# Getting Started: 75 Gallon Planning



## Kamivy (Jan 3, 2010)

skystrife said:


> The plastic plants of the past and the horrific blue gravel haunt me


Lol - many of us have the same sad history, don't worry!



skystrife said:


> I am a bit leery of buying a used tank, but if you think it is a good idea I will definitely begin searching in that direction.


I think it's definitely worth a look - I bought my 75 gallon used, and it has been great - many others on this forum have snapped up a second hand bargain too - Just check the tank out in person before committing, and if the tank is set up or full when you look at it, at least you know it'll have no leaks.



skystrife said:


> I want to grow fairly simple (from what I've read) plants such as assorted Anubias, Crypts, and Java Fern. However, since I've been gone, the old Watts per Gallon rule appears to be defunct. What would I need to get to keep me in the low-light spectrum, but _with the ability to upgrade in the future_? There's no sense in me buying a cheap fixture that I'll have to replace if I get comfortable with the idea of auto-dosing ferts and/or get a CO2 system. However, I'm also looking to minimize cost... yeah, I know, can't have both. So I'm looking for something somewhat middle ground that I can upgrade fairly easily. Maybe a 4x54 T5HO with only two bulbs running? What would you suggest?


All of those plants are good lowlight plants, for some suggestions on others to add, check out the sticky on low light plants at the top of the forum. Yes, T5 lighting has knocked the socks off the old watts per gallon rule as it is far more intense. If you are going low tech, with the plants you have listed you only need minimal lighting or you will run into algae issues - probably only 1 x 54 watt T5 HO tube would be sufficient, or 2 x T5 normal output tubes would be better - even light distribution is easier with multiple lower watt tubes compared to one high watt tube. However, someone else will probably be able to suggest something more appropriate than I.




skystrife said:


> I'm thinking Fluorish black sand, though it is somewhat expensive. What are others' experiences with it? Would you recommend it or would you suggest going with the Eco-Complete like in that thread?


Depends what your preference is, there are devotees of both on these forums. Eco-complete is good for strong rooted plants that take in their nutrients through the substrate like crypts or swords, as it contains a lot of nutrients. fluorite doesn't have the nutrient value of eco-complete, however it is still good, and a couple of root tabs under the crypts and swords will accomplish the same goal. Stem plants, mosses and plants like anubias take their nutrients in through the water column mostly, so the substrate choice won't affect them as much. If you want to go with a nutrient rich substrate but don't want the cost, you could always try mineralised top soil capped with sand or gravel in the colour of your choice - it's very economical. More info can be found in the sticky at the top of the substrate forum.




skystrife said:


> Still waiting on word from the water company on the use of Chloramines, however. Is there a way to test this yourself?


I know you can test for chlorine, there might be a chloramine test out there too? Maybe a chlorine test works for either, I'm not sure. However most water conditioners aren't too expensive and often contain other beneficial ingredients to promote fish health, so if you can't get a straight answer from the water department better to be on the safe side and just add some in.





skystrife said:


> My only concern with the BNs is the fact that they may eat the eggs of any spawn I could be blessed with from the Cichlids... though my inability to tend to fry while away may make this a moot point
> I've also been considering maybe keeping some _Corydoras_. I've never kept them and they look so adorable! However, the egg eating concern comes up again (but with the tetras in the tank and me being away, again, this might be a moot point).​


 
"Peaceful" cichlids or not, most are very protective of their eggs and will not allow other fish near, I wouldn't think you would need to worry too much, but perhaps someone else will give you their personal experience with these particular fish.

Welcome back to the world of aquaria!​


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## skystrife (Feb 20, 2010)

Kamivy said:


> Lol - many of us have the same sad history, don't worry!


Glad I'm not alone! Haha.




Kamivy said:


> I think it's definitely worth a look - I bought my 75 gallon used, and it has been great - many others on this forum have snapped up a second hand bargain too - Just check the tank out in person before committing, and if the tank is set up or full when you look at it, at least you know it'll have no leaks.


I'll start perusing my local craigslist then, and I may give the non-chain LFS a prod or two about used tanks.






Kamivy said:


> If you want to go with a nutrient rich substrate but don't want the cost, you could always try mineralised top soil capped with sand or gravel in the colour of your choice - it's very economical. More info can be found in the sticky at the top of the substrate forum.


I've just read the article from APC on it--looks like a great idea to me. I think I may go this route and cap with some form of black sand like Tahitian moon. Are there any concerns with this I should be aware of? I would assume disturbing this layer would be a bad thing, so I'll just have to be careful when stirring the sand to eliminate dead spots.




Kamivy said:


> However most water conditioners aren't too expensive and often contain other beneficial ingredients to promote fish health, so if you can't get a straight answer from the water department better to be on the safe side and just add some in.


Hmm, I should probably begin looking on an auto-dosing system then, to get it to dose the right amount per-day with the auto-changer.




Kamivy said:


> Welcome back to the world of aquaria!


Thanks! I'm glad to be back.

Thanks for the wonderfully helpful response,

Chase​


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## Delslo (Feb 5, 2010)

I have water similar to yours at the tap pH 7.8-8.0. I highly suggest staying away from the runny nose tetra, they much prefer water in the 6.5 pH range. As far as lighting Kamivy has it right. I would say get a double tube t-5 HO fixture, and that way if you want to increase your lighting you can simply get another and then you would be running mid-high light. In terms of substrate, if you can at during the winter, I would go the MTS route with the sand cap. I have been told by others on the forum that it is known to last 15 years. So, no worrying about revitalization. By the way 

WELCOME BACK TO THE HOBBY!!


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

You don't want to run T5HO over this tank unless you get a pressurized CO2 setup.

I'd go for either a 4x65 PC fixture or 2 2x T5NO fixtures.


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## fishsandwitch (Apr 20, 2008)

If you run t5no then IMO 4 bulbs will not be enough


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## Sakmeht (Mar 5, 2008)

Hi, just wanted to throw my 2 cents in here. I kept cichlids for awhile and used Tahitian Moon black sand. Couldn't stand the stuff as it was so light I was constantly sucking up sand with my python. I also didn't like the way the poop would just hang out on top of the sand floating along until I sucked it out. I've heard there are other sands that are heavier that might work better, but I have no experience as I went back to gravel after that. Good luck!

Btw, I was told by Hoppy (who's pretty knowledgable about lighting) that 2 T5HO bulbs spaced about a foot apart and about 5 inches above the surface of the water would give a good low/medium lighting in which you could get away with no CO2. I also have a 75 I'm planning on getting going and want to do low light and some medium light plants so just thought I'd throw that out there. That's some of the advice he gave me. :icon_smil


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I speak from experience. I run 2x54 T5HO over my own 90gal w/out CO2, and I'm down to a 6 hour photoperiod. A 90gal is already 6" taller than a standard 75gal (and my fixture is on legs so about 2" from the water surface), so I suspect you're looking at well over a foot above a 75gal to make it work w/out CO2.


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## skystrife (Feb 20, 2010)

Delslo said:


> In terms of substrate, if you can at during the winter, I would go the MTS route with the sand cap. I have been told by others on the forum that it is known to last 15 years. So, no worrying about revitalization.


I will definitely be using the MTS route. My cap for it is now the only thing I'm trying to decide. I would have gone the 3M Black Colorquartz route but they appear to have discontinued the product... so it looks like Tahitian Moon is my option now.



Delslo said:


> By the way
> 
> WELCOME BACK TO THE HOBBY!!


Thanks. =)



lauraleellbp said:


> You don't want to run T5HO over this tank unless you get a pressurized CO2 setup.
> 
> I'd go for either a 4x65 PC fixture or 2 2x T5NO fixtures.


4x65 power compact? Isn't that quite a bit of light?

2x T5NO, but what wattage would you suggest?



Sakmeht said:


> Btw, I was told by Hoppy (who's pretty knowledgable about lighting) that *2 T5HO bulbs spaced about a foot apart* *and about 5 inches above the surface* of the water would give a good low/medium lighting in which you could get away with no CO2. I also have a 75 I'm planning on getting going and want to do low light and some medium light plants so just thought I'd throw that out there. That's some of the advice he gave me. :icon_smil





lauraleellbp said:


> I speak from experience. I run 2x54 T5HO over my own 90gal w/out CO2, and I'm down to a 6 hour photoperiod. A 90gal is already 6" taller than a standard 75gal (and my fixture is on legs so about 2" from the water surface), *so I suspect you're looking at well over a foot above a 75gal to make it work w/out CO2*.





Delslo said:


> As far as lighting Kamivy has it right. I would say get a *double tube t-5 HO fixture*, and that way if you want to increase your lighting you can simply get another and then you would be running mid-high light.





fishsandwitch said:


> If you run *t5no* then IMO *4 bulbs will not be enough*





lauraleellbp said:


> I'd go for either a *4x65 PC fixture* or *2 2x T5NO fixtures*.


Gah. I went in confused and am more confused at this stage, haha. Of course, I couldn't have expected everyone to agree. I am thinking that I should err on the side of caution however as this tank will endure periods of ~2 weeks or so of no maintenance (beyond the automatic water change) and I don't want to come back to find a huge algal bloom due to nutrient-deficiency because of too high lighting. However, if I want to go to a CO2 system in the future I'll want to up my lighting... so what are my options?

Maybe going T5NO is a good idea and, if upgrading, overdriving them.

So, if that's the route I go, what would you suggest as far as wattage and fixtures?

(Also, feel free to chime in about lighting still--I have by no means made my decision, just weighing the options.)

If I were to go T5HO, however, what fixtures/wattage/bulbs would you recommend me looking at? I would have to, by the advice in the thread already, have to have the fixture a significant distance above the tank (which is fine), and upgrading from this would be trivial.

As far as Power Compacts go, I am clueless. Where would this rank on the scale between T8/T12, T5NO and T5HO? What combined total wattage should I be looking at if I go with power compacts? How easily would this setup be upgraded?

Thanks for all the help so far, and pardon my complete uneducatedness--that's why I'm here several months in advance, however. Haha.

P.S.: Random question: would you recommend planting and then running the fishless cycle or cycling and then adding plants?

Chase


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

If you go with a 4x65 CF fixture, you can run just one bank of bulbs while the tank is low tech/no CO2, and then run the 2nd bank once you've upgraded down the road. Take a look at the Catalina Solar CFs: http://www.catalinaaquarium.com/product_info.php?cPath=71_74&products_id=1170, and ask them to swap out the actinic bulbs for the pink plant grow ones.

Or, I think 2x of these T5NOs would also be a good low tech setup: http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsU...7/cl0/coralifefwt5aqualightdoublestriplight48 
(I run just one of these 36" T5NO over my 46gal low tech, with good results.) But then you'd probably want to upgrade to T5HO once you got CO2...

I haven't priced out TMS in a while, but if it's pretty much the same price as Flourite black, I'd personally go with Flourite so you can take advantage of the nutrient content.

And plant and then cycle the tank.


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## londonloco (Aug 25, 2005)

I have both a 75g and 120g...both 48" wide, but the 120g is 24" wide, the 75g is 18" wide. If you can swing it, go with the wider tank. Craigs list is a great source for slightly used tanks. I just picked up an AGA 26g bow, except for one mar on the cabinet, you'd think it was new. Petsmart sells them for 260$ tank and cabinet, I paid $100.

+1 on the Catalina fixture, I'm running a T5HO 3bulb from Catalina on my 75g. I had them add an extra switch/cord so I can have 2 or 3 bulbs running. I use a mid day burst for the 3rd bulb. The T5HO 3 bulb is ALOT of light, so I have it hung from ceiling 9" from waters edge. I use two 6500k bulbs and a pink bulb. I also dose this tank with excel, but going pressurized in the next month. I don't buy the Solar T5's from Catalina, but the T5 High Output fixtures. I think the Solars are more for reef tanks...they cost much more. 

I will only plant in mineralized top soil now. I've used eco, flourite and black sand. Nothing compares to the MTS. I hear Aqua Soil is also good, but very expensive. 

My ph is similar to yours. I've kept rummy nose w/my shell dwellers before...8.1 ph and they were fine. I currently have a school of them in my 120g, ph is 7.6, their red nose almost glow in the dark.

I've used Marineland, Fluval and Rena Filstar canister filters on my tanks. I have had no problem with any of them. Drsfosterandsmith have great prices on the XPS's, remember to use the CK code. 

Hope this helps!


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## iliketogolf (Feb 7, 2010)

lauraleellbp said:


> I speak from experience. I run 2x54 T5HO over my own 90gal w/out CO2, and I'm down to a 6 hour photoperiod. A 90gal is already 6" taller than a standard 75gal (and my fixture is on legs so about 2" from the water surface), so I suspect you're looking at well over a foot above a 75gal to make it work w/out CO2.


how high are the lights from the substrate? How long have you been running the 2 T5HO's with success (i.e. healthy plants with minimal algae)? And what degree kelvin are you using? 

I'm setting up something similar and planned on two T5HO 6700k lights but been told by LFS that these lights would look like i pee'd in the tank! Now i'm thinking of using 10,000k lights instead.


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/lighting/97622-par-data-selecting-t5ho-light.html

Tanking for years without a break but just got "serious" (now that's funny) about my hobby a couple of years ago. Lighting still can give me a headache. LOL

The above thread by Hoppy is lighting for dummies (which is me) Hope it helps.

Forgot the other opinion to provide regarding fish selection. LFABN appear to stay smaller then the the rest of their family and are a favorite of mine. 

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/swap-n-shop/92431-fs-l144-blue-eyed-yellow-bristlenose.html

Member with nice stock


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

iliketogolf said:


> how high are the lights from the substrate? How long have you been running the 2 T5HO's with success (i.e. healthy plants with minimal algae)? And what degree kelvin are you using?


The light is about 22" off the substrate.

I've been running 2x54 watts of T5HO for about 2 years over this tank. The tank did much better when I had floating plants and kept them relatively thinned. Here's an old pic:









I'm running a combo of 6700k and pink "plant grow" bulbs ATM... I do have a 10k bulb I keep meaning to put back in the fixture. I think I like 10k/pink bulb combos the best. 6700k is pretty yellow by itself, but looks OK mixed in with other bulbs.


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## skystrife (Feb 20, 2010)

lauraleellbp said:


> If you go with a 4x65 CF fixture, you can run just one bank of bulbs while the tank is low tech/no CO2, and then run the 2nd bank once you've upgraded down the road. Take a look at the Catalina Solar CFs: http://www.catalinaaquarium.com/product_info.php?cPath=71_74&products_id=1170, and ask them to swap out the actinic bulbs for the pink plant grow ones.


Assuming the fixture looks something like this (excuse the crude ascii drawing, let = be the tube and ] be the pins)

]=========| |=========[
]=========| |=========[

What would be the best option to run? The 6500K on the left and the pink grow bulb on the right, or both bulbs on one side? (What is the Kelvin rating on the pink bulb anyway?) I'm assuming the former would be better for light distribution, but will that give me a lopsided coloration?

Also, how would one request the bulb switch, a phone call? Or is there a comments option when checking out? (I didn't see one initially, but I didn't go too far in.)



lauraleellbp said:


> Or, I think 2x of these T5NOs would also be a good low tech setup: http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsU...7/cl0/coralifefwt5aqualightdoublestriplight48
> (I run just one of these 36" T5NO over my 46gal low tech, with good results.) But then you'd probably want to upgrade to T5HO once you got CO2...


Yeah, I'm thinking the PC fixture will probably be the best bet for that reason.



lauraleellbp said:


> I haven't priced out TMS in a while, but if it's pretty much the same price as Flourite black, I'd personally go with Flourite so you can take advantage of the nutrient content.


Will keep that in mind.



lauraleellbp said:


> And plant and then cycle the tank.


Mk.



londonloco said:


> I have both a 75g and 120g...both 48" wide, but the 120g is 24" wide, the 75g is 18" wide. If you can swing it, go with the wider tank. Craigs list is a great source for slightly used tanks. I just picked up an AGA 26g bow, except for one mar on the cabinet, you'd think it was new. Petsmart sells them for 260$ tank and cabinet, I paid $100.


I'll definitely go with the largest option that comes up, haha.



londonloco said:


> +1 on the Catalina fixture, I'm running a T5HO 3bulb from Catalina on my 75g. I had them add an extra switch/cord so I can have 2 or 3 bulbs running. I use a mid day burst for the 3rd bulb. The T5HO 3 bulb is ALOT of light, so I have it hung from ceiling 9" from waters edge. I use two 6500k bulbs and a pink bulb. I also dose this tank with excel, but going pressurized in the next month. I don't buy the Solar T5's from Catalina, but the T5 High Output fixtures. I think the Solars are more for reef tanks...they cost much more.


I think the Solar T5s and most of the T5 High Output fixtures on Catalina's site are the same thing?



londonloco said:


> I will only plant in mineralized top soil now. I've used eco, flourite and black sand. Nothing compares to the MTS. I hear Aqua Soil is also good, but very expensive.


I keep hearing great things about MTS, and the thread here also speaks of its wonders. I'll definitely be going with it and a sand cap.



londonloco said:


> My ph is similar to yours. I've kept rummy nose w/my shell dwellers before...8.1 ph and they were fine. I currently have a school of them in my 120g, ph is 7.6, their red nose almost glow in the dark.


I'll pester the LFS' Discus keeper about them and see how well they tend to do both from the water here as well as the shipment. Cardinals were what I want the most but they have not been shipping well and react adversely to the water, from what I learned on my last visit. There were Rummies there, though, and they appeared to be doing fine. I'll probably try to keep it safe though--several trips and lots of tank-stalking before I buy.



londonloco said:


> I've used Marineland, Fluval and Rena Filstar canister filters on my tanks. I have had no problem with any of them. Drsfosterandsmith have great prices on the XPS's, remember to use the CK code.
> 
> Hope this helps!


Yep, definitely using the CK code. ~$100 for that filter is just amazing.



wkndracer said:


> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/lighting/97622-par-data-selecting-t5ho-light.html
> 
> Tanking for years without a break but just got "serious" (now that's funny) about my hobby a couple of years ago. Lighting still can give me a headache. LOL
> 
> The above thread by Hoppy is lighting for dummies (which is me) Hope it helps.


Very interesting read, thanks for linking!



wkndracer said:


> Forgot the other opinion to provide regarding fish selection. LFABN appear to stay smaller then the the rest of their family and are a favorite of mine.
> 
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/swap-n-shop/92431-fs-l144-blue-eyed-yellow-bristlenose.html
> 
> Member with nice stock


If I interpreted this correctly, the longfin albinos stay shorter on average compared to the other Bristlenose? Interesting.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I'd play around with the bulbs and see which way you like it best. There's no real "right" or "wrong" when it comes to kelvins- most will support FW plant growth just fine- it's more personal aesthetic than anything else.

Call Catalina- not only can you often get sale prices on stuff even when they're not advertized on the website, but sometimes they'll throw in "extras" like the mounting brackets for free. Plus then you can ensure that the fixture is wired the way you want it, they can even custom design you a fixture if you want.

If you suspend this fixture from the ceiling it will give you lots of control and you can raise and lower it to find just the right amount of light for the tank.


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## skystrife (Feb 20, 2010)

Excellent, I will definitely have to do that. I'm thinking a mix of 10000K and 6700K... but undecided still.

I was reading up your 90 gallon low-tech journal and I'm a huge fan of the _E. tenellus_ carpet you have going on. Would I be able to achieve growth of any pygmy chain swords with this amount of light and no ferts? (I ask because your 90 gallon is running more light than I would be since it's on a T5HO fixture).

Also leaning toward German Blue Rams as opposed to Bolivians at the moment... If my LFS's stock comes from a local breeder I will definitely take advantage of tank-raised stock accustomed to the higher pH water of my area (it would make sense that the stock was locally raised because, while not the intensely stunning color you normally see in the GBRs pumped with hormones, they weren't pale by any means and seemed very healthy--one even chased my finger across the front glass as I tried to point to another fish in the tank!).

Still not sure what I want to do with the tetras... I would really love to have a nice school of Cardinals but it seems (from what I've been reading) that the quality of the catches hasn't been all that great recently... We'll see. (I also wonder about my high pH being an issue for them... so beautiful though. Same issues go for the Rummies as well.)


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

IME E. tenellus is one of the very easiest and hardiest low-light-tolerant carpeting plants. They're a bit like Crypts in that they do sometimes melt off when they are moved around, but once they re-establish, they come back and fill in really quickly! I'd definitely give them a try.


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