# DIY pH down?



## Cyberian (Dec 9, 2003)

Anyone know how to make some? Although the pH downs are relatively cheap, so am I. Therefore, I wish to know if I can make my own pH down that is safe for aquarium use.


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

Well since 99.99% of planted tank owners use CO2 to lower the pH I doubt you will get many answers. The use of pH adjusting products is not normally sanctioned for planted tanks due the the fact most of them are phosphate based, think phosphoric acid, and high phosphates and high light equal algae.

And of course the question must be asked why you feel the need to wage chemical warfare on your water to lower the pH?


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## Cyberian (Dec 9, 2003)

The pH level increases to 8.0 frequently. I don't have any special rocks in there; just gravel. Also, I have some neons.

I'm bad at chemistry. So I wouldn't know what contains what. Is there any common product out there that I can use as a substitude for pH down? What about vinegar, would that work?


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## Ace (Dec 10, 2003)

CO2 is the best for me.Some chemicals might be dangerous to plant...i might be wrong too. :wink:


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## digger (Feb 18, 2003)

Is the gravel the epoxy coated stuff from the fish store? It wasn't intended for hard water cichlids or made of crushed coral, right? Have you tried testing the ph of your tap water?


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

You did not state what the rested pH of your water source is. If you are getting your water from the tap then draw some water and let it sit for 12-24 hours and then test the pH. Also you should test the kH and the gH. Then report these figures to us. If the pH is less than 8.0 after the water has rested then something in your tank is raising the pH. 

The reason you should test the kH is because if you have a high kH and try and adjust the pH lower it will just bounce back.


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## Cyberian (Dec 9, 2003)

My tap water before and after 24H is 7.0; neutral. My gravel doesn't raise pH; it was not intended for cichlids. All the products in my aquaria are bought from fish stores with aquarium-safe approvals.

Those CO2 machines are too expensive. I have 7 tanks, and that would cost me a lot. I want to know a cheaper method of lowering pH level that is aquaria-safe.


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## Knetter (Nov 4, 2003)

DIY!!!


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

Aquarium safe doesn't mean it won't screw with the pH and kH, it means it will not kill the fish. How sure are you that your gravel will not raise the pH? Have you tested it? Take some gravel from the tank and put it in a cup with some tap water. Then wait a few days and check the pH. Also you state that your tap water is 7.0 even after resting. Is this from a city water system or what? It's very unusual that the water pH doesn't change as the dissolved gases escape. Also do you know the kH of the water? If the kH is low then it will allow large rapid changes in the pH due to lack of buffering. But this most commonly would be swings down but could go up if there is something being leached into the water.

CO2 for seven tanks in one room would not cost that much.

Regulator $50
Cylinder $80
Manifold $10
Needle Valves $70
Fittings $25
Reactors DIY $25
Tubing $15

Total $275 or $40 a tank. Not bad at all. Much cheaper than chemicals in the long run.


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## Cyberian (Dec 9, 2003)

$275 is a lot. Not even all my fishes costs that much. I'm a fish enthusiast; not a fish extremist. I'm not that fanatical on spending money like crazy on fishes. For $275, I can buy a almost new 100+ gallons tank or pay my rent to the landlord.

I'm possitive the gravel doesn't change the pH. I have tested it myself before. And if it does, it should be metioned on the bag; I did not buy assorted gravel. The gravel is natural; no colouring/coating added.

The tap water is obviously from the city/town. The test yields 7.0 before and after. The chart scales are either -.5/+.5. Even if the test before and after is different, it would be more or less the same since it the chart can't measure the _exact_ number.

I don't really have to explain this; it's common sense. pH will change in time. Nothing stays fine for ever. What I do _not_ want to know is, why does pH change after a month. It's been a month, I don't expect water pH to be perfect as it was. Also, there's the fact that I _want to_ lower the neutral pH level down to 6.5 for my neons and other slightly acidic fish. I want to know how to make some cheap pH down.


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## Shakey (Dec 7, 2003)

Cyberian said:


> Also, there's the fact that I _want to_ lower the neutral pH level down to 6.5 for my neons and other slightly acidic fish. I want to know how to make some cheap pH down.


Ok, simple answer for you. Do nothing! Your neons will live longer if you do nothing, cause if you add commerical pH down, and you have a high kH all you will be doing is creating high pH swings what will stress and kill your neons faster then steady pH 8.0 will.

Note: I kept neons for about a 1.5 to 2 years in water that is very close to 8.5

If you are hellbent on getting to 6.5 then you will have to supply more info. Most notably, do you have a skeliton of hard coral in your tank for decoration? How about sea shells? Do you have large decoative rocks in your tank?

If you said no to all 3 questions, its your gravel... throw it away and get different gravel.


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## Ace (Dec 10, 2003)

One of my fish cost $1750..believe it? Yours is considered cheap. :wink: 

By the way ph at more than 8 is it safe for plants?sounds like they will choke from the ph


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## Aftica (Nov 26, 2003)

$1750

I hope it tap dances, cooks, and does the laundry! :lol:


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## wellbiz (Aug 6, 2003)

$1750 :shock: For that is better clean its own tank not to mention the whole house..... I am interested.... What kind of fish????


Jason


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## Cyberian (Dec 9, 2003)

All 3 answers are no. And no for gravel too. My 5.5 and 10 gallons has no gravel and reacts the same way.

Neons will only mate in slightly acidic water. That is what I'm trying to do. I want my neons to have fries. I'm well aware that neons can survive fine in up to 8.0 or so.

In contrary to the pH raising materials. i.e. shells and corals. Is there rocks out there that I can buy that keeps my pH at a stablelized slightly acidic level?


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## wellbiz (Aug 6, 2003)

I have heard of people using peatmoss to lower PH, as it leaches into the water... I have read of people putting it in their filters.... Might be something to look into...

Jason


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## anonapersona (Oct 19, 2002)

If you can find out what is raising the pH to 8.0 and stop that, the normal biological processes will tend to lower the tank pH. Starting at 7.0 you ought to get to 6.5 pretty easily. 

Basically, in trying to lower pH or soften water, what you need to do is to remove things from the water, not add. 

You can use filtration to remove those things, like an RO unit ($$$). Or you could cut the water with a bit of distilled water, but not much, maybe up to 25% or so.

If you can get pure rainwater, then filter that to remove pollutants (floss and carbon) you can add some of that to the tank to dillute the salts and minerals and such that make the KH and pH what it is.

Peat works because it absorbs the minerals and it adds acids. Search on Peat and you will fins info on how to brew up peat tea to add to the tank to lower the pH and KH. 

But, all that is worthless if there is something in the tank that is leaching carbonates into the water. As the pH falls, the leaching will be worse. 

I think you need to get some muratic acid and test the gravel in the tank, the vinegar test is not dependable. 

Hmm, does someone know which test kit it is that has acid in it? I vaguely recall that there is one kit, like KH or GH, maybe?


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## Ace (Dec 10, 2003)

Sure your tap water is neutral? If you can't find the source of the material that cause the ph rising,pH lowering stuff might not work cause the source will rise the pH back!

wellbiz it is an asian red arowana....


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## wellbiz (Aug 6, 2003)

Ace said:


> Sure your tap water is neutral? If you can't find the source of the material that cause the ph rising,pH lowering stuff might not work cause the source will rise the pH back!
> 
> wellbiz it is an asian red arowana....


Ace, That is a truly awsome fish.....


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## Cyberian (Dec 9, 2003)

I'm sure there is _absolutely_ nothing wrong with the gravel.

Perhaps is the aquarium salt I been using. Not too sure if that raises pH levels or not. I'm trying to get rid of the odour some of the plants carry. I constantly add more plants to my aquaria; therefore, I'm contantly adding new doses of salt to get rid of the smell.


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## George Willms (Jul 25, 2003)

Salt is not going to get rid of the smell and is not going to help your plants either. Water changes are the way to go if your planted tank has a smell.


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## tombsc (Nov 24, 2003)

You could try this :

http://fp.marksfish.f9.co.uk/peat.htm


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## fishyboy (Nov 16, 2003)

I agree ace that fish better clean your house lol


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## ginnie5 (Jan 9, 2003)

http://hjem.get2net.dk/Best_of_the_Web/peat page.html
http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/filtration/softening.shtml
I used to try and mess with my water. It was a royal pain. The water where we used to live was truly horrible though. Kh and gh were off the charts. I stopped counting at 50 drops! Ph constantly was swinging. i tried a tap water purifier for a while but that would be too $$$ for so many tanks. I ended up using a water softener pillow. Now thankfully I have really good water. I think that if I needed softer water than what I have I would go for rainwater. I checked the levels on it one day just for the heck of it.....no kh at all. so it seems that if you want cheap that would be the way to go. I don't know how many gallons per day you need but I have seen ro units for like $100..bare bones whatever that means. Good luck!


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## digger (Feb 18, 2003)

Cyberian said:


> Neons will only mate in slightly acidic water. That is what I'm trying to do. I want my neons to have fries. I'm well aware that neons can survive fine in up to 8.0 or so.


And you said you weren't an extremest :wink: Breeding neons certainly isn't the easiest thing to do. Not only do you need water with a ph of 6.8-7.0 you also need very soft water. That means getting the total disolved solids down. The way you do this is by using RO water. So you're looking at spending at least $300 on a decent RO unit.


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

I have managed to trigger spawning in neons a few times by adding washed riversand to the tank, however the eggs are very sensitive to, erm, well everything including light, I would definatly not suggest you try this in a planted tank. I think i had them spawn 4 or 5 times, on each occasion I could see the eggs, on each occasion they all went rotten.


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## secretagent (Mar 13, 2004)

I heard that peat moss works in lowering the PH and was about to suggest Like brewing it in a pot then using the exese Water and adding as nessesary. I also would forewarn you about the stench it gives out and draining might be a hassel. WELL GooD Luck!!!!


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## Rikko (Jan 24, 2004)

I'd read a lot about people using muriatic acid to lower their pH.. It's never been a big issue where I live so I've never bothered. Peat works well to soften and drop water's pH as well.

What you might find easiest is to head to a nursery (or pool supply store?) and pick up a bottle of pond pH down (pool pH down may work too, but I wouldn't vouch on how accurate it is).. It will probably go quite far and be affordable. I can get bottles of pH down for about $20CDN and I believe it'll do 1250 US gal.

Or, DIY CO2 works quite well. Brewing it with yeast rather than pressurized cylinders is far cheaper but can be a little flaky - I have good luck with it, anyways. Mine cost me about three bucks to make with a pop bottle and some airline hose, plus whatever you want to do for a diffuser.

Also, did you do a gravel test? I am extremely suspicious of *any* substrate in the tank when something is going awry.. pH doesn't just go up for no reason. Draw some tap water and test the pH. Add some washed gravel from your tank to that water and shake it up for a few minutes. Maybe even let it sit for a few hours. Now test the water again. If it's higher, you have your culprit. Use a very small amount of water in the gravel to make it work faster.


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## Rolo (Dec 10, 2003)

Guys, this post is very old and the the writer of it has been inactive for over 4 months. Don't think he's looking for any help.


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