# Phosphates over 10ppm :-(



## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

FYI I add well over 15 ppm a week of PO4 as KH2PO4 to all my aquariums.










This is in addition to the fish food.

Check out UKAPS.org also.

They will hop in and help you more specifically.


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

plantbrain said:


> Check out UKAPS.org also.
> 
> They will hop in and help you more specifically.


We have members from all over the world, including the UK. And there's nothing country-specific about Gozzy's problem that would be better served by a UK forum.

So while I'm sure that forum is nice, immediately referring him to another forum on his first post, instead of trying to help, _isn't_ very nice.


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

Gozzy,

How much Plantbrain doses is really irrelevant to your inquiry. If the plants are consuming it as fast as it's added, the tank levels could be less than 10ppm. In a recent post, he said that he aims for 2-5ppm tank level.

I have seen a few others with out-of-control phosphate levels who have persistent algae problems; who have eliminated all other possibilities, and only found help using phosphate removal media.

However, these seem to be the exception, not the norm. I also have over 10ppm in many of my tanks, and don't have algae problems.

So before you believe expensive phosphate removal media is your only solution, you too should explore all other possibilities.

First is light. I believe that's a T5HO fixture. What is the distance between your bulbs and substrate?

It's quite possible you have a high light tank, without also supplying the necessary requirements for a high light tank; which include CO2, and heavy and complete fertilization. Oddly enough, despite my high phosphate levels, I have to dose extra. Include details on your CO2 (if any) and fertilization regimen as well so we can get a complete picture of what's going on.

Also, what kind of algae are you seeing? If possible, post some pictures of the algae, and the tank in general.


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## tetra73 (Aug 2, 2011)

Are your plants growing? Seeing new growths? BBA? If none of the above, high phosphate isn't an issue. According to the EI dosing, I thought the N to P ratio is 10 to 1. If OP phosphate level is above 10 ppm, beyond what the test kit can register, N should be around 100 ppm? I would think that that's kind of high. Obviously, the OP N level may not be that high. 

I have luck with Phoslock. Put them in the canister filter. Makes sure your source water don't have any phosphate. My level, since I began to test them about couple of weeks ago, was beyond 20 ppm. Even my diluted test sample is showing 10 ppm. Then, I began to use phoslock on my filter as well as treating my water change with it. Right now, it is consistently at 5 ppm. This could be a coincidence but some of my supposedly stunt micro swords are growing again. I will continue to keep it around 5 ppm since I don't notice any negative effects on my plants. While you are at it, check your nitrate level too.


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## gozzy (Mar 28, 2011)

Hi and thanks for the replies 

My substrate is 28cm from the Light which is as you said a T5HO Unit. I have been turning the 24w special plant bulb off as it slows the algae down but after a big gravel/filter clean I'm running them both.

I don't have any Co2 currently (I am looking around tho  but I'm adding EasyCarb @ 1ml each day.

Nutrient wise I have Sera Florena which I haven't used regularly due to the problems I'm having and was also advised by LFS that the substrate would provide the nutrients?

I don't have any pictures of it as I am cleaning it off daily but it looks like green hair algae?
I've attached a picture took a few mins ago but its just been cleaned so not much debris 

The plants are growing but keep getting covered in algae and brown slime? so they will soon start to disintegrate :-( I have in the tank 7 Neons and 2 Panda Cory's and my levels are:

Nitrates - 5, 
Ammonia - 0, 
KH - 5, 
GH 5, 
PH Day 7.6, 
PH Night 6.6

I also use RO water from LFS which tests as 0 for Phosphates. I'm currently using Sera Phosvec granules which don't seem to be working however I can only test upto 10ppm on the kit I got so it could be. The other issue is I'm not sure I have enough in the filter, the Fluval U2 doesn't give you much room :-(

Any advice more than welcome, this is my first attempt with ADA Soil and is proper annoying me know ;-)


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## JasonG75 (Mar 1, 2011)

Dont think you have to worry much about some of those plants because they will melt regardless. Some arent Aquatic.


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

Ouch, yes... There's a lighting problem. 

Even with only one bulb running, that's well above even the high light category due to the stout nature of your tank; and that's a recipe for algae even if you had CO2. See the lighting chart here:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/lighting/105774-par-vs-distance-t5-t12-pc.html

What you'll need to do is hang your light, rather than letting it rest on the tank. One bulb, about 45cm above the substrate. If that's not an option, maybe you can block 60% of the light using window screen or some other material. Or maybe even shop for a new fixture. This one really is overkill for your tank.

When you get CO2, you'll be able to increase your light, but not to the original levels; even for one bulb.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

DarkCobra said:


> We have members from all over the world, including the UK. And there's nothing country-specific about Gozzy's problem that would be better served by a UK forum.
> 
> So while I'm sure that forum is nice, immediately referring him to another forum on his first post, instead of trying to help, _isn't_ very nice.


Wales is the UK, local groups can help addressed things like where to source ferts, who to buy from, local clubs etc etc. Plants are mostly non aquatic, they will need to buy some and the USA is not the best place.
THINK GLOBAL, SHOP/GET INVOLVED LOCAL. Local level is always a good thing to suggest members to become involved with, it'd be like reading a newbie from SF and not telling them to check out SFBAAPS. 
What the frick are you talking about?

I did help there as well as............show BEYOND ANY DOUBT...........that PO4 was not the answer they where looking for, which is quite a bit more help than the LFS. I'm not going to solve everything in one single post, that rarely occurs.
As far as saying ANYTHING about me personally, keep that opinion to yourself, it's a bad assumption on your part and way off topic.


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## JasonG75 (Mar 1, 2011)

plantbrain said:


> Wales is the UK, *local groups can help addressed things like where to source ferts*, who to buy from etc.
> 
> I did help show that PO4 was not the answer they where looking for, *which is quite a bit more help than the LFS*.
> 
> As far as saying ANYTHING about me personally, keep that opinion to yourself, it's off topic, bad karma, and does not make the OP feel too good when a tiff between two posters occurs:icon_idea


+1
Nicely put.


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

I don't know which version of Plantbrain's response to respond to. At least I have no more bad karma. :hihi:

But the original post remains, which boils down to nothing more than "you're wrong, try another forum if you want answers". No attempt to provide the right answer, no questions asked. And no explanation given for being referred elsewhere in the original message, which is where it should have been.

It read and felt unfriendly. A poor first impression for this forum. I would be more offended if I joined a forum, immediately received that, and no one spoke up about it. So I did.

And besides, Gozzy asked for help _here_. We are fully capable of helping with most issues, and we did so after asking the right questions.

No reason to post if you're not willing to put in some minimal effort to be helpful, just pass and let someone else take the question.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Sometimes we provide incorrect information, which isn't much help and can lead to ignoring real problems. (That makes it advisable to look at more than one response to a problem.) High phosphate isn't going to be a problem until you get considerably above 10 ppm. Phosphate doesn't lead to algae in planted tanks, anyway, and the ratio of N to P is irrelevant. One issue not yet addressed is that phosphate test kits are rarely very accurate, and aren't accurate at all if not calibrated first.

When we run into algae problems, the first thing to look at is how much light we have. In many, if not most cases that is the problem. In this particular case excessive light is almost certain to be the problem, especially when no CO2 is being used. T5HO lights need to be roughly 60 cm above the substrate even with a single bulb fixture, unless the reflector is very poor. Any closer and you will be constantly working to keep enough CO2 available to the plants, and the tank and all of its systems clean, as well as making sure the water circulation in the tank is very good, and never obstructed by heavy plant growth, and the water surface covered with ripples to keep the water well oxygenated. All of that can quickly kill one's enthusiasm for the hobby.


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

Ouch! forum got bruised all the way around reading this one.

Welcome to the site gozzy and I hope to see you posting again.
We've got some very knowledgeable members here and more than willing to help.
Rarely do treads read bumpy as this one does.


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## jl209 (Mar 2, 2006)

Welcome to tpt gozzy. In addition to adjusting your light and adding c02 you will need a more complete fertilizer routine. I believe the ferts you are using are just micro nutrients. You need macro and micro nutrients dosed regularly on a high light tank. Do a search on the estimative index style dosing. This method uses dry fertilizers which are like 50x cheaper than what you are using. Google dry aquarium fertilizers to find something in your area. You can also use a yeast based diy c02 setup on a tank that small until you can afford a pressurized setup. They are really simple to make. Goodluck!


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## gozzy (Mar 28, 2011)

I joined this forum without realising it was a US site, I was just looking for quick help so googled and ended up here.

I agree that speaking with more local people can be beneficial for obvious reasons. However, after the replies to my post I have received some very good advice which has set me in the right direction. 

The comments from JasonG75 were pointless and if you have the time to reply then use your skills??? in a more productive way. :angryfire

On a lighter note the Hagen Light allows me to have it sitting 4in above the water line (3.5 in from top of tank). I'm only going to use one bulb from now on and I'm going to use the yeast method initially as advised.

Thanks all for the advice


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## JasonG75 (Mar 1, 2011)

gozzy said:


> I
> The comments from JasonG75 were pointless and if you have the time to reply then use your skills??? in a more productive way. :angryfire


 
MY skills were productive STATING that you have atleast 1 plant in that tank that ISNT aquatic. Attached I used my skills to indicate 1 the Fern that isnt aquatic and 2 the other that appears to look like some Bamboo.
HND


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