# My plants are hairy, my driftwood is growing a beard



## banderbe (Oct 10, 2005)

And, to top it off, my eco-complete substrate is growing a couple small spots of what I guess is BGA.

I know the "new" conventional wisdom. Oh, I must be deficient in something. Well, I'm not.

Tom Barr says turn up your Co2. I have. Fish have died. My plants pearl like mad.

All in all I think my tank looks pretty good, especially given that this is my first planted tank, and given that it's only been up and running for a little over a month.

Nevertheless, I have a bit of algae.

The hair algae seems to have come in on some Ludwigia repens x arcuata. It only seems to affect the oldest leaves on my plants. The top 3/4 of the plants look good- great in fact. However the narrow leaf java fern has hair on almost all of its leaves if you look closely, plus tufts of BBA here and there. It's attached to the driftwood which is growing little tufts of BBA so it figures I guess. The surface of my eco complete grows a few spots of what I guess is BGA. My glass also ends up with a faint layer of green dust algae by the end of the week. So, I clean, I prune, and I turn over the soil that has the BGA on it, and I change the water. Within a few days the BGA starts back, and always in the same area on the substrate, and the hair algae never goes away completely.

My nitrates are between 10 and 20 ppm. My CO2 is well over 30 ppm using the new "degass method" and the old CO2 chart which says my CO2 is over 80 ppm. My PO4 is around 2 ppm.

I was dosing as follows:

Sunday: 50% wc, 1/4 tsp KNO4, 1/16 tsp K2SO4, 1/16 KH2P04.
Monday: 15 mL Plantex CSM+B ( 1 Tbsp. per 250 mL water )
Tues: same dose as Sunday
Wed: same as monday
Thurs: same as Tues
Fri: same as wed
Sat: Nothing

Well after a month of that routine my nitrates were at or above 30ppm and my PO4 was between 5 and 10 ppm.

Since I had suffered these algae issues pretty much from day one I thought maybe I could back off the PO4 down to 1 to 2 ppm, and I wanted my Ludwigia to be more RED so I thought I could back nitrates down to around 10 ppm.

So last week I tested, and skipped macros all week, only dosing micros.

Sunday I did a water change, and tested again. Nitrates are around 10 and PO4 is around 2 ppm.

Monday skipped macros again, today dosed micros. Tomorrow I will test again and probably return to an EI based dosing routine, albeit in much smaller quantities than before.

One thing I noticed is that today the BGA spots are already back, and in the past they took a day or two longer to appear. 

Anyway I don't know what to do to get rid of the hair algae. The BBA and BGA I can tolerate. It's minor and easily turned back into the soil and rubbed off the driftwood. It's not really spreading or growing.

It's really the hair algae. It's SO ugly!!!!! And microscopic particulates from the soil when you stir it up get stuck in the hair so the lower leaves look all dirty. It's just awful.

Other stats on my tank:

Tank is 29 Gal.
10 hour photo period of 65W with a 3 hour "mid-day" period of 130W.
Pressurized CO2, about 3 bubbles per second.
Big honkin' 2 foot, 2" diameter "rex" style reactor.
My water has a GH of 22, a little over half of which is from Calcium, the other half from Magnesium (City water report)

So.. I think I have all my bases covered.

I've been typing for a while now so I'll go a little longer. Sometimes I have been thinking about planted aquaria, thinking of the eye-popping tanks I have seen that are just so stunning and beautiful. Clearly there is more to growing aquatic plants that are algae free than "Keep up your nutrients and Co2!" Sorry but that sounds like a formulaic prescription that everyone repeats but plenty of folks do that and their plants don't look *anything* like the plants you see in some of the more well known aquarists tanks. So clearly there's more to this hobby than just lots of fertilizer and CO2. You see some folks talk about "balance" and about various ratios of N to P, etc. Then others say that it doesn't matter as long as nothing is limiting. Man there are SECRETS being kept by the gurus in this hobby because there's just more to it than "more ferts and CO2". I can dump ferts and Co2 into my tank until I am blue in the face and sure, my plants look good. Nothing award winning though, and the f***ing algae just hangs around. The idea of a 3 day blackout turns my stomach.

I could rant on this much more but I will stop. Share your thoughts, feelings, criticisms, advice, whatever.


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## Ryzilla (Oct 29, 2005)

YOu know the EI works differently for all people. I have a 30g and followed the EI strictley. In doing so my nitrates would get to high and I would get a fuzz algea bloom. I dont have enough "fast" growers in my tank to outcompete for the nitrates, so I have resorted to half of the nitrate dosage. It is really a game to finely tune the EI to fit the parameters of an individual tank. The EI is just a guidline and is not the end all. I have been tweaking the EI for about 2 1/2 months and I still have been battling algea. I sometimes get frustrated but I know that through the maturation of my tank a balance point will be established and I will know the demands of my plants. Just keep your head up and dont give up. The final product of a succesful tank seems so awarding and through your headships like this one the lessons will be learned to give you that success.

Peace,
Ry


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## mrbelvedere (Nov 15, 2005)

Well a little Maracyn will knock out the BGA. Other than that, I have no idea. Man, that is really disappointing, I always thought with proper dosing, light, CO2, etc everything could be avoided. Now I don't know what to believe. Give it a month, then throw a nice teardown it's way. That's the one thing I do not like about planted tanks. They aren't permanent. Unlike practically every other art form, it must be dismantled eventually. It might take 10 years, but it doesn't last. I am now officially jaded on planted tanks. Buy a new tank of different dimensions (possibly a 37), reuse the substrate, filter, some plants, hardscape, and CO2 equipment. Try a new aquascape. You can always improve. Add some cool new fish. I have a new fish appreciation now. A cool new fish can really make the hobby more appreciable. The fish become more important and the plants less so. That way you don't find yourself fretting over minor problems with the tank and instead focusing on "the pretty fish."


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## turbowagon (Dec 30, 2005)

Barry,

Funny, I started up my tank at pretty much the same time as you, with pretty much the exact same equipment, and I am in the exact same situation with algae. I felt like your post was written by me. Only difference is my water is a lot softer than yours.

Also, I stupidly uprooted all of my Blyxa Japonica a few days ago without doing a water change, and now I'm dealing with green water to boot. 

One thing I'm worried about is poor circulation. I'm also running a big honkin rex reactor with my Eheim 2213, and the water pressure isn't that great. I rearranged my spraybar and shortened the tubing a bit and I think I'm getting some better flow now. I've also discarded the plants with the most algae, and planted some more fast-growers.

Good luck, and let me know if you find the solution to our problem. :wink:


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## esarkipato (Jul 19, 2005)

> So clearly there's more to this hobby than just lots of fertilizer and CO2.


Sure there is. First, stability. Try to keep levels consistenty high enough, which it sounds like you are starting to level off.

Second, fast growers. you don't list any plants, except for the arcuata. I am amazed when people set up a new tank (i'm not accusing you here) full of tough but beautiful species and expect them to grow from day one! I say, throw a ton of anacharis and watersprite in there, let a jungle grow in, let things stabilize, then start aquascaping. So many things need to come into balance for the first months that it's not worth sacrificing expensive, rare plants!

third, cleanup crews. YOu also don't mention anything about your fish/invert stocking, let alone a feeding schedule. Get some true SAE's, ottos, and amano shrimp and your life will be a lot easier.

*edit* oh yea, fourth: patience. I've found most algae in teh first few months will subsize for no other reason than time itself.


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## banderbe (Oct 10, 2005)

esarkipato said:


> Sure there is. First, stability. Try to keep levels consistenty high enough, which it sounds like you are starting to level off.
> 
> Second, fast growers. you don't list any plants, except for the arcuata. I am amazed when people set up a new tank (i'm not accusing you here) full of tough but beautiful species and expect them to grow from day one! I say, throw a ton of anacharis and watersprite in there, let a jungle grow in, let things stabilize, then start aquascaping. So many things need to come into balance for the first months that it's not worth sacrificing expensive, rare plants!
> 
> ...



My tank contains maybe 50 stems of Rotala "indica" (or rotundifolia, who knows?), a handfull of mayaca fluviatalis, a narrow leaf java fern, alternanthera reineckii (sp?), the ludwigia, also bacopa caroliniana, plus two C. wendtii's.

I would describe it as between moderate to heavily planted. Maybe I just need more plants but I am running out of room for background plants. Maybe I could do more foreground crypts. I also haven't started a carpet yet. Tried HC and it was rapidly overcome by alage.


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## banderbe (Oct 10, 2005)

turbowagon said:


> Barry,
> 
> Funny, I started up my tank at pretty much the same time as you, with pretty much the exact same equipment, and I am in the exact same situation with algae. I felt like your post was written by me. Only difference is my water is a lot softer than yours.
> 
> ...


I wondered about circulation too, and it does seem odd the location of the BGA spots. Sort of near the middle of the tank where there's probabaly not tremendous flow.

I have my Filstar XP2 spray bar running vertical in the rear left corner of my tank. The holes point along the left side wall, and seem to do a pretty good job of creating a swirling flow around the tank. But I don't know, maybe I will try a small powerhead.

I will definitely post back here if I get this stuff under control. I have also been toying with the idea of a light treatment of hydrogen peroxide to wipe out the hair/thread/fuzz.


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## banderbe (Oct 10, 2005)

mrbelvedere138 said:


> Well a little Maracyn will knock out the BGA. Other than that, I have no idea. Man, that is really disappointing, I always thought with proper dosing, light, CO2, etc everything could be avoided. Now I don't know what to believe. Give it a month, then throw a nice teardown it's way. That's the one thing I do not like about planted tanks. They aren't permanent. Unlike practically every other art form, it must be dismantled eventually. It might take 10 years, but it doesn't last. I am now officially jaded on planted tanks. Buy a new tank of different dimensions (possibly a 37), reuse the substrate, filter, some plants, hardscape, and CO2 equipment. Try a new aquascape. You can always improve. Add some cool new fish. I have a new fish appreciation now. A cool new fish can really make the hobby more appreciable. The fish become more important and the plants less so. That way you don't find yourself fretting over minor problems with the tank and instead focusing on "the pretty fish."


Yeah unlike some folks who call the fish bait, the fish for me are still the focus of my hobby.

Although once my RO unit arrives and I get to try some more advanced plants like L. "Pantanal" or Tonina sp. then maybe that will change. Those are some mighty beautiful plants but that's of course in the photos.

I sure as hell can't get my Rotala to look anything like the photos from the Rotala indica competition I saw on APC.


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## banderbe (Oct 10, 2005)

Ryzilla said:


> YOu know the EI works differently for all people. I have a 30g and followed the EI strictley. In doing so my nitrates would get to high and I would get a fuzz algea bloom. I dont have enough "fast" growers in my tank to outcompete for the nitrates, so I have resorted to half of the nitrate dosage. It is really a game to finely tune the EI to fit the parameters of an individual tank. The EI is just a guidline and is not the end all. I have been tweaking the EI for about 2 1/2 months and I still have been battling algea. I sometimes get frustrated but I know that through the maturation of my tank a balance point will be established and I will know the demands of my plants. Just keep your head up and dont give up. The final product of a succesful tank seems so awarding and through your headships like this one the lessons will be learned to give you that success.
> 
> Peace,
> Ry


That's my plan. I hope that with nitrates around 10 ppm, PO4 around 1 to 2, and sufficient K and micros, I will continue to see fantastic growth, more red in my red plants and less or NO algae.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

I started my 29 gallon tank with watersprite, water wisteria (H. difformis), ludwigia repens, and a few others. I let it grow until the tank was virtually full of weeds. I had lots of algae. So, I removed the dwarf swords I was intending to carpet with, most of the java fern, and all of the branches of the other plants which had lots of algae on them. I kept removing algae, using twirled toothbrush, my hands and my scissors. Then, I removed most of my java moss on the back cork wall, which was full of algae. The algae seemed to slow down finally. I upped the CO2 until the KH/PH measurements said I had over 100 ppm and increased the PO4 dosing. All of the GSA left, and the BBA left. Finally, the brown hairy stuff lessened to where I had to hunt to find any.

Then, just a couple of weeks ago I doubled my lighting, and added full CO2 misting using a powerhead and spray bar. Now, I am back to fighting more algae again. I'm not bored!!

Just hang in there and consider it a hobby, not an artistic pursuit. Once we learn the ropes and can consistently keep algae at bay we can try art.

Oh, and I am now slowly replacing my weeds with plants I want to look at.


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## banderbe (Oct 10, 2005)

Hoppy said:


> I started my 29 gallon tank with watersprite, water wisteria (H. difformis), ludwigia repens, and a few others. I let it grow until the tank was virtually full of weeds. I had lots of algae. So, I removed the dwarf swords I was intending to carpet with, most of the java fern, and all of the branches of the other plants which had lots of algae on them. I kept removing algae, using twirled toothbrush, my hands and my scissors. Then, I removed most of my java moss on the back cork wall, which was full of algae. The algae seemed to slow down finally. I upped the CO2 until the KH/PH measurements said I had over 100 ppm and increased the PO4 dosing. All of the GSA left, and the BBA left. Finally, the brown hairy stuff lessened to where I had to hunt to find any.
> 
> Then, just a couple of weeks ago I doubled my lighting, and added full CO2 misting using a powerhead and spray bar. Now, I am back to fighting more algae again. I'm not bored!!
> 
> ...


Yeah I would love to get into aquascaping but not until I can keep the algae away.


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## esarkipato (Jul 19, 2005)

cleaning fishes/shrimp?


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## banderbe (Oct 10, 2005)

esarkipato said:


> cleaning fishes/shrimp?


One SAE and three ottos, but I really don't like the idea of combating algae with fish.

I would rather figure out what allows the algae to grow in the first place and cut it off at the source.


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## banderbe (Oct 10, 2005)

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...a-competition-in-israel.html?highlight=rotala

Check out those pics of rotala.. why can't I do that? What's the secret? I mean those are some freaking gorgeous plants.


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## jrneuzil (Mar 4, 2005)

Wow. The tank is only a month old. Way to soon to think about scaping. Think the first two monty ought to be called Learn to Fert, or the Algae Wars. 
I think most of us have been through this. Your tank just needs more time. Keep CO2ing the crap out of it and keep the fert higher than you think they should be. You will get there. And that is a fair amount of light you got there. Not much room for error.

JR


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## mrbelvedere (Nov 15, 2005)

banderbe said:


> http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...a-competition-in-israel.html?highlight=rotala
> 
> Check out those pics of rotala.. why can't I do that? What's the secret? I mean those are some freaking gorgeous plants.



Photography, relentless nutrient control (especially iron and nitrates), and ridiculously powerful lighting. Also magic. Yes, magic is real. We've known about it for years.


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## MoonFish (Feb 12, 2006)

Isn't part of the magic setting up for that one special picture shoot?


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## bonklers (Oct 17, 2005)

*how familiar.........*

Hey banderbe,

When I was reading your first post, I thought this sounds familiar to me. After a few years keeping algae, I decided to try again with new plants, new driftwoods etc. Just to make sure no spores will come to the "new" setup. So I'm now in my fourth week the "new school" method, macro/micro, CO2 reactor, CO2 micro bubbles so forth and so on, I still get hair algae all over the place. The plants are pearling like mad (and growing), but so does the algae......... I think I know how you feel after cleaning/pruning the tank and do a large HC every week, just to see the algae coming back again after a couple of days. Starting all over again with new plants (and a lot of those) but still getting the same result, doesn't make me any happier.

So here's another vote for: "there's more to it than ferts and CO2".

There is a similarity between us though, I too have a high output lighting. But then again, I don't see any problems of having high lighting because I'm adding the ferts and CO2.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

One of the most frustrating things for me was going to higher lighting and a good CO2 mist system, with more circulation in the water - only to get stream algae growing good! Now, I have just about every type of algae except green water (knock on wood) - not bad, but enough to be discouraging. Even my pond snails have BBA tails!


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## mjproost (Feb 13, 2006)

That is really rough Barry. I am sorry. I battled algae for the first 6 or so months in this hobby also. Here are my thoughts on EI, your situation, etc....

The EI method was developed in the San Francisco Bay area if I am correct. If I am not mistaken the water there is nearly RO pure. Our water here in the Twin Cities is rock hard and probably contains countless other things we can't test for. BTW, the water out of my tap tests differently than the city water report and differently depending on the time of the day, etc. When I started this planted aquaria hobby I used pure RO(at the recommedation of WOF) and had nothing but problems. Then I started mixxing the water 50/50 tap/RO. Worked better, but I still had issues with algae and not the greatest growth. Now, I use 100% reconstituted RO to 5 KH and 5 GH. Now, all my tanks are virutally algae free using my own adaptation on EI. But, the water was not the only thing I changed. I am currently growing Tonina Belem, L. Cuba and Pantal There is hope. What I am saying is that maybe there is something in our water that throws the whole system off. Especially since your water is way harder than mine only 10-15 miles away. Or maybe just the total TDS of the water has more of an effect than previously thought. Did you get that RO unit, yet?

EI- From what I understand, EI is based on maximum uptake rates of plants. If for some reason your plants aren't using nutrients at their maximum rate, something will end up in excess. When I started EI, I tested levels just before every water change. I adjusted my dosing so I ended up on the high end of the optimum range at the water change. It took me about a month. Thats part of the reason why I prefer to make up a "standard solution" vs. dosing dry. I made up solutions of KNO3, KH2PO4, and K2SO4 that per EI I would dose 10 mls of it in a 20 gallon tank. Then after testing, I noticed I was little high on KNO3 so I now does 8 mls of the same solution. You get the idea, easier to adjust than trying to go from 1/8th teaspoon to 3/40th of a teaspoon. Also, I think stability is very helpful. Dosing to very high level one week and then not dosing the next week would not be optimum. At the MAS show you saw my tank at, I did not dose much at all for 3 days because without my normal CO2 levels I was worried about an algae outbreak. I definitely noticed a huge difference in the plants over that time. Prosperinaca, Hottonia and Zosterifolia got leggier and the lower leaves started to discolor, the Aromatica got paler, and the Glosso stretched upward a little. I don't see EI as a cure all for aquatic plant nutrition. I see it as a great starting point that Tom has put us on the right track to planted aquaria success. I give him full credit for my current success with plant nutrition. Now, I am starting to get the point of just looking at my plants I can tell what they need or don't. But, I can't do that on friends tanks because I don't know exactly what they have done. You have to adjust it to fit your exact needs. When you do, it is very rewarding. That is where the art and skill comes in. 

BTW- the dosing in all 6 of my planted tanks is a little different and now I only use K2SO4 in tanks where I dose very little KNO3.

Your GH is 22!! with more than half Mg? That could be an issue there, some people have been theorizing and testing that Ca/Mg should be in a 3:1 or 4:1 ratio for optimal growth. Basically that too high of a ratio of Mg limits uptake of Ca. I think I experienced that here, but the Ca/Mg ratio is not the only thing I changed. Did you get the RO unit?

Plantex CSM+B. Once again, I have no scientific hard data. But, I cannot get good growth with that stuff. If you compare labels between CSM and say Flourish, the Flourish contains a lot more micros than CSM. Maybe CSM depends on your water having or not having certain micros to work properly. Our water here probably doesn't have it or too much or something. I don't know for sure. But, I am currently using some CSM on a 10 gallon as a test to get a friend of mine to switch away from it. I will let you know how it goes. Let me know if you want to try some TMG, I will sell you some at what I paid for it, I buy it 5 liters at a time. It's about $5 for 500 mls. It would last you 2-3 months.

I know I asked you about this on another post, but I can't find it. What about lighting? What are you running? I have had strange algae issues with certain lighting.

When I first started out and had lots of algae problems, I ended up doing a bleach treatment on everything and starting over fresh. It worked pretty well and I only lost rotala Walachii and some Barclaya. You might want to think about doing that if the algae is bad. But, I have never tried that with Eco. 

You remark about the masters keeping secrets...Maybe, or maybe they just have a very large staff(Amano)! I think it is also that people overseas have certain slight advantages over us when it comes to equipment and supplies. Most of the tanks you see the top aquascapers(and the reg. people overseas)use are a better sized IMO for planted aqauria. Our tanks are based on how many tanks the manufacturer can fit out of a sheet of glass. They seem to have more selection of affordable lighting, and more nutreints and substrates available to them. Ours seemed to be based on wholesale agreements and distributor licenses. We can't even get Tropica here.

I hope that this helps!

p.s. My HC is starting to spread pretty well now and I have several algae free patches. I will give you a replacement patch when you get your algae issues straightened out.


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## banderbe (Oct 10, 2005)

mjproost said:


> That is really rough Barry. I am sorry. I battled algae for the first 6 or so months in this hobby also. Here are my thoughts on EI, your situation, etc....
> 
> The EI method was developed in the San Francisco Bay area if I am correct. If I am not mistaken the water there is nearly RO pure. Our water here in the Twin Cities is rock hard and probably contains countless other things we can't test for. BTW, the water out of my tap tests differently than the city water report and differently depending on the time of the day, etc. When I started this planted aquaria hobby I used pure RO(at the recommedation of WOF) and had nothing but problems. Then I started mixxing the water 50/50 tap/RO. Worked better, but I still had issues with algae and not the greatest growth. Now, I use 100% reconstituted RO to 5 KH and 5 GH. Now, all my tanks are virutally algae free using my own adaptation on EI. But, the water was not the only thing I changed. I am currently growing Tonina Belem, L. Cuba and Pantal There is hope. What I am saying is that maybe there is something in our water that throws the whole system off. Especially since your water is way harder than mine only 10-15 miles away. Or maybe just the total TDS of the water has more of an effect than previously thought. Did you get that RO unit, yet?
> 
> ...


I have suspected that there are things in our tap water causing issues we are unaware of.. so I did get an RO unit. Last week I did a 50% change with RO bringing my GH down to 11 and KH down to 9. Today I'm due for another change and will again use pure RO to bring me down to 5 or so GH, 4 or so KH. Then in the future I will supplement with baking soda and GH booster to keep those values.



> Your GH is 22!! with more than half Mg? That could be an issue there, some people have been theorizing and testing that Ca/Mg should be in a 3:1 or 4:1 ratio for optimal growth. Basically that too high of a ratio of Mg limits uptake of Ca. I think I experienced that here, but the Ca/Mg ratio is not the only thing I changed. Did you get the RO unit?


Well it's not more than half Mg, the ratio is about 3:2 Ca to Mg, but still it is a lot of Mg.



> Plantex CSM+B. Once again, I have no scientific hard data. But, I cannot get good growth with that stuff. If you compare labels between CSM and say Flourish, the Flourish contains a lot more micros than CSM. Maybe CSM depends on your water having or not having certain micros to work properly. Our water here probably doesn't have it or too much or something. I don't know for sure. But, I am currently using some CSM on a 10 gallon as a test to get a friend of mine to switch away from it. I will let you know how it goes. Let me know if you want to try some TMG, I will sell you some at what I paid for it, I buy it 5 liters at a time. It's about $5 for 500 mls. It would last you 2-3 months.


I'd definitely take you up on that offer, because honestly I've thought the same thing, that plantex probably isn't the best thing to use. I was going to try Flourish but I would be happy to give TMG a shot. Are you going to be at the next meeting?



> I know I asked you about this on another post, but I can't find it. What about lighting? What are you running? I have had strange algae issues with certain lighting.


I have 2x65W Coralife 6700k. I have a 10 hour photoperiod with about 3 hours mid-day where I have both lights on. The rest of the time only one is on. I have been thinking about just running them both for the full 10 hours. It seems counterintuitive but it seems that if I want plants outcompeting algae the way to do it is give them lighting to make their nutrient uptake faster.



> When I first started out and had lots of algae problems, I ended up doing a bleach treatment on everything and starting over fresh. It worked pretty well and I only lost rotala Walachii and some Barclaya. You might want to think about doing that if the algae is bad. But, I have never tried that with Eco.


The algae is under control, it just won't go away completely but I have been overdosing Excel and today is day 7.. things look better but I haven't done a close inspection yet.. 



> I hope that helps!
> 
> p.s. My HC is starting to spread pretty well now and I have several algae free patches. I will give you a replacement patch when you get your algae issues straightened out.


Well hopefully the patch you gave me will take off but it's not really doing much with the tank in its current state. I also think HC likes way more light than what I am giving it currently.

Thanks for all your help Matt!


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## mjproost (Feb 13, 2006)

> I'd definitely take you up on that offer, because honestly I've thought the same thing, that plantex probably isn't the best thing to use. I was going to try Flourish but I would be happy to give TMG a shot. Are you going to be at the next meeting?


Maybe, I leave on vacation at 9:00 am Friday. So, I am not sure. But, if not we can work something out. I will PM you Wednesday if I am going to the meeting or not.



> I have suspected that there are things in our tap water causing issues we are unaware of.. so I did get an RO unit. Last week I did a 50% change with RO bringing my GH down to 11 and KH down to 9. Today I'm due for another change and will again use pure RO to bring me down to 5 or so GH, 4 or so KH. Then in the future I will supplement with baking soda and GH booster to keep those values.


sounds good, thats what I do.



> I have 2x65W Coralife 6700k. I have a 10 hour photoperiod with about 3 hours mid-day where I have both lights on. The rest of the time only one is on. I have been thinking about just running them both for the full 10 hours. It seems counterintuitive but it seems that if I want plants outcompeting algae the way to do it is give them lighting to make their nutrient uptake faster.


Should be good lights. Maybe try extending the midday burst, first. Try one new thing at a time. So, you know what works. It doesn't seem counterintuitive to me. I think the EI system was based on a 20 gallon with 130 watts of light.



> The algae is under control, it just won't go away completely but I have been overdosing Excel and today is day 7.. things look better but I haven't done a close inspection yet..


Cool! Makes me think more light might help even more.



> Well hopefully the patch you gave me will take off but it's not really doing much with the tank in its current state. I also think HC likes way more light than what I am giving it currently.


Probably, I have it in a 20 gallon long with 130 watts of 8800K PC's on a 11 hour photoperiod. Those tall tanks can be tough for foreground plants.

Talk to you soon!


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