# Identiying cause of algae



## brunoza (Dec 4, 2016)

Hi everyone, I am having serious algae problems in my first planted tank. I am from the african cichlid side of fishkeeping but have been seriously bit by the planted tank bug. 

This is my setup:

*Tank size:* 60cm x 30cm x 30cm (15 gallon)
*Substrate:* ADA Aquasoil Amazonia
*Lighting:* 1 x 30W LED Floodlight (Color temperature: 6000 - 7500K, 2850+ lumens)
2 x 10W LED Floodlight (Color temperature: 6000 - 7500K, 900 lumens)
Photoperiod: 7 hours (on a timer)
*CO2 :* Scape Liquid Carbon (local product, 2.5% glutaraldehyde)
*Ferts:* Scape complete( K-1.0%, Mg - 0.39%, S - 0.5%. Mn - 0.039%, Cu - 0.005%, Zn - 0.002%, B - 0.004%, Mo - 0.002%, Fe - 0.07%, Cl - 0.9%, P - 0.10%, N - 1.4%)
*Plants:* Glossostigma elatinoides and Hemianthus Micranthemoides (Glosso is very minimal, going to plant lots more after H202 treatment with intention of forming a carpet).
*Livestock:* 10 Neon Tetras

Dosage instructions on the products: 1ml per 50 liters (13 gallons) per day.

I plan on moving the tetras to another tank and doing a full tank H202 treatment. But I fear the algae will be back in no-time again so I want to identify the cause and sort that out. Even after a huge water change and manually removing the algae, it infests the tank within 10 days. Unfortunately, I can't pinpoint the issue... I don't know if I should lower/increase the lights, increase/decrease C02 or stop/increase dosing ferts. I plan on replanting glosso after the H202 treatment (I want a glosso carpet).


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## 678kirandesai (Jan 25, 2017)

I think the main cause is lights... 7hr photoperiod is ok but 50w light for 15 gal water seems very high... That too led lights.. led flood lights are brighter than the t5 lights or CFLs
2watt /gallon should be more than enough...


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## brunoza (Dec 4, 2016)

thanks for your input. Do you reckon the 30W floodlight alone would suffice? or would that itself be too much light?


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

I would try just the flood light (at present height) after removing all the algae I could manually at seven hour's a day.
Would also consider macro nutrient's for plant's in addition to what appear's to be largely trace mineral's being used now.
I have had good success with Macro/micro package from Planted Aquarium Fertilizer - Home
Just dose as directed,and feed fish one a day (for phosphate's)
Would continue with liquid carbon supplement as direction's call for even after reducing light intensity.
Might would consider Monte Carlo as carpet type plant which may perform better.


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## brunoza (Dec 4, 2016)

Thanks roadmaster, I am going to do as you suggested. Will report back in a couple of weeks! Thanks again.


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## 678kirandesai (Jan 25, 2017)

brunoza said:


> thanks for your input. Do you reckon the 30W floodlight alone would suffice? or would that itself be too much light?


I would suggest ... For the time being only use the 2 10watt leds .. with 6-7 hr photoperiod... Remove all the algae manually... Plant some fast growing hardy stem plants if possible... Once the algae is under control then switch to your 30w light only...

And finally hope for the best.. also lookout for more tips from experienced members here


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

Its always the same thing, too much light, ammonia and nutrients... they are the evil triad.


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## dukydaf (Dec 27, 2004)

Light CO2 nutrients ---- they are the good triad



brunoza said:


> *Tank size:* 60cm x 30cm x 30cm (15 gallon)
> 
> *Lighting:* 1 x 30W LED Floodlight (Color temperature: 6000 - 7500K, 2850+ lumens)
> 2 x 10W LED Floodlight (Color temperature: 6000 - 7500K, 900 lumens)
> ...


As others have already said light is too much, mainly because glutaraldehyde is not an adequate source of CO2 for high light aquariums. The fertilizer also seems a little light, however I would first either lower the light intensity or add a CO2 source before increasing the fertilizers


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## ed.junior (Feb 2, 2017)

Have you cycled your tank? Are you doing regular water changes? ADA AS gives off a lot oh NH4 initially.

Focus on growing the plants, not on fighting algae. When the plants do fine, algae will stop being a problem.

I would add more plants, specially fast growers, like egeria densa. Ceratophylum is also good. Later when your tank is balanced you can remove them.

Excel is good but keep the instructions. And light should be less. You do not have co2, so take it easy. 

You do not need h2o2. Just patience 

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## brunoza (Dec 4, 2016)

Nordic said:


> Its always the same thing, too much light, ammonia and nutrients... they are the evil triad.


howzit howzit! I think I am getting the hang of it now, It did seem like too much light because it didnt visually look natural (too bright).



dukydaf said:


> Light CO2 nutrients ---- they are the good triad
> 
> As others have already said light is too much, mainly because glutaraldehyde is not an adequate source of CO2 for high light aquariums. The fertilizer also seems a little light, however I would first either lower the light intensity or add a CO2 source before increasing the fertilizers


Would I absolutely need a pressurized CO2 system if I do end up going high-light down the road? Would my current light setup (after changing it to 20W) be considered medium light? I have cut down on the ferts, lowered the lights and continued with the CO2 as suggested here.



ed.junior said:


> Have you cycled your tank? Are you doing regular water changes? ADA AS gives off a lot oh NH4 initially.
> 
> Focus on growing the plants, not on fighting algae. When the plants do fine, algae will stop being a problem.
> 
> ...


The tank was cycled before adding fish. I didn't know that about ADA AS! That makes a lot of sense.


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

If you ever planted a seed in a little pot indoors, and then took the seedling and put it right out into the summer sun, it would wilt and die, it has not yet developed the ability to deal with the naked sun.
Our tanks are like this too. Newly planted cuttings and sprouts are growing roots and bulking up in mass, Many people make (in my opinion) the mistake of using the same light intensity and photoperiod for a newly planted tank vs an established one.
In an organic system, there will always be ammonia, even if it is consumed by bacteria eventually. Ammonia and light are the two things needed by algae spores to develop into algae.So after two weeks the plants start growing but now it is covered in algae and you have green spots on the glass.


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## dukydaf (Dec 27, 2004)

brunoza said:


> Would I absolutely need a pressurized CO2 system if I do end up going high-light down the road? Would my current light setup (after changing it to 20W) be considered medium light? I have cut down on the ferts, lowered the lights and continued with the CO2 as suggested here.


We can say it in different ways but the answer is yes. If you want high-light with demanding plants pressurized CO2 is the cheapest way to go.
The light would be about medium and should be enough with the current plant selection. You can always lower the light fixture or turn on the other light if you feel the plants are growing great, no algae is present and want a challenge.>

I don't see too many nutrients being dosed to the tank. What I was trying, perhaps too subtly, to suggest in my previous post is that plant need enough of all nutrients too grow well. In fact lack of nutrient creates more problems with plants and algae than moderate dosing. Perhaps counter intuitive but consider that algae grow well at all conc. above 0; plants are less tolerant of lower nutrient levels (more so at high light). Most aquariums you see that have abundant plant growth and low/no algae (yes even ADA style aquariums) have 3 main characteristics : high plant mass from the start, great plant health and lots and diverse algae eaters.There seems to be a pattern here and nutrient limitation is not part of it. Also re-consider what roadmaster had to say:



roadmaster said:


> Would also consider macro nutrient's for plant's in addition to what appear's to be largely trace mineral's being used now.
> I have had good success with Macro/micro package from Planted Aquarium Fertilizer - Home
> Just dose as directed,and feed fish one a day (for phosphate's)


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## brunoza (Dec 4, 2016)

quick update: All the leaves on my HM are gone after reducing the light. They've sort of wilted away. Any idea why?


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

They were not doing well even in the earlier pics. it is a pretty hardy plant, heck I've seen it grow plantlets from leaf borders before.
It does a have a minimum of light without which it will go pale and die.


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## dukydaf (Dec 27, 2004)

I really doubt you would see such a fast change from lowering the light, might just be coincidental. True as Nordic mentions there is a minimum level below which plants do not photosynthesize but this does not mean they just throw their leaves away. 

Leaf melting could be from high ammonia, high excel dose, lack of flow, low nitrogen, low PO4, low CO2. I would start with these suspects. Also keep in mind it usually takes about 2 weeks to see the improvements of any change you make. 

Regards, 
duky


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## brunoza (Dec 4, 2016)

I incorrectly assumed it had to do with lowering the light. I guess i'll just be patient and see what happens. Such a co-incidence though, because its been fine for so long and the only variable that was changed was the lighting. I hope it bounces back! Thanks for both your inputs


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## dukydaf (Dec 27, 2004)

brunoza said:


> I incorrectly assumed it had to do with lowering the light. I guess i'll just be patient and see what happens. Such a co-incidence though, because its been fine for so long and the only variable that was changed was the lighting. I hope it bounces back! Thanks for both your inputs


As we said it could be that, but it is unlikely. That is the thing with aquariums, they have many moving factors even if we do not visually or mentally notice them. Biomass changes, more plant growth or less, a certain nutrient runs out, one type of bacteria grows more, oxygen levels lower because of a release of organics etc. Unless there is a control/mirror aquarium with only one change/difference it is hard to positively prove the effects of one change. 

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## klibs (May 1, 2014)

Nordic said:


> If you ever planted a seed in a little pot indoors, and then took the seedling and put it right out into the summer sun, it would wilt and die, it has not yet developed the ability to deal with the naked sun.
> Our tanks are like this too. Newly planted cuttings and sprouts are growing roots and bulking up in mass, Many people make (in my opinion) the mistake of using the same light intensity and photoperiod for a newly planted tank vs an established one.
> In an organic system, there will always be ammonia, even if it is consumed by bacteria eventually. Ammonia and light are the two things needed by algae spores to develop into algae.So after two weeks the plants start growing but now it is covered in algae and you have green spots on the glass.


this

you are nuking your tank with light. you have like no plants in there / they are clearly not healthy and established.


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