# Are bubble walls ok for a planted tank?



## pufferfreak (Oct 19, 2003)

I would quit the air bubbles, whatever co2 thats in the water is takening out with the bubbles and thats not good.


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## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

The bubble wall is a no no!

While it does add O2 to the water, it is also pushing CO2 from the water in the form of out gassing.

I know it looks cool, but your plants will love you if you ditch it! roud: 

Mike


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## Hypancistrus (Oct 28, 2004)

I totally disagree.




> Adequate dissolved oxygen is necessary for good water quality. Oxygen is a necessary element to all forms of life. Natural stream purification processes require adequate oxygen levels in order to provide for aerobic life forms. As dissolved oxygen levels in water drop below 5.0 mg/l, aquatic life is put under stress. The lower the concentration, the greater the stress. Oxygen levels that remain below 1-2 mg/l for a few hours can result in large fish kills.


I have found in my experience that not running an airstone will result in dissolved oxygen levels below 5 mg/l. If you don't believe me, purchase a test kit or DO meter and see for yourself.

Plants need the oxygen as much as the fish.

As long as your CO2 injected water is being returned at the top of the tank and the intake is in the opposite bottom corner, there should be no problem. I run a Deep Water DW96-2 air pump in my 42 gallon planted tank. This is probably the strongest diaphram air pump you can buy. My dissolved oxygen is 7.5 ppm, my CO2 injection is 3 bubbles per second, and my CO2 levels are about 17 ppm. My plants do great.

I highly advise against not running an airstone in any aquarium.


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## KevinC (May 24, 2004)

Hypancistrus said:


> I totally disagree.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There is more to it than the presence/absence of an airstone.

1. Fish load: If you have a reasonable stocking level, the fish will not over-consume the O2.
2. Water movement: If there is adequate movement (not necessarily turbulence), water will capture dissolved oxygen from the air at the surface, and near-saturation of dissolved O2 will be achieved as it is mixed into the tank.
3. Temperature: At higher temperatures, less O2 can dissolve. If you are running at discus-keeping temps with a high stocking level, this may be an issue. Otherwise, the saturation level is above 10ppm.
4. Salinity: Large amounts of dissolved salts in the water decreases the oxygen saturation level. If you have *very* hard water or are trying to keep a heavily stocked African cichlid planted tank, this is a concern.

And notice that the above apply to both fish-only and planted tanks. 

Kevin


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## Rolo (Dec 10, 2003)

> I have found in my experience that not running an airstone will result in dissolved oxygen levels below 5 mg/l. If you don't believe me, purchase a test kit or DO meter and see for yourself.


This should be observed WAY more practically since not EVERY aquarium is like yours. You may have lower the 5 mg/L O2 without running an airstone, but certainly others do not. Almost everyday my plants pearl and I don't use airstones. Pearling means the water has reached 100% saturation of O2. Adding an airstone in my case would do nothing but remove CO2 from the water. 

Something else to take in to consideration is biological oxygen demand (BOD). If I remember right you have goldfish in your 42 gallon...they produce a lot of waste and will increase BOD since aerobic bacteria has more to waste to process.

O2 certainly is imporant, something I believe that doesn't recieve enough attention. O2 is for everyone, but not airstones. :wink: IMO Observing the health of the aquarium and fish should ultimately determine if extra aeration is needed or not.


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## Laith (Jul 7, 2004)

I've used an airstone once about 20 years ago when I started keeping aquariums.

That lasted about a day.... hated the noise and I personally thought it looked totally out of place.

I have never had a problem with low O2 and have very rarely lost any fish except to perhaps old age. With correct CO2 (more than 20mg/l) & fert levels the plants will *saturate* the water with O2. That means that no more O2 can be absorbed by the water even if you have 10 airstones in there! roud:


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## BlueRam (Sep 21, 2004)

Morinfen: 
Bubbles are the "not in a planted tank" list along with UGF's and a bunch of stuff that a number of people use anyways. The reason I do not like bubbles is that it reminds me of a UGF system meant for filtration and current. Compared to hang-on-back or canisters the UGF really does neither. 

If you are worried about O2 levels, run the air stone on the reverse schedule as the lights. 

Another point is the use of hard scape (ie things that are not plant) as in my tank anything and everything is quickly overgrown. I know there are rocks and wood in there somewhere but good luck finding it. 

So if the fake bridge and bubble wall really complete the tank for you that go for it. Starting the thread shows that you are having other thoughts though.

Once you plug in the CO2, the plants will give you more bubbles that you could ever want.


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## Hypancistrus (Oct 28, 2004)

KevinC said:


> 1. Fish load: If you have a reasonable stocking level, the fish will not over-consume the O2.


It totally depends on the fish. A tank with a few small minnows is different than a tank with a few ancistrus.





KevinC said:


> 2. Water movement: If there is adequate movement (not necessarily turbulence), water will capture dissolved oxygen from the air at the surface, and near-saturation of dissolved O2 will be achieved as it is mixed into the tank.


In order for this to happen, the tank cannot be covered. Most people keep their tanks covered. I have found that even with an opening on the back for the HOB filter, it isn't enough in a covered tank. If the tank is not covered and there is surface turbulance, the same principles of dissolved CO2 dissipation apply as they do for airstones.





KevinC said:


> 3. Temperature: At higher temperatures, less O2 can dissolve. If you are running at discus-keeping temps with a high stocking level, this may be an issue. Otherwise, the saturation level is above 10ppm.


Wrong. It is much harder to dissolve and retain oxygen in tanks heated in the lower to mid 70's as it is in a coldwater tank with no heater and temperatures in the upper 50's / lower 60's. A covered tank heated at 72°F will _very_ likely have a DO reading below 5 mg/L if not running airstones.





Rolo said:


> This should be observed WAY more practically since not EVERY aquarium is like yours. You may have lower the 5 mg/L O2 without running an airstone, but certainly others do not.


If their tanks are covered, I'm betting they do. They can't be sure unless they measure.





Rolo said:


> Almost everyday my plants pearl and I don't use airstones. Pearling means the water has reached 100% saturation of O2. Adding an airstone in my case would do nothing but remove CO2 from the water.


O2 saturation is dependent on temperature and salinity. Just because you see some bubbles on your plant leaves does not indicate with 100% certainty that your DO is at maximum saturation. You can't be sure unless you measure using a meter or test kit. If your tank is uncovered its certainly possible.





Rolo said:


> O2 certainly is imporant, something I believe that doesn't recieve enough attention. O2 is for everyone, but not airstones.


If their tanks are covered and they have fish in them, I would say they are. Just my opinion.





Laith said:


> I have never had a problem with low O2 and have very rarely lost any fish except to perhaps old age. With correct CO2 (more than 20mg/l) & fert levels the plants will *saturate* the water with O2.


How do you know you don't have low O2 unless you measure it with a test kit or meter?





BlueRam said:


> If you are worried about O2 levels, run the air stone on the reverse schedule as the lights.


If you have low O2 levels and a covered tank, running airstones only at night isn't enough.





BlueRam said:


> The reason I do not like bubbles is that it reminds me of a UGF system meant for filtration and current.


I agree the UGF's aren't the best, but I think it's silly not to use an airstone simply because it connotes something else. 





BlueRam said:


> Once you plug in the CO2, the plants will give you more bubbles that you could ever want.


The point of airstones is not to produce bubbles, but to create surface turbulance, "turn" the water, and establish a cushion of air above the surface of a covered tank.


I must have the most controversial views in fish and plant keeping here.


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