# 75 gallon low tech new tank ... am I on the right track?



## HolyAngel (Oct 18, 2010)

Hey

I'll try and give ya some info that i've learned here and from my tanks since the Experts on this forum haven't replied yet ^^

You're tank sounds good overall, however im not sure about a couple things here: 

first the lighting, a single t8 tube 21" from the substrate i don't believe even begins to qualify as low light.. And that could have something to do with the leaves starting to melt.. Not positive here, but thats what i've read/gathered/learned and what the stickies in the lighting forum say..

Temp looks good and I like that you thought about and grabbed a UV sterilizer, I love mine. I did realize tho that with the canister filter/sterilizer, my water stays no lower than 72 WITHOUT a heater, which is perfectly fine for a tropical planted tank. Some plants and fish don't like 80+ degree water.. Just a thought here. There's also been some people who's heaters have exploded in there tank, or cracked and leaked, and = loss of entire tank. I'm not risking it since I don't have to, but my house stays around ~70 all the time so it all works for me, you may or may not be able to.

Considering the fish load and how much you're feeding them and the time the tank has been up, I would think you should be seeing SOME form of ammonia/nitrite/nitrate by now.. I went through this problem for the first 2 months of my 29 gallon and finally realized that I wasn't following the directions SPECIFICALLY for EACH test(they differ on how to do them in the API kit) and I actually had tons of Nitrates i didn't see before that led to an algea problem because i wasn't shaking the second testing bottle for 30 sec prior to using it, and then only shaking the beaker for 5 seconds instead of a minute like it's suppose to be, and then waiting 5 minutes for the color to show. <- thats for the nitrate test only.

As for your questions:

1) As far as I know and have seen, Root Tabs ALWAYS help every plant. And they shouldn't ever foul up the water unless you're pulling up the plants the tabs are on top of.

2) Water change if you get ammonia/nitrite spikes and have fish in the tank, otherwise yeah you're probably good ^^

3) I'm up to a spray bar, a powerhead, and a koralia nano in my planted 29 now and it's definitely helping. Extra flow is always good for the plants and tank to keep it clean and making sure all the plants are getting all the nutrients.

4) You can add the discus pair after the tank has fully cycled, no more ammonia/nitrite and just nitrates which should take anywhere between 2-3 weeks-2 months depending on if you clean you're canister filter in between there. I believe people say wait 2-3 months for the plants to establish (aka get firmly rooted in the substrate) so it'll be harder for the discus to rip them up out of the substrate.. so it's up to you on when to add, but yeah, minimum tank = cycled first! 

5) not really sure, looks good to me but yeah, lighting is a thing to look at, not sure on ferts, i'm sure a micronutrient solution would help, like flourish comprehensive or csm+b..

Hope that helps a bit, and yeah, see what some other people say, i'm sure Hoppy+others will chime in soon with some good advice ^^


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I think your setup sounds like a great start.

I'd probably add another light fixture- something like a dual bulb Coralife T5NO fixture on for 4-6 hours a day in addition to your T8s should give you more plant growth.

But yes, you'll need to start fertilizing, especially once you get the discus and start up the big weekly water changes. Root tabs are easy and like HolyAngel said, shouldn't pollute your water as long as you keep them down in the substrate.

I'd personally put another filter on the tank to boost both filtration and flow (especially since you're adding relatively large, messy fish like discus), but a cheaper alternative would be a powerhead, and you can also boost filtration by putting a sponge prefilter on the powerhead.

2-3 months sound like a reasonable timeframe to wait before adding your discus. You could always do it sooner as long as you keep a very close eye on water parameters, however.


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## x2h (Dec 23, 2008)

thanks so much for the quick responses. looks like i have a few things to do: 

add root tabs under the vals etc.
increase lighting a bit.
increase water flow: i have a powerhead and I will pop it in there. i am also going to add a prefilter in the overflow just so that it looks nicer than on the powerhead. 


@HolyAngel: i did shake the #2 bottle for Nitrate test very well right before testing, since I am aware of the potential issue from reading the forum posts. thanks for reminding me again.

Cheers!


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## x2h (Dec 23, 2008)

well today i did another water test, everything reads the same except that the NO3 (Nitrate) is around 2 ppm. is that a good sign? I also noticed that on the few rocks in the middle where lighting is the most intensive, there are hair algae developing. also on a couple wendtii "red" leaves there are hair algae developing, but the wendtii "bronze" look wonderful.


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## HolyAngel (Oct 18, 2010)

yay for nitrates! thats means you're tank just cycled or is at least in the process of finishing getting cycled 

What kind of light are you using again? was it just 1 or 2 t8's or..? and did you already change the lighting since the first post and now you have hair algae? or has it been the same this whole time and you noticed the hair algae today? it's usually from increased lighting and/or a nutrient imbalance.. but i suppose it's hard to say.. I know in my high light tank, co2/excel and properly dosing ferts keeps it at bay pretty well.. but thats a bit or a different story comparitively..


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Have you checked your nitrites? You need both your ammonia and nitrites to bottom out to know your tank has finished cycling.

The presence of nitrates means that you have at least SOME nitrite-fixing bacteria going, but won't know for sure if the colony is sufficent to start adding fish without checking those levels.


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## x2h (Dec 23, 2008)

@both HolyAngle and Laura: I did test NH3/NH4 and NO2 (Nitrite) and Nitrate (NO3), and the reading now is that NH3/NH4 = 0 ppm and NO2 = 0 ppm and NO3 = 2 ppm. When I looked at the color of the NO2 test tube, i did realize that the color at the previous NO2 reading a few days ago is a little deeper than it is now, so the previous NO2 level is not 0 ppm, but maybe 0.25 ppm or less. Now it's 0 ppm for sure. I heard that in a normal cycling the nitrite will first be 0 and then go up and then down, at the same time the nitrate will increase. If that's the case, it all makes sense now.

@HolyAngle: the hair algae is there now even before I add more lights. I haven't changed light conditions. Currently I have 40 W T8 with aluminum refelctor (one tube). I plan to add a twin tube (18wx2) T5NO for 3 hours/day, so for those three hours both the T8 and the T5s will be working. I am a little afraid that light level is too strong and would encourage algae. 

I also will add a powerhead tonight to increase water flow, and add prefilters in the overflow. That's it for now, unless the hair algae is out of control.

Root tabs: I found a pack of root tabs (Seachem Fluorish Roo Tabs) that I bought a year ago but never used. From what it says, it contains root promoting minerals such as K, Ca, Fe, P2O5, Mg, etc, which the Eco-Complete also claims to have. Since my plants are already in Eco-Complete, I feel that I am double dosing it if I add the root tabs. Do you use a different kind?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Yes, during a normal cycle you'll get an ammonia spike, followed by a nitrite spike, and the nitrates will slowly rise following the nitrite spike.

Sounds to me like your cycle is done. Since you did a fish-in cycle, I'd probably do a big water change (50% or so) and wait about another week before adding any more fish. Stock slowly, to give the N-bacteria colonies time to grow to accomodate the increasing bioload.

Algae is par for the course with new tank setups. I personally keep a bottle of Excel handy for the usual hair/staghorn/BGA algaes that often crop up after a new startup or a big rescape. Just dosing for a few days usually knocks those out.

Eco Complete does not contain a full complement of all the nutrients that plants need, though it does contain some, and the plants also can obtain more from fish waste and respiration. Planted tanks are all about balance, however, and that's the tricky part. Under low light, plants do not grow as quickly so their nutrient needs are not as great. Chances are better that they may be able to obtain everything they need without fert dosing. As lighting increases and plant mass increases, they require more and more nutrients- and their need for supplemental fertilization is more likely.

I'd go ahead and add the root tabs, personally. Especially since you already have them. They can't hurt, but rather, you increase the liklihood of avoiding nutrient deficiencies in your plants.


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## x2h (Dec 23, 2008)

ok last night i put root tabs under some plants and also increased lighting a bit.

Powerhead: i have two of those, one rated at 295 gph, one at 95 gph. which one is better for this 75 g tank? I tried the 295 gph last night, this morning a rummynose tetra ends up dying (it's not dead yet but I am sure it's getting there). it was fine last night. could it be the flow is too strong?


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

way too much flow if it's blowing your fish around
I like to see gentle movement of the plants but nothing folding over. Angels are my primary species so general movement but not huge flow is my goal.

Edit: Seachem Flourish Tabs are mostly mineral not much NPK, Root Medic Comp. would be a better choice.(imo)


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Unless the tetra somehow managed to physically get stuck in the powerhead I doubt the two are related.

Rummies usually love current.


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## x2h (Dec 23, 2008)

hmmm...I came home tonight and found that I lost another rummynose tetra. it's a mystery to me. i can't even find their bodies. probably stuck in the filter. 

I tried the smaller powerhead rated at 95 pgh, it's current is way too small in the 75 g tank. maybe i need something in between.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

How long have you had the Rummies?


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## x2h (Dec 23, 2008)

lauraleellbp said:


> How long have you had the Rummies?


i had them for about a week or a little longer now...


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

You didn't quarantine them before adding them to your tank?

Have you inspected them very carefully for ich and fungus? Rummies are very prone to disease/infections, and it can be very hard to spot those against their silver bodies...

Since you've had them such a short time, acclimation issues and/or pathogens are much more likely than them having issues with the flow in your tank.

Since you did a fish-in cycle, chances are also very good that your fish are succumbing to health issues related to their exposure to ammonia and nitrites.


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## x2h (Dec 23, 2008)

lauraleellbp said:


> You didn't quarantine them before adding them to your tank?
> 
> Have you inspected them very carefully for ich and fungus? Rummies are very prone to disease/infections, and it can be very hard to spot those against their silver bodies...
> 
> ...


no, no quarantine. The LFS where I bought these fish from put them automatically in medicine. i also figure my UV sterlizer will do the job for me if there's a bug.  I could be wrong. anyways this morning when I inspected the tank there's no more mortality. i am having my fingers crossed.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I strongly recommend that you get and keep a 10gal tank on hand for use as a QT tank if you're planning on ever getting more fish, and for a hospital tank should you have any sick fish and need to isolate them.

With a tank this big, a $20-30 investment now could end up saving you the cost and hassle of medicating such a big tank and potentially replacing your entire fish stock if an epidemic should break out.

UV sterilizers are only effective against waterborne pathogens. There are many other vectors of transmission that won't be touched by them.


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## x2h (Dec 23, 2008)

thanks for the afvice! important to know the concept.

last night i found two pieces of orange peels laying on the substrate, each about the size of my thumbnail. turns out my in-law who is visiting us for a few months puts them in there a day ago. he said he's curious if the fish will eat them. *&^%$#@!

I am speechless.


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## HolyAngel (Oct 18, 2010)

lol wtf!!? Thats got me speechless as well! 

Jeez, hands-off-the-tank for the in-laws it sounds like in that case 

Hopefully that was *definitely* the cause of it and everything will be good now.. I'd be yelling about that for sure sure lol ridiculous..


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## x2h (Dec 23, 2008)

HolyAngel said:


> lol wtf!!? Thats got me speechless as well!
> 
> Jeez, hands-off-the-tank for the in-laws it sounds like in that case
> 
> Hopefully that was *definitely* the cause of it and everything will be good now.. I'd be yelling about that for sure sure lol ridiculous..


drives me nuts too. i pulled those peels out, hopefully it will fix it.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I doubt they did any harm.

Tell him next time just give them a tiny slice of banana. Fish actually like it.


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## x2h (Dec 23, 2008)

i did another testing of the water today, here's the numbers:
pH = 6.1
NH3/NH4 = 0 ppm
NO2 = 0 ppm
NO3 = 5 ppm
PO4 = 0 to 0.25 ppm

I don't understand why the pH drops. Time for a water change?


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