# Funky Looking Aquasoil Amazonia II



## mpodolan (Mar 27, 2007)

Can you post a pic? AS can be crushed, but you would have to really beat it up to make it look like it sounds from your description. Did it look beat up in the bag?


----------



## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

a lot of the ASA II owners, (including me) are having trouble with it breaking down immediately. Email your provider with photos and an explanation and they'll refund you.


----------



## mpodolan (Mar 27, 2007)

CmLaracy said:


> a lot of the ASA II owners, (including me) are having trouble with it breaking down immediately. Email your provider with photos and an explanation and they'll refund you.


Really? I hadn't heard that. Did they give an explanation for why this was happening?


----------



## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

mpodolan said:


> Really? I hadn't heard that. Did they give an explanation for why this was happening?


No explanation, but a few members in our club just did a huge group order and all the bags are bad it seems. I think it was just a defective batch since this is the first time I have ever heard of it too.

But it literally turns to mud...

And no one really knows whats happening.


----------



## fish-aholic (Dec 23, 2007)

So is it not advised to buy AS at this time?


----------



## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

A couple of members from our club bought some Aqua Soil Amazonia II. It appears there is a problem with the bags they have purchased. A problem similar to roybot73 describes. No one is certain as to what is exactly happening and why it is happening. They have contcted the seller about the problem, and it is in the process of being addressed.

CmLaracy DID NOT participate in the purchase and as far as we can tell his product is not from the batch that is in question. He capped his Aqua Soil with Aqua Soil Powder, so there I believe he is probably some settling making him believe he has a similar problem. It seems any problem with the product happens within hours, not weeks or months.

Up until this point, the incidents seemed relegated to the few bags that were ordered. roybot73, when did you order and recieve the AS II and from whom?

Great thing is both of the major companies we all deal with are really proactive and I am sure they will get to the bottom of any problems as well as remedy them as soon as the can!

Still a great product! Just need to find out what is happening with the batch.


Mike


----------



## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Soooo...

Is this stuff, and my backbreaking, nervewracking planting going to have to be tossed out? I can't see how it _can't_ be.

I'm about ready to throw a brick through the front of this tank.


----------



## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

Momotaro said:


> A couple of members from our club bought some Aqua Soil Amazonia II. It appears there is a problem with the bags they have purchased. A problem similar to roybot73 describes. No one is certain as to what is exactly happening and why it is happening. They have contcted the seller about the problem, and it is in the process of being addressed.
> 
> CmLaracy DID NOT participate in the purchase and as far as we can tell his product is not from the batch that is in question. He capped his Aqua Soil with Aqua Soil Powder, so there I believe he is probably some settling making him believe he has a similar problem. It seems any problem with the product happens within hours, not weeks or months.
> 
> ...


Well, Mike, my aquasoil is fine for one reason, and one reason only. I filled up the tank over a matter of hours, not disturbing a single bit of the soil, and I still havent sdisturbed it since then. Upon testing the substrate with a spoon, I reached in to grab a sample and before I even broke the surface with the spoon the soil I picked up had had turned to mud. My soil is ok because it hasn't been moved since planting, which I did DRY. Any planting I do now turns the substrate around it into mud, and releases brown and red dust into the water, clouding it greatly. Something is wrong with my AS II, and the only way I'll be able to keep using it is if I don't disturb it. A rescape would end in a tank of mud, I guarantee it.

And Jeff Senske e-mailed me back saying that all I had to do was tell him when and he'd refund me.

With the scape I have going now, I'm going to try and stick with this soil, and minimal small rescapes. If anything large needs to be done, I'm going to have to do an Ingo-Style redo, including the substrate...


----------



## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

roybot73 said:


> Soooo...
> 
> Is this stuff, and my backbreaking, nervewracking planting going to have to be tossed out? I can't see how it _can't_ be.
> 
> I'm about ready to throw a brick through the front of this tank.


Yeah dude that's pretty bad, you're going to have to get it refunded... :icon_cry:


----------



## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

I ordered this batch around Christmas, and from Jeff & ADG. I've got a second batch which I recieved a few weeks ago.

The first batch looked to just fine in the bag, and when I set up my hardscape. I guess if it's garbage, I'd just like to have it replaced, although I'm about as p*ssed off as I've ever been right now. Just my luck -- MONTHS of planning, not to mention the cost of this stuff... Down the tubes???

I'm going to send pics and a note to Jeff, and see how we can fix this.


----------



## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

> I reached in to grab a sample and before I even broke the surface with the spoon the soil I picked up had had turned to mud.


Sure, but how much of the mud is the Aqua Soil Powder and how much of it is the break down these other people are experiencing, Chris. Cap a substrate with that Powder and of course when you did into it it appears to be muddy.

Remember, this has happend to then in a matter of hours. In Jens case, he didn't touch the As at all and it broke down on him. Are you showing what is proving to be the tell-tale brick red? How about some photos?


Mike


----------



## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

It looks to me like it was the last of a batch and they bagged it anyways. If anyone is familiar with stone crushing you know what I mean. There is a lot of waste when you do it and maybe instead of eating the loss they decided to mix it in by portions to eliminate waste. 

I would be a bit upset myself, its a lot of work setting a new substrate. You can get refunded for the material but who refunds the time and aggrevation. :icon_roll


----------



## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Just did a quick check of my other two bags (9l & 3l), by dumping a handful of each into my tank -- sure enough they turn to red brick dust almost _immediatelty_. 

Can I leave this tank set up untill Jeff can send me my replacement 2- 9 liter and 2- 3 liter bags, and then pull an all-nighter replanting the stuff in one go?

I was even wondering if he'd express ship (overnite style) the stuff to me. Is that an unreasonable request?

Man, this sucks...


----------



## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

Seems like the problem happens instantly, not over time.

Lets not lose sight of the fact that ADG and Jeff are top notch folks who will certainly take care of the problem as quickly as they are able to! They want you to be happy. It is a real pain, but you want to be sure you don't rush to get more of the same bad batch. I'd think you'll be OK holding the plants in the substrate as it is right now. Just check the water parameters to be sure there are no spikes.


Mike


----------



## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

Momotaro said:


> Sure, but how much of the mud is the Aqua Soil Powder and how much of it is the break down these other people are experiencing, Chris. Cap a substrate with that Powder and of course when you did into it it appears to be muddy.
> 
> Remember, this has happend to then in a matter of hours. In Jens case, he didn't touch the As at all and it broke down on him. Are you showing what is proving to be the tell-tale brick red? How about some photos?
> 
> ...


The powder is the one that ISNT breaking down and IS keeping it's form. Check my post at NJAGC. Parts where I didn't top coat it with the powder, I have the red clay like stuff. And I took the sample with the spoon from a spot that didnt have ANY powder type. the powder type is actually my saving grace with this tank, it's keeping the crappy AS II below it from completely breaking down. In the back left corner by my stems theres no powder type AS, and you can see the results, it looks just like Jens's pictures just in smaller amounts.

Oh and Roybot, I feel for you man, when I found out my AS was bad I was so upset and angry. I also see a complete rescape in the not to distant future...


----------



## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

I just shot Jeff an email with pics. I hope he gets back to me soon...

I'm just gonna keep doing what I'm doing with this tank -- Daily 50% wc, and dose ferts. If/when I get the new stuff, I'll pull a gonzo all-nighter and re-set-up...

At least this isn't my 60p!!! I'd be SUPER p*ssed! Let's hope I get some good stuff to set that one up with!!!


----------



## CmLaracy (Jan 7, 2007)

roybot73 said:


> I just shot Jeff an email with pics. I hope he gets back to me soon...
> 
> I'm just gonna keep doing what I'm doing with this tank -- Daily 50% wc, and dose ferts. If/when I get the new stuff, I'll pull a gonzo all-nighter and re-set-up...
> 
> At least this isn't my 60p!!! I'd be SUPER p*ssed! Let's hope I get some good stuff to set that one up with!!!


Can you imagine how I feel! It's in my 75p that's been growing like a possessed beast for the last month and a half. If I have to re-do it I'm gonna freeaaak ooouuutt!!!! :icon_evil :icon_evil :icon_evil :icon_evil :icon_evil :icon_evil :icon_evil    :icon_evil :icon_evil :icon_evil :angryfire :angryfire :angryfire :angryfire :angryfire :angryfire :angryfire :angryfire :angryfire :angryfire


----------



## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

Lol, the ADA AS II in my tank hasn't self destructed yet. Been up for about 2 months. Hopefully, it will stay intact.


----------



## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Homer, you'd know right off the bat if you had had the bad stuff! It seriously just disintegrates into "brick dust" upon contact with water! Crazy stuff...


----------



## milesm (Apr 4, 2006)

got a 3l bag from ada thailand last October. 

i set up an emersed planting of hc in a 2.5gal tank. couple of weeks later, i cracked one panel so had to transfer to another 2.5. i emptied out the as2 into a bucket and that's when it turned muddy--super cloudy water, fines, and silt, with that red clay stuff showing. fortunately, no where near roybot's (maybe 5% of his), so perhaps i got a better batch. but i can see that any heavy rescaping/rearranging would definitely yield more red clay. how well does the original amazonia hold up under similar handling conditions? 

will have to see what happens after i fill it, should be another month or two before i do so.

unfortunately, since i bought it in thailand (where the terms refund, replacement, and exchange do not exist), there is no way i'll be able to get it replaced if it proves to be defective. i'll be going back in may, i'll see if they have the original as.


----------



## fish-aholic (Dec 23, 2007)

roybot73 said:


> I just shot Jeff an email with pics. I hope he gets back to me soon...
> 
> I'm just gonna keep doing what I'm doing with this tank -- Daily 50% wc, and dose ferts. If/when I get the new stuff, I'll pull a gonzo all-nighter and re-set-up...
> 
> At least this isn't my 60p!!! I'd be SUPER p*ssed! Let's hope I get some good stuff to set that one up with!!!


Have you heard back from him yet?


----------



## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

With all this going on... do they still sell the regular AS Amazonia? I have fairly soft water already so the issues that prompted version II to be made wouldn't really cause me much grief.


----------



## imeridian (Jan 19, 2007)

I think I saw a thread where Jeff @ ADG said he was going to start stocking the regular AS Amazonia again. I'm in the same situation MrJG, I'd rather just have the regular/original version, because my water is soft too.


----------



## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Jeff responded to my email early yesterday, and actually got the stuff shipped immediately! Should be here Friday - 2-9 liter bags, and 2-3 liter bags! Great guy to deal with. He did give me the option of waiting a few weeks for the original Aquasoil, but I really can't wait that long -- this stuff is breaking down more and more by the day. 

My plants all have a heavy coating of dust on them, and there are plenty of bubbles still rising from the substrate -- I'm assuming from the breakdown of the soil.

I tested my other bags again (by dumping a handful in the tank) and the speed with which it breaks down is astounding. Instantly. It almost reminded me of those nature shows where you see lava flowing underwater-- you see a dark blob that almost turns itself inside out in a flash of orange.

I can only say good things about Jeff and ADG though, he's a top notch guy with a top notch company. I hope nobody gets the impression that I'm disputing the quality of Aquasoil II. It's obvious there was a bad batch due to a manufacturing mishap. Jeff said that out of the hundred plus bags he's used, he'd never once encountered it. 

Let's hope I can get this replanted, and back on track with a quickness!


----------



## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

Great to hear things are coming to a happy ending here. Top quality product from a top quality company. Goes to show the integrity of a company like this that not only stands behind their product, but steps up to the plate when needed to provide customer satisfaction above all else.

Keep us updated on the replanting roybot! Good luck with it!


----------



## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

In a sick way, I'm actually looking forward to replanting  

I'm just hoping the plants (esp. the hairgrass) will take it OK. I'm pretty sure they will -- everything seems to be off to a great start, aside from the mud. If I knew it wouldn't break down any more, I'd probably leave it, but that's not the case. 

Come springtime, my herb garden and flowerbeds will really appreciate the muddy aquasoil


----------



## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

Here, there is nothing wrong with using that stuff for an emersed setup in the meantime either :hihi:.

Plants should be fine. The nutrients are there, it just looks like poop.


----------



## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Just got done clearing the old stuff out, resetting the manzanita, planting hairgrass...


_It seems to be happening again._ Though not as bad as last time. I'm too far along to stop, I'll keep an eye on it and see what happens.

What do I do now?


----------



## frozenbarb (Dec 16, 2006)

Top it off with sand. Since its mushy already.


----------



## milesm (Apr 4, 2006)

frozenbarb said:


> Top it off with sand. Since its mushy already.


wouldn't the sand eventually settle to the bottom, leaving you with a mud surface? 

as an aside, what are the effects of as2 disintegrating with respect to the nutrients that are bound in the grains? one of the reported benefits of as is that leaner water column ferts can be used. how much of those nutrients are released prematurely by the dissolving as2?


----------



## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

frozenbarb said:


> Top it off with sand. Since its mushy already.


Horrible idea! That would ruin the point of AS.


----------



## frozenbarb (Dec 16, 2006)

milesm said:


> wouldn't the sand eventually settle to the bottom, leaving you with a mud surface?


Well, no? The AS is muddy already. The sand would only settle down if there are gaps in between the substrate. But this time the gaps are blocked off by the muddly AS.



bsmith782 said:


> Horrible idea! That would ruin the point of AS.



It may be a bad idea, but when the AS starts turning super mushy. And all the plants are covered in dust what are you gonna do then. 

Buy a bag of Aquasoil version 1 and top it off then...


----------



## southerndesert (Sep 9, 2007)

WOW...Mine has been in shrimp tanks for months now and so far I have not had a problem...



















These tanks have been set up for months and are constantly turned by MTS. So far so good. I do see some fine debris, but some was present when doing set up.

Man I hope it doesn't happen to mine I really like this substrate. 

Perhaps it was a bad batch as a "bad batch" in a factory can be allot of bags...

Bill


----------



## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

The new stuff that was put in Friday night looks like it's holding up a bit better, similar to yours, Bill, but with a bit more debris. The first batch mushed out instantly. I think you'll be just fine -- if isn't breaking down by now, it probably won't.

This is what mine looked like after I unplanted, right before I scooped it all out...


----------



## cdub1955 (Jan 25, 2008)

I ordered a bunch of this stuff mid February, but have not used it yet (except to put in the tank and put in the hardscape). I have not added water or planted, plan to do this next weekend.

so as I understand if I just take a handful and add it to a glass with some water I will know pretty much immediatly if I have a bad batch?


----------



## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

cdub1955 said:


> I ordered a bunch of this stuff mid February, but have not used it yet (except to put in the tank and put in the hardscape). I have not added water or planted, plan to do this next weekend.
> 
> so as I understand if I just take a handful and add it to a glass with some water I will know pretty much immediatly if I have a bad batch?




Yep.


----------



## cdub1955 (Jan 25, 2008)

Okay, I put some in a glass of water at about 2:00 today, and have messed with it with my fingers, stirred it up wiht a spoon, and couple times, but it still looks very granular. So I assume it is okay?


----------



## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

As long as it doesn't look like a bunch of brick dust, or crushed terracotta pots, you're doing just fine


----------

