# Discus success with CO2 and ferts??



## 30king (Jun 11, 2008)

Hi All,

I'm making a strong push to add Discus to my 90 gal, mod/hi light, pressurized CO2, and EI fert routine. I've done some searches on this site and discus sites, but can't find the definitive info I'm looking for.

Questions:
1) How tolerant are discus of the daily pH swings that accompany CO2 injection. My drop checker goes from dark blue to very light green (this is with 4degree prep water). I haven't actually measured my tank water pH change, but assume it swings somewhat.

2) with EI dosing, how do Discus handle this; esp the KNO3 (nitrate) dosing?

3) What is the general success rate for discus in a planted tank. If you read Simply discus forum, they talk like its a death sentence. I'm not looking to breed.

Any othe rinfo would be appreciated.

Thanks
Adam


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## zergling (May 16, 2007)

I've spent countless hours reading about discus last year, and IMO you just opened a can of planted-discus worms :hihi: , buddy.

Search for dapellegrini on simplydiscus. He had(?) a planted ADA 120-P with discus.
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showt...wbie-Questions&p=717873&viewfull=1#post717873
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?91960-Phoenix-AZ-Discus-for-Sale&highlight=


Search for scolley here - he has a planted discus tank, though I think his focus is now on his reef tank/s.

Search for plantbrain here also - pretty sure he had discus in one of his monster client tanks


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## NWA-Planted (Aug 27, 2011)

Planted tanks, good for keeping adult discus, not at all recommended for growing them out due to the needed water changes, fertilizing and CO2 don't seem to be an issue. 

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## tetra73 (Aug 2, 2011)

NWA-Planted said:


> Planted tanks, good for keeping adult discus, not at all recommended for growing them out due to the needed water changes, fertilizing and CO2 don't seem to be an issue.
> 
> Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk



I don't think water change is an issue at all. I am already doing 2 50% WC per week. I am not even keeping discus. The issue is that young Discus is prone to illness. Then, you need to treat it with medication.


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## discuspaul (Jul 27, 2010)

Well Kings, there's good news, and not so good news.
My best advice to new discus-keepers wanting to ensure they are successful at it, is to keep it as simple as you can to begin with, don't overcomplicate things, and keep your TLC focus fully on the discus, not your plants, aquascaping, etc.
It can be a lot easier for those aquarists who have a good amount of previous experience with fish-keeping in planted environments, but that's still not a guarantee of success.

A heavily planted hich-tech tank with pressurized CO2 can certainly make things more problematic in properly caring for discus. While reasonable, daily pH swings are not abnormal in any tank, and are acceptable in keeping discus, so long as they are gradual over the day and night, and not overly large in terms of the pH level, any quickly changing pH can and usually will be a problem. Similarly, a high nitrate level is usually harmful to discus.
EI or other fert dosing should not pose a particular problem, nor should reasonable other carbon source (e.g. Excel) dosing.
To start off properly with discus, I would suggest avoiding a high-tech, pressurized C02 environment until one has gained several months' experience keeping discus.
As for keeping them in planted tanks, I have done so many times with good success, but I do religiously undertake large, frequent wcs, and follow a strict, meticulous routine of tank & filter media cleansing, with frequent tank wipe-downs, vacuuming, etc.
It certainly can be done successfully, but there's no doubt it takes more work and attention to say, a bb tank, and it often may tend to limit the growth and development of discus to their optimal potential.
Hope this helps.
You may want to have a look at my planted discus tank, where I've been raising juvies for many months. I know full well some may not reach their full growth potential, but as long as they're happy and healthy, I'm fine with that.

http://s1105.photobucket.com/albums/h357/discuspaul/Sept2011

Anything more I can do to help, don't hesitate to ask.
Best of luck to you.
Paul


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## zchauvin (Apr 16, 2011)

tetra73 said:


> I don't think water change is an issue at all. I am already doing 2 50% WC per week. I am not even keeping discus. The issue is that young Discus is prone to illness. Then, you need to treat it with medication.


Water change is a huge issue, young discus get illness from having bad water. When you have a planted tank you have substrate and plants so you won't want to disturb it all the time. Young discus, unless of course you want stunted ugly fish, need a bare bottom tank or sand at the most so that you can constantly siphon the waste/extra food off the bottom and do at least a 25% daily wc. When growing out young discus, you will need to or should feed beef heart and if that were to get stuck in plants where you couldn't see them then that would rot in the water. Adult discus on the other hand can get by with 50% a week. They don't need beef heart and black worms/blood worms won't rot like bh would. Also, don't get any kind of pigeon blood strain as it will pepper.


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## oscarsx (Mar 15, 2011)

people on that forum are full of it... its their way or no way. you can def raise discus in your planted tank.. will it be easy? he'll no and you might even have trouble with ei dosing because of the frequent water changes. 

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## oscarsx (Mar 15, 2011)

tetra73 said:


> I don't think water change is an issue at all. I am already doing 2 50% WC per week. I am not even keeping discus. The issue is that young Discus is prone to illness. Then, you need to treat it with medication.


two 50% on a 90 gallon should be okay. you won't get massive growth.. or maybe even grow them out to their full potential. they'll live healthy but won't be a good fish to brag about ^_^


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

30king said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I'm making a strong push to add Discus to my 90 gal, mod/hi light, pressurized CO2, and EI fert routine. I've done some searches on this site and discus sites, but can't find the definitive info I'm looking for.
> 
> ...


Yes, look how sick and poor these discus look:



















They have bred many times and so did the angels.

In general, 2x a week water changes are EXCELLENT for planted tanks, you cannot over do a water changes, other than time/labor etc........some simple methods to do water changes frequently should be considered, I use a hook garden hose to draina dn fill 5 aquariums. The tank above has a hard plumb drain and refill. So all you do is turn a valve to drain and refill with dechlorinated warm water. A plumber is well worth the cost to have them install something in your house like this, over the next 2-5-10 years, this will easily pay for itself.


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

oscarsx said:


> people on that forum are full of it... its their way or no way.


 
and now they spew their fascist dribble on this forum.


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## oscarsx (Mar 15, 2011)

Sent from my DROID X2


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## oscarsx (Mar 15, 2011)

plantbrain said:


> Yes, look how sick and poor these discus look:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


damn dude... nice set up, this yours?

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## discuspaul (Jul 27, 2010)

Beautiful set-up, Tom !!!


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## SlammedDC2 (Jun 4, 2011)

oscarsx said:


> tldr
> 
> Sent from my DROID X2


 The acronyms are getting more complex, can you elaborate?



oscarsx said:


> damn dude... nice set up, this yours?
> 
> Sent from my DROID X2


http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/tank-journals/34634-behemoth-1600-gallon-planted-tank.html


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## oscarsx (Mar 15, 2011)

beautiful....dear Santa 

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## tetra73 (Aug 2, 2011)

oscarsx said:


> two 50% on a 90 gallon should be okay. you won't get massive growth.. or maybe even grow them out to their full potential. they'll live healthy but won't be a good fish to brag about ^_^
> 
> 
> Sent from my DROID X2


You mean it is recommended to do 2 100% WC per week???


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## NWA-Planted (Aug 27, 2011)

Correct me if I am wrong the tank above is around like 3k gallons and those are all adult discus? I only say that because if the OP starts with small discus the maintenance will be considerably higher to grow them out. 

Just trying to diffuse some communication here, have done lots of research and asked questions etc. nothing saying you can't keep discus in a planted tank just depending on your goals will dictate a lot of what needs to be done with the tank.

I recently got 6 fair sized discus and hard plumbed a drain and fill line to the tank and am doing around 3,30% water changes a week and the occasional substrate cleaning. if I didn't have my drain and fill setup I sure as hell wouldn't be doing that many water changes on 125 gallons lol

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## Mxx (Dec 29, 2010)

For those that have asked about it, here is the thread for Tom's client's 1600 gallon tank. http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/tank-journals/34634-behemoth-1600-gallon-planted-tank.html

In researching and formulating my own plans for keeping discus there are a number of things I've learned or heard. 

It is suggested that the larger discus you can get to start with before you put them in a planted tank, the better. Apparently adults are fine, 4"+ sub-adults are okay, but juveniles are not. (Reasons given for this differ widely, but that's what most people report). 

My own plans would be to try to keep the substrate enriched for the plants, while keeping as many nutrients out of the water as possible. You could use a soil underlay, and/or comprehensive root tabs to achieve this. In that way you'd only have to dose the one or two nutrients into the water which plants much prefer to uptake through their leaves, (potassium I believe). I would actually want to install a perforated coil of small tubing underneath the substrate so that I could enrich the base of the substrate with a nutrient solution whenever the substrate needed to be 'recharged', rather than trying to stick root tabs everywhere. Fast growing floating plants would help suck up additional nutrients that get into the water, and are easy to thin out to then remove those compounds from the system as well. 

I would suggest large volume biofiltration using a denitrifying medium such as Seachem Matrix or Pond Matrix to try to keep nitrates minimised as well. (Some people have differing opinions on denitrifying media however). 

A high-powered UV steriliser or a decent ozone system would help maintain optimal water quality as well and oxidise many organic compounds into less detrimental forms. So long as you have an enriched substrate then it certainly shouldn't hurt in any case. 

I've tried to discuss and question issues regarding planted tanks on the simplydiscus forum as well, only to be told off by members that appear to have been there perhaps too long, and complained that they were sick and tired of having to listen to questions from beginners!... You won't really find a consensus there to support you in attempting to keep discus in anything apart from a bare tank with at most a few sticks. There doesn't seem to be much acceptance there of keeping plants or of questioning their orthodox maintenance practices, so take what you hear there with a grain of salt and you may find more critically informed answers here with which to try and achieve your goals.

I stress that my comments are the result of research however, not personal experience with discus quite yet.


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

NWA-Planted said:


> Correct me if I am wrong the tank above is around like 3k gallons and those are all adult discus? I only say that because if the OP starts with small discus the maintenance will be considerably higher to grow them out.
> 
> Just trying to diffuse some communication here, have done lots of research and asked questions etc. nothing saying you can't keep discus in a planted tank just depending on your goals will dictate a lot of what needs to be done with the tank.
> 
> ...


the tank tom showed is a client's tank. full pressurized c02. i believe at 45 ppm is what he had it set at, the point is. that tank got a full line of nutrients and c02 and the discuss are healthy. and with as many plants as it had, more than clean water

filtration is something tom does not skimp on and the type of filtration is also key here
most of his setups are sump related and after switching.. i see why

fish very much approve of sumps
algae doesn't.. they oxygenate the water very well, and handled ammonia very quickly

EDIT: NINJA'd by mxx


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## NWA-Planted (Aug 27, 2011)

Mxx I think hit it all square on the head 

Can't beat a Sump for bio filtration!

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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

NWA-Planted said:


> Correct me if I am wrong the tank above is around like 3k gallons and those are all adult discus? I only say that because if the OP starts with small discus the maintenance will be considerably higher to grow them out.
> 
> Just trying to diffuse some communication here, have done lots of research and asked questions etc. nothing saying you can't keep discus in a planted tank just depending on your goals will dictate a lot of what needs to be done with the tank.
> 
> ...


The tank has CO2 and EI dosing.
The tank volume is irrelevant within those claims.

Water changes and feeding is an easy issue, 50% 2x a week is plenty even if you feed them very well and grow them out in a planted tank. They do still get quite large, but you focus on both the plants and the feeding of the fish and leave an open sand area in the front where they can feed. 

You can do 3x a week 50%, or even daily, as long as you add some ferts........but in general, 2x a week is plenty for most folks.
I've kept them for 20 years, NEVER lost a single fish and sold off the stock at considerable profit.

The max ranges I was able to have them thrive.....eg no behavioral changes for CO2 was about 45ppm for 6-8" fish adults. Smaller fish will be more tolerant. KNO3, about 30ppm is all I ever went to, there is little need for more even with errors in dosing or other issues.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

I'd strongly urge those who have zealot like nature towards Discus to opt for the hard plumbed water change and to consider automated water changes daily. 

If tap can be used and is good enough for the fish, then a simple carbon block prefilter is installed, the sump provide an excellent place to do the daily water changes ona timer and if the water coming in is ever too fast......then a hole near the top of the sump drains things off. If the float valve sticks for some reason, you install 2 float valves, one a little hihger than the other in the sump.

The replacement water is can come from a RO water reservoir if you need soft KH's etc.

GH additions seem to help color in the fish.

So low KH but moderate GH(also seems to reduce disease).

I tend to stock about 6-7 fish in say 90 Gal, or a nice size tank, what I call the min is a 135 Gal with about 12-14 fish and well cared for. This is enough fish no#'s to prevent bullying etc generally.

I feed a mix of mysid, bloodworms and brine(frozen, I do not feed live except.....brine) and sometimes beefheart, but that is pretty messy.

A smaller tank,s say a 40B etc bare bottom and a pair of large air driven sponge filters can be used as a grow out tank, low KH, 3x a week water changes, fed often.

Once they get about 3-5", then you can move them to the planted tank.


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## 30king (Jun 11, 2008)

Thanks Tom,
I almost just pm'd you on SAPS about this; I didn't think I would open a can of worms.

I do appreciate all the feedback from everyone. Never hurts to hear knowledge and perspective.

Adam


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## tetra73 (Aug 2, 2011)

Did anyone mention plants that are suitable at a higher temp around 84 degree+???


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## discuspaul (Jul 27, 2010)

tetra73 said:


> Did anyone mention plants that are suitable at a higher temp around 84 degree+???


There are quite a large number of plants that will, over time, acclimate to the higher discus temp. As a concession to the plants, though, some discus-keepers will maintain their tank temp to no more than 82-83 F.
Some of these plants are:
Amazon Swords (all types of Echinodorus), Java Ferns, Anubias, Lotuses (Nymphaea), Ludwigias, Crypts, Rotalas, Aponogetons, Bacopas, Blyxas, Hygrophilas, even some Vals & Sags, among others.


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## NWA-Planted (Aug 27, 2011)

On the note of the jungle Val, mine stopped growing for a while when I raised the temp. however it has started growing again and the leaves are producing extremely tight corkscrews I think is due to the slower growth

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## MisterFish9 (12 mo ago)

plantbrain said:


> The tank has CO2 and EI dosing.
> The tank volume is irrelevant within those claims.
> 
> Water changes and feeding is an easy issue, 50% 2x a week is plenty even if you feed them very well and grow them out in a planted tank. They do still get quite large, but you focus on both the plants and the feeding of the fish and leave an open sand area in the front where they can feed.
> ...


Do you use a PH controller?



MisterFish9 said:


> Do you use a PH controller?


If so - what model would you reccomend?


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

You're responding to a post from a decade ago, @MisterFish9. 

That user hasn't been on the forum in a number of years but you can check out their old tank journals here on the forum. You'll be able to see how they kept their tanks and the equipment they use.


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