# Not sure which substrate...



## Blackheart (Jul 5, 2011)

I've tried both Eco complete and Flourite substrates in the past with my planted tanks and even though I do like the Flourite a bit more, I'd like to try something different... Something that looks good, isn't extremely dirty and at least provides some nutrients to plants preferably. Any ideas?

So far, the substrate I have considered most recently is sand. Particularly Black Tahitian moon sand. I know that a million people are gonna suggest black diamond blasting sand, but that's not a route I'm going down. I've heard it can be horribly dirty and I'd like something that's actually geared towards aquariums.


----------



## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Blackheart said:


> I've tried both Eco complete and Flourite substrates in the past with my planted tanks and even though I do like the Flourite a bit more, I'd like to try something different... Something that looks good, isn't extremely dirty and at least provides some nutrients to plants preferably. Any ideas?
> 
> So far, the substrate I have considered most recently is sand. Particularly Black Tahitian moon sand. I know that a million people are gonna suggest black diamond blasting sand, but that's not a route I'm going down. I've heard it can be horribly dirty and I'd like something that's actually geared towards aquariums.


You're right a lot of us will tell you blasting grit. It's not really all that dirty, just rinse it a few times in a 5 gallon bucket and you're done. Frankly blasting sand with some homemade root tabs has more nutrients in it than both the Flourite and the overpriced crushed lava rock they call Eco Complete. I'm also not someone who buys sands that are "geared" towards aquariums because IMO they are all overpriced silica sand which can be purchased elsewhere at a fraction of the cost. 

Just my $0.02😁


----------



## Blackheart (Jul 5, 2011)

Gee I guess it's my fault for asking lol


----------



## Watercrayfish (Apr 21, 2016)

If money is not a factor 
ADA Aquasoil “Amazonia”


----------



## d33pVI (Oct 28, 2015)

Have you tried the Flourite sand? My tank is a mix of Flourite black sand and blasting grit. Great for planting in, way better than the courser gravels or Eco.


----------



## maxhrbal (Mar 19, 2016)

Well the moon sand from caribsea has no nutrients in it nor the capacity to "hold" nutrients...to my knowledge. I also use fluorite black sand and I love it. Have to use root tabs for a few months but once it's established, it's great. I've used both Seachem and caribsea products with success, but if you're looking for nutrients, a lot of enthusiasts like the ADA stuff if you're willing to get into that or dirt or something. 
Anyway I feel as though any three substrates mentioned will work great, I know you don't want anything dirty and I think dirt may actually be dirty sometimes... in conclusion I suggest the moon sand from caribsea or the fluorite black sand from Seachem. My vote is fluorite black sand!
Oh and how dare you...blasting grit is the only way to go, you're crazy if you use something else...just kidding. I also stay clear of blasting grit for the time being. Just my preference for now. Nothing wrong with buying what YOU want.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Blackheart (Jul 5, 2011)

maxhrbal said:


> Well the moon sand from caribsea has no nutrients in it nor the capacity to "hold" nutrients...to my knowledge. I also use fluorite black sand and I love it. Have to use root tabs for a few months but once it's established, it's great. I've used both Seachem and caribsea products with success, but if you're looking for nutrients, a lot of enthusiasts like the ADA stuff if you're willing to get into that or dirt or something.
> Anyway I feel as though any three substrates mentioned will work great, I know you don't want anything dirty and I think dirt may actually be dirty sometimes... in conclusion I suggest the moon sand from caribsea or the fluorite black sand from Seachem. My vote is fluorite black sand!
> Oh and how dare you...blasting grit is the only way to go, you're crazy if you use something else...just kidding. I also stay clear of blasting grit for the time being. Just my preference for now. Nothing wrong with buying what YOU want.


I could easily add root tabs and use liquid ferts to give some nutrients. Yeah I don't like everyone telling me what I should get like you said, I'd like to actually purchase what I want lol

I was also considering pool filter sand. A lot of people use it and love it. I've seen some people who grow plants in it somehow easily and don't use any kind of root tabs or anything.


----------



## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Blackheart said:


> I could easily add root tabs and use liquid ferts to give some nutrients. Yeah I don't like everyone telling me what I should get like you said, I'd like to actually purchase what I want lol
> 
> I was also considering pool filter sand. A lot of people use it and love it. I've seen some people who grow plants in it somehow easily and don't use any kind of root tabs or anything.


Look I'm not here to tell you what to get, it's your tank, it's your money you can get whatever you want. All I'm saying is before you go out and spend gobs of money on so called "planted substrate", try something that's waaaaaay cheaper and has been proven that plants will grow in. PFS and blasting grit are of different make ups, but it's really the same, an inert substance. You will get the same results with either one of them and it will just boil down to what color substrate you want between the two. I have both and have used Eco and Flourite as well. I can tell you hands down I've had more success with the two cheaper options and they're both way easier to deal with when it comes to maintenance and especially planting in. 

Let me ask you one simple question. Would you be willing to gamble $9 to try before dumping a ton of money on and aquarium substrate?

Picture below is of my 40b before I turned it into a biotope and it had blasting sand.


----------



## FishStix (Sep 19, 2013)

I have the moon sand for new 180 I am about to setup, but I was also given it for free. I don't care for the blasting media, not sure why, I just bought a few bags in the past and poked my fingers with stuff in the bag. So I am kinda torn as well, I want darker color in my tank, so I am either going to use the moon sand, since it free, or buy ADA Aquasoil “Amazonia” , but my wife might put me in the fish tank if I buy the ADA Aquasoil “Amazonia” 

Bottom line is for me if I can get the plants to grow well with just using the moon sand I would be happy.


----------



## maxhrbal (Mar 19, 2016)

Blackheart said:


> I could easily add root tabs and use liquid ferts to give some nutrients. Yeah I don't like everyone telling me what I should get like you said, I'd like to actually purchase what I want lol
> 
> 
> 
> I was also considering pool filter sand. A lot of people use it and love it. I've seen some people who grow plants in it somehow easily and don't use any kind of root tabs or anything.




Sounds like you know what you're doing, and do your research. I think no matter what you decide on, you'll have success. I've never tried PFS because the PFS around me is very sharp and I've never been able to find "softer " PFS in person...but yeah just like blasting grit, people swear by that as well, plus it's cheap. Again, I personally love fluorite black sand...so that's what you better use. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## klibs (May 1, 2014)

+1 to nlewis...

what does it mean 'made for aquariums'? Is this not just marketing? if black diamond rebranded as 'aquarium substrate' with instructions to rinse before use would you think differently?

basically.. is this not all just marketing? proof is in the results... seen a ton of amazing black diamond tanks and also seen lots of crap eco complete or flourite tanks. IMO performance is negligible and i would rather plant in black diamond all day. consistent grain size, heavy, etc...

how do you know black diamond is horribly dirty? have you ever tried? give me 5 minutes with a garden hose and a 5g bucket and i will prove this is not the case 
no reason to throw out as viable option... if you want to spend 4x more on substrate go for it, there is a reason it is so highly recommended though


----------



## elusive77 (Sep 27, 2016)

I was skeptical about Black Diamond at first too. Blasting grit? Just doesn't sound like it would be good in an aquarium. It has no nutrients for the plants and I was worried that with the dark black color that I would see every little spec of food and detritus. But when I started seeing it in some of the more beautiful tanks on here, I decided to give it a try. I've never regretted the decision. Not only is it very cheap, it is very easy to plant in. Despite my worries it always looks clean. Sure at feeding time I see a lot of food at the bottom, but the fish can see it easily too. So it all gets eaten quickly. The nutrients aren't a problem because the plants can get everything they need through water column dosing. I have since converted several of my friends to it. Like others have said, there is a reason it is always the most recommended substrate.


----------



## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

Going to toss in yet another approval for Black Diamond Blasting Sand (well Black Magic brand in my case). As @klibs mentioned, 5 gallon buck and a garden hose, and I had zero oil or dust issues, and it even floated out all of the too finely grained grit for me. I love not having to wonder if my substrate is going to be exhausted or suck nutrients from the water column, and I have never had an issue with getting things to stay planted in it (unlike other substrates I've used).

The look of it is definitely a personal preference, but the performance and cleanliness has been clearly documented by hundreds of us using it


----------



## maxhrbal (Mar 19, 2016)

CAN NO ONE READ?!?! 
Op clearly knows all about blasting grit...the op never denied it's ease of use or it's capabilities.  

You should re phrase this post because these are the only answers you're going to get.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

maxhrbal said:


> CAN NO ONE READ?!?!
> Op clearly knows all about blasting grit...the op never denied it's ease of use or it's capabilities.
> 
> You should re phrase this post because these are the only answers you're going to get.
> ...


Wow I must not be able to read because I can't find anywhere in this thread where th OP states he knows all about blasting and has used it.


----------



## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

maxhrbal said:


> CAN NO ONE READ?!?!
> Op clearly knows all about blasting grit...the op never denied it's ease of use or it's capabilities.
> 
> You should re phrase this post because these are the only answers you're going to get.
> ...


The reason I posted is because the OP does not understand blasting grit. He said he doesn't want to use it because he heard it is dirty and not geared toward aquariums. The point is that TMS is almost identical to blasting grit, and he is looking at that instead because it is supposedly geared toward aquariums. We are attempting clear up confusion there, not just for the OP, but for anyone else who stumbles in on this through from a search engine.


----------



## Blackheart (Jul 5, 2011)

natemcnutty said:


> The reason I posted is because the OP does not understand blasting grit. He said he doesn't want to use it because he heard it is dirty and not geared toward aquariums. The point is that TMS is almost identical to blasting grit, and he is looking at that instead because it is supposedly geared toward aquariums. We are attempting clear up confusion there, not just for the OP, but for anyone else who stumbles in on this through from a search engine.


I know full well about it even before posting this. Regardless of what anyone says, I don't and will not be using it. But somehow this thread has turned into a discussion about all the positive things about something that I clearly stated I didn't intend to use.


----------



## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

Blackheart said:


> I know full well about it even before posting this. Regardless of what anyone says, I don't and will not be using it. But somehow this thread has turned into a discussion about all the positive things about something that I clearly stated I didn't intend to use.


Understood now that you've clarified, but to be fair to everyone, you had contradictory comments in your original post such as wanting something with the ability to retain nutrients and then talked about sand, particularly BDSD and TMS, which are inert.

If you liked Flourite, why not do Flourite Black Sand. Not a super high CEC, but maybe somewhat of a compromise of what you are looking for?


----------



## JJ09 (Sep 11, 2014)

I would suggest Safe-T-Sorb, but it's not made for aquariums... However it does have high CEC, so will hold nutrients you add.


----------



## Kubla (Jan 5, 2014)

Blackheart said:


> I've tried both Eco complete and Flourite substrates in the past with my planted tanks and even though I do like the Flourite a bit more, I'd like to try something different... Something that looks good, isn't extremely dirty and at least provides some nutrients to plants preferably. Any ideas?
> 
> So far, the substrate I have considered most recently is sand. Particularly Black Tahitian moon sand. I know that a million people are gonna suggest black diamond blasting sand, but that's not a route I'm going down. I've heard it can be horribly dirty and I'd like something that's actually geared towards aquariums.


I can't think of any substrate that provides nutrients that won't contribute some level of dirt. "Something that looks good" is completely subjective. Maybe you need to define "horribly dirty". 
Personal experience
-*Flourite*- I didn't have a big issue with dirt, just a little rinsing in the bag. Low CEC, little if any usable nutrients.
-*Flourite Sand*- was a little dustier, not much. Low CEC, little if any usable nutrients.
-*BDBS*-I guess I got a clean bag, just needed a light rinse. No CEC no nutrients
-*Saf-T-Sorb*-pretty dirty. No matter how much I rinsed the dust never seemed to quit. Stirred up dust when I moved stuff in the tank. High CEC no nutrients.
-*Fluval Stratum*-Finally trying a soil-like substrate. It's pretty dirty, lightly rinsed it continues to cloud the water when I move stuff. High CEC, nutrients.

I think the only substrate that you'll find that's actually geared towards aquariums, other than the soil type substrates, is colored gravel. Most of the others are harvested/mined/manufactured for multiple uses and are just packaged, marketed and marked up for the aquarium world.

I've always liked the look of Tahitian Moon Sand and it should be easy to plant in about the same as PFS. Of course, PFS isn't geared towards aquariums...


----------



## JJ09 (Sep 11, 2014)

Kubla said:


> -*Saf-T-Sorb*-pretty dirty. No matter how much I rinsed the dust never seemed to quit. Stirred up dust when I moved stuff in the tank. High CEC no nutrients.


You can sift out most of the fine particles and dust, _before_ doing rinses. Mine doesn't stir up unbearable mess in the tank. No nutrients, but you can 'charge' it with ferts before using in the tank. And I like how it looks. Yeah, it's some work to prepare the stuff, but it's really inexpensive so that worked for me.


----------



## Kubla (Jan 5, 2014)

JJ09 said:


> You can sift out most of the fine particles and dust, _before_ doing rinses. Mine doesn't stir up unbearable mess in the tank. No nutrients, but you can 'charge' it with ferts before using in the tank. And I like how it looks. Yeah, it's some work to prepare the stuff, but it's really inexpensive so that worked for me.


Thanks, I'll give it another shot. I've got a lot left and like the way it looks.


----------



## Blackheart (Jul 5, 2011)

Kubla said:


> I can't think of any substrate that provides nutrients that won't contribute some level of dirt. "Something that looks good" is completely subjective. Maybe you need to define "horribly dirty".
> Personal experience
> -*Flourite*- I didn't have a big issue with dirt, just a little rinsing in the bag. Low CEC, little if any usable nutrients.
> -*Flourite Sand*- was a little dustier, not much. Low CEC, little if any usable nutrients.
> ...


I've used Flourite original in the past like I said before and it was really dirty. Every time I did anything in my tank, it would kick up a huge mess of debris. The appearance of the substrate was very nice though, but was just way too dirty for my liking. And that was with washing all the substrate outside nearly all day when I purchased it.

I will more than likely either go with BTMS or PFS. Despite not having any nutrients or being geared for aquariums, I've heard so many good things about PFS and it's so cheap that I can't pass it up. I can get a 50lb bag for 12 dollars. I will add some root tabs if need be. I have seen people who don't use root tabs or fertilize their tank and use PFS and yet they have success somehow. Plus I like the look of the white sand with plants. Looks natural imo.

I tried using Fluval Stratum once years ago in a nano tank... and it was not a good experience. I don't know if it was supposed to be washed or not, but when I was done rinsing it, it just turned into huge muddy mess. Very expensive stuff too.


----------



## sistimblue (Nov 27, 2016)

Lol why doesnt everyone just let this guy waste his money on the TMS!Sounds to me like you already made up your mind. You don't want the blasting sand because "everyone is using it" sorta thing


----------



## JTDillon (Mar 11, 2017)

This thread really got me interested in this blasting grit, where do you guys buy it? any specific brands? what makes it so beneficial to use? besides the practicality of being cheap/ easy to get? like what benefits to the plants?


----------



## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

Black Diamond At Tractor Supply 20/40 grit,around eight dollars for 50 libs.
Zero benefit to plant's by itself.
Mostly used as cap over dirt in my tanks.


----------



## Kubla (Jan 5, 2014)

I just did a 20g long with BDBS. Poured it in the tank and added water. No rinse, no wash, nothing. I skimmed a small amount of floating stuff off the top of the water and I'm ready to go. I'll dispute that it's dirty. This batch certainly is not.


----------

