# Soilless Grindal worms - Easy as pie! (with pics)



## Tankoholic (May 24, 2013)

Also, I hope this sub-forum was a reasonable place to put this since it is *technically* fish related. If not, my apologies to the moderators!


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

I use coco fiber substrate. It works too.
I'd plug up the lid holes with filter floss to keep out bugs.


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## Tankoholic (May 24, 2013)

mistergreen said:


> I use coco fiber substrate. It works too.
> I'd plug up the lid holes with filter floss to keep out bugs.


The original culture I received was in coco fiber, I believe. Silly me mixed that mite-free culture into potting mix that I had baked, assuming that baking it would kill potential pests. It didn't. Lesson learned! I'm pretty sure that I have a springtail infestation as well. Have you been successfully pest-free with all your grindal culture in coco fiber?

Also, +1 on the filter floss. I need to get some myself!


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## TheDrake (Jul 18, 2012)

Thanks for posting your thoughts and techniques! I have tried soilless--really wanted it to work. But it just didn't work for me. The worms did not take off like they do on soil, and the water under the pads starts to stink quickly (and badly). I am contemplating trying again with some sort of drip system to flush the water through, just haven't gotten around to it yet.


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## Tankoholic (May 24, 2013)

TheDrake said:


> Thanks for posting your thoughts and techniques! I have tried soilless--really wanted it to work. But it just didn't work for me. The worms did not take off like they do on soil, and the water under the pads starts to stink quickly (and badly). I am contemplating trying again with some sort of drip system to flush the water through, just haven't gotten around to it yet.


You're right about that - the worms definitely love the soil above all other substrates. I've had my cultures brimming over the top with worms using soil. Unfortunately, I did not do the necessary precautions this time around with my new cultures and they're now infested.

This is definitely going to be a learning experience for me as I have only kept soiled cultures. Some people report great success with it, so I figured it was worth a shot. I'll definitely heed your warnings about changing the water. They can't possibly stink worse than microworms, can they?  Even in instant potatoes, microworms can still have an offensive odor!

I've still kept my infested culture as a contingency plan in case it doesn't work out >.< Perhaps I'll grab some coco fiber from the LFS and make a comparative study.


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## Monster Fish (Mar 15, 2011)

Nice write up. I'm in the process of restarting my grindal worm cultures because of mites as well. In my experience with coconut coir, the mites would still show up. I think it's because I mixed contaminated coir from my original purchased culture or they snuck in through the small holes on the cover. Either way, I'm gonna try both the scour pad method and the coconut coir method. This time however, I'm gonna plug the air holes with filter floss.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

I've resigned to live to the springtails and mites. They're in my whiteworm culture and for some reason not in the grindal. All you can do is control their population through washing them off the container lid and removing the food while they're attacking it. 

They're harmless when you think about it.


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## Tankoholic (May 24, 2013)

I've accepted that pest infestation may be inevitable with certain worm cultures. If it wasn't for my hedgehog, I wouldn't be too concerned with them. Hedgehogs has specific needs due to their sensitive skin. Mites can wreck havoc on their skin and cause detrimental quill loss. I feel like I owe it to my hedgehog to find an alternative way to culture these guys so I don't risk his health. I'd feel terrible if I accidentally infested him with mites!


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

Tankoholic said:


> I've accepted that pest infestation may be inevitable with certain worm cultures. If it wasn't for my hedgehog, I wouldn't be too concerned with them. Hedgehogs has specific needs due to their sensitive skin. Mites can wreck havoc on their skin and cause detrimental quill loss. I feel like I owe it to my hedgehog to find an alternative way to culture these guys so I don't risk his health. I'd feel terrible if I accidentally infested him with mites!


Oh, interesting. The best thing is what you're doing by soaking the worms. Worms will sink and bundle together and mite/springtails will float. You can suck out the worms leaving the mites behind.

I have to deal with mold in my old batches. I'm slowing repopulating new batches.


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## Tankoholic (May 24, 2013)

A little bit of an update on my soilless culture:

After day two, I noticed a bit of a stench just like TheDrake had mentioned. It wasn't terrible, but it was noticeable once the top was taken off. It was on par with what rotting food in a damp container should smell like. I did an immediate water change and I have since decreased the amount of water in that I have within the cultures. The water level is now just enough to cover the bottom (about 1mm deep). This has seemed to help with the stench. Also, I spray the scour pads daily to ensure moisture.

Despite the mild odor, the culture has progressed nicely. In fact, my soilless culture consumes more food faster than my soiled culture. Maybe it's because they have no competition now, or less medium to travel to get to the food. If I stick a piece of cat food on a scour pad, I can have a sizable swarm of worms in a matter of minutes.

Time will tell if soilless will become my preferred method, or a viable method for supporting an entire colony of fish.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

Less food so it doesn't spoil before the worms can eat it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## dprais1 (Sep 12, 2012)

I would like to know how this is working. I'm thinking I can do something similiar with whiteworms.


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## ivan.f (Aug 12, 2011)

I have actually recently started doing this with a culture from MonsterFish who gave me a starter culture with the soil less method. I've never kept them before but they're doing very well.


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## DBlauj (Apr 17, 2012)

Great write up. I recently had my culture of worms infested with mites also. Was contemplating on going soil less. Keep us updated on how your culture progresses.


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## doughnut (Jul 22, 2010)

My apologies for bringing a dead thread back to life but a common theme in this thread is a foul odour. I'm thinking about getting a culture of grindal worms but I really don't want a smell coming from it. How bad are we talking, how stron strong is it?


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## leemacnyc (Dec 28, 2005)

The dreaded Pipette of Death!!! Oh my!!!


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## SDK (Jan 26, 2014)

My experience with several years of culturing Grindal worms;

I have never had any problems or issues with odors keeping them on coco fiber. If you are doing it right, you will get a mild, earthy smell when opening the containers, and that's about it. I keep mine in the kitchen cabinet beneath the sink. It's a good, dark, temp stable location for them.

Several years back, I gave the soil free method two good tries. I found these cultures to be much more finicky, as well as prone to crashing and odors...

Having said that, others seem to have done well with this method. I would recommend getting a good culture going on coco fiber. Then, if you want to go soil free, keep the coco culture going as a backup. Either way, smell should not be a factor unless you are doing something else wrong...


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## jrill (Nov 20, 2013)

SDK said:


> My experience with several years of culturing Grindal worms;
> 
> Keeping them on coco fiber I have never had any problems or issues with odors. If you are doing it right, you will get a mild, earthy smell when opening the containers, and that's about it. I keep mine in the kitchen cabinet beneath the sink. It's a good, dark, temp stable location for them.
> 
> ...


+1 my experience exactly.


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## doughnut (Jul 22, 2010)

SDK said:


> My experience with several years of culturing Grindal worms;
> 
> I have never had any problems or issues with odors keeping them on coco fiber. If you are doing it right, you will get a mild, earthy smell when opening the containers, and that's about it. I keep mine in the kitchen cabinet beneath the sink. It's a good, dark, temp stable location for them.
> 
> ...


Yeah thats what I figured. If it smells, something is wrong. I where would I get the coconut fiber from? The reason for at least starting it there is so that the culture will mature faster and grow better before possible going soilless?


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## SDK (Jan 26, 2014)

doughnut said:


> Yeah thats what I figured. If it smells, something is wrong. I where would I get the coconut fiber from? The reason for at least starting it there is so that the culture will mature faster and grow better before possible going soilless?


 Coco fiber is available in the reptile dept of any chain pet store. You can get it loose or in compressed bricks.

I recommended starting with a coco culture because the odds are better that you will have success with it. An inch or two of damp coco fiber is going to create a more stable environment. I had the soilless cultures go bad to the point where they were completely wiped out very quickly. If I did not have the soil cultures as a backup, I would have had to procure starters all over again...


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## garfieldnfish (Sep 25, 2010)

I have tried all three methods. Soilless, potting soil and coco fiber. The coco fiber worked best for me and will be the only way I use from here on. I have kept grindal worms for almost 10 years now. Still from the original starter batch. But I always have several cultures going at the same time. If too many new cultures do well I sell the extras at my local fish club's auction. I start 5 new batches about every 4 to 6 months and never ran out of grindal worms for my fish. I bought a 2 pound coco fiber brick on line over 4 years ago and still have about 1/2 of it left.


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## doughnut (Jul 22, 2010)

Sounds great! I'll probably have to wait until late june to start something. Going on vacation and I dont want to ask my house sitter to take care of worms..feeding the fish alone makes me nervous enough. It does seem like a fantastic way to produce cheap high quality food on an ongoing basis so I'll definately give it a good go. 

One more question, I've seen several people say they use cat food or kitten food to feed the worms. Is there a specific reason for this? Would dog food be the same?


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