# Caton's high-tech 75g custom rimless



## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

Now going to be a high-tech tank, not SW or african 


I figured I would start this thread now because I am picking up this wonderful tank in 8 days :icon_cool
The tank is really 74.81g but I figured I would round up 

I am getting the aquarium from somebody in seattle and I am trading a goat skull straight up for this aquarium. When I bought 4 bottles of hydrogen peroxide (for the skull) and mineral spirits from wal-mart, the lady at the check-out gave me quite the look (mineral spirits are for re-siliconing another tank).

The tank dimensions are 48"x24"x15"h which is pretty good for africans. 

Stocking will be:
8- Labidochromis caeruleus (Yellow lab)
8-Pseudotropheus sp. "Acei" 
8-Cyrtocara moorii 
4-Synodontis njassae

Filtration was going to be a rena XP3 but the guy who did a RAOK thread for it never wrote back after a few PM's. Now I am open to filtration suggestions and plan on doing 1 or 2 UGJ's with power-heads and sponges.

Decor:
Slate rock from patio store
Black sand
Black Backround
Plants around the tank similar to yikejason's tank.
Anubias and vals

I am going to be doing a stand kinda what CL did with his, I PM'ed him for the plans for the stand and he sent them right back really quick :thumbsup:

Here is a picture of the tank being built (pic came from guy who is building it):









In-case you didn't notice the fish are all from lake malawi and I would like to keep it that way (fauna being all bio-type) but for the plants I could not find any aquatic plants native to lake malawi so I bent the bio-type rules.

This is going to be the tank that I spend most my time and $$$ into because it is big, really nice, and brand new. I would like to keep it that way. I plan on moving all my other fish to new homes so that way I can keep a little breeding situation going. If I spent over $250 into my 10g...I don't even want to think what this is going to cost.

Oh, and I have some mesh coming in from speedie408 who gave me a really good deal on his remaining stash of it that he used on his rimless.

Should I paint the back or not? What filter should I use? I want some UGJ's for some current. Should I convert my 20g high tank into a sump instead? What should I do for lighting? I am going to hang the lights. Scape is going to be very open with all the rocks lining the back of the tank. I really need to find where I can get 150lbs of black sand for cheap....

Suggestions or ideas welcome roud:


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## !shadow! (Jan 25, 2010)

looks like the glass thickness is a little thin don't you think? l'm just worried there will be fishies flopping on the carpet.


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## SearunSimpson (Jun 5, 2007)

To be honest, A coralia would probably be sufficient enough for water movement, along with which ever filter you decide. My only concern with UGJ's is that from my own experience with Malawis (Pseudotropheus Saulosi) is that they do dig spawning pits and or territories to lay the eggs into before the females pick them up into their mouths and are fertilized, so the UGJ might stress or inhibit the ability to dig a pit if the substrate keeps getting blown around.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

The silicone job looks great in the picture!
Can't wait to see what you do with this tank- good luck. :thumbsup:


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## Indignation (Mar 9, 2008)

Caton said:


> I am trading a goat skull straight up for this aquarium.


This is the single best thing I have ever or will ever read on these forums. 

Carry on.


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

I have a 55 mbuna with 9 yellow labs and i was going to get 7 acei, but now im gonna get rid of my cichlids and get a planted tank going. Tank looks nice but how thick is the glass?


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## FSM (Jan 13, 2009)

!shadow! said:


> looks like the glass thickness is a little thin don't you think? l'm just worried there will be fishies flopping on the carpet.


It doesn't look any thicker than a regular 75 (3/8") but it's also 5" shorter.


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## jinx© (Oct 17, 2007)

I agree with SearunSimpson on the digging possibility.

Are you planning any crossbracing on that?


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

I think the glass thickness is fine, I have not seen the tank so we will know on the 12th how good it is. 



> To be honest, A coralia would probably be sufficient enough for water movement, along with which ever filter you decide. My only concern with UGJ's is that from my own experience with Malawis (Pseudotropheus Saulosi) is that they do dig spawning pits and or territories to lay the eggs into before the females pick them up into their mouths and are fertilized, so the UGJ might stress or inhibit the ability to dig a pit if the substrate keeps getting blown around.


UGJ's will not effect anything with the sand, its just two PVC pipes running under the sand in the back to a sponge and a power-head on the other-side, if I want, I can make the powerhead higher and not blow the substrate. But from what I am hearing from the people on cichlid-forum its fine. 

I am having a really hard time finding a good deal on black sand. Figured I would have to pay $200 just for the sand! I really don't want to do this... I might use play-sand but that isn't what I want it to look like.



> This is the single best thing I have ever or will ever read on these forums.


LOL, thanks.


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## jinx© (Oct 17, 2007)

I've known a few people that have used Blasting Grit and seemed happy with it.

I haven't personally used it, but for the price it may be something worth checking into.


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## IWANNAGOFAST (Jan 14, 2008)

I had undergravel jets when I did my tank. Works great but it does create pits and dunes. Have you considered doing a DIY foam background? 

As for a filter, I would definitely over filter the sucker, these fish are real messy.


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

Yeah, I plan on getting two canisters if I can with the UGJ's, that will provide a little bit more filtration. 

I am considering doing a foam background but I am unsure of how to do it. Can someone point me toward a DIY thread?



> I've known a few people that have used Blasting Grit and seemed happy with it.
> 
> I haven't personally used it, but for the price it may be something worth checking into.


I looked at that link and sadly that don't have any in Washington or Idaho, I will be calling that black diamond sand company today to see if they distribute anywhere else.


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

AzFishKid said:


> The silicone job looks great in the picture!
> Can't wait to see what you do with this tank- good luck. :thumbsup:


Oh, and thanks


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## IWANNAGOFAST (Jan 14, 2008)

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=99515

I used those links when I made mine. It was fairly easy and since your tank doesn't have braces it'll be really easy to get it to fit into the tank. (I had to cut mine up into 3 pieces)

Here's mine:









It takes a while for the cement to cure but I think it's worth it. Makes the tank look real nice.


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

Thank IWGF, I will have to become a regular member on that forum, I only have 30 post's on there to work out stocking and commenting on a few journals on there.


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## IWANNAGOFAST (Jan 14, 2008)

No problem Caton, I used to be really into cichlids, my roommate and I in college had about 10 tanks at our apartment, all with cichlids. He liked the south americans I liked the africans. 

Only cichlids I keep now are a single electric blue ram in my planted tank, but maybe in the future when I move out I'll set up an african tank for my folks.


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

Cool! I live in a very small town and I am planning on using this tank as kinda the poster-child for more things to come. I hope to see if I get a small clinic here in town to have a aquarium that is maintained by me (I am friends with a main doctor there) and to get the vet's office and the dentist's with aquariums. I either hope for them to be african cichlids or something like that. They bring color (what they want...) size (which is what they want) and provide a show (locking lips, breeding, stuff like that). I don't know, maybe I dream big but since the vet is our neighbor and we help him out and I know the dentist (I went skiing with him) and the doctor is nice. So since I have a "in" on most these places I hope to at least have one get a tank for me to maintain and for me to make a little bit of $$$ to help with my tanks.


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## IWANNAGOFAST (Jan 14, 2008)

ooh awesome. Yeah, I think mbunas are the best fish for pop, they're just as colorful as the reef fish without all the hassle of salt water. Good luck with that!


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

I would pick pool filter sand instead of play sand. Play sand is to fine and it will turn to "mud" or develop gasses. Are you gonna keep any plants in there?


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

VadimShevchuk said:


> I would pick pool filter sand instead of play sand. Play sand is to fine and it will turn to "mud" or develop gasses. Are you gonna keep any plants in there?


I am gonna keep some anubias and possibly some vals, it all depends on if my fish want them or not though.


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## IWANNAGOFAST (Jan 14, 2008)

VadimShevchuk said:


> I would pick pool filter sand instead of play sand. Play sand is to fine and it will turn to "mud" or develop gasses. Are you gonna keep any plants in there?


I use home depot play sand on all my tanks that are not aquasoil, never seen it turn to mud before.


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

Same here, never had a problem


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

That tank is wicked man! And you traded it for a goat skull.... What more can me said?

I wouldn't use play sand, as it has a very nasty habit of helping anerobic bacteria grow. I would instead use pool filter sand. Much better grain consistens so no compacting! It is also pretty cheap. Ten bucks or less for a 50lb bag.

Also, I wouldn't go with slate, as this is generally jagged and thin while in the African lakes the rocks are all large rounded boulders and such.

As far as lighting and such goes... I would just invest in some good T5HO's and hang them a foot or so above the tank. 

Just keep in mind, the cichlids may or may not like the plants, and uproot/kill them. Especially the vals. Just so you know.
Good luck man!

(Ninja'ed!)


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## IWANNAGOFAST (Jan 14, 2008)

If you're not keeping any plants I wouldn't go with a light as powerful as a t5ho, even though mbuna love to eat algae.


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

JakeJ said:


> That tank is wicked man! And you traded it for a goat skull.... What more can me said?
> 
> I wouldn't use play sand, as it has a very nasty habit of helping anerobic bacteria grow. I would instead use pool filter sand. Much better grain consistens so no compacting! It is also pretty cheap. Ten bucks or less for a 50lb bag.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the compliments! If I don't use slate I will be using blue gravel, plastic plants, and some fake hollow rocks and will only be doing a water-change never. (Kidding!) I will use what ever is available, if not slate probably some black round stones that I find locally. I just like the look of slate rock so much... For lighting, I might go with t5ho because I will use it in the future for either a 20g tank rack for growing a bunch of plants or if I deiced to change this tank to a high-tech planted tank in a few years. I am hoping to be hooked on cichlids (that could be a store/magazine/band name...) and not have to change and will convert all my tanks to mbuna and shellies. Since this tank is so low I might not even need t5ho but again, I would be using it in the future. It was pretty random of how I got the deal set-up with the skull, the guy asked if one of our goats pass away if I would clean up the skull and trade him that for the aquarium, I said sure! My mom would be happy to take one of the skull that is waiting to be cleaned out of the freezer! and from there I chose the tank size. Might be using quartz for tank sand...I think I am going to need 150lbs of it.


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

Deiced to go with this kinda of background- http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=180796&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=0 


What do you guys think?


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

Caton said:


> Deiced to go with this kinda of background- http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=180796&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=0
> 
> 
> What do you guys think?


Looks good! Just be careful... Large rocks and glass don't mix too well.


The idea of having your own aquarium setup/care buisness is a good one. Especially if you know some doctors and dentists! :icon_smil I have gotten paid alot for taking care of someones pond. And I mean alot! It is _crazy_ how much people get paid to setup tanks and such.
Can't wait to see it up and running!


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

JakeJ said:


> Looks good! Just be careful... Large rocks and glass don't mix too well.
> 
> 
> The idea of having your own aquarium setup/care buisness is a good one. Especially if you know some doctors and dentists! :icon_smil I have gotten paid alot for taking care of someones pond. And I mean alot! It is _crazy_ how much people get paid to setup tanks and such.
> Can't wait to see it up and running!


Trust me, with this tank I will be extra extra carful because I would hate for this tank to get a scratch on the front or crack a glass pane. I plan on calling the doc's for a appointment or something like that. Is there any paperwork that would be needed to be done? If yes I won't call because since I am 13 I can't go into any contract (found that out with pay-pal  ) One thing I am going to say to help them decide is: "I know where you sleep, and you don't want to make me mad." or "If you let me set-up a aquarium and maintain it, not only will your patients be more soothed by watching the colorful fish swim, you will be helping me - a 13 year old entrepreneur - out with my passion for fish, and helping me to go farther in life" Which saying should I use?


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

Caton said:


> Trust me, with this tank I will be extra extra carful because I would hate for this tank to get a scratch on the front or crack a glass pane. I plan on calling the doc's for a appointment or something like that. Is there any paperwork that would be needed to be done? If yes I won't call because since I am 13 I can't go into any contract (found that out with pay-pal  ) One thing I am going to say to help them decide is: "I know where you sleep, and you don't want to make me mad." or "If you let me set-up a aquarium and maintain it, not only will your patients be more soothed by watching the colorful fish swim, you will be helping me - a 13 year old entrepreneur - out with my passion for fish, and helping me to go farther in life" Which saying should I use?


I am by_ far _no expert by any means, but I doubt that there is any paper work that needs to be done. I would try and start out with the doc that you know the most. Make an appiontment with him and figure out what he needs, what his budget is, and especially, what he wants! Next, take some time to figure out a couple tank options. Make a detailed and professional looking diagram of the tanks that you could do, with the price tag and pros/cons. Show him the diagrams and see what he thinks. Once he picks one and has his say, order the equipment and set her up. A couple of pointers though. Do not be afraid to say, "Yes that would work but this would work better." Be as professional as possible. Start a blog/website that has pictures/journals of your tanks. That way they can see what you have done and what you are capable of. And most importantly make sure you have every single thing worked out! (I learned it the hard way...:icon_lol

As far as pay goes... On "Payday" bring all your receipts all added up nicely so that he/she can see where the money goes. $XXX-Tank, $XX-Filter, etc.


That is kinda what I did anyway... With a pond.

Oh, by the way, the "I know where you sleep" saying won't work out too well... Number two, only a little less beggy. roud:


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

I made a background like this using slate tiles(come in boxes of 5 12x12 tiles for like 8 bucks) and I broke them to form. The nice part is that you can keep straight edges for the corners, sides, top and bottom. I affixed it to plexiglass because it allowed it 1) to be removed without having to deal with a ton of silicone, just a little 2) was much easier than working inside the tank. Just make the plexi slightly smaller than the tank size. I would suggest NOT going around the sides. It really makes tanks feel closed in. i did it then took it off. 

The other nice part about using slate tiles is you can select colors better. There is often different colors and grades of slate. 

This is a wicked old pic of a 29g I did with it. I was rushed and the edges are not as attractive as if you beat them a little more:


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

JakeJ said:


> I am by_ far _no expert by any means, but I doubt that there is any paper work that needs to be done. I would try and start out with the doc that you know the most. Make an appiontment with him and figure out what he needs, what his budget is, and especially, what he wants! Next, take some time to figure out a couple tank options. Make a detailed and professional looking diagram of the tanks that you could do, with the price tag and pros/cons. Show him the diagrams and see what he thinks. Once he picks one and has his say, order the equipment and set her up. A couple of pointers though. Do not be afraid to say, "Yes that would work but this would work better." Be as professional as possible. Start a blog/website that has pictures/journals of your tanks. That way they can see what you have done and what you are capable of. And most importantly make sure you have every single thing worked out! (I learned it the hard way...:icon_lol
> 
> As far as pay goes... On "Payday" bring all your receipts all added up nicely so that he/she can see where the money goes. $XXX-Tank, $XX-Filter, etc.
> 
> ...


I purchased a website, its greateraquatics.com but have yet to even work on it and have only played with it a bit by putting up some photos and stuff. 

Most tanks don't look that good right now, thats because I try and keep my fish happy and not focus so much on looks at this moment. I know that for this to work I will need proof of my work or at least something that I can replicate, receipts, all that jazz. I am confused on how much per month per gallon aquarium I should charge (example: $3 per gallon per month, that includes weekly water-changes, feeding, and 1 emergency call (another emergency call would cost $10, plus they would pay for equipment. So a 30g tank would be $90 a month to maintain and a 75g $225 to maintain per month.) What do you think?

I think I might go to the vets office first because they are our neighbors, we know them and have done some things for them, I was also hoping to get a apprenticeship at the vet because that would look good a resume: "at age 13, worked at vet".

By next year I hope to have my gliders license for flying, after that I hope to have my associate's degrees at age 15 or 16 (Look up CLEPing) and have my pilots degree by the time I am 17 have my pilots license. That the plan anyway...

Do you think it would be wise to ask around here for permission to use pictures on here for saying: "your tank could look like this"?


@over_stocked - cool idea with the plexiglass! I will have to use that. Thanks!


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

Have a well planned system with every possible detail laid out. Don't expect places like vets, where income is actually not very high, to want to do this. If they did, they would likely do it themselves. 

Doctors offices, particularly ones that have lots of kids, like them, but you're going to be surprised how hard it is to sell. They don't get anything back from this.... so the hard part is one month the call you and shut it down.


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

How thick is the glass on that tank? It looks awfully thin for a rimless 75 gallon...


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

over_stocked said:


> Have a well planned system with every possible detail laid out. Don't expect places like vets, where income is actually not very high, to want to do this. If they did, they would likely do it themselves.
> 
> Doctors offices, particularly ones that have lots of kids, like them, but you're going to be surprised how hard it is to sell. They don't get anything back from this.... so the hard part is one month the call you and shut it down.



I know this, and if they do shut it down, I get all their supplies that was used in their tank. 





> How thick is the glass on that tank? It looks awfully thin for a rimless 75 gallon...


I know that...lots of people have said that and I am looking into that.


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

Picture of the skull coming tomorrow. I would have posted pictures of it soaking in hydrogen peroxcide but...that would look gruesome and probable be deleted by a mod. Should look nice and clean by tomorrow.


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

Glass is one fourth of a inch thick also....


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## !shadow! (Jan 25, 2010)

my rimless 48g is 10 millimeters = .3937 inches which is much more than .25 that's why l asked.lt's kind of thin for a 75g. you might want to fill it up with water for a couple of days or a week or two just to make sure it doesn't burst once you have fish in it and all planted and stuff. l've read some threads about thickness of glass on rimless aquariums and so forth on google. You should look into it, better safe than sorry hehe. Anyways i'll shut up now, you're probably tired of hearing the same old speech of thickness of the glass.


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

I really can't say as the PM I got sent was vague, I will have to tell you when I get it!


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

Picture of the skull is not coming today or tomorrow...It will come on monday because I will be gone or the weekend.


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

I am picking up the tank today or tomorrow 

I am also changing the stocking list because I hear it is overstocked and if I have any troubles with the tank it could go south real fast.


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## rountreesj (Jun 12, 2007)

err.....that glass will not work... i had a tank with 3/8" glass, 36"x18"x16" and it failed on the leak test half way to the top...

I went 1/2" glass on my current tank with the same dimensions...i sleep calmly at night. 

With 1/4" 48"x24"x15" i would use it as a vivarium maybe. The busted out jeans doesn't help my conscience either. Does the tank-maker have any background?


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

1/4 is kinda think to for a 75 gallon rimless. I would have gone minimum 3/8 or 1/2. Did you pick the glass thickness or did the company? As for lighting on a cichlids tank. I really dig the atinic look since it makes the fish colors pop. I would go with a T5 NO so you can still grow plants and fish look nice. Here is the link

http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsU...3/cl0/coralifeswt5aqualightdoublestriplight48


Also i would look into this- I wish i got an UGJF. 

http://cichlid-forum.com/articles/ug_jets_scoops.php


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

I am not sure what to make of the glass thickness, but heck, if it doesn't work, there is always a riparium! :icon_smil

I agree with VadimShevchuk, a T5NO fixture with an actinic bulb would be awesome.

Hope it all works out for you Master Jedi.


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## syzygy9 (Aug 9, 2010)

If it makes you feel any better I input your numbers into a few different online calculator tools and they all came up with 6mm (1/4"=6.35mm) as the minimum safe glass thickness. No matter what the calculators say, though, seeing glass "bow" would make me very, very nervous.

Can't wait to see pics! (of the tank...not so much the goat skull) :icon_smil


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

The guy said that if the seams break within 6 months he will build me a new one... so then I could just make a riparium out of the old one and have a vivarium frog tank out of the other... He said he has been making tanks for awhile, he is a window maker I believe...I wear busted out jeans all the time, they make good work jeans, I don't care if I get paint on them or not.

Let me go take a picture of the skull...


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

Is he going to pay for the water damage, too? 75g of water could do thousands in damage.


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## TeamTeal (Mar 31, 2010)

+ 1 on actinic if you go with cichlids.


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

the tank is only 15"H so he wouldn't really need thick glass because of less pressure.


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

So we started loading the tank into the car and it was rubbing against the chairs in the back seat, it wasn't moving and my father said bring it it, I push and it went against a bolt that kept the seatbelt in place and the side pane of glass CRACKED , I will be getting a new pane next month from the same guy, but also, I will be getting the tank drilled for a sump system. Not a bad thing, just that it will take longer and the guy has to pay to get a new piece of glass for it. Nice tank other than the fact it cracked. It would have cracked if it had 1" glass BTW


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## TeamTeal (Mar 31, 2010)

so you cracked it and hes paying for the new glass? o.0


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Wow, that's a bummer about the tank!


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

Ouch! Sorry to hear about the tank Master Jedi! I Hope the wait goes fast for ya'.


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

TeamTeal said:


> so you cracked it and hes paying for the new glass? o.0


Yes, he is nice and it isn't just a business deal, he is really nice. I gave him two skulls just because I had extra. It was kinda funny we hear CRACK and then not 3 seconds later my phone beeps and I get a text from him saying "If it cracks, breaks or you drop it there is a 6month warrenty" kinda ironic.... But all is well, it gives me more time to get the filter, lights and sand. He added glass panes across the top as a brace/cover. Oh, and he is getting me some glass panes for my new sump that I will adding because the tank will be drilled...


@jake, I think I should change that master jedi thing....


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## TeamTeal (Mar 31, 2010)

Caton said:


> Yes, he is nice and it isn't just a business deal, he is really nice. I gave him two skulls just because I had extra. It was kinda funny we hear CRACK and then not 3 seconds later my phone beeps and I get a text from him saying "If it cracks, breaks or you drop it there is a 6month warrenty" kinda ironic.... But all is well, it gives me more time to get the filter, lights and sand. He added glass panes across the top as a brace/cover. Oh, and he is getting me some glass panes for my new sump that I will adding because the tank will be drilled...


wow, so those skulls are like gold eh?


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

I guess...he makes the tanks for himself and all his fish-loving friends, the skulls are normally worth $200 if they are good quality. These weren't the best because I couldn't get all the meat off and had to dry it. I plan on getting some bugs that will pick it clean and that will get it up to professional grade.


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

First of all, im really sorry to hear about your tank. Hopefully you will get another one soon!
Second of all, we need a picture of your awesome goat skull.

BTW for sand i would go with this-
http://www.pet-dog-cat-supply-store.com/shop/shop_image/product/733211afbf64463f89ee0111d461b565.jpg


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

Caton said:


> It would have cracked if it had 1" glass BTW


How can you say this? Have any idea how strong 1 inch glass is? Don't just make statements like this to try and suppress the naysayers. Sorry your tank is delayed, more... just seems silly to make a statement like this.


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## MlDukes (Nov 24, 2009)

Sucks about your tank.

I wanna see one of these goat skulls. Post some pics!


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## alan j t (Feb 13, 2008)

oh man i was hoping for pics, bummer


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

I have a picture and a picture of the tank but sadly, they are at home and I am 3000 some miles from home. I am in Ohio right now with my grandparents, this is as far east as I have been also. 

I am thinking of doing saltwater instead, but I would keep the tank filled for a month just as a test. If I do SW it would be like $1500 and that is a lot, most I have spent on a tank is like $300 on my ten gallon...and that was me trying to set a new world record for most plants killed and scapes re-done in a month.


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## rountreesj (Jun 12, 2007)

with the supports up top, it should help, three braces, on one either side, top and middle?


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

It has three braces, two on the top sides, one on the middle top.


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

So while I was sitting here, I thought what the heck? Why am I doing SW or maybe doing a african tank? I have 3 species tanks, had a bio-type, but never a real community tank. Sure I have a 10g tank with ember tetra, a killie fish, a thread-fin rainbow with shrimp but that tank is small and more of a experimental tank. I want a good tank that is planted where I can keep lots of stem plants. I came up with this stocking plan;

30x rummies 
6x stebai cories (let them breed)
Couple of L-102 or L-183
10x columbian tetra 
Pair Laetacara dorsigera
Maybe some otos
Some cherry shrimp or snowball, yellow shrimp, blue shrimp...one of those, I know some might get eaten but once I get a hundred I think I will be fine.

I almost thought of just having like 70 rummies but deiced I needed some variety. This tank is going to be kinda dutch style unless I find some butt kicking driftwood when I go fishing with my dad this winter. I also hope to get a carpet of some kind staurgyne with a bunch of assassin snails. Gonna be a major collectoris tank of rotalas and just stems. First purchase...fixing the tank...next purchase...getting my sump ready...


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

Good choice on going planted. Any pictures of the new tank?


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Nice plan, Caton. High-tech is fun!

My 75g is going to be a semi-dutch style as well.


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

I will work on getting a Picture. Sorry for keeping you guys in the dark with no pictures. Been busy.


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

Caton said:


> I will work on getting a Picture. Sorry for keeping you guys in the dark with no pictures. Been busy.


Understandable. Glad you are going planted though! I like your stocking list as well.


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

Thanks! I really want to get a lot more RAOK's in the swap 'n shop with a raffle each month of my trimmings so hopefully I can give away a lot because I know a lot has been given to me. Now...to get it fixed, drilled and figuring out how to rig a auto-waterchanger.


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

Who likes my really really big bold font on the first page? Pictures coming tomorrow...hopefully.


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

Couldn't get the pictures uploaded...sorry folks!


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

SIKE! I just got them uploaded:









:icon_roll:confused1: The horrible part:








Aaand figure I would show you a 20g high tank that was given to me...I almost don't want it but I think after some hot water and lemon jucie or vinegar it will be fine:









Sorry. about the terrible cell-phone pictures


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## rountreesj (Jun 12, 2007)

so....

is the the builder gonna replace that side?

looks decent...


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

Awesome tank... But where is the goat skull! :flick:


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

Goat skull was given to the guy, I think some might fiind the picture obscene and that is agaisnt forum rules. The builder is sadly no longer in the glass bussiness because there wasn't enough work and he was laid off so I am just going to get the replacement glass myself. This is going to be a project for my Dad and I during winter break. With the glass panes he said something about a glass top. I am thinking that is what I am going to do. I can't wait to get this put together. I watched a video of a guy drilling glass with just a drill and a water mister thing....he still had corals in his tank when he did it.


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

Is the glass cracked in that picture? sorry to hear about all of your troubles, seems like you can't catch a break. looking forward to seeing the tank full of water!


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

VadimShevchuk said:


> Is the glass cracked in that picture? sorry to hear about all of your troubles, seems like you can't catch a break. looking forward to seeing the tank full of water!


That's what i was just thinking... seems like you've had so many things go wrong lately! I guess that's just a part of being in the PT hobby though, right?  

Fixing the tank with you dad sounds fun though- i wish my dad was interested in helping me with my setup.


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

Haha, my dad wants this up and running so that way I will be quiet about all the things I _plan_ to do. Plan on taking the tank here soon to a place that drills glass and sells panes of glass. Shouldn't be too much for a piece that size, right? 

Since the 55g is so tall I was considering making a DIY wet/dry system but I think I want a stand where the tank is up a little higher so that way you can see the 'scape better. I really have to bend down to see my 10g and my 29 is at couch level. I want to do a simple tank stand with kind of a ADA look.

I was looking at your plant list Azfishkid for your 75g and that might be my base line, hope you don't mind me stealing your ideas  

I want to get something (doesn't matter what) from Tom Barr (plantbrain) just so I can say I have it. The guys at the GSAS meetings will be jealous:icon_mrgr

I don't know what I am going to do for sand. I am going to have corydoras so it has to be smooth, but I really like the idea of a red/tan sand. I have never had cories and I plan on breeding them...I hope its easy 

I am considering getting rid of something so that I can have around 10 neon/cardinal tetra because it would give a blue hint that I think would accent the color of the tank. 

Man...the more I think of it, I want to change my stocking but at the same time I want to keep it. I might just have to get like 10 more tanks so that I can keep all the fish I want. :icon_cool 


I might have to scratch the idea of doing a dutch style tank because the more I look at my other planted tank I think I could do so much better with placement of them and when I fix it, it looks worse. I can make tanks have a mean hardscape, but never plants. 

I don't know what kind of background, I have never liked blue, I like the ones I see that are black or white. I might try a greenish one and see how I like it. 


Estimated cost for the tank until it is worthy of me being happy:
$150 -- 40# c02 set-up
$100 to $200 -- Plants
$100 -- lights
$125 -- fish
$50 -- Getting tank fixed and drilled
$100-- random stuff
$75 -- getting sump all set.
$50 -- Stand
Total -- $750

That is a lot. I get like $50 to a $100 a month...this might take awhile...


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

I think I am going to do DSM with HC, once I get the glass fixed and the tank drilled I am getting the sand and rootmedic caps in there so that way by the time my sump and bio-balls, and everything else comes in, I will have a really nice carpet. I just need the lights.


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

Okay, I have been thinking on what plants to get. Here is what I am planning so far.

Alternanthera reineckii
Blyxa japonica
Blyxa aubertii
Ricca (maybe...I might have to trim to much for this or it might float and make the surface look nasty)
Cryptocoryne crispatula 'Balansae' 
Ludwigia Repens
Ludwigia inclinata var. verticillata 'Cuba' 
Hemianthus callitrichoides (gonna do dry start method)
Limnophila aromatica
Cabomba furcata
Hottonia palustris 
Hygrophyla polysperma
Ludwigia inclinata 
Pogostemon helferi (downoi)
Pogostemon stellatus 
Rotala rotundifolia 
Rotala sp. 'Vietnam'
Rotala sp. 'Goias' 
Rotala hippuris 
Poaceae sp. 'Purple Bamboo' 
Heteranthera zosterifolia 
Pogostemon erectus
Staurogyne sp. (not sure what kind yet, most likely whatever is cheapest and grows quickest might also do DSM with this plant)

I keep seeing more and more plants that I like. This will most definently change but this is the basic outline of what I am looking for. There is a lot of red in that list, I am not sure I like that, but I also don't want just all green. Hopefully I can get a good hardscape also. Not to brag but when I do a hard scape in tanks 20g or above I just love the way they look. But when I plant it the tank imediately looks like crap because I don't know where to plant.


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

Caton said:


> Okay, I have been thinking on what plants to get. Here is what I am planning so far.
> 
> Alternanthera reineckii
> Blyxa japonica
> ...


 Same here I have the same prob.alot of red can be fun just placing then just right is the hard part.I'm doing the same thing kinda in my 75


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

SO MANY STEMS! What is with you and Philip with all these high-tech thing-a-ma-bobs and doo-dads? You guys are making me look bad... :thumbsup:

The plant list looks great. I would order some manzanita for your hardscape and kill two birds with one stone. Also I am not a big fan of mostly red stems. But there where some stunning tanks in the ADG competitions that had lots of reds.

I think I know what I will do with my 2.5g though... Stem plants here we go_ooooo_.


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

Haha, to tell you the truth...I stole from Azfishkid...I saw so many plants that I liked in his list that I literally copied and pasted from his...its not plagarizing when you mix your own ideas with the original author...right?:bounce:

I will hopefully thin out some of the reds. I like plants that are green and red. Ludwigia repens is one of my favorite just because it has a bright red sheen hidden under the leaves. I am going to get manizita hopefully from Tom Barr (plantbrain), but that all depends on funds...


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

JakeJ said:


> SO MANY STEMS! What is with you and Philip with all these high-tech thing-a-ma-bobs and doo-dads? You guys are making me look bad... :thumbsup:
> 
> The plant list looks great. I would order some manzanita for your hardscape and kill two birds with one stone. Also I am not a big fan of mostly red stems. But there where some stunning tanks in the ADG competitions that had lots of reds.
> 
> I think I know what I will do with my 2.5g though... Stem plants here we go_ooooo_.


+1 Caton and philip are making me and you look pretty bad.


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

First of all, it is Caton, not canton. Secondly, thanks your kind words I might get enough money tomorrow to repair everything...hopefully


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

Got sixty bucks... Enough to repair the glass...but of course when I transferred all the money to paypal I didn't have enough to pay for the thirty dollars that came out right after that and I went into the negatives resulting in a thirty dollar overdraft... Lets just say I don't have any money now. :angryfire


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## !shadow! (Jan 25, 2010)

ouch l guess it's time for the S&S?


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

Man that sux... Everything really has been going bad for you Caton... :icon_frow

What did you do!?! :icon_twis:icon_twis:icon_twis:icon_twis


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

I must have walked under a ladder, broken a piece of glass, and had a black cat cross my path. I seriously hope that it isn't going to be like this all the time.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

JakeJ said:


> SO MANY STEMS! What is with you and Philip with all these high-tech thing-a-ma-bobs and doo-dads? You guys are making me look bad... :thumbsup:





VadimShevchuk said:


> +1 Caton and philip are making me and you look pretty bad.





Caton said:


> Haha, to tell you the truth...I stole from Azfishkid...I saw so many plants that I liked in his list that I literally copied and pasted from his...its not plagarizing when you mix your own ideas with the original author...right? :bounce:



BAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA. This totally just made my day.

I'm sure our scapes will be quite different, Caton. So no worries on the plant list plagiarism (just make sure to have a works cited roud. Lol, just kidding. I have found all but one of the plants on my WTB list, but i have to wait a month or two until the guy can send me a few stems of each of the really rare ones. I have pogostemon erectus, pogostemon stallatus, rotala macrandra 'japan red', ludwigia senegalensis, poaceae sp. 'Purple Bamboo' , heteranthera zosterifolia, polygonum kawagoeanum, polygonum 'sao paulo', and belem hairgrass on the way. WOO-HOO! (don't worry, i'll share when i have to trim)


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

Caton said:


> I must have walked under a ladder, broken a piece of glass, and had a black cat cross my path. I seriously hope that it isn't going to be like this all the time.


Ok, from now on you have to cross your fingers 24/7 to counter act all the bad luck. :biggrin:


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

JakeJ said:


> Ok, from now on you have to cross your fingers 24/7 to counter act all the bad luck. :biggrin:


Do you know how annoying that would be if you really had to do that? Omg I would go insane! Lol


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

Talk about finger cramps...


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

Great...I gots some competition now... at least send your trimmings to me :biggrin:



> I'm sure our scapes will be quite different, Caton. So no worries on the plant list plagiarism (just make sure to have a works cited ). Lol, just kidding. I have found all but one of the plants on my WTB list, but i have to wait a month or two until the guy can send me a few stems of each of the really rare ones. I have pogostemon erectus, pogostemon stallatus, rotala macrandra 'japan red', ludwigia senegalensis, poaceae sp. 'Purple Bamboo' , heteranthera zosterifolia, polygonum kawagoeanum, polygonum 'sao paulo', and belem hairgrass on the way. WOO-HOO! (don't worry, i'll share when i have to trim)


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

Lol surgical team to the emergency room !


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

lol Problemman.

Hasn't your dad told you that competition and losing builds character Caton! :icon_roll


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

After this week he should have so much character he will explode!


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

problemman said:


> After this week he should have so much character he will explode!


That or have the character police at his door... :icon_eek:


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

Haha


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

Haha, the previous summer (2010) I was knee bording, my knee was injured and they had to operate the next day...by my doctor who was driving the boat and my nurse who was knee boarding next to me. I hope I don't have to have to go to the doctors... My dad always said that I should lose, that way he will get the last waffle.


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

Caton said:


> Great...I gots some competition now... at least send your trimmings to me :biggrin:


Will do Mr. Caton, as long as you send some of yours to me! :redface:


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

I may just have to make this a riparium. I am toying with the idea, having it as a "high water" rip (only 5" from the top), taking off the supports (it would be easy to put them back on). This seems like it would be cheaper....GAH! I am so indecisive! I am considering changing my stocking too :eek5:


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

A riparium in this tank would be great! A good selection of _Pileas _and _Spathiphyllum _would be sweet. I am actually in the middle of writing an article for TFH on ripariums. 

Check out Hydrophyte's Blob, The Planted Fish Bowl and Aquatic Plant Enthusiasts forum if you want to learn more about ripariums.


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

Gasp! Don't call Hydrophyte a blob! I am sure he is skinny even though I haven't met him in real life. :hihi:


I might do a tester riparium with my 20g....


I will most definitely check out those blogs, good luck with that article. :thumbsup:


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

Caton said:


> Gasp! Don't call Hydrophyte a blob! I am sure he is skinny even though I haven't met him in real life. :hihi:
> 
> 
> I might do a tester riparium with my 20g....
> ...


 

Wow. FAIL! I will fiz tat fats.


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

Lol, I say leave it as it is. So that way people can see the fail.


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## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

Ok, will do!


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

Great


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

The min any reputable builder would use for a tank this size would be nearly 2x thicker. Most would do only 1/2".

Maybe 2/5ths.

You'd need to wait 2-3 weeks for a full cure after as well.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

DOOOD! Plantbrain posted on your journal!

Lol, jk. I agree with him. Try to get some thicker glass...


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

I am either:

A. Going to make this a riparium, and having it half filled (or half empty...however you look at it)
B. Going to use it as a frog set-up
C. Selling it.

I really don't want to sell it though.


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## Chrisinator (Jun 5, 2008)

How about making it a riparium with a lot of floating land space for fire bellied toads?


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

Could I keep fish?


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## Chrisinator (Jun 5, 2008)

Most likely, but some will say yes, some will say no.


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

Hmm....I would want a bunch of live bearers I think, that way if a few get eatten, it will be fine,


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

add some nice moscow guppys and a riparium would be cool. Hope you don't end up selling it.


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

Yeah...me too. If I sell it though, all my other tanks will go up in style...


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## decoman (Nov 2, 2010)

nice tank


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

Why thank you


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## JamesHockey (Nov 10, 2010)

hai,SHAREZ DA PLANTZ PL0X


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

I don't have plants in it yet...there will prolly never be plants in it 

Since I am moving, I am selling this.


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

Wait why? You can't take it with you?


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## JamesHockey (Nov 10, 2010)

Are you moving to Ohio?!?!??! I hope so!


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk


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## kwheeler91 (May 26, 2009)

you dont want to move to ohio... pick somewhere nice with a low unemployment rate


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## Centromochlus (May 19, 2008)

I know where k-10 is moving!


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

I am moving to Kauai (maybe). It is a Hawaiian island. Only a few boxes of stuff, and that is all. We considered Ohio, our grandparents live there and our Aunt, Uncle live in michigan like 30mins for Toledo.


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## JamesHockey (Nov 10, 2010)

Ohio please!


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

kwheeler91 said:


> you dont want to move to ohio... pick somewhere nice with a low unemployment rate


Granted it may be true but that was mean...


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

I mean this as sincerely as possible... no matter where you move, your opportunities will minimally change. Kids under 18 very rarely get to partake in the things you'd like to do. Even early in college you won't experience as much. As i am sure you are well aware, home school kids are often neglected in some of these situations. Not for any good reason, but they can be passed up for some of these opportunities because some people think they are less qualified. 

I'd use the time and energy to prepare yourself to get into a college with the best long term options. Be prepared for multiple degrees or graduate work to get the end result that you want.


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

There are multiple botanical reserves there, one on every side of the island, and then there are beaches with lots of fish. I plan on pursuing something with botany, or marine biology. Although I don't know much about SW or terrestrial plants, I am sure most haven't started at my age or at least started at my age. I really want to go SCUBA diving while I am there, although I have never gone, my brother and I know a friend who owns a dive shop near us. I hope to snorkel tons and possibly just to make some income is the make some knick-knacks found on the beach and try to sell it to the million tourist's that go to the island. 

I don't really know though, this is all me just dreaming, I haven't been there, we still may go to Ohio, Michigan, Florida, or Oklahoma, but I really hope Kauai is it. I plan on being graduated from high-school by the time I am 16, CLEPing out of my associates degree, and having my bachelors degree by the time I am 18. But again, just dreaming


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

If your goal is something in marine biology or botany or the like, don't bother with an associates degree.... If you are going further, it won't mean any more than you paid someone for the piece of paper. Few schools will let you "clep" out of a whole program, usually have to take a certain number of credits from them to degree. 

Take the science classes. And go to a large university. Research is much more abundant(or an ivy league). 

California and U of Miami both have outstanding marine biology programs. Note that most of them are some other sort of biology program with a focus. 

I have a friend who is doing masters research in Marine Mammalian Biology at one of the California schools. 

South Florida heat sucks though... HUMIDITY is the devil.


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

I don't think I will be going to college but in a few years, so I guess if I can just get a good reference or something to put on my resume I think I got a good headstart. I am more wanting to do this to learn, and gain experience, if I feel I want to continue to pursue it in a few years time, than I will, but for now, I will just stick with experience over textbooks.


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## fargokid (Sep 1, 2010)

I am more of a lurker but a friend of mine has your mentality and was going to a larger private college for pharmacy. very smart getting above a 3.5 and skipping class and he now is working as a floor manager of a clothing store barely making it in a cheap city to live in with decent pay... Also the more WHO you know the better off you are. I know it sucks but its likely how I'm going to get into a good graduate program. My boss and some of the professors here know others where I want to go. If you want minimal schooling with good job security in a science field try to get internships and summer jobs at research places. Like the school I go to takes on students in the STEM (science, technology?, enginering, math) fields for summer research based on applications. Apply to things like that in biology and others when you're nearing completing high school. Just my two cents...


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

That is exactly what I am going to do...I am going to try and get into one of the botanical gardens on kauai.


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## yetti82 (Feb 22, 2009)

As a person with an Associates I know that getting a good job is really all about how hard you go after it. You have to start in jobs now that point you in the direction of where you want to land. That associates may not hold as much water as a 4 year but in some situations it's ok and allows you to get in where you need to be. If anything atleast look at taking a class or two for your field from a 4 year brick and morter university. That will show that you have more drive then just being the clerk at a clothing store. Along with my associates I had the awesome opertunity to take an internship at a national laboratory and that goes a LONG way in showing that you have the drive and knowledge to be selected for such a thing. Then once in a job you really have to stick out as the guy that knows his stuff and is willing to learn things on his own. With this mentality you can go from being at the bottom to moving up the ladder. I just got a promotion to a position that required a 4 year degree by the merit of my abilities and my drive to never say the famous "sorry can't do that". I think you will find even with just a two year degree you can go place if you are ready to work hard for it.


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

yetti82 said:


> As a person with an Associates I know that getting a good job is really all about how hard you go after it. You have to start in jobs now that point you in the direction of where you want to land. That associates may not hold as much water as a 4 year but in some situations it's ok and allows you to get in where you need to be. If anything atleast look at taking a class or two for your field from a 4 year brick and morter university. That will show that you have more drive then just being the clerk at a clothing store. Along with my associates I had the awesome opertunity to take an internship at a national laboratory and that goes a LONG way in showing that you have the drive and knowledge to be selected for such a thing. Then once in a job you really have to stick out as the guy that knows his stuff and is willing to learn things on his own. With this mentality you can go from being at the bottom to moving up the ladder. I just got a promotion to a position that required a 4 year degree by the merit of my abilities and my drive to never say the famous "sorry can't do that". I think you will find even with just a two year degree you can go place if you are ready to work hard for it.


Thanks for the info


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## kwheeler91 (May 26, 2009)

push for hawaii man. ohio is below zero in the winter, over 100 in the summer and theres no ocean. i loved growing up on lake erie, but its no ocean thats for sure


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## fargokid (Sep 1, 2010)

Sorry to go off topic more but to the earlier posted why its sad people are looked over that are home schooled. I was thinking... I met a couple people at university that are home schooled some are very intelligent some cant barely walk and talk, just like at any public or private school. Why they are likely overlooked is that one friend had to have his friend teach him math because his mom who was teaching him could barely do simple addition. Just a thought but then again there are people with these problems everywhere... So if your teacher doesnt know what does that get you even if you have the potential...


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## Da Plant Man (Apr 7, 2010)

Most homeschoolers are sought after because they like to learn. I am not one of your "average kids" that you find on the corner of every street, if I want to learn something, I research for weeks, even a couple years now because I want to learn more about plants. My sister is in college and she is a the only freshman in jr., sr. classes....getting all A's....and she has one of the social lifes that it would seem like you would have to devote all your time to your studies to get what her grade is, not friends. Yet she puts a hour of studying in each class and passes with flying colors. No offense but most public schools, even most private schools are dumbed down and watered down. Most the kids in my dads 6th grade class don't know the months of the year...even just the days of the week, most are in gangs or doing drugs by the time they are in 8th grade because they were stunted in their learning. Just my two cents on public schooling, there are lots of smart kids there, but there also lots of SMRT kids there. My dad has been in the public schooling system for 15 years...


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## JamesHockey (Nov 10, 2010)

Caton said:


> Most homeschoolers are sought after because they like to learn. I am not one of your "average kids" that you find on the corner of every street, if I want to learn something, I research for weeks, even a couple years now because I want to learn more about plants. My sister is in college and she is a the only freshman in jr., sr. classes....getting all A's....and she has one of the social lifes that it would seem like you would have to devote all your time to your studies to get what her grade is, not friends. Yet she puts a hour of studying in each class and passes with flying colors. No offense but most public schools, even most private schools are dumbed down and watered down. Most the kids in my dads 6th grade class don't know the months of the year...even just the days of the week, most are in gangs or doing drugs by the time they are in 8th grade because they were stunted in their learning. Just my two cents on public schooling, there are lots of smart kids there, but there also lots of SMRT kids there. My dad has been in the public schooling system for 15 years...


 LOOOOOLLLOOOOLLOLOLOLOL


this is soooo funyy

if you want to see what public schools do to kids look at any of my posts,there all run on sentances, with tons of commas,i have to agree with the gang thing,here if you havent smoked weed or had sexual intercourse by the 8th grade you're an outcast and made fun of.but i am acualy very smart,im the only exception 

ive been in public schools for 10 years 


caton is the best


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