# Frustrated beginner needs help with lighting and everything else



## James M (Jun 21, 2012)

A lot of people like to make keeping a planted tank much harder than it really has to be.
A capped soil substrate goes a long way toward success, and simplifies maintenance. 
Better substrate means light becomes less of a limiting factor.

I have a 37 gallon bowfront tank, capped soil - 2x24w HO lights, lush plant growth and I hardly do anything to this tank at all. It's the simplest easiest tank I've ever maintained, and I come from a reef background as well as traditional freshwater. If you know anything about reefs, you know a properly set up reef tank only takes minutes a day to maintain. A well set up plant tank takes even less. 

Most days I feed the fish - that's it. Almost no dosing - the fish food is the fertilizer.
I suggest you read Diana Walstad's book. There are many ways/variations to keep a simple planted tank, but it really can be VERY simple - just like you imagine.


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## Alyssum (Feb 23, 2015)

Thanks for the reply. I went and looked up the "highlights" of her book. I am already aware that soil is preferred, but that option is closed to me now. I'd have to remove my current substrate and add in soil and the tank is already filled with water and cycling. I'd basically have to start over. While this might be better in the long run, I want to know what I can do with it, if anything, as it is now. It seems if I'm just capping the soil, I have wasted quite a bit of money buying the sand as well. I was going to get cheap pool sand or play sand, but I didn't like the look of either. :icon_frow


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## aquarium hippy (Feb 7, 2013)

Just get some gro-soil root tabs and pick up a single bulb t5 ho fixture from a hydroponics store. These come with a decent reflector and should be around $50. Look for the daisy chain style that is what's on my 55 and it grows low to medium light plants just fine. It should also fit in the narrow strip on your hood. The gro-soil tabs over time make your substrate more soil like and you can get them from one of the members here pretty cheap.


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## walzon1 (Jan 28, 2014)

keep your current hood and throw some LEDs on it and viola you got yourself a DIY with less than 50 bucks. Buy a whole role of 6500k LEDs 20 bucks old PC power supplies usually have a 12v power supply in the 300 watt range so you could literally run 5 55 gallons with one power supply. Super easy project and grows plants like crazy on the cheap. 


I would also keep the substrate you have changing it out isn't worth the effort, put some root tabs under your plants and that's it. It can take up to 6 months for inert substrate to have enough fish waste to fertilize the plants but its will still do the job and I have found sand to be one of the best substrates for plants to root in.


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## Alyssum (Feb 23, 2015)

aquarium hippy: Would it be possible to rest the light on the glass? I can't hang it because I live in an apartment. Also, are you referring to gro soil tabs as a particular brand, or just a general term? I know people like putting osmocote in their home made ones, so is that what you are referring to?

walzon1: Very interesting. I have two power supplies lying around. Is there some kind of tutorial some where for this? Where do I buy the right LEDS? Thanks for the ideas.


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## NaturevsNurture (Oct 31, 2014)

There are a lot of low light plants that you could keep. Java moss, java fern, hornwort. I've had success with these in my tanks that were low light. And cheap too lol you don't really need to fertilize or do co2 to keep plants, just gotta find the right ones. There's a low light plant list somewhere on the forums here that you should search for. Just don't expect them to grow very fast.

As long as your parameters aren't terrible you should be fine. I assume you have a test kit for at least ammonia. If you can find anything low light at your local fish store (not Petco, pet supermarket, etc) you should go ahead and buy it and see how it does. The only way to find out what works is to try


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## walzon1 (Jan 28, 2014)

Alyssum said:


> aquarium hippy: Would it be possible to rest the light on the glass? I can't hang it because I live in an apartment. Also, are you referring to gro soil tabs as a particular brand, or just a general term? I know people like putting osmocote in their home made ones, so is that what you are referring to?
> 
> walzon1: Very interesting. I have two power supplies lying around. Is there some kind of tutorial some where for this? Where do I buy the right LEDS? Thanks for the ideas.


Its' super easy I could walk you through it but if your really interested I could post my build with step by step. Pic below one of my first builds came out super crappy but grows plants so who cares. These are 3014 Led 600 per roll, mixed with 5050 RGBs with a color changing remote. Been going almost a year.





But the real proofs in the pudding as they say. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVpJmerAL38


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

All plants do take in nutrients from the water. Some are usually tied to rocks, logs etc so those can only get them from the water when grown like that.
I know at least one person who has lots of plants in a tank/w sand only. Those plants are mostly the type they call "rooted" which have better developed root systems. The plants in that category are the ones people always say you NEED root tabs/w. He uses ONLY water ferts and you can't tell the difference between his or ones in another tank.
There ARE a couple of plants that obviously do better/w root tabs or dirt under the top layer of sand or gravel. Amazon Sword is one and Dwarf Hair Grass(DHG) is another.
But lots of the Amazon Swords are grow regularly without dirt or root tabs.
Trying to make a point that dry water ferts are something to get to know/understand.
A kit of all of what you might need is from $15-$35 and will last a year or more for
the ferts and other than a set of measuring spoons that's all you will need.
I would ask questions before buying.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=825897
Interesting reading. I only use half of what it says for the 10-20g tank once a week.
For a tank without injected CO2 you will only use one dose of these instead of three per week.
http://www.barrreport.com/forum/bar...ndex/2938-ei-light-for-those-less-techy-folks
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=56042
Might be good to bookmark some of these.


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## aquarium hippy (Feb 7, 2013)

Alyssum said:


> aquarium hippy: Would it be possible to rest the light on the glass? I can't hang it because I live in an apartment. Also, are you referring to gro soil tabs as a particular brand, or just a general term? I know people like putting osmocote in their home made ones, so is that what you are referring to?
> 
> Yes Gro-Soil Root Tabs are a specific brand and yes I have that same fixture from the hydroponics shop resting on the glass of my 55 that is full of low light plants atm
> 
> something similar to this https://www.google.com/#q=48"+t5ho+...h+reflector&tbm=shop&spd=15446513405139366559


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## Alyssum (Feb 23, 2015)

walzon1 said:


> Its' super easy I could walk you through it but if your really interested I could post my build with step by step. Pic below one of my first builds came out super crappy but grows plants so who cares. These are 3014 Led 600 per roll, mixed with 5050 RGBs with a color changing remote. Been going almost a year.
> 
> 
> But the real proofs in the pudding as they say. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVpJmerAL38



How much did these LEDs cost? I am interested.

NaturevsNurture: I was thinking of buying a bundle from aquabid.com. I couldn't really find any healthy plants at the LFSs I've visited. Anyone have any experience with those? I've looked on a few forums, but the plants seemed a bit pricey or no pictures. 

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?liveplants&1425273003

Thing is I don't like all of the plants and some of the ones I'm interested in aren't even there, like pennywort and jungle val, which I heard are good starter plants. I don't know if it would be a good starter set.

Raymond: I had read a bit about dry fertilizers, but got really confused with all the mixing ratios and chemical names if I wanted to make it myself. I will have to check out those links. Are you using the liquid stuff this person is selling or the powders? I'm assuming it's the powder...

aquarium hippy: I see. My other concern is that my top is not completely glass, as it has two tops, one on each side, so there is plastic in the middle of the tank where they connect. I imagine the light will get pretty hot so I am concerned about the plastic melting. Not sure how I can prop it up so it's not completely resting on it. 


Thanks for the responses guys, it's helping me feel less anxiety about all of this plant stuff :hihi:


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

If you don't have anything like it laying around Loew's has square hardwood pieces about 3' long in the section where they keep hand railing wood and the vertical post that support it. I would just cut a couple of pieces long enough to go from front to back of the tank and put one on each end of the light. One inch is enough to keep the heat up off the glass enough. I used those 1" sq pieces plus some 3/4"x3/4" outside corner molding to make a frame for my Odyssea light fixture as it didn't close far enough to set on my tank properly.
I use the dry ferts, but this is a link to a list of dosing amounts so tsp can be used.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=21944
Without injected CO2 you only need one of those doses per week instead of three.
You can even try one every two weeks at first and like any other time just watch for deficiencies in the plants.

Bump: You don't need a top on it but to help cut evaporation and to stop certain fish from jumping it's better. If you decide to use more light this is one of the cheapest ways to go.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lithonia-Lighting-Diamond-Plate-2-Light-Chrome-Ceiling-Fluorescent-Shop-Light-1241DP-RE/202192989
That will give you enough light for most any plant. Just not enough for those bright red ones. They usually require injected CO2 anyway because the light is so high it causes algae if not injected.


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## walzon1 (Jan 28, 2014)

Okay quick tutorial
first the lights, they can be had as low as $5.00 if you bid on them on auction search ebay for 5m 6500k (m stands for meters) 6500k which is the color temp you want. You want the non-waterproof just make sure you protect them with glass cover or other means the waterproof fog up over time and become useless. Next you will see sizes like 3528 or 5630 these are the sizes (35mm by 28mm) and (56mm by 30mm) the bigger LED means more output in watts which means less LEDs you will need. 3014 and 2835(3528 are the same size but less output) are the newest and brightest but also very small I would get 600LED per 5 meter if using these. 5630 and 5050 are large and 300 LED per 5 meters is fine.

Next easy build first you need to get your old PC Power supply out, there is no power when not plugged into a motherboard. To fix this you must first jumper the GREEN wire which will give you constant 12v power (some PCs actually have 3v rails which can run 1 watt and 3 watt LEDs, just an option for consideration.)


Next I use a 4 pin plug adapter which you can get a set at fry's for 2-3 bucks simply cut off the AC plug coming from the T8 hood and wire in a 4pin pc plug you will only need 2 wires Yellow(power) Black (ground) as you can see the 4pin adapter I bought uses RED(power) Black(ground) just make sure they line up when you plug them in. This Pic is 2 hoods that are connected totaling 85 watts. 



Finally You need silicone I get this at the .99 cent store. It's especially important if your attaching LEDs to a reflector or metal hood because once you pull the tape off LED strips there are copper contacts on the back of them, so to keep it from becoming a short I silicone the back of the LEDs to the hood. This also helps the LED's stay on since the 3m adhesive doesn't usually work very well. After that it's simple soldering Plus to Plus, Minus to Minus. Last pic is 5050 RGB covered in silicone to protect corrosion, they are bit more complicated to wire but same principle.



A few more points to mention, Determining Wattage is tough with LED's and it really depends on the spacing I have learned. If the LED's are spread out and the light output doesn't overlap too much you will need more wattage. If the LED's are spaced tightly and close together you will need less wattage. I would start with 1 watt per gallon so 55 watts in your case. Lights can easily be eliminated and added to the string to control brightness. A Dimmer also works great so you can really Dial in the output if you start having algae issues search ebay for 12v PWM dimmer  They have all different kinds. 

Project Cost literally 15 bucks for this 25 watt LED. This was a 10 gallon incandescent hood originally.


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## Alyssum (Feb 23, 2015)

Raymond S. said:


> If you don't have anything like it laying around Loew's has square hardwood pieces about 3' long in the section where they keep hand railing wood and the vertical post that support it. I would just cut a couple of pieces long enough to go from front to back of the tank and put one on each end of the light. One inch is enough to keep the heat up off the glass enough. I used those 1" sq pieces plus some 3/4"x3/4" outside corner molding to make a frame for my Odyssea light fixture as it didn't close far enough to set on my tank properly.
> I use the dry ferts, but this is a link to a list of dosing amounts so tsp can be used.
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=21944
> Without injected CO2 you only need one of those doses per week instead of three.
> ...


Can I get a picture of your light setup with the wood pieces?

Walzon1: Thanks for writing all that :icon_surp There are so many options!

Now I'm just trying to think of what will work best for me. My question is, will my fish be okay if I add plants after they're in the tank? I don't want to throw a bunch of plants and ferts in the tank suddenly if it's going to be harmful. What do people think about the plant package for sale on aquabid? Are these all "beginner" plants?

Amazon Sword Echinodorus uruguayensis
Anubias "Wrinkle Leaf" 
Crypt balansae Cryptocoryne balansae
Java Fern Microsorium pteropus 
Java Moss Vesicularia dubyana 
Nomaphila siamensis
Cabomba aquatica 
Hygrophila salicifolia 
Ludwigia repens 
Rotala rotundifolia
Alternanthera reineckii


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=14289&pictureid=77049
That is how each corner looks. I pre-drilled the holes so the dry wall screws wouldn'tsplit it and they are back from the ends for the same reason on the bottom piece.
One of those strips goes across the front and one across the back of the tank.
So the square pieces go front to back on each end. If you look close you can see the wire bracket of the T5 fixture on top of the square piece. The bracket is too long for a 10g tank so these had to be wider than the tank a bit. I also use a gang valve to regulate how much air goes to my stone for the filter so I just made this wood bracket to go wider to give room for the gang valve on the end of the tank. I just use a cut piece of glass for a top and it is short by one inch on each end for heater line and air hose. Seems like you wouldn't need the front and back pieces to just lift up the fixture at each end. The square wood I used was 1"x1"x 3' long when bought.
I'm going to bookmark this thread for the LED diagram...thanks walzon1.


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## Alyssum (Feb 23, 2015)

Thanks for the explanation. I've decided to go with the single T5HO fixture just to make things simple for now. It won't look as pretty, but it seems the best route for me at the moment. I wanted to ask: Which kit did you buy from the link you gave me?

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=825897

There are so many different ones and I just want one that has everything. There isn't much of an explanation on each of the packages and I haven't had a lot of time to sit down and read all about it thoroughly. I'm not sure if I just ask him directly on his thread either :confused1:


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

If you go down the page till you see Package Pricing and look at the third one listed it has all most people use. There is a $1 item that you can get at Walmart pharmacy dept which will make it complete. MGSO4 better known as Epsom Salt.
Get the extra iron/w it.


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## Alyssum (Feb 23, 2015)

NPK + CSM+B Package- $20 shipped
1lb KNO3, 1/2lb KH2PO4, 1lb K2SO4, and 1/2lb CSM+B
Add 1/2lb Iron Chelate 10% for $8.50

That one? Add the Iron Chelate as well? In the thread you gave me, one person says I might have enough magnesium in my water supply already, but I'll look into it. I also realized you gave me a list to plants. Thanks for all the help


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## dpod (Sep 16, 2014)

Alyssum said:


> Are these all "beginner" plants?
> 
> Amazon Sword Echinodorus uruguayensis
> Anubias "Wrinkle Leaf"
> ...


Looks like a good bunch, and definitely go for some other crypts like C. undulata and C. spiralis if you have the option. I think they look better than the common C. wendtii varieties. Bolbitis heudelotii is another lovely plant that does great attached to driftwood.
My tank is pretty low tech (inert gravel, root tabs, occasional doses of excel and fertilizer), and I've got a bunch of slow-growing yet happy crypts, anubias, java fern, and Ludwigia sp. "Red."


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

Your city has a water content report that it publishes on the web.
It will tell you the Magnesium content. The suggested target level is 5 ppm.
Use the calculator to find out how much you need by setting the first drop down list to MGSO4. Subtract what you have from how much it recommends and adjust the 
amount it suggest to use and then reverse engineer the amoun of measuring spoons
needed to use on the second drop down list set at "the results of my dosing" which allows the use of spoons for dosing. If this is not clear PM me and I will go through
it step by step.
Iron is not needed in most cases as it is in the CSM+B, but the shipping on it alone if you do need it will make you wish you had got it/w the rest.
A few plants do need extra on it. Some types of Rotala are one on that list.


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## Alyssum (Feb 23, 2015)

Thanks for the info. I am having the hardest time finding a single T5HO light fixture. I've went to/called like 5-6 different hydroponics stores in my area. Either they are on back order or they don't sell them at all. So frustrating! I am going to a fish auction tomorrow and I wanted to be prepared for any plants I might buy.


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## Alyssum (Feb 23, 2015)

So I went to the fish auction on Saturday and really enjoyed it. I've never been anything like this before so it was interesting. Reluctantly, I took the plunge and got two amazon swords, a hitchhiking baby crypt, and dwarf saggitaria. I was a bit nervous they wouldn't survive until I got the light, but I couldn't resist. They were a pretty good size and I got them all for $12. I bought some root tabs to tide them over. I should be getting my light on Wednesday and I'm going to order those ferts. They looked good in the bag, but a little beat up with some holes when I took them home and put them in the water. I wanted to know if I made a bad choice on them. Is there any obvious deficiencies on these guys or problems? They came with snail eggs which I scraped off. Thanks.


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