# shrimp tank supplements



## Larry Grenier (Apr 19, 2005)

Bump to the top 

I'm curious as-well. I've been using a combination of RO and tap and my tigers are thriving and reproducing. I could be wrong but I believe it takes very low PH to get any calcium out of the sea-shells. The reef folks feed CO2 into a reactor full of Argonite or crushed sea-sheels to get the stuff to slowly dissolve. 

Since the shrimp come from relatively soft water, I don't believe they need much minerals like calcium like their marine cousins.

Maybe someone more knowledgeable can cime-in on sea-shells buffering the water and even if it's necessary.


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## Baadboy11 (Oct 28, 2009)

Whatcha feeding them? cause they get most of their nutrients from food.


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## guppygolucky (Nov 9, 2009)

I use mineral rock. The shells are a good idea, but be careful on how much you add.


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## 9am53 (Jan 23, 2008)

I don't really feed them anything special, omega 1 "super color flakes", hikari ocean plankton, some shrimp pellets, omega 1 spirulina wafers, blood worms, daphnia (if they ever catch any), is there a special shrimp specific food that is good for them? 

I could throw in a shell at a time into my CO2 reactor...that would save me from having to find some chalk to add.


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## mossback (Aug 12, 2010)

Ken's Fish carries veg sticks supplemented with calcium, and I wouldn't be surprised if some shrimp-specific foods are similarly supplemented. Spinach leaves also have a fairly high calcium content. 

And according to very knowledgeable folks on other shrimp threads, dietary calcium is apparently far more important than dissolved calcium. My more limited experience with a colony of neo hets supports this view; they appear to be molting and reproducing normally with dietary calcium only, since our water is extremely soft.


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## 9am53 (Jan 23, 2008)

Are these foods mail order only? I have never heard of them...maybe it's because I live in rural Canada... I'll see if I can eBay them, or just make my own.


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## Kunsthure (Aug 2, 2010)

Most shrimp need soft water, so I'd just use your tap water. Shrimp do need calcium and what I do is tuck a cuttle bone in the back of the tank and they pick at it and get calcium that way, in addition to their food. I feed Ken's soft and moist, zucchini (high in calcium), but the real hit is shelled peas. They fight over them and it's like a little sissy fight. . Otherwise I don't add anything.

-Lisa


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## mfgann (Dec 16, 2010)

9am53 said:


> Are these foods mail order only? I have never heard of them...maybe it's because I live in rural Canada... I'll see if I can eBay them, or just make my own.


Ken's Fish is where you get Ken's fish sticks. Apparently very, very good stuff. I've got to run my stuff lower to have an excuse to order some, but I'd like to try it.


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## Captivate05 (Feb 23, 2010)

I think BSmith is still selling smaller portions of the Veggie sticks w calcium for a good price. Kens sells large quantities of food, and unless you're feeding an entire store full of shrimp, you might want to consider buying an ounce from BSmtih for $5 shipped. An ounce will last a while with shrimp.

You can check the SnS for his Kens Food sale thread.


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## 9am53 (Jan 23, 2008)

My tap water is undrinkable nasty super high in sodium softened water. I don't even give it to my cats, I would never expect my shrimp to live in it! Not to mention my plants would all die too! If I had a bypass on the softener I would just use the well water and use hard water plants (if there are any) and fish, but alas there is no bypass, so no dice.




Kunsthure said:


> Most shrimp need soft water, so I'd just use your tap water. Shrimp do need calcium and what I do is tuck a cuttle bone in the back of the tank and they pick at it and get calcium that way, in addition to their food. I feed Ken's soft and moist, zucchini (high in calcium), but the real hit is shelled peas. They fight over them and it's like a little sissy fight. . Otherwise I don't add anything.
> 
> -Lisa


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## Kunsthure (Aug 2, 2010)

Eew! Disregard my previous statement then. And you're supposed to use that water for drinking and cooking? 

Shirakura food seems to be popular around here, in addition to the Ken's.

-Lisa


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## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

Most people supplement via food. There are other things like adding mineral rock to a tank. Shrimp will actually pick off the mineral rock, and get calcium and other things from it.

With that being said, the stuff on ebay is gross, and I wouldn't use it. There are high quality stuff, but you gotta look.


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## 9am53 (Jan 23, 2008)

ok cool, and this mineral rock is avalable at the LFS? 

My shrimp love to eat the freeze dried bloodworms I drop in sometimes, I just started a white worms colony recently, I haven't fed the white worms to the tank yet, but maybe all the dairy that the WW eat will translate to extra calcium for the shrimp too. Thanks for the help, shrimp are cool!


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## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

PM me about the mineral rock. But typically, it isn't available in LFS. It should be, but its not.


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## mossback (Aug 12, 2010)

I believe mineral rock is another name for montmorillonite clay. Nobody actually calls it montmorillonite clay because montmorillonite is unpronounceable. It's also known as koi clay -- search online for it to get a better idea of its properties and uses. I found some at a local koi shop. They were quite amused when I told them it was for dwarf shrimp, but they graciously took my money anyway. I'm sure it's also available via mail order.


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## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

It's not just Mont-whatever-Clay. It's a mixture of other stuff.

And I would not suggest using that clay by itself in a tank, unless in very low quantities. That clay will soak up nitrates, but when it reaches its max capacity in absorbing the nitrates, it will do a fast release of it into your water causing a nasty nitrate spike.


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## mossback (Aug 12, 2010)

Well, montmorillonite clay itself is a mixture of other stuff. It's a Hydrated Sodium Calcium Aluminum Magnesium Silicate Hydroxide, with a range of compositions given as: 
(Na, Ca)(Al, Mg)6(Si4O10)3(OH)6 - nH2O,
with both Fe and K as common impurities. 

So if montmorillonite clay starts you out with Al, Ca, H, Mg, Na, O, Si, probably Fe, and probably K, what additional other stuff does mineral rock bring to the party? 

And why would you want to use clay to soak up nitrates -- why not leave that to the plants & bacteria? And if it did soak up all the nitrates, what would cause it to do a fast release?

Frankly, I'm not sure what it does. I've never seen the shrimp nibble on it, but maybe they do. Or maybe it dissolves in the water column, although when I tried that particular experiment, I didn't notice any increase in TDS. All I know is that it seems to have a very good reputation in both koi culture and shrimp culture, especially with delicate varieties like CRS, and that it doesn't seem to have done my shrimp any harm. So I continue to use it, and they continue to molt, reproduce, etc.


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## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

It's a combination of multiple clays and vitamins from what I understand.

You would be surprised at the amount of people who use Mont clay for nitrate issues. Especially in Sulawesi tanks, as people use it to help control nitrate issues due to the sparse planting on a Sulawesi tank. They typically put it under the substrate.

I am not sure what causes the release of nitrates, but it is a known fact that once it has reached the peak absorption of nitrate, it will basically evacuate all the nitrates it has soaked up.

Do not ask me how this happens, I just know it does. A lot of people who have Sulawesi tanks, do not realize this occurs, and then will have a massive die off due to the nitrate spike after long periods of the tank being "fine". This occurs in Sulawesi tanks more often then not, because these tanks tend to be a lot less populated with plants, that soak up excess nitrates. 

If used sparsely, Mont clay is fine. It is when you use it in big amounts (i.e. layering it under substrate) with little flora, that it will become an issue later on. If you have enough flora, then you are fine, as the plants will absorb the nitrates that the Mont clay would.

The shrimp actually do, ingest the Mont Clay, or a little of it.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

I have used about every shrimp specific water additive on the market (they were given tobme to try from multiple sources) and have seen no visable change in my shrimp. That being said, my shrimp were already doing great. Now that being said you would have to be a fool to think that buying one specific "rare/exclusive/Asian" additive will magically allow you to keep certain shrimp and allow them to thrive in poor conditions. 

Clean soft water, good filtration and a good diet including a variety of prepared foods, specialized foods and natural/organic produce are paramount in keeping them happy. IMO.


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## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

I am not sure that anyone would think adding one "rare" Asian additive would make them have the ability to keep sensitive shrimp. If they did, then well, the word stupid comes to mind. lol

That being said, there are some people who may disagree with you and some who will agree. I think everyone's tank is subjective, and some things may work for one person, and not for another. So really, it is up to each individual to decide if they want to supplement or not.


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## Jaggedfury (Sep 11, 2010)

I used Liam's Rostrum Candy. It's good stuff I tell you. So get some from Liam! One bottle should last you a well over a year. Even if you have a 200gallon tank lol.

Did I mentioned it come with a little tiny dosing spoon also.


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## janftica (Jan 11, 2010)

I use monty clay in my shrimp tanks when I do a water change. I just sprinkle a pinch across the top of the water and let it sink and yes the shrimps do eat it! I has beneficial health properties to it, and many shrimp enthusiasts do add it to their tanks.

I get a particular brand only available in Canada which people can eat! You can also use it for wounds, soaking in a bathtub with, anything you want. It is also safe for all pets, including shrimps!

Not all clays are the same, some are denser than others...the one I use is very expensive, not like the pond clay you can buy for 10 bucks.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Don't take it personal Nikki. I never said that the suppliments hurt anything. I just feel that they are not necessary as long as you can provide proper requirements for them and if you cant the certainly aren't going to allow them to survive any better. People buy them because it makes them feel better, not the shrimp.


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## matti2uude (Mar 4, 2009)

9am53 said:


> Are these foods mail order only? I have never heard of them...maybe it's because I live in rural Canada... I'll see if I can eBay them, or just make my own.


You can get Ken's food from John in Canada. Here's John's website. 
http://www.johnsfishfood.com/


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## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

bsmith said:


> Don't take it personal Nikki. I never said that the suppliments hurt anything. I just feel that they are not necessary as long as you can provide proper requirements for them and if you cant the certainly aren't going to allow them to survive any better. People buy them because it makes them feel better, not the shrimp.



Oh, I wasn't taking it personal Brandon.  Was just making a statement in general


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

msnikkistar said:


> Oh, I wasn't taking it personal Brandon.  Was just making a statement in general


I just look at it like when you see infomercials that have a skin care product and mention it's European or like I saw a while back (super funny IMO) when they were selling these fake fire places that put out heat and say that their made by Quakers/amish and during the product introduction in the back ground there showing some homely people with glasses, beards and the Quaker/Amish hats tapping on the heater. Then at the end they tell you about the "strict" two heater per household limit as an Amush/Quaker rides down a dirt road on his horse drawn wagon! LOL!!!!

Like I said the stuff won't hurt but it won't perform miracles either.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

How about dosing CaNO3 to your plants as a fert. Can the shrimps pick up adequate Ca from this? I feed plenty of veggies anyway, but im just wondering.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

chad320 said:


> How about dosing CaNO3 to your plants as a fert. Can the shrimps pick up adequate Ca from this? I feed plenty of veggies anyway, but im just wondering.


Shrimps pick up the VAST majority of their Ca from eating foods. I'm sure it wouldn't hurt but then you always run the risk of jacking up the water parameters and causing issue with that.


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## snausage (Mar 8, 2010)

chad320 said:


> How about dosing CaNO3 to your plants as a fert. Can the shrimps pick up adequate Ca from this? I feed plenty of veggies anyway, but im just wondering.


Probably not a good idea because it will raise your TDS a lot more than just dosing Ca.


Mineral rocks are bentonite clay processed with some other minerals to hold them together and supposedly they have a little fish food in them as well. They really aren't all that essential and are a huge rip off IMO. 

Something like Mosura mineral plus is really all you'd need.


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## snausage (Mar 8, 2010)

msnikkistar said:


> I am not sure what causes the release of nitrates, but it is a known fact that once it has reached the peak absorption of nitrate, it will basically evacuate all the nitrates it has soaked up.
> 
> Do not ask me how this happens, I just know it does. A lot of people who have Sulawesi tanks, do not realize this occurs, and then will have a massive die off due to the nitrate spike after long periods of the tank being "fine". This occurs in Sulawesi tanks more often then not, because these tanks tend to be a lot less populated with plants, that soak up excess nitrates.
> 
> ...


Montmo/bentonite clays remove heavy metals and waste products from the water because they possess very high negative charges, which binds to and neutralizes anything with a highly positive charge. They also provide excellent surfaces for bacterial colonization.



bsmith said:


> I have used about every shrimp specific water additive on the market (they were given tobme to try from multiple sources) and have seen no visable change in my shrimp. That being said, my shrimp were already doing great. Now that being said you would have to be a fool to think that buying one specific "rare/exclusive/Asian" additive will magically allow you to keep certain shrimp and allow them to thrive in poor conditions.


The supplements are simply for molting problems and are the best way to give ro water a gH boost. That's it. There's lots of debate whether montmo clay and the like actually enhance the color of shrimp biologically or if they just tint the water and thus temporarily enhance coloration in a superficial manner.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

So would it make a difference if you use CaSO4 as opposed to CaNO3?


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

chad320 said:


> So would it make a difference if you use CaSO4 as opposed to CaNO3?


With the CaN03 you would ad roughly 14ppm of nitrated to 10 g of water with every .25 tsp. With CaS04 you would be adding nothing but Ca.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

bsmith said:


> With the CaN03 you would ad roughly 14ppm of nitrated to 10 g of water with every .25 tsp. With CaS04 you would be adding nothing but Ca.


I understand that protion of the difference of sulfite vs. nitrate. What im asking is, does one raise the TDS more so than the other? Or am I praying for a chemist to chime in here? Wheres Tom Barr at.....


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