# Designing DIY LED lighting



## jeffkrol

controller/control dictates drivers..

For simplicity sake, and unless one uses an Apex (or 10v/analog only, there are work arounds) AND one wants a controller (it is optional but highly recommended JUST for a ramping sake..doesn't spook fish)
one w/ 5V PWM output is desired.
5V PWM dimming protocol is recommended because it "can" smoothly dim to zero, unlike 10V PWM or 10V analog
5V PWM is also natively compatible w/ home built controllers.
Which will dictate drivers

Running LED's in series and using constant current drivers is also preferred.
Choosing a drive current based on LEd's and desired (or undesired) amount of heating (which dictates heatsink/cooling)
will determine driver size

Size of said strings (each LED "adds" voltage so 10 3V LEDs in series = 30v) 
and number of strings (current adds in parallel) say 4 10 diode strings run @ 1A = (roughly) 4A
AND any voltage differential (Meanwell LDD's require 3V difference between input and effective output i.e 30V string run off one LDD-h needs, as a minimum, a 33V power supply) 
dictates power supply size.

Led "colors"/temps are determined by taste.
Numbers are determined by LED output (based on chip AND drive current)and goals..

Simplist adjustable and full spectrum is warm white/cool white combo
FULL spectrum control in its simplest form is ww/cw/r(s)/green(s)/blue(s)

Really full spectrum includes UV and IR (benefits of each in minor dispute for our uses)

Sounds more complicated than it is......


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## ChrisX

My advice.. listen to @jeffkrol; he is like plantedtank's own led lighting consultant with troves of knowledge.

However, some of the information can be difficult to comprehend at the start. You might want to read this thread I started, where Jeff and others helped answer questions I had about my project. http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/10-lighting/1164009-how-many-3w-leds-low-tech-55-a.html

My light design was simple and used the cheapest (ebay) LEDs and drivers you can find. It was designed this way because I wanted an inexpensive, high-PAR lighting system that fit within the stock light bars. This would allow me to continue using the stock hoods on my 50g tank, and would be a fully enclosed design without any light spillage. If I had to distill the decision/design process down it would have these points to consider...

1) Price- If your budget is limitless, its possible to build some very sophisticated lighting systems. Check in the DIY forum for links to some of these advanced systems. OTH, if you are on a budget, you can use a thread like mine as a guide. There are some circumstances where LEDs will save you money, especially when you consider electricity costs.

2) Form Factor- You need to decide if the system will be hanging, be built into a canopy, or be suspended over the tank. Many of the most advanced tanks use hanging lighting. The reason for this is twofold: a) It lends itself to a very clean look, especially where rimless tanks are concerned. b) It allows for very precise control of PAR level; by raising/lowering the light you control how intense the light is. You can often forgo a dimming system if the light is hanging. 

3) Do you really want LEDs? Leds require alot of design and wiring work, they are a very technical approach that is either fun or a chore depending on your persuasion. Seriously consider using fluorescent tubes as they are easier to implement, they often look better (many of the eye popping tanks use specialty tubes) and the look can easily be changed by swapping bulbs. It comes down to aesthetics and knowing what you want. If the best looking tanks (in your opinion) have LEDs, then build a led system. Also, LEDs do not heat the water like tubes, so this is another advantage of LEDS.

4) LED emitter choice (CRI rating)- There are many different devices. JeffKrol often advocates high-wattage, high CRI COBs. (These have the disadvantage of spotlighting and color is largely not adjustable.) I used 3W (cheap) low-CRI leds. When you have many smaller leds, you can change the color by varying ratios, but they tend to have lower CRI, which means they don't look as good. If you are using low CRI (< 95) leds, you will probably need to supplement with various colors/channels to fill in the gaps in the lighting spectrum. All of these lights will grow plants, getting it to look exactly how you want is the real challenge.

5) Drivers - Typical solution is to use high voltage (36-48v) power supply, that powers strips controlled by a Meanwell LDD, constant current driver. You can also get AC drivers (that are cheaper), which is what I used, however they typically do not have dimmers.

To answer your original question.. I am happy with the price of the system I built, but the cheap LEDs have low-CRI which gives the tank a bluish/greenish tint. If I had used high-CRI leds, the cost of the system would have tripled.

I began the development of adjustable RGB channels to fill in the gaps in the spectrum, but haven't had the time to finish. After all the work I put into building my LED light bars, I would have spent much less time, and about the same money if I had built a canopy and used four fluorescent tubes. Also, fluorescents would have looked better.

If you are going down the LED path, imitate a light that you think looks fantastic, down to the individual leds (brand/type).

Good luck.


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## Lingwendil

ChrisX said:


> My advice.. listen to @jeffkrol; he is like plantedtank's own led lighting consultant with troves of knowledge.


+1. I'm a convert from the reefing side of things, and thanks to jeffkrol and I brainstorming throughout various forums and threads I have learned a ton, and also been introduced to some wonderful options. Anytime you see his username get ready for an informative and quality post :icon_cool


There are a handful of recent discussions that you will see some very good discussion on using various COB type arrays with some supplemental colors or smaller COBs added. It's gotten very easy to cook up a very high quality fixture these days with the offerings from Luxeon in the FreshFocus and SunPlus series, in addition to the Bridgelux Decor series, Luminus Devices, and Citizen.


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## ChrisX

Lingwendil said:


> +1. I'm a convert from the reefing side of things, and thanks to jeffkrol and I brainstorming throughout various forums and threads I have learned a ton, and also been introduced to some wonderful options. Anytime you see his username get ready for an informative and quality post :icon_cool
> 
> 
> There are a handful of recent discussions that you will see some very good discussion on using various COB type arrays with some supplemental colors or smaller COBs added. It's gotten very easy to cook up a very high quality fixture these days with the offerings from Luxeon in the FreshFocus and SunPlus series, in addition to the Bridgelux Decor series, Luminus Devices, and Citizen.


Can you link some of the better LED builds? 

For all the talk of high quality DIY led fixtures, there are very few I've seen that look "better" than inexpensive pre-built bars. Mine is OK, I've seen some others that don't look much better but cost a good bit more. Then I've seen some very advanced builds that look almost as good as some fluorescent tanks.

The only really noteworthy LED tanks I've seen are the ADA style ones with high wattage hanging fixtures. I've also seen some really nice buildmyled.com lights. Its interesting that a "formula" has not emerged; everyone is still trying to roll their own.


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## Kampo

ChrisX said:


> Can you link some of the better LED builds?
> 
> For all the talk of high quality DIY led fixtures, there are very few I've seen that look "better" than inexpensive pre-built bars. Mine is OK, I've seen some others that don't look much better but cost a good bit more. Then I've seen some very advanced builds that look almost as good as some fluorescent tanks.
> 
> The only really noteworthy LED tanks I've seen are the ADA style ones with high wattage hanging fixtures. I've also seen some really nice buildmyled.com lights. Its interesting that a "formula" has not emerged; everyone is still trying to roll their own.


by looks are you meaning the actual design of the light or the quality of the light it puts out? its very hard to DIY something that looks better a quality commercial unit, you can get passable assethics. but even high end fixtures like a ecotech radeon leaves some to be desired on there diode choices.

also its very hard to show in photos what lighting really looks like,


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## jeffkrol

Redo of an old build..









THANKS to vincel892 

Better is a relative term..
Better physically looking than manuf..but tough though wood frames come to mind
Better control.. for all but going against "the best" and still arguable
Same w/ channel choices and diode wavelengths..
Though commercial has their upsides .. the flexibility of DIY is what is key..

well roll your own is kind of THE point now isn't it...

my old 40..
with and without cyan..
bottom one looks like most 6500k builds or a bit lower (but subtle better color will be obvious)
top one was an on the fly adjustment..w/ a color few use..










the only (personal) color match is a Fluval 2.0 BUT poor channel choices (only 2)
Radion xr15 is close but all of these are not budget..and uses green diodes..


Sadly I can only judge most w/ photos..
my only commercial fixture is a small clip light (Finnex fugeray-R) w/ 660nm red and 7000k whites it has good color (mostly thanks to the deep red) BUT still no DIY
Just sits there going on and off (power pack built in so no automation is easily done.. though it gnaws at a me at times)

Some of it is just the journey..............

JUST for comparison...









DIY nano..
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/nano-aquariums/83133-my-nano-tank-my-diy-led.html


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## jeffkrol

My 55 b4 FreshFish and BBA (no not related)

Pick out the SORRA chip.. 
About $76 of chips....$50 copper heatsinks.. $15 5 driver board (custom) and $15 n2power steal of a ps..$100 Bluefish mini to control it all..
No not cheap..
It is really hard to quantify but w/ the right chips there is a richness moreso than most "standard" lights..
Though could just be me..



























http://www.qualiteitems.com/images/40b562017.jpg

ONE last thing..Interesting comparisons ..
Note no "puck" styles but I wouldn't worry too much about that..

https://www.tropicalfishcareguides....ll-spectrum-led-lights-for-planted-aquariums/


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## ChrisX

That kessil tank doesnt look all that great. Looks like mine.

The last tank...that stand has me very worried.


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## Lingwendil

ChrisX said:


> Can you link some of the better LED builds?
> 
> For all the talk of high quality DIY led fixtures, there are very few I've seen that look "better" than inexpensive pre-built bars. Mine is OK, I've seen some others that don't look much better but cost a good bit more. Then I've seen some very advanced builds that look almost as good as some fluorescent tanks.
> 
> The only really noteworthy LED tanks I've seen are the ADA style ones with high wattage hanging fixtures. I've also seen some really nice buildmyled.com lights. Its interesting that a "formula" has not emerged; everyone is still trying to roll their own.


Aesthetically I find most commercial fixtures look cheap, clunky, or flimsy, so I'm the last person to ask on aesthetics. But, that having been said, there are plenty of heatsink housings/arrangements available that look just as finished as any commercial product (my favorite are the premium enclosures from RapidLED) if you look around. It all depends on how handy you are and the research/planning you do.



Here's the finished product of my Nano build, currently under the knife to have the Vero cool white swapped for SunPlus cool whites-





Pictures suck because of my phone camera, but it looks very crisp, just a bit warm due to all the AR Mini and crushed garnet sand...

The tank also crashed during a recent move, and I had a huge algae takeover, green water. And lost all my shrimp. It's just started to get back to normal.


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## jeffkrol

Gollum doesn't scare your fish???


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## Lingwendil

jeffkrol said:


> Gollum doesn't scare your fish???


:hihi:


I couldn't resist putting him there, everyone gets a chuckle out of him.


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## napaeozapus

The more I read up on it, the more it seems the possibilities are limited only by our imaginations. I can envision a lighting system which starts out with a sunrise effect, shifts to a high CRI view in time for breakfast, then to a high PAR grow light mode while you’re at work, then reverses once you get home. You could even set the weekends up differently so as to be able to get the most enjoyment from your aquarium.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## pathum

*What I built*

I made a really cheap DIY LED system with SMD LED strips. These SMD led strips come in lengths of about 1 meter. They come in different colors like red, blue, green, cool white, warm white and many more colors. These strips have cut marks where the PCB can be separated and rejoined by soldering to another SMD. By this way I made a single Strip comprising of colors of Red, blue and cool white. I omitted green, as plants reject green color. I will post the pics of the build over the weekend as I'm currently away from home. The build was very successful that my Monte Carlo is thriving under that light. I used a simple 12V DC supply to power up the LED strip. I have been running this for almost four months now with a daily use of 14 hours. So far no issues what so ever. Another great thing about these SMD strips are that there are RGB versions with simple controllers. So with a push of a button you can change the color of the whole strip. You get so many color combinations with that. Ofcourse in those strips you cant achieve warm white or cool white color but you can achieve a whitish blue light( probably well over 7900K) but that's not very aesthetically pleasing I think.


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## Preetam

I have build my share of LED lights. I am on a budget, so i did not fancy dimming and other bells and whistles

A few things i have learnt...

If you use the same type of LED, then you can use a common driver. if you are using LED's of different wattage then you will need different drivers, or find ways to limit current on the respective lines.

A series setup with 10 LED's is better than a parallel setup with groups of three. You will limit damaging LED in case of a thermal runaway

Driving the LED's at 50% capacity improves lifespan as the heat generated is lesser.

There is a noticeable difference in light output at lower temperatures. Having a very efficient heat-sink is not the best idea. 

The only time i have burnt LED's is when they detached from the heat sink. So ensure you have a couple of spare LED's of every type you are using. this way you can swap the burnt LED ASAP.

I added Full spectrum LED's which promoted growth. This makes the tank look pinkish, but plants grow well. This helped remove all the other different coloured LED's. So right now I am only using 6500K and 380nm-840nm full spectrum LED's


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## Lingwendil

My replies are in red



Preetam said:


> I have build my share of LED lights. I am on a budget, so i did not fancy dimming and other bells and whistles
> 
> A few things i have learnt...
> 
> If you use the same type of LED, then you can use a common driver. if you are using LED's of different wattage then you will need different drivers, or find ways to limit current on the respective lines.
> 
> it does help for simplicity, but with Mean well LDD drivers being so cheap, it's very economical to run different currents when required. The "L" series are only $3.49 each in small quantities. An easy constant current driver can also be built for less than 75¢
> Using a single resistor, and an LM317 or LM337.
> 
> A series setup with 10 LED's is better than a parallel setup with groups of three. You will limit damaging LED in case of a thermal runaway
> 
> I personally think running high current LEDs in parallel is a terrible idea, and never truly recommend it without a current mirror or individual drivers. I've seen and repaired to many poorly designed rigs, and with real drivers being so affordable, I don't see the point. Series is definitely the way to go.
> 
> Driving the LED's at 50% capacity improves lifespan as the heat generated is lesser.
> 
> well, yeah, running them "full blast" will reduce lifespan and create extra heat. My personal rule of thumb is to go for 50-70% of maximum current,
> or to go for the "rated" or "test" current so it's easier to refer to the published info in the datasheet.
> 
> There is a noticeable difference in light output at lower temperatures. Having a very efficient heat-sink is not the best idea.
> 
> A very efficient heatsink can make a design much, much better for longevity, and if big enough, won't need a fan. Less of a big deal for some builds, but very important on higher output rigs. It's important to check the datasheet of the emitters one intends to use, and to choose a heatsink that will allow the emitters to run at an acceptable temperature for your chosen drive current. If the heatsink is too small, you can get increased output due to thermal issues, which can put you dangerously close to thermal runaway. Make up for the difference in output by adding another LED to the string, increasing drive current and then dimming as needed, or use a more efficient LED, such as the Luxeon Rebel series. If you look at their datasheet you will see a much flatter output curve as temperature rises.
> 
> The only time i have burnt LED's is when they detached from the heat sink. So ensure you have a couple of spare LED's of every type you are using. this way you can swap the burnt LED ASAP.
> 
> Thats why I like screws, and hate thermal adhesive types of attachment. I've see piles of failures due to cheaper "sticker" types of pads failing. Personally I hate drilling and tapping, so I usually recommend T-slot types of heatsinks when you aren't using CPU types.
> 
> I added Full spectrum LED's which promoted growth. This makes the tank look pinkish, but plants grow well. This helped remove all the other different coloured LED's. So right now I am only using 6500K and 380nm-840nm full spectrum LED's


Full spectrum means whatever you want it to, unfortunately. Higher CRI type of emitters/arrays Are very useful for reducing overall numbers of LEDs and will therefore simplify builds. I'm very happy with many of the high-CRI based builds I've done and worked on. 



My personal best advice on builds?

Use real drivers. Meanwell LDD series are so cheap that they are a no brainer.

No parallel LEDs sharing a single driver! EVER! 

High CRI whites are a must. The difference in color is not trivial.

High quality, name brand LEDs are a must. Luxeon being my preferred brand, followed by SemiLEDs, and Cree. Several other suppliers do extremely high quality arrays as well, such as Luminus, Citizen, and Bridgelux (real bridgelux arrays, not individual emitters, as those are a different thing entirely)

Please leave the cheap "epistar" types in China. The savings just aren't worth the reduction in performance and longevity. The violets and blues in particular are known for burning out in less time than is acceptable.

Use a good heatsink. Not somewhere you want to skimp. Refer to the datasheet for acceptable and/or recommended operating temperature range.

Cluster your colors together closely with your whites, and use multiple clusters for good coverage. Works out much better than individual rows, and gives much less of that "disco ball" shimmer effect in your tank.


I build several dozen fixtures a year, and have many fixtures out in the field that have been used and abused without fail for more than six years. I've never had failures from anything other than a couple drivers, and physical damage from being dropped or splashed with water long term (the splash shield was removed by the user because he was tired of wiping salt off of it) I have had no major issues. 

I repair a lot of fixtures, and have definitely noticed a trend in which designs suck, and which ones just plain work. Having a background in electronics also gives you a different way of looking at things.


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## ChrisX

Lingwendil said:


> My replies are in red
> 
> 
> 
> Full spectrum means whatever you want it to, unfortunately. Higher CRI type of emitters/arrays Are very useful for reducing overall numbers of LEDs and will therefore simplify builds. I'm very happy with many of the high-CRI based builds I've done and worked on.
> 
> 
> 
> My personal best advice on builds?
> 
> Use real drivers. Meanwell LDD series are so cheap that they are a no brainer.
> 
> No parallel LEDs sharing a single driver! EVER!
> 
> High CRI whites are a must. The difference in color is not trivial.
> 
> High quality, name brand LEDs are a must. Luxeon being my preferred brand, followed by SemiLEDs, and Cree. Several other suppliers do extremely high quality arrays as well, such as Luminus, Citizen, and Bridgelux (real bridgelux arrays, not individual emitters, as those are a different thing entirely)
> 
> Please leave the cheap "epistar" types in China. The savings just aren't worth the reduction in performance and longevity. The violets and blues in particular are known for burning out in less time than is acceptable.
> 
> Use a good heatsink. Not somewhere you want to skimp. Refer to the datasheet for acceptable and/or recommended operating temperature range.
> 
> Cluster your colors together closely with your whites, and use multiple clusters for good coverage. Works out much better than individual rows, and gives much less of that "disco ball" shimmer effect in your tank.
> 
> 
> I build several dozen fixtures a year, and have many fixtures out in the field that have been used and abused without fail for more than six years. I've never had failures from anything other than a couple drivers, and physical damage from being dropped or splashed with water long term (the splash shield was removed by the user because he was tired of wiping salt off of it) I have had no major issues.
> 
> I repair a lot of fixtures, and have definitely noticed a trend in which designs suck, and which ones just plain work. Having a background in electronics also gives you a different way of looking at things.


As a counterpoint to some of the information provided above.

* All the lower/medium cost commercial LED lights use cheap chinese "epistar" leds, and can look quite good. When supplemented with the right colors, the overall look can be high CRI. If one doesn't use inexpensive leds, the cost of a DIY led fixture will rapidly rise above the cost of commercial offerings. At which point you need to seriously ask the question if fluorescent tubes might have been a better option.

* Cheap heat sink material, aluminum bar from Lowes, can work well. You dont need expensive heat sink material unless it will be visible. If you have to use a fan, you might as well use inexpensive aluminum stock. IOW, a cooling fan will make much larger difference than small improvements brought from a high quality, purpose built heat sink. I am using a small 3" computer fan to evacuate air from the enclosure, and the difference in cooling is amazing.

* I used adhesive (epoxy on edges) to attach my leds. After six months, one failed. It wasn't because the star came detached from my heatsink, but because the LED itself came detached from the star base. There is nothing I could have done to prevent this failure.

* The reason to use screws to attach leds is so they can be quickly swapped for experimentation or repair without drying time. However, if on a budget, screws can add to the cost, and you will have to tap the screw holes. (Its crazy when the screws cost as much as the LEDS.) My next build I will do this, but using high-temp epoxy (with CPU artic silver) works well for budget DIY. Use the epoxy liberally and make sure it is high temp (they all show temp rating on package).

*Its possible to build parallel chains of leds, but a current balancing circuit needs to be used to prevent blowing out whole chains of LEDs from thermal runaway. There is a link on the rapidleds site.

*Most people use DC power supplies coupled with meanwell drivers, but if you are really on a budget and need a high PAR light to drive a ton of LEDs, you can use AC drivers. They don't typically have control options for dimmers. I am using two high wattage AC drivers. Each AC driver can power up to 30x 3W leds, and only cost $13. Still going strong. Obviously someone building fixtures for high end clients won't use these, but they are valid for cheap DIY lighting systems.


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## jeffkrol

1)Fans are another point of failure..Freshwater doesn't need the density of sw.. thus active cooling is rarely needed in a med/high array..
2)cheap diodes will fail w/wout fans

3)DC above 48V is never recommended but being leery of even 110AC above a tank strengthens this position.

4) 30 3w (3V) LEDs can be driven for $14 and a power supply. Separates the most likely failure point (AC conversion) into 2 parts.
4a) Laptop and alike ps's can be had for $1 at a lot of surplus/rummage places..so finding a collection is not hard nor expensive.
4) Cheap Chinese ps's are easy to find for much less than one thinks. All in one or ac-dc separates is usually a wash in my mind except for the cheaper Chinese all-in-ones.
Unknown failure rates..
https://www.alliedelec.com/mean-wel...MI6ZPxk4Ct2AIVCo5pCh3yrwDTEAkYAiABEgIZ-vD_BwE
$20 runs 30 diodes @ 500mA 2 strings.. $7 difference.
Nothing "really" against AC/DC drivers BUT dim protocol is a make/break point..cost really isn't one. 
5) 5V PWM dimming is superior (smooth dim to zero) to most automated protocols and generally cheaper to implement. Few to zero AC/DC driver use it.

6)You can get high CRI w/ separate diodes though I'd bet most commercial fixtures (due to choice of diodes and limitations of channels) few in practice achieve it. Those that can are expensive and more than a DIY rig. The lack of a cyan component and deep red will make even "measured" high-ish CRI not being the same as real high-ish CRI.To some subtle to others, not so much. 
7)AFAICT.. never had a failure w/ Si based "heatsink glue" though still prefer screws..I'll let you know when one of my pucks de-laminate..
2 part epoxys are not as strong as you think.. Though never had a failure w/ those either.
8)Parallel.. why?.. 

9) One inch Al bars cool low density 9 1 per 3") 3W stars quite well (never exceeding 110F, more than tolerable). Complication comes w/ COBs and their more concentrated heating.

10) Though generally not recommended.. Constant voltage arrays w/ surplus Computer power supplies and pennies of resistors is still a viable option..

On a PERSONAL note.. 90 is no longer good enough..
http://trir-pj.com/en/technology/










Funny how we go back to tube-like RGB phosphors...
http://trir-pj.com/en/cob-specification-update-2016/

this is sort of "future tech" btw..


> Seoul Semiconductor and Toshiba Materials announced a new packaged LED " SunLike "
> 
> Seoul Semiconductor and Toshiba Materials announced a new packaged LED technology that is said to deliver a spectral power distribution more akin to sunlight than that of traditional phosphor-converted white LEDs.
> SunLike fundamentally transforms LED lighting technology by removing the blue LED light source and replacing it with a purple light LED chip.
> 
> Seoul Semiconductor is bringing the closest light to the sun to market. An ordinary LED spectrum is very different to sunlight, whereas SunLike�fs spectrum is almost the same. Objects lit by SunLike appear as they would in sunlight.
> 
> 
> TRI-R Web site
> 
> Seoul Semiconductor Co., Ltd. Web site


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## Chlorophile

Dangit read entire thread and now I'm regret buying a Kessil.
I want deep reds!


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## JusticeBeaver

Chlorophile said:


> Dangit read entire thread and now I'm regret buying a Kessil.
> I want deep reds!


If you have a soldering iron you could buy a cheap fixture and solder on the LEDs you want. Lighting is by the far the aspect of aquariums that benefits most from DIY but it also takes a lot of effort since the infrastructure isn't quite there yet for the same price as buying a prefab. I'd probably dabble more into DIY lighting if I could print some boards to make my life easier.


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## Chlorophile

JusticeBeaver said:


> Chlorophile said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dangit read entire thread and now I'm regret buying a Kessil.
> I want deep reds!
> 
> 
> 
> If you have a soldering iron you could buy a cheap fixture and solder on the LEDs you want. Lighting is by the far the aspect of aquariums that benefits most from DIY but it also takes a lot of effort since the infrastructure isn't quite there yet for the same price as buying a prefab. I'd probably dabble more into DIY lighting if I could print some boards to make my life easier.
Click to expand...

It was a Christmas gift I'd feel bad as heck if I stopped using it now haha.

I took this photo and managed to get a reflection that shows the colors of the led array in the Kessil, it does look to have two reds..


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## JusticeBeaver

Chlorophile said:


> It was a Christmas gift I'd feel bad as heck if I stopped using it now haha.
> 
> I took this photo and managed to get a reflection that shows the colors of the led array in the Kessil, it does look to have two reds..


Running reds and blues is more of a power consumption issue than anything else unless your whites don't produce well in that spectrum. The reason running pure red works well for plants is that you're producing a lot more power in that wavelength so you get better penetration in the water since red is absorbed rather fast in water.


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## jeffkrol

JusticeBeaver said:


> If you have a soldering iron you could buy a cheap fixture and solder on the LEDs you want. Lighting is by the far the aspect of aquariums that benefits most from DIY but it also takes a lot of effort since the infrastructure isn't quite there yet for the same price as buying a prefab. I'd probably dabble more into DIY lighting if I could print some boards to make my life easier.


Due to the "odd" V(f) of reds.. it's not always quite that simple...
Replacing, say whites w/ deep red diodes in a constant voltage array will "generally" burn out the reds rapidly..
Reds V(f) is 2.4V ..whites/blues 3.6-ish

the Kessil can be "supplemented" as in the method used to attach a moonlight "ringlight" to it.. 
See reefers...

https://www.nano-reef.com/forums/topic/370983-moonlight-mod-for-kessil-a150w/
https://www.superbrightleds.com/mor...MItqLn-Kit2AIVk1p-Ch2sFgW_EAkYAiABEgJwlfD_BwE

Not super bright but will add some "color"....
Suggest finding a warm white instead of red though.. can do sunset/sunrise that way..


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## JusticeBeaver

jeffkrol said:


> Due to the "odd" V(f) of reds.. it's not always quite that simple...
> Replacing, say whites w/ deep red diodes in a constant voltage array will "generally" burn out the reds rapidly..
> Reds V(f) is 2.4V ..whites/blues 3.6-ish


It's simple enough to add a resistor to the system to drop the voltage. It'd be hard to go the other way though (red to white/blue) but any decent light fixture should have resisters pre-LED anyway, which you'd need to swap out unless there is one resistor ahead of multiple LEDs (1 12v resistor ahead of 3 whites/blues in series).


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## Chlorophile

jeffkrol said:


> JusticeBeaver said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you have a soldering iron you could buy a cheap fixture and solder on the LEDs you want. Lighting is by the far the aspect of aquariums that benefits most from DIY but it also takes a lot of effort since the infrastructure isn't quite there yet for the same price as buying a prefab. I'd probably dabble more into DIY lighting if I could print some boards to make my life easier.
> 
> 
> 
> Due to the "odd" V(f) of reds.. it's not always quite that simple...
> Replacing, say whites w/ deep red diodes in a constant voltage array will "generally" burn out the reds rapidly..
> Reds V(f) is 2.4V ..whites/blues 3.6-ish
> 
> the Kessil can be "supplemented" as in the method used to attach a moonlight "ringlight" to it..
> See reefers...
> 
> https://www.nano-reef.com/forums/topic/370983-moonlight-mod-for-kessil-a150w/
Click to expand...

 oooo good good thank you!


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## jeffkrol

JusticeBeaver said:


> It's simple enough to add a resistor to the system to drop the voltage. It'd be hard to go the other way though (red to white/blue) but any decent light fixture should have resisters pre-LED anyway, which you'd need to swap out unless there is one resistor ahead of multiple LEDs (1 12v resistor ahead of 3 whites/blues in series).


Agreed, for many it would be "simple" but the resistors are tiny and SMD. Not to mention the added heat the resistor needs to dissipate (1/2W vs 1/4W )..
Most are a series of 3 or 4 (or 5) if 12/(24)V.. (oddly resistor is usually not at "the end" of the string).

most are designed for up to 14v(if 12V native) (automotive design) so it shouldn't be any harder..Besides a voltage adj power supply also works..
IF the array is designed tight, then probably not.. 
might as well just get a strip of Al and glue diodes to it...

I agree w/ you but there is simple (taking a big egg off a circuit board) and simple-ish..


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## jeffkrol

Chlorophile said:


> It was a Christmas gift I'd feel bad as heck if I stopped using it now haha.
> 
> I took this photo and managed to get a reflection that shows the colors of the led array in the Kessil, it does look to have two reds..


THANKS.. That is newer than expected.. May need to change my opinion. Those weren't there in the past..
Another problem w/ Kessil.. NEVER forward w/ info.........
and their "limited" spectrum graphs certainly don't show it..










Like to see that on older versions of the 160..suspect it is a recent addition (conspiracy theory) and not driven very hard.
A80:








a360








Kessils moved up a notch or 2.. 
look to be phosphor corrected...and to be honest.. more like low K whites...hard to say.
NOT like the 160 image at all...


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## Chlorophile

jeffkrol said:


> Chlorophile said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was a Christmas gift I'd feel bad as heck if I stopped using it now haha.
> 
> I took this photo and managed to get a reflection that shows the colors of the led array in the Kessil, it does look to have two reds..
> 
> 
> 
> THANKS.. That is newer than expected.. May need to change my opinion. Those weren't there in the past..
> Another problem w/ Kessil.. NEVER forward w/ info.........
> and their "limited" spectrum graphs certainly don't show it..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like to see that on older versions of the 160..suspect it is a recent addition (conspiracy theory) and not driven very hard.
> A80:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> a360
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kessils moved up a notch or 2..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> look to be phosphor corrected...
Click to expand...

I guess one benefit of their secrecy is they can improve the product without admitting fault or rebranding? 

From the picture I took it looks like 2 red, 2 green, 8 warm white, 8 cool white, and 4 of something kinda purply


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## Lingwendil

Replies in red, since it's easier 



ChrisX said:


> As a counterpoint to some of the information provided above.
> 
> * All the lower/medium cost commercial LED lights use cheap chinese "epistar" leds, and can look quite good. When supplemented with the right colors, the overall look can be high CRI. If one doesn't use inexpensive leds, the cost of a DIY led fixture will rapidly rise above the cost of commercial offerings. At which point you need to seriously ask the question if fluorescent tubes might have been a better option.
> 
> True, some can look great, and some can look terrible. Some even do custom mixes if you ask. For the amount of power many freshwater tanks actually need they can be an ~ok option at times. I've repaired and modified so many of them that I personally don't care for them anymore. I had a MarsAqua catch fire (internally due to power supply failure) in my three year olds' room once. Never again will I run one (stock, at least) in my house.
> 
> * Cheap heat sink material, aluminum bar from Lowes, can work well. You dont need expensive heat sink material unless it will be visible. If you have to use a fan, you might as well use inexpensive aluminum stock. IOW, a cooling fan will make much larger difference than small improvements brought from a high quality, purpose built heat sink. I am using a small 3" computer fan to evacuate air from the enclosure, and the difference in cooling is amazing.
> 
> I've done this a few times before, and it's a nice way to do things on the cheap. As long as the LEDs are running at a good temp no issues at all. Like you mention on the fan, active cooling makes a nice difference, and PC fans are dirt cheap. Especially if building it in a canopy, no reason not to try it if it'll do the job. If it works, it works. :smile:
> 
> 
> * I used adhesive (epoxy on edges) to attach my leds. After six months, one failed. It wasn't because the star came detached from my heatsink, but because the LED itself came detached from the star base. There is nothing I could have done to prevent this failure.
> 
> Murphy's law rears it's head even in the best situations! I've never had it happen, but have heard of it before.
> 
> * The reason to use screws to attach leds is so they can be quickly swapped for experimentation or repair without drying time. However, if on a budget, screws can add to the cost, and you will have to tap the screw holes. (Its crazy when the screws cost as much as the LEDS.) My next build I will do this, but using high-temp epoxy (with CPU artic silver) works well for budget DIY. Use the epoxy liberally and make sure it is high temp (they all show temp rating on package).
> 
> If using CoB type arrays the newer style solderless connectors look pretty enticing, and would probably be a nice option on a minimalist build, no glue, no screws even on some, you can attach some of them with clips. More research is required before I can say much else on them for now though.
> 
> *Its possible to build parallel chains of leds, but a current balancing circuit needs to be used to prevent blowing out whole chains of LEDs from thermal runaway. There is a link on the rapidleds site.
> 
> Current mirrors are easy enough to build, but I get blank stares when I mention them usually. Parallel would probably do just fine on some larger CoB types as long as you keep the total current withing range so it won't toast an array if you lose a string.
> 
> *Most people use DC power supplies coupled with meanwell drivers, but if you are really on a budget and need a high PAR light to drive a ton of LEDs, you can use AC drivers. They don't typically have control options for dimmers. I am using two high wattage AC drivers. Each AC driver can power up to 30x 3W leds, and only cost $13. Still going strong. Obviously someone building fixtures for high end clients won't use these, but they are valid for cheap DIY lighting systems.
> 
> A ton of guys (my clients included) still like and use AC drivers with a 0-10V analog dim control, and like them just fine. A bunch of the Apex controller guys prefer it, and use them in conjunction with Halide or T5HO setups, so dimming to zero makes no difference to them. Good option for some builds and considerations.






jeffkrol said:


> THANKS.. That is newer than expected.. May need to change my opinion. Those weren't there in the past..
> Another problem w/ Kessil.. NEVER forward w/ info.........
> and their "limited" spectrum graphs certainly don't show it..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like to see that on older versions of the 160..suspect it is a recent addition (conspiracy theory) and not driven very hard.
> A80:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> a360
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kessils moved up a notch or 2..
> look to be phosphor corrected...and to be honest.. more like low K whites...hard to say.
> NOT like the 160 image at all...


Remind me of the SunPlus CoB series, sort of a PC amber with more blue present, I think they call the smaller ones "purple" and it would make sense with all the horticultural stuff kessil likes to borrow from. May even be a PC amber with more "photo" red in the mix.


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## JusticeBeaver

jeffkrol said:


> Agreed, for many it would be "simple" but the resistors are tiny and SMD. Not to mention the added heat the resistor needs to dissipate (1/2W vs 1/4W )..
> Most are a series of 3 or 4 (or 5) if 12/(24)V.. (oddly resistor is usually not at "the end" of the string).
> 
> most are designed for up to 14v(if 12V native) (automotive design) so it shouldn't be any harder..Besides a voltage adj power supply also works..
> IF the array is designed tight, then probably not..
> might as well just get a strip of Al and glue diodes to it...
> 
> I agree w/ you but there is simple (taking a big egg off a circuit board) and simple-ish..


Yeah, it does get annoyingly complicated fast to deal with modifying things. Once I get more space and time I'll probably set up a custom board etching station so I can actually play around with multimode lighting.


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## Chlorophile

What are the three orange LEDs on the a360, and are all the others the same color? Hard to tell when it's not lit.


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## jeffkrol

Chlorophile said:


> What are the three orange LEDs on the a360, and are all the others the same color? Hard to tell when it's not lit.


Well that is THE problem.. nobody knows and Kessil isn't telling.. 

Japanese dissected some of them at one point.(unfortunately Reef ones)










Like I said, they look like very warm whites..bordering on "full spectrum" but no peak in the deep red..
Other yellows are whites..


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## Chlorophile

jeffkrol said:


> Chlorophile said:
> 
> 
> 
> What are the three orange LEDs on the a360, and are all the others the same color? Hard to tell when it's not lit.
> 
> 
> 
> Well that is THE problem.. nobody knows and Kessil isn't telling..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Japanese dissected some of them at one point.(unfortunately Reef ones)
Click to expand...

Very difficult to glitch my phone into taking these pictures but also managed to get one of it set to full warm, looks like one entire section of the array turns off, maybe the others are driven harder to compensate idk.

Got another shot of it at full cool as well. There's definitely at least 4 different types of led here.


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## Chlorophile

Chlorophile said:


> jeffkrol said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chlorophile said:
> 
> 
> 
> What are the three orange LEDs on the a360, and are all the others the same color? Hard to tell when it's not lit.
> 
> 
> 
> Well that is THE problem.. nobody knows and Kessil isn't telling..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Japanese dissected some of them at one point.(unfortunately Reef ones)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Very difficult to glitch my phone into taking these pictures but also managed to get one of it set to full warm, looks like one entire section of the array turns off, maybe the others are driven harder to compensate idk.
> 
> Got another shot of it at full cool as well. There's definitely at least 4 different types of led here.
Click to expand...

The right switching bank seems like 5 cyans and something purple.
Left side looks like 4 purples and 2 either cyan or something greenish.
The reds do appear to be driven harder on warm and less so when set to cool.
Edit: woops that was meant to be an edit not a quote of myself


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## jeffkrol

Looks to me like very cool white, warm or neutral white, green, red...

Kessil logic is supposed to keep output constant as you change "color"..

Easiest way it to keep current constant (brightness) but shift current between channels (color)..
Due to diode efficiency difference its good but imperfect..(theory)

Purple-y may just be diffraction effects..
??????

Market-speek..


> Our LEDs now emit a "Double Peak" spectrum, which improves plant color and growth by enhancing photosynthetic absorption.
> 
> A360..
> The tuna sun color ranges from a yellowish 6,000k, to a flat white color in the middle, and then to a pinkish 9,000k at the other end of the spectrum. The a360we tuna sun utilizes the "double peak" technology used in Kessil's horticulture line and produces wavelengths that mimic the sun, and provide for the increased photosynthetic absorption.


for fun-ish:
https://aquarium-digest.com/tag/kessil-review/#kessil


> A160WE Tuna Sun
> 6,000-9,000K Tunable non descript emitters
> 40 watt, 1 fan





> Kessil refuses to publish any PAR readings which while PUR is certainly a a consideration, PAR is still the standard measurement to start with. As well, since we already know their spectral quality is suspect, it is difficult for Kessil to hang their hat on PUR to make up for poor PAR readings, especially outside the direct central of their lights.
> 
> This answer from Kessil is rather alarming:
> “At this time we do not have any published information about light output. PAR is not an accurate measurement for measuring light using LEDs because it only includes visible light, and does not distinguish between usable and non-usable wavelengths. ”
> ACTUALLY PAR measure mostly inside the usable spectrum, it simply falls off toward the blue & red ends, meaning a PAR reading of a LED that is mostly blue that has everything else the same [including input wattage] is going to be lower.


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## Chlorophile

jeffkrol said:


> Looks to me like very cool white, warm or neutral white, green, red...
> 
> Kessil logic is supposed to keep output constant as you change "color"..
> 
> Easiest way it to keep current constant (brightness) but shift current between channels (color)..
> Due to diode efficiency difference its good but imperfect..(theory)
> 
> Purple-y may just be diffraction effects..
> ??????
> 
> Market-speek..
> 
> 
> 
> Our LEDs now emit a "Double Peak" spectrum, which improves plant color and growth by enhancing photosynthetic absorption.
> 
> A360..
> The tuna sun color ranges from a yellowish 6,000k, to a flat white color in the middle, and then to a pinkish 9,000k at the other end of the spectrum. The a360we tuna sun utilizes the "double peak" technology used in Kessil's horticulture line and produces wavelengths that mimic the sun, and provide for the increased photosynthetic absorption.
Click to expand...

Not sure, no matter how I photograph it there are 6 colors.
Red, green, a whitish(warm neutral idk), a cooler white, a greener white, and a purply white.
In their hort lights they use a full spectrum led that gives a purple color, I wonder if they threw 2 of those in there...
Plants seem super happy though just 3 days in, but no sign of my ludwigia turning red haha.


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## jeffkrol

color is magenta.. red/blue mixed mostly..
some "low blue" ie violet..possibly 420-ish


> This special penta-band recipe combines five different types of red and blue LED chips




















Seriously doubt they use them for fw.. but not on the best roll today.. 

Again.. Kessil isn't telling...Only "people" that couldn't reverse engineer it is us.........

Guess based on your violets my red..









You can throw any number of common phosphors in any blue led which I suspect many are. 
i do think they shifted from phosphor red to real red LEd.. Nm unknown.
Green is probably a phosphor convert as well.
Makes sense for the most part since phosphors are generally smoother..
Green led's are terribly inefficient.
dual peak will mean red/blue peaks..for the most part. Regardless of exact nm..


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## Chlorophile

jeffkrol said:


> color is magenta.. red/blue mixed mostly..
> some "low blue" ie violet..possibly 420-ish
> 
> 
> 
> This special penta-band recipe combines five different types of red and blue LED chips
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously doubt they use them for fw.. but not on the best roll today..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again.. Kessil isn't telling...Only "people" that couldn't reverse engineer it is us.........
Click to expand...

Took a picture with the light off and can subtly tell that there are 6 different chips, matches up with the color difference when lit as well.

Left most column top looks similar color green to the two greens in the last two columns until you compare it lit up and then it's totally different.


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## Chlorophile

Channel 1, stays on all the time, I'm dubbing the warm channel.
4 CW (cool white)

1 LG (lime green, not sure what this really is, just how it looks to me)

1 ? (Maybe LG, maybe a Very Cool White, maybe it's a 7th type I can't say for sure since unlit it looks identical)

8 W( white or warm white idk)
2 R(red)
2 G (green)

Channel 2 is the cool side, is off when set to full warm, consists of
5 VCW (very cool white)
1 CW

Just labeling the differences really, not sure what kind of wavelength any of that could be!


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## jeffkrol

Chlorophile said:


> Just labeling the differences really, not sure what kind of wavelength any of that could be!


Yea, that's my biggest problem.. Just not a "trust me" kind of guy...

Need a new spectrum analysis for it..
See like these, and you can pick ind. diodes/spectrum for the most part..
https://www.freshnmarine.com/blogs/news/the-new-kessil-h380-spectral-halo-ii-led-grow-light-2

any phosphor corrected will be a wee bit more "challenging"..


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## Preetam

Lingwendil said:


> My replies are in red
> 
> 
> 
> Full spectrum means whatever you want it to, unfortunately. Higher CRI type of emitters/arrays Are very useful for reducing overall numbers of LEDs and will therefore simplify builds. I'm very happy with many of the high-CRI based builds I've done and worked on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Use real drivers. Meanwell LDD series are so cheap that they are a no brainer.
> 
> 
> Use a good heatsink. Not somewhere you want to skimp. Refer to the datasheet for acceptable and/or recommended operating temperature range.


Meanwell drivers are not available where i live, international shipping gets too expensive. I was on a budget, so i have to work with what i can get locally.

On a cold day with ambient temperatures in single digits, the heat sink was cold to the touch. The light output by LED's was way less compared to a warm day. I am using CREE XML T6. It was noticeable just by looking at the brightness in the tank. I am not sure if i am the only one to observer this. I would like to hear about your views on this. Heating a heat sink to bring it to the right operating temperature seems counterproductive. I am using a proper heatsink and not aluminium sections.


----------



## jeffkrol

Preetam said:


> Meanwell drivers are not available where i live, international shipping gets too expensive. I was on a budget, so i have to work with what i can get locally.
> 
> On a cold day with ambient temperatures in single digits, the heat sink was cold to the touch. The light output by LED's was way less compared to a warm day. I am using CREE XML T6. It was noticeable just by looking at the brightness in the tank. I am not sure if i am the only one to observer this. I would like to hear about your views on this. Heating a heat sink to bring it to the right operating temperature seems counterproductive. I am using a proper heatsink and not aluminium sections.


Assuming you are referring to 1-2 degrees C not F, there is no reference to "dimming" at that temp.
Most fixtures are rated fine for 20F (-6.6C). 
Actually most would suspect an improvement of output (increased efficiency)..

so thought is the driver/power supply...



> LEDs actually perform *better* in the cold; I recall a post on a thread here not long ago reporting on an LED placed in a lab freezer chilled to -80 degrees, and the light was *notably much brighter*.


Temp negatively effecting the diodes is possible I suppose.. BUT unlikely.



> LED fixtures must be designed with junction temperature thermal management as a key component and use the correct LEDs. These products will then be robust enough to operate in most ambient temperature applications. Unlike fluorescent sources, cold temperatures do not impact the performance of LEDs.


http://lighting.cree.com/resources/faq


----------



## Nordic

I ordered some Samsung F type Gen 3 Strips yesterday. More than 17000 lumens off a single strip.
https://s3.ap-northeast-2.amazonaws...ce/2017/11/Data_Sheet_F_Series_G3_Rev.1.0.pdf


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## Lingwendil

Preetam said:


> On a cold day with ambient temperatures in single digits, the heat sink was cold to the touch. The light output by LED's was way less compared to a warm day. I am using CREE XML T6. It was noticeable just by looking at the brightness in the tank. I am not sure if i am the only one to observer this. I would like to hear about your views on this. Heating a heat sink to bring it to the right operating temperature seems counterproductive. I am using a proper heatsink and not aluminium sections.


This is rather strange. It sounds like there was a sort of thermal runaway going on or something, as that makes little sense. Could be the drivers were running hot too in higher ambient temperature?

What drivers?


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## jeffkrol

Sticking w/ bad caps in the ps/driver..


----------



## Preetam

Lingwendil said:


> This is rather strange. It sounds like there was a sort of thermal runaway going on or something, as that makes little sense. Could be the drivers were running hot too in higher ambient temperature?
> 
> What drivers?


Thanks, Drivers are un-branded, probably Chinese imports.


----------

