# TC420 to control fish room lighting



## O2surplus (Jan 31, 2010)

Search Fleabay for this-"Double BTS7960B DC 43A Stepper Motor Driver H-Bridge PWM" It's a little overkill, but they're 1/3 the cost of the BlueFish Power dimmer. They're meant to be used as a motor controller, but they'd also work just fine with led strips. 27Volt capable with 43 amps worth of current. Combine a few of them with a BluFish Mini, Arduino, or other 3.3/5V Micro-controller to do Sunrise/Sunset dimming and you'dd be all set.


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## Kampo (Nov 3, 2015)

O2surplus said:


> Search Fleabay for this-"Double BTS7960B DC 43A Stepper Motor Driver H-Bridge PWM" It's a little overkill, but they're 1/3 the cost of the BlueFish Power dimmer. They're meant to be used as a motor controller, but they'd also work just fine with led strips. 27Volt capable with 43 amps worth of current. Combine a few of them with a BluFish Mini, Arduino, or other 3.3/5V Micro-controller to do Sunrise/Sunset dimming and you'dd be all set.


AWESOME thanks o2 i was trying to find something like this. I figured there had to be something.

I'm going to PM you about an idea no point clogging this thread up with it.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Using the TC-420 as a pwm feeding the base of a larger MOSFET is another option I assume..
Your power handling is as big as the new one can take..
You'd reverse the ground though..Like this:
https://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/threads/complete-newbie-needs-help-w-mosfet-design.118295/
you can use either the orig. gate pulse to avoid that though..and be able to use a large NPN MOSFET
Connecting high power LEDs to the TC420
Doing that the TC-420 IS the Aduino..PWM frequency is around 900Hz..


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## Kampo (Nov 3, 2015)

jeffkrol said:


> Using the TC-420 as a pwm feeding the base of a larger MOSFET is another option I assume..
> Your power handling is as big as the new one can take..
> You'd reverse the ground though..Like this:
> https://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/threads/complete-newbie-needs-help-w-mosfet-design.118295/
> ...


I'm actually leaning towards just getting a bluefish mini or a HurcaneX atleast now. The module o2 mentioned really makes that work so much better. I sent o2 a message about maybe just comboing the whole deal with one of his controllers he has been working on but not sure if there ready for prime time. Have about 20 tanks with rigid led strips (about 500 watts worth) in the fishroom to control. then 3 other display tanks in the basement that i'm hoping to DIY some lights using LDDH drivers.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Any of these can easily control multiple LDD's per channel..or almost any low level "gate"..
I guess it depends on your end game..
If you want all strips (certain series) to go on all at once those large power handling "switches" are nice..

I guess you just need to be aware at the limitations..All or nothing.
You can achieve the same thing w/ multiple "small" switches which.. eventaully could be controlled independently..









10/$5... and can handle 10 amps each..
Control them all w/ the same PWM output or split each off.. 

Either way works.. 



> I really wanted most tanks to have there own channel or atleast not have to have a tank on multiple channels on a tc420. but the 48 watt limitation is going to really suck for the 75 gallon + tanks in the room since they will be over that.


There is no such limit to a tc-420. Either jumper off the "aduino like" part (giving you a 5v pwm output) or use larger MOSFETS ( a$2 addition)..
NOT trying to talk you into one, just stating your assumption is incorrect.

Like I said the "limitation" isn't that limiting..w/ a few $'s in parts..
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/20-diy/980633-how-use-tc-420-control-ldd-drivers.html
now the software and program limitations is another story..


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## Kampo (Nov 3, 2015)

jeffkrol said:


> Any of these can easily control multiple LDD's per channel..or almost any low level "gate"..
> I guess it depends on your end game..
> If you want all strips (certain series) to go on all at once those large power handling "switches" are nice..
> 
> ...


I guess i was looking for an easy way to do it without soldering on a PCB board. i was trying to keep within the 4amp per channel rated limitation of the TC420. is there enough overhead to the unit where I don't need to worry about that within reason?


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

First this is the soldering you hav to do to turn the TC-420 into a 5V PWM signal (only needed 4 outputs w/ this one).









If you don't want to do that AND exceed the power threshold you just need larger MOSFETS..









See top.. Now this was done not to increase power handling but to "invert" the ground since the TC-420 "pulses" the negative side.
This wouldn't have worked to dim "channels" on a modified Finnex planted plus (turned the light into a 3 channel controllable fixture, long story,Finnex was neg ground)

Point is that using larger than what is inside MOSFETS you can control anything.
THE catch.. you need to invert the MOSFET . Internal is an NPN (positive gate).. the external signal (no wiring) of the TC-420 gives you a negative signal for the gate..
so you need PNP Mosfets ) pretty sure one could also do this w/ power transistors but MOSFETS were the easiest,
PNP Mosfets are "inferior" to NPN and finding large ones is a bit costly (well more so than NPN at least) and something to do w/ less efficiency so heat sinking may be required..
Need a bigger geek than me for that..

Point is you can "free wire" a MOSFET and resistor.. Your "gate" voltage can be anywhere from 9-24V..5 and under voltage doesn't work.
Note -10V gate..
https://www.sparkfun.com/datasheets/Components/General/FQP27P06.pdf
Best fit is using DC to determine "safe drain" at your voltage..
@ 10V over 10A...
7-8A @ 12v..roughly.. 84w


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

to clean up this a bit.. Whether you go "modified" TC-420, Bluefish mini or Storm.. output will be 3.3-5V..
One can stick w/ the tc or upgrade controller eventually..

So either LDD's (need constant current strips) or large "switches" will be necessary..


> Specifications
> 
> Model Number: IRF520N HEXFET - NMOS
> Max Gate to Source Voltage: +/- 20V
> ...


nothing wrong w/ the O2 suggestion, though the need to "reverse" your voltage is unnecessary..  Though your single channel output wattage is phenomenal..  
Simple-H 20A, 5V to 28V DC Motor Driver - RobotShop

still w/ that one you are limited to a PWM control voltage of 2.5-5.5V..
http://www.robotshop.com/media/files/pdf/user-manual-s-h.pdf


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## Kampo (Nov 3, 2015)

ok i think i follow most of that.

back to o2's suggestion of the "Double BTS7960B DC 43A Stepper Motor Driver H-Bridge PWM"

as long as i feed it a 3.3-5v range PWM either thru a TC420 (modified) or other controller i'm good? or do I have to do some sort of voltage reversal wizardry your talking about?

really like the power handleing of the one o2 suggested. i'd prolly grab 2-3 and just put each rack on its own channel easier than individual tanks. my gut is leaning toard getting a stormx from steves led with 16 channels, reasoning being is I could wire up my fish room with a few channels, then pull a few cat 5s to each of my display tanks and each of them will get a few channels to use for there led control be it another "big switch" for a beamswork type light or a LDDH setup for high power leds with drivers. 

That said I am really curious of O2s controller, i like the idea of being able to access it from my phone like a bluefish, but with possibly more channels available.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Kampo said:


> back to o2's suggestion of the "Double BTS7960B DC 43A Stepper Motor Driver H-Bridge PWM"
> 
> as long as i feed it a 3.3-5v range PWM either thru a TC420 (modified) or other controller i'm good? or do I have to do some sort of voltage reversal wizardry your talking about?
> 
> really like the power handleing of the one o2 suggested


no, no wizardry is needed.. except to wire it correctly.. 
Ask O2 for clarification on wiring..

The H bridge (as I understand it) is simply to reverse polarity of the output voltage.. You know turn a dc motor forward,backward..
If you drive those strips "backward" w/ enough voltage they will fry.. Shouldn't be a problem w/ 12V though.

Need to clarify.. Thing aren't always as easy as I assume.. 

That one I posted has enough diagrams/data to figure it out.. Same bridge chips as the O2 one.. mostly exactly the same circuitry AFAICT.. but $50.. 









Not sure why you can't use a single MOSFET or transistor /mosfet (back to the voltage reversal thing) but it is on a spiffy board w/ connectors.. 
In its most basic form as long as your "signal" is positive NPN Mosfet...









starlight: Dimming a 12V LED strip with a mosfet and PWM
http://component.iiic.cc/index.php?...s_id=1574638&gclid=CI_npO3az9MCFca1wAodry0J6A
Needless to say, either work.

Note: Things aren't always as straight forward as I picture them.. but close most of the time.. 



> Mounting Type	Through Hole
> FET Type	MOSFET N-Channel, Metal Oxide
> Drain to Source Voltage (Vdss)	60V
> Current - Continuous Drain (Id) @ 25° C	40A
> ...


48 cents in 100 lot quantities..


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## Kampo (Nov 3, 2015)

so been researching what your going into. and came accross this. semi unrelated but guessing the internal circuits are essentially a mosfet based setup. but 30 amps power, designed for leds and from what i understand its essentially designed to take a full power signal from a controller like a TC420 and allow you to add more led strips when you max out a channel

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/30A...er-Power-Amplifier-for-White/32770785678.html

thouhts? sounds like its designed to basically do what I want to do anyway. i've seen a few posts talking about using smaller versions of these with an arduino, so i'm guesing they may accept PWM signal directly if I later upgraded to a Stormx/bluefish...etc? just trying to keep it simlar. picture below was a wiring diagram for RGB strips but i'm guessing same applies for a single channel amp like above?


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Yea, sort of.. but if your main power supply is large enough there is no need to "amplify" anything.. The 60 cent (up to $2 and change) MOSFET is good enough..









One of these every 100W should be sufficient w/out over complicating things..
10 connected to one PWM "should" be fine as well..though this needs verification..










To be honest , there may be better and or larger MOSFETS available.. not really my forte.. I can steer but prefer not to drive.. 

https://arduinodiy.wordpress.com/2012/05/02/using-mosfets-with-ttl-levels/
https://www.sparkfun.com/datasheets/Components/General/RFP30N06LE.pdf
8A approx [email protected]


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## Kampo (Nov 3, 2015)

really like the cheapness and simplenss of those mpsfet switches now that i've done more research. problem comes is that from googling i've found lots of talk how the IRF520N is not designed for 3.3V/5V signal operation, and won't fully open so not suitable for loads much over 400ma unless driven by a 10V signal. really wish someone made something similar to that ready to go but with a Mosfet that is designed for a 3.3V/5V sign

also been chating with O2Surplus, and going to order one of his WEMOS based boards he designed for the pendent system. and just use it as the brains of the operation with SSLAC16 software to control the system. 1-3 channels for the fish room and the rest for other display tanks spread around the house.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Yea I noticed that too... then again why sell them for Aduinos??? 3.3 to 5v signal.. 
There are work arounds.. usually are.. 

Found plenty of low level driven MOSFETS w/ large current carrying capacity.. just not on a nice board..
oddly enough many have odd voltages.. like 2-4v or this one:
1.2.5V..
8A at 12V DC..
http://cdn.sparkfun.com/datasheets/Components/General/FQP30N06L.pdf

That said it is easy to drop the 5V to 3.5 by putting a normal diode in line...


> The voltage dropped across a conducting, forward-biased diode is called the forward voltage. Forward voltage for a diode varies only slightly for changes in forward current and temperature, and is fixed by the chemical composition of the P-N junction. Silicon diodes have a forward voltage of approximately 0.7 volts.


2 diodes in series would drop 5v to 3.6 approx..
Logic Level MOSFET Selector Guide
https://www.arcade-electronics.com/NTE-2986-p/nte-2986.htm


As I said.. just steering.. 
Besides I don't even know how much power you are looking at really..




> MOSFET breakout board module switch relay (15A, 60V) 3-outputs for Arduino/RPi


$11..
Uses this AFAICT:
http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/149/FQP30N06L-1009543.pdf
15A but you would only use one output..

Pretty sure somewhere on flea bay they have exactly what you need.. or close enough..

Oh and here is another wrinkle.. opto-isolated boards:


> Electronic Building Block MOSFET Switch IRF540 Isolated Power Module DC 9-100V


Basically it uses the logic level signal to light an led. This light triggers a transistor to conduct..The transistor feeds the gate voltage. EXACTLY how this is done is beyond my pay grade.
Point is you are no longer limited to 3.3v..


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## Kampo (Nov 3, 2015)

jeffkrol said:


> Yea I noticed that too... then again why sell them for Aduinos??? 3.3 to 5v signal..
> There are work arounds.. usually are..


I think its mainly because the idea of 60-80 watts of LED strips is silly for most people lol. granted its only 3-4 Meter long strips that get me to that level so maybe not that crazy? i dunno lol



> Found plenty of low level driven MOSFETS w/ large current carrying capacity.. just not on a nice board..
> oddly enough many have odd voltages.. like 2-4v or this one:
> 1.2.5V..
> 8A at 12V DC..
> ...


will need to do more research. could attack it from the other route and use one of the circuite to boost 3.3 to 10v pwm but not sure if thats the right way to go either. also i'm guessing the voltage off the board O2 is going to send me is 3.3v pwm he would need to confirm though.


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## sfshrimp (May 24, 2016)

Kampo said:


> so been researching what your going into. and came accross this. semi unrelated but guessing the internal circuits are essentially a mosfet based setup. but 30 amps power, designed for leds and from what i understand its essentially designed to take a full power signal from a controller like a TC420 and allow you to add more led strips when you max out a channel
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/30A...er-Power-Amplifier-for-White/32770785678.html
> 
> thouhts? sounds like its designed to basically do what I want to do anyway. i've seen a few posts talking about using smaller versions of these with an arduino, so i'm guesing they may accept PWM signal directly if I later upgraded to a Stormx/bluefish...etc? just trying to keep it simlar. picture below was a wiring diagram for RGB strips but i'm guessing same applies for a single channel amp like above?


How many tanks are going to be running lights independently? I have a feeling two lights would work with an arduino, but if you start to have more than 4 it's going to require some kind of IC to distribute the signals so you don't run out of pins. Maybe a 4017 chip with a 555 clock signal?


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Kampo said:


> I think its mainly because the idea of 60-80 watts of LED strips is silly for most people lol. granted its only 3-4 Meter long strips that get me to that level so maybe not that crazy? i dunno lol
> 
> 
> 
> will need to do more research. could attack it from the other route and use one of the circuite to boost 3.3 to 10v pwm but not sure if thats the right way to go either. also i'm guessing the voltage off the board O2 is going to send me is 3.3v pwm he would need to confirm though.



Added anwsers above..opto isolated boards..
See you can get plenty of "loode" MOSFETS that would fit the bill.
some of the small circuit boards you see could handle more power "if" they had added heat sinks ..
some have the correct MOSFET as well..

you are only talking 7A.. The small PWM dimmers handle 8A using a n310ad MOSFET which may be this..or a clone of it. 
ISL9N310AD3


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## Kampo (Nov 3, 2015)

sfshrimp said:


> How many tanks are going to be running lights independently? I have a feeling two lights would work with an arduino, but if you start to have more than 4 it's going to require some kind of IC to distribute the signals so you don't run out of pins. Maybe a 4017 chip with a 555 clock signal?


fish room has 16-20 tanks in the plan depending on the rack layout I ultimately decide on. not using an arduino, it was just a schematic that had parallels with the use case i had in mind. what i'm planning on now isn't a TC420. going with a WEMOS based controller with 16pwm outputs. O2 makes a bored for them. will run sslac16 to give me indepedent control of all 16 channels.

current plan is just split the outputs on a per rack bases (3 racks) but I might break it down further, since at the cost this controller is I might just go seperate controller for each tank now instead of pull ethernet cable to distribute the pwm signal to other rooms.


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## sfshrimp (May 24, 2016)

Kampo said:


> fish room has 16-20 tanks in the plan depending on the rack layout I ultimately decide on. not using an arduino, it was just a schematic that had parallels with the use case i had in mind. what i'm planning on now isn't a TC420. going with a WEMOS based controller with 16pwm outputs. O2 makes a bored for them. will run sslac16 to give me indepedent control of all 16 channels.
> 
> current plan is just split the outputs on a per rack bases (3 racks) but I might break it down further, since at the cost this controller is I might just go seperate controller for each tank now instead of pull ethernet cable to distribute the pwm signal to other rooms.


yea, sounds cool, thanks for clarifying. So is it 16-20 tanks x 3 colors also for the strips? You could make this with arduino, just might be different than how you might imagine or not worth the time and effort. Another quick ? - are all the tanks on individual schedules, or do they all ramp up at one time?


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## Kampo (Nov 3, 2015)

> MOSFET breakout board module switch relay (15A, 60V) 3-outputs for Arduino/RPi


that's the ticket right there good find!

Bump:


sfshrimp said:


> yea, sounds cool, thanks for clarifying. So is it 16-20 tanks x 3 colors also for the strips? You could make this with arduino, just might be different than how you might imagine or not worth the time and effort. Another quick ? - are all the tanks on individual schedules, or do they all ramp up at one time?


going to be all same color. basically going to be using 1M long Rigid strips or .5m rigid strips for shorter tanks.

debating how much i'll break it down I prolly 1 channel per rack and with individual control over the racks. I might make non growout tanks individually controlled. (breeding tanks and plant tanks, leaving my 10/20s that are for growing out fry on a single channel) dunno yet that's why I really like that the controller i'm using will give me options and is quiet reasonable price wise.

EDIT

Found this guy.








looks to be the ticket. 28A capacity 5 amps without a heatsink. data sheet for the mosfet on it shows should be good for 10amps at 3.3V so still more than enough. 1.95 shipped from china. ordering a few of em.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Another interesting one..

https://circuit.rocks/switch-drive-high-power-mosfet-trigger-module.html


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