# Black Diamond Substrate



## fishie777 (Nov 5, 2020)

Has anyone ever had metal bits in this? I opened my first bag, took a magnet to it and there are very tiny metal pellets coming out of it. Does that mean this bag isn't safe to use, or I just sit here for hours taking the metal out with a magnet? The picture is a paper towel with the bits picked up with a magnet in the first cup out of the bag. The 2nd pic is a magnet up close with the pieces which were sifted through twice and still magnetized. Thank you


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

fishie777 said:


> Has anyone ever had metal bits in this? I opened my first bag, took a magnet to it and there are very tiny metal pellets coming out of it. Does that mean this bag isn't safe to use, or I just sit here for hours taking the metal out with a magnet? The picture is a paper towel with the bits picked up with a magnet in the first cup out of the bag. The 2nd pic is a magnet up close with the pieces which were sifted through twice and still magnetized. Thank you


Are you putting livestock (bottom-dwelling fish) in the tank?


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## fishie777 (Nov 5, 2020)

Discusluv said:


> Are you putting livestock (bottom-dwelling fish) in the tank?


Just nerites as far as I know and a betta


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Then you will probably be fine. 
Personally, I never use coal slag in any aquarium with fish-- but, I am an island against a sea of those who will- without hesitation. 

So, take my opinion with a grain of salt.


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## fishie777 (Nov 5, 2020)

Discusluv said:


> Then you will probably be fine.
> Personally, I never use coal slag in any aquarium with fish-- but, I am an island against a sea of those who will- without hesitation.
> 
> So, take my opinion with a grain of salt.


Not taking it with a grain of sand :wink2:, but always like to know the why's. Keep in mind that I am redoing my substrate, trying for a black look, don't want sand per say, and don't want it to alter my water. I could leave stratum in but will likely end up back in this same spot six months from now. Always open to opinions, and then deciding for myself. PLUS: _I am really open to opinions after sifting through this for 3 hours to get the metals out and nowhere near done._


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

fishie777 said:


> Not taking it with a grain of sand :wink2:, but always like to know the why's. Keep in mind that I am redoing my substrate, trying for a black look, don't want sand per say, and don't want it to alter my water. I could leave stratum in but will likely end up back in this same spot six months from now. Always open to opinions, and then deciding for myself. PLUS: _I am really open to opinions after sifting through this for 3 hours to get the metals out and nowhere near done._


 This is a topic that has been extensively discussed on this forum. If you put Black Diamond Blasting sand in the google search box you will get all the opinion that you could ever want. The forum consensus ( of which I dont agree) is that using this material in your aquarium is entirely safe in all circumstances. 

Myself, however? --I would not use it with fish for what to me seems obvious-- 1. the coal slag itself has sharp edges- not rounded like other safe substrates like sand. 2. the coal slag often contains bits of metal (of which you have discovered), 3. Long-term exposure leads to secondary bacterial infections in bottom-dwelling fish. 



Now, in your case you are not adding fish that spend a lot of time on bottom of tank. But, I would still be concerned that fish take these sharp particles of metal up by accident while eating of the bottom. Or, as anyone that has had fish for any time will attest to, they sometimes rub their bodies on substrate. Even when they dont have parasites that are of a concern- many things can irritate the skin of a fish, they will rub up against surfaces to alleviate this. Metal bits in substrate will be harmful to skin and gills.


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## fishie777 (Nov 5, 2020)

That's my problem, I've read too much. I feel like I'm at a political debate with all of the opinions. One thing I need to say, I have only sifted through 5 lbs so far. I'm a bit OCD, sifting slowly 1/2 cup at a time. Sifting and resifting five or six times until nothing sticks to the magnet. Yes, overkill but I won't be comfortable if I find metal. 
On that note; _my last betta did sift through the eco complete more than my nerites_. 
With my hand as I sift through it, the eco complete feels sharper to me than this does. I guess using a nylon against them might show which is sharper.
I'm done sifting for the day, so I'll revisit this tomorrow. I like the look of the fluval stratum, just don't like that it wiped my KH out and wacks my PH levels. And yes, I listened to too many people who told me it would just lower my PH some. 
I'm not looking for a miracle, but gosh I thought choosing a substrate would be easier than this


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## Bunsen Honeydew (Feb 21, 2017)

Are those bits of metal, or is it magnetic mineral?


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

Leave half a bucket worth of water out for 24 hours, test parameters. 

Dump in a pile of the sand, wait 24 hours and test again. 

99% sure it won't change the parameters and it should be safe. 

What the magnet pulled out doesn't really look like metal to me.


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## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

I'm going to second what Quagulator said. That looks more like a ferrous mineral ore, not metal. What it is exactly, who knows. 

I would take his advice and check water parameters before and after introduction. I know Discusluv is an experienced aquarist, but at the risk of sounding like I'm arguing, I wouldn't be worried about it. Thousands and thousands of people use BDBS. If there was a danger to your fish, I would think there would be more people out there sharing stories of how their BDBS killed their fish. Seeing how that doesn't appear to be the case, I'm thinking it's safe.

PS. I'm biased here, because I've used BDBS for years with no ill effects. My results are merely anecdotal, and YMMV.


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

fishie777 said:


> That's my problem, I've read too much. I feel like I'm at a political debate with all of the opinions. One thing I need to say, I have only sifted through 5 lbs so far. I'm a bit OCD, sifting slowly 1/2 cup at a time. Sifting and resifting five or six times until nothing sticks to the magnet. Yes, overkill but I won't be comfortable if I find metal.
> On that note; _my last betta did sift through the eco complete more than my nerites_.
> With my hand as I sift through it, the eco complete feels sharper to me than this does. I guess using a nylon against them might show which is sharper.
> I'm done sifting for the day, so I'll revisit this tomorrow. I like the look of the fluval stratum, just don't like that it wiped my KH out and wacks my PH levels. And yes, I listened to too many people who told me it would just lower my PH some.
> I'm not looking for a miracle, but gosh I thought choosing a substrate would be easier than this


In my experience, it hasn't caused any issues with bottom dwellers like cories. 

No harm in being cautious. Big box stores sell black sand as well, likely smoother, if you'd like to walk on the more cautious side.


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

FWIW I've watched my goldfish sift through it for hours on end, in the mouth out the gills, and they never show any distress. 

Purely speaking on experience here, but I've never had issues with neo shrimp, ammano shrimp, snails, rasboras, tetras, cichlids, goldfish, rainbowfish, plecos, otos or rosy minnows. 

Nothing wrong with not wanting to use it, it's not labeled as aquaria specific so it's a risk we take, up to you if you want to take it or not.


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## fishie777 (Nov 5, 2020)

Bunsen Honeydew said:


> Are those bits of metal, or is it magnetic mineral?


Have no idea, but definitely magnetic. I would assume mineral, but some others are shiny.


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## Bunsen Honeydew (Feb 21, 2017)

fishie777 said:


> Have no idea, but definitely magnetic. I would assume mineral, but some others are shiny.


I have seen reports of having bits of metal in BDBS, but haven't seen it personally. This makes more sense to me. I'd guess it is a mixed iron oxide like magnetite, which isn't terribly surprising if there was an iron impurity.

Very interesting, thanks for the pictures and observation.


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

Quagulator said:


> FWIW I've watched my goldfish sift through it for hours on end, in the mouth out the gills, and they never show any distress.
> 
> Purely speaking on experience here, but I've never had issues with neo shrimp, ammano shrimp, snails, rasboras, tetras, cichlids, goldfish, rainbowfish, plecos, otos or rosy minnows.
> 
> Nothing wrong with not wanting to use it, it's not labeled as aquaria specific so it's a risk we take, up to you if you want to take it or not.


Interestingly enough, if you scroll through the Q&A, the company actually says it's safe for aquariums and they suggest rinsing it until the water runs clear. https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/black-diamond-medium-blasting-abrasives?cm_vc=-10011


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## Quagulator (May 4, 2015)

varanidguy said:


> Interestingly enough, if you scroll through the Q&A, the company actually says it's safe for aquariums and they suggest rinsing it until the water runs clear. https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/black-diamond-medium-blasting-abrasives?cm_vc=-10011


I did not know that, thanks for sharing!


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## fishie777 (Nov 5, 2020)

I think this was decided for me. I had an allergic reaction halfway while working with it. Not unusual for me, but moving on. Also, same reason I did not use peat/soil. I love all of your suggestions. Truly helpful. I really like the look of Activ-Flora lake gems and can't find much info on it. May order a bag to check it out. Is it okay to take the stratum out until it arrives? I only have plants in the tank right now. My GH jumped in two days from 8 to 12. PH is the lowest I can test, 6. That is with water changes every 2 days right now. I just want to get the tank more stable and get the nitrifying bacteria going, so out with the old gravel in with the new. :grin2:
Open to all suggestions, and thank you.


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

fishie777 said:


> I think this was decided for me. I had an allergic reaction halfway while working with it. Not unusual for me, but moving on. Also, same reason I did not use peat/soil. I love all of your suggestions. Truly helpful. I really like the look of Activ-Flora lake gems and can't find much info on it. May order a bag to check it out. Is it okay to take the stratum out until it arrives? I only have plants in the tank right now. My GH jumped in two days from 8 to 12. PH is the lowest I can test, 6. That is with water changes every 2 days right now. I just want to get the tank more stable and get the nitrifying bacteria going, so out with the old gravel in with the new. :grin2:
> Open to all suggestions, and thank you.


Yes, you can remove the stratrum for now. It's okay for plants to even float for a few days at a time.

If you had your heart set on black sand, you can see if Petco's offering would work for you: https://www.petco.com/shop/en/petco..._-CONNEXITYSHOPPING-_-Product_Listing_Ads-_-0

Edit: You also have offerings available from Seachem like Flourite Black or Onyx Sand. I will say that the Lake Gems gravel looks like it could be really attractive, been thinking about using it in an upcoming 20 long project.


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## fishie777 (Nov 5, 2020)

varanidguy said:


> Yes, you can remove the stratrum for now. It's okay for plants to even float for a few days at a time.
> 
> If you had your heart set on black sand, you can see if Petco's offering would work for you: https://www.petco.com/shop/en/petco..._-CONNEXITYSHOPPING-_-Product_Listing_Ads-_-0
> 
> Edit: You also have offerings available from Seachem like Flourite Black or Onyx Sand. I will say that the Lake Gems gravel looks like it could be really attractive, been thinking about using it in an upcoming 20 long project.


Well, I just ordered the Lake Gems. You'd be surprised what I cannot find locally. Since I have to send someone to pick it up, just ordered it to be done with it. I'll post close up pics when I get it set up. Thanks


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## gjcarew (Dec 26, 2018)

Just wanna say that aquasoils often stick to magnets. Magnetism is not a good test for whether something is "safe" for your aquarium.


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## fishie777 (Nov 5, 2020)

gjcarew said:


> Just wanna say that aquasoils often stick to magnets. Magnetism is not a good test for whether something is "safe" for your aquarium.


I agree and many earth minerals would magnetize, but my deciding factor had more to deal with the allergic response. I would never say it would/would not work because I haven't officially tried it.

FYI: I love experimenting, even if it doesn't sound practical, I'll test it myself. I bought some RHYZOMAT and put it around a few plant stems and roots. They were really trying to embed in that fiber. The stratum was set up approx. three weeks ago. All filter media from the old tank setup. I can say I never had this kind of root system in my eco complete. It's going to be interested to see how the next substrate does.


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## gjcarew (Dec 26, 2018)

I've never seen Rhyzomat before... seems like it would prevent you from being able to uproot plants. What is the purpose of it?

Bump: I've never seen Rhyzomat before... seems like it would prevent you from being able to uproot plants. What is the purpose of it?


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## fishie777 (Nov 5, 2020)

I do a lot of houseplants, so I think rhyzomat is nothing more than coconut fiber, but could be wrong. Warning: I soaked it like you are supposed to and it really expanded. I spread it thin and placed it under the substrate. My substrate ended up being too tall, so I tore the entire thing out and chose just to wrap the plant stems in it. You can tear it to size. I got mine from petsmart online. 
Just from using it for a couple of weeks, the hairs/fibers stick through the substrate and I took scissors and chopped to substrate level.
It would probably have been fun to play with it, but I will probably reserve it for cuttings.


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

This individual fish has been on Black Diamond in some way, shape, or form for a couple of years at least. Long barbels and never had an infection or nasty belly.









Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


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## sm1ke (Jun 30, 2016)

Some years ago, I had a few fish tanks with BDBS as a substrate. In one tank, I added a few Corydoras Sterbai. I had been using BDBS as a substrate for months before introducing the cories. I remember that when I was rinsing it (which took a long time), some sharper bits would get caught under my nails. It was not a very uniform substrate either - there were quite a few pieces that looked like 3-5mm long pieces of mechanical pencil lead.

Anyway, the cories initially had nice barbels. It took a few months, but eventually the barbels were worn down. The fish were fine, weren't behaving any differently, but in my experience the substrate was/is sharp enough to do some damage.

In another tank, I had the BDBS mixed in with some fine grained pool sand, and started a small colony of shell-dwelling cichlids. These cichlids like to dig out the areas around the shells they inhabit, and after a little while I noticed that they developed a dark "stain" around their faces, likely because the BDBS had not been rinsed thoroughly enough. I was rinsing maybe a half gallon of the BDBS at a time, with multiple rinse and drain cycles, and apparently that still wasn't enough.

I don't have it in my tanks today. I would likely still use it if I needed a cost-effective solution - but only in tanks with top-dwelling/top-feeding fish only.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

fishie777 said:


> I do a lot of houseplants, so I think rhyzomat is nothing more than coconut fiber, but could be wrong. Warning: I soaked it like you are supposed to and it really expanded. I spread it thin and placed it under the substrate. My substrate ended up being too tall, so I tore the entire thing out and chose just to wrap the plant stems in it. You can tear it to size. I got mine from petsmart online.
> Just from using it for a couple of weeks, the hairs/fibers stick through the substrate and I took scissors and chopped to substrate level.
> It would probably have been fun to play with it, but I will probably reserve it for cuttings.


 I used a layer of rhyzomat in my 180 gallon over my eco- complete and below my sand layer so that my geophagus (eartheaters) wouldn't disturb the eco-complete. 

The swords and deeply rooted plants really adhered well to the mat and held up well to having the base of their roots disturbed by constant sifting of geophagus.


Love the stuff-- wouldn't hesitate to use again.

Bump:


sm1ke said:


> Some years ago, I had a few fish tanks with BDBS as a substrate. In one tank, I added a few Corydoras Sterbai. I had been using BDBS as a substrate for months before introducing the cories. I remember that when I was rinsing it (which took a long time), some sharper bits would get caught under my nails. It was not a very uniform substrate either - there were quite a few pieces that looked like 3-5mm long pieces of mechanical pencil lead.
> 
> Anyway, the cories initially had nice barbels. It took a few months, but eventually the barbels were worn down. The fish were fine, weren't behaving any differently, but in my experience the substrate was/is sharp enough to do some damage.
> 
> ...


Yep. For every picture of "no issues" there is a counter-story.


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

sm1ke said:


> Some years ago, I had a few fish tanks with BDBS as a substrate. In one tank, I added a few Corydoras Sterbai. I had been using BDBS as a substrate for months before introducing the cories. I remember that when I was rinsing it (which took a long time), some sharper bits would get caught under my nails. It was not a very uniform substrate either - there were quite a few pieces that looked like 3-5mm long pieces of mechanical pencil lead.
> 
> Anyway, the cories initially had nice barbels. It took a few months, but eventually the barbels were worn down. The fish were fine, weren't behaving any differently, but in my experience the substrate was/is sharp enough to do some damage.
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear about your experience. I wonder if different batches are physically different in terms of sharpness and whatnot. Have you kept cories off BDBS without having the barbel issue?


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## sm1ke (Jun 30, 2016)

Discusluv said:


> Yep. For every picture of "no issues" there is a counter-story.


Agreed. This isn't to say that one should not use it - but all experiences should be considered before making the decision for yourself.




varanidguy said:


> Sorry to hear about your experience. I wonder if different batches are physically different in terms of sharpness and whatnot. Have you kept cories off BDBS without having the barbel issue?


I know that there are different grades of BDBS you can get, but the finer grade is too fine IMO. BDBS is typically used for sandblasting, so it needs to be sharp to some degree. Given it's primary purpose, grain uniformity is much less important, which could be why there are inconsistencies even within the same bag.

I only kept cories in that one tank, never had them in any others.


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

sm1ke said:


> I only kept cories in that one tank, never had them in any others.


I'd be curious to see if you experience the same issue under the same conditions with the only exception being a different substrate.


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## sm1ke (Jun 30, 2016)

varanidguy said:


> I'd be curious to see if you experience the same issue under the same conditions with the only exception being a different substrate.


A different substrate (i.e. something made specifically for aquarium use) would likely be much less sharp because of the purpose of the product. IME, you pay more for something like CaribSea's Super Natural Crystal River sand for the uniformity of the product and the smoothness of it. I believe 100% that using the CaribSea stuff would not have damaged the barbels on the cories. I can't say that about BDBS, but as we have already seen, YMMV.


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

sm1ke said:


> A different substrate (i.e. something made specifically for aquarium use) would likely be much less sharp because of the purpose of the product. IME, you pay more for something like CaribSea's Super Natural Crystal River sand for the uniformity of the product and the smoothness of it. I believe 100% that using the CaribSea stuff would not have damaged the barbels on the cories. I can't say that about BDBS, but as we have already seen, YMMV.


Only one way to know for sure and avoid conjecture. 

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


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## Kubla (Jan 5, 2014)

The only way you know for sure is to do a scientific study with a control group. One of the big issues is this is all anecdotal. Just because you have a tank with BDBS and don't have any issues that doesn't mean that it can't cause problems. Likewise, if you're having problems that doesn't mean the BDBS is causing it. 
If you think that spending more on a product made specifically for the aquarium is a safeguard you need to read up on Caribsea's Tahitian Moonsand. They killed lots of livestock with that stuff.


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## ahem (Dec 27, 2014)

The problem I found with Black Diamond Black Sand is it can be very difficult to tell what you are actually getting. I ordered the "coarse" from Tractor Supply and they sent me bags of what appear to be fine dust and not what people show in their tanks. While the bag itself had checkboxes for checking the grit/nozzle size, none of them were checked, so Black Diamond itself does not bother writing or indicating on their bags what grit their product is. I took them back and they said that is the only bag made now, that they used to have red and black but just one of them now. It was confusing and you'll notice in a lot of posts people complain of weeks of clouding after using Black Diamond probably due to getting the wrong grit. I decided not to take a chance and went with Seachem Black Sand and have not looked back. Despite the $150, I like the peace of mind of knowing what I got. I'm glad some folks figured it out and got it to work for them, but not worth the risk IMO.


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## fishie777 (Nov 5, 2020)

I think it is whatever works for you and whatever you are comfortable with. We all try different things and what may work for one person may be a disaster for someone else. I'm going to post another post for the activ-flora I went with FYI: My Black Diamond had a check mark under two different grades and both were faded. Don't think it was fine, but didn't matter in the long run. Thanks for all the feedback.


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## sm1ke (Jun 30, 2016)

varanidguy said:


> Only one way to know for sure and avoid conjecture.


Like I said, YMMV. All I can speak to is my own experience with the substrate I used. I know I would never use it again if I decided to get more cories or other bottom-dwelling fish. Main reason being that cost is not so much of a factor as it used to be back then, especially given the size of my current tanks (10g and 45g).


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

sm1ke said:


> Like I said, YMMV. All I can speak to is my own experience with the substrate I used. I know I would never use it again if I decided to get more cories or other bottom-dwelling fish. Main reason being that cost is not so much of a factor as it used to be back then, especially given the size of my current tanks (10g and 45g).


One of my smaller tanks has the Caribsea super naturals sand and I really like it. It's very soft and fine. Cories would probably love it.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


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## Asteroid (Jul 26, 2018)

varanidguy said:


> ...
> 
> If you had your heart set on black sand, you can see if Petco's offering would work for you: https://www.petco.com/shop/en/petco..._-CONNEXITYSHOPPING-_-Product_Listing_Ads-_-0


I'm using this stuff in my little nano and a grow out tank and it's growing crypts beautifully. The grain size is perfect. Crypt Parva in my nano. Look Ma no root tabs. :grin2:


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## Bettatail (Feb 12, 2009)

fishie777 said:


> Has anyone ever had metal bits in this? I opened my first bag, took a magnet to it and there are very tiny metal pellets coming out of it. Does that mean this bag isn't safe to use, or I just sit here for hours taking the metal out with a magnet? The picture is a paper towel with the bits picked up with a magnet in the first cup out of the bag. The 2nd pic is a magnet up close with the pieces which were sifted through twice and still magnetized. Thank you


There is similar black blasting sand containing about 30% iron, it is the byproduct from copper smelting.

Make sure it is the diamond blasting sand, it is Silicon carbide(SiC), and make from different process.


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## HobbyDoctor (Dec 12, 2020)

Discusluv said:


> I used a layer of rhyzomat in my 180 gallon over my eco- complete and below my sand layer so that my geophagus (eartheaters) wouldn't disturb the eco-complete.
> 
> The swords and deeply rooted plants really adhered well to the mat and held up well to having the base of their roots disturbed by constant sifting of geophagus.
> 
> ...


This is exactly what I want to do. I am setting up at 180 next month as soon as I get it from custom aquariums dot com. Do you mind if I ask how much Eco Complete and sand you used? How thick are your layers? I am really worried about my Geos digging stuff up.


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## Bea76 (12 mo ago)

I am having the same problem, but put it in before testing as I had never considered that light gravel could rust! Most of my plants have died in a week, should I be evacuating the fish? There's 5 Endlers, a Bristlenose and Cherry Shrimp, and I do have another tank, but the cherry's are a different colour, don't really want crossbreeds, but I suppose that would be an improvement on dead!


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