# pH of spiderwood, extremely acidic?



## Fireweed (Oct 11, 2016)

I have a 1 year old 75g tank with pressurized c02, it's been pretty consistent that once per week I need to add a teaspoon of Equilibrium to bring it close to 7. I test pH at least once per week. Basically it fluctuates from low 6 to 7 throughout the week.

A week ago I put in 4 "spiderwood" (soaked with water changes for 2 weeks).

I have now added 5, yes FIVE teaspoons of Equilibrium in the last 48 hours, and pH remains 6 (or under, bottom number on my kit is 6!

I'm assuming that's the wood? What to do? Fish/plants seem perfectly fine. about 48 hours ago I noticed many of the tetras were what seemed like extremely rapid-respiration, was worried about some form of gill infection but guessing it was just extreme acidity.

Anything I can do? Thanks.


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## natemcnutty (May 26, 2016)

First thing I'd check is the CO2. Are the fish gasping near the surface at all?

Tannins released by wood will lower pH, but I don't think spiderwood (roots of water azaleas) has much tannins.

Low 6's and even high 5's are fine for neons. What pH range are you trying to maintain?

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## bsantucci (Sep 30, 2013)

Why are you adding equilibrium to begin with? It's not worth messing with your pH of the tank honestly. The fish and plants will be fine. The wood is most likely bringing your pH down, but that's fine as noted above. The Tetras come from acidic waters and will be happy to have the lower pH with tannins.


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## Fireweed (Oct 11, 2016)

bsantucci said:


> Why are you adding equilibrium to begin with? It's not worth messing with your pH of the tank honestly. The fish and plants will be fine. The wood is most likely bringing your pH down, but that's fine as noted above. The Tetras come from acidic waters and will be happy to have the lower pH with tannins.


I think we live on different planets, as pH under 6 stunts plant growth and this is a planted tank...

Bump:


natemcnutty said:


> First thing I'd check is the CO2. Are the fish gasping near the surface at all?
> 
> Tannins released by wood will lower pH, but I don't think spiderwood (roots of water azaleas) has much tannins.
> 
> ...



Right now c02's 1.5 bubbles per second. In a 75 seems pretty moderate, the fish aren't gasping at all. I have seen what an OD of c02 does and that's not the problem here.

The spiderwood released much less tannins than I was expecting. Almost no staining.

The first thing I wondered was that my pH test kit was wrong and then wondered if the Equilibrium was bunk but checked them and all working as expected.

Somethings going on in the tank, the good part is the fish are ok and the plants haven't shown dieback. It's still 6 or under 6- as low as the pH kit will show... Which is scary as I'm fighting to get it to the mid 6's still off the charts is all I'm able to manage.


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## bsantucci (Sep 30, 2013)

Fireweed said:


> I think we live on different planets, as pH under 6 stunts plant growth and this is a planted tank...


Where planet did you get your info from? Here on Earth that's not true. My tank sat at 5.5pH regularly and all of my plants thrived. Many members here have tanks running under 6 pH w/o issue.

Additionally, you even said your plants are fine....


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## Fireweed (Oct 11, 2016)

I guess plants grow differently depending on your native water sources?

My experience has been: without c02 I was able to keep a pH of mid 7's, super hardy, 'easy' plants like Saggitaria subulata and Hygrophila sunset thrived. Shrimp were breeding like rabbits. I have naturally acid water but the Eco-complete was alkaline so it balanced with frequent water changes. 

Once pressurized c02 was added I tried 'advanced' plants and many failed. Over several weeks or a month I noticed none of the dozens of shrimps were carrying eggs anymore. They seemed to have dropped eggs currently carried. The easy plants I took cuttings from completely stopped growing. Sunset Hygrophila was not growing. 

I asked at the best aquatic plant store I've found in the city and they suggested adding Equilibrium until pH was in mid to high 6's. 

Immediately the plants began to bounce back. Shrimps are thriving. I'm able to grow Glosso and any other plant that did not survive when I was below pH 6. Only thing I can't get going is HC and perhaps that is the light. 

So right now, I'm worried about what is to me, a super acidic tank. My "master test kit" goes only down to pH 6 and since I'm under that, I'm concerned. 

I'm curious to those running a pH of 5.5, are you able to grow pretty much all of the advanced plants? Her, that's seems to be just out of the question.


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## bsantucci (Sep 30, 2013)

Fireweed said:


> I guess plants grow differently depending on your native water sources?
> 
> My experience has been: without c02 I was able to keep a pH of mid 7's, super hardy, 'easy' plants like Saggitaria subulata and Hygrophila sunset thrived. Shrimp were breeding like rabbits. I have naturally acid water but the Eco-complete was alkaline so it balanced with frequent water changes.
> 
> ...


Honestly, it sounds just that your water source was missing a few key things and you added them with equilibrium and the plants bounced back. Equilibrium is basically a GH booster. Are you fertilizing the water column?

Shrimp don't breed as much with co2 injection, so that may be what you saw with them. 

I never had much problem growing any plants, but that was also after years of learning. Proper substrate, fertilization, co2, light levels (not overdoing it), and good water and things should grow. Granted there are other variables like flow, but for the most part you should be all good.

Really though, adding GH booster is good for the water if you need it, but don't add it in an effort to maintain a certain pH. You're going to run into problems if you do that.


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## lksdrinker (Feb 12, 2014)

Fireweed said:


> I have a 1 year old 75g tank with pressurized c02, it's been pretty consistent that once per week I need to add a teaspoon of Equilibrium to bring it close to 7. I test pH at least once per week. Basically it fluctuates from low 6 to 7 throughout the week.
> 
> A week ago I put in 4 "spiderwood" (soaked with water changes for 2 weeks).
> 
> ...





Fireweed said:


> I think we live on different planets, as pH under 6 stunts plant growth and this is a planted tank...
> 
> Bump:
> 
> ...





Fireweed said:


> I guess plants grow differently depending on your native water sources?
> 
> My experience has been: without c02 I was able to keep a pH of mid 7's, super hardy, 'easy' plants like Saggitaria subulata and Hygrophila sunset thrived. Shrimp were breeding like rabbits. I have naturally acid water but the Eco-complete was alkaline so it balanced with frequent water changes.
> 
> ...



Is the OP measuring PH when the co2 is running? Do you understand the effect that co2 has on PH and that you should be seeing different PH values when the co2 is running vs when it is off (the added co2 should cause the ph to drop). Do you ever test GH and KH? I'm going to guess you have very soft water to begin with with very low gh and kh. Low KH can cause ph instability which might be what you're dealing with. Low KH and GH could also be the reason you had trouble with the shrimp.

I believe the Equilibrium is simply a mineral additive that raises GH (but not KH). Are you routinely adding in Equilibrium once a week without doing a water change or does the once a week dosing come at the same time you're doing a water change? Simply dropping in a tablespoon of the stuff once a week is risky at best. You should be adding X amount based on the current GH level in the tank. Finding a way to raise your KH could also help stabilize your PH.

Oddly enough, some quick research on my part seems to show lots of sources that say the Equilibrium should have 0 effect on ph values. So I'm again leaning towards your KH value being too low. 

In the end, I think the best advice when it comes to this stuff is to never start messing with water chemistry as its too difficult to replicate your results consistently.


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## Fireweed (Oct 11, 2016)

Lots of points here, thanks.

It seems that I'm the only one worried about the acidity. My history with overly acid water, and the instant benefits of bringing it to neutral are clearly something that are difficult for me to overlook. I will see what I need to do with regrads to raising pH without over-dosing the Equilibrium.

Oh and yes, Equilibrium does effect pH. Try this- do a pH test, then add just a tiny bit to the vial and see the change.

Someone mentioned shrimp not breeding as well with c02.... um, as mentioned neither did mine until I was shown to add Equilibrium... they are incredibly reproductive here now.

Yes Equilibrium "restores and maintains mineral balance and GH".

I do waterchanges weekly, I also dose with flourish 1-2 times per week, as well have been using root tabs, twice per year.


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## bsantucci (Sep 30, 2013)

It's not the benefits of bringing your pH to neutral, it's the benefits of adding gh to your already soft water. The shrimp require moderate hardness. Without knowing what kind of shrimp you need at the minimum a gh of 4 for them. 

If you want more difficult plants too you'll need more complete fertilizing. Flourish alone isn't enough and is likely the source of your plant problems. 

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## sharkbunnie (Oct 22, 2015)

I would definitely test the KH of your water and see if that is whats keeping your pH low. I run CO2 in 3 tanks and I have my GH at 7dGH & my KH at 3. All of my tanks pH is 7.4 -7.6 in the morning before CO2 kicks on and when the drop checker is green my pH is 6.4 - 6.6 consistently. I really think this could be the missing link you are looking for. Hope this helps.


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## Fireweed (Oct 11, 2016)

Ok test the KH, thanks, I believe I have a test for that!

Bump:


bsantucci said:


> It's not the benefits of bringing your pH to neutral, it's the benefits of adding gh to your already soft water. The shrimp require moderate hardness. Without knowing what kind of shrimp you need at the minimum a gh of 4 for them.
> 
> If you want more difficult plants too you'll need more complete fertilizing. Flourish alone isn't enough and is likely the source of your plant problems.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



Sorry I must have not been clear about the question, but have had good success with "advanced" plants with my (clearly) backwards ways of doing things, currently with healthy Proserpinaca palustris, Utricularia graminifolia, Hygro 'araguaia' and just dumped most of the Glosso and Alternanthera 'mini', most of which was stunted in my initial over acid tank before finding Equilibrium.


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