# Battling BGA - 1 year on



## Barbels (Aug 3, 2004)

*Bga*

Hi Sharon,
I used Eurythromiacyn from Mardel. I used the regular dose on my 75g for five days, thank God bga left and never came back
Let me know if you would like me to send you some. I'd be happy to help.
Sue


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## frogfone (Mar 8, 2004)

Hi Sue

Thanks for the offer to send some erythromycin. I actually have some but don't have the guts to use it. I think if the conditons remain the same it will just come back, tougher and anti-biotic resistant. 

Could possibly use it instead of blackout method and combined with increased NO3?

Sharon


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## random_alias (Jun 28, 2005)

If you have a 170 gallon tank and discuss, you might as well take care of all your bases, you're already in deep.

You need to swing things in favor of your plants. 

If your water is too soft and unstable to add CO2, then fix the water. You can raise your alkalinity by adding plain pure baking soda (sodium bicarbonate). Dose it correctly and you can easily hit a target value within .5KH. My water starts out with a KH of 0. I add 1/2 teaspoon of baking soda per 5 gallons and it raises my KH to around 4. So, every 1/8 teaspoon per 5 gallons raises the KH by around 1 degree. Try it with a sample of your tap water to get a feel for how much you should dose. I tested it in a 5 gallon bucket first. Don't find out by dumping baking soda directly into your tank. Get your water around 4-5 KH and you can safely inject CO2. Mind you, adding baking soda also raises your ph, but the increase is offset by the lowering effect of the CO2. If your General Hardness is too low you can raise your GH with SeaChem Equilibrium. I don't know about this product's availablity in your area.

I don't know how the watts per gallon rule applies to tanks as large as yours, but make sure you have enough light. If you start injecting CO2, light and nutrients need to be increased accordingly.

Tom's Estimative Index dosing method is based on a standard. He took fast growing plants and placed them under high light and good CO2 so that nutrient levels could be the only limiting factor. He then dosed ferts, increasing the dosages at intervals until he finally hit a point where the plants could not consume it all. That is the standard - the maximum uptake that fast growing plants under excellent environmental conditions can maintain. So what we do is take this dosage and scale it up or down to match whatever water volume we are using. It is assumed that we cannot have aquariums with much faster growing plants, better light, or better CO2 than Tom used in his initial testing. So, we cannot underdose using this method (assuming we scale his dosages to our tanks properly). We can however, and it is assumed that we will, overdose. It is assumed that minorly overdosing these ferts will not promote algae growth. To keep the overdosing within acceptable limits, we do 50% water changes. Lets say you dose for a week, but your tank has only half the volume of fast growing plants his had, or yours has weaker lighting, or your CO2 is out of whack. Not a problem. You will be putting in twice the amount of nutrients than your plants are eating, but if you do a 50% water change at the end of the week (this is not a rule, just a general guideline for starting out, it could be every 2-3 weeks, depending on your situation) then you essentially "reset" your tank. 

The whole point is to avoid using test kits and having to "worry" over your hobby, thus increasing the amount of pleasure you get out of keeping your aquarium. That's why it's called "estimative". Basic dosing involves micronutrients (traces) and macronutrients through Potassium Nitrate and Mono Potassium Phosphate. You can get it straight from the horse's mouth at http://www.barrreport.com/ It works.

I'm telling you all this because it's important to get your environmental variables in order so that once you get rid of the BGA it won't just come right back, like shooing off a stray dog is only temporary if you keep dumping food in the same spot.

I've never done a blackout, but there are plently of posts around here and the other forum with people reporting their successful methods, so I won't improperly advise you.


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## aquabillpers (Nov 28, 2003)

In my opinion the easiest way to get rid of BGA is to use Maracyn from Mardel at half the recommended dose. Remove the dead stuff as it dies and keep the treatment up for 3 or 4 days. Then do a partial water change. The BGA will be gone.

You have to get your nitrates higher. With your PO4 level at over 3 you should raise the nitrates to 30 or so. You can do this by adding KNO3 which your druggist or a garden supply store should be able to get for you at low cost. (Don't try to buy a truckload; it is also used to make explosives <g>).

Perhaps do some water changes to lower the phosphates first.

You can easily increase your KH by adding baking soda. Do it slowly, a degree or two a day.

You can also try feeding your discus more. I've read that they will eat a lot and produce much nitrogenous waste.

Get some plants that do well at higher temperatures, plant a good number of those, and your problems will be history.

Good luck!

Bill


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## Barbels (Aug 3, 2004)

random_alias said:


> Tom's Estimative Index dosing method is based on a standard. He took fast growing plants and placed them under high light and good CO2 so that nutrient levels could be the only limiting factor. He then dosed ferts, increasing the dosages at intervals until he finally hit a point where the plants could not consume it all. That is the standard - the maximum uptake that fast growing plants under excellent environmental conditions can maintain. So what we do is take this dosage and scale it up or down to match whatever water volume we are using. It is assumed that we cannot have aquariums with much faster growing plants, better light, or better CO2 than Tom used in his initial testing. So, we cannot underdose using this method (assuming we scale his dosages to our tanks properly). We can however, and it is assumed that we will, overdose. It is assumed that minorly overdosing these ferts will not promote algae growth. To keep the overdosing within acceptable limits, we do 50% water changes. Lets say you dose for a week, but your tank has only half the volume of fast growing plants his had, or yours has weaker lighting, or your CO2 is out of whack. Not a problem. You will be putting in twice the amount of nutrients than your plants are eating, but if you do a 50% water change at the end of the week (this is not a rule, just a general guideline for starting out, it could be every 2-3 weeks, depending on your situation) then you essentially "reset" your tank.


 roud: Random_Alias,
Maybe it was just meant to finally click for me at this moment in time, but that is the best explanation of IE I have ever read! Good job!


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## frogfone (Mar 8, 2004)

Hi everyone, thanks for all your advice roud: 

I really don't think that using erythromycin on it's own is the way to go with our tank. I would need to boost NO3 and KH to get the higher plants to grow better and outcompete the horrible nasty slimy stuff. 

I already add RO right and bicarb to our water just to get it to KH 1.6 Anymore and the pH shoots off into the realms of african ciclids!!! I really don't want to go down the route of CO2 addition, it is not something I know much about and would not like to risk the health of my fish in pursuit of perfect plants. 

As for feeding more, the fish are fed 4 times a day already. We feed Tetra Prima mostly which I'm told is way high in phosphate. This is likely where most of the PO4 is coming from. Our tap water has a lot in it too but I think it is a PO4 buffer used to stabilise pH as our water is so soft. I tried doing 3x 200L water changes with 0ppm PO4 Ro water and it did diddly squat for the PO4 readings. I think I need to get NO3 up and encourage the plants to grow. However, whenever I have tried this in the past I ended up with pea soup for water. 

Any suggestions for high temp fast growing plants? ATM we mostly have giant vallis as that's about all that survives the BGA. We have spent hundreds of pounds on plants in the past and they have all curled up and died in the end! 

Can't really go any higher with lighting either. Have 2 x 48w T8s and 4x 48w T5s. Can't squeeze any more in quite frankly! Tank is too deep for plants realistically. 

Now you can see why I'm getting to the end of my tether. Don't even know if the Barr Method will help as I don't use CO2 and probably don't have any of the other conditions right either. All I do know is conditions are PERFECT for BGA!!!

Thanks again

Sharon


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## aquabillpers (Nov 28, 2003)

Hi, Sharon,




frogfone said:


> I really don't think that using erythromycin on it's own is the way to go with our tank. I would need to boost NO3 and KH to get the higher plants to grow better and outcompete the horrible nasty slimy stuff.


You need to have strongly-growing plants but the BGA is so well established that it will get in the way of that. I doubt that it will disappear; you have to get rid of it in one way or another. 



> I already add RO right and bicarb to our water just to get it to KH 1.6 Anymore and the pH shoots off into the realms of african ciclids!!!


RO Right lacks magnesium and as a result will not support plant growth. Seachem Equilibrium is a better choice for planted tanks, if you have to raise the GH. It has calcium, magnesium, potassium, and iron. I'd think that you could raise the KH with baking soda to 3 or so without spiking the pH. Just do it s l o w l y.



> As for feeding more, the fish are fed 4 times a day already. We feed Tetra Prima mostly which I'm told is way high in phosphate. This is likely where most of the PO4 is coming from.


Since you have a major PO4 problem perhaps you could swith to a lower phosphate food?

When you replant your aquarium (after getting rid of the BGA and getting the NO3 and traces up) plant as many fast growing plants as you can get into the tank. Maybe 100; just a few won't do it. Some warm water fast-growing plants are valsneria, duckweed, water sprite, and hygrophilia. There are other slower growing ones, too. Try a search on "aquatic plants discus."

Good lucK!

Bill


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## random_alias (Jun 28, 2005)

aquabillpers is right about RO Right not being ideal for a planted aquarium. When I first switched from tap to RO, I used RO Right because it was being pushed in the circles I travelled in. I was eventually introduced to Equilibrium and now have an almost full container of RO Right hardening under my stand. If you can get Equilibrium, please do so. 

You don't need to add more light, it'll just give your algae a healthy tan. You don't need to dose more ferts, it'll just help your algae bulk up and have well toned arms. You don't need to add a tank full of fast growing plants, they won't be fast growing plants. They'll just become algae real estate, condos and waterside property so more can move in. You can't take full advantage of any of these things....yet.

You can't get rid of the PO4 because your plants aren't getting the CO2 they need to grow well and eat it all. Your water turned to pea soup when you added nitrate for the same reason. Your ph shoots up when you try to increase your kh because you aren't supplying carbonic acid in the form of dissolved CO2 to counteract the base you are adding. Your tank is out of balance. 

There is a holy trinity, and it is ferts, light, and CO2. You want your plants to grow. Your plants want to grow. Your algae doesn't want your plants to grow. Plants eat light, ferts and Co2 (which is a carbon fert). You can jack any two of them as high as you want, but without the third being in proportion, you're missing the catalyst needed for the good growth to occur and the absorbtion of the other two to take place. It's a holy trinity. Lack one of these elements and your plants can't full full advantage of the other two. Increasing your lighting and ferts without adding CO2 is going to make your algae very happy. It'll send you Christmas cards for the rest of your life. You'll be giving it everything it needs and at the same time keeping your plants from competing with it. It's an algae afterlife and I only hope I am so lucky one day.

You can control your nutrient levels, but you need to be sure you are targeting slow-growth nutrient levels. Most nutrient levels you see are for CO2 and high light. Without the CO2 and high light, those nutrients are an algae buffet.

IMO, CO2 is a linchpin. You can pack your tank with fast growing plants, but without good light and CO2 they won't be fast growing plants. It's like putting an Olympic swimmer in a kiddie pool - they can't reach their stride. 

Come on, you're so close. Most of us would love to have your tank and fish. Those discus want lots of healthy plants around them. No one understands CO2 innately. I avoided it for as long as I could as well, but I eventually had to come to a decision: leave the hobby out of frustration or get CO2. You sound like you are about there now. Once I made the decision and got started, CO2 turned out to be pretty simple and easy. You can put the $ into replacing melting and pulled plants or an initial investment in CO2. The $ is going to flow in one of those directions. It is entirely your choice and I'll respect whatever you decide. 

Just don't commit a very common mistake of not knowing about or employing CO2 in your well-lit planted aquarium that is out of balance.


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## aquabillpers (Nov 28, 2003)

Sharon has about 1.5 wpg. I would not consider that to be so much light as to require CO2 injection to get good plant growth, although even in low light that would help. 

She does have to increase her nitrates and plant heavily with plants that will grow fast in moderate light environments. The ones I mentioned will do that. Water sprite, duckweed, and the larger vals, in particular, would be good.

Excessive nitrates and phosphates do not cause algae; the lack of healthy plants does. 

There is something called the "Redfield Ratio" which, simply put, is the ratio between nitrates and phosphates in a tank. The optimum seems to be between 10 to 1 and 20 to 1, where the larger number is the nitrates.
For example, nitrates at 15 ppm and phosphates at 1.0 ppm would yield a ratio of 15. Sharon's ratio is about .60 (<2 ppm of nitrate and > 3 ppm of phosphate) and this is guaranteed to grow algae.

Here's a link to a description of the "Redfield Ratio."

http://www.xs4all.nl/~buddendo/aquarium/redfield_eng.htm

And here's a link to an article on planted tanks and discus:

http://www.tropica.dk/article.asp?type=aquaristic&id=453


Bill


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## random_alias (Jun 28, 2005)

I read the Redfield Ratio article and it's interesting...bookmarked.
If I took an empty tank, lit it moderately, filled it with dechlorinated water and dosed phosphorus and nitrogen so that their RR was 16, is it true that I would not have algae problems? That doesn't seem right. Their have to be organisms in water that can make use of the light source and those nutrients to grow in the absence of plant competition. Does supplying N and PO4 in those ratios somehow magically lock it up so that algae can't access it? What am I missing? Plant type, growth and biomass have to factor in somehow don't they?

Looking back on my previous post, I went on quite the rant. I'm not sure why. I don't _think_ anything was bothering me ATM. For whatever reason, I was out of line. I think it was that I was seeing you heading down a similar road I went down for awhile and I really really wish someone had set me straight back then. Sharon, I didn't mean to chew you up and spit you out. If those plants will grow in your light, then great...you can dose your ferts properly and the plants will keep their levels consistent, outcompeting algae.

Jeez, I'm gonna go take a pill and stare at my tank and try to chill.


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## aquabillpers (Nov 28, 2003)

Hi, Random,

I don't think you were out of line. Your comments about "bulking up" and "tanning" the algae were funny!

The Redfield Ratio deals only with the relation between nitrates and phosphates. I suspect you could grow some healthy algae in your hypothesized environment.

There are a host of other requirements for a healthy planted tank, as I think you know. <g>

Bill


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

RR is for marine phytoplankton, not Fw weeds.

The ratios I've found are 4.85:1 and an average of about 7:1 for a large number of anaylzed FW plants(the BarrReport July 2005 Article actually).

That's over 2x more P than RR.

Hardly applicable in theory...................

Blackout:

Do not skip part of this method, it will not work if you do not add KNO3, it will not work if you do not cover the tank and just turn the light off, these are the two main mistakes.

Clean tank well, clean filter. Scrub below the gravel line where the glass and the gravel meet. Remove any you might find there. Use net to fluff off all the BGA you can. Do large water change. Add 1/4 teaspoon of KNO3 per 80 liters of tank.Turn light off for 3 days, cover tank with black trash bags etc.
Turn off CO2, tilt filter outflow to increase surface turbulance.

Wait 3 days(feed fish etc, you can turn the light on for a few minutes etc.)

Turn light on, connect CO2, do another water change and dose KNO3 at the same amount as before.

Add a KNO3 dose once a week after water change for this particular tank. I would do more water changes for this tank also. You could add:

KNO3 : 1/2 teaspoon weekly
K2SO4: 1/2 teaspoon weekly
Traces: TMG would be the best optiion for this tank: 10-15mls weekly

If you do large water changes weekly, you can add a bit more.

Also, add some GH!!!!
SeaChem Equilibrium at 1/2 teaspoon once a week will be fine.

Discus do not mind higher GH's.
I've bred Blue Diamionds in KH of 5.5 and GH's of 9.

If they bred, they are happy.


You can use Excel by seaChem, but it'd take a lot to use for this tank, you can buy 4 liter jugs for about 37 USD$ from some mail order places.
You'd use that in a month or two.
It would work quite well though otherwise.

UK has KNO3, KH2PO4 etc for sale, see Tropical Fish Center forums. Several of my subscribers and friends are from there. 

Regards, 
Tom Barr

www.BarrReport.com


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

random_alias said:


> I read the Redfield Ratio article and it's interesting...bookmarked.
> If I took an empty tank, lit it moderately, filled it with dechlorinated water and dosed phosphorus and nitrogen so that their RR was 16, is it true that I would not have algae problems? That doesn't seem right. Their have to be organisms in water that can make use of the light source and those nutrients to grow in the absence of plant competition. Does supplying N and PO4 in those ratios somehow magically lock it up so that algae can't access it? What am I missing? Plant type, growth and biomass have to factor in somehow don't they?
> 
> Looking back on my previous post, I went on quite the rant. I'm not sure why. I don't _think_ anything was bothering me ATM. For whatever reason, I was out of line. I think it was that I was seeing you heading down a similar road I went down for awhile and I really really wish someone had set me straight back then. Sharon, I didn't mean to chew you up and spit you out. If those plants will grow in your light, then great...you can dose your ferts properly and the plants will keep their levels consistent, outcompeting algae.
> ...



RA, welcome to the dark side

Muhahahahaha!! I say in a lab coat(or is it a straight jacket?).....

Actually the EI issue was very well explained. 

But back to the issue, the blackout how for this tank and the long term dosing for a non CO2 big Discus tank.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## aquabillpers (Nov 28, 2003)

plantbrain said:


> RR is for marine phytoplankton, not Fw weeds.
> 
> The ratios I've found are 4.85:1 and an average of about 7:1 for a large number of anaylzed FW plants(the BarrReport July 2005 Article actually).
> 
> That's over 2x more P than RR.


At the risk of prolonging this thread beyond its natural end, I want to add that usually a N to P ration of 10 to 1 or so is the accepted relationship. This can be verified by Googling. There is also a good discussion about it at The Krib, to which Tom contributed and supported the 10:1 - 16:1 ratios. The link is http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Fertilizer/phosphorus.html. (Roger Miller also contributed sunstantially to that discussion.) 

I'm not sure that relative nutrient levels in the water should approximate those determined by analyzing plant tissue. Plants store nutrients for use in hard times, and possible at different rates. Some people have body fat of 50 percent or higher, but that doesn't mean that their diets should contain that much fat.  

Anyway, the bottom line in this is that Sharon needs to get more phosphorous into her water relative to the nitrates. Then she can grow plants if she does other things which have been well covered.

Bill


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## jmiz16 (Aug 12, 2004)

Hi guys,

I have that BGA for about a year now and it always grows in the same part of the tank, on the same 6 sqare inches of gravel.. I dont want to do anything drastic and I have raised my levels to no avail. My tank is 240 gallons.

When I look at the tank I see the BGA under the gravel along the glass walls. How does it grow in the dark? If I does with Maracin will it go down under 4 inches of gravel?


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## frogfone (Mar 8, 2004)

Ok, I have read and think I have understood to a degree any way. Still have some questions...

1. Is it possible to run a planted tank without CO2? My understanding is that you can but it will be more difficult, yes? 

2. Is some CO2 better than none? eg if we use a DIY pop bottle CO2 and diffuser will this be better than none at all or will it fuel the algae even more? 

Current plan of action: (please feel free to add or comment)

1. Purchase Seachem Equilibrium
2. Purchase KNO3
3. Buy UK trace element mix micro trace elements 
4. Stabilise GH and KH at what???
5. Source fast growing, heat tolerant plants
6. Start Blackout
7. Add KNO3
8. After blackout add new plants
9. Add pop bottle CO2 system ????
10. Start BARR method with 2x30% water changes per week. (still not clear on amounts after blackout)


> KNO3 : 1/2 teaspoon weekly
> K2SO4: 1/2 teaspoon weekly


 Is this for the whole tank or per a stated volume? K2SO4 is potash right? I have some of that already. Is this added at the same time as KNO3? :icon_conf 

Arrrghhh! Too many questions :icon_conf 

Anyway, thanks again for all your help. This is beginning to make my reef tank look like a walk in the park!!!

Sharon


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

It's for 

"Is this for the whole tank or per a stated volume? K2SO4 is potash right? I have some of that already. Is this added at the same time as KNO3?"

your tank specifically.

Whole tank.

K2SO4 is sulfur of Potash.

Yes.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## aquabillpers (Nov 28, 2003)

Sharon,

I think most of us are assuming that you are smitten with the idea of becoming an aquatic plant hobbyist and are advising you accordingly. But maybe you see plants as the best way to fix your high phosphate problem?

Growing aquatic plants is very rewarding in itself, but it does take a certain amount of effort and expense, and if you are mainly trying to keep the discus' environment healthy, there are better ways.

So what is your pleasure, Madame?

Bill


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Happy plants = happy fish, my happy plants made my happy Discus(along with good feeding) breed.

I do not even have to try to bred things, they just do.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## frogfone (Mar 8, 2004)

Bill you have hit the nail on the head! I can take or leave plants, as you can probably tell I have not until very recently taken much interest in them. I really see them as a solution to the problem of the BGA. I like the idea of encouraging them to grow in order to outcompete the bad algae. In our reef we have a sump dedicated to this idea full of fast growing marine algae, keeps the tank free of nuisance stuff. Totally different ball park with the FW set-up though  

I totally agree that happy plants indicate a healthy aquarium in which my discus will thrive. It's just getting there that's the hard part!

Sharon


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## shalu (Jan 16, 2003)

In my experience, BGA in a discus tank indicates you are not doing enough water changes, causing too much organic waste buildup and/or you have too little inorganic NO3, seems the latter case for you. I had couple of BGA outbreaks in the past. Now I change more water and dose KNO3 even though test kit will tell me that NO3 is already pretty high. Have not seen BGA in a long while, probably never will.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

I concur with Sha lu.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## aquabillpers (Nov 28, 2003)

frogfone said:


> Bill you have hit the nail on the head! I can take or leave plants, as you can probably tell I have not until very recently taken much interest in them. I really see them as a solution to the problem of the BGA.


Well, Sharon, at the risk of being labelled a subversive by this list, I'll suggest that maybe you shouldn't try to develop a beautiful planted discus tank. I'm sure that you could if you worked at it and spent enough, but maybe you can secure your goal without doing those things.

Consider doing these.

1. Go to a no-substrate tank. This will be easier to keep clean.

2. Fix the water chemistry

3. "Plant" the tank with hardy floating plants like water sprite and duckweed.
These will sop up some excess nutrients and add some shade for the fish.

4. Consider getting plants like anubias. They are extremely hardy and can 
be attached to rocks or driftwood, where they will eventually anchor 
themselves. Tropica says that they are good up to about 86 degrees F, 
30 C. 

5. Apparently the fish aren't bothered by the high phosphorous level so 
perhaps you won't have to be, either, after you get the chimistry in 
balance.

6. Do reasonable water changes.

Good luck!

Bill


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## frogfone (Mar 8, 2004)

Shalu 

If we have to so any more water changes I will cry! Every week without fail the tank gets a 30% water change with gravel vac. Filters are cleaned monthly on a rotational basis. We only have 7 adult discus and 40 tetras in the tank so not heavily stocked. At times in the past have carried out 3 x 30% w/c with RO water had absolutely no effect on the BGA! I think adding NO3 is probably the key.

Bill

Not a fan of bare bottomed tanks. Gravel vac regularly. Most of the detritus seems to come from the BGA and dying plants anyway so getting that sorted will help.

Anyone

Is it worth adding DIY CO2 or will this make things worse? Is it better to have low light, slow growth or add some CO2 to help the plants or will it just feed the algae if there isn't enough?

Thanks again for all your help

Sharon


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## random_alias (Jun 28, 2005)

In your case you are better off going with low light and slow growth. If you were running a 10 gallon tank then I would recommend DIY CO2 wholeheartedly. Your tank is just too large to reasonably get effective CO2 levels from DIY CO2. In a 170 gallon tank, the extra maintenance is liekly all you would notice.

DIY CO2 methods tend to give low yields compared to pressurized CO2. These low yields are fine in smaller tanks because the yields fit the water volume. In your case, you would need to run several bottles to a reactor. Not only would this require an extreme amount of maintenance (which you are trying to avoid) but it would also be troublesome to troubleshoot all those connections for leaks. Even if you were willing to undergo the work, your end result would be a CO2 supply that was unpredictable and uncontrollable.


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## shalu (Jan 16, 2003)

Sharon, I agreed it was probably low NO3 in your case. Gregwatson ships internationally so you can try to contact him directly, he is always helpful.


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## frogfone (Mar 8, 2004)

*UPDATE*  

Hi Guys

Story so far...

Carried out TOTAL blackout for 3 days, added KNO3 at 2 1/2 tsp on days 1 and 3. Did the biggest water change we can manage (33%) and good clean both days.

PO4 now between 1 and 3 ppm (nearer1ppm) and NO3 10ppm. Added 1/2tsp Kno3 and KSO4, still waiting on ferts :icon_frow pH 7.5 to 7.7, GH 3, KH 2.4

Added 2L pop bottle CO2 (waste of time really). Plants are releasing a lot of gas though.

Tank looked good until yesterday, BGA is coming back on the sand and around some of the plants.  

What do I need to do to get rid of this horrid stuff????

TIA

Sharon

Pic of tank


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

You are not adding CO2 correct?

Either do it or not.

Pick and then the method can be suggested.

Non CO2 tanks do not get any water changes, Excel or CO2 enriched tanks do.

The Blackout method with KNO3/CO2 works.

It will not really work if you have a non CO2 tank if you keep doing the water changes.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Georgiadawgger (Apr 23, 2004)

Is it just me, or does the tank look fine?!!  

Really nice looking discus you have there. Remember one issue with algae can be OUR OWN perception of what is/what isn't an eye sore. If you can keep it from growing/spreading and regular pruning, cleaning takes care of it, keep doing as you are. If you're just now adjusting your ferts and tinkering with CO2, then it will still take some patience on your part in getting rid of BBA in the long run.


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## frogfone (Mar 8, 2004)

Georgiadawgger - tank does look fine in the pic, that was yesterday! Today it's back with a vengence  The tank looks 1000 times better than it has in months but I am obviously doing something wrong so thought I'd better ask the experts again...We are quite willing to put up with some algae, geez the tank has looked like CRAP for over a year. Guess I'm just dissapointed to see it come back.

plantbrain - CO2 is so insignificant on this tank I doubt it is having much of an effect. Thought it might bring the Ph down but it has had no effect. Can't put anymore bicarb in as the pH was nearing 8.0 (not the best for Discus)!

I hadn't realised that water changes were not required? I take it you mean the weekly 50% w/c? What would you suggest our routine should be? It might be nice not having to be a slave to the twice weekly water change routine for a while...

Thanks again

Sharon


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