# Advice needed. Canister too weak. Regretting purchase



## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi @Blue Falcon,

I have a 75 gallon as well. I found that running two (2) filters (350 gph) worked best for me. On the output side of one filter I run my Hydor heater as well as in-line CO2 diffuser. When I I use Purigen on the tank to remove organics and polish the water it also goes in that filter......obviously the output is decreased by the in-line accessories and extra media. The second filter is my filtration workhorse, nothing in-line and just mechanical filtration in the canister.

By only cleaning one filter at a time (usually do one a month) this allows me to maintain my beneficial bacteria in the other and avoid ammonia/nitrite/nitrate spikes.


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## swarley (Apr 12, 2018)

I use two filter as well on my 75 gallon. A Eheim 350 Pro+ and a Hydor 350. I really like having two filters in such a long tank rather than just one strong one.


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## Blue Falcon (Nov 9, 2009)

swarley said:


> I use two filter as well on my 75 gallon. A Eheim 350 Pro+ and a Hydor 350. I really like having two filters in such a long tank rather than just one strong one.


Yeah that 4' tank is killing my flow. There is a stagnant dead-zone on the opposite end of the tank where the surface isn't even moving. I can throw in some fish food and it just sits on top of the surface biofilm and doesnt move at all. lol :surprise:

Bump:


Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Hi @Blue Falcon,
> 
> I have a 75 gallon as well. I found that running two (2) filters (350 gph) worked best for me. On the output side of one filter I run my Hydor heater as well as in-line CO2 diffuser. When I I use Purigen on the tank to remove organics and polish the water it also goes in that filter......obviously the output is decreased by the in-line accessories and extra media. The second filter is my filtration workhorse, nothing in-line and just mechanical filtration in the canister.
> 
> By only cleaning one filter at a time (usually do one a month) this allows me to maintain my beneficial bacteria in the other and avoid ammonia/nitrite/nitrate spikes.


That makes alot of sense alternating cleanings. That way you don't shock your bio-filtration.


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

Here's kind of a silly question. Did you trim your input and output hoses? Shortening them can make a big difference in flow. I noticed this with my own canister filter, had it set up for a few months without trimming the hoses and thought "this flow seems pretty weak for what it's rated"...obviously knowing that media, foams, polishing pads etc can impact flow rate, it still seemed off. Then I trimmed my hoses so there wasn't any loops or too much extra (you always want some slack so you can move the filter if you need to purge air, little bit of wiggle room, and whatnot). After trimming the hoses I noticed a significant increase in flow.


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

I like simple and that leaves me often to look for things that require less work! 
So I look at filtering and flow as two separate but related items. Filtering is getting the debris collected and processed while flow can be part of that or something else, depending on what part of flow we are thinking about. My thoughts on filtering to remove and process debris is how well that portion is done. Do I have enough media of the correct type, mechanical or bio, to do the processing? If I do, I solve the question of getting the water and debris to the filter with far more simple and cheaper powerheads as they require far less to maintain. 
If it is a matter of getting things moving, I see powerheads as much easier to place out of sight and still get the slow steady movement I want without tearing down and cleaning filters. Several small bumps in flow, rather than working for big enough flow to reach the far points of the tank? Once fully established and the whole tank covered with bio film, I find no trouble cleaning a single filter as there is so much all over everything else! But that is also an estimate based on what size load and lots of small things like how I treat the tank, in general. If it is a breeding tank with lots of fish and very little plants, etc., I do like tow filters but for the "normal" planted, one fits me fine.


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## Blue Falcon (Nov 9, 2009)

varanidguy said:


> Here's kind of a silly question. Did you trim your input and output hoses? Shortening them can make a big difference in flow. I noticed this with my own canister filter, had it set up for a few months without trimming the hoses and thought "this flow seems pretty weak for what it's rated"...obviously knowing that media, foams, polishing pads etc can impact flow rate, it still seemed off. Then I trimmed my hoses so there wasn't any loops or too much extra (you always want some slack so you can move the filter if you need to purge air, little bit of wiggle room, and whatnot). After trimming the hoses I noticed a significant increase in flow.


I did trim them as short as I could

Bump:


PlantedRich said:


> I like simple and that leaves me often to look for things that require less work!
> So I look at filtering and flow as two separate but related items. Filtering is getting the debris collected and processed while flow can be part of that or something else, depending on what part of flow we are thinking about. My thoughts on filtering to remove and process debris is how well that portion is done. Do I have enough media of the correct type, mechanical or bio, to do the processing? If I do, I solve the question of getting the water and debris to the filter with far more simple and cheaper powerheads as they require far less to maintain.
> If it is a matter of getting things moving, I see powerheads as much easier to place out of sight and still get the slow steady movement I want without tearing down and cleaning filters. Several small bumps in flow, rather than working for big enough flow to reach the far points of the tank? Once fully established and the whole tank covered with bio film, I find no trouble cleaning a single filter as there is so much all over everything else! But that is also an estimate based on what size load and lots of small things like how I treat the tank, in general. If it is a breeding tank with lots of fish and very little plants, etc., I do like tow filters but for the "normal" planted, one fits me fine.


That makes sense. I'm going through a bacteria bloom and green dust algae at the moment which is common during a cycle. But it does have me questioning if my filtration is strong enough.


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## TheLordOfTheFish (Mar 11, 2017)

Could you just use a small powerhead to create flow?


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## Blue Falcon (Nov 9, 2009)

TheLordOfTheFish said:


> Could you just use a small powerhead to create flow?


Assuming that I have enough mechanical filtration and it's just an issue of flow then yes I believe a powerhead would work.


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

When thinking what to add, I look at the water and bottom and ask myself if it is what I want to see. Is the water clean and clear? If it is, I feel the mechanical is good enough and look to the bottom to see if there are piles of debris drifting around or too much collecting in some dead spot. If there is, I may want to add some mo0re flow to those spots to give the small "kick" needed to get more of the gunk moved to the filter intake. I often have spots where large wood lying on the bottom will stop or divert flow and I never fully expect to get it all moved but I do want to move most of it to the filter. I find it often takes a combo of better water movement to keep things going in the right direction but also some vac action to pull some of it out from under and around things.
Since doing too much vac in a planted tank is pretty hard on both the plants as well as my time, I like to let it move to the filter to be collected and then I can clear it out of the system quicker than chasing it in all the little spots. 
But there is no one final solution to all tanks as what is there is going to be a major factor. A big bare tank with one big old cichlid will be far different than a tank full of tiny folks living among the tender grass! 
I like the little $7 powerheads I now find on the auction as they let me add lots more of them at a reasonable price. But that also has to have ways to hide the cords and that does work better with my love of wood!


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## Kfactor (Aug 15, 2018)

If your not happy with it I would just sell it and get what u want and u will be happy . Now when I buy stuff I go over kill u can always dial it back


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## AdamRT (Jan 23, 2018)

As people have mentioned, adding a powerhead will get the job done as far as additional flow. But if you are having surface film issues, I would suggest getting surface skimming power head. I think it’s eheim that makes the relatively inexpensive one that everyone seems to like. That will address the surface film and provide additional flow without having to deal with cleaning a second canister filter. 

If you really wanna go for the gusto, you could get a surface skimming adapter for your existing canister filter, and then add the separate one on the other side of the tank. 

I’m a big believer in lots of flow, but I don’t try to get it all from my canister (fx6 on 120 gallon). I don’t utilize any kind of chemical filtration (so no carbon or purigen), it’s all seachem matrix and sponges. Good biological filtration is all about contact time, so I aim for about 3-5x tank turnerover/hr. I’ve got a large uv sterilizer and a 24” NilocG reactor on my canister outflow. I just added the reactor last night and I honestly haven’t noticed any slowing of the returns even though I am sure I’m restricting flow to some degree with all the elbows and multi directional flow patterns of the hoses. Additional flow is provided by an icecap 3k gyre and surface skim is handled by the overflow box (tank is “reef ready”). 

With your tank, if 395 is the rating for your canister that’s already about as low as I’d go for a 75 gallon (assuming a little additional headloss beyond what it’s rated, that puts it at around 5x turnover/hr). I’ve heard the hydor heaters do restrict flow so that canister filter is probably being pushed to the max with your tank and is unlikely to be sufficient if you plan on a normal to heavy bioload. The second it gets a little gunk in it, it’s not going to be moving enough water for your tank. 

Still think you should get a surface skimmer to deal with the film (you’re gonna get that with any canister that pulls from below the surface), but I would also swap out that canister for something in the 500gph range (I loved the Rena xp4 on a 90 gallon- easy to set up, easy to clean, lots of room for media, and so silent I thought it was broken when I first plugged it in). Or you could get a second canister or hob, but that means more intakes, returns and plugs- my personal preference is one, slightly oversized canister whenever possible with add’l flow from powerheads, gyres, or closed loop. 

Welcome back to the hobby and good luck with the tank!!!


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## Blue Falcon (Nov 9, 2009)

I really appreciate everyone's advice. I am honestly not in favor of adding a powerhead as I think they are unsightly and can be noisy (I had reef tanks for years), besides I really think I could use more mechanical filtration. Not necessarily more media volume per say, just more water being pulled into a filter and polished if that makes sense. My single filter just doesn't "suck" enough water in. lol
so I think I have it narrowed down to two options, and I'm on the fence about which to choose.

1. Add a SunSun 704B and be done with it. (Run both canisters) Obviously this would be the cheapest and easiest route. Possibly one to be regretted later?

2. Sell my current canister and inline heater, and buy one Fluval FX4 and get an in-tank heater. This would be a PITA and I'm not sure I would get what is worth out of my filter, especially since I would probably want to steal it's bio-media and the hoses have already been cut to fit my tank.

..........Thoughts?


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

I end up running 2 cannister filters on 3+' tanks.

Another consideration with a single high- flow filter is whether your stem plants will bend in the current.


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## AdamRT (Jan 23, 2018)

Blue Falcon said:


> I really appreciate everyone's advice. I am honestly not in favor of adding a powerhead as I think they are unsightly and can be noisy (I had reef tanks for years), besides I really think I could use more mechanical filtration. Not necessarily more media volume per say, just more water being pulled into a filter and polished if that makes sense. My single filter just doesn't "suck" enough water in. lol
> so I think I have it narrowed down to two options, and I'm on the fence about which to choose.
> 
> 1. Add a SunSun 704B and be done with it. (Run both canisters) Obviously this would be the cheapest and easiest route. Possibly one to be regretted later?
> ...




Haha you forgot option 3: get the fx4, keep the filter you have, buy a 40 breeder or 3’ 65 gallon and use the filter you have on your second tank! It’s gonna happen at some point anyway, so this sounds like the perfect excu... err opportunity... to do it! 


In all seriousness, it sounds like you’re more inclined to get a second canister filter so I’d go with that. The cool thing about this hobby is there are only a few hard and fast rules- and even those can be bent or flat out broken if you know what you’re doing, so there’s really no wrong way to go. The one thing I would suggest if you’re gonna go with a second canister is to get a skimming adapter for at least one, if not both of them. Surface agitation is great at pushing film around but not so great at getting rid of it. It’ll just find some still corner of the tank and accumulate there. I friggin hate bio film on the surface so that would be my main priority in the situation you’ve described and you can kill two birds with one stone with a surface skimmer. There are some pretty slick looking ones out there that are all stainless and do the job. 


If you feel you would benefit from the additional filtration then def go for the second filter, but only something that draws in water from the surface is going to get rid of the film which is why you still see skimmers on tanks that have plenty of filtration. A properly set up planted tank is one giant biological filter so you can prolly get by with the canister you have but it really comes down to what issue you’re trying to address. If it’s flow rate a canister will help but there are far less expensive and lower maintenance ways to solve that problem. If it’s surface film, a surface skimmer is the only way to go- but again that can take the form of a canister filter with skimmer adapter or a separate skimmer- canister with surface skimmer will solve all three issues and give you the ability to add on a uv sterilizer or co2 reactor at some point should you choose to do so. It also provides some redundancy which is never a bad thing- I know i sound like a broken record, but just make sure you get the skimmer adapter with the second filter if you go that route!


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## Blue Falcon (Nov 9, 2009)

AdamRT said:


> Haha you forgot option 3: get the fx4, keep the filter you have, buy a 40 breeder or 3’ 65 gallon and use the filter you have on your second tank! It’s gonna happen at some point anyway, so this sounds like the perfect excu... err opportunity... to do it!


Oh trust me......... that was actually one of the FIRSTS thoughts that went through my head. > My wife shut that down real fast. Several years ago (before we moved), I had 8 aquariums ranging from 10 to 75 gallons. Planted tanks, african cichlids, reef tanks, shrimp breeding tanks..... I think my wife would kill me.... :grin2:

Bump:


OVT said:


> I end up running 2 canister filters on 3+' tanks.
> 
> Another consideration with a single high- flow filter is whether your stem plants will bend in the current.


That is a good consideration. I like that the fx4 has a "Y" return nozzle so it could spread out the flow a bit.


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

I still get plants pulled towards the intakes.

Even though it is more stuff in the tank, 2 diagonally placed intakes and 2 diagonal outflows produce the circular flow I am aming for, don't let the surface film to form, and let you tune the serfuce agitation relative to the co2 input.

But many ways to skin that cat - it's a hobby - do what makes you happy.


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## Blue Falcon (Nov 9, 2009)

So I ended up buying a sunsun 704B. I plan on filling the top two trays with matrix. I expect it to arrive next week. Thanks everyone for the advice.


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

Blue Falcon said:


> So I ended up buying a sunsun 704B. I plan on filling the top two trays with matrix. I expect it to arrive next week. Thanks everyone for the advice.




I actually like my SunSun canister. I’m sure others are better but it simply works.


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## Blue Falcon (Nov 9, 2009)

I just installed my sunsun and so far I like it. Much more flow and TONS of media space. I added an entire gallon of matrix and a bag of purigen.


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

The tank is looking much better. No more bacterial bloom?


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## Cichlid-140 (Sep 28, 2018)

I'd still look into a surface skimmer. Something like this.










https://www.amazon.com/Koller-Products-Aquarium-Surface-Canisters/dp/B00176MUKY/ref=sr_1_9?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1538682813&sr=1-9&keywords=surface+skimmer+aquarium

You'd only need one. It'd take care of that film and add oxygen.


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

I also like the look of the glass and steel intakes that have built-in skimmers. Especially because you can adjust them to get that good balance of skimming.


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## ced281 (Jul 6, 2012)

Cichlid-140 said:


> I'd still look into a surface skimmer. Something like this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The Jardli brand glass surface skimmers work great too! A little pricey but they look nicer than your plastic ones and they are more reasonably priced then your upper tier glassware.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

ced281 said:


> The Jardli brand glass surface skimmers work great too! A little pricey but they look nicer than your plastic ones and they are more reasonably priced then your upper tier glassware.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk




I just ordered a set of their stainless steel lily pipes because kids. Not sure I’ll replace the spray bar but the intake with surface skimmer is what I was really after. It’ll be nice to have the other output for future experimentation though. I wish that someone made stainless outputs with the wide mouth for the vortex. I wonder if a funnel could be affixed to create the same effect...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

varanidguy said:


> I just ordered a set of their stainless steel lily pipes because kids. Not sure I’ll replace the spray bar but the intake with surface skimmer is what I was really after. It’ll be nice to have the other output for future experimentation though. I wish that someone made stainless outputs with the wide mouth for the vortex. I wonder if a funnel could be affixed to create the same effect...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Been looking for a design I could print. I refuse to user ABS, but I bet a nice silver PETG could look good. Still learning Fusion 360... Some day I might figure it out, lol.


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

natemcnutty said:


> Been looking for a design I could print. I refuse to user ABS, but I bet a nice silver PETG could look good. Still learning Fusion 360... Some day I might figure it out, lol.




If you figure it out, please post about it! I might even be willing to buy one from you! I figure black ABS wouldn’t look too bad if it were possible to modify a funnel, but something matching would definitely be preferable.


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