# Journal of My 80 Gallon Frag Tank "Recovery"



## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Alright, so I don't follow up in such a timely manner.:grin2:

Ferts: I think all planted tanks should be dosed.
Just changing water provides some but no where near all nutrients needed.
Also I have yet to see feeding alone provide enough phosphates.
I keep just enough livestock to keep NO3 provided with minimal WC's.

Hair algae has been a topic among many.
It has also infected two of my lo-tech tanks, one was at a severe level.
Manual removal and dosing macro mix to reach 1.5ppm of PO4 cleared things up for me.
Granted these lo-tech tanks only get ferts every two weeks, but what the heck it keeps algae in check.

Micro mix and toxicity, I did not fully jump for this.
I halved all of my micro dosing and have seen no bad results nor toxicity.

Alright I spoke my piece about ferts.
I'm going to move this journal to my new tank.
Since I have an extreme fascination for aquatic plants and planted real estate is very tough?
I have now opted for a planted frag tank, 80 gallon Deep Blue.
8 square feet of planting area, like putting two 40L's together.
2' x 4' and only 16" deep, extreme surface area IMO.
Plus is I won't get wet up to my shoulder when working or trimming.

New tank will be 80 gallon.
Due to pick up this weekend.
Corner filter with Poret foam from Swiss Tropicals.
Will be using a submerged pump in the corner to feed CO2 reactor and spraybar.
LED build is tested and working. 336 watt LED over 8 square feet.
It will be dimmed using existing Storm Controller.
PAR will be set for 120 @ 4" above substrate to start with.
CO2 will be @ my norm of about 35-40ppm.
Will post some picks after the weekend with corner filter.

Canopy construction will begin soon.
I have a hinged plan being implemented on all my tanks.

More to follow.


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## Pat24601 (Mar 4, 2017)

Great pic and informative post!


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

I've been waiting for someone to use the DB 80 gallon frag tank as a planted tank for several years now! I'm excited to see it happen! While reading through an old thread by @OVT this morning(his 30 gallon 24x24x12) I thought about this tank once more and my desire to see one planted! I'm definitely subbing this thread! Any thoughts on how you plan to do your layout? Wood or rock? 


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Today:

Tank is home.
40lb MGOPS
100lb BDBS
and a pump!

I have no idea where this is going.
Wood, rock, who knows.
Am thinking about carving on some large lava rocks at moment?
Maybe slice a large boulder in half and carve out a planting area in it.
That way small plants that need higher PAR to get started will have a chance?
Place these rocks right under an LED puck, then I can adjust to whatever.

LED drivers and sockets showed up in tthe mail today.
For those using LDD drivers Allied Electronics $ can't be beat.
Need to order some boards for the drivers now.
I am a very busy patient aquarist, thing take a while.


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

Very nice. Cannot wait to see. 


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

@johnson18 Tilly tank still going?


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Journal of All my Tanks*



Maryland Guppy said:


> @johnson18 Tilly tank still going?




Umm.... not exactly. Sadly, the tank is still sitting there with a few dried up tillys in it. [emoji17][emoji24] I did pass a few along when I knew they weren't doing well in AZ, at least with the time I had to dedicate to them. I'm actually about to turn that 20H into a permanent QT tank set up. 

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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Sifting through this Miracle Gro potting soil is a mess.
It was not the organic, sifting is sifting though.
More than half will be lost to the trash but that still leaves plenty.

Trying to decide on what to blend with the potting soil.
I have top soil, SafeTSorb, and some dolomite.

Will need to keep it in buckets and keep changing water for a bit.
NH3, NO2, NO3, and PO4 are all through the roof.
Cap or not this stuff is too hot right now IMO.


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

I didn't sift my mg potting soil, I wish I would have. 

I mixed mine with some of the black flourite sand to add something that had a higher CEC. I thought it might also help break things up a little to keep my soil layer a bit more "loose" & keep the odds of things going anaerobic down. If this idea was sound, no clue. I feel like I'd done my hw at the time though. Three years later the soil layer is still growing plants like crazy, although I do add in some root tabs every so often for my heavy root feeders. 

I'm sure it's definitely HOT!!


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Update: I know what good is it without pics?

Stand and canopy just got their last finish coat of shellac.
Wanted #1 pine for this project and I would have shelled out the $$$ too.
Lumber selection was so poor for #1 and since I wasn't making water ski's I had to pass and select #2 pine.
God bless the knots etc. it adds character right?

I skipped my usual use of Minwax for stain and bought some Varathane instead.
Varathane stain is quite impressive compared to Minwax.
Claimed to dry in 1 hour, really it's two hours, but still!
Was not as runny as Minwax and brush marks actually seamed to add a false impression of better wood grain.

This was also not an expert job of cabinet joinery, mind you it looks good but.
All glued and brads to shoot it all together, minimal wood putty etc.
Base was all straight 2x4's and a border of 1x6 to clean it up.
Ceramic coated deck screws for the 2x4's can't be beat.
They draw everything tight when done.

Stand is only 10" off the floor, it's going under my TV to replace a 40Long.
Canopy copies an older All Glass Aquariums dual hinged design.
Just bought cheap HD piano hinge and cut to length, some extra, you never know.

Glass and a substrate barrier is in place for the Poret foam corner filter.
Pump and heater with temp media ready for the corner.
Glass retainers for the foam was very easy to cut and bevel for silicone.
Substrate barrier is only siliconed to the tank bottom, no worry of expansion.

The potting soil is still very "Hot"
Been doing water changes on the buckets it is in.
NO2 & NO3 have subsided to a reasonable amount(no NO2 now), NH3 & PO4 are still off the chart.
Maybe a week more of water changes to the buckets will lighten the load?

Hardscape: I purchased a boulder of lava rock. 40 plus pounds?
This is all I will use in the tank for structure.
An old bandsaw blade will be used to slice this up to acceptable pieces.
Been staring at it for a while to decide upon the cuts.

Plumbing and CO2 reactor will be next on the list.
Going with a spraybar too, really like the bar on my 75 in regards to flow.
Everything in the tank gets moved around a bit.

Hopefully pics tomorrow: Night All.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Still tending the potting soil everyday.
Drain and refill the buckets.
Ammonia & phosphates are still leeching heavily, readings are through the roof.
Going to wet the topsoil tonight and see what that brings.

Need help to sit tank on stand so no pics yet, soon to follow.

Edit: After soaking the Scott's Premium Topsoil.
Very little waste and floating material to be removed.
Tomorrows testing will be the tale of the tape though.
Scott's may be a better choice than the Miracle Grow I tried.
Could not find the Organic bag, not sure that matters, analyzed ingredients was almost identical.

I will share what I have mixed when decided upon.

Night All:


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Scott's Premium Topsoil seems really good.
Very stable from the start.
Miracle Gro (Green Bag) still leeching lots.
Enough rinsing time to strain tomorrow and get it in my tank???

Heat sink boxes for lighting are complete.
7 dual puck LED's to light this mess.
LDD driver boards need to be ordered this week.

I am in a huge dilemma at this point.
Being a plant collector I have too many plants.
Trimming has not happened lately, too many other projects.
Have to start trimming 3 tanks and just make my own plugs to make them mobile.

To make matters even worse I just purchased a ton of Buce.
They are all cleaned up and potted now, but still too much.
I am just keeping ferts & CO2 in line and waiting it out.

More time needed for sure.


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## Opare (Sep 9, 2015)

Hahaha maybe an emersed setup is needed to help cope with collectoritis?


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Looks the makings of a very nice tank. Will be following along.

But if I may.......would really be nice to see some pictures!.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

@Greggz Yeah, I know, pictures needed bad instead of talking out my arse.

Not enough time in any given day lately.
Spring is here, been involved with trees, logging, firewood.
Cleaning up my field, dragging and excavating near the gates.
Electric fences need some love and wire tightened.
Horses all need their hooves trimmed.
I also have to play kickball with them every so often.







@Opare Emersed is not a good topic for me.

Transitioning emersed to submerged has been evil for me.
If I purchase submerged growth it is never a problem and grows well.
Tissue cultures seem to be about 75% in my favor.
LFS near me has a few nicely planted display tanks.
They will sell trimmings from these tanks occasionally for Like $3.
No transitioning on my part and great success.


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## Opare (Sep 9, 2015)

Fair enough your air may just be very supremely dry.


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Pics or it didnt happen!!


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Emersed is not a good topic for me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Emersed collections, for the most part, shouldn't be about growing plants for your submersed tanks!! That's what grow out tanks are for... Emersed tanks should be used for cool things like flowering plants or keeping things that don't do well grown completely underwater & other fun stuff like that. Honestly, emersed tanks mostly just make the collectoritis worse, usually in expensive ways! 

Although, I agree that if you're having serious issue transitioning most plants from emersed you probably need to increase the humidity of the emersed system. 


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Greggz said:


> But if I may.......would really be nice to see some pictures!.





burr740 said:


> Pics or it didnt happen!!


90 degree day for drying out the dirted mix.
552cu.in. of Scotts Premium
184cu.in. of SafeTSorb
414cu.in. of Miracle-Gro
1 pint of Aragonite (kind of just a sugar coating)
On average 1" of drywall bucket depth is about 92cu.in.









Corner filter Poret foam from Swiss Tropicals.
Cut the glass and silconed it in, also made a substrate barrier @ bottom.
Barrier is PlexyGlass but only siliconed to bottom of tank.









One of the farms, it is a total mess, WC this evening, trimming not sure.
The 80 is going in this tanks place, under wall mounted TV in basement living room with 2 other 4' tanks.









Canopy made of cheap pine, rustic look, dual hinged.
Flip up the back to get to plumbing, front lifts for about anything else.
Either is wide enough to allow access for trimming etc.
This design is working well and very rarely the need to remove canopy.

















Going to try and put soil in and at least get a 1" border of BDBS around edges.
1" of soil will stand up on it's own now after drying today.
Need to wire all pucks in the canopy next and purchase LDD boards.
Thinking of running it where it sits to test pump/spraybar until the dreaded exchange.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

See what happened!
I post some pics and everything just stops.
Seemed better with the verbal illusion and being imaginary pics.:laugh2:

As usual things happen and get in the way.
Plumbing is now finished.
Got a pump behind that Poret foam with a union.
This travels out the back through a CO2 reactor and back in the tank to a spray-bar.
Have yet to drill the holes in the spray-bar.
Contemplating angle of holes for best coverage.
Having several spray-bars in use I have a plan.

Came upon about 100' of 22AWG 4 conductor wire to get LED pucks going.
Great find @ work, almost in the trash before I re-purposed.

Another re-purposed find that threw a hitch in my progress.
A chemical treatment controller was found.
Reads temp, pH, ORP, Fe, Cu, and conductivity.
All readings can be keypad programmed to turn on relays for various uses.
Going to just use it to analyze water on a monthly basis.
Testing is all done now and it works!
Let the turbidity meter portion go to the dumpster, kind of know my water clarity @ this point.

Trying to get some BDBS rinsed before this day is done!


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Probed around with a marked toothpick and 1" of soil is confirmed.
Over this weekend got 1.25" or so of BDBS on top of it.

I am very paranoid of this soil thing since it is my first tank with such.
Lots of NH3 & PO4 leached into the bucket water.
Don't know how much will leach through the BDBS???

Going to run this tank with no light in my shop for a week or two.
Determine the water chemistry before an algae farm starts.

Brought the lava rock boulder in the house this evening.
Trying to determine where I want to cut it at.
No driftwood in this one, last driftwood event took 14 months to slow down the tannin.
I want some structure in the tank, raised level or 3 with some plants in it.

This weeks goals are cutting up the lava rock, mounting all 7 dual pucks in the canopy, and ordering boards for my LDD drivers.
That is enough considering the re-organization of my room to accommodate the new tank.

The chemical treatment controller is awesome.
Need to calibrate the pH probe and all is well.
Going to mount all the equipment on a board with a fill port and dump valve.
When I wish to perform a test open dump valve to extinguish plumbing and fill with a 6 ounce water sample.
Once turned on the system is solid after about 6 minutes with accurate readings.
The pH reading takes some time to stabilize.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Maryland Guppy said:


> The chemical treatment controller is awesome.
> Need to calibrate the pH probe and all is well.
> The pH reading takes some time to stabilize.


pH readings are all screwed up for me.
Calibrated high end probe and a small pH probe(ebay cheapy).
They read the same with tank water.

Tried confirming with API test kits as a test.
High pH reads the minimum and Low pH reads the maximum.
Since they cross @ 7.4 and 7.6 this is not possible.
Have to believe the electronic probes verses the titration tests.
API kits are also all within the expire date and shaken regardless.
All electronic probes were calibrated with a 7.0 solution only.
That is closest to actual water pH for me anyway.

Just trimming the jungles and preparing for the move @ this point.

Bought a ton of Buce from a fellow member.
It will need to be incorporated in the new scape too.
It is doing well and growing about 2 leaves per week.

This planted tank thing is bizarre.
It seems as though I need a vacation day every two weeks to just trim.
Too many species and too many plants going on @ once.

Science Project Continues!
Night All:


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

If you need to rid some trimmings you can always send them my way bud 


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Some fuzzy pics from trim tank #1.
Getting ready by trimming and using plugs and weights.
Damn this can take up a lot of time!
Need everything very mobile for the change up of tanks.
I have really let this tank jungle out for this swap.



























Glass has not been cleaned in a month+.
Just keeping ferts up and letting it go.
Many easy plants nothing difficult but that can change.

New 80 is about half full waiting on water test for ammonia and phosphate.
Water is clear, BDBS wasn't much to clean.
All fish are being rehomed to a friend.
Cycling new tank may be not needed since it may be no-fish!


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Could not wait to get home and test water today.
30-35 gallons of water on the substrate yielded only .25ppm of NH3!
BDBS must be really tight @ keeping the soil from leaching nutrients.

I guess once planted this NH3 would just be consumed?

No NO3 or PO4 in the water column either.

Since plants will tap the soil resources should I dose water column @ all?

Should I consider just dosing water column with EI mix to keep NO3 @ 10ppm?

I could use some suggestions here please feel free regarding that 1" layer of dirt under there.

Going to wire canopy tonight with my standard 42watt pucks.
7 pucks decided upon. 3 on filter side and 4 on non filter side.
Going to pre-adjust these to 100 PAR @ substrate for non-filter side.
50 PAR on filter side.
Maybe high light the middle and dim the ends? Any thoughts?

The quantity of pucks is for coverage not so much their capabilities.
I have just standardized on puck design due to existing materials on hand.
PWM dimming is a great thing!


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Could not wait to get home and test water today.
> 
> 30-35 gallons of water on the substrate yielded only .25ppm of NH3!
> 
> ...




I would dose for the water column feeders since not all I assume will be root feeders? Not sure there would be enough nutrients in water for them yet?


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## Opare (Sep 9, 2015)

*Journal of My 80 Gallon Tank*

You may be able to get away with dosing for a while, but I think a little bit won't hurt after maybe a month. Something lean should work though like the ADA regime, PPS-Pro or even crazily enough the Seachem regime. The target ppms for each should be floating around the internet somewhere.
As for where to put light intensity I guess that depends which plants are going where.

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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Day two water test and all is good.
No more water added just validating what may leech from the soil.
Still .25ppm ammonia and I can live with that.

Reckon I will need to dose something.
Thinking I will target 1ppm of PO4 and 10ppm of NO3 in the water column @ all times.
If it stays put it may only require once a week.
Fair approach I suppose.

Trim tank #1 is back to pearling again since a partial trim.
Think was due to too much growth shading other plants.

Tomorrow I will fill to the top and drill spray-bar.
Swapping these tanks on Saturday is my goal.

Night All:


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Day 3 and .25ppm of ammonia and nothing else.
Leak test passed tonight, even though it is brand new.
Small drip coming out of reactor, forgot to tape threads on exit side.
Spraybar seems to be churning the tank well enough.

Running on the side of the shop.
Cheap Marineland light stuck in there at the moment for picture taking.
It didn't work to well with the shop lights off though.









Tomorrow will be "D" day for the move, all seems well.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Here we are today!









Friday: Uprooted and bunched more plants together.

Saturday: Drained 80 in the shop, broke down the 40. Still yet to clean the plumbing out. Old styro-concrete hardscape is trash. Something got behind it and "Ate" the Styrofoam? Half of it is missing and I've never seen it floating in the tank. At 11pm tank was filled and filter/CO2 on.

Sunday: 4am finally to sleep. Cleaning more plants all day.
Hope the small buce can handle the Excel and H2O2 without melt?

PITA cleaning all these plants, so much went in the trash. BBA, snail eggs, dipping and so on. Trying to have a good start with this.
Now I have to figure out where it is all to be placed in the tank.
I think I have the week to get this done, plants are weighted in some way.

Thought about this tank way too much, as in how to really make it right.

No fish in this tank, after cleaning the 40, fish poo grows BBA quite well in all of the areas you can't vacuum or get too. Maybe as this tank matures I'll consider some shrimp that will fit in with the water parameters.

Ferts in a dirted tank, thought about this way too much.
I am dosing the water column based on plant consumption for now.
It is a very lean approach for now, see how it goes.

No moss either, once introduced the tiniest piece begins a jungle.

Evening All:


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

LOL, tanks are supposed to be relaxing. So, why do I (we) get so stressed out on the weekends when it's time to do maintenance? I feel your pain!!!


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Immortal1 said:


> LOL, tanks are supposed to be relaxing. So, why do I (we) get so stressed out on the weekends when it's time to do maintenance? I feel your pain!!!


This was a planned tank swap weekend for me.
Yes under the gun to get it done.
Normal weekend when the weather is good I am trailblazing through the woods on my horse.
Friday was so bad I should have built an Ark!

Normal "Maintenance" never an issue a little every day during the week.

Planted about 25% this evening.
Very hard to decide where it will all go.
I think I have way too many plants, may rehome to other tanks.
Didn't help that I bought a pot of Stellatus @ LFS today, but $5 got 18 stems.
The only substrate that may show might be only @ the front side of the tank.:grin2:


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

*Journal of My 80 Gallon Tank*

I think the plant mass is great what you have. Look at it this way. The more plants the less chance for algae. I love heavily planted. 

Oh I see you said that is just 25%. Lol. How are you going to fit 75% more plants in there?


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Looks like you are really getting somewhere now.

Lot's of possibilities there. Looking forward to seeing how things progress from here.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

@clownplanted I actually planted 25% of the plugs and weighted items in the substrate. I don't think it could hold an additional 75% more.
@Greggz Yes many possibilities. Put lot in the substrate Sunday evening but only somewhat happy with it. I guess I'll get it all placed and let it grow for a while before I start moving stuff around.

My vision of this tank is not so good yet!:smile2:


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Maryland Guppy said:


> @Greggz Yes many possibilities. Put lot in the substrate Sunday evening but only somewhat happy with it. I guess I'll get it all placed and let it grow for a while before I start moving stuff around.
> 
> My vision of this tank is not so good yet!:smile2:


I read with interest when people have elaborate detailed plans for a planted tank. I would guess it rarely turns out that way.

In my experience, a planted tank is always a work in progress. Mine changes from week to week. Things get moved, new plants are added, and some are removed. It's always evolving. 

I'm sure inspiration will come to you. And as to the plant mass, it may seem like a lot, but you have a lot of unused space yet. I'm betting we see that fill in as time goes on.

The good news is you have a lovely start, and I'm betting it only gets better.


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Looking good! I really like that footprint and depth


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## puriance (Feb 19, 2017)

Can I have a big tank? I want a big tank. Yours is such a nice big tank.

Bump:


Greggz said:


> I read with interest when people have elaborate detailed plans for a planted tank. I would guess it rarely turns out that way.


Sometimes the plans work out to the letter, but then you turn on the pump or have a snail and something disastrous happens regardless of your best intentions. 

The best laid plans of fish and men...

Or...

Something like that...


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Thank you for the interest and comments all.

Here is the 25% planted.









This is a "V" shaped area in the middle of the tank.
2 feet wide in the back to center of tank in the front.
When then fills in and has a trim or two I think I will be happy with it.

I have moved the plugs and weighted plants around 3 or 4 times to areas where I think I want them.
Not too big a hurry to push them in the sand.
They are healthy plants and pearl to some degree everyday.

Planting in BDBS is like a dream, everything stays right where I put it!
Got too used to SafeTSorb being lightweight and adjusting on the second day.

Today I dosed micros for first time.
All weekend to get NO3 to even register, just kept dumping capfuls, forgot how many grams of KNO3 I put in the bottle. It kind of seemed to match the Flourish product.
Upped the CO2 today to double the bubble rate.
pH drop, who cares maybe it will demolish any snail carry-over from plants.

Going to keep some crypts in here too.
So far no melt down since I really tried to match water parameters.

Some may have a problem with my waterflow but!
It's about 300 GPH from a spraybar in the back of tank.
Water travels across the top hits front glass goes down and to the back.
Very slow wave to the taller plants, I know it will distribute the ferts.
No micro bubbles from CO2, extra clear and clean.
Will be adding some Purigen to the corner filter this week.
It may take forever to get dark without fish but still to catch decomposed plant waste as organics.

Working on a 4th dip of some green wavy Buce that I really want to save.
It was covered in BBA along the backside that I never really saw in the previous setup.

LDD driver boards ordered today.
For those interested Steve's LED's has an 8 channel board for $12.
This tank will have 7 independent channels.
Lower lighting around the Buce and Crypts at the left end of tank.
Front right may also have a greatly reduced PAR for some others.
By the end of the weekend new canopy should be done I hope.

I am really excited and hope plant growth is up to expectations.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Canopy Progress.









Driver boards showed up today.
Hope to complete this this evening.
As for testing PAR maybe tomorrow?
294 watts, guessing it will run @ 45% duty cycle based on PAR.

Thought a lot about fish and critters etc...
Firmly decided against fish for sure.
Once I get some more MAD money and tank has matured possibly shrimp.
Thinking maybe purchase 20 high end shrimp suitable for my water.

Back to Canopy:


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

I am the only one that is nuts?

Programmer of automated machinery by trade.
So I am very used to electricity, knowing full well without test equipment I know nothing.

This science project we have all embraced seems extreme at times.
Water which I feel is very much like electricity, meaning one's self is blind unless we test, measure, etc...

LED's are the new age and I am involved in that too.
PAR meter, amps, duty cycle via PWM drivers etc...

Ferts are another topic all together.
I have repurposed scales, weights, compounds and such.
Went as far as building excel sheets to calculate my "Dose" just to understand the math behind the science.

My wife thinks I'm nuts!

I guess I am one that just needs a hobby that fully activates my mind!

Back to the Canopy:


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Nice looking build. I love a good project, and it looks like you have some skills.

Looking forward to seeing it finished.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

I was able to complete the canopy this evening but not installed.









This will all happen as time permits though.
Plants are pearling even stuff that just has a weight attached.
Plants can make it a few more days as there is no reason for me to be stressed over it.

I believe that everything planted in the substrate is showing growth already.
Plants are getting taller by the day. Soil make a difference, maybe, I don't know yet.

Too busy with all this new tank construction going on.
My norm is twice a week to sit on a small stool and check out the growth.
Make a round for three tanks and really examine what's going on.
Maybe next week.

Night All:


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## KWaters (May 1, 2017)

Looks like you're moving right along. Everything you've got so far looks at least ten times nicer and more efficient than anything my paws have touched. Canopy looks extremely pro.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Soldered up a 14 pin header to plug in the StormX and I have new lighting!
Total 48VDC load for new lighting is 4.9 Amps, I need to figure out what this equals in $$$ on the AC side though.
Will try to get a pic later this evening.

Very worried now since everything in the tank is pearling like mad.
I realize many think this to be a wonderful thing, but.
Don't want this to release the Kraken (Algae) for sure.
Tomorrow to measure PAR and most likely tone things down.

Water testing:
GH = 8, KH = 5, Ca = 30ppm, TDS = 192
NH3 = .5ppm
NO2 = 0ppm
NO3 = 15ppm(ish)
PO4 = 1ppm

I'm not liking the ammonia showing very much.
Light surface scum on the surface led me to test for ammonia.
Maybe a partial water change before the PAR testing tomorrow.
Is this all from the dirt under BDBS or massive small snail death due to gassing?
Should I even worry about .5ppm ammonia or will the plants suck it up???

Few more plants made it in the substrate yesterday.
Still trimming and tossing items showing algae before planting.

Getting late and still have work to finish.
Part time 3D drafting to pay for this lovely hobby!:grin2:


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Skimmed the scum off the top this morning.
Wiped some of that BDBS remnants/scum/oily/soot from the glass perimeter.
Finished up with a 10 gallon water change = 13.8% WC of 72 gallons.
This will most likely be my weekly norm.

New repurposed equipment provided some more water info.
pH = 7.14 (non CO2 time)
Temp = 72.6����º
C = 301uS
ORP = 110
mpy (Steel) = 4.04

Any insight if mpy of steel could be converted to iron content???


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Canopy is in place!
Another LED success too.









A very rough trim going on here.
Just need to get everything in the substrate @ this point.









I need to get PAR meter in this tank very soon.
Soil being new to me and I might add a little worried about ammonia!
This soil being capped might be the real ticket here.
Noticing substantial growth for several plants @ this time.
More trimming this evening for a bit, got to get this cleaned up.

Dosing may only be once per week.
Tested this morning again and the water column is as it was several day ago.
Macros unchanged so I will assume micros unchanged.
NH3 has dropped off to 0ppm since WC & skimming this morning.

Science Project Continues:


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

*Journal of My 80 Gallon Tank*

Looking awesome bud. I also do the same thing as far as dosing goes. It its macro day and the levels are pretty much the same from 2 days before then I will also skip dosing micros next day since they are most likely still in the water column as well. 


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

clownplanted said:


> Looking awesome bud. I also do the same thing as far as dosing goes. It its macro day and the levels are pretty much the same from 2 days before then I will also skip dosing micros next day since they are most likely still in the water column as well.


Thanks my friend!

Dosing: I am used to a much different program here.
This soil capped with BDBS is tight.
Seems like plants are not taking from the water column so I will just dose as water column suggests.
I'll just test this tank again in two or three days to determine dosing.

All my tanks both Lo & Hi tech get 10-15ppm of NO3 & 1 ppm of PO4 maintained in the water column.
Not that I am lazy with WC's but just overdosing ferts doesn't seem right to me.
Micros are in the middle between EI & (New)PPS Pro dosing.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

More plants in the substrate today, could only handle about 2 hours.
Left side is almost all planted.









Lots went to the trash today.
All due to algae on the plants.
Trying to keep this new tank rather clean.
Not one piece of Ambulia is over 3", it will grow in time.

Pearlweed has doubled in size and I'm not even sure it will go in this tank.

Last weekend purchase of P.Stellatus has grown over an inch on some stems.
It is taking up a lot of space @ this time but doing very well.

Ammonia still @ 0ppm so soil is not leaching anything.
Water column still the same for NO3 & PO4.
My guess is plants are taking from the soil underneath.
Maybe I should have done soil long ago???

Surface scum is another story all together.
Skimming with a container again.
Everything in the container suggests BDBS scum/oily/soot.
Not a real issue but should be gone soon.

Going to try for some good plant pics soon.

Night All:


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

For me the bdbs scum was gone in about a week in my 20 gallon. 


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Good Evening All:
Even though sometimes I am talking to myself here!:grin2:

Still surface scum everyday, black soot in the cup.
We all know what that is, BDBS.
Not to shy anyone away from BDBS it leaves some traces behind at first.

PAR meter results for lower(left) side of tank are 80
Right side is a firm 105 and PUR is in the upper 70's everywhere.
Leaving this alone right now till things settle out and my fear is better.
The target for high light side is 125.

New cell phone has too many settings for pics.
I'll get this right eventually but here are some pics.

Poor Ambulia nothing made the cut over 3" in height.







Green wavy Buce is doing well.
This all started from 5 small pieces and have given multiples to friends.
Instead of attaching Buce I cut the rhizome back some and only plant the roots as any other stem plant.









Some Luwigia P for a second go around here.
I'll give it some time and some more light soon.
Might turn the puck up higher over this one, it seems like a light hog.









P. Stellatus has grown over an inch since last weekends purchase.
Want to blame this on the soil under the BDBS!









Polysperma Sunset is in rare form with color.
Picture does not due it justice.









Once I become better @ this cell phone camera I can get some better pics.
If not I'll move to the DSLR and they will be better!

Another farm tank of mine lost a tri-color platy this morning.
A fish with age and has provided many young fry.
I let it go, Amano shrimp tore it to the bone by the time I got home today.
What am amazing opportunistic feeder they are!

Night All: Trying to get a few more plants in the substrate tonight!


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Good Evening All:
> Even though sometimes I am talking to myself here!:grin2:


No not talking to yourself, I have been listening and enjoying the updates. Looks like you've got some nice interesting plants in there to work with. Like I've said before, I think the best is yet to come as things fill in and take shape.

Especially enjoyed seeing all the Buce. Sure looks like you are doing quite well with it.

Now I do have one question I have been thinking about. With the height of that tank, do you have to basically lay on the floor to view it? Just never seen anything like that.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Greggz said:


> do you have to basically lay on the floor to view it? Just never seen anything like that.


It is under my TV(55") in the basement family room.
About 12" above the floor.
Sitting far enough away on the sofas it is all in plain view except maybe tallest plants in the background.
If you are watching TV or taking a break from viewing it is there to observe.
Placed it here so that it would always be visible and not overlooked.
Also forces me to keep it in a pristine type condition.

I'll grab a pic from sitting on the sofa and you will see what I mean.

While sitting on the sofa and looking behind one's self other tanks are viewable @ a higher elevation.
I like the 70 behind me but cannot stand the 55 gallon tank.
All that height and only 12" depth.


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## sdwindansea (Oct 28, 2016)

I've been enjoying this one as well. No responses from me as I have nothing worthwhile to add and this post proves it . The buce on the substrate is interesting, looking forward to seeing how it spreads out.


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## Opare (Sep 9, 2015)

I very much like how this tank is slowly progressing and you are doing work and adding plants gradually. Makes it much more manageable then the all-at-once start ups most of us usually do.


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

I also am one that really has been enjoying this build. Always read your posts and look at the nice pics. It is coming along great. 


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

sdwindansea said:


> The buce on the substrate is interesting, looking forward to seeing how it spreads out.


Been doing the Buce in the substrate for a little over a year.
After a few weeks it is well anchored, roots go straight to bottom of tank and then "T" outward.



Opare said:


> I very much like how this tank is slowly progressing and you are doing work and adding plants gradually. Makes it much more manageable then the all-at-once start ups most of us usually do.


I don't know about manageable. All of my plants have just been in plugs or weighted all in the same tank.
Some of the huge bundles have been reduced to 6-7 stems after a thorough trimming.


This is my first trip using dirt.
Odd thing is water column is unchanged everyday, NO3=15ppm & PO4 = 1ppm.
First two days I brought these levels up now into day 11 I think.
1-1/2 doses of micros were added over first 4 days.
Normally every other day these would almost be undetectable in prior environment.
So no dosing until I see a change in water column tests.
Guessing I'll test once per week and see where it goes.

WC's are @ maybe a gallon a day right now.
This is due to skimming a gallon a day of scum etc... from surface.
When scum is gone I am not sure, maybe very minimal?
No fish, just a few snails from the carry-over of plants.

Maybe as I see water column nutrients getting used I plan on new dirt mix and a rescape?
6 months, one year, I have no idea.
A once a year total cleanup could be a good thing!
Pull plants, sell extras, suck all the BDBS and dirt out and start round two?
Certainly not cost prohibitive under $20 in substrates to do it again.


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## Opare (Sep 9, 2015)

Hahaha yeah but I think it would be impossible for you to do if you tried to set it all up in a day.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Good Evening All:

Almost through with the salvage job.
FTS shot from this evening.









Skimming required again tonight.
No black soot from the BDBS, just white sheen on surface.
No NH3 and NO3 & PO4 are still exactly the same.

Some other plants from the right side.
Poor rotala was really rough, it should come alive, it's hardy.









Almost feel good about getting everything planted.
Do not like the look but it's a work in progress.
Need to let things grow and adjust in the future.

Night All:


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Good Evening All:

Yesterday my travel home from Washington D.C. was rough soooo!!!!
Went to a LFS not too far away, purchased two bunches of plants.
I am lucky since they have @ least 15 or so tanks filled with plants.
They keep a relatively decent stock of many varieties.
Ammania Senegalensis & Ludwigia "Cuba".








In the past I have had very little success from emersed to submerged.
We shall see as this progresses!

Rotala is on the upside, I don't even know for sure what type.
From a friend, got sucked up in his filter, I got the remnants 2 years ago.









Polysperma Sunset looks awesome these days.









I'm kind of 50/50 on this whole thing.
Plants showing good growth so far for all species.
Still skimming 2.5 gallons every day I get home.
Terrible surface scum, old plants rotting, new plants introduced, added water column ferts???
I really believe the dirt under the BDBS is providing well enough.
No more black scum is present from the BDBS.
Surface scum, daily removal is affecting PAR readings.
Still an experiment for sure.

Night All:


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Still an experiment for sure.


Couldn't agree more. It always is. 

It's much like my golf game.....whenever I think I have it finally figured out.....it reminds me I don't have a clue. 

Nice pick up on some local plants. Hard to do for most.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Another day of scum on the surface here.
Skimmed about 2 gallons to get rid of it with a "Solo" cup.

Could it be ferts I introduced precipitating?
Very doubtful, TDS is the same and so are NH3, NO3, & PO4 readings.
They are 0, 15, and 1 respectively, this is still my original dose.

Yes I test with API, especially since this setup is new.
But no changes have occurred within the results.

My conclusion is plants will take from the substrate first and just outright ditch the water column.
BDBS is tight enough to prevent nutrients from leaching into the water column.
Let's face it, the proof is in the water column testing, unchanged???
I want to blame NH3 original readings on the use of "Prime" and municipal chloramines.

Thinking of adding Purigen to the corner filter.
An organic scavenging resin may clear this up???
Who knows but tomorrow I think I will test it.

Thinking that soil capped is the real ticket @ this point.

Going to try and get some individual plant pics this evening.

Night All:


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## Opare (Sep 9, 2015)

Surface skimmer may help, it could just be all the waste thrown out from the plants.


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## sdwindansea (Oct 28, 2016)

I was going to say the same thing as Opare. I run this one occasionally on my 60 gallon (usually during a canister clean). Extremely inexpensive - https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B016QWPCAS. On negative is the spray bar is extremely loose but some teflon tape solved that.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Opare said:


> Surface skimmer may help, it could just be all the waste thrown out from the plants.





sdwindansea said:


> I was going to say the same thing as Opare. I run this one occasionally on my 60 gallon (usually during a canister clean).


This may be a good idea!
This morning surface was loaded up again.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

FTS Tonight









Ambulia has almost doubled in size, 3" pieces are almost 5".









P.Stellatus has grown about 6-7 nodes in 2 weeks.
This used to be my death plant.









L.Cuba is transitioning after about 3 days, I'm happy.









L.Repens Narrow pearls like crazy, 3" to these stems in two weeks.









New Stuff! Since I am a plant collector???
Went by LFS I visited the other day to add to the jungle.
Did well, $22 got me 20 stems of wallichi, 7 ammannia golden, 9 ammannia red, and 30 rotala indica.









Riccia pearls like mad and has a green tone that nothing else displays.
Need to figure out how to keep this in the tank and work it out.









The 150 or so stems of pearlweed went to another tank.
Was not worth keeping in this one.

Still skimming scum twice daily, no skimmer yet either.
None were to be had during the LFS trip.

No more plants either, I have enough stuff growing out right now.
I'm sure I'll have to thin out and sell some in the future.
After some thinning placement will become more important.
This grow-out phase will take a little while though.

Night All:


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

Looking awesome and great growth. Obviously stuff is on tap bud. Hope to get some of your trimmings when the time comes 


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Good Evening All:

The density of all things, I should not be a collector.
This will needs lots of thinning as it progresses.









New growth already on L.Cuba









Small green wavy "Buce" is not looking too shabby.
Only 55-60 PAR over these guys, little darker on the left side of tank.
Trying not to adjust lighting and just see what happens.









Much less surface scum on the tank today.
Skimming only required about a gallon to clean it up.
Forgot to add the Purigen too, damn!

Started trimming my 70 this morning and it ain't pretty.
Lots of stems floating until tomorrow evening.
Some of the plants I put in the 80 from the 70 will need additional trimming.
Some stems have a bit more algae than I had thought.
I am old and glasses are required now!:grin2:
DSLR camera is what alerted me to the extra algae.
Amazing what is caught viewing through the lens.

55 gallon with Moscow guppies has a hair algae bonanza that just started.
Anubias cleansing from BBA around some edges in order too.
It will be a busy week, need to ditch the 55 soon.

Also think I have made a final decision on livestock for the 80.
Blue dream shrimp should look good against the BDBS!
Originally thought of red, blue, and yellow shrimp but they would all interbreed.
When the surface scum is gone I will try a half dozen.
If they make it a month I'll try a larger quantity.

As I am typing the tanks are dimming!
Night All:


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Good Evening All(who follow):

Been thinking lots about this new tank.
In summary I'm thinking dirt with a cap is the best policy for plant growth.
I would not rate is as extreme growth but with the exception of a few plants.
Potamogeton gayi was most likely not my best choice in terms of a weed and a prolific grower.
I have even noticed during the tank move many plants were weighted or plugged to afford me time to get to them.
Having done this before with plugs and such I have never seen the root growth that has been apparent with them floating above the capped dirt.
Almost like they were reaching for the dirt below the cap.

Emersed forms of recent plant acquisitions have taken quick to root.
They are also showing great submerged growth which I am not used too.

The Rotala something that I have has always been scrawny and thin portraying very small nodes and leaves. Deformed looking @ most times.
What a change in this species for me!

Ammannia sp. Red, which is a tough plant to grow now has 7 days on it.
New bright red growth is happening, just hope it stays.

The low light side (60 PAR @ substrate) has proven well too.
Buce green wavy (generic) has new rhizome length and extra leaves.
Buce Theia Blue is starting to go nuts with new leaves unfolding daily.
Ranunculus inundatus has started new growth and new runners, did lose some older leaves during this move, it seems very delicate for moving.

CO2 & pH drop is probably not 30ppm, have not even really tested for it.
Ferts are still on hold, still close to the original tested dose.
Pearling has gone nuts about 2 hours in to lights on.
Tank looks cloudy from micro bubbles rising off plants.
Large bubbles intermittently come from nowhere.

The "guineas" are in, 6 blue dream shrimp yesterday.
1 death, 3 molts found, and can only find 2 at any given time.
Too much plant mass to detect 5 small shrimp all @ once.

The surface scum is slowly reducing itself.
A new thought on this, corner filter of Poret foam, could this cause the surface scum?
This is the one thing I have forgot about but it is now less with each day.

Night All:


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Evening Pic


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Evening Pic




Beautiful pic. Just look at the colors and the pearling. Good job bud. 


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Good Evening All:

Two more from last night as the lights were fading.
Indica seems happy.









Wallichi that I hope lives!









Well the surface scum is getting less by the day.
Takes about 1.5 gallons of skimming daily to remove it all.

Pearling is occurring but not @ some crazy rate.
I will not turn up the lighting any!
Ferts are almost exactly as I dosed a little over two weeks ago.
The has held true even though about 20 gallons of water has been changed due to skimming.
No dosing of macros, but a minute dose of micro last night.

Plants are all doing well except one stem of L.Cuba will not transition.
It is still growing an emersed form of leaf.
P.stellatus can grow an inch per day, not all stems it seems they trade off days.
A small trim is in order this evening.
P.gayi is shading some stuff.









I have introduced old algae into this tank on many repurposed stems.
Maybe some weekend trimming to clean it up and remove.
Just worried that some stems should not be disturbed yet.
Maybe some Excel as an algaecide??? Don't know yet.
Spot treat a few items, who knows.


Since 5 or 6 shrimp survived they have chosen to hide extremely well.
Very hard to find the little buggers.

Camera dilemma is solved! New LG V20 phone is better than the DSLR.:surprise:
The trick is using the phone camera in manual mode and it takes way better pics than the DSLR in manual mode.

Night All: Off to trim!


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Good Evening All:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




What are your current water paramaters with the CRS in there?


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## mattenx (Nov 28, 2016)

"The 150 or so stems of pearlweed went to another tank.
Was not worth keeping in this one."

why did you get rid of the pearl weed?


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

clownplanted said:


> What are your current water paramaters with the CRS in there?


 @clownplanted Guineas were blue dream shrimp not CRS, much smaller too!
Parameters are 7d GH, 5d KH, TDS 200, molted once they hit my water.
LFS had them in 0 GH & 0KH, they must have used all distilled water.
I always test the LFS water during acclimation.



mattenx said:


> "The 150 or so stems of pearlweed went to another tank.
> Was not worth keeping in this one."
> 
> why did you get rid of the pearl weed?


 @mattenx Moved pearlweed plugs to my 70 since I ran out of room.
It was worth keeping, clean and algae free, sadly I ran out of space.
Way overestimated what I could place in the new 80G.

I may need to just buy 2 more 80 frag tanks and get rid of these deep tanks.
Tired of being up to my armpits in water for sure.

Trimming in the am, I'm on vacation! :grin2:


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

Maryland Guppy said:


> @clownplanted Guineas were blue dream shrimp not CRS, much smaller too!
> 
> Parameters are 7d GH, 5d KH, TDS 200, molted once they hit my water.
> 
> ...




Or keep the existing tanks and get two 80 frag tanks. I do hear ya though having to work on my 60 gallon is hard. Then move over to my 20 long and wow what a difference. Really dread having to trim and stuff in my 60. Good thing though is my large swords have room to grow. Even with the high tank they are still growing out of it literally. 


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

I'm 6'2" and use a stool to trim the 70G, this is crazy.
The 80G new tank is 8 square feet and only 16 or so inches deep.
This makes trimming quick and easy.


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

*Journal of My 80 Gallon Tank*



Maryland Guppy said:


> I'm 6'2" and use a stool to trim the 70G, this is crazy.
> 
> The 80G new tank is 8 square feet and only 16 or so inches deep.
> 
> This makes trimming quick and easy.




Oh man I've got to get one of those 80. Yup I'm 5'10" and have to get a tall chair to work on mine. Crazy. Sometimes I'll even skip a week of trimming lol. In fact it needs one now bad. It's like we are the plants barbers lol. Except they have to get a cut much more often. 


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Great news today:

Sorry first:
Good Evening All:
No skimming required today, surface is almost devoid of any scum.>

Can only find 1 blue shrimp today, no corpses though!
Way too much plant mass to confirm their existence.
If snails were the sole proof of life I'd be in great shape!

Thinking of getting a huge lot of assassin snails but will they really do the job?
I have a dozen in my 70G and they are weak, very weak.
The little pond/bladder snails do seem to only feed on old dead plant matter.

Added Purigen bag yesterday of 150ml.
Has that helped the surface scum/organics?
Maybe I should have added since day one.

Overall it has been 3 weeks since filled with water.
In summary all is very well. Other than algae I introduced from existing plant mass.
This could not be helped or I would have thrown too much away.

My fears of Miracle-Gro leaching into the water column were bogus with a tight sand cap such as BDBS.
All future tanks will get the same, just quicker for the grow.

Night All:


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Plants are really looking great! Surface scum disappearing, that's a good sign the tank is maturing and all is well.


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## sdwindansea (Oct 28, 2016)

I would let the snails run their course. I'm guessing they are doing way more good than harm at this point.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Maryland Guppy said:


> I'm 6'2" and use a stool to trim the 70G, this is crazy.
> The 80G new tank is 8 square feet and only 16 or so inches deep.
> This makes trimming quick and easy.


Wow, only 16 inches deep? Sounds like you are going to be trimming a lot! If you let it go at all, all those stems will be crawling out of the tank.

Looking forward to seeing where it goes from here.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Greggz said:


> Wow, only 16 inches deep? Sounds like you are going to be trimming a lot! If you let it go at all, all those stems will be crawling out of the tank.
> 
> Looking forward to seeing where it goes from here.


Actually I just measured it 17" including the frames.
Easy to work in, no more soaked armpits either.:grin2:

I just looked in the bottom of my empty coffee cup and there are small snails involved.:icon_eek:
Did I skim the 80 with this cup? Must have.

Been thinking of replacing all my 4 foot tanks(3) with these.
Build a stand in the corner in an "L" shape to hold 3 tanks.
All things aquatic could be stored under these, lots of space.
No canopy for the corner arrangement though.
Some structure for holding all the light pucks though?

Problem:
What to put in that 2'x2' hole in the corner???
Or let the tanks fill the corner???
This could be 12' of front viewing with the corner empty. L=10'x6'
Or 10' of front viewing. L=10'x4' or 8'x6'


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

*Journal of My 80 Gallon Tank*



Greggz said:


> Wow, only 16 inches deep? Sounds like you are going to be trimming a lot! If you let it go at all, all those stems will be crawling out of the tank.




Haha! That's what my thought was, so many stems! I'm guessing we'll be seeing a lot of them in the For Sale forum quite often!! I thought my collectoritis was bad, but I know there are always those around who are suffering far worse than I! 


Tank looks good!! Can't wait to see more of those blue shrimp!

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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

I have just one pic of only 1 shrimp.









If these 5 pass the test I'm going to get 50.
I want to make sure they all make it first.
Water is fine, CO2 under 30ppm, minimal ferts with the use of soil.
pH & TDS hardness and all are good for the blue shrimp.
Same parameters as RCS.


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

Maryland Guppy said:


> I have just one pic of only 1 shrimp.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Awesome. Just look at that amazing color. Am sure they will do good. Mine are starting to hide more lol. Harder to get pics now. 


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Good Evening All:

Yes I have to search for my 5 shrimp.
Between the wall and the tank (tight space) just to get a head count.
Only left enough room to service plumbing on a rare occasion. PITA it is.
Have not looked for them yet this evening. Possibly in the am.

I was serious about getting more 80G frag tanks.
Just not sure how to re-arrange the room, woodstove, furniture etc...
Ideas about the "Dead" corner issue are welcome!
Wife wants to move in the near future, maybe 2-3 years.
All of this crap will need to be hauled out of here and not by me!
I'll pack up the plants and let movers load my trucks with the tanks.
Enough until that time comes!

Tested water today, rare event normally.
Good mostly but N was almost bottomed out, P lower than the norm.
Dosed macros today and will check N tomorrow to verify.
I am not a WC fanatic, check TDS all week long, it's quick.
All of the skimming over the last 3 weeks has provided about 50 gallons of changed water.
A bit over half of tank volume but I am also not dosing EI levels with the capped soil.

I really believe that soil capped is the ticket.
Now being over the paranoia of leaching nutrients, all is good.
Growth is great in all ways.

Sometime over this Holiday weekend I am going to run the Diatom filter for a few hours.
Not sure why but try to clean things up even though there are no bad signs.
It can never hurt for sure.


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Good Evening All:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




The fact you can't locate your 5 shrimp in this 80g tank packed full of stems is NOT a surprise at all!! Hell, I think I've probably got 20-50+ RCS in my 55 & I only see them if I really start moving plants around! 

As far as more frag tanks go, DO IT!!! I'd love to see more of these tanks! I want one for myself too!!


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Good Evening All:

Blue shrimp solved:
They hide on the corner filter that is constructed of blue Poret foam.
Caught them with a flashlight today during daytime hours.
Sneaky little buggers.
They seem to shy away from the bright light.
As soon as the flashlight hits them they run deep and into the stems.

As I said decided to run the Diatom filter in the new tank.








Procrastinating around 5pm and @ 530 decided what the hay.
Been going for 3 hours now.
Talk about 1 micro clarity, I should have kept the turbidity meter to test it out.
Ran an extra pump with a wand and 1/4" hose just to stir the rest of the tank up.
Hit all the plants with it and the BDBS @ the bottom.

I believe I could cycle a tank with snail shiitake.
Little buggers let a lot go all the time!

Diatom filter was rather problematic.
Stirred up way too much way too quick.
Stuffed the outlet in the corner filter so I am really backwashing the corner filter @ the same time.

Upped my game today too.
Been thinking about PO4 @ 1ppm and decided to go to 1.5-2ppm.
Mixed new macro bottle up and have not dosed yet due to cleaning.

Need a plant ID too.
It is a rotala of some sorts.








Given to me from a friend @ work.
Got sucked up in his filter and started off as next to nothing.
Had this going for years but never growth like this.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Is that Rotala really white like it looks? If so, very cool. Put me on the list for trimmings.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Just had too look again @ the tank.
Yes, the pic reps the colors about spot on.
I don't think it is some white variety though.
@ 7" off substrate my guess is 160 PAR where the tops are.

Friend got it @ a LFS in south Washington D.C.
I'm sure it is nothing special, and he is very cheap.:grin2:

It has just turned into a very good growing plant with the new setup.

Edit:
Thinking about this!!!
This Rotala has went through about 7 stages of rough.
Until now it has not looked like this @ all.
What have I been missing out on.


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

Put me down for some trimmings of that Rotala. Looks amazing. 


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

I really don't think this Rotala is anything amazing.
Maybe just the PAR that it is @ right now?
Year number 3 for me and just now it has really blossomed.
Blossomed under a huge change in lighting mind you.
I'll try to get a pic of the bad which still exists in 2 other tanks.

For the night I am thinking of leaving the Diatom filter running.
Water clarity is awesome @ this point, let it go I say!

Maybe every 3-4 weeks the Diatom filter is a win.
Maybe even for all the large tanks I have running.
Moscow blue guppy tank needs CO2 added this week too.
Make them all hi-tech and quit worrying about NO3 buildup!

Night All:


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Good Evening All:
Happy Memorial Day!

FTS from just now, Vortex made a difference.
I thought the water was super clear before, but maybe not so much.
Output from the diatom filter had to go in the foam corner filter.
It would have blasted everything to pieces.









All kinds of algae in there.
Staghorn, single strand green, minimal diatoms, but no BBA that I can find!
All on plants from the carry over, some cropping and trimming will be in order soon.

Pond/bladder snails have gone nuts.
I am thinking lettuce and a turkey baster with 25 assassin snails.
Normally I would not react but it seems extreme in comparison to my other tanks.

Plant mass seems to all be growing well for the most part.
Started more SS mesh for riccia, going to run it the whole front of tank.
It will just be a grassy looking row (façade) in the front.
It is quick to trim and grows really quick, easy to tie to screen too.
I'd like this to be a 2" tall hedge right up against the front glass.

Macro dosing is upped to 2ppm PO4 and 20-25ppm of NO3 with K in line.
Micro dosing has been once last week @.1 Fe from CSM+B with additional 10%Fe added(not all CSM+B)
Just in the past week I have seen the dosed ferts leaving the water column.
Being my first dirted/capped tank I don't know how this works.
Plants like it a whole lot better than the inert and high CEC substrates.

TDS running around 220 even with additional ferts.
I was expecting the 300 plus range but no.
Diatom filter must have really cleaned up the water.
Purigen still holding it's color so far but lots of small plant matter captured by diatom filter and also netted.

5 tiny blue shrimp and I have only been able to view 4 @ any given time.
Hope they all make it they are pretty awesome when you get to really view them.

Pearling is an all day thing but not to a great extent.
At least I know the O2 content must be saturated.
I use no air stone or anything of the sorts.
Been thinking of putting a SPDT relay on my CO2 timer.
This way my reactor will process O2 during lights out and completely saturate the water column with O2.
The minute lights come on should be instant pearling.
Will need to make a new dual bubble counter and buy a cheap air pump for this.
Any thoughts on this or has anyone tried before?
Will it really help anything???

I run my CO2 @ 3PSI to my reactor, why higher?
I have an extra cheap inline regulator after my solenoid to reduce 20 PSI to 3.
It's not a diffuser needing some extreme PSI to break free.
The plus side is never needing to combat any low PSI side leaks.
I mean @ 3 PSI how much can escape fittings etc...

This post has been 3 hours in the making.
Time for me to shut up now.
Bet I have forgotten the intent of this post due to all the phone calls and text interruptions.

Evening All:


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

Isn't too much o2 bad for the plants though? Remember reading that somewhere I could be wrong though. I have never heard of a SPDT relay. How exactly would that work at giving you more o2 and stuff?? Sounds very interesting. Your tank looks really good.

You know I always love reading your journal you are so detailed with explaining everything. I do learn from reading your entries.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

clownplanted said:


> Isn't too much o2 bad for the plants though? Remember reading that somewhere I could be wrong though. I have never heard of a SPDT relay. How exactly would that work at giving you more o2 and stuff?? Sounds very interesting. Your tank looks really good.
> 
> You know I always love reading your journal you are so detailed with explaining everything. I do learn from reading your entries.


Thanks for the compliment!
I always hope to let others know what I am trying and why.

Tanks looks fair to me, everything will eventually be moved and or some sold.
Had to get plants in the substrate to experience the benefits of soil.
Capped soil is new to me and I believe it makes a huge difference.
Time will tell though.

As a child is the late 60's when I began this hobby there were not many plants available.
Breeding convict cichlids was my thing at the time. 
Today there is a lot more going on.
No more T12 HO & VHO fluorescent lighting, all LED's.
I have not experimented with T5's and most likely won't
Not that anything is wrong with them, but keeping up with technology.
I also don't receive a shock as much anymore!
Instead of 3-4 plants @ the LFS there are 20 or more tanks with many varieties each.
I think today's plant variety is what got me going again.


SPDT = Single pole double throw relay.
When on during shall we say CO2 time the N/O contact on the relay turns on the normal coil we all use on our CO2 rig/setup.
When the relay switches off N/C contact to turn on an air pump with a check and flow control to provide atmospheric air to the bubble counter.
This would not put bubbles directly into the tank but use the same reactor as the CO2.
Heck pump and reactor are running 24/7.

Just thinking out of my backside on this one.
Don't know if anyone has done such?

Why not saturate the water column with O2 during the night.
It is said that plants uptake O2 after lights out, is it true, I don't know.
Livestock will be happier during the day and O2 and CO2 concentrations can be present in the water @ the same time.
Without the bubbles I'll not be off-gassing any CO2 remnants, just adding O2.
It's not one or the other by any means.
I would not be trying to drop my CO2 levels during the night, that is my head start for the next day for whatever remains in the water column.


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Thanks for the compliment!
> 
> I always hope to let others know what I am trying and why.
> 
> ...




So to put in simple terms for someone like me basically the o2 bubbles from the airstone get dissolved into the reactor the same way the co2 does. Man that is genius. I can definitely see the benefit with that. To handle my o2 situation since I run 45ppm of co2 is just have two powerheads that hit the surface. One on each end of the tank. They run 24/7 that way there is plenty of o2 and yes you are right at night the plants do uptake o2 as well. So something like that would be perfect to run at night. 


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## Dman911 (Nov 24, 2016)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Good Evening All:
> Happy Memorial Day!
> 
> FTS from just now, Vortex made a difference.
> ...


I agree good levels of o2 are better all the time but just had 1 thought on trying to inject it. o2 is much harder to dissolve in water than Co2. Are you planning on injecting pure o2 or just natural air? I'm curious as to weather the dissolution rate would be worth it since it is much harder to dissolve and may just end up accumulating as large bubbles in the reactor. I have also read about issues of micro bubbles being cause for concern but have also read some supporting articles of it being false. I'm very curious as to how this turns out and will be paying attention. I hope I'm not coming across the wrong way here, this just really peaks my curiosity. Have you ever thought of injecting o2 24/7 and co2 during the photoperiod since they are independent of each other? 

Love the tank btw.

Dan


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Thanks for the posts and the interest!



clownplanted said:


> So to put in simple terms for someone like me basically the o2 bubbles from the airstone get dissolved into the reactor the same way the co2 does. Man that is genius.


Simple terms you are no different than me.
I have no degree in this, it's just a hobby and I'm trying to think outside the box.
No air stone involved just a "T" and check to the input to the bubble counter.



Dman911 said:


> I agree good levels of o2 are better all the time but just had 1 thought on trying to inject it. o2 is much harder to dissolve in water than Co2. Are you planning on injecting pure o2 or just natural air?
> 
> I hope I'm not coming across the wrong way here, this just really peaks my curiosity. Have you ever thought of injecting o2 24/7 and co2 during the photoperiod since they are independent of each other?


78.09% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon, 0.04% carbon dioxide, and small amounts of other gases, so it will just be plain old air.

Not the wrong way at all, who knows your contribution to these posts may change my experiments for the better.
Can't see using air during the photoperiod, if all this pearling takes place isn't the water column already saturated?

I don't have any little air pumps, will need to get one but will borrow one from another tank to test.
Can this cheap little air pump handle check valve and bubble counter and get into the reactor?
How many bubble counters can I feed.
Thought of compressed air in a tank but it is dirty and not worth the risk of oil passage, coalescing filters, sanitary air filters, oil separator etc... 
Micro bubbles a little burp, I'll just slow down the bubble count.
A new experiment!:grin2:


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## Dman911 (Nov 24, 2016)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Thanks for the posts and the interest!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good point on the saturation during the day. As for the air pump I think its going to depend on the pump and type of check valve. I gave a friend a dual output fusion 700 air pump and connected it to a penn plax lok-tite gang valve, each output to each side of the gang valve and ran 1 line with a cheap marina check valve to a 10" airstone. The air stone was only pushing bubbles out almost half of the stone so I though the pump blew a diaphragm. After taking it apart and inspecting there was nothing wrong with it. I removed the check valve on a hunch and the airstone was pumping out bubbles from one end to the other so I think the biggest fact will be the type of check valve used. 

Dan


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Thanks for the posts and the interest!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Was long day yesterday. Did not mean air stone meant air pump lol.

Bump:


Dman911 said:


> Good point on the saturation during the day. As for the air pump I think its going to depend on the pump and type of check valve. I gave a friend a dual output fusion 700 air pump and connected it to a penn plax lok-tite gang valve, each output to each side of the gang valve and ran 1 line with a cheap marina check valve to a 10" airstone. The air stone was only pushing bubbles out almost half of the stone so I though the pump blew a diaphragm. After taking it apart and inspecting there was nothing wrong with it. I removed the check valve on a hunch and the airstone was pumping out bubbles from one end to the other so I think the biggest fact will be the type of check valve used.
> 
> Dan


This is a good point. Wonder how much psi they can do? So I have a tetra 50 air pump that I use to use. I had a T connector that pushed it to two airstones. I noticed one of the airstones it just would not get that much bubbles. I would even swap out the airstone positions and the same thing would happen. They are just weak it seems. Like you nothing was wrong with the pump just meant for only certain amount of psi which I doubt would be able to push through a check valve and bubble counter. I am sure there are stronger ones out there that could??


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Maryland Guppy said:


> SPDT = Single pole double throw relay.
> When on during shall we say CO2 time the N/O contact on the relay turns on the normal coil we all use on our CO2 rig/setup.
> When the relay switches off N/C contact to turn on an air pump with a check and flow control to provide atmospheric air to the bubble counter.
> This would not put bubbles directly into the tank but use the same reactor as the CO2.
> ...


I'll be honest, I'm not sure why you would do this. 

When you use an air stone to aerate, the bubbles in the water column have nothing to do with providing oxygen. It's when the bubbles hit the surface that the gas exchange occurs. Basically releasing carbon dioxide and picking up oxygen. The oxygen isn't supplied by the bubbles, it's drawn from the air. 

I just think you may be searching for a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Run an air stone overnight and your water will be pretty much saturated with all the oxygen it can hold.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

@Greggz I'm not trying to remove CO2 at all just to add some oxygen when lights are out.

Yeah I know air has a lot more than just oxygen.
10-15 bubbles per minute, I don't know.
I have access to oxygen but not of a sanitary grade.


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## FishEggs (Mar 19, 2017)

Greggz said:


> Run an air stone overnight and your water will be pretty much saturated with all the oxygen it can hold.


But where's the fun in that?:nerd:


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Maryland Guppy said:


> @Greggz I'm not trying to remove CO2 at all just to add some oxygen when lights are out.
> 
> Yeah I know air has a lot more than just oxygen.
> 10-15 bubbles per minute, I don't know.
> I have access to oxygen but not of a sanitary grade.


Not suggesting you are trying to remove CO2. 

I just don't think injecting air into a reactor will increase your oxygen level at all, while more surface agitation or aeration will do it quite well. Maybe some other internet poindexter can chime in here with their theories.

Anyway, good luck with the project and the mad scientistry!:grin2:


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

I will try a Petco cheapy this weekend and see what it does.
Get a relay from work and small electrical box to hold relay and mount two plugs.

Good Evening All:

Came home to a dead 3watt LED in a puck on my 70.
Flickering yesterday and dead today.
I was always told when LED's fail they will short out.
Then all current distributed to what is left that still illuminate.
Every failure I have had just dims the entire puck to a moonlight strength.
Go figure!!!

Checked macros real quick this evening.
25ppm NO3 & 2ppm of PO4.
I think the up in PO4 has already eliminated some algae.
Some plants are a bit cleaner.

Shrimp update too:
I believe they have figured out they have no predators.
3 were swimming around during prime light time.
I hope there are still 5 in there?

Needed to skim about a gallon or two today.
Slight bit of surface scum was present.
Maybe because of macro dosing yesterday, not sure.

I need to trim a few plants but am reluctant to do so.
Just don't want to disturb the process so early.
Riccia is taking off so within 5 or 6 weeks I think the little grass façade for the front of tank should be a win.

All of the narrow stellatus that I have been able to easily kill in the past is growing quite well.
A few stems have just continued to grow straight up.
Most are branching out with 3-4 extras at the top nodes.

Ammannia (Nesaea) sp. Red is growing roots about 1/3 from the top.
New leaves are growing everyday too.

The failure is the green cabomba, it was extremely algae ridden and has shown no growth as of yet.
The tops were nice but really have not taken off yet.
I will wait before I trash them but they are being shaded now.

The "white rotala" that was asked about has pinked up a bit.
Seems to have found it's way to the puck directly above it.

In a few more days I will need 2 plant ID's, I'm hoping someone can help!

Night All:


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Good Evening All:

Upping PO4 to 2ppm has truly made a difference!
Algae has diminished, staghorn is smaller on older plants, glass is also ultra-clear.
Had to skim again today but not like the first 3 weeks.
Seems like the addition of any ferts brings this on.
A very immature tank though, just under a month now.
Makes me think the 10:1::NO3O4 ratio is bogus.

Blue shrimp are moving around a bit more too.

Really need to trim a few plants but I am just holding out.
Several have reached the surface or at least almost.

The monster is growing!

Night All:


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

*Journal of My 80 Gallon Tank*



Maryland Guppy said:


> Good Evening All:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




You know that's interesting you also noticed a difference. For me when at higher phosphates the algae almost diminishes. I also notice a difference between 1 and 2 po4. With 2 compared to 1 everything just grows better and not the algae. The sweet spot seems to be 30ppm nitrate and 2-3ppm phosphates in my 60


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Good Morning All:

Late night for me here!
Went by the LFS earlier this eve.
Got 1 bunch of Macrandra and 2 chunks of blyxa aubertii.
B.aubertii really turned into 3 after divided and macrandra was about 13 stems after trimming.

Need to make room for this too.

Pulled 1 stem of L.cuba and it produced lots of substrate bubbles and a very small cloud from the soil below.
Had to do it, it started growing above the water's surface

Collectoritus is a problem for me!

I need to get a package of plants ready to sell.
Tank is rather heavy @ this moment.


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## johnson18 (Apr 29, 2011)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Pulled 1 stem of L.cuba and it produced lots of substrate bubbles and a very small cloud from the soil below.
> 
> Had to do it, it started growing above the water's surface



This is the issue with stem plants and dirt tanks. The constant pulling of bottoms & replanting of tops creates breaches in the cap allowing soil to escape. It can become an issue, especially in a shrimp tank. You will get better at removing plants while not releasing soil as time goes on. 

As far as the bubbles go, I would suggest using something like a chopstick to poke down into the soil layer & release any trapped gasses. It took about three months worth of stabbing my substrate to get to where there wasn't the regular release of gas. Even three years later I still see gas bubbles from within my substrate on occasion. 

Chopsticking my substrate was a bit of a chore those first few months but I'm still impressed with my soil capped substrate! I recently read several posts suggesting that MGOPM substrates will be totally depleted of nutrients & no good after one year. The majority of these comments came from people who had no personal experience with the method. While I do add root tabs in key areas a couple times a year, my plant growth is still quite impressive. 

Ok, enough off topic commenting! 



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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

No issues pulling stems and no real release of dirt.
But once I touched it several hundred bubbles escaped.
Nothing is ever released during non peak times.
Let the CO2 kick on and the lighting ramp up it starts to happen.

If it lasts a year I will be happy and do it again.
I was expecting every 6 months, but it's cheap to replace.

The growth is outstanding compared to any of my other substrate experiences.
I do keep certain fert levels in the water column but by all means not an EI dosing schedule.

I didn't get the organic type, tractor supply did not have it.

Does the organic have all the bark and mulch in it too?
Half a bag was lost to the trash due to the bark etc...


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## mbkemp (Dec 15, 2016)

The organic does have bark


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Good Evening All:

Trimmed and replanted a few more stems here and there.
Soon will be a major trim and serious thinning of some plants.
I think I can pull off this dirt thing without a lot of mess.
Pulling stems does take a bit of work, one can't just yank them out.

About ready to trim the riccia again and start some more mesh growing.
I think the green façade across the front will really add to the appearance.
It will end up looking like a 2" tall hedgerow right up front.

The only plant failure so far has been green cabomba.
It was cropped to very short stems just like the ambulia.
This was due to algae introduction in the new tank.
The row has just not really taken off at all.
I will leave it for now and the upcoming trim will cut back on shading.

Wallichii has grown over an inch on several stems.
Emersed plants are transitioning kind of okay???, I guess.
Stellatus, S.Bihar, rotalas, and many others are enjoying the capped soil.
The years of not using capped soil till now has really changed my opinion.
I will need to begin preparing more of my soil mix for other tanks.

Willow hygro (3 stems) is in the back and not doing much either.
It has grown about an inch with many new sprouts at the substrate line.
In my no water change 70 gallon the stalks are almost as round as a pinky finger.

Lost 1 stem of Nesaea(ammania) sp. red
The stem disintegrated to like a single thread??? I don't know.
In previous tanks it would grow new stems @ each node, but all green.
Now, new growth is all red with roots protruding from the bottom of new growth.

Blue Buce is at least growing 1-2 leaves per day somewhere in the patch.
Green wavy has melted from my algae treatment pre-new tank.

Some pygmy chain sword that is no longer a pygmy?
New growth is over 6" long and very bright green but no runners.

Algae: another story, since I have upped water column to 2ppm of PO4?
Algae is greatly depleted/receding, plants seem to be cleansing themselves of old algae.
Glass needs a clean about every other week, the cleaning removes very little.
Diatoms for a new tank basically do not exist, which is a win.

Unchanged photoperiod, scared to touch it when things are going well.
6.5 hours full light and I don't remember the ramp up/down length.

Night All:


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Come on now, we've been through this before...........Pics???


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

So you doubt me again!:grin2:
It is late pics may have to wait till tomorrow.

I'll try and get some now if AF on phone cooperates.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

FTS from this evening.









Caught a blue shrimp out and about.









Another screen of riccia going nuts









Some japonica with lots of new growth.









Pygmy that is not so pygmy any more.









Macrandra new edition, still transitioning.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Good Evening All:

Been on a small vacation with horses @ camp.
Great fear after reading @Greggz algae outbreak after vacation.
Although his algae had a cool look to it.

My vacation extended weekends include checking CO2 bottle.
Fert dosing, not extreme but slightly higher levels.
No feeding of fish(other tanks), there is lots for them to pick at.
All has been well for years now.

FTS from this evening.
Not quite the whole tank but most of it.









It is a jungle in there right now.
I need to trim short and become more organized.

No more skimming of the surface is required even after dosing.
Clear water now @ all times.
Who would have thought with capped Miracle-Gro(6 month rated potting mix) dosing would be needed so soon.
PO4 is now around 2ppm(very steady) but NO3 is falling after 2-3 days.
Micros are just dosed almost EI every 2 weeks.
WC's are not right now, just top-offs since TDS drops rather quick.
CO2 I have no idea and pH measurements have been wonky.
Plant are pearling all evening, not extreme but pearling with 100 PAR @ substrate.
I have refrained from turning up the lighting.
Glass is clear and existing algae from introduced plants has diminished.
Staghorn cannot be found and rough plants are now clean.

Plant growth has been almost extreme.
The 4 day vacation is showing 3" on some stems.
Lots of rough plants went into this tank, algae ridden.
They are recovering with good new growth, some quicker than others.

Livestock: blue shrimp are really hard to find(only 3 @ a time).
12 feeder ghost shrimp (who knows they are even harder to spot).
Snails are off the hook but keeping things clean I suppose.

Night All: I am very tired from the extended weekend and eye lids are heavy.


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

Looking really. If yours is a jungle mine is a jungle times ten. Plants are now growing out the tank since I put off a week of trimming. 

Wanted to add it seems when using soil in a tank it cuts the nutrient life in about half from what I have seen. This is true of the osmocote also since these are based on being used not under water. 


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Evening All:

Still exhausted from the weekend and the D.C. commute.
Wanted to share some ideas though before I forget them.

Capped Soil:
I can't imagine this not being a win for just about anyone.
Plants root and adapt super quick like nothing I have ever seen.
BDBS is also a really tight cap not letting the soil release everything into the water column all at once.
Almost immediate dosing was required but not @ EI levels.
Just to keep water column primed with compounds.
I'm sure root structure is using the soil but water column is most likely just as important.
I notice a constant decline in TDS which is regulating my dosing.
Water changes so far have only been replacing the skimming operation.
Now that skimming has ended I'm thinking 20% every 2 weeks(15 gallons).

Lighting:
7 pucks over 8 square feet of tank.
The deficit and loss of a puck is right where the corner filter resides.
My thoughts are 100PAR @ substrate should grow most all plants quite well.
All of my pucks are independently adjustable.
1/2 of tank is @ 100PAR where most demanding plants are.
Some of the more demanding plants could use higher lighting.
I refrain from turning it up though(algae farm fear).
Wallichi on that side has grown over 3" with bright pink growth.
1/4 of tank has some lower lighting requirements based on previous growing observations.
This area has 80PAR @ substrate.
These plants are also fine.
1/4 near corner filter has 60PAR @ substrate.
This was reserved for Buce and some other lower light species.
Previous experience showed BBA on Buce that I have been trying to avoid.

Plants:
The terrible algae ridden plants I started this tank with???
Over this short month of time have actually cleansed themselves of algae.
I am shocked by this, some plants were really bad.
My worries included algae plaguing the rest of this new tank.
Staghorn is all gone, BBA I trimmed it all off but lets be real some made it's way to the new tank.
Diatom's never happened at all!
I am dealing with no algae for a change, not even on the glass.

Inverts:
Shrimp have not died?
Snails are having a blast though!

CO2:
I have not really measured although I should.
Pearling yes, consistent and not extreme.
pH, ah who knows?
Reactor releases no bubbles and BPS is about 3, very small bubbles.

Results:
No changes to anything, not until I have all levels recorded, including pH.
Capped soil with BDBS eventually in all tanks for sure.
I am not changing anything @ this point, running too well.

Experiment continues!

Night All:


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## sdwindansea (Oct 28, 2016)

I hope you got rid of the BBA. I've been struggling with it for months. It is not bad but I stay on top of it also. H2O2 and metracide help but have not eradicated it.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Some trimming and pulling of stems this evening.
I am very patient when pulling stems as to not break the BDBS cap.
Takes some tugging and time, but all is well.

The root structure using the capped soil is extreme.
Looking back @ inert substrates and even SafeTSorb there is no comparison.
All plants grow a healthy amount of roots now, reaching for all they can get from the soil.
I envision capped soil in all my tanks for the future.

WC this evening, 10 gallons at a clip for now.
Macro dosing 15:3::NO3O4 as needed only.
Micro dosing once per week and I'll need to figure the amounts.
Increase of PO4 has really cleaned imported plants in this tank.

Night All:


----------



## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

*We Have a Floater*

Good Evening All:

Riccia will need trimming and new mesh to continue the grassy façade in the front of the tank.








This clump and mesh eventually reached the surface this evening.
Clump is about 2.5" tall and a brilliant green color.
Go figure that all shrimp cling to the bottom of it!:grin2:

All pearling on this stuff is not released it just clings on like glue.

3 pieces of mesh to trim in the morning should be enough to complete the 4' frontage of the tank.
It will look sad for a week but the results will look cool.

Trimmed some plants today to share with a friend.
Never would know I trimmed anything though!

LFS posted on FB that they have received a large plant shipment.
Me, being a collector, I will stop by there in the am for sure.
Last time $5 got me a bunch of narrow leaf stellatus and it has taken over more than 1/8 of the tank.
$5 bunch of wallichii has all grown 3" or more with many side-shoots.
Need to get soil in the other tanks for the extreme growth-rate.
This tank will never be organized @ this rate.
My Dutch ideas are all swirling down the pipe right now.
But I enjoy it!

Night All:


----------



## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Good Evening All:

Happy Father's Day to those of us with children!
The kids bought me a T-shirt says Grandfather instead of Godfather.
Themed on the movie cover. Pretty slick I'll say.:grin2:

1/3rd of an FTS this evening.









Trimmed riccia today and got 4 more 6" long screens from trimmings.
In 2 weeks next trimming will finish the front of the tank!
Some tissue cultured H.pinnatifida rescued from PetSmart 2 weeks ago is up in front.
In will need to be moved but made a massive turn-around from when discount purchased @ under $5.
It was old and brown at some stage of meltdown.

Pulled some and planted some today.
LFS got me for $9, 2 unidentified plants.
I need some help with this one, they know nothing!

ID #1
These stem were about 20" tall, short ones are in this tank.
Growth more like ammania golden, but resembles a rotala species???










ID#2
Reminds me of a luwigia needle leaf maybe???
Who knows!


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

*Journal of My 80 Gallon Tank*



Maryland Guppy said:


> Good Evening All:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Good stuff. Funny thing I got the same exact rescue plant from petsmart. Was also very brown and nearly gone. I also got it for $5. It made a great turn around and is doing great in my CRS tank. Check it out. Funny thing is I didn't know the name but it seems to be exactly as yours so now I know the name. [emoji4]. Let me know if it's not the same. 















One is now about 8" tall










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

#1 possibly Ludwigia Cuba??


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

clownplanted said:


> Let me know if it's not the same.
> One is now about 8" tall





Greggz said:


> #1 possibly Ludwigia Cuba??


 @clownplanted it is the same for sure.
Easily identifiable.
I have never been able to grow this until the dirted tank.
Emersed growth transitions poorly and no one sells submerged typically.
The TC has really took off this week with new leaves and additional height.
@Greggz it might be L.Cuba.
I have some L.Cuba that has not transitioned well so I cannot compare it yet.
If it gets any worse I will toss it.
The new stuff is already showing some growth, I will know soon.

Evening All:

Had to change out a puck this evening, a screaming fan issue.
Keeping a few extra pucks around makes the swap take 3 minutes and lighting back on.
The room is quiet again!

Riccia façade is already growing new growth, screen showing about 1/2" of new coming on.
This stuff is a weed in a high-tech tank and pearls like mad.

Algae has definitely diminished with the exception of some hair algae.
Only on emersed stuff that is transitioning poorly.
Small dose of excel yesterday evening following some toothbrush removal.
BBA that I introduced in this tank has basically dissolved away after the PO4 increase to 3ppm.
I don't see an algae battle in my future.:grin2:

I think this is almost the end of week 6 for the tank.
A major trim is in order very soon.
My strategy is removal of all stems that need it right to an extra container.
I can pull this off without breaking the cap.
Trim all pulled stems and just plant as new.
Hopefully it will slow things down a bit while growing new roots.

Livestock is still an undecided thing for me.
I imagine 100 blue shrimp would be needed to provide decent visible specimens moving around at all times.
This is rather expensive and I am a cheap SOB by all means.
Two of the blue dreams I have are berried now and I may just let them do there own thing.
It will just take a lot of time, I am patient so no worries and I have lots of time.
Sorry I meant lots of patience.

Snails are another story, while vacuuming changing 10 gallons of water yesterday yielded about 200 snails.
All dumped in the crapper and flushed, that high acid water will dissolve them in no time for sure!


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

FTS before the trim.









Cannot put off any longer, got to trim some of the jungle down.
Every P.Stellatus stem has 4-5 stem growing from different nodes.
A few items are hidden in the shaded area too.
Have some weekend time since rain and no camping.
I'll see how it goes and grab a pic when done.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Trimming? Done? No where near!
Pulling stems from capped soil is very slow.
Pulled about 80 stems, sold a bunch locally, came home with about 24 more!
At least it is less than I started with.
2 stem of mermaid weed that looks different shall we say.
12 stems of R.Nanjenshan, awesome looking pink tips and short.
10 stems of P.Erectus clean and pearling as I type.
Lots of weighted bunches right now.
Placement after the trim, need a better look for this tank.

I remember some one posting about R.Macrandra issues. Not sure whom?
I acquired some several weeks ago.
Just to share in the 100PAR area of the tank it is pink and very weak over-all aesthetically.
In the 80PAR area an extreme dark maroon color with no wrinkled leaves.
Just thought to share.

My wife officially thinks I am nuts now.
She noticed the DSLR camera on my tripod near the aquariums.
I really tried hard one evening several months ago to capture some descent pics.
The new cell phone is actually better than the DSLR. Go figure?

I have also given up the idea of introducing air into the reactor during non-CO2 periods.
I figure it is pointless since pearling is so prolific during the photoperiod.

Night All:


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## wastewater (Apr 5, 2010)

Maryland Guppy said:


> My wife officially thinks I am nuts now.
> She noticed the DSLR camera on my tripod near the aquariums.


:laugh2:I'm sure a lot of us can relate to that! Great thread (an enjoyable read). Very nice set-up with a diverse collection of well grown plants.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Plant weights are my friend right now.
Bunching together very gently and thinking about where they will be placed!
They are healthy and look great so no worries.

No breaks in the cap, got that stem pulling process down with no issues.

Riccia façade is growing well and enough has multiplied to finish now.

Hair algae is all gone.
That one standard dose of excel wiped it out about a week ago.
Found some more gibba crap hiding out and removed.

The plant salvage job worked out well.
Many stems were in bad shape when I started this tank.
All have self-cleaned themselves of algae and show improved growth rate.
I guess the moral is as many have said just concentrate on good plant growth.
CO2 is steady everyday, I'm guessing 20 or so ppm since pH meter has been acting strange.
Ferts are 2 macro doses a week about 1/2 EI levels.
1 micro dose per week .1 Fe from a PPS Pro micro solution with added Fe.

Ludwigia Cuba looks rough though, older leaves are filled with holes.
Not making the transition well at all.

R. Wallichii has doubled in size and almost reached the surface now.
This is a light hog, getting really red closer to the surface.

I am going to assemble a trim package to post in the near future.
It will be a smorgasbord of many varieties though.
I will miss them but cannot keep them all.
I hope there is some interest.

Still some trimming left in me this evening!:grin2:


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Evening All:

Pictures, I know!!!

Left Side:









Right Side:









The L.Cuba that has really taken a dump on me.









Ammannia Senegal is blending in from emersed growth.









R. Macrandra has taken on new growth and almost all red now.
Don't know if it really looks great but?









Still trimming, riccia façade is complete across the front now.
In about 10 days I can trim it all up even.

Night All:


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Evening All:

Had to hop on and mention something I just noticed.
Since I am trimming lots and plant weights are my friend right now!

I spoke of all the surface scum I was dealing with.
Seems that when no plants or a minimal amount of plants break the surface = no more surface scum.
This trim is going to be short for sure!


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## Dempsey (Oct 27, 2009)

Looking great! Maybe the plants were blocking the surface agitation?


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

Dempsey said:


> Looking great! Maybe the plants were blocking the surface agitation?




Yup for sure. Mine do that and also notice much less when they are not at the surface. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

I have never been afraid to do a big trim.
Healthy plants cut short always come back.

I introduced some nasty plant/stems into this tank originally.
Really I didn't realize how nasty they were until now(learning curve).
Had to let them go for a while though, but it was a good recovery.
BBA has basically melted away but a little hair algae presented itself.
Almost a self-cleaning event with introduced plants.
I feel this has forced me in to a big trim now that is hard to find time for.
I'm catching up now though using weights to bide some time.

It will look better with a bit more time.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Good Evening All:

Tonight I made my first "change" to this tank.
Upped the bubble count from about 1.5 to a solid 2 per second.
My bubble counter is homemade with a very small orifice.
pH probe is very unstable I will need to purchase a new one.
Feel like I am in the dark!

Going to trash the L.Cuba tonight.
The twisted stunted emersed growth is just taking up space.

I'm also trying to figure out why pygmy chain sword is not so "pygmy"?
This stuff has blasted off lately and is not a small plant any longer.

S.Bihar is in it's prime right now too.
Severely serrated leaves showing great submerged growth!

Yeah I know pics needed!
May not happen for a few days.
Off to camp tomorrow, my horse needs ride time.
No trimming today, got some new plants from a friend this morning.
Been on the tractor all day prepping an area for an aviary and a dog kennel.
Then I found the ground bees, go figure!

Night All:


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Good Evening All:

Trim is about 90% in this tank for now.
Few cleanup items left and nothing quite to the surface yet.
Still waiting for a few of the original planting to "clean up" shall we say.
Found some small balls of hair algae here and there in low flow areas.
I just removed and maybe one more half dose of Excel this week to finish it off.

I use the term "clean up" maybe I should explain.
Seems like putting some of the ratty mess I started with is self-cleansing.
Better lighting, better substrate, and my normal dosing(about 1/2 EI).
1/2 EI does not require me to change 50% water each week. I am lazy!
Old BBA has just melted away, sucking up many little bits with the vac during trimming.
GSA on plants, gone. It just disappeared with environment change.
Snail population has actually depleted also, just not sure how.
Glass has been super clean even, I run the wand through the front when taking pics to disturb the snails, very little algae to deal with.

FTS this evening.









Shot from the mid left side.









Hygro Sunset has to be my favorite plant in here.
Pics don't do it justice either, pink,yellow,green coloring on top leaves is awesome.









S. Bihar has extremely serrated leaf edges now.
Looking like it should.









I am going to buy two more frag tanks I think.
Get rid of the 75 and the 55.
8 square feet of planting area is really awesome.
Need to sell about 80 tri-color platties from one tank and 50 blue Moscow guppies from the other.
Will need to start building more LED pucks and 2 more canopies, and stands though.

I have a red-tail shark I think he will end being my only fish.
I may move him to my 80 this week.
He has never bothered shrimp so I think it will work.

Night All:


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Evening All:

Ammannia tips are growing well I think.









Caught a glimpse of one of the little blue buggers this evening.









Small myrio has cleaned itself up with a lot of side shoots.









Next to trim is wallichii, it is spread across the surface now.
Trimming will remove the trashy bottoms and it should be good then.

Night All:


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Big scare for me Friday evening.
Got home around 8:30 and flipped up the front lid on my canopy.
All kinds of water splashed into the tank from on top of canopy. 
Plumbing from above leaked around shower basin, ran down side of floor joist and was filtered through a ceiling tile to the top of canopy.
Seems as though nothing has been affected but time will tell?

My recent tank trim was passed on to someone local.
I'm not much into shipping, maybe I should change my ways.
If it was cooler weather maybe.
Gun-shy for me since I've received melted mess in the summer months.

Finally trimming wallichii this evening, got to finish soon for the morning commute.

Night All:


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

What's your co2 ppm at now since the increase? Have you taken measurements yet?


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Hope you get the plumbing issues resolved. Definitely not a good thing to have happen to the tank.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

clownplanted said:


> What's your co2 ppm at now since the increase? Have you taken measurements yet?


Best I can tell with pH meter on hand is about 26ppm of CO2.



Immortal1 said:


> Hope you get the plumbing issues resolved. Definitely not a good thing to have happen to the tank.


Mom lives with me now, 92 years young.
Fell in the shower and some water leached out to floor tile etc..
Mom is fine, was a little shaken up but not injured.
Hospital, x-rays etc, no broken bones. 
Plumbing is actually okay, everything now dry and all good.
Big scare for sure but all is well.


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Good to hear regarding your mom and the water issue!


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Here I am a few days after lots of trimming.









I guess it doesn't look like much is trimmed?
I'm getting better organized with this but many things will still need to be moved around in the future.
A work in progress, right?

I'm not happy with it though.
Too many of each species, leaving me with very little room.
Need to learn to sell and part with more I guess.
Great growth, capped dirt, steady CO2, and a light fert schedule have made this almost algae free.

This tank is a pleasure to work in since it is short, almost therapeutic for me.
Moving plants to the 55 & 75 is not so much fun, being so deep.
This brings me back to swapping out for two more 80G frag tanks.

My wife will most likely blow a gasket on this matter.
It won't be due to the cost, she just thinks I'm nuts.
In her eyes it's who has a fish tank with no fish?
How do you know the names and spelling of all those plants?:grin2:


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Here I am a few days after lots of trimming.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Would be killer make one of the 80's a all shrimp tank. If I was able to get another large one that is exactly what I would do. Maybe she would be cool with that?


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## Lingwendil (Nov 16, 2012)

I love this tank.

I definitely think I want to do a planted frag tank now, but with some small fish as well.


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## wastewater (Apr 5, 2010)

How is your tank progressing? Have enjoyed seeing this set-up transform from a fledgling idea into a full flight reality!


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Still going strong!


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## logarogers (Dec 5, 2017)

At some point when I get way more advanced, a tank like this is my dream. Amazing job man.


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## GMYukonon24s (May 3, 2009)

MG like you have stated I always find getting my hands/arms in the tanks or just looking at the tanks are relaxing and exciting. I always thought it was a pain to work in my 110g tall. Luckily I have long arms but it wasn't the easiest.


Anyways I love the tank!


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Trying some new pics from another linking method.
Here is a recent tank pic.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Finally some pics over here.......good to see.

And those plants look VERY happy!

Keep the pics coming.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

I just got caught up on this thread. Very nice work and progress from last year, great colors on the plants in the last picture too! Now where are you at today with this tank? End up with two more 80 frags? :wink2:


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## Daniil (Mar 23, 2011)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Still going strong!
> View attachment 797274



what kind of purple short plant is in the middle?
I like it a lot.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Grobbins48 said:


> I just got caught up on this thread. Very nice work and progress from last year, great colors on the plants in the last picture too! Now where are you at today with this tank? End up with two more 80 frags? :wink2:


Yeah come on Maryland Guppy, it's long past due that you updated your thread over here.

Now I know it could be quite a long novel, but maybe you can just give us the crib note version.:wink2:


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Daniil said:


> what kind of purple short plant is in the middle?
> I like it a lot.


Alternanthera bettzickiana
Not a true aquatic but one can get a 3-5 month run of it.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Greggz said:


> Yeah come on Maryland Guppy, it's long past due that you updated your thread over here.
> 
> Now I know it could be quite a long novel, but maybe you can just give us the crib note version.:wink2:


The 80G farm!









The plant density is off the hook!


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

OK now that wasn't so hard, was it!>

And boy those plants sure look healthy and happy. 

Beautiful pics!


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Wow that is quite the plant mass, and they all look really healthy. Very nice!


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Thank you for the compliments!

I'm not sure of the count now of how many species of plants.
5 new to me arrived yesterday.
I can grow well but my organizational skills are lacking tremendously.

Also embracing new species introductions and learning how they grow.
Just a nice way of saying "Collectoritis" >

Low maintenance tank for me.
Top off every 2 days and vac the sub every 6 weeks in the back of the tank.
The vac provides a 15 gallon water change every 6 weeks.

Front load macros now once per week with no accumulation @ end of week.
Some weeks require two weekly doses of macros.
Micros in this tank is still CSM+B & extra 10% Fe once per week.
Rolling my own micros but not in this tank yet.
Too many plants growing the right way and I don't want to change a thing.

Phish load is still the same 9 Cory's that keep my substrate agitated.

The work is that every other day I must trim @ least 6 species of plants in my 3 tanks.
If not overgrowth and shading become a problem.
@Greggz I hope this update is now adequate?


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Maryland Guppy said:


> @Greggz I hope this update is now adequate?


It's a good start.:wink2:


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

I didn't want to hijack another thread, so coming here to ask. How quickly/ slowly does you ludwigia peruensis grow? Mine seems to take an eternity, but grows solid roots.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Grobbins48 said:


> How quickly/ slowly does you ludwigia peruensis grow?


Average 1-2" per week.
I trim and only keep the tops @ 6"
Trash the bottoms unless nodes have sprouted.
Sturdy stalks on this one about 1/4" when mature.

Peruensis is just a fancy name for glandulosa.
3 variants of glandulosa I know of, most likely relative to the region it was collected.
Peruensis & "Diamond" are much the same plant.
A smaller leafed form can also be found but I can melt it away in 48 hours.

An excellent companion to peruensis is L.polycarpa.
The polycarpa has almost exactly the same structure but is orange/peach in color.
Extreme lighting and the effect is lost, it starts getting red.

Bump:


Grobbins48 said:


> End up with two more 80 frags? :wink2:


Not yet.
I'm thinking what I believe is a 135 gallon 72"x24"x18"
Really enjoy the 24" front to back of planting.
Don't like the wet armpits in too deep of a tank.
Due to the cost this will most likely turn into two of the frag tanks end to end on the same stand?


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

I guess this deserves the title of algae outbreak. :|

First a fan crapped out yesterday.
Kept hearing a wining noise from an LED dual puck.
One fan spinning loudly and the other not @ all.
Running them in series requires pairing them with a fan of similar resistance or one spins fast and one spins slow.
Cheap re-purposed from work, most fans I acquire already have 6-8 years of continuous duty.
They also must survive a hot water bath to remove sugars and debris.









Now the sad part.
Algae outbreak all due to collectoritis and heavy plant density with no space.










Phishless really has a few phish in the tank.










Ammania senegalensis, I still have 5 plugs of this left and it reaches the top regularly.
Not as flat as I'd like it to be but an aggressive grower.
If I remove it from the plug and put in the substrate the curling goes away.








@Greggz requested a journal update but it ain't too pretty.:frown2:
GHA & clado have been the main offenders in the plants.
Some of the oldest S.repens have a few tufts of BBA going on.
Spraybar was another story for the BBA, when flow is added BBA is very happy.

I believe phish food leads to algae to some degree.
Only feed 3 times per week with different high quality foods.

Been floating B.japonica for over 6 months overtop the buce area of my tank.
This was a complete accident but had no where to plant it.
It continuously sprouts new plants upside down and sends flowers to the surface.
This madness needs to stop soon!


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

"madness", lol, yes. Interesting note about the fans needing similar resistance when run in series. Something I would not have thought about.

So, you only feed the "one" phish 3 times a week - would not think it would matter if you fed him 3 times or 7 times per week. He can't eat that much :grin2:

Do have to admit, your "forest" definitely has a lot of good colors.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

Oh geez, now i know where my algae is coming from. Feed the cichlids 2x a day. When they stop growing i will reduce food.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Now the sad part.
> Algae outbreak all due to collectoritis and heavy plant density with no space.


I've wondered about this with your tank. I know if I let my tank grow too much, it seems to start choking on itself. Plants seem happiest with a little elbow room. Have you noticed a difference after a good thinning?



Maryland Guppy said:


> Phishless really has a few phish in the tank.
> 
> @Greggz requested a journal update but it ain't too pretty.:frown2:
> GHA & clado have been the main offenders in the plants.
> ...


So now you have some fish, feeding them, they create waste, and tank is thick with plants.

Just thinking out loud, but did you ever think about increasing the water change schedule? Filter cleaning schedule? Are you ever able to vacuum the substrate? 

Wondering if you've been on the same maintenance schedule for a long time, and now you are generating more organics? 

Just a thought.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Greggz said:


> I've wondered about this with your tank. I know if I let my tank grow too much, it seems to start choking on itself.
> 
> So now you have some fish, feeding them, they create waste, and tank is thick with plants.
> 
> Just thinking out loud, but did you ever think about increasing the water change schedule? Filter cleaning schedule? Are you ever able to vacuum the substrate?


Choking on itself is a fact.
Plant density can reach a painful state.
Sales posts I've been really slack on lately.
Been tossing lots of plants due to the shipping issues of too many boxes and people keep gifting me money and never sending a ship to address.
Tracking them down via email etc... after payment.

Feeding phish yes.
The 80G has about 12" worth of phish @ this time.
Liquid excretions from the phish are most likely instantly consumed.
This is most likely 65 or so % of their waste.
No contribution to NO3 that I have been able to detect to date.
Tank always falls toward PO4 deficient conditions.

I've upped the exchange of the Poret foam to every two months.
Vacuuming has occurred quarterly and includes the pulling of 25% of plants.

Planted density is a real problem now!


----------



## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Good Evening All:

The farm continues to grow, haven't sold any plants for a while.
All extras have went to the trash lately.

Trim a few plants every eve and feed the phish.
Lots of evaporation now that the furnace runs more frequent.

New project is building an aquarium controller.
A touch screen HMI and an Arduino micro controller.
Arduino programming no issues very similar to some controllers @ work.

Touch screen is another story:
To make nice looking screens and use transparent buttons and controls pretty much requires making screens in the evil PowerPoint.
All the controls within the program are rough, square, and text does not always display as desired.
Creating masks and crop images not so fun until you get a few screens behind you.
It is not a WYSIWYG type of program like @ the office.
But what does one expect with free software.>

I'm also looking for ideas to include in the project.
So far:
4 PWM dimming signals, ramp up & down are the same value + day/moon.
2 outputs for heater or chiller with temp sensor.
2 outputs for dosing pumps macro/micro to include calibrate and duration.
1 output for CO2 solenoid timed or pH probe input.

Thoughts?
Please comment.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Good Evening All:

So how does this go unnoticed?
In the corner and canopy closed, go figure.


















10 stems turn in to 30!









And to the trash!


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Funny how that happens... Look away for a few weeks and boom, plants everywhere 
"10 stems turn in to 30!" - can definitely understand that!


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## Ken Keating1 (Nov 22, 2017)

All you need is a trellis on the back wall!


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

My 80G tank is a mess.
I've ditched several species that have not been performing well.
There seems to be a trade off with lowering the KH?
Some species are way better and some are falling short.
Which is better, I can't say it just changes the game a bit.

Have a few plants ordered to arrive soon.
They are plants I've sold off over the past three years that I wish to try again in a lower KH water.

I keep a detailed journal regarding water parameters.
It also includes notes regarding particular plant species with their performance.
My personal notes are going to need some updating.

Custom non-chelated micro mixes seem to be a big win.
Even if not dosed daily the results are still better.
I target .3ppm Fe in the water column and it's working.

My issue is macro dosing which seems to flip flop from NO3 to PO4 being the deficient one?

LED's are another area of concern.
Building custom arrays, many of you are not doing this or have T5 lighting.
For me each dual circular array of 7 LED's include 6-15K, 6-Full spectrum, 1-royal blue, and 1-520nm green ran @ 52 VDC.
Tanks that omit the royal blue replaced with an additional 520nm green not only visually look better but are providing better plant growth.
Quite possibly green is more important than we think?

Good night All:
These moments of enlightenment take quite a while to procure.
Always holding back on changing the slightest little thing!

PS.
Still building an aquarium controller, yes it takes time.
Have learned that online pirates are not good to follow.
Forced me to write much code from scratch, nough said!


----------



## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Maryland Guppy said:


> My 80G tank is a mess.
> I've ditched several species that have not been performing well.
> There seems to be a trade off with lowering the KH?
> Some species are way better and some are falling short.
> ...


Interesting post MG, and your comment on trade offs. I've been changing my dosing and KH and have noticed some of the same. 

Some plants love it....others not so much. I'll update my journal with details.

I do have a theory that plants "adapt" to your tank conditions. They get used to what you are giving them, and sometimes have a bad reaction when you change things. Some will adjust to new the scheme, and others won't. 

The results of our plant swaps has illustrated that quite well. Some plants travel to the new tank and never skip a beat..........and others melt away in days. And some dwindle to almost nothing, then come back looking like a completely different plant. It's pretty crazy sometimes. 

And I am also thinking of trying some species I have failed with. Figure maybe new parameters will be favorable, and why not bang my head against the wall again one more time.:wink2:

I also have years of records and notes. It's probably the best thing I ever did. It's very interesting to go back through time and look at dosing, pics, and journal notes. I actually made graphs of my dosing over the past three years the other day, and it is pretty interesting stuff. 

And what is the stem in the post above that you turned 10 into 30??


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Greggz said:


> And what is the stem in the post above that you turned 10 into 30??


One of your favorites from Dutch, Ammannia Senegalensis.
Turned into a weed for me, I've distributed @ least 200 stems of it.
Not to say everyone can grow it but hoping that someone has made it happen.
I've sold it dirt cheap so others can @ least check it out.
Seems to go green for many, must be lower PAR.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Maryland Guppy said:


> One of your favorites from Dutch, Ammannia Senegalensis.
> Turned into a weed for me, I've distributed @ least 200 stems of it.
> Not to say everyone can grow it but hoping that someone has made it happen.
> I've sold it dirt cheap so others can @ least check it out.
> Seems to go green for many, must be lower PAR.


Aha, how is Dutch? Haven't checked in on him lately.

And Ammania and I have not got along too well so far. Seems to like soil. Vin had it growing like mad in that crazy tank he put together not too long ago. Soil substrate loaded with all kinds of stuff.

But who knows?? Keep me posted when you are selling it again, and I might just give it a try one more time.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

*Epiphany on Soil*



> Today "epiphany" carries a range of meanings, including "an intuitive grasp of reality," "an illuminating discovery, realization, disclosure, or insight," or simply "a revealing scene or moment."


So I have been using soil in the 80G since May 7th 2017.
Great results until October 2018, this is when tank started to get dirty and some algae outbreaks.
Easily cleaned up and back @ it twice now.

Feeling strange about it I've now got all plants in plugs for quick removal except for a few.
Thinking the substrate may be exhausted after that great 17 month run?
Ran the diatom filter with two charges of powder last night.
Added some BDBS since replanting and moving tends to remove some soil that I vacuum up when working.
All plants in a container for the past 24 hours, I decided to wait until this eve to put them back.

Came home to this this eve!

















Noticed these little mounds this morning and they have doubled since getting home from work.
Also while vacuuming the sub yesterday eve there are critters in the substrate.
Worms of about a 1.5" long variety, way to large for my small fish to tackle.
Another critter that can burrow rather quick too.
I don't have any mts in the tank either.

Now I'm @ a crossroad.
Do I re-soil this tank or straight BDBS?
This "hot" soil when on top of the substrate is an algae magnet.
Now I know where it comes from and flow always gets it to the back of the tank.

Any thoughts from others may sway my mind?

Plants have to go back in this eve, it will be quick they are all in ceramic plugs.
They can also come back out just as quick!


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

Maryland Guppy said:


> So I have been using soil in the 80G since May 7th 2017.
> Great results until October 2018, this is when tank started to get dirty and some algae outbreaks.
> Easily cleaned up and back @ it twice now.
> 
> ...



Your tank is a plant factory. Just use a sand substrate, and when you need soil, just plant things in pots. That way you can replenish the soil and try different formulas. You can also compare same species in sand vs soil and I bet growth will be the same most of the time.


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Maryland Guppy said:


> So I have been using soil in the 80G since May 7th 2017.
> 
> Great results until October 2018, this is when tank started to get dirty and some algae outbreaks.
> 
> ...



Get bigger Phish?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

ChrisX said:


> Your tank is a plant factory.
> Just use a sand substrate, and when you need soil, just plant things in pots.


It has been a plant factory for a long time.
I've enjoyed growing lots of stuff and a few that I cannot grow.
I don't get hung up on the failures, toss and move on.
Everything will not always like the soup I serve.

I like this idea!
I have a small pack of 20 of these miniature solo cups for just such purpose!
This will look like hell but???

This approach will prevent me from creating the Dutch fruit stand I've been striving for though.
But that's okay, maybe it's not the right time yet.

Tractor Supply tomorrow eve, 150lbs blasting sand it is!
Maybe 200 just in case.
Rain Saturday, aquatic plant club meeting, Sunday work at 11am WTH it may happen this weekend.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

vvDO said:


> Get bigger Phish


Sorry for spelling!


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

The little mounds of dirt are now everywhere, algae loves it too.

BDBS is here and I'm still not happy about swapping this out.
I've grown plenty in inert sub before but have enjoyed the "power" of the soil.
Fresh capped soil is easy for a year but with age comes little issues.
Still have another tank with soil but the 1 year mark is getting close.

Freed up today to make this happen.
Still sitting with a bewildered look! :|:|:|


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## Ken Keating1 (Nov 22, 2017)

ChrisX said:


> Your tank is a plant factory. Just use a sand substrate, and when you need soil, just plant things in pots. That way you can replenish the soil and try different formulas. You can also compare same species in sand vs soil and I bet growth will be the same most of the time.


This is a great suggestion, it's easy to implement and it allows one to do a side by side comparison, one plant it a pot, one plant without it in BDBS, and see what happens. Multiple comparisons would have to be done for consistency though, as I have small groupings of plants and some do great, whereas they'll be one in the group that just doesn't perform.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Maryland Guppy said:


> BDBS is here and I'm still not happy about swapping this out.
> I've grown plenty in inert sub before but have enjoyed the "power" of the soil.
> Fresh capped soil is easy for a year but with age comes little issues.
> Still have another tank with soil but the 1 year mark is getting close.


I am glad to see you trying BDBS. This should be very, very interesting.

I am really looking forward to following along and seeing how this goes.

But it's for selfish reasons. We really haven't been able to compare notes much, as our tanks have been SO different. I am very interested to see where this takes your dosing, and more importantly how it affects your plants. 

Keep the updates coming!


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Oh boy...


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

burr740 said:


> Oh boy...


Oh boy is right.
It was easy catching all of the plants, they don't move much.

Now on to the PHISH!
I have used every combination of exotic wording possible for the last hour and have only caught two Corys. :frown2:
Even a few new very interesting phrases.
The remainders will have to make it through the murky wrath that is about to unfold. >
Damn rasbora's are lightning fast. :|

Wish I was still Phishless! :crying:


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

I must say I am excited to see where this one goes with all the changes. Keep those updates rolling- and the pictures too!!!


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Drained, cleaned, H2O2 all glass and plumbing, and filled to temperature.
Now I have to adjust for phish happiness, too much RODI right now.
And of course pre-charge macros to my desired levels, micros will be tomorrow.

Finally caught all of the little buggers. (phish)
When the water got low I made a burm of sand and trapped them all in a corner.
Ironically I have 1 shrimp left, completely brown in color and no stripe on his back.

Also back to having hydra, little green ones this time.
Growing in the RO Brute can I filled 2 days ago.
I needed this water to refill the tank.

Another very enlightening discovery when I could view all my Cory's when the plants were out of tank and in the bucket.
They have learned how to tag team and pull snails from their shells.
Cory cats, The Assassins of the Deep!

I only feed every 3rd day, my phish are not starving.
All phish have actually been growing extremely well, C123's have doubled in size over the year, pandas are still small but have grown.
Rasboras & flame tetras have gotten quite large, they are both pigs and very quick.

I reckon I should determine the longevity of these phish to figure out when to recall the Boes! :grin2:

Off break now, time to prepare this water and go to sleep after I dump phish in.


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Those are some pretty intelligent corys you have there. And compliments on figuring out how to catch the rest of the phish. A challenge I hope never to have to do - but I will remember your technique.
p.s. guessing you have several years before the recall.


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## ReeferRob (Dec 24, 2018)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Oh boy is right.
> It was easy catching all of the plants, they don't move much.
> 
> Now on to the PHISH!
> ...



I wish I'd have seen this earlier, I'd have come down and helped you out some. I have HUGE nets that I use for jumbo marine specimens I have to catch up. I also have plastic bins for holding fish/coral/inverts during changes.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Evening All:
This is what was normally being sucked through my Poret foam in a 6 hour period.
All generated from the little mounds of soil rising above the cap.
Vortex still does the job! :grin2:









Adjusted water for GH & KH even within solubility limits and this took an hour too clear.









This is the remaining salvaged plants. Plus a few more in a bucket that I refuse to even acknowledge their existence this eve.


















And an overhead shot that didn't turn out too well of half of the tank.
Every looks cloudy but it reality it's extremely clear.
Quick cell pics and they are what they are, I'm not the type to try and pretty them up.









No phish issues everyone survived the murky waters.
Maybe, just maybe a real planting of the tank this week and all plugs get removed.


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## Ken Keating1 (Nov 22, 2017)

Wow MG, sounds like quite a busy day, but at least it's over!

What's the use for the PVC sleeves? Curious, as I've never seen these before.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Looks like a store I would like to go shopping at!!:grin2::grin2:


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Ken Keating1 said:


> What's the use for the PVC sleeves? Curious, as I've never seen these before.


They are actually ceramic but of PVC sizes !/2 & 3/4" respectively.
Wrap stems with foam and place in the ceramic plug to provide weight.
Typical vendor distribution method.


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## AguaScape (Oct 28, 2018)

Maryland Guppy said:


> They are actually ceramic but of PVC sizes !/2 & 3/4" respectively.
> Wrap stems with foam and place in the ceramic plug to provide weight.
> Typical vendor distribution method.


Once the roots are established, do you slip the ring off and remove it over the plant?


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

AguaScape said:


> Once the roots are established, do you slip the ring off and remove it over the plant?


It would probably damage the the plant pulling the ring over the leaves.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Good Evening All:

This eve's skimming provided a brown scum.
Thought I was some how precipitating Fe, not the case after testing.
Maybe just the plants ridding themselves of debris?

Plants are looking very well all things considered.
A bit of hair algae remnants and plenty of hydra but all in all it is better.
Still using some Excel as an algaecide to clean things up.


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## Ken Keating1 (Nov 22, 2017)

BTW, what weekly percentage WCs are you planning to use with the new substrate?>


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Estimated weekly WC = 12.5%


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Estimated weekly WC = 12.5%


MG I can convert that to 50% WC equivalent if you would like.


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## Ken Keating1 (Nov 22, 2017)

Greggz said:


> MG I can convert that to 50% WC equivalent if you would like.


I'm not sure if MG caught on to why I asked the question! I figured we aren't going to easily let him off the hook in the "Share your dosing thread" for his Post # 13.

Now we just need him to divulge his dosing rates!


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## tetra120 (Mar 21, 2008)

*aquarium controller thoughts*

Hello MG,



New project is building an aquarium controller. (Nice)

A touch screen HMI and an Arduino micro controller. (Perfect)

I'm also looking for ideas to include in the project. (OK)

So far: 

4 PWM dimming signals, ramp up & down are the same value + day/moon. (Enough, for ME)

2 outputs for heater or chiller with temp sensor. 

2 outputs for dosing pumps macro/micro to include calibrate and duration. (How about 4 outputs, KH/GH and ?)

1 output for CO2 solenoid timed or pH probe input. (Can you read the Co2 controller output?)

A web interface for data trends.


Great plant skills you have, need more phish though.
Allen


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Ken Keating1 said:


> Now we just need him to divulge his dosing rates!


My dosing is posted! >
@Ken Keating1
In the beginning, argh, wait, wrong story! :|
I started with PPS classic which turned into the PPS Pro method. :smile2:
It did not work, ran short on NO3 or PO4 consistently.
This created the need for extra bottled solutions of each plus the normal EI solution.
5 day testing allowed me to decide on NO3, PO4, or a double or triple EI dosage.
With an extreme amount of plants macros seemed very unstable.

Micros were another story.
I've always seen a consistent linear relationship in their consumption.
Very predictive, unlike the macros.
This led me to target .3ppm of Fe as an indicator in the water column.

This testing was done in a "Phishless" state for 1 year.
Only to learn and monitor what the plants consumed.




tetra120 said:


> Great plant skills you have, need more phish though.


Need more Phish? No not really. :laugh2:
If I had to do it over again I'd trash everything except for the Panda Cory's!
They have character and swim the entire tank. :grin2:
C123's are lazy, group and congregate on the bottom.

The aquarium controller will still need some time.
It is a slow project @ this time.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Controller update.



tetra120 said:


> New project is building an aquarium controller. (Nice)
> 
> A touch screen HMI and an Arduino micro controller. (Perfect)
> Touch screen being serial communication was a bit of a fight, solved now.
> ...


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Evening All:
Sooooooooooo I decided to change my signature pic today.
The Moscow guppies are long gone so a new pic was needed.

Eventually I'll figure out where to change the thread title too.


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

You are correct sir - growing is not that difficult ....
(for some, lol)


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

A close inspection while trimming this eve, tank has some algae going on.
Maybe all of the changes that happened so quick?
Going to use some Excel for a bit to try and cut it back.
Quickest growers show no sign but slower ones are taking a hit.

Still salvaging plants from buckets and containers even this eve.
Too much and toss in a bucket, so the sortation of this mess continues.
I like a bucket a week later, it forces me to trash a fair bit of plants and only keep primo items.

My Buce that took a hit is a tray of bare stems.
The rhizomes will prosper in the near future but I had a great display of these for some time.

Back to trimming!

Night All:


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

The Algae Bomb has hit!

Sheets of surface scum noticed late morning.:frown2:
Algae dots all over the glass, fuzz & hair on plants.:frown2:
Can't wait till lights on, I'm sure it will look worse then, only 1 more hour to go.:frown2:

Went and bought some API algaecide and made a bucket for a dip.
Tried a few bunches of plants and put back in the tank.
Very reluctant to actually use this in the tank, I have no shrimp but still.
Newest growth is clean and fast growers are clean but all old growth is terribly infected.
When lights come on I'll grab some fuzzy pics to share!:|

I've never worried about the algae outbreaks but this is bad, really bad.
So bad I almost have a fear of losing all plants, well except the tops.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Maryland Guppy said:


> The Algae Bomb has hit!


Uh oh! No one likes an algae bomb.

I was wondering how the plants/tank would transition. That is a pretty massive recent change, and guessing some plants don't like the boat being rocked. 

Hopefully it's temporary and things calm down quick.


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Maryland Guppy said:


> The Algae Bomb has hit!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Same exact thing happened recently in my 20L when I switched from aquasoil to BDBS, I also had stuff in buckets for 2-3 days, put everything back in... tank looked great to start then BAM! Got everything from dust algae to BGA then GSA, green water, and now dealing mostly with bba and the green fuzz. I kinda wished that I did not try to get rid of the algae in the first place and let the GDA do its thing. I believe I somehow while trying to treat one problem caused another and another.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Greggz said:


> I was wondering how the plants/tank would transition. That is a pretty massive recent change, and guessing some plants don't like the boat being rocked.





vvDO said:


> Same exact thing happened recently in my 20L when I switched from aquasoil to BDBS, I also had stuff in buckets for 2-3 days, put everything back in... tank looked great to start then BAM! Got everything from dust algae to BGA then GSA, green water, and now dealing mostly with bba and the green fuzz.


First dose of 4.5% dimethyliminoethylene dichloride, ethoxylate is done.
Every 3 days is listed on the bottle so I'm going to try this and see what happens.
Some say no problems with phish so we shall see.

The morning's water surface.









Skimming mess.









The Glass









The Plants









Pretty ain't it? :crying::crying::crying:


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Holey Smokes!!!

That surface scum is something else.

I thought this was going to be interesting. Look back at our plant swaps and how the plants reacted going from one tank to another (BDBS/Dirt). Some did well, others HATED the change, and melted in days/hours.

Now it's pretty much like you have moved ALL of your plants to a new tank. At least I am guessing that's the way they are feeling. I am guessing this might take some time to sort itself out, as everything transitions and finds a new balance. 

Have you thought about lowering the light level and driving the tank less hard for a bit? 

Looking forward to seeing where this goes from here. Probably some lessons in there, but not sure what they are yet.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

It was like an overnight bomb was dropped in the tank.
A little bit of hair algae but nothing out of the norm until this am.

The surface scum broke off in sheets but was very quick to clean up with the cup skimming.
Yeah it is a total overnight mess and the glass is speckled everywhere.
I have 6 gallons of fermented "hot" dirt ready for use but I'm going to try and not use it just yet.
The plant damage is just that damage, moving to dirt will not fix the damaged portion.

Light, ferts, CO2 etc... will remain unchanged.
Normal dosing, same lighting, same CO2 pH drop.
I have only ever had a 6.5 hour photoperiod anyway.

One dose of the algaecide has already provided a noticeable difference.
Water is clearer and some algae has broken loose and moving about.
Not knowing yet if I will follow instructions or up the dosing by one day.
Maybe a day early dosing with a larger WC prior to the dose???

Answer: Yes it is a major PITA.
It will make me better for the next catastrophe that I may face.

I've tried growing algae before, on purpose even.
You never end up with the algae you wish to experiment with!


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Wow. I dont understand how this even happens...

I bet an airstone would help a lot. Something about this just screams low O2.

I know you have an aversion to water changes but 2 big ones a week probably wouldve been good for the first month. Pretty good practice for any new set up. And/or anytime there's a big algae problem. The surface film alone indicates high organics. You could seal coat a drive way with whats in that bucket.

Algaefix will knock out hair types with a quickness. Anything else...not so much. After about two doses its done all its going to do. Oh yeah, it also eats up O2, one more reason to add an airstone.

Water change water change water change.....every other day for 2 weeks

Manual clean and prune - 70% water change - dose
Skip a day
Manual clean and prune - 70% water change - dose
Skip


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

This algaecide is pretty quick to show it self.
All algae is grey in color now only being a few hours later.
I decided to clean the glass and the "color" of the water now matches the lighting.
So far a positive as long as the phish don't kick the can!

I was very much not a fan of dosing this type of product.
Actually scared of even trying it in my tanks.
Will need a little more time to decide on further dosing.


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## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

I have these notes on Algaefix, but no idea where I found them:



> The active ingredient of AlgaeFix, Busan 77, is a surfactant. In more familiar terms, it's similar to soap; though this isn't a perfectly accurate comparison.
> 
> It alters the surface tension of water, and enhances its wetting properties. Both of these affect the exchange of gasses, water, and other chemicals transfer across semi-permeable membranes, like those that encapsulate cells.
> 
> ...


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

That water change-dose-skip-repeat suggestion was just for a couple of weeks to beat down the algae. It will do that, plants love water changes and algae hates them. Dosing after each one ensures you dont run out of nutrients doing all those WCs. Once the algae is on the retreat then you'd ease back into a more permanent routine.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Deanna said:


> I have these notes on Algaefix, but no idea where I found them:


Busan 77 = 4.5% dimethyliminoethylene dichloride, ethoxylate as I posted.
Dosed 1 dose but in two halves, phish didn't like it a whole lot but seem okay.



burr740 said:


> That water change-dose-skip-repeat suggestion was just for a couple of weeks to beat down the algae. It will do that, plants love water changes and algae hates them. Dosing after each one ensures you dont run out of nutrients doing all those WCs. Once the algae is on the retreat then you'd ease back into a more permanent routine.


Making RO water today for the 24 hour mark WC.
So this evening I'll do a WC around 6.
Fe is okay right now so I'll only need macros for this WC.
Swap out the corner filter foam too, I'm sure it's got a fair share of crap in it.

I'll grab a pic of the destruction when lights come on.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Remnants and Carnage


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Wow! And most of this happened over nite? Trying to figure out how that much hair algae could grow in that short of time. LOL, then trying to figure out how I could grow an entire tank of it  Well, in a spare tank sitting on the back porch of course. 

I have confidence you will win the battle and get things looking good again.


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

The good news it looks like mostly hair types and the Algaefix killed it.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Immortal1 said:


> Wow! And most of this happened over nite? Trying to figure out how that much hair algae could grow in that short of time. LOL, then trying to figure out how I could grow an entire tank of it  Well, in a spare tank sitting on the back porch of course.
> 
> I have confidence you will win the battle and get things looking good again.


Some of the fuzz on some leaves was noticed a day earlier.
Overnight and into next photo-period the glass was speckled, heavy surface scum and the fuzz seemed to have quadrupled.



burr740 said:


> The good news it looks like mostly hair types and the Algaefix killed it.


It is very dead and very grey @ this point.
Still a little bit of green in some dense plants.
Going to trim everything and get it much shorter and in more plugs.
Get it all spread out even before dose #2 in three days.
Not going to take any chances with this mess.
I'll be able to salvage just about all plants and will have to keep a few nasty tops till they grow up a bit more.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Well I changed about 30 gallons, almost 50%.
Cleaned reactor w/bioballs and a little bit more flow, it was not really dirty.

Swapped out my Poret foam in the corner.
It was extremely clean unlike when I had the capped soil.
Using the algaecide to clean the foam, WTH an extra use for this stuff.
Tried the vac on the substrate but it is just too new and nothing to pick up.

Purigen I removed a year ago but not for the reasons of others here.
With Purigen behind the Poret foam nothing ever made it to the Purigen.
6 months and the stuff would still be white so I use in other tanks without corner filter.

Regarding phish and this very destructive treatment, no casualties, seem content as always.
There is one lonely shrimp in this tank and regrettably, most likely, no more.
He's been a survivor so who knows?
Decided to just feed them this eve since all they got was "mustard gas" yesterday!

Plants are pearling like mad as always, bubbles getting hung up in the "grey" matter.
I've melted a lot of plants over the years testing chemicals/cleanup/dips.
Think they are all in good shape after treatment #1
Massive trim tomorrow eve, not in the mood this evening.
Such a huge environmental change has taken place and after some reading today this is not that uncommon.


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

That shrimp is probably dead meat. Ive seen it blow their guts out in five minutes, literally explode from the inside. One or two out of ten usually make it, so you might get lucky.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

burr740 said:


> That shrimp is probably dead meat. Ive seen it blow their guts out in five minutes, literally explode from the inside. One or two out of ten usually make it, so you might get lucky.


My heart will not be broken, but this one shrimp has survived all of the "hot" soil experiments to date!
He's been a trooper so far but I only see him during a major tank cleanup.
Maybe Davey Jone's Locker or maybe not! Who knows!

After feeding and very close to dimming to moonlight the tank's clarity is awesome.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

The "nuked" algae seems to be fading away on its own.
Corys seem to be helping scouring over the leaves.
NH3 reading a steady .25ppm with low pH who cares @ this point.
Corner foam is cleaned, this will be swapped weekly to remove all this mess.

Holding off on a second dose of this stuff.
Everything is growing, pearling, and sucking up nitrates especially.

Maybe some pics over the next few days I hope.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Be jealous of my dead pearling algae!


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Well there is much improvement.
Changing about 5 gallons per day including the surface skimming.
Surface film is less each day, trimmed about 6 species so far.

TDS is dropping daily but not as low as I want it yet. (190) GH still too high.
Nitrate & Fe consumption has not changed despite all of this algae mess.
Dead algae is releasing itself from the plants without intervention except for the species I trimmed.
Weekly swapping of corner filter foam will be a must during the cleanup.
Nothing ending up on the sub so it must all be making it to the foam.

No plant damage from treatment and no phish death has occurred.
Pogostemon species exhibit the normal survival mode after treatment as in stunt the top and make many more plantlets @ many nodes.
Fine leaved rotala species same principal, bend and every node starts a new stem.
Ludwigia species seam totally unaffected just "cleaned" up.

I'm going to do a second treatment but after more trimming and cleanup.
Would call it a maintenance dose after all this mess, maybe in a week.
Considering one treatment in my phishless tank too.
Plants in this tank are clean but corners of tank and sub have some GHA.

Some pics of the 80G this eve.
Still some grey dead algae but clearing itself up.
Most post the very best of their tanks and skip the worst.
Sometimes things happen so I'm sharing some of the worst too.
Stuff will happen or you've just not been doing this long enough!


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## AguaScape (Oct 28, 2018)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Most post the very best of their tanks and skip the worst.
> Sometimes things happen so I'm sharing some of the worst too.
> Stuff will happen or you've just not been doing this long enough!


TBH, the worst is more helpful than the best. We are all learning from each other, and seeing issues (and how those issues are resolved) helps much more than seeing peoples tanks in perfect condition.


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## shamrock62081 (Jan 29, 2006)

Appreciate your sharing your issues and tactical approach to resolution along the way. And with pics to boot!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

I started a thread once, something like show me your best algae.
Didn't go far, guessing others didn't want to show their worst and talk about how they corrected.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Maryland Guppy said:


> I started a thread once, something like show me your best algae.
> Didn't go far, guessing others didn't want to show their worst and talk about how they corrected.


Is this what you are looking for???:grin2:


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## Wobblebonk (Feb 13, 2018)

I have 2 more "clean" tanks with these guys and they breed far less prolifically than in this mess... so I mostly just leave it. Only water changes and feeding...


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## ipkiss (Aug 9, 2011)

Greggz said:


> Is this what you are looking for???:grin2:


Whoa. That's actually kinda.....

Pretty.


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## Ken Keating1 (Nov 22, 2017)

Wow MG, that algae is crazy on how fast it showed up, I wouldn't have thought it could grow so fast. Fortunately it looks like you're winning the battle. Very informative(and scary!) on how tanks can go from good to bad and back to good very quickly.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Greggz said:


> Is this what you are looking for???:grin2:


No, but I would have kept that one going for a while, interesting pic by far! :smile2:



Ken Keating1 said:


> Wow MG, that algae is crazy on how fast it showed up, I wouldn't have thought it could grow so fast. Fortunately it looks like you're winning the battle. Very informative(and scary!) on how tanks can go from good to bad and back to good very quickly.


Thanks Ken!

It went bad fast on the glass clear one day to speckled the next.
Plants had some going on and I dosed some heavy Excel doses so it seemed in check.
That final day it went mad, first time I ever worried about plant loss due to algae.
If the Lord is going to taketh please take the phish! >
Maybe I over-reacted, who knows.
Off to Petco for the generic Aqueon brand of AlgaeFix, it was much cheaper with same primary ingredient.
If one does not have shrimp I would highly recommend this product.
Phish were quite disturbed even in 2 doses to equal the full amount.
A product that is very potent and never to be overdosed unless plants only.
Can an overdose damage plants? I wouldn't try it by any means.
It's been 6 days now and the dead algae has pretty much been released from plants.

Being a grower for a few years now I opted not to change anything.
Kept lighting, ferts, minimal WC's at the norm, change nothing and see what happens.
Still seeing pearling, a decline in daily TDS reading, and a decline in Fe & NO3 which I use as the indicator elements/compounds for plant uptake consumption.

If something was really wrong I would expect to see TDS on the rise, Fe & NO3 uptake reduced and not as normal.
These items did not change.

After some reading on the web from others, maybe this was the huge environmental change I had just put all of the plants through by removing the soil capped substrate?


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## Ken Keating1 (Nov 22, 2017)

Great write up MG. 

I'm thinking the substrate change removed a lot of the BB, fish and plants went back in, the ammonia levels rose just enough to cause plants to melt releasing a lot of organics and algae went boom. I wouldn't think the substrate change in itself caused plants to melt, it seems stems plants are hardy, we all cut the bottoms off and the tops continue grow just fine. But that's just a hunch on my part, there could be a lot of other reasons behind the bloom.

Thanks for posting what you dosed to stop the algae, I've copied and put it into a note spreadsheet for future reference; hopefully I won't have to open the spreadsheet, but in this hobby one never knows!


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Ken Keating1 said:


> Great write up MG.
> 
> I'm thinking the substrate change removed a lot of the BB, fish and plants went back in, the ammonia levels rose just enough to cause plants to melt releasing a lot of organics and algae went boom. I wouldn't think the substrate change in itself caused plants to melt, it seems stems plants are hardy, we all cut the bottoms off and the tops continue grow just fine. But that's just a hunch on my part, there could be a lot of other reasons behind the bloom.
> 
> Thanks for posting what you dosed to stop the algae, I've copied and put it into a note spreadsheet for future reference; hopefully I won't have to open the spreadsheet, but in this hobby one never knows!


Can't be ammonia, tested for 1st 5 days @<.25ppm and tested it every time I was testing for nitrate uptake by plants.
Had 1 false positive test but it was a contaminated test tube.

Organics, I couldn't say and TDS was always dropping.

No plant melt, crypt didn't lose not 1 leaf!
Plants all became covered in algae, not only did it look bad but that much surface area of the plant gets covered and photosynthesis has a hard time working.
This leads to a rotting stem with only a new top that has a hard time growing.

What I believe to be the real reason.
Using an excerpt from Dennis' website and also found in many other locations.



> Plants will reprogram their enzymes to make the best use of current parameters.*The waste proteins are then ejected directly on the leaf/plant surfaces; this organic waste becomes the signalling mechanism for algae to spawn. The same thing happens when water parameters or nutrient availability fluctuates in a big way.*


My plants went from growing roots through a plug and tapping into fertile "hot" soil and water column dosing to *just water column dosing with an inert substrate*.

Now do I believe everything I read, absolutely not! :grin2:
Initially I believe nothing unless I find more articles that describe similar conditions.

Did nutrient availability fluctuate in a big way, Yes!
Can proteins etc..be ejected/found on plant leaves surfaces, Yes!
Is this what happened in my tank?
Not sure but it's a good story to tell! >


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Maryland Guppy said:


> What I believe to be the real reason.
> Using an excerpt from Dennis' website and also found in many other locations.
> 
> My plants went from growing roots through a plug and tapping into fertile "hot" soil and water column dosing to *just water column dosing with an inert substrate*.
> ...


MG I tend to agree with this theory. 

I believe plants get settled in and make the best of what you are providing. Rock the boat too hard and the system is shocked. So then they need to reprogram everything and get settled back in again.

It's very similar to what we have seen when a plant went from one our tanks to the other (dirt vs BDBS). Some made the transition, some didn't. We have even seen some morph into a very different looking/sized plant in their new environment. 

I think the lesson there is that it is best to make changes slowly when you can. Whenever I make a change, I phase it in over time (kind of like what you did with KH). Gives the plants some time to slowly adjust and avoid the shock.

And glad to see things are calming down a bit. I'm really looking forward to seeing where things go from here. Very, very interesting transition, and I am sure more interesting things to follow.


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## Ken Keating1 (Nov 22, 2017)

Maryland Guppy said:


> \
> Not sure but it's a good story to tell! >


I definitely think your story is better than mine!


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Ken Keating1 said:


> I definitely think your story is better than mine!


Just a theory on the root problem.
Better to lay it all out there, people comment or ask questions.
I provide answers and provide details.

The scary part would have been if the plants didn't clean up with the algaecide.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

No work in the tanks today. Brief posts throughout the day.

Wife had me outside, removing a stump, grading near the field (about 6 tons of excess dirt so far), metal grating over a grease trap (prevent my grandson from taking a dive), cutting up limbs in the rear yard, jump start 2nd tractor (sitting all winter), firing up the burn barrel for a spell. This will all continue into tomorrow. I will be making RODI water while working outside though.

Yesterday 76°F, today 45°F with 28mph winds, wrong cup of tea for me! :grin2:

I did spend about 30 minutes in front of the tank this eve.
Just observing the plants and I will need a second algaecide treatment.
I feel that the plant density is too great and even though the flow for the tank is adequate it's not enough for the amount of plants contained within.

Don't read me wrong on this, plenty of growth with pearling.
Still have green hair type algae, no where near as bad but a second treatment will knock it down.
It's not even worth a pic but I'd rather have it gone for good.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

I know others have said this, but thank you for sharing the details of this experience! It is quite the interesting read, and even though this is likely not the most enjoyable experience for you it does a great job painting a picture of parts of the hobby that can get people down and want to leave. You are really showing people that things ebb and flow, and that even massive problems can be overcome with patience and a plan-- and a plan that can be adjusted and you lean more!

Anyways, nice work, and can't wait to see the continued progress!


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Here is a pic of the rotala sp. H'ra
Algae covered it and the stems went horizontal within a day.
Is this a sign of self-propagation mode from this plant.
Now I'll have 50 stems of this in no time.









My thoughts on the need of a second treatment come from viewing things like this.
Maybe flow was a little weak in areas and some hair type algae remnants remain.
There is a big difference in the cleanliness of these two pics.









Seems like the algae bomb brought out a survival mode in some of the Pogos too.
They are all sending out new plants @ several nodes.
Will try and get a pic of this behavior too.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Morning All:
Most plants are reaching the surface, nothing seems stunted.
Still a bit of algae in a few places.

Surface scum is slowly fading away.
The ambulia that stunted was not the smoking gun.
Need to pull the peruensis and see if the bottoms have went to crap.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

One algaecide treatment seems to have done the trick.
I'm holding off on doing a second dose for now even though I have spoken about it.
@Greggz the only plant not liking this substrate change so far is S.repens.
It has not melted away but it is surely not what I was growing before.

Captain Immortal the atlantis seems fine, 5 little stems in a plug aiming toward the light.

Some stems prior to the algae outbreak from @Bartohog all survived and are growing crazy big now.

Even ammannia senegalensis has not missed a beat during this mess.

During this algae outbreak I seriously neglected my 33G grow out tank.
All ferts bottomed out in this soil tank and the growth went crazy.
I've brought both macro & micro up to my liking and slowed things down a little.
I know that doesn't sound right but it worked.

Some hydrocotyle tripartita japan and riccia has to go soon.
It has reached an unmanageable state.

Will get some pics over the weekend for sure! :grin2:


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Maryland Guppy said:


> One algaecide treatment seems to have done the trick.
> I'm holding off on doing a second dose for now even though I have spoken about it.
> 
> @Greggz the only plant not liking this substrate change so far is S.repens.
> ...


My S. Repens hates BDBS - the roots are so long and deep and it still just looks stunted and sad lol. 
It used to have longer lovely leaves that would reach up and then flatten out throughout the day.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Good Evening All:

An update for some of you.

Pogostemon yatabeanus a unique shade of green!









Rotala rotundifolia is kicking it okay.









Eichhornia diversifolia has fully recovered and the nodes are getting way closer together.









Left third of the farm not looking too bad. @Greggz notice the Bihar growing roots into the filter foam upper left.









Ludwigia atlantis @Immortal1 right in front of hydrothrix gardneri @Chlorophile.
Sorry meant to be Captain Immortal! 









Ironically the atlantis looks a lot like the ludwigia broadleaf in place here.









After some observation my tank may be doing alright.
Decided against a second algaecide treatment, treated a few items with a dip during trimming with Excel 20:1
Phish did not like AlgaeFix even in half doses.

Had some hair type algae in my 33G tank, mostly on the rear glass.
Dosing the algaecide for 5 consecutive days so far and nothing has happened.
Very much unlike the grey pearling algae I posted from the 80G a few days ago.
Wondering if once the seal is broken the effects diminish???

Traveling around Thursday I visited the LFS.
New plants had just arrived, I am a sucker for punishment.
Brought home some luwigia peruensis diamond and AR variegated all emersed growth.
No issues with the "diamond" typical type of emersed growth but the AR is another story.
The AR is a very hard stalky stem in the green form, time will tell!


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Guppy, by chance will you be at the big PVAS auction upcoming?


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

@Maryland Guppy - looks like the Atlantis has survived the transition fairly well


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Nlewis said:


> Guppy, by chance will you be at the big PVAS auction upcoming?


I would love to be there but my travels to the great state of Virginia have been rather rough.
Way too many hours spent on the highway shall we say.

Something you need? Plants?


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

Maryland Guppy said:


> I would love to be there but my travels to the great state of Virginia have been rather rough.
> Way too many hours spent on the highway shall we say.
> 
> Something you need? Plants?


Oh man you’d make a killing there selling plants. And yes I am looking for a few stems. When you have them available some S. Repens if you have it and some Rotala. Let me know and FYI the tank looks great.


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Looks good! 

I'm not convinced Ludwigia Atlantis is anything new though
It looks almost identical to the hybrid Ludwigia Repens X Arcuata which I grew for over a year...









you can see it dead center, infront of L. Rubin. When it had more light it was more copper/bronze, with less light its yellow and a tiny bit pink.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Chlorophile said:


> Looks good!
> hybrid Ludwigia Repens X Arcuata which I grew for over a year...


I'm still growing arcuata and it is very narrow leafed and quite red @ 75PAR.
What I am growing is much narrower than brevipes even.
All of the luwigia repens species are a tough road for an ID.
This plant came to me green, emersed, and somewhat narrow at first.
Now it is very narrow and very red in color.
Very prolific with roots @ lower nodes too.

I will need to post a pic of what I have going on!


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Atlantis had more variation in color when I had it. Leaves had a mix of yellow and pink in sort of vague striations. Think these are the same plants I gave to Immortal a while back?

It was pretty but leaned bad so I didnt like it. That was during a period of really high ferts and several things were getting their lean on. Funny thing is lowering ferts straightened a lot of things up. Mermaid weed, L rubin and cuba especially. 

May have to try atlantis again at some point


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Good Evening All:

I am convinced the Atlantis is the same as the repens I already have going.
Hoping for that variegated leaf type pattern but not.

Not an aquarium type weekend by any means.
Cut trees, pulled stumps, replacing a hay shed, etc...
Back @ it again tomorrow damn near all day.

Managed to make some RODI water today though.
Plants are clean and growing well.
The new blessing is the ability to just yank stems and not worry about dirt.

Tomorrow eve a little bit of trimming and I'll have to get some pics too.

Night All:


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

The plant density is off the hook!









At one point I would have sworn on the capped soil.
Now I am not so sure, BDBS is growing everything just as well.
Am I better @ the dosing and predicting, who knows!

Some mermaid weed @ it's prime, still rather short but on it's way.









Polycarpa as always at a good stage!









Parrot feather looks sharp and aromatica going strong!









Much trimming is needed and looking like most will be trashed this go around.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Maryland Guppy said:


> The plant density is off the hook!


MG that is some farm you have going there.

Your uptake of nutrients must be through the roof. Must really have an effect on fert dosing, and is another balancing act. 

Honestly makes my tank look bare in comparison, but I need room for the Bows to roam. 

When you changed substrates I wasn't sure what to expect, and am glad to see it appears to be going very smoothly for you.


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## ipkiss (Aug 9, 2011)

FTS...




FTS ...


FTS .....


FTS, FTS, FTS, 

FTS, FTS, FTS, FTS, FTS (+crowd chant + repeat x 100) 

>


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## Jamo33 (Feb 18, 2014)

ipkiss said:


> FTS...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Seconded


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Greggz said:


> MG that is some farm you have going there.
> 
> Your uptake of nutrients must be through the roof. Must really have an effect on fert dosing, and is another balancing act.
> 
> When you changed substrates I wasn't sure what to expect, and am glad to see it appears to be going very smoothly for you.


Someone is interested in a small sale, so a little breathing room coming.

Not a tough balancing act @ all.
I posted about consumption before.
3ppm NO3 & .015ppm Fe consumed daily.

Weekly I dose macro to bring water column up to 30ppm NO3,
and weekly I dose micro to bring water column up to .3ppm Fe.
Use two tests weekly and I just dose it all the same day.

I'm not done with dirt, have another bucket fermenting for 4 months now.>


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

ipkiss said:


> FTS...





Jamo33 said:


> Seconded


I'll grab a FTS tomorrow, seen these messages after lights out.
TBH the bottom of the tank looks like Holy Hell!
Many plants are in ceramic plugs and just farming is going on.

I've spent a few too many years growing and selling.
Truly want a "Dutch Scape/Fruit Stand effect but not quite ready.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

A nasty full tank washed out shot.
You get what you asked for!









Trimmed a lot last night, 75% was reaching the surface.
Handfuls went to the trash, mostly bottoms.
Nowhere to keep them to let them branch and grow.

The growth and color difference between a 75PAR tank and a 120PAR tank is extreme.
75PAR in my 33G that is the catch all for extra plants.

Myrio red stem and parrot feather are competing for the fastest grower.
It has to be over an inch a day, time lapse photography would be interesting.
I'd be willing to part with the red stem myrio but the parrot feather grows amazing tops and quite colorful.

Polycarpa has been a large colorful plant these days.
About 5" in diameter. 3 left in the 80G.


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Plugs aside, the assortment of colors and textures on the FTS are pretty impressive.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

It's time for the fruit stand my friend!:grin2:

You know it. 

You have all the species you need. I am very much looking forward to it.


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## ipkiss (Aug 9, 2011)

whaat? that FTS is pretty awesome. plugs and all. I love it. This really impresses upon the viewer the sheer immenseness of the collection. 

plus, remember who ya talkin to. you've seen my hot mess of a tank and I don't even have an excuse for it!


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Thanks Linn!

About 8" came off the bottom of the Atlantis.
Now it's a bunch of 4" tall plants in a plug.
It does look a bit different than the broadleaf, more time needed.

I could write a novel about many of these plant species.
What grows them the best, what may possibly stunt them etc..
Just don't have the time required to journal all of the info.
Plus it is only 1 perspective of the growth habit of any species.

I'm having fun and enjoy the growing part of the hobby! >

Gregg:
Ah the fruit stand part!
I've watched lots of plants grow.
Used to always think that L.cardinalis would be the "street" for me.
This stuff still grows a foot tall in my tanks, or I don't prune it enough!
After seeing the mini aromatica without soil I've changed my mind.
The mini came from you quite some time ago.

Propagation:
I have discovered over time that the single most advantage is changing the water parameters.
Place a plant in a different tank and the top stunts(sometimes not) and creates many new branches.
This works for many species!


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## celadon (Nov 9, 2015)

I like the plugs! It kind of reminds me of the exciting promise of seedlings at the garden center in the spring.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

ipkiss said:


> whaat? that FTS is pretty awesome. plugs and all. I love it. This really impresses upon the viewer the sheer immense of the collection.


It is a collection, for sure.
2 new species arrived yesterday, at least they were submerged growth.


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## ipkiss (Aug 9, 2011)

May I ask, what is this guy??


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

ipkiss said:


> May I ask, what is this guy??


rotala serpyllifolia
Reminds me a lot of arcuata in size, a bit bigger.
Way more red and very tough stems feels like a twig.


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## ipkiss (Aug 9, 2011)

Maryland Guppy said:


> rotala serpyllifolia
> Reminds me a lot of arcuata in size, a bit bigger.
> Way more red and very tough stems feels like a twig.


looks like Burr's Isoetes lacustris but in red.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

A slightly better pic.









Some "fruit stand" material but the colors don't look right.
The glandulosa is about 5" diameter now, the diamond variety may be bogus, it looks the same.
Not going to play/edit these phone pics, they are what they are but some turn out really great.









L.Cardinalis is still growing almost a foot tall even with the BDBS.
Many small plantlets that I keep but the main stalk is a monster.
A friend is taking the large stalks to grow emersed in his green house next week.

It is Friday eve, I could stay up late and trim but WTH I'm going to test KH in the 33G and dose some HCl and see where it goes from there.
I'll post in the other thread with results if all goes well!


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## ipkiss (Aug 9, 2011)

Beautiful!


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Good Evening All:
@Immortal1 I can see a difference in the "atlantis" now.
Will post some pics soon but not this eve.

Been warm for me, even the A/C on today for a bit.
Not too warm but rather humid in the house.
We've had evening and overnight rains.
Had to work on the Honey-Do list, receive a load of hay, trim hooves etc...

Now the relaxing part of the day, Trimming and not hooves! >

I dread it, not normally but this eve I'm not up to it but it must happen.
The 33G I dosed the HCl in has had a growth explosion over the past week.
The two are not related it's due to my slight neglect.
The 33G has no phish and only top offs except for a quarterly WC.
Need to WC more often due to a creep up in KH levels.
Not sure how this is happening but it is?

75G is a jungle with algae covered glass.
Sort of a plant repository for species I don't want to part with.
Diatom algae with STS substrate for years now, go figure.
I don't want to change this tank, it has very aged Amano shrimp that clean any plant I place in it to pristine condition and no BBA what so ever!

On to the trimming part!

Night All:


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Ah the fun of trimming. Look forward to your pics of the atlantis - good to hear it is doing well for you.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Good Evening All:

Taking a break from some trimming and checking the web!

Sitting back and thinking about my 80G tank.
The tank is 2 years old now, time flies.
Capped soil run basically lasted 18 months before replacing with straight BDBS.

Questions:
Did I really need the capped soil?
Most likely no, it did provide a kick start in some ways.
My normal dosing followed very early on and it is about the same today with an inert substrate.
The plants had to alter there uptake I suppose, did that bring on Algae-geddon?

Still need to lower the Kh in this tank, the HCl dosing will help.
But I'm in no hurry, so in time it will happen.
HCl was a slam dunk on the 33G no phish etc...

Some breathing room too, only 4 experiments going on right now!
2 to convert to submerged and 2 new to me submerged plants!

The local weather is warming quickly for me.
I have 7 new ponds to check out for plants already on my list.
It will be a busy Spring!

Night All:


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Evening All:

Still trimming a few species each night.
Making a big for sale list as I go, there is way too much plant mass.

About every third week I need to clean the glass a bit, not so bad.

Surface scum:
Is still a problem but not as severe. Maybe down to 1/3 @ the algae high point.
For me this has always been related to some form of dying/rotting plant matter.

Typical species in this arena are shaded ranunculus that rots @ the roots and runners.
Pulled all stray plants and no damage?

Pulled pogo erectus 2 days ago and found a prime offender.
Root runners from about 3" above substrate were securing the plant but the bottom of the stems were rotting away?
This clean up got me 2/3 of surface scum gone.

Tonight I will pull all ammannia and only save primo stems.
Don't think it's the ammannia but it needs some work.

Another prime offender is eleocharis elongata a taller grass type.
If bottoms start to go it fouls water with surface scum, but it looks healthy?

A lot of peruensis lower leaves dropped during the submerged conversion but I pic them out daily.

About 18 months ago I tried daily water changes, didn't help until the troubled plant was removed.
Once it's all removed the scum is instantly gone.

Plants:
Trimmed the L.polycarpa the other eve, yielded about 14 extra plants.
This one really branched out with the environment change from capped soil.
Same token all pogo's did the same thing.
L.aromatica branched out in the same fashion, now I have over 12 stems of it.
Normally I only keep 6, they are primo stems with solid purple tops though.
B.japonica is another off the hook plant, more so without capped soil.
Planted 2" apart they are now a very dense "chunk" of the right side of tank.

The lesser beings, Phish:
All is well, feed every 3rd day.
Amano shrimp in the 75G still tag-team on snail extraction and Panda Cory's do the same in the 80G frag tank, empty shells everywhere.

Harlequin rasbora's seem to have paired off, a mating ritual maybe?
No longer the group of 8 traveling together.
I can only say they are comfortable in the environment I've provided.

C123 Cory's are true slugs of the aquarium.
Don't move for hours at a time, if I don't feed they are conserving all energy.

Till the next time! Night All:


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## Chlorophile (Aug 2, 2011)

Maryland Guppy said:


> I'm still growing arcuata and it is very narrow leafed and quite red @ 75PAR.
> What I am growing is much narrower than brevipes even.
> All of the luwigia repens species are a tough road for an ID.
> This plant came to me green, emersed, and somewhat narrow at first.
> ...


Yes sorry, late to reply to this. 
But Repens X Arcuata is a hybrid of the two species
Doesn't look at all like Arcuata, looks more like.. well more like the "atlantis" 
Maybe I can buy some off you as I'd love to see if it ends up looking identical to my old Repens X Arcuata!
It was a highly variable plant that I had in various stages of color and leaf thickness, but like Burr said it would grow prostrate and it would widen aggressively.

Bump:


Maryland Guppy said:


> I'm still growing arcuata and it is very narrow leafed and quite red @ 75PAR.
> What I am growing is much narrower than brevipes even.
> All of the luwigia repens species are a tough road for an ID.
> This plant came to me green, emersed, and somewhat narrow at first.
> ...


Yes sorry, late to reply to this. 
But Repens X Arcuata is a hybrid of the two species
Doesn't look at all like Arcuata, looks more like.. well more like the "atlantis" 
Maybe I can buy some off you as I'd love to see if it ends up looking identical to my old Repens X Arcuata!
It was a highly variable plant that I had in various stages of color and leaf thickness, but like Burr said it would grow prostrate and it would widen aggressively.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Chlorophile said:


> Yes sorry, late to reply to this.
> But Repens X Arcuata is a hybrid of the two species
> Doesn't look at all like Arcuata, looks more like.. well more like the "atlantis"
> Maybe I can buy some off you as I'd love to see if it ends up looking identical to my old Repens X Arcuata!
> It was a highly variable plant that I had in various stages of color and leaf thickness, but like Burr said it would grow prostrate and it would widen aggressively.


I'll get a pic of this arcuata hopefully this eve.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Happy Easter and Good Evening All!

Trimmed a whole lot yesterday eve, doesn't show it but I did.
Little algae here and there but no BBA except for PVC high flow areas.

Came home with more plants from LFS yesterday! Not like I needed any but?
Luwigia orange that will most likely look like atlantis. Testing the look of the ludwigia's @ the moment.
Macrandra that looked good @ LFS, rare for this to look good from there.
Way pink right now hope it shows more red soon.
And a bulb of barclaya with 1-1" leaf that cost me $7.99, felt very robbed.
Somehow they managed to have the last 20 or so bulbs of this available from anywhere, hard to come by these days.
Speaking of bulbs, wish I never parted with all of the red tiger lotus.
Should have kept some for future use in the 75G.

I just had to stop in, their FB page said plants arrived from 3 separate vendors on Friday so Saturday morn was my only chance to get anything.
They sell out very quick and are sent home with just Flourish Comp, poor plants!:grin2:

Talked to the owner about Deep Blue tanks that are supposed out of business.
I really want that 8 sq.ft. footprint for plants that frag tanks provide.
Could be out of luck, not sure yet.
100 gallon long 6' tanks are a thing of the past and buying them used means they are very old.
@Chlorophile here is a pic of the arcuata.
It is a messy plant, many branches near the surface and many roots from nodes.
Some brevipes are in the pick too to show the broader leaf pattern.








@Immortal1 here is the atlantis that has been trimmed twice.
Wondering if many species get so labeled due to the light provided???
Many ludwigia can be "turned off" in a say 45PAR environment, I've done this many time returning plants to the 75G tank.









Some pics from the top with pump shut off.

















Instead of a full tank shot I opted for two 1/2 tank shots.

















Even when trimmed the density is off the hook! >
It makes me happy though, all this extreme growing.
Albeit not extremely difficult plants but I will graduate some day.
Still playing the KH/Soft Water game @ a slow pace to KH reduction.

Until Another Day, Night All:


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## aqua-botanicae (Jun 4, 2013)

That Rotala macrandra is having a good time!


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

aqua-botanicae said:


> That Rotala macrandra is having a good time!


Will you be @ GWAPA meeting next weekend?


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

I will say this @Maryland Guppy - the Atlantis is a prolific grower when happy. From the above picture, it looks pretty happy


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Immortal1 said:


> I will say this @Maryland Guppy - the Atlantis is a prolific grower when happy. From the above picture, it looks pretty happy


You have this coming in the mail.
4 polycarpa
2 peruensis
2 chain sword
4 or 5 nanjenshan
All are short right now and can be planted up front.

Back to "Atlantis":

Sort of sounds like a book title but not?:grin2:

I have a ludwigia broadleaf I've been growing for years.
I have atlantis from you, Linn.
Purchased this weekend 5 stems of ludwigia orange.
My fear is that they are all the same, some time is needed for the new "orange" to tell.


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Maryland Guppy said:


> You have this coming in the mail.
> 4 polycarpa
> 2 peruensis
> 2 chain sword
> ...



Sounds like a nice grouping, thank-you. Look forward to the new color variations :grin2:
Can't say I have ever had chain sword, will be interesting.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Immortal1 said:


> Can't say I have ever had chain sword, will be interesting.


Echinodorus tennellus 6-8" tall narrow blades grass type look.
Just trim runners during weekly maint and it won't travel around the tank.


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## Nlewis (Dec 1, 2015)

@Maryland Guppy I have red tiger lotus. It grows pretty good in the biotope and shoots plants up all over. Let me know and I’ll send some. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## aqua-botanicae (Jun 4, 2013)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Will you be @ GWAPA meeting next weekend?




I’d love to. I should find out when and where.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

aqua-botanicae said:


> That Rotala macrandra is having a good time!


It is happy with new growth for now!



Maryland Guppy said:


> Will you be @ GWAPA meeting next weekend?


We may meet some day!



Immortal1 said:


> I will say this @Maryland Guppy - the Atlantis is a prolific grower when happy. From the above picture, it looks pretty happy


Too happy @ this time!



Nlewis said:


> @Maryland Guppy I have red tiger lotus. It grows pretty good in the biotope and shoots plants up all over. Let me know and I’ll send some.
> 
> Need to re-visit this plant for sure!


Therapy type eve, trimming included.
All I've got to say right now!
Too much to trim.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Good Evening All:

I could be trimming but I've had enough for a few days.

New Topic:
Being that I live in a heavily wooded area and lot, one tends to notice things.
Comparisons of terrestrial plants to aquatic plants primarily.
Since it is Spring and I've noticed many similar plants I've thought to post some interesting pics as I acquire them.

I think I'll call this species Horse run-in Ranunculus! >
Logical, yes/no, it was found near their run-in shed filled with hay? :grin2:
Decades ago I remembered the name but today not so much, damn Latin! :|









More to come with "Backyard Buce" when I grab a pic. :grin2:

Had to bring something else to the table this eve.
Just staring and watching photosynthesis occur is like watching paint dry.
Acrylic is the worst being water based and what not, high VOC is the ticket!
Spraying lacquer is a dream with a faulty respirator!

All fun aside just didn't have it in me to trim again so I'll watch it grow instead!

Night All:


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Evening All:

All of the Brute cans are empty, it's an RODI kind of evening.:|
Again it is like watching paint dry! :frown2:

Much to trim before a meeting tomorrow that includes an auction.
It will be a late night, haven't even started yet, nor do I have the energy for it.

I better get moving on things shortly, time is running out!

Night All:


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Evening All:

Went to a local aquatic plant club meeting today.
Trimmed yesterday eve and prepared 10 bags of plants and took two pieces of planted tank type Malaysian wood that sinks like lead.
Offered up a 3rd bag of BDBS that has been riding shotgun with me to Washington DC since I removed the soil.
No takers for the BDBS. Still have a companion for the commute!

The only noticeable impact is the once basketball sized chunk of hydrocotyle sp. japan is a bit smaller that a soccer ball.

Brought home some emersed rotala ramisior "Cramer".
Trimmed up and put in a plug it yielded 8 stems with branches on some.
Another experiment! :|:|:|

Back to trimming.
Tomorrow is "farm" day, the real outdoor one! >


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Evening All:
> 
> Went to a local aquatic plant club meeting today.
> Trimmed yesterday eve and prepared 10 bags of plants and took two pieces of planted tank type Malaysian wood that sinks like lead.
> ...



No body likes riding alone :grin2:


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Immortal1 said:


> No body likes riding alone :grin2:


Maybe I should put a shirt on it and a soccer ball head with a hat.
HOV-2 lane then !!! :grin2::grin2::grin2:


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

The "lushness" of all those plants growing together so healthy and so many of them is damn impressive.

How often do you dose micros these days? Any difference between sand and the dirt tanks?


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

burr740 said:


> The "lushness" of all those plants growing together so healthy and so many of them is damn impressive.
> 
> How often do you dose micros these days? Any difference between sand and the dirt tanks?


Thank you for the recognition Joe!

As I have posted in other threads here the measured daily consumption 3.5ppm NO3 & .015Fe maximum.

I target .25ppm Fe in the water column.
This value was @ .3ppm Fe, dropped it a bit.
About every 10th day I dose .15ppm Fe, water column drops to .10ppm I dose.
Micro mix is CSM+B, NiSO4, 10%DTPA Fe.
I posted incorrectly in the dosing thread for this tank but never went back to correct it.
The Hanna Fe Checker was well worth the $50 I paid for it, changed my game a lot being able to measure consumption.

Macros are off the hook, a roller coaster between NO3 & PO4, one up one down etc...
Just made a new modified mix this eve to include Ca & Mg, tired of re-mineralizing the RODI water.

Difference between sand and dirt:
Beside the initial algae outbreak, nothing spectacular.
A few species do better and a few are worse by my standard.
It is a toss up between the substrate change.
Surprisingly ammannia senegalensis has not missed a beat.

The shock of the substrate change brought about the survival mode in several species.
Tops stunted and branching began, sounds great but I didn't need more plants to deal with @ the moment.
Typical pogostemon behavior though.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Good Evening All:

Still have a BDBS buddy for the commute! :smile2:

Weekend honeydew list went well but not complete, never is. :frown2:

Trimming brought about a certain scent in the air.
Reminded me of a Cuban Cohiba with a glass of Knob Creek on the side.
I can see where the weekend is clearly going now!
Clarity can help with the path of enlightenment. >
@Immortal1 "Captain that is" Atlantis is truly orange for the most part.
The rubin favors more the red for sure, "orange" is still transitioning.
@Greggz blue eyed rainbows looks promising if they're not jumpers.
Hard to find and not local so it may never happen.
@burr740 it always gets quiet when I post about dosing or WC's?

Pics soon of the ramisior "Cramer" and erio Vietnam.
Too lazy this eve but ramisior is at attention toward the light.
Vietnam came from a much lower PAR tank.

Night All, too many experiments!


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## celadon (Nov 9, 2015)

Maryland Guppy said:


> blue eyed rainbows looks promising if they're not jumpers.


I think the group as a whole are leapers. Mine certainly are! But they are lovely fish.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

celadon said:


> I think the group as a whole are leapers. Mine certainly are! But they are lovely fish.


Sadly this would rule them out for me.
Not going to compromise light availability in any fashion with screen or glass!
Cory's & H.rasbora it is, "veni vidi vici". :grin2:

Good Evening All:
Tank is going dark as the moon phase is on the rise!

Captured a few pics this eve.

rotala ramosior has started with purple tips and aiming toward the light.
About 8 stems and seems like an easy transition.









eriocaulon compressum not as green as I'd expect but over 1 year old.
Been moved many times but now about 6" tall.









Ludwigia Atlantis with very "Orange" tops!
3 trims and I tossed all of the bottoms to date.









rotala mexicana green. This is a very small plant by all means.
It is growing well and branching but is dwarfed by all others.









Pics not so great but I'm not going to spend the time to try and "Dress them up".
Once I zoom in with the phone colors shift to a lower Kelvin value, so be it!

A few losers IMHO are AR variegated which has done nothing for weeks.
Never transitioned to submerged, didn't melt, didn't grow, just sat there and stared back @ me.
Hygophila corymbosa Kompakt has been about the same, a few new green twisted leaves but nothing to write home about.

If God doesn't save them before the weekend they both may hit the trash!

As I type this post this eve Clint Eastwood is riding out of town in the movie High Plains Drifter on an awesome horse, so my attention span has drifted considerably!

A possible weekend trip is coming up pending a rain event.
Two local rivers that may contain the very red type of mermaid weed?
Local friend has shown me two access points to park the car and investigate.
This could be a big win if I can get access.

Night All:


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Native Mermaid Weed - this should be interesting 
L. Atlantis is looking very similar to mine now. Nice colorful addition to many planted tanks.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Evening All:

Thursday & Friday vacation days!!!!
Originally this would have been 4 days @ camp with horses.
Not so, much rain is in the forecast and I may not get to look for any plants in the local ponds either.
I may have to build an Ark for what they are calling for!

Normal evening therapy, some trimming going on.

Got to looking into this rotala florida ramosior.
The prices people are selling this for is of the hook, over $10 a stem.
Maybe I need to drive to Florida with an F250 and a lot of bushel baskets to bring this stuff back!
Just keep it tarped and damp until I get it home to put in the pond! >>>
I also mean the outdoor ponds, not the 3 tanks in the house!

From what I can tell so far this plant transitions to submerged growth with no issues.
Coloration to mostly purple tops in 5 days with @ least 3/4" of new growth.

Till Tomorrow, maybe:


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

I picked up 10 stems of the but could not keep it happy living in the soup I was providing at the time. Pretty plant, but the leaves were a lot smaller than I was expecting.
Curious, don't you have one of those Everglades fan boats to use on the local ponds?


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Immortal1 said:


> I picked up 10 stems of the but could not keep it happy living in the soup I was providing at the time. Pretty plant, but the leaves were a lot smaller than I was expecting.
> Curious, don't you have one of those Everglades fan boats to use on the local ponds?


I can only hope you didn't pay the high price I've been seeing. :|:|:|
From what I can tell it is a small leaved plant so far.

No, I don't have the boat with the airplane engine!>


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Good Evening All:

Trashed the AR variegated, showed no sign of nothing for like a month.
Was still brittle like a twig and the same green leaves.
Just have to write that off as never buying an emersed bunch of that again!

Big mistake, went to LFS? Came home with one bunch of ammannia gracilis.
The top 4-5 inches was already transitioned so not too bad.
I just trashed the bottoms knowing how this usually goes.
One more bunch of peruensis came home with me too, I like the look of this a lot.

Rainy weekend but no need to build an Ark!
I mean it rained but no washed out driveway etc...

So, an update.
Rotala ramosior doing well.
Tank not looking too bad.


















Two years ago roughly I started with the capped soil.
I was sold on it for sure, it provided great instant gratification.
Is the capped soil better? It's a tough call, too many variables.
I've decreased KH, rolled my own micros and who knows what else.
60% or better of all species are growing better without the capped soil.
On the flip side the 33G which still has capped soil is doing very well.
I don't give it the attention that the 80G gets but still?

Till another eve:


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Evening All:

I am searching for an emoji that is a punch in the mouth. :|


New business:

A new macro solution has been made.
No longer will I re-mineralize RODI water.
I've added Mg & Ca to the macro bottle, increased bottle volume so increase of dosage.
The CaSO4 is added last and never fully dissolves so before drawing a dose the solution must be shaken.
No longer adding any alkalinity/carbonates/bicarbonates to the tanks either.

The larger doses encouraged me to purchase some new glassware.
3 larger graduated cylinders and 3 new beakers, macro dosing could now be a 40-60ml dose.
Evilbay provided a $20 solution for this so little out of pocket.

New 12.5" long pipettes for drawing HCl from the bottle.
Leaning the bottle and pouring in a cylinder is testy.

The single most beneficial item of late is the reduction of KH.
I've not been aggressive @ dropping KH levels either.
One tank with RODI and the other with HCl.
The soil capped tank seems to add alkalinity back to the water column but not much.


Plants:

My enemy, shade, has made be lose about 4 stems lately.
Not that they will be missed but sometimes it's difficult to keep up with trimming.
Trimming every night gets out of hand so nights like today I sit in front of each tank a bit analyzing what is going on.
Snap some pics and contemplate what I could maybe do better?
The art of observation is an area many fall short on.

A few sales and a few freebies went out recently.
Would never know I removed a single item.


Species related:

Erio compressum I posted a pic of a few posts ago has now split into three.
Not ready to separate but an amazing change in this plant for me.
Erio vietnam is getting ready to do the same, it is very new to me.

S.repens did not like the conversion from capped soil to inert substrate.
Been waiting it out and have about 6 stems now to replant.
The base of this mess is covered in BBA but new growth is great.
Shame it took over 14 weeks to recover from the change to inert.


Horse related:

I've not been riding yet this year.
Past several weekends I've contemplated building an Ark, we've had so much rain.
It will happen soon and the tanks will hit the back burner again until the season is over.

Night All:


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Good nite MG


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Immortal1 said:


> Good nite MG


I may need a break, looking like a move back to TBR and talk to myself for a bit.
Just fill up my journal with updates as deemed needed.
Not a big fan of FB which seems like many are moving to these days.
Yes, I follow but post very little there.

New XL pipettes arrived today so no more dripping acid on my hands.
Dosed my 33G tank to kind of check them out, makes drawing HCl from the bottle much easier.

A trimming kind of eve getting ready to start.
I no longer travel early am, don't have to be in till 11am. :smile2:
No more rush hour traffic is a blessing! :grin2:


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Maryland Guppy said:


> I may need a break, looking like a move back to TBR and talk to myself for a bit.
> Just fill up my journal with updates as deemed needed.
> Not a big fan of FB which seems like many are moving to these days.
> Yes, I follow but post very little there.


If solitude is your goal TBR looks like a good way to go.:wink2:

As to FB, I just recently joined some groups there. IMO, a poor way to learn much about planted tanks. 

Most worthwhile discussions are too detailed/nuanced for the format. Seems mostly like folks with little to no experience offering advice to those with little to no experience. Not many really interesting in depth debates, and lots of folks who just like to stir the pot and are pretty rude.

That being said, I have also seen some very nice tanks too. Some heavy hitters in the planted tank world hang out there, and I've been trying to learn more about their methods. Unfortunately the format doesn't really lend itself to that.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

I tried to follow a few FB groups too and it's a horrible format! So much easier and makes more sense via the thread/forum format! I ended up hiding all except my local fish groups on FB. 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

I'm a member on many of the private groups on FB.
Even a few that many of us despise the members there of, mind you only to see what is going on.
I don't post there, maybe 3 posts per year?

Here the decimal point doesn't count regarding Fe dosing! >>>


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

So I tested KH levels this eve.

80G @ 2dKH & 33G @ 2dKH
Give it a few days and I'll drop both to 1dKH.
The 80G will be with a larger WC of RODI and the 33G will be quick and easy with HCl.

Takeaways:

I've dropped KH very slowly to observe both very different tanks.
Plant growth has accelerated but all are not primo growth.
Some adjustment time and a few trimmings are needed, shouldn't take long.
This is not with all plants mind you, just a few.

Algae has made a turn.
All long stringy hair algae is gone since the AlgaeFix treatment and stayed gone for 14+ weeks.
Transitioning emersed plants have lower leaf algae as the leaves drop.
Part of the transition and I can live with.
S.repens is not trimmed yet and has significant BBA on lower portion.
The glass is very clean but when a spot of algae appears it's a large green dot, 4-8mm in size.
Never has it been like this before the lower KH levels.
Instead of cleaning the spots off I'll just watch for a bit.

Sometimes the algae is worth watching and not to freak out about.
I've even tried growing specific types with no success, you always grow what you don't want to observe.

The big wins:
Blyxa japonica has gone ape shiitake, every little stem has rooted quick and turned into 5-6 extra plants.
Erio compressum has divided into 5 plants, not just 3.

Back to "The Trim"


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Now that you mention it - my Blyxa japonica is actually looking pretty good living life the 2dKH life. Previously when I was living the 6-8dKH life the roots would basically rot off and it would float away. Figuring it had to do with the fert level, I moved sever to the 20g low tech tank which gets very little ferts. They looked better eventually but not great. Two were left to struggle in the 75g tank - looked like crp but still alive. Now, theres 3 and they all look pretty healthy. Hmmmmm. 

Learn something new every day. Good Nite.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Immortal1 said:


> Now that you mention it - my Blyxa japonica is actually looking pretty good living life the 2dKH life. Previously when I was living the 6-8dKH life the roots would basically rot off and it would float away.


I don't know for sure if b.japonica is KH related.
1st in inert sub all great but slow.
2nd was capped soil and minimal roots that break when pulled from substrate.
3rd is back to inert BDBS and the best yet, but other factors @ play.
Accidentally dragged one up when pulling other plant runners out.
Massive root system and easily replanted.

General thoughts:

I've changed a lot in the past two months.
Lowering of KH seems to be the largest win if that's really it.

Micros are also rather low compared to many others.
Seems I'm dosing .15 of Fe every 15 days, that's it.
Fe falls under .10 and it's time to dose.

Macros I've been letting drop to almost zero before I dose now.
Seems crazy to dose 50ml of my solution @ once but it's a bit weaker than the previous mix.

Algae has showed a little on a few plants.
Not a big deal with all of the changes going on.
It's not always the slower growers either.

My thoughts, I get plants from a few local ponds on occasion.
Always bring home a water sample to test.
Rock bottom @ almost all parameters but with extreme growth in the ponds.
Maybe lower is better? I can't say, this may take a year to decipher.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Some thoughts:
I think all the changes has brought about algae again?
Lowering of KH, stretched out micro dosing.
Macro dosing hasn't really changed, just a lot consumed.
Not willing to drop the macro dosing if the plants are sucking them up.
TDS is constantly dropping, I measure everyday, it's too easy to do.

Really need to relate TDS to macro dosing but it's a tough one.
Still a roller coaster between NO3 & PO4 uptake?
I've altered my macro mix 3x to try and compensate, no win yet.
The consumption rates of these two flip-flop all the time.
This is why traditional EI & WC of 50% keep things in line.
Possible compensation will most likely be to let the PO4 run higher.

Smell:
While trimming etc...80G with BDBS smells way different than 33G capped soil tank plants.
Some plants never smell different, L.aromatica smells right tasty but the mini variety smells like a urinal mint, go figure!

Growth:
Very surprisingly the inert BDBS has excelled in growth compared to the capped soil tank these days.
85% of plants really enjoy the inert substrate water column dosing.
Trimming has turned into a royal PITA and much more frequent.
My happy face is not showing through on this one!
@Immortal1 Atlantis and L.orange are one in the same.
Very different from the L.ruben but only in color, reds vs. orange.
I'd rate L.ovalis as a better win for a red ludwigia and softer smaller look.

Polycarpa is still a win for a tri-colored plant.
Hope that any I have sent out are still growing well?

This eve:
Totally missed my trim timing, lights have transitioned to moon cycle as I type.
Tomorrow is another day and I'm rather beat for the day anyway!


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Evening All:

Went to a plant group meeting this past Saturday. :smile2:
Came home with 4 extra plants. :|
Like I have room for them? :grin2:

Been trimming lots and avoiding the erio compressum.
If I split it I'll have 6 plants to deal with, not ready yet!

Just keep Trimming!

Night All:


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## Wobblebonk (Feb 13, 2018)

Also got more plants than I really know what to do with, and you booby trapped the blyxa with ranunculus... which of course I planted because why not discover I'm too lazy to keep it in check all over again in another tank?!

So there's a decently high chance that that piece of java fern I labeled as Thor's Hammer could also be Thamarassery... it's definitely one of the 2....


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Wobblebonk said:


> and you booby trapped the blyxa with ranunculus... which of course I planted because why not discover I'm too lazy to keep it in check all over again in another tank?!
> 
> So there's a decently high chance that that piece of java fern I labeled as Thor's Hammer could also be Thamarassery... it's definitely one of the 2....


Who can argue with bonus plants? >

Fern is definitely Thor's hammer/thunderleaf etc...


Been trimming lots and tossing any stems that are not primo items.
Not just one tank but all three and whatever is too close to the surface first.
Tonight no trimming, the 2019 movie "Deadwood" captured my attention until 10pm.

Not a horse camp kind of weekend due to the rains all week.
River too deep to cross which would just make for a very short ride.


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

Have you ever tried Miracle Horse Organic Soil in your tank? I hear that stuff's the [censored][censored][censored][censored].


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## Wobblebonk (Feb 13, 2018)

is that a fancy way of saying horse poo?


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Phil Edwards said:


> Have you ever tried Miracle Horse Organic Soil in your tank? I hear that stuff's the [censored][censored][censored][censored].





Wobblebonk said:


> is that a fancy way of saying horse poo?


Don't hate!
I've used both poultry "litter" & horse "manure" in capped soil arrangements.
They both grow plants well!!


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Somehow I kinda figured you were keeping secrets from us 
Now we know some of your secrets, LOL


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Don't hate!
> I've used both poultry "litter" & horse "manure" in capped soil arrangements.
> They both grow plants well!!


Did you have to process them at all before using them? It seems they'd be pretty rich and would need some initial soaking or something to get the quick release (for lack of a better word) stuff out beforehand.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Phil Edwards said:


> Did you have to process them at all before using them? It seems they'd be pretty rich and would need some initial soaking or something to get the quick release (for lack of a better word) stuff out beforehand.


Never did the multiple soaking and drying routine.
Just made sure everything was sun dried, no moisture, and crumbles easily.
Only added this to a yard soil mix in the past.

This just made the yard soil equivalent to the Miracle Gro All Purpose that does contain poultry litter and is stated on the bag.

Miracle Gro All Purpose with added Osmocote+ is the "hottest" soil I've used.

Never tried any "organic" soils that everyone mentions, never hopped on any "organic type mentality".


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## Wobblebonk (Feb 13, 2018)

I've used manure in the yard... you barely keep any livestock though :O


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Wobblebonk said:


> I've used manure in the yard... you barely keep any livestock though :O


The poultry "litter" went in the 80G 2 years ago.
Surviving 12 Cory's & 8 harlequin rasboras + 2 flame tetras.

Horse manure went to the 33G, it is "Phishless"
The 33G did not grow as well as the 80G but I won't blame the soil, I opted for max 75PAR instead of 120.

Trimmed at least 2 dozen species this eve.
Pulled the erio compressum, if I had waited another week or two it would have been 6 plants.
Wound up with 4 so no worries there.
God bless the BDBS if I still had capped soil it would have been the cap breach of the century.
Way worse than all of the crypts I've pulled, 6-8" roots easily.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

I'm very confused at this time?

The two big changes to my tank just so happened at the same time.
Huge reduction of KH and the move to an inert substrate.
My dosing is still pretty much the same, so this shouldn't matter.

Plants are reaching the surface much quicker these days.
Much more trimming is required and a PITA for sure.

I want to blame the reduction in KH primarily?
Is this the real reason?

Ranunculus has been a weed under all circumstances, it may have to go soon.


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

I can only say that since reducing the KH from 8 to 2 did make a noticeable difference in the growth of several plants in the tank. At least I assume it has more to do with the KH and not the differing in fert levels.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

My guess (and this is only a guess) is that in low KH it's easier for plants to take up ferts. 

As I lowered my KH, fert needs became lower and lower. 

Not to levels of Linn yet, but who knows as the experiments (trial and error) continue.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Immortal1 said:


> I can only say that since reducing the KH from 8 to 2 did make a noticeable difference in the growth of several plants in the tank.





Greggz said:


> My guess (and this is only a guess) is that in low KH it's easier for plants to take up ferts.


I want to bet money on the lower KH too.

Myrio red stem has slowed down with lower KH! :surprise:

Having many species of plants, it may be time to purge a few.
Tired of testing between tanks with different ferts, different substrate options etc...
Maybe it's time to toss a few that are not the primo growers?
As I trim this eve some decisions will be made!


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

80G started to show some BGA on the tops of plants.
Hit it with a dose of ChemiClean yesterday, results unknown @ this time.

Emptied my 33G tank today of plants.
Vac, big water change, pre-dosed tank to my liking and now to clean up 2 drywall buckets of plants before they go back in.
Clearly this is self-persecution @ it's best! >


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Maryland Guppy said:


> 80G started to show some BGA on the tops of plants.
> 
> Hit it with a dose of ChemiClean yesterday, results unknown @ this time.
> 
> ...




Do you dose Chemiclean as per instructions or reduced dose?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

As per instructions.
1 level scoop per 10 gallons.
Haven't used this one in a while!


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

The ChemiClean has seemed rather weak and I didn't even have a "large" outbreak? :frown2::frown2::frown2:

Tank looks cloudy this eve and I'm going to wait it out for a bit and see what happens.
Something must be disintegrating in here but I don't see it yet! 

My 33G tank looks pristine this eve after yesterdays massive clean up.
Parameters: pH = 5.82, TDS = 225, Gh =7, KH =2, Ca = 30ppm, NO3 = 20ppm, PO4 = 3ppm, Fe = .23ppm
Not happy with TDS @ 225, I overshot the GH levels a bit and KH should have been just under 1dKH.
60% of the plant mass met the trash can, the madness and propagation had to slow down.


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## Roomba960 (Jun 13, 2019)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Good Evening All:
> 
> Trashed the AR variegated, showed no sign of nothing for like a month.
> Was still brittle like a twig and the same green leaves.
> ...



So I hope you don't mind but I took two of your photos at random and ran them through PhotoShop using the quick "Auto Contrast" and "Auto Colour" touch-ups. I wanted to illustrate that phone cameras are awesome and then can take stunning tank photos and a little Photo Shop nudge is often all it takes to brighten them up. Awesome tank btw, I look forward to devouring this thread.

I'm new to this board and I can't post photos yet but here is an Imgur link of the two photos I retouched. https://imgur.com/a/Z0gfETQ
I hope you can view the images side by side as a comparison.


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## Surf (Jun 13, 2017)

> My guess (and this is only a guess) is that in low KH it's easier for plants to take up ferts.
> 
> As I lowered my KH, fert needs became lower and lower.


I think the main benefit to lower KH is that carbonate can react with your micros and can make some of the nutrients less availbe to plants. sodium and potassium bicarbonates can react with manganese, zinc, and copper sulfate converting the carbonates into sulfate. The resulting Mn, Zn, and Cu carbonates may then no longer be water soluble and may precipitate out of the water. 

So lowering KH reduces the loss of macros. Possibly enough to allow you to lower your dose. 




> My thoughts, I get plants from a few local ponds on occasion.
> Always bring home a water sample to test.
> Rock bottom @ almost all parameters but with extreme growth in the ponds.
> Maybe lower is better? I can't say, this may take a year to decipher.


Keep in mind a pond has a lot more water than your typical aquarium. So the concentrations will be lower. But plants can probably still extract nutrients from the water even if they are present at only 0.001ppm. With a small water current generated by the wind a plant can process hundreds of gallons of water per day to get the nutrients it needs. 

You cannot duplicate that in a typical aquarium. Our tanks are simply too small. So it is not practical to go as low as a pond. Attempting to do that would result in deficiencies in the aquarium. It would be interesting to see that data you have on the pond readings. And it would be even better if you could send the samples out to a lab that could provide readings for all macro and micro nutrients. But that is often too expensive.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Maryland Guppy said:


> 60% of the plant mass met the trash can, the madness and propagation had to slow down.


And it still hurts, every time! Haha


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Grobbins48 said:


> And it still hurts, every time! Haha


Not any more!
The 40% that I saved will be another jungle in no time at all.


ChemiClean 80G:
Did it's job, it just took 4 days of waiting instead of my thoughts on just two days.

I mentioned the erio compressum growth was greatly improved with lower KH.
We all knew that would be the case anyway.
Erio vietnam that was given to me has totally changed it's appearance, it came from a low tech tank.
More time needed to see the end result but the lo-tech look was what interested me.

The next heavy hitter is blyxa japonica.
Having grown this is many different substrates and water parameters it has always been a 3" tall plant with multiple side shoots.
Now it has really took off in growth, 6" and even more dense that previous plantings.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

I'm not sure where to start this eve.

Seems like ChemiClean trashed the BGA, then a water change.
Then the GHA explosion again, not as bad as the substrate change but not good.
Pearling algae is never good!
AlgaeFix one shot treatment again, but this is not how it's supposed to be.

If the weekend permits I'm going to set up an old ten gallon for plant treatment with an in tank pump for flow.
All plants in ten gallon means that 80G can be cleaned and vacuumed and a 50% WC.

Waiting to see where this goes!

Night All:


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

AlgaeFix did it's job quite well.
Lots of grey dissolving algae that is pearling? :|

This large density of plants will not work without the capped soil IMHO.
Not to mention the lower KH levels.

The 33G still remains as capped soil with lower KH and these same issues are not present.

Feels like I am re-learning several species of plants all over again. :frown2:

Surface scum:
Now present in all 3 tanks! All tanks are very different.
Recently found an insect that seems to be the culprit.
Small gnat type critter that doesn't like water!

Night All:


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

What a trip! The ammount of thought, prep, experimentation, DIY, and labor is just mindblowing. Where do you find the time and energy?
Collectoritis is an old friend of mine and over planting is like bad breath - nobody is ammused. Throwing plants away gives me a hearburn.Still, makes me feel a bit better that I am not alone in my affliction.

If I ever, ever do yet another tank it better be something along the 48x48x18 lines but I bet it still won't have any substrate visible.

Well done, Sir.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

OVT said:


> What a trip! The ammount of thought, prep, experimentation, DIY, and labor is just mindblowing. Where do you find the time and energy?
> Collectoritis is an old friend of mine and over planting is like bad breath - nobody is ammused. Throwing plants away gives me a hearburn.Still, makes me feel a bit better that I am not alone in my affliction.
> 
> If I ever, ever do yet another tank it better be something along the 48x48x18 lines but I bet it still won't have any substrate visible.
> ...


Thank you for the compliments!
Many DIY items I have down to an exact quick science.

Collecting plants has been the big downfall.
Even last night during a trim extra branches of ludwigia went to another tank instead of the trash.


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Even last night during a trim extra branches of ludwigia went to another tank instead of the trash.


That's my story and that is how I end up with tankfulls of "trashy" plants that suffocate the slower growers.

While on the subject, I would be happy to buy Ludwidgia and Limno aromatica from you. My 140g is chockfull of Ambulia and is looking too green.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

@OVT The ludwigia I speak of was atlantis and orange.
Not as trashy as some.
Have some arcuata and brivipes too.
Aromatica I have is the mini shorter version.


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

@Maryland Guppy, thank you, but I got all of those.
I'll just wait for you to expand your collection
<evil smile>


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

OVT said:


> @Maryland Guppy, thank you, but I got all of those.
> I'll just wait for you to expand your collection
> <evil smile>


Others are not @ a sellable quanitity @ the moment.
Large aromatica has not branched any in a long time.
I've just been keeping the tops right now.

Have some polycarpa.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

@OVT what ludwigia are you looking for?


My tank is a bit cloudy this eve, I stirred up lots yesterday and getting ready to do it again this eve.
No ammonia readings, low pH so who cares! :grin2:
95% of the tank is planted with "plants in plugs" right now.
If I get everything trimmed down and easy to remove quickly I can pull it all in an eve, vacuum, and run the vortex for a 24 hour period.
I've had all plants in a container for 48 hours before with no issues.
An exchange of Poret foam is ready for the corner filters too.

This large cleanup is much needed with the algae outbreaks and the need for additional chemicals for a remedy.
It's just a royal PITA but many of you know how this goes, maybe?
Plenty of "zero" Kh water is ready but a bit more wouldn't hurt.
Full Brute cans for tomorrow eve!

All of the plants are growing well despite the little things.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Still trimming a cloudy tank this eve. :frown2:
Plant health is very much improved despite the cloud.
Everything is pearling a lot, so the cloud is not blocking much light I guess.
Battled plenty of green water but not this haze like I have now.
TDS is not climbing, normal daily losses on this until I dose again.
Don't know if the diatom filter will clean this up, it won't remove green water but cloudy? Maybe?

Found 4 plugs in the bottom while trimming with no plants in them.
Can't remember what was in them, so I'd say they dissolved away.:|
Shade, that horrible enemy!

Been using up the RO water in other tanks, so WC will have to happen Saturday eve.
Going to try and use diatom filter tomorrow eve and shut it down following am before I travel to work.
If it doesn't do it's job while I sleep it ain't going to work anyway.

Plants:
Tulunadensis is growing really well along with a mini rotala mexicana something.
Erio compressum after the split to 4 is well.
Rugosa has recovered, glad I didn't toss this one.
Bihar has 6" leaves going on, what a monster of a plant.

Placed a lonely single stem of rotala magenta in the tank about 6 weeks ago.
It has grown and branched into about 6 stems.
This was a premium grower for me some time ago and I've always kept some really ratty stems of it in another tank.
It may shine again!

Weekend pics for sure on these.
Phish feeding type of evening and as a cautious measure I'm going to test all of my water parameters this eve before sleep.

If I had a really tall tank, which I will never have, I'd seriously recommend 3 plants.
S.Bihar, L.Aromatica, and Ambulia, all very differnt textures and can be tall growers.

Night All:


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## Wobblebonk (Feb 13, 2018)

Sigh I have some blyxa (aubertii? I thought that's what it said at HoT but they don't write names on bags and I don't remember) red... I looked it up supposed to grow to like 15" and it does turn intense red under high light but my god I am just going to get rid of it because theres at least 15" curled around the surface of a 24" deep tank... what am I supposed to do with this?! needs like the worlds most intense lights over a 4' deep tank :/

I've had aubertii before and it never got near this size so I am kinda stumped.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Wobblebonk said:


> I've had aubertii before and it never got near this size so I am kinda stumped.


Reckon this must be a different plant than aubertii?


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## Wobblebonk (Feb 13, 2018)

Yeah I guess it must be something else but I can't find many mentions of 30"+ tall blyxas... actually i bought 2 blyxas from HOT that got stupid tall that I can't find much info on... other one is like "spiralis" or spiral or something I don't even know but yeah the leaves curl and grow about 24" instead of well over 30... hah they were only a few dollars each but I've no idea where they got these things from. I suppose very val like except they don't take over a tank with runners...

I can't find any information about either one on the internet...


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Update:
UV is running in the tank now, slowly clearing up.
Maybe I've avoided the green water by starting early enough?

I mean why not green water next?
Battled the BGA, next the green hair algae, WTH is going on?
I want to blame the transition to inert soil, not all plants have entirely new growth yet.
A few species are slower growers by far.

Plants are clean and look good so not much loss of PAR going on.
Most everything is growing like a weed, but cloudy. :frown2:

Much less macro consumption now, reduced by about a third.
Micros are still fairly steady.

33G:
This tank was trimmed on the 12th and everything has reached the surface.
Still capped soil that is not fully depleted yet.
Should have dropped the KH much sooner I reckon.

Night All:


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Good Evening All:

I can definitely say the cloudy water is going away.
Changed a UV lamp yesterday that was blinking and not staying on fully.
Once it's clear that just means one more week of UV.


More plant info relative to substrate change:

Rugosa has recovered, past the BBA on lower leaves and almost a full new growth stem.

S.repens a full recovery now, became covered with BBA and I just let it go.
Enough new growth appeared so I trimmed and replanted, now all's good.

Surprisingly ludwigia sp. red went very downhill, stunted tops, lower leaf BBA.
It kept growing but looked like hell, now 6 trims later the top 4-5" are on track.

I am not afraid to look at something go south for a bit.
Patience is required in this hobby by all means.
Only step in when a massive loss could occur.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Good Evening All:

Cloudy water is completely gone, a good thing by far.
7 more days of UV for good measure!

Upped my PO4 dosing a bit, maybe keep the glass a bit cleaner?
Didn't change my macro bottle just adding a bit on the side.
This will determine the next macro recipe though.

Since I always comment about some species of plant. :|
1st ludwigia species: Repens, atlantis, and orange all seem to me as the same plant.
At about 8" above the substrate they are all 3 the same pink color and all leaves are definitely identical.

After staring at the tank for a while this pink color is quite dominant.
Rotala H'ra, brevipes tops, S.Bihar tops, above mentioned ludwigia, ammannia, persicaria india, and R.macrandra all showing the same color.
Nitrogen deprivation is not in my game so don't go there.

Ludwigia sp. Red is truly red.
The maroon color is displayed in peruensis, barklaya, and tops of polycarpa.
B.colorata still has a purple tint of it's own very close to R.cramer tops.

Enough about color:
Polycarpa is my weed right now, really ever since I got it.
It branches well so I save many of the smaller plantlets that I move to another tank.
At 60 PAR it has been all green and flat leaved, more PAR and we have color.
Shading will surely drop the bottom 3 nodes of leaves in my tank.

P.erectus is going to need a big trim, 30+ stems are almost @ the surface.
This plant seems to love a low KH, all stem rot is gone and nice fine leaves.

R.tulunadensis does not like shade.
It is a grower and hard to kill but shade is the enemy.
If it's not the light yellow green color it's shaded too much.

The 80G transition to BDBS:
Watching this tank I don't think the transition is complete yet.
Yeah I know it's been a while but some plants adapt quicker than others.
The algae battles and cloudy water, I just nuked these things to get past it.
Single planted stems work best but I am dealing with a lot of density here.
Ceramic plugs are still used for many plants in bulk.

Enough rambling, Night All:


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Evening:

UV all over with now.
Moderate trimming and daily small WC's about 5 gallons.

Fert consumption has took a turn.
Much lower macro consumption but a bit higher micro.
Now Fe is consumed at a rate of .03125ppm per day, almost double.
A dose of .25ppm Fe went to zero in 8 days. Dosed again last night @ .25ppm
I'll need to watch macro much closer in the future, been kind of dosing and forgetting about it.

GH is @ 3dGH so I'm going to up it to 4dGH this eve.
KH is almost 1dKH so I'll not touch that one.

Mentioned that a few plugs of plants were empty.
Lost to shading were gardneri, peruensis x2, ammannia gracillis.
Surface scum has greatly diminished without dissolving plant matter.
Ammannia senegalensis I decided to trash from this tank, still growing in another but not real happy in the 80G.

I received some common sword plants from a local member.
Split and cleaned these up and are growing well in the wife's no-tech guppy tank.
In my 75G ferted, mid range CO2 & PAR tank they are showing every deficiency picture you could find on the web! :grin2:
In reality there is no deficiency considering all of the other 25 species of plants growing in there are fine.
There is a beautiful 3" ball of staghorn algae growing from a dying leaf, I will need to get a pic before I trim this leaf. :grin2:
A nice grey /white structure that is quite impressive.
I've never had this form of algae to date.
I can only assume it really likes slow dying leaves!

My normal CSM+B mix with extra 10% Fe is growing a creature/blob inside the bottle.
Never seen this before, same compounds, kept in same location, cool in basement area where stored, go figure???
Same RODI water(pH 4.85) and 5ml Excel in a 250ml solution.
The non-chelated mix except for Fe is fine and has always been good.

Over All Plant Growth 80G:
Growth is possibly @ it's best for 85% of species, surely to blame on lower KH.
Any species not showing best growth is getting trashed or moved to another tank.
This tank needs to be thinned out and only growing primo plants.
I know it's been a while since the substrate change but I feel that some plants are still going through a transition.
More time and patience is still needed.

Taking horses to camp tomorrow so I'll be away for a night.
Bit of evening cleanup and trim what's too close to the surface.


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## freshwater1 (Nov 24, 2016)

*Journal of My 80 Gallon Frag Tank &quot;BDBS!&quot;*



Maryland Guppy said:


> Good Evening All:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I had some P. erectus a couple years ago when I was running my tank w/ high lighting. I could never get it to do anything. It’d always start to rot at the bottom and lose needles until I just tossed it in the compost heap. I never directly measured GH, but I suspect it was that due to limestone deposits in the area (I use tap water).


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

freshwater1 said:


> I had some P. erectus a couple years ago when I was running my tank w/ high lighting. I could never get it to do anything. It’d always start to rot at the bottom and lose needles until I just tossed it in the compost heap. I never directly measured GH, but I suspect it was that due to limestone deposits in the area (I use tap water).


Don't think I mentioned GH in that post?

The P.erectus improvement was relative to lower alkalinity(KH) and low micros.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Good Evening All:

It's hot, I mean damn hot today. Reached 100°F for me in Maryland.
I stayed inside, tested some water, made 3 trash cans of RODI of course while watching TV!

Made RODI remineralized for the 75G tank.
Can't use it yet, tap was @ 85°F.
All of my tanks are kept @ 70-72°F.
A little top off water or a 5 gallon water change I would not worry.
But a 50% on the 75G no way!

I posted a for sale thread that has really helped out to reduce the density.
Sort of, maybe, it seems every eve things grow by at least an inch.

Algae Update:
I've had a green algae lately, a cross between BGA & GHA.
It seemed to come from nowhere, float around and settle on plants.
It's not attached so every 3-4 days I used 1/4" tubing to just siphon where ever found.
Come to find out my mermaid weed is wrapped around my heater.
Leaves get cooked to a brown color and grow this algae.
All trimmed and moved clear of the heater this eve.
Another density related issue???

My 75G low tech tank has a grey staghorn algae growing on a rotting amazon sword leaf.
It is now the size of a baseball, I've just been watching it grow.
Never had this type before so I assume it loves a huge dying leaf.
Tomorrow it will hit the trash if my water has cooled down for water change.

The 33G still has the capped soil and stays really clean.
Plants no algae, front and sides no algae, spraybar BBA and back glass has a green hue going on.

Plants:
Ammannia senegalensis is almost gone.
It only grew well with capped soil in the 80G @ 110PAR.
I won't miss it, too many other species to contend with.

Ludwigia peruensis still going in the capped soil 33G but the BDBS 80G ain't going to work.

I am at the point of keeping what works well and eliminating experiments.

Night All:

Back to trimming!


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Evening All:

So the tank is a bit weird, the algae and cloudy water.
I tested everything possible yesterday eve, NH4 around 2.0ppm!
Thus the algae explained.
Everything else on target but PO4 was a bit low, added 1.0ppm to try and compensate.

Added some NiSO4 to the micro solution and we shall see.

Trimming out of the question until Sunday eve.
Tired and going to camp with horses for the weekend.

All phish are accounted for so the NH4 explanation is unknown as of yet!

Night All, until sometime soon!


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Lots of trimming.
Surface scum is almost completely gone.

Algae is definitely on it's way out.
The clean up is slow but working.
85% of plants are doing well with no algae.
The floating loose algae ends up in the bushy species.
P.erectus, b.japonica, d.diandra, r.wayanad, they are a catch all type of plant.

Tops of some species such as larger rotalas and aromatica mini has some BGA going on.
ChemiClean dosed this eve to try and remedy this.
Thinking by the end of August I'll be good to go in the 80G.

My 33G is booming, 90% of sale plants are coming from here.
Capped soil is about spent but I've always dosed this tank anyway.
Never clean the glass in this tank but spraybar always has BBA around the holes and the back glass will get a light cover of algae.
I don't disturb it so as to not disperse it everywhere.

75G is now potassium deficient showing typical signs.
Adjusted water column this eve to 15ppm and will wait to observe.
This tank is always last to get the love!
The STS with amano shrimp have all been in there over 4 years.
Maybe time for a BDBS substrate now, one phish left, a red tail shark.
He was a real bully to all of the platys raised in this tank.
Platys are gone, my wife has slowly confiscated them all to her tank.
She takes them upstairs to her tank and I truly believe the cats have been eating them.

It is time to crash.

Night All:


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Evening All:

I realize the pics or it didn't happen theory!
So here I go!

Rotala magenta that was down to like 3 stems has bounced back!
Growing in two tanks I'm back up to 30+ stems of healthy growth.









Rotala tulunadensis, the bottoms are trash but I'm letting them go a bit longer before the trim.









D.diandra from a new culture is growing well.
Macrandra is well along with @ least 50+ stems of P.erectus beside and far behind it.









The BGA that only affects some tops.
This is aromatica mini that cleans up well but little bits growing on the tops.









A quick pic from the end of the tank.
The plant mass is extreme even 1/2 way through trimming.
Excuse the not so well composed pics.









Issues:
Still way too dense but I've parted with lots and sent much to the trash.
I'm selling less so I've been trimming less which dosen't help the overall scope of things.
Another ChemiClean dose on Sunday eve to back up the previous dose.

A mistaken swap of plants dumped many extra species in my lap.
Not expecting this but shiitake happens!

Going camping so until until Sunday eve all of this will be on auto-pilot!

Night All:


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Really enjoy this perspective. It makes your tank seem like it's 20 feet wide. 

The plant mass may be substantial but your fish appear to be loving it. Tanks like this that aren't overly manicured are my favorite. Wish more of us would let things go wild on occasion.



Maryland Guppy said:


> A quick pic from the end of the tank.
> The plant mass is extreme even 1/2 way through trimming.
> Excuse the not so well composed pics.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

somewhatshocked said:


> The plant mass may be substantial but your fish appear to be loving it.
> Tanks like this that aren't overly manicured are my favorite.
> Wish more of us would let things go wild on occasion.


Thank You!

The phish love it, but the corys stay within the confines of the jungle most of the time.
Rasboras stay visible most always.

Manicured not so much but I would like to.
With three tanks filled with 80+ species trimming happens in stages.


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## Ken Keating1 (Nov 22, 2017)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Thank You!
> 
> The phish love it, but the corys stay within the confines of the jungle most of the time.


You definitely have the jungle look, but I like it!

Interesting note about the corys, mine do the same when it gets jungle like. I don't even see them, they go into hiding and don't come out. There for a while I thought some must of died, but when I changed out the gravel they all showed up. After the gravel change the right side opened up quite a bit and the Corys were all out and about. Now that's it grown back in, the Cory's have gone back into hiding. Hard decision, do I throw away plants or not see the Cory's!!!


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Ken Keating1 said:


> Interesting note about the corys, mine do the same when it gets jungle like.
> I don't even see them, they go into hiding and don't come out.
> There for a while I thought some must of died, but when I changed out the gravel they all showed up.


I spoke too soon, this eve I've validated that all Corys are still with me!
They are moving around a bit more since 33% of the tank is trimmed lower!

A tank Update:

Many know that I moved from capped soil to inert BDBS.
With the capped soil I've measured 3.5ppm of NO3 consumption per day and roughly .015ppm Fe per day.

The inert substrate along with plants transitioning from capped soil to straight BDBS has proved interesting.
Fe consumption has climbed and NO3 has dropped.
New stats are @ 1.7ppm of NO3 per day and Fe has reached about .025ppm per day.
Along with this a more rapid decline in GH has also occurred.

TDS is still always dropping every day, measurements are mostly worthless but does prove daily consumption of something?

Ammonia NH3/NH4 has finally reached zero.
Stayed around .25 to .5ppm for many weeks? 
Was this from killing algae or other issues?
Can't say since all phish are now accounted for this eve.

If I can eliminate all of the algae, which should be soon!
I can say that all of the plants look better with inert substrate.
Is this related to their growth habits changing or a drop in alkalinity?
Both happened @ the same time so no great experiment here.

I reckon it will take a few more months to see this to the end.
It seems that plants transitioning to a soil environment is easy.
Moving them to an inert soil can be a whole nother ball game.

Night All!


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Added some NiSO4 to the micro solution and we shall see.


Didn't think about this until this eve.
Addition of Ni may have reduced the NH4?
Also explains less NO3 consumption possibly.
This may also help with the elimination of the algae.
Could even be why it is slowly going away?
Micro batch was and has always been CSM+B with added DTPA 10% Fe.
Why didn't I add the Ni 2+ years ago?
Hell, I added Ni to all of my custom mixes that are used in other tanks.
I reckon this one missing element could have changed the game, my bad!

Sometimes the blinders are on I guess! :surprise:

Moving Forward:
I've purchased 1lb. GLA MicroMix that contains both types of chelates.
Typically this is a Canada only product I believe.
Going to check out @Edward modified mix on this and see how it goes.
Only doing this in the 80G for now.
Since I use Fe as the indicator element Fe will remain the same but other micro elements will be a bit higher in concentration.
I will need to run a new spreadsheet for the dosing thread for sure.

The Moral of the Story:
The experiment just continues on a never ending spiral.
I have noticed that plantings via single stem in the 80G perform better.
The ceramic plugs (multiple stems) with an inert substrate do not grow as well.

Till a later time.
Night All:


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Nothing Goes as Planned:

Another weekend @ camp tomorrow so tanks fall behind some more.
Next Friday is the big cleanup, off work, going to pull all plants and clean the 80G.
This just means prep work every eve next week.
Trimming all plants, Brute cans all get filled, Poret foam sterilized for the swap etc...
Able to trim several species tonight and Sunday eve to get a head start.
Sunday eve is questionable, after camping, showering and poring a cold one any extra activities sometimes fall to the crapper.

This will be the last major cleanup of it's kind!
If success is not achieved albeit very quickly I'm going back to capped topsoil.
Not the Miracle-Gro hot recipe again, phish and shrimp are off limits for the first 6 months with that mix.
It will be capped topsoil only and all 3 tanks will be included.

Until the next time:


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

The Awakening:

Been trimming during the week, slowly catching up with growth.
Last weekend in the heat beat me down really bad, sleep early every eve and still exhausted.

8 days ago my Fe bottomed out so I dosed .27ppm
Last night Fe was zero and ammonia @ .5ppm
This is a .033ppm per day consumption of Fe way more than the soil substrate.
Dosed .30ppm Fe last night, today Fe is @ .08ppm and ammonia is zero!
I would bet the Ni content brought the ammonia down.
Will have to start upping my micro dosing for sure.

I am sure the ammonia has helped the algae growth.
The issue is where is the ammonia coming from?
I feed 2-3 times a week and no phish have perished?
Seems like the day the micros drop off the glass gets a little green.

UV still running and has about cleaned up all of the surface scum.
Big win here, this has been going on since substrate change.

Tomorrow off work, so a big cleanup day is going to happen!

Night All:


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## Janci (Aug 21, 2019)

Hi Guppy
How did the clean up day went?
I hope all is back inside the tank and thriving?!


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Janci said:


> Hi Guppy
> How did the clean up day went?
> I hope all is back inside the tank and thriving?!


Things went quite well.
I tried for pics but hosting site not cooperating @ the moment!

Pulled all plants for two days in buckets and containers.
Complete substrate vac, corner filter cleaned and 24 hours of diatom filter.
Very little plant loss, mostly ratty bottoms from trimming.
Lots to list for sale from the trimming.

This front corner of blyxa japonica started as twelve stems.
It yielded 110 pieces of stems when trimmed, not including little pieces going to trash.









Pogo erectus & L.aromatica mini yielded about 50-60 stems each.
Erio vietnam got split into 5, barclaya at least divided into two.

Ranunculus was rampant, about 120 stems, only kept about 12 that were short in stature.
Long stretched out pieces went to the trash.

This complete event took 4 days due to family, horses, grocery shopping, hay delivery, brush cleanup and all of the other things that get in the way!

Plants look great, water is crystal clear, phish are happy.
All algae was mobile and floating, not attached to plants.
A little was attached to the glass.
Spray bar and heater were another story, some of the best BBA cultures I have seen.

Some pics in the very near future! :smile2:


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## Ken Keating1 (Nov 22, 2017)

Maryland Guppy said:


> This front corner of blyxa japonica started as twelve stems.
> It yielded 110 pieces of stems when trimmed, not including little pieces going to trash.


Wow, that's some blyxa Japonica!


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Ken Keating1 said:


> Wow, that's some blyxa Japonica!


They looked like one tall stem but once pulled and placed in a tray different groups of roots were already formed.
This made trimming each piece very easy.
True blyxa japonica self divides into many segments, each one never getting too large.
B. aubertii gets a bit taller with red tinted tops.
I sold off the aubertii two years ago, I liked the shorter green look.
This also depends on PAR levels regarding color.

It takes too many years and too many species of plants to even begin to learn how they all grow!


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Plants look great, water is crystal clear, phish are happy.


This is good to hear.

So no desire to go back to capped soil?

What are general thoughts now on BDBS? Has it changed your dosing strategy?

And I might be reaching out to you for some of that Blyxa. Have to see if my bunch that melted bounces back or not.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Greggz said:


> This is good to hear.
> 
> So no desire to go back to capped soil?
> 
> ...


Good to hear, yes, but still can't get my pics online right now.

I do not wish to go back to capped soil.
As Joe mentioned pulling plants is easy and carefree, vacuuming is way easier.

I always used BDBS as a cap, I like the look and it's super cheap.

Dosing strategy is very different, Fe consumption has risen to more than double of the capped soil.
Ni content is even more important since tank has never been cycled and without Ni ammonia straddles .25 to .5ppm consistantly.
Add the Ni and it disappears???
This issue with my CSM+B mix that did not contain Ni most likely brought on the algae.
This did not happen with the capped soil, go figure!

I have 10x10 bunches of Blyxa awaiting a new home.
Funny I've never had this plant melt, maybe look poor and wrinkled from shade.

If I sold more plants as I once did my tanks would improve greatly.
Forces me to change a bit more water, vacuum sections of the substrate, elbow room for plants etc...
PITA, all those boxes to USPS, massive trims and such.
The worst part is the journal I keep with someone's real name matched to the "handle" they use on the forum of choice and the list of plants I need to ship them!

Going to test some tank parameters this eve since it's so "fresh" with so much R/O water.
I'll be up late, off work tomorrow, hay delivery not until 10:30am.
Another camping with horses weekend for sure!
My wife never complains about my tanks since our primary hobby is the horses, riding, and camping.
I only need to know on a Monday if the upcoming weekend will be @ camp and I can cover all tank activities without issue during the week.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Solved the pic issue, can no longer load from my phone.
Of course pics or it didn't happen!

All of this attention went to the 80G and plants are growing out the top of the 33G.
I really need to improve my photography skills, but oh well!

Going to make a new micro mix this eve, slightly different than my modified old CSM+B mix.
Won't start dosing till most likely Monday but it will be mixed this eve.
Still dosing my custom micro mix in the 33G but down to about 40ml now.
Don't know if I should continue with it or use the new micro mix everywhere?

I will need to update that "dosing thread" with my new water parameters.

Going to post a new sale thread hopefully Monday eve.
I really have to part with lots of plants.
Over-crowding has became a painful endeavor.

All of the L.arcuata is now gone.
I will not miss it, stringy roots up the whole stem, brevipes is a great alternative to almost keep the same look.

Ludwigia repens, L.Orange and L.Atlantis truly seem to all be the same plant.
I can no longer tell any of them apart after substantial growth.
They are all pink but a bit more PAR and they would all be very red I'm sure.

P.erectus I've got it down, holding @ least 50 stems that do not exhibit lower stem rot!

Erio's all got divided, compressum is good and well rooted, Vietnam variety I may have split too early, waiting for more root growth.
Too large of a clump for the Vietnam if I loose some oh well.

75G is a very neglected tank with a STS substrate for years.
Diatom algae forever here, need to move to BDBS in the near future.

All the B.Japonica that hit the tray!









Many plugs of B.Japonica ready for a new home!









A pic from the middle of the tank.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

One weekend comment so far.

Shade is the Enemy! >>>

Been trimming the 33G and watching diatoms grow in the 75G.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Greggz said:


> So no desire to go back to capped soil?


This is still a questionable topic with me.
The amount of time I am spending screwing with this tank may change my mind!

I don't want too since pulling plants and trimming requires no finesse dealing with the BDBS by itself.

More to come!
I am still being patient.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Good Evening All:

The plant density is slowly going out the door in small USPS boxes!
Everytime I trim some plants for a shipment I've also been tossing to the trash, almost as much as I ship!

Algae is growing on the glass still.
I scrape this toward the bottom and siphon to different flasks.
Testing different chemicals in the flasks and:
ChemiClean won't kill it, Excel won't touch it and neither will AlgaeFix! :frown2:
Going to get some H2O2 this weekend and test in another flask.
Mind you the quantity of chemicals I am testing are still phish safe levels, nothing over the top!
Going to grab a pic of this algae over the weekend and post here.
This algae is not attacking or attaching to the plants.
It may fall to rest on the plants but can be brushed away without effort.

Water Parameters:
All are doing well, thinking of upping PO4 to see if it makes a difference.
NO3 consumption is @ a record low most likely due to NH4 in the water column in an un-cycled tank.
The addition of Ni to the micro mix keeps the NH3 test @ zero.
Without the additional Ni I always see .25 - .50ppm of NH3

New Micro Mix:
A new GLA "Canada" batch will be first dosed this eve!
Both chelates are contained within regarding Fe.
It is modified with additional Ni & Zn.

Plants:
I've not really mentioned parrot feather.
Been growing it for years submerged, it grows rather quick but frequent trimming makes it an awesome plant.

Elodia that my daughter collected locally has also been an unusual plant.
Actually rooting and in a high tech situation is a totally different plant.

Came home with some regular AR from LFS, emersed stems(7).
Getting quite red and dropping the lower leaves right now.

The Saga of a Planted Tank!!!!!!!

Night All: Back to filling boxes!


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

Maryland Guppy said:


> The addition of Ni to the micro mix keeps the NH3 test @ zero.
> Without the additional Ni I always see .25 - .50ppm of NH3


 !!!


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Edward said:


> !!!


What does !!! mean ???

Back to trimming & shipping.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Good Evening All:

Turns out it was not a Planted Tank type of day!
I've trimmed lots the past few days and placed in little boxes.
Tonight I just watch them grow some more!!!

Off Topic:
So I finally got a hole drilled in the "fork" attachment on my tractor.
Quick release loader so I can change implements quick.
The ability to move trailers around is unparalleled, simply amazing!!!
Used my brush grubber to pull trees today too, rip em out with the roots!

Turned out to be a terrestrial trim! >


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Good Evening All:

Slowed down on trimming, nothing near the top yet! >
All 3 tanks need more trimming but taking a break is good.

Been dosing once per week both macro & micro for a while.
WC's have been about 2 gallons per day.
TDS hovering around 120 and always dropping.
Tank parameters are:
Fe = .25ppm
KH = 2
GH = 4
NH3 = 0ppm
NO3 = 10ppm
PO4 = .75ppm

Going to up the PO4 and give a shot of HCl to get back to 1dKH


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Evening All:

Took my KH down to .5dKH plants seem happier @ this level than the previous 2dKH.
Yesterday was the weekly dosing day, .12ppm Fe mix and 15ppm of NO3 mix.
NO3 had dropped to 5ppm so I am assuming NH4 is no longer present since nitrates dropped.

Still have an algae issue among several species, at least a dozen.
I really think more time and trimming will clear these up.
Going to continue with BDBS at this time in the 80G.

Plants:
Ranunculus has finally stopped with the leggy growth.
Short stems now of 3-4" only.

D.Diandra culture is extreme, this one really seems to love the low KH.

Erio compressum, vietnam and the small chain sword are covered in algae.
The new growth is clean in the center but I try not to pull these often.

Ooia manduensis rhizome is kicking out new leaves every few days.

The science project continues!

Night All:


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Good Evening All:

The algae bomb is back since the last extreme cleaning.

I'm really thinking of sifting a few cubic feet of Scott's Premium Topsoil and just capping all 3 tanks.
Even got my screen back that was on loan just for this purpose!
No more Miracle-Gro all purpose since it's not phish ready from the start.

Going to start sifting and get more BDBS, but not in a rush.

I have some of those mini-red solo cups I'm going to start moving plants into.
Of course with soil in them to "see" the change.

The Algae:
This stuff loves the glass and can get 1/4" thick before it falls.
Really doesn't attach to plants but ends up getting caught by plants.
It's hard to kill, have used several flasks with given amounts of water & algae.
Tried to kill with Excel, H2O2, AlgaeFix, and bleach in these flasks.
Not an extreme over-dose @ first but then I up to lethal levels.

I am surely not quitting but merely going back to what has worked best.
No, I am not buying any expensive aquarium soil products.
Performing a yearly substrate change is surely worth a cool fall weekend compared to all of this drama.

Plants:
Most are well but covered in debris.
Constantly growing and fert consumption is @ normal levels.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

We've discussed this via PM, and this is a tough one to figure out.

Plants growing and doing well yet an algae bomb too? Any pics of this nuisance? Curious as to what it looks like. 

In very general terms, it's always a balance of light/CO2/Ferts/maintenance. And both BDBS and soil can grow most everything. Just look at Burr's tank. 

Since you have changed substrates, my thought is you may need to change your approach to other things as well. 

More CO2? Different ratios/amounts of ferts? You may need more in the water column with BDBS vs. soil. Micros?

Just saying it's possible, maybe likely, that you are not far off. 

I can tell you this. When you do get things balanced with inert, there is little/no drama. It's the getting there that can drive you nuts. Before my disaster my tank was easier than it ever has been......just humming along. Glass cleaner than ever. Very little to no algae. Plants happy and showing off. 

But I am sure if I pulled my substrate and went to soil and used my same methods, I would be in for a learning curve and many headaches.

And as you know I have no skin in this game. Inert/active they all work. But the devil is always in the details. 

Anyway, probably meaningless rambling but I have been watching this with great interest, and am very curious as to where it goes from here.


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

You're having this algae in a blasting sand only tank?

Maybe extreme front loading (my word for it) doesnt work as well when there's nothing available at the roots?

Dose micros more often, 3x week at least, or daily even better

Try to maintain more consistent macro levels by dosing weekly or going to a 3x week routine, rather than larding it on then waiting for levels to drop way low.

Just some thoughts based on what I know about your routine (and I may be off about something) Ive always been fascinated by your dosing routine and envious of the results. The only reason I havent tried it myself is because Im too lazy to do all that testing, and too cheap to buy the good test kits.

But it could be that without the insurance of nutrients in the sub for the plants to fall back on, maybe it doesnt work so well with inert sub?

Unless you just want to go back to dirt, try adopting Gregg's routine for a month or so. Or mine, which is 3 equal doses per week, micros and macros on alternating days.

18/5/21 NPK week, .3-.5 Fe/micros per week. High Mg, 10-20 in the water column. 2-3:1 Ca:Mg. 60-70% water change per week

That routine literally cant fail with blasting sand as long as co2 and maintenance is good, like I know yours is. Now it wont grow every plant under the sun obviously, but it'll work well for everything that's not in some 'special needs' category.


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

burr740 said:


> 18/5/21 NPK week, .3-.5 Fe/micros per week. High Mg, 10-20 in the water column. 2-3:1 Ca:Mg. 60-70% water change per week.


Likely the most valuable sentence I have ever read :grin2:


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

burr740 said:


> Try to maintain more consistent macro levels by dosing weekly or going to a 3x week routine, rather than larding it on then waiting for levels to drop way low.


Yeah this is something that I brought up as well.

MG lets levels get down to 10:1 NO3O4, then doses back up. And that was working great with the soil. I know some of my plants (not all) would hate me if I got down to those levels with my sand.

Maybe with soil more is being stored in the substrate and available to the roots? I really don't know.

I do know that my tank seems to appreciate very stable levels. My dosing is designed around keeping water column levels consistent throughout the week with no big swings. 



burr740 said:


> 18/5/21 NPK week, .3-.5 Fe/micros per week. High Mg, 10-20 in the water column. 2-3:1 Ca:Mg. 60-70% water change per week


I found this very interesting. At times we have diverged with our dosing as we explore different approaches.

Funny thing is we have not compared notes in awhile, but we have both settled on very, very similar numbers. My current are 18/7/18, 0.50 weekly Fe, Mg 17 in the water column and Ca:Mg 2:1, 67% water change weekly.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Greggz said:


> Yeah this is something that I brought up as well.
> 
> MG lets levels get down to 10:1 NO3O4, then doses back up. And that was working great with the soil. I know some of my plants (not all) would hate me if I got down to those levels with my sand.
> 
> ...


I wish I could better figure out dosing and adjusting levels as you guys have. I guess I'm more of a follower on what you guys have been doing and seeing how things work. But I continuously have GSA (on glass and plants) and BBA that I deal with. But speaking of which I just recalled seeing my micro mix empty the other day and haven't made any up yet. 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

chayos00 said:


> I wish I could better figure out dosing and adjusting levels as you guys have. I guess I'm more of a follower on what you guys have been doing and seeing how things work. But I continuously have GSA (on glass and plants) and BBA that I deal with. But speaking of which I just recalled seeing my micro mix empty the other day and haven't made any up yet.


Always put dosing in perspective of light level and plant mix. Joe & I both have pretty high light and heavily planted with mostly fast growing stems.

As to BBA, IMO has little to with dosing, other than far too little and unhappy plants. But that is a very long discussion and loads of opinions out there.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Greggz said:


> Plants growing and doing well yet an algae bomb too? Any pics of this nuisance? Curious as to what it looks like.
> 
> Since you have changed substrates, my thought is you may need to change your approach to other things as well.
> 
> ...


Most plants grow well, some retain some algae.
I'll have to take some pics.

My approach, I really can't say.
I tend to wait things out for long periods with only a small change.

CO2 is still a 1.2-1.4 pH drop, checked this again.

I've never used Aquasoil only capped soils.
Capped soil requires a patience when pulling plants, but not bad.
The benefits of using "a soil" rank high for me, it's not that bad.





burr740 said:


> You're having this algae in a blasting sand only tank?
> 
> Maybe extreme front loading (my word for it) doesnt work as well when there's nothing available at the roots?
> 
> ...


Yes in a BDBS tank! :frown2:

Front loading is not extreme either.
Average weekly dose is 15/3/15 NPK & .15Fe, Ca @20ppm about a 3:1 for Mg.
The way low is only 10/1/10 NPK & Fe resides around .12ppm
WC's are about 25% per week about doubled from the capped soil tank.

I don't test a lot, after 1 test per week for a month this becomes very predictive and only a monthly test is really needed.
I only have one good test kit and that is for Fe, which until I purchased was always a huge unknown.


Good Evening All:
Today arrived the EHEIM skim 350 to relieve me of any surface scum and it seems to oxygenate the water well too!
I'll see how this works into tomorrow and put it on a timer tomorrow eve.

Will try and grab some pics tomorrow eve.
BBA is no issue, still on the PVC spraybar but who cares.

More to follow!!!


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

A pic of the algae that has really attached the red crypts.
You can also see what falls of the glass to rest on the substrate.

New surface skimmer is awesome, I would recommend.


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

Some parameter has changed in a big way when plants are dropping leaves and it’s not a bad thing when this happens as long as new leaves grow nice and healthy. Hey, any algae is better than BBA.


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

*Journal of My 80 Gallon Frag Tank &quot;Algae Bomb Again!&quot;*



Edward said:


> Some parameter has changed in a big way when plants are dropping leaves and it’s not a bad thing when this happens as long as new leaves grow nice and healthy. Hey, any algae is better than BBA.




I dunno man, I had this algae once that was hard and black. Like BBA without the beard, it was flat, much like GSA, but it grew as a film, and impossible to manually remove. It turned red like BBA when it was hit with Excel/h2o2, but it took a lot to kill it. What finally eradicated it was removing the old water logged grape wood, using proper Malaysian wood, and being very, very thorough with cleanings. Stuff was a nightmare, almost made me throw in the towel.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Wow hadn't seen this stuff yet, but looks like you have a battle on your hands there.

I hate to use chemicals, but have you tried algaefix?

That's a lot more than I was expecting, and looks like it needs to be beaten back. 

Hopefully things balance out and settle down soon.


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Maryland Guppy said:


> A pic of the algae that has really attached the red crypts.
> 
> You can also see what falls of the glass to rest on the substrate.
> 
> ...



MG...
I battled the same algae, and it was when I switched from ADA aqua soil to BDBS... was a real pain. I can’t say exactly what I did to get rid of it. I hit the tank with algae fix many times. I also dipped plants in a diluted peroxide solution as I was trimming and replanting... none of which made more than a temporary difference. I do know my fert dosing was a bit of a mess as I just started to roll my own, and was dosing a bit more ca and mg than I am now (now = not at all). I was also not dosing enough Ph, and my CO2 was fluctuating a bit mostly because I changed diffuser and my needle valve is a bit finicky, now more consistent.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Edward said:


> Some parameter has changed in a big way when plants are dropping leaves and it’s not a bad thing when this happens as long as new leaves grow nice and healthy. Hey, any algae is better than BBA.


If this were BBA I would have an already decided upon plan of attack!




varanidguy said:


> I dunno man, I had this algae once that was hard and black. Like BBA without the beard, it was flat, much like GSA, but it grew as a film, and impossible to manually remove. It turned red like BBA when it was hit with Excel/h2o2, but it took a lot to kill it. What finally eradicated it was removing the old water logged grape wood, using proper Malaysian wood, and being very, very thorough with cleanings. Stuff was a nightmare, almost made me throw in the towel.


I can clean this up quick from plants.
A tap water rinse, then trim, put back in the tank and they clean up well.
Can't keep pulling all plants from the tank every 6-8 weeks for this???



Greggz said:


> Wow hadn't seen this stuff yet, but looks like you have a battle on your hands there.
> 
> I hate to use chemicals, but have you tried algaefix?
> 
> ...


Stated in a previous post I've tried bleach, Excel, H2O2, and algaefix.
All tested in separate beakers @ almost lethal levels for plants for 5 day periods.
After all of this algae is untouched. 



vvDO said:


> MG...
> I battled the same algae, and it was when I *switched from ADA aqua soil to BDBS... *was a real pain. I can’t say exactly what I did to get rid of it. I hit the tank with algae fix many times. I also dipped plants in a diluted peroxide solution as I was trimming and replanting... none of which made more than a temporary difference. I do know my fert dosing was a bit of a mess as I just started to roll my own, and was dosing a bit more ca and mg than I am now (now = not at all). I was also not dosing enough Ph, and my CO2 was fluctuating a bit mostly because I changed diffuser and my needle valve is a bit finicky, now more consistent.


I really want to blame this on moving from soil to inert substrate!!!


Good Evening All:

I really appreciate replies to this thread.
It keeps me in check @ times and makes me think outside of the box!

My Decision:
Going to pull all plants a few species per eve.
Place in the mini solo cups I have with capped soil.
Give this a short waiting period(1-2 weeks) and see what happens.

Wanted to start with the plants this eve but weekend camping has got me tired.
Next weekend is deck replacement, about 1100 sq.ft. in a herringbone pattern!
Framing is still in great shape so no issues there.
20+ year decking has gotten tired and rough these days.
Planted tank BS is now restricted to only evenings, not entire weekend days!

The Moral of the Story, "Aesop's Fables"
I am getting prepared to replenish the substrate in all 3 tanks.
This will be capped soil that will just be replaced yearly, mid-November.
A once per year predictive schedule I can work with.
No more stretching it out to see what I can get, soil & BDBS are cheap!!!

Night All:


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

It doesn’t need soil-mess, it needs Ramshorn snails as they can fix it in few days and keep it that way.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Edward said:


> It doesn’t need soil-mess, it needs Ramshorn snails as they can fix it in few days and keep it that way.


There are snails in the tank just not a large population.


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

It aint the sand my friend  Ive had that a couple of times, nothing kills it. The only solution is remove affected laves and hope the tank grows out of it. Low P I know brought it on one time. I'd almost guarantee you its a fert imbalance/shortage of something. Or, you damaged those leaves with HCL just bad enough to lower the plants "immune system". Done that before too and brought it on once


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## NEKvt (Jun 17, 2007)

I'm struggling to figure that very algae out right now also. It is a pain... My plants seemingly grow well, but they do it with fuzzies. My tank looks great from a distance lol.

Bump: I'm struggling to figure that very algae out right now also. It is a pain... My plants seemingly grow well, but they do it with fuzzies. My tank looks great from a distance lol.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

burr740 said:


> It aint the sand my friend
> Ive had that a couple of times, nothing kills it.
> The only solution is remove affected laves and hope the tank grows out of it. Low P I know brought it on one time. I'd almost guarantee you its a fert imbalance/shortage of something. Or, you damaged those leaves with HCL just bad enough to lower the plants "immune system". Done that before too and brought it on once


I've never thought it was the sand.
Grown inert substrates in the past.

Just trying to return plants to the original substrate they were grown in.
Loss prevention may be a key element @ this point.

Damaged plants removed and put in the other capped soil tank recover in short time.

HCl was always dosed in the corner filter to allow mixing and prevent burn.
I'm well past that stage now, no longer needing any HCl to lower KH.

When I have time I'll post water parameters, but they are within reason.

Damn Algae!!!


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

Maryland Guppy said:


> I've never thought it was the sand.
> 
> Grown inert substrates in the past.
> 
> ...




I know this might seem stupid of me, but have you tried the “1-2 punch”? Excel/glut and h2o2 dosed together with strong circulation. I’ve done it while desperate and it worked fairly well.


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

If its the algae Im talking about it'll eat the 1-2 punch like an afternoon snack, burp in your face and ask if you got any more.

Nothing kills it that doesnt kill the plant in the process


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

burr740 said:


> If its the algae Im talking about it'll eat the 1-2 punch like an afternoon snack, burp in your face and ask if you got any more.
> 
> Nothing kills it that doesnt kill the plant in the process


This is an interesting mystery.

Have not seen this particular algae before........and from the sounds of it hope I never do!!

Keep up the fight and good luck MG.


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

burr740 said:


> If its the algae Im talking about it'll eat the 1-2 punch like an afternoon snack, burp in your face and ask if you got any more.
> 
> Nothing kills it that doesnt kill the plant in the process




Sounds like my daughter lol. Man, I can’t wait to see how this turns out.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

burr740 said:


> If its the algae Im talking about it'll eat the 1-2 punch like an afternoon snack, burp in your face and ask if you got any more.
> 
> Nothing kills it that doesnt kill the plant in the process


After the beaker tests I knew this was the case! :|
Heck I might kill the plants and the algae would survive. :frown2:

Tank is in really bad shape since 4 days of complete neglect has occurred.
Yeah ferts got dosed, phish got fed but that was it.

Not much better with my deck project for the extended weekend.
Stainless steel nails for the air nailer didn't ship in time so all boards are in with 3 zinc coated nails per board till Tuesday.
Lumber did not ship on Friday so I had to pull a trailer from the side yard and get it myself.
Rain plagued some of the afternoon today, Murphy's law to the extreme.
If it weren't for bad luck I'd have no luck at all!!! >>>

The up side? There is not one right now.
I'm so tired that sipping whiskey is not very appealing this eve.

There is no plan but I'll being trimming in some fashion tomorrow eve.
Need to let these old bones rest before next weekend's continued deck project!


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

Maryland Guppy said:


> After the beaker tests I knew this was the case! :|
> 
> Heck I might kill the plants and the algae would survive. :frown2:
> 
> ...




You must be Irish with that type of luck lol.

Godspeed sir.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Good Evening All:

Changing about 15% water every other eve.
Keep dosing up to standard.
Trimming every species in the tank for clean up.

Started diatom filter this eve and will run for 2 more days.

Losses so far L.cardinalis, L.aromatica, and regular AR.
These just got covered and turned to mush.
There surely will be more losses and many items are growing in other tanks.

I now have mini solo cups with capped soil testing some plants, trying to save.
Will get some pics up before the end of the week.

What a mess! :frown2::frown2::frown2:


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

Man, that would make me desperate enough to start trying bleach dips.

I hope you get this figured out.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Good Evening All:

The status of things is still not good. :frown2:
This is the typical cleaning and trimming in the tray.
The mini solo cups are being used with capped soil.
More of a test to see what happens.









This crap is everywhere.
Nothing chemical will kill it without killing the plant.









Diatom filter just before a recharge.
Tomorrow I will need more diatomaceous earth.
Found 24lb locally for just under $30.









More losses, L.repens, L.sp.red and polycarpa looks like holy hell.
Aromatica mini will be the next to go I am sure.


This tanks Future:
Am I disappointed, the answer is yes.
Giving up, heck no!
Going to keep cleaning and try to salvage what I can.

When some point of equilibrium is achieved with what is left I'll tear it down.
Capped soil will be the go-to in the future and ammannia species will be coming back.

The last weekend of deck replacement is upon me with minimal tank progress going on.

My only worry is how to clean the tank?


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Wow MG that is one the craziest things I haven ever seen.

Looks like a wildfire of algae devouring everything in it's path. 

I wonder if you will ever figure out the root cause? I sure can't.

Anyway, really just wanted to lend some support and let you know I feel your pain. Having just been through an episode, I know how frustrating it can be. 

Hopefully some how it recedes. Good luck and keep the updates coming.


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## ipkiss (Aug 9, 2011)

Hey MG, I don't think it was mentioned but does light reduction slow it down? Since the entire tank is affected, does say, a week of half intensity light make any difference?


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## Deanna (Feb 15, 2017)

Fascinating problem. I wonder if a level 1 UVS would tamp down enough algae spores to help in eradication.


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Damn dude that's awful! Yeah thats the stuff I was talking about, and wow you got it bad. Gonna be interesting how this turns out. I cant think of anything to help that you arent already doing.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Greggz said:


> Looks like a wildfire of algae devouring everything in it's path.


I think the green algae that is easily dispersed cover the plants thus causing damage.
Melting plant matter has brought on some but not much hair algae.
Quick dip of affected plant with an algaefix solution kills the hair algae.
The problem algae still remains though..




ipkiss said:


> Hey MG, I don't think it was mentioned but does light reduction slow it down?


I reduced the right side from 115 to 85 PAR.
Think this stuff grows during moon light too.




Deanna said:


> Fascinating problem. I wonder if a level 1 UVS would tamp down enough algae spores to help in eradication.


Same UV I have used for green water doesn't touch this.
Buying another UV of some other type is not in the cards right now.




burr740 said:


> Damn dude that's awful! Yeah thats the stuff I was talking about, and wow you got it bad. Gonna be interesting how this turns out. I cant think of anything to help that you arent already doing.


Oh, it's the stuff alright, downright sinful, the spawn of Satan himself!

If I move species to my capped soil 33G this algae does not propagate.
It just dies off after a few days never to be seen again.
Both tanks are identical in parameters other than capped soil in the 33G.

Tomorrow I will have the media for the Diatom filter, lots of square feet of decking took up the day, so I didn't make the trip.

Going to trim in the 33G this eve and see if I can move salvageable plants to it.
33G is tight, almost completely filled, no visible substrate now.

Cleaning this tank and Poret foam is my concern right now.
I have peracetic acid, sulphuric acid, and HCl available but I am hoping bleach @ the right ppm will kill it.
Don't think citric and phosphoric acid will "kill" since they are very weak.
I'll pull algae samples from the next diatom filter change out and test in beakers with each.

By the way my phish are doing very well!
Rasboras & corys are loving life these days.

Till Another Eve:


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

No big deal. You can fix this by maintaining the same KH as before. Then, maintain the same water parameters and do not change water. You said you have Ramshorn snails. You need to feed them, give them spinach every day so they work on cleaning your plants and multiply as crazy as possible. Chemicals will not help here. You need tons of snails to help your plants to survive now. You know very well what NO3, PO4, K and Fe your plants need. Give them little Ca and Mg and they will be fine. 

Ah, and do not reduce light intensity, it hurts plants. They love light. May reduce photoperiod but not intensity.

Does it sound crazy enough?


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Edward said:


> Does it sound crazy enough?


Crazy eve, Yes!
Buy in @ 9pm for $500 on a hold'em game and cashed out @ midnight and I'm $600 up, not too shabby.
Plants again tomorrow eve after work.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Some parameters since I decided to check a few things this eve.

Fe-.21ppm
GH-3
KH-1.5
NO3-20ppm
PO4-1.0ppm
pH-6.37
Cond-317 as KCl
TDS-210 as 442
ORP-319
Temp-71.2

Going to add some phosphate this eve, only.

Still trimming down the 33G tank looking for room.


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

GH 3?
Is it dGH 3? Good if it is Ca, not Mg.

Fe 0.21 ppm?
Don’t need more if this is the proxy to the other trace elements.

Conductivity 317 as KCl, and 210 as 442?
Well, 317 KCl is 614 µS, and 210 as 442 is 308 µS, something fishy here. The 614 µS and 308 µS don’t look alike. Can you see it too? No biggie, just wondering. 

PO4 1 ppm?
That means that your plants don’t need more, they are saturated. 

dKH 1.5 and NO3 20 ppm is fine. Give them more time and they will recover just fine.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Edward said:


> GH 3?
> Is it dGH 3? Good if it is Ca, not Mg.
> 
> Fe 0.21 ppm?
> ...


dGH @ 3, 20ppm of Ca and guessing 4-5ppm of Mg.

Fe stays the same, no dosing.

Using a new multi-meter.
When selecting a parameter it shows a reference on the sidebar.

COND 317µS as KCl
TDS 210ppm as 442


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

That’s an excellent machine. 
You can now measure your ORP in mV. The value should correlate with DOC dissolved organic carbon and water changes. Very good, it will keep you busy.

This unit is complex. It can measure µS conductivity, TDS ppm NaCl and ppm KCl and ppm 442 calibrations. The actual calibration ratio is very wide, from 0.20 to 7.99. In other words, the calibration can go very wrong. If I wasn’t sure, I would measure 300 mg kitchen salt dissolved in 1 L demineralized water. It should read 300 ppm as NaCl, 318 ppm as KCl, 419 ppm as 442 and 614 µS conductivity. 

You will have more fun with this unit than with cable TV.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Edward said:


> That’s an excellent machine.
> 
> This unit is complex. It can measure µS conductivity, TDS ppm NaCl and ppm KCl and ppm 442 calibrations.
> I would measure 300 mg kitchen salt dissolved in 1 L demineralized water. It should read 300 ppm as NaCl, 318 ppm as KCl, 419 ppm as 442 and 614 µS conductivity.


Tested 300mg salt in 1000g water, all measured by weight.

Salt measured @ 289.8 as NaCl, TDS 424 @ as 442
Going to leave all calibrations as they are @ this point.
Close enough and better than a grenade!

For being a re-purposed meter destined for the trash, no worries here!


Tank Update:
More species will got to the trash for sure.
If the 33G is still supporting the growth, it is easy to trash!

I may have reached the break-point now!
The un-treatable algae has about given up.
Tonight is diatom filter and a prayer for sure.
An AlgaeFix treatment this eve for sure.

More of an update as this progresses.


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

That's great, and did you check conductivity µS?


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Edward said:


> That's great, and did you check conductivity µS?


Conductivity was @ 622µS during that test.
Nice find on this meter.

Going to make another solution and calibrate it soon.


Good Afternoon All:

Using this weekend for aquarium maintenance.

In the 80G the algae is @ bay now.
Still running diatom filter every day cleaning up the mess.
New diatomaceous earth from pool store is nice.
It clogs quicker than the previous brand but I think it's polishing the water better.
Algaefix treatment now for clean up of remaining plants, hair algae outbreak.
BBA has gone mad on the spray bar, even underneath, go figure!

33G is about all trimmed down with healthy plants.
It needs a light vacuum and some water changed today.
Only algae is BBA on the spray bar.

75G is really messy but has lots of good plants within.
Some vacuum and WC this eve too.

Recon I'll grab some pics of all 3 tomorrow eve and post.

I've got a lot of theories about this whole algae issue but am really unsure.
More time and the 80G may pull through.

Going to trim before the poker game starts!


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Evening All:

Over 24 hours have passed since I removed the diatom filter.
Water has just clouded back up again.
Algaefix has turned all of the other hair algae very grey, it is on it's way out.

The problem algae disperses everywhere, lowers PAR and will rest on all plants.
During the days of diatom filter usage all plants showed a lot of new growth.

If I tear this tank down and change the substrate I fear that none of these plants can go back in it.
Maybe this will just happen all over again?

Going to keep trimming down and see where it all goes I guess.

Any thoughts or ideas will surely be considered.
There is not much left to try though.

Plants and variety I'm not worried about, I can easily get more plants.
Many species are still growing quite well in my other tank.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Tank is doing better that expected so far.
One more AlgaeFix treatment this eve or tomorrow.
Still a bit cloudy but not too bad.
Diatom filter will run again all weekend for sure!

Three tanks being trimmed kind of all @ the same time can be overwhelming.
@burr740 you seem to know this algae from the past, how does it end???
Could this have been introduced from other plants???

Plants in capped soil cups seem to be doing way better than just planted in the inert substrate.
Comparison was done on purpose with several species.

Nightmare Continues with Patience! :::


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Nightmare Continues with Patience! :::


Very curious as to what caused this as well.

Mostly because I would like to avoid it!

Glad to see it's slowly getting better. My guess is once it's gone you might never see it again. Doubt it has anything to with sand, but who knows?


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Plants in capped soil cups seem to be doing way better than just planted in the inert substrate.
> Comparison was done on purpose with several species.


 Yes. I have planted five Waliichii in inert sand and one in capped potting soil cup in the middle. All under hundreds of PAR. The five in inert sand are bending, twisting, and what not, trying to avoid the sunburn. But the one with the little soil is open, colored, in straight upright position and asking for more sun.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Greggz said:


> Very curious as to what caused this as well.
> 
> Glad to see it's slowly getting better. My guess is once it's gone you might never see it again. Doubt it has anything to with sand, but who knows?


This will most likely be resolved and never to be seen again!
The issue will have no definitive answer!




Edward said:


> Yes. I have planted five Waliichii in inert sand and one in capped potting soil cup in the middle. All under hundreds of PAR. The five in inert sand are bending, twisting, and what not, trying to avoid the sunburn. But the one with the little soil is open, colored, in straight upright position and asking for more sun.


IMHO plants like a "soil" of some sort, it is a preference for sure.
Ammannias will most likely not return to my tank without soil.

I want some of these species back in my tank!
I know where this is going for sure!
This weekend will involve sifting/screening of soil to prepare for the inevitable.


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

Maryland Guppy said:


> I know where this is going for sure!
> This weekend will involve sifting/screening of soil to prepare for the inevitable.


 Why sifting/screening and what kind do you recommend?


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Maryland Guppy said:


> T
> @*burr740* you seem to know this algae from the past, how does it end???
> Could this have been introduced from other plants???
> 
> ...


I had a 20L get hit hard with it and it was brutal. took 8-10 weeks of intense pruning of affected leaves (which were aplenty) and wiping the sides and vacuuming the sub - every week with a 70% WC. Along with direct peroxide spray underwater, just before the drain with the current off. And a double dose of metricide right after. 

Bunch of midground stuff in there mostly. Big-leaved plants got hit the hardest. Was pinching leaves off faster than the plant could replace them. But finally it began get less and slowly clear up, plants were still growing well so most things eventually made it.

No idea where or how it originates. Came on mine all of a sudden, 3 small tanks all had a brief spell of it around the same time. Only the one turned into a long drawn out issue. Never any sign of it in the big tanks.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Maryland Guppy said:


> IMHO plants like a "soil" of some sort, it is a preference for sure.
> Ammannias will most likely not return to my tank without soil.
> 
> I want some of these species back in my tank!
> ...


Well you certainly had great success with soil, and given your current issues, I can't blame you if you go back to what you know best. 

My guess is if you continue with inert, you may need to shift your dosing strategy a bit. IME, inert may require higher water column levels for the majority of plants. 

Now Wallachii and Ammannias are special cases. They are known to prefer rich soil and lean water column. Vin's kill tank summed that up pretty well. Both are more difficult with inert.

Funny I had Wallachii going pretty well for the first time ever after lowering KH to almost zero, but lost it in the crash. May have to give some Ammannia a whirl again just to see what happens. 

Keep the updates coming, as this is getting more interesting all the time. Either way, I am really looking forward to seeing where things go next.


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## SingAlongWithTsing (Jun 11, 2015)

burr740 said:


> I had a 20L get hit hard with it and it was brutal. took 8-10 weeks of intense pruning of affected leaves (which were aplenty) and wiping the sides and vacuuming the sub - every week with a 70% WC. Along with direct peroxide spray underwater, just before the drain with the current off. And a double dose of metricide right after.
> 
> Bunch of midground stuff in there mostly. Big-leaved plants got hit the hardest. Was pinching leaves off faster than the plant could replace them. But finally it began get less and slowly clear up, plants were still growing well so most things eventually made it.
> 
> No idea where or how it originates. Came on mine all of a sudden, 3 small tanks all had a brief spell of it around the same time. Only the one turned into a long drawn out issue. Never any sign of it in the big tanks.


joe was this the 20L with some type of aquasoil? or very old BDBS? my tank's been going through something similar to MG's after i switched over to miracle gro but not as bad and I wonder if it's just an organics issue


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

SingAlongWithTsing said:


> joe was this the 20L with some type of aquasoil? or very old BDBS? my tank's been going through something similar to MG's after i switched over to miracle gro but not as bad and I wonder if it's just an organics issue



All three that experienced a mild breakout were small sand tanks, 20 gal, ranging from 6 months to 2 years old. Out of those 3 only one got a bad case of the stuff.


I really think it had something to do with HCL dosing. The 20s were always very prone to suffer plant damage if I didnt immediately stir the water up real good after adding the HCL. My theory is that the plants got unknowingly damaged and became susceptible to it. But its just a theory


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

burr740 said:


> I really think it had something to do with HCL dosing. The 20s were always very prone to suffer plant damage if I didnt immediately stir the water up real good after adding the HCL. My theory is that the plants got unknowingly damaged and became susceptible to it. But its just a theory


If this was my 33G I would think I was onto something.
This tank had much HCl dosing and no issues.

The 80G has been all RODI since the substrate change.
Maybe I dropped the tank .5dKH once or twice.
When I use HCl it's always in the corner filter and gets diluted and takes a while to get sucked up and go through the spraybar, then travels across the surface.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Evening All:

Third AlgaeFix treatment happened yesterday.
This was only to eradicate the hair type algae.
The dreadful stuff is kind of at a stalemate now!

I can finally say I see lots of good new growth.
Much trimming is still needed but not in the cards for this eve.
Isn't that what the weekend is for?
Only in the eve, more deck work is upon me.
Tested furnace this eve and all is working well and a twelve point buck is most likely going down in the early morning!

I really need to get these tanks back on auto-pilot in a hurry. >


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Evening All:
> 
> Third AlgaeFix treatment happened yesterday.
> This was only to eradicate the hair type algae.
> ...


A 12 pointer you say? Have you been tracking him long?


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

varanidguy said:


> A 12 pointer you say? Have you been tracking him long?


Only tracking with the camera on a tree.
Passes through in the early am.
Past week several times.


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Only tracking with the camera on a tree.
> 
> Passes through in the early am.
> 
> Past week several times.




That counts! May your aim be true and your freezer full.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)




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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

Maryland Guppy said:


>




Awesome! I hope you bag him!


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Good Evening All:

I changed my title and I hope it's not a lie! >

I actually have red plants again!
That is the new growth @ least.

The problem algae finally just stopped? :|
No more on the glass or plants, a bit floating about but not reproducing.
I have a lot of messy plants with new tops but very poor bottoms.
I can live with this and allow them to grow back up!

I'm trimming so I'll grab pics after the diatom filter clears things up.
The problem algae has released from the glass and ends up on the substrate.
No longer in the large quantity when multiplying daily.
I know damn well AlgaeFix didn't stop the growth since bucket tests failed.

My trimming tray is no longer as green as it was, if anyone noticed that pic.

Tank is filled with plugs and mini-solo-cups with capped soil.

I'm a little bit excited and hope it holds true!!!
Some pics for tomorrow for sure!

Regarding that deer, I hope my eldest son nails that one Monday early am.!!!


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Well my photos arevery poor compared to everything I have seen here this eve! :frown2:

May not look like it but algae is under control now.









Red tips are starting to come back finally.









I've decided that I am going back to capped soil.
Not in a hurry for this but getting prepared.
Once all is trimmed, looking better, and in soil cups it will happen.

Tested all my tanks yesterday for every parameter I can check.
Only surprise was 80ppm NO3 in my 75G.
Going to do several 20 gallon WC's this week to bring this lower.

Made a KCl storage solution for pH probes.
Soaking them all to determine what to keep and what to trash.

KH readings seemed a bit off this go around.
Made a weak acid .1 n solution to test alkalinity with pH probe and titration method.
Today test showed .5 dKH difference roughly.
Going to do a 3 point pH calibration on the best probe and weigh out solution one more time.

Till another eve!


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## SingAlongWithTsing (Jun 11, 2015)

did you bump up the ferts in the tank infested with the algae? sorry havent been keeping up with the journal


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

SingAlongWithTsing said:


> did you bump up the ferts in the tank infested with the algae? sorry havent been keeping up with the journal




I’d say he did but it was by utilizing capped soil. Supercharge plant growth to overtake algae.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

SingAlongWithTsing said:


> did you bump up the ferts in the tank infested with the algae? sorry havent been keeping up with the journal


Not really.
When NO3 reaches 10ppm I dose 25ppm
Fe is usually .15ppm when this happens so I dose .10ppm




varanidguy said:


> I’d say he did but it was by utilizing capped soil. Supercharge plant growth to overtake algae.


These cups are so small I doubt much gets in the water column.
I felt that if I didn't go with the cups all plants would be lost.

Seems like when I got the worst plants into soil cups the rotting stopped.
Think the rotting plant matter was feeding the algae outbreak not so much the ferts.
The hair algae that AlgaeFix did correct was a bi-product of all the turmoil.
This is just my take on it, I could be all wrong???


I wish this on no-one for sure.
Maybe I reacted too slow thinking it would correct itself?
Tend to wait things out too long just to see what will happen.
It does add a notch on experience though!
The next 3 weeks will get a maintenance dose of AlgaeFix per week.
Don't want the hairy green to impact all this new growth.

Need to clean my Poret foam, should I use bleach or a weak acid?
This is a serious question, replies welcome.

Need to buy more of those mini-solo cups too!


----------



## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Need to clean my Poret foam, should I use bleach or a weak acid?
> This is a serious question, replies welcome.


 I would use vinegar and then flush it with tap. Bleach can damage the plastic material and is deadly to fish and plants.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Edward said:


> I would use vinegar and then flush it with tap. Bleach can damage the plastic material and is deadly to fish and plants.


Yeah bad idea to use bleach, I did so with some 4" Spong filters of poret and had to replace them. Granted I didn't use a weak solution and let it sit overnight. I just hose the crap out of mine to clean them. 

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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

How about gluteraldehyde? Glut after all is a medical sterilizing solution.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Potassium permanganate. I forgot about this product until just now. It's some sort of a organic oxidizer or something like that that will act as a disinfectant.

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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Edward said:


> I would use vinegar and then flush it with tap. Bleach can damage the plastic material and is deadly to fish and plants.





chayos00 said:


> Yeah bad idea to use bleach, I did so with some 4" Spong filters of poret and had to replace them. Granted I didn't use a weak solution and let it sit overnight. I just hose the crap out of mine to clean them.





vvDO said:


> How about gluteraldehyde? Glut after all is a medical sterilizing solution.





chayos00 said:


> Potassium permanganate. I forgot about this product until just now. It's some sort of a organic oxidizer or something like that that will act as a disinfectant.


I typically use a 600ppm bleach solution and rinse with Prime???
Looking for something better maybe?

This is the algae accumulation in the corner.
Previously this would be an inch thick in two days!
This is a four day quantity.
Just shaken down down from trimming.









Some of the saddest S.repens on the web!









Red's are increasing exponentially daily now.









I should be trimming more this eve but don't have the will power.


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Plants growing well is a great sign. You'll be able to trim your way out of it in 4-5 weeks. Keep tossing the bad parts and manually remove all that you can in the meantime.


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## RLee (Sep 21, 2008)

Edward said:


> I would use vinegar and then flush it with tap. Bleach can damage the plastic material and is deadly to fish and plants.


What about using hydrogen peroxide?


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

RLee said:


> What about using hydrogen peroxide?


 I suppose it does the job, but I found vinegar more convenient. Who got a gallon of fresh hydrogen peroxide at home? And if I do, I cannot leave it in a bucket for few hours and reuse it again, it will dissipate and become ineffective. On the other hand, vinegar is cheap and widely available, it is in every kitchen. I reuse a gallon marked as “For aquarium” so no one takes it for cooking. Filter sponges and other hardware can be in it safely for hours, plants dipped for 10 seconds and flushed with tap water. Simple.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Boom 4 gallons of hydrogen peroxide. I may have to buy a case too! 

McKesson Hydrogen Peroxide Solution 1 Gal, 4 Each
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00839SWQE/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_ICUWDb0FRT0EA

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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Good Evening All:

The recovery is for real.
As @burr740 stated I'll be able to trim my way out of this now.

Just watching plants grow right now!


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Good Evening All:
> 
> The recovery is for real.
> As @burr740 stated I'll be able to trim my way out of this now.
> ...


Good to hear!

The interesting thing will be if you go back to the soil you have been sifting????


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Greggz said:


> Good to hear!
> 
> The interesting thing will be if you go back to the soil you have been sifting????


Good thing to ask.
I have several single stems growing in only the inert BDBS.
They are surely not what was growing in the capped soil.
P.yatabeanus especially @ the moment.

A single stem of ammannia senegalensis was dropped off yesterday to test in the BDBS.
Glandulosa I'll not move back to this tank until soil is capped, why kill it?

Some plants don't care but some do very much.
I want all options open for growth.


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## RLee (Sep 21, 2008)

chayos00 said:


> Boom 4 gallons of hydrogen peroxide. I may have to buy a case too!
> 
> McKesson Hydrogen Peroxide Solution 1 Gal, 4 Each
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00839SWQE/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_ICUWDb0FRT0EA
> ...


WalMart has it for .88 cents a quart so $3.52 a gallon so $14.04 = 4 gallon.



Edward said:


> I suppose it does the job, but I found vinegar more convenient. Who got a gallon of fresh hydrogen peroxide at home? And if I do, I cannot leave it in a bucket for few hours and reuse it again, it will dissipate and become ineffective. On the other hand, vinegar is cheap and widely available, it is in every kitchen. I reuse a gallon marked as “For aquarium” so no one takes it for cooking. Filter sponges and other hardware can be in it safely for hours, plants dipped for 10 seconds and flushed with tap water. Simple.


All true but vinegar smells bad. :frown2:



Maryland Guppy said:


> Good Evening All:
> 
> The recovery is for real.
> As @burr740 stated I'll be able to trim my way out of this now.
> ...


Glad to hear things are getting better.


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

RLee said:


> All true but vinegar smells bad. :frown2:


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## Desert Pupfish (May 6, 2019)

Edward said:


>


So would you use malt vinegar for a blackwater biotope then?


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

I prefer brown gravy on fries, second option would be malt vinegar!!! >
Thank you for the kind words on recovery all! :grin2:

I only wish I could pinpoint what made the change.
Think the algae ran it's course??? I can't say.

Cleaned up the pile of algae in the corner and no more has appeared.
Lots of trimming is in my very near future in all 3 tanks.

33G has suffered extreme neglect, tripartita & red myrio have grown out of the water on left side.
It is all entombed in a 2 inch thick mat of riccia, go figure. :frown2:
Don't get me wrong on this everything is healthy and growing well.

Cold weekend with a little deck work for Sunday.
Just going to clean up all loose ends, Saturday morn will be my first heavy frost and I'm not going to work in the cold.


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

So, gonna be cold there as well? Sounds like both of us will be spending more time with a scissor in hand vs a hammer 
I am ever amazed how certain plants can get a good trim (say 4-6" below water surface), then a few days later you look at the tank and there are a few stems almost touching the surface. Oh well.
Good to hear you have a good handle on the algae outbreak. Kinda been following along - mostly to see how you handle the issue (for future reference).


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Immortal1 said:


> So, gonna be cold there as well? Sounds like both of us will be spending more time with a scissor in hand vs a hammer
> 
> Good to hear you have a good handle on the algae outbreak. Kinda been following along - mostly to see how you handle the issue (for future reference).


My first frost will be tonight @ 26°F
Cold fingers ripping up old deck and replacing ain't happening.
Went from 76° and humid one week to the 40's next week.
This weekend bringing frost @ night.
To hell with the hammer, nail gun, compressor and 3" ribbed & coated stainless nails!!! >>>

Handle the Issue:
Patience maybe, with a lot of complaining.
Tom made a mention of such algae, sorry I can't quote it right now, but to let it run it's course.
It was a long course though and I was beginning to have doubts.

I still change little water, maybe 10-15% per week.
Still dosing both macro & micro once per week.
The only real change was adding 1ppm PO4 to the water column on weekly dosing.
PAR levels are back up since the water is much less turbid.
Cloudy water dropped 115PAR to 85 easily.
Diatom filter may have been the saving grace???

I'll need to update the dosing thread here over the weekend.

I still have a lot of plants but in poor condition right now.
Getting better every day though.









Night All:


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Evening All:

Recovery is complete!
No more green water after trimming in the tray!
Few extra species from LFS today too!
Mini Solo cups are every where!









Night!


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Good Evening All:

I am enjoying watching plants grow much more than wondering how to strategically eliminate algae.

New plants were rotala wallichii & bossii, and some E.diversifolia.
Bossii was emersed but had 3" of submerged growth on them, so should be good!

A few more trim downs should get all the bottoms gone that look shabby.

S.repens is sad but growing, not like it would in soil but I am just keeping it in the inert substrate right now.
When and if it gets tall enough I'll trim and replant this one.

The Recovery Continues!


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

Phenomenal! This recovery is truly inspirational. Let all the newbies see this and realize algae, even the nightmare kind, can be just a temporary setback if you’re patient and diligent.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

varanidguy said:


> Phenomenal! This recovery is truly inspirational. Let all the newbies see this and realize algae, even the nightmare kind, can be just a temporary setback if you’re patient and diligent.


Big words to describe such a mess?
Lost a lot of plants, some really nice ones too.
Most don't have the variety and quantity, for many it would have been a total wipe out.

Going from soil to inert has forced me to learn what species accept this transition and the ones that don't like it so much.
Learning curve again!
Need to write these down in a list for sure.

I'm definitely going back to capped soil.
Mini solo cups with soil are biding me time to get ready for the swap.
Since I don't have a massive phish load as many do I've always been determined to disprove the weekly 50% water change for years.

I'd also never recommend anyone to follow my methods.
I am still experimenting as far as I'm concerned.

The New Plan:
Capped soil in all tanks, not a "hot" soil but just a topsoil that is capped.
Yearly replacement will most likely be needed but that is better than the change to inert substrate.

No time to write the novel I'd like to include describing this experience.

Back to trimming!

Night All:


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

Maryland Guppy said:


> The New Plan:
> Capped soil in all tanks, not a "hot" soil but just a topsoil that is capped.


 You must have a good reason, why topsoil and not potting soil and is there CO2?
Thanks


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Edward said:


> You must have a good reason, why topsoil and not potting soil and is there CO2?
> Thanks


When I first added phish and shrimp to the phishless tank they all died.
After first 4 months I was able to keep phish and @ about the 8th month mark shrimp survived.
I now have critters that need to be immediately placed in the tank.

CO2 in all my tanks.

Good reminder @Edward I need to take my 20 pounder to work and fill it!
Liquid is gone and running on gas right now.


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Good reminder @Edward I need to take my 20 pounder to work and fill it!
> Liquid is gone and running on gas right now.


 You still have few days left in it, unlike with a car gas tank.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Edward said:


> You still have few days left in it, unlike with a car gas tank.


Almost 30 days for me with my 20 lb tank on just gas [email protected] 80cc/min flow. 

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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Edward said:


> You still have few days left in it, unlike with a car gas tank.





chayos00 said:


> Almost 30 days for me with my 20 lb tank on just gas [email protected] 80cc/min flow.


Efficient reactors gets me about 9 months on 188 gallons that includes 3 tanks.
Not too shabby, 113 gallons worth gets a full 1.4pH drop and the 75G gets just a bit that I've never measured.

Evening All:

So my attention has been so much on the 80G that the 33G has gone mad!!!









R.bossii is really noticeable with the emersed bottoms.
Will need to see how this one grows?









New plants and new growth are looking better!









S.repens is going to take a while, it looks rough right now!
This will really need a lot of growth before a trim can happen.
For me this one has never been a super fast grower, kind of like watching paint dry?









So I am moving to trimming the 33G this eve.
It needs attention really bad, I've only been pinching the l.peruensis as I walk by pushing it back in the substrate.
This is not really trimming by any means.
Focus definitely moved to this tank this evening.


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

Maryland Guppy said:


> New plants and new growth are looking better!


 These look perfect!


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

Journal of My 80 Gallon Frag Tank "Recovery is Real"










What’s your secret ?


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Edward said:


> What’s your secret ?


The secret must be the photo-shop skills of others here! >

I tend to take the pics and post, I don't have time to edit the pics! :grin2:


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Evening All:

More unedited pics! >

A shot from the side sort of pointing toward the front.
My 60+ stems of p.erectus dwindled down horribly bad.
New growth is coming along though.









And a few different pics from the top of the tank today.


















Made lots of RODI today, 50%WC on my 75G, got NO3 down to 40ppm!!!:grin2:
Had to dose everything but NO3 to keep it on track when done.
Between plant uptake and one more WC I may be back on track with dosing.

RO 1 micron filter was filthy, after changing I'd bet I'm back up to 225GPD.
Noticeable flow increase right after the change.
DI resin is starting to change color quick so a new cartridge and carbon cartridge on order to arrive next week.
Don't think I need new RO membranes yet, think the 4.22 TDS is related to the DI resin losing it's effectiveness. 

New rotala wallichii & bossii are looking great after a week.
Macrandra getting quite red and the magenta is on the uphill climb after going in the capped soil cups.

I can't believe I have been struggling with inert since March of this year. :frown2:
I've tried to be determined with totally inert substrate but I've failed.
Can't say why, I've used an inert quartz substrate for years prior?

More trimming for this eve!

Night All:


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Maryland Guppy;
So my attention has been so much on the 80G that the 33G has gone mad!!!
[IMG said:


> https://i.pinimg.com/originals/18/be/58/18be58fb20397a265f7e6758ca0f92a5.jpg[/IMG]



Wow, and I thought my tank was getting overgrown :grin2:


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Sometimes things get out of focus when one is attending to the madness!!! >


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

I think you simply dose too lean for inert to work. Those last days/week or whatever while the levels drop to re-dosing levels seem...pretty doggone lean

At least that's the only thing I can figure out


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Efficient reactors gets me about 9 months on 188 gallons that includes 3 tanks.
> Not too shabby, 113 gallons worth gets a full 1.4pH drop and the 75G gets just a bit that I've never measured.


I'm assuming no sumps running, just canisters? A 20lbs tank would run for about 3 months total time for me before needing to be changed, just noticed it seems close to a month of that is gas in the cylinder alone. 



Maryland Guppy said:


> Made lots of RODI today, 50%WC on my 75G, got NO3 down to 40ppm!!!:grin2:
> Had to dose everything but NO3 to keep it on track when done.
> Between plant uptake and one more WC I may be back on track with dosing.
> 
> ...


What RO membranes are you running? I went to spectrapure 99% rejection ones last year, however I can't say they have lived up to their GPD ratings, vs the BRS Dow ones my system came with. Granted TDS was much lower with the Spectrapure versions. Also what's your pre TDS to the RO system? In the summer I see up to 400-450 TDS with a post RO TDS of 3. However, now that "winter" has come in AZ, our TDS drops to about 200 and then I'm getting about 1 TDS RO water.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

burr740 said:


> I think you simply dose too lean for inert to work. Those last days/week or whatever while the levels drop to re-dosing levels seem...pretty doggone lean
> 
> At least that's the only thing I can figure out


This could be very true.
It keeps me out of the 50% WC game though.
I don't like the water change game much and I know I can get the plant growth without it quite easily.

Plants do seem to enjoy a "soil" type substrate! :wink2:

And after measuring plant uptake via water column for so long, mixing so many bottles of micro & macro solutions, I've grown tired of over doing it!
KISS method for me these days, I'm too old & grey to struggle growing plants.





chayos00 said:


> I'm assuming no sumps running, just canisters? A 20lbs tank would run for about 3 months total time for me before needing to be changed, just noticed it seems close to a month of that is gas in the cylinder alone.
> 
> What RO membranes are you running? I went to spectrapure 99% rejection ones last year, however I can't say they have lived up to their GPD ratings, vs the BRS Dow ones my system came with. Granted TDS was much lower with the Spectrapure versions. Also what's your pre TDS to the RO system? In the summer I see up to 400-450 TDS with a post RO TDS of 3. However, now that "winter" has come in AZ, our TDS drops to about 200 and then I'm getting about 1 TDS RO water.


No sump for me.

Using DOW Filmtec high silicate removal membranes 100GPD x2 in parallel.
Tuning concentrate water flow gets me around 225GPD.
Pre TDS is between 65 - 115 depending on time of year.
These membranes with good flushing practices I should @ least get 3 years from them.
All of this came from Marine Depot, before I purchase new membranes I'll reach out 
into the market place and figure out how to make a cheap array of four membranes 
and target 400GPD to expedite making water.
I hate waiting all that time.

I go through 4-5 1-micron sediment filters per year.
They tend to get really brown and inhibit flow rather quick.

Canister filters are a no for me.
I've chosen to sacrifice a rear corner for a Poret foam corner filter.
Cheap Harbor Freight pump out the back to reactor and then into spraybar.
Old school reactor filled with bio-balls even, occasionally a few bubbles escape but WTH!!!
I should sell all of the canister filters I have sitting around in buckets!


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Plants do seem to enjoy a "soil" type substrate! :wink2:


 Indeed they do. Im coming to realize this more and more over the past year. At first I wasnt impressed by aquasoil. But now a year and a half later, so many things grow better in that tank than sand. Not everything, some stuff is no different, but a lot of stem plants that struggle in sand (where Ive been chasing ferts trying to correct) immediately grow nice in soil.

Limno indica is a good example., It would do OK in sand, even used it in last years Dutch entry, but its always been a bit spindly and long in the internodes. Been close to tossing it a few times but I always keep a couple just to have it. Still grew fast as hell. Well I stuck a couple in the soil tank and POOF, they immediately fluffed up and growing great now. Same ferts, same everything

No lanky internodes here


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

Clay and humus function as a buffer, protection, nutrient storage and ion transition property for complex chemical processes where roots do wonders, @Dianna Walstad was right.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

burr740 said:


> Indeed they do. Im coming to realize this more and more over the past year. At first I wasnt impressed by aquasoil. But now a year and a half later, so many things grow better in that tank than sand. Not everything, some stuff is no different, but a lot of stem plants that struggle in sand (where Ive been chasing ferts trying to correct) immediately grow nice in soil.
> 
> Limno indica is a good example., It would do OK in sand, even used it in last years Dutch entry, but its always been a bit spindly and long in the internodes. Been close to tossing it a few times but I always keep a couple just to have it. Still grew fast as hell. Well I stuck a couple in the soil tank and POOF, they immediately fluffed up and growing great now. Same ferts, same everything


It doesn't need to be a "hot" soil either, just a form of soil!
Some plants never miss a beat, my algae bomb proved that!

Ambulia we'll call it.
I've grown this from 12dKH to 1dKH it doesn't care.
Give it soil and the nodes are 1/4" apart with good lighting!




Edward said:


> Clay and humus function as a buffer, protection, nutrient storage and ion transition property for complex chemical processes where roots do wonders, @Dianna Walstad was right.


I've read Dianna's work @ least 5 times over.
50/50 for me, many things in the document I don't agree with and many that I do.
Regardless, soil is good!!!


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## SingAlongWithTsing (Jun 11, 2015)

Maryland Guppy said:


> It doesn't need to be a "hot" soil either, just a form of soil!
> Some plants never miss a beat, my algae bomb proved that!
> 
> Ambulia we'll call it.
> ...


which brand of soil are you using MG? I'm thinking of tearing down my 125 and moving somethings around again, might end up being a full tear down and swap out the miracle-gro performance container mix (majority of it seem to be peat) for another type of soil


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

SingAlongWithTsing said:


> which brand of soil are you using MG? I'm thinking of tearing down my 125 and moving somethings around again, might end up being a full tear down and swap out the miracle-gro performance container mix (majority of it seem to be peat) for another type of soil


When I was Phishless I used Miracle-Gro All Purpose.
It was too "hot" and shrimp didn't survive for long.
Moved to Scott's Premium Topsoil in my oldest son's tank, shrimp and phish had no issues from the start.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

SingAlongWithTsing said:


> miracle-gro performance container mix (majority of it seem to be peat) for another type of soil


Thought to comment more on this.

I sift all soils with a screen, this removes rocks and large debris and reduces a large bag by 1/3
The screen is expanded metal like gutter guarding or metal lathe for plaster.
Then it all gets submerged and I mean anything that floats is netted and removed.
In the end it all sinks and is black and stinky! >
Cap breaches were my worry, if the above is done well and one pulls plants anything drug up falls quick, does not cloud water, and easily vacuumed up.


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## Streetwise (May 24, 2019)

I haven't tried using a screen. I have spent hours hand-sifting. I found that the sand/gravel cap depth was the key to keep things under control, and allow you to plant. I always ended up with some wood bits and mulm, but shrimp love them.


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## SingAlongWithTsing (Jun 11, 2015)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Thought to comment more on this.
> 
> I sift all soils with a screen, this removes rocks and large debris and reduces a large bag by 1/3
> The screen is expanded metal like gutter guarding or metal lathe for plaster.
> ...


I sifted out the perlite and wood bits with a plastic knitting mesh lol, and left the stuff sit in a tote for 2 days scooping out anything that floated. 

I might be pulling too plants out too hard/quickly because it turns to cloud city when I make major changes (33%+ of the foot print) lol. Most annoying part is cleaning up what lands on the plants.


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

*Journal of My 80 Gallon Frag Tank &quot;Recovery is Real&quot;*

FWIW I’ve been having decent results, so far, with Miracle-Gro Performance Organics in-ground soil. I sifted it to get sticks and twigs out, then capped with #20 PFS. Everything has gone really well with it and it did not cause an ammonia spike, had to actually feed the tank ammonia in order to cycle. Growth seems steady, not crazy, and the only notable effect it had was it leeched a lot of tannins for about a month or so.


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## Streetwise (May 24, 2019)

If you are planting with with something like the Fluval forceps, remove the rubber tips. When planting, turn them about a half turn as you are releasing the plant, then slowly remove the forceps while still turning, so the cap fills back in.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

SingAlongWithTsing said:


> I might be pulling too plants out too hard/quickly because it turns to cloud city when I make major changes


There is an art to pulling plants from capped soil.
Depending how well certain species spread roots it can be slow @ times.




varanidguy said:


> Everything has gone really well with it and it did not cause an ammonia spike, had to actually feed the tank ammonia in order to cycle. Growth seems steady, not crazy, and the only notable effect it had was it leeched a lot of tannins for about a month or so.


Lots of tannin just means that enough of the wood/mulch was not removed.
Purigen is your friend when this happens!
Embrace the ammonia spikes, drop pH and plant heavy!

"Cycle" is something I discontinued @ least 5 years ago.
I use Poret foam as a corner filter and sterilize it every two months when I make a swap.
Very few Phish in my tank to make a difference anyway.




Streetwise said:


> If you are planting with with something like the Fluval forceps, remove the rubber tips. When planting, turn them about a half turn as you are releasing the plant, then slowly remove the forceps while still turning, so the cap fills back in.


I've heard of Fluval but for the love of God I have no idea what they make/sell???
I use some old Harbor Freight SS tweezers and a seamstress type thread cutting scissors for trimming.
All acquired before trimming utensils were available!


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Evening All:

It was a growing and watching night instead of a trim type evening! :grin2:
I even took pics but they look like crap and don't things justice. :frown2:
More mini-solo cups for the weekend.
I will get some better pics.

Almost have the neglected 33G emersed mess under control.
3 more species to trim and all is well!

Night All:


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Always nice to have a few "growing and watching" nights. Kinda makes it worth the effort. 
As always, look forward to pics


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

For heaven's sake leave the rest of us some solo cups to use as they were originally intended


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Quagulator said:


> For heaven's sake leave the rest of us some solo cups to use as they were originally intended


If you used the large Solo cups, like you should, this would not be an issue! >



Evening:
Getting reading to trim a few plants but I mentioned some pics.
About the best FTS I'm getting @ the moment.









Didiplis is looking much better, nicer top with orange seed pods all over.









Way too many reds but so be it.









Rotala magenta is no longer on strike.









Rotala bossii is new to me but almost all emersed growth is gone.









Reckon I should revive the dosing thread to include my new strategy.
The pics are weak but I'm not going to play with the phone too much.
The reds look terrible in the pics but great in the tank.

Plants:
E.diversifolia not doing much yet, it was a very poor specimen.
R.bossii may be a real keeper, wider spread than wallichii.
Lotus blossum we shall see how this does long term.
Red cross was another poor specimen but may pull through, new growth so far?
Furcata that was green/purple has already turned red on top.
S.belem was a nice specimen, I'll need to spread it out more.
Tulunadensis, hoping I can still revive this down to 6 stems.

Ammannia senegalensis is one stem in the BDBS only, it is not a happy stem.
Regardless it was only a test and I can get a handful of stems back from a local aquarist.

Should have never bought more plants but I didn't think the recovery would work out so well.

I've used no more algaecide since my last mention.
Never did the weekly dose I spoke of.
Haven't touched the glass since the last diatom filter usage weeks ago.
Haven't changed water since that time either other than a few quarts in my tray while trimming.

Eheim 350 skimmer I would recommend to anyone.
No more surface scum and a gentle flow across the front of tank.

One more 50% WC will get the 75G down to 20ppm NO3, it will happen this weekend.
33G trim down is working well but @ the bottom of the list.

Now off to filling little solo cups with soil! :grin2:

Night All:


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Haven't changed water since that time either other than a few quarts in my tray while trimming.


 Wanna get arrested for breaking the water change law?


----------



## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Edward said:


> Wanna get arrested for breaking the water change law?


My wife has requested that I do this too.... However, no clue how one would keep a balanced tank dosing like we do and not do WC's without algae outbreaks. LOL 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Edward said:


> Wanna get arrested for breaking the water change law?


They tried to apprehend me before but I've been evading the authorities for years!!! > 




chayos00 said:


> no clue how one would keep a balanced tank dosing like we do


My 11th day dose was this eve, dosed .14ppm of Fe & 10ppm NO3
Trying to dose based on consumption vs. lard it on and rinse/repeat.
I've been know to lard it on but only if the plant uptake is there too.

Joe mentioned that may have not worked well with the inert substrate.
This could be very true but with the extreme plant improvement with soil I'll stay with the soil.

Also have a very small phish load in terms of many others here, I only feed them every fourth day.


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## Edward (Apr 11, 2005)

> Wanna get arrested for breaking the water change law?
> 
> 
> chayos00 said:
> ...


 She wasn’t talking about the tank.


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## chayos00 (Sep 22, 2013)

Edward said:


> She wasn’t talking about the tank.


Actually she was since we were talking about our water bill. I was talking about how the rates keep going up and with our about average 10k gallon a month water use she was telling me to stop doing a weekly water change since with RO I actually use 2x's the amount changed. 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Evening All:

Paused this eve to take some pics!
Used a 5 in 1 cell phone kit for macro, 2x telephoto, wide angle, & fish eye.
Better than my normal pics but still needs improvement.

Macrandra bunch after trimming away the bottoms.









Rotala Bossii almost seems like white tops.









Furcata from a recent purchase.
Came from BucePlant with lots of flower buds I trimmed off.
Quick turn around with colorful tops in under a week.









Myriophyllum tuberculatum that was growing out of the 33G.
Saved a few stems for the 80G to test.
When out of the water it seems like all of this myrio looks like parrot feather.









E.diversifolia & mini aromatica are both making a come back.
Lost all diversifolia to the algae and about 60 stems of mini aromatica dissolved.









Happy Thanksgiving All !!! >>>
I have a four day weekend and some major tank work will happen.
Going to trim down the 33G and remove all plants to clean and vac the substrate.

75G will get one more 50% WC to put nitrates inline and normal dosing after that.
Well normal for me that is, all based on consumption.

Filled my 20lb CO2 tank @ work this eve.
Scared I wouldn't make it through the weekend without filling.
Once on the scale 20lbs fills quick, almost overfilled, can't imagine the noise of blowing the relief valve while in the car driving home!

Going to clean corner filter foam, reactors and plumbing this weekend on two tanks.
The Poret foam in the 80G is covered in BBA about 3/8" thick.
Guess it sucked up so much crap from the algae invasion that an extreme cleaning is in order.

Night All:


----------



## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Evening:

Thanksgiving turned out quite well and I'm not too overstuffed to do some trimming this eve.
Targeting the 33G since the growth is extreme.

Who can argue, James Bond 007 marathon playing in the back ground on EPIX!
Some Pennsylvania Dutch eggnog in a Solo cup and all is well! 

Maybe pics later.


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

So, the solo cups do have a purpose other than holding plants 
Four day weekend for me as well. After the honey do's are done I suspect the tanks will be next. Look forward to some more pics. Oh, curious, in your first pic of the previous post there seems to be some sort of foreign contaminant in your tank - kinda looks like a phish?


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Immortal1 said:


> So, the solo cups do have a purpose other than holding plants
> 
> Four day weekend for me as well. After the honey do's are done I suspect the tanks will be next.
> 
> ...


Only the"mini" cups go in the tanks! :grin2:

I've not completed all of the honey do's nor have I reached my target on the tanks. :|

Pics:
So my cell phone pics of the tanks are poor in my opinion.
Charged DSLR batteries today and tested out some lenses.
Shooting a tank without supplementary lighting is tough. 
End results are a little dark, I'll need to correct that this eve.
If edited to add a bit more light they look great.
I need to get this camera thing ironed out so that no editing is needed.
I have truly not spent the time required to make this happen, I shoot a few pics they are not so great and I post them anyway and move on to something else.
I'm not using a "Vintage" mode either!!! >

I have 3 species of foreign contaminants I've had for quite some time.
Still my same inventory, 2 flame tetras, 8 harlequin rasboras, 9 cory's
Here are some C123's.









Evening All:
I think I can safely say that the recovery is complete.
Everything growing in cups is growing well, only one species is not in the cups.
S.repens has not been placed in solo cups yet.
It has adapted to the inert substrate but with some BBA and slower growth.

Ferts:
Consumption has reached an all time low since everything is in soil cups.
Today's dose was 5ppm worth of macro mix and no micros, Fe was .20ppm when measured.
1 dGH dosed with GH booster and additional 3ppm of Ca from CaSO4.
I also upped the PO4 in the macro mix, I no longer touch the glass, always clean!


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

I miss the vintage pictures from @Immortal1 ...


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## SingAlongWithTsing (Jun 11, 2015)

How much PO4 are you dosing now?


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

LOL, first a stab in the back from Mg, then a good old twist from G48! All in good fun. 
Wow, 19 foreign contaminants - very nice! The cories look great!


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## TheUnseenHand (May 14, 2017)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Only the"mini" cups go in the tanks! :grin2:
> 
> I've not completed all of the honey do's nor have I reached my target on the tanks. :|
> 
> ...


How are you testing for Iron?


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

SingAlongWithTsing said:


> How much PO4 are you dosing now?


Trying to keep the water column at 2-3ppm





TheUnseenHand said:


> How are you testing for Iron?


Hanna checker HI721
This reads from zero to 5ppm
Only measurement device of this type that I own.
Fe was such a mystery, no way to measure accurately.


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## Ken Keating1 (Nov 22, 2017)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Hanna checker HI721
> This reads from zero to 5ppm


Will this fit into a Christmas stocking?:smile2:


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Ken Keating1 said:


> Will this fit into a Christmas stocking?:smile2:


Comes in a box 8"x6"x2.5" guessing?

Christmas present to yourself??? >>>


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## TheUnseenHand (May 14, 2017)

I'm quite familiar with the Hanna checkers from my saltwater days. How confident are you in the values it's providing? I'd certainly invest if the confidence was high enough.


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## Ken Keating1 (Nov 22, 2017)

TheUnseenHand said:


> I'm quite familiar with the Hanna checkers from my saltwater days. How confident are you in the values it's providing? I'd certainly invest if the confidence was high enough.


Per this review, they seem to be accurate.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

TheUnseenHand said:


> I'm quite familiar with the Hanna checkers from my saltwater days. How confident are you in the values it's providing? I'd certainly invest if the confidence was high enough.


When first purchased I tested in a bucket with 4 gallons.
Dosed as if to achieve .20ppm of Fe, run the same vial through three times and take the average.
Turned out @ .19ppm of Fe, I can live with this.

Few months ago it started going crazy, not readily taking a reading.
Ordered new cuvettes and issues went away.
Old ones just got nasty and stained over 18 months.
Even though I wash and clean them clarity goes to hell.

Lets face it we use Fe as our indicator with micros.
Knowing the Fe we know the rest of what we are adding and it's the only micro element we can test for without taking out a loan!


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## TheUnseenHand (May 14, 2017)

Ken Keating1 said:


> Per this review, they seem to be accurate.


Appreciate the info, thanks!


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Warning Hanna Checkers come with only 3-6 reagent packets.
Make sure to order a box of 25 or you'll be waiting for the mail again.
Somewhere in small print it states # of reagent packets with purchase.
Like $7 and change for 25 in a little box.

Sodium metabisulfide, you'll only smell it when first dumping the cuvettes to clean, not horrible but there none the less.


----------



## TheUnseenHand (May 14, 2017)

Thanks again. I ordered an Iron checker along with a couple other testers. I'll say, some of those benchtop spectrophotometers were tempting. If the reagents weren't so expensive, I may have pulled the trigger on the 550$ one:

https://www.hannainst.com/aquaculture-photometer-hi83303.html


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Good Evening All:

Tanks are doing well, algae is gone for now and plants are in quick grow mode.
Sent some plants to a fellow employee @ work, his woman has a 55G at their home.
Even mixed up a low dose schedule for him and plants are claimed to be doing well.
I'm always happy to help out a fellow hobbyist!

I have new plants, several red species and everything is growing pristine in the capped soil cups.
Some upcoming holiday downtime will allow me to go back to capped soil.
Hope I make it until the downtime, several capped soil cups were sold this week, with the entire cup included.
If I pulled the plants everything in the cups came with it, root structure got crazy.

Night All:


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Evening All:

It was getting a little thick near the middle of the tank.
Had to do some trimming yesterday eve.
@Immortal1 more foreign objects in the pic, of course no new ones.









New Plants:
Of course these were over the past month of no algae.

Lotus blossum: 6 stems, one didn't make it, what can one do!

Ludwigia inclinata red: 9 stems new to me and growing well, LFS has horrible looking bunches of this, salvage mission in my favor.
May go back and try to salvage more @ reduced price!
This stuff really looked bad @ LFS.

Macrandra mini, type unknown: Hit the ground growing well, about 15 stems.

Rotala Bossii: trimmed 3 times already, white tops, reminds me of ludwigia white for color.

Pot of Syns: 9 stems of pristine condition, growing well and hope It propagates well.

Ludwigia sp. red: Bunch was about 17 stems, distributed in two tanks.
All of my old was lost in the algae bomb.

Furcata: 10 stems really growing well but not rooting well in capped soil cups.

AR variegated: About 13 stems, looks great but time will tell.
I've grown regular AR mini like a jungle in the past and sold it off.
The red colors it produced almost seemed artificial, hope this looks better.

Wallichii: It is growing but not as I like it, moved to a better lit area of the tank yesterday.
Time will tell!

About $55 in plants over the past month with all these mentioned.

No trimming this eve for me.
JAWS 1975 is on Cinemax this eve, I saw this movie on opening week way back when.
My harlequin rasbora's don't meet up to the JAWS criteria but oh well!
Maybe the Cory's will fill in for carnivores! :grin2::grin2::grin2:


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

Wow the recovery is real! That looks great!

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

varanidguy said:


> Wow the recovery is real! That looks great!


I knew the capped soil cups would bring everything back.
Could not hold out any longer, too many plants would have been lost.

Evening All:
Maybe I am stuck with soil for now???
WTH I like the results but not the uprooting care that is involved.
Anyone could try some mini solo cups with capped soil???
Aesthetically pleasing to the eye, absolutely not but the grow is good! 

Ambulia went mad, noticed during the last trim, two extra cups growing now!
S.Bihar survived the transition but will go back to a soil cup soon.
Bihar will survive the inert transition with minimal damage.
I could write a novel @ this point!

Night All:


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Evening All:
Busy day, just got home.
Enough time to sit in front of one tank and check the others.

Grandson we had to take to feed store this morning, animal viewing and pony rides.
Then off to a Christmas party @ horse riding club.
It was a full day but not a tiring one. Pleasant with good food & drink!
Not sure why we went to feed store since he is led around on horses here and we have pigs and goats!
Go figure??? :|:|:| 

Tank and plants are really looking clean now.
I'm going to have to list up another sale in the near future.
I can move plants and feel good about it!

Syn Belem with about 12 very crowded tops.










Macrandra & Lotus Blossum









Still playing with cameras and not happy yet.

So I have been thinking about soil.
I grow a lot, typically sell a lot and really don't have a scaped or Dutch tank.
Since I am still just farming/growing I may move to larger pots for plants and of course the little cups for smaller groups.

Feel free to share thoughts on this???

Night All:


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## Desert Pupfish (May 6, 2019)

Looks like you've hit on a recipe for success there. What kind of soil & cap do you use, and what ratio? And how many oz are the Solo mini cups you use? Do you find that potted plants like this transplant better than regular bare root plants, or is there that much of a difference? Kinda reminds me of the pony packs they sell at the garden centers. 

I've got a 75 g tank from the last DPG sale I'm looking to set up sometime after the first of the year, and am wondering if this could be a good way to get some of my better growing plants ready to "plug & play" when I do get around to setting it up.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Desert Pupfish said:


> What kind of soil & cap do you use, and what ratio?
> And how many oz are the Solo mini cups you use?
> Do you find that potted plants like this transplant better than regular bare root plants, or is there that much of a difference?


Miracle-Gro All Purpose none of this organic false claim stuff.
Sifted, screened and rinsed to remove all floating material then dried just enough to retain form (no longer just runny mud).
Been thinking of going back to just topsoil.
Each 2oz. cup gets about 3/4-1" of soil and the rest is BDBS.

Not sure I fully understand your last question?
These cups become packed with roots, pulling the stems out results in usually pulling soil and BDBS minus the cup and holds its form.
Transplant, I keep the best tops and side shoots and place them in a new cup when needed.
Plant crypts in these cups and the roots over run the cup and also forces propagation within the cup.

My transition from capped soil to inert BDBS went very poorly, algae farm, plant death etc....
Soil capped cups were used as the salvage mission to save all plants that did not appreciate the inert substrate change.


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## Desert Pupfish (May 6, 2019)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Miracle-Gro All Purpose none of this organic false claim stuff.
> Sifted, screened and rinsed to remove all floating material then dried just enough to retain form (no longer just runny mud).
> Been thinking of going back to just topsoil.
> Each 2oz. cup gets about 3/4-1" of soil and the rest is BDBS.
> ...


Thanks! Sorry if I wasn't clear. So when you go to transplant plants from the cups into the substrate, do your potted plants from your mini cups do better than ones that were just bare root and pulled up from elsewhere in the tank? (or from someone else's tank?) . With terrestial plants at least, some like being somewhat rootbound and do well when grown that way and transplanted into the ground from pony packs, and others don't. Hope this makes sense. 

Nice to know that your method forces crypts to propagate. I should try this with my C. balansae, which after 6 months have slowly grown a little taller, but otherwise still aren't doing much....


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Evening All:

Everyone like pictures! >

Macranadra mini from a week ago, don't know the type but seems well.









Ludwigia inclinata is starting to rise above other plants.
Grabbed another 9 stem bunch of this today.









Ludwigia White, LFS had emersed plugs of this today.
Shall see how this goes.









Eriocaulon Vietnam survived the algae bomb.
It is now growing out of the mini solo cups.









Rotala Macrandra doing well and survived the inert substrate change.









Lamb Chops Anyone! For @Immortal1












Desert Pupfish said:


> So when you go to transplant plants from the cups into the substrate, do your potted plants from your mini cups do better than ones that were just bare root and pulled up from elsewhere in the tank?
> 
> I should try this with my C. balansae, which after 6 months have slowly grown a little taller, but otherwise still aren't doing much....


Else where in the tank is non-existent, everything moving to capped soil cups until capped soil is re-established.

Sold off balansae about two years ago, sorry I did this since it was a real grower for me.


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Ahhh, foreign contaminant! LOL Plants are looking great! May have to try that Rotala Macrandra some day - good looking plant


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Macranadra mini from a week ago, don't know the type but seems well.


NEED IT, who ships to Canada? Our cash may look like monopoly money but I promise it's real....


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

*Journal of My 80 Gallon Frag Tank &quot;Growing Again&quot;*



Maryland Guppy said:


> Ludwigia White, LFS had emersed plugs of this today.
> 
> Shall see how this goes.



I think I bought the same plant yesterday... at my LFS it was labeled Ludwigia inclinata Cuba white edge. Definitely in an emmersed form with very few submerged shoots.


That rotala mini looks a lot like Rotala indica, though it’s a lot more red than I’m used to seeing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

vvDO said:


> I think I bought the same plant yesterday... at my LFS it was labeled Ludwigia inclinata Cuba white edge. Definitely in an emmersed form with very few submerged shoots.
> 
> That rotala mini looks a lot like Rotala indica, though it’s a lot more red than I’m used to seeing.


I have a pot of true indica near by and this a resemblance for sure.
Maybe a pic side by side is coming to compare.


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Maryland Guppy said:


> I have a pot of true indica near by and this a resemblance for sure.
> 
> Maybe a pic side by side is coming to compare.




Definitely not indica, just looks like a red version of it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

vvDO said:


> Definitely not indica, just looks like a red version of it.


I noticed the same thing when I was planting.
One green, one red and yes they are similar.

Worth a pic in the future though.
Any excuse to play with the camera again! >


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Evening All:

Tuesday a rough day @ the dentist, but felt the flu coming on.
Wednesday & Today I've been a total mess and have not left the couch.
Should be trimming this eve but don't have it in me.

Did grab a few pics.

Ammannia bonsai









Macrandra mini







They look a lot similar!

Of course being phishless! A lamb chop pic!
E.diversifolia can be seen in this pic, those sad 5 stems that came home with me have taken weeks to make a turn around.









Night All:
I still may trim a few species before I crash.


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Evening All:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Now they’re looking even more similar than I had previously thought... new variety?

Hope you’re feeling better soon.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mackenziefcs (Dec 1, 2019)

awesome progress!


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Evening All:

A Jaws marathon is on Cinemax this eve.
Reminds me of a red tail shark in my 75G terrorizing the platy's! >
Showing my age since I attended the first night viewing of this film as a teenager.

I've been trimming a lot over two evenings.
Seems like the soil in the 33G is about done too.
Mini solo cups are going everywhere!

Night All:


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Daah dump.......
Daah dump.......
............
Daah dump.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

So I'm kind of waiting for something to come to the surface. :grin2:


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Maryland Guppy said:


> So I'm kind of waiting for something to come to the surface. :grin2:


The only thing that came to the surface was the persicaria india?
This only meant that I was going to have to trim this eve?

Evening All:

An S.repens group was pulled this eve and planted in little cups.
Yielded about 15 plants, 5 per cup and the rest got trashed.
It transitioned to the inert sub but is certainly not the same growth.
Plot #2 of this will be replanted in cups tomorrow eve.

Macrandra reached the surface too, it got clipped.

Furcata will be in tomorrow's trim too, it's gotten loud at this point.

Lost all of my ludwigia sp. red in the algae bomb.
The new group finally took off in the soil cups but not quite ready for a trim.

Erio vietnam that moved to soil cups really needs a trim.
Each cup (3) was planted with 2 plants.
Now they have self divided into @ least 6 per cup.
Running out of room for more cups almost.

Much thought has went into my growing scheme lately.
Maybe I will just continue with the cups and maintain a bare bottom tank?
The soil in the 33G is about spent too, so maybe cups only in both tanks?


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Alrighty then, I'm not trimming this eve!

Came home to the women watching some masked singing show, bogus poor music etc...
I ask who has been unmasked so far, daughter replies, "Seal with a Scar".
My first thought, this little bugger has escaped a great white shark attack!

So I have some vacation time during the Holidays coming up.
A nine day off stretch for me and I'm losing one vacation day this year since I really have no where left to take it! :frown2::frown2::frown2:
Once this starts on Tuesday I am really thinking of removing all substrate from all 3 tanks and putting everything in mini-solo cups for now.

Thinking of ordering 2 more Eheim 350 surface skimmers for my other tanks.
These things are awesome to claim surface debris, scum, floating leaves etc...
And of course another trip to the dollar store for the mini-solo cups!

Night All:


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Evening All:

I have finally got a positive ID on a plant I've been sending out to many as an extra.
Lindernia tamilnadensis sp. india can't remember where it even came from.
I don't remember whom I've sent this to but I always labeled as mystery bacopa! :surprise:

Busy day here, Christmas/Birthday/Horse club member gathering dinner all in one!

Tomorrow will be a trim evening with pics!

Night All:


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

This plant?


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

burr740 said:


> This plant?


Yep, that looks like it!
I even think @ higher PAR the plant changes form.


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## Streetwise (May 24, 2019)

When I see those tube light reflections, it makes me want to go watch Tron or listen to some old-school synth pop.


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Yep, that looks like it!
> I even think @ higher PAR the plant changes form.


I got it from Vin about a year ago, maybe a little longer. It is possible I threw a couple in with whatever our last trade was. It would've been around that time.

I didnt know it was 'sp India' thought it was just tamilnadensis. Did Cavan ID it for you?


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

burr740 said:


> I got it from Vin about a year ago, maybe a little longer. It is possible I threw a couple in with whatever our last trade was. It would've been around that time.
> 
> I didnt know it was 'sp India' thought it was just tamilnadensis. Did Cavan ID it for you?



I got it from someone in the midwest as an extra, 2years +
Found the name on a bag it was shipped with.
Finally good pics of this plant are out on the web to confirm.

Actually though I may have sent it to you?

Don't know if Cavan has it or not?
Maybe I'll text him a pic of it too.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Good Afternoon All:

Had to go shopping today.
A few last minute Christmas add on items and of course the essentials fuel, tobacco, whiskey, phish, and plants!

So LPS had a new shipment of very active panda corys.
So many people spell phish wrong! >
I purchased two more in hopes of getting a glimpse of them more often.
If not I will get more, tired of not seeing them often.
My C123's are always out and about.

Came home with hattonia palustris, a serious rescue mission with this.
Three sad little stems are now in a pot.
The other was lagarosiphon madagascariensis which looked beautiful but was handled very poorly before purchase.
It is a fragile one and any bending will rot the stems off.

My tanks are a mess with much growth nearing the surface.









Ludwigia sp red was another rescue mission a few weeks ago.
Previous purchase from Joe was taken out during the algae bomb.
It has finally taken off quite well.









All my plants are looking really clean and for the most part are quite well.
Wallichii had made a turn around from the salvage mission too.
E.diversifolia is almost @ the top too, despite the purple bottoms I started with.









Busy evening regarding therapy(trimming)
Maybe test water and dose micros this eve too!

More pics over the coming holidays!


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## celticfrog42 (Oct 22, 2019)

Maryland Guppy said:


> So LPS had a new shipment of very active panda corys.


Will you share your LPS with me? I am in NOVA and my LPS fish selection jas not been great. I intended to go with pandas, but the only healthy looking corys at the time were peppered.

Love your tank!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

celticfrog42 said:


> Will you share your LPS with me? I am in NOVA and my LPS fish selection jas not been great.
> I intended to go with pandas, but the only healthy looking corys at the time were peppered.
> 
> Love your tank!


House of Tropicals in Glen Burnie, Maryland = LPS
They had about 70 pandas in a tank and all had good behavior and no dead phish.
They have about 20 tanks with plants for sale too.
No one on their staff is a "grower" that I know of.

I am glad someone loves my tank.
Still growing and experimenting, aesthetics are not with all these damn mini solo cups!
My C123's came from a local breeder during an auction couple years ago.
I like the look of larger corys but prefer smaller phish, keeping the phish load small.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Good Evening All:

Hope that everyone enjoyed their Christmas Day!

My daughter gave me a book about plants for Christmas!
Encyclopedia of Aquarium Plants by Peter Hiscock, one that I don't have.
Several years ago while on a download site there was a group of 90 aquarium books that I downloaded, strangely enough this book was not included.
The book is of the 2003 era and my have things changed since then, very noticeable in the lighting area especially.

Tomorrow will include a late Christmas present, I will have another grandchild.
DIL is going in @ 7:30am for induced labor!!!

Hope everyone got something aquarium related for Christmas, I fully understand that many spouses would rather ignore the aquarium.

Well tonight is the removal of all plants in the 33G.
Big trim, clean, vac etc... just to put it all back in.
The soil has lost it's everything so maybe all mini solo cups?

More to Follow:


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Suppose at this time in the morning here I can say CONGRATULATIONS on the new arrival!


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Immortal1 said:


> Suppose at this time in the morning here I can say CONGRATULATIONS on the new arrival!


Thanks Linn.
My guestimation would be a 1:30pm arrival time.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Tomorrow will include a late Christmas present, I will have another grandchild.
> DIL is going in @ 7:30am for induced labor!!!


Congratulations MG!

What an exciting and wonderful time.

Have a great day and enjoy meeting the new addition to the family.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Evening All:
> 
> I have finally got a positive ID on a plant I've been sending out to many as an extra.
> Lindernia tamilnadensis sp. india can't remember where it even came from.
> ...


https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/9157/26fe726d3ffaba9e0c284b82c572bdb0804c.pdf



> Diagnosis:—Lindernia tamilnadensis is related to L. rotundifolia, but differs mainly in comparatively smaller floral parts, in the absence of trichomes at the base of the anterior corolla lobes, the presence of staminodal appendages, undeflexed fruiting pedicels and globose capsules.


Have fun..


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Immortal1 said:


> Suppose at this time in the morning here I can say CONGRATULATIONS on the new arrival!





Greggz said:


> Congratulations MG!
> What an exciting and wonderful time.
> Have a great day and enjoy meeting the new addition to the family.


Bun has still not came out of the oven! :|
Been told it will be soon? :surprise:

On the aquarium side of things I didn't get the 33G empty last eve.
Too many things to trim and even more this eve.


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Maryland Guppy said:


> *Bun has still not came out of the oven*! :|
> Been told it will be soon? :surprise:
> 
> On the aquarium side of things I didn't get the 33G empty last eve.
> Too many things to trim and even more this eve.



Have you tried 375 degrees? :grin2:
Trimming seems to be a never ending process - will likely spend a few hours holding a pair of scissors this weekend as well.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Immortal1 said:


> Have you tried 375 degrees? :grin2:
> Trimming seems to be a never ending process - will likely spend a few hours holding a pair of scissors this weekend as well.


Seems like right around 6:45 the red button popped up on the turkey! >
So I now have another granddaughter! :grin2:
I'll let them settle down and go for a visit in the am unless they go home early tomorrow then I'll visit them @ home.

The tank side of things is I'm going to trim something this eve.
I am still procrastinating @ the moment and the rush to get started has subsided.
Syns and lotus blossom have extra plants growing @ nodes.
Polycarpa is maroon red near the surface.
I should split erio vietnam cups but don't really have the room quite yet.
Erio compressum has made a come back but not ready to touch.
Ludwigia sp.red salvage mission looks beautiful now, LFS almost killed it.
Tuberculatum @ 75PAR is flat out orange and looks rather neat, 60PAR in the other tank it is mostly green.
Furcata is well rooted in the soil cups and due to shading is not as red as should be.

Sadly these descriptions don't include the 33G I am trying to trim!

Soil capped cups with a month underwater are really tight, dump them over and nothing falls out.
A very different planting technique that requires a different approach but all is well.

Enough rambling:


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Congratulations on the new arrival - hopefully mom and baby are both doing well. 
Look forward to some pics... and also pics of the tanks, LOL. Sounds like you will have a busy weekend.


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## celticfrog42 (Oct 22, 2019)

Congratulations on the new Grandbaby!


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Thank you for the congrats everyone!

I cooked a Cuban meatball dish for everyone today, wife not sure how to handle this.
Seen this dish on a food channel early December, now I've got to share the recipe site with everyone.
Had to make it and everyone loved it.

Tank updates:
I didn't trim yesterday, crashed early and said WTH.
This eve is where I trim everything @ the surface out of necessity, not how I like it!
This equates to about 20 pots/plugs of ape shiitake growth.
Not to mention other tank related things that ain't gonna happen this eve.

Sadly plants will go to the trash this eve. :frown2:
Sales posts have yielded very little action and I'm not going to list them in a dozen different places.
I despise tossing plants that I've spent the time growing, oh well.
There is no room for a salvage of the trimmings.
My 75G has space but lighting and CO2 will not support some of these species.

Will grab some pics this eve too!


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

"Cuban meatball dish" - sounds yum!
"Sadly plants will go to the trash this eve." :crying::crying:


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## Streetwise (May 24, 2019)

How about a bucket?


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Streetwise said:


> How about a bucket?


A bucket can be a good thing but!!!
I try to post a sale just before a trim.
Send out good straight growth this way not something curled around in a bucket.
Many times weighted plants are just waiting in my large tank for a sale.
I could toss a few hundred stems and never notice, the trash just pains me though!

A little break and back to trimming/therapy!!! >>>


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

Congratulations all around, to the new grandkid and great plant recovery! Everything is beautiful.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Evening All:

What a day it was!
Had to clean and snake a pipe to the grease trap today, clogged from the house out.
Wearing a wife beater in the pouring rain @ 60°, soaked 4 times.
Warm times for a December Maryland day it was!

Then the wifey decides to use the self clean option on the stove.
Says it works really good and proceeds, mentioning the bit of turkey juice that hit the bottom.
Good thing when in clean mode it locks the oven door!
If not the first blast of fire would have broke the door off the hinge.
I let it burn out in about 30 seconds, never left my chair.
2nd blast was about 3 minutes later with lots of smoke.
Warm day, windows open, paddle fans running, all is good!
Good thing it wasn't a 50lb turkey, more juice for sure.

So on to planted things!
Ambulia pulled from the tank.









Pots are fully loaded with roots so much that even the BDBS holds the form of the pot!









Tuberculatum has been a nice orange color @ 75 PAR area.
These are almost 3" in diameter.









Lotus blossom is finally loving my water.
These are almost 2" from the surface.









Furcata has exploded and was trimmed last night.
Shipping 8 stems this eve and I'm only keeping 6.
See that, I have developed some self control!
The ones on the right side of tank are very red in the 115 PAR range.
These are under the 60 PAR puck and not so vibrant.
One lonely stem and side shoot of colorata was left after the algae bomb!
No worries 12 more bright green stems in another tank waiting to come back.









Ludwigia sp. red is starting to show some dominance.









Been trimming the 33G this week too.
It's been a battle for what hits the surface next!

Ironically while trimming and typing yesterday eve I got another plant order.
They will get more than they bargained for since I am trimming.
It is tough to toss some of the plants I've been growing knowing full well that someone could use or experiment with them.

Making about 50 gallons of RODI water this eve in between trimming.
Will be a late night since I started not long ago.

Night All:


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Good Evening All:

Tonight will be one of those woeful posts about an issue!
Surface scum in all of my tanks is off the hook.
The 80G has the Eheim 350 skimmer, a jewel of a device.
I need to order 2 more for the other tanks.
The surface of the other two tanks has it growing in sheets.

I almost think this is an insect related event.
Little brown pods are on the surface, mind you they are small too.
I find spiders and little gnats on the water surface all of the time.
Would decaying insect matter on the surface cause this?

Do any others here use this small surface skimmer?
It seems to catch all failed leaves, a thousand snails, all the scum ever created, and keeps the PAR levels up.
If I purchase two more this post tonight will be null & void
Just asking???


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

FWIW, my 75g has a DIY skimmer and the surface is always clear of surface film. The 40g next to it usually gets a surface film about 3-4 days after a water change. The air stone in the 40g is not enough to fix the surface film problem. Both tanks are open top and get basically the same amounts of macros and micros.
Only thing I can think of is the surface skimmer works...

Sorry to hear you are again having issues.


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## Hendy8888 (Mar 6, 2008)

Really enjoyed following your rebound from the algae and your methods in general. I like to have some form of skimming on every tank, never used the internal ones but the filter intake kind are great.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Immortal1 said:


> Sorry to hear you are again having issues.


Not really again, this has been going on for years.
Not really an issue like the algae, this is quickly controlled by skimming.
Just going to need to automate with a skimmer in the other two tanks!


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

The surface of my planted tank has not ever really been an issue for me. Between the two spray bars covering 80% of the length on the back of the tank, flowing back to front and pointed up for surface agitation, plus two SunSun skimmers it stays quite clear.

My 40 blackwater has been another story. I have a skimmer, decent agitation, but still experience a thin layer of a film. I just added a short spray bar from a single outlet, and this has helped a bit, but I run the spray bar on this tank from left side to right, not front to back. That, coupled with what I assume is the mopani wood and almond leaves 'decaying' may keep a slight film on the surface. Still trying to solve this one myself.

What are you doing for the filter outputs? I really do love those SunSun spray bars and skimmers.

I have experience some small 'bugs' when I had a 29 gallon planted with no surface skimmer, but on my 55 and not 75 I have seen nothing.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Grobbins48 said:


> What are you doing for the filter outputs?


All tanks have a spray bar in the back rippling the water toward the front.
No driftwood, all removed for more plant space! >


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Evening All:
Trim/therapy this eve and filling another Brute can.
No little boxes to go to USPS tomorrow!
I've trimmed and moved a lot but I really can't tell.
Been sending way more and extras just to relieve the plant load.

Seen erio vietnam mentioned, going to pull my pots of this tonight and see what it really amounts to.
Kind of tucked away behind some crypts with a little shade involved.
Some pics will be in order for sure.

Till some time later this eve:


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Trimming a lot tonight.
Finally got to the potted erio.

This was the erio during the algae bomb and the brown crypts in front.









Same corner today before trimming.









Removed from the pots and very root bound @ this time.









Then the yield, lost one with no roots left.
Could have been more aggressive splitting but already lost one. 









Now I have 5 pots growing, talk about no room!
Once they stiffen up in the pots I'll have to sell some.









Back to trimming, I needed break.


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Your 2 pots remind me of the 3 clumps I pulled from my tank. Now I have 6-7 smaller sections like your middle one on the right. The rest found a different home. Amazing how much you can divide this plant once they get big. Amazing improvement in your post algae pic!


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## Streetwise (May 24, 2019)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Trimming a lot tonight.
> Finally got to the potted erio.
> 
> This was the erio during the algae bomb and the brown crypts in front.


Since I know you are keeping things alive, I can just comment for fun. I look at that picture and think of how many shrimp and grazers could feed on those snacks.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Streetwise said:


> Since I know you are keeping things alive, I can just comment for fun. I look at that picture and think of how many shrimp and grazers could feed on those snacks.


After I vacuumed in the evening during this algae out break the rear of the tank would be clean, all substrate visible.
When I got home from work everyday there was an inch of it waiting for me again.
That would require a massive amount of critters to consume that much. :grin2:
Not to mention the toxic cocktail used to kill the algae would have killed the shrimp, some snails did survive.


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## Streetwise (May 24, 2019)

Got it.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Evening All:

Been selling lately, not extreme like 8 boxes to post office @ a time but every couple days 1 or 2
This is great keeps my hands in the tank and trimming other things while pulling an order!
Not the big rush where I get orders and real names vs. usernames all mixed up! :|

I bit the bullet and ordered two more eheim skimmers finally.
Need to order more heat packs and grab ziplocks @ grocery store.
Running out of insulation/bubble wrap I use for cold weather shipping.
Luckily work provides this with electronic equipment that we purchase.

My trimming technique has changed a bit.
Used to only keep tops with or without side shoots and toss bottoms.
After the algae outbreak I wanted some things back in number.
Persicaria india for example, just cut tops off and add them to the bottoms in the same pot.
It doesn't tank long to have a pot full in a hurry.

Cabomba furcata has been strange lately.
My full strength photo period is 6.5 hours.
@ 5.5 hours it seems to get tired of the light and begins to close up.

Rotala bossii got really mad when I trimmed it last.
It has taken a long time to recover and produce very white tops.

Lotus blossom have almost reached the surface with 3 new side shoots.
This is a light hog like no other, when getting near the surface it really takes off under higher PAR.

Wallichii got it's first trim after LFS purchase over 1 month ago.
The bottoms were garbage filled with the same algae that plagued my tank.
All cleaned up I am @ about 25 stems that look great, a lot hit the trash that no one would want.

P. erectus that survived the algae plague looks great but has not grown tall as in the past yet.
It was quite disturbed and it really was a salvage mission that turned out well.

S.repens @Greggz 's bane, I now have 5 pots of this stuff.
Since it was recently trimmed, once the pots get full I am going to sell it all.
Just not very thrilled with it any more.
This is also part of my New Years resolution, get rid of plants!
I grow too many things and regrettably just cannot keep everything.
Picking one's favorites can be difficult though, gee this grows well, save some, put it in the 33G, save a bit in the 75G under lower light.
It has to stop, this behavior cannot continue for me!

The mini solo cups seem to be constantly falling over on their own,
Not really, roots grow out of the cups into the inert BDBS and pull over the pots!

Sadly my barclaya has not fully recovered yet, it has 3 new leaves from the bulb.
The algae bomb melted 8" leaves from this once was monster.
Still keeping my fingers crossed!

Phish are doing very well.
Lamb chops are still doing the spawning behavior, Cory's are very happy!
Flame tetras are a phish I wish to never purchase again, 2 wild caught have survived for a long time!
Flames are the piggies of the tank, will eat till they are reading to pop!
I feel like they take away from the Cory's bottom feeding habits.

Enough Rambling:

Another box yet to fill!!! >


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Good Evening All:

Still trimming away and that same 2-3 packages a week to ship.
Sadly it does not seem to be making a dent in the new growth.

The plus side is the little solo cups.
Pull a cup, trim off the required stems and plop it back in the tank to grow more.
Cups are so root bound that no BDBS falls out.
On occasion the cup must be emptied and filled with new soil.

My dosing has went to hell lately.
The predictive macro dosing went bad.
The "hot" cups have so much ammonium nitrate and poultry litter that NO3 has reached 40ppm in the tank.
Now macro dosing is only PO4 & K
Plants are clean and algae free though.
Still a low KH and not too worry!!!
I may need to actually do a planned WC this week!

Every time I open the "soil" drain flies escape.
Reckon it is a good sign for the most part.

Later!!!


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Evening All:

Trimmed a plenty lately, tonight I am off duty.
Daughter says the trash can in the shop smells like weed.
Yes, but it is aquatic weeds, a lot of remnants have went to the trash.

Those Eheim skimmers are really doing their job, one in every tank now.
Bring on the surface scum I'm not even looking for a cure anymore.
Not only the surface scum/protein/whatever it has removed all duckweed from the 75G and seems to catch leaves and snails at an unparalleled pace.
Should have purchased these a long time ago.

Still need to remove a lot of plant mass.
Maybe over the next month, I've pretty much decided what to sell off.
Too many myrio species look alike these days.

Later:


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Evening All:
> Trimmed a plenty lately, tonight I am off duty.
> Later:



Are we ever really off duty? Mind is always thinking about plants :grin2:


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

You got the Skim 350s right? How often do they need cleaning?


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## Streetwise (May 24, 2019)

I have two of them, and I have run them in all of my tanks at various times. The foam is very tiny, about 0.75" x 0.50" x 0.25" and clogs very quickly. You can adjust the flow with quite a large range. The skimmer is very sensitive to water height. If the foam is clogged, it will either do nothing, or spew bubbles underwater, depending on the flow setting. I posted a review video which I will try to share again.

I have also tried skimming with my Tunze 3161 units. They are also very sensitive to water level and flow output, but much more powerful, and with more filter foam choices.

I had good success with the Skim 350 for sucking in Duckweed, with regular cleaning.

They both worked for surface film, but only briefly before clogging, or changing to lower water column filtering for the 3161 units. I found more success by using the output or spray-bar of my MP10s along the surface.

https://vimeo.com/357416877

https://vimeo.com/359648619


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

burr740 said:


> You got the Skim 350s right? How often do they need cleaning?


About once per week unless I trim a lot.
Just pop the top off rinse in the sink and snap back on.
Foam could be changed to a coarser piece if needed.
Run on the lower flow setting or all the plants get bent over.
Helps with flow all around too.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Good Evening Again! >

The Nun is on this eve! :surprise:
Reminds me of serving nine years in a Catholic school in the 60s-70s. :|
And what a close resemblance, we had a nickname for them all! >









Another watch everything grow kind of eve.
I get home a bit after 8 every day and am working on some bathroom projects that take up morning and late evening right now.

Well I lost a few paragraphs while previewing this post.

Done Now:


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Evening:

I mentioned 7 days ago NO3 was @ 40ppm.
Dropped to 20ppm today, just under 3ppm per day consumption.
Strange for this uptake to stall for like the 2 weeks prior?
Tomorrow macro dosing will only be PO4 & K and see how this rides out.

Evaporation has been crazy in all the tanks this winter.
Doesn't make sense though, it's been a warm winter, haven't even used a 1/4 tank of oil this year.

Will get some jungle pics tomorrow I reckon!

Night All:


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Evening All:

No picks yet, things getting in the way.
Dosing has been very light, about an every 8-10 day thing.
On average .10ppm of Fe and 5-10ppm of NO3 every ten days or so.
Extra PO4 dosing to target 2ppm or just a bit more.
The next 1000ml macro mix will have more PO4 included.

New micro mix has been CSM+B "Canada" mix for a while now.
It's been the best mix yet without measuring out individual compounds.

Been selling off plants @ a moderate level of late.
One sale this week and an aquatic plant club meeting this weekend.
Many items to auction on this one I hope!
Trying to knock the planted density way down, I'm overgrown by far!

Night All:


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Evening:
> 
> I mentioned 7 days ago NO3 was @ 40ppm.
> Dropped to 20ppm today, just under 3ppm per day consumption.
> ...


Interesting you mention this. Tested my tank water last Sunday and it also read pretty high on NO3 (40+). Dosed only PO4 and K for the week to see what would happen. Yesterday it appeared the tank was closer to 20ppm NO3 (sound familiar?) Waiting for new Salifert NO3 test kit to arrive (API kit not very accurate).
The interesting thing of note for me is your comment of about 3ppm NO3 consumption per day. Wish I had the time / equipment to figure out if my big fish generate more NO3 than the plants consume - or is it the other way around?
Still look forward to some "jungle" pics.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Phish waste calculation method.
Don't recall where from but it may get one in the ballpark.
View attachment Fish NH3 waste.txt


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Phish waste calculation method.
> Don't recall where from but it may get one in the ballpark.
> View attachment 892205



Interesting. Assuming I did all the math correctly, this is what I ended up with


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Evening:

Jungle pic 001









Other pics just looked like hell and not worth posting.
One week the cell phone works best and the next week the DSLR is better!

Been trimming with lots to trash lately.
Shipped one order Saturday morn with many extras.
Really trying to thin things out some.

Maybe some RAOK's are in the future.
Big thin out for the cheap!

Early this coming week I'm going to try for better pics.

Night all:


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## EdWiser (Jul 14, 2015)

Trim trim trim. [emoji3] great work. [emoji106]


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

I should be trimming this eve:

Don't have it in me though.
A few more pics!

Some S.bihar going to a local friend this week (3 stems)
This is a monster plant IMHO, tough to keep short.
Ironically kept near some S.repens of 6 pots.









Furcata has been a quick grower lately.









The Eheim skimmers have been awesome in all the tanks now.
Sadly I lost a panda cory yesterday that found the impeller too interesting.

Yes, @Immortal1 there are some foreign objects swimming about, phish they are called! :grin2:

Some algae has returned on the right side of my tank.
Around the P.erectus, variegated AR, and R.wallichii.
It is too dense thus collected debris ends up there.
If this area were thinned out the issue would be gone.
This right back corner collects all of the debris from the tank.
I use a 1/4" tubing siphon weekly to clean here.
Missed a planted tank club meeting this past weekend. :frown2:
Due to a poker game that lasted until 4:30am Friday eve/Sat morn.
A post time of 1:00pm Sat was not going to work after that.
Sorry there were no horses involved in the event!

Got to go, Lee Van Cleef just got wasted in The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly!
Night All:


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Evening All:

No trimming for a few days, just been watching for a change.
I have fallen right back into the density problem again.
Been giving away locally, almost doubling orders for people if I can, and still too dense.
I need to really evaluate what my favorite plants are and sell off the rest.
It's tough when you have a lot of favorites though!!!
If I had a room full of tanks I realize they would just all be maxed out with plants.
Many species I could say that all of the in's and out's have been learned.
But yet to part with, completely sell off is hard, keep a little bit to savor in another tank.
A true story of collectoritis!!!
Heck, I find forgotten plants in the tank sometimes, this is sad.

Enough of my moaning and groaning!

Till another Eve! >


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Evening All:

So I have trimmed a bit for 5 evenings now.
I cannot tell!
Trying to get a list for a sale thread but get tired out near the end of eve!

Eheim surface skimmers working well.
The original foam has now been replaced with Poret foam scraps.
It will not degrade like the cheap crap!

Many months ago I cleaned out an old boiler room.
Brought home lots of junk and just started sifting through it all past weekend.
HACH 890 meter in the box? (discontinued now, reagents still out there)
Took some work to bring it back to life, battery area was decayed really bad.
Some cleaning and solder to repair, but reagents ain't cheap.
Going to get some NO3 reagents to test out the meter.

A turbidity meter was also in the mix.
But what the hell, we know if the water is clear or not?

Very old school conductivity meter was also present.
Haven't compared to newer meters yet but this will most likely hit the trash.

Night All:


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Evening All:
So now no trimming for 5 evenings, what a mess!
All 3 tanks are starting to grow above the water's surface!

Performed some water testing over the last week or so.
Remember I don't change much water.
Several posts back I complained of no NO3 consumption, sitting around 40ppm.
PO4 addition brought the NO3 down rather quick!
Going to need to up the PO4 dosing in the macro mix very soon.

Valentine's Day coming up and the wife suggested Glock!
No questions asked, two kits were ordered today!


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Glock :wink2:
Ok, now I am curious about something. Low PO4 resulted in now NO3 consumption? Interesting
Lately I have been dosing 5ppm+ as a weekly dose. Dosed this amount yesterday and tested today - 2ppm in the tank. Hmmmmm
As for your plants, thinking a chain saw with a sharp blade may be in order


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Immortal1 said:


> Glock :wink2:
> Ok, now I am curious about something. Low PO4 resulted in now NO3 consumption? Interesting
> Lately I have been dosing 5ppm+ as a weekly dose. Dosed this amount yesterday and tested today - 2ppm in the tank. Hmmmmm
> As for your plants, thinking a chain saw with a sharp blade may be in order


NO3 was around or close to 40ppm and PO4 was a bit less than 1ppm.
Nitrate would not budge for a week.
So I added 3-4ppm of PO4 all @ once and NO3 consumption went right back up to @ least 3ppm per day.
I've let this happen four times now before I thought I should really mention.

Going to need to modify my macro mix solution.

Machete may be my friend for this trim?
A little bit of plant death due to some shading again.:frown2:


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Maryland Guppy said:


> NO3 was around or close to 40ppm and PO4 was a bit less than 1ppm.
> Nitrate would not budge for a week.
> So I added 3-4ppm of PO4 all @ once and NO3 consumption went right back up to @ least 3ppm per day.
> I've let this happen four times now before I thought I should really mention.


MG that is very interesting.

I've always dosed relatively high levels of PO4. If I cut it back, there are always some plants that rebel a bit. Tank always does better with more.

Now wondering if cutting it back is also affecting rate of NO3 uptake?


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Greggz said:


> MG that is very interesting.
> 
> I've always dosed relatively high levels of PO4. If I cut it back, there are always some plants that rebel a bit. Tank always does better with more.
> 
> Now wondering if cutting it back is also affecting rate of NO3 uptake?


Exactly what I was thinking! PO4 runs low, Nitrate builds up, GDA gets happy - interesting


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

I still make a macro solution for dosing.
Strangely over the past year I have been lowering the concentration of NO3 and increasing the PO4.
But it was never an extreme change, this one will be different!


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Maryland Guppy said:


> I still make a macro solution for dosing.
> Strangely over the past year I have been lowering the concentration of NO3 and increasing the PO4.
> But it was never an extreme change, this one will be different!


Well that's not surprising to me. Plants like PO4.

My NO3O4 ratio is currently about 2:1......a far cry from the 10:1 I have seen written about so many times.


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## Blue Ridge Reef (Feb 10, 2008)

Greggz said:


> Well that's not surprising to me. Plants like PO4.
> 
> My NO3O4 ratio is currently about 2:1......a far cry from the 10:1 I have seen written about so many times.


Interesting. I never understood why K2PO4 even came in the same size container as a dry fert seeing how little is called for. In the past I've only upped it when I saw GSA or took the rare test and saw it was low. Going to try doubling the amount this week, thanks for sharing that.


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## vvDO (Oct 18, 2010)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Evening All:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for sharing...

Have you noticed any changes in your plants or an increase in GSA as your phosphate levels reduced?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Greggz said:


> Well that's not surprising to me. Plants like PO4.
> 
> My NO3O4 ratio is currently about 2:1......a far cry from the 10:1 I have seen written about so many times.


I always ran about 10:2 or 10:3

No GSA in the tank at all.

A little hair algae in the back right corner where all the debris ends up.
We will not discuss the BBA all over the slimmer, heater and spraybar! :grin2:
If it's warm or plastic BBA is a magnet in my tank, but I really take no preventative measures on these items either.

I did change about 10 gallons of water today.
That's a big one for me in a day!

Big trim is happening, no salvage yard projects either, if it looks bad from shading right to the trash!

More later and maybe some pics.


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Pics are always appreciated as I am not a big reader :grin2:


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## celticfrog42 (Oct 22, 2019)

Apologies, I posted on the wrong thread. Although I do follow along here.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Evening:

I've been busy of late not to mention being out for 2 days each week for two weeks while nursing a cold! 

Two corys were lost to the surface skimmer in total.
They were so damn small and I felt terrible about it.
The C123's have a better mind set and stay away from such.
No more small panda corys!

Been trimming as needed in all 3 tanks.
Going to test my water parameters this eve, been about a month.
Twelve days since dosing, this could be interesting?

Algae is really bad on PVC items in the tank though, mostly BBA.
Green hair algae all over the cord to the surface skimmer.
Glass and plants are clean so no worries there.
Since my phosphate target has been higher maybe that is the cure?

Really need to do some water changes real soon.
Been topping off and only changing water for what goes in the trim tray.
It is working but I feel the need for a bit more is required right now.
Just a gut feeling shall we say.

Later!


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## Matt69 (Jul 9, 2017)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Evening:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Hopefully you get over your cold soon, I enjoy your journal. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Do you still keep rotala vietnam h'ra? I just grabbed two tissue culture cups from the LFS yesterday (in a bit of rough shape, he clearance them off to me, saying if any of his customers could get it to grow I could, ha!).

If you have a picture/ any advice on this one it would be great to learn more!


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Matt69 said:


> Hopefully you get over your cold soon, I enjoy your journal.


Thanks! 

Our weather has been strange here, warm to cold with lots of rain.





Grobbins48 said:


> Do you still keep rotala vietnam h'ra? I just grabbed two tissue culture cups from the LFS yesterday (in a bit of rough shape, he clearance them off to me, saying if any of his customers could get it to grow I could, ha!).
> 
> If you have a picture/ any advice on this one it would be great to learn more!


Easy plant to keep and will get really red under higher PAR.
Only pic I could find real quick.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Easy plant to keep and will get really red under higher PAR.
> Only pic I could find real quick.


Great! It looks like it branches out quite a bit. I hope these TC's take- It would be nice to get into the rotala game a bit...

Thanks for sharing this!


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

I originally got 4 stems of this from Tom Bartlett.
It can turn into a jungle rather quick.

Occasionally a few stems will just bend over and new plants are growing @ every node.
Let it go long enough to snip new stems from the main.
I mostly keep top growth and trash the bottoms so I can't say how a traditional trim works.


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## Donedeal (Feb 22, 2019)

I've spent the past few days at work reading through your journal. Enjoyed the whole journey and learned a lot! Did you catch those ember tetras locally?


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Donedeal said:


> I've spent the past few days at work reading through your journal. Enjoyed the whole journey and learned a lot! Did you catch those ember tetras locally?


Harlequin rasboras from House of Tropicals in Glen Burnie.
Usually they have them in stock.

Thank You by the way and Welcome to the Forum!


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Been quiet these days, and have been busy.
Maybe a little break is good.

Tanks are overgrown to an extreme level.
Trimming flat out sucks!


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Has been a little while since an update - was wondering. I trim every Sunday and generate atleast a gallon bucket of waste...
Can only imagine the rolling tub you may need to use. 
Hopefully you are staying safe out there.


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

He lives!! I was starting to wonder if you were OK man.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Immortal1 said:


> I trim every Sunday and generate atleast a gallon bucket of waste...
> Can only imagine the rolling tub you may need to use.
> Hopefully you are staying safe out there.


All kinds of growth above the water line.
3 species per eve trimming generates a lot of waste right now.

Safe I am so far.
Getting hazard pay on top of salary being in the food industry.


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Yes sir, I can imagine you are a busy man working in the food industry - regardless which portion of the industry it is.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Good to hear from you, and stay safe!


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## celticfrog42 (Oct 22, 2019)

Wow, that plant is beautiful!


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## Tejas Kadam (Jun 19, 2018)

what is best substrate for plants to thrive inert or any brand aquasoil


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Grobbins48 said:


> Good to hear from you, and stay safe!


Been lots going on lately and still have not really got a good trimming done.

Mom is in a nursing home and they now have two reported cases.

Ammo is suffering a great shortage these days.
No more days @ the range to conserve on ammo.

My trusty horse of 15+ years passed away last weekend.

When it rains it pours I guess. :frown2::frown2::frown2:


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Been lots going on lately and still have not really got a good trimming done.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


MG I am so sorry to hear of this news, it is hard to find the words. The loss of a beloved and beautiful animal is always difficult. May your you and your family, especially your mother, stay safe and healthy through this time. Though you all must be physically distant, I hope you are able to find ways to be together.


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Been lots going on lately and still have not really got a good trimming done.
> 
> Mom is in a nursing home and they now have two reported cases.
> 
> ...


So sorry to hear about your situation. The whole nursing home thing is tough these days. Pretty sure the pic I have of you was on that horse - very sad to hear he passed :crying:
Wish you all the best in dealing with these tough times. Can understand not having a lot of time for the tank. Stay safe my friend.


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

MG very sorry to hear about your mother and the nursing home. Hopefully they can stem the tide and reduce the spread there. 

My parents live in a retirement community with over 5K homes. They just reported their first few cases, and I can only imagine the consequences if it starts sweeping through communities like that. 

And sorry to hear about your horse as well. Always sad to lose an animal that is a big part of your life. 

Stay safe and healthy and hopefully better times ahead for us all.


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## burr740 (Feb 19, 2014)

Sorry to hear that man. Noticed I was the only one to like the bad news post. It was just my way of showing sympathy. Best wishes to you and esp your Mother. I went through a long and, well awful situation with mine pretty much all last year. If she was still around for this pandemic...I dont even want to imagine it. Just know that me and everyone else here is thinking of you guys and wishing you the best


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Good Evening All:

I have no beautiful plant pictures yet, still overgrown lots.

No more bad news, that is a plus!
Mom is well and no outbreak @ the nursing home, just two isolated cases still.

I'm not looking for a new horse any time soon.
I know many people with horses and this could be easy but I'm not in a hurry.
State Parks near me are closed to horseback riding, our camp ground is closed till further notice.
Wife and daughter don't even feel like going since my horse has passed.
I've pushed the women in the family for years to take the lead but they have declined.

I may be looking to leave Maryland within the year.
A lateral move within the company that would eliminate my mortgage.
This could be a big win on the retirement side of things for me.
Again, lots going on still!!!


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Good Evening All:
> 
> I have no beautiful plant pictures yet, still overgrown lots.
> 
> ...



Hmmm, eliminating the morgage would be a good thing - assuming the cost is not too great. I honestly would not want to move at this point in my life. 

Very good news regarding your mom. 

Again, sorry about the horse and the situation.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

burr740 said:


> Noticed I was the only one to like the bad news post. It was just my way of showing sympathy. Best wishes to you and esp your Mother. I went through a long and, well awful situation with mine pretty much all last year.


Thanks Joe, and I fully understand the "Liking" of a bad news post.
Still think all forums should have a "NotLike" button too!!!




Immortal1 said:


> Hmmm, eliminating the morgage would be a good thing - assuming the cost is not too great. I honestly would not want to move at this point in my life.
> 
> Very good news regarding your mom.
> 
> Again, sorry about the horse and the situation.


Moving was in the wife's and my plans all along.
We knew it would be a bit later in life.
The cost will not concern me, to be able to move to a farm life in the mid south east with @ least 50 acres suits me just fine.
Let's just say for now I'll end up being a bit closer to Joe!

I bought way more than I could really afford in the mid 90's.
Over time the equity and home improvements made a large impact.
Being 58 this year I will not work past 65, no way, no how.
Moving within the year will provide 6 years of dumping an equivalent mortgage payment into my 8% company match retirement fund.
A large burst @ the end that I will not need to draw from immediately either.

The "Mom" story changed this morning! :frown2:
Mom called me around 9am and said her room mate expired this morning.
Mom had a mild fever last Monday or so and failed to tell me they did a swab test.
They called me @ 10am this morning to tell me of the test and she tested positive for Covid19.
Her room mate was not Covid19 positive but expired of pneumonia not Covid19 related.
So for mom 6 days in and a fever for only one day and getting better every day.
Mom is a tough old bird and we have decided not to tell her of the positive test @ this time.

This is an ever revolving story @ this time, more to follow as things progress!


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Thanks Joe, and I fully understand the "Liking" of a bad news post.
> Still think all forums should have a "NotLike" button too!!!
> 
> Moving was in the wife's and my plans all along.
> ...


In one way or another, it is good to hear your mom is a "tough old bird". The mere fact that she is improving already is a very good sign - pray for continued improvement. Funny how that virus can be so selective - younger marathon runners or military personal dying and just as many elderly living. Very odd.


Closer to Joe... Guess there could be worse things in life :grin2:
Given what little I know about you - the 50 acres and minimal snow sounds like a perfect place for you. And being able to hit 65 with little or no mortgage - perfect!


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## celticfrog42 (Oct 22, 2019)

Good thoughts for your, Mom! 

Retiring on 50 acres is a nice little dream to keep you moving toward the retirement goals. Hang tough!


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Update:
Mom is doing well, a bit light on appetite but surely not getting any worse.
Sounds like you're talking to someone with the flu but not bad.

The retirement goal is Tennessee for me!
A lateral move within the company should be easy.
Coronavirus has really screwed things up and maybe I can move next Spring?
Been cleaning up around the homestead too, we look @ all items as if it will go with the move, if not it's either going to the bonfire or the dump.
The boneyard cleanup involves a lot of scrap metals, aluminum and stainless, these will go to the scrap yard for sure.

The local aquatic plant club hosted Chantz Cramer from Florida today.
This was our monthly meeting, virtual on Facebook.
Similar to work now that everything is on Zoom,We hold weekly background contests and such.

My tanks:
Growing much above the water lately.
Don't feel so bad since I got to see Chantz's emersed growth!
This is no excuse since I grow so many species submerged.

Tomorrow I'm going to make R/O water all day and trim plants!!! :icon_mrgr


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Good to hear mom is improving! 
So, when you move, are you going to have to change your screen name? Not sure if I can get used to "Tennessee Guppy" 
Not sure what all you have at your place, but thinking about my place and deciding to more 500-700 miles away - ouch. Would need atleast a year of prep and a few semi's LOL

Was just thinking... would be interesting to have a monthly Zoom meeting for TPT members. Not sure what all we would talk about - tank maintenance and some adult beverages?

Reminds me - I better go thru some stuff in the RO drum so I can do water changes tomorrow.

Good luck on the trimming


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

It will still be MG for me!!!

Moving sucks, I've done this 23 years ago last time.
It will be the final move though and for the better. >

Mom is stable, holding her own but surely not getting worse thus far.


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

23 years - ouch. We have been here since 2003.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Immortal1 said:


> 23 years - ouch. We have been here since 2003.


Well in 2011 hurricane Irene destroyed my house in late August.
So much "stuff" was removed/damaged.
That thinned things out a lot to the tune of 185K in damages.
Think I posted a few pics of this in the past, maybe?

We have been gradually cleaning out "stuff".
Theory, is it worth the move or not???
The "boneyard" in the woods is almost cleaned out except for what will be scrapped for $.
Lots of stainless steel and aluminum will bring some $.

Thinking of a bonfire in the near future.
Several piles of brush need to go before a house sale can happen.

Mom is getting a bit better now.
Better appetite but moving uphill slowly.

Several projects to complete before I can move.
One room in the house left to renovate, aggregate for driveway and some misc.
To the tune of about 2K which is not so bad.

Trimming:
It just has not happened yet!
I'm a bad plant parent @ this time.
What can I say???


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Good Evening All:

Mom is doing well, survived coronavirus, quarantine of 14 days, 3 days in an observation area and finally returned to her room.
Near the end of the 14 days she had a lack of appetite and all food had no taste.
Told her to eat or she'd be visiting Davey Jones Locker, so she ate! :grin2:

My youngest daughter is getting married in September.:grin2:
It has also kept us busy, wife helping and me spending, go figure! :frown2:

Tanks:
Getting topped off, feeding phish, and need to test water and dose ferts.
Been a while since ferts have been added, thus some testing is in order.
It is a pathetic emersed mess, I will get pics before I touch it and gladly post them.
If anything it is an example of how far one's self can let things go!
From what I can see some plant species are lost, it's very thick.
WTH I had too many species anyway.
I can always get plants and growing ain't all that, been @ this game a while.
Depends more on my time devotion to the whole thing.

Horses:
Our camp ground is still closed and I'm not ready to shop for a new horse.
Since camp is closed most friends don't know my horse has passed on.
I'm sure I'll see offers as thing open up and friends know my situation.
I will be picky, my horse will be very hard to replace.
IMHO it will take 3 riding seasons until a new young horse and I truly work as one.

Gunsmith:
Built 3 rifles and 2 pistols for myself.
Some rifle range time for me on Memorial Day!
Not trying to burn up ammo but get some guns sighted in.
Coronavirus seems to have created a huge backorder in anything gun related.
This too shall pass as time goes on!

Upside:
Some pics of the emersed mess very soon!

Night All:


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## zivvel (Apr 17, 2013)

MG, I just finished reading through your journal. I'm looking forward to pics of course, but only as other events permit. I wish you the best with your mom, your move, and your horse situation.


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Good Evening All:
> 
> Mom is doing well, survived coronavirus, quarantine of 14 days, 3 days in an observation area and finally returned to her room.
> Near the end of the 14 days she had a lack of appetite and all food had no taste.
> ...


LOL, Davey Jones locker. Good to her she is doing well.
Congrats on the future wedding - always fun.
Funny how life seems to always take precedent over growing plants. Fortunately, they seldom seem to mind.
Building guns - interesting! Something I have never done.
Look forward to pics as always.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Immortal1 said:


> LOL, Davey Jones locker. Good to her she is doing well.
> Congrats on the future wedding - always fun.
> Funny how life seems to always take precedent over growing plants. Fortunately, they seldom seem to mind.
> Building guns - interesting! Something I have never done.
> Look forward to pics as always.


Good Evening All:

Mom is fine, she'll be 95 in December.

Wedding prep is killing me.
It will be hosted here @ the compound and too many people!

Plants are more or less as an emersed culture @ this point.
Growing out of cracks in the tank canopies twisting around.
Top offs and phish feeding is still about it.
Not my normal game but things happen.

Gun building is something I would not advocate right now.
Between Covid19 & BLM, parts are almost not available.

Pics:
None yet, too much happening lately.

Sadly it may not be until after mid September that I get my act together!


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Good Evening All:
> 
> Mom is fine, she'll be 95 in December.
> 
> ...


Good to hear from you, and good to hear your Mom is doing well.

Seems that for many the tanks get put on the back burner during the summer months. Been the same for me, summer is too short and trying to enjoy every bit of it.

Good luck with the wedding. Sounds like you have your hands full!


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Good Evening All:

The wedding is this Saturday so tomorrow is hump day @ the compound.
Tents, tables, and chairs etc...
Completed a lot of stuff today while getting ready.

Mom is alive and well but very down in the dumps these days.
She fell while trying to do things on her own, all this did was stir up her arthritis.
She is not coming to the wedding since that would put her in quarantine for 2 weeks.
Quarantine was not handled well when she had the virus and was moved out of her room.



Greggz said:


> Good to hear from you, and good to hear your Mom is doing well.
> 
> Seems that for many the tanks get put on the back burner during the summer months. Been the same for me, summer is too short and trying to enjoy every bit of it.
> 
> Good luck with the wedding. Sounds like you have your hands full!


Tanks:
Well, they look like total crap these days!
Phish are all alive and well, some plants emersed, some are gone, and some are just fine.
I am thinking that by October 1st I will be able to get back to growing.

Many lessons have been learned regarding dosing etc...
During these times no dosing, just top offs, reports of my findings in the future.

Sorry I have been away lately.
Many of you are my internet friends and I'm sorry I have been away.

Waiting for the end of the Pandemic on November 4th!

Night All:


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Hey MG good to hear from you.

I hope you have a wonderful wedding celebration.

Look forward to hearing your thoughts from the "neglect". 

Will it lead to a new MG dosing (or not dosing) regimen??


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Seeing as it is Sunday morning, I am hoping the wedding went well (guess I can't wish you good luck on the past). 
Also happy to hear mom is doing as well. Maybe some competitive Euchre will bring her spirits up (yes, LOL).

A frind of mine named Phil once told me - "some times you just keep your hands out of the tank and let the plants find there way" (or something close to that). Curious how that will apply in your case 
Look forward to your next post.


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## Vishaquatics (May 18, 2019)

Hi @Maryland Guppy, I just wanted to say that this is an incredible thread. I spent about 2-3 hours today reading through all 44 pages and it is so informative. Including your successes and mistakes have been very eye-opening and insightful. I am sorry that your horse passed away, but I am happy that your family is doing well.

When you did the dirt in cups capped with BDBS, were you dosing the water column? If so, what was your water column fert regimen? Thank you in advance.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Vishaquatics said:


> When you did the dirt in cups capped with BDBS, were you dosing the water column?


I have always dosed the water column, my levels may have been lower than many others.

Bump:


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Good Evening All:

Trouble with lighting first.
When plants grow up into the LED's there are issues.








Unlike an occasional splash of water the plants destroy the pads on the pucks.
Not to mention I have stainless steel socket head screws now.


Several islands of plants like this have been salvaged.
The bottoms are mush but many plants and branches @ the surface.










Density of many plants has gone wild.










AR has grown over 24" bending over and growing additional sprouts.










I am finally getting things cleaned up.
No WC's just topping off with R/O water and no ferts for 6 months.
CO2 has been gone for two weeks, reloading 20lb @ work tomorrow.

TDS up to 392, WC's are by vacuuming the substrate.
Little bit every few days.

For those that follow my daughters wedding @ the compound was awesome!
Social distancing was not observed in any way, WTH right!

Mom is fine in the nursing home and still remains grumpy.
Survived a mid April case of Covid19 with no issue, sort of like Trump!
@ 94 years old, that's pretty good.

My work has been unchanged.
Every day, in the shop, work with my mechanics as usual.

Night All:


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## ipkiss (Aug 9, 2011)

wow! that looks rough! but hey, life happens. I'm not criticizing, cuz we've all seen how crazy my tanks get too!  Here's hoping for the best for recovery and the next chapter!


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

Hey MG good to see an update.

You have clearly taken the "jungle" look to a new extreme!

Look forward to seeing you whip it back into shape.


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

Good morning MG! Kinda amazed at how brutal plants can be to electronics. Suppose if one lets mother nature take over there will be nothing left BUT mother nature 
Good to hear the wedding went well and that mom is back to normal.
Sounds like it's time to sharpen the scissors a bit...


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Good Evening All:

Things were looking up for my tanks for a bit.
Mom passed away a week ago peacefully during her sleep.
My time has been consumed in dealing with this event.
A little over a month shy of reaching 95.

I've been trying to do something small with each tank every eve.
More like advanced therapy right now more than usual.

Two weeks ago I went to the LFS and got a few bunches.
$34 got me 6-bacopa colorata, 8-ambulia, 12-R.nanjenshan, 8-ludwigia narrow, and 10-L. hippuroides.
They are pearling and growing with zero micros but growth is strange.
Dosed micros to .1ppm of Fe last eve, tanks showed "0" Fe on the test.

In time I will post what tank levels were before clean up.
I can only say that plants can grow like mad with very little ferts in the water column.
All plants seem suppressed until they break the surface.
I reckon I have a lot to say about growing, since the end of March I dosed zero ferts, only top offs with R/O, feeding phish 2x per week.
Lots of mosquito larva in my tank during the warmer months were quickly cleaned up by the phish.

More in the near future:


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## Greggz (May 19, 2008)

So sorry to hear about your Mother. Have not lost a parent yet, so can only imagine the sense of loss.

My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family.


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## Grobbins48 (Oct 16, 2017)

So sorry to hear of your loss MG. My thoughts are with you and your entire family.


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

So sorry to hear about your mom. Went down that road with my dad many years ago - not much fun. Prayers to you and your family.
Will someday have to compare notes on minimal water column dosing.


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## zivvel (Apr 17, 2013)

MG, I'm sorry for your loss. This hobby makes great thinking therapy. Keep at it. I'm looking forward to your updates as always.


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## ipkiss (Aug 9, 2011)

Sorry to hear, MG . My condolences. 

Yes, tanks are good therapy. May you and everyone find peace.


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