# 90 Gallon Custom



## Hendy8888

It's been a while since I tore down my 5ft planted. I always had intentions of doing another build but life got in the way and I have been slowly turning my plans into reality.

I enjoy documenting the progress of each build so I can easily see the tanks progression and have decided to play a little catch up. 

Spring 2015

It started with a custom 48"x24"x18" rimless low iron tank ordered from Krakens Reef. It was a long time coming and got rejected by customs the first time because of wood shipping material. 




Very impressed with the craftsmanship.


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## Hendy8888

November 2015

The start of the DIY stand

1x pine, using a biscuit jointer. Zero nails or screws will be used.



December 2015

Initial frame comming together, top is 1x6 and rest is 1x4.





January 2016 frame complete


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## Hendy8888

September 2016
Bottom and top glued on

Outer part of the stand is made of 3/4" MDO. 







Ripping an angle used to open the top of the doors. Having a right tilt table saw made it a challenge to do this safely without binding. Creating a sacrificial fence to bury the blade in and create an opening for the off cut worked very well.





Making a face frame without any joints. I just used a jigsaw with a straight edge for the final cut to get 90 degree corners.



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## Hendy8888

I chose soss hinges due to the 180 degree opening and being able to inset mount the doors. I looked for an euro hinge that would mount but came up empty without adding addition support to mount them.

Instead of buying an expensive jig I set my own up using clamps and a straight edge.


This had to be done to the face frame before I attached it to the stand.


Not that bad for a cheap router and plywood edges.



Next I flush trimmed the top of the stand


Test fit of face frame and doors with hinges installed before I glued it together.


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## Hendy8888

October 2016

Glued the face frame on and mounted the doors.







Quick test fit of the 20lbs CO2 tank with reg. Pretty snug...



Nowhere near enough long clamps so anything in sight went on top during the glue up of the remaining 3 sides....I bet those blankets really helped out alot...



Success! Fairly difficult glue up since all the seams were 45 degrees to get the seamless finish.


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## Hendy8888

November 2016

Flush trimmed the top, bottom, and corners of the stand. The MDO was pretty hard on the router bits.





Got to love plywood chip out..



Easy way to drill some angled holes for a light bar across the inside of the stand.





Major construction pretty much done aside from a few openings.





January 2017

Hole on the back for power cords, didn't take any pictures of the large side hole for plumbing.





Did I mention the cheap router..one bit wasn't so flush cut as it should be. Probably almost a 1/8" more than flush so it got filled in with Bondo.



Soss hinges don't have self closing (that fit at least) so I used rare earth magnets.





Needed more attraction so stepped it up a bunch and added some soft close bumpers.


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## Hendy8888

The stand sat in the garage for over a year while I procrastinated over finishing it. Between work and winter weather I always seemed to miss my window to paint. I did get the bondo work done to all the seams and exposed plywood edges to seal them up.

April 2018

Tried a black limo tint for the background, went on very nice and was initially happy.









This is my first time spraying a finish and probably why it took me so long to pull the trigger.

I took apart my Sfiligoi stealth t5 to upgrade the paint as well.




Cheap $10 Harbour Freight paint gun to learn on and 3 coats of Cover Stain.



Once the primer was on I found some cracks from the wood warping a tiny bit (was left in a garage after all). Fixed with some baking soda grinded into the crack and then flowed in some thin crazy glue followed by another sanding.



So far so good


Better look at the plumbing access.


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## Hendy8888

May 2018

I decided to test the black limo tint with a light overhead. The light fixture I'm using is the same size as the tank so there will be over spill. 


Not impressed with the limo tint anymore...


So it had to go


Replaced it with black vinyl.


Much better


June 2018

Makeshift paint setup


Top coat


That furniture dolly was worth it's weight in gold..




Wet sanding between coats.


3 Coats later




All done and moved inside, I couldn't be happier.


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## Hendy8888

July 2018

A better look at the interior lights. There is a sensor on the right door that makes the lights come on when you open the door and go off when you close it.










Standard RGB light strip, so pick a colour.


Yoga mat for under the tank


Tank and stand together


All caught up now so the updates will roll in slowly from here on.


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## Hendy8888

RKL is mounted.


Plumbing almost finished, just need to glue a couple joints. Going with a Herbie drain but is designed to make it Bean Animal very easily if I need to.




Waiting on some SCS 1200 silicone in clear to get in stock so I can finish the sump off and seal the bottom of the stand to ensure its water tight. After that I will water test.


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## Hendy8888

Got the light finished and mounted. I needed a new hanging kit since the old wires were rusted. The wires that attach to the light in the ATI kit I'm using ended up being to short so I had to make my own.

How the cable stop starts out


How it ends up with a little trimming and sanding.


A shot showing how Sfiligoi attaches the cables. Just a slot for a washer to slide down.


Holds so far, I was hoping to find a stud but no luck. I didn't want an ugly washer at the ceiling which is required when using the toggle bolts so I used snap toggles. Very similar but allowed a slightly smaller hole so no washer required.










I'm happy with how the light turned out, I am still undecided if I want to rewire what 4 bulbs are on each power cord. They currently alternate dual bulb sets but I might make the centre 4 on one cord and the outer 4 on another. I will mostly only use 4 bulbs with a short burst of 8.


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## Patriot

This looks very clean. I'm subscribing.


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## Mike A.

Great job.


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## FreshPuff

What a great build. You really took the time to get things done the right way. Now hurry and get this planted!


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## finfan

WOW... wow wow


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## TeamTeal

wow this is gonna be good. great work so far


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## Grobbins48

What a journey for you so far! It must feel good to look back at the progress and now being so close to scaping, filling, and stocking. 

Beautiful build, a labor of love. Looking forward to updates!


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## Hendy8888

Thanks all, I have really enjoyed this part of the build. Next up....

Leak testing.


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## Hendy8888

Modular Marine Overflow
Great experience purchasing from them. This is a custom size with custom hole placements since my tank was already drilled. Very quick to reply to all my questions and packaged very well for shipping. 




Internal overflow comes off to clean.


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## Hendy8888

Sump modifications, for anyone interested SCS1200 silicone will bond acrylic to glass quite well. 
Made a hole to hold the heater in a perfect spot, room for 2 heaters if I want as well.


Drip plates, don't mind the yellow water.


Squeezed that 20lb co2 tank and reg in there..glad my planning is paying off when I designed the stand.


Some filter media in there, still need more but mise we'll start the cycle even though the main display is empty getting hardscaped. Love that I can recirculate the filter while I do trimmings and tank cleaning.


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## Hendy8888

Added some small black lava rock rubble for the base layer. I needed the extra height and I figured it might be like a knock off ADA power sand (No clue if it's beneficial).


Base layer of Tropica plant soil


Initial rock layout, no plan going in except I wanted two hills. I actually like it for a first attempt and no experience. Let me know if you would do any changes.




White balance issues in auto mode I think (same lighting)


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## Hendy8888

Added a bit more height, filled in with aquasoil, and added some smaller rocks.


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## Roasty

Hendy8888 said:


> Added a bit more height, filled in with aquasoil, and added some smaller rocks.


Very nice layout. 
From my own recent experience.. Choose rocks larger than u think u need. Because by the time the carpet and plants grow, most of the small rocks will be covered up. if you're using hc cuba for a carpet, they will creep up and over rocks.
If I could/would redo mine, I would have chosen much larger rocks for my scape.


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## Patriot

I was also told the same thing about getting hard larger than you'll think you'll need. It's looking great. I love your sump setup. 

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## Hendy8888

Thanks, I didn't really think of that. I will have to see if I can raise some of the smaller one's.


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## Hendy8888

Finally got around to planting it yesterday.
15 Tropica tissue culture pots, no real plan going in and just went with the flow. I'm sure I will be moving plants around and adding a couple anyways.

Installed the Avast Marine ATO, the Purigen reactor and CO2 today. Lots of tweaking with the RKL as it's my first controller.


Still need to clean some wires up and mount the pump controllers but want to get the life support items done first.


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## Hendy8888

Day 4


Nice surprise that Tropica soil doesn't leach any ammonia.

I also sealed up the filter sock holder a bit since the holes were slightly large, with the silicone tube inserts the socks fit perfectly and looks even better too.


Socks installed, I might do the same around all the trays to stop any bypass. I want to try to eliminate any splashing to save co2 and to be silent.


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## Hendy8888

Day 11
All the plants adjusted well to submersed growth, just the Lilaeopsis Brasiliensis showed significant melting. I'm away most of this month but it's been smooth sailing so far.


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## FreshPuff

It keeps getting better and better. Great job!


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## Mike!

Hendy8888 said:


>


After watching far too many The Green Machine aquascaping videos the elevated and growing between rocks setup is the one thing that has me seriously itching to start a whole new tank from scratch. The above shot is not helping me at all :crying:

Seriously, though, it looks amazing.


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## Hendy8888

Thanks FreshPuff and Mike!, I say go for it! I tend to lean towards this style since I will inevitably collect too many species of plants and it lets me replace and move them around a bit easier.


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## Hendy8888

Day 20
Saw the first sign of algae when I got home from a trip a few days ago. I had raised the water level in the overflow box a bit to help reduce co2 off gas but went slightly too high and the skimming suffered. 

How much the overflow weir falls is a big factor in co2 loss, dialed in now with skimming working. 

I thought I better get some shrimp in there finally to help out, seems like it just got out of ballance with the protein film. The algae is basically gone now, not that there was very much to begin with. It was still worth noting since there has been zero visible algae till now. I also started dosing macro and micro ferts since nitrates were bottoming out (could have induced the algae too).


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## Greggz

Nice concept and well executed. 

Growth looks good from only being planted a short time ago.

Will be very curious to see where this goes from here.

Subscribed.


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## Hendy8888

Greggz said:


> Nice concept and well executed.
> 
> Growth looks good from only being planted a short time ago.
> 
> Will be very curious to see where this goes from here.
> 
> Subscribed.


Thanks, I am very surprised at the growth so far especially since as far as I can tell theres not many nutrients. The aqua soil could be releasing more than I can tell but the highest nitrates I've tested has been 5ppm with 0ppm ammonia. Maybe those tissue culture plants do store some nutrients to use for the first little while.


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## Hendy8888

Still growing in...I want to trim some plants but too busy for maintenance right now unfortunately.


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## Hendy8888

More pics...





I still need to order some fish but didn't have any luck with my fire red shrimp shipment. They were shipped without a heat pack and that day it was just about freezing. Lots of DOA but I thought the rest would be okay...apparently not, only 2 or 3 left now out of 40.

I hope that was the problem and it's nothing in my water, time will tell, might try another batch of shrimp first.


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## Hendy8888

First major trim, went away for a week and came back to a bunch of algae. It was going so well... It's not terrible but the battle begins I guess, I just wish I was home to catch it sooner. It must of been from some dead shrimps and that I changed out the filter socks and fiber before I left.


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## ZEUSFL

Amazing job.


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## Hendy8888

ZEUSFL said:


> Amazing job.


Thanks! It's been fun.


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## Thelongsnail

Love this tank, wish I had the skills to DIY a stand and plumbing like that!

Probably a silly question, but do you inject CO2 into the tank and remove equipment for photos, or do you manage to keep all that hidden in the sump cupboard as well?

What are you planning on stocking once you can place an order?


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## ZEUSFL

He probably mixes the CO2 in the canister. You can buy that in eBay and eliminate the diffuser.


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## Hendy8888

Thelongsnail said:


> Love this tank, wish I had the skills to DIY a stand and plumbing like that!
> 
> Probably a silly question, but do you inject CO2 into the tank and remove equipment for photos, or do you manage to keep all that hidden in the sump cupboard as well?
> 
> What are you planning on stocking once you can place an order?


Thanks! Yes, I have a 20lb co2 tank crammed into the cabinet. I am injecting via the needle wheel method and get a 1.2ph drop within an hour. Everything is in the sump which needs to be organized still to look good. I have used co2 reactors before on a 120gal and always thought my co2 could be more efficient since I was just using the output of a Ehiem 2217 which was underpowered. I do like the simplicity of just sticking the co2 output into the needle wheel venturi and your done. 

At some point I may get one of those fancy flowmeters I keep reading about to replace my old needle valve and see how much co2 I am actually injecting. I know its alot but I also know theres alot off gassing due to the uncovered sump with a trickle filter. 

Here is a picture of the plumbing you can't see in my other photos.


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## Hendy8888

As for fish I will probably have a bunch of ottos, around 100 green neons, a school of glass catfish and I will think about putting in the 4 dantum angelfish I currently have to make the smaller fish school together. I just don't want them to eat the shrimp and neons too much so not forsure yet. I would love to get some whiptail catfish down the road too.


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## Greggz

Love everything about this tank, from the equipment to the aquascape.

Very, very nice and keeps getting better and better.


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## Hendy8888

Greggz said:


> Love everything about this tank, from the equipment to the aquascape.
> 
> Very, very nice and keeps getting better and better.


Thanks Greggz, I appreciate it. I got to looking at your tank and it took me down memory lane with rainbows. I had to go find an old photo of some Melanotaenia Axelrodi I had when I didn't know so much about the hobby. Your fish and plants look stunning, I really enjoy seeing the full potential of rainbows.


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## Hendy8888

Tank is not looking the best these days, I think I have been fighting with cyanobacteria. Can anyone confirm it with the pics? Had a bit of diatom algae on the Monte Carlo in patches I think too. I have been away quite a bit which doesn't help me be more persistent then it is. 

4 feet back I can't complain too much..



Star grass took a hit when I was spraying the exposed rocks with some hydrogen peroxide...Its been awhile and I should have been a little more careful.


It's about the only thing that the cyanobacteria? doesn't like though..the top stone here is still clean after a week or two of getting hit. It's starting to spread back to it but I have ignored that rock since I sprayed it. Bottom stone is way worse in comparison.


Monte Carlo has a few patches that melted. I have to admit I used some Ultra Life Red slime remover (saltwater version of their cyanobacteria killer) and it didn't do much it seems. I followed it by a 3 day blackout which seems to have beat back the green and brown algae on the plants but they were already damaged.


The cyanobacteria? lives on. Easy to siphon off but hard to get off the lava rock.



Let me know your recommendations for dealing with this and if it is actually cyanobacteria. So far I have been cleaning it off every other day when I can, checked the co2 (may re-calibrate ph probe) upped my macros, changed out the purigen, lots of water changes, changed the filter socks.

Tomorrow I have time to pester it some more. Plan to hit as many rocks I can with hydrogen peroxide during the water change, also going to trim the dead off everything. It's about time this tank gave me some fun...


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## Greggz

Hendy8888 said:


> Let me know your recommendations for dealing with this and if it is actually cyanobacteria.


If it really is cyanobacteria, then get some Chemiclean and use it right away.

And if you are not sure, get some Chemiclean and use if right away.


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## Hendy8888

I have some freshwater Ultra Life blue green slime remover on order already. They seem to be the same product as the chemiclean except the Ultra Life doesn't call for any water changes. Either way I will get the chemiclean too. I really don't want to use Erythromycin if I can help it but we will see.


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## Hendy8888

I was able to spend some quality time today with the tank. Turns out about 95% of the Heteranthera zosterifolia was dead, absolutely everything on the bottom was clear leaves. I saved a couple stems and filled in most of the area with Pogostemon erectus trimmings so it looks decent. I'm glad I found all the decay and got it out of there.

The rocks got removed and scrubbed with a peroxide spray, the non removable ones just got scrubbed. Any exposed rocks got sprayed too. After the water change it looks great, cleared up immediately. For good measure I dosed the red slime remover again to oxidize any organics.

This is Google photo's attempt to make my tank look like a reef with led's I think...


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## tredford

Hendy8888 said:


> This is Google photo's attempt to make my tank look like a reef with led's I think...



At first glance, I actually thought that was a reef tank with some star polyps at the top of the pic, hahaha. Looks great, glad you were able to get on top of the algae.


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## Hendy8888

Two weeks no maintenance, growth was good on all fronts. Plants, cyano, and a little GDA. Came home to find this:




Don't mind the bad pics, I just wanted some before pictures on auto mode.

I hacked back every plant except the S. Repens and the AR mini that was hacked back two weeks ago. I don't really see R. Macandra trimmed this way too much, I think it will be fine. P. erectus is by far my favorite plant so far. It has very well behaved, predictable, slow growth and if it responds well to trimming this way it's the perfect plant.



I changed out a pink for another purple bulb just to see. I find 4 bulb combos are hard to make perfect. The greens look more bright green and I feel like the reds will be more red (AR mini). I'm not used to all the purple yet, I might leave it for a couple days and see how I feel.



Next up is to take care of the Cyanobacteria that I think I have...wish I was home more so I could do treatments to it. I am starting with the freshwater blue green stain remover and if that doesn't work I have chemiclean and erythromycin waiting on deck..


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## slipfinger

Which bulbs are you currently running and in what order?


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## Hendy8888

slipfinger said:


> Which bulbs are you currently running and in what order?


Front /Aquaflora / Sunblaster 6500k / Fiji purple /Aquaflora / back

The last two pics are:
Front / Fiji purple / Sunblaster 6500k / Fiji purple / Aquaflora

With the first combo I have interchanged the two middle bulbs and the big difference is what light is reflected off the back wall with my fixture. I like the purple wall a bit more then the white wall. I tried a 2700k bulb and it was very yellow without something to offset it. I feel 1 purple and 1 6500k is killer for greens but washes out reds. I find myself going back to the 2 pink 1 6500k and 1 purple everytime I mess with them. I think the white balance in my last post seems a bit off for that combo.


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## Patriot

I love the color rendition that the light give off. I will have to try using a purple bulb someday. 

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## Hendy8888

No major updates, I cleaned up the wires in the cabinet but no pictures. The ultra life and the Chemi clean didn't seem to work on whatever the tank has. Currently doing the second dose of Chemi clean but I don't have high expectations. I'm away from the tank for about a week so it will get the erythromycin after that (fingers crossed). Here are a couple FTS, I like the shape of the aquascape but the colours still need to come back.


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## Ken Keating1

Nice tank @Hendy88, it looks good. I like the colors, the carpeting and openness with it. You've done a good job. 

How do you like the Modular Marine overflow? I ordered one last week, hopefully it should be here soon. Also, what's the distance from the water to the top of the rim and are you happy with the distance? Any thoughts or recommendations would be appreciated as I'm trying to figure out what distance is best.


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## msb

It looks like a filamentous algae. Does it look kinda like moss, comes off of plants really easily, grows really fast ? Up Co2 and it will not come back after removing. I have a very similar setup using needle wheel co2, wet-dry sump etc. and get ph drop of 1 in 15 minutes, about 1.5-1.6 peak and can go to like 1.7 before fish are agitated.

If it is Cyano it will kinda break off in chunks, looks like a slime. I could smell the stuff even outside of the tank. I think I got it from overuse of H2O2 spraying the walls to rid of GDA. Spot hitting it with a syringe will kill it instantly but if using it all over the tank will be hammering the biofilter at the same time.


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## Hendy8888

Ken Keating1 said:


> Nice tank @Hendy88, it looks good. I like the colors, the carpeting and openness with it. You've done a good job.
> 
> 
> 
> How do you like the Modular Marine overflow? I ordered one last week, hopefully it should be here soon. Also, what's the distance from the water to the top of the rim and are you happy with the distance? Any thoughts or recommendations would be appreciated as I'm trying to figure out what distance is best.




Thanks! I am very happy with the Modular Marine overflow. I got them to do a custom size and hole placements for mine to fit the tank better. The tank was pre drilled at the manufacture and I initially planned to make an overflow myself so the holes didn’t line up with any of the off the shelf versions. That being said I got very ocd and planned the hole placements exactly where I wanted so the overflow was flush with the top of the tank and to have the water level 0.75” below the rim. It is my first overflow so I over thought things but it turned out exactly what I wanted. You can expect the water level to be half way up the overflow weir depending how much flow you put through it. I think mine is between 0.5 and 0.75” below the rim, I don’t like the look when the water level is any lower and I sill have the ability to bring it all the way up to the rim if I want for photos by increasing the emergency drain height. 


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## Hendy8888

msb said:


> It looks like a filamentous algae. Does it look kinda like moss, comes off of plants really easily, grows really fast ? Up Co2 and it will not come back after removing. I have a very similar setup using needle wheel co2, wet-dry sump etc. and get ph drop of 1 in 15 minutes, about 1.5-1.6 peak and can go to like 1.7 before fish are agitated.
> 
> If it is Cyano it will kinda break off in chunks, looks like a slime. I could smell the stuff even outside of the tank. I think I got it from overuse of H2O2 spraying the walls to rid of GDA. Spot hitting it with a syringe will kill it instantly but if using it all over the tank will be hammering the biofilter at the same time.




To be honest I haven’t touched or smelt it but it doesn’t look like moss at all. It’s like a big slime string when it grows out in the open but does not break off in chunks. I get similar results with co2 dropping 1 ph in 15 min, from there it slows down quite a bit to get my 1.3 drop I currently have. I have been very slowly upping the co2 but was going to stop at 1.4. It’s good to know there might be a ways to go before stressing the livestock. I would think a 1.3 ph drop wouldn’t be limiting with the lights being so far above the tank but I don’t have a par meter so it’s just a guess. I will have to go do some searching about different types of filamentous algae though...hopefully I can find something similar.


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## msb

Yea what your describing isnt Cyano (BGA). Nevermind the PH drop. Think of the CO2/flow. Underneath the overflow and in between them mountains there will be areas of less concentration of CO2. Crank that CO2 to try to overcome it. 

I had same exact type of algae and was using toothbrush daily to get it out. At the time ph drop was around 1.3 like what most others I see. Its a different setup than the usual though. Wider tank, powerful current, outflow on top instead of bottom, lots of offgassing. I experimented with a more gentle flow thinking CO2 may linger around better but found best way was to just go full blast 950gph and go with about 1.5 drop of ph.


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## Hendy8888

After being away for a while I got a chance to observe the tank over a few days. I agree that it doesn't have cyano after seeing the algae grown out into strands. After putting a new co2 cylinder on I must have bumped the needle valve, I did wonder why the co2 was having a hard time reaching my target value. I assumed I had off gassing issues but I think the needle valve got moved. So I cranked the co2 feeling so confident with the controller limits to stop me from killing the shrimp. Well a couple of Amano shrimp thought otherwise and decided to abandon tank right in front of me. All the other shrimp were out grazing which isn't really normal behaviour with the lights on but otherwise didn't look stressed. I thought the Amanos were suicidal and left it at that. The next day I finally got around to re calibrating the ph probe and tested some off gassed tank water. To my surprise the water was 7.2 ph instead of the 7.0 which I thought it was. This makes sense why the shrimp were jumping out since it was a 1.7 ph drop from the co2 when I thought I had nailed my 1.5 target. Everything turned out fine...I turned it down to a proper 1.5 ph drop, learnt the limit for the livestock without killing anything and I get my target co2 before lights on. 

Now that I was happy with the co2 I had a go at the 1-2 punch algae treatment just to see more than anything.


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## Hendy8888

How it looked with a little trimming here and there before cleaning day.




I also replaced a faulty ballast in case I really want to have some fun with all 8...


I took out alot of the rocks that are below my wayerchange line and scrubbed the remaining leaving with this before the whole tank treatment.


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## Hendy8888

I did take probably half the fire reds out and most of the Amanos, whatever was caught overnight in a shrimp trap. I did the full 4tbsp per 10 gal treatment exactly as directed with lots of flow, the sump was isolated for the treatment. All the rocks removed got a special 100% bath in 3% H2O2 and a good scrub before going back in the tank.

As it stands now.


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## Hendy8888

I made a midnight airport run and finally made this into a fish tank...105 green neons and 25 otos from Spencer Jack's The aFISHionados. It's time for another trim so I took a few pics, no changes yet. I don't like the placement of the H. Pinnatifida or the Stargrass so there days are numbered. I will probably move the Pinnatifida since its colouring up nice and will replace the Stargrass with another green. I would like to find a dark green stem to balance out all the light greens, maybe Acmella Repens but it grows like a weed albeit very orderly and easy to maintain. 

The 1-2 punch had benefits and drawbacks, I feel like some algae was damaged but also the Monte Carlo, S. Repens, and H. Araguaia took a beating too on the right side and are still dropping some leaves (nothing major). I feel like it helped in the overal cleaning of the tank but taking the rocks out and scrubbing them had a greater effect.

Right side, not happy with the H. Pinnatifida crowding out the AR mini. It's really not a good spot for it and needs constant trimming or else it takes over, colour is getting better though.


Rotala H'ra' got larger leaves with the increase in co2.

Rotala Macrandra 


P. Erectus


H. Araguaia 

FTS

Side view

Wide angle, a little cloudy due to bacteria I'm dosing since the H2O2 treatment and addition of fish.


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## Hendy8888

I feel like I am always posting the same pictures but wanted to show the tank post trim. These are five days post trim and the stems are just starting to show the new growth. After another 9-10 days they will be in full glory again. It really saves time by trimming like this and I get two weeks off while waiting for new growth. Not all plants can be trimmed this way and you have to like how it looks without the beautiful tops. I am surprised how much I like the shape and openness after a good hack. Another benifit is a lucky local got the entire trim package to start his new tank. (Hopefully he starts a journal)

The addition of fish after cleaning the tank was a great coincidence. Knock on wood but the algae has all but disappeared. Even after one day of 25 otos I noticed large reduction in the diatoms and GDA on the glass. I also forgot to scrub a rock behind the H. Pinnatifida that was covered in the troublesome green algae. A few days later I checked on it and the rock was algae free.. what a great feeling. I haven't seen anything eating that particular algae but I suspect the oto's have been due to how quickly it disappeared. I haven't cleaned the glass for three weeks now to ensure they can graze and they get zucchini every week.

Before

After

Before

After

Before

After

Before

After (Over 110 fish are hiding in the macrandra!)




Electrical (Still needs some flare)

Dosing pump mounted to the top


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## Greggz

This really is a beautiful tank.

Very, very well done.

And cutting things down like that takes a great deal of patience. Very admirable.


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## TheUnseenHand

Stunning setup, really well done.


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## vijay_06

Just came across this thread. Looks great! I love the two island like layout. Quite different from the one typically seen in the forum. All plants look very healthy and colorful.

Going to read through the entire thread .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Hendy8888

Greggz said:


> And cutting things down like that takes a great deal of patience. Very admirable.


Once I get those scissors going its hard to stop. I think the Dutch style would take alot of patience to get everything lined up perfectly. I have to say that I am really itching to try out lots of new plants and all these great tanks on here are not helping at all. The collectoritis struggle is real..


----------



## Immortal1

Very impressive tank! Was also amazed at the clean wiring.


----------



## Hendy8888

Immortal1 said:


> Very impressive tank! Was also amazed at the clean wiring.


Once I get it finalized I plan to take some pictures showing inside the stand and wiring. I am thinking of adding a led strip in the light fixture which would require ripping out some wires. That light has so many wires coming out of it already but I will put a sleeve to make it look better once its done. I'm not looking forward to stuffing everything in the wire channel though behind the co2 tank...it's going to be a tight fit in a tight area.


----------



## Grobbins48

You have me in awe, from the beautiful tank, to the sharp and clean wiring job. Aspirations for me one day!
Very nice work!


----------



## moogoo

that is one CRAZY set up. i'm jealous. a lot of work put into that and well worth it in beauty of the tank.

Just out of curiosity, I noticed you used a yogamat as your leveling layer. I used a yogamat under my ADA 75p once upon a time too. It sat on that stand for nearly 10 years. When it was time to move, the yoga mat had adhered to the tank and the stand. Nothing was getting it off. Just curious if there was some trick you used to ensure that doesn't happen?


----------



## KZB

Absolutely Beautiful tank. Loved watching the progress. From the stand build to now. You have great attention to detail.


----------



## Hendy8888

Thanks for the comments everyone, I really enjoyed building this setup and could stare at it all day. The stand took quite a bit of planning to get the plumbing and wiring where I wanted it. There's alot of satisfaction seeing your design come to life and working through all the little challenges that arise. It's hard to believe that DIY stands are still so much superior then store bought ones to be honest. 




moogoo said:


> Just out of curiosity, I noticed you used a yogamat as your leveling layer. I used a yogamat under my ADA 75p once upon a time too. It sat on that stand for nearly 10 years. When it was time to move, the yoga mat had adhered to the tank and the stand. Nothing was getting it off. Just curious if there was some trick you used to ensure that doesn't happen?


First time for me so hopefully it doesn't stick too bad. I left the layer of dust on the stand, maybe that will help..haha.

As you can tell I like photos so here is a couple more for everyone who has ever maintained a carpeting plant.


----------



## moogoo

haha. yes, let's hope the dust helps! I have never gotten the garden mat from ADA, so i'm not sure what kind of material that is and if it has similar issues I experienced with the yoga mat. I was thinking next time i'd use a foam layer or getting the ADA garden mat. 

I'm impressed you were able to clean up so much of the trimmings! Your tank looks great. I think your lighting choices really bring out the colors of the plants. Definitely A+++ job planning out everything.


----------



## Hendy8888

A little progress shot of the new growth and thought I would put a snapshot of the tank info for future reference.


----------



## TheUnseenHand

Beautiful tank!


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## Greggz

TheUnseenHand said:


> Beautiful tank!


+1.

Love the presentation. Very well done.


----------



## KZB

Beautiful, perfect reveals and zero handles very modern sleek look. Talking about the stand. The tank is looking fantastic, nice colors beautiful Beautiful layout. The beast is all in the details, you hit them spot on.


----------



## WetLeaf

It's builds like this that make me disappointed in my own projects aha. You're a fantastic craftsman

Great job, everything looks amazing!


----------



## Ventchur

This journal has it all, only wish the pics we're higher quality especially the FTS. Any plans for rotating in new plant species you want to try?


----------



## Hendy8888

Thanks again everyone for all the encouraging comments! Please don't be afraid to voice your recommendations or any changes that you think I can try.


Ventchur said:


> This journal has it all, only wish the pics we're higher quality especially the FTS. Any plans for rotating in new plant species you want to try?


Thanks for letting me know! I havn't even looked at any of the pics on a computer screen. I will try a larger resolution on the image hosting site. I normally pick the message board default, is there a preferred size that everyone uses here? On the post above I changed them to 1600x1200, the only higher option is original resolution so let me know if it's better.

It's funny you bring up different plants because I have had the itch to make some changes and might pick up a few species I havn't grown before tomorrow if I come across the right ones. Rotating species is hard...I know I should but it will most likely be just adding, wish I had a farm tank for that aspect.


----------



## Grobbins48

Clean, beautiful, lush growth- with a wonderful presentation! The neon tetras really help create a sense of scale. I got lost in looking at the pictures for a while.

Well done!


----------



## Ventchur

Hendy8888 said:


> Thanks for letting me know! I havn't even looked at any of the pics on a computer screen. I will try a larger resolution on the image hosting site. I normally pick the message board default, is there a preferred size that everyone uses here? On the post above I changed them to 1600x1200, the only higher option is original resolution so let me know if it's better.
> 
> It's funny you bring up different plants because I have had the itch to make some changes and might pick up a few species I havn't grown before tomorrow if I come across the right ones. Rotating species is hard...I know I should but it will most likely be just adding, wish I had a farm tank for that aspect.


That size is much better on the computer, thanks. 

The good thing with your scape is that you have multiple sections of the same plant variety. I see maybe 3 sections of rotala bonsai, so you could replace 1 section of rotala bonsai with a new species and still have the remaining 2. Yeah, i definitely agree with you on the farm tank (single tank club).


----------



## Hendy8888

Well I spent a great deal of time the other day ripping out and replanting most of the tank. I picked up 5 new tissue cultures that needed a home which led me to organize the plants a bit more how I envisioned it at the beginning. The right side I am happy with, the left side still needs work, I need to see how the new plants grow but will need to angle the rocks around to get more angled pathways. I forgot how dense plants grow after a few trimmings and simply gave up since it was taking so long to organize the plants. 

Most you can't see yet but the new additions are:
Ludwigia arcuata
Ludwigia peruensis
Ludwigia pantanal
Rotala 'Vietnam'
Proserpinaca Palustris

I know there will be too much red but I havn't come across my need to have green plants that I want to try yet. As predicted no plants got the boot, I did take out all the Pinnatifida except for 4 stems and put it in a low light tank. If it does okay there I will replace that plant..I was thinking staurogyne purple but was probably looking at burr740's journal too much that day.


----------



## Greggz

Beautiful!

Love it!

Not too much red for me. Getting better all the time.


----------



## burr740

Gotta confess Im seeing this journal for the first time after it was linked in another thread. Boy was I missing something!! Im positively in awe of your build and the mechanics of everything. Just superb.

Nice bounce back from the algae phase. Most tanks go through one (or five) during the first few months. Yours was...formidable to say the least.

Plants look great and I really like the layout, very unique. Glad you posted your complete dosing and parameters. Very interesting.

Looking forward to watching things progress


----------



## Hendy8888

burr740 said:


> Gotta confess Im seeing this journal for the first time after it was linked in another thread. Boy was I missing something!! Im positively in awe of your build and the mechanics of everything. Just superb.


Thanks, that means alot coming from someone with your experience. I am happy you are on board to give your advice. I think it's really great that you and others on here spend so much time helping people in this hobby. I confess I look through your journals and what you do to help guide me, especially with t5 bulb choice and water parameters. I feel my dosing is lean compared to others here and thought I would show what I'm doing. I am currently trying a higher P then I had previously and I may have to try your lower K recommendation which would give me a kh of 1.


----------



## Greggz

Hendy8888 said:


> I feel my dosing is lean compared to others here and thought I would show what I'm doing. I am currently trying a higher P then I had previously and I may have to try your lower K recommendation which would give me a kh of 1.


Very difficult to compare dosing in active and inert substrates. 

I don't have any experience with Aquasoil, but do know it can absorb P. So not surprised extra P is having good result. 

If you want a good read about a tank with Aquasoil, Pikez (Vin Kutty) has a long thread on the Barr Report "Going Dutch with Aquasoil". Besides Burr's 75G journey, was the other thread I read many times over when I got started. Might be worth checking out, and could be helpful to you.

Here is the link.....................

https://barrreport.com/threads/going-dutch-with-aquasoil.13105/


----------



## Hendy8888

Greggz said:


> Very difficult to compare dosing in active and inert substrates.


That is a very good point that I havn't thought about in a while. 

Thanks for the thread recommendations, I will have to check them out.


----------



## Hendy8888

No huge update but did a trim so thought I would log a photo. I have been dealing with some GSA and some what I call pre BBA that forms around the edges of slow growers. It's being managed as of now but still enough to keep me on edge. The ATO ran dry while I was away and the tank must have had low co2 for at least one day as the main pump was sucking air. I think this was the main trigger but I also noticed the nitrates were alot higher then I thought they should be...still not sure why unless it's the fish feedings. Regardless, 2x water changes per week for a bit, tweaked the macros slightly and have some tank water waiting to see off gased ph.

I topped the P. Erectus since it works better that way in a row, going for the giant stems now for a bit. I will do the same to the Pantanal once they grow out a bit more.

The trouble plant for a while has been R. Bonsai. I trimmed some stems that never re-grew, it went through a time with much smaller leaves and stunted growth. It's just starting to come back around so I got rid of all the crappy plant mass, and planted the tops. The other surprise is how fragile mermaid weed is...it is still transitioning and the tops keep popping off the old growth. The plant stem is so tiny I feel it's not normal.

R. Macrandra and P. Erectus have been bulletproof which is nice, the Macrandra is waiting to be sold so it will get trimmed early next week probably.


----------



## vvDO

Hendy8888 said:


> .
> 
> The other surprise is how fragile mermaid weed is...it is still transitioning and the tops keep popping off the old growth. The plant stem is so tiny I feel it's not normal.



Hi had the same issue from tissue culture, took some time until it fully transitioned.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Hendy8888

Saw a big improvement in plant growth the past couple days which is encouraging. It's amazing how when the plants take off the algae recedes at the exact same time. Last water change I did a spot dose of hydrogen peroxide and was surprised how effective it was with my trouble spots. I would have done it alot sooner if I had known. 

I think the turn around really had to do with 2x per week water changes to reset everything and I brought my dosing inline to what I thought would help. It could have been a better batch of csm+b too...(I will most likely roll my own soon but I have so much csm+b stock piled)

I was worried about the new layout not looking as good as I thought it should but now the bunches have been shaped a bit and the plants are growing better I am excited to see how everything comes together. 


P. Erectus is very large and am liking it. Very different look then before when it was branching, now the largest stem is easily 3.5" diameter.


The L. Pantanal has already peaked my interest, I'm letting it grow out a bit before topping. The last couple days I think it's just starting to straighten out the leaves which is encouraging, hopefully the growth continues to get better. 


I ended up re calibrating the ph probe and noticed co2 crept up a bit. The green neons have distinctive behavior in regards to high co2. They become skiddish and hide when anyone passes by. If the co2 is correct they are indifferent to what goes on outside the tank and continuously play in the current. They are more useful to me then any drop checker or ph chart could be in regards to proper co2 levels. They are even better then a ph probe since I can now use their behavior as a sign I need to recalibrate it.

FTS


----------



## DanG

Gorgeous and inspiring. Subscribing to this thread.


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## Looney

Amazing thread


----------



## tredford

Loving the new plants and new scape!


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## Hendy8888

Still a work in progress but here is a FTS just because. In the middle of leaving things alone for a bit to see the effects.


----------



## Quagulator

How am I only stumbling on this thread now? Fantastic tank, Canadian tank too  

If you're ever up for selling trimmings let me know! 

Love the layout, love your plant / fish selection, love the stand, just wow, great looking tank!


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## Hendy8888

Quagulator said:


> How am I only stumbling on this thread now? Fantastic tank, Canadian tank too
> 
> If you're ever up for selling trimmings let me know!
> 
> Love the layout, love your plant / fish selection, love the stand, just wow, great looking tank!


 Thank you! I'm sure we can work something out when it gets a bit warmer. I don't usually ship but for members here I will.


----------



## SingAlongWithTsing

damn, I kinda re do my stand now after going through your journal lol.

Are laminated 1x4's stronger than a 2x4?


----------



## Hendy8888

SingAlongWithTsing said:


> damn, I kinda re do my stand now after going through your journal lol.
> 
> 
> 
> Are laminated 1x4's stronger than a 2x4?


To be honest I couldn't say. The 1 x material is easier to work with since it's square and less warped. I laminated to 3/4" MDO plywood which is an exterior grade plywood (water resistant). On it's end it has pretty good strength since it's higher grade. I do feel the stand turned out incredibly solid. Another way would be to double up the 3/4" ply like DIY ADA stands, the plywood eliminates any racking you tend to get with 2x4 stands and that leads it to be solid. The weakest point to this stand is the front header since there is no verticle brace in the centre. I got around it by keeping the span as small as possible and using 1x6 instead of 1x4. If it was a 5 ft tank I would seriously consider laminating a piece of steel plate to the inside span so it doesn't sag. 

The material I would love to try is engineered dimensional lumber, easier to create a good looking stand that can be finished while still being extremely easy to work with. Unfortunately, in Canada still very expensive and uncommon.


----------



## Hendy8888

Looks like today is the day to do planted tank maintenance so I thought I would share as well. Tank is doing pretty good, I am two days behind on the maintenance and it needed a trim. I have a bit of a GSA problem (have for a while), really the only algae that is bothersome right now. My dosing is dialed in for after a trim but it consistently appears very rapidly once the plants all peak at the same time. I think I will be tweaking the macros up a bit on the same mix and see how that goes. Another option is to ramp up the dosing as the plants get thicker but the doser would need re-programmed every trim...

Pre trim

Post trim

The S. Repens, H. Araguaia and even the AR mini are going to get hacked back to the nubs next week I think. I love how dense they grow in and don't have it in me to rip them out and re-plant. (It would make a mess too)

Beauty shots..


Since everyone shows off their rainbows....this is about as good as my fish pics go.

I don't get to see the tops all the time due to ripple.

I love that purple..


----------



## AguaScape

Hendy8888 said:


> I don't get to see the tops all the time due to ripple.
> 
> I love that purple..


Loving your tank. The color flow is fantastic. Please tell me what this plant is. I must get some.


----------



## Hendy8888

AguaScape said:


> Loving your tank. The color flow is fantastic. Please tell me what this plant is. I must get some.


Ludwigia Pantanal, I feel like it can be better than how I'm growing it. Regardless its good enough for me. AFA stocks it as tissue culture if your around those parts.


----------



## Greggz

Every time I see this tank I like it more and more. 

I don't which one I am more impressed with, the plant health or the artistic vision.

Very well done. One of my favorites for sure.


----------



## Immortal1

Hendy8888 said:


> Beauty shots..
> 
> 
> Since everyone shows off their rainbows....this is about as good as my fish pics go.



Really like that FTS - would be a joy to look at on a daily basis! As for the rainbow pics... I am guessing it is pretty impressive to see 50-100 little flashes of color darting around the tank. Don't change.

Bump - just noticed the little "tuft" above the tank - nice!


----------



## Hendy8888

Greggz said:


> Every time I see this tank I like it more and more.
> 
> I don't which one I am more impressed with, the plant health or the artistic vision.
> 
> Very well done. One of my favorites for sure.


Thanks Greggz! Really don't know what I'm doing in both regards...I wish I could spot deficiencies like others can. I know something is up based on leaf size and shape but just guess what might fix it. For example the S. Repens gets a wavy leaf and seems a bit brittle.

As for artistic vision....sometimes I like to think about all the rules I break in both Dutch and Nature style aquascapes. I think I would love to see a proper fruit stand style tank the whole way across.

Rules are great, especially for show dogs but this one is a family pet. I basically just do what I think I will like and it evolves.


----------



## Ken Keating1

Beautiful tank H8, it's really coming along nicely, I like the layout, colors, plant health, presentation, it's all very nice.

_"I wish I could spot deficiencies like others can"_ Interesting statement, but I'm not sure if anyone can truly spot all deficiencies, and I'm not sure a non-perfect plant has deficiencies. In my tank I've seen quite a few instances where I'll have 6 to 8 stems of the same species, six are doing great, and two are performing poorly. I feel the non-performing ones are just non-performing, period, no matter what's in the water column. Plus, almost all folks are tweeking their doses here and there, why, because it's impossible to ever fine a mix that keeps all plants happy. Well, that's my 2 cents worth!


----------



## Hendy8888

Immortal1 said:


> Really like that FTS - would be a joy to look at on a daily basis! As for the rainbow pics... I am guessing it is pretty impressive to see 50-100 little flashes of color darting around the tank. Don't change.
> 
> Bump - just noticed the little "tuft" above the tank - nice!


Every time I pass by the tank I get side tracked...it never gets old. I wish it was in our main living area but theres just not a good spot for it. I do love watching 100 green neons follow each other around the tank. It's a first for me and I think it suits this aquascape too. I have 4 large Dantum angelfish that were supposed to go in this tank but now I don't think they will...at least not for a while. Even IF they don't eat the neons they will the shrimp and might take away from the feel of the tank.


----------



## Greggz

Hendy8888 said:


> Rules are great, especially for show dogs but this one is a family pet. I basically just do what I think I will like and it evolves.


I have the same philosophy.

Mine's been evolving non stop for years, and continues to this day. That's what keeps it interesting for me.


----------



## Hendy8888

I don't think I can say this confirms my suspicion yet but I did up the macros by 50% since I will be away from the tank for the next 8 days.


----------



## Hendy8888

Happened to be walking by when the t5 bulbs were warming up today. It caught my eye and now I wish I had dimmable ballasts.


----------



## VioletAqua

Great looking tank!


----------



## NEKvt

So good.


----------



## Jamo33

Hendy8888 said:


> Happened to be walking by when the t5 bulbs were warming up today. It caught my eye and now I wish I had dimmable ballasts.


Just stop. That is not fair.


----------



## burr740

Hendy8888 said:


> Happened to be walking by when the t5 bulbs were warming up today. It caught my eye and now I wish I had dimmable ballasts.


Thats a sweet freakin pic. Such a unique layout


----------



## ipkiss

Hey @Hendy8888, 

I tried looking back in the journal but may have missed the post, but what's that purple stuff on the lower left front ? On the rocks? It's right above some green stems and from afar, it's a pretty cool illusion. Looks like a green stem plant with purple tops. 

thanks


----------



## Hendy8888

@ipkiss it is just Ludwigia glandulosa behind Rotala bonsai. I need to tidy up the bonsai into more of a triangle but it hasn't been growing as well since it got stunted some time ago.


----------



## ipkiss

That's awesome! The way you keep it short makes it feel like something else entirely! It's the second time I saw that plant independently and it's caught my eye. This means I must get some!


----------



## Hendy8888

@ipkiss that’s about 8 weeks of growth from tissue culture, slow growing for sure which is nice. I would definitely recommend it, nice large stems with deep colour, the right lighting makes it look purplish but it’s definitely a deep red.


----------



## Greggz

What do you Canadian's have in the water up there????

Seems to be a lot of really great tanks from North of the border.

Beautiful tank shot!


----------



## Quagulator

Greggz said:


> What do you Canadian's have in the water up there????
> 
> Seems to be a lot of really great tanks from North of the border.
> 
> Beautiful tank shot!


We have winter.... Lots of time to stay indoors and obsess over our tanks


----------



## Greggz

Quagulator said:


> We have winter.... Lots of time to stay indoors and obsess over our tanks


LOL maybe that's it.

I'm no different, I can be in Canada in half an hour!!


----------



## Quagulator

Greggz said:


> LOL maybe that's it.
> 
> I'm no different, I can be in Canada in half an hour!!


Bring a months worth of trimmings please >


----------



## ipkiss

Yea. Err. Right, that's the reason my tank is a mess. I'm too busy outside tending to my tropical orchids. Sounds like a great excuse. Running with it!


----------



## MSaxen

Hendy8888 said:


> Rules are great, especially for show dogs but this one is a family pet. I basically just do what I think I will like and it evolves.


I think I am going to print this and hang it on my tank as a reminder. Absolutely love that attitude. Just found your journal this morning, and still have a couple more pages to go, but I felt compelled to comment on your quote. Stunning setup from stand to plumbing to tank and inhabitants. Subscribed.


----------



## Hendy8888

@Greggz Theres 7ppm of something in there I'm not sure of... just hope its not chlorine, I should be changing out the carbon block on the RO. I have to say I miss seeing @slipfinger tank updates too but I do understand planted tanks and forums arnt real important in the grand scheme of life all the time.

To be honest I think the availability of tissue culture plants north of the boarder has really impacted planted aquariums here. Big Al's has also made the Tropica line of products widely available including aqua soil. Unfortunately, most of the rare (to Canada) stems come from the US and I would say shipping is almost double what you guys pay to ship domestically.


----------



## Hendy8888

Quagulator said:


> Bring a months worth of trimmings please >


I double this!!! Make sure you get a large order from Burr first too before you come.


----------



## annabel1066

wow. wow. wow. beautiful artistry, not to mention technique and set up. so much to learn... but so glad you shared


----------



## Hendy8888

Here is a little photo journey of a standard tank maintenance. This is common practice for most but maybe there's a tip or trick that someone can take away from it. A simple rule is if theres anything you don't like seeing inside your tank then remove it..this means detritus, algae, dead leaves, overgrown plants, dirty filters. We have all seen dirty tanks asking for help and all the recommendations that result, just clean everything and clean it often, be more persistent then the algae is. Its hard work and annoying but it levels the playing field while trying to balance the aquarium. 

No pics but a couple plants got trimmed and opened up a spot for a new plant, I did this with the filter running since it was a small job and the aquasoil dust got swept away.

Next turned the filter off or recirculate the sump in my case and drained 5 gal into a bucket. This is to reduce splashing over the rim with agressive scrubbing. I use a standard kitchen scouring pad and go to town, takes care of GSA with some aggressiveness. Being agressive will help stir up any detritus and it speeds up the process.

Use a white hotel card or similar for getting the substrate line. White helps you see the algae.


Blow off the plants/hardscape/substrate with a baster, get all you can into the water column.

No baster? Fluf your plants by hand.

Make your water changes as quick as you can, I use a 1.5" sump pump hose with the spare return pump. How I store the hose since its hard to coil.

The one thing that slows me down is small livestock trying to get sucked up, this probably doubles the water change time unfortunately.

Three minutes later..

A quick wipe on exposed glass to pick up the residual from the water level reducing. Better to remove it then putting it back into clean water column.

Admire your tank a bit with a new perspective.

Throw the pump into the pre made heated water and the other end into the tank.

Three minutes and its full

Admire the top view while it's calm...take some pics to share on planted tank forums...





I turn the flow back on and increase the pump to almost max...this picks up any dust or detritus that settled and takes it to the filter socks/pads. It's quite a current and I let it run for a few minutes.

Rinse off the mesh screen that shrimp still get past... 

I have figured out that the top of the screen needs to be at water level to get the skimming I want. Any higher and it stops skimming, this took a while to figure out!


Lids on...I really like this overflow.

Clean the glass with a microfiber towel with some RO or distilled water, no water stains.

Admire your tank...it ALWAYS looks better after a water change.



I let the filter run for a few hours to catch anything that might be in the water column before changing out the pre-filter, socks, and filter pads. If anyone has any tips or tricks that speed up their maintenance I would love to hear them!


----------



## ipkiss

Hendy8888 said:


> Use a white hotel card or similar for getting the substrate line. White helps you see the algae.
> 
> 
> The one thing that slows me down is small livestock trying to get sucked up, this probably doubles the water change time unfortunately.


Very cool set of pics and post. 

For the hotel card, I managed to attach mine onto an algae scraper so I dont have to reach so deep 

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?p=10863409

And will some poret foam or something similar cut to wrap around the pump intake prevent suction victims? But eh, 3 mins is no slouch already!


----------



## Hendy8888

ipkiss said:


> Very cool set of pics and post.
> 
> For the hotel card, I managed to attach mine onto an algae scraper so I dont have to reach so deep
> 
> https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?p=10863409
> 
> And will some poret foam or something similar cut to wrap around the pump intake prevent suction victims? But eh, 3 mins is no slouch already!


Good idea with the algae scraper for those with deep tanks or don't want to get their arms wet. I use one on another tank with a rickety stand but find the handle always hits the light which slows me down. If I could find the Dennerle Cleanator I would like to try it. It has a fine stainless steel wool scrubbing side that apparently won't scratch glass and goes through GSA like butter.

I havn't tried poret foam around the pump, only a thin layer of filter fiber and it restricted the flow considerably. The thing is you want any leaves and detritus to go down the drain but not the shrimp. I will be trying a large cell foam or matala mat for the pre filter in the overflow though. More for when I'm away from the tank for 7+ days and can't change out the pre-filter.

What are people using that they recommend? Shrimp are a going concern for overflow users, I want something that doesn't clog but won't let shrimp through.


----------



## ipkiss

Hendy8888 said:


> If I could find the Dennerle Cleanator I would like to try it. It has a fine stainless steel wool scrubbing side that apparently won't scratch glass and goes through GSA like butter.


interesting. I wonder how rust resistant it is. otherwise, it's just one more thing to replace. I see my (and your) plastic card lasting a lot longer.


----------



## Hendy8888

ipkiss said:


> interesting. I wonder how rust resistant it is. otherwise, it's just one more thing to replace. I see my (and your) plastic card lasting a lot longer.


George Farmer uses them and seems to like them alot in his videos, it would replace the scouring pad (same thing but stainless instead of plastic). Actually his video is what made me try the hotel key card around the substrate too.


----------



## Jamo33

Great maintenance guide, very useful. However, you missed one of the biggest things and I'm really surprised you've gotten away with it so far. You cannot maintain a tank in good condition unless you sit back and drink a hard earned beer after all your work.
No need to thank me, just edit this step into your post and no one will ever know.

In all seriousness, I love this tank so much. Good work as always.


----------



## Quagulator

Jamo33 said:


> Great maintenance guide, very useful. However, you missed one of the biggest things and I'm really surprised you've gotten away with it so far. You cannot maintain a tank in good condition unless you sit back and drink a hard earned beer after all your work.
> No need to thank me, just edit this step into your post and no one will ever know.
> 
> In all seriousness, I love this tank so much. Good work as always.


Why just one??!! :grin2:


----------



## Jamo33

@Quagulator you raise a good point. 
As many beverages as required until you have truly appreciated your piece of art.


----------



## Hendy8888

Jamo33 said:


> You cannot maintain a tank in good condition unless you sit back and drink a hard earned beer after all your work.
> No need to thank me, just edit this step into your post and no one will ever know.


Lol, very true but that's the summer maintenance schedule, winter in Canada calls for your favorite rye whiskey!


----------



## Hendy8888

Apparently I'm out of touch with dosing micros since the last time I kept a tank. Have plenty of CSM+B to last a lifetime but I think it's time to get a lifetime supply of all the non chelated micros..

What mg scale does everyone recommend to measure 7mg of Nickle(II) Sulfate - NiSO4.6H2O that doesn't break the bank?


----------



## ipkiss

https://www.amazon.com/Zilink-Milligram-Back-lit-Function-Batteries/dp/B075Q44TC9?ref_=fsclp_pl_dp_6

Or this 

https://www.amazon.com/Smart-Weigh-GEM20-Precision-Milligram/dp/B00ESHDGOI?ref_=fsclp_pl_dp_5

Is what I've seen most people use. I have the second one. Think @Greggz has the first one 

7mg is a laugh. Drop several granules in and you're there! Like @burr740 said one time, these silly scales dont even sense anything until 5mg sometimes. But anything more sensitive would start being cost prohibitive I bet.


----------



## chayos00

Hendy8888 said:


> Apparently I'm out of touch with dosing micros since the last time I kept a tank. Have plenty of CSM+B to last a lifetime but I think it's time to get a lifetime supply of all the non chelated micros..
> 
> What mg scale does everyone recommend to measure 7mg of Nickle(II) Sulfate - NiSO4.6H2O that doesn't break the bank?


I have two scales a 2kg and a 20g one. It is funny though trying to weight something so tiny, grain by grain you weigh that one. I always find picking up the little container and putting it back down after a change seems to be the best bet to get the reading to update. 

American Weigh Scales SC-2KG-A Digital Personal Nutrition Scale with AC Adapter https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008FSHPNO/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_eKwQCbF171S05

American Weigh Scales GEMINI-20 Portable MilliGram Scale, 20 by 0.001 G https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0012TDNAM/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_sJwQCb6AEJSRS

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## AguaScape

chayos00 said:


> I have two scales a 2kg and a 20g one. It is funny though trying to weight something so tiny, grain by grain you weigh that one. I always find picking up the little container and putting it back down after a change seems to be the best bet to get the reading to update.
> 
> American Weigh Scales SC-2KG-A Digital Personal Nutrition Scale with AC Adapter https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008FSHPNO/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_eKwQCbF171S05
> 
> American Weigh Scales GEMINI-20 Portable MilliGram Scale, 20 by 0.001 G https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0012TDNAM/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_sJwQCb6AEJSRS
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


I got the 100 by 0.01 American Weigh Scale. It is great for macros and CSMB mixes. Real pleased with the quality of the brand. I will be getting the GEMINI-20 when I start mixing my own micros.


----------



## Hendy8888

@ipkiss @chayos00 @AguaScape Thanks for the links, I appreciate the help.


----------



## Hendy8888

Finally on the flowmeter bandwagon, snagged a Dwyer RMA-1-SSV on Amazon for $25 that I couldn't pass up. Bought it as BV version but turned out to be SSV, nice bonus. At first installed it inline after the Fabco NV to find out a starting point that is currently being injected (0.3 SCFH (140cc/m))and then removed the Fabco and hard plumbed it to the regulator.

Don't mind the messy wires, I'm not shoving everything into the cable slot until after the lights are finalized.



Tested it to make sure it works, time will tell if I like it. So far so good, I rely so much on the ph controller, if that ever failed on the fish would be done. Now the flowmeter will allow fine tuning to slow down the co2 a bit I think.


----------



## hbosman

You need a UPS for power outage. ;-)


----------



## Hendy8888

Tank was getting pretty overgrown, especially the slow growers. Decided to cut them right back, it felt good to get the mass out. Not much change, still getting some good GSA if I go past 7 days without a water change/cleaning.
Before

After


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## vvDO

Hendy8888 said:


>




Love this pic... sera o nip?

Oh yeah and the scape continues to look amazing!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Hendy8888

vvDO said:


> Love this pic... sera o nip?


Yes, there pretty handy for small fish, everyone seems to love them.


----------



## Hendy8888

Thought I would mark the last day of CSM+B with some Macrandra. I actually switched over a couple days ago and wanted to keep the micros the same by doing a CSM+B clone but I fudged the Boron and it came out a bit higher. Most plants seemed to be okay with the variations in CSM+B but I swear I could tell bottle to bottle with the Pantanal. 

I will say mixing up the new micros is a royal pain in the butt. Now that I visualized how much of each ingredient "should" be in the CSM+B it's a bit of a joke how different each mix must have been.


----------



## Greggz

Hendy8888 said:


> Thought I would mark the last day of CSM+B with some Macrandra. I actually switched over a couple days ago and wanted to keep the micros the same by doing a CSM+B clone but I fudged the Boron and it came out a bit higher. Most plants seemed to be okay with the variations in CSM+B but I swear I could tell bottle to bottle with the Pantanal.
> 
> I will say mixing up the new micros is a royal pain in the butt. Now that I visualized how much of each ingredient "should" be in the CSM+B it's a bit of a joke how different each mix must have been.


That is a great all around post.

Pantanal will tell you how it feels. 

Love your reaction to mixing your own micros. Mine too.

And good to see an update. Keep them coming.


----------



## cl3537

Hendy8888 said:


> I will say mixing up the new micros is a royal pain in the butt.


I know its after the fact and you probably won't need to do it again for a while.

But for the really low weight ones like Boron, Nickel, Copper, Molybdnum and Zinc it would be best to make up a 500ml solution of just these and then take 10 ml of that solution and add it to your main solution. That way you can can weigh out more accurately 50X the weight instead of trying to measure out accurately 7mg of Boron(which is impossible without a $1000+ laboratory scale) you could weight out 350mg.

So then you would weigh out your other micros add 490ml of distilled water and then add the 10ml of the first solution to the second one.


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## Hendy8888

That sounds like a great idea, how long do you think the 500ml solutions would last? Thats at least a 4 year supply for me, since I'm not dosing Ni my lowest weight is 9mg in 375ml of Na2MoO4.2H2O and 25mg in 375ml of CuSO4.5H2O. Boron ended up being 497mg of H3BO3 in 375ml.

I was thinking of changing to 800ml dosing containers forsure but if I have learnt anything from CSM+B it's that the absolute value of our micros really doesn't matter to most plants, ballpark values work just fine. That being said I think most on here are sufficiently obsessed that we will try to get them as accuate as we can.


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## Greggz

Hendy8888 said:


> That being said I think most on here are sufficiently obsessed that we will try to get them as accuate as we can.


True Dat!:wink2:


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## Hendy8888

So as anticipated the big winners from the new micros was L. Pantanal and R. Wallichii. Unfortunately, they showed the best growth only shortly as I decided to cut the phosphate dosing that crept up to 18ppm /week back down to 7ppm. Needless to say Pantanal likes a bit of phosphate in the water column and it stunted. The only reason I have been chasing phosphates is to get a bit in the water column even though it's dosed daily. Really only change my dosing to limit speed of growth, to see if it helps with the GSA and ofcourse how it impacts the Pantanal.

Another winner I believe is Lilaeopsis brasiliensis, it's spreading everywhere. I didn't mind a little mixing with it's neighbours but it's a problem now.

Not the best that the Proserpinaca Palustris has looked but it's being propagated and filling in nicely. It is indeed a very slow transitioning plant from emersed. That Monte Carlo on the rock above it grew from a piece that got lodged into a hole..I hope it wasn't a mistake letting it attach to the rock.

Full tank shot, nothing new really, the background plants got yanked and the tops replanted today.


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## Hendy8888

Quick photo update:


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## Quagulator

Not to be a pain, but do you have a spreadsheet or a summary of your parameters, water source, dosing and water change schedule? 

Your tank looks really nice, everything from the layout, to the plant selection to the stand to the lights / canopy.


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## Hendy8888

Quagulator said:


> Not to be a pain, but do you have a spreadsheet or a summary of your parameters, water source, dosing and water change schedule?
> 
> 
> 
> Your tank looks really nice, everything from the layout, to the plant selection to the stand to the lights / canopy.


No pain, I needed to update my spreadsheet anyways. Nitrates I'm happy with, phosphates have been bouncing around to see if it helps GSA and Pantanal since the soil is sucking it up, didn't notice any major differences until I cut it drastically and the Pantanal wasn't (isn't) happy. 

There's a few plants that arn't happy and there is algae covering all of the lava rock if you look close. It makes them look darker but you really have to look close to see it. Its mainly GSA and then short BBA, I usually hit some of the areas with hydrogen peroxide at water change if I have time. It only bothers me when it spreads to the old leaves on the slow growers. 

I would love to still send you some Pantanal if I get it to grow half descent, this tank really isn't dosed to make it happy but it's fun trying anyways.


----------



## Hendy8888

@Ventchur Good idea with the reflections...


Quick mid week water change since I will be away for the next 4 days and wanted to keep the good progress going.

After water change.

Wide angle, I like when the two islands that also look like one big island.


Okay enough pics for one day.


----------



## Greggz

Wow the tank just keeps getting better and better!

That's a really beautiful group of pics. Tank is looking like a piece of art. 

Very, very well done.


----------



## Hendy8888

Greggz said:


> Wow the tank just keeps getting better and better!
> 
> 
> 
> That's a really beautiful group of pics. Tank is looking like a piece of art.
> 
> 
> 
> Very, very well done.


Thanks! It has me thinking of trimming and keeping the tops for a bit to see how it goes. A little bit more effort but the tank will have a more stable plant mass with healthier leaves.


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## Ken Keating1

Great looking tank H8! I like the arrangement, plant health and colors, well done.

Out of curiosity, how often are you trimming the P. Erectus? It looks gorgeous. I had it at one point, but removed it to make room for newer plants.


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## Quagulator

Tropica soil right? 

Could you give me the good and the bad in your experience with it?

Also, how it would compare to ADA, the nutrients it may or may not have? 

Tank looks fantastic btw! great pics.


----------



## Hendy8888

Ken Keating1 said:


> Great looking tank H8! I like the arrangement, plant health and colors, well done.
> 
> 
> 
> Out of curiosity, how often are you trimming the P. Erectus? It looks gorgeous. I had it at one point, but removed it to make room for newer plants.




Thanks Ken, I’m really enjoying seeing your tank thread too. The P. Erectus gets trimmed every 3 weeks I’d say, It almost needs a trim in those pics. It’s one of my favourites and grows incredibly well in this tank. The only thing I don’t like about it is the large roots it grows get attached to the lava rock underneath the substrate and pulls it to the surface.


----------



## Hendy8888

Quagulator said:


> Tropica soil right?
> 
> 
> 
> Could you give me the good and the bad in your experience with it?
> 
> 
> 
> Also, how it would compare to ADA, the nutrients it may or may not have?
> 
> 
> 
> Tank looks fantastic btw! great pics.




Thanks Quagulator, yes it’s Tropica soil. Only used Netlea in the past so can’t compare to ADA. It holds it shape well (doesn’t seem to break down easy). I noticed there was no ammonia spike at all with it which I liked. It does seem to suck up phosphate even being multiple months old. I would use it again, cheapest option we are going to find locally I think. Ordered mine in from Big Al’s when they had a whole store sale at some point.


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## Ken Keating1

Hendy8888 said:


> Thanks Ken, I’m really enjoying seeing your tank thread too. The P. Erectus gets trimmed every 3 weeks I’d say, It almost needs a trim in those pics. It’s one of my favourites and grows incredibly well in this tank. The only thing I don’t like about it is the large roots it grows get attached to the lava rock underneath the substrate and pulls it to the surface.


Thanks H8. Good to know how often the trims are occurring, I thought you had reached the holy grail of planted tanks, beautiful plants that grew slow without having to trim! I had the same issues, fast large root growth that would bring up a lot of substrate when pulled. But it's one of my favorites also, a beautiful plant, and yours are perfect, great job!


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## Hendy8888

@Greggz This trims for you! Everything that got trimmed was topped and tossed the bottoms, 18 days since the rotala's were last done the same way. I have to say I am happy with the results.
Pre trim

Post trim




Macrandra ready to be re-planted

New addition, hopefully it doesn't enjoy long walks outside the aquarium.

@Ken Keating1 P. Erectus went 29 days between trimmings best I can tell, I feel like growth is at a sweet spot right now for that plant.


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## Greggz

Wow! Getting better and better all time.

That is a really beautiful presentation.

Very, very well done!


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## Grobbins48

Beautiful! 

How often do you trim the carpet? I just tore up a ton on monte carlo and did a small replant as I let it get out of control and trapped a rainbow under it!


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## Ken Keating1

Hendy8888 said:


> @Ken Keating1 P. Erectus went 29 days between trimmings best I can tell, I feel like growth is at a sweet spot right now for that plant.


Definitely you've reached nice sweet spot. Your tank is one of the few that looks great post trim; all the plants are neatly configured, like a perfectly manicured garden. Plus I like how you've taken stem plants and arranged them by aesthetics, and then trimmed them accordingly to maintain a particular height within the parameters of your landscape. I don't see that very often here on TPT, I feel your tank is really both unique and beautiful at the same time.


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## Hendy8888

@Grobbins48 I try not to let it get too thick, normally I would say every two months. The trim is pretty agressive but try to leave a shade of green. If you trim to mostly white stems it will take a very long time to recover. That being said currently the monte carlo is pretty angry at me, it doesn't like hydrogen peroxide and I have been spot treating rather heavily to areas surrounding it.


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## Hendy8888

Pissed off Glandulosa from trimming it..

Happy Glandulosa, different part of the tank. Higher PAR location for sure but the first photo were happy not too long ago. Same plant, same tank, very different growth.

Also like to point out the miniature Pantanal in that photo compared to the H'ra', I still like it though.

Biggest concern as of late is the S. Repens has decided to do a mass melt, theres lots of it and its clogging the overflow. I'm not worried about the long term health of the plant, it will bounce back with new growth when it's done melting but it might take a few weeks of continually dropping leaves first. I might give it an aggressive trim to help it along, not sure yet. 

One positive is the water is looking extra crystal clear these days, maybe since I put the felt socks back in instead of the nylon.


----------



## Ventchur

That side shot..


----------



## bpb

Tanks like this make me wish I had the space to get back into the hobby. Spectacular work


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Hendy8888

Thanks Ventchur and bpb!
I did a little trimming yesterday, it started out like this:

And ended up like this:

There was no mercy given to the S.Repens, I’m curious how it will respond. The leaves were slowly shedding from the bottom up so I helped it out a bit...



So much for that side view..


----------



## ipkiss

whoa! there's fish in there! 


The fish is like.. 

now what .. 

yea, that patch we were fighting for yesterday? all gone!!!



.... 

speechless.


----------



## Discusluv

I actually like the trimmed look much, much better. 
The detail is impeccable. The rock, the texture, the color. 
The fish enhances this intricacy.


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## chayos00

Those S. Repens should come back, may take a bit, but I've done the same without issues.

Bump: Those S. Repens should come back, may take a bit, but I've done the same without issues.


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## Hendy8888

ipkiss said:


> whoa! there's fish in there!
> 
> 
> The fish is like..
> 
> now what ..
> 
> yea, that patch we were fighting for yesterday? all gone!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ....
> 
> speechless.


They are normally out an about but lately they are schooling more so might have to check my ph probe for drift. I think my daughter is out of frame on the first pic and scared them into hiding.



Discusluv said:


> I actually like the trimmed look much, much better.
> The detail is impeccable. The rock, the texture, the color.
> The fish enhances this intricacy.


I too enjoy the trimmed look, this one was a little excessive but it was getting too overgrown and slow growers were being affected by algae on old growth. Bonus is that I won’t have to trim during the summer too much and can enjoy other things.



chayos00 said:


> Those S. Repens should come back, may take a bit, but I've done the same without issues.
> 
> Bump: Those S. Repens should come back, may take a bit, but I've done the same without issues.


That is good to hear, I have cut the entire stem off at ground level and they came back once before, I am only concerned since they were already stressed and dropping leaves. Hopefully the shape fills in and don’t have to take it down to substrate.
Once a plant becomes established they are very weedy and just want to grow. There’s H. Pinnatifida that keep growing in areas I long removed them from but a little bit of stem got stuck in the lava rock pores, next thing you know it’s back.

I will probably be removing all the ground cover at some point to thin it out and replant, the Monte Carlo might be replaced with UG at the same time.


----------



## Hendy8888

S. Repens looks like it will be just fine, showing new growth on the bare stems. Upped the calcium last week, felt like it was a bit low and have seen some improvement already. Some of the troublesome plants perked up and are showing better growth then I have seen in a while, hopefully the trend continues. 

Tillandsia putting on a show.


----------



## Here_To_Learn

Wow. this is absolutely insane!!! the level of craftsmanship is crazy!! I had no idea that DIY projects can be so polished.
are you a professional cabinet maker and plumber?  ;D

seriously though I learned a lot by just reading this thread. looking forward to seeing more updates.


----------



## Hendy8888

A few observations I've made the past few weeks:

Increase in calcium absolutely transformed the L. pantanal and R. wallichi. Both are showing more normal growth after increasing it by 8ppm. Shortly after I realized that the micro dosing was incorrect, I was adding only 10ml/day instead of the 15ml/day that the micro solution is made for. This had been going on for some time after making the last batch of fertilizers. It's been a week or two since and during maintenance today I noticed larger leaves on quite a few species, especially the rotala's.

Another observation is that the fish have been very shy, they hide anytime theres movement in the room. More so then they ever have been. This has me checking the co2 but they seem to be just as shy in the mornings when alot of the co2 is off gassed.

Things I want to change are:
Slowly reduce PO4 dosing.

Increase the Zinc to more modern levels. This was a non chelated CSM+b clone and I've proven to myself that both grow plants just fine at CSM ratios.

Build a led strip light for extended viewing time.

Since there are no fish to be seen here are some plant photo's.

H'ra' and pantanal looking better than ever.


Macrandra is very fat considering this is all new growth from last trim. Normally it only gets this large if I replant the tops.

I love how the top of the leaf looks like pearl paint. (hard to photograph)

Trimming recovery.


That side view is comming back.

FTS

Full setup shot

First week in a long time where I think the GSA and bba are receeding, hopefully I didn't jinx it.


----------



## Hendy8888

Did some trimming and took a pic. Ran out of KNO3 and the local hydroponics store had some Ca(NO3)2 so on a whim I am using a mix of the two. Only problem was it doesn't mix with KH2PO4 so made a separate container for that.

R. Macrandra Caterpillar and L. Aromatica mini starting to get established. 


Monte Carlo needs a trim but not motivated since I want to replace it at some point.


----------



## Ken Keating1

Wow, beautiful colors on the Mermaid Weed, very nice, along with all the other plants!


----------



## Hendy8888

Thanks Ken! Mermaid weed is a winner forsure, it makes me want to try out Myriophyllum tuberculatum too one day.


----------



## MiamiArt

Wow, congrats. Truly beautiful aquarium.


----------



## Quagulator

Hendy8888 said:


> it makes me want to try out Myriophyllum tuberculatum too one day.


I hope you like trimming 4x per week if that's the case


----------



## Hendy8888

Quagulator said:


> I hope you like trimming 4x per week if that's the case


...Not so much, I'm getting flashbacks to when I grew Hygrophila Polysperma 'any of them'.


----------



## Hendy8888

So the past couple weeks have seen a major lower leaf ejection from S. Repens, H. Araguaia, A.R. Mini, and H. Pinnatifida. This is the second time for the S. Repens not too far apart. It's a major PITA with the overflow clogging, I resort to taking out the steel mesh insert and letting the leaves go into the pre filter which mitigates a flood. 

That's no big deal and is easy to clean every couple days but the shrimp are also free to make it through and are drawn to the decomposing leaves. If anyone knows a method of separating leaves from shrimp in an overflow....just take my money now!

After ignoring the situation in the overflow for a while I saw the shrimp had eaten a ton of leaves on the sponge. The sponge should have been basically clogged but only a fraction was there.

At the same time both the L. Pantanal and R. wallichii immediately stunted hard. Sorta frustrating since my last update had some of the best growth I've seen in this tank.


I did some testing and based on the plant colour I knew the NO3 was low so I did a one time dose. Ignored it for another week.
H. Pinnatifida was getting extreme pinholes and losing leaves so I threw in some K since I have been slowly reducing it. The bump in No3 sped up the growth of all the plants but also the algae. 

Still looked decent even through it had some problems.


I got fed up with leaves and shrimp so I hacked everything back that was a culprit. The monte carlo was overgrown and I promised to give a local some so shortly after it got leveled too. 

I actually felt alot better with this

Some plants were were doing just fine. R. Mac. Caterpillar


I knew I trimmed the monte Carlo too short and there was alot of dead but I left it in just to see. The shrimp ate it but also resulted in roots bulding up in the overflow so I just ripped it all out and finally did a good vacuum of the front substrate.

As it sits today.


Something needs done with this...but I'm ignoring it still.


The Glandulosa is on the mend, Pantanal might be a goner and wallichii shows promise. I find it interesting that the Pantanal and wallichii are on the same schedule, when one stunts so does the other. I can't confirm it's wallichii forsure though, it was a mislabled AFA tissue culture (Rotala sp. Vietnam) I think.

I have just gone back to the very 1st edition of remineralizer, the ever changing water conditions continue. Next macros will be with KNO3, just don't like how the calcium nitrate mixes. I had 1 week where everything was happy...I have no idea why though lol.


----------



## Greggz

Good to see an update.

Pantanal and Wallachii are fickle friends and are quick to tell you if they don't like something. 

My Pantanal does best with higher NO3 and ferts in general. Is also sensitive to CO2 levels. Likes a lot of everything.

Wallachii very sensitive to KH swings. Any chance KH has changed at all? KH level can also have an effect on CO2 levels.

Then again, could be something something completely different. 

I just love this tank in any condition. Very well presented. You must spend a LOT of time trimming.


----------



## Hendy8888

Ya that's why I upped the N03, saw the Glandulosa straighten it's leaves but might be too late for the Pantanal. It's a tight rope to be at the nitrates I want for slow growth but not stunt the Ludwigia's.

When I upped the Ca and the Pantanal perked up I can't help but think that instead it was the major trim on everything else that led to nutrients being available for the Pantanal. Whatever happened the growth looked better and algae was receding big-time. 

Kh has been remineralized to 1.0 for a bit, I did test the tank and as suspected it was a bit lower I think. Today the new water went back to 1.2 kh, mainly since its the source of K.

I'm just having fun tweaking things currently. I have thought about doing full pps since it's not too far off from that already. Even might get out the old drop checker to dial in the co2...


----------



## Ken Keating1

Wow, that's wild on the rapid change on everything. 

For the leaf screen, small bottle brushes in front of the SS screen would help out. The brushes hold back the leafs in a loose configuration. Something like a mini version of this as an example.

Monte Carlo is interesting, a few of us have had it but end up taking it out because it gets overgrown.

Keep posting on how the tank's progressing, it's good to see updates.


----------



## Hendy8888

Ken Keating1 said:


> Wow, that's wild on the rapid change on everything.
> 
> For the leaf screen, small bottle brushes in front of the SS screen would help out. The brushes hold back the leafs in a loose configuration. Something like a mini version of this as an example.
> 
> Monte Carlo is interesting, a few of us have had it but end up taking it out because it gets overgrown.
> 
> Keep posting on how the tank's progressing, it's good to see updates.




I’ll have to try the brush idea, those shrimp are crafty though, seem to get through anything. I like the Monte Carlo since it’s easy, it doesn’t seem to overtake any of the stems at all and S. Repens won out and spread over it at one point. I will probably keep it growing on the rock and replace the carpet with UG to try something different. The only plant that won’t stay to it’s own spot is Lilaeopsis brasiliensis, found a runner in the middle of the tank when ripping up the Monte Carlo even.


----------



## Ken Keating1

The shrimp could get through the brushes, but it depends on how much overlap there is in the brushes. But the intent is the mesh screen would be in place which keeps the shrimp out, and the brushes keep the leaves from reaching the mesh screen and plugging the screen up.


----------



## Hendy8888

Ken Keating1 said:


> The shrimp could get through the brushes, but it depends on how much overlap there is in the brushes. But the intent is the mesh screen would be in place which keeps the shrimp out, and the brushes keep the leaves from reaching the mesh screen and plugging the screen up.


The way the screen is designed the brushes would have to go outside the teeth. Not something I want permanently for aesthetics but sure could work out well short term for plant meltings. Thanks for the tip.


----------



## SingAlongWithTsing

hendy did you cut out the acrylic pieces for the sump your self? or did you buy em from modular also?


----------



## Hendy8888

SingAlongWithTsing said:


> hendy did you cut out the acrylic pieces for the sump your self? or did you buy em from modular also?


Cut them myself on a table saw, I didn't have a nice blade so there was some chipping but not horrible. After that I decided against making my own overflow and am glad I went with Modular Marine. Once you factor in a new blade and the cost of materials I couldn't have made it any cheaper and It wouldn't have been as nice.

The acrylic is bonded together with hobby grade cyanoacrylate glue. I didn't want to buy a whole bottle of weld just for a couple seams. The stuff basically feels welded and the acrylic will break before the glue does. 

For the acrylic to glass areas I used GE SCS1200 silicone and it holds to acrylic very well.


----------



## PurdueGK

Really nice tank!! I am getting closer to setting up my tank. Probably some time in December or January. I am going with a Monte Carlo carpet as well and was having a tough time with selecting my midground and background plants. I was worried that if I went with too much red it would look unnatural. But with a solid green carpet like you have, mostly red midground and background plants looks wonderful!


----------



## chayos00

Hendy8888 said:


> Cut them myself on a table saw, I didn't have a nice blade so there was some chipping but not horrible. After that I decided against making my own overflow and am glad I went with Modular Marine. Once you factor in a new blade and the cost of materials I couldn't have made it any cheaper and It wouldn't have been as nice.
> 
> The acrylic is bonded together with hobby grade cyanoacrylate glue. I didn't want to buy a whole bottle of weld just for a couple seams. The stuff basically feels welded and the acrylic will break before the glue does.
> 
> For the acrylic to glass areas I used GE SCS1200 silicone and it holds to acrylic very well.


Checking out the prices of MM and comparing to what is similar in size to my overflow, I built one similar in size to their 3600g one and that is about $320, which I spent like $50-75 on acrylic, and about $10 on the acrylic glue, and then about $50 on the highest tooth blade I could get for my friends table saw. Still saved a ton and had a good learning experience!


----------



## Hendy8888

chayos00 said:


> Checking out the prices of MM and comparing to what is similar in size to my overflow, I built one similar in size to their 3600g one and that is about $320, which I spent like $50-75 on acrylic, and about $10 on the acrylic glue, and then about $50 on the highest tooth blade I could get for my friends table saw. Still saved a ton and had a good learning experience!


I agree with you 100%, I love to learn along the way with DIY and with a decent blade I think it would have turned out nice. If I had more experience with acrylic maybe but I have never worked with it before. One thing that Modular marine does is use clear acrylic for the bottom of the main box and this has helped catch shrimp that go into the overflow. Prices for acrylic and generally everything is usually higher in Canada so that was a factor too. In the end it was worth the price to me at the time but I still didn't like the bill. This tank took long enough to put together without a DIY overflow...lol


----------



## Ken Keating1

I purchased the smallest MM overflow; I plan on experimenting with it on a mock-up tank. I thought about building one myself as I work with acrylic, but I wanted to try the MM because of it's low profile. It' s a piece of art, beautifully made, no way I could of made one that would look near as sleek and as good looking without of lot of trial and error. It cost around $130, so not terribly expensive, but well worth it. Geez, sometimes I pull it out of the box just to admire the craftsmanship!!!


----------



## Janci

I also went the MM overflow, smallest size. It is still to arrive, but I am confident in the quality of it.
I consider myself pretty handy, but after talking to them about the design, I realized I would not be able to make one even close to it.
So that is money well spend IMHO.


----------



## Hendy8888

Janci said:


> I also went the MM overflow, smallest size. It is still to arrive, but I am confident in the quality of it.
> 
> I consider myself pretty handy, but after talking to them about the design, I realized I would not be able to make one even close to it.
> 
> So that is money well spend IMHO.


You won't be disappointed, I looked at the Synergy and Reef Savvy but needed a custom hole placement. MM checked most of the boxes I wanted, I got them to do a custom size and custom holes all-around to fit my tank perfect. Having a removable weir is required for a planted tank and I wasn't sure about their design but I really like being able to remove the entire inner box to clean it. They use 3 different acrylics (the back wall is thicker/clear top and bottom) and a polycarbonate for the lids so I wouldn't spend that extra $ on a DIY. Customer service was excellent as well, just an all around good experience. 

I mounted my own bulkheads upside down for a clean look, OCD in the planning stage but it worked out and no leaks. It's setup as a Herbie but can drill 1 extra hole to convert it to a Bean Animal. Holes are also lined up to be a straight run to the sump, lots of measuring and planning.


----------



## Hendy8888

PurdueGK said:


> Really nice tank!! I am getting closer to setting up my tank. Probably some time in December or January. I am going with a Monte Carlo carpet as well and was having a tough time with selecting my midground and background plants. I was worried that if I went with too much red it would look unnatural. But with a solid green carpet like you have, mostly red midground and background plants looks wonderful!


Sorry I missed your post till today! I feel it's red heavy but I lean towards liking those plants. Without the front carpet the entire look of the tank is different. It feels alot more SBReef led vivid (which I can't say I personally like). Probably from seeing purple on a brown substrate. Here is an pic for reference, the outgrown P. Erectus helps offset all the red. 

Almost two weeks away from the tank so needs some love, thought I would let the P. Erectus grow out. Last trimmed Aug 16th ish (maybe?) and that photo is Sept. 30. I'm sure it grew out a bit more this past week but is very obedient except for its big root system. Remember it's only an 18 inch tall tank and 6 weeks of growth.


----------



## gjcarew

I know Monte Carlo can be a PITA, but I miss that green up front. It really contrasted well with all the reds! Are you thinking about another carpet at all?

What about elatine hydropiper for something that might be a little easier to manage than Monte Carlo?

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


----------



## Hendy8888

gjcarew said:


> I know Monte Carlo can be a PITA, but I miss that green up front. It really contrasted well with all the reds! Are you thinking about another carpet at all?
> 
> What about elatine hydropiper for something that might be a little easier to manage than Monte Carlo?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


I really liked the Monte Carlo, easy plant and not too bad to control if you trim very aggressive. It takes quite a while to rebound from a scalp and I used that to my advantage. I think in a year I can only remember trimming it maybe 4 or 5 times. I will be ripping out the center part and replacing it all with UG if I ever get around to it. The tank is a bit warm for Elatine Hydropiper but maybe one day.


----------



## Hendy8888

A little rainy day trim job after almost 3 weeks neglect. TDS was creeping up and a bit of algae but that's to be expected. Fish are still skiddish unfortunately, most plants are fighting off the GSA (which is nice) but rocks tell a different story. L. Glandulosa has been shedding lower leaves so hopefully after the trim it stops. Thinking about running all 8 tubes for only 4 hours or giving a midday burst for an hour. Having a 4 hour light cycle will give some incentive to make a LED light bar that I've been meaning to. 
Overgrown

Half done

End result


----------



## Hendy8888

When your away from home working and there just happens to be a tissue culture company five minutes down the road...

Some of the freshest, highest quality tissue cultures I've seen. Thanks ABC Plants! (Aquatic Botany Canada)


----------



## Hendy8888

Growth seems to have sped up considerably for P. Erectus and Mermaid weed. Nitrates were creeping up after an excessive feeding (I think that was the cause). Instead of changing the dosing I just did a midweek water change. I scrapped the Calcium nitrate and made new macros that now include KN03, KH2PO4, MgSO4, and K2S04. I had extreme pinholes in H. Pinnatifida and H. Corymbosa compact, this mix seems to be helping that out a bit. For micros I am now using Burr's latest recipe but dosed daily. 

I also added a 30minute burst of all 8 bulbs at mid day to experiment.

Pantanal is long gone (died off) and just removed the Heteranthera Zosterfolia, added in Tonina Fluviatilis, UG, and Eriocaulon King Crimson.

Removed all the Glandulosa from the left front, I always cram too many in and it drops leaves from being shaded. It grows better near the centre and will keep those.
Not final by any means, left the Monte Carlo up the centre rear for now not to make too much of a mess. I want to move stuff around a bit until I find another centerpiece plant like Ludwigia white or Nesaea pedicellata. Added a bit of fresh Tropica aquarium soil for all three new plants.

Thanks @Greggz L. Rugosa


----------



## gjcarew

I made a new batch of macros recently and was having trouble getting the K2SO4, MgSO4 and CaSO4 to dissolve in the solution. I could always make a more dilute solution I guess but I was trying to make everything fit in a 500 mL pump bottle that dispenses 10 mL at a time. Do you ever run in to problems like that?

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


----------



## Hendy8888

gjcarew said:


> I made a new batch of macros recently and was having trouble getting the K2SO4, MgSO4 and CaSO4 to dissolve in the solution. I could always make a more dilute solution I guess but I was trying to make everything fit in a 500 mL pump bottle that dispenses 10 mL at a time. Do you ever run in to problems like that?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


I dose CaSO4 in the dihydrate form in my RO water, no problem dissolving at that dilution. I tried CaNO3 in a 800ml bottle with KNO3 and didn't totally dissolve at room temperature, which turned me off from using it. CaSO4.2H2O should only dissolve up to about 1g in 500ml at 20 C.


----------



## chayos00

Mixing some macros don't work so well, as one may already be the maximum salts to solve into water. Just have to go with a more dilute mix and dose say 50ml vs 10ml for the mix to work. I also boil (180-210°F works) my RO water before mixing to help getting it all into dilution. 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Greggz

Hendy8888 said:


> Thanks @Greggz L. Rugosa



Hey good to see the Rugosa doing well. 

Never mentioned this before, but @Hendy8888 and I were able to meet in person a while back. Sent a few plants with him across the border. 

What a pleasure to spend some time talking planted tanks with someone who shares the same interests. Let's face it, outside of this board and a few other places, not many folks understand or care much about this crazy hobby. So it was a unique opportunity to talk shop and share our theories.

And I hope folks who see this tank realize the commitment it takes. Just keeping that Rugosa trimmed is a tall task, let alone all of the other plants and the meticulous placement. 

Very, very well done and the tank is looking fantastic. One of my favorites for sure!


----------



## Hendy8888

Thanks @Greggz, it was a pleasure meeting you and on such short notice too. I really enjoyed talking shop to a fellow hobbyist for a little bit. I dare not tell you the last time I trimmed that Rugosa...but as you know to well there is lots of time with hands in the tank.


----------



## Janci

Nice plants. That King Crimson looks interesting.
Your H. Pinnatifida is growing fast.


----------



## Isis24

Read your entire journal today. Wow. What a beautiful tank. I just ordered a 72 gallon waterbox and hope to have a tank half as nice as yours!


----------



## Hendy8888

Janci said:


> Nice plants. That King Crimson looks interesting.
> Your H. Pinnatifida is growing fast.


Thanks, first Erio for me. I like the emersed colour it is now but probably will turn more red I would think if it does well. The Pinnatifida almost left the tank because its unruly, the area it's in now (centre left) I like it and it grows more like a stem plant should. Up front on the right side it keeps coming back attached to a rock, different creeping growth that needs managed.



Isis24 said:


> Read your entire journal today. Wow. What a beautiful tank. I just ordered a 72 gallon waterbox and hope to have a tank half as nice as yours!


Thanks so much, that Waterbox is a very good start. Hopefully you can make a journal of the progress.


----------



## Quagulator

What NO3 levels are you sitting at?

Just thinking out loud about UG not liking NO3 in the water, something about it not being able to properly regulate it / sensitive to NO3 levels. 

It's a carnivorous plant that gets it N from bacteria . fungi consumption.... 

I love it, but have never been successful with it.


----------



## Hendy8888

Quagulator said:


> What NO3 levels are you sitting at?
> 
> 
> 
> Just thinking out loud about UG not liking NO3 in the water, something about it not being able to properly regulate it / sensitive to NO3 levels.
> 
> 
> 
> It's a carnivorous plant that gets it N from bacteria . fungi consumption....
> 
> 
> 
> I love it, but have never been successful with it.


NO3 sits at orange with an expired API...lol doesn't tell you much does it. Best I can tell 10ppm -20ppm, lately it went to dark orange 40ppm? and I could tell due to the increased speed of growth, it's back down now just before the UG went in. I dose 11ppm / week and use NO3 as the gas pedal in this tank. UG has its melt on right now, little concerning since it clogs the overflow and the tank is set to be by itself for 9 days..it will probably end up getting buried and hope for the best, don't want to chance a clog.


----------



## Hendy8888

Was away on vacation for 9 days so thought I would do a before and after FTS to show growth. The tank faired very well for having lots of shedding leaves and running out of top off water. I'm just glad I didn't come home to a clogged overflow. The 5 gallon top off only lasts a week in the winter and sort of got lucky the return pump was still running even though was sucking in air. I will plumb in another 5 gal bucket before leaving the top off that long again. It was the lesser of two evils since I didn't want to rely on a simple float valve and keep the RO going.

Since it's on a controller with an auto doser the tank runs the same way regardless if I'm away or home. 

The UG is mostly gone, I caught the Amano's out in full force every night after lights out just ripping it up and eating it. I assumed it was melting but they were making a midnight snack out of it. I'll give them them benefit of the doubt they were after the melting parts. A couple spots are still there, so at least it's not a total loss, plants will grow. 
Before 

After 9 days of growth

Plants are loving the noon burst, still only 30 min, probably will leave it for the time being. Getting the itch to try some red bulbs though, maybe just test out a new combo or two.

King Crimson still doing it's thing, it's very buoyant so happy to find only 1 little floater.


Unfortunately, can't trim for a couple days and it won't get much attention for the rest of the month but I can't complain so far.


----------



## Hendy8888

Been awhile since an update, did what felt like two extensive trimming sessions a couple weeks apart. Looking at the pictures I feel like not much changed though. Moved a couple things around and started to fill in the foreground with whatever I had. Down to one patch of growing UG but still pretty buoyant and the shrimp don't get fed well sometimes. I'm getting fairly protective of that little patch now..

The S. Repens has been determined to shed every leaf over the course of six months it seems so I finally ripped every patch out and re planted. While I was at it I did the same to a couple others to thin them out. Most of those roots hadn't been touched for a while so I had a little aqua soil mess on my hands. One thing about having a sump is the soil cleanup is a breeze. Can uproot with the filter going and it clears it up as I go. After just crank the pump output and turkey baste the tank a bit. Maybe 10 min later I took these pics with the pump still on high. Just change out the filter socks and your good to go.

Next up is polishing off the stand interior. Having a hard time finding sheet metal plugs in small quantities though.


----------



## Greggz

Might be my favorite version yet.

Lots of different eye candy to keep your interest everywhere in the tank, and love the side view shot.

Very, very well done!


----------



## Hendy8888

Thanks Greggz! I am drawn to the L. Aromatica Mini on the right. I moved it to where I can see it better and it's got a nice contrasting colour. Growing well there too, makes me want to try Nesaea golden on the other side. Or maybe even Ludwigia white, something very different from the rest. 

The best part is only one light wire....hope I'm not the only one that feels better now. lol


----------



## Ventchur

Those black lava stones, did you get them from Grand River Natural Stone? 

Man that tiny patch of UG dead center in the open is hilarious. Awesome as usual mate!


----------



## Grobbins48

What an awesome progression of this tank since the beginning. You have really upped the plant species count!

Looks fantastic!


----------



## Hendy8888

Ventchur said:


> Those black lava stones, did you get them from Grand River Natural Stone?
> 
> Man that tiny patch of UG dead center in the open is hilarious. Awesome as usual mate!


Yes in London, It was one large lava boulder that I broke into pieces. Turned out to be more difficult than I anticipated, the centre of the boulder is rather dense compared to what I traditionally thought of lava rock. 



Grobbins48 said:


> What an awesome progression of this tank since the beginning. You have really upped the plant species count!
> 
> Looks fantastic!


Thanks, yes it was only a matter of time. I did try at the start to do large groups but there’s just too many species to like. Getting rid of ones that don’t make the cut is a constant struggle. 

I had to look at some older pics and it has transformed quite a bit, I just don’t notice it day to day. That’s one of the best things about planted tanks, they’re always changing.


----------



## Hendy8888

Just a couple photos tonight.


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## Hendy8888

A couple not so great pictures. Trouble plants at the moment.
S. Repens (assuming a mobile nutrient issue)

Rotala Wallichii?
Really as never taken off, showed signs of happiness only a couple times very breifly. Lava rocks are seasoned with algae.


This week I changed up the trimming style, everything got the tops taken off and the stumps left to regrow. First time doing this to a couple of species so will see how they react. I like this look especially once the colours start to come back. Only the P. Erectus got the tops replanted.


----------



## Hendy8888

Finally got some time to clean the tank a bit today. I have been meaning to take some more algae photos and the plants are still recovering from the big trim so why not.
Standard BBA, Littorella uniflora handles H2O2 very well not concerned. Hopefully it fills in, the Lilaeopsis brasiliensis over ran it in the previous spot.

Now the interesting one, if anyone can ID it please do. Seems more resistant to H2O2 then BBA but does kill it. Was very isolated and just started to spread. Makes for some unique rocks. Hasn't attached to any plants yet. Has to be a favorite of mine so far, some kind of red algae.




Hygrophila Compact was shaded and green under the Macrandra, once it got trimmed the increase in light stressed it out. (don't mind the pin holes)

Last but not least @Grobbins48, I too have been geeking out over bulb combos lately. Once the tank is more presentable I plan to add to the t5 bulb combo thread.


----------



## Hendy8888

What am I supposed to do if anything to these seed stalks? First eriocaulon for me.


----------



## Greggz

Don't know about the Erio's.........but that tank picture is fantastic!


----------



## Hendy8888

Greggz said:


> Don't know about the Erio's.........but that tank picture is fantastic!


It's been over a year but I finally tested out the overflow height design. Have always loved photo's of rimless tanks when the water is at the brim. Normally those tanks don't use overflows, in that picture the return pump is still running on a low setting. I didn't think I got the tank perfectly level when it was set up but turned out better than I thought. Nerve racking snapping quick photos while trying to spot an overflow. lol It was a success so I'm sure to do it again.


----------



## burr740

Holy crap thats a lot of flower stalks, lol. Personally I like them, well maybe not THAT many.  In general they are considered undesirable. Apparently the plant uses a ton of energy to make them and the plant growth itself usually stops or slows way down. They usually start when a plant is mature or stress can also trigger flower stalks. Ive heard of some erios eventually dying after flowering but Ive never seen it with Polaris and couple other pin cushion types. My quins have yet to produce any. 

To remove them, hold the plant down and gently pull them straight up. It will pull out of a little sleeve down there and come right off. Dont try to cut them.

That's so many now I'd probably just leave them. Either way it doesnt really matter.

Tank looks amazing btw!


----------



## Hendy8888

burr740 said:


> Holy crap thats a lot of flower stalks, lol. Personally I like them, well maybe not THAT many.  In general they are considered undesirable. Apparently the plant uses a ton of energy to make them and the plant growth itself usually stops or slows way down. They usually start when a plant is mature or stress can also trigger flower stalks. Ive heard of some erios eventually dying after flowering but Ive never seen it with Polaris and couple other pin cushion types. My quins have yet to produce any.
> 
> To remove them, hold the plant down and gently pull them straight up. It will pull out of a little sleeve down there and come right off. Dont try to cut them.
> 
> That's so many now I'd probably just leave them. Either way it doesnt really matter.
> 
> Tank looks amazing btw!


Thanks for the info, I like them too but probably would have cut them vs pulling so this is good to know. Will they eventually fall out or rot away at some point? I did read about the energy it takes but they are so unique I had to let them grow.


----------



## burr740

Not sure what happens after 2-3 months, thats about as long as Ive ever had them on the same plant.


----------



## Hendy8888

Quick update time, lots of plants have been showing poor growth, older leaves are taking the worst of it. Finally dosed a one time 5ppm K to see if that helps. At the same time I'm increasing the co2 back to where it was a year ago. I reduced it quite a while ago when the tetras started to hide. Got the old drop checker out and was a pretty obvious co2 has been low for a bit.

Potassium carbonate is hygroscopic and picked up a fair bit of moisture this summer. It seems better now in the winter but tested the best I could and might be 20% less than what I think I'm dosing.

Green neons are not as skittish recently which I'm super happy about, gaining their trust with more frequent feedings.

New bulb combo went in, trying out some red bulbs. I'm sure PAR went down but I can't test that. 

Cleaned the bio media for the second time in 1 year and 3 months, really wasn't dirty at all for how long it's been.

Of course a couple pics. H'ra' is my favorite orange colour right now.


----------



## thefisherman

You’re flexing your Tom Barr muscles yo! [emoji23] Nice tank![emoji6]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Hendy8888

thefisherman said:


> You’re flexing your Tom Barr muscles yo! [emoji23] Nice tank![emoji6]
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Lol...back in 2015 when I started designing the system he was a great influence with his journals. I doubt I will ever learn to grow plants anywhere close to what he does. His 120 is one of my favourite tanks, just wish he showed it more these days.


----------



## Hendy8888

Did a water change today so here are a couple photos.
FTS
New afternoon bulbs are 6400k/660/Fiji purple/aquaflora, 2 outside bulbs on front and back mainly to give rear stems some direct light. Note the purple cast on the wall is just from that one reflector pointing at the wall. 

The Pinnatifida is such a dark colour right now I had to take a pic. Almost think it's not a good thing since it's been struggling (normally it's a weed).


Myaca is quite the unique growing plant.. Doesn't belong in this tank but keep it around to see what it does. I don't let it grow much but it's growth pattern seems completely random. Sends off shoots in random directions at random times.


----------



## Quagulator

@Hendy8888

I'm really interested in:

Where you sourced this tank / make of this tank (I know you mentioned this early on in the journal)
How long it took to get
The Process of importing it
The costs involved

PM me if you don't want to discuss too much detail on your journal 

Thanks


----------



## Chlorophile

WOW - just got done with the first page, the cabinet build was fantastic. 
I laminated my stand for the 60H but now seriously considering the alkyd enamel for my next stand. 
How much did that tank cost you? 
Those are my ideal dimensions...

Edit: I found putting a 3000k or 6500k in the back spot makes the wall color look better and helps the white balance on my camera... 
from your bulb combo thread #2 and #7 looked amazing to me. 

Do you have UV or Actinic in your sump? Some of your algaes look like they belong in a saltwater aquarium!
Beautiful work all around though!


----------



## Hendy8888

Quagulator said:


> @Hendy8888
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really interested in:
> 
> 
> 
> Where you sourced this tank / make of this tank (I know you mentioned this early on in the journal)
> 
> How long it took to get
> 
> The Process of importing it
> 
> The costs involved
> 
> 
> 
> PM me if you don't want to discuss too much detail on your journal
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks


I don't mind at all, the tank was ordered through Krakens Aquarium (which is now closed). The owner was ordering all his custom tanks for the store and opened up the order to anyone who wanted on GTAAquaria forum. As far as I can tell they came from FireAqua in China but I didn't confirm that. 

His initial order took about 6 weeks from the time it left China to land at his shop. Unfortunately, my tank was in a container that was mistakenly packed with wood materials and got refused at customs in Vancouver. It then went back to China and got repacked and sent again. For my tank it took 6 months or so to get to me..lol Thankfully I didn't have to deal with importing, Krakens Aquarium took care of everything.

I could have gotten a refund but instead took a small discount and waited since I wasn't ready to use it anyways. The price for this tank was a steal so well worth the wait.

Cost was:

Tank - $320 + $10/hole = $350
Sump - $150
Discount ($50)
Total taxes in = $450 CDN

Tank is 1/2" "starfire" glass all around, beveled and polished edges, silicone work is absolutely gorgeous. 

Aqua Inspiration in Toronto used to sell FireAqua tanks I think, their prices were pretty good. Not sure if anyone else in the Toronto area deals with Chinese manufacturers now that their closed but you can't beat the value. I don't even want to think about what Miracles Aquarium would have quoted me for the same tank.


----------



## Quagulator

Hendy8888 said:


> Cost was:
> 
> Tank - $320 + $10/hole = $350
> Sump - $150
> Discount ($50)
> Total taxes in = $450 CDN
> 
> Tank is 1/2" "starfire" glass all around, beveled and polished edges, silicone work is absolutely gorgeous.
> 
> Aqua Inspiration in Toronto used to sell FireAqua tanks I think, their prices were pretty good. Not sure if anyone else in the Toronto area deals with Chinese manufacturers now that their closed but you can't beat the value. I don't even want to think about what Miracles Aquarium would have quoted me for the same tank.



Sounds like you were treated very fair, that's always a plus. A shame they are no longer in business. 


I'm searching for options on my next tank, I want to get away from the black rimmed standard tanks, FireAqua... I'll have to search around for suppliers, that value is absolutely insane... 

Matter of fact Miracles quoted me on a similarly sized 4 foot tank.... well north of 4x what you paid for your tank before taxes and shipping... In case you were wondering


----------



## Grobbins48

Wow- That is a fantastic price on such a nice setup! Way to go!


----------



## Hendy8888

Chlorophile said:


> WOW - just got done with the first page, the cabinet build was fantastic.
> I laminated my stand for the 60H but now seriously considering the alkyd enamel for my next stand.
> How much did that tank cost you?
> Those are my ideal dimensions...
> 
> Edit: I found putting a 3000k or 6500k in the back spot makes the wall color look better and helps the white balance on my camera...
> from your bulb combo thread #2 and #7 looked amazing to me.
> 
> Do you have UV or Actinic in your sump? Some of your algaes look like they belong in a saltwater aquarium!
> Beautiful work all around though!


Thanks for reading, it's been a great build and I enjoy looking back at photos reminiscing about the journey.

The paint has held up fantastic, really happy with it. Water just beads off since it's an oil, kids sometimes bump toys into it and no signs of ware after more than a year. I really debated pros and cons of paint vs laminate.

Cost - See post above
Dimensions - absolutely love 48x24x18

Wall is purple by choice, I like it the best. Not everyone does but i find it just gives an extra something in person, even the sheen on top of the water. Bulb combos are never set in stone, I like those 2 as well but also enjoy changing it up one and a while.

No UV or actinic (even though a 420nm bulb is on my shopping list for the tank light). I thought the same thing that it looks like a type of red macro algae that I have only seen in saltwater. lol


----------



## Hendy8888

Quagulator said:


> Sounds like you were treated very fair, that's always a plus. A shame they are no longer in business.
> 
> 
> I'm searching for options on my next tank, I want to get away from the black rimmed standard tanks, FireAqua... I'll have to search around for suppliers, that value is absolutely insane...
> 
> Matter of fact Miracles quoted me on a similarly sized 4 foot tank.... well north of 4x what you paid for your tank before taxes and shipping... In case you were wondering


Ya I have read some journals with exceptional tanks from Miracles and I have read some real horror stories too. I have seen too many poor silicone jobs as well, they all have one thing in common though...that price. It is nice they are relatively local though lol.

If I come across any options I'll let you know, haven't been to any Toronto aquarium stores in a while. Someone must of filled Aqua Inspirations void though, I hope.


----------



## Quagulator

Hendy8888 said:


> Ya I have read some journals with exceptional tanks from Miracles and I have read some real horror stories too. I have seen too many poor silicone jobs as well, they all have one thing in common though...that price. It is nice they are relatively local though lol.
> 
> If I come across any options I'll let you know, haven't been to any Toronto aquarium stores in a while. Someone must of filled Aqua Inspirations void though, I hope.


M & J was a quick kijiji find, seems reasonable, built in house tanks (I think) with StarFire.... Regular hours of operation and an up to date FaceBook account so... Maybe I'll reach out. 

I'm thinking 48" L x 24" D x 20" T ... they've got standard pre-build sizes but not with those measurements, closest is an 80 gal 48x20x20, I would want a little more depth and height. 

Let me know if you find anything else, I'm thinking 6 month time frame here, maybe a little longer.


----------



## Hendy8888

Not a big update just wanted to enter a post to log some changes I made a couple weeks ago that seem to be positive. Macros went to 2/3's of normal when everything got trimmed, monitoring TDS it stayed pretty stable all week. I planned to put it back to a full dose once the plant mass came back but recently decided against it. Gh is back to 5 and co2 is 1.4 drop. Still adding a 1 time 3ppm dose of K after water change and feeding more heavily. Will let the plants grow another week and do a big trim then.


----------



## Grobbins48

Hendy8888 said:


>


Great pictures! Love seeing that side shot!


----------



## Hendy8888

Did some plant movings and a big trim. Still want to remove the floating carpet of monte Carlo in the back middle and generally figure out what I want to do in the centre. Have some ideas but need more plants...lol I should get rid of some too.

Quinquangulare got all its stalks removed...and it does seem like it stalled growth/melts some leaves from spending the energy. Definitely multiplies quick though, trying the osmocote plus trick to jump start it again. 

A.R. mini / wallichii / s. repens/ glandulosa are all perking up slowly with the changes made. R. bonsai / H. Araguaia still is very meh...maybe slightly better but not good at all.

Definitely a work in progress FTS kind of week, still want to reshape a couple sections too.


----------



## Quagulator

Hendy8888 said:


> Still want to remove the floating carpet of monte Carlo in the back middle and generally figure out what I want to do in the centre. Have some ideas but need more plants...lol I should get rid of some too.


Looking really good! I'm in awe with that pinnatifida!

Have you considers some dwarf crypts in that center section instead of the monto Carlo? You'd need an army of pots or TC cups to make a nice group, but it would be fairly unique. 

Keep the updates coming!

Oh, I forgot to ask, I was looking back at your stand build, what kind of paint did you exactly use?
Thanks


----------



## Hendy8888

Quagulator said:


> Looking really good! I'm in awe with that pinnatifida!
> 
> 
> 
> Have you considers some dwarf crypts in that center section instead of the monto Carlo? You'd need an army of pots or TC cups to make a nice group, but it would be fairly unique.
> 
> 
> 
> Keep the updates coming!
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, I forgot to ask, I was looking back at your stand build, what kind of paint did you exactly use?
> 
> Thanks


Pinnatifida is an interesting grower, technically a stem plant and the tallest parts you see are very much just tall stems. It also will send off above substrate runners that attach to rocks and grow very compact and low at each node. 

Yes! I was going to try crypt parva but sadly I'm still waiting for my package to arrive maybe 8 months later.  I still want to try UG somewhere again was thinking back there maybe..

Paint was Cover stain as a primer mainly due to blocking and sanding properties and Benjamin Moore Super Spec Urethane Alkyd Gloss Enamel (P22) for a top coat. I think the Canadian version is KP22, it is a newer formula to pass VOC regs. They sell it as a direct to metal paint which allows them to use higher VOC limits. The old formula once said it could be used on wood but now they label just for metal. Look into machine restoration and boat painting forums. Super Spec is a fraction of the price of boat paints and can be tinted too.


----------



## mboley

Hendy8888 said:


> A couple not so great pictures. Trouble plants at the moment.
> S. Repens (assuming a mobile nutrient issue)
> 
> Rotala Wallichii?
> Really as never taken off, showed signs of happiness only a couple times very breifly. Lava rocks are seasoned with algae.


Thanks for making me feel better about my little bit of algae. It's nice to know others battle minor algae as I do. From your tank pics and super healthy growth I saw your tank as perfect. Now I just need to figure out to grow plants like you do.


----------



## Hendy8888

mboley said:


> Thanks for making me feel better about my little bit of algae. It's nice to know others battle minor algae as I do. From your tank pics and super healthy growth I saw your tank as perfect. Now I just need to figure out to grow plants like you do.


I would imagine almost every established tank has algae, nothing to worry about as long as it's not out of control. Those rocks are black looking because of all the algae on them. Most new tanks get diatom and thread algae, once established these die off and are replaced by GSA and BBA and similar types. It's amazing to see that happy plants barely get any algae and weak plants will breed it.

I challenge you to magnify some of your favorite pro scrapers (established) tanks and you will be amazed the algae you can see. Perfectly normal in my opinion.


----------



## Greggz

Hendy8888 said:


> It's amazing to see that happy plants barely get any algae and weak plants will breed it.
> 
> I challenge you to magnify some of your favorite pro scrapers (established) tanks and you will be amazed the algae you can see. Perfectly normal in my opinion.


Agreed.

I don't know of any tank that is 100% algae free. And that includes Dennis Wong, Tom Barr, etc.

The big difference is how much is there and more importantly how it's managed. Most all of the best scapes you see require a good deal of hands on trimming/pruning. Not only removing algae infested leaves, but also managing mass, controlling shading, thinning bushes creating better flow.....and in general keeping uber clean conditions. Takes dedication and good old fashioned elbow grease.

And to that end, I must say your tank is always very well manicured. Folks see the final results and most think little of what it takes to get there. I see your tank and see the exceptional effort that goes into trimming/pruning. That is, it doesn't happen by accident, and reflects the effort you put into your presentation.

And by the way, I have said this before, but this really is one of my favorite tanks. Very, very well done as always.


----------



## Blue Ridge Reef

This tank just keeps looking better. Stunning layout, ridiculously healthy plants, and well thought-out equipment build. I think less of my own tanks from seeing this one.


----------



## Hujeta

I'm a new member to this forum, and fairly new to aquascaping in general. Just to let you know I've read the whole thread and really admire the craftmanship behind this build (especially the stand you built), very inspiring to see. The below pictures are what I find the very best scape so far. The only slight remark I've had (it's a minor one, but since you at one stage asked for ideas) is that the two green lines of spruce-like plants on each island (unsure of name) is a tad too symmetrical, whispering ever so lightly of artifical placement . When they've grown some more height like below, they blend better and seems more natural. Again, this is me nitpicking on the one thing I don't find to be 100% perfect.



Hendy8888 said:


> Not a big update just wanted to enter a post to log some changes I made a couple weeks ago that seem to be positive. Macros went to 2/3's of normal when everything got trimmed, monitoring TDS it stayed pretty stable all week. I planned to put it back to a full dose once the plant mass came back but recently decided against it. Gh is back to 5 and co2 is 1.4 drop. Still adding a 1 time 3ppm dose of K after water change and feeding more heavily. Will let the plants grow another week and do a big trim then.


----------



## Hendy8888

Greggz said:


> Agreed.
> 
> I don't know of any tank that is 100% algae free. And that includes Dennis Wong, Tom Barr, etc.
> 
> The big difference is how much is there and more importantly how it's managed. Most all of the best scapes you see require a good deal of hands on trimming/pruning. Not only removing algae infested leaves, but also managing mass, controlling shading, thinning bushes creating better flow.....and in general keeping uber clean conditions. Takes dedication and good old fashioned elbow grease.
> 
> And to that end, I must say your tank is always very well manicured. Folks see the final results and most think little of what it takes to get there. I see your tank and see the exceptional effort that goes into trimming/pruning. That is, it doesn't happen by accident, and reflects the effort you put into your presentation.
> 
> And by the way, I have said this before, but this really is one of my favorite tanks. Very, very well done as always.


Thanks Greggz! I totally agree with the ongoing maintenance, it's a large part of planted tanks and keeping things clean. I like to try different trimming methods and am lucky things look decent right after taking all the tops off. One thing I haven't really tried yet is to do a show trim where every plant will be at its peak at the same time. Just thinking about it makes me cringe, so many plants growing at different rates and trimmed differently. Gives me an appreciation for Dutch layouts though.



Blue Ridge Reef said:


> This tank just keeps looking better. Stunning layout, ridiculously healthy plants, and well thought-out equipment build. I think less of my own tanks from seeing this one.


Thanks Blue Ridge Reef! I appreciate that, I really had a wishlist of requirements for this tank and it turned out wonderfully. I didn't limit my spending on some things (like the stand) but also am using a lot of used equipment that would be expensive if bought new. I knew what I wanted and certainly didn't rush anything. 




Hujeta said:


> I'm a new member to this forum, and fairly new to aquascaping in general. Just to let you know I've read the whole thread and really admire the craftmanship behind this build (especially the stand you built), very inspiring to see. The below pictures are what I find the very best scape so far. The only slight remark I've had (it's a minor one, but since you at one stage asked for ideas) is that the two green lines of spruce-like plants on each island (unsure of name) is a tad too symmetrical, whispering ever so lightly of artifical placement . When they've grown some more height like below, they blend better and seems more natural. Again, this is me nitpicking on the one thing I don't find to be 100% perfect.


Thanks Hujeta and welcome to the forum! I really enjoyed the build part of this tank even though it took a while.

Thank you for the feedback, lately I have been missing the older layout with the monte Carlo carpet but seems a lot of people like the newer version. Either way I am in the middle of a collectoritis bout so I'm sure to continue with the new layout adding even more species. Looking natural is one thing I have never tried with this tank, most groupings are kept together in lines or triangles. The symmetry is a happy accident that I tend to like honestly. Those P. erectus are put in a line and then grow into what you see in the picture you posted. I like seeing those wide mature tops, one of my favorite plants.


----------



## Crazyjayb

Just found this journal as I'm looking for inspiration for my own 90g and I've gotta say I'm loving it. Just read through the greater part of it


----------



## Hendy8888

Long time no update, everything is doing better, S. Repens is still not as good as it could be, lots of old leaves being found in the overflow too. Added some fresh Tropica soil to the L. Aromatica mini area and will add more to build up the center of the hills a bit. Trying out some osmocote + around some of the more demanding plants like Glandulosa/Quinquangulare. Rotala's are loving life and even the wallichii has come around which is a first.

Speaking of the Quinquangulare, it refuses to stop sending up seeds, really stalls out growth too, just noticed some nicer new leaves on a couple plants starting to grow. The old leaves just sit and look slightly tattered but don't really decompose. Big difference between old and new growth though.

Got a hold of a 3000k bulb and what a difference from the 2700k I have been trying to make work. Late day combo is the Burr740 setup 3000k/(ATI blue plus)/660/aquaflora and YES! Finally see what he's talking about. I run the 4 outside bulbs so doesn't mix as good as it could but it works with the plant placements right now.

FTS All 8 bulbs


----------



## Grobbins48

Hendy8888 said:


> Got a hold of a 3000k bulb and what a difference from the 2700k I have been trying to make work. Late day combo is the Burr740 setup 3000k/(ATI blue plus)/660/aquaflora and YES! Finally see what he's talking about. I run the 4 outside bulbs so doesn't mix as good as it could but it works with the plant placements right now.
> 
> FTS All 8 bulbs


Okay... I need to order a real blue bulb now... time to go on BRS... 

Looks fantastic!


----------



## Hendy8888

Grobbins48 said:


> Okay... I need to order a real blue bulb now... time to go on BRS...
> 
> Looks fantastic!


I really wasn't sold on the combo until I got the 3000k, much nicer. I used 10000k/aquablue special/630/aquaflora which I really like too. In hindsight I can say they look similar, hard to compare since I run 4 blanks in the middle of the 1 combo though.

That picture is:
3000k/blue plus/10000k/aquablue special/630/aquaflora/aquaflora/660


----------



## vvDO

Hendy8888 said:


> I really wasn't sold on the combo until I got the 3000k, much nicer. I used 10000k/aquablue special/630/aquaflora which I really like too. In hindsight I can say they look similar, hard to compare since I run 4 blanks in the middle of the 1 combo though.
> 
> That picture is:
> 3000k/blue plus/10000k/aquablue special/630/aquaflora/aquaflora/660



Loving the tank as always...

Just being curious...seems like you placed all your blue bulbs up front except 3K and your red/flora bulbs in the rear. Any specific reason?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## burr740

I'd pull those Quins out and start them over. Split any that can be split and peel off 2-3 layers of the older outside leaves down to the really nice growth. You'll wind up with smaller, but much nicer young plants, and probably more than you started with. But the main thing is it should help it grow better

Tank looks AMAZING!


----------



## Hendy8888

vvDO said:


> Loving the tank as always...
> 
> Just being curious...seems like you placed all your blue bulbs up front except 3K and your red/flora bulbs in the rear. Any specific reason?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Red plants are in the back. That and I run it like this for half the day.

Really I just run 4 bulbs at a time and both sets have the reds at the back. All 8 are on for just 45 min.


----------



## Hendy8888

burr740 said:


> I'd pull those Quins out and start them over. Split any that can be split and peel off 2-3 layers of the older outside leaves down to the really nice growth. You'll wind up with smaller, but much nicer young plants, and probably more than you started with. But the main thing is it should help it grow better
> 
> Tank looks AMAZING!


That's how I got so many, I didn't peel off the 2-3 layers though. I just took all the stalks off and they wanted to split on their own so that's what I did. Makes sense because it seems like the outer leaves are melting ever so slowly now. I did see a couple had new growth so not too concerned but really I'm just not home enough this month to give them some love. Thanks for all the tips with this one btw!


----------



## Hendy8888

Home for two days and got a chance to work on the tank. Monte Carlo carpet is officially gone! Been putting if off for a while since it's a lot to try and sell at once, it has been semi floating happily in it's spot for months. Can't even remember the last time I trimmed it. Still have a thick mat of it on the tallest rock on the left side...it needs trimmed but might wait for it to float up too and start over.

Quinquangulare got pulled up and stripped of most dead. I realized that there are hardly any with leaves. Instead it was all remnants of the tubers from the stalks. Really only have one producing new leaves, regardless I replanted them, hopefully they rebound. I'm wondering now if cutting the tuber and stalk off together might be ok since the empty tuber just rots away anyways? Can't complain as this is the only plant really struggling.

P. Erectus is as fat as it has ever been, easily the same width as an adult Glandulosa. Really impressive plant if you get a chance to grow it out.


A few more photos, don't mind the reflections. Fish have not been fed for a bit and have retreated into the plants when the room is occupied. It would be nice to have them in the pictures more often.




Also I did a little experiment that I would say failed...at least for now. RGB t5ho....lol the green tube is over powering and makes the greens all pop the same shade. Maybe I might test it out in a different combo but in this tank I am currently trying to get different shades of green.


----------



## Grobbins48

Great update and fantastic pictures. Somehow you manage to take this tank to the next level with each update! 

Made me laugh a bit with the RGB, but curious to see what you learn from it. As always, playing with bulbs is an absolute blast!


----------



## Greggz

I admire your spirit of experimentation, but don't know if the world is ready for RGB T5HO.:wink2:

What is the green bulb?

Don't know that I have ever seen one.

And tank is looking sweet as usual.


----------



## Hendy8888

Grobbins48 said:


> Great update and fantastic pictures. Somehow you manage to take this tank to the next level with each update!
> 
> Made me laugh a bit with the RGB, but curious to see what you learn from it. As always, playing with bulbs is an absolute blast!


Thanks! You are to blame for all my recent bulb changes. My poor old stand offs are starting to loose little pieces because of it. lol I'm enjoying following along your journal too from behind the curtains.



Greggz said:


> I admire your spirit of experimentation, but don't know if the world is ready for RGB T5HO.:wink2:
> 
> What is the green bulb?
> 
> Don't know that I have ever seen one.
> 
> And tank is looking sweet as usual.


Thanks Gregg, yes I don't know either. Maybe in an all green tank but even still probably better ways to make the green pop. Reminds me a bit of the ADA metal halides how they are very green. 

It is a Spectrolux green bulb, no info really except it's used in hydroponics to enter a room and have light yet not interrupt the bloom cycle I think. Not 100% positive on that though.

Here are the few combos I did before I gave up. I do however like the Spectrolux 3000k that came in the same shipment. The big problem is it turns every green the same shade and really kills the reds. I'm sure I could work with it more just didn't want to right then.


----------



## Greggz

Holey Smokes that is a strong effect. 

Those first few pics are really overpowered by the green.

Just another example of how important the color of light is. You should cross post to the bulb thread.


----------



## Hendy8888

Greggz said:


> Holey Smokes that is a strong effect.
> 
> 
> 
> Those first few pics are really overpowered by the green.
> 
> 
> 
> Just another example of how important the color of light is. You should cross post to the bulb thread.


I was surprised too, the green really glows. Will cross post at some point, would like to get a decent combo before I do but I'm bulb swapped out for a bit I think..


----------



## Hujeta

Are you using manual settings on your camera so the photos we see are accurate depictions of the tank? If the auto whitebalance is enabled for example the camera will be fooling us readers. The images are nice and crisp in general so I assume you know what you're doing, it's just for the second image I'm confused if the change in contrast is caused by the camera or the bulbs.


----------



## Hendy8888

Hujeta said:


> Are you using manual settings on your camera so the photos we see are accurate depictions of the tank? If the auto whitebalance is enabled for example the camera will be fooling us readers. The images are nice and crisp in general so I assume you know what you're doing, it's just for the second image I'm confused if the change in contrast is caused by the camera or the bulbs.


Manual settings, most are 4800k wb, 100 ISO, and S varies from 1/60 to 1/125. The bulb reflections are 1/500 S. All are just cell phone pics, nothing fancy. Not sure what 2nd pic you mean, post #267 or post #270?


----------



## Hujeta

Hendy8888 said:


> Manual settings, most are 4800k wb, 100 ISO, and S varies from 1/60 to 1/125. The bulb reflections are 1/500 S. All are just cell phone pics, nothing fancy. Not sure what 2nd pic you mean, post #267 or post #270?


I figured the pictures were too good for you not to be doing it manually. I'm confusing myself when I read back what I wrote, but it's the second FTS below that I meant:



Hendy8888 said:


>


----------



## Hendy8888

Hujeta said:


> I figured the pictures were too good for you not to be doing it manually. I'm confusing myself when I read back what I wrote, but it's the second FTS below that I meant:


100 % bulbs, first is ATI blue plus and second I swapped it out to an ATI aquablue special. Same settings, camera placement looks to be a bit different in regards to light spill though.


----------



## Hendy8888

Long time no maintenance....1 water change in the past 3.5 weeks. Plants are doing well though, most are very over grown leading to flow issues. I was able to trim the left side 2 weeks ago which helped but now the right side is just as bad.

Pleasant surprises are L. Glandulosa and A.R. mini growing comparatively well. I would have to think the osmocote plus is driving the Glandulosa which was exactly what I want. A.R. mini I can't correlate to anything.

Now the bad...over grown and algae on the glass. Just needs a good trim and maintenance session. Will take some after pics once it's complete.


----------



## Hendy8888

Pre trim, GDA and GSA are worse on the front glass than the photos show.


R. H'ra' was impeding the flow the most.

P. Erectus is a tank, slow and steady. Each root ball grew from one stem, I'll use the largest stem from each again.

Wanted to show how the H. Pinnatifida grows as a stem. It doesn't seem many grow it like this, 24" tall.

After a big trim, glass clean, spot dose of hydrogen peroxide and a water change.



Will try to do a mid week spot dose and water change to keep on top of the algae on the rocks a bit. Thought it was interesting nitrate and phosphate levels tested normal, the plant density must of kept pase with the lack of water changes nicely. Still need to change out the filter pads/socks and replace the purigen.


----------



## Ventchur

Tank looks phenomenal as always, even after no maintenance/low waterchanges.. 

Those stems of pinnatifida are ridiculous, my tank is only 18" tall lol.. Kinda surprised they don't send runners out everywhere horizontally.

Before & After trim comparison is awesome to look at below:


----------



## Hendy8888

Ventchur said:


> Tank looks phenomenal as always, even after no maintenance/low waterchanges..
> 
> 
> 
> Those stems of pinnatifida are ridiculous, my tank is only 18" tall lol.. Kinda surprised they don't send runners out everywhere horizontally.


This tank is only 18" tall too! They do send runners, I try to keep them in check though. That plant gets tucked deep between two rocks so heavy shading for the runners.

That before and after is great, was actually thinking of it earlier.


----------



## Ventchur

Hendy8888 said:


> This tank is only 18" tall too!


Didn't even realize, mind blown.......


----------



## Hendy8888

Mise well post some tank pictures like everyone else. No worthy fish pictures though, don't have the right equipment.

This one is from last weeks trim.

This week I focused on beating back some algae. Didn't realize it's been 6 days already, meant to do it after 3 or 4.
I try to spot dose quite a bit of hydrogen peroxide on any areas prone to BBA. I let it sit for 15 ish minutes and then start a water change. Normally it ends up being around 160ml every water change if I have time. The buce got removed and had it's own bath....it's special like that.

You tend to learn what plants don't like hydrogen peroxide. Monte Carlo and mini pellia are a couple in this tank. I have avoided the Crypt Flamingo thus far but it got a good hit today so we will see I guess. 

Mid water change, just something different.

FTS of course

Too bad the S.Repens and L. Arcuata got the tops taken off..


----------



## PurdueGK

Your colors are absolutely stunning! I look at your tank and almost can’t believe the colors that you get out of these plants. Well done sir. Dutch style done well. True inspiration!


----------



## Hendy8888

PurdueGK said:


> Your colors are absolutely stunning! I look at your tank and almost can’t believe the colors that you get out of these plants. Well done sir. Dutch style done well. True inspiration!


Thanks! Most is all due to the lights, change the bulbs and you get a different look. Everyone has their preference and as you see throughout this journal I have changed the bulbs a bit. Of course the plants still have to be growing well enough to display their normal colours.

In no way is this an example of a Dutch tank but I get what you are saying none the less, I appreciate it.


----------



## SingAlongWithTsing

where did you get the needle wheel for the jebao pump and is there one that's compatible with a dcp 8000? kept forgetting to ask you all this time lol


----------



## Hendy8888

SingAlongWithTsing said:


> where did you get the needle wheel for the jebao pump and is there one that's compatible with a dcp 8000? kept forgetting to ask you all this time lol


I use a Coral Box DCA 1500 with skimmer kit from fish-street that's dedicated for the co2. I like the controllability to take the guess work out when picking a pump. I think ATI makes an impeller that might work but I didn't find much for that model when I did a quick search. Looks like some reef people are 3d printing kits and selling on eBay. Here is a link that looks promising but didn't look how old it is or if they still sell them. http://dluphoto.synology.me/impeller/


----------



## Hendy8888

New 4 bulb combo went in for the first half of the photo period. 
10k/aquablue special/fiji purple/630nm


----------



## Quagulator

Where are you sourcing your bulbs @Hendy8888 ?? 

Tank is looking great as per usual roud:


----------



## Grobbins48

Wow that combo really pops! Great balance of red and green, and showing all the shades. Nice!


----------



## Hendy8888

Quagulator said:


> Where are you sourcing your bulbs @Hendy8888 ??
> 
> Tank is looking great as per usual roud:


Collected bulbs over the years, have purchased from bigAls on sale, local hydroponics stores, grow lights Canada for the 630/660 (they have a whole line of knock off power vegs), possibly Premium Aquatics, Better Grow Hydro has some cheap spectrolux bulbs for the US crowd. Can't remember if I have used BRS or not but they are an option and all my blue plus and aquablue specials came with my used fixture. 

Needless to say I am set for a while if they ever stop producing T5HO's. I don't care how old the bulbs are and have never considered PAR, only colour to my eyes. I do understand what bulbs should be high PAR and what should be low though.


Grobbins48 said:


> Wow that combo really pops! Great balance of red and green, and showing all the shades. Nice!


I agree, I think the purple wall makes the tank pop as a whole as well. Also noticed the green neons are very dark blue and the Pinnatifida is a deep burgundy with this combo.


----------



## Greggz

That is a good looking combination.

The color separation is outstanding.

Might be my favorite pic yet!


----------



## Quagulator

Hendy8888 said:


> Needless to say I am set for a while if they ever stop producing T5HO's.


As long as specialty tomatoes stay legal in Canada I think we are set for a while with T5 bulbs, although more and more LED grow lights are popping up in my google ads, never seen any T5 units, so hard to say really. Only time will tell. Standard white bulbs will go the distance... my local rink must have 1000's of 48" T5's up there... all white, but for coloured bulbs it might be a different story. 

I figured yours would come from the several sources I was looking at too :grin2:


----------



## Hendy8888

Tank has been neglected but thought I would share another tillandsia flower.


----------



## Hendy8888

Quinquangulare not so much anymore, replaced it with mexicana goias. Didn't think I would like the goias as much as I do. Easy plant that grows moderately fast, so far it's keeping low so will trim it as such. Still two or three single leaf quin's in there holding on but not the same growth as before. I have wondered about the source since they never looked quite like most pictures I have seen. That and it seems the flowers aren't very common which mine were abundant.

Can you spot the plant that shouldn't be there?

Mid water change, just neat to see how dense it's planted. A few species got trimmed, micros ran out for a couple days and Rugosa is a good indicator plant. I think I remember Burr posting that but helps seeing it first hand.


Took the filter socks out and trying just a micron filter pad on the sock holder. It clogs quicker but can be rinsed easily enough. I always have clear water but why not since I have it. Glass algae is becoming an issue so will have to try to correct that.


----------



## Ventchur

Goddam..


----------



## Hendy8888

@Ventchur Haha, made me chuckle. I was just pondering cranking the co2 and lights to see what happens. Hate to mess with something that works, probably should get the algae calmed down first too.


----------



## andrewss

Wow tank looks great! That gif sums it up! I bet most people that walk in the room are like that haha!


----------



## Hendy8888

andrewss said:


> Wow tank looks great! That gif sums it up! I bet most people that walk in the room are like that haha!


Thanks! More importantly everytime I walk in the room that's my face. Haha


----------



## Ventchur

Hendy8888 said:


> Glass algae is becoming an issue so will have to try to correct that.


I have the same thing, algae on the glass/GDA after 3-4 days post glass cleaning. Let me know if you try anything that works.

Also thinking about pulling and switching the litorella carpet, a magnet for algae in a high tech tank.. Going to look for some pots of elatine hydropiper or glosso.


----------



## Hendy8888

Asking again to see if any algae experts know what species these are? Probably should ask in a specific section.


----------



## Grobbins48

Hendy8888 said:


> Asking again to see if any algae experts know what species these are? Probably should ask in a specific section.


Whatever is it I have had it on rocks before. It actually didn't bother me that much... seemed more natural than super clean rocks IMO, and it stayed there, never moving to plants. 

Still curious to see what others say though.


----------



## vvDO

Hendy8888 said:


> Asking again to see if any algae experts know what species these are? Probably should ask in a specific section.



Interesting stuff going on here...
Are you asking about 1,2 or 3? 











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Hendy8888

vvDO said:


> Interesting stuff going on here...
> Are you asking about 1,2 or 3?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


1 and 2, as @Grobbins48 mentioned they are only on the rocks. I noticed 2 came before 1 and almost think they are related.

I would say they are more resistant to hydrogen peroxide than the bba but 1 can be scrapped off a lot easier.


----------



## gjcarew

I legit thought this was a reef tank with the algae

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


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## Crazygar

For a couple of seconds I was thinking Coraline Algae and Aiptasia. It's hard to tell with the coloration of those bulbs. 

Gary


----------



## Grobbins48

Hendy8888 said:


> 1 and 2, as @Grobbins48 mentioned they are only on the rocks. I noticed 2 came before 1 and almost think they are related.
> 
> I would say they are more resistant to hydrogen peroxide than the bba but 1 can be scrapped off a lot easier.


Agree on the H202 resistance of that stuff... other reason I let it be. 

The one way it did go away was pulling rocks and doing a bleach/water soak- but if they are really an intricate part of the scape it may be more trouble than it's worth.


----------



## Hendy8888

Crazygar said:


> For a couple of seconds I was thinking Coraline Algae and Aiptasia. It's hard to tell with the coloration of those bulbs.
> 
> 
> 
> Gary


There is a freshwater coralline found in Croatia but looks different to me...and not my region. I would think they are both a form of red algae (rhodophyta) just can't really find any info at all. Good call on different lighting, might try that, in the meantime here is a close up of the one in a white cup with just the camera flash.

@Grobbins48 They don't bother me too much on the rocks as they are unique and look neat. The stringy one I remove periodically but can't get it all off the lava rock pores I'm sure.

*Edit*
Here is a pic with an all white LED shop light:


----------



## Crazygar

Oh my! That looks like a Freshwater version of Red Bubble Algae. I am going to do some research, I have never seen that before.

Gary


----------



## Crazygar

"Yes Virginia, Red Freshwater Algae does Exist!" URL: https://www.biologyonline.com/dictionary/red-algae

Gary


----------



## Chizpa305

If you asked me, even the algae looks sexy here. That close up shot makes it look like a saltwater tank with corals in it. Nice Dutch style. I love the colors


----------



## Hendy8888

Was messing around finding lux values (with a cell phone) at different lighting heights and took a FTS. This is an option in the near future, still on the fence. Lights have been lowered a bit already and the 8 bulb burst has started to get extended. The second photo is as it stands with only 4 bulbs hence the different colours. Really would miss the open top view I think.



Will be doing a fairly large trim tomorrow so will be missing the colours for a bit. Probably continue my harassment of the rock algae.


----------



## zivvel

Beautiful.

I really enjoyed reading this journal from beginning to end, and I continue to enjoy the updates. Thanks for posting it here, Hendy.


----------



## Hendy8888

zivvel said:


> Beautiful.
> 
> 
> 
> I really enjoyed reading this journal from beginning to end, and I continue to enjoy the updates. Thanks for posting it here, Hendy.


Glad you are enjoying it! Sometimes I feel like the updates get repetitive but the tank has evolved a bit since the first planting.

I think my favorite thing to do on forums is to follow along the journals soaking up knowledge from other's experiences.


----------



## Greggz

Have you tested PAR with your set up?

Would be curious to know what the PAR at substrate is with all the bulbs going at once.


----------



## Grobbins48

Love the color in that first photo... you continue to astonish me with each update, well done!


----------



## Hendy8888

Greggz said:


> Have you tested PAR with your set up?
> 
> 
> 
> Would be curious to know what the PAR at substrate is with all the bulbs going at once.


I have not, I am curious too but not enough to purchase one. The only thing I have used are those lux apps on the cell phone and well I'm not about to dunk it so all just in air.

The light sits about 10" above the rim and I would say 15" to middle of substrate so 25". The plants grow very slow and steady, take the Rugosa, it grows maybe 6" every 3 weeks. Most pearl but not very intensely, overall I'm very impressed with growth vs health. 

I'm just bored and I might speed up the tank to see what happens. Combine that with looking at Marian Sterian's tanks too much where he has 18000 lux at the substrate on some. For reference the highest lux I got at 21" was 16000 with all 8 bulbs. Makes sense since most bulbs are at least 2 years old or value brands.


----------



## Greggz

Hendy8888 said:


> I'm just bored and I might speed up the tank to see what happens.


I get it. Sounds like me going to Landen Soil..........why.....just because I want to see what happens.



Hendy8888 said:


> Combine that with looking at Marian Sterian's tanks too much where he has 18000 lux at the substrate on some. For reference the highest lux I got at 21" was 16000 with all 8 bulbs. Makes sense since most bulbs are at least 2 years old or value brands.


Yeah Marian's tanks are simply fantastic. He runs 14 x 39W over a 6' tank. So the same as running 7 six foot bulbs. He also uses a bunch of colored bulbs, and I am guessing you could easily get to similar PAR as his.

I know in my case, anything over about 150 PAR and all heck can break loose. Although might test that theory again once my tank gets into good balance with the soil. 

In the meantime, look forward to seeing what happens if you step on the gas!


----------



## Capsaicin_MFK

I love the variety of colors and shapes you have in this aquarium! I saw you had a bunch of posts on the bulb combo thread. Which bulb combo do you like the most for in-person color? I know pictures tend to change the looks, so I'm curious what you prefer.


----------



## vvDO

Hendy8888 said:


> Was messing around finding lux values (with a cell phone) at different lighting heights and took a FTS. This is an option in the near future, still on the fence. Lights have been lowered a bit already and the 8 bulb burst has started to get extended. The second photo is as it stands with only 4 bulbs hence the different colours. Really would miss the open top view I think.
> 
> 
> 
> Will be doing a fairly large trim tomorrow so will be missing the colours for a bit. Probably continue my harassment of the rock algae.



Really love the colors and warm feeling from the first photo.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Hendy8888

Capsaicin_MFK said:


> I love the variety of colors and shapes you have in this aquarium! I saw you had a bunch of posts on the bulb combo thread. Which bulb combo do you like the most for in-person color? I know pictures tend to change the looks, so I'm curious what you prefer.


That's a loaded question as everyone is different but I think in person I like the 3000k/blue plus/660nm/super flora the best. Anything heavy in purple is slightly washed out in person. This combo looks dim to the eye and that really helps make it look good too. Some of my favorite looks of the tank come as the tubes are warming up.

Now the photo above is:
3000k/blue plus/6400k/aquablue special/Fiji Purple/630nm/aquaflora/660nm

It looks really good in person, that's a ton of light and everything was really lit up. Another consideration is the bulb placement over different plants. All the red bulbs in the back make the R. Macrandra Catipillar really shine by highlighting the red in it. They also change the shade of green on the Rugosa but it works since it differentiates the similar coloured plants from the front of the tank.


----------



## Hendy8888

Greggz said:


> I get it. Sounds like me going to Landen Soil..........why.....just because I want to see what happens.


Probably due to us only having one tank.


Greggz said:


> Yeah Marian's tanks are simply fantastic. He runs 14 x 39W over a 6' tank. So the same as running 7 six foot bulbs. He also uses a bunch of colored bulbs, and I am guessing you could easily get to similar PAR as his.


I can't get enough of his tanks, would love to learn more about his technique growing/trimming. I take note how low his light fixtures are on a lot of his tanks and reading some remarks about the 18000 lux on the substrate leads me to believe it's not just for pictures. 


Greggz said:


> I know in my case, anything over about 150 PAR and all heck can break loose. Although might test that theory again once my tank gets into good balance with the soil.
> 
> In the meantime, look forward to seeing what happens if you step on the gas!


Good thing I don't have a PAR tester! What I don't know can't hurt me. lol


----------



## Quagulator

Hendy8888 said:


> Probably due to us only having one tank.


There's a pretty simple solution for that you know


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## Hendy8888

Quagulator said:


> There's a pretty simple solution for that you know


Don't tempt me.


----------



## zivvel

Hendy8888 said:


> Don't tempt me.


That's our job, sir.

You know you want it.


----------



## Hendy8888

Quick update on the tank, I upped the co2 and did a very aggressive trim a while ago. Took the opportunity to try and clean some rocks, as of now they haven't made it back in the tank. I really can't tell any difference and plants took their place. Still getting GDA which is annoying but manageable. 
After 24hr hydrogen peroxide soak, lot's of dead bacteria/algae (should have scrubbed too). The shrimp didn't mind though.


L. Glandulosa is a balancing act, it's in a dead zone and shows flat leaves some weeks and curled others. H. araguaia got moved to a high co2 area as it stalled for many months, hopefully it perks up. R. bonsai is growing the best it has in over a year (still not perfect). Most everything else is happy enough, the R. mexicana goias is currently a weed, right up there with monte Carlo. My current favorite might be the Crypt flamingos, nice healthy slow growth, stay nice and small.

A few weeks ago after the big trim.


Away for 5 days so decided on a whim to run all 8 bulbs for only 4 hours to see what happens.


----------



## Greggz

Hendy8888 said:


>


That is one fantastic picture!

Great contrast of colors/shapes and everything looks super healthy.

What's your dosing/water change schedule like these days??


----------



## monkeyruler90

very nice shot!
do you feel like the fish hide for a portion of the day with the high lights using 8 bulbs?


----------



## Hendy8888

Greggz said:


> That is one fantastic picture!
> 
> 
> 
> Great contrast of colors/shapes and everything looks super healthy.
> 
> 
> 
> What's your dosing/water change schedule like these days??


This is a good question, I had to go check. Looks like I'm dosing:
Macros
Weekly ppm but spread out over 7 days.
NO3 - 7.334 ppm
PO4 - 3.334 ppm
K - 13.334 ppm
Mg - 1.6 ppm

Micros - One of Burr's mixes plus Calcium chloride
Weekly ppm but spread out over 7 days.
Cl - 2ppm
Fe - 0.45ppm
Mn - 0.1351ppm
Zn - 0.1197 ppm
B - 0.0903 ppm
Cu - 0.00749 ppm
Mo - 0.00448 ppm
Ni - 0.06300 ppm

I remineralize to:
Ca - 3.15 degrees
Mg - 1.38 degrees
KH - 1.0 ( minus moisture the KCO3 picked up) K should be around 14ppm.

About 54% water change weekly if I can, sometimes it's a few days either way.


----------



## Hendy8888

monkeyruler90 said:


> very nice shot!
> 
> do you feel like the fish hide for a portion of the day with the high lights using 8 bulbs?


They definitely hide a bit more with 8 bulbs vs 4, generally I would say there are very skiddish no mater what. The first 6 months with the same lighting they weren't skittish at all and actually were an annoyance during water changes since they were swimming all over the tank near my hands. When no one is in the room they are out and about but not follow the leader like they were at the start. I might get another group of oto's or other fish in the fall and am interested to see if the behavior changes back.


----------



## Greggz

Hendy8888 said:


> This is a good question, I had to go check. Looks like I'm dosing:
> Macros
> Weekly ppm but spread out over 7 days.
> NO3 - 7.334 ppm
> PO4 - 3.334 ppm
> K - 13.334 ppm
> Mg - 1.6 ppm
> 
> Micros - One of Burr's mixes plus Calcium chloride
> Weekly ppm but spread out over 7 days.
> Cl - 2ppm
> Fe - 0.45ppm
> Mn - 0.1351ppm
> Zn - 0.1197 ppm
> B - 0.0903 ppm
> Cu - 0.00749 ppm
> Mo - 0.00448 ppm
> Ni - 0.06300 ppm
> 
> I remineralize to:
> Ca - 3.15 degrees
> Mg - 1.38 degrees
> KH - 1.0 ( minus moisture the KCO3 picked up) K should be around 14ppm.
> 
> About 54% water change weekly if I can, sometimes it's a few days either way.


Interesting.

So your PO4 dosing is down from previous levels. Notice any differences as you brought it down?

And your Ca/Mg levels are down quite a bit too. Any reason you lowered them??


----------



## Hendy8888

Greggz said:


> Interesting.
> 
> So your PO4 dosing is down from previous levels. Notice any differences as you brought it down?
> 
> And your Ca/Mg levels are down quite a bit too. Any reason you lowered them??



I felt like I was just feeding the substrate PO4 and the pantanal is long gone so reduced it to a normal amount. My macros are mixed to dose 15ml/day but currently am only dosing them at 10ml ever since I missed a couple water changes. I saw a few plants perk up so leaving it for now. Actually was adding extra K after water change that I forgot about....might have to start that again since only dosing 2/3rds of the macro mix.

The remineralized water has lower Ca/Mg to compensate for the daily dosage of Ca and Mg in the micros/macros. I took the Calcium chloride out of the remineralizer and put it in the micros and added some MgSO4 to the macros so lowered it in the remineralizer.

Still aiming for around 5GH. The GDA shouldn’t be a problem as it is in my opinion but I did add some O+ to the tank that I find on top time to time so maybe that’s a factor.


----------



## Hendy8888

Some of my favorite views are when the bulbs turn on but before they warm up.


----------



## PlantedManFromSA

First-off, WOW !!! Great setup and excellent job with DIY work. This is great inspiration and a good reason why DIY is sometimes a good option, obviously if you have the skills for it. I hope many many people get to see what you have achieved with a bit of patience and dedication !!! There is also a lot to be learned from this thread IMO.

I have noticed that you are injecting Co2 into the tank. How are you experiencing Co2 loss with the sump ? I've got a 52 gallon tank with sump which I've been wanting to setup with Co2. I've been putting the idea aside for quite a while as I'm afraid that I will loose to much Co2 and would be a waste of time.

Sorry I don't want to hijack your threat - Keep it going I'll be following this !!


----------



## Grobbins48

Hendy8888 said:


> Some of my favorite views are when the bulbs turn on but before they warm up.


Pictures deserves to be posted again!

I agree- the unique colors that are produced before bulbs are completely warm are fantastic. If you catch it at the right time it really can grab you for a few moments.

Also, you have great placement of the tank in the room- no glare to deal with! This time of year is really tough to get good pictures without blackout shades, etc.


----------



## Hendy8888

PlantedManFromSA said:


> First-off, WOW !!! Great setup and excellent job with DIY work. This is great inspiration and a good reason why DIY is sometimes a good option, obviously if you have the skills for it. I hope many many people get to see what you have achieved with a bit of patience and dedication !!! There is also a lot to be learned from this thread IMO.
> 
> 
> 
> I have noticed that you are injecting Co2 into the tank. How are you experiencing Co2 loss with the sump ? I've got a 52 gallon tank with sump which I've been wanting to setup with Co2. I've been putting the idea aside for quite a while as I'm afraid that I will loose to much Co2 and would be a waste of time.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry I don't want to hijack your threat - Keep it going I'll be following this !!


Thanks so much, no hi-jack at all, part of having a journal is sharing what I do so others can get ideas they might like. 

Co2 hasn't been a limitation with this setup, using a needle wheel is highly effective and incredibly simple. I don't even run a check valve. A 20lb tank lasts 5-6 months when run 8hrs a day. The largest factor leading to this efficiency I believe is having a low KH, I dose to 1 degree or less and it is very easy to get your ph to drop. With higher KH your going to have a much harder time and need to use more co2 to get the ph to move. Since I have been increasing co2 recently I'm at 1.6 ph drop from degassed tank water (previously 1.3). The total drop number is expected to be large compared to if the KH was 10 or 11.

The other factor with a sump is your overflow, herbie/bean animal is really the way to go. Having a full syphon eliminates a lot of gas loss and runs silent. I run a wet/dry chamber that is basically sealed off and the co2 output goes directly under it. The co2 gets trapped in there and builds pressure, I have experimented with venting it out and really not much of a difference. The co2 flows at about 0.15 scfh when it's running and use a co2 controller which many say is a no no with aqua soil. I understand the reasons but using RO water with low KH mitigates this a bit, for myself the benefits outweigh the negatives since I'm away from the tank for long periods sometimes.

To simplify all of this, if you have a sump I recommend using needle wheel injection. Can keep it simple and just increase it slowly, no controller required. If you want to run the output into a cerges reactor you can but on my tank the micro bubbles aren't too noticeable. Try to minimize splashing, make your system silent and you won't be wasting that much co2.


----------



## Hendy8888

Grobbins48 said:


> Also, you have great placement of the tank in the room- no glare to deal with! This time of year is really tough to get good pictures without blackout shades, etc.


This is very true! Brings back memories of my old tank with a large window on the opposite side of the room. Only so much you can do without a big photoshoot. This one is in the basement which solves the daylight, summer heat, and flooring issues but I don't see it as much as I could be.


----------



## rzn7z7

Hendy8888 said:


> This is a good question, I had to go check. Looks like I'm dosing:
> Macros
> Weekly ppm but spread out over 7 days.
> NO3 - 7.334 ppm
> PO4 - 3.334 ppm
> K - 13.334 ppm
> Mg - 1.6 ppm
> 
> Micros - One of Burr's mixes plus Calcium chloride
> Weekly ppm but spread out over 7 days.
> Cl - 2ppm
> Fe - 0.45ppm
> Mn - 0.1351ppm
> Zn - 0.1197 ppm
> B - 0.0903 ppm
> Cu - 0.00749 ppm
> Mo - 0.00448 ppm
> Ni - 0.06300 ppm
> 
> I remineralize to:
> Ca - 3.15 degrees
> Mg - 1.38 degrees
> KH - 1.0 ( minus moisture the KCO3 picked up) K should be around 14ppm.
> 
> About 54% water change weekly if I can, sometimes it's a few days either way.



I see you're adding Cl in your micros recipe - what is your experience with Cl and what are the benefits?


Great tank BTW!


----------



## Hendy8888

rzn7z7 said:


> I see you're adding Cl in your micros recipe - what is your experience with Cl and what are the benefits?
> 
> 
> Great tank BTW!


Thanks! Well lots of people don't use Cl, @Greggz uses RO and I don't think he adds any. His plants grow just fine, this leads me to say you definitely don't need it. If you use tap you probably are getting some regardless I presume. I started this tank never having used RO before and just looked online and settled on James' planted tank remineralizer recipe which included calcium chloride. 

I'm aware that terrestrial plants use Cl and looking at other commercial aquatic plant fertilizer specifically Seachem Flourish you will find it included. I didn't dive into it too deep but remember that Cl is used at a greater rate than any other micro (please correct me if you know otherwise). Recently, I wanted to mix a fertilizer that other locals could try if they wanted so I removed the calcium chloride from the RO mixing and added it to my micro mix. You could say it's the main ingredient compared to the other micros. 

Does it help? I really have no clue, I'm not that educated on the subject, hopefully others with more knowledge can chime in. I do know it's not hurting anything yet.


----------



## zivvel

Hendy8888 said:


> Thanks! Well lots of people don't use Cl, @Greggz uses RO and I don't think he adds any. His plants grow just fine, this leads me to say you definitely don't need it. If you use tap you probably are getting some regardless I presume. I started this tank never having used RO before and just looked online and settled on James' planted tank remineralizer recipe which included calcium chloride.
> 
> I'm aware that terrestrial plants use Cl and looking at other commercial aquatic plant fertilizer specifically Seachem Flourish you will find it included. I didn't dive into it too deep but remember that Cl is used at a greater rate than any other micro (please correct me if you know otherwise). Recently, I wanted to mix a fertilizer that other locals could try if they wanted so I removed the calcium chloride from the RO mixing and added it to my micro mix. You could say it's the main ingredient compared to the other micros.
> 
> Does it help? I really have no clue, I'm not that educated on the subject, hopefully others with more knowledge can chime in. I do know it's not hurting anything yet.


I've heard it makes all your photos great and pets your dog while you're away.

Really, though, I am curious. I have read that it helps with photosynthesis, but .. I've read lots of things, most of them fictional.


----------



## PlantedManFromSA

Hendy8888 said:


> Thanks so much, no hi-jack at all, part of having a journal is sharing what I do so others can get ideas they might like.
> 
> Co2 hasn't been a limitation with this setup, using a needle wheel is highly effective and incredibly simple. I don't even run a check valve. A 20lb tank lasts 5-6 months when run 8hrs a day. The largest factor leading to this efficiency I believe is having a low KH, I dose to 1 degree or less and it is very easy to get your ph to drop. With higher KH your going to have a much harder time and need to use more co2 to get the ph to move. Since I have been increasing co2 recently I'm at 1.6 ph drop from degassed tank water (previously 1.3). The total drop number is expected to be large compared to if the KH was 10 or 11.
> 
> The other factor with a sump is your overflow, herbie/bean animal is really the way to go. Having a full syphon eliminates a lot of gas loss and runs silent. I run a wet/dry chamber that is basically sealed off and the co2 output goes directly under it. The co2 gets trapped in there and builds pressure, I have experimented with venting it out and really not much of a difference. The co2 flows at about 0.15 scfh when it's running and use a co2 controller which many say is a no no with aqua soil. I understand the reasons but using RO water with low KH mitigates this a bit, for myself the benefits outweigh the negatives since I'm away from the tank for long periods sometimes.
> 
> To simplify all of this, if you have a sump I recommend using needle wheel injection. Can keep it simple and just increase it slowly, no controller required. If you want to run the output into a cerges reactor you can but on my tank the micro bubbles aren't too noticeable. Try to minimize splashing, make your system silent and you won't be wasting that much co2.


Thanks for the information, my high tech planted tank measures kh at around 2.5 and a ph at 6.4 when the Co2 in running, not that Im saying this tank will be the same.
I will give this a try and see what happens. For now I must find a way to eliminate the down pipe from sucking to much air and causing to many bubbles in the sump. There's quite a lot of discussions on this matter so I am sure I will find a solution.

In the end any amount of extra Co2 is the aquarium is only beneficial to the plants and filling a Co2 bottle doesn't break the bank either.

"The co2 flows at about 0.15 scfh when it's running and use a co2 controller which many say is a no no with aqua soil" This is also an excellent example to go with what works for you. As with many other things in this hobby. We all read tons of information, many times conflicting information but in the end we must do what works for us. Each tank is different and we all do things in a different way. By judging your success on this amazing tank stick with what works for you. :grin2:


----------



## Squids

Hendy8888 said:


> This is a good question, I had to go check. Looks like I'm dosing:
> Macros
> Weekly ppm but spread out over 7 days.
> NO3 - 7.334 ppm
> PO4 - 3.334 ppm
> K - 13.334 ppm
> Mg - 1.6 ppm
> 
> Micros - One of Burr's mixes plus Calcium chloride
> Weekly ppm but spread out over 7 days.
> Cl - 2ppm
> Fe - 0.45ppm
> Mn - 0.1351ppm
> Zn - 0.1197 ppm
> B - 0.0903 ppm
> Cu - 0.00749 ppm
> Mo - 0.00448 ppm
> Ni - 0.06300 ppm
> 
> I remineralize to:
> Ca - 3.15 degrees
> Mg - 1.38 degrees
> KH - 1.0 ( minus moisture the KCO3 picked up) K should be around 14ppm.
> 
> About 54% water change weekly if I can, sometimes it's a few days either way.


Looks super lean compared to some! The tank looks so great, I might consider dosing similar as well and see what happens. Curious to know what your reasoning is for dosing so lean?


----------



## Hendy8888

Squids said:


> Looks super lean compared to some! The tank looks so great, I might consider dosing similar as well and see what happens. Curious to know what your reasoning is for dosing so lean?


Lean is very relative, I feel the micros are typical for a high light tank and the macros are well above ADA levels. Remember to double the ppm to get what your accumulation will be so currently the tank probably would test around 15-20ppm NO3. H'ra is still a bright orange so not limited, anything below 3-5ppm and will start to turn bright red like you see in a lean tank.

Aqua soil helps to buffer nutrients so you can dose a greater range to the water column. Low KH also makes this easier as well for some species. Rotala's are generally very happy at my levels while Ludwigia's get fussy sometimes. I couldn't keep Pantanal alive long term and Glandulosa fights me constantly. 

As to a reason why I dose at these levels...I don't want to nitrate limit any plants but I don't want fast growth either.


----------



## Greggz

Hendy8888 said:


> Rotala's are generally very happy at my levels while Ludwigia's get fussy sometimes. I couldn't keep Pantanal alive long term and Glandulosa fights me constantly.


+1 and great post.

When looking at a tank and ferts, always pay attention to the mix of plants.

Under discussed, but extremely relevant. 

I keep Pantanal and a bunch of Ludwigia's and Rotala's too. It's a balancing act to keep as many happy as you can. 

I see many threads where folks complain they can't grow this or that. Well they could, but others might suffer. Just saying you can't keep them all happy all the time, so stick with the ones that like the soup you are serving. Your post is a great example of that.


----------



## Hendy8888

Might as well give the 1 week update on the 8xt5ho for 4 hours/day. The most noticeable plant change would be the S. Repens having it's leaves partially closed the entire photo period. Seems like growth might a bit quicker and upright than normal but nothing drastic. 

Glass algae was less than normal as well, going to let it go for another week and see. Four hours is a short viewing period so really not a long term solution but I'm busy doing other things this time of year anyways.


----------



## zivvel

@Hendy8888, your tank is exceptionally photogenic. I like how the plants' colors reflect off the bulb reflectors for the camera.


----------



## Crazygar

Funny you mention that, I was fixating on that as well. As always, incredible. Who needs TV when you have this hobby?

Gary


----------



## Hendy8888

Crazygar said:


> Funny you mention that, I was fixating on that as well. As always, incredible. Who needs TV when you have this hobby?
> 
> Gary





zivvel said:


> @Hendy8888, your tank is exceptionally photogenic. I like how the plants' colors reflect off the bulb reflectors for the camera.


This detail hasn't been lost on myself, I too enjoy those reflections. Having a display with zero equipment is very enjoyable, makes cleaning that much easier as well.


----------



## monkeyruler90

looking very nice!
Do you feel like the plants are the main highlight and the fish are the distraction? would you ever want to stock the tank with more active fish?


----------



## Hendy8888

monkeyruler90 said:


> looking very nice!
> 
> Do you feel like the plants are the main highlight and the fish are the distraction? would you ever want to stock the tank with more active fish?


Currently plants are the only attraction and the fish aren't cooperating. I looked for a quick video showing the fish behavior early on but don't know where it's saved. They were very active even with the bright lights, either something happened or they grow skittish with age. I'm guessing if I add another group of fish they might come out more.

Ideally I would like a group of hatchet's or pencil fish but really would be foolish with their jumping habits and the overflow. All the current inhabitants have been trained to not jump or get sucked to the overflow weir (minus the shrimp).

I will get another group of oto's at some point, currently just have the one. I might try espei rasbora's at some point but it gets pricey when adding large groups. Green neons tick every box when their not skittish. Maybe I'll try my hand at breeding something for fun one of these days.

Fish are definitely not a distraction, I should try to get more photos with them out but it takes some effort. 

Throwback photos


----------



## chicken.nublet

Hendy8888 said:


> Might as well give the 1 week update on the 8xt5ho for 4 hours/day. The most noticeable plant change would be the S. Repens having it's leaves partially closed the entire photo period. Seems like growth might a bit quicker and upright than normal but nothing drastic.
> 
> Glass algae was less than normal as well, going to let it go for another week and see. Four hours is a short viewing period so really not a long term solution but I'm busy doing other things this time of year anyways.


Sigh, that is such a beautiful tank. I would love to be able to make something like this one day, on a smaller scale.


----------



## monkeyruler90

aww yeah, those green neons add a blue streak to the tank! very nice
i've thought about breeding, much cheaper than buying and would be an interesting journey but definitely a time investment


----------



## Hendy8888

Better do my 2 week update of 8x54w t5ho lighting before I forget. Tank is doing great, can't really think of a plant that's struggling at the moment, mostly just old L. Glandulosa leaves in the overflow which is normal for how cramped it is. Glass algae was about the same as last week nothing sticking to the plants though.

I'm still heavily spot dosing hydrogen peroxide, need to pick up some excel at some point to test a mix for the rock BBA. This has become part of my water change routine and will probably continue it at least for a while. I also remembered to add 5ppm K after water change, the H. Pinnatifida will appreciate it I think.

S. Repens with it's half closed leaves. 
C. Flamingo stunning under a blue tube

R. Macrandra Catipillar and R. Wallichii 

P. Palustris

P. Erectus isn't behaving, I want big fat single stems but it's very branchy these days. I'm letting it slide, to force the big stems it would need trimmed more frequently.

Of course a FTS


Setting up for a big uproot and plant day in a week or two, can't say I'm looking forward to it.


----------



## gjcarew

My P. erectus is doing the same thing. Can't figure out why when it's had nice fat stems for the past 3-4 months.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


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## vijay_06

That FTS is jaw dropping stuff! Amazing, purely amazing!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Hendy8888

gjcarew said:


> My P. erectus is doing the same thing. Can't figure out why when it's had nice fat stems for the past 3-4 months.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


Can't tell you why but I normally remove any side shoots from the main stem and replant the leader to encourage it to fatten up. If I let it grow too long without trimming it will send out more side shoots. When it's not happy it will abandon growth on the leader and develop lots of shoots at the top of the stem. Probably a survival tactic if there's a large change in parameters.


vijay_06 said:


> That FTS is jaw dropping stuff! Amazing, purely amazing!!!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks vijay_06!


----------



## Hendy8888

Three week update with 8x54w (4 hours), everything is doing great still. No issues, algae is still receding, glass didn't really need cleaned this week. Plants are happy, getting overgrown and flow will be reduced dramatically this week so will compare with the normal results. Not a very big update so here are some pics.


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## monkeyruler90

looking awesome!
By the way, how is the output of your filter. There are a few pictures of it that show it's drilled behind the overflow, is there a nozzle on it to direct flow or does it just shoot out straight across the back?


----------



## Hendy8888

monkeyruler90 said:


> looking awesome!
> 
> By the way, how is the output of your filter. There are a few pictures of it that show it's drilled behind the overflow, is there a nozzle on it to direct flow or does it just shoot out straight across the back?


Just a single 1" bulkhead for the output, I used 1" PVC for both drain and return plumbing. I want as much flow as I can but still be gentle. No need to add nozzles in my opinion as it just speeds the water up. I routinely run the pump on 100% after water changes and nothing uproots. That's a ton of flow but relatively gentle for how much water is moving. A bonus is the clean look of the output and nothing extra to clean.


----------



## monkeyruler90

I like how it's hidden behind the overflow ! looks beautiful and much better than dealing with a glass lily pipe or any other nozzle i've seen.

Maybe I'll try it when I drill my tank next time


----------



## Crazygar

Loads of great ideas on this thread. My next project I may attempt something similar, the cleaner looking the better.

Gary


----------



## Hendy8888

Cleaning clear pipes gets old fast, cleaning anything does really. I debated having two outlets on either side for symmetry but am glad I didn't. The big decision was how far down to drill the hole, I wanted surface movement but no splashing...I think the OCD also wanted it in the middle of how tall the overflow was. It worked out but wouldn't put it any higher, the tank has lots of surface movement.

Also, having it plumbed as a peninsula style led to the single outflow being effective and getting that circular flow pattern which is desirable.


----------



## Crazygar

Is is possible to provide a top down drawing of the flow/piping? 

For me having surface moving is key as the exchange is important to me and one of the factors i always build into Aquariums. The technical side I am very interested in. My next project will be excess of 100 GAL so I am using the tech from your setup as a guideline.

Gary


----------



## Hendy8888

Crazygar said:


> Is is possible to provide a top down drawing of the flow/piping?
> 
> 
> 
> For me having surface moving is key as the exchange is important to me and one of the factors i always build into Aquariums. The technical side I am very interested in. My next project will be excess of 100 GAL so I am using the tech from your setup as a guideline.
> 
> 
> 
> Gary


No problem, do you want like flow pattern in the tank or a pic of the plumbing under the tank?


----------



## Crazygar

Flow pattern please.

One question, I am guessing the flow will keep out most but do you have some sort of screen on that 1" outflow pipe? 

Gary


----------



## Hendy8888

Crazygar said:


> Flow pattern please.
> 
> 
> 
> One question, I am guessing the flow will keep out most but do you have some sort of screen on that 1" outflow pipe?
> 
> 
> 
> Gary


No screen, nothing has ventured in yet. At water change the shrimp might entertain it a bit but they would get blown back out. The nerite snails stayed out as well when they were in this tank. By far the inhabitants prefer the overflow, shrimp can get by anything it seems. 

Here are a couple pics, the tumble in the valley isn't pronounced like the photo but it's a low flow area especially when the P. erectus gets tall. It basically goes over top all the rear stems in the back, hits the far right side and gets pushed all the way to the bottom then follows the "front" of the hills across the bottom. It spreads out considerably going right to left across the bottom and hits all the tops of the plants.


----------



## Crazygar

Thanks Hendy8888 that looks like the direction I am considering for the new project. Aesthetics are important to me as well and how clean your tank looks is the best example I have found out there that demonstrates that.

The flow is perfect. I appreciate the response, as from the looks of it, others as well.\

Gary


----------



## Chizpa305

The colors! So vivid!


----------



## Capsaicin_MFK

Easily my favorite tank of 2020! I love the color varieties of both the plants and the T5 bulbs. I am 100% going with that type of overflow system on my next tank. I had an FX5 attached to 2 bulkheads at the bottom of my tank, but I always struggled with surface biofilm.

Do you use any type of spray nozzle or is it just a naked bulkhead where the return pump leads into the tank?


----------



## Hendy8888

Crazygar said:


> Thanks Hendy8888 that looks like the direction I am considering for the new project. Aesthetics are important to me as well and how clean your tank looks is the best example I have found out there that demonstrates that.
> 
> The flow is perfect. I appreciate the response, as from the looks of it, others as well.\
> 
> Gary


Can't wait to see it! I really strived to keep this build clean looking, takes a bit longer tracking down specific parts but it's part of the journey. 



Chizpa305 said:


> The colors! So vivid!


As the bulbs were warming up, heavily red.




Capsaicin_MFK said:


> Easily my favorite tank of 2020! I love the color varieties of both the plants and the T5 bulbs. I am 100% going with that type of overflow system on my next tank. I had an FX5 attached to 2 bulkheads at the bottom of my tank, but I always struggled with surface biofilm.
> 
> Do you use any type of spray nozzle or is it just a naked bulkhead where the return pump leads into the tank?


Thanks! Biofilm is no fun to look at, need some sort of skimming in most planted tanks. Air stones can work too but that look isn't for me. You will love the "ghost" style overflow, a few different brands and I'm happy with Modular Marine. They have clear bottoms on the external box which is great to shine a light through when netting shrimp that get through the internal box. They were also the only company willing to do custom orders if you need it.

As for the outflow it's a single 1" naked bulkhead, see post #358 for a picture and explanation.


----------



## DanG

I've loved this thread from the start, even from the extraordinary stand build... wow. Your tank is gorgeous. I've gone back of late to look at the early post to try to understand in detail how your sump is set up. Did you post a detail description sometime? For example, instead of having your inflow go into the filter socks, as I've seen in many designs, it appears your filter socks are in the second chamber and the flow in them goes from outside to inside? Is that true? Also, your outflow back into the tank is so elegant and unobtrusive (elegant this tank is, for sure). You must have a pretty good handle on eliminating the chance of sump flooding due to siphoning from the outflow, should it ever occur? My interest is pretty academic at this point... fantasizing about a large tank build in the future.


----------



## Hendy8888

DanG said:


> I've loved this thread from the start, even from the extraordinary stand build... wow. Your tank is gorgeous. I've gone back of late to look at the early post to try to understand in detail how your sump is set up. Did you post a detail description sometime? For example, instead of having your inflow go into the filter socks, as I've seen in many designs, it appears your filter socks are in the second chamber and the flow in them goes from outside to inside? Is that true? Also, your outflow back into the tank is so elegant and unobtrusive (elegant this tank is, for sure). You must have a pretty good handle on eliminating the chance of sump flooding due to siphoning from the outflow, should it ever occur? My interest is pretty academic at this point... fantasizing about a large tank build in the future.


Thanks DanG! I am well over due to make a little sump tour with pictures. The sump took ideas from the Aqueon Proflex and the Magnavor Berliner designs. The first chamber is like the Magnavor, it eneded up being a perfect spot for the heater as well. A big negative is that I cannot reach inside that chamber to clean it, the recirculating pipe does go lower into the chamber to get anything that settles. Initially I was going to have a lid so I fixed a piece of acrylic over the first chamber to attach the pipes to. 

The water drops into the second chamber onto a filter sock tray and goes into the filter socks it then fills up the second chamber and overflows below the filter sock tray into the drip tray. The flow is inside to outside of the socks. One of the holes for a sock is a little close to the first chamber and breaks the laminar flow so I add filter floss on top of that entire chamber as a pre filter, it also stops any splashing.

As for the output into the tank, it doesn't have any check valves or syphon breaks, instead I made sure the sump can handle all of the display water that flows back into it when the pump stops. The only reason I might add a check valve would be so I can use the feed mode on the return pump. I would rather not back flush any crud from the pipes into the system just to feed the fish. If the return pump had a super low flow setting just enough to keep the water moving it would work too.


----------



## DanG

Thanks for the wonderful description of the sump. Answers my questions. Now I'll spend some more time studying your photos. Your tank is so extraordinary! I've show your photos to my wife, just to give her an idea of how beautiful a tank can be... a rare treat.


----------



## Hendy8888

Here are some photos of the sump and plumbing to help out with my description.

Here you can see the filter sock tray and how it's mounted, attached the acrylic pieces with SCS1200 silicone, it bonds to acrylic extremely well for being a silicone. The tray just slides in and has a tight enough fit that I don't worry about bypass. You can also see the heater placement and the intake pipes on the left, you only want it 1" below the water line so air can purge easier on restarts of the full syphon. The pipe near the rear goes down deeper to help clean any sediment in that chamber.

Socks in place, you can see on the back sock the water jumps out a bit since the hole is too close to the first chamber.

Easy fix was to put some filter floss and stopped any crashing water.

The drip tray also gets some filter floss, mainly to catch anything when the socks get changed. The wet/dry chamber is air tight and builds pressure so I stuck a piece of rigid tube in to help vent it. I have run it both ways and couldn't tell a difference.

Still need to tidy up the tubing but gives a overall picture of the plumbing. Only using one output on the manifold for a purigen reactor, room for another and UV if I ever want to put something else on. The black boxes behind the manifold are the Avast marine ATO pressure switch and pump. 

Screen out of stainless steel mesh to insert behind the overflow weir. It's made to pinch fit and is smaller on the bottom to clear the pass through pipes inside.

Installed, I found out the farther I push it down inside the more skimming effect there is. The mesh screen does diminish the skimming of the weir with my setup.

Bulkheads on the external box are installed upside down verses the traditional way to get more of a clean look. Clear pvc primer and cement were used for the same reason.

The unions are installed all at the same height and furniture grade pvc was used. Make sure to clean off all those ugly barcodes from your pvc fittings with acetone too.

One of the tillandsia is blooming again, not as spectacular as the first but still neat.


----------



## DanG

Thanks so much for the detailed description with the great photos. Just excellent. Do you worry about CO2 loss with the wet/dry trickle filter chamber of the sump? I think your lights may be unique in these forums? So many of us have switched over to LED's. Thanks again for sharing!


----------



## Hendy8888

DanG said:


> Thanks so much for the detailed description with the great photos. Just excellent. Do you worry about CO2 loss with the wet/dry trickle filter chamber of the sump? I think your lights may be unique in these forums? So many of us have switched over to LED's. Thanks again for sharing!


I don't worry about it at all, this setup goes through 20lbs of co2 in about 5-6 months with a 1.2ph drop. Now that co2 is higher it lasts maybe 3-4 months, only gone through one cycle and the last tank was a bit underfilled. With the needle wheel and low KH it hits the target co2 in 15 minutes. I struggled pretty bad in my old 120gal with co2 using a reactor with high KH water.

As for t5's, well the LED lights are still playing catch up in terms of performance. There getting better all the time though.


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## [email protected]

great tank coming


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## mboley

Hendy8888 said:


> With the needle wheel and low KH it hits the target co2 in 15 minutes. I struggled pretty bad in my old 120gal with co2 using a reactor with high KH water.


Needle wheel? Can you explain that please? Also, what Kh level do you try and maintain? With my just 25% weekly water changes set at 2Kh my Ph bumps up right after water changes and affects my Ph drop for a few days until my active substrate takes the Kh back down. My tank is doing better than ever so I just leave the bubble rate as is and don't worry about it yet, but I assume as the Landon substrate ages, Kh will start to accumulate more? Is that thinking correct?

Fantastic sump design btw!


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## Hendy8888

mboley said:


> Needle wheel? Can you explain that please? Also, what Kh level do you try and maintain? With my just 25% weekly water changes set at 2Kh my Ph bumps up right after water changes and affects my Ph drop for a few days until my active substrate takes the Kh back down. My tank is doing better than ever so I just leave the bubble rate as is and don't worry about it yet, but I assume as the Landon substrate ages, Kh will start to accumulate more? Is that thinking correct?
> 
> Fantastic sump design btw!


Needle wheel impeller on a small pump instead of a normal impeller. It's used for skimmers in saltwater to create micro bubbles. Instead of sucking in air you can just hook up the co2 line into the venturi port and it chops the co2 into micro bubbles. I put the output into an area of the sump that doesn't go directly through the return pump to minimize the micro bubbles inside the display. As far as I remember Tom Barr was the main person with that idea a few years ago. It is an incredibly simple and effective way to inject co2 into large tanks.


I re-mineralize to 1 degree KH, last I checked the tank was slightly higher but my test kits are not that accurate. The PH/ KH relationship you are experiencing is normal, If your livestock permits you can just add less KH to minimize the swing if you want. Using Tropica substrate I didn't notice the KH being taken up but I wasn't testing to find out much either. I'm not going to adjust the co2 with every water change, that's for sure. Your thinking is correct, I'm no expert though.


----------



## DanG

I have one additional dumb question. What are those two cylinders in front of the Purigen reactor in the sump return? Are they where the fertilizer dosing goes, dosing doodads of some kine? Or something completely different? Sorry for my ignorance. Everything is so elegant and clean in and under your tank. Just gorgeous.


----------



## Hendy8888

DanG said:


> I have one additional dumb question. What are those two cylinders in front of the Purigen reactor in the sump return? Are they where the fertilizer dosing goes, dosing doodads of some kine? Or something completely different? Sorry for my ignorance. Everything is so elegant and clean in and under your tank. Just gorgeous.


Not a dumb question at all. They are indeed the fertilizer dosing containers, nothing special just a couple 800ml glass Voss water bottles.


----------



## Hendy8888

This little guy had a rough go in the 90 gallon due to the acidic water and his shell was eroding pretty bad. He now lives in the hard water (tap) neglected tank and is healing. Thought it was neat that the new shell is completely different coloration.


A little behind on the water changes lately but got a FTS today. Replaced the 3000k for a purple and with only 4 bulbs till the co2 ramped up.

All 8 still going strong.


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## Quagulator

Tank is looking really good as usual! Where did you acquire your crypt flamingo?


----------



## gjcarew

Not that you asked but I think I liked it more with the 3000k. The greens look drab with the extra purple.

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## Hendy8888

gjcarew said:


> Not that you asked but I think I liked it more with the 3000k. The greens look drab with the extra purple.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


I totally agree but that orange is on fire. lol


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## Hendy8888

Limnophila Aromatica Mini

High light / CO2 / ferts

Low light / no co2 / zero water column fertilizers


----------



## Hendy8888

New additions!
A small group of tank bred Sturisoma panamense aka Royal farlowella. 


As suspected the green neons are making more appearances these days with the new tank mates which is wonderful. There are a few that have lost coloration which is concerning but there's no die off the past two years so hopefully not neon tetra disease.

The auto doser stopped feeding macros, don't know how long but I feel I caught it fairly quickly. Both NO3 and PO4 tested zero with my expired kits and a couple plants were just starting to stunt. P. Erectus was the quickest plant to react, tops started splitting with small stunted growth. It's still recovering so I'm letting it grow out, some plants including all Ludwigia's didn't care..they are root fed though. Mermaid weed stunted one node and then un-stunted the next when dosing was corrected. Overall it was a hiccup in growth, and I got some valuable observations. 
Around the same time I did a very heavy trim but here is the FTS as of today. Bulb combo went back to the previous setup.


Also, here is a little work in progress, may have to start another journal. I'm no pro at scaping or nano tanks so should be fun.


----------



## Asteroid

Hendy8888 said:


> ...
> 
> Also, here is a little work in progress, may have to start another journal. I'm no pro at scaping or nano tanks so should be fun.


Somehow I think you'll figure it out, based on your plant placement in the 90G.


----------



## Hendy8888

Asteroid said:


> Somehow I think you'll figure it out, based on your plant placement in the 90G.


I'm being limited to "green plants only" by a substantial household influencer as well. We will see how long that lasts.


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## monkeyruler90

just green plants? hmmm still tons of possibility


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## Hendy8888

Not a huge update but some plants that have stood out over the past few weeks enough to catch my attention. There always seems to be a couple different species that look more spectacular than normal for some reason.

A week or two ago it was Crypt Flamingo, really a vibrant colour. It sits directly under an ATI blue plus and a 3000k bulb. The next 4 bulbs aren't lit in this pic so they are emphasized on the Flamingo. By far it's the lowest maintenance plant in the tank, wins best show vs maintenance hands down.


Today it's the Rotala Macrandra Catipillar from @Greggz that is displaying a blazing orange colour. Same 4 bulb combo but directly above is a Giesemann aqua flora / 630 or 660nm. The Macrandra Catipillar is just left of the wallichii in back. 


The H. Araguaia is back to normal, when it was on the other side of the tank (where the Flamingo is now) the stems would melt above the root. Got bad enough I had to move it to a higher co2 area.


It's refreshing to interact with the fish again, they come to be fed and have coloured up more. It was strange having to fend them off from the suction hose when changing the water today. 
Different lighting and camera attacking an O-nip tab.


Still undecided if I want to start a new journal for the 30a or just include my updates here...Don't see a lot of changes that will happen to it so probably will update this thread title to include it. More of a nature style that may get re-scaped every so often.

Started out as a cheap Yi Ding 30cm AIO. Not fond of the back wrap or the logo as an overflow weir but the price was right and silicone work is great.

Replaced the wrap with gloss black vinyl and looks so much better.

I think this was the final layout, picked up a Chihiros C2 to fit. Great little light and the all white is refreshing from what runs on the 90 gallon.

All planted up...I did add some mini hair grass today as well. I was disappointed with the tissue cultures this time around. Used horti lab and they were very sparse compared to Tropica and ABC plants. The HC had mould and maybe salvaged half the pot, really needs another pot or two of the HC but I'm no Green Aqua when it comes to planting. Horti lab did come out with a Ludwigia 'white' tissue culture and is being sold by Angel fins for any of the Canadians reading this. I'm still skeptical since it didn't look like Ludwigia white emersed but time will tell.

Two days later....bacteria bloom.


----------



## gjcarew

Dear God man. I've never seen limnophila aromatica mini that white looking before, I need to get my hands on it again! 

Amazing colors on all the rotalas as well. And I love that eriocaulon you have in front of it too, I want to snag some next time Burr is selling it but I'm always too late!

I have to admit when I started following this journal I thought, "this guy can make a fabulous stand but all he grows is algae!" But the level of plant husbandry, and especially the consistency over time, has been super impressive. Excellent work [emoji108]

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


----------



## Hendy8888

gjcarew said:


> Dear God man. I've never seen limnophila aromatica mini that white looking before, I need to get my hands on it again!
> 
> Amazing colors on all the rotalas as well. And I love that eriocaulon you have in front of it too, I want to snag some next time Burr is selling it but I'm always too late!
> 
> I have to admit when I started following this journal I thought, "this guy can make a fabulous stand but all he grows is algae!" But the level of plant husbandry, and especially the consistency over time, has been super impressive. Excellent work [emoji108]
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


Thanks! I definitely can grow algae, the hair algae episode was a bit much though. Being away from the tank too much during an algae outbreak makes it tough to combat. 

I was hoping the Aromatica mini would grow green when first planted but it definitely is not in this tank. I really like the Erio Lineare, easy, self splitting and unique colour. Definitely grab some if you can.

The tank is over 2 years old now and I am always trying to learn more. We read so much information on the internet but seeing changes in your own tank and trying to correlate it with your husbandry is most valuable.


----------



## Greggz

Hendy8888 said:


> I was hoping the Aromatica mini would grow green when first planted but it definitely is not in this tank. I really like the Erio Lineare, easy, self splitting and unique colour. Definitely grab some if you can.


Yeah that color on the Limno is interesting. I've not seen it quite that color before.

Any clues as to why you think it so whitish?


----------



## Hendy8888

Greggz said:


> Yeah that color on the Limno is interesting. I've not seen it quite that color before.
> 
> 
> 
> Any clues as to why you think it so whitish?


It's always shown what I would call a yellowish purple in this tank, under leaf is all purple. Recently I've seen some on the face book group that looks similar to mine. The white In the above photo may be from lingering effects of the zero NO3 for a few days. I didn't really notice till it got pointed out but definitely looks more pronounced from above. 

I want to say light intensity maybe but even with only 4 bulbs at the very edge with 25" from the light it doesn't change to green. So really I don't know, have to see if any plant gurus chime in. Maybe it's all the Cl+ I dose...lol


----------



## Greggz

Hendy8888 said:


> So really I don't know, have to see if any plant gurus chime in. Maybe it's all the Cl+ I dose...lol


So I'm curious. What made you start adding Calcium Chloride?

And did you notice any difference when you did?


----------



## Hendy8888

Greggz said:


> So I'm curious. What made you start adding Calcium Chloride?
> 
> 
> 
> And did you notice any difference when you did?


Always have since day one on this tank. It was my first time remineralizing RO water so I copied the recipe on 'James' planted tank' website. His recipe checked all the boxes I wanted and he listed all the ingredients pretty straightforward. It just happened to have a bit of chloride added in.

Since then I've tweaked things of course and started looking at other manufacturers ingredients. If I remember correctly Seachem flourish has 1.5% chlorine as it's main ingredient. Fe comes in a distant second at 0.32%. This is a result of using potassium chloride, calcium chloride, and Mg chloride instead of sulphate. It seems to get a bad rap but it's actually a quality product once you look at the ingredients. The main drawback is that it's expensive as sin for a 98% bottle of water.

I have no reason to suspect aquatic plants use chloride but it's common knowledge that it's included in the 17 essential elements that terrestrial plants use. To that extent combined with Seachem using it in flourish I continue to dose it just like any other element. 

Sounds like your next experiment should be adding a bit of Cl so we can make some observations.


----------



## Greggz

Hendy8888 said:


> Sounds like your next experiment should be adding a bit of Cl so we can make some observations.


It was ordered before I asked the question......so you can count on that!:wink2:


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## zivvel

Hendy8888 said:


> Sounds like your next experiment should be adding a bit of Cl so we can make some observations.





Greggz said:


> It was ordered before I asked the question......so you can count on that!:wink2:


Haha, right there with you @Greggz. roud: I was just evaluating my micros since I have about 1 more dose left in my bottle with Saturday maintenance looming. "Arriving tomorrow by 9pm." I'm mixing for 0.65ppm Cl/dose for 1.95ppm/wk.


----------



## Hendy8888

More new additions, 30 small Microdevario Kubota. Very energetic small rasbora that stays in the top third of the tank. They are enjoying the high flow up there and no jumpers so far (knock on wood). Should colour up quite a bit still as they mature.
Hard to get any sort of decent photo.


Other changes:

Now at a 3:1 Ca:Mg ratio from the 2:1, Ca stayed the same and reduced Mg.

Rugosa and arcuata switched spots in the back right, arcuata wanted more light and Rugosa needed less so made perfect sense.

P. Erectus has been struggling so it all got uprooted and kept the best new growth. Should be back to normal now that the old growth is gone.

Added a tissue culture Ludwigia white on the right middle. Immediate new growth but not quite white yet.

Not photographed but also added some big emersed stems of Nesaea pedicellata 'golden', Ammannia senegalensis, and Ludwigia 'cuba' that I have in no way any room for but apparently I have a problem... 


*Edit*
All 34 species..I think I'm done collecting for a minute.


----------



## rzn7z7

Tank looks great as always!

What prompted the change to your Ca:Mg ratio?


----------



## Hendy8888

rzn7z7 said:


> Tank looks great as always!
> 
> 
> 
> What prompted the change to your Ca:Mg ratio?


Attempting to figure out the pinhole issue with the H. Pinnatifida, micros got slightly lowered as well.


----------



## monkeyruler90

I'm trying to chase down the pinhole problem on some anubias as well. I've been adding Mg after water changes and have definitely noticed the difference. Waiting for another month to see if the newer leaves stay the same or get the same holes


----------



## Hendy8888

monkeyruler90 said:


> I'm trying to chase down the pinhole problem on some anubias as well. I've been adding Mg after water changes and have definitely noticed the difference. Waiting for another month to see if the newer leaves stay the same or get the same holes


Currently did the opposite, reduced Mg and micros to see if I can get better K uptake. Admittedly, I have no clue what I'm doing though. It's all fun and games right now since everything is growing well, just feel like old growth could be better.


----------



## Econde

Hendy8888 said:


> Currently did the opposite, reduced Mg and micros to see if I can get better K uptake. Admittedly, I have no clue what I'm doing though. It's all fun and games right now since everything is growing well, just feel like old growth could be better.


That's how I feel when I read all you veteran's posts! I'm semi winging it all. Beautiful tank by the way!


----------



## burr740

Hendy8888 said:


> Currently did the opposite, reduced Mg and micros to see if I can get better K uptake. Admittedly, I have no clue what I'm doing though. It's all fun and games right now since everything is growing well, just feel like old growth could be better.


I think your on the right track. Its an induced K deficiency. Ive cured it in H pinna before by lowering micros, Mg is probably the next likely suspect. 

Tank looks awesome, its a real stunner!


----------



## Greggz

This is interesting.

The last time you posted your fert dosing you were at about 27 ppm weekly K (macros + K2CO3).

Mg was about 8 ppm and Fe .45 weekly. And then I think you lowered Mg again after that.

Just saying the K looks relatively high already, and Mg and Fe seem to be good levels.

But hey, like you said, I don't know what I am doing either!!:wink2:

Will be interesting to see where this goes.

In the meantime, tank is looking great as usual. So whatever you are doing, I wouldn't change too much.


----------



## Hendy8888

Econde said:


> That's how I feel when I read all you veteran's posts! I'm semi winging it all. Beautiful tank by the way!


Thank you! I think we all wing it to some extent, there are lots of variables to consider on any given problem. Curing an issue in your own tank where you can see results really helps to understand a bit more than reading all the advice I find.



burr740 said:


> I think your on the right track. Its an induced K deficiency. Ive cured it in H pinna before by lowering micros, Mg is probably the next likely suspect.
> 
> Tank looks awesome, its a real stunner!


Reassuring to know all my lurking around planted tank topics might be paying off. Guidance from users like yourself is a very valuable aspect of this forum.

I am looking forward to your AGA submission this year as always!



Greggz said:


> This is interesting.
> 
> The last time you posted your fert dosing you were at about 27 ppm weekly K (macros + K2CO3).
> 
> Mg was about 8 ppm and Fe .45 weekly. And then I think you lowered Mg again after that.
> 
> Just saying the K looks relatively high already, and Mg and Fe seem to be good levels.
> 
> But hey, like you said, I don't know what I am doing either!!:wink2:
> 
> Will be interesting to see where this goes.
> 
> In the meantime, tank is looking great as usual. So whatever you are doing, I wouldn't change too much.


Pinholes in the H. Pinnatifida have been an issue for quite a while. The Hygro compact got them too when it was in the tank. No other plant seems to have that particular issue but overall I get a lot of lower leaves that shed from various other species. One of the dilemmas I have is how dense this tank is planted, generally most of the slow growers form a canopy and really block out most of the light (and flow) from getting to the lower part of the plant. New growth is slow, steady, and healthy so you don't really notice it much except for the constant collection of old leaves in the overflow weir.

Well I'm not convinced it's the light because of some stems in my no tech tank that are just as thick but never eject their lower leaves. Not doing huge changes but I do suspect like Burr that it's a K deficiency and I didn't see much results throwing in an extra 8-10ppm of K after every water change. Next up is to start lowering things that might help the K uptake, so that's where I'm at now. Micros have been at a solid 0.45 Fe since I began dosing, really the only nutrients I haven't touched.

Currently I'm at 11-5-20 for macros but went as low as 3/4 of that for quite a while in the summer. K from the K2CO3 is a question mark since it really has a lot of moisture in it so I didn't know how much K was being added. I just switched to a fresh batch of KHCO3 this time so I'm more confident saying I'm adding 11ppm K with the RO water right now.

The numbers look okay to me as well, should be lots of K so will be interesting to see what happens.


----------



## Immortal1

Hendy8888 said:


> Thank you! I think we all wing it to some extent, there are lots of variables to consider on any given problem. Curing an issue in your own tank where you can see results really helps to understand a bit more than reading all the advice I find.
> 
> Reassuring to know all my lurking around planted tank topics might be paying off. Guidance from users like yourself is a very valuable aspect of this forum.
> 
> I am looking forward to your AGA submission this year as always!
> 
> Pinholes in the H. Pinnatifida have been an issue for quite a while. The Hygro compact got them too when it was in the tank. No other plant seems to have that particular issue but overall I get a lot of lower leaves that shed from various other species. One of the dilemmas I have is how dense this tank is planted, generally most of the slow growers form a canopy and really block out most of the light (and flow) from getting to the lower part of the plant. New growth is slow, steady, and healthy so you don't really notice it much except for the constant collection of old leaves in the overflow weir.
> 
> Well I'm not convinced it's the light because of some stems in my no tech tank that are just as thick but never eject their lower leaves. Not doing huge changes but I do suspect like Burr that it's a K deficiency and I didn't see much results throwing in an extra 8-10ppm of K after every water change. Next up is to start lowering things that might help the K uptake, so that's where I'm at now. Micros have been at a solid 0.45 Fe since I began dosing, really the only nutrients I haven't touched.
> 
> Currently I'm at 11-5-20 for macros but went as low as 3/4 of that for quite a while in the summer. K from the K2CO3 is a question mark since it really has a lot of moisture in it so I didn't know how much K was being added. I just switched to a fresh batch of KHCO3 this time so I'm more confident saying I'm adding 11ppm K with the RO water right now.
> 
> The numbers look okay to me as well, should be lots of K so will be interesting to see what happens.



Very interesting comments - almost sounds like you were talking about my tank. Pinholes on the Hygro compact have been an issue in both of my high tech tanks. Your macro levels are interestingly close to what I am currently dosing (10-4-18). I had never considered micro dosing could be an issue. I also add K2CO3 to my RO - I keep it in a tightly sealed mason jar (appears to have no moisture issues).
Think I am going to have to follow along on your thread for awhile. "think we all wing it to some extent, there are lots of variables to consider on any given problem" such a true statement!


----------



## Ordinary Joe

@Hendy8888, is your dose of 11-5-20 the weekly total? I want to to raise my phosphate to get closer to 6ppm weekly, but if you're dosing 15ppm weekly, I think I could go even higher. I'm seeing stunted growth in some Cupheas and I'm not so sure it is a CO2 problem anymore.


----------



## Hendy8888

Immortal1 said:


> Very interesting comments - almost sounds like you were talking about my tank. Pinholes on the Hygro compact have been an issue in both of my high tech tanks. Your macro levels are interestingly close to what I am currently dosing (10-4-18). I had never considered micro dosing could be an issue. I also add K2CO3 to my RO - I keep it in a tightly sealed mason jar (appears to have no moisture issues).
> Think I am going to have to follow along on your thread for awhile. "think we all wing it to some extent, there are lots of variables to consider on any given problem" such a true statement!


What Fe are you dosing per week? My K2CO3 is over 2 years old and was stored in a Ziploc bag in the basement. It held more moisture in the summer than winter but was very noticeable. Still shouldn't be a major factor, KH was around 0.75 best I could tell even though I remineralized to 1.0. I'm staying at 0.8 KH with the potassium bicarbonate for now, may raise it back to 1.0 when I have more time to monitor co2.

I had a Ziploc bag of calcium nitrate and the darn thing basically liquefied it was holding so much water. 



Ordinary Joe said:


> @Hendy8888, is your dose of 11-5-20 the weekly total? I want to to raise my phosphate to get closer to 6ppm weekly, but if you're dosing 15ppm weekly, I think I could go even higher. I'm seeing stunted growth in some Cupheas and I'm not so sure it is a CO2 problem anymore.


Yes, 11-5-20 is weekly total, I dose daily with an auto doser. At one point I was dosing 13 or 18 ppm/week PO4 I think to try and have a bit stay in the water column for L. Pantanal but the substrate just soaked it up. Have never grown Cupheas so not sure if they are that picky.


----------



## Immortal1

@Hendy8888 - my micro dosing is as follows (1st number is per dose, 2nd is weekly);
Fe - 0.15/0.45
B - 0.045/0.135
Mn - 0.06/0.18
Zn - 0.05/0.15
Mo - 0.0017/0.0051
Cu - 0.002/0.0060
Ni - 0.0005/0.0015

As for my Kh level, I dose to reach 1dKh. When I use the API Kh test, first drop is pale blue, second drop is orange (if I remember the color combination correctly) so I can only assume I am reasonably below 2dKh.


----------



## Hendy8888

Do you ever start trimming and things just get carried away? [emoji12]


----------



## Grobbins48

Hendy8888 said:


> Do you ever start trimming and things just get carried away? [emoji12]


YES! 

Happens to me often... did this weekend to my low tech tank....

But, I cannot wait to see what you come up with next!


----------



## gjcarew

You doing a rescape after 2 years?

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


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## Greggz

What the ?????????

Oh boy this should be good!!


----------



## Econde

I had to do a double take on that photo update. Wow. Can't wait.


----------



## Hendy8888

The lava rocks were on borrowed time, they were too infested with algae so I took them out to do a bleach soak. Will probably just plant without a hard scape for a bit, at some point I want to add slate rocks as boundaries.

The tank spawned some good GDA when 2 farlowella passed away unnoticed and a couple plants started to melt a bit. Needed some TLC and a good trim, most of the plants aren't worth selling so I mise well use them myself. 

I'm going to have to think about the recent changes I made to the water, some plants and algae are reverting back to previous times, others seemed to have corrected issues. Could just be the decomposing bodies too..


----------



## Greggz

Hendy8888 said:


> I'm going to have to think about the recent changes I made to the water, some plants and algae are reverting back to previous times, others seemed to have corrected issues. Could just be the decomposing bodies too..


You think it could also be that different plants have different optimal water parameters??

I've found when some are the happiest, others might rebel. Tough to bring out peak health in many, many species at once. I find that sometimes I need to find a happy place in the middle, or abandon ones that won't behave. 

But then again, like you said a good bout of ammonia can wreak some havoc as well.


----------



## Hendy8888

Greggz said:


> You think it could also be that different plants have different optimal water parameters??
> 
> 
> 
> I've found when some are the happiest, others might rebel. Tough to bring out peak health in many, many species at once. I find that sometimes I need to find a happy place in the middle, or abandon ones that won't behave.
> 
> 
> 
> But then again, like you said a good bout of ammonia can wreak some havoc as well.


Definitely different plants have preferred water, I don't think I changed enough to warrant a rebellion though. The crypt Flamingo looked as if it wanted to melt just a tad and then sprouted new growth everywhere. It ended up maybe losing 1 or 2 leaves. The A.R. mini is just starting to melt and attract bba from the rocks, it's reverted to old ways, recently it's grown pretty well compared to a year ago.

I'm tempted to bump Mg back up and just lower the micros a bit like Burr said. Overall most growth is still very good, it's the algae that has gotten worse. Again could just be a residual effect of the deaths, time will tell.


----------



## Hendy8888

Teaser pic..


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## Econde

Hendy8888 said:


> Teaser pic..


It's like the computer pre-rendering the graphics before your game loads up!


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## Greggz

Hendy8888 said:


> Teaser pic..


Lol I can see you put a lot more thought into this than I do.

Maybe that's why the tank always looks so good!!:wink2:


----------



## Hendy8888

Greggz said:


> Lol I can see you put a lot more thought into this than I do.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe that's why the tank always looks so good!!:wink2:


To be honest I didn't plan this style yet but changed it last second. The sections got mapped out to make sure I can fit all the species in and happened to have some bamboo pieces on hand. Normally plant placement is chosen as they get added to the tank. It did help visualize what I want without having the hard scape though.


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## gjcarew

Get a load of Takashi Hend-mano over here


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## rzn7z7

Hendy8888 said:


> Teaser pic..



Looks like aquatic acupuncture! :laugh2:


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## monkeyruler90

ohh, I'm excited to see what's coming! 

Yeah, I get spurts of loving hardscape and adding it on but it's hard to always keep clean so now I'm trying to just run things as a Dutch style without any wood/rocks


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## Hendy8888

Finally got around to planting, some stems still need to find the light.


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## gjcarew

Looks great! Reminds me of Tom Barr's style. There was someone else's tank I saw (I think it was Romanian) that had a bunch of streets converging on a single point. It's a cool look and a nice breakaway from the typical "Dutch" style!


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## ipkiss

thats.. insane. fruit stand indeed! In the best way possible!


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## Greggz

ipkiss said:


> thats.. insane. fruit stand indeed! In the best way possible!


Ha I was going to say the same thing......it's more fruit stand than my fruit stand.....and that's saying something.:grin2:

And also in the best way possible. Will be interesting how you keep it tamed once it grows some.


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## ipkiss

gjcarew said:


> Looks great! Reminds me of Tom Barr's style. There was someone else's tank I saw (I think it was Romanian) that had a bunch of streets converging on a single point. It's a cool look and a nice breakaway from the typical "Dutch" style!


There's this polish lady .. 

https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.ne...=cff04f785547eaaee0edbca0a79a71c6&oe=5FAD94FE


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## Greggz

ipkiss said:


> There's this polish lady ..
> 
> https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.ne...=cff04f785547eaaee0edbca0a79a71c6&oe=5FAD94FE


Paulina is one of the best! And I do see the similarities.


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## gjcarew

@ipkiss That's the one!


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## Econde

Wwwooow. Good one @Hendy8888 !


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## monkeyruler90

Yeah, it's going to look great once things grow in. 
Did you arrange things by how fast they grow? quick growers in the back to fill in? or everything grows pretty evenly?


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## Hendy8888

Paulina Zagórowska's tank is one of my top 3 favorites ever! If you haven't seen photo's you need to try and find it. I haven't looked at photo's of it for some time but as you can tell it had a lasting impression on me and after seeing that picture again I feel like I copied it here (unknowingly). I will be happy if it turns out half as nice as her display, it will definitely be interesting trimming as it grows. 
@monkeyruler90 The taller stems like the Cuba, Pinnatifida, H 'ra', Macrandra are all in the back as they will grow the quickest. I tried to arrange similar colour plants in the same section but I really have too many. 
@ipkiss @Greggz I think 'colour wheel' might be more suiting than fruit stand for this one, maybe I could arrange them by shade all the way around. lol


----------



## Greggz

Hendy8888 said:


> @ipkiss @Greggz I think 'colour wheel' might be more suiting than fruit stand for this one, maybe I could arrange them by shade all the way around. lol


LOL......color wheel..... I like that and might borrow it!:grin2:


----------



## zivvel

Looks great! I can't wait to see it when its all grownsed up.


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## nntnam

Wow! The new scape looks awesome!
I've been following this journal for a while.
Sad that the old design had to go. 
But I love the new one also. 
Can't wait to see how it grows in.


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## Hendy8888

I have to say it's refreshing without any hardscape for a change. I can't remember ever having one without something.

After looking back at some old pictures where I felt the tank was doing well I decided to make a few changes. First was to go back to 4 bulbs for 8 hours, there is still a 30 min burst of all 8 which will probably increase to an hour at some point. Let's call it the winter light schedule with double the viewing time. Secondly, the Mg went almost back to previous levels, not quite 2:1 but greater than 2.5:1. Thirdly, both macros and micros got reduced to what they were the last time only 4 bulbs were used. Macros are now 8-3.7-14.6 ppm/week and micros Fe -0.33 ppm/week. 

I am also trying to increase plant husbandry by tying water changes to a certain TDS as much as I can. The goal is to stabilize the tank a bit and see how things respond.

Things still need to fill in a bit but have really been enjoying the livestock. The neons look healthy again and will let me hand feed them. The Kubotai have been a great addition, while the neons are a mid to bottom water fish, the kubotai fill the top level.



Sent from my LG-H933 using Tapatalk


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## coseal

wow!


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## Greggz

Hendy8888 said:


> After looking back at some old pictures where I felt the tank was doing well I decided to make a few changes.


Great post and this caught my eye.

Like you, I keep meticulous records, and can look back at any time and see where all my parameters were. Not just ferts, but CO2, lighting, filter cleanings, etc.

Then like you said, I can go back and look at pics of when the tank was in peak health, and see everything that was going on at the time. 

If I didn't, I would probably just keep making the same mistakes over and over again.


----------



## Hendy8888

Greggz said:


> Great post and this caught my eye.
> 
> 
> 
> Like you, I keep meticulous records, and can look back at any time and see where all my parameters were. Not just ferts, but CO2, lighting, filter cleanings, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> Then like you said, I can go back and look at pics of when the tank was in peak health, and see everything that was going on at the time.
> 
> 
> 
> If I didn't, I would probably just keep making the same mistakes over and over again.


This is one of my main reasons for a journal. I do love the discussion and pictures that come as a result but being able to track a tanks progress all in one spot is a top priority. Everyone just happens to be able to come along for the ride (teach/learn/inspire) which is awesome.


----------



## Hendy8888

There always seems to be a different stand out plant every week for some reason. Last week it was Acmella repens.

This week it's the Proserpinaca palustris, I didn't get a close up but it's the big fat red/orange plant in the top left.

Here is a Repashy lolly pop, always entertaining with cherries/amanos/neons/rasboras/farlowella squabbling over it.


----------



## rzn7z7

The tank is looking great!

Any chance you could provide a plant listing / lineup?


----------



## Hendy8888

rzn7z7 said:


> The tank is looking great!
> 
> 
> 
> Any chance you could provide a plant listing / lineup?


This is a bit of a mess since some of the species are hidden and grouped together or haven't grown tall enough yet (L. Rugosa) but good as it gets for now. Once the background plants grow out I can do a better one. Also have some mini pellia and monte carlo on rocks behind the java fern. The Ammannia and Nesaea are still transitioning from emersed, the re-scape and dip threw them back quite a bit, they will need some time to start growing.


----------



## rzn7z7

Thank you! That's about 30 species, yes?

Must've taken some serious time and effort to lay them out so nicely....well done!


----------



## Greggz

Good to see a pic with all the plants labeled. I've done that a few times in the past, and we should all do it more often.

I remember when I first got started I loved when folks would post a pic like that, as it was very helpful.

And I found it interesting, as you have far more species than I would have guessed.


----------



## Immortal1

Greggz said:


> Good to see a pic with all the plants labeled. I've done that a few times in the past, and we should all do it more often.
> 
> I remember when I first got started I loved when folks would post a pic like that, as it was very helpful.
> 
> And I found it interesting, as you have far more species than I would have guessed.


Agreed, very impressive for a 90g tank. And I also agree - many of us should post more pics with plants listed. Probably been more than a year for me, LOL
Gorgeous tank as always Hendy


----------



## Hendy8888

rzn7z7 said:


> Thank you! That's about 30 species, yes?
> 
> Must've taken some serious time and effort to lay them out so nicely....well done!






Greggz said:


> Good to see a pic with all the plants labeled. I've done that a few times in the past, and we should all do it more often.
> 
> I remember when I first got started I loved when folks would post a pic like that, as it was very helpful.
> 
> And I found it interesting, as you have far more species than I would have guessed.






Immortal1 said:


> Agreed, very impressive for a 90g tank. And I also agree - many of us should post more pics with plants listed. Probably been more than a year for me, LOL
> Gorgeous tank as always Hendy


Thanks all, I had to count a couple times and came up with 32 listed and 2 not listed. I ran out of space to be honest but some are small and will have to sort it out once they grow in. I really should remove some that are common but I always seem to find something to love about every plant. Take the Littorella uniflora and Lilaeopsis brasiliensis, they send runners everywhere and seem to attract algae but I love the dark green both have. I just try to convince myself it's a collection tank at this point even though most are fairly common. 

I do agree about the labeled pictures, I love seeing others as well so I'll make a point to do a better version when things grow in a bit.

As for the re-scape, I must be getting older and seem to take my time more. I just worked on it a bit for 3-4 days in a row, first day removed everything and cleaned up, second I played with those skewers a bit, third and forth I planted for a couple hours each day. I admit there's a lot of work involved sorting and cleaning up that many plants but it was spread out.

One thing to point out is how to store your plants if your not replanting the same day. You really want to avoid putting everything into a bucket of tank water, if one rots then they will all rot. All you need is to remove the plant and stick it into it's own Ziploc baggy, no water, no wet paper towel is needed. If stored in a cool place most healthy plants will last 1 week no problem, some will keep longer but at that point you can expect some rot happening.


----------



## Greggz

Hendy8888 said:


> One thing to point out is how to store your plants if your not replanting the same day. You really want to avoid putting everything into a bucket of tank water, if one rots then they will all rot. All you need is to remove the plant and stick it into it's own Ziploc baggy, no water, no wet paper towel is needed. If stored in a cool place most healthy plants will last 1 week no problem, some will keep longer but at that point you can expect some rot happening.


Good advice. 

Interesting you pointed out that in a bucket, if one rots they all rot.

I was having a discussion with Dennis Wong about this a while back. It's also a good reason to remove dead decaying plant material. He had a good explanation of what was actually happening but it was over my head (not surprising!:grin2.

The general gist was that decaying/rotting plants can affect other plants close by. Will have to try to find the conversation but can't remember where we were having it.


----------



## monkeyruler90

Oh man, I love the green rasboras! 

I've tried to get a good school of them but have had issues with the condition they came in . I did have 3 survive long term and I love how active they are. They're definitely open water fish and don't hide. I'm hoping once I get a good 10-12 of them that they'll encourage the tetras to come out and swim too.


----------



## Hendy8888

monkeyruler90 said:


> Oh man, I love the green rasboras!
> 
> 
> 
> I've tried to get a good school of them but have had issues with the condition they came in . I did have 3 survive long term and I love how active they are. They're definitely open water fish and don't hide. I'm hoping once I get a good 10-12 of them that they'll encourage the tetras to come out and swim too.


They are a beautiful fish. I haven't been successful getting any good photos since they don't stop moving. Definitely a top dwelling open water fish for sure. Luckily the ones I picked up were very healthy, hopefully you can source some more. I may try breeding them at some point down the road but that's a whole new adventure.


----------



## Hendy8888

Not a big update, this month wasn't a display oriented month but the tank doesn't look to bad considering. Macros got changed to a MasterLine 2 clone on a whim. Nitrate is already in line with what I was previously dosing but po4,k, and Mg all got slashed. If anyone knows the Masterline 1 micro clone recipe let me know. All I can find is the ppm for Fe which is pretty rich. As you can tell I have been seeing too many "powered by MasterLine" photo's recently and am easily persuaded by marketing. You have to admit it's the best slogan ever for a planted tank.

Most plants are doing very well, a few are trying their best to die. I'm almost convinced Horti lab's "Ludwigia white" tissue culture is just a smaller form of Ludwigia Cuba which is unfortunate that they are trying to pull that off. Going to grow it emersed to see if any variegation shows up.

I forgot how quick Java fern grows in a high tech tank. It's on a roll now so will need to tend to it before it gets basketball size.


----------



## gjcarew

Hendy8888 said:


> Not a big update, this month wasn't a display oriented month but the tank doesn't look to bad considering. Macros got changed to a MasterLine 2 clone on a whim. Nitrate is already in line with what I was previously dosing but po4,k, and Mg all got slashed. If anyone knows the Masterline 1 micro clone recipe let me know. All I can find is the ppm for Fe which is pretty rich. As you can tell I have been seeing too many "powered by MasterLine" photo's recently and am easily persuaded by marketing. You have to admit it's the best slogan ever for a planted tank.
> 
> Most plants are doing very well, a few are trying their best to die. I'm almost convinced Horti lab's "Ludwigia white" tissue culture is just a smaller form of Ludwigia Cuba which is unfortunate that they are trying to pull that off. Going to grow it emersed to see if any variegation shows up.
> 
> I forgot how quick Java fern grows in a high tech tank. It's on a roll now so will need to tend to it before it gets basketball size.


What's you n/p/k ratio? I'm trying to figure it out but my brain officially turns off at 5 pm on a Friday.

I'm also stealing "not a display-oriented month" haha I love it

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


----------



## Hendy8888

gjcarew said:


> What's you n/p/k ratio? I'm trying to figure it out but my brain officially turns off at 5 pm on a Friday.
> 
> I'm also stealing "not a display-oriented month" haha I love it
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


Previously I was dosing
N8.4 - P3.6 - K14.5 - Mg1.7 / week
50% water change every 4-6 days 

MasterLine 2 clone is
N8.4 - P1.4 - K11.2 - Mg0.84 / week

Display-oriented depends on trimming technique. I had a lot of people wanting plants so I chopped the tank up a bit.


----------



## ipkiss

Ehh. Non display oriented week for lesser peeps like me probably more likely means the plants are just not behaving and they are looking crappy this week.


----------



## Greggz

Hendy8888 said:


> As you can tell I have been seeing too many "powered by MasterLine" photo's recently and am easily persuaded by marketing. You have to admit it's the best slogan ever for a planted tank.


It is a great marketing slogan. But here's my take on it.

Those tanks would probably look 95% the same under your old dosing and Masterline. Those guys, and guys like you, get everything else right. That's what most people don't see or understand. 

I remember back when your PO4 level with VERY high. Tank still presented itself beautifully. 

That being said will be interested to see what differences (if any) you notice. 

My guess is that some will love it, and some will rebel a bit. So you end up with a new subset of plants that are at peak health in the current dosing scheme.


----------



## Hendy8888

Greggz said:


> It is a great marketing slogan. But here's my take on it.
> 
> 
> 
> Those tanks would probably look 95% the same under your old dosing and Masterline. Those guys, and guys like you, get everything else right. That's what most people don't see or understand.
> 
> 
> 
> I remember back when your PO4 level with VERY high. Tank still presented itself beautifully.
> 
> 
> 
> That being said will be interested to see what differences (if any) you notice.
> 
> 
> 
> My guess is that some will love it, and some will rebel a bit. So you end up with a new subset of plants that are at peak health in the current dosing scheme.


I agree 100%, to make maters more complicated I would guess not all are using recommended dosing rates on the bottle. Tropica is a good example of this.

My old soil should be full of PO4 and K at this point so bringing those down isn't very risky. As you have noticed with your soil adventure it's a pretty good buffer for dosing regimes. 

I'm still running Fe at about half of the Masterline rate to see if corrects the pinholes on the pinnatifida. Just curious if their micro mix is only Fe rich or overall rich for everything.


----------



## Hendy8888

ipkiss said:


> Ehh. Non display oriented week for lesser peeps like me probably more likely means the plants are just not behaving and they are looking crappy this week.


Don't you worry I have those plants too! There just hidden because they won't grow. My rotala tulunadensis might be dead, it just doesn't know it yet. Has always had very bad necrosis on most of the plant except the tops but it has started to out pace the growth unfortunately. Probably will need to start over with that one and a few others.

Aren't you due for an update by the way? I always enjoy your tank.


----------



## ipkiss

Hendy8888 said:


> Aren't you due for an update by the way? I always enjoy your tank.


Why thanks! You're absolutely right. I haven't updated in a while. I had some trouble with it in the beginning of this year. The chaotic "winging it" attitude finally bit me and I triggered a tank wide problem. I'll update before the year is over  Gotta compose my notes for a huge update 



Hendy8888 said:


> Don't you worry I have those plants too! There just hidden because they won't grow. My rotala tulunadensis might be dead, it just doesn't know it yet. Has always had very bad necrosis on most of the plant except the tops but it has started to out pace the growth unfortunately. Probably will need to start over with that one and a few others.


I've mulled over a farm tank for this very purpose -- to stash the problem plants, but nah, that's outta hand for me. Pre-covid, this year, I met up with Chantz Cramer, and being inspired by his work, I started throwing some of them outside in an emersed "farm" just to have a backup so I don't lose em forever. A couple of them has been such a breeze to grow this way. But the downside now is that I have to reconvert them back to immersed and well, it doesn't always take.


----------



## Greggz

@Hendy8888 do you ever test your tank parameters?

I would be curious to know what your in tank measured NO3 and PO4 are.


----------



## Hendy8888

Greggz said:


> @Hendy8888 do you ever test your tank parameters?
> 
> 
> 
> I would be curious to know what your in tank measured NO3 and PO4 are.


Just did a water change yesterday but my guesses are:
NO3 - orange
PO4 - blueish green

I'll get back to you with the results in a minute.

Results are in:
NO3 - orange (5ppm?) Was expecting maybe 10? But I have been doing more frequent water changes so that makes sense. For me, yellow = too low, orange = good, red = too high.

PO4 - 0.25ppm? This is a tad lower than usual (normally 1.0ppm) no mater how much I throw at it. Also makes sense since I just reduced P04. 

2014 was a good year right?


Also note the tanks daily fertilizer dose went in about an hour ago and the lights just came on.


----------



## Asteroid

Hendy8888 said:


> ...
> I forgot how quick Java fern grows in a high tech tank. It's on a roll now so will need to tend to it before it gets basketball size.


That's definitely a common misconception people have. Give ferns alot of light/ferts and they really take off once adjusted. I could almost see my Bolbitis growing.

Bump:


Hendy8888 said:


> ...
> 
> I'm still running Fe at about half of the Masterline rate to see if corrects the pinholes on the pinnatifida. Just curious if their micro mix is only Fe rich or overall rich for everything.


I didn't know that, so too much FE can cause pinholes.


----------



## Hendy8888

Asteroid said:


> Bump:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't know that, so too much FE can cause pinholes.


Guess I should add some context to that...I am guessing something in my micro mix is impeding the K uptake of the pinnatifida. It's showing as a K deficiency but I believe there is enough K in the water (I don't test K). @burr740 gave some insight that he has resolved the self induced K deficiency by reducing micros. Mg can also have the same effect sometimes. 

I really can live with the pinholes but why not see if something changes.


----------



## Asteroid

Hendy8888 said:


> Guess I should add some context to that...I am guessing something in my micro mix is impeding the K uptake of the pinnatifida. It's showing as a K deficiency but I believe there is enough K in the water (I don't test K). @burr740 gave some insight that he has resolved the self induced K deficiency by reducing micros. Mg can also have the same effect sometimes.
> 
> I really can live with the pinholes but why not see if something changes.


Ah, got it, should have figured it was something like that. I guess some pinholes isn't the worst thing, unless it opens the plant up to other issues, algae, etc.


----------



## gjcarew

Hendy8888 said:


> 2014 was a good year right?


A fine vintage. I'm partial to the 2011 JBL TestLab.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


----------



## Squids

Hendy8888 said:


> I have to say it's refreshing without any hardscape for a change. I can't remember ever having one without something.
> 
> After looking back at some old pictures where I felt the tank was doing well I decided to make a few changes. First was to go back to 4 bulbs for 8 hours, there is still a 30 min burst of all 8 which will probably increase to an hour at some point. Let's call it the winter light schedule with double the viewing time. Secondly, the Mg went almost back to previous levels, not quite 2:1 but greater than 2.5:1. Thirdly, both macros and micros got reduced to what they were the last time only 4 bulbs were used. Macros are now 8-3.7-14.6 ppm/week and micros Fe -0.33 ppm/week.


What would you say the PPM values of your CA:MG are?


----------



## Hendy8888

Squids said:


> What would you say the PPM values of your CA:MG are?


Currently it is:
Water change water
Ca - 22.5 ppm
Mg - 5.4 ppm

Dosing
Ca- 0.8 ppm/week
Mg - 1.7 ppm/week


----------



## ytz

אקווריום מדהים!!!!!


----------



## chayos00

ytz said:


> אקווריום מדהים!!!!!


Had to bust out google translate for this! LOL Hebrew = Awesome Aquarium!!!!!

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Hendy8888

ytz said:


> אקווריום מדהים!!!!!


תודה רבה לך


chayos00 said:


> Had to bust out google translate for this! LOL Hebrew = Awesome Aquarium!!!!!
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


I had to do the same!


----------



## ytz

Amazing aquarium
It sounds good in any language and especially in Hebrew
This is an excellent forum !!!
I always read it in translation from English to Hebrew


----------



## Hendy8888

Just a photo update, still waiting for the Rugosa (of all plants) to pop it's head up on the back right. 




E. Lineare needs thinning I think.


----------



## gjcarew

What an explosion of color and texture

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


----------



## chayos00

Hendy8888 said:


> Just a photo update, still waiting for the Rugosa (of all plants) to pop it's head up on the back right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> E. Lineare needs thinning I think.


Wow! I've been lacking in following the forum, but damn this really caught my eyes! 

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## NotThePainter

I second the Wow!


----------



## Greggz

Plants are looking very healthy and the contrast of colors is eye popping!

As usual, very, very well done.

Any changes to or experimenting with anything, or just on autopilot?


----------



## Hendy8888

Greggz said:


> Any changes to or experimenting with anything, or just on autopilot?


Currently experimenting with the macros but that's it. Less po4 and K, powered by MasterLine clone. 

Too early for conclusions but I have observed a large reduction in GDA, which was kind of my goal. The GSA reduced as well but I feel like it's on the verge of a comeback on the glass a bit. As for plants, rotala macrandra catipillar and rotala walichii are as big as ever, mermaid weed has maintained it's size too. This is probably due to growing in the top third of the tank now more than anything. 


Next is probably to bring the micros back up to 0.4 ppm Fe and observe. I may try to constantly trim the h'ra and catipillar to the hight I want but will need to sacrifice the nice big tops. 

It's all fun and games tweaking fertilizers, doesn't have as large of impact as some seem to think.


----------



## Greggz

Hendy8888 said:


> Currently experimenting with the macros but that's it. Less po4 and K, powered by MasterLine clone.


What is the ppm of the Masterline Clone?



Hendy8888 said:


> It's all fun and games tweaking fertilizers, doesn't have as large of impact as some seem to think.


True dat!!:grin2:


----------



## ipkiss

Hendy8888 said:


> It's all fun and games tweaking fertilizers, doesn't have as large of impact as some seem to think.


unless one is quite possibly an idiot like me that totally underdosed K, didn't realize it, and went through a good half year spinning wheels


----------



## Hendy8888

Greggz said:


> What is the ppm of the Masterline Clone?


8.4NO3-1.4PO4-11.2K-0.84Mg per week


----------



## Hendy8888

ipkiss said:


> unless one is quite possibly an idiot like me that totally underdosed K, didn't realize it, and went through a good half year spinning wheels


What was your K again? I saw your update and it looks like a whole new tank, I bet you got some valuable observations along the way too.


----------



## ipkiss

Hendy8888 said:


> What was your K again? I saw your update and it looks like a whole new tank, I bet you got some valuable observations along the way too.


Thanks! Yea, learned a couple things  

Due to sloppy math, I went down to a K of only 9ppm according to dosing. Like you, I don't actually have a K test so the figure is just based on the nutrient calculator, but definitely the plants felt it. In combination, I do tend to lard on the micros daily (at the time, one of the burr mixes where he goes 0.15 on the iron) so there's probably that antagonism aspect too if you want to go down that rabbit hole.... Anyway, I was just too clueless at the time to recognize it.


----------



## vraev

Absolutely incredible as always.


----------



## Immortal1

Hendy8888 said:


> 8.4NO3-1.4PO4-11.2K-0.84Mg per week


Wow, very interesting - at least to me.
My weekly macro dosing (keeping in mind I have a lot of poop machines)
NO3=6ppm
PO4=2ppm
K=18ppm
Mg=7.5
Ca=16


What really caught my eye was the 0.84Mg per week. Over the last 4+ months I have been lowering various fert levels but would not have considered that low of a Mg level would work. Clearly, it works for you. Any idea what you are running for a Ca level?

Nevermind, found it 
Currently it is:

Water change water
Ca - 22.5 ppm
Mg - 5.4 ppm

Dosing
Ca- 0.8 ppm/week
Mg - 1.7 ppm/week


----------



## Hendy8888

Immortal1 said:


> What really caught my eye was the 0.84Mg per week. Over the last 4+ months I have been lowering various fert levels but would not have considered that low of a Mg level would work. Clearly, it works for you. Any idea what you are running for a Ca level?
> 
> Nevermind, found it
> Currently it is:
> 
> Water change water
> Ca - 22.5 ppm
> Mg - 5.4 ppm
> 
> Dosing
> Ca- 0.8 ppm/week
> Mg - 1.7 ppm/week


That's it, but now Mg dosed is 0.84 ppm/week down from 1.7 ppm so not really a factor. Mg is primarily in the water change water. That being said if one uses masterline macros with tap water there is a good chance of that low Mg.

I pumped a good amount of po4 and K into the soil the last couple years so it probably is releasing a bit of the K back. I re-mineralize to 0.6 KH with potassium bicarbonate so that is the other source of K too.


----------



## Hendy8888

No app required. [emoji6]


----------



## Greggz

Great pic!

I've got to try to get that reflection off the surface sometime. Looks fantastic!


----------



## Grobbins48

Looks awesome! You know I need to ask... what bulbs are running for this picture?


----------



## gjcarew

Is that the rotala macrandra caterpillar and the h'ra?


----------



## Hendy8888

Greggz said:


> Great pic!
> 
> I've got to try to get that reflection off the surface sometime. Looks fantastic!


You do! I bet you could get some great photos with your tall stems.


Grobbins48 said:


> Looks awesome! You know I need to ask... what bulbs are running for this picture?


It caught my eye as soon as the mid day burst of 8 bulbs went off. The combo is Ati blue plus/3000k/empty x 4/giesemann aquaflora/620nm. The big gap in the middle plays games and really adds to the colours. These plants are right under the aquaflora and 620nm and really brings out orange.


gjcarew said:


> Is that the rotala macrandra caterpillar and the h'ra?


You got it! There is Limnophila rugosa in between loosing the battle of light. The current blows the catipillar over top the rugosa.


----------



## Grobbins48

Very nice- I has a feeling it was a red bulb with wither a flora or a 3000K. Great shot!


----------



## monkeyruler90

that's gorgeous!


----------



## Stan510

What lights are those? I'm a bit put off by LED and I think those colorful photos and vids on youtube are more of the camera's color then the LED lights.
I miss gro lux purple lights myself. Can't find them..but mixed with other colors gave nice color and great growth out of the plants.


----------



## Hendy8888

Stan510 said:


> What lights are those? I'm a bit put off by LED and I think those colorful photos and vids on youtube are more of the camera's color then the LED lights.
> I miss gro lux purple lights myself. Can't find them..but mixed with other colors gave nice color and great growth out of the plants.


T5HO, the fixture specifically is a 8x54w Sfiligoi stealth, 4 inner bulbs for half the day and 4 outer bulbs the other half. They overlap for an hour or so in the middle.

I change the bulb combo every so often to try something different.


----------



## Hendy8888

Four weeks away from the tank gives me something to post about.


----------



## Greggz

LOL that's the very first time I wouldn't have recognized your tank at first glance!!

And it also demonstrates a great deal of potential for a more "Dutch" like presentation too!! I like the possibilities.


----------



## Hendy8888

Greggz said:


> LOL that's the very first time I wouldn't have recognized your tank at first glance!!
> 
> And it also demonstrates a great deal of potential for a more "Dutch" like presentation too!! I like the possibilities.


You never know...


----------



## Greggz

Now this I am looking forward to!!


----------



## Hendy8888

Well what a pain that was!
Plants sat in bags for a few days so still need to find the light but you get the idea.

Sorry @Greggz it's just another fruit stand lol. I have way too many species and started planting without a plan. Had to replant a couple areas once the ideas started flowing. Once that balsamica starts growing it's not going to fit anywhere..


----------



## gjcarew

So why'd you remove everything? Did you replace the substrate?


----------



## Hendy8888

gjcarew said:


> So why'd you remove everything? Did you replace the substrate?


That would have been a smart thing to do or at least add a fresh bag but I needed it for another tank. Really the only reason everything came out is because almost every species needed thinned out and replanted. Just happened I did it all at once and put it back in differently.


----------



## Hendy8888

Just a photo update. 

Ludwigia inclinata 'cuba' 

Rotala macrandra 'caterpillar'

Ludwigia palustris


----------



## Greggz

Nice plant porn! 

Well done!


----------



## Plinkploop

Thank you for the eye candy!! (Aka plant porn)


----------



## Hendy8888

A couple more just for fun.

H. Balsamica, what a drastic leaf change going from emersed to submerged.


2 x plant of the week winner L. Inclinata 'cuba' under the afternoon lights.


I should also note that the pinholes and general "induced potassium deficiency" has been corrected. I saw it first in the pinnatifida, then S. Repens, and even the A.R. mini. I am always very hesitant to correlate the results to any one change because I don't test/monitor such things but the changes I did make were reduction of micros and reduction of Mg. Micros were reduced for a short time only and are back to what 'normal' would be for this tank. Mg has been kept at the lower rate and continues to slightly fall. Now at 4.42ppm in water change water and 0.24ppm dosed per day, probably close to a 5:1 ca:mg ratio. 

With the impromptu re-scape the GDA took advantage a bit and bloomed but it got me thinking why doesn't algae grow on the aqua soil? Lava rocks on the surface of the soil will grow GDA very well yet nothing on any of the soil itself. All opinions welcomed.


----------



## n70me

Hendy8888 said:


> A couple more just for fun.
> 
> H. Balsamica, what a drastic leaf change going from emersed to submerged.
> 
> 
> 2 x plant of the week winner L. Inclinata 'cuba' under the afternoon lights.
> 
> 
> I should also note that the pinholes and general "induced potassium deficiency" has been corrected. I saw it first in the pinnatifida, then S. Repens, and even the A.R. mini. I am always very hesitant to correlate the results to any one change because I don't test/monitor such things but the changes I did make were reduction of micros and reduction of Mg. Micros were reduced for a short time only and are back to what 'normal' would be for this tank. Mg has been kept at the lower rate and continues to slightly fall. Now at 4.42ppm in water change water and 0.24ppm dosed per day, probably close to a 5:1 ca:mg ratio.
> 
> With the impromptu re-scape the GDA took advantage a bit and bloomed but it got me thinking why doesn't algae grow on the aqua soil? Lava rocks on the surface of the soil will grow GDA very well yet nothing on any of the soil itself. All opinions welcomed.


@
*Hendy8888*
love the colors of your plants always, can you please post your full Ca and Mg including the tap levels.
Also weekly , macros N,P,K
and Micros(Fe+ Trace).

thanks,


----------



## Hendy8888

n70me said:


> @
> *Hendy8888*
> love the colors of your plants always, can you please post your full Ca and Mg including the tap levels.
> Also weekly , macros N,P,K
> and Micros(Fe+ Trace).
> 
> thanks,


Currently
Water change water RO with added:
Ca 22.5 ppm
Mg 4.4 ppm
K 8.36 ppm
0.6 KH

Daily dosing:
Macro (Masterline Makro clone)
NO3 1.2 ppm
PO4 0.2 ppm
K 1.6 ppm
Mg 0.24 ppm

Micros
Cl 0.2 ppm
Ca 0.116 ppm
Fe 0.045 ppm
Mn 0.0137 ppm
Zn 0.0077 ppm
B 0.0091 ppm
Cu 0.0008 ppm
Mo 0.0005 ppm
Ni 0.0009 ppm


----------



## n70me

Hendy8888 said:


> Currently
> Water change water RO with added:
> Ca 22.5 ppm
> Mg 4.4 ppm
> K 8.36 ppm
> 0.6 KH
> 
> Daily dosing:
> Macro (Masterline Makro clone)
> NO3 1.2 ppm
> PO4 0.2 ppm
> K 1.6 ppm
> Mg 0.24 ppm
> 
> Micros
> Cl 0.2 ppm
> Ca 0.116 ppm
> Fe 0.045 ppm
> Mn 0.0137 ppm
> Zn 0.0077 ppm
> B 0.0091 ppm
> Cu 0.0008 ppm
> Mo 0.0005 ppm
> Ni 0.0009 ppm


Thanks for your response.
One doubt are the above Micros Fe 0.045 + other traces dosed daily ,7 times a week?


----------



## Hendy8888

n70me said:


> Thanks for your response.
> One doubt are the above Micros Fe 0.045 + other traces dosed daily ,7 times a week?


Yes, both macro and micros are dosed daily. I'm away from the tank on an irregular schedule and it just works better for me.


----------



## Greggz

So how are you liking the Masterline clone??? I was near those numbers for a while but had to boost it up.


----------



## Hendy8888

Greggz said:


> So how are you liking the Masterline clone??? I was near those numbers for a while but had to boost it up.


No complaints really, didn't find a huge change in plant growth. They have always gotten a little bit of everything. I've had huge plant mass and no issues at these levels. I'm confident I could dose these numbers even with my very old soil. Growth is by no means fast but everything looks fairly good except for the glandulosa, I basically torture it in this tank.

Nitrates are pretty much set @ 1.2 ppm / day and that's the sweet spot for growth for myself. I may bump up the po4 next and leave K the same to see if anything happens. I'm not expecting anything really but mise well see. 

If I really wanted better growth I would just replace the soil.


----------



## Greggz

I am curious. It looks like things are always pretty tightly mowed. How tall do you let your stems get to (there is a reason why I am asking)??


----------



## Hendy8888

Greggz said:


> I am curious. It looks like things are always pretty tightly mowed. How tall do you let your stems get to (there is a reason why I am asking)??


Really whatever fits the "scape" I guess. 
With this layout the background plants were a real pain in the butt to keep tall enough but not too tall.

I don't trim every week like I think you do (what needs trimmed). The result is a very dense plant mass that blocked the flow. With tall stems you really need to be diligent about trimming them or they get a bit out of hand.

I also realized how much I like seeing the black background contrast with the plants. 

My tank is somewhat nutrient limited I think, it slows growth and allows me to use stems and keep them closer to the front.

I have way too many species and everything ends up being crowded, keeping them short helps with the flow.

Tossing old bad growth when I do uproot, being nutrient limited means old leafs are at risk of algae or falling off all together. Some of the plants form a sort of canopy where everything underneath don't get enough light/nutrients. When I replant the nice tops there short. Now combine with the slow growth and repeat.

I have to say you do an excellent job of continually thinning and keeping the tops of your plants. I do not! lol As you know it's ALOT of work with this many species.

I plan to raise Po4 to see if it unlocks other nutrients, then I plan to do the same with K. More to see if I can learn something than anything else.

I don't even know if I answered your question...


----------



## Greggz

Hendy8888 said:


> Tossing old bad growth when I do uproot, being nutrient limited means old leafs are at risk of algae or falling off all together. Some of the plants form a sort of canopy where everything underneath don't get enough light/nutrients. When I replant the nice tops there short. Now combine with the slow growth and repeat.


This is exactly why I asked. Many of my stems get quite tall (over 2 feet). When my nitrates are limited in that range (8 ppm weekly) the lower portions get weak and are subject to algae. It's very predictable and repeatable.

Bump it up it to 13 ppm or so, and things change quickly. Plants perk up and better health throughout the entire plant, top to bottom. 

I guess the point is that there is no one size fits all dosing. Put your plants in my tank and let them grow tall and I am guessing they need more nutrients.

And FWIW I've never seen any negative effect from bumping up PO4.


----------



## Hendy8888

@Greggz I do use nitrates to limit growth for sure. I test on average 10-20ppm in the water column and the H'ra is always orange. Not sure I want faster growth but could be neat to test out your theory.


----------



## n70me

Greggz said:


> range (8 ppm weekly) the lower portions get weak and are subject to algae. It's very predictable and repeatable.





Hendy8888 said:


> Currently
> Water change water RO with added:
> Ca 22.5 ppm
> Mg 4.4 ppm
> K 8.36 ppm
> 0.6 KH
> 
> Daily dosing:
> Macro (Masterline Makro clone)
> NO3 1.2 ppm
> PO4 0.2 ppm
> K 1.6 ppm
> Mg 0.24 ppm
> 
> Micros
> Cl 0.2 ppm
> Ca 0.116 ppm
> Fe 0.045 ppm
> Mn 0.0137 ppm
> Zn 0.0077 ppm
> B 0.0091 ppm
> Cu 0.0008 ppm
> Mo 0.0005 ppm
> Ni 0.0009 ppm


@Hendy8888 
few more questions:
What are your par levels? Co2 drop? weekly water change%?


----------



## MiamiArt

Hendy8888 said:


> Currently
> Water change water RO with added:
> Ca 22.5 ppm
> Mg 4.4 ppm
> K 8.36 ppm
> 0.6 KH
> 
> Daily dosing:
> Macro (Masterline Makro clone)
> NO3 1.2 ppm
> PO4 0.2 ppm
> K 1.6 ppm
> Mg 0.24 ppm
> 
> Micros
> Cl 0.2 ppm
> Ca 0.116 ppm
> Fe 0.045 ppm
> Mn 0.0137 ppm
> Zn 0.0077 ppm
> B 0.0091 ppm
> Cu 0.0008 ppm
> Mo 0.0005 ppm
> Ni 0.0009 ppm


Hey thanks, Hendy. This is helpful. I do have a couple of questions though.

I see calcium listed in your micros. I'm assuming that's a typo but thought I would ask.

Also, I see you run a KH of .6 ppm. What's your thinking here? At that level, why not just leave it at zero?

Thanks!


----------



## Hendy8888

n70me said:


> @Hendy8888
> few more questions:
> What are your par levels? Co2 drop? weekly water change%?


I have never measured PAR and pick bulbs 90% on visual look and maybe 10% on strength of the bulb. The light is on hangers so can easily raise and lower it.

Co2 drop is probably 1.4 ish recently I calibrated my ph probe and it was way off so now I am dialing in the co2 again. It's almost more stable not to calibrate the thing unless you calibrate often.

Water change is about 55% per week, recently it went to 2x per week as I was trying to clean the tank up a bit. I'm pretty much back to 1x per week now.



MiamiArt said:


> Hey thanks, Hendy. This is helpful. I do have a couple of questions though.
> 
> I see calcium listed in your micros. I'm assuming that's a typo but thought I would ask.
> 
> Also, I see you run a KH of .6 ppm. What's your thinking here? At that level, why not just leave it at zero?
> 
> Thanks!


No typo, I use calcium chloride for the Cl- and the Ca comes along for the ride.

As for the KH....it's scary to use 0 KH with how fast I inject co2 (with a controller). At this point in time the only real reasons would be the extra K it gives and if the shrimp need it? People like Greggz have demonstrated you don't need KH even when using ph probes to control co2. I probably don't need it but will at least use up what potassium bicarbonate I have and even then I'll have to add K anyways.


----------



## MiamiArt

Hendy8888 said:


> No typo, I use calcium chloride for the Cl- and the Ca comes along for the ride.
> 
> As for the KH....it's scary to use 0 KH with how fast I inject co2 (with a controller). At this point in time the only real reasons would be the extra K it gives and if the shrimp need it? People like Greggz have demonstrated you don't need KH even when using ph probes to control co2. I probably don't need it but will at least use up what potassium bicarbonate I have and even then I'll have to add K anyways.


Got it.

I run with zero KH and inject CO2 via probe although it's there mostly to give me an approx pH drop figure. I typically go from 6.15 to 5 pH consistently. Will be adding some Amano's now and will see how that goes.

Thanks!


----------



## Greggz

Hendy8888 said:


> As for the KH....it's scary to use 0 KH with how fast I inject co2 (with a controller). At this point in time the only real reasons would be the extra K it gives and if the shrimp need it? People like Greggz have demonstrated you don't need KH even when using ph probes to control co2. I probably don't need it but will at least use up what potassium bicarbonate I have and even then I'll have to add K anyways.


No reason to be scared.

Here's the thing. The little bit of CO3 you are adding is likely being gobbled up by the substrate anyway. And much to my surprise, my pH is very stable and predictable at zero dKH. I have left several cups of tank water out for a week or more, then tested it daily. When it's fully degassed it's amazing how stable it is.


----------



## Hendy8888

MiamiArt said:


> Got it.
> 
> I run with zero KH and inject CO2 via probe although it's there mostly to give me an approx pH drop figure. I typically go from 6.15 to 5 pH consistently. Will be adding some Amano's now and will see how that goes.
> 
> Thanks!


Thank you for the questions, it made me go back and see at what rate I am injecting the co2. For some reason and I've even had people question it I thought it was 1.5 SCFH when it's actually 0.15 SCFH which is a more realistic 70 cc/min. I 100% rely on the reefkeeper lite to maintain ph throughout the cycle at that rate. I have fail safes in place and it takes about 10-15 minutes to get to the target ph.

As for shrimp, the fire reds breed just fine but they stay a bit smaller. Amanos seem good, they molt and some get eggs, they like to jump out from time to time.



Greggz said:


> No reason to be scared.
> 
> Here's the thing. The little bit of CO3 you are adding is likely being gobbled up by the substrate anyway. And much to my surprise, my pH is very stable and predictable at zero dKH. I have left several cups of tank water out for a week or more, then tested it daily. When it's fully degassed it's amazing how stable it is.


I will have to check again but this tank has always tested a tiny bit of KH, it surprised me a bit when the soil was newer. I'm not really worried about 0kh, 0.5kh isn't really anything at all and as you pointed out, new aquasoil consumes it which means quite a few people around the world run 0kh at some point anyways.

I need to educate myself on how ph probes actually work to make any sort of argument for having CO3 at all.

What NO3 does your tank usually test at?


----------



## Greggz

Hendy8888 said:


> I need to educate myself on how ph probes actually work to make any sort of argument for having CO3 at all.
> 
> What NO3 does your tank usually test at?


I can tell you my degassed pure RO tests at right about 6.25 at all times. It's very consistent.

As to NO3, it's almost always at 20 to 25 ppm. And that could be any day of the week. 

You might find this interesting. My TDS is almost exactly the same right before and right after a water change (140 ppm). I mean it's really uncanny. The water coming in is front end loaded with all macros.


----------



## Hendy8888

Greggz said:


> I can tell you my degassed pure RO tests at right about 6.25 at all times. It's very consistent.
> 
> As to NO3, it's almost always at 20 to 25 ppm. And that could be any day of the week.
> 
> You might find this interesting. My TDS is almost exactly the same right before and right after a water change (140 ppm). I mean it's really uncanny. The water coming in is front end loaded with all macros.


You baby those plants too much!!

I believe your tds especially with your weekly routine, it's fairly predictable even with my irregular schedule. You need to give up the brand of that NO3 test that's giving you 5ppm accuracy though. [emoji6] 

I'm going to add a little NO3 with water changes for a bit, at least the GDA will like it.


----------



## Greggz

Hendy8888 said:


> You baby those plants too much!!
> 
> I believe your tds especially with your weekly routine, it's fairly predictable even with my irregular schedule. You need to give up the brand of that NO3 test that's giving you 5ppm accuracy though. [emoji6]
> 
> I'm going to add a little NO3 with water changes for a bit, at least the GDA will like it.


I use the Salifert kit and find it to be very reliable and consistent. 

Now can I really tell with certainty if it's 20 or 25 ppm? No. But after using it for years and also testing reference samples, I feel pretty confident in what I am seeing.


----------



## MiamiArt

So you bring up an interesting point, I think. I own a couple of test kits but I don’t test at all. I use RODI and use the calculators to tell me what, more or less, is in the tank.

I see both of you seem to test. May I ask what you test for and how you’re using that knowledge?

Thanks!


----------



## Greggz

MiamiArt said:


> So you bring up an interesting point, I think. I own a couple of test kits but I don’t test at all. I use RODI and use the calculators to tell me what, more or less, is in the tank.
> 
> I see both of you seem to test. May I ask what you test for and how you’re using that knowledge?
> 
> Thanks!


I test NO3, PO4, and dGH every so often just to confirm that what I expect to happen is actually happening. I have zero dKH so don't check it any longer. 

If a test comes back and something is out of whack, then I need to put my detective hat on and figure out why.

Same testing for TDS. Not so much the absolute value but the relative value I am interested in. If it's out my normal range then something is going on.

And of course inquiring minds just want to know!


----------



## Hendy8888

MiamiArt said:


> So you bring up an interesting point, I think. I own a couple of test kits but I don’t test at all. I use RODI and use the calculators to tell me what, more or less, is in the tank.
> 
> I see both of you seem to test. May I ask what you test for and how you’re using that knowledge?
> 
> Thanks!


Mainly NO3 and PO4 to confirm what I already thought. If the tank goes off a bit I'll confirm N03 once and a while. PO4 is more for my education to see how the soil uptakes it or before changing fertilizer levels to confirm what the tank sits at.

I test PH too when dialing in co2 and ammonia when cycling. I have a very old API master kit that's almost used up, I'm sure I won't replace it immediately. 

NO3 tests in our range are very broad and as Greggz alluded to we both do what you currently do. If you dose 10ppm/week with 50%ish water change a clean tank will sit around 20ppm, orange for API and pink for Salifert.


----------



## MiamiArt

Thanks to you both. That's what I suspected and it's understandable. In my case, if I've been consistent with my maintenance, testing has created doubts where there should not be any. Usually, it turns out to be my error in taking the test or the kit is off. So, I stopped doing them and rely on observations of the plants, algae status and math. Of course, I've made my share of math mistakes that have wreaked a little bit of havoc.

That being said, I am considering a TDS meter for telling me how quickly the tank is creating dissolved organics and whether my water change schedule/amount is on point. It can also serve as an early warning signal that something is off. For example, recently I've been dealing with a few unexpected Otto deaths that quickly began to affect the organics. I have a small tank so things change quickly and I caught it by noticing a sudden increase in GDA. I think a daily TDS reading would have given me a sign a few days earlier.

Anyway, sorry to take the discussion off your tank, Hendy8888!


----------



## Greggz

MiamiArt said:


> In my case, if I've been consistent with my maintenance, testing has created doubts where there should not be any. Usually, it turns out to be my error in taking the test or the kit is off. So, I stopped doing them and rely on observations of the plants, algae status and math. Of course, I've made my share of math mistakes that have wreaked a little bit of havoc.


If something seems way off, it's always best to make a reference solution just to be sure. For NO3, I have found the Salifert kit to be rock solid, while the API can be WAY off sometimes. For PO4 I use the API but I keep a reference solution to check it every so often.


----------



## Hendy8888

MiamiArt said:


> For example, recently I've been dealing with a few unexpected Otto deaths that quickly began to affect the organics.
> 
> Anyway, sorry to take the discussion off your tank, Hendy8888!


All questions and comments are always welcomed, feel free to post anything you want.

I had a similar situation with otto's that were doing well, I suspect that my carbon block needed replaced and chlorine may have been sneaking through the RO membrane. I don't age my water long enough to off gas chlorine that often. No proof but just a thought.


----------



## MiamiArt

Hendy8888 said:


> I had a similar situation with otto's that were doing well, I suspect that my carbon block needed replaced and chlorine may have been sneaking through the RO membrane. I don't age my water long enough to off gas chlorine that often. No proof but just a thought.


That’s a thought. I have heavy chloramines in my water down here and it’s tough to get rid of. I use the BRS double carbon block method in my RODI. Will check to see if any are getting through. Thanks for sharing the possibility.


----------



## MoreliaViridis

Oh my...


----------



## Hendy8888

Day 5 of the GDA battle, plants are growing well enough to defend themselves. I've been dedicating 5-10 minutes every day to wipe down all the surfaces, letting the micron filter pads/socks to catch the spores. Pretty much the exact opposite of what the internet says to do.


----------



## Greggz

Hendy8888 said:


> Day 5 of the GDA battle, plants are growing well enough to defend themselves. I've been dedicating 5-10 minutes every day to wipe down all the surfaces, letting the micron filter pads/socks to catch the spores. Pretty much the exact opposite of what the internet says to do.


GDA battle? What is going on? Any idea what set it off?


----------



## Hendy8888

Greggz said:


> GDA battle? What is going on? Any idea what set it off?


This tank has had it on and off for a while, I suspect ammonia triggered it from osmocote balls/ unnoticed dead fish / shrimp die off's that I didn't deal with quickly enough. It peaked mid April when I was too busy to maintain the tank and all the flow got stuck behind the wall of plants.


Then I tore it all up and disturbed the substrate quite a bit so that didn't help. I've just decided to take the time and try to deal with it this week. GDA is a real pain as anyone who has had it knows...I'm extremely curious as to why it doesn't grow on aquasoil.

I've also increased co2/ nutrients in order to speed the plants up a bit which should help them fend off the spores.


----------



## xrayguy

wow, I didn't think it was possible. It's like 2 different tanks. Hopefully you get it under control soon.


----------



## Hendy8888

xrayguy said:


> wow, I didn't think it was possible. It's like 2 different tanks. Hopefully you get it under control soon.


It was at a weekly glass cleaning stage before I started the full out assault, not horrible but left unchecked it's always lurking in the background waiting for the next opportunity.


----------



## MoreliaViridis

Hendy8888 said:


> Pretty much the exact opposite of what the internet says to do.


Never found this to work


----------



## Hendy8888

MoreliaViridis said:


> Never found this to work


The leaving it alone or the daily cleaning?


----------



## MoreliaViridis

Hendy8888 said:


> The leaving it alone or the daily cleaning?


leaving it alone then scraping it off


----------



## Hendy8888

MoreliaViridis said:


> leaving it alone then scraping it off


Same, it always came back and you didn't even get to enjoy your tank.


----------



## MiamiArt

Hendy8888 said:


> Same, it always came back and you didn't even get to enjoy your tank.


Same here. 

I prefer less gadgets then more but have thought about using a UV filter while scraping. Have you considered this? I’ve used a UV filter with green water before and it worked extremely quickly. Figure a UV plus your micron socks would be a great combination for floating spores.


----------



## Hendy8888

MiamiArt said:


> Same here.
> 
> I prefer less gadgets then more but have thought about using a UV filter while scraping. Have you considered this? I’ve used a UV filter with green water before and it worked extremely quickly. Figure a UV plus your micron socks would be a great combination for floating spores.


When I built the sump I did consider it and there's a spot on the manifold for one. I think the cheap UV I had blew a ballast and I didn't replace it. It would definitely help but UV's are a bit high maintenance with bulb and ballast replacements. I'm sure a quality unit would give a better experience but then the price goes way up.

I'm thinking of getting some very small micron pads or socks to see how much they flow if I ever get around to it. Once washed they loosen up anyways.


----------



## Hendy8888

Rotala macrandra varegated peaking up behind the L. Inclinata 'cuba'


----------



## Greggz

This is interesting. Your Rotala Macranda Variegated has a much more round leaf shape than mine.

Not the greatest picture of mine but the only one I had from above where you can see the difference. The leaves are mine are much more narrow and elongated. 

Different species or different environment?


----------



## Hendy8888

Greggz said:


> This is interesting. Your Rotala Macranda Variegated has a much more round leaf shape than mine.
> 
> Not the greatest picture of mine but the only one I had from above where you can see the difference. The leaves are mine are much more narrow and elongated.
> 
> Different species or different environment?
> 
> View attachment 1030117


I haven't worked with this species enough but it's definitely environmental. Here it is not too long ago with a more similar shape to yours and others I've seen. Just yesterday I noticed the very round flat leaves and took a picture.


Currently, the shape is more similar to the macrandra caterpillar's growth that I get.


----------



## Notg2009

Greggz said:


> This is interesting. Your Rotala Macranda Variegated has a much more round leaf shape than mine.
> 
> Not the greatest picture of mine but the only one I had from above where you can see the difference. The leaves are mine are much more narrow and elongated.
> 
> Different species or different environment?
> 
> View attachment 1030117


I dose very lean in my tank compared to you (as evident by my ugly pantanals) with a ~6 month old platinum aquasoil+stuff underneath. My macrandra leaves are more elongated, away and close to the light. I remember someone was selling some on the auction page and those had round leaves too. Another mystery to solve here?!

Omid


----------



## Greggz

Hendy8888 said:


> I haven't worked with this species enough but it's definitely environmental. Here it is not too long ago with a more similar shape to yours and others I've seen. Just yesterday I noticed the very round flat leaves and took a picture.


Now that is very interesting. 

That is a pronounced change in shape. Wish I knew what it meant.


----------



## Hendy8888

Notg2009 said:


> I dose very lean in my tank compared to you (as evident by my ugly pantanals) with a ~6 month old platinum aquasoil+stuff underneath. My macrandra leaves are more elongated, away and close to the light. I remember someone was selling some on the auction page and those had round leaves too. Another mystery to solve here?!
> 
> Omid


Your plants look good and the macrandra varegated is the shape I'm used to seeing it.
I've grown some pitiful pantanal before, eventually I killed these ones that were dwarf. 



Greggz said:


> Now that is very interesting.
> 
> That is a pronounced change in shape. Wish I knew what it meant.


Agreed, I'll keep you updated if/when it changes back. 

Another plant that is behaving different is my lone Ludwigia white. I thought it reverted back to inclinata cuba for a few days then went again back to inclinata white. After asking Chantz about it he pointed out that it didn't look like it reverted but was sending out varegated leaves which he has seen in his emersed plants as well (after all it's a varegated species). It is back to the normal inclinata white growth as of now. Here's a photo from a couple weeks ago, it's in rough shape as it's still getting used to submerged life.


----------



## n70me

Hendy8888 said:


> Rotala macrandra varegated peaking up behind the L. Inclinata 'cuba'


Is there a picture here, iam unable to see it.
I can't see the picture of cuba and others posted in previous page too.


----------



## Hendy8888

n70me said:


> Is there a picture here, iam unable to see it.
> I can't see the picture of cuba and others posted in previous page too.


There is on my end, anyone else having problems seeing the pictures?


----------



## Hendy8888

@n70me 
Test picture of some proserpinaca palustris.


----------



## gjcarew

I can see all the pictures. Good looking mermaid weed btw, it looked nothing like that in my tank.


----------



## Notg2009

Hendy8888 said:


> @n70me
> Test picture of some proserpinaca palustris.


Is the shape affected by high vs low light?


----------



## Hendy8888

Notg2009 said:


> Is the shape affected by high vs low light?


Most likely, young stems have a thinner leaf with a more pronounced serration. As the plant matures the leaf fills in a lot. It's a slow one to propagate but once the stem is established it's a medium grower. Lower light will give a more green plant with orange tips.


----------



## Econde

No problems viewing your images here.


----------



## n70me

Hendy8888 said:


> @n70me
> Test picture of some proserpinaca palustris.


Iam able to see the picture posted by *Notg2009, *Gregg. But not yours.Badly missing proserpinaca here.


----------



## burr740

Can see all the pics. That is some nice looking mermaid weed! Mine wants to lean every which way.


----------



## Hendy8888

n70me said:


> Iam able to see the picture posted by *Notg2009, *Gregg. But not yours.Badly missing proserpinaca here.


Not sure why but seems the pictures are working for everyone except you. Maybe a different browser?


burr740 said:


> Can see all the pics. That is some nice looking mermaid weed! Mine wants to lean every which way.


Can't say I've had them lean at all, no one likes a leaning plant.


----------



## n70me

Hendy8888 said:


> Not sure why but seems the pictures are working for everyone except you. Maybe a different browser? Can't say I've had them lean at all, no one likes a leaning plant.


now i can see from same browser, dont know what has changed


----------



## Econde

n70me said:


> now i can see from same browser, dont know what has changed


I've noticed, at least from my experience, is that desktop viewing vs mobile phone viewing is quite different. I'm not sure if that was the case with yours.


----------



## Econde

Hendy8888 said:


> Not sure why but seems the pictures are working for everyone except you. Maybe a different browser? Can't say I've had them lean at all, no one likes a leaning plant.


Your's has exceptional color. Mine is also a leaner. Probably has to do with the depth of my tank being shallow and my spray bar.


----------



## Hendy8888

Quick update:

Got some 1 micron filter socks, doubtful it's that small but it looks even clearer (might be all in my head).

Nesaea pedicellata 'golden', hard to come across in Canada anymore it seems. I tried to convert some before with no luck, these look promising so far.

Recent information from Mr. Masterline came to light that his tanks get up to 5x daily dosing levels on big water change days. Combined with Greggz increased nitrate recommendation a few posts back I have been adding about 3x daily macro dosing after water changes. Still using the masterline clone for macros. Easy enough to run the auto doser on manual mode to achieve this and works with my schedule.

'Sunrise' as the bulbs warm up.


Tank has been on 0 KH for a month or so now, fish and shrimp are acting normal. I was adding so little it really didn't matter, to supplement K it gets a bit of K2SO4.


----------



## xrayguy

man alive you made that come back to life in a hurry. Tank looks amazing man.


----------



## Hendy8888

xrayguy said:


> man alive you made that come back to life in a hurry. Tank looks amazing man.


Thanks Richard, slow and steady. Keeping up with trimmings is my achilles heel, trying to do better.


----------



## Notg2009

@Hendy8888 Beautiful plants and amazing scape skills! Make me want to take my tanks to the dump and pick up another hobby!!

I tried finding your ferts amounts and routine through the thread but couldn't. Do u mind sharing it here? Thanks.

Omid

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Hendy8888

Notg2009 said:


> @Hendy8888 Beautiful plants and amazing scape skills! Make me want to take my tanks to the dump and pick up another hobby!!
> 
> I tried finding your ferts amounts and routine through the thread but couldn't. Do u mind sharing it here? Thanks.
> 
> Omid
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


Thanks Omid! I think your doing pretty darn good with your tank too!

Here is my latest dosing:

Water change water RO with added:
Ca 22.5 ppm
Mg 4.4 ppm
K 5 ppm
0.0 KH

Daily dosing:
Macro (Masterline Makro clone)
NO3 1.2 ppm
PO4 0.2 ppm
K 1.6 ppm
Mg 0.24 ppm

Micros
Cl 0.2 ppm
Ca 0.116 ppm
Fe 0.045 ppm
Mn 0.0137 ppm
Zn 0.0077 ppm
B 0.0091 ppm
Cu 0.0008 ppm
Mo 0.0005 ppm
Ni 0.0009 ppm

After a water change I'm adding approximately:
NO3 3.6 ppm
PO4 0.6 ppm
K 4.8 ppm
Mg 0.72 ppm

About 60% water change 1 or 2x per week (depends on my schedule). Trying not to go more than 1 week.

I run filter socks/pads, wet/dry filter, submerged matrix, and a purigen reactor.


----------



## Greggz

Hendy8888 said:


> Recent information from Mr. Masterline came to light that his tanks get up to 5x daily dosing levels on big water change days.


So that info from Marian caught your eye too! I found it very, very interesting as well. It is something that has been discussed over the years. You perform a large water change, you remove a bunch of ferts, should you replace them? Apparently the Master does. Good enough for me!

And good to see your dosing. You know how I am about these things. I keep tabs on the dosing of all of my favorite tanks, and this is definitely one of them. So here's the way I recorded it in your file. Figuring you dose 6 times a week then the larger dose after the water change.

NO3 6 x 1.2 = 7.2 + 3.6 = 10.8 ppm total
PO4 6 x 0.2 = 1.2 + 0.6 = 1.8 ppm total
K 6 x 1.6 = 9.6 + 4.8 + 5 ppm from RO = 19.4 ppm total
Ca = 22.5 ppm total
Mg 6 x 0.24 = 1.44 + 4.4 ppm from RO = 5.84 ppm total

Funny thing is that it's very close to my current dosing, other than I am dosing about twice as much PO4. I need to keep the Pantanl and Furcata happy.

I need to look over the micros in more detail but again looks very similar, just a bit lower than mine.

And I have to add the tank is looking absolutely spectacular. Might be the best ever. Health and colors are stunning.

Very well done as always.


----------



## Notg2009

Greggz said:


> So here's the way I recorded it in your file.


Big brother watching 




Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Hendy8888

Greggz said:


> So that info from Mariain caught your eye too! I found it very, very interesting as well. It is something that has been discussed over the years. You perform a large water change, you remove a bunch of ferts, should you replace them? Apparently the Master does. Good enough for me!
> 
> And good to see your dosing. You know how I am about these things. I keep tabs on the dosing of all of my favorite tanks, and this is definitely one of them. So here's the way I recorded it in your file. Figuring you dose 6 times a week then the larger dose after the water change.
> 
> NO3 6 x 1.2 = 7.2 + 3.6 = 10.8 ppm total
> PO4 6 x 0.2 = 1.2 + 0.6 = 1.8 ppm total
> K 6 x 1.6 = 9.6 + 4.8 + 5 ppm from RO = 19.4 ppm total
> Ca = 22.5 ppm total
> Mg 6 x 0.24 = 1.44 + 4.4 ppm from RO = 5.84 ppm total
> 
> Funny thing is that it's very close to my current dosing, other than I am dosing about twice as much PO4. I need to keep the Pantanl and Furcata happy.
> 
> I need to look over the micros in more detail but again looks very similar, just a bit lower than mine.
> 
> And I have to add the tank is looking absolutely spectacular. Might be the best ever. Health and colors are stunning.
> 
> Very well done as always.


Thanks Gregg! That little nugget of info Marian gave is a drastic change in his dosing. If I'm testing out his Makro (clone) I might as well dose similar to some of his tanks. My dosing numbers are pretty fluid due to my non scheduled water changes though. The auto doser chugs along every day doing the same thing so on water change day it depends if I do the maintenance before or after the doser goes off. Not a big deal, and my experience has been the plants don't care.

As for PO4...If you remember I used to add quite a lot especially with newer soil. The Tropica soil seemed to absorb anything I threw in so finally I quit fighting it when the pantanal died off. Can't say I noticed any big changes and the substrate had lots at that point. Masterline does seem a bit low on PO4 to what I would normally add but honestly everything is doing pretty good. I swear if I threw in 15ppm PO4 right now the old soil would just gobble it up anyways. 

I have to say I've been keeping the tops on more species when I trim, it's helping keep plant mass more stable and better looking. Almost everything is growing extremely well and still slow enough which is my goal. I have yet to figure out rotala tulunadensis...it grows and branches but it also melts and rots everything except the very tops of the plant. Stubborn species in this tank as well as L. Glandulosa which is hidden in the back left corner, both grow but not in fine form like a lot of the others.


Notg2009 said:


> Big brother watching
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


Now I know where to go when I can't figure out what the heck I'm dosing!


----------



## n70me

Hendy8888 said:


> Thanks Omid! I think your doing pretty darn good with your tank too!
> 
> Here is my latest dosing:
> 
> Water change water RO with added:
> Ca 22.5 ppm
> Mg 4.4 ppm
> K 5 ppm
> 0.0 KH
> 
> Daily dosing:
> Macro (Masterline Makro clone)
> NO3 1.2 ppm
> PO4 0.2 ppm
> K 1.6 ppm
> Mg 0.24 ppm
> 
> Micros
> Cl 0.2 ppm
> Ca 0.116 ppm
> Fe 0.045 ppm
> Mn 0.0137 ppm
> Zn 0.0077 ppm
> B 0.0091 ppm
> Cu 0.0008 ppm
> Mo 0.0005 ppm
> Ni 0.0009 ppm
> 
> After a water change I'm adding approximately:
> NO3 3.6 ppm
> PO4 0.6 ppm
> K 4.8 ppm
> Mg 0.72 ppm
> 
> About 60% water change 1 or 2x per week (depends on my schedule). Trying not to go more than 1 week.
> 
> I run filter socks/pads, wet/dry filter, submerged matrix, and a purigen reactor.


Nice tank. Thanks for sharing the numbers.
few questions:
-Your micro's ratio is this also a masterline clone?
-Are these micro's chelated or non chelated like Gregg's?
- I remember you use osmocote , how often do you place them, during weekly water changes or after?
-Roughly how much of leeching from osmocote gets added to your weekly totals ?


----------



## Hendy8888

n70me said:


> Nice tank. Thanks for sharing the numbers.
> few questions:
> -Your micro's ratio is this also a masterline clone?
> -Are these micro's chelated or non chelated like Gregg's?
> - I remember you use osmocote , how often do you place them, during weekly water changes or after?
> -Roughly how much of leeching from osmocote gets added to your weekly totals ?


Micros are NOT Masterline clone, probably one of Burr's old recipe. I'm not certain if I ever made any changes except adding chloride.

Micros are non chelated except Fe which is DTPA.

Osmocote plus has been used sparingly maybe 3 times per year. Were talking 1 granular per square inch over maybe a quarter of the tank total. I don't account for it at all in my dosing, not sure that would be possible.


----------



## Greggz

Notg2009 said:


> Big brother watching
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


LOL yes I am watching. 

One of the things I learned early on is that the best path to success is to study the methods of those who demonstrate success. So I still keep a close eye on tanks I admire and am learning something new all the time.


----------



## burr740

Tank looks great man!


----------



## Hendy8888

burr740 said:


> Tank looks great man!


Thanks Joe, sorry to read about your busted seam, I can only imagine. Looks to be back on track though now.


----------



## MiamiArt

So what's the thinking behind adding Mg daily versus front loading?


----------



## Hendy8888

MiamiArt said:


> So what's the thinking behind adding Mg daily versus front loading?


I bottle some of my fertilizers for the locals and most don't run RO. They get a bit of Mg in the macros since our tap is heavy Ca. I just prefer to make 1 batch up.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Man, even after trials and tribulations this tank is truly stunning.

I've loved following along all these years.


----------



## Hendy8888

somewhatshocked said:


> Man, even after trials and tribulations this tank is truly stunning.
> 
> I've loved following along all these years.


Thanks! I'm happy to bring everyone along for the journey, it's been fun. I think journals are one of my favorite resources to get some insight how others setup and run their tanks.


----------



## Ventchur

somewhatshocked said:


> Man, even after trials and tribulations this tank is truly stunning.
> 
> I've loved following along all these years.


^ What he said! ^

Any chance of posting some video?


----------



## Hendy8888

Been a while....almost all the plants are growing well. All 50 that is...I partially blame you @Greggz. Off the top of my head only the Nesaea Pedicellata golden has currently got it's stunt on. R. Tulunadensis is even growing better than it's average for this tank (minus the bottoms). It's becoming increasingly difficult to manage any type of "scape" with so many species. Eventually I will have to move some out but for now they stay.




I forgot to mention #51 GDA.


----------



## Hendy8888

Don't want to leave everyone hanging like that... Here is what the tank actually looks like with the glass clean. I've deliberately chosen to live with the GDA (short term) since the plants are growing well. Disrupting the algae will also disrupt the plants unfortunately and there are species currently still acclimating to their environment.

Shows a good example of GDA only attached to glass and healthy plants fending it off.

Not a great example of plant management but most are looking good.

ADA Rotala sp. 'Vietnam', looks like walichii to me but this is a picky one. It's either happy or stunt, does not like to be topped. 

Ludwigia inclinata 'meta', much easier in this tank than pantanal.

Bucephalandra brownie upper ghost, zero GDA. It has a natural green sheen that does look like dust algae at a certain angle.

If anyone knows this Buce ID, please post it up. It's a large leaf variety and has a dramatic colour shift with light angle.


----------



## Greggz

Hey Chris nice update. Good to see a few of our plant exchange doing well. The Ludwigia inclinata 'meta' looks good in there!

And it was a pleasure to spend some time talking planted tanks with you. You are a wealth of knowledge, and I very much enjoyed our conversation. Let's face it, not many people have a clue as to what we do, so when you get to spend some time with someone who speaks the same language it's a rare treat.

I just sent you a PM noting how some of the plants you gave me are doing. Like you, I have WAY too many species. I guess that's what happens when you have lots of friends in the hobby. Seems like every time I get a package there are many "extras" in there. I've just been plopping them down somewhere. Problem is when they start propagating I am going to have to pare it down. Some how. Some way.

Well I keep telling myself that anyways!😆


----------



## Hendy8888

Greggz said:


> Hey Chris nice update. Good to see a few of our plant exchange doing well. The Ludwigia inclinata 'meta' looks good in there!
> 
> And it was a pleasure to spend some time talking planted tanks with you. You are a wealth of knowledge, and I very much enjoyed our conversation. Let's face it, not many people have a clue as to what we do, so when you get to spend some time with someone who speaks the same language it's a rare treat.
> 
> I just sent you a PM noting how some of the plants you gave me are doing. Like you, I have WAY too many species. I guess that's what happens when you have lots of friends in the hobby. Seems like every time I get a package there are many "extras" in there. I've just been plopping them down somewhere. Problem is when they start propagating I am going to have to pare it down. Some how. Some way.
> 
> Well I keep telling myself that anyways!


Pleasure was all mine, I thoroughly enjoy talking shop and catching up when I'm in town. You are right we don't get to do it too often with other hobbyists.

The inclinata meta is a nice change from the cranky pantanal. Not that I ever got it to grow well but the meta seems to want to throw off shoots much more like cuba does. Do you have any comparison pics with both in your tank?


----------



## Greggz

Hendy8888 said:


> Pleasure was all mine, I thoroughly enjoy talking shop and catching up when I'm in town. You are right we don't get to do it too often with other hobbyists.
> 
> The inclinata meta is a nice change from the cranky pantanal. Not that I ever got it to grow well but the meta seems to want to throw off shoots much more like cuba does. Do you have any comparison pics with both in your tank?


I have them growing side by side. Will get a pic sometime this week. 

Basic difference for me is that Sp. Meta is more red. Leaves turn more upward not downward. A bit more full larger top.

Other than that, both are complete weeds.


----------



## somewhatshocked

Dunno what y'all are thinking. Acting like you have too many plants. Pbbbbbt.

Who needs free time anyway?

Just start a couple new tanks!


----------



## Greggz

somewhatshocked said:


> Dunno what y'all are thinking. Acting like you have too many plants. Pbbbbbt.
> 
> Who needs free time anyway?
> 
> Just start a couple new tanks!


LOL......Trust me there IS a point when one has too many plants. I think both Chris and I are actually past that limit at the moment. But yeah, in the scheme of things I guess it is a good problem to have.


----------



## Greggz

Chris here is the Rotala Vietnam. Like I said, it pearls like mad. This is not water change bubbles.

I'll try topping it soon and see how it does. If I can get a nice patch growing it's going to get a permanent spot.


----------



## burr740

Tank looks great Chris, stunning as usual. The Buce might be a skeleton king, there's a couple varieties.

Stop showing off Gregg...

😅


----------



## Greggz

Hendy8888 said:


> The inclinata meta is a nice change from the cranky pantanal. Not that I ever got it to grow well but the meta seems to want to throw off shoots much more like cuba does. Do you have any comparison pics with both in your tank?


Chris here is a comparison shot. And it illustrates something about the more forgiving nature of the "Meta". While doing a water change I unplug my CO2 so that the gas does not build up in the reactor. The last water change I forgot to plug it back in and CO2 was off for three days.

The "Meta" are the three more red ones in this pic. They never skipped a beat. The regular Pantanal faired OK but the tops kind off shrunk up and color got a little paler than the usual deeper orange. 

I'm propagating more and will likely replace all the Pantanal over time........or who knows, maybe keep two separate patches?? We'll see.


----------



## vraev

As always…one of the best planted tanks for the past few years. Your tank and plants are always amazing Chris. Thanks for sharing and tbh… appreciate that you continue to share and post progress.  . I wish I could grow the plants half as well as you do.


----------



## xrayguy

we all wish we could grow plants like hendy and gregz


----------



## cool81

this aquarium is really an example for me. very nice


----------



## Notg2009

Greggz said:


> Chris here is a comparison shot. And it illustrates something about the more forgiving nature of the "Meta". While doing a water change I unplug my CO2 so that the gas does not build up in the reactor. The last water change I forgot to plug it back in and CO2 was off for three days.
> 
> The "Meta" are the three more red ones in this pic. They never skipped a beat. The regular Pantanal faired OK but the tops kind off shrunk up and color got a little paler than the usual deeper orange.
> 
> I'm propagating more and will likely replace all the Pantanal over time........or who knows, maybe keep two separate patches?? We'll see.
> View attachment 1032959


Recently got my hands on some meta but the stems didn't like shipping and were spongy and soft on arrival. Had to trim short and remove dead leaves. Is meta hardy and able to bounce back in general?
Thanks

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Greggz

Notg2009 said:


> Recently got my hands on some meta but the stems didn't like shipping and were spongy and soft on arrival. Had to trim short and remove dead leaves. Is meta hardy and able to bounce back in general?
> Thanks
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


More so than Pantanal that is for sure. But spongy and soft is usually not good. 

I'd plant it and just leave it alone. I have been pretty amazed at how some plants recover, but it can take a good deal of time. 

Good luck I hope it works out.


----------



## Hendy8888

somewhatshocked said:


> Dunno what y'all are thinking. Acting like you have too many plants. Pbbbbbt.
> 
> Who needs free time anyway?
> 
> Just start a couple new tanks!


I have a problem with getting rid of species, I find something I like about every plant it seems. I did start up a little 3ft so hopefully some can go in there.



Greggz said:


> Chris here is the Rotala Vietnam. Like I said, it pearls like mad. This is not water change bubbles.
> 
> I'll try topping it soon and see how it does. If I can get a nice patch growing it's going to get a permanent spot.
> 
> View attachment 1032898


It has never pearled like that for me, honestly nothing ever pearls excessively in the 90 gallon. Hopefully it does well for you, I find it likes to be crowded and left alone to grow tall.



burr740 said:


> Tank looks great Chris, stunning as usual. The Buce might be a skeleton king, there's a couple varieties.
> 
> Stop showing off Gregg...


Thanks Joe! I'm not convinced on the skeleton king but I have no evidence to support my cause lol. It very well could be a variety that I haven't seen. Someone commented Buce melon on the video and I thought I saw a Buce silk that looked identical but google didn't come up with enough to convince me yet.



vraev said:


> As always…one of the best planted tanks for the past few years. Your tank and plants are always amazing Chris. Thanks for sharing and tbh… appreciate that you continue to share and post progress.  . I wish I could grow the plants half as well as you do.


Thanks! Sometimes I feel like it's the same pictures but time flys between posts it seems. As I remember you can grow plants just fine! I do wish I had more time and space to try different growing methods though, thinking of changing my nano tank over to a hard tap water tank.




xrayguy said:


> we all wish we could grow plants like hendy and gregz


Be careful what you wish for, just like turf grass the more it grows the more it needs maintained. Lol I still owe you some plants I think. 



cool81 said:


> this aquarium is really an example for me. very nice


Thank you!


----------



## Hendy8888

Plant of the week is Myriophyllum roraima I got from Gregg. It sure is a fast grower but very behaved and look at that colour.

Speaking of colour, I went to 4hrs x 8bulbs last week and lost quite a bit of colour on most of the orange plants (Cuba, meta, h'ra, mac caterpillar, and this Proserpinaca palustris).



The tank is overgrown and needs a big uproot and plant. Lot's of dropping leaves due to shading going on but most everything is growing well. The past couple months I've noticed damage leaves due to livestock. Normally it's amano's eating the Alternanthera now that it's growing well or a couple other species. This time it looks like the green neons decided to snack on my 6 months of painfully slow growing ramosior. Notice the leaf tip damage, I have directly witnessed them eating the Limnophila aromatica mini the same way.


----------



## KrangDog

Hendy8888 said:


> I went to 4hrs x 8bulbs last week


What were you at previously?


----------



## Hendy8888

KrangDog said:


> What were you at previously?


7hrs x 4 bulbs, 1hr x 8 bulbs. I've run the 4hrs x 8 bulbs before and speed of growth is similar, some plants will get whitish new growth since I don't change the nutrients and the light isn't acclimated. I suspect I'm seeing a mild case of this with the orange plants currently and the syngonanthus is showing it too. Even the aromatica mini is lightening up a bit.


----------



## Greggz

Hendy8888 said:


> Plant of the week is Myriophyllum roraima I got from Gregg. It sure is a fast grower but very behaved and look at that colour.


Good to see the Roraima looking so good in your tank. You do bring out great color in most everything.

Why dialing down to 4 hours of light? Will be interesting to see what happens next.


----------



## Hendy8888

I'm hesitant to change the lights as growth has been so good lately but the GDA needs to be disrupted. This is my first step, I wasn't home to manually pester it this week but I still had less GDA. If I turned the lights way down (non co2 levels) it would go away but the plants would suffer too.

My 8 gallon had GDA too and the co2 reg got stuck right before a trip so as a last second solution I just turned the light off for the week and no dosing. I didn't have time to deal with the co2 once I got home so I turned the light back on as low as it would go (the room has tons of ambient light). Basically just turned the tank into a low tech and the GDA went away, so did the HC carpet..lol


----------



## KrangDog

Hendy8888 said:


> I'm hesitant to change the lights as growth has been so good lately but the GDA needs to be disrupted.


Where are you noticing the GDA? Just the glass?

I had an issue with it that I failed to solve for quite some months. I'd clear it off with a dish sponge at each water change but found it returned after a few days. It was always affected the same areas of glass. So, during one water change, I soaked a bit of paper towel in H2O2 and gave the glass a good wipe down and left it to sit for 15 minutes. Haven't seen much of it since. My theory is that the dish sponge was wiping away the visible bits, but leaving traces behind that would regrow easily. I suspect the H2O2 on the glass killed it off more thoroughly.


----------



## Hendy8888

KrangDog said:


> Where are you noticing the GDA? Just the glass?
> 
> I had an issue with it that I failed to solve for quite some months. I'd clear it off with a dish sponge at each water change but found it returned after a few days. It was always affected the same areas of glass. So, during one water change, I soaked a bit of paper towel in H2O2 and gave the glass a good wipe down and left it to sit for 15 minutes. Haven't seen much of it since. My theory is that the dish sponge was wiping away the visible bits, but leaving traces behind that would regrow easily. I suspect the H2O2 on the glass killed it off more thoroughly.


Glass and overflow, plants are growing well so it doesn't stick to them and aquasoil for some reason unknown to me doesn't either.

Problem with GDA is if you can't empty the entire tank of water and then remove it you will always create free flowing algae in the water column once you wipe it off. Less is better but it will quickly multiply and reattach to surfaces and repeat the cycle. Cleaning the glass with hydrogen peroxide doesn't really help since it's all free flowing and re-attaches after you fill the tank up again. I still use the hydrogen peroxide to help kill any residual after I clean it but in reality there's not much there. 

Light is the largest factor I believe. I don't buy into the North American high NO3 causes GDA theory..yes if you run zero NO3 and just feed via roots (ADA) it will be a non issue obviously. I don't run high levels of NO3 (or low levels) and I can grow GDA pretty good, just like all the other plants in the tank. Also some say add more plants to out compete the algae...well this tank can't hold any more plant mass and that's a bunch of wishful thinking. It's like saying add more plants so the stubborn moss clippings stuck everywhere will die....the moss doesn't care.

My plan is to disrupt it with limiting the light period. I may have to decrease the intensity too but am trying to keep the plants happy for now. At the same time remove what I can at water change time, increase the water changes and wipe down the tank 2-3 times per day in order to keep it free flowing and use micron filter socks to hopefully catch the free flowing algae. The only catch is I have to be home in order to execute my plan, something that's not going to be the case for a while unfortunately.


----------



## Immortal1

Hendy8888 said:


> Glass and overflow, plants are growing well so it doesn't stick to them and aquasoil for some reason unknown to me doesn't either.
> 
> Problem with GDA is if you can't empty the entire tank of water and then remove it you will always create free flowing algae in the water column once you wipe it off. Less is better but it will quickly multiply and reattach to surfaces and repeat the cycle. Cleaning the glass with hydrogen peroxide doesn't really help since it's all free flowing and re-attaches after you fill the tank up again. I still use the hydrogen peroxide to help kill any residual after I clean it but in reality there's not much there.
> 
> Light is the largest factor I believe. I don't buy into the North American high NO3 causes GDA theory..yes if you run zero NO3 and just feed via roots (ADA) it will be a non issue obviously. I don't run high levels of NO3 (or low levels) and I can grow GDA pretty good, just like all the other plants in the tank. Also some say add more plants to out compete the algae...well this tank can't hold any more plant mass and that's a bunch of wishful thinking. It's like saying add more plants so the stubborn moss clippings stuck everywhere will die....the moss doesn't care.
> 
> My plan is to disrupt it with limiting the light period. I may have to decrease the intensity too but am trying to keep the plants happy for now. At the same time remove what I can at water change time, increase the water changes and wipe down the tank 2-3 times per day in order to keep it free flowing and use micron filter socks to hopefully catch the free flowing algae. The only catch is I have to be home in order to execute my plan, something that's not going to be the case for a while unfortunately.


Curious, seeing as I have been in the GDA boat for way longer than I care to admit, I wonder how the tank (plants & algae) would react to a little stronger lighting for less time? I know Jeffkrol has stated light energy is light energy - lot of light for a short time is treated the same as less light for a longer time. Just not sure if that works in the real world. Thoughts?


----------



## Greggz

Thi


Hendy8888 said:


> Glass and overflow, plants are growing well so it doesn't stick to them and aquasoil for some reason unknown to me doesn't either.
> 
> Problem with GDA is if you can't empty the entire tank of water and then remove it you will always create free flowing algae in the water column once you wipe it off. Less is better but it will quickly multiply and reattach to surfaces and repeat the cycle. Cleaning the glass with hydrogen peroxide doesn't really help since it's all free flowing and re-attaches after you fill the tank up again. I still use the hydrogen peroxide to help kill any residual after I clean it but in reality there's not much there.
> 
> Light is the largest factor I believe. I don't buy into the North American high NO3 causes GDA theory..yes if you run zero NO3 and just feed via roots (ADA) it will be a non issue obviously. I don't run high levels of NO3 (or low levels) and I can grow GDA pretty good, just like all the other plants in the tank. Also some say add more plants to out compete the algae...well this tank can't hold any more plant mass and that's a bunch of wishful thinking. It's like saying add more plants so the stubborn moss clippings stuck everywhere will die....the moss doesn't care.
> 
> My plan is to disrupt it with limiting the light period. I may have to decrease the intensity too but am trying to keep the plants happy for now. At the same time remove what I can at water change time, increase the water changes and wipe down the tank 2-3 times per day in order to keep it free flowing and use micron filter socks to hopefully catch the free flowing algae. The only catch is I have to be home in order to execute my plan, something that's not going to be the case for a while unfortunately.


This is interesting. For me GDA comes and goes. Honestly I have never really figured out what triggers it or how to avoid it. It's never enough that it is a serious nuisance, but something I sure would like to eliminate entirely.

You know Dennis says it's an EI thing, but like you I am dosing far less than EI levels. So I would not call either of our tanks "hot" in that regard. But we both do have relatively high lighting.

If it's the free flowing algae that keeps coming back, it would seem a UV sterilizer or something like Purigen would help. I've never seen any noticable effect from either. 

Since we met I've been very slow lowering dosing. Down to NO3 : PO4 : K at 6:3:15. Pretty much APT complete numbers. So far so good. But no change on GDA. For me it's usually a once a week wipe down of glass when I am doing a water change.

Good topic for conversation. Maybe @burr740 will drop in and share his thoughts.


----------



## Hendy8888

Immortal1 said:


> Curious, seeing as I have been in the GDA boat for way longer than I care to admit, I wonder how the tank (plants & algae) would react to a little stronger lighting for less time? I know Jeffkrol has stated light energy is light energy - lot of light for a short time is treated the same as less light for a longer time. Just not sure if that works in the real world. Thoughts?


To some extent yes, there will be different growth that needs to be taken into account. I would generally say some species will have larger leaves with half intensity for double the duration and smaller leaves with double the intensity and half the duration. From my experience the growth rate is similar as long as the light needs of the plant is met. 

As for GDA I don't know of a cure that can be repeatable unfortunately. If your plants can handle low light then you can go the minimum light route which worked on my 8 gal. 



Greggz said:


> Thi
> 
> This is interesting. For me GDA comes and goes. Honestly I have never really figured out what triggers it or how to avoid it. It's never enough that it is a serious nuisance, but something I sure would like to eliminate entirely.
> 
> You know Dennis says it's an EI thing, but like you I am dosing far less than EI levels. So I would not call either of our tanks "hot" in that regard. But we both do have relatively high lighting.
> 
> If it's the free flowing algae that keeps coming back, it would seem a UV sterilizer or something like Purigen would help. I've never seen any noticable effect from either.
> 
> Since we met I've been very slow lowering dosing. Down to NO3 : PO4 : K at 6:3:15. Pretty much APT complete numbers. So far so good. But no change on GDA. For me it's usually a once a week wipe down of glass when I am doing a water change.
> 
> Good topic for conversation. Maybe @burr740 will drop in and share his thoughts.


I have a hard time pinpointing a cause of a lot of things in a planted tank, there are just so many variables, most of which we don't monitor. Like most problems I would lean towards ammonia in the water column to trigger the algae and then it grows in similar conditions to plants so it's hard to cure.

I have seen Dennis bring up the high NO3 argument more than once and now that all 3 of us are admitting to having GDA maybe he's on to something!!  Anyone dosing with a NO3 limiting tank really should never get long term GDA so I can see where he's coming from in that regard.

Purigen won't help I don't think and UV filtration will kill some but will only capture a fraction free floating before it re-attaches to the in-tank surfaces. UV flow rates have to be very slow to kill using hobby grade units.

That's interesting on the dosing, I'm not surprised you haven't noticed much. The way your tank is set up you have a wide dosing tolerance, your soil is a buffer and the plants will most likely have reserves since they are so babied. Lol

On another note here is what Amano shrimp damage looks like to otherwise healthy Alternanthera.


----------



## Hendy8888




----------



## Greggz

I love posts like this! 

Roraima looks great and so does the R. Vietnam lurking back there.


----------



## xrayguy

i want plants like that!!!


----------



## Hendy8888

Last trim was a big thinning out and ran out of time to do the whole tank so not really scaped. I think I removed 3 species (it's a start).

It's begun, L. Rugosa's new growth is getting small, narrow, and clear from the light change, just like last time. It's hard to see but it's definitely going to do it.

Rather slow growing Ludwigia sp. white that I got emersed 6 months ago now.

The unidentified Buce got my attention today, maybe a plant of the week.

Hygrophila 'dagger' from Greggz, this tank is incapable of growing these large leaf hygros green I think. No matter what, the 'compact' gets bronze too. This is slightly exaggerated due to the red bulbs but still.


----------



## gjcarew

That buce is gorgeous! I haven't grown any in a high tech tank for a while and I think it's well past time to get another group going. The big mystery one looks like maybe "Dark Skeleton King" or something similar. And the smaller one is BG 2011, right?


----------



## Hendy8888

gjcarew said:


> That buce is gorgeous! I haven't grown any in a high tech tank for a while and I think it's well past time to get another group going. The big mystery one looks like maybe "Dark Skeleton King" or something similar. And the smaller one is BG 2011, right?


I wasn't sure if I liked this large leaf one but it's surprised me. It definitely has the largest colour shift of the three I keep. You have a good eye, there is a couple BG2011 mixed in with the large patch of brownie upper ghost.


----------



## burr740

Hey Chris, how did you do the black background on your tank? I like how it stops below the top and edges. Is it a rubber stick on something or what exactly? Im doing a 75p and need to do something more elegant than paint



Greggz said:


> This is interesting. For me GDA comes and goes. Honestly I have never really figured out what triggers it or how to avoid it. It's never enough that it is a serious nuisance, but something I sure would like to eliminate entirely.
> 
> You know Dennis says it's an EI thing, but like you I am dosing far less than EI levels. So I would not call either of our tanks "hot" in that regard. But we both do have relatively high lighting.
> 
> If it's the free flowing algae that keeps coming back, it would seem a UV sterilizer or something like Purigen would help. I've never seen any noticable effect from either.
> 
> Since we met I've been very slow lowering dosing. Down to NO3 : PO4 : K at 6:3:15. Pretty much APT complete numbers. So far so good. But no change on GDA. For me it's usually a once a week wipe down of glass when I am doing a water change.
> 
> Good topic for conversation. Maybe @burr740 will drop in and share his thoughts.


Wow you keep going lower and lower! What does that equal with my 100% WCs? Like 9/5/25?

I dont have a magic solution to gda. In my tanks, when everything is good there is none, Literally none. I can go a month w/o wiping the glass. But when something gets a little off, and you can usually tell because the first thing that happens is the water looses a little bit of clarity, if something gets off I'll start seeing gda on the glass. That something could be anything. CO2 runs out for more than a day or two. Plants unhappy for whatever reason. Big swing in nutrient levels.

Light...only if the level outruns the plants ability to use it and grow happily. I really dont think light alone will do it, jmo. That doesnt mean reducing light for a time wont kill it, I think your plan is a good one (Hendy). But imo its not the root cause.

As for being nutrient related, it just about has to be especially since the Asian crowd typically doesnt see it in their lean water columns. That evidence is too strong to ignore. But I dont believe there's a particular cause like just high NO3.

One time I brought it on by adding a big dose of extra K. In just a day or two a thick build up started on the glass. I never knew if it was the sudden change or the high level itself. It was a one time pulse to try and cure something. Ive never seen that response from just bumping NO3, which Ive done a million times. But Im not about to say high K causes it, thats just what happened one time. Low K damn sure isnt good. After Vin and I spent a year and a half trying lower K at various levels, I feel like K is the LAST macro you want to try limiting

Personally I look at it like GSA or any other type of algae, when everything is good...its just not there. If you're seeing it then something somewhere is a little off. Doesnt mean its anything to worry about...


----------



## Hendy8888

burr740 said:


> Hey Chris, how did you do the black background on your tank? I like how it stops below the top and edges. Is it a rubber stick on something or what exactly? I just bought a 75p and need to do something more elegant than paint


Just some black vinyl, I think I used cheap Chinese car wrap vinyl but craft stores sell it too now. Apply it like window tint, wet the vinyl and glass and then squeegee out the bubbles. Once it dries then trim with a new razor blade. Mine covers the entire back piece of glass, the light traveling through the glass/silicone probably is what your seeing around the edges.


That's very interesting about the K, I don't get to test much having just a few tanks but certainly enjoy learning from yourself and Vin.


----------



## chayos00

Speaking of out of balance, I've settled on that something is way out of whack with my fertz. The hair algae all over agrees too. LOL 

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Greggz

burr740 said:


> Wow you keep going lower and lower! What does that equal with my 100% WCs? Like 9/5/25?


Yep and no disaster so far. But I've been doing it very, very slowly. 

I report my dosing at the equivalent EI at 50% water change. If you look at it as "target" dosing it's 12/6/30. So that would be the 100% water change equivalent. 

Are you really doing 100% water changes? And what is the macro dosing? I can calculate to compare to mine.


----------



## burr740

Greggz said:


> Yep and no disaster so far. But I've been doing it very, very slowly.
> 
> I report my dosing at the equivalent EI at 50% water change. If you look at it as "target" dosing it's 12/6/30. So that would be the 100% water change equivalent.
> 
> Are you really doing 100% water changes? And what is the macro dosing? I can calculate to compare to mine.


I didnt remember how much water you changed is why I asked. I go down to the last couple of inches just before breaking the siphon. Its more like a solid 90+ but I just consider it 100. 

Im dosing about 21/9/30 all at once after the WC. I went down from 24 NO3 a couple months ago, K was 27 and I bumped that to 30. But anywhere in that range is pretty good. May try 18 NO3 next batch and see what happens

Have you had any stems that typically lean straighten up with lower NO3?


----------



## Greggz

burr740 said:


> I didnt remember how much water you changed is why I asked. I go down to the last couple of inches just before breaking the siphon. Its more like a solid 90+ but I just consider it 100.
> 
> Im dosing about 21/9/30 all at once after the WC. I went down from 24 NO3 a couple months ago, K was 27 and I bumped that to 30. But anywhere in that range is pretty good. May try 18 NO3 next batch and see what happens
> 
> Have you had any stems that typically lean straighten up with lower NO3?


So at 90% it's a target dose of 23/10/33 vs. my 12/6/30. But keep in mind I do have pretty large fish load. 

And I can't say yet if I will keep mine that low, just experimenting to see happens.

Interesting question on the plants leaning. L. Cuba does seem better behaved and less wild under lower dosing. But really not enough to draw any conclusions.


----------



## n70me

Hendy8888 said:


> Thanks Omid! I think your doing pretty darn good with your tank too!
> 
> Here is my latest dosing:
> 
> Water change water RO with added:
> Ca 22.5 ppm
> Mg 4.4 ppm
> K 5 ppm
> 0.0 KH
> 
> Daily dosing:
> Macro (Masterline Makro clone)
> NO3 1.2 ppm
> PO4 0.2 ppm
> K 1.6 ppm
> Mg 0.24 ppm
> 
> Micros
> Cl 0.2 ppm
> Ca 0.116 ppm
> Fe 0.045 ppm
> Mn 0.0137 ppm
> Zn 0.0077 ppm
> B 0.0091 ppm
> Cu 0.0008 ppm
> Mo 0.0005 ppm
> Ni 0.0009 ppm
> 
> After a water change I'm adding approximately:
> NO3 3.6 ppm
> PO4 0.6 ppm
> K 4.8 ppm
> Mg 0.72 ppm
> 
> About 60% water change 1 or 2x per week (depends on my schedule). Trying not to go more than 1 week.
> 
> I run filter socks/pads, wet/dry filter, submerged matrix, and a purigen reactor.


Hi @Hendy8888

have a basic question on your dosing . The above mentioned Macro's and Micro are they dosed only to the newly added 60% water ? or to the entire 100% of tank water?

Same question about GH -When you say : "Water change water RO with added" - i assume Ca(22.5PPM),Mg(4.4PPM),K-5PPM are added only to the 60% of newly added water and not entire 100%?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Hendy8888

n70me said:


> Hi @Hendy8888
> 
> have a basic question on your dosing . The above mentioned Macro's and Micro are they dosed only to the newly added 60% water ? or to the entire 100% of tank water?
> 
> Same question about GH -When you say : "Water change water RO with added" - i assume Ca(22.5PPM),Mg(4.4PPM),K-5PPM are added only to the 60% of newly added water and not entire 100%?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Macros and micros are dosed daily into the aquarium 100%. I have been doing 3 extra macro doses into the tank after water changes lately as well.

The Ca and Mg get mixed into the water change water only before I do a water change 60%.

Example 20ppm Ca tank water gets removed for water change and 20ppm Ca new water gets added.


----------



## n70me

Hendy8888 said:


> Macros and micros are dosed daily into the aquarium 100%. I have been doing 3 extra macro doses into the tank after water changes lately as well.
> 
> The Ca and Mg get mixed into the water change water only before I do a water change 60%.
> 
> Example 20ppm Ca tank water gets removed for water change and 20ppm Ca new water gets added.


 Thanks @Hendy8888

Your proserpinaca palustris looks so amazing. Any tips to get it so large , mine always looks small with thinner leaves.


----------



## Hendy8888

n70me said:


> Thanks @Hendy8888
> 
> Your proserpinaca palustris looks so amazing. Any tips to get it so large , mine always looks small with thinner leaves.


Keep the tops when you trim, it always starts out with thin leaves and thickens up as it matures. It likes co2, when mine get crowded and taller plants block the flow they start to get thinner and loose a bit of colour so try to let it be the tallest group in the area. It hardly ever branches and is very slow to send out new shoots so takes a while to propagate. I would say it likes lots of light but recently with the 8 bulbs on for 4 hours it's not as happy (still darn good), maybe adjusting.


----------



## n70me

Hendy8888 said:


> Keep the tops when you trim, it always starts out with thin leaves and thickens up as it matures. It likes co2, when mine get crowded and taller plants block the flow they start to get thinner and loose a bit of colour so try to let it be the tallest group in the area. It hardly ever branches and is very slow to send out new shoots so takes a while to propagate. I would say it likes lots of light but recently with the 8 bulbs on for 4 hours it's not as happy (still darn good), maybe adjusting.


thanks Hendy. So does that mean your total lighting per day is only 4 hours?


----------



## Hendy8888

n70me said:


> thanks Hendy. So does that mean your total lighting per day is only 4 hours?


Currently yes, just to try and disrupt the GDA while I attack it. Usually the lights are on for 8 hours but mostly just 4 bulbs with an 8 bulb burst for an hour.


----------



## Hendy8888

October is always a busy month away from the tank, it didn't get neglected but got the bare minimum when it came to trimming. 

I was able to beat back the GDA quite considerably with the 4hrs of strong light, daily glass cleaning, and 1 micron filter socks. It's absolutely not a long term solution and I did go back to my normal light schedule before October. The plants grew just fine with the 8 bulbs for 4 hours but I lost some colour on most of the orange plants. With the return of my normal lighting the plants are definitely happier. Mermaid weed immediately coloured back up to a deep red/orange.

The GDA was also happier, I didn't clean the glass as much at all in October but while present the GDA wasn't nearly as bad as it had been. With that being said...I got 25 otos and now the GDA is food, their happy and I'm happy, lesson learned.

Hygrophila balsamica hasn't done much in this tank, not sure what soup it desires I set off to the interweb. I then came to a realization as to what may have killed off a good portion of the shrimp population. Apparently emersed hygrophila balsamica is poisonous to livestock. It coincides exactly with when the die off occured and it came out of no where. So this is a good reminder that while submerged growth is 100% safe, transitioning should be done without livestock. I got lucky and it only affected the shrimp and not the fish.

Next up is Ludwigia inclinata 'white', it gets confused as to what it wants to be sometimes. Here it's converted a few leaves to variegated then to cuba then back to white. Doesn't grow well for me but recently it's started to grow a bit quicker, can't grow straight to save it's life either.

Rotala macrandra variegated, almost killed it by crowding it in the back, moved it up front to try to save it and it's much happier.

Limnophila aromatica mini starting to turn whitish from the high light.

Myriophyllum roramia still putting on a show. It grows too quick and doesn't fit this tank so it's days might be numbered.


Acmella Repens, it grew smaller leaves with higher light. Here it's back to normal.

Before the latest trim, bunch of weeds.

After, still need to deal with over grown masses of buce and eriocaulon.

Plan going forward is to retire some under performers and plants that aren't going to work with my trimming technique that I'm going back to. I will lose the showy tops but hopefully gain a more scaped tank for a bit.


----------



## cbnlibra

nice setup


----------



## Hendy8888

A couple plants looking good this week.

Rotala macrandra variegated


Ludwigia inclinata cuba


----------



## rzn7z7

Hendy8888 said:


> A couple plants looking good this week.
> 
> Rotala macrandra variegated


My R Mac variegated looks nowhere near as healthy as that...clearly it likes your setup....congrats and good job!


----------



## Hendy8888

rzn7z7 said:


> My R Mac variegated looks nowhere near as healthy as that...clearly it likes your setup....congrats and good job!


Thanks, it's hard to believe last month it was just about dead. I had it in the back and was being very crowded. Salvaged a handful of tops and moved them out front to get some co2 and flow. Apparently they liked the move, definitely my favorite plant this week.


----------



## Hendy8888

Picture update:
WAY overgrown..starting to affect growth.

Trimmed a couple quick growers and the mac. Var.

Anyone else just keep pulling plants up?

Water change, still too many plants. A good look at the bulb split for half the day.

Not complete but the right side is thinned out at least.

Left side got jealous and took matters into it's own hands. That's a basket ball sized island of E. Lineare that I've been ignoring. Anyone that keeps eriocaulon knows they much prefer to float so it wasn't a quick fix.

After replanting but no water change since it was an unscheduled maintenance event.


Some plants need to recover a bit from not getting any flow. Removed a few more species, it's a work in progress right now.


----------



## Greggz

Did you remove the Myriophyllum Roraima? If so not surprised I couldn't believe you kept up with it so long. And still surprised the Meta hanging in there as it's another weed. 

I enjoyed seeing the before and after. Most don't realize the meticulous trimming/pruning that goes into your presentation.

And if that's a work in progress, I am really looking forward to seeing it when it's done!!


----------



## Hendy8888

Greggz said:


> Did you remove the Myriophyllum Roraima? If so not surprised I couldn't believe you kept up with it so long. And still surprised the Meta hanging in there as it's another weed.
> 
> I enjoyed seeing the before and after. Most don't realize the meticulous trimming/pruning that goes into your presentation.
> 
> And if that's a work in progress, I am really looking forward to seeing it when it's done!!


I did...just doesn't fit in anywhere due to it's growth rate, I have it in other tanks for now. I've also removed hygrophila dagger, rotala h'ra, A.R. mini, L. Glandulosa, H. Balsamica, C. Furcata, R. Macrandra.

I haven't found a home for the Meta up until this trim, it's a little upset from the plants getting over grown but should bounce back the quickest now that water is flowing again.

I don't know about meticulous, my plan was to go that direction but it seems I get busy, I let the tank grow to tall and eventually it's a rip out and re plant everything. 

100% it's work to keep it stable, you can only let the plants go so far before they require trimming. They compete with each other and stop the flow of water rich in co2/o2 and this leads to poor growth-decay-algae and it starts to snowball.

Last but not least it's never actually finished, I can't remember a time I've trimmed for a final look or picture with intent. I would love to but I'm not a selfish trimmer, something I need to work on hopefully in the future. Less species will certainly help in that regard.


----------



## Greggz

Hendy8888 said:


> Last but not least it's never actually finished, I can't remember a time I've trimmed for a final look or picture with intent. I would love to but I'm not a selfish trimmer, something I need to work on hopefully in the future. Less species will certainly help in that regard.


I get this and was actually thinking about it when I posted that.

I look back on pics of my tank and can always see the flaws. But I guess that is what keeps it interesting. Always striving to hit some eventual goal. Problem is that is always shifting.

In the meantime always love seeing your tank!!


----------



## SkaleyAquatics

I'm curious to how you planted the buce in this? Did you just stick the roots into the substrate leaving the rhizome exposed?


----------



## Hendy8888

SkaleyAquatics said:


> I'm curious to how you planted the buce in this? Did you just stick the roots into the substrate leaving the rhizome exposed?


It starts off as a piece attached to a small rock to weigh it down. I rest them on the substrate, nothing special. They root a bit on their own but eventually you get large mats of buce that are just hovering in place. The surrounding plants keep everything from moving well enough.


----------



## Hendy8888

Had the chance to trim the tank without doing a big uproot or water change. Still need to remove some species. Some are still recovering and others got freshly hacked into shape.

L. Inclinata 'meta' with a side of P. Palustris
 

Anyone with chronic GDA just do yourself a favor and get some otos. BN plecos work too especially young ones but I find adults move plants around. Did 2 tanks, same results. Cleaned the glass once after I added them and the GDA doesn't come back. @Immortal1


----------



## KrangDog

Hendy8888 said:


> Had the chance to trim the tank without doing a big uproot or water change.


What's the typical timeframe between big uproots for your tank?


----------



## Hendy8888

KrangDog said:


> What's the typical timeframe between big uproots for your tank?


Every plant seems to be different and how much attention the tank gets. For example the L. Palustris / R. H'ra / L. Arcuata on the right back went 8 weeks probably but I didn't keep up with the bush style trimming and eventually it needs uprooted. The mid-ground / foreground stems maybe 2-4 weeks depending on the species.

L. Inclinata cuba / meta / ramosior are weekly, just keep the tops and let side shoots naturally grow. The E. Lineare, R. Mex. Goias, Buce, C.Flamingo, hairgrass, all went or are currently going for probably 7 months. At that point they are overgrown but continue to grow on top of themselves. 

Getting everything to peak at the same time with multiple triming techniques is something special about those competition Dutch aquascapes we see. This tank still has too many species for me to really try and do that yet, maybe one day (Not Dutch just syncing the plants for a photo ).


----------



## Greggz

Hendy8888 said:


> Anyone with chronic GDA just do yourself a favor and get some otos. BN plecos work too especially young ones but I find adults move plants around. Did 2 tanks, same results. Cleaned the glass once after I added them and the GDA doesn't come back. @Immortal1


Interesting on the GDA and the cleaning crew. Do you think they also help with any algae on plants? Or mostly just the glass? How many Oto's do you have?


----------



## Quagulator

Assuming we get our oto's from roughly the same sources, how on earth do you keep them alive? I seem to go through a dozen per year...


----------



## Greggz

Quagulator said:


> Assuming we get our oto's from roughly the same sources, how on earth do you keep them alive? I seem to go through a dozen per year...


Same for me when I had them. That and once in a while a Bow would snack on one.


----------



## Quagulator

I'll buy an army of them, half will be gone the next morning, another quarter will last a few weeks, and the remaining 25% will last a year. I've done this several times with the same results.


----------



## Hendy8888

Greggz said:


> Interesting on the GDA and the cleaning crew. Do you think they also help with any algae on plants? Or mostly just the glass? How many Oto's do you have?


100% they help keep the plants clean same as the glass. A clean leaf can continue to grow and stay healthy vs abandoning growth once covered in bio film or algae. I think I put 20 in the 90gal, had 1 loss. Transfered 3 into the 8 gallon which did the trick.


Quagulator said:


> Assuming we get our oto's from roughly the same sources, how on earth do you keep them alive? I seem to go through a dozen per year...


This time I got them from Finatics in Toronto. They had them for a while and generally take better care of their stock then most LFS. Oto's need a constant food source so I suspect they get very malnourished through their long journey to our tanks from the wild. No one really takes the time to feed them at any point up to the LFS and even then some don't care. 

I've acclimated them and plop and drop, both times had zero or maybe 1 loss some time after. I stopped cleaning the glass to make sure they have some bio film, they actually need to start getting some veggies fed to them now to make sure they have a food source.

On my first batch of 25 they died 1 by 1 maybe a year after or so, I suspect the chlorine block had expired in the RO unit and some was getting through the membrane. I don't age my water a lot of times which would have prevented this.

If you can find tank bred I suspect you would have much less trouble.


----------



## Quagulator

Hendy8888 said:


> If you can find tank bred I suspect you would have much less trouble.


Thanks for sharing your experience. Good info. 

I've tried Angelfins, Shrimp Fever, Big Al's, Petsmart, Pet Paradise in London Bobby G's in London and all have perished despite the Ma and Pa stores looking like they keep good care of everything. 

I've been meaning to get to Finatics, I see him online quite often but I avoid the GTA for the most part. Work doesn't let me get out to see my customers that way as of lately so I don't travel around too much. That was half the fun traveling for work - hitting up new fish stores on the way home!


----------



## Hendy8888

A lot of time away from the tank recently but it's doing just fine. I bet you can't spot the plant that grows faster than the rest...


Some expected issues lately from reduced maintenance is bba on the Alternanthera and Buce. The syngonanthus meta is flowering, it's never been happy in this tank, I suspect it wants a bit more.

The P. Erectus is finally growing fat again instead of branching.

Pretty much everything is growing well when it's not shaded. The ramosior's still want a bit more calcium I believe.



The M. roramia found a new home in the 12" tall 8 gallon tank...


----------



## Greggz

I sure do enjoy seeing updates on your tank.

Looking fantastic as always. 

Still dosing the Masterline clone???


----------



## Hendy8888

Greggz said:


> I sure do enjoy seeing updates on your tank.
> 
> Looking fantastic as always.
> 
> Still dosing the Masterline clone???


Thanks Gregg, same with yours! 

Still the same fertilizers, I forget if I upped my macro dose or not. I know I went back to 0.4ppm/week Fe on the micros as I forgot I lowered them a bit. Some of the picky Ludwigia aren't being so picky so possibly running a bit higher. Plant mass is quite high though and I finally got a Salifert NO3 test which read 10ppm? Thought that was a bit low but my expired API could have been lying to me all these years.  I haven't investigated any further.


----------



## Bootsy

Those colors would make the Red Sea blush. Honestly, that’s breathtaking!


----------



## Hendy8888

Bootsy said:


> Those colors would make the Red Sea blush. Honestly, that’s breathtaking!


Why not some more.


----------



## ytz

😍
‏מדהים


----------



## rzn7z7

Great pics! What species of bucephalandra is that in the first one?


----------



## Hendy8888

rzn7z7 said:


> Great pics! What species of bucephalandra is that in the first one?


2011


----------



## rzn7z7

Don't you mean 🐻👻2011? I like plants that can be referred to as an emoji and year!


----------



## Hendy8888

rzn7z7 said:


> Don't you mean 2011? I like plants that can be referred to as an emoji and year!


Lol, that's the one.


----------



## Hendy8888

For those who use purigen or might want to try it, this is how I do it. I'm a bit lazy and this has become my procedure.

Having a sump I use a Two Little Fishies phosban 150 reactor to create a moving bed of purigen. Those little bags of purigen are horrible, there's no flow through the middle.
You need to add a piece of felt cut to the shape of the sponges that come with the reactor or else the purigen will get through.

I have two batches of purigen, one in use and one being recharged at all times. Every month they get swapped out.
Here is the old batch.

I use an old plastic container and add 50% water 50% cheap regular plain bleach. Maybe fill the container half way, I'm not measuring.

Mix and set aside up high where it won't get into any trouble, basement in my case.

The other recharged batch gets rinsed thoroughly 4,5,6 times until your happy. After a month sitting on the shelf the bleach has off gassed and just a rinse works. If you smell bleach use some dechlorinator, your nose can tell. This month I was a bit late changing it and didn't need any dechlorinator.

Hook it back up.

I've used the same two batches of purigen for over 3 years changing them monthly. I add bleach to regen and forget about it until the next month..no need to deal with the recommended regen procedure, this works well enough for me. 

Now for some pretty pictures...



Fat macrandra variegated.


Giant Pogo erectus (finally)


----------



## rzn7z7

I always have 2 bags of purigen in use with a third regenerating (bleach then prime then a couple of baths of RO water)...your point about the flow thru the bags is valid and your approach is an eye-opener....clearly your plants like what you're doing....great pics as always!


----------



## Greggz

Interesting you are using Purigen. I used to but haven't in years. Might have to give it a go again.

One thing to stress is the use of regular stock bleach. Folks should not use "Splashless" bleach. It has detergent and surfactants in it and can wreak some havoc on a tank.

I always look forward to more pics and as usual you didn't disappoint. That Macranda Variegated always catches my eye, as I have kept it for years and my leaf shape is much different than yours. Another mystery of the planted tank!!


----------



## Hendy8888

rzn7z7 said:


> I always have 2 bags of purigen in use with a third regenerating (bleach then prime then a couple of baths of RO water)...your point about the flow thru the bags is valid and your approach is an eye-opener....clearly your plants like what you're doing....great pics as always!


That's a good way to rotate them for even effectiveness. The 'bag' is too full so the media can't move and water doesn't flow through the center. A reactor is really only practical on a sump though.



Greggz said:


> Interesting you are using Purigen. I used to but haven't in years. Might have to give it a go again.
> 
> One thing to stress is the use of regular stock bleach. Folks should not use "Splashless" bleach. It has detergent and surfactants in it and can wreak some havoc on a tank.
> 
> I always look forward to more pics and as usual you didn't disappoint. That Macranda Variegated always catches my eye, as I have kept it for years and my leaf shape is much different than yours. Another mystery of the planted tank!!


Yes, definitely just regular bleach, don't use splashless for anything aquarium related.

As for Purigen, it's not required at all as you know, I use it as a bit of a buffer since I'm away from my tank quite a bit some months. I try to get weekly water changes in but sometimes it doesn't happen for 2-3 weeks. I also like crystal clear water and it's part of my approach along with filter socks.

I think the macrandra variegated is neat, I don't quite understand why the round leaf shape isn't as common. It's definitely environmental but lot's of people have similar conditions to mine I bet. Another one that does it is Pogostomon erectus, can grow completely different in 2 tanks with the same source water.
90 gal - Larger thinner more delicate leaves

50 gal - Smaller, thicker, more rigid leaves.


One thing to note, the mac variegated has round leaves in both tanks so not the same factor, at least not enough of it.


----------



## n70me

@Hendy8888 amazing pics and great plants as always.

What are your par levels at the substrate. Please share.


----------



## Hendy8888

n70me said:


> @Hendy8888 amazing pics and great plants as always.
> 
> What are your par levels at the substrate. Please share.


Good question, my PAR levels are a bit complicated since I have 2 lighting schedules. First 3.5 hrs is the middle 4 bulbs which gives about 170 at the bottom front (lots of reflection off the glass), 140 in the middle part of the tank, and 140 surface back of the tank. These locations represent where the plants generally live with a slope up towards the back of the tank.

Next there's a 1 hr burst of all 8 bulbs that give 270 bottom front, 290 mid tank, 200 top rear.

After that is 3.5 hrs of the outer 4 bulbs (big gap in the middle of the tank). This gives 170 bottom front, 140 mid tank, 150 top rear.

Things that have to be considered are the higher PAR bulbs at the front of the tank and lower PAR bulbs at the rear. Hence the 150 PAR directly under the red bulbs at the back and 170 PAR all the way at the substrate under the blue/3000k bulbs at the front. This combined with the big gap in the light fixture gives pretty consistent PAR across the levels that the plants will live at.

The size of the light fixture over the tank is almost an exact match. This gives a lot of light reflection with the outer bulbs, more so the front where plants/back background don't impede it. This greatly increases the PAR at the front substrate level.

All that considered it's a bit more PAR than I expected out of only 4 bulbs. The relatively shallow tank at 18" certainly plays a role I believe.


----------



## n70me

Hendy8888 said:


> Good question, my PAR levels are a bit complicated since I have 2 lighting schedules. First 3.5 hrs is the middle 4 bulbs which gives about 170 at the bottom front (lots of reflection off the glass), 140 in the middle part of the tank, and 140 surface back of the tank. These locations represent where the plants generally live with a slope up towards the back of the tank.
> 
> Next there's a 1 hr burst of all 8 bulbs that give 270 bottom front, 290 mid tank, 200 top rear.
> 
> After that is 3.5 hrs of the outer 4 bulbs (big gap in the middle of the tank). This gives 170 bottom front, 140 mid tank, 150 top rear.
> 
> Things that have to be considered are the higher PAR bulbs at the front of the tank and lower PAR bulbs at the rear. Hence the 150 PAR directly under the red bulbs at the back and 170 PAR all the way at the substrate under the blue/3000k bulbs at the front. This combined with the big gap in the light fixture gives pretty consistent PAR across the levels that the plants will live at.
> 
> The size of the light fixture over the tank is almost an exact match. This gives a lot of light reflection with the outer bulbs, more so the front where plants/back background don't impede it. This greatly increases the PAR at the front substrate level.
> 
> All that considered it's a bit more PAR than I expected out of only 4 bulbs. The relatively shallow tank at 18" certainly plays a role I believe.


Thanks


----------



## MoreliaViridis

Hendy8888 said:


>



The fat circular leaf shape of R. macrandra might be due to high B content.

I have been fiddling around with custom micros for more then a year now
And I've seen high B making leaves FAT and round multiple times.
I can replicate results easily. Some plants are better at producing wider leaves..one of them being macrandra.
Changes are surprisingly fast. Leaf shape changes within 1~2 weeks.










Rotala rotundifolia "Blood red"
Both cutting is grown in 0.025ppm B.
Right cutting has significantly more rounded and fat leaves compared to left one (which hasn't caught up on the news yet)
If I increase another 0.005ppm most stems in background will turn like right cutting.
Its about 3~4/10 now.









Rotala macrandra "Kalady" grown in 0.025 ppm B.
Its top leaves are circular like your variegated macs.
Compare with older leaves which is more ovate. Kalady does have more rounded leaves then most macs but not to this extent.

Fun fact) This variant is actually light green under normal N conditions. Just like green macs. But turns significantly red when N is limiting...hence smaller stature.


BTW I love your tank


----------



## n70me

MoreliaViridis said:


> The fat circular leaf shape of R. macrandra might be due to high B content.
> 
> I have been fiddling around with custom micros for more then a year now
> And I've seen high B making leaves FAT and round multiple times.
> I can replicate results easily. Some plants are better at producing wider leaves..one of them being macrandra.
> Changes are surprisingly fast. Leaf shape changes within 1~2 weeks.
> 
> 
> View attachment 1038682
> 
> Rotala rotundifolia "Blood red"
> Both cutting is grown in 0.025ppm B.
> Right cutting has significantly more rounded and fat leaves compared to left one (which hasn't caught up on the news yet)
> If I increase another 0.005ppm most stems in background will turn like right cutting.
> Its about 3~4/10 now.
> 
> View attachment 1038683
> 
> Rotala macrandra "Kalady" grown in 0.025 ppm B.
> Its top leaves are circular like your variegated macs.
> Compare with older leaves which is more ovate. Kalady does have more rounded leaves then most macs but not to this extent.
> 
> Fun fact) This variant is actually light green under normal N conditions. Just like green macs. But turns significantly red when N is limiting...hence smaller stature.
> 
> 
> BTW I love your tank


Hi, Interesting! Can you also post your numbers of Zn,Mn,Cu,Mo,Ni..etc.

But i guess @Hendy8888 Bo is 0.0091(correct?) which is lesser than yours but his macranda leaf is still round.

Thanks


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## vraev

Looking awesome as always Handy. What kind of ferts would you recommend for Bucephalandra ...especially if you want them to have nice compact colourful growth?


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## Hendy8888

MoreliaViridis said:


> The fat circular leaf shape of R. macrandra might be due to high B content.
> 
> I have been fiddling around with custom micros for more then a year now
> And I've seen high B making leaves FAT and round multiple times.
> I can replicate results easily. Some plants are better at producing wider leaves..one of them being macrandra.
> Changes are surprisingly fast. Leaf shape changes within 1~2 weeks.
> 
> 
> View attachment 1038682
> 
> Rotala rotundifolia "Blood red"
> Both cutting is grown in 0.025ppm B.
> Right cutting has significantly more rounded and fat leaves compared to left one (which hasn't caught up on the news yet)
> If I increase another 0.005ppm most stems in background will turn like right cutting.
> Its about 3~4/10 now.
> 
> View attachment 1038683
> 
> Rotala macrandra "Kalady" grown in 0.025 ppm B.
> Its top leaves are circular like your variegated macs.
> Compare with older leaves which is more ovate. Kalady does have more rounded leaves then most macs but not to this extent.
> 
> Fun fact) This variant is actually light green under normal N conditions. Just like green macs. But turns significantly red when N is limiting...hence smaller stature.
> 
> 
> BTW I love your tank





n70me said:


> Hi, Interesting! Can you also post your numbers of Zn,Mn,Cu,Mo,Ni..etc.
> 
> But i guess @Hendy8888 Bo is 0.0091(correct?) which is lesser than yours but his macranda leaf is still round.
> 
> Thanks


My B should be dosed around 0.0091ppm/ daily dose so 0.0637ppm/week. I know Gregg Zydeck doses 0.1ppm/week of B and his mac variegated have always been pointy.

Can't say I've seen any difference when I increase or decrease my water changes per week either, dosing always stays the same.

Very interesting you have seen direct results when playing with B, I remember a few years ago when some were trying to figure out the sweet spot.


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## Hendy8888

vraev said:


> Looking awesome as always Handy. What kind of ferts would you recommend for Bucephalandra ...especially if you want them to have nice compact colourful growth?


Thanks, same as every other plant. Not too much and not too little of a well rounded fertilizer. To get good colour on buce you want to use RGB LED / coloured T5 bulbs as they reflect so much light. Don't expect designer buce colours from most varieties.


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## MoreliaViridis

Hendy8888 said:


> My B should be dosed around 0.0091ppm/ daily dose so 0.0637ppm/week. I know Gregg Zydeck doses 0.1ppm/week of B and his mac variegated have always been pointy.
> 
> Can't say I've seen any difference when I increase or decrease my water changes per week either, dosing always stays the same.
> 
> Very interesting you have seen direct results when playing with B, I remember a few years ago when some were trying to figure out the sweet spot.


Sweet spot for me is somewhere between 0.02~0.025ppm/week. But then I reside at mere 0.2ppm/week Fe.

Most likely it will be all sorts of different things working at the same time...as usual.
It might be B itself, it might also be increased B influencing other stuffs and causing secondary effects, It might even be completly unrelated to B. Who knows.

My variegated macs are kinda in between at 0.025ppm/week B.
It is still pointy but fatter.
Hopefully I'll have some in future to share pics.
I just trimmed off all the way to bottom because I dosed 10x conc by mistake...oops.

Also I just got my hands on mac narrow leaf and P. palustris. Might be interesting with fat leaf testings..


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## MoreliaViridis

n70me said:


> Hi, Interesting! Can you also post your numbers of Zn,Mn,Cu,Mo,Ni..etc.
> 
> But i guess @Hendy8888 Bo is 0.0091(correct?) which is lesser than yours but his macranda leaf is still round.
> 
> Thanks


As Hendy8 pointed out, mine was per week. 
So he is adding quite a bit more then me..

Mix that yielded fat leaf:
0.1 Fe
0.025~0.035 Mn
0.025 B
0.025~0.035 Zn
0.001 Cu
0.001 Mo
(ppm/week. Everyday. 70% WC/week.)

I was mostly messing around with Mn and Zn so B was fixed.
Previous to that I decided to increase B because macs were showing B deficiency at 0.017ppm.
Since then leaves were pretty fat.
Then I tested a few times by going down to 0.02 and reverting back. It worked for most stems everytime. (Probably 8/10 stems)


For now I changed things up a bit:
0.2 Fe
0.03 Mn
0.022 B
0.022 Zn
0.001 Cu
0.001 Mo
(ppm/week. Everyday. 70% WC/week.)

Toninas and some others were not liking low Fe diet.

Some plants(Its dem lythranceae again...) showed gradually deminishing crown size that was unrelated to CO2 in previous mixes. (They were in best CO2 spot. 7~8bps with powerhead and decent atomizer. 1 pH drop in least flow area. Good surface agitation with no scums. Not crowded.) So I am testing for lower B and Zn. I think it is kinda helping..

Maybe I'll have to go back to 0.025 B or higher to get fatter leaves.
Whatever I literally have millennia worth of traces and its easy enough
Just need more time to test everything


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## AgMa

Hey @Hendy8888 any progress? I really like your journal. It's so inspiring...


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