# Staurogyn Repens still Struggling



## Acen (Oct 2, 2012)

Ok this is likely the end of my attemp to keep Staurogyn Repens in the "Grow Out Tank"

This plant just doesnt seem to like anything i do submersed so i'll go emmersed for now to save the batch. (I Found that No breathing holes and HIGH humidity is the key with this plant emmersed until the stems darken then it seems ok with less humidity)

Submersed on the other hand has been a nightmare
my last thread ended in too much light as the problem but now that i raised the lights to 3ft above the aquarium my HC is Melting and the Staurogyn just took a little longer to go south.. 
. 
Previous thread
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=218953

Current Params:
Lights = 2 LED Floods Home Depot 5000k 110watt each supposedly? (Now Considering 24" Finnex Ray 2 to replace)
KH = 3
C02 = Greenish Yellow Drop Checker
GH = 10 Lowered from 12+ (over the past few weeks)
Temp 72

Persistant Problem:
same stunted new growth - on the Staurogyn Repens
curling leaves - mainly on S. Repens - is it possible to have a Ca deficiency with GH boost and a 10-12 GH?
Some leaves are falling off - On Staurogyn and Now Rotala Rotifundunda
Brown stuff on the edge of many of the plants. - on most plants
The GSA has receded on most plant leaves and glass

What i have done:
Added even more flow
Turned C02 on earlier for more saturation
raised lights to 3ft (will be lowing back down 2.5ft)
Same Dosing Regime (Ei) Plantex Cms+b, NPK, K, GH Bosst
Added xtra P04 (for GSA)

Here is a pic of the curling leaves and browning dust that is my HC also.



















Any suggestions??


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## leo1234 (Dec 2, 2009)

Put a few root tabs under them.


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## stevenjohn21 (May 23, 2012)

The roots its sending off on the stems makes me think its searching for nutrients, whats your Ei dosing schedule ?


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## pirayaman (Mar 30, 2008)

S repens they look good. May be try trimming a few to see if that gets them to spread. Other than they look healthy. Though compared to mine. Yours are a bit leggy lot of space in between the nodes/leaves mine are a lot more compact and bushy. Maybe more light u need


StevenJohn21 is that why plants send of those extra roots? Seems impossible to me. I have fresh mgops with a fluorite cap and does flourish and iron with potash. And some of my plants do that too is very weird.


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## stevenjohn21 (May 23, 2012)

Some plants have them regardless but others will form if not enough nutrients are found in the substrate.... its really clever if you think about it.

I cant remember the exact name given to them, but i figured by calling them "roots" you would know what i meant lol


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## pirayaman (Mar 30, 2008)

stevenjohn21 said:


> Some plants have them regardless but others will form if not enough nutrients are found in the substrate.... its really clever if you think about it.
> 
> I cant remember the exact name given to them, but i figured by calling them "roots" you would know what i meant lol


Ok but I have less than a month old mgops fluorite. liquid ferts flourish and API iron and potash. Co2 high light. And I dose ferts a lot cause I'm always thinking more is better

And my cabomba does this my h sunset green myrio and a reineckii. All shoot out those root runners


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## acitydweller (Dec 28, 2011)

Whats your water change schedule?


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## Acen (Oct 2, 2012)

Ok i Do Have Osmocote root tabs


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## Acen (Oct 2, 2012)

I think my picture was not telling. The plants are brittle and curled. I removed most of them to goto my emmersed setup and the decline is very evident. This was the healthiest batch that i ever received and many of them have decayed leaves and falling off.

The leggyness is because they are fairy fresh, meaning i received them from a trim pack only 2 weeks ago.

I do 50% 1x's per week and recently 2x's per week

I will post pix of the previous batch to show where it appears this batch was headed


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

it needs more co2

it does not grow well without it.. curling is the first sign of co2 deficiency.. this plant requries a lot


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

stevenjohn21 said:


> The roots its sending off on the stems makes me think its searching for nutrients, whats your Ei dosing schedule ?


not true.. it does this frequently. most aquatic plants do. roots are more of a mounting, or securing system than for nutrient uptake
higher flow will also generally cause plants to put out more roots to help stabilize them


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## Acen (Oct 2, 2012)

This is a what the last 2 batches ended up looking like


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## Acen (Oct 2, 2012)

My Ei schedule is the typical 3 days of alternating Macro and Micro ferts


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

Acen said:


> This is a what the last 2 batches ended up looking like


 
you just made me believe in my post even more so.\
co2


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## Acen (Oct 2, 2012)

Ok this is the same batch, I went emmersed in case all the others failed









This is the same batch taken from the grow out Submerged tank.









Hopefully they will recover emmersed


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## ThatGuyWithTheFish (Apr 29, 2012)

HD Blazingwolf said:


> it needs more co2
> 
> it does not grow well without it.. curling is the first sign of co2 deficiency.. this plant requries a lot


I disagree, though the light might drive that deficiency.


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## Acen (Oct 2, 2012)

HD, Yeah i added 1 new 85 GPH power head in addition to the 2 running plus my filter is pretty solid for this size tank Finnex px360. 13 gallon shallow.

The C02 was blowing directly at them with a yellow green Drop Checker, Im diffusing from the filter so im getting totally disolved C02 with a few spits every 3-4 minutes, so im stumped with co2 thing and starting to think that its the light itself??


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## Acen (Oct 2, 2012)

@ThatGuywiththefishhY

Yeah thats why i originally raised the lights to lessen the demand and then uped the C02 in hopes to equalizee things.

Ug is spreading fast, Downi Helfari is spreading fast and E.Parvula doing great,
Glosso on the front right started as a hitchiker is doing well along with mini fissidens etc, Just The Staurogyn is struggling under this light!!


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## pirayaman (Mar 30, 2008)

that looks like very low lighting to me. is the light in your emmersed tank closer to the repens. 

final awnser l i g h t.


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## danielt (Dec 19, 2012)

I found that Staurogyne is quite versatile to water parameters but one thing it doesn't like is sudden change. I had two bushes that melt in the time span of one week after a gH abrupt change. They disintegrated completely. CO2 and light do not matter much. I have some that grew in almost no light being planted at the base of a huge Althernantera pack.

Curly leaves makes me think there's a Ca deficiency. This plant grew well in gH higher than yours. I don't think that's the problem but the test doesn't tell the whole story. It might tell you how much bivalent ions you have in the water but not the proportions. The gH test might indicate some other ions and you have low Ca or none.

Those water changes might be the culprit here. If they bounce water parameters this plant could be affected. Others might have alternate ways of getting their fill but this one not. One thing I observed in my tank is that light does not have a huge impact. It grew slowly as usual in both high and low light. Flow also was not available to it as I lost all my Downoy and this plant survived.

Hope this helps.


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## pirayaman (Mar 30, 2008)

my kh is 2 and gh is 4 

i personally have downi and repens and hc and i use flourish and api iron and potash. no root tabs also co2 a 1 bps in a 40 gallon with a ceramic diffuser. 

i also have 6 23 wat sprial cfls 3 inchs above top lip of tank. 

if kh is calcium then you have more than me. yet my hc is not melting my repens is short and really full nodes are a 1/4 inch between them is not curling and my downoi is doing great 

i really think bringing you light down is the awnser maybe lower to 1 1/2 feet or 2 and keep everything else the same and see what happens 

i also do 2 30 percent water changes a week. 

hope this helps


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## Acen (Oct 2, 2012)

danielt said:


> I found that Staurogyne is quite versatile to water parameters but one thing it doesn't like is sudden change. I had two bushes that melt in the time span of one week after a gH abrupt change. They disintegrated completely. CO2 and light do not matter much. I have some that grew in almost no light being planted at the base of a huge Althernantera pack.
> 
> Curly leaves makes me think there's a Ca deficiency. This plant grew well in gH higher than yours. I don't think that's the problem but the test doesn't tell the whole story. It might tell you how much bivalent ions you have in the water but not the proportions. The gH test might indicate some other ions and you have low Ca or none.
> 
> ...


Thanx, thats very good information. I too have read about people keeping S.Repens in very High/low GH and KH and low/high light, C02 and non C02 which is why it is so frustration. I consider this tank to be high tech. 
I too wonder about the GH readings, I dose GH boost in Barrs recomended amounts and it doesnt affect the GH so im wondering if im getting readings of some other ions. maybe i can increase my GH boost doses?


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## Acen (Oct 2, 2012)

pirayaman said:


> my kh is 2 and gh is 4
> 
> i personally have downi and repens and hc and i use flourish and api iron and potash. no root tabs also co2 a 1 bps in a 40 gallon with a ceramic diffuser.
> 
> ...


Also great info, i suspected that the raised light caused the HC to melt, so i lowered it down to 2 1/2 for now and cut the photo period to help with the recovery, leaving everything else the same until i can grow my emmersed batches. Oh and yes the emmersed setup is very well lit and fairly close to the plants.


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## Acen (Oct 2, 2012)

After reading this article im going to explore dosing 2x's the GH boost amount per WC and see what happens.

http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/aquariumkh.html


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

I grow a ton of this stuff, the comment made about *change* is likely the key there.

I cooked a tank and poushed it to 90F, that melted most of the leaves over the next 2-4 weeks, then 1-2 weeks after that, new leaves came back.

It's a bit like a Crypt really.

This has nothing to do with ferts, Ca++, CO2 only if things are bad for a week or more/chronic etc.

Try trimming the new tops and the bottoms will sprout new growth.
When you plant this plant, it does nothing for 1-2 weeks. 
It's growing roots actually.

So it does not bother saving those leaves you have when you get the plants.
It'll just grow news specific to the tank.

My tap is KH:1 and GH or 2.

I dose about 1 teaspoon per 60 Gal of gH booster 1-2x a week.

It's nothing to do with Calcium, I've never seen any confirmed Ca++ deficient aquatic plants in my life. Well, Rice, but no submersed species.


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## Acen (Oct 2, 2012)

@ Tom Barr
I got my first 2 batches from you and they both slowly died off over the course of say a month, this last batch i only gave it about 3 weeks before pulling most of them. So things seemed to be going south within that time.

I have left a few in the tank for test purposes, If they bounce back then i'll reintroduce the emmersed plants maybe cutting the tops prior to introduction..


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## pirayaman (Mar 30, 2008)

lower the light and i like triming them too. if you trim it it will spread 

im a landscaper in the day im fairly proficent at growing things


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## sdbrewer (May 17, 2012)

Have there been any improvements with the s. repens since your last post?


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## Xalyx (Sep 26, 2010)

Where do you buy S. Repends? I can't find it anywhere.


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## sdbrewer (May 17, 2012)

Xalyx said:


> Where do you buy S. Repends? I can't find it anywhere.


Tom Barr (aka plantbrain) is a great source.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

The For Sale section here on Planted Tank.

That's a great place to start.



Xalyx said:


> Where do you buy S. Repends? I can't find it anywhere.


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