# algae strangling Monte Carlo



## mrbhala (Sep 13, 2018)

Brown algae may have multiple reasons to jump in like driftwood, over nutrition, iron, lighting. I tried shadowing and less feeding etc. Finally success with cherry shrimps and reducing nutrients. People also suggested me for nerite snails for this. Good luck.


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## 64D-1701 (Apr 7, 2018)

I think your problem can be summarized as too much light and missing ferts. You're getting a good PH drop with CO2, so that's probably not the deficiency. Your drop checker looks bright yellow, so hopefully your fish aren't in distress or gasping. It looks like there are only a few fish in there, so the high nitrates are probably from the all-in-one fert you were dosing. Either that, nitrates in your tap water, or insufficient water changes.

For the algae, the first thing I'd do is reduce the lighting to six hours. You can gradually increase it again once the algae stops and your ferts are dialed in.

I use dry ferts, so I'm not an expert on your liquids, but you might be missing some key things. Flourish is basically micros with a tiny bit of macros. You're running substantial light with CO2 and dosing mostly micros, so you probably have a macro (N/P/K) deficiency. Your test results say you have enough nitrogen (N) in the form of nitrates (NO3), but based on your dosing, I doubt you're providing enough phosphorous (P) and/or potassium (K). I recommend dosing the macros P & K together every other day. Using the micro ferts you already have, Flourish should be dosed twice/week on non-macro days, and iron should be dosed on every non-macro day:

Day 1: 50% water change, then P & K
Day 2: Flourish & iron
Day 3: P & K
Day 4: iron
Day 5: P & K
Day 6: Flourish & iron
Day 7: nothing
* Then repeat cycle starting with day one

You'll need to determine the appropriate dosing amounts based on the instructions on your bottles. You can tweak it as needed, if you see deficiencies. This is basically a modified Estimative Index (EI) approach using the ferts you have now. Flourish isn't ideal as a micro source since it also contains some macros. You could use Flourish Trace instead, in which case it should also be added to Day 4. It's really easier and cheaper if you just buy the dry ferts instead of the pre-mixed solutions. They will allow you to adjust macros individually. I predict that your nitrates will start to drop if you follow the plan above. Keep testing nitrates, and if they drop below about 20ppm, you'll need to start adding N on days 1/3/5. If nitrates drop very low and you don't supplement N, you'll be inducing a new macro deficiency.

If you decide to switch to dry ferts, it will save a ton of money. These are the ones I use: Estimative Index | Aquarium Fertilizer | Green Leaf Aquariums & Iron Chelate | Planted Aquarium Fertilizer | GLA Ferts. The macros are KNO3 (N), KH2PO4 (P), K2SO4 (K), and the micros are CSM+B and DTPA Iron.

For your 21L tank, this would be a good place to start with dry dosing:

Day 1: 50% water change, then 1/32 tsp KNO3, 1/64 tsp KH2PO4, 1/32 tsp K2SO4
Day 2: 1/64 tsp CSM+B, 1/64 iron
Day 3: 1/32 tsp KNO3, 1/64 tsp KH2PO4, 1/32 tsp K2SO4
Day 4: 1/64 tsp CSM+B, 1/64 iron
Day 5: 1/32 tsp KNO3, 1/64 tsp KH2PO4, 1/32 tsp K2SO4
Day 6: 1/64 tsp CSM+B, 1/64 iron
Day 7: nothing

If the nitrates are higher than desired using that plan, decrease KNO3 (N). KNO3, however, also includes some potassium (K), so I would then add some more K2SO4 to compensate for the K you lost by reducing KNO3.

In any case, just make sure you dose more than enough of everything and you aren't seeing deficiencies. The 50% weekly water change will clear out the excess. The only fert I test for is N, using the nitrate test, because it's the only one at these dosing amounts that may harm livestock in excess.


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## Richo (Jan 24, 2015)

Thank you both for your feedback and help! It was starting to really get under my skin. I do have the co2 up rather high but the fish and shrimp don't look stressed or ever come close to the surface gasping for air so I left it (also the monte carlo started pearling at this level). Do you recommend cutting it back to 1 - 1.5 bps? I think the high ferts were coming from the all in one fert and decaying plant matter found in the filter. They are back down to 20-30ppm. My water is so soft with no nitrates and KH 1-3 / GH 0-2 from the tap (I use equilibrium to get GH up to 6-7).

I will cut the lights back to 6 hours now till all the diatoms are gone. I will seriously start look into dry ferts shortly if it's cheaper and easier to manage. Thank you for the daily schedule as well, I found that trying to sort this out was the most confusing part, so I will follow this and see how everything goes. According to the bottles it's about 0.5ml of most of the ferts... Such a small amount.

I have attached a picture of the all-in-one fert to show what it contained. Do you think I should just completely a ditch this and go with the Seachem range till I get into dry ferts?

https://imageshack.com/a/img923/3015/jc4auU.jpg

Finally, I was going to fix a couple of hard scape decisions as it looks crappy, especially compared to what it was this weekend so I will cut away some of the badly effected areas again and let it just go to it's think. Here is hoping what I can get it back to (minus to dragon stone that was turning to wet clay in areas) https://imageshack.com/a/img922/7653/9fVSYq.jpg.


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## 64D-1701 (Apr 7, 2018)

I really like the way your tank looked in the "before" picture. Very nice. The new scape looks nice too, if not for the dead spots. Mine isn't perfect, but I've learned a lot, and it's growing a nice Monte Carlo carpet now. It seems like there is always more to learn.

I wouldn't adjust the CO2 if your livestock are behaving normally. It won't hurt your plants. I agree that your high nitrates were probably coming from that all-in-one fert. I would ditch that. Something like that might work for rare doses in low light without CO2, but your setup needs more flexibility and precision. The Seachem products will be fine until you get dry ferts. They're just dry ferts pre-mixed in a solution, so you're basically paying for water. Based on what you said you currently dose, you'll also need to get a bottle of their Phosphorous (and probably Nitrogen, since your nitrates will probably continue to drop). Like I said, I can't tell you the proper liquid amounts you need to dose with those products. Just keep in mind that Flourish Comprehensive has some N/P/K in it. Flourish Trace doesn't, but it also doesn't have all the micros that Flourish Comprehensive has. If you're sticking with Seachem for now, I'd get a bottle of Trace and dose it on Day 4. Or maybe switch the two and dose Comprehensive once a week and Trace twice. You'll have to play with it.

Once you get dry ferts, just get some tiny measuring spoons and you'll be good to go. I put some aquarium water in a bottle each day, add my daily ferts, shake it up, and dump the water back into the aquarium. You can also just spoon the ferts directly into the aquarium, but I think the bottle method is better for getting everything dissolved into the water column. Some people make bigger pre-mixed bottles and dose from them for weeks at a time, but that introduces a whole other math problem, plus you have to worry about fungus growing in the bottles and nutrients losing effectiveness over time, so I just do a daily bottle mix.

This is the calculator I used to get your dry dosing amounts: https://rotalabutterfly.com/nutrient-calculator.php. You just enter your tank volume, select "DIY," then the specific fertilizer, then "dry dosing" and "estimative index." Your tank is so small that some of the amounts come out to less than 1/64 tsp, but overdosing is the general idea behind EI, so it should be fine. Just monitor nitrates. Once everything is established, you can test nitrates once a week right before your water change to be sure you're maintaining good levels.

I will say the dry DTPA iron may color your water brownish/orange. If it does, you can decrease the amount. I also recommend supplementing with iron gluconate, which is the same thing as Seachem Iron. For your small tank size, it may be worth the small cost to just use the Seachem product for this one fert, but you can also buy iron gluconate dry. I've had to learn more about iron recently, because I developed a deficiency in my tank. Iron gluconate is very easy for plants to consume, but it doesn't last long in the water. 
CSM+B, the dry micro mix, contains EDTA iron. The plants can use it more in a PH near 6, but it becomes increasingly less available as PH increases above that. But it does last longer in the water than iron gluconate. DTPA iron is available for plants to consume at higher PH levels and lasts a long time. But plants have to work harder to use EDTA and DTPA iron. So the best approach seems to be a mix of all three to get the benefits of each. If you use all three, start with a ratio of 4:1:1 for CSM+B : DTPA : gluconate.

Hopefully all of this will be helpful. Whatever approach you take, your plants need appropriate macros & micros, which seems to be the root of your problems.


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