# Please critique my setup! New 12g long Iwagumi



## bikeny (Apr 29, 2010)

Hello Everyone! This is my first post, but I have been reading up here and elsewhere, and am in the planning stages of my first dedicated 'nature' aquarium. 

A little background on myself: I have been keeping aquariums for about 20 years, mostly cichlids and a 55 gallon soft coral reef that was up and running for about 10 years. I recently lost everything in my reef due to a power outage while I was away (inluding my favorite 12 year old GS Maroon clown:icon_cry. So I have decided to take a break from SW, and try my hand at a real planted aquarium. Up until now my FW tanks have concentrated on breeding cichlids, with plants being secondary, but they have done pretty well.

Anyway, on to my plan!

I ordered a Mr. Aqua rimless aquarium from Marine Depot(it's actually on the truck for delivery right now!) I really liked the look of the 12 gallon long tank and ordered it. For some reason, I like the look of long low tanks, and I think this tank will make a really nice show piece. I want to keep it as low tech and low maintanence as possible. I am seriously considering one of the new Marineland LED light fixtures. The biggest one is 36" long, the same length as the tank. For substrate I am planning to use ADA Power Sand Special and Aqua Soil Amazonia. The hardscape will just be some interesting rocks in a nice setup. For plants, I am thinking of only 3 species: HC (hemianthus callitrichoides) for a nice carpet, some Pygmy Chain Sword (Echinodorus tenellus) for some accents around the rocks, and something taller for the back corners, maybe Cryptocoryne balansae. Inhabitants would be some Amano shrimp, maybe a couple Ottos, and a small school of maybe White Clouds or Galaxy Danios, maybe 12 to 15.

I would like to set up the substrate and rocks, and then plant the HC and grow it emersed for a while to get it nice and full. Maybe add the chainsword toward the end of that process to get it going as well.

That actually brings up another question. Is it possible to set up the tank/substrate/HC and let it grow for while and them move the tank? I wonder how heavy the tank would be in that state? I ask because my plan is to put the tank in our family room, and I'm not sure my wife would appreciate looking at it in that state for a couple of months!

Next comes equipment, which I am trying to get to a minimum! I am planning no heater, no CO2, and no cover. Room temperature would be in the high 60s. I'm still on the fence about filtration. At the beggining, I would certainly have a filter of some sort, but I've been intriqued about going filterless lately. I am trying to keep the tank as uncluttered as possible. I really like the look/function of those Vortech pumps, but they are a little big/expensive for this setup.

Sorry for the really long first post, but I am just trying to get across what I envision for this tank. Please give me any comments, concerns, or criticism!

Thanks,
Mark


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Welcome to TPT!!

I know it can be done, but personally I wouldn't even try and set up a planted tank w/out good water movement. Especially not an iwagumi- I think that's just asking for algae. 

I'm going to recommend you look into glass lily pipes and a small canister filter if you want to minimize the appearance of equipment in your tank. Going this direction also will allow you to run an in-line heater; the 60s is really really low for most livestock, even "coldwater" fish lik WCMMs. CPDs need to be kept in at least the low 70s. That's definitely too low for Otos.

It should be fairly easy to move a tank this size with plants and substrate intact; what I've done is drain the tank down to the substrate and cover it with saran wrap to maintain the humidity for the plants. Then get a strong flat board to slide the tank onto and use that to support the tank as you carry it. Needs two people to carry. I've moved tanks up to my 46gal tank in size in the back seat of my car this way several times.

I'll have to check out that Marineland LED fixture, but last I heard those weren't adapted to supporting FW plant growth... been awhile since I looked at them though, so that may work.

If not, check out the Coralife T5NOs (NOT their new T5HOs), I've found those to be the perfect little fixtures for most low tech setups. Big Als carries them.


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## goddessjen (Mar 9, 2008)

Welcome to plantedtank. Your setup sounds like fun to me. I really love the tank you picked out and have been wanting one myself for a bit. The only thing I have to say is that I would be VERY VERY careful about moving it. Maybe if you set it up for your dry start on a nice ridgid board so that you could transfer it waterless on the board you might be ok. Even then I would still caution you. It is such a nice tank and it would really be a shame to break it. Maybe you could get the hard scape looking nice and keep your area neat and it won't look bad and that way you can just start it in the intended place.


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## Kilroy_1911 (Jan 27, 2010)

Sounds like a fun build. I think the previous posts' idea of using a board underneath to actually transfer the tank is about the only way to do it. Good luck!roud:


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## bikeny (Apr 29, 2010)

Thanks for the responses everyone. I like the idea of using board to move the tank, sounds like that would work.

lauralellbp, you are probably right about the filtration. I was looking into the lily pipes, but was having trouble finding a suitable small canister filter, any suggestions?

As for the heater, as I said, it will be room temperature, high 60s to low 70s, depending on time of year. I think the WCMM and the Amano shrimp would actually prefer those temps, both being cool water species. Not sure about the Otos, maybe I will skip those. But as you said, I could use an inline heater if I go with a canister, anthough it is another added expense and possible maintanence item.

Thanks for the lighting suggestion, I had not seen those, only the HO T5s. The double T5 NO would give me 42 watts for about $57. I could also use a single 36" T5 HO light, which is 39 watts, but not too many choices for those. I found one, GLO? brand, $90 online.

I really like the idea of LEDs though. The Marineland 36" fixture has 24 one watt high power LEDs, which should be more efficient the the T5. But, I have never seen them, so not sure if it will work. It is also about $125 online, but would run for years without bulb replacements.

Keep the suggestions coming!

Mark


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

If you put T5HO over this tank you'll need CO2. _Especially_ with it being an iwagumi; that will just be way too much light.

I've run a Rena XP1 on my 10gal and been quite happy with it. Flow is strong but not unmanageable for my fish or shrimp. You might try a Tom Rapids if you want a cheaper option. Those have to stay at the level of the tank and can't be put underneath the tank in a stand, however. An Eheim 2213 would probably work.


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## bikeny (Apr 29, 2010)

lauraleellbp said:


> If you put T5HO over this tank you'll need CO2. _Especially_ with it being an iwagumi; that will just be way too much light.


Why would I need CO2 if using a single T5 HO bulb? That's 39 watts. The double T5 NO you suggested would be 42 watts.

Confused.

Mark


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## goddessjen (Mar 9, 2008)

I second the eheim 2213. They are terrific filters and you can customize the intake and return for this tank. 

I also think you will be fine with a 39 watt t5ho and no co2. WPG rule does not really apply to nano tank and I am running 40 watts PC fluorescent on my 4 gallon and no co2 or ferts and have no algae. You can always raise the light higher above the tank if you find it is too much light. 

The dry start method also helps prevent algae problems when you fill the tank because the roots will already be well established and will *hopefully* out-compete the algae.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Reflectors also have a huge impact on the amount of light that actually gets directed down into the tank. A friend of mine did the math between those fixtures once b/c I was considering putting one of the Glo fixtures over my 29gal, and the dual bulb T5NO actually puts out less usuable light than the single bulb T5HO, largely due to the difference in the reflectors between the two.


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

I would go with the 42 T5 NO. If you have a problem with algae hten just remove one bulb.


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## otofish (Apr 11, 2010)

First of all, welcome to the forum. Sorry to hear about your clown and the rest of your SW tank. 
For your new tank I would definitely go with the lower lighting = 1 T5NO unless you are planning on changing your plants in the future or think you won't want a low maintenance tank. The plants you picked should flourish under the lower(still not low) lighting. Even in the ideal situation where the higher lighting doesn't give you algae, higher light will translate to faster growth which will mean more pruning and maintenance for you. You also want to consider the height of the tank and not just the gallonage. A 12 gallon cube needs very different lighting than you tank. Maybe the huge range of dimensions for nanos is the reason WPG doesn't work for these tanks?


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## mightyoak (Mar 10, 2010)

Definitely like the long tanks. Working on the 20l now. Always a work in progress.


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## bikeny (Apr 29, 2010)

Thanks you everyone for the comments on the lighting, I am going to have to think about that for bit. Sounds like one T5 NO bulb would be sufficient, but the LEDs are intriguing!

Any other comments on the rest of my setup?

I am currently investigating small canister filters. It would have to be located below the tank, so that rules out the Tom's mini canister. I actually have one of those on another tank, it works OK, but is a pain to clean. Something with quick disconnect hoses would be a big plus!

Also, I was looking at the lily pipes from GLA or Aquaticmagic, any comment on those? Seems like a cheaper option that ADA. Also, Ebay lists a bunch. I'm assuming they are good enough for my needs but not quiet up to ADA standards.

I would still like to keep the tank unheated. That would rule out the Otos, but I'm thinking just a nice group of WCMM and a bunch of shrimp. I saw some Cherry Shrimp at a local store over the weekend, they look nice for a small tank.

Mark


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## F22 (Sep 21, 2008)

I like leds, but the marineland have the actinics in them and there is no point to them, I am running them now and they look cool, if I could figure out how to switch them to a white led I would do so.I think they are on sale online cheap this month, I like them and for your tank plans they are cool. Check out the still swampy tank in my sig to see them in action.


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## bikeny (Apr 29, 2010)

F22 said:


> I like leds, but the marineland have the actinics in them and there is no point to them, I am running them now and they look cool, if I could figure out how to switch them to a white led I would do so.I think they are on sale online cheap this month, I like them and for your tank plans they are cool. Check out the still swampy tank in my sig to see them in action.


Thanks for the response. I don't see any tank pic's in your sig? I considered changing out the LEDs. I have been playing with high power LEDs for night mountain biking for years now, so I have not problem experimenting! I wonder what kind of LEDs are in the fixture, and how hard it is to take apart.

Mark


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## F22 (Sep 21, 2008)

I dunno I'm afraid to touch mine and pull it apart lol. Sorry, I meant the link, the second one has the led tank.


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## bikeny (Apr 29, 2010)

OK, so I decided to skip the LED light for now. I just ordered one of the Coralife 36" T5 NO lights from Ebay for $54.00 shipped, not bad! If I am motivated down the line I may look into a DIY LED upgrade to it. I will probably use both bulbs during the emersed growth period, and maybe try only one bulb when I fill the tank. The tank is only 9.4" tall, so with substrate the water depth will be anywhere from 8.5 to 7 inches.

Also, I got a chance to unpack an inspect the tank yesterday. I have to say it looks really nice. Nicely beveled edges, not much overlap, and everything lines up very well. I thought the glass would be a bit thicker for this length tank, but as I said, it's not very tall, so not an issue.

I am still investigating canister filters, but will buy one for the tank. What are peoples thouhgts on the Ehein ECCO filters? Didn't find much discusion on them, are they still good? Also looking at some of the cheaper lily pipe knockoffs on Ebay, GLA, and Aquaticmagic.

Now i just have to convince my wife that this tank would look great on the console table in our family room!

Mark


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## tuffgong (Apr 13, 2010)

You can't go wrong with an Eheim. They are just a little bit expensive, but well worth it. I only got my Eheim b/c it was on sale for 30% off. Otherwise I was going with a Rena XP3 which is much cheaper, but performs just as well from what I hear.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I've got an Ecco. It's OK. I'm a little nervous about how they don't have a safety feature to shut off the motor if it ever overheats, so for that reason I prefer the Classics.

I'd probably go with an Eheim 2213 or a Rena XP1 for this tank, personally.


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## Amazonfish (Oct 20, 2009)

I just got a 12 long tank, too :icon_mrgr I took it out of the box today and noticed a chipped corner. :icon_conf They were really nice at Marine Depot and they'll be sending a new one today at no cost to me. 

Anywho, I wanted to let you know that I started a thread in the equipment section because I was stuck on what filter to get. You should check out the thread. it should still be on the first page, I think. I finally decided on the Eheim 2213. I'm really excited about it :icon_mrgr

good luck with your tank--I can't WAIT to see pictures!

Lara


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## bikeny (Apr 29, 2010)

Amazonfish said:


> I just got a 12 long tank, too :icon_mrgr I took it out of the box today and noticed a chipped corner. :icon_conf They were really nice at Marine Depot and they'll be sending a new one today at no cost to me.
> 
> Anywho, I wanted to let you know that I started a thread in the equipment section because I was stuck on what filter to get. You should check out the thread. it should still be on the first page, I think. I finally decided on the Eheim 2213. I'm really excited about it :icon_mrgr
> 
> ...


Bummer about the chipped tank, but good that Marinedepot is making it right. I have been watching your thread in the equipment section as well. Looks like you decided on the Eheim 2213, which should work well. I have some time to think about it, so I will just be watching ebay and looking for sales at the usual mailorder houses. It may be a while until my tank is setup anyway.

Now I am onto researching substrate. My initial idea was to use ADA Powersand special and then ADA Aquasoil Amazonia, but now I am confused. Do I use the original Amazonia, or the Amazonia II? Do I use the normal size or the finer powder type? I like a finer substrate for a small tank like this, but will I have problems using only the powder type? Then I started reading about people having problems with the aquasoil 'melting', although that seemed to be with more alkaline water. Luckily my water is just below nuetral PH, so that shouldn't be an issue. But then people have problems with ammonia spikes with the original Amazonia.

ARGHHHH! Too much information to digest!

Mark


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## F22 (Sep 21, 2008)

just wanna say bravo on doing all this research before you fill...


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## bikeny (Apr 29, 2010)

OK, so I decided on one of the Eheim classic canisters. Now the question, which one? I like the idea of the 2211, nice and small and easy to hide, but will it be enough flow? Also, I plan to put it below the tank with a height difference of about 2.5 feet, any problem there? Otherwise I will go with the 2213, not much more money, but bigger and harder to hide!

This may be a silly question, but does the height difference effect the flow of a canister? Or does it not matter because it's a closed system?

Thanks,
Mark


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## mgdmirage (Mar 30, 2009)

Yes you'll still get headloss on the canister.


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## nimo (Mar 16, 2009)

If possible instead of Echinodorus Tenellus, I would suggest you to use Elocharis Accicularis (Hair Grass) ... Tenellus is nitrate hogger and since I see you are using power sand should not be a problem.. but with Tenellus, I always had difficulty in making them stay at a proper place.. when they pick up growth, they are like everywhere shooting runners...


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## bikeny (Apr 29, 2010)

First, I want to thank everyone for thier input in getting me off to a good start, expecially Lauraleellbp!

Here is the first tank update. I have the tank and light fixture ready to go. The light is a Coralife T5NO 36" unit, man is it small! First question: I was thinking about only using one bulb, but when I remove one bulb the fixture does not light, any way around this?

My first attempt at attaching pictures below, hopefully it works!

For filtration I have decided on an Eheim 2213 and some cheap Lily pipes. The lily pipes are from Aquatic Magic, their 9mm set for $35. I also took advantage of a free shipping offer, so I think that's a good deal. It was actually hard to find a set for this tank because of the shallow height. Most of the pipes were too long and would stick way up above the tank and look goofy. I will have to find an adapter to go between the Eheim tubing the the 9mm tubing required for the lily pipes, but that shouldn't be too hard.

Now the really good news. I was contacted by Dr. Foster and Smith saying I won a $100 gift certificate for being on their mailing list! I am just waiting for it to arrive and will then order my 2213 along with some clear tubing.

The next step is to get the substrate. I have decided to use ADA Amazonia I Powder type, and maybe some Power Sand. I want to use the powder type because I think the normal type looks out of proportion in a small tank. I can get it locally for $50.00 for the 9 liter bag, or order online for $36.00 plus $20.00 shipping. I don't think I need 9L, but 2 3L bags might not be enough, and costs about the same.

I think that's it for now!
Mark


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## ryanlogic (Dec 21, 2009)

*wow.*

I love that tank. 

Ive been thinking about getting a GLA tank with different dimensions. but this looks great. which light is that exactly? the proportions are great. 

Im gonna follow along. good luck!


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## PlatinumSM (Apr 25, 2010)

I have the same tank with the 2213 filter and Amazonia aquasoil, and the Coralife fixture and everything is flourishing!  

I would be careful with the powder type substrate - Amano does not suggest using it alone, but just as a clean-looking top layer over the Amazonia substrate and I agree. The powder will get compacted over time and could affect root growth.

Good luck with your tank!


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## keeshond9 (Nov 30, 2008)

Hi PlatinumSM

Any chance you can tell me what your growing in the 12g Long? I have the same tank and planning to use a GLO 36" 39W that I already have. Planning to go ADA Amazonian also. How much did you need?
thanks


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