# Markos Mustard Gas Halfmoon Bettas



## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

my mustard gas blue dragon halfmoon bettas have completed their spawn:

















































































hopefully will have tons of fry tomorrow.


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## Smitty06 (Mar 25, 2012)

If they do hatch and make it, I will definitly be interested in a male or female.


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## CharleeFoxtrot (Jan 29, 2004)

Really nice pictures! Good luck with the hatch!


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## Mumford (Nov 12, 2012)

I want a baby boy if they survive! Those are beautiful!

Mind if I asked where you got them from? Aquabid?


- Mumford


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

thanks folks.

smitty; no prob. i should have tons. ill keep this thread updated, so youll know when the are reaching marketable size.

sure mumford. i got them both of off beejays bettas. you can contact them via facebook.


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## Smitty06 (Mar 25, 2012)

Thanks Marko, this is the one color betta that I have always wanted. Thanks for breeding them


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## Mumford (Nov 12, 2012)

Thanks!

Looking forward to one!


- Mumford


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## keithy (Jun 8, 2010)

Marko, 
I'll hit you up once those babies mature.


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## Tinder (Feb 15, 2013)

I will buy one or two if they mature well


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## Wayne Dwops (Nov 29, 2012)

Congrats! Now sell me one!


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## florafan (Jan 21, 2006)

I would also like a couple (either male or female - I like both) when they mature!


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

no problem guys. its too early for me to be recording orders, though. so just check the thread every once in a while, and once i start jarring, thats when you know ill be close to starting to sell em.

i spotted some eggs up near the nest not surrounded by bubbles. so i got some great pics. you can see the developing embryos (so i KNOW that these eggs are in fact fertile  ).


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## Mumford (Nov 12, 2012)

Holy crap you have a nice camera lol

Good luck!


- Mumford


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## ADJAquariums (Jul 5, 2012)

Good luck! i may be interested if i ever get my 5gal going!


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

the embryos have matured significantly over the past 7 hours. can see eyes, some larger veins/arteries on the membranes, and spines.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

they have hatched:


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## Mumford (Nov 12, 2012)

Awwwww look at those little fellas!!




- Mumford


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## Barbgirl (Feb 24, 2012)

Does that mean they are jarred yet?? Hahahaha. The suspense!


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

Awww! Great macro shot of the babies.


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## zoragen (Nov 3, 2009)

I can't wait to see them grow up:icon_smil


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## Wayne Dwops (Nov 29, 2012)

Wow that was quick. They are so teeny and adorable!


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

got their second feeding of microworms today. they are eating and seem to be doing well. people ask me how i take such good shots; i use statistic. i took 45 shots, 1 came out:


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## VivaDaWolf (Feb 5, 2012)

Whats the lens? I need a better macro lens


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## MSG (Jul 16, 2012)

Always love to see the new updated photos of your ecosystems. 

Regardless how many shots, your bubble nest photos are really good. I couldn't get any macro photos of my surprise spawn since 87 day old juvie betta built the nest all the way in the back. Would have totally disrupted the nest in order to take photos & he probably would have eaten them all. 

Even though I have a 10MP P&S Canon.... I reduced it to a 2MP & for taking photos.

Do you leave the father in the tank or remove once the little ones start to swim on their own?


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

VivaDaWolf said:


> Whats the lens? I need a better macro lens


was a gift, here is what it says on it: CANON MACRO LENS EF 100mm 1:2.8 USM



MSG said:


> Always love to see the new updated photos of your ecosystems.
> 
> Regardless how many shots, your bubble nest photos are really good. I couldn't get any macro photos of my surprise spawn since 87 day old juvie betta built the nest all the way in the back. Would have totally disrupted the nest in order to take photos & he probably would have eaten them all.
> 
> ...


thank you. 
you should be able to control where he builds his nest. use bubble wrap (the small bubble kind). tape it to the side of the tank in one of the front corners, where you have a good view), then put an oak or almond leaf ontop. he will think the bubble wrap is a neglected nest of his, and add to it. works every time.

remove the dad. pulled him out today. the fry no longer benefit from him, so he is just a threat; and source of waste and growth inhibiting hormones.

got some more shots, i always get a little obsessed with new spawns:


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## h4n (Jan 4, 2006)

Wow man!!! You got all the nice bettas!

Where did you get that all???

And Congrats on the babies!!

-Sent from my Samsung Note, a "Phablet"


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

Wow how did you manage to get the female?


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

h4n said:


> Wow man!!! You got all the nice bettas!
> 
> Where did you get that all???
> 
> ...


haha, thanks.
the pair i spawned was from beejays bettas, thats where i got the father of my black orchids. the marbled female was an ebay find. i overpaid for her, but i had to have her. 



sayurasem said:


> Wow how did you manage to get the female?


see response above.


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## h4n (Jan 4, 2006)

Oh well they are super nice.
Who cares if you over pay haha.

-Sent from my Samsung Note, a "Phablet"


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## Snowflake311 (Apr 20, 2011)

OMG I LOVE your photos. They are amazing. Your fish are Awesome too one of my Fav betta fish colors for sure. 

Good job on the breeding. I can't wait to see the fry when they get a little bigger. So cool.


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## Conrad283 (Dec 10, 2012)

Great pics


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

thanks guys.

fed some atisons betta starter today. this batch of fry is actually accepting it (seems to be hit or miss, had some eat it, some never eat it). im glad about this, since i will be gone for 10 days in a few weeks, so this way i can have some atisons in feeder for em in addition to whenever i can manage to get my roommates to give em microworms.


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## Fuze (Jul 26, 2012)

Awesome photos, thanks for documenting!

How many fry did you end up with?


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

Fuze said:


> Awesome photos, thanks for documenting!
> 
> How many fry did you end up with?


in the spawning tank filled with a ton of moss, leaves, ferns, hygro, and anubias? you are welcome to come and count them.


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## Option (Oct 2, 2010)

Marko, have you posted this on bettafish.com already? Your avatar seems familiar.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

ultimate bettas and njagc


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

cant stop taking pictures. they are just so awesome. 
i get a little too into my spawns...


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## ThatGuyWithTheFish (Apr 29, 2012)

Nice. Do you have to remove the fry?


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

well you cant keep the parents together, so generally you put them into a tank for raising the fry. then when they spawn remove the dam. then when the fry are free swimming remove the sire.


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## boosted23 (Mar 3, 2013)

I want one of your fry bad!!! Your male is so awsome looking!!!!


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

sure.  but its way to early for me to start selling em; be patient.

some pics of the fish, and jungle of moss that makes counting them impossible:

















































they are moving around more now, so please excuse the blurriness.


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## boosted23 (Mar 3, 2013)

Nice. I know. Lol i have been searching for months for the right betta i want and your male has the prettiest color scheme i have seen stateside. Buying from overseas through aquabid scares me.

Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk 2


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

the fry are being fed bbs now, so they have bulging orange bellies. 

























ive also been adding water for the past few days, so the tank is now 2/3 full. plan to fill it by the end of the week.


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## boosted23 (Mar 3, 2013)

Any updates on these little guys?


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## DBlauj (Apr 17, 2012)

I love the mustard gas color. I am interested in how your fry will turn out with the dragon scales. I miss my mustard gas HPK (wife named him Wilbur). He was my first fish.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

boosted23 said:


> Any updates on these little guys?


tank is on autopilot. they are getting atisons daily from a feeder, and my roommates aer gonna give em microworms every other day. i am in peru for the week. 


DBlauj said:


> I love the mustard gas color. I am interested in how your fry will turn out with the dragon scales. I miss my mustard gas HPK (wife named him Wilbur). He was my first fish.


me too, i suspect their bodies will more resemble the mothers.


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## VivaDaWolf (Feb 5, 2012)

Peru!! ..are you getting some cool shots of native fish?


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

not that part of peru. im in cuzco right now, high up in the andes. not tropical lowland peru.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

back from peru to find the fry healthy, and now looking like miniature bettas rather than tadpoles.


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## Mumford (Nov 12, 2012)

Woah!!

Growing up fast!


- Mumford


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

some more shots of the fish:


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## Smitty06 (Mar 25, 2012)

They're looking great!!!


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## boosted23 (Mar 3, 2013)

Those are looking cool. Never seen a baby betta before. Cant wait to see their coloration!!!


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

awsome i wish i could breed betta's never had luck with them though


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## LiLGreenThumbs (Feb 20, 2013)

Some great looking betas! The egg and fry pics... Amazing!


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

Smitty06 said:


> They're looking great!!!





boosted23 said:


> Those are looking cool. Never seen a baby betta before. Cant wait to see their coloration!!!


thanks.




wicca27 said:


> awsome i wish i could breed betta's never had luck with them though


thanks. they arent all that tough to breed. the only thing easier is livebearers really. the key is to get healthy stock.




LiLGreenThumbs said:


> Some great looking betas! The egg and fry pics... Amazing!


thank you.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

this handsome stud is coloring up:


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## ADJAquariums (Jul 5, 2012)

Looking good marko! how many have survived?


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

Exciting stuff!


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

25-50.
i can count up to in the 30s. but its very inaccurate, cuz they are moving and there are a lot of plants in the tank, so i miss some, count some twice, etc.


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## dtejeda.arias (Mar 5, 2013)

Awesome!!! Your journal is making me want to get back into breeding bettas. I seen a crown tail baby betta at petco for 1.99 and bought it! Not sure why. Then I went to petsmart and seen someone changed the lids from a normal to a crown tail female with an awesome metallic color and yeah she came home with me for 99 cents! Another week or so and I'll be able to sex the baby. What are you going to do with yours after they are grown? Mustard gas HM CT would look awesome!!!! (I'm a sucker for CT)


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

mine always die right after free swimming. never fails. im pretty sure its a temp thing. im betting they get to much cool air when i go to feed.


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## dtejeda.arias (Mar 5, 2013)

I use to breed them in a car battery, once free swimming through em in a 25g water drum and feed em hard boil egg yolk back in Dominican Republic.  here for some reason it's a bit tougher to keep em alive when young


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

dtejeda.arias said:


> Awesome!!! Your journal is making me want to get back into breeding bettas. I seen a crown tail baby betta at petco for 1.99 and bought it! Not sure why. Then I went to petsmart and seen someone changed the lids from a normal to a crown tail female with an awesome metallic color and yeah she came home with me for 99 cents! Another week or so and I'll be able to sex the baby. What are you going to do with yours after they are grown? Mustard gas HM CT would look awesome!!!! (I'm a sucker for CT)


thank you.
keep some, sell the rest.
i like CTs too. my last spawn was black orchid CTs. but breeding an HM to a CT will just give you combtails. not enough ray branching or webbing to be an HM, not long enough ray extensions/webbng reductions to be a CT, and the crowning will likely be uneven (some parts of the finnage heavily crowned, others almost totally smooth). though with some selective breeding you could produce halfsuns, but this is not easy. i thought about trying to make a half sun line but gave up on that.



wicca27 said:


> mine always die right after free swimming. never fails. im pretty sure its a temp thing. im betting they get to much cool air when i go to feed.


thats odd. what do you feed? thats about the time that they need food they can/will eat fast or they starve.
if you have a heater, its not a temp issue. water holds temp very well, and they arent breathing air yet. also, i dont use full lids on my fry tanks and dont loose fry to "cold air".



dtejeda.arias said:


> I use to breed them in a car battery, once free swimming through em in a 25g water drum and feed em hard boil egg yolk back in Dominican Republic.  here for some reason it's a bit tougher to keep em alive when young


thats an interesting tank!
im guessing you kept them outside and gave em all natural insect larvae for food. sure they loved that.
its not too hard here, just you have to simulate their natural environment, while the dominican is probably similar enough that you can just leave em outside.


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## dtejeda.arias (Mar 5, 2013)

Pretty simple. Grandma use to hate when I had the tank infested with mosquito larve. Great place for a fry grow out tank. 

As far as half suns go I wouldn't start that project unless I knew the bettas genes at least 3 to 5 parents back. Gives me a bit of assurance that they will produce exactly what I want not a redhead from a few genes back lol. How far back can you vouch on your half moons?


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

only the parents.
i dont even know if the parents were siblings. 
producing a halfsun is daunting, but they do look stunning. maybe after a 2 generations of mustard gas HMs i decide to get a CT and go for it, but i doubt it.


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## dtejeda.arias (Mar 5, 2013)

3 gens or longer of a reputable breeder is a must for that sort of project. If you do decide to go for it make sure to make a journal and I want a trio ASAP


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## h4n (Jan 4, 2006)

Wow I haven't check it out since first born.
Is it me or they grow quick! 

-Sent from my Samsung Note, a "Phablet"


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

they can grow quick with the proper nutrition and water changes. you can get a betta to sellable size in 2-3 months.
thats what i am for, and seem to be on track.

most of the fry accept the cut up frozen bloodworms i fed today. which is good because for the past week they were on a BBS only diet, since they are too big for MW at this point. now i can start reintroducing variety to their diet. im hoping they will start accepting golden pearls soon.


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## acitydweller (Dec 28, 2011)

fantastic photography!


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## dtejeda.arias (Mar 5, 2013)

Have you ever tried daphnia?


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

acitydweller said:


> fantastic photography!


thanks. im unsatisfied with it though. takes me 40 shots to get 3 worth saving and posting.
part of it is the fact that they dont want to stay still, and there isnt much i can do about that.



dtejeda.arias said:


> Have you ever tried daphnia?


only frozen daphnia.
dont want to bother culturing live daphnia, since by the time they are large enough to eat them, im usually getting them to eat prepared food anyway. 
these guys are just getting to be that size, and im getting em to take cut-up frozen bloodworms.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

went to take a few pics earlier today, and found the fry were being very cooperative. got some good ones:


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## Wayne Dwops (Nov 29, 2012)

Wowwwwwwww those are some handsome little things!


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## Virto (Dec 6, 2012)

I know the frustration of trying to get good pics and throwing away what feels like 100 before you get one you like.

Assume you're using the non-L EF 100mm 2.8 Macro USM, the long focus throw and slow end-to-end travel can cost you a few shots on moving targets. I've also found that using a small flash on the hotshoe can make things easier, and it doesn't tend to glare with the EF 100mm Macro because you're close enough to the glass that it's outside of the image circle on both full-frame and crop cameras.

I also have Rebel XS, and it's pushed pretty hard at ISO 1600, but the images do clean up pretty well. The newer T4i has some pretty impressive high-ISO capabilities if you're looking to avoid using flash.

You have beautiful fish, and you take excellent pictures of them. I love following this thread.


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## ADJAquariums (Jul 5, 2012)

lookin good Marko! will you be taking orders on these anytime soon?


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

Virto said:


> I know the frustration of trying to get good pics and throwing away what feels like 100 before you get one you like.
> 
> Assume you're using the non-L EF 100mm 2.8 Macro USM, the long focus throw and slow end-to-end travel can cost you a few shots on moving targets. I've also found that using a small flash on the hotshoe can make things easier, and it doesn't tend to glare with the EF 100mm Macro because you're close enough to the glass that it's outside of the image circle on both full-frame and crop cameras.
> 
> ...


i didnt get about half of that advice, lol. ive had this camera for a while, but im still kinda like a feudal serf being given a laptop; im not equipped to fully utilize it. 
i know enough to turn the iso up to the max, and i play with the brightness to counter the fact that doing so darkens my images. then manually focus and shoot continuously while i focus from behind the fish to in front of the fish, hopefully getting one or two shots where the fish itself is both in focus and still.
probably a much better way, but im yet to manage to pull it off. 

thanks. :biggrin: 



ADJAquariums said:


> lookin good Marko! will you be taking orders on these anytime soon?


thank you.
not for at least a month. they arent even an inch long yet, and almost impossible to sex (by looking at how top-heavy they are i can guess at which ones of the larger few might end up males or females, but not accurately).


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## Fuze (Jul 26, 2012)

Oh man, these are blowing up! 

Looking great!


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## TeteRouge (Jul 26, 2009)

Beautiful, Marko! Mustard Gas HMs are a type I'd love to have... Great photos, too! Actually, I think I'm going to try your method of shooting, everything I've tried so far comes out "meh" to "adequate". (BTW sometime I have to post photos of the tank your divided 5g inspired  )


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

Fuze said:


> Oh man, these are blowing up!
> 
> Looking great!


i dont want my fish to explode... 
thanks. 



TeteRouge said:


> Beautiful, Marko! Mustard Gas HMs are a type I'd love to have... Great photos, too! Actually, I think I'm going to try your method of shooting, everything I've tried so far comes out "meh" to "adequate". (BTW sometime I have to post photos of the tank your divided 5g inspired  )


thank you.
its the only way i can get a non-blurred, in-focus picture of most fish. i use it for young bettas (they like to move a lot), and adult bettas if flaring (cuz then they are moving), as well as for CPDs, and rasboras. shrimp, i just focus directly on them, since they are pretty still.

yes, please show me that tank. im curious to see what you did with it. and im glad i was able to give you some ideas. that tank was basically me hating the look of the mesh dividers id seen and choosing to try something else. it worked quite well.


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## TeteRouge (Jul 26, 2009)

@[email protected] said:


> ...
> its the only way i can get a non-blurred, in-focus picture of most fish. i use it for young bettas (they like to move a lot), and adult bettas if flaring (cuz then they are moving), as well as for CPDs, and rasboras. shrimp, i just focus directly on them, since they are pretty still.
> 
> yes, please show me that tank. im curious to see what you did with it. and im glad i was able to give you some ideas. that tank was basically me hating the look of the mesh dividers id seen and choosing to try something else. it worked quite well.


Here it is... http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?p=3063938#post3063938  I couldn't do plexi, but.. hope you like :icon_wink

I wish I'd seen your batch of fry before I filled it, lol


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## Calmia22 (Aug 20, 2011)

The parents are beautiful! Good to see the littles are doing so good. I may be interested in a male when they are old enough.


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## hunterlook (Feb 21, 2013)

How would we go about ordering one from you once they are ready? Is there a contact list we can be added to to get info on pricing, shipping cost, etc?


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

TeteRouge said:


> Here it is... http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?p=3063938#post3063938  I couldn't do plexi, but.. hope you like :icon_wink
> 
> I wish I'd seen your batch of fry before I filled it, lol


holy crap, it looks great! better than mine, IMO. very very nice.



Calmia22 said:


> The parents are beautiful! Good to see the littles are doing so good. I may be interested in a male when they are old enough.


thank you. 
sounds good. ill keep you guys updated. once i start jarring, thats when youll know im getting close to selling em. 



hunterlook said:


> How would we go about ordering one from you once they are ready? Is there a contact list we can be added to to get info on pricing, shipping cost, etc?


once they get closer to that point (probably when i jar the first few), ill ask everyone whose interested to pm me. all the pms will be stored in a particular folder, and then when i post the first batch for sale ill send out a mass pm letting everyone know. ill also post a message here stating that i am starting to sell them off.
pricing is individual per fish, and they are all sold as a WYSIWYG, you will get an image of the exact betta before you send money. most will just be sold normally in the SnS, but some of the really nice ones may go straight to aquabid.
i generally post all the pictures i take on here, especially the ones i use for selling, cuz they look nicest in those all flared up and showing off. so if you see a fish you like and cant find it, pm me and ill let you know if its on aquabid (and give you the link), or sold, or being kept as potential breeding stock.
shipping last year was $30 or $35 for express shipping, or $12 priority, so it should be in the same ballpark. if you order a ton of fish and i need a bigger box it might go up a bit, but thats a rare case handled individually.


the fry are all accepting 300-500 micron golden pearls. i can now stuff their faces even between BBS hatches.  and more food = more growth. 
cell phone shots:


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## hunterlook (Feb 21, 2013)

Awesome, thanks for the heads up. Fry look like they're doing well and I would most likely only be getting 1 to go into it's own 10G for the bedroom. I'll make sure to keep checking in on your progress, great set up you have going and fantastic breeding skills!


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## boosted23 (Mar 3, 2013)

They are looking fantastic!!! I will be on that list for sure! Lol i hope some come out looking like the father, he is a beautiful betta.


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## Wayne Dwops (Nov 29, 2012)

Wow they're really gaining color. And I, like everyone else, cannot wait to (hopefully) buy one.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

hunterlook said:


> Awesome, thanks for the heads up. Fry look like they're doing well and I would most likely only be getting 1 to go into it's own 10G for the bedroom. I'll make sure to keep checking in on your progress, great set up you have going and fantastic breeding skills!





boosted23 said:


> They are looking fantastic!!! I will be on that list for sure! Lol i hope some come out looking like the father, he is a beautiful betta.





Wayne Dwops said:


> Wow they're really gaining color. And I, like everyone else, cannot wait to (hopefully) buy one.


thanks everyone. :biggrin:
dont worry about not getting one. there are only 30-40ish fry, but even if thats not enough, i will be spawning the male to female #2 as soon as these guys are out the door. so 3 months after these guys are on the market, their half siblings will be.


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## TeteRouge (Jul 26, 2009)

@[email protected] said:


> holy crap, it looks great! better than mine, IMO. very very nice.


Wow, thank you! I'm not sure about that, but I'd never had tried it without seeing your tank. The Mignons do a great job, and have a certain look, don't they?



@[email protected] said:


> ... i will be spawning the male to female #2 as soon as these guys are out the door. so 3 months after these guys are on the market, their half siblings will be.


Ah, good :icon_mrgr ! In 3-4 months I should have something ready, lol.


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## Warlock (Feb 28, 2012)

Marko.. are u putting ur fish in any ibc shows


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

TeteRouge said:


> Wow, thank you! I'm not sure about that, but I'd never had tried it without seeing your tank. The Mignons do a great job, and have a certain look, don't they?
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, good :icon_mrgr ! In 3-4 months I should have something ready, lol.


they do. if you keep em clean. when they are coated in brown sludge, not so much.



Warlock said:


> Marko.. are u putting ur fish in any ibc shows


i dont know. i was told i really shouldve for my black orchid spawn. in retrospect, phantosos (the marble) could have won in his class, especially if this was before he marbled out (his colors constantly change, a month ago he was totally unmarbled, now he is almost entirely white and i dont like him white, lol).
so i may. it will be a last second decision whether or not to pay for IBC membership and send 2 or 3 fish.


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

Any pics of the now white balog?


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

orchidman said:


> Any pics of the now white balog?


woke him up to snap one:


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

Woah! He really marbled out! WHy does his top fin look like that?


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

cuz he wasnt holding still.


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## Warlock (Feb 28, 2012)

i got the IBC membership.. mostly cuz you get a FREE BREEDING PAIR! 

plus the IBC Convention is in DALLAS in JUNE>. i was a show in Sept.. it was pretty cool.. but i wasn't very BETTA SAVY then.. so this june.. i am going on a spending spree!


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

a free breeder pair, huh? maybe ill have to join... lol


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## Option (Oct 2, 2010)

Warlock said:


> i got the IBC membership.. mostly cuz you get a FREE BREEDING PAIR!


Huh??


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## Warlock (Feb 28, 2012)

Option said:


> Huh??


new members can get a FREE BREEDING PAIR>. as part of the other stuff for membership..  

i just got mine.. they don't ship during winter.. LOL!!

got a pretty sweet pair of MULTICOLORS from same spawn :bounce:


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## Wayne Dwops (Nov 29, 2012)

@[email protected] said:


> woke him up to snap one:



whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat my mind is blown right now.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

the transposon inserted itself into the gene for one of the enzymes in the biochemical pathway for melanin production. no more melanin, no more black. when it moves somewhere else, the melanin will be replenished, and he will darken. some bits are already darkening. most marbles "settle" into a color or pattern. this guy isnt, he just keeps on changing. its why i dont think ill ever part with him.


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## ADJAquariums (Jul 5, 2012)

Hows it going marko? thought maybe an update was due  I love looking at the progress of the fry


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

haha, i was just about to post something. 

my dad is borrowing my camera, so i only have one pic and from my phone.

the fish are growing very well (im not calling them fry anymore, they dont fit that term IMO). they have gotten to the point where their growth rate is going to be limited mainly by the amount of food i have available: i just cannot overfeed at this point. they get 2 BS hatcheries every 24 hours, along with some microworms, and i drop a ton of atisons betta starter and golden pearls 300-500mi every time i walk by the tank. i also feed some cut up frozen bloodworms daily, and will soon get frozen daphnia. none of the food is left uneaten, and 2 hours after their bellies are swollen from gorging themselves, they are ready to eat again. 
to cope with the waste they produce, and the growth inhibitory hormone they are secreting, i am doing 90% water changes daily.
some of the larger ones are looking very nice and have colored up a lot. have a few favorites...
today i spotted 2 cool things. 
the first is one of the medium sized fish, who has a MASSIVE caudal spread. a bettas caudal spread is only at its max when the fish is flaring. the sire is an OHM (over half moon), but just swimming around looks like a super delta. one of the fry is obviously an OHM, and not flaring (none of them are flaring yet). i have very high hopes for him/her. definitely a strong rosetail/feathertail, and while many such fish develop with spinal deformities and improper uneven scaling, this one has neither of those 2 issues.
the second, is i ided the first male. you can tell based on the anal fin. males anal fins will elongate toward the caudal. to form a point. females have a weak point or a right angle. here he is:









unfortunately both of those 2 fish are red, not yellow. and im not gonna be keeping them. they MAY go to an IBC show and be auctioned if i get a membership. otherwise ill sell em online.


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## Scottyhorse (Mar 13, 2013)

I'd also be interested in one maybe


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## keithy (Jun 8, 2010)

marko, sorry if I am asking some pretty basic questions, but I really want to know why red is not a keeper for you? You're really getting good growth from this spawn.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

Scottyhorse said:


> I'd also be interested in one maybe


Cool. I keep this thread updated so you will see when they are near selling.



keithy said:


> marko, sorry if I am asking some pretty basic questions, but I really want to know why red is not a keeper for you? You're really getting good growth from this spawn.


No worries. 
I am breeding a line of mustard gas fish. That means they need to be yellow. Yellow is recessive to red - which is why nobody I've asked seems to be able to explain how two yellow bettas made a 50% red spawn.
So red fish are automatically unsuitable for this line. Great for a red blue bicolor butterfly line though. 
I get a lot of compliments and questions on my growth rate. Its actually very simple to achieve, it just takes a bit of extra work. The key is feeding them as much as possible, and massive daily water changes. Thats it.


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## keithy (Jun 8, 2010)

Thanks for the answer. I learned something from the "betta master" himself. Will be checking in regularly to see the progress.


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## Rilly10 (Apr 5, 2013)

Awesome pics! Thanks for the updates!


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

got my camera back. couldnt get any good shots of the big fish, they hang out by the surface where its harder to get a shot, and move more. also cant color-correct my photos, so all the fish will look a little drabber than in real life. but anyway here they are:

















































ill try and take better shots tomorrow or the day after during the water change.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

some betta shots:


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## Clemsons2k (May 31, 2009)

Love that dark fella.


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

they are nice. how long can you keep them all together like that? ive heard a few times that if you raise them together some times males can be kept in the same tank. it doesnt happen to often but on rare occations it can


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

Clemsons2k said:


> Love that dark fella.


there are quite a few of them. the dragon scaling is more apparent on a darkbodied fish - so i find them quite pretty too. but the light bodied ones so far have better yellows... choosing the breeder might be tough.



wicca27 said:


> they are nice. how long can you keep them all together like that? ive heard a few times that if you raise them together some times males can be kept in the same tank. it doesnt happen to often but on rare occations it can


thank you.
until the males near sexual maturity. after they start flaring and nipping, they need to be jarred. if a bettas tail is nipped while it is still growing, it can deform. this doesnt really affect the fish much, and might even be slightly beneficial to a halfmoon (the sire of this spawn trims his own tail by nipping it), but it is undesirable and makes the fish very hard to sell. being difficult to sell is a huge problem for the fish, because fish i cannot sell online, have to be sold for store credit at the LFS - where they have about a 50% chance of being sold to someone who keeps them in an unfiltered bowl. i cannot keep every last fish.
i have not heard recently of a case where males were kept together. i have heard of one instance where a whole spawn was kept together in a very large tank (200 gallons if i remember correctly) and then the males coexisted by claiming territories and would breed with their sisters and offspring would be removed and raised elsewhere. its an attempt to simulate their natural environment. but i would never attempt such a thing. i hate it when my bettas interact when i dont mean to breed them - sometimes they manage to jump past the divider and under the lid of the barracks. just the other day the mustard gas sire and the female #2 (who i plan to breed to him an another month or two) ended up in the same chamber (the female jumped into his) and were in the early stages of spawning, unsuccessful embraces, when i removed her. both were pretty beat up since a 1 gal volume is too small for a safe spawning. both are fine though, and i added a dose of sulfatiozole just to be safe along with a waterchange.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

picked up 2 breeder traps from petsmart today, as i have finals next week and dont have time to care for jars just yet and im noticing nipped fins. so i separated out the 2 largest males. wanted to get 2 more, but they only had the 2. will try petco in a few days. its an excellent design actually. hangs outside of the tank and uses airflow to push water into it and overflows it back into the tank. 
my cameras charger died, so until i get a new one, i can only take cell pics:

this little boy is a gorgeous OHM MG - 









some good dragon scaling -









some more fish - 









the two traps -


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

try this 

http://www.kensfish.com/aquarium-su...pplies/marina-hang-on-breeding-box-small.html


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## Neptoon'd (Apr 21, 2013)

The betta in the first picture in your last post is very nice!


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

wicca27 said:


> try this
> 
> http://www.kensfish.com/aquarium-su...pplies/marina-hang-on-breeding-box-small.html


thats what i am using. lol got 2 of em set up, and wouldve gotten another one but they only had 2. and they will come in handy for when i breed shrimp to separate out culls before shipping and such.



Neptoon'd said:


> The betta in the first picture in your last post is very nice!


thank you. he is like a miniature version of his father, but with less blue on the tail, which is kinda what i was going for. i may keep him as a breeder, but there are a few other candidates.


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

that is why i added the link its to kens fish and they are like $5.00 each online so might be able to get more that way


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

im gonna check petco tomorrow or the day after for another 1 or 2. im not shelling out the cash to order them, especially since they wont arrive til next week, and at that point itll be days til i head home and can actually jar. 
thanks for the thought though


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## Wayne Dwops (Nov 29, 2012)

I find it so funny that many of them turned out red instead of yellow


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## AdamC13 (Mar 28, 2013)

I love the one in the middle of the last two pictures (I think its the same fish)

And @wayne I could be wrong but I BELIEVE red is a more dominant color than the mustard gas variation.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

Wayne Dwops said:


> I find it so funny that many of them turned out red instead of yellow


so do i. genetically, its not possible. but nobody told the fish. 
R (red) is dominant to NR (nonred - NR1 is yellow, NR2 is orange). since the parents were both yellow, they had to be NR/NR. so they dont have an R to pass to the offspring, so all the offspring should be NR/NR. but somehow there is R in their gene pool.



AdamC13 said:


> I love the one in the middle of the last two pictures (I think its the same fish)
> 
> And @wayne I could be wrong but I BELIEVE red is a more dominant color than the mustard gas variation.


it is. 
this is true. but both parents were mustard gas, so they couldnt have had red to pass on to the offspring... no clue how it happened. neither does anyone ive spoken to about it.


got a new charger for my camera, so its back in action. 3 new pics. 
my amazing redblue rosetail. this guy has his tail folded and overlapping even in full flare - massive amounts of finnage on him:









and an OHM red blue. less finnage, but the lines are crisper and the colors perfect:









and a cute mustard gas HM:


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

i really like the one in the bottom right corner. is it possible the red might change later on?
i have what was a really pretty opal (thats what im calling her any way) colored female you can see though her if she is in front of light and has a purple color when reflecting on the body, the her fins started getting tipped in blue and now have some red to them. think she is a marble? ill get a pic in a day or so if it would help. she is just a petsmart betta so nothing fancy


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## gabysapha (Oct 26, 2011)

Do you sell your bettas on this forum? Lovely bettas by the way. Love the updates and photos! More more more!


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

wicca27 said:


> i really like the one in the bottom right corner. is it possible the red might change later on?
> i have what was a really pretty opal (thats what im calling her any way) colored female you can see though her if she is in front of light and has a purple color when reflecting on the body, the her fins started getting tipped in blue and now have some red to them. think she is a marble? ill get a pic in a day or so if it would help. she is just a petsmart betta so nothing fancy


no. red bettas cannot turn yellow. the red or yellow could fade to clear (in that layer) from marbling if the fish is a marble (these arent, to my knowledge), but not change between red and yellow. 
opal? probably a pale bodied pastel. 
may be a marble, but doesnt have to be for that. bettas colors do change a little as they age. marbling is much more drastic and rapid. 



gabysapha said:


> Do you sell your bettas on this forum? Lovely bettas by the way. Love the updates and photos! More more more!


yes.  ill post a FS thread when i start selling. but some of the fish will be sold on aquabid, and if i choose to join the IBC, ill send some to shows and auctions. but not to worry when it comes to availability. im spawning the male to female #2 in a few weeks (hopefully). 
i would give more pics, but the bettas are VERY active at this stage, never sitting still, and it makes getting a good pic incredibly difficult.


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

thanks marko for the info. the female i have is a white bodie but a purple sheen to her in the light. i have not clue what color she would be. i thought she was white till i got her home and saw her under my lights lol.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

something like this, but without the blue marbling? http://cdn.sulitstatic.com/images/2...65d3061e835b5ff73c5e1a1b4a7c291aac5b44344.jpg


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## ADJAquariums (Jul 5, 2012)

I hope you've got one for me! i'm wanting one soooo bad, now that I've seen them I want one more  looking great! hope to see that FS thread soon!


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## Tinder (Feb 15, 2013)

I also can not wait! just saying, i would like a Mustard Gas but if your demand is too high, I am open to taking some of the other colorations.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

ADJAquariums said:


> I hope you've got one for me! i'm wanting one soooo bad, now that I've seen them I want one more  looking great! hope to see that FS thread soon!


few more weeks. growth is slowing down, since i really should jar a bunch of em, but no time for one more week. then they will be jarred and then growth should be explosive. 



Tinder said:


> I also can not wait! just saying, i would like a Mustard Gas but if your demand is too high, I am open to taking some of the other colorations.


itll be first come (or contact, really) first serve - except for the ones i put up on aquabid, obviously; those go to the highest bidder.
and i mentioned before that ill be spawning the same male to another female - hopefully in 2 weeks.


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## aluka (Feb 2, 2013)

@[email protected] said:


> so do i. genetically, its not possible. but nobody told the fish.
> R (red) is dominant to NR (nonred - NR1 is yellow, NR2 is orange). since the parents were both yellow, they had to be NR/NR. so they dont have an R to pass to the offspring, so all the offspring should be NR/NR. but somehow there is R in their gene pool.
> 
> 
> ...


mommy fish has some explaining to do, lol


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

marko yes like that but with out the blue on the body and as the fins go the blue is on the bottom and middle clear next to the body. what is that color called marko


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

thats a white pastel. the pastel is from a bit of blue iridescence, which gives the powdery appearance; and explains the bluish tint.


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

cool thanks so much


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## snakeskin (Jul 28, 2005)

I'm not an expert in genetics by any measure but sometimes individual colors can be controlled by several genes. Being as you don't know the lineage of the parents several generations back, its possible that there was enough of the wrong colored genes in the mix!


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## Clemsons2k (May 31, 2009)

Or maybe hes not the daddy!


*Jerry! Jerry! Jerry!*


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

red is a single gene with 3 alleles - at least according to the sources i have found. red is dominant to orange and yellow. so 2 yellow fish cant carry an allele for red...
it could be that there are 2 genes that are closely linked, and that exhibit complimentation perhaps. but i am not about to sequence the fish's genome to find out.

no they are the parents. bettas have external fertilization, i know exactly which 2 fish are the parents.


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## keithy (Jun 8, 2010)

The red makes the male looks sweeter. But that's just me and I am not in any way a show betta expert.


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## Clemsons2k (May 31, 2009)

@[email protected] said:


> no they are the parents. bettas have external fertilization, i know exactly which 2 fish are the parents.


I know I was making a joke :flick:


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

got some good pictures for you guys:

















































































and i got a larger breeder box. seperated out the largest, nicest MG. he is quite the looker, excellent color, very strong yellows, OHM, butterfly, definitely a candidate for siring the F2s:

























here is the rosetail red blue dragon, most finnage in the spawn, unfortunately he has mild imperfections in the scaling of the left side of his body:

















and here is the best red blue dragon butterfly so far, he is practically the perfect HM:


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## Clemsons2k (May 31, 2009)

Beautiful range of colors!


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## Duck5003 (Oct 1, 2012)

Awesome spawn and awesome pictures!! Makes me want to start breeding bettas again, they sure are a fun fish  Fantastic job!


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## ADJAquariums (Jul 5, 2012)

So far picture 5 is by far my favorite one I've seen! looking good! as always


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

i like the light bodied one in pic 10


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## Kimfishepet (Jan 2, 2013)

Is the male to female ratio about 1:1, or something different?


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## Chrisinator (Jun 5, 2008)

Soo many colors!!


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

Clemsons2k said:


> Beautiful range of colors!


thanks. i was surprised by just how much. pleasantly surprised - variation makes it easier to sell off a spawn. its simple supply and demand, you want to sell a hundred identicle fish its not as easy as 20 of 5 different types.



Duck5003 said:


> Awesome spawn and awesome pictures!! Makes me want to start breeding bettas again, they sure are a fun fish  Fantastic job!


thank you.
they are great fish. one of my first fish was a blue veiltail from a LFS, and i loved bettas ever since.



ADJAquariums said:


> So far picture 5 is by far my favorite one I've seen! looking good! as always


he is a nice one. he would be jarred about now, if i had room/time. just 1 more week til i can jar, and then ill jar most of them.



wicca27 said:


> i like the light bodied one in pic 10


he is a good looking fish.
he is darkbodied though - just he has a very heavy dragon scaling that is light. a light bodied fish would look more transparent and pinkish. 



Kimfishepet said:


> Is the male to female ratio about 1:1, or something different?


hard to say. never counted. 
interestingly, there is some evidence that you can manipulate the ratios by changing the age of the parents. an older male to a younger female produces more females than males, and vice versa. but i didnt read the actual study, only heard about it. so i dont know what the sample sizes were etc.



Chrisinator said:


> Soo many colors!!


yes. 
reds and yellows.
light bodies and dark bodies.
blues of 2 types: royal blue and green/turquoise. 
and the blues are affected by dragon scaling - the heavier the scaling the more pronounced the blues.
so thats a lot of combinations...


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

these are getting really big - and rowdy. good thing ill be jarring most of them this week.


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## ADJAquariums (Jul 5, 2012)

Gosh I love the ivory colors soooooooo much! can't wait until you start to sell! I want one!


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

so pretty


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## Clemsons2k (May 31, 2009)

That first guy is a beauty.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

> Gosh I love the ivory colors soooooooo much! can't wait until you start to sell! I want one!


ivory? do you mean the light-bodied mustard gas, that look a pale creamy pastel color? or do you mean the dragonscales whose scales are a lightish teal?
not much longer now. i suspect ill have the first few put up for sale in 2 weeks or so.



> so pretty


thank you



> That first guy is a beauty.


yes he is. its mostly down to him and 2 other males for who will be the breeder. ill keep 2 out of those 3 males (one as backup), and 1 or 2 females (also just backups). then the "star male" will be bred to the "star female" of the spawn im about to do. 
why that order? convenience. the male should be slightly larger than the female, of he will have a lot of trouble during the embrace, and the eggs may go unfertilized. it would be a lot more troublesome to get a male to outgrow a fish older than him in a timely fashion. but if i use a male from the first spawn, then i can breed as soon as the female is sexually mature, or wait until im ready (if im busy at the moment) - no pressure. anybody out there planning on breeding, take note of accounting for things like this when you plan your spawns.


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## keithy (Jun 8, 2010)

@[email protected] said:


> anybody out there planning on breeding, take note of accounting for things like this when you plan your spawns.


Great tips Marko. 

I like the entire spawn. The coloration looks great!


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

They turned out beautiful.


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

@[email protected] said:


> ivory? do you mean the light-bodied mustard gas, that look a pale creamy pastel color?


yep those i love those lol


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## h4n (Jan 4, 2006)

Wow I haven't check them out in a week or so. They grown a lot.

I want one!!! I'll be keeping my eye for your fs thread 

-Sent from my Samsung Note, a "Phablet"


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

keithy said:


> Great tips Marko.
> 
> I like the entire spawn. The coloration looks great!


thank you



mosspearl said:


> They turned out beautiful.


thank you.



wicca27 said:


> yep those i love those lol


gotcha. yeah they are pretty. and they are all going to market  (cuz i wanna work with dark-bodied dragons).



h4n said:


> Wow I haven't check them out in a week or so. They grown a lot.
> 
> I want one!!! I'll be keeping my eye for your fs thread
> 
> -Sent from my Samsung Note, a "Phablet"


2 weeks or so.


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## h4n (Jan 4, 2006)

I can't wait!

-Sent from my Samsung Note, a "Phablet"


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## Kitsune_Gem (Apr 10, 2012)

h4n said:


> I can't wait!
> 
> -Sent from my Samsung Note, a "Phablet"



Urg neither can I!! Hahah!


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## Meganne (Sep 3, 2012)

just found this thread, wonderful work you have going on here. hope you will give a heads up here when you post your sale thread.
how much will you be asking for them?


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

well drat looks like no betta for me. getting ready to move and tanks are comming down not going up.


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## Platy_lover21 (Feb 11, 2012)

the blue and pink one looks exactly like my Ziggy Stardust #2


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

Meganne said:


> just found this thread, wonderful work you have going on here. hope you will give a heads up here when you post your sale thread.
> how much will you be asking for them?


thanks.
depends on the individual fish. they will be sold as WYSIWYG. im thinking most males will be around $15-$20. females a little less. 



wicca27 said:


> well drat looks like no betta for me. getting ready to move and tanks are comming down not going up.


im sorry.
depending on when you move, you may be able to get one then. ill be doing another spawn in few weeks. 3 months after that, ill have more fish available.


just got back home from my college apartment for the summer. moved all the fish. the females and a few small males are in the 10 gal, and i took the opportunity to jar 12 males. i need another tub to jar the rest, ill hopefully pick it up tomorrow. all the little guys are doing fine after the move. they ate, and the males are flaring at each other through the jars. 
took hours to bag them all individually. i still dont know exactly how many i have because i forgot to count. lol
acclimating the females wasnt bad. i brought a gallon of the tanks water from college, and put that in, and then just dumped the females in that from the bags. then i used my python to slowly fill it up with the new water over the course of an hour. much better than acclimating all those bags individually.
the males i didnt drip acclimate. i could only do 2 at a time, and that would take 6 hours (one hour each, two at a time, 12 jars). i just put them in jars with the water from the bags, and then later filled them halfway, then in a half hour filled them up. they took it well.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

doing a WC on the males and saw a lot of bubblenests


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

wow didnt know they made nest so young.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

yeah the males arent full grown, but they are likely sexually mature. meaning they could breed, if they were large enough to wrap around a sexually mature female (which they arent, lol).


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

my short tail male has never made a bubble nest. and ive had him over a year now and not sure how old he was when i got him.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

took some pics of the ready-to-sell males to start selling em. still need to take pics of the females tomorrow, and decide which ones i sell on auction (aquabid) vs just as a sale. and some of these im also keeping. 
but here are the pics i got so far:

MR06:









MR05:

















MY04:

















MR04:









MY03:

















MR03:









MR02:









MR01:

































MY02:

















MY01:


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## mosspearl (Jan 30, 2013)

They're gorgeous.  What would you call the 12th from the bottom (MR02)? I'm amazed at the range of colors you got.


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## Kitsune_Gem (Apr 10, 2012)

I love MR01's tail! It looks so much fluffier than what I'm used to seeing! MY01 is just amazing~ PSSSH They are all amazing!


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## lullafishi (Dec 13, 2012)

Such beauties! Can't wait to see more.


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## ADJAquariums (Jul 5, 2012)

MY01 is fantastic! that is one beautiful fish!


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

mosspearl said:


> They're gorgeous.  What would you call the 12th from the bottom (MR02)? I'm amazed at the range of colors you got.


thank you.
you could use a lot of terms to describe him: red blue butterfly halfmoon, or red blue triband halfmoon would be the two best ways.



Kitsune_Gem said:


> I love MR01's tail! It looks so much fluffier than what I'm used to seeing! MY01 is just amazing~ PSSSH They are all amazing!


yep. he is an extreme OHM, but without any of the X-factor problems often associated. very nice fish. a feathertail.
MY01 is my favorite. im hoping to get a spawn out of him in a few months, to a halfsister of his.



lullafishi said:


> Such beauties! Can't wait to see more.


thanks. pics of females below. 



ADJAquariums said:


> MY01 is fantastic! that is one beautiful fish!


yup. thats why i want him to father a spawn.


here are the first few girls:
FY01:

























FY02:

















FY03:

















FR01:

















FY04:










also, i put up a FS thread.


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

beautiful fish thats for sure


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## Duck5003 (Oct 1, 2012)

Absolutely beautiful, all of them. Those females are *AMAZING!!!*  
Thank you again for taking the time to post all these online, truly awesome fish. Really made my morning seeing this update before starting work!


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## hillmom (Mar 29, 2013)

Well I had to go through the whole thread and see all the beautiful fish! Makes me want one.... That means new a tank! 

The M


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## ADJAquariums (Jul 5, 2012)

Whoever picked up that last female is lucky, looks like a good one!


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## lamiskool (Jul 1, 2011)

man those are some beautiful fish!


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## Clemsons2k (May 31, 2009)

Quite the range of colors on that spawn. All very beautiful fish!


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

thanks for the compliments everyone. just updated the FS thread with more fish. here is the eyecandy without the prices:

MY08-

















MY09-

















MY10-

























MY11-

















MR07-

















FY05-

























FY06-









FY07-


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## iLOVEnanos (Jun 6, 2013)

Gorgeous! Love that FY05 female!


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

thank you.


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## jczz1232 (May 8, 2008)

Mark sent you a pm let me know what you have left for sale please.

Thanks


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