# Ideas on LED for deep tank



## heel4you (Mar 8, 2015)

Hello all,

I have a new 65 gallon (36 x 18 x 25) tank. It will be high tech. The substrate should be 2 to 3 inches in depth. Also, it is NOT possible for me to hang this light. So, it will be postioned on the lights "legs".

I have asked alot of questions here on the forum (gotten alot of great feedback) and done a lot of research.

What I would like to know is, what do YOU use on YOUR deep tanks?
Specifically, is there one LED light that can be used to light your tank?

While I know that I will be spending in ALOT of money on lighting, I am trying to make the best choice without breaking the bank, I do have other things to buy 

This is what I have considered:
BML - they state it will take 2 
Dsuny - makes me nervous about customer service.
Reefbreeders LED - not sure about their spectrums or how many light it would take?
Kessil - WAY to expensive!!

As you can see from my light choices, I would like the LED'S to be programmable right out of the box. I am not electronically minded (wish I was!)

I am also "trying" to stay around $300.00 or so 

Anyway...if any of you have any input for me for a 1 light option, I would appreciate it!!

Thank you VERY MUCH!!


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## micheljq (Oct 24, 2012)

Hi, the least expensive would be suspended CFLs bulbs.

I have a 36" X 18" X 24" (high) tank with one Beamswork 2nd gen fixture and one Finnex Ray 2 DS, i am not even getting med light.

Bacopas, rotalas were growing leggy and ugly, i forgot them. Right now i am keeping hygrophilas and they are beautiful, echinodorus, Java Fern crypts.

I plan on upgrading and purchasing one BML light, and use it with the 2 other fixtures.

Kessil i like, their lights for horticulture are cheaper, and with 2 years warranty it seems. But those for aquariums are not cheap, and only 1 year warranty (maybe one day it will be 2 years).

Michel.


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## heel4you (Mar 8, 2015)

Michel,
Thank you for your reply!
Which BML are you going to purchase?
I am looking at the BML 10000K Planted - XB Series and it says I "still" need 2!
I find this really incredible that it takes this much light with 10,000K's! I really don't care to have an algea farm...lol
I think I am really scared to "pull the trigger" on buying a light, then not be happy with my purchase :/
This is not an easy decision...I am struggling with this, being that it is so much money involved and I am not experienced at all with lighting!
I just want it to be the right decision


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## Freemananana (Jan 2, 2015)

Is it 25" deep? That's like a standard 90g depth, which isn't tough. I'll wait for a reply before I go researching journals.


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## heel4you (Mar 8, 2015)

Freemananana,
Yes 25" deep, that is "bare bones" tank size.
Thank you


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## micheljq (Oct 24, 2012)

heel4you said:


> Michel,
> Thank you for your reply!
> Which BML are you going to purchase?
> I am looking at the BML 10000K Planted - XB Series and it says I "still" need 2!


It says i need 2 with the standard, not XB. You can buy the dimming switch so you can lower the intensity.

With 2 XB full power you may need co2 and ferts.

You can send them a request for a quote, ask their advise.

I plan on purchasing the not XB, dutch planted 6300K, and use it with the Finnex and Beamswork i already own.

Michel :smile2:


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## Freemananana (Jan 2, 2015)

There is a guy here used a Ray2 and Planted plus 24/7 on a 90g with CO2 and achieved medium light and a carpet. Your tank is just 36" instead of 48". You could easily do the same. $250 in lights.

Just to throw it out there. I have 13w CFLs suspended 32" to the substrate on my tank and achieve the top end of low light with only 3 fixtures on a 48" tank. If you can hide the ugliness that is dome shop lights, you can light this tank on the cheap if you wanted to save up for BML.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

micheljq said:


> It says i need 2 with the standard, not XB. You can buy the dimming switch so you can lower the intensity.
> 
> With 2 XB full power you may need co2 and ferts.
> 
> ...



Difference between a "normal" and XB WITH the manual dimmer is $35.. Why would one go w/ less light for a "medium/small price difference..??
$30 difference between a multi-channel Dutch and others.. 
I'm not getting it?

At one point BML was going to discontinue all non-XB lights..guess the demand was still there.. still.. I don't get it.

control circuit is 10V DC .. Really no problem jacking into it on the cheap..
Even a 9v battery will run it under full.. 

http://www.buildmyled.com/manual-dimming-switch/



> If you send 10V to our fixtures, the output will be at 100%. By sending lower voltage signals, the analog dimming circuitry will start to lower the output current of the driver. Hence, the fixtures will start to dim. Our systems dim from 10-100%, so a 0V signal from the AquaController will generate a ~10% light level from the fixture. If you want to go to 0% light, you tell the software to turn the EB8 port (where you plugged in the power cord) off. This allows you to control our fixtures without the use of old school timers. We are fully integrated with the Apex controller, but some customers are asking us to find a way to eliminate the need to occupy an EB8 port to turn the fixtures completely off. The would allow them to use the EB8 port with another piece of hardware.
> 
> The specified Mean Well driver uses an internal relay in the dimming circuitry, but most 0-10V drivers don't use this design. We are discussing this with our OEM manufacturers, and it will be considered on future product releases.
> 
> Nick


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## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

Freemananana said:


> There is a guy here used a Ray2 and Planted plus 24/7 on a 90g with CO2 and achieved medium light and a carpet. Your tank is just 36" instead of 48". You could easily do the same. $250 in lights.


Small clarification. A 36" fixture is obviously less expensive than a 48" fixture of the same type, but also puts out slightly less par at a given level because of less spread from the sides. Maybe a 5-10% difference.


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## Kubla (Jan 5, 2014)

Check out the Beamswork Evo with 3 watt leds. I can't remember the lens they use but the individual leds are a tighter beam then a lot of available lights. They are set up well for deeper tanks. 

I don't think you can light your tank very well with one light that is not suspended. That close to the tank I don't see how you can get full coverage for the 18" front to back and still get enough light at the bottom.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Kubla said:


> I can't remember the lens they use but the individual leds are a tighter beam then a lot of available lights.


90 degrees...Remove lenses and you get 120...

Most lights w/ SMD LED's are 120 w/ the possible exception of the RayII w/ 90..

visual.. 2.5" vs 12" 90 degree optics (better optics but concept is similar..)


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## Aquarium_Alex (Jul 28, 2014)

Two finnex ray 2 36" will cost you $270. Each one puts out just over 40 PAR at substrate level at 24 inches, so together taht would be around 80 PAR? I'm not sure if it stacks up that way.

Aquarium Lights : Amazon.com: Finnex Ray2 Aquarium LED Daylight, 36-Inch

Finnex RAY II & FugeRAY PAR Data - The Planted Tank Forum

Interestingly enough, the 30 inch models are each $45 cheaper than the 36 inch model, so if you were able to find some way to extend the lighting by 3 inches you could get two 30 inch models for under $180 total, each one putting out about 35 PAR at that height I assume (not sure because I haven't found PAR data on it).


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Aquarium_Alex said:


> Two finnex ray 2 36" will cost you $270. Each one puts out just over 40 PAR at substrate level at 24 inches, so together taht would be around 80 PAR? I'm not sure if it stacks up that way.
> 
> Aquarium Lights : Amazon.com: Finnex Ray2 Aquarium LED Daylight, 36-Inch
> 
> ...


80 PAR if you could superimpose them on each other. w/ the wider tank you would (should) spread them out a bit more..
PAR will increase overall but not double in most places..

All the RayII's have PAR data in air AFAICT.. 


> Be warned that the 30" has the exact same LED strip as the 24"


http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/145-finnex/189944-finnex-ray-ii-fugeray-par-data-2.html


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## heel4you (Mar 8, 2015)

jeffkrol said:


> 90 degrees...Remove lenses and you get 120...
> 
> Most lights w/ SMD LED's are 120 w/ the possible exception of the RayII w/ 90..
> 
> visual.. 2.5" vs 12" 90 degree optics (better optics but concept is similar..)


Jeff,
So, can the lens on the BML'S be removed to make them 120 degrees?
If so, would this solve the problem of full coverage in my tank if I purchased the BML 36 inch 10000K Planted - XB Series light? I wonder how much PAR I would have after lens removal?
Thank!


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

heel4you said:


> Jeff,
> So, can the lens on the BML'S be removed to make them 120 degrees?
> If so, would this solve the problem of full coverage in my tank if I purchased the BML 36 inch 10000K Planted - XB Series light? I wonder how much PAR I would have after lens removal?
> Thank!


Problem is the lenses have more than one function. They are used to blend the colors and are actually asymetric throwing light sideways more than from/back..
Raising it to 6" should solve most problems..

your effective depth would be around 30"
@ 24" you have 85-65(outer)PAR..

Guesstimating you will now have 60-40PAR at that height..










grabbed the wrong chart.. XB is higher yet..

115-90 at 24"

you don't "need" more light, just a more effective presentation..

so 6" from the water line is the height you would need really.. (+/- an inch or so)

9" if you want full coverage at the water line.


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## micheljq (Oct 24, 2012)

jeffkrol said:


> Difference between a "normal" and XB WITH the manual dimmer is $35.. Why would one go w/ less light for a "medium/small price difference..??
> $30 difference between a multi-channel Dutch and others..
> I'm not getting it?
> 
> ...


I do not know i am not 100% sure about my decision either, still thinking and cogitating.

Won't the XB leds have more chance to burn more quickly than they should? Bah! they give the same warranty so i guess it is just a phantasm in my mind.

Michel.


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## alcimedes (Dec 7, 2014)

I have a single BML over our office planted 125G. I've been very happy with it. Dutch spectrum. I think it was $500 when I bought it, but I'm likely to do the same thing again with the 160G I'm setting up.

Every other LED light I've tried (with the exception of the Planted 24/7) has led to lots of brown algae, and mediorce plant growth.

The Planted 24/7 is great for the 29G I have it on, but I didn't think it would be enough for a deeper tank.

With the BML lights, it at least feels like you're paying for quality. (a number of other LED lights I've purchased have had the controllers fail, or banks of LED's within the light itself, none of that with the BML.)


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## heel4you (Mar 8, 2015)

OK....
So, it sound like I need to figure out a way to get the light 9 inches up above the rim.
I can't hang the light. I have cathedral ceilings in my living room...so no way to use the ceiling.
Any thoughts on this  ?
OR...is there anyway to replace the 90 degree lenses with 120 degree lenses on the BML?
Now, if this can be done and knowing that I am not mechanically inclined, how hard would this be?
Thank you


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

heel4you said:


> OK....
> So, it sound like I need to figure out a way to get the light 9 inches up above the rim.
> I can't hang the light. I have cathedral ceilings in my living room...so no way to use the ceiling.
> Any thoughts on this  ?
> ...


specialty lens, you'd have to get it right from BML.. 
Building simple risers is not too difficult. 
On rimless tank you only need to use their mounts and a plexiglass "sandwich"..
3 rectangles of plex as thick as the glass sandwiched together.
Outside pieces go below the rim. Inside piece rests on the glass..
Mounts attach to the plex just like on a tank.
Catch is weight. you need to spread it out so that any inward (down) flex will not put too much strain in the tank rim.

Rimmed tanks are a bit more difficult...
.

Kind of like this:
2 pcs H90mm fish tank acrylic mount lamp holder aquarium beightening transparent aquarium stands on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group

building a wooden canopy isn't much of a problem either....


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## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

Conduit makes a fairly sleek fixture rack. Two pieces mounted to the back of the stand, bent forward over the tank. Unfortunately you really need a conduit bender to do it cleanly, but there are 90 degree corner pieces you could use as well.

A canopy is also an option.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

kevmo911 said:


> Conduit makes a fairly sleek fixture rack. Two pieces mounted to the back of the stand, bent forward over the tank.


Probably the most common type. Can be side by side as well

A combo ("pipe" and rim mount) commercial unit.. you would think they could make it a bit more "pretty" though..
Aquarium Stands : Amazon.com: Brightsky 24" 36" 48" Aquarium Light Suspension System Tank Bracket Hanging Kit (48")










Back or side posts w/ some aesthetic value.. 
http://www.iquaticsonline.co.uk/tmc-v2ilumenair-led-hanging-kit-600mm-612.html


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## Timmy!! (Jun 26, 2014)

Here is how I hung my ray2, half inch conduit. It was super easy to put together especially if you have access to the back of the stand to attach everything. If not I've seen a lot of people attach it to the side of the stand. Pretty sure lowes or home depot can bend it for you, or you can buy the pre bent pieces and use clamps like I did.

Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk


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## Kathyy (Feb 22, 2010)

I like the look of the conduit light hangers a lot. 

I also like the look of a shelf mounted above the tank and lights hung from that. I would have done that way back when I had metal halide over the tank and the tank was between bookcases but didn't quite work out as the tank was 24" wide and set away from the wall a few inches to boot, the ~18" wide shelf just wouldn't have looked right.


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## heel4you (Mar 8, 2015)

I love all of these great ideas! 
You all have been very helpful.
I now, feel more comfortable with my BML purchase!! Yes, I made my mind up 
I believe the conduit route suspension (9 inches above the tank - thank you Jeff!) could be doable with the help of Lowe's or the H-depot bending the pipes.
What other parts do I need for this suspension kit?
I would like it to be as nice looking as I can get it 
Probably paint it all black, that may look nice.
Thanks all!!


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## Little Soprano (Mar 13, 2014)

I am still searching for lights for my 24" deep FW tank, but on my Reef tank (also 24" tall), I have the Dsuny, and despite not having much of a customer service department, I don't know if I'll ever need them. I have two, and they have worked FLAWLESSLY since the set-up. Beautiful spectrum LEDs, and very powerful.


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## heel4you (Mar 8, 2015)

Little Soprano said:


> I am still searching for lights for my 24" deep FW tank, but on my Reef tank (also 24" tall), I have the Dsuny, and despite not having much of a customer service department, I don't know if I'll ever need them. I have two, and they have worked FLAWLESSLY since the set-up. Beautiful spectrum LEDs, and very powerful.



Little Soprano,

How long have you had your dsuny lights? How much do you run them during the day?
Thank you


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## Little Soprano (Mar 13, 2014)

heel4you said:


> Little Soprano,
> 
> How long have you had your dsuny lights? How much do you run them during the day?
> Thank you


I've had them since January of this year. I run them for approx. 11 hours a day at 100%, but they also have moon lights which I run too. So basically 24hrs a day. And they have a sunrise and sunset setting too, so they are always active. They are supplemented by 2 VHO 454 bulbs, but I only run those for 6hrs a day. I've been very pleased with these lights.

They are a beautiful spectrum, and all 4 channels are customizable from the controller too.


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## heel4you (Mar 8, 2015)

Thank you


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## Freemananana (Jan 2, 2015)

kevmo911 said:


> Small clarification. A 36" fixture is obviously less expensive than a 48" fixture of the same type, but also puts out slightly less par at a given level because of less spread from the sides. Maybe a 5-10% difference.


Another small clarification. Overlap can be calculated by using the beam angle and height. You can find out at what length the beams stop overlapping. This is something to keep in mind though.

I think the OP has given up on the Ray2 though, from the way the discussion has gone. Medium light and CO2 can grow almost everything in the hobby.


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## heel4you (Mar 8, 2015)

Freemananana,
Thank you for the clarification.

After, trying to purchase several "slightly" used lights and losing out on the purchases to someone else: BML, Maxspect and Reefbreeders.

I have FINALLY bought.........
2 - two month old Kessil A160WE Tuna Suns at an incredible price.

I had put a search on craigslist and I had a phone notification today. Then....poof, they are mine!!!!

Right up the street from me. I am so excited, I cannot hardly contain myself 

I want to thank EVERYONE who took their time to guide me and give me their wonderful advice!

Take care all!!


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