# Spirogyra advice?



## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

This is the only algae I've never had to deal with, so take this with a grain of salt.

I doubt the fert reduction is doing anything. Algae is better at scavenging nutrients than plants. The extremely heavy doses of Excel and H2O2 are likely doing all the work here, as well as stressing the plants; so go ahead and resume normal fertilization. I'd keep photoperiod low until you raise the fixture.

Flow is required to carry sufficient amounts of nutrients around the tank. The same goes for Excel and H2O2, they won't have full algeacidal effect in low flow areas. Locations of remaining spirogyra may correspond to such areas.

Moss can be so dense it's hard to get much flow into it. If you're referencing the post I think you are for this treatment regimen, you'll see at the end a report that Tetra Algae Control effectively kills spirogyra. Algaefix contains the same active ingredient. *I don't recommend you put this in your tank*. It can have unpredictable effects, including fish deaths. However, if the infestation is now limited enough that you can move all the remaining infested plants to a bucket, a three day dip with Algaefix at recommended concentration can work _miracles_. I've successfully removed Clado from moss this way, which as far as I know, cannot be done any other way without also killing the moss.


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## U2Kent (Jul 28, 2011)

awesome, thanks for the advice.

Should I continue overdosing Excel and dosing H2O2 while I'm dosing ferts? Is this an algae I need to continue being diligent about fighting until I see it disappear? I definitely still have a decent amount of it in the tank, it's just a lot shorter and doesn't appear to be actively growing right now. I don't want to give up prematurely and have it come back just as quick. I was hoping adding potassium and phosphorous to the dosing regimen would help the plants absorb the nutrients they need and starve the spirogyra.

unfortunately this stuff is on the driftwood as well as the plants so trying to dip it in algaefix would mean pretty much a complete rescape which is a road I'm not quite ready to go down 

really appreciate the info though.


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

10ml is a scary amount of Excel in my opinion. Since you've completed the treatment as described in that thread, I'd now drop down to a more sustainable overdose of 3x, or 5ml/day in your 17G.

Up to 3ml/G of H2O2 used daily for extended periods seems relatively safe. Dose it as spot treatments for max effect on the treated areas, with still water for a few minutes. Then, to get the best whole-tank effect from it, you need vigorous flow in the tank for 20-30 minutes, _without_ the water flowing through the filter media. If it goes through the media, a significant portion of it is consumed in reaction with the biofilter bacteria, rather than algae. You can use a powerhead. Or temporarily remove media from one or more filters to a bag/bucket with some tank water to keep them wet. It's not necessary to turn off lights as is commonly stated, it takes days for even sunlight to significantly break down H2O2.

That's the most aggressive medium-term treatment I can recommend, that I believe has a fair margin of safety. Hopefully it will be enough. This algae sounds very tenacious, and I would keep working on it until I'm sure it's gone.


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## U2Kent (Jul 28, 2011)

DarkCobra said:


> 10ml is a scary amount of Excel in my opinion. Since you've completed the treatment as described in that thread, I'd now drop down to a more sustainable overdose of 3x, or 5ml/day in your 17G.
> 
> Up to 3ml/G of H2O2 used daily for extended periods seems relatively safe. Dose it as spot treatments for max effect on the treated areas, with still water for a few minutes. Then, to get the best whole-tank effect from it, you need vigorous flow in the tank for 20-30 minutes, _without_ the water flowing through the filter media. If it goes through the media, a significant portion of it is consumed in reaction with the biofilter bacteria, rather than algae. You can use a powerhead. Or temporarily remove media from one or more filters to a bag/bucket with some tank water to keep them wet. It's not necessary to turn off lights as is commonly stated, it takes days for even sunlight to significantly break down H2O2.
> 
> That's the most aggressive medium-term treatment I can recommend, that I believe has a fair margin of safety. Hopefully it will be enough. This algae sounds very tenacious, and I would keep working on it until I'm sure it's gone.


hmmm, I don't have a powerhead unfortunately and pulling my filter media out of my canister daily would be a royal pain in the ace so would I be alright just spot treating the H2O2 and leaving it on for 10-20 minutes before turning the filter back on? what is the purpose for the agitation? you said 3ml/G of H2O2 is safe... so I could potentially be spot treating with up to 50ml of H2O2 safely???

I wasn't really spot treating the H2O2 very well before, I was more or less just adding it to the water column while the filter was running.


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

The effectiveness of an H2O2 treatment is determined by how many H2O2 molecules come in contact and react with the algae.

For spot treatments, we squirt H2O2 directly on the algae, ensuring _excellent_ initial contact. And if the water is still, the H2O2 will linger for a while in the area; providing a good continued reaction. That's why spot treatments are highly effective for knocking down algae in the treated areas.

But what about the untreated areas? Spiro could be hiding anywhere in your tank. You do not want to play "whack-a-mole" with this forever. You want this algae _extinct_, only to return if it's reintroduced from an external source. Some algae can't be made extinct, they're either too tough or present everywhere in the environment (GSA and BBA are good examples). But I believe Spiro can be totally eliminated, and that's the goal as long as your tank conditions are favorable to its regrowth.

So assuming Spiro is better at hiding than you are at finding it, you'll need also need a whole tank treatment.

A spot treatment turns into a whole tank treatment the instant you add water movement. A majority of the dosed H2O2 still remains, and is dispersed throughout your tank; each molecule reacting with the first organic thing it comes in contact with. Increased water movement increases the speed with which H2O2 molecules bump into something they can react with, otherwise they'll mostly just continue to float around in the water.

However, if we provide that water movement by running filters with the media in place, the H2O2 gets sucked in and rapidly consumed in reaction with the biofilter bacteria, which doesn't do us any good. And we do eventually have to put the filters back in normal operation, yes?

So the point of agitation is to make sure as much of the H2O2 is reacted as possible, and has done something useful, before we resume normal flow through the filter media.

I recommend removing the filter media and running the filters, because then the H2O2 has a chance to react with algae in intakes, outflows, and other plumbing; where it might be hiding and have access to sufficient light to regrow. That seems optimal to me. But if that's not practical with your setup, you can skip it.

Still, water flow for the whole-tank phase of treatment is desirable. You may not have a powerhead, but do you have a spare HOB? An aerator? Failing all of that, just give the water an occasional stir with your hand.


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## U2Kent (Jul 28, 2011)

DarkCobra said:


> 10ml is a scary amount of Excel in my opinion. Since you've completed the treatment as described in that thread, I'd now drop down to a more sustainable overdose of 3x, or 5ml/day in your 17G.
> 
> Up to 3ml/G of H2O2 used daily for extended periods seems relatively safe. Dose it as spot treatments for max effect on the treated areas, with still water for a few minutes. Then, to get the best whole-tank effect from it, you need vigorous flow in the tank for 20-30 minutes, _without_ the water flowing through the filter media. If it goes through the media, a significant portion of it is consumed in reaction with the biofilter bacteria, rather than algae. You can use a powerhead. Or temporarily remove media from one or more filters to a bag/bucket with some tank water to keep them wet. It's not necessary to turn off lights as is commonly stated, it takes days for even sunlight to significantly break down H2O2.
> 
> That's the most aggressive medium-term treatment I can recommend, that I believe has a fair margin of safety. Hopefully it will be enough. This algae sounds very tenacious, and I would keep working on it until I'm sure it's gone.


hmmm, I don't have a powerhead unfortunately and pulling my filter media out of my canister daily would be a royal pain in the ace so would I be alright just spot treating the H2O2 and leaving it on for 10-20 minutes before turning the filter back on? what is the purpose for the agitation? you said 3ml/G of H2O2 is safe... so I could potentially be spot treating with up to 50ml of H2O2 safely???

I wasn't really spot treating the H2O2 very well before, I was more or less just adding it to the water column while the filter was running.

also, what if while I'm performing a water change I put H2O2 directly on the algae that is on my driftwood, any harm in that?


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

U2Kent said:


> also, what if while I'm performing a water change I put H2O2 directly on the algae that is on my driftwood, any harm in that?


No harm in that. Works quite well.


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

I started another thread about my Staghorn algae, including some interesting results from differences in flow. It's a bit lengthy, but you might find it interesting:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/algae/153064-staghorn-rhodophytas-sp-3-a.html#post1573369


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