# Gsa, gha & bba



## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

I have been battling GHA e for a few months, but with reduced light intensity and changes to fert dosage I am now faced with GSA as well as BBA sadly. I feel this is down to my fert dosing, which I feel like i have never got to the point where I was dosing enough for my tank. Rotala SP Green seems to also be struggling growing now, whenit used to grow like weed in my tank at one point. I am willing to adjust anything to learn how to properly dose my tank to ensure that I can rid my tank of this nasty algae growth. My tank parameters are below along with my co2 dosage and WC schedule. I have two Amano shrimp so I’m not too sure what options I would have to try and remove this? Any help would be appreciated! Thanks 

Finnex 24/7 on for 6 hours a day, at around 70%.
co2 @ drop checker green/lime green (green throughout the day & lime green by the end of the day)
WC / weekly @ 50%

TDS: 254
Phosphate: 2
GH: 5
KH: 3
PH: 6.4
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 20


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## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

That looks like a dark forest green to me. You should be shooting for a much lighter green by the time the lights come on. To prevent your CO2 from going too high by the time the lights go out, just have the CO2 come on a little earlier, but don't increase the amount.

You also should try to trap more air inside the drop checker, so the air bubble is near the opening. This will help for the gas to more easily diffuse into the drop checker. As it is, there isn't much water movement in the space inside the glass, so the newly carbonated water wont diffuse into the gas bubble very easily.


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

jellopuddinpop said:


> That looks like a dark forest green to me. You should be shooting for a much lighter green by the time the lights come on. To prevent your CO2 from going too high by the time the lights go out, just have the CO2 come on a little earlier, but don't increase the amount.
> 
> You also should try to trap more air inside the drop checker, so the air bubble is near the opening. This will help for the gas to more easily diffuse into the drop checker. As it is, there isn't much water movement in the space inside the glass, so the newly carbonated water wont diffuse into the gas bubble very easily.


 Thanks for your tips! The co2 comes on 1 hour before the lights, and by the end it is lime green, should I start the co2 sooner than 1 hour? I will re seat the drop checker  it’s been in there some time, it used to have the air near the bottom, but I guess over time it has filled up. Thanks again.


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## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

There are so many variables in how much CO2 to inject and what times to turn it on, that it's really impossible to give accurate times in a simple forum post. I would start by replacing the drop checker fluid and getting a larger air bubble in there. If it's still dark green when the lights come on, then start the CO2 15 minutes earlier.

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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

jellopuddinpop said:


> There are so many variables in how much CO2 to inject and what times to turn it on, that it's really impossible to give accurate times in a simple forum post. I would start by replacing the drop checker fluid and getting a larger air bubble in there. If it's still dark green when the lights come on, then start the CO2 15 minutes earlier.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


Will do ill take it out and remove the BBA whilst its out of the tank also. Do you think that i should also turn the co2 off sooner as im starting it sooner? i don't want to be gassing my fish out really, also would you say that this could help me with my algae issues im facing?


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

Have you measured your degassed PH and your PH after co2 has been running for a few hours. Most look for a 1.0 drop so if your PH after it sits for a while out of the tank is 7.5 your target should be around 6.5 in the tank with co2 running for a few hours. That would be another way to test to make sure there isn't too much co2.


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## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

Algae (especially BBA) can be caused by fluctuating CO2. My thought is that during your light period, your CO2 level is not constant. Getting the CO2 level up for the start of your photo period will help.

As far as when to turn it off, you would really need to monitor your ph to get some live data on CO2 levels. Make the start time change on a day that you're home and able to watch the tank throughout the day. If you notice your fish gasping, turn off the CO2 and turn on an airstone.

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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

Fluctuating co2 can affect uptake which is the real culprit for algae to develop. How heavily planted is the tank. The effect of good co2 on algae is directly related to how much plant mass you have and how well it's growing. More plant mass, more growth less organics left in tank to decay. Every tank has a threshold before the algae explodes. High light, low plant mass are the most vulnerable. Co2 in itself would only feed algae as well.


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## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

houseofcards said:


> Fluctuating co2 can affect uptake which is the real culprit for algae to develop. How heavily planted is the tank. The effect of good co2 on algae is directly related to how much plant mass you have and how well it's growing. More plant mass, more growth less organics left in tank to decay. Every tank has a threshold before the algae explodes. High light, low plant mass are the most vulnerable. Co2 in itself would only feed algae as well.


Well put. It would be important to see the tank in question. I was assuming heavily planted, but you have a great point that the OP should heed.


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

houseofcards said:


> Have you measured your degassed PH and your PH after co2 has been running for a few hours. Most look for a 1.0 drop so if your PH after it sits for a while out of the tank is 7.5 your target should be around 6.5 in the tank with co2 running for a few hours. That would be another way to test to make sure there isn't too much co2.


I have but not throughout the day, I measured at the start and the end, there was roughly a 1ppm drop in the PH. Hopefully this week I can monitor it an record the PH.



jellopuddinpop said:


> Algae (especially BBA) can be caused by fluctuating CO2. My thought is that during your light period, your CO2 level is not constant. Getting the CO2 level up for the start of your photo period will help.
> 
> As far as when to turn it off, you would really need to monitor your ph to get some live data on CO2 levels. Make the start time change on a day that you're home and able to watch the tank throughout the day. If you notice your fish gasping, turn off the CO2 and turn on an airstone.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


Got it I will record the PH and add the data here once I have it  Do you run an airstone at night when the co2 is not active?



houseofcards said:


> Fluctuating co2 can affect uptake which is the real culprit for algae to develop. How heavily planted is the tank. The effect of good co2 on algae is directly related to how much plant mass you have and how well it's growing. More plant mass, more growth less organics left in tank to decay. Every tank has a threshold before the algae explodes. High light, low plant mass are the most vulnerable. Co2 in itself would only feed algae as well.


The tank has been through quite a few different plants with a lot of them slowly dying away, but some have stuck, and grew nicely. As mentioned in my op my rotala used to grow very fast, but now it's very slow resulting in a thin bush. I will post a full tank picture tomorrow which might help further.


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## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

Ninja_green said:


> Do you run an airstone at night when the co2 is not active?


Nope, but I have an absolute ton of surface agitation and it degasses pretty quickly.

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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

I have attached a FTS so you can see my plant mass in the tank as mentioned above.


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

jellopuddinpop said:


> Nope, but I have an absolute ton of surface agitation and it degasses pretty quickly.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


 Ok that’s understandable, I might try it also as I have quite a bit of surface agitation from the spray bar + powerhead.


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## Surf (Jun 13, 2017)

You don't say what fertilizers you are using. most fertilizers don't have calcium or sulfate which are two critical macro nutrients. If you are dosing all of the other nutrients those two will be in short supply. Adding calcium sulfate to your tank would eliminate this problems.


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

Surf said:


> You don't say what fertilizers you are using. most fertilizers don't have calcium or sulfate which are two critical macro nutrients. If you are dosing all of the other nutrients those two will be in short supply. Adding calcium sulfate to your tank would eliminate this problems.


I am using this kit: Ei Starter Kit - Starter Kits - Dry Chemicals - Fertilisers

I dose roughly 50% of what it recommends, as I was getting very high nitrate numbers at the end of the week, upwards of 40ppm. I don't see calcium sulphate on the ingredients list though so that very well could be the root of my problems as you mentioned.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

Surf said:


> You don't say what fertilizers you are using. most fertilizers don't have calcium or sulfate which are two critical macro nutrients. If you are dosing all of the other nutrients those two will be in short supply. Adding calcium sulfate to your tank would eliminate this problems.


You have stated the same thing in probably 10 other threads whenever someone is looking for help with their plants. You also stated that if you put an airstone in your tank you'll have adequate co2.


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

I didn't turn on the oxygen last night, and by the morning before the co2 switched on the drop checker was deep blue. Looks like I don't need to run the oxygen  With my drop checker now lime green when the lights switch on, what would be the best way to eliminate the GHA and the BBA, I can manually remove it, but it bounces back each time previously.


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## klibs (May 1, 2014)

houseofcards said:


> Fluctuating co2 can affect uptake which is the real culprit for algae to develop. How heavily planted is the tank. The effect of good co2 on algae is directly related to how much plant mass you have and how well it's growing. More plant mass, more growth less organics left in tank to decay. Every tank has a threshold before the algae explodes. High light, low plant mass are the most vulnerable. Co2 in itself would only feed algae as well.


exactly

if you have a bunch of struggling / dying plants it is only going to make matters worse

judging by your full tank shot it looks like your plants are doing very well so this doesn't seem to apply to you. have you considered adding more of all nutrients except N? If you are hitting high N at the end of the week it could be due to livestock/feeding. I don't think your tank falls into 'dose less than EI' category. Honestly though if you grew out those stems in the back and had some really thick bushes that hung more over the rock with algae I don't think you would have any issues. Huge groups of healthy stems do a really good job at preventing algae.

you could also consider doing a few back to back water changes over the course of a day to 'reset' your tank nutrients entirely. i often do this when i see problems I don't understand

also you don't need to run an airstone. I also have good surface agitation (skimmer) on my tank that uses CO2 so it gasses off completely. even without a skimmer you should still not need an airstone. once CO2 is adjusted properly for your tank you shouldn't worry about any issues with fish struggling


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

klibs said:


> exactly
> 
> if you have a bunch of struggling / dying plants it is only going to make matters worse
> 
> ...


 Thanks for the reply, In regards to the plants the Monte Carlo grows great!, but all the other plants grow a lot slower, with plants like the Rotala SP Green struggling further down the stem. The Rotala Rotundifolia browns on the tips with holes on the leaves, I will try and get a shot of these tomorrow for you. I did mix a new bottle of macro with less N so I wouldn't hit high amounts by the end of the week, this was successful in lowering the nitrate amount by the end of the week, but I was still facing the poor growth from some plants, and the algae sadly.

I did used to have the Rotala SP Green very bushy, but after a trimming the plant deteriorated massively, which very well could have caused the algae to kick in. The back to back water changes sound like a good plan to reset my tank though!

Thanks for the confirmation, after the second day running without the air stone all fish/ shrimp are doing fine, glad I can remove it as it was quite noisy when it kicked in


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## vijay_06 (Apr 11, 2017)

May I ask what is the substrate in the tank?


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

vijay_06 said:


> May I ask what is the substrate in the tank?


I used ADA Aqua Soil powder Amazonia.


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

This is what the Rotala rotundifolia looks like. The Rotala sp Green is not Browning like this, but is just growing slowly instead. The Pogostemon erectus is growing but again growth is slow, and older leaves dying with GHA growing on them. I presume this is a deficiency issue of some sort?

I have attached a picture to show the Rotala rotundifolia growth.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

Usually with ADA Aqua Soil based setups the only thing I add in the 1st 6 months is K and Micros. How old is the tank. I setup most of my tanks with AS and EI-dosing. I dose K separately in addition to what's in the KNO3, but I know alot of peopled don't. 

From the pic it looks like you have pretty good plant mass, I would up the dry dosing and kept up with water changes. It's never been proven that the dosing of the dry salts causes algae. I also dose on the high-end just to be sure, but I also always do the water changes weekly to keep things in range.


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

houseofcards said:


> Usually with ADA Aqua Soil based setups the only thing I add in the 1st 6 months is K and Micros. How old is the tank. I setup most of my tanks with AS and EI-dosing. I dose K separately in addition to what's in the KNO3, but I know alot of peopled don't.
> 
> From the pic it looks like you have pretty good plant mass, I would up the dry dosing and kept up with water changes. It's never been proven that the dosing of the dry salts causes algae. I also dose on the high-end just to be sure, but I also always do the water changes weekly to keep things in range.


 I would say the tank is just under a year old roughly. When you say up the dry dosing, I am currently dosing liquid, I’m not sure if that makes any difference between the two dosing methods, but should I up the macro/ micro or both? I will keep an eye on my parameters once I start dosing more, thanks.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

Ninja_green said:


> I would say the tank is just under a year old roughly. When you say up the dry dosing, I am currently dosing liquid, I’m not sure if that makes any difference between the two dosing methods, but should I up the macro/ micro or both? I will keep an eye on my parameters once I start dosing more, thanks.


O.K. so a year old, definitely dose everything toward the high-end range of EI. Yes, doesn't matter if liquid or dry I thought you were dosing dry so I used that term. I've never gone wrong by dosing high-end and religiously doing the water changes. This of course assumes good light and co2. BTW If you have a light that can be dimmed, etc. All you need is around 2 hours of strong light even for high-light demanding plants. The rest can be a dimmer viewing light. This also helps keep algae away. If you can't dim then I would just run lights for around 4 hours and slowly build it up once the problem goes away.


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

houseofcards said:


> O.K. so a year old, definitely dose everything toward the high-end range of EI. Yes, doesn't matter if liquid or dry I thought you were dosing dry so I used that term. I've never gone wrong by dosing high-end and religiously doing the water changes. This of course assumes good light and co2. BTW If you have a light that can be dimmed, etc. All you need is around 2 hours of strong light even for high-light demanding plants. The rest can be a dimmer viewing light. This also helps keep algae away. If you can't dim then I would just run lights for around 4 hours and slowly build it up once the problem goes away.


 Co2 is now lime green by the start of the photoperiod after timing adjustment, so i feel like the co2 is at a good level. The light is a Finnex Planted + 24/7, I have it dimmed to about 75%, and it runs for 6 hours. Would you suggest lowering the duration or brightness?


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

within my tank. The hair alage after scrubbing is growing, but alot slower than it was before. I slightly increased the EI dosage, and have been doing two water changes per week to try and help with the organic buildup. I also added some purigen to the filter. I would just like to try and see a reduction in growth from the BGA, I would use peroxide or Excel, but last time i did my Monte carlo started dying, which i am trying to avoid. Hope someone can make some suggestions to help with this battle.

My Rotala is also growing very small leaves at the bottom of the stem, but then it looks fine towards the portion of the tank, is this due to lack of light? I have attached pictures to show the BGA/GHA and also the Rotala small leaf growth.


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