not seen this thread...
> Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk


Thank you for sharing your breeding tips.


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## msjinkzd (May 12, 2007)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> Fantastic Rach! Do you see any fems ready to breed yet?


I have one with a small saddle- I have to pull them, was waiting to see if they really retained color worth breeding them for first.


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## 0live (Jun 8, 2013)

Okay jumping back in on this.. I've got some BVs I'm going to try crossing with RR's using jeff.l's method.


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## msjinkzd (May 12, 2007)

anyone interested that has more time/effort to spend than I do- hit me up, I can send you some of the juvies pictured for base cost. I wish I had enough time to do this seriously, but managing 100+ tanks gets draining- I have been pulling, but it is not something that can get primary focus. I think I have some great starter stock, that I will let go for base rili pricing should you mention this breeding project. PLEASE EMAIL ME


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

Oh I hope someone can take Rachel up on her very generous offer! She had some awesome rilis pictured!  

Thanks for posting, Rachel!


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Very generous Rachel. Hope you have a taker!


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## Merth (Sep 9, 2012)

Email sent checking if still available


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## msjinkzd (May 12, 2007)

yup! We have a taker!


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Fantastic! Thank you for your generosity to our club, Rach!


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## newbieplanter (Jan 13, 2013)

I would love to participate in this but I can't even get the shrimp to survive yet lol


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Shrimp are a learning curve, but definitely worth the learning.


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## shrimpo (Aug 2, 2009)

Update:
BR(M) X BR(F) = shrimplets all red with few starting to show some blue.
BR(M) X RR(F) = all shrimplets are red at this moment.
BR(M) X gradeAA cherry shrimp (F) = all shrimplets are red but darker than the above.
This is not the final color that they will get, just to give you an idea how they look like right now.
I set up another box for RR(M) X BR(F), I will keep you updated on that one too.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Shrimpo, nice job professor!


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## shrimpo (Aug 2, 2009)

I am no pro just sharing my experiments. I may become a shrimpologist one day:icon_smil


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

I think the biggest thing holding back shrimping is knowledge of color genetics.


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## shrimpo (Aug 2, 2009)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> I think the biggest thing holding back shrimping is knowledge of color genetics.


 Have you heard of Crusta10 group? they are aiming on linking aquarium hobbyists with scientists. 
http://www.crustaforum.com/board/showthread.php?1149-Interview-to-Werner-Klotz-(english-version)


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Interesting link, shrimpo.


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## water-kitties (Mar 19, 2013)

Both of my females let loose a bunch of babies this week! Waiting until they show a bit more color for some images. Some I can see a rili pattern but not much in the way of colors yet.


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## shrimpo (Aug 2, 2009)

Any progress?


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

I was just thinking about posting here today. After some observation with my red rili x blue rili, I've found that the blue tissue seems to be more intense or less intense at random intervals. Same shrimp. Perhaps depending on mood?


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## shrimpo (Aug 2, 2009)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> I was just thinking about posting here today. After some observation with my red rili x blue rili, I've found that the blue tissue seems to be more intense or less intense at random intervals. Same shrimp. Perhaps depending on mood?


 I am not sure could be water parameters too, my shrimp does the same thing and I noticed that they get more intense after water change.
The following are pictures of the shrimplets:
Note: BR(M) X RR (F) offsprings started all red but now about 1/3 are light blue.
First picture : BR(M) X BR(F) offsprings.
Second picture: BR(M) X RR(F) offsprings.
Third picture: BR(M) X Red Cherry(F) offsprings.


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## Duck5003 (Oct 1, 2012)

I'm getting some real promise with my DBVxPFR Crosses. Ratios are terrible but i have a few that have red head and tail gear with blue body and the red appears to actually be on the shell. Originally pretty much all the babies had the BBRR (typical of the BV line) and i would say 90% have turned into BV DBV. They are still on the younger side so i'm hoping the remaing 10% dont fade, but they are very different looking than typical BV babies. I have been trying and trying to get some good pics but they are elusive little buggers! I'll keep working at it.

What is most interesting to me is out of all the babies i've gotten, none of them resemble fire reds??? some have a red line going through their mid section or have just random tiny spots of red but mostly they just look like BV's and DBV's. It will be interesting to see what F2's look like. 

A big part of my delayed process is they are just not breeding at a high rate right now, i'm guessing just with winter. At any rate though, i sure am having fun with this group project of ours


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## shrimpo (Aug 2, 2009)

Duck5003 said:


> I'm getting some real promise with my DBVxPFR Crosses...
> A big part of my delayed process is they are just not breeding at a high rate right now, i'm guessing just with winter. At any rate though, i sure am having fun with this group project of ours


I would like to see the pictures of the parents and F1 when you have a chance.
Some of my F1's started to show the saddle, I am about to start another selective breeding for the next generation.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

You guys are doing much better than I. My BBRRs can look clear one day and bluish the next. These are from BBRR crossings.


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## Duck5003 (Oct 1, 2012)

So here is the mother, and a picture of my PFR's. I dont know exactly which male did the deed. The last is a shot of one of my F1's showing the red coloring on the shell and is past the point where it would have all disappeared. This is however one of my lower grades of this pattern, for some reason i can never seem to get pictures of the two with a more solid pattern but i'll keep trying. My big concern is the ratio of shrimp with this color pattern which is very low.


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## shrimpo (Aug 2, 2009)

The last one looks great Duck5003.
I discovered one young shrimp with yellow body and red spot on the top of the head, I took a picture of it among others as well.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Shrimpo, that YBRR is beautiful! Hopefully you can isolate it for a start of a very unique strain!

Any idea of who the mom/dad is?


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## shrimpo (Aug 2, 2009)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> Shrimpo, that YBRR is beautiful! Hopefully you can isolate it for a start of a very unique strain!
> 
> Any idea of who the mom/dad is?


 The parents are BR(M) X RR(F). her other brother/sister has the same red spot on the top but the body is light blue, look at second picture in my post#172. there is other 2 completely yellow shrimp in the second picture post #177, you can also see the YBRR at the back in the same picture.
Do you have any suggestions on what to cross breed it with? it looks like its going to be a female which means that the yellow will show better as it grows.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

I think if you keep all the YBRR (whether the red shows or not) together, you should have a pretty good chance of more of the same phenotype popping up. With the genetics in the background, I think you may lose it if you back breed. With luck you may get other from the same P1 paring. However even if not, you have the limited YBRRs to breed together.

What a beautiful strain to introduce to the neo world! I'll be one of the first in line. 

(Let's hope it doesn't wind up a yellow velvet!)


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## Hmoobthor (Aug 15, 2011)

whats make a BBRRR?

red rili shrimp with the tail = red
the head = red 
the middle section = blue/deep blue? light blue?


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

BBRR= Blue Body Red Rili

The middle blue tissue can be light to dark blue. The best example would be a nice dark blue middle with a bright red head/tail.


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## shrimpo (Aug 2, 2009)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> I think if you keep all the YBRR (whether the red shows or not) together, you should have a pretty good chance of more of the same phenotype popping up. With the genetics in the background, I think you may lose it if you back breed. With luck you may get other from the same P1 paring. However even if not, you have the limited YBRRs to breed together.
> 
> What a beautiful strain to introduce to the neo world! I'll be one of the first in line.
> 
> (Let's hope it doesn't wind up a yellow velvet!)


 I didn't expect the yellow to show up, I will set up a small box for them and see what will happen.
It seems like there is thousands of possibilities when working with Rili shrimp, some have clear body and red tail, others have red carapace and clear body, or both red tail and carapace...


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

The yellow is amazing! 

As for mine, it looks like I have 10 left of the original 22.  I haven't found any bodies of those missing, so the others must have taken care of them. Amazing how the hardiest seem to be those with the least color. LOL I've got one that's mostly red with a tiny light spot, one almost all light, one all light except for a red dot on the head and tail, the rest fall somewhere in between. I've minimized the decor. No berries, no saddles. We're waiting for spring, apparently. :::drumming fingers on the desk:::


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## Duck5003 (Oct 1, 2012)

Good updates everyone! That yellow shrimp is nice. A yellow bodied red rilli would be one cool looking shrimp


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## jmhk (May 3, 2013)

My best ones never want to pose (actually my camera just doesn't take good macros), but quite a few of the offspring I have from Soothing's stock are looking very nice, at least to me. This one is less painted than others in the tank and has decent blue body - but it is still quite young so the red may color up in time.











Here is one of my mature mamas with better paint:


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Looking good, my friend. :thumbsup:


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## shrimpo (Aug 2, 2009)

Gorgeous shrimp you got there jmhk.


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## Kehy (Feb 5, 2012)

I haven't been having a ton of luck with my group of hopefuls. There's one decent BR male, that's possibly BR/BV, a very lovely blue female that is again, possible BR/BV. I also have two PFR females with very prominent racing stripes that are currently berried, and one RR with at least FR quality red, and a faint blue tint to the midsection. All the girls have been berried multiple times by this male, but I haven't noticed any babies. I'm hoping a change of tank will finally give me some results. The group was in a 5 with least killies, but I guess I should've known better. 

Also, racing stripes. Are they desirable or not? I tend to like them, but I know not everyone does.


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## shrimpo (Aug 2, 2009)

The racing stripes are just personal preference, I don't mind to have them on my shrimp either.
So I separated all the juveniles from the parents and put them in the center of the 40 gallon, I snapped few pictures of the odd ones.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

How are the YBRR doing?


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## daphilster08 (Oct 21, 2009)

Wow this is a cool thread! Love that you guys are working on these projects to create these beautiful shrimps. I only have RCS and a couple light colored blue shrimp.. Not sure what the name is. I have done projects with CRS and CBS in the past so maybe I will give it a go.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

You are more than welcome to join us. It's very laid back, so we post when we have something that may be of interest while working towards a goal.


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## daphilster08 (Oct 21, 2009)

Well I will have to get my hands on some red rilis first. :icon_lol:


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## shrimpo (Aug 2, 2009)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> How are the YBRR doing?


The female still saddled, no offspring yet.


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

i would say with the yellow do like with fish breed back to the parent. one of them had the genetics to make it so by breeding it back it might bring it out more. ie if the yellow/red rili is female try to put her with her dad if you know what one it was


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## yeswaitnosorry (Feb 16, 2014)

May I join in? I love this thread. 
I've just bought some juvie RR, and some have a bluish tint. Can't wait until they mature and start breeding.



BBRR Club


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Of course you can. You are number 17.


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## yeswaitnosorry (Feb 16, 2014)

I have 6 juvies. It's a start. :thumbsup:


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

No pic showing up, my friend.


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## rodriguezro14 (Dec 18, 2013)

I really hope this project is a success! That BBRR looks so amazing! I wish I had the space to participate in this. I wish you guys and gals good luck! I shall be following this thread.


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## yeswaitnosorry (Feb 16, 2014)

fixed the link I hope. roud:


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

I see it now. Nice start you have there.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Figured I may as well share a photo of one mine from my breeding project so far.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

The more I do this, the more I am convinced the example photo in this thread is "enhanced." heh


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

Looking good!  Mine seem to be dwindling rather than breeding.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

I wonder why that is? What's your gh?


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

GH is 5


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

What is the ammonia?

A while back mine started dying off when my gh was beneath 6. Made no sense since so many people kept theirs at 5, but when I bumped it up, the dying stopped. *shrugs*


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

Ammonia is 0. Hmmm. I'll try raising the GH a bit then. Definitely worth giving it a go. I'll check all three shrimp tanks for this and see what I can do. I've only got 3 or 4 yellows left.  And I'm wondering if I have any BVs left at all.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

If you need any brainstorming, pm me. I may not be much help, but sometimes two heads are better than one.


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

Thanks!


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## Kehy (Feb 5, 2012)

Looking good! I finally have offspring from a nearly-PFR female and a BR/BV male...unfortunately I lost that male (only blue male), and my blue female, so all I've got left are reds. And about 10-15 shrimplets that are about 1 week old. The shrimplets are really coloring up bright red, some more fully covered than others. I'm guessing the blue will start to come in after about 1 month. 

Any tips on getting shrimplets to grow up quickly?


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Raise temp to get them to grow faster. The downside is you also have to pay attention for bacterial infections.


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## ChadRamsey (Nov 3, 2011)

i SOOOO want in this club....:icon_frowbut i am not cool enough :icon_frow


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

LOL You are plenty cool. Just say the word and I'll add you to the list of members.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

shrimpo said:


> The female still saddled, no offspring yet.


update on the YBRR?


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## shrimpo (Aug 2, 2009)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> update on the YBRR?


 Still waiting, I guess the male I put her with is still young.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Man am I chomping on the bit for that one.


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## shrimpo (Aug 2, 2009)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> Man am I chomping on the bit for that one.


I was wrong, the male is alright because I found the YBRR berried today.


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## Kehy (Feb 5, 2012)

shrimpo said:


> I was wrong, the male is alright because I found he YBRR berried today.


Woo! Looking forward to these!

Finally seeing just the tiniest amount of blue on one of my babies too. Of course it's the least red one, but I'll just be happy they're alive. This bunch (5-8) alone will be an extra 30% of my total shrimp population. And then I go on Spring break in a couple weeks and might lose them all. Sigh.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

shrimpo said:


> I was wrong, the male is alright because I found the YBRR berried today.


YEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :angel:


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## yeswaitnosorry (Feb 16, 2014)

I bought some juvie blue cherries, and some have a bit of colour on their heads


One is saddled so she is now in a breeder box with a RR male (fingers crossed it's a male, most of them seem to be females.)


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Looks like a blue rili, so you should have some good results.


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## shrimpo (Aug 2, 2009)

Took some pictures of the YBRR before the eggs hatch...almost there.


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

those are close prob any day it looks like


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

I'm really hoping you succeed with this breeding!


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## shrimpo (Aug 2, 2009)

I am aiming to get a strain with red tail and carapace and tense yellow tissue, in the meantime no luck so far for the BBRR.


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

Crossing my fingers for your yellows to succeed!  They are really unique.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Step back gal, I'm first in line!


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

I bow to your better shrimping skills, Soothing.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Lol


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## 0live (Jun 8, 2013)

I'm hoping to start on my BBRR endeavor.. but Navigating this thread for what everyone has tried is difficult. 

I think I remember Blue Velvet + Red Rilli being discussed.. but I don't know if gender matters for color phenotype. Any input? Has everyone just scrapped this?


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Nope. Still working on it, but progress is slow. I did fire red x blue rili x rr crossings and have continually been selecting best BBRR x fire red.

Usually cherry shrimp follow mom's color genetics, but go ahead and try it and report back.


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## shrimpo (Aug 2, 2009)

I got shrimplets today from the YBRR shrimp, it looks like they already showing the rili pattern but it is too early to tell.
This picture is showing one of them to give you an idea.


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

:::watching the little shrimplet grow:::

Congrats on the new babies!


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Crossed fingers as well!


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## serenityfate (Jan 29, 2014)

Hi, anyone got any spare blue rillis they can share so I can try this experiment, I'll pay for shipping.. Pm me thank you!!


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## shrimpo (Aug 2, 2009)

Update:
The YBRR is berried again, she was paired with a Rili that has clear/bluish mid section as suggested by Soothing.
The F1 are all red at this moment with Rili patterns on most of them, as they grow a little more I will post another pictures, not sure if they are going to stay red.
Below are some pictures of F1, their father (yellowish) and the one that she got paired with.


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## Kehy (Feb 5, 2012)

Looking at some shrimplets in my fiance's tank (really a cull tank, LOL), and I noticed I had the standard RRs, BBRRs, BRs, and a couple yellows and yellow blues (yellow shell, blue flesh). Oh, and some clear-whites that look perfectly healthy. Looks like momma got busy, LOL. I actually thought I'd pretty much lost out on the blue shrimp, but looks like I've been thrown a bone. 

I just can't decide which colors to use. Obviously the BBRRs are keepers, but what about the others? There are only 1-2 females that the babies could have come from, both RRs, and all except 1 male are RRs. All my shrimp are from RR/BR/BV mixes, so attempting to sort out genetics would be...fun.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

have pics of the yellow blues?


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## ren (May 19, 2010)

Strange question how doesthe yellow come about in a YBRR? Is it just super faded red that some how dispersed throughout the shell making it look yellow? I actually have a 2 or 3 of them. Does anyone have like a dirty YBRR with a tinge of blue?


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## shrimpo (Aug 2, 2009)

ren said:


> Strange question how doesthe yellow come about in a YBRR? Is it just super faded red that some how dispersed throughout the shell making it look yellow? I actually have a 2 or 3 of them. Does anyone have like a dirty YBRR with a tinge of blue?


 The ones I got doesn't look like faded red, the male has clear shell and slightly yellow flesh.
Could you post some pictures of the ones you got?


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## Kehy (Feb 5, 2012)

Soothing Shrimp said:


> have pics of the yellow blues?


I may have been mistaken, I looked for yellows today, but all I could find were blues with yellow tints. I'm guessing all those will fade to pure blue instead of the blue-yellow mix, but it's still odd that there are some that started pure blue, some that were red and turned blue, and some that are the yellow-blue that will become blue.


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