# Tharsis' 2.5 Gallon DSM non-CO2 tank - the long wait begins



## tharsis (Oct 9, 2009)

I decided that I wanted to make a very low maintenance Walstad inspired Non-CO2 tank. I have no idea if this will work on such a small tank because the total biomass will be pretty low but what the heck. And I am sure I will make tons of mistakes as I haven't really done much research on how to do it, but we will see how it goes haha. 

I also want to try a glosso carpet to make things more exciting roud: along with some traditional higher light stem plants.

I derimmed a petco 2.5 gallon tank










Prepared it for spray painting










the result was a nice mirror in the noon day sun haha, I also spray painted a hanging light.










I added an inch of top soil. Lots of sticks and fertilizer balls, this is probably my first mistake. :icon_bigg










Wanted to do a stump as usual, but I wanted a nice intricate one, so I added this piece and then capped it with sandblasting sand. Hopefully the sand will be thick enough to keep all the soil in place.










Here is a close up of the stump. Lots of intricate textures and caves. I am planning on housing shrimp so this should keep them entertained. 










Here is the FTS with the light and no water yet. I am using a 20 Watt Spiral CFL in the fixture. 










And the desk that it is sitting on. That shelf poses a bit of a problem for the light haha, so I think I will have to find another place for it. The beauty of the nano is that they can b easily moved!










As for planting, I am thinking of doing a glosso carpet, with blyxa japonica in the back. And some stems, not sure what yet. I also want to add a moss, but that is also undecided. I have always used boring java moss just because I always have tons, but this time I think I want to class it up a bit :red_mouth

I think to start though, I am going to plant the glosso fairly dense in the front and have a ton of sunset hygro in the back to keep algae at bay, once it looks like things are going well, I will slowly take out the weed and replace it with blyxa and other nicer stems. 

I was also thinking of possibly doing a dry start for the glosso, but I have no idea if that would work. Any opinions would be great!!

I will probably put some mountain minnows to start, and then down the line I want to add some shrimp. Probably just RCS.

Thanks!


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## JakeJekel37 (Mar 27, 2011)

Great start. And I'm also extremely jealous of that stump.


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## soc200 (Feb 26, 2011)

"I added an inch of top soil. Lots of sticks and fertilizer balls, this is probably my first mistake. "

"I am planning on housing shrimp so this should keep them entertained. "

Those might not work out well together. Keeping water quality stable is hard enough with a 2.5g...even before adding ferts and topsoil. Just a thought.


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## tharsis (Oct 9, 2009)

The soil is key for a non CO2 method in order to keep the algae at bay but I am unsure if the one I used will be ok or not. It is what I had lying around though so I thought what the heck  This method seems to be very successful for larger tanks and I am curious if it will work on a smaller tank. 

The shrimp will be farther down the line when everything has stabilized. I am planning on monitoring the water parameters pretty regularly so i will get a good feel for the stability as well. 

I know shrimp don't do well with CO2, but I don't know about them being intolerant to ferts. I guess I will have to look into that.


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## meowfish (Jan 5, 2011)

Oh my, I like that stump!


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## tharsis (Oct 9, 2009)

thanks  

I spent several hours today trying to find the right one! I discovered that getting a piece of wood suitable for such a small tank can be quite a challenge.


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## PinoyBoy (Mar 14, 2008)

Stump is PERFECT!

The only thing I would have done differently was to screen the soil. From the looks of it, it looks like they're mostly shredded sticks.


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## tharsis (Oct 9, 2009)

Yeah, I think I may take it out and try a different soil. I acted hastily, luckily I haven't filled it with water so it is a fairly easy switch. I am fairly certain that I should use potting soil for this (I will look into it) instead of top soil, but I need to use one with less sticks.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

You don't hear the often "hey I like your stump", it looks very good and the more plants the better, plus you can do a fishless cycle. Beware of the silicon gassing out, you may want to fill your tank with water and let it set until this gas off and then refill, before you plant. Lots of plants will help with natural soil in the tank so over plant with cheap plants that you can trash later if you have to. This would also be a good tank for a dry start, you should do some reading before you go ahead. I'll give some material that may help; http://www.aquariumalgae.blogspot.com/ and http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/2890-Step-2-chose-a-method-and-learn-it-well plus http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/8644-Ammonia-Source-for-Fishless-Cycling and the best one http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/433-Non-CO2-methods good luck!!!!!!!!!!


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## tharsis (Oct 9, 2009)

^ thanks, got some good info from the non CO2 thread, by Tom Barr.

So I screened the soil, and replaced what I had with this. 










I added a thin layer of peat and then about an inch of the screened soil, capped by the silica sand. 

I plan on planting it today, I am literally going to stuff it with plants from my 75 gallon tank.


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

im loving that!


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## gillie (Jun 13, 2010)

That stump is a killer piece!


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## Aphyosemion (Oct 15, 2004)

I love that stump!! HAND IT OVER!!
This should be an interesting experiment. I was considering using regular soil to set up my tank at one point, but there were so many possible problems that I eventually decided just to pick up some Eco-Complete and play it safe. I didn't want to risk killing off my shrimp. 
Also, I would be afraid of the peat moss affecting the PH of the tank as well as making it look like tea.
Good luck with it! You are off to a fantastic start already, just because of your stump, haha.


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## tharsis (Oct 9, 2009)

^^^Thanks! I searched high and low trying to find the right stump so I am glad my effort is appreciated!

I just added a dash of peat on the bottom. I read that a peat layer is good for these tanks but I was a little concerned so I just lightly sprinkled a bit. I doubt it is enough to do anything. Especially with an inch of soil and an inch of sand over top.

EDIT: dammit  I just spent 45 minutes planting the tank, and was halfway filled up when the stump decided to float... grrrrr. I had actually drilled it with a 1" bit about 4" deep and stuffed it with rocks. I thought it would weigh it down enough...guess I should have tested it first. Stupid mistake. Anyways so now the stump is submerged in a bucket. I will have to empty the tank out yet again and lay some more soil and sand. I think I will keep the plants planted until i am ready to set up the stump again.


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## tharsis (Oct 9, 2009)

so my wood is still soaking, I imagine it will take ~4-5 days. I am thinking of ditching the glosso and doing a dry start HC.


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## tharsis (Oct 9, 2009)

OK I ordered the HC and i am definitely going to do a dry start. I may try to drystart some stauro repens and rotala rotundifolia as well. I will let my beautiful stump soak for several weeks, in the mean time the plants will establish strong root system and the soil will become more stable. 

I will still go with the non-co2 method once I fill the tank with water (~ 6 weeks).


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## helen (May 14, 2011)

*haha*

haha 
very interesting start and very new action.

By the way, can we use more bright light?


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## tharsis (Oct 9, 2009)

thanks  yeah things have taken a different turn. In the end, I am glad the wood floated on me because it allowed me to re-evaluate and I have had a chance to do a bit more research on the method. 

If you mean more wattage for the light, i would say no, not for this method. In fact, I am probably going to scale down my 20 watt CFL to a 14 Watt.


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## demonr6 (Mar 14, 2011)

Okay so I am going to ask what everyone else is afraid of.. where did you get that stump?


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## tharsis (Oct 9, 2009)

ha, that stump was part of my secret stash 

jk, I actually collected it myself, I had it for sale in my sales thread, #2 on the list.

















But I decided to trim it and use it for myself for this tank. I would rather keep most of the wood I sell for myself but I just don't have the tanks for all of it


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## jeffvmd (Apr 16, 2010)

Hah.. he still has a secret stash of wood.:icon_mrgr
You got an eye for nice pieces.roud:
Can't wait for the piece..s you are sending over for my 2.5g.:bounce:


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## demonr6 (Mar 14, 2011)

So essentially you played hide and seek with your wood?


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## tharsis (Oct 9, 2009)

jeffvmd said:


> Hah.. he still has a secret stash of wood.:icon_mrgr
> You got an eye for nice pieces.roud:
> Can't wait for the piece..s you are sending over for my 2.5g.:bounce:


 Yeah I call my secret stash the 'elite prime private selects'


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## tharsis (Oct 9, 2009)

I got my HC yesterday from jkan0228 and it looked quite nice. There was tons of it!










I set-up my workstation, and in anticipation of the back breaking labour I had a few beers and watched the bruins-lightning game on TV.










The wood is waterlogged already but I think I am going to grow the HC without the wood. And when I am ready to flood the tank i will put it where i want it. 

After an hour of planting I filled up way more than I thought, and i still have a bunch left over that I will probably put in my 75. I figured with the left over space I should try a few other plants so i added rotala rotundifolia, glosso, and sunset hygro to see how they would do. I am probably going to add some stauro repens down the line.



















So now comes the boring waiting part. I have a lot of surface area covered so it probably shouldn't take more than 3-4 weeks before I am ready to fill this sucker up. 
The tank looks really sterile right now and I can't wait to get to the next stage.


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## tharsis (Oct 9, 2009)

I don't know if the DSM is for me haha, it has only been two days and I am already getting impatient to fill the tank up. I keep staring at the HC willing it to grow.

It seems like things are going ok, I have saranwrap on top of the tank to keep the moisture in and it seems like the high humidity is staying. There is moisture on the walls and on the saranwrap. I am concerned about the temperature though, I am not heating it whatsoever and the temperature in the house gets in the mid 60's at night. I hope this won't have any adverse affect. I haven't noticed anything wrong yet though. 

The HC looks like it is adapting from the shipping. I am starting to see some brighter green foliage emerging, so that is a positive sign. The Hygro/rotala/glosso are all looking pretty rough but that is to be expected as the old growth dies off. I am already seeing new growth on all of the plants so that is good. 

Here are some pics from this morning:


























...this is going to be a long month


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

Its going to be a long month but the result is going to be spectactular! I can already tell 

I love that stump! Not very often I see one that is that small and keeps the scale of the small tank size.


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## tharsis (Oct 9, 2009)

thanks  I will have to entertain myself by monitoring every new leaf that sprouts out haha.


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

Start a time lapse! Have a photo be taken every hour, or maybe even just every day. Thats when you get to see it REALLY grow.


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## tharsis (Oct 9, 2009)

not a bad idea although I think a pic/hour may be a bit much haha

I think a pic/day would be pretty neat.


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## swoof (Jun 30, 2010)

It sounds like an intersting idea, just remember a pic an hour is less then a second of time. If you take enough pictures and stream them together into a movie it'll look neat


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## demonr6 (Mar 14, 2011)

I feel for you man. I just picked up a new 20g long and it has been sitting there for a few days waiting for me to figure out what I am going to do with it. I have plenty of wood now soaking, but that is about it. I am going to try the dry start method though, it seems interesting and a something new I have never tried.


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## sockfish (Jul 11, 2007)

That.......stump! I MUST HAVE THAT STUMP! Arrrrgh!!!!!!!! :flick:

Socks


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## tharsis (Oct 9, 2009)

it's mine!!! ALL MINE!!! MUAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAH... :icon_twis

I need to take a pic of my HC


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## DvsDev (Dec 7, 2010)

I remember seeing in a shop once a camera specifically for time lapse photography.
It was only small, 2mp, built in daylight sensor with a little tripod and everything, perfect for setting up next to a nano and watching everything come in.
I was going to get one but couldn't really think of what I would use it for then.
I think it was for gardening?!?! (was pretty inexpensive too since it was a fixed lens, manual focus, 2mp camera that had to be initially plugged into a pc for setting up (no screen too))


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## Justindew (Mar 19, 2011)

I am going to be attempting basically the same dry start method you are with soil under moon sand in my case. I was wondering did you add any ferts to the water you added? I am just concerned that the plants wont be able to get the ferts they need from the soil until the tank is filled with water. Are you already seeing new growth from the HC?


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## jeffvmd (Apr 16, 2010)

I don't think I can bear waiting for a month before filling in a tank with water.
Can't wait to see the HC take off.


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

Lol you didn't tell me about this thread when I sold you the HC! Subscribed.


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## tharsis (Oct 9, 2009)

Justindew said:


> I am going to be attempting basically the same dry start method you are with soil under moon sand in my case. I was wondering did you add any ferts to the water you added? I am just concerned that the plants wont be able to get the ferts they need from the soil until the tank is filled with water. Are you already seeing new growth from the HC?


I am seeing some minor growth right now, i think it is getting established. It was grown submersed so I am assuming that there will be a few days to change. I have read that it is not necessary to have fertilized water, the substrate has plenty to go around. The plants take in the ferts through their roots anyways. 




jeffvmd said:


> I don't think I can bear waiting for a month before filling in a tank with water.
> Can't wait to see the HC take off.


I know this is really a pain. Hopefully the HC will take off soon so I atleast have something to track haha. I think I am going to attach the fissidens I got from you to the stump and have that growing in my 75 gallon while I wait.



jkan0228 said:


> Lol you didn't tell me about this thread when I sold you the HC! Subscribed.


haha thanks again there was a ton of it...way to much for this puny little tank. I have been sticking the remnants all over my other tank, everywhere I look I see little bits of HC now.


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## tharsis (Oct 9, 2009)

So can I attach fissidens with aquarium safe super glue? I really don't want to mess with string and mesh and all that stuff because it always seems to make such a mess. 

The glue will mean that I can place the moss exactly where I want it, but I don't want to kill it.


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## jeffvmd (Apr 16, 2010)

If you are using superglue, go for the gel type and just apply a really tiny drop.


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## Aphyosemion (Oct 15, 2004)

I would just recommend using some string or stuffing some of it into a crack or something. That is what I usually do. It will attach and start growing pretty quickly.
As for the dry start, you have to either have the patience of a saint or just be really disinterested to use that method. When I get a new tank ready to go I can't even wait until I have a good layout and all the plants together half the time before I am filling it up and fiddling with it.


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## tharsis (Oct 9, 2009)

^ well we will see how saintly I am then haha

Here is a pic of the HC today, no real change, if anything some of the leaves have died. Hopefully it is just adjusting and will bounce back.










The glosso and rotala are both doing very poorly, but the hygro polysperma adapted immediately and has already grown a few inches. No wonder this plant is considered invasive...holy cow. 

I glued the fissidens onto the wood, here is the pic.


















I was trying to avoid covering the whole piece, and stay with the contours of the wood.

I just put into the 75 gallon and will let it grow until I am ready to flood this tank. I forgot that crazy glue turns white in water, so unfortunately I see these blobs of white poking through the moss, kinda ugly right now, but it shouldn't take too long to cover up. I will post pics when the lights go on.


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## jeffvmd (Apr 16, 2010)

Same thing happened as I did it on rocks. rows of white in between green have appeared.
Off to a nice start with fissidens on that trunk.roud:


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## tharsis (Oct 9, 2009)

thanks  

how long did it take (if at all) to cover up the ugly white spots?


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## jeffvmd (Apr 16, 2010)

I just had them started when I posted the fissidens. 
Still a bunch of ugly white lines on the rock until now.


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## tharsis (Oct 9, 2009)

baaahhh...all my HC is turning black!!#[email protected]*

I think I may be cooking it. I had my light resting right on top of the tank and when I take off the saran wrap it is REALLY hot in there. So I raised the light 3-4" up...hopefully this will help. What a bummer, I think I have lost like half of the HC.


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## tharsis (Oct 9, 2009)

Well I failed miserably at growing the HC emmersed... it all died and turn black on me, pretty bummed about it. I think I may just fill it up and add in a bunch of stems. And work on a moss carpet of some sorts.


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

i wonder why it didnt work for you.. to hot maybe?


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## tharsis (Oct 9, 2009)

Yeah i think I may have cooked it, lesson learned.

I just got one of those spectacular 3x3 portions from Francis Xavier, it looks so lush and beautiful, I think I am going to get it established in my 75 gallon and then try it again emmersed down the line.


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

I was soo tempted to get one! They looked beautiful! But I decided that I should get the algae figured out before adding plants. hopefully you can figure it out. I would suggest another plant, but I can't think of anything that would keep the same nice scale in such a small tank


You can call me Bob


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## tharsis (Oct 9, 2009)

haha, i know! I would have loved to have gotten the whole six feet just to take a nap on it. I am going to put my portion in my 75 gallon, it is currently empty of fish so I have my CO2 blasting. 

I may just try a carpet of fissidens for this tank, it will look neat to have it morph from the carpet onto the stump...i think 

Did you ever track down a stump for your tank? I haven;t had much time the last week to do much wood stuff, but i will keep an eye out if you are still looking.


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

Haha looks very comfy!

I did find a stump. But before I bough it I had another vision for my tank. I think this one is much stronger visually. Thanks anyways. I'll pm ya a picture of my newest sketch. Although I'm not sure it's something you would have. 


You can call me Bob


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

tharsis said:


> Well I failed miserably at growing the HC emmersed... it all died and turn black on me, pretty bummed about it. I think I may just fill it up and add in a bunch of stems. And work on a moss carpet of some sorts.


Well I got a few stems for sale and I promise I won't screw up this time :tongue:


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## tharsis (Oct 9, 2009)

haha no worries I got plenty to fill it up...


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## roni (Aug 28, 2006)

I started my drystart and have had a little die off but not a ton so far. How hot did yours get? BTW, that tree found itself in my low tech tank and looks great!


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## tharsis (Oct 9, 2009)

Sweet glad to hear you are happy with the tree 

Do you have a thread going with some pics?

I don't know how hot it got in the tank but it was sealed off completely with saran wrap and I had the fixture right on the tank. When I removed the saran wrap I literally felt a hot blast of air come out of it. Hopefully you will have better luck 

I actually just filled this tank last night, stuffed it with plants and let her rip. Can't wait to get some fire reds in there. I will get some pics this evening.


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## roni (Aug 28, 2006)

started a thread though need to get some pics up. Mine is hot when I remove the saran wrap to spray it down daily. I've had a little melt so maybe I need to let it breath occasionally. I did reduce the light a lot though.


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## tharsis (Oct 9, 2009)

Yeah it sounds like you should be ok, mine turned black very quickly, within a few days it was all black mush. Look forward to seeing the pics when you get them up. 

So I snapped a couple pics of the tank tonight before lights out:














































I think I will spread the HM across as a carpet. Looking forward to get some shrimp in there.


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## jeffvmd (Apr 16, 2010)

Stump lookin good with the fissidens.roud:


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## PinoyBoy (Mar 14, 2008)

Tank looks great. No higher res pics?


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## tharsis (Oct 9, 2009)

thanks, no that is about as HD as the pics will get from my camera. 

I actually just found a small tripod in the garage today and I may try that to see if there is an improvement.


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## Alaizabelle (Apr 7, 2011)

How's the tank going?


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