# Wabi-kusa and Utricularia



## mrbman7 (Mar 22, 2007)

I think that sounds like a great idea! Mind if I copy you? :icon_lol: 

Sounds like you would NOT want RO water. These guys are eating microorganisms, if RO was used there wouldn't be anything for them to eat. That link says to use pond water. I'm certainly no expert but thats just what I gathered from the link.


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

Go to this web page and send the owner an email:
http://carnivorousplantnursery.com/index.htm
He gave a talk at our club last year, he'll tell you which ones would work for your project.


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## mrbelvedere (Nov 15, 2005)

mrbman7 said:


> I think that sounds like a great idea! Mind if I copy you? :icon_lol:
> 
> Sounds like you would NOT want RO water. These guys are eating microorganisms, if RO was used there wouldn't be anything for them to eat. That link says to use pond water. I'm certainly no expert but thats just what I gathered from the link.


No, R/O is what most carnivorous plants need. They come from boggy areas with low pH and typically soft water. R/O isn't 100% pure. It's closer to 95%. Besides, most carnivorous plants can get along just fine with good ol' photosynthesis.


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## mrbman7 (Mar 22, 2007)

I stand corrected. Although, The link he posted leads me to believe that other types of water would be acceptable, which was what his question was. Most pond water wouldn't have very low PH like a bog.


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## mrbelvedere (Nov 15, 2005)

I'm sure if you used an easy to grow type, like U. calcyfida, it would be fine. Many plants and animals can adapt just fine to extremely soft water.

You'd be surprised at how soft and acidic a pond can be. Assuming it doesn't sit on a limestone bed or the surrounding soil is very basic, of course.

Pure rainwater coupled with all that decaying plant matter can dip pH quite low.


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## rain- (Mar 29, 2004)

And if you want to combine aquarium hobby with this, you could use _Utricularia graminifolia_ which grows both emersed and submersed and has nice, I think purple, flowers.


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## mrbman7 (Mar 22, 2007)

mrbelvedere said:


> I'm sure if you used an easy to grow type, like U. calcyfida, it would be fine. Many plants and animals can adapt just fine to extremely soft water.
> 
> You'd be surprised at how soft and acidic a pond can be. Assuming it doesn't sit on a limestone bed or the surrounding soil is very basic, of course.
> 
> Pure rainwater coupled with all that decaying plant matter can dip pH quite low.


Oh I gotcha. I read that here in the PNW rain water has a PH of around 4.5 and the streams are around 6. Lake Washington however is around 8. But as you said, bottom line is these plants prefer lower PH and RO will help achieve that correct?


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## aquanut415 (Jan 21, 2006)

yes they need RO water or very very very soft water to grow well. no mineral salts in the water will be very beneficial.


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## mrbman7 (Mar 22, 2007)

how soft are we talkin?


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## FelixAvery (Jan 11, 2007)

get a softenizer from ada


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## aquanut415 (Jan 21, 2006)

all things are relative.. a little more of this or less of that might make it work without RO water. but consider with these plants regular waterchanges aren't necessary when grown emersed, so you wont need too change much of the water with new RO throughout the lifetime of the tank.

i used to maintain a taxonomic collection while in college, although small, there were lots of butterworts as well as other insectivorous plants. the director was a big proponent of rainwater only for his outdoor insectivorous plants, no ferts/mineral supplementation, and RO for the indoor ones.

it makes a big difference.


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## mrbman7 (Mar 22, 2007)

FelixAvery said:


> get a softenizer from ada



...ok, that really doesn't answer my question. 

I'm just curious how soft we are talking? I happen to have really really soft water coming out of my tap.



aquanut415 said:


> ... rainwater only for his outdoor insectivorous plants, no ferts/mineral supplementation, and RO for the indoor ones.
> 
> it makes a big difference.


Sounds like RO is optimal for the indoor guys

can you use distilled water as a substitute?


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## aquanut415 (Jan 21, 2006)

he only used RO on the indoor ones cause it was a PITA to get rain water into the greenhouse, im sure he would have used rainwater it if it were more readily available year-round.

how soft? i can't say for sure, but i doubt the tapwater in WA is any softer than water in San Francisco, and he wouldn't water the plants with tapwater more than once or twice a year in the middle of summer to prevent complete dessication while he was making more RO (older guy, kinda lazy). he said hard water would stunt the plants or prevent new growth, not kill them.


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## mrbman7 (Mar 22, 2007)

I understand completely. Thanks for the information, it is most helpful.


a side note about the tap water
From Wikipedia:
"Hard water in the US

According to the United States Geological Survey, 85% of US homes have hard water. The *softest* waters occur in parts of the New England, South Atlantic-Gulf, *Pacific Northwest*, and Hawaii regions. Moderately hard waters are common in many of the rivers of the Tennessee, Great Lakes, Pacific Northwest, and Alaska regions. Hard and very hard waters are found in some of the streams in most of the regions throughout the country. *Hardest* waters (greater than 1,000 mg/L) are in streams in Texas, New Mexico, Kansas, Arizona, and *southern California*.[21]"

I'm sure the tap water isn't as hard for you but I have a KH and GH of 1 from the tap.

It's actually is a PITA because i have to add hardness in order to prevent PH swings in my tanks


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## aquanut415 (Jan 21, 2006)

we have water similar to what you stated.... our water comes out of the tap between 0 and 1 KH and GH year round.

sometimes when i test for GH and KH no matter how much water i use, i get 1drop of reactant till i see the color change to the indicator we are looking for, we have very soft water.


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## sandiegoryu (Feb 15, 2006)

Well I have very hard tap water. So I guess that's a quick no no. I was wondering if I could save my water change water but I guess that is a no no as well.

I was actually planing to buy Utricularia Graminifolia from the Carnivorous Plant Nursery and noticed their other species and decided to look into them. I realized they must be perfect for wabi kusa. Do they do well in 24/7 wet soil? I will also look into a cheap RO filter. Perhaps this one? http://freshwaterinverts.com/aquamaxx_wru_ro_barebones.html
I'll look for another place that has the same thing or similar. It seems to do the job and it's half the price of the other ones!

And yes I will send him a message when I have my pot (its in my ceramics class waiting to be fired, then glazed.)

And I'm planning to get graminifolia (for obvious reasons) and perhaps livida and/or sandersonni. Subulata looks pretty nice too... I have two pots in my ceramics class getting ready so I guess I could go for 4 different species, two in each pot. Maybe I won't even make this wabikusa....

O yah and I've read that inert substrate and sphagnum moss works the best. I'm planning to get their stuff on the website.



Any other carnivorous plants that would work well in wabikusa? I'm kind of obesessed now . Sundews would be AWESOME!


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## mrbelvedere (Nov 15, 2005)

That's a good substrate. They love constantly soggy soil, though I believe in order to flower, some of them need a brief dry spell.


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## sandiegoryu (Feb 15, 2006)

bumpity bump bump. Do you know which kinds mrbelvedere? I guess I'll ask the guy on the website.


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## ruki (May 28, 2007)

Note that some Utricularia can grow OK in hard water. Utricularia gibba does well, actually too well, in both my hard and soft water tanks. I haven't gotten it to bloom yet though.

The main problem I've had is that if algae coats it, it can die pretty quickly.

The wabi-kusa theme sounds very interesting to me.

P.S.
Distilled water is purer than RO, but is much more expensive if you need 100 gallons of it. Also, RO is a bit too pure, so you will have to add something to it or mix it with harder water to get something useful for a water change.


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## sandiegoryu (Feb 15, 2006)

Utricularia Gibba is strictly aquatic isn't it? I'm talking about the terrestrial kind that I could put into a wabi-kusa. I know that most aquatic kinds an do well in various waters.

And I think that the soil of peat and sphagnum moss would help contribute into the things that the terrestrial utricularia need in their water.

For a planted tank of course, strictly RO would not be very good...

Thanks for the info and bump though :-D.


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## ruki (May 28, 2007)

Oh, Looks lik U. Gibba is aquatic only.

There was a site about this in case you haven't stumbled across it yet. http://www.islandnet.com/~tmalcolm/cultivation.html

Good list of species and some hints for growing them.


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## sandiegoryu (Feb 15, 2006)

Oh that's an awesome site. Thanks. 

BTW, is your username ruki from The Gazette? Or is it just your name.


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## ruki (May 28, 2007)

re: ruki

This is contraction of a name I have on another forum. It's still all Japanese sounds, so it's no surprise that it is something used by a Japanese visual kei band. I'd probably enjoy seeing them, but it's not from that band.


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