# awrieger's plant adventures (56K warning)



## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Hi there. I thought I'd journal my progress! 

Where to start? It's been years since I've had tropicals, having changed over to goldfish many years ago. Goldfish are very difficult to keep as they grow large and consume a lot of food so it's hard to keep their tanks clean and the fish healthy. So I alway sopted for minimal decor and bare bottoms.

But that's a bit boring for both me and the fish, so about six months ago I thought I'd add some plants. To keep the 'ease of cleaning' aspect, I opted to plant in pots (actually plain glass jars). Here's the first effort around xmas time:










The tank's approx 35 gallons, and I also added CO2 diffusion (cylinder plus JBL pH controller). Lights are 3 x 30 watt Gro-Lux fluoro tubes which makes it around 2.57 watts/gal.

Fertiliser was standard off-the-shelf AquaMaster Plant Food at 28 drops a day as per the instructions on the label. Here's how it looked about 3 weeks later in January, Rearranged it a bit (easy to do with pots) and added one or two new plants, and plants generally seems to be growing very well, maybe too well:










The jars had JBL Aquabasis Plus as a base with plain 2-3mm gravel on top:










The tank might look a bit crowded from front on, but there was actually quite a decent bit of space for the fish, which was another benefit. Instead of having to barge between the plants, they could swim about 'below ground level' so to speak without disturbing the plants themselves.










FOOTNOTE. The aeration caused my tiny JBL bottle of CO2 to expire pretty quickly, so in the four weeks it took me to finally get around to finding a gas supplier and get a huge 10kg bottle of CO2, all this healthy growth was undone, so I basically had to start again!


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

So, second attempt, and a change of personnel in the tank. Much larger fish! Am I a glutton for punishent? Some of the original plants survived, and I added some new ones. This time more as an experiment to see which would survive the larger fish.










It didn't take long to learn that soft Val in the back (not even sure if it is Val, seems more fragile so I suspect it's Blyxa), the Lotus and the Limnophila Aromatica are targets for destruction.

Anyway, the rest grew okay and I started accumulating runners and cuttings of the destroyed ones in another tank with smaller fish in preparation of doing a 'proper' planted tank experiment. Here's Bumpy inspecting rows of them:










But I didn't want to use the JBL Aquabasis, so I had to find some decent substrate. Another member on here from Perth, Duck, helped me out with selling me some Eco-Complete. Just did a quick test in a few jars to see how it looked and see if it could hold the plants against the fish's rough and tumble:










I really like the black look of Eco-Complete. To give you an idea of the size of the Black Oranda (she's called Sox), the mid-size jar behind her is a standard mustard jar, and the larger ones further back are standard drinking glasses.

I've concluded this substrate is only going to hold deep-rooted plants against the battering from goldfish if they have to push between the plants. Or else I need to leave wide paths for the fish!


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Sooo.. time to do a 'proper' planted tank now! Instead of a goldfish tank, I thought I'd experiment with my smaller 19 gallon hospital tank as tropical tank to see if I get this 'plant thing' right. 

So here it is on the floor last week, with all the required jars moved into it to acclimitise to the CO2 and the new light. 2 x 55 watts = a whopping 5.73 watts/gallon! Too much?? 










Okay, so yesterday I bit the bullet and set it up on my desk. Put the Eco-Complete in, transplanted all the plants from the jars, went and bought lots of zebra danios and silver tip tetras and chucked them in.

So this is it the next morning, today. My first proper planted tank, ta da!










The substrate looks really deep. I just followed the instructions which said 3". Maybe it just looks deep because the tank's not so big. 

Anyway, because it's on my desk, it's viewable from two sides. Here's the opposite view from my chair.










PS. That reddish ghostly blob almost dead centre is a 12" albino Oscar on the other side of the room.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

I really like this Limnophilia sessilliflora. It's so nice and green and fluffy! 










Okay, here's the plant breakdown. I've just realised they're all going to grow HUGE! Well, hopefully... that means I'm doing it right..

On the left side of the tank:










And on the right:










So there we go. It's not the most imaginative layout, flat bottom and all. But if this tank goes okay (ie I can control algae etc and keep it clean), I'll be setting up the two aquascaped larger goldfish planted tanks which I'd like to post here step by step. But see how this tank goes first! 

PS. Technical stuff: I've pumped up the KH to 10 and the pH is approx 7 to keep the CO2 up around 30ppm. I don't have a controller on this tank, so it's guesswork with bubbles. Um, what else.. oh yeah, I trasferred some media from an existing canister filter so cycling shouldn't be an issue. Ferts are K2SO4, Iron Chelate, AZOO Plant Nutrients and Flourish Excel. That's it I think.


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## duck (Apr 22, 2004)

I like the last tank.
Those goldfish are huge.


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## fishyboy (Nov 16, 2003)

hey awrieger so you decided to get on a plant forum(I'm on GFP too ave08)
Is that black oranda a Gunn fish? I'm happy you didn't use pots again. Should be nice when it grows in bu i'd toss some small foreground plant in.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Hey Dave. Fancy meeting a plant person like you on a plant forum!  

For those interested, Dave helped me out with my CO2 back around the first pic in this thread stage. I was increasing the KH, but then buffering it back down again to the desired pH *before* any CO2. D'oh!! I obviously didn't know much about the pH / CO2 relation. Not only that, the sodium biphosphate buffer I was using was sending the PO4 levels off the chart!

Nope, she's not a Gunn fish, but she looks very similar to one you've probably seen up for auction recently, so maybe he's getting his fish from the same breeders in HK or China that the people I'm getting mine from here are getting theirs from. They could've been siblings, but ended up on either side of the world!

I'm not too fussed about the actual 'aquascaping' aspect (ie adding foreground plants) right at the moment as it's really just for me to learn and get to know the ins and outs of this plant-growing caper. Most especially the fertiliser stuff and algae control aspects. And also learn what's involved in keeping a tank like this as clean as possible.


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

awrieger,
Are you running an airstone? If you are then you're outgassing most of the CO2 that you inject into the tank. A little bit of surface ripple is OK, but any surface agitation (bubbles and splashing) will cause you to lose a bunch of CO2. How high a bubble rate do you need to keep your CO2 in the 30ppm range?


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Yep! I love seeing bubbles coming out of pots! So much, I'm quite prepared to sacrifice CO2 gas to compensate for it. 

Apart from that, the air bubbles actually serve a legitimate purpose to ensure water flow through the pot the marble queen is planted in so there's no stagnation there.

I don't actually have a CO2 bubble counter, so I just adjusted the regulator until I got it levelled out to pH 7 (or close enough). But my guess looking at them through the diffuser would be about 3, maybe 4 bubbles per second. Maybe more.

But the aeration's actually not the main cause of CO2 loss though. The filter outflow pipe is below the surface but I've aimed it slighly upwards, and it's that rippling which is the major culprit. But again, I'm prepared to sacrifice CO2 gas to ensure sufficient and healthy oxygen levels at all times for the fish, and as I don't fancy adjusting the filter outflow twice a day, it'll stay like that 24/7.

As it's set up now, it's maintaining a steady and reasonably healthy dissolved oxygen level of 6.2 ppm at night even with all the plants and wee little fishies' O2 consumption.


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## BSS (Sep 24, 2004)

Very nice journal you just jump started with all the pics. Looks like you've got a pretty good handle on things. My only thought would be that IF you start having major algae/balance issues on the new tank, you might want to remove one of the 55w bulbs until the tank gets going more vigorously. But if you don't have any issues, then 5+ WPG must be just fine!!

Good work!
Brian.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Thanks, Brian! And thanks for the suggestion about the light too. 

Speaking of algae issues, yesterday (the second day) I noticed a fine green layer of algae developing all over the glass and I'm like "Nooooooo! Waaahh! So soon?!?", but today on the third day it was gone.

I can still see the fine dusty spots where it all was, but it's no longer green and it appears to be now deceased before it even got a chance to get going. So I think there's definitely something to this high lights malarky. I won't say it's high nutrients because the NO3 is only testing at 1ppm so that's a definite deficiency, yet the algae still died off. 

It can't possibly be an allele or a toxin because it happened just too fast. It takes days or weeks for an algicide to break down algae cells (believe me, I've tried lots of them!). And the tank's only been up for three days, so not long enough for an allele to accumulate. Something that kills thousands of blooming algae cells literally overnight can only be an oxidiser like a UV, Ozone or Hydrogen Peroxide. But no UV on this tank, or O3 either. Along with the strong light and high CO2, I'm also full-dosing Flourish Excel daily, so my belief that it's strong light + liquid C + O2 in H2O = H2O2 that's doing it has been strengthened! 

Speaking of strong lights, I've just worked out that now with a 3" substrate, the water volume is only 15.5 gallons, not the original 19. So that makes the light a massive 7.09 watts per gallon!! Is that how it works? Do you include the substrate when calculating volume?

So I guess I can switch one of the 55w tubes off (they have separate switches so I don't have to actually remove a bulb) and I should still have a decent 3.56 watts/gal. Which I think might be better because with the strong lights on it now, the Sessiflora on the left has already reached the surface after only three days! 6" in just three days. 2" a day is just too fast!!! Looky:










Brian, I guess the tank's already growing vigorously from day one! I'll admit that using all already established and growing plants has given me a running start instead of using plants newly-bought from the store. None of this waiting for plants to establish or emersed leaves to drop off nonsense! 

The Sunset Hygro on the right is also zooming up as is the Aromatica at right back. The Bacopa too. So I think I really need to slow the growth down, or forget about stem plants! Don't want to be pruning heavily every few days...

I'll keep the high light for a while longer though as I want to confirm what the situation with algae is.

I have to add the Sessiliflora growth looks a whole lot better in lower light and low CO2 conditions. You can see it in the tank-on-the-floor pic where I'd just moved it in and it's all nice and bushy and branching. But in the high light, it just gets all stalky and doesn't branch at all as it shoots up. 

Anyway, as I mentioned already, the nitrates are only 1ppm. I don't know if it's so low because the plants are gobbling it all up or not. I'm feeding the fish like crazy but it doesn't seem to get any higher than that (yet). So as an experiment, I just swapped out 50% of the water with some from a goldie tank with 10ppm nitrate. So I'll test again tomorrow to see how much there is tomorrow.

DAY 3 PARAMETERS:

Temp - 27.3 C
pH - 7.03 (how cool is that, just using adjustments to the regulator?  )
NH4 - 0 ppm
NO2 - 0.05 ppm
NO3 - 1 ppm
KH - 9 deg
CO2 - 27 ppm
O2 (night) - 6.2 ppm
O2 (day) - 8.2 ppm

So at full blast the plants are only adding 2 ppm to the Dissolved Oxygen content during the day, which means a full 75% of O2 is being provided by the air through surface exchange. And the plants *are* producing O2 - here's the large Anubia leaf in the centre of the tank.


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## vwboy53 (Mar 31, 2005)

Hey awrieger,
I am wondering about your JBL co2 setup. Is it the proflora co2 set vario range?
I if it is, did you encounter any difficulties in getting a larger co2 tank to fit? And lastly, if live in Sydney, where did you get the co2 refilled?


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Hi VW. You're right, it was a JBL Proflora CO2 Set vario 500 Profi 1. I bought the JBL pH controller and solenoid separately. Which actually makes it a complete vario 3 set, but they only had the vario 1 set, so they sold them to me separately but at the same price as the set.

The 500g little bottle didn't last me long and I only got it re-filled once. I bought the whole setup from Strictly Aquariums (who seem to be a JBL franchise) on the proviso they would 'sometime soon' be getting a re-fill service. But they never did, and the only place I could find who could refill it was St George Aquariums (cost $9). It was all very difficult and not worth it considering how frequently I realised I would have to refill it.

So I ended up renting a 10kg cylinder from Supagas (deposit, monthly rental and delivery direct to your door whenever you need a replacement) and lo and behold, the JBL regulator didn't fit! (Another proviso of me buying it, Strictly Aquariums swearing it would fit onto standard cylinders if I ever wanted to expand, but nooooo...). The JBL regulator's seal is only a fraction of a millimetre too big, a hair's breath, oh so near yet oh so far... but it just didn't fit.

So to answer you question, YES, it was very difficult to fit to a larger cylinder. Impossible in fact! 

Maybe it'd fit on a BOC cylinder, but I already had the Supagas one, so I ordered a Tunze regulator from aquaria.com.au instead of wasting more time (my plants were all withering!). They were really good. Said if the JBL solenoid didn't fit onto it, just send it back for a refund. But it all fit together. The Tunze regulator fit the cylinder and the JBL solenoid fit the Tunze. So now I'm not actually using anything from the JBL vario set 1 except the diffuser, seeing as I purchased the pH controller separately.

I've since bought a second Tunze regulator which I am now using on this test tank (along with a second CO2 cylinder).

If I were to do it all over again, I'd definitely go Tunze for the whole setup right from the outset. Mostly because of the lower initial cost, but also the lower expandability costs as well. I wouldn't have to get a separate cylinder and regulator for each tank. I believe their solenoid attaches mid-tube instead of directly on the regulator like JBL, so you can run more than one tank (complete with individual pH controllers) off a single cylinder if you use a manifold to disperse several tubes off the regulator.

Sorry for the long reply. I hope it helps though!


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## vwboy53 (Mar 31, 2005)

Wow! Thankyou! You have answered all my questions for co2. I have been searching for ages to find someone who refills co2 cylinders. Further I know the St. George Aquarium place as well as Strictly Aquariums! How large and heavy are the 10kg cylinder? (ie when full)
Problem is that my tank is in my bedroom and I am a bit concerned for the saftey, with regards to the cylinder. If it leaks co2 while im asleep or launches itself across the room!
I was almost about to buy the JBL set up, but the cylinder size seems safer in my situation, however I don't know how often it would require refilling. I only have a 10 gallon (or 25 litres in Australia :b) tank.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

A 10kg CO2 cylinder funnily enough doesn't weigh 10kg. It weighs 13kg empty and 24kg full, so the gas itself would be 11kg. So no chance of it flying anywhere! It's 70cm high (including the tap) and 20cm wide, so it'll be pretty big and noticeable if you have it sitting in your room.

For your immediate purposes though, I'd say a 10kg is overdoing it and the JBL cylinder would suit your needs much better, especially if you can get to St George Aquariums for refills. And it'll look much better too (not all scuffed and scratched like the industrial bottles).  Mine didn't last long simply because I had it on a 135 litre tank with heavy aeration so was wasting most of it and used it up pretty fast. But I still got a good few weeks out of it, so yours should last you at least a couple of months between refills.

The only thing is that if you plan on expanding to much larger tanks and larger CO2 cylinders in the future you can't use the JBL regulator. But that's okay, you can always keep the JBL unit as a back-up. In fact, I might just do that myself next time I ever visit St George again. Get it filled and just keep it as an emergency reserve in case my big ones run out over a long weekend or something!

PS. I've had no problems at all with leaks with either the Tunze or JBL regulator, or even any tube connections coming loose etc, so you should feel pretty safe.


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## vwboy53 (Mar 31, 2005)

Interested in selling your JBL setup?


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Actually, I've just given myself an idea after writing about it suiting your 10g tank and getting mine refilled again anyway as a backup. Seeing as I'm not using a pH controller with this smaller test tank, instead of using the big 10kg cylinder on it like I'm doing, I can just use the JBL cylinder! 

And here I was trying to work out where I was going to get an expensive manifold so I'd be able to run two tanks at once from the one cylinder, when I don't actually have to! Thanks VW, if you hadn't asked about it, it wouldn't have occurred to me! I don't why it didn't before... 

So, sorry and thanks at the same time! I'll be using it myself again now.


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## vwboy53 (Mar 31, 2005)

awrieger said:


> So, sorry and thanks at the same time! I'll be using it myself again now.


Dont be sorry! I should be thanking you! At least we both got valuable info. I think I will get a jbl setup.
Oh and last question,

Do the St. George place refill on the spot or swap and go etc?


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Fill while-u-wait, so you always keep your own cylinder. Good luck with your new setup when you get it!


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## vwboy53 (Mar 31, 2005)

Thanks! roud:


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Okay, Day 5 update:

Actually, I'll just repost the day 1 pic so you can compare them directly next to each other here.

Day 1:










Day 5:










Well, I'm pretty certain now that I don't have to worry about the plants settling in as it's a tad rampant in terms of growth for just 5 days I think. One of the stems of the Sunset Hygro on the right has already reached the surface as well. Much bigger leaves on it too. Meanwhile some of the Sessiliflora stems on the left are now growing horizontally along the surface about 2" worth. Basically, all the stem plants are growing fast, the Bacopa and the Aromatica in the right-back corner included.

But not just the stem plants. The most noticebale difference I think is the big new leaf of the Marble Queen in the vase.










Those are the Silver Tips. Not only do they seem to like this tank, they started breeding and laying eggs yesterday, by the way!  (The brownish one is male, the grayish ones are female). I'm not too sure how many eggs will survive being eaten, but I doubt any fry will survive for too long anyway before becoming dinner.

Anyway, the leaf's about 4" long already, and that's not counting the stem. And it wasn't even a baby shoot 5 days ago! But it appears to be showing the same deficiency symptoms as my other Queen in my other tank which I asked about here. There's iron enough in this tank, so that can't be it then. The nitrates, despite my adding 10ppm water in a 50% water change yesterday (so it should be about 5ppm) is still reading a mere 1ppm so the plants *are* gobbling it up. So maybe it's lack of NO3. But the other tank had plenty of NO3... dunno..

Anyway, just in case it is lack of N, I've switched from the AZOO plant nutrients to basic off-the-shelf AquaMaster Plant Food, which has 2.6% N in it. It helped fix the problem on the other plant (along with reducing light), so see what happens here with this one in the strong light.

And the other 'slow growing' plants are also popping up new leaves. Here's a nice one on the Ozelot:










So there we have it. Plants growing well, perhaps too well actually. Much too fast! The Val's are putting out new leaves and runners too. The only plants seeming to be taking their time are the seven lotus plants, but I've read they don't like having their roots disturbed and need time to recover from transplanting. But they're already looking more robust than they were in the pots, so they should come good I think.

No major algae problems to report yet either. No green water yet. The slight film on the glass is still there but doesn't seem to be growing. There's some algae growing on some leaves, very badly on the small Anubia, but it's growth from already existing algae on them before setup. There doesn't appear to be any new lagae developing.

And.. they haven't gotten around to doing the Anubia yet, but any leaf algae is now being taken care of by some Ramshorn snails that seem to have appeared out of nowhere. Magic snails! There are none at all in my other tanks, and none of these plants are new, so I have no idea where they came from!

_EDIT: I just looked back at the Day 3 pic and noticed that new Marble Queen leaf isn't visible!! It grew in just two days?!? OMG, this tank's metabolism is a lot faster than I was expecting. No wonder that leaf is showing deficiencies.._


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

I have a question if anyone can help me please. 

What will happen if I cut the light down in half from 7w/g to 3.5? If I do it suddenly, will the plants need to go through a re-adjustment period to adapt? Would this give algae an advantage and so I should expect an outbreak?

Should I do it incrementally? Like turn the second tube on for one hour less each day? The photoperiod is now 11 hours a day, so that would take 10 days I think.

Help, I'm too afraid to turn the light off!


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Hmm, I'm actually starting to like the way this is beginning look. At least from the angle I view it at from my seat. I might just keep it now once I'm finished learning/testing. Sort of almost like a living painting.. nice and serene having it on my desk... 










Mind you, it's a lot brighter than this in real life. The camera automatically adjusts down so the lighter parts don't wash out completely. Anyway, I doubt it'll stay like this for long, so I'll just enjoy the moment.  Look, another 2" new leaf popping up on the Marble Queen in just the last 24 hours. Too fast. Too fast. Too fast. And there's a 3" Val runner as well.

I think the AquaMaster Plant Food with the N in it (as well as another 50% water transfusion from a goldie tank) seems to be working already as those new leaves aren't looking as 'deprived' as yesterday and are starting to go greener. So I'm going to buy some Flourish Nitrogen to dose it properly.

Anyway, I thought I'd just post a summary of the specs here before I start changing anything further:

Tank - 60 x 30 x 45cm
Light - Aqua Life (Made in Australia) CF - 2 x 55W 6500/10,000k tubes
Substrate - CaribSea Eco Complete, 3" depth
CO2 - Supagas 10kg cylinder rental, Tunze regulator, JBL diffuser
Filtration - Eheim Professional 2222 canister, 500 litres/hr
Fertiliser - Seachem Flourish Excel, AquaMaster Plant Food, K2SO4, Iron Chelate, 3 x AZOO Plant Hormones - Auxin, Zeatin & Gibberellin. And soon to add Seachem Flourish Nitrogen

Flora - As per the two pics I posted further back.
Fauna - 12 x Zebra Danios, 16 x Silver Tip Tetras (9 x males, 7 x females)
Food - Sera Flora Vegetable Flakes, Aqua Vital Tropical Flakes


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

UPDATE.. umm, what day is it.. started on the 8th and this is the 16th, so this must be DAY 8..

Just more of the same-o same-o, me saying how all the plants are putting out more new growth, yada, yada:










Almost time for a decent trim I think. After the trim, I'll reduce the light by half as well to slow future growth and get it more bushier. I'll wait to do that on Day 14 so I can have an exact 2 week 'before & after' comparison. 

Some algae film growing on the glass now (naive me thinking it'd be that easy to die!), so I'll increase the Excel dose slightly to see if that helps. Maybe some the N content of the AquaMaster Plant Food is NH4-based and the algae is using that now (i'll test the NO3 later to see if there's any difference). Oh, and that silvery leaf in the foreground is actually the algae on an Anubia leaf pearling. :icon_redf 

The second new Marble Queen leaf just grew like a rocket, with a third new leaf coming up too. But it's not looking deficient at all.










This AquaMaster Plant Food made a huge difference with these leaves which are nice and healthy green looking now (I think). I'm dosing it far higher than the instructions say, but it appears to be a 'complete' plant food (N, K, Iron, Copper, Manganese, Boron, Zinc) and I had very successful growth with it in my initial goldie potted tank, and it seems to be doing a very good job now too.

It's Australian-made and less expensive than the European, American and Taiwanese commercial plant foods. So I checked their website aristopet.com.au out to learn more about it and discovered they also make a hydroponic range of nutrients as well. I might check them out!


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Oh, and where the heck did these creatures come from?? 

Are these Ramshorns? I really like them. They're doing a great job munching the algae off the leaves! I want more!










And I think I will have more soon. That red one on the left is the boy. I know this for a fact because just after I took this pic, they intertwined and mated and the red one had a tube stuck into the other one like weird gooey aliens fornicating. So gross! So I guess that makes him the boy.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Four more pics! Sorry for the big downloads. I got bored and decided to take some top view pics while I had the glass tops off. 

The back right corner - Limnophilia Aromatica (why isn't it red under this bright light?) and Bacopa:









And in the front right corner, from parts unknown, Sunset Hygrophiliaaaaaaa!!









And over in the front left corner we can see the Sessiliflora and a few Val strands:









And from the fast-growing stems, we now move on to the slower-growing front middle - to the right, the two Red Rubins. In front of them, the Ozelot Sword sporting a Ramshorn snail accessory. (Nice new leaves coming from all three of these plants).To the left of the Ozelot, a cacky Green Lotus leaf. Middle left, one of the tiny Red Lotuses coming good. And top left, the latest Marble Queen leaf:


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

DAY 9: Trim time. Forget about waiting another 5 days. I'm having trouble keeping up with it. The new third leaf of the Marble Queen is showing the same severe deficiencies again too. So too are the larger upper Hygro leaves. An iron test showed it was all depleted from about 1ppm a day or two ago. It's proving difficult to keep up with their nutrient needs at this speed of growth, so I'm doing the trim and cutting the light today.

So here's the before trim pic (see the very pale third leaf there?):










And after the trim with half the amount of light:










Looks much better now! 

You can see the nice new Red Rubin leaf now. All I did was just cut back the Sessiliflora and the Sunset Hygro on each side and that's about it. I didn't replant the tips as they are going for 're-education' into pots in another tank. See if the remaining stumps put out branches and grow bushier now with the lower light. I basically left everything else alone, except for removing the big tacky Anubia leaf and scrubbing a bit of blue-green algae from the smaller Anubia's leaves.

Speaking of algae, my 10 day algae report is not good. I've basically got every sort imagineable growing. Fibrous hair algae on the Val and Bacopa leaves, diatominous blue green on the Anubias and the wood they're on, green brush(?) algae on the glass, vase and Anubia wood, brown algae too, black beard algae on the Anubia leaves... you name the algae, it's there!

Okay, now I'm down to just the one 55W tube from this moment on, so see how it goes from here...


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## vwboy53 (Mar 31, 2005)

Your tank is turning out very nice. 
BTW I would get rid of the snails before they spread! 
I have ramshorn snails in my planted tank. I constantly squash them but more seem to pop up every so often. They eat the plants. Trust me, and get rid of them. I had some in my community tank, and it took over 6 months to get rid of them, thanks to some clown loaches. It's a nightmare to control them, and they spoil a planted tank very easily!


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## unirdna (Jan 22, 2004)

awrieger said:


> Are these Ramshorns? I really like them. They're doing a great job munching the algae off the leaves! I want more!


Oh, you'll get more . Yes, those are one of many many ramshorn species. They most likely hitchhiked in on plants (as eggs or very small snails). The ones that frequently show up on plants in my area are darker in color and do NOT eat plants. I like having them in the tank because they can have a significant inpact on algae. The only time they can become a pain is if they start clogging up intakes/filters. I have reason to believe that soft water slows down their growth significantly. One of my tanks has a GH of 3 deg, the other 10 deg. The snails in the lower GH tank grow much more slowly and do not get nearly as large as their counterparts in the other tank. I know they are the same species because I transplanted them myself .

Great journal, btw. I'm not a big goldfish fan, but I can appreciate quality aquarianmanship (just made that word up) when I see it. Fine work taking care of those glittery carp .


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## vwboy53 (Mar 31, 2005)

Not all snails are bad, some are great for tanks, however I hope that the ones you have do not eat plants. The ones I currently are battling with are very prolific, and LOVE my plants. (mine are common ramshorn snails, ie the brown variety).
I heard that apple snails are fantastic for planted tanks however I never had the nerve to try it.


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## fishyboy (Nov 16, 2003)

apple snails will make what your ramshorn snails look like nothing vwboy

How are red and browns different other than color? How are the colored ( breed, dyed, genectic mod)


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## vwboy53 (Mar 31, 2005)

fishyboy said:


> apple snails will make what your ramshorn snails look like nothing vwboy


wow, was i wrong! :icon_redf Im glad I never tried them!!! roud: 



fishyboy said:


> How are red and browns different other than color? How are the colored ( breed, dyed, genectic mod)


Different strain of genetics in the species. May exhibit different characteristics than relatives. Eg eat different types of food. Usually from evolution in different environments.
I wonder what a snail would eat if it could survive in a public swimming pool?
... People, ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRH! :icon_eek:

What are the good snail for planted tank? Know the name (btw I won't try them, just so I know)?


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## fishyboy (Nov 16, 2003)

MTS, pondsnails are ok... I only have pond snails(hickhikers) but MTS's are great i've heard and during the day they all stay hid under the substrate so you never see them over than the rippling of the gravel.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Hey, thanks guys. Thanks VW, and thanks for the great compliment, Unirdna. 

Lookie, snail eggs! 










A couple of these pods about the tank. One snail even has one on her shell, put there by another snail!

They do grow fast though. From mere specks two weeks ago, they're well over 1cm in shell diameter now.

These snails are doing an excellent job clearing the algae off everything. Maybe if they run out of algae (or there are too many of them) and they start getting hungry, they'll go for the plants, but right now they're doing a great job keeping the leaves algae free. Especially the Vals, even on the surface leaves where I've always had a problem with hair algae once these types of leaves spread across the surface.

I'm keeping them!  I'm just wondering if I transfer them to the goldie tanks, whether they'll end up as bite-size snacks for the fish. 

DAY 17 UPDATE (8 days now of reduced 3.5w/g):










Plant growth is still fast. The Val's now covering much of the surface. Both the Bacopa and Aromatica have now reached the surface too, along with the already trimmed Sessiliflora and Hygro doing it again. The Red Rubin swords putting out nice big leaves. Next to the Sessilflora in the foreground, you can see a nice new Green Lotus leaf! And behind it, all the Red Lotuses are all doing the same too (but with red leaves)!

The only plant not doing well, which I wrongly assumed would do best in high light conditions, is the Rotala macrandra (squeezed between the Sessiliflora and Lotuses). You can't even see it in the pic because the stems are so small and spindly with tiny leaves, unlike in my non-C02 tank where it's got big wide leaves.

But all the growth is all too long and stemmy and spindly. Even the sword plants' stems are too long. Look at that Marble Queen leaf. It's up near the surface on a long stem instead of being down near the base. I want them all more bushier and compact, so I'm going to do another trim tomorrow and cut the CO2 back from 27ppm down to about 15ppm. Which means I'll have to lower the KH to keep the pH around 7, so if I do a 50% water change, I'll have to ... aaack! Too much mathematics!!

Unirdna, maybe the snails' growth speed depends on the hardness because they need the extra calcium for their shells? I don't know anything about snails, so I'll have to find out about that.


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

This tank sure has come a long way... lookin good ! roud:


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Thanks Buck. 

It's veering dangerously towards 'jungle' status though! I really want to get everything to slow down and grow more compact and bushier if I can. The Sessiliflora for instance is too spindly and doesn't look anywhere near as nice and bushy as when I first put it in.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

DAY 20:

Still getting that jungle thing happening:










Okay, the stem plants are too stemmy, not at all the way I'd like them to be, so I'm going to cut back on the CO2 to see if that makes them grow bushier now. But first another trim:










You can see the JBL diffuser on the right now! 

Instead of just trimming this time, I completely pulled out all three plots of stem plants (Aromatica at rear right, Hygro at right and all the Sessiliflora on the left). I replanted about 2 inch lengths of the tips of the Aromatica. Same with the Sessiliflora, but I used cuttings from another tank instead of from the existing ones (I have spares!), and I totally removed all the Hygro so it's gone now.

In it's place I put some more Sessiliflora, so now I have it in both front corners. I suspect all the Val leaves covering the surface may be blocking the light on the left and they're not so thick on the right, so I want to see if there's any difference between the growth-patterns in the two corners now.

So I've already halved the light before down to 3.5w/g light, so now I'm going to see how it goes with half the CO2 now as well, approx 12-15ppm. See what happens! If it turns out the Val leaves *are* blocking a lot of the light, I'll put the other tube back in to take it back to it's original 7w/g.


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## duck (Apr 22, 2004)

You did have a bit of a jungle happening .


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

Great works awreiger, I personally think that the glass pots were a great idea and they were growing as well. Luckly enough you were able to take them out and plant them before they could turn into a piece of sod. I am still wondering how come stem doesn't grow bushier in C02 than non C02.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Thanks John! I still actually have plants growing in glass pots. Two rows of swords here:










This is actually the tank destined for the first aquascaping once I've finished my testing with the test tank. It's approx 3' long (35 gallons). So all these plants will be transplanted out their pots soon too. And not a moment too soon as some of the larger ones are getting root bound. You can see some roots coming out of the pots. A couple of Marble runners there too, so more plants to plant!

It's currently got 12ppm CO2, but also has algae issues and a daily iron deficiency from the UV oxidising it all every night (when it switches on), but you can see what I mean about the stems of the Marble Queen swords being shorter in this tank with less CO2 than compared to the one in the test tank.

But pots make for such easy cleaning of the tank! So I've also just started an experiment with growing multiple plants together in the same pot (instead of just individually). Sort of like a bouquet arrangement! 










They're just plastic tupperware containers at the moment, and there's no CO2 in this tank so the plants are a bit stunted (but see how bushy the Sess is!), but a stylish ceramic pot with a plant bouquet would look quite artful, I think.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

DAY 21 - (THREE WEEKS!)

No particular reason for this update as it's exactly the same as yesterday after the trim, except this is a better picture (I think I had the camera set for 'close-up' in yesterday's pics so they're a bit blurry):










Sessiliflora cuttings settling in nicely and looking good and fluffy. Stay bushy!

PS. Now it's been uncovered, you can see the algae on the old Anubia leaf, but that was there originally before I put it in. Maybe the snails can clear it up now they can get to it.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

ONE MONTH. YAY!! Time for bigger pics! 

Or give or take a few days. The desk-side view a couple of days ago:










No visible or obvious algae problems to date at all (apart from what was originally on the Anubia leaves), except on the vase. But the snails are keeping it nicely trimmed down which gives it a lovely archaic effect I think. So full credit to the snails for keeping any algae under control - nothing to do with my own efforts!

And the other side today:










Nice jungle happening here. It's hard to believe there are 30 fish in there (I added 2 cute little Panda corydoras last week). 30 fish in 15 gallons is okay, isn't it?  Well, 29 really, because I seem to have misplaced a Danio somewhere along the line. 

The Red Rubin is really taking off now, nice and dark. But the Vals are totally dominating this tank, blocking a fair amount of the light with all their surface leaves. The Lotuses and the Rotala Macranda would definitely do better with more access to the light I think.

Well, I seem to be able to get the plants to 'grow', but definitely don't know how to get them to 'grow properly'. Dropping the CO2 down to 15ppm made no difference to the internode lengths on the stem plants. This pic is with CO2 back up to 30ppm and 7w/g light. I even increased the NO3 to over 30ppm from its previous very low levels. No difference. Maybe it's the water hardness or something else.

As for the light, the group of Sessiliflora on the right with more light is growing exactly the same as the group on the left under the shade of the Val, except much faster. So that's the only difference the extra light seems to make.

Anyway, one month is enough! Time to destroy this tank and strip it down!

I guess I'm stuck with all these little tropical fish now, so I'm going to transfer the contents to a 24 gallon tank against the wall. Which means I won't be able to view it from both sides like now, so I'll have to do a bit of 'aquascaping'. Taller plants towards the rear and that sort of clever thing! Maybe even get some smaller foregound plants.. dunno yet.. but definitely no rocks or driftwood though, except for the little bits the Anubias are sitting on. I much prefer artificial themes (ie my relic vase there) or even the 'Dutch' cottage garden style, rather than emulating a natural habitat even if it's a highly stylised Armano-style. But that's just me!


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

TEST TANK #2:










Actually, not a test tank at all. Just a temporary holding tank I set up in the basement last week to hold some of the plants while I attempt to salvage what remains of my fish collection from the devastation wreaked by a sudden increase in ammonia and chloramines in my tapwater. My two best and biggest prize goldfish (their pics are in this thread) have perished. The rest are either struggling to recover or are in critical condition and I'm going to lose them too. To say I am as utterly devastated as my tanks are is an understatement...

Anyway, this tank I set up last week as an emergency holding tank. Help get the plants established in a substrate as well anyway after a life in constrictive pots I suppose. The pic was taken about 3 hours after set-up. Light is 2 x 55w for approx 3w/g.

In the finest style of Amano-inspiration, the room decor is water-stained, basement cement-rendered wall backdrop. The exquisite architecturally inspired stand is a couple of old wardrobe doors mounted on bricks. In the darkness of the bottom right corner you may be able to make out the CO2 cylinder and gauge. The JBL pH monitor is sitting to the left, still to be connected. It's now underneath on the second shelf (door).

Here it is yesterday, a week later:










Dang, that Hygro grows fast! I haven't touched any of the plants at all since setup, except I added some little foreground plants which I bought for when I re-setup my original test tank in it's new home. Basically just whatever the lfs had available, some baby tears and hair grass. And a couple of Hygrophila corymbosa 'compact' as possible mid-size small bushes.

Oh! Those two dark ball things that look like WW2 underwater mines are called "Fontinalis Topiary Balls'. Here's a close-up of one:










Cute, huh? Nice idea, I thought. Simple too. Just a ball of moss wrapped with mesh and attached with a fishing line to a lead sinker to hold it down. The moss just grows out through the mesh like one of those little troll dolls.

It's apparently Willow Moss (fontinalis antipyretica), not Java Moss (vesicularia dubyana), although it's difficult for someone inexperienced like me to tell the difference.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Okay, it's goldfish tank day! 35 gallon tank. My first 'aquascape'! 

STEP 1: Install under gravel heating (Dupla Thermix Set 20w)










STEP 2: Eco-Complete!










STEP 3: Position the centrepiece, a Tibetan Buddha. In the centre of course, where else! 










STEP 4: Pipes, filters and all that other life support stuff. Then fill her up:










Looks nice and moody at this point with that backlight and spooky mist. But nope, can't stop there!

STEP 5: Add plants and 2 x goldfish! Bumpy and Big Red volunteered. 










The statue should 'grunge' in eventually. It looks very white and new right now. I'm trying to achieve a submerged Tibetan Jungle-look theme, but still keep a bit of symmetry to it. It's very hard to actually do a jungle on purpose without making it look contrived! Had to re-arrange it three times from scratch just to get it to this point.

Anyway, they're all rooted plants, no stems (except for a couple of Aromatica cuttings right at the back). It's not a very deep tank front to back, so I put those swords in front of the Buddha to give some illusion of depth to the jungle. And I'm not sure about the Vals on either end. They seem to make a nice frame, but perhaps make it look more contrived than it should be. But see how it looks when it all grows in a bit.

Wait, what's that I hear you say? There are *no* jungles in Tibet? What!! Have you never heard of Shangri-La?! My little oasis of peace and serenity... 

Well, that's it for my first attempt! Nothing fancy. No rocks or wood. Just a flat substrate, a statue and some plants.

Next up, I will be attempting a more 'natural' biotype style as I re-do my little tropical test tank and move it into it's new home.


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

I love it, you did a great job. Although I think those fishies need a bigger tank!


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Thanks Jdinh. 

I know! And they're only a small and medium sized fish! They were in a same sized but completely bare tank before and it looked empty with them in it. But now it looks cramped! 

It may be the substrate, statue and the crowded plants taking up actual space, but I really think it's that Val on the sides taking away the illusion of visual space. Making it look more 'closed-in' and cramped than it really is. I might take it away eventually once the rest of the plants start growing bigger and thicker.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Aaaacckk! 

Well, that would have to be the shortest-lived aquascape ever! Barely 18 hours after completion! This morning I woke to find the tank's top centre-brace glass sitting submerged on Buddha's head, in turn propping up the rest of the cover glasses. The silicon holding the brace just gave out and the front and back glass were bending outwards in the middle about a centimetre. It was still attached a bit at the front, so it was just resting on the Buddha.

I'm so lucky the whole tank just didn't crack or give out when the brace gave way during the night and pour water everywhere, including all over the electrics.

Well, I spent *all* day today setting up another tank the same size (I was planning on doing it next anyway) and transferring everything over, so I'm exhausted. Everything except the Buddha because that's the second time I've tried using it in a tank and it's not bringing me any luck, so I'll leave it aside for the time being I think! Mind you, Buddha did prevent all the glass from falling to the bottom, possibly harming the fish and plants.

Tomorrow I'll replace the broken tank with the back-up one from the basement (as seen on the previous page) and take it back to the shop to be repaired, so that'll be my back-up tank instead in future.

*Sigh* Nothing like starting all over again!


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## unirdna (Jan 22, 2004)

I hope this near disaster has "enlightened" you :hihi: .

JK. It would have been fun to watch Buddha get a nice coat of algae.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Thanks Unirdna. It would have been nice to see the statue blend in eventually with the plants. Oh well. The fish and plants are safely ensconced in another tank now, a 35g butted up against the front of my desk so this is my view now:










That Tunze pH controller is just sitting on my desk there. So this is an even less fancy aquascape than the Buddha one! An emergency set-up in a sense. Just basically as many different types of rooted plants as possible, and see how thick and crowded they all grow. I used that 'broken' urn from the test tank instead, this time with an Ozelot sword in it.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Anyway, I've been inspired by your hairgrass tank! I decided if all the goldie tanks have ornaments and suchlike, I may as well try a natural scape when relocating the tropical test tank into it's new 24g home.










Yes, rocks and a piece of driftwood! I succumbed! I'm actually not so keen on the wood, but I couldn't think of anything else to attach the moss to. I used some black cotton thread to attach the moss. Lilaeopsis border around the rocks.










Still a little murky the next day. Took me several hours to plant all the hairgrass strands. A small bunch of baby tears between the two rocks. A green lotus in front of the left rock, two red lotuses in front of the right one. I actually started planting the hairgrass from the left and then realised I didn't have enough as I went along so it gets thinner to the right!










The view from the left. The backround stems are a bit of Bacopa and then some Aromatica on the right, Rotala Macranda in the centre, and some new stuff I bought simply labelled 'Magenta' (I'll have to find out what it is).


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## Jdinh04 (Mar 15, 2004)

Nice new scape, that moss with the wood is an oustanding piece. It will look soo much better once the moss grows.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Thanks John. I hope so. 

Being Willow Moss though, I'm not quite sure if it's the same as Java Moss and will stay attached to the wood once the cotton threads dissolve. I can't seem to find much info about it, so I'm just guessing/hoping it will!


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

It's looking a bit more respectable now it's clearing up a bit. Because there's no air bubble column in this tank, I'm having trouble maintaining the O2 levels above dangerously low levels, so I've got the spray bar up the top left there agitating the surface. But the current is huge because I'm using a much larger filter than on the previous test tank, so I've aimed it at the glass which is causing a lot of tiny bubbles. I need to work on that.










And on the right there next to the heater is the black JBL CO2 diffuser. I bought an extension for it, so it's almost a foot long now!

And for those interested, here's the CO2 set-up. The 10kg cylinder's too large to fit inside the cabinet, so it's outside next to the stand where I can bathe in the beauty of it's scratched, industrial khaki and technical stickers!










That's a Tunze regulator and pH controller. The controller is attached to the stand with some handy black velcro stickers provided as optional with the unit, so you can rip it off and re-attach it when you want. The solenoid is actually inside a little plastic box (also attached with velcro) you can see just behind the top dial of the regulator. It doesn't attach directly to the regulator like the JBL solenoid does.

Another difference with the Tunze controller is that you simply adjust the numbers and settings by turning those little white plastic dials left or right. It's a lot simpler to work than the JBL one, where you adjust it like an electronic clock by pressing the buttons to scroll through the numbers/settings.


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## duck (Apr 22, 2004)

You got some good looking tank's.
I was a little worried when i got my CO2 bottle home that it wouldn't fit in the cabinet,I managed to get it in with 5 mm to spare.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Thanks Duck. 5mm is a squeeze! 

I was thinking I *could* fit it into the stand if I actually took the bottom panel out of the stand..


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

GE9325K CF bulbs arrived today, yippee! 

Make of this comparison what you will!










The 6500/1000s certainly make it look more greener. Much greener! But it's an artificial green in my opinion. And green light makes red things look brown.

The 9325 is more *natural* in that the terracotta-coloured wall behind the top tank is much closer to reality with the 9325 light than the pastey tan/brown which the 6500/10000s makes it appear.

PS. The bottom left image is misleading as I added a fluoro Gro-Lux tube at the front for the photo to stop the red goldfish appearing dull brown, just as the light does to the wall.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

10 day update of 2' tropical tank - front, 45 angle, right and left views respectively:


































Added some hairgrass today to fill in the middle and right a bit. You can see the newly planted tufts are straighter than the more established grass on the left.

I also trimmed the long stemmy leaves off the Lotuses, and removed the Bacopa from the right completely, replacing it with a couple of shoots of Rotala Macranda.

I don't know about the Willow Moss log. Maybe the Ramshorn snails are eating the moss and stunting it a bit.


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## StUk_In_AfRiKa (Jan 30, 2005)

The tank is looking really nice. I can't wait to see how it develops.


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## Urkevitz (Jan 12, 2004)

Your tank looks great, I love the rocks. The GE lights look way better, I ordered some for my tank.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the positive feedback! 

I much prefer the GE lights as well too. They really bring out the red plants too, especially the Rotala Macranda.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

About three weeks now:



















A couple of observations:
1. Those stems they sold me as 'Magenta' in the left corner turned out to be emersed Limnophilia Aromatica. So now it's developed submersed leaves, I have it in both corners! I'll need to trim them to get that nice 'layered' effect.

2. The Rotala Macranda in the middle is nice and red, but the internode lengths are too long and stemmy for my liking. Maybe more light? There's over 5w/g already though...

3. There's a slight film of brown diatoms on the rocks where they are fully exposed to the light. But the snails are munching on it, so I won't scrub it off yet.

4. Not sure about that bush of Baby Tears between the rocks. Maybe have the Rotala Macranda spilling forward between the rocks instead? Or move the Red Lotus there? I don't know...


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Silver Tip Tetras in the morning light.


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## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

What can you say?

Absolutely lovely aquascape! The plants and fish look so healthy. I could stare at an aquarium like that all day. It looks so bright and colorful, and the plants are so well placed.

You have done a wonderful job and should be proud!! roud:

Mike


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Wow, thanks Mike!


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Meanwhile, over in the other tank...

Nothing happening here except a bad case of 'collectivitis'. I think there are 19 different species of plants in here! 









And just a close up of the middle bit









Plants are growing nicely. And since I switched to the 7:1 Barr Ratio last week every spot of algae has disappeared! The poor snails are resorting to scavenging the old algae stumps/scars on the old anubia leaf (just right of middle) and a sword leaf (on the left) as there's no new stuff coming up for a week now. Even the glass is still crystal clear. I haven't touched it since switching to the new ratio, whereas before I was scraping it every three days or so.

I really haven't decided what to do with this tank at the moment. Well, not until I get the new 4x2x2 tank I have on order and work out which plants I want to move into the new tank (see I have pots of hairgrass just sitting there, waiting?).

I've removed the goldfish, so there're no fish at all in this tank now. I've come to the conclusion they simply do not like CO2 levels up at 30ppm and so I've abandoned my plans of doing any CO2 goldfish tanks. They were looking quite dismal and ill. I thought at first it might be all the fertiliser or Excel, but other goldies in another non-CO2 planted tank didn't mind any of that stuff at all and looked quite happy. Well, so now I've moved them, the goldies are back to their happy perky selves!


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Oh! And I've also been practicing photography with my little digital camera!

Here's some newly acquired Milfoil with a bit of pearling. Taken hand-held, no tripod! The lower leaves are emerged ones, while the newer submersed growth is just growing out (I think).


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Great tank! Really healthy and robust - not to mention great color and algae free! I'm particularly impressed with the progress of the lotus. roud: 

But you've got me going on your "1:7 Barr Ratio" comment. What's that?


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## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

Nothing wrong with an aquarium full of collected species! roud: I've had and have my share of those!

Mike


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

awsome tanks! i usually dont like goldfish but the ones you have are awsome... i really hate the bulgey eye's and the big head thing....

also how much was the tiger lotus im really curious... since the one at my lfs is $13 usd

nice tanks and am learning alot from what you have done

fish newb


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

I like both tanks , very healthy and some nice looking plants. The collectivitus even looks nice... roud:


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

If only AGA had a 'collectivitis' category!

Wow, I just looked back on the previous page and saw how it looked last month. I didn't realise how much it's grown, especially the Lotus. The tank's butted up to the front of my desk, so I'm looking at it all day long every day so didn't notice the gradual change!

I did have to remove that Tropica Marble Queen on the right though as it was just getting too huge - 1 foot leaves, just too big! Would be good for a pond though to provide good shade for Koi maybe, but definitely not suitable for a 35g tank!

Thanks for the compliments guys!


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Steve, probably best if you ask Tom directly about it. I'm not sure what the protocol is about revealing info other people subscribe to get. It's probably not fair to Tom and undermines his livelihood if I go spreading around what's in the latest Barr Report for free. Well, at least not within a week of it being published! Maybe wait a few more days until it's old news or someone else discusses it first and I'll just chime in.. 

I'm astonished at how well it seems to be working though, so I'd love to tell you all about it!

Probably just as important though is what PJAN wrote in your own thread about what he/she refers to as 'overpressure' and the macros needing to be in abundance.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Hi Fish Newb, thanks. Great to hear this thread is actually educational! 

I'm actually the opposite and really like the Lionhead and Dragon Eye goldfish better!

The Red Lotus cost about AU $30 I think, but it was a really big healthy specimen when I got it. But it quickly became a little one though once a big goldie shredded all the leaves! It's almost back to its original size now after all this time though, so I can understand why it cost more than other plants.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Four posts in a row for me! This is the 1 month update of the 2' tank. The two red lotuses are growing well here too, faster than the green one at least:



















I've trimmed and replanted the background Aromatica and Macranda, trying to get that layered taller at the back to shorter at the front thing happening. Not sure how well I've managed to do that though! I've also removed the Baby Tears from between the rocks and replaced it with some more Macranda stems. I've also moved the moss log forward a fraction to give the stems behind more space, but I'm not sure how it looks on the rock now.

I think I need stronger light than 5w/g, or better reflectors at least. The Macranda was only growing thick and branching as it neared the surface, which means the light's not strong enough to penetrate deep enough.


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

yah the one at my lfs is a big one too... well i guess its priced alright..... hmm... ill probably get it i love that plant... roud: your tanks are lookn good!


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Thanks again.  I really like them too. Apparently they get pretty big though, so I'll have to see what happens.

The good thing about most plants is they multiply, so you get more plants than you originally pay for. Those two in the foreground of the 24g are offshoots from the original plant. And there's also another small one on the left side of the collectivitis tank (struggling to get out of the shade), plus two more small ones in another tank.

So that's five red lotuses for the price of one in just a few months! And which I don't have the space for!


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## turtlehead (May 31, 2005)

What fixture are you using on that GE9325K CF lighted tank and where did you get the bulb? Nice nice tank by the way, I love the pink.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Thanks Turtlehead. Both tanks actually have 9325s. The fixturs are this style made by Aqualina, mounted on optional transparent plastic legs. They're not as green as it looks in the pic (bad pic), more a powdered silver. 

That pic actually shows a single-row 48' fixture, which I don't have. The one I have is a double-row 24' fixture which has the two 55w tubes side by side instead, with a single flat reflector - the 'bad' type AH Supplies use as an example! 

And the other 36' fixture was originally a double-row of 36watt tubes (total 144w), but I changed it to only one 55w in each row (total 110w) instead of two 36w's in each row, so I could get the 9325K light on the tank. If only they made 9325 tubes in 36w! 

I ordered the tubes from lightbulbsdirect.com.


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## Georgiadawgger (Apr 23, 2004)

Daaaaaaaaamn! Really nice. I really like the way you're providing contrast with the tiger lotus...the leaf shape and the color really stands out against the hairgrass! Well done!! roud:


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## donaldbyrd (Jun 8, 2005)

tanks look great I really love the color contrast with the tiger lilly


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## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

I have got to say, I am amazed at what you have done with the lotus. I have a couple of them in a grow out, and I just can't get close to that color red! I really don't know how you do it. I also am in awe of the way you worked it into the aquascape. I love the lotus plants, but could never imagine them in an aquascape. Just magnificent! roud: 

Those comments go for almost all the members of PT who are growing lotus. I have clicked through the photo album a few times and just can't believe the beautiful lotus plants everyone is growing! 

Hats off to you all! roud: 

Mike


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## donaldbyrd (Jun 8, 2005)

I know the lights are adding some to the red , are you dosing iron ?


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Thanks guys!  Donald, I think the 9325s actually show them in more natural colour, so rather than adding to the red it's just the way they're supposed to look, as opposed to the 6500/10000s washing out the red. 

But I think maybe the Red Lotus is going to outgrow this tank sooner rather than later! 

Here's an update taken on Sept 2, (about two after the last pics):










And a week later, today:










See what I mean about the Lotus? Those leaves have grown that much larger in just 7 days. I think it must have reached that critical establishing point, and now it's just taking off rapidly.

Mind you, I decided to take the light fixture off it's legs and drop it down to sit on the top of the tank (a difference of about 3 inches), so maybe it's just because there's a little bit more light getting to it now.

I'm not sure how successful my trimming/replanting attempt has been as I'm not quite achieving that 'round bush' effect with the stems. Some just seem to grow better than others. The stems on the outside edges not as red or rampant as those closer to the light. Maybe lowering the light means there's less spread now. I guess I'm learning as I go. Maybe I'll just get some AH reflectors as the flat refelctors on this fixture are pretty average.

Also, I had some drama with the fish after stirring up the tank after the replanting. First, one my two panda corys got stuck behind the heater and died.  So I went and bought two to keep the remaining one company. But they didn't look in the best of shape when I added them (their dorsal fins seemed a bit ragged and they were pale).

So maybe they introduced something, or maybe it was from me stirring up all the muck and mulm, but some infection spread through all the Silver Tips. Lumps at the base of the tail and swollen white mouths. I isolated four I saw with these symptoms to a hospital tank, but then others came down with it anyway. The Danios and Corys seemed unaffected by whatever it was. 

So I treated both tanks with TriSulfa antibiotics and switched the UV on which seemed to fix them all up quickly back to normal after a few days, but I lost one of the four fish in the hospital tank today. Not from the disease because he seemed to be recovering well, but maybe from an ammonia spike. Which was a shame as he seemed to be getting better. I put the remaining three back in the main tank. The two females look perfectly healthy, but the male still seems to have slight lumps on his tail, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed I didn't just reintroduce the disease again!

So my stock losses since beginning this whole planted lark is 1 Silver Tip (from 16, leaving 15), 2 Danio suicides from leaving the glass top off (from 12, leaving just 10 now) and 1 Panda Cory accident (leaving 1, but now 3). I guess 4 losses out of 30 is okay over the three months since began, but they were all avoidable if I had just taken better care.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Speaking of the fish, they're all getting bigger and three of the male Danios have developed beautiful long fins!  The rest are all short-finned, but I still like them just as much. .

But they move too quick too take a decent pic as you can see here!










This is the Rotala Macranda. Since lowering the light down, it seems to have changed growth pattern. The leaves are very small now and it's branching everywhere. Nothing like it was before with big red leaves and single stems!

Or maybe it was the medicines somehow affected it. I don't know!

Another thing is the ramshorn snail population seems to have reduced greatly as well. Maybe due to the medicines, but probably more likely since I switched to the 1:7 Barr Ratio, there's no algae for them to eat and they starved to death.

But it's not completely algae-free. Over the last two weeks a different type of algae has developed - long thread/hair algae growing on the moss now. The CO2 levels are about 40ppm, so maybe that explains the Rotala and the hair algae. I'll try lowering it back to 30 after the next water change.

PS. Scolley, the 1:7 ratio is PO4:NO3. But the PO4 needs to be at least 2ppm or higher, so technically it should be a 2:14 ratio. Or 3:21. Or 4:28 etc.


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

*7:1 ratio*



awrieger said:


> Steve, probably best if you ask Tom directly about it. I'm not sure what the protocol is about revealing info other people subscribe to get. It's probably not fair to Tom and undermines his livelihood if I go spreading around what's in the latest Barr Report for free. Well, at least not within a week of it being published!


Thanks. I can appreciate that. I AM a subscriber, but I haven't been a regular reader. I suppose I'll have to change that. I got too bored with dredging through the scientific content, looking for meaningful conlusions/actionable information for the novice.  I'll have to start dredging again.


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## donaldbyrd (Jun 8, 2005)

great to know i have the 9325's also so hopefully i will get the same results once I get a lotus in there.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

This is how it looked on September 17, 2005 at it's fullest extent of growth before I did a huge trim:










I started a thread for this tank over at APC to enter it into the beginner's category of their aquascaping contest. After seeing some of the professional looking entries I'm too scared to enter the proper competition! I don't know what the point of the beginner's category is supposed to be though as there's no prize or ranking and it doesn't seem to be any different to just posting a normal thread like I'm doing here.

Anyway, so what I'm doing is cross-posting my posts about this tank over there for the duration of the competition in case any of you visit both forums and see the same thing twice!


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Time for a one month later update!

This is today after a second identical trim two weeks ago. What I've done is split the stems into two distinct groups now, so the Rotala is now on the left behind the Willow Moss log, and the Aromatica is on the right. I've also reduced the number of Aromatica stems from the original number as they are just growing nice and wide, so I don't need as many stems to take up the space.

I've also completely removed the big Red Lotus and transferred it to a pot in my new tank (which is waiting for me to aquascape it). It actually had three smaller runners growing, so now I've got more Red Lotuses than I know what to do with!

So what's left there now are the other Red Lotus (with a few runners as well) and the Green Lotus. These ones never took off as well as the other one for some strange reason.




























I haven't yet managed the 'Dutch' trick of making the stems all grow in a nice bushy formation. They all seem to grow at different rates, so it's uneven!

A view from the right, and two from the left. The water's still a bit cloudy from adding some Geo-Liquid. It should be crystal clear by tomorrow.




























I've been having a problem the past few weeks with long thin thread/hair algae growing out of the Willow Moss, and it's now starting to infltrate the Hairgrass. I think it's due to my being a bit lax with the daily ferts, missing a few days here and there. I took the Moss log out and ran it under a strong tap and washed most of it away, and did what I could to remove it from the Hairgrass by hand, so hopefully if I keep up with the ferts diligently it will go away *fingers crossed*

[cross-posted at APC ]


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Meanwhile, over on the opposite side of the room...

I've moved this tank against the wall to make way for the new 110 gal tank to go in front of my desk. I still don't know what to do with this tank so it's still a jungle. I did a bit of re-arranging though, even though the Hairgrass is still in the original pots I bought them in! I also removed and threw away the two huge Red Rubin swords because they were just too big and tall for this tank. What a waste!

I think I'm going to transfer the Red Lotus to the 110 gal to partner the other one I removed from my 2' tank. Maybe also all the larger plants too and just have this one as an open hairgrass and rockscape sort of thing. Which will look completely different to what it does now!










A close up of a new Red Lotus leaf sprouting:










Oh! And yesterday I finally decided to get some fish for this tank!

Here are two of the four new Sterba Corys being acclimatized:










And thirty two of these Rummy Nosed Tetras. Sounds like a lot of fish, but I can't even see any of them most of the time for all the plants!

I need to rescape this tank to create more open areas as the only real open space for these fish at the moment is between the Lotus sems.










And a Balloon Kissing Gourami. This was a total impulse purchase, and a pretty stupid one too. Stupid. Stupid. But I just couldn't resist the cute little pink fellow. He's tiny! Same as when I could resist that tiny little pink Albino Oscar the same size as this gourami three years ago.. which is now an over a foot-long monster I'm stuck with feeding and housing!

So I'm going to take little Kissy back asap as he'll eventually grow huge and destroy all the plants and eat the other fish which are currently the same size him, but will sooner or later look like little snacks as he grows bigger!


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## AussieTanker (Dec 13, 2003)

Hi awrieger ...

Thats a great setup ..... you have really done so well with this tank as a first effort ...... i also found the post very helpful ... lots of useful info ... i will have a read of it again tommorrow when i'm not so tired ....

i also have the jbl CO2 setup from strictly aquariums ... i have the jbl gas bottle and solenoid and the dk grey spiral reactor thing ..... 

when i bought the unit they were quite adamant that i could just bring the empty CO2 bottle in to get it refilled .....THEY MADE IT SOUND SO EASY ... naturally i was *VERY* unhappy to find out 8 months later that it was *not* possible to refill the bottle as they described .... they said to use the supergas system ie go hire a bottle! .... but if i had known that in the first place i would not have paid about $900 ( i think thats what it was from memory .... it's a long time ago know) for the jbl gas bottle and solenoid ... and now i find out from this post that the jbl regulator will not fit other standard tanks ....( was also told that it would ... cause i enqured about getting a bigger bottle) ... now i am really [email protected]@@d! 

i made dozens of calls to fish shops here in sydney ... including (i thought) St Georges ... and couldn't find anyone to give me a refill .... so can you pls confirm that you did in fact get yours refilled by them ... and are they still doing it now? .... do you have a contact ... the lad that i spoke to sounded very young and inexperienced ... i guess i should have pushed it a bit more!

anyway ...i guess thats all down to experience now!

just a few questions if i can ......

1. are you happy with the dk grey reactor thingy that the CO2 feeds into in the tank ... how much did you extend it by, where did you get the extension from and how much did the extension cost ....

2. i an really keen to get a ph controller .... can you post some pics on what all the bits (of the CO2 system) are and how all the bits fit together ... and how much did you pay for your pH unit ( i already have the jbl bottle, regulator and solenoid ... will it fit onto those?) again ... where did you end up getting it .... do you use a bubble counter?

3. eco complete .... i want some!!!!!! ... i tried and tried to get some ... i didn't realize that it was available here in australia ... i have tried MANY lfs here in sydney over the last 2 years and none seem to have it ... can you pls pls, pls, give a link or a contact on this .... please!


4.can you give more details of what you are dosing and where you source your suppliy from ... if i read it correct you only add one off the shelf product?

5. the tom barr ratio thing you mentioned ... it sounded like you subscribe to something ... is it helpful? .... can you pls give more details on that pls.. 

wow .... so many questions .... sorry about all the questions .... i was very dissappointed with my tank .... as i spent a LOT of money on my tank and system at strictly aquariums ... only to run out of CO2 and find it all fall apart when i couldn't get the jbl bottle refilled as they had initially said i could ... i have only just started to think about getting back into planted tanks again after about 18 months of being very peeved and disappointed ... so found this post very helpful.. thank you 

you seem to have solved many of the problems that i faced so i would really appreciate some guidance if you can find the time 

thanks heaps ... keep up the great work .... and keep those great tanks looking good!


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

hey those cories are really nice i need to find some nice ones lol.... i also love the red lotus im gonna need to find a nice big one for my 55g when i finally get it going,......


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Hi AussieTanker, great to know this thread has been helpful to you and thanks for the compliment.

I could write paragraphs at how annoyed I am about all the time and money they made me waste too, but I won't! Think happy thoughts..  I guess it's all trial and error, so this forum is great to learn from others' trials and errors! I dread counting up how much aqaurium equipment and gimmicky things I've replaced or discarded over the last year!

Just walk into St George with your JBL bottle and they'll tell you to stick in the freezer along with the frozen bloodworms etc for 10 minutes (makes for a fuller refill when it's cold) while you have a look around. Then they just fill it from their larger 22kg CO2 cylinder. $8 I think.

But St George is difficult to get to (and hard to get parking nearby on that road) so it could be days before I can get there if I run out of CO2 which throws the whole tank system out of whack, so I've switched totally to gas rentals (they deliver to your door next day!) so my JBL bottle and regulator are now sitting idle as 'spares'. Supagas is who I rent from. The 10kg bottle which is the smaller of the two sizes they have (and still doesn't fit inside a standard aquarium stand cabinet). It lasts months and months even with lots of surface agitation, so long that Supagas rang me the other day seeing if I needed refill and I said, nope, I'm still using the ones I already have!

Wow, so many questions is right! So many questions deserve so many answers so I'll try as best I can.

1. The JBL diffuser does the job well. So well that I gave away thoughts about getting an inline reactor. Just don't need one really. I checked out a few others like Tunze, Dupla, etc, but came back to the JBL one when it came time to get another diffuser. The extender is half as long again so you extend it by 50%, which is all you need as the bubbles are virtually so tiny they're completely gone by the time they get to the top instead of bubbling up and out to the surface without the extender. Available from Strictly Aquariums or anywhere else like Petfood Plus Warehouse that sells JBL stuff (you have to order it if they don't have one in stock) for $16.50.


2. Apart from the fact the JBL regulator doesn't fit on commercial bottles, the JBL pH controller is good, but the Tunze does the job just as well and is a lot easier to use and calibrate etc (the JBL is like trying to program a video recorder, I need to get the instruction book out each time), and the Tunze all-glass probes look much classier in the tank than the solid black with big white JBL logo probe. I got my Tunze from aquaria.com.au over in Perth. There is also a Dupla controller for the same price as the Tunze but I don't know anything about it. But I have just set up a Dupla substrate tank heating system and if the Dupla pH controller is the same as their temp controller, it should be just as good and easy to use as the Tunze one.

The pic on the link I gave for the Tunze controller shows it has a separate solenoid box which the pH controller plugs into to switch the gas on and off, whereas the JBL solenoid connects straight to the regulator. It's much of a muchness which you prefer as they both do the same thing, just an extra piece of tubing in the chain with the Tunze.


3. EcoComplete courtesy of fellow member on this forum, Duck, over in Perth who imports it commercially. Send him a message on here or visit his Aquatic Rocks company website to get a quote for how much you want/need. Payment via bank transfer, and he'll ship it via land transport due to the weight and transportation costs so it will take about 5 days to get it here.


4. Three off-the-shelf products now. The first is JBL again! I use JBL Ferropol plant food. More expensive, but it doesn't contain any nitrates or phosphates so I can control those better individually per tank.

The second and third are both Seachem. Flourish Excel and Flourish Iron. Both available from aquaria.com.au again if you can't find them in your local shop.

Potassium Sulphate just from my local nursery or Bunning's hardware store. 500 gram agricultural-grade pack will last ages. You can also get chelated iron powder as well, but I find Flourish Iron so much simpler and less messy to dose it's worth paying extra for instead. Magnesium Sulfate you can get from the nursery too, or just from any chemist or Coles as Epsom Salt.

Phosphates are via 'Aquamaster pH Down'. Just a standard pH adjuster which is made from Sodium Phosphate. Don't worry about it adjusting your pH as you only need a tiny pinch each time (I use the tiny green spoon that came with a JBL phosphate test kit which is 1/24 teaspoon as even the smallest 1/4 teaspoon size in a standard measuring spoon set is way too much).

Potassium Nitrate is the hardest of all to acquire. I ended up buying some AR grade (the finest) online from Fronine Laboratory Supplies here in Sydney. I just got AR grade instead of the $4 cheaper and lower grade LR grade. Again 500 grams will last ages. 

After testing the water, I just generally aim to get nitrates at either 14 or 21ppm and then phosphates at a ratio of 1:7 of that, so either 2 or 3ppm. I use Aquatic Plant Central's Fertilator to calculate how much I need to add of all the powdered stuff (which I mix together into a jar of tank water before adding). I try to aim for 10-20 of K and 2-5 of Mg. The rest I just follow the instructions on the bottles, eg to get 0.2ppm iron.


5. The Barr Report is a US$12 subscription monthly newsletter from Tom Barr who goes by the modest handle of 'Plantbrain' on this and other forums. It's a fairly seriously scientific read, but I've picked up a few useful tips which I've employed that have made it well worth the money, especially the Barr Ratio and never having to scrape algae off the glass since.

Whew! I hope those answers help!


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Hi Newb. They are nice aren't they? I'm really pleased I got them.

No need to find a big Lotus - just get a small one and feed it and it'll outgrow your 55g in no time! I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion these are pond or lake plants. I definitely think you need at least 2' depth (and lots of big healthy leaf plucking) and you'd still be struggling to keep one of these from constantly reaching the surface and smothering out all the light to the plants below.

The Lotus from my little 2' tank which I transferred into a pot temporarily in my new 4'x2'x2' just sent a huge flower stalk up above the surface. Unfortunately I had to cut it off before if blossomed as I just decided to start aquascaping the 4x2x2 so had to move it into a smaller holding tank. What a shame as they're such awesome flowers like a water lily.


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## intermision (Nov 7, 2005)

You're tanks are awesome the more I look at them he more I want to finish planting my aquarium.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Thanks Intermision. You should go ahead and finish your tank!


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Warning, AussieTanker! 

Disregard my previous advice and comments about Tunze and Dupla CO2 equipment. It seems you now have another option available. At a LOT cheaper price! I just discovered in this new thread (which you might have seen already) that Milwaukee regulators and controllers are available here now. 

So well worth checking out Milwaukee first before the others. I wish I'd known 6 months ago, so too late for me now.


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## AussieTanker (Dec 13, 2003)

Hi awrieger ... 

again, thanks for the VERY helpful reply and the heads up re the milwaukee regulator + pH units ...some further comments since reading this thread again several times ...

1. Man, .... your tanks look great .... esp for a first attempt .... as that aussie jingle goes ... ' u ort-ta be congratulated!" .... roud: 

i am absolutely green with envy cause mine looked nothing like that, even after hours of fiddling ... :biggrin: .... still ... i guess that leaves me plenty room for improvement! ... in fact ... this thread and another from scolley has inspired me to dust off all my gear and give this planted tank thinggie another go ... so i will keep you posted  

2. if i get this right from reading your post again, you actually put about 7 different items in your tank when you do your ferts ... can you pls confirm that this is this correct ... this is how i understood it ....
i) JBL Ferropol Plant Food
ii) Seachem Flourish Excel
iii) Seachem Flourish Iron
iv) Potassium Sulphate
v) Magnesium Sulphate
vi) Phosphate via Aquamaster pH down
vii)Potassium Nitrate

man, thats a lotta stuff .... how do you log or keep track of it all ... and if you don't mind and if it's not too much trouble could you pls list how you schedule this ie ... are some added daily .. some weekly etc ... is it best done before lights on or after the lights go out ... better in am or pm ...etc ...ALSO ... i take it that you are NOT using the Aquamaster Plant Food now?

3. is there any chance of getting some pics of how the regulator, bubble counter, solenoid and pH unit all connect up .... i am also especially interested in seeing how the power points work .... 

i pulled my jbl solenoid out of storage a few days ago only to find that the transformer - power point bit that plugs into the power point on the wall was a strange looking double pronged thing, definately not the same prongs that we use on our regular power points or transformers ... i guessed that it was a german fitting .... i must have used some type of converter connection , which naturally i couldn't find ... i also discovered that the plastic housing on the transformer was cracked ... i ended up buying a similiar rated aussie transformer (cost $18 from jaycar) and then paying an electrician $55 to put it onto the jbl solenoid ... an expensive modification .. but still ... at least it now works!

anyways ... thanks for all the tips ... hopefully we can help one another to source better gear at better priices than currently available off the shelf


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## AussieTanker (Dec 13, 2003)

Off Topic question.. 

Have any of the aussies on the forum purchased the milwaukee units (regulator, solenoid and pH controller) from the supplier linked back a few posts ago... and which combo did you get?

.... can anyone confirm if they are in fact available for delivery ... 

also ... the website seems to indicate that they do not come with a power point ... or am i just reading it incorrectly? .... if that is the case ... where/how does one attach a aussie power point to it 

tia


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## AussieTanker (Dec 13, 2003)

Another slightly off topic post ...

i know that there are quite a few aussie planted tank enthusiasts that are watching this thread with great interest ... there seem to be a reasonable number from sydney region ...

perhaps if there are enough of us interested we could get together somewhere central in the new year (2006) for a barbie, and to swap a few tips ... hints ... plant cuttings etc ... maybe get a guest speaker to run a little "how to do it " demo thinggie ... please pm me if interested with any thoughts and ideas ... 

if there already is a planted tank group that meets regullar i am unaware of it ... if so ... could you please also pm me with details ... 

just a thought ...


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## khemo (Nov 9, 2005)

Hi all

that site that sells the milwaukee regulator has been selling them for almost two years atleast, since i first saw that site selling them about 1.5 years ago, when i wasn't interested in a pressurised system and still doing DIY CO2.

Their shop is located in Southport which is about 30 min from me. I'm thinking of giving them a ring soon, so if anyone wants me to ask a question for them, then just say so via pm.

Cheers


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## khemo (Nov 9, 2005)

wow....alot of useful info. on this thread, especially the fertilizer information as it's more relevant to us aussies.....good job awrieger.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Glad to have inspired you AussieTanker!  



AussieTanker said:


> 2. if i get this right from reading your post again, you actually put about 7 different items in your tank when you do your ferts ... can you pls confirm that this is this correct ... this is how i understood it ....
> i) JBL Ferropol Plant Food
> ii) Seachem Flourish Excel
> iii) Seachem Flourish Iron
> ...


I've actually stopped using the Aquamaster plant food because it's got nitrate in it so it was too hard to achieve the 7:1 ratio between nitrate and phosphate.

I've recently switched to an 8 day cycle instead of weekly, so I can split the dosing evenly into 2 (ie every 4 days), and I keep track on a calendar I drew up. I dose Excel and Ferropol plant food daily (when I'm not too lazy!) as per the instructions as early after lights-on as possible. I add all the other ferts on that list every 4th day, and do a 50% every 8th day (so I dose all the ferts after the water change).



AussieTanker said:


> 3. is there any chance of getting some pics of how the regulator, bubble counter, solenoid and pH unit all connect up .... i am also especially interested in seeing how the power points work ....


I posted a pic of the Tunze set up earlier in this thread which is probably as clear as I can get it, but I'll try explaining what you can see in that pic here:










The silver prong thing sticking out the left side of the dual gauge regulator is the needle valve. Plugged into this can be either the solenoid directly, or in this case tubing which leads to the separate solenoid (the black square box just behind the top gauge). This separate solenoid is plugged into the powerpoint to power it on or off, so when the controller (on the left) is plugged into it, it draws power too. The controller only plugs into the solenoid, not a powerpoint. The only other wire coming from the controller leads to the probe in the tank. Apart from that, the only other connection is the tubing that exits the solenoid and into the tank/diffuser (which is that kinked black tube leading up the wall). Pretty simple!


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Okay, time for an update. And a change! 

So I've had this new 4x2x2 tank sitting in front of my desk for two months now just full of plants in plastic pots. Deciding what to do. Whether to make it a planted scape or a goldie tank. I've decided it's too deep for fancy goldfish (maybe it isn't but I'm not going to chance it), so an aquascape it is then!

But! That would mean I would have 3 planted tanks then. Which is 1 too many. So what I have decided to do is shift my albino oscar out of his roomy 4' tank and into the 3' tank which currently holds my collectivitis jungle. And then combine that 3' panted and the 2' planted together into his old 4' tank. I had a long think about doing this, but he/she basically just sits in the front corner of the tank all day anyway (bored crapless I'm sure all by itself) just waiting for food and I keep thinking that if it's not going to use that space, I can. So hopefully it won't miss that extra foot of space seeing as it never uses it much anyway. I keep its water pretty good so its conditions should be healthy, if not spacious.

So, heavy guilt out of the way (3 months to come to this decision!), it's time for a lot of work and tank juggling!

DAY 1:
First step was to remove all the potted plants residing in the 4x2x2 onto the floor. Not on the floor, but in my back up 3' tank on the floor of course! A tight squeeze.










Next step was to clean out the 4x2x2 and install the Dupla Therm substrate heating cables (and Dupla-T Delta thermo controller).


















As you can see, this tank butts right up against the front of my desk, so the stand faces away from the desk which means the side of the tank facing me is technically the 'back'.

Anyhoo, time to add the Seachem Onyx Sand substrate now. Very expensive stuff! And it comes 'pre-washed' according to the pack. But it says to 'rinse' it anyway to remove residual dust. So okay, here's a third of a pack ready to be rinsed..










Rinse it?!? This is how it looks after adding water! Like cement!










Well, after TWELVE rinses, I finally got it so the water doesn't cloud. This is going to take longer than I thought to 'rinse' 8 packs...










So by about midnight I finally managed to get enough into the tank to try out some rock arranging. 'Rinse' the rest tomorrow! These rocks were the best the lfs had. Water-eroded exposed ones on the left and a sharded one on the right (like it fell off a cliff above). After a few hours of different combinations, I settled on this as the best..


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

DAY 2

All the next day, finish off rinsing and adding the Onyx Sand. This is as much as I could afford unfortunately, so I wish I could have made it deeper. Oh well, it's only going to have a hairgrass lawn and no super-deep rooting plants so it should be okay I hope. And then the final rock arranging toget it 'just right'.










It looks pretty symmetrical from above but from my view sitting at my desk it looks okay I think. Like an exposed formation worn by water erosion.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

DAY 3

Add the water! And the plants! If you recall my collectivitis tank, there were about 9 punnets of hairgrass sitting there for months waiting to be planted out, so now's the time. In this pic 5 down, 4 to go.. this is back-breaking hours of work splitting them into individual plants and planting out with a pair of tweezers!










Finally all done. The far left back corner is still empty as I ran out of grass, but not to worry as I have plenty more - you'll see . The CO2 is just connected so the the controller there on my desk is reading 7.67 (KH is approx 7 so when it gets down to 6.8 the CO2 level should be about 30ppm).










A close up of my new indoor lawn!


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

DAY 4

But what about fish I hear you ask! Okay, this is the hard part... see that tank against the far wall? That's my collectivitis tank. The fish are in there and I have to get them out of there first before they can go into this tank.. which means I have to take all the plants out first..










So all the plants removed from my collectivitis tank and the fish sitting in a bucket on top of this tank getting acclimated.. what a struggle catching them all! Apart from a losing a sickly hollow-bellied Rummy Tetra not long after purchasing 32 of them, I count that I still have a full compliment of 31 rummy-nose tetras and 4 sterba cories. (The two kuhli loaches are going into the other tank).










Late at night, all done. Rummys and Sterbas in their new home.










And the sun sets on 4 long days..


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

So my attention now turns to the 4' tank..

Here's the simple plan - I'm going to take the 2' tank exactly as it is and extend it to the left, like so!










So here goes.. I'll keep the days in sequence..

DAY 5

A day of rest.

DAY 6

I won't go into the pre-setup stuff, just suffice it to say it's identical to my 2' tank including Ecocomplete etc. 

Okay, so I've got Mordor on the left and Bag End on the right...










Add a rock with green hair..










Add some water. Aquatic plants need water!


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

DAY 7

Transfer the Aromatic and Rotala stems over from the 2' tank. And from the 3' collectivitis tank, some swords, anubias and hygro corymbosa. Except for some vals, the rest of the plants from the colectivitis tank as well as all the potted plants from the 4x2x2 will all go into pots in my goldie tanks. Keep this one simple I think.










With the stem and rocks now gone from the 2' tank, all that's left is the grass. Heckle here thinks she's safe in there. Ha ha! Little does she know it's all coming out too and for the second time in less than a week she will be at the mercy of my net!










An interesting side-story about when I first got these two Khulis. Jekyll disappeared the very first day. I looked everywhere to no avail. So I assumed he jumped and my dog ate him. Two weeks later I'm cleaning the canister filter and when I get to the bottom tray, there he is splashing about! So back in the tank again. Gone again by that afternoon. Open the filter up again and there he is again! So now I've got a mesh around the filter intake until he grows a bit bigger!


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

DAY 8

CO2 and everything all connected and running, so add the fishies! It's starting to look a little more respectable now.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

DAY 9

Another day of rest. Both tanks so far. 



















Although there seems to be a bit of tannin in the water from the wood in the 4' tank (which the charcoal should clear up eventually), everything seems to be in order and working, so I can relax a bit before the laborious process of adding all the hairgrass to both tanks. 

All the grass from the 2' tank is sitting in a bucket at the moment and at a rough guesstimate it's about the equivalent of 20-30 punnets. It took more than a day to plant out just 9 punnets, so it will take at least a day, maybe two, to plant it all out! I just need to psyche myself up before I tackle this back breaking and finger pruning job.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

DAY 10

Now with a nice new lawn! So all done, and just let it grow now. This hairgrass planting density is about how much the 2' tank had at first and it got pretty full and lush within a month or so, so see how this one goes. 










There's plenty still left over to get the same sort of density in the other tank now.

_(Edit: I had to edit the last three posts because I counted my rest day twice! The day sequence is correct now.)_


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Oh, forgot to mention the lighting.

The 4x2x2 has a 4 x 54w T5 Arcadia fixture with Sylvania T5 Gro-Lux tubes (new!!).

The 4' tank has a 4 x 55w compact fluoro fixture with GE 9325K tubes.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

DAY 11 

No pics today. Still planting out all the hairgrass into the 4x2x2. Luckily (or unluckily) it's not as much as I thought it was so I should be finished by tomorrow. And then I shall punish you and your bandwidth with more pics! 

So that'll be 12 days to set up these two tanks. Whew! And they're not even complicated or contest-quality scapes. I had originally planned to get them both done in less than 4 days...


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## StUk_In_AfRiKa (Jan 30, 2005)

Once the smaller tank grows in I think it should look fantastic. I really love the rocks and the way you have them set up. I'll be following both of the tanks


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Thanks StUk.  Once it does grow in, the lower/smaller rocks will be submerged into the hairgrass lawn so only the tops should be visible. I'm not entirely sure how that's going to look!

PS. The pictures may be a little deceptive. The smaller tank you mention is actually twice as big as the other one in terms of volume. Both are 4' long, but the desk tank is 2' high as well as 2' front to back so it's over 100 gallons, while the other one is a standard 50 gallons. The 4x2x2 is like having a big wall of water in front of me while I'm sitting at my desk - which is pretty cool I think. It also means the hairgrass lawn size is approximately 8 square feet!


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## Georgiadawgger (Apr 23, 2004)

Nice job...things should fill out given some time...do you like the moss log in the middle like that? I might suggest moving it to an angle on the right side the complement the stems that will grow "over" it...sort of like you had it in the smaller tank. And that khuli looks like a moray that I saw when I was diving in the keys a few years back!! Nice shot!


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## [RK] (Aug 11, 2005)

Hey, what hairgrass are you using? And did you get your eco complete from Punie in Perth?


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

[RK] said:


> Hey, what hairgrass are you using? And did you get your eco complete from Punie in Perth?


Just normal everyday Dwarf Hairgrass. I'm not familiar with the name Punie, but yes from Perth. From Duck (another member on this forum).


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Thanks Dawgger. 

That's a good idea. I'll try it when it's time to do the first stem plant trim and replanting. To be honest though, I'm not totally enamoured about that moss log anyway. It was just something I thought I'd try, but now it's just a big shapeless cylindrical blob of fuzz. It's also impreganted with thread algae which eventually contaminated the hairgrass (if you look at that pic of the loach, on the left you can see a patch of this thread algae).

I was thinking about actually pulling it apart and putting it on some more interesting piece of driftwood. Or even try some topiary!


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

DAY 12

Finished! Looking at this pic though, it's hard to tell there's about 60% more grass there now than in the previous pic. Still a lot of visible substrate so doesn't look that much different after all that effort!


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## Georgiadawgger (Apr 23, 2004)

Looks good too...another "wait and see" project!!  Have you thought of a red plant to put in there for a splash of color? Maybe some tiger lotus surrounding the rocks on the left?


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## StUk_In_AfRiKa (Jan 30, 2005)

Both are 4' tanks? Hmm I wonder why I was thinking that the "smaller" one was a 2'. 100 gallons haha that is a lot bigger than I thought it was.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

StUk, I think it's probably just due to the dimensions of the 4x2x2 being similar to a smaller tank. More squarish as opposed to the longish you expect from a bigger tank.

What I'll do is refer to them by volume from now on to avoid any confusion. 105 gallons and 48 gallons (and the previous 2' tank scape was 24 gallons).


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Indeed I did Dawgger! It was actually my original plan to put that red lotus (which I pulled from the 24 gallon) exactly where the amazon sword is now. Do the same thing as in the smaller tank, ie a lotus growing out of a hairgrass lawn sort of thing.

But I had it in a plastic pot in the 105 gallon tank for a few weeks while I was deciding what to do and the darned thing just kept growing. I didn't disrupt it's root system when I pulled and repotted it, so it just continued growing it's huge leaves up to the surface. 2' high. As well as growing sideways too. And it sent up a big flower stalk as well (which I mentioned I had to cut off before it flowered). Just too big, even for a 100 gallon tank!

I wanted to have a feature plant amongst all the grass, but also keep a lot of open water so I decided instead on the Amazon. Which should grow a lot bigger, but nowhere near the size of the lotus. So what I'm thinking about to balance it out is actually moving the Kleiner Bar (freshly planted in the 48 tank) over and put it between the two shard rocks on the right instead of the spiral vals there now. It's lost all its red while cramped under the shade of a lotus in the collectivits tank, but out in the open by itself it should go a nice rich deep red.


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## jho51e (Jan 20, 2005)

AussieTanker said:


> Another slightly off topic post ...
> 
> i know that there are quite a few aussie planted tank enthusiasts that are watching this thread with great interest ... there seem to be a reasonable number from sydney region ...
> 
> ...


HI AussieTanker. 

I would like to invite you to register at http://aquascapes.bryght.net/. It is a community for planted tank enthusiasts here in Australia. It is pretty new and hoping to get more people in. It is a little different from this forum as it has the ability for each registrant to have their own blog, add images, co-author a book with the rest of the members, organise an event through the calendar as well as a forum.

So why not check it out and I hope you register as well.


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Wow, what a fun thread. I love 2' deep tanks. I wish I had originally popped for a 120 gallon. And I really loved that Budda tank way back. And I thought the potted plants were quite a fresh look too. I'm coming to the conclusion that Red Tiger Lotus from Africa are too big of species unless one has a gigantic tank. Sort of like Aponos and some Swords which just get too big! 

This is my first time to read this journal. Its a wonderful, fun read!! Gives me a new respect for Goldfish nuts. They are beautiful planted tanks. I dig the hardscape. roud: bob


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## Goldfishcrazy11 (Nov 20, 2005)

I know that this is soooooo far back, but I must say that your goldfish were overcrowded :icon_frow. I know mine are, but that will soon be fixed when I get my big tank.

Fancy goldfish can grow to 8 inches, and should have a minimum of 20 gallons each.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Thanks very much, Bob! My apologies for not replying sooner. Glad you've enjoyed reading it as much as I enjoyed writing it.  I have to agree about the plants too - I'm going to swear off *any* plants that reach the surface!


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

I couldn't agree more Goldfishcrazy. The only way you can keep a well-fed medium to large goldfish in anything less than 30 gallons per fish is through dilligent weekly filter cleaning and 50%+ water changes. Don't put the job off for even a single day!

Unfortunately when they poisoned my water supply with excess chloramines without giving me notice, it turned out that my dilligent water changes killed them.

My big red oscar survived because I wasn't so dilligent with changing his water. If only I'd been lazier with my goldfish too, I might have worked out what the problem was before it was too late.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Time for a 6 week (approx) update:

CALAMITY! 

The dreaded green water..










I got lazy with the ferts dosing. Let this be a lesson to all! 

Also, as I mentioned in the above post, I have sustained high levels of chloramines in my tapwater now which means lots of neutralized ammonia after dechhlorinating, and this pic was about three days after a 50% water change, so it probably compunded my laziness.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Not to worry though. Just whack a UV on it and a day and a half later, voila:










Of course, I could have done the proper thing about balancing nutrients and all that, but hey, what's technology for if you don't use it? 

Anyhoo, I seem to have a nice lawn settling in there now. I might add a 'don't walk on the grass' sign. It's still sparse enough at the moment for the corys to burrow through it, but eventually it should be so thick they'll just have to sit on top of it. Interestingly, the Rummies browse it for food particles like sheep or cows.

I totally removed the giant vals on the left and the smaller Italian spiral vals on the right as they were both going bezerk, spreading runners everywhere through the grass and taking over. The val was so thick it was blocking out the light to the rear left of the tank where it was shadowing the grass which pretty much died off, so it's virtually bare of grass behind the Amazon at the moment. Now it's gone, the grass should return there hopefully.

My new favourite plant of all time is the Hygrophilia Corymbosa there. They're brilliant! They're basically stem plants like normal Hygro but are thicker, shorter and more compact. Almost like a bush with branches and stuff. I really haven't found another plant like them. Oh, and I've also added another Amazon Sword, but it's too small to see yet as it's behind the main rock just to the right of the other sword there.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

So I'm quite pleased with the 100 gallon progress so far, but this other 50g tank I'm not so happy with so I'm going to rescape it.










There's some more Hygrophilia Corymbosa there on the right. Look how well and green and compact/bushy it grows! I can split branches off it as cuttings and plant more of it around.

I've already removed all the wood including the moss covered log which was infested with thread algae weeks ago, and as you can see with the out of control Aromatica on the right, I've been a bit lazy with tending to this tank too.

So a solution to my laziness? I'm going to remove all the stem plants from this scape, as well as all the Val on the left which is growing rampant here too. No constant trimming and replanting! As nice as the stem plants are, it'll only be slow growing plants from now on, I think, like in the 100g tank. Nothing that reaches the surface! 

PS. Both Tunze solenoids on both tanks failed on the same day, so now I'm just running on bubble rate guesstimates for the CO2 injection. Astonishing coincidence though. They're on separate tanks, running off separate power points. Maybe there was a slight power surge that overloaded the 230v German transformer (we have 240v here), but I don't know enough about electrickery to be sure.


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## Repz (May 20, 2004)

Wow quite an amazing journey 
great pics and amazing tanks, i didn't really think many people in australia had planted tanks 
but you sure make it look easy to get them that nice =)
top stuff


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## Lorenceo (Jan 29, 2004)

Really nice tanks man! I love the hairgrass one.

If the transformers went, couldnt you just buy more locally?
Just match the voltage and amperage the old ones put out and connect them up. Would save having to ship new tunze ones.

What is the red stem plant on the right that is taking over? 
If you have cuttings you dont know what to do with, If I payed, could you ship em over? I'm just across the ditch


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## unirdna (Jan 22, 2004)

Way to post the bad along with the good roud:. Although, I don't dread green water . Staghorn algae - that's something to dread.

You've really grown that hairgrass in nicely. I had a feeling you were heading towards a terrible algae breakout in November, but it seems you know how to grow an "empty" tank better than I. A few sprigs of grass and a hygro here and there would have spelled disaster for my skills.

And my suspicions are starting to look warranted - there MUST be many species of dwarf hairgrass out there. Click the '46' in my sig to see how "low" mine grows. I'm curious if yours will reach up once it fills in. A bit more height would be nice, but I'd hate to see it cover your pretty rocks (and "stay off the grass" sign ).


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## StUk_In_AfRiKa (Jan 30, 2005)

Goodness that 100 gal is looking cute  I've seen lots of these "simple" lawn and hardscape tanks but yours sticks out in my mind. Very nice, can't wait to see the next update.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Thanks Repz. There are actually quite a few Aussies on here. I think the planted tank bug is catching on, especially when places like Strictly Aquariums now stock JBL CO2 stuff on their shelves where people can see them (which is how I learned about and bought my first CO2 setup) instead of having to order them in specially which means you already have to know what you want.

Thanks Lorenceo. I did indeed pop down to Dick Smith's and buy two local transformers (9v @ 800mA) but that didn't fix it. It appears the solenoid boxes are defunked, not the transformers. And because the controller/monitor draws its cable power via the solenoid box which are no longer delivering any power, I can only use the monitors with backup 9V batteries now. And just as monitors, not controllers. I'll need to pull one of the solenoid boxes apart to see what the problem is. 

The stems on the right are Limnophilia Aromatica. They only grow purple like that with very strong light. It's actually very common in the shops, but you may not recognize it as they usually sell the emersed version. The bottom pic in one of my previous posts here shows you what it would likely like in a shop tank before it has grown its more pointier underwater leaves. If you can't find any, I'd be happy to mail you a stem or two as long as I'm not breaking any quarantine laws. NZ is stricter than Australia in that regard I'm led to believe.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Thanks Ted. Yes I know your tank well! If you look at that link in my previous reply, I mention in the first line that your tank was the inspiration for my own hairgrass attempts. So if it all goes wrong and ends in tears, I'll blame you!  

I'm not sure if they are different types of dwarf hairgrass really. When mine is sparse like it is at the moment, or even when I first set up the 24g, the blades sort of bend and curl over at first so it doesn't seem so deep. But as times goes on they grow more upright. In the pic of the new 100g, you can see quite a few blades against the bigger rock, and also in the gap between the two rock piles, which are already starting to show it'll eventually all be at least two inches deep.

Come to think of it, I forgot to mention my PO4 test kit went wonky as well. Kept giving me 1.5ppm readings on both tanks for a few weeeks before I cottoned onto that being a bit suspicious. So I went and got another test kit and the PO4 in the 100g tank was way over 5ppm, while the other tank was okay. Maybe that explains the green water in only the 100g tank. Just need to keep NO3 and PO4 to a 7:1 balance and everything's cool, which I wasn't doing with the wonky PO4 test kit.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Thanks StUk, I'll definitely keep you posted!


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## [RK] (Aug 11, 2005)

unirdna said:


> Way to post the bad along with the good roud:. Although, I don't dread green water . Staghorn algae - that's something to dread.
> 
> You've really grown that hairgrass in nicely. I had a feeling you were heading towards a terrible algae breakout in November, but it seems you know how to grow an "empty" tank better than I. A few sprigs of grass and a hygro here and there would have spelled disaster for my skills.
> 
> And my suspicions are starting to look warranted - there MUST be many species of dwarf hairgrass out there. Click the '46' in my sig to see how "low" mine grows. I'm curious if yours will reach up once it fills in. A bit more height would be nice, but I'd hate to see it cover your pretty rocks (and "stay off the grass" sign ).


Most of the hairgrass sold in Australia are standard kind, 'Eleocharis acicularis'. There was only one place in Aust where i found the dwarf variety 'Eleocharis parvula'. I have the dwarf in mine, but its not that dwarfy. But thats probably due to low light levels.


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## jho51e (Jan 20, 2005)

awrieger said:


> There are actually quite a few Aussies on here. I think the planted tank bug is catching on, especially when places like Strictly Aquariums now stock JBL CO2 stuff on their shelves where people can see them (which is how I learned about and bought my first CO2 setup) instead of having to order them in specially which means you already have to know what you want.


Isnt it great! I too visited Strictly Aquariums (near the M5 entry) and saw the JBL stuff. Just a note on the "refillable" JBL CO2 systems, I spoke to them and they do not refill the cylinder, they only sell the replacement CO2 disposable bottles.

And I also read that BOC will only refill BOC cylinders.

I am looking into a CO2 system for my tank hence the interest .

I did find http://www.air-up.com.au/products.html which may be another option. Instead of hiring BOC cylinders, you can purchase one from here and they have refilling stations all over the country. Just sent them an email to ask about their regulator. 

Do you think the Air-Up tanks would be suitable as CO2 for planted aquaria?


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

They actually look pretty good in terms of being a good smaller compact size to fit within a cabinet, but it's a way hefty price to pay to own a cylinder when you can just rent one for a fraction of the price. 

Also, the refilling would be a bit of a hassle unless you live near one of those four Sydney resellers, and with the $20-$40 cost per refill for an Air-Up anyway, the Supagas rentals are still the better option as they deliver a full replacement to your door and take the empty away. CO2 should be like a pizza in my opinion, just ring them up and they deliver (have I mentioned five times already on this page that I'm lazy?  )

PS. At the bottom of the resellers page is a picture of their refill setup which shows Supagas cylinders used to refill an Air-Up cylinder, which is just like the setup they have at St George Aquariums - they refill smaller cylinders from a larger Supagas one ($9 for a 0.5kg JBL bottle, so I imagine they would charge similar to the Air-Up refillers for the bigger Air-Up 2.3 and 4.5kg bottles).


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## jho51e (Jan 20, 2005)

I like the door-to-door idea!

If it is not too much trouble, do you have a pic of your CO2 set-up?


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## [RK] (Aug 11, 2005)

why dont you get a dupla setup for about $400?


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## jho51e (Jan 20, 2005)

[RK] said:


> why dont you get a dupla setup for about $400?


Oh I didnt even think of Dupla.. thanks for that!


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

awrieger that is a beautiful looking lawn ! Very healthy tanks , both of them and the growth you have gotten in that short time is amazing.  

Now give that 100G a haircut ! :icon_eek: LOL


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Thanks Buck. 

I think it's really worth the effort (and patience!) right at the beginning to spend a lot of time individually splitting the hairgrass plants out one by one from the punnet/bunch they come in, and plant them out about 1/2 to 1 inch apart with a pair of tweezers. They fill the gaps between really well and from my experience with this tank as well as my previous 24g, it only takes about a month to get a nice filled-in lawn!


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Here's a length-wise shot:










That bare patch in the right foregound is where the Italian Vals were before I pulled them up. Same with the right back corner where the other Vals were.

And this is Ness (the other one's called Loch  ):


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## StUk_In_AfRiKa (Jan 30, 2005)

Haha I love Lock and Ness, the names and the fish.


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## enigmatic (Nov 8, 2005)

I've found this to be an amazingly inspirational and helpful thread. As you know from the PMs that I've sent, I'm now keen to get some more plants and also looking at improving my lighting.

I've been to Strictly Aquariums (West Ryde) once but they didn't have much in stock. May head back tomorrow.

Can I just say that my wife curses you as my reading and seeing what you have done has lead to me wanting to spend more money  

Cheers,

Chris


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

enigmatic said:


> Can I just say that my wife curses you as my reading and seeing what you have done has lead to me wanting to spend more money


LOL. I'm now imagining my tank pics as 'exhibit A' in any divorce proceedings now! 

If you buy an Aqualina compact fluoro double fixture from Strictly, be sure to also buy the cheap $8 plastic leg kit as well. I lowered the light I have on the 50g down onto the top glass to get more light in and an almighty **craaaackkk** like a rifle shot, the glass smashed from the heat. Back onto the legs now!


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

This is Gus the Dwarf Gourami (Neon Red variety). He's my latest addition I got last week for the 50g tank. At two inches, he's now the largest fish I have in my planted tanks. I picked the most confident looking one in the tank with the most erect finnage and so far he hasn't disappointed and has settled in very well.










That floating dead hairgrass leaf behind him looks like he has an extra feeler fin growing out of his back! There's also a small snail egg pod on the glass just below him which he seems to enjoy eating when he finds them.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Okay, the 50g aquascape. Take #2:



















The Amazon is now *exactly* dead on 40cm from the left, so it's a perfect 1/3:2/3 (40:80cm) layout. I've switched the rocks around which I think is a better formation as well. The two Anubias are now in front of the Amazon now, and the Hygo Corymbosa plants and cuttings are all behind the rocks (some you can't see yet). 

So hopefully this will be one of those formats where it's heavy on one side and tapers down to the right where there'll just be hairgrass. In fact, the entire right hand side of the tank will eventually just have the Hygo bushes and hairgrass and nothing else.

This is basically a work in progress though as all the swords on the left may get a bit messy and squashed as they grow, and I've also temporarily planted Rotala cuttings in the right hand corner but that will eventually be just all grass lawn there if all goes to plan. I've also sprinkled Spiral Vals about and see how they go.


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

Looks good but I have to ask... you actually "measured" for that sword placement ?  
J/K ya man...it looks really good planted like that and I like the stone placement. When the Vals you have behind the stone take off though you may lose that slope effect. Maybe you could group them in the left rear corner to help hide your equiptment and go with a plant that can be trimmed to height behind the stones. Actually once the hygro's kick in over there you may not even need another plant there. I tried Vals in a similar situation and I hated it after they started to grow out, they looked good as they grew but then just went crazy. 

Envision the tank 6 months from now , no more slope that you worked so hard for ! :icon_cry:


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Buck said:


> Looks good but I have to ask... you actually "measured" for that sword placement ?


Thanks. I most certainly did! Even put a bit of sticky tape on the outside glass to mark the spot so there'd be no error. 

That's basically as tall as those spiral vals get, eg the one close to the middle that reaches about two thirds to the surface. They don't actually grow up to the surface and across it like the normal vals do. My major worry with them was the problem I had in the 100g, where they just spread with runners like wildfire all over the place and through the hairgrass. If that happens (which it will), I'll pull them out. I guess they're just basically 'fillers' for the moment.

Actually, after thinking about it now, I'm not sure I'm even going to get that tapered effect anyway, as once all the hygro bushes grow they'll all be roughly the same size so it'll be more like an even background hedge rather than tapering from big down to small. So I'm going to add a baby green lotus (I have a few spares in pots) in front of the right hand rock to try and break any solid hedge up. I can always remove it if it gets too big, but green lotii don't grow as rampant as the red variety does from my experience.

My major worry now is that I'm making this tank too similar to my 100g now. A big Amazon sword, Hygro and Hairgrass. Don't really want two tanks that look the same! Or do I?


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## StUk_In_AfRiKa (Jan 30, 2005)

Very nice. I like the new layout a lot better than the first one.

As for the 2 tanks looking similar, if that's the style you like then go for it. These tanks are there to please you so make them identical if you like


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## enigmatic (Nov 8, 2005)

awrieger said:


> If you buy an Aqualina compact fluoro double fixture from Strictly, be sure to also buy the cheap $8 plastic leg kit as well. I lowered the light I have on the 50g down onto the top glass to get more light in and an almighty **craaaackkk** like a rifle shot, the glass smashed from the heat. Back onto the legs now!


I'll keep that in mind but I'm having second thoughts on the Aqualina unit as I've read in a number of places that people are having issues with them.

My search for new lighting is not going well


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## enigmatic (Nov 8, 2005)

awrieger said:


> LOL. I'm now imagining my tank pics as 'exhibit A' in any divorce proceedings now!


I should also say you take some pretty mean photos of your tanks. I can't get anything decent with my tank unless I push the ISO up then I get all grainy.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

In the context of my desk, a literal wall of water right in front of me:


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## Ðank (Dec 29, 2005)

:drool: What a beautiful desk. :drool:


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Thanks Dank. 

The one thing that bothers me is the light cable. This unit has a cable coming out each end (for each row of lights). The other cable is okay because it's on the 'non-viewing' end of the tank. I wish they could both come out that same end. I just assumed they did when I bought it. I may have to get the suspension kit and run the cables up to the ceiling instead.


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## deeplove (Dec 27, 2005)

Is that hairgrass you have in the tank?


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Very sweet office. How wide is that tank? I love the openness of it. Of course the swords will grow and grow. It is really beautiful! bob


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## unirdna (Jan 22, 2004)

Your leaning curve has been remarkable. I'm Absolutely blown away! That is the nicest lawn of hairgrass I've ever seen. Growing around the rocks...it almost looks like digital art. Perfect color.

I would get NO work done!


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Getting work done?! What work? My desk is purely for viewing plants and fish! 

Thank you very much, Ted!  I have to admit I still have a lot to learn. Like how to get rid of thread algae for starters! There are little patches of it scattered through the lawn which I keep picking out with tweezers, but I have no idea how to eradicate it. Not a major, serious problem - yet. It's the long thready/hairy type that grows like green fairy-floss. Nutrients, CO2 etc have no effect on it.

I made the mistake of re-using the grass from my first tank where the java moss was infested with this stuff. Obviously, washing the grass wasn't enough and fragments of this algae survived to regenerate, so I should have just started from scratch with new sterile grass from the shop. Which is what I'm doing in the other tank. I've totally pulled up all the hairgrass in that one, and will replant with brand new algae-free grass. Doing that in this tank though would be a nightmare, so if anyone has any suggestions on how to get rid of it?

Well, as you say, it's a learning curve. Live and learn!


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Thanks Bob! 

The dimensions of the glass area facing me is 4 feet wide x 2 feet high. The openeness of it is exactly the feel I was after. The entire top half of the tank is just open water. I did start with some Vals in there as well reaching up to the surface, but quickly removed them and it's so much better this way now.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

deeplove said:


> Is that hairgrass you have in the tank?


LOL! Considering half my recent posts in this thread were about the back-breaking task of planting it all out, I strongly suspect that it is indeed.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Here's a close up desk-top level view of the Rummy Nose Tetras. They're really cool because they stay low, just above the grass so they swim around and between the bushes










You can see another tank in the background, so if I move the camera a bit to the left... dum dum dum dum dum (that's Jaws music) there's my big Albino Oscar stuck in his boringly plain but clean tank on the other side of the room.










The darker green patches in the grass are that darned hair algae which is accursing my lawn! I'm just going to keep removing it by hand for as long as it takes to get rid of it I suppose. Luckily it's a non-sticking type of algae so I can just loosen and remove patches of it with a pair of tweezers I get under the algae and between the hairgrass hairs and then just gently pull up.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Oh, and this is Sushi, one of my latest acquisitions. A Japanese Ryukin. This is definitely not a planted tank! lol. I just wanted to show her off! 

I've had for a few weeks now. She's still only a juvenile at the moment and should grow about 3 to 4 times as big, but she's already got a great ryukin shape I think.


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## unirdna (Jan 22, 2004)

awrieger said:


> Luckily it's a non-sticking type of algae so I can just loosen and remove patches of it with a pair of tweezers I get under the algae and between the hairgrass hairs and then just gently pull up.


A fork works well, too. Nice photos!! I believe the 'jaws music' actually sounds like "duh-nuht duh-nuht duh-nuht" :hihi: Slowly, you and you alone, are whittling away at my contempt for goldfish.


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## [RK] (Aug 11, 2005)

BEAUTIFUL tanks mate! Do you have to cut the hairgrass to keep it that low? Mine grow quite tall (about 10-15cm).


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## dudleystinks (Apr 9, 2005)

is the tank sitting on the desk? If it is you have a strong desk whats it made of?


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## kzr750r1 (Jun 8, 2004)

awrieger said:


> The dimensions of the glass area facing me is 4 feet wide x 2 feet high. The openeness of it is exactly the feel I was after.


I like these dimension as well thanks for sharing the office pic. It gives some perspective that tank only shots don't privide.


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

The real reason those rummy nose are staying low is the "dun dun" (Jaws music) Oscar watching them threw the swords...:icon_roll


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Thanks everyone. 

RK, what light do you have on your tank? I'm not sure if it's the food as well, but I was a bit slack with the fertz for a while and it still stayed low, so I'm guessing it's the light. I've found with sufficiently strong light, the hairgrass stays short and more compact. It actually grows about a third to half as tall compared to when I first buy it in the punnets from the shop. It's also a bit lighter and more vibrant green as well compared to when newly bought. 

Dudley, no way my desk could hold that weight! Or at least there's no way I'd like to test it out!  It's on a proper stand which is pushed up backwards against the front of my desk with the doors of the cabinets facing away from me, so technically I'm looking at the 'back' of the tank. The stand and desk are both the same height, which could be a coincidence or just the furniture industry's 'standard' height I suppose.

Betowess, that's an interesting thought. Can schooling fish be spooked into schooling just by a fish shape that's not physically in the water with them? Without actually having to put a larger fish in the tank with them, like a lot of people do. Like if you put a picture of a large fish near the tank to make smaller fish school. Or make it move, like a dangling mobile.

I'm not so sure after having these guys for a while now. They used to be extremely spooked by me every time I went near their tank. At first, they'd dart and hide at even the slightest movement. But now I've been sitting in front of them all day long for a few months, they know me as 'food supply' now. They come running from every corner of the tank to school like a pack of ravenous sharks whenever I move my hand anywhere near the tank (like if I pick a floating leaf out, I have to be careful not to pick a Rummy out as well they get that close!). I even leave my fingers in the water when I feed them a frozen cube of Daphnia and they peck it straight from my fingers and it doesn't spook them at all now even if I wiggle them around quickly a lot. It's almost like a magic trick now when I move my hand across the tank and they follow it in a tightly packed school like it was a magnet. I'll try and get a picture of that (with the camera in my free hand of course!)

I guess it means that if whatever it is doesn't hurt them after a while, they learn not to be afraid of it. Like birds get used to scarecrows I guess. And Oscar isn't in any position to hurt them!


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Thanks Ted. That's the tune! I was never really musical, lol. And I'll have you coming over to 'the dark side' of goldfish keeping one day!

Being the most common pet in the world, everyone has that perception of a few small (really just baby) goldfish in the small tank or bowl with brightly coloured gravel, plastic plants and a castle. Which is quite totally acceptable I think because it's quite true. But then there's also the other lesser generally known aspect of goldfish keeping as an extremely serious and highly specialized hobby where a prize fish can fetch up to $20,000. It's sort of the same with Amano with planted tanks. It's just a whole diferent level to the average perception.

And like Amano, that Japanese and Chinese and other Asian serious attitude to goldfish is also catching on in the west. I'm seeing a lot better quality goldfish than even just two years ago on general internet goldfish forums now, just like the quality of hobbyists' planted tanks are improving more and more as time goes by. 

Actually, being a truly 'ornamental' fish (I'd say Bettas are the only other similar fish in that regard), they're not everybody's cup of tea. Sort of like keeping Orchids. You either like them or they just don't do anything for you. And like Orchids, they're just damn hard to grow and keep healthy! The most difficult fish of all in my opinion, because of their highly bred state, it just makes them so delicate (the true fancy goldfish I mean, not you plain comets and suchlike). Everyone says how Rummy Nose Tetras are difficult to buy and keep alive. So easy compared to goldfish I say!

But again like Orchid growers, once the bug really gets you, it can become a really serious (and expensive!) hobby. In Asia especially, there a goldfish shows and competitions which are really serious and prestigious. I could direct you to a Singapore Goldish forum where they are so ruthless about the perfect goldfish, I'd be too afraid to post my pic of Sushi there through fear they'd totally trash her for all her faults! I'm nowhere near that serious about it, but I can see myself that way in the future. When I can afford it!


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## [RK] (Aug 11, 2005)

Ah that makes sense. I dont have much light on my tank, so thats why the hairgrass tries to reach up higher towards it.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

This tank is just ****ting me badly. I just don't know what to do with it. I'm definitely not keen on this semi-natural tamed jungle look.










The lawn was growing thick and lush, but so too was that darned thread algae all through it, so I pulled it all up. There are some new hairgrass punnets just sitting there on the right for the past three weeks. Two have actually floated up in the middle there. I haven't planted it out yet because I'm not sure I want to with this current scape.

On the left are about two dozen Amazon runner plantlets, and on the right, a single surviving stem of Sessiliflora has run rampant. I saved just this one tiny stem from when I did this rescape a few weeks ago when I left all the stems in a bucket for a few days and they all melted ibto mush, so I've lost all my Macranda and both Limnophilias, Aromatica and Sessiliflora. Except this one tiny stem of Sess. And look at it now. Covering more than half the surface in just a few weeks.

I want to try somethg completely different. Something I haven't actually seen anyone else do on this forum. Which is a 'formal' scape. Geometric flower beds and all that surrounded by a lawn. I'd really like to try a Tuscan garden look. Even with a statue or two.

So I went to my two nearest, largest plant nurseries to find some decent pots and round edging material, but they had nothing! At least not that will fit in a tank and not made out of concrete (lime bad, sad face for fish) or cheap plastic. 

So on the way back home, I stopped off and bought a new 2' tank for my desk instead.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

2' TALL. DAY ONE:

So I got myself a new 2' tank for my desk. Now I not only have that big one in front of me, I have this one right next to me at my left elbow as well now. I still have that original 2' tank from way back at the beginning of this thread, but this one I saw in the shop is so much nicer.

It's one of those AquaOne ones, with slightly curved front glass and rounded edges so it looks a bit more classier than the bog-standard silicone-cornered ones. And so it should at the price they charge for it! Yikes! It's also got one of those filter plus light lid thingies, but I'll be ditching the pokey little light section and adding the 2x55watt fixture I still have from my previous 2' tank. This tank's about 35 gallons so that's just over 3 watts/gal.

It's 35 gallons because it's also taller at almost 2' high, which was the biggest selling point for me. Means I can experiment with terracing! Well, anyway, as I mentioned above, I want to try a different more formal type of aquascape. More like a typical home garden or balcony landscape rather than a natural landscape. 

But I couldn't find any decent pots or edging, so I had a good long think and decided to use some left-over Spanaish-style clay/slate roof tiles I had lying around and try more 'modern' geometric type scape. These tiles are basically half cylinders. So here is my geometric and symmetrical layout I'm going to try. Ouch! "Symmetrical?!?" I hear you all screaming! Noooo!!.. But, yes! And here it is:










So sod all that Amano nature stuff. That's old school! This is the wave of the future! Geometric and formal! Symmetry! 

So what I did was decide on four tiers. The lowest will be a lawn with two tiles laid on their sides as a 4" high retaining wall, where the grass will grow up a slope and onto the second tier. The reason I did this was because I don't have anything to cut the tiles with! So I worked out a way I think to make it look like I wanted that gap there on purpose! 

The second tier will have a couple of Amazon Swords growing out of the grass. 

The third tier is that central 'pot', which is just two tiles placed together. This will be the central feature, which will be a....drum roll, please... Red Lotus!

The fourth tier is two tiles placed vertically against the back wall to act as pots as well. These will hold an Amazon Sword each. I like these tall tanks where I can do something like that! 

So here it is half filled with water and the main feature plants ensconced. Funny how I just happened to have a Red Lotus plant handy.  Sorry for the quality of the pic, but it's late, it's dark, I'm tired...










So there you go, all five main plants planted. That's it. just five. And only of two varieties. Only the hairgrass to be added now. Quite a simple layout. Don't they look so small and lonely there with all that space! But I'm thinking if that Lotus grows anywhere near as well as the one I had in my first 2' tank, it's all going to be a tight squeeze once this tank grows out! I'm planning and spacing for how I imagine it will be in a few months, so patience is required! 

I was thinking about adding some Italian Spiral Vals I have along the back wall behind the Lotus. Not sure. I mght just try it and see. Once the Lotus grows it'll overshadow them and they'll die off anyway.


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## GreenerSideofLIfe (Dec 24, 2005)

Where do you get your goldfish from?? They are GORGIOUS. Makes even my 10+ inch chocolate look pretty bad. Fantastic planted tanks too btw.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Thanks, GreenerSide!  That actually should be 'were' gorgeous in the past tense as only three survived that chloramine spike in my tapwater 6 months ago, and those three are invalids now. Sushi is my first aqusition (along with another male Ryukin) since then!

You have a 10" chocalate? Oranda, I assume? Wow, that must be an impressive fish! 

For people in Sydney interested in buying nice fancy goldfish, Trans Aquariums in Canley Vale is the place to go. They import their fish from Hong Kong and China. Well, Hong Kong *is* China, now, I suppose..


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Speaking of which, I'm a glutton for punishment! Not even finished setting up my new 2' tank and I decided to spruce up Sushi's boring bare tank with some 'bouquets'. I showed earlier in this thread how I sort of experimented with them in plain tupperware pots, but this time I bought some nice baked enamel pots.

It was sort of spurred on by that rampant Sessiliflora in my 55g. I had nowhere else to put it after trimming it out so I decided to do this! I also added a few other spare plants I had lying around.

So here's the first bouquet. It's the Sessiliflora, Val at the back, a couple of small Amazon Swords, and then a Marble Queen and some Red Lotus babies in the front. It's been in the tank for 2 minutes and Sushi's checking it out:










Oh no! It's a salad bar! Or should that be a Sushi bar?  Not to worry, she was just checking it out and I think they'll be okay. 










I've switched the light unit to a 2x55w compact fluoro, so this is about 3w/g, but this is a fish tank, not a planted tank, so the fish has 100% priority so it'll probably be too difficult injecting CO2 as well with all the air bubbles and surface agitation going on. I'm going to have to rely on Excel instead for the carbon source for this tank. Maintaining a proper PO4:NO3 ratio is also going to prove difficult so I'm expecting algae problems and have added a lot of ramshorns to help me out in that regard.

Here's the full tank. All three pots are actually all identical material, but the two outer ones are angled so they look different to the middle one in this pic. I set the camera to 'auto' for these pics so all the colours look a bit weird anyway, sorry:










The Sessiliflora has settled in and is fluffing up nicely, reaching for the light. The middle pot has Wisteria, Hornwort, and a row of Green Lotuses. The right hand pot is basically the same as the left hand one (symmetry!  ) except the Val is Italian Spiral which is shorter. All the plants I've used are extremely overcrowded already and could/should grow ten times as much given the right conditions, so see what happens!


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## GreenerSideofLIfe (Dec 24, 2005)

Actualy shes just a fantail. Not very fancy by your terms but man did she make some gorgious babies! I will take pics of them all soon  I had a 8+ inch calico mirror scale lionhead. Hes with my friend now cause he needed to go to a special home. His head growth got so big that it invaded around his gill flaps into his gills and even after he had a bit if fishy surgery he still couldnt get around very well. Poor old guy! I didnt have a tank quite enough for him. So he went to a friend who had a 55 gal full of little guppies. LOL and one BIG roommate LOL


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Okay, slight change of plan. I started pulling apart one of the hairgrass punnets from the 55g to begin planting my new lawn hill/slope, but found it too had been infested by the thread algae. If even one microscopic thread gets through, I'll have an outbreak in my new tank too. So I've decided to trash those punnets. It may seem like a waste of money, but considering how difficult this stuff is to eradicate, it's well worth starting from scratch with new punnets from the shop I think.

Unfortunately they didn't have any! So I've placed an order so my new lawn hill/slope will have to wait until they arrive. But while I was there, I saw some interesting fish called Colombian Tetras which I'd never seen before so I'm deciding whether to go back tomorrow to get either them or some Flame Tetras.

I wasn't planning to populate this tank so soon, so to help avoid any possible cycling problems by adding too many fish too soon (seeing as how this is a brand new tank and filter and all that), my change in plans is to add some Wisteria and leave it there until I get the swords, lotus and lawn properly established. 

So here's how it's looking at the moment. This is dead front on so you can see how high the second tier actually is. The bare hill/slope in the front is now just a matter of waiting for the hairgrass to arrive and when that's finally in, those retaining walls shouldn't be so obvious. 










I'm really impressed with this 'tall' tank dimension-wise. I think now that all planted tanks should be tall, especially if you have stem plants! Even considering this is just a 2' tank, it just seems huge. Well, I guess it is. The same water volume as a standard 3' tank. 

The CO2 and filter are all set up now as well. I'm going to have to wing it with the CO2 though. No pH monitor or solenoid for this tank! Also, this 'built-in' new top filter is supposed to sit behind the built-in light fitting, but the only way I can fit my other separate light on properly is to have the filter at the front instead, and the light at the back. So the intake is there at the front. So for me to access into the tank, I'll have to remove my light fixture and push the filter back (instead of just lifting their light fixture at the front). See how long my patience lasts with that!


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Just a pic of the 110g from the other night after a water change and adding ferts, after which it always tend to go a bit cloudy for some reason. The former dark green patches in the grass which was the thread algae is now light brown patches from where it was blocking the light to the grass.










It clears up fine by the next day as you can see here. Notice the larger Corymbosa plant is beginning to shed it's lower leaves to expose a 'mangrove-type' root system growing out of the stem. I'm not sure if I should pull it and replant it, or just let it go like that. Turn into a tree sort of thing. If I pulled it, it's root system must be huge and it would cause a lot of disruption.










In the reflection of the glass at the top left you can see my new 2' tall. Speaking of which...


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Fascinating. After adding those Wisteria plants, the ammonia and nitrite readings went from 0.5 and 0.3 down to 0.1 and 0.1 respectively in less than a day. I think the nitrites are just from the Seachem Stability bacteria I've been adding. The nitrates are still zero so the tank is not cycling fully yet. I doubt it ever will if the plants suck up the NH4 and NO2 that quickly before any bacteria populations can grow enough to have a go at it!

So I went and got some fish! I decided against the Colombian Tetras and got 23 Flame Tetras instead. Which is as many as they had in the tank at the lfs. Settling in quite well so far I think.










I'm just a bit concerned about that one to the right of the central pot which deosn't look as healthy as it should. It has a red mark on its abdomen which looks like internal bleeding. Maybe I hurt it when I was trying to catch it in the lfs.

The Red Lotus is sprouting a new leaf already so that's doing a lot better than I expected. They're not supposed to like being moved around.

Oh, and the lfs said they couldn't get any hairgrass in because their supplier has run out and has to grow some more. So I told them to keep my order active, but I think maybe I'll just have to bite the bullet and retrieve the punnets of grass I have from the bucket I've put them in. Just use what I have to start the lawn otherwise it could be weeks of having a bare substrate and this tank looking 'industrial'. I'll just try my best to control any thread algae outbreak.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Phew. I just planted out a single punnet of the hairgrass I have. And it took me three hours! Sore neck and strained eyes as well, so I'm not sure if this is going to be worth this kind of effort (I calculate I'll need to do the other 6 punnets the same way to cover the area I need to cover, so I'm looking at 18 hours).

Tried to pick out every bit of the thread algae I could find. But the strands break apart into tiny 1-2mm pieces, so I'm sure that despite all my efforts some has gotten through to seed the new tank so it'll all a waste of time.


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## unirdna (Jan 22, 2004)

Jeez. It must be quite late in Aus. Get some sleep, mate .

I'd love to tell you that your efforts will pay off....but, my experience tells me otherwise . I don't know how you're planting this stuff, but I'd recommend you don't try to do the tank area 1/6th at a time. Rather, spread each planting evenly, and continue to thicken the area. You may burn out....I would. If so, let the plants do the work. It may take a bit longer than you hoped, but at least you won't have an unfinished feeling to the tank. Besides, there's a certain satisfaction in turning a trifle into a monument. It's one of my favorite aspects to this hobby. One that is lost on many of the worlds top aquascapers.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

An excellent suggestion, Ted! I was just starting from the left and trying to plant as densely as possible. I'll pull those already planted up and spread them around all over and then go from there to fill it in. Thanks!

I know for sure that I'm just asking for trouble using this grass, no matter how much I try and ensure it's algae-free. But I know equally for sure that whenever the lfs says 'next week', it invariably means anything from 3 to 8 weeks. I mean, the supplier has run out and needs to grow some more - by next week?? 

I don't really want a bare substrate, so I figure by the time the new hairgrass arrives in 6 weeks, I should already have a well-established lawn so can make a decision then whether to leave it or pull it up if it's infested and start afresh.


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## enigmatic (Nov 8, 2005)

awrieger said:


> I know for sure that I'm just asking for trouble using this grass, no matter how much I try and ensure it's algae-free. But I know equally for sure that whenever the lfs says 'next week', it invariably means anything from 3 to 8 weeks. I mean, the supplier has run out and needs to grow some more - by next week??


Have you considered giving this site a try for your grass (and other products)?
http://aquariumproductswholesale.com/

I had all but given up trying to get glosso but this place came through and it was delivered next day. There is a minimum limit to what you must order for plants only but I'd imagine you could find other stuff there to order too ;-)


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Hey, that's a great site, Enigmatic, thanks! I didn't even know it existed. They've got pro stuff (like T5 lights) rather than what the usual aquarium sites here offer. They even have Amano products! And lots of plants I've never seen available at the lfs, like Glosso and Riccia and about a dozen others! It's plant Christmas! 

Oooh, now I'll have to set up another planted tank for all the Glosso and other plants I want to order now but haven't got the space for!

I'll shoot them an email to see if they have dwarf hairgrass. Maybe they have the same supplier as the lfs so my wait may still be the same. How many aquatic plant suppliers can there be here? Probably just the one but the lfs simply doesn't order in the more exotic plants.

PS. $30 for a Green Lotus and $35 for a Red? And I just put 3 greens and 2 reds into a goldfish tank as salad! Yikes! I must have forgotten how much I paid for my original plants.


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## enigmatic (Nov 8, 2005)

awrieger said:


> Hey, that's a great site, Enigmatic, thanks! I didn't even know it existed. They've got pro stuff (like T5 lights) rather than what the usual aquarium sites here offer. They even have Amano products! And lots of plants I've never seen available at the lfs, like Glosso and Riccia and about a dozen others! It's plant Christmas!


Yes, it is new. Opened on the 17th Feb and they are adding stock all the time. I got a new Eheim filter from them and some glosso. I've got a shopping basket full of items I can't afford the buy  



awrieger said:


> Oooh, now I'll have to set up another planted tank for all the Glosso and other plants I want to order now but haven't got the space for!


How do you do this? You must have about 5 tanks on the go already. I can't convince the wife I need more than 1 tank despite showing her your thread (remember you will be involved in the divorce procedures)  



awrieger said:


> I'll shoot them an email to see if they have dwarf hairgrass. Maybe they have the same supplier as the lfs so my wait may still be the same. How many aquatic plant suppliers can there be here? Probably just the one but the lfs simply doesn't order in the more exotic plants.


I'm not 100% on where the stock came from but the glosso I got from them was great.



awrieger said:


> PS. $30 for a Green Lotus and $35 for a Red? And I just put 3 greens and 2 reds into a goldfish tank as salad! Yikes! I must have forgotten how much I paid for my original plants.


And I'm sure they are more expensive at other stores! The intention of this new site is to pass on the lowest prices - how many LFS have you seen selling grass for $2.95? More like >$8.95


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## jeff63851 (Oct 17, 2004)

Wow! I love that Sushi you have there! How many tanks do you have? From looking at the pictures, it seems like you have 10! Keep up the good work!


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Thanks Jeff! Actually six tanks. Only three are planted CO2 though. I do have another spare 2' tank set up with my left over plants, but I'm going to shut that one down once I've got these other three the way I like them.

Enigmatic, it's literally a full-time hobby now which leaves little time for anything else! You can thank her that she won't let you have more than one. It'll just take up all your time and effort and she knows she'll never see you! 

Well, you know what you've gone and done now? You've only made me go and order a whole bunch of plants from them! Some plants I've never even seen available in my lfs, so they're quite 'exotic' to me like a Madagascar Lace plant.

So I'm also going to change my 110 gal tank now as well as the 55g. Start switching out those bushy Hygro Corymbosa plants with more permanent root plants. As much as I like the the Hygros and think they look great, they're still stem plants and they're starting to lose their lower leaves and put out lateral roots now after three months. And I'm forever picking out floating leaves. So even though they don't need trimming and replanting as much as other stems, I want something I can set up without having to trim or replant anything for at least 6 months, maybe even a year or more. Totally stem-free tanks!

And once I've replaced all the main plants and they're established, I'm going to completely pull up the lawn and re-plant it from scratch with non-infested grass. Something I should have done the first time around, but I guess that's called learning from experience!

So I spent all day yesterday drawing up the new plans for both tanks, which was a lot of fun. Some of the plants in the 55g will now be going into the 110g, and vice versa with the Sword now in the 110g going the other direction. So stay tuned!


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

awrieger said:


> I'm just a bit concerned about that one to the right of the central pot which deosn't look as healthy as it should. It has a red mark on its abdomen which looks like internal bleeding. Maybe I hurt it when I was trying to catch it in the lfs.


Well, that wee fishie has recovered well and is back to full health, except for a slight kink in it's spine midway between his belly and tail where that internal bleeding was. The bleeding has all gone and it's difficult to tell him apart from the others now unless I look for the kink. I suspect he may have gotten bent in two in the crush of other fish as I poured them from their bag into the net before adding them to the tank. But he's okay now! Scuffling with the other males just like a.. like a.. well, just like a typical male! lol.

Well, anyway, all 23 are still present and accounted for. No new tank syndrome casualties to report. Not fully coloured up yet but settling in well. So much so, when I stuck my arm in yesterday they started attacking any small freckles or spots on my arm, which tickled a lot! Like a bunch of mini piranhas! I took that as a sign they were hungry and fed them. 

Here's a pic of a male and a female I took the other day.










These Flame Tetras are totally different to the Rummies or other flighty tetras I have. These just hang around cruising slowly at the front of the tank, with lots of space between each other so they fill out the entire top 2/3 of the tank. Not the constant swift darting and movement I was expecting from tetras (unless they're scuffling). They only school when it's feeding time, and even then not very well. It's more like a pack attack. They're overall behaviour reminds me of their relationship to their larger Piranha cousins. They even resemble them a bit in miniature I think!

I think I made a good choice with these Flames. They also complement the Red Lotus colouring, although I'm not sure if I'll ever get them as red as they're capable of going as that requires dim lighting, whereas this tank is very brightly lit.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Looks a bit like an oil painting, doesn't it? Wheat in the field and birds in the sky..










I think I was a bit overzealous with daily fertilizing, so the green water is threatening. This tank doesn't have a UV to save me from it, so I'll have to rely on actually doing everything properly. Oh no! The Wisteria is actually growing bezerk (totally swamping the four swords) which is what's staving off the full-blown solid green I believe. I think I might do a water change...

Well, my new order of plants have all arrived! There you can see the new hairgrass, so I can get started now! And some miniature Anubias, which will line the edge of the ledge. And floating at the top left are two Aponogeton Crispus's which I plan to put on either side.


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## unirdna (Jan 22, 2004)

Sure hope that hairgrass pay off. I can see from here (12,000 miles away ) that it was grown emersed, so be prepared for the dreaded changing of the guard - a golden time for algae species of all shapes and sizes. I had greenwater a couple years ago, and I noticed that my wisteria loved it. Or, rather, it was the only plant that grew the same regardless of greenwater.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Yep, I'm looking forward to the usual and inevitable 'picking out hundreds of brown floating needle leaves' as it changes over. That part's almost as much fun as the back-ache from planting it out! If only it was as easy as the Wisteria! 

I really like Wisteria. It's a great plant, isn't it? It always looks good and grows extremely well (even in green water, as you say!). It's always such a shame I have to pull it out when it grows too rampant.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

This is a Kleiner Bar. A cultivar supposedly a dwarf Red Rubin. Sequence of pics taken just after I bought it 8 months ago. I thought I'd just post these here now for anybody interested in seeing a red sword sequence from emersed to submersed.

And also as a sort of then and now comparison, because I'm about to take another photo of it in the next day or two once the water clears after just transplanting it to my 100g (yes, I've gone and rescaped the big tank, removed all the bushy Hygro plants - which you can also see as babies too in the 2nd and 3rd pics, bottom right).


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

*55g RESCAPE*

Okay, I need to get a life, spending all weekend on plants and fishies.

Okay, here's the tank. A few plants to go into the 110g, a few to throw away, and some there which have just been purchased:










Okay, here's the plan. A formal garden design:










Okay, so here we go. Spend all afternoon cutting off and shaping 2" of the edges of sandstone capping stones, then pull the tank apart... to achieve this result:










Okay, add the Amazons and Anubias on either end (the 2nd Amazon came from the 110g tank):










Okay, add the Ruffled Sword (from the spare tank), some Cryptocoryne Willisii, and various Anubia Nanas and Anubia Nana Petites (just purchased):










Okay, spend hours adding a lawn and then a few sprigs of Hygro Corymbosa as background fill, do a water change and all done!:










Okay, another angle. There's Gus Grissom my Gourami. The fish stayed in the tank for the duration of the changeover:










Okay, a bit different to the usual aquascapes. See how it grows in now.


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## unirdna (Jan 22, 2004)

Very cool roud:. Reminds me of an English courtyard. I think that you should let this tank become a bit overgrown in areas. I'm envisioning an aged nobelman's estate - like an old, abandon plantation in Louisiana. 

Always glad to see unique visions .


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## GreenerSideofLIfe (Dec 24, 2005)

LOL thats what I had in mind for my 55 gal... man.. you pulled it off WAY better than I did... Geeze. Ok. Im put to shame compleatly. 

I just cant seem to get my hair grass planted right. My fish like to pull it all up.


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## MoonFish (Feb 12, 2006)

i like the blocks. i would have picked a darker color. maybe you can keep them cleaner than I would. I'd like to do something like that with a curved line. Maybe even the foreground higher than the back so you can't see the bottom of stem plants.


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## fredyk (Jan 2, 2004)

I like the concept. How's about some lawn ornaments? flamingoes, gnomes, etc.
Mark


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## medicineman (Sep 28, 2005)

That is some kinky scape....  

Organized and tidy as someone's backyard... a new genre of scaping perhaps? Anyway I like the new ideas and waiting for more of your fresh juice.
(how about picturing a golf course?)


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Thanks everyone. 

I just thought I'd try something different from the 'au naturelle' scapes. The idea did stem from all my hairgrass lawn experiments, to do something similar to a terrestrial lawn landscape. Medicineman, creating a miniature golf course green (complete with little flag!) did cross my mind, but I'm really not that keen on golf! But I've always liked formal English manor house gardens, so I thought I'd try that style first. 

Thanks Ted, an excellent suggestion! If it's too tidy and well manicured it looks a bit too artificial. Actually a bit like it looks now! Too neat. Let it overgrow a bit. I'm actually hoping the Anubias will grow onto the sandstone in time as they grow and become rooted to it. *fingers crossed*



fredyk said:


> I like the concept. How's about some lawn ornaments? flamingoes, gnomes, etc.
> Mark


Believe it or not, that's actually the reason why I went to the trouble of making those 'bays'. But I just haven't found any decent statuettes small enough to fit yet! I think I need to have made the bays bigger, or just get a bigger tank... You know, the sort of statues you see around English Manor houses. Water nymphs or some cherubs I was thinking. Maybe an Aphrodite. Something classical. Maybe it's a good thing I can't find any though as I would probably be over-doing it!



medicineman said:


> a new genre of scaping perhaps?


I've always thought it odd that in all the thousands of pictures I've seen of planted tanks, I've never seen one trying to emulate a terrestrial landscaped garden like I've just tried. Not even the highly stylized Dutch tanks. There probably is one somewhere, but of all the ones I've seen, 99.999%** of them all try to emulate an idealized lake or river bed or some other natural scene (eg a forest or mountain scape). Maybe it's the strength of Amano's powerful influence in being the main 'scape ideas' originator in this hobby. Time to step aside, Amano! lol. 

**I saw one person on here once tried to do a garbage-strewn harbour bottom, but I'm not sure how successful it turned out.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Here's some close-ups. I'm amazed at how quick the water cleared after the mess I stirred up. You can see my stone-cutting prowess is not perfect - I'm no stonemason! 

Here's the middle with the Anubia Nana bordering. The Ruffled Sword is a bit crumpled from being squished into the small spare tank for too long. It should spread out a bit now it has space.










And the left side. Those small silver fish mingling with the Silver Tip Tetras are some recently acquired Diamond Tetras. That new Anubia leaf uncurling just behind Gus was just a small bud before the rescape, so that particular plant doesn't seem to have suffered any ill effects from being moved.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

2' Tall scape

Meanwhile, over in my 'spanish roof-tile' tank... Ha, I've got three tanks going at once in this thread now, so I think I'll add a big title to each post to avoid confusion!

Well, I finished this one as well today. Removed all the Wisteria and planted the lawn and Anubias. It just needs to grow in now and see what happens. The water's still a bit cloudy:










Those two Aponogeton Crispus plants on either side (which look like shrivelled brown lettuce) would have to be the saddest looking plants I've ever bought. They looked pretty dead when they arrived, but I thought I'd plant them anyway and see if they recover. Also, those Spiral Vals at the back are just temporary 'fill' until the Lotus overpowers them with shade.


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

I miss that Budda you had way way back. That was one of my favs of all time!


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Same here! I haven't thrown him away, he still meditates patiently in my garage awaiting what the fates will bring him... I just need another tank is all!


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

*55g*

Two week update. Has it been 2 weeks?

Seems to be growing in well so far. Lots o' bubbles coming off the plants (upside down rain I call it!) with the Amazons and Anubias putting out new leaves and stuff. The new leaves are a bit lightish because I forgot to switch the UV off for a week so no iron!

KH = 6, pH = 6.5 which = about 50ppm CO2.










And the Ruffled Sword is growing like a lettuce under the 5w/g light:


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

*110g*

Sneak preview! Is that a Madagascar Lace I see there?  










All the Hygro Corymbosa is gone, to be replaced by:
3 x Amazon Swords
1 x Palaefolius Sword
1 x Ruffled Sword
1 x Ozelot Sword
6 x Kleiner Bar Swords
3 x Anubia Nanas
2 x Madagascar Lace
2 x Green Lotus

The only plants I actually bought were the Anubias and Madagascars so I'm basically using what I already have.

In a while I'm going to pull up and replace all that algae-infested grass once all these new plants settle in. Maybe try a bleach treatment on it in a bucket rather than buy new grass. I found micro-filaments of the Cladophora algae on the new hairgrass I bought recently so it's not a problem that's going to go away by buying new grass!


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## Adrian (Aug 17, 2005)

Simply magnificent, all of them!


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## unirdna (Jan 22, 2004)

I can't get over the impression that 55 leaves me. It has a very strong feel of a sunken society, especially when a fish (nature) is contrasted with the rigid structure of the bricks. Very "atlantis". When the scape gets a little "messier", I'm going to be downright envious .


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## Urkevitz (Jan 12, 2004)

I love the 55, totally looks like a garden.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Thanks guys!  

I was actually thinking maybe this sort of formal layout needs more 'formal' looking elegant fish that'll wander around in the foreground. The plainer Tetras blended in well with the more natural look, but they sort of disappear with this new look. Angels, maybe? Discus? What do you think? I'm just a bit wary of potentially aggressive fish - I like peace and harmony tanks! .


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

*110g*

Look! Look! I'm all excited!!! I've got a new baby Madagascar leaf! 

I was really worried the Laces wouldn't survive, but this new leaf has grown like half an inch in just the last day so it looks like at least one of these two new plants likes my tank!










[Does anyone notice the camouflaged eye in the bottom right corner of this pic?]

I didn't see it before because it was still small enough to be hidden behind that new Anubia leaf. You can't even see it in the pic I posted two days ago. But it's really popped up! Is it supposed to be red like this though?










PS. I really do need to get a life... getting all excited over a leaf.. *sigh*


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

*2' Tall*

Just thought I'd buy one of these when I was at the pet supply shop today picking up my Flourish Iron (the only livestock they actually sell are small tanks of cheap goldies and jars of bettas). Just a spur of the moment thing. I thought a red one would match the Red Lotus.

He seems to be doing okay with all the Flame Tetras, who have so far left him completley alone on his first day. Which is a good sign, I think. No fin nipping yet *fingers crossed*. Please ignore yet another bacteria/algal bloom in the water! I think that must be the third one now in three weeks.










It wasn't until I got him into my tank that I noticed he has some sort of blister or something warping his lower fin a bit. The blister is on the reverse side to this photo. Hope it's not permanent.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

*2' Tall*

And so it begins! It didn't take long at all. Those micro-filaments of Cladophora I mentioned I found in my new batch of Hairgrass? They've struck:










This pic is just under one inch in width. Those are Ecocomplete substrate granules. Look at all the snail and fish poop and food detritus already building up in such a newly set up tank, no wonder I'm getting green water!

Anyway, so this is how it starts, attaching itself to the substrate first instead of the grass. Or at least I can't see any on the grass itself yet.

I'm going to try to outsmart it this time while the grass is still thin enough for my dastardly plan to work. I'm going to spread another 1/2 inch or so layer of Ecocomplete over all the grass and bury it alive! [--> cue evil laugh :icon_twis ]


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## fredyk (Jan 2, 2004)

don't fertilize. water change. pull out all visible algae. 
water change next week. again don't fertilize.
 callmeinaweek ):
I have had, and do have, hair algae. that is the strategy that works for me.
note that the water hereabouts has high nitrates and phosphates. 
I think benign disinterest works best.
Mark


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## esarkipato (Jul 19, 2005)

My compliments on the 55 as well! Something totally different than I'm used to seeing, and I love it. The rock/retaining wall structure really draws you in, closer, like you are underwater or something . . . . I'd get some german blue rams, they would look really nice scavanging down around the grass/rocks. PLus they are really cool fish. Would also be good tankmates for 3-4 discus!


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

the 55 is AWSOME! i really like the wall and the lawn... maybe also get a good school of some cories... maybe like 6? they would love that lawn... also some rams and discus would look good too in there!

-=- fish newb -=-


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Thanks for the tips, Fredyk. Unfortunately I went bezerk. See my next post!

Thanks Esarkipato and Newb! It's quite an interesting tank visually in real life even though it's such a basic and rigid layout. What I mean is that there's this weird 'Alice in Wonderland' type of sensation of having fish swimming around in what your mind is telling you should be the air because it looks like a normal terrestrial garden. I think Ted came close to it by describing it as sunken Atlantis. A human structure where it shouldn't be. I think there's lots of potential different ideas for this sort of concept!

Thanks for the Discus suggestions too. I may even put them in the 110g. I've been doing some research on them but I'm just getting confused! I've posted a thread in the fish forum about it. I'm just worried they'd eat all my tetras!


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

*110g*

Aaarghhh! What have I done! I've ruined this tank!

The algae in the grass was getting so bad, I tried trimming some of the grrss real short with a pair of scissors. Mistake! A cloud of a million floating hairgrass leaves! So I thought, sod this, the only way I'm getting rid of this algae is to remove the grass and start all over, and the sooner the better, so I may as well do it now. So I did. I didn't actually plan to do this, at least not so soon:










(That orange goldfish at top right is a reflection of Sushi in her tank behind me).

Almost a bucket full of hairgrass! Oh, I'm going to get green water again now after removing all that plant bio-mass all at once. Stirred up a lot of detritus and silt too. I'm thinking this is actually what the Cladophora thrives on. There was a lot of detritus building up in the original java moss too where it all started.

Cleared up a bit after a while (2400 litre/hr filter), and all the Rummies calmed down from being so spooked. I'm not so keen on that bare gray substrate now.










I'm thinking about re-doing this tank similar to the 55g now...


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## esarkipato (Jul 19, 2005)

> I'm thinking about re-doing this tank similar to the 55g now...


I'd say go for it. Maybe several levels, with a small stream running through it . . . I mean, an earthen stream, errrrrrrrr. . . . a picnic table . . . . . lawn chairs for the fish . . . . barbeque grill . . . . it's like a sunken atlantis PARADISE for your fishies!


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Oh, I got plans, Ernie. I've got plans! lol 

*110g*

Remember that baby Kleiner Bar from the previous page? Well, here it is all grown up (and shaved) now. This pic is taken from the other side of the tank from the usual angle, as that's where the plant is.  

I transplanted it from the 55g, where it was being crushed beside the Amazon. Without enough light, the leaves went long and dark green on long stems. Basically it looked just like a big Melon Sword or something. About a foot high.

Anyway, after I transplanted it to this 110g, I pulled off all the long green leaves (about a dozen of them) and just left the two newest ones. Well, with all this light available to it now, lookie at the new round leaf on a really short stem growing out now! It's almost circular, about 6" long. Now that's what a Kleiner Bar is supposed to look like! I think... 

In the background is another baby K.B. also growing a new red leaf, which came from a runner from this one while it was in the 55g. A family affair!


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

*2' TALL*

5 week update since setup.

It's starting to grow in well I think. There are no stems so I haven't trimmed it or touched it at all so far, and don't plan to!  Okay, maybe soon I'll have to start trimming a few leaves off the Lotus every now and then as it's growing pretty well.

For those who doubt the benefit of CO2 (and symmetrical layouts too!), here's a comparison example in the same tank! The A Crispus and the Amazon Swords on the left next to the CO2 diffuser are growing better than the ones on the right further away from it. And the distance between them is only about 15". Bet you didn't know this happens, because you wouldn't notice something like this with asymmetrical layouts! 



















And to save going back through this thread to compare it to it's first day of setup, I'll re-post that pic here again:


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## Lorenceo (Jan 29, 2004)

Wow.
I must admit, I was skeptical when you started this whole symetrical layout thing, but I've got to hand it to you, it looks great!
Keep up the good work!roud:


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## unirdna (Jan 22, 2004)

Hairgrass is growing in very nicely - no algae attack, as far as I can see. I agree with Lorenceo, the tank has its appeal. I think this scape works because it is so unapologetically "man made". Gives the tank a feeling of decorum and structure.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Thanks Lorenceo! I don't think you were the only sceptical one. In all the five weeks since I first posted about it, only you and Ted have specifically commented on it so far!

So thanks to you again too, Ted! 

No major algae outbreak yet, but I can see some tiny fibres scattered about, so give it a few weeks! I'm still considering re-laying about half an inch more substrate over the grass and burying what algae is there. 

I can understand why it may not appeal to people. Especially in its early stages. I've even referred to it myself as 'industrial' earlier on! But I think (er, hope) it'll eventually lose a bit of the structured feel and evolve into a more terraced tuscan garden feel, especially once the grass hill/slope at the front fills in. And the two tiles holding the Amazons at the rear will eventually be invisible anyway behind the foreground swords once they get bigger. I'm imagining it'll look like a double-tiered/height sword plant *fingers crossed*.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

I'm still fascinated by the swords nearer the CO2 diffuser having better growth. I've noticed it in my other tank too. The one nearer the diffuser is growing larger and longer leaves than the one on the far right, 4 feet away from the diffuser.

Funny thing is, I measure the pH at the right side, away from the CO2. And it works out to around 40ppm. So the plants on the left next to the diffusers must be getting even more CO2 concentration than that, assuming it dissipates over distance (even a mere 15"!). 

If I recall what I've read, it generally says plants can only use about 20-30ppm, but I'm guessing I'm clearly getting even more growth from extra CO2 above 40ppm. In two tanks!

I'm going to test the pH at both ends of the tanks and see if I get different readings! Maybe that's the underlying principle behind Tom Barr's putting the diffuser in front of the filter outlet. It simply spreads the CO2 equally/better throughout the tank therefore ensuring overall better growth, rather than otherwise having it more concentrated near the diffuser and the plants further away not getting as much.

Just a half-baked theory..


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

*2' tall*

A week later (6 weeks). With the lotus and grass, this is looking eerily like a re-incarnation of the first 2' planted tank I did. Spooky! Except no stem plants this time!










Little to report for just a week's worth. Grass filling in a bit more. Lotus growing a bit more. The Crispus on the left is starting to put out nice long leaves now, so it seems to have recovered well from the brown, wrinkly sad-looking specimen it was when I first got it. But the leaves are still pale. I'm dosing iron so I don't know why...

Oh! I think I worked out why the plants further away from the CO2 weren't growing as well. I had the filter outflow at front right pointed at the right back corner. So I was basically blowing non-CO2 water onto the right-hand plants! I've now pointed it at the left back corner, at the CO2 diffuser, so it should blow the CO2 downwards from there and hopefully then all around the tank.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

*43g*

This 4' tank is not 55g at all! I've been deceiving you all along! Myself too. I just assumed it was 55g. But I actually did a litre to gallon conversion last week and it's only 43 gallons. Which means it's not half the size of the 110g at all, but more like a third!

Nothing much happening with this tank. The sandstone wall is grunging up well. But differences are slower and less dramatic than if it had stem plants in it, so really just need to be patient with this one.

But I did just add a bunch of Cardinals!










They're really tiny!! The Diamond Tetra there dwarfs them. Small they may be, but cheap they are definitely not! Yowzas! Sticker shock! They're pretty small though. Maybe I should have gotten some more... It doesn't look like there're 22 there..

I realized what the problem was with this tank. The more subtle colouring of the Silver Tip and Diamond Tetras would work well with brightly coloured plants like Aromatica and Macranda I had in their previous tank. But this new tank is totally green, so they just sort of blend in there. So I needed some colourful fish! Like bright little flowers complementing the greenery!


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## unirdna (Jan 22, 2004)

Cardinals are usually sold tiny, but grow very quickly if they are happy. Fed once a day, mine grow to 70% full size within a couple months. The remaining 30% of growth (to the "monstrous" size of nearly 2 inches) takes much longer, and differs among the school. I have 28 of them in my 46g. The only way I can ever accurately count them is to take a photo during feeding time.


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## fredyk (Jan 2, 2004)

thats lookin re-al purty, awrieger, {can you hear John Wayne? that's my john wayne accent}

I love hairgrass and have been following your adventures with delight. keep on truckin, baby.

u just need a focal point like some mini flamingoes, a lawn chair, and ice tea! plus, cut that grass, m'aam! It's been said that it will grow in thicker.
: ( 
):

Mark


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

*2' tall*

7 weeks. Something tells me I'm going to have problems with this Lotus!










It's already developed two side-plants alongside the main plant, so I'm getting more leaves than I expected, all trying to crowd each other out. I might have to do some surgery and remove them!

*43g*

These little blue things are brilliant! Whereas the other fish scatter about through the plants, these little guys shoal back and forth across the front of the tank just above the grass. I'm very glad I got them! 










PS. You can see the grass is not growing so well on the extreme left and right where it's being shadowed by the swords and anubias. Not so bad in the middle where the ruffled sword is set back a bit more than the other two swords.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

*Ted* thanks for the tips. I also got some Black Neons and some more Rummies to put into the 110g and it was only then did I realise how big my other Rummies were now. Twice as big as the new fellows, even though I got them really small at the time too!

I might try your snapshot trick as I have no idea if I've lost any Cardinals or not so far! Usually I keep track by deducting any deceased I might find, but in such a thickly planted situation they could just disappear and I'd have no idea!

*Mark* thanks! You're right about it needing a focal point. My original concept was to have two statues or something in the spaces between the three big plants, but I' ve not been able to find anything suitable. Maybe not flamingos though! 

At the moment it's just three equally spaced bunches of green. So I'm thinking maybe I should have put the Lotus there in the middle instead of the Ruffled Sword, and the Ruffled into the 2' tank instead of the Lotus. Swap them around maybe...


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## Lorenceo (Jan 29, 2004)

I agree about the lotus, it is going to take over that 2' tank.
The 43g looks great IMO, I dont think you need to do anything to it.
One thing I would do is move the light towards the front though, it will help get more light on the hairgrass.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Lorenceo said:


> One thing I would do is move the light towards the front though, it will help get more light on the hairgrass.


Done! See how that goes now.

I've been thinking about trying Glosso instead of grass because it's lower-growing. The sandstone wall is starting to disappear behind the grass!


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

*110g*

Black Neons now occupying the top half of the tank! I love them enough to want to get some more. A huge shoal of them! In my other tanks, this number of plants would be overcrowded, but here they look quite sparse. The Paleofolus Sword there would also be breaking the surface on the other tanks, but in this 24" deep one it's still underwater. 

This tank is just in a 'holding pattern' at the moment until the local supplier gets their ADA Aquasoil delivered (and if I'm quick enough to get some before it's all sold out), because I really don't like the look of this Onyx Sand at all. 

Looks like a bitumen road on a hot day to me. Or the bottom of a gravel pit. Yuk. It was okay before when my plan was to have it covered completely by grass so you couldn't see it, but now the grass is gone it's quite unsightly and unnatural imo. The Rummies don't like it either as they've stayed a lot paler since I pulled all the grass out. I think they'd prefer a much darker substrate that doesn't reflect so much light.










Notice how the new Ruffled Sword leaf right in the middle there is growing so differently to the one in the 43g? Longer, thinner, darker leaves, compared to the 43g's looking like a round, bright green lettuce. This tank has 4 x 54w T5 lights, which works out to just under 2w/g, while the 43g has 4 x 55w PCs which is just over 5w/g. All the experts like Tom said 100g+ tanks don't need as much watts to have the same light as smaller tanks, but the difference in the Ruffled Sword growth is marked.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

*43g*

I decided to trim of all the tatty older leaves off the three Swords, and also remove the Hygro Corymbosa from behind them so the three plant groupings are more well defined now. Much better, I think! That Sword on the left has split into two plants, but I'm just going to leave it as it is for the moment. 

Those little Crypt Willisii should get some more light now, but I need something else in the background behind them now I think. Maybe some A Crispus or something. And I'm really considering switching the grass with Glosso, so I can see the front of the wall better (the Anubias should eventually cover the top of it, which is the most visible part right now).


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## unirdna (Jan 22, 2004)

awrieger said:


> I'm really considering switching the grass with Glosso, so I can see the front of the wall better...


IME, this move will drastically change the look of your tank. The glosso will have a similar look to your anubias (leaf shape). Not saying this is good or bad; just that the foreground will contrast less with the other plants if glosso replaces the grass. Also, glosso will start to grow on top of itself, and force higher growth like the grasses. So, you won't get off that easy .

....maybe HC is the ticket?


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## rrguymon (Jul 10, 2005)

I found Glosso to be a real pain to keep up. It can look really nice for a couple three weeks. However, I could not find an easy way to trim or thin it. If I wanted to keep it looking ok I would have completey pull it out and replant. About 3 rounds of that and I took it all out haha.

Your tank looks great. I like it. 

Rick


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Thanks for the heads-up about Glosso, guys. I very much appreciate finding out about this stuff before I do it! And thanks for the comment about the tank too, Rick. 

Yes! Yes! HC! I just looked at some pictures of it. That plant would be absolutely perfect! It would still look like a field/lawn so I get to keep that formal English garden look, but it'll stay low so I'll be able to see the nice sandstone texture of the wall too.

I don't know if I can get it here though.  I've only just recently found Glosso for sale for the first time, which is why I've been thinking about using that instead (and why I've always used hairgrass so far, use what I can get basically!).

There is another plant similar to glosso I'vre read about which is bright green. It's called Elatine Triandra, which has a similar Australian relative (Elatine Gratioloides), but I've never seen this plant for sale here either. I think I need to start asking around!


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

*2' tall*

You know how I mentioned I needed to trim the Lotus? Well, three days ago, I did!  










Poor thing. Looks totally decimated, doesn't it? I had to remove all the existing leaves to try and get the new growth coming in on much shorter stems. Well, at least I think I had to!

Not to worry though. Here's a pic of the gang inspecting their 4 new tankmates yesterday (long-finned bronze corys), and at the bottom you can see that little sprout has already grown to the size of the previous leaves in just two days. And look at the green water outbreak already just from removing a couple of leaves. Well, very *big* leaves. And more than a couple. Quite a bit of plant mass came out the other day.










Anyway, I'm going to remove that useless and annoying top-filter that came pre-packaged with this tank, and switch over to an external canister filter today.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

*2' tall*

Well, I've decided to replace the Lotus. It was probably a bit too ambitious a plant for such a small tank. Even after the trim it put out long stems.

It was a bit of a squeeze getting him that space, but oh lordy, what have I done?? I'm definitely going to get flunked out of the Amano Nature Aquarium School now...










And enjoying a water change...










The Big B is hollow so god knows what manner of evil anaerobic bugs will be growing inside him over the next months. I'm not going to move him just in case I release some wicked sulfur gas or something!

He needs to grunge a bit too. Last time I used him, he grew a nice head of green hair, with that part being so close to the light and all that., but I think the Ram's Horns will keep it trimmed this time.


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## fredyk (Jan 2, 2004)

I like the Buddha. 
I'm going to try to get a lawn of elantine going, but it's gonna need lots of trimming. You don't see alot of elantine lawns because the elantine stuff will just grow into a big messy mound that needs to be thinned out IMO


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

I wasn't familiar with elatine so had to google it. It looks like it'll do the same thing as glosso and just pile up on itself like you said. Much brighter green though! 

Actually, while I was looking for a picture of it I found a couple on this webpage, but it's the small-leaf plant just behind it in the second pic which looks interesting. Would you know what that is? Is it Hemianthus callitrichoides? It looks good in small patches like that I think.

Edit: Yep, I just looked at the rest of the website and it is HC. That's the stuff for a flat lawn I think!


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## Georgiadawgger (Apr 23, 2004)

fredyk said:


> I like the Buddha.
> I'm going to try to get a lawn of elantine going, but it's gonna need lots of trimming. You don't see alot of elantine lawns because the elantine stuff will just grow into a big messy mound that needs to be thinned out IMO


Good point, but IME it was much easier to maintain than glosso. It can be pruned and left behind, while glosso has to be completely replanted (since the yellow dying leaves look horrible). 

The tank looks great! That buddah...just how big is that thing?


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## Cardinal Tetra (Feb 26, 2006)

Your tanks are awesome! I love the buddha and how the light reflects off his head, what's it made of?


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Thanks Dawgger and Cardinal! 

He's approx 14" high and the same again knee to knee. He's made of unglazed ceramic porcelain.

PS. I really do need for him to grunge up, at least so I can take a proper photo. Being so white at the moment, the camera has to expose for him and makes the rest of the tank look darker than it really is, which is a bit deceptive as it's quite a brightly lit tank.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

awrieger said:


> I wasn't familiar with elatine so had to google it.


Well, look at that, I just read back up this page and saw I mentioned Elatine (and even linked to the same page as I just did again as if I'd never seen it before!). Am I an idiot or what? Geez, you'd think I'd remember what I wrote only four weeks ago! Sorry Fredyk, I think it's because I basically gave up all thoughts of trying to find any available commercially here and so put it out of my mind. I suspect it'll only ever be a plant I only get to see in photos. Probably the same with HC too.


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## unirdna (Jan 22, 2004)

awrieger said:


> He needs to grunge a bit too. Last time I used him, he grew a nice head of green hair, with that part being so close to the light and all that., but I think the Ram's Horns will keep it trimmed this time.


Agreed  - he needs a bit of grunging. Got that creepy "too white" look to him; like when someone in your office gets their teeth whitened. I would love to see the Big-B Troll Doll look :hihi:.


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## Georgiadawgger (Apr 23, 2004)

awrieger said:


> Well, look at that, I just read back up this page and saw I mentioned Elatine (and even linked to the same page as I just did again as if I'd never seen it before!). Am I an idiot or what? Geez, you'd think I'd remember what I wrote only four weeks ago! Sorry Fredyk, I think it's because I basically gave up all thoughts of trying to find any available commercially here and so put it out of my mind. I suspect it'll only ever be a plant I only get to see in photos. Probably the same with HC too.


See if Eds has some or Pseud...I believe they have it growing from when I sent them some this past fall. Its worth a shot.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

unirdna said:


> Agreed  - he needs a bit of grunging. Got that creepy "too white" look to him; like when someone in your office gets their teeth whitened. I would love to see the Big-B Troll Doll look :hihi:.


That's what bugs me about that Extreme Makeover show. The people often look too 'plastic' and weird. I realised it was mostly due to their new ultra white teeth, which don't quite look natural.

So yep, needs a bit of decay! Like those statues you see in Bali covered in moss and stuff. Stains from the rain and weathering. Not a good look for teeth though!


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Thanks Dawgger, but Pseud is in CT. That's Connecticut right? Wrong country I'm afraid!


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

*2' tall*

Coming along nicely, I think.










With .25ppm tap ammonia (after it's filtered!) and no UV, this tank has been nothing but a green water battle since I set it up. Pea soup green most of the time. I was seriously at the point of buying a UV, but I've just left it alone for way past it's due for water change and fert dose, and the GW started clearing up by itself yesterday. You can see the evaporation level here, where it's lowered enought he spray bar is breaking the surface (meaning the CO2 has dropped from 60 down to 26!):










I'm leaving it for a few more days just to guarantee the GW's all gone, then do a big water change and see if that just brings it all back again.

Those Aponogeton Crispus's I thought were little sad brown pieces of soggy lettuce when I first got them have started taking over the tank now! The long leaves (and flowers) make a nice bower I think.


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## unirdna (Jan 22, 2004)

.25ppm NH3?!? Is that legal?

Is this tank in a different location than your others? I don't recall you mentioning the ammonia dilema before this. I'd keep a 5g pale with a seeded, sponge filter in it for water changes. Change that ammonia to NO3 _before_ putting it in the tank.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Yep, the big 110g is constant green water too. That and this one are the only two tanks which don't have UVs, so these are the only two with the GW problems. The 43g 'English Garden' one has a UV, but I only need to switch it on for a day if it looks like it's turning GW and that fixes it for weeks.

It'd be difficult to set up a large enough bio-filtration system due to the amount of all the water changes unfortunately. So I think I'm going to set up a portable UV with a pump so I can move it from tank to tank when needs be. I'd only need to run it for a day or two.

Yep, 0.25ppm.  And that's *after* it's filtered through a chloramine filter and into a storage tank. Straight out of the tap it registers 0.5ppm straight ammonia, plus the chloramines on top of that. It never used to be like that before the middle of last year. Ammonia was always zero out of the tap before then, but something happened around June and it's been bad ever since.

It's actually possible for me to cycle an empty tank now just by adding fresh tap water!


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## unirdna (Jan 22, 2004)

awrieger said:


> So I think I'm going to set up a portable UV with a pump so I can move it from tank to tank when needs be. I'd only need to run it for a day or two.


Makes sense. NH4 would be gone within a day....but what a PIA having to set that up every time you top the tank off.

The portable UVS is a piece of equipment that has a very serious need. An all-enclosed, one piece, H.O.T., UV sterilizer - pump and all - with a flow adjuster! I've searched high and low....no one makes one! You need to role your own, if you want it portable. If I owned Coralife, I'd be kicking my prototype team for not having made this 5 years ago.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

There's a marketing potential there for sure! If I'd seen one I'd have already bought one most definitely. It'd be a "gee, that would really help in my situation, I'll take one!" sort of product. They have portable diatom filters, don't they? I've seen my lfs using one. I was thinking about screwing it all into a piece of wood so the pump and UV were all set up together as a unit.

I actually pulled a UV off one of the goldfish tanks and used a little Eheim pump to clear the GW on the 110g (way back in this thread when it first went GW). But because the pump was such a small one it took a few days to clear the 110g completley. I figure a big pump about 1000+ litres/hour and a 30w UV would clear it in a few hours.

I don't think I'd have to run it after *every* water change. It seems to keep it away for weeks once it's zapped all the algae, even after further multiple water changes.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

I guess one of the good things about green water is that it suppresses all the other algae. But I actually want a bit of algae growing on the statue. So this is the extent of it so far, just a little bit on the head which is closest to the light so far which the snails are keeping trimmed. 

I'd be happy if I can get more on the rest of the statue and the snails keep it trimmed as I think it'll look like the terrestrial moss on a jungle statue in Bali or Thailand.


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## scott25 (Apr 25, 2006)

hes getting a haircut by the snails


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## Saints1804 (Oct 27, 2005)

What species of swords are those in your 43g?


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Saints1804 said:


> What species of swords are those in your 43g?


Just Amazon Swords on either end, and a Ruffled Amazon Sword in the middle.


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## awrieger (May 12, 2005)

Well, four days ago marked the anniversary of the beginning of this thread. A whole year since I first embarked on my plant adventures (56K warning).

I've enjoyed sharing my experiences with you as I moved from smaller tank to larger (and more numerous tanks too!), and learning as I went along, and still not learning everything or even enough. I hope you've enjoyed reading this thread as much as I've enjoyed adding to it.

But it's run its course and it's time to put it to rest now. I'll be tearing down the 43g tank and the 2' tall tank and converting them both to goldfish tanks. To be honest, i just enjoy goldfish more than aquascapes. They're both great, but it's just a different type of appreciation and enjoyment. Sort of like comparing having a pet (like an underwater hamster) to gardening. I just want more pets, and even want to try my hand at breeding them. So pull up the rose bushes to make way for more rabbit hutches, so to speak.

I'll still be visiting here to keep my green thumb in as I'll still have the 110g planted tank (it's too deep for fancy goldfish anyway, too much pressure). It's going to be a conglomeration of all the three tanks put together (eg the Buddha with the sandstone wall etc), but I know that sort of non-natural aquascaping isn't very popular here so I won't be posting updates. If I do, I'll start a new thread. Because this thread is dead - long live this thread! 

So thank you all again so much for being a part of my planted tank experiences over the past year!


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## TheOtherGeoff (Feb 11, 2003)

quiet frankly i have enoyed this thread and find it amazing how far youve come in just one year. shows if you put time, effort and alittle extra money into it you get amazing results.


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## StUk_In_AfRiKa (Jan 30, 2005)

Aww it's a shame to see the tanks go. I do hope that you update us on how the planted tank comes along though, I love your scaping style (I also wanted to stick a Buddha in my tank but couldn't find a small enough one  )


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