# Choosing Bio-Balls Over EHEIM Substrates?



## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

My filter needs some new media. Well, not new really. More like some actual media as it currently only has a little bit of mechanical media.

Anyway, I have been looking around for some biological/large partical mechanical medias. The obvious choice would be some media such as EHEIM Substrate Pro or Seachem's Matrix medias. They are however, rather expensive when you take into account how much I would need to fill my large SunSun HW-302. That is when I thought of bio-balls. However, I have heard that they are nowhere near as effective and usable as the other pebble-like media. Here is what I have gathered so far when it comes to pros and cons to each type of media.

*Pebble-like Media 
*​
Pros


Very effective for the first several months
Small size let one pack it in tightly
Cons


Price
Inner pores clog up and become inactive bacteria wise after a few months
*Bio-Balls*​

Pros


Unique shape oxygenates water
Price
No need for replacing
Cons




Less space for bacteria
Rather large and bulky


Am I right here? Are bio-balls better (in most scenarios) than other "pebble-like" medias? And finally, which should I choose for my canister filter?


----------



## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

I'd just use pot scrubbies. 2 things that people seem to not understand. 1) Regardless of how much surface area you have for bacteria, there is only X amount of bacteria in a tank. 2) In planted tanks, plants consume ammonia faster than bacteria. Thus there is likely less bacteria in a planted tank than a normal tank. 

These people who put gallons of bio media in their tank are wasting time, money and space. They do not gain more bacteria just because you have more biomedia. Also, in a canister, you will not "oxygenate" the water because of the design of a bioball. there is no oxygen in there. It is a closed canister. 

Any porous material will do just fine for our purposes. Alternatively, anything with decent surface area. Biobale, pot scrubbies, etc. i don't care what anyone says about "x has 223423 times more surface area". I don't care....

Bioballs are just another way to make money for these companies. They aren't superior.


----------



## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

Bio balls are mostly used in wet/dry sumps 
They wouldn't be as effective in a canister. But I agree with what Justin said.


----------



## Patriot (Dec 22, 2010)

So I should use pot scrubbers instead of bio balls?


----------



## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

Patriot100% said:


> So I should use pot scrubbers instead of bio balls?


They're cheaper and do the job just fine. If you haven't bought bioballs, there isn't a good reason to buy them, particularly for use in canister filters.


----------



## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

OverStocked said:


> They're cheaper and do the job just fine. If you haven't bought bioballs, there isn't a good reason to buy them, particularly for use in canister filters.


And they come in different colors!


----------



## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

OverStocked said:


> ...Regardless of how much surface area you have for bacteria, there is only X amount of bacteria in a tank....


roud:

I used Bio-balls for a Reef tank I build in 1985. I knew two other guys that used plastic shot shell wads and another used lava rock. We all had effective filters. The marine fish distributer use a sand filer made of crushed coral frags about 1 size staked up to in an egg crate in a sump tub. He had 3 lines of holding tanks and each had this set up. i went on a back yard garden pond tour a few years ago and saw a filter that was just a wooden box with pink fiber glass house insulation.

Really just about anything that has surface area for a bacteria culture will work. I think it's more a matter of how hard you want to work maintaining the filter.

These days all I use is 10PPI Foam sponge. Squeeze it out in a the Water change bucket...done!

In many planted tanks the filter is more about water movement than filtration.


----------



## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

Basically the more media you have won't increase your amount of bacteria right? You would have to feed your fish more, thus more ammonia, thus more bacteria correct?


----------



## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

jkan0228 said:


> Basically the more media you have won't increase your amount of bacteria right? You would have to feed your fish more, thus more ammonia, thus more bacteria correct?


100% correct.


----------



## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

OverStocked said:


> I'd just use pot scrubbies. 2 things that people seem to not understand. 1) Regardless of how much surface area you have for bacteria, there is only X amount of bacteria in a tank. 2) In planted tanks, plants consume ammonia faster than bacteria. Thus there is likely less bacteria in a planted tank than a normal tank.
> 
> These people who put gallons of bio media in their tank are wasting time, money and space. They do not gain more bacteria just because you have more biomedia. Also, in a canister, you will not "oxygenate" the water because of the design of a bioball. there is no oxygen in there. It is a closed canister.
> 
> ...


So, there will only be XXXXXX number of bacteria in my aquarium? How does that work? Do you mean that there is only so much food/space for bacteria to use, and that is the limiting factor? If not, what is?

Whoops about the whole "oxygenating" thing. I forgot that that would only work in wet/dry filters. Replace that statement with "steady flow rates," as the shape of the bio-ball keeps dertrius from building up and slowing down the filter.

How much do those pot scrubbers cost? Last time I checked, I can get plenty of bio-balls for my canister for about $10. 



jkan0228 said:


> Bio balls are mostly used in wet/dry sumps
> They wouldn't be as effective in a canister. But I agree with what Justin said.


The fact that they are really only used in wet/dry filters is what had me questioning their usefulness underwater.... Thanks for the input!!


----------



## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

Over the past few months, when I read through threads like this, I've talked about how I'd like to fill a basket in my canister with matchbox cars, just to make a point (that it really doesn't matter what you use for bio filtration). Next time I clean out my canister, I'll go ahead and do it.

Now I just need to find some matchbox cars. Or Legos, maybe.


----------



## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

Plastic pot scrubbers you can usually get from a dollar store for 6 to 12 for a $1. I also use lava rock. My one turtle filter is full of plastic pot scrubbers and lava rock and turtles have a huge bioload (think hundreds of fish), keeps his water crystal clear. My female turtle tanks had some bio media and the rest pot scrubbers and lava rock. Crystal clear water and shes twice the size of him, (think 500+ fish bioload). I agree, it doesn't matter.

I am picking up this badboy setup tomorrow and if it didn't already come with the bioballs, it would be full of plastic pot scrubbers.


----------



## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

RipariumGuy said:


> So, there will only be XXXXXX number of bacteria in my aquarium? How does that work? Do you mean that there is only so much food/space for bacteria to use, and that is the limiting factor? If not, what is?
> 
> Whoops about the whole "oxygenating" thing. I forgot that that would only work in wet/dry filters. Replace that statement with "steady flow rates," as the shape of the bio-ball keeps dertrius from building up and slowing down the filter.
> 
> ...


Bacteria quantities are dependent on the food that feeds them: ammnoia-nitrite. So you could have 123123 gallons of bio media with super high surface area and you'd still have the same amount of bacteria as a tank with only 1 liter of biomedia made from shredded bottles... 

Bioballs are a poor choice in a canister. They take up a lot of room for their surface area and are actually still expensive, compared to equal options like biobale or pot scrubbies. They are a dollar for 6 at dollar general. 

Seems people really want to over complicate this. I promise, it isn't this difficult.


----------



## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

kevmo911 said:


> Over the past few months, when I read through threads like this, I've talked about how I'd like to fill a basket in my canister with matchbox cars, just to make a point (that it really doesn't matter what you use for bio filtration). Next time I clean out my canister, I'll go ahead and do it.
> 
> Now I just need to find some matchbox cars. Or Legos, maybe.



I use hydroton, for hydroponic systems in one filter. It comes in 50 liter bags for like 20 bucks... 

In another I used beads from my kids craft box. 

In another pot scrubbies. 

In the last, I used plastic milk bottles shredded up in an industrial paper shredder. 

This isn't rocket science, like so many would like you to think.


----------



## Patriot (Dec 22, 2010)

what if we use those bio media starters to add more bacteria, will they just die off if competing with the plants?


----------



## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

DogFish said:


> roud:
> 
> I used Bio-balls for a Reef tank I build in 1985. I knew two other guys that used plastic shot shell wads and another used lava rock. We all had effective filters. The marine fish distributer use a sand filer made of crushed coral frags about 1 size staked up to in an egg crate in a sump tub. He had 3 lines of holding tanks and each had this set up. i went on a back yard garden pond tour a few years ago and saw a filter that was just a wooden box with pink fiber glass house insulation.
> 
> ...


So as long as I have surface area, it doesn't really matter? And since I would prefer to not have to open my filter and flow is so important to planted tanks, bio-balls are a good idea? 



jkan0228 said:


> Basically the more media you have won't increase your amount of bacteria right? You would have to feed your fish more, thus more ammonia, thus more bacteria correct?


Makes sense!


----------



## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

RipariumGuy said:


> So as long as I have surface area, it doesn't really matter? And since I would prefer to not have to open my filter and flow is so important to planted tanks, bio-balls are a good idea?
> 
> 
> 
> Makes sense!


You just won't want the ammonia to exceed the surface area for the bacteria but its better to have more surface area just in case you wanna change it up in the future




Patriot100% said:


> what if we use those bio media starters to add more bacteria, will they just die off if competing with the plants?


If they don't have enough ammonia to go around then yes.


----------



## Patriot (Dec 22, 2010)

If all this is true (not saying that its not) what the point of having bio media in a planted tank if the plants do the job better?


----------



## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

OverStocked said:


> I use hydroton, for hydroponic systems in one filter. It comes in 50 liter bags for like 20 bucks...


Are those the little clay like balls? If so how do you like them? Do they crumble at all? I've only seen pictures of them.


----------



## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

Just to further complicate things, let me point out that all mechanical filtration (foam, filter floss, whatever) has a dual role - it's biological filtration, too. Remember, it's submerged, it has lots of surface area, and tank water flows through it.

The only reason I can think of to use a media basket for biological filtration only (bioballs instead of floss, for example) is that we have to periodically rinse out mech media (getting rid of a portion of beneficial bacteria). In a canister, this is less of an issue, since it only happens every month or two (or six). This is also less of an issue in a heavily-planted tank, since there's theoretically less bacteria.

Anyway, to each his (or her) own. For what it's worth, I've read that Amano (who I'm currently watching work his magic on a new tank) utilizes an incredible amount of bio filtration. But he's not the only planted tank master in the universe, just (arguably) the best known.


----------



## Patriot (Dec 22, 2010)

So I could remove my bio media(two baskets) or at least one tray and stuff them with floss instead?


----------



## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

Patriot100% said:


> If all this is true (not saying that its not) what the point of having bio media in a planted tank if the plants do the job better?


They do the job better but they can't handle it all on there own.




Patriot100% said:


> So I could remove my bio media(two baskets) or at least one tray and stuff them with floss instead?


I would leave some sort of bio media and not all at once. Is your tank heavily planted?


----------



## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

Patriot100% said:


> If all this is true (not saying that its not) what the point of having bio media in a planted tank if the plants do the job better?


THere isn't much point. Walstad tanks prove this. Just plant heavily and do good mechanical filtration. A little bio will help, but you can't force bacteria to grow on bio media just because you call it bacteria. Plant leaves, rocks woodd, etc all grow bacteria too.


----------



## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

Patriot100% said:


> So I could remove my bio media(two baskets) or at least one tray and stuff them with floss instead?


Yes, as long as you don't replace them all at the same time.


----------



## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

Patriot100% said:


> So I could remove my bio media(two baskets) or at least one tray and stuff them with floss instead?


Yup, or sponges or whatever. I know a guy who uses a few Rena's on his turtle tanks and just uses sponges, largest pores at the bottom to collect the biggest media and then smaller and smaller up to floss at the top and he has like a 17" snapper and only has to clean them very little.


----------



## Patriot (Dec 22, 2010)

I would like to try this next time I clean out the canister.


----------



## jart (Jan 17, 2003)

OverStocked said:


> THere isn't much point. Walstad tanks prove this. Just plant heavily and do good mechanical filtration.


Interesting statement. I have questioned the need for the "overfiltration" that some planted folks advocate for some time. Of course overfiltration may lead to improved circulation, but at the end of the day why not let the plants take care of things (now of course, this would depend on how heavily the tank is planted and fish load).


----------



## 1987 (Jan 27, 2007)

I made a sump for one of my larger tanks, back in the day. I use pot scrubbers also. You know the drill, just make sure they don't have any micro-bacterial in them. 

I use bioballs now too, but that's because they came with the tank.


----------



## Storm (Aug 7, 2011)

While all of you are correct that the media doesn't matter, I would like to point out that the total surface area does, to some extent.

For example, you wouldn't want to filter a 200 gallon tank with a canister the size of a shot glass. There is some minimum amount of surface area required to house the bacteria colony necessary for each tank. Thus, while the colony will not grow larger than the ammonia source feeding it, it does pay to have a good sized canister, regardless of media, to make sure you have more than enough surface area to cover it.

If you are doing a Walstad tank, throw all of the above advice out, since your plants and substrate are effectively your surface area where all of the bacteria grows.


----------



## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

Storm said:


> While all of you are correct that the media doesn't matter, I would like to point out that the total surface area does, to some extent.
> 
> For example, you wouldn't want to filter a 200 gallon tank with a canister the size of a shot glass. There is some minimum amount of surface area required to house the bacteria colony necessary for each tank. Thus, while the colony will not grow larger than the ammonia source feeding it, it does pay to have a good sized canister, regardless of media, to make sure you have more than enough surface area to cover it.
> 
> If you are doing a Walstad tank, throw all of the above advice out, since your plants and substrate are effectively your surface area where all of the bacteria grows.


Bacteria colonies will grow as large as is necessary to consume available nutrients. Providing a large canister filter increases the concentration of bacteria in the canister. With a shot glass sized canister, there would be a smaller concentration of bacteria in the filter. But the same total amount of bacteria would exist in the tank. Available surface area has no effect on the size of the colony.

A Walstad tank is a dirt tank without a filter. And a Walstad tank, given the same number of plants as a filtered tank, has the same total amount of bacteria.

The purpose of a large filter is loads of filtration, not increased bacteria colony size.


----------



## Storm (Aug 7, 2011)

kevmo911 said:


> With a shot glass sized canister, there would be a smaller concentration of bacteria in the filter. But the same total amount of bacteria would exist in the tank.


Ok, fair enough, the bacteria would just grow on the plants and in the substrate, but I'd just like to caution people with a 200 gallon tank that you might not be ok with just a shot glass sized filter... It's very possible that you wouldn't have enough flow in your tank to get the ammonia to the bacteria that could eat it.


----------



## RipariumGuy (Aug 6, 2009)

As I am reading over this, I am also banging my head against the desk: I knew all this before I posted it! Now I feel really stupid...  (fitting really, because I am!)

I think I am going to try and find some pond sized mechanical media. They would work great for my purposes I think.

Thanks for all the help!


----------

