# Super confused about ADA Amazonia and KH



## MCFC (Feb 12, 2017)

I'm no expert with active substrate, but my understanding is that it eats KH and buffers the water for you. So any KH you add will disappear into the substrate within a few hours. 

This buffering capacity has a limit though. Active soil needs to be replaced every so often. If you are adding KH to the tank, you are going to drastically decrease how long the soil will last.


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

MCFC said:


> I'm no expert with active substrate, but my understanding is that it eats KH and buffers the water for you. So any KH you add will disappear into the substrate within a few hours.
> 
> This buffering capacity has a limit though. Active soil needs to be replaced every so often. If you are adding KH to the tank, you are going to drastically decrease how long the soil will last.


Insofar as its buffering capability, but would it also lose its benefits when it comes to providing and holding nutrients?


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## MCFC (Feb 12, 2017)

varanidguy said:


> Insofar as its buffering capability, but would it also lose its benefits when it comes to *providing and holding nutrients*?


You're talking about two different things here. 

Aquasoil has some nutrients in it which are released over time. These eventually run out. 

Holding nutrients is about cation exchange capacity (CEC), which doesn't get depleted. 



Hoppy said:


> High CEC just means the particles have large surface areas and are structured so as to attract and hold positive ions like ammonium and potassium so plant roots can access them easily. That capability doesn't wear out or deplete.
> 
> The popular nutrient rich substrate is ADA Aquasoil, which contains bioavailable nutrients which are used up by the plants over many months of use. Those can't be replenished, but they can be substituted for with substrate fertilizers.


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

MCFC said:


> You're talking about two different things here.
> 
> Aquasoil has some nutrients in it which are released over time. These eventually run out.
> 
> Holding nutrients is about cation exchange capacity (CEC), which doesn't get depleted.


So would it be safe to assume that these soils buffer the water and remove KH, and that removal of the KH is due to their high(ish?) CEC - and once they absorb all the KH and stop buffering the water, then the soil is essentially "full" and will no longer provide benefits.

Or is it something else entirely that gets rid of the KH in aquasoil?


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## MCFC (Feb 12, 2017)

varanidguy said:


> So would it be safe to assume...


That's a dangerous starting point haha 

I'm no scientist, so I can't help. Sorry!


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

MCFC said:


> That's a dangerous starting point haha
> 
> I'm no scientist, so I can't help. Sorry!


lol Fair enough. 

It's just something I've thought about. Get aqua soil for the new nano, but purposefully run out its buffering capacity so I can keep the water a little harder for neocaridina, but then that raised the question if the benefits of the soil regarding nutrients (CEC) would remain intact or if it would be rendered inert.


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## Darkblade48 (Jan 4, 2008)

Brothermist said:


> Tried to post this yesterday and it never showed up... I will try again.


This is because your post was caught accidentally in the automatic spam filter. This usually happens to new users, who post long posts or posts with links/pictures (in your case, all three), typically signs of a spambot.

Flagged posts require manual moderator approval, which usually takes about 24 hours (depending on our schedules). If you're concerned that a post is caught, either sit tight, or you can private message any of us and we can see if something got caught.

In any case, once you have a few more posts, the spam filter should stop flagging your posts.


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## Brothermist (Apr 27, 2015)

Darkblade48 said:


> This is because your post was caught accidentally in the automatic spam filter. This usually happens to new users, who post long posts or posts with links/pictures (in your case, all three), typically signs of a spambot.


No worries, I understand the need for those filters. Thank you for the reply though.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Brothermist said:


> First of all I am brand new to the hobby.
> This is my first ever tank of any kind.
> 
> My plant list is as follows: (See Pics)
> ...


First tank, seems like you have been guided well so far.

The plants I left listed will really appreciate CO2 sooner than later.

KH for our purposes is basically alkalinity.
The higher it is the harder it becomes to move the pH in either direction.
Most plants don't need a high KH, many of us struggle to lower it.

Don't hate @ Barr Report. >
In time and with experience one will come to understand the terminology.
It can be a lot to consume @ first.

CO2 from day one is best, looks like a decent dual stage regulator arrangement.

A novel is fine, people will understand your goals and provide better advise!


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

I must have missed the Acid and Alkaline buffers part initially. Your aqua soil is already doing the buffering. There’s really no need to use those products unless you’re using 100% RO water with an inert substrate and you want to target a specific pH.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MCFC (Feb 12, 2017)

Brothermist said:


> - Fluval Flex 15 gallon tank
> - Seachem Matrix
> - Purigen
> - Cobalt Aquatics Neo-Therm 50w
> ...


All of that and you skimped on the plants?? :grin2:

Honestly, it does look pretty heavily planted. So no worries there. 




Maryland Guppy said:


> First tank, seems like you have been guided well so far.
> 
> CO2 from day one is best, looks like a decent dual stage regulator arrangement.
> 
> A novel is fine, people will understand your goals and provide better advice!


I agree strongly with the points made by @Maryland Guppy!


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## Brothermist (Apr 27, 2015)

Thanks for the input everyone. It is much appreciated.



Maryland Guppy said:


> First tank, seems like you have been guided well so far.


I've been a member here since 2015 and began collecting things while reading. Life got in the way of taking on a new hobby somewhere since then, but I have been reading here and there.



Maryland Guppy said:


> KH for our purposes is basically alkalinity.
> The higher it is the harder it becomes to move the pH in either direction.


My concern with adding C02 to the mix is that it may drop the pH too quickly. I've also read that having 0 KH also pretty much makes pH meters inacurate. 



Maryland Guppy said:


> Don't hate @ Barr Report. >


No hate. Mild contempt. >



Maryland Guppy said:


> The plants I left listed will really appreciate CO2 sooner than later.


...and...



Maryland Guppy said:


> CO2 from day one is best, looks like a decent dual stage regulator arrangement.


Looks like I need to wrap up that regulator build, figure out how to test it, and get my tank filled much sooner than I had expected. More research to do.

Again, thanks all.

Bump:


MCFC said:


> All of that and you skimped on the plants?? :grin2:
> 
> Honestly, it does look pretty heavily planted. So no worries there.


My thinking: If I kill the plants, money wasted. But the hardware I can use over so not exactly a loss. :smile2:




MCFC said:


> I agree strongly with the points made by @Maryland Guppy!


Thanks. I am proud of my 1st reg build (not done and untested).


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## MCFC (Feb 12, 2017)

Brothermist said:


> Thanks. I am proud of my 1st reg build (not done and untested).


Forgive me for being weird, but that is a damn sexy reg build! :grin2:

What needle valve did you use?

And what's the long brass bit above the needle valve?


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## Brothermist (Apr 27, 2015)

MCFC said:


> Forgive me for being weird, but that is a damn sexy reg build! :grin2:
> 
> What needle valve did you use?
> 
> And what's the long brass bit above the needle valve?


roud: Weird is fun. "Normal" is boring.

The needle valve is a Hoke Milli-Mite 1300 Series (1325 H2B to be exact). Wanted it in stainless, but this one came along brand new for a steal. The long brass bit is a Clippard MJCV-1 check valve.


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## TheLordOfTheFish (Mar 11, 2017)

I'm kind of in your boat. 55 gallon super uber high tech with [censored][censored][censored][censored]ton of plants and mounts of ADA soil. Until last week, I added KH to 2 in my rode water but it basically goes to zero within 2 days. My PH with CO2 on is between 5.5 and 5-6 and fish/shrimp are doing fine. I think I'll just stop raising KH and see what happens.


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## Brothermist (Apr 27, 2015)

TheLordOfTheFish said:


> My PH with CO2 on is between 5.5 and 5-6 and fish/shrimp are doing fine. I think I'll just stop raising KH and see what happens.


Please let me know how it goes. inquiring minds, and all that.


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## MCFC (Feb 12, 2017)

Brothermist said:


> roud: Weird is fun. "Normal" is boring.
> 
> The needle valve is a Hoke Milli-Mite 1300 Series (1325 H2B to be exact). Wanted it in stainless, but this one came along brand new for a steal. The long brass bit is a Clippard MJCV-1 check valve.


Do you mind if I ask what each of those units cost?


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## Brothermist (Apr 27, 2015)

I paid $30 for the Hoke on the bay, and $13 for the check valve on Amazon. 

There is a pretty amazing list of metering valves for these builds by @Bettatail  HERE. 

Prices can vary but patience and some evilbay hunting and you can score. The check valve can be found for $5-$7 from a lot of places, but for some insane reason the shipping on Clippard parts is almost always crazy. That $6 check valve is $15-$20 most places, plus wait time. Amazon prime I paid $13 and had it in 2 days.


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