# Dollar Store Dirt Tank - 20g - New Fry Pics 06.07.11



## demonr6 (Mar 14, 2011)

holy crud, that was a week of growth? they looked pathetic in that first pic! nice work!


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## tuffgong (Apr 13, 2010)

Yes and Thanks! I did add some plants during the week, but several of the original plants reached the surface fairly quickly. Specifically the rotala rotundifolia, eichornia diversifolia, cabomba carolinia, and the hygro tiger.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

tuffgong said:


> Since dirt was already on my mind the $1 price was extremely appealing. Here's what it says on the bag: Organic Compost, Peat Hummus, Sand, Composted and Aged Softwood Bark Fines, and Perlite.


Organic compost will probably be caustic to fish. Potting soil usually also contains ferts that are not good for the fish. You will have to do weekly water changes with this soil.


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## tuffgong (Apr 13, 2010)

Hilde,

I am definitely keeping an eye on things to see what occurs. I perform weekly to bi-weekly WC's on my tanks anyway so that was the plan. This tank is 100% an experiment which is why I started on a very small scale. In my container pond I have not had any problems with WC issues and the dirt and fish have been in there for 2 months.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

tuffgong said:


> This tank is 100% an experiment which is why I started on a very small scale. In my container pond I have not had any problems with WC issues and the dirt and fish have been in there for 2 months.


What type of fish and how many are there in the 20 gallon?

So you used the same dirt in the pond.

Top soil is cheaper in the long run.


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## tuffgong (Apr 13, 2010)

There are 3 sunset platys in the tank. I also have platys and a black skirt tetra in the container pond.

Yeah, I did use the same dirt. I figured the degree of difficulty and potential for disaster was a lot lower if I started on a small scale.

Why do you think top soil would be cheaper? What water parameters would you anticipate the dirt causing problems with? These are the types of things I'm trying to figure out. Thanx!


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

nice job, cant wait to see it fill in.


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

Hilde said:


> Organic compost will probably be caustic to fish. Potting soil usually also contains ferts that are not good for the fish. You will have to do weekly water changes with this soil.


thats funny because alot of us use potting mixes. and i do bi-monthly waterchanges & keep discus.


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## rickztahone (Jul 20, 2009)

Hilde said:


> What type of fish and how many are there in the 20 gallon?
> 
> So you used the same dirt in the pond.
> 
> Top soil is cheaper in the long run.


Cheaper than $1?


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## tuffgong (Apr 13, 2010)

nonconductive said:


> nice job, cant wait to see it fill in.


Thanks! Your tank was definitely a reference point and an inspiration for this experiment.





rickztahone said:


> Cheaper than $1?


I was wondering the same thing.


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## demonr6 (Mar 14, 2011)

tuffgong said:


> I was wondering the same thing.


I did not want to throw in my two cents on that but I second you on that. Not much out there cheaper than a buck unless you are secretly digging up the neighbors yard and pilfering their dirt..


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Thought that the top soil cheaper for the potting soil bag looks smaller. I got top soil for aprox. $2.

I read that some whom have use Miracle grow organic potting soil have problems with nitrite spikes. Also read that nitrates is uric acid which is toxic to fish. Strangely though some root tabs for pond have uric acid for nitrates.

I started aquariums with dirt for goal is to only do water changes monthly.


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## psalm18.2 (Oct 16, 2010)

I'm watching this thread. Interested in results.


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

Hilde said:


> Thought that the top soil cheaper for the potting soil bag looks smaller. I got top soil for aprox. $2.
> 
> I read that some whom have use Miracle grow organic potting soil have problems with nitrite spikes. Also read that nitrates is uric acid which is toxic to fish. Strangely though some root tabs for pond have uric acid for nitrates.
> 
> I started aquariums with dirt for goal is to only do water changes monthly.


people have problems with dirt just like with any other method. there is no golden ticket. I had a tank fail right from the get go. never figured it out, set it back up the exact same way, exact same dirt and its been fine for over a year.

can't comment on the nitrite spikes as it hasnt happened to me, other than a tank crash due to a dead fish (i presume).


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

I have used several kinds of dirt w/o problems either. I think this is going to work well for you. If a dirt tank isnt going to work it usually lets you know right away. You might find that peralite is a PITA once you start pulling stuff up but other than that it looks great!


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## tuffgong (Apr 13, 2010)

Hilde said:


> I started aquariums with dirt for goal is to only do water changes monthly.


My goal for this tank is to grow plants well. WC's are part of my normal routine so no big deal for me.



nonconductive said:


> people have problems with dirt just like with any other method. there is no golden ticket.


This is exactly why I started this experiment. To see if there was another viable method to achieving dirt tank zen.



chad320 said:


> I have used several kinds of dirt w/o problems either. I think this is going to work well for you. If a dirt tank isnt going to work it usually lets you know right away. You might find that peralite is a PITA once you start pulling stuff up but other than that it looks great!


Thanks Chad. Your experiences are encouraging! Without having to shovel and bag it myself Dollar Store dirt was just too tempting to pass up. I have had 5 or 6 pieces of Perlite pop up to the surface, but they are easily removed with a brine shrimp net.


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## tuffgong (Apr 13, 2010)

New pics. The tank is still growing pretty fast. No problems other than the platys harassing me for food every time I come near the tank.  Going to trim in a few minutes. Several plants are at the surface.










The Watersprite has doubled in size over the last few days. I put this plant in every new tank I setup. 04.21.11









The limnophila sp. 'guinea broad-leaf' on the left and the bacopa sp "japan" on the right are both starting to take root nicely. The bacopa is already showing new growth. 04..21.11









The glosso is quickly taking root also and has put out 3 new leaves on the right side of the runner. 04.21.11









New growth on the Ludwigia repens and a nosy platy. 04.22.11









FTS. Several plants at the surface. Going to trim and replant the tops shortly after I post this. 04.22.11​


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## tuffgong (Apr 13, 2010)

This tank is coming along nicely. So far it's low maintenance and I'm loving it. I find my wife and son laying on the bed looking at the tank often. A bedroom tank is a must have for me from here on out. :icon_bigg

I added 14 corydora pygmeus that I never saw from my 55g on Monday and did a 90% WC. I should have put them in a smaller tank a long time ago b/c now I see them all the time and their schooling action is great! I have started to condition them to breed in the next month or two. 

The glosso was growing leggy, so I took it out and transplanted some crypt parva from another tank. I have to trim and replant with this tank weekly which makes me happy. I see occasional small bubbles when I poke the substrate, but I do have some MTS in there so I'm not worried.

Two weeks ago I helped a friend scale the Dollar Store dirt concept up to a 135g. We capped it with Black Diamond sand from Tractor Supply. It looks really good and was super cheap to setup. Hopefully I can get him to start a journal on here.











FTS 05.12.11









Ludwigia repens pearling?? 05.12.11









Newly transplanted Crypt parva. 05.12.11









Bacopa sp Japan is taking off, but the limnophila sp. 'guinea broad-leaf' isn't doing too hot. Not sure why...​


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

tank is looking awesome.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

tuffgong said:


> Bacopa sp Japan is taking off, but the limnophila sp. 'guinea broad-leaf' isn't doing too hot. Not sure why...
> 
> I see occasional small bubbles when I poke the substrate


Probably because it need more light. Possible to get it to adapt with the right ferts. What ferts are you dosing?

I have that too. Was told as long as it doesn't have a rotten egg smell it is okay. It is a sign that growth is occurring beneath.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

Yeah, you'll find in these tanks some plants will do fine, others not so much.
Some of the plants not only require more light but also more CO2.

The bubbles in the soil could be CO2 as well if it doesn't smell. You have a CO2 generator down there.


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## tuffgong (Apr 13, 2010)

nonconductive said:


> tank is looking awesome.


Thanks!!



Hilde said:


> Probably because it need more light. Possible to get it to adapt with the right ferts. What ferts are you dosing?
> 
> I have that too. Was told as long as it doesn't have a rotten egg smell it is okay. It is a sign that growth is occurring beneath.


I'm dosing with Rootmedic Macro and Micro liquid ferts. It's probably the light intensity like you said. It is growing well in one of my other tanks so I'm not too concerned.



mistergreen said:


> Yeah, you'll find in these tanks some plants will do fine, others not so much.
> Some of the plants not only require more light but also more CO2.
> 
> The bubbles in the soil could be CO2 as well if it doesn't smell. You have a CO2 generator down there.


No eggy smell yet, so they probably are CO2 bubbles. Either way I'll keep poking around regularly.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

Don't poke too much. You sorta want the CO2 to stay there for the plants.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

tuffgong said:


> I'm dosing with Rootmedic Macro and Micro liquid ferts.


If your nitrates are low KNO3 would help the plants to adjust. Can you find out what your nitrates are?


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## tuffgong (Apr 13, 2010)

mistergreen said:


> Don't poke too much. You sorta want the CO2 to stay there for the plants.


Will do.

The lights just came on a little while ago and noticed some cory eggs on the the undersides of the rotala rotundifolia leaves. Very happy about this new discovery. The c. pygmeus have been in there less than a week and they are already spawining! The eggs are sooo tiny.


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## night9eyes (Jan 12, 2011)

A great looking tank and a spawn! Wonderful! :icon_mrgr


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

congrats on the spawn.


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## demonr6 (Mar 14, 2011)

Nice tank, I found some of my plants are doing well in mine, some not so hot. Trial and error I guess. Keep the updates coming and let us know how the spawn are doing.


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## JamesHockey (Nov 10, 2010)

pics of the eggs??????????????????????????????????????


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## tuffgong (Apr 13, 2010)

night9eyes said:


> A great looking tank and a spawn! Wonderful! :icon_mrgr


Thanks!



nonconductive said:


> congrats on the spawn.


Thanks!



demonr6 said:


> Nice tank, I found some of my plants are doing well in mine, some not so hot. Trial and error I guess. Keep the updates coming and let us know how the spawn are doing.


It's definitely trial and error. It's fun though. This tank is quickly becoming my favorite. I'll definitely keep this thread updated.



JamesHockey said:


> pics of the eggs??????????????????????????????????????


I'll try, but they are small and all at low angles so it's hard for me to really see them. I literally stumbled on the eggs today killing a snail.


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## tuffgong (Apr 13, 2010)

So I just saw two fry swimming around the tank. They are super small and almost transparent so pics are impossible at this point. I usually separate my cory eggs/fry from the parents, but I'm going to leave them all in this tank with the adults and see how it goes.


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## Aphyosemion (Oct 15, 2004)

Wow cory fry. That is awesome. 
I was considering doing the same thing just recently and trying out a black dirt planted tank, but I was dissuaded by all of the cautions I saw. I thought maybe it would just be safer to go with Eco-Complete.
I don't know though. Now I am thinking with unfertilized soil and a not too deep substrate, maybe there isn't much to be worried about.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Aphyosemion said:


> Now I am thinking with unfertilized soil and a not too deep substrate, maybe there isn't much to be worried about.


That is what is called El Natural

I do a version of it. I put reptile coconut bark on the bottom (fingers width), dirt, and top with river sand.


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## demonr6 (Mar 14, 2011)

Out of curiosity what purpose does the coconut bark serve?


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

demonr6 said:


> Out of curiosity what purpose does the coconut bark serve?


Adds Co2 to the substrate and doesn't affect the Co2 as sphagnum moss does, which some use.


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## tuffgong (Apr 13, 2010)

This tank has quickly turned into a breeder. The spawns are pretty frequent. I see eggs on a daily basis on the glass and plants. I can count about 6-8 fry swimming around in the substrate. All of the Grindal worms have fattened up the Pygmy corys and the Otos pretty good. I haven't changed the water in about two weeks. The plants are still growing very well, as you can see in the pics. So far the Dollar Store dirt is a winner. I haven't had any problems with this tank at all. Between the Rootmedic Liquid Ferts and the nutrients in the soil, the plants just keep growing. As long as I keep the CO2 consistent I don't have any algae problems really.











FTS. Needs a trim...05.27.11









FTS again. 05.27.11









Dwarf Lily that was transplanted about a week ago. It's already showing new growth. Usually when I transplant one of these it takes forever to acclimate. 05.27.11









View from the left side of the tank. 05.27.11










5 Pygmy cory eggs on the glass. The spawns are increasing in size. I first only spotted two eggs during the intial spawn. Now I see at least 15 on the glass and 10+ on the plants. 05.27.11









FTS taken while looking down on the tank. 05.27.11​


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## tuffgong (Apr 13, 2010)

This tank is really settling in. As you can see in the FTS I still have to trim weekly. They pygmy corys continue to breed. At least 10 fry are zipping around the tank. I managed to capture a blurry shot of one below. The amount of bubbles coming from the substrate has slowed down tremendously. So I'm not worried about it going anaerobic. I did add a couple of free MTS from the LFS. I hope the assassins don't get them before they can make some clones. 

I'm really loving this tank b/c it's so easy to grow plants in and maintain, but the few dollars I have invested in it relative to other tanks really takes the cake for me. This setup definitely delivers the most bang/buck out of all my tanks. Soon I will begin slowly redoing all my other tanks to use the same Dollar Store dirt.










Pygmy Corydora fry moving fast! 06.06.11









Right side of the tank. The Dwarf Lily has reached the surface in one week. It's colored up nicely also.  06.06.11









FTS. All is well. 06.06.11​


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

wow good job man! you're getting some nice growth (not to mention eggs!).


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## tuffgong (Apr 13, 2010)

nonconductive said:


> wow good job man! you're getting some nice growth (not to mention eggs!).


Thanks alot!!









Corydora Pygmeaus Fry. Approx 2-3 weeks old. 06.07.11​


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## ReluctantHippy (Jun 23, 2011)

tuffgong said:


> Thanks alot!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Love this pic. Talk about scale 

Seems your soil is working great! (soil is what you grow in, dirt is what gets on your pants)  Any chance you still have the the bag it came in? I'm kinda curious as to what amendments if any were included. I'm really hoping my soil wasn't too hot - I like growing REALLY BIG tomatoes, I keep having to remind myself that I'm planting tiny tiny water plants and not 40' butternut squash vines and the like.

Looking great.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Congrats on obtaining a balance and spectacular colors! :thumbsup:

To improve aquascping I think some wood or nice rock with the red plant in front of it would look nice. Then tall to small plants to form angle scape from 1 side to the other.


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## sevenyearnight (May 1, 2011)

Lol, dirt might be what you get on the outside of your pants, but people do soil their pants.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

sevenyearnight said:


> Lol, dirt might be what you get on the outside of your pants, but people do soil their pants.


This reminds of those whom debate say tomato not tomatoe.


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## ReluctantHippy (Jun 23, 2011)

Hilde said:


> This reminds of those whom debate say tomato not tomatoe.


All semantics. I had a soils professor that would never let that go. Technically soil is sand, silt, and clay - the rest doesn't count. Most potting mixtures are called mixtures for this exact reason and often don't contain any of the three - Miracle Grow organic for instance. Damn floating soil!


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## yellowsno (May 15, 2011)

very very interested in this (subscribed to see further pics  )


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## yellowsno (May 15, 2011)

any updates on this tank?


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

tuffgong said:


> FTS again. 05.27.11​


What are the low plants on the left side?
Most of your plants are high. Seems you could use more low plants like those. Also some rocks or wood would be a nice addition.


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## jeff721 (Feb 4, 2011)

Any updates?

Also, what is the plant in the middle of the shot above, the nice one with the pink underside that I got a stem of from you. I need to find more of it, it's doing pretty well for me.


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## tuffgong (Apr 13, 2010)

I will try and update this tonight hopefully.

Jeff, I think you are talking about Ludwigia Repens. Glad to hear your tank is doing well.


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## jeff721 (Feb 4, 2011)

tuffgong said:


> Jeff, I think you are talking about Ludwigia Repens. Glad to hear your tank is doing well.


Yup, that's it, I went back and read through. I'll be keeping an eye on the s-n-s.


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