# Sump design without drilling the tank



## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

Bean animal can be set up in some overflow systems. The box that the water flows into needs to be large enough for 3 bulkheads/3 pipes.
This basic concept, and use the outlet they have, or alter it (or make your own box).

http://www.marinedepot.com/CPR_CS_O...Boxes_for_Aquariums-CPR-CR1511-FIOFEB-vi.html


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## Freemananana (Jan 2, 2015)

I suggest the eshopps design over the one Diana mentioned due to my lack of faith in the aqualifter. It is a personal opinion, I know people who have had failures with both setups and I know people who have had great success with both.

I was going to make my own box and utilize the same bean animal design Diana mentioned, but I would stick with the U tubes. I also prefer to use gutter guard instead of the slots. Having half your horizontal run taken up by 1/4" slots cuts the flow of your box in half. The gutter guard isn't as bad, in my opinion, and is finer to keep out smaller fish. I bet all my neons and cherry barbs could fit through a 1/4" slot in acrylic.

If you are setting up a new tank, and drilling is possible, it is the best idea. Drilling the back and installing a coast to coast overflow is amazing. Alternatively, drilling the short sides is a great idea and can get you one directional flow. 

Whatever you decide on, do not utilize a DIY PVC overflow IMO again.


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## ppp (Sep 2, 2015)

I have "converted" an eshopps overflow box to a Herbie style successfully. It is completely silent and almost no maintenance. I have posted pics in another thread


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## BruceF (Aug 5, 2011)

I am curious what is the objection to pvc overflows?


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## Freemananana (Jan 2, 2015)

BruceF said:


> I am curious what is the objection to pvc overflows?


Horrific flow rates. I did my own testing and it just wasn't nearly the flow I was expecting. Obviously it could just be me, but I don't see many people posting bucket tests with their return pump after reaching maximum flow through their DIY PVC overflows. I had a float switch that would cut the return pump when the water in the display tank reached the rim. I had a gate valve to dial in the return flow rate. After finding my maximum, I tested it, and it was dismal compared to what it 'should' have been. Most people who build PVC overflows also don't want to spend the $40 on building a quality float switch setup with a relay to turn off the pump in case the display tank overfills due to the drain clogging. Therefore they are quite risky. 

I ran my overflow for several months before taking the tank down. I didn't have a single incident outside of garage testing, which is where I was attempting to reach failure. I just would not suggest it. It is also insanely loud _compared_ to a well setup herbie or bean animal design, the latter being my favorite. Key word, compared. I found it to be quite livable personally. But side by side, it is like a diesel pickup and an electric car. 

Of course, this is just my opinion and experience. I see plenty of claims contrary to this. But, for my money, if I were to do it again, I'd DIY an overflow box with a single, appropriately sized, U-pipe. I actually have done several pictures for others. So here is one demonstrating my suggestion:



Crude, but you should be able to decipher it.


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## BruceF (Aug 5, 2011)

I could see that about the flow.


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## Freemananana (Jan 2, 2015)

I added a bunch of information on my actual flowrate and extrapolated it to pipe sizes on my thread. I ended up with a monster 2" PVC overflow. Looking back, I could have done what I proposed here for about the same price and flowed thousand of GPH instead of 300-400.


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## BruceF (Aug 5, 2011)

i just use a syphon because the two tanks are at the same height but I still need to adjust the flow because the pump is too strong. I recirculate some of the excess pressure into the sump tank all the time. So I really don't get all that great flow in the fish tank.


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## Freemananana (Jan 2, 2015)

That's not really a traditional sump and really faces none of the hurdles of most of the DIY PVC overflows. You could get away with something like a 1" or 1.5" braided tubing line between the tanks. Your setup is similar to the U bend on the eshopps overflow. It functions at a full siphon all the time since both ends are submerged below water.

Most DIY PVC overflows run into issues with air from the surface reducing flow, numerous bends, and air trapped at the top. Not to mention issues with air tight seals and such.


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## shrimpNewbie (May 6, 2011)

I'm curious, why not drill the tank? It's safer and it's way easy

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## Freemananana (Jan 2, 2015)

shrimpNewbie said:


> I'm curious, why not drill the tank? It's safer and it's way easy
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk


 I just thought it was a general opinion question. For me, it is a DIY eshopps overflow box or drilling the tank. I don't think any of the other methods are worth pursuing.


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## darklord (Feb 22, 2015)

Freemananana said:


> I just thought it was a general opinion question. For me, it is a DIY eshopps overflow box or drilling the tank. I don't think any of the other methods are worth pursuing.


I made 3 overflow pvc pipes and have the 3 tanks put side by side together arrange horizontally and then the overflow will drain to a central sump. The sump will then be the Lifeline for all subsequent new tanks, so to speak the water maintenance and other miscellaneous or new setup will link from the sump to them.

The overflow PVC pipes was based on this design as I do not intend to drill my tanks, same as you. 









Reference from  http://www.sgreefclub.com/forum/to...w.sgreefclub.com/forum/topi...w-box-or-pipe/ 

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## Freemananana (Jan 2, 2015)

Have you considered an over the top sump? I've seen a few and I kind of like the idea if you don't want to drill the tank. You do have to place the pump in the tank or use an inline pump with a PVC intake in the tank. But you pump water up to the sump, then use gravity to feed back into the tank. It is essentially the average sump completely reversed.


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## darklord (Feb 22, 2015)

ichy said:


> Is there a sump/overflow design that is worth pursuing without drilling the tank?


You can also use this idea, which is the same.
This is a great link on how to make a PVC overflow pipe. No need to drill tank.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZytENJZtJw&feature=youtu.be


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## SingAlongWithTsing (Jun 11, 2015)

Here's a DIY PVC Overflow with top and mid level skimming

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAtoCFNlCmQ


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## shrimpNewbie (May 6, 2011)

Take the time to research your design before you decide on a hob overflow. They are prone to failure and I would absolutely include a float switch emergency cut off for your pump in the tank. It's that or drill to avoid this completely

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## emrg (Jan 22, 2016)

I made one myself with a floating hatchery, tube and a fish hospital tub that hung on the side. This was before even knowing anything about this stuff. It matched the flow anyways. I'm pretty sure the pvc overflow would work anyhow. 

Basically, build it with 1.5 inch tubing, add a ball valve to control flow. If that isn't enough, go bigger!

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## darklord (Feb 22, 2015)

emrg said:


> I made one myself with a floating hatchery, tube and a fish hospital tub that hung on the side. This was before even knowing anything about this stuff. It matched the flow anyways. I'm pretty sure the pvc overflow would work anyhow.
> 
> Basically, build it with 1.5 inch tubing, add a ball valve to control flow. If that isn't enough, go bigger!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk


Hi emrg, 
I'm interested in your design, could you share it with me? If you don't mind, you can share on the forum. 

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## emrg (Jan 22, 2016)

Hey darklord. I can't really show you as I use a canister now, but I can put some pictures of what I used with some explanation. I'll do it as soon as I get home

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## darklord (Feb 22, 2015)

emrg said:


> Hey darklord. I can't really show you as I use a canister now, but I can put some pictures of what I used with some explanation. I'll do it as soon as I get home
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk


Hi emrg, really appreciate it. Shall await your drawing.. Cheers! 

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## shrimpNewbie (May 6, 2011)

The op hasn't responded since this was posted

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## emrg (Jan 22, 2016)

Hello darklord, it is very simple and crude and was my very first attempt. Here are three pics that will give you the whole idea. You would have to drill a hole to install some kind of bleed in the tube and drill into the outside box and install a bulk fitting along with a hose.

Top of container and suction cups not needed as it floats.

Cut and drill as needed to fit and voila!





























Considering it was my first attempt at making a sump without Google, library books, or any kind of knowledge, I was amazed it worked so well

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## ichy (Apr 6, 2015)

darklord said:


> You can also use this idea, which is the same.
> This is a great link on how to make a PVC overflow pipe. No need to drill tank.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZytENJZtJw&feature=youtu.be


I like this idea a lot!


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## darklord (Feb 22, 2015)

ichy said:


> I like this idea a lot!











Hi ichy, 
I had made it and the flow rate is very good. You can see in my picture attached. 

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## darklord (Feb 22, 2015)

emrg said:


> Hello darklord, it is very simple and crude and was my very first attempt. Here are three pics that will give you the whole idea. You would have to drill a hole to install some kind of bleed in the tube and drill into the outside box and install a bulk fitting along with a hose.
> 
> Top of container and suction cups not needed as it floats.
> 
> ...


Hi emrg,

Thanks for the info, I'll try to piece them together.

Cheers! 

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## shrimpNewbie (May 6, 2011)

ichy said:


> I like this idea a lot!


If you do it for sure add the 15 dollar aqualifter or at least a float switch to shut off your pump when it gets too full in the tank

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## dknydiep1 (May 21, 2006)

Check out the mame overflow. pricey but looks nice and works well on my 60f.


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## ichy (Apr 6, 2015)

well, now I'm on the fence....I have not checked to see if the tank is tempered..its an old 1999 Oceanic.
BUT talk me into drilling my tank.

Does a coast-to-coast off gas a lot of CO2?


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## shrimpNewbie (May 6, 2011)

ichy said:


> well, now I'm on the fence....I have not checked to see if the tank is tempered..its an old 1999 Oceanic.
> BUT talk me into drilling my tank.
> 
> Does a coast-to-coast off gas a lot of CO2?


No ctc is the best for co2 tanks, it makes the overflow much more gentle, even better if you do a very good herbie but I recommend the bean animal style highly. There's no better option than drilling, if it pops on you a tank that sized is cheap and besides 17 years, it's time to replace haha. But chances are it's not tempered, try on a 10g till you're comfortable, but I assure you it's so easy.

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## shrimpNewbie (May 6, 2011)

Oh and I forgot to mention if you do ctc don't use an overflow with slots in it. This off gasses co2 quicker and is noisy, one long smooth weir is superior 

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## ichy (Apr 6, 2015)

well, I've gotten over the pucker factor and am going to drill. I've done it on my saltwater tanks back in the day, so not sure why I'm hesitant. But is there a good tutorial with dimensions etc, on doing a C to C. I'm wondering how far down from the top and how far to space the holes.


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## shrimpNewbie (May 6, 2011)

ichy said:


> well, I've gotten over the pucker factor and am going to drill. I've done it on my saltwater tanks back in the day, so not sure why I'm hesitant. But is there a good tutorial with dimensions etc, on doing a C to C. I'm wondering how far down from the top and how far to space the holes.


Well if your tank has a top rim you would go 2-3/4" from the bottom of said rim to the center if the holes. Minimum distance from the edge of hole to another edge of hole or edge of glass should be 1 to 1.5x the size of the hole. For a 29g tank at full siphon you would only need 1/2 bulkheads could go 3/4 but really don't need it. The open stand pipe should be double the nominal size of your siphon imo to allow silent cascading of water for anything the siphon can't handle, so say you go all 3/4 bulkheads but run a 1/2x3/4 tee for your siphon you would run a 1x3/4 tee for your open drain and your emergency if you run a bean animal.

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