# Red Cherry Shrimp HELP!!!!



## ravensgate (May 24, 2012)

How did you acclimate them?


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## Bermyguy (Apr 3, 2012)

Oh no! Well, you have come to the right place.


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## Elppan (Aug 21, 2012)

ravensgate said:


> How did you acclimate them?


I knew I forgot to add something.
Over a period of 3-4 hours I slowly added in water into their bag. About 2 hours in, I removed about 50% of the water in the bag, then slowly added more water in again. At the end I broke open the bag and let them swim out. They seemed find for the first hour or so.

Should I do water changes and put in my r/o water?


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## ravensgate (May 24, 2012)

Hmmm...sounds like you acclimated them right. I don't think even GH or KH and TDS would kill them so quickly...only other thing I can think of is copper. Do you have any copper pipes in the house or anything like that???

Don't cry...I have lots and LOTS of RCS/PFR babies right now...let's get your water figured out and I'll see what I can do to help you try again.


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## ravensgate (May 24, 2012)

Oh, what kind of plants do you have in there? was there ANY other life in there before (snails, fauna, etc?)


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## Elppan (Aug 21, 2012)

ravensgate said:


> Hmmm...sounds like you acclimated them right. I don't think even GH or KH and TDS would kill them so quickly...only other thing I can think of is copper. Do you have any copper pipes in the house or anything like that???
> 
> Don't cry...I have lots and LOTS of RCS/PFR babies right now...let's get your water figured out and I'll see what I can do to help you try again.


As far as I am aware of no? But I honestly have no idea. it's a newer house, so I'd assume yes? erm.... :icon_redf
I took out about maybe 1/2 a gallon of tank water, and put in R/O water, and they seemed to move around a bit... should I add more in?

I get so upset, I love animals, hell when my first 30 cent ghost shrimp died I cried. I try and give them the best life they can possibly have... I did not buy them to kill them, and then make teeny shrimp scampi... :icon_cry::icon_cry::icon_cry::icon_cry::icon_cry:


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## ravensgate (May 24, 2012)

If they are moving more with the RO water I'd add more in, but do you have anything to remineralize it? fluval shrimp minerals, etc/?


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## Elppan (Aug 21, 2012)

ravensgate said:


> Oh, what kind of plants do you have in there? was there ANY other life in there before (snails, fauna, etc?)


Dwarf hair grass. Bacopa (the giant kind) a Crypto, java moss, and some ugly anacharis that is floating. Basically what I have in all my tanks. Oh, and a Marimo ball


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## Elppan (Aug 21, 2012)

ravensgate said:


> If they are moving more with the RO water I'd add more in, but do you have anything to remineralize it? fluval shrimp minerals, etc/?


I do not, and I have no idea if petsmart has any. It's the closest store to me. My LFS is already closed, and also about 40 min from me.


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## ravensgate (May 24, 2012)

Petsmart typically won't sell it. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....my only worry with the RO or DI is lack of minerals. What sort of substrate do you have in with them? Sorry so many questions, just trying to help/


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## Elppan (Aug 21, 2012)

ravensgate said:


> Petsmart typically won't sell it. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....my only worry with the RO or DI is lack of minerals. What sort of substrate do you have in with them? Sorry so many questions, just trying to help/


No ANYTHING to help. If my life story would help I'd tell it!

I have a small layer of Miracle Gro potting soil, with a cap of Carib Sea Tahitian Moon sand, and some cheapo top fin aquarium gravel. It's the same I have in my other tank that is not cycled. My first tank is my community tank of Ghost Shrimp, Cory Catfish, African Dwarf Frogs, and now Harlequin Rasboras.

That just has some cheap sand, and ahh, one of those fancy plant substrates that I can never remember what it's called.


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## Elppan (Aug 21, 2012)

Ah, one of the 'dead' ones, moved a little when I put some r/o water in the cup he was in. The first one, the glass basher is def. dead. :-/
I added back in the one that seizured, when I added in more R/o water. I'd say I have about 50% r/o water in there right now.


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## Elppan (Aug 21, 2012)

Also, one of them just swam to the top, looks like it's trying to climb out. Should I change more of the water? Gahhh. I'm feeling like a murderer... I only kill baby humans and mosquitoes... (One of those may be a joke)


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## Qwedfg (Mar 7, 2012)

Elppan said:


> Also, one of them just swam to the top, looks like it's trying to climb out. Should I change more of the water? Gahhh. I'm feeling like a murderer... I only kill baby humans and mosquitoes... (One of those may be a joke)



Do you have a gH reading? I tested my water before getting shrimp and it turns out I have a gh of about 1 out of the tap. Im not sure if that would kill them that quickly though. I have fire red cherries and I have found them to be extremely hardy. They started getting berried and having shrimplets from their first molt in my tank. 

Honestly having two sets of shrimp die and your readings arent coming out crazy I would say try another place as that could be the source of your problems. If you get them locally make sure they have been there for a while so you dont get any that are on the way out. I would recommend ordering off the forums though. I have had nothing but good results ordering off the forums. I got my shrimp here from a guy named reefdive and his service and quality was 56000 times better than any local fish store.


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## Elppan (Aug 21, 2012)

Qwedfg said:


> Do you have a gH reading? I tested my water before getting shrimp and it turns out I have a gh of about 1 out of the tap. Im not sure if that would kill them that quickly though. I have fire red cherries and I have found them to be extremely hardy. They started getting berried and having shrimplets from their first molt in my tank.
> 
> Honestly having two sets of shrimp die and your readings arent coming out crazy I would say try another place as that could be the source of your problems. If you get them locally make sure they have been there for a while so you dont get any that are on the way out. I would recommend ordering off the forums though. I have had nothing but good results ordering off the forums. I got my shrimp here from a guy named reefdive and his service and quality was 56000 times better than any local fish store.


I have a pool, and some pool test strips. They measure Total Hardness, and Total Alkalinity. I know test strips aren't ideal, but should I test those?
I'm assuming they'd work in a fish tank too.


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## ravensgate (May 24, 2012)

Ok, are you completely new to shrimp??? Are you sure these aren't just molts? Anytime you add shrimp to new parameters they can molt. Is it a pinkish dead body or does it look see through?


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## Elppan (Aug 21, 2012)

100ppm Total Hardness
40ppm Alkalinity

Those are not entirely accurate, because the scale on pool strips is WAAAY different.

it goes from 0-100 for hardness
and 0-40 for Alk. as the first jumps. sooo, ahh it's somewhere between 0 and those numbers.


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## Elppan (Aug 21, 2012)

ravensgate said:


> Ok, are you completely new to shrimp??? Are you sure these aren't just molts? Anytime you add shrimp to new parameters they can molt. Is it a pinkish dead body or does it look see through?


Nope, it's dead shrimp. I've had Ghost Shrimp for awhile. 
I wish they were just molts :-/


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## Qwedfg (Mar 7, 2012)

Ok so after re-reading your post it seems they are all dying within 48 hours of introduction. I think what you need to do is buy a gH test and/or a TDS meter. There is something funky going on with your water (maybe copper?) or something really wrong with the LFS stock that is causing this. Losing them after such a short time when buying locally is pretty shocking considering how hardy RCS are. If you are going to use RO/DI water you need to make sure you can adjust the parameters using something like fluval shrimp mineral supplement.


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## Elppan (Aug 21, 2012)

What little hope I had with the water change is fading fast. The 3 in the tank have stopped moving again. :icon_cry::icon_cry::icon_cry::icon_cry:

I wish I knew what was wrong. I feel horrible and want to keep these cuties so badly.


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## Elppan (Aug 21, 2012)

Qwedfg said:


> Ok so after re-reading your post it seems they are all dying within 48 hours of introduction. I think what you need to do is buy a gH test and/or a TDS meter. There is something funky going on with your water (maybe copper?) or something really wrong with the LFS stock that is causing this. Losing them after such a short time when buying locally is pretty shocking considering how hardy RCS are. If you are going to use RO/DI water you need to make sure you can adjust the parameters using something like fluval shrimp mineral supplement.


Would something like copper cause crazy swimming, lethargy, and seizures? I want to do everything I possibly can to make a happy safe habitat for the shrimp. I figured if it was safe for my ghost shrimp it should be safe for the red cherry shrimp?
I will do everything, including buying expensive magical fairy water blessed by unicorns if I have to.


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## acitydweller (Dec 28, 2011)

Sounds like shock from a tds swing. If you dont have one already, get a tds meter.

Also get a reading on your nitrates/nitrides and ammonia. your soil might be leaching...

I'd also suggest getting the temps into the low to mid 70s to lessen the stress on acclimation. A more proper way of introducing shrimp is through Drip acclimation. Run a airline hose from the tank down to a container holding the new shrimp. Tie a knot or two to minimize the flow to a drip a second or two seconds. do this for several hours. never put any of the old water into your tank as you may introduce parasites or nasties from the LFS.

getting a handle of their water parameters from the LFS might be a good idea. GH and KH ought to be tested.


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## Elppan (Aug 21, 2012)

I hope I can get them to live, just ordered:
API GH and KH Test Kit
API Copper Test Kit
Fluval Shrimp Mineral Supplement, 4-Ounce

With one day shipping from Amazon. I hope they hold on until I can retest the water and hopefully save them... if not, I suppose I'll be ready... :icon_cry:


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## rocksmom (Mar 6, 2012)

To test if it's something in the actual tank, you could move them to a clean container of fresh, conditioned tap water.


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## Nubster (Aug 9, 2011)

Copper pipes won't leach copper, enough to kill shrimp anyways. I have copper pipes and no issues. The water moves through the pipes too fast. If you want to be extra cautious, you can let the water run a couple minutes before filling your bucket, that way any water that has been sitting in the pipes is flushed out.

Not sure if I missed it, what are you using for filtration? Coming to the surface can be a sign of poor O2 in the water, or that there's something nasty in there and the shrimp are trying to get away from it.

Is the tank new? Used? If used, did you buy it used? If so, it's possible the previous owner used copper meds and the tank is contaminated. I'd also go with the suggestion of taking the shrimp out and placing them in a different container and see how they do. I haven't done much reading on the subject, but I don't think I'd trust using Miracle Grow potting soil in my tank.


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## Qwedfg (Mar 7, 2012)

As said above unless you use well water that is contaminated or previous owners used copper treatment it is unlikely its copper. How long has your tank been set up for? I use MG organic potting soil with no problems. Soil takes a little while to cycle from what I experienced so maybe its still decaying? I doubt this as well because from what you have said the readings are at 0. I will be curious to see what the GH test comes out to. Maybe your water is super hard??


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## rodcuda (Jul 25, 2012)

Did you use Organic Miricle grow? Is there a chance you used the type with fertilizer in it?


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## Elppan (Aug 21, 2012)

rodcuda said:


> Did you use Organic Miricle grow? Is there a chance you used the type with fertilizer in it?


No chance, it's the organic choice potting soil. I am going to be setting up some Walstad bowls, and it's a very small layer. I work in a hardware store garden department, I know exactly what I'm buying.


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## Elppan (Aug 21, 2012)

rocksmom said:


> To test if it's something in the actual tank, you could move them to a clean container of fresh, conditioned tap water.


I tossed them in an acrylic pitcher with r/o water, and water from my community tank. I also tossed in one of my Marimo balls and a chunk of an algae tab. 
I hope they'll be okay. 

I only have 2 left, one did pass away in the night. :-( one seems okay-ish, the other seems barely hanging on.


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## Elppan (Aug 21, 2012)

Qwedfg said:


> As said above unless you use well water that is contaminated or previous owners used copper treatment it is unlikely its copper. How long has your tank been set up for? I use MG organic potting soil with no problems. Soil takes a little while to cycle from what I experienced so maybe its still decaying? I doubt this as well because from what you have said the readings are at 0. I will be curious to see what the GH test comes out to. Maybe your water is super hard??


It's a Fluval spec from a coworker, he never used it. Just gave it to me a week after I set up my community tank. I was just growing plants in it, but i cycled it anyway, and was keeping some ghost shrimp in there (figured the small amount of shrimp waste would help the plants grow. I picked up a second fluval spec with the intention of that one being a shrimp tank, but as i was setting it up i realized I could house shrimp in my fully cycled plant tank... I just finished scaping my new spec, and am waiting for it to cycle. 
I am using the basic filter and media that came with the spec, I had to purchase it separately for my second tank cause that was open box. Both I cleaned throughly before putting anything in them.


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## morgan (Apr 4, 2012)

Your shrimp are acting like there in a tank with chemically dipped plants ?
Are they newly introduced plants?


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## Elppan (Aug 21, 2012)

Well, of the two I have left, they are still alive. Not really active, but not dead either. One of them molted, could that be a good sign? I'm stirring the water about every 30 min to an hour, and doing tiny water changes with either more R/O water, or water from my community tank about every one to two hours. I don't have anything to keep the surface agitated, which is why I'm checking on them manually.


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## tunatime (Aug 1, 2012)

sounds like you might need more oxygen in the water?


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## Elppan (Aug 21, 2012)

Guys, I am TOTALLY at a loss. I got my kits in the mail today (API both hardness and Copper tests).

My tank read 0 for copper
and as for hardness
KH = 6 DKH (107.4ppm)
GH = 6DKH (107.4ppm)
they both changed colors at 6 drops. So that's a little low for shrimp? It's probably because I tossed a crap ton of r/o water into the tank

I'm not seeing anything wrong with this. :-/

I have some Fluval shrimp mineral supplement now, so I'll just use R/O water with that to stay at the ideal minerals for my shrimp, instead of tap water, just in case.

I have one shrimp left, put him/her/ihavenoideahowtosextheseproperly in a breeder net box in my community tank. It is having more normal reactions, I'll poke it and she jumps away. She's still not moving much, but she has explored some of the net-tank. Kept her with my Marimo ball and some anacharis floaters. They had been in the pitcher with her for the few days.

Maybe it was just some horrible stock, not capable of surviving a possible change in water parameters? I'm grasping at straws now. I would like to try my hand at some well bred stock though, to get a colony going. I've currently got a juvenile betta in the tank just chilling, and I will swap him out once I have shrimps that do not commit suicide in my presence. Anyone want to trust me with some shrimpies? *puppy dog eyes*


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## Nubster (Aug 9, 2011)

I don't think your water hardness is the issue. It wouldn't have cause death that fast. My tap water is KH 5 and GH 6 and I don't have any issues with my shrimp. Make sure the tank is being oxygenated well. Lots of surface disruption.


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## Elppan (Aug 21, 2012)

Nubster said:


> I don't think your water hardness is the issue. It wouldn't have cause death that fast. My tap water is KH 5 and GH 6 and I don't have any issues with my shrimp. Make sure the tank is being oxygenated well. Lots of surface disruption.


It's got plenty, nice happy flow from the Spec's stock filter, and lots of plants.


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## ravensgate (May 24, 2012)

Your GH and KH is fine. And though yes, an airpump or some water movement is good, I can tell you I have an outside tub with no water movement, no filter, no air pump, NOTHING on it (but it's LOADED with plants) and my shrimp are fine outside in that tub. Got about 30-40 or so out there. When I first started with RCS I put them in an uncycled 3 gallon with no filter, no air pump, and they were fine like that for about 2 weeks or so. I only added a sponge filter cause the algae got wicked out of control. 

So yes, these are good points to bring up but they aren't going to cause your shrimp to bang into walls and die so suddenly I wouldn't think. I agree with the poster that said it sounded like your plants may have chemicals on them. Where did you get them and did you quarantine them (bleach, PP, alum, anything?) before you put them in the tank?? 

If I were you I'd get the survivor out, and redo the tank and take every plant out you have, quarantine/dip it, get it ready to go back in the tank and redo the tank. I wouldn't put anything else in the tank until you figure out what has gone wrong.


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## ravensgate (May 24, 2012)

Did you get a TDS meter? And in case you don't know of this site, this a good one for general reference

http://www.shrimpkeeping.com/


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## Elppan (Aug 21, 2012)

ravensgate said:


> Your GH and KH is fine. And though yes, an airpump or some water movement is good, I can tell you I have an outside tub with no water movement, no filter, no air pump, NOTHING on it (but it's LOADED with plants) and my shrimp are fine outside in that tub. Got about 30-40 or so out there. When I first started with RCS I put them in an uncycled 3 gallon with no filter, no air pump, and they were fine like that for about 2 weeks or so. I only added a sponge filter cause the algae got wicked out of control.
> 
> So yes, these are good points to bring up but they aren't going to cause your shrimp to bang into walls and die so suddenly I wouldn't think. I agree with the poster that said it sounded like your plants may have chemicals on them. Where did you get them and did you quarantine them (bleach, PP, alum, anything?) before you put them in the tank??
> 
> If I were you I'd get the survivor out, and redo the tank and take every plant out you have, quarantine/dip it, get it ready to go back in the tank and redo the tank. I wouldn't put anything else in the tank until you figure out what has gone wrong.


All of the plants came from my community tank, except the java moss and a piece of driftwood. The driftwood I boiled for a few hours, and the java moss I did a few short dips, rinsed, soaked overnight, then rinsed again and added in. The other plants had been in the tank since it cycled, and there had been ghost shrimp in the tank until I brought the cherries home.


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## Elppan (Aug 21, 2012)

ravensgate said:


> Did you get a TDS meter? And in case you don't know of this site, this a good one for general reference
> 
> http://www.shrimpkeeping.com/


I have not gotten a TDS meter, but if I'm swapping over to completely r/o water and Fluval Mineral Supplement should it matter? The R/O should take out 90-99% of all the TDS, as the filters were just replaced last month.


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## diwu13 (Sep 20, 2011)

A TDS meter helps you reminerlize to the value you want. Easier then repeatedly using the GH and KH tests.

As others have said, not sure what's wrong since your parameters look good.


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## ravensgate (May 24, 2012)

Elppan said:


> I have not gotten a TDS meter, but if I'm swapping over to completely r/o water and Fluval Mineral Supplement should it matter? The R/O should take out 90-99% of all the TDS, as the filters were just replaced last month.



Fluval Shrimp Minerals just deals with GH. I don't know how much it would effect TDS but your TDS will be WAY low if you're using RO water which can most definitely be a problem. TDS meters are cheap enough and honestly, that's about all that's left to point a finger at outside of bad stock, but even bad stock is just going to die. And I would think slowly. If they are banging against the walls, sounds like to me they were trying to get out of your water (they'd also go to the top as well in many cases).


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## Nubster (Aug 9, 2011)

Elppan said:


> The R/O should take out 90-99% of all the TDS,


That's correct however you WANT TDS in the water. Somewhere between 150 and 200 is a good point, with RCS they can handle a lot more than that. Once of my tanks is 300ish, even as high as 350 and there was 300+ shrimp in there until I started moving them out of the tank to break it down. Too low TDS is bad.


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## Elppan (Aug 21, 2012)

ravensgate said:


> Fluval Shrimp Minerals just deals with GH. I don't know how much it would effect TDS but your TDS will be WAY low if you're using RO water which can most definitely be a problem. TDS meters are cheap enough and honestly, that's about all that's left to point a finger at outside of bad stock, but even bad stock is just going to die. And I would think slowly. If they are banging against the walls, sounds like to me they were trying to get out of your water (they'd also go to the top as well in many cases).


Well, only one did that. The others had lethargy, and just slowed down and died. I'll use a mix of r/o + conditioned tap water then.

My girl (I think it's a girl? maybe...) She's happy as can be since I put her in the breeder net in my community tank. I gave her a piece of frozen brine shrimp that I was feeding my ADFs, she DEVOURED it. I'm hoping she bounces back. Gonna keep her in my community tank for awhile and see how she does. Meanwhile my new adorable betta boy is in the plant/shrimp tank. He seems to love it.
I'll be monitoring and tracking my progress of both my shrimp and betta and see how they go. As long as everything appears alright for a few weeks, we'll see from there. 

Still have no idea how I can keep everything else alive BUT the 'hardy cherry reds' Maybe they are just soooo super inbred they were scared of my Yankee liberal ways and killed themselves for fear of what I may do with them? haha ...
I'll order a TDH meter as soon as my check posts to my account tonight.


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## aquariumluvr (Aug 6, 2010)

What kind of conditioner is it you're using? I use Prime for all of mine. Are you using exactly the reccomended dosage? I overdosed conditioner when I first started and the shrimp slowed down and eventually died. 

When I was having that problem with cherries and yellows I did a 75% w/c and used the right dose of Prime and they came back to life.


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## cantsay39 (Jun 10, 2011)

please check with water conditions~ likely to be said by many shrimp keepers it is easy from hard water to soft water ~ but from soft to hard it takes time. Shrimps are very sensitive, and you need to have a mindset first few tries will have some deaths no doubt but the surviving remainders will continue breeding, so don't give up. I been there, I lost and i gained, don't give up~ dont need to cry


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## Elppan (Aug 21, 2012)

cantsay39 said:


> please check with water conditions~ likely to be said by many shrimp keepers it is easy from hard water to soft water ~ but from soft to hard it takes time. Shrimps are very sensitive, and you need to have a mindset first few tries will have some deaths no doubt but the surviving remainders will continue breeding, so don't give up. I been there, I lost and i gained, don't give up~ dont need to cry


Thank you. My one left seems healthy and happy. I'll be slowly ordering in small batches from sellers and finding out everything about their water beforehand.


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## ravensgate (May 24, 2012)

Elppan said:


> Thank you. My one left seems healthy and happy. I'll be slowly ordering in small batches from sellers and finding out everything about their water beforehand.


I will be selling a buttload of RCS/PFRs juvies in a couple of weeks and will gladly sell you a few to see if they can make it. Get that TDS meter in so you know exactly what you're dealing with. The TDS on my tank that houses the shrimp I'll be selling is at 184-192 pretty much consistently.


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## Elppan (Aug 21, 2012)

ravensgate said:


> I will be selling a buttload of RCS/PFRs juvies in a couple of weeks and will gladly sell you a few to see if they can make it. Get that TDS meter in so you know exactly what you're dealing with. The TDS on my tank that houses the shrimp I'll be selling is at 184-192 pretty much consistently.


I ordered it this morning from Amazon, and I'll send you my readings as soon as I know!


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## Elppan (Aug 21, 2012)

Well! When I got in my TDS meter I found my problem... I'm surprised my water isn't solid! Slowly doing water changes in all of my tanks with r/o water and to lower it. My one tank with my lone shrimp is doing fine, TDS readings in that are at a nice 180. That tank uses about 70% r/o water and 30% tap treated with prime, give or take.

Now that I know, I can't wait for more shrimps to start raising once my tanks are better.

Are there any other ways to lower TDS, or am I doing it correctly?


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## Pinch (Aug 27, 2012)

One other possible thing to check is the tap water conditioner you are using, if it has expired it will no longer remove chlorine from the water. I know it sounds silly but I have lost pets after a water change with conditioner a few weeks past the expiry date. I didn't even know it had an expiry date before then!


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## ravensgate (May 24, 2012)

Elppan said:


> Well! When I got in my TDS meter I found my problem... I'm surprised my water isn't solid! Slowly doing water changes in all of my tanks with r/o water and to lower it. My one tank with my lone shrimp is doing fine, TDS readings in that are at a nice 180. That tank uses about 70% r/o water and 30% tap treated with prime, give or take.
> 
> Now that I know, I can't wait for more shrimps to start raising once my tanks are better.
> 
> Are there any other ways to lower TDS, or am I doing it correctly?


There may be other ways I'm unaware of but generally with high TDS I just do water changes and use RO or Distilled mixed with Tap water till I get things where I want them. Oh, and 180 is good..my RCS/PFR shrimp are in 176 TDS


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