# higher lights for me?



## baz (Jun 28, 2007)

What's your budget?

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+11418&pcatid=11418

Th 30" 65watt would give you 2.25 wpg only you'd have to replace the bulb. But it does come w/ a moonlight.


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## Left C (Nov 15, 2003)

I'd get an All-Glass Black Pine Canopy. It has two 3" slabs that flip up together and one solid mounted 3" slab in the back.

Then I'd install a 24" 2x24w *Ready Fit™ T5 DIY Kit* or a 24" 2x24w *T5 Retro-Fit Kit*.
Then I'd purchase either:
2 24" 24w *T5 Midday 6000K Powerchrome Bulbs* or
1 24" 24w *T5 Midday 6000K Powerchrome Bulb* and 1 24" 24w *T5 Aquaflora Powerchrome Bulb*


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## baz (Jun 28, 2007)

This should fit in the middle of the first two choices in the terms of cost. I believe you can request different bulbs - http://www.catalinaaquarium.com/product_info.php?cPath=71_136&products_id=1413


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## Yassmeena (Jun 29, 2008)

baz said:


> This should fit in the middle of the first two choices in the terms of cost. I believe you can request different bulbs - http://www.catalinaaquarium.com/product_info.php?cPath=71_136&products_id=1413


Thanks, but this puts me right back where I started - with only 48 watts.


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## Yassmeena (Jun 29, 2008)

baz said:


> What's your budget?
> 
> http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+11418&pcatid=11418
> 
> Th 30" 65watt would give you 2.25 wpg only you'd have to replace the bulb. But it does come w/ a moonlight.


I'd like to stay under $100 if possible.

This seems like a good choice, only the acintic bulb's not right, as you said. What kind of bulb would be the best substitute? 

Sorry - totally new to this thing!


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## Yassmeena (Jun 29, 2008)

Left C said:


> I'd get an All-Glass Black Pine Canopy. It has two 3" slabs that flip up together and one solid mounted 3" slab in the back.
> 
> Then I'd install a 24" 2x24w *Ready Fit™ T5 DIY Kit* or a 24" 2x24w *T5 Retro-Fit Kit*.
> Then I'd purchase either:
> ...


Well, I agree that the canopy is nice. But this also puts me back where I started with only 48 watts.


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## Yassmeena (Jun 29, 2008)

Hmm... another option is to get this light in the 24 inch, 75 watt:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+10099+3818&pcatid=3818

It would put me at 2.56 wpg.

Problem: I have no idea what fixture would fit it! Any advice here?


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## Left C (Nov 15, 2003)

Yassmeena said:


> Hmm... another option is to get this light in the 24 inch, 75 watt:
> 
> http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+10099+3818&pcatid=3818
> 
> ...


You would have to purchase a powerful ballast plus the fixture.


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## Left C (Nov 15, 2003)

Yassmeena said:


> Well, I agree that the canopy is nice. But this also puts me back where I started with only 48 watts.


What is the lighting fixture that you have now?

If your 24w bulbs are not 24w HO T5's with individual reflectors, this is the way to go. You can easily add another single DIY kit with another HO T5 and individual reflector on that canopy.

Another option is to have a *canopy* with either an *AHSupply* 1x55w kit or a 2x55w kit with at least one or even two *GE 9325K* bulbs.

This *link* shows what the 9325K bulbs look like.


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## Yassmeena (Jun 29, 2008)

Left C said:


> What is the lighting fixture that you have now?
> 
> If your 24w bulbs are not 24w HO T5's with individual reflectors, this is the way to go. You can easily add another single DIY kit with another HO T5 and individual reflector on that canopy.
> 
> ...


I have a nova extreme t5 HO, 2X24 watts. 

hmmm......


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## Yassmeena (Jun 29, 2008)

Left C said:


> You would have to purchase a powerful ballast plus the fixture.


And where can I get such items? What specifications would they have to fit?


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## Left C (Nov 15, 2003)

Yassmeena said:


> And where can I get such items? What specifications would they have to fit?


There's a 2x75w VHO kit on sale and you would need a canopy for it. Either of the canopies that I mentioned would work. The All-Glass canopy that I mentioned was $60 from my LFS. You would have to buy the bulbs separately too.

This is the kit: CD-880130 24" 2-75W $179.99 $143.99 
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+10099+3796&pcatid=3796

This will put you well over your $100 limit.

Here's a $37 FW 2x18w NO T5 fixture that you could add with what your Nova Extreme. That would give you a total of 84w or 2.9 wpg.
http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsU...5/cl0/coralifefwt5aqualightdoublestriplight30

It's very thin and it would fit on top of the tank along with your other fixture, like I mentioned. Here's some more info about it. Just open the file for the 30" one for a bigger picture. http://www.oceanicsystems.com/products/freshwater-aqualight-t5-series---double-linear-strip.php


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## Yassmeena (Jun 29, 2008)

Left C said:


> There's a 2x75w VHO kit on sale and you would need a canopy for it. Either of the canopies that I mentioned would work. The All-Glass canopy that I mentioned was $60 from my LFS. You would have to buy the bulbs separately too.
> 
> This is the kit: CD-880130 24" 2-75W $179.99 $143.99
> http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+10099+3796&pcatid=3796
> ...


Hmmm it's not possible then to find a fixture with a single 75 watt bulb and a lunar light?

Thanks for all your great help LeftC! :thumbsup:


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## Left C (Nov 15, 2003)

You could build one using a single bulb 24" shop light. Purchase the bulb and get a ballast that will run a 75w bulb.

Those VHO T12 bulbs are bright, but they are old technology.


I'm a little confused as to what you really want to accomplish. Are you wanting to eliminate your 2x24w Nova and go to something different or are you wanting to add a fixture to your present one to get the wattage that you need.

Here is your original post:


Yassmeena said:


> I have a 30 inch, 29 gallon w/ 2- 24W lights, which puts me at 1.7 wpg.
> 
> I am thinking of changing my lights to brighter lights, like 2.5 wpg. can anyone suggest a good fixture?


There's many people that use the AHSupply kits. The reflectors are so good that with a single 55w bulb kit, even though it works out to 1.9 wpg, really pushes you near or maybe past 2.5 wpg.


Left C said:


> Another option is to have a *canopy* with either an *AHSupply* 1x55w kit or a 2x55w kit with at least one or even two *GE 9325K* bulbs.
> 
> This *link* shows what the 9325K bulbs look like.


Then I suggested a $37 plus shipping option that will work. It's a little less than half of your $100 limit and it gives you 2.9 wpg. Here it is:


Left C said:


> ... Here's a $37 FW 2x18w NO T5 fixture that you could add with what your Nova Extreme. That would give you a total of 84w or 2.9 wpg.
> http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsU...5/cl0/coralifefwt5aqualightdoublestriplight30
> 
> It's very thin and it would fit on top of the tank along with your other fixture, like I mentioned. Here's some more info about it. Just open the file for the 30" one for a bigger picture. http://www.oceanicsystems.com/products/freshwater-aqualight-t5-series---double-linear-strip.php


Good luck with any decision that you make.


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## Yassmeena (Jun 29, 2008)

"The reflectors are so good that with a single 55w bulb kit, even though it works out to 1.9 wpg, really pushes you near or maybe past 2.5 wpg."

Well then that is what I will do. My ultimate goal is increase my wpg to ~2.5.

I will call AH Supply and get more details.

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge!


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## Left C (Nov 15, 2003)

Good deal!

The links that I gave you let you look at the products.

Kim at AHSupply is great to work with and many people recommend his kits. 

I'd get the kit from him and I'd get the flip up top All-Glass Canopies. AHSupply's canopies are cheaper and work OK, but they do not have the flip up top feature.

I highly recommend the 9325K bulb that I mentioned. I'm using them right now and these are the best PC's that I've ever used. The $14.20 price is a few dollars cheaper than the bulbs at AHSupply. The last time that I ordered from the link that I gave you was for 2 bulbs and the shipping was between $5 and $7. I don't remember exactly what it was now.

EDIT: This link mentions AHSupply: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/69490-ah-supply-rave.html


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## Yassmeena (Jun 29, 2008)

Left C said:


> Good deal!
> 
> The links that I gave you let you look at the products.
> 
> ...


You read my mind - I was wondering about the flip-top feature!

Thanks a million!


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## Yassmeena (Jun 29, 2008)

Hmmm.... okay I found this other item. It's a 2x40 watt, and I would ask them to change the actinic blue to a FW pink. Price wise is pretty similar, but this product has the advantage of lunar lighting, which AH supply doesn't.

http://www.aquariumguys.com/dualsatellite1.html

How important is lunar lighting? Is it the tipping factor that ultimately makes this light the most bang for my buck?


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## Left C (Nov 15, 2003)

Yassmeena said:


> Hmmm.... okay I found this other item. It's a 2x40 watt, and I would ask them to change the actinic blue to a FW pink. Price wise is pretty similar, but this product has the advantage of lunar lighting, which AH supply doesn't.
> 
> http://www.aquariumguys.com/dualsatellite1.html
> 
> How important is lunar lighting? Is it the tipping factor that ultimately makes this light the most bang for my buck?


You don't want to get that 20" fixture for a 30" aquarium. 

I like the lunar lights. There's blue ones and white ones. I have both. My white ones are in Current Orbit fixtures. My blue ones are on my Coralife fixtures.

I'll show you what's available.
You don't want to get that 20" fixture for a 30" aquarium. 

I like the lunar lights. There's blue ones and white ones. I have both. My white ones are in Current Orbit fixtures. My blue ones are on my Coralife fixtures.

I'll show you what's available.
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+10704+12760&pcatid=12760
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+10704+12110&pcatid=12110
http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/cat/infoL3/22948/category.web


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## thefishmanlives (May 20, 2008)

why anyone here would suggest you switch to a PC from a t5ho is beyond me. I love ah supply but no sense at all going to PC at this point. Add another Current t5ho if you can fit it or go with one of the coralife 30" 18x2 NO t5 fixtures to go with yours, its only 3" wide and will defintely fit. You will have plenty of light then to grow any high light plant. and please remember WPG does not apply all the time. t5ho light is more powerful watt for watt then PC. 4x24 t5ho is as powerful or more then PC 65x2 even with the currents shotty reflectors. Add on to what you got, dont drop the t5s for PC. trust me. if you dont believe me check out bigstick120's 29 gallon on here. He has a 65x1 coralife PC (which uses poor reflectors) + a coralife 18x2 NO t5 fixture and grows awesome high light plants. If this doesnt solve your problem, your issues are elswhere. Im assuming your using pressurized co2 + a fert routine with NPK + micros and iron, correct?

:icon_roll


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## Left C (Nov 15, 2003)

thefishmanlives said:


> why anyone here would suggest you switch to a PC from a t5ho is beyond me. I love ah supply but no sense at all going to PC at this point. Add another Current t5ho if you can fit it or go with one of the coralife 30" 18x2 NO t5 fixtures to go with yours, its only 3" wide and will defintely fit. You will have plenty of light then to grow any high light plant. and please remember WPG does not apply all the time. t5ho light is more powerful watt for watt then PC. 4x24 t5ho is as powerful or more then PC 65x2 even with the currents shotty reflectors. Add on to what you got, dont drop the t5s for PC. trust me. if you dont believe me check out bigstick120's 29 gallon on here. He has a 65x1 coralife PC (which uses poor reflectors) + a coralife 18x2 NO t5 fixture and grows awesome high light plants. If this doesnt solve your problem, your issues are elswhere. Im assuming your using pressurized co2 + a fert routine with NPK + micros and iron, correct?
> 
> :icon_roll


In post #13 I suggested to the OP to add the Coralife 2x18w NO T5 fixture to the Nova that is already there. This wasn't appealing for some reason. I have no idea why it wasn't. Then I offered alternatives.

This is what I said:


Left C said:


> Here's a $37 FW 2x18w NO T5 fixture that you could add with what your Nova Extreme. That would give you a total of 84w or 2.9 wpg.
> http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS...lestriplight30
> 
> It's very thin and it would fit on top of the tank along with your other fixture, like I mentioned. Here's some more info about it. Just open the file for the 30" one for a bigger picture. http://www.oceanicsystems.com/produc...near-strip.php


:icon_evil


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## Yassmeena (Jun 29, 2008)

thefishmanlives said:


> why anyone here would suggest you switch to a PC from a t5ho is beyond me. I love ah supply but no sense at all going to PC at this point. Add another Current t5ho if you can fit it or go with one of the coralife 30" 18x2 NO t5 fixtures to go with yours, its only 3" wide and will defintely fit. You will have plenty of light then to grow any high light plant. and please remember WPG does not apply all the time. t5ho light is more powerful watt for watt then PC. 4x24 t5ho is as powerful or more then PC 65x2 even with the currents shotty reflectors. Add on to what you got, dont drop the t5s for PC. trust me. if you dont believe me check out bigstick120's 29 gallon on here. He has a 65x1 coralife PC (which uses poor reflectors) + a coralife 18x2 NO t5 fixture and grows awesome high light plants. If this doesnt solve your problem, your issues are elswhere. Im assuming your using pressurized co2 + a fert routine with NPK + micros and iron, correct?
> 
> :icon_roll


Hi fishman,

Actually, LeftC has been extremely helpful in helping me figure my lighting delimma out. I unfortunately have been debating between many options, and LeftC has been kindly filling in my knnowledge gaps to help me make an educated decision. 

I do not have a pressurized CO2 system. I use flourish and excel.


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## Yassmeena (Jun 29, 2008)

Left C said:


> In post #13 I suggested to the OP to add the Coralife 2x18w NO T5 fixture to the Nova that is already there. This wasn't appealing for some reason. I have no idea why it wasn't. Then I offered alternatives.
> 
> This is what I said:
> :icon_evil


Hi LeftC,

Don't mind the other guy. 

The reason I was hesitant about the 2x18 watts is:

1 - I do not know if this will be to much light. This will ultimately be a discus tank. So for that reason, plus for budget and time constraints, I will not get a CO2 system. I am worried that 2.9 wpg is too high without CO2 (algae).

2 - The other very minor reason is I do not know if the electric cord protrudes from the narrow edge or the long edge of the light. If it protrudes from the narrow edge, no problem getting it lined up with my nova lights. But if its on the long edge, like that of my nova, the cord will have to be positioned poking out from the frontview of the tank in order for the two non-corded edges of the lights to meet. Like I said, its kinda minor. If problem #1 is a non-issue, then I can call the manufacturer to find out about #2. 

3 - the canopy looks a little nicer, but if the lights are better for the plants, I think better looking plants do more for the tank than a canopy would!

I found a 30" 1x18 watt T5. If I mount this I will be at 2.27 wpg. 

So my options are:

a - add the 2x18 watt T5 for a total of 2.9 wpg
b - add the 1x18 watt t5 for a total of 2.27 wpg
c - replace my system with an AH supply 1x55 watt retrofit with all-glass canopy

Considering there is no CO2, and there will not be CO2, which one would you suggest?


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## Left C (Nov 15, 2003)

All of those lighting increases will work much better with CO2.

Which set of bulbs are in your Nova?

- 1-20 W 10,000°K & 1-20 W 460 nm actinic









or

1-24 W 10,000°K & 1-24 W Freshwater


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## Yassmeena (Jun 29, 2008)

Left C said:


> All of those lighting increases will work much better with CO2.
> 
> Which set of bulbs are in your Nova?
> 
> ...


TheFW set up.

I know co2 would be optimal, but i will be starting dental school in acouple weeks and i don't want to increase my expenses or maintenance. plus - i don't think it's the best for the discus i plan to keep.


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## Left C (Nov 15, 2003)

I typed you a long response three times to your question last night and Internet Explorer kept cutting off. I got frustrated and typed a simple message and I went to bed. I trying to get my bookmarks and favorites saved now on firefox and to heck with IE. 

Darn .... It just did it again.










That fixture that you have should be fine for Discus and no CO2.

If you are dead set against removing that fixture and you want something that is easily doable for ~ $100, here’s something that I really like.

You can get a 30” 1x65w Freshwater Coralife Aqualight. Replace the stock 6700K bulb with the 55w 9325K bulb that I mentioned. Also order the Coralife adjustable (flip-up) legs. These legs mount firmly to the fixture and the aquarium and allow you to flip the lights straight up a little past 90° so that you can easily work in the aquarium. I have this exact same setup on a 24” aquarium and I love it. I do have CO2, but I believe that Excel will work for you. The Aqualight's reflector doesn't even compare with the AHSupply reflector and you will get less light into the tank and Excel should be fine.

That 9325K bulb really brings out the colors in the aquarium. It grows plants very well. It doesn’t seem to lead to algae issues either. It’s a terrific bulb!

Here’s a picture of what the fixture and legs look like.










Here’s the $60 30” Freshwater Aqualight: http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsU...oralifefreshwateraqualightdeluxesingle30strip

$13.50 Adjustable (flip-up) legs: http://www.bigalsonline.com/StoreCa...nc3684-def-USD-18362##0##4&query=legs&offset=

$14.20 55w 9325K bulb: http://lightbulbsdirect.com/Merchan...=PROD&Store_Code=001&Product_Code=F55BX-AR-FS


That’s $87.70 plus shipping!


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## Yassmeena (Jun 29, 2008)

Left C said:


> I typed you a long response three times to your question last night and Internet Explorer kept cutting off. I got frustrated and typed a simple message and I went to bed. I trying to get my bookmarks and favorites saved now on firefox and to heck with IE.
> 
> Darn .... It just did it again.
> 
> ...


 
I have heard other positive remarks about that bulb.

I am a little confused though about what you think the BEST option for me is. I am not deadset on removing my fixture. Based on my options below, could you kinda rank them in order of best to worst with the ultimate goal being to maximize plant growth and health while keeping algae down?

- keep my nove extreme as is
- keep my nova, add a 1x18 watt T5
- keep my nova extreme, add a 2x 18 watt T5
- AH supply 1x55 watt retrofit with canopy
- 30" corallife with lunar light, substitute the 65W with a 9325k from GE

Thanks again, really. :smile:


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## Left C (Nov 15, 2003)

The limiting factor is your refusal to try CO2 whether it is DIY or pressurized and to stick with Excel only.

This comes from: http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/FlourishExcel_faq.html
*Q:* Is Flourish Excel a replacement for CO2 in a planted aquarium?
*A:* Yes and no. It provides the same benefit as CO2, i.e. it provides the plants with a source of carbon for growth just as CO2 provides them with carbon. However CO2 by itself will give you quantitatively more growth than Excel by itself, although Excel does provide a substantial amount in comparison. If CO2 is a 10, Excel is a 6-7. Using both together provides additional benefit. One of the advantages of the Excel is no up front equipment costs and complexity of valves, hoses and regulators, etc. 


Algae issues depend greatly on the maintenance your aquarium


These two will work well. Obviously keeping your Nova is the cheapest. 

These apply to both fixtures:
Plant growth should be moderate. 
*** - I suppose that this means one of the optional lunar lights.
- keep my Nova extreme as is
- 30" Coralife with _lunar light_***, substitute the 65W with a 9325k from GE _Get the flip up legs_.


You will need CO2. DIY + Excel will work. Pressurized, much better.
Improved plant growth.
- keep my nova extreme, add a 2x 18 watt T5
- AH supply 1x55 watt retrofit with canopy


I have no idea what this is.
- keep my nova, add a 1x18 watt T5


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## Yassmeena (Jun 29, 2008)

"I have no idea what this is.
- keep my nova, add a 1x18 watt T5"

Oh, this is a product I found. It is essentially the same design as the 2X18 watt T5 by coralife, except that it has 1 bulb instead of two. In fact I beleive it is made by the same company.

Ok - So I will ponder all this, as well as read up a little on DIY CO2. If it will not require more effort from me to maintain it and is cost-efficient, then perhaps I'll give it a go.

Thanks again - you seem like you really know what you're doing here!


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## Left C (Nov 15, 2003)

Aquariums containing fish and plants have many, many variables.

It's sometimes hard to say that A + (B² x C) - (D ÷ E) = F ... You know what I'm saying, right?


PS: If I were you, ... 
- I'd keep my stock lighting.
- Start with DIY CO2 and also add Excel.
- Be sure to get a good grip on your nutrients. Don't let anything bottom out or you will surely get algae.
- After you get a very good grip on working with the above, then feel free to try whatever you want to do.
- Going to pressurized CO2 is one of the very best things that you can do if you decide that you want higher light levels ... Don't forget the nutrients.
- If you have $35 to $50 plus the shipping to spare, here’s some really great deals on extremely good Victor dual stage regulators. I have 5 of them.
http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/mrmotorcycles_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

Left C said:


> Going to pressurized CO2 is one of the very best things that you can do if you decide that you want higher light levels ... Don't forget the nutrients.


Even if you don't change your lighting, your tank would probably still benefit from CO2. Pressurized is the way to go. It is hassle free, and you can't beat the results. If you asked peple on this board what their favorite piece of equipment would be, most of the people with pressurized systems would probably say thier CO2 setups.


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## Yassmeena (Jun 29, 2008)

So before I even begin to consider CO2, something a guy at my LFS said comes to mind. He said that in my 29 gallon, my aquaclear 50 filter (which works for aquariums 20 - 50 gallons) would just filter all the CO2 out, and for this reason CO2 is not an option for me.

Is this valid?


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

Yassmeena said:


> So before I even begin to consider CO2, something a guy at my LFS said comes to mind. He said that in my 29 gallon, my aquaclear 50 filter (which works for aquariums 20 - 50 gallons) would just filter all the CO2 out, and for this reason CO2 is not an option for me.
> 
> Is this valid?


No.

Good CO2 levels would be harder to achieve, but not impossible. The CO2 would be outgassed/degassed because of the HOB filter. I used to be skeptical of this train of thought, but I have been down the road and experienced it first hand. CO2 levels are eaiser to maintain with a canister filter than a HOB filter such as yours.

Ultimately, you would probably want to go with a canister filter at some point. They work better for planted tanks because they don't outgass the CO2, they provide better flow and filtration, and they also limit evaporation a little better. I too have a 29 gallon tank, and I have a Filstar XP2 filter wich is perfect for that size tank (heavily planted). 

I wouldn't necessarily rush out and buy a new filter if I went with pressurized CO2, but I would probably plan for it at sometime in the future. The results of adding both pieces of equipment would astound you.


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## Yassmeena (Jun 29, 2008)

BiscuitSlayer said:


> No.
> 
> Good CO2 levels would be harder to achieve, but not impossible. The CO2 would be outgassed/degassed because of the HOB filter. I used to be skeptical of this train of thought, but I have been down the road and experienced it first hand. CO2 levels are eaiser to maintain with a canister filter than a HOB filter such as yours.
> 
> ...


Well, if I do add the canister filter and either DIY CO2 or pressurized, then dosing with flourish + excel would no longer be sufficient for fertilizers, correct? I would need to introduce other forms of nutrients?


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

Yassmeena said:


> Well, if I do add the canister filter and either DIY CO2 or pressurized, then dosing with flourish + excel would no longer be sufficient for fertilizers, correct? I would need to introduce other forms of nutrients?


I hate to say it, but it probably depends on several different factors. Light is the driving factor behind plant growth. As your light increases, the plants needs increase as well. 

The main point of this thread was that you wanted to increase your lighting. I read the entire thread over again, and I didn't see where anyone asked you why you wanted to increase the lighting.

Why do you want to increase your lighting?


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## Yassmeena (Jun 29, 2008)

BiscuitSlayer said:


> I hate to say it, but it probably depends on several different factors. Light is the driving factor behind plant growth. As your light increases, the plants needs increase as well.
> 
> The main point of this thread was that you wanted to increase your lighting. I read the entire thread over again, and I didn't see where anyone asked you why you wanted to increase the lighting.
> 
> Why do you want to increase your lighting?


well, I am at 1.6 wpg now. That is low-light as I understand it. As I see it, higher lights (say 2.3 - 2.5 wpg) equates to greater plant growth, better color and form expression and less restrictions on the types of plants that will be able to survive/thrive in my tank.

Does that logic seem legit?


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## Left C (Nov 15, 2003)

EDIT: I see that there have been several posts since I starting writing this responce. I was trying to watch a movie and type too.

Biscuitslayer is very right about the cannister filter. That's the way to go.

These mods that I mentioned that I did to my AC 70 is used with pressurized CO2. 



Yassmeena said:


> So before I even begin to consider CO2, something a guy at my LFS said comes to mind. He said that in my 29 gallon, my AquaClear 50 filter (which works for aquariums 20 - 50 gallons) would just filter all the CO2 out, and for this reason CO2 is not an option for me.
> 
> Is this valid?


Nope.

I have an AC 70 that I use for my CO2 diffuser on one aquarium. It works very well and has been for years.

I use an airline elbow that one end is pushed in between one of the slits in the intake tube strainer so that it points upward. The CO2 tubing is attached to the other end. The tubing is on the outside of the instake strainer.

A 4 pack of * elbows * is 99¢ .









Larger picture of elbow.










I have made a few modifications to my AC 70. These are:
- This is a part that I modified. On the left inside section of the filter case is the grey piece of plastic that the intake U-tube rests on. You are able to control the flow rate by simply turning the U-tube. Turning it to the left for more flow and to the right for less flow. On this grey piece of plastic is a small "nub" or "stop" that keeps the U-tube from going all the way to the right. I removed this "nub" and the filter is able to flow less for less surface movement. This mod still allows you to have full power if you need it. This modification just allows for a wider range of the flow rate.

- I use two sponge blocks with a  *100 mL bag*  of *Purigen* on top of the sponges and the bio bag rests on top of the Purigen to hold it in place.

- You can slow down the turbulence some more by placing a piece of filter material, like the blue bonded filter material or the foam sheet of filter material that is used for window A/C units, over the spillway. Cut it wide enough the whole spillway is covered and cut it long enough so that you can tuck one end in so that the sponge will hold it in place and long enough so that the other end hangs over the spillway by and inch or two. This piece that you cut will be shaped like a rectangle.

- When you do these mods and add DIY CO2, you want a fairly calm surface. Adjust the flow so that the fish are comfortable and not gasping at the surface.

- Always keep your water level as high as you can. This will help too.

I’m getting sleepy and it seems like I’m babbling a bit.

Do these instructions make sense to you?

Edit: Slowing the flow rate is unnecessary if you use pressurized CO2. Slowing the rate mods are mainly if you are using DIY CO2.


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

Yassmeena said:


> well, I am at 1.6 wpg now. That is low-light as I understand it. As I see it, higher lights (say 2.3 - 2.5 wpg) equates to greater plant growth, better color and form expression and less restrictions on the types of plants that will be able to survive/thrive in my tank.
> 
> Does that logic seem legit?


It does seem legit. The only problem I see is that your plants might require more with regards to a carbon source and macro nutrients with the addtition of more light. That is the main reason why some of us have also suggested considering injecting CO2 into your tank. It is also possible that with the addition of more light, you might need to dose macro ferts (NPK) into your tank.

I have seen many people that run a single AHSupply 55W kit over their tank with great success. Many of those people have CO2 injection of some kind though.

The other lighting options what you guys were talking about were, to me, a little different in nature. You were talking about adding smaller fixtures to complement your current lighting. To me, that is different than adding one larger fixture that has less overall wattage than the proposed combined wattage. Make sense?

Imagine adding 18W bulbs to your tank to acheive close to 2W per gallon. You would need between 3 bulbs (54W totalling 1.86W). If you were to add 1 55W AHSupply bulb, it would equal the 3 bulbs with regards to wattage, but the intensity is going to be higher because all of the power is running to the one bulb rather than 3 smaller bulbs. In my eyes, this is comparing apples to oranges. You might be able to get better light coverage in your tank with the three smaller bulbs, but the intensity isn't going to be as high.

It sounds to me, like you are considering medium lighting, so you would be teetering on the edge of low light and high light. If your growth is consistant with a higher light tank, you might wind up having do dose macro nutrients and going with some form of pressurized CO2.

Personally, if I were in your shoes I would keep my lighting the same and make plans to upgrade lighting in the future. I would save the money I was about to spend on the lighting for a pressurized system though.


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## Left C (Nov 15, 2003)

Yep. Keep your stock lighting.

Use the money that you were about to spend on lighting and get one of those Victor dual stage regulators that I mentioned as a starting piece for your CO2 system.


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## Yassmeena (Jun 29, 2008)

Left C said:


> EDIT: I see that there have been several posts since I starting writing this responce. I was trying to watch a movie and type too.
> 
> Biscuitslayer is very right about the cannister filter. That's the way to go.
> 
> ...


So far, they make sense in writing. Perhaps I will encounter some questions putting them into practice though.

My concern with this method is that I will ultimately be putting discus in this tank, and am worried about reducing the filter flow.

Just an update on the direction my thinking is heading... so it seems that I should introduce CO2 rather than more wpg of light. Obviously this leads to an entirely different set of issues about setting up the ideal CO2 system. It seems from my reading that a pressurized system is much more manageable and reliable than a DIY. Also, the DIY reactor seems like a good method for diffusion. However, I don't think a reactor will work with an HOB filter. At the same time considering that my HOB could be a good diffuser, I am nontheless worried that reduced filteration will harm my discus later down the road.

Well... there is one path I might consider. As I said, I will start dental school soon. I will most likely get the discus during my winter break in January. I could stick with my current filter and make mods you suggested for now, get a pressurized system going, then in January swap my HOB for a canister and build a DIY reactor. This will spread my expenses out over a longer time period.

Does it sound like a good plan?


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## Yassmeena (Jun 29, 2008)

BiscuitSlayer said:


> It does seem legit. The only problem I see is that your plants might require more with regards to a carbon source and macro nutrients with the addtition of more light. That is the main reason why some of us have also suggested considering injecting CO2 into your tank. It is also possible that with the addition of more light, you might need to dose macro ferts (NPK) into your tank.
> 
> I have seen many people that run a single AHSupply 55W kit over their tank with great success. Many of those people have CO2 injection of some kind though.
> 
> ...


Good questions, and good points!

You have convinced me my friend! I'll worry about lights later, and focus instead on CO2. But definately, this discussion on lights will not go to waste. I'm gonna bookmark this thread so that I can refer to it later when I eventually feel comfortable enough with my CO2 and nutrients to upgrade my lights.


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

Yassmeena said:


> So far, they make sense in writing. Perhaps I will encounter some questions putting them into practice though.
> 
> My concern with this method is that I will ultimately be putting discus in this tank, and am worried about reducing the filter flow.
> 
> ...


Sounds good to me, except for the discus. Are you planning on adding them to a 29 gallon tank? Bit too small IMO.


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## Yassmeena (Jun 29, 2008)

BiscuitSlayer said:


> Sounds good to me, except for the discus. Are you planning on adding them to a 29 gallon tank? Bit too small IMO.


Only 2 disucs.


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## Yassmeena (Jun 29, 2008)

Also, about my HOB compatability with a CO2 system...

Considering that reactors seem like great diffusers, perhaps I can use a pump with my reactor to suck water out of the tank and into the reactor, in place of feeding the reactor straight from the canister outflow. I can then feed the reactor output into the tank, feeding the tube perhaps deep into the bottom of the tank at the corner opposite the HOB. Do you think my HOB will still wipe out the CO2 this way?


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

LeftC had a post where he layed out how he implents CO2 with his HOB:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/lighting/69489-higher-lights-me-3.html#post643591

I wouldn't worry about a reactor until you get a canister filter (one day soon).


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## Yassmeena (Jun 29, 2008)

Left C said:


> Aquariums containing fish and plants have many, many variables.
> 
> It's sometimes hard to say that A + (B² x C) - (D ÷ E) = F ... You know what I'm saying, right?
> 
> ...


LeftC, I am excited to tell you - I bought the regulator!!! thanks - I definately would not have gotten such a great buy without you! roud:


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## Left C (Nov 15, 2003)

Yassmeena said:


> So far, they make sense in writing. Perhaps I will encounter some questions putting them into practice though.
> 
> *My concern with this method is that I will ultimately be putting discus in this tank, and am worried about reducing the filter flow.*
> Just an update on the direction my thinking is heading... so it seems that I should introduce CO2 rather than more wpg of light. Obviously this leads to an entirely different set of issues about setting up the ideal CO2 system. It seems from my reading that a pressurized system is much more manageable and reliable than a DIY. Also, the DIY reactor seems like a good method for diffusion. However, I don't think a reactor will work with an HOB filter. At the same time considering that my HOB could be a good diffuser, I am nonetheless worried that reduced filtration will harm my discus later down the road.
> ...


I sounds like a fine plan to me.

*"My concern with this method is that I will ultimately be putting discus in this tank, and am worried about reducing the filter flow."*

You do not need to reduce the flow if you have pressurized CO2. You can have still have good surface movement so that O2 is getting into the water. Just crank up the CO2 a bit to compensate, if needed.

I should of said this, but I was watching a movie and typing too. I'm terrible at multitasking. The reduced flow is really for DIY CO2.

You can also use the reduced flow mod for feeding time. The food will not get blown around as much.


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## Left C (Nov 15, 2003)

Yassmeena said:


> LeftC, I am excited to tell you - I bought the regulator!!! thanks - I definitely would not have gotten such a great buy without you! roud:


You will absolutely love that regulator.

The welding supply store owner told me that these regulators are worth $250 to $300 each.

I've installed a Clippard regulator and Ideal metering valve on one of mine. The Swagelok is another excellent metering valve that is a bit cheaper. I got mine and all the brass parts that I needed from: http://www.sumoregulator.com/

Orlando at http://www.greenleafaquariums.com/ offers a Fabco needle valve that work great too. He also has CO2 cylinders. He has 5# ones now, but he will have some 10# ones soon. Get the 10# (or even #15 or 20# cylinders). The reason that I say this is that the places that refill the CO2 cylinders charge basically the same price ( ~ $15 to $20 each) regardless of size. You can do the math. 

I built mine using Rex Grigg's instructions. If you don't want to do this, most likely Sumo and Green Leaf will build it for you.

Here's Rex's instructions: http://www.rexgrigg.com/regulator.htm

This is the non-hardening high pressure pipe dope that I used. It came from Lowe's.









PS: Did you notice my multicolored hyperlinks a few posts back? I picked up a new trick. It was post #38. ( < - These are not hyperlinks though.)


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## Yassmeena (Jun 29, 2008)

Left C said:


> You will absolutely love that regulator.
> 
> The welding supply store owner told me that these regulators are worth $250 to $300 each.
> 
> ...


I did notice - kudo's to you for going pro-poster! Maybe I will try and figure out how you did it just for fun! lol

Thanks again - and I will keep you posted as I move forward with this! :thumbsup:


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## Left C (Nov 15, 2003)

I just left you a bit of info at your CO2 thread. 



I hope that you got a chance to check out the CO2 links above post #49.



Suggestion .... let's keep your CO2 discussion at your CO2 thread from now on.


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## Yassmeena (Jun 29, 2008)

Left C said:


> I just left you a bit of info at your CO2 thread.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes - I think that is a good idea too. :thumbsup:


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