# Who's keeping shrimp in a high tech tank?



## Nubster (Aug 9, 2011)

I have. Didn't seem to be much issue. I gassed them (RCS) once when I was getting used to the setup. After, it was business as usual.


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## pejerrey (Dec 5, 2011)

I don't know if you would consider this high tech:


















40-50 PAR at substrate level, Dosing 1/6 pps pro and co2 24/7.

CRS & CBS SS+ , OEBTs and blue velvets.










The secret? Just a simple method:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=183530

In the first post there is also a couple of other examples of other hobbyists.

Like youjettisonme with his "PRL in the mist" tank:










As far as I know he is using pressurized co2 24/7 and Ada ferts.

Overall Seems like shrimp breed a bit more without pressurized co2


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## frrok (May 22, 2011)

My mini-m is high tech. EI and co2 at about 2.5 bps. I'm definitely noticing that my females have not been berried in a few months. But they seem happy otherwise.


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## Qwedfg (Mar 7, 2012)

Wow that is a lot of co2. I have hc and dhg and I use about 1 bubble per 8 seconds and my hc pearls all day. My shrimp don't even bat an eye at this co2 level.


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## AUvet14 (Apr 11, 2011)

I'm keeping Amanos in a 30 gal at around 2bps. Doesn't seem to be a problem. I slowly acclimated them to the CO2 levels over the course of a week, starting with CO2 off, then slowly increasing the bubble rate.


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## Rainer (Jan 30, 2011)

Since some are succeeding with shrimp in EI, CO2 tanks, maybe someone can tell me what I'm doing wrong? 

Ghost shrimp are tough little guys, aren't they?


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## jmrmotorhead (Sep 27, 2011)

Huh. I have amanos in my high tech 30g. EI, co2 upwards of 35ppm.. Wonder if your dosing is off for ferts? When I was dosing my shrimp tank based on ei, I found that the shrimp would never berry, and I lost about two a month. I stopped dosing and switched plants to moss and other low need plants, and have had berried shrimp ever since!

Matt


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## Qwedfg (Mar 7, 2012)

If you are killing ghost and amano shrimp something is terribly wrong. I seriously doubt its c02 especially since you run an airstone. I have read posts of people saying they have kept amanos unknowingly at extremely high co2 levels only to find out after adding fish and they start gasping.


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## Rony11 (Jan 21, 2012)

I keep Amano's in 18 gallon hi-tech along with live bearers n snails. 
I have berried amano's but the larvae do no survive. 
I fertillize thrice a week micro n macro, CO2 two bubbles per second - CO2 (solenoid regulator) is turned off along with the aquarium lights, water changes RO 50% once a week add minerals check TDS before add new water (no sudden changes in water parameters). My temp.is constant 24 degrees - chiller coz its summer here 32-34 degrees in shade. BTW the new water added is also the same temp.as the tank no sudden temp.changes. I test the water once in 2 weeks to check levels of Nitrate, PH,GH,KH, Phosphate and have a reliable TDS meter. Clean external filter once in 2 months.
I use two diff.thermometers just in case 1.Regular n simple glass thermometers 2. Digital (external) thermometer to check temparture in past I had submersible thermometer and it went haywire within a month. 

In short try as much as possible to keep water parameters stable, avoid making sudden changes, due to fertilizers some have small amounts of copper I have Cuprisorb in my external filter which I change every 3 months.


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## pejerrey (Dec 5, 2011)

RO water?


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## Rony11 (Jan 21, 2012)

pejerrey said:


> RO water?


RO - Reverse Osmosis


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## pejerrey (Dec 5, 2011)

Rony11 said:


> RO - Reverse Osmosis


I know, I'm just lazy to write:

Why don't you try RO water?


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## Rony11 (Jan 21, 2012)

Personal experience never add shrimps and start adding CO2 or reduce Co2 coz u will cause a PH swing which will surely kill the shrimps. Keep the tank stable after u add shrimps do not make any changes. My tank CO2 goes off at night buy I have a PH controller also my tank is well aerated, I'm using a stronger external filter which aerates the tank water at night.
Many hobbyists claim that RCS, yellow, rilis, CRS, Tigers, etc do not reproduce as often as they do in non CO2 tanks. 
It is possible to add CO2 during cycling period but other things like light w/g, water changes, fertilizers should be taken into consideration. After tank is cycled slowly reduce the CO2, Lights w/g and fertilizing only when the tank is stable add live stock.


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

i keep my RCS in a pretty high CO2 environment and they do fine.
i am going to try keeping cards in a high tech in a little bit once i set the tank up.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Since it PFRs youre talking about I would automatically assume it has to do with your airstone and nightly parameter changes. I run an insane amout of Co2 so thats not it. I also dose ferts heavey so thats not it. I would try some carbon in your filter and stop off gassing at night. I never really saw any positive results come from it. If you think about it, the answer seems to lie in what you said about lowering the Co2 for acclimation to introduce the shrimp initially. Which is correct. But once you get them used to a higher level of Co2, you are shooting yourself in the foot and reacclimating them every night that you off gas.


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## Rainer (Jan 30, 2011)

Air stone - that seems part of the trade-off with EI. Run your CO2 as high as you can up to the point the fauna become stressed, then back off slightly. In my case, the shrimp become very active near the end of the CO2 period, swimming all around the tank, horizontally and vertically. IME, this is a predecessor to CO2 toxicity so I added the air stone.

Carbon in the filter - what does this do? 

RO water - using EI, this would mean changing out 15g/week in addition to the initial 31g (29g+ filter). Logistically that's prohibitive.


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## chunkychun (Apr 6, 2012)

Are your other water parameters okay? when I was EI dosing, my nitrates were sky high and I had some shrimp deaths then.


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## Rainer (Jan 30, 2011)

Today's results - last KNO3 dose was Thursday, micros on Friday - were:

NO³ - 20ppm (test strip)
NO² - 0.5 ppm (test strip)

DGH - 10 (test kit)
DKH - 9
PH - 6.4 (light green despite 8 hrs of air stone)

Tap conditions currently:
DGH - 7 (down from 8-9 last year)
DKH - 6 (down from 7)
PH - 7.6 (stable)

Conditions were stable after converting to Eco-complete last year. I added two handfuls last month to cover a low spot but didn't think to test parameters afterward.


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## pejerrey (Dec 5, 2011)

Oh well, you should be ZERO NO2 and NH4(ammonia). That is maybe why.

That said, test strips are known to be inaccurate.

I dose my 30 gal planted shrimp tank and use co2. I don't use an airstone that would de-gas too much. I point my spray bar I the surface from a couple of inches below.

See how I do it here:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=183530

I was asking about RO water because there is a way to change less water using RO/DI for top offs and tap for details in the first post from the link I provided.

I change water every 6months, 5 gallons at the time several times to bring the TDS from 200 to 150.


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## Rainer (Jan 30, 2011)

It's been well planted for 18 months now and the current filter has been in place for around six months, so everything should be well established. I don't think I've seen a zero reading ever for NO².

I'm using a lily pipe on this tank instead of a spray bar if that makes a difference.

I'll reread your earlier post - thanks for the suggestions.


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## chunkychun (Apr 6, 2012)

seriously I would get real nitrate/ nitrite kit. The strips are so inaccurate And with strip I had similar readings but no nitrite. when I checked my nitrate with a kit, it was sky high.


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## pejerrey (Dec 5, 2011)

chunkychun said:


> seriously I would get real nitrate/ nitrite kit. The strips are so inaccurate And with strip I had similar readings but no nitrite. when I checked my nitrate with a kit, it was sky high.


Agreed


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## Rainer (Jan 30, 2011)

Ammonia - 0.25 ppm
Nitrite - 0 ppm
Nitrate - 5 ppm*

*Lost one bulb Monday night, so I held off dosing KNO³ yesterday.


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## pejerrey (Dec 5, 2011)

Well, again, ammonia should be zero.

Something is wrong, maybe your filtration system? Too much food?

Edit:
Afterthought... Are you using prime water conditioner?


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## Rainer (Jan 30, 2011)

A tetra has been missing for a few days.


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## Rainer (Jan 30, 2011)

Time to test a few assumptions I've picked up sifting through the forums and elsewhere:

- Ghost shrimp, like RCS, are pretty much bulletproof, maybe more so. That excludes shrimp kryptonite, copper, and high levels of ammonia.

- Vacuuming is unnecessary in a planted tank. I do regardless but I find this strange.

- Canister filters are low maintenance; clean when flow begins to decrease noticeably.


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## pejerrey (Dec 5, 2011)

Maybe the reading of ammo is because of prime water conditioner... Is that what are you using as a water conditioner?

I would stop vacuuming the substrate.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Are you vacuuming/cleaning your substrate now? If so, that's potentially stirring things up.

Usually unnecessary in a planted tank and especially frowned upon by most shrimpers.



Rainer said:


> - Vacuuming is unnecessary in a planted tank. I do regardless but I find this strange.


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## Rainer (Jan 30, 2011)

Uneaten food, dead red root floaters, gunk caught in the DHG belem - besides looking messy, aren't they potential sources of ammonia as they rot? 

Conditioner - Tetra brand, I think, in a yellow container. Applied liberally.


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

A real cycle would be able to handle the rotting..

Did you ever properly cycle the tank or just jump right into it?


From MABJ's iPhone
2G Fluval Spec ~ fauna and flora in the works!


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## Rainer (Jan 30, 2011)

The tank is almost two years old.


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

Rainer said:


> The tank is almost two years old.


But did you ever do a proper cycle? If you didn't, there's a chance it never established itself. 

I sometimes get small spikes, but I'm running a sump. It happens with sumps


From MABJ's iPhone
2G Fluval Spec ~ fauna and flora in the works!


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## Rainer (Jan 30, 2011)

Yes, way back when. The substrate has been changed out twice since and the filter replaced twice on other occasions.


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## MABJ (Mar 30, 2012)

Rainer said:


> Yes, way back when. The substrate has been changed out twice since and the filter replaced twice on other occasions.


I doubt you lost your cycle... I guess it depends on how you did those things. 

Shrimp are a lot more sensitive to the ammonia and nitrites, so do water changes until they're gone.


From MABJ's iPhone
2G Fluval Spec ~ fauna and flora in the works!


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## Rainer (Jan 30, 2011)

Another aspect of this strange tank: vals don't survive long. I used to find their blades broken halfway up; now they disintegrate at the substrate. Added a beautiful specimen a couple of months ago; it was gone within a few weeks, despite being grown in local tap water.

Blyxa does well enough - I find only the occasional blade.

Cyperus is somewhere in between, hanging on, too close to tell. Just found another mature blade floating. 

Add in the mystery deaths of snails (previously; the current ones are fine) and shrimp, and it's simply odd.


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## pejerrey (Dec 5, 2011)

I've been told several times to use only seachem prime water conditioner. 

Leftover food? Feed less!


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Are you dosing Excel, by chance?



Rainer said:


> Another aspect of this strange tank: vals don't survive long. I used to find their blades broken halfway up; now they disintegrate at the substrate. Added a beautiful specimen a couple of months ago; it was gone within a few weeks, despite being grown in local tap water.
> 
> Blyxa does well enough - I find only the occasional blade.
> 
> ...


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## Rainer (Jan 30, 2011)

No Excel in that tank aside from rare doses for BBA. It doesn't seem to be correlated to the val die-off: the blades don't melt; they break off.

I don't use GH Booster so it's possible there's a magnesium deficiency despite the relatively hard water. There's a thread in the fertilizer forum.


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## Rainer (Jan 30, 2011)

Update - ran the numbers after today's 50%+ WC and found a nasty surprise:

GH 8
KH 7
NH 0
NO2 0
NO3 80-160

I'm skipping the KNO3 dosing today and monitoring daily. I'm keeping up with the KH2PO4 and K2SO4 in the meantime and may supplement liquid K if necessary.

What should my target nitrate level be at the end of micros day (day after usual KNO3 dosing)?


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## pejerrey (Dec 5, 2011)

Tom Barr and others have reported keeping cardinias in very high levels of no3. So I'm not surprised the shrimp are fine.

What is your TDS by the way?


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## chunkychun (Apr 6, 2012)

So it was the stripes! I did 10-20% water change every other day for a week or so until it was around 10 -20ppm . Still working out when I should dose nitrate if ever


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## Rainer (Jan 30, 2011)

Yes, the strips plus I must have done that initial test with the drops incorrectly too. I'll see how long it takes the tank to burn off the nitrates since there aren't any shrimp survivors there.

I need to pick up a TDS meter soon if I'm going to move beyond Neos. Looks like they start around $20 and go beyond $50. Hopefully the cheap ones will do the job.


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## pejerrey (Dec 5, 2011)

I would consider treating your tank with something in case the deaths were a bacterial infection. Just a thought.

Do some good research tho.


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## chunkychun (Apr 6, 2012)

Check eBay for TDs like $10


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## Rainer (Jan 30, 2011)

TDS is 292 before today's dosing. Tap is 140.

NO3 is 40 despite no KNO3 being added since last Friday and a 50%+ WC on Sunday. Today is micros, so none today either.


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## Rainer (Jan 30, 2011)

After WC, TDS is 201, a change of 91 ppm since 10/3. There was no KNO3 dosing at all this week. Even after today's 50% WC, NO3 level was 10 ppm pre-dose.

I'm attempting to keep nitrate levels relatively stable by dosing just enough to have 5-10 ppm at the end of the day after the last dose.

I wish I could dose as lean on the other fertilizers to minimize TDS readings but I lack test kits for those, other than the TDS meter.

I've also contacted a vendor who stocks/ed prefilters to be used as purigen reactors. So far no response.


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## pejerrey (Dec 5, 2011)

What was the TDS before the wc?


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## Rainer (Jan 30, 2011)

286 on Friday. 

I've also switched to Prime.


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## Rainer (Jan 30, 2011)

TDS prior to today's WC was 261. I dosed 1/16 tsp KNO3 once this week and still had 30-40 ppm nitrate on Friday evening. Mg was dosed at 1/3 the suggested dosage.

I would start reducing the other fertilizers but the tank is turning into an algae farm since I switched out the old bulbs. I have BBA, dust algae, possible beginning staghorn, and what may be BGA where the substrate meets the glass.

It seems I have no choice but to treat this as a fish only tank, crank the CO2 past shrimp survival levels, and ride it out.

It's very frustrating. If Hoppy's calculations are correct, PAR level is only 80 and then only for four hours/day, plus two hours of half that.


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## Rainer (Jan 30, 2011)

Is high PO4 toxic to inverts? New kit shows 10+ ppm.


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## pejerrey (Dec 5, 2011)

Rainer said:


> Is high PO4 toxic to inverts? New kit shows 10+ ppm.


I don't think so, this question is been asked before. Did you check with the search engine?


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## Rainer (Jan 30, 2011)

A quick scan from Tapatalk shows nothing specifically about shrimp or other inverts. Plants and fish should be okay.


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