# Breeding Amano Shrimp



## symstep (Apr 3, 2019)

So I have recently taken on the task of breeding Amano shrimp. I have had success however, the final tank that they are transferred into immediately after metamorphosis is riddled with seed shrimp, flat worms and so on. I am sure a lot of you would have seen this coming but since I am new to the aqua game, it was not anticipated. So I have two questions.
1- Anyone else breeding Amano shrimp?
2- Does anyone have a brilliant idea as to a fish that would be small enough not to eat a freshly morphed Amano shrimp, yet large enough to eat these crustaceans and other various critters that are ruining my view?
All constructive replies are appreciated.

As for breeding Amano shrimp... Here we go...
-First of course is identifying males and females. Males will have rows of perfect dots along the shell while Females will have a combination of dots and slashes.
- In terms of getting them to mate, idk... Its my understanding that with adequate water parameters, temperature and food they can't help but get romantic. Keep your NH3 - 0, NO2 - 0 and nitrates low with a nice temp around 78 degrees and i'm sure it will happen. Even at my LFS they have a 180 gallon planted display tank with 100+ amanos in there and every female I seen was pregnant. Btw asked if I could buy some of the pregnant females out of the display and they said no 
- When the female becomes pregnant (Buried) she glues them underneath her shell, You can't miss it. Initially they will be a very dark green color. After 5- 6 weeks they will become a much more light khaki color. Around the time of this khaki color you can even look very closely with a magnifying glass and see a tiny black eye for each individual egg. This is when her release date is right around the corner. So you need to isolate her into a holding tank to await her full release. My female released them in waves lasting a few days and I am pretty sure she is more inclined to do so at night. I am trusting that anyone who is actually considering trying this is experienced with fish keeping so they know the usual aspects of this process such as acclimating her carefully to the new tank(water parameters and temp), give her something to hide in, have circulation, plenty to eat and so on. Also do not be like other people I have seen and as soon as she is pregnant take her out. She can stay in her real/already established home for 4-5 weeks before isolation so she i'snt spending most of her life alone in a iso tank. ALSO DO NOT PUT HER IS SALT/BRACKISH WATER. Remember that your female is more important then the fry so take care of her.
- In the wild the Amano eggs hatch in freshwater streams and migrate into the ocean. They live in the ocean up until metamorphosis and then swim back up the brackish water to reach a fresh water stream as it's final resting place. This is the environment/process you are trying to recreate. 
- When the eggs the female released hatch, cut off the lights and shine a flashlight in. you will be able to see them clearly. They have a head and tail and honestly look like a animation that you would see of sperm. They are attracted to light so after staging the flashlight by the glass for some time go back and collect them with a syringe. Note.... Some of them do not go towards the light. I am not sure if this is because they have not hatched properly or have not had enough time etc. My first batch I would grab them anyway but I have a experiment in place this next time around to test the success rate with only the none light followers to compare to the light followers... Sorry I forget the Photo word to describe something being attracted to light. 
- You are capturing them into a syringe to transfer them into salt water. I believe they will not survive in fresh water for more then 2-5 days at this point so stay on top of it. DO NOT PUT THE MOTHER SHRIMP INTO SALT/BRACKISH WATER. There is various information about what salinity (ppt) to put the fry in. I and others that have had success have landed on 33-35 ppt. I try to stay at 34ppt. Have 24 hour light to grow algae for the fry to eat. Have circulation going but not to much so the fry can float to the algae and eat. Do not feed fish food.
- After 45-60 days the fry will start to morph. Once they are fully morphed they will not live in the salt water for more then a few days so stay on top of it. There are three ways to tell they have morphed. color, body type and behavior. 
1. Color - The healthy fry become orange in color but once they morph they change into the silver color of a amano shrimp
2. Body type - The fry are the head and tail mutant looking creatures but once they morph they no lie look exactly like .4 - .5 mm long amano shrimp, Legs and everything. If they look like amano shrimp, legs and everything but still have a little of the orange color to them then wait 24 hours because they are still in the process of morphing. 
3. Behavior - you will have noticed that the fry just kind of float around aimlessly but once they morph they are hanging out on the glass, Swimming quickly around the glass jar, crawling around and so on. Acting like a amano shrimp does 
It is important to make sure that you at least have Number 1 and 2 before transferring them to fresh water but also not taking to long to start the transition.
- Transitioning to freshwater is simple. In the wild once they morph I believe the swim back to fresh in a matter of hours so... Drip system. Drip water (Water taken from the tank they are going to be placed in) into a jar of the salt water they where living in to start slowly acclimating them for a span of 1-4 hours. Then you are finished.
- (Notes) As mentioned above they are very small after metamorphosis, So in fresh water tank sponge filter is a must. As for the fry they do create ammonia so keep up on good water parameters. Water evaporates but leaves salt behind so keep up on your salinity. Remember that the mother is more important so make sure to take care of her. There is information out there on this subject and even a few you tube videos I've seen that are pretty good including a guy named happy chappy. Id recommend watching these videos. 
Let me know what you think or better yet, how it goes.


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## Quint (Mar 24, 2019)

The flat worms would be my biggest concern. Have not tried it yet but this is suppose to work https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00E877CPW/?tag=8121-20

The daphnia are gonna compete for food I think but not sure. 

Anyhow good luck and congrats on having some success.


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

Would be great to hear how you've had success with the amanos!

As far as the critters go... any possible way to just remove the shrimp (depending on how many are in the tank?) then heat up to 104° for a few hours, then do massive water change and put shrimp back in? Or maybe just introducing a guppy (endlers seem to be best?) or other hunting fish to get the pests? (with no shrimp in tank during fish)


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## symstep (Apr 3, 2019)

Hello. Thank you for your reply and concern. I should have clarified in the original post that the flat worms are not planeria, they are rhabdocoela which I believe are harmless. Also the crustaceans are seed shrimp not daphnia, if that even makes a difference. I'm now under the impression that most tanks have these critters in them but the fish eat them quickly so we don't really see them. So I started the thread for the two questions asked in the original post. You are right about the competition for food but it hasn't been a concern yet. If i can figure out the right fish to balance this system then all will be perfect. Also thank you for the congrats, I really appreciate it. Let me know if you want to start breeding them yourself.

Bump:


Zoidburg said:


> Would be great to hear how you've had success with the amanos!
> 
> As far as the critters go... any possible way to just remove the shrimp (depending on how many are in the tank?) then heat up to 104° for a few hours, then do massive water change and put shrimp back in? Or maybe just introducing a guppy (endlers seem to be best?) or other hunting fish to get the pests? (with no shrimp in tank during fish)


Hello. I mean if I managed to get every seed shrimp out of there wouldn't they still return? Why I am thinking a crazy small fish that maxes out at a seed shrimp eating size but not a 50 day old amano. As for the breeding, if you would like me to write a detailed explanation on how to do so I will. Thank you for your reply. Let me know


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

Would be great just so there's more info out there on raising amanos as I know it's difficult! 

If you got rid of all the pests then there shouldn't be a way for them to get back in if you made sure not to reintroduce them. I can't imagine that they are harmful right now but if they bother you... might be worth getting rid of.


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## OpinionUnFiltered (Mar 12, 2019)

*Yes please to details*

Hi,
[this is an original hi, as in my first post - I haven't even written an intro message yet]
I've had very limited success breeding amanos, managed to keep 5 survivors out of my first batch, but haven't been able to replicate that "success". I keep losing them betwee days 5-20 or so. 

I think I've got the salinity nailed (able to keep it relatively stable, in a good range), but I'm not sure if I'm over feeding or underfeeding, or if I'm overcleaning or undercleaning.
So I would love it if you were willing to share what has worked for you. 

- What salinity?
- What size salt container/tank? 
- Source of your salt water (existing marine tank, fresh mixed, etc.)?
- Water changes?
- What do you feed the babies? How often? 

Thanks 1,000,000!


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## symstep (Apr 3, 2019)

Zoidburg said:


> Would be great just so there's more info out there on raising amanos as I know it's difficult!
> 
> If you got rid of all the pests then there shouldn't be a way for them to get back in if you made sure not to reintroduce them. I can't imagine that they are harmful right now but if they bother you... might be worth getting rid of.


I think the process from mother to end result they would get back in there but actually I am going to try this out to see. As for the breeding process I edited me original post for you and others that may want my take on it so you can check it out now. Keep in mind that it was done rather quickly but I think I got most of the details in there. Enjoy


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## KayakJimW (Aug 12, 2016)

Thanks so much for taking the time to share this info. Very cool and inspiring!


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## OpinionUnFiltered (Mar 12, 2019)

Thanks for the added info! 🙂
Between you and chappy, that’s 2 sources I’ve seen saying zero food and 24 hr light. 
But what if I’m using fresh-made saltwater (okay aged for some days, but not from a running system)? Even with the 24hr light, where does the algae come from? I could imagine it spontaneously arising after a few weeks (a la alchemists of old), but would there be enough early on? What’s your experience/method?
Re 24 hr light, I’m currently set up on the top shelf of my basement rack, and am reluctant to keep a light on all night, since I have other tanks with fish nearby, and I think they deserve some true dark thru middle of night. Thus far I’ve done 6am-9pm on the salt jar, which the nearby tanks tolerate well.


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## symstep (Apr 3, 2019)

KayakJimW said:


> Thanks so much for taking the time to share this info. Very cool and inspiring!


You are welcome  Thank you very much for your kind words. If you try it yourself let me know how it goes or ask any question you want. Good luck!


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## symstep (Apr 3, 2019)

OpinionUnFiltered said:


> Thanks for the added info! 🙂
> Between you and chappy, that’s 2 sources I’ve seen saying zero food and 24 hr light.
> But what if I’m using fresh-made saltwater (okay aged for some days, but not from a running system)? Even with the 24hr light, where does the algae come from? I could imagine it spontaneously arising after a few weeks (a la alchemists of old), but would there be enough early on? What’s your experience/method?
> Re 24 hr light, I’m currently set up on the top shelf of my basement rack, and am reluctant to keep a light on all night, since I have other tanks with fish nearby, and I think they deserve some true dark thru middle of night. Thus far I’ve done 6am-9pm on the salt jar, which the nearby tanks tolerate well.


You are very welcome! I am glad you are trying this out! It would be nice if we all can get this process nailed down and have less amano shrimp taken from the wild  Some of your questions where asked prior to me editing my post so I will touch on the ones that were not answered in the edit and I will try to stay organized...

1. Algae - I have another fish tank that has brown (diatom algae) and a soft green algae (not hair) in it. My girlfriend keeps saying its spirulina but I do not think it is haha. I simply steal a small amount of each one and add it manually. Takashi amano said diatom algae is imperative to a amano shrimp diet so I more focus on the brown. A visual reference I would say imagine the size of a nickel. 3/4 the nickel being covered with brown algae and the other 1/4 being covered with green (not hair) algae. That's the amount of algae I add. I will be doing experiments on RO vs Tap water soon but FYI tap water grows algae faster but keep in mind your tap water could end up being the reason for you lack of success. So maybe split a batch in half for your own experiment.

2. Feeding - What are you feeding them? Chappy did say he likes to toss some spirulina flakes in towards the end prior to metamorphosis and says they grow faster but that is at the end. I have not tried this and do not plan on it since I do not feel there is a need. Also for all i know my green algae I add is in fact a natural spirulina. I am new to the planted aquarium So I have a ridiculous amount to learn still. 

3. I literally run a 5 dollar desk lamp from walmart 24/7. It is in a different room from my 120 gallon. In terms of lighting, can you accomplish something more like this?

4. I use mason jars and pet smart bought marine salt.

5. Do you have circulation? If so lets talk container and source of circulation.

6. Water changes - Big subject for you because based on what you told me I wonder if ammonia is killing your fry. Of course except those five that were strong enough during that first batch. The amount of food that those fry eat are so small you hand feeding them may just be creating a spike and that's why you are losing them in 15-20 days? I did a 20-30% water change every 3-5 days to try to compensate for salinity fluctuation (plus adding water based on the line I made to compensate for evaporation), ammonia made from the fry and the seeded algae decomposing that I added until it took off. I forget what chappy did but I think his was way way less often but its possible he had his algae growth already prepared which would of course be ideal.

That's all for now. Look forward to your reply.


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## TDSapp (Feb 28, 2019)

symstep said:


> - You are capturing them into a syringe to transfer them into salt water. I believe they will not survive in fresh water for more then 2-5 days at this point so stay on top of it. DO NOT PUT THE MOTHER SHRIMP INTO SALT/BRACKISH WATER. There is various information about what salinity (ppt) to put the fry in. I and others that have had success have landed on 33-35 ppt. I try to stay at 34ppt. Have 24 hour light to grow algae for the fry to eat. Have circulation going but not to much so the fry can float to the algae and eat. Do not feed fish food.


I have read in a few places, your post included, that they shrimp breed better at around 78 degrees. Do you keep the water at 78 degrees in the holding tank (Birthing tank) as well? Do you also keep the fry tank at 78? I ask because I have a saltwater refractometer from my saltwater days. At 78 degrees I would have to keep the salt level at 1.024 to maintain 34.1ppm. 

I am not sure how to calculate the salt ppm besides doing it this way. If there is another way please let us know.

I have also read that around day 30 to drop the salinity to 15ppm (1.0113 specific gravity). Is this something you have been doing or thinking about doing? 




OpinionUnFiltered said:


> Re 24 hr light, I’m currently set up on the top shelf of my basement rack, and am reluctant to keep a light on all night, since I have other tanks with fish nearby, and I think they deserve some true dark thru middle of night. Thus far I’ve done 6am-9pm on the salt jar, which the nearby tanks tolerate well.


Might I suggest putting a hood on the light so it only shines into the tank, and then wrapping paper around the tank so the light does not bleed out to the other tanks. You could even wrap the tank with cloth held up with Velcro so you can remove it to view the tank when needed. That way you still get the 24 hours of light but your other fish can still sleep in the dark.


Tim


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## OpinionUnFiltered (Mar 12, 2019)

I like the wrapping idea. 
My setup includes a 1 gallon jar for the babies, and I also aim for 34-35ppt salinity.
The gallon jar, and reserve saltwater (for next change) are kept in a water bath. 76deg, roughly. 
I have been operating on the assumption that any algae or diatom that is from my fw tanks will immediately die in my salt jar, but now you've got me thinking on that. I certainly have some diatom deposits in a couple tanks, and adding a finger scrape would be quite easy.
In terms of feeding, I fed the first batch brewers yeast. Just the tiniest tip of a sharp knife daily. Can't recall if I included spirulina flake as they aged (need to keep better records). Since then I've tried some other options, and frankly have been messing with too many variables. So I know that's an issue. I got a bottle of seachem reef phyto, which has a wonderful nori-like smell, I can't imagine that's not good stuff for them. I also have just picked up a small container of NLS Reef Cell, which seems to be their version of golden pearls. And the powdered spirulina. I don't feel all these at once, and I feed super-sparingly. But I still think I might be overdoing it, based on the growth of what appears to be fungus on the bottom and sides of the jar. White slimy film/clumps. 
My salt is seachem Vibrant Sea. Always mixed and aged for at last 1-2 days before adding, with aeration. 
My last batch I changed about a litre (1 mason jar) every day or other day.
My lighting is an 18" t5HO above the water bath, so I think the power's there, to grow algae/diatoms. 
I also try to keep a bit of green marine hair algae in the rearing jar, just a pinch I got from the live rock tanks at the lfs. Mostly I got that cause I figured it would bring in some phytoplankton, in small amounts. 
I currently have a berried female in a separate jar, I'm expecting her to shed eggs any day. I think this time around I'll find a way to stick with 24hr light, daily water changes, and little-no feeding. I've been running the salt jar empty for almost 2 weeks now since I lost the last of the last batch, with 6am-9pm light, so it should be nice and ready for the larvae when I move them over. 
Here's hoping!
And thanks for all your help!


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

Following!


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## symstep (Apr 3, 2019)

TDSapp

First of all, nice concept idea of just trying to block the light!
The holding tank for the mother is actually at 75 degrees and my fry are kept at room temp. I actually used to make wine so I use that style hydrometer. lol
You are bringing up a great point about the temperature for the salt water. I have a index I printed out. To find this just google specific gravity ppt and refractive index. This should be consider while trying to create your salinity. 

As for dropping the salinity to 15ppt on day 30... I read that from one source but other sources and success stories did not suggest that so I didn't try. Maybe a few batches down the line I will try this as a experiment but I do not see how this resembles the amanos true habitat (based off of my understanding). Funny but if i remember correctly Takashi amano himself allegedly said he raised the fry from start to finish in 15ppt but no one I have seen has been able to do this well. I feel that this process is not nailed down so all info/ideas is appreciated to assist with future understanding. We must experiment haha. Have you attempted a batch yet?


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## symstep (Apr 3, 2019)

OpinionUnFiltered said:


> I like the wrapping idea.
> My setup includes a 1 gallon jar for the babies, and I also aim for 34-35ppt salinity.
> The gallon jar, and reserve saltwater (for next change) are kept in a water bath. 76deg, roughly.
> I have been operating on the assumption that any algae or diatom that is from my fw tanks will immediately die in my salt jar, but now you've got me thinking on that. I certainly have some diatom deposits in a couple tanks, and adding a finger scrape would be quite easy.
> ...


Yes his wrapping idea is great. Brought me the idea of just putting your set up in a open cardboard box. A lot of directions you can go with this concept.
As for your set up. You are going super hardcore with what you are putting in there. Seems like your trying to give those little amanos steroids! Also super hardcore on the water changes. Do you have circulation? Is the reef photo live plankton? Not sure what that is. Putting anything in there that is living other then algae will compete with food plus assist with water parameter fluctuations. I love that you are trying all these things and I am very curious if there is a balance of some of them that will help but as you said you are doing to much at once and don't really have a control and the one variable change to compare it with.
This next batch you are about to have please take half of the babies and go more of the route I have explained in original post. Seeded algae, Only 20-30 percent water change at most every 3-5 days and keep up on your salinity. When you described your creation of your salt water (''Always mixed and aged for at last 1-2 days before adding, with aeration'') it seemed like perfection btw. But very awesome man. I look forward to hearing about your experiences.

Bump:


varanidguy said:


> Following!


Thanks man! Glad to have you in here. All constructive ideas and info is welcome and appreciated


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Seeing this post has me thinking about giving Amano shrimp breeding a try again. I tried it a few years back and best I could get was again that 5-20 day range before they died off. A thought I was thinking through this post was the ammonia buildup aspect. Since salt tanks usually use live rock for their beneficial bacteria, I wonder how well it would work having a piece or two of some smaller fist sized live rock (without all the extra critters of course) to help keep the ammonia from building up. Plus I would imagine live rock to be a good source for some algae in the tank too. When I last tried this attempt at breeding Amano's I recall the salt creep was a PITA. I did use an air stone to keep the water circulating, however I think if I tried it now a trick I learned from L.R. Brets of using a plastic cap to act as some sort of bubble disperser, so hopefully that would help keep the air bubbles from making so much salt creep. Think now I'm gonna go buy one of those all in one 5 gallon tanks, so it has a cheap light and a lid on the tank. I'll probably also saran wrap the tank to keep evaporation to a minimum. I did recently get a 30 gallon plastic drum that I'll clean up to ensure nothing is in there to use for making one batch of saltwater to use for water changes. 

I now suddenly know what I'm going to use my gift cards for my local salt store that I've gotten from the local fish club I'm part of! LOL


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## OpinionUnFiltered (Mar 12, 2019)

symstep said:


> Do you have circulation? Is the reef photo live plankton? Not sure what that is. Putting anything in there that is living other then algae will compete with food plus assist with water parameter fluctuations. I love that you are trying all these things and I am very curious if there is a balance of some of them that will help but as you said you are doing to much at once and don't really have a control and the one variable change to compare it with.
> This next batch you are about to have please take half of the babies and go more of the route I have explained in original post. Seeded algae, Only 20-30 percent water change at most every 3-5 days and keep up on your salinity. When you described your creation of your salt water (''Always mixed and aged for at last 1-2 days before adding, with aeration'') it seemed like perfection btw. But very awesome man. I look forward to hearing about your experiences.



Thanks for the encouragement. I'm not quite ready space-wise to split my batches, but soon. 

Some answers to your other questions...
- The reef phyto is not live. Even if it were, it would be single-celled phytoplankton (plant type organisms), not consumers or predators. So not competitors. I've been thinking about starting a live phytoplankton culture for feeding the amano babies. But again, not yet. 

- Circulation is via a single airstone, bubbling quite gently. 

- I use a kitchen scale that makes saltwater mixing fast and easy. I weigh the RO water that goes into my mixing jar, and add 33g of reef salt per litre (1 litre being 1,000g - gotta love metric). So let's say I pour 2,743g of water (2.743L), I add 2.743 x 33g of salt = 90.5g. And I use a refractometer for monitoring salinity, which reads both ppt and specific gravity. I think it's based on 77 or 78 degrees, so no adjusting there. 

- Another trick for maintaining salinity is finding jars with lids that sit inside the rim of the jar. I use ikea jars with the rubber seal on a glass lid (like pantry jars for sugar or flour). The glass lid lets all the light in for the algae, and yes the lid is propped up for the airline, but all the condensation on the lid drips back into the jar. 



I think the overfeeding is just classic inexperience and lack of confidence (due to inexperience LOL). I see babies dying, and don't know why. Salinity is in the right range, so it's either foul water or lack of food. So change water, and add enough food that I can cross starvation off the list. I just don't have the confidence to not feed them. But this time around I have been running the salt jar for a few weeks with some thread like green algae, and I'm more confident that the food they need is there. So I'll change to 24hr light, cut out the feeding, and change less water. All I need now is for the adult female to release her batch.


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## symstep (Apr 3, 2019)

chayos00 said:


> Seeing this post has me thinking about giving Amano shrimp breeding a try again. I tried it a few years back and best I could get was again that 5-20 day range before they died off. A thought I was thinking through this post was the ammonia buildup aspect. Since salt tanks usually use live rock for their beneficial bacteria, I wonder how well it would work having a piece or two of some smaller fist sized live rock (without all the extra critters of course) to help keep the ammonia from building up. Plus I would imagine live rock to be a good source for some algae in the tank too. When I last tried this attempt at breeding Amano's I recall the salt creep was a PITA. I did use an air stone to keep the water circulating, however I think if I tried it now a trick I learned from L.R. Brets of using a plastic cap to act as some sort of bubble disperser, so hopefully that would help keep the air bubbles from making so much salt creep. Think now I'm gonna go buy one of those all in one 5 gallon tanks, so it has a cheap light and a lid on the tank. I'll probably also saran wrap the tank to keep evaporation to a minimum. I did recently get a 30 gallon plastic drum that I'll clean up to ensure nothing is in there to use for making one batch of saltwater to use for water changes.
> 
> I now suddenly know what I'm going to use my gift cards for my local salt store that I've gotten from the local fish club I'm part of! LOL


First off your 125 gallon is beautiful! Very very nice work!

Glad you are thinking about giving the breeding another try. Unfortunately it is a common thing for most people to lose them all around 15-20 days. I feel like ammonia has to be the main reason. I am suspicious that they may not even be eating for the first 5 days so people hand feeding plus once they start creating ammonia themselves a spike would fit this timeline? I like the idea of having beneficial bacteria in there but I believe it cant live in light and if you make a substrate somewhat deep then I would fear that some babies would get lost down in there lmao but one or two very porous rocks already cycled may be a nice addition for each jar. I would rather just not trust that tho. love the saran wrap idea as long as you have a portion still open. Very cool you are going to buy a new setup, I now had the thought it may be nice for some of you to see my set up so I will post here soon.


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## symstep (Apr 3, 2019)

OpinionUnFiltered said:


> Thanks for the encouragement. I'm not quite ready space-wise to split my batches, but soon.
> 
> Some answers to your other questions...
> - The reef phyto is not live. Even if it were, it would be single-celled phytoplankton (plant type organisms), not consumers or predators. So not competitors. I've been thinking about starting a live phytoplankton culture for feeding the amano babies. But again, not yet.
> ...


Yeah your salinity work is better than mine haha the salinity can't be the problem. As for your new plan I DIG IT! Try to get some brown diatom in there as well and trust that if you see algae in there then they are fine. 20-30 percent water changes every few days, your circulation seems great and you got your eye on the prize haha. Thank you very much for contributing to the thread and I can't wait to hear what happens. Good luck!


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## symstep (Apr 3, 2019)

Had the thought to share a picture of my set up. This is a picture I took after cleaning everything while waiting on another batch to begin so it is not a ''during process'' picture but you get the point


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## Jamo33 (Feb 18, 2014)

I think it needs to be noted that this thread is amazing. I doubt I will ever be able to, or even attempt to breed amanos, but if I do I will be coming to this thread for sure. That being said, I have two new tanks being set up and Amanos were on the purchase list already.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

symstep said:


> First off your 125 gallon is beautiful! Very very nice work!
> 
> Glad you are thinking about giving the breeding another try. Unfortunately it is a common thing for most people to lose them all around 15-20 days. I feel like ammonia has to be the main reason. I am suspicious that they may not even be eating for the first 5 days so people hand feeding plus once they start creating ammonia themselves a spike would fit this timeline? I like the idea of having beneficial bacteria in there but I believe it cant live in light and if you make a substrate somewhat deep then I would fear that some babies would get lost down in there lmao but one or two very porous rocks already cycled may be a nice addition for each jar. I would rather just not trust that tho. love the saran wrap idea as long as you have a portion still open. Very cool you are going to buy a new setup, I now had the thought it may be nice for some of you to see my set up so I will post here soon.


Thanks! Yeah thinking about it now, I do wonder if it was ammonia. I think when I do it again I'm going to get one of those seachem ammonia detectors to also get a quick visual if things are going bad. I had a 5g bucket of Daphnia growing and just yesterday discovered I killed the bucket, did an ammonia test and it was through the roof. So, next time I'll add some biomedia in it to see if that works at all, kinda like the live rock idea for it's BB.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

I finally found the page I had printed off from when I first tried to raise Amano babies. I didn't have the greenwater nor did I go with the concentrated SW either. Just stuck to the 34ppm and used store bought plankton mixes. https://lovefishtank.com/amano-shrimp-keeping-breeding/


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## symstep (Apr 3, 2019)

Jamo33 said:


> I think it needs to be noted that this thread is amazing. I doubt I will ever be able to, or even attempt to breed amanos, but if I do I will be coming to this thread for sure. That being said, I have two new tanks being set up and Amanos were on the purchase list already.


Thank you very much! I appreciate you saying that.
Glad you have them on the list, I personally think they are fantastic. I bought ten from a LFS to go into my 125g and once I released them into the tank they went to the bottom and immediately went to work. They are awesome. But if that day comes where you have a mother and you are interested in trying then you should definitely go for it.


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## symstep (Apr 3, 2019)

chayos00 said:


> I finally found the page I had printed off from when I first tried to raise Amano babies. I didn't have the greenwater nor did I go with the concentrated SW either. Just stuck to the 34ppm and used store bought plankton mixes. https://lovefishtank.com/amano-shrimp-keeping-breeding/


I went and checked out that page. Very interesting saying that switching off the light kills some... Have I avoided this by chance due to needing as much algae growth as possible? Or is this another misconception? I think I will try to experiment with this. Also again with the low ppt and green water haha. Id like to know if anyone really has success that way. Thank you for posting that link, I feel like I didn't ever come across that one. Remember when you do your next attempt tho to not underestimate algae for the diet. Also I wouldn't turn out the light until we get that figured out


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

symstep said:


> I went and checked out that page. Very interesting saying that switching off the light kills some... Have I avoided this by chance due to needing as much algae growth as possible? Or is this another misconception? I think I will try to experiment with this. Also again with the low ppt and green water haha. Id like to know if anyone really has success that way. Thank you for posting that link, I feel like I didn't ever come across that one. Remember when you do your next attempt tho to not underestimate algae for the diet. Also I wouldn't turn out the light until we get that figured out


Yeah I kept the lights on in an attempt to get the algae growing crazy. But yeah interesting to see all the things that people do suggest for getting things to work for these guys. 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## mach_six (Sep 12, 2005)

I had one successful batch of 20 last year and will attempt again once it gets warmer to avoid having to heat it.

The post success attempts have been poor and even using the same methods did not yield the same results. I used diatoms only and live phyto nannochloropsis (sp) and noticed that overly green water usually ends up with losses, I don't feed the tank either but the 24 hour and live phyto usually grows too quickly. I perform a water change to thin the algae. The post batches were more than 20. As they get into the later stages, you don't need 24 hour lighting from the batch that survived.

I had created a thread and video documented the larval growth from hatching to as far as I could get before they died. I want to eventually finish it up and document the full life cycle from hatching to post. I have most of their life cycle documented from my iPhone but want to get the close up view of full life cycle with my DSLR setup 

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/.../1282295-amano-shrimp-larva-hatching-egg.html

Just reading what people are doing, it isn't something that I'm doing differently so I just wonder how Chappy has such great repeatable results and especially for not having any live phyto. I can't even say having a good amount of diatoms is an indicator you'll succeed since I haven't been able to replicate it. The post success batches I had were much larger like over 100s. I'm questioning the 1000s of eggs as many claim, maybe hundred tops. I only get hundreds with multiple females berried at the same time.


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## symstep (Apr 3, 2019)

mach_six said:


> I had one successful batch of 20 last year and will attempt again once it gets warmer to avoid having to heat it.
> 
> The post success attempts have been poor and even using the same methods did not yield the same results. I used diatoms only and live phyto nannochloropsis (sp) and noticed that overly green water usually ends up with losses, I don't feed the tank either but the 24 hour and live phyto usually grows too quickly. I perform a water change to thin the algae. The post batches were more than 20. As they get into the later stages, you don't need 24 hour lighting from the batch that survived.
> 
> ...


Congrats on having some success and thanks for coming to the thread! I checked out the video you have of the egg hatching and it was pretty cool to see it that clearly. So to clarify are you saying that the batch you had 20 survivors, you did not have 24 hour lighting? Assuming that you are referring to the topic of the fry dying if the lights are turned off (lights off, lights out haha). Also I am confused because it seems like you say you had the 20 survivors and batches afterwards was poor but then say the later batches were better? Or when you say more 100s you are meaning hatched eggs and not morphed shrimp? Anyways I completely agree with you on the egg count, Have read that the mother can hold thousands yet my mother looks pretty filled underneath and its like 300 so... Maybe we misread or have smaller shrimp? Also have you tried without live phyto? Again thank you for sharing the eggs hatching, I enjoyed watching that.


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## OpinionUnFiltered (Mar 12, 2019)

My one successful go-round (I use 'success' sparingly here, because it was a highly limited success) I did not have 24hr light. I had good survival up to day 20-30 or so, and was feeding pinhead-sized amounts of brewers yeast, and lights were 6am-9pm, or so. I suspect the losses I encountered with that batch were related to salinity, and foul water. 
Anyone else observe in Chappy's vids that his salt jars were quite messy? There seemed to be lots of detritus on the bottom of his salt jar. 
Another thing that isn't discussed is whether the salt jars/tanks need to be a bit mature. I'd hazard to guess that it's not a _requirement _(because I had that limited success with a newly-set up jar), but I would also imagine that some level of maturity in those jars would be very beneficial. For those of you that have done this more than once, do you keep the same salt jar running, or start fresh with each batch?
Here's some quick pics of my setup. It's shockingly different from Symstep's. 
Mach_Six you might recognize these from that other forum. 
The 3 jars in the water bath tank are (left to right): 1 gal salt jar for zoes; "experiment" salt jar with a bunch of algae from the live rock tank at lfs (1L mason jar, no air), reserve saltwater jar, for next water change (1L mason jar, lid to prevent evap).


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## mach_six (Sep 12, 2005)

symstep said:


> Congrats on having some success and thanks for coming to the thread! I checked out the video you have of the egg hatching and it was pretty cool to see it that clearly. So to clarify are you saying that the batch you had 20 survivors, you did not have 24 hour lighting? Assuming that you are referring to the topic of the fry dying if the lights are turned off (lights off, lights out haha). Also I am confused because it seems like you say you had the 20 survivors and batches afterwards was poor but then say the later batches were better? Or when you say more 100s you are meaning hatched eggs and not morphed shrimp? Anyways I completely agree with you on the egg count, Have read that the mother can hold thousands yet my mother looks pretty filled underneath and its like 300 so... Maybe we misread or have smaller shrimp? Also have you tried without live phyto? Again thank you for sharing the eggs hatching, I enjoyed watching that.


Sorry, I meant the collection of the larvae was much larger in later batches but they didn't survive.

It doesn't make sense to me that 24/7 light is really necessary other than to maintain your algae growth, they don't have 24/7 light in nature. I'm guessing in containers there's too little water movement possibly?


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## symstep (Apr 3, 2019)

OpinionUnFiltered said:


> My one successful go-round (I use 'success' sparingly here, because it was a highly limited success) I did not have 24hr light. I had good survival up to day 20-30 or so, and was feeding pinhead-sized amounts of brewers yeast, and lights were 6am-9pm, or so. I suspect the losses I encountered with that batch were related to salinity, and foul water.
> Anyone else observe in Chappy's vids that his salt jars were quite messy? There seemed to be lots of detritus on the bottom of his salt jar.
> Another thing that isn't discussed is whether the salt jars/tanks need to be a bit mature. I'd hazard to guess that it's not a _requirement _(because I had that limited success with a newly-set up jar), but I would also imagine that some level of maturity in those jars would be very beneficial. For those of you that have done this more than once, do you keep the same salt jar running, or start fresh with each batch?
> Here's some quick pics of my setup. It's shockingly different from Symstep's.
> ...


No man you have had success! But how many fry did you have in the batch that had 20 survivors? I am regardless going to experiment here at some point with this light claim, especially since maybe you would have had more survivors if you didn't turn off the light? I love your set up, it is perfect. I had my jars in a lined bin during the winter but I hated it so since winter is over it has been put away. You gave me the idea to just buy a 10 gallon to temp control in the winter tho, Will be much more convenient then what I was using even tho it was free. Let me ask what exactly happens to salt water the more it matures?

Bump:


mach_six said:


> Sorry, I meant the collection of the larvae was much larger in later batches but they didn't survive.
> 
> It doesn't make sense to me that 24/7 light is really necessary other than to maintain your algae growth, they don't have 24/7 light in nature. I'm guessing in containers there's too little water movement possibly?


Ok but still cool you got 20! But I know right, My first thought is that they obviously experience night in the wild but then I thought that maybe the reflection of the sun off the moon still provides a certain amount of par? So I just have no idea if turning off the light decrease chances. We will eventually figure it out.


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

symstep said:


> I did a 20-30% water change every 3-5 days to try to compensate for salinity fluctuation (plus adding water based on the line I made to compensate for evaporation), ammonia made from the fry and the seeded algae decomposing that I added until it took off.





symstep said:


> Seeded algae, Only 20-30 percent water change at most every 3-5 days and keep up on your salinity.





symstep said:


> 20-30 percent water changes every few days, …


 What is the reason for limiting water changes so much? If it was fish fry I would be changing water daily and as much as possible to avoid NH3 poisoning.


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## OpinionUnFiltered (Mar 12, 2019)

symstep said:


> No man you have had success! But how many fry did you have in the batch that had 20 survivors?


I think you're mixing me up with Mach_six. I had 5 that survived to metamorphosis (and all were successfully returned to freshwater). 



Edward your question about water changes is a good one. I'm not advocating fewer water changes, but there are two mitigating factors, IMO. These zoes are incredibly small, so I would imagine than ammonia buildup would be very slow*. Also, the zoes being so small - and generally spending their time floating in the water column - means special measures are required to not suck them up during water changes. So a bit of a PITA. But, it's certainly one more thing that I'd like to resolve, over time. On paper, more changes should be better. 



* I just did some rabbit-hole diving on the web, and have realized how much more toxic ammonia will be in saltwater vs fresh (ie how much of the total ammonia is toxic ammonium). In a saltwater tank, most/all of the ammonia will be toxic ammonium, as opposed to much much smaller proportions in most planted tanks. I also read a suggestion on the Spruce https://www.thesprucepets.com/ammonia-toxicity-reduction-in-aquariums-2924171 that simply changing water is NOT the answer, as it would be in fresh. First neutralize/remove ammonia, then change water. Hmmm.


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## symstep (Apr 3, 2019)

Edward said:


> What is the reason for limiting water changes so much? If it was fish fry I would be changing water daily and as much as possible to avoid NH3 poisoning.


You didn't have to quote it three times lmao  But honestly just for the simple reason of everyday water changes is not what we have seen for success. For one If you are not putting anything in the water then NH3 is limited to only what the fry produce and what algae doesn't take. The guy that has more claimed success than anyone so far did 25% every two weeks. I've had success doing every 3-5 days so that establishes a range for people who are not having success or haven't tried at all. I said "no more than" to the future scientist because I feel he was going a little crazy on all fronts and trying to slow him down, just in case it is possible that the water you ad has a slight difference in salinity and temp etc. very slight but maybe noticeable for a super small fry. You exposing them to a slight difference everyday may be exhausting for them opposed to it slowly changing. Or there isn't a difference. Or it would be better and failing is due to other variables. Idk this isn't nailed down and a lot of experiments need to be done. I am not to opposed of course to more water changes like I am adding this plankton that everyone talks about. But again saying if you are not having success at all and not doing what I did then try what I did. Sorry wasn't a easy answer for my thinking. Appreciate the contribution to the thread and I am glad that this specific aspect has been clarified


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## symstep (Apr 3, 2019)

OpinionUnFiltered said:


> I think you're mixing me up with Mach_six. I had 5 that survived to metamorphosis (and all were successfully returned to freshwater).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah I definitely know you by name but I did mix up how many survivors you have had, sorry about that haha It's been a lot keeping up with this plus my usual schedule.
As for the the water change, I was aware when carbon dioxide levels increase/oxygen decreases the ph drops and makes ammonia less harmful but never read into this happening with salt water from "buffering". But it seems like this has something to do with you saying the salt water matures?


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## mach_six (Sep 12, 2005)

The successful batch I had of 20~ was a 95% success rate. I had only manage to capture a small amount and and the only death was because I accidentally drop one into another tank below it during the FW transition.


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## OpinionUnFiltered (Mar 12, 2019)

symstep said:


> Yeah I definitely know you by name but I did mix up how many survivors you have had, sorry about that haha It's been a lot keeping up with this plus my usual schedule.
> As for the the water change, I was aware when carbon dioxide levels increase/oxygen decreases the ph drops and makes ammonia less harmful but never read into this happening with salt water from "buffering". But it seems like this has something to do with you saying the salt water matures?


I think maybe you're inferring a single conversation, but I'm describing 2 things: 1) ammonia, and 2) jar/tank maturity.

1) 
[errors have been corrected by writer - how embarrassing :crying:]
I'm finding as I figure this out that it's backwards from how I usually think about (at least in my mind, which is sort of backwards to start with, so no longer sure which way we're facing LOL). In our/my fw tanks, more CO2 reduces pH, and more of the TAN (total ammonia nitrogen - ie what the master test kit measures) becomes less-toxic NH4+ ammonium. As pH rises (and temp), the proportion of TAN that is NH3 more-toxic ammonia increases. But as I read it yesterday (look at me, the instant expert), at the high pH levels that are typical in saltwater, most/all of the TAN will be NH3. 

Being rooted in the fw world, I'm used to taking the liquid ammonia test readings with a grain of salt (pun intended). I'm less interested in TAN results, and more interested in combining that with temp and pH to know what NH3 levels are, and if it's approaching 0.05ppm. But what I'm getting here (ie with respect to the zoe saltwater jars) is that ANY ammonia will be bad, since most/all will be NH3. So my guess is that my prior overfeeding is way more important than I had thought. Bad me. 

So now I think I have a better understanding of why little to no feeding is a big part of the success that some have had.
Second part of this part of the ammonia puzzle (for me) is that IF you have ammonia, then UNLIKE fw world, water changes aren't necessarily the go-to solution. As I understand it, ammonia, like CO2, will lower pH. Meaning some of the NH3 coverts back to NH4+. Changing water will restore pH to higher level, causing some of the NH4+ remaining in tank to covert to NH3. So bad. The recommended course of action here is to neutralize/remove the ammonia first, then change water. 

A prior contributor to this thread mentioned using the seachem alert badge to detect ammonia, and I think that's a bang-on suggestion, because it ONLY detects the NH3. I had previously bought some Poly-Fill as an early attempt to lower P04s in my planted tanks. Still have some, and I'm told it will bind the ammonium in the salt jar, so I'll likely put a tiny square in if I start seeing losses. 

2) 

Your second question, about maturing saltwater. I don't think that aging straight (newly mixed) saltwater more than 24 hrs is necessary. But the jar I will be keeping the zoes in has been running for maybe 6 weeks now, and has a more mature or seasoned community of algae, which I hope will be a good thing. 

Whew.


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

Reference
_*“Freshly prepared synthetic seawater is very caustic (capable of burning or corroding), so it will need some time to “cure” before it can be used in your aquarium. Allow the newly mixed seawater to sit in your container for a minimum of 24 hours before use. During that time, place an airstone or powerhead in the water to circulate and aerate the mixture.”*_
Reference

At first this doesn’t look serious but once the numbers are revealed (theoretically), it is fairly reasonable to age and aerate freshly made saltwater. Here are few examples;

Red Sea Coral Pro Salt, SPS Frags, 35 ppt, 12 dKH:
11.6 pH fresh and degassed CO2
8.0 - 8.1 pH aged and aerated
Reference

Red Sea Salt, Marine Fish, 30 ppt, 7 dKH:
11.6 pH fresh and degassed CO2
7.7 - 7.9 pH aged and aerated
Reference

I think better survival rates may be achieved in larger water volume for stability, more actively growing algae for waste removal and more aeration for low pH value. Increasing nitrogen levels from waste stimulate faster algae growth which creates higher demand for CO2. This higher demand for CO2 can let pH go up which converts less harmful NH4 to toxic NH3 when aeration is insufficient. 

Chart


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## OpinionUnFiltered (Mar 12, 2019)

Edward thank you for the added information and reference. In re-reading my post above yours (mine is #38) I realize that I have - not for the first time - mixed up which form of ammonia is toxic. I got the conversion part right, but not the toxicity. Oy. 
I will edit my post above in a way that it's clear what has been corrected.


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## symstep (Apr 3, 2019)

OpinionUnFiltered said:


> I think maybe you're inferring a single conversation, but I'm describing 2 things: 1) ammonia, and 2) jar/tank maturity.
> 
> 1)
> [errors have been corrected by writer - how embarrassing :crying:]
> ...


Whew is right my man! Yes was combining the two wondering if before the salt water matures the ph may be higher in addition to the water change increasing ph? You are the instant expert/future scientist haha very impressed that the water change topic (which was a great question) that I had landed on was more of intuition and you found the exact science to it. Your contribution to this thread has been tremendous. 

1- I think you got it man. I think the key is to not put anything into the water that you don't have to. Also you have to consider that algae will take in ammonia as well, by the end of a batch I can't see through the jars anymore and have to look through the top. I am interested in the Poly-Fill you are talking about tho, If you try that please let me know what happens. Let me make a suggestion tho, Please get more jars. Then you can try a few of the million things you want to try while having a control  Also there may be weaker fry that will not survive regardless, So just because you start counting less in your jar does not mean its time to react. just try to syringe the dead out before they decompose.
Another thing is temp. I assume you are keeping your jars at 78 degrees yes? Is it possible that this is to high for the fry? since temp raises ph?

2 - I just let it sit for a day to make sure all the salt melted and the gas exchange had its way with the water... Eye roll.

Bump:


Edward said:


> Reference
> _*“Freshly prepared synthetic seawater is very caustic (capable of burning or corroding), so it will need some time to “cure” before it can be used in your aquarium. Allow the newly mixed seawater to sit in your container for a minimum of 24 hours before use. During that time, place an airstone or powerhead in the water to circulate and aerate the mixture.”*_
> Reference
> 
> ...


Very nice Edward! So before the water matures the ph is higher. So a huge no would be adding freshly made salt water to a batch of fry that have been existing in a jar already.


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## symstep (Apr 3, 2019)

OpinionUnFiltered said:


> Edward thank you for the added information and reference. In re-reading my post above yours (mine is #38) I realize that I have - not for the first time - mixed up which form of ammonia is toxic. I got the conversion part right, but not the toxicity. Oy.
> I will edit my post above in a way that it's clear what has been corrected.


It's all good man! you are crushing it. I have a question for you tho. Wtf do we call these shrimp babies? I've heard Fry, Zoes, Larvae, shrimplets and more. What is the correct name?


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

I went to look at tanks last night at the local big box fish store. I didn't any any tanks, as I was looking at the pre-packaged AIO setups, most had lids that were wide open for their specific HOB filters, plus three tiny little LED's, which I would suspect wouldn't be enough to grow some proper algae. I then saw a T8 lid light combo that was the same price as the AIO tanks and thought to myself I might just get a 10g tank and then a glass lid and just find a small 18" T8 light fixture at HD or Lowes and DIY it all. Not sure still debating about this. 5g or 10g, at least a 10g would give more algae room to grow and also being a larger water volume more room to maintain a more stable body of water. Also a bit more space for a few pieces of live rock and some macros and or micro algae. 

10g tank - $14
10g Lid - $13
Light - $??

AIO Tanks
5.5g - $40
10g - $65

I'm now wondering if I should just attempt to try my spare Finnex Planted+ 16" light on this SW setup to see how well that would grow algae. Or something SW specific.


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## cl3537 (Jan 28, 2019)

Edward said:


> Salt_Mix_Reef_Salt_Mix-Red_Sea-RS11055-FISM-vi.html"]Reference[/URL]
> 
> I think better survival rates may be achieved in larger water volume for stability,


This for sure. Smaller as a %water changes. Whats wrong with a 5 Gallon cycled (foam on air bubbler) plastic container for larvae?



> more actively growing algae for waste removal


Why not grow it beforehand like have quite a bit from a month before in an aged container?


> and more aeration for low pH value. Increasing nitrogen levels from waste stimulate faster algae growth which creates higher demand for CO2. This higher demand for CO2 can let pH go up which converts less harmful NH4 to toxic NH3 when aeration is insufficient.


Why is CO2 even discussed here? Not going to add CO2 to larvae tank??

General questions for everyone. Why aren't you testing your larvae tank and measuring Ammonia? If more than 0.25 why not do water changes with same/similar temperaure TDS/kH water. Even daily 10 - 20% changes?
I'm not a shrimp breeder but this thread is so interesting and creates possibilities, I'd like to figure out these questions before I would attempt to breed amanos.

I wish more shrimp keepers were meticulous about documenting their setup and water parameters so we could get more repeatable results. I gotta think 4 - 5 gallons of aged water with a decent amount of algae and bb, it can't be too hard to keep low/0 ammonia especially if you aren't adding any.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Just realized I have a 6g Fluval Edge in a closet..... Now I wonder if I can get some SW rocks that would fit the mouth of that tank. LOL


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

Cl3537
This is not about FW but SW and nobody was discussing CO2 injection here. Healthy saltwater pH relies on atmospheric CO2, see post #39. This CO2 source is so weak it can take days of aeration to reach the final pH. 

Remember you had difficulties understanding how I can have 1.55 pH drop with 13 ccm CO2 and 1.6 bps on 125 gallon aquarium? That was CO2 injection and it still takes over two days to get there. And then it remains stable.

symstep
The chart in post #39 demonstrates how critical pH is in terms of NH4 and NH3 concentrations. I think the selected dry sea salt product and specific gravity plays a significant role. The salt NaCl is harvested from ocean and then manufacturers add elements Ca, Mg, K, CO3 etc., so not all products are the same. For the purpose of raising shrimp larvae the most important is alkalinity. Noticed the difference between Red Sea Coral Pro Salt SPS Frags 35 ppt, 12 dKH and Red Sea Salt Marine Fish 30 ppt, 7 dKH? They don’t have the same ppt to KH ratio. When Red Sea Coral Pro Salt is mixed to 30 ppt it gives 10 dKH. But Red Sea Salt Marine Fish at the same 30 ppt is only 7 dKH. 

I think the larvae should be raised in long term stable system in terms of algae and BB, and in lower ppt, lower KH and pH monitored.


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## symstep (Apr 3, 2019)

Edward said:


> Cl3537
> This is not about FW but SW and nobody was discussing CO2 injection here. Healthy saltwater pH relies on atmospheric CO2, see post #39. This CO2 source is so weak it can take days of aeration to reach the final pH.
> 
> Remember you had difficulties understanding how I can have 1.55 pH drop with 13 ccm CO2 and 1.6 bps on 125 gallon aquarium? That was CO2 injection and it still takes over two days to get there. And then it remains stable.
> ...


Edward and cl3537.
Seems like you have history?
But yes everyone should learn the difference between NH3 and NH4. I learned that is a reason why its not as dangerous as you think to ship fish across the country. They deplete the oxygen and raise C02 levels which decreases PH making NH4>NH3. So you need to be careful and quick when you open the bag and introduce oxygen and release that built up CO2. 


I get what you are putting down Edward. You have me trying to find a report on my salt I have been using but cant seem to find it  Just want to really point out that the salt water does really need to sit for at lest 24 hours so don't add newly made water to the fry. Also this has me thinking... takshi amano allegedly said the fry should be in 17ppt. I have not come across anything on anyone being able to get success with this. Is it possible it's because he didn't do it himself, He just thought it should work because it works out that way on paper? But I have another batch about to happen in a week so is there a better way to test for dkh besides a 50 dollar contraption? Or I will just dump the salt I have now and go with the Red Sea Salt Marine Fish and hope that this change doesn't prevent success.

Bump:


chayos00 said:


> Just realized I have a 6g Fluval Edge in a closet..... Now I wonder if I can get some SW rocks that would fit the mouth of that tank. LOL


Excellent you are thinking about going for it. Also glad you found your six gallon. I would normally direct you more into what set up to have but now I am thinking just go for it and lets so what happens lmao. I would like to see how the SW rocks work out so please be careful about what you do so we can speculate later  GL!


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## symstep (Apr 3, 2019)

OpinionUnFiltered and Edward, My science guys. 
New batch coming up. 
Thinking Four Large mason jars
All jars having 24 hour light and having Red Sea Salt Marine Fish to use the info that Edward provided. Kept at room temp (I am suspicious to temp control especially at 78 degrees but will check room temp twice a day).
Jar 1- 34ppt, 20-30% WC daily
Jar 2- 34ppt, 20-30% WC every 3-5 days
Jar 3- 34ppt, 20-30% WC every 2 weeks (Like chappy even tho it hurts)
Jar 4- 30ppt, 20-30% WC every 3-5 days

Thoughts or opinions? Changes I should make to this round? I am focusing on water changes this round. Salinity next and then maybe temp.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

symstep said:


> OpinionUnFiltered and Edward, My science guys.
> New batch coming up.
> Thinking Four Large mason jars
> All jars having 24 hour light and having Red Sea Salt Marine Fish to use the info that Edward provided. Kept at room temp (I am suspicious to temp control especially at 78 degrees but will check room temp twice a day).
> ...


Jar 2 and 4 have a difference of 4ppt of salt, why not try the 17ppt of salt in one of the jars, or unless you have a 5th jar you can split the baby amano's into?

Also as I know I have amano's in my 125g tank, I was looking the amano's I can see over and they all look like they are males.... Guess time to go hunt down some more so I can get a few more ladies so I can start testing as well!


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## OpinionUnFiltered (Mar 12, 2019)

Regarding salinity from T. Amano’s original work, I read one theory that there could be multiple strains or races of wild amanos, that are accustomed to slightly varying salinities. So his that worked out at 15-17 ppt might have been from a different population than what currently makes up most of the captive/sold stock. @symstep my suggestion if you want to run trials is to do two treatments or setups only, each replicated twice. So, stick with 34ppt, and do 2 jars daily, 2 others @5d. 
Personally, I think having 4 separate treatments is making 4x as much work when it comes to testing salinity, and changes. Or 2x as much if I do as I suggest and split a batch anyways. But for me, I’d if I do split my next batch, I’ll treat both the same. My research days are long behind me, and I’m happy to now stick with intuition, and trial and error. 😉


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## cl3537 (Jan 28, 2019)

symstep said:


> OpinionUnFiltered and Edward, My science guys.
> New batch coming up.
> Thinking Four Large mason jars
> All jars having 24 hour light and having Red Sea Salt Marine Fish to use the info that Edward provided. Kept at room temp (I am suspicious to temp control especially at 78 degrees but will check room temp twice a day).
> ...


I'd stick with all 34ppt, but use a larger container. I would test Ammonia and Nitrite every 5 days.
I'd also use one container seeded with algae and aged water for a few weeks, grow it by the window sill.


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## OpinionUnFiltered (Mar 12, 2019)

We’re all talking about ammonia levels, but does anyone have a test for it? The master FRESHWATER kit won’t help here.


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## mach_six (Sep 12, 2005)

I don't like Red Sea salt, I threw the remaining half of the 50G bag mix away because it left too much residue behind in the bucket and was cloudy for more than a day mixing and never became clear. I'll stick with the cheaper Instant Ocean.

A higher temp should mean faster metabolism. I almost had a second success with a 2 that went more than 30 days but I think it was taking much longer to morph into different phases because the tank was unheated maybe about 50s F in my cold basement. 

I didn't see the size of your jars but it should be at least 1G.

If anything, I'd test a tank with higher salinity if you're not keeping an eye on the water evaporation.


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## cl3537 (Jan 28, 2019)

OpinionUnFiltered said:


> We’re all talking about ammonia levels, but does anyone have a test for it? The master FRESHWATER kit won’t help here.


Actually I beleive the liquids are the same, just the color chart will be different and you can get that with google image search.


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

OpinionUnFiltered said:


> Regarding salinity from T. Amano’s original work, I read one theory that there could be multiple strains or races of wild amanos, that are accustomed to slightly varying salinities. So his that worked out at 15-17 ppt might have been from a different population than what currently makes up most of the captive/sold stock.


 +1
This is why trying lower ppt is important, 30 ppt and possibly 25 ppt with following batches. Second reason is easier adaptation and less stress when changing specific gravity. 


OpinionUnFiltered said:


> We’re all talking about ammonia levels, but does anyone have a test for it? The master FRESHWATER kit won’t help here.


 Total (NH3 + NH4) should be monitored with any marine test kit and the result used for water change timing. 



chayos00 said:


> Just realized I have a 6g Fluval Edge in a closet..... Now I wonder if I can get some SW rocks that would fit the mouth of that tank. LOL


 +1
An aquarium with established live rock, BB and algae covered glass should have the best chance. 


As far as temperature I wouldn’t use any heaters for the reason of having even temperature across all containers. Additionally, I would use an electronic pH test pen to determine new water readiness, and also aeration effectiveness due to algae CO2 uptake. Tons of algae with 24 hour light can remove a lot of CO2 which can break water pH buffering balance.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

So I picked up a 10g tank and some lace rock at the local salty store. He said that lace rock doesn't work so well with coral, but does well with fish only type tanks, so I picked up several pieces, some salt, and a proper refractometer. However I got the salt and rocks basically for free due to a $10 gift card I got from my local DAS (Desert Aquarist Society) group meeting that I won as part of our monthly raffle. So sweet deal there as I'm sure it was honestly more than $10 worth of rock and salt I got. I'm going to HD to find a sheet of glass I can cut to size for the lid to try and reduce evaporation and salt creep as much as I can, while having just a all corner open for air tubing. 

Not sure if I should stick with using a fine foam filter or just an airstone for the tank. Thoughts?









Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## cl3537 (Jan 28, 2019)

Edward said:


> Cl3537
> This is not about FW but SW and nobody was discussing CO2 injection here. Healthy saltwater pH relies on atmospheric CO2, see post #39. This CO2 source is so weak it can take days of aeration to reach the final pH.


Test the pH, 'days of aeration' is not always necessary.



> Remember you had difficulties understanding how I can have 1.55 pH drop with 13 ccm CO2 and 1.6 bps on 125 gallon aquarium? That was CO2 injection and it still takes over two days to get there. And then it remains stable.


The difficulty is how you explain yourself not what is 'possible'. I am not your opponent I have stood up for you on several occasions already including your pH graph do you remember? I don't know how 13ccm(what is ccm? ml/min?) = 1.6bps could you explain?



> symstep
> The chart in post #39 demonstrates how critical pH is in terms of NH4 and NH3 concentrations.


I really think too much has been made of this particular point, you don't want NH3 or NH4 in measureable quantities in the larvae tank period and with sufficient BB, water volume, water changes and little to no feeding shouldn't have much if any.


> I think the larvae should be raised in long term stable system in terms of algae and BB, and in lower ppt, lower KH and pH monitored.


You keep mentioning lower ppt salt, but have you any experience breeding amanos that way? or any proof that is successful?


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

cl3537 said:


> Test the pH, 'days of aeration' is not always necessary.


 +1


cl3537 said:


> I don't know how 13ccm(what is ccm? ml/min?) = 1.6bps could you explain?


 By practical observation, please see How can I control injected CO2 quantity.


cl3537 said:


> I really think too much has been made of this particular point, you don't want NH3 or NH4 in measureable quantities in the larvae tank period and with sufficient BB, water volume, water changes and little to no feeding shouldn't have much if any.


 I think this was worth mentioning because at 12 dKH and with reef sea salt mix the pH can go way over 8. Something we don’t experience in FW environment. Regular kitchen sea salt don’t have the same high pH risk as premixed reef salt. 


cl3537 said:


> You keep mentioning lower ppt salt, but have you any experience breeding amanos that way?


 No, do you have? 
And I don’t see why it is necessary to use reef levels of 35 ppt and 12 dKH when marine fish can have 30 ppt and only 7 dKH. Lower KH lower NH3.


cl3537 said:


> … any proof that is successful?


 Do you have any proof that it is not successful?


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## symstep (Apr 3, 2019)

chayos00 said:


> Jar 2 and 4 have a difference of 4ppt of salt, why not try the 17ppt of salt in one of the jars, or unless you have a 5th jar you can split the baby amano's into?
> 
> Also as I know I have amano's in my 125g tank, I was looking the amano's I can see over and they all look like they are males.... Guess time to go hunt down some more so I can get a few more ladies so I can start testing as well!


A difference of 4 ppt will have a lower DKH which will help for having less NH3 (Based off of Edwards findings), Or it will be too low of a salinity and have no success.

Bump:


OpinionUnFiltered said:


> Regarding salinity from T. Amano’s original work, I read one theory that there could be multiple strains or races of wild amanos, that are accustomed to slightly varying salinities. So his that worked out at 15-17 ppt might have been from a different population than what currently makes up most of the captive/sold stock. @symstep my suggestion if you want to run trials is to do two treatments or setups only, each replicated twice. So, stick with 34ppt, and do 2 jars daily, 2 others @5d.
> Personally, I think having 4 separate treatments is making 4x as much work when it comes to testing salinity, and changes. Or 2x as much if I do as I suggest and split a batch anyways. But for me, I’d if I do split my next batch, I’ll treat both the same. My research days are long behind me, and I’m happy to now stick with intuition, and trial and error. 😉


Excellent theory for T amano. That would make the 17ppt make sense finally haha.
Is two jars of the same trail necessary? As long as parameters are kept up on it is really about sample size in fry not sample size in duplicated conditions? I do see the merit in it and would be good to have on paper but regardless I completely forgot what I have to do first. I need to split up the light followers from the non light followers.


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## symstep (Apr 3, 2019)

mach_six said:


> I don't like Red Sea salt, I threw the remaining half of the 50G bag mix away because it left too much residue behind in the bucket and was cloudy for more than a day mixing and never became clear. I'll stick with the cheaper Instant Ocean.
> 
> A higher temp should mean faster metabolism. I almost had a second success with a 2 that went more than 30 days but I think it was taking much longer to morph into different phases because the tank was unheated maybe about 50s F in my cold basement.
> 
> ...


Why do you think it should be 1G? Also that sucks you experience with that salt sucks I use the instant ocean as well but cant find dkh info on it, If anyone can find that let me know.

Bump:


chayos00 said:


> So I picked up a 10g tank and some lace rock at the local salty store. He said that lace rock doesn't work so well with coral, but does well with fish only type tanks, so I picked up several pieces, some salt, and a proper refractometer. However I got the salt and rocks basically for free due to a $10 gift card I got from my local DAS (Desert Aquarist Society) group meeting that I won as part of our monthly raffle. So sweet deal there as I'm sure it was honestly more than $10 worth of rock and salt I got. I'm going to HD to find a sheet of glass I can cut to size for the lid to try and reduce evaporation and salt creep as much as I can, while having just a all corner open for air tubing.
> 
> Not sure if I should stick with using a fine foam filter or just an airstone for the tank. Thoughts?
> 
> ...


Nice set up! My opinion I would just use a air stone. The fry can swim but mainly float around aimlessly. Would be scared they would more so get pinned into the sponge. But Idk


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## symstep (Apr 3, 2019)

@Edward @cl3537 

Guys, I am new to the aqua game. You two, Opinion and half the others that have messaged on this thread know more about freshwater, saltwater and Aquatic life then I do and I have learned a lot from all of you. I made this thread just to ask A question about my shrimp tank (That still hasn't been touched on btw haha) and it has turned into something pretty cool. I haven't had much success but I have had definitely more than others and I want that number to increase and nail down how to breed these things with the fewest casualties, We all do. This is a hard topic to understand since a lot of experiments need to be done and it takes months to do them, A lot of chemistry applies along with intuitive and counter intuitive methods. There is no judgement in brainstorming or having a opinion. There is no judgement in mistakes. Lets try to not get defensive if we are questioned and lets try to have thicker skin and stay constructive  Really appreciate everyone's input on this thread, I have learned a lot.

Bump:


cl3537 said:


> I'd stick with all 34ppt, but use a larger container. I would test Ammonia and Nitrite every 5 days.
> I'd also use one container seeded with algae and aged water for a few weeks, grow it by the window sill.


I agree and think the 34 ppt is the way to go but Edward does have a good point and the numbers he presented make me want to give 30ppt a try. To everyone that hasn't done it or hasn't had a single survivor I urge them to do exactly what I have originally explained but now I am going to throw some experiments in


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## cl3537 (Jan 28, 2019)

symstep said:


> I agree and think the 34 ppt is the way to go but Edward does have a good point and the numbers he presented make me want to give 30ppt a try. To everyone that hasn't done it or hasn't had a single survivor I urge them to do exactly what I have originally explained but now I am going to throw some experiments in


Best of luck with the experiments I will be following with interest to see how they turn out.

I'd much rather copy someone who has demonstrated success than someone playing armchair academic who doesn't breed shrimp. 
You could have dozens of jars and try many different parameters, but if it was me I'd focus on slight variations from what has been reported to work.

"_THE ISSUE OF SALINITY
There is some controversy surrounding what the optimal salinity is for the developing larvae. Hayashi & Hamano report total failure to survive in salinities up to and including 8.5 ppt; optimal survival at 17 ppt (80% survival rate); and suboptimal survival (11%) at salinities up to 35 ppt (full marine salinity). This is quite different from what I found, with zero survival at salinities lower than 25 ppt, suboptimal survival at 25 ppt (3 larvae, out of at least 200, survived for four weeks without metamorphosing at which point the attempt was aborted), and high survival at 30-35 ppt (an estimated 80% reaching postlarval stage). Other people who’ve experimented with salinities have come to the same conclusion: any salinity below 30 ppt or over 35 ppt will result in heavy mysid-stage larval losses!_"

https://gabhar.wordpress.com/2009/11/11/breeding-amano/

"Alternatively losses might be avoided by lowering salinity to 17 ppt when the first larvae start to metamorphose."

What you might try(or research further) is adding freshwater and lower salinity after the first full metamorphose.
Its not clear to me if end stage larvae and fry will survive better in lower salinity or not.

It has been stated that the fry will die within 48 hours if left in 30+ ppt water so it would seem best to remove the fry to freshwater as soon as it is clear they are fully changed but will they be better off staying in 17 ppt water until the rest of the batch are fully morphed is unclear.


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## OpinionUnFiltered (Mar 12, 2019)

cl3537 said:


> What you might try(or research further) is adding freshwater and lower salinity after the first full metamorphose.
> Its not clear to me if end stage larvae and fry will survive better in lower salinity or not.



Fair comment, and good option. I think? 



If you're running a single batch/clutch of eggs from a single female, this is worth pursuing. But in my mind (others also, I suspect), a perfect setup would allow zoes from multiple females to go into a single zoe rearing setup. Meaning you'd always have zoes reaching metamorphosis, and dropping salinity for some might be fatal to the younger ones. So you either remove individual zoes as they metamorphose, and gradually desalinate the water for each group -- maybe having too many groups to manage this well -- or you keep a single batch in a single setup, and desalinate all together. [thinking...] The problem with that is that you'll likely kill your marine algae/diatoms before too long. 



What I might try to work out is a partial removal of water from the zoe rearing jar (including algae and diatoms) which then gets used to jump start the next saltwater jar for the next batch of zoes. Then lower salinity the original rearing jar (with the pre and post metamorphosis zoes/juvies) to say 17ppt, and then gradually to fresh when most/all have metamorphosed. Or something like that. Maybe. I hope. 

@symstep your original question was tankmates for the post-metamorphosis shrimps, right? Looking for a predator to control the 'uglies' that won't eat the tiny amanos? Sorry man, I got nothin'. :|


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## mach_six (Sep 12, 2005)

Having more water is a bit forgiving and I used a 1~ gallon tank. If they survive week to week, I'll change half of it. I did recall changing water weekly.

I would also say you should do your experiments on conditions when you have repeated success with large batches. 

I saw Chappy's video, they are pretty brown with diatoms but even he says some die offs. Mine ends up having green algae take over. Maybe that's a sign on when I should do water changes.


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

I read from someone else that they used the red disposable cups to "acclimate" the shrimp over a period of several days.... so one cup would be at least 75% saltwater (or whatever they were raised in) to 25% fresh, then 50/50, then 25/75 before going into freshwater. Personally though, I'd rather use something clear.. but the shrimp remained in the cups for at least a day before being moved into another container... so that's always an option.


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## mach_six (Sep 12, 2005)

I transitioned then in some clear dollar tree 2oz containers overnight in 50% FW/SW then in the morning I did a 50% WC making it approx 75% FW to 25% SW and then dumped them into full FW a few hours later It didn't take days for me, overnight then 3-4 hours was enough to go in full FW, I lost none out of 20~.

Though I've had someone msg me they lost the entire batch during the FW transition so I'm not sure why that is the case.


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## symstep (Apr 3, 2019)

cl3537 said:


> Best of luck with the experiments I will be following with interest to see how they turn out.
> 
> I'd much rather copy someone who has demonstrated success than someone playing armchair academic who doesn't breed shrimp.
> You could have dozens of jars and try many different parameters, but if it was me I'd focus on slight variations from what has been reported to work.
> ...


Yes they need to get into freshwater pretty soon after full metamorphosis. I just syringe them out individually since I don't want to harm the ones that are weeks behind and also I am not bored with it yet. But if you got to a point where you were doing a thousand at a time I could see experimenting with just lowing the entire batches ppt opposed to individually trying to catch 50+ a day haha good idea to consider tho if things get that real.


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## symstep (Apr 3, 2019)

OpinionUnFiltered said:


> Fair comment, and good option. I think?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yeah so if you really don't want to individually catch the morphed shrimp and drip fresh water (changing from 34ppt to 0ppt in 3-4 hours) and want to experiment with lowering the entire ppt slowly, you would need to have each batch separate from others to create less difference in timeline.Also this could kill some of the ones that are far behind and also if you lower the ppt too slow then you could kill the morphed ones... This should only be considered if its really that unrealistic to individually catch them. My opinion.
Also thank you for touching on my original question  I want to experiment with this but it involves potentially sacrifices a amano


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## symstep (Apr 3, 2019)

mach_six said:


> Having more water is a bit forgiving and I used a 1~ gallon tank. If they survive week to week, I'll change half of it. I did recall changing water weekly.
> 
> I would also say you should do your experiments on conditions when you have repeated success with large batches.
> 
> I saw Chappy's video, they are pretty brown with diatoms but even he says some die offs. Mine ends up having green algae take over. Maybe that's a sign on when I should do water changes.


I may be misunderstanding what you are saying but isn't the point of experimenting is looking for repeated success with large batches? But I want my numbers to increase and I am excited to first try to figure out if there is a difference in ones that follow light opposed to ones that don't.


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## symstep (Apr 3, 2019)

Zoidburg said:


> I read from someone else that they used the red disposable cups to "acclimate" the shrimp over a period of several days.... so one cup would be at least 75% saltwater (or whatever they were raised in) to 25% fresh, then 50/50, then 25/75 before going into freshwater. Personally though, I'd rather use something clear.. but the shrimp remained in the cups for at least a day before being moved into another container... so that's always an option.


Yes I acclimated mine in jars for 3-4 hours and have had no deaths after metamorphosis except one. One had morphed but was still orange in color and I transitioned him just to see and as I assumed he died  So that's why in my original post I said you must have at least the new morph and the new color before transitioning.

Bump:


mach_six said:


> I transitioned then in some clear dollar tree 2oz containers overnight in 50% FW/SW then in the morning I did a 50% WC making it approx 75% FW to 25% SW and then dumped them into full FW a few hours later It didn't take days for me, overnight then 3-4 hours was enough to go in full FW, I lost none out of 20~.
> 
> Though I've had someone msg me they lost the entire batch during the FW transition so I'm not sure why that is the case.


Exactly man, In my experience this is by far the easiest part. The person that said they lost a batch must have not waited until the orange color was gone which I believe happens 24 hours after the body change. Metamorphosis isn't in a few hours and they all don't morph around the same time.


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

I've thrown some into a tank with around 13 ppt and no survivors. Granted, I don't recall now if these were amanos or "not-amanos" (sold as amanos, but clearly not amanos). Didn't think they'd survive anyway.

Having said that, I do have a "not-amano" that's berried so I'd like to give it a try again, just need to set a tank back up. Have a tank with saltwater in it atm, but it needs to be dumped/refreshed, new light and air back onto the tank.


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## mach_six (Sep 12, 2005)

symstep said:


> I may be misunderstanding what you are saying but isn't the point of experimenting is looking for repeated success with large batches? But I want my numbers to increase and I am excited to first try to figure out if there is a difference in ones that follow light opposed to ones that don't.


I meant testing your jars in different salinity. A 24 hour light cycle test is fine though if nature doesn't have it then I am sure it's the lack of food in our tanks.

I think he uses 24 hr light because he doesn't prep the grow out tank ahead of time. He has a decent bubble rate which should be necessary to keep the algae floating.

I do recall some of my transitioned shrimps having some red that eventually faded while in 100% FW. Also when they transition to FW there's another morph that happens where they lose all those little legs to their 6 legs.

I can save you the test of dropping it in straight to FW, it will shock it and probably die within minutes. It came back to life when I put it back to the 50/50 mix.


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## symstep (Apr 3, 2019)

Zoidburg said:


> I've thrown some into a tank with around 13 ppt and no survivors. Granted, I don't recall now if these were amanos or "not-amanos" (sold as amanos, but clearly not amanos). Didn't think they'd survive anyway.
> 
> Having said that, I do have a "not-amano" that's berried so I'd like to give it a try again, just need to set a tank back up. Have a tank with saltwater in it atm, but it needs to be dumped/refreshed, new light and air back onto the tank.


What is a not amano? Can you explain with a picture or a link?

Bump:


mach_six said:


> I meant testing your jars in different salinity. A 24 hour light cycle test is fine though if nature doesn't have it then I am sure it's the lack of food in our tanks.
> 
> I think he uses 24 hr light because he doesn't prep the grow out tank ahead of time. He has a decent bubble rate which should be necessary to keep the algae floating.
> 
> ...


Are you sure you transitioned it while still orange or was it silver and then after transition became this color from becoming ill? I've learned from research and my one experiment haha is to not do that. Also pretty great the one survived after returning him to some salt water.


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## symstep (Apr 3, 2019)

Zoidburg said:


> I've thrown some into a tank with around 13 ppt and no survivors. Granted, I don't recall now if these were amanos or "not-amanos" (sold as amanos, but clearly not amanos). Didn't think they'd survive anyway.
> 
> Having said that, I do have a "not-amano" that's berried so I'd like to give it a try again, just need to set a tank back up. Have a tank with saltwater in it atm, but it needs to be dumped/refreshed, new light and air back onto the tank.


''These 'Taimanos' are identified by two features: the first being their shorter, compact rostrum, and the second being their inherent laziness. Supposedly, these false shrimp also breed entirely in freshwater, which is something that C. multidentata do not do. But aside from that they have the same, nondescript colours and similar markings.

There are even hints of an Indonesian variant doing the rounds, but these are also contested on a species level; they have a straight rostrum and not a crested one. Buyers beware, and be diligent. True Amano shrimp should be relentless workers, and that’s exactly what fuels their popularity.''


(SMH)


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

symstep said:


> What is a not amano? Can you explain with a picture or a link?


For sure! To start... this thread....

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/88-shrimp-other-invertebrates/1276427-odd-amano-shrimp.html

In short... I've been told they are....

C. typus 
C. formosae 
C. villadolidi

They are sold as C. multidentata (amanos) but people who are familiar enough with amanos know they are not amanos. They appear closest to C. typus (Australian Amano) but not quite... and there might be some other version of them? (of C. typus) So far, for me at least, they are smaller than amanos but still large shrimp, and they are "fatter" (body wise) than amanos. Other people say they are larger than amanos. At least one person has had one turn completely brown despite having the same coloration as the ones I have. Mine have remained clear to a clear brown color.


Attached is a recent picture of the berried female.











I simply call them "not amanos" because I honestly don't know what else to call them! That or just "Caridina sp".

Bump:


symstep said:


> ''These 'Taimanos' are identified by two features: the first being their shorter, compact rostrum, and the second being their inherent laziness. Supposedly, these false shrimp also breed entirely in freshwater, which is something that C. multidentata do not do. But aside from that they have the same, nondescript colours and similar markings.
> 
> There are even hints of an Indonesian variant doing the rounds, but these are also contested on a species level; they have a straight rostrum and not a crested one. Buyers beware, and be diligent. True Amano shrimp should be relentless workers, and that’s exactly what fuels their popularity.''
> 
> ...


If this were so, then the offspring would have survived in my freshwater tank. They did not. They survived longer in saltwater.


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## mach_six (Sep 12, 2005)

If you look on my Youtube channel, I recorded the shrimp that settled while in the S/W tank that's when I started to transition. Based on Chappy's video, he said the moment they can swim forward and look like little Amanos is when you should transition them. The variable is I don't know how long they were in the tank in their final stage before I took them out. 

I was worried about waiting too long and transitioned them the moment I saw which ones looked like that. Over time the color went away though I can't say for certain I noticed if I waited for that for all because all I did was leave them overnight for the timing of it.

I wasn't looking for visual color change since I never seen anyone mention during transition but I noticed that they lose it. I'll note that when I get to that point again.


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## symstep (Apr 3, 2019)

mach_six said:


> If you look on my Youtube channel, I recorded the shrimp that settled while in the S/W tank that's when I started to transition. Based on Chappy's video, he said the moment they can swim forward and look like little Amanos is when you should transition them. The variable is I don't know how long they were in the tank in their final stage before I took them out.
> 
> I was worried about waiting too long and transitioned them the moment I saw which ones looked like that. Over time the color went away though I can't say for certain I noticed if I waited for that for all because all I did was leave them overnight for the timing of it.
> 
> I wasn't looking for visual color change since I never seen anyone mention during transition but I noticed that they lose it. I'll note that when I get to that point again.


This is what chappy wrote, Copy and pasted it from his page. 
"HappyChappy
2 years ago
I tell you in the video, once they turn from pink to clear color and start swimming forward is when you know to make the switch﻿" there is also another instance where a person asked him to look at his video and they have morphed but he tells them that they are still too pink so to wait. I went against this with just one shrimp to see even tho assumed he would die, (idk call it the curse of the INTJ) and the poor guy died in like a hour  link your yt? 
Going back and looking at chappy tho I realized that he does apparently dump the morphed shrimp into 50/50 and then directly into fresh. No slow acclimation. Id still prefer to drip, even tho apparently they don't die, the drip method must be less stressful.


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## symstep (Apr 3, 2019)

@Zoidburg I have read in a thread a guy claiming he has amano hatching and surviving in freshwater, So there are multiple impostors haha. It is very cool you have already done research and have your head wrapped around this. Opinionunfiltered did briefly mentioned this so I Really appreciate you bringing more info in on this topic. Is this a amano shrimp? haha


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

@symstep I've asked the shrimp gurus (i.e. those who discover/name different shrimp species and help to classify them or reclassify) and been given two separate species for what the shrimp might be.... based on my own observations, I do not believe that they fit either species type. At first, I thought they were malayas myself (as did some others), but then realized that there are different species labeled as malayas and these offspring do not survive in freshwater... like amanos, they have hundreds of offspring. I've had multiple berried females last year and never saw any of the offspring I didn't fish out of their tank make it to adult-hood. I did notice they lived longer in saltwater but not knowing species and how they reproduce makes it harder to determine the best salinity. I think it would be great to setup various jars with different salinities in them, but I don't currently have room for that.

The picture you shared, I would say that yes, that is an amano. A male amano. I've also seen the posts where someone had them reproduce in freshwater. I can't say it's impossible, but I would say it's extremely rare. (kind of akin to someone breeding sunkist shrimp in freshwater tanks.... there's a Caridina species that are like amanos needing saltwater, then Neocaridina mutation that don't) There could of course be other explanations as to why a random amano showed up in a tank. (i.e. purchased 3, ended up with 4... maybe 4th came in on plants? or?) If I recall right, one of the shrimp gurus says he's had amanos reproduce in freshwater completely but can't explain how his (purchased originally from Takashi Amano himself...) were different than what we typically see on the market... and I can't find the information anymore, but probably because it was a group I was kicked out of. (no explanation given, just removed/banned) I could certainly ask him again though for information. I think he did mention something about "true amanos" vs "taiwan amanos" or something like that...


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## symstep (Apr 3, 2019)

Zoidburg said:


> @symstep I've asked the shrimp gurus (i.e. those who discover/name different shrimp species and help to classify them or reclassify) and been given two separate species for what the shrimp might be.... based on my own observations, I do not believe that they fit either species type. At first, I thought they were malayas myself (as did some others), but then realized that there are different species labeled as malayas and these offspring do not survive in freshwater... like amanos, they have hundreds of offspring. I've had multiple berried females last year and never saw any of the offspring I didn't fish out of their tank make it to adult-hood. I did notice they lived longer in saltwater but not knowing species and how they reproduce makes it harder to determine the best salinity. I think it would be great to setup various jars with different salinities in them, but I don't currently have room for that.
> 
> The picture you shared, I would say that yes, that is an amano. A male amano. I've also seen the posts where someone had them reproduce in freshwater. I can't say it's impossible, but I would say it's extremely rare. (kind of akin to someone breeding sunkist shrimp in freshwater tanks.... there's a Caridina species that are like amanos needing saltwater, then Neocaridina mutation that don't) There could of course be other explanations as to why a random amano showed up in a tank. (i.e. purchased 3, ended up with 4... maybe 4th came in on plants? or?) If I recall right, one of the shrimp gurus says he's had amanos reproduce in freshwater completely but can't explain how his (purchased originally from Takashi Amano himself...) were different than what we typically see on the market... and I can't find the information anymore, but probably because it was a group I was kicked out of. (no explanation given, just removed/banned) I could certainly ask him again though for information. I think he did mention something about "true amanos" vs "taiwan amanos" or something like that...


Glad it seems like I got the real amano  haha. I am going to dive into this topic. Ill get back with you with anything new or more definitive I find.


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## mach_six (Sep 12, 2005)

symstep said:


> This is what chappy wrote, Copy and pasted it from his page.
> "HappyChappy
> 2 years ago
> I tell you in the video, once they turn from pink to clear color and start swimming forward is when you know to make the switch﻿" there is also another instance where a person asked him to look at his video and they have morphed but he tells them that they are still too pink so to wait. I went against this with just one shrimp to see even tho assumed he would die, (idk call it the curse of the INTJ) and the poor guy died in like a hour  link your yt?
> Going back and looking at chappy tho I realized that he does apparently dump the morphed shrimp into 50/50 and then directly into fresh. No slow acclimation. Id still prefer to drip, even tho apparently they don't die, the drip method must be less stressful.


You can see they're pretty orangey like a cooked shrimp more than clear.


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## symstep (Apr 3, 2019)

mach_six said:


> You can see they're pretty orangey like a cooked shrimp more than clear.
> 
> https://youtu.be/xoaGZOCsX9M
> 
> https://youtu.be/EzoD3DC_xbE


Dude what did you record that with? That is a nice clear shot! But now I am thinking What if those are not amanos? Do you have a picture of the mother or are your shrimp large enough to take a pic and see what @Zoidburg has to say about it?


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

Clip on macro lens for phone work, although some people use high end cameras with fantastic macro shots for the same purpose. I've got a cheap macro lens for my phone. If it works, a picture of a "not amano" using a cheap macro lens and a Samsung S6 Active phone.


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## mach_six (Sep 12, 2005)

I got most of these from Petco labeled as Japanese Algae Eating Shrimp or Amano Shrimp, mainly as Japanese Algae Eaters cause they were priced cheaper when they had both. I don't know of any other shrimp with a similar larvae growth process being sold in the industry.

Here's a video of the shrimps after month, I didn't actively feed them so they are small.


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## shou (Nov 2, 2008)

mach_six said:


> You can see they're pretty orangey like a cooked shrimp more than clear.
> 
> https://youtu.be/xoaGZOCsX9M
> 
> https://youtu.be/EzoD3DC_xbE


They’re Amano shrimp larvae set to morph into clear body Amano shrimp. I found a way to trigger their finals morphing transformation by shown a very bright light while gave the water a good stirred.
With water movement and bright light, all the larvae that are ready to morph will dash and thrust a bit and they turned to a clear body Amano shrimp. Without a high-speed camera to film their transformation and played back in slow motion, we will never catch a glimpse of their final transformation.


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## symstep (Apr 3, 2019)

Zoidburg said:


> Clip on macro lens for phone work, although some people use high end cameras with fantastic macro shots for the same purpose. I've got a cheap macro lens for my phone. If it works, a picture of a "not amano" using a cheap macro lens and a Samsung S6 Active phone.


I am probably going to buy one of these macro lens and actually take pictures of my next batch. thank you for the tip . What do you think of mach_six shrimp, Do they look like true amanos?

What was this group you were kicked out of? This elitist group that chooses the members selectively that doesn't believe in open source? Or did you make fun of one of the members mothers or something?


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## symstep (Apr 3, 2019)

mach_six said:


> I got most of these from Petco labeled as Japanese Algae Eating Shrimp or Amano Shrimp, mainly as Japanese Algae Eaters cause they were priced cheaper when they had both. I don't know of any other shrimp with a similar larvae growth process being sold in the industry.
> 
> Here's a video of the shrimps after month, I didn't actively feed them so they are small.
> 
> https://youtu.be/vb9TxYoLo_M


I am not totally sure but Zoidburg has explained to me and others have mentioned in this thread that there is multiple shrimp with the same larvae growth process being sold. Some even may grow in fresh water that look very close to amanos. Btw love seeing your videos.

Bump:


shou said:


> They’re Amano shrimp larvae set to morph into clear body Amano shrimp. I found a way to trigger their finals morphing transformation by shown a very bright light while gave the water a good stirred.
> With water movement and bright light, all the larvae that are ready to morph will dash and thrust a bit and they turned to a clear body Amano shrimp. Without a high-speed camera to film their transformation and played back in slow motion, we will never catch a glimpse of their final transformation.


?


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

symstep said:


> I am probably going to buy one of these macro lens and actually take pictures of my next batch. thank you for the tip . What do you think of mach_six shrimp, Do they look like true amanos?
> 
> What was this group you were kicked out of? This elitist group that chooses the members selectively that doesn't believe in open source? Or did you make fun of one of the members mothers or something?


Fixed image if it wasn't showing up before. There may be better macro clip on lenses but I haven't experimented with any. With the cheap ones at least, the item you want to take a picture up needs to be within 1" or less of the lens.

mach_six shrimp do appear to be amanos. Having said that, the "not amanos" that are showing up in peoples tanks are also from Petco... lol I don't know how many Petco employees have even noticed... I'm pretty sure they can't hybridize either.... I ended up with a tank full of female "not amanos" and one male amano. (not sure what happened to the male "not amanos"). Petco was having a "buy 3, get 4th free" deal, so I grabbed what appeared to be 3 males and 1 female "not amanos". I now have at least 4 berried girls. When I first brought them up in this thread, there was only 1 berried.


As for the group... well, honestly, I don't know what happened. Realized I wasn't in it, and I can't find the group anymore. Can't imagine it was shut down. Didn't care enough to hunt down one of the admins to ask.


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## mach_six (Sep 12, 2005)

I've bought more than my fair share of Amanos over the last 7+ years to know. Back then that's what Petco only carried in addition to ghost shrimps. 

Now that they expanded their offering is where more confusion is when they are mixing so many different types of shrimps all in one tank. They're selling Amanos now in the size of neos which doesn't help. Back then they were also giant sized and easy to identify, they were easily over 1" that's hard to find in most stores even not Petco.


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

Everyone who has picked up these random shrimp have all purchased them from Petco. They can be purchased right along with the amanos, even!


Saw one in a tank at an "LFS" in another state. I think the tank was supposed to be amanos and fish only, and yet, there was one big female roaming the tank along with the amanos.


Would be nice to know more about them.


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## OpinionUnFiltered (Mar 12, 2019)

There’s a great lss (local shrimp store) here in Toronto called ShrimpFever (if you’re in Canada they do a good online business also) and they occasionally sell “short-nosed algae eating shrimp”. I’ve asked about them and they’re apparently a bit more laid back, but visually I wouldn’t be able to tell them apart, though the staff there can, I believe. 
https://www.shrimpfever.com/shop/livestock-shrimp/short-nose-shimp/

Along a separate line of thought, anyone know if berries females can hold the eggs back from hatching? Or, is hatching a fixed time after fertilization/depositing on swimmerets? I’ve had a female in a jar on her own for, well, longer than I thought it would take her to release her eggs. I have checked closely every day and she appears to be carrying almost all of her full load of eggs. I’ve seen a few larva, ones and twos only. Is she on a fixed schedule, and I placed her in the jar too early, or is she in a holding pattern? If the latter, anyone have suggestions to induce her to release?


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## mach_six (Sep 12, 2005)

OpinionUnFiltered said:


> There’s a great lss (local shrimp store) here in Toronto called ShrimpFever (if you’re in Canada they do a good online business also) and they occasionally sell “short-nosed algae eating shrimp”. I’ve asked about them and they’re apparently a bit more laid back, but visually I wouldn’t be able to tell them apart, though the staff there can, I believe.
> https://www.shrimpfever.com/shop/livestock-shrimp/short-nose-shimp/
> 
> Along a separate line of thought, anyone know if berries females can hold the eggs back from hatching? Or, is hatching a fixed time after fertilization/depositing on swimmerets? I’ve had a female in a jar on her own for, well, longer than I thought it would take her to release her eggs. I have checked closely every day and she appears to be carrying almost all of her full load of eggs. I’ve seen a few larva, ones and twos only. Is she on a fixed schedule, and I placed her in the jar too early, or is she in a holding pattern? If the latter, anyone have suggestions to induce her to release?


They will hatch on their own when they're ready. If you are seeing one or two here and there then that's a good sign they're progressing. You don't want her to drop her eggs and she is keeping them fungus free.

Water temp plays a big part in prolonging it, how cold is the water they've been in?


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## OpinionUnFiltered (Mar 12, 2019)

mach_six said:


> water temp plays a big part in prolonging it, how cold is the water they've been in?


76f


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## mach_six (Sep 12, 2005)

OpinionUnFiltered said:


> 76f


As long as the eggs are becoming lighter greenish gray and not orange then they will eventually release.


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

OpinionUnFiltered said:


> There’s a great lss (local shrimp store) here in Toronto called ShrimpFever (if you’re in Canada they do a good online business also) and they occasionally sell “short-nosed algae eating shrimp”. I’ve asked about them and they’re apparently a bit more laid back, but visually I wouldn’t be able to tell them apart, though the staff there can, I believe.
> https://www.shrimpfever.com/shop/livestock-shrimp/short-nose-shimp/
> 
> Along a separate line of thought, anyone know if berries females can hold the eggs back from hatching? Or, is hatching a fixed time after fertilization/depositing on swimmerets? I’ve had a female in a jar on her own for, well, longer than I thought it would take her to release her eggs. I have checked closely every day and she appears to be carrying almost all of her full load of eggs. I’ve seen a few larva, ones and twos only. Is she on a fixed schedule, and I placed her in the jar too early, or is she in a holding pattern? If the latter, anyone have suggestions to induce her to release?


I've actually been to the store. Tiny!

I also had a short nosed algae eating shrimp.... was sold as an amano along with the "not-amanos" that I had picked up. (Petco here in the USA) Actually didn't know what the guy was at first, but was pretty sure that he was one of the "nosed shrimp" species. (red nosed, yellow nosed) Unfortunately, he's gone now. I've actually contemplated on getting more of them.


As far as hatching... I've noticed that amano eggs can hatch anywhere from 2-5 weeks.... so it's not unusual for some to hatch earlier than others. The best way to get the eggs to hatch is to do a large water change. Might trigger the eggs to hatch. Could be wrong but I think it may have something to do with how they are in the wild... i.e. when it rains in the wild, higher chance of offspring reaching the ocean when the water is rushing faster. Therefore, when it rains, it may trigger the eggs to hatch?

If you do the water change too earlier though, nothing might happen at all.


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## symstep (Apr 3, 2019)

@Zoidburg @mach_six

If mach_six shrimp are true amanos then I have no answer why my shrimp and others have died when transferred with the orange tint. Any thoughts?

Also Does any of the shrimp you guys have seem lazy? Or amanos and not amanos are all still the excellent work horses?


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## symstep (Apr 3, 2019)

OpinionUnFiltered said:


> There’s a great lss (local shrimp store) here in Toronto called ShrimpFever (if you’re in Canada they do a good online business also) and they occasionally sell “short-nosed algae eating shrimp”. I’ve asked about them and they’re apparently a bit more laid back, but visually I wouldn’t be able to tell them apart, though the staff there can, I believe.
> https://www.shrimpfever.com/shop/livestock-shrimp/short-nose-shimp/
> 
> Along a separate line of thought, anyone know if berries females can hold the eggs back from hatching? Or, is hatching a fixed time after fertilization/depositing on swimmerets? I’ve had a female in a jar on her own for, well, longer than I thought it would take her to release her eggs. I have checked closely every day and she appears to be carrying almost all of her full load of eggs. I’ve seen a few larva, ones and twos only. Is she on a fixed schedule, and I placed her in the jar too early, or is she in a holding pattern? If the latter, anyone have suggestions to induce her to release?


Shrimp fever... lmao
As for your mother. The color of the eggs start out as a dark green color and progress into a nice crisp khaki color. A few days before she is ready to hatch you can see individual eyes for each egg. If you don't have a magnifying glass to look then think of texture. Having khaki colored eggs and adding small black dots to them will add a sense of texture to the overall appearance of her eggs. They will no longer seem bland. this is when she should release. Mine never releases all at once, she does it in waves during the night just keep in mind that she has a large window and does this manually. Also Elements of stress or lack of food could result in her not sticking to the proper timeline. Give her what she wants and be patient


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

symstep said:


> @Zoidburg
> 
> If mach_six shrimp are true amanos then I have no answer why my shrimp and others have died when transferred with the orange tint. Any thoughts?
> 
> Also Does any of the shrimp you guys have seem lazy? Or amanos and not amanos are all still the excellent work horses?


It was always my understanding that you need to wait until the orange coloration goes away before transitioning them. I have never made it that far so I can't really comment from personal experience.


True amanos, as we know them, may be more "active" than the 'not-amanos', but that's simply just moving around more. Otherwise, I don't know what major differences there may be between the species. I'll have to see if I can hunt down the most recent photos I took of one in the tank with amanos... that one was actually on the active side, moving around the tank a bit. Maybe mine are just lazy? lol


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## symstep (Apr 3, 2019)

Zoidburg said:


> It was always my understanding that you need to wait until the orange coloration goes away before transitioning them. I have never made it that far so I can't really comment from personal experience.
> 
> 
> True amanos, as we know them, may be more "active" than the 'not-amanos', but that's simply just moving around more. Otherwise, I don't know what major differences there may be between the species. I'll have to see if I can hunt down the most recent photos I took of one in the tank with amanos... that one was actually on the active side, moving around the tank a bit. Maybe mine are just lazy? lol


In terms of the color, I would submit if someone gets that far to just wait until the orange tint is gone. Maybe try to transition just one that still has the orange tint and if it dies, don't do it again haha. 

I would love to see a side by side pic! If the impostors do the same amount of work then really who cares? There may just be a different line of technique for breeding... I mean which this thread is all about haha


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

Here's one picture. I do have others of a male amano with female "not-amano" but I'd have to find that one again...

This was at an LFS in California. I'm in Nevada. Only time I've seen one at an LFS so far, since Petco has been the only place that everyone else has picked them up at. These guys can be a clearer color (akin to amanos) or a darker brown. Mine have turned brownish, but not opaque brown, which I have seen pictures of one do.


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## mach_six (Sep 12, 2005)

I notice they turn that color when they're ready to molt.


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## symstep (Apr 3, 2019)

Zoidburg said:


> Here's one picture.
> 
> That is crazy! Thank you for the picture.


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

This whole thing is making me wonder if I have “not Amanos”. My area unfortunately doesn’t have any LFS, so I purchased about four from Petco. Granted my tank is pretty dense with plants, but I almost never see them. Occasionally during a water change, but they’re not out and about diligently working on cleaning like amanos are known for.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## symstep (Apr 3, 2019)

> This whole thing is making me wonder if I have “not Amanos”


Post a pic!


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

symstep said:


> Post a pic!




I will once one of them comes out of hiding lol. I swear I see the neocaridina more and they’re smaller.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## symstep (Apr 3, 2019)

varanidguy said:


> I will once one of them comes out of hiding lol. I swear I see the neocaridina more and they’re smaller.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


My female always hides as well in my 125g. I just turn off the circulation and she usually comes out and swims around. I feel like this makes them think they are back in the ocean and have to swim upstream.

Bump: @ Everyone that has participated in this thread. My Female finally released! She released them all at once and they all hatched in about a hour.
This has been the healthiest batch yet. It seems there is 1000+.


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## mach_six (Sep 12, 2005)

Good luck! Are they already in your grow out container?


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## OpinionUnFiltered (Mar 12, 2019)

I've never had more than a hundred or so zoes, but seeing your pic, I can see the wisdom of splitting a batch into multiple salt jars.


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## symstep (Apr 3, 2019)

mach_six said:


> Good luck! Are they already in your grow out container?


Thank you very much man! Yes i put them in the jars 24 hours after they hatched, the mother is back home safe and sound. Hopefully all goes well. I was under the impression that they don't eat for the first 4-5 days but day 2 I am pretty sure they where eating the algae I threw in there. What do you think?

Bump:


OpinionUnFiltered said:


> I've never had more than a hundred or so zoes, but seeing your pic, I can see the wisdom of splitting a batch into multiple salt jars.


Yes, we were having conversations about water volume. I agree with mach_six that more is probably better as long as they do not have a problem getting to algae. But what size jar, tank or how many is clearly relative to batch size. Did your mother finish releasing yet?


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## mach_six (Sep 12, 2005)

They don't have egg sacs to feed off of, I'd make sure they have food to eat. 

I can only guess the batches I had perish sooner was the tank wasn't ready with ample algae growth. 

They'll most likely perish sooner than the 4-5 days w/o eating.


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## symstep (Apr 3, 2019)

mach_six said:


> They don't have egg sacs to feed off of, I'd make sure they have food to eat.
> 
> I can only guess the batches I had perish sooner was the tank wasn't ready with ample algae growth.
> 
> They'll most likely perish sooner than the 4-5 days w/o eating.


Yeah I don't remember where I read that but I now don't believe this is the case after paying more attention to them. Let's just lock it in that they are eating immediately.


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## OpinionUnFiltered (Mar 12, 2019)

symstep said:


> Did your mother finish releasing yet?


I just noticed last night she has no more eggs on her swimmerettes, so she must have released the eggs between lights-on/head-to-work, and last night. 

But when I shined a light in the jar, only a couple zoes responded. So I think she's dropped the eggs prior to them hatching. 

She's back in the main tank, and hopefully the eggs will hatch over the next few days. [fingers crossed]
So frustrating to have a plan (for raising babies), and not have babies. grr.


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## mach_six (Sep 12, 2005)

OpinionUnFiltered said:


> I just noticed last night she has no more eggs on her swimmerettes, so she must have released the eggs between lights-on/head-to-work, and last night.
> 
> But when I shined a light in the jar, only a couple zoes responded. So I think she's dropped the eggs prior to them hatching.
> 
> ...


Sorry, didn't catch the beginning of this. 

But if you had it in the jar before she released, keep the light on in the jar. I've had some shrimps that discard their eggs but a good amount still hatches if they don't grow fungus.


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## cl3537 (Jan 28, 2019)

symstep said:


> TDSapp
> 
> First of all, nice concept idea of just trying to block the light!
> The holding tank for the mother is actually at 75 degrees and my fry are kept at room temp. I actually used to make wine so I use that style hydrometer. lol
> ...


Love your detailed input can't wait to see shrimp fry and how big your batches are.


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

I've hatched amano eggs using a brine shrimp hatchery.... one that uses a 2 litre bottle and an air pump.

So if there are eggs (much easier if released in a container!!!), they can still be hatched.


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## symstep (Apr 3, 2019)

OpinionUnFiltered said:


> I just noticed last night she has no more eggs on her swimmerettes, so she must have released the eggs between lights-on/head-to-work, and last night.
> 
> But when I shined a light in the jar, only a couple zoes responded. So I think she's dropped the eggs prior to them hatching.
> 
> ...


like mach_six said, Keep that jar up and running for at least a few days. When you say only a few were responding to light, Did you look for some not responding to light? Also where does the water that is in your mothers isolation tank come from? the faucet or her original tank?

Bump:


cl3537 said:


> Love your detailed input can't wait to see shrimp fry and how big your batches are.


Thank you very much  I plan on sharing various points of this batch (good or bad). I just hope it goes well because there is about 1500.

Everything is ok so far except I didn't pre grow the algae. I have dropped some in every day so far and they just destroy it.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

I ordered some Dr Tim's yesterday to see if it helps me cycle my 10g for the SW setup. Also was wondering about Coralline algae, I also came across info about it as how it's good for nitrate consumption, but it also seems to be a hard algae and so not sure if the zoe could eat from it or not. I ordered a bottle of a starter along with Dr Tims to start cycling the tank. 

Anyone able to successfully grow Diatoms on purpose?


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## EdWiser (Jul 14, 2015)

Coralline algae would not be good for any food. As it is a calcium based algae an would not have any value to baby shrimp. You have to maintain a dkh of 8 and calcium of 450. Then you have to have strong lighting to.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

EdWiser said:


> Coralline algae would not be good for any food. As it is a calcium based algae an would not have any value to baby shrimp. You have to maintain a dkh of 8 and calcium of 450. Then you have to have strong lighting to.


Thanks @EdWiser! I was thinking that was the case, but figured I'd ask to see what the thought was. However the salt I got from the local salty store is https://fritzaquatics.com/products/fritz-rpm-redline-high-alk-complete-marine-salt, which meets those specs. But I'm going to run it at I think the lower range of 30ppt. Next time I'm gonna order some cheap instant ocean so it's not strong on the reef mix side of things. 

Parameters:
SALINITY 35PPT
CALCIUM 400-450 ppm
MAGNESIUM 1300-1400 ppm
ALKALINITY 10 - 11.5dkh
STRONTIUM 9 ppm
POTASSIUM 400 ppm


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## symstep (Apr 3, 2019)

chayos00 said:


> Thanks @EdWiser! I was thinking that was the case, but figured I'd ask to see what the thought was. However the salt I got from the local salty store is https://fritzaquatics.com/products/fritz-rpm-redline-high-alk-complete-marine-salt, which meets those specs. But I'm going to run it at I think the lower range of 30ppt. Next time I'm gonna order some cheap instant ocean so it's not strong on the reef mix side of things.
> 
> Parameters:
> SALINITY 35PPT
> ...


Diatoms mainly need nitrates, light, silica and a mother cell. Do you have any tanks with diatoms in it? If you have ever seen diatom algae after it decomposes, you will see this clear sheet like structure left behind, believe that is silica. When I make my salt water I use tap water (for phosphates, silica, nitrates etc.) and mix in a little bit of my main tank water for additional nitrates. Also throwing in algae to be eaten and then leaving the cell wall skeleton behind to leech said silica. That's what I know about growing diatoms intentionally and 99% percent sure about what I just said haha


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## NotASpammer (Aug 23, 2016)

chayos00 said:


> Thanks @*EdWiser*! I was thinking that was the case, but figured I'd ask to see what the thought was. However the salt I got from the local salty store is https://fritzaquatics.com/products/fritz-rpm-redline-high-alk-complete-marine-salt, which meets those specs. But I'm going to run it at I think the lower range of 30ppt. Next time I'm gonna order some cheap instant ocean so it's not strong on the reef mix side of things.




Just to add, coraline algae commonly takes many months to grow in bare tanks, so by the time any would grow in a shrimp larvae culture, the amano would be already in freshwater for at least a month.


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## Blacktetra (Mar 19, 2015)

I've only just skimmed the last 20 posts but don't have time for the rest. Has anyone looked at this thread: "Amano Shrimps or some things else. https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1186193 "

Hope that link works. I don't think I saw the poster from that thread on this one. He is breeding Amano shrimp with some success, has some YouTube videos too.


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## symstep (Apr 3, 2019)

Blacktetra said:


> I've only just skimmed the last 20 posts but don't have time for the rest. Has anyone looked at this thread: "Amano Shrimps or some things else. https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1186193 "
> 
> Hope that link works. I don't think I saw the poster from that thread on this one. He is breeding Amano shrimp with some success, has some YouTube videos too.


Yeah I seen his post. He seemed to not be talking about breeding really, just sharing some you tube videos and discussing the "not amano" situation. As for this thread, there are multiple people participating in this thread that have had success and Mach_six has shared you tube videos as well (they are very cool) . I know there is a lot of pages at the moment but if you are really trying to get into breeding then I would suggest reading all of it. There is good information in here, plus feel free to participate constructively or ask us anything you want


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Okay, just got my 10g tank setup and ready to go for a cycle. I dumped in some Dr Tim's to try and help establish the cycle. I made a tight fitting cover from acrylic from home depot. Got the Fluval Planted+ lights on the tank and will leave them on 24/7 to try and grow algae.

I noticed one of my female Amanos berried the other day! Woot Woot!









Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## symstep (Apr 3, 2019)

chayos00 said:


> Okay, just got my 10g tank setup and ready to go for a cycle. I dumped in some Dr Tim's to try and help establish the cycle. I made a tight fitting cover from acrylic from home depot. Got the Fluval Planted+ lights on the tank and will leave them on 24/7 to try and grow algae.
> 
> I noticed one of my female Amanos berried the other day! Woot Woot!
> 
> ...


Woot Woot indeed! Very excited for you. I would like to say that your wave maker is looking a little large. Also I don't know how the rough looking rocks may go with the fry. Are they smoothed or rough like lava rock?


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

symstep said:


> Woot Woot indeed! Very excited for you. I would like to say that your wave maker is looking a little large. Also I don't know how the rough looking rocks may go with the fry. Are they smoothed or rough like lava rock?


LOL that's a 1100gph wavemaker too! I pulled it out of my 125g just to get this tank stirred up and help with dissipating any air bubbles in the rocks as they are full of pockets. I only planned to use it for a day or so. The rock is a lace rock which is more of a lava type of rock and is porous. 

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## symstep (Apr 3, 2019)

chayos00 said:


> LOL that's a 1100gph wavemaker too! I pulled it out of my 125g just to get this tank stirred up and help with dissipating any air bubbles in the rocks as they are full of pockets. I only planned to use it for a day or so. The rock is a lace rock which is more of a lava type of rock and is porous.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Excellent you are not going to have that wave maker in there haha. I am interested in how they do with the lava rock, Just wondering if it wold be rough on their little legs. Probably not tho. For real tho man, GOOD LUCK!!!! Keep giving updates, also i would like to know what your PH is.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Sure didn't take long for algae to take off in this tank! LOL Having the lights on 24/7 I'm sure helps! I should probably bust out my PAR meter and see what I have going on.









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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

chayos00 said:


> Sure didn't take long for algae to take off in this tank! LOL Having the lights on 24/7 I'm sure helps! I should probably bust out my PAR meter and see what I have going on.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Do it!


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## mach_six (Sep 12, 2005)

How is the larvae doing? 

Having one success, I have nothing to really share since I just followed Chappy's video and didn't have repeatable success after that. I didn't test the water or anything but the parameters should be like how you are trying to keep things alive and flourishing. Just try it and don't over complicate it as you can see in other videos of people there's no much to it other than a food source and stable parameters.

So view his video and try his method, the only exception is to start the tank way sooner than later. The ones who have success are probably the ones selling them to the stores but it looks like someone in the larger distribution have started to breed them. What they sold over 7+ years are monsters compared to what htey sell that I saw at Petco, they looked smaller than adult neos.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

I'm starting to question if the female "amano" shrimp I got from the local big box pet store are actual amano's or those fake ones. The ladies are berried at the moment too. They are kind of a darker greenish color, and with a strong tan stripe down their back. I'll see if I can get a picture of them. 

But seems using Dr Tim's has gotten the tank cycling already. The ammonia as per the seachem ammonia strips in tank tester are showing it's going away in 24hr's, but I don't have a SW API test kit to test the other two parameters.


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## Pythos (Feb 4, 2019)

chayos00 said:


> I'm starting to question if the female "amano" shrimp I got from the local big box pet store are actual amano's or those fake ones. The ladies are berried at the moment too. They are kind of a darker greenish color, and with a strong tan stripe down their back. I'll see if I can get a picture of them.
> 
> But seems using Dr Tim's has gotten the tank cycling already. The ammonia as per the seachem ammonia strips in tank tester are showing it's going away in 24hr's, but I don't have a SW API test kit to test the other two parameters.



From what I remember, the 'fake amano shrimp' will breed in fresh water. If you question if they are real or not a sure way to tell would be to keep them in fresh water for a while and see if they propagate.


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

Both "fake" and real amanos breed in freshwater. I haven't had offspring from either survive in freshwater. They all survived longer in a saltwater setup.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

I may have to try that. I picked up a baby brine shrimp sieve and see if it also picks up these Amano babies, if these are the real ones. I'll have to move some into the salt setup after I get an API test kit, but I've also read that the reagents are the same just different test colors on their charts. 

Here's the shrimp, I'll try to compare them to my known Amanos in my 125g if they come out of hiding at all today.























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## mach_six (Sep 12, 2005)

Based on the egg size and amount, it could be an Amano.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Here's what I've always seen as Amano shrimp. Took a bit of hunting, but found them in my 125g, which I did find a berried female too, just couldn't get a picture of her. To me there's much more body lines on my big tank amano's. Vs these ones I just got.


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

The ones in your big tank do appear to be true amanos, but I don't think I've seen females that were so heavily striped on the sides! Food should help to bring them out of hiding since they are food hogs...


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## Blacktetra (Mar 19, 2015)

Zoidburg said:


> The ones in your big tank do appear to be true amanos, but I don't think I've seen females that were so heavily striped on the sides! Food should help to bring them out of hiding since they are food hogs...


True that. I really struggle to get food to my Corydoras because the Amano's find it way faster and hog it all.
I don't really get a choice when it comes to how much the Amano shrimp get fed.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

One of my three berried momma Amanos dispersed some zoes the other day. I checked the SW tank I setup and had to stop dosing ammonia and let the nitrites go to zero. Did a 2g water change (as that's what I had left from when I filled the tank) and as I just bought a brine shrimp strainer I was able to use that to strain the baby zoes out of the water from the parents FW tank. I'd guess there are a good 20-50 zoes moved into the SW tank. Already see some going right to the diatoms and hopefully eating! 

I noticed another two females in the 125g tank that I might have to move into my 5g amano tank. Would be nice to get a steady stream of zoes to keep raising! 

When I was doing my water straining using a siphon and then straining it into the brine shrimp strainer, the Finnex light fell into the SW tank (still working) but I've got it taken apart and rinsed in alcohol and drying at the moment so I had to use a CFL light to give the SW tank some light. 

Here's the strainers if anyone was wondering. 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B079K4YQ85
















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## symstep (Apr 3, 2019)

> One of my three berried momma Amanos dispersed some zoes the other day. I checked the SW tank I setup and had to stop dosing ammonia and let the nitrites go to zero. Did a 2g water change (as that's what I had left from when I filled the tank) and as I just bought a brine shrimp strainer I was able to use that to strain the baby zoes out of the water from the parents FW tank. I'd guess there are a good 20-50 zoes moved into the SW tank. Already see some going right to the diatoms and hopefully eating!


Very nice! Very excited for you man! If you happened to create too much nitrifying bacteria in this tank and the zoes cant feed it (their production of NH3) then the nitrifying bacteria can die and create spikes? Just bringing that up so you have that in mind. But keep us updated!


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## cl3537 (Jan 28, 2019)

symstep said:


> Very nice! Very excited for you man! IMO if you happened to create too much nitrifying bacteria in this tank and the zoes cant feed it (their production of NH3) then the nitrifying bacteria can die and create spikes. Just bringing that up so you have that in mind. But keep us updated!


Bacteria colonies multiply, die, or go dormant(as opposed to dieing) depending on how much food(Ammonia and Nitrite) is available. 

Dead bacteria don't release Ammonia, spikes only occur when there aren't enough BB available to consume the amount of Ammonia being produced. You get spikes when you kill your bacteria(dryness, or chlorine from Tap), or when you rapidly increase the amount of Ammonia in the tank to levels that bacteria can't immediately consume. 

If you were cycled with higher Ammonia levels being consumed(higher bacteria levels) than the zoes can produce than the tank is *safer and less likely to see Ammonia spikes* not the other way around.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Either batch number two or what was missed the first time moving the zoes over. Either way there should have been a good hundred or so that I saw in the FW tank before straining them out. Fingers crossed! 

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## symstep (Apr 3, 2019)

cl3537 said:


> Bacteria colonies multiply, die, or go dormant(as opposed to dieing) depending on how much food(Ammonia and Nitrite) is available.
> 
> Dead bacteria don't release Ammonia, spikes only occur when there aren't enough BB available to consume the amount of Ammonia being produced. You get spikes when you kill your bacteria(dryness, or chlorine from Tap), or when you rapidly increase the amount of Ammonia in the tank to levels that bacteria can't immediately consume.
> 
> If you were cycled with higher Ammonia levels being consumed(higher bacteria levels) than the zoes can produce than the tank is *safer and less likely to see Ammonia spikes* not the other way around.


I completely agree that it would be better this way. Still if so much was created and especially with store bought bb, it will decay at a certain rate and should release ammonia back into the water column right?


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

To help assist the questions above about the cycle. I initially applied a few drops of ammonia to get levels up to get the cycle started. Then I would feed it 1 or two drops of ammonia after that dropped every other day, if I remembered. So wasn't a huge amount, yeah zoe's won't produce much ammonia, but a BB die off shouldn't cause a huge ammonia spike, any ammonia produced should be consumed by the alive BB keeping them going. So unlike a filter that's forgotten to be turned back on after a water change there shouldn't be an ammonia spike. Just my 2 cents. 

So I'm not really seeing any zoes at this moment, but I've got greenish colored water going and tons of algae all over the tank. No spot on the glass that's clear besides above the water line. I do see these tiny little white spots all over the glass, which I assume was some sort of bugs, but they don't really seem to be moving and I know they aren't zoe's as those have a different shape. Hope they are just on the rocks below.... fingers crossed!


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## cl3537 (Jan 28, 2019)

symstep said:


> . Still if so much was created and especially with store bought bb, it will decay at a certain rate and should release ammonia back into the water column right?


No that is a myth, dead Bacteria don't release Ammonia. Not dormant BB spores in a bottle, not BB that is grown in your tank your filter or anywherelse. BB don't decay they die or go dormant when there isn't ample food to sustain them.


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## symstep (Apr 3, 2019)

chayos00 said:


> To help assist the questions above about the cycle. I initially applied a few drops of ammonia to get levels up to get the cycle started. Then I would feed it 1 or two drops of ammonia after that dropped every other day, if I remembered. So wasn't a huge amount, yeah zoe's won't produce much ammonia, but a BB die off shouldn't cause a huge ammonia spike, any ammonia produced should be consumed by the alive BB keeping them going. So unlike a filter that's forgotten to be turned back on after a water change there shouldn't be an ammonia spike. Just my 2 cents.
> 
> So I'm not really seeing any zoes at this moment, but I've got greenish colored water going and tons of algae all over the tank. No spot on the glass that's clear besides above the water line. I do see these tiny little white spots all over the glass, which I assume was some sort of bugs, but they don't really seem to be moving and I know they aren't zoe's as those have a different shape. Hope they are just on the rocks below.... fingers crossed!


Love the two cents. Still think that Nh3 will be created but it being used by the BB that is still alive, creating a slowly depleting cycle makes sense.

Bump: Been going through some life transitions. Unfortunately I slacked on keeping up with this batch and missed my mothers most recent batch release. Only have 10 acclimated back into fresh and 30-40 still in salt but looking very healthy and about to morph any day. Yeah its success, but not what i originally wanted. SMH


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Follow up checks on my first batch are non existent.... The tank I don't think was quite fully cycled, as I did notice some ammonia in the tank, again this is me checking with a FW test kit, which should be the same as SW just not the right color charts but google can assist with finding what the color chart should be. Just have to wait till the next batch.


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## mach_six (Sep 12, 2005)

chayos00 said:


> Follow up checks on my first batch are non existent.... The tank I don't think was quite fully cycled, as I did notice some ammonia in the tank, again this is me checking with a FW test kit, which should be the same as SW just not the right color charts but google can assist with finding what the color chart should be. Just have to wait till the next batch.


Did you supplement feed because the larvae would be so tiny that it shouldn't have any effect on water params on that size of a tank. I used a 1.5G and there's no filtration other than the algae growing in it.

Just make sure you don't have any copepods or any marine life in it especially the rocks came from another tank. They will find them easy prey to eat them if there's a lack of food.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

mach_six said:


> Did you supplement feed because the larvae would be so tiny that it shouldn't have any effect on water params on that size of a tank. I used a 1.5G and there's no filtration other than the algae growing in it.
> 
> Just make sure you don't have any copepods or any marine life in it especially the rocks came from another tank. They will find them easy prey to eat them if there's a lack of food.


No supplement feeding, the walls of the tank were coated with a diatom type algae. However on my next batch I will most likely supplement the water with some seachem plankton. 

The rocks used were dry rocks so nothing that I can see as any sort of life in the tank yet. 

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## mach_six (Sep 12, 2005)

I didn't see in the tank pic, are you using an air stone?


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

mach_six said:


> I didn't see in the tank pic, are you using an air stone?


Yes I've got air running into the tank, back left side. This was when the tank was new and clean still. LOL









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## mach_six (Sep 12, 2005)

The algae looks very yellow or is that due to the light? I think you can dial down the volume of air by 50%. You just want enough to break the surface tension to keep the water from getting stale but also not cause a lot of water movement inside. I know in the wild, they deal with ocean waves but keeping it calm should help them feed easier.

I'd get rid of the egg crate, they could get stuck in it. They're not the greatest of swimmers that I've seen, they are lazy eaters. If anything just pick the least porous looking rocks.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

mach_six said:


> The algae looks very yellow or is that due to the light? I think you can dial down the volume of air by 50%. You just want enough to break the surface tension to keep the water from getting stale but also not cause a lot of water movement inside. I know in the wild, they deal with ocean waves but keeping it calm should help them feed easier.
> 
> 
> 
> I'd get rid of the egg crate, they could get stuck in it. They're not the greatest of swimmers that I've seen, they are lazy eaters. If anything just pick the least porous looking rocks.


Oh that air flow has gone way down since. It was more so for the initial setup of getting things all mixed up in the water with the Dr Tim's bacteria cycle stuff I was using. The algae was a greenish brown color overall. I also always use egg crate to prevent rocks from scratching or putting a pressure point on the glass and cracking it, since it's only a 10g that glass ain't that strong. 

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## mach_six (Sep 12, 2005)

Take a look at this vid, you're seriously underestimating how strong the glass is.


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## mach_six (Sep 12, 2005)

I siphoned some of the larvae out to record their phase. It's a mix of 2 weeks to 1 day old. 






Here's a shot of them while in the tank.


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## shrimpboy112 (Jul 18, 2019)

After reading this forum and various other topics, watching videos I've decided to give this a try myself.

Setup/parameters:


15 liter ( +/- 4 us gallon)
tap water with instant ocean mix, trying to accomplish 1025 sg / 24ppt (I measure in sg)
24 degrees celsius
24 hours led light for growing plants
airstone for a mild flow
food: reef phyto plankon

I have 4 berried moms at the moment. 2 in a separated container with an airstone, and I just put one in a container without flow (both containers in water from the big tank).

The 2 moms have been in the container for 12 days, they are releasing eggs but not many are hatched.
The single mom without the airstone I caught today.

I keep all tanks covered with towels, for the moms to give them the feeling of being safe. And for the big light not to lit my whole room 

I'm having trouble determining wheater they are far enough. I'm scared to lose the eggs in the big tank. The fish in the bigger tank is already showing a different behavior, I'm thinking they are hunting for them. The eggs on the mo are visible, not sure if I can tell that they have eyes...

I have my saltwater tank now also for 12 days, no water changes, my thought: time to grow algae and nothing in the water that is making it dirty...

But now there is some layer of slime forming, and I don't understand what that is and why it comes.

I did collect some of the eggs/larvae and put them in the saltwater tank. I could only spot one larva being alive. I feed it 2 ml of reef phyto plankton every other day. Now I don't see it anymore, I kept it alive for 4 days.

Some of my photos of the setup I'm running:












































































Is anybody familiar with that slime? I don't see it anywhere. Only read something in this forum, but nobody answered that question.
Besides the slime, there is also white residue, the level of salinity has not changed... any thoughts on what that could be?
Any tips on getting more larvae from the berried moms?
All thought are welcome


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## shrimpboy112 (Jul 18, 2019)

Update: 

The single berried female in the container released today. I out her and the other two into the main tank. The two were sitting in the container for over 2 weeks and I did not want to stress them longer. My goal was to hatch babies for the setup as shown above.

Babies and eggs released in the by now 2 week old salt water tank. No water changes applied.

I added 5 ml of plankton and some reef pearls (smells like highly concentrated fish flakes).

The white stuff is getting worse, also the white slime seems to accumulate, but maybe that is algae. Still hoping for an awnser on that one


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## shou (Nov 2, 2008)

I will not use death reef phytoplankton certainly not 5ml in 4g tank, going to have ammonia spikes in the tank. I use live Nannochloropsis (Japanese Chlorella) phytoplankton.


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## shrimpboy112 (Jul 18, 2019)

@shou 



> I will not use death reef phytoplankton certainly not 5ml in 4g tank, going to have ammonia spikes in the tank. I use live Nannochloropsis (Japanese Chlorella) phytoplankton.


Thank you for your reply, and thinking about it, I doubt myself for even buying this stuff...

Were you able to grow them up to adulthood solely on the Nannochloropsis? Or do you introduce other food as well?


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## shou (Nov 2, 2008)

Amano shrimp is truly an algae eating machine even a larvae. Look at the back and front corner and the right side of the tank, they really chomping down on the algae. They can grow to adulthood on algae or phytoplankton and other food if the water is healthy clean.


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## shrimpboy112 (Jul 18, 2019)

Thank you for sharing the video @shou . I'm trying to accomplish a tank like that. I thought by introducing the instant ocean mix, a heater, airstone(lightly) for flow, and a lamp 24/7 algae would come. But they are not. Just a layer of slime and the white stuff as shown in my pictures above. I'm not at home this week, but when I'm back I'm going to set up a new tank, and will introduce some live phytoplankton and will read up on how to grow algae. My guess is by introducing them will help  haha.

I will post an update on the process if people like to follow


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## Amano Shrimp (Jul 31, 2019)

Day 23 for some, less for others, i havent fed them since day 1, regular water changes and they seem to be doing well so far. ph 8.1 , 34ppt, 24C


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## shrimpboy112 (Jul 18, 2019)

@Amano Shrimp

I was away this week, and now I'm not able to load the video anymore, any chance of sharing it once more? What are you using as salt? Are you having lights on? Are you pumping in air?


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## Amano Shrimp (Jul 31, 2019)

Hey Shrimpboy it should load now , i had them private for few days while sorting them out, ive since included yesterdays videos of day 30 on my youtube channel m8, im using Microbe premium reef salt, salted to 34ppt (guaranteed PH 8.1), 24hr light with base algae already started before the zoes went in, temp 24C , light aeration to just break surface tension and exchange gases, theyre thriving on the algae and ive not fed them once. as long as i keep the water in check theres no reason for them not to morph. water changes every 9 days.


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## shrimpboy112 (Jul 18, 2019)

@Amano Shrimp 

Thank you for sharing the videos! Nr 27 top view is abstract art! Really enjoyed watching it!

Trying to understand what you are saying:
Do you mean that by starting the water with the light before the larvea go in, you start the algae? Or do you add something start the base algae?

How much percent water do you change when you do a water change?

Do to use Led for 24h light, or what kind of light source do you use?

When I have my lights in for 24h at some point a slime layer gets into the water. 

I'm now starting up some salt water with natural light, (have to wait for the Zoes). See if that also gives the slime.

If my brand doesn't work, I will try your salt.


Did you already manage to transfer some back into the fresh water? And if so, what is your successrate?


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## Amano Shrimp (Jul 31, 2019)

@shrimpboy112 

Hi i do a 20% water change every 9 days, i take the water from the tank the zoes were born in which is already cycled, the water is then salted to 34ppt before putting into the zoe container with a turkey baster so as not to disturb the zoes, i use a normal desk lamp about 4 inches above the container, microbe premium reef salt guarantees ph8.1 and is the best, i have tried with other salts and failed, the container was running with airstone, heater, temp gauge, hydrometer and 24hr light for 7 days to start base algae off before putting the first zoes into it to guarantee them food throughout the whole process, no feeding needed, this is my first batch. check the rest of my videos on my youtube channel im upto day 30.


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## consumer (Jan 30, 2021)

Hi everyone,
First post here. First time trying to rear Amanos (or Not Amanos, as the case may be).
I set up a 5 gallon tank, 35ppm salt water, around 80F (27C), seeded it with live phytoplankton (Tetraselmis), put it in a bay window that gets about 2-3 hours of direct sunlight this time of year and put a 6500K CFL on 24/7. Momma Amano dropped her zoes on the 16th & 17th of January, and I transitioned them to salt water (too slowly, lots died) and got them into the tank.
A few days ago, I noticed that everyone had turned a nice shade of reddish orange. I didn't have time to check the tank the last couple days until tonight. This is where it gets weird. 
Tonight (30th of January) when I got home many of them were zooming around the tank forward. Everything I've read says 45-60 days to metamorphosis.

These guys look like little shrimp: They've turned mostly clearish. They move forward, FAST. They're around 5-6 mm long, which is smaller than reports I've read. But everything else matches what a metamorphosed Amano is reported to look like and behave like. I have 9 of them sequestered into one of those breeder things that hangs on the side of the tank, inverted to be in the tank to it maintains temperature.

I'm worried that I'm jumping the gun, but these guys seem to have metamorphosed in two weeks!

Now: They may be a Not Amano, as discussed in this thread, but their parents sure look like the quintessential amano and they did go through a larval stage in 35ppm salt water and turn orange, like in the reports I've read. If they're not Amano, they're close enough for me. 

I'm just gobsmacked that it looks like they've morphed in two weeks. We'll see how transitioning goes.


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

@consumer do you have pictures of the adults?

I haven't seen anything that says they'll morph before 3-6 weeks, but perhaps I haven't paid enough attention.

Congrats though on your success!


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## consumer (Jan 30, 2021)

Thanks @zoidberg! 

Below are a couple photos of momma, berried again. 

I'm considering an experiment of rapid transition to fresh water for a couple of them. It seems to me that in nature, the transition would be much more rapid than what I've read of 50% changes over three/four days. 
We'll see how it goes. 

I bought these 'Amanos' from a guy on eBay. I'm going to write him to ask if he knows anything more about them. I doubt that will lead to much more information, but worth a shot.


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

The photos aren't ideal, but I would say that yes, they are true amanos! Caridina multidentata!


For zoes, if they are born in freshwater, they would quickly be washed out to sea or at least into a brackish area... so that alone would be a quick transition.

Going from saltwater to freshwater however would be a slower transition as they would have to swim against the current. This is why it's recommended to transition over days. Certainly try both and see which works best!


This is a great thread to reference and @shou has had a bunch of success raising amanos









Amano Shrimp or some things else.


petco brought Amano Shrimps berried with orange eggs. Never see orange eggs berried Amano Shrimps before.




www.plantedtank.net


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## consumer (Jan 30, 2021)

Thanks again Zoidberg, that is a really excellent thread.

At the risk of claiming success too early, I wanted to relay the latest in my weird saga:
Testing my hypothesis that in nature, juveniles can transition to fresh water nearly as rapidly as they go from fresh to salt, I sucked up a postlarvae into a turkey baster and placed the baster face down into about 1/2 gallon of water from the mother's tank.
After shining a light near the bottom, the postlarve eventually swam down the baster, into the fresh water. It did seem to jump around a little bit when it first transitioned, but that could have been temperature differences as well.
It's only been about 1/2 an hour but the little gal seems just fine.
EDIT: Don't listen to me - The survival rate for shrimplets drip acclimated to fresh water was MUCH higher. 
I'm transitioning my second batch (around 12) to a 10g grow out tank later today. 
Momma is berried again and I'm keeping an eye one her for her next batch. Onward and upward.

I really hope I can recreate and improve on this success with the next clutch.

Cheers!


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