# My 240g build journal, latest update 02/04/08



## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

Ok, since I am still working on transferring pics and editing, etc, I'll post the first few pics I took when I got the tank earlier this year:


Met the delivery truck locally and we slid it into the back of my truck.


I actually off loaded the tank by myself. Please excuse my terribly messy garage. Its literally packed full, took me a good bit just to clear out a big enough spot for the tank. Beefed up my saw horses a little before hand, and they held the empty tank just fine. The tank spent a good many months sitting there in the garage. But I spent many of those months gathering equipment and designing different aspects of the tank.

I was a little rushed when purchasing the tank. I probably should have waited 'till I built the stand so I could move it right in. But I mistakingly assumed that GC only came to Columbus once a year. They had only 1 date on there calender, which was just a couple weeks away when I first noticed. Ends up they come up here often, and just delete the old entry and put the new one in. But because I thought I had but one quick chance this year, I purchased what they had on hand (insufficient time to custom build a tank). If I had it to do over again I probably would have designed the overflows differently, or not at all (and built my own DIY PVC ones). Oh well, I am just going to go with it.

Next to come will be the construction of the stand...​


----------



## jinx© (Oct 17, 2007)

lol...Just seeing pics of your tank in the back of truck has me jealous.

I'll be watching this one.:thumbsup:


----------



## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

That would be my dream tank as well. One day, when the kids are off to college and the house is paid for...

May I ask what you paid for the tank+local delivery? I figure the tank around $600... what was the bottom line?

Your image size is perfect... thanks for keeping it enjoyable.

I would probably go with two big canisters rather than a sump... but that's because I know nothing about sumps. I'll watch your journal closely. <drool>


----------



## mrkookm (Apr 4, 2007)

...................


----------



## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

that's a huge tank, i'll be watching this and please post your DIYs


----------



## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

Subscribed!

Very interested in this build as I am planning an 8 footer myself. Have all the equipment, just need to find the tank.

I'm considering a Glass Cages tank as well and making the 2hr drive down to Columbus for pickup. Would love to see some pics of the tank that show the quality of their work (bracing, overflows, etc).


----------



## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

Wasserpest said:


> That would be my dream tank as well. One day, when the kids are off to college and the house is paid for...
> 
> May I ask what you paid for the tank+local delivery? I figure the tank around $600... what was the bottom line?
> 
> ...


Yeah I debated for a while about filtration. The sump just had to many advantages, though I can tell you right now I've not saved any money going the sump route, everything figured in the sump probably has already cost me more than two large canisters and I havent got it finished 100% though I do have it started. I also considered a combination, running something like the Ocean Clear canisters or Lifeguard modular filters inline with the return pump. But in the end I've decided to go all DIY. It is quite possible it wont work very well and at a later time it would be easy to hook up an inline canister like the OC in the return.

As far as cost, the tank alone cost $490 at the time (price has gone up since), overflows drilled and installed was like $150, the black covers were $30 each, and drop off charge was like $60. So when it comes to filtration just the overflows are about $210. I really wish I'd not got it drilled to be honest (but still probably use sump with a DIY PVC overflow) would have saved money and tank space. Being drilled though is more reliable though so its a trade off.

I really think you hit the nail on the head when you said


Wasserpest said:


> That would be my dream tank as well. One day, when the kids are off to college and the house is paid for...


I have to admit trying to do this project so far has stressed the wife and myself quite a bit, especially with a little one. Waiting would have been a much smarter idea. Most of the stress has come from all the extra work when doing everything DIY. Had I bought everything and just had to hook a few things up I could have probably got it going in a week.


----------



## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

Some pics of the stand construction:


Starting to build the stand. I am trying to build it so that it can be somewhat easily broken into pieces that will fit in and out of the house easily.



The top taking shape. I know the design is kinda weird, but this is basically going to be able to set on top of the frame of the stand and it will be the part the tank actually sits on.



Building the frame front and back panels. 









Starting to take shape... I did notice however that my design was off for the 'joists' across the top. I designed the columns so that the side sections were a little wider than the center. This was to accommodate the sump tanks. But I wanted solid support running from base to top and the pieces on top were equally placed so I've changed them so the joists line up with the columns.



Here you can see what I was talking about in the last pic. I relocated the cross pieces directly over the columns. I'd also like to point out that bit on my drill. One handy piece... it drills and countersinks with one end and a simple flip and the other end has the screwdriver. A simple thing like that can save a lot of time and hassle. With this lumber you probably dont need the countersink, but I use it on other projects to.




​


----------



## mpodolan (Mar 27, 2007)

Nice work on that stand! Those bits are excellent time savers.


----------



## TheOtherGeoff (Feb 11, 2003)

nice bronco on TSLs


----------



## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

TheOtherGeoff said:


> nice bronco on TSLs


LOL, she's a little rough right now but thats another project...


----------



## JenThePlantGeek (Mar 27, 2006)

Subscribed roud:

Looks great so far - I'm totally jealous!


----------



## Flopster843 (Aug 21, 2007)

Sweet setup. BTW, Nice Bronco.


----------



## tazcrash69 (Sep 27, 2005)

Loving the DIY. And you are right, a simple bit like that can save you lots of heartache.


----------



## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

Im subscribed, looks fun.


----------



## newshound (May 9, 2005)

i'm seeing double...again :icon_eek:


----------



## RoseHawke (Mar 10, 2004)

I'm sorry, but you know the first thing I "saw?" The *snow *in the first picture :hihi:! I haven't seen any snow in about 15 years now.

I'm subscribing too. I absolutely adore DIY threads with LOTS of pictures !


----------



## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

RoseHawke said:


> I'm sorry, but you know the first thing I "saw?" The *snow *in the first picture :hihi:! I haven't seen any snow in about 15 years now.
> 
> I'm subscribing too. I absolutely adore DIY threads with LOTS of pictures !


Yeah I took that pic at the end of January this year. Can't believe its taken me so long to get the project rollin'. They get a little snow here in central Ohio but not anything like were I grew up in upstate NY. Here I use a leaf blower and broom to clean my driveway most of the time while its snowing.

Thanks for all the kind words all, I will definitely take lots of pics along the way of everything I can.


----------



## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

RoseHawke
that's the same thing i saw too lol and it's christmass next month.


----------



## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

More stand pics:


I didn't really take into consideration the overflows when I built the stand. Nothing major, but I needed to cut out a section for the plumbing and bulkheads. The piece isn't weight bearing really so no big deal.



The whole thing built & disassembled to move inside. The front and back separate, the top comes off, and you can also see the plywood backing and the MDF I'll lay across the top.



Most of the pieces in the house. Sorry its messy! I guess I was too excited to get the tank into the house... will have to clean up a bit. 



Getting it all put together.



My son is rather excited that I built him a new playhouse. 



I just wasn't sure if 2 2x4's was going to be strong enough for the columns. Remember we're talking about over a ton of weight, probably around 2,500 lbs. I'd guess. I figured it would be easy to add a 3rd 2x4 to the front, spanning between the 2x6 base and 2x8 top. That would also turn the 2x6's and 2x8's into load bearing pieces. 



Since I was adding the extra piece after the fact, I cut each one so that it was a very tight fight so as to be useful for support. Now I basically have the equivalent of 8 4x6 columns. No worries now.



Everything is in place, 3/4" foam will cushion the glass-bottom tank. I am actually going to cover up the frame with tongue and groove later. I just need to get the tank out of the garage to have the space to work on the finishing pieces.
​


----------



## Cattius (Nov 5, 2007)

Awesome project you have going here. When I get my own place I'll probably build my own stand as well for a future monster tank. I'll be watching your progress and good luck.


----------



## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

subscribed. This is going to be sick!


----------



## skeletor121 (Dec 20, 2004)

I am definitely keeping an eye on this one. I just got a 150 gallon tank (used) that is drilled for overflows. It came with a 40 gallon sump. I am still trying to figure out the whole filtration thing since it will be my first setup with a sump.


----------



## Urkevitz (Jan 12, 2004)

I just viewed a pic of your growout tank, the plants are gonna unbelievable in your new tank.


----------



## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

Cattius said:


> Awesome project you have going here. When I get my own place I'll probably build my own stand as well for a future monster tank. I'll be watching your progress and good luck.





styxx said:


> subscribed. This is going to be sick!


Thanks Cattius and styxx!



skeletor121 said:


> I am definitely keeping an eye on this one. I just got a 150 gallon tank (used) that is drilled for overflows. It came with a 40 gallon sump. I am still trying to figure out the whole filtration thing since it will be my first setup with a sump.


Well, this is technically my first sump setup as well. I've already redesigned the whole filtration setup like 3 times. Think finally its going to work the way I want now though.



Urkevitz said:


> I just viewed a pic of your growout tank, the plants are gonna unbelievable in your new tank.


I hope so!


----------



## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

Painting the tank. It was my first time painting a tank so I decided on latex that would come off easy. 



The first couple coats went on very thin. The pic doesn't really show it well, but I was really worried how many coats it would take. I didn't take any more pics till it was done but it was like 6 coats.


.....and finally a few days later:

Tank is finally out of the garage and on the stand! It was a bit of a production getting it from garage to family room despite the move being only about 25 foot. There were 4 of us in all, but the hallway was to small for anyone on the sides. Two of my friends actually carried it all the way through the hallway themselves. That was a little nerve wracking. I had some rollers for the floor I figured we could roll the tank, but they wanted to carry it themselves rather than have to set it all the way down and pick it back up again from floor level.



Another pic for size reference. I'm placing the bulkheads in the overflows. Definitely not going to be easy to reach the bottom when completed, but doable. I wont be doing any low growing plants that will need frequent pruning. 

The stand did end up being a little taller than I had envisioned, which will make in tank maintanence a bit harder. I think I will build a sort of scaffolding that can be setup quick when I need to get into it.



Bulkheads in. Used schedule 80 1" and 1.5" on both overflows. Just 4 of those bulkheads is over $50. Plus two bulkheads I got for the sump tank put my order like around $75 just for bulkheads. These parts do add up quick. ​


----------



## aquaman3000 (Oct 21, 2006)

It's looking great! With that much space, you are going to have a real eye popper when planted. Maybe I missed it, but what is the height of the stand?


----------



## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

sweet! Subscribed.


----------



## natx (Jun 6, 2006)

Are eight 54 watt bulbs going to be enough to grow anything in a tank that deep?


----------



## esarkipato (Jul 19, 2005)

W.O.W. :hihi:

It was hard to tell how big this thing was until you were standing next to it. Nice work!


----------



## Harsh (Jan 14, 2007)

^ exactly what i was going to say.


----------



## RoseHawke (Mar 10, 2004)

Jeez :icon_eek: ! That thing's a monster! Judging by the soffit above the tank I assume this is in a ground level den with a nice, thick, concrete floor :hihi:.


----------



## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

*great work!*

This thread is reminiscent of medicineman's tanks...extremely large, well documented and impressive. Keep up the good work and as always, I would humbly suggest more pics! lol. I think natx has a point. I'm wondering if this type and quantity of lighting is going to be sufficient...


----------



## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

aquaman3000 said:


> It's looking great! With that much space, you are going to have a real eye popper when planted. Maybe I missed it, but what is the height of the stand?



Well I hope I don't disappoint, although it will be high-tech, it probably wont be show quality lush carpet with rare plants or anything... as I stated earlier its mainly going to be stocked with tough hardy plants that hopefully my loaches wont destroy. In my 75g I haven't had any problems yet thats why I am hoping I can continue to have loaches and plants. Its going to be heavy on ferns, mosses, cyrpts, swords, crinum. I am going to attempt some groundcovers and see what happens. I have some marselia q and also going to try some b. japonica.

I said the stand did end up being taller than I anticipated (2nd pic up) but I didn't give a measurement. So for the records its 39" to the base of the tank (including foam, etc.). I have yet to add the finish to it, and there will be a sort of sill around the top also that will hide the tank trim on the bottom. So the apparent height will be taller, about 41.5" but the tank will still be 39".



natx said:


> Are eight 54 watt bulbs going to be enough to grow anything in a tank that deep?


Well its not really super deep. I've seen folks with 30-31" deep tanks (I have one also, 150XH 4'x2'x31" but never used it yet, got this tank instead). My tank is technically 25" deep, water level will be set about 1.75" less than that due to the overflows, and an average 3" depth of sand. Tom and others have always held that on larger tanks 2wpg is plenty.
But... I am actually overdriving the 54W bulbs. I decided on using an IceCap VHO ballast (660x2) which I have mentioned in a few other threads. IceCap claims the 660 ballast will drive 4 54W bulbs up to 80-85W. So thats a total of 640W-680W which is 2.6-2.8WPG. This will be in two banks and I hope that running each alone (1.3-1.4wpg) with a noon full power overlap will suffice. I'll have to experiment with the timing and overlap to get it right. Remember, a lot of my plants aren't going to be high light demanding. And I am also using IceCap SLR reflectors which are about the best out there I have heard of so I hope lighting wont be an issue. I've never been a super high light kinda person, I already dose a bit higher than EI in my 75g and thats with <3wpg T8's and no reflector other than white canopy. I want to keep trimming to a minimum so a little slower growth is fine with me, as long as I can keep it all balanced and healthy.



RoseHawke said:


> Jeez :icon_eek: ! That thing's a monster! Judging by the soffit above the tank I assume this is in a ground level den with a nice, thick, concrete floor :hihi:.


Thanks Cindy! Yeah its the 'family room' w/ slab floor underneath. That soffit you noticed... I actually just got done running power, co2, cat3, cat5, and water drain and fill lines that will all be for the tank. The utility room is on the opposite side of the room so it wasn't to hard. I just wish it was on the other side of the same wall the tank was on, but that just wasn't doable the way the room was set up.



styxx said:


> This thread is reminiscent of medicineman's tanks...extremely large, well documented and impressive.


Medicineman has awesome tanks, I doubt this will be as nice with a more limited variety of plants. I've read over his 260g tank threads many times and also the pond. Its top notch stuff. :thumbsup:


----------



## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

OK, time for something other than tank/stand pics. Here is the driftwood I ordered from Manzanita.com. I ordered the large aquarium bulk pack. Probably will only use a quarter of it, but then I can pick n choose which ones I want, and have some left over fro other tanks or trade/sell.





To soak it, I just got a couple big totes out, filled with garden hose, and changed the water every few days. Soaked for a total of about a month outside this summer.


​


----------



## will5 (Sep 30, 2005)

Wow i wish i could have a tank that big. *Subscribe** :thumbsup:


----------



## dekstr (Oct 23, 2007)

Subscribed!

The tank is massive! Can't wait to see what you'll do with it!

If you have any driftwood leftovers, and you don't mind shipping at a decent price to Canada, remember me!


----------



## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

Thanks Will and Dekstr!

Here are a few miscellaneous plumbing pics:


Various plumbing parts. This is actually a fraction of what I ended up using (partly because I ripped out half of the plumbing 3-4 times because I've changed the pumps). I bet I have $200+ in just pvc parts. Sickening really, and I could have gotten by with a lot less had I had a good design to start with, oh well.




Durso style standpipes. Seems to be the common way to make a standpipe with lower noise and less co2 loss. After I made these I found there was a couple other methods too, the stockman standpipe and also a totally silent but touchy setup that draws no air (complete siphon) the Herbie Method. I'd have tried that if I hadnt already done most the plumbing. Maybe next time.

Spraybars:

Mocking up some spraybars. I was undecided on how to plumb the returns and eventually decided on spraybars that crossed the whole tank nearer the bottom. The idea is since the intake is at the top (overflows that skim the surface) I want a good current coming from across the bottom then up to the top. On the little space between the overflows and the ends I also ran a smaller vertical spray bar just so there was a dead spot. 



Painting them black so they disappear against the black background (I hope).

Hopefully tomorrow or soon I'll post the rest of the plumbing pics. I have it pretty much complete just working on getting the tank full and running, and uploading pics yet.​


----------



## longah (Nov 17, 2007)

crazy loaches said:


> Spraybars:
> ​


 
How will you break the siphon when the return pumps shutoff? I tried this once and the only way to stop the siphon was to drill a large hole toward the top - and then that kind of defeats the purpose.


----------



## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

longah said:


> How will you break the siphon when the return pumps shutoff? I tried this once and the only way to stop the siphon was to drill a large hole toward the top - and then that kind of defeats the purpose.


Both returns have clear swing check valves inline near the Y after the return pump, and also the spray bar has holes drilled about 1/2" under the waterline (not big holes) just in case the check valves were to fail. I have tested it with the check valves removed and the siphon did break. So I am double protected there.

And every inch of height equally 10g of water so for safety sake i have to leave 5 gallons capacity for drainback (minimum) if the check valves failed and was to rely on the siphon break holes. I'll probably leave closer to 10g capacity free in the sumps.

Oh, and welcome to the forum Longah!


----------



## 2wheelsx2 (Jan 27, 2006)

In!

The final setup should be awesome.


----------



## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

To continue with the plumbing theme I'll start with the sump...​This is what I should have really thought of more before building the stand, so I could have built in specific room for the sump, which I sort of did but took no measurements or even decided how big I wanted the sump. One thing I definitely wanted was the ability to take the sump tank in or out if needed. So on the stand I designed the two outer section to be wider to accommodate this. But I was left with some odd dimensions and couldn’t get a common tank to fit. But I was thinking of just using a Rubbermaid or similar tote anyhow. but I just couldn’t find one to fit the space efficiently until I went to the Container Store. They had about the perfect size to fit the end compartments in my stand - a 33g. Was a little pricey there but decided it was the easiest way to go. I also wanted plenty of volume so I could do water changes out of the sump easily, and since my stand would accommodate two, I decided to go with two, and that would provide the shortest possible plumbing with each sump under the bulkheads on each end. Each sump would have its own return pump. if needed I could shut down one and just use the other too, like for an extended cleaning, etc. The only problem would be balance, so I put a bulkhead in each and connected them together - if one was filling faster than the other the extra would level out through the connecting pipe. Well all this was the original idea, I’ve changed it somewhat since, but will show the pics and explain it as it really happened. 


The 33g tote. Since this is going to be in the cooler room in the house, on slab floor, and against the outside wall, I am insulating everything I can to make it more thermally efficient. So I got some foam insulation and am lining the sump tanks as well as the base and back of the display tank.



The bulkhead I put in the side of each tank to connect them together.


Sump tank in the stand. I lined (but not stapled in place yet) the whole bottom of the stand with heavy gauge black plastic lining to hopefully catch the stray splash of water so it doesn’t soak into the carpet underneath.

There is a small amount of bowing [expected] and I think I will also add some bracing to prevent the bowing later. I cut a slot in the foam in the front and am going to mark the sump level with gallonage marks.

I probably could have custom built the whole thing from acrylic but I was hoping this would save time and money, at least since I wasn’t going to mess with chambers and baffles, etc. The sump is merely a holding tank of water. I plan on putting a large 250 micron media bag over the drain outlet to catch debris, and sort of visible in the last pic I am going to make filter boxes the return pumps will be sucking through, with a large piece of floss and some bio media inside. Hopefully this will be easy to maintain. Time will tell. And I apologize if this looks kind of ghetto rigged, with duck tape and all... lol

​


----------



## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

Oh, and I wanted to say that I know I've been putting out new pics just about daily for a while, but with the holidays and my work schedule I dont know if I am going to get much a chance to work on the tank for the next week or so.


----------



## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

What a monster, the size ref pics really show how big it is.  I'll be watching this one.


----------



## longah (Nov 17, 2007)

crazy loaches said:


> Both returns have clear swing check valves inline near the Y after the return pump,


Interesting. Never thought of that. Do you know what the head loss is on those check valves? Where did you get them?

Thanks,
Aaron


----------



## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

longah said:


> Interesting. Never thought of that. Do you know what the head loss is on those check valves? Where did you get them?
> 
> Thanks,
> Aaron


Very minimal head loss. Of course i am not to worried about loss, my test run the other day I am maxing out the overflows and having to throttle the pump back, more details on that later.

Here is were I got mine from (I think, its been a while): 
http://www.aquacave.com/detail.aspx?ID=479

Also a lot more variety (but more expensive) is marinedepot: 
http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_Aquar...ng_parts_fittings_ball_check_gate_valves.html

They have plain spring loaded check valves at lowes but I dont think they had union ones, they arent clear, and the spring takes a lot more pressure to open. For example the ones I got would open up if you tipped them upside down.


----------



## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

One last update before I'm gone for the weekend... some pics of the filter boxes I am making. The idea here is sticking with the tote theme. I have some mechanical filtration that will be a media bag on the drain outflow in the sump. But I thought about making something like the pond filters, that are just a big filter box on the intake of a fountain pump. So on my return pump I will plumb the intake into a tote that will have a filter floss pad as well as bio media inside. Simple, and hopefully easy to maintain. 

There will be two of these... one in each sump:


Tote with lid cut. 


Return pump is a Quiet One 4000. Used a union for easy disassembly. Intake is plumbed into box and has a T, holes will be drilled around these.


A piece of eggcrate cut to fit perfectly into the lip in the tote.


Some good cheap bio media... pot scrubbers. A 3 pack was under $1.


Completed filter box.

Time will tell how long it takes for the floss to clog, I am hoping to not have to replace it too often. My goal is once a month or longer for maintenance that requires me to actually do something :wink:. If it clogs too fast I might make a larger box. Or the other option I was contemplating was two layers, a more coarse filter pad on top of the floss maybe...



​


----------



## tropicalfish (Mar 29, 2007)

Are you going to use foam when the tank is well developed so you can worry less about cleaning?

BTW when you said "peace of eggcrate...", you spelled "piece" wrong.


----------



## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

tropicalfish said:


> Are you going to use foam when the tank is well developed so you can worry less about cleaning?
> 
> BTW when you said "peace of eggcrate...", you spelled "piece" wrong.


Where? Looks right too me? :wink: 

I am a terrible speller... I copy and paste into word most every post to spellcheck it first. Of course it can't tell you when you used the wrong word if its spelled right.

And sorry I dont understand what your asking about foam?


----------



## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

dude you have crazy DIY skillz.


----------



## tropicalfish (Mar 29, 2007)

crazy loaches said:


> Where? Looks right too me? :wink:
> 
> I am a terrible speller... I copy and paste into word most every post to spellcheck it first. Of course it can't tell you when you used the wrong word if its spelled right.
> 
> And sorry I dont understand what your asking about foam?


Are you going to put foam before the floss?
The foam will take out the larger particles before it hits the floss...
And if you use foam, will you sometimes use foam only? Floss is a pain to wash and replacing it ever so often seems a bit wasteful.


----------



## Tdon1md (Jun 3, 2007)

Awesome project. Keep the pics coming and I'll keep watching. Can't wait for the holidays to be over so you can get back to work............. 👍


----------



## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

Thanks ikuzo and Tdon1md  !



tropicalfish said:


> Are you going to put foam before the floss?
> The foam will take out the larger particles before it hits the floss...
> And if you use foam, will you sometimes use foam only? Floss is a pain to wash and replacing it ever so often seems a bit wasteful.


Tropical... Ahh foam filter pad... sorry I had the foam I used to line the tank and sump on my brain and couldnt figure out what that had to do with filtration :redface: but to answer your question I dont know. I'll just have to see how it goes. Should be piece of cake to add it though, I just dont have any foam now. And for larger particles I am going to be using a filter sock on the outflow of the drain into the sump so I am hoping that will catch the larger debris. And BTW I dont mess with cleaning floss, I bought a 20sq foot roll of it from bigals and been using it for a couple years. On my XP3's I change it every 1-2 months, old one just gets tossed. Now foam pads I rinse, which is often a pain lol.


----------



## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

ikuzo said:


> dude you have crazy DIY skillz.


word. Its ridiculous. If there is ever a nuclear war, I'm headed to his house...lol


----------



## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

Time to finish up the stand. Well... maybe not finish but put some more work into lol! I built the frame of the stand already, with the intentions of just covering up the framing with tongue and groove pine. I am trying to keep it simple and easy to do, as well as the nice country pine look that I enjoy. Here is what I got so far:


Putting the tongue-n-groove together. I cut the pieces to length with my sliding miter saw, put together with some wood glue, and tacked in place with air brad nailer.



Staining the wood, I used aged maple stain and semi gloss acrylic finish.



Haven’t stained the doors yet.



All the staining & finishing done (to the front section). Just need to get the door hardware installed.



My son really likes to help (translate: he throws a fit if he doesn’t get to be in the way) :wink:.



Well, I let the whole thing sit in the garage to long before installing and some of the pieces warped/expanded and a couple of the doors don’t fit right. Off to the saw...



I hate having to put a finished piece back through the saw...



Cabinet locks were a must for me...



All the doors installed and working... along with a light in the stand. Now to rig up some switches so it will automatically turn on.



The stand so far. The front is done, the side panels need stained, finished, and attached yet.​


----------



## tazcrash69 (Sep 27, 2005)

Once again, really nice work. This thread never disappoints. I have to admit knotty pine is not my thing, but it works well with the hardware. 
LOL, the locks are an absolute must especially when you have a helper or 2.


----------



## noresull (Oct 14, 2007)

Man, that is a seriously nice setup! It has given me a lot of ideas for when I go to redo the whole thing!

I also dig your website alot of good how-to's on tesla machines and disc launchers!


----------



## tropicalfish (Mar 29, 2007)

Nice!!

What do you plan on using to heat your tank?


----------



## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

Thanks for the compliments guys!

Noresull - Yeah I've got lots of stuff on my website - seems like the term mad scientist comes up now and then. Most of my projects arent done very well though, I used to never really care much about appearances. And my website itself isnt very eye candy like, just text and pics really. A lot of it is many years old from when I first was learning to do it and its grown so much I havent updated a lot of my old stuff. One day I am going to re do the whole thing nice though, but until then it is what it is. Funny thing was my site was actually down yesterday for the first time in several months. Apparently dyndns.com canceled their free static ip service. No warning, no email, just pulled the plug. Oh well, its temporarily fixed.

Tropical - I havent yet run any heaters in it. I hope to get water in it and get the pumps and sumps running in the next couple days though, and I'll get the temp up and co2 up on it and monitor for a few days. I originally was going to do a 150 as my dream tank and I got two stealth 250's. But I ended up deciding to go a little further and do the 240. But then I thought I needed more heaters, and I didnt need the nice lookin' stealth since they would be in a sump. So I bought 3 400W Theo's. At the time I had only heard good about them, we'll see. I hope I only have to use 2 x 400W and keep the third as a spare. It is a cooler room (mid-upper 60's most of the time) but I am insulating everything I can. Once it gets heated up I hope it wont take much to keep it there - lots of 'thermal mass' with the big tank. BTW I am setting up a Neptune controller and it will be controlling the heaters. I'll just set the temp about 4 or 5 degrees hotter than the controller to make sure they are always on when the controllers turns em on. And if the controller should happen to fail on 4-5* isnt going to boil the fish.


----------



## jinx© (Oct 17, 2007)

Very nice work, and I'm liking the tote filter..that thing turned out slick.

My only concerns for you might be the tongue and groove being glued and nailed. That stuff does alot of expanding and contracting, and seems youve already experienced some. Hopefully it'll calm down once in your house and acclimated. (not used to talking about tanks stands acclimating...lol)


----------



## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

Thanks Jinx... yeah the pine can move a bit. And I am not a perfectionist or I would have done it a bit differently to start with, so I dont think I'll have any issues. But if something major were to happen to it, should be easy enough to rip off and do something completely different since its just a covering over top of the framework.


----------



## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

tazcrash69 said:


> Once again, really nice work. This thread never disappoints. I have to admit knotty pine is not my thing, but it works well with the hardware.
> LOL, the locks are an absolute must especially when you have a helper or 2.


I agree, I can't wait to see this monster planted!


----------



## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

*Pumps*
This has ended up being a big ordeal for me. Originally I didn’t want to spend big bucks on pumps. And under a few good reviews I bought two Quiet One 4000 pumps, one for each sump. Each would go to its own spraybar. They are rated 1017gph and max head of 10.2'. With head loss, I figured both of them combined should be pushing 1,000gph into the tank, which is on the low said of what I thought would be acceptable.

Here is a pic I'll repost of the QO4000 and a simple DIY filter box:


Well, being new to big tanks and wanting decent flow, I was a bit surprised how little flow I was getting out of my spraybars. Maybe it has to do with how the flow is dispersed across the large spraybars, or the size of the holes not big enough or too big, not sure. The overflows were only trickling, with dry spots between each tooth. I decided an upgrade was needed, direly.

So I looked at the rest of there models... and stepped up to 2 QO6000's. This would allow me to keep the same configuration as the 4000's, but get a few hundred more gph. Well, I was again sorely disappointed. I couldn’t even feel any flow placing my hand in front of the spraybars about 5". And the noise level was worse, the 4000's were pretty quite, these were borderline for me. And they had big inefficient looking paddle style impellor and a very inefficient power rating. Still was only trickling over the overflows. So back to looking. I decided to go a different route, one bigger more efficient pump. The QO9000 had 2328gph rating and only 145W (compared by 2x 110W for the 6000). It had a much more efficient looking turbine shaped impellor. So hoping its design was much more efficient, I decided to go that route and re-do all my plumbing to accommodate a single pump instead of dual. 


QO4000 next to QO9000

Now the big question, had I finally found a good pump? No! The flow rate was good, in fact it was exceeding the capacity for the two sumps to balance each other out since the pump was just in one. Still not blowing anything away in the tank but acceptable. The problem was noise! It wasn’t bearable really. Quite disappointed. Maybe it was a fluke? I researched the pump online and found many saying the same thing (should have searched first) so I figured I didn’t get a fluke. Gee whiz I am not having good luck, and wasting money in plumbing by ripping glued pvc out and replacing. This time I am going to get a good pump! I researched for a quite, high flow, reputable pump. Reefcentral had lots of info for this. I decided on a Sequence Reeflo pump, the Snapper model. It had a 2400gph rating and amazingly only 98W! It had a very efficient looking impellor design and the folks at reefcentral seemed to think it was very quiet and reliable. After searching for the best deal though, I ended up purchasing its bigger brother, the Dart, since it was only $10 more. The Dart is rated at 3600GPH and 160W (145W typical). Here is its flow chart:
http://www.reeflopumps.com/images/750_Dart-adjustable-chart.gif


QO4000 next to Sequence Dart. Big difference!

Now to re-do the plumbing again...
Since this was an external pump with a very large 2" intake, it called for a complete re-do on the plumbing. I had to get and install two more bulkheads for the sumps, I used 1.5", with double unions, and tee'd them with a double wye fitting into 2".


I tried to scavenge what I could from my previous attempts, which led to some unsightly parts, and some odd mismatches but oh well. If I were to start from scratch it would look much better.

Now I get good flow, still not like placing your hand in front of a powerhead when placed in front of the spraybar, but its moving the water throughout the tank well. And its pushing a lot of water over the overflows. Even with the spraybars near the tanks bottom I get rippling all over the surface. Hopefully it wont be offgasing too much that I cant maintain co2 levels. Will be testing that soon.

However I have created another problem that will soon be fixed. With all this flow (even backed down a little) the sumps are now bubbling like a hot tub with the jets turned all the way on. Pump is quiet but now the sumps are gurgling/bubbling like mad! So I am now working on fixing that, using something I saw on reefcentral, basically using a T rotated 90* so flow comes in center, bubbles come up and water goes down, with a vented cap.
​


----------



## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

*New Filter Boxes*
After getting the much larger Sequence Dart pump I was really thinking my filter boxes were going to be too small. And also since they were plumbed into the QO pumps with much smaller plumbing I'd have to re-do them anyhow. But that’s OK, I'll set them aside for a future smaller tank that might use the 4000's. 

I debated different sizes and shapes and ultimately decided on a similar box but one just slightly not as long and a little deeper. I am going to vertically orient them and put two back to back in each sump. So there will be 4 of them to spread the flow across. So basically the same design as before, but twice as many of them:


I cut the top out with a dremel and spiral saw bit.



I liked these boxes since they had a real deep lip around the lid that would help seal between the floss and lid.



Marking where I need to cut out for the plumbing.



Cut it out with a hole saw bit in my hand drill.



After gluing the endcap on, I started drilling holes with my drill press into the end which will be inside the filter. 



More potsrubbies. These boxes hold 1/3 more scrubbers, plus there are two more boxes now. 



These boxes weren’t quite as square as the others, took a lot of trimming to get the eggcrate to fit right.



Floss cut to fit top. I also made a simple template the shape I need out of cardboard so I can cut them out easier next time. Sorry blurry pic.



Completed filter box.



One box installed. They are just press-fit into the wye, hopefully that will suffice. You can also see the co2 line I run through a small hole in the cap of the wye.



Two boxes installed per each sump.



Another view of the filter boxes installed in the sump tank.

I think I am finally done with gosh darn plumbing!!! This better work! lol.

​


----------



## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

CL,

Your stand looks fantastic! When I started reading the beginning of the thread I was impressed with the structural integrity of the stand, but I was thinking that the outer appearance might have a DIY look. Your carpentry skills are way above average. I love the look of the stand. The only problem I see is you having to get inside the tank for maint work and planting. That is the finest pine stand that I have ever seen.

Are you going to build a matching canopy?


----------



## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

BSlayer... thanks for the compliments. The stand is fairly easy to make, no fancy carpentry really. And it is still not completely finished. And I've already thought of things I'd do differently, like running the doors all the way from bottom trim to top trim, that way you would see the horizontal lines and the doors would be kind of hidden. But not changing it now. The openings are large enough even with the doors installed I can pull out the sump tanks, so dont think I'll have any issues with accessibility. But believe it or not I am running out of space in that stand... the bulky framework chews up a lot of available space. 

And yes, I'll be making a canopy to match. 

I wanted to work on that soon, but having trouble deciding on how exactly I am going to do it. I have built the framing for the lights, two racks of 4 T5HO bulbs each. I was originally going to make it in two section so one side could be completely opened up, and also easier to take off the tank. But the two light sections are tethered together due to the way I wired the ballasts. So I think its just going to be a single 8' canopy. Before I start building though I need to decide how its going to be vented. I got some fans I am going to use but cooling 8 foot of overdriven T5HO takes some special consideration. Looking for some suggestions. Hold on a sec I am going to get some info and make another post... [edit] on second thought I'll make the post in the lighting section.


----------



## tropicalfish (Mar 29, 2007)

Very ingenious! 

Why is your heater so high up?


----------



## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

Thanks Troipical. There is no water in there - heater is just stuck there to get it out of the way. Dont want any chance of it melting the sump tank, so will attach it to something inside, and away from the sump walls.


----------



## aquaman3000 (Oct 21, 2006)

Do you have a guess on how much flow you are actually getting now after head loss?


----------



## mrkookm (Apr 4, 2007)

............


----------



## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Man, that new pump looks serious, wish I could have said earlier on that everything happens for a reason.  Nice to have all the headaches documented for the rest of us though. I think if I ever setup a huge reef tank, I'll just get a single horse hayward pool pump or something, lol. 

The only thing I'm second guessing is the 2" (1.5?) suction placement on the boxes, I probably would've centered it or restricted the inflow to come in at the top, but that pump looks like it's going to pull the whole box lid in. :icon_lol:


----------



## kunerd (Jul 19, 2005)

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Just started reading your thread and so hoped it was all finished up. Need more pictures. That tank looks awsome along with the stand:thumbsup: 
Also nice website you have. Lots of stuff i didnt understand but seeing videos of things flying around i do understand. Man that tesala cage looked way cool also. What was your electric bill like?:eek5:


----------



## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

LOL^ I think I am going to burn up my camera for you guys that keep demanding more pics! :hihi: 

I hope to get it planted very soon though! Just getting over being sick for the week, and have to work this weekend so hopefully I'll be back at the tank next week. And Kunerd, most of all that high voltage stuff is something I do for a very short time, no effect on power bill... nothing compared to what this tank will run me (800W lights, 700W lights, 150W pump, an extra 300g or so per week on the water/sewage bill... you see how this is starting to add up...). I have made several tesla coils, not sure what you meant by tesla cage, just a type I assume. For some twisted reason I find 4 foot long bolts of lightning that continually arc out into thin air fascinating roud:! I havent done any tesla coiling in many years though, all that stuff was when I was in college like 97-00. The magnetic pulse launchers I am still working on though... with a goal of producing a handheld EM Pulse riffle that can attain ballistic velocity. I'll start back on that project after this year long tank project is done.

jaidexl - I know what you mean about centering the intakes. But if I were to center it perfectly center it would be rather high - limiting how low the water level could get until the pump would run dry, thats one reason I put it all the way at the bottom since I'd like to do the water changes without having to shut the pump down. After I stirred up the sand the other day and made the water cloudy I did notice that the filter pads got evenly discolored at least. There really isnt any noticeable suction though... even at an estimated 1500gph or so, when distributed over 4 1'x1'(avg) intake areas is pretty dispersed. In fact the sump tanks seem to be stagnant to the point I may include a powerhead to circulate the water a bit and make sure the water is being more evenly heated by the heaters.


----------



## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

To finish up the plumbing pics:


The two 2.5g jugs I will be using as a fertilizer reservoir for automated dosing.



First gen drain silencer. Water comes down the drain from the overflows above, slows down going through the larger diameter adapter, goes into the tee, air bubbles rise to the top of the tee were there is a small vent hole, and the water exits below. This whole assembly is rather heavy so the bottom part is cut to the right length that it rests on the sump bottom and the waterline is near the top of were the water enters the tee. There is only 1 problem with this design, I wanted a filter sock to catch large debris. So I redesigned it below...



I simply added another tee instead, happened to be the perfect hieght, and would allow me to attach a sock to the opening. I plugged the base to direct all the flow out the center by using a pvc pressure cap seated all the way and held in place by a 1" piece of pipe inserted right up to it.



I am going to try to use a large media bag, 250 micron, to trap large debris that might make it down, or fish, etc. The stainless steel hose clamp should hold it in place and provide fairly easy removal for cleaning if need be. The whole assembly can be pulled out so I wont have to reach under water with a screwdriver to access the filter bag.



Another shot of the fert reservoirs, you can see the Tom Aqualifter pump mounted beside them I am going to be using (one tank for micros, the other for macros).



I used clear union swinging check valves to prevent backflow due to reverse siphon upon power failure. There are also holes drilled in the return pipes slightly below the water surface just incase the check valves were to fail. These style check valves literally take no force to open (you can tip them and they open with gravity even).



Float valves for automated water change. These are used in conjunction with a solenoid to prevent accidental overfilling.



I might yet change my co2 injection method but first I am going to try a simple approach, bubbling it into the intake of the return pump. Those are Rena Microbubblers, so I am already starting out with small bubbles, hopefully the pump impellor and the several foot long journey to the tank will mostly dissolve the co2, but a few micro-bubbles would be welcome also. This is the double-wye fitting that goes between the filter boxes on the intake side of the return pump.





​


----------



## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Nice! Those are good check valves, the tension spring ones with screw on unions leak easily, mainly from the floating internal stopper, the swing open ones like yours last much longer IME at work. Less friction = more efficient.

The intake placement makes sense after you explain it. :wink:


----------



## snowman (Mar 17, 2005)

Hummm...This thread is making me miss the 240 I had in college. I now 15 years later have a custom 180 (same tank 6'- not 8') I've had it for about a year and a half and haven't gotten it up and running yet  I'm going to watch and learn (hopefully) from your efforts! I to am a DIY freak...Looks good so far!


----------



## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

Thanks jaid and snowman  

Snowman - I actually was intending to get a 180 and wish I had. The 8 foot length really made it difficult to store and manuever when the time came to move it. Plus my house is rather small so its really out of place lol. The only reason I went with the 240 was that it was less than $100 more than a 180 at the time, so I thought why not. I was looking at all the 4x2 tanks, 120, 180, 240. The 240 was the best deal, and for some reason the 180 was the worse. Oh well. If I had to do it over, and could spend more, my dream tank would either be a rimless standard sized 180 with starphire glass or perhaps something wider front to back like 6'x3'x2'. But I wont setup another tank bigger than 4' unless I move into a larger house.


----------



## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

*Lighting*
Time to start the lighting, this will just be Part I since I am not finished with the lighting yet, just figured I'd post some pics and give some details.

I considered a few different things, AHSupply, MH, and T5HO. I definitely wanted to get a good setup. I wanted an efficient ballast and the best reflectors, minimizing wasted electricity. I didn't mind retro kits, since I will be building a canopy anyway. So I ultimately decided on a kit half way between the cheaper and most expensive I was looking at. It is the IceCap T5 retro kit, and I got two of them for a total of 8 54W bulbs. It utilizes IceCap 660VHO ballasts, which they claim when used on 54W T5 bulbs it will overdrive them to around 80-85W per bulb. For the folks who go buy WPG this gives me about 2.8wpg all on or 1.4wpg with half on. I'm also using IceCap SLR's (single lens reflectors) which seem to do the trick well.

For bulbs I received a variety, including GE Starcoat 6500K, Giesemann 6000K Midday, Giesemann 11000K Aquablue Plus, and UVL 10,000K Aquasuns. Now that I have seen them all I think its a great combination and don't know if I would just choose one or two out of them.


Trying to figure out how I want to position them. This arrangement doesn't waste any light over the overflows. But also doesn't allow the fixtures to be made into separable left and right halves.


This is the basic 4 x 4 arrangement. I ended up going with this for simplicity and so the left and right could be independent*.


This is about how the lights appear to the eye. I just temporarily riged everything up just to verify the bulbs and ballasts work.


Speeding up the shutter and dimming the lights down really show color that isnt quite so apparent to the naked eye.


Here you can see what each bulb is.


Starting to build a frame to hold the lights. I just riveted some aluminum angle together.


Here is the basic frame assembled.


Starting to mount all the hardware on the frame. The waterproof endcaps came with the kit to.


*A minor oversight when deciding on the lighting arrangement. I decided on two groups of four sitting side by side on there own brackets, thinking if I needed extra room to get into one end I could pull one side off. But I forgot I wired the lights to the ballasts such that two lights from each side are on the same ballast. So unless I install some kind of quick disconnect, the two sides are wired together and must stay together. If I were to do it over I'd go for the first pic were there are 3 on each side then 2 in the middle.
​


----------



## Matthew_Machine (Oct 12, 2003)

wow, super nice. I can't wait to see where that goes!


----------



## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

I thought it would be nice to add a table of contents since this thread is getting pretty large. Some folks have done this in the past, but they simply refer to a page number. Well advanced users tend to customize how many posts per page they view so that doesn't work well. So I tried linking to the individual posts. This is back on the first post. If it doesnt act right then let me know, as I am not 100% sure. I also indicated what dates the posts were added. Thanks again for taking a look at my project.


----------



## tropicalfish (Mar 29, 2007)

crazy loaches said:


> I thought it would be nice to add a table of contents since this thread is getting pretty large. Some folks have done this in the past, but they simply refer to a page number. Well advanced users tend to customize how many posts per page they view so that doesn't work well. So I tried linking to the individual posts. This is back on the first post. If it doesnt act right then let me know, as I am not 100% sure. I also indicated what dates the posts were added. Thanks again for taking a look at my project.


I did this for my topic, but I find a problem is that it usually ends up opening in a new window or tab.


----------



## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Cool color combo, they look like light sabers  and nice work showing us the bulb details. Make sure to take a speed shot of the bulbs on the tank too, if you can. I'm going with a 6 x T5 combo next and need all the help I can get at deciding which kelvins to go with for viewing pleasure/color enhancement. Can't wait to see how the fish look at different angles.


----------



## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

tropicalfish said:


> I did this for my topic, but I find a problem is that it usually ends up opening in a new window or tab.


Yes, it does open in a new window/tab (depending on what browser I'm using). Thats just one of those things you cant do anything about (well at least from my experience with firefox, unless someone knows a trick). I usually let it open then just close the original screen/tab.

One workaround is to right click on the link, select copy link location, and paste it in your browsers url. Then it will take your current screen there. Havent tried with IE to see if the same options are available. I might make a note of this back with the TOC as well.



jaidexl said:


> Cool color combo, they look like light sabers  and nice work showing us the bulb details. Make sure to take a speed shot of the bulbs on the tank too, if you can. I'm going with a 6 x T5 combo next and need all the help I can get at deciding which kelvins to go with for viewing pleasure/color enhancement. Can't wait to see how the fish look at different angles.


Yeah, I have always liked a variety over just one type of bulb. Once setup, I will take plenty of pics dont worry about that :wink:. I dont have extras though, except for the GE's. But when setup I could replace them all with GE's so you can see how the tank looks with one of the cheaper bulbs (but arguably one of the brightest). I can tell already though that the GE does have a heavy green spectrum, and makes the plain sand look a bit green. Should look great with plants though! And from comments elsewhere the Aquasuns have one of the highest PAR readings so they should be good as well. The Aquablues are there mostly for asthetics, and the Middays are probably the whitest out of the bunch. Unfortunately the place I got the bulbs from shorted me a midday and gave me an extra GE so I only have one and cant get a full tank effect with a midday over each end.


----------



## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Did you do the bulb shopping at DIYReef? The AquaSun looks great, I might get a couple of those. I don't like the greenish light of the GE, just personal preference.

So you will drive 8 bulbs with two Icecap ballasts? I wonder if the Icecap is worth the money over a Fulham, if you don't want to overdrive to 85 Watts. If you do, obviously it is the best option.


----------



## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

Yeah, DIYReef. They had the IceCap retros on sale at the time. And they added on 4 more bulbs with no additional shipping for me, and the bulbs came in 3" PVC:thumbsup: I cant really compare the IceCap to Fulham, and if overdriving the bulbs isnt a concern you might not want to go that way, as for one thing will require some extra cooling to keep the bulbs from expiring early.


----------



## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

Ok, well looks like I wont be finishing the canopy anytime soon so I'll have to put off finishing the lighting and canopy for later on. In the meantime I'll get started on some electrical and control stuff...

*Control & Misc Electrical*


This is going to be the brains of the whole operation... the Neptune Systems Aquacontroller III. I compared many systems, and for the money and what I wanted this is the one I finally decided on. 

Initially I was just going to use timers for everything. But With like a dozen different timers, and the good ones with battery backup, would be cost effective to buy a cheap controller like the AC Jr. Not to mention the added benefits... but the more I thought about it and looked into then I wanted the webserver and all that good stuff so I went with the AC3 instead of the Jr.



I put in a few outlets in the stand. I temporarily put a plug in GFCI... I actually had bought a GFCI outlet but couldn’t find it. I'll probably switch it now I have found it again. 



A couple more outlets on switches. The shoplight is plugged into one until I rig up some door switches. You can see the Neptune socket expansion box which will be for the heaters and run from a power line on a different circuit to reduce load on the main circuit in that room (currently using 800W of heaters, debating on 1200W).



Sorry its not organized yet... but here is the Neptune DC8 that will control the main pump and powerheads, two banks of lights, moonlights, fert dosers, water change pump, and heaters.



A lot of what I wanted to do (automation, centralized co2, etc.) required me running a bunch of lines between the tank and utility room. Easy since the rooms were side by side... well not so much. Had I put the tank on the common wall it would have been a piece of cake. But no, it wouldn’t look very aesthetic so it went on the wall on the opposite side (exterior wall). Besides running all the stuff across the floor, the only 'hidden' way to do it is run everything overhead through the soffit that the furnace ducts run through across that room. So I cut a hole and put in what I call a mud ring (not sure if the plastic ones go by a different name though) which is what’s used for low voltage jacks like cable tv or phone. If I ever move out and rip out the tank the hole can either be patched or a cable tv and phone/ethernet jack installed there. The pic shows a 'fish line' fed through from the utility room side and out over top the tank.



This is all the crap I had to fish through the soffit. It took a little bit of work.



View from the utility room ceiling. What you cant see is the part of the ducting about 10 feet in that was mostly blocking the passage. There was some choice words exchanged between me and the ducting.



Success! Now I have an H2O line, drain line, co2 lines, cat3, and cat5 lines run from the tank into utility room.



I didn’t have to cut a hole in the back of my cabinet to run the lines (so far), everything was able to squeeze through the gap around the overflow bulkhead cutout.



The other side.



Putting fittings on the cat3 and cat5 lines. I had to run cat3 for the Neptune DC8 I have in the utility room which will control co2 solenoids and water change solenoids for now and perhaps some other tank equipment in the future. The cat5 will be an ethernet connection to the Aquacontroller so it can be accessed over the web and so I can record all the data to my computer.



Arghhh! Split pair! lol. Poor lighting and me being a little rusty at putting fittings on meant I had to redo a few fittings.


I don’t have it pictured yet since I am not done but I also spent two days running a cable and cat5 line to every room in the house (all homerun to the utility room and all wall-fished down from attic with dual jacks installed). So don’t complain when it takes the cable guy more than an hour to wire up all your tv's :hihi: it took this has-been cable guy almost two whole days to wire my house.







​


----------



## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Good stuff. What's the washing machine for, RO storage? 



:hihi:


----------



## khoile (Jan 27, 2005)

I want an AC3 too.... I've been good this year, hope the credit card Santa listens.... I know he heard ... :hihi:

Nice setup!

Question, where did you get your plumbing parts... The bulkhead you use, is it call npt threaded sch80 bulkhead? Sorry for the newbie question, I haven't done any of this before and will be doing this for my new tank soon.

Another note, I didn't see the IO Breakout Box for the AC3, how are you going to hook up water level sensor? Also which level sensor are you using?

Thanks.


----------



## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

I'm just curious... Why did you use CAT3 as opposed to CAT5? I would think that the minimum required would be CAT3, but CAT5 should work just as well if not better due to decreased signal loss... no? Just seems like you could use cat5 and only use 4 of the wires. I know this sounds like a stupid question, but I work in a datacenter where we use CAT5e for everything except gig e where we use CAT6. We even use it for analog phone lines.


----------



## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

Looks killer.


----------



## gsd78 (Jan 13, 2004)

Everythings looking great! Lovin all the DIY and picture intensive build threads are always fun to follow. 

Can I ask what made you choose the ACIII over say the ACJr though? I'm looking into a controller for my build and am curious what was the deciding factor in your choosing the ACIII.


----------



## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

gsd78 said:


> Everythings looking great! Lovin all the DIY and picture intensive build threads are always fun to follow.
> 
> Can I ask what made you choose the ACIII over say the ACJr though? I'm looking into a controller for my build and am curious what was the deciding factor in your choosing the ACIII.


Thanks man, to answer your question the main advantages of the AC3 over the Jr that were of interest to me were:
1)ACjr is limited to 12 controlled devices. I already had plans for more than 12... the AC3 is up to 24.
2)an extra switch input I beleive
3)AC3 built in webserver with ethernet connection. ACjr has on serial connection and thats an option
4)I dont believe the ACjr has power failure alert, not 100% sure

In any case, there are plenty more options to choose from and many nicer controllers as well. A guy on reefcentral did a great job of putting together a comparison chart (excel) to compare every known controller on the market. Take a look at http://aquariumcontrollers.com/aquarium-equipment-comparisons.php

BS - I ran cat3 because that was what was called for and I have a whole unused spool of it. Perhaps I should have just used cat5 for additional noise suppression, especially since its operating at a longer distance than the manufacturer suggests, but so far so good. If I do run into any weird issues that is going to be the first thing to check.

GMC - Thanks for the comments:smile: 

Khoile - Take a look at the controller comparison chart - you might find a better controller for your needs. In any case, hope you get what you want :smile: Yeah those are Sched 80 bulkheads. Plenty of places carry them, even the place I bought the tank from. Probably one of the best selections is going to be marinedepot, but I saved a few bucks and got most my plumbing stuff including bulkheads and check valves from Aquacave.

No, I didnt get a IO breakout box. They do look nice and neat but I am not going to spend $40 just to have a simple adapter. The connector is a minidin8 and two pins are the switch inputs and another pin is ground. Thats it. I thought I had a minidin8 cable I could use but couldn't find it. Had to spend almost $1 and get a minidin8 connector and then I just used some cat3 to wire it, which worked well because I wired it into a duplex phone jack and I put the float switches on cat3 as well so they plug into the phone jack. I'll have to take some pics of this when I get a chance.

Jaid - no, the wash machine is actually to wash clothes :hihi: it does make a good workbench too though!


----------



## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

To continue with electrical & control, I'll focus on some of the parts that comprise the automation...


My order from McMaster-Carr, solenoids and float switches for my auto water change setup and water level alarm.



A close up of the solenoids (the quick connect fittings are a separate item). I got the 120VAC version so I can plug em right into the AC3's DC8 power brick.



Can anyone guess what that is? OMG I didn’t realize you could even make a plug that used so many parts! These are minidin8 connectors (I ordered 3 so I had a couple extra). The AC3 uses a minidin8 plug for the switch inputs. They also charge like $40 for the I/O breakout box that allows you to hook up external switches to the AC3. But all it is is 1 ground pin and a pin for each of the two switches, so most just make their own cable. The minidin connectors are like a buck, and well I have all the rest of everything I need already. 



Close up of the float switches.



The housings and bracket I made for the switches. I used a scrap piece of polycarbonate plastic I had and a small butane torch to bend the top, never bent plastic before, but good enough. I also notched the bracket for every 5G for the water level in the sump. I made housings for the float switches out of pvc endcaps.



Completed switches wired into phone jacks. I have boxes of phone jacks laying around and it seemed like an easy way to do it. Also pictures is the minidin8 cable that I made to connect to the AC3. Its also hooked to a phone jack. So now all I need is a regular phone style cord to go between the jack connected to the minidin8 and the other two jacks. I could have used single phone jacks for the switches but didn’t feel like digging around through my boxes to find the singles since I had the duals out.



Completed bracket that will be attached to the sump tank. The upper float switch is mounted to stop my drain pump at a certain level for my daily water change (about 10%). The lower switch triggers the AC3 alarm for low water level and will shut off the return pump and email me. The third level switch will go in the main tank and indicate the main tank is two high, wired together with the last switch so will also set off the alarm function, shut down the return pump, and email me. Basically the last two switches are in parallel.​


----------



## mrkookm (Apr 4, 2007)

...................


----------



## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

O yea... Subscribed. Nice work!


----------



## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

What model numbers from McMaster did you use for the solenoid and float switch, out of curiosity.


----------



## tropicalfish (Mar 29, 2007)

Wow this is awesome...


----------



## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

gmccreedy said:


> What model numbers from McMaster did you use for the solenoid and float switch, out of curiosity.


I'll have to look at my invoice tomorrow - at work tonight so I dont have the numbers handy. They ended up being a little cheaper from McMaster than any aquarium online store like autotopoff, etc that I could find. And they're already going through trials for the last week, working good so far.


----------



## neilfishguy (Dec 16, 2007)

what are you going to stock with? how bout 500 neon tetra lol


----------



## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

Something funny about putting 500 neons in there? :tongue: Not all that uncommon to have lots of tetras in a big tank... take a look at http://www.barrreport.com/fish-planted-tanks/2925-ei-high-fish-loads.html
A 8' tank just 1" taller than mine and it has 500 cardinal tetras, 250 rummynose, 50 emporers...

Well I might put cardinals or rummynose in there but having trouble finding good quality local ones in high quantity.

But the main stocking will be for my loaches... clowns, striata, and possibly another sp not sure (sids or kubs maybe).

For non-loaches its mainly going to be roseline barbs and pearl gouramis.

I also have a team of algae eaters, 8 BN plecs, about a dozen otos, 6 sae's, and 2 flagfish so far.

All the above is in my 75g currently, except I will increase the numbers of some of them when I put them in the 240.


----------



## waterfaller1 (Jul 5, 2006)

When will this tank be done...next year!?!


----------



## mrkookm (Apr 4, 2007)

....................


----------



## AndrewH (Dec 24, 2007)

crazy loaches said:


> I'll have to look at my invoice tomorrow - at work tonight so I dont have the numbers handy. They ended up being a little cheaper from McMaster than any aquarium online store like autotopoff, etc that I could find. And they're already going through trials for the last week, working good so far.


Yeah, I'm using the autotopoff ones and love 'em! Price was a little high, but with the relay already in-line I couldn't find all the parts cheaper.

Definitely a great thread!!! Keep the updates coming


----------



## three105 (Nov 15, 2007)

intense aquarium


----------



## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

waterfaller1 said:


> When will this tank be done...next year!?!


Definitely. Only a year behind schedule! it was last January I got the tank... 



mrkookm said:


> What method did you choose to pull down PH and how is it working?


I am going to be doing more work on the co2 injection. I forget if I already mentioned that or not, but bubbling it into the return pump isnt working well. It works, but I get a ton of too large bubbles in the tank. I am sure its wasting a ton of co2, and on this tank thats something I dont want to do. I believe there are two things working against me for the simple method of bubbling it into the return pump... For one thing the intake on the pump is rather large, I am using two 1.5" lines, and at an estimated 1500GPH the velocity through the 1.5" lines isnt that great so the bubbles might be recombining. Also the pump is a low speed series pump, great for being nice and quiet but poor I believe for breaking up and dissolving co2 bubbles.



gmccreedy said:


> What model numbers from McMaster did you use for the solenoid and float switch, out of curiosity.


Sorry man, still havent got around to finding that invoice. 

Thanks for the comments Andrew and Three


----------



## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

*Fertilizer Dosing*

I haven't had much time to work on anything lately, but here at work I've been crunching some numbers on the dosing routine.

I plan on doing simple EI, and adjusting from that if need be. I was running into some problems though on the simple part. It seems most of the dosing charts don't include tanks this size. I made some posts over on the Barrreport.com and got some mixed answers. Eventually I found a tank Tom had done very similar to mine just a little larger, with similar plant species and also heavy stocking, and used that as a template. What I did was come up with a ratio how much smaller my tank was, and multiply that by all his dosing amounts. He claims the tank was 29 * 29 * 96 + 50g of sump for around ~400g. I figure I am at about 70% of that. Tom reported that he dosed 3X a week: 1tbsp KNO3, 1.5 tsp KH2PO4, 200ml TMG

So, applying this to my tank (70%):
KNO3 = .9tsp daily, 6.3tsp weekly, 9tbsp monthly
KH2PO4 = .45tsp daily, 3.15tsp weekly, 4.5tbsp monthly
TPN = 60ml daily, 420ml weekly, 1.8l monthly (this one is going to be pricey :eek5 

I will be autodosing daily, so I needed to break it down into daily figures. And I am hoping to have a 30 day reservoir on the dosers, so I calculated monthly totals to.

I am definitely trying to automate this part, I know Tom and some others are against automation here, but one of the biggest things I struggle with my current planted tank is dosing it. I have determined it is impossible for me to consistently dose it, I am away to often and work a strange 12 hr rotating shift schedule and am often to tired to even venture to that room of the house  lol. Did I mention I am often very lazy... 

Next thing to do is to test how much my pumps flow in 1 minute (the minimum time my controller can run them).



My first testing showed that it delivered 1 1/3 cup per minute. That is .315 liter or .0833 gal. That works out to exactly 1 gal per 12 doses. So my 2.5 gal jugs would hold 30 days, perfect.

I still have to do a lot more testing for consistency, also things like testing when the jugs are full vs almost empty to see how much it will change. If it turns out not to be reliable enough then no big deal, my pumps were only $10 each (Tom Aqualifters).

[edit, added 01-22-08]
I have calculated out how much my fertilizer usage will be pound-wise. If the info given me from AquariumFertilizer.com is correct, then 1# of these ferts is 1.5 cups, which equals 72 teaspoons. With my dosage calculation above, that equates out to 4.5 lbs of KNO3 and 2.25 lbs of KH2PO4 per year.


----------



## khoile (Jan 27, 2005)

Quick question on the AC3. When you receive it is the temp probe a probe (similar physical contruction to PH) or is it just a sensor similar to many heater unit?

Thanks.


----------



## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

It is a simple, small, maybe 1" long black piece with two wires coming off it. Temp probes dont need to be large or complicated its pretty easy to accurately measure temp. They dont even recommend calibrating the probe since its pre calibrated an supposedly good for life. But the AC3 will allow you to put in an offset on the temp reading if needed.


----------



## mrkookm (Apr 4, 2007)

....................


----------



## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

Ok, this will just be a log style entry, no real progress pics or anything. Just wanted to say that the tank has now been planted for a few weeks and my algae crew is in.

Unfortunately I do not have all the plants I intend to use in the scape yet, and its not a good time of year to be getting them online either. The plants I do have, I have far too few of. So I am using a lot of filler plants, some stems, mostly wisteria from the lfs. 

When I first 'got it running' I jumped the gun a bit. It was before I had a solid dosing scheme. Also I was out of town a lot the first two weeks and didnt have the auto dosers running. As mentioned before I also had some CO2 problems, my bubble rate kept diminishing over a couple days time down to just about nothing. Needless to say I ended up with various forms of algae. BBA and BGA mostly, also a little bit of diatom, GSA, and thread. 

I then did a blackout for a few days as I tried to sort things out. I got a fert routine down (I had an earlier post on that), built a new CO2 reactor, and I cut the lights down. Now, after being on this new routine for a couple weeks, everything is looking much better. BGA and BBA is gone (well tiny bits of BBA left in some places) and the only algae that still appears could be an issue is thread algae, which I had issues with in my last tank.

I am dosing per the dosing 4 posts up, co2 should be consistent ~30ppm (but still wasting some gas due to large bubbles) and my lighting scheme is as follows:

Bank1: 1:30 - 6:00 4.5hrs
Bank2: 5:00 - 9:30 4.5hrs

340W (1.4WPG): 1:30 - 5:00 3.5hrs (Bank1 only)
680W (2.8WPG): 5:00 - 6:00 1hr (Bank1 + Bank2)
340W (1.4WPG): 6:00 - 9:30 3.5hrs (Bank2 only)

Total light cycle: 1:30 - 9:30 8hrs

Since things have been looking good I am going to step the light back up a little, for now just adding an hour into the noon peak, but keeping the total light cycle at 8 (think baby steps): 

Bank1: 1:30 - 6:30 5hrs
Bank2: 4:30 - 9:30 5hrs

340W (1.4WPG): 1:30 - 4:30 3hrs
680W (2.8WPG): 4:30 - 6:30 2hr
340W (1.4WPG): 6:30 - 9:30 3hrs

Total light cycle: 1:30 - 9:30 8hrs

And just for reference the series of tests I ran yesterday show:
Ammonia - 0ppm
Nitrite - 0.05ppm
Nitrate - 5ppm
Phosphate - 6ppm (or more)
KH - 3ppm
GH - 8ppm
pH - peaks at ~7.15 overnight and controller set to 6.1 with CO2
Temp - 79*F

The nitrite is a little concerning, its been like that the few times I've tested it in the last couple weeks. But at least its only the first off-zero color on the chart. I dont know if my low pH is causing an issue with bio filtration, or the fact of the large night/day swing. Nitrates seem to be a little low to me, I'd feel more comfortable with 10-20ppm just so I know its not limiting at any given time. And phosphates seem a bit high... might try and see if I dose more nitrate if phosphate uptake will increase, if not I might cut the dose down. My tap has 1ppm phosphate.

And current stocking list:
-12(I think) Otos
-2 SAE's (I have 4 more that I couldnt catch in my 75g waiting until next attempt)
-1 Flag Fish (had a pair but 1 past the first week in the tank)
-8 BN plecos
-1-2 dozen cherry shrimp, that keep ending up in the sump


----------



## EdTheEdge (Jan 25, 2007)

Subscribed


----------



## ibjhb (Feb 25, 2008)

Subscribed.


----------



## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

Yea, whats going on here....updates please.


----------



## ranjitthepai (May 17, 2007)

same here , the suspense is killing also great DIY skills man , awesome awesome


----------



## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

Sorry guys... havent done much with the tank ever since I finally flipped the switch on. Once it was going my attention has turned elsewhere, especially since a lot of the finish work I need to do outside (build canopy, finish stand, etc.) and its rather cold...

But I have the rest of the week off (well on-call actually) so I might try to do some work, maybe take some better pics of things I havent yet, etc. Just have a large list of things to do around the house as well...

I'll take a pic of it planted soon but it will look like crap lol... I really havent figured out a scape yet and have a lot of starter plants in it still (like almost 1/2 the tank is just wisteria). A lot of the plants I want to use I simply dont have enough of. I wanted a foreground of dozens of Green Gecko crypts but I have 2... and so far in ~2 months they have grown about 2-3 additional leafs each and thats about it :icon_roll. However my moss it taking off, as well as riccia which I dont even know how I got lol. 

I also have to work on some better CO2 reactors, my first 20# tank lasted just a little over 2 months. I like the misting methods but I am still getting too large of bubbles in the tank, most of which just head for the top. I also had several leaks starting out. I'd walk downstairs and hear whistling / hissing a few times lol. I'm thinking about replacing some of the barb connections with compression fittings, but switching the type of tubing from polyethylene from Lowes to colored polyethylene from my tap water filter purchase seems to have fixed the problem so far, no more leaks or lines splitting around the barbs.


----------



## lovinlivebearers (Jan 4, 2008)

I just have to say you are genius of the year! And if you ever get an itch to repeat this in a smaller scale, you can always let me know.  I want you to get done so we can see it with the plants, wood, water and then fish! Congrats on an amazing project!:thumbsup:


----------



## catfishbum (Feb 27, 2008)

el subscribed-o


----------



## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

WOW what an incredible project- it's really awesome of you to take the time to share all those pics and design ideas!

Subscribed and 5 stars for sure!


----------



## LondonDragon (Mar 15, 2007)

Now this is one cool setup, could you do some diagrams with all the equipement on it? Subscribed!


----------



## neilfishguy (Dec 16, 2007)

crazy loaches said:


> 8 BN plecs,


Your tank is going to be poop central. I had a 20g long with 3 BN and if i didnt vaccum, then after 2 weeks it would have about 2 inches of poop. I did a small vaccum like every three days! BN are poop machines.


----------



## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

neilfishguy said:


> Your tank is going to be poop central. I had a 20g long with 3 BN and if i didnt vaccum, then after 2 weeks it would have about 2 inches of poop. I did a small vaccum like every three days! BN are poop machines.


I think he might be OK with 8 in a *240* gal...


----------



## 2wheelsx2 (Jan 27, 2006)

Hahaha...that's what I was going to say. I got 2 BNP's in my 125 and I never see any poop from them. My 10 inch Gibbey on the other hand...now there's a poop machine if I ever saw one, but even then, in a 6 foot tank, you only see it accumulate in low spots. 3 BNP's in a 20 gallon would definitely generate a lot of poop though.


----------



## catfishbum (Feb 27, 2008)

ugh my gibby gives my nightmRES OF HOW MUCH POOP THAT LITTLE SUCKER MADE. i TOO WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOME GENERAL DIAGRAMS, IVE ALWAYS WONDERED HOW SUCH AN ELABORATE SYSTEM WORKS.


----------



## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

LondonDragon said:


> Now this is one cool setup, could you do some diagrams with all the equipement on it? Subscribed!


Yeah I do plan on doing some diagrams... I am still debating on changing a lot of the plumbing again so I'm waiting until the final design. Dont hold your breathe as I am a huge procrastinator :redface: 



lauraleellbp said:


> WOW what an incredible project- it's really awesome of you to take the time to share all those pics and design ideas!
> 
> Subscribed and 5 stars for sure!


Thanks  




neilfishguy said:


> Your tank is going to be poop central. I had a 20g long with 3 BN and if i didnt vaccum, then after 2 weeks it would have about 2 inches of poop. I did a small vaccum like every three days! BN are poop machines.


Yeah I think perhaps you missed the fact this was an eight foot tank? And these are a small varietey of pleco, Ancistrus sp."Pucallpa" which to my knowledge are sub - 5" plecos.

Anyhow, I wont have much time in the near future to work on things. I'll try a few small updates here or there, but I didnt get much done on this rotations off week and my on call week I got called in several times. My next off week is gone - business trip, so that means it will be about 10 weeks until I get some time off really  But I still have a few days off hear and there, hopefully I can get some pics and more work done.


----------



## monkeyruler90 (Apr 13, 2008)

totally amazing thread. i love it

i can't wait for a full tank shot
everything should have filled in by now
wisteria is a total weed

subscribed! and a 5 rating


----------



## MikeS (Apr 27, 2008)

monkeyruler90 said:


> i can't wait for a full tank shot



Me too!!!


----------



## mrkookm (Apr 4, 2007)

crazy loaches,

Whats sup man? Everything ok with the tank and all?


----------



## duzzy (Feb 6, 2008)

Subscribed!


----------



## fishsandwitch (Apr 20, 2008)

update plz!


----------



## badsector (Jun 19, 2006)

update plz!
the pics were all gone


----------



## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

Just thought I'd stop in and say hi... I know its been over a year. Shortly after my last posts we moved house, it was some project moving the tanks, and they were never set back up. I spent the next many months renovating our old house and now working 12hr shifts with almost an hour drive to work each way. maybe someday I'll set the tank back up... oh and sorry about all the pics they were hosted on my own webserver and when we moved out to the country I no longer have high speed internet :frown:


----------



## rwong2k (Dec 24, 2004)

hope you get that tank back up and running shortly!

Raymond


----------

