# Hair Algae is driving me crazy!



## Christine T (May 4, 2008)

:help:
I planted my tank in the beginning of September. Since then I've had GSA (prob due to the light originally being on for 12 hours a day, it's slowly going away), staghorn (this is pretty much gone, once i started using the Excel i noticed a difference), and Hair Algae (don't think it's Oedogonium, it's more fuzzy and short). I cannot seem to get rid of the hair algae. My Cabomba was a hair algae magnet, but I didn't like the plant anyway, so I just took it all out yesterday. However, now I've noticed some Hair Algae on my Sunset Hygro and Asian Ambulia (both new plants, and there was no algae on them when I got them, they were very healthy). These two plants are just starting to have some hair algae, but i don't want them to become over taken like the Cabomba.

30 gallon, long tank
Temp: 76F
Filter: AC50
Lights: Coralife T5 series, one 21w colormax full-spectrum and one 21w 6700Kplant lamp, on for 9 hours per day
Substrate: 2 bags of Eco Complete and 1 bag of Flourite
Bubble wall
Ferts: Flourish and Excel twice a week
30% water change once a week-I've increased these to two 30% changes this week and prob next week b/c I had a fish die of Dropsy (maybe related to the hundreds of empty snail shells hiding in a group of plants by the filter :icon_redf)
Fish: 1 Rainbow Shark, 7 Dwarf Neon Rainbow, 6 Ottos.

Is there any way to get rid of Hair Algae? I've read a lot of people on here who say it's best to get the tank stable and figure out what's wrong, rather than just be concerned with getting rid of the algae. So I've been trying to do that, and the GSA and Staghorn are going away, but the Hair Algae is a thorn in my side


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

I think you need to be providing CO2 for that much light. Don't underestimate the brightness of T5 lights. With that much light you need to provide all of the nutrients, especially carbon (CO2) in sufficient quantities to meet the plants needs. Otherwise they don't grow well enough to inhibit the algae from starting. Excel is a good source of carbon, but not effective enough for that much light.


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## Christine T (May 4, 2008)

What about if I increase the Excel dosing to every other day, would that help?

I didn't really want to get into co2, but if I have to, I'm sure I can figure out a DIY system.


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## Natty (Apr 2, 2008)

Christine T said:


> What about if I increase the Excel dosing to every other day, would that help?
> 
> I didn't really want to get into co2, but if I have to, I'm sure I can figure out a DIY system.


Yeah....T5s give out a lot of light and I think Flourish excel only helps just so much. You probably either have to reduce lighting or pump co2 into there to keep it up. I think one of the biggest issues in the tank is inadequate amount of CO2 due to issues relating to flow, CO2 reaction, or simply not pumping in enough CO2.

Try lowering your light or partially diverge it's full power AWAY from your tank a bit. That'll help. Agreed with Hoppy, he definately knows :thumbsup:.

I'd go for pressurize, tried DIY and it just wasn't my thing at all. I like to set it and forget it as much as possible and not have to deal with monthly changes.


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## Trio123 (Nov 5, 2008)

Not to hi jack your thread but I think it a follow up question that may be helpful to you once you add CO2. 

Had the same problem as this person and I added pressurized CO2 this weekend and started keeping my lights on for 7 hours. Before I got the CO2 I had mechanically removed as much as I could and blacked out the tank four days and reduced the light to 3 hours a day to keep the algae at bay. Now that I added light again and CO2 the algae is coming back, not as explodively as before but bad enough (it's on every plant). So now what? Like his Cabomba my Rotala is a magnet to the stuff but I am not willing the throw out the prettiest plant in my tank :icon_sad:

There are lots of bubbles on my plants (I assume oxygen) and the drop checker is green so I think Im doing it right.


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## Aquarist_Fist (Jul 22, 2008)

CO2 in, algae out.  You should also note that while Flourish is not a bad fertilizer, you are not dosing any macro nutrients. You may want to look into dry fertilizers (are cheaper, too).


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

Yep, add some CO2, that'll really help.

Also, suck some Excel up in a syringe and squirt it on the algae. Then get some Amano Shrimp. The algae will die off (eventually) and the Amano Shrimp will eat (some of) it:thumbsup:


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## Trio123 (Nov 5, 2008)

Well good luck, Christine. With the CO2, Excel, and Amano shrimp (if you can get some) you should be able to get rid of it. 

I just wouldnt expect the CO2 to be a cure all (at least not for hair algae).

I personally cant use Excel because of my Vallisneria or Amano shrimp because of my African Knife. I will probably have to give my plants a light bleach dip or toss them and start over 

I share your hatred of the hair algae, grrrrr


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## Christine T (May 4, 2008)

Thanks for the advise everyone. I'm working on setting up a DIY CO2 (the pressurized might need it's own savings fund lol).

Trio, thanks for the warning. I can't have the shrimp either, I think my shark would snack on them. But I might try dosing the excel directly onto the algae.



> CO2 in, algae out. You should also note that while Flourish is not a bad fertilizer, you are not dosing any macro nutrients. You may want to look into dry fertilizers (are cheaper, too).


Thanks for pointing this out, as a noob I probably wouldn't have thought of it.


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## Tex Gal (Mar 28, 2008)

Christine- you also mentioned a bubble wall. Bubble oxygenate the water. Too O2 forced in the water can drive your CO2 out of the water. I would give up your bubble wall. It's gonna work against your CO2.

Remember the trick is to balance all things. Macro nutrients (nitrogen, potassium and phosphorus) & trace elements (minerals like magnesium, calcium, boron and iron) + light + carbon source (CO2 or Excell) = Good plant growth. With all the plants using all the nutrients faster than the algae can it will not grow. 

It can take 2 weeks for algae to begin to grow up if something gets out of balance. It can equally take longer to disappear. Get your balance and maintain it. That's the trick.


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## Christine T (May 4, 2008)

> Christine- you also mentioned a bubble wall. Bubble oxygenate the water. Too O2 forced in the water can drive your CO2 out of the water. I would give up your bubble wall. It's gonna work against your CO2.


Thanks, yeah I remembered reading about this. I'll turn the bubble wall off while the light is on. However, since I'm using a DIY system and can't turn off the CO2, I'm going to turn the bubble wall on at night to make sure the fish don't suffocate.

Yeah I'm trying to work on the whole balance issue. I just ordered some dry ferts, macro and micro. So hopefully, with some patience, I'll figure out the balance of my tank.

Question about the dry ferts though, do I have to mix them with RO water? And.......what is RO water??? :redface:, is it the same a bottled water?


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

You can dose the dry fertilizers dry. I used to just use tiny measuring spoons to dip up a little spoonful and dump it in the tank. No problems as a result.

Another way, which is more work, but some people prefer it, is to dip up a cup of water from the tank, dissolve the fertilizer in it, and dump that in the tank. That keeps you from obsessing over fish nibbling at the grains of chemicals.

And, for me, the easiest way, which I now use, is to buy a couple of these bottles: http://oregonaquadesign.vstore.ca/product_info.php/pName/16oz-fertilizer-bottle/cName/containers. These hold 16 ounces of liquid, and you squeeze the bottle to push one ounce into the little chamber at the top, so you just dump that much into the tank. So, for one ounce dosages, the bottle contains 16 doses. Just add 16 times the amount of dry fertilizer for one dose to the bottle, fill it with tap water, shake it up, and use that to dose. I use one for traces and one for macro nutrients.


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## Christine T (May 4, 2008)

Thanks for the explanation, I thought that I would need to mix a large amount of the ferts, I didn't know you could just add them straight to the tank or just mix one dose at a time.

I saw those bottles on the site I ordered my ferts from. They looked like a good idea. I'm going to see if I can find some locally.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

I am having a similar problem. I broke my tank down, since I had put some vege ferts in the substrate. Most of the hair algae attached the Rotala Rotunda and Bacopa Carolina. I just had a little hair algae on the Hygro sunset. Next day I am replanting and adding diy Co2. If algae rebounds I will start adding KNO3, for read many keep algae under control with it.


Here are some links for diy Co2:
http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aquaria/diyco2.html#3
http://www.youtube.com/user/slntsteve



I found little diffusers can be bought on EBay for $5. uncertain if they work with diy system though. Something I plan of experimenting with soon.


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## Christine T (May 4, 2008)

I used the first link you posted, and this one also
http://beginneraquarist.petfish.net/Beginner%20Aquarist/DIY%20Blog/AB02EF45-2DEF-48E3-977F-79FF8BF0BE73.htmll



> I found little diffusers can be bought on EBay for $5. uncertain if they work with diy system though. Something I plan of experimenting with soon.


To get the CO2 into the tank, I ran the tubing into my powerhead, then i put a small sponge on the output of the powerhead (just big enough to cover the output). The sponge helped to break up the CO2 a little more, and it also cut down the current of the powerhead, so my plants weren't flying all over. Now I can see tiny CO2 bubbles all over my tank.

Today I'm going to pick up another small powerhead and hook up a DIY CO2 on the other side of my tank. This will hopefully help with circulation, and with more even CO2.


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## alexpk321 (Oct 27, 2008)

I have had hair algae and black beard algae in a big way on my planted 10g. I reduced my photo period from 10 hours to 9, but I think it's more complicated that that, I think it is maybe due to fluctuating CO2 levels, me not quite having gotten the hang of when to replenish my DIY CO2 canisters - I am using 1 liter bottle with 1 cup sugar and 1/2 tsp yeast (which I activate before adding) - I was replacing every 10 days, but now going to every 7. This is the Red Sea system with the power venturi. The tank uses 2 15W flourescent bulbs (never have been able to find appropriate wattage for a 10 g in a compact set-up, so I just use 2 regular lamps). 

I did want to share something about how to get rid of hair algae after if forms. I pulled the plants out individually, brought them to the sink, and went leaf by leaf gently rubbing the algae off with an old toothbrush. It seems to have worked well - the plants look great again (at least for now). While I'm at it I trim the roots (so as not to injure them during re-planting. 

Now I guess this wouldn't work with delicate plants like some Rotala, but on those it doesn't seem to grow sprouting off the leaf surface anyway, more on those I remove it simply by passing my finger in between the stalks and just pulliing it out as a strings. The plants I used the toothbrush on were Java ferns, Anubias, and bamboos - i.e. sturdy, broad leaf plants. 

Now I know a lot of people would say this is crazy, to pull plants up in order to brush algae off them with a toothbrush, but it seems to have worked and the plants don't appear to have suffered any ill effects. I will say with more innocuous forms of algae I just rub the leaves with my fingers in the tank, leaving the plants in place, but of course with hair algae, or bba, that isn't going to work. 

Eventually I suppose I'll master the balance and won't have so much algae, but for those who get backed into a corner, I offer this comment.


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## Christine T (May 4, 2008)

I haven't pulled plants out to get the algae off, though I have heard other people say they've done this. I do rub the leaves in the tank to take some of it off though. I'm hoping the CO2 will help. Although I just pulled a bunch of steam plants, so i need to replace them asap. I also got my dry ferts and will start that sunday.


Alex, just a suggestion about the DIY Co2: I've been running two 2L bottles, (on a 30gal) and have heard that some people run 3. Basically I'm trying to stagger the bottles, so the tank has a consistent supply of Co2. So when I change bottle 1, my other bottle is still good for a week or so, and when I change my second bottle the other bottle should be going good. If you just run one bottle, or run more than one but change them at the same time, the Co2 supply will go in a bell shaped curve, low at first, high in the middle, and then low at the end and beginning of the new bottle. Even if you change your one bottle before it runs out, the Co2 level will go down while the newly set up bottle is starting.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Nothing good comes quick in this hobby. You might think you have everything covered, or you add one thing like CO2, and STILL have or get some new algae.

There is no guarantee, but if you hang in there and give it time without switching everything around every couple of weeks your tank might find balance after all, with little algae and lots of plants.

Recently I had BBA in my 10gal tank, even though I THINK most of the things that make plants grow are provided. I didn't really do anything about it except for giving it a few weeks. And sure enough, it is all clean now! This doesn't work with all algae, but staghorn and some hair algae are other good examples.

In short, don't expect immediate results when you change something, like adding CO2. Changed conditions sometimes provide a good environment for new algae, but after a while, everything settles in and plants take over again.


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## alexpk321 (Oct 27, 2008)

good idea Christine about having 2 bottles and staggering them - or one would even start a bottle a day or two before a change and just switch it out. I've read others who say a few days of falling CO2 isn't going to make a difference, that it's the long big swings in CO2 that give the advantage to algae (don't know!) but staggering is a good idea. 

Of course if one uses the Red Sea system it's not quite so easy. The connections on these bottles are very tight, I have to twist the gas line at the check valve to separate mine. Also, I really DON'T like the amount of current that these systems introduce, plus the CO2 tube is made of some special black material which I don't know what it is, plus it has a 5/16 " ID, which i don't find it easy to locate silicon tubing of that dimension. 

So I am planning to experiment with a sintered glass filter type CO2 system, and an everyday DIY bottle, and standard silicon airline tubing. In any case, using the Red Sea system I will go to every 7 days, which means a new mixture will be in place while CO2 is still in the 25 ppm range, so by the time it falls the new mixture will be kicking in. 

Another thing I really don't like about the Red Sea system is that if you put them on a timer (which is probably necessary in a 10 g tank) then in the morning when the power comes on, the venturi is frozen and you have to pull it up out of the tank and jiggle it until it kicks on, otherwise it will just sit there frozen all day. In my 20g I just let it run 24/7. 

These systems have a lot of weaknesses, but OTOH right now my plants look great - when I look in there I think... LIFE!!! so I am achieving the Dream and it is working. there is nothing like a clean, pristine aquarium

FWIW, I pulled out a Vallisneria last night and gave it the toothbrush scrub plus trimmed the roots, it is much cleaner but not 100% (that bba is very tenacious). While more difficult than a broad leaf plant (one has to basically lay the long narrow leaf along your finger), it did more or less work and I'm not seeing the fluffies now, and I'll see if it has any ill effects on the plant, but I think it's fine and the plant will be "glad" to not have it's leaves covered with algae. 

Christine, what composition are you using in your 2L bottles? I've been using 1 L water, 1 cup sugar, and 1/2 tsp yeast for a 10g. I chose this because it appeared to be what Red Sea was providing in their kit. It's lasts 7-10 days. But I've seen people double the sugar, and claim to get 2 weeks of CO2. I let the system run about 13 hours a day. I tried letting it go 24/7 but in a 10g it quickly produced levels of about 37 ppm, so I went back to using a timer. From what I've ready anything about 25-30 ppm is getting hazardous.


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## Christine T (May 4, 2008)

I use 2L bottles, 1/2 tsp of yeast, and 2 cups of sugar. I've been told this will last about 3 weeks. I plan on changing each bottle at 2-2.5 weeks, this way I'll change them out before they run out.

Basically, when you do what you've done with your mix (add more yeast but less sugar) the yeast eats up the sugar faster-it's supposed to give good Co2 output, but not last as long. Though I've read that some people use extra yeast and then change their bottles once a week. That seems a bit tiresome though lol.

This is how I mix it, my first two bottles, worked from the start (After I get the mix into the bottle, i leave the bottle with the cap on it [no hole in the cap] for a little while to get some gas build up):
1/2 tsp of yeast (out of the bulk Fleichman’s 1kg can - it makes a difference, I didn’t get much success using yeast out of the smaller glass jars or packets)
2 cups of sugar

Drop the yeast into about 1/2 cup warm (<110F) water and allow to sit for five minutes to ensure it is live (it will foam). Then mix it up well. In the meantime, combine the sugar with about two cups of hot water and mix until dissolved. It helps to do this in a cup measure that has a pour spout. Pour the sugar water into the 2L bottle. Then fill it up partially with cool water. Add the yeast mixture. Then fill the bottle with water until it reaches the point where the bottle starts to taper. Any fuller and it could foam over and get into your tank.
From: http://beginneraquarist.petfish.net/Beginner%20Aquarist/DIY%20Blog/AB02EF45-2DEF-48E3-977F-79FF8BF0BE73.html




> Nothing good comes quick in this hobby. You might think you have everything covered, or you add one thing like CO2, and STILL have or get some new algae.


Agreed, I've learned that patience is a necessity. Since I've added the DIY Co2 (2 bottles one week apart), I then started dry ferts on Sunday, and will be getting in some steam plants this week. After they are in, I plan on giving the tank about a month to see how things go. I'm thinking that I _might_ need to add a 3rd bottle of Co2, but I want to get the tank used to the ferts and Co2 before I make any more changes.


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## alexpk321 (Oct 27, 2008)

Christine T said:


> Agreed, I've learned that patience is a necessity. Since I've added the DIY Co2 (2 bottles one week apart), I then started dry ferts on Sunday, and will be getting in some steam plants this week. After they are in, I plan on giving the tank about a month to see how things go. I'm thinking that I _might_ need to add a 3rd bottle of Co2, but I want to get the tank used to the ferts and Co2 before I make any more changes.


Christine, I did once try using 1/4 tsp of yeast with the 1L water, but I did not get CO2 production at any significant level. It certainly could have been a leak in the system, and I've never been motivated to try it again. 

My procedures are similar to yours, but I let the yeast sit in water of no higher than 102 F for 10 minutes to activate. The time I got no production I let it go to 110 F, and on the chance that killed the yeast I've kept it lower since then (but I've read plenty of people who use the higher temperature). I also pre-heat the vessel I mix the yeast in so I don't get a big drop in temperature of the water when I add it to the yeast. I vigorously mix the water/sugar and add this yeast by simply pouring it in, then I gently shake for mixing and wah-lah. I use Red Star or Fleischmann's yeast in the little envelopes. 

Of course now the colder weather is here, it's colder in the house, and thus the reactor is at a lower temperature (67 F in my house v. 70-80+ during summer months). I still get good CO2 production, so I haven't worried about that either. 

I agree with both of you about patience. Not only that, but even though there are some absolutes, for whatever reason what works in one person's set up doesn't always and necessarily work just the same way in another person's set-up. 

Nevertheless, this hobby has always strongly held my interest and since starting with the wonders achievable with RO water, and achieving lush plant growth with CO2 fert, I am more fascinated than ever. The greatest thing about this hobby is that the possibilities for learning about and observing Nature are simply endless. 

here's the best treatise on CO2 supplementation I've found...

http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aquaria/diyco2.html


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## Aquarist_Fist (Jul 22, 2008)

None of this extra work with the yeast is necessary as long as basic conditions are met. Yeast, sugar, some warm water, and some baking soda. Stir, connect, done. The only thing I do is use dechlorinated water, but only because I usually have it ready when changing bottles.


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