# New tanks, plants melt - lighting issue?



## callisto9 (Aug 26, 2012)

My 20G tank has been setup for 5 days now. 

The following plants are experiencing melt:
Crypts - completely toast. Came from LFS five days ago.
Water wisteria - melt on tips. Came from my 6G tank. Was doing great in there. 
Anachris - starting to melt. Came from my 6G tank. Was doing great in there. 
Val - Some is melting. Came from LFS five days ago.

My 6G tank is completely cycled with a florescent light and no ferts. 
My 20G Marineland tank has LEDs and I'm using Flourish root tabs. 

Current tank parameter (still cycling):

Temp - 79F
Ammonia - .25ppm
Nitrite - .50oom
Nitrate - 5ppm
pH - 8.2
Lighting - 2 x 18W T5 HO (1 x 6,000k and 1 x Roseate)
Substrate - Eco Complete
Fertilizers - Flourish root tabs
Other Plants - Marimo moss balls, java fern, amazon sword, anubias

I don't want to lose anymore plants! I spent a lot of money and it's killing me to see them dying off. :icon_cry:

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I think the LED lighting is not good for this tank, but I'm really stumped on what to upgrade to.


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## mitchfish9 (Apr 30, 2012)

Is this tank a 20 gallon long or tall?

the T5HO's are probably too much for a tank without CO2. T5 NO or t8 would be a better choice for a low tech tank. And you may need to plant heavier as well as it helps kick start a low tech tank sooner.


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## sp33drhno (Jan 8, 2009)

it's perfectly normal for plants to melt when first planted. crypts are especially prone to melt. in my experience some crypts will lose all their leaves, but new growth will show up a week or two after planting. i wouldn't be too worried unless the entire plant has turned to mush. sometimes it takes some time for plants to transition to a new tank.


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## callisto9 (Aug 26, 2012)

mitchfish9 said:


> Is this tank a 20 gallon long or tall?
> 
> the T5HO's are probably too much for a tank without CO2. T5 NO or t8 would be a better choice for a low tech tank. And you may need to plant heavier as well as it helps kick start a low tech tank sooner.


Right now it's just got the stock LED lights on it. It's a 20G tall. I would like to upgrade the lights, but all the stuff I've looked at, would leave the top open with no covering. 



sp33drhno said:


> it's perfectly normal for plants to melt when first planted. crypts are especially prone to melt. in my experience some crypts will lose all their leaves, but new growth will show up a week or two after planting. i wouldn't be too worried unless the entire plant has turned to mush. sometimes it takes some time for plants to transition to a new tank.


The crypts are completely gone. The whole plant turned to mush.

What's weird is that all the stuff I planted in my 6G tank did great. Most of the stuff planted/transplated into my 20L is not doing well. 

Thank you both for your help. This was my tank the day I planted everything. Two crypts in front are gone now.


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## BBradbury (Nov 8, 2010)

*Aquatic Plants*

Hello cal...

The more "bells and whistles" you add to your tank, the more the potential for something to go wrong. 

I've grown low to moderate light plants in my tanks for several years and I can tell you what I know.

Always review the lighting requirements of your plants before you buy them and provide that amount. Plants take weeks if not a couple of months to get used to tank conditions, some don't.

If you keep to those plants that require low to moderate light, then you won't need fancy ferts or lighting. I use a couple of T5, 28 watt bulbs in my tanks. I use a little liquid fert a couple of times a week when I top off the tanks, but mostly the ferts come from all my fish.

I change out half the tank water every week to maintain the nitrates, phosphates and sulfates the plants need.

Low to moderate light stem plants do better floated. If you plant them, then the lower leaves get too much shade and die. Floating exposes the entire plant to the light. Just seems to work better.

This is all I can recall. Hope some of it is helpful.

B


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## callisto9 (Aug 26, 2012)

Thank you for your advice. I really appreciate it. All of the plants I got are supposed to be low light and easy. That's why I chose them. 

My question is this: are these LEDs going to be enough to even grow low-light plants? They're just the LEDs that came in the Marineland hood.


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## potatowned (Oct 9, 2012)

mitchfish9 said:


> Is this tank a 20 gallon long or tall?
> 
> the T5HO's are probably too much for a tank without CO2. T5 NO or t8 would be a better choice for a low tech tank. And you may need to plant heavier as well as it helps kick start a low tech tank sooner.


I am planning on setting up a 20g and I have dual T5 HO 24 watt lights. Would that be too much light if I don't plan on using CO2? Would I get an algae overload?


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## callisto9 (Aug 26, 2012)

I'm really lost on the lighting issue and how I would cover the top of my tank once I pick a fixture. Most of the solutions I see clip to the sides, which means I couldn't have something covering the top. Wouldn't fish occasionally jump out?


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

I have one of these on my tank. It really lowers evaporation and the fish can't get out.
http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=11252588

If I had to guess I'd say your LED's aren't enough light. A basic fixture is very dim for plants. My Crypts occasionally melt a leaf when it's on the bottom and is blocked by all the others above it. 

I have overkill on my 20g tank for lighting, a 2x24 T5 HO fixture. I use one bulb at a time with two layers of fiberglass window screen inside the splash guard, 4 inches above the water surface to get low light. The light came with plastic brackets and it just sits on top of the glass top. A 5000k bulb is on when I'm at work, then I switch to a 6500k bulb for viewing when I get home. It's been working for me. Here's a thread with a picture to see how the light is sitting. http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=192323

I hope this helps you some, I'm no expert.


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## callisto9 (Aug 26, 2012)

Thanks for the tip. That's the kind-of thing I'm looking for. I wish my LFS was open nights. I always have to wait until Saturday to go.

Your tank looks good!


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

Thanks for the compliment. I never really liked the rock formation on the left, and I am thinking of getting an Anubias on driftwood from AquariumPlants.com to replace it, and fill in where some of the Cabomba were. 

If you get that Aqueon hood, the plastic part would be pretty hard to cut without the right tools I would think. I used an X-acto razor saw, but I think a hacksaw would work. I just cut off one end just long enough so the filter and heater would fit, and cut off a notch in these two thin ridges on top of the strip, so the light bracket would sit flat. There is a small gap in front of the filter, but it would take some fish to jump up through the filter stream.

Good luck!


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## callisto9 (Aug 26, 2012)

All my plants are still doing really poorly. The anachris is almost totally toast. All my anubias are showing damage - yellow spots with brown around them. Val is disintegrating. Water wisteria is still melting.

I got this today and replaced the LED hood:
http://www.aqueonproducts.com/products/fluorescent-deluxe-full-hoods.htm

This is so disappointing. 

Tomorrow, I'm removing most of the plants - all they are doing is dying in there.


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

Glad to see you replaced the lights, hopefully that will do the trick. I checked into Marineland LED's before I went with flourescents.

Don't be disappointed. This is a vast lesson in biology, and so many things can go wrong. Just keep learning. Give the damaged plants a chance, they may make a comeback unless they are complete mush.


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

I just checked out Aqueon hoods a little, yours has three bulbs as stated on that link you sent? You might not be out of the woods yet if it has only one basic bulb.


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## callisto9 (Aug 26, 2012)

One bulb on mine. A 15-watt 8000K full spectrum bulb. 

All my plants are low-light. 

I took out everything today and pruned/picked and replanted. We'll see. It looks tons better already, but I hope everything doesn't die again!


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## callisto9 (Aug 26, 2012)

Wannaberooted said:


> Glad to see you replaced the lights, hopefully that will do the trick. I checked into Marineland LED's before I went with flourescents.
> 
> Don't be disappointed. This is a vast lesson in biology, and so many things can go wrong. Just keep learning. Give the damaged plants a chance, they may make a comeback unless they are complete mush.


Thanks for your help and advice.  I forgot to say that!

This has been frustrating for me, but I'm trying so hard to be patient. This is my 3rd tank in less than 3 months (only planning on maintaining one, sold the first), so I very quickly wanted to do things right.


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

Have you noticed any improvement? I'm still worried that your fixture would need two bulbs of that type to get to low light.


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## callisto9 (Aug 26, 2012)

Wannaberooted said:


> Have you noticed any improvement? I'm still worried that your fixture would need two bulbs of that type to get to low light.


There are leaves growing back on each of the crypts. I don't see any more NEW plant melting, so I think we might be on the upswing here.

I found a really helpful chart and I think I'm doing OK, for now. I could always add an extra light if need be.


Thanks for posting!


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

That's a good sign, that's great. So much depends on ballasts, reflectors, etc., lighting has been the most confusing thing to me so far. I've had aquariums on and off over the years, just not with plants. They are harder than fish I think.


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## callisto9 (Aug 26, 2012)

Wannaberooted said:


> That's a good sign, that's great. So much depends on ballasts, reflectors, etc., lighting has been the most confusing thing to me so far. I've had aquariums on and off over the years, just not with plants. They are harder than fish I think.


It's been really hard. I do agree - the plants are harder than the first. My first aquarium (only three short months ago) was nearly all plastic and rainbow-like, but as soon as I saw a planted tank, I knew that's what I wanted.


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

yeah, real plants rule. The fish seem so much more active and happy. I did lose a bunch of Temple plants in the beginning, and the Cabomba has been a chore, but the rest of them are doing well now that I kinda know what I'm doing.


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## callisto9 (Aug 26, 2012)

I agree! Being a gardener and a fan of all things living, I can't believe I even purchased plastic plants. I just didn't know!


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

Well, plastic is easy. I had a bad experience when I was a kid on my first 10g tank with real plants which kept me from them for too long. Tons of algae and snails, I just didn't know what I was doing. It's been a fun ride though the last few months learning. The internet is a great thing, but sometimes there is too much information to weed through.


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## callisto9 (Aug 26, 2012)

Wannaberooted said:


> Well, plastic is easy. I had a bad experience when I was a kid on my first 10g tank with real plants which kept me from them for too long. Tons of algae and snails, I just didn't know what I was doing. It's been a fun ride though the last few months learning. The internet is a great thing, but sometimes there is too much information to weed through.


Yes, plastic is very easy. I'm glad it exists, but it's just not for me. 

I do have tons of snails, but I'm a rarity in that I like them. A lot. 

Yes, I do feel overwhelmed by the amount of conflicting info on the internet about aquarium keeping. There are TONS of forums and tons of advice and they don't always match up. I'm getting the hang of it, but it's been a lot harder than I thought it would be.


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

I have some pond snails that hitched a ride on the plants when I got them, but they aren't out of hand. There isn't much algae so they have been growing very slow. I don't mind them, their numbers aren't even close to what I had as a kid.

They may be growing soon though, as I have a bunch of Crypts melting overnight.

Three things have changed recently. I'm trying to treat a wounded Gourami, so I've been using Stresscoat every other day and more frequent 25% water changes. Finally, last night, I turned on both bulbs to try to get a good picture of the wound, and forgot to turn one back off again for a couple hours. It was probably in the high light range, and I've read light fluctuations can trigger it. Who knows what happened, maybe they need some fertilizer. More reading for me, I hope things have still stabilized for you.


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## zoragen (Nov 3, 2009)

Callisto - nice job!

I'm still fairly new & I'm currently battling a bit of algae so no expert advice here

But I feel your pain. It's frustrating when things go wrong and figuring out the lights/ferts etc. has given me trouble.

I have a 20L w/ 1 T8 light over it & low light plants.

Crypts, anubias, java fern & micro-sword (or dwarf sag. I'm not sure!)

I've had the micro-sword (I'm pretty sure that's what it is) for a few years & it was always a little clump of grass. It never grew - didn't die - just existed.

It was in my super low light 6 gal for almost 2 yrs & I moved it to the 20 gal. 

It still didn't do anything for 9 months - then bam!! it started growing & spreading. 

I'd been dosing liquid ferts after a water change the whole time. The fish had been in for at least 7 months.

And all of a sudden the plant is happy!!

I have no idea what I "did" since I hadn't changed anything.

My under water garden is a lot like my outside garden. This year I had a white snap dragon come up & we haven't had snap dragons for 3-4 years!

Plants are amazing


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## callisto9 (Aug 26, 2012)

Plants ARE amazing!

Things are stabilizing in my tank. My anubias don't look great, but they're not getting worse. Everything is ok for the time being.

I was wondering though, can I get a higher wattage bulb? Right now, I just have the one fixture. Would be easier to get a higher wattage bulb rather than adding another fixture (and having to re-do my whole top). I know there's a bulb specifically for plants for my Aqueon top fixture, so I might try that, too. 

Thanks for the help everyone. 

Here's where I'm at now:


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

Your tank looks good I think, I was expecting worse.

The wattage depends on the ballast, and I doubt you can upgrade the bulb. I'm no expert however. The plants might appreciate a bulb with more red to it though.

All my Crypts beside the spiralis have lost half their leaves now. I still don't know what's happening. Most people say don't worry, it will come back from what I've read, but there must be some cause. I need to learn more about fertilizers, so far I've added nothing. At least all the other plants seem fine.


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## callisto9 (Aug 26, 2012)

Thanks! I did prune, trim and cleanup the whole tank last weekend. Got all the dead stuff out. 

I got some brazilian pennywort today in the mail and also have a bunch of bacopa and ludwigia to plant this weekend. 

Here's the tank as of tonight:









And here's the plants I'm going to tackle this weekend:









I can't wait until I have extra plants to share some day...


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

By that chart made by Hoppy, I'm not even sure you need to get a brighter light, maybe just a 6.5k bulb. My 5k bulb is too red and kinda dark for my taste, but I don't see it when I'm at work anyway. Your pictures look about the same as mine as far as brightness, and he helped me fine-tune my lights with the window screen.

I'm looking forward to seeing it after you are done planting, and they have a few months to grow.


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## callisto9 (Aug 26, 2012)

Wannaberooted said:


> By that chart made by Hoppy, I'm not even sure you need to get a brighter light, maybe just a 6.5k bulb. My 5k bulb is too red and kinda dark for my taste, but I don't see it when I'm at work anyway. Your pictures look about the same as mine as far as brightness, and he helped me fine-tune my lights with the window screen.
> 
> I'm looking forward to seeing it after you are done planting, and they have a few months to grow.


This light does put off a weird cast, I think. I'm going to try the one for planted tanks made by Aqueon. I think the light might be ok, too. 

I've read through some of that thread and it just totally loses me! LOL

If I can get away with this, I'd be happy. I just bought the hood and light fixture (came together) and don't want to have to redo with another hood again. I took off the stock LED hood that came with this Marineland tank. 

I will definitely keep pics updated.

I started an official journal thread here: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=194556


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

Cool, I'll keep an eye out for updates.

After some conflicting advice, I over-upgraded my light, when now I think my stock light that came with my kit probably would have been fine with a redder bulb. Live and learn, someday a 55 gallon will come into being, high light and CO2, and I'll just buy another 2x24 T5 HO and I'll be all set.


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## callisto9 (Aug 26, 2012)

Wannaberooted said:


> Cool, I'll keep an eye out for updates.
> 
> After some conflicting advice, I over-upgraded my light, when now I think my stock light that came with my kit probably would have been fine with a redder bulb. Live and learn, someday a 55 gallon will come into being, high light and CO2, and I'll just buy another 2x24 T5 HO and I'll be all set.


I can say with confidence that a 20G is all the bigger I'll go. I'm stoked to have this, but we just don't have the room. I love the big tanks though. Hell, I love looking at almost any tank, really.


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

Yup, any tank is a good tank. I was in Gatlinburg, TN in August, the Ripley's Aquarium there is very cool. You get to walk right through the 500,000 gallon tank in an acrylic tunnel.

There's so many cheap aquariums on Craigslist that I can't resist a 40-55 gallon someday. I have this old Murphy bed alcove where the 20g is in now, it's begging for something bigger. Bigger is easier to maintain water conditions also I hear, and then I could get some bigger fish.


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## callisto9 (Aug 26, 2012)

Yes yes yes, to all of that. A Murphy bed! I'm not old enough to have lived in place with one of those (I think), but I know what they are! I always thought the idea was a cool one. 

Even doing water changes in the 20 is a pain. But once everything is established I'm sure it'll get better. Moving stuff around and planting plants is such a mess on my hardwood floors.


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

Well, I'm not nearly as old as my apartment thankfully, or I'd be dead. The alcove is about six feet wide, and two feet deep.

I've got my 25% water changes down to 20 minutes, using two five gallon buckets, a Top Fin gravel cleaner with a very nice self starting siphon, and a one quart cup to put water back in slowly. I think I'm going to get a wooden bar stool so I can put a bucket on top of it and siphon water back in as well.


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## callisto9 (Aug 26, 2012)

Wannaberooted said:


> Well, I'm not nearly as old as my apartment thankfully, or I'd be dead. The alcove is about six feet wide, and two feet deep.
> 
> I've got my 25% water changes down to 20 minutes, using two five gallon buckets, a Top Fin gravel cleaner with a very nice self starting siphon, and a one quart cup to put water back in slowly. I think I'm going to get a wooden bar stool so I can put a bucket on top of it and siphon water back in as well.


I have a cheapo siphon I got off eBay. It works really well. I have a 3 gallon bucket. I put the water back in with an old milk jug. Takes awhile. I like the idea of siphoning back in via the same big bucket. I've found the siphon doesn't work as well unless the END bucket is lower than where you're siphoning from. 

I think my water changes seem more like a pain right now 'cause I'm planting plants and rearranging, too.


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

Yup, the water getting siphoned always needs to be above the container it is filling. The siphon will stop when the levels of the water are at an equal height.

I also have checking into a cheap water pump on the back burner.

Now that I don't have much Cabomba left, I have much less cleaning out plant matter when I do a water change.

Did you get some planting done today, or did you just bask in your progress?


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## callisto9 (Aug 26, 2012)

Wannaberooted said:


> Yup, the water getting siphoned always needs to be above the container it is filling. The siphon will stop when the levels of the water are at an equal height.
> 
> I also have checking into a cheap water pump on the back burner.
> 
> ...


I did plant some today - some red ludwigia, ludwigia repens and some bacopa. I got a pinch of duckweed, too, so I threw that in. I really like the brazilian pennywort, too! I put that in yesterday. 

Then I basked. A whole lot of basking too place. 

All my plants are doing much better! I need to go post some pics in my thread...


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## Wannaberooted (Jun 24, 2012)

And bask you should. I bask all the time, it makes the effort worthwhile

Ahh, you have big nice snails, I have a bunch of 1/8" pond snails. I still don't mind them, they don't hurt anything.


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## callisto9 (Aug 26, 2012)

Wannaberooted said:


> And bask you should. I bask all the time, it makes the effort worthwhile
> 
> Ahh, you have big nice snails, I have a bunch of 1/8" pond snails. I still don't mind them, they don't hurt anything.


The pond snails, I don't like. The ramshorns, I love ('cause they are cool colors). 

The mystery (apple) snails I LOVE LOVE LOVE. They are so cool. But they poop lot. And it's gross!


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