# easiest, most effective substrate



## msawdey (Apr 6, 2009)

Hi all,

Been gone from the forum for about 2 years now... We moved across country, but I am back in the hobby

That being said, I am starting up a 20h for rams and maybe an angel. I am looking for a substrate suggestion that is:
1. easy to install, easy to plant in, and easy to clean (i don't want to have to gravel vac poo every week or even at all) and 
2. is still effective at growing.

Tank will have co2 and i will use ferts of course.

My instinct tells me to go with eco-complete as I have use it in the past and had decent results. In an old tank, I mixed with with pea gravel which gave it a riverbed look. This site always has a plethora of information, but the problem is the more I read, the less confident I become in what I planned to use.

I prefer not to use sand or flourite sand (was a total pain in the butt last time as cleaning that stuff while living in an apt is horrible) and I really have not considered MTS with a cap (again, going for easy)

What do people suggest?


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## lamiskool (Jul 1, 2011)

I find aqua soil the eaiest to use an most pleasung to the eye. Eco complete will probably be the easiet though as aqua soil take a few extra steps as it leeches ammonia/ammonium? In the beggining so you need to cycle/do water changes the first few days/weeks. On the other hand with eco complete you will have to make sute to dose ferts right away as eco complete has no real nutrients for plants.


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## Compass (Jul 18, 2014)

I have had great success with Eco-Complete though I found it a bit difficult to plant stem plants in (they tend to come out if not anchored in some way). Rooted plants like swords and crypts do very well. Whatever substrate you decide on just know that in order to not gravel vac you will need to plant it very heavily. A lightly planted tank will not be able to break down the detritus and fish waste and you'll get build ups of nitrates. 

Considering your stock, I would suggest that an angel be kept in nothing smaller than a 30 gallon but larger than that would be most ideal.


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## Aqua nut (Jul 5, 2014)

Eco complete does have a planted tank substrate now. Course red and black.
Contains all the necessary mineral nutrients for luxuriant aquarium plant growth PLUS beneficial bacteria to rapidly convert fish waste into natural food for your aquatic plants.


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## lamiskool (Jul 1, 2011)

Aqua nut said:


> Eco complete does have a planted tank substrate now. Course red and black.
> Contains all the necessary mineral nutrients for luxuriant aquarium plant growth PLUS beneficial bacteria to rapidly convert fish waste into natural food for your aquatic plants.


Does the label say what nutrients are in it? Ur not talking about the laterite are u? Also I remember eco complete planted substrate advertised that it comtaibed nutrients for plants when in reality it did not, only reason im asking


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## msawdey (Apr 6, 2009)

lamiskool said:


> Does the label say what nutrients are in it? Ur not talking about the laterite are u? Also I remember eco complete planted substrate advertised that it comtaibed nutrients for plants when in reality it did not, only reason im asking


I have used eco before, so Iknow what I am getting into... ultimately it is probably what I will go with

But Eco does not have nutrients to my knowledge. I know it does have ammonia and will leach it for a few weeks. Eco has a high CRC, but I believe you are thinking of laterite also. Which I may put a base down. I will be EI dosing most likely.

Bump:


Compass said:


> I have had great success with Eco-Complete though I found it a bit difficult to plant stem plants in (they tend to come out if not anchored in some way). Rooted plants like swords and crypts do very well. Whatever substrate you decide on just know that in order to not gravel vac you will need to plant it very heavily. A lightly planted tank will not be able to break down the detritus and fish waste and you'll get build ups of nitrates.
> 
> Considering your stock, I would suggest that an angel be kept in nothing smaller than a 30 gallon but larger than that would be most ideal.


Ive kept angels with really good success in 20s.... I had a pair grown from quarter size and breed in my old planted 20. I would never go smaller than a 20 for a pair though... if I do get a pair, I will be holding off on the rams. 

As for the gravel vac, I guess I should have been ore specific. Of course if there is a build up I will be using it. The problem with the word Gravel vac is it is a misnomer.. Many people think you actually have to vacuum the gravel throughly


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## Bloomer (Mar 22, 2014)

Flora Max is the same thing as Eco Complete at a lower cost and no risk of getting a bag full of rotten bacteria, which I have. It works just the same in my estimation. Flourite sand is a major mess unless stocking is very low, water movement is small and it doesn't need to be disturbed much.

Plain old Flourite is fine, too, but different, it locks together much tighter than Flora Max and is a little harder to set small plants. There's a Flourite color called "Dark" which is interesting; mixed with Black F M it looks very nice. Beware that by itself with many plant lights that have strong blue and red emissions, it's purple. With more balanced light, it appears dark brown.

Aquariumplants.com has a number of different colors of Aquadurt that are like FM, but the colors are nicer and prices similar.

I use Flora Max the most, but they all grow plants well and if rinsed through a wire spaghetti strainer, the clouds when adding water seem about the same. Poorly rinsed, Flourite is really cloudy.

Bump: I guess I should add that all the ones I mentioned require ferts, they're porous and hold nutrients well, like a clay flower pot, but the "analyses" of their chemical compositions are typical of rocks, doesn't mean much. Seachem and Aquariumplants don't claim their substrates add nutrients, not sure about CaribSea. Flourite is clay that's been fired and broken up, Flora Max Black and Eco are, to the best of my knowledge, puffed basalt. 

Huge surface area is the main advantage to these substrates.


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## msawdey (Apr 6, 2009)

Bloomer said:


> Flora Max is the same thing as Eco Complete at a lower cost and no risk of getting a bag full of rotten bacteria, which I have. It works just the same in my estimation. Flourite sand is a major mess unless stocking is very low, water movement is small and it doesn't need to be disturbed much.
> 
> Plain old Flourite is fine, too, but different, it locks together much tighter than Flora Max and is a little harder to set small plants. There's a Flourite color called "Dark" which is interesting; mixed with Black F M it looks very nice. Beware that by itself with many plant lights that have strong blue and red emissions, it's purple. With more balanced light, it appears dark brown.
> 
> ...


I have heard good things about FM in the past.... What might contribute to my decision between EC And FM is the fact I can order EC on amazon. Being in central Virginia I am learning quickly that we dont have a good selection of LFS.... so purchsing EC will be easy on amazon as I am a prime member. I check and see if Petsmart or petco around here have them.


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

Activ-flora has nutrients unlike eco and it's just as cheap. You should think about doing miraclo gro organics choice potting mix and capping it with activ-flora or eco.


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## Little Soprano (Mar 13, 2014)

Petco stocks Eco Complete.


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## CrypticLifeStyle (Jan 16, 2013)

If you want a tighter fit in Eco mix in I mixed in a bag of black Petco sand. I like how it turned out. Gives more of realistic dirt look as well.


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## msawdey (Apr 6, 2009)

CrypticLifeStyle said:


> If you want a tighter fit in Eco mix in I mixed in a bag of black Petco sand. I like how it turned out. Gives more of realistic dirt look as well.


Do you happen to have a picture Cryptic?


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## CrypticLifeStyle (Jan 16, 2013)

Maybe tonight, I'm in the office til at least 5pm EST


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## CrypticLifeStyle (Jan 16, 2013)




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## Pandanke (Jun 13, 2014)

I have been using Flourite underneath Eco Complete, and if necessary, with a mix of river gravel and PFS on top because I had some serious floating issues. The black sand mentioned above looks like a nice idea though and would probably help with my floating stem problems.

I found FloraMax at my local Petsmart but had already ordered Eco Complete, they also had Flourite (which I did buy) - it's beneath the plant in a tube display at my local shop.

I did not rinse my flourite at all, but I added my water through a breeding box and it is clear within an hour. Very minimal puffing and clouding.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

I have enjoyed my Fluorite, the only problem is the sand can scratch a tank if you are not careful, I don't use any magnetic cleaners with it. I can't remember if I used Floramax or what but it was very similar. Worked as well, didn't use it alone for very long, it ended up getting mixed into my Fluorite at some point. 

Now, is that the best, no, is it easy, yes. I think the Floramax or whatever it was required no rinsing, or at least I didn't rinse and had no issues. Fluorite pretty much should be rinsed really well, unless you are very careful about filling, and you may need to clean your filter soon after.


As for what I would buy at this point, Aqua Soil. I am impressed, it does the job, and no complaints, it's just not the "easiest". It's not hard to deal with, you just have to know a few things, all well documented. 


The one thing that is often not touched on. Clay baked substrate like Fluorite will likely last forever. Just keep using it, it will continue to work. Plus you have more choices in appearance. Something like Aqua Soil, or anything that is similar to real soil, it isn't going to last forever, you would usually replace it when you do a new scape or get a new tank. Some find it to deteriorate after about a year, others go longer, their are a few varieties to complicate that but it's not going to last you a long time. There is a pro to one side, a con to another their.

Lastly, the actually look of the substrate is important to me. I like AS Amazonia, it's a nice dark brown. Rarely do you see it but the Malaya is a light brown, not even sure if I have seen it in a tank. Then you have Africana which is pretty red. That is only 3 options, I only like one. With other substrates, you have maybe up to 5 choices. Not to mention you can do some soil and any color gravel under the sun. That really plays into my decision sometimes, I picked AS for the look as much as the function. I do have a fondness for black too, I reuse my Fluorite for that, but if I need more, I may just get some Petco sand in a pinch. I probably have 3-4 types of black in my substrate right now in my garage and I am certain it won't be the weakest link of my tank, if it is, dose ferts or use root tabs.


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## Rhenerie (Jul 8, 2014)

I love my new activ-flora tank. It locks all the plants down really well. It is really easy to plant, and as black as black gets.


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## msawdey (Apr 6, 2009)

i appreciate all of the comments. I think in the end to help save money and time I will most likely be doing an ecocomplete/very small gravel tank. 

Thanks all!

Bump: i appreciate all of the comments. I think in the end to help save money and time I will most likely be doing an ecocomplete/very small gravel tank. 

Thanks all!


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## Fishmasterj (Sep 11, 2014)

msawdey,

What did you end up doing? What's the progress? Pictures?

I'm curious. I'm setting up a tank with Eco-Complete tonight...


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