# Lets Talk Bucephalandra



## Ericj

So I've been getting a ton of questions about growing Bucephalandra (buce) lately due to my sales and ROAK, so I figured it would be best to get a thread for the discussion rather than doing it all in IMs.

*A quick overview:*

All Bucephalandra are rhizome plants, and should be planted either with roots into substrate without covering the rhizome, or attached to wood or rock. The roots will attach very firmly to either. 

*Naming:* There are many many different looking buce, each with their own name. Almost none of these names are scientific, but seem to refer to the location they were found, or determined by the finder. There is a ton of confusion surrounding naming, and very little standardization. Two plants with the same name could end up being completely different due to one or both being misnamed somewhere along the line. I've owned over 40 types of buce, and seen first hand the problems with the naming conventions on many many occasions.

*Lighting:* Buce seems to survive under most lighting, however seems to need at least medium light for much growth. It grows quit slowly even under high light, with no more than 1 new leaf ever week at most.

*Ferts:* Buce does like a full range of ferts in the water column. If roots are down into substrate it can take some from there, but it seems to take most from the water. I've only grown them using EI dosing.

*CO2:* Buce really likes a good source of CO2. Injected CO2 gas is ideal, but alternate sources such as excel does also work. I've grown buce in a tank using nothing but excel, but growth was significantly slower, with smaller leaves, and almost no new growing points to form new plants. 

*Splitting:* Buce can be split and propogated much like Anubias. Rhizomes can be cut, and new plants can form at any point along a rhizome. Once new plants start to generate their own roots, you can cut them from the rhizome to grow on it's own.

*Acclimating:* Buce does not like changing conditions. It will often lose a good number of leaves when being placed into a new aquarium. A tank with good levels of CO2 definitely helps prevent too much loss. 

*Emmersed:* Buce can be grown emmersed. Switching from emmersed to submersed often causes the majority of leaves to be lost as it acclimates. If the rhizome does not rot, new growth should start after a week or two of acclimation.

This is most observations from growing them myself, and from what I've read from other peoples experiences. I'm in no way an expert in aquatic plants, and just been focused on Buce for about a year now, and have my share of successes and complete failures. 

I do have to say though, I adore all Bucephalandra, and am totally addicted. Watching them (slowly) grow and fill out into larger plants is amazing and I have yet to have any type which disappointed me!! 

This thread is open to stories from anyones experiences with this plant, photos, experiments, identification help, anything really related to Buce. 

Buce Addicts wanted!


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## Seadon

Awesome thread! Are there any sp you recommend somebody new to Buce start with or are they all the same care wise?


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## Ericj

I don't think they are all the same care wise, but the differences are definitely subtle. Mini varieties seem to be more fragile when acclimating. Achilles also can completely melt on you in a new tank no matter what you do, and I only mention that one because it's the most popular large leaf type.

I think a good starting point would be one of the brownie types (brownie red, blue, green, jande, phantom, etc...although ghost is a bit more fragile it seems, and more expensive). 

Another important thing to look for is to try to get a plant which you KNOW has been grown submersed. With so may plants being sold which are imported directly from Indonesia, you never know if you're getting the emmersed form, which could lose some or all it's leaves when you submerse it, which could lead to killing it completely. In this case it's usually good to buy them from another member in a forum like these, which you can ask if it's already growing submersed before you buy!

Both aren't game breakers in terms of your success, but for a first time, they can turn into hurdles.


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## Duck5003

Great thread Eric! You know, there is a pretty awesome crypt thread floating around this place. Pics of all the different varieties. What do you think about posting good picture examples of known varieties? Try to get a running log going. There really arent any GOOD sources out there with a large variety listed with good pictures. 

One thing i've noticed with Bucephalandra, is it seems they like to flower a lot more in lower light and non-co2 conditions. Here is a pic of an old spathe on the only buce i keep in low-medium light, no co2, no ferts. Not sure what the name on it is, but it has a beautiful pink/purple hue to it. This was from a while ago, it actually has a new one that should open any day now. In my higher light tank with DIY co2, ferts, i never see any spathes but get much better growth. Anyone else experiencing this??


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## Seadon

Ericj said:


> I don't think they are all the same care wise, but the differences are definitely subtle.
> 
> I think a good starting point would be one of the brownie types (brownie red, blue, green, jande, phantom, etc...although ghost is a bit more fragile it seems, and more expensive).



Thank you. So one of the Brownie sp. with the exception of brownie ghost would be a good starting point.

Also, I was wondering, what makes this plant so special? It is a very pretty plant, but what special features does it have that make it so expensive and sought after?



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## Subtletanks91

Seadon said:


> Thank you. So one of the Brownie sp. with the exception of brownie ghost would be a good starting point.
> 
> Also, I was wondering, what makes this plant so special? It is a very pretty plant, but what special features does it have that make it so expensive and sought after?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I think it's so uncommon and expensive because it's still fairly new to the trade. It's like when a new mutation or shrimp we already keep pops up. It's uncommon and also expensive because it's new.


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## Ericj

Duck, I completely agree about the flowering. In fact I've found just reducing CO2 will cause flowering. I had 2 tanks set up, but only one with injected CO2, the other with excel, the lighting and ferts were exactly the same. The tank with CO2 had way more growth in general but now flowers, the tank with excel constantly flowered.

This is a great place for Buce pictures! I'd request that they be all tank raised photos, and nothing which is newly imported. That way we KNOW it's submersed growth, and will get a more consistent set of photos.


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## Ericj

For me, what makes the plant special is the fact you get such beautiful and varied growth from a rhizome plant. That means you can create beautiful aquariums without the constant maintenance of trimming stem plants, and the more growth you get, the more full and lush it looks without looking overgrown or taking over.

It's quite hard to get a lot of one type as well, which means it's kind of like 50-70 rare plants, rather than just one. So none of them are going to get common very quickly.


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## cape

Has anyone kept buces with low tech tank, Low light and no excel? I see Duck5003 said he kept them in a no dosing tank but not sure if that includes excel? 

If OP states that growth is noticeably slower with just excel, would that mean with no excel/CO2, growth would almost be nonexistent?


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## Seadon

Ericj said:


> For me, what makes the plant special is the fact you get such beautiful and varied growth from a rhizome plant. That means you can create beautiful aquariums without the constant maintenance of trimming stem plants, and the more growth you get, the more full and lush it looks without looking overgrown or taking over.



I'm still kind of new to planted tanks, so bear with me...are you saying rhizome plants won't get overgrown...is this because all growth comes from the rhizome, so it can't really expand past where you want it?..also I have one rhizome plant (a banana plant) how do you propagate rhizome plants? From what I understand you cut the rhizome and new growth will come from there, does this mean you cut a chunk off and you have a new plant, or do you kind of score the rhizome and wait for new growth, then split the rhizome?


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## Duck5003

cape said:


> Has anyone kept buces with low tech tank, Low light and no excel? I see Duck5003 said he kept them in a no dosing tank but not sure if that includes excel?
> 
> If OP states that growth is noticeably slower with just excel, would that mean with no excel/CO2, growth would almost be nonexistent?


The two pics below are the same plant in the low tech tank. This tank is zero ferts, zero excel, shrimp only. Its under a single zoomed t-5 6500K bulb. The first pic (same as above) was taken 1-14-14. The second two pics (2&3) were taken today (about 5 minutes ago lol). I would say the plant has doubled, and i could easily split this plant in half, and have two completely seperate plants. 



Seadon said:


> I'm still kind of new to planted tanks, so bear with me...are you saying rhizome plants won't get overgrown...is this because all growth comes from the rhizome, so it can't really expand past where you want it?..also I have one rhizome plant (a banana plant) how do you propagate rhizome plants? From what I understand you cut the rhizome and new growth will come from there, does this mean you cut a chunk off and you have a new plant, or do you kind of score the rhizome and wait for new growth, then split the rhizome?


I have no experience with banana plants, but with other species of rhizomes i've dealt with, as long as the rhizome part your cutting off has roots and a few leaves, it will form its own entire plant. Sometimes on the rhizome you'll see a plant itself just start to appear.

The rhizome itself does grow, but thats the slow part  which is the main reason they dont get overgrown. Even at max light, co2 ferts, these guys dont "take-off" so they are easy to keep managed. They also typically have a max size which at a point they just continue to get bushier and make new little plants.

On the bottom two pictures (4&5) you can see the two examples. The 4th pic has a bunch of baby plants shooting out on the bottom. The last pic (5th) used to be one plant (left center, one black rock one red), and i cut it in half. Hope this helps!


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## Duck5003

Ericj said:


> This is a great place for Buce pictures! I'd request that they be all tank raised photos, and nothing which is newly imported. That way we KNOW it's submersed growth, and will get a more consistent set of photos.


Completely agree. I'll work on trying to get some nice pics of some of my confirmed species with labels on them (anyone else, please do the same!) Eric, maybe from there we can get a running log in the OP of the best representations of each variation? 

And definitely agree with making sure these are of submersed growth only (at least new leaves since you got the plant, not just new plant in water). We could always start another post or log of emersed if enough people were interested??

*Eric here are some of the super blue. It's a super slow grower


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## Subtletanks91

cape said:


> Has anyone kept buces with low tech tank, Low light and no excel? I see Duck5003 said he kept them in a no dosing tank but not sure if that includes excel?
> 
> If OP states that growth is noticeably slower with just excel, would that mean with no excel/CO2, growth would almost be nonexistent?


No, I just received a brownie red from someone Saturday. And his was grown in a low light no fert or co2 tank. And it has a lot of leaves. Since Saturday it shot up two new leaves in my shrimp tank.


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## Ericj

Here are a few photos, I'll update the first post as we get good images of different types.

Icarus Bell









Centipede









Brownie Phantom









Green Wave









Biblis









Brownie Blue









I will get photos of more plants from my tanks soon!


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## Kehy

For the two buces I've had (sadly one vanished), I just kept them like my anubias and they seemed perfectly happy. The best growth occurred when they were positioned in the output of my HOB filter, partially emerged and directly under the light, this is also where my anubias do the best. Didn't need co2 or Excel, and I'm still seeing growth.


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## cape

Awesome, thanks for all the replies.

Duck5003, that is amazing growth for such a short period of time. How long have you had it in that specific tank for?


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## Duck5003

cape said:


> Awesome, thanks for all the replies.
> 
> Duck5003, that is amazing growth for such a short period of time. How long have you had it in that specific tank for?



That particular one, the first pic was taken about a week after i received the plant. It already had an unopened flower (like the current pics). I wish i knew what variation it was because that plant grows faster than some of my buces WITH CO2 and ferts, and its also one of my favorites  Its got some crazy colors on it hard to capture with a camera.

Nice photos Eric! You know, your shots gave me another thought. It would be cool to have 2 pics for each variation. One like the pics you've already shot, close up and out of water (not grown out of water) and one of them in a scape or growing in the tank. Thoughts??


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## samee

Amazing article with the most stunning pics ever taken of Buce

http://bucephalandraplants.blogspot.ca/2014/01/english-bucephalandra-magical-plants.html

Majority of the buce look the same to me. Just like those crystal shrimps that go A, AA, AAAAAAAAAA and so on. I never understood why you would pay $200 per shrimp vs $2 per shrimp for a visual difference only distinguishable by a magnification glass. Anyway, the only buce I like are the thin and long leaved ones. They are just the most different looking things.

I think I read somewhere, with a horrible memory, that there are only like 3 or 4 species that we know off and that majority of the names are just made up. When I do buy a buce, Im giving it a name.


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## Ericj

Yeah, the names being thrown around aren't at all official in any way. I think there are actually only 2 that have been officially classified. Sometimes the names tell you a little about what other plants they were related to, or that were found in the same area. I swear that some of the names are like the mothers name of the person who found them.

I've seen the photos from that blog, and they are beautiful, however, I think they are a bit misleading. The saturation and contrast are turned way up, which makes the plants look better than they are. I've had many of those species, growing super happily in several setups, and the reality does not look like the photos.


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## samee

Ericj said:


> Yeah, the names being thrown around aren't at all official in any way. I think there are actually only 2 that have been officially classified. Sometimes the names tell you a little about what other plants they were related to, or that were found in the same area. I swear that some of the names are like the mothers name of the person who found them.
> 
> I've seen the photos from that blog, and they are beautiful, however, I think they are a bit misleading. The saturation and contrast are turned way up, which makes the plants look better than they are. I've had many of those species, growing super happily in several setups, and the reality does not look like the photos.


I see, makes sense looking at the pics again. Its nothing new either.


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## water-kitties

How would you attach a bruce? I know you might tie it with thread but has anyone tried super glue gel? I have used this with an anubias petite and moss with success.


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## r45t4m4n

I've stuck them in holes and used rubber bands.


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## denske

Is it true that theres really only three species of bucephalandra? Do they all flower exactly the same? The one thing that bugs me is the inconsistent naming, its like everybody tries to put there own name on theirs.


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## Jeffww

I use super glue.


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## Subtletanks91

I have put the in the cracks of my dragon stone. Holes in my cholla wood. I let the leaves that fall off in shipping float the top of the tank and it grew a root


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## pianofish

denske said:


> Is it true that theres really only three species of bucephalandra? Do they all flower exactly the same? The one thing that bugs me is the inconsistent naming, its like everybody tries to put there own name on theirs.



Its only inconsistent because they haven't been classified. From the leaf textures, shapes, and colors that I have in my tank (around 20+ types) it would seem that there are more than 3 species. There are 3 known classified ones, yes. But I don't think that is to say that there aren't many more out there. The whole getting classified by the scientific community takes time, so I'm not gonna bank on that for a while. Until then, I will go by the common names. The best thing we as hobbyists could do is to not continually make up our own names... as previously mentioned... Even if some of the names are wacky already, just use those and keep those circulating, it would cause much less confusion. That way if I have Fake Catherine, I know that I have fake catherine. I know there is no official list, but I personally just go by the importer's trade names that they sell them as. If you look at the more common names, like the ones in Vasteq's portfolio, it helps too. Just my two cents...

Also in response to the comments about Vasteq's photos, his contrast is definitely turned up, however, I have many buces that display colors just as vibrant as his photos. Very rich blues, and reds. I'm glad buces are starting to get more popular here at TPT, one step further to getting them actually classified!

Joshua


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## Aquatic Delight

Ericj said:


> *A quick overview:*
> 
> All Bucephalandra are rhizome plants, and should be planted either with roots into substrate without covering the rhizome, or attached to wood or rock. The roots will attach very firmly to either.
> 
> *CO2:* Buce requires a good source of CO2. Injected CO2 gas is ideal, but alternate sources such as excel does also work. I've grown buce in a tank using nothing but excel, but growth was significantly slower, with smaller leaves, and almost no new growing points to form new plants.
> 
> *Splitting:* Buce can be split and propogated much like Anubias. Rhizomes can be cut, and new plants can form at any point along a rhizome. Once new plants start to generate their own roots, you can cut them from the rhizome to grow on it's own.
> 
> *Acclimating:* Buce does not like changing conditions. It will often lose a good number of leaves when being placed into a new aquarium. A tank with good levels of CO2 definitely helps prevent too much loss.
> 
> 
> Buce Addicts wanted!


so i wanted comment on these things as my experience would disagree with them.

i've understood that buce is most similar to growing anubias, but the difference that i've seen is that is more like a stem plant because it doesn't have a rhizome. one of my healthiest (and oldest) is just stuck straight in the substrate. when i look at them i don't see a rhizome like the anubias has.

*CO2:*As far as CO2 is concerned, it def does not require it to do well. my tank has no CO2, it is high O2, and did not get dosed excel. two water changes ago i started adding a little excel with the clean water, but there is no other excel dosing and the growth hasn't changed.


*Splitting: *so I can just cut the plant at any point and stick it back in the substrate just like any other stem or anubias? 


any who those are just my thoughts and experiences.


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## samee

pianofish said:


> ... I'm glad buces are starting to get more popular here at TPT, one step further to getting them actually classified!
> 
> Joshua



Im surprised how long its taking to circulate into the hobby. If I remember correctly, Ive seen forum posts from 2006 when I google searched the plant a few months ago. I find it cool that we have anabuis nana and now buce.


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## Ericj

I adjusted the CO2 entry in the first post due to the feedback. Thanks!!

I think it's actually the fact there is a ton of different "types" that is keeping it from getting too prevalent. There is no one type getting a ton of attention and being grown by tons of people.


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## pianofish

Also Eric, there are some Buces, that I have, one being Buce Bukit Betung, that does not produce side babies like other buces or anubias, I've actually had it for a year and it grow very much like a palm tree, the base of the "tree" gets longer and longer like a trunk, and it only produces leaves at the top of the "trunk" stem. It actually is a pretty cool plant lol. But just thought I'd throw in that some buce species do not make baby plants the normal way, I'm still looking for how to reproduce this one, any ideas?
Joshua


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## Duck5003

samee said:


> Im surprised how long its taking to circulate into the hobby. If I remember correctly, Ive seen forum posts from 2006 when I google searched the plant a few months ago. I find it cool that we have anabuis nana and now buce.


From what i have gathered from some other sources i have purchased from, they have been around for a few years however used to be a hundred plus dollars per plant. Now we're seeing them all under a $100, for the most part with a large variety and most being under $30. It really is great that they are getting out there now though, because they are so unique to me. We also have some great members on here who have propogated them and have them available at lower and lower prices, some have even been RAOK'd *cough* OP *cough*  its good to share so more people get to experience new and exotic flora and fauna!



pianofish said:


> Also Eric, there are some Buces, that I have, one being Buce Bukit Betung, that does not produce side babies like other buces or anubias, I've actually had it for a year and it grow very much like a palm tree, the base of the "tree" gets longer and longer like a trunk, and it only produces leaves at the top of the "trunk" stem. It actually is a pretty cool plant lol. But just thought I'd throw in that some buce species do not make baby plants the normal way, I'm still looking for how to reproduce this one, any ideas?
> Joshua


That does sound really cool, Josh. I'd love to see some pics. Off the top of my head i have two ideas, one is probly a little too big of a risk but i'll throw it out there lol 

1. Top it mid trunk and try and get the top to root, hopefully the remaining trunk will start to produce new leaves (This would be that last resort method IMO)

B. Depending on how large the root system is, maybe lop of a large chunk of root/roots and try to get something to take off from that? This method shouldn't hurt your plant. 

Just my 2 pennies


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## Ericj

I have seen some of those really upright buce, but never had one myself! I'd love to see photos. I agree with Duck though, if you can cut the rhizome at the other end from where it's growing, making sure both pieces have roots, I bet you the leafless rhizome might be forced to grown new plants. Worth a try, the cut probably won't do any harm to the original.

Yeah, it's great the prices are coming down, I'm doing my best to help that trend it seems, lol. But at the same time my best to get way more people addicted


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## limz_777

samee said:


> Im surprised how long its taking to circulate into the hobby. If I remember correctly, Ive seen forum posts from 2006 when I google searched the plant a few months ago. I find it cool that we have anabuis nana and now buce.


not jumping on the bandwagon yet till they get the scientific names sorted out , claims to be rare , but how rare is it ? considering the price one small clump it commands


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## Aquatic Delight

i don't think it is as rare as people claim it to be. if you search the internet you will find hundreds of tanks that are full of nothing but buces. 

i think the "rare" claim is coming from the lack of a viable supplier stateside. most of the sellers i run into/see selling, are from indonisea, malasya, thailand, etc. they seem to have unlimited supply, where as the people who actually sell locally only have a limited supply.


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## catfishbi

I think I should have enough Brownie ghost to start a the new setup


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## limz_777

Aquatic Delight said:


> i don't think it is as rare as people claim it to be. if you search the internet you will find hundreds of tanks that are full of nothing but buces.
> 
> i think the "rare" claim is coming from the lack of a viable supplier stateside. most of the sellers i run into/see selling, are from indonisea, malasya, thailand, etc. they seem to have unlimited supply, where as the people who actually sell locally only have a limited supply.


seriously i dont mind paying top dollars for a rare fish , but plants ? what overheads they got , all they need is a trekking outfit and a spade , the plant stay there stationary waiting to be dug out


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## junglefowl

I will rather pay for beautiful plants...than fish. If you're into planted tanks and aquascaping, then plants play the main role and focal point on the tanks...not fish/shrimps/snails (which are used for cleaning purpose)
The point here is depends on what you are interested in: keeping fish or doing planted aquascapes


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## junglefowl

Also, let me share some of my buces that I have and used to have :

















































































Flowering


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## Ericj

I took a few more photos as well. 

Mini Penelope









Lamandau









Theia 5 (it seems to be one of the smaller Theia types)









Red Cherry (one of the rounder leaves I've seen for Buce)









Super Mini Catherine (I haven't seen any other Buce this consistently small, been growing bunches of this for a long time, and it stays tiny)


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## pianofish

junglefowl said:


> I will rather pay for beautiful plants...than fish. If you're into planted tanks and aquascaping, then plants play the main role and focal point on the tanks...not fish/shrimps/snails (which are used for cleaning purpose)
> The point here is depends on what you are interested in: keeping fish or doing planted aquascapes


Agreed brother! Plants always come first in a tank for me. Then there's the guaranteed nerite snails amano shrimp and bn plecos. Maybe, maybe then I'll add some fish. That's how my latest buce scape tank was done.


Nice buces fellas! Check out the portfolio link in my sig for a wallop of buce pics. 
Joshua


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## Green_Flash

limz_777 said:


> seriously i dont mind paying top dollars for a rare fish , but plants ? what overheads they got , all they need is a trekking outfit and a spade , the plant stay there stationary waiting to be dug out


That isn't how it works. Bucephlandra are only found on the island of Borneo in the Pacific. Next with the exception of some aquacultured ones the majority are wild collected. Most species are unknown or new to science. Please research how much an expedition to Borneo would cost, trekking into remote and dangerous jungles and collecting specimens then bringing them home, then get back to me. I guarantee the price then will look bargain basket affordable.


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## limz_777

Green_Flash said:


> That isn't how it works. Bucephlandra are only found on the island of Borneo in the Pacific. Next with the exception of some aquacultured ones the majority are wild collected. Most species are unknown or new to science. Please research how much an expedition to Borneo would cost, trekking into remote and dangerous jungles and collecting specimens then bringing them home, then get back to me. I guarantee the price then will look bargain basket affordable.


 you are paying money for the unknown :icon_ques


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## pianofish

We are paying money for the ability to own and cultivate a beautiful underwater plant that very few have access to. It may not be scientifically classified, but it has identification system all on it's own. You pay top dollar because this isn't something Florida aquatics farm raises. No one except hobbyists do at the moment. Similar to buying and paying top dollar for rare cryptocorynes, the beauty and the price is in the eye of the beholder. Some of us could care less about rare fish and shrimp. Why do some grades of crystal shrimp go for thousands of $$? That's just what some people are into and they appreciate the time and effort that went towards developing those shrimp. 

I am paying money for the un"classified" yes. Unknown not so much. I am paying for beautiful plants that grow slow which is my style. I am paying for epiphytes as they are one of my favorite types of plants. I am paying for rare plants that only come from a few areas in the world. Also, I've read several articles stating that buce collection sites are endangered as they begin to be developed, so in a way as hobbyists we can preserve rare types of buce. Through growing and distributing amongst fellow hobbyists. Is that a little more justified?
Cheers,
Joshua


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## Duck5003

pianofish said:


> We are paying money for the ability to own and cultivate a beautiful underwater plant that very few have access to. It may not be scientifically classified, but it has identification system all on it's own. You pay top dollar because this isn't something Florida aquatics farm raises. No one except hobbyists do at the moment. Similar to buying and paying top dollar for rare cryptocorynes, the beauty and the price is in the eye of the beholder. Some of us could care less about rare fish and shrimp. Why do some grades of crystal shrimp go for thousands of $$? That's just what some people are into and they appreciate the time and effort that went towards developing those shrimp.
> 
> I am paying money for the un"classified" yes. Unknown not so much. I am paying for beautiful plants that grow slow which is my style. I am paying for epiphytes as they are one of my favorite types of plants. I am paying for rare plants that only come from a few areas in the world. Also, I've read several articles stating that buce collection sites are endangered as they begin to be developed, so in a way as hobbyists we can preserve rare types of buce. Through growing and distributing amongst fellow hobbyists. Is that a little more justified?
> Cheers,
> Joshua


Couldnt have said it any better myself  to each their own! Or in some cases, each to many of their own :hihi: I've been bitten by "BUGS" :help: 

Either way you look at it, its all fun, which is why we have hobbies  

Beautiful pics everyone! One of these days i will get some better ones of mine. Catfish, that pic of your brownie ghost lot made me drool a little :drool: 

Eric, that super mini is sweet. Is that what your trying to carpet your buce scape with??


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## Zapins

*Ericj *and others, I mostly see Buces grown emersed. What is the longest period of time you have kept them submersed and do they actually grow leaves underwater? Are the leaves morphologically any different from emersed grown leaves or are they the same?

Also, interestingly I was just able to get some nitrogen deficiency photos of a few Buce species from a friend. I'll be adding more photos but I figure this is a good thread to post them in. It took 2 years of no fertilizing in an emersed enclosure to develop nitrogen deficiency. http://deficiencyfinder.com/?page_id=819


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## Ericj

Zapins, everything I'm growing is submersed, and some have been submersed for nearly a year. They grow a ton underwater with the right conditions, and most grow reliably underwater under nearly any condition.

As for how they look, many of them are very similar submersed and emmersed, although some, most notably the famous Achilles I'm finding are quite different grown submersed. I'm still seeing if the leaves continue to grow and mature, but I'm finding them much smaller.

Duck - yeah, that super mini is my plan for the base of the rock wall in the buce tank. I have been growing this little guy forever, and might actually have enough to fill in there soon.

Pianofish - I third your remarks, well said.


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## pianofish

Zapins said:


> *Ericj *and others, I mostly see Buces grown emersed. What is the longest period of time you have kept them submersed and do they actually grow leaves underwater? Are the leaves morphologically any different from emersed grown leaves or are they the same?
> 
> Also, interestingly I was just able to get some nitrogen deficiency photos of a few Buce species from a friend. I'll be adding more photos but I figure this is a good thread to post them in. It took 2 years of no fertilizing in an emersed enclosure to develop nitrogen deficiency. http://deficiencyfinder.com/?page_id=819



I've grown them for many months. Only submersed. The leaves are different as I've received a few emersed and they shed their leaves. They are morphologically different. Often times with the submersed being much more colorful. 

Mine definitely get potassium deficiency and pinholes if I don't keep up the potassium. Nice pics on the Nitrogen Deficiency!


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## Zapins

pianofish said:


> Mine definitely get potassium deficiency and pinholes if I don't keep up the potassium. Nice pics on the Nitrogen Deficiency!


Would you mind posting or PMing me some of those photos? I'd absolutely love to see them.

Good to know they are truly aquatic then. I had begun to think that they were only tolerant of being submersed rather than fully adapted to it.


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## haruko05

I thought I'll mention this. A few months ago, I re-did my whole tank(, new substrate, complete new water,) and had a few of my buces melt on me because of this. One of them had nothing but stem and roots left. At the time, I was really irritated and about to give up on the hobby. I left the half melted stem of the buce in the water and here's what I found a few weeks later (Sorry, picture from my phone and that stem was just really that tiny):
















I was pretty surprise when I saw the two tiny leaves growing on this stem. I've learn since then not to give up on these dead looking plants since there's a sight chance it'll come back.

Also, have anyone seen a buce like this before? I'm going trying to get my hand on one since it looks so interesting and I want to see what's inside that bulb. They called it Bucephalandra sp Bulb


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## Green_Flash

limz_777 said:


> you are paying money for the unknown :icon_ques












Did what I explain go right over you? Go back and reread it. Like pianofish said this is a incredible privilege.


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## sbarbee54

Limz, I guess not all people can enjoy the hard work and difficulties it takes to get these plants, that are only grown in one small area of the world. That is no easy task to get to and then collect them.

I love them and enjoy them. After I got 2 I am now hooked and getting more in trades.


Sent from my iPad 3 using Tapatalk HD


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## Kehy

It should also be pointed out that buces grow really really slowly. Collecting the plants in large numbers sets the recovery of the natural stocks way back. I'm sure that there are many collectors who take care to leave enough natural stock for the local varieties to recover, but I'm just as sure that there are those that take all they can get. 

Personally, I only want plants that have been grown/propagated by another hobbiest. That way at least I feel better about not possibly damaging the environment a tiny bit, and I have more confidence that the plants will take to my tanks well.


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## Ericj

Kehy, good point there. It can definitely take months when starting with one plant to split and have enough to safely share with others. Even in high light/co2/ferts it doesn't grow quickly.

One of the things I particularly enjoy is watching that single plant grow into a clump over time. When you see that single plant it looks beautiful, but you don't really get the full amazing effect of these plants until they're growing out like that I think.


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## r45t4m4n

I got BBA all over my buce (gone for vacation, parents "taking care" of the tank). Think it is safe to soak them in a diluted H2O2 solution to kill it?


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## anniexue

Thought since I am going to get some bucephalandra soon, better start to do some homework. Great post Eric, very informational!


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## popimac

Is it true that bucep grow faster in colder water with good water circulation? Eg. 24-25 degree celcius? My achilles are growing well in my chilled shrimp tank.


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## BeastMaster

I've been dealing w/ planted tanks for about two years now. Been working primarily w/ various foreground plants and java ferns and only recently shown an interest in crypts & buces.

In researching the buces, I found it difficult to ID and hence gain background knowledge on this group of plants. With so many commercial names floating around, I needed to find a reliable ID source. I think I may have stumbled across that document. A journal article in Wildenowia by Wong & Boyce published this year titled "Studies on Schismatoglottideae (Araceae) of Borneo XXX-New Species and Combinations for Bucephalandra" identifies 27 species of Buces and links some of the commercial names used by suppliers of yet undetermined species to 2 species complexes. It's a start.

I'm about to make the buce plunge. I've purchased some plants from another TPT member and will be adding them to a couple of my scapes. Not really interested in rarity nor am I a collector. Just want to enjoy watching them spread and blend with the overall scape. Will be subscribing to this thread for updates. :bounce:


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## AquaDoob

Hello all, fairly new to the aquascaping community and was doing research on Buce and came across this thread. 

Who's got some, please take my money!!! I'm in So. Cal... and paypal ready. Thanks in advance!

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## Zapins

Check the for sale section, lots of people are selling them.


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## JJ09

cape said:


> Has anyone kept buces with low tech tank, Low light and no excel? I see Duck5003 said he kept them in a no dosing tank but not sure if that includes excel?
> 
> If OP states that growth is noticeably slower with just excel, would that mean with no excel/CO2, growth would almost be nonexistent?


I just wanted to chime in. I have a few buces that I bought from another member a month ago. They melted some at first but now are definitely growing new leaves, albeit very slowly. I don't use C02 or Excel, one of my tanks is low light and the other med. They're growing!


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