# Snow Bee x S + Red what will I get?



## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

I wouldn't do that if I were you....


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## janftica (Jan 11, 2010)

Why? They are all living in the one tank as I don't have another ready for just the snow bees. Is there a reason for not keeping them together...I thought they were all the same species???
I see breeders with blacks and reds together....why not the snows?


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## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

I have no idea why you would want to crossbreed the snow whites, and have the potential off loosing all of that selective breeding out of them in the first place. But here is the thing, you could end up with really ugly babies later down the road. I just wouldn't do it.

I wouldn't keep CBS with CRS together either. But some breeder do, and its because they have shrimp that have both the red and black gene in them as it is. Therefore, the offspring can either be CRS or CBS.


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## Scipio (Feb 18, 2008)

Keeping them together is not consider crossbreeding at least in IMO. There is nothing wrong with keeping them together. In Germany and in Asia many breeders keep them together. Shoot, they even keep RW and KK with CRS/CBS. Its true that if you just want to keep the line clean then don't mix them but you won't get any ugly babies if you do decide to mix them.


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## janftica (Jan 11, 2010)

Yes that's what I thought myself! I KNOW some breeders both here and in Asia keep the snow bees to help upgrade the white on their CRS and CBS. I only have the one tank available that has low enough PH to keep them in so I don't have any choice, they have to live together.

My question was more on what percentage of black v red would I get considering the snow bees are originally from outcrossing of CBS x CBS until the white is more prominant than the black, but they do still carry the gene for black. I was wondering if the black is more dominant than the red.

Im sure someone on this forum can answer that for me.


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

In CRS/ CBS, Black will always be the dominant gene


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## Captivate05 (Feb 23, 2010)

Craigthor said:


> In CRS/ CBS, Black will always be the dominant gene


We already got in an discussion about this. True, black is dominate to red, but it's more than one factor that controls color. From what I understand, even if you fail to reintroduce a founder effect among red, you will still get a mix later down the road. If it were one factor controlling color, you'd get exclusively black.

Genetics are crazy, complicated, and fairly unpredictable. Although we can come to understand and expect certain things, something will always turn up we can't explain that well.


In my opinion, why would you spend the moo-la to get snow bees, then place them with lower grade shrimp just because you can? If you kept them separate, you could easily sell the babies from the snow bees for a higher price than what you will get out of the offspring you'll get from crossing. 

But that's just my 2 cents...


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

I find it funny to see you guys discuss this (in the nicest possible way of course) because all snow white and golden bees are is the result of the race for a full white CRS/Diamond. To my knowledge snow white is just one level of the all white shrimp because they have different levels of whiteness and once the full white was achieved some breeders continued to try and perfect this. With this said they're all the same species all Caridina blah blah blah. They all started off brown/black/orange with tiny white stripes, then the red mutation occurred and then the breeding craze really took off and over many years breeders bred for intense white or more white. 

Crossing a snow bee with normal CRS and Diamonds depending on the grade of it's white can be disasterous or great, but in the end I wouldn't expect much. Personally, I want to restart the breeding race using low grade bee shrimp and golden bees and see what I can get as a result a few generations in.

Neat stuff, nothing to really worry about, if you get some blacks or browns pull them out if you don't want them, IMO they look better than CRS.

-Andrew


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## janftica (Jan 11, 2010)

I am just waiting on my new tank to finish cycling and them in they go there. It will be an all snow bee tank...I have some very white snow bees (although only 6 of them) but I am hopefull that they will breed and give me more to work with. I will be making a nice home for them with a moss covered piece of driftwood to climb over as that is what they seem to like doing. 

Thanks for the input though I appreciate all the helpful knowledge I can get.


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

snow white + CRS and snow white + CBS will sometimes create rare mutations.

I believe the taiwan bee shrimp everyone love so much are snow white crosses.

It's not a rare thing to see CBS are CRS together in a tank, however, it's usually only for breeding experiments that people introduce snow white or golden to their high grade CRS population.

There's actually quite the discussion of these things on shrimp-only forums.

just saw a lot of misinformation on this thread.

CRS + CBS won't always be black dominant, that's just goofy. Look up a genetics chart to see the different combinations.

Keeping CBS and CRS together won't effect grading negatively (wont make shrimp ugly)
Even keeping king kong with anything wont effect anything... Especially since king kong is a mutation and not a breedable quality. King kong + king kong != king kong.

And none of these are neocardinia, nor did they start as such... And none of them started as a mostly orange or brown shrimp. You can still catch wild bee shrimp that are jet black with white, and look like lower grade (but not C or B grade) CBS. There was just a colony in china found with beautiful markings that look like a cow. Not to mention the wild bee shrimp from vietnam, which look like CBS but with all identical markings. 

BTW, all bee shrimp are cardinia, not neocardinia.

And it would take several generations to ever breed snow white out of a shrimp colony.

This is all kinda silly to me.


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## Aqua'd (Dec 20, 2009)

Whatever you decide to do, just make sure anyone you're selling the offspring to knows what the mix is. It's really disheartening when you find out that something you paid for isn't really what you thought it was.


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## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

Aqua'd said:


> Whatever you decide to do, just make sure anyone you're selling the offspring to knows what the mix is. It's really disheartening when you find out that something you paid for isn't really what you thought it was.


And that's exactly why I wouldn't do that. It's like buying SSS+ Mosuras only to find out that they really aren't that, but had golden or snow bees introduced to get the SSS+.


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## Neya (Nov 21, 2009)

From what I've researched on Asian sites Snow white is often used to improve crs but removes possibility oN coloration on legs.
Highest quality SSS often do have leg coloration(as they were not mixed with snow) Huge trade off IMO - I like red legs. 


Afew people On another shrimp forum are mixing CBS with black tigers (black eye) and have come up with Taiwan bee, and kk possibilities VERY early on in generations leading me to believe that hybrids were starters to such morphs.


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## janftica (Jan 11, 2010)

Well as I want more snow bees I will be moving them to their own home soon. Just trying an experiment with my moss tied to a spidery looking piece of driftwood to see if it will eventually grow on it. Right now it looks like a tree in the woods inside the tank...so pretty! Once its cycled I will transfer the snow bees into it.


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## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

Neya said:


> From what I've researched on Asian sites Snow white is often used to improve crs but removes possibility oN coloration on legs.
> Highest quality SSS often do have leg coloration(as they were not mixed with snow) Huge trade off IMO - I like red legs.


Good to know, I didn't know this myself.

Which makes me happy, because the SSS+ I'm getting have red legs.


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## EntoCraig (Jun 7, 2010)

Im a huge fan of hybrids and experiments, JUST TRY IT!!! keep them separate and monitor breeding for like a year. Documentation is key if you do create something amazing! Their is also a huge chance that it will flop, creating 'natural' looking shrimp that are mostly clear with little to no color. Breed the 2, then remove the adults when the babies show up.


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## janftica (Jan 11, 2010)

I think they are still too young yet to breed, they are tiny compared to the other crystal shrimp who are about 1/3 bigger. They don't really seem to be interested in any of the other shrimps either, so Im thinking that they are not mature yet. I will just move them to my new tank once its ready for them. I like the look of the all white with no see through on the bodies, so want to create more like them. At least you can SEE them against the black sand LOL.


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