# Soul-sucking Cyanobacia (BGA)



## fiasco (Feb 23, 2013)

My name is Fiasco and I have cyanobacteria.

I have for ages. It's always appeared in all my tanks and it's growing tiresome. Can anyone help me with figure out why I can't seem to stop it's coup d'état of all my tanks over the years? 

Take a look at my tank. It's in a pretty sad state (photo taken after a 75% prune due to the BGA/cyanobacteria infestation).

My Tank Profile

You can see all my specs on that page. The formatting isn't great but I can't seem to go back and edit that for whatever reason. You'll also see some air stones in there. I am testing to see if oxygenating the tank better will have an effect. I typically don't have aeration at all. I depend on the plants and the surface agitation for that. 

In short, according to all the reading I've done over the years, *the usual culprits are:*

 Low nitrates
 Dissolved organics
 Low flow
*
Also (but to a lesser degree?)*

 Low oxygen (not enough surface agitation) 
 Old lights
 Too much lighting
 Not enough sacrificial offerings to the gods

*That being said: I have tried:* 

 Adding flow
 purchasing new bulbs 
 addressing dissolved organics... adding a heavy rotation of purigen. Using 1 bag of 150g. Regenerating every two-three months as they get dark along weekly water changes (as part of the EI dosing regimen)
 erythromycin (twice)
 hydrogen peroxide spot treatments (off and on for months) with water changes to remove dead algae the day after.
 a whole tank peroxide treatment - as prescribed somewhere 

*Current Suspects:*
Dissovled organics: The HC shows a lot of dead roots. The cyano is really in there and I think it's shading them out. That could be a possible source of organics. But I also don't know how much organics I could possibly have in that tank considering how many water changes I've been doing lately paired with the fat sack of purigen in the filter. No chance of overfeeding. 

Lighting: I have a mashup of lighting. 4 different bulbs of varying temps. I did this to get the color I liked in the tank with a variety off red/blue peaks (with the hopes to maximize par). However, right now it always looks green. The oldest bulb is 8 months old but it's only been in use for about 2 hours a day since then. the remainder are less than 3 months old at this point. 

What should I do? Where do I go from here? Should I yank the remaining contaminated HC and replant? I've done that before a few times... the cyano just comes back and grows right along with it. Should I cut the lights back to 8 hours and no noon burst? Which bulbs should I be using? 

Thanks in advance. Let me know if you have any questions. I will be updating this thread to document my progress.


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## Jaguar (Oct 13, 2011)

I fought cyano for the better part of a year. What did it for me was dosing more phosphates (sounds scary - I know) and adding a large amount of healthy plants. Get some fast growers like wisteria. Once upon a time my tank looked like this... I feel you.


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

I have usually had BGA (and most other algaes appear) after circumstances that cause the plants not to do well or high organics (the latter usually results from the former in the form of shed leaves, etc.). Supporting a healthy microbial population (good oxygenation, not too high CO2) is also helpful for preventing BGA. 

To minimize organics, ensure proper filtration capacity. The manufacturer's stated tank size supported may be wholly inadequate. For example, even with almost no livestock (just a few otos) I still had a huge amount of detritus in my 120 gallon tank with one Eheim 2217 (rated for tanks up to ~150 gallons). After adding a second this was no longer the case. Proper flow and a cleanup crew also help prevent accumulation. 

In your position, I'd use erythromycin concurrent with a blackout to get rid of any that's currently in your tank. Chuck your plants - they're contaminated and will have a hard time recovering. Once the BGA is completely eliminated (don't shy away from using the full dose), get as many new healthy plants you can fit into the tank. Doesn't matter what they are, even the cheapest weedy stems or floaters will do (you can always replace them later). 

Do you have more details about your tank setup? Substrate? Lighting type? CO2 supplementation? You mention multiple bulbs (presumably providing high light) and EI dosing, but no CO2, which is a recipe for algae of many sorts. Most likely you can cut back on your light - the vast majority of plants will do very well with moderate lighting at most. If you have a nutritive substrate (Aquasoil) I'd recommend against EI dosing, as it (in my experience) can lead to unstable tanks - as soon as something is slightly off for a few days you have a massive algae bloom on your hands.


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## dukydaf (Dec 27, 2004)

Hello Fiasco, lovely nickname

When you say Erythromycin- twice what do you mean ? What conc,how often ?

Have a read of this Cyanobacteria (Blue-green Algae)
This worked every time for me:


> Day 1.
> Add 2.5 mg/L erythromycin. If you have a protein
> skimmer, turn it off. I believe it will inactive a lot of the
> antibiotic through coprecipitation with protein. It will,
> ...


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

fiasco said:


> My name is Fiasco and I have cyanobacteria.
> 
> *That being said: I have tried:*
> 
> ...


You haven't tried aquarium salt. That is what worked for me after using the erythromycin. Mine was just on the ground. I just sprinkled it on the BGA 2xs and it went away..


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

Another tip - make sure to remove algae during treatment and remove all algae when done. If left in the tank an ammonia spike could lead to issues. I'd also make sure all new plants are clean of Spirogyra (an overnight API Algaefix treatment should do the trick). Spirogyra loves high ammonia and once it's established in your tank it's almost impossible to get rid of. I've had this happen to me several times after ridding a BGA infestation.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

Unless I'm missing something, but based on your profile you have way too much light. What are you currently running and for how long and how old is the setup?


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## Solcielo lawrencia (Dec 30, 2013)

Stop dosing traces, including iron.


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## dukydaf (Dec 27, 2004)

Solcielo lawrencia said:


> Stop dosing traces, including iron.


Should we add this to the trace toxicity outcomes ? Will stopping trace dosing cure this as well ?

Tell you devil's eye these traces...


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

houseofcards said:


> Unless I'm missing something, but based on your profile you have way too much light.


+2:thumbsup:

A *light* *siesta* hour of *3hrs* is another thing I do to keep algae under control (3hrs on/ 3hrs off/ 3hrs on). Perhaps that will help you too.


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## fiasco (Feb 23, 2013)

Wow, I wasn't expecting quite so many replies to quickly. There's a lot of great advice in there and it really makes me see there's hope yet. So many things I haven't tried. I'd like to try altering one thing at a time in an effort to ID the root cause. 

I'm not really sure how to best reply to all these separate comments and threads, but here goes... 



Jaguar said:


> What did it for me was dosing more phosphates (sounds scary - I know) and adding a large amount of healthy plants. Get some fast growers like wisteria.


Currently my phosphates are at around 1-2ppm. How much higher were you thinking? I like the fast grower idea. 



Axelrodi202 said:


> I have usually had BGA (and most other algaes appear) after circumstances that cause the plants not to do well or high organics (the latter usually results from the former in the form of shed leaves, etc.).


Agreed I very much think this is the case. Lots of die-off putting organics back in the water column



Axelrodi202 said:


> To minimize organics, ensure proper filtration capacity.


My current filter (eheim ecco 2236) is rated for up to 80 gallons. I'm operating at about 30% of that suggested capacity. I'd hope that's enough for a 25 gallons. 



Axelrodi202 said:


> In your position, I'd use erythromycin concurrent with a blackout to get rid of any that's currently in your tank. Chuck your plants - they're contaminated[/QUTOE]
> 
> I don't want to do the antibiotics again. I've done 2 full treatments (API E.M. Erythromycin, 2 packs per day for 5 days) 8 months apart. It always seems to return. I'm pretty sure I'm just breeding super-cyano at this point.
> 
> ...


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## ipkiss (Aug 9, 2011)

houseofcards said:


> Unless I'm missing something, but based on your profile you have way too much light. What are you currently running and for how long and how old is the setup?





Hilde said:


> +2:thumbsup:
> 
> A *light* *siesta* hour of *3hrs* is another thing I do to keep algae under control (3hrs on/ 3hrs off/ 3hrs on). Perhaps that will help you too.


:thumbsup: +3 .. and 4 even if I can vote twice. Do whatever you have to do to cut down the intensity, the length, or both, but I believe it's almost always too much light. Lighting is just too attractive to believe that it's the culprit. Even if it isn't, less light will give you more time to figure things out as plants are not as stressed out to push itself to grow so fast. There's a lot being said and a lot to try all at once. See Darkblade's Primer to Planted Tanks so that you can rethink things a little and hopefully you pick the right things to do for your tank.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

fiasco said:


> Currently my phosphates are at around 1-2ppm. How much higher were you thinking? I like the fast grower idea.


 My info from Rex Griggs says that phosphates 1-2ppm is the best range for phosphates. Phosphates can cause algae so I would not increase your phosphates.


fiasco said:


> I don't want to do the antibiotics again. I've done 2 full treatments (API E.M. Erythromycin, 2 packs per day for 5 days) 8 months apart. It always seems to return. I'm pretty sure I'm just breeding super-cyano at this point.


 If it were going to work it would have after 2xs.


fiasco said:


> I'd like a little advice here. Is it too much? I am running 4 T5HO. 2 for 10 hours, the other 2 for 2 hours (for a noon burst).


I run just 2 for 3hrs on/ 3hrs off/ 3hrs on. For this is what works for me.


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## Cheetah2 (Nov 24, 2015)

I've been dealing with BGA for 4 months now, and lower lighting helps keep it controlled, but there's still the issue of removing what has appeared so it doesn't spread further. I went as far as to pull the coated plants and leave them overnight in water with peroxide. If you shake them around enough, the algae (bacteria) falls off and sinks once it's dead. If that's not practical, the algae can be manually removed by rubbing off each leaf and stem, then vacuuming with a WC. Yes, it's a pain, but after doing this 2-3x, there's been a significant improvement in my three tanks that have it.

As I've been wrestling with this, parts of Florida have been in a state of emergency with their algae bloom of BGA. Is it the same BGA, or are there many strains of this bacteria?


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Cheetah2 said:


> As I've been wrestling with this, parts of Florida have been in a state of emergency with their algae bloom of BGA. Is it the same BGA, or are there many strains of this bacteria?


It looks the same to me. This proves my point that the tap water is the reason why some of us continuously have to work to keep the bad algae under control.


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

Unfortunately the Adobe link doesn't work for me.

To judge your filtration's adequacy, have a look at the tank. Does mulm/detritus accumulate quickly/easily? Do you have a noticeable surface film?

I'd still give the Erythromycin a shot combined with other methods like blackout, manual removal, etc. BGA is one of those algaes where only drastic measures will kill it after it becomes virulent and established. Of course if you're not opposed to starting over you could use bleach as well...

I'd definitely nip the Spirogyra or hair algae in the bud before it gets established. Just the thought of the stuff gives me cold sweats. When using API Algaefix, I like to split up each day's dose into two half doses (one in the morning/afternoon and one in the evening).


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## fiasco (Feb 23, 2013)

Sorry about the pdf link. Can anyone else see that thing? it's just a formatted duplication of what's on my tank profile page, really. 

I have stripped all the infected HC from the tank and pulled out all the rotting roots. I also went to remove a sample of what I believe is Spirogyra in my weeping moss (the only place it seems to have taken up residence) only to find that the moss is was lifting off the wood. almost anything attaching it to the wood had died off. So it all got removed and chucked. 

I did my weekly WC and gave the gravel some extra attention now that I can reach it. I was sucking up a lot of detritus/debris when digging deeper in the soil - but it didn't seem like mulm more like fine, broken down soil. 

HC has been replanted with a couple healthy pots along with some supposedly faster growing stem plant. Its ugly, but I was going for plant mass and growth speed, not looks. I'll likely get tossed once I regain some more plant mass. 

Before the BGA outbreak I definitely was seeing a thick frothy protein slick collecting on the surface of the water - at that point I stepped up WC's to three times a week. If I had to guess I'd say the filtration was adequate under regular conditions but not when there is that many things rotting away in there. 

Is it possible that this whole thing was caused by letting my hc and moss get too thick - causing the dying off of the underbrush? never did my ammonia or nitrites show any perceivable elevation. 

Next steps: Now that I've done a clean up, reduced the photo period and reduced the quantity of rotting plants in the tank, I'll observe for a week to see how things do. Continuing with manual removal and halved EI dosing (minus the traces). If things get way out of hand too fast again I'll reduce the lighting down to 3/3/3 to slow things down and reevaluate my plan of attack. 

Regarding the erythromycin... I haven't ruled it out. but I do need to fix something in my tank or else I'll be back in a couple months with the same issue. Once I see progress in keeping the BGA at bay and feel that I'm winning the war, I'll likely nuke the tank with a treatment cycle. Or is this a war that just can't be won without it? I really don't know.


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## dukydaf (Dec 27, 2004)

The link does not work for me, it goes to a login page, perhaps you need to make the file publicly accessible. 

Why half EI ? You will not starve the algae out. It will grow when your plants are dead. Adjust the EI dosing for your waterchanges. Say you aim to dose 20ppm NO3 before you change your water. You would dose 3ppm /day *7days for weekly water change, but 10ppm*2days if you change your water after 2 days (This is for 50% wc). The goal is to avoid the situation where you run lean on some macros. If you want to play with micros now go ahead, but keep in mind the same guy said micros are toxic to algae and kill them.

In my experience once it goes viral, it will cover the plants rather quick and inhibit their growth,making it difficult to keep the aquarium going. Maybe if you are anal with your daily cleaning it could work. Some sp. of cyanobacteria also secrete cytotoxins which are toxic higher life forms. In some aquariums, if I increase the NO3 level when I see it just starting in sand, it usually stops there. Unless I push it under with a credit card, it stays like that for quite some time and then turns black and dies. 

Good luck in the fight.

Regards duky


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

If your Aquasoil isn't too old (more than half a year or so) it should still be providing plenty of nutrients and you shouldn't have to dose full EI. At most dose leaner levels of potassium and traces (including iron) as AS tends to be lower in these. 

I see in the tank profile you're using the Ista reactor. Personally I have not had good experiences with this product, finding it to be very inefficient. I got much better results switching to another method (Mazzei injector). On a smaller tank like yours a diffuser should also work quite well. 

Definitely sounds like you had an organics problem even before the outbreak. Unhealthy plants are a big source. But looking at your tank profile the fish stocking level is quite high. I'd significantly reduce it until you get everything in order, and then try gradually increasing it. Your tank is also much too small for the Boesemani rainbows when they mature. They're big active fish requiring at least a 4' long tank.

I'd definitely reduce both the intensity and duration of lighting. 2 T5HO bulbs is already very high light. I'd reduce it to one for now. A photoperiod around 6 hours would be good. 

Now that the moss is gone keep an eye out for hair algae or spirogyra. It's easier to eliminate when it doesn't have any moss to hide in. You definitely want to make sure it's out before you reintroduce any moss. Moss and filamentous algae simply cannot coexist - inevitably the latter will take over the former. When you get new moss make sure it's clean as well. Do a careful inspection under bright light and give it an Algaefix treatment bath if you find any.


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## Gongus (Apr 22, 2016)

I had a a pretty nasty case of BGA when I originally set up my tank. You can see how I treated it here:

"at the start of Week 3 I got a huge bloom of blue-green algae (aka as cyanobacteria). The whole tank was covered within a few days. I have no pics from this period because it was frankly depressing and I almost quit the whole planted tank thing. I decided to tackle it as aggressively as I could, and because I had no fish in my tank and the filter had not cycled yet, I could afford to take somewhat more extreme measures than if you had to worry about the fish or the nitrifying bacteria. So here's what I did, which ultimately worked very well, so others may want to try it. It was adapted from the One-Two Punch Whole Tank Treatment: 

The "One-Two Punch" Whole Tank Algae Treatment

But I was even more aggressive. First, I started with a water change, in which I tried to remove as much of the BGA as possible by hand (it tends to come off in sheets). While the water was low I also spot treated the hardscape with 3% H2O2. Then I refilled the water and dosed both H2O2 AND an Excel overdose. I let it rest for one day and then started a full treatment with Erythromycin, including water changes every other day. On the water change days, I repeated the H2O2 and Excel treatments and continued removing by hand. By Day 3 the difference was remarkable and by Day 6, the tank was spotless. Yes, this was aggressive. Yes, it was probably overkill, but it worked. At this point I also learned that i had made a key rookie mistake. My light periods had been for almost 12 hours straight thru. So I lowered my light period to 8 hours split into two 4 hours sessions and added a daily capful of Excel to my maintenance regiment, and algae has been (mostly, though not entirely) under control since then."

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/12-tank-journals/1061233-17g-iwagumi-style-tank.html

It worked for me. 

As others have noted, I also highly suggest lowering your photo period to 7 to 8 hours a day in two sessions with a break in between.


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