# CmLaracy's 75P ADA



## CmLaracy

Well as many of you may know from my previous thread, I've been planning and spending for quite some time now. It originally started as a planned low tech 29 gallon AGA, and SOMEHOW manifested into a high tech ADA 75P :eek5: . The going as been slow, I know that for sure, but it all seems worth it now as everything comes en masse. This hobby never ends up being what you originally planned, and an especially shocking surprise to your wallet. :icon_roll 

Ok, so first of all I want to thank EVERYONE on the forums, as without your guidance I'd have never made it this far. Be it arguments, posts, topics, or even things just watched from the sidelines, new information was in surplus each and everyday I logged on. You guys have helped me so much, directly and indirectly, knowingly and unknowingly, and I thank you for that. Cheers to some great scapes.

Well now, let us begin...

The specs are as follows

ADA 75P - 75cmx45cmx45cm
166w of PC and T5
Filtar xP3 (pimp numba 117)
Pressurized CO2 w/ the works...
18L ASA II
3L ASA II Powder
2L PS Special S
500mL Brighty K (dosings below)
500mL Brighty Step 1
Lily Pipes
Custom built ADA style stand (pm for pricings and sizings, NJ and surrounding states only)
90cmx45cm Garden Mat
Lots of Manzanita (pm for leftovers)
35lbs Zebra stone (pm for leftovers)

Flora: Cyperus Helferi
Hemianthus Callitrichoides (lots) :icon_eek: 
Eleocharis Vivipara
Echinodorus Tenellus
Narrow Leaf Java Fern
Possibly Taiwan Moss

Fauna: 3x SAE's/ Otto's, cant decide
20+ Amano Shrimp

As for the stand, it is nearly finished, awaiting it's second, third, and fourth coats of Flat Black Paint.

Heres a shot of the tank, followed by the ADA merch





















As you may have noticed, for the hardscape I have a myriad of options. As for tonight I will only have time to show you two of the hopefuls, and until the third is finished, tell me which you prefer.


Powersand - 



















Rockscape - 










Manzanita Scape - 










Combo Scape - 










Hardscape with powder ASA-











Hardscape with HC planted-











From above-











Right side-











E. Tenellus from above-











Low Water-











Directly After Setup












One day later-










Two days later-









Edit: Dosings: 
Dosing Per Day
1mL = 1 Pump

(Maxi) 
8mL Potassium 
6mL Trace Elements

(Normi)
6mL Potassium
4mL Trace Elements

(Mini)
4mL Potassium
2mL Trace Elements

(Nano)
2mL Potassium
1mL Trace Elements

****GO TO THE LAST PAGES FOR MOST UP-TO-DATE PICTURES****


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## CmLaracy

Next is the stand, which is awaiting it's final coats of flat black, and the plants, which will arrive some time this week or early next week. I'm torn on the hardscapes...


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## moogoo

great stuff man. i personally like the rock look. if done right with the plants, it'll make the tank look even bigger than it really is! the wood is nice if you want the jungle look... but i lean toward the minimalist design approach or the experimental/scene design approach. I think the manzanita style is not as "wow". Just my thoughts. I'd go for the rocks. I'd make the whole look even more unbalanced though. Right now it just seems like you threw a bunch of rocks on either side til you ran out. Which unfortunately makes it look very planned. You want it to look natural. Rocks will stick out at different angles and be buried deep. Some will be leaning on others, etc. try to make it look like random placement. I think it would add a lot to the whole look once it's said and done because they say the hardscape is the heart of the aquascape  (actually i don't know if they say that, but i believe that)


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## CmLaracy

moogoo said:


> I'd make the whole look even more unbalanced though. Right now it just seems like you threw a bunch of rocks on either side til you ran out. Which unfortunately makes it look very planned. You want it to look natural. Rocks will stick out at different angles and be buried deep. Some will be leaning on others, etc. try to make it look like random placement. I think it would add a lot to the whole look once it's said and done because they say the hardscape is the heart of the aquascape  (actually i don't know if they say that, but i believe that)


I agree, I have t work on this a bit. I have time, so I'll get to it soon, probably tomorrow or thursday. thanks for the advice Moo!

Oh, and by the way, I'd try my best to give the Manzanita scape a clean ADA look. I'd avoid the jungle look as much as I could.


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## frozenbarb

I so the rock slope look more bright and prettier


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## CmLaracy

frozenbarb said:


> I so the rock slope look more bright and prettier


I can't really understand what you're trying to say....


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## Wookiellmonster

CmLaracy said:


> I can't really understand what you're trying to say....


Perhaps-- I so dig the rock scape, the slopes make it look bright and pretty ?? 

Anyway, I really like hardscape with the rocks too. But, I'm sure whatever you decide it will look great. Can't wait!


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## kr0nic

A mixture of both rock and wood can work VERY well with some good planning. Just look at last years Aquatic Gardeners Comps first prize.


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## CmLaracy

I think because of the plants I chose, I need to go with the manzanita or a combo of both, not just rocks. what do you guys think?


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## Momotaro

Maybe it is the angle of the photo, but the stone looks awkward. Everything is placed just so, with what looks like an almost equal distance between the stones as well. They also appear to be of similar size.

Play around with them more.....and lose one of the stones on the left hand side, too. Groups of three do work best.

Wood looks a lot better than the stone. 

Try taking the piece of wood that is off to the right that little bit, flip it over and place it near the "Y" in the piece of wood next to it so it looks like an off shoot of that branch.


Mike


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## garuf

I'd like to see a wood and rock scape, and more variation in substrate height, think, mound.


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## Gatekeeper

I concur that rocks are nice, bu your arrangement is too "placed". You could try burying them a bit more, to blend them INTO the substrate, as opposed to them "resting" on top of the substrate.

the rock scale is going to get lost with the Cyperus Helferi, Eleocharis Vivipara and Narrow Leaf Java Fern I think.

I would like to see a combo wood and stone arrangement...that could be the ticket.


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## CmLaracy

Ok, I tried the rock/manzanita combo and found it to be very difficult. Here's what I came up with, suggestions would be appreciated. Im going to go try again.











And heres the Narrow Leaf Java I was talking about


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## garuf

More wood, for certain, I really like it though, Like I say though, more wood, run it from the centre over the rocks and into the substrate like roots and then add some more ones that reach for the water surface, breaking it if possible.


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## Gatekeeper

Hmmm. Not quite sure here. i still think those rocks are going to get swallowed up by plants very quickly. I think this really depends on how much or how densely planted this is going to be.

As momtaro suggested, have you tried "combining" the pieces to simulate one piece of wood with multiple branches?


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## CmLaracy

I dont mind if only the surface of the rocks are showing through the E. Tenellus, it's a natural look. Is there anything that just stands out as a sort of "no no" or "kinda distracting". I'm going to try and put more wood in, which is proving to be quite difficult.


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## Gatekeeper

No such thing as a "no no". 

Do you like it? That is the true question here. You're the one who has to live with it... remember, you can always make some adjustments later if your not happy with the outcome.


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## garuf

True words. 
just look how many of us do rescapes


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## CmLaracy

Ok here's my final attempt for the day, criticisms are welcomed as always, I need to get it right.


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## Gatekeeper

Looks awesome. Only suggestion which I think will help you out in the long run... and this is from a maintenance perspective as well.

The wood all the way to the left, that is siumlating an exposed root, move it in a bit more, closer to the far left rock. This will help give some plantable space there as well as give you access to clean the glass without hitting any of the hardscape.

Looks great though man... Good luck with it! can't wait to see it planted!


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## garuf

Like it! I'd turn the 2 that are lying down through 90degrees though or at least one, It looks really good, will be amazing once planted up!


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## CmLaracy

Ok, here is probably what's going to be the final hardscape, shaped up and clean!


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## Gatekeeper

roud: looks good from my house.


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## pomby27

dont think theres a right or wrong, long as you personally like it :].


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## CmLaracy

Thanks gmccreedy! Are you sure it looks good, or are you saying it to be nice, lol. Okay, I just about finished putting the second coat on my stand, and the third is to be put on later tonight, and the fourth tomorrow. If everything runs swimmingly there will be water in the tank by friday night, with all the plants except for the E. Tenellus which I expect won't arrive until next week. I will go get LOTS of HC either tomorrow or friday. More opinions on the hardscape are welcome!! Thanks


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## Momotaro

Initial wood set up was best (should have tried the little piese of wood where I suggested just so everyone could have a look at what I was mentioning :icon_wink ).

I don't care for it much.

You have a big "circle" of wood in the middle. The bottom looks like a couple of crab claws coming tights at you. Also, that one stone seems flat out centered. 

I do like the continuity of the wood you have selected. All but the one piece that runs to the top left of the aquarium "match up" and make a very believeable vignette. Remove the thin bit and you completely harmonious!

Rocks look much better than the initial photo, too! Odd number always looks best, and you can see it in action right there.

I think you are almost there. Consider moving the whole hardscape over to the left a little more and work out that "circle". If it takes a few more hours/days...so be it. You have put so much time into it up to this point a little more time isn't really going to matter. It will mean the difference between the good hardscape you have now and the great one you are very close to putting together.


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## CmLaracy

thanks a bunch Momotaro! I really appreciate the constructive criticism, one set of eyes just isn't enough to properly judge a hardscape. I can't seem to understand what you mean by the "circle" though. 

The crab thing is very funny :hihi: , I'll move the sticks around a little bit to make it not so distracting.

I had an awkward feeling about the piece that ran up to the top even before you mentioned it, and I'm still trying t figure out a way to fix it. Thanks

About the circle being centered, I know what you mean :icon_redf . Also I went upstairs to try and move the whole scape to the left and it just wouldn't budge. I'd have to redo most of it to get it over a bit, and I don't know if I'd be able to get the same result.

But please, do explain further about the circle, I can't seem to see what you mean. thanks so much for the help!!


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## Momotaro

Walking away and coming back to it is a great way to be sure you are happy with what you have done!

The circle? It is right there. The branch that comes over the center rock and curves to the right (as we look at it) and the "crab claws" just grab my eye as a big "circle".

Is the thin branch part of the bigger branch?


Mike


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## CmLaracy

Ok, now that I see what you're talking about with the circle, I don't know how to fix it. Any suggestions?

And yes, the really thin part of that stick is connected to the thicker part.


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## ikuzo

can't wait to see it filled and planted.


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## CmLaracy

yeah me too, it will probably be filled tomorrow if my order from lowcaster comes. How do you like the hardscape, any critiques?


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## screename

I actually really like this scape!!! But, with plants in there, those pieces of wood at the bottom will get lost very quickly. Unless you dont plan on having any plants there but I think you do. Maybe only HC in that area would show up if even.


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## Digsy

I love the hardscape! I'm glad I joined this thread at the beginning...this tank is gonna look awesome!


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## MARIMOBALL

I think the scape could be improved. you can layer the rock one on top of the other. place two or three rocks close together not spread out. the wood that is laying flat on the soil can be adjusted to look like roots, like the one on the left. but group them together not spread out like you have them. I think you are close to making it look natural.


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## Badcopnofishtank

Your getting warmer...lol.


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## CmLaracy

Alright, a couple of tweaks and I'll really feel like I'm almost there! I'm going to re-boil the wood today when I get home, and if it goes quickly enough, I'm going to plant tonight. The stand is DONE, but I think planting tomorrow would be a better idea because I'll have more time. (no school the next day)


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## dr.tran

thats excatlly the same setup i was planing in my mind if i could ever make that much money.

if u don't mind me asking, how much was it for all the ada stuff shipped?

i wanted to see how much my walet had to bleed for one of these.


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## CmLaracy

$320 for the tank, and $200 for everything else. 

Ok, all the plants are here, and I'm making a stop up to my LPS now to pick up a load of HC. Tonight is going to be a late night, I'm planting and filling baby!! I've been waiting 2 years for this day!! Anything I should pick up while im there besides some purigen? I have an $80 credit...


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## moogoo

$320 for the tank? shipped? no way... and $200 for everything else? the lily pipes alone cost nearly $200  I guess you didn't calculate those because they were "gifts"  

from what I saw, I thought you spent at least $1K, if not more.


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## CmLaracy

well for EVERYTHING I spent about 1.4k, but the tank was 200 plus 120 for shipping. the lilypipes were a gift, and the aquasoil and ferts costed about 120 and 80 for the zebra stone. I probably spent around 600 on ADA merch. I'm at the lps now, anything I should get? this is from my iPhone btw.


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## dr.tran

LOL! iphone and ada? seems like ur rolling in it. dam dude IDK wat else for u to get. it seems good so far. 

oh man, i can't believe 120 just for shipping it. *tears* and whats a ADA merch? 

wow I am going to not eat, not use electricity, sell all MTG cards, and sell my xbox 360 and games to get that. oh well I can just take sleeping pills and see it every night. lol


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## roybot73

So...
IS IT PLANTED YET???


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## CmLaracy

DONE!! and it only took 7 hours..... pictures in a few, the water has to clear up. :icon_cool


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## windfish

YES I'm excited.


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## Gatekeeper

come on come on PICTURES PLEASE!


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## CmLaracy

Here it is, the moment we've all been waiting for...


Hardscape with powder ASA-











Hardscape with HC planted-











From above-











Right side-











E. Tenellus from above-











Low Water-











Directly After Setup












One day later, FINAL-











Powder ASA makes planting HC SOOOO much easier BTW


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## moogoo

looks awesome. can't wait for the HC to fill in!! I feel like you need something in the middle back though. seems like an empty space. also it would be really nice if you could get some moss to grow on some ends of the driftwood.

you're getting me so excited to set mine up!! i've got all my plants in my 10 gal, waiting until i can get my 30 gal set up. I'll have time to do it this week but probably not until wednesday. AH!! I've been waiting so long, it's killing me.

your tank is an inspiration though


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## CmLaracy

Yeh, about the middle back, I ran out of E. Tenellus, so when more grows I'm going to move it into that spot. Thanks

And thanks for the kind words!!


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## Digsy

Nice! I'm looking forward to watching it fill in. How long until you add shrimp?


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## CmLaracy

2 weeks to be safe

any more opinions?


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## ValorG

sexy... the pic with only the hardscape made me think of Salvador Dahli's work.


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## Gatekeeper

ValorG said:


> sexy... the pic with only the hardscape made me think of Salvador Dahli's work.


Nice catch. You can almost see the "crutches" all over.


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## Gatekeeper

CmLaracy said:


> 2 weeks to be safe
> 
> any more opinions?


wait more than that. BIG Ammonia spike coming!


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## @[email protected]

nice, hope HC works for you. i tried it once, i tried twice, now a third time and its dying. if you get yours to grow, plz post the tank specs so i get mine to live. 

i love the hardscape you made with the driftwood btw.


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## CmLaracy

gmccreedy said:


> wait more than that. BIG Ammonia spike coming!


Well, I'll be waiting for it, because my parameters are pretty good right now for an un-cycled tank. I'm not dosing any nitrogen or phosphorus btw... just potassium and trace.

pH: 6.4
NO3/Nitrate: 10.0ppm :icon_cool 
NO2/Nitrite: 0.0ppm :eek5: 
NH4-/NH3/Ammonia/Ammonium: 1.0ppm :thumbsup: 




> sexy... the pic with only the hardscape made me think of Salvador Dahli's work.


 I'm taking that as a compliment!! 



> nice, hope HC works for you. i tried it once, i tried twice, now a third time and its dying. if you get yours to grow, plz post the tank specs so i get mine to live.
> 
> i love the hardscape you made with the driftwood btw.


Thats no fun, well thanks for the compliments. My specs for the HC are 4wpg of Power fluorescent and T5, a combo of both. Pressurized CO2, and I'm only dosing Brighty K and Green Brighty Step 1. No N or P, I'll leave that to the fish.


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## dr.tran

NICE!!

Whats the light u have? Is it a custom? BTW, show a pic of the stand! I am thinking of making one or getting one custom done too.


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## moogoo

Isn't having a lot of plants in your tank supposed to eliminate the need for truly cycling? So, with all the plants, they should suck up the ammonia pretty quickly, giving bacteria plenty of help in developing while ammonia stays down down down.....


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## CmLaracy

dr.tran said:


> NICE!!
> 
> Whats the light u have? Is it a custom? BTW, show a pic of the stand! I am thinking of making one or getting one custom done too.


I actually have 2 light fixtures with 2 bulbs each, one coralife 2x65w PC, and one 2x18w T5 fixture. The stand was custom done by my cousin for free, and I am forever in debt to him. lol, I'll post a pic later



moogoo said:


> Isn't having a lot of plants in your tank supposed to eliminate the need for truly cycling? So, with all the plants, they should suck up the ammonia pretty quickly, giving bacteria plenty of help in developing while ammonia stays down down down.....


I guess so, thats pretty much what I was going for. Who thinks I need to shape up the back left corner a bit?


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## Badcopnofishtank

Very nice. Very well done. I cannot wait for it to grow in. Any plans for moss tied to parts of the driftwood? Which of the tenellus did you run out of, the narrow leaf or broad leaf?


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## MrJG

Lookin' great Chris. I know you had a blast getting everything planted yesterday! Now its time for water change fun for the next few weeks. Scape and plants are awesome. If you can you should get some fast growing plants to float in the tank for a bit to keep algae at bay until the initial cycle/ammonia burst finishes up. I really think thats the only thing that managed to get me over that post-setup nasty hair algae bloom that I started with... but you have a nice CO2 setup so it might not be as much of a worry. 
Enjoy it man, I know you've been cramming for a long time to do everything right the first time.


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## CmLaracy

Badcopnofishtank said:


> Very nice. Very well done. I cannot wait for it to grow in. Any plans for moss tied to parts of the driftwood? Which of the tenellus did you run out of, the narrow leaf or broad leaf?


I ran out of like two plants of each, no big deal, I'll wait until they grow enough for me to replant in the spots where I don't have enough. I'm thinking about getting some taiwan moss, but I kinda like the look of the bare manzanita. IDK, what do you think?



MrJG said:


> Lookin' great Chris. I know you had a blast getting everything planted yesterday! Now its time for water change fun for the next few weeks. Scape and plants are awesome. If you can you should get some fast growing plants to float in the tank for a bit to keep algae at bay until the initial cycle/ammonia burst finishes up. I really think thats the only thing that managed to get me over that post-setup nasty hair algae bloom that I started with... but you have a nice CO2 setup so it might not be as much of a worry.
> Enjoy it man, I know you've been cramming for a long time to do everything right the first time.


I sure did, all seven hours!! lol. How many water changes should I do a day, and how much water? I don't think I'm going to need any floating plants as I already have a lot of plants in the tank, and my CO2 is going at 6bps at about 40ppms, I don't have any fish to kill with the high levels. Thanks a bunch


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## MrJG

I'm sure someone thats used AS in a larger tank can chime in on that. I was going a 40-50% every other day or two for about 3 weeks in my 20G. That might have been excessive but from what I read it was the recommended thing to do.


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## CmLaracy

I haven't done anything but a 20% water change yet, I guess tomorrow I'll do a 40% water change, then re-check my water parameters. How's your tank doing lately, especially the HC?


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## dr.tran

holly crap! 2 light fixtures? Man thats gonna hurt when u have to change the bulbs. BTW, a 75p? Is that about 40 gallons?


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## CmLaracy

Yeah, I won't really mind changing them, money isn't that tight. By then I will have probably updated to the 150w ADA MH though, so I may never have to replace the bulbs. Its 41 gallons with about 6 gallons of substrate, so about 35 gallons with 166w which is.... 4.8wpg



dr.tran said:


> holly crap! 2 light fixtures? Man thats gonna hurt when u have to change the bulbs. BTW, a 75p? Is that about 40 gallons?


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## MrJG

dr.tran the two light fixtures isn't terrible on the wallet esp if you stagger the bulb changes. I have the same deal on mine except its only a 1x65. It give you some extra wattage for a boost when needed and its nice to have 2 banks that you can separate. 

C: the tank is doing ok. I actually just took some pictures for an update this evening. The HC all filled in nice and full... then I hacked it. On top of that the stargrass I had exploded into a large section of it that I ended up pulling up when I took the 'grass out. That stuff was crazy invasive. 
What I have left is recovering but I'm not devoted to getting total ground cover with it anymore. After taking out some large portions it was nice to see the dark aquasoil again in places.


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## dr.tran

well i mean its more like a hassel to change that many bulbs. lucky there are a few options on the web that makes light bulbs easier on the wallet. 

I have a 130 watts over a 29 gal. And man I love high light tanks but I guess I'm lazy when it comes to just changing the bulbs.


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## CmLaracy

How many hours a day should I have my lights running for right now during the cycling period?


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## @[email protected]

i suggest 10 or so.


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## MrJG

I'd say no more than 8 and possibly as low as 5 until everything is established.


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## CmLaracy

I'm running them at 7 right now, I'll see how that goes. The water is really nice and clear now so when the lights turn on at 2 I'll post some pictures, hopefully I can snap one of some pearling HC. The ones closest to the light yesterday were pearling already, I guess thats a good sign!


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## Jens

Looking nice! But why are you not showing pics of the whole setup including stand?


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## CmLaracy

Jens said:


> Looking nice! But why are you not showing pics of the whole setup including stand?



I'll post a pic of the entire thing in a bit :thumbsup:












Water Parameters:

Date NH4+	NO3- NO2-	pH
19-Jan	1.0ppm	10.0ppm	0.0ppm	6.2
20-Jan	1.5ppm	15.0ppm	.50ppm	6.4


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## garuf

Lovely, You need to get some fast growing stems in there though.
Not to help the scape but to soak up as much nutrients as possible to help stave of algae, they can be removed one everything is grown in and stable.


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## CmLaracy

garuf said:


> Lovely, You need to get some fast growing stems in there though.
> Not to help the scape but to soak up as much nutrients as possible to help stave of algae, they can be removed one everything is grown in and stable.


This of course would seem to be the intelligent route to take, unfortunately I lack in that department and want to try and tough it out without the stems. Good idea, but I'm way too stubborn, lol :icon_cool


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## garuf

Then get ready for the [email protected]*t storm your going to unleash on yourself. 
This is my tank when I first set it up not knowing you need stems. 
http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf0223ru7.jpg
I've still not won the algae battle that not planting heavy from the start caused.


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## CmLaracy

hmmm, you seem to have swayed my decision... I'll try keeping photoperiod really short, and if I get any hint of bad algae I'll throw some stems in there. thanks for the advice and forewarning! btw that picture nearly brought a tear to my eye, LOL


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## garuf

Haha, the tank was like 2months old when that was taken, the advice I wish I'd received was keep your photo period low, 5-7 hours MAX, keep on top of water changes and maintenance, get into good habits now, and get as many fast growing plants in there as possible, 75% of the substrate should be covered from the start as a minimum, these can be swapped out once everything is stable.
Co2 and ferts should be introduced now, stability is algaes worst nightmare. 
Oh and get your clean up crew ready, as many oto's and Amano's as you can lay your hands on.


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## CmLaracy

garuf said:


> Haha, the tank was like 2months old when that was taken, the advice I wish I'd received was keep your photo period low, 5-7 hours MAX, keep on top of water changes and maintenance, get into good habits now, and get as many fast growing plants in there as possible, 75% of the substrate should be covered from the start as a minimum, these can be swapped out once everything is stable.
> Co2 and ferts should be introduced now, stability is algaes worst nightmare.
> Oh and get your clean up crew ready, as many oto's and Amano's as you can lay your hands on.


Alrighty then, I just shortened my photoperiod to 5 hours, I've had my CO2 going at 6bps since setup, and have been consistently dosing ferts. more than 75% of the substrate is covered, about 90%. I'm going to do 20% water changes everyday, and I have $60 to spend solely on a clean-up crew. I'm so prepared for the 5h1t storm!! roud: lol


Edit: I've noticed HC growth ALREADY, I'll keep you guys posted


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## @[email protected]

i reccomend some young (emphasis on young) SAEs, and some shrimp; that'll show the algae.


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## danepatrick

i'll be honest. i haven't been on in a while and checked this thing out, but you've done a GREAT jobe with the layout my friend. i'm VERY excited to see the way it has turned out for you. i can't wait to see the tank fill in.


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## CmLaracy

danepatrick said:


> i'll be honest. i haven't been on in a while and checked this thing out, but you've done a GREAT jobe with the layout my friend. i'm VERY excited to see the way it has turned out for you. i can't wait to see the tank fill in.


omg thank you so much!!! that makes me feel so good cause now I know that I didn't waste my money and that its actually a good scape. I really appreciate the kind words, they're really helpful being that this is my first attempt and all. I'm equally as excited to see how it will look grown out, and wether or not I'll survive the war against algae. omg I can't wait, thanks a bunch


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## A Hill

The tank looks GREAT! You've got talent in this area to say the least:thumbsup: 

Very cool scape much different than that of your original plans.

Skip the SAE they aren't worth the aggravation in the long run, get some Ottos, maybe a few bushy nose plecos and of course shrimp:thumbsup: 

-Andrew


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## bsmith

Very nice tank!

Please wait a month or 2 before you put shrimp in there!!! Please please please, it took my tank 2-3 weeks for the CLOVERFIELD ammonia spike to come and this was in a tank that was running for 2 years and totally established. 

Again I will urge you to not get too anxious and get the shrimp UNTILL the spike had dissapated.

Please!!!!!!!!!!!


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## screename

^^^ I think he wants you to wait to add some shrimp lol. But, yeah I do agree with him. Its very sad to add some nice shrimp to your tank, get attached to them only to see them die.


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## CmLaracy

A Hill said:


> The tank looks GREAT! You've got talent in this area to say the least:thumbsup:
> 
> Very cool scape much different than that of your original plans.
> 
> Skip the SAE they aren't worth the aggravation in the long run, get some Ottos, maybe a few bushy nose plecos and of course shrimp:thumbsup:
> 
> -Andrew


Thanks Andrew, I appreciate the kindness!



bsmith782 said:


> Very nice tank!
> 
> Please wait a month or 2 before you put shrimp in there!!! Please please please, it took my tank 2-3 weeks for the CLOVERFIELD ammonia spike to come and this was in a tank that was running for 2 years and totally established.
> 
> Again I will urge you to not get too anxious and get the shrimp UNTILL the spike had dissapated.
> 
> Please!!!!!!!!!!!


don't worry, I'm not putting anything living in there until my Ammonia is back to below 1ppm! Thanks!



screename said:


> ^^^ I think he wants you to wait to add some shrimp lol. But, yeah I do agree with him. Its very sad to add some nice shrimp to your tank, get attached to them only to see them die.


Agreed! For the Animal's sake  and my wallet's sake :thumbsdow lol


----------



## @[email protected]

you could add shrimp and stuff if you take some biological media from another tank. just add only as much as was covered by that amount of media.


----------



## Gatekeeper

@[email protected] said:


> you could add shrimp and stuff if you take some biological media from another tank. just add only as much as was covered by that amount of media.


no no no. The ammonia spike will not be circumvented by a seeded filter. Its almost inevitable because of the nutrient levels in AS.

You don't need to dose for a while either, but this is of course debatable and i am sure i will get flamed for it.


----------



## CmLaracy

gmccreedy said:


> no no no. The ammonia spike will not be circumvented by a seeded filter. Its almost inevitable because of the nutrient levels in AS.
> 
> You don't need to dose for a while either, but this is of course debatable and i am sure i will get flamed for it.


It's irrelevant, I don't have fish or shrimp to add, or biological filtration to add. and the ammonia spike will still happen cause of the aquasoil like McCreedy said.


----------



## bsmith

bsmith782 said:


> Very nice tank!
> 
> Please wait a month or 2 before you put shrimp in there!!! Please please please, it took my tank 2-3 weeks for the CLOVERFIELD ammonia spike to come and this was in a tank that was running for 2 years and totally established.
> 
> Again I will urge you to not get too anxious and get the shrimp UNTILL the spike had dissapated.
> 
> Please!!!!!!!!!!!





@[email protected] said:


> you could add shrimp and stuff if you take some biological media from another tank. just add only as much as was covered by that amount of media.



I guess you didnt read my above post. If a whole cycled tank will not curb an ammonia spike from AS then a piece of "seeded" media deffinantly has no chance.


----------



## Jens

Just as a FYI, AS II supposedly doesn't has that much of a ammonia spike as the old original AS has.


----------



## CmLaracy

Jens said:


> Just as a FYI, AS II supposedly doesn't has that much of a ammonia spike as the old original AS has.


Yes, I thought to myself yesterday that this was well worth mentioning but unfortunately I forgot :icon_redf . thanks! :thumbsup:

PS, if you like my thread, give it a rating, cause right now I only have 2 ratings, averaging to 4 stars. Thanks!


----------



## CmLaracy

oh jeez, my nitrites are 1ppm, Nitrates at 10ppm, and MY AMMONIA IS AT 4.0ppm, IT'S HAPPENING OMG! I'm scared for my plants, lol


----------



## MrJG

Hehe no worries C. The plants will suck it up. Just keep up with those water changes... and like everyone says get a few bunches of some kind of fast growing nutrient hog like wisteria or something to float in there for a while. Trust me you will not regret it.


----------



## bsmith

Dont worry plants will do fine, as long as things dont get too crazy.

I thought that AS II ws less "dusty" then regular AS, it had less of a tendancy to cloud your water.


----------



## CmLaracy

My water is crystalline right now, so no worries in that department. My LPS is a decent drive away, so I'll only pick up some stems if I see that it's absolutely necessary. I just did a 40% water change after the lights and CO2 turned off to help aerate the tank a bit, I think I might be overdoing it on the CO2. My drop checker is yellow, almost white, and the whole tank is filled with bubbles, but my pH is like 6.0 so the plants will be ok I guess. I think I had it ging at like 8bps, around 45ppms LOL!!!!!


----------



## Overfloater

A photoperiod of 5 hours is fine until plant mass increases. I wouldn't worry about adding stems at this point unless algae starts getting out of hand. You should have little algae at all with a short photoperiod.

Stop dosing fertilizer unless you see some deficiency. (Unlikely)

Lower your CO2 to 2 BPS and adjust as necessary. 

Wait. Patience is key. 

I like to layout itself but I think the background would be better served with a few stands of bushy stem plants.


----------



## Gatekeeper

Cm,

If you need fast growers ASAP, don't go to the LFS, just shoot me a PM. I am only one town away! I could have them to you in no time. I have a bunch of rotala you can just have.

What stinks is I just chucked about garbage bag full of hygro too...lol.


----------



## tazcrash69

Yea Shame, 
i dumped a lot of fast growers myself. 

Get the fast stems in there. We've seen a great ADA start tank in the local club, and you need them in there.


----------



## khoile

I'm not sure if this been asked before, but does the lily pipe, if place so that it creates the whirlpool effect, help eliminate surface scum?


----------



## CmLaracy

khoile said:


> I'm not sure if this been asked before, but does the lily pipe, if place so that it creates the whirlpool effect, help eliminate surface scum?


Yes, it does indeed.


Ok well today was a big setback :icon_frow. I noticed that my cyperus Helferi was turning yellow. I took one out of the soil and to my surprise the roots werent properly in the soil. So.... I replanted all of my cyperus and fogged up the water real good like....:hihi: . I did 5 40% water changes and its pretty clear now. 

About the HC, the ones planted in the front under the 2x18w T5 are doing great, and the ones planted out in the middle under the 2x65w PC are slowly dieing. I'm thinking of trying again in the middle, or waiting in case it bounces back. If it doesnt work, I might get another 2x18w T5 and place the lights like this to even it all out


__________________________
2x18w T5
-----------------------------------
__________________________
2x65w PC
-----------------------------------
__________________________
2x18w T5
-----------------------------------

But this would be a last resort. the HC is not completely dead, just not flourishing like the ones under the T5. Any suggestions?

The E. Tenellus and Eleocharis Vivipara are growing great, but not so much witht the cyperus. I'm seeing some minor growth of clear brownish hair like stuff which I'm pretty sure are little bits of Diatoms. No biggy. Cheers!


----------



## George

Nice journal and 'scape.

How are you finding the CO2 mist distribution with the diffuser in the same corner as the output?

I put mine in the opposite corner, that gives better results. I can see the CO2 microbubbles throughout the water. Virtually none hit the surface. A good quantity is also hitting my substrate, so great for HC etc.

I wonder if your HC issues etc. maybe related to CO2?

Just a thought.

BTW I think your centre rock is too central. Other than that I like the hardscape composition.


----------



## roybot73

Are you using the Coralife 2x18w T5 fixture? I've got 2 over a 20L, and am hoping it'll be enough to grow a dense Hairgrass, or Lilaeopsis lawn with some Blyxa, Anubias and... I've not quite finailzed my plans :icon_conf

BTW, I don't think we ever got a shot of your cabinet stand...


----------



## CmLaracy

George said:


> Nice journal and 'scape.
> 
> How are you finding the CO2 mist distribution with the diffuser in the same corner as the output?
> 
> I put mine in the opposite corner, that gives better results. I can see the CO2 microbubbles throughout the water. Virtually none hit the surface. A good quantity is also hitting my substrate, so great for HC etc.
> 
> I wonder if your HC issues etc. maybe related to CO2?
> 
> Just a thought.
> 
> BTW I think your centre rock is too central. Other than that I like the hardscape composition.


Well, on my second try with the area of HC thats not doing so well, I might have to move my diffuser over to behind the cyperus, see if that helps. But the thing is, my drop checker on the opposite side of the tank from the diffuser is yellow! So I certainly have more the 35ppms of CO2 in the entire tank.... But the bubble actually hitting the plants is a big advantage.

Oh, and I planned ahead with that central rock, there's a decent amount of E. Tenellus surrounding it that will cover most of it, taking away from its distractingness... lol

And yeah, I'm using a coralife 2x18w T5 and a Coralife PC 2x65w. Two will work well, three would allow you to grow ANYTHING _realllyy quickly_. Drop another 30 bones for another one, you wont regret it. BTW, I can't wait to see your scape!!


----------



## Gatekeeper

I noticed you have the drop checker directly in the flow path of the lily pipe. Is it possible you are getting a false reading from it??

Perhaps if you move it to the front left it may give the solution a chance to equalize and not be in the concentrated flow path. Make sense or am I talking out of my @#$?


----------



## Momotaro

Makes sense.


----------



## garuf

From my experience Hc doesn't do very well in Aqausoil initially. I had mine melt it wasn't until about a month after setting up that It took of.


----------



## CmLaracy

gmccreedy said:


> I noticed you have the drop checker directly in the flow path of the lily pipe. Is it possible you are getting a false reading from it??
> 
> Perhaps if you move it to the front left it may give the solution a chance to equalize and not be in the concentrated flow path. Make sense or am I talking out of my @#$?


I will try that out!




garuf said:


> From my experience Hc doesn't do very well in Aqausoil initially. I had mine melt it wasn't until about a month after setting up that It took of.


Thats good news, I hope the melting stuff bounces back, the HC under the T5 is already taking off though...


----------



## garuf

Powercompacts aren't great Is there away you can get another set of t5's?


----------



## CmLaracy

Yeah, then i could run the 2 t5s and one pc, but IDK if it would be too much light. I posted how I would set it up above ^^^^

This is how I have it now, the top being the back half of the tank

---------------------------
PC 2x65
--------------------------

--------------------------
T5 2x182
--------------------------


and the HC in the front, under the T5, is doing way better...


----------



## garuf

See, from my experiance power compacts are useless unless you have really good reflectors, my hc has never done well and I think I've realised why. 
Will post a picture explaining in a minute.


----------



## @[email protected]

bizzare, pc lamps work well for me. but its possible that the fixtures come with good reflectors (they are metal not that white plastic $%!#, but i dont know how good the polish is). but yeah, t5s certainly have a higher light output.


----------



## CmLaracy

all I have to say is that today has filled me with renewed confidence in my setup. EVERYTHING GREW IN A MATTER OF HOURS. give it 3 weeks and everything is gonna look great, including a nice HC carpet. I guess the HC melt and cyperus yellowing was a little bit of first week jitters, the plants just needed to gain a hold on everything, a simple adjustment period. PEACE OUT, look for an update with tons of growth in about a week or so.


----------



## garuf

odd, apologies on not posting up my powercompact explanation, basically I think that it creates a strip of light that is extremely high and the plants in this area cannot get enough co2 or ferts and therefore suffer while the plants on the extremities don't get enough light and grow incredibly slowly.
I this this is down to their terrible light spread throughout the tank, I took pictures to explain but they never uploaded for what ever reason. 
It does seem to make sense to me, especially as my HC always seems to have dwindled.


----------



## CmLaracy

UPDATE!!



















Whirlpool



























Full









I've had to trim the Eleocharis vivipara MANY times already to keep it that low, now I'm going to let it reach the surface.

100% algae free!


----------



## moogoo

HC is looking great. Definitely turning out to be an awesome tank! I hope my HC will take off as much as yours has soon. How long has it been? I am too impatient for this waiting game. My HC has just started producing new leaves, although I see it on almost every single piece that I've planted, which is good news! 

Thumbs up on the tank. Looks great and good for you for algae free!! I hope mine stays that way too


----------



## CmLaracy

I've been doing a 75% WC everyday to keep the algae at bay, then pumping my CO2 up to make up for the loss during the WC's. algae... NO THANKS!


----------



## moogoo

Those are some big water changes. But I guess it's necessary. Are you dosing ferts to compensate for the big water changes? Just curious, are you using AHS reflectors?


----------



## MrJG

So far so good! Its lookin' nice man. 

Is the really delicate hair type plant in the middle back the vivipara?


----------



## CmLaracy

moogoo said:


> Those are some big water changes. But I guess it's necessary. Are you dosing ferts to compensate for the big water changes? Just curious, are you using AHS reflectors?


Yes they are, but the results are worth it. Small amounts of trace elements (Green Brighty Step 1) and Potassium (Brighty K)



MrJG said:


> So far so good! Its lookin' nice man.
> 
> Is the really delicate hair type plant in the middle back the vivipara?


Thanks a bunch!! Yes, thats Eleocharis vivipara all right, I love the plant, it grows so tall so quickly, and it's very beautiful. :flick:


----------



## danepatrick

wowwww.... my buddy! i'm impressed!! you're doing great! i feel so proud. not that i had anything to do with this thing, but i haaaaaave been following and giving advice since you got started with it.  again, great job!! try not to make any drastic changes in anything. i don't wanna see you fall down like i do!


----------



## CmLaracy

danepatrick said:


> wowwww.... my buddy! i'm impressed!! you're doing great! i feel so proud. not that i had anything to do with this thing, but i haaaaaave been following and giving advice since you got started with it.  again, great job!! try not to make any drastic changes in anything. i don't wanna see you fall down like i do!


Thanks a lot, you've definitely helped the scape A LOT, especially the hardscape! Thanks! :icon_lol:


----------



## garuf

Don't go and be a tool like I just have and start dropping your rocks fiddling! 
Good luck, so far so good!


----------



## @[email protected]

amazing. that tank will look great when done. no algae, wow; thats impressive.


----------



## CmLaracy

The cyperus has a lot of growing to do, like 8+ inches...


----------



## roybot73

Looks fantastic! 
Have you been doing the 75% changes since the very beginning?


----------



## CmLaracy

roybot73 said:


> Looks fantastic!
> Have you been doing the 75% changes since the very beginning?


Yes, some times 2 or 3 times a day to make the water crystalline, it is 100% why I don't have any algae, in conjunction with a 6 hours photoperiod and low dosings.


----------



## jinx©

That's filling out nicely Cm. I'm loving the scape you've settled on as well. :thumbsup:


----------



## garuf

When my water clears you may see some similarities in our scapes, not that I used yours as inspiration at all.


----------



## CmLaracy

garuf said:


> When my water clears you may see some similarities in our scapes, not that I used yours as inspiration at all.


hahaha, oh _thanks..._


----------



## CmLaracy

well my ammonia is at a solid 0ppm and I got no algae during the spike, which went up to about 5ppm. As soon as it started I did complete water changes for 3 straight days and now no signs of any ammonia coming back. My nitrites on the other hand were at about 2ppm, now down to about .5ppm. I'm almost done with the cycle. Pictures to come in a few days.


----------



## @[email protected]

which fish will you put in there? sorry if you already answered this question.


----------



## CmLaracy

Growth is great too. I'm planning on some SAE's, some Otto's, lots of Amano's, some RCS, and Harlequins.


----------



## vonzipper1152

Very nice, i really like the slope you created on the right side. i can't wait for the HC to fill in to see what it will look like on that slope. have you decied what kind of harlequins you are going to stock Black, Gold, or just normal harlequins.


----------



## CmLaracy

I was going for these 










I made a trip to my LF&PS and got 4 ottos's, 2 SAE's, 9 Amano's, and 4 Cherries. 2 days and not one death. There is no longer ANY algae in the tank, and the photoperiod is at 7hours/day. Everything is taking off, growing like crazy.  My NH4- and NH3 is at 0.0ppm and My NO2- is at .1ppm, and my NO3- is at 10ppm. Everything is doing great! I'm still doing a 20% WC once to twice a day. I was thinking about getting a school of 15-20 of the Harlequins. Cheers!


----------



## jeffboyarrdee

i really like this!


----------



## Digsy

CmLaracy said:


> I made a trip to my LF&PS and got 4 ottos's, 2 SAE's, 9 Amano's, and 4 Cherries. 2 days and not one death. There is no longer ANY algae in the tank, and the photoperiod is at 7hours/day. Everything is taking off, growing like crazy. My NH4- and NH3 is at 0.0ppm and My NO2- is at .1ppm, and my NO3- is at 10ppm. Everything is doing great! I'm still doing a 20% WC once to twice a day. I was thinking about getting a school of 15-20 of the Harlequins. Cheers!


It sounds to me as if it's time for some photo updates! 

P.S. I love the idea of the large school of harlequins. I love the way they look when there's enough open space in a setup to show them off.


----------



## CmLaracy

Digsy said:


> It sounds to me as if it's time for some photo updates!
> 
> P.S. I love the idea of the large school of harlequins. I love the way they look when there's enough open space in a setup to show them off.


Well there's a ton of growth, but I want to wait until friday to keep you guys in suspense! lol, still 110% algae free!


----------



## moogoo

**puts algae laced plant into CmLaracy's tank**


----------



## CmLaracy

moogoo said:


> **puts algae laced plant into CmLaracy's tank**


hahahaha, it wouldnt matter, my algae crew is getting antzy as they've finished off all the algae in the tank. They'd have it ate in under 5 min, lol. Now I'm overdosing a little be bit because I need some algae for the crew. If I can't get any I'm going to have to buy some algae wafers. Also, I'm not making any promises, but I think I may be upgrading to a 150w MH pendant. :thumbsup:


----------



## roybot73

I'm getting antsy waiting to see your updates!!! (and to get my tanks set up :hihi


----------



## CmLaracy

I'm giving everything a good trim this afternoon, and I'll have the pics up sometime this weekend!


----------



## dekstr

hey CmLaracy,

Catched up on your journal just now.

Do you have any full tank pictures, more specifically, pictures of the stand? 

I'm trying to build a stand ADA look-alike for my 10g. I using your rough stand pictures from pre-journal, but seems that it's wasn't the finished product. Thanks! 

Tank looks good btw.


----------



## CmLaracy

The tank came out basically identical in picture to the black ADA stands posted on the ADGShop. I'll post pictures before I leave for vacation.

Well I'm delaying the photo's of the tank as well for a week or so because I rescaped the back left corner, which I'm very satisfied to say came out 10x nicer than it was before, but it's a bit short due to trimmings. Once it's grown in, I'll post some pictures. I actually cut about 18" off of each Eleocharis Vivipara plant, nipping each bud at a time. It took no less than 4 hours.

the tank is still 100% algae free, and due to the fact that I do not yet have algae wafers, my algae clean up grew is getting quite hostile... I did maintenance on the filter as well and found all 8 micro filtration pads in it to be beyond FILTHY, they weren't even brown or dark brown, they were BLACK.

One of my cherries is extremely pregnant, swelling to what definitely looks to be extremely uncomfortable.

So you guys are just going to have to be patient and wait for an update, lol!


PS the HC is basically carpeted completely in the front, and will only need another week to fill in on the right side.


----------



## pleco4me

all this talk, but no pics to show it?:hihi:


----------



## CmLaracy

pleco4me said:


> all this talk, but no pics to show it?:hihi:


well sir I don't want numerous photo updates that don't show much change, I want a few that really show the stages that the tank goes through, something noticeable, so I'm waiting, lol :hihi: 

If you guys really want, I'll post some pics, everything grew in a fair amount except for the Eleocharis which I cut down about 12".


----------



## dekstr

pleco4me said:


> all this talk, but no pics to show it?:hihi:


Haha I never knew watching grass grow was so interesting!


----------



## roybot73

SHOW THE TANK. :angryfire :icon_evil :angryfire :icon_evil


----------



## CmLaracy

Update will come on the 15th!

Besides, its only been about 10 days since my last photo update! lol :icon_eek:


----------



## CmLaracy

Okay, this is why I've held off on my full setup shots-

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+12112&pcatid=12112

I'm ordering it tomorrow to replace my PC's and T5's (the PC is sold, and the T5 is FS at $30), and I consider it the final piece that will really complete the setup. Until I got/get it, I didnt/dont really want to show any pics of the entire setup. Once I get it, I'll post some pictures of the entire setup and and updated picture of the rapidly growing scape. Cheers!


----------



## thief

I'm new here and must say WOW!!! It isn't my favorite scaping but definetly captures my eye. I am completly new to planted aquariums and I've learn some stuff from this thread. Hope to see pics of your stand, and your HC carpet.


----------



## @[email protected]

yeah im hoping to see pics too, for the past week or so (come on, how can there not be enough growth, at three watts a gallon the stem plants are trimmed every other week in my tank; and if i remember right you have more light then that)


----------



## Gatekeeper

He is waiting for his Metal Halide fixture.


----------



## @[email protected]

i should read more, i kinda just scanned for pics. sorry.


----------



## CmLaracy

@[email protected] said:


> i should read more, i kinda just scanned for pics. sorry.


Hey it's no big deal, my 150w Metal Halide fixture came yesterday but had a defective hanging kit. the new one will be here tomorrow morning and I'll stay up late and crunch through some photos to get you guys the long awaited update tomorrow night. You guys won't be dissapointed, the tank is looking good!! IMO of course.. lol :icon_cool


----------



## CmLaracy

thief said:


> I'm new here and must say WOW!!! It isn't my favorite scaping but definetly captures my eye. I am completly new to planted aquariums and I've learn some stuff from this thread. Hope to see pics of your stand, and your HC carpet.


I hope this update will change your mind on the scape, it looks 100% nicer now that its's filling in, along with the semi-rescape. 

this is the list of stems I added to the back left corner

Rotala Colorata, Ludwiga Brevipes, a lot of Didiplis Diandra, Limnophila mini, Ludwiga Glandulosa, Pogosteman Yatabeanus, rotala indica, and some cyperus helferi.


BTW: I will make sure that the next update is EXTREMELY PICTURE INTENSIVE as to not let anyone down. There will be a lot of pictures of EVERYTHING. Expect upwards of 20photos, also expect photos from the beginning to show the progress!

Then in about two weeks I'll do the same thing to show the affects of 4wpg of Metal Halide!!!


----------



## Digsy

Still no pics? You sure know how to build suspense.


----------



## CmLaracy

Digsy said:


> Still no pics? You sure know how to build suspense.


Give me 10 minutes


----------



## @[email protected]

yay we get pics soon


----------



## CmLaracy

*At long last....*

Here ya go! My camera and photo taking abilities are both equally terrible, and don't mind my hideous wallpaper...:icon_roll also, right now I have a 13000K bulb in my Metal Halide so it doesnt look right...























































It's still got some growing in to do, and I really need someone with a nice camera to come over and take some pictures for me!


----------



## @[email protected]

the tank is absolutely gorgeous. i love it.


----------



## roybot73

It's filled in beautifully! Looks great, man!


----------



## Digsy

It looks amazing! I can't believe how much the HC carpet has filled in! How long until the shrimp go in?


----------



## deleted_user_16

You should give it to me!!!


----------



## CmLaracy

Digsy said:


> It looks amazing! I can't believe how much the HC carpet has filled in! How long until the shrimp go in?


Thanks!! the shrimp have been in for a while and are breeding (cherries). The Amanos are huge now too. I've got 2x SAE's and 4xottos



fishman9809 said:


> You should give it to me!!!


IT'S MINE!!



roybot73 said:


> It's filled in beautifully! Looks great, man!


Thanks, thats what I was going for  :thumbsup: 



@[email protected] said:


> the tank is absolutely gorgeous. i love it.


Me too  lol thanks a bunch!!


----------



## louiscoolboy

Looks great
how about the tank cabinet?
and how about some close up shot of the tank and the plant?


----------



## deleted_user_16

How long has it taken you to make such a beautiful tank?

How much has it cost you so far?


----------



## thief

Wow that is awsome. Can't wait to see what it looks like when the HC get thicker.


----------



## Gatekeeper

Looking good kid. Those stems in the back look better than when I saw them the other day. I have a totally different perspetive of it. Nice work on the fixture.


----------



## CmLaracy

fishman9809 said:


> How long has it taken you to make such a beautiful tank?
> 
> How much has it cost you so far?


Well about a year and a half, and $1500 roughly...



thief said:


> Wow that is awsome. Can't wait to see what it looks like when the HC get thicker.


Me too, I want a thick shag carpet of it.



gmccreedy said:


> Looking good kid. Those stems in the back look better than when I saw them the other day. I have a totally different perspetive of it. Nice work on the fixture.


Thanks Glenn!


----------



## deleted_user_16

Nice!!!


----------



## CmLaracy

*Some treats...*

Here's a couple of photos for you guys with a little bit of editing in iPhoto! :thumbsup: 


















































































I hope you enjoy them! :thumbsup:


----------



## CmLaracy

fishman9809 said:


> What type of fish you got in there?


SAE's and Ottos. Also some Amano Shrimp and RCS. I'm getting a school of 10-20 or so Rummy Nose Tetras


----------



## garuf

How are you finding the halide? It looks beautiful I'm truly envious!


----------



## CmLaracy

garuf said:


> How are you finding the halide? It looks beautiful I'm truly envious!


One word, "frightening"

It's so intense and powerful in comparison to the PC I had, it's remarkable. Why is it frightening? I stand there are look at the tank with it's ridiculous amount of intense light, pearling HC and such, and wonder "How the hell am I going to keep this under control for any sort of extended period of time, I'm supposed to be a newb!"

As of right now, the growth is explosive, and I'm worried that I might finally get some algae (no signs yet at all). Also, I'm going to have to trim weekly, if not more often. Every plant pearls by 3 hours in the photoperiod. Now I know why reef keepers INSIST on MH, it's that powerful. :thumbsup: :icon_cool


----------



## deleted_user_16

That's a big tank, aren't you going to put anything else in besides those fish you mentioned before? Maybe a school of Corydoras?


----------



## garuf

coydoras hc and aquasoil? can you spell disaster?

I'm still thinking 70w metal halide, I just can't bring myself to part with my cash. 
How is growth compared to PC?
I'm also thinking 3ft luminaire over my 2 tanks since neither has a suitable sized lum available yet with a few inches in the middle A 3ft luminaire will fit over it all perfectly.


----------



## CmLaracy

garuf said:


> coydoras hc and aquasoil? can you spell disaster?
> 
> I'm still thinking 70w metal halide, I just can't bring myself to part with my cash.
> How is growth compared to PC?
> I'm also thinking 3ft luminaire over my 2 tanks since neither has a suitable sized lum available yet with a few inches in the middle A 3ft luminaire will fit over it all perfectly.


It's about the same in WPG, but 3 to 4 times brighter, with growth 3 to 4 times better. It really is remarkable how much the quality of the light and reflectors matter, not just the amount of it that you have. Go with the 70w MH, 100%


----------



## CmLaracy

garuf said:


> Good call!
> Are you managing to keep up with ferts?
> Also what is the fixture and do you know if its available in the uk?


Yeah, I have been keeping up pretty well with the ferts (not so great with the Nitrates), and I don't know exactly where to find the fixture but if you look around they have it somewhere on the net. Aqua Medic Ocean Light 70W HQI roud:

How about this http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+15489&pcatid=15489


----------



## @[email protected]

well fast growth is good, the faster your plants grow the less the algae will.

lol. aquasoil is silt, any movement can lift it. HC is THE tiniest plant in the hobby with very fine, weak roots. after a single day with a school of corydoras there would be nothing but mud and floating HC. im suprised the SAE arent giveing you trouble; mine make me want to rip my hair out sometimes, they unplant something over and over so that it starts to die then, because their diet includes decaying plant matter, they eat it.


----------



## CmLaracy

@[email protected] said:


> well fast growth is good, the faster your plants grow the less the algae will.
> 
> lol. aquasoil is silt, any movement can lift it. HC is THE tiniest plant in the hobby with very fine, weak roots. after a single day with a school of corydoras there would be nothing but mud and floating HC. im suprised the SAE arent giveing you trouble; mine make me want to rip my hair out sometimes, they unplant something over and over so that it starts to die then, because their diet includes decaying plant matter, they eat it.


Well I let all the roots take hold before I introduced em and they haven't been able to rip up any of it yet. It's in there pretty good.


----------



## Badcopnofishtank

FTS needed! Excellent work. Now send me a photo for my website so I can brag about your killer scape.


----------



## deleted_user_16

oh, sorry, I didn't know ur tank had HC, I just saw it has a carpet plant


----------



## rwong2k

CmLaracy said:


> yeah I'm so excited, it's coming on tuesday and once it's up I'll post pictures of the entire setup. The growth will be a huge difference from the last update, tripled at least.


yeah i got 2 fixtures, one from coralife and one from fishneed it, (fish need it was 1/2 the price as the coralife and, just like the aquamedic one, it's prety sleek looking)

I only have the MH light on for 4 hours for the past 2 weeks and added another hour this week. there's also a 2x 14 watt t5 that's on 8 hours/day in this tank, the 10k bulb that I got is a little too 'white' for my taste, mixed with the t5 coralife buld it's a pretty nice mix


----------



## thief

Wow CmL,

That looks awsome. Welp I'm still planning all my tanks out. On my rack I'm hoping to have 8 different tanks and hopefully 7 of them will be planted. I will start a thread here once I get all what I need to know and consider all the variables. I live on a 3rd floor and I don't know if my room can take the wait.  

Anyways right now I just need to rack up as much cash as I can. Anways you have been a real help and your tank inspires my 15 year old self too. Never new us kids could create such a beautiful thing. lol


----------



## Buck

Nice lookin tank...great job roud:


----------



## CmLaracy

Well I have an update for you all, with no pictures... I did some major trimmings and currently have almost no stems left because of it, lol. The HC is continuing to do great, and I still have 0 algae. I also have a school of 21 Rummy nose yay!

ONE MAJOR PROBLEM
My Echinodorus tenellus is really becoming a huge problem. First of all, they are getting HUGE! To big for my tank. Second of all, the will absolutely not stop spreading EVERYWHERE. Also, the tips of the narrow leaf tenellus have been eaten off by my rummy's, and looks horrendous

SOLUTION (you guys will like this): I just ordered 7 pots of Utricularia graminifolia, and I'm replacing all of the E. tenellus with it. It's going to be more of an Iwagumi for sure, but I think the HC UG Stem Moss Grass combo will look sharp. If not, a total taredown with new aquasoil and hardscape will be in the making! Stay tuned!!!


----------



## Gatekeeper

21 Rummy? Hey one loss aint bad for that stock!

No tear down! No need...you'll be fine. So no stems left? What did you do, hack em?


----------



## Buck

tenellus sure can go crazy cant it ! 

Who are you kidding about the change...you are just bored and want to try a new plant ! :hihi: 

The change should look nice !


----------



## CmLaracy

Make that 22 rummy's, I didnt lose 1! 100% survival rate with the ones you got me Glenn!

I have some stems left, some real nice ones, but there more spread out, planted better, a lot shorter cause I trimmed em like crazy, and there's only 2 species instead of 6 lol. I probably threw out 30+ stems, I couldn't sleep that night...

Buck, I really do NEED this plant! lol! But yeah the ET was a lot crazier of a grower than I thought it would be. I just can't control it, theres new plants everyday!!


----------



## @[email protected]

no dont you dare take down that tank.

oh and post pics when the plants arrive please.


----------



## @[email protected]

yay, pics soon.

you can stop the spreading by building a barrier under the gravel (from acrylic) but any crack and the runners will go through.


----------



## CmLaracy

@[email protected] said:


> yay, pics soon.
> 
> you can stop the spreading by building a barrier under the gravel (from acrylic) but any crack and the runners will go through.


The runners go over the barriers I already tried... My UG got delayed sadly and I might not have it for a while, I'm angry. lol :icon_roll


----------



## garuf

Less talk, more pictures.
I think you'll find your UG arrives dead, I got some that had died in 3 days of being but in the mail.


----------



## CmLaracy

garuf said:


> Less talk, more pictures.
> I think you'll find your UG arrives dead, I got some that had died in 3 days of being but in the mail.


The pictures will come at 3, when my light turns on. :thumbsup:

And I sure hope my UG doesn't die.


----------



## garuf

Keep them fingers crossed, that's all I can say. 
What time zone are you in? It's 2:15 here.


----------



## CmLaracy

*Here's the bad...*

When I started this journal I said I'd show the good and the bad, and here's the bad... :icon_sad: For starters, I destroyed all my stems while attempting to trim them, the E. tenellus is going crazy and I need to replace it with some UG real quick, and my glassware is either grossly dirty or absent. Still no algae whatsoever, so I can't complain too much.... Here you go



















































































there ya go, I promise it will look better next update! Thats a solid promise!!! :hihi:


----------



## @[email protected]

the hc is doing great though, despite your other problems.


----------



## CmLaracy

@[email protected] said:


> the hc is doing great though, despite your other problems.


Yeah the HC is doing great, and I have a feeling the UG will do even better because it will be directly under the HQI. I really think the whole tank will come together when the tenellus is out, the UG is in, and my stems are properly cut. THATS when I'll have the next update, besides the one that will have the aftermath pictures of the ripping of the tenellus and planting of the UG lol!


----------



## garuf

I'm happy to say I'm 150% envious.


----------



## CmLaracy

garuf said:


> I'm happy to say I'm 150% envious.


HAHAHA thanks!!  :thumbsup:  :thumbsup:


----------



## CmLaracy

I think I might do this with my vivipara


----------



## deleted_user_16

nice, go for it!!!


----------



## Digsy

You definitely can't argue with the success of that HC. It's amazing! I really like the rummys too, good choice! Thanks for the update!


----------



## garuf

Wait a second, have I missed something or have you gotten rid of your lilies?


----------



## CmLaracy

garuf said:


> Wait a second, have I missed something or have you gotten rid of your lilies?


I broke my outflow lily  :hihi:, I'm buying a CalAqua Fluxus outflow sometime soon when I buy an ADA bulb.


----------



## garuf

did you know they make glass spraybars? I prefer spraybars they seem to give much much better flow distribution.


----------



## @[email protected]

i tried doing that with my vivipara but it justs grew right out of the water instead of curving a little. it might be since it was in a 10gal though, and it didnt have much room to bend.


----------



## garuf

Out of the water you say...
I'll have to get my hands on some of that for my 10!


----------



## @[email protected]

i got a very healthy bunch from aquariumplants.com
but it was TOO healthy. i gave up on removing rockwool halfway through the job.


----------



## garuf

I'm in the United Kingdom


----------



## CmLaracy

It was most likely Eleocharis Montevidensis if it grew past the surface of the water. Vivipara is not nearly stiff enough to do that.


----------



## danepatrick

as usual... beautiful. well done. man i haven't been on in forever.


----------



## moogoo

Nice work man. Looks great. Awesome rummies. How do they school for you? is there enough room in there for them to really show off some schooling or do they wander a lot? 

DId you get them online or at a LFS? I need to go looking for some nearby that don't cost an arm and a leg. otherwise I'll have to order them online, which sadly, even with overnight fedex, would be cheaper.


----------



## @[email protected]

CmLaracy said:


> It was most likely Eleocharis Montevidensis if it grew past the surface of the water. Vivipara is not nearly stiff enough to do that.


oh, it was probably that then. it snapped when i tried to bend it even a little.
dude you just know EVERYTHING!


----------



## CmLaracy

@[email protected] said:


> oh, it was probably that then. it snapped when i tried to bend it even a little.
> dude you just know EVERYTHING!


Hahahah thanks, but not quite lol :hihi: 

I've had some dilemmas confusing the two in my trimming methods, trying to replicate someone else's grass that was actually montevidensis, when mine was viv... But yeah, Eleocharis montevidensis, or "Giant Hairgrass" is really really stiff untill it reaches about 24" where it will finally start to give a little bit of bend. Eleocharis vivipara will give some bend as low as 3", and would NEVER stick out the surface, let alone _snap_. lol:hihi: 

Ok, so I ordered tons of UG from Aquaspot or Aquaworld or w/e. I'm also getting some from someone on the forums who I shall not name to protect his stash lol. And I ordered another group of vivipara from charley at lowcaster, but I'm afraid one wont be enough. Sadly he didnt have a second group. Not untill his next shipment atleast... 

Watch the S&S as I'm going to be posting some massive Echinodorus tenellus along with some real healthy stems of Ludwigas, Rotalas, and random exotics. I'm also going to be selling some Taiwan moss soon, as it's growing real fast, so look out to get your first spot in line! lol 

And on the subject of mercantilism, I have some great pre-boild manzanita up for sale, great for 20g-40g tanks, pm me if you'd like some pics. :tongue: 

One more thing, how do I get rid of snails? Clown Loaches?


----------



## ikuzo

dwarf puffer is the best but watch out if you have shrimps.


----------



## Jens

CmLaracy said:


> One more thing, how do I get rid of snails? Clown Loaches?


Feed less or/and get some kind of a snail trap(SS drain net + snail bait). Clown loaches will get BIG.


----------



## CmLaracy

Jens said:


> Feed less or/and get some kind of a snail trap(SS drain net + snail bait). Clown loaches will get BIG.


Ok thanks, in terms of a clown loach, I'd get a baby for a short period of time then return him


----------



## John7429

There's a store that'll let you return it for full credit?


----------



## CmLaracy

John7429 said:


> There's a store that'll let you return it for full credit?


Yeah we've been going there for like 8 years, once a week for my rabbit who needs his teeth cut everyday. We also need to get crickets once a week for my two Bearded Dragons I've bought from there over the years. We get special treatments and discounts cause of our frequency of visits, and our loyalty. It's a personal thing, we're friends with everyone that works there. We get some great perks! lol, 20% off EVERYTHING in the store is my favorite perk! :hihi:


----------



## John7429

WOW

Quite lucky. The LFS i go to regularly only gives 1/3 credit for fish... lol

The loaches would work really well for the snails. 

Good luck!


----------



## CmLaracy

Here is what I spent all morning tearing out of my tank... http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/s...chinodorus-tenellus-70-plants.html#post558422

And heres an embedded pic


----------



## deleted_user_16

man I wish I could have some, I don't have a paypal (I is 13 years old) and This would be perfect for my Eclipse 12 that I want to make into a South American biotope. Well, when I set it up, I will pm you for some (although you probably won't have anymore.)


----------



## CmLaracy

Jon Edward said:


> If Mom only knew what you were doing with her bakeware


hahaha she knows, at first she questioned it but then she got over it lol

This is what the tank looked like after I ripped out all the E. tenellus. And of course the Eleocharis vivipara wouldn't normally be so bent like that but I had the filter on full blast. Next time I'll remember to turn it down before the photo shoot.











This is after adding 4 pots of UG from Aquaspotworld that came nicely packed and fully alive and healthy!


----------



## John7429

VERY nice!


----------



## dekstr

Great stuff! That's a lot of plants you pulled up! The plants must be doubling in population every week!

Those rummynoses do look really pale though. You just introduced them right? They should colour really well. IMO very easy to take care of if you keep the tank clean, which you are!


----------



## CmLaracy

dekstr said:


> Great stuff! That's a lot of plants you pulled up! The plants must be doubling in population every week!
> 
> Those rummynoses do look really pale though. You just introduced them right? They should colour really well. IMO very easy to take care of if you keep the tank clean, which you are!


What can I say they get stressed when my metal halide comes on. When it's off, or they've gotten use to it after like 3 or 4 hours, they are scarlet red, and have amazing coloration. The metal halide just scares the bejesus out of them. FWIW they eat so ravenously it's scary! :icon_eek: :eek5:


----------



## AaronT

I'm interested to see how the UG does in such intense lighting. My experience has been that it actually grows better in a medium light tank. A friend of mine had one bank of bulbs burn out in a tank with a UG foreground and it took off!


----------



## JustOneMore21

CmLaracy said:


> What can I say they get stressed when my metal halide comes on. When it's off, or they've gotten use to it after like 3 or 4 hours, they are scarlet red, and have amazing coloration. The metal halide just scares the bejesus out of them. FWIW they eat so ravenously it's scary! :icon_eek: :eek5:


Your tank looks great! I just wanted to say that my experience with Rummies is the same. I don't have MH lighting, but I have 192w of CF over my 40g and my 7 Rummies hide all the time when the lights are on. I'm hoping by getting about 8 more that they get more comfortable. It makes me a little mad that I can't see them in the daylight. :icon_roll 

Also, is your MH hanging from the ceiling? I know some people have the metal poles for hanging and I was just wondering how yours is. Sorry if I missed that earlier in the journal.


----------



## territhemayor

Are you tearing down this tank?


----------



## garuf

I think he's keeping it. 
I think somewhere along the lines, tear out has been confused with tear down.


----------



## CmLaracy

JustOneMore21 said:


> Your tank looks great! I just wanted to say that my experience with Rummies is the same. I don't have MH lighting, but I have 192w of CF over my 40g and my 7 Rummies hide all the time when the lights are on. I'm hoping by getting about 8 more that they get more comfortable. It makes me a little mad that I can't see them in the daylight. :icon_roll
> 
> Also, is your MH hanging from the ceiling? I know some people have the metal poles for hanging and I was just wondering how yours is. Sorry if I missed that earlier in the journal.


Yup it's hanging from the ceiling and I love it! I just ordered the ADA bulb yesterday.


----------



## CmLaracy

I shipped out all those plants yesterday, made $70 profit, and bought myself a ADA 8000K HQI and another large shipment of UG. The UG has been planted, and the light will be here on monday. Look for a great big update around next friday-ish. Thanks! :thumbsup:


----------



## @[email protected]

wow, you made money. HOW!?!?!?!?!

i bred bettas, tried to sell plants, bred guppies, done this and that and every glance at my tanks seems to cost more and more.


----------



## @[email protected]

well i guess the store people agree with me on the fact that you have REALLY nice plants. good for you.


----------



## fishscale

Man I really want halides. They look so nice.


----------



## CmLaracy

fishscale said:


> Man I really want halides. They look so nice.


Yeah I don't think I'll every go back to anything else except for maybe a top quality hanging T5. The light they give off is just so beautiful the way it shimmers through the ripples, and it's a very small fixture so it adds very well to the minimalist design. Also, I've never experienced growth from any type of light that is on par with this halide, the light is just that intense.

Thanks Marko!


----------



## CmLaracy

fishman9809 said:


> Hijack mode on:
> 
> Hey CmLaracy, are you on springbreak yet? We in California started yesterday.
> 
> Hijack mode off:
> 
> Continuing on, I'm sorry I mislead the thread readers, I thought it said tear down, not tear out.


Its alright fishman. We had break in February, and will have our spring break in April

Just as a note for thought, try not to bring up many things not related to the tank in this thread, because I don't really want my journal filled with filler. As it is, there are a lot of comments in this journal that it would be better without. thanks


----------



## CmLaracy

Here's some shots with the brand new ADA 8000K Bulb. I turned my exposure down a bit so you could see the details of the plants.


----------



## unirdna

Don't those 8000K bulbs just beam the green?

The open space really sells this layout - makes the tank look much bigger. The slope of the substrate and HC cover create a very natural flow, as well. Nicely done! 

Got any fish in there?


----------



## CmLaracy

unirdna said:


> Don't those 8000K bulbs just beam the green?
> 
> The open space really sells this layout - makes the tank look much bigger. The slope of the substrate and HC cover create a very natural flow, as well. Nicely done!
> 
> Got any fish in there?


Yep, they've got a lot of green in em, when my door is open which is on the left side of the tank it glows green. lol This isn't even the "Green" version, just the standard NA 150w 8000K HQI.

Thanks, I think so too, really the highlight of this tank in my planning was supposed to be the HC. The back and the back left corner still have some work to be done. and of course that UG has to grow in :icon_evil 

I've got 5 ottos, 2 SAE's, and 22 Rummy Nose Tetras.


----------



## territhemayor

What is the point of going "green" with your lights? Does it emit more green light that gets reflected by the green plants and look better to your eyes?


----------



## HiPeople

beautiful tank, it truly has some amazing colors.


----------



## roybot73

I really like the way this looks with the ADA bulb! What is it with ADA that makes me want to give them _all_ of my money :hihi:?

That HC carpet is so beautifully dense... I want some!


----------



## Buck

What an awesome effect you created with the change ! The exposed stone, the sloping effect... great job ! It looks like a completely different tank with the tennellus out and I love it.

My thumb rating (out of 5 possible)... roud: roud: roud: roud:

The only reason it does not get a 5 is because this tank is not in my house ! :biggrin:


----------



## CmLaracy

territhemayor said:


> What is the point of going "green" with your lights? Does it emit more green light that gets reflected by the green plants and look better to your eyes?


Yes your thoughts exactly, the green reflects off the plants and amplifies their characteristics and make them look overall nicer! I love the affect.



HiPeople said:


> beautiful tank, it truly has some amazing colors.


Thanks!



roybot73 said:


> I really like the way this looks with the ADA bulb! What is it with ADA that makes me want to give them _all_ of my money :hihi:?
> 
> That HC carpet is so beautifully dense... I want some!


Yeah I really love the ADA bulb too, worth every penny. When the carpet starts floating up to the surface, you'll be first in line for the stuff for sale!



Buck said:


> What an awesome effect you created with the change ! The exposed stone, the sloping effect... great job ! It looks like a completely different tank with the tennellus out and I love it.
> 
> My thumb rating (out of 5 possible)... roud: roud: roud: roud:
> 
> The only reason it does not get a 5 is because this tank is not in my house ! :biggrin:


Thanks Buck! Just wait until that UG is filled in! it will be even more awesome lol :icon_wink


----------



## territhemayor

CmLaracy said:


> Yeah I really love the ADA bulb too, worth every penny. When the carpet starts floating up to the surface, you'll be first in line for the stuff for sale!


Does that actually happen? I thought Hc would be so light that it just stays down. and I'm tempted to buy one of those green bulbs too. And when I say tempted I mean that I just did 
I really love your scape, my goal is to make an HC carpet like that. How long did that take to fill in?


----------



## CmLaracy

territhemayor said:


> Does that actually happen? I thought Hc would be so light that it just stays down. and I'm tempted to buy one of those green bulbs too. And when I say tempted I mean that I just did
> I really love your scape, my goal is to make an HC carpet like that. How long did that take to fill in?


About two months to fill in. You'll like the bulb, its got a really nice color.


----------



## Gatekeeper

So what did you do with all the extra rock you had Chris?


----------



## territhemayor

Wait, with the ADA lights, aren't you getting less growth becuase more green light = less other light = less photosynthesis? Or is it just negligible?


----------



## @[email protected]

i LOVE your tank (i think i mentioned that before lol). great job dude.



territhemayor said:


> Wait, with the ADA lights, aren't you getting less growth becuase more green light = less other light = less photosynthesis? Or is it just negligible?


i think the negative interference (thats what i believe its called when 2 different wavelengths of a wave such as light or sound meet and reduce each other, i think the reduction is in the amplitude, but im not sure) would be minimal since the highlight bulb shouldnt be as powerful as the main one, plus in the small distance to the plants the waves wouldnt meet as often as they would from say, the sun to here. also he has a metal halide on that tank (4.5 watts if i remember right, im too lazy to look back), he can loose light and his plants would probably be fine. just raise the photo period (is it still on 6 hours?).
but i have never used either an MH or the green light so this is just speculation on my part.


----------



## Gatekeeper

@[email protected] said:


> i LOVE your tank (i think i mentioned that before lol). great job dude.
> 
> 
> i think the negative interference (thats what i believe its called when 2 different wavelengths of a wave such as light or sound meet and reduce each other, i think the reduction is in the amplitude, but im not sure) would be minimal since the highlight bulb shouldnt be as powerful as the main one, plus in the small distance to the plants the waves wouldnt meet as often as they would from say, the sun to here. also he has a metal halide on that tank (4.5 watts if i remember right, im too lazy to look back), he can loose light and his plants would probably be fine. just raise the photo period (is it still on 6 hours?).
> but i have never used either an MH or the green light so this is just speculation on my part.


There is only one light bulb dude.


----------



## CmLaracy

Yup, only one bulb. I have noticed better and faster growth with this new bulb over the old one that had a lot of blue in it that was meant for reef tanks. I think it's evidence of aquatic plant's inability to use blue light in photosynthesis. That old bulb was 13000K, very high in blue. 

With this setup I'm running 4.5wpg on a 7 hour photoperiod.


----------



## territhemayor

I've got another question: Are MH bulbs like standardized? I've got the SOLAR 1 from ADA and I've already got a bulb for that. But I've also got a coralife MH setup that also uses a 150W bulb. Can I use the ADA bulb in the Coralife rig? I understand lighthing and stuff but I have yet to change a bulb.


----------



## CmLaracy

Well, as of right now, the entire tank is on auto-pilot. I haven't done a thing to it for 5 days but dose and feed the fish. Right now I'm merely enjoying the fruits of my labors per-say. lol. Here's a "quicky photo update" for ya

This is more of a teaser shot than anything else... I took a hint from some of Amano's photographical styles here, though I know nothing about photography lol. Personally I like how the editing turned out... tell me what you think


----------



## @[email protected]

i like it a lot. and whatever you did with the picture it came out great. the fish all came out prettey crisp, the focus on the rocks and hc is good. the java fern looks amazing. the lighting suits it well in the photo.


----------



## phanizzle

Awesome tank and really nice picture!


----------



## ikuzo

wow get more of those rummy noses.


----------



## jinx©

Looking great Cm...looking forward to more pictures.


----------



## CmLaracy

Status is.... that everything is growing great except for the UG... It's completely dormant going on it's 3rd week, so yes, you could say it's making me crazy. The HC's getting so thick that I have a feeling that its going to be floating at the surface any day now. I have a huge amount of Rotala mac Green planted in the back now, atleast a 100+ stems. Everything is getting healthier and more plentiful, but I'm really getting bored with the scape. Between the boredom, the HC starting to float up, and the AS being unworkable (everytime I go to move something the tank turns into mud) I'm seeing a re-do in the next few months with some AS I when Jeff finally gets it in. (stuck in customs)

I've already drawn out a design that I feel is GOLDEN (a lot better than what I have now) lol and I think it's what I'm going to pursue with the re-do. I'll be recycling a lot of the plants from this tank and using them in the new one, but I'll also be getting some new ones. I'll sell off most of my HC and use the profits from that to buy the new plants and some more hardscape supplies, most likely ADA old black wood, and maybe 30lbs of Yamaya stones if Aquaforest gets them in soon.

Some of the plants I'm hoping to use that aren't already in my tank right now

-Bolbitis 
-Cryptocoryne becketti
-Some more Narrow leaf Rhizomes
-Some small anubias

things being recycled

-Rotala Mac green
-Eleocharis vivipara
-Narrow Leaf Java fern
-HC
-UG
-Cyperus Helferi
-Taiwan moss

I'll upload some pictures of my designs and inspiration for the design later if I can find my darn USB cable ghhrrr


----------



## roybot73

I've been wondering about your UG. So, no growth _at all_? That's gotta be frustrating.

Ever get your Cal pipes?


----------



## pleco4me

Update? New Scape?

ooo that rhymed a little bit :icon_mrgr


----------



## CmLaracy

pleco4me said:


> Update? New Scape?
> 
> ooo that rhymed a little bit :icon_mrgr


Well a new scape is on the horizon. It's going to be significant enough that I will be starting a V.2 thread. Watch for it in a month or so. I'll post one more, final update for this tank in a week or so. Thanks for the interest.


PS. ever think of a career in rapping? lol :thumbsup:


----------



## rountreesj

Yeah, I missed your driftwood sale... not like I actually need any more. So what price is the ADA black wood...just for knowledge sake. Don't you hate tearing down a good tank? It looks great, but rescaping/revamping is good because it allows you to grow in you skills. Can't wait to see the new scape...you got a lot of talent and --artistic...ness?


----------



## CmLaracy

rountreesj said:


> Yeah, I missed your driftwood sale... not like I actually need any more. So what price is the ADA black wood...just for knowledge sake. Don't you hate tearing down a good tank? It looks great, but rescaping/revamping is good because it allows you to grow in you skills. Can't wait to see the new scape...you got a lot of talent and --artistic...ness?


Well I don't know yet, they're going through their warehouse, opening up some new boxes and searching until they find the right pieces. VERY professional, I highly recommend AFA, the Lo brothers are great guys. I'm guessing a couple hundred dollars... :icon_redf 

Exactly. I love this set-up and want to see it grow out more, but the AS isn't allowing me too, so why not take advantage of the situation, get new materials, and advance on my skills by making an even nicer scape. Thanks!

In terms of the stone, I'm not mentioning the type but I'm getting around 30lbs. The set-up will HOPEFULLY be a real gem if I do it right. :thumbsup: The pressure sure is on.

The new AS 1 and PS S will be here on friday. 2x9l AS 1, 1x3l AS1 Powder, 1x2l Powersand Special S. 

BTW, I'm going to be having a large Taiwan Moss and HC sale soon, pm to line up! Driftwood and rocks in the tank have already been sold! lol :eek5:


----------



## rountreesj

$200!!:eek5: ...I can make you some "black wood" for that much, just give me a chain saw and some spray paint!


----------



## SeaSerpant

Looks very nice. seems like you have a few rummy nose tetras lol.


----------



## CmLaracy

rountreesj said:


> $200!!:eek5: ...I can make you some "black wood" for that much, just give me a chain saw and some spray paint!


that's with the 30lbs of stone too! But I know, it's a ridiculous amount to pay, but the hardscape is really the heart of the scape, and I have to get it as perfect as I can.

Oh and I made a bit more than half that selling my current hardscape materials, and I expect to make the rest off plant sales. :thumbsup: 



SeaSerpant said:


> Looks very nice. seems like you have a few rummy nose tetras lol.


Thanks! I love them Rummy's! :thumbsup:


----------



## @[email protected]

why on earth would you pay $200 for wood? even if it was carved by michelangelo, babtized by the pope, and knighted by the queen of britain; i still wouldnt pay that much


----------



## CmLaracy

@[email protected] said:


> why on earth would you pay $200 for wood? even if it was carved by michelangelo, babtized by the pope, and knighted by the queen of britain; i still wouldnt pay that much


None of it's coming out of my pocket like I said, the plants are paying for it. And the Manzanita disappointed me a little and I want it done right this time around. I'm going to be making a new thread for the re-do, expect it in about 2-3 weeks. :thumbsup:


----------



## SeaSerpant

@[email protected] said:


> why on earth would you pay $200 for wood? even if it was carved by michelangelo, babtized by the pope, and knighted by the queen of britain; i still wouldnt pay that much


Lol. thats funny:thumbsup:


----------



## @[email protected]

eh, its better then, but still; id rather just buy nice wood (like $30 a peice nice, not $200) and take the extra and put it IN my pocket for later use (in my case that would probably be on random sh!t that i would just lose later, but you could probably find a better use)

im definately looking forward to the new thread, but i still like this tank; i guess i should be quiet now since it is your tank, not mine.


----------



## CmLaracy

@[email protected] said:


> eh, its better then, but still; id rather just buy nice wood (like $30 a peice nice, not $200) and take the extra and put it IN my pocket for later use (in my case that would probably be on random sh!t that i would just lose later, but you could probably find a better use)
> 
> im definately looking forward to the new thread, but i still like this tank; i guess i should be quiet now since it is your tank, not mine.


Well its going to be $200 for A LOT of wood, and A LOT of rocks, its not that bad. Well I'll certainly give you another update on this tank before it gets torn down


----------



## rountreesj

Sorry dude, didn't mean to stir up so much crap on your thread...just trying to be funny...Guys the ADA stuff is probably worth close to that, although I kinda like the branchy/twiggy wood myself.


----------



## @[email protected]

i just saw the thing under your name, very apropriate (especially with this tank). except maybe flamberge instead fo rapier


----------



## CmLaracy

rountreesj said:


> Sorry dude, didn't mean to stir up so much crap on your thread...just trying to be funny...Guys the ADA stuff is probably worth close to that, although I kinda like the branchy/twiggy wood myself.


It's ok, I'll ask one of the mods to clean it up a bit later, they're very helpful like that! Great guys! The stuff is indeed worth it, top notch quality, handpicked for my designs



@[email protected] said:


> i just saw the thing under your name, very apropriate (especially with this tank). except maybe flamberge instead fo rapier


Well I did get a little BGA from sunlight, and right now I'm fighting a little bit of BBA (very successfully with Excel) that I got when I didn't realize my CO2 diffusor was barely working. Now 90% algae free, on it's way to being 98% lol. The HC is about 3 inches thing, and the taiwan moss probably makes up a basketball sized portion. The UG is all gone, I couldn't get it to grow, it simply withered away... I've also been doing a lot of dry dosing merely on guesstimates, risky! But it has been working. I put what I think I should be dosing into a 20fl oz bottle, fill it with water, mix it up and then pour like 3/4 of it into the tank, just incase I'm adding too much. :thumbsup: So far it works like a charm!

Thanks again for the ferts Glenn!! :icon_smil :icon_smil :red_mouth :red_mouth


----------



## rountreesj

You see though... you can dose like that, if some of the less experienced guys caught wind of your tactics, they would be dumping a few liters in here and there.


----------



## CmLaracy

rountreesj said:


> You see though... you can dose like that, if some of the less experienced guys caught wind of your tactics, they would be dumping a few liters in here and there.


very interesting point. To add, I just took an empty ADA fert bottle and filled it with kinda not random amounts of dry ferts. 10x 1/8 teaspoon of KNO₃, 5x 1/8 teaspoon of KH₂PO₄ and 2x1/4 teaspoon of K₂SO₄. Filled with water, shook until clear, and now I will experiment. I'm going to start off with 1x1ml pump per day, and see how the plants react. Then I'll move it up a bit, see if I can find a way of dosing macro's even easier. :thumbsup: 

Anyone who knows more about ferts than I do (most people) please tell me if what I'm doing is bad or good or w/e. Keep in mind I still want a very lean water column. Thanks!


----------



## rountreesj

I thought about doing that with the ferts, so let me know how it works...


----------



## styxx

I'm looking forward to see where this goes...


----------



## rountreesj

I think everyone is looking forward to the new scape...Shoot I've been daydreaming all day about the possiblilities


----------



## CmLaracy

styxx said:


> I'm looking forward to see where this goes...





rountreesj said:


> I think everyone is looking forward to the new scape...Shoot I've been daydreaming all day about the possiblilities


Hahaha thanks guys! I certainly have it all planned out and it looks awesome. In total for the wood and stone it costed me $230, which I was not pleased about, but it's EXACTLY what I wanted. The guys at AFA really did a great job in picking out the pieces I wanted, and I'm happy to say that I'm very satisfied. Look for the thread to pop up in this area of the forums around the weekend of the 17th. :thumbsup:


----------



## @[email protected]

cant wait


----------



## CmLaracy

Just ordered the Stones and Wood, I'm very excited


----------



## ikuzo

let see the photos.. $230 is a lot.


----------



## CmLaracy

ikuzo said:


> let see the photos.. $230 is a lot.


Its not going to be here for a little bit, but when it does get here I'll post a ton of photos.


----------



## John7429

We'll be expecting them!


----------



## styxx

Awesome! I can't wait!


----------



## Jonnywhoop!

very nice tank. it gives me a lot of ideas to use on my tank. thanks


----------



## CmLaracy

Jonnywhoop! said:


> very nice tank. it gives me a lot of ideas to use on my tank. thanks


Thanks! I'm pretty proud that your first post was a compliment to my journal! Thanks! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


----------



## @[email protected]

in my opinion you have too many things to be proud of.

jk, but not really


----------



## CmLaracy

@[email protected] said:


> in my opinion you have too many things to be proud of.
> 
> jk, but not really


What do you mean bro? :icon_redf


----------



## @[email protected]

great scaping ability, high quality wood, amazing light, healthy plants, etc.

the "too" was the joke, but the rest was all very true.
and dont worry im not jealous if thats what your worried about.


----------



## CmLaracy

@[email protected] said:


> great scaping ability, high quality wood, amazing light, healthy plants, etc.
> 
> the "too" was the joke, but the rest was all very true.
> and dont worry im not jealous if thats what your worried about.


hahaha oh thanks! I thought it was a negative comment for some reason :icon_roll


----------



## CmLaracy

@[email protected] said:


> great scaping ability, high quality wood, amazing light, healthy plants, etc.
> 
> the "too" was the joke, but the rest was all very true.
> and dont worry im not jealous if thats what your worried about.


hahaha oh thanks! I thought it was a negative comment for some reason :icon_roll


----------



## CmLaracy

bought one of these this morning with the left over plant sale funds. BTW, I paid for the wood and stones solely on HC and taiwan moss sales, along with this diffusor. So none of it came out of my pocket, AT ALL. I'm loving this hobby more and more everyday!!


----------



## deleted_user_16

nice!!!!


----------



## @[email protected]

a hundred dollars for that little peice of glass?
amano is a theif, and you are unbelievably. you have a nice tank AND its self-funding, HOW!?!?!?


----------



## CmLaracy

@[email protected] said:


> a hundred dollars for that little peice of glass?
> amano is a theif, and you are unbelievably. you have a nice tank AND its self-funding, HOW!?!?!?


Oh believe me I would never in my right mind take money out of my pocket, or bank account for that matter, and buy a $100 diffusor. NO WAY :icon_eek: I had some extra money left over from the Hc sale and said to myslef, "It's essentially free, just a little bit of work shipping everything out... why don't you use that extra money left over from the sale to buy a little overpriced trinket you've had your eyes on for a long time now" LOL :icon_roll 

But see, I guess it's all in the plants, because I essentailly have now purchased everything required for the re-do, and haven't spent a dime in theory. The HC sold so well I was able to re-do the entire thing for free. I'm extremely happy about this to say the least; it's a free shot at another design! This is going to be fun. :thumbsup:


----------



## @[email protected]

im already wondering what you are going to do with (the new desing).


----------



## CmLaracy

@[email protected] said:


> im already wondering what you are going to do with (the new desing).


yes, I'm very excited for the new layout. I've had a design for about 2 or 3 months that I've slowly been tweaking to as close as I can get it to perfection. I think it's really going to turn out great! :thumbsup:


----------



## wyeto

What kind of rocks did you use in the tank I really like them


----------



## rountreesj

You do realize that my evil plan is to take your new Idea and make it even better...right!!!???


----------



## ColeMan

Hey - quick question - 

How long did it take for AFA to get your driftwood package together? I e-mailed George last week with my specs and what I was looking for and haven't heard back...

I wanna see the new layout...when do you think you'll have the hardscape up?


----------



## CmLaracy

rountreesj said:


> You do realize that my evil plan is to take your new Idea and make it even better...right!!!???


Don't make me have to kill you... :icon_twis :icon_twis :icon_twis :icon_twis 



ColeMan said:


> Hey - quick question -
> 
> How long did it take for AFA to get your driftwood package together? I e-mailed George last week with my specs and what I was looking for and haven't heard back...
> 
> I wanna see the new layout...when do you think you'll have the hardscape up?


It took a little bit, as they have to go through their warehouse and boxes to find the pieces you want. It shipped out this morning, and will be here on tuesday, the 13th, and depending on when I get some my 'plants' (not telling) the rescape should begin on Saturday the 17th, and end the 18th. :eek5: :icon_roll


----------



## roybot73

You know I'll be watching for it! 

You're more about the build up than _I_ am!!!:hihi:


----------



## CmLaracy

roybot73 said:


> You know I'll be watching for it!
> 
> You're more about the build up than _I_ am!!!:hihi:


Hey if I had the materials I'd be setting it up right now, but why not build up some hype while I wait for everything to arrive? eh?


----------



## rountreesj

Why didn't I build up hype with mine?...oh yeah!...cause I bought the tank at Wal-mart one day and about a gazillion fish to go in it and some nice plastic plants and white gravel...I was Hyped...I'm sure you're hype is WAY MORE well deserved!


----------



## styxx

lol...so Chris whats the status on this tank, now that we've bought all of your HC!?


----------



## CmLaracy

styxx said:


> lol...so Chris whats the status on this tank, now that we've bought all of your HC!?


I still have a decent amount that I'm going to be keeping for myself! lol :icon_evil 

The diffusor came today, I'll post pics in a bit. It is well worth every penny, and a piece of top quality craftsmanship! :thumbsup:


----------



## @[email protected]

CmLaracy said:


> a piece of top quality craftsmanship! :thumbsup:


thats the only reason anyone pays such an insane amount for ADA products that are actually simple and can be replicated. that though you can replicate them, you cant make them such good quality.


----------



## Guest

Question - how/where did you hang your light?

I'm getting a 90p - do you think I could use the same light you used?

Also what is some good rock to use? Is lime stone a good choice?


----------



## CmLaracy

rick4him said:


> Question - how/where did you hang your light?
> 
> I'm getting a 90p - do you think I could use the same light you used?
> 
> Also what is some good rock to use? Is lime stone a good choice?


Yeah, I'm using the light I recommended you in the thread you started. 

Limestone will dissolve and raise your hardness, worst rock possible to use in a planted tank.


----------



## A Hill

Chris, 

You're crazy!

The very best in this hobby tend to be "crazy" so yeah its nothing out of the norm. Isn't it nice when the hobby is self funding:thumbsup: 

I want your tank itself though. Maybe next year I'll buy a mid sized ADA tank for meself... maybe (which means probly not when the parents see the pricetag:icon_roll then again it could be hidden:smile: )

Your rescape will be better than your last scape I'm willing to bet!

-Andrew


----------



## Guest

ahh - cool - I tried to order it and they said they don't sell it anymore.

So I called them and they said I must have used an old link because that product doesn't come up on their website if you search for it...

Any other ideas???

What about the aqualight pro 24 inch?


----------



## CmLaracy

A Hill said:


> Chris,
> 
> You're crazy!
> 
> The very best in this hobby tend to be "crazy" so yeah its nothing out of the norm. Isn't it nice when the hobby is self funding:thumbsup:
> 
> I want your tank itself though. Maybe next year I'll buy a mid sized ADA tank for meself... maybe (which means probly not when the parents see the pricetag:icon_roll then again it could be hidden:smile: )
> 
> Your rescape will be better than your last scape I'm willing to bet!
> 
> -Andrew


Hahaha thanks, I'll take that as a compliment! :icon_wink Yeah I had to do a lot of compromising with my parents to let me buy this rig! Patience is a big part of dealing with parents.  

Yes, I feel as though this scape will be many times better, as I have learned so much since the original set-up.



rick4him said:


> ahh - cool - I tried to order it and they said they don't sell it anymore.
> 
> So I called them and they said I must have used an old link because that product doesn't come up on their website if you search for it...
> 
> Any other ideas???
> 
> What about the aqualight pro 24 inch?


You can find it at many other places, it's still very commonly sold. The Aqualight is a great fixture, especially for your needs. If you don't mind the price tag I'd say go for it 100%. You can make a bar to hang it from, or hang it from your ceiling. :thumbsup: If you have any more questions just pm me!


----------



## nate_mcnasty

when do we get to see your diffuser


----------



## A Hill

CmLaracy said:


> Hahaha thanks, I'll take that as a compliment! :icon_wink Yeah I had to do a lot of compromising with my parents to let me buy this rig! Patience is a big part of dealing with parents.
> 
> Yes, I feel as though this scape will be many times better, as I have learned so much since the original set-up.


It was meant as a compliment. :thumbsup: The problem is I've compromised a bit already and am slowly trying to get a rack compromise... :icon_roll .lol. But yeah a small cube in the dinning room, or my room can't hurt right?

After a while something just seems to click, sometimes it takes a hefty amount of cash to get what you want, but when you have it it works. I feel you've got it clicked.

But $100 on a diffuser? I think you need some talking to, you should have bought the forceps. MUCH better an investment.

-Andrew


----------



## CmLaracy

*Preview*

Here's a massive update/preview for all you picture hungry PT lovers... Enjoy the show




























A good $500 worth of plants








CLEAN TANK!


















Powersand Special S



















AS I, Notice any particular slope affect?









Preliminary rock scape, 20LBS of Yamaya


















Add some Old Black Wood

















































Planting will be done today and tomorrow! :thumbsup: :icon_cool


----------



## nate_mcnasty

oh my god i love it i can only imagine what the plants are going to look like


----------



## roybot73

_ssssswwwweeeeettttttt_.......


----------



## ikuzo

nice woods. the rock is a bit too heavy at the front though. well, it's probably just me.


----------



## roybot73

Are you going to fill in around the rocks with Amazonia Powder?


----------



## @[email protected]

looks good. a lot of people have been doing island-style lately. 

$500!? guess my mom is right, money doesnt grow on trees, it grows underwater in ADA tanks.


----------



## CmLaracy

roybot73 said:


> Are you going to fill in around the rocks with Amazonia Powder?


Yeah I am :thumbsup:

Haha yes Marko, it does. I probably only spent about $80 total on all those plants less than a half a year ago! :eek5:


----------



## unirdna

Love it!


----------



## eyebeatbadgers

Very nice!!!


----------



## rountreesj

Looks fantastic!!!! I am going to humor myself and tell everyone you got that Idea from me! 

He got the idea from me guys!

No but really, it is a very strong backbone...err..hard-scape...

Have you gotten your narrow leaf yet...?


----------



## Buck

Love the stone work ! Its gonna be a beauty... roud:


----------



## CmLaracy

Thanks for the compliments everybody! Planting is in process right now and I'm taking a short break as it's exhausting, going on 5 hours, and only half way in...


----------



## @[email protected]

hope it turns out good. i sympathise with the process since my tank is easier to plant but with 2 SAE i have to plant everything 5+ times until it takes hold.


----------



## CobraGuppy

Can't wait!

I have to show my dad the 500 dollars worth of plants, he thinks that the plant i have bought now are costly enough.

5 Hours is a long time! I would have fallen dead by then since the longest i ever worked on a tank was 2 hours and then i took a nap


----------



## macclellan

That wood is quite nice. The rocks are okay, but don't look all that different from limestone (which is sold cheap by the ton) or other common grey rocks.

Are you starting with fresh aquasoil too?



CmLaracy said:


> A good $500 worth of plants


What are the plants you have? I'm having trouble seeing $500 there. 
We get it though - expensive tank, expensive sand, expensive dirt, expensive rocks, expensive wood, expensive plants - expensive. Puts all the more pressure for you to deliver a banging scape. I have no doubt you'll deliver. :thumbsup:


----------



## CmLaracy

macclellan said:


> That wood is quite nice. The rocks are okay, but don't look all that different from limestone (which is sold cheap by the ton) or other common grey rocks.
> 
> Are you starting with fresh aquasoil too?
> 
> 
> 
> What are the plants you have? I'm having trouble seeing $500 there.
> We get it though - expensive tank, expensive sand, expensive dirt, expensive rocks, expensive wood, expensive plants - expensive. Puts all the more pressure for you to deliver a banging scape. I have no doubt you'll deliver. :thumbsup:


Yeah started with fresh aquasoil. It's the plants that are there that make up the cost. I hardly spent anything on em, got em all real small. There's about a foot and a half of taiwan moss, a half a square foot of HC, 8 large Vivipara plantlets, 1 stems of marcranda green and sp green, 5 huge rhizomes of Anubias nana petite, one large cyperus helferi plant, HUGE head of needle leaf java, some rhizomes of narrow leaf java, and some large bolbitis. Maybe $300...  I've been known to exaggerate! lol

Oh and I basically finished the planting, with a few disasters along the way which I'll get into in the new thread arriving in a few weeks, but all in and it took 12 and a half hours, NO exaggerations. It was sooo hard :icon_cry: 
lol


----------



## tcy81

looking forward to more updates.


----------



## Green Leaf Aquariums

Man! I cant wait. I know its going to look good..As always


----------



## CmLaracy

Orlando said:


> Man! I cant wait. I know its going to look good..As always


It may end up looking real nice, but I've still got a lot of work to do, and it's still got a lot of growing in to do. I'm really going to have to clean and shape everything up A LOT.:icon_neut


----------



## roybot73

Ahhh...

Don't you just love that new Aquasoil smell??
Can't wait to see it, dude!


----------



## CmLaracy

roybot73 said:


> Ahhh...
> 
> Don't you just love that new Aqausoil smell??
> Can't wait to see it, dude!


I'm liking the way it looks the more the water clears up, and I still have some planting to do. I just didn't have time to do the taiwan moss as I was up until 630 this morning. And in filling process, some of the large wood that was being held up by aquasoil and rocks fell when the aquasoil was wet, but the top halves of the wood weren't submerged... It threw up some HC, which I'm going to have to replant. Once I filled the tank up more than half way the wood was able to stand on it's own via buoyancy. So I've got some more HC planting to do, which took like 3 hours, some Taiwan moss tieing, and some crypt planting (haven't arrived yet). I ordered one crypt Becketti Petchii, and one Wendtii "tropica" from aquaspot world and I'm patiently waiting for they're arrival. I have spots picked out for them, and with the planting of those, the HC, and Taiwan I think the tank will be looking many times nicer than the previous scape, even before any grow out. roud: 

The REAL thread will be up two weeks from now. Put it on your calender


----------



## @[email protected]

wow, i cant wait to see exactly how you use those plants. im sure they will fill in really fast (with all that light you have over them and the worlds most expensive dirt in the tank), so do REALLY have to wait 2 weeks to see it?


----------



## rountreesj

Hmmm...I don't know if i can wait two weeks...I might have to drive up there and see it in person...then steal it...Mmmwwuuahahaha! JK! But really I'm gonna mark the date, and if we don't see updates in exactly 336 hours!!!!!! In the words of Ach(phlem)med..."!!!!!I Kill You!!!!!"


----------



## @[email protected]

phlem takes the place of the H in his name. sheesh, some people are just to inconsiderate to other cultures to get the names right, lol. i love jeff dunhams shows, jingle bombs was probably the funniest thing i ever saw (well, except a cat squeeze itself into a bottle but thats a rare sight).


----------



## crabcake

that looks great. i am suprised to see this re-do--i haven't reviewed the recent pages of entries--it seemed as though you only recently finished your last one, which also started out very nice. this one is looking good!


----------



## Badcopnofishtank

I like the new look. Out of curiosity how much did the wood set you back?


----------



## CmLaracy

Badcopnofishtank said:


> I like the new look. Out of curiosity how much did the wood set you back?


for the wood and the stones $230 + shipping. The Rocks were $60. So umm $170... wayyy too much, would have never spent that much if I hadn't made so much on that HC sale! :red_mouth


----------



## roybot73

Ummmm....

Anything?


----------



## CmLaracy

roybot73 said:


> Ummmm....
> 
> Anything?


Yeah, lots. I've been very busy with the tank. It grew UNBELIEVABLY for the first 12 days, with my stems (Rotala mac. 'Green' & sp. 'Green') growing over 20" per stem! Everything was doing great until... dun dun da!!!
DIATOMS *ominous voice*

The NH4 spikes absolutely killed me, no matter what I did. 3, 40% WC's daily, and still, the Diatoms persist. Even now, they are most likely growing and enjoying themselves while all my plants die! The Bolbitis, dead. Cyperus, dying. Anubias nana 'petite', doing OK at best. HC, forget it, covered and devoured a while ago. Nothing is doing well, except the fast growing stems of course.

Lesson to be learned here? When using Aquasoil Amazonia I, *wait for the N-Cycle TO FINISH BEFORE ADDING SLOW GROWING PLANTS.*

I'll take some pics, and post them in the "real" thread when the tank is actually displayable. I may need to order whole new shipments of plants. This N-Cycle is a killer...

I managed to get my NH4 down to less than .1ppm today so I threw in 4 ottos and 4 Amano's, hardly enough for what I need. But basically I just have to wait for them rot away... then replants new versions of whatever completely died, and just sit back and relax, because I'm sure once this tank is settled, everything will grow swimmingly, the equipment is more than any plant could ask for.

Wish me the best of luck please people!! This is the only time I've ever faced algae that I haven't been able to eradicate in under 2 days! I'm getting a little worried. I think the most important thing is that I just wait for the diatoms to die, then start making progress from there on out. Peace everyone!


----------



## roybot73

Wow. What a bummer dude -- sorry to hear about all of this! I was hoping to see some magnificent pics and tales of glory 

How long is your photoperiod? Any ferts?


----------



## CmLaracy

roybot73 said:


> Wow. What a bummer dude -- sorry to hear about all of this! I was hoping to see some magnificent pics and tales of glory
> 
> How long is your photoperiod? Any ferts?


Oh don't you worry, GLORY WILL HAVE IT'S DAY!! ha-HA :icon_lol: 
But you know, us ADA guys are human too, and I'm not afraid to share with everyone, especially if it provides a learning experience for anyone else.

My biggest mistake I think was my overconfidence. Using AS II made me think that starting a tank was easy as cake. Not so with AS I. I was running a 10 hour photoperiod, dosing to maintain 2.0ppm PO4, 20ppm NO3, and TONS of micros to raise my 0.0 GH. I was a fool indeed... Now it's down to 7 hours, and much lower ferts. CO2 has been at 160ppms since the start, I know, I'm a nut! Combined with an ADA diffuser, 6bbs+, strong current, and almost non-existent KH, it was pretty easy to actually get my ppms of CO2 past 200 at one point. With an pH in the 4's... Good times... :icon_lol: 
Then the diatoms came and ruined all my fun! :angryfire :angryfire :angryfire 

I may be switching out the HC for some Glosso. I think it will fit the look better.


----------



## MedRed

do you plan on adding Ottos at some point? you may want to just plop a bunch of those buggers in now to take care of the diatoms. I had a massive outbreak of diatoms (silica sand + nutrients = diatom heaven) in my tanganyikan tank. I actually acclimated otos to the tank and ran with it. They cleaned up all of the diatoms in a week. You will need a lot for a tank that size though.


----------



## CmLaracy

MedRed said:


> do you plan on adding Ottos at some point? you may want to just plop a bunch of those buggers in now to take care of the diatoms. I had a massive outbreak of diatoms (silica sand + nutrients = diatom heaven) in my tanganyikan tank. I actually acclimated otos to the tank and ran with it. They cleaned up all of the diatoms in a week. You will need a lot for a tank that size though.


Yeah, I've got 4 in there, an I'm gonna need a lot more than that. If all goes according to plan, the diatoms should die within the next 7 days or so. I really hope so....


----------



## Gatekeeper

You were dosing this early Chris? Some don't dose for 2 months...

I see your adding critters already, you sure that ammonia spike is on the downswing??


----------



## CmLaracy

gmccreedy said:


> You were dosing this early Chris? Some don't dose for 2 months...
> 
> I see your adding critters already, you sure that ammonia spike is on the downswing??


Yeah I was cause I saw the plants soaking it up real fast, so I kept supplying it. I was working... UNTIL THE DIATOMS!

The Ammonia is most likely on the downswing, and I didn't add many critters just incase. Even if it's not, I'll be keeping it at 0 with a rediculous amount of WC's. lol


----------



## Guest

Hey man sorry to hear about it - It will clean up soon.

Are you dosing ADA ferts? I just started and I can tell a BIG difference. 

By the way I'm about to set up a 90p...with the Grand Solar One light!


----------



## MedRed

BTW... your tank looks amazing.


----------



## monkeyruler90

where are the pics?


----------



## eyebeatbadgers

rick4him said:


> Hey man sorry to hear about it - It will clean up soon.
> 
> Are you dosing ADA ferts? I just started and I can tell a BIG difference.


Must be the ADA Magic Juice they put in there!!

Good luck on the new setup. Patience pays off in the long run, every time roud:


----------



## TheCryptKeeper

first off.. sorry man.. that sucks.. but I know you will get it beautiful soon enough! the rockscape looks great too btw!


keep me in mind if you get rid of the HC.. I could use some after my own little disaster!


----------



## @[email protected]

oh, dude im sorry; that sucks. well if cycling is what caused it, cycling will cause it to die; so no endless invasion at least. glosso will look good, plus you will find it easier to trim.


----------



## rountreesj

I just trimmed out a head-sized amount of glosso last night...it is all dried up now though...could have sent you a bunch...


----------



## lekyiscool

rick4him said:


> Hey man sorry to hear about it - It will clean up soon.
> 
> Are you dosing ADA ferts? I just started and I can tell a BIG difference.
> 
> By the way I'm about to set up a 90p...with the Grand Solar One light!


same question here, also what types of ada ferts you using


----------



## jaidexl

Nice layout. I was hoping to beat you to the center scaped square tank but glass man still hasn't given me the tank pieces yet, and I still don't have rock . 

I've had diatoms in the 65gl ever since moving to the new house a few weeks ago, had to drain all six tanks and haul them across the city in the back of a pick up. :icon_eek: Our stars are not aligned properly.


----------



## CmLaracy

How do you guys think utricularia graminifolia would look in the foreground instead of HC or Glosso? Do you think it would throw off the perspective and make the tank look small?


----------



## Gatekeeper

Chris, 

I think a picture would help a little here. Didn't you have bad success already with UG in this tank under that lighting?

What about hairgrass? 

BTW:
I sent you a PM over at NJAGC, did you get it??


----------



## CmLaracy

gmccreedy said:


> Chris,
> 
> I think a picture would help a little here. Didn't you have bad success already with UG in this tank under that lighting?
> 
> What about hairgrass?
> 
> BTW:
> I sent you a PM over at NJAGC, did you get it??


Well the UG I received was a bit funky, grown emersed, from aquaspot world. But you are correct, I did not have success, but I'd like to try again if possible.

I've never liked hairgrass really, especially in foregrounds, it really throws off the scale for me. But now that I think about it, UG would most likely have the same affect.

Right now I'm leaning towards Glosso, what do you guys think?

Glenn, I don't remember receiving a pm, but I'll go check my box now. Everything has been a bit hectic for me lately (finals, aglae, ectect), and I really haven't been on NJAGC at all. lol


----------



## eyebeatbadgers

I'm a fan of UG, and when it grows well, is hard to beat IMO.

Go for it:icon_twis


----------



## @[email protected]

i havent seen a tank using it. i have seen pics of IT, but not of it and the whole tank. im looking forward to seeing it and your new scape. even a scape half as good as the last one it will be amazing, but i think your new scape will be mind-blowing.


----------



## CmLaracy

@[email protected] said:


> i havent seen a tank using it. i have seen pics of IT, but not of it and the whole tank. im looking forward to seeing it and your new scape. even a scape half as good as the last one it will be amazing, but i think your new scape will be mind-blowing.


Thanks man! I appreciate the kind words :thumbsup:


----------



## ColeMan

CmLaracy said:


> I've never liked hairgrass really, especially in foregrounds, it really throws off the scale for me.


You know, I just ordered (and planted) a ton of eleocharis acicularis, and, unfortunately, couldn't agree with you more. That said, a successful aquascape using E. acicularis is entirely possible, just more labor intensive, more planning, more thought and time. By the way, can;t wait to see the new scape, as mark said, if it's half as good as the last you'll be way ahead of the curve. Very much anticipating some new pics! And keep thinking out loud so I can steal ideas from you...hehe...:thumbsup:


----------



## roybot73

CmLaracy said:


> I've never liked hairgrass really, especially in foregrounds, it really throws off the scale for me. But now that I think about it, UG would most likely have the same affect.


Hey.....

What's wrong with hairgrass?!?!?! Especially in foregrounds?!?!?!:hihi:

It certainly isn't good for just any application. I don't think it's the right choice for your scape at all -- that being said, GO FOR THE GLOSSO!!!

I get the feeling you're going for something like the 90-P set up on pgs 22-24 of the '08 ADA Nature Aquarium Book. I'd supply a pic but the camera is out of the house atm...


----------



## CmLaracy

roybot73 said:


> Hey.....
> 
> What's wrong with hairgrass?!?!?! Especially in foregrounds?!?!?!:hihi:
> 
> It certainly isn't good for just any application. I don't think it's the right choice for your scape at all -- that being said, GO FOR THE GLOSSO!!!
> 
> I get the feeling you're going for something like the 90-P set up on pgs 22-24 of the '08 ADA Nature Aquarium Book. I'd supply a pic but the camera is out of the house atm...


You know, thats the tank I've been trying to replicate from the start... lol Good eye!

I have about 4 of that same catalog now... too many ADA shipments lol :eek5:


----------



## ColeMan

i don't think there's anything wrong with it, I just planted it in my own tank - it does mess with the perspective, though, and you need to compensate for it's height in the middle/background, yes?


----------



## CmLaracy

ColeMan said:


> i don't think there's anything wrong with it, I just planted it in my own tank - it does mess with the perspective, though, and you need to compensate for it's height in the middle/background, yes?


Most definitely


----------



## roybot73

ColeMan said:


> i don't think there's anything wrong with it, I just planted it in my own tank - it does mess with the perspective, though, and you need to compensate for it's height in the middle/background, yes?


Definitely. And it can be a bit of work, but there's nothing quite like the feeling of running your fingers over a lawn of freshly trimmed haigrass!!!

Not to derail your thread, but I think Lilaeopsis brasilensis makes a great foreground/accent plant. I've got some interspersed in with the hairgrass in my 20L.



CmLaracy said:


> You know, thats the tank I've been trying to replicate from the start... lol Good eye!
> 
> I have about 4 of that same catalog now... too many ADA shipments lol :eek5:


Thought so I love that tank!!!


----------



## xt0rted

I had UG covering half my 15 gallon tall and it looked really nice. Didn't throw off the scale but that also could of been because of the height. I'd say give it a shot again. The only issue I had with it was once my riccia took over the top of my tank and cut off a lot of the light the stuff died off pretty fast. I have a 96w Coralife over it, so I'm pretty high light.


----------



## Gatekeeper

Lilaeopsis brasilensis is definetly a great choice. And with that light, it should stay low. But moy experience (and a recent one at that) is that its a GSA magnet.

On the other hand... don't you have one of the tall grass in the background?? (vivipara?). No scale issues to me if you plant the foreground at all. If anything, it would compliment. But this is an opinion from someone who can't aquascape for crap.

Nothing wrong with glosso either my friend! I am sure if you pm Mike, he would give you a starter culture.


----------



## CmLaracy

FINALLY!!!!! 


I've got a consistent 0ppms of NH₄⁺ and NH₃

It will soon be time too put the plants back in. A week or so as I still need some plants to arrive, and some filter media. I've gotten some cool new stuff planned for this tank while I've been waiting for it to cycle. I'll tell you what one of my ideas consisted of, over 25 large rhizomes of nana petite MUAHAHAHA

I've got all the plants I need but the stems.... Still waiting on those.

I did go with glosso, got three VERY mediocre pots of it... I wont get much out of them, which is a good thing I guess as I don't want it taking over my tank in a month lol. 

Who votes for cyperus in both corners or just one? So far I've only had it in the left, but I ordered a little too much and I now have enough for both corners... I think it would look to symmetric, but what do you guys think?


----------



## Gatekeeper

Tough call with the cyperus without a picture, but I am always one for planting and letting it digest for a while (you can always pull it out if you don't like it.

Nana petite... great choice. There are some pros in our club with that plant!


----------



## CmLaracy

gmccreedy said:


> Tough call with the cyperus without a picture, but I am always one for planting and letting it digest for a while (you can always pull it out if you don't like it.
> 
> Nana petite... great choice. There are some pros in our club with that plant!


hmmm.... I'll have to give it some thought

I love the Nana petite, but I know it's going to be a challenge keeping the GSA off of it. How does Sergio do it?


----------



## @[email protected]

im staring at your scape and wondering where you will put all that anubias.
im sure it will look nice though, if the algae doesnt take it over. just pray and make weekly sacrifice of SAE and maybe the algae gods will leave your petites alone?


----------



## CmLaracy

@[email protected] said:


> im staring at your scape and wondering where you will put all that anubias.
> im sure it will look nice though, if the algae doesnt take it over. just pray and make weekly sacrifice of SAE and maybe the algae gods will leave your petites alone?


I've got 30 amanos and 10 ottos in there, the algae gods are staying as fay away as possible lol! :thumbsup: Also, 0 ammonia/ammonium helps :icon_roll

The petites are going in the rock crevices and on parts of the sticks. I may sell some as I think I have more than I need.


----------



## monkeyruler90

congrats on the stability
it must be a pain waiting for the tank to cycle


----------



## SuRje1976

Chris - I'd vote Cyperus on one side only. Might look to symmetrical otherwise. GSA free? You got me! My A. petite is not always GSA free. It wasn't at the May meeting! I have been able to keep it to a minimum I think, but it's tough when running a lot of light. How? Don't know. I've got tome nerites in the tank - they might help. I OD Excel daily, if I skip a day, it seems to get worse. If the water temp goes high, it gets worse. Water parameters? Don't really know - I'll check them now - it's been a long time since I tested...


----------



## CmLaracy

SuRje1976 said:


> Chris - I'd vote Cyperus on one side only. Might look to symmetrical otherwise. GSA free? You got me! My A. petite is not always GSA free. It wasn't at the May meeting! I have been able to keep it to a minimum I think, but it's tough when running a lot of light. How? Don't know. I've got tome nerites in the tank - they might help. I OD Excel daily, if I skip a day, it seems to get worse. If the water temp goes high, it gets worse. Water parameters? Don't really know - I'll check them now - it's been a long time since I tested...


Thanks Sergio! I'd have to guess low temps and consistent ODing of excel would do the trick. What daily dosage would you recommend for my tank? It's 40g

Thanks Serg


----------



## SuRje1976

Chris - I dose 15mL daily for the 120P, but I do 15% daily water changes. Maybe 9-10mL dailly for the 75P? I'd say start lower and watch the shrimp - they seem to be the most sensitive to the stuff. 

Just finished testing my water. I only test NO3 and PO4 these days. NO3 is at 7.84ppm and PO4 is at 1.77ppm if you're interested.


----------



## Guest

CmLaracy said:


> I've got 30 amanos and 10 ottos in there, the algae gods are staying as fay away as possible lol! :thumbsup: Also, 0 ammonia/ammonium helps :icon_roll
> 
> The petites are going in the rock crevices and on parts of the sticks. I may sell some as I think I have more than I need.


Hey man what kind of fish are you thinking of putting in here?

Also you have 30 amanos in this tank? Isn't that alot in a tank that size? Do you have that much algae?


----------



## CmLaracy

cardinals and rummy's 30 of each

the amanos are fine, theres 0 algae and I've been giving them algae wafers.

I just finished planting everything but the stems I'm still waiting on. I love the way the anubias turned out.

Serg, thanks for the help!


----------



## Guest

Hey are you really running 60ppms of co2 at this stage? I think that is WAY to much for a start up tank that isn't est. 

When you get live stock in and have to turn the co2 down (alot) your plants are going to have to readjust for such a huge drop in co2. I would do as Jeff suggests and start out at 1bps for a month, then SLOWLY turn it up...

Lots less issues doing it that why..

that is a huge drop for your plants to have to get used to...


----------



## CmLaracy

*don't worry*



rick4him said:


> Hey are you really running 60ppms of co2 at this stage? I think that is WAY to much for a start up tank that isn't est.
> 
> When you get live stock in and have to turn the co2 down (alot) your plants are going to have to readjust for such a huge drop in co2. I would do as Jeff suggests and start out at 1bps for a month, then SLOWLY turn it up...
> 
> Lots less issues doing it that why..
> 
> that is a huge drop for your plants to have to get used to...


Don't worry, I've got my CO2 under control :icon_roll 

Right now it's at 1.5bps and 35ppms :thumbsup: 

Don't know where you got the 60ppms from.... I know the other day I was blasting it for algae control but otherwise having it that high would have killed my Amano's and Otto's, and right now they're just dandy. I'm pretty sure I know exactly what I'm doing, chemistry is my strong suit 

Oh, and what would my plants have to adjust _from_, I just put them in :icon_roll


----------



## Guest

CmLaracy said:


> Don't worry, I've got my CO2 under control :icon_roll
> 
> Right now it's at 1.5bps and 35ppms :thumbsup:
> 
> Don't know where you got the 60ppms from.... I know the other day I was blasting it for algae control but otherwise having it that high would have killed my Amano's and Otto's, and right now they're just dandy. I'm pretty sure I know exactly what I'm doing, chemistry is my strong suit



ha,ha.. Yah 35 pms is great. Someone had mentioned you had it at 60 something..I was like WHAT!! 

Gald to hear things are going well bro! Can't wait to see yours (or mine) finally get filled in!


----------



## CmLaracy

rick4him said:


> ha,ha.. Yah 35 pms is great. Someone had mentioned you had it at 60 something..I was like WHAT!!
> 
> Gald to hear things are going well bro! Can't wait to see yours (or mine) finally get filled in!


Thanks! Yeah I'm excited as well, ours will be filling in at the same times really. I got my ppms up to 165 one time (very brief, pH was about 4.2 lol no livestock of course), wanted to see how efficient my diffuser was. Super soft water also helps


----------



## CmLaracy

Just ordered this package from CalAquaLabs, the Set D with the half off double check. Going to be replacing the plastic Rena ones with these bad boys. The tank is going great now, good growth. Can't show you any pictures YET cause it's only half planted. Still waiting on some trimmings and such.

I will be getting some Ramirezi (German blue rams) for this tank too add some contrast, and keep my schools tight. Anyone recommend a certain number? I was thinking maybe a pair or two. I want to keep the fighting to a minimum, its a 42g tank with a lot of depth. I don't know much about fish, so help me out here. I have 20 rummies, I'm leaning towards 30 cardinals, and a pair of Ramirezi. Sound good? Fish Guru's give me some advice here, thanks in advanced :thumbsup:


----------



## deleted_user_16

ur lucky u have that much money. ur mean, making us follow. people will riot if u do not give pics!!!!!!!!!


----------



## CmLaracy

fishman9809 said:


> ur lucky u have that much money. ur mean, making us follow. people will riot if u do not give pics!!!!!!!!!


Once again fishman, I have a job :thumbsup:


----------



## deleted_user_16

lol, pictures pleeeeeez, riots, pickets, then pitchforks and fire i tell you!!!!!!!!  

sounds like the tank is comin along nicely. wat plants are you still to plant?


----------



## CmLaracy

fishman9809 said:


> lol, pictures pleeeeeez, riots, pickets, then pitchforks and fire i tell you!!!!!!!!
> 
> sounds like the tank is comin along nicely. wat plants are you still to plant?


Rotala sp 'Green' and 'Colorata'
All that Taiwan moss I've got
and the Ferns

I'm calling it phase 2 of the planting process.

Basically, I'm too lazy to tie the moss and ferns so I'm delaying untill I get the stems. LOL


----------



## deleted_user_16

cant wait, tying moss is a major pita tho. how big are the java ferns? large?


----------



## CmLaracy

fishman9809 said:


> cant wait, tying moss is a major pita tho. how big are the java ferns? large?


They're small separated bushels of needle leaf. :thumbsup: 

Anyone on the fish? http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/634144-post394.html


----------



## deleted_user_16

why dont you increase your rummy school and add 2 pairs? that would be nice. you would get nice schooling and nice contrast.  rams sshow their true personalities when they are in small "packs"


----------



## mott

Chris where are you buying Ram's? I have been looking for good females in Jersey everywhere, can't seem to find any.
I agree about the rummy's, one big school would be great.


----------



## CmLaracy

mott said:


> Chris where are you buying Ram's? I have been looking for good females in Jersey everywhere, can't seem to find any.
> I agree about the rummy's, one big school would be great.


I don't know lol, was hoping my LFS would have some or be able to order me in some. So maybe 30 rummies and 30 cardinals? I already have 20 rummies waiting in the wing.


----------



## lauraleellbp

IMO your stocking species sound like a good mix (same as I've planned for my 90, too- so some of my personal favs  ), but the #s are a bit high for a 42gal, especially if you want to add some Rams.

You might be able to get away with 2 pairs of Rams _if _they are able to set up territories where they can't see each other... but since it sounds like you want fairly large tetra schools, you might do better with just one pair.

Apistos would be another fish to consider instead of Rams. There are some pretty fantastic-looking species more commonly available now. :thumbsup: 

Including a pair of cichlids, I'd probably drop your tetra schools down to 20 each. That's still pretty heavy stocking- but I know from your journal you're great with your tank maintenance.  

No scavengers planned for this tank other than the shrimp?


----------



## xt0rted

You can try Tropiquarium on rt. 35 in Ocean Twp. Despite some of the people coming off a bit arrogant or misinformed about some of the fish as long as you know what you want the selection is pretty good. I was in there 2 weeks ago and walked out with some nice fish. Their prices are a bit high for some things though. For instance I’ve seen blue eye rainbows for sale for up to $5 or so each but they wanted $30 a pair :icon_eek: yet I was able to get m/f pairs of Scarlet Badis for $9. They also have some nice display tanks and an indoor pond.


----------



## mott

^^^^^^That is an awesome place! The salt display is simply stunning.
They have a good selection of FW fish there but in the 4 times Ive been there this past year not once did I see any German ram's.


----------



## Gatekeeper

Chris,

I would say go to Fishtown USA on Rt 17. They usually have a very healthy stock of Rams. In fact they even have the Balloon Ram right now, which is quite unique.

They are still a finicky fish though and expect to lose a few. I would say two pair is the way to go. Truly a spectacular fish.

FWIW, they don't school all that well. I would keep the 20 rummies you have, no more.

But that is just my opinion.


----------



## CmLaracy

gmccreedy said:


> Chris,
> 
> I would say go to Fishtown USA on Rt 17. They usually have a very healthy stock of Rams. In fact they even have the Balloon Ram right now, which is quite unique.
> 
> They are still a finicky fish though and expect to lose a few. I would say two pair is the way to go. Truly a spectacular fish.
> 
> FWIW, they don't school all that well. I would keep the 20 rummies you have, no more.
> 
> But that is just my opinion.


Thats what I was thinking in the first place, Fishtown. They have everything lol


----------



## cicjay

been checking up on this thread all the way.
really awesome tank.

found this site for pics of Utricularia sp in a planted set up.
really nice if you manage to do it.

http://www.pbase.com/plantella/hc60

by Oliver Knott.

would look great in the new scape.


----------



## A Hill

CmLaracy said:


> Everything has been a bit hectic for me lately (finals, aglae, ectect),


I think this must be a classic teenager aquascaper quote. Who else would compare the annoyance of finals with algae :hihi

I would go with the rams. I think One nice pair would be best, but keep groups female heavy if I remember correctly, so like a trio of 1.2 would also work. 

Rummynose are also great fish, not much bioload either and school tightly, I wouldn't worry about how many you decide to put in.

So how about an updated picture?

-Andrew


----------



## @[email protected]

yeah id like to see an update.

IMO finals are GREAT (no sarcasm)! when i had them 3 weeks ago, i showed up, took them, and left. i was home by 10:30 if i had the exam in the morning (one a day), and i could wake up at 10 if i had it at 12 and still got home before 2 and i normally get home at 3.


----------



## CmLaracy

A Hill said:


> I think this must be a classic teenager aquascaper quote. Who else would compare the annoyance of finals with algae :hihi
> 
> I would go with the rams. I think One nice pair would be best, but keep groups female heavy if I remember correctly, so like a trio of 1.2 would also work.
> 
> Rummynose are also great fish, not much bioload either and school tightly, I wouldn't worry about how many you decide to put in.
> 
> So how about an updated picture?
> 
> -Andrew


When the lights come on today I'll snap you guys some photos, it's only half planted, or a little bit less. :thumbsup: 

For the fish, I'm definitely considering the 18 or so rummies I have now, 20 cards, and a pair of nice germans. Thanks for the advice on the Rams :thumbsup: 



@[email protected] said:


> yeah id like to see an update.
> 
> IMO finals are GREAT (no sarcasm)! when i had them 3 weeks ago, i showed up, took them, and left. i was home by 10:30 if i had the exam in the morning (one a day), and i could wake up at 10 if i had it at 12 and still got home before 2 and i normally get home at 3.


I didn't mind finals too much. Got a perfect score on my chem final, first kid to do it at the school :eek5: lol. Finals aren't terrible, but my spanish 3 one was OMG don't even get me started.


----------



## @[email protected]

CmLaracy said:


> When the lights come on today I'll snap you guys some photos, it's only half planted, or a little bit less. :thumbsup:
> 
> For the fish, I'm definitely considering the 18 or so rummies I have now, 20 cards, and a pair of nice germans. Thanks for the advice on the Rams :thumbsup:


wait, at 2:19 pm your lights arent on!? how short is your photoperiod?

sounds like a good stocking list. nice south american fish.




CmLaracy said:


> I didn't mind finals too much. Got a perfect score on my chem final, first kid to do it at the school :eek5: lol. Finals aren't terrible, but my spanish 3 one was OMG don't even get me started.


congrats! your parents must be happy, lol. 

spanish just plain sucks. my parents keep bugging me about it and i just suck (for example, i cant tell the difference between por and para. WTH!? they both mean "for"!).


----------



## lauraleellbp

*sigh* still no pics? la de da de dummm :hihi: 

Marko- para is "because." Translating it that way instead of "for" in my head always helped me remember the difference, anyways.


----------



## @[email protected]

my worksheet had like 5 meanings for para, and 8 or so for por. and i am pretty sure, that "because" was one of the meanings for por (it was stated as "because of / reason for errand".


----------



## CmLaracy

@[email protected] said:


> my worksheet had like 5 meanings for para, and 8 or so for por. and i am pretty sure, that "because" was one of the meanings for por (it was stated as "because of / reason for errand".


Thread jackin' huh? :icon_roll 

Just messin bro, here's your shots... and Laura, no whining! lol
NOTE, this tank has no stems in it yet, and is still missing a lot of plants, about 200 stems of rotala green and colorata that will be going in the back.


----------



## roybot73

Nice! It's about time bro!!!

Love the A. Petite -- once the Glosso starts to fill in and grow up onto the rocks it will be very nice. I like that you've got some Crypts in there as well

Did you ever get the diffuser replaced? And if so how's the new one?


----------



## CmLaracy

roybot73 said:


> Nice! It's about time bro!!!
> 
> Love the A. Petite -- once the Glosso starts to fill in and grow up onto the rocks it will be very nice. I like that you've got some Crypts in there as well
> 
> Did you ever get the diffuser replaced? And if so how's the new one?


Thanks man, I can't wait for everything to fill in as well. This is a tank that will ripen with age... I designed it with long term growth in mind, so I can kick back and relax this summer and watch it slowly fill in. Plus I've got a job and a full time sport so I really can't be doing much maintenance. I think you'll be surprised at how much it resembles that scape on page 24 in say 4 months. :thumbsup: 

Yes, I have Lucens merging with the glosso, Tropica on the left, Wendtii Green on the left, and a whole bunch of becketti petchii on the right. My Bolbitis isn't doing so great cause of the time it spent in a poorly light tank. It'll bounce back.

I've also got some of the smaller rocks in the scape covered in moss, which I hope will give the tank a softer, more natural feel.

Still have a lot of work to do on this though in terms of planting.

I didn't get the diffuser replaced, as this one is working alright. I have to bleach it every two weeks to keep the bubbles small though.  I did test it out yesterday to see what kind of CO2 I could really get into the water, and an hours on pretty high and 3 shrimp died :icon_cry: Oh well, at least I know my diffuser works.


----------



## @[email protected]

i like the petites. they fit in nice. 

yep, needs stems. i think the colorata will look great. with your lighting the colors may resemble those of macrandra. lol

im sure the glosso will fill in fast. it has runners as well as horizontal stems, so in a few days or a week you may see little green leaves randomly popping out of your substrate. then it will start to fill in, FAST.


----------



## CmLaracy

@[email protected] said:


> i like the petites. they fit in nice.
> 
> yep, needs stems. i think the colorata will look great. with your lighting the colors may resemble those of macrandra. lol
> 
> im sure the glosso will fill in fast. it has runners as well as horizontal stems, so in a few days or a week you may see little green leaves randomly popping out of your substrate. then it will start to fill in, FAST.


I had stems in there before and they looked GREAT, but the Diatoms killed em all. :icon_cry:


----------



## @[email protected]

yeah, i know. 
if i were an optimist, i would probably say something like: well now you have learned from the experience and now that it isnt there the stems will do great.
since im not, my response is: yeah, order new ones. then in a few monthes something will happen and they will die too. along with the glosso, of course.

lol just kidding, you probably will be algae free like before. however there is always the chance of a loss of power like the one from a few years ago (the really long one in the summer), that would do the trick :biggrin: .


----------



## Gatekeeper

Speaking of which, Marko brings up an excellent point Chris, you should invest in one or two of these little suckers in case of a power outage this summer.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3693

They are noisy as hell, but can keeps things going and stable for the fish. Amguard by Seachem is another must have. 

Ask Momotaro... he will tell you. I believe he went like a week without power last summer and was able to right himself pretty quickly if I recall.


----------



## CmLaracy

gmccreedy said:


> Speaking of which, Marko brings up an excellent point Chris, you should invest in one or two of these little suckers in case of a power outage this summer.
> 
> http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3693
> 
> They are noisy as hell, but can keeps things going and stable for the fish. Amguard by Seachem is another must have.
> 
> Ask Momotaro... he will tell you. I believe he went like a week without power last summer and was able to right himself pretty quickly if I recall.


Very interesting. I'll look into it, thanks Glenn :thumbsup: 

In terms of being algae free Marko, I'm just going to try and do what I did with the last scape, but be a little bit more on top of it. This time around I don't have as much uptake in terms of the plants and how much nutrients they use. Until those stems arrive I'm going to have to watch it like a hound, cause I have no idea what my uptake is right now. On the old setup, everything in there just hogged up all the nutrients, and I new I could just start my dosing fresh the next morning because I new almost everything in the water had been sucked up by the end of the photoperiod. With these Anubias, Ferns, and Crypts I really don't have any idea of exactly what my tank uses per photoperiod, so these last couple days have been a bit stressful as I try to find a sweet spot. Right now I'm dosing about 1.5ppms PO₄ (keep GSA off my petites), 4ppms NO₃, 8mL Micros + Fe, and a whole bunch o' K. It's been changing on a day to day basis. I started low, dosing .5ppms of PO₄ each day, then noticed some GSA popping up on my anubias and rocks, upped it to 1.0, still wasn't enough, now I'm doing 1.5ppms a day; I was also dosing 2ppms of NO₃ each day, but saw some BGA coming (teeny teeny amounts), so now I'm up to 4ppms per day. I'm positive that the GSA is not a result of low CO₂ as I've killed a few shrimp from too much CO₂, and I'm positive that the BGA is not from low flow as it's in an area thats getting a lot of flow. So you could say I'm still working on my dosing :icon_eek: . It's really tough without a bunch of stems to just suck everything up real fast so you know your at 0 everything the next day. I have a feeling that each day there's a bit of left over nutrients and that it could cause me troubles... thus I'm doing a 10% wc everyday. So confusing, high light + low light plants = dosing nightmare! 

PCE


----------



## MARIMOBALL

hey can you take a pic of your ADA-like stand. I don't think you ever posted a pic. sorry if Im off topic.


----------



## CmLaracy

Here's a nice photo update, everything is growing nicely. Still no stems...

Only half planted STILL


----------



## @[email protected]

the glosso doesnt look too good, but it never does initially; but it will start to grow like a weed very soon. and with a better leaf-stem structure too.

when do the stems get planted?


----------



## CmLaracy

@[email protected] said:


> the glosso doesnt look too good, but it never does initially; but it will start to grow like a weed very soon. and with a better leaf-stem structure too.
> 
> when do the stems get planted?


The Glosso is actually growing pretty well right now, I'm not worried. The stems get planted in a week OR two :thumbsup:


----------



## unirdna

The "petite" makes the wood look huge. Nice choice.


----------



## CmLaracy

unirdna said:


> The "petite" makes the wood look huge. Nice choice.


Thanks, my goal with this scape is to make the tank look larger than it actually is, and the petite was the first step in doing so. I also chose small crypts and thin stems. :thumbsup:


----------



## ikuzo

great scape overall, except the cyperus at the back is bothering me. unirdna is right, beautiful petite placements.


----------



## CmLaracy

When should I make the new thread? Should I just leave it in here and keep doing the updates in this thread? I think it's a bit too cluttered now, time to start a new one for the new scape, what do you guys think?


----------



## CL

Yeah, the petite looks great, one of my favorite plants (if not my favorite). About how many pieces did you use? I would just keep this thread alive.


----------



## wyeto

I think that some weeping moss would look awesome on the wood were it is parallel to the substrate it would probably mess with what your ideas of the scape are but I think it would look awesome!


----------



## ikuzo

CmLaracy said:


> When should I make the new thread? Should I just leave it in here and keep doing the updates in this thread? I think it's a bit too cluttered now, time to start a new one for the new scape, what do you guys think?


go for it...


----------



## @[email protected]

i think a better way to use moss would be to use X-mass moss and place it on the higher parts of the driftwood on the upper side of the branches, but keep it from getting to long by frequent trimming.

i think using this thread is fine. it is the same tank...


----------



## nate_mcnasty

i love everything about this tank but the forground plants. i would go with something with a smaller leaf structer. thats the only thing that makes it look small to me


----------



## Guest

Hey man everything is look great.
I have some glooso in my 25 gallon tank and it is looking great. That stuff really grows like weeks once you get it going.

I can't wait to see it all filled in. don't you love the waiting game?? tick, tick, tick...


----------



## CmLaracy

nate_mcnasty said:


> i love everything about this tank but the forground plants. i would go with something with a smaller leaf structer. thats the only thing that makes it look small to me


I thought about that, and came to the conclusion that I'm just too bored with HC, and wanted to try something new. Glossostigma was the next smallest thing, and I thought it might look nice crawling up the rocks. HC won't do that :thumbsup:

And I used about 28 petite rhizomes to answer a question :thumbsup:


----------



## nate_mcnasty

i would like to see glosso too! keep us posted


----------



## MedRed

if think the glosso will look nice once it starts doing it's thing. the leaves will be a lot smaller. I have it in my 5.5 gallon and it doesn't throw the scale off.


----------



## Guest

Hey man I 'm thinking of stocking my tank the same as yours just about.

What do you think I could get away with in my tank? Could I do 25 rummies and 25 card tetras? Also what else can you add in here with them that look nice? 
Is 50 to many fish for the tank I was working on?


----------



## riverrat

:thumbsup: Your tank looks great for running at the speed of light with slow growers!

I started a new tank about the time of yours. I have no powersand under the Aquasoil. I have been fighting gsa and know my co2 is huge because I have no critters yet. I am relieved to see you are dosing phosphate at the levels you are. I thought I was going nuts and I have been dosing about 1.25ppm a day and it does not seem to be enough? Same with you? I have a fair amount of stems in my tank unlike you and phosphate is being eaten up with a vengence. I might have to up my levels. I have been afraid to go any higher. Seeing you tank eat them up with your plant species and mass you have in your tank kinda makes me feel better about it. 


I can't wait to see your stems go in.


By the way if I up my phosphate now and it all goes wrong its your fault Okay? 

:eek5: 

Dave


----------



## MedRed

The only bad thing about your tank... is the PLAID wall behind it... lol...


----------



## @[email protected]

a black garbage bag from the kitchen, and scotch tape could fix that pretty fast...


----------



## deleted_user_16

any updates? got those stems planted?


----------



## Renegade545

Very nice, It'll be awesome once it fills in.


----------



## CmLaracy

the pipes and drop checker came today and the stems are being shipped on Monday. Expect an update sometime next week


----------



## Gatekeeper

Where did you get the stems from Chris? Man that has been quite some time...


----------



## CmLaracy

gmccreedy said:


> Where did you get the stems from Chris? Man that has been quite some time...


yes it has, over a month. I got the stems from Stephen Rountree, a great guy! He's extremely generous. I got the lily pipes and double check drop checker from cal aqua labs, the quality is fantastic. I recommend them highly


----------



## garuf

I wish people wouldn't keep on about the double drop checker, they're a total swizz.


----------



## roybot73

garuf said:


> I wish people wouldn't keep on about the double drop checker, they're a total swizz.


Not to bag on your purchase, but I agree that they are, in fact, a swizz...


----------



## CmLaracy

yeah but I got it for half price with the promotional deal so no biggy. Cost the same as a normal one because of it, and didn't have to pay extra shipping. Good deal if you ask me, even if it is kinda swizzy lol


----------



## lauraleellbp

U guys are making me feel old... but I'm gonna ask anyways; what's a swizz?


----------



## @[email protected]

HAHA!
laura doesnt know what a swizz is!
LOL

jk
i dont know what a swizz is and im 15 and dont consider myself old.


----------



## MedRed

garuf said:


> I wish people wouldn't keep on about the double drop checker, they're a total swizz.


I don't think so. My biggest issue is that some of my tanks are so well planted that the drop checker always looks green because of the leaves behind. With the double decker, I can go off of lightness and darkness. If it's darker than the reference it's blue. If It's lighter it's yellow. Looks great and works great.


----------



## garuf

The double drop checkers are a swizz (a british colloquialism meaning a con) because every tanks co2 requirements are different and just by setting the D/C to green doesn't mean you have the correct amount of co2, especially in higher light tanks where you may have to run your drop checker yellow to ensure there is enough co2. 
And med red, did you not think of painting the back of the drop checker white like I used to, it makes life much more easy.


For a more scientific review of the above statement see these threads on Ukaps.
http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=1560
http://www.ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=1809&hilit=cal+aqua+double


----------



## NstyN8

Wow "Swizz" wasn't even in www.urbandictionary.com


----------



## Gatekeeper

Lets get this thread back on track and not make this a slam against the OP's choice of equipment, whether you believe in its integrity or not.

If you want to debate this, take it to another thread.


----------



## ZooTycoonMaster

Omg you have a $100+ tank and thousands of dollars in other stuff! You're only 15/16! How are you going to pay for college? Or what are you going to do with your tank during college?

Nice tank


----------



## @[email protected]

well he can always sell the tank for colledge. or he can use it as a biology project and get a scholarship. or perhaps his parents actually love him and will pay for his colledge (or will pay just to make the neighbors THINK they love him, like mine do; LOL).
but i dont know where you got the initially funding CM. let me in on it.


----------



## roybot73

OK dude...

What's going on here? No pic update since July 4th? Did your tank disappear? Self destruct? Spontaneously combust?


----------



## CmLaracy

roybot73 said:


> OK dude...
> 
> What's going on here? No pic update since July 4th? Did your tank disappear? Self destruct? Spontaneously combust?


I didn't see an option for "kill itself"

And to make matters worse, I'm going on a 14 days vacation soon.  

It would be a miracle if this tank made it to september, I'm grasping at straws here, really in distress. I may be on to something as we speak, only time will tell. If what I'm doing now fails... well I may just have to re-do it again when I get back. :frown: 

I really don't understand why the growth in my last iteration of this tank was so clean and healthy, not to mention extremely fast, while this tank basically kills anything I put in it. Oh well

*FML* (go look it up in the urban dictionary)


----------



## Gatekeeper

Slow growers + Metal Halide.

Need i say more?


----------



## CmLaracy

gmccreedy said:


> Slow growers + Metal Halide.
> 
> Need i say more?


I've got 250+ stems of Rotundafolia in there, along with 120+ sp green stems. I hope it'll turn things around


----------



## ColeMan

So exactly what kind of troubles are you having? Just curious - I know it can be a difficult subject...


----------



## CmLaracy

ColeMan said:


> So exactly what kind of troubles are you having? Just curious - I know it can be a difficult subject...


brown algae taking all the nutrients. The plants can't grow, so then the brown algae gets even more of the nutrients. It's a viscous cycle. SO, I put all those extremely fast growing stems in there to take away the nutrients and starve the brown algae. I'm banking on it working


----------



## nate_mcnasty

what about some floaters? horn wort frogbit? i could send you some and i'd do a 20to 1 bleach dip for you


----------



## Gatekeeper

Stems should help, I think you need to get some of the brown gunk out though too. Maybe a do a huge water change get those nutrients reset. Maybe remove some of the slow growers for a bit to let things settle in??

I assume by this point the glosso is a goner?


I still have your Excel Chris. I need to get that over to you, hope you didn't run out...


----------



## CmLaracy

gmccreedy said:


> Stems should help, I think you need to get some of the brown gunk out though too. Maybe a do a huge water change get those nutrients reset. Maybe remove some of the slow growers for a bit to let things settle in??
> 
> I assume by this point the glosso is a goner?
> 
> 
> I still have your Excel Chris. I need to get that over to you, hope you didn't run out...


I'm not out, but getting there. I felt no remorse completely tearing out that glosso to get to the brown stuff as it only costed me $7. I did a nice clean-up today, got to as much of the brown stuff as I possibly could. I also did a 50% WC the other day, as well as a 25% today. Right now it doesn't look to terrible, but in a few days it may just go straight back. What do you people recommend I do during my 14 day vacation? Should I just come back and empty all of it but the soil and re-plant and such? IDK


----------



## nate_mcnasty

maybe a 2-3 hour photo period?


----------



## macclellan

Sorry to hear about all the problems you've been having.

Still a very high light advocate? Curiosity is killing this cat.


----------



## CmLaracy

nate_mcnasty said:


> maybe a 2-3 hour photo period?


I was thinking the same thing. Maybe 2 and a half with the light up realllly high. It may even force me to very slowly get the thing balanced, somethign I wouldn't have the patience to do if I was home lol


----------



## nate_mcnasty

you could get a friend to help too! just set all the ferts premesured for each day and a chart and pay him like $15 (better than having to pay $40)


----------



## roybot73

gmccreedy said:


> Slow growers + Metal Halide.
> 
> Need i say more?


I've got a 70w Metal Halide on my 60-P which is full of slow growers... No real issues except a bit of GSA on the glass, which I suspect is due to a lack of Phosphorus in the ADA 'Magic Juice' ferts (I'm starting to dose some P daily as of late, and have noticed a bit of an improvement...)

Chris -- Did I read somewhere on the forum that you're on well water? Would that have anything to do with it? I know summertime well water where I grew up could be kinda funky from time to time...

Just throwing out ideas here...


----------



## Gatekeeper

Robb,

I think he had a bad "settling in" period. I saw it a few weeks ago and I really think that it just got out of wack with the high lights and slow growers and all he did was chase the algae. There was just no competition in there and everything available to the algae to keep going.

That said, he is running 150 Watts i believe as opposed to 70 Watt. Make a difference, maybe. But I still think he got trapped pretty quick. Happens to us all.

Keep your chin up Chris, let those weeds do their thing for a while.


----------



## MedRed

roybot... what 70w MH are you running. I'm going to need one for my 60-H


----------



## CL

I'm sure your tank will balance out some time. Those stems should help a lot.


----------



## roybot73

MedRed said:


> roybot... what 70w MH are you running. I'm going to need one for my 60-H


Sorry to hijack, Chris...
It's the 70W version of the one that Cm's using. The stock bulb delivers amazing color rendition, as well as PAR by the bucketload. Don't even think of switching it out!
http://www.hellolights.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=548
Shoot me a PM for further discussion:thumbsup:


----------



## rountreesj

I have a 20 high as well as a 55 and I had GSA and some brown algae in both of them at times...the key to getting it under control is to limit light and get TONS of stems and leave it...don't even fertilize it! add some co2...when the plants are rooted and acclimated well...then you add ferts..othewise, the algae always acclimates faster and will get a foothold first...


----------



## @[email protected]

CmLaracy said:


> I've got 250+ stems of Rotundafolia in there, along with 120+ sp green stems. I hope it'll turn things around


how do you know?
you didnt count did you (i hope not!)?

any idea which brown algae?
diatoms? have an oto army handy maybe? 
people say algae eaters dont work. they never put a SAE in a 6 gallon tank; dont look at me like that, i moved him to the 20L when he grew bigger.

get hornwort. its presence is famine for algae. this plant can suck up nutrients like no tomorrow, and the growth is explosive. it grows over an inch every 2 days in my tank; in you tank with a metal halide, algae better watch out.


----------



## deleted_user_16

how ails your issues?


----------



## Gatekeeper

I believe he is still on vacation.


----------



## CmLaracy

gmccreedy said:


> I believe he is still on vacation.


nope, I'm back, but leaving for round two in Bermuda on tuesday. I'm doing a restart on this tank in 3 weeks. Leaving it black until then.


----------



## rountreesj

sooo... you took my advice...sometimes its better to restart early before its too much frustration...


----------



## CmLaracy

rountreesj said:


> sooo... you took my advice...sometimes its better to restart early before its too much frustration...


well, I really just left the tank black for about a month, everything withered away, and I've spent the last 4 days cleaning it as good as I can. It's spotless now, so YET ANOTHER replant will commence on friday and saturday of next. *fingers crossed*


----------



## Guest

Good luck with it - sorry to hear about your issues.

I've had some good luck with mine - (knock on wood!)


----------



## CmLaracy

.....


----------



## Guest

Well actually to much co2 can cause issues in your tank (even with out live stock) - it causes many imbalances in a tank. (perhaps a reason you had so many issues)

Also I"m not sure what pictures you are looking at - but I actually have no bba in my tank - in fact my tank is pretty much alega free. (did you look at my most recent pictures?)

Anyways - I would say take it slower this next time around - I think you'll be better off.... 

Good luck with it.


----------



## Guest

And by the way - my MH is actually the Grand Solar One light - it's a nice one.


----------



## thief

To bad,

But I think this can only mean a better tank to happen soon. Will you be conducting a new Hardscape too?


----------



## ColeMan

rick4him said:


> Well actually to much co2 can cause issues in your tank (even with out live stock) - it causes many imbalances in a tank. (perhaps a reason you had so many issues)
> 
> Also I"m not sure what pictures you are looking at - but I actually have no bba in my tank - in fact my tank is pretty much alega free. (did you look at my most recent pictures?)
> 
> Anyways - I would say take it slower this next time around - I think you'll be better off....
> 
> Good luck with it.


what kind of issues does too much CO2 cause (other than those associated with livestock)? There's nothing I can think of....nothing at all. 

Hey...I remember that BBA! :hihi:


----------



## Guest

It's not worth getting into. Yes I did have SOME bba a while back - but my most recent pictures look very nice if I must say so myself.


----------



## ColeMan

well - tell me about these so called "imbalances" too much CO2 causes...Surely that's not what you're saying isn't worth getting into!


----------



## thief

Also can't too much CO2 mess with the Biological bacteria? I would think that they need some O2?


----------



## ColeMan

I guess I should have said "reasonable" CO2 levels....


----------



## ColeMan

thief said:


> Also can't too much CO2 mess with the Biological bacteria? I would think that they need some O2?


I would imagine it would be a lack of )2 moreso than an abundance of CO2...


----------



## Guest

My co2 is BLASTING. many people have bba even with high levels of co2. 

There are MANY issues involved in this hobby.


----------



## ColeMan

Rick - you're not answering my question!! come on now....


----------



## CL

CmLaracy said:


> BBA is caused by a low level of CO₂. PERIOD.


Yepp, you got it


----------



## roybot73

rick4him said:


> My co2 is BLASTING. many people have bba even with high levels of co2.
> 
> There are MANY issues involved in this hobby.


Dude, I don't think _anyone_ here "has it all figured out", and I'm pretty sure no one's tank is "PERFECT"...


----------



## ColeMan

I can attest to this myself...it's kind of crazy, but true, I promise. 

I left my spraybar up for two days. A needle leaf java fern got a tiny spot (the size of the diameter of a ball point pen) of BBA on one leaf. What's interesting is that this particular leaf (and indeed plant) sit directly across from a hydor koralia 3, which sits directly underneath the spraybar that injects the CO2 to my tank, so essentially this would be the one spot in the tank that would always see a high CO2 saturation (though I can't confirm this with testing, I can only use logic). But since there was outgassing occurring, my CO2 levels were low (for only 2 days, mind you) and BBA wanted to take a hold in my tank...I lowered the spraybar, and two days later it had disappeared. 

This is the truth.


----------



## ColeMan

rick4him said:


> My co2 is BLASTING. many people have bba even with high levels of co2.
> 
> There are MANY issues involved in this hobby.


The silence is deafening Rick! Where is the answer (or at least response) to my question!!


----------



## garuf

http://www.ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1521&start=20

Read james replies on bba you don't have hard water do you?


----------



## Guest

By the way - you said that "anyone can do it" talking about following a suggested routine by ADA - that is false. Many people have had many issues, even when following that advice.

As far as my co2 I have a store-bought, in-line diffuser - so my co2 is getting dissolved very well in my tank. It's funny everyone on these sites pretty much repeats things they hear/see other people say - with out any knowledge on the subject itself. 

To say a lack of CO2 in the water is the ONLY reason a tank can have bba is funny. It may be a cause of a way - but not THE cause of EVERY WAY - that is absurd. 

Anyways - as much as I would love to hang out on my computer tonight - I'm heading out for the night. Good luck with you tank.


----------



## Guest

garuf said:


> http://www.ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1521&start=20
> 
> Read james replies on bba you don't have hard water do you?


Not sure - but I don't have BBA either.... 

If you want to see current pictures I suggest clicking on the link in my sig.


----------



## ColeMan

yep


----------



## Momotaro

I have read this chatter, and I don't care for the tone. I suggest it all get taken down a couple of notches.

I found it interesting and pretty counter-intuitive that a comment was made that too much CO2 causes BBA. I have run aquariums for months on end with no fish and super high levels of CO2 without a hint of BBA. 

I would *truly appreciate *some insight as to how high levels of CO2 cause BBA or what type of algae inducing imbalance a high level of CO2 causes. I ask from the standpoint of a curious student....not someone who is harassing, so please explain.


Mike


----------



## Gatekeeper

This thread has been reopened after _careful _moderation. Please keep it clean guys, its just a hobby. This should be fun and enjoying.

Feel free to express your opinions. Debate. Its healthy for _all of us_. But don't get angry.


----------



## Guest

Ha,ha I agree. Some people get way to carried away over this stuff - it should be fun. 

and to "cml" good luck on your next tank. (and keep that co2 down)


----------



## Gatekeeper

Why should he keep the CO2 down? You have yet to support this "evidence" that eludes all of us.


----------



## Guest

gmccreedy said:


> Why should he keep the CO2 down? You have yet to support this "evidence" that eludes all of us.


I would suggest looking at MANY different postings on this topics - I don't have time to explain it all. But I am saying you don't need to BLAST it during the start of your tank. I"m simply saying SLOWER is better. Let your plants grown in, let you tank get stable, and then SLOWLY over time increase co2. I don't think I need to explain why that is the best way to do things. 

It's pretty easy to get. Regardless everyone will have to play around with it, and some have to learn the hard way before the "get it." 

Also have you noticed that many people almost "attack" other people, and their tanks, but then they never put pictures up of their tank? That is pretty funny.




Good luck everyone.


----------



## Gatekeeper

You keep stating, "I don't think I need to explain", yet, MY experience, with countless others dictates otherwise. 

Its pretty easy _to get _... maybe I am just not "getting it".

The "attack" things have been moderated... I am just trying to get to the core of your thinking. Since you seem to have this hobby down and all...


----------



## Guest

gmccreedy said:


> You keep stating, "I don't think I need to explain", yet, MY experience, with countless others dictates otherwise.
> 
> Its pretty easy _to get _... maybe I am just not "getting it".
> 
> The "attack" things have been moderated... I am just trying to get to the core of your thinking. Since you seem to have this hobby down and all...


I never said I had this hobby "down and all." but I do think it is fair to say I am having success with my tanks. I will say that when you start a tank with co2 SUPER high (40-50 ppms) that mixed with high lights speeds everything up - and for many they do not have high enough plant mass and they actually have more problems. (especially if they are using Aquasoil - when they use the drop kits to test water stats they have to way to measure the ferts in the soil so the reading isn't correct.) But there are many other people who have high co2, where the co2 is being dissolved very well and still get bba. (myself included in the past) But if you read around - you will see many people that say the same thing.

Again to each his own - each of us has to find what works for us.


----------



## Gatekeeper

I will finally agree with something you said...



> Again to each his own - each of us has to find what works for us.


However... lets get back some serious basics. Or should I call Tom Barr and have him drive it home?

Light is the driving force! More light, More CO2, More Ferts. You blanket out a statement like "you have too much CO2", you better come back with more than "well it worked for me". Tell that to a guy running 400 watt metal halides.


----------



## ColeMan

rick4him said:


> I never said I had this hobby "down and all." but I do think it is fair to say I am having success with my tanks. I will say that when you start a tank with co2 SUPER high (40-50 ppms) that mixed with high lights speeds everything up - and for many they do not have high enough plant mass and they actually have more problems. (especially if they are using Aquasoil - when they use the drop kits to test water stats they have to way to measure the ferts in the soil so the reading isn't correct.) But there are many other people who have high co2, where the co2 is being dissolved very well and still get bba. (myself included in the past) But if you read around - you will see many people that say the same thing.
> 
> Again to each his own - each of us has to find what works for us.


Please, please explain further...I'm asking for a simple reason: I'm a CO2 advocate - I like more of it all the time. 

I tell people that if they run everything else in their tank lean, the one thing to definitely not run lean is CO2....I have yet to experience any problems - minor or otherwise - from super-CO2 enrichment. From the day I started cycling my tank I ran my CO2 high (over 5 bps), and dropped my pH to near 5.5 - I had no algae (save for some GSA induced from low PO4 levels), and my plants loved it. I added a few fish (3 corydoras, 1 BN pleco) and 30 amano shrimp; my CO2 is controlled via an aquacontroller, although I now keep my pH around 6.0 - I have yet to see any issues with livestock. I had some clado introduced into the tank from some moss, and guess what got it under control? That's right - upping the CO2 levels. 

You can't duck and hide, rick, it doesn't do much for your credibility - it's frustrating that you keep replying to this topic but refuse to answer my question. If you don't know the answer, just say so; if you don't want to elaborate in public, simply PM me. I think we, the people, rick, deserve some answers. Please tell us about the "imbalances" caused by dosing CO2 with a heavy-hand...


----------



## MedRed

I had a recent experience in my Mini-M where my co2 ran out while I was away for a week. I came back and there was no hint of BBA. I got my co2 up and running again and all was very stable. 

I had just switched from a zoo med to a eheim 2232. I looked in the tank about 7 days after i'd been back home and i had BBA taking ahold in a lot of places. I noticed that my drop checker was green leaning towards blue instead of leaning towards yellow like before I'd added the new higher flow filter. I hadn't noticed that my new spray bar was blasting at the surface and degassing a lot of co2. The entire flow of the tank was a lot higher than using the zoo med. 

I cranked my Co2 to match the levels I had before the new filter and double dosed excel. All of the BBA was dead within 4 days. I've not seen a hint of BBA again. 

It seems that the BBA may have taken a non visual hold when my tank ran out, but it thrived under the lower co2 saturation levels created by my new filter degassing the co2.


----------



## mrkookm

I really can't believe you guys are getting worked up over a silly statement from and individual who lacks experience. Have you ever seen some of the questions he asks in his posts doesn't it make you wonder? 

There is no reason why you guys should be going back and forth with this. You all know the deal with BBA and what brings it about, so if anyone thinks otherwise or refuses to come to grips with the facts, then wish them good luck and move on.


----------



## @[email protected]

i fought BBA once and won (well it still occasionally turns up in my java moss, but its rare and i just need to cut off a cm long peice of moss to get rid of it). me and my dad dumped CO2 in the tank, and dosed (and overdosed) excel. we also put in a bunch of other nutrients. it didnt make the plants out-compete the BBA, just made them grow very fast. the BBA grew too, but it grew longer and didnt spread as fast as the plants grew, so we just kept cutting out infected parts until there were none.


----------



## roybot73

gmccreedy said:


> However... lets get back some serious basics. Or should I call Tom Barr and have him drive it home?


Oh how I would _LOVE_ to see this:thumbsup: 



mrkookm said:


> I really can't believe you guys are getting worked up over a silly statement from and individual who lacks experience. Have you ever seen some of the questions he asks in his posts doesn't it make you wonder?


Agreed.


----------



## @[email protected]

actually inviting tom would be pretty good. he IS the athority on imbalance. and i really would like to know what he thinks causes BBA outbreaks.


----------



## SeaSerpant

Refering to page twenty nine of your thread. I love the look of your aquarium. If i didn't know better i'd say you don't need any more plants in there


----------



## eyebeatbadgers

MedRed said:


> I had a recent experience in my Mini-M where my co2 ran out while I was away for a week. I came back and there was no hint of BBA. I got my co2 up and running again and all was very stable.
> 
> I had just switched from a zoo med to a eheim 2232. I looked in the tank about 7 days after i'd been back home and i had BBA taking ahold in a lot of places.


That's a good observation you made. BBA does not pop up immediately after a CO2 shortage. It does take time, and that is what leads people to believe that there are other causes of BBA. When you ran the tank low on carbon, it probably took about a week from the day it ran out for the BBA to become numerous enough to see. I'm fighting BBA right now in my tank, because I turned the filter (and thus the Co2 supply) off, and forgot to turn it back on until the next day.:iamwithst I checked on the tank very carefully for the next two or three days, and nothing showed, so I though I was okay. About 5 days after the incident, I notice the BBA. I probably could have seen it on day four, but I didn't check as closely that day. Long story...long, you must be aware of the minute changes that you make to truly determine the causes of different algae.


----------



## macclellan

Wow, Larecy. Sorry your thread got crapped on for a bajillion posts. I thought this thread was to discuss your tank, not debunk claims about co2 (mrkookm said it best above). I look forward to new pics once you get things replanted. Hopefully that will get things back on track. cheers, joel


----------



## CmLaracy

Ok, so I'm ordering all the plants for the next round. I ran into one dilemma. HC or Glosso for the foreground? Right now I'm leaning towards HC cause my 35 Rummies seem to love the taste of Glosso. What do you guys think?


----------



## roybot73

CmLaracy said:


> Ok, so I'm ordering all the plants for the next round. I ran into one dilemma. HC or Glosso for the foreground? Right now I'm leaning towards HC cause my 35 Rummies seem to love the taste of Glosso. What do you guys think?


Either one would be nice, or perhaps a mixture?


----------



## CmLaracy

roybot73 said:


> Either one would be nice, or perhaps a mixture?


do explain? :help:


----------



## @[email protected]

i like the idea of both.
i think you could try HC in front of glosso, covering an area of 1-3" from the glass and glosso the rest of the foreground. that way you have even more slope. plus if one doesnt work out, the other one can spread in quickly to take its place. just put in some kind of divider so the glosso doesnt conquer the HC with root runners.


----------



## CmLaracy

I can't do a divider, but if they merge it'll kinda look nice and natural. I'll think about it.

To do Glosso I'm going to have to feed my rummies like 3 times a day lol.


----------



## @[email protected]

it will. but it will take a bunch of trimming to keep the glosso from completely overgrowing the HC. or maybe when it grows too much you could skip a feeding and your tetras will take care of it, lol.

amano actually mixes glosso often; but usually with hairgrass.


----------



## nate_mcnasty

what about UG ?


----------



## rountreesj

he hey...so you took my advice after all and decided to replant...if you need/want some rotundifolia and colorata just hit me up...I'm tearing down the 55, so if your interrested, i'll send you some dirt cheap... its gotta go soon...


----------



## nate_mcnasty

you need some needle leaf? or clover or some aniba tell me


----------



## CmLaracy

Thanks everyone. nate, as far as plants, I'm all good, thanks though!


----------



## CmLaracy

well I just ordered all the plants, spent more than I would have liked  

I went for the Glosso/HC combo per everyone's requests. I'm going to have the Glosso up by the rocks, and the HC closer to the front panel of glass. I want to have the Glosso actually "crawl" up onto the rocks, and to have the HC create a nice smooth and flat meeting with the glass. Should look cool.


----------



## rountreesj

when the glosso starts to grow, it will grow vertical for a little while...once you see the runners, cut the vertical shoots off completely, then the glosso will grow along the gravel. also...what kind of rocks...I need a pic...


----------



## CL

I cant wait to see pt. 3 of this tank


----------



## CmLaracy

rountreesj said:


> when the glosso starts to grow, it will grow vertical for a little while...once you see the runners, cut the vertical shoots off completely, then the glosso will grow along the gravel. also...what kind of rocks...I need a pic...


Same rocks as the second scape. Yamaya stones.



clwatkins10 said:


> I cant wait to see pt. 3 of this tank


I can't wait either... this time I did it right with the plants. I ordered all of them at the same time, and I ordered a lot of them so I can have something sucking up all the nutrients even in the beginning.


----------



## rountreesj

Wow! I just read over the past 5 pages and people were off on tangents in every direction...

So you got new plants...and kept the same driftwood, rocks, soil, etc?

I was thinking ...you changed the substrate type from last time didn't you...that could change your chemistry right?

I've said it once, and I'll say it again...the lower you nutrients INITIALLY, the less algae...after the plants get started, then add ferts...I've seen too many tanks explode in algae just because they get trigger happy with the ferts.

I hope your next try is better...


----------



## CmLaracy

rountreesj said:


> I've said it once, and I'll say it again...the lower you nutrients INITIALLY, the less algae...after the plants get started, then add ferts...I've seen too many tanks explode in algae just because they get trigger happy with the ferts.
> 
> I hope your next try is better...


I couldn't agree with this more. You put it perfectly. This is what I had planned for this time around. Very lean and clean in the beginning, just like the first scape. :thumbsup:


----------



## deleted_user_16

hey Cm, what do you do with your AS? do you reuse by drying it to start over or do you buy new?


----------



## CmLaracy

fishman9809 said:


> hey Cm, what do you do with your AS? do you reuse by drying it to start over or do you buy new?


I was given new AS 1 from Jeff because the AS II I had was defective, it broke down if it was moved or disturbed at all. I still have a little bit of it left in a container in my back yard. I may use it for immersed setups in the future. I may be getting more HC and Glosso than I need from the order I just placed, I'm not sure, but if I do, I'll use what little intact AS II I left left to grow the stuff immersed. :thumbsup:


----------



## jaidexl

Cm, got any tidbits of info on brown diatoms that you can share with me. I'm at me freakin' wits end with it at this point, and I'm tired of all the "buy some otos" threads. 

I've read somewhere it can be an issue with the NO3/PO4 ratio (too low/high), so I stopped dosing PO4 and upped NO3 at one point. The very next day it seemed to have a positive effect, but not entirely. By the time I was seeing some deficiencies in tonina and alternathera, plus green spot, I decided to go back to full blown EI and I'm now dealing with full blown diatoms again. I'm ready to hold my head down in the tank for my last breath in this cruel world. 5 months I've been dealing with this now and my huge java fern is now a pathetic fraction of what it was (you just can't clean those dented leaves well enough before they start to die).

Every forum thread I can find says "get otos" (not a good solution), "it's normal in a new setup" (doesn't apply), "it's excess silicates in tap" (doesn't apply [RO] none of the other tanks have it even the sand bottom tank), "low light" (no chance), yada yada yada. I'm breaking down and getting four olive nerites, but I hate to rely on critters for help. I don't even think they'll last long in a tank where even tough shelled MTS sizzle away. :icon_roll


----------



## CmLaracy

jaidexl said:


> Cm, got any tidbits of info on brown diatoms that you can share with me. I'm at me freakin' wits end with it at this point, and I'm tired of all the "buy some otos" threads.
> 
> I've read somewhere it can be an issue with the NO3/PO4 ratio (too low/high), so I stopped dosing PO4 and upped NO3 at one point. The very next day it seemed to have a positive effect, but not entirely. By the time I was seeing some deficiencies in tonina and alternathera, plus green spot, I decided to go back to full blown EI and I'm now dealing with full blown diatoms again. I'm ready to hold my head down in the tank for my last breath in this cruel world. 5 months I've been dealing with this now and my huge java fern is now a pathetic fraction of what it was (you just can't clean those dented leaves well enough before they start to die).
> 
> Every forum thread I can find says "get otos" (not a good solution), "it's normal in a new setup" (doesn't apply), "it's excess silicates in tap" (doesn't apply [RO] none of the other tanks have it even the sand bottom tank), "low light" (no chance), yada yada yada. I'm breaking down and getting four olive nerites, but I hate to rely on critters for help. I don't even think they'll last long in a tank where even tough shelled MTS sizzle away. :icon_roll


I can't tell you how much better this makes me feel in a sick and twisted way :eek5: , I thought I was THE ONLY ONE who has ever run into this problem. Otto's, no go. Dosing, no go. New set-up, it wasn't. Ammonia, there wasn't any. Silicates, none in my water. I THOUGHT I WAS GOING CRAZY.

But I do feel bad at the same time, because I know how unbelievably frustrating it was. I was ready to just quit the hobby all together. I can say, blackouts will not do anything. I can also say that going back to full EI was a big mistake. I can say that you should stop dosing. I can also say that anything (plants) you can't clean up, throw away. Get every bit of that brown evil stuff you can out of the tank, stop dosing COMPLETELY, and throw in 200+ stems of the fastest growing thing you can find. Kill it by cutting off it's lifeblood, outcompete it with the fastest growing stem or weed you can find. This is the only time I'd ever recommend putting something like duckweed in a tank. Starve the stuff. Try not to over do it with WC's. 

I wish I had known all this back when I was dealing with it. There's not one Diatom thread that recommends these things, everyone just says get otto's. This stuff gets so thick an Alligator wouldn't eat it, let alone a handful of little otto's. My otto's didn't even touch it, let alone try to eat it. Even if they did like the taste, it'd take a good army of 300 of em.

Don't cut your lights too much, that doesn't affect the stuff. Your goal right now is to find the fastest growing thing ever, and give it as much light as you can without it benefiting the diatoms. Know what I'm sayin'?

HTH


----------



## jaidexl

Yeah, I know what you're sayin. No dosing sounds scary :icon_sad: :icon_sad: :icon_sad: 

I put in some ludwigia repens and will swap the tonina with stargrass as soon as it dies (I know it will now :icon_cry: ) Maybe I'll throw in some crazy floaters like hornwort or some wisteria. 

I just tested my PO4 and it's only at 2-4ppm with the full on EI dosing, I expected it to be higher. NO3 is around 10ppm, so I added an extra 1/4tspn KNO3 to see if I can recreate what I did that one time. If it works I'll see if I can get green spot to out-compete diatoms :hihi: Good-bye tonina.

I'll give these nerites a go against my better judgment, people say they are awesome and the algae will be gone forever, yeah I've heard that one before. Anyway, if none of that does the trick then I guess I'll have to bite the bullet and take your no dosing/low light advice. :icon_eek:


----------



## jaidexl

Oh yeah, I also read a bit about peroxide treatment but no follow ups or reports of success against BDs. You didn't try that by chance, did you?


----------



## CmLaracy

jaidexl said:


> Yeah, I know what you're sayin. No dosing sounds scary :icon_sad: :icon_sad: :icon_sad:
> 
> I put in some ludwigia repens and will swap the tonina with stargrass as soon as it dies (I know it will now :icon_cry: ) Maybe I'll throw in some crazy floaters like hornwort or some wisteria.
> 
> I just tested my PO4 and it's only at 2-4ppm with the full on EI dosing, I expected it to be higher. NO3 is around 10ppm, so I added an extra 1/4tspn KNO3 to see if I can recreate what I did that one time. If it works I'll see if I can get green spot to out-compete diatoms :hihi: Good-bye tonina.
> 
> I'll give these nerites a go against my better judgment, people say they are awesome and the algae will be gone forever, yeah I've heard that one before. Anyway, if none of that does the trick then I guess I'll have to bite the bullet and take your no dosing advice. :icon_eek:


If you ask me, your PO4 is pretty high....

Let me know how the Nerites work, sounds interesting. 

Good luck man, I feel you completely. Freackin' diatoms....


----------



## jaidexl

Yeah, they are high IMO, but I'm trying hard to believe what Tom says about the difference between 1ppm and 4ppm being negligible when it comes to assisting algae. I'm more into the idea that it's a bad ratio that's causing it, if anything dosing related at all. I think at this point maybe, it's no longer an issue of what the actual culprit is/was, but the fact that they're here and aren't going anywhere since there's an abundance of nutrients going around. I hope I'm wrong because I really don't want to starve the tank if I don't have to.


----------



## Gatekeeper

hmmm... you guys are eally struggling with diatoms that bad??? How about pulling the plants affected and bagging them for a day or two. (kind of mock up black out). 

Suck up those diatoms!! wipe em off the big leaf plants and do a huge WC.


----------



## jaidexl

The problem in my tank is that it's all over rocks, the driftwood, glass, everywhere. It seems to like the highly lit wood the best. I would have to break the whole tank down to remove it all. I've been removing anubias and java fern leaves as they get overly infected or damaged form being covered, but the only thing it seems to be killing is my java fern. :icon_roll 

Sorry to rob some of your thread here Cm, but I want to show a before after of my java in the last 6 months.

5 or 6 months ago 









Today, also notice the rocks and the gold on the wood (overall gold tone is camera setting +DTs)


----------



## lauraleellbp

Don't you guys both have lots of rocks in your scapes?

It's all just based on correlations on my end, but every tank I've personally ever seen with a serious long-term DA problem had 1) sand 2) lots of rocks/unwashed gravel 3) serious nutrient imbalance (as in turtles or serious negligence, I know that's not the case with either of you guys' tanks) or 4) a source of ambient lighting from a nearby lamp or window.

CmL- you said you don't have silicates in your water, are you sure of that b/c you tested?


----------



## jaidexl

Well, I do have ambient window light. And I remember back when the tank was looking sharp, I was really adamant about keeping the blinds shut in the beginning of the day (which Tracey hates). You might be onto something there, Laura. It's enough that the plants "awaken", or open and turn to the window. If plants can see it and use it hen it's enough for algae too, I guess. 

I was just think the other day that it can't be good that my tank is waking up way before my CO2 and lights start running. Maybe I'll see if I can get those curtains shut.

Lets jump this conversation over to my journal so we don't mess up CMs thread too much.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/t...45453-flooded-forest-65gl-journal-56k-16.html


----------



## lauraleellbp

The only DA I had in my 90gal was on the side that is 1) over regular gravel and 2) only on the side facing the window.

The only time I get DA in my 46gal (currently filled with gravel) is when I leave the blinds up on the french doors in the living room. 

I never get DA in tanks that aren't close to ambient light sources.


----------



## CmLaracy

Good point Laura, I think my tank was also affected by ambient light when I had the DA. I make sure now to keep all ambient light out of the room.


----------



## rountreesj

I think ambient light is the case for all alfae on my tanks...I have(had) 2 tanks, a 55 and a 20high and the one closest to the window had one algae problem after another... the one farther from the window was better, but I did notice when I neglegted the h2o changes, the glass got nice and green...

I do know that these steps pretty much help ensure no algae(or at least very minimal):
high and consistant co2 from the get go
low nutrients at first
consistent light at 4-8 hours
weekly water changes
high circulation

if any of these variables are off, algae will apear, and once it does, we all know it doesn't like to leave...


----------



## CmLaracy

the plants got stuck in customs, they should have been here AT LEAST 4 days ago... so they might arrive dead, in which case they'll send me another fresh batch. I chose a live arrival guarantee when buying, I'm very glad that I did.


----------



## Gatekeeper

Why do you keep ordering plants from Overseas? Why not just put up a request here (and over on NJAGC)?


----------



## Jens

gmccreedy said:


> Why do you keep ordering plants from Overseas? Why not just put up a request here (and over on NJAGC)?


'cause he is a man with a plan.  Everything timed to the dot. 

Chris, I should have well over 100+ stems from each rotala you were looking for in 1-2 weeks for you.


----------



## epicfish

Jens said:


> 'cause he is a man with a plan.  Everything timed to the dot.
> 
> Chris, I should have well over 100+ stems from each rotala you were looking for in 1-2 weeks for you.


Timed to the dot...plus 4 days.



CmLaracy said:


> the plants got stuck in customs, *they should have been here AT LEAST 4 days ago*... so they might arrive dead, in which case they'll send me another fresh batch. I chose a live arrival guarantee when buying, I'm very glad that I did.


----------



## CmLaracy

gmccreedy said:


> Why do you keep ordering plants from Overseas? Why not just put up a request here (and over on NJAGC)?


Like Jens put it, I need it all to be here at the same time. I'm definitely a man with a plan 



Jens said:


> 'cause he is a man with a plan.  Everything timed to the dot.


Thank you Jens! Someone that understands me :icon_mrgr



epicfish said:


> Timed to the dot...plus 4 days.


yeah well the government hates me and my plants, hence the delay :icon_roll


----------



## epicfish

CmLaracy said:


> yeah well the government hates me and my plants, hence the delay :icon_roll


I think you mean because your shipper was violating US law moreso than the government hating you or your plants. 

I've stopped ordering overseas unless it's a large order and I get a phytosanitary certificate and my import approved by the Dept. of Agriculture.


----------



## Gatekeeper

Speaking of overseas plant shipment, reminds of last December I had ordered some Anubias from Aquaticmagic and when they _finally _got to me they had gotten flagged in customs. The customs report on the packaging identified them as "Christmas Ornaments". Awesome... my wife even got a kick out of it.

So Chris, I think you said it somewhere, (and not o break up your timing or anything), but what plants are you getting again? Same song and dance as the last scape + some fast growers?


----------



## CmLaracy

epicfish said:


> I think you mean because your shipper was violating US law moreso than the government hating you or your plants.
> 
> I've stopped ordering overseas unless it's a large order and I get a phytosanitary certificate and my import approved by the Dept. of Agriculture.



They are breaking the law by shipping plants? Do tell



gmccreedy said:


> Speaking of overseas plant shipment, reminds of last December I had ordered some Anubias from Aquaticmagic and when they _finally _got to me they had gotten flagged in customs. The customs report on the packaging identified them as "Christmas Ornaments". Awesome... my wife even got a kick out of it.
> 
> So Chris, I think you said it somewhere, (and not o break up your timing or anything), but what plants are you getting again? Same song and dance as the last scape + some fast growers?


That's pretty much the funniest thing I've heard all day :hihi:

Pretty much the same thing, a couple of differences though. And yes, some fast growers. :thumbsup:


----------



## lauraleellbp

Go read through the thread on AquaSpot World over on APC... :icon_eek:


----------



## epicfish

CmLaracy said:


> They are breaking the law by shipping plants? Do tell


Any aquatic plant imports must be accompanied by a phytosanitary certificate, or else it's violating the law.

And if I recall correctly from a conversation with the Dept. of Agriculture, if there are more than 12 "plant units" in the shipment, a permit must be applied for and granted prior to shipment. If less than 12 "units", all you need is the phytosanitary certificate.

Why do you think all these shipments from AquaticMagic and ASW are marked "toys", "Christmas ornaments", "Aquarium electronics"? To avoid fees & inspections. It's cheaper for them to re-ship a dead package than to go through the legal route. $35 for a phytosanitary certificate would double a person's order amount in some circumstances!


----------



## @[email protected]

ugh, what a mess for you. hope the plants make it ok. 

cant wait to see plants back in that thing, hope it works out this time without all the algae.


----------



## ZooTycoonMaster

No pictures since Independence day It doesn't look *that* horrible to not post pictures


----------



## @[email protected]

yeah, CM whats up. the plants come yet?


----------



## lauraleellbp

@[email protected] said:


> yeah, CM whats up. the plants come yet?


I read in another thread somewhere that they came in mush.  CML's just been having a really rough go with this tank, I guess.


----------



## Gatekeeper

I think he is working on his breakdown. I have a few of his plants in my tank just waiting for him.

He is also preping for his SAT's so he is a bit overwhelmed I think.


----------



## CmLaracy

gmccreedy said:


> He is also preping for his SAT's so he is a bit overwhelmed I think.


Yes, and 3 AP courses :/ Worked for 11 hours straight on thursday night, got two hours of sleep and still went to school the next day 

I've really had no time for the tank, and AquaSpot cheated me out of $240 worth of plants. All of it, gone. My dad is working on sending them a very convincing letter, as they have cut off all contact and refuse to return my money, or replace the plants. He's a laywer BTW

And Laura, you are correct, I've had a rediculously hard time with this go. I'm considering tearing it down and setting up a NASTY reef around christmas (with the 75P, 250w MH). Only time will tell... it really depends on whether I get my $240 back. If I don't, I'm done with planted tanks for a while :icon_neut


----------



## resowner92

:eek5::eek5::eek5::eek5:


----------



## ZooTycoonMaster

CmLaracy said:


> He's a laywer BTW


Is *that* how you get the money to buy this stuff?

Sorry about the plants


----------



## CmLaracy

ZooTycoonMaster said:


> Is *that* how you get the money to buy this stuff?
> 
> Sorry about the plants


Hahaha no, I work, so I pay for 90% of the stuff I buy. I mentioned he was a lawyer in relation to the _convincing_ letter.

Yeah, I'm sorry too


----------



## lauraleellbp

I really hope it all gets resolved in your favor!!! :icon_sad:


----------



## CmLaracy

lauraleellbp said:


> I really hope it all gets resolved in your favor!!! :icon_sad:


thanks laura! :smile:


----------



## dr.tran

*Sigh* I know the feeling of working late and wakeing up early for school. I will have to do that next week.

Out of curiousty, what plants were they?


----------



## Gatekeeper

Chris,

I honestly think the club could pull together a nice package for you to start up the tank with.


----------



## @[email protected]

3 AP courses?
ugh!
how do you manage? im only taking one its kinda cheating since its just an advance version of the course i took last year.

well, that sucks, though i cant really say im too suprised. i hope your dad can convince them (your dads a lawyer? that must be cool if you ever get busted at a party or caught drinking or murder someone, lol).

a reef would look sick in an ADA tank. but dont think its easy. its hard to get out of that planted tank mentality that you need to place the stuff closely together and get a lot. soon they all grow into each other and you are screwed (atm thats what i have going on, somehow i need to get the tank to survive until i get a bigger on in 2 monthes). 
oh and i really reccomend absolutely fish for your corals. the prices are blown up, but the corals are the healthiest ive seen.


----------



## roybot73

Sorry to hear about your luck dude...

I hope you stick with it.


----------



## CmLaracy

gmccreedy said:


> Chris,
> 
> I honestly think the club could pull together a nice package for you to start up the tank with.


That would be so great if they could. I wouldn't mind paying for the stuff either, I just don't have much to work with until I get my $240 back, IF I get my $240 back... I know Jens has the stems I need, as well as Sergio... All we'd have to do is wait for them to trim lol. IDK about the anubias, HC, Gloss, or crypts. But hey, beggars cant be choosers 



@[email protected] said:


> 3 AP courses?
> ugh!
> how do you manage? im only taking one its kinda cheating since its just an advance version of the course i took last year.
> 
> well, that sucks, though i cant really say im too suprised. i hope your dad can convince them (your dads a lawyer? that must be cool if you ever get busted at a party or caught drinking or murder someone, lol).
> 
> a reef would look sick in an ADA tank. but dont think its easy. its hard to get out of that planted tank mentality that you need to place the stuff closely together and get a lot. soon they all grow into each other and you are screwed (atm thats what i have going on, somehow i need to get the tank to survive until i get a bigger on in 2 monthes).
> oh and i really reccomend absolutely fish for your corals. the prices are blown up, but the corals are the healthiest ive seen.


well, sometimes I don't manage. Friday I passed out 3rd period from only getting that two hours, had to go home... slept from 9 in the morning till 10 at night, my whole sleep schedule is turned upside down :icon_roll

I still have a lot to learn about reefs, but I do know that an ADA reef that size would be sick. What's giving me the most trouble is what to use as a filter. I don't want to do a sump, but I will if I have to. I wish I could use my xp3 with no bio-media... And do I need a protein skimmer in a tank that size? I also have a feeling I'd need an RO filter running on a auto-top off/auto water changer. I'd have a lot of trouble setting one of those up.



roybot73 said:


> Sorry to hear about your luck dude...
> 
> I hope you stick with it.


Thanks Robb. :thumbsup:


----------



## @[email protected]

heh, lol. must have been funny. but, it will get better soon (1st and 4th marking periods are worst, just hold out until november).

you can use the xp3 with no biomedia. i use and ehiem with no biomedia on my 6 gallon. just filled up with carbon and biochemzorb instead. you will probably need more flow, but you can always just get a smaller filter or some powerheads. you will need an overflow, and then you may as well make a sump (a 10 gallon tank would be cheap and work great). then you could add a good PC light meant for freshwater and turn it into a refugeium full of cheato. if you have a good fuge and lots of carbon, you can get by without the skimmer. 

you would need an RODI, but not directly connected to the auto-top off. ROs dont purify the first bit of water in one go. and an auto top off is all small seperate squirts. so you may as well use regular tap. what you should do is get a big bucket and do the auto-top off out of that, and just refill the bucket. you would need a float switch in your tank for the auto-top off though. and a program unit like the AC.

planted tanks are much simpler. you dont get fustrated that your bubble coral is stinging your acropora.

which crypts do you need?
ive got some green, green-with-brown, and brown wendtii. you may not want them though since i may have some kind of bacteria in my tank (cultures say some kind of bacteria but not TB, and im waiting for a biopsy to confirm it).


----------



## Momotaro

Chris, the club has every plant you need.

Quite honestly, I don't understand why you ever felt the need to order plants from Singapore. You are shipping plants across the ocean, dealing with flight delays, customs delays and local delivery delays when you can tap folks in the club, here on the forum, or buy from one of the reputable plant sellers here in the US. Knowing and being warned of past problems with the seller in particular has me scratching my head as well! :icon_wink

Every single plant you mention as an IDK is in the possession of club members. In fact, in a small way, a comment like that belittles the club. We still like you ( :icon_wink), but give the gang credit. NJAGC has some of the most accomplished hobbyists in the country, Chris.

Either way, hope you get some resolution to your problem.


----------



## CmLaracy

@[email protected] said:


> heh, lol. must have been funny. but, it will get better soon (1st and 4th marking periods are worst, just hold out until november).
> 
> you can use the xp3 with no biomedia. i use and ehiem with no biomedia on my 6 gallon. just filled up with carbon and biochemzorb instead. you will probably need more flow, but you can always just get a smaller filter or some powerheads. you will need an overflow, and then you may as well make a sump (a 10 gallon tank would be cheap and work great). then you could add a good PC light meant for freshwater and turn it into a refugeium full of cheato. if you have a good fuge and lots of carbon, you can get by without the skimmer.
> 
> you would need an RODI, but not directly connected to the auto-top off. ROs dont purify the first bit of water in one go. and an auto top off is all small seperate squirts. so you may as well use regular tap. what you should do is get a big bucket and do the auto-top off out of that, and just refill the bucket. you would need a float switch in your tank for the auto-top off though. and a program unit like the AC.
> 
> planted tanks are much simpler. you dont get fustrated that your bubble coral is stinging your acropora.
> 
> which crypts do you need?
> ive got some green, green-with-brown, and brown wendtii. you may not want them though since i may have some kind of bacteria in my tank (cultures say some kind of bacteria but not TB, and im waiting for a biopsy to confirm it).


How would I work an overflow into my tank? Don't you need to drill a hole in the bottom? And why do I need one? Sumps sound very intimidating :icon_redf 

For flow I could get two Koralia's. What does the RODI filter get used for if not for top offs? An AC is out of the question, way too expensive.

Thanks, I'll get back to you on that.

Oh, and a with a 250w MH, I could easily use a 20000K bulb correct? I was thinking about a 14000K pheonix, everyone loves that bulb. I really would like a Giesemann megachrome 13.5K or 21K

If I went with a bulb under 14000K I'd do this mod to my Aquamedic 250w


----------



## CmLaracy

Momotaro said:


> Chris, the club has every plant you need.
> 
> Quite honestly, I don't understand why you ever felt the need to order plants from Singapore. You are shipping plants across the ocean, dealing with flight delays, customs delays and local delivery delays when you can tap folks in the club, here on the forum, or buy from one of the reputable plant sellers here in the US. Knowing and being warned of past problems with the seller in particular has me scratching my head as well! :icon_wink
> 
> Every single plant you mention as an IDK is in the possession of club members. In fact, in a small way, a comment like that belittles the club. We still like you ( :icon_wink), but give the gang credit. NJAGC has some of the most accomplished hobbyists in the country, Chris.
> 
> Either way, hope you get some resolution to your problem.


I agree, I don't know what I was thinking. I had it so in my head that I wanted to get everything at once... poor poor judgement on my behalf. I acknowledge my mistake and admit to it :icon_redf

Oh, and I know you all have the plants I mentioned, and so much more! I just didn't know if they were plants any of you were willing to part with, I didn't want to assume and put anyone on the spot . It's much easier to part with some rotala trimmings than some petite rhizomes 

I would really like to look into a package, as I'm getting pretty desperate here, I'm considering a reef!! :eek5:

Thanks Mike, I didn't mean to offend! You guys are the best roud:


----------



## Momotaro

> Oh, and I know you all have the plants I mentioned, and so much more! I just didn't know if they were plants any of you were willing to part with, I didn't want to assume and put anyone on the spot . It's much easier to part with some rotala trimmings than some petite rhizomes


Just ask us, Chris! You are a member, people will help you out and hook you up.

Geez, I gave away two bags of Anubias nana "petite" at the meeting, and some some Java fern "Red". There were bags of _Ludwigia arcuata_, and a few different _Rotala sp._. Not to mention _Cryptocorynes_ and other plants. That was a "light" swap.

Spend some time over at NJAGC forum and you'll see what is happening!


----------



## CmLaracy

Momotaro said:


> Just ask us, Chris! You are a member, people will help you out and hook you up.
> 
> Geez, I gave away two bags of Anubias nana "petite" at the meeting, and some some Java fern "Red". There were bags of _Ludwigia arcuata_, and a few different _Rotala sp._. Not to mention _Cryptocorynes_ and other plants. That was a "light" swap.
> 
> Spend some time over at NJAGC forum and you'll see what is happening!


Yeah, that's where I feel a bit awkward, asking for plants  I'll give it a shot though.


----------



## Gatekeeper

That is the whole purpose of being in a club Chris. We support all of our vices .

You would have walked out of that meeting yesterday with every plant you have had in your previous setup aside for a crypt or two. And like Mike said, it was a very very light swap indeed.

I still came home with four bags of FUN.

Put up a thread over at NJAGC and see what happens.


----------



## CmLaracy

gmccreedy said:


> That is the whole purpose of being in a club Chris. We support all of our vices .
> 
> You would have walked out of that meeting yesterday with every plant you have had in your previous setup aside for a crypt or two. And like Mike said, it was a very very light swap indeed.
> 
> I still came home with four bags of FUN.
> 
> Put up a thread over at NJAGC and see what happens.


Damn, I really wish I could have made it 

I put up a thread, I'm hoping for the best.


----------



## Gatekeeper

Yea, colorata was there, rot green, arcuata, MATTS AND MATTS of HC that no one would take... LOL. Tons of crypts... lol. Nana petite flying around.... lol.

And you missed the Pond!! It was awesome. Franks fish room was intense. Had to be over 100 fish tanks easily.

Hows that reef tank idea looking now? LMAO


----------



## CmLaracy

gmccreedy said:


> Yea, colorata was there, rot green, arcuata, MATTS AND MATTS of HC that no one would take... LOL. Tons of crypts... lol. Nana petite flying around.... lol.
> 
> And you missed the Pond!! It was awesome. Franks fish room was intense. Had to be over 100 fish tanks easily.
> 
> Hows that reef tank idea looking now? LMAO


Wow that makes me feel awful... that's all the plants I need, I hope there's some stuff left

The reef is looking better by the moment :help::help::help:


----------



## Gatekeeper

Nah... tons of plants to go around. I have a bunch for you, let me know when your ready. I have colorata too, but its in cultivation mode right now, but may have it ready for you.

That bamboo stuff you gave me, was it emersed form when you got it? Stuff has completly gone to (insert word here).


----------



## CmLaracy

gmccreedy said:


> Nah... tons of plants to go around. I have a bunch for you, let me know when your ready. I have colorata too, but its in cultivation mode right now, but may have it ready for you.
> 
> That bamboo stuff you gave me, was it emersed form when you got it? Stuff has completly gone to (insert word here).


Ok, thanks. I'm going to try and coordinate to get it all around the same time, maybe next weekend? So I'll let you know when I need them.

They may have been! Know that I think about it, the leaves felt rough and dry like emmersed form leaves.


----------



## jaidexl

Bummers on the plants dude, no more Asian distributors for me, learned that the hard way. If it isn't them it's Customs.

I sure hope you get the plants worked out, cause reefs are BO-O-ORING! (IMO)

You won't _need_ an overflow. How big is the tank? Auto T/O is almost a must in a smaller topless tank (or at least vigilant manual top offs), or else some of your corals are going to be on a roller coaster of issues. You're going to need RO/DI (stress the DI, get a vertical clear DI chamber, like the airwaterice typhoon III has) to mix saltwater, unless you buy premixed SW at the LFS. Do yourself a favor and get your reef advice from nano-reef or reefcentral, because you'll get advice going in eight different directions on this site.


----------



## @[email protected]

CmLaracy said:


> How would I work an overflow into my tank? Don't you need to drill a hole in the bottom? And why do I need one? Sumps sound very intimidating :icon_redf
> 
> For flow I could get two Koralia's. What does the RODI filter get used for if not for top offs? An AC is out of the question, way too expensive.
> 
> Thanks, I'll get back to you on that.
> 
> Oh, and a with a 250w MH, I could easily use a 20000K bulb correct? I was thinking about a 14000K pheonix, everyone loves that bulb. I really would like a Giesemann megachrome 13.5K or 21K
> 
> If I went with a bulb under 14000K I'd do this mod to my Aquamedic 250w


you dont HAVE to have one, but it get rid of surface skum and it also hides pipes. and no drilling needed. you just need to buy one of those small long trays from staples and cut off one of the thin sides, so that is where the intake of the filter goes in. then just some slits in the top and you are done.

and you dont need a sump, but if you dont have a fuge, you need a skimmer. skimmers cost more then cheato algae, but do some stuff it wont. your choice really.

dont ask me about halides. im a PC guy (will change in a few monthes, but for now...). i have SPS LPS, and soft corals under 71 watts of PC light, and they are growing like mad (and eating/stinging each other).



why do you need it all at once?
you need to get the stems within a week of each other, and slow growers and carpet can wait for a month. 
just get it within 2 weeks and your good (algae-wise).


----------



## Betowess

I'll take a bag of HC and pay shipping too! (just kidding). Sorry to hear on the Aquaspot order. It's happened to too many of us - spendy mush on arrival. I think you father's letter is an exercise in catharsis, but the money is gone, unfortunately. Happened to me once too - misery loves company.


----------



## @[email protected]

wow, gmccreedy, you are a really good advertiser for the NJAGC. it makes me wanna join and get some plants. but id feel to weird going to an aquarium club, just having the ones i have is funny enough for my friends:
-wanna come over?
-nah, i gotta change the filter pads, and do a trim on my stems.

how do you explain doing tank maintenance to your friends CM?


----------



## CmLaracy

@[email protected] said:


> wow, gmccreedy, you are a really good advertiser for the NJAGC. it makes me wanna join and get some plants. but id feel to weird going to an aquarium club, just having the ones i have is funny enough for my friends:
> -wanna come over?
> -nah, i gotta change the filter pads, and do a trim on my stems.
> 
> how do you explain doing tank maintenance to your friends CM?


hahaha I do it all when I make sure no one's coming over lol. SOOO many times friends have stopped by while I'm doing maintenance and I run out of my room and pretend like I was playing video games or something :hihi: When people invite me over I just plan to finish the rest of the maintenance some other time.


----------



## @[email protected]

lol. i just do it. my friends constantly make fun of it, but i dont really care. joining an aquarium club would be too far though. but it definately helps out in science. im taking honors bio and know most of the stuff already. 
a reef tank would be harder to explain though. imagine something like this:
friend: why are you in such a bad mood
you: my sexy shrimp ate my $80 red blasto, and then my favites almost killed my xenia
friend: you think a shrimp is sexy? you perv


----------



## Gatekeeper

Yea... I hear ya marko. I had the "friends think I am nuts thing" for a while with the club. Now I just wear the tee shirt around the house, drink out of the coffee mug and tell them we are a cult.

Now me being a Mod on these forums... that is at least anothe six months of them mocking me for sure.


----------



## lauraleellbp

Eh don't sweat it- you guys are almost at the age where it will be "cool" just b/c you "don't care what anyone else thinks." :smile:


----------



## Gatekeeper

LMAO... my age... yea right. The word "cool" went out the door 15 years ago.


----------



## CL

Again, I really wish I had a local club. Marco, you should join. Youre lucky enough to have one in your state


----------



## CmLaracy

The tank now has over 250+ stems in it, all of which are doing fantastic. If I had to guess I'd say about 160 sp 'green' stems, and about 150 'colorata' stems. More plants to come next week.


----------



## @[email protected]

do we get a pictures of the rotalas?

also if you are worried about algae, floating some hornwort for the first 2 monthes really helps. in my lighting it grows beyond fast, under a MH, it will soak up any surplus nutrients very readily.


----------



## CmLaracy

@[email protected] said:


> do we get a pictures of the rotalas?
> 
> also if you are worried about algae, floating some hornwort for the first 2 monthes really helps. in my lighting it grows beyond fast, under a MH, it will soak up any surplus nutrients very readily.


I'll try and get some pics soon. No need, these stems will suck up everything real fast. Thanks though :thumbsup:


----------



## @[email protected]

no prob, id hate for it to become a farm for algae again. i know how it feels to tear down a tank because of an algae takeover, set it back up, and have the same algae take over again.

what are you planning for the carpet? glosso, or hc? or something else?


----------



## Gatekeeper

Chris,

What do you need from me?? Do you want stuff today?!? Let me know! I am around all day and can pop over.


----------



## CmLaracy

gmccreedy said:


> Chris,
> 
> What do you need from me?? Do you want stuff today?!? Let me know! I am around all day and can pop over.


Hey, I think it was some crypts (2 or 3) and cyperus helferi? Maybe some taiwan moss if you have any to spare... Today would be fine, whatever's easiest :thumbsup:


----------



## Gatekeeper

Will drop off stuff tomorrow Chris. Got sidetracked (again).

Yes, I have all of the above. some looks good, some doesn't.


----------



## CL

So any updates?


----------



## roybot73

ok. Cat's out of the bag, dude...
UPDATE TIME!!!

Or else I'll post a pic of my tank on here! :hihi:


----------



## CmLaracy

roybot73 said:


> ok. Cat's out of the bag, dude...
> UPDATE TIME!!!
> 
> Or else I'll post a pic of my tank on here! :hihi:


hahahaha! I'm just making sure everything is stable and happy this time before I update... I don't want to show a scape that I don't get to finish AGAIN.

Right now some things are growing nicely, and some things are popping up that I don't like. It could go either way this time, it's really a flip of the coin. I'm staying on an extremely strict schedule so everything settles in quickly. Everything EXACTLY the same, everyday. roud:

Look for an update anywhere between a week from now, to up to three weeks  

Oh, and this journal really could use some photos... so why not throw some picks up dude?! lolroud:


----------



## roybot73

We'll be waiting...


----------



## Hilde

Algae under control? It looked like you need flourish excel to me.


----------



## Gatekeeper

Hilde said:


> Algae under control? It looked like you need flourish excel to me.


Care to elaborate on this? Excel, although beneficial, is not the cure all for planted tanks and algae, so I am curious how this blanket statement can be made so easily without justification or support.

Perhaps we should just get rid of the whole algae section on the forums and just rename it "Go Get Excel and Stop Posting Here".


----------



## CmLaracy

Hilde said:


> Algae under control? It looked like you need flourish excel to me.





gmccreedy said:


> Care to elaborate on this? Excel, although beneficial, is not the cure all for planted tanks and algae, so I am curious how this blanket statement can be made so easily without justification or support.
> 
> Perhaps we should just get rid of the whole algae section on the forums and just rename it "Go Get Excel and Stop Posting Here".


I was actually ODing excel everyday :icon_roll


----------



## @[email protected]

excel helps plants, but for most cant be instead of CO2, which is a main cause of algae if unstable. it can kill algae, but it can kill fish and plants too. and the algae will just grow back if the root problem isnt solved.
people wouldnt be dosing N, P, K, Fe, Mg, Mn, Cl, Cu, Zn, Bn, etc. if all they needed was flourish excel to keep their tanks algae-free.
i myself have excel, and i also have staghorn algae. maybe my excel is broken and i should buy some new excel?


----------



## Gatekeeper

Ok, this is nonsense. Come out from the rock your hiding under and give us an update. Good or bad....


----------



## roybot73

gmccreedy said:


> Ok, this is nonsense. Come out from the rock your hiding under and give us an update. Good or bad....


I agree!!! What's going on here, dude?!?! Don't make me post pictures of my tanks :icon_eek:


----------



## @[email protected]

yeah, i wanna see the tank.
its ok, even if you drained it.


----------



## roybot73

Here is a photo of his tank that was posted in *MY* journal on October 13. Maybe he can show us how much progress it's made...


----------



## MedRed

gmccreedy said:


> Care to elaborate on this? Excel, although beneficial, is not the cure all for planted tanks and algae, so I am curious how this blanket statement can be made so easily without justification or support.
> 
> Perhaps we should just get rid of the whole algae section on the forums and just rename it "Go Get Excel and Stop Posting Here".


I've used excel to curtail hair algae blooms in 2 tanks (20 & 30 gallon) that are under Metal Halide lighting. I was using 30ml doses for a few days and then switching over to 10ml. within five days or so the water is crystal clear and all of the hair algae melted back. After the tank is clear i discontinue the excel.


----------



## @[email protected]

what!?
i spent monthes picking it out of riccia with tweezers, and i could have just used excel?


btw. does anybody know what happened to this guy?


----------



## deleted_user_16

could have used excel to get rid of riccia? i doubt that, i think you mean get rid of ALGAE


----------



## CmLaracy

hey guys, sorry I haven't been around. I'm gonna be out of the business for a little while, taking a break. To be honest I'm fed up. The tank is no longer up and running.


----------



## MedRed

Oh NO!


----------



## Gatekeeper

CmLaracy said:


> hey guys, sorry I haven't been around. I'm gonna be out of the business for a little while, taking a break. To be honest I'm fed up. The tank is no longer up and running.


Fed up with what?


----------



## deleted_user_16

probably the algae issues he had earlier, but you are running a planted tank, you are playing god, you have to try many times to get it right. so lets just hope he gets this back up soon


----------



## MedRed

So much energy, time, and money :-(


----------



## CL

Aww man


----------



## @[email protected]

if its too much work, but you still like tanks, you may look into doing a walstad tank.


----------



## Gatekeeper

What did you do with all the fish and stuff?


----------



## MedRed

I was just about to ask that question myself.


----------



## roybot73

Bummer. You had something really,_really_ nice going there. I was looking forward to seeing it fill out...


----------



## CmLaracy

The fish are still in there, there's water and remnant of the last scape. Sooner or later I'll tear it down completely and give it another go. Same problems as last time...


----------



## MedRed

If you've not tried it... next go around don't add the fish. I'm using Metal Halide over my 20 gallon amano. twice I've had an outbreak of hair algae when bumping up the light cycle. I started at 4 hours and moved to 6. I dumped 30mls of excel (that's a lot) into the tank daily. Within 5 days or so the hair algae was gone. I followed up with 10 mls every other day. This has worked twice. The tank is completely clear of algae.


----------



## @[email protected]

i suggest that on startup (well, after the cycle), add otos. and maybe a SAE or 2. and maybe some amano shrimp. keep a low photoperiod. and dose EI, but maybe a bit less then reccomended, and then slowly as the plants start to grow increase the fertz.


----------



## MedRed

I have to add i did not fertilize at all. Your plants will be fine for awhile without adding fertz. I had no algae eaters other than pond snail hitchhikers. It's a simple way of keeping things in check. You have to be careful not to add enough to melt your plants though.


----------



## ColeMan

Well this is no good - sorry to hear about the tank....


----------



## lauraleellbp

You could always try a low light tank...

(*ducks while he throws something at me* LOL)

But in all seriousness, if you're really busy, low light is soooo much easier to take care of, and you could always bump up the lighting again down the road...


----------



## CmLaracy

i was thinking of switching to a 70w MH and doing a low light anubias/crypt/val tank with the same hardscape. IDK

I really think my bulb is shot and it's been causing problems. I had BBA with a constant 35ppms of CO2, and Diatoms with a fully cycled tank that hadn't seen NH4 in 4 months. All this happened 2 times in a row. I did everything exactly the way I was supposed the second time around, and still, these algae's showed up despite the fact that their growth factors were missing. I'm thinking my bulb is shot.

So laura, not a bad idea, I won't throw anything at you


----------



## Gatekeeper

Not a bad idea Chris. Look at uridina's thread. Perfect slow growth, low maintenance approach.

Sorry to hear your having a tough time. Still got those Rams?


----------



## roybot73

70W hqi is very managable!


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## CL

Yeah, don't give up


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## TheCryptKeeper

sorry to hear about the problems you have been having.. just take it slow.. remember this is a hobby.. when it turns into a job.. it isn't fun anymore. make it fun again!


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## Jens

CmLaracy said:


> I really think my bulb is shot and it's been causing problems.


A little unlikely, I think. The bulb should have at least a half year left in life.

Didn't you use the regular Aquasoil for your last two scapes and Aquasoil II for your first tank?


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## @[email protected]

CmLaracy said:


> i was thinking of switching to a 70w MH and doing a low light anubias/crypt/val tank with the same hardscape. IDK
> 
> I really think my bulb is shot and it's been causing problems. I had BBA with a constant 35ppms of CO2, and Diatoms with a fully cycled tank that hadn't seen NH4 in 4 months. All this happened 2 times in a row. I did everything exactly the way I was supposed the second time around, and still, these algae's showed up despite the fact that their growth factors were missing. I'm thinking my bulb is shot.
> 
> So laura, not a bad idea, I won't throw anything at you


low light tanks can look good, too. though i preffer higher-tech. and your plant choice wouldnt be so limited. you could do swords too, and moss and java ferns of course, and lotuses. asian ambulia might be ok if you let it grow tall enough. and any floating plants would do just fine.


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## moogoo

i know how you feel CM....

I'm upgrading to a 75P from my standard 30G and i will be going low light. I had close to 5WPG on my 30G and my plants grew like crazy and things were great at first. but the algae came.. and life got busy.. and things got out of hand.

Low light is the way to go. Much easier to manage and I intend to automate dosing to keep things even easier. 

Good luck with your next setup bro.


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## @[email protected]

dont think low-light is algae free. you should have seen the cyano i had in my eclipse 3. it was scary. and after i removed every last bit, it came back in a week.


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## moogoo

not saying low light is algae free, but chances of nutrients getting out of control are less than with high light i think. It's much more manageable when the plants are growing like weeds.


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## CmLaracy

Jens, the bulb came with blatant signs of being used beforehand. It had the classic MH burn dots/spots. Got it from AFA


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## @[email protected]

well, then try getting a new bulb, except maybe not from AFA this time.
expired bulbs are easy enough to fix.


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## Momotaro

> Jens, the bulb came with blatant signs of being used beforehand. It had the classic MH burn dots/spots. Got it from AFA


I doubt that. Been there a few times and know the guys who own and run the shop. There is no way they sent you a used bulb, Chris. I just don't believe that. 

Besides _if _the bulb had the "tell tale signs" of being used, it should have been brought to their attention immediately before use so the situation could have been rectified as opposed to becoming an accusation on a forum. 

MH is a one of, if not the most difficult manners of light to control over a planted aquarium in my opinion, and it seems you have had trouble with your MH from the get go. Sure it is the bulb?


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## Hilde

I feel like giving up but I love having live plants. I figure if after I add diy Co2 I get algae, I will start adding some potassium nitrate. If that doesn't work then I will just stick with java fern and make caves. I have java fern v needle. It looks a bit like Hygro willow.

From what hoppycalif stated about his algae I gather that light is 1 of the main causes of algae. Have been told that actinic lights, which give off blue photos, can cause algae blooms. Perhaps the bulb has a lot of blue photons in it and that coupled with nutrient imbalance is causing your algae problems. Have read a lot have corrected the imbalance of nutrients, another cause of algae, by adding potassium nitrate. Even though flourish excel isn't the complete answer to algae control, I think it helps give 1 time to get the problem under control.


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## CmLaracy

Gonna raise the light 18" off the surface (getting a new bulb just to be sure), go back to AS 2 and hope it doesn't break apart again, get slow growing plants, and let it do it's thing. I had a much better time controlling AS 2.

Same hardscape. Micro sword foreground, Val nana jungle type background, crypts on the sides, anubias nana between the rocks, nana petite tied to the wood. Needle leaf java in the same spot as last time, believe it or not it's still there and looking great after months of no light. Some mosses thrown in between. Starting up before christmas, look for the new thread soon =)


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## roybot73

Glad to hear you're going to give it another go!


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## @[email protected]

roud:
proud of you dude.
algae isnt gonna KO you, you just pop right back up and whack it in the face.


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## CmLaracy

roybot73 said:


> Glad to hear you're going to give it another go!





@[email protected] said:


> roud:
> proud of you dude.
> algae isnt gonna KO you, you just pop right back up and whack it in the face.


LOL, thanks guys :thumbsup:


Just placed an order with ADG and Charley @ Lowcaster, I'm wasting NO time

Oh and scratch the val nana in the back, I'm going with Eleocharis vivipara. I'm going to post a large WTB in the SnS any minute


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## @[email protected]

way to go chris. 

you need any plants i have, just ask (see my 20L thread for the plants). first clippings are yours. :biggrin: were gonna help you get back on your feet. algae can go **** itself.


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## Gatekeeper

welcome back.


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## Hilde

Did you ever find out what caused the ammonia to spike. Perhaps another nominal that caused the algae bloom.


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## CmLaracy

Hilde said:


> Did you ever find out what caused the ammonia to spike. Perhaps another nominal that caused the algae bloom.


never found out, and there was no ammonia spike. The tank was ammonia free for the 3 months prior while I had it running with no light. And the tank cycled two months prior to that, fully. All of this happened almost 5 months AFTER the cycle. The AS had no ammonia left in it, and my bio-filtration was fully established. Still a mystery. As well as the BBA while running over 40ppms of CO2 very consistently, go figure. :eek5:


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## Hilde

Well, I am sorry I irritated you. I am positive I saw readings where you had 0 ammonia and 10 nitrates, then the ammonia rose. 

What page is the last picture of the tank? I searched and searched for it last night and couldn't find it.


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## CmLaracy

Hilde said:


> Well, I am sorry I irritated you. I am positive I saw readings where you had 0 ammonia and 10 nitrates, then the ammonia rose.
> 
> What page is the last picture of the tank? I searched and searched for it last night and couldn't find it.


Oh I'm sorry, I'm not irritated :icon_redf I hope I didn't come off sounding abrupt. I'm simply frustrated I never figured out what happened. The second shot at this scape was way after the tank had fully cycled. I posted almost nothing at all about my second attempt as I was frustrated, you are correct though that the first attempt did experience some problems related to ammonia :thumbsup:


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## CmLaracy

*Help!*

I'm looking for some recommendations here.

I'm going to be raising the light up a lot, I dn't know how much, but I'm thinking somewhere around 18", with the photoperiod being around 6 hours.

The plants are going to consist of 

Lilaeopsis brasiliensis in the foreground
Eleocharis vivipara in the background
Needle leaf java mid ground
Anubias nana midground
Anubias nana petite tied to the branches
Taiwan moss tied to the branches
Random crypts low on the sides

Now these number for height and photo-period at the start are very rough, and I'm really unsure about them. I won't be dosing at all for at least the first 2 months, and I'm going to run my CO2 at about 1bps. The light is 150w MH if you didn't already know, and the tank is about 40g. Prior to this I've hung the light at about 10-12". I'll be using AS 2 as even though I complained about it, I find it more controllable. 

So, what are your recommendations for starting height of the light, and starting length of the photoperiod. Let me hear em! Remember, this is a low tech STYLE tank, with high tech gear I guess. I want SLOW consistent growth, algae=enemy. Thanks guys


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## MARIMOBALL

sounds like a good plan im thinking of raising my MH pendants also. my photoperiod is 5 hrs. 4pm to 9pm, but I will gradually icrease to 8 once the algae goes away. Im keeping my tank High light.


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## CmLaracy

MARIMOBALL said:


> sounds like a good plan im thinking of raising my MH pendants also. my photoperiod is 5 hrs. 4pm to 9pm, but I will gradually icrease to 8 once the algae goes away. Im keeping my tank High light.


thanks!

any other recommendations?


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## @[email protected]

i reccomend some floaters. they will serve a dual purpose: they remove nutrients by growing kinda fast, but they are very easy to remove, no shaping into bushes like with stems; and they help block out light so you can have a longer photoperiod so you have time to actually SEE your tank.

and maybe try out some Lileaopsis mauritius instead of brasillensis. it spreads and carpets faster (i know you dont want fast, but dont worry, its still lileaopsis and it will be monthes before you have a thick full carpet). the leaf shape is also a bit more appealing (they have narrower leaves). 

also, could i suggest a moss wall? they look cool. but, idk if they take a lot of maintanance. id think not since it is moss, but i cant say since i never had one.


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## CmLaracy

I'm kinda in a bad spot here, I forgot that Charley at Lowcaster would have to order my plants then send them to me, so I ordered a bunch of plants from people on the forums so I could rescape on saturday, but now my largest order of plants won't be here in time... I guess I can the plants that come in time floating while I wait for lowcaster's plants...

DARN


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## Phil Edwards

Hey man,

I can't really give any recommendations, but I can commiserate with you. I'm having horrible algae problems in my 75 w/ADA substrate. It seems that the stuff's a unpredictable as it is good at growing plants. Keep us updated, I know you'll get it figured out.

Oh, and for what it's worth. I've got 2x 250w metal halide bulbs 8 inches above a 90g tank with Flourite. There's very very little algae; it's there, but it's in hiding. I just upped the photoperiod to 7 hours from the 5 I had going for the first month. 

I'd 2nd the notion of using floaters to help mitigate some of the light and excess water column nutrients. 

Regards,
Phil


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## @[email protected]

why scape all at once? plant what you have where you want it if you have a plan. if you dont have a plan, then of course you need to see each plant and how it looks where. but you sound like you know what you want and where.


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## CmLaracy

anyone have any floaters? lol


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## resowner92

i got some duckweed  but u probably dont want that lol


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## CmLaracy

resowner92 said:


> i got some duckweed  but u probably dont want that lol


OH TEH NOES, NOT TEH DUCKWEED

lol


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## @[email protected]

ive got some hornwort, but its kinda sinky for hornwort. it doesnt fall, but the stems go down vertically instead of horizontally. if you want it you can have some, but idk if you do.

i have some duckweed too. courtesy of aquariumplants.com (wasnt too happy when i saw it). but among the duckweed was a single plant of salvinia minima. i like it and would recomend you try to get some, but i only have 1 plant ATM


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## CmLaracy

Here's a cool photo of the original scape. It's a later stage that I just realized I never posted. Just dug it up out of my hard drive and I thought it might lighten up the mood


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## CL

Wow


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## @[email protected]

it does. my initial reaction was: A PIC!
lol. 

so the new scape, are you planning to do a true low-tech setup, or more kinda mid-tech?


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## CmLaracy

I call it a low tech high tech. I'm using my somewhat high tech gear to create a low-mid tech style scape. I'll make sure it's nice


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## jaidexl

Nice shot of the old scape.

So, you're still dealing with algae issues, eh? If it makes you feel any better, I'm still knee deep in that diatom problem, only I found out it was never diatoms, it's GDA. It was pretty clear after it turned all the glass green, then sloughed off into the same brown mess I've been looking at for the last 6 months, it's all over leaves, hardware, everything. I guess I never gave it a chance to get green before and automatically thought brown = diatom. I let it die off once and it came back full strength. Good news is some new otos are cleaning leaves with no problem. I went ahead and rescaped the tank anyway, tired of waiting, of course that brought on some nice fuzz algae that's taking it's sweet time to go. :icon_roll Can't wait to set up the 110 low tech.


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## rountreesj

well chris, i will be back on here regularly come january, and you better have some inspiration for me!


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## Gatekeeper

How are we doing here Chris? Tank should be well on its way by now...

Rummy's are doing good. Let me know when you are ready for them.


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## CmLaracy

gmccreedy said:


> How are we doing here Chris? Tank should be well on its way by now...
> 
> Rummy's are doing good. Let me know when you are ready for them.


Its doing alright, still having those same problems with the brown dust and slime and such. Everything is growing, not well might I add. 

I looked over the beginning of this journal and found that all my success took place with that ugly 13000K MH bulb over the tank, and that even the very first scape's overall health started to decline when I switched to the ADA. I'm going to try and transition back tot he 13000K and see if it makes a difference. The way the tank is going right now I don't know how much longer I can keep it under control. 

BTW, I made the new journal remember? lol, it's got all the pics so people wont know what we're talking about if we post in this one, try and let this one die lol. :thumbsup:


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## Gatekeeper

My bad. LOL. *Thread Closed*


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