# Need help with algae in low-tech tank



## rcs0926 (Jun 14, 2013)

What kind of light fixture do you have, and how long are the lights on? Also, what kind of plants do you have?


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## ForensicFish (May 19, 2013)

How long has your tank been set up?

Couple things (just my opinions),

Your tank is over stocked. Angel fish and bolivian rams are larger sized fish. And I love cory's as much as the next person, but they are poop factories. So given the amount of fish waste and the amount of food your are feeding, you are introducing a lot of organic wasted that your biological bacteria colony can't remove. With your light being so low, your plants do not have the growth rates to take in all the excess nitrates.

You need to do larger water changes. Java moss also harbors a lot of organic waste. Every time you do a water change, I would recommend you shaking out your java moss and vacuuming up the mulm caught in it.

HOB filters are convenient, but I have found through my experience that they do not provide adequate water flow through out the whole tank regardless of their GPH. Algae have a tendency to grow in areas that are stagnant or have little water flow.

So to combat your algae you can do a couple of things. First I would try a black out for a few days along with doing large daily water changes making sure to get a lot of the mulm in your java fern and any excess on your substrate. Second, I would try to manually remove as much algae as I could using your fingers, brush or scissors. You can also spot treat your algae with doses of H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide).

But in all, I believe you are overstocked fish wise which is leading to your algae problems.


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## Chris_Produces (Feb 19, 2014)

I know one thing I don't like about that advisor (Which I know that's all it is). It doesn't take into account your plant stock. It's a cool tool though, maybe just take it with a grain of salt if you have lots of live plants in your tank. Also doesn't take into account things like the use of Fluvals Biomax or Purigen by Seachem.


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## rcs0926 (Jun 14, 2013)

Chris_Produces said:


> I know one thing I don't like about that advisor (Which I know that's all it is). It doesn't take into account your plant stock. It's a cool tool though, maybe just take it with a grain of salt if you have lots of live plants in your tank. Also doesn't take into account things like the use of Fluvals Biomax or Purigen by Seachem.


I think the advisor would blow up if I entered my data. I'm way overstocked due to all the guppy fry I have in my tank. For some reason, my adult guppies aren't very hungry for fry. You would think that my fish would just devour fry especially since I don't feed every day. However, that isn't the case. I had a small batch of fry born yesterday, and although they are skittish around the bigger fish, none of them have been attacked.


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## King of Hyrule (Apr 29, 2013)

Tell us about your lights. 
What are you using for substrate? 
Are you using a filter if so what kind (how big)?
How often do your clean your filter?

Post a picture of the whole tank.


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## JHart (Mar 8, 2014)

low flow, an excess of bottled fertilizers, and unprocessed organic waste by the plants are mostly to blame. addressing these factors is a good place to start from. 

in your case, taking the gravel vacuum lightly to the top layer of your substrate on your next few water changes would be a step in the right direction. it wouldn't hurt to reduce your stocking levels too, unfortunately.

without sufficient water movement nutrients aren't evenly distributed for your plants, which can cause patches of unwanted algae growth too. i'd suggest laying off the liquid ferts for now.. not until the tank gets cleaned up a bit, and the bio load reduced.

more pictures and your other water parameters can bring more suggestions!

best of luck

first post, yay.


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## EvilFish (Oct 15, 2013)

Thanks for the answers!!!

*rcs*


> What kind of light fixture do you have, and how long are the lights on? Also, what kind of plants do you have?


1x T8 6700K 20W. 7-8h.

My plants:
Anubias, Crypts, Swords, Rotala, Hydro, Brazillian Penny, Java Ball, Java Moss, Java Fern.

*ForensicFish*


> How long has your tank been set up?


5 monts.



> Couple things (just my opinions),


You're probably right. But I had a big brown and hair algae problem even without any fishes.
The new one is Green spot and Blue-Green. I guess it infected my tank with the plants/shrimps. I had a 2g tank with 7 fishes, no plants and without algae (exept brown).

Do you think I need a better lighting? Like a low-tech medium (2W/G)? 
Or/and use Nitrate/Phospate removal media?

One more question, it's OK to put 240GPH powerheat at the upper level of the tank? Or better at the bottom to remove more waste? Any advise on that?

*Chris*


> Also doesn't take into account things like the use of Fluvals Biomax or Purigen by Seachem.


I use Purigen and Matrix. Nitrate levels are the same.


*King of Hyrule*


> Tell us about your lights.
> What are you using for substrate?
> Are you using a filter if so what kind (how big)?
> How often do your clean your filter?


1. 1x T8 6700K 20W. 7-8h.
2. Eco-complete and I never vacuum it (hard with the planted tank).
3. 2x Fluval C3 (150GPH each) with the Filter Floss, Seachem Matrix and the Purigen.
4. Every second day, it's suffers from brown algae or tannin (I guess more from tannin).

Picture of my tank (2 weeks ago):








Airstone already remove, second HOB added near the heater.









Any idea about the algae number 4 (I attached 3 pictures in the first post)?

*JHart*


> low flow, an excess of bottled fertilizers, and unprocessed organic waste by the plants are mostly to blame.


Without those ferts my plants suffers (holes on the anubias, yellow leafs on crypts). I didn't dose anything for 2-3 week with no effect on algae...

Maybe I need to cut it off again (except Excel)?

My water flow (no idea if the powerhead position is good):









Do you suggest to run the powerhead 24h? It's OK for my fishes? Right now I run it on timer 8h daily, but not every day.


ps. any idea about Nitrate reading? 40 on room light and 20 on sunlight...


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## EvilFish (Oct 15, 2013)

If I'll install Current USA Satellite Freshwater LED+ Fixture (28 PAR for 18' tank), it will be much better that T8 20W bulb?

Plants will take much more nitrates?

Thanks


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## EvilFish (Oct 15, 2013)

Better picture of identified algae:


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## JHart (Mar 8, 2014)

You should have sufficient flow with the two hob filters.

Instead of spending money on nitrate and phosphate removers get into the areas of lower water movement with a gravel vacuum, especially where there aren't any plants or where debris is smothering plant roots, these are commonly called dead spots. 

Adding more light at this point may pose additional challenges. 

Either way at 20 or 40 ppm you're due for a water change. 

kH and gH are critical parameters for successful plant growth as well, make sure they are within acceptable ranges for plants.


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## Careful (Mar 26, 2013)

EvilFish said:


> If I'll install Current USA Satellite Freshwater LED+ Fixture (28 PAR for 18' tank), it will be much better that T8 20W bulb?
> 
> Plants will take much more nitrates?
> 
> Thanks


This will probably go against what other people say, but I would Definitely get a different light. At 18" a single bulb is just not enough light for your plants to grow and compete with algae and remove nutrients from the water (giving you the high nitrates). Too low light can cause algae just as well as high light can. Also, I don't know if this is actually a thing or not but it seems like my tanks with 6700k bulbs grow algae more than those with different spectrums (sadly my other bulb doesn't tell what spectrum it is). So yes, get the Current Satellite + light (also because it's a really cool gadget) and see if that helps. It will definitely make your plants grow better!

Also your tank looks really good! Love the driftwood and plant layout!


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## King of Hyrule (Apr 29, 2013)

My advice: *Stop* with the fertilizers - all of them. At this point you're feeding the algae. The Eco-complete (CEC) is likely max'd out and can continue feeding your plants (and Algae) for some time. 

Clean the filters weekly, try to get all the organic matter out of there. Your tank is covered in nitrifying bacteria and will be able to handle the amino load. (test often to be sure). Maybe try a product like SeaChem Phosguard or Fluval Clear Max, to help clear out the water. 

So here is where I'm mixed. I have stopped with the my own weekly water changes for my overstocked 29G, and crazy enough my water test got better and my algae diminished. (I do complete a monthly water change of about 30-50%.) I don't dose any fertilizers, as I have a dirt'd tank (capped with Eco-complete, which is leaching nutrients in to the water, from the soil.) I think a big water change for you is in order - it resets the tank. Frankly I'm would suggest maybe holding off on your water changes, after the big one, and just testing your water to watch the levels. just keep those filters clear of organic matter. 

Feeder shrimp! Get a few bucks worth of feeder shrimp, they (while they live) will help with the algae and snails. Snails can help with algae too, and if they tank over your tank, get a pea puffer to help knock their numbers back.

By the way (and yeah, I typed that out) nice looking tank.


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## ForensicFish (May 19, 2013)

Just because one thing works for someone else doesn't mean it will work for you and vice versa.

This forum is here for people to bounce ideas off one another, learn a few things and ask for others opinions. But at the end of the day, the only way you find out what works and what doesn't is for you to do it yourself and observe the results. Once you have one aspect figured out, you move on to the next.

Patience is a virtue and in the world of planted aquariums, the only virtue.


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## the_Chad (Mar 11, 2014)

EvilFish said:


> Hi,
> 
> My low tech tank suffers from algae. It's very low light (0.7W/g).
> 
> ...


Planted tanks low tech and high are about balance, and something's a bit out of whack here. I would suggest a rockn maintenance crew. You have Coridora , I would recommend a Pleco. Rubber lip is a good small additive. A few Otocinulas if the tank is well established. Snails; mystery snails and trumpet. All these would aid in cleaning decaying organic matter, and eating some algae's. 

With all these algae's the system is unbalanced. 1st comes to mind is unstable carbon dioxide levels coupled with lighting issues. This is where I would start trouble shooting. It could be other deficiencies but this is where I would start. 

High levels of nitrates in a planted tank tells me photosynthesis is not optimal. We all know plants eat nitrates. So, my mind reverts back to lighting. 

How old is your bulb? If it's more than 10 months old perhaps consider replacing it. I recommend a bulb in the 6,500-7K. A single T8 in a 29 gallon? I would consider doubling that!
This will kick the photosynthesis into gear, and may take care of some, if not most of the nitrate issues. I'll bet at that time these weird algae's will begin to go away.

I believe the algae in question is called STAGHORN. All algae's on your list point to unstable CO2, and issues with lighting. 

Good luck!


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## EvilFish (Oct 15, 2013)

Careful, thanks! 

King of Hyrule, I'll buy 1-2 bamboo shrimp. 

the_Chad, thanks

So, my task list:
1. Green spot algae. Check the phosphates level. Why it can be low? 
2. Staghorn algae. Overdose excel. 2-3x. Starting slowly. 
3. Brown algae. Higher light will eliminate it. 
4. Blue-green algae. Antibiotic. 
5. Possible 40 nitrates. 50% WC weekly. Higher light will reduce it too (via plants).

Sounds good?


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

1/16th tsp KNO3 once a week.
1/16th tsp KH2PO4 once a week.
1/16th tsp flourish comprehensive twice a week.
Excel once a day as directed.
Feed fish once a day,or every other day.
Keep filter's cleaned monthly.50% weekly water change.


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## ForensicFish (May 19, 2013)

the_Chad said:


> Planted tanks low tech and high are about balance, and something's a bit out of whack here. I would suggest a rockn maintenance crew. You have Coridora , I would recommend a Pleco. Rubber lip is a good small additive. A few Otocinulas if the tank is well established. Snails; mystery snails and trumpet. All these would aid in cleaning decaying organic matter, and eating some algae's.
> 
> With all these algae's the system is unbalanced. 1st comes to mind is unstable carbon dioxide levels coupled with lighting issues. This is where I would start trouble shooting. It could be other deficiencies but this is where I would start.
> 
> ...


While I agree that adding some cleaner shrimp such as Amano's and possibly even Cherry shrimp will help battle the Algae, I have to disagree with the bamboo shrimp and the idea of a pleco (ottos are good though).

First, bamboo shrimp get very large and are more inclined to feed off the water column than consume algae. You will notice bamboo shrimp with position themselves in areas of flow with all of their "feathers" out filtering the water column. You already have an issue with nitrates etc. while plecos are decent and cleaning spot algae, they are huge poop factories which only contribute to the overabundance of dissolved organic matter that you already have issues with.


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## Chris_Produces (Feb 19, 2014)

ForensicFish said:


> ...Patience is a virtue and in the world of planted aquariums, the only virtue.


Isn't that the truth:fish:


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## EvilFish (Oct 15, 2013)

So, bamboo shrimp rise the bioload? How much? 
I read in many sources that shrimp not rise a bioload.


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## EvilFish (Oct 15, 2013)

Green spot algae is related to low phosphates. How it's possible in good stocked tank?


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## ForensicFish (May 19, 2013)

I did not say that bamboo shrimp will raise your bioload. I said I do not believe bamboo shrimp will help you combat the algae.

Any kind of algae is related to an imbalance of nutrients which is exaggerated when your lighting is too high or too low if you add ferts. Somewhere along the algae information highway, it has been correlated that green spot algae is related to low phosphates. Perhaps it is, but just having low phosphates alone will not cause green spot algae. There has to be an imbalance. If you have high nitrates and low phosphates then I can understand the correlation.


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## ForensicFish (May 19, 2013)

A pleco will surely raise your bioload.


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## the_Chad (Mar 11, 2014)

EvilFish said:


> Careful, thanks!
> 
> King of Hyrule, I'll buy 1-2 bamboo shrimp.
> 
> ...


Ill bet with a bit more lighting many of the other issues may fade away. If photosynthesis is kicked up a notch the plants will start consuming all those other chemicals that are feeding the algae's. I believe in the original post somewhere it is stated there is .4W per gal? Or something like that. Kick that up to 1 or maybe 1.5W per gallon. This is considered low light by many standards. 

Blue green algae; It seems I get this in my tanks if there is inadequate water flow and low CO2 levels.


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## EvilFish (Oct 15, 2013)

My lighting is 0.7W/G. 
I'll buy LED Satellite LED+, 28PAR. 

I'll use antibiotic for combat Blue-green. Erythromycin. It's safe for filter and invert. 

What is benefits of bamboo shrimp?


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## the_Chad (Mar 11, 2014)

EvilFish said:


> My lighting is 0.7W/G.
> I'll buy LED Satellite LED+, 28PAR.
> 
> I'll use antibiotic for combat Blue-green. Erythromycin. It's safe for filter and invert.
> ...


Erythromycin is safe for inverts. Product found at your LFS should have instructions and read what it may harm. The stuff I have says its harmful to Tetras and instructs to use half dosage. Im sure you are already aware but try to pull out as much Blue /green algae as you can before treatment. This helps with the process. 

Bamboo Shrimp to me are more ornamental than functional as a cleaner. They look cool though!


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## Marshallshred85 (Sep 9, 2013)

I think The Chad hit the nail on the head with his posts! It defintely staghorn. I've battled staghorn for quite some time, and the best thing that I have done, Is increase the CO2 and have the right amount of light to match and also flow across the tank. Also are you disturbing the substrate often? I know that leads to it as well. Green spot is usually low phosphate. Not to get into a debate but do not be afraid of phosphate, it does not produce algae. Whats your feeding schedule like? 

Also do manual removal as much as possible any Infected leaves with GSA, BGA, Staghorn, and even all bad looking leaves. this will allow you plants to focus energy on growth, when they are covered in algae they get smothered.


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## EvilFish (Oct 15, 2013)

So, first results.
The light 6h daily.
No ferts exept liquid carbon. Not yet overdose.
40% WC (max that I can do righ now).
Filter cleaning every 1-2 days.

1. Some holes appeared on anubias.
2. Staghorn algae fells fine. It become mush stronger on anubias and amazon sword.
3. Nitrate level are the same, 1-2 days after WC or 4-5 days - same thing. Always 40 (or 20 if looking on daylight).
4. Blue-green algae fells much worse and growing very slowly.
5. Green spot - no difference.
6. Brown algae - no difference.

I'm always waiting for the LED and phosphates test kit.

I attached some pics.


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## King of Hyrule (Apr 29, 2013)

*try balck water (tannin).*

I discovered that a black water tank, doesn’t have algae*. My office tank is subjected to a lot of sunlight, from the wall on floor to ceiling windows I have in my office. In the past this would mean algae, and lots of it. I have recently converted my to a black water tank so time ago, in hopes of getting my Chili Rasboras to bread (no luck there). 

*This is based on my one tank, that would routinely see algae outbreaks. One I converted the tank to a black water (by adding Tannin via dried banana leaves) the algae is completely gone, not a trace of it. The die off of the algae could be a result of the drop in pH, of the increased softness of the water, or the reduced light in the tank or a combination of all three. 

I’ve been using dried banana leaves (from around my office building), to lower the pH and softness of the water (with tannin). I use a blender to grind the dried leaves into small pieces (about 2-5mm in diameter). I store the leaf bits in a glass jar, and pour hot distilled water to make “Tannin Tea”. I allow the leaf tea for a few days to weeks, until the leaf bits all sink. I’ve put the leaf bits in the tank with tweezers. The Cory Cats love the leaf litter. The water gets really dark. I then add a little bit of the remaining “Tannin tea” to the tank until I get the water where I like it.

If you don’t have access to dried banana leaves, (not everyone lives on a tropical island) you can order a product like Fluval’s peat granules, online. Make sure your fish will be safe with a lower pH and softer water, before changing your water with peat. Tannin, which is the stuff that leaches out of hardwood and has a natural anti-fungal, anti-bacteria element. It’s what keeps hardwood from breaking down quickly in water. I think the tannin block the algae from growing. 

Tannis can be bought in number of forms, peat, extract and you can even get it from driftwood. I’ve seen black water extract onlines (I think Tetra makes some), peat pellets (or granules) would work, and you can order dried almond leaves online too.


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## PeterN1986 (Jun 15, 2011)

Cut off ALL dead/dying leaves and ALL leaves/sections with algae on them and toss em. Be aggressive and then be patient. The plants will recover and grow back more vigorously. With the Sat+ coming, that will help too.


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## EvilFish (Oct 15, 2013)

Friends, it's Staghorn for sure or BBA?


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## King of Hyrule (Apr 29, 2013)

EvilFish, how easy does it come off the plants and what are your water test results?


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## EvilFish (Oct 15, 2013)

Definitely not easy. 
Ammonia, nitrite - 0. Nitrate hard to read, 10-30.


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## King of Hyrule (Apr 29, 2013)

BBA, Staghorn is more stick lick, brakes off easy. 

I'll bet that the BBA is leaving off the high nitrates. I've been using Fluval Lab Series Nitrate Remover to knock down my nitrates and starve my algae out. Its reduced my nitrate level from 40-80 to 0 over night. The plants are doing alright, but I'm keeping my eye on them.


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## EvilFish (Oct 15, 2013)

Another algae take the control of my tank and make it look very dirty.

I need help! CO2 injection doesn't help


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