# Shrimp population slowly dying



## Yukiharu (May 3, 2014)

Did you get them locally or online? How did you acclimate them? What do they look like dead?
kH/gH look like they're in acceptable ranges but they might need a bit of a boost. pH is a bit low but cherries shouldn't be dying from it. Temp is also a bit high I'd lower it to 74ish to see if that helps. Try doing pH tests at night or before the lights come on and compare (pH swing might not kill them all at once, unlike gassing).
EI might also be problematic since shrimp don't necessarily do well with high fert concentrations, but I don't dose EI so someone else might weigh in on that.

If it helps I got some red cherries from the local pet store and threw them straight in without water acclimation and they're doing fine.


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## Quack (Nov 14, 2016)

Yukiharu said:


> Did you get them locally or online? How did you acclimate them? What do they look like dead?
> kH/gH look like they're in acceptable ranges but they might need a bit of a boost. pH is a bit low but cherries shouldn't be dying from it. Temp is also a bit high I'd lower it to 74ish to see if that helps. Try doing pH tests at night or before the lights come on and compare (pH swing might not kill them all at once, unlike gassing).
> EI might also be problematic since shrimp don't necessarily do well with high fert concentrations, but I don't dose EI so someone else might weigh in on that.
> 
> If it helps I got some red cherries from the local pet store and threw them straight in without water acclimation and they're doing fine.


I get them locally. Float to match temperature, add a cup of tank water to bag, wait 10 minutes, add another cup, put them in.

Most of them have the white line around the midsection of the body.


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## Watercrayfish (Apr 21, 2016)

Agree with the EI dosing part where shrimps wont do good.

Temperature is fine.

White line means they are having problems on molting. And it takes around 1-2 months to wipe out the shrimp colony if the water parameters are not favoring them. (been there, and done that)

Do you know the TDS of your water? It should be around 150-300 range for cherry shrimps.

Recommended GH is 4-8 and KH is 2-5.


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## Jardiamj (Oct 31, 2016)

I haven't had RCS for very long (only for about 5 months), this is my experience based on pure observation, nothing scientific.
I have read conflicting information about them online and they seem to be hardier than people think, I have had them in temperatures ranging from 70°F to 80°F. They seem to be more active and prolific the closer you get to 80°F, I got a population boom that started from 2 females and 1 male, now I have what I guess are about 100 of them.
The only time I observed some deaths was when I switch my aquarium substrate from gravel to Eco-complete and they were due to molting failures, because Eco-complete buffered down my water pH from 8.0 to around 6.6. Adding crushed coral to my HOB filter took care of that and I haven't seen any more molting problems since.
With that said, I think they like a pH above 7 and not so much acidic as I have read. Can you stopped adding CO2 for a bit and see if that has any effect?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## Quack (Nov 14, 2016)

Would switching to pps pro be a good thing to try? 

As far as stopping CO2 to see what that does, I would need to get more shrimp first 😐


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

*I had 8 cherry shrimp on November 11th. Today, I have one. They die one at a time. I have seen lots of saddles on the females, but never any berried females. Some have died while saddled. The one shrimp I have left is a female, and it was saddled one day and then the saddle was gone the next. Again, they have never been berries. *
Any chance they were all females?


*PH 6.4-6.6 (injecting CO2 24/7)*
Generally speaking, you have a shrimp tank or a planted tank. Unless you can do it right, the two don't go well together.

CO2 should be on a timer... to come on 1 hour before lights come on and off 1 hour before lights go off. Running it without lights on can lower the amount of oxygen in the tank and suffocate the inhabitants.

I don't do CO2, but it is from my understanding that it should be at 3 BPS or less for shrimp.


*Nitrate around 40 right before my weekly water change (dosing EI)*
It would probably be better to keep nitrates at or below 20ppm. Knowing the TDS may also be beneficial as shrimp don't do well with frequent and fast TDS changes. On a shrimp tank, it's only recommended to do 10% water changes 2 or 3 times a month. Some people take that to the extreme and do water changes far less and top up with RO water.

The main thing is stability. When you are doing weekly water changes, EI dosing and CO2 injecting, you kind of throw things out of balance....


*KH 5 or 6
GH 5 or 6*
Although it is within what is considered to be acceptable ranges, it may be a good idea to boost the GH up a little if the shrimp are dying due to failed molts.


*Temp fluctuates between 77.5 and 79.0*
A lot of shrimp keepers recommend water around 65-72° F. Lower temperatures mean less chance of bacterial infections and longer lives.

Warmer temps mean the shrimp grow faster, have a bigger chance of bacterial infections and live shorter lives. With everything that's going on in the tank, this could be a possibility. Maybe the shrimp are growing too fast for their exoskeletons, which could be causing molting problems? (just throwing a possibility out there)



*Neon tetras, harlequin rasboras, lemon tetras. Never seen any of them bullying the shrimp. I feed my fish flake and frozen brine shrimp. None of the flake reaches the bottom, some of the brine will and I've seen the shrimp eating it. I try to make as little reach the bottom as possible.* 
Shrimp love biofilm, so as long as there is enough in the tank, they don't need much else... unless you've got a large population that requires supplemental feeding.


*I'm dealing with some green hair algae and greenish water, if that makes a difference. I'm not using any chemicals to kill the algae.*
It can... Algae is fast growing and can consume oxygen in the water. Add in CO2, that's even less oxygen.

What you can try doing is turning off the lights and the CO2, then black-out the tank for 4 days. Use a black garbage bag or a thick/dark blanket. Do a water change before the blackout and one after, and keep an eye on ammonia.

Or you could install a UV sterilizer into the tank temporarily to take care of some of the algae problem, then remove once it's gone.

Or an easier method.... again, requires turning off your CO2, then fill your tank with plants! Get some floaters like duckweed, frogbit, salvinia, etc. Maybe even throw in some hornwort! It may also be beneficial to raise the light on the aquarium or only have the light on for 6-8 hours a day. Better yet, you could set it to come on for 3-4 hours in the morning, have a noon break of 3-4 hours, then have it come back on for 3-4 hours in the evening.




My suggestion though? If you really want shrimp, then set up a shrimp only tank! No CO2, low light plants, minimal, if any, dosing. Keep it simple.


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## bacon5 (Jul 25, 2011)

Yep as mentioned before, sounds like it is a molting problem. I would suggest looking at your TDS. You can buy a cheap meter for <$10 on ebay or amazon.


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## Quack (Nov 14, 2016)

Just ordered a TDS meter. 

Any thoughts on PPS and shrimp?


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

You could always look into NA Thrive/Thrive+ or one of the shrimp safe fertilizers??? Maybe something like Borneo Wild Lush, ShrimperNet or SL-Aqua?


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## Yukiharu (May 3, 2014)

Zoidburg brings up a lot of good points. EI dosing is probably your issue and I'm betting it's putting your parameters out of whack and giving you the algae. Again, however, I don't do EI dosing.
I'm curious what water you are using for your tank and what your water changes are like. IIRC EI dosing requires a lot of water changes.


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## Quack (Nov 14, 2016)

I use tap water treated with API Stress coat plus, heated to the same temp as my tank. I take it from a faucet that doesn't go through our water softener. I do a 50% WC every Sunday.


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## Quack (Nov 14, 2016)

Zoidburg said:


> You could always look into NA Thrive/Thrive+ or one of the shrimp safe fertilizers??? Maybe something like Borneo Wild Lush, ShrimperNet or SL-Aqua?


I already have the dry powders from EI, and I'm still on the first batch of solution I made from them.


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

You are better off setting up a shrimp only tank without all the high tech stuff.... seriously. Most shrimp keepers do not recommend more than 20% water changes on a shrimp tank! That's just a lot of stress you are putting on them.


Here's a very simple and basic setup for neos, although it's still a good idea to cycle the tank with ammonia to establish plenty of bacteria, the Bacter AE kind of does the same thing.


https://youtu.be/NTdBnDLt-Is


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## Yukiharu (May 3, 2014)

Ah...
There's a few issues it might be and it could be any or many of the causes mentioned already.
Just to add another to the pile: heated water can have more copper in it so use cold water.


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## Quack (Nov 14, 2016)

Yukiharu said:


> Ah...
> There's a few issues it might be and it could be any or many of the causes mentioned already.
> Just to add another to the pile: heated water can have more copper in it so use cold water.


I heat up cold water on a stove.


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## Digitalfiend (Aug 29, 2014)

I'm surprised to read that RCS have problems with lower PH. I run 6.3-6.4 (7.6 tap water PH + CO2 injection) in my 60H and my RCS have bred like crazy - I probably have around 150-200 now! I keep the tank at 25.5-26C (~78-79F).


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

Digitalfiend said:


> I'm surprised to read that RCS have problems with lower PH. I run 6.3-6.4 (7.6 tap water PH + CO2 injection) in my 60H and my RCS have bred like crazy - I probably have around 150-200 now! I keep the tank at 25.5-26C (~78-79F).


I'd say you are doing something right then! Many cherry shrimp don't like CO2 or extremely low to nil KH water. They generally breed better in higher pH with higher KH.


Perhaps the reason is because it *IS* tap water with KH and not remineralized RO water? Or a tank without buffered soil?


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## torque6 (Jun 7, 2008)

Hello, I referred back to your thread in Nov. Is that the 20G setup for your shrimps as well?

If that is so, your plant mass is less than 15% of the tank, don't think you need to dose EI nor have co2 running 24/7.... maybe 1/3 dose of EI.

Agree with Zoidburg on several points. It is very good advise.


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## Digitalfiend (Aug 29, 2014)

Zoidburg said:


> I'd say you are doing something right then! Many cherry shrimp don't like CO2 or extremely low to nil KH water. They generally breed better in higher pH with higher KH.
> 
> Perhaps the reason is because it *IS* tap water with KH and not remineralized RO water? Or a tank without buffered soil?


I'm still new to the hobby so whatever I'm doing isn't intentional! haha. KH of the tank water is 2-3, GH 4-5. Using Aquasoil powder+normal and power sand underneath. Initially, we started with 20 RCS, about 12 died, then once the tank stabilized more, the population exploded. Now we have more than we know what to do with - so much that I think it is freaking out the pygmy cories/ember tetras! 

I've also been putting them in other tanks. My Mini M now has 20 RCS and that tank has KH 3/GH 5/TDS 270/PH 6.5-6.6, CO2 injection, aquasoil, heavily planted, with aeration at night. The shrimp seem fine in there too, but they also came from a similar tank and are probably 2nd or 3rd generation. Maybe to thin the population I should start selling them as CO2/low-PH adapted RCS! :grin2:


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