# Green hair tank...



## DaveKS (Apr 2, 2019)

Don’t need 7hrs of midday light cycle, you’ve got 13hr light cycle, 3hr/3hr/3hr should be more than plenty, may still need to shorten even further or cut intensity even more. 

Also with your selection of simple, undemanding plants and small plant load wondering if your dosing to much. How much and how often are you dosing? 

Also what are your phosphate readings after dosing and at end of next day?


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## PollyWaffle (Aug 17, 2019)

Thanks daveKS!! I was wondering why the low tech plants even needed the co2 tbh, and according to one sales person at least the c02 comes hand in hand with the ferts. The bottle says 3 pumps per 100 litres, so I added two pumps with a 25% water change on Thursday, that was when I purchased it. 
I really appreciate your input, I've dialed back the duration and intensity of the lights, Haha I guess I'll mostly see blue fish after work though 😉
Also forgot to add, I dont/didnt realise you could test for phosphate. I should of known there would be many more parameters to check...


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## Blue Ridge Reef (Feb 10, 2008)

Agree photoperiod could be shortened, but there's surely a nutrient imbalance for it to be growing that well. It would be an absolute band-aid solution, but a double dose of Excel x3 days would wipe that right out.


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## Jamo33 (Feb 18, 2014)

"Ada substrate with super sand special," to clarify, does this mean you have amazonia substrate behind the sand at the front? 
If so, depending on the amount of buffering substrate, it will be a constant battle to keep the kh above 0. That is, until the substrates buffering capacity is exhausted. Not that you cant keep kh at 2 with amazonia, it will just require additional kh at every water change. 
Algae can also be enabled by fluctuating conditions, while plants try to adapt to the new parameters, algae sneaks in and gets comfy. Stability is the best start, along with checking your lights as @DaveKS has said. Plus nutrients as mentioned as well. 

If you change too much too fast then it could go the opposite of desired outcome. One change at a time and let it sit. We are looking for a long term solution not a quick fix 🙂


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## tamsin (Jan 12, 2011)

You seem to have quite high TDS for such low GH/KH/Nitrates. What's the TDS of the water you are using to change with e.g. your tap? And what's your water change schedule?

I'd turn your lights right down, take it to 50% or less. They are pretty bright. I think mine are set to about 30% and I still have to watch for thread algae directly under them.


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## Surf (Jun 13, 2017)

This is what I found for LCA with NPK:


> For Advanced Users:
> 3 pumps (6ml) per 100L will yield the following
> Iron 0.50ppm
> Nitrate 7.5ppm
> ...


Note they don't list calcium, sulfur, chloride (chlorine) Plants also need these to grow. Also the fertilizer is probably deficient in magnesium. It should be closer to 1ppm. What is your water source Tap, Softened, or RO water and what are the GH, KH, TDS,PH, readings before you fertilize it and add it to the aquarium? Also can you find a water quality report for your TAP water.

In my experience hair algae thrives in water that is deficient in one or more the 14 nutrients plants need.


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## Desert Pupfish (May 6, 2019)

While you get your parameters sorted out with all the excellent advice you're getting, do you have any other critters besides the otos to help eat the algae you've got? Any snails? Ramshorns, malaysian trumpets etc will rapidly expand their population to eat the available algae supply. If that's more than you want, nerites are good algae eaters and can't breed in freshwater tanks. 

Mollies (esp the P. sphenops) love hair algae--a few of those would help. The various algae eaters (Siamese, Chinese, etc) will all eat it voraciously while young, but only the true Siamese Algae Eaters will stay small and vegan--the rest can grow to 6" or more and become more carnivorous. But they're commonly mislabeled, so it's really hard to know what you're getting. 

I got a bunch of cheap ghost shrimp and they chowed down as well--you could see their bellies turn green. At 50¢ each you could afford a whole herd of 'em to graze your green pastures

We've all been there, and with time & patience and all the good advice on here you'll eventually get it under control. Good luck!


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## DaveKS (Apr 2, 2019)

Yes, as @tamsin said your best solution for viewing time vs tank/plant needs can be balanced out if you think of it as accumulative lighting across a longer photoperiod, 4.5hr morn ramp>3hrs midday at 55%>4.5hr afternoon ramp would still give you 12hrs lighting, you just need to adjust start and end time to your schedule. 

Mine is on that type schedule, comes on 30min before go to work, just time for fish to wake up and give them a small pinch of food right before I leave, then when get home there’s still 2-3hrs left in ramp down cycle. Only time I see midday cycle is on weekends when I don’t work or days when I come home early from work.

I’m under impression these “glow” you had previously were the old t8 fixture/bulbs? You’ve pretty much experienced 1st hand how much more efficient and powerful these new led are compared to that old tech. But with all the programmability of these new led there’s no reason why you can’t get exact same end results. You just should have started low and worked your way up instead of bombing tank with a instant major change in tank lighting levels.

And remember that lighting/co2 and nutrient uptake go hand in hand so you may need to go to 1pump every other day or maybe even go 1 pump daily so levels are more even throughout week with no big spikes, you just have feel your tank out and make small changes, hopefully going in right direction and observe the effect over next week or 2.


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## PollyWaffle (Aug 17, 2019)

☺ wow I woke up and checked this thread and it feels like Christmas! I'm so thrilled and thankful that you have all replied with such great advice, and the good luck messages were touching! I'll try to be more specific with my details and equipment - I'm such a bogan sometimes! Also I apologize for the delay in my replies, I'm stuck down under and it takes longer for the sun to come up 😉 

Ok so; BlueRidgeReef - I was using a product (and slightly underdosing it) called Continuum Aquatics Flora Viv Prolifera in an attempt to control the algae so I didnt need to buy co2, sorry, that's my fault, I didnt mention it in previous post) but it kinda made the algae longer - not bushy but like seaweed. If they are different products I will try the excel 🙂

Jamo33- lol, well its actually called power sand special, and they look like tiny bio balls that go beneath the ada substrate. Promotes bb ect ect (more marketing maybe but they seem legit) 
The sand at the front is la plata from ada and I was told it would be low silicate and essentially quartz. i wanted river rocks but silicates and the risk of unknown dissolvable rocks led me to la plata. I must say though - it does get around the tank! I bordered it with an acrylic edge so it doesn't mix too much with the ada. The cherry barbs look like little chickens packing at it, I'm glad I didnt get rocks 🙂 but your probably ly right with the buffering as the tap water is kh 3. I'm deffinately going to get to the bottom in order to maintain the stability. I agree its essential to any environment and makes me and the fishies happier 🙂 I really believe nutting out these issues is what makes it a rewarding hobby, I'm definitely in it for the long haul!

Tasmin- lol I went a little nutty when the algae was persisting, so I tested my tap water, warm and cold and the my kettle (I know but I was curious at that point ) I even tested the bucket water before putting it in the tank and added everything I could test for together to see if I could work out what made up the tds... I couldnt but I gave it a go. Anyway this is what i found:
Tap water - cold:
TDS: 280ppm
Ph: 7.4
Kh: 2
Gh:6
Nitrates: 0
Nitrite:0 
Ammonia: 0 

Tap water - hot (one of those boilers in the ceiling so I guessed it would be harder water and I mix it with the cold so was worth testing)
TDS: 320ppm
Ph:7.6
Kh: 2
Gh: 7
No nitrates nitrites or ammonia. Tds is crazy though.

And the kettle, cold.
TDS: 300
Ph: 8
Kh: 3 (found some carbonates 😂<a href="http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/images/smilie/icon_wink.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Wink" ></a>
Gh: 6 
Didnt test ammo is nitrates or nitrites I think I was fed up at that point. 

I'll take your advice about the lights and cut then back a bit, especially if yours are around the 30. They are intense hey?! My algae glows...

Surf - I love that it says advanced users, I should return it 🤣 wow so lacking calcium, I'm guessing a cuttle fish will be less stable and probably add more than just calcium? Not sure I want to start playing with that, is there another way to get this into my tank? What about equilibrium by seachem? I was toying with the idea to boost kh but it may help the calcium too? 
The report for my part of adelaides water on the website is in a pic attached, there was allot to copy and you probably understand it better than I do so I'll write the wrong things down - please let me know if you cant open the pic 🙂

DessertPupFish - nerites look amazing! I had a air with snails in one of my old tanks about a year and a half ago and I never wanted to see another snail again, but if they cant breed I will deffinately invest in some. The jollies are adorable too, now I know why everyone has some! I did read about the siamese algae eaters and that's why I got the ottos, but I'm sure hey are more concerned with the bio film than the hair algae, incidentally the wisker shrimp isn't a vego, but he is quite large. Would the glass shrimp become killifish snacks? 

DaveKS - Haha even sillier than the t8, it was a cheap led with about 4 diodes in it - shamefull. But I have it over my orchids and they adore it. It was only 60cm and from an old tank, this planted is 90cm so I needed to upgrade, but I should've deffinately not turned them on 100% - ever 🤣
I agree, 1 pump a day in the morning or half if it's too much, is better than 3 in a water change.

Also cant remember who asked, but the water change schedule is as follows:
Thursday nights (I wont lie it's been Friday a couple of times if I've been knackered on Thursday) I take out 30 litres and siphon gently the top of plants and these days I've been using a skewer to twirl the algae around and remove that too.
I add prime, stability and pristine, last change I added two squirts of lca and a teaspoon of bicarbonate soda. 

I really hope I'm giving enough info, you guys really know your stuff and I'm humbled that your giving your time and experience to help an algae farmer such as myself 😆😉

Oh also! I forgot to add that I have some tufts of hair grass and glossima? That carpet plant is releasing a nice stream of bubbles so its clearly loving the co2 (so much to write I forgot to mention it)


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## Blue Ridge Reef (Feb 10, 2008)

Zero nitrates pop off the chart at me immediately. That lacking nutrient could be explained by the hair algae taking it all in, but there's now none for the plants you are trying to grow. Iron low as well. Hair algae is almost always in tanks overfed/with excess nutrients IME, but NO3 with a zero value *should* mean the GHA has exhausted it. Not a doubt in my mind you could manage it via photoperiod and nutrient control but I'm not sure I wouldn't take my lazy approach of Excel and do a big water change or three when it's gone and start fresh.


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## PollyWaffle (Aug 17, 2019)

Yeah! I know right? When I was seeing holes in the anubis with yellowing I deduced it was zero nitrates and turned off my "catapure" thingo that converts nitrates into nitrogen gas. It works - really far too well for planted. So obliterating the algae with excel then start over with a better knowledge and understanding, more critters to control the algae incase things fluctuate and be patient. Sounds fairly reasonable and achievable 😊 you guys are great!!

Bump: Also I just realised my emogies come out as garble so I will avoid use in the future (clearly n00b)


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## tamsin (Jan 12, 2011)

I think I'd be tempted with the excel too - I know that algae is a bit of a pig to manually remove. It's up to you how much patience you have though - you can try the fixes (nutrients/lower lighting) for a few weeks first and see if you see how it improves. Sometimes it can be satisfying to do it that way even if it takes a bit longer.

On your TDS - if we assume the hot water value of 320 - your tank TDS of 480 is still quite a bit higher. It is probably creeping up gradually from evaporation etc. (pure water evaporates but leaves the contents behind so gets more concentrated as you top up) rather than gravel might be worth doing an extra water change or two just to bring it back a little closer to tap. Then just keep an eye that it stays roughly stable in the tank does keep creeping up. It will always be higher than the tap, you just don't want the two to keep getting further apart.


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## Desert Pupfish (May 6, 2019)

PollyWaffle said:


> ☺ DessertPupFish - nerites look amazing! I had a air with snails in one of my old tanks about a year and a half ago and I never wanted to see another snail again, but if they cant breed I will deffinately invest in some. The jollies are adorable too, now I know why everyone has some! I did read about the siamese algae eaters and that's why I got the ottos, but I'm sure hey are more concerned with the bio film than the hair algae, incidentally the wisker shrimp isn't a vego, but he is quite large. Would the glass shrimp become killifish snacks?


Glass/ghost shrimp can grow up to 2", so depends on how big & aggressive your killifish are. But they're cheap since they're sold as feeders, so if they do end up on your fishes' menu you haven't lost much. They will breed in the aquarium--I've seen eggs from mine but never any babies, so assuming the fishes are eating all the larvae before they grow up. More free live food for my fish, and at 50¢ each it's easy to get more when needed.


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## PollyWaffle (Aug 17, 2019)

Update:
Not sure if anyone has come across this thread with a similar drama, I'll add this somewhere else appropriate also incase it helps some other poor algae grower such as myself 🙂 

The hair is gone! I came, I cried, i conquered! 

I added a co2 tank, bubble counter and diffuser. Then took it out because the solenoid was bung and I couldnt wait for another one on the internet, no one sold one locally in shops or private and I kept forgetting to turn it off... yes yes... I know but the dropper never went past christmas green and the fishies kept on breeding. But I took it out because I dont play the luck game with living creatures 😉 

I changed the fertilizer regime and quantity - 2 squirts with the water change then 1 on the third day. I now only do two squirts (10ml?) With the water change.

But... wait for it... I changed the lights. Yes you were all right. It's the intensity and the duration of the light. The fluval 3.0 is almost too good? So I dulled it to 40% as per the forum advice and then lowered it again to 35% or there abouts, then raised the actual light fitting 5cm off the tank and was patient. I'll screen shot my light schedule as a follow up on the previous screenshot. I will also post an updated pic. 

And presto - 7ish weeks (and 3 of those were trash because of my carbon dementia... ) of being patient, doing the weekly water changes and LISTENING to the forum experts payed off. You guys saved me and my algae farm from many embarrassing "oh no the tank is fine, I'm just erm... dealing with a bad green hair month right now" 

Much love to the wise ones!!! 🙂


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## tamsin (Jan 12, 2011)

Well done! Glad you solved it - tank looks brilliant


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## DaveKS (Apr 2, 2019)

Look’n sweet. Love the play of light and dark with sand along front and bright green tufts up top and the dark shadows casts under lily leaves.


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