# Treating ICH in Planted Tank?



## koebwil

I tend to move all of the affected fish to a quarantine tank. if you don't have any inverts you could just use meds in the tank.


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## Aussie!

Ive just successfully treated ich in my 17g planted tank with just heat. No salt. I raised the temp to 86/87F and left it there for 2 weeks. No sign of it now.


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## koldsoup

Meds wouldn't affect the plants?


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## koldsoup

So the heat only method? That sounds safer to me. Thanks.


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## Aubzilla

Kordon makes an organic/natural "Ich Attack" that is totally plant safe. You can get it at PetSmart and you use it daily for 1 week. The bottle treats up to 920 gallons.


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## speedie408

Mardel Maracide works best. All you need is one treatment. IME it does not effect plants.

Excess heat method works too but some plants will melt.


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## DarkCobra

I used to have some malachite green drops. Very concentrated (1 drop per gallon) and didn't contain the formalin that most ick meds also contain.

Used it in my planted tanks many times without problems, and it always took care of the ick. No good for shrimp though, since malachite green is copper-based.


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## koldsoup

Thanks for the replies. I have a bottle of quick cure. Does anyone have experience with that in planted tanks? If not I'll try one of the methods above.


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## zdnet

koldsoup said:


> How does one treat for ich in a planted tank? The most common method for treating ich is to raise temperature and add salt but the salt isn't good for plants. Is there any way besides having to remove all the plants? Thanks.


UV sterilizer is effective and safe for all the things in a tank.


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## zdnet

DarkCobra said:


> I used to have some malachite green drops. Very concentrated (1 drop per gallon) and didn't contain the formalin that most ick meds also contain.


Malachite green is NOT a recommended treatment for Ich. From "Ichthyophthirius Multifiliis (White Spot) Infections in Fish":

"The chemicals listed above (copper sulfate, potassium permanganate, formalin, and salt) are all excellent treatments for 'Ich'. Malachite green is mentioned for the sake of completion, but is not recommended by the authors. The chemical is hazardous to handle- it is known to cause cancer, mutations, and is harmful to fetuses.
. . .
This chemical is extremely harsh on fish, particularly on gill tissue, so be careful not to overdose the fish.
. . .
Malachite green can be very toxic to scaleless fish and should be avoided on these species."





DarkCobra said:


> Used it in my planted tanks many times without problems, and it always took care of the ick. No good for shrimp though, since malachite green is copper-based.


Repeating Ich outbreaks may indicate problem with the environment or maintenance. From "Ich (White Spot Disease)":

"maintaining well-nourished fish helps significantly in preventing Ich. It is not unusual for emaciated, starved fish to become infected with Ich."


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## Mr_Bubbles

I had a case of Ich a while back and i upped my temperature to almost 90, for like 2 weeks, not ideal for the plants, but it didn't cause too much damage, but I had pretty hardy plants at the time.


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## koldsoup

Thanks for all the info. I've bumped up the temperature for 2 days now and the few spots seem to be decreasing in numbers so I might just stick with that for now.


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## DarkCobra

zdnet said:


> Repeating Ich outbreaks may indicate problem with the environment or maintenance.


Every ich outbreak I've had was after the purchase of a new fish.

And while you can find quotes to support any strange opinion you might have, the fact remains that malachite green is the most common chemical used in ich medications.


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## szenic

koldsoup said:


> Thanks for the replies. I have a bottle of quick cure. Does anyone have experience with that in planted tanks? If not I'll try one of the methods above.


I had an outbreak awhile back. I used the heat method, raised to about 86-88 for 2 weeks. I also used quick cure at the same time for maybe a week. All fish and plants survived. I used the quick cure at half does though because I had tetras and catfish.


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## zdnet

DarkCobra said:


> Every ich outbreak I've had was after the purchase of a new fish.


Ich outbreak is often triggered by fish stress due to improper handling or environment.




DarkCobra said:


> And while you can find quotes to support any strange opinion you might have, the fact remains that malachite green is the most common chemical used in ich medications.


 Being the most common chemical in use does not mean it is the best one to use.

What the informed people do may seem strange to the uninformed. I guess the idea that animal protein promotes cancer growth is another "strange" thing to you


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## wkndracer

this was about helping the OP deal with a problem in his tank right?


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## BradH

I would do salt and higher temps. I have used salt in my planted tanks for short periods of time without any ill effects on plants. To me it seems like a better solution than putting chemicals in your tank, but that's just my opinion.


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## DarkCobra

I've used salt and heat successfully as well. And would prefer that to chemicals, at least in principle.

But heat can be stressful to fish also. And salt is supposed to be harmful to scaleless fish as well, though I've never actually had any problems with either salt or malachite green. I did see some minor plant wilting from salt, and the affected plants experienced slower growth for a few weeks after the treatment.

So in the end, any method has potential risks. Be well informed, and choose whichever set of risks appeals more to you. 

However, I do take issue when someone spreads disinformation by quoting references, while conveniently and selectively replacing things that put it in proper context with "..." as Zdnet has done.

To clear things up, here is the full paragraph, with the omitted portions in bold:

_"* Malachite green is another chemical which can be used to treat ornamental fish that are housed indoors. This chemical should NEVER be used to treat food fish. Not only is this illegal and unethical, but it is totally unnecessary.* The chemicals listed above (copper sulfate, potassium permanganate, formalin, and salt) are all excellent treatments for "Ich". Malachite green is mentioned for the sake of completion, but is not recommended by the authors. The chemical is hazardous to handle- it is known to cause cancer, mutations, and is harmful to fetuses. *Gloves and a protective mask should always be worn when handling the concentrated powder. Pregnant personnel should NEVER handle this chemical. Despite its toxicity, it is commonly used to control parasitic protozoans on ornamental fish and is quite effective when used at concentrations of 0.05 to 0.10 mg/L as an indefinite bath.* This chemical is extremely harsh on fish, particularly on gill tissue, so be careful not to overdose the fish. *Malachite green can also be combined with formalin (0.2 mg/L malachite green mixed with 25 mg/L formalin) to treat external protozoan diseases. The two chemicals work well together and are quite effective.* Malachite green can be very toxic to scaleless fish and should be avoided on these species."_

Note how he's effectively distorted the quote, by omitting the majority of it that shows:

1) This paragraph's recommendations are specific to best practices for large-scale ornamental fish farming businesses. The article has a separate section which addresses hobbyists and pet fish, which says _"Pet fish can be treated with any of the chemicals discussed above to correct 'Ich' infections. A number of commercial preparations are available from pet stores which contain one or several of these agents."_ And as I previously stated, most of the preparations found in pet stores contain malachite green; so the article does in fact consider malachite green an acceptable treatment.

2) The danger from handling malachite green is specifically for concentrated powders, again as might be used in large-scale operations; which can be accidentally inhaled, or significantly absorbed through the skin due to their strength. There is no danger handling heavily prediluted liquid solutions, like the average hobbyist uses.

3) Malachite green is in fact effective, and can be used safely even as an indefinite bath, as long as it is dosed properly.

That, along with other references posted in this thread (cell phone use and eating animals causes cancer!) should be enough to demonstrate a particular agenda and pattern of bias on his part. Which I'd consider extreme enough that the OP and others should be aware of it, so that his statements can be properly taken with... well, an extra grain of salt. :hihi:


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## sevenyearnight

Aubzilla said:


> Kordon makes an organic/natural "Ich Attack" that is totally plant safe. You can get it at PetSmart and you use it daily for 1 week. The bottle treats up to 920 gallons.


+1. I've used this and it worked.


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## koldsoup

Thanks for the input and the lovely info on malachite. I've bumped up the temperature for 2 days now and the spots seem to be lessening. The tank does have plecos and cories so I'm going to avoid meds and salt at the moment. Again, thanks for all the suggestions.


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## zdnet

DarkCobra said:


> 1) This paragraph's recommendations are specific to best practices for large-scale ornamental fish farming businesses. The article has a separate section which addresses hobbyists and pet fish, which says _"Pet fish can be treated with any of the chemicals discussed above to correct 'Ich' infections. A number of commercial preparations are available from pet stores which contain one or several of these agents."_ And as I previously stated, most of the preparations found in pet stores contain malachite green; so the article does in fact consider malachite green an acceptable treatment.


No one said that malachite green is unacceptable. Just that it is not recommended.

BTW, you were not recommending just some highly diluted solution containing malachite green. You were recommending the "very concentrated" form of malachite green:



DarkCobra said:


> I used to have some malachite green drops. Very concentrated(1 drop per gallon)


Anyone following your advice would be exposed to unnecessary risk by handling such "very concentrated" from of malachite green.




DarkCobra said:


> 2) The danger from handling malachite green is specifically for concentrated powders, again as might be used in large-scale operations; which can be accidentally inhaled, or significantly absorbed through the skin due to their strength. There is no danger handling heavily prediluted liquid solutions, like the average hobbyist uses.


When the article warned about the handling of malachite green, it did not refer to any specific forms. It just said "The chemical is hazardous to handle- it is known to cause cancer, mutations, and is harmful to fetuses." That means the warning applies to all forms of malachite green. The article then gave advice on how to handle the concentrated powder.

Now you argue that, because of the "how" mentioned in the article, the warning applies only to the concentrated powder. You are therefore watering down the warning and misleading people.




DarkCobra said:


> 3) Malachite green is in fact effective, and can be used safely even as an indefinite bath, as long as it is dosed properly.


No one was disputing on the effectiveness or safe use of malachite green.

As I had quoted from the original article, malachite green is "extremely harsh" on fish. While you might not care about that as long as your fish survive, I believe many other people here do. They are compassionate to their fish and will therefore choose something that is much gentler but equally effective.




DarkCobra said:


> That, along with other references posted in this thread (cell phone use and eating animals causes cancer!) should be enough to demonstrate a particular agenda and pattern of bias on his part. Which I'd consider extreme enough that the OP and others should be aware of it, so that his statements can be properly taken with... well, an extra grain of salt. :hihi:


I understand where you are coming from. As I'd pointed out, what the informed people do may seem strange or even extreme to the uninformed. But do not short change yourself. Have an open mind and be informed. After learning of the pathway involved and the large scale human studies from countries around the world, what was once considered impossible suddenly becomes all the more real.


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## DarkCobra

The "very concentrated" solution I used is 0.5%. 200x times weaker than the powder.

I would not recommend covering yourself with it from head to toe, in a misguided attempt to stain yourself green and play an Orion slave girl from Star Trek. :biggrin:

However, getting a little on yourself accidentally is no big deal. Common sense tells you that; but if you prefer a professional opinion, read the warning again:

_"Gloves and a protective mask should always be worn when handling the concentrated powder."_

If accidental exposure to solution presented any risk worth mentioning, they wouldn't have specified safety precautions _only_ for the powder.

Unless one is able to grasp the correct meaning of what they read, they can never be "informed".


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## barbarian206

i have an out break of ich in my discus tank and all i use is heat cannot use meds or salt salt will change the kh in the tank if im correct this is wat i read also was eold not to use salt with the cats and discus i also have cards


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## ridethespiral

I used salt at the rate of about one and a half table spoons per 5 gallons and 30 degree Celsius temperature on my synodontis petricolas when they developed ich a few days after introducing them into my tank. They have no scales, as well as all plants in my tank did perfectly fine other than wilting a bit like old lettuce.


I lost two only because of my own error. There was nothing oxygenating the water that day.. I had turned off the air pump and the water level was higher so no surface agitation. You must oxygenate the water if you're going to increase the temperature. All but two (dead) were gasping at the surface O.O


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## sevenyearnight

I'm really sorry for your loss 
I was just talking about how too high of heat can kill the fish sometimes, even with extra aeration.
I posted an adapted heat and salt method, that advocates lower 80° - 84° F, and is proven successful and safe. If you are interested, here is the link: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/fish/149061-ich-skinny-disease.html#post1526567
I hope everything goes better, and I'm sorry again for your loss. I've accidentally had a fish die too in higher heat, and I did have extra aeration, I think the ich was just too advanced.


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## zdnet

DarkCobra said:


> Unless one is able to grasp the correct meaning of what they read, they can never be "informed".


Well, it was you who wrongly accused me of spreading disinformation. You insisted that the article's warning was "specifically" for the concentrated powder form of malachite green:



DarkCobra said:


> However, I do take issue when someone spreads disinformation by quoting references, while conveniently and selectively replacing things that put it in proper context with "..." as Zdnet has done.
> 
> . . .
> 
> 2) The danger from handling malachite green is specifically for concentrated powders


And now you speak of grasping the "correct meaning"? What an irony!

So how do people verify that they've indeed got the correct meaning? Through parsing the content according to the language grammar. Here is the warning as appeared in "Ichthyophthirius Multifiliis (White Spot) Infections in Fish":

"Malachite green is mentioned for the sake of completion, but is not recommended by the authors. The chemical is hazardous to handle- it is known to cause cancer, mutations, and is harmful to fetuses."

The second sentence starts with the expression "The chemical". It is a grammatical way of referring back to the subject in the first sentence. That subject is malachite green. Saying "The chemical is hazardous..." is grammatically the same as saying "Malachite green is hazardous...". Therefore, the hazard warning is NOT specifically for the concentrated powder form of malachite green. It is for malachite green, regardless of its form.

DarkCobra, it is you who had failed to grasp the correct meaning of what was written. You were the one spreading disinformation.


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## DarkCobra

What's important is that the _complete and proper quote_ is now posted, rather than just your _selectively edited_ version, so people can make up their own minds. And that's all I've got to say about that.


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## zdnet

DarkCobra said:


> What's important is that the _complete and proper quote_ is now posted, rather than just your _selectively edited_ version, so people can make up their own minds. And that's all I've got to say about that.


Good to see that you are finally backing away from spreading the disinformation roud:


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## kalawai2000

Wow! I think someone turned up the heat in this tank. It's getting a bit warm in here.


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## Studman0143

I used Kordon in my 10G planted tank and no affects I notice.


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## robinss

fish fight!!


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