# Aqua Soil



## number1sixerfan (Nov 10, 2006)

I have a 72g bowfront and I have malaya aqua soil. It is great for the plants, but my clown loaches make a mess with it. They skim the soil with their bodies and then a wave of aqua soil goes up into the water. It makes my water cloudy on a daily basis. I have a fluval 405. How do you all deal with these types of problems with aqua soil? I kind of feel like I should have went with sand or gravel.


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## wood (Nov 15, 2006)

Unfortunately, give the loaches to your LFS. Thats just my opinion. 

Ryan


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## number1sixerfan (Nov 10, 2006)

wood said:


> Unfortunately, give the loaches to your LFS. Thats just my opinion.
> 
> Ryan



I just cannot see why Aqua soil would be so highly rated then, because that means that I would have to get rid of almost all bottomdwellers as my blue rams do the same thing. Aqua soil is good for the plants but everyone around here talks about it as if it had no downsides to it.

I like my loaches to much, so I'll just cover the aqua soil with sand or gravel.

Thanks.


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## wood (Nov 15, 2006)

Are you using the powder type?


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## sandiegoryu (Feb 15, 2006)

Also I've heard that after a year or so the soil turns mushy and you need to replace it. Something like that.


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## number1sixerfan (Nov 10, 2006)

wood said:


> Are you using the powder type?


No it is the standard type. And i can see how it would turn into mush in the future, but I do not uproot my plants to often so I thought it would not be a problem. However, I had no idea how light the stuff is, it is more like dirt than soil. Don't get me wrong, I like how my plants are doing, but I just wish I knew that before I spent the money on the 3 bags of it.


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## Thomas S (Nov 9, 2006)

HI, I have a question was your water clear when you you first set the tank up . The water in my tank has been a cloudy mess using aquasoil even after three weeks and lots of water changes. Its very disheartening after reading the rave reviews here about this product $$$. I've tried straight RO/DI water,Tap water,Tap water mixed with RO, and My UV light on this tank. No luck it still looks like a smokey bar. I'll give it a few more weeks then this substrate is coming out of the tank. 
Really there has to be a common denominator as to why some tanks cloud and others don't. 





number1sixerfan said:


> No it is the standard type. And i can see how it would turn into mush in the future, but I do not uproot my plants to often so I thought it would not be a problem. However, I had no idea how light the stuff is, it is more like dirt than soil. Don't get me wrong, I like how my plants are doing, but I just wish I knew that before I spent the money on the 3 bags of it.


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## Justintoxicated (Oct 18, 2006)

Mine looks horible as well, if I move one thing the entire tank clouds and I have to do a 90% water change or 2 to get it to clear up, the filter does no good at getting rid of the smoke like clouds in the water. I have not had it 100% clear but it's only been a few days. If I can't find a solution I'm going to replace with Eco or flourite or anything else that does not have this probelm and cut my losses.


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## saltura (Aug 23, 2006)

I just replaced my flourite with Aqua Soil (regular) and mine turned out fine. When adding water to your tank did you pour the water directly into the tank or did you pour the water onto a plate? That's what I did. I've also got Clown Loaches in my tank too but they pretty much leave the Aqua Soil alone. I do notice that when I'm planting that a little cloud forms but dissipates after a few seconds.


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## Justintoxicated (Oct 18, 2006)

saltura said:


> I just replaced my flourite with Aqua Soil (regular) and mine turned out fine. When adding water to your tank did you pour the water directly into the tank or did you pour the water onto a plate? That's what I did. I've also got Clown Loaches in my tank too but they pretty much leave the Aqua Soil alone. I do notice that when I'm planting that a little cloud forms but dissipates after a few seconds.


I trickled mine down driftwood...


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## saltura (Aug 23, 2006)

hmmm... you could have possibly gotten a bag of bad aqua soil... i've read that some customers have gotten a bag or two of bad soil. i believe the bacteria in the soil died because of a bad batch or a bag that had a small opening and allowed some air into the bag. whatda think? do some research on this thread... i think that the customers called ADA and they shipped them replacement bags. good luck.


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## Justintoxicated (Oct 18, 2006)

Maybe,but I'm thinking I'd rather just get a refund and Eco instead though. I don't know why dead bacteria would cause dusty smoke like clouding, I think it's just the way the substrate is. If you can mush it in your fingers like mud, I don't see how it could NOT cloud the water.


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## Marc (Oct 13, 2004)

Aqua soil is a very soft substrate compared to flourite or eco- usually that cloudiness is from planting and or probably a combination of a bacterial bloom. When you stick the plants in the soil, some of it can break apart and when you fill, you get the cloud.

I get better results when I fill the tank slowly.

For those people having problems with cloudiness- what kind of filter are you running and what size tanks?


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## number1sixerfan (Nov 10, 2006)

I'm using a fluval 405 and I have a 72g tank. I used a plated when filling the tank. It was clear until I planted. However it cleared up afterwards. I have a white bacterial bloom, but I just started the tank so I am thinking that that's the reason. Whenever the clowns dash to the other side of the tank it looks like they are on a baseball field. lol It is kind of in my tank, so I think returning it will be out of the question. I am not going to take it out rebag it and send it back. lol Thanks guys.


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## Justintoxicated (Oct 18, 2006)

I have mine in an aquapod 24 gallon with the built in filter. I do not appear to have a bacteria bloom just cloudy water from the substrate. Bacteria bloom looks different. This looks more like dust.


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## Marc (Oct 13, 2004)

Change the water a few times and it should go away on its own. AS is really good stuff and you should not be discouraged from using it because of the cloudiness. Have you ever seen the cloud that flourite can leave when you first use it? Its not as bad as AS.


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## ringram (Jan 19, 2005)

If there's nothign actually wrong with your bag of AS, I think you just weren't gentle enough when planting and pouring water. Like the other person said, pour the water into a plate, or something to break up the force of the water stream. Also, I've seen plenty of people run a separate cannister (if you have a spare) or another filter to help mechanically remove the cloudiness faster.


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## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

I dont think the problem has to do with how you poured the water in if its the movement of clown loaches that stirs it up... thanks for bringing this up. I had my heart set on AquaSoil and didnt mind spending the money to get 'the best' but if this is common problem I may have to rethink my substrate. My tank will have 6 clowns, 8 zebras, and 3 yoyo's. My current flourite substrate doesnt have a problem with the loaches.


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## number1sixerfan (Nov 10, 2006)

Everyone please be assured that this was not my first time pouring water into a tank. lol I have used the plate method plenty(well maybe not plenty lol) times before. Also, my kitchen sink also takes a while to fill up the tank due to how slow the water comes out(slight build up in the drain). So I assure you that that could not have been the problem. I am 100% sure. Especially because the sinks water pressure. 

I have no problem with the bacterial bloom. That is temporary and the purigen in my filter will help take care of that. There is only dirt appearing in the water after the clowns dig or come in contact with it. That's what I am concerned with. I am not giving up on it totally(it is doing wonders with the plants already), but if I had to choose between the clowns and the soil it would definitely be the soil that gets the boot.

Thanks once again!


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## Justintoxicated (Oct 18, 2006)

I just checked my tank and it is still cloudy but not as bad as when I slightly re-positioned a piece of driftwood this morning.

however all my plants are melting and I have no idea why (onyl been in there for 2 days). some of these plants came out of my other thanks and some I got at a local plant swap. 

I guess I will start pulling them all out. Not sure the substrate is to blame but I have never had this problem before and theres nothing much different about this tank other than I don't have CO2 yet and it has AS. I put the same plants from thr swap in my flourite and Eco tanks and there is no signs of melting. In fact they look great.

Well I'm about to go stir up the cloudyness again because I have to get this large mass of melting plants out.

I have 200 ml of purigen in my filter for my 24 gallon as well and it is turning yellow fast!


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## boink (Nov 27, 2006)

mmmm i jus added my ADA into my tank and a bit of water and its a little cloudy....i removed all teh floating organic matter and jus seeing if itll go down


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## Justintoxicated (Oct 18, 2006)

I just remembered another important parameter that could be causing my plants to die, the temp was about 83 deg.

Both bags of Purigen had turned yellow, at least on one side, another day or 2and they will need to be changed at this rate, but it looks like they are doing a good job.

The substrate did not cloud my water up as much as I removed dead plants and planted in more plants from my other tanks. This is definately a good sign!


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## wood (Nov 15, 2006)

I have used Aquasoil in 2 tanks without any problems. I have heard just a couple of cases where there were bad bags. 

Aquasoil is very light, so having turbulent bottom dwelling inhabitants is asking for cloudiness. 

Remember that Aquasoil is meant for planted tanks to help plant growth. If you look at almost all of the tanks that Amano has set up using Aquasoil you can't even see the soil, it is all planted. ADA sells decorative sand for the portions of the substrate that are not going to be planted. You can use Aquasoil as decoration, a lot of people do, but not for fish that naturally stir up substrate. It is like using dirt instead asphalt on an expressway.

Clown loaches have massive tails and create a lot of turbulence when swimming, especially when swimming fast. That combined with unplanted aquasoil is going to be bad. 

Hope that helps.

-Ryan


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## crazy loaches (Sep 29, 2006)

wood said:


> That combined with unplanted aquasoil is going to be bad.


Are you saying that with clown loaches and aquasoil you may be ok if its really heavilty planted to keep the aquasoil down?


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## number1sixerfan (Nov 10, 2006)

Yea that is how it seems. I am just wondering what to put on top of it. Black sand, or white sand, etc.


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## sandiegoryu (Feb 15, 2006)

I've read many many thread saying not top Aquasoil with sand because then as time goes by, your Aquasoil will be on top and sand on the bottom, which has no benefits.


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## number1sixerfan (Nov 10, 2006)

sandiegoryu said:


> I've read many many thread saying not top Aquasoil with sand because then as time goes by, your Aquasoil will be on top and sand on the bottom, which has no benefits.


Yea, and I understand that, I just do not have a choice. Either top it, or have the loaches keep the tank looking dirty due to the soil. My plants actually have the soil's residue all over them. It makes them look dusty. 

So I guess I am just going to take out a majority of the soil and tightly pack one layer of sand on top of it. I'll then add another larger layer of sand. I understand that this will take away the benefits of the soil, but I do not know what else to do.


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## xcooperx (Jun 21, 2006)

Justin where did you buy your bags of AS, did you already call ADA or the shop where you buy the bags about this problem? I think you have to call them and let them know what is happening on your tank before its too late, Time is running out.


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## wood (Nov 15, 2006)

crazy loaches said:


> Are you saying that with clown loaches and aquasoil you may be ok if its really heavilty planted to keep the aquasoil down?


What I mean is that attempting to leave bare Aquasoil with Clown Loaches won't have a good outcome.

You have to remember that Aquasoil is just that, SOIL. You can use it as decoration, but when you have turbulent fish it won't be a good idea. 

If you plant bare Aquasoil with Glosso or HC then it will spread and hold the Aquasoil down, that may help with Clown Loaches. 

-Ryan


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## wood (Nov 15, 2006)

number1sixerfan said:


> Yea, and I understand that, I just do not have a choice. Either top it, or have the loaches keep the tank looking dirty due to the soil. My plants actually have the soil's residue all over them. It makes them look dusty.
> 
> So I guess I am just going to take out a majority of the soil and tightly pack one layer of sand on top of it. I'll then add another larger layer of sand. I understand that this will take away the benefits of the soil, but I do not know what else to do.


This is what I would do if I were in your situation: Instead of topping off the Aquasoil with sand but a "border around the area that you wish to top off with sand. A border meaning a piece of cardboard or something similar seperating the area you wish to top off from the surrounding areas. Once you set up the border make sure you secure it with tape as well as rocks inside the border so that when you start to remove the Aquasoil the border doesnt move. You are basically quarrying the Aquasoil out of a specific section of the substrate and replacing it with sand. You can then use that extra Aquasoil you removed from that section to create slopes in your tank, which will create some depth.

Once most of the AS is removed (you don't need to remove every granual, just most of it) replace the missing section with the sand you picked. Once you put enough sand in the empty section start to remove the rocks that you used to secure the border with, the sand will then help hold the border up. Make sure that the sand you replace it with is level with the outter AS on the other side of the border or else the outter AS will cover the sand. When you have leveled the sand slowly remove the border. 

If you did this right you will LOVE the results. It will be a really cool beach effect. You also won't be wasting AS and like others mentioned the sand won't slowly settle to the bottom causing a bad looking substrate. Use that extra AS to create slopes, or whatever else you want. BE CREATIVE 

Good luck. Let us know how it goes if you try this. Yes it sounds difficult but if you do it right and don't half ass it you will love the results, I promise.

-Ryan


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## number1sixerfan (Nov 10, 2006)

wood said:


> This is what I would do if I were in your situation: Instead of topping off the Aquasoil with sand but a "border around the area that you wish to top off with sand. A border meaning a piece of cardboard or something similar seperating the area you wish to top off from the surrounding areas. Once you set up the border make sure you secure it with tape as well as rocks inside the border so that when you start to remove the Aquasoil the border doesnt move. You are basically quarrying the Aquasoil out of a specific section of the substrate and replacing it with sand. You can then use that extra Aquasoil you removed from that section to create slopes in your tank, which will create some depth.
> 
> Once most of the AS is removed (you don't need to remove every granual, just most of it) replace the missing section with the sand you picked. Once you put enough sand in the empty section start to remove the rocks that you used to secure the border with, the sand will then help hold the border up. Make sure that the sand you replace it with is level with the outter AS on the other side of the border or else the outter AS will cover the sand. When you have leveled the sand slowly remove the border.
> 
> ...


If I do this it will not eliminate my problem. There will still be an area in the tank that is purely aquasoil where the loaches could dig up. Unless I am misundertanding you. Thanks though.


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## wood (Nov 15, 2006)

number1sixerfan said:


> If I do this it will not eliminate my problem. There will still be an area in the tank that is purely aquasoil where the loaches could dig up. Unless I am misundertanding you. Thanks though.


You must not have understood what I was saying...

Put a border around the ENTIRE AREA you wish to cover with sand. Follow the instructions I wrote to remove the Aquasoil and replace with the sand you choose. If you try to cover the AS with sand you will be wasting AS and like everyone said eventually the sand will mix with the AS as it decends through the AS granules.

I figure if you are already going to cover the area with sand you might as well do it this way so that it will be the most beneficial.

Don't forget though, the border you are creating is basically a wall. It will go all the way into the substrate down to the bottom of the tank. If you have any knowledge of bridge building this is similar to what they do with they build a bridge in water. They segregate the area they are going to use, drain the water, and replace with concrete, etc. Amano uses the border method when setting up new tanks using both AS and Decorative Sand.

-Ryan


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## number1sixerfan (Nov 10, 2006)

wood said:


> You must not have understood what I was saying...
> 
> Put a border around the ENTIRE AREA you wish to cover with sand. Follow the instructions I wrote to remove the Aquasoil and replace with the sand you choose. If you try to cover the AS with sand you will be wasting AS and like everyone said eventually the sand will mix with the AS as it decends through the AS granules.
> 
> ...


I understand. I may try it. The only thing is that I like re-aquascaping every know and then, moving things around and this sounds a little permanent. I'll think it over, thanks for the help.


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## Thomas S (Nov 9, 2006)

I recently called ADA and spoke with a rep about the cloudy water issues. He suggested that I pack the tank with plants and the water would clear up. I installed my co2 tank and planted a bunch of plants in the aquarium and the water is indeed clearing up nicely. The water should be crystal clear in a few days.

number1sixerfan maybe if you plant some plants that completely cover the substrate your loaches wont dig up the soil.


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## Justintoxicated (Oct 18, 2006)

Mine has started to clear up some as well but it is still cloudy after I redid the hard scape a bit. 

I have a 3ppm amonia spike with 1000mg of purigen in the filter on my 24 gallon. I don't seem to be getting any nitrite either even though I gave the tank sponge squeezes and bio media from my canister filter. it's only been about a week.


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