# Is this Rhizoclonium? And what do I do?



## K Anderson

Ok so I can not figure out how to post the pictures I will try to describe it. It is growing on my plants at the top of the water. It is light brown and stringy and flowy. It is really slimly when you take it out. What I can find that looks close is Rhizoclonium on the James planted tank algae guide. It says that it is caused by low co2, poor flow and a lack of maintnace. I am pretty sure that my co2 is good, it is going at about 2-3 bps and the drop checker is very yellow. As far as flow I have the 2217 spray bar on the rt side going left and the c220 return on the left at about 45deg. going front/right and the algae seems to be flowing pretty well in the current so... As for maintance I do regular water changes and every thing looks great in the tank and none of the fish seem to be having problems. 

This is a 75 with 5 Discus, 12 lemon tetras, 1 rummy nose, 5 corries and 2 bn plecos. It has been set up for just over 6 mts. 

I tested every thing that I can test and the ph is about 6.4 (and we have REALLY hard water), ammonia is 0, nitrite is 0, and nitrate is about 40ppm. 

I noticed it about 2 months ago. It sucks right out when I change water but comes back in about a week. What can I do to get rid of it? If someone can explaine how to post pics I have some but it wants an address and they are on the computer not the web so I do not know what to do. Sorry for the length but I wanted to give as much information as I could. 

Thank you for any help you can give to help me git rid of this junk


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## inkslinger

K Anderson said:


> Ok so I can not figure out how to post the pictures I will try to describe it. It is growing on my plants at the top of the water. It is light brown and stringy and flowy. It is really slimly when you take it out. What I can find that looks close is Rhizoclonium on the James planted tank algae guide. It says that it is caused by low co2, poor flow and a lack of maintnace. I am pretty sure that my co2 is good, it is going at about 2-3 bps and the drop checker is very yellow. As far as flow I have the 2217 spray bar on the rt side going left and the c220 return on the left at about 45deg. going front/right and the algae seems to be flowing pretty well in the current so... As for maintance I do regular water changes and every thing looks great in the tank and none of the fish seem to be having problems.
> 
> This is a 75 with 5 Discus, 12 lemon tetras, 1 rummy nose, 5 corries and 2 bn plecos. It has been set up for just over 6 mts.
> 
> I tested every thing that I can test and the ph is about 6.4 (and we have REALLY hard water), ammonia is 0, nitrite is 0, and nitrate is about 40ppm.
> 
> I noticed it about 2 months ago. It sucks right out when I change water but comes back in about a week. What can I do to get rid of it? If someone can explaine how to post pics I have some but it wants an address and they are on the computer not the web so I do not know what to do. Sorry for the length but I wanted to give as much information as I could.
> 
> Thank you for any help you can give to help me git rid of this junk


Go down to where it says : "Manage Attachments" Then go to: "Browse"
Then look for your pic an hit "upload" When it finish that's it

I'm having the same problem so I will be keep an eye on you tread mine is more sand brown color that started on the gravel


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## K Anderson

Thanks for the help. Here are the pictures, I hope.


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## feral13

This is what I have been fighting with and I havent been able get much info. I think I have had every type of tank there is to have in the past 30 years and I have never seen this stuff.

My setup is about the same except my water is very soft. I almost ODed my fish on CO2 and if I had any more water movement, things would start getting blown out of the tank. 

I am doing 3 20% water changes a week with RO water and tried 2 blackouts. Excel has not excelled.

Twirling a toothbrush around it is a joke because it just falls apart. The only removal method that seems to work is to work it free and then quickly vacuum it up before it floats away and attaches to something else.

Amano Shrimp and SAE seem to ignore it but it wouldn't mater because they couldn't make a dent in it anyway.

Only thing different in this tank from the others (that I can think of) is the aquariumplants.com substrate and fert pellets. It does have higher light, but CO2 to match.


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## DarkCobra

I can't offer a positive ID or definite treatment advice, but I have seen that algae. There's a LFS here with tanks overrun with the stuff.

The interesting thing is that those tanks are _simultaneously_ overrun with BGA.

BGA thrives with low oxygen and high organic wastes. So maybe your mystery algae does, too.

All the pictures in this thread appear to be from tanks lightly planted with slow growers, which supports the possibility of low oxygen/high organic waste conditions.

The lack of BGA in your tanks doesn't mean these conditions don't exist. BGA doesn't just spontaneously appear, it must be introduced. Once you have it, it can be eliminated completely; never to appear again until reintroduced, even if conditions are perfect.

So if I were faced with this, here's what I'd try first:

1) Pack the tank with fast growing plants. Water wisteria is my "disposable" filler plant of choice; it's cheap, readily available, and can grow incredibly fast. Furthermore, it's tolerant of Excel overdoses, H2O2, and rough handling; all of which might occur while you're trying to deal with the algae.

2) Since complete mechanical removal of this algae appears impossible, try Excel or H2O2 _spot treatments_, rather than whole tank treatments. That delivers a more concentrated dose to the algae without overwhelming the tank as a whole. For H2O2, use 1 tbsp. per 10g daily, applied with a syringe while the filters are off. Work up to 2 tbsp. if there aren't any problems observed with plants or fish after a few days. This is not a replacement for #1 and will probably never rid your tank of this algae alone; it's just a tool to keep the algae down while the extra plants grow in.

3) Stay on a normal water change schedule. I've seen some good evidence that excess silicates (possibly from your water supply), and excess phosphates _only_ in the form of phosphoric acid (found in some water conditioners), can contribute to some freakish algae outbreaks.

Good luck, I'll keep watching for any progress.


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## catwat

Brown algae or diatoms

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/algae/84947-brown-diatom-id-pics.html

Young Rosy Barbs work wonders. Mollies/live-bearers too. You need enough to eat it faster than it spreads.


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## K Anderson

Thanks DarkCobra for the suggestions. I started out with some pretty quick growing plants that were doing well but several have since died back. All of my LFS seem to be slacking off on their plant supply but I will keep going back untill I find enough plants to make a jungle.


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## feral13

I have always accepted Brown Algae as just a step in the Aquarium setup process. Not saying its not Brown Algae, but I have never seen it take this form or be this aggressive. 

My tank is about 60% stocked with plants that have established themselves. It was more, but the algae was so bad on some I tossed them out.


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## DarkCobra

K Anderson said:


> All of my LFS seem to be slacking off on their plant supply but I will keep going back untill I find enough plants to make a jungle.


Try checking (or posting a WTB) on the "Swap n Shop" forum here instead, if getting plants shipped to you is an option. I'm sure someone has a load of aquatic weeds they're willing to part with.


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## DarkCobra

feral13 said:


> My tank is about 60% stocked with plants that have established themselves. It was more, but the algae was so bad on some I tossed them out.


What kind of plants did you have when this algae established itself?


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## feral13

DarkCobra said:


> What kind of plants did you have when this algae established itself?


My custom scape order didn't make it so I filled the tank with whatI had in my old tank and then went out and bought what I could at LFS. Most of these plants are place holders.

Most of it is Wisteria 
Unidentified Brown Crypts
One unidentified stem plant 
Anachiris 
Rotola 
Micro Sword
Petite Nana
Java Ferns
Amazon Swords 

There are also terrestrial plants that feed from the water column that are in planters at the top. Im probably forgetting a few.

Everything is or was thriving, but I had to remove some Anachhiris and all moss because it was collecting the most algae.


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## DarkCobra

feral13 said:


> Everything is or was thriving, but I had to remove some Anachhiris and all moss because it was collecting the most algae.


Sounds like neither low oxygen/high organics apply for you.

Is your algae growing on the substrate or just the plants?


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## feral13

Plant and driftwood only. Nothing on glass or substrate.

I just took these when I got home. I spent almost 3 hours weeding this junk out last night and this is what I come home to.


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## inkslinger

DarkCobra said:


> BGA thrives with low oxygen and high organic wastes. So maybe your mystery algae does, too.
> 
> All the pictures in this thread appear to be from tanks lightly planted with slow growers, which supports the possibility of low oxygen/high organic waste conditions.
> 
> The lack of BGA in your tanks doesn't mean these conditions don't exist. BGA doesn't just spontaneously appear, it must be introduced. Once you have it, it can be eliminated completely; never to appear again until reintroduced, even if conditions are perfect..


I don't think this came from low oxygen? I have a 1100gph pump with a Mazzie, When I'm not pumping co2 in at night I got a lot of flow movement in my tank. 
Will it looks to me that my algae battle is over now , My Dc is still the same transparent blue,I added more Fe, an I have 2 pair's of t5 54w 6hr's a day , I'm also keeping my co2 bubble count to 3bps, I don't know if my Nu-Clear 547 cycle that did it or my other settings but gravel has been clean of algae since last week tooth brush cleaning .
My sword and 5 stem plants are growing bigger now , I still need to add more. 
I don't think this came from low oxygen I have a 1100gph pump with a Mazzie when I'm not pumping co2 in at night I got a lot of flow movement in my tank for a 60x18x24 tank.
My algae started in the center on the gravel not on plants or glass , Toward the end of the algae cycle it spread more to left side of my tank where I have 4 small plants, On the other side it did not reach I have a large sword and 5 stems growing real good. I still need to add a lot more plants in my tank.
IMO: My BIO Filter was not cycle yet and low on ferts , The only test kit I have is for KH, an PH , I do need to get PO4 , an KNO3 test kits


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## happi

i been dealing with same algae, but i think it mostly occurs in new setups, especially if you added new substrate. no EI dosing and no co2 seems to be helping to battle this algae, i don't think flow is any issue either.


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## DarkCobra

Weird stuff.

Feral13, I love that setup. The floating and other plants really blur the distinction between the tank and everything else.


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## feral13

Thanks much and thanks all for input.

I think I am going to treat mine like new-tank brown algae and see what happens when I stop fighting it. I am going to hold water changes for about 4 days and let it clump up all it wants in the wisteria. Ill just vacuum it off the plants I want to keep. Hopefully it will starve itself out.

On a lighter note, the Amano Shrimp are eating it after all.


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## AoxomoxoA

I've produced this stuff a few times, I always thought it was Rhizoclonium.

In my case it was way too much light, no ferts, low/no oxygen. There were anaerobic conditions in each case also, play sand was used (& won't ever be again!)
Like DarkCobra said, a annoyingly fast growing stem will do wonders for a algae-free icon_lol startup, but it looks like you have some.
For me it happened on E. tenellus each time, probably just because it was low to substrate?

Only way i got rid of it was blacking out w/no ferts. After that I took each & every individual plant & pulled them between my fingers repeatedly till all was gone. Rinse & repeat, then started the tank again with much less light, solid fert schedule. I never had any excel at that time to try using it.
Maybe try raising your lights a little more?

Nice set-up:thumbsup: It does flow nicely even a foot away from the tank.
I like the way you blocked the light overspill, did you have a thread about that? Or maybe it was someone else idk but yeah your tank is pretty cool, nice job.:icon_bigg
Don't forget to try raise the lights though...


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## feral13

I think the growth is slowing down, but there is still a lot. It is hard to tell. This is the micron filter from tonights vacuum.


















I think I will call it Baby Poop Algae.

I am now using 100% RO for water changes. If its silicates, they have to run out sometime...


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## Dan the Man

Any update? I'm battling this stuff too


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## Dan the Man

Still looking for an update. I take it the blackout worked since I haven't heard back from you?


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## Jeffww

Battling this stuff too. It really likes high light. I think it's a colonial version of diatoms as just rubbing the strands lightly reduces it to nothing but wet powder. Interestingly enough it dries green. 

Anyways, I've been vacuuming the crap off constantly. This stuff grows faster than lightning. It takes two days to get back to the same density as the previous day. But I'm quite certain this stuff is feeding off my substrate more than anything else...


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## Dan the Man

I'm 2 days into my 3 day blackout so I'll let you know how it's going. I also double dosed excel into the blackout tank. Tomorrow I will do a huge water change and dose normal amount of excel. This is the method that Tom Barr recommends. I also lowered my lighting to two bulbs for 6 hours when the blackout is over.


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## Dan the Man

Ok...so after a 3 day blackout with a double dose of excel, I took of the trash bags and viola! No yucky brown hair algae!!! Where it was the thickest has greatly shrunk and turned green which I assume to mean dead. My plants look great and I've seen no sign of the dreaded brown Rhizo for 4 days now! My glosso is still not carpeting...can't seem to train it so I'm going to go ahead and let the DHG take over.
__________________


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## ADA

@Dan the Man, any updates? Did it come back?

I'm struggling with this exact stuff. 

Problem is, I have high grade CRS in there, so that limits what I can do (Excel is bad, any fish besides ottos are bad, Co2 bad.)

Thanks!



Dan the Man said:


> Ok...so after a 3 day blackout with a double dose of excel, I took of the trash bags and viola! No yucky brown hair algae!!! Where it was the thickest has greatly shrunk and turned green which I assume to mean dead. My plants look great and I've seen no sign of the dreaded brown Rhizo for 4 days now! My glosso is still not carpeting...can't seem to train it so I'm going to go ahead and let the DHG take over.
> __________________


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## CRS Fan

ADA said:


> @Dan the Man, any updates? Did it come back?
> 
> I'm struggling with this exact stuff.
> 
> Problem is, I have high grade CRS in there, so that limits what I can do (Excel is bad, any fish besides ottos are bad, Co2 bad.)
> 
> Thanks!


I currently run CO2, EI dose, and use Metricide 14 (a cheaper alternative to Flourish Excel) on my Painted Fire Red and SS/SSS CRS tank and am not having any CRS deaths. Mind you, I run a 9W Turbo Twist sterilizer, and Eheim Ecco 2234, pressurized CO2 (1 bubble every 2 seconds) during my 9 hour photoperiod through an inline CO2 atomizer, and the tank is heavily planted now. I think the biggest concern you may have with CRS, will be an small ammonia spike with the algae die-off.

JMHO.

Stuart


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## hnabhi

I am facing the same issue too...  does blackouts really help ?


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## Musclecar67

What algae is this I cant get rid of it!
Im considering a blackout but I do not want my plants to die!
Please Help!
Here is my thread http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/tank-journals/171438-fluval-edge-rescape-aquaescape.html


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## KH2PO4

Filamentous diatom. Yea, very aggressive, love strong light, not minding strong flow.
Had them a few times. For me, it happened after big upset (dying BGA). 
It seemed to absorb organic matters from the dead BGA. It will disappear 
on its own. Never lasted longer than a month.


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## Dudefish

I have this stuff also, it started on pigmy chain, and then it detaches and floats in the water flow gets into the christmas moss and totally matts. The stuff is everywhere, in trying to get rid of it I have managed to start an out break of bba, and now stag horn matted in the moss too. I cut all the Pygmy chain right back to the substrate because it was covered and introduced a mass of fast growers (which are now covered in the stuff also) but now the chain has hair algae all over the stumps. My problems fit with this thread, eg. Play sand! High light, high flow rate, co2, irregular dosing due to trying to get rid of the stuff. What should I do now? Black out or leave it and reduce light? 
Here is my tank, I don't have any close up shots of algae, but I will take some tomorrow.

Tank by Dudefish, on Flickr


Tank by Dudefish, on Flickr

Before chain massacre and fast growers.

Aquarium by Dudefish, on Flickr


Planted tank by Dudefish, on Flickr


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## jim lockhart

I had this a few years ago and I thought i'd never get rid of it. Heres my thoughts

I believe the link to the thread about the two kinds of Diatoms is correct. The 1st one Synedra is the nasty thready one, and it is actually a brown green color. It looks more brown because it occurs along with the 2nd one, which is the brown diatom we are all familiar with, that we get at startup time. 

If you take some some of it out of the tank, and run it under water, and rub it with your finger, the brown stuff will wash away and the remaining thready part will look more green.

As most of you already know it is extremely aggressive, and seems to take the vigor out of the plants it attaches to.

It does seem to weaken when light is reduced, so agree with 3-day blackout, but 1st physically remove all of it that is visible in the tank. 

Remove all affected stems and everything else that is easily removeable, pick the rest off as best you can. Cut away parts that seem so heavily infected that the algae does not remove easily. When you feel you have cleared it out of the tank, replant.

Do a large WC, the more the better. It will remove some of the loose small pieces.

After the blackout, use reduced lighting, cut the photo period if you cant reduce the wattage.

I'm afraid even after this it will not all be gone, so you will have to be vigilant and watch for any signs of it returning, especially after you seem to be all clear and turn the lighting up again. Remove it as soon as you see it.

I suspect Excel might help, and maybe HYdrogen Peroxide, but I did not try those when I had it.

Good luck, I can empathize with you on this on.

Jim.


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## plantbrain

K Anderson said:


> Thanks for the help. Here are the pictures, I hope.


Melosira, this is a filamentous diatom alga. Pretty common in natural systems. 
Amano shrimp, SAE's love this stuff.


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## plantbrain

Dudefish said:


> I have this stuff also, it started on pigmy chain, and then it detaches and floats in the water flow gets into the christmas moss and totally matts.
> 
> Planted tank by Dudefish, on Flickr


Painful lack of plant biomass. 

I'd say the tank has 1/10th of the tank planted, you need to pack a tank with whatever weeds can add. Prune out the dither plants little by little after the ones you like grow in.


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## mordalphus

TThis picture has some draecna in it, not an aquatic plant. You probably want to remove that one! It's the one with the white striped leaves.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnmorrell/7057457005/


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## Pen3

I just finished my battle on a 25 gal cube by borrowing my brothers 10" sailfin pleco lol it mowed and uproot almost everything, but its all gone overnight and I did a 2 day blackout with wc everyday.


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## Dudefish

The draecna has gone... it was only in the tank for a few days, before i realised it was none aquatic and then it was ripped out and replaced with Java Fern. 
The photos you both comment on are older photos posted to show the chain sword before i mowed it. The other two photos are more recent and have 100% more plant mass. (although this still is probably not enough).
I have taken some photos today of the algae see below.
I have 4 Hillstream Loaches (who clean a good amount of Daitom off rocks and glass) 15 Neons, 2 Cory's, and 4 Amano's (who seem to do nothing but hide) and have ordered some MTS to put in. yet this algea is comming thick and fast.


Week 10 by Dudefish, on Flickr


Week 10 algae problems by Dudefish, on Flickr


Week 10 algae by Dudefish, on Flickr


Christmas moss algae by Dudefish, on Flickr


Chain sword algae by Dudefish, on Flickr


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