# Hillstream/Borneo Loach Refuge



## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

I love these guys 


























i have been keeping them in my 29g (for those unfamiliar with me). but I have been planning in my mind for quit some time a 40breeder build for them. i've got the tank. and nearly everything else planed out except two things. number one problem is my river bed. i want to have a smooth flat rock river bed that will have some curves in it, for them that will have very high flow running through it. i don't want to cobble pieces together to do this, i want one long piece of rock, but i don't know what kind of rock would be the best (and hopefully cheapest) rock to use. my first thought was granite, but i think that would be a little pricey. however i can not come up with another rock that would be custom cut to do what i want.

the second decision i have to make is how to get the flow into the river bed. as far as i can think i have two options. the first on is to have the river begin in the back of the tank, or on one of the sides and have a hole cut run the flow up from the canister filter (there will be two canisters running on the tank, one very high flow for the river bed, and one for the rest of the tank). i like this option because it keeps the inside of the tank clean and neat, however it really limits where the river can begin.

the other thought i have is to run the hose up the back side of the tank, and bury it in the substrate. i like this option because it allows me to begin the river almost anywhere in the tank, however it is not a clean look having the hose running up and down the back side of the tank. and i run a risk of the hose first, not staying under the substrate, and second well i just forgot the other one :-(.



anyway that is the challenge i am currently at, its really got spinning my tires because this is the most important part of my tank. 

oh and this the official Journal for this tank.


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## Conrad283 (Dec 10, 2012)

You could use two circulation pumps at one end and the filter at another end

Try a rock quarry for the rock that you want, I personally don't know what kind would be best though. They usually charge pretty low and have a BIG selection.



Beautiful fish


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## zoo minsi (Jan 1, 2006)

i would pull a page from the saltwater guys, drill the back of the tank and run your pipes/tubing/ext through there. Then either use the canister filter or a closed loop system with a pump. When looking at how to make a tank cleaner and have less equipment seems saltwater is way ahead of freshwater for the most part. They've already been there did that.


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

Conrad283 said:


> You could use two circulation pumps at one end and the filter at another end
> 
> Try a rock quarry for the rock that you want, I personally don't know what kind would be best though. They usually charge pretty low and have a BIG selection.
> 
> Beautiful fish


i've been, the biggest problem is that 95% of the rock in quarries here is limestone, which i do not want in my tank. that and well the ones in the area do not have rocks that are a slab that can be cut to work as i need it to. the only rock they have that isn't limestone is the river rocks which again doesn't give me the smooth cut slab i want



zoo minsi said:


> i would pull a page from the saltwater guys, drill the back of the tank and run your pipes/tubing/ext through there. Then either use the canister filter or a closed loop system with a pump. When looking at how to make a tank cleaner and have less equipment seems saltwater is way ahead of freshwater for the most part. They've already been there did that.


i could drill the back and then run a hose to the front of the tank, that would eliminate the hose hanging down the back of the tank, and the need to secure the hose under the substrate...

i want to stick with two canisters, i found these loaches to be sensitive water fluxuations in quality, esp ammonia spikes, and i want to minimize losses. would the syphon still work okay with the intank about the output?


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## Conrad283 (Dec 10, 2012)

How about a granite supplier to purchase some of the scraps?


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## Loachutus (Aug 27, 2010)

Have you thought about a river tank manifold? http://www.loaches.com/articles/river-tank-manifold-design 

I like at least 1 HOB on my river tanks. For me it simulates water coming up over rocks (rapids). You can use HOB's and canisters with a river manifold, as well as a power head.

Have you tried calling a local counter top manufacturer or general contracter for what you're looking for? You may be able to get their scraps. Buy them a couple of brew's and they may even cut it for you.


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## chrislewistx (Jun 19, 2012)

+1 on the local granite suppliers. 

If you could do anything you wanted, how would the river bed be positioned in the tank? Also, is it possible to drill the bottom of the tank and bring the hoses in there and up through the substrate or would that be a nightmare in the making?

Those are interesting fish. What else do you plan to have in the tank, plants, etc?


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## Bear Sage (Mar 18, 2012)

Sounds like we need to hit up the Comal or San Marcos river with some tubes, and cold beverages and look for inspiration. And rock slabs! :thumbsup:


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

Loachutus said:


> Have you thought about a river tank manifold? http://www.loaches.com/articles/river-tank-manifold-design
> 
> I like at least 1 HOB on my river tanks. For me it simulates water coming up over rocks (rapids). You can use HOB's and canisters with a river manifold, as well as a power head.
> 
> Have you tried calling a local counter top manufacturer or general contracter for what you're looking for? You may be able to get their scraps. Buy them a couple of brew's and they may even cut it for you.


i forgot all about that thing! thank you. i think i will use that but modify the design to work with a canister filter. the canisters will give me a total flow of 675gph, 375 on the river., and 300 for the general tank. Because i have found these guys rather sensitive to water quality.



chrislewistx said:


> +1 on the local granite suppliers.
> 
> If you could do anything you wanted, how would the river bed be positioned in the tank? Also, is it possible to drill the bottom of the tank and bring the hoses in there and up through the substrate or would that be a nightmare in the making?
> 
> Those are interesting fish. What else do you plan to have in the tank, plants, etc?


i am thinking about one of these. the top left is the original idea i had in my head.









i'm not sure i want to drill the bottom of the tank, i foresee that being a huge problem it would make the tank cleaner and much easier to set-up, but when i move, or if anything goes wrong i potentially would have to drain the entire tank....i don't want to run that risk.

as far as the tank goes, i am taking the 29g in my sig and moving the whole thing to the 40b. then up my numbers on the loaches, and rummy noses, and corys.



Conrad283 said:


> How about a granite supplier to purchase some of the scraps?


initially i had strayed away from granite because of cost, and i wondered if it would look natural in a tank?


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## rowdaddy (Jan 20, 2012)

First thing i would do. Is locate a park or somewhere that there is a stream. Then, take your significant other/best friend/family on a lovely day at the park. Then you can observe an environment similar to what you wish to recreate. There you can find your stone, with a lovely weathered look.

Depending on how much work you want to put into this, you could do a false background/corner. It will take a bit more time, but it's amazing what you can do. Check out the DIY section. It'll really get your wheels spinning. 

I am Rowdaddy. 
SC Aquaria

75 Community
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20L Convict "Bedroom" 
20L Growout
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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

rowdaddy said:


> First thing i would do. Is locate a park or somewhere that there is a stream. Then, take your significant other/best friend/family on a lovely day at the park. Then you can observe an environment similar to what you wish to recreate. There you can find your stone, with a lovely weathered look.
> 
> Depending on how much work you want to put into this, you could do a false background/corner. It will take a bit more time, but it's amazing what you can do. Check out the DIY section. It'll really get your wheels spinning.



hehe i spend most of my free time in parks anyway, but i have what i want in my head i was hoping for more options in the rock i can use, department. i did see a place yesterday that has some slab rock that didn't look like it was limestone based, i am gonna call them today.

i had been kinda anti false background because i always felt like it took away from space that i could have plants, but now that i think about it, it would make a great way to help hide my hoses and keep my tank clean looking. thank you!


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## rowdaddy (Jan 20, 2012)

You're welcome. I just went out for a phase one shopping trip for my project. Don't rush into it if you don't have to. You'll be glad you took your time and didn't cut corners. 

I am Rowdaddy. 
SC Aquaria

75 Community
20H Community
20L Convict "Bedroom" 
20L Growout
10gal RCS
1.5gal in progress
55 gal Paludarium/Vivarium coming soon


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

my phase one was petcos $1 a galon sale . i have been wanting to do this tank for about 7 months now, and have been actively planning things in my head for the last 3 or so, bit by bit i am making good progress.


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## rowdaddy (Jan 20, 2012)

Can't wait to set how it turns out for ya. I used to have a dozen hillstreams. They're great.

I am Rowdaddy. 
SC Aquaria

75 Community
20H Community
20L Convict "Bedroom" 
20L Growout
10gal RCS
1.5gal in progress
55 gal Paludarium/Vivarium coming soon


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

i called around to a few landscaping places yeasterday, and it seems my choices are flagstone, or granite. so monday i'm going to drive to a couple and see what they have what it would cost me.

has anyone ever drilled the lower parts of their tank? what have your experiences been?


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## rowdaddy (Jan 20, 2012)

Drill + glass + me = a pile of shards

I've breve drilled a tank. All of mine.are glass, and I'm too much of a puss puss to attempt to drill.

I am Rowdaddy. 
SC Aquaria

75 Community
20H Community
20L Convict "Bedroom" 
20L Growout
10gal RCS
1.5gal in progress
55 gal Paludarium/Vivarium coming soon


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

lol!i understand the worry. i don't think i have the finese to do it. but i have an LFS that does it $25 a hole. they have done it many times so i'm not to concerned with shattering


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## rowdaddy (Jan 20, 2012)

If you've got the dough. Do it!

I am Rowdaddy. 
SC Aquaria

75 Community
20H Community
20L Convict "Bedroom" 
20L Growout
10gal RCS
1.5gal in progress
55 gal Paludarium/Vivarium coming soon


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

i don't lol. but thats why i started a third job yesterday. i haven't heard back from that rock cutting guy....i'm a little bummed but i'm going to give him a phone call today on my break and see what the deal is. 

i think i'm not going to drill the tank. it will make it easier to sell or to do something different with down the road. and while i would love a clean tank, i can deal with a few hoses running down the back tank.


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

so the guy turned out be a waste of time. i was contact him last time i posted. since then we made appointments 6 different times, each time he had reschedule, because of this or that. i got mad and told him off, i mean what kind of guy does that to people? i had to re-arrange my schedule every time to fit this guys garabage. 

so long story short, come to find out a guy i work with is a freaking artist and does alot of work with cut stone...so he said he would do it.


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## chrislewistx (Jun 19, 2012)

So have you decided yet if its going to be flagstone or granite?

The flagstone kind of reminds me more of a river bed as opposed to the granite. In my own opinion.


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

i agree i like the flagstone, it has more of a river bed feel to it. but man that granite would would badass in a tank. but i have a rock i want to use, i think it will work well


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## Bear Sage (Mar 18, 2012)

Would slate do the same and be cheaper by like a lot?


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## Bear Sage (Mar 18, 2012)

What were you thinking for your flow? My xp 3 has a nice strong flow with a spray bar and jet flow. If you plan on two canisters just oversize them.


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## pianofish (Jan 31, 2010)

Hey man check my sig our for use of granite scraps in a tank. It can be done tastefully, even with larger chunks. My local countertop gave me a 5 gallon bucket for free, they had a scrap pile the size of a large SUV out back so I picked all the expensive neat yet tasteful looking pieces. 

Either way, if you use that rock in your pic, I think it's gonna look great! Good luck man!
~Joshua


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

Bear Sage said:


> Would slate do the same and be cheaper by like a lot?





Bear Sage said:


> What were you thinking for your flow? My xp 3 has a nice strong flow with a spray bar and jet flow. If you plan on two canisters just oversize them.


yeah plain slate is probably cheaper, but i want the rock i use to be darker than plain slate, and i don't mind forking over a little for this tank. after all this is the tank i have been dreaming in my head for the last 8 months.

for flow i have the XP2 and XP3 to handle the tank. i am going to use the XP3(more than likely with out filter media) exclusively for the river bed, and the xp2 for the rest of the tank ( not sure at what angle i will have the flow yet. I am probably going to spend a couple days tweaking to it give the bamboos the safest place i can in case they don't like the river bed with the loaches.)



pianofish said:


> Hey man check my sig our for use of granite scraps in a tank. It can be done tastefully, even with larger chunks. My local countertop gave me a 5 gallon bucket for free, they had a scrap pile the size of a large SUV out back so I picked all the expensive neat yet tasteful looking pieces.
> 
> Either way, if you use that rock in your pic, I think it's gonna look great! Good luck man!
> ~Joshua


i don't want to use pieces for the river, i want it to be one continus piece so that they glide up and down the the bed without gaps, or level changes. in the photos from where they come from its usually one huge piece of rock that has been smoothed, and carved by thousands of years of water flow, so i want to recreate that as much as possible.


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

last week i was able to find the rock i want. i got two huge pieces totaling almost 70lb $20. i and currently working with an artist friend, who can cut rock, to make sure we are on the same page and have the correct measurements before we cut.

i'm going to rinse off the rocks and take photos today (so the plan goes).


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

For the river bed flow, PVC pipe will stay put under the substrate. Easy and cheap to put together. Hide the outflow with some stones at the top of the bed.

via Droid DNA Tapatalk 2


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

OVT said:


> For the river bed flow, PVC pipe will stay put under the substrate. Easy and cheap to put together. Hide the outflow with some stones at the top of the bed.
> 
> via Droid DNA Tapatalk 2


nice! i can work with that.




here is the rock, i didn't wash it before the photos but if you look close you can see the pencil lines of where we will be cutting and chiseling.

there is the "s" in the middle, that will be carved into a channel.outter edges will be trimmed down into a shelf that will be above the flow, where they can hang out if they want to get out the current.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

How's this project going?

Looking forward to seeing more photos.


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

the stand came in the other day. i'm gonna bring it home this week and set the tank on top. it won't fit in my car so i have to wait for my schedule line up with the LFS, they are gonna let me use our service van to get it to my house. i'm thinking i might paint the back of the tank black, just to make things easier. 

a small problem arose this past saturday, the friend that is supposed to work on the rock, hasn't even started yet. a little unhappy about that, but it is what it is.

but super excited for that stand, its a cherry wood color, and called a "modern" stand. i googled it and found nothing that looks like it. i think its gonna look great.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Painting it black will allow you to hide equipment. I have only one tank that I haven't added a black background to and wholly regret it.


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

somewhatshocked said:


> Painting it black will allow you to hide equipment. I have only one tank that I haven't added a black background to and wholly regret it.



i've never painted it on before, i've always just used the reflective stuff they sell, or poster board. all of my tanks but my crab and my new shrimp tank have black background. (both my 29's, my 20l, my 10g, and my crayfish tank)


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

I got my stand home today! i'm super excited about it, and i love the stand. the color doesn't exactly go with everything in my living room, but most of this is stuff i got on the cheap, and have been carrying around with me for a few years. 

i talked to my friend (mau) about the rock, and mau said that it should be done in a month or less. i'm a little bummed it is taking this long but he is a very busy guy, he just moved into a new house with three kids, and works alot so i can't complain. 

I bought a shop light (clip on one) from home dept the other day for my new 7g shrimp tank, and its pretty cool. i like the options for bulbs, and the easy access to them i have. so i think i'm going to go that route. when the guy sends a stand to the LFS he sends on "runners" that keep the stand up off the floor in the fish store so it doesn't get wet. i'm gonna stain those and use them as a rail to hang the lights on. in my head it will look nice. I'm thinking three will be more than enough. I'm thinking two 6500k and one that is in the 2700 range. idk.

i can't wait, i'm debating filling it with water and throwing some fish in there to start cycling the media.


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## Lil' Swimz$ (Jul 24, 2010)

Correct me of I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure the bottom pane is tempered which means the whole thing would shatter. 

Btw I LOVE hill stream loaches I used to have a fast water tank for some. Kinda makes me want to set it up again!!


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## chrislewistx (Jun 19, 2012)

Good looking stand Will, you scored.


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

Lil' Swimz$ said:


> Correct me of I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure the bottom pane is tempered which means the whole thing would shatter.
> 
> Btw I LOVE hill stream loaches I used to have a fast water tank for some. Kinda makes me want to set it up again!!


I'm not sure what you mean? But I google searched glass strength before I started this build, and what i saw convinced me ill be okay. On top of that lots of saltwater people use these tanks with more weight in live rock than i will be using, with no trouble.

But either way I'm super excited build this. You should start one again


@chris. Thanks bro. I hope I can do this tank right, KIA ( stupid Kia car commercials)


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## Lil' Swimz$ (Jul 24, 2010)

Aquatic Delight said:


> I'm not sure what you mean? But I google searched glass strength before I started this build, and what i saw convinced me ill be okay. On top of that lots of saltwater people use these tanks with more weight in live rock than i will be using, with no trouble.
> 
> But either way I'm super excited build this. You should start one again
> 
> ...


Oh! I thought you said you wanted to drill the bottom? Maybe I imagined that part hahah! Well I thought people always drilled the sides because of the bottom being tempered glass, if you're talking about rocks and weight and stuff then hahah no I think it will be fine sorry I confused you!


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

oh i had thought about drilling the glass, but the lower part of the back glass. usually people drill the top (in saltwater) but i was thinking of drilling the lower part of the sam glass to hide the tubes. but i decided against that. if i ever need to do to maintence to the lines, or any other major maintence i would have to drain the whole tank to do it. and that would be bad. so i'm just going to paint the back glass and maybe use painted PVC to hide alot of the tubing.


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## CheyLillymama22 (Jun 9, 2013)

I can't wait to see this tank up and running!Id love to get hillstream loaches, maybe one of these days.


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

everything is pretty much at a stand still until i can get the rock from my friend. i have thought about filling it up with water, and adding a few fish to start cycling the new canister. but laziness gets to me everytime...and i would feel bad putting fish in a empty baron tank.


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## skoram (Aug 9, 2012)

I was thinking about buying some Borneo Loaches at my LFS a few weeks ago but read that they prefer cooler water. At any rate, I think this is a cool idea. Can't wait to see the final setup.


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

thats the only spot i don't do quite right. because they will be sharing the tank with

double red agassizi

Rummy nose


bamboo shrimp(singapor wood shrimp)

I'm going to be keeping the tank at the top end of the temp range for the Loaches, and the bottom end of the Temp range for the other fish.


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

just hooked up the second canister to start cycling!!! i hope i don't kill my livestock doing this. i ran the new one into the old one in the hopes that it would reduce the ammonia in the tank by first giving the established bacteria the opportunity to eat as much as possible.



i have a total of 3 baskets filled with biological media ( 60 bio-chem stars, and 1 litre of ceramic rings) plus the mechanical filtration and carbon in the old canister.


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## CT89 (Jul 3, 2013)

Cool thread.

Hooking canisters up in series seems to be popular in the shrimp hobby, or so I've read. I doubt it would hurt at all, unless the second canister happened to be full of chlorine or something that would hurt the cycle (doubtful?).


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

its been running like for month with no ill effects. i think it is at equialibrum


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

so its been three months since i gave the rock to my friend, and everytime i ask him about it he says something about, how the rock is hard and its taking a long time to get it done. blah blah blah. 

i'm getting irritated, and i don't know what to say to him about my rock...i really want to put this tank together, but i can't do anything until i get the rock from him. ugh! i thought about just using some of the river rocks from home depot just so i can have this tank, or using flagstone scrape from a landscape store. its not how i want the tank, but i want the tank running...


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

well i said screw it, i'm gonna set up the tank with rocks i have in other tanks, and things i can get from fellow planted tank people here in San Antonio. so last week i ordered my light, the Current Satellite Freshwater LED +. i wanted the coolest toy that is out there. 





i really wanted it for the controller. i work in a LFS here in SA, i see all those awesome lights on Saltwater and i am very jealous. i'm not concerned with the PAR value of the light, which i know there is some concern over, because that tank will be full of anubias and other low light plants that can handle high flow.



i noticed that with the new light i was finally able to get a photo of the stand that shows the color of it.



then i bought my bottle of spray paint and painted the back of the tank.





after tank dried i took it up stairs a put the light on it....look how deep the tank looks now.



i went ahead and ordered the sand today aswell. i went with caribsea super naturals. i looked into play sand and blasting, but i was not confident that the grains were small enough, or that they were smooth enough for the safety of all of my bottom dwellers. the caribsea stuff (on bag at least) says it is great for rays, and sand sifting bottom dwellers. that sounds perfect for what i am doing.



i have a 50lb bag coming at some point....sooner the better.


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## Harrisgo (Mar 18, 2013)

Boooo!! I say you hunt that dude down and forcefully make him cut your stone! I was really looking forward to your original plan.


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

the original idea is still in play, and will happen whenever he finishes the rock. i still call him about it every week or so. but i'm tired of waiting, i want this tank set up. in my mind this tank is going to be the most beautiful tank i have, and i want to stare at it.

anyway i picked up this massive thing at a granite store the other day for nothing.


its a little thinner than i want, and not the color i wanted. i wanted a black granite, but this piece is almost exactly the dimensions i wanted. i think its gonna look great.

my plan is to lay some egg crate under it to get it up to the height i need it, so that sand won't fall on it and get blown around, and i can have a proper substrate depth. i'm going to pick up some PVC to run the spray bar down to the rock, instead of hose. That way i can paint it black and hide some of the pipe.


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

*It is done!!!!!*

i finally got off the bits together! 

i got my pieces all put together, the intake and outflow with spraybar. i was going to build one with PVC, but i lucked out and we happended to have a black already made spray bar
i went with the black tubing to keep everything clean. i used krylon fusion to paint everything, I even painted the surface skimmer (that was grey) and the j tube that was blue.



(the spray bar)

then there is the 50lb bag of sand, which turned out to be over kill, i have about 10lbs leftover, and all the sand still in the old tank.


i just now realized that i didn't take any photos as things went together so whoops on that one. but here is the equip running over the back of the tank



i had a hell of a time priming one of the canisters. it took me about 30mins to realize that i could turn the inside of the tank tube part upward and fill it from there


so i finally got the canister primed and running. at which point i found a leak.....right here
it took 4 sealings to get the leak to stop. it was amazingly annoying. finally i just covered the freaking thing in PVC glue and it worked.


anyway it took about 5 or 6 hours get the tank all put together and not leaking. like i said this isn't what i had planned in my head but it looks great 







all of that actually came from this bad boy who had been running for a year and 7 months.


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

The Current inhabitants of this tank are as follows.


2 Hillstream loaches (Sewellia lineolata)
1 Spiney-headed hillstream loach (Gastromyzon punctulatus)
8 white cloud mountain minnows
3 double red agassizi (1 male 2 female)
4 assorted corys
4 panda corys
3 bamboo shrimp


The Equipment on this tank is
1 Rena Filstar XP 2 
1 Rena Filstar XP L
and the Current Satellite LED+


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

i am in love with this tank. it is the biggest tank i've had.

all my fish love it, and i have to say i am shocked at how many of my fish play in the high flow areas of the tank. of course the loaches play in it, and the white clouds, but the female agassizis hang out in it, and even the cories love swimming it.


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## Fishumms (Apr 21, 2010)

I want to do this now.


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## tattooedfool83 (Mar 15, 2013)

Dude this is bad ass!! And that apisto in the pic is gorgeous.


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

thanks guys. i appreciate the kind words. 

fishumms, you should do it. this build is a lot of fun, i really enjoyed planning this out, and thinking about current, and how it is going to be affected by the rocks, and the objects in the current, and figuring out how to get as much flow as possible.


thanks tattooed, i love that guy (almost as much as my borelli) he has been with me for almost a year. hes got two females that he loves to chase around.


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

okay so i had a very long post typed up about my trip to pick up my Gastromyzon myersi, but then i some how clicked the back button on my browser and lost it all. so the short version is this.

i bought 5 Gastromyzon myersi, as is par for the course only 2 are actually myersi.

i think on is Gastromyzon stellatus, but i'm not postive, because the photos of stellatus show them as a brown of cream color, and mine is dark black. but he does have the body shape and size, so who knows.

another one is Gastromyzon ctenocephalus, which is also the common name for Gastromyzon ocellatus, but the common name for Gastromyzon ctenocephalus is Gastromyzon punctulatus.

i think one may be Gastromyzon cornusaccus, but again i'm not certain. there is only a couple photos out there i have found that are good and clear, but this one has been hiding since i put them in i'm going off memory on this one.

and one i'm pretty sure is a undescribed species. sadly i don't have photos of the new ones they aren't spending much time in areas i can get good photos, but i'm keeping my eyes on them for a good photo op.


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## zodduska (Aug 14, 2013)

I really enjoyed reading your build, those loaches are awesome fish and I think it turned out great. I've got high flow in my 12 and it's fun to watch the fish hang out in the current.


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

zodduska said:


> I really enjoyed reading your build, those loaches are awesome fish and I think it turned out great. I've got high flow in my 12 and it's fun to watch the fish hang out in the current.



thanks zodd. your tank is fantastic! i wish i could keep a scape like that, i have plantitis where i want everything and i will stuff it whereever i can find space.



i was able to get a couple photos of the new guys today. 





the tail of the above


its been very hard to get photos of these guys, they are very shy right now, and only seem to come out when the light is dim, which makes photos harder than they already are. i still have 3 more not pictured, two are very large and maybe larger than my Sewellia lineolata. i'm hoping for a good photo of them tomorrow.


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

Doing some water parameter testing today
In Tank
PH:
GH: 8
KH: 3
Nitrate: 40
TDS: 174

Ro/DI water before adding to tank
PH:6
GH: 4
KH: 1
Nitrate: 0
TDS: 2 

after remineralizing in jug (1/2tea per 5g)
PH:7.4
GH:
KH:5
Nitrate:
TDS: 220

i got hungry so i will have to finish this stuff on another W/C. but i am going to increase the amount of water i am removing during w/c as my nirAtes are too high. i will now do 10g instead of 5g


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

at some point the lfs i Part time at brought in Kuhli loachs, but i thought they had all died off, or got sold. but i was up there yesterday getting more water and i saw one swimming around in the tank and i felt bad for the lonely bugger, so i took him home. i didn't realize how cool looking they actually are. which is weird to me since they are so snake like and i hate snakes! 

any way i'm excited to see if he is happy in tank.


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## bostoneric (Sep 7, 2011)

I learned a to feeding hillstream loaches a long time ago when i had a tank full of them.
have another smaller tank like 2 or 5G with a light on 24x7. let it get nice and full of green algae on everything. then you can start rotating stones in and out. the hillstream loaches love smooth stones covered in algae!


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

*Aaaahhhhhh!*

something is wrong. in the last 3 days i have lost one panda cory, my albino cory, a white cloud and my apisto died. i didn't test water until this morning, with the thought that it can't be ammonia because none of my shrimp are dying. but i tested this morning

ammonia .5 or .25 me and my gf dissagree on the color.
nitrIte 0
NitrAte 80


i'm guessing something is rotting somewhere, because i have done 3 20% water changes this week and i've been feeding every other day. the fish can get under the granite, so i'm debating pulling it up and looking, but i don't want to disturb the entire tank.

any other thoughts on what could be wrong?


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## tomfromstlouis (Apr 2, 2012)

I guess it is possible the new fish brought something in. Either way, I thought any reading of ammonia over zero was a bad sign in an established tank. I would try aggressive water changes.


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

tomfromstlouis said:


> I guess it is possible the new fish brought something in. Either way, I thought any reading of ammonia over zero was a bad sign in an established tank. I would try aggressive water changes.


i did bring in a batch of otos, and all of them died, but i removed each dead body. i just got back from filling my water jugs, i'm gonna a 50% today and then a 30 or 40% tomorrow(would be 50 but i need to do a wc on my cray tank.) i dosed with prime before i left to get my water, so everyone is okay right now.

i'm just really tripped up by the fact that none of my inverts are acting like the ammonia is effecting them, all 4 of my bamboos have been out feeding like normal, my amano is acting normal. they only clue i had that something was wrong is my snails went under ground.

usually the first thing i lose when ammonia spikes is my hillstreams, and i didn't lose one until sometime after i posted about this.

i have been debating treating the tank with marycn, or running to the store and picking a cheapo UV sterilzer to run on the tank, but i'm not sure that either of those are a good course of action being that i have ammonia.


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

so i have no idea what happened. i think maybe the kuhli loaches hit a couple air pockets of anerobic bacteria while digging under the sand. In any case the tank is stable again, but the losses are terrible. 

The first and hardest loss is my Double Red agassizi. as far as indiviual fish go, he was my favorite i've kept to date. i watched him give his last burst of energy before he passed. i didn't want to believe that he indeed had passed, i left him in the tank for a couple hours thinking he would come back to life and be okay, sadly that was just wishful thinking. Both of his females passed the next day, i'm not surprised by this, and honestly a little grateful. i'm not forced into getting another double red down the road should i decide to get another dwarf cichlid for that tank, i really want to, but i have my doubts as to if it would work again. 

i also lost two or three hillstreams, one sewellia, and one gastromyzon for sure. i'm unsure if i lost another gastromyzon as i hadn't yet determined the difference in the 3 of the same speices. i was sad to see the gastro and sewe go as the two i lost had kind of paired off as friends, and spent most of their time hanging out near each other, and never battled. the gastro was the largest of the ones i had recently picked up (slightly larger than my sewellia) and i never for certain determined his scientific name. the sewellia was the only black and white (or silver) one i had ever seen at the lfs. i also lost of my white clouds, while i do love those little fish, it didn't make me near as sad the other losses.

probably the second saddest loss in all of this was my albino cory. he was one of the first fish i bought when i got into the hobby, and was very large. he was never camera shy in the early days, and i have quit a few good photos of him. its very very hard to lose a fish like that, when i got him he was tiny, maybe still a juvie, and i had no idea just how big cories could get. that was a rough lose for me.

in a unrelated loss to the ammonia, i also lost nearly all of my panda cories. my double red kept chasing them into the intake of one of my power heads, and i couldn't figure out why. until, while reading up on other dwarf cichlids i found a spot about breeding them, that mentioned that cories like to eat fish eggs. it all clicked after that. 

in the last week and a half i lost a grand total of 18 fish (8 being the newly added ottos). what baffles me through all of this is i did not lose one single shrimp. not one amano, not one bamboo. wtf? bamboos, IME, are the first to go. it doesn't make any sense to me.

the only brightside to all of this loss, is it makes room for the new, and shockingly i have found new already. the day after ammonia stopped showing i found gastroyzom on aquabid!!!! and not the silly spotted common ones. stripped ones that i had never seen before!!!!

i bought them! they will arrive on friday. i know that this close after a huge loss like this, adding new fish probably is not the smartest idea...but i can't pass this up. i've been looking twice a day for around three months for these guys to show up anywhere, and they finally did! its almost like it was supposed to happen this way (maybe not, but i've never lost fish like that before). i will continue to monitor the tank, until they arrive. i also picked up a UV sterilizer (on clearance :-D) that i am going to run for the days leading up the fish coming in just to be safe.


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

so today the fish came in! i was so excited to get them in, i started with a little tank re-arranging since the set up i had was to accomidate the dwarf cichlids i lost. so i made more smooth rock area and moved some stuff around. i'm happy with it for now, we will see how the hillstreams like it. really didn't do much to change it

i was rather unhappy with the fish came in. the photo was these guys.

but of the 5 i ordered only that one was what was pictured in the ad, the rest are 


which are gastromyzon punctulatus, and can be found rather easily, and show up locally from time to time. i'm pretty unhappy. i paid alot of money for what i thought was going to be something special, and i ended up with what i feel is a rip-off.

anyway i'm happy to have a species tank now, and i look forward to seeing how things in the tank develop


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

i shot a video of all the hillstreams in the tank except for one... 

http://youtu.be/wvO7dq8CAqk

this guy. 


this is the ones that i thought i was buying when i ended up with these




so i heard back from the guy i bought from. he apologized and said he wrote the note down incorrectly on what i wanted, and said he would send me out a few of the correct ones (which he is called gastromyzon sp01). I am very happy with the customer service. after my unhappiness settled away, i realized that the fish they sent me were super healthy and looked fantastic. over all i'm very happy with the fish, other than they aren't what i wanted them to be.

and heres a picture of something i see rather often in my tank


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

They CAME IN!!! The guy put the wrong apt number on the package again so they sat in the post office over night. thankfully no one died! and they actualled looked much healthier (more color and very active in the package) then the other ones i had gotten from them. anyway i'm very happy with Gunpowder Aquatics, and will whole heartedly recommend them to any one who asks. i can't wait to see how the fish interact with everyone else in the tank. it is now at what i will consider its stocking limits, with a total of 

10-12 gastromyzon (3 or 4 different species)
1 swellia lineolatta
3 cory cats (2 green aneus 1 panda)
6 white cloud mountain minnows
4 bamboo shrimp
2 kuhli loaches
5 ottos


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## chrislewistx (Jun 19, 2012)

Congratulations on the new fish. I like the bolbitis in the previous picture behind the bamboo shrimp. Do you know what kind of bolbitis that is?


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

its bolbitis Heudelotii,i got it as a ROAK when i first got into the hobby. I gave away most of it when i got tired of it, but kept a few rihizomes, its almost a year, but it finally started growing out.


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## chrislewistx (Jun 19, 2012)

I have some kind of bolbitis I got from Adam. However, in my tank the leaves grow kind of clamped together. They dont lay out flat like yours do.


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

i think its the same one, if i remember right. he brought some to one of the swap meets.


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

well i've been moving all of this week....omg do i regret my MTS right now. 7 of my 8 tanks are moved to my new temp home, back with my parents before i moved to florida.

the only tank left is this tank, my 40b. so far i have moved both 20l, 1 29g, 2 10g, and a 2.5g (which was nothing ). i imagine this tank will take me all day to pack up and move. i am going to pull all of the fish, remove the granite (i think), and all of the plants. i have 4 buckets to put plants and rock into, and plenty of bags for the fish, also while i have it out i am going to measure all of my PVC and make identicle pvc that i will spray paint and allow to dry for a full week like was recommended to me. i have noticed that the spray paint is beggining to chip off, and i don't like it.

anyway i'm exhausted. i'll have more to say in the coming days.


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

today is the big day, moving the hillstreams today. so far i've moved everyone else, and only lost 1 pgymy cory. my crayfish, ruby red peacock cichlid, and the rest of that tank have been in a bucket since tuesday. we busted the bottom trim off that tank, and i don't want to set it up until i re-glue the trim on. it looks ugly with the silicon showing.

any way going to be a long day, i'll try to get some photos of the process to post on the blog. but that will be hard as i think my phone is packed in a box in storage, and i have no idea where i packed my camera :icon_conf.

i was hoping to have all day to do it, since i am normally off on sunday and monday and today is my last day in the old apartment, but since my birthday is thursday my boss gave me thursday and friday off. so i can't complain :-D, but i'll have to rush today to get the tank done.

any way off i go, have a wonderful day guys.


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

it was a pain to move the 40b but its all back together. it was much easier to set up the second time. i still ran into so leak problems, which are my own fault, some of hosing i am using has a inner diameter that is to large, and requires a little extra force, and proper positioning to get the hose clamp just right.

i took from what i had learned watching the hillstreams at my apt and tried to make channels, so that everyone could have a territory, and i could view more at once. it looks a little crowded in the photo, but most of the time i can see 80% of the hillstreams out at one time. 


i also traded a clown pleco from my other tank for a sewellia lineolata. i didn't have a white one, and he was all alone in his current set-up. 

i love these little guys. i might be trading them away and doing a all gastro tank, i have a few humilis coming in, and one viriosus. i really wanted two viriosus, but i wanted a small group of humilis a little more, and i am honestly way over stocked for a hillstream tank. i just recently thought of building another tank for them, but if i do, it will have to wait until i am moved and settled in, in florida.

I made the mistake of visiting my favorite LFS in san antonio(other than the one i work at) and very quickly blew $30 on emerald rasboras, the myrios (only $1.25 ea should have bought more)
much to my excitement they stopped carrying reticulated hillstreams (sewellia lineolatta) and brought in Gastromyzon, i almost peed my pants with excitement! I'm pretty sure my gf is going to stop letting me to go LFS becaues "don't worry i'm just gonna run in real quick" always turns into a 2 hour affair of "i want this and that, and that. oh but where will i put it? i'll just get this. oh but man i really want that! OK! i'll get this instead....but man i don't know these are really cool." yadda yadda yadd. i stared at their gastro tank for about 20mins inspecting every single one, looking for that awesome rare find. i did find what i think to be a Zebrinus, but i don't have a positive ID, and it could just be a young gastro of another kind. Their patterning often changes drastically as they grow up. but either way its super cool, and very shy, so i don't have a good photo yet.

in the batch of rasboras came this guy
(bottom center)
 i saw him in the tank, and forget to check what they netted to make sure i didn't get it, but i got distracted and forgot. does any one know what it is?

anyway on to the excitement of my tank! i have two berried shrimp, who i have never had berried before! one amano (now for the second time, i haven't been able to update since i saw her first berry) and one bamboo! its crazy i've been keeping bamboo for almost two years and never had one get berried! sadly it means nothing because i don't have the time to devote to try and actually breed them, but its really cool non the less.



living at home is giving my parents the tank fever and they are talking about buying one from me, which would be great because i don't want to carry many more tanks with me. but they don't want the fish that are in it. they are a little aggressive (gardneri killifish), so i will be selling my 3trio (1m 2f) at some point soon, to make room for whatever they want. it makes me sad, because the male is a third generation tank raised in my tanks. and is stunning! i have a 4th generation in my grow out tank, that i was going to replace my 3rd gen with when they got old enough, but now i might have to sell every one :-(.

heres a couple fun pics to close this update out.


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

*More fish!*



on the left gastromyzon humilis, the middle is gastromyzon viriosus, and on the right is cory sterbai.


two humils, the larger on is the viriosus again, and the sterbai tail.


very dark, but the body lines of a humilis are very clear.


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

My mistake i miss typed it should be hypergastromyzon humilis, not gastromyzon humilis.

still researching on what the differences are but from observation it looks like hyper is flatter, and more active. i'm hoping some one will buy me The Borneo Suckers: Revision of the Torrent Loaches of Borneo by Tan Heok Hui, so i can learn alot more and be more able to ID species.


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

so i'm a little paranoid. i'm leaving to work in florida for three weeks before i move out there, which leaves my mother and father to care for my tanks. its not that i don't trust them to do it, i'm just not gonna be here ya know? scares the crap out of me.

anyway i lost my large bamboo. makes me rather sad, he was cool. also i'm losing a few white clouds. i had one that was looking sick, and not swimming well. he was hanging out around my surface skimmer, and when i came home from work one day he had gotten his head stuck in it and was gone. i have another one acting the same way. i'm hoping its just age, i haven't had these guys very long, but they were full grown when i got them, so i have no idea how old they are.

any way i'm excited for the move. i can't wait to live in a new state. i've only lived in TX, and almost all of my life in San Antonio. i'll be moving 4 tanks with me, two are betta tanks that my gf refuses to let me get rid of. one is my crayfish tank, with a Ruby Red Peacock cichlid, and some brilliant Rasboras. and then this tank. my plan is to pick some battery opperated airstones, and put all of my fish in buckets with the airstones running for the drive. i'm expecting it to take three days of travel, and them i'm thinking the second day after we get the boxes moved in i can start getting the tanks put back together. my other thought is that i will keep the bio filters in the bucket to keep them alive.

any way i've got other things to do.


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

I couldn't stop myself i bought one more fish. 

it is called a Inle Loach, and she was in a tank with emerald Rasboras at the LFS. i'm not sure how i missed it as i have bought fish from that tank 3 times now and never seen her.

any way she schools with the rasboras, and is very inquisitive. very cool rare, and almost endangered fish. 

this is the only photo i have of mine 


the other is from some one else but i wanted ya'll to see her.



it was stupid of me to get a new fish two days before i leave for 3 weeks, but i'm really glad i did because of the rarity of the fish.


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## lamiskool (Jul 1, 2011)

Goodluck with the move! Ugh don't even want to think about when I have to move out of my apartment and move all my tanks lol


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

thank you!
don't leave if you don't have to. its the biggest PIA, i hated doing it, twice, nine tanks both times(maybe 8) now i have it down to 6! i'm trying to down grade a little more.


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

i miss my tanks......


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## zetvi (Jun 12, 2013)

Journal of the move? :d


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

Moving journal huh? i'll see if i can get enough photos to make it worth while....or if i have the time....i'm gonna need more buckets!


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

Here is the move "journal"

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=560418


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

so i did a little water testing today, mostly to see if my tap water was usable in my tank. sadly i don't think it is because i have the tangerine tigers in the tank now (since their tank exploded during my move). any way here are the testing results


in the Tank

Ph 7.4
GH 14
KH 1
Nitrate 80


in the Tap
Ph 8.2
Gh over 20 (i stopped at 20)
Kh 11
Nitrate 0

i wanted to test TDS, but my meter is MIA after the move. i found the box but no meter inside.

pretty out there both ways.....i was hoping to save a few clams and use tap, but it seems to be to far out there to mess with.


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## Cyanider (Mar 1, 2013)

You could look into getting a cheap RO unit. They can be had at under $100 for a halfway decent unit. They also have attachments to hook onto your faucet so you don't have to modify any plumbing. Probably easier and cheaper in the long run than buying water from your LFS or wherever you get it. Just an option!


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## pianofish (Jan 31, 2010)

You could always do the trashcan ro method. Have the ro water empty into a 50 gallon trashcan and then have a small pump to pump the water from your trashcan to your tanks. 
Glad to hear that the move went by without too many hitches. I'm in the works of setting up a 60 gallon display tank with a 60 gallon sump in an apartment.... So I'm trying really hard to future proof it for te inevitable moves that I know will happen. Makes everything a little more expensive. 

So how many hillys do you have now?
Joshua


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

R/O unit is opposite of what i am trying to do, save money. while the $80-$100 will save me money in the long run i don't have that kind of money up front.



theres no future proof move tanks. i have moved tanks 3 times and every time it is just as hard as the last. and the longer the move, the more work you have to put into protecting the tanks.

i am down to 5 or 6 hillstreams.... my g. viriosus, 3 humilis, sewellia, and another spotted gastro i say yesterday but wasn't able to id which one.


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## Chris_Produces (Feb 19, 2014)

Some tough little guys with Nitrates of 80 for very long:eek5:


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

yeah lol. i know that i over feed so i do big water changes, no less than 25% every time. but with my mother watching the tanks, i'm sure she over fed a lot. oh-well it'll come down....


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## Jaxfisher (Jun 2, 2013)

*River Manifold Tank for Hillstreams*

Think about a river manifold tank (google for directions). I set this up in a 55g and it provides a ripping current. I have a number of different hillstreams, panda garras, sumo loaches, corydoras, and farlowella in there that love it. Through no fault of mine I have had several spawnings from the sewelia lineolata and farlowellas!


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

i think somewhere in this thread i talked about it (or maybe it was in my planning thread) but I decided against the manifold. one of the biggest reasons being the lack of flexablity with it. you are limited in scaping to what the PVC will allow you to do. the set-up i run is over 1,200GPH turn over, that doubles as my filtration, and is customizable to the current scaping i have. 

the set up i run allows me to have current on the floor for the hillstreams, and suface agitation/circulation to aid in CO2 diffusion and keep from having dead spots in my tank. 

I have nothing against the River manifold, but it just didn't work with what i wanted to do.


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

just a quick update

i had to leave for the weekend, my grandmother passed away (it was expected but still hard), upon my return i found my last home rasied killifish dead in the tank, and i am now missing one of my hypergastro, i fear that one is now dead...so i'm down to 3 gastro and on 1 sewellia. this move has been devastating to my hillstream populations.....


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## lamiskool (Jul 1, 2011)

Sorry to hear about your losses...hopevthings will take a turn for the better though!


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

thank lamiskool, things have actually turned for the better. the next day after my last posting my kuhli loach passed. 

but since then my tangerine tiger population has exploded! i'm seeing more small fry than i ever have. i kind of knew that the killi and kuhli had been snacking on them, but when the TT tank broke i didn't have another option. so i'm excited that I might have a large enough population to begin selling off some from time to time.


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

just marking this article for myself. i found it while trying to find info on breeding my humilis.

2012
http://rmbr.nus.edu.sg/rbz/biblio/s26/Conspectus_cobitidum.pdf

1991
http://www.wdc-jp.biz/pdf_store/isj/publication/pdf/37/374/37402.pdf


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

I recently i was able to get my hands on malawa shrimp again . i'm hoping they will do well in the tank with my Tangerine tigers and RCS.

i also got the chance to pick up 6 more white clouds very cheaply, as a LFS is closing down. The owner wants more free time and is going to close the shop but continue doing service calls. The WCMMs were only 75cents! i was pretty excited. no i have 9 again, and i have to say i forgot how much fun it was to watch those guys school, i'll try to get them video of them having fun in the current sometime.

i'm also in the market for more hillstream loaches, but it is a really bad time to be looking for them as the good ones don't show up much this time of year. so i would be grateful if you guys could help me out and keep your eyes open for me. As always i want Gastromyzon, and Hypergastromyzon, but i'm also curious to try pseudogastromyzon, i haven't had them yet, but they look very cool. my priority is to get some more hypergastro humilis, and gastro Viriosus. i know wetspot has some Psuedo and gastro, but the gastros are usual ones that can be found almost anywhere.

any who here are some photos from last night

post re-scape


Buce in line (yes thats a madagascar lace in the background)




The young Malawa


i was just reminded that i need more otos again, the algae on my glass isn't wiping off anymore :-(


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

i lost my reticulated yesterday! no i am down to my viriosus and 2 humilis. i did fork over to much money to buy a giant african shrimp ( or maybe and overgrown vampire i haven't been able to examine him), but he has been in hiding since going into my tank 5 days ago.

this sucks, i'm so tired of losing fish! I think what makes me the most frustrated is that even if i could find some for sale i can't afford the shipping right now because i'm jobless. if i found some locally i could feel justified using my credit card to buy them, but i can't justify spend $40 on shipping. the tank is not totally desolate, because i was able to get those white clouds dirt cheap, and i have my shrimp, and a few ottos, but its not what the tank was for, its not as exciting as watching hillstreams glide around the granite, or clinging to the rock for dear life. i can't appreciate the tank with out them.


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## Chris_Produces (Feb 19, 2014)

Have you tested your water and narrowed down what is killing off your fish?


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, 30 nitrates. no idea whats up. no ph swings still in that funky color where i assume 7.4-7.6. i know why i lost half my pop back in january, but why they are slowly dying now i have no idea.


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

So on wednesday i have 9 Hypergastromyzon humilis and 1 Gastromyzom viriosus coming in the mail, from none other than Gunpowder Aquatics! i could not be more excited!

i called Richard, to ask him to be on the look out for humilis, and he told me he was a couple days away from taking the hillstream order he had gotten three weeks before out of QT and that he would begin the identifying process soon, and he would let me know if any humilis were in the tank. sure enough a few days later i got a email from him saying he had 9!!! so i snatched up all 9 of them, and not wanting the viriosus to feel lonely i got him a buddy aswell.

also this marks my 2,000th post! good times all around!


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

The Fish are in the tank! They are getting comforatble, so here are a few photos of them. look for better ones in the near future as they get more acclimated to my tank.





how many do you see?


one of my tangerine Tigers during feeding time






This is my favorite, I've never seen a Viriosus color like this in person, the back half of the body is all yellow!




and a FTS i'm not happy with the set up, i want to show off all of my anubias and buce in this tank, but its hard with that big ass anubias log, and i don't know what to do with it.


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

did a rescape the other day, and i'm much happier with the set up. the larger anubias fill in the back walls, infront of them i have my buces, and they seem to stand out more infornt of the anubias than alone somewhere. 

i'm still trying to find the best light combo for photos....



buce corner here some are hidden in the back so they can grow out awhile i forget they are back there 


this made me giggle when i saw it. i watched them, until the oto hit the eye on my bamboo, the bamboo flinched and the oto went flying! it was very funny.


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

*Mating?!*

so i have been examining the heads of my viriosus, and i noticed that their heads look very different, most likely a regional type thing, but i have been trying to get two good headshots to document it.


i can only get a good photo of this guy.

this is the best i can get of this one



so this morning i'm doing my usual trying to get a good photo of the head, when i saw what looks to be mating!



this has been going on all morning, and i am pretty positive it is mating. territory battles are more violent(This is a territory battle in one of my tanks many years ago).


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## AquaAurora (Jul 10, 2013)

Lovely tank and fauna, the linked territorial battle made me laugh, they look so cute and silly.


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

thanks, i really miss those two they were my very first hillstreams. i've learned a lot about their care since those guys, i lost them because i had no idea what i was doing.

anyway all of those anubias i ordered are stuffed into that tank, and are doing very well! the heterophylla has a couple holes in it i think a loach snacked on it. my hastifolia has new leaf growing out, and it is a beautiful golden color! i'll try get a good photo of it when it opens.

and finally i got a good photo of my other viriosus for comparing.


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

picked up this guys for $4 today!!



also my buce is going to flower today, i'll add a photo of that later.

i ended up moving my inle loach to another tank. i had known for sometime that he was a threat to my tangerine tiger shrimp but i had hoped that since he was the only one eating them my population would be okay. Sadly that was not the case, he is a voracious eater who made a huge dent in my TT population. so i moved him in to my 20L.

my TTs have already responded by coming out of hiding


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## AquaAurora (Jul 10, 2013)

Nice find for $4! Real healthy long roots and not noticeable algae form the photo.


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

it has little gsa on a couple old leaves but nothing very bad, or unexpected. i had been by a few weeks ago asking if it was for sale, and they said not yet they wanted it to grow out a little more. he pulled that piece out, and said $5, which i would have paid, but i asked if he would do $4, he debated it for a minute and said okay! a steal all the way around! i'm gonna try get some more in a from him and try to cover this piece of wood i have.


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## DillZPickleZ (Nov 3, 2013)

Really awesome tank. Love the journal. I have recently began my hillstream tank as well and i hope to get a lot like you. Any thoughts on getting some gobies (stiphodons) for the tank. I have a few and they are awesome in a river tank!!


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

thanks dill!! when i'm buying them locally i always select the ones that look the most different from everyone else in that tank. on-line i've only ever purchased them from Gunpowder Aquatics, wetspot has them for sale quite often, but i've never really been totally happy their customer service. Not say i have anything against wetspot, but i'm just happier with gunpowder.

I have seen lots of people do gobies with Hillstreams, and it works out very well. that was actually my plan when i moved out here to florida. I was going to catch me a wild goby and put it in my hillstream tank. but when my Tiger tank broke, my hillstream tank was the only place they would do well in. So, there went the goby idea.


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## AquaAurora (Jul 10, 2013)

I went to a lfs and petsmart today and was surprised to find bamboo shrimp (listed as a crayfish) and a variety of these loaches (most simular to the first photo of your first post in this thread) but it was marked as "hong kong pleco"... told the fish department person its labeled wrong, they knew, but aren't allowed to correct it.. they also said another store sold them as .. "fresh water flounders" ... morons.
I was half tempted to grab both and toss my still undecided 20g long stocking idea (was leaning towards otos, gold ram, and cherry barb) out but I don't know anything about keeping either of these so I resisted.... But I'm tempted to go to the local landscaping/quarry place and get some large smooth rocks for the tank and try them out... Are yours (shrimp and loaches) jumpers? What are your tank params at?


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

AquaAurora said:


> I went to a lfs and petsmart today and was surprised to find bamboo shrimp (listed as a crayfish) and a variety of these loaches (most simular to the first photo of your first post in this thread) but it was marked as "hong kong pleco"... told the fish department person its labeled wrong, they knew, but aren't allowed to correct it.. they also said another store sold them as .. "fresh water flounders" ... morons.
> I was half tempted to grab both and toss my still undecided 20g long stocking idea (was leaning towards otos, gold ram, and cherry barb) out but I don't know anything about keeping either of these so I resisted.... But I'm tempted to go to the local landscaping/quarry place and get some large smooth rocks for the tank and try them out... Are yours (shrimp and loaches) jumpers? What are your tank params at?



of course they had them labeled wrong :-( if they are like the first photo they are gastromyzon, probably gastromyzon punctulatus or gastromyzon scitulus. i started looking at lanscaping quarrys, found some good rocks, but nothing in the color i wanted lol. they can tell you what is limestone or not.

i've had them jump during ammonia spikes.

my ph is like 7.4 or so, nitrates around 40-70. gh 20+ kh 12 or something

hope that helps....also check your inbox, i sent ya a long response.


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## AquaAurora (Jul 10, 2013)

Aquatic Delight said:


> of course they had them labeled wrong :-( if they are like the first photo they are gastromyzon, probably gastromyzon punctulatus or gastromyzon scitulus. i started looking at lanscaping quarrys, found some good rocks, but nothing in the color i wanted lol. they can tell you what is limestone or not.
> 
> i've had them jump during ammonia spikes.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the info here and in the pm! Very informative, always like hearing directly from an owner to find out a bit more ^^
If I go by that store again I'll snap a photo to get an ID on the exact breed. Had dog with me today and he gets bored when I check out fish.. pulls leash ("i wanna go sniff over there!").. and makes photo taking very difficult.


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

I've been losing my white clouds....i've lost 5 over last couple weeks. its a bummer, and i'm not sure what the issue is. it is what it is.

anyway i was thinking about switching over to another nano fish to occupy the open water. i was thinking about cpds but i don't know. i just know i want to move away from white clouds for now. the tank is generally running above 75degrees so i can go with a tropical fish. two concerns to watch out for while picking a fish for this set-up, i need small mouths that are some what shrimp safe because i have the tangerine tigers in that tank, and also the tank has a lot of flow so long finned fish wouldn't survive well in this set up.

any thoughts?


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

so now i am thinking about redoing the tank a little bit. i want to take the left side of the tank and make it planted. i was thinking about removing a piece of granite from that side and filling it with more sand so that i can scape it in some way. i'm thinking everything left of the spray bar. i don't know what i would do with it but its something i have been tossing around in my head.


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## Stone454 (Jun 1, 2013)

http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/pseudomugil-furcatus/ or any of the other blue eyes are great little fish small mouths, but not always easy to get, aslong as the current is slow/moderate they will do fine, you could probably keep them on their cold range side and the loachs will be fine.


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

Stone454 said:


> aslong as the current is slow/moderate they will do fine.



lol thats gonna be a problem. this tank runs about 800 or 900 gph right now


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## pianofish (Jan 31, 2010)

I've joined your ranks my friend! How is this tank fairing? What fish do you currently have?
When you get a chance check out my new tank journal and tell me what you think.
Joshua


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

Welcome! your tank looks great man! best of luck in your care for them


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

so i haven't been very active on the boards lately as i dont


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

Before


Rescape. i removed some granite pieces to make more room for plants 



This looked much nicer on my phone, but i have three flowers from two buce!






Mutated pa nang in the front, green gecko in the back


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

i just realized its been a little over two months since i've updated on this journal. i haven't been as active on the forums since i moved to florida, life has been pretty busy as of late. and i've let my tank inhabitants die out without replacing them :-( shame on me. i have had a lot of trouble keeping filter feeding shrimp here, i blame our water, but i think it has more to do with the wild temp fluctuations in my tank than the water, which i think is also why i'm having trouble keeping hillstreams alive. I'm currently living in a manufactured home that has little to no insulation, so house temp fluctuates a lot. i really need to pick up a chiller, or i have thought about buying a small fridge and running water lines through it some how. 

just a small update. i've got other things to do but the tank is still alive.


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## AquaAurora (Jul 10, 2013)

Sorry for your losses :c gl setting up a way to stabilize termperture!


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

been awhile again lol. 

the LFS here in my area has been getting in hillstream loachs, and i can't resist myself (even as over priced as they are). they are Beaufortia kweichowensis, of which i had never kept before. about two weeks ago i had a really bad day at work and i stopped in the lfs to clear my head a bit, as i walking around just looking at all the fish and plants, i saw a tag that said "hillstream loach $14.99" i got really excited, until i started looking in the tank to see what kind they had, hoping it was gastromyzon, and not a Sewellia. i saw nothing and started to get a little depressed. then i saw one come swimming out from behind a rock. it was the last one so i snatched it up. i ask if they were getting more and the answer was yes on thursday, so i returned friday only to learn they didn't actually get any in. then yesterday i stopped in just for the heck of it and they had two more!!! so my tank is up to 3 hypergastro humilis and 3 Beaufortia kweichowensis.




sadly they are they shyest hillstreams i have kept, but i'm hoping with time they will become more friendly.

i've also picked up some dwarf cories to add a little life in the tank. i'm not going to replacing the white cloud population, i've decided i'm going to go in another direction once they all die off, and the tank had gotten a little stale. the addition of the dwarf cories has really brought the tank back to life, i've got 6 in the tank now.

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and finally they anubias and buce have been in constant flower mod for the last 2 or 3 months now. i have a buce that the old flower hadn't even finish its showing and a new one was developing. its pretty awesome.


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

Just tested my water stuffs, someone in SCAPS asked me about them them i tested, and i'm shocked how much some numbers have come down. my PH is down my GH and KH are down aswell. TDS is high but i'm 4 days past due on my water change

PH 6.8-7.0
GH 3
KH 2
Phosphate .25ppmish
TDS 209


very different from around this time last year

Ph 7.4
GH 14
KH 1


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

*A Big Announcement*

I have been in debate about what to do with my hillstream tank. I love these fish, i really do, but half of the year I can not find the ones i want, and my population shrinks. when i am able to find them i have to buy them in bulk, which is expensive, because who knows when they will show up again. 

Also i hear this complaint from my girlfriend "I don't like your tanks, they are all green" which is a compliment to me, but a complaint to her. 

My debate has brought me to this. i have a 20L housing Clown killifish, that i want in a bigger tank so I can have a large schooling fish like CPDs. i can not currently put a school of CPDs, or any other fish that i want in my 40b (Hillstream tank) because in addition to the cooler temps and HIGH flow i also keep Tangerine Tigers in the tank. 

I also miss keeping apistos.

and Finally i'm not allowed to get another tank.


So here is my answer.

I will break down/transfer my hillstreams and Shrimp out of the 40b, and in to the Killis 20L. 

The Clown Killifish, and pygmy cories, will be moved into the 40B which will get a Apisto, large school of small fish (such as CPD) and go CO2 High light to keep less green plants, and get more color. ( also remove the white sand and replace it with Eco-Complete)

This allows me to Keep the hillstreams i love so much, get a tank with more colorful fish and plants, including keeping plants i have not been able to keep due to lack of light and CO2.

I'm excited. i don't have a timetable on when all of this will take place. i'm thinking i will do it right, and get everything i need to build the tanks the right way, and then spend two days doing it.

i am moving into my first home at the end of may, so maybe in June after the move.


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## mysticalnet (Dec 2, 2007)

Good luck with the move!


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

Good luck with the move! I loved that Ataya shrimp, they're so cool!


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## majerah1 (Nov 6, 2010)

Good luck with the move, and good luck with higher demanding plants! Please do a journal on the two new builds


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

mysticalnet said:


> Good luck with the move!





Phil Edwards said:


> Good luck with the move! I loved that Ataya shrimp, they're so cool!





majerah1 said:


> Good luck with the move, and good luck with higher demanding plants! Please do a journal on the two new builds



thank all of you for the good wishes. 

i'll try to take some photos and keep you updated on the build....i tend to get so caught up in building the tanks i forget to take photos...


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

the 40b has been broken down, and rebulit. it is no longer my hillstream tank. the hillstream tank will resurface as 20L....up dates and photos will be coming in a week or so.


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## The Dude (Feb 8, 2011)

Tanks look awesome. I'm looking forward to seeing what you will do with the 40b


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

just a couple quick ones. work has been busy so i haven't finished making this tank look perfect. but i get everything in it!


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

Whelp the Hillstream tank is over and done with.

i used a new Water refill place to get my RO water, and my tank crashed. i lost my entire hillstream population, basically all of my Tangerine tigers, all of my snails and one of my bamboo shrimp.

i'm so pissed off, and furusterated. but mostly i'm sad. i loved those fish. its been so difficult keeping hillstreams since i moved to florida, i just can't take losing anymore of them. 

so it is with a heavy heart that i announce, i am getting out of the hillstream game. 

i'm going to keep dwarf cichlids for a little while and maybe in a few years i'll do hillstreams again, but for now i just can't take losing them again.


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## AquaAurora (Jul 10, 2013)

I'm very sorry for your loss :c Hope things go well with the dwarf cichlids. Did your plants survive the crash or have a mass melt?


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## BoxxerBoyDrew (Oct 16, 2005)

WOW, SORRY that happened!!! Sometimes what you are sold as r/o isn't r/o! It has happened to me before!

Best of Luck with the Cichlids though! They should LOVE the Florida Water!

Take Care,
Drew


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

AquaAurora said:


> I'm very sorry for your loss :c Hope things go well with the dwarf cichlids. Did your plants survive the crash or have a mass melt?


i only had A. Bateri and Bolbitus heudelotii in that tank and thank fully i didn't lose plants.



BoxxerBoyDrew said:


> WOW, SORRY that happened!!! Sometimes what you are sold as r/o isn't r/o! It has happened to me before!
> 
> Best of Luck with the Cichlids though! They should LOVE the Florida Water!
> 
> ...



yup :-( its dumb. thank you for the well wishes


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## WaterLife (Jul 1, 2015)

Hi Will. Sorry to hear about the fish. 

Hillstream suckerbody loaches are my favorite fish (other favorites, but if I had to pick just one). Too sleepy right now to read through the whole thread, but how exactly did the RO water crash your tank? Was it just regular chlorinated water and so the chlorine killed off your beneficial bacteria? I could see possibly the inverts dying from non RI water (toxic minerals in non-RO water)
You mentioned other problems with losing hillstream loaches, what were they? (Florida heat? I will try to read thru later)

I keep several species of them and have had them successfully breed (very cool, I like the body transformations the developing young go thru, they look completely different). They look cool and are fun to watch them do their non-harmful dominance "battles".
Haha very cool.
Sorry again about the tank crash.


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

Don't get me wrong it could have been something other than the R/O water. but it is the most likely scenario. Using water from a new machine, with TDS that was almost 400 instead of 0ish. i don't use Prime in my RO tanks so there could have been Chlorine or other toxic metals, which is totally possible since i lost my shrimp and snail population the tank as well. the crash begin sometime the night of the water change

the troubles i have had were in deed heat related. the place i first moved into, before i bought my home, was a manufactured and the inside air temp in the day would hover around 90 with the A/C set at 76. 

when i lived in texas i was able to succsesfully keep 17 Hillstreams in my 40b with no losses. the exact same set up here in florida couldn't even keep 3 alive in florida.....


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## Aquatic Delight (Mar 2, 2012)

Im thinking about getting back into the the hillstream game. I got my hands in a 40g tank and stand. 

I have been thinking aboug skipping the smooth rock bottom, and doing bare bottom front with a divider and then black eco complet with plants, kind of like an underwater river bank. Using some spider wood i recreate tree roots hanging into the river, would just look cool, not a normal part of theor habit.

I think that the flow outside of the river bed would be weak enough that i could keep cpds in the tank with them. I have kept cpds in a tank with hillstreams before and it worked well. 

My big hang up now is wood. Ive ben trying to find someone who can sell me wood in bulk. Which i have been unable to do. I want to to get a lot of wood and sort through to find the perfect piece. 



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk


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