# Diffuser Recommendations, Please



## Bogey (May 7, 2017)

Wendy1B said:


> Hi, need help choosing a diffuser for my 12 gallon Fluval Edge. I have a GLA Gro pressurized Co2 system which I am going to hook up a 2nd block manifold to get Co2 to this 2nd set up. I’m considering either the GLA Atomic Diffuser or the Dooa brand. Any thoughts or experiences you can share with either of these?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I would go with the Gla Atomic diffuser. Makes a huge cloud of mist which is very good for the plants. If u used a canister filter I'll go with Up Aqua inline co2 diffuser or GLA inline co2 diffuser (both the same but with reskins)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## IntotheWRX (May 13, 2016)

Wendy1B said:


> Hi, need help choosing a diffuser for my 12 gallon Fluval Edge. I have a GLA Gro pressurized Co2 system which I am going to hook up a 2nd block manifold to get Co2 to this 2nd set up. I’m considering either the GLA Atomic Diffuser or the Dooa brand. Any thoughts or experiences you can share with either of these?
> 
> Atomic+ CO2 Diffuser 50mm | Green Leaf Aquariums
> 
> https://aquaforestaquarium.com/products/dooa-co2-count-diffuser


any $10-20 glass diffuser on amazon.com will work great.

atomizer will give the finest bubbles (requires higher psi)

they have stainless steel style with atomizer if you are interested


----------



## Wendy1B (Jan 8, 2017)

Bogey said:


> I would go with the Gla Atomic diffuser. Makes a huge cloud of mist which is very good for the plants. If u used a canister filter I'll go with Up Aqua inline co2 diffuser or GLA inline co2 diffuser (both the same but with reskins)
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Thanks. I do have the Up Aqua Inline on order for my bigger system, but this 12 gallon Edge has a HOB. I appreciate the input :0)


----------



## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

not sure it is "universal" or random but "my" glass based made noise in the 55gal. you know sort of a hissing..
Curious as to if anyone else/kinds do this... 

Other one I use is a Fluval disc.. No noise.

https://www.amazon.com/Fluval-Ceramic-88g-CO2-Diffuser-Ounces/dp/B004GCO35G

no real judgement on which is "best"...


----------



## Wendy1B (Jan 8, 2017)

IntotheWRX said:


> any $10-20 glass diffuser on amazon.com will work great.
> 
> atomizer will give the finest bubbles (requires higher psi)
> 
> they have stainless steel style with atomizer if you are interested


Is it possible to post a link or PM me with one? I haven't learned anything about he stainless steel w/atomizer & I like to explore all avenues before purchasing.


----------



## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

I would stay away from expensive glass diffusers. Glass breaks and its not that uncommon to break the thin stem or to simply drop one. Also stay away from that fluval one. they clog up all the time and are hard to get going after a while (you could read the reviews in that link)

Best bet is to buy a 3 pack of inexpensive glass ones so if they break or you need to clean one you have a fresh one ready to go. The cheap one's work fine and I've used them for years and they don't hiss. :wink:


----------



## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

jeffkrol said:


> not sure it is "universal" or random but "my" glass based made noise in the 55gal. you know sort of a hissing..
> Curious as to if anyone else/kinds do this...
> 
> Other one I use is a Fluval disc.. No noise.
> ...


My Doaqua glass on my mini-m makes a hissing noise.

And to the OP stay away from Atomizers if you can't push the co2 at 40psi minimum.


----------



## ScottieB (Nov 25, 2010)

It may well be overkill or unsuitable in other ways for you, but in my experience I tried a few different atomizers and diffusers -- and I wasn't happy until I bit the bullet and built a rex-grigg style reactor. It was less expensive than any of the crappy atomizers I got, and it just works. It's not pretty though, that's for sure.


----------



## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

What would OP do with a reactor on a 12g fluval edge? People use in-tank diffusers and atomizers on 6 foot tanks with incredible results. It's a proven system that works. Reactor is another way to go, but usually only worth it on a larger canister-based setup and even then it is not better its simply preference of one vs the other.


----------



## Bogey (May 7, 2017)

houseofcards said:


> What would OP do with a reactor on a 12g fluval edge? People use in-tank diffusers and atomizers on 6 foot tanks with incredible results. It's a proven system that works. Reactor is another way to go, but usually only worth it on a larger canister-based setup and even then it is not better its simply preference of one vs the other.




Yep. Look at all the ADA tanks, all in tank co2 diffusers. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Bogey (May 7, 2017)

Also I do think the OP can push the co2 with the GLA regulator.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## ILikeRice (Jul 9, 2017)

for the people that say inline needs 30+psi, mine works fine at 20 from gla..idk y but idm :]


----------



## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

One benefit of in tank diffusers: you can tell at a glance if co2 is indeed getting into the tank.


----------



## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

OVT said:


> One benefit of in tank diffusers: you can tell at a glance if co2 is indeed getting into the tank.


I've always liked the visual check as well. Some also have integrated bubble counters or you can simply see the bubbles through the glass stem.


----------



## IntotheWRX (May 13, 2016)

Wendy1B said:


> Is it possible to post a link or PM me with one? I haven't learned anything about he stainless steel w/atomizer & I like to explore all avenues before purchasing.


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01GK7OWQE/ref=twister_B01GK7OW32?_encoding=UTF8&th=1

stainless steel style with atomizer diffuser. the bubbles are fineeeee


----------



## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

IntotheWRX said:


> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01GK7OWQE/ref=twister_B01GK7OW32?_encoding=UTF8&th=1
> 
> stainless steel style with atomizer diffuser. the bubbles are fineeeee


Nice stuff.. but doesn't cut it for rimmed tanks..well unless you want to bend it..


----------



## IntotheWRX (May 13, 2016)

jeffkrol said:


> Nice stuff.. but doesn't cut it for rimmed tanks..well unless you want to bend it..


I'm just trying my best to help


----------



## madcrafted (Dec 23, 2017)

IntotheWRX said:


> I'm just trying my best to help


You're good, the OP's tank is a rimless design and this would work. I started looking into one of these for a 2.6 gallon tank. Some brands offer them in lengths as short as 5" or so. Great for a shallow tank. My guess is it would need to be cleaned a little more often than glass ones if the porosity is anything like the ista and fluval diffusers. Really fine ceramic = really fine bubbles but at the cost of clogging sooner. If you bought a spare ceramic disc, then you could always rotate them (less down time with cleaning).


----------



## uMc (Apr 12, 2012)

How about bamboo chopstick? $5 chopstick will last for you forever.. I was battling myself which diffuser i should get i searched on youtube for diffuser and found chopstick method very interesting. I am waiting on my gla reg to arrive i will try the chopstick method and see how it works
Or how about this?


----------



## Ken Keating1 (Nov 22, 2017)

jeffkrol said:


> not sure it is "universal" or random but "my" glass based made noise in the 55gal. you know sort of a hissing..
> Curious as to if anyone else/kinds do this...
> 
> Other one I use is a Fluval disc.. No noise.
> ...



i tried both wood and glass diffusers, and both made noises. The glass was quite loud, I could hear it in the next room over. The wood one was a little quieter. I ended up going with the GLA inline and it's doing a great job, plus it's quiet, no noise at all.


----------



## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

Ken Keating1 said:


> i tried both wood and glass diffusers, and both made noises. The glass was quite loud, I could hear it in the next room over. The wood one was a little quieter. I ended up going with the GLA inline and it's doing a great job, plus it's quiet, no noise at all.


I have used glass diffusers for around 10 years. Probably used a dozen different types and not once did I notice any noise, especially to a level that would prevent me from using them. If you were hearing it in the next room, something was wrong with it or the setup.


----------



## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

houseofcards said:


> I have used glass diffusers for around 10 years. Probably used a dozen different types and not once did I notice any noise, especially to a level that would prevent me from using them. If you were hearing it in the next room, something was wrong with it or the setup.


You are special aren't you..

Like I said, mine was loud. Loud enough to get my wife to hate it..
50psi, 1bps or so........


----------



## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

jeffkrol said:


> You are special aren't you..
> 
> Like I said, mine was loud. Loud enough to get my wife to hate it..
> 50psi, 1bps or so........


Why do you have to start? I'm sharing my experience which is much deeper and broader than yours. Stay in your lane. 

Yeah that's why it's the most used method of diffusion because everyone's wife hates it. It's probably the main reason the divorce rate is so high.


----------



## madcrafted (Dec 23, 2017)

houseofcards said:


> Yeah that's why it's the most used method of diffusion because everyone's wife hates it. It's probably the main reason the divorce rate is so high.


:icon_lol:


FWIW, I've never heard any noises from my rhinox diffusers and they are about as cheap as you can get (besides chopsticks). 

What kind of flow rates are you guys using to get that "hissing" noise? Edit* nevermind, just noticed jeffkrol posted 1 bps at 50psi. Well I've never heard it as high as 3-4 bps @ 48psi.


----------



## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

I'm betting that most that respond to this will either say they hear no noise or the noise level is so low it's not a factor. To say your wife hates it or you hear it in the next room.....:laugh2:


----------



## madcrafted (Dec 23, 2017)

Yeah, never heard anyone else mention noises from a diffuser nor witnessed it myself. Not saying jeffkrol didn't get a faulty one but that would be more the exception than the rule. Even the plastic cased fluvals and ista ones didn't make any noises for me, though they clogged easily and spit bubbles around the edge of the disc until they became completely saturated. About the only noise I ever hear coming from my CO2 system is the clicking of the solenoid twice a day.


----------



## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

houseofcards said:


> Why do you have to start? I'm sharing my experience which is much deeper and broader than yours. Stay in your lane.
> 
> Yeah that's why it's the most used method of diffusion because everyone's wife hates it. It's probably the main reason the divorce rate is so high.


It's your "tone"... have no problems w/ your experiences..


Stay in my lane???? Rest my case..


I just need to accept the fact you "sound like" a grumpy old man who thinks he is better than everyone else...


----------



## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

jeffkrol said:


> It's your "tone"... have no problems w/ your experiences..
> 
> 
> Stay in my lane???? Rest my case..
> ...


What came first that or "your special" look at the post numbers. Yours has a lower number than mine.


----------



## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

houseofcards said:


> What came first that or "your special" look at the post numbers. Yours has a lower number than mine.



I'll admit you accidentally set me off...
My apologies..

We have a minor personality conflict.. no more no less..

social hint: 
Good enough..


> I have used glass diffusers for around 10 years. Probably used a dozen different types and not once did I notice any noise, especially to a level that would prevent me from using them.


Bump:


houseofcards said:


> I'm betting that most that respond to this will either say they hear no noise or the noise level is so low it's not a factor. To say your wife hates it or you hear it in the next room.....:laugh2:


again.. tone..

2 here had noise.. 2 didn't..




> As I'm experimenting w/ different types and sources for CO2 diffusers, I'm finding that the smaller the bubbles you get, the more likely it is to make noise.
> 
> Since I have an Eheim and DIY CO2, the noise tends to be intermittent and noticed by the others in the house. My glass diffuser chirps kind of like a cricket (drowning cricket?). My stainless steel one tends to quietly (but audibly) belch/hiss lots of bubbles - I think it generates more back pressure than the glass one. Other air stone types (polymer, limewood etc.) are quiet, but generate larger bubbles, so I'm worried about losing a higher % of my CO2.
> 
> ...


http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...53689-does-your-glass-co2-diffuser-chirp.html



> I have an ada diffuser and an aquatic magic diffuser. The ada one makes more noise than the other one, probably due to the smaller bubbles coming from the ada one. But its not really audible unless you get close to the tank, and everything else is silent. I actually kinda like the sound though.


http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/9-equipment/165203-co2-diffuser-noise.html



> "Slight" hum? Haha. Mine make me want to gouge my own eardrums out on occasion. But you eventually learn to live with the sound as white noise.





> Hi All,
> 
> This evening I have set up my first Pressurised system, All has gone well apart from the Diffuser. It is making a very loud hissing sound that is not even bearable! All of the CO2 is squeezing out of one small corner of the Ceramic Disk which is creating a sound similar to a toilet ballvalve that is letting by.
> 
> I have the pressure at around 1 bar and the flow at 1bps at the moment. I soaked the Diffuser for a few days before using it (like you do with air stones)


https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/noisy-co2-diffuser.17448/





> I actually had the same with one of my diffusers. As soon as it would push the co2 through the ceramic disk it would make a hissing sound. I did not have a leak. I guess it's just the design of the diffuser. I have the same sound with my inline atomizer but is almost unhearable.





> CO2 Diffuser - are they all noisy?
> 
> Postby M&S » Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:17 am
> Hi all,
> ...


http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=226171




> The Easy Aqua 4 in 1 Super Atomiser has an extremely compact CO2 plate which means that when CO2 is forced through it, the bubbles are really tiny. As a result they ‘hang’ in the water, floating around doing their business. The longer the CO2 stays in contact with the water, the more it’s absorbed. This means you need less CO2 and makes having a decent ceramic plate all the more important. Traditional (cheaper) diffusers have basic ceramic plates. CO2 can be pushed though them very easily but the bubbles are larger and shoot to the surface. This means they aren’t absorbed and you need much more gas. As the bubbles pass through a glass diffuser plate, they can make a high pitch, irritating noise. Because atomisers have a much tighter plate, you don’t get this noise.


http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/blog/tag/co2-2




> Co2 Diffuser Noise Hurts Fishies Ears?
> So my nano Co2 diffuser makes a really high pitched squeaking noise when the bubbles come through at 1bps or slower.
> 
> Do you think this noise hurts my fishies ears? I would hate to think it does.


http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/2...59-co2-diffuser-noise-hurts-fishies-ears.html

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/9-equipment/141079-quiet-co2-diffuser.html



> the only one I've used that is dead silent is a bubble ladder....but those are pretty hideous looking.I've tried ceramic diffusers, wood block air stones, Insert in HOB filter and they all make noise.



http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/equipment/57465-noisy-glass-ceramic-co2-diffusor.html


----------



## IntotheWRX (May 13, 2016)

battle of pride here


----------



## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

I go by my own experience. You have a habit of simply attaching links to everything. It's gotten you bad information many times. Where are the thousands of posts here on TPT that complain about in-tank diffusers that are so loud they upset the wife and you could hear them in the next room. 

I'm not saying it can't happen based on certain variables I'm just saying this isn't a problem of any scale if your talking about noise to the level your indicating

ADA only uses glass diffusers. I don't recall any warning on their products saying "Don't place within 5000 feet of sleeping, eating, TV watching, your wife, etc as it can be very distracting. It's just a silly argument to think that the normal noise produced is of a level your indicating.


----------



## IntotheWRX (May 13, 2016)

houseofcards said:


> I go by my own experience. You have a habit of simply attaching links to everything. It's gotten you bad information many times. Where are the thousands of posts here on TPT that complain about in-tank diffusers that are so loud they upset the wife and you could hear them in the next room.
> 
> I'm not saying it can't happen based on certain variables I'm just saying this isn't a problem of any scale if your talking about noise to the level your indicating
> 
> ADA only uses glass diffusers. I don't recall any warning on their products saying "Don't place within 5000 feet of sleeping, eating, TV watching, your wife, etc as it can be very distracting. It's just a silly argument to think that the normal noise produced is of a level your indicating.


bro NYC got you too rough. come over to cali to chill

diffusers give out a hissing sound. thats fo sho

sometimes its louder on one setting sometimes its more quiet. 

cheaper ones tend to be louder, better quality tends to be smoother. 

at the worst, i could hear my diffuser in the next room. a very slight white noise hss ss ss ss ss ss

Bump:


houseofcards said:


> I go by my own experience. You have a habit of simply attaching links to everything. It's gotten you bad information many times. Where are the thousands of posts here on TPT that complain about in-tank diffusers that are so loud they upset the wife and you could hear them in the next room.
> 
> I'm not saying it can't happen based on certain variables I'm just saying this isn't a problem of any scale if your talking about noise to the level your indicating
> 
> ADA only uses glass diffusers. I don't recall any warning on their products saying "Don't place within 5000 feet of sleeping, eating, TV watching, your wife, etc as it can be very distracting. It's just a silly argument to think that the normal noise produced is of a level your indicating.


bro NYC got you too rough. come over to cali to chill

diffusers give out a hissing sound. thats fo sho

sometimes its louder on one setting sometimes its more quiet. 

cheaper ones tend to be louder, better quality tends to be smoother. 

at the worst, i could hear my diffuser in the next room. a very slight white noise hss ss ss ss ss ss


----------



## Ken Keating1 (Nov 22, 2017)

My diffuser was definitely making noise. It was an Up, Model D-522. Flow was 20 to 25cc/min. I think I installed it correctly, the bubbles are supposed to go up, correct?


----------



## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

Ken Keating1 said:


> My diffuser was definitely making noise. It was an Up, Model D-522. Flow was 20 to 25cc/min. I think I installed it correctly, the bubbles are supposed to go up, correct?


I'm not doubting what your saying. I'm saying it's not the norm. To have noise that you hear at all let alone noise that you'll hear in the next room. Besides my own experience which is pretty lengthy I used to as a side jig setup planted tanks/aquascapes at businesses and residences. I always used co2 and I always used glass diffusers. I never once got a call saying. "My kids doing his homework and he can't concentrate because of the hissing in his tank. Or if the tank was in a conference room "We can't hear ourselves think, we're going insane with this hissing sound coming from the fishtank" 

The ADA thing is Zen, calmness, some how I think loud hissing would kinda ruin that ideal. LOL


----------



## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

I have a doaqua glass diffuser on my daughter's mini-m. It makes a hissing noise when pushing the co2. Also have a mr-aqua one and same thing. My LFS uses diffusers on all their tanks, every single one makes a slight hiss, it's just the nature of the beast.


----------



## Ken Keating1 (Nov 22, 2017)

@houseofcards, to be honest, I agree, my situation may have been a rare occurrence, a production issue, or some other issue not taken into consideration. I've also seen quite a few setups in LFS where the glass diffuses are very quiet. There's lots of variables(pressure, flow, depth of diffuser in tank, etc) in these setups that could change the characteristics of the system such that what would work in one tank may not work in another tank.


----------



## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

gus6464 said:


> I have a doaqua glass diffuser on my daughter's mini-m. It makes a hissing noise when pushing the co2. Also have a mr-aqua one and same thing. My LFS uses diffusers on all their tanks, every single one makes a slight hiss, it's just the nature of the beast.



Today...today...today. I consider...consider...consider myself...myself...myself the luckiest man on the face...face...face of the earth...earth..earth.”


----------



## madcrafted (Dec 23, 2017)

I'm starting to worry that I may be going deaf. I suppose I need to schedule an appointment to have my hearing checked.


----------



## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

madcrafted said:


> I'm starting to worry that I may be going deaf. I suppose I need to schedule an appointment to have my hearing checked.


Yeah you and me both. 

Although a slight hiss as described by @gus6464 is a lot different than a hiss that throws the wife into a hissy fit and you could hear it in the next room. I mean most things in the aquarium make a little noise, but not enough to get you to change equipment over it.

How does ADA do it? Noise cancellation co2 aroma?


----------



## madcrafted (Dec 23, 2017)

houseofcards said:


> How does ADA do it? Noise cancellation co2 aroma?


The ballast "hum" from all those MH lamps cancel it out maybe? :grin2:


----------



## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

madcrafted said:


> The ballast "hum" from all those MH lamps cancel it out maybe? :grin2:


Yes, its a big elaborate scheme to cover up the noise coming from their diffusers since they haven't fiqured out how to bring inline and reactor type diffusers to market yet.


----------



## doylecolmdoyle (Sep 22, 2015)

I use several glass diffusers the kind that hang over the the side of the tank, they all make an annoying hissing / chirping noise, drove me crazy at first but I got use to it, some styles are quieter than others but with the hang over the rim style I always get some noise. I havent noticed noise from stainless steal diffusers or the kind that you run co2 tube rather than hang the glass over the edge.


----------



## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

doylecolmdoyle said:


> I use several glass diffusers the kind that hang over the the side of the tank, they all make an annoying hissing / chirping noise, drove me crazy at first but I got use to it, some styles are quieter than others but with the hang over the rim style I always get some noise. I havent noticed noise from stainless steal diffusers or the kind that you run co2 tube rather than hang the glass over the edge.


Well that's a good point. I don't use the ones that hang over the edge. Always thought I would break them, etc. I only use the ones where the tubing is inside the tank with the short stem and there is no noise to speak of.


----------



## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

You guys reminded me of a joke, apropos of nothing

What is "Family Champagne?"

The man is drinking, the wife is hissing.


----------



## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

@houseofcards, you ever run any of them at low bps? 

The cheapest ones you can get on eBay always end up making noise for me, but it is much louder are low bps. It's like the pressure isn't consistent enough to push out all pores and instead everything gets pushed through a few larger pores which makes the noise, sometimes even a chirping sound.

I've moved to reactors mostly, but I've found the SS ones with replaceable discs to work much better than the cheap eBay glass ones. Never had the money for quality ones from ADA or whoever...


----------



## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

@natemcnutty, my go to ones are the cheap ebay ones usually in a 3 pack for $12, never heard any noise. Most of the tanks I've done as of late are nanos (less than 5G) so I actually use a very slow BPS. I don't here anything sitting next to the tank. 

If someones says they hear it in the next room or it's so loud the wife is complaining I have to say that's not the norm or no one would use them.


----------



## madcrafted (Dec 23, 2017)

So this thread is still hisssssssing along? lol I guess there's too many experiences with noise to deny. Maybe we just got lucky with ours @houseofcards? I run mine at low flow too... around 40 bpm on my 5 gallon.

As for the SS versions, I've been looking at this one for one of my 2.6g nanos: https://www.amazon.com/CO2-diffuser...-3&keywords=stainless+steel+co2+nano+diffuser I see that you can buy replacement disc too. There's no reviews on it though but it does look nice and slim. Perfect for a shallow tank, if it don't hiss. :wink:


----------



## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

Hey, hisssssing along LOL. That SS looks nice. I think the variables are the ones with the long stems that go over the edge and the exaggeration of the noise level. If that was the case they wouldn't be usable. 

Since this thread started I noticed my fish make a smacking sound when they eat and theres a little splashing sound from the filter return. Better hope the wife doesn't start complaining or it will be no fish and no filter for me.


----------



## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Were you born annoying or did you have to work up to it?


----------



## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

Were you born a cyborg?


----------



## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

no but at work they just call me Mr. Evil...


----------



## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

I was just thinking of a word that rhymed with Krol but I forgot what it was :wink2:


----------



## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

Right now, I'm using the "Atomic Precision Co2 Atomizer" that NilocG sells. It's a bazooka style. It's in a 40 breeder and there's no noise from it at all. Running about 4 bps @ ~35 PSI.

I will preface that I'm new to co2, I just barely got into it and I believe this weekend marks the 6th week with it running. So far I like the atomizer, but I'm still trying to find an optimal surface agitation to injection level to saturate the tank without gassing the livestock.

FWIW here is the product: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01EM4O8DO/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## chvvkumar (May 5, 2012)

Related question. Does any one know of clear CO2 safe tubing? I find the black tubing to be not as flexible and it causes problems with positioning the diffuser.


----------



## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

chvvkumar said:


> Related question. Does any one know of clear CO2 safe tubing? I find the black tubing to be not as flexible and it causes problems with positioning the diffuser.


Clear CO2 Resistant Tubing | Green Leaf Aquariums


----------



## madcrafted (Dec 23, 2017)

chvvkumar said:


> Related question. Does any one know of clear CO2 safe tubing? I find the black tubing to be not as flexible and it causes problems with positioning the diffuser.


Or you could just use silicon tubing if you don't have to run 25 feet of it. Never had a tube pop off and never noticed any CO2 leaking from the tubing itself. How would one even measure the CO2 loss compared to tubing like Tygon is beyond me. Just another overblown topic that only high tech junkies worry over. >


----------



## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

madcrafted said:


> Or you could just use silicon tubing if you don't have to run 25 feet of it. Never had a tube pop off and never noticed any CO2 leaking from the tubing itself. How would one even measure the CO2 loss compared to tubing like Tygon is beyond me. Just another overblown topic that only high tech junkies worry over. >


Oh man, you and I are in sync. I was about to say the same thing. For the distance the co2 travels the loss is a not issue although others will let you belief it is because it's "technically possible". I pick up the black silicone stuff all the time, very flexible.


----------



## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

madcrafted said:


> Or you could just use silicon tubing if you don't have to run 25 feet of it. Never had a tube pop off and never noticed any CO2 leaking from the tubing itself. How would one even measure the CO2 loss compared to tubing like Tygon is beyond me. Just another overblown topic that only high tech junkies worry over. >


It's been measured... couple bucks at most...depending on length and pressure....


----------



## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

jeffkrol said:


> It's been measured... couple bucks at most...depending on length and pressure....


Like clockwork. Are you running it up the Empire State Building?


----------



## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

houseofcards said:


> Oh man, you and I are in sync. I was about to say the same thing. For the distance the co2 travels the loss is a not issue although others will let you belief it is because it's "technically possible". I pick up the black silicone stuff all the time, very flexible.


it's not "technically" possible it is actually a fact.. but Like I said above, not really much of a concern..



> You would lose about 136cm3 of CO2 in 24hrs. 3 bubbles a second ~19440cm3 in 24 hrs, so that would be about 0.70% of your CO2 lost through the silicone airline.
> 
> I think this shows clearly that CO2 leakage through the tubing itself can be a real issue at higher pressures (especially with silicone tubing), but under the conditions all of us will be using the tubing (1-2psi max) it is really a non-issue.


https://barrreport.com/threads/co2-tubing.4806/

you really do a disservice but "editorializing" everything..Facts are good enough..


----------



## madcrafted (Dec 23, 2017)

jeffkrol said:


> It's been measured... couple bucks at most...depending on length and pressure....





houseofcards said:


> Like clockwork. Are you running it up the Empire State Building?


Bwahahaha. You guys crack me up.


----------



## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

jeffkrol said:


> it's not "technically" possible it is actually a fact.. but Like I said above, not really much of a concern..


So are you saying on an average tank fill of $15 your losing $2 worth of co2, running the tubing an average of 5-7 feet for most home aquarists. That would be around a 13% loss.


----------



## chvvkumar (May 5, 2012)

varanidguy said:


> Clear CO2 Resistant Tubing | Green Leaf Aquariums


Thank you! Exactly what I was looking for.



madcrafted said:


> Or you could just use silicon tubing if you don't have to run 25 feet of it. Never had a tube pop off and never noticed any CO2 leaking from the tubing itself. How would one even measure the CO2 loss compared to tubing like Tygon is beyond me. Just another overblown topic that only high tech junkies worry over. >


Tried the normal air tubing. It had trouble maintaining the pressure in the line (total length was below 3 feet). The tube would expand too much and act kind of like a long balloon.


----------



## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

houseofcards said:


> So are you saying on an average tank fill of $15 your losing $2 worth of co2, running the tubing an average of 5-7 feet for most home aquarists. That would be around a 13% loss.


Well one can' actually make ANY decision w/out facts.. was worst case really..
higher the pressure, longer the run more loss through Si tubing..
Tom Barr link has all the math..

Now if I wanted to SCARE people I'd just post this chart w/ no comment..
https://www.coleparmer.com/tech-article/tubing-selection-guide

Or add this:


> If you're running a 5 pound tank that means it would self discharge in 18 months, or decrease a ideally 9 month fill interval to 6 months. I don't think that is insignificant. If you're running into a ceramic diffuser, you can expect even higher losses. I'm running CO2 into an very fine airstone located within a reactor underneath my tank. My gauge pressure, measured at the input to the bubble counter is 3.8psi, though I'd expect in-tank diffusers are higher than this.


----------



## IntotheWRX (May 13, 2016)

im glad there is now peace


----------



## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

@jeffkrol

Since you seem to be in love with Tom Barr this is what he said in that thread you linked and I quote:

"The main issues are distance the CO2 travels, the thickness of the tubing involved, pressure is a huge factor and the temp.

I really do not think you lose much either way.
I think it's more a marketing deal to sell $$$$ tubing.
I like good sticky thick walled tubing that stays flexible.

This prevents real leaks, not the marketing leaks.

A 10% CO2 tank loss cost you 2$ based on a rather high 20$ refill. 
Now at 1-2$ per ft, vs say .20 cent a foot, it'll take a few years to off set the cost if you have say 10-20ft of tubing.

*Still, chicken feed $, but hardly worth discussing further..........you could make more $ sitting here than you'd save *

Regards, 
Tom Barr"

My thoughts exactly


----------



## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

chvvkumar said:


> Thank you! Exactly what I was looking for.
> 
> 
> 
> Tried the normal air tubing. It had trouble maintaining the pressure in the line (total length was below 3 feet). The tube would expand too much and act kind of like a long balloon.


I like silicone tubing for glass diffusers. It's easy to get on and off without being concerned about breaking the glass. With higher pressure atomizers I've noticed that it balloons a bit also and prefer to use the more rigid varieties of tubing.


----------



## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

houseofcards said:


> @*jeffkrol*
> 
> Since you seem to be in love with Tom Barr this is what he said in that thread you linked and I quote:
> 
> ...


Why do you hate science so?????
First most calc's were done at LOW pressures in the range of a psi or 3. And what Tom based his statement on..
You do understand things change w/ pressure right?

Secondly, any tubing BUT SI is just fine.. and Si is only marginally bad w/ the UNDERSTANDING that losses can (and will) increase w/ higher pressures/temp/and length.
Third I STATED you lose a buck or 2 and is a MINIMAL expense..

You just want to argue for the sake of arguing..
I just want to put EVERYTHING on the table.. Let people decide..

Si isn't even rated for 50psi as well
working pressure rating for Si tubing at 1/8-1/4 is 20psi...

my fav tubing..  If you want an opinion..









Pressure ratings good, stays pliable, low permeability, good size like the color, expensive..


----------



## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

This one is the bomb.

https://www.mcmaster.com/#6516t14/=1cardb9

Can handle up to 60psi and it's very soft in between pure silicone and regular vinyl tubing. Pure silicone tubing has crappy psi rating at like 5-10 max.


----------



## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

jeffkrol said:


> Why do you hate science so?????
> First most calc's were done at LOW pressures in the range of a psi or 3. And what Tom based his statement on..
> You do understand things change w/ pressure right?
> 
> ...


I love science! When it actually concludes with something worthwhile and/or significant which this is not. Regardless of which tubing you use it doesn't even add up to a can of beans at the end of the month. T. Barr is a man of science, but he also has common sense and knew it wasn't worth continuing the conversation. 

As far as arguing, go back to post #57 when another member and then I stated the effect of different tubing is overblown and you chimed in with your "it's been calculated". So it was you that really started the debate. It is overblown because I've used all the different tubings for years and they all work and none of them amount to any real $ lost especially with the length the average person runs the tubing.


----------



## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

jeffkrol said:


> Si isn't even rated for 50psi as well
> working pressure rating for Si tubing at 1/8-1/4 is 20psi...
> 
> 
> ...


It's actually worse. Si pressure rating is more like 10 with the really expensive stuff and 5 for the normal priced stuff.

Also
https://www.mcmaster.com/#5552k23/=1cat88z

Much much cheaper than you current supplier.


----------



## madcrafted (Dec 23, 2017)

Ista actually includes silicon tubing with their CO2 cartridge kits. Granted these are intended to be used with nano tanks, where overall tubing length isn't more than a few feet. 

The only time I ever had a tube balloon on me is when I used one of those cheap bubble counters and had the output/input swapped. Never had a problem otherwise. I have tried several different diffusers, all the way down to the super fine ceramic "atomizing" type. I have had them clogged by green algae to the point where there were only a couple streams of bubbles being dispersed. So the use of silicon tubing can't be that bad. Just sayin'


----------



## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

The ADA Co2 Advanced System also includes silicone tubing as well as their gray parts list: suctions cups, silicone tubing, check valve)


----------



## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

no-one was saying it's "bad" per se..and silicone is really "the only" tubing for glass attachments..
Obviously and as HOC will verify si tubing is not blowing out everywhere..  

I had that type of tubing on my noisy (LOL) diffuser..and running 50psi-ish but facts are facts and ratings are ratings 
No sense arguing w/ "people" who actually test this stuff...
whether we see it or not....ratings are usually quite conservative however..and the systems are open.


----------



## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

So after all that it seems we've come full circle back to this:



madcrafted said:


> ...Just another overblown topic that only high tech junkies worry over. >


----------



## madcrafted (Dec 23, 2017)

I'm sure there are situations where larger scaled setups need to run further distances, but the average person with a basic setup (fish tank on a cabinet/stand with CO2 tank right beside or underneath said fish tank) doesn't really have the need for expensive CO2 proof tubing. Especially when most cases they want something that just works and they can order on fleabay or the zon. The CO2 loss is so minimal that it doesn't justify the cost of the pricey stuff. That's the point @houseofcards and I were trying to make. If someone wants to go nuts and have the very best just because they can, that's fine too. I'm not going to talk them out of it. In that case you might as well throw in a $50 bubble counter, a $150 reactor, a pretty aluminum tank, a GLA Pro-1 regulator and of course some Tygon tubing and you're all set.


----------



## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

Thank you @madcrafted. That's all I'm usually trying to say. Most people fall within the meaty part of a bell curve and that's the advice I usually dispense.


----------



## madcrafted (Dec 23, 2017)

houseofcards said:


> Thank you @madcrafted. That's all I'm usually trying to say. Most people fall within the meaty part of a bell curve and that's the advice I usually dispense.


I'm usually on the same page as you are. Where I get all technical is with water parameters. I've even been accused of dishing out chemistry lessons for it too. To me, this is where the focus should be put. I've only been here at TPT a few months and have noticed quite a few folks that have really nice tanks and equipment that puts mine to shame, yet they can't grow anything but algae it seems and their livestock is often on death row. All the fancy equipment, bright lights and yellow drop checkers in the world won't make them any better if they don't put the work in and gain the knowledge needed to be successful at keeping plants and livestock together.

Some posters you need to just feel out. If money is no object, then I usually don't give advice. I don't have any personal experience with high end equipment so I can't speak on it. I usually post on subjects where I have personal experience. If I can save someone a few bucks in the process, that's good too.


----------



## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

ALL knowledge is important.............
This includes mechanical and chemical parameters of hoses
Theory and function of regulators
Morphological and Physiological plant responses to light and spectrum
pH and ammonia toxicity
balancing CO2/nutrients/light 
water chemistry
List goes on

There are really *no exceptions*.. just graduations.. 


Some people can be quite successful w/ nothing more than a tank and shop light..
Some people aren't "emotionally" satisfied w/ such..
For those that want "expensive" (I'm not one of them believe me) they should know what that expense gives..
and even then facts won't cut it for some.
Like lights, you can tell someone that $50 light is just as good as the $500 light but they like the "look" (multiple criteria) better and get it,
you can't save someone a buck if they don't want to save that buck.. Not your prerogative to decide.

ALL the facts, from engineering concepts to practical use should be on the table..and let THEM decide.

nobody "needs" any of this stuff...........
It is a VALID opinion and not to be minimized..like saying you don't NEED that because I don't.............

BTW about the only reason I even bring up the Tygon tubing is, for the amount most need (say 10ft) $20 or so won't break the bank..
AND it has FIT better than any of the tubing I've found locally, at any price, Didn't harden at the ends over time (over 1 year) 
has the psi rating for my system, and I personally like the charteuse color.
To state the "data" that went into the choice is not a DISSERVICE but a service.
NEVER ever said anyone NEEDS it, unlike those that say "all you need...ect" ..

Not your call............


$2/foot is vs 10 cents a foot for other stuff is STEEP and not denying it at all..
also never said you can't live without it..

Pointing out alternates, the facts of such alternates, and the cost of such alternates is NOT a crime..nor a disservice as long
as one doesn't talk down to them..........or minimize their choice..
There are always times when one wants to shout "don't do that dummy" but the real key is NOT doing that..

Hopefully we all have free will and choice left.. even at our own risk.

Not you or me to decide where one should save a buck...or spend a buck.. 
Most of the time when one tries to steer people to cheap they actually usually go the other way.. Odd.
Or show them the cheapest and the most expensive and they go for the middle.. 
Usually need a rock solid reason..........



> have noticed quite a few folks that have really nice tanks and equipment that puts mine to shame, yet they can't grow anything but algae it seems and their livestock is often on death row.


Unnecessary statement..
Both cheap tank setups and expensive kill things..Equipment has LITTLE to do w/ it.
"Average" tank w/ actually "average" costing parts..if one puts retail vs DIY as a factor..warts and all


----------



## madcrafted (Dec 23, 2017)

jeffkrol said:


> Unnecessary statement..
> Both cheap tank setups and expensive kill things..Equipment has LITTLE to do w/ it.
> "Average" tank w/ actually "average" costing parts..if one puts retail vs DIY as a factor..warts and all



The point I was trying to make was lost somewhere...


----------



## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

Let me help.

I think and stop me if I'm wrong is that @madcrafted was referring to many new journals, posts where people go all out, educate themselves and buy the most expensive equipment, many times full ADA, but they don't take the same time to learn about starting up the tank and the water conditions necessary to be successful. 

No one is saying knowledge isn't important, but at the end of the day when what's gleaned from that knowledge isn't worth a few pennies and the effort was much greater there's no point to continue to use that knowledge with no real gain. In the "real world" things are defunded, ended, cancelled, etc because it's not worth the time and money to pursue it for such little gain. It's all about the context we are dealing with. It's not black and white. For the vast majority here, the pros/cons of which tubing your co2 flows through is pointless.


----------



## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

The point Jeff is trying to make is that your whole post was pedantic. This is a hobby and like all hobbies the money you spend on it is irrelevant.

My other hobby is rc cars. My 2wd buggy setup easily cost me over a grand as it's a kit made for racing. Are my driving skills as good as the pros who race the same car? Absolutely not, and I do I care? Nope. Half the fun is building and tuning a pro kit. There are guys at the track who barely race and have thousands spent on different cars and radios. Does anyone care that they spent $2k on the latest x-ray or Kyosho when they don't race? Nope.

Hobbies exist to enjoy yourself so who gives a crap if one guy likes to buy ultra high-end gear while the other likes to buy cheap stuff. Funny how I never see the guys who drop thousands on setups belittling the ones who spend 10 bucks yet the opposite is quite common. If someone wants to drop $2k to have an algae farm that's their problem so why do you care?

Sent from my LGUS997 using Tapatalk


----------



## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

This whole "argument" started because someone wanted to put actual numbers on co2 tubing loss that at the end of the day means NOTHING. Point to the OP is that you can use any tubing. It's not going to move the needle enough to really care. That's right it is a hobby. It's not about absolute values that mean squat. ADA uses Silicone tubing. I guess they need to hire an engineer.


----------



## madcrafted (Dec 23, 2017)

It's nearly impossible to make a post without someone getting offended or wanting to challenge you. It's waaaaay more difficult dealing with human beings than fishies. I don't remember what this thread was even about... oh yeah diffusers. I think the OP gave up after the first page.


----------



## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

houseofcards said:


> This whole "argument" started because someone wanted to put actual numbers on co2 tubing loss that at the end of the day means NOTHING. Point to the OP is that you can use any tubing. It's not going to move the needle enough to really care. That's right it is a hobby. It's not about absolute values that mean squat. ADA uses Silicone tubing. I guess they need to hire an engineer.


you should read it and think..









ADA uses Si tubing for "last mile"...Rest is NOT silicone tube..ADA is smarter than.............



> *The ADA CO2 System uses two different types of tubes: ADA CO2-Pressure Resistance Tube and ADA Silicone Tube. Soft ADA Silicone Tube is used for connections to glassware, but this type of tube is not suitable for long-term use due to its swelling effect which can result in an escape of CO2. The ADA CO2-Pressure Resistance Tube, free from risk of air escape, is used for long piping. This hard tube is connected firmly just by inserting it into ADA CO2 Attache Regulator and the branching part. It can also be connected to the ADA Check Valve. The ADA Check Valve is used to connect ADA CO2-Pressure Resistance Tubes and ADA Silicone Tubes.*


https://www.aquasabi.com/aquascaping-wiki/co2/lets-start-with-a-co2


Japanese understand engineering. Americans.. apparently not so much..........must be an ego thing......


----------



## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

The ADA situation would not sway me one bit. I've been using silicone tubing for 10 years without issue on 6-8 different types of regulators with varying working pressures. 

You have posted a ton of links that turned out to be inaccurate because you weren't going by your own experience but simply relying on links. Would you like me to point them out. Ones first-hand experience trumps (no pun) all

The extent you go through to "win" threads and have the last say ALL the time is very unsettling.


----------



## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

houseofcards said:


> The ADA situation would not sway me one bit.


Why am I not surprised..



> You have posted a ton of links that turned out to be inaccurate


Only by your opinion.. heavens you are wrong.. Like the above ADA thing..
And you think "I" have an issue...

What lengths?.. took me a minute or 2 to prove that ADA is smarter than you..


----------



## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

jeffkrol said:


> Why am I not surprised..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


See you have to have the last word. You can't help yourself. You have to "win" the thread no matter what. So sad! Would you like me to post all the links that you have been proven wrong by fact not my opinion.


----------



## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

I'm thinking we might need pictures to see whose fish is bigger...


----------



## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

houseofcards said:


> See you have to have the last word. You can't help yourself. You have to "win" the thread no matter what. So sad! Would you like me to post all the links that you have been proven wrong by fact not my opinion.


Go for it... and post the vid of your regulator as the tank empties as well..


----------



## doylecolmdoyle (Sep 22, 2015)

I use soft grey silicon tube, never had a problem, even one length is about 2-3 mtrs and outdoors, the regulator is split 3 ways running 3 tanks, all with silicon tube. Never had an issue and havent had to refill the bottle yet (2kg bottle) its been running for a fair few months, 24/7 co2.


----------



## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

That will be the case for most. An indiscernible loss of co2 that isn't worth the thought to worry about it. I have silicone tubing running the length of a 15 ft room at 42-45 PSI without any noticeable loss.


----------

