# 5g Low Tech Journal: LLLOOOONNNG Overdue update, WITH PICS!



## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

*Tank Specs*

Equipment
5.5g AGA Tank
Desk lamp with 1 CFL bulb
DIY plexiglass canopy
[STRIKE]Azoo Red Sea Nano filter[/STRIKE] (started leaking)
Ovation 210 Internal Filter 
Air stone

Flora
_Cryptocoryne sp._
_Anubias sp._
Subwassertang

Fauna
1 zebra danio

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[STRIKE]*10g Tank Specs*

_Equipment_
10g AGA tank
Perfect-A-Lite fluorescent Hood w/ Marineland "Natural Daylight" 18" 15w T8 bulb
$11 Wally World Aquatech Filter (with my own media, not the cartridge)
Bubble wall 

_Flora_
_Cryptocoryne undulata
Cryptocoryne wendtii_
Java Fern
Anubias

_Fauna_
7 Beckford's Pencilfish
1 Celestial Pearl Danio
4 Otocinclus cats[/STRIKE]
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*First Post:*

Well I thought I would start a new thread for this tank, even though it is technically the same tank I used for my guppy/endler breeding project, it is no longer a breeding tank, so I feel it deserves its own thread. 

Well I made the bone-head mistake of doing my errands at places that close late on sundays before hitting the pet store so I ended up rounding out some of the supplies for this tank @ wal-mart. This basically just means I bought a crappy filter :tongue: but it was only $11 so i'll just replace it when it breaks in a few weeks. I had extra filter media from when I had to buy a new AC for my 30g but kept the old, seeded, media in it so I used that instead of the filter "Cartridge" it came with. I had black aquarium gravel so for now that is what I am using. I know that inert gravel isn't the best, but I'm on a budget, I had it and it's worked ok in my 5g in the past. the substrate isn't as deep as I'd like so if they have eco-complete when I head out to collect the rest of the things I need I may grab a bag and mix it in. I'll also be adding fert tabs to the substrate. 

At the moment the tank is not planted but it has lots of plants floating in it. I used a piece of seeded filter pad from my 30g tank and the plants are from that tank so that should aid in the silent cycle. 

The tank is home to 3 WCMMs, 3 male endler's livebearers and 1 male guppy, oh and 3 or so RCS. 

Some pictures: 

The filter:









Filter media: 









I didn't have a mesh bag, but had some old filter pad POCKETS (on the R above) so I put the ceramic pellets in there for the time being: 









Seeded filter pad from 30g (YUM! :tongue:









Filled filter:









My awesome temporary lighting consists of 2 lamps from a 5 lamp gooseneck floor lamp :hihi: :









And the tank as it looks now (well almost, I added tinfoil to the top so that WCMM wouldn't jump out):









So I'm off to buy some rocks and/or wood to attach the moss to, need a lid & light or hood for the tank and some fert tabs. As with all of my tanks, this will be a low light, low tech tank.

Stay tuned for updates and a tank that is well, 'scaped


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Way to DIY it! lol

Ya need a hardscape. :smile:

And what light fixture are you going to end up with?


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

lauraleellbp said:


> Way to DIY it! lol


:hihi: thank ya, thank ya! 



lauraleellbp said:


> Ya need a hardscape. :smile:


Hahaha yes I know, I'll be on the hunt for some this evening  



lauraleellbp said:


> And what light fixture are you going to end up with?


Well probably I'll eventually go with a standard 10g flourescent fixture but as cheap as that is (relatively speaking for this hobby that is) it may have to wait until the next paycheck (next week) for the next week or 2 I may just go with a desk lamp with a CFL bulb. I would just keep that permanently, but it won't light the tank evenly and getting into 2 CFLs is getting to be too much light for this looow light lovin' gal! :icon_lol: :eek5: :hihi:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

:redface: well no new pictures yet, the boy and I were feeling under the weather, mostly due to lack of sleep sunday night (he was at the giant's game and didn't get home til 1:30am... i'm not sure why I was still up when he got home...mild insomnia attack i guess so I was busy unpacking some of the last boxes) so by the time i got home from doing errands last night and we'd eaten the chicken soup I brought home we were both pretty much ready to call it a night. 

sigh. 

BUT I did get a nice piece of DW for the tank while I was out that I soaked overnight so that it would sink, i scrubbed it this morning and popped it in the tank. I'll deal with tannins via water changes, it's only a 10g tank after all so water changes are pretty simple. 

I'll try to get pics of the tank with the DW tonight and post them later or tomorrow. I'm going to try to get this guy planted tonight if I can too so I don't lose my plants, they only last so long floating. 

Unfortunately, I totally forgot to go to HD for a piece of plexi to put over top of the tank until my next paycheck (next week) when i can afford a hood or glass canopy & strip light. Normally I'd just leave it open top and not worry, but I hear WCMMs are jumpers, so I'm trying to keep them in the tank :tongue: In the mean time I've jerry rigged something that will let the light through, I've got the canopy from the 5g across the center the wrong way with some saran wrap running across the long way, i needed the center "bridge" so the saran didn't "stick" directly to the water. The goose neck floor lamp will also continue to be the light for the next week - week and a half. It's messy and ugly, but it should do the trick _very_ temporarily.

Ok that's all for now....pics later or tomorrow.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Hahaha, Saran Wrap and Aluminum Foil. Are you baking or planting a tank? Just joking, Kara. I got to hand it to you for the ingenuity you have. You need to update your signature to uncross off your 10 gallon now.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

sewingalot said:


> Hahaha, Saran Wrap and Aluminum Foil. Are you baking or planting a tank? Just joking, Kara. I got to hand it to you for the ingenuity you have. You need to update your signature to uncross off your 10 gallon now.


Hahahaha well I have been in the mood to bake some cookies so maybe my brain is getting confused and befuddled :hihi: 

Thanks, seriously lacking funds but the desire to have a tank seem to foster ingenuity i guess :icon_lol: I'm REALLY frustrated that I can't find any of my desk lamps though :angryfire is it possible I threw them all out before the move?!  Anyway, next week I'll be able to afford a real cover and light for this tank. I needed some new clothes and winter boots so I went on a bit of a shopping spree this weekend which cut into my tank funds :tongue: I threw out (well donated actually) a LOT of clothes before the move though and my feet were getting wet in my sneakers so I actually did need those new things, and shoot if winter boots aren't expensive! 

And you're right, I do need to update my sig!


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

ROFL! Know wonder you have baking supplies on your fish tank. MMMM, cookies and hot cocoa. Great job on the donation of clothes, I am happy to hear you are helping out others. 

You could always saw the goose next down or raise the tank to meet the light. 

With wet sneakers, you'll have wet feet. That is my wisdom for today.


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## Matty (Dec 4, 2009)

Keep with it, there are some really cheap alternatives for lighting!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

sewingalot said:


> ROFL! Know wonder you have baking supplies on your fish tank. MMMM, cookies and hot cocoa. Great job on the donation of clothes, I am happy to hear you are helping out others.
> 
> You could always saw the goose next down or raise the tank to meet the light.


Hahaha that probably IS why I thought to use baking supplies! :icon_lol: I can't wait until we have couches that I can curl up on with cocoa! We do have 1 easy chair....how to distract the boy so I can claim it as my own.......:hihi: 

I could saw it down, but I really will be getting new lighting next paycheck, so i think this will work for now. :tongue:



sewingalot said:


> With wet sneakers, you'll have wet feet. That is my wisdom for today.


ROFL wonderful wisdom, thank you!



Matty said:


> Keep with it, there are some really cheap alternatives for lighting!


Thanks for the encouragement! I'll take any suggestions you can offer! We need new couches eventually so the more $ i can save on setting up the tank, the better, though a hood for a 10g prob won't break the bank once I get paid again, but if I could go cheaper, that would be good too! :hihi:

Ugh...i hate bills and costs that come with a new house, I just want $ for my hobby darnit! :hihi:


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## Moody636 (Oct 24, 2009)

For lighting one of your cheapest bets might be to use the stock walmart hood with spiral CFLs. I'm running 2x20 watts right now with great results, but that would probably be too much light for what you're looking at.

I wound up painting the bottom of the hood white and superglued a halved beer can to use for reflectors/heat shields.


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## angelicodin (Dec 2, 2009)

Remember if you are going to add wood that you boil it in water to remove the tannins. If you don't you'll end up with murky water for a vary long time ;p


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Moody636 said:


> For lighting one of your cheapest bets might be to use the stock walmart hood with spiral CFLs. I'm running 2x20 watts right now with great results, but that would probably be too much light for what you're looking at.
> 
> I wound up painting the bottom of the hood white and superglued a halved beer can to use for reflectors/heat shields.


Hmm yeah I thought about doing this but was worried that it would give me too much light...this is a dumb Q probably but are there lower wattage spiral CFL options? 



angelicodin said:


> Remember if you are going to add wood that you boil it in water to remove the tannins. If you don't you'll end up with murky water for a vary long time ;p


Oh, yeah, I don't do that :tongue: I'll just do water changes and I find adding charcoal helps too. I did this on my 20g and it wasn't so bad, had "blackwater" conditions for a little while, but the fish don't mind it. And with a 10, water changes are so quick, I'd rather get just get the wood in there.....you could call it me being lazy :hihi:


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## non_compliance (Dec 1, 2009)

Moody636 said:


> For lighting one of your cheapest bets might be to use the stock walmart hood with spiral CFLs. I'm running 2x20 watts right now with great results, but that would probably be too much light for what you're looking at.
> 
> I wound up painting the bottom of the hood white and superglued a halved beer can to use for reflectors/heat shields.


 
Hmmm... I like this idea. I will do it. Thanks!


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## daijoubu (Dec 7, 2009)

Karackle said:


> Hmm yeah I thought about doing this but was worried that it would give me too much light...this is a dumb Q probably but are there lower wattage spiral CFL options?


There are. I'm using a pair of 13W 6500k spiral CFLs made by Phillips in my 10g.

I was going to link to the US home depot, but apparently they don't carry as many CFLs as Canada.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

daijoubu said:


> There are. I'm using a pair of 13W 6500k spiral CFLs made by Phillips in my 10g.
> 
> I was going to link to the US home depot, but apparently they don't carry as many CFLs as Canada.


Cool thanks! You know now that I think of it, 13w sounds familiar, I think that's what I usually get...that's the 60w equivalent i think? 

Still, would that make yours a high light tank? I'm looking for low light, medium at the most :tongue:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

I'm back from my nap! :hihi: I hate this unemployment thing....

Anyway, they make 5 watt daylight (6500) bulbs. They replace 15 watt bulbs. They aren't easy to find, but they are out there.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

sewingalot said:


> I'm back from my nap! :hihi: I hate this unemployment thing....
> 
> Anyway, they make 5 watt daylight (6500) bulbs. They replace 15 watt bulbs. They aren't easy to find, but they are out there.


:hihi: and how was the nap? I'm actually jealous, I could totally use a nap today! I'm  I think i just need more caffeine, it could also be that i've been sick and am finally on the mend though :tongue: 

ooooh 5w bulbs, I'll have to look for those! That could work well for me given my phobia of high light tanks! :hihi:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Your phobia is well founded! One false move and BAM! algae.... :biggrin: I found them at lowes in the speciality lighting, they were apart from the others for some reason. Just look for the word daylight to get the 6500K. The nap was great! Thanks for asking, lol.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

sewingalot said:


> Your phobia is well founded! One false move and BAM! algae....


Hahaha and that is precisely the reason I am phobic! Because I am NOT good at keeping to dosing schedules and whatnot....I like my low maintenance....I do water changes monthly at most :hihi:

glad to hear the nap was good! :biggrin: 

Lowes in the specialty lighting, I'll have to remember that! I'll look for them then I just have to compare the cost of an incandescent hood + CFLs vs a regular fluorescent hood.  

Thanks for all of the input on lighting! roud:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

The only problem with the incandest hood is the crappy little opening you get on them. The whole lid doesn't open, just a little door. Makes it a pain for planting, water changes and such.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I bet if you kept an eye on Craigslist you could find a 10gal with a 15 watt flourescent hood/fixture for about as much as 2 new bulbs...


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Very excellent point, Laura! And it's green, too. I know Kara would love that.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Oooh thanks for the suggestion! I totally forgot about CL!!! I will have to check that out, because Sara brings up an excellent point about the incandescent hoods, I think you're right, I'd rather go with a fluorescent hood! And I DO like that it's green, how did you guess?  (though if I don't find what I want in the next few days on CL i'll be happy to purchase new too :hihi

Also, sorry, no updates on this tank, I've been epically failing at getting the planting done. I just got some more new plants from LauraLeeLLBP that i've got to get planted in the 30 and in this tank, I figure weekends are good times for getting this stuff DONE!


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Yes, you have plenty of time. I am just glad to see both you and Laura active on the boards again. It's nice to see you guys bantering again like lifelong friends. :biggrin:


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## F22 (Sep 21, 2008)

i have a reptile dome light over one of my smaller tanks, that worked. hahahaha sooo hood rich!!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Ok, I finally got this tank planted!  There's still no real light on it, but all in good time , as Sara said, I've got plenty of time :biggrin: 

F22 - thanks for the tip, I'll keep it in mind!!! :hihi:

I got some Crypt undulata and java fern from LauraLeeLLBP (thanks again!) that I put to good use in this tank along with some more of the Asian Ambulia and...the...um....something else with little leaves (i'll have to look that up :tongue, and the fissidens moss from SewingAlot (thank you again too!) I also had some flame moss and of course sunset hygro. 

So first I had to attach the mosses and ferns to the DW, here's my setup, you can see my plants, DW, scissors, thread and of course my entertainment  









My helpers, sleeping on the job  

















The finished piece of DW with flame moss on the left, fissidens on the right and java ferns everywhere else: 









Next I set that aside and pulled out the mass-o-plants that had been floating in the tank









Sorted those out









Which left me with a blank (except for loads of tannins) slate (don't worry, I did a 50% water change)









And then I began planting! :biggrin:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

I placed the DW and planted some asian ambulia in the inside of the semi-circle, some of hte plant i need to look up the name of in the back left corner and some crypt undulata on the left side. Next to the ambulia we've got a sunset hygro garden, and then a crypt undulata forest on the right side of the tank. I also planted a little grass plant i have (which i can not remember the name of, it's in my 30g too) on the right there and a few smaller pieces of various other plants in various other locations  

Right now the right looks very bare and probably will need something else even as the C. undulata fills in, but i can't think of what yet. 

Anyway here's how it came out!

FTSs 


















a FTS I accidentally took with the flash on, but it was a good shot of the fish so I figured I'd post it  









Left side









Right side









My ridiculous "cover" to keep the jumpers inside









This tank is in the office along with with my Gecko's terrarium and eventually the 5g (probably betta) tank will be in here as well :biggrin:









You can see this room is a bit of a menagerie (excuse the mess) we've got the 10g on the left, the gecko home on the right and the crate for one of my dogs in the center :tongue:









I would appreciate any and all comments and questions!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

sewingalot said:


> Yes, you have plenty of time. I am just glad to see both you and Laura active on the boards again. It's nice to see you guys bantering again like lifelong friends. :biggrin:


forgot to mention, it's great to BE back on the boards again!!! :biggrin:


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Helloooo tannins! lol

I think it will look nice once it's filled in.

Have you ever posted any pics of your Gecko setup?


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

HAHAHAHA yeah, the water is a little yellow! :icon_lol: (where is that rolling on the floor laughing icon?)

Anyway, thanks so much! I was thinking today that once it has time to grow in a little more in the 30 I might pluck some Crypt wendtii 'bronze' and plant that in the back right and plant the C. undulata in front of it and just leave a crypt forest on the right, with the stems / moss / fern on the left and the open area in the center. I'm excited to see how it looks when i get home today and the plants have (hopefully) straightened up towards the light some too.

Um when I had live plants in the terrarium I did have a thread going about it, but I didn't do so well with that :redface: I seem to have an aquatic green thumb, but not so much a terrestrial one :icon_redf At the moment the leaves in there are from a fake vine. I may try to redo it with live plants, but I may need to get a taller enclosure to have more room for the soil...i'll certainly post if I re-attempt it!


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

LOL I thought from a distance it looked like you had Anubias in there... ever thought about doing some emersed plants in there? Crypts, java ferns, anubias can all be grown emersed...


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## AkCrimson (Dec 17, 2009)

It looks really fantastic! I especially like the wood with the moss and javas on it!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

LauraLee - hahaha no no, not anubias, though i can see why you thought that! I hadn't considered an emersed setup....I imagine I might run into a problem with having enough water in there for them, don't emersed versions of submergible plants still need their roots in water? or am I on crazy pills or just thinking of ripariums? I had originally wanted to make a nice paludarium but the tank i got was really too big and i could never get my walls water tight (i wanted a waterfall feature). One day I might have to try that again. It would be nice to do something else in there though.....

AkCrimson - wow, thanks for the compliments! I liked the way the DW came out too, now lets just hope the mosses fill in nicely!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Just the tiniest of updates, the crypts are doing they're melting thing BUT they are also already putting out new growth :biggrin: so that's good! 

Also, I'd love opinions on whether we think I'm at full stocking capacity or if I have room for a few more fish and what I could add. I'm thinking maybe a few more white clouds and/or a few otos and/or amano shrimp but I'm open to suggestions.


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## Strick (Apr 6, 2009)

If you've got 7 fish and 3 shrimp now you've definitely got room for more. A shrimp's bioload is practically zero, and usually completely compensated by the waste they eliminate because they're such good scavengers. So long as the tank stays planted, you can extend the one-inch-of-fish-per-gallon-of-water rule.

I would, however wait. At least a couple more weeks. That will give your bacteria colonies time to establish in the proper numbers.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Thanks for the input strick  I figure in terms of bioload i'm good with adding a couple amanos and otos, and then on top of that, I think i'd probably be ok with a few more white clouds, but are they my best option? should i go with something else? or if white clouds, how many more? I don't want to crowd them too much, i like to take that into consideration in a small tank, the swimming space as well as the bioload. 

I seeded this tank with a nice dirty spong from my 30g filter, so I think the bacteria should already be pretty well established roud:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Can you say, "HOLY TANNINS BATMAN!" :hihi:










I've gotta get some charcoal in this tank! I think it's also time for a water change :confused1::hihi:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

I like the tea color. Put a betta in there and you won't have to worry about the tannins.


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## biggecko (Aug 30, 2009)

nice tank!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

sewingalot said:


> I like the tea color. Put a betta in there and you won't have to worry about the tannins.


Hahahaha, true enough! But the plants don't look as pretty with the tannins  This tank is way overdue for water change, it's SO tea colored right now! :hihi: but the fish are happy so it's ok  

I bought a light for this tank but got it home and realized i'd only bought the light and not the whole hood! oops! So i gotta exchange that this week :tongue:



biggecko said:


> nice tank!


Thanks so much!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Small update:

TADA! 










It finally looks like a real tank :hihi: 

FTSs - it's a bit "messy" right now, I need to clean up the plants a little and I'll be mailing most of that flame moss ball off in the morning :tongue: (sorry the pics are blurrier than i realized on the tiny camera screen ) 



















These shots are a lot blurrier than i realizes (too much caffeine today :hihi but hopefully you can see that the flame moss is starting to grow :biggrin:


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## angelicodin (Dec 2, 2009)

Starting to look a lot better, epically with the hood and light. What kind of lighting is in the fixture? Do you plan on doing CO2 or staying extremely low tech?


Also I find placing the camera on a tripod or something still and then taking the pic, it really helps ;p

What brand of string are you using there? I only ask because I need to do that to my java moss on my wood ;p


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Thanks! Yeah, I was impressed with how much better it look just by putting the hood on there! :hihi: It's just the standard fluorescent bulb that came with the hood and yes I'll be keeping it extremely low tech, that's how I roll  all of my tanks are loooooow light, loooooow tech which = looow maintenance! :biggrin: My secret to growing lovely plants in extreme low light with very little maintenance is as follows:
1) slightly overstocking (fertilizer) 
2) bubble wall (CO2) and 
3) ~12hr photo period roud:

Hahaha yeah I know, I have a mini tripod somewhere that I used to use, but I moved recently and haven't dug it up yet. I'll work on that after seeing those extremely blurry pictures :icon_lol: My hands must have been extra shakey last night though because usually I get better pictures than that mess without the tripod! :icon_roll: ah well. 

As for the string, it's just run of the mill cotton thread, any kind will do! I think mine is from one of those mini sewing kits you can buy at CVS for a couple dollars. I save my good quality thread for when I'm actually sewing something :tongue:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

found my tripod! took a bunch of pictures playing with different settings and whatnot  I did a little rearranging and tried to clean up the look a little bit. I moved all of the crypts to the right side for my crypt forest. Did 2 50% water changes over 2 days. added some flourish excel and traces. Plants were happy!

Pearling (i turned the bubble wall off for these so you could see the stream of bubbles coming just from the plant!)




























Some close-ups: 



















Left









right









better shots of the moss starting to grow: 



















And of course, FTSs (playing with various settings):



























Yay for tripods! Enjoy  feedback is always welcome! roud:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Looks like the crypt is not melting in this tank. I love the flame moss. Nice pearling! That goes to show the lights aren't needed for happy plants.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

No the crypts actually don't seem to have done as much melting in this tank, i'm unsure as to why that is, perhaps the slightly higher light? Who knows with crypts...:hihi: And thanks, yeah i think the flame moss will look good as it grows in. The fissidens you sent me is also now starting to take off, i'll try to snap some pics tonight.  And yes, sometimes a simple water change is enough to trigger some pearling! (probably the plants were getting more light as a result of much less tannins :icon_lol


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Karackle said:


> No the crypts actually don't seem to have done as much melting in this tank, i'm unsure as to why that is, perhaps the slightly higher light?


No, you just haven't sneezed the right way yet.


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## chumblaka (Jan 4, 2010)

Where did you get your cherry shrimp?


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

lauraleellbp said:


> No, you just haven't sneezed the right way yet.


Oh true! It's because I sneezed at the waxing quarter moon when my dogs were in the bedroom and there was a teapot on the stove that they have done well so far, if I should happen to sneeze on the waning quarter moon with the dogs underfoot and coffee brewing....well....forget it, no more crypts for me! :icon_lol:



chumblaka said:


> Where did you get your cherry shrimp?


I got them from a member on this forum but I honestly can't remember who...might say somewhere in my 30g thread....


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

As promised, shots of the fissidens starting to show new growth, pic of the crypts showing a bit of new growth as well and a pic of the ambulia doing well in this tank! 

Enjoy!

Fissidens: 


















Crypts:









Ambulia:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Chumblaka - I did a bit of researching back into old threads and I originally got the RCS from Revernance here on this forum.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Hilde - I know you didn't ask in this thread, but I figure I'd post both about the bulbs on both tanks  The bulb on this tank is 15w T8 marineland "natural daylight" bulb which after a bit of googling is, I THINK, 6000k? I'm off to check my 30g bulb for you now, stay tuned!


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I can't wait to see that Fissidens fill in. I think it may be my very favorite moss.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

I agree, I am really loving it so far! I have a bit of it hiding on some small branches in the 30g and I love it, I'm hoping for it to be more prevalent and centerpieceish in this tank  It really is a beautiful moss!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Does anyone know if WCMMs will eat guppy fry? Because if they do, that could be an effective form of population control if I wanted to get some female livebearers in here. 

On the other hand though, do I have enough SPACE for female livebearers in here? because i'd probably need 4 so there is at least a 1-1 ratio...is that pushing my stocking limits though? 

I suppose there is enough space in the 30 to put the 3 endlers back in the 30 and make this just a guppy & WCMM tank too, then I could just add 2 females for the 1 male guppy and perhaps like 2 more WCMMs? 

All thoughts and input would be greatly appreciated!  Thanks in advance!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

A small update: 

It is a sad day, I lost my gorgeous male guppy yesterday.  All of the other fish look fine and the parameters all checked out. He didn't look diseased either, in fact he looked perfect other than the fact that he wasn't moving. Always sad to lose a fishy. 

Given this loss, I think I will leave the 3 endlers in this tank and add a few more WCMMs as soon as I get myself to a good fish store  'll also need some Otos soon too i reckon. Or maybe I'll just go with amanos if i can find them....i can never decide what cleaning crew to go for :tongue:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Well since the guppy died I have had no more deaths and everyone looks happy and healthy. The water is getting quite tea-colored again so it's definitely time for a water change! 

Anyway, I got my homemade root tabs from Sara (sewingalot) in the mail last night! YAYAYAY! :bounce: 

Of course I went ahead and stuck a few in my inert gravel. Hopefully this will help overall plant growth!  If all goes well i'll probably shove a bunch more in there :tongue:

OR actually, I'm thinking about beefing up my substrate though too, it would involve taking down the tank to do my plan though, so I'd love input on it first, here is my plan: 

1) I will gravel vac the 30 (and maybe the 60g) tank(s)

2) I will let the mulm settle out in a bucket 

c) I will carefully siphon off most of the water and let the mulm dry until it's pastey

4) I will crush up some of the root tabs (clay-based) and mix them into the mulm

e) I will spread this mixture on the bottom of the 10g tank (which of course i will have emptied)

f) I will put the gravel back into the tank on top of my mixture

7) I will replant and put the fish back, and probably stick whole root tabs under the crypts for extra nutrients since they're root feeders. 


Does that sound reasonable? Or is it not worth it at this point and should i just shove a bunch of root tabs under the substrate? 

I'd love your input!

Thanks!


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

IDK about letting the mulm dry, the main point of using mulm is to help move over N-bacteria, and they'll die off if they dry out.

Unless you're swapping out to a different substrate, personally, I'd just stick the root tabs under the plants and go from there. Less work, and less chance of starting a mini cycle LOL


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Yeah, you're probably right. I was thinking the mulm would be like good fertilizer maybe? But you're right, I think i'll just shove a bunch of root tabs in there and call it a day for now. roud: thanks for preventing me from doing a lot of work for nothing!!! LOL :biggrin:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Just a quick update on the 10g, I've got some BBA in here so I cut the photoperiod back and i'll try to remember to dose excel more often  

The ambulia isn't settling in here as well as it started out but I'll leave it in and see what happens. The crypts have also taken off in this tank with the addition of the root tabs. The flame moss is growing SUPER fast and looking great and the fissidens continues to fill in slowly but surely!  

On to pictures!  

FTS:









Crypts:









Flame Moss:









Fissidens:









Enjoy!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

I need to get my booty to a fish store to get some algae eaters for this tank I think, and definitely to get more fish because more fish = more fertilizer = happier plants  This tank is WAY understocked for me! :hihi:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

The fissiden looks fantastic. I am glad I sent you it now. Mine is blah... Probably because I keep forgetting to turn on the lights on that tank.  I am not sure if WCMM will eat the guppy fry. They are pretty big to begin with. If you find out they are a good population control, let me know. I'll buy half a dozen for my issues.

I also love the flame moss. Is it tied to a rock? That is too cool.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Thanks! I'm really glad you sent it to me too! It's looking wonderful!  Much better than the fissidens in my 30g that i had from before the moves. Hahaha i had the light turning on problem in my guppy breeding tank when i had that going, i eventually just put the light on a timer :tongue: The flame moss is actually attached to the DW, it's all one piece.  I'm actually really surprised at how fast it's growing! Not that I'm complaining of course!!!  

I'm not sure I'm going to put guppies in this tank just in case the WCMM are not good population control, but if I do I'll certainly let you know!


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## JennaH (Sep 28, 2009)

wow- the fissidens looks great! that lindernia rotundifolia 'variegated' is also a great plant, i have some in my 10 gallon. lookin good roud:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Thanks so much! I'm really happy with the way the fissidens is looking, I may move my little fissidens tree from the 30g into this tank because it clearly does better in here than in there. And yeah, the lindernia is a new addition to both of my tanks from Sara (sewingalot) and i'm loving it so far! It's a very different look and color than any of the other plants i'm used to having in my tanks so it's a really nice addition for many reasons.


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## demonbreedr16 (Jan 10, 2008)

So..did you get any new fish in here yet? :hihi:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Well it's time for a LONG overdue update! No new fish or anything yet, but it is growing in nicely (IMVHO ) 

There's not much new so I'll get right to the pics! :biggrin: Enjoy!

Full tank shots:



























And close-ups of everything:



























my superlong flame moss! 






















































As always, all questions, comments, criticisms etc. are welcome!


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Is that Flame moss over on the far left? It's getting TALL! lol


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Kara! It is great to see you!!!! Where have you been lately?!? 

Oh, I forgot to mention the tank, lol. What is that flame moss on - steroids? Tank looks beautiful! I am so tempted to throw away my high lights and go back to low tech on everything after seeing this latest update.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

sewingalot said:


> I am so tempted to throw away my high lights and go back to low tech on everything after seeing this latest update.


Hehehe- come back on over to the DARK side! :icon_twis


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Heeheehee I agree, come back to the dark side! :hihi:

Yeah, I don't know what the flame moss is on but it is LOVING this tank! It's practically the tallest thing in there!!! I've started adding a bit of excel once every week or so to help combat the BBA since the lights are a bit higher than I'm used to (OVER 1wpg, WOAH! hahahahahaha) and the sunset hygro seems to be loving too


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Wow, so, it's been WAY too long since I've been on TPT! I've been focusing so much on keeping busy and NOT just sitting at my computer in order to not get depressed that I've been neglecting my tanks and my favorite forum! 

The tank is not looking so hot, I will take some pictures that show it's poor state before I get it as fixed up as possible. I think I have to resign myself to the fact that stems are not my best option unless I want to upgrade my fertilizing regime. I'm thinking I will switch over to a mostly crypts tank as soon as I have the funds to get some. More later when I get some pictures


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Sorry for the delay with pictures but it gets dark so late in the day that by the time it's dark the boy is home and we eat dinner and watch TV and then I forget :tongue: 

Anyway, here's a blurry picture I took today with the lights off and the blinds closed  (sorry it's extra blurry because I changed the filter and pad and therefore stirred up some crud)










As you can see, the mosses, crypts, java ferns are thriving and even the ambulia is doing well, but the sunset hygro has totally died off. 

But Sara (sewingalot) is sending me some crypts, java ferns and anubias for my 2 tanks so I'll be switching over to true low light, slow growing tanks soon!


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

You'll have it back in no time!

(How old are the bulbs in your fixture now, though? I was just looking at a few of my own tanks thinking it's getting near time I should probably replace some old bulbs...)


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

I'll get you some nice plants in there. Ken sent me a TON of extra plant that have been packed into my twenty for quite a while now. He is definitely the crypt keeper.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Thanks for the votes of confidence that I can whip this guy back into shape! 

LauraLee - the bulb is only a few months old, I just bought the fixture when I set this tank up after we moved so they're probably only like 6 months tops. 

Sara - thanks! I'm so excited to get the tanks looking good again, I really appreciate your help with that!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Well now that the water is nice and clear again and I have a minute, I decided to take a few more pictures of this tank that give a bit better idea how well the heavy root feeders are doing as opposed to the stems. 

First up full tank shots, the first one is a bit blurry but shows the whole tank, the second is clearer, but the edges of the tank are a bit dark (i didn't use a tripod so the second one is darker because i turned down the exposure time to compensate for shakiness ) 


















Close-up of the super happy, thriving crypts:









Super happy java ferns:









Small crypt and unknown grassy plant:








if memory serves, this crypt started out as 1 plant with 3 tiny leaves, and the grassy plant was likewise itty bitty. I might have to go back and do comparison shots. :hihi:

Anyway, enjoy!

edit: old pictures for comparison on how well the crypts / java ferns / mosses have filled in since planting:


















You can sort of see in this one that there is a tiny crypt with maybe 2-3 leaves in front of the DW which is now 2 plants with several larger leaves :hihi:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

I forgot to mention that my 3 endlers have died one by one (old age I imagine, tank is healthy....I tested after each death). So now I've got 6 WCMM in here, thoughts on adding anything else? Maybe a few more WCMM? or something else? or is 6 WCMM good for a 10g? I'd love thoughts  thanks!


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

I can't get over how quick that flame moss grows for you! The unknown grassy plant looks like a dwarf sag. You're sunset hygro is cracking me up. It's saying "Don't give up on me yet, Kara!" Did I mention that when I talk to plants, they comment back?


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

yeah the flame moss does pretty well for me for whatever odd reason. The one thing that's weird is that it always seems to grow slower after I chop it off to send to others. Once or twice in other tanks it didn't rebound, but I think that's because I accidentally took too much from a smaller area. This time it is rebounding beautifully, but still growing slower than initialy. Strange. But oh well :hihi: 

I miiiiight try to keep a bit of sunset hygro in one or both tanks, just because I do love it. We shall see. 

but more importantly MY PLANTS ARRIVED!!!!! A GIGANTIC thank you to Sara (sewingalot) for the super generous shipment! I've got tons of gorgeous needle leaf java fern, some beautiful crypts in a couple varieties, some anubias, it looks like petite maybe, and a few other things thrown in! Almost everything survived the heat! I few of the stems didn't fair as well, but you win some you lose some. I can't wait to get planting!!!! :biggrin:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

(the beginning of this is duplicated in my 30g thread)

Well, I didn't get as far as I would have liked to get today, partly because there are many more plants than i at first realized, partly because the tying java ferns and anubias to rocks took longer than planned and partly because the boy came home early again. 

BUT this is what I have so far  

My setup for tying plants to rocks (along with some NCIS to watch on tv ) :









TONS of needle leaf java fern:









Lovely anubias (2 shots of the same 2 plants):


















Some stray pieces of moss plucked from the bottom of my tanks and hiding in other places that i may or may not use:









And of course rocks to tie it all down to:









I tied an anbuias to the nice piece of lace rock their that I pulled from my 30g to put in this tank. For the rest I found (and then of course scrubbed etc.) smaller rocks to weigh down pieces of java fern that I want plant "in" the substrate. 

Unfortunately you can't see the anubias in here yet at all as it's hidden behind many of the floating plants and it's hard to pick out the rock of java fern i've tied down so far for this tank, but the following pictures are the best i could get since for some reason i decided to float most of the plants in my smaller tank. :hihi: 



















So that's all for now, as soon as the rest of the plants to be tied down have perked back up in the water and I have time I'll get the rest planted  I'll update more as I go!


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Nice fingernail polish.  I commented in your other thread, but I forgot to say that. This tank looks good too.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Hahaha thanks! luckily one of the nails that the polish is still good on is in the picture :hihi: 

And thanks, I know it's hard to tell much of anything going on in this tank yet though :tongue:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

YIKES! I was finishing planting the 30g and I came up to get a plant or 2 out of the 10g and when I put my hand it to grab it the tank was positively WARM! The thermometer says the tank is nearly at 90º!!!! :eek5::icon_eek: So I immediately unplugged the heater and began taking measures to cool down the tank. Thank GOODNESS I have lots of aeration in the tank, I imagine that's the only reason the fish and shrimp are doing ok still. I moved the rest of the floating plants to the 30g and we'll see how the rest in this tank do. I'm going to leave the heater unplugged until i have a chance to plug it into a bucket where I can monitor the temp. It's possible the nob got bumped, but it's also possible the heater is on the fritz. We keep the house around 68, it's slightly warmer up here where the tank is so I think it should be fine without the heater for now. 

I'll probably let things settle back down for a few days before I plant anything else so stay tuned for the updates on the new scape. In the mean time, I'm going to get pics of the 30g tonight or tomorrow.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Well I've done a really bad job updating because grad school has been keeping me SUPER busy, but I finally had a little time today to get some pictures! 

Unfortunately, because I don't water column fertilize this tank and I'm down to only my 3 newer WCMMs and some RCS, all of the stems have died off or been removed from this tank. BUT my crypts, anubias, java ferns and flame moss are thriving. I have a very nice little crypt jungle going on! 

Here are some pictures 

FTS:



























Left Side:










Right Side:









close-ups:



























So I am down to just 3 WCMMs in this tank, i think the lack of water column fertilization from fish is starting to effect the flame moss a little, so I'll probably get a few more fish for this tank soon  OR I might just put the betta from my 30g in here, i haven't quite decided. If I did that I'd probably have to move the WCMMs out though (i want to move the betta because his fins are getting nibbled) so I'll probably just get some more white clouds for this tank (or male guppies) and set up the 5g for the betta over winter break.

I think that's about it for now. 

As always, questions, comments, critiques etc. etc. are welcome! And thanks for looking!


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Wow! That flame moss is huge! Nice stand of crypts too.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

About time I see the update.  I am glad to see you took a break from studying finally. You should turn this into a moss/crypt tank. That would be sweet! Oh, wait. You did. :hihi:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Thanks Chad! 

Thanks Sara, and yeah, I suppose I did! Hahaha well, crypts, moss, java fern and an anubias


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Karaaaaaa!! :icon_mrgr

Hope the rest of your semester goes well!

Those crypts are looking fantastic!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Hi LauraLee!!!! :biggrin:

Thanks! I hope so too! lol 

And thanks, yeah the crypts have really taken off, I'm really liking this little loooowwww tech tank!


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## PinoyBoy (Mar 14, 2008)

How are the crypts doing?


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

The crypts are doing very well, they are great low light / low tech plants!


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

Wow, almost 5 months without a picture

I'm jealous...I wish I could get my Crypt to grow like that


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

hahaha i know! grad school is keeping me BUSY! But I have a break from classes for a month after next friday so I should be able to most some more pics then  

And thanks! Yeah I don't know, crypts grow really well for me. I used to kill java ferns though, so go figure :hihi: I give them lots of root tabs and don't do much else to my tanks, so maybe that's why crypts do well for me? Since they melt if disturbed (or you look at them sideways) maybe they like that i don't mess around in my tank much? who know. If I could I'd ask them :icon_lol:

ok....back to studying for finals....:help:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Semester one of grad school is done! I should be able to post an update on both tanks and get the 5g for my betta up and running soon!  

Just an FYI because I'm very excited to be done with finals!  :bounce:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Update????? I don't want to hear how you've been sick, neither. I demand an update. By the way, I hope you are feeling better.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Hahahaha sorry no updates, I was super sick (in bed with a high fever kind of sick) the first few days of my "vacation" and then I was away. But I still have 2 more weeks without classes so I'll be updating soon. I actually might set up the 5g tonight.....


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Good luck with setting up the 5 gallon. I am glad you got better enough to have a least a good mini vacation. You were pretty sick for a while, huh? Great to hear you are doing much better!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

yeah I was pretty sick from sunday to about weds....luckily I woke up Thurs feeling better cuz that's when we went out of town! My fever was definitely down on weds but I didn't really feel better til thursday. 

So I realized I no longer have the light for my 5g, I might do a super basic setup just to get the betta out of the 30g for tonight but I might just wait until tomorrow. We'll see if I get motivated to get off the couch or not :tongue: Right now I have one dog sleeping in my lap and one next to me so I'm very comfy :hihi:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Ugh, sounds terrible. Good to hear that fever broke. 

Ah, how often do I say the same thing. I start to get up, but then the dogs are laying with me, and all motivation goes out the window.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

hahaha yes dogs are super snuggly and therefore terrible for motivation!!! :hihi: 

I am going to head to PetSmart today for a new light and to Home Depot for some plastic mesh so I can make a moss wall.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

And then do I get pictures posted?


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Ok so I got the 5g up and running....right now it just has a a HUGE floating moss ball and a floating anubias in it to keep mr. betta company. I took a few pics but I'll have to post them once I get to the lab (the cable guy just left so I have to stop being lazy :tongue 

More to come!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Ok 5g update: 

as I mentioned earlier I got the 5g up and running but it has NO scape yet, just a HUGE moss ball (that will be come a moss wall, possibly a moss "rope ladder" and perhaps other things) and a lone floating anubias which may or may not got back in the 30g. 

Since this is going to be a VERY simple tank and it sits directly next to the 10g, I'll post about both tanks here. 

As for the setup of this tank, it's mostly all of the equipment i had running in here previously, Azoo Red Sea Nano filter, and inert natural colored gravel. I need to get a new air stone / bubble wall this afternoon. 

As for lighting, I'd forgotten that the strip light for this tank was donated to the office tank I set up with my coworkers back in Albany, so I'm on the hunt for new lighting. I couldn't find a 5g fluorescent strip ANYWHERE yesterday. I was however able to pilfer the light from my gecko setup because, very sadly, he passed away while I was gone last week  So I currently have 1 CFL light bulb (either 60 or 100 w equivalent) over the tank. I think that should be more than enough light to keep the plants going until I either get a desk light or a fluorescent strip light. I would just keep the fixture from the gecko enclosure on there, but I can't open the glass canopy when the light is on the tank so I'd like to replace it, but since a CFL is plenty of light for a 5g moss scape, i'm not in any rush.

Ok pictures. I'll take more when I actually get some scape going on here (and at night so there isn't any glare)

Betta in the 30g, as you can see, he desperately needed a new home, he has no fins!


















New home



























You may or may not be able to see the RCS that hitchiked with the moss :hihi:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I will get pics of the 10g soon too because I added 5 new WCMMs yesterday, bringing the total up to 8. Ideally I'd like 2 more of the golden WCs (i think that's what they are called) which would bring me up to 5 of each, but they didn't have any at the fish store. Sigh. :tongue:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

That RCS is super red! Have you thought about making a cave with the moss? I found my betta loved his little cave and would play hide and seek with me. :biggrin: The betta is a cutie even with his frayed finnage. Can't wait to see progress!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Heehee yeah he's a cutie  I like him. Now I just hope he likes his new home!

Yes, I somehow got very lucky and ended up with some seriously super red RCS. I'm not complaining :hihi:

I'm intrigued by this cave idea.....how would you suggest I go about doing that? 

For more cute fish pics, check out the oto pics i posted today in my 30g thread


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

A hollowed-out coconut shell or some black PVC (if you can find it) can make really nice caves covered in moss. 

Glad you got this tank going again and what a luckly little boy you've got in there! :icon_smil


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Thanks! Yes, I think he'll be happier in here. Though who knows, maybe being chased around was keeping him fit because he is pretty healthy despite the massacred fins....hopefully he doesn't get fat and lazy in his new home :icon_lol:

And those are good suggestions, thanks! Will a coconut shell rot over time though?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Yeah, it will rot eventually... but over LONG time. I expect it would hold up about as well as Manzanita wood does?


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Hahaha well I guess that's a pretty long time then! I think I can handle that. We'll have to see what I find though too  

I'm open to any and all other suggestions regarding fun things to do with moss too by the way (or other ways to do things already mentioned)


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Well I didn't get a chance to do anything more with the 5g last night, but I'm definitely going to try to work on it tonight so poor Mr. Betta has more interesting things to look at than a huga ball of moss :hihi:


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## F22 (Sep 21, 2008)

that is a big ol' moss chunk


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

hahahaha yes, yes it is


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Well I still haven't done any scaping in the 5g, but Mr. Betta is enjoying his new home so I just thought I'd post some happy betta pictures for now (I didn't catch him in the act, but he's been swimming in and out of the moss mass :hihi


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

lauraleellbp said:


> A hollowed-out coconut shell or some black PVC (if you can find it) can make really nice caves covered in moss.
> 
> Glad you got this tank going again and what a luckly little boy you've got in there! :icon_smil


X2.



Karackle said:


> Hahaha well I guess that's a pretty long time then! I think I can handle that. We'll have to see what I find though too
> 
> I'm open to any and all other suggestions regarding fun things to do with moss too by the way (or other ways to do things already mentioned)



Let's see, you could do the following with the moss:

Glue it to your face and start a new fashion trend.
Wear it as a hat
Crochet it into a nice scarf
Salad dressing
Go 'green'
Make a belt
Use it as a centerpiece.

Seriously, though. I bought a clay pot, chipped out the bottom and covered the sides in moss. Except the part laying down. I might have a picture around here some where....


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

sewingalot said:


> Seriously, though. I bought a clay pot, chipped out the bottom and covered the sides in moss. Except the part laying down. I might have a picture around here some where....


I almost grabbed a clay pot yesterday but I was afraid the orange would show up too much. Does it? I could only find black PVC that was too big for a 5g or too small for a betta cave. Alas. 

I have some ideas about using the bottom of a clear plastic bottle with rocks to weight it down and other ideas about securing a mesh, mos-filled, "dome" to piece of slate. I might try to play with those ideas tonight (or this weekend).



sewingalot said:


> Glue it to your face and start a new fashion trend.
> Wear it as a hat
> Crochet it into a nice scarf
> Salad dressing
> ...


To be fair these are all excellent ideas though too :hihi:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

It did at first, but after a while, the pot becomes hidden by the moss. Good luck with the other options. Let me know what you decide. Being up for 27 hours really, really sucks. I am going to try and sleep again.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Thanks for the suggestions! I'll definitely keep this updated on my other trials and errors so I have a record of them and so others can see what does (or doesn't) work. Plus it's just fun to document these kinds of things :hihi:

I hope you get some sleep!!!


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

That's why I like your journals. You always show the good and the bad. Too often people forget the bad stuff helps us in this hobby.  Still working on trying to get to sleep. I feel like Christopher Bale in _The Machinist_. :hihi:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Oh no! Still no sleep?! well at least you have TPT to distract you! :hihi:

And thanks, yeah I try to run an honest account of the tanks. Good and bad. Helps me remember and like you said, I think the bad is often just as helpful as the good :tongue:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

I'm really frustrated because I finally had time to do some rescaping tonight but my hands are so red and chapped they practically have a rash so I've had to douse them in lotion today so I couldn't get my hands in the tank  :redface: Grrrrrrrr :angryfire


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

I think TPT keeps me from sleeping. :hihi: Finally feel asleep last night. Woke up to the dog crying in her sleep. Her human mommie (aka - me) had to get up and comfort the rug rat. 

Sucks about the hands. I know how you feel. My feet and hands both get bad if I don't keep them moisturized in the winter.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Aww poor puppy! My Cody wakes me up crying in his sleep occasionally and I get out of bed to comfort him too (unless he's on the bed ) I always wonder what they are dreaming about when they cry in their sleep. I'm fairly certain he's got a good life with me, so what is he dreaming about? 

And thanks, I'm glad I'm not the only one with the dryness too! As much as it sucks, at least someone understands! Usually it's just the palms of my hands and the bottoms of my feet, but this time it's the back of my hands too, like they're chapped. Ah well, I'll try to get into the tank tonight anyway. Or at least put some gloves on to make some moss caves and then just drop them in the tank for now :hihi: 

Glad to hear you got some sleep last night too! YAY! :biggrin:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

I am still really tired, but at least my synapses are firing again.  I hate dry skin. My feet and hands will get so dry, they'll bleed if I am not careful. I like the winter cause it's easier to hide my fat, but hate the drying of gas heat. 

Good luck with the tank and gloves.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Glad to hear the synapses are firing again! YAY! :biggrin: Yes, I've had the bleeding from the cracking....we have gas heat too. Is the gas heat really worse than electric heat? I always thought it was just heat in general. It's definitely easier to hide the roles with sweaters and sweatshirts in the winter though, gotta agree on that count! Plus i can make more outfits with fewer clothes by layering differently. I feel like I wear the same 5 shirts all summer. :hihi:

Thanks for the good luck! I hope I can get in the tanks at least a little today!


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

I never had this much problem until I moved over here and the gas heat was used. I don't know if it is coincidence or me grumbling. :hihi: Yeah, I have like three shirts I wear in the summer mostly. I love dressing in the winter. There are so many textures and materials that are impossible in the summer.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

hmmm interesting, hahaha actually now that I think about it I think I've only ever had gas heat so I suppose I've never noticed the difference :tongue: 

But yes I agree, so many more options with winter clothes. I rather enjoy it. :hihi:

Ok, fish tank question, I really like guppies, think there's enough room in the 10g to add a few males? Instead of increasing the number of golden white clouds? Thoughts?


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

I've found in smaller tanks, a few males will tend to get aggressive with one another. No room to hide, I guess. Something to think about.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

hmmmm good point. Maybe just one male?


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

5 hours later.....

Ok folks, bear with me because this is going to be a LOOONNNG post with LOTS of pictures. 

I'll start with the 5g. I made a moss wall, 2 moss "pillars" and a moss cave. My basic supplies for creating all of these things were vent screening (it's black and has slightly larger holes than regular screen), black zip ties, black thread, and suction cups (for the pillars). 

To make the wall I took the vent screening and made a large pouch with it approximately the size of the back wall of the tank. I sprinkled some gravel from the tank along the bottom to weight it down, stuffed it with moss, and then threw some stitches through the whole thing to keep the moss from sliding down. 

The vent screen just happened to be the exact right height for this tank. Awesome. 









Got all my supplies ready to make a moss wall. Got my screen, my zip ties, needle and thread, moss of course, and a spray bottle full of tank water to keep the moss moist. 









A few zip ties made a nice pocket. I made the seam in the center to keep the edges clean. 









Fill with moss









"Stitch" moss in place









And VOILA! moss wall roud:









My first ever moss wall is in place! :biggrin:









Next I made some moss "pillars". I simply rolled some moss up in a piece of screen, closed the seam, closed the bottom off, attached a suction cup to the top and stuck it in the tank with the suction cups attached to the the glass canopy. I made two. 

Moss ready to be rolled up









Ready for the tank. 









Close-up in the tank









Finally for this tank, I made a cave. Again I just used screen (the bottle idea didn't work). I used a similar method as I used with the rock wall, but this time I wrapped it in a circle, and then made some slits in the back end, folded them inward, zipped tied them together, and I had a cave. 

Screen pocket + moss









wrapped it around (the folded edge of the pocket is the front of the cave)









Tie up the back (yes i cut the zip ties after taking the picture )









TADA!









Betta already likes his cave and it's not even moss covered yet









Cave









FTS with pillars and cave in place. Oh yeah, and I attached the floating anubias to a rock :tongue:


















And then when I went to scape my 30g I decided to put the new large crypt into this tank so the betta has more plants to hide in than just the anubias, at least until his moss grows out









One last FTS with the crypt in place


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Ok, now for the 10g. I didn't do too much with this one, the flame moss was getting scraggly so I pulled out the DW, cut out some of the less healthy portions of flame moss, placed the healthy parts on the log, wrapped with screen that I zip tied in place and replaced it to the tank. I also moved the anubias and a crypt. 

Scraggly moss









but you can see there is healthy new growth









ready to rock









moss in place









wrapped up


















back in the tank. And I moved the anubias from the right side of the DW to the center of it 









Check out my crypt forest









FTS


















And a couple shots of both tanks together

before water change on 10g









after water change, as you can see, the DW is still leaching some tannins :tongue:









I think that's all for now!


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

Omg these look like crap! 

Lmao jk 

very nifty and look at this crypts! So lush


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

HAHAHAHA thanks dude! I appreciate the vote of confidence :tongue: I told you the 5g was more like a plastic than a planted tank right now didn't I? :hihi:

And thanks, those crypts have filled in SO WELL, I'm so happy! The pictures don't even do it justice!


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

Lol I was joking! It will grow in


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## demonbreedr16 (Jan 10, 2008)

Nice tanks! Those sure are some healthy crypts..being a crypt lover[and killer now for some reason unknown to me] I think that's awesome you have a little "forest" of them going. Very creative what you've done with all the moss too... :biggrin:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

problemman said:


> Lol I was joking! It will grow in


Hahahaha I know! No worries! :biggrin:



demonbreedr16 said:


> Nice tanks! Those sure are some healthy crypts..being a crypt lover[and killer now for some reason unknown to me] I think that's awesome you have a little "forest" of them going. Very creative what you've done with all the moss too... :biggrin:


Thanks demon! I just hope the moss all grows in the way I want  

And thanks for the compliments on the crypts, root tabs are my friends! It took about a year for them to get nice and full, but I'm so happy with the way they look now!


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## demonbreedr16 (Jan 10, 2008)

Root tabs, huh? I have my few survivors in the same gravel you do[inert & black, if that is what you have] and they are blah[survivng, barley] but I want them to thrive...maybe until I get the 15gal with aquasoil, I'll try some root tabs?


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Yes, I have inert black gravel, root tabs definitely seem to make Crypts thrive. Purely anecdotal of course, but I've seen the addition of root tabs perk up my crypts in multiple tanks, and I know others have too roud: In fact I use the health of my crypts as a meter for when i need to add new root tabs


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Liking the moss cave. I look forward to seeing it grow in.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Thanks, me too! I just hope when it grows in it looks 1/2 as good as it looks in my head :hihi:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

I'm wondering if I should start a new thread for the 5g instead of keeping these 2 tanks in the same thread.....the tanks are quite different from each other after all....but since they are side by side I guess I can keep it all in one thread....i don't know, I'm just "thinking out loud"....er rather "thinking on screen" :hihi:


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## yondertank (Sep 7, 2009)

I like what you have planned for the moss. I am interested to see how uniform the pillar and cave turn out, I bet with some good pruning it should look top notch.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

thanks yonder! I sure hope it looks even half of top notch and I'll be happy! :hihi:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Mr. Betta's fins are already looking better after only around a week in his own tank. I'm gonna try to go get some pictures in a little while (since I'm home for a snowday :hihi


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

Same here!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

problemman said:


> Same here!


Snow day or Betta's fins are growing back? :hihi: jk


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

I can't believe i forgot to sub to this thread before. No wonder I haven't been getting updates on your amazing tanks. I can correct that now though 

I can't wait to see these pictures. Also the idea with the moss cave is awesome! I've got to do something like that at some point. I'm really looking forward to watching this tank progress. It's going to look epic!


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Karackle said:


> Mr. Betta's fins are already looking better after only around a week in his own tank. I'm gonna try to go get some pictures in a little while (since I'm home for a snowday :hihi


Sweet! The husband got a snow day as well. We don't even have more than a couple inches of snow on the ground right now. When I was in school, it literally took a blizzard to shut down the schools. 

Glad to hear the betta's fins are already recovering. roud:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

*Aqua* - thanks! I'm looking forward to seeing it progress too, I just wish I could fast forward the moss growth process :hihi: it's only been 3 days and yet I'm already impatient to see some moss growth! :icon_lol: In all fairness though, there are a couple of bright green nubs poking through the screen (or maybe that's just in my head :flip 

Pictures of Mr. Betta are uploading to photobucket now!  

*Sara* - Yeah I'm used to a literal blizzard (the real, 3+ feet of snow kind, not the 1 foot of snow kind that is _technically_ a blizzard due to high winds) being necessary to delay school / work :hihi: work wasn't technically cancelled, but everyone stayed home anyway 

Pics of betta man in a moment :biggrin:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Ok LOTS of pics, most of them with flash because he didn't want to stay still today. Some of them show the new growth pretty well (sort of clearish bits at the ends of the fins / tail) and some were just cute pictures  

In no particular order, here they are:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

when I was changing the title I saw an old pic of my crypts and I thought I'd post a progression series:

1/1/10









4/4/10









6/23/10









11/14/10









1/9/11









And just to sum it up
Shortly after finally planting:
1/1/10









Just over 1 year later:
1/9/11


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

Your betta seems to be doing very well  and is that the cave in the background? He seems to be enjoying it too! Looks great!

I am very jealous of your crypts too. They exploded in those first 4 months. Amazing


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

AquaStudent said:


> Your betta seems to be doing very well  and is that the cave in the background? He seems to be enjoying it too! Looks great!


Heeheehee thanks! And yes, that is the cave in the background of some of the pictures, the pillars and moss wall in others (his tank is very monochromatic at the moment because of all of the moss projects that just look like black mesh right now). But he does already seem to be enjoying and using the cave! 



AquaStudent said:


> I am very jealous of your crypts too. They exploded in those first 4 months. Amazing


Thanks! Yes they did really take off in those first 4 months and steadily filled in after that. And all I have in this tank is plain old black aquarium gravel and root tabs roud:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Do you need more root tabs? I am getting low and thinking about making up some new ones. I just need the motivation to do so. Those crypts are amazing.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

I would absolutely take more root tabs, mine are getting low too, if you still have all the supplies and are willing to make them, you know ill cover shipping or make a trade :biggrin: and thanks, but I give the credit to these crypts to your root tabs!


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

I love the cave idea (and I'm obsessed with moss walls . . .). Hope your boy's fins grow back. They're so short now I can't even tell what type of betta he is.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

*BettaManiac* - Thanks! I just hope the cave idea works the way I'm hoping it will :hihi: 

And thanks, they are already showing new growth after just a week in his new tank roud: I'm just thankful he's such a resilient guy and he stayed healthy despite the fin nipping!

This is what the poor guy used to look like, maybe you can tell me what kind of Betta he is:



















Geez I'd forgotten how long his fins were.....now I feel even worse about not getting him his own tank sooner! Ah well, at least he has now, ALL to himself  (he may get a couple Oto friends if I start getting algae but until then, just Mr. Betta and some snails)


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

I think he may be a Delta tail but I'm not an expert. You could ask BettaManiac. (s)He would know


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

AquaStudent said:


> I think he may be a Delta


Looks like a Delta to me too. A very pretty one too. Deltas were the "hot" form before the develpment of the Halfmoon and I still quite like them (just got one for my mom, in fact).


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

Delta but maybe a halfmoon!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Cool thanks! And thanks, I thought he was pretty too (well I still do)  I was very drawn to the interesting color gradation on his fins, especially his tail, and the leopard patter no his dorsal fine :hihi:

Hopefully after a while in his own tank he'll get some of his former glory back, though I know it won't be quite the same.


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

That leopard pattern is very cool. It's almost like he is part leopard on the upper part of his fins and Zebra on the bottom part :icon_lol: Very cool colors!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

heeheehee thanks! Yeah I think he's pretty neat looking :biggrin:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

I have all the supplies on hand, I'll make some tonight and let them dry for a few days. You know me, I am always up for trades.  By the way - I got the necklaces today in the mail with a REALLY pretty handmade bag for them. Oh WOW!!!!!! The pictures of your necklaces do not show your true talent. They are almost too pretty for me to wear. :biggrin: Thanks, Kara!!!!!!!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Oh good! I'm so glad you got them!!! :biggrin: did you recognize the bag from the pics I sent you for the sewing thing? :hihi: I'm glad you like them too, if there are any issues, let me know, mail them back and I'll make adjustments  I'm not sure I have much to trade other than some crypts, but if you wait I should have a bunch of moss in a month or two :tongue: Or I can always send more jewelry :hihi: Also thank you for making the root tabs!!!


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Yes, I did recognize that you little sneaky girl!  I am really excited to wear them out. I'll make the root tabs for your birthday present! 

In case I didn't say it already:








_
HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!!!_


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

Happy birthday from the posse !!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

*THANK YOU GUYS!!!
*
heeheehee I AM sneaky aren't I? :hihi: And thanks for the root tabs! But I AM happy to cover shipping if you want  Or make a trade :biggrin:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Nah, I'll just ship first class. That way I get to be cheap and I still get credit.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

hahahaha sounds like a plan!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

I'm seeing some definite signs of moss growth, I'll try to snap some pics tomorrow :hihi:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Okay, Kara. I've been lazy because I've actually gotten 5 hours sleep the past few nights!!!! I am going to work on these root tabs now.


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

Needed forgetting the other posse member?!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Woohoo for sleep! I don't consider that lazy :hihi: and thanks, that's my most useful birthday present! :biggrin:

Brad - you know I <3 you but your post makes no sense :hihi:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Got some shots of the moss growing in :biggrin: It's just starting to poke through, but progress is progress in just a few days :hihi:

Pillar growth:









Cave growth:



























Wall growth (a little hard to see)



























Also took some random shots of the 10g, a couple FTS with a decent shot of one of the golden white clouds. 


















So far this crypt hasn't melted (i moved it from in front of the DW....I know it's the same tank, but I'm still impressed it hasn't melted given that it's, well, a crypt :hihi 









Nice new growth on the anubias (some algae on the other leaves...I guess I should get some algae eaters in this tank :hihi









And some happy shrimp pics for your enjoyment :wink:



























Enjoy! And as always, thanks for looking and feel free to ask questions, make comments, state concerns etc.


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

Looking moss-tastic! Before you know it there will be do much growth you will hate it lol


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

That moss cave is really coming together! It looks great!

You have such good looking fishies and shrimp in there.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Brad - thanks! and yes, that's probably true! :hihi: but once it gets to be a LOT of moss, I'll have some to share in the SnS  

Aqua - thanks and thanks! :biggrin:


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## j-pond (Dec 18, 2008)

I just read through the whole thread (work is very slow) and I love the ideas on the moss wall and columns. Hope you don't mind but I plan on stealing them when I set up the 20long. I will give you credit of course.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

wow, I'm honored you read my whole thread! :redface: :biggrin:

And of course you can steal the ideas! This forum is all about finding new ideas and trying them out, I can't take full credit for the column idea, it's my own variation on the "moss rope ladder" thread in the DIY section roud: The moss wall is a pretty standard method and I just used the basic "put the moss between to layers of mesh" idea from that and made the cave :tongue: Anyway, I'm glad you like the idea! Now let's just see how it grows in :hihi:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Hey, Kara. I am actually in the process of changing up the 10 gallon thanks to you. Just finished painting the background and one of the sides black. This tank is going to be called: "Kara's stolen ideas" LOL. I can't wait to see that moss grow in. These are the days I wished you'd use co2 to speed up the process. :hihi:


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

Hey Kara I was curious. What lighting are you using? I was thinking of upgrading my 15 watt florescent light on my 10 gallon but I don't know what good options are.


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

Love the moss wall. Really want to try this for myself eventually.


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

sorry im a page late, but i just have to say your betta is very pretty. i used to have a blue HM with a leopard pattern on his dorsla fin ( RIP :[ ) 


HAPPY BIRTHDAY and good luck with the wall!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

*Sara* - I love it! Will you post a picture when you get it set up? If you don't feel like starting a whole thread, you can post it here, I don't mind :hihi: Or just e-mail it to me  if it's gonna be named after me, I wanna see it! :hihi: Also, the moss is growing pretty fast for a non-CO2 tank....I do wish it would grow faster too though :icon_lol:

*AquaStudent* - In the 10g I just have the stock light that came with the hood I bought....probably the same as yours....15w sounds right (you can double check if you look at the very first post, at least I think I listed the equipment) For the 5g right now I've just got a spiral CFL (the energy saving regular light bulbs)... i'm not sure on the wattage though

*BettaManiac* - Thanks! I've been wanting to try a moss wall for ages, I'm really excited about it! The opportunity finally presented itself when I needed to set up a tank for the betta and I happened to have an excess of moss at the same time roud:

*OrchidMan* - Thanks! His fins are making a GREAT recovery, the new growth has doubled since I posted those pics! RIP to your Betta, sounds like he was lovely. And thanks for the happy birthday and good luck! I'll post more pics as it continues to grow in :biggrin:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Sure will, Kara! I am currently hoarding moss in preparation. :hihi:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

AWESOME! I can't wait to see it! If I hadn't just used all mine on my project I'd offer it to you, if it grows before you have enough I'll send it your way though :biggrin:


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

Did you know that moss walks were invented by the dutch? They use them to cover 3 sides of an aquarium in dutch aquariums


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

I didn't know that, very cool!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

The moss is really starting to grow in now so I wanted to post some pics  Not a TON of moss, but it's certainly enough that the tank doesn't just look black anymore, it's got some greenery to it :hihi:

Back wall:


















Columns:


















Cave: 


















FT shots:


















And a couple plant pics, the crypt is looking very nice and there's a bit of new growth on the pennywort:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

And Mr. Betta's fins continue to grow in nicely so I wanted to post some pictures of him too :biggrin: He was hamming it up for the camera anyway :hihi: You can see that there is even more new growth pretty well in some of these pictures, and some were just cute pics! :hihi:
































































Enjoy! And thanks for looking :biggrin:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Awww! His fins are looking great, Kara! Such a looker. I can't wait until the moss fills in, especially for the cave. That crypt is beautiful. You're making me want more.


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## sejoy (Jan 18, 2011)

Wow, I really love the idea of the moss cave. 8D 
I would so make one for my betta. Right now. If I had moss.

xD he seems to really enjoy it though!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Sara - Thanks, I think he's looking pretty nice too  SO GLAD his fins are growing back :biggrin: And I agree, I can't wait until the moss fills in more too! But it's definitely nice to see more green in there at least!  

Sejoy - Thanks! I actually can't take full credit for the cave, I got the idea for the moss cave from Sara (sewingalot) and / or LauraLeeLLBP, but I went about it in a bit of an unconventional way I think  I can't wait for it to grow in either! And Mr. Betta does seem to like it already, I think he'll be even happier when there is more moss in the tank


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

Jeez I have not checked in in a while! Looking good kara!

I think you need a lotus lol I got one with your name in it


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Thanks man! It's ok, I haven't updated in a while  

Would a lotus do ok in a 5g? I'm thinking of moving the red sword from my 30g to the 1- or he 5 because they have more light than the 30g, I'd totally love to try a lotus too though if you really have one :biggrin:


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

I will send you a baby baby one... Just cover shipping and it will be fine just trim it to keep under control


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Your betta is really blossoming under your care, Kara- I look forward to seeing what he looks like in a month or two. :biggrin:

The tank is going to look cool once all the moss finishes growing in.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Thanks Brad! That would be awesome and I'll definitely cover shipping of course, thanks!!! 

Thanks LauraLee! I'm so glad he seems happy and healthy and his fins are really growing back, he never looked unhealthy or sad, he was always out and about in the 30g, but I just felt so bad that his fins were all but gone! He seems to have transitioned well......HAHAHA I just glanced over at his tank and he's chasing after a very small snail that seems to have attached itself to a small piece of leafy debris and is now floating around the tank, it's HILARIOUS! :hihi: :icon_lol: I'm so glad he entertains himself!  

And I'm really excited to see the moss grow in too, especially now that I see growth almost everywhere so I know the moss didn't die off on me (which I fear it might have in the 10g ) 

I also think I got some flame moss in the cave, some of those shoots appear to be standing STRAIGHT up :hihi:


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## demonbreedr16 (Jan 10, 2008)

I really like your betta! I'm glad he's growing his fins back!

Does he have a name?

Oh, BTW - your tank is really looking good too! :biggrin:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Hahahaha that's ok, he's totally the star of a very simple tank (but thanks for the compliment ) And thanks! I like him too, I still can't believe how much his fins have grown so quickly. I hope the trend continues! 

Um....I guess his name is Mr. Betta. Not very creative but I'm kind of superstitious and noticed this trend with my luck where if I named a fish it didn't live long, so I sort of stopped naming them. So then my betta's have "accidentally" acquired very uncreative names like "mr. betta" and the one before I believe I referred to as "betta face" or something :hihi: I suppose it also made me feel like I would get less attached if I didn't name the fish, but I get attached to my bettas no matter what so I suppose I could come up with a better name for him :tongue: hahaha sorry that was way more info than you wanted when you asked for his name I'm sure :hihi:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

I was just glancing back at how my boy looked the day I moved him and it occurred to me his fins have grown even more than I realized, so I thought I would do a quick time-lapse set of photos :biggrin:

While he's nowhere close to this again yet:









I think we can all agree that he's come a long way from here (on the day of the move):









To here (1 week later)









To here (1 month later):


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

His color seems to be really improving too. Great to see!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Thanks! Yeah it definitely is improving a bit, though it probably looks like it is even more because the pic of him still in the 30g (in the time lapse) is the only one taken without a flash, so it's not the best comparison, his color remained pretty good even when his fins were getting nibbled....I guess he's just a happy guy or something


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

He looks so much better! That is a lot of fin growth. How's he liking his 'man-cave' now that the moss is growing in?


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

thanks Sara! I think so too. I was watching him last night when I needed a HW break, and I realized his fins have grown so much in the past month that they're already getting that "flowy" quality back and I thought "hey, he's looking like a real Betta again!" :hihi: And yes I am aware that "flowy fins" does not a Betta make, I know there are _Betta splendens _ varieties without flowy fins and that in fact the ones we are used to seeing that have the long flowy fins are really just selectively bred mutations and that there are also plenty of other wild type _Betta species_ that do not have long fins. It was just one of those silly thoughts and I thought I'd share it.  :hihi: 

I don't think he dislikes his cave, because he certainly goes in there sometimes when I'm bugging him by sticking my face right up to the glass and probably scaring the poor fish, but mostly I see him out and about swimming around. He's probably still getting used to, and enjoying, the fact that he can swim around everywhere without getting his fins eaten. So I'm ok with him not always hanging out in the cave  roud:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

(Sara this one's for you :hihi

I just wanted to post some picture updates of the 10g, the 5g and Mr. Betta :biggrin:

10g FTS: 









And some close-ups

First the DW and its lush crop of ferns:









The crypt forest:









The fissidens:









And the flame moss is starting to grow in









More of it died under the mesh than I was hoping so it's looking a little straggly, but I'm going to let it grow out some more and then maybe I'll re-tie the fresh growth to fill out that area

5g Pictures:

FTS:









Moss is really filling in well


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

And of course, some pictures of Mr. Betta 

He wasn't cooperating at first: 

_Hi mom, I'll pose for you, but not so you can see my fins_ :hihi:









But then he started swimming around so I snapped a few pics with the flash:



























And then I took out the mirror, sometimes he couldn't care less about seeing another Betta (he's maybe the least aggressive Betta I've ever owned :hihi) but tonight he decided just to sit in one place, fins open and stare at his reflection so I managed to get a few good shots without the flash, gives a better idea of his true color 



























as you can see, his fins continue to improve greatly! :biggrin: :hihi:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

So cute. I've nicknamed Mr. Betta "Freckles." :biggrin: The mosses are looking great. 
Can't wait until it grows in......Wait.....I've said that like six times now.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Freckles is a good nickname for him! :hihi: 

and yes, we're all anxious for the moss to grow in :icon_lol:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Mr. Freckles Betta......sounds.......strange. LOL. Still, that's my favorite description. I should be a writer with my cleverness.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Hahahaha you SHOULD be a writer with all of your creativeness!


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

Hey Kara how is the tank progressing? Any new photos?


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Hey aquastudent, thanks for checking in! The tank is looking pretty good, progression has slowed some, I don't have any new pictures, i've been studying for my first exam of the semester (which was today) and my first exam for my other class is next week so I'll probably be scarce again, but I'll try to get some pictures either this weekend or weds after my exam.  roud:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Kara, you need more plants. PM me your address again. I've got some for you.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Sara, you are amazing. Thanks! (and I do need some more plants, especially in the 30g though! :hihi


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

I know what you mean by getting caught up in studying for exams. I've got an Advanced Electricity and Magnetism physics exam this evening that I've been studying for constantly (with some TPT breaks)!

I've got a 5 gallon sitting empty just calling my name to set it up. I can't wait until I can get my hands wet again! Check out "the plan" if you haven't already. I would love to get your commentary on it.

What plants are you going to send her Sara? I would love to see some anubais in with the moss. I think a broad leafy plant will really help the tank fill out and would compliment the moss structures very well


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

As requested, here are some new pictures :hihi: I decided to take a study break to take and upload some pics because I probably won't have another chance until after my exam next weds (the serious studying starts tomorrow)  

Here is the 10g, plants are looking good. I added fresh root tabs a few weeks ago and I think the crypts are really enjoying them :biggrin: The flame moss is not growing back in as well as I had hoped, so I might be looking for something new for that part of the DW, but everything else is looking good. The anubias is throwing out new leaves in its new spot, the crypts not in the forest are doing really well too. 

So here's a FTS and some close-ups (sorry some of them are a little blurry)










Crypt forest:









DW and surrounding plants:









Anubias:









Fissidens:









And a bunch of shrimpies having fun:









The 5g is also doing well, the moss is REALLY starting to grow in now, the anubias is throwing out new leave, the crypt is getting huge and has thrown out TONS of new leaves and the pennywort is throwing out a few new leaves too. The water evaporates really quickly because I'm missing the back piece of plastic so I need to fix that and/or get better at top-offs because the top of the moss wall is struggling a little. But all in all, this tank is growing in really nicely :biggrin:

Here's a full tank shot and some close-ups:

FTS (sorry it's blurry):









Crypt doing REALLY well:









Anubias with it's shiny new leaf:









and some moss pics:



























And check out what's growing in the cave:


















I think Mr. Betta Freckles is cultivating this little crypt runner :hihi:









And just for fun the two tanks together :biggrin::


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## elliebellie (Jan 28, 2011)

Wow that betta tank is too cute!!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Thanks Ellie! :biggrin: I'm pretty happy with how it is growing in!


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Karackle said:


> I think Mr. Betta Freckles is cultivating this little crypt runner :hihi:


Great pictures! Just for what it is worth, that Mr Betta Freckles is awesome at growing crypts. Much better at it then myself. roud: I am not sure if I am just wanting to imagine it, but I swear those crypts are growing fast. Loving the moss now that it is growing in.


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

That crypt in Mr. Freckle's tank is HUGE! I don't think I have every seen a crypt like that. It's also so EPIC that he is "growing" his own crypt in his home. That's so great!

That crypt forest is also really cool. I like that look and may do something like that in the 10g when I have a few more crypt runners.

Good luck with the studying


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Wow, I just looked back at pictures from ~2 weeks ago and ~1 month ago and the crypt really HAS gotten huge! If you look at the crypt compared to the cave in the last set of pics, I'm pretty sure it HAS gotten 1) taller and b) leafier (as in it's thrown out a bunch of leaves). Sara, THAT growth, is pretty much 100% thanks to your root tabs! :biggrin: 

I might actually pilfer the huge crypt from the 5, put it in the 30 somewhere that could use it and steal a crypt from the 10g to replace it. But I'll wait to make any changes until a) I get my plants from Sara 2) I've gotten through my mid-term on weds :tongue:

Sara and AquaStudent - Thanks! And I'll pass on the kind words to Mr. Freckles, I swear he must have a little light in his house there that he shines for the crypt in his house, and I think he must tend very lovingly to the one outside his house because it certainly seem to be growing well! :hihi:

As for the crypt forest, I basically just started with a couple of plants that I spaced apart from each other in a general area, and then just let them fill themselves in, it took a while, but I love how it came out


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Gotta thank that guy Riiz that posted instructions on another forum! I just modified it a bit. Those root tabs are great. I need to make some for myself. I keep forgetting.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

want me to send you back a few? :hihi: well then I thank him for the recipe and you for making up a batch and sending me some :biggrin:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

You know me, give credit where credit is due. Nah, you keep them. I actually think I have some hiding around here somewhere. If not, I have like 5 tons of clay.  Kara, do you want another part of that anubias I sent you? I am starting to really hate that plant for some reason....


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

I guess that's a lot of clay to make more! :hihi: 

And sure, I'll take ANY plants you want to send me (as long as they don't need high light / high tech of course :hihi: )


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

I'm going to send you everything I can think of. I need space now thanks to CT and Brad.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

hahahaha ok that sounds good to me!!! And then I will post LOTS of before and after pictures :hihi:


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

Jeez I'm late to your journal due to your spamming on mine lol everything is looking great kara!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Hahahaha well at least you know I won't get mad at you since it's my fault for keeping you busy :hihi:

and thanks! I'm excited for my new plants from Sara, then i think they'll be looking even better! :biggrin: And i REALLY need to get a black background on the 10 (and the 30 for that matter)


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

paint the backgrounds on


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

but that would involve breaking down the tanks which i don't think i'm up for right now :tongue:


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

Get a small roller and hold your cords up and paint lol


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

I'll send you a cover for the 10. I have one floating around here. Poster board for the 30.


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

i use felt on my tank and it worked great! pain to get to hold on the back. thinking of cleaning the back and then painting it lol but then again im not sure that the 75 will be the tank i take with me when i move. going to talk the hubby into me getting a even bigger tank lol like 120


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Hahahaha well I DO have some tiny rollers from when we painted the whole house.......but do i have the right paint? :tongue: 

Sara, that would be FANTASTIC if you really have a spare! Or I can just run to PetSmart or the A.C.Moore to find something  

Brad, that definitely sounds like too much work if you're not planning to take the 75 with you, in fact, even if you do take it with you, you might as well just wait until you have to empty for the move anyway to paint it  or a 120  Also....you're moving?! but you just finished making yourself a fish room! :hihi:


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

Yah maybe not sure just yet


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

maybe you are moving?


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

Depends. I'm sry on one place and he don't like it lol. Ill win though


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

ahhhh fair enough.....it definitely helps to agree on the place :hihi:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Kara, I am totally going to cry taking down this tank, lol. Promise to give my plants a good home. :hihi:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Aw Sara! Don't cry! You KNOW your plants will get a great new home!!! :biggrin:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

That's all that gets me through.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

:biggrin: I do what I can


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Just a quick "update" while I take a study break to say that Sara sent me a TON of plants this week as well as a black background for the 10g so stay tuned for some real updates with new pics some time after my exam is over with tomorrow! :biggrin:


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

PFFFT!! I just clicked on both of your journals to get the same message on both!

Such a tease... :hihi:


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## elliebellie (Jan 28, 2011)

Yay! Can't wait for the pix!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

lauraleellbp said:


> PFFFT!! I just clicked on both of your journals to get the same message on both!
> 
> Such a tease... :hihi:


Hahahaha yeah....i guess i could have only updated the 30 since it's been longer....but....you know.....Sorry about that! 

But next time there should be pics and changes 

Thanks EllieBellie! I'll the tanks planted and photographed just as soon as I can! :hihi:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Just so you know, the back of the background is blue. :hihi: I didn't know it was reversible for months....

Kara - get back to studying!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Hahahaha I noticed that, you had the blue facing out the way it was rolled :hihi: It's a nice shade of blue, maybe i'll see how it looks and get some opinions on here before i stick it on permanently :biggrin: 

I'm going, I'm going! :hihi: (for the record though I wrote the previous post a few hours prior to yours )


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Personally, I preferred the black, but I have blue on the 55 cause I hung up the wrong side. Lmao! I'm just harassing you so you get an A. :flick:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Hahahaha LOVE IT! I usually prefer the black as well, but I'll see how the blue looks before I make a final decision because I realized I do like the way the blue background looks on Fishbreaths 2 tank system.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Fishbreath's tank is amazing. The thing I don't like about the blue is it messes with the drop checker, but since you don't have one, you should be a-okay.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

hahahahahaha good point!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Finally got everything planted! 

here are some "before" teaser shots with some of the plants waiting for new homes floating while I get the rest of the photos uploaded  

10g before shot:









5g before shot:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

And now for the updates! The 10g is VERY full now and I'm loving it! :hihi: One of the other lovely pieces of DW that Sara sent me had a nice arch in it with some moss and java ferns on it so i sort of wove it into he piece of DW that I already have in here. I rested the [STRIKE]riccia (i think thats the seaweed looking one?)[/STRIKE] subwassertang on top of the flame moss that wasn't growing well and used the new piece of DW with the ferns to sort of hold the ball-o-subwassertang in place :hihi: Anyway, I know you just want to see the pictures! 

A few FTS:



























And I had planned to get opinions on bue vs. black as a background, but there is so much algae on the back you can't really tell the difference :hihi: so until I scrape it off, those pics will have to wait, but until then at least you CAN see that it looks better without being able to see a corner of window behind the tank









A couple close-ups of some of the new stuff

New piece of DW with the java ferns:









and the [STRIKE]riccia[/STRIKE] subwassertang:









Thanks for looking!


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

That's actually subwassertang lol I know the spelling is off. Looks good kara!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

And now for the 5g, I added another anubias to the rock with the anubias that was already in this tank, and there are some moss tiles, I reloaded one with i think it's either peackock or fissidens, and I added a bunch of moss (fissidens or peacock?) to the top of the cave, I figured I might as well add some different kinds of moss to the mix and see what happens :biggrin: :hihi: right now it's just sort of resting on top because it was a perfect little round mat of moss :hihi: but if it refuses to stay in place I'll pull out the cave and moss and sew it on top :biggrin:

Ok, pictures! 

a few FTS first:



























and some close-ups 

anubias 


















new moss top on the cave, kinda like a tupe :hihi:









left side of the cave (not sure what this plant is?) :









moss tiles:









Another huge thank you to Sara (sewingalot) for the plants that have helped me fill out these two tanks! :biggrin:

As always, all comments, questions, concerns, compliments, critiques and anything else alliterative are welcome  :hihi:

thanks for looking!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

oh cool, thanks for the plant ID Brad! And thanks for the compliment!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

also it occurs to me....I thought Sara said she threw in some riccia, so, if she didn't....what does that one look like? I hope I didn't throw it away thinking it was "debris".....


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Karackle said:


> also it occurs to me....I thought Sara said she threw in some riccia, so, if she didn't....what does that one look like? I hope I didn't throw it away thinking it was "debris".....


Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! That would be it.  Thank your lucky stars for this fortunate mistake. Riccia is evil. Kara! The tanks look fabulous!!!!! The toupe is a type of fissidens sp. There are two types I seen now, one is longer than the other. Brad is correct about the subwassertang (which I can't spell, so I am impressed.)

A few of those plants came from Brad, and one you are asking about starts with an Rancusomethingoranother.

I see Mr Betta Freckles approves of the annubias. roud:

I'll comment more when I am more awake. 


P.s. I kind of miss the window glare.....isn't that funny?


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

These tanks are really coming together!

The 5 gallon is looking great! i love how well the moss structures are developing. it would be very cool if theres a mix of different "mosses" in the structures.

The 10 is just looking awesome. The plants look all so healthy. Please clean that algae on the back wall  the extra contrast with the black (or blue whichever you choose) will make everything stand out so much better.

And Mr. Freckles is still looking amazing


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## elliebellie (Jan 28, 2011)

Wow they are both so beautiful! The moss cave is starting to really rock!


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## demonbreedr16 (Jan 10, 2008)

I agree with the other posters! The tanks are really looking good! 

BTW: I personally like black backgrounds more then blue but that's just my opinion and I vote pick for w/e one you like best!


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

I vote for the algae to stay! Wait, what are we voting for again?


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

sewingalot said:


> I vote for the algae to stay! Wait, what are we voting for again?


Same! I vote with Sara. Idk what I'm voting on. But Sara is cool enough it really doesn't matter


You can call me Bob


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Sara - HAHAHAHAHAHA well if riccia is that evil I guess I'm glad I accidentally tossed it :hihi: I am thoroughly enjoying the moss toupee on the cave, I hope it takes off there to add a new dimension to the tank by adding a new kind of moss to the scape. Rancusomethingorother is a perfectly decent ID for me :hihi: And yes, mr. freckles definitely approves of his new anubias and all of his other new plants :biggrin:

AquaStudent - thanks! I'm very pleased with how the moss structures are growing in too! And yes, I agree, I'm trying to incorporate more kinds of moss into here with the fissidens toupee on top of the moss cave and the moss tiles that Sara gave me roud: And I will work on getting rid of the algae on the back to add some nice contrast to the tank, even if others have voted for me to keep the algae there :icon_lol:

Ellie, Demon and Orchid - Thanks! I appreciate the kind and encouraging words!!!


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

orchidman said:


> Same! I vote with Sara. Idk what I'm voting on. But Sara is cool enough it really doesn't matter
> 
> 
> You can call me Bob


:icon_redf How sweet to say so, Bob. How is the tank coming along?

Kara, I remember someone saying that I was a true gardener because I said something like "I don't know what this is, but I grow it anyway." Also, I now figured out why you are encouraging me not to give up my tanks. How many plants have I given you over the years now? You'd loose one of your main suppliers. :hihi:

Yes, be glad the evil riccia went away. Duckweed is easier to kill. Seriously. :icon_mad:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Hahahaha Sara, you caught me! I need my supplier! :hihi: And yeah, I just like growing the plants I like and that like to grow for me :biggrin: which is why I'm not too fussy about getting all the names correct, I have my own names for most things :hihi:

I know you all are going to be super excited about this, I have some new pics to update with! I added root tabs to all of my tanks today, and since my hands were in the tank obviously I had to rearrange some things :hihi: So I snapped a few pics along the way

Not much has changed in the 10g, I only added root tabs and you can't see those, but I snapped a FTS for good measure  









I rearranged a few things in the 5g though. I had a nice little red sword of some kind (melon maybe?) in my 30g, it was doing well for a while, but recently has been doing less well so I thought I would try it in the 5g where it will get a bit more light :biggrin: So I moved over one of the moss tiles and put in the sword. I also moved the right "pillar" a bit further over so the crypt would have more space to grow. I added a couple root tabs to this tank too, under the sword and under the crypt. 

When I pulled out the sword and saw nice healthy roots on it despite some dying leaves I figured it was definitely worth a shot planting it the 5g:


















which kind of moss is this? it sort of looks like flame but I don't think mine is ever this "curly"


















I like how the "landscaping" around the cave is looking :hihi:









FTS









And Mr. Freckles was not being very cooperative for pictures today because he was busy exploring, but here are a few shots I was able to get so you can sort of see how "flowy" his fins are getting again :biggrin:




































Also, look at what snuck into the tank.....i guess I didn't miss all of the "debris" :hihi: but it's gone now


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Oh I like the new look!

Looks like flame moss to me.

And I think that's suesswassertang or pellia, not riccia?


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Yup, that's not riccia. But I do see some pieces of it stuck in the su.....ertang or pellia. I forget which one it is. Kara, I love every thing about it. Especially how happy Mr Betta Freckles looks! By the way, that is some kind of flame I think. I am noticing I had two types - one spiraled and one didn't so much. You may get plants from me, but good luck finding out the names. I've collected so much, I've forgotten what half of them are.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Thanks LauraLee! Also, thanks for the reminder that the seaweedy lettucey looking plant isn't riccia, I fixed it in the original post :hihi: 

Sara, thanks! Mr. Betta Freckles is definitely super happy exploring his new surroundings! he likes to wriggle himself through and around and under all of the leaves :hihi: 

And thanks for the moss ID ladies, I thought it was flame moss, but like I said, mine isn't quite so spiraled, but if there are at least 2 varieties, one spiraled and one just a bit curvy, then that would make total sense! :hihi: Sara you know I don't care about definite IDs, I was just curious because it's such a cool moss with those spiraled fronds! :biggrin:


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

Karackle said:


> Thanks LauraLee! Also, thanks for the reminder that the seaweedy lettucey looking plant isn't riccia, I fixed it in the original post :hihi:
> 
> Sara, thanks! Mr. Betta Freckles is definitely super happy exploring his new surroundings! he likes to wriggle himself through and around and under all of the leaves :hihi:
> 
> And thanks for the moss ID ladies, I thought it was flame moss, but like I said, mine isn't quite so spiraled, but if there are at least 2 varieties, one spiraled and one just a bit curvy, then that would make total sense! :hihi: Sara you know I don't care about definite IDs, I was just curious because it's such a cool moss with those spiraled fronds! :biggrin:


by betta, leroy, likes to do that as well! he likes to go underneath the dwarf sag even though he barely and has to go sideways sometimes


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

wow this looks awesome  I agree with them on the ID of some sort of flame moss.

He really is making a lot of progress with his fins  That's very good to see


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

hahahaha yes! some of the leaves are so low he has to flip onto his side and shimmy under the leaves :hihi: he's so silly


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

Karackle said:


> hahahaha yes! some of the leaves are so low he has to flip onto his side and shimmy under the leaves :hihi: he's so silly


yep, thats what mine does


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

First, I want a picture of the beta shimmy dance. Second, I am posting this to annoy you because I know you are trying to catch up on your reading TPT. :tongue:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

I will do my best to get a picture of the shimmy dance, and when I saw you were the most recent post I just KNEW you did it to mess with me :hihi:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Do you know what would look perfect on this tank? A background.  *runs to hide behind the dog*


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

ROLMAO you can come out from behind the dog because I deserve that, I DID promise those pictures didn't I? Here you go, enjoy!

Snail art:



























Black background:


















as you can see, it's light out, but you can't see that through the tank anymore:








incidentally, i'm a little worried the plants won't do as well without that extra light, so i'm going to keep a close eye and if they start to suffer, i might take the background back off :hihi:

shrimp:



























And I tried to get some pictures of the betta shimmy dance but i was unsuccessful, here are some of him hiding though


















and another random, slightly blurry one









enjoy!


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

those are very nice looking tanks
so i must respond by saying thanks
(for posting)


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

hahaha thanks NonC! :biggrin: :hihi: 

thanks for the rhyme
it came just in time 
to make me smile
i'll be here a while
so i needed that break
it's all i can take
and now back to work 
'cause my boss is a jerk
that's actually not true
i'll confide to you
she's a very nice lady
it's me that is shady
i don't even recall
what my point is at all
so now i will end
again thank you my friend


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

Karackle said:


> and now back to work
> 'cause my boss is a jerk
> that's actually not true
> i'll confide to you
> ...


that was great.:hihi:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

hahahahaha i do what i can :hihi:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Since you asked and it is officially tomorrow.... :tongue:










Your tanks were dim,
They sure looked grim.
Your fish got sick of looking at them.

They called me up
"Help, our tanks they need filled with something more than a cup!"
I said, "Sure, I'll help you. Yup."

Tore down my tank
Because yours looked rank.
So when Ian looks happily inside - he's got me to thank.

Mr Betta Freckles was so happy he began to shimmy.
His lid for an escape route he no longer attempts to jimmie.
This would have been easier if his name was Timmy. 

I love the black 
you placed on the back
but I miss the snail art
I do, I do - with all my heart!


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

Those are Telly good Sara!! I had to write some for my literature class. And I really like writing them. But I never thought to write about tanks! I think my two favorites I've written are one about an orchid and one about a wild fire 


You can call me Bob


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Haha, thanks, Bob. Luckily for everyone else, this is the last of my poetry for quite a while. I think I have made my point _ad nauseam_. Kara and non-c have been excellent adversaries, but it is time to hang up my hat. Don't want to bring out the (other) trolls.  I need to set a better example. LOL. Pm me your writings if you like. I'm always interested. Or you can post them in my 55 gallon journal. As far as not thinking about writing about tanks, I don't really think about what I'm going to write. Usually I wing it based on my surroundings. I used to have friends that would challenge me to make something up about a given subject. It may be bad, but I guarantee you I can come back with something quickly. Grow up most of your life without television, internet, or even books and you'll find ways to entertain yourself out of boredom. There is just so much sewing a gal can do. 

Kara - I have an important question. Did you leave the snail art?


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

I LOVE THE POEM! hahahahaha if his name was Timmy :hihi:

And yes, I left the snail art.

I agree with Orchid too, your poems are excellent!


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

I love these tanks
And the poetry
No need to give thanks
For this soliloquy

I'm not as clever
As some another member
but I love this endeavor
And will always remember

All that everyone has taught me
I hope to make a plethor-a
Of tanks to set more bettas free
From those awful conditions at the store

And now I have wasted a good amount of time
Trying to put together this rhyme
I must go now I have physics to do
Before my teacher beats me into a stew



Anyway...I love the tanks


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

AH! HOW DID I MISS SUCH AN AMAZING POEM?!

Aquastudent your soliloquy
means so very much to me
thank you much for taking the time
to make me such a wonderful rhyme! :biggrin:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Not a whole lot has changed yet so I don't have any pics, just wanted to update that my poor Mr. Betta has ich  but i've got the temp on the rise for him and hopefully that will get him feeling better soon!


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

Oh no! I'm sorry to hear that. I hope that nasty stuff gets nipped quickly


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Thanks me too! In somewhat lucky news, Ian had to stay home today to wait for the plumber so he's keeping an eye on the temp and adjusting for me because it had stabilized only at ~82 overnight. So hopefully it'll be a balmy 86 by the time I get home today roud:


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

Whats with you two girls and plumbing problems? Sit. Wipe. Flush. (Plunge)


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Boys and bathroom humor.......









Kara! Hurry up and get home and tell us how the betta is doing (and think of something smart to say back to our friend here. I'm outta ideas.)


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

sewingalot said:


> Boys and bathroom humor.......
> 
> 
> 
> ...


But I thought you were saving the big one.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

My mind is so focused on my plans, I can't even think about small retorts at this point. Don't worry, Kara's going to help me, so it'll be a tag-team attack.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Um excuse me but I'm the fastest girl in the bathroom EVER! :hihi: we needed the plumber because the hot water on our new sink completely stopped working the other day. The water pressure was never as good when you switched to hot, but then it completely stopped the other day. But it's fixed.

Mr. Betta is doing well, he was just as excited as always to eat his dinner. The only problem is that I've got the heater cranked up as high as it goes and the tank is holding temp at 82 only. So i've added my nano heater that doesn't have a temp setting to see if that will add a couple degrees, the only problem THERE is that the internal thermostat is probably set to below 86 sooooo i don't know what to do. I could pull the heater from the 10g because I unplugged it the other day because the 10g was overheated, the problem _there_ is that i don't know if i bumped the knob when I was rescaping, or if the heater is malfunctioning, and i also worry that heater would be too powerful for the 5g because it's quite a bit bigger. 

I'm willing to hear any advice on this one! THANKS!


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

82 F will work OK, you just also need to be sure to use a medication to kill off the ich as IME it's not quite high enough to rely on temp alone.

You CAN treat ich just at "normal" temps- increasing the temp just makes the treatment go faster since it makes the ich move through their lifecycles more quickly and therefore more quickly be exposed to the meds at the right stage and killed.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

I think we DO have ich meds on hand but I didn't want to use them because it's so hard to get the dose right on a 5g. I'll see how the addition of the second heater works if that pushes the temp up at all. I also have salt, but does that only work/help if the temp is at 86?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

No, salt can help no matter the temp- salt will kill ich and can also help prevent 2ndary infections in the wounds left behind on the fish by the parasites.

What dosing instructions do you have for the med you do have? You may be able to mix up a dosage in a bit of water as if it were for a 10gal tank, then just add 1/2 of that to your tank.


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

Everything Laura said is exactly what I've heArd. Keep is updated on his condition


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Yeah Kara, the salts are better than meds IMO. The meds tend to over stress an already stressed fish. Try to feed him well through the process to keep him happy.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Kara, I have a few spare heaters laying around, do you want me to ship one up to you? Let me know and I'll have it on the next plane. Laura, do bettas tolerate salt well? I've often just used the heat method to get rid of ich (thankfully it has been many years ago). I do agree with Chad on medications. I only like to use them as a last resort.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Thanks everyone for the input and concern, I really appreciate it! 

A quick update, Mr Betta seems to be doing fine, the tank was still only at 82 this morning so I moved him with some plants, his filter and an airstone into a ~3g kritter keeper. The good news is that the heater is powerful enough to heat the smaller tank to 86, the bad news is that even though i had turned it down a few clicks to account for the smaller volume, the tank was at almost 92 when I got home (so thank you for the offer Sara, I really appreciate it but I think we're good ). As I already said, mr. betta face is fine, he even ate dinner as voraciously as ever. Needless to say, I turned the heater down and removed a little bit of water and replaces it with some slightly cooler water and added a bit of salt. Some of the plants may not have appreciated the high temps, but we shall see.

So the plan now is to let him hang out in his hot tub for a couple days while I nuke the 5g with ich meds and do some water changes and vacuum out any debris. I think what happened was that some leaves on the large crypt (which may have been the source of the ich because it came from the pet store, though i know it can also just be in tap water) melted but it was so lush I didn't see them and the water got just a bit fouled allowing the ich to take over. 

What is the standard protocol for how long I should leave him at 86? It looks like the spots are already gone (with the temp at 92 that's maybe not surprising....oops!)

Also, should I take out all of the plants and put them in the hot tub with the betta before nuking the 5g with ich meds? Or will they be ok if i leave them where they are?

Thanks again!


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

Take the plants out before medicating. Also leave him at the
Temp he is at for another 2 days to be safe and then slowly start putting the temp back at what you had it at


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

2 days is probably on the short side. I thought you treated ICH for at least 4 days after the last white spot.

I'm glad to hear Mr. Betta survived his "Very Hot Tub" Wow...92 really is HOT!


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

I agree with aquastudent. I've always treated at least 5-10 days. A little on the cautious side, but often times there is also the problem of not treating long enough and it comes back.

http://aqualandpetsplus.com/Misc What is Ich.htm

:hihi: Hot tub. I still like it the second time hearing it.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Thanks everyone for the input, I really appreciate it! Once again, it's greatly appreciated. Luckily, it's relatively easy to take plants out of this tank, so i'll remove what I can fit in the "hot tub tank" so that any ich on the plants gets killed. Everything that won't fit in with him is unfortunately going to have to stay in the tank so I can make sure that the ich gets killed and i'll just have to keep my fingers crossed that the plants make it, to me the fish is the most important part so I want to make sure i get rid of the ich even if i have to sacrifice some of the plants roud:

Mr. Betta is still hanging out in his hot tub, he seems to be doing well. The lights weren't on yet when i checked in this morning, so I'll head upstairs in a few to check how many spots we have today. I think I will play it safe and keep him in there for about 5 days, maybe a week if I can keep the water conditions ok, and that will give me time to do more water changes anyway which will be good roud:


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

I have never heard that ich will live on plants. Who said that?


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Brad - As far as I'm aware, ich can basically come in through the tap water, I did a little bit of reading and it sounds like the parasites are free-swimming in their larval stage and can survive a few days, only the adults require a host. In a well-balanced aquarium, you'll rarely see a problem, but if the fish is stressed (due to poor water quality or whatever) and therefore their immune system isn't up to par, that's when you usually see symptoms. 

In fact, I think that's what happened here. I believe it was a combination of lack of a "clean-up crew" to take care of the extra food he misses and some melted leaves that I didn't see fouling the water that did the poor guy in. 

I figured I would show a couple pics of his temporary apartment, he's on the mend, NO white spots today at all, seems like he's enjoying his hot tub :hihi: I added a second air-powered filter to the tank to try and keep the water quality good for him while he heals  I put his cave in the tank and put the fissidens toupee inside it to make it a little more comfy in there for him :tongue: I also put a small internal filter in the 5g, it's way too powerful for a betta tank, but it should do the job of cleaning it up some while Mr. Betta heals so it will be ready for him when he's healthy  I've also been doing daily 50% water changes and I bought some ich meds today to dose the tank with for a few days roud: 

Ok, picture time!

The lovely apartment:









The cave with moss bed:









The extra sponge filter:









A nice resting spot :hihi:


















found a setting that got the tank to exactly 86 roud::









And the sad looking 5g:








it just occurred to me that I can stand the columns back up now because I'm using the critter keeper lid and not the glass canopy now :tongue:


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## elliebellie (Jan 28, 2011)

Glad to see things are looking up!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

thanks Ellie! Me too, phew! 

Oh, I also forgot to mention that the nice large crypt totally melted overnight so I had to pull it  On the bright side I think I have more than enough in my 10g to steal some to replace it in the 5g when it's ready to get set up again :hihi:


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

be careful with dosing ich medications on a planted tank. Aren't many medications very bad for plants and will cause melting?

Mr. Betta seems to be looking up.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Probably, but all that is left in the tank is the moss which is pretty hardy so I'm hoping for the best. It's ich meds or hot water, neither of which is the most plant friendly so, keep your fingers crossed for me and my plants! And for mr. betta too! 

And yes, he seems to be doing well so far. I'm doing daily water changes and filter sponge rinses. I hope he stays on the up and up!


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

problemman said:


> I have never heard that ich will live on plants. Who said that?


Ich cysts can settle on any surface in a tank. So plants coming from a tank where ich is present can carry ich into a new tank.

There is a temperature-sensitive timeframe in which the ich would hatch and need to be able to find a host fish or die, however.

Crossing my fingers for Mr. Betta #18 (or whatever ) He's been a survivor this far, though!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

lauraleellbp said:


> Ich cysts can settle on any surface in a tank. So plants coming from a tank where ich is present can carry ich into a new tank.
> 
> There is a temperature-sensitive timeframe in which the ich would hatch and need to be able to find a host fish or die, however.


A much more complete answer than the one I gave  :hihi:



lauraleellbp said:


> Crossing my fingers for Mr. Betta #18 (or whatever ) He's been a survivor this far, though!


Hahahaha yes, he has been so far! And thus far he is still doing well, no spots for a couple days, been changing 50% of the water in his hot tub each day to keep his water quality as good as possible in his little holding tank. And the 5g seems to be doing well, the water is clear (it was murky the other day after uprooting the dead crypt and whatnot), i've spotted a few other dead leaves lurking in the substrate so I'll do a gravel vac tomorrow and do a 50% water change. I'm fairly certain there are no more cysts in there because there was no Betta for them to attach to for a couple days even before I added the ich medication, but i'm definitely going to play it safe and continue treating the tank for a couple more days while Mr. Betta head hangs out in his hot tub roud:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Kara, I am glad to hear the news about Mr. Betta Freckles. The sauna must be good on his joints. :hihi:

Speaking of ich....grumble. I felt sorry for you, so I went and got a betta to infect my tank. Didn't want you to suffer alone. 

Also, I noticed despite the ich issue, the big guy's fins are looking really good in those last few pictures you took. roud:

(Did you ever notice when we talk to each other on the forum we both used 80000 smileys? LOL)


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

sewingalot said:


> (Did you ever notice when we talk to each other on the forum we both used 80000 smileys? LOL)


I have.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Is there anything you don't notice, non-c? (I'm starting to realize you are VERY observant.) LMAO.

Kara's studying too hard. I need to get onto to her to loaf some more....


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Hahaha yes, I have noticed that! But I love them! And I find that they really help to convey "tone of voice" and help avoid people taking things the wrong way roud: also they're cute :hihi:

And yes, Mr. Betta Freckles' fins are looking GREAT! 

So I really think part of the problem here was missed pieces of food rotting and fouling the water....what kind of cleanup crew can I put in the 5g? If I try to put RCS in there, I think he'll eat them right? Should I get a couple amanos or something? or will they only eat algae? Or should I just toss in a LOT of RCS and hope some of them make it?

Also I've been loafing a lot more this semester, AND doing better in class.....maybe more relaxation and less stress is the key :hihi:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Yeah, it helps a lot to relax. I had a 4.0 in college for the first year, 3.9 for the rest of the time and the last semester, I blew my GPA because of senioritis.  I think if you don't learn how to relax along the way, you may burn out.

Yes, they are cute. I like this one: :tongue: and I am not sure but, I am always wanting to use  but I can rarely find an appropriate reason to. Maybe we should make sure to use a LOT of smileys when we talk to non-c? :hihi:

Yay on the fins! I'm happy to see that. Put a RCS in the tank with him and see how he reacts. That should tell you without loosing a bunch. He looks like the fiesty type that will eat himself silly on shrimp.

Oh, and Kara? :icon_cool:thumbsup: LOL


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Senioritis! NO!!!!!! I actually did a lot better my junior and senior year, but I blame it on the department thinking freshman can handle the hardest classes when all we were doing was partying 

Non-C has no idea what he's in for now! :icon_lol:

I think putting in one RCS and seeing how he reacts to it is actually an excellent idea, this is why I love the forums! The simple but brilliant idea I would have skipped right over, someone else can suggest it to me! roud:

Some of my favorites: :redface: :tongue: :eek5: :hihi: :biggrin: roud: :icon_eek: :angryfire :icon_twis 

though I don't have much occasion for the last 2, but i like them


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## elliebellie (Jan 28, 2011)

Lol! Just reading all your cute little smiley posts makes my day more sunny!


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

Karackle said:


> Non-C has no idea what he's in for now! :icon_lol:


the anticipation is killing me.


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

Good idea with the RCS but how do you decide which Cherry gets to be the guinea pig?  "Eany-Meany-Miney-Moe..."

Also, depending on the amount of cover the tank provides it may be possible to keep some Cherries in there, some of them may get eaten but others could live. Idk...it's a possibility.

I feel like a Cherry Shrimp meal would be the best thing for a betta. you knock out 2 food groups in one...protein and fruit. (jkjk)

I'm starting to understand more about college. I'm currently a Sophomore (Junior by credits) physics and mathematics major. There are times to work hard and there are times to relax.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

I am really:icon_smil for Mr. Betta freckles. His poor fins made me:icon_frow but you seem to have it taken care of. Hopefully  dont abduct him next. I would be :icon_evil if anything ever happend to him  Can we see some more pics, i could use the :help: As for the :smile: they dont bother me. At least I know when you are :hihi: or :flick: I think they are a good:icon_idea


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Ya'll are entirely neglecting the most important smiley EVER!!

:bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

:icon_lol: Chad - hilarious. I'm very glad he is doing well and hope he doesn't get abducted by  either! I'll try to get some more pics of him, but it's hard to get them in his hot tub, so they might have to wait until he's back in his 5g tank, but that will be pretty soon. I'm going to do a large water change on the 5g tonight to remove the meds, and then do another water change tomorrow and either put him back in his home or do wait one more day and do a third large water change. We'll see. 

Ellie - thanks!!!! glad to brighten your day! :biggrin:

NonC - you have NO idea what we have in store for you....that reminds me....i have to work on my part....:icon_twis :flick:

Aqua - I guess the first RCS I can snag will have to be the (potentially) unfortunate guinea pig. 

:icon_eek: Laura you're right! I did forget one of the most important ones! How else would people know when I'm this excited?! :bounce: I also forgot to mention I like :fish: too, but I also don't have much occasion to use him. :bounce: love him!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

for those who asked I TRIED to get a shot of Mr. Betta Freckles fins looking good, but it was hard to get a good one in the hot tub. The lighting is weird in it, there's no background or substrate or many plants....it's just not very conducive to good pictures, but I tried!  

These were the best I could get:


















He's still doing pretty well, but I'm getting nervous about him in such a small tank, I think I'm going to put him back in the 5g tomorrow. It's hard enough to keep a fully planted 5g stable, this semi-planted 3g hot tub makes me nervous!


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Laura, my eyes are hurting now. LOL. Chad, you are funny! It took me like 5 minutes to read that. :hihi:



nonconductive said:


> the anticipation is killing me.


That's my plan. :icon_mrgr I'm telling you, the anticipation is the best part. You are going to be depressed when you see the final project. 

Kara - Mr. Betta Freckles looks fabulous! :bounce: I'm sure he'll be happy to get back home. I'd be sure to acclimate him due to the temperature difference.

Oh, yeah. That's why I like forums too. But I can't take credit for that idea. That's all on non-c and his seeing if blue would work with the shrimp. So I'm just the middle man. :thumbsup:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Yes, I will definitely acclimate him, that reminds me I actually meant to turn down his heater this morning a bit so i can slowly adjust him back to a cooler temp. I'll have to do it when I get home and once it gets closer put the heater back in the 5g to get that one warming back up. (the moral of this story is that I should probably get a small spare heater! :tongue 

And thanks, I think he's looking pretty awesome myself! :bounce: but I think he'll be even happier when he gets back home roud:

I'm debating whether I want to keep the columns or use the moss for a different project....thoughts?


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

the moss columns are pretty unique


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

AquaStudent said:


> the moss columns are pretty unique


that's definitely a good point, I'll let them grow out longer before I decide whether or not they stay permanently :hihi:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

I put Mr. Betta Freckles back in his home this morning! :bounce: I think he's much happier already :biggrin: 

I did a bunch of rearranging too so it looks a lot different, I will post pictures tonight  I made the switch before the lights came on, and now I'm at study group so I can't post them any sooner, or I would  

I decided to keep the second air-powered filter in the tank for now, it's a bit of an eyesore, but I think it will help with water quality, along with more frequent water changes, until I get my clean-up crew sorted out. Incidentally, I'm willing to hear any and all ideas for a 5g clean-up crew. I'll try an RCS in there, but I'm open to other options as well. Will amanos eat leftover food, or are they algae only? 

Also, the 10g continues to do well, I'll get some new pics of that tonight as well roud:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Kara, throw in some pond snails and call it a day.  Is a 5 gallon too small for some of those mini catfish? That could be neat. I know nothing about Amanos except they still creep me out a tiny bit. LOL. 

Glad to hear Mr. Betta made it! (I couldn't have the co-star of our story not get well :hihi


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

Bamboo shrimp give me the willies as well as Amanos


You can call me Bob


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

have you thought about a nerite?


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

sewingalot said:


> Kara, throw in some pond snails and call it a day.  Is a 5 gallon too small for some of those mini catfish? That could be neat.


There are some snails in there but they're not cutting it, I could toss in a few more but i think i still need something else. As for pygmy cories (if that's what you meant) I tried them in a 5 once before and it didn't work out, not sure if it was too much waste or what happened. Might have been a QT issue (as in not doing it) but the betta was fine so i don't know. Maybe a pair of otos. 



sewingalot said:


> Glad to hear Mr. Betta made it! (I couldn't have the co-star of our story not get well :hihi


:icon_lol: that would definitely make it even more of a shame if he hadn't made it! let's just hope we don't have to go through this again!



sewingalot said:


> I know nothing about Amanos except they still creep me out a tiny bit. LOL.





orchidman said:


> Bamboo shrimp give me the willies as well as Amanos


Hahahaha you guys are silly! Shrimp aren't creepy they're cool! Sara, don't have yellow shrimp that you love? LOL And bamboos are totally fascinating to watch them feed!



AquaStudent said:


> have you thought about a nerite?


Nah....snails are not really my thing, if it comes down to my only option, maybe, but what i really need is someone to pick up the pieces of food Mr. Betta misses more than someone to eat algae.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Yellow shrimp are the exception. I'd carry one around in my pocket if I could. They are the cat's pajamas, the cream filling of the oreo cookie, the potatoes in the stew, the Jameson of the shrimp world! :hihi:

Sounds like shrimp are the ideal candidate. That is if Mr. Betta doesn't eat them.

Speaking of which, did you read him the story yet? LOL.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

I got a little picture happy, so I hope you all enjoy :hihi: 

Mr. Betta Freckles is back in his home :bounce: I did some rearranging from the previous layout, let me know what you think!  

Tank Shots:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

And some betta shots, he was being a ham :hihi:






















































hiding in his anubias :hihi:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

And a BUNCH of shots of the 10g. I didn't realize the FTS was SO blurry, but I think the various other shots of everything around the tank make up for it? :tongue:

FTS - warning, extremely blurry:













































fissidens has some nice new growth:









pellia (or whatever this is) is doing well:









java ferns on the log "bridge" doing well:









java fern extending into the gravel with it's new leaves  









and a couple shrimp pics:


















enjoy and thanks for looking! as always any and all input is welcome roud:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Looks fantastic. I love the new placement of the anubias in the 5 gallon. And smart move hiding the new filter with a column. I think I like that you moved them both to the side like that. Can get over how great the 10 gallon looks now! Everything is growing so well for you!! Most be those root tabs, lol. :biggrin:

Very happy to see Mr. Betta being a ham. I tell you, gets a few portraits drawn and a book written about him and the fame went straight to his head. :hihi: His fins are looking better every time I look at them. Loving the hiding pictures.

That green snot stuff is Subwassertang. I really like it. I've put pieces in ever tank I've owned.

Thanks for all the pictures, Kara! I feel spoiled this week. :biggrin:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Thanks! Yeah I though it was a good way to hide the extra filter, and if the moss keeps growing well it will hide it even better  I'm digging the asymmetry of the new setup too. 

And thanks on the 10g, I think the 10 is actually my favorite at the moment, I LOVE the way it looks right now! :biggrin: I think it's DEFINITELY the root tabs, I think they're the key to the awesome growth in all of my tanks roud: :hihi:

And yes, he was definitely being a ham which was a good sign, and I'm SO pleased with his fin regrowth! I think he actually might have more color now (at least more red), if you compare this recent picture:









with this old picture: 









Subwassertang! Why the bingblong can't I remember that?! LOL well whatever it's called, I'm really liking it :hihi:

glad you enjoyed all the pics Sara, I'll try not to spoil you TOO much :tongue:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Bingblong! I love this! New word to add to my PG diary. :hihi: You are indeed correct, he is getting more red in the fins. I can't wait until it grows in even more. It's neat how bettas change colors like that. George did the same thing. He went from flourescent blue to more dark blue, red in his old age. I miss that fish...

Don't feel bad, I have to look up Subwassertang every time I tell you what it is.


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

I don't even know how people can keep the spelling of "Subwassertang" constant.

It is cool to see bettas change color over time. He's looking great btw. His fins are looking so much better.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

hahahaha blingblong is definitely a good one! :hihi: 

Sara and Aqua - i totally agree, it's really neat to watch bettas change color as they age. He's definitely a bit less aqua and more red. Sara, it's interesting that your guy turned red as he aged too, i wonder if that's common? or at least common with the aqua / blue ones. 

And Aqua, thanks, i'm definitely really happy with how his fins are regrowing! :biggrin:

as for the subwassertang, I can't even remember it close enough to know what to look up :icon_lol:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Good question. I'll have to dig up my old journal and send you a link so you can see the dramatic difference. He reversed colors.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Wow! Your betta really made a nice recovery. Good job on saving him!!! The 10g is really coming along great too. I like all of the pics!


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## PinoyBoy (Mar 14, 2008)

Sorry, it feels like I'm crashing your own thread with your own pictures. LOL.
Age progression shot!

January 2010









No Idea 2010









Middle~ish of 2010









Early 2011









*April 2011 -- Up to date FTS* picture fixed and updated 









Just wondering, did you started out with those few crypt plants and small amount of java fern and never added any?

I love this tank.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Sara - I'd love to know!  

Chad - Thanks so much! :biggrin: I'm so happy too!

PinoyBoy - hey no worries, thanks for taking the time to make the progression!!! I actually really appreciate it  your last pic is a bit off though, this is what it looks like as of April 2011: 








(sorry it's blurry though)

but to answer your question, no i didn't add anymore crypts or java ferns from the original planting in Jan 2010, that just how much they've filled in roud: And thanks so much for the compliments! :biggrin: This has actually now become my favorite of my 3 tanks


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

it's really surprising how much crypts (and a lot of other plants will grow).

I feel like they just do it overnight too...i never see them do it...


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

it's so true. I never realize how much my plants have grown in until I look back at old pics....i think it's also to do with the fact that we see our own tanks every day :tongue:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Just a quick update (sorry no pics, been studying my buns off for my genetics exam) but I wanted to let everyone know Mr. Betta Freckles is still doing well roud:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Yay! I've missed you Kara! I bet you aced that test. You are sharper than my finest needle. :biggrin: Wonderful news about Mr Betta Freckles!


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

well make sure you put your buns back on when finished.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

yay! i've missed you too! I will make sure my buns are firmly back in place now that the exam is over and i'll try to snap some pics this weekend if there is anything interesting to take pictures of. Maybe even if there isn't.

And thanks Sara! I hope i aced it! keep your fingers crossed for me everyone :hihi:


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## Ben. (Mar 29, 2011)

I read through this thread a while ago, so I don't remember somethings:/

Do you dose ferts at all? or is it just light, substrate, root tabs?


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Hi Ben - no I don't dose ferts, both of these tanks have inert aquarium gravel, root tabs under the plants and low light roud:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Kara!!!!!! I am having withdrawals from not talking to you. I miss my google chat sessions with you, please come back computer. *sniff* So to catch up on what we would be iming back and forth:




:hihi:
:biggrin:
LOL
teehehehehehehe
hahahahahahaha
Roger, over.

And how is Mr. Betta Freckles doing? Any more signs of illness?


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

ok im getting AOL flashbacks now..... teee heeeeee

:icon_bigg
:icon_neut


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Hush, you. I'll interpret our smileys and laughter comments for you.

Sara: How are you doing, Kara?
Kara: I am going crazy studying for this genetic separation test.
Sara: Don't worry, you know this. You'll ace it.
Kara: I hope so, I've studied my buns off.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Sara - I miss you too and that is definitely how that smiley / laughing conversation went! :biggrin: Mr. Betta is doing well. I had planned to take pics this weekend but we were busy all day saturday and that included not getting home from a friend's birthday party until 4:30 am and therefore not getting out of bed on sunday until the late afternoon :tongue: so the rest of the day (other than going grocery shopping) was quite lazy  SO ANYWAY I'll try to be less AWOL this week 

NonC - hahaha AOL FLASHBACKS! totally, BUT I also simply find the little smiley buggers useful when conveying tone of voice <- i think i've mentioned that before


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

How is Mr. Betta doing, Kara? I have been missing our daily chat sessions with all that is going on. :biggrin: I think this journal needs updated with a least a picture of the handsome Mr. Betta Freckles.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Yes, my threads definitely need picture updating! I will try to take some this week, but I have a paper due weds again, so it might not be til weds or later. :tongue: 

But a quick update, Mr. Betta is, unfortunately, not looking so good  I think he might be constipated, but he could just be getting old. He sort of looks like he maybe might have a bulge in the belly area, so I am fasting him for a day or so and then i'll try feeding a pea. I've been doing water changes even though the parameters look ok (0 nitrIte & ammonia, low nitrAte (i forget the exact #), good pH). He's very pale and hanging out on the bottom and doing that thing bettas do when they get stressed and dropping some of his finnage. I'm hoping the pea helps. I also increased the temp slightly and turned down the photoperiod to increase the # of resting hours. We'll see what happens. keep your fingers crossed for me. 

The 10 is looking good, the heater went on the fritz and the tank was hot, the fish are fine because the air stone keeps the tank well oxygenated, but the crypts didn't appreciate it and i've had some die off. Well....it's either from the heat or lack of sunlight now that the back of the tank is covered.....hmmm......we'll see if they recover or keep dying off now that the heater has been turned off. But otherwise the tank is looking pretty lush, so i'm happy. And the moss continues to grow in in the 5g and i'm liking the look more and more each day. I think I need to get a strip light for it though because the edges aren't growing as well. Maybe i'll take a few of my tax return dollars that aren't need for other things and buy that :tongue:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO I just typed a long response and then hit "delete" to edit a typo and it sent me back a page!!! does anyone know why this happens sometimes? 

ANYWAY.......here we go again

I know i need to do some picture updates here for sure, I will try to get them this week, but it will probably have to wait until after wednesday because I have a paper due again and of course have procrastinated it and plan to be at school late working on it today and tomorrow. 

But a few updates while I have a moment, bad news first, Mr. Betta is unfortunately NOT doing that well. No signs of ich or fungus, he's just laying on the bottom a lot, very pale and doing that thing bettas do when they get stressed and dropping some of his finnage. Sad. I think he might maybe be constipated, he's sort of got a small bulge in the stomach area. So i'm fasting him a day or two and then i'll try feeding the little guy a pea. He's still eating which is a good sign, but he's clearly not feeling well. I've turned up the heat a tad for good measure and turned lowered the number of hours the lights are on to give him more resting time. I've been doing water changes even though the parameters look good (0 ammonia and nitrIte, low nitrAte (forget the exact #), pH right around 7.0 if I remember correctly.) It is certainly possible that he's just getting old too, but keep your fingers crossed for me that the pea helps and gets him back to normal! 

In the good news side of things, the tank itself is looking pretty good, moss continues to grow in and I'm liking it more each day. The only "problem" is that the moss on the ends isn't growing as fast, so i think i might take a couple of my few tax return dollars and either buy a strip light, or go the more thrifty route and just grab a clip or desk light because I think that 1 CFL is enough light for the tank, but raising it up a little via clip or desk light will help distribute the light more evenly. Input on this is more than welcome. 

The 10g is looking nice and lush and the fish and shrimp seem to be doing well. I did have a minor problem, the heater is on the fritz and the water was HOT yesterday, but the fish are all ok because the water is well oxygenated from my bubble wall, so that's good. The crypts are the only thing that all of a sudden are not looking so hot. I'm not sure if they didn't appreciate the heat or if they are suffering from the reduced light now that the back of the tank is covered. I will see if they start to bounce back in cooler water, if not, I might have to remove the black background permanently, or perhaps just let the crypts acclimate to less light. That might be the best option. 

Anyway, I'll try to get pics ASAP


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Oh no! Not Mr. Betta Freckles! Here is hoping he just needs a good potty.  Let us know how he does. How old is he now? 

You had crypt melt? I didn't think that was even possible for you.  Hopefully it was just the heater and things will rebound for you soon. How is the paper coming along?


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Hahahaha I hope so too!!! I'll keep you all posted :hihi: 

Let's see, I've had him about a year and a half, but he was definitely fully grown by the time I got him and he was a pet store Betta so I'm guessing he's about 2.5 yrs at least. Not SO old, but then again, not SO young for a pet store betta either i think. We'll see how the pea treatment goes :tongue:

Hahahahaha yes, crypt melt is possible for me, they just grow fast once they get going again :hihi: I'm hoping they just didn't enjoy the heat too, because the tank definitely looks better with the background! I think I'll leave it on no matter what and just let the crypts adapt to less light if that is part of the issue. There should be plenty of light in the tank for them even without the sunlight, but since they are finicky little buggers, I'm thinking the abrupt change in amount of light could have also made them sad :tongue: I'm hopeful about the rebound. 

Paper is done, turning it in at class in 20 minutes :biggrin:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Yay! I am glad your paper is done! I've missed you. :biggrin: (Not that you didn't find time to procrastinate, lol.) Here's hoping for another A. 

2.5 years for a pet store betta? That could be an old age thing.  But I am hoping it's just a puffed up fish. :hihi:

You'll probably see the crypts take off after this. Speaking of low light....I have an emersed crypt growing in a fish bowl in a corner of my back room. It got covered by paper and was still alive! Haha, they are tough aren't they? I need to move it into a tank soon. I'm going to get a pot so I can move it around. So basically, I am telling you that you'll be getting another half melted crypt from me in the future to rescue.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Hahahaha you know I'll always take Crypts :hihi: I love that it was growing under paper though, they're definitely hardy! I'm hoping mine bounce back  It looks like all of the plants each still have a few leaves, just fewer than they had a few weeks ago. So that bodes well for the bounce back roud:

I'm so glad the paper is done too! I didn't put as much work into this one, but here's hoping for a good grade anyway :hihi:

In sadder news, Mr. Betta is not doing well, I'm thinking it is old age. His belly isn't looking all that bloated, and he wouldn't eat his pea. Sigh. He had a good, pretty long life so I can't ask for too much more than that. Keep your fingers crossed anyway roud:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Poor Mr. Betta!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Kara, you've treated him to a great life and he is getting up there in age. He's like what 2.5/3 years by now? That's like old man age. And at least he was feeling better from the ich outbreak. And eating well until just recently. He might just be getting tired of living. Fingers crossed!

What is funny is I hadn't moved all the paper off the top yet. I got a couple pictures just to give you something to giggle at. It's not in super great condition, but it's still growing and so is the HC. LOL.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

HAHAHAHAHA i love it!!! that's awesome! definitely loving it, emersed HC looks really cool! i'm digging your little terrarium there :hihi:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Hahaha, I am glad you like it. It was actually George's bowl until I moved him to the critter keeper and then the 10 gallon. That crypt was actually taking up the whole bowl at the end of the summer last year and I tried to move most of it over to a tank and melted it. You got it half dead from me once. He'll be coming to meet his brother soon enough. LOL.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

hahahaha awesome! I do like it. And I wonder which crypts those are.......maybe the ones in the 10g!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

well my friends, sad news, Mr. Betta made it through the night but only barely, he was in really rough shape today so I decided the humane thing to do was euthanize him, it was pretty clear that he was not going to recover. RIP Mr. Betta Freckles, you will be missed, you were a good fishy and I think you had a good life. :icon_frow

So just in case he had some fungus or other disease I couldn't see, I "nuked" the tank with some meds. I'll do a few water changes over the weekend and then the tank will be ready for some new critters. I think I might do shrimpies for a while until I decide what else I want in there. Potentially a pygmy puffer, but the plants might not be dense enough, at least not yet. Potentially another betta. Or maybe a small schooling fish to mix it up. Thought I have schoolers in the other tanks, so a single fish in the 5 IS sort of something different :tongue: All in good time.

The 10g continues to do well. I think the crypts are going to be fine  I had PLANNED to get pictures tonight, but there was an issue with water in our basement....either from the washer overflowing the basin that drains into, or from a mysterious hose that comes out of the wall that we thought was to let air into the drain, but might actually be the drain hose for the AC unit and it had gotten moved so that the opening wasn't over the basin anymore. Either way, UGH. By the time we were done mopping up, the lights in the tanks were off and I was too frustrated anyway. 

Anyway, while I'm in the market for fish.....should i add anymore to this tank? It's got 6 WCMM and RCS. Room for more? leave well enough alone? thoughts? ideas? all welcome. 

So that's the long but pictureless update. Pics to come soon, I promise


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

RIP, Mr. Betta Freckles. You gave him a great life, Miss Kara. I woke up a while ago and started thinking about his fishyness and decided to finish the sequel I had been working on in his honor. I'll post it up this weekend in memorial just to help cheer you up. Such sad news, but I am glad you did the responsible thing and didn't prolong his suffering.

Puffer + shrimp = fat, happy puffer and shrimpless waters I think. 

Ugh on the water leak. I can sympathize. Hope you find out the cause soon.

You are asking the wrong person on fish stocking. I tend to overstock, so I won't tell you to get more fish even though I want to.


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

I'm very sorry for your loss Kara, Mr. Betta Freckles had a fantastic life, in a fantastic tank, with a fantastic owner. 

On the other note I agree with Sewing, Puffer + Shrimps = Fat Puffer and No Shrimps.

A dwarf puffer would be really cool  I was tempted to put one in my 5g but I don't have a snail tank. Although, could you get one of those small critter carriers and keep them in there and just do 90-100%water changes every so often?


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

sorry about the betta, kara.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Thank you all for the condolences, it means a lot to me, he was a good fish and he had a good long life  

Hahahaha yes, I know fat happy puffer would result if I put him in with shrimp, i meant to add that I would remove the shrimp to the 30g before adding the puffer if I went that route, but I would want the moss to grow out more before I added one, so I could raise up some shrimpies in the mean time  

Aqua - Do you mean use a kritter keeper for raising snails for a puffer? I bet you could. And they make pretty large ones these days, but I bet you could raise snails in one of the middle sized ones. Through an air powered filter in there, toss in some snails, some moss and an algae wafer every day and you should be rolling in snails in no time :hihi: 

Sara - I tend to slightly overstock too in order to fertilize my plants, I'm thinking 6 WCMM in a 10g is probably slightly understocked though, no? :tongue:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Kara - I think so. But like the hubby says - "don't listen to her, she'll get you into trouble."  Never gets easier loosing a fish, does it?

Oh and Aqua, I had some 3 gallon critter cages I kept fish in for a long time. Those things are fantastic.


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

very cool  I like the idea of a puffer


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

dwarf puffers are fine on a diet of bloodworms supplemented with snails maybe 2x a month


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Sara - No it doesn't get easier. But thanks for the input, i don't think you'll get me into trouble :hihi:

Aqua - you should go for it!  I think that's the direction i'm leaning right now roud:

Orchid - thanks for the input, that's good to know!


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

also, when i had my DPs i went to the local petco and asked for some pest snails. they gave me a bag for free each time. DPs have huge personalities, you wont miss the schoolers


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Awesome! Thanks again for the info Orchid, it's greatly appreciated! I'm thinking I will go with a DP if I can find a healthy source for one, haven't quite found a good fish store around here yet. I've been seing them at PetCo a lot recently, but it makes me nervous getting fish from PetCo, too many incidences with diseases from them. I want to let this tank grow in a bit more though because as I understand it, DPs are happiest with heavy vegetation, so I have some time to find a good source


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

Make sure you get a dwarf puffer. Instead of a green spotted puffer. The GSPs are sold everywhere as babies. Some places label them as dwarf, but there is a difference! A GSP will get eight inches and eventually need o be in full brackish. So please make sure you get a dwarf puffer!!

Let me know if you have any questions regarding dps. I did a lot of research on them


You can call me Bob 

"have no fear, help is here!"


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Oh that's good to know, thanks Bob! If i ended up with a green spotted, I'd do what i had to for it to be happy and healthy, or find someone who could if I wasn't capable, BUT I would rather end up with a true DP so I can go on keeping it in my 5g  So I'll make sure I do some good research to try and prevent that  

Is there a good way to spot the difference? (haha no pun intended :hihi 

And thanks again for the offer for help, I will be sure to pick your brain when I'm close to actually getting my little guy (or gal) roud:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

finally got a few pictures! I'm sorry some of them are blurry, didn't get the tripod out tonight :redface: Also not a lot of close-ups, I had just done a water change and there was a lot of gunk floating around :hihi: 

5g FTS - you can see that it's growing in quite well!  




































close-up of the back wall









and the moss cave filling in nicely!  


















New growth on the anubias! 









And the 10g, also filling in nicely IMHO 


















The less-lush-than-it-was crypt forest: 









I'll get more close-ups of everything some time this week when the water clears :biggrin:

Thanks for looking, enjoy, and as always, all questions, comments etc. are welcome! roud:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Gah! You and you anubias growers! I can't stand it. Why did it just sit there staring at me and it's putting a ton of growth out for you? I have the hardest time with 'easy' plants. :biggrin: Kara, I was honestly expecting the crypts to look bad. If you hadn't said anything about the melt, I would have never noticed. I am glad to see the E. Vesuvius is still growing so well for you! It is one of my favorite plants but I could never find a good spot in my tanks for me enough to want to keep it. By the way, the crypt in the very front right is the same as my crypt of sadness.  The moss is growing in pretty fast. Liking the moss wall now that it is feeling in and I am liking the columns much more moved to the one side like that. The 10 gallon looks very lush!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Sara, no the crypts don't look horrible, but if you compare this:









To this:









it's definitely more sparse. But i think they'll bounce back. 

I think the E. vesuvius is still adjusting, it's not dead, i've had some leaves die off but not too many, but it hasn't quite started giving me new growth yet. It's an unbelieveably cool plant so I'm hoping that it makes the transition to lower light and starts growing for me!!! :biggrin:

Yeah i'm loving the moss wall more each day, and while I really like the columns off to the side, unfortunately, they're not growing in very well  might have to pull them, but i'll give it a little more time.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

That e. vesuvius was more touchy than crypts for me. If I slightly brushed up against it, it seemed to melt leaves. It should be okay, it was in pretty low light when I sent it to you and underneath a layer of floaters. Oh, and so sorry about the duckweed in the endler bag. You can blame non-c for sending it to me. :hihi:

Maybe try again with a different moss? I noticed the moss tiles are growing in. One is peacock and the other was weeping. I bet either of those would work well.

They'll bounce back. Give them some extra root tabs. Oh, and let me know when you are running low and I'll make you some more. I only have 18 pounds of clay still from my crafting days.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

well that's good to hear about the e. vesuvius then, hopefully that means it will recover, acclimate and begin growing!  

Hahaha DUCKWEED! NOOOOOOOO!!!!! :hihi: 

yeah i'm thinking i could try a different moss, one of the tiles, i think weeping unfortunately, died off  but the peacock and flame are doing well. Maybe i'll try peacock in the columns instead. Maybe i'll just do 1 though. And the fissidens toupee refuses to stay in place so i think I might sew it down to the top of the cave  

i have plenty of root tabs for the moment, but since they don't go bad, if you ever feel like playing with clay feel free to send some my way :hihi:


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Kara, I think peacock would fill in better and not get quite as "stringy" PM me your addy and ill send some to you to get started with


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Yes, I would look at the vesuvius and it would pout, lol. I think it will. Don't be surprised if it looses all it's old leaves first.

Enjoy the madness. I just finished wiping off my arm from it. That stuff is like glue. No big deal on the weeping. It wasn't in great shape when I sent it to you, lol.

10-4 on the root tabs.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

chad, that's super generous, thanks!!!  I'll send you a PM when I'm done posting :hihi: 

hahaha yes, i'm very familiar with duckweed's sticking capabilities, I had it in my guppy / endler breeding project tank to help suck up excess ammonia :tongue:


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

Karackle said:


> Oh that's good to know, thanks Bob! If i ended up with a green spotted, I'd do what i had to for it to be happy and healthy, or find someone who could if I wasn't capable, BUT I would rather end up with a true DP so I can go on keeping it in my 5g  So I'll make sure I do some good research to try and prevent that
> 
> Is there a good way to spot the difference? (haha no pun intended :hihi
> 
> And thanks again for the offer for help, I will be sure to pick your brain when I'm close to actually getting my little guy (or gal) roud:


google images, you will see a definitely be able to tell the difference.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

hahaha don't know why I didn't think of that! :hihi: found this picture, a good reference I think


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

haha yeah.. thats a good pic. the colors are very different and the size


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

HAHA! There's just a little difference between the two! 

I love them though they look fantastic.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Orchid - yeah, I can definitely see the patterning difference, so I will be sure to look for that when I'm ready to stock one of the little buggers!  

Aqua - hahaha yes, just a slight difference! They're not mine though, just a picture I found that shows the difference pretty well!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

I got my fish / shrimp / hydrocotyle package form Sara today!!! WOOHOO!!! :bounce:

I had originally planned to put the shrimp in the 5g, but I checked the water parameters before starting the acclimation and they were all out of wack EEK! thank goodness i checked! There was a decent amount of ammonia in the tank but not nitrItes and low nitrAtes, i think I must have killed the beneficialy bacteria when i nuked the tank because when Mr. Betta started looking sick, first thing I did was check parameters and everything looked fine. The pH was really low too (turned yellow which means it the lowest on the card OR LOWER). So I am going to get this tank stabilized before I put any fauna in it. (and yes, I use API test kits, I realize they're not precise enough to use for scientific experiments and research, but they more than serve the purpose of telling me if something is out of whack.) I'm not sure what caused the low pH, could also be the meds I put in the tank, but I added a piece of coral to the filter to help buffer the pH. 

ANYWAY Sara sent a TON of Hydrocotyle:









I was able to split it into 3 sections and put a good amount in each tank! So here it is in the 5g:

















I think it would be cool if it used the column as an anchor to grow on

And in the 10g


















I will get more pics of this tank once the murk clears more, it's clearer than it was but then i stirred gunk up again planting the hydrocotyle :hihi: 

And I noticed that the albino bushy (bristle?) nose plecos in the 60g were out today AND I happened to have my camera handy, so I snapped a few shots :biggrin:

The long finned lady (she's out more often, but i never have the camera handy!) she under her favorite log arch:









and a cool shot, 2 of the cories were right behind her:









And the very shy short finned boy, I RARELY see him, this was a good day! :biggrin:


















enjoy and thanks for looking!


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Hahahaha, I love how you planted the hydrocotyle around things like the driftwood in the 30 and the columns in the 5. And that would be cool if you could get it to grow up the column like ivy! Glad you are happy, Kara. :bounce:

That is an awesome picture of the cories behind the pleco. They look like her body guards. She must be the president of the tank. :hihi: The male is cute. How long have you been trying to get pictures now? :biggrin:


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

wow those are great photos! What is the stocking up to nowadays? I've been wanting to get a BNP for quite some time now and you're really teasing me with that Long Fin lady  She's gorgeous!


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Looking good, Kara! I love those plecos. Maybe in a year or so you'll start finding some babies? :smile:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Sara - thanks! I thought wrapping the long lovely stems of hydrocotyle around things seemed like a good idea, we'll see what happens :hihi: And yes, thank you I am EXTREMELY happy! :biggrin: 

Also I'm pretty sure the Ms. is the queen of the tank  I thought that was a neat picture too! 

Aqua - Thanks! I actually got pretty lucky with the pics today, the fish were sitting still for me, even the guppies! It wasn't the best couple out of hundreds like it usually is :icon_lol: The plecos are in the 60g, the 5g currently has no inhabitants except possibly a snail or two, and the 10g has 6 WCMMs, RCS and now 1 very pregnant female guppy roud: And yes, the long fin is gorgeous and short fin is adorable 

LauraLee - Thank you! My tanks are finally looking lush again, I'm very happy! That would be pretty cool if we started finding babies in the 60g, I don't know where I'd put them but it would certainly be fun!!! :hihi:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Quick update - momma guppy seems to be doing well in the 10g, I don't think she's dropped her babies yet (if she has then she's just a FAT girl :hihi but she seems to be happy and certainly eating well! 

Everything else is looking good, I'll check the water parameters on the 5g when I get home tonight and get some pictures everything


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Great news! Have you noticed the vented opening yet? Hers is really apparent a few days before giving birth and she will hang at the top of the tank motionless. Around a day before she hides and gives birth.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

I have not noticed, but I wasn't looking for it either, I'll have to check! She was sitting pretty still today though, so maybe that means she's getting ready! :biggrin:


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

Woohoo! That's great news! I hope it's true!


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

You should definitely notice, lol. It's like a ramp or something. It's neat in a gross giving birth sort of way. :hihi: Good luck! I'd leave her with the fry for a few days and let her pick off the ones that aren't the strongest and give her a rest from that oversexed male guppy. He's awful. I had to separate them every couple months just to give her a break. It shouldn't be too awful since the other females are growing up now, though.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

And there are guppy babies in my 10g tank! :biggrin: I noticed she was looking much thinner and it took some searching, but I found the babies hanging out in the back corner behind all the DW  I'll definitely let mama hang out in the 10g for a little while away from the boy though to give her a break  

So that's the good news, the bad news is that the 5g is still all out of whack. The pH is still very low so I added more coral to the filter. The ammonia was also still relatively high, no nitrItes and still low nitrAtes which leads me to believe the tank isn't cycling so I pulled the sponge from the 10g and squeezed it into the 5g to try and jumpstart the cycle again, I'm hoping it works. The hydrocotyle is growing really well though so that should also help things out  

Incidentally the hydrotcotyle is doing really well in the 10g too. I had PLANNED to take pics tonight of both tanks but then I made both tanks murky when I pulled the sponge out of 1 and squeezed it into the other, oops! :redface: And then of course life, and fixing the drain under the sink got in the way of getting pics. Alas. I promise to get pictures by the weekend at the latest!


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

congrats on the babies though


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

thanks!


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Forget the bad news! You have babies! Yay!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

sewingalot said:


> Forget the bad news! You have babies! Yay!


Hahaha good point! And since nobody lives in there right now and the plants are doing fine, it's not exactly HORRIBLE news


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Finally got some pictures tonight!  Unfortunately, I couldn't find the babies, probably hiding in the moss, but I got some FTS and plants close-ups, enjoy!  

First up, 10g

FTS:









E. vesuvius is starting to throw out some new growth:


















Hydrocotyle and crypts:









hydrocotyle:









Fissidens (and unfortunately hair algae....gonna have to read up on how to get rid of that....as much as i love algae, i don't want it killing my fissidens!):









Shrimpie:









And the 5g

FTS:


















Hydrocotyle:









Enjoy and thanks for looking!!!


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Excel does wonders for hair algae, by the way. It is one of those algae I seemed to get when I'd do a massive water change on my low tech tanks. I got rid of it by not doing water changes, haha. Thanks for the pictures. Hopefully that hydrocotyle will help suck up the ammonia and get that tank cycled again for you! Told you the Vesuvius would start growing for you. You must have the midas touch of low tech worlds.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Excel huh? Good to know! And it did show up right after a large water change....so I guess that makes sense then.....will the e. vesuvius do ok with a dose of excel or is that one of the melt-prone from excel plants? 

Also, how would the bolbitis fair with excel in the 30g? I've got some hair algae in there too.....also cropped up after a major water change when I planted the new plants :tongue: 

I'm definitely hoping that between the hydrocotyle and the sponge squeeze from the 10g I'll have the 5g back up to par soon enough!  

speaking of the e. vesuvius, i can't believe how fast it shot up once it decided to start growing! I might have to try some in the 30g!


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Don't know if it melts it or not. Sorry. I don't remember using it with excel, but I could have. I did use excel with the bolbitis and don't recall it melting. Maybe remove the moss and treat it?

You should try it in the 30, that would look great!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

You know what, I realized I was thinking of Vals with the melting due to excel, I might pull some out and toss it in the 5g to save it in case it DOES melt, but i'll try it, that reminds me, I need to pick up some excel on my way home from lab 

And yes, I'd love to try it in the 30g....I just need to find a spot for it :hihi:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Just do what I do. Smush it in an area. :hihi: Lucky that you can just pick up excel on your way home. I have to drive 30 minutes to find decent stuff.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

hahahahaha well i've already got the hygro and the tall crypt arguing with each other to be seen, maybe i can put the e. vesuvius in front of the lace rock, that could look cool  we'll see. Maybe i'll put some in a few different places and get opinions on where it looks best :hihi: 

I never realized I was lucky to find excel so easily! I've always been able to find it at PetCo / PetSmart and my old LFS in NY had it too.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

True, you could do that. Actually, I like the thought of it in contrast with the lace rock. The closet PetSmart to me is a good hour away, lol. And sometimes, I've made the trip up there after calling to confirm it or prime was in stock and finding out they ran out right before I got there. LOL. You are lucky!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

wow, I guess I'm really lucky then! I had no idea! That's a total bummer about driving an hour to find they had sold out!!! 

I'm liking the idea of the vesuvius in the 30 in front of the lace rock....I suppose I should start discussing it in that thread though :hihi:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Haha, true. I get the journals confused even with those handy numbers in your subject field. Have you ever noticed that we'll tend to carry out a conversation in different journals too? :tongue:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

HAHAHAHA yes, I have noticed that. I enjoy the fact that we both know exactly which conversation we were referring to :hihi:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

So I checked the parameters in the 5g and still no cycle. pH is still really low (I don't have a low range pH kit so I don't know exactly) it's 6 or lower because there is NO greenish hue at all, it stays yellow. There's still ammonia (it's staying pretty stable, rising slightly, but not as much as I'd expect so I assume the plants are helping absorb some of it) but there is no nitrIte and the nitrAte has NOT increased so I can assume there is no cycle happening. 

I added some coral to the filter but it hasn't helped raise the pH yet. I'm thinking I might take a hammer to the coral and some shells and put them in the bag that holds the ceramic "bioballs" ..... the shells and coral are the shell/coral equivalent of sea glass, polished pretty smooth by the ocean, so I'm hoping making my own crushed coral will help with that. 

I'm thinking that perhaps the low pH and the tank not cycling are related. I'm going to do a large water change (because that never hurts) and keep trying to get the pH buffered up, once that is stable I plan to try squeezing out the filter sponges from both of the other tanks into the 5g, and maybe even cut off a piece of one of them to stick in the filter, or pilfer a few ceramic bioballs. 

Anyway, if anyone else has any other thoughts or suggestions I would really appreciate them.....


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

could you try running the 5g filter on the 10g tank? That's how I instantly cycled my 5g tank. Just run it on the fully cycled 10g for a few days and it'll pick up all the bacteria it'll need.

Also, is getting the pH really all that necessary?


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## BlazednSleepy (Aug 21, 2010)

Make sure the 10 gallon doesnt have any diseases first..Then you can stick the media in let it sit for a week.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Aqua and Blaze - Not a bad idea about running the 5g filter / transferring the media on to the 10g, that's definitely a good option, and I could do that while I work on getting the pH stabilized. 

Aqua - I'm not aiming for a "perfect" pH....just one that's not so low it would cause stress to my fish, one of my tanks runs at 6.4 the other at 7.4 and both are stable so I'm fine with both of them. The problem here is that the pH is 6 or under, I might pick up a low range pH kit so I can get a better idea of how low it really is. The kit I have only reads down to 6, but just because the tube is yellow like the 6.0 color marker, that doesn't mean the pH is 6.0, it could be much lower. I'm cautious of this because I had issues with my 20g a couple years ago (before i moved), fish were dying for no apparent reason, looked healthy, aside from being dead. I finally took the water in to my really knowledgeable local fish store and they tested the water and it was barely over 5! I'd been making the bone-head mistake of seeing yellow and thinking "oh, 6.0, lowish, but not too bad" .... little did I know. I'm a huge proponent of maintaining stable pH, not a "perfect" pH because I'm a firm believe the fewer things you add to the water the better, but that stable pH also has to be a healthy-fish-maintaining one roud: (sorry for rambling on....just figured I'd explain where I'm coming from )


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Here is my strange input, so bare with me a little, Kara.  Do 100% water change with a gravel vac to make sure none of the medication is lingering and killing off the cycle, remove all the plants and rinse them off. Then start over with trying to cycle. Those ich medications are the devil. And if you are feeling adventurous, put a fry or two in the tank to help cycle. They should be fine since they are small.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

It was actually a fungus med, but I do see your point. I think I'll do a gravel vac / 100% water change with a plant rinse, but I'll put some rinsed media in the 10g filter for a few days also to help things along. I've got moss coming in from Chad, so I figure that's a good time to pull things out and rinse them off because I'll be redoing the columns at that time anyway. 

I haven't seen any sign of the new fry unfortunately, they're either REALLY good at hiding, living in the filter (distinct possibility) or became WCMM snacks. I could pull 2 of the very young ones you sent me though Sara from the 30g and move them to the 5g. I purposely have a left a few dying leaves in the tank as an ammonia source though too, so I might keep it fishless for now, though I do hate seeing it without any inhabitants :tongue:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Hahaha, yummy snacks for the fish! I bet there are a few in that filter, though. I used to find them all the time.

Those guppies are tough, they are extraordinary not ordinary common guppies, mind you. If anything can cycle that tank, they will. Plus they are really tiny and if you see big issues, you could always move them back.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Hahaha yes, there are most likely some in the filter, I'll check when I get home  

And I guess using a couple guppies to cycle a tank i've seeded with media from another tank is a good idea, that way I can cut off the dying leaves when I pull the plants out of the tank to rinse them roud: Also I plan to start fresh with the columns, so any decaying moss in there will also be removed so the tank will likely need a fresh ammonia source and a couple little guppies would help with that but not raise the ammonia so fast that it would be a problem....so that's a good plan :biggrin:

Thanks for the input everyone, it's greatly appreciated! 

The plan: 

1) wash some filter media from the 5g and put it in the 10g to seed 

2) remove all vegetation from the tank and rinse it well

3) do a 100% water change with gravel vac

4) rinse the filter 

5) put the tank back together and let it run for a few days while the media seeds in the 10g so I can keep an eye on the pH

6) assuming the pH stabilizes, put the seeded media back into the 5g filter, add a couple young guppies as a light ammonia source to get the cycle up and running

any input would still be appreciated, especially if anyone sees any flaws in this plan roud: thanks!


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

Sounds like a good plan! 

Let us know how it goes


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

I think it is a good plan. Not everyone agrees with fish cycling, but smaller fish like a fry or too always worked well for me. The amount of ammonia was always minute amount that they never seemed to be bothered. Plus, I really think moving the filter on the 10 first will probably fix the issue like Aquastudent suggested.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Aqua - thanks! I will definitely keep everyone posted! :biggrin:

Sara - yeah, I am against fish cycling in the sense that I don't think any fish are "disposable" or that it's ok to dump a bunch of fish in and not tst water parameters and let them get ammonia poisoning. But I think "silent cycles" or using fish to start a cycle while keeping a close eye on ammonia levels to keep them as close to zero as possible is fine, and especially easy in planted tanks roud: 

I moved some media to the 10g tank and some to the 30g tank, when my moss arrives I'll do the 100% water change and plant rinsing. I don't think I need to move the whole filter over to the 10g, I think just the seeded media should do the trick


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

MY MOSS CAME!!! My boyfriend put it on our bed when he came home, and i didn't see it until I came up to bed. It's floating in the 5g  It looks great and Chad sent tons of it! 

I'm hoping to have time to make the new moss columns and add it to the cave tomorrow, but I have a feeling I might not have time til the weekend. But no matter what, YAY FOR PEACOCK MOSS! WOOHOO!!!! :bounce:


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

wow that's awesome! and peacock moss is the best 

Take photos of you putting together the columns. I'd love to see the progression of how you make them and especially before and after shots.


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

those columns sound interesting


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

aqua - I definitely will, but also if you check out post #130 I posted some pics of my moss projects the first time around  

NonC - thanks if, I tried them before, but they haven't done so well if you look at pics of the 5g, I hope they work this time because I think they'll look pretty cool! 

So the other part of this project, I think, is going to be to change the lighting. I'm either going to get a desk lamp with a single CFL to raise the light so it more evenly distributes (i'm currently using this light that i pilfered from my exoterra because my crestie passed away right around the time I was setting this tank back up, but it has no reflector so the light doesn't disperse to the sides and I think that's why the columns haven't really grown in and why the moss is much more sparse on the sides of the wall.


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

Yeah I remember when you first made them. I just want to be sure you post pictures so we can see how much they have filled out.

Are you changing the light on the 5g or the 10g? I've heard of people purchasing the clamp lights at walmart for around $10 and using CFL bulbs. I've heard lots of good things about that. You wouldn't have a top though and with a betta that can be risky and you'll be losing more water through evaporation so if you could get a clear glass or plastic top it's always better


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Aqua, I will definitely post pics of the new columns then! :hihi: 

I will be replacing the light on the 5g, the 10g has a full hood so it's fine. As for the 5g, I actually already have a glass canopy on it, so no worries there. I'm thinking a clip or desk lamp will be more than adequate for the 5g with 1 cfl, I think the issue currently is not the amount of light, but the spread of the light.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Kara, I think aqua is right we need mowr pictures of the setup. Oh, and I'll take two columns filled with algae, please. 

I wouldn't recommend the black clip on light from Walmart. Piece of junkyard material. It doesn't clip and bend well. Just an FYI. I have a useless one you are welcome to. LOL


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Hahahaha I will definitely post pictures of my progress! I am going to wait until this weekend and take the time I need to do do it right  

Sara, did you really want columns filled with algae, or did you mean moss? :hihi: Either way, I'd be happy to oblige  

Thank you for the input on the walmart clip-light, I will be sure not to get one of them then! roud: 

I took a few quick pictures of ALL THE MOSS! :hihi: I apologize for the blur, I didn't realize just how blurry they were until I got them onto the computer, i guess that's another disadvantage of the old camera....it really requires a tripod :tongue: so note to self.....use the old camera for good pictures when I'm taking time to take them, the new camera for quick pics :tongue: (see my 30g thread for the details on the camera battle )

ANYWAY pictures! 

MOSS! YAY!









Look at it all! :biggrin:









And for good measure, the 10g:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Holy carp! That's a lot of moss. I want some now, lol. I expect step by step pictures of the construction.


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

wow that is a lot of moss!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Hahaha yes, yes it is a lot of moss! 

So I had some time yesterday to redo the tank!  Of course, that includes a bunch of pictures and a step-by-step of the moss columns! So without further ado.....

My work station and "tools":








Sciessors, mesh, needle & thread, zip ties, spray bottle to prevent drying out

Moss items: 








moss cave (it's upside down), 2 columns for disassembly, peacock moss! 

So for this pair of columns, I did things a little differently, I chose to wrap the moss around the outside of the column. So first I had to assemble the column. I simply took a piece of mesh, rolled it up and then wove 2 zip ties up the length of it to keep it together:









close-up of one end:









next i cut the suction cup off of one of the old columns and attached it to one end of the new colum with a couple of zip ties:








i discovered with the other columns that suction cups are really effective as anchors in the substrate, and then they don't get in the way of moving the lid because they're not suctioned to the lid, which is how I originally had them, so this is the bottom of the column

Next I laid the moss over one side of the column and then used a needle and thread to weave in and out of the mesh and secure the moss to the column:









Then I flipped the column over, and repeated, and i wrapped a bit of the moss over top of the column and secured that in place too:









For the second column, I actually decided to take the moss out of the column I had removed the suction cup from, and secure it to the outside of the old column, which is the one that was growing better:








I did this because 1) i wanted to save some peacock moss for the pico project that I plan on starting soon (probably today) 2) I thought it was a shame to waste the moss that _was_ doing well, and 3) i thought it would be cool to have different columns

And then I added a decent amount peacock moss the moss cave too, and again used a needle and thread to secure it in place: 









On deck in the next post: breakdown and rebuild of the 5g


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Since the 5g has been having issues, I removed everything from the tank and removed all of the water

empty tank:









tanks stuff and supplies, including my trusty gravel vac that I used to give a really deep clean to the gravel:









10g, empty 5g, plants and moss in an empty critter carrier with the 5g's glass canopy on it to prevent drying out: 









After emptying the tank, I rinsed the gravel twice by pour water back in and sucking it back out, then I added decholorinated water, did one more water removal and soaked the plants in the decholorinated water to rinse them off:









Then I put it all back together while it was empty:


















And put the 10g light over it for a better view:


















And all filled up:


















So that's it for now!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Quick update, it's been ~24 hours and so far the pH is holding at 7.2! YAY! 

Also, I forgot to mention I thought for sure the hydrocotyle was all going to float off of the moss column when I filled the tank with water because I had just stuck it on there using the "stickiness" of the moss and the roots of the hydrocotyle to keep it in place, but it stayed when I filled! So we'll see what happens


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

wow very nice! Glad to see everything is going well so far. Do you have 2 co2 inlets diffusers (using an airstone as a difuser) going into the tank or is one of them an airstone (regular).

The columns are looking great!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Thanks Aqua! Actually those are both just air stones, I don't use CO2 in any of my tanks, I'm strictly a loooow tech kinda gal  roud:


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

very nice  does the extra aeration help out a lot?


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

In my experience, the air stones are very helpful, I have bubble walls or air stones in all of my tanks, if the air gets turned off or gets low because the air pump gets old or whatever, I do tend to notice an increase in algae and decrease in growth. I'm not sure if it's because the airbubbles are keeping the CO2 up to atmospheric levels as the plants use them up, or because of the increased circulation or because I just think they're helping but i'm only looking for problems when the pumps aren't working well and so I notice more problems at that time. But either way, they definitely don't hurt, the fish like to play in them and I like the way they look :biggrin: roud:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

I like it, Kara! Nice construction on the columns. And yay for the hydrocotyle sipersomethingornother staying! 

Edit: How do you keep the water from having creep with airstones? Or are you in a soft water area and don't have to worry about such a thing.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Thanks Sara!!!  Yeah I was excited that the hydroctyle stayed too! :biggrin:

I am not familiar with the term "creep" in relationship to airstones and water problems, but I haven't had any issues with anything so far.....what is creep though?


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

Looks good. I can't wait to see it all grown in!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Thanks Church! I can't wait either! :biggrin:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Karackle said:


> Thanks Sara!!!  Yeah I was excited that the hydroctyle stayed too! :biggrin:
> 
> I am not familiar with the term "creep" in relationship to airstones and water problems, but I haven't had any issues with anything so far.....what is creep though?


Ahem. I get to feel smart for once. :biggrin:

Creep is basically the evaporated minerals like calcium and magnesium that is left from evaporated water. I used to get it really bad under the hoods, surrounding walls and on the back of the aquarium. It's a pain to clean and if you leave it too long, it'll eventually etch your glass, ruin your walls and possibly corrode your fixtures. 

Good example: http://www.livingreefs.com/too-much-salt-creep-intake-t24275.html

Happens more frequently with saltwater tanks of course, but hard water or if you add the aquarium salt you'll see it too. 

roud:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

OOOOHHHH yes, I do get that, I've never heard that term before. It's not too much of an issue for me though, I guess because I keep my tanks pretty well topped off so I don't get it on the glass so much, and it's not so bad to scrape if off the hoods. I try to clean the hoods every couple months anyway to clear off the algae and crusty buildup so the tanks get more light and stuff doesn't start falling in :tongue: (the crusties don't build up all that quick, our water isn't super hard) roud:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Just a really quick update, pH is still stable (YAY!) so I think I will add a couple juvenile guppies in here to get the cycle started and then hopefully get some zebrafish in here soon so I can get them through QT so I can put them in the 30g for population control. Then I will decide what to do next with the 5g.


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

Scarlet Badis or RCS tank or betta!


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

chilli rasboras


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Thanks for the input Aqua and Orchid! I actually have Chili Rasboras in my 30g! LOVE THEM!  I've heard good things about Scarlet Badis but I don't have a very good LFS unfortunately, and shipping would be too $$ for 2 fish. Sigh. Betta is always an option, but I was also thinking of trying out a Dwarf Puffer. 

The BAD news is that I thought the pH had stabilized, but when I checked it yesterday, the test kit was back to yellow. I know I'm a little paranoid, but when you've had a bunch of fish die and you find out that the reason is that your tank's pH is around 5 but you were thinking "yeah it's 6 that's fine" and not factoring in that it could be LOWER than 6 just because the tube is yellow.....you get paranoid about pH :tongue: I haven't been able to find a low range test kit though. The other issue is that my tap water is abut 8.4 and that's a HUGE pH swing with water changes, which is actually my bigger concern. 

Anyway, i took a hammer to some pieces of coral and popped them in the filter, but the pH was still the same thing morning. I'm wondering if my pieces of coral are too old and have had much of their usefulness washed out of them by the sea water where I found them. Even though I really don't need 20lbs of crushed coral, I might pick up a bag because it's only like $8.00 and I know that will work as a good buffer....but I think I'll give my own crushed coral a little longer to leach some Ca.

Plants are still healthy though, so that's good.


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

a nice dwarf puffer would be my choice, i think. they have the most personality of those mentioned yet.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Yeah, I think it's high time I try one of the adorable little buggers! :hihi: 

I saw a full grown figure 8 puffer (labeled as such) and they DEFINITELY get too large for a 5g! They're still pretty cool, but not as teeny tiny cute as a DP! :biggrin:


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

Dps are supposed to have pretty good life spans too 


You can call me Bob


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

That's really cool! I like having fish with personalities that have decent lifespans, it makes them feel more like "pets".....that's not to say I don't love all of my fish, and how excited they get when I come up to the tank with food. But there's just something a little different about the Bettas and other similar fish  (like DPs from what I hear roud

Also, I bought a desk lamp to put over this tank last night, but when I put it together, it was much smaller than I thought and the adjustable arms were too short so I couldn't get it to sit the right way over the tank. GRRRR so I had to pack it back up to return it and I'll get another desk lamp I found at Target. I had liked the one I picked out because the bulb lies horizontally in the "shade" so I figured it would disperse the light a bit better, but the box was deceiving and when I opened it it was too small. SIGH! SO I will have to just get a regular desk lamp on a long arm from target so I can put it higher above the tank to allow the light to spread.


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

Darn! Stupid lights! Haha

I miss my dp really bad! He would come to the glass to see me. Eat out of my hand, and jump out of the water, to get his food. <3 rip marvin!


You can call me Bob


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

ugh, i know!!! SO frustrating!!! Now I have to go pick out a different desk lamp. :angryfire:

Awww RIP little marvin! Sounds like he was a lot of fun! I really want a DP!!! As soon as this tank is stable, that's what I think I'm going to get, I love bettas and tiny schooling fish, but I've had or had all of those and would like to try something different roud:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Aww, RIP marvin.  I vote for the dwarf puffer, too! I have plenty of pondsnails in my 10 and 15 gallon tanks to help you out.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

sewingalot said:


> I vote for the dwarf puffer, too! I have plenty of pondsnails in my 10 and 15 gallon tanks to help you out.


Hahahaha thanks! I think I have plenty of those myself.....but I suppose I could always use more for the little guy :hihi:


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

You new go get a dp. In marvins legacy. I don't have pond snails anymore  Marvin was a good guy! 


You can call me Bob


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

I've heard some great things about Dwarf Puffers 

When you do water changes you could always just put some TAP water in plastic milk jugs and let them sit for a day. That'll dechloronate them (you can still always add chemicals) and will allow all the dissolved gasses to escape. That may lower the pH before you add it to the tank. Let some water sit out overnight and see how it changes. I know my water is completely different a day after it comes out of the faucet.


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

i think i just talked myself into getting a DP for myself  now a tank to go with it too


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Orchid - I like it! We can both get DPs in Marvins legacy and honor! :biggrin: 

Aqua - Yeah, i've heard really good things about DPs too, I think that's what I'm going to get!  And that's a good idea about leaving the water overnight, I'll have to try it and see how it changes and then try using that water. Thanks for the suggestion! roud:


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

well, ill get one when i get money. so possibly never! haha. i need to devote some time and money to getting my 10 gallon finished ( all i really need is HC ) and then getting my 20 long setup and ready


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## Church (Sep 14, 2004)

I just finally got my first DP the other day! The lady and I have been wanting one for 4 years now, and the LFS finally got some. All I can say is that this is the most entertaining, cutest, hunting-est fish I've ever kept! I can watch him hunt snails all day long!

So I vote for a DP.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Orchid - fair enough! Then I will get one on Marvin's honor sooner, and you can get another one in his honor later roud:

Church - that's so great to hear! Congratulations on the newest member of your fishy family, that's so exciting! It definitely sounds like they're really fun little fish, I think that also solidifies my decision to go with the DP if I was having any doubts! :biggrin: hunting-est, that made me laugh out loud! :hihi: I love it!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

So I might have done a bad thing LOL I bought the 4 zebra danios (actually 2 "blue" and 2 "leopard") that I wanted to get for the 30g as population control and put them in the 5g (for QT) with the primed filter media from the 10g and i stole a few extra pieces of filter media from the 10g and put them in the 5g. I need the population control before the guppy population gets too out of control, and i need to cycle the 5g. On the plus side, I am going to be house-bound for the next 2 weeks studying for my qualifying exam, SO I figure keeping a close eye on the parameters in the 5g will give me plenty of good study breaks, so I'm not too worried about the ammonia levels getting too high. If I see any WQ related problems with the fish, I'll pop 'em in the 30g, otherwise, 2 week QT first. 

So in the never-ending quest for a new light......fail again. Picked up an incandescent 5g hood to put a CFL in because it was only about $6 more than the desk lamp I was looking at......i open it, and the freaking socket is all the way over to one side! I plugged it in JUST to see.....sure enough, one side of the tank is almost totally dark, the other one is lit up very nicely. 

Forget this quest, I'm getting a super simple desk lamp that is nice and tall and adjustable so I can find the optimal distance above the tank. Le sigh. Shoulda just done that first and been done with it. LOL

And the final update, I saw 2 baby guppies in the 10g today, so at least 2 of them have managed to survive. I'm gonna be swimming in guppies soon! :hihi: So that's exciting. 

I'll get pics of everything some time this weekend. roud:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

5g update:
I checked all of the parameters today, pH is still low, but there was no ammonia, no nitrIte and a little bit of nitrAte, so I think the seeded filter media (in conjunction with the well established filter media I pilfered) from the 10g are doing their job! I still have a few pieces of media seeding in the 30g as well that I will add in a couple of days. But to have no ammonia even after only one day with 4 zebrafish in a 5g tank is, in my opinion, pretty good! And the fish seem perfectly happy, the males are chasing the females around and they're all playing well together. These fish are SO active though that I had trouble getting pics, I tried though! 

Here is the best I could get without a flash LOL:









So I tried with the flash, still not great, but certainly better!

















I'll keep trying for more, and better pics 

10g update:
10g is still doing well, not a whole lot to report. 

The Hydrocotyle is growing like wildfire on the left side of the tank:









and I tried to get baby guppy pics, but this was the only successful one:








I've still only seen 2 at one time, so I'm not sure if it's just coincidence, or if there are only 2 that survived, but either way, they're very cute :hihi:

I'll try to get some new FTSs when I need a study break one evening soon roud:

enjoy and thanks for looking!


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Those are some good looking danios. If I could find some like that I'd probably buy more. Too bad I gave the neighbor girls my 20 gallon tank last week. I'm now itching to set up a quarantine tank for some new fish, lol. Glad to see the parameters are holding. Sounds like you are on your way to a future home for a dwarf puffer.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Thanks! Yeah they are pretty nice looking, I'm enjoying watching them when I need a momentary reprieve from studying :hihi: I'm pretty sure the two "blue" ones are female and the two "leopards" are male. I also think the males have set up territories, one inside the cave and one between the two columns :tongue: At the moment, the females are hanging out between the columns with that male and the other male is hanging out in his cave, but whenever a female swims near the cave he darts out to her, and sometimes he darts in and out of the cave like he's trying to tempt the ladies to his side. It's actually very fun and interesting to watch! :biggrin:

But yes, I too am glad that the parameters are holding so far, as long as the fish remain healthy during their stint in QT, the tank should be ready for the DP as soon as the QT is over! :bounce: 

But I won't get ahead of myself.....because I probably just jinxed it :hihi: let's hope I didn't! :help: 

Also, Sara, if you want some danios I'd be happy to try to breed them for you once they've finished in QT roud: I've never tried breeding them at home, but I was in charge of maintaining the colony when I worked in the Zfish lab, so I do know how to do it  Let me know, cuz then you wouldn't have to QT them!


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Aren't you supposed to be studying? Do I need to call Ian? :hihi: I honestly don't know how you are getting any studying done in your office with so many cute fish to look at.  Here's hoping the cycle stays.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Hahahaha you ninja'd me with my edit! I finished the 3rd paper, so I figured I'd check on TPT and then go tell him it's time to make dinner and get a movie! roud:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Just checked the parameters on the 5g (I just finished reading one paper so I figured checking on the 5g would be my break before starting the next one ) 

Anyway, the ammonia tube looked like maybe it sort of had a green tinge to it, somewhere between no ammonia and the 0.25 level so I did a small water change (~15-20%). Still no nitrIte but I actually think the nitrAte looked a little darker today. That could definitely just be my imagination and/or a better job of shaking the bottles though :hihi: 

Either way, the fish still appear happy and healthy and the cycle appears to be under way, so I'm not complaining roud: I'm hoping that not only being home for 2 weeks, but also being cooped up studying in the room that the tank is in will allow me to keep super close tabs on it so hopefully i'll have the tank back up to par again in no time! :thumbsup:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Good job on continuing to check the water parameters. roud: Glad to see you only have one more paper to read. After that, the really fun stuff happens. 

Edit: and for sure on the danios! Woo-hoo! How did you breed them in the lab? Curious.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Thanks! I've been trying to keep a close eye out because 4 danios is a lot of ammonia for an uncycled 5g, but I guess it's not fully uncycled given the parameters thus far roud: at least I hope that's the case  

And you got it, once they're done in QT (should be around the time I'm done with my exams ) I'll see about breeding them roud: As for the breeding in the lab, it's a lot to type out, I'll e-mail you the protocol


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

that would be a fun project! do danios school? or eat eggs? i might be interested. only if they wouldnt eat gbr eggs though


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Actually I can't find the good protocol, so I'll type out the steps later (once this bloody boring last paper is finished) for anyone interested  

Orchid, I've never had a large group of them in a community tank so I'm not sure how they do with schooling, but they do eat their own eggs and fry (which is why breeding them requires a couple extra steps) so I imagine they would be a problem for the GBRs too (in fact, I'm putting them in the 30g after QT to help control the guppy population, when I had guppies in my old 20g with a few zebra danios they definitely helped minimize the population explosion).


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I think this is my favorite of your tanks so far, kara. :thumbsup:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Thanks LauraLee!!!  That means a lot coming from you :biggrin:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Just to keep it all documented (and to keep anyone interested informed), I checked the water parameters again today and they're about the same as yesterday, the slightest tinge of green in the ammonia reading, no nitrIte and a little bit of nitrAte, so I'll do another small water change, but all in all, I am pleased (so far). The coral has as of yet done nothing to raise the pH, but the fish still seem happy so I'm not super concerned about that, I don't really want to spend $10 on 20lbs of aragonite sand when I only need a tiny bit, so for now, I will leave well enough alone and once the cycle has completed and ammonia and nitrIte are consistently 0 I will just do top-offs for a while to hopefully build up some hardness in the water. Not sure if that will work, but it sounded good in my head :hihi: 

Oh also, I remembered we had a second test kit so just to double check I did a second test of everything and the colors were indistinguishable between the two tubes roud:


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## 10gallonplanted (Oct 31, 2010)

Ive bred Danios! First you have to fatten them up with blood worms, and keep the females and the males seperated during this process then I put two females and a male into a 2.5 gal with cooler water for only one night and took them out. Then waited 4-5 days and i saw little danios swimming at the top of the water, fed them crushed flake and gave them to a friend. Theyre the first fish i ever bred, even before guppies.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

10gal - cool! I'll keep that in mind when I'm adapting my other protocol to home use  Glad it worked well for you! :biggrin:


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## 10gallonplanted (Oct 31, 2010)

Yeah theyre super easy to breed, you probably have some babies in your substrate for sure right now.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Yay for me. I'm getting fishies some time in the future. :hihi: How is the tank looking other than the cycle? Any issues with the plants are does everything seem to be turning the corner?


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

after sara gets her share, i call dibs


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

10gal - glad to hear they're just as easy (if not easier) to breed at home as they are in a lab!  Probably easier because they're happier in a planted tank roud:

Sara - you got it! I'll have some fishies for you some time when they get big enough (after I breed some :hihi The plants are also doing quite well, some of the anubias leaves are browning again, not sure why that is, but it only the older leaves, so they may just not have been able to ride out the recent turmoil in the tank as well as the younger leaves. 

Orchid - just as soon as I have some fishies to share, you're welcome to them too! :biggrin: 

as for the tank parameters and whatnot, they're still in the same holding pattern, the green on the ammonia was reading was low, but slightly darker than yesterday so I did a slightly bigger water change today to keep the fishies happy  I'll pop the last few pieces of filter media that have been seeding in the 30g into the tank tomorrow to hopefully help even more with the cycle roud:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Well I'm very pleased, I think my coral addition is finally taking effect because the pH was JUST not yellow today, and I am totally fine if it stays there because it at least gives me the peace of mind to know that the pH is NOT _under_ 6.0. I double checked like 3 times because i thought for sure i must have still had a drop of tap water in there or something, but nope, it's finally starting to raise just a touch. Yay. 

I also did not do a water change yesterday because I wanted to know what the ammonia would look like after one day of no change. It was definitely tinged green today, but I would say it was 0.25 or below. So I did a larger water change and I am going to add more seeded media from the 30g to the filter and do a sponge squeeze from the 10g (because it's right next to the 5g and the 30 is downstairs :tongue now that the pH is climbing a little, I have a feeling it will work better now and crank into high gear for me. I still haven't seen a sign of nitrIte but I consistently have some nitrAtes despite all the water changes, so hopefully that means there are some bacteria in there somewhere doing something right :hihi: 

I also finally got a desk lamp that I THINK is going to work out. 

I took a bunch of pictures when I couldn't sleep the other night and a couple today when I put the desk lamp in place, so I will be posting those later once I'm done studying for the day roud: so stay tuned!


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Have you even actually studied today, Kara? :hihi: Yay for climbing pH! Will you leave the coral in the filter or remove it later once things seem to be in balance again? Can't wait for the pictures of the new light. Maybe will be able to peer into those hidden corners.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Hahahaha yes, I did get some studying done  

I haven't gotten the angle quite right on the lamp I don't think, but I do think the tank is better lit in the dark places.  

And yes, I've very excited about the pH. I will probably leave the crushed coral in the filter, in my experience it's a good buffering agent but doesn't raise the pH overly much, so I'd rather leave it in than take it out and let the pH keep bouncing up and down if it goes down too far again and I need to put the CC back in etc. etc.


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## Rion (Dec 29, 2006)

I was curious about the hydrotyle, does it do fairly well in low light? I have some ideas for it later on down the road but I don't have any experience with it. Does it spread or grow upward more? I'd like to try it as a foreground to mid-ground plant and make it look like low-lying brush in the forest but I wasn't sure of it's growing patterns.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Rion - the hydrocotyle has been doing very well for me in the 10g (see below) and is doing pretty well in my 5 and 30g tanks as well (all low light). I wanted it to grow vertically so I planted the long strings of it that way, but if I am remembering correctly Sara said it will grow out sideways on the ground as well. I've noticed it sending out new growth sideways, so I imagine it would make a nice ground cover, you would just have to plant it differently than I did roud: 

So I couldn't sleep the other night and decided to get out of bed, turn on the lights in the tanks and snap some photos :hihi: I took a few more pictures today and yesterday of the 5g as well because I finally got the new lamp. Anyway, I'll start with the 10g 

FTS: 









Decided to try some angled shots:


















and some plant close-ups:



























And some fish pics from the 5g:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

And now some pictures of the 5g

Moss cave, can you see the new growth peeking out?









moss columns and hydrocotyle (and extra moss):









Angled shots:

















I think I decided angled shots don't look as good on this tank :hihi:

FTS before light change:









FTS after light change:

















I think the corners / moss wall are better lit, but the front of the moss column without the hydrocotyle on it is still sort of shadowed, but we'll see how it grows in  

New light:








it's just a simple desk lamp but it's nice and tall with a few different joints to work with. I currently have the light tilted slightly toward the back to give the moss wall some added light, and I was hoping to get more light on the front of the columns. We'll see how it goes roud:

Also, can we talk about how much I love the $1 section at Target? I've been using my test kits a lot recently to keep an eye on parameters in the 5g and was getting really sick of dealing with 4 separate boxes every time (I acquired the test kits over time so I don't have the deluxe multi-test kit thing) so I dug around the $1 area and I found this:








It's perfect! It's also a 3-pack! what am I going to do with the other 2? No idea. Probably use them to organize pens and pencils at my desk OR use them in the little shelves I put under the 30g for extra organization. 

I also found these which I love








I'm certain I said to myself "oh those would be perfect for _____" but I can't for the life of me remember what they would be perfect for! :icon_lol: so I'll have to find another use for them!


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

how do you like your clamp on light on your 5g? I need to find an alternative to my hood because my current lighting doesn't cover the corners of the tank well enough.

I love the pictures. Everything seems to be doing very well. It's also great that you've got the pH to cooperate a little.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Hey Aqua, I actually just set the light up yesterday evening, so I don't have TOO much to say about it yet, it _seems _to be spreading the light over the tank better than what I had, lighting the dark corners a bit better, but I can't say for certain whether it will make a difference in growth or anything. It's actually not a clamp on light though, it's a desk light: 








_light off_









_light on_

And thanks!!! Things do seem to be getting better, funny thing is though, the pH is back to being yellow today which is weird....the only thing i can think of is there was tap water in the caps for both tubes I used....or the pH hasn't stabilized yet. Fish and plants are still happy though so for now it's ok.


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

that is interesting about the pH. Do you have anything in the decorations that could be lowering the pH? I can't think of anything that'll be relatively unnoticeable that would be able to counteract all that coral.

That lighting setup looks great. I have dark corners right now and that's what I'm trying to fix. You seem to have figured it out  Where did you find that glass top? That's literally perfect!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

The only thing I can think of is that the coral isn't actually doing it's job because it's not aragonite sand that I bought, it's literally some pieces of coral I had that I took a hammer to and stuck in the filter LOL  :tongue: otherwise, I agree, I have no idea what would be bring down the pH.....all I have in there is moss, mesh, anubias, hydrocotyle, inert gravel and like 1 root tab. 

As for the light, yeah it's a desk lamp from Target and I like it so far!  The glass top is just a glass canopy, they're available at most pet stores roud:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

So I think I figured out the pH situation. I didn't do a water change yesterday and when I checked the pH today, it was very slightly green and I realized that last time I saw non-yellow in the pH test was the other time I skipped a day doing water change. So I think what's happening is the pH is hovering right around 6 but the tank volume is so small that doing a water change, which removes coral hardened water and replaces it with soft tap water, is enough to reduce the buffering capacity the tank has gained from the Ca leaching out of the coral, but if I skip a water change day, I get a readable pH level. So I don't think the problem is something else in the tank fighting against the CC bringing the pH down, I think the tank is just on the brink of 6.0, but the daily water changes with my soft tap water have not been allowing the Ca to build up in the tank to keep the water buffered when I do a water change. So, to try and let the Ca (and therefore buffering capacity increase), since the ammonia level didn't change much between yesterday and today, instead of doing a water change, I took some filter media from the 30g and put it in the 5g to get some more nitrifying bacteria in the tank, and I will check parameters again tomorrow roud:

I had a hard time putting that pH explanation in words, so let me know whether it made sense :hihi:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Pictures are looking better and better! I think the 5 gallon's lighting is greatly improved now! I can see the corners, yay!

Glad you figured out the pH issue (or think you have). That moss wall is looking fantastic!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Thanks Sara!!! I'm glad it's not just me imagining things that the new light looks better and the corners more well lit! :hihi: 

And thanks on the moss wall, I think the new lighting actually makes it so that the lushness of the moss wall is now visible. roud:

and thanks, I'm glad I may have figured out the pH issue too and it might really be on its way to stabilizing


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

new light is definately an improvement. its all shiney, sparkley bright now.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Thanks NonC! I'm glad it lets you all actually see the tank better!!!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

So I think that my pH hypothesis was correct because after another day of no water change the pH is definitely in the readable range. So I'm happy about that. Unfortunately, the ammonia was higher than I would have liked, it was only slightly, if at all, higher than yesterday, so I guess that means the biofilter is doing some work, but I was hoping for better by now. I think I'll squeeze the 30g filter sponges in here to help even more (i'm only a little impatient :hihi Anyway, I did a water change to keep the ammonia levels in check. 

Overall though, the fish are doing well, I think the pH issue is figured out and the ammonia hasn't had any MAJOR spikes, so I'm happy. roud: I'm also optimistic that if the fish haven't shown signs of disease yet with the stress of small amounts of ammonia and the varying pH, they likely won't.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Woo-hoo! I am so glad you found out the issue with the ph! Hahahaha, ph goes up, so does ammonia. Poor gal, you can't win. I am glad the fish are still doing well despite the fluctuations in parameters. That is the most important part to people like us.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Hahaha i'm glad I figured the pH thing out too, but it is DEFINITELY difficult to maintain the balance right now with the pH and ammonia, it's an interesting little ance I'm doing :hihi:

I'm definitely equally, or more, glad that the fish still seem to be doing well though, because you're right, that's the most important part to me, like I know it is for you! :biggrin: As long as they stay healthy for another few days, I'll be able to separate the males and females so the ladies can get nice and chubby with some eggs :biggrin:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

:angryfire:icon_mad::angryfire Ok team, I can NOT get this tank stabilized, I think the low pH is complicating / slowing down the cycling process, but the only way to raise the pH seems to be to not do a water change, but that means an increase in ammonia and sad fishies. Since it been nearly 2 weeks and the fish have shown no signs of disease despite what I imagine must be slightly stressful water conditions, I think I am going to move them over to the 10g tank. For the moment, I will move them all to that tank instead of moving any to the 30g yet. The reason for this is that there are only 7 fish in the 10g right now and significantly more in the 30g so in case they do end up showing signs of disease, not all of my fish will be at risk. If all goes well without disease for another few days (to get up to 2+ full weeks) then I will move either the males or the females to the 30g (so they can be separated for a little while to let the females build up some eggs so I can try breeding them roud 

If I do this, I can leave the 5g be for a little while and let the ammonia AND pH build up a little and hopefully get this guy cycled! 

The other option is to remove the moss column that has some old moss in it as well as the dying anubias leaves to try and reduce the ammonia being put into the tank. But I have a feeling that would not be a big enough reduction because i think I really need to give the tank quite a few days without water change to build up buffering capacity (Ca) before doing a water change and I fear the ammonia would build up too much to keep the fish happy.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

*10gallonplanted* You were right, I have babies in the tank!!! 

So I removed the adults the other day to try and get a handle on this cycle, and I went to check water parameters today and there are TONS of little babies swimming around!!!

I don't know what to do though because the ammonia is high! What is worse for itty bitty babies high ammonia or low pH? Does anyone know? (i'm going to go pose this question in the fish forum too). 

Should I try to siphon them out of the tank and put them in a mini setup? Anyone with ideas, they would be GREATLY appreciated!!! The ammonia is at like 1.0, which, given 0 water changes in like 4 days and 2 of those days 4 fish were still in the tank and there are some dying anubias leaves I left in there for cycling reasons when i took the fish out, isn't HORRIBLY high, BUT certainly higher than you want for happy fish. Does ammonia effect fish fry the same way it does adults? 

Again, any input would be HUGELY appreciated. 

Thanks friends!


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## Betta Maniac (Dec 3, 2010)

I don’t think ammonia should be an issue in a low pH tank, as it's all harmless ammonium. One of my Bookshelf tanks behaved just like this. Drove me nuts, but the fish never seemed to notice anything wrong. Eventually I managed to add a bit of coral and swap out the filter media with a really well-established tank and it finally stabilized. I think the low pH was inhibiting the bacteria.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Fantastic news, Kara! I don't want to help you with the water parameters, simply because I don't know. In fact, if you recall, you thought me about the basics of water chemistry.  So, I'd just be telling you what you already know. 

But wildly guessing here, I'd say ammonia very bad, low pH, not so bad. :hihi:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Betta Maniac - that's interesting to know, makes me definitely feel better, so I think with small water changes every other day I can keep the pH from dropping TOO low, while still removing some of the ammonia but be glad that it's in its less toxic ammonium form. It will be a lot easier to raise the fry if I can just keep them in the 5g because they should be able to find plenty of their own food in the moss roud:

Sara - thanks! I think i'll try to find the middle ground, not SUPER low pH, not SUPER high ammonia. At least fry are little and don't produce too much ammonia. 

So I removed the moss column that had dead moss in it from the previous set of columns (I put it in the 10g for now so the moss that IS alive will stay that way ) That is the column that had the hydrocotyle wrapped around it so I left that to float (and the babies almost immediately started hanging out in it) and I will also remove the few dying anubias leaves. Let's hope for the best! roud:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Keeps us updated. And you know we want pictures of these blurry dot babies soon, right?


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

I tried to take some pictures of the littler buggers, it was nearly impossible to get a good shot, but I did my best! Enjoy!  





































I tried to use my finger to get the camera to focus at the top of the water where they were swimming, it only sort of worked :tongue: the fry are those little black lines at the surface


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Hahaha Sara, I was working on editing those probably while you were posting and didn't even see your post, but clearly, yes, I knew you would want to see pictures! :biggrin:

And I'll definitely be posting updates! roud:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

That is terrific!!!!! Such cute little fry. I want to breed danios now. Those are cuter than guppy fry. So awesome.  Thanks for sharing, Kara!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

heeheehee they are cute aren't they? they're itty bitty teeny tiny, they are basically just a pair eyeballs with tails right now :tongue: They're probably no bigger than the "I" on your keyboard :hihi: They look like this --*:* in a few days they should look more like this ---*8* heeheehee


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

Kara I love that description! Soooo funny! 

That is so awesome that you have danio fry. It makes me want to breed fish in general!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

hahaha Aqua, it was the best way I could think to describe them, and it's pretty much true! :hihi: You should try breeding something, it's fun!  

Also, everyone, I think I have MORE babies today, either there are just more that came out of hiding, or a second batch of eggs has hatched because they are EVERYWHERE! I'll try to get better pictures at some point today roud:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

I have some nitrIte! WOOHOO!!!! Looks like the tank is FINALLY cycling for real! I'm thinking it's the increased pH that's finally helped! :biggrin: The nitrIte is low, but the color is definitely not just the blue of the solution added to the tube. It's not quite the purple of the 0.25 either, but there is SOME nitrIte which is great to see. I did a tiny water change yesterday to bring down the ammonia just a little, but even that small amount caused the pH to drop, so I am going to hold off on a water change until tomorrow since the ammonia is effectively neutralized by the low pH and the nitrIte is very low. But i'm definitely pleased! :biggrin:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Oh Happy Day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NitrItes finally are present. First babies and now nitrItes.  Let's hope that means the cycle is almost ready to become established! If you could see me, I'd do a happy dance for you. Instead you get this: :bounce:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

:bounce: is right!!!! though I wish I could see your happy dance in real life :hihi: Let's hope you are right on the "looks like this tank is ready to be established" idea!!! I really hope so!!! 

I'll report parameters just as soon as I finish writing the notes on this paper and before I get started on the next  A good in between break!  and then we can see what direction we're heading in....hopefully the right one!


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

I got the husband to record it just for you:










(I am hoping this is the beginning of the end of the funky tank parameters!)


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

HAHAHAHA LOVE the dance!!!! Thank you! that made me smile and I needed it! 

I hope this is the beginning of the end of the funky tank parameters too!!! 

Speaking of which.....

PARAMETER UPDATE - none of the nitrogen products have changes appreciably (if anything they are lower) since yesterday, but the pH is still low so I'm going to go ahead and not do a water change again today since there are still about 9 zillion happy looking babies in the tank. 

BABY UPDATE - as i just said there are still a bagillion babies swimming around. Well, most of them are still sort of hanging out at the top, many of them around the floating hydrocotyle, though I was staring at the tank earlier (study break) and saw some of them playing in the moss wall :hihi: At the moment I am just sort of letting them feed off of their yolk sacs and the infusoria that I am sure are growing in the moss. Since there are SO MANY of them, I'm going with a bit of a "survival of the fittest" thing at the moment, but when they start getting appreciably bigger I will start feeding them BBS. I might start feeding fry food a little before that too. 

That's all for now! I'll try to get pics tomorrow, otherwise definitely tuesday because by then my 2-day exam will be OVER! :bounce:


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

i alwasy fed my endlers fry flakes that i crushed... nothing special. rarely had deaths. so maybe you wouldnt have to find special food


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Thanks for the tip! That might work pretty well once they get older! At the moment they're a lot smaller than endler fry (and likely will be for a while) since they're not livebearer fry, but I think they'll do ok munching on tiny things in the moss for now anyway :hihi:


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

right, forgot they werent livebear-ed?


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Hahaha yeah, these guys are so small they make look just dropped guppy fry look like giant monsters! :hihi: 

Quick update before I get to bed......there are TONS of babies still in the tank, seem to be doing well and they are starting to swim throughout the water column, but they just look like little moving dots or pinpoints of light :hihi: roud:


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

That's great! I'm excited for more updates 

Do you know if Zebra and Leopard danios are able to breed? I thought they were different color variations of the same species but I am not sure. If they can any idea what they would look like? Gazelle danio? Lion danio? Elephant danio?

jk we all know it would be more like a striped leopard danio...wait isn't that a zebra danio? now I'm confused


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## Rion (Dec 29, 2006)

Actually many danios species can interbreed. 
http://www.nature.com/hdy/journal/v97/n3/fig_tab/6800867f1.html#figure-title

Karackle - crush up flake food into a super fine powder, the baby fry will likely recognize it as food soon and any uneaten food will support the dwindling insuforia population slightly. They might not be able to eat the entire flakes but will pick off what they can.


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## speedoflife (Jun 12, 2011)

AquaStudent said:


> That's great! I'm excited for more updates
> 
> Do you know if Zebra and Leopard danios are able to breed? I thought they were different color variations of the same species but I am not sure. If they can any idea what they would look like? Gazelle danio? Lion danio? Elephant danio?
> 
> jk we all know it would be more like a striped leopard danio...wait isn't that a zebra danio? now I'm confused


I bred a male longfin leopard danio to a female "standard" zebra danio and all of the children (40+) were/are longfin zebra danios.



Rion said:


> Karackle - crush up flake food into a super fine powder, the baby fry will likely recognize it as food soon and any uneaten food will support the dwindling insuforia population slightly. They might not be able to eat the entire flakes but will pick off what they can.


I raised my baby danios on nothing but crushed up flake food and they are as happy and healthy as can be.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Congrats on the fry!!! FTS!!FTS!!!


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Dash, dash, double dot.
I want to see more of those fry not much bigger than a spot.
So get out your white bowl or plate,
And show me what was simply fate.
Cause this future step-mom is excited,
Thinking about babies growing up makes me delighted.

Okay, so was that enough to get a FTS with the babies?


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

Sewing has some great rhymes
And I agree with her it's about time
for a full tank shot, with the dot-s.
We wanna see the little fish we call fry.
But for now I must say good-bye.

because I'm late for work


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Aqua - yes, the leopards, the blues, the zebras, even those neon danios can interbreed because they are actually all color morphs (natural and scientifically altered) of the same species _Danio rerio_. I'd love to see a gazelle one though! :hihi: 
THANKS FOR MY POEM!!! I love it! :biggrin:

Rion - thanks for the tip! I hadn't thought about feeding the infusoria, I'll do that! I also have a fry powder so I can use some of that as well. Cool article, I guess _Danio rerio_ have some super dominant genes!

SpeedofLife - yes, the stripes are a dominant trait and the long fins are actually semi-dominant, if you look closely, the tails probably have a sort of upside-down shark tail shape to them and aren't QUITE as long as the long-fins in the tail or fins.  (those were some of the tell-tale signs we would use when out-breeding our mutants) It's funny that the long-fins are dominant given that the wild fish have short fins! 

Chad - THANKS!!!  I know, I need to get some pics of the tank and the swimming dots! I spent the day I took off to recover from exams with my friend visiting from California yesterday, but I should have time tonight to take some pics! 

Sara - I LOVE MY POEM! THANKS! :-D I promise I will do my best to get shots of the dots tonight! roud: And maybe some FTS of all my tanks


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

yay! congrats on the fry
and if you dont post a pic
i think i will die, or atleast cry


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

i promise to get some
lest you think me loathsome
I'll get them tonight
once there is no light
coming in through the windows
as that best the tank shows


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

Karackle said:


> lest you think me loathsome


lol


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

hahaha glad you liked that NonC  

OK I got some pics! Or tried to 

First up, I scooped out some water into a cup and scooped a bunch of babies with it (this is only a fraction of all of them :hihi









You can juuuust see the 2 eyeballs in these next two 


















And some in the tank


















And I'm not sure if there are any visible babies in this one, but I thought this was a cool shot so i figured i'd post it  :









And some FT shots, I'm really sorry about how crappy they are.....I thought they were clearer than this, and not as over exposed, so I'll get some better ones soon, but for now:


















and FTS of the 10g:









And some close-ups:


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Wow Kara, everything is looking healthy. I love the contortion vals....and the java, and the fry, and the fissidens, and the pennywort, and the..... It all is looking really good!!


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

those really are some really healthy looking plants! I also can't believe how many fry there are! They are everywhere!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Thanks Chad and Aqua! I'm really happy with how these tanks are looking and am definitely excited about the fry! They ARE everywhere though!!! Like i said, all of those in the cup are just what came up when I scooped some water out of the tank!  

I do have a question about my Java Ferns though, for anyone who might know, you can see it in the 10g pictures, for some reason, the tips keep getting dark and "melty" but not actually melting OFF usually, and the rest of the leaf remains extremely healthy looking.....does anyone know what might cause this? (I'll try to do some research on deficiencies and what not, but I figured I might as well pose the question ) Thanks!


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

That moss Chad gave you is really making the tank look fabulous! How are the parameters doing? I am loving the java fern in the 10 and I love the overall arrangement of the tank. Great job.

But onto more important things. Yay!!!!!!!! for babies! :bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce: Thanks for the pictures of the lovely children. They look like little fishies now. 

Haha, poetry on Kara's journal. I love it. I need to get sick more often. I'm being spoiled rotten with words and pictures.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Looking fantastic, Kara!

Your tanks are really just blossoming for you, babies and everything, it's so great to see!! :smile:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Sara - Thanks!!! Yeah I'm really loving the moss, ALL of it!!! But I agree, the addition of the moss from Chad really seems to have pulled things together  I'm glad you liked the fish pics! The babies in the tank now are REALLY starting to look like fish, I'll try to get pics tonight or tomorrow!  And I was very excited about the poetry in my thread too :hihi:

Laura Lee - Thank you!!! I'm really pleased with how both of these tanks are growing in, very different kinds of tanks, but I'm really enjoying both of them!!! And I guess those fish in QT in the 5g couldn't have been too unhappy with the unstable parameters because look at all those babies!!! :biggrin:


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

I agree the moss looks great. Now who will I give this new batch to? Its ready AGAIN!!


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Me, Chad! :hihi: By the way, I forgot to mention to you that I love how you hid the airtube with hydrocotyle. Looks much better!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Hahahaha I was going to say you can send more of it to me, but I'll let Sara take it  And thanks Sara, I thought that the hydrocotyle would work pretty well there, and considering that's the last piece of blue airline tubing and I just never managed to remember to change it out, I thought that was a good fix 

So I need to take out the moss wall at some point and trim the center part of it and sew the the moss back on to the sides now that the new light is spreading light to the corners, only I can't really do anything right now because if I take the wall out, because I'm afraid I would get baby fish stuck behind the wall if I pulled it out to change it. But, that gives me time to make a decision, _should _I use the same XMas moss that's growing in the center and trim it and sew it to the sides, or should I use peacock moss (some from Chad, some from the moss tile Sara sent me that has grown in nicely) on the sides? I'm thinking it might look weird if I mix the mosses, but I'd love input.  

Babies are doing well, there seems to be fewer of them after the weekend away, but it's also possible they are just hiding in the moss wall more now that they are stronger swimmers and don't just need to sit at the top. They are also definitely starting to look like fish now, I'll have to get more pictures tonight. There was 1 especially that was bigger than the others and really looking like a fish. He's either better at finding infusoria, or he escaped the parental clean-up crew a day or two before I moved the parents out. 

I didn't get a chance to check the parameters last night (eek!) but i did do a water change before leaving on friday, and I also cut a piece of the polish pad out of the 30g tank and stuck it in the filter of the 5g to try and help keep the cycle going well. 

That's all for now, more updates (hopefully with pics) later when I get home and check the parameters roud:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Well I didn't get a chance to take pics last night, was dealing with a lighting issue in the 60g, but I did try to snap a few this morning and when I get a chance to check them if any are good I will post them later, otherwise I'll take more time and get some pics later. 

There are definitely fewer fish now, but the ones that are there are getting bigger and starting to look like fish, they're all different sizes too. Tank parameters are still out of whack, the pH is finally getting stable but the problem is now I need it to stay low to keep the ammonia from being a problem. UGH! I can't win. LOL So I did a decently sizable water change last night to try and bring down both the ammonia and the pH. I think I will do another one tonight (depending on how parameters look) and then probably just try to keep doing them every day or every other day. Maybe I will take the coral out of the filter to keep the pH low. I'm not sure. Advice is welcome.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

managed to get 2 sort of decent shots of fry this morning. I will try for more this evening. 

I put some of the fry in a glass container with a piece of white paper under it and one behind it. 

This pic is from above but it gives an idea of how different in size they are now:









and the clearest pic of a single fry I've ever gotten, and I'll keep trying for more:








he's got a full belly and turned slightly toward us so you can see the one eye facing us and then part of his other eye through his clear little head. :hihi: 

Enjoy!


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

That is the single most adorable fry picture I've seen in a while. I think it's splendid! Excellent picture, Kara!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

heeheehee thanks Sara! I thought he was pretty cute too  

I've got more coming tomorrow....i am sooooo sleepy right now, so I'll post them tomorrow. I just edited through at least 100 pictures and I managed to get a few decent ones!


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Haha, I usually have to take 50000 pictures to get a good shot or two. Can't wait for the pictures. Lucky! I can't believe I am going to say this, but I miss my insomnia. :hihi:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

hahahaha you went from one extreme to the other....we need to get you back to a normal number of hours asleep! 

Here are the promised pictures, these are the best shots I got out of about 9876543647 taken, so enjoy them!  

first, babies in a bowl, some of these really show the size differences:




































These next few don't show the babies very well, but they are in the tank and they do show the iridescent color that's starting to show up on some of the bigger ones, so I figured I'd post them even though the fry look mostly like blue blurs :hihi:









the 2 blue dots are the eyes being iridescent


















most of the iridescence is blue, but this one is orangey









decent close-up from a top angle:









decent close-up directly from the side (best pic yet I think):









enjoy!


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Typical of my sleep pattern, lol. What fantabulous pictures!!!!! I really am looking forward to these guys growing up. They are good looking fry. I like the orangey little fishy. He's really cute.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

I'm excited to watch these guys grow up too!  I hope they continue to do ok in my ridiculously not stable tank!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Well I thought I would give a quick update on the babies (sorry no pics tonight). They are doing really well so far and most of them are starting to look like real fishies! Some of them are clearly better at hunting the nano-organisms in the tank because they are significantly larger than some of the others. It's kind of neat to see. The pH has finally stabilized and I think that has let the tank finally get on it's way to cycling. There is ammonia and nitrItes definitely in the tank and the nitrAtes are on the rise too. Since the fish still seem to be happy, I'm going to mostly let the tank run its course, I'll probably do a small water change occasionally so as not to poison the fish, but otherwise, I'll let it do its thing for now  I will get pictures of the babies soon, but it probably won't be til next week because I'm heading to the beach for a long weekend


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Forget baby pictures, this is the best news ever!!!! I'm actually more excited about this post than seeing pictures.  :bounce: Fantastic to hear. Have a great trip!


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

glad the fishies are doing well and growing. have fun on at the beach!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

came home to bigger, happier fishies!!! But I was SO tired that i passed out almost as soon as we walked in the door, I will post parameters as soon as I check them when I get home. 

Thanks Sara! I'm super happy about it too, I hope that the parameters are still looking good when I check tonight, I'm assuming happy bigger babies is a good sign, but keep your fingers crossed for me anyway  and thanks!!! I did have a great trip!

NonC - thanks so much!!! I did! I got a LITTLE burned on my shoulders but otherwise had lots of fun, the water was warm and sun was out! :biggrin:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

I'm PUMPED to report, NO AMMONIA!!!! There are still nitrItes but the nitrAtes have also increased, so it shouldn't be too much longer before the nitrIte fixing bacteria multiply enough to reduce the nitrIte to zero also! :biggrin: :bounce: roud: YAY! 

most of the babies are REALLY looking like fish now too, I'll try to get pics tomorrow :biggrin: 

So I'm very happy! YAYAY!!!!


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Woo-hoo! Fantastic news, Kara! This is the best news of the tank yet. Glad to hear the end of the spike is near. Yay! :bounce: How's the other tank doing?


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Thanks Sara! I'm very excited. I'll get pictures this weekend of babies and all of my tanks. 

The 10g is doing well, I moved mama guppy back to the 30g, but her offspring are doing well in the 10g for now


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

glad to hear its almost over!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

thanks NonC! Me too!!!!


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Psst. Kara. It's the weekend. MOWR pictures were promised!!!


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

sewingalot said:


> Psst. Kara. It's the weekend. MOWR pictures were promised!!!


yea where are they? hmmmmmmm?


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

OH MAN! EPIC fail. this weekend got unexpectedly busy......I thought i had the whole weekend free, I roll out of bed on Sat and Ian tells me our 2 friends are already on their way over.....and they stayed not only all day but over night. And then I had to go into work for like 4 hours yesterday. Then put in some reading time on my cousin's book that just got released. And then to the puppy park. And I've also been working hard on some artwork for my cousin who requested art from her friends and fam with which to decorate her walls. 

So this will have to do for now and I'll try to get pics up this evening. 

please enjoy masterpiece #1 I created for my cousin in lieu of fish pics:


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

thats some nice art work kara


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

I love the girlie butterflies next to the dinosaur biting the gorilla.  Too adorable! Great work. And congrats again to your cousin and her book.


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

its evening.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

thank you for the compliments, Sara, that would be King Kong fighting a T-Rex actually. :hihi: At the end of her request from artwork from friends my cousin wrote "so yeah, I would love to wake up to pictures of rainbows, or butterflies, or T-Rex fighting King Kong, whatever you feel like drawing me" so naturally, I smushed it all into one! :icon_lol: 

Also, my apologies for epically failing AGAIN.....I took some pics late last night but forgot to bring my camera in with me today to post them. So keep an eye out for those later.


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

i knew what it was!

i need pics too though, i cant remember what tanks im commenting on without pics on the same page!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Hahaha thanks Orchid, glad you knew! 

There are pics on this page! At least there for me? LOL 

BUT you guys are going to hate me.......i packed the camera so I wouldn't forget it, but then I took it back out to take more pics and forgot it again!!! So I'll get those pics up tonight!!! 

Sorry for my epic failures as of late! :hihi:


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

Karackle said:


> BUT you guys are going to hate me.......i packed the camera so I wouldn't forget it, but then I took it back out to take more pics and forgot it again!!!


yea suuuurrrrrreeeeeeee mmmm hmmmm likely story.


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

good excuse. NOT! lies, all of them! i keep forgetting what journal im reading. i need to see pictures before i forget.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

ok here they are! And it's before midnight so I didn't lie this time when I said they'd be up tonight :hihi: 

None of the fish pics came out as well as I'd hoped, but here's the best I got:






















































And for good measure, some FTShots of both tanks

First, the 5g (by the way, please excuse the brown algae that sprouted up during the cycle):



























And the 10g:


















And some close-ups:




































Baby guppies:









Baby guppies + shrimp:









and a shrimple:




































Enjoy!


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Lookin nice Kara!! The moss tank is coming along good. i like the second tank too. Its filled out quite a bit since I remember it last. Awesomeness!!!


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

your quantity of pics makes up for your lack of timeliness.

both tanks are filling in nicely. love the moss wall.


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

That looks great! There's so much moss!

The fry are pretty epic too lol. Thanks for all the pictures


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Chad - thanks! Yeah the moss is growing in really well, it's probably time to trim the wall actually, but with the tank having JUST stabilized, and some of the fish still being pretty small, I'm afraid to upset the balance and/or get a fish stuck behind the wall when I take it out, so it's going to just have to keep getting unruly for now :hihi: And thanks on the 10g too, yeah that tank is filling in nicely, the hydrocotyle exploded when it first went in, but now it's doing less well, probably from lack of fertilizer....I guess that means I need to put more fish in this tank :hihi:

NonC - hahaha i was hoping to appease everyone with quantity, I'm glad it worked roud: And thanks! I'm really pleased with how well both of these tanks are filling in!  

Aqua - Thanks!!! Yes, there's a TON of moss! :icon_lol: Glad you enjoyed the pics and the fry  I can't believe how fast they grew!!!


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Those danios are growing up fast! I am glad to see they are doing so well for you, Kara. And look at the pretty tanks. You make low-tech look COOL! :hihi: Thanks for the awesome update. How is the e. swirly plant doing for you? Looks like it's actually growing for you.


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

too bad danios arent south american fish! if they were, i'd be calling dibs! haha


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Sara - thanks!!! E. swirly is growing QUITE well, I might actually have to pull some and see if I can get it to grow in my 30g.....though I might wait til I get a new light for that tank (which is on the "to buy" list when I get my paycheck on Friday....I've had it with not being able to grow things on the ends of the tank!!! I've always wanted to get some plants to grow up behind the rock there, and darn it, it's about time I get to do that! and that means shelling out for the proper sized light, so that's what I'm going to do!) <-- but that's a digression from this thread. :hihi:

And yes, I can't believe how quickly they grew into little fishies!!! I think I would have had more luck raising them if I'd set aside a few planted 5 or 10g tanks for fry raising back when I worked in the fish lab!!! :icon_lol:

Orchid - thanks! If she still wants them, Sara has dibs on these babies anyway (or however many of them she wants) but if you set up a tank that would allow for them, let me know and I'll see if I can get them to breed again


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Too bad that 30 gallon isn't 24" I have a spare light I could send you. :hihi: I can't wait to see what you do with the 30 gallon. The E. swirly pants is one of my favorite plants. I am glad it's doing so well! Especially since it's so melty in the beginning.

Bob - hands off my fry. LOL. Nah, if you wanted some I'd share. Speaking of which, I haven't forgotten about sending you snails, Kara. I am waiting for cooler temperatures so you don't have escargot. :hihi:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

hahahaha too bad indeed! 24" is the length of the _bulb_ I have now, the _fixture_ is 30" and I was told the bulb was too so I figured 3" at each end isn't so bad, well guess what? 6" IS problematic! I never should have kept it, I should have said I didn't want it and shelled out the extra then for the correct light. But I didn't. So I too will have an extra 24" strip light hanging around soon enough! :hihi: 

Hahaha Sara you can have as many of the babies as you want, you can have 2 or you can have all of them. Whatever you like  I can always breed more if anyone else wants them, now that I know how easy it is AND the tank is stable


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

i dont want any.. i said too bad they arent south american..


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

You could teach them Spanish and they would get along just fine with your South American fish, Bob. 

What's hysterical is the fact I know I've offered you that light twice now and that your tank isn't 24". Yet, I keep offering. You can use the 24" light for an emersed setup. I'm planning on doing that with mine soon enough. 

Oh, and I'll take 50 fry please. I like them with cheeseburgers (referenced for our pal, Bob). Speaking of cheeseburgers, I haven't ate any red meat since I watched that movie Food Inc (thanks, non-c )


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Hahaha well i think only about 8 survived my "don't feed them see who survives by eating infusoria in the moss" method, but you're welcome to all 8 of them! :biggrin: A few of them are much smaller than the others, there are 5 big ones and I _think_ 3 little ones, i didn't see all 3 last time I looked, but I definitely saw at least one of the little guys. But anyway, if you want them all, they're yours!  

Hahaha Bob, I know you said you didn't want them for your South American biotope, but if you ever DO want some Zebrafish, you just let me know roud: 

Sara, I was actually thinking that an emersed setup is EXACTLY what I'll do with the 24" light. Either that or Set something up so that I can run the 24" light over the 5 and 10g together, and use the 10g light for emersed :hihi:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

I like that we think alike. It means I'm smart, too. :hihi:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

heeheehee we're both totally super smart


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

THE 5g is FINALLY really and truly CYCLED! :bounce: 

Look, NO ammonia, NO nitrItes, and even the nitrAte has dropped significantly since I last tested, which I'll take to mean the plants are nice and healthy and soaking it up! :biggrin:








and the pH is staying pretty consistant at 7.2

And because that picture makes the nitrAte tube look much redder than it was (reading between 5-10) this one shows the color a bit better:









and so you know which tank i'm talking about:









So I noticed that the black hinge actually casts a shadow in the tank, AND the back piece of plastic that helps prevent evaporation is long gone :tongue: So I'm thinking of DIYing a new top, any suggestions? Simple piece of plexi?


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## jayjigga (Mar 22, 2011)

My only advice about the plexi is that it will bow eventually. Doesn't matter how thick, it will eventually bow. If you have access to eggcrate (light diffuser), you can silicone some as frame directly to the plexi, around your lighting to make a "backbone" for the plexi so it doesn't bow. I've don't that with decent success (at least a year, and still holding it's shape).


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

thanks for the input on that jay, I'm not sure exactly how, or really _where_ you mean for the eggcrate to be attached, I have a desk lamp for light, so it's not putting any pressure on the top. Do you have a picture of your setup by any chance so I could get an idea of the layout that you mean? Eggcrate is a great idea for not making the same shadow as the black hinge piece, I would make a top just out of that, but it won't prevent evaporation that way, which, in a 5g tank with an airstone, is something that is important for me


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

If you go acrylic, it does get hot and tends to bow over time. However, I will tell you my little secret I did to combat this. Get a thicker acrylic to start with at HD or Lowes. Then , I drilled a few _small _holes in the very center of the in the shape of a circle of my acrylic lid to help the heat escape from this area as it seemed the heat from the light was the problem. Second, I flipped the lid every month over.  Small bowing, but nothing really noticeable. Having your light like that will definitely be an advantage.

And FANTASTIC news on the cycling of the tank. By the way, the tank looks fantastic AND I found out there is another moss that looks like fissidens but isn't. So maybe that explains the difference in the two.

P.S. I love the pretty colors of the test tubes, don't you?


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Sara - thanks for that suggestion too! Good idea for a fix on the bowing, vent holes AND flipping it, smart. That reminds me, it's time to flip the mattress :hihi: And THANK YOU! on the cycling, I'm SO happy!!! As for the fissidens, i'm not sure which two you mean....the one growing in my 10g and my 30g? Or the "toupee" of it i had in this tank that didn't make it through the disaster? 

And YES i love the pretty colors, especially when ammonia is yellow and nitrIte is is blue


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

Karackle said:


> Hahaha well i think only about 8 survived my "don't feed them see who survives by eating infusoria in the moss" method, but you're welcome to all 8 of them! :biggrin: A few of them are much smaller than the others, there are 5 big ones and I _think_ 3 little ones, i didn't see all 3 last time I looked, but I definitely saw at least one of the little guys. But anyway, if you want them all, they're yours!
> 
> Hahaha Bob, I know you said you didn't want them for your South American biotope, but if you ever DO want some Zebrafish, you just let me know roud:
> 
> Sara, I was actually thinking that an emersed setup is EXACTLY what I'll do with the 24" light. Either that or Set something up so that I can run the 24" light over the 5 and 10g together, and use the 10g light for emersed :hihi:


i will keep that in mind!



Karackle said:


> Sara - thanks for that suggestion too! Good idea for a fix on the bowing, vent holes AND flipping it, smart. That reminds me, it's time to flip the mattress :hihi: And THANK YOU! on the cycling, I'm SO happy!!! As for the fissidens, i'm not sure which two you mean....the one growing in my 10g and my 30g? Or the "toupee" of it i had in this tank that didn't make it through the disaster?
> 
> And YES i love the pretty colors, especially when ammonia is yellow and nitrIte is is blue


i know! i love the colors. congrats on getting it cycled, makes the colors look better


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

It's unfortunate that some of the greens and purples indicating you have ammonia and nitrIte are pretty colors given that they mean bad things! When I was trying to get the tank cycled I'd check the parameters and think "ooo pretty purple (or green) color! OOOH....bad news" LOL


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

i like the purples, lol!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

I know! they're really pretty! Which is why it's too bad they mean OH NO! NITRITES!


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

i know! its like " pretty...oh darn "


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

HAHAHA exactly!


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

i feel ya!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Got a few updated pictures from both tanks  

5g first:

Came home to a bit of on-the-glass algae:









But I just used my mag float to clean it off :


















Moss mania!



























Semi-sort-of-ok fish pics:


















New anubias leaves:









Anubias and flame moss:










10g next

Some FTS:



























And some close-ups:



























The E. vesuvius is getting a bit unruly for this tank, it might all be moved to the 30g but i have to decide what to replace it with. We will see.

As always, questions, comments, suggestions, critiques are more than welcome! roud:


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Wow Kara! You got some moss madness in the 5g going on now!! Good job! I really like the java in the 10g too. Kinda sucks there is that fine line between looking awesome and being too dominating huh? I got some petites that might work good there. The crypts look great too. Is that fissidens behind the fern? I think this tank is super cool


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Kara, would you like some moss with that tank? :hihi: It looks like a cat coughed up a moss ball in your tank. Looks awesome! I am really loving the 10 gallon, it looks so much larger than that, I am surprised. I agree with you on mr. squiggly plant being moved over.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Thanks guys! I'm loving the 10g too, and yes there's a bit TOO much moss in the 5g, but I agree Chad, there is definitely a very fine line between a tank looking overgrown and looking nice and lush. Nana petite might look cool in the 10g and/or the 5g, I would have to find some space for it in the 10g, possibly by removing some of the java fern, but it could definitely look cool. And yes, that is fissidens behind that large java leaf on the wood, I need to thin out the Java moss some I think. And I need to H2O2 dose the tank, there is some hair moss on the fissidens. 

Hahahaha Sara, yes, the moss is definitely overgrown! I'm afraid to cut it though and upset the tank balance :hihi: But it definitely needs to be dealt with in one way or another. Probably rescaped using the moss that's grown in so nicely  And thanks for the compliment on the size  And yeah, squiggles needs a taller home  

Also, the hydrocotyle, after an initial huge burst in growth, has thinned out a lot. I think that i just don't have enough fertilizer from fish to keep up with the fast growth. I'll let it sit for a bit longer and see if it acclimates and grows a bit more slowly and settles in.


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## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

Tanks look very nice


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Thanks 2in10!


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## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

I saw you were going to use H2O2 to kill off algae?


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

2in10 - yes you can use H2O2 or Excel to kill algae by directly squirting it onto the problem areas


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## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

Karackle said:


> 2in10 - yes you can use H2O2 or Excel to kill algae by directly squirting it onto the problem areas


Thanks I read up on that after I asked the question. I have used Excel successfully on BBA, but had not heard of it being successful on GHA. I have GHA scattered throughout the tank and am tired of pulling in out but no getting it off of the plants completely. I will try the combo technique since I am dosing with Excel for now already.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Sounds like a good plan 2in10! I hope it works for you


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

Geez Louise all that moss!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Hahaha NonC I know! It's a mossplosion in there!


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

this moss looks great! all the moss in my 5g is finally growing, since the BGA isnt there


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Thanks so much Orchidbob! Glad to hear your moss is doing well too roud:


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

yep! if you want it you can have it... lol! it came with my sakuras. and i dont really know what to do with it.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

thanks for the offer, that's really generous of you! But I think, at least for the moment, I've got all the moss I can handle :hihi:


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

Karackle said:


> thanks for the offer, that's really generous of you! But I think, at least for the moment, I've got all the moss I can handle :hihi:


darn! i need a scuker- err i mean friend-- to take this moss! anyone want to trade?


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

hahaha, why don't you use it?


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

i cant figure out where to use it.. haha


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

new tank? little 2.5g moss tank maybe? :hihi:


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

i dont think so! i dont have money for one. i have to concentrate on the ones i have. especially with school starting. i havent even had a chance to redo the 5.5! i need to do it maybe tomorrow. the moss is growing good though. someone should take me up on the offer!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

well I'm sure you'll figure out something to do with it or someone to buy it roud:


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

let it be let it beeee


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

nonconductive said:


> let it be let it beeee


HAHAHAHAHAHA......that is all...oh, and I love that song!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Well as usual the day got away from me and it's late, but I did promise pics and i have them, so I'm just going to post them! 

10g:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

and the 5g moss mania (desperately needs a haircut):









































































so how about it folks, enough pics to satisfy for the moment? :biggrin:

ENJOY!!!


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## zachary908 (Feb 12, 2011)

Looking good, is that a Vesuvius sword in the back right? I like it!


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## zachary908 (Feb 12, 2011)

Holy moss batman! That is awesome!


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

look at all that moss! looks good!


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

That's amazing! The moss looks so great! I could use a haircut too...


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

dang all that moss!


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## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

Nice looking jungles.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

thanks guys!!! Yes there is certainly a LOT of moss! :hihi: I think I might have enough to make a second moss cave, think I should try it? Or maybe I'll try a moss carpet. Oh the possibilities! :biggrin: 

*Zachary* - if you are referring to the spiral leafed plant in the 10g, yes that is E. vesuvius. It's a bit too tall for this tank though so I think I'll move it to the 30g when I finally get around to rescaping that tank and try something else in that spot in here. 

Unfortunately, the super cool hydrocotyle that initially did really well has petered out. I think it grew too fast for its own good and used up the nutrients. So I need so I'm trying to think of something tall (relatively) for that back corner as well, although the needle leaf java fern has filled in on the log quite nicely recently, so perhaps i'll just let that fill in the top area with plants.

Also, anyone need / want some java fern? I've got some extra that's creeping its way across the front of the 10g and obstructing the view from the front of the tank. If nobody wants it I'll cut it and move it within the tank, but I figured I'd offer first  (if anyone wants moss I clearly have plenty of that as well :hihi


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

i could possibly use some java fern. will it grow in a really lowlight situation? like a walstad type thing? wouldnt be crazy low.


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## zachary908 (Feb 12, 2011)

orchidman said:


> i could possibly use some java fern. will it grow in a really lowlight situation? like a walstad type thing? wouldnt be crazy low.


Bob, I'm pretty sure Java fern will grow no matter what.


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

cool!


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## SkyGrl (Jan 7, 2010)

do you miss sewingalot?...... WWWAAAHHHHHHHHHH I MISS HER!!! 

Amy


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

HI there lady lurker!!! I do miss her very much 

Orchidbob - Java fern grows in very low light because all of my tanks are very low light  I will be sure to let you know if I have some left over after all of the rescaping roud:


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

alright let me know!

yes i miss sara


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

SkyGrl said:


> do you miss sewingalot?...... WWWAAAHHHHHHHHHH I MISS HER!!!
> 
> Amy


I love you girls.  Kara, did the moss puke in your tank or something. That is amazing how well it grows for you. How are my babies doing? :biggrin:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Sara! Good to see you on here!!! we love you too!!!!! :biggrin:

Yes, apparently the moss EXPLODED!!! :hihi: Your babies are doing VERY well, and the runt is catching up in size  :bounce:


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Holy Boss Matman, that is a lotta moss but it looks nice and it grows no matter what. I just tried some Peacock moss and I really like the delicate little plant but it's growing like crazy and it's not like other plants when you trim it doesn't float to the surface, so a tank with several different types could be a pain to keep seperate, nice job!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Well most of my moss is attached to items that can removed from the tank, so that makes the trimming easier roud:

or rather, it will when I finally take the plunge and do some trimming! :hihi:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

got a few new shots of the 10g and the 5g, I took more but only a couple came out, the 5g shots are terrible, but these were the best of the bunch. 

MOSS MANIA (I really need to trim this)


















and one pretty good one of the 10g, this is the only tank that isn't COMPLETELY overgrown, but it could still use some TLC :tongue:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Loving the 10 gallon! And Kara, would you like some moss for your 5 gallon? I think it's looking a little sparse in there. :hihi: Seriously, are you feeding it steroids or something? You can't even see the cave, lol. Looks cool, though.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

thanks Sara!!! And yes, I think I could use a little more moss :hihi: 

I don't do anything to it, it's magic moss! It does seriously need to be trimmed though because it's starting to shade itself out in some areas :redface:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

DISASTER!!! I accidentally overdosed this tank with H2O2 trying to get rid of the major hair algae infestation and I killed all of my fish  

I feel just HORRIBLE for not doing better research, but I a) I didn't think I had put that much in and b) I thought it was a pretty safe treatment from what i remembered about researching it in the past. I know i didn't do it on purpose, but i still feel really bad. 

Anyway, the next step is to leave the tank uninhabited until I get rid of the hair algae because without fish i can treat more aggressively. I had some moss that I put in a nano tank that got completely taken over by the same stuff and I got rid of it by pulling out the whole clump, putting it in a container and swirling it around in a ~50% H2O2 solution and popping it back in the pico tank. 2 days later all that was left of the algae was so much brown gunk on the bottom and so far it hasn't returned. So i'm hoping to achieve something similar in the 10g. 

Once the 10g is set, I'll move the zebrafish from the 5 into the 10g, give the moss a much needed trim, and then decide what to put in the 5g. Possibly a pea puffer, but I'm a little afraid i don't have quite enough time for their care.


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

Condolences on the peroxide bomb. 
I've sadly cooked a few otto and seriously melted a few plants along the way.


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

kara, don't feel bad. you're not the only one.


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

I'm sorry to hear that Kara. We know you didn't do it on purpose and the FishKeeping gods will forgive you.

That brown gunk is almost as annoying as the green hair algae. I personally can't seem to get it out of my MQ carpet. I'm sure you're much better at treating it and dealing with it though.


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

aww kara! im so sorry!  dont feel bad though, everybody has those days and things happen


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Thanks for all the kind words everyone! I really appreciate it!

Though I do still feel bad about killing the fish, it definitely makes me feel better to know i'm far from alone on this one!!! 

Also, I'll try to get some before and after pics soon roud: (as soon as there is an "after" to take pics of post-algae and minor rescape)


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

Congrats on breaking the 4k mark in posts!

Not to be inconsiderate but a good thing about this is you can redo your stocking if you have any goals that may have changed since you last stocked the tank.


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## green_valley (Sep 14, 2011)

MOSS MANIA indeed............awesomeroud:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Aqua - thanks! I didn't even notice I had that many posts!  and don't worry i don't take your comment as inconsiderate, I try to look at the silver lining of things too roud:

GreenValley - THANKS!


In other tank news, I pulled out the DW, trimmed off a BUNCH of java fern, I set some of it aside to send to Sewingalot and I tied the rest to various places on the DW. I pulled out the moss column that I had put in here, I took off the healthy moss and set that aside to send to Sewingalot as well. (don't worry Sara, all of it was dunked in H2O2 to kill the hair algae, but this time I did OUTSIDE of the tank ) I also removed the E. vesuvius which is destined for the 30g. I drained the tank way down, dumped more H2O2 on the plants, filled the tank up then did a water change. When I took out the DW i found a LOT of GUNK on the bottom. So after a water change and getting the filter back running I let it sit. LOTS of gunk settled to the bottom that i'm going to siphon out with a few more water changes. I MIGHT also rearrange the scape, basically just reverse it, and put the DW in front of the filter intake and move the crypt forest over to the left side of the tank. So not a HUGE change, but if I pull everything out, that will give me the chance to add a bit more gravel to this tank, something that it definitely could use. 

Anyway, once this tank is all settled in again, I'll move the juvie ZFish from the 5g over to the 10g and then do some MUCH NEEDED moss trimming on the 5g. 

And eventually i'll get around to rescaping the 30g :hihi:


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## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

Sorry on the OD


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

thanks 2in10. 

WkndRacer - you were right about melted plants too! the E. vesvius and the crypts didn't seem to appreciate the H2O2 bomb too much. sigh. There's definitely still green leaves left on the vesuvius and only some of the crypt leaves melted, so i think both are salvageable which is good. But hadn't seen the melting yet when you first commented, I guess that comes a little later....oops.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

So sad on the fishies! Kara, it really sucks but you didn't do it on purpose. And as you told me, keep your chin up.  Looking forward to the rescape pictures! From what you described, it sounds like it could be pretty.

And I can't believe you just apologized to me for ALGAE! LOL.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Your mosses look super clean and healthy with just a couple little spots in the photos at the top of the page (post 641) but other than that tiny bit of algae it's the brightest cleanest I've seen, Sorry to hear about your fish too.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

sewingalot said:


> And I can't believe you just apologized to me for ALGAE! LOL.


BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA i'm so silly!!! :icon_lol: of course you wouldn't care :hihi: (but i know that's not entirely true because you LOVE algae....but in your algae tanks, not taking over your non-algae-designated tanks like this would have done)

Anyway, thanks on the condolences Sara, and you're right, I'm trying to take my own advice and not beat myself up too much since it WAS an accident. Trying to look at the silver lining, like, at least the hair algae is gone now and I can do a rescape. I'm going to TRY to get it done tonight if I don't get out of work too late. 

150EH, thanks! The hair algae issue was in the 10g, the moss tank is the 5g. But thanks! Yeah the moss itself stays pretty algae free (so far) in this tank, I'm loving it! I get GSA and some brown algae on the front glass, but it's nothing a quick swipe with the mag-float doesn't take care of roud: thanks on the condolences too.


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Ummm...did you need me to send you some moss??? Haha, looks like you are the new moss farmer in town lady!!! I cant wait to see you trim it. It grows bushier when you trim it and this tank is going to be the fuzz for sure :hihi: It looks really healthy and will be really cool to see fill in again once you trim it. Psst...I hear Sara is looking for some moss. But dont tell her I told you that :hihi: I guess I wont harass you for pics in this thread since you just put some up recently  Its nice to see you checking back in!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Hahaha oh yes, I am desperate for some moss, can't you tell?! :icon_lol: Thanks for the compliments! I'm excited to see this tank trimmed too!  I'm worried about it because i feel like every time i've trimmed moss in the past, instead of growing back bushy and happy and healthy, it dies? But there is SO much moss in here, that I _think_ I'll be ok  (and I'm going to assume the moss I trim off and send to Sara, at least SOME of it will grow, and I can get it back from her if mine does die :tongue 

It's nice to have a tiny amount of time to check back in! :biggrin: (sadly it's because i was at work this weekend but had periods of long incubation times in my experiments and didn't have to pretend to be / actually doing other work during them because i was here on the weekend LOL)

And it's funny that you're not harassing me about pics _for this thread_ because I actually DO have pics for this thread because I did the 10g rescape last night :hihi: The pics are currently still on my camera, so check back in later today / tonight for them roud:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

RESCAPE! 

So after the disaster with the H2O2 I decided to take the opportunity to pullt everything out of this tank, do some SERIOUSLY NEEDED gravel vacc'ing, add some more gravel (it was a bit shallow in this tank) and do a bit of a rescape. 

So I drained the tank, pulled out all the plants and set them aside









then I poured some water back in, intentionally doing it roughly to stir up all the "gunk" and then siphoned it back out, and let me just say YUM! :hihi:

















"I love that dirty water..."

Looking better on the second go round, mostly clay this time from the root tabs:


















Did another couple changes and then drained the tank completely


















I dumped the 5lbs of new black gravel into a container (bonus points if you know what kind of container this is :hihi 









washed the gravel (hence the need for a container :tongue:









Added it to the tank (this doesn't look much different than the before picture but i promise it's a bit deeper now :hihi









and planted! 

top view, left side, no water









top view, right side, no water









front view, no water









and FILLED!









I'll get more (better) pics once the "dust" settles roud: 

There are a few more things I still need to do, I'm going to pull a few crypts from the 30g to fill out the forest a little more since i had a decent amount of melting after the H2O2 incident, I need to finally change that awful blue airline to a clear one, and i need to stuff the substrate full of fresh root tabs. And then of course I need to move the juvie Zfish into their new home and then give the moss tank a WAY overdue haircut roud: So be on the lookout for more updates


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

When you remodel, you tear down everything, even the "beams". :hihi: I must say I like your latest idea. Nice placement on the java driftwood with the field of crypts.

It seems to have a better layout than this last shot. 









Are you planning on just these three plants? That could be awesome.

Edit: Thanks for the mosses, by the way. I can't wait!


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Wow, your java ferns have gotten big!!! I like the rescape


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

tank looks nice!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Sara - hahahaha yes, yes I do! I like to go all out, if i'm tearing it out, might as well go all the way! :hihi: And thanks! And you're welcome, the moss and ferns are hanging out in a clear container getting light from the 5g desk lamp, once i have a chance to trim the 5g I'll send the moss  

Oh and yes, for now, I am only planning to have the 3 plants, java ferns (though there are a few different types), crypts (also a coupe different ones, or at least, there are a few different colors of _C. wendtii_) and the one anubias. roud:

Chad - haha yes, the java ferns have done very well in this tank, and thanks!!!  

Orchidbob - thanks!!!


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## orchidman (Dec 15, 2010)

orchidbob, i like that


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

I love that you are doing just the three types of plants! I can't wait to see the next update in six months. :hihi: By the way, I am so excited about my secret plans, aren't you? We'll call them Kara and Sara's top secret java and moss convention plans.  Have you moved the fish over yet? Or are you waiting to make sure the tank doesn't have a cycle?


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

Women making evil secret plans. Hold onto your hats boys, this could get poetic :hihi:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

hahahahaha Chad, I just burst out laughing reading that and now everyone else is looking at me funny :hihi: 


and no it's not because i look like a bunny
it's because you made me laugh extremely hard
oh look what you've done, now I'm a bard
again with the rhyming, I can't seem to stop
though this will be brief, i'll be done in a pop
now onto the rest of what i wanted to say
but not in a poem, sorry no not today

eh-hem...

Sara, I do love your plan!!! I really want to get the plants out to you, but no I haven't moved the fishies over just yet, I do want to keep an eye on parameters and stuff, but I'm going to check them tonight and then move the little guys over I think. I was thinking I's move some of the floaters that are nearly covering the whole top of the 50g to this tank to help suck up excess ammonia if there is any. But I can't leave it sitting too long with no fish because then the good bacterias will all die and that's bad too :tongue: 

the point is

you'll have your moss soon
and be over the moon 
to carry out the evil, villainous plan


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Karackle said:


> the point is
> 
> you'll have your moss soon
> and be over the moon
> to carry out the evil, villainous plan


LOL, I am so impressed at this one. I have nothing witty to say in return. :hihi: The floaters sound like a good plan. Haha, floaters used to prevent floaters! I crack myself up!


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## chad320 (Mar 7, 2010)

I hope we all dont look like buffoons
When were overtaken by these planted tank goons.
Teammates, poetry, and very weird tunes,
I cant wait to see it, I hope that its soon!
:hihi:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

sewingalot said:


> LOL, I am so impressed at this one. I have nothing witty to say in return. :hihi: The floaters sound like a good plan. Haha, floaters used to prevent floaters! I crack myself up!





chad320 said:


> I hope we all dont look like buffoons
> When were overtaken by these planted tank goons.
> Teammates, poetry, and very weird tunes,
> I cant wait to see it, I hope that its soon!
> :hihi:


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

that is all.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

The bad news: Only 1 baby zebrafish survived the move from 5g to 10g tank, but he is healthy and happy, though a little small. He was just moved to the 30g so I could use the 10g as a QT for some new fish for the 30g (just a few). The fish population is dwindling in all of my tanks so I'm going to start repopulating. 

Anyway, the good news is that the 10g is filling in very nicely, the crypts have really filled in and spread out. The 5g is also doing ok, though it's not looking the BEST it ever has since i've been lax about water top-offs since there hasn't been a fish in the tank for a while. I'm trying to decide on the stocking for these tanks. I was thinking of making the 5g a shrimp tank and getting a few fish for the 10g (WCMMs again maybe, or maybe a school of CPDs, funds allowing, maybe even just simply some neons) but then I saw a GORGEOUS white, and i mean WHITE betta at the store when i went to get a new filter last night. I didn't get him, but I'm REALLY tempted to go back for him, i do LOVE bettas. I could either risk the betta with shrimp in the 5g assuming there is enough moss cover in the tank for the shrimp to hide, or I could put the betta in the 10g and with an oto or two and still make the 5g a shrimp tank. 

Decisions decisions. 

Either way, I'm going to try to get some pictures up in the next couple of days.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Long time no post, Miss Kara. Hello!!!

So sad on the zebrafish, but you still have 1! Better than nothing, right? You need to start neglecting your studies and stop working so hard to look after your tanks. :hihi: WCMM I <3, you know my position on bettas. (Everyone should have at least one betta at all times) and a WHITE betta would be cool.

What kind of filter did you get? 

Looking forward to the pictures!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Hahahaha I know, I know, darn you school!!!! hahahaha 

I know, I'm glad I have at least one lil survivor  And so far he seems to be doing well in the 30g. 

I feel like 1 betta in a 10g will look lost and the tank will look empty, though it could be really pretty since the white guy will really stand out....if he's still there when I get back to the pet store (fingers crossed!) It does feel weird not having a betta at all right now! I think I might get the white one if he's there. Maybe that will be the deciding factor, leave it up to fate  Or maybe I'll just get a betta in any case and figure out the rest from there :hihi: Put shrimp in all the tanks and see how they do or something like that. 

for now, i've got a bunch of new fish in QT in the 10g, I'll probably put the betta (from the same store) in something like this in the 10g and get a few more fish from a different store to QT in the 5g for now.

And I'll try to get pics up in the next day or two, I was away this weekend, hence the delay.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

As promised, I've got some PICTURES! :biggrin: 

*10g update:* 

this tank is currently home to 2 fancy guppy males, 2 white zebra danios (not albino), 4 otos and 1 red dragon betta in QT. The betta and possibly some of the otos are the only ones that will be staying. The guppies and zebras are destined for the 30g. Please excuse the large white "box" in the middle of the FTS, male guppies and bettas don't do well together, so the betta has a separate home within the 10g for the time being. The 5g is being used to quarantine some more fish from a different store so the betta has to deal with his apartment for a short while. 

Anyway, PICTURES!

FTS:









Betta (blurry picture due to the net, but I wanted to show how happy and active he seems to be so far):








also, the moss in there was taken from the 5g, scroll down to see the gaping hole it left in the neglected moss wall. Sigh. oops. 

So far I have been pleasantly surprised, I put 4 otos in this tank on Weds last week and today I still have 4 live otos! (i hope i haven;t just jinxed it!)

Oto 1:









Oto 2:









Oto 3:









Oto 4:








I'm a little worried about this guy, if you can see, he has a couple white patches on his head, I can't tell if they are odd markings, scarring or something more sinister so I will keep a close eye on him, as far as I can tell they are not raised or showing signs of being fungus, but I'll keep an eye on him nonetheless. 

More fat happy oto pics:



























Quite a few more crypts than in my last post:









(for comparison, this is the picture from when I first rescaped the tank):









*5g Update:* 

This tank evaporates SO QUICKLY, I really need to do something to remedy this. The back plastic piece of the glass canopy is missing on this tank so there is a large gap that allows rapid evaporation. I'm thinking of getting a piece of plexiglass to replace the back piece of glass that I can cut to fit so it spans from the hinge to the back of the tank with a notch in the corner for the air line and heater wire and a cutout for the filter. Or maybe I'll nix the glass canopy altogether and do a 1 piece plexi top. We'll see. 

Anyway, due to the combination of rapid evaporation and neglect due to classes (no fish have inhabited this tank in quite some time making it less important to me to keep the tank up) this tank has seen better days. There't quite a bit of algae on the front glass, much of the moss has died off, but much of it is still looking great. Anyway, in the interest of documenting the good and the bad, here is the sad state of this tank at the moment (though the WQ is excellent)

FTS: 









the right side of the moss wall has completely departed from the mesh used to make it and there is a lot of brown, dead moss: 









While the left side has lots and lots of super healthy, flourishing moss:









This tank is currently serving as a quarantine tank for 7 beckford's pencilfish and 1 poor little CPD that was all alone in a tank with 2 giant cory cats. I read that the pencilfsh made good dither fish, so I thought the little guy would be happier with a school of Beckford's than by himself in any case. I think I'm going to try to get more of these guys too, but I'm on a bit of a budget so I might have to increase my numbers slowly. I also grabbed 2 amanos at the same time. 

Anyway, the pencilfish obliged me with some photo ops, they're really cool little fish that like to hover....though the picture quality isn't as good as it might be because I didn't clean the algae off the front glass:


















you can really see the "naked" spot in the moss wall in this one: 









SO as you can see, this tank needs some serious TLC, but for the moment, the water quality is good so I'm going to leave well enough alone until after quarantine. But then I will pull out the moss wall and cave, re "seed" them (the left side moss that is doing well shaded out the cave! oops!) and try again. 

The current plan for stocking of these 2 tanks is to put the pencilfish and the betta in the 10g once QTs are done (I found this video online, it seems to work well) Of course, I will keep a close eye out for aggression from the betta and tail nipping from the beckford's. If it does NOT work out, I will either move the betta to the 5g or move the pencilfish to the 30g. As for the 5g, I was thinking of making it a shrimp only tank, but I might do shrimp and CPDs (if that works, i'll have to do some research). if I decide to keep the betta in the 5 and the beckford's in the 10, I'll probably do CPDs in the 10 with them and just hope there is enough moss for some of the shrimp to hide from the betta. 

Ok, that's a LOT to read so I'll stop here for now. 

Thanks for reading this far whoever actually DID read this far!  

As always, questions, comments, suggestions, etc. etc. etc. are more than welcome.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Great update, Kara! So many pictures I found myself staring at them instead of reading the text. I had to go back to read. :biggrin: From what I can tell, the betta is a good looking one. Right now it reminds me of Jessica Rabbit behind a changing screen. LOL. I bet I can guess his future name.......drum-roll please.........Mr. Betta!

I had a white zebra longfin like that. It was sold as a "pearl danio" at like 5 x the price. It was a beautiful fish, especially when she matured. I miss that danio. 

Yay on the otos! On your 4th oto picture, I had to look a good two minute to even find the little fellow.  I was about to say "Kara posted the wrong photo when I saw him." It kind of looks like scaring, doesn't it? Still a very good idea to watch over him.

Even with the moss melt, the tank is still so lush especially for a lowtech highneglect tank. Hey - We should start a high neglect club. :hihi:

For the water evaporation on the 5 gallon, do you still have a heater in there? You could unplug it for at least the summer and it'll help a lot. When I plugged back in my heater, I lost over a gallon of water in just a few days. Without the heater, I don't have to top off except every few weeks or so. And since the pencils live comfortably in lower temperatures, I bet they'd be fine. Plus if you do shrimp in the 5 in the future, they don't need a heater from my personal experience with them. If you house the betta, we know that is a different story. Something to think about. 

Looking good Miss Kara.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Thanks Sara!!! I'm glad you enjoyed the [STRIKE]crappy[/STRIKE] pictures  heehee, and yes, he will probably be called Mr. Betta. He looks a lot like the link I posted but with longer fins. And probably not quite as perfectly white. But very pretty and cool nonetheless :biggrin: 

Yeah I saw some "pearl danios" that definitely were a different kind of fish and they were more expensive too, I wonder which kind you actually had? If you could sort of see the stripes like in this one, then it sounds like they sold you a colorless zebra danio for the cost of a pearl danio. But I'm glad she was a cool fish either way roud:  

HAHAHAHA WOW that Oto DOES blend in doesn't he?! When I was first editing I had just taken the pictures so I knew right where he was, but when I was looking just now I was like "what?! where did he go!?" HAHAHAHA But yes, I agree, I think it does look a bit of scarring, but I'll definitely keep a close eye on him just in case. I am SO thrilled about the otos, I hope they continue to do well!  

Yeah I guess for a neglected low tech tank the moss tank could definitely be worse :hihi: High neglect club, WOOHOO! hahahaha

Good call on turning off the heater to help prevent evaporation, I'll definitely try that, but I think I might also come up with tighter top anyway, it will help prevent salt buildup on top of the tank a little bit too, but until I can get around to making something, turning off the heater should help. Thanks!


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

I had one like this but longer fins. Pretty neat fish. I only bought one with other danios. It seemed like they got along well. At the males mated with her constantly. :hihi:

Yeah, I was like "silly Kara and here thinking there is an oto in that picture, maybe that's why she thinks he's sick." LOL! 

I'll be member #2. All my tanks are neglected.  Definitely on the tighter top. 

Amazing that all 4 otos made it past the 48 hour mark. Sounds like you got the right petstore.


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## green_valley (Sep 14, 2011)

Cool pictures. Speaking about ottos, I think I need some....hmmmmmmmmmm


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## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

Wow another update, awesome, pencilfish are very cool little guys


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

*Sara* - cool! So you DID have a real pearl danio, they're REALLY pretty, I saw some at the pet store actually, but you are right, they're MUCH more expensive. They're gorgeous though. I don't want to put TOO many guppy baby eating fish in the tank just now because I'd like the guppies to do a little bit of repopulating for now, but maybe once they've accomplished that i'll grab a pair of the pearl danios, I bet they'd add some nice shimmery color to the tank  

And yeah, that 48hr mark seems to be pretty critical for Otos, so i'm happy happy so far!  But no, I didn't think he was sick because he wasn't really there :hihi: 

*Green Valley *- Thanks! And yeah, otos are fun little fish! They're really cute AND great algae eaters.....but the old expression used to be that you should get double the number of otos you actually want and you MIGHT end up with the right number because they tend not to do so well right away, once they are acclimated to a new tank though, they're REALLY hardy. So I've been very pleased so far that all 4 are still going!

*2in10 *- i KNOW can you believe?! picture updates for BOTH threads on the SAME DAY?!?!? hahahaha no but seriously, it's been too long and it's good to be back for now. :biggrin: roud: 

I don't think there is too much to report today other than as far as I can tell all of the fish are still kicking. I counted only 3 otos last night but there are plenty of places for an oto to hide and blend in in that tank and I didn't see a dead oto, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that all 4 are in there. I haven't seen the Amanos since I put them in the 5g but they're probably gorging on algae and other tiny creatures living in the moss. As of last night definitely 6 and probably all 7 pencilfish and the CPD were still alive though :biggrin: Even though the lights were off I did a quick check this morning and I counted 6 pencilfish (they're little bit of shimmer actually made them almost easier to find in the dark :hihi and all of the fish in the 10g (well, I couldn't find all the otos in the dark). 

So I'm happy so far and QT seems to be going well. I'll be shocked but happy if all of the pencilfish and CPD live because I (gasp) bought them at PetCo. Though I have to say, the tanks at my local PetCo are very clean and I've bought fish from them before that are still around. So we'll see.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Quick update and then bedtime :hihi: 

I still haven't seen the amanos since putting them in the 5g, but no large shrimp carcasses either, so i'm guessing they're in the moss somewhere. I counted definitely 6 pencilfish and the CPD, no signs of dead fish but I may have lost one, I fed them to bring everyone out of hiding and could only see 6. There was one pencilfish that was pretty pale even after the other started coloring up, so I might have lost one, but maybe not, he might not have been hungry  The 6 I did see have colored up REALLY nicely which I'm taking as a good sign  I've read they lose their color when stressed, and these guys seem to be pretty young (i'm basing this on the full size being 2" and these guys aren't even quite 1" yet) so the fact that I'm seeing those nice reds and dark black stripes is a good sign I think  

The guppies, otos and white zebra danios have been in QT for 1 full week and all still looking great. I'm 98% sure I still have all 4 otos, the 3 I counted yesterday did not include the little guy with the scars on his head, but one of the 3 I counted tonight WAS the one with the scars on his head....so I'll assume that means all 4 are still in there  

The betta is still doing well too, though I'm sure he can't wait to get released from his "apartment"  Soon little guy, soon :hihi:

Speaking of which.....how long should I quarantine? Another week?


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Not much to report, all 7 pencilfish and the CPD have been out and about and looking pretty good. 2 of the pencils look like they MIGHT have worms, it's hard to tell if they're just skinny or maybe they're males, but I went ahead and hit the tank with an antiparasite / dewormer anyway. It also made me realize I haven't actually wormed any of my tanks in a while, so I decided to go ahead and just hit all of the tanks, just in case. The rest of the fish are looking good and happy, and the CPD has rounded out nicely, I think he was stressed and not really eating in the big tank alone at the pet store. But he seems quite happy with his new friends. He actually schools with them! roud:

The betta, 4 otos, 2 guppies and 2 zebra danios are also looking really good and getting chubby :hihi: Writing this just reminded me I took a couple fish pictures of one of the zebras this morning that I will post tomorrow.  There's one zebra that likes to hang out next to the betta's "apartment" right up front of the glass, so I got some good ones (i think / hope). 

I've been keeping an eye on water parameters, so far ammonia and nitrIte are holding steady at 0, very low nitrAtes in the 10g, a little more in the 5g, but not too bad and the water changes for the meds will drop them down probably to nil. I love quarantining in established planted tanks :hihi:


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## green_valley (Sep 14, 2011)

Karackle said:


> *Green Valley *- Thanks! And yeah, otos are fun little fish! They're really cute AND great algae eaters.....but the old expression used to be that you should get double the number of otos you actually want and you MIGHT end up with the right number because they tend not to do so well right away, once they are acclimated to a new tank though, they're REALLY hardy. So I've been very pleased so far that all 4 are still going!


Yeah, they are fun indeed, but somewhat sensitive for sometimes, as you mentioned. I had 2 and they lasted forever, then I bought 20, they're gone now.


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

Karackle said:


> The betta, 4 otos, 2 guppies and 2 zebra danios are also looking really good and getting chubby :hihi: Writing this just reminded me I took a couple fish pictures of one of the zebras this morning that I will post tomorrow.  There's one zebra that likes to hang out next to the betta's "apartment" right up front of the glass, so I got some good ones (i think / hope).


it sounds like you got some great ones!  chubby fish are happy fish. Can't wait to see the pics


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Ok, so a bit of bad news and a lot of good news. 

The bad news is I found my Amano shrimp.....both of them apparently decided to try and go on an adventure outside of the tank, as you can imagine, this is a terrible plan for a fully aquatic shrimp, so alas, no more amanos  

On to the good news, all 7 pencilfish are looking excellent, even the one that seemed a bit skinny and pale is looking more colorful today. I'm hoping that's a good sign!  The little CPD is still hanging out with the pencils and looking less skinny by the day. Unfortunately, no pics of those guys yet, they're very little making them hard to capture, plus I still need to clean the algae off the front glass, but I'll do that when I do the 25% water change before the second dose of dewormer tomorrow. I will try to get pictures after the "dust" settles post-water change. I do have some pictures related to the 5g tank though, I made a new cover for it to hopefully help decrease the rate at which the water evaporates, I took pics of the process so I'll be posting those shortly. 

As for the 10g, I move the guppies and zebras to their new home and released the betta into his new home. 

Before all that, I noticed one of the zebras liked to hang out next to the betta's "apartment" so I grabbed a few pictures (before the lights went on):

not a great picture of the zebra, but it's so clear and one of the first good betta pics so i'm posting it :tongue:: 









zebra danio chilling:









Attempting to get pictures of the cool zigzag in her stripes:


















So today when I went to remove the fish, the danios were SO hard to catch. The guppies were a bit tricky too, but I got them. Once I got them I released the betta and attempted to catch the danios. I managed to trap one in a corner but I could not get the other. I ended up having to remove the driftwood, look what I found attached to the wood casually growing in among the java ferns: 








A CRYPT! :hihi: I don't know why I found it so amusing, but there it is.

Anyway, I gave the dust time to settle and then I was able to get some good betta shots. 

These first few are not the most representative of his color, but I thought some of them were pretty cool: 



























And these few give a better idea of his actual coloring: 



























For pictures of the guppies, please see my 30g thread. 

He was being very cooperative for picture taking :biggrin:

I'm going to post the DIY aquarium top build in a second post.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Ok so as I mentioned in my previous post, I made a new top for my 5g tank. Somewhere along the lines, the plastic piece that normally goes on the back of a glass canopy got lost and as a result, the rate of evaporation (and calcium / salt buildup as you will see) was staggering. So I wanted to try and make a top that would cover as much of the top of the tank as I could manage. 

I decided to make a top out of plexiglass (actually Lexan) that would fit the whole top minus a corner (to let the heater cord and airline through) and a cutout for the filter. 

I forgot to take pictures of the first cut, but it was done exactly the same way as the second cut, so it would have been redundant anyhow. 

I measured and used a square (off of the factory cut straight edge that I checked for square before starting, it was) to draw a line that I then extended with a ruler: 









Next I clamped the ruler over top of the lexan for a straight edge that wouldn't move (unfortunately I couldn't find my cork backed metal ruler so it was a bit tricky working with a clear ruler, but i made it work)









Tools:









I didn't buy a glass cutter because I used to have one, but I found that the sharp edge of my painter's tool worked well for initial scoring (I found from the first cut that the razor was actually a bit TOO sharp and more prone to slipping, so I did the initial scoring with the painter's tool from now on):









Then I deepened the scoring (scouring?) with the razor: 









After quite a few passes, pressing hard, I removed the ruler and clamped the Lexan so that the scoring was just over the edge of my "workbench" (some 2 x 10 I screwed together into a makeshift bench from a previous project :hihi









I tried to take a close-up of the scored line just over the edge:









Then it was just a matter of applying pressure to make it snap across the scored line:









I brought the piece to the tank to see how it fit, unfortunately, it was a bit too long due to a combination of the imperfect scoring the first time and some incorrect (apparently) measuring. Measure once, cut twice right? :hihi: just kidding. I was almost exactly 1/4" off so I think I measured 15 5/8" instead of 15 3/8" or something like that. Either that or the measuring tape I used to take the initial measurements is slightly different than ruler. 

Anyway, drew a new line:









This time there wasn't much to "snap" so I used some pliers:


















As you can see, the line isn't quite as clean as the first one, but it's good enough:









It's the right length, so I marked where I wanted to make my final cuts:









Measured clamped and snapped again:



























Marked the cutout for the filter:









I scored the short lines freehand, and then clamped the ruler in place for the long one, I made sure the flat edges of the clamps were lined up with the short lines of the cutout and hanging over the ruler so they acted as barriers so I wouldn't cut too far:









A little bit of downward pressure with pliers next to the short cuts and upward pressure with my hand on the "non-scrap" part of the Lexan did the trick of separating the Lexan and then it was just a matter of snapping the final cut. I brought it to the tank to check the size, it fit 









Brought it outside for some sanding of the rough edges:









Last step was peeling off the protective plastic, moving the handle from glass canopy to the new Lexan canopy and putting it on the tank! 


















And then I cleaned the calcium / salt buildup: 









And that's that! I hope it helps!  If nothing else, it evens out how much light gets into the tank because the black hinge for the glass canopy takes up enough surface area that it actually does interfere a little bit with the light, so now that problem is eliminated, and hopefully this helps with the evaporation issue too roud:


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## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

Very nice work on the new lid, nice shots of your fish.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

thanks! I was definitely pleased with how the top came out, and I'm glad you like the pictures, for every one good one there I trashed about a million bad ones, so I'm glad all the work is appreciated roud: :hihi:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Snapped a few more fish pics today, the otos and betta were behaving nicely, the pencils were a little harder to catch a good picture of, that's partly my own fault for not scraping the algae off the glass yet thought

Attempts at pencilfish and CPD shots (I was significantly more successful with the pencils since there are 7 of them and only 1 CPD :hihi













































the only CPD shot I managed to get, and it's terrible :hihi::









On the other hand, OTO PARTY! 



























Betta hamming it up for me (I'm loving this betta so far, he's very active and REALLY cute and pretty!):




































Please excuse the white specks floating in some of the shots, I had just remedicated the tanks after a 25% water change. Another 25% water change in 2 days and I'll see how we look. That will be it for the 10g (and the 30g) but if the 2 skinnier pencils don't start fattening up like their friends, I might hit the 5g one more time. We will see. Once the medicating is done, and I feel comfortable moving these guys over to the 10g, I will be rescaping the 5g tank  I can't wait, it desperately needs it, I hope to be able to do it this weekend! I might even put the fish in a bucket with the filter running while I rescape so I can get it done this weekend either way. We will see


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

After the first set of pictures, I was going to say great looking betta. Then with the last set I was going: :eek5::drool: Seriously, that is a handsome betta. In fact, I believe he is too handsome for you and Ian will get jealous. So you better send him to me before the little guy causes friction in the relationship. :hihi:

I really am digging those pencil fish. I will be glad to home them with the betta as well. :tongue: And your cpd picture reminds me of my 9999999 attempts to photograph them as well. I think I managed like 2 semi-clear shots in all those tries. 

That little zebra fish's stripes remind me of a heartbeat. That is awesome. You've got some great looking fish in your tanks. :biggrin:

Oh, and I love the diy lid. You should make a thread in the diy section showing those pictures. I wish I'd seen that in my poor attempts in the past. Hey, since I am sending you my power head for modding, I'll include the dimensions for a new cover. 

Love all the updates, Kara!!!!! Thanks for all the cool pictures expecially of the fish. Oh, and I totally LOL'd at the crypt attached to the driftwood. Here I struggle to keep them alive and they like you so much they grow everywhere. :wink:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Yeah, he is a REALLY cool looking betta (and handsome and gorgeous), and he has a lot of personality i LOVE him :biggrin: 

I'm digging the the pencilfish too, they are a lot of fun, they're definitely good dither fish because that 1 CPD is out and about so much more than any of my other CPDs ever were! They're also a lot of fun to watch while they're eating because they like to pick out pieces of the food that are too big to fit in their mouths (instead of the smaller one that they could fit in their mouths) and they hold them in their mouths for a bit to soften and then continuously spit the pieces in and out taking off bites. It's so cool. I'm going to try to get a video of feeding time if I can  

You're right about the lines on the zebrafish too :hihi: it does look like a heartbeat graph thingo :icon_lol: 

Thanks for the compliments on the DIYs, you can go ahead and send me those projects and I'll send you the fish for trade.....oh wait.....i think that doesn't work out well for me :hihi: 

I was really glad I got some good fish pics! I'll keep trying for even more!!! :biggrin


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Hahaha, I love your idea of trades. I'll take that offer.  A video would be cool. The best way I ever got pictures of non slow moving fish was to take a video then a screen shot of a frame. LOL! Nice on the CPD. Are you going to try to find more? That is a fish I really liked and wouldn't mind seeing again.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Heehee sounds like a good idea on the trade :hihi: 

That's actually a really good idea about taking a video and then a screen shot! I'll try that  I'll also try to get video of feeding time  Can I upload videos to photobucket? 

And yes, I would like to get more CPDs but I'll probably have to add them slowly as I don't have a lot of extra cash right now :tongue:


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

i'm pretty sure you can upload video to photobucket but why not just create a youtube account?


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Too much effort / too many accounts to keep track of


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

haha that's why you make all of your account names the same...then you don't have to remember anything new.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

haahahahha yeah but then I still have to remember that I HAVE 9084598372648576 accounts :hihi: 

So, of course, this weekend ended up being a lot busier than I planned and I didn't get a chance to take the video, or get any rescaping done, or even a chance to move the fish, oops :redface::icon_redf 

I'm actually having trouble deciding what to do, I'm a little nervous about moving the pencilfish to the 10g with the betta, he leaves the otos alone, but they also do their own thing, the pencilfish and CPD will be swimming around the tank. Would it be better to put the betta in his "apartment" for a while to let him get used to the pencilfish in the tank? 

I really want to redo the 5g tank, but I want to take the fish out before I do it because it really needs a complete overhaul, the moss wall needs to come out and get redone, the cave needs redoing and the gravel needs a serious vacuuming. 

How do I know if the betta is going to be a problem? Will it be obvious quickly? 

I'll go do some searching on the forums also. 

Other than that, the fish are all doing well, all 7 pencils are still going strong and the 2 that looked skinny and pale (which made me want to hit the tank with the wormer) are brightly colored now and seem to be getting less skinny roud:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Good news, the fish are all doing REALLY well so far!!!  All seven of the pencilfish AND the CPD are always out and about now!  The two pencilfish that hid a lot and were a little pale with slightly sunken bellies are super brightly colored now, always hanging out with their friends and fattening up, I'm very pleased! 

I plan to move the fish around this weekend. 

The plan is to start drip acclimating the pencilfish and CPD with water from the 10g tank. While I am doing that I will clean and redo the 5g tank which includes redoing the moss wall and cave and moving the anubias out from under a mountain of moss :hihi: I will save some of the water from the 5g and then I will do a major gravel vac.
Once the 5g is done and refilled, I will begin drip-acclimating the betta with water from the 5g tank. Once he is in the acclimation container, I will move around some of the hardscape in the 10g and then I will add the pencilfish and CPD to the tank. In a few days, I will try putting the betta back in the 10g, but if that doesn't work out, at least I have the 5g for him


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Finally got these tanks redone!  I redid the moss wall and cave in the 5g, added some java ferns that had come loose to (or back to) the smaller piece of DW in the 10g and then rearranged a few things. I actually really like the way it came out, I think it's the best scape i've had in this tank  

First I scooped the 7 pencilfish and the CPD out of the tank and began drip-acclimating them to the 10g tank water which served the dual purpose of getting the fish used to the slightly higher pH in the 10g tank (due to the small amount of eco-complete in the substrate) AND it gave them somewhere to hang out while I redid the 5g tank. 

Drip-acclimating the lil guys:









empty tank (just after removing the cave and wall):









empty tank after the dust settled, i had to get rid of all that gunk, hence needing to remove all the fish first :hihi::









My supplies:








moss wall and cave, cup full of extra moss from the 60g tank, superglue, thread, and a spray bottle of tank water to keep everything from drying out

As you can see, the moss wall was doing great on the left side and had COMPLETELY disappeared on the right, and therefore definitely needed to be redone: 









I cut open the wall:









Stuffed it with more moss and sewed it together, a few long passes lengthwise to keep all the moss from sliding down:









To redo the moss cave, since I didn't feel like remaking it completely and couldn't simply open it like I did the wall, I chose to sew the moss into place on the underside of the cave:









There was a small anubias that was growing under the moss wall, I decided to stick it on top of the cave:








I just hope the mesh isn't to dense at the top for the moss to grow through. We will see what happens, if I have to redo it, I'll sew the moss to the top, but I was hoping to get it to stick in place more permanently by letting it grow through form the bottom roud:

Everything back in place:








Tank looks very bare, hopefully the moss grows in quickly  But now it's ready for the betta

10g redo in the next post


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Betta drip-acclimating so I could add the pencilfish to the 10g:









Pencilfish and CPD released into their new home (also shows the "before" picture of the tank):


















Supplies to reattach the java fern to the small piece of DW:









I wanted to reposition the big piece of DW too but the only way it fit (well the only way it fit that I also liked how it looked) looked ugly due to the branch wrapped in mesh with no moss growing from it so I decided to redo it:









the offending branch:









java moss reattached after the mesh was removed:


















I put the DW back into the tank, moved the anubias to the crook made by the "arms" of the DW, and moved the crypts forward to make space for the small piece of DW in the back of the tank:


















right side (anubias moved to its new place nestled among the DW):









left side (crypts moved forward, DW in back):


















Betta released into the 5g tank, I added some sunset hygro from the 60g tank and the other hygro from the 30g tank so it wouldn't be so bare for the betta:




































Moss cave and wall close-ups, can't wait til the moss starts to grow through:


















That's all the updates for now I think


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## green_valley (Sep 14, 2011)

That's pretty cool rescape. I like your Beta.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Thank you! I'm really pleased with the rescape of the 10g and I'm sure I will like the 5g even more once the moss starts growing in  

And yeah thank you so much, I love the betta, I can't believe how lucky I was to find him in a pet store! roud:


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Wow, Kara. When you come back on the forums, you come back on the forums. :biggrin: I really love what you did with the place.  Seriously, I've got to stop chatting with you outside of the planted tank about your tank as I end up telling you everything I like in detail and then I feel bad for not posting in your journal, lol.

I absolutely love how you laid out the old driftwood to hug the side of the tank and cradle the anubias. It's sweet looking. Also, the 5 gallon will look great with the moss regrowing in the wall on both sides and the cave returning to greatness. I was thinking have you thought about a moss carpet? That could be awesome. 

And love, love, love Mr. Betta. I won't to know if you'll stud him out to my girl betta. :hihi:


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## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

Beautiful rescape, well done


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

hahahaha thanks Sara!!!  If we lived closer I'd totally stud him out to you, but I don't know how he'd handle being shipped back and forth  

Thanks 2in10!!!


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

I'll ship her to you and you can do your magic with successfully breeding fish. Then you can ship her back after she has an extended vacation. :hihi:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

hahahahahahaha, i've never bred bettas but I'm willing to try!

Though Ian might kill me because I hear it takes up a lot of space....and where would I get enough containers for all the babies?! LOL


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Start eating baby food. Or the dollar store! You'll only need about 100 and to do that many water changes a day. This is what stopped me from trying. That and realizing most bettas don't get to live a pampered life like ours do.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

hahahahaha I actually found some perfect containers at A.C.Moore when I was looking for some DIY wedding decoration items :hihi: 

Otherwise I'll have my bro keep the baby food jars from the little one :hihi:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

HOLY MAMA JAMA! Has it seriously been over a MONTH since I last posted? Shoot the last month has been crazy hectic, I was on vacation for a week, back at work for 2 weeks during which I worked crazy long hours to try and get some stuff done before being gone for ANOTHER week. I thought I would have lots of time to play on the internet the second week I was gone from work because I was home taking care of my mom who just had her hip replaced and knew she'd be sleeping a lot. Wouldn't you know it, the internet was out at my parent's the week I was home and when it was working it was aaaboooouut as fast as dial up. No joke. 

I have some (now much delayed) pics to post that I will try to get to today or tonight. 

In the meantime though, all of the new fishies (pencils, lonely CPD, otos and Betta) are still doing well! The pencils are really fun little fish! 

More to come soon, I promise!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

So apparently the only pictures i had stored on my computer for updates were for the 30g, but the 5 and 10g are growing in quite nicely so I'm going to get some pictures and post them soon, but I can't promise it will be tonight!


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## MaStErFiShKeEps (Dec 6, 2010)

I keep checking this thread and still no pictures. Just seems like useless text.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

MaStErFiShKeEps said:


> I keep checking this thread and still no pictures. Just seems like useless text.


This has to be one of the most unhelpful comments I've ever read not to mention rude to Karackle who has taken the time to update her thread. You could learn a wealth of information by reading her "useless text" and will learn very little if anything at all looking at pictures. This is a journal which means updating progress not just posting a picture book... 

Kara - how is the family doing? Did you have a great week with your mom? 

Also, how are you liking the power sponge filter? I really like my aquaclear but hate my marineland power head so I switched. How is mr betta? Oh and any more fish deaths after the danio? I hope not!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Masterfishkeeps - As Sara said, this is not just a photo album, it's a journal that I use to document the progress of my tanks for myself and so hopefully someone else can learn something if they choose to by reading what I write. I like pictures too, but that's not the whole point, it's a fun occasional bonus. 

Sara (Sewingalot) - thank you. Mom is doing well, she's recovering really well, we had a great visit and I got to play with the nephews a lot!  

I am actually really liking the powerhead sponge filter so far, the tank seems healthy which I obviously like  I still need to move the little one to the back left corner facing forward, because I've decided to keep it. It's a better water polisher because I can put filter floss in it so it's good for that, plus a little extra filtration never hurts right? roud: 

I could PROBABLY take out the bag of ceramic media at this point, but it's hiding on the ground behind the rock at the moment so I'll let it stay for now (though I'm sure the filters are plenty well colonized at this point) :hihi: 

So far no more deaths in the 30g that I am aware of 

(no more deaths in the 5 or 10g that I know of either, though I haven't seen all 4 otos together in the 10g since getting home, but I think I've seen the 3 smaller ones as well as 2 small and 1 big at some point so I THINK all 4 are in there).


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## msjinkzd (May 12, 2007)

i, for one, appreciate teh little text updates in between the big posts. Keeps things in perspective and adds insight to the process of building and maintaining a tank. Keep up the good work!


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Glad to hear about your mom! And yay that you had newphew time. 

You know, you could just leave the bag of ceramic in the back as it will be a great bacteria grower and you could use it to help cycle another tank if you ever need be. That is if it is hidden and out of the way enough for you. Maybe you could attach some moss to it. 

That's a good idea about using the little filter as a fine water polisher. I should totally do that with the little power-head I have. I set it back up recently when that marineland started slowing down as I couldn't find the time to take the other powerhead apart to clean it. LOL.

Yay on the no more deaths! (And great deductive reasoning on the otos. It works.)


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Thanks MsJinkzd! I appreciate that!  

Thanks Sara! And yeah, that's a good point about the ceramic pieces, they're pretty well hidden (i'm not too sure where they even are anymore :hihi but really good idea about leaving them for beneficial bacteria and as a reserve for cycling new / QT tanks! 

Yeah, the little filter really works well as a water polisher, and it uses so little filter floss that when it's time to clean out the filter, I just dump the old floss and put in some fresh, don't even bother trying to clean it roud: 

I took a BUNCH of pictures but left my camera upstairs, so once this show is over I'll get on task again with uploading :hihi:

OH and as for otos, I saw all 4 of them today (as well as all 7 pencilfish and the CPD) so YAY for that! :biggrin:


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## jakevwapp84 (Jul 8, 2012)

tank looks great


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Jakevwapp - thanks!!!  

Alrighty, I think I've given most of the important updates already, so let's get straigt to the pictures roud: 

First, I intentionally took this picture BEFORE topping off the water to show that this is how much water evaporated over ONE MONTH, before I made the plexi top, I was losing this much water (if not more) every WEEK. Needless to say, the new top is doing it's job very well! :biggrin: roud:









Unfortunately, the moss wall is NOT doing so well this time  


















The cave isn't doing so hot either, but I knew that might be an issue based on how I added the moss this time:









I removed the ugly moss ball and topped off the tank:


















(I put the moss ball in there figuring it had an abundance of nano-creatures the betta could snack on while I was away for 2 out of the last 4 weeks......gone a week, home 2 weeks, gone another....left the moss in there the whole time, but now that I'm home, it's back in its nano tank :hihi

Some 10g FTS



























And some close-ups (lots of new growth from all the plants!)






















































And of course some fishy shots!

Otos:









Pencilfish (only half decent shot, excuse the water marks):









Betta:








































































Flaring at the mirror I was holding up for him:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

So, as noted, the moss wall and cave aren't doing so well this time, which means I need a plan. 

Some thoughts I've had are 

1) taking a page out of Sara's book and making a java fern wall

2) trying the moss again

3) trying stem plants again (low light, low maintenance stem plants of course)

4) trying an all crypts tank (if I can round up a variety of crypt types)

5) I'm open to other suggestions!

As always, thanks for looking!


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## 2in10 (Feb 8, 2011)

Sweet update, plants are looking great


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

thanks! I'm pretty happy so far with how the 10g is growing. Gotta figure out what to do with the 5g though.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

I can't believe it has been over a year since my last post! It has been a very busy year, I am still in graduate school, have work I am required to do for the fellowship I was awarded, and I was planning my wedding. 

But, today we are snowed in, the tank were in desperate need of some TLC, AND I decided to break down the 10g. We got a desktop computer recently and I needed to make space for it by moving a shelf to where the 10g was situated. So the fish (pencils and CPD), as well as both Java fern covered pieces of driftwood and the anubias are now inhabitants of the 30g tank. I regret I did not take one final picture of the tank before breaking it down. Though to be honest, not much had changed since the last picture. The Anubias sprouted some taller leaves and the Javas and Crypts filled in some. Once the dust settles, I will get pics of the Java DW in its new home and post it here. 

The Betta is still happy in his 5g, the shelf I am moving is one of those little 6 box desktop shelves that can go vertically or horizontally, so I will place it vertically where the 10g was. I like to have something to look at when I need a break from the computer screen while working on my thesis. AND I don't think the betta would fair too well going from his whole life as an only child to life among other fish.....especially when some of those fish are fancy male guppies (some of the other inhabitants of the 30g). I did some rearranging in his tank though, moved some of the crypts over from the 10g, moved one of the anubias, and I have a ball of [STRIKE]that lettuce looking plant[/STRIKE] pellia (or subwasstertang? something like one of those) that i still need to decide what to do with. 

I will post pics of the 5g once the dust settles.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

As promised, PICTURES!  Enjoy!

Couple full tank shots:


















Closer up of Left and Right side:


















Some Betta shots:




































What plant is this (not the anubias) and what should I do with it?


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Was accidentally on video mode while snapping pictures on my new camera. So I figured I would post it


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

So I talked to my friend that sent me the plants, and it is officially subwassertang that I was trying to decide how to use. I decided to use it the way I had originally used moss in this tank: to make a wall and cover the cave. 

I have never used subwassertang before, I was surprised at how far it goes! And that I had a lot more than I thought!!! I took some photos of the supplies and finished products, as well as everything put back in the tank. The tank photos are still a bit murky from the crud I kicked up putting the wall and cave back in place, but you get the idea 

Supplies ready to go (and a helper):


















Cave completed: 




































Wall completed: 









My helper fell asleep on me:









In the tank (again, sorry for the murk!):


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Tank cleared up overnight so I was able to get some better pictures of the subwassertang cave and wall




































And a couple betta shots



























I find myself unable to remember why I have that ugly sponge as a prefilter, the betta doesn't really need it, I have had bettas in the tank without it before, I think it's there because I was planning to put shrimp or the small pencilfish in this tank but I never did so I will probably remove it. I can't move it yet though because I found these today








which I have never seen before and got excited to have the right stuff that actually fits in the filter (instead of the random scraps i've been cutting myself) so I replaced both filter sponges today. Therefore, I will wait a couple weeks for the new sponges to get seeded with bacteria before removing the unsightly prefilter sponge that is undoubtedly housing plenty of extra bacteria  

That's all for now. Enjoy and thanks for looking. 

As always, all questions / comments / concerns / critiques are welcome!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

So I was just going back through this thread to find out what kind of Pencilfish I have, and some other information and I noticed my betta used to be much whiter. Do they change color as they age?


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

So far the subwassertang is still looking good. I know it's only been about a day, but I was nervous it might just all melt away or something after being out of the water for a while to get attached to the wall and cave. Having the green spread out like this makes the tank looks better already. I hope it stays!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

OOPS my poor Betta's tank was about 60 degrees the other day, I knew it was cool but I had no idea it was THAT cool. So I plugged his heater back in on the lowest setting (I find even heaters designed for 5g tanks often heat them higher than you set the heater). The tank is holding between 72-74 degrees and Mr. Betta seems MUCH happier, he is out and about a lot more. 

I would love to get some form of algae eater/ clean up crew for this tank, but Otos have never done well in this tank long term, and the last time I tried Amano shrimp they both jumped out. I have a better cover on the tank now, but I still worry maybe this tank is too small for them? 

Does anyone have any thoughts on good clean-up crew options for a 5g Betta tank?

Thanks!


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## alpha_betta (Jan 21, 2012)

Snails are one of the best clean-up crew to have volunteered for the position. But you may need an assassin snail to keep them in check or they will start eating your plants when they run out of algae.


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## Knotyoureality (Aug 3, 2012)

The new wall looks great--hopefully it'll do for you what the moss wouldn't as it really sets off the betta beautifully. 

Algae/clean up crew--I'd go with olive nerites (over the flashier zebra or red spot nerites) and leave the betta as the focus of the tank. They're just as good at cleanup, tend to be a bit smaller and--at least in my experience--lay fewer eggs.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

*alpha_betta* thanks for the idea, i could definitely snag a few snails from one of my other tanks

*knotyoureality* Thank you! I am really please with how the wall came out, let's just hope it stays looking that nice! And I didn't think of it that way, but you are right, it does set off the betta, an excellent added bonus  thanks for the tip on the olive nerites too, that is something I might look into!

My only concern with snails, is whether or not they will also clean up the pieces of food my betta misses that currently end up just sitting at the bottom?


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## AquaStudent (Jan 4, 2011)

Kara! Glad to see you back! Hope all is well.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Hi there! Thanks so much  I'm going to TRY to be on here off and on to update my tanks, but life is still pretty busy right now so once the semester gets going again I might disappear again, but hopefully not for another whole year+  Things are very well, thanks, just busy And yourself?


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

I need to snap some pictures of this tank, but it is doing well, so far the subwassertang wall and cave are looking good and the crypts have settled in and straightened out very nicely. 

I still need to toss some snails in here to clean things up some though. I keep forgetting to "harvest" them from the other tanks.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Talk about an epic fail! I never did get a chance to snap those pictures, and then grad school went into full swing again. Well I am still in grad school, but a different program and I have slightly more time these days so I have gotten a little more earnestly back into the hobby. 

Anyway, there reason I am really here is to update with pictures how that subwassertang wall and cave grew in. They look AWESOME in my opinion. Here are some pics. 

First, the algae / cyano mess of a few weeks ago: 




































But that's all been cleaned up, plants were unaffected, so here are some FTS from tonight:


















Close-up for left side of the tank: 









And right side (with cave):


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## jcmv4792 (Jul 15, 2015)

Very nice! Just wondering but how did you clean up all that algae and cyano?


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

thanks *jcmv4792*! Well since the only inhabitants were snails, I just did manual removal through a series of 100% water changes


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Did a small rescape in this tank today, I rescaped the 30g so I took some of the Crypt Green Gecko from this tank to go in the 30g, and I took some of the Crypt undulata from the 30g and put it in this tank. It doesn't look super different, but I like it  

Anyway, without further ado, pictures! 

Full Tank Shot: 









Closer up pictures of the crypts:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Oops! Meant to update this a while ago! Not too much to say other than the plants are growing in nicely, the crypt is getting very large again for this tank, might have to steal some more for the 30 and / or my office betta tank. I've been taking pics but forgetting to post, so here is a bit of a time lapse of FTS.

November 2015: 









January 2016:









March 2016: 









Cave in November









Cave in January









Enjoy!


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

I decided I wanted to try RCS again, and I figured with the abundance of subwassertang, this might be a great tank to try them in. So I picked up 3 and got a 4th shrimp (that is sort of clear or maybe yellowish with stripes) for free. Here they are drip-acclimating to their new home (I haven't been able to get a good pic of them in the tank....mostly because I can rarely even find them): 


















And the snails are back! GRRRRR (as much as I love snails as planted tank inhabitants, I do not appreciate them gumming up the works!)


















I decided to remove the spray barand just angle the outflow up. I try to keep up surface agitation to keep down the growth of the floaters which were trying to take over again with the reduced surface agitation because of the snails at the outflow (I removed some duckweed after these photos were taken)



























And a FTS









Crypts are getting huge, I'm thinking of removing the one on the left (and putting it in the betta tank), and shifting one of the 2 huge ones in the center a little to the left, but not as far as the current left-most plant is.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

I'm so sad, at least 2 of the shrimp are dead. 1 is definitely alive, I can't find the 4th at all. No idea what happened to them. The tank is well established, the zebra danio is happy as can be, the guppy I was quarantining in here was happy (unless the danio was picking on him) so I have no idea what happened to the RCS. 

I couldn't find any so I decided to check if they had gotten behind the mesh of the subwassertang wall. One was dead back there, but there's plenty of space so I don't THINK it got stuck. I saw red through the mesh, so one was in the subwassertang but if didn't move when I tapped the mesh so I went to find that shrimp, it was also dead. Then I saw more red, that one also didn't seem to move but when I dug around in the subwassertang, that one swam out. No sign yet of the 4th. 

Is it POSSIBLE they are getting stuck in the subwassertang? It seems really unlikely to me right?


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

This tank continues to do well, and the zebra danio is still going strong. However, I believe that all of my shrimp have died. If there is one left it stays hidden in the subwassertang. I think there's enough subwassertang that they could have stayed well hidden from the danio, and when they first went in and I did see them walking around I didn't see him bothering them, but it's a definite possibility. That said, I have had trouble keeping RCS alive ever since I moved to NJ. I had a nice colony going in NY, but once I moved here they slowly died off so it's also possible it's something about the water here. 

Anyway, here are some pictures of the tank. The little prepackaged crypts I got are doing much better than I expected! And the huge crypt continues to grow gigantic! In fact, I think it might be time to pull it from this tank entirely and move it to the 30g and move the little crypts to the left side of the tank. 























I do have a few new leaves that aren't looking so great so it's probably time to put some fresh root tabs in this tank.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

*Massive overhaul!*

Well Mr. Zebra Danio finally passed away about a month ago so I decided it was time to tear down and redo this tank. I got the idea in my head that I wanted it to look like the underwater root system of a mangrove forest. I got my hands on some beautiful branch bits of manzanita and began my rescape! 

Before (parting shot): 









After:



























More pics and descriptions available in this album. I didn't have time to write out the long post because I must get back to editing my thesis proposal!!! But I just remembered I made the album and never shared here so I decided to take a quick break and do so  

Oh! And don't worry, the gorgeous massive crypts found a nice new home in my 30g


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