# Blue ram PH?



## unirdna (Jan 22, 2004)

Rams live in neutral->acidic->very acidic backwaters and pools. I have them in two tanks in my home. One tank has a pH of 6.6 (CO2 injected), the other 7.5 (no CO2). All of the rams are healthy and eat well, but the ones in the 6.6 water are 'beefier' and spawn frequently. From a behavior/color perspective, I think rams are more enjoyable in acidic water. But, ime, the pH variable is no where near as important as water hardness. So, I think your water (115ppm) will do fine regardless.

I, personally, would not ever keep them in water with 8+ pH.


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## mrk442 (Oct 25, 2004)

Sounds good to me i like the color and activity change i have seen since starting the peat filtering i will keep that up and check on my Ph i will probably drop the Ph down a little more on this tank to be closer to my other ram tank around 6.5. I just was trying to decide since they where bred and raised in tap water i just have never heard of they having much spawning success in that high a Ph.


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## unirdna (Jan 22, 2004)

mrk442 said:


> i just have never heard of they having much spawning success in that high a Ph.


Agreed. I'm also a bit sceptical of that value. _Raised_ in 7.8 I can see. But _spawned/hatched_ in 7.8 is a different story.


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## T_om (Sep 2, 2004)

I breed Microgeophagus ramirezi on a regular basis. As far as breeding goes, I have found the pH is less important than overall water hardness. As long as the pH is within reasonable bounds (6.5 to 7.5) you should have no problems at all.

What you will find, however, is that as water hardness goes up, the hatch rate goes down. Ram eggs fertilize and hatch MUCH better in soft water.

If you do not have access to RO, then rainwater is fine. As a matter of fact, looking at your message, you water is probably soft enough as is. Don't worry about the pH.

Tom


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## mrk442 (Oct 25, 2004)

Thanks for the comments i am glad to here from someone that has actually bred rams i have always loved these guys but have just recently been able to locate some healthy ones "in my neck of the woods by the time they get here they all seem to have ick!!" And for what its worth i do have access to RO water if need be but i will give it a shot with the tap water and a little peat for the moment.

Thanks again.

Matt


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## T_om (Sep 2, 2004)

If I were you I would forego the peat until it was proved to be necessary. In all my years of keeping fish, I have always tried to make things simpler, not more complex. 'Perfection' is the enemy of 'good enough'.

Adding peat can be tricky if you have not had any experience doing so. It is almost like home-made CO2 injection in its effect, sporadic and uneven.

If you are just wanting to reduce pH, I would experiment with oak leaves first, then go to peat if necessary... but I do not believe you will find it necessary.

Again, if the intent is to breed Rams, soft water is more important than pH.

Tom


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## Laith (Jul 7, 2004)

How soft?

My tap water is currently at 11KH and 12GH. Is this too hard?


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## T_om (Sep 2, 2004)

I use a Hanna 9813 meter to measure my water, not DH and KH test kits, sorry.

I have fine results with water that is .22 uS (about 170ppm) and 7.1 pH. If it gets any harder, I add rainwater as I do not have my RO units going at the moment.

Here is a shot of a very nice pair and their current batch of fry. The male and female are excellent parents. They are from a very high quality line, winners of Best of Show for Cichlids last year at a San Diego Fish Show, and also Won the "Guy Jordan Award" for best cichlid in show.

Tom


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Yowzers, that's one georgeous pair of rams you have there Tom. roud: 

You trading those frys in at the LFS, or Aquabidding them?


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## T_om (Sep 2, 2004)

I'll be selling this batch when they get some size on them. email me if interested: tgomearajr -at- gmail -dot- com

I like to get quality fish in the hands of hobbyists that appreciate them.

I am crossing F1 fry (earlier batch, same parents) out with another VERY nice strain. Also from California... don't know what it is, but the nicest Rams I have seen lately have been out of the Golden State. I am located in Florida and nothing locally can come close to the quality of these Rams.

These strains have been producing some excellent fish. Showstoppers, in fact. :icon_bigg 

Tom

Here is a better shot of the male;











...and here is the female. Please excuse the dirty aquarium glass. :icon_redf


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## BlueRam (Sep 21, 2004)

Tom:
There is a lot of interest in this fish in Seattle through the fish club. May I query to see how many people would be interested in splitting the shipping? About how may fry would you have available?


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## Crs2fr (Sep 22, 2004)

i have two male rams that look almost identical to yours tom.. but the two top fins are'nt that long yet~.. does that have something to do with age?.. i mean they have grown longer since i bought them,but not quite that long~!

chris

i forgot to mention that they have spawned twice in a ph of 6.7.. but the first eggs were eatin by loaches, and the second one's lasted a day longer.. then gone the next morning.... i dont have a setup for them, to transfer the eggs to~.. 

what is your setup tom?.. 10gal? etc??


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## RoseHawke (Mar 10, 2004)

*How do you tell?*

Okay Tom, pardon me for an ignorant question. I've just recently become interested in these and may make the decision to add a pair to my tank (in several months once I've got it settled down and learn how to work everything properly.) _How_ do you tell the male from the female??? To my inexperienced eye they look the same!


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## T_om (Sep 2, 2004)

BlueRam said:


> Tom:
> There is a lot of interest in this fish in Seattle through the fish club. May I query to see how many people would be interested in splitting the shipping? About how may fry would you have available?



I will be selling about 40 soon. I'll drop you a note when they are ready to go if you are interested.

Tom


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## T_om (Sep 2, 2004)

Crs2fr said:


> i have two male rams that look almost identical to yours tom.. but the two top fins are'nt that long yet~.. does that have something to do with age?.. i mean they have grown longer since i bought them,but not quite that long~!



Some of the difference may be because of age. Also, these are show quality fish and not all German Blue Rams look like these. :wink: 




> .. then gone the next morning.... i dont have a setup for them, to transfer the eggs to~..
> 
> what is your setup tom?.. 10gal? etc??


I grow out fry in larger holding tanks varying from 20 to 40 gallons. I keep all fish from one spawn together until they are large enough to cull. Fish are culled that do not come up to standard.

They start pairing off pretty quickly when mature, but I do not attempt to raise any fry that may be produced in these holding tanks.

When sexual maturity is reached, I take a long hard look at each fish, male and female. I select the best male and best female from each line. These fish are placed in a 10 gallon bare bottom tank with a little java fern and java moss to add to their feeling of security. The water is pretty hard here, so I soften it with RO or rainwater. I also have a few PVC elbows for hiding places. Spawning usually occurs pretty quickly.

My fish have usually spawned several times before placing them in these 10 gallon tanks for a "real" spawning. Perhaps this helps settle them down because I find they usually raise the fry just fine. I leave the parents with the fry for a long time (longer than most breeders would) because I do not have enough room otherwise. :icon_conf 

Hope this helps.

Tom


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## BlueRam (Sep 21, 2004)

T_om said:


> I will be selling about 40 soon. I'll drop you a note when they are ready to go if you are interested.


Thanks. I already have one other interested party...


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## T_om (Sep 2, 2004)

RoseHawke said:


> Okay Tom, pardon me for an ignorant question. I've just recently become interested in these and may make the decision to add a pair to my tank (in several months once I've got it settled down and learn how to work everything properly.) _How_ do you tell the male from the female??? To my inexperienced eye they look the same!



That is not an ignorant question at all. After you are familiar with these fish it becomes very easy, but at first it can be difficult. 

In fully mature fish the female is smaller, with a more rounded appearance. When gravid, her belly area shows reddish pink. During courtship displays, the female passes in front of the male (like crossing a 'T'), pauses and shimmys... trying to get him interested.

But perhaps the easiest way is to look at the black patch on the side of the fish behind the pectoral fins. In the male this patch is solid black. In the female, it is flecked with a few blue scales, usually near the bottom of the patch.

In my earlier picture in this thread showing the pair together, the female is on the left, male is on the right.

Hope this helps.

Tom


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## RoseHawke (Mar 10, 2004)

T_om said:


> But perhaps the easiest way is to look at the black patch on the side of the fish behind the pectoral fins. In the male this patch is solid black. In the female, it is flecked with a few blue scales, usually near the bottom of the patch.
> Tom


This is what you're speaking of?


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## T_om (Sep 2, 2004)

RoseHawke said:


> This is what you're speaking of?




Yep. That's the blue scales I referred to... roud: 

Tom


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