# Help creating depth in 150 gallon



## rowrunner (May 22, 2012)

Looks good man, with pretty Discus in there all the better. If I had to be critical I would say your rocks and substrate match too closely, but I'm terrible at scapeing a tank.


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## thelub (Jan 4, 2013)

That funky black and white gravel might be part of your problem. You're on a good start with the elevated back section. The 18" deep will be your biggest hurdle on trying to get more depth. Its just like trying to scape a 55g.


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## ua hua (Oct 30, 2009)

thelub said:


> That funky black and white gravel might be part of your problem. You're on a good start with the elevated back section. The 18" deep will be your biggest hurdle on trying to get more depth. Its just like trying to scape a 55g.


I have to agree with this. A 18" deep tank can be very hard to scape and get good depth out of. Read through this article as it can be very helpful when attempting to create a scape. 

http://fish-etc.com/aquascaping-main/aquascaping-a-planted-aquarium

Sometimes you need to try a different approach when aqua scaping a tank with dimensions that are less than ideal. I have not seen too many 18" deep tanks that I thought had depth to the scape. I had a 55 gal. at one time and it was frustrating trying to create depth. It's hard to have a foreground, midground, and background with only 18" to work with. Here is one 55 gal. tank that I actually like the way they have the hardscape positioned.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=197579


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## thelub (Jan 4, 2013)

Have you considered a jungle scape? Go with height instead of depth.


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## Fish from Philly (May 28, 2013)

I should note the white and black gravel was by accident (mixed up the white gravel that came with tank with the eco-complete I put in) and will be covered up by natural looking sand. 

As for depth, I never knew the tanks I was looking for inspiration were do much deeper. With only 18" to work with, it certainly makes the 72" width a challenge to look right. I have read that article in the past and tried to mimic some of the techniques, I suppose just didn't get it quite right (at least not as professional as the ones submitted to international competition, hah!) 

Those links were very helpful, thanks! 

I have considered a jungle and opted against it since I want more room for discus to swim. I must say though, I really like most of your plant selection! I read you don't use CO2 and they still look really nice and healthy.


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## thelub (Jan 4, 2013)

I don't use CO2, but most if not all the plants I have are for the most part weeds and aren't very picky on their environment.


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## Fish from Philly (May 28, 2013)

I will remove gravel this weekend and replace with all sand with only the heavy planted areas with eco-complete layer.

Since I angled the dw to the back, it definitely helps with the depth. I'm going for an uprooted tree look with the branchy piece on far right being the canopy of the tree which I'll work with some java moss or java fern. I am thinking of leaving some eco-complete exposed in the spot where the tree was uprooted so it looks natural. Here's my latest and greatest:

http://imgur.com/a/TykQN



Still not quite there though and I'm wondering are rocks the correct size?

May look better when I plant large leaf in the front and small leaf stem in the back?


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## Farmer (Jan 30, 2013)

Philly,

Thank God you are removing that horrible black and white substrate!

A few things. I assume you have those blue pieces of tape there to tell you where the thirds are. But then you don't seem to be placing the wood etc to coincide with that. 

You do have that one piece of wood on the third line but placing the piece on the left of that kind of defeats the purpose because it is so much bulkier than the one on the third line. You need to realise that those wood chunks are very heavy (in terms of balance). One thing i have learned in my few scapes it that even though you may love a piece to death it can kill a scape. often it's not what you add but what you leave out that makes the scape. If it were me I'd be trying to find more of the other branchy style wood.

Your rocks look too placed instead of natural. They're kind of like a wall atm.

Sorry, I started this a few days ago and never finished.

I look forward to seeing what happens.

Linds


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## Fish from Philly (May 28, 2013)

Farmer - I definitely love the wood on the left side but have been thinking it is really out of place. Rather than laying down the large stump, I decided to use only 1 piece of it and some small pieces to create a stump with roots in the ground. What do you think now?

http://imgur.com/a/jj669#0


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## JerSaint (Oct 22, 2012)

I think you are on the right track. Adding or switching out some or your rocks with a darker colored ones may help add a little depth, if you place them towards the back of the tank. Also a jungle type scape that is heavily planted will add some dimension. It might be cool if you go with a higher growing carpet {shag} try dwarf sag. or Blyxa J. then a tall back round plant. Good Luck, I can't wait to see how it progresses!


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## Fish from Philly (May 28, 2013)

I considered the shag but since I want to have discus, I went with slow growing crpyt parva (temp and less maintenance)

I like the idea of the dark rocks in back. I was thinking of attaching some small leaved nana anubia to background rocks to create illusion of it being far away.


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## cah925 (May 18, 2007)

I like most of the rock placement except the ones mixed in the roots of the wood on the right side. I would take those out completely and put some small plants mixed in around the roots. Something small that would still allow the root to show - maybe downoi. The other rocks would look good with some higher growing carpet grass as JerSaint said. They wouldn't obscure the rocks, but perhaps accent them a little more naturally. 
Small thin leaved plants along the back like Mayaca fluvatillis, Didiplis diandra, Hottonia palustris, Rotalas (wallichii would be a good choice), maybe some Erio Type 2 also. Then use some larger leaved varieties in front of those stems, but keep them trimmed a little lower. Hygrophilas, Limnophilas, Ludwigias, and some Pogostemons would help the eyes see depth in the tank.


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## Fish from Philly (May 28, 2013)

Quick google search on the downoi shows it can grow without CO2 and up to 86 F which is great for my discus (future anyway) tank. Of the plants suggested, which would do best in these conditions?


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## Farmer (Jan 30, 2013)

Philly,

You have a hard job ahead of you I think. It's harder because you have fish and water in the tank already too. 

However you have a large tank so you can use the space to your advantage. I'd be trying to get things away from the sides of your tank i.e. the wood on the left. Keep it sure, but it isn't doing anything for the scape IMO where it is. 

I'd try and find some larger stones, but if you haven't got any then I think you need to get some height with them by maybe staking them (securely of course). Have an 'island' perhaps in the centre (but not symetrical so it looks centre).

Kind of like this approach.

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii234/ricardobrosa/MahIslandDay1.jpg

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/7256/89468788rm0.jpg

I think that way your white sand won't stand out so much as being odd. 

I'm certainly no expert when it comes to plants but the setups I have had so far have been inert gravel. It's not the easyest to get plants that will grow well in it. I have and success with those crypts (but use root tabs or such). To that end I'd be tending towards epiphytes. That way you can plant your rocks and wood. I like the long thin java fern and I think it would be useful in adding the height you need.

Linds


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## Fish from Philly (May 28, 2013)

Farmer - I have some larger stones but didn't think the scale was right so I put in the smaller ones. I probably will make adjustments 50 more times this year but that's the fun in this (as someone posted this to me in another forum). I got the idea of the white path from some award winning aquascapes. Remember that most of the sides will be filled with green once it grows in more. I have eco-complete under the sand so hopefully won't have to add any root tabs. I agree and took your advice and moved the large dw on the left. I changed it around a bit and think it works. One thing I'm considering is taking the thin leaf java fern off the top of the left wood. Maybe keep it "bare" or cover with java moss. 

Opinions and criticism are welcome. You guys have been great!

Updated with more plants: http://imgur.com/a/ThEtd


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## Jonny (Jun 5, 2013)

I think it is off to a great start. I hope it is ok to post the link here, this company in England are considered the No.1 for aquascaping, they have some incredible videos and articles as the fully aquascape massive tanks and give a wealth of great advice and tips. Might be worth checking out some of the videos if you have time;

http://www.thegreenmachineonline.com/articles/journals


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## Farmer (Jan 30, 2013)

Fish from Philly said:


> Farmer - I have some larger stones but didn't think the scale was right so I put in the smaller ones. I probably will make adjustments 50 more times this year but that's the fun in this (as someone posted this to me in another forum).


No worries, but IMO larger rocks have to be pretty big before they are too big.



> I got the idea of the white path from some award winning aquascapes. Remember that most of the sides will be filled with green once it grows in more.


Yeah, I don't mind white paths. Just it didn't like like a white path til you pointed it out. It's growing on me now. So much better with the left wood moved. The more plants you have in there the better it's looking. Now IMO it's only smallish changes. I think we need to get a bit more flow happening. At the moment it's like I want to cut it in two. The left two thirds I like on it's own. The right side needs to fit. 

I have done some work on your pic...









Can you put that right wood on an angle? 

I can't see if what I can see in that pic is the whole tank so I'm not sure where the third lines are. To me the left wood is in the right place but I'd be moving the branching piece to tie in with the right piece. It almost looks like your path/gap is in the centre. I'd be moving it a bit to the right. Under the 'new' placement of the branch. Perhaps move the two circled rocks to the left side, but don't put them in a line like you have them now. Let your plants define the path and the rocks just add texture. 

One more point. I like the use of red plants but I'd put the one on the left side close in on the right side of the large piece of wood. The reason being they pull focus and you don't want to loose what you gained by moving that wood there in the first place. Stick to your greens on the left there.




> I have eco-complete under the sand so hopefully won't have to add any root tabs.


I don't really know, that's not my area. I just thought it was plain sand. 



> One thing I'm considering is taking the thin leaf java fern off the top of the left wood. Maybe keep it "bare" or cover with java moss.


Yep. Definitely do that. I'd move it over to the other wood. 

To me people have awesome wood then cover the whole lot with moss etc. I don't see the sense in it myself. But that's just my personal preference. I like to see wood when it's there. 

Anyway, it's so much better now than the first pic I saw. I didn't know where to start. Keep going 

Linds


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## Jahn (Apr 26, 2013)

Jonny said:


> I think it is off to a great start. I hope it is ok to post the link here, this company in England are considered the No.1 for aquascaping, they have some incredible videos and articles as the fully aquascape massive tanks and give a wealth of great advice and tips. Might be worth checking out some of the videos if you have time;
> 
> http://www.thegreenmachineonline.com/articles/journals


 
Wow thanks for that link, I just got lost in watching that "Nature's Chaos" video!


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## cah925 (May 18, 2007)

I think you could keep the fern on the left piece of wood, but I would definitely move it lower, about 1/2 way down. I think it would look pretty neat having the wood sticking up above the growing mass of fern below.


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## lochaber (Jan 23, 2012)

I think having a black background, coupled with some tall plants in the back would halp to give the appearance of depth - sorta like it's vanishing into shadows, but that may not work real well with what you are doing.


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## Farmer (Jan 30, 2013)

cah925 said:


> I think you could keep the fern on the left piece of wood, but I would definitely move it lower, about 1/2 way down. I think it would look pretty neat having the wood sticking up above the growing mass of fern below.


Yeah. That would work. I was picturing plants on the ground doing that. 

Linds


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## Fish from Philly (May 28, 2013)

Thanks everyone. I'm going to mess around tomorrow during water change and post some pics. Then off to Miami for few days. Would be cool if I notice difference in 5 days. I keep hearing about black background and was recommended to use one shot or something. Apparently it rolls on and sticks to glass.


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## Jonny (Jun 5, 2013)

Jahn said:


> Wow thanks for that link, I just got lost in watching that "Nature's Chaos" video!


No worries at all, glad you enjoyed it too. I started watching them by accident after having my first ever tank a few months ago (That was just a higgldy piggldy of random stuff in it.) It totally got me into the concept of aquascaping and inspired me to give my first aquascaping attempt a go a few days ago.

I love how they take you through right from the start to the finish then show an update months later when it has grown in. I think my favourite so far was 'Altitude', though admittedly I liked it a bit more before the plants grew in so much (felt it made it lose a bit of the sense of scale.) I really hope to be able to go and visit them in person one day


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## xj4low (Jun 12, 2013)

It's definitely looking better.

Maybe something to keep in mind if you ever want to replace rocks or plants: while in one of my college painting classes years ago, I learned one trick to create depth is that warm colors (red/oranges) tend to pull forward while colder colors (blues/purples) push back. Worked out on flat paper/canvas so it's got to work for a shallow depth tank too. If you do find any replacement rocks, try placing light warmer colors up front and darker cooler colors to the rear.


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## Fish from Philly (May 28, 2013)

Back from vacation and the plants certainly have grown in some! I didn't replace any rocks but did remove a few and will likely leave it this way and plant some more. I took off the java fern "crown" and added to bottom of the left piece. 

So here's what I'm thinking, comments welcome!
1. Take off blue background and paint oneshot black
2. Attach some java fern to the middle "branch" to make it look like fallen tree
3. Move the right "stump" over a bit so that the branch looks like it fell off naturally
4. Maybe get some more anubia to outline the path for the left side (the right has enough from the stump)

http://imgur.com/a/ThEtd#0


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## TexasCichlid (Jul 12, 2011)

Black background will be nice. You might try some black posterboard as a test to make sure you like it before painting. Once the taller plants in the back fill in, the feeling of depth will be there I think. Make sure to keep lower growing plants in the fore and mid or that feeling will be lost.


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## Fish from Philly (May 28, 2013)

lochaber said:


> but that may not work real well with what you are doing.


Why not?


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## Fish from Philly (May 28, 2013)

Got the idea to use anubia nana vs java fern/moss to create the leaves for the tree. What do you think? Here is link:

http://www.aquascapingworld.com/threads/one-step-closer-60l.4837/

His work is simply amazing


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## Fish from Philly (May 28, 2013)

Lastest pics...not sure if the middle branch is placed right. I like the look when the branches go toward the back (pic 2-4) but I love the arch created when I set it with branches toward the front (pic 5 and 6). 

New pics here:
http://imgur.com/a/C5uvx#0


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## Fish from Philly (May 28, 2013)

Added anubia to the branch instead of java fern/moss. Also removed some of the rocks and planted cyrpt parva for carpet. Appreciate all the comments! Thanks

http://imgur.com/a/qRokP#0


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## Jahn (Apr 26, 2013)

the tank is looking much better, congrats!


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## Jahn (Apr 26, 2013)

xj4low said:


> It's definitely looking better.
> 
> Maybe something to keep in mind if you ever want to replace rocks or plants: while in one of my college painting classes years ago, I learned one trick to create depth is that warm colors (red/oranges) tend to pull forward while colder colors (blues/purples) push back. Worked out on flat paper/canvas so it's got to work for a shallow depth tank too. If you do find any replacement rocks, try placing light warmer colors up front and darker cooler colors to the rear.


that's a great suggestion by the way. i keep the red/orange petrified wood up front in my tank, and leave the more washed out pastel like colors for the back (white foamboard with background light). really helps with depth. if you have too bold a background in the back, it kinda washes out what's in front of it. thus, i'd go either all black for the background to make the foreground pop, or put the bolder colors up front and wash it out in the back, which i did for my tank here:


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## Fish from Philly (May 28, 2013)

Jahn said:


> that's a great suggestion by the way. i keep the red/orange petrified wood up front in my tank, and leave the more washed out pastel like colors for the back (white foamboard with background light). really helps with depth. if you have too bold a background in the back, it kinda washes out what's in front of it. thus, i'd go either all black for the background to make the foreground pop, or put the bolder colors up front and wash it out in the back, which i did for my tank here:


Yeah I agree. I'm pretty sure I will make background black just not sure if it is best to do with the $50 oneshot paint or if I can use some type of backer. I like the wood in your tank a lot! I have some for a 20 gallon I may set up eventually and will use the redder pieces in front. Thanks for tips guys


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