# BBA / fuzz - nothing seems to work :(



## Aquarist_Fist (Jul 22, 2008)




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## helgymatt (Dec 7, 2007)

Provide good CO2 and spot treat with excel and leave filters off for 10 min


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## kotoeloncat (Apr 12, 2006)

BBA, quite simply is lack of Co2 or inconsistent Co2 levels its been proven time and time again

Fix that part of the problem then the BBA should not spread. Once it stopped spreading spot treat with Excel.


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## Aquarist_Fist (Jul 22, 2008)

Well, the problem is that my CO2 is already quite far in the yellowish-green. Of course fluctuation would be less with pressurized, but CO2 NEVER goes into the blues. Plus, I have seen DIY systems without algae before. I noticed that the infestations are not evenly distributed over the tank: there are infested leaves and there are pristine areas. Seems like I have some dead zones in my tank.

Could someone comment on my livestock, please? Am I overstocked?


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## tazcrash69 (Sep 27, 2005)

I think It's more the amount of light, coupled with the CO2 distribution.

Also try your drop checker in different locations.


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## kotoeloncat (Apr 12, 2006)

Aquarist_Fist said:


> Well, the problem is that my CO2 is already quite far in the yellowish-green. Of course fluctuation would be less with pressurized, but CO2 NEVER goes into the blues. Plus, I have seen DIY systems without algae before. I noticed that the infestations are not evenly distributed over the tank: there are infested leaves and there are pristine areas. Seems like I have some dead zones in my tank.
> 
> Could someone comment on my livestock, please? Am I overstocked?


dropchecker is not the most accurate measurement. It depends on alot of factors, Co2 distribution, drop checker location, and all that good stuff.

Its a good indicator but not something to follow on completely. Its not a matter of DIY its a matter of distribution and levels.

BBA is caused by lack or fluctuations of Co2 levels

as far as lifestock goes I dont think its too overstocked, as long you have good filtration it should not be a problem


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

15 liter tank? With 56 watts of T5 light? 15 liters is about 4 gallons. I don't know the dimensions of a 15 liter tank, but whatever they are, you really do have a lot of light. Light is what drives algae to grow.


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## Aquarist_Fist (Jul 22, 2008)

15 gallons, L(ong), not liters.  Most tank volumes come in two standard sizes, one is taller (H), one is longer (L).

Thanks for the replies, keep them coming. I'll see what I can do to improve distribution. I can't possibly upgrade my powerhead, but maybe I can redirect the filter outflow so it reaches the tricky corners.


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## brohawk (May 19, 2008)

Yup, definitely tinker w/ your flow direction, and try putting the drop checker in the deadest spot of the tank.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Well, 15 gallons is a lot better than 15 liters But, "Long" tanks are also shallow tanks, so the light intensity at the substrate is considerably higher than with standard shape tanks, for the same lighting system. 56 watts is still a lot of light for that size tank. I think that tank is about 13 inches high? So, with 3 inches of substrate, the water is only 10 inches deep? In my opinion 28 watts of T5 light would be high light intensity for that tank. And, at that wattage you would have far less problems with algae, etc.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

I know its hard to believe but it is your co2. I was in the same boat as you, yellow dropchecker with diy co2 and BBA still was in my tank. Now I have pressurized co2 with the same setup. After I killed it all with spot treatments of Excel it has not grown back.


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## houstonhobby (Dec 12, 2008)

In my tanks BBA occurs in the high flow areas, not the dead zones.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Aquarist_Fist said:


> Well, the problem is that my CO2 is already quite far in the yellowish-green. Of course fluctuation would be less with pressurized, but CO2 NEVER goes into the blues. Plus, I have seen DIY systems without algae before. I noticed that the infestations are not evenly distributed over the tank: there are infested leaves and there are pristine areas. Seems like I have some dead zones in my tank.
> 
> Could someone comment on my livestock, please? Am I overstocked?


CO2, CO2 and CO2.

Drop checkers are hardly an accurate rapid method to test CO2.
Do not place too much faith in them.

Nor your DIY, there are plenty of folks that do well with DIY, then there are plenty that do not, DIY is not nearly as consistent as gas tank.

Even your own experiences detail that observation.:redface:

You also have what is over 4 W/gal on shallow tank for the old rule of thumb using the T5's which are a lot brighter than old school NO FL's.

And dosing is easy to rule out+ you have loads of light.

What's left and the weakest point here?

CO2.

What have folks known for a decade about BBA?

CO2.

You are not going to beat this or get at the root issue without address that.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Aquarist_Fist (Jul 22, 2008)

Okay, I took your guys' advice (thank ya'll!) and changed some things. 

1. I vacuumed and cut all plants back. There was some nasty undergrowth going on which probably created dead zones in which dirt accumulated. 

2. I ditched one of the light strips. Now I have 2x14W T-5 for 8h a day.

3. I started talking to Rex Grigg about a simple pressurized CO2 solution. Money is tight these days because my wife is going to grad school full time. But as soon as I got some cash extra, I'll go for it.

4. I'm cutting back on the ferts, using the following routine: Micro-macro-nil-micro-macro-nil-water change. Half a standard EI dose each. Plus Excel daily.


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## cjp999 (Nov 18, 2008)

Aquarist_Fist said:


> Hi there,
> 
> *Three questions*
> 
> ...


This is such a good question and ones that's always been on my mind. I really which someone would answer it. I don't doubt that "balanced" tanks have fewer algae problems, but I never did get the "out compete" reason that is given. How can plants out compete algae when there is plenty of everything to go around for everyone. It's not like the plants grab all the nutrients, resulting in there being little left for the algae. EI and injected CO2 make sure there are always plenty of nutrients in the water column.

Seems there must be something more going on. Maybe some algae (eg BBA) just don't like high CO2 environments. Maybe some algae (eg GSA) don't like high phosphates. Maybe healthy growing plants produce something that stunts algae. I don't know, but these all seem like more plausable reasons than the "out compete" argument. Does anyone have any references to studies showing that plants out competing algae is the real reason behind less algae in balanced tanks?

Anyway, probably a topic best left for another thread, and I'm not really looking to start a debate here. But if someone has a quick answer I'd love to hear it.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

I am one of those blessed with the ability to grow BBA in virtually any tank in any conditions, so here are some things I am beginning to believe:

CO2 is very important, but once you have so much CO2 that the fish are badly stressed by it, to the point of the older, weaker ones not surviving, and you have high surface water rippling, and good water flow in the tank, if you still can't stop the BBA, that suggests that there are some other factors involved.

I'm finding that anubias and BBA go together like peanut butter and jelly. My anubias grows very well, putting out new leaves regularly, but once those leaves reach full size and stop growing, BBA moves in. I can prune off the infested leaves, but the next generation of leaves soon invite BBA in. So, for tanks with BBA problems, anubias are not advisable.

Marsilea minuta grows similarly to anubias, growing new leaves regularly and rapidly, but once the old leaves reach full size and stop growing, BBA takes them. I have seen this on purchased Marsilea, both from individuals and from LFS, and have noticed it in photos of other tanks. Again, I can prune away the infested leaves, but the BBA just moves on to the next generation of leaves. I'm ready to accept that M. minuta is not good in a BBA prone tank.

One thing these two plants have in common is that they present nice flat surfaces to the light, and the leaves grow quickly to "adult" size, then stop growing at all. Perhaps leaves have to be continually growing to discourage BBA.

I also have some Isoetes Iacustris (quillwort) which grows new leaves vigorously, then slows down for awhile, allowing BBA to attack the leaves (quills). Pruning them off causes another spurt of fast growth of new leaves, but after a month those attract BBA. Again, non-growing leaves attracting BBA.

I have a relatively low light setup - 55 watts of AH Supply light over a 45 gallon tank, and raised 6 inches over the tank. I now have my CO2 entering the tank from under the substrate, flowing up through the plants for what has to be uniform distribution of CO2.

I have a L. repens grove growing in that same tank, just to see how it does. It grows very well, and no BBA.

Somewhere in all of that must be some hints about avoiding BBA - I hope.


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## MemphisBob (May 2, 2007)

What doesn't seem to get properly conveyed enough in these discussions is that algaes, being simple life forms, don't require _all_ of the macro and micronutrients to grow well. If you have a low nutrient (we'll say CO2) there will be an algae (BBA in this example) that grows well on the nutrients that are available. In this case, NPK adequate light and trace all being available.

Steve Hampton's page goes into more detail on which algae likes a particular nutrient deficiency.


Edited to add:
The inconsistant nature of DIY allows slowed growth of BBA on older leaves.


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## lescarpentier (Feb 2, 2008)

Hoppy said:


> I am one of those blessed with the ability to grow BBA in virtually any tank in any conditions, so here are some things I am beginning to believe:
> 
> CO2 is very important, but once you have so much CO2 that the fish are badly stressed by it, to the point of the older, weaker ones not surviving, and you have high surface water rippling, and good water flow in the tank, if you still can't stop the BBA, that suggests that there are some other factors involved.


I guess I'm one of the lucky ones,however with adequate CO2 I think,(at least in my case,)that it all boiled down to circulation.

I had a period of time that the BBA was multiplying faster than the leaves would grow back after pruning off the affected leaves.I was losing the battle.I had tufts of it growing on the glass,plant stems and leaves,and even on the gravel.After going pressurized it went away.

I use a Cal Aqua inline diffuser with a 2235 to power it.The water exits through a spray bar positioned about 3 1/2 inches above the substrate.The CO2 levels are not too high because the fish have never shown discomfort or stress because of it.

Since I went pressurized the only time that BBA reappeared was when I didn't prune for over a month and the tank was choked so bad that there was literally nowhere for the fish to swim and consequently the circulation suffered greatly.I also got green algae on many the leaves,even on the fast growing stem plants.After a massive prune the tank restabilised itself quickly and perfectly.

One may think that my tank would be difficult to keep in balance,and that I am pushing the limits,having 144 watts of T-5 HO over a 44 gallon tank.On the contrary.I really have to neglect this tank badly to have any ill effects.As it is I am not always punctual with my water changes or my EI dosing.I am covinced that it is superior circulation that saves me from grief.

I have read many posts about CO2 stressed fish and continuing algae problems.I am convinced that inadequate circulation is almost always the problem.


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## dewalltheway (Jan 19, 2005)

I had a start of BBA and I am running a pressurized CO2 system that stays constant, dose EI method with 50% water changes weekly and I read somewhere to dose more phosphates so I doubled what I was dosing phosphates at and it is gone. Also, may plants look so much better. Take it as you may.


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