# 10 gallon at the office... everything new



## Flandry (Oct 21, 2003)

Hi. I'm looking for advice because the tank i'm about to set up will be unique from all the others, for several reasons:

1- It will be in a workplace (needs to look 'presentable')
2- I will have access to distilled water for water changes
3- It will be only 10 gallons
4- It will sit in a window that gets some sunlight in the summer
5- There can't be a filter

I've never had to deal with these factors before, so please help me out. I'd like to find a nice paradigm for such a small tank that will be accepted by the others i share the office with. Perhaps something that will raise young? Dwarf cichlids?

I have two other planted tanks, and before that kept two fish only tanks. This will be the first tank that will be designed from the start to be planted, and for which i can spend a bit of cash up front. The possibility of a tank with low GH and KH is a novelty, as well, since the tap water at home is almost brackish (yuck).

I was thinking along the lines of black sand substrate, plants (suggestions?), some tetras, and some otos. But as i mentioned, it would be cool to keep something that will exhibit a bit more personality, and perhaps breed.

Thanks in advance for your help...


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## SoCalSunset (Jun 26, 2004)

I'm sorry to break it to you, but it doesn't sound like that ship will ever sail........... :icon_frow .

Here's a couple reasons why:
1)One of the biggest rules of thumb for tanks is that you keep them out of direct sunlight. Tanks that get direct sunlight are bound to get infested with algae and you'll end up with "pea soup".

2)No filter? Tetras need clean water, and although plants do help keep an aquarium clean, they can't do it alone, especially if you go with dwarf cichlids (why no filter BTW?.

3)I'm not 100% on this one, but I've heard that distilled water is no good for fish tanks. Hopefully someone else will voice their opinion.


Serg


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## Jared (Jul 2, 2004)

Using distilled or R/o water for aquariums can be harmful. This is because there are no dissolved minerals in the water to buffer it against ph crashes. Many of the ferts used on planted tanks can lower ph. If the water is not buffered at all, as is the cas for distilled water, then crashed are a concern. R/O is often used for soft water tropicals like discus especially when breeding. But in the case of a planted tank, it should be reconstituted with tap water or RO Right.JMO
Jared


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## Flandry (Oct 21, 2003)

Well, that's not very encouraging.  Let's see...

It's easy to 'dilute' distilled water. It's much harder to go the other direction. I had heard that discus like very low salinity, and i figured there were other fish (smaller) that had similar tastes, and was excited about having a chance to provide those conditions. The kH of the tap water here is 2 (gh is ~9, though), so i used to add a little bit of baking soda to raise it to 3-4, but i haven't done that in a long time now, and it doesn't seem to matter so much. Anyway, i do understand aquarium chemistry well. I just don't have a lot of knowledge about species (both flora and fauna) that like certain conditions.

Filtering... well, i guess i'm open to suggestions. There's no easy way an exterior (canister) filter can be used, due to the location of the tank. Something like a duetto takes up a lot of space in a 10gal, seems to me. In any case, any potential filter must be quiet and inconspicuous. I have a 10 gallon tank at home with no filter. Just lots of plants and a few fish.

The sun could mostly be blocked by a backdrop and hood, if it's not a good thing to have for the plants. It's from around 5:00PM on, so not as bad as it could be.

Hopefully that clarifies things. Any other thoughts?


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## clay (Nov 28, 2003)

i had a 6g nano before i gave it to a friend before a move, and i did not have a filter, and kept shrimp and ember tetras. i did, however, have an airstone for circulation and did a water change about every other day. plants looked great but there was some work. but it also did not get direct sun. 

good luck on this one! what kind of plants were you wanting to put in it?


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

Do you 'Have to' use the distilled water? The simplest thing to do with distilled water is mix it 50:50 with tap water to ensure that your plants get the basic minerals they need. The late afternoon sun shouldn't be a problem in the winter, in the summer it can overheat the aquarium, you might want to shade the tank in the summer. I have the little duetto filter in a ten and it is great for keeping the water moving, I put it on one of the sides of the tank rather then the back.

I'm assuming you won't be adding CO2 to the tank, how much light were you going to put on the tank? You should be setting up a mid to low light tank with out the CO2 so that you don't get an algae mess, This also means using plants that tolerate those lower light conditions, anubius, crypts, java ferns, mosses, etc. Don't be expecting to grow most stem plants.


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## scalare altum (Apr 5, 2004)

It might not work out becasue of the distilled water. Although you can buy chemicals built for african cichilds, and pH stabalizer that will help. I would rather use tap water and a dechlorinator at your office. Use a HOB filter, I would suggest aqua clear mini. It isn't that large, and hangs right on back. Do you have a place for a flourescent tube, or do you have screw in sockets? If you have it heavily planted you will have a nice setup for a pair of rams or apisots, with a few tetras and otos. Remeber all these fish like acidic conditions.

Good luck. Believe me you will do great! 

-Joel


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## scalare altum (Apr 5, 2004)

Oops I didn't see that you said you can't have an exterior filter, but you also said canister, so I am a bit confused. If you want something inside the tank you can get a clear free pen plazz filter which isn't bad. You need an air pump and an air stone for that.


-Joel


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## GDominy (Jul 30, 2002)

Ok.. This is very doable.. but you will have to choose a few things carefully.

1.) Black out the back of the tank so no direct sunlight gets in
2.) Use 50/50 tapwater and Distilled, or 100% tapwater with dechlor.
3.) Use low light plants and lighting for simplicity sake (Java Fersn and crypts are ideal)
4.) With no filter choose hardly fish, preferably Labrynth fish (Gourami's, Betta's, etc)
5.) Keep your bioload as low as possible; 1-2 fish, shrimp and some snails
6.) Change water frequently.

I have a 7.5 gallon, unfiltered tank on my desk right here at work with me. I have 2, 14 watt Panasonic Screw in Compact Flourescent bulbs, 2 inches of river sand with some pebbles for substrate, and I"m growing Java Fern, Crypts, Dwarf Sag. This tank just has some baby Kribs in it, but its thriving..


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## scalare altum (Apr 5, 2004)

Yeah that could work. However, if he is looking for dwarf cichlids filtration is a must. So he is going to have to sacrafice things he wants for things he doesn't want to get.

I am sure you will make that right decision 

-Joel


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## GDominy (Jul 30, 2002)

Yeah.. I missed the part about Cichlids.... That would be terribly difficult to do unless water is changed every day


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## Flandry (Oct 21, 2003)

*Interesting*

I had arrived at the thought of Rams independently (with a couple dither Tetras), because i've never kept them before, so it's interesting you mention that. I think some dwarf gouramis would be nice, too, but don't know where to get a breeding pair. Do gouramis and plants go together?

Thanks for the input. The tank would sit against a wall of tall (10') windows which face mostly North (the mostly is why the late evening sun in summer), so i was wondering if the light from all the windows would be enough for low light plants in of itself. Has anyone ever done that?

It's important that there be no noise from the filter, so which of the options mentioned meets those criterion? I've never used a HOB filter before, so maybe it's not the eyesore and noisy critter i think it is?

I think i'm being misunderstood regarding the distilled water. I thought it was an asset, but it's not requisite by any means. I can use tap water just as easily.

I'm curious how people change the water in a tank this size, particularly if it has a light substrate. My 10g planted tank at home has the Profile/Aquatic Plant Soil, and it is terribly easy to disturb when adding water.

Also, i saw a black sand product that comes all ready to use (forget the name at the moment). Is this a good product for a planted tank like this, or should i use that Profile again? I'm hesitant to use play sand from HD, because i tested it once and found it alkaline and very high in carbonate.

I'm excited about this project- it sounds like it can be pulled off!


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## scalare altum (Apr 5, 2004)

Well it sounds you are on the right track, but i would like to make some suggestions. That black sand you talk about is probably eco-complete, I have never used it, but I hear it is awesome stuff for a planted tank. The HOB filter I use is Aquaclear and they are the best for sound, they are quiet, at least mine is. About the rams and the gouramis, go with either or, that is up to you. I find it will be easier to get a breeding pair of rams than dwarf gouramis. At fish stores dwarf gouramis are given hormones to put them in breeding colors so they get this really good coloration, and most at pet stores are males (because they are the most brightly colored), and the females are hard to come by. 

The lighting issue is a problem, do not do natural sunlight, it is best to get at least 2 watts of flourescent light per gallon, with them ranging from 5000-6700 on the kelvin scale, so the lights will say 6500*k* for expample, that is how you will tell.

Have fun, it will be a great little project and will look awesome in your office. 

Good luck 

Joel


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## Newkidonthetank (Apr 3, 2004)

obout this tank, i might not no anything much about planted larger tank, but i have a 10, i would love to have it where i worked, but i doubt if burgerking would let me, lol... anyway, my tank is very presentable,i have a large hob for the tank, one rated for 15-20gal, and i can hear my ceilling fan more, if i put my ear to the hood, i can barely hear it, it is a REGENT, also packaged as "aqua-tech" "ez-change cartridge" not exactly what u want cuz of the carbon and all, but it seems to work great, my tank is in my room in the basement so it gets no sun at all, oh and for lighting, is it a incandescent hood, that u can use wally screwins in? or a flouescent, if incandescent hood, maybe try 2 cf's maybe 10watters, or i hear they got 14watters, even better!, u said it needed to be presentable so a diy coke bottle would be out of the question, i have a hagen canister and it dont look bad! i have i think a medium/high bioload, i have 1neon,2painted white skirts, 2 "porkchop" rasboas,1 cory and 1 figure 8 puffer , i am getting another 2 corys and another figure 8 friday,


i think u could get a normal planted tank going and still be "presentable" 
look on the bright side, u do a good job they wont look at the equipment they'll look at the fishies, and the wonderful aquascape u did!~

-Corey 

p.s. many peoples values of presentable is diffrent, mine i think is a little laxed, so take my advice, as u wish


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## scalare altum (Apr 5, 2004)

You mean you have a figure 8 puffer in with tetras???  Those fish have really different water parameters like one needs SALT(brackish) and the other needs FRESHWATER. Can I make a suggestion not to get another figure 8 puffer. I really hope you tank works out for you because you combination is not a good one. Don't mean to put you down, IMO I don't like your combination. But hey, if it works it works.

-Joel


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## Flandry (Oct 21, 2003)

*More thought-out plans*

Ok, so i've done a lot of reading and have come up with a few more specific ideas, and would like opinions on them, please.

First of all, in browsing around here i discovered dwarf puffers and (with fond but tragic memories of my Amazon Puffers), decided i'll have to set up at *two* (well, three- one for snails) new 10 gallon tanks - one at home and one at work :wink:. Now the conundrum is to decide which to keep at work. Here are the two tanks as i currently have them planned out:

The S. American elegance tank:
Eco complete substrate
Eclipse 1 double tube hood (i haven't seen a lot of mention of Eclipse setups here; is there something inherently bad about these?) for 30W light and nice filtration in an attractive package
1 pair of Rams
3 Rummy nose Tetras
1-2 Otos
Small cories?
Which plants?

The SE Asia jungle tank:

Profile (arcilite) substrate (mixed with fluorite?) to simulate DP habitat
Duetto filter with DIY CO2 feed
Lighting ideas?
3-5 dwarf puffers
1-2 Otos (I know, not Asian)
Danios
Shrimp for cleanup... and perhaps snacks (hmmm... other suggestions?)
Hygros
Crypts
Java ferns
Vals


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## Newkidonthetank (Apr 3, 2004)

ok 2 things, it must've been mislabeled, it aint no figure 8 it aint black enough? or does that matter! oh and i have it light brackish, only 1 tbsp of salt, instead of 2 for brackish, oh and it says for freshwater fish! it is that AP aquarium salt it says for freshwater, oh and i have been really cosidering an eclipse 1 double,! i got a thread, anyway, from what i hear they are great for "show" tanks,
i will prob, make this 10 w/ the puffer a species tank, and i have another ten i can use 4 the tets, but is the corys and ottos good? cant be all bad, heard good things, oh and my puffer seems soo inquisisive!, he dont follow me like a puppy that i heard they do, yet, yust got him yesterday!


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## Pooky125 (Jul 30, 2002)

Eclipse tanks are generally not used because of the amount of water disturbance the make, thus filter out alot of the co2 in the water. I have an eclipse system 1 single strip, on a 12 gallon, and I love it. I think they make great hoods. My tank is planted, with crypts, hygro, java fern, and salvinia, all of which seems to be doing fine. The filter, you might find to be a little powerful, if your using stem plants, but up the water level a bit more, and it should take care of your problem. The biowheels can also cause a little excess noise, but they aren't required. I use mine, just for kicks and giggles, and have had great success with them.

For Cories, if you can find pygmy cories, I recommend a nice school of those. There more active then the larger species, and tend to swim more in midwater, then lower levels. If not, I'm rather partial to juliis, or pandas, but both can be pricey.

For plants, amazon swords, bacopa lanigera, bacopa monnieri, Eichhornia heterosperma, Eleocharis acicularis, Gymnocornis spilanthoides, Heteranthera zosterifolia, Lilaeopsis brasiliensis, lilaeopsis carolinensis, ludwigia inclinata, Mayaca fluviatilis, Myrophyllum aquaticum, Najas guadalupensis, najas conferta, Nymphaea glandulifera, Nymphaea rudgeana, Ottelia brasiliensis, Phyllanthus fluitans, Potamogeton gayi, Sagittaria subulata, Sagittaria platyphylla, and Salvinia. I'm sure there are others, but thats what I can find aftr a 5 minute flip through my book. I haven't heard of half of them, good luck finding them!

Good luck with the tank!


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## GreenTank (Mar 2, 2004)

Dont forget a heater...Rams like it upwards of 90 degrees, which is alittle hot for alot of plants. Plus they like really low pH water. Rams are great...but generally weak non hardy fish. I wouldnt get them for a small tank which will have on off water para fluctuations cause of size. Get some tetras or a small school of Barbs and leave it at that..with some nice plants to.


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## Flandry (Oct 21, 2003)

90*F!!  :eek5:

I didn't realize that! Well, i guess i'll have to change my plans, then. Are there any plants or other fish than can be kept in those conditions?


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## tonySanAntonio (Jul 22, 2004)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My coworkers are amazed. I've got a 2.5 gallon tank with pink pebbles at the bottom in my cube. No heater. No filter. no light. No cover. no air pump. Air temp is about 72.
My guppies just mated. I've got 9 little ones. One black molly who nibbles the green algae off the sides. I haven't cleaned the tank in almost 2 months (which means siphoning the bottom until 1/4 full, then adding a gallon of tap water that's been sitting for 1 day). My Egeria Densa grows like crazy. i've given away quite a bit. my Cabomba Caroliniana grows much slower. but still doing good. The PH and ammonia are just perfect.
i feed them the pink betta food. just a sprinkle.
fish are very active and happy. the more vegetation it has grown, the more active i think they have become.

I don't see why you need all the extra equipment.


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## jbarone (May 31, 2004)

Are you going to post some photos?
I'm interested!


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## Ray1214 (Aug 6, 2003)

*Your Conundrum*

My tank at work is an Eclipse 3. I have a Red Flourite substrate and I dropped a couple of aruba shells into it for the shrimp. I have red cacomba, Water Wisteria, Ricca, green foxtail looking weed, One center dwarf sword and Java Fern. The predominant piece is a piece of driftwood, I chopped off from a large piece of African something or other but it was too wide for my 55 at home. It's Denizens are one male guppy (Dang he is old, I figured he would have bit the dust by now, going on 4 years old), 3 cherry shrimp, 2 cory haphesteus. 
The shrimp are by far the most active in the tank. The guppy i had rescued from a feeder guppy tank, when I saw his tail and realized it was a culled fancy guppy. The two cories follow the guppy around on occassion but mostly I just see them looking for scraps. They are the true pygmy cories and I may pick up at least one more. (They were a trio but one didn't make the trip to the office). I had figured the guppy was not gonna make it much longer but he is proving me wrong. My plans are to perhaps another cory, and pygmy rasboras. I find that smaller fish tend to really make the tank look a lot bigger. The other choice may be true dwarf puffers, but I wanted easy maintaince and no special foods. I feed my other puffers, live foods and frozen.


I do weekly water changes, 1 gallon at a time. about 2 times a year, I do about a 90 percent water change. Change the filter about once a quarter. Change the light bulb about once every 9 months. No heater in the summer but I do put one in for the winter. I have a fan blowing across the back of it for evaporitve cooling on the weekends since they turn the air off here on the weekends.

I find that smaller more active fish tend to be more relaxing, and gives you a large tank feel with smaller tanks. Also I think some fish like SA cichlids like larger tanks. MY apistos do so well in 55 gal tanks.

Ray


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