# The crab shack - devils and vampires - updated with pics 1/29/14



## Hobbes1911 (Mar 2, 2009)

So after researching, planning and researching some more, I decided to build a tank for geosesarma crabs. I did not want to simply set up a tank, put some gravel in and have a little water area since I was looking for a long-term build project with a significant dry and wet area. The plan ultimately was to build a vivarium/paludarium (I'm still not sure on the terminology) where I could provide a significant water and land portion as well as have enough upwards room to grow epiphytes that enjoy the high humidity like fern, orchids, mosses, bromeliads, etc.

Many vivaria are designed with a very shallow water level (1-2 inches) and a significant land and vertical area as most of these are for frogs. I definitely took many build ideas from the "frog people" and modified them to fit my design. 

The tank is a 37 gallon (general 20L footprint, but 22" high). There is a 6" deep water feature and the substrate will be something like 4-5" deep above the water. I read the crabs are tunnelers so I want to provide them with enough depth to be able to thoroughly dig their burrows to provide them with semi-natural conditions. The substrate is elevated off the water via an egg-crate false bottom so that it does not stay water-logged. There is a part that will extend into the water and will be able to grow marginal plants (like emersed crypts, thank you Gordon). I'll have a layer of hydroton in the bottom to be able to support springtails, isopods, and other microfauna which will act as janitors and live food. I heard these vivaria tend to form mold (I guess there is an arch-nemesis or each enclosure: aquariums have algae, vivaria have mold, etc.) so I want to have janitors to clean that up.

There is a water fall to return oxygenated water back into the water and to add a little humidity via evaporation. Also, it looks nice . The whole waterfall is driven via a Fluval 405 which is ample filtration and gph. Actually, it is more gph than I need and I might downgrade sometime in the future, but currently it works. I covered the outlets with mesh so the flow will be decreased and to direct the water to run along the background, instead of just falling and splashing everywhere. 

I am planning on keeping the temperature of the tank around 24-26C, so I want to have the water around 26-27 degrees to allow for evaporation. Ultimately, I want to add an inline heater, but currently a submersed heater hidden in some corner will have to do. I am confident that I'll be able to hide it. 

Lighting wise, I decided to go with a 30" HO T5 fixture to be able to grow high-light demanding plants like bromeliads. The light extends pretty well to the bottom, and I think I'll be able to grow low-light plants in the water. 

I'll add a detailed build log in the next posts, since the pictures are currently uploading to photo bucket. Also, I just wanted to note, that now looking back, a ready-made background that you can buy in a store are a lot cheaper than home-made. Only, you can't customize them, and you don't get the satisfaction of building it yourself . 

I would like to thank several people (on TPT or not) who have been great in extending information and helping me plan this:
My lovely fiancee for her help and understanding (especially of the mess), Gordon Richards, Rachel O'Leary, Bill Brissette, Bill (Fishes_in_Philly), rozdaboff, John from NEFG, Matt and Doug on dendroboard. Also, Jaime and *** for encouragement and thoughful comments. I am sorry if I forgot you.


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## Hobbes1911 (Mar 2, 2009)

Alles hat einen Anfang:

***sorry for the bad picture qualities. I'm not a photographer***

First thing I needed to construct was the false bottom. I definitely wanted a larger water area since I do have a strong aquarium background and want to keep some fish in the water (they also provide live food for the crabs if they so choose). 

I designed and build the false bottom with a marginal and dry area in mind. 


I then elevated it off the ground with PVC pipes cut to the desired length as well as "fences" to keep animals out of certain areas.


Next, I wanted to arrange the wood and decide on the final layout. 

The big root on the egg crate most likely won't make it into the final design since it does take up a lot of space.

The design evolved: 


This pic you can see the pvc supports:


to this:


In the end you'll realize I didn't use much of the earlier brain storms.

Next I needed to do the plumbing.
Here is the filter intake (I ended up cutting off the bend since the filter wasn't strong enough to draw in water with all the bends):


I then covered the background in brown silicone (I read GS foam sticks better to silicone) and positioned the outlet for the waterfall:


Next I covered the egg crate and the PVC pipes in weed block to cover them up and to allow for water drainage through the egg crate layer (so apparently weed block is crappy draining material, so I poked larger holes into it):


Next Post: GS foam everywhere


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## Hobbes1911 (Mar 2, 2009)

Und weiter geht's!

To keep the substrate on the egg crate and prevent washing off I sprayed foam all around the edges. One note about GS foam. When people say it gets everywhere they mean EVERYWHERE! I lined the bathroom with painters plastic tarps to make sure I wouldn't mess anything up.
Foam:

Plastic:


The whole background was build using GS foam. I put down several foam layers first and then cut out holes to put in the wood. I found that method safer and it was easier to keep the wood in place during drying than immediately putting the wood in place with the first layer of foam. Sadly, I have no pictures in between the last one and this one:
 All the sticks and ropes are used to keep the wood and bark in place during drying.

Another angle:


The root in the middle is part of the waterfall and will direct the water to where it's supposed to go.

Final layout of all the wood and bark pieces that will be permanent with some of the foam already carved:


Different angle and you can see the waterfall outlets well:


I then did a water test and realized the fluval 405 is way too strong for the waterfall. So I covered the outlets in weed-block (for once it was good that weed-block doesn't drain water well):


And the whole waterfall:


Next up: Toxic smells and dirt


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## Hobbes1911 (Mar 2, 2009)

Dreck ueberall!

So now there's another large jump forward in time since I didn't take any pictures of any in-between steps. I covered the background with two mixes: one of Titebond III (a wood glue) and peat mossand one with silicone and peat moss. The silicone I used around the waterfall and any areas that would be permanently water-logged. The titebond III is used anywhere else. I used the two mixed, because of several reasons:
1. I heard TB III softens up under constant water exposure and I don't want my background to dissolve away.
2. Silicone is permanently water tight and won't get soft.
3. Silicone apparently won't hold the peat moss forever, so I only wanted to use it where it is absolutely necessary
4. I was curious to see which would perform better long-term since I read about both methods, but could not decide which was the better way to go. 

So now the tank looked like this: 

Finally, I just needed to do some tweaking to the background, add a semi submerged area for the crabs to sit on and connect both land masses with a bridge:


And a shot from above:


So that's the current status. I built a stand out of 2x4s (more like 1.5x3.5s but who is measuring) and the tank will go there to dry for a good month before anything else happens. I'll be leaving for Germany soon so even if the tank is ready to go in a week, I won't start it up since I want to be there during the beginning to make sure all is well.


Thank you for looking, and if you have any questions, or comments, I'd be more than happy to answer.


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

This is looking GREAT man!


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## Hobbes1911 (Mar 2, 2009)

Thank you sir. Partially (or mainly) that's the reason I haven't done the fairy shrimp yet  sorry.


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## Warlock (Feb 28, 2012)

Give them place to burrow..


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## aluka (Feb 2, 2013)

Yay! journal! =D

Looking awesome! =D


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## gordonrichards (Jun 20, 2009)

Caves man caves. Get those pvc pipes for them!


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## Hobbes1911 (Mar 2, 2009)

got some 1.5 inch wide pvc pipes. Should they go 4 or 6 inches deep? and I'll just stick them in the substrate right?


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## DrakeScree (Jan 30, 2013)

Did you find sources for the crabs then?


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## invertMASA (Apr 4, 2013)

Wow this is going to end up looking pretty awesome, great work man!


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## ValMM (Feb 22, 2011)

I can't wait to see it finished! It looks good so far.


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## crazydaz (Mar 18, 2007)

WoW!!! EXCELLENT BUILD, man!! Amazing job.....I can hardly wait to see it finished and running. Nice work!


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## Hobbes1911 (Mar 2, 2009)

DrakeScree said:


> Did you find sources for the crabs then?


I did yes. I'll be in Germany soon, but I will get them very soon afterwards .



invertMASA said:


> Wow this is going to end up looking pretty awesome, great work man!


Thank you very much.



ValMM said:


> I can't wait to see it finished! It looks good so far.


Thank you Val  It will be nice. Especially with the combination of epiphytes and terrestrial animals.



crazydaz said:


> WoW!!! EXCELLENT BUILD, man!! Amazing job.....I can hardly wait to see it finished and running. Nice work!


Thank you sir.


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## dtejeda.arias (Mar 5, 2013)

You made a journal! !!! It looks MAGNIFICENT. Very well designed and all around great


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## Hobbes1911 (Mar 2, 2009)

dtejeda.arias said:


> You made a journal! !!! It looks MAGNIFICENT. Very well designed and all around great


Thanks Danny


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## MSG (Jul 16, 2012)

*Very nice.....*










Nice detailed thread, I'm sure it will help anyone else in the future who's considering these little shelled critters.

Everything looks phenomenal! I've always wondered what it took to make a "realistic" 3D type background in a tank. 

Amazing to see how many little steps in addition to the planning/design are involved to even get slightly close to this. Hope the cork wood where the water is going to be stays in place. Those things are very light. 

Look forward to seeing the completed setup once you add the plants & get the waterfall fully operational. 

The crabs sneaking out for lunch/dinner will be a extra bonus. 


Try to make a video when you get finally introduce the crabs to their new home. 


Are you planning to do a "dry start" to give the plants a chance to grow out a bit? 


I hope you were able to renovate & add a few more caves like Gordon suggested.


**In case anyone else doesn't know.......
GS foam = GREAT STUFF™ brand foam manufactured by the DOW Chemical Company available at most hardware stores.


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## Hobbes1911 (Mar 2, 2009)

MSG said:


> Nice detailed thread, I'm sure it will help anyone else in the future who's considering these little shelled critters.
> 
> Everything looks phenomenal! I've always wondered what it took to make a "realistic" 3D type background in a tank.
> 
> ...


Thank you MSG. I will be adding the PVC pipes once I have the substrate in. I figured I'll just push the pvc into the substrate at varying angles and see which ones the crabs take. I was also thinking a coco hut or two like for darts if they actually want a cave/hut. 

I'll try to weigh down the cork bark once I fill it. I was thinking of tying a rock to the bottom of each ramp. The ledge itself is wedged into the background pretty tightly so I don't think it will move. I'll have to see what happens.

As far as starting the whole thing, I wanted to wait until I'm back, just to make sure everything will run smoothly.

BTW I love the crab


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## Hobbes1911 (Mar 2, 2009)

Bepflanzungsideen

I figured I'd just update a bit. There is no development in the build, but I thought maybe there are some orchid people on here that can evaluate my proposed fauna. I am planning to go for mainly orchids in the intermediate - warm temperature tolerance range. 

I specifically like bulbophyllums, pleurothallis, lepanthes, masdevallia and haraella. 

I'll just include a couple of pictures from around the web of some of the orchids I am looking to get. These are not final, nor all inclusive. I am planning to aesthetically cram as many orchids as I can. If anyone has any ideas or knows specifically that some of the orchids I am looking for won't work, let me know. Again, the pictures are not mine!

Aerangis luteo alba var. rhodosticta:


Madevallia haerradurae


Dryadella zebrina


Schoenorchis fragrans


Pleurothallis tribuloides


Pleurothallis resupinata


Masdevallia brachyura


Encyclia polybulbon


Dendrobium carronii


Ascocentrum pumilum


Barbosella handroi


Lepanthes calodictyon (this one is a huge maybe since it is supposed to be incredibly fragile and tends to not do well in vivaria; but my is it beautiful)


Bulbophyllum catelunatum


Haraella retrocalla


Jewel orchid: Macodes petola


Dendrobium lamayaiae


Bulbophyllum vinculibulbum


All of these are just ideas for leaf shape, color, and inflorescence. However, they are all similar as they are vivarium suited (more or less) and can take the warmer temperatures that I will be having. Again, these are not my pictures.


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## catfishbi (Jun 10, 2008)

wow great builder, nice skill


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## h4n (Jan 4, 2006)

Pretty cool man!


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## rozdaboff (Nov 27, 2006)

Great work so far! The crabs really lend themselves to vivaria designed in a similar way for dendrobatids (dart frogs) so that is a great place for info.

As for the orchids - what kind of lid is going to be on the tank? The amount of humidity and air flow will really dictate what will work and what won't. I definitely haven't tried all of the ones on your list, but I have tried a couple, and I know of others that have tried some related species with good luck.

There are a lot of very knowledgeable people on Dendroboard in regards to orchids and vivaria. I had the best luck with orchids once moving to something with lower humidity and more air movement - which is just fine for the crabs - but harder for some of the frogs.

Of the orchids you posted, my experience has been the following:

Madevallia haerradurae - I lost this one. I could never find the appropriate amount of moisture that the roots wanted. It was either to dry or too wet. 

Pleurothallis tribuloides - I am still working to make this one happy. It is chugging along, but I haven't gotten it to flower yet. I recently moved it to a place in the tank to allow its roots to dry out more and a little further away from the light, and it is doing OK. We will see. 

Lepanthes calodictyon - I have not tried any Lepanthes yet, as I was under the impression that they really need a night time temp drop to be happy. If you are on Facebook - check out Planted Glass Boxes. He does a lot with terrarium orchids - and in particular has a lot of experience with Lepanthes.

Haraella retrocalla - I haven't tried this one either, but I seem to remember that a lot of people used to have good success with Haraella odorata in vivs.

Macodes petola - Wonderful little orchid. In my hands it was one of the more demanding jewel orchids. But it should do well in the right place in the tank - this one will want more humidity - so keep it lower. Black Jungle is a good source for Jewel orchids.

Others you didn't list but I have had success with:

Pleurothallis allenii - really cool purple flowers, slender leaves
Pleurothallis grobyi - neat miniature
Pleurothallis microphylla - tiny leaves, great grower
Pleurothallis determannii - very neat shingling pleurothallid - hard to find for sale it seems
Platystele vellota - really cool clusters of tiny flowers
Pleurothallis niveoglobula - constant flowerer, small white ball shaped flowers
Stelis morganii - nice vining-type orchid - prolific flowerer
Zootrophion hirtzii and serpentinum - again, vining type-growth 
Trichosalpinx chamleolepanthes "pendant" - small, vining type orchid with veined leaves. Really neat growth pattern.
Restrepia spp. - almost all of them will do well. Brachypus, antenniferum - I had good luck with these even in humid frog tanks.
Sophronitis cernua - This orchid looks stunning when it flowers in a viv - one of my favorites


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## Hobbes1911 (Mar 2, 2009)

rozdaboff said:


> Great work so far! The crabs really lend themselves to vivaria designed in a similar way for dendrobatids (dart frogs) so that is a great place for info.
> 
> As for the orchids - what kind of lid is going to be on the tank? The amount of humidity and air flow will really dictate what will work and what won't. I definitely haven't tried all of the ones on your list, but I have tried a couple, and I know of others that have tried some related species with good luck.
> 
> ...



I was planning to have a vent that goes the entire length of the lid. I will construct it out of no-see-um screen and the regular "home-made" screen frames you can get at home depot. I then wanted to use a glass lid with a hole in one side in the front, either left or right (I have no idea which would be better) and attach a 12V computer fan to it that will turn on during the day randomly to aid in air exchange. I was hoping that that would work. 

I am not yet clear on the exact dimensions, and I have to find a place in Boston that can custom make the glass and especially be able to drill it. 

I was thinking of constructing the top like this (crappy paint version):


Will this work? Will this be too much or too little ventilation? Also, should I have one plate or two plates of glass for the top (length is 30", width would be 9")? Any ideas are welcome.


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## Clemsons2k (May 31, 2009)

This is very neat, subbed!


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## rozdaboff (Nov 27, 2006)

I think it will work - but you are just going to have to keep a close eye on all of the orchids and adjust their position in the tank as needed. You will probably lose some - but that is the challenge with growing orchids in tanks.

I think a single pane 5/16 or 1/4 should be fine; I wouldn't go 1/8" if you are going to put the light on it.

Is there a reason you are going to use No-See Um mesh and not something with bigger holes? Is it just because you plan on feeding a lot of FFs? The small holes will limit airflow more.


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## Hobbes1911 (Mar 2, 2009)

rozdaboff said:


> I think it will work - but you are just going to have to keep a close eye on all of the orchids and adjust their position in the tank as needed. You will probably lose some - but that is the challenge with growing orchids in tanks.
> 
> I think a single pane 5/16 or 1/4 should be fine; I wouldn't go 1/8" if you are going to put the light on it.
> 
> Is there a reason you are going to use No-See Um mesh and not something with bigger holes? Is it just because you plan on feeding a lot of FFs? The small holes will limit airflow more.


I heard that FFs do present a good source of nutrition and that the crabs enjoy catching them. I am not at all attached to the possibility of having to culture FFs, but that was the reason for the no see um. If I don't need FFs and crickets, springtails, isopods, worms, and dry food work then I don't see a reason why I couldn't go with larger mesh and allow for more airflow.

Will it matter which side I put the fan? Also, how often should I turn it on and off?


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## Open_Cages (Jan 26, 2013)

What did you use to cover up the egg crates? Is that all great stuff?

Also, I suggest some mosss for the caves. Java would look good both in and out of the water, so long as it is wet. Also, are you going to stock it with anything besides the crabs?

It looks great! I'll definately keep watching this.


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## Hobbes1911 (Mar 2, 2009)

Open_Cages said:


> What did you use to cover up the egg crates? Is that all great stuff?
> 
> Also, I suggest some mosss for the caves. Java would look good both in and out of the water, so long as it is wet. Also, are you going to stock it with anything besides the crabs?
> 
> It looks great! I'll definately keep watching this.


Thank you!

All of the starter plants have been, or will be shipped within the next week or so. I am very much looking forward to getting this project moving, since it's been a while. The good thing about letting it sit so long is that any hint of a glue smell is gone (for now at least). Hopefully I'll be able to plant (and seed) this weekend.

The orchids won't ship out until next week though. That part I am very much looking forward to. Hopefully, I won't immediately kill them since I have very little orchid experience. 

The egg crate is covered in weed block mesh/fabric stuff. Looking back though, I'd suggest screen rather than weed block since screen drains better.

There will be moss along the background (I have tropical moss already ordered and it should arrive soon). I will furthermore plant java moss and HC and H. sibthorpioides along the waters edge along with crypts in the marginal zone. I'll just see what happens. 

I am planning to put some guppies into the water feature. Initially, I wanted to stock it with some wild bettas, but I heard that the crabs enjoy catching fish, and that wouldn't be very desirable with bettas. Eventually I'll also stock some RCS. At least that's the plan for now. Who knows how it'll change. Potentially, I was also thinking a small school of habrosus but that's definitely not the immediate goal nor plan.


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## Hobbes1911 (Mar 2, 2009)

The first shipment of plants arrived. Finally, after a long wait, I will be able to continue this project. I will be planting today. Next week, the orchids should arrive. 

Regardless, here are some of the plants I have so far:

Korean Rock Fern


Bromeliad Wee willy


Bromeliad Chiquita Linda plus pup 


Button Fern


Assorted Tillandsias


Dischidia ruscifolia


Peperomia Noid


Peperomia mini melon


I also have some selaginella, HC and some marginals waiting to be planted. For the background, I got some tropical moss mix that can be "painted" on by adding some water.


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## Hobbes1911 (Mar 2, 2009)

Plants are finally in, the waterfall is running and the substrate is seeded with springtails. I have an orchid order pending, that should arrive Friday and then eventually, I'll add some emersed bucephalandras along the waterfall and let them spread on their own. The moss mix for the background is currently brown and dead/dormant. Eventually, all the background should be covered in moss. As time goes by, apart from adding the residents, I'll add some more epiphytes. Hopefully, I can get some nice lemmaphyllum ferns or some microgramma, but all of those plans are dependent on the orchids, and how well those grow in. 

I haven't quite decided what critters I should keep in the water. Since the crabs apparently eat fish, I think guppies should be safe. I was also thinking about cory habrosus or other small bottom dwellers. Who knows. 

For now enough rambling. Here are some shots:





Brom wee willy


I'll update more later this week when the orchids are here. Enjoy, and as always, any comments or questions are more than welcome.


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## Clemsons2k (May 31, 2009)

Looks amazing!


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## aluka (Feb 2, 2013)

I can only say wow !!

Btw that korean rock fern is soo awesome!!


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## Hobbes1911 (Mar 2, 2009)

Orchid update

The orchids arrived today. I have to plant them, but here are some pictures

Pleurothallis grobyi


close-up



Haraella odorata



Barbosella handroi


close-up



Pleurothallis minutalis


flower of P. minutalis (crummy photo - sorry, I'm still learning)



Masdevallia brachyura


close-up



Pleurothallis resupinata


close-up



I'll see how I'll do with these plants. Once I figured out how to keep them happy more orchids will join them. Now just to plant them in the right spots.


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## panchovilla1133 (May 23, 2012)

Great looking tank. I have always wanted crab tank and this makes me want one more


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## ValMM (Feb 22, 2011)

Beautiful little jungle. The crabs will love it!


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## EngineChauffer (Apr 3, 2013)

So very gorgeous. Diggin the waterfall and....everything. Great job!


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## Hobbes1911 (Mar 2, 2009)

Thank you all for the kind words . All the orchids are planted. I'll update tonight with a couple of FTS. This week the crabs should arrive so I am very excited.


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## aluka (Feb 2, 2013)

*Build Journal - Geosesarma crabs (Vampire and red devil) updated with fts*

So I need a few strong men to help me steal his tank while he's at work!

Lol j/k, great job! It's so wonderful to see you do this step by step! Now you should go plan a pico version of this for me , please? Lmao  I want one too!


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## h4n (Jan 4, 2006)

wow very nice man!


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## Hobbes1911 (Mar 2, 2009)

As promised, albeit rather late, here are some updated shots. I still need to figure out a good way to clean the front glass since the water fall splashes a lot. Also, it's very overexposed since I took the pictures hastily. I'll update with better ones probably tonight or tomorrow when the crabs arrive.

FTS:






orchids:




Dischidia is showing new growth  :


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## gordonrichards (Jun 20, 2009)

Looking good! Hope you enjoy the crabs!
-Gordon


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## Hippocampus (Dec 27, 2012)

*subscribed*


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## Hobbes1911 (Mar 2, 2009)

Thank you everyone for the kind words. The crabs have arrived and are currently hanging out in the holding tank. I'll take lots of pictures tonight.


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## Hobbes1911 (Mar 2, 2009)

And they are here!

Cup of red devils:


Cups of vampires:


The vampires straight up went into hiding. The Red devils are definitely more active and are out and about so they were much easier to photograph. 



Red devil munching on a wax worm






And a vampire checking me out. S/he seems rather sceptical


And enjoying a cricket


Two devils one with a worm, the other with a cricket


I am so excited to finally have these guys in after all this wait. Now to make sure that shipping went alright and then one of the species will be ready to move into the big tank once it's established. I am not sure yet which species I'll put in there, but if the vampires keep hiding like that, then I think I'll put the devils in the big tank since it'll be easier to keep track of hiding crabs in a smaller enclosure.


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## shawnleon (Dec 10, 2012)

*Build Journal - Geosesarma crabs (Vampire and red devil) updated with fts*

Congrats, they look awesome! Never considered keeping crabs so I'll have to do some research to learn more about what you're in for.


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## dtejeda.arias (Mar 5, 2013)

Amazing man! Congrats on all your hard work! Everything looks magnificent.


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## lamiskool (Jul 1, 2011)

wow this is amazing!


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## aluka (Feb 2, 2013)

they are soooo cute!!!!! lol Gratz on them!!!!!! =) ENJOY THEM!!!


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## sumer (Feb 6, 2010)

Awesome journal. Those crabs are just amazing 
Wonderful work.


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## Hippocampus (Dec 27, 2012)

They are--dare I say--CUTE!


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## aquarium hippy (Feb 7, 2013)

THis is a truely inspiring build I think I may try somthing similar with my boys in a couple years.


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## Rilly10 (Apr 5, 2013)

Awesome job!!! Too cool!


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Please post about ten thousand more photos ASAP.

This is amazing.


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## Kitsune_Gem (Apr 10, 2012)

somewhatshocked said:


> Please post about ten thousand more photos ASAP.
> 
> This is amazing.


1+ roud:


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## clunkified (Sep 10, 2011)

Killer!


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## panchovilla1133 (May 23, 2012)

Post a video of the crabs catching crickets


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## Hobbes1911 (Mar 2, 2009)

panchovilla1133 said:


> Post a video of the crabs catching crickets



I'll try. Currently, I'm fighting with temperatures around mid 80s in my room (aircon just went it) so all the crabs are just sitting there and hanging out. I'm planning on setting up another tank this weekend to separate the species. I'll try to post a video then.


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## Hobbes1911 (Mar 2, 2009)

So apparently I'm doing something wrong. I'm not sure if the tank is too wet, or too dry, but several plants are showing signs of being unhappy. The rock fern is all but withering away and the dischidia is showing yellow leaves. I am not sure if those are signs of just settling in like for example crypt melt, or if it means those plants are dying off. I decided to try more watering and I'll see what the response will be.

Rock fern being truly unhappy


dischidia with yellow leaves


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## ValMM (Feb 22, 2011)

Aww, that's always disheartening. I'm sure you'll figure it out.


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## lamiskool (Jul 1, 2011)

man wish I could help, this setup and the crabs look amazing. I hope you figure this out


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## Hobbes1911 (Mar 2, 2009)

Update time. I added anubias on the water's edge and under the waterfall. I also added a bucephalandra onto the backwall. I also found small springtails, meaning there is a small population growing .


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## aluka (Feb 2, 2013)

looking good! You should get some brown or reddish leaf plants for some color! everything is so greeeeen!


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## Hobbes1911 (Mar 2, 2009)

aluka said:


> looking good! You should get some brown or reddish leaf plants for some color! everything is so greeeeen!


What would you suggest?


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## aluka (Feb 2, 2013)

Cryptanthus Pink Starlight?

lol i can't think of any i think some bromelads are reddish brown, lol


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## tizzite (Mar 28, 2010)

I'm always amazed when I see these builds- how a bunch of pvc and foam can be transformed into something that looks like nature. The crabs are really cute, and I bet they're fun to watch. Have you seen them go underwater?


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## Hobbes1911 (Mar 2, 2009)

A nice brightly colored, albeit shy, devil male.


Still trying to hide


Gotcha!


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## Basil (Jul 11, 2011)

This is EXACTLY the thread I've been searching for. I would love to set up a tank for some Vampire Crabs. Those Devil ones also look wicked. I will be PM'ing you some questions about setting a crab habitat. I hope you don't mind too much! Great set up and I love the Orchids. I've got several Phalaenopsis growing in my office.


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## ValMM (Feb 22, 2011)

Are the residents getting along?


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## Hobbes1911 (Mar 2, 2009)

Small update (I will show pictures later today or tomorrow).

I hung the light above the tank now to allow the top to close tightly. I'll be introducing the crabs soon, so I want to make sure there are zero escape possibilities, since I've noticed that they are quite the skilled climbers. The red devils are thriving, the vampires aren't doing so well. I've lost three so far. I cannot figure out why. I do not observe anymore aggression between the species so I doubt that that's it. I did read that they don't ship well, and that the full "trauma" from shipping can take weeks to either overcome, or not.

The plants are doing so so. All the orchids seem to be thriving. The P. grobyi and P. resupinata are throwing out spikes, all the other ones are producing new leaves. So I think I'm doing alright on that. Does anyone know an animal-friendly foliar fertilizer that I could use for the orchids?
The ferns are also recovering. They have stopped losing leaves, and are producing new shoots so that should eventually work out.
The anubias and marginals are not doing so well. The anubias afzelli in the waterfall have all pretty much died out, and the larger coffefolia along the water's edge in the front are doing so so. It might not be humid enough for them. Also, the moss mix has yet to show any growth anywhere. I think some areas are too dry, but there is no growth anywhere even in the wet, or semi-wet areas. I might have to rethink that mix. Maybe I'm doing something wrong.

I'll show pictures tonight.


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## Hobbes1911 (Mar 2, 2009)

So I finally finished the lid. It's alright, still needs some tweaking, but overall I'm pleased. There is a 3" x 24" screen opening and the rest is covered in glass. The fan is still there for circulation. At some point I'll try to cut a hole into the glass so that I can have better circulation, but for now it'll do. 

I moved 4 of the 6 devils into the tank. I couldn't find two of them, and I didn't want to majorly rummage around the tank. When I see them in the next couple of days, I'll move them then. Obviously, the devils went right for the bushes, and I could only spot one more, hanging under the false bottom. I hope that they'll get more familiar and comfortable with the tank so that they come out more. Regardless, here are some pictures:

Vampire - finally a nice shot of the two colors


P. grobyi spike


D. ruscifolia new growth


The suffering anubias - bad picture due to fogging up of the front glass


P. resupinata with new growth and spikes (I counted three of them, the ones seen here are old ones) I'll try to get a better shot of the current spikes, but they are hidden well under the leaves


Here is a spike. In the back and out of focus


Another angle. I really like this little orchid. I find everything about it fits, the harmonious spots with the darker green leaf color, the leaf shape and the willingness to grow


I'll post a full tank shot soon.


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## lamiskool (Jul 1, 2011)

cant wait to see that FTS!!!! sad to hear about the vampires


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## ValMM (Feb 22, 2011)

It may not be a perfect start, but I think you're doing well. Good job!


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## I<3<*))))>< (Jun 10, 2013)

Amazing set up!!! I absolutely LOVE all the orchids inside as well. Can't wait for them to bloom! Any idea how long that will take? i'm unfamilair with the species planted.

I hope you don't loose anymore of the Vampires, theyre way to cute! Loving the Devils as well, very nice coloration on them!

How long till you add some fish? Still leaning towards guppies?


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## aluka (Feb 2, 2013)

I'm glad your orchids are doing well. 


One of my orchid is sad right now, because I was watering it and i got distracted by my shrimps and left it in water for an hour =<


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## Hobbes1911 (Mar 2, 2009)

Ok finally with the picture update. I got some java fern on Monday that I added. The masdevallia is not doing so well, it dropped all but four leaves, so I moved it around to see if there isn't a better spot for it. It is sending out two new leaves, so I'm not sure if it's just dropping the old growth, or if it's dying. My wee willy flowered, so hopefully I'll get some pups. The chiquita linda has one larger pup out, that I will be cutting off soon, and is sending another one up the background behind it. The crabs are still very shy, but they are molting, so I am excited that they are at least not dying. 

Anyways, here are some pictures for your viewing pleasure. I am still experimenting with the camera settings. I guess these pictures are a bit over exposed.


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## VJM (Feb 9, 2013)

It's absolutely gorgeous. I know you are dealing with a lot of complexity in this tank, but it looks fantastic. 

Amazing DIY and great vision. Can't wait to see how it fills out!


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## Hobbes1911 (Mar 2, 2009)

Update time. I haven't figured out how to deal with all the humidity. It severely screws with the pictures. I might take some more tonight and see if I can't play with it. 

Full tank shot:


Showing all the wiring around the tank with the filter and thermometer/humidity probe on the side.


Red devil femaile


Same female on her way to the hiding spot in the right back of the tank


I tried from above ... not so successful


This is the terrarium for the vampires. Ever since I densely planted it, they are constantly out and about.


I will try for better pictures. If anyone has an idea how to get around the humidity and foggy glass, I'd be happy to know.


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## aluka (Feb 2, 2013)

Would you be able to direct the air flow at the glass? Or add a fan blowing on the glass from the inside?


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## muffin (Aug 23, 2013)

Awsome log m8, have you had any luck to breed them yet? and can you get some more images of the VC rigg. that did not look bad at all, and i have all the stuff to pull that one of over here. 

but i still want to make something that you have done there whit levels, gives it a better feeling i think.


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## spyke (Oct 14, 2010)

You can also leave your top cracked right at the front and that will make the glass not fog up. You will loose a little humidity, but if you mist twice a day and or have a fogger, you should be fine.


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## ValMM (Feb 22, 2011)

Is everything balancing out with the ailing plants?


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## Trail_Mix (May 17, 2011)

Update? Do the crabs eat or bother any of your plants to your knowledge? I guess probably not noticeably if at all. Great looking tank by the way, very jealous!


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## newbieplanter (Jan 13, 2013)

That is a sick tank, lovin that jewel orchid and the other one that looks like a pink star. What was the price paid and is there a way to sell some, clippings an things like that?


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## Cokers (Aug 15, 2011)

Oh wow, this is amazing!


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## gnod (Mar 24, 2011)

ime, having vampire and devils together in the same tank isn't a good idea.. they're actually rather aggressive with the other kind and even among the same devils, the males tend to fight for females (if you have any).

also, are you using any calcium supplements? i would recommend getting some calcium powder to coat whatever you're feeding them. they molt and are very vulnerable for about a week when they do. 

otherwise, i think the heavily planted tank and set up is nicely done!


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## kwheeler91 (May 26, 2009)

Those are two different tanks.


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## tattooedfool83 (Mar 15, 2013)

Update time!


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## CheyLillymama22 (Jun 9, 2013)

tattooedfool83 said:


> Update time!


yep!


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## lamiskool (Jul 1, 2011)

Darn saw a new post and thought it was a update lol


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## Wolf19 (Jan 24, 2013)

lamiskool said:


> Darn saw a new post and thought it was a update lol


This


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## Hobbes1911 (Mar 2, 2009)

Wolf19 said:


> This


I do apologize for my long absence. With christmas, etc. everything has been a little crazy. Also, I will have to do a bit of maintenance on the tank that I am currently a little too chicken to do, because I found young crablets!! :angel::biggrin: So excited. I found three so far (at once - so I know there are at least three) but I have found several before so there might be quite a lot in there. The springtail/fly/other microfauna is doing fabulously so the young have already grown to .5-.8cm size. The endlers in the water are also doing well, and I have observed one of the large males actively hunt and catch an endler fry. Apart from that, I lost one of the orchids but the other ones are doing really well. I will try to get nice update shots this weekend and post many more pictures. I did manage to capture one of the crablets on the back wall and so I will post that picture tonight.


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## Hobbes1911 (Mar 2, 2009)

gnod said:


> ime, having vampire and devils together in the same tank isn't a good idea.. they're actually rather aggressive with the other kind and even among the same devils, the males tend to fight for females (if you have any).
> 
> also, are you using any calcium supplements? i would recommend getting some calcium powder to coat whatever you're feeding them. they molt and are very vulnerable for about a week when they do.
> 
> otherwise, i think the heavily planted tank and set up is nicely done!


The vamps are in their own little tank. There is calcium supplement in terms of cuttle fish bone in the tank. I also gutload the crickets with a cricket feed calcium rich supplement, so they should all be alright.


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## Hobbes1911 (Mar 2, 2009)

Trail_Mix said:


> Update? Do the crabs eat or bother any of your plants to your knowledge? I guess probably not noticeably if at all. Great looking tank by the way, very jealous!


Thank you! No the crabs will only pick at most of the plants. I have seen them eat the moss, but that's alright.


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## Hobbes1911 (Mar 2, 2009)

newbieplanter said:


> That is a sick tank, lovin that jewel orchid and the other one that looks like a pink star. What was the price paid and is there a way to sell some, clippings an things like that?


Clippings of what? And I don't have a jewel orchid in the tank. There are several epiphytic orchids and bromeliads, but no jewel orchids. Thank you for the kind words.


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## Hobbes1911 (Mar 2, 2009)

Ok update time. Here are some pics from the tank. I don't have a recent tank shot since I got home too late, but here are the crablet pics I have. They are really tiny and well camouflaged. 



and a bit more zoomed in, but it got dark since it was a really awkward shooting angle:


Here is the other tank. This one is for G. bicolor 'vampire'

no flash


with flash


I will take nicer pics over the weekend and try to get more of the crablets onto film. 

Thank you everyone for their kind words!


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## Menace (Jan 15, 2014)

This is not what I was expecting when I clicked on this Journal. The best looking tank I've seen to date. Really nice job Hobbes.


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## ValMM (Feb 22, 2011)

They're so little! Tiny things are so cute. Way to go Hobbes!


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## Hobbes1911 (Mar 2, 2009)

This guy felt photogenic today so I managed to snap some decent shots. 

At first timid:


But he allowed me to move the leaf:


And a bit more lighting:


And a random anubias:


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## newbieplanter (Jan 13, 2013)

Hobbes1911 said:


> Clippings of what? And I don't have a jewel orchid in the tank. There are several epiphytic orchids and bromeliads, but no jewel orchids. Thank you for the kind words.


Yea they were pics that were posted here but now I don't see me besides the one where your holding the JO.


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## Kelbrina (Feb 27, 2011)

Love love love this! Setting up something for some vampire crabs is on my tank to-do list for the near future!


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## skoram (Aug 9, 2012)

The title of this thread really piqued my interest. I was wondering what devils and vampires had to do with planted tanks. The answer was more than satisfying


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## Hobbes1911 (Mar 2, 2009)

Update time: I managed a lot more pictures this time. The babies are growing quickly (for crabs anyways). The crabs are also a lot more out nowadays, and don't run away anymore if I move past the tank. It's really awesome. The only thing I still need to get right is the humidity level (only 70% and variable in the tank) and the light levels. I would like to have a nice moss wall on the back, but the moss is always drying out, so I'll need to rethink my set up. 

Anyways, here are the promised pictures:

Nice red male on an anubias, enjoying the flake food:



Close up:




Babies 

Here is a picture from a few months ago:


And this is what they look like today. Even though there is zoom, they have grown quite a lot:








Overall, the tank is a bit brown and not a nice lush green as I had initially hoped and planned. This will be the summer project, although, since the main idea was to keep crabs and have them reproduce, I am reluctant to change anything. I guess time will tell.

Thank you everyone for your continued interest!


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## aluka (Feb 2, 2013)

Aww look at those cute little buggers!


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## lamiskool (Jul 1, 2011)

Babies! Congratz


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