# The "One-Two Punch" Whole Tank Algae Treatment



## DarkCobra

*NOTE: Others have reported deaths of shrimp, snails, and fish - particularly known sensitive ones. Please read the entire thread for details before experimenting. For anyone who wishes to try this, I am changing my initial recommendation for H2O2 to 2 tbsp. per 10G, down from 4 tbsp. This treatment seems especially hit-and-miss with shrimp, so for them, I do not recommend this treatment AT ALL - unless you consider them expendable.


PREFACE:*

This is a technique I've developed. While I've provided this info in several threads now as personalized help, I feel it deserves a full write-up in its own thread.

In brief: It uses a _properly executed_ H2O2 whole tank treatment, followed by a whole tank Excel treatment, to provide a _much greater_ algicidal effect than either alone; without noticeably increased risk to fauna or plants.

This has been performed by me many times, and by others only a few. While in all cases no adverse effects were observed, I cannot guarantee it to be 100% safe. Only through many more tests in a wide variety of tanks can that be established. Keep that in mind should you decide to try it, and if you do, please share your results in this thread.

Even if you don't try this, you may still find some of it informative.


*FIRST PUNCH: H2O2*

Whole tank H2O2 treatments don't get much attention. The results are typically very poor, at least until you get into such doses that fauna are at risk; and after a few failed attempts, most folks understandably write this option off.

But the truth is, most people perform this treatment _completely wrong_.

*The WRONG Way:*

Typically, the first thing done is to turn off the filters and lights. Already, one mistake has potentially been made, and a path paved to another.

Turning off the filters does prevent H2O2 from flowing through the biomedia. That's good, because we don't want the H2O2 to kill too much nitrifying bacteria, nor want the H2O2 depleted at this point in reaction with these bacteria. But often, this leaves little or no flow in the tank.

The effect of any chemical is determined by: Concentration * Flow * Time.

A H2O2 spot treatment works with no flow, solely because of the incredibly high concentration at the location where it's applied. But in a whole tank treatment, it's far more dilute. So instead, _high flow is required_ to carry it around the tank, to contact the algae and have some positive effect.

Without that, there is only one place where high flow is occurring. Fish gills. And that is the one thing we don't want the H2O2 reacting with!

Moving on now. The H2O2 is added. Some amount of time is allowed to elapse, a half hour or so. Then the treatment is "terminated", by turning filters and lights back on. This is the next mistake.

Virtually all of the H2O2 still exists in the tank, because without flow, very little of it has reacted with anything. While light does break down H2O2, this is measured in days - even in direct sunlight. Not minutes. So the light has no effect, in the time scales we're working with.

The biofilter at least is now reducing the H2O2. And with flow restored, the H2O2 is at last starting to have some effect on the algae. But the fish are already getting close to suffering noticeable stress. The full concentration of H2O2 has been flowing through their gills for a half hour, completely without reason since this time did nothing to kill the algae. And they will _continue_ to be exposed to gradually lessening concentrations, further increasing the stress, as the filter slowly removes it. It may take another half hour before H2O2 is sufficiently reduced.

*The RIGHT Way:*

As I said before, Concentration * Flow * Time.

So if you want an effective treatment, provide _massive flow_ during the entire treatment period. Since flow is constant through fish gills, to protect them you shorten the _time_, by wasting none of it with periods where the algae isn't affected, and correctly terminating the treatment. If this is done, the increase in safety is actually enough that _concentration_ can be increased.

First, prepare the tank. You want as much flow as possible. If you have extra powerheads, add them. If your sole source of flow is your filters, you'll have to temporarily remove the filter media to a bucket of tank water, and leave the filters on. Otherwise, this is optional but still beneficial. I have a cheap Koralia clone that with 1,320GPH flow, turned out to be too much for any of my tanks; but I keep it around because it's ideal for this treatment.

If you have Marimo balls, temporarily remove them to a bucket of tank water as well. Cladophora is very hardy, and normally not affected by whole tank H2O2 treatments. But this treatment can burn them badly, especially on sides exposed to direct flow. If they're also infested with undesirable algae, they can be treated simply by keeping them in the bucket in a dark place for a week. They can tolerate extremely long blackouts without harm, unlike other algae.

Keep the lights on. Light has no effect on the H2O2, only your ability to see what's going on.

Now add 3% H2O2, at a dosage of 4 tbsp. per 10G of actual tank water volume (excluding substrate, plants, etc.). Yes, that's double what's typically used; as explained previously we can use a higher concentration.

Allow to circulate for 15 minutes. During this time, redirect flow a few times if possible, to make sure all areas get covered. If you have particular trouble spots, try to ensure they get direct flow during part of the treatment.

Now terminate the treatment. Do a 50% water change, or more if you know it's well tolerated. Return the tank to its normal configuration, including replacing filter media if it was removed.

Less hardy algae may be effectively killed by this alone, especially if flow was good. But all algae will be weakened, and now it's time for:


*SECOND PUNCH: EXCEL*

Any remaining algae not killed by the H2O2 is now _extremely susceptible_ to Excel.

If you weren't already using Excel, or were using it at the recommended dose, add Seachem's recommended initial dose of 5ml per 10G. No further large doses are necessary in this case. Algae builds up some tolerance to Excel, similar to sensitive plants like Vals. In this case, the H2O2 treatment followed by a single, sudden Excel spike is enough to quickly finish algae off.

If you were already using Excel overdoses, continue using the previous dose.

Enjoy your algae-free tank. If there are any underlying problems that caused the algae outbreak in the first place, correct them so your tank stays algae-free. In some cases, a thorough algae removal like this is enough to improve plant health to the point where algae will not return.


*CLOSING NOTES:*

I've used this treatment many times over the course of the last year.

It was originally developed to deal with what I call my SOS, "Staghorn On Steroids", as featured in my signature. SOS doesn't behave quite according to the rules. Like most algae it likes high light, but will thrive in medium light if flow is high. It laughs at high CO2, H2O2 spot treatments, and Excel spot/tank treatments. But it falls hard to the "One-Two Punch", and I relied on this treatment heavily when trying to figure out how to keep it from growing. Which took a while, during which time I probably would have given up in frustration if I hadn't found a way to periodically eliminate it, without ripping out half my plants after each failed tank parameter adjustment.

I've tried it on other algae too, mostly out of curiosity rather than necessity. Works great. Burning my Marimo balls was a nasty surprise, but certainly showed how effective it is, as they've never been affected by any other algicidal treatment. Should I ever have an invasive clado problem, I expect this might be able to eliminate it.

I've never seen any adverse effect on the more sensitive inhabitants of my tank; including otos, cories, bamboo shrimp, ramshorn and pond snails. No idea if it's safe for other shrimp, as I keep no other varieties. I'd like to see someone try it on a tank with a few expendable cherries. Java moss was unaffected. I have some anacharis, which is particularly sensitive to Excel, but which I've gradually acclimated to a normal dose; it too is unharmed by this treatment. Hopefully others can soon add their experiences.

Off-topic but related. Recently I see the use of AlgaeFix being more freely discussed, now that certain people have finally softened their views on it, and mentioning it no longer results in guaranteed chastisement. Yes, it works, I've used it, and it's certainly easier than my method. But it isn't safe for invertebrates. Several times I've also had fish severely stressed or killed by AlgaeFix, and although in the majority of cases this doesn't happen, I consider it a gamble. I have an idea why this occurs different from other hypothesis I've seen, and how it might be avoided, but that's a topic for another thread I'll soon post. At this time I consider my treatment possibly safer than AlgaeFix when a powerful full tank treatment is required, and certainly usable in more circumstances.

Hope this proves useful to you!


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## Shangrila

Is this invertabrate safe?


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## DarkCobra

Shangrila said:


> Is this invertabrate safe?


Has been so far. See "Closing Notes", paragraph #4 for a list of what it's been tried with.


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## Shangrila

How the hell did I miss that?


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## blink

I wish I'd seen this before tearing down my old tank as I never could get the black bush out of my fissidens. I've been trying a blackout but the moss seems to be losing the fight, so perhaps I'll set up a couple powerheads in my quarantine bucket and give this a try as I'd really like to salvage what's left of the moss.


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## creekbottom

This is a great write up on how to do this, Thanks!

I nuked my tank tonight, several hours on and things look like they are still 'fizzing.' Is this normal? 

I did a 50% WC. All the fish seem fine so far - Otto's, silver tips, and chili rasboras.


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## plantbrain

Shangrila said:


> Is this invertabrate safe?


Yes.

I think one of the key points is massive circulation asap once you add a whole higher shock ppm of a chemical treatment. The Algaefix will also have the same increase effectiveness if you do that since it, like H2O2 and Excel, will bind to organic matter and is heavier than water,(thus sinks in low current).

Good key point.


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## DarkCobra

creekbottom said:


> I nuked my tank tonight, several hours on and things look like they are still 'fizzing.' Is this normal?


It's normal. When H2O2 reacts with organic material, it produces oxygen - lots of it. The H2O2 is essentially gone at this point, but it takes a while for all the excess dissolved oxygen generated _earlier_ to slowly bubble out of solution.

The 50% water change, if performed with tap water, is also loaded with dissolved gasses. Chances are, you've heard of or witnessed "false pearling" after a water change.

In this case, because _both_ the old and new water are saturated with gasses, it can be quite a show.


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## AnotherHobby

This is a great write-up! Thank you!

I've been having some algae issues and I know it's related to the inconsistent nature of my DIY CO2. I'm almost done building a pressurized system and should be up and running before the end of the month. It's good to know that I have a way of nuking all of it and starting over when I switch over. It'll be a lot easier to monitor what's going on.


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## jonathan

Thank you for the write up 

Which algae is this good for ? Is there any that you would consider this a waste of effort on ?


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## nvladik

plantbrain said:


> Yes.
> 
> I think one of the key points is massive circulation asap once you add a whole higher shock ppm of a chemical treatment. The Algaefix will also have the same increase effectiveness if you do that since it, like H2O2 and Excel, will bind to organic matter and is heavier than water,(thus sinks in low current).
> 
> Good key point.


Hi Tom, would you say it's safe for a colony of reds with berried females ready to pop?


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## DarkCobra

jonathan said:


> Which algae is this good for ? Is there any that you would consider this a waste of effort on ?


It appears to be good for anything except hard spot algae. With those, any chemical treatment only kills the outer layer; which, since it takes a few days for the killed portion to flake away, effectively shields the remainder from exposure. So an effective treatment only shrinks a spot.

I've completely removed heavy spot algae from both an anubia leaf and a resin ornament, mostly just to see if it could be done. It took somewhere in the range of seven H2O2 spot treatments, over three weeks, for complete removal. Definitely a waste of effort!


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## plantbrain

nvladik said:


> Hi Tom, would you say it's safe for a colony of reds with berried females ready to pop?


You might lose a few, but unless you lay it on, you will not eradicate them, they are nearly immortal. CO2(lots) likely is a better method to kill shrimp off.

I suppose you could also spot dose moss and other hard to kill green hair algae, or take a bunch of plants, and dip then rinse, then return etc.

Busan 77 is the herbicide in algaefix:
http://www.epa.gov/oppsrrd1/REDs/busan77-red.pdf

I suppose you could use the several hammer approach, use this, plus H2O2, plus Excel.

They all have different modes of action.

But without addressing the root issue, mostly CO2 and decent O2, good general care, catching things asap........your labor tends to be wasted.

If you catch various algae right away, then these treatments are MUCH more effective, and the algae is less of an issue. I tried this and found I needed 1/2 or less the concentrations for similar efficacy for all 3 algae killers.

You can test this in a non CO2 holding tank, and add culls for toxicity for shrimp.

Pretty easy to evaluate. I'm leery telling folks this stuff, but always mention the root cause is far far more imperative. If you do test algae, you need to know how to induce it, and also, get rid of it, so you can start again and test it more than once.

Few bother doing that. But if you keep having it come back again and again, well, you can at least test again a few times. Best to focus on the plants, then come back this stuff once the new algae growth stops, so you get something for all your labor.


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## acitydweller

Playing devils advocate, What would be a good preventive measure besides water changes and lower light periods paired with sufficient bps of co2? I for one would not discount the hammer approach but often find prevention and preventive measures more fruitful in the long run and less dramatic/intensive for all involved parties.


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## DarkCobra

Since there's so much interest in AlgaeFix, I went ahead and posted my promised write-up on it:

AlgaeFix: Experiences, Experiments, and Thoughts

But feel free to continue discussion of AlgaeFix in this thread. Or other treatment/prevention methods. It's all related.


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## HD Blazingwolf

VOTE: +1
to be added to the algae resource guide


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## wkndracer

caution / concern on my part from past trials.
1 US tablespoon = 14.7867648 ml 
Recommended here is 4tbs/10g or 6ml/g

Treating external fish problems I've used and posted dosing H2O2 @ 10ml/g for a fish bath. 
Contact with organics & time are indeed what break it down not light just as you posted. 

1 US teaspoon = 4.92892159 ml
2 teaspoons of H2O2 per gallon is perfect for the scaled fish treatment I needed. Problem though with scaleless fish like loaches along with L144 and LFABN (Ancistrus) not tolerating it well at all (will jump right out of the tank). 

just FYI because 6ml/g isn't that much lower than what I know caused problems for some of my fish.


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## james1542

Thanks for the method, I tried it yesterday, and it looks like the BBA is fryed. A few tricks I tried.

You can use a cup to manually create extra flow during the 15 minute H2O2 treatment.

If you take some of your old water out (just clean water off the surface) and set it aside before treating the tank you can 1) increase the effectiveness of your tanks pumps + filters. 2)dilute the H2O2 concentration faster after the treatment, with less of a shock in parameters from a big water change. For example, take 5 gallons out of your 10g, now treat the remaining 5 gallons with 2 tbs H2O2, then after the treatment, take out 2.5 more gallons (discard), leaving one 1tbs worth of H2O2 in the tank. Add the old tank water back, and 2.5 gallons of new water. Gives you the H2O2 dilution post treatment of a 75% water change, while only doing 25%.


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## DarkCobra

wkndracer said:


> caution / concern on my part from past trials.
> 1 US tablespoon = 14.7867648 ml
> Recommended here is 4tbs/10g or 6ml/g


This is a valid concern. Some thoughts on it:

With vigorous flow, the H2O2 concentration does not remain at the initial dose for the entire treatment time. It will be reduced not just in reaction with algae, but also quite rapidly at first in easier reactions with omnipresent bacterial films and organic wastes. So this cannot be compared exactly to a medicinal dip, or any H2O2 treatment where little or no flow is present.

Because of this, in a tank with good flow, the dosage has an exponential rather than a linear effect. Too small a dose, and it will be so rapidly consumed that it has little effect on algae. Too large a dose, and after easily reacted materials are depleted, the concentration stays high enough for the remaining time that fauna may be adversely affected. Tricky, eh? 

I've tried many different dosages and treatment times, and I believe my recommendations to be the "sweet spot".

Increase to 6 tbsp./10G for 30 minutes caused lethargy and hanging around the surface in some fish, though there were no deaths and all symptoms disappeared within a day.

Except for the above increased dose, I've had no problems with my golden and weather loach, which I didn't think to mention in my original post because I don't consider them particularly H2O2 sensitive. The crazy things insist on playing in H2O2 spot treatments, seemingly without harm!

Still, if anyone prefers or feels more comfortable with a lower dose, by all means use it. The effectiveness will be somewhat reduced in my experience, but still adequate for anything but tough algae. The efficacy of this treatment is not due only to higher H2O2 dosage, but to good flow and combination with Excel.


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## DarkCobra

james1542 said:


> Thanks for the method, I tried it yesterday, and it looks like the BBA is fryed. A few tricks I tried.


Thanks for the report and tips!


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## karatekid14

Do you have a recommendation on how much flow for a 10 gal? That way we may have a little more success in coping your results. For my 17 gal I could manage 360 gph or maybe 710 gph, would that be enough, too much? I also don't won't to hurt my fish with the high flow. Thanks for the great write up!


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## veryzer

"The crazy things insist on playing in H2O2 spot treatments, seemingly without harm!"



:icon_smil I remember having a weather loach as a kid and naming it "Freakshow" or something because of its erratic behavior. A really fun fish, though.


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## DarkCobra

karatekid14 said:


> Do you have a recommendation on how much flow for a 10 gal? That way we may have a little more success in coping your results. For my 17 gal I could manage 360 gph or maybe 710 gph, would that be enough, too much? I also don't won't to hurt my fish with the high flow. Thanks for the great write up!


Higher is better. Beyond that, it's hard to suggest any meaningful lower and upper limits. I can at least provide the tank setups used for treatments.

The majority were done in a 46G bowfront, with between 1,320GPH (Koralia clone) and 1,620GPH (Koralia + Penguin 1140 powerhead).

Some others were done in a 10G, dual Aquaclear 20 HOBs with media removed, rated for 200GPH combined.

As for fish safety, if they're stuck to the powerhead intake and can't get free, it may be too much flow.  Seriously though, they can tolerate very high flows for 15 minutes. Much higher than they could tolerate continuously, as fatigue eventually sets in from fighting the current.


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## veryzer

I haven't tried this yet as I have no algae currently, but this should maybe be in the discussion for a sticky if the results are positive enough.


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## farrenator

Datapoint:

I used this protocol yesterday and some of the BBA is turning reddish. Not all though, so perhaps this will require a couple of treatments. I will space them out by at least a week or two. 

I did not turn off the filter and I did not take out the media. As predicted, the biofilter took a hit and I had some ammonia this morning. Nothing that a 50% water change didn't fix though. Next time I will unplug the filter and rely only on the powerhead for flow.

Fauna are fine although they did show a bit of distress around the 13 minute mark. My livestock consists of:
Cardinal tetra
rummynose
ottocinclus
bushynose pleco
Congo tetra
apistogramma cacuatoides
kuhli loach
cherry shrimp
assassin snail


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## Diana

Since some of the action is based on the materials reacting with organic matter, would there be a benefit to cleaning the tank as thoroughly as possible before treating? At least a good deep gravel vac for tanks with loose substrate.


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## DarkCobra

Diana said:


> Since some of the action is based on the materials reacting with organic matter, would there be a benefit to cleaning the tank as thoroughly as possible before treating? At least a good deep gravel vac for tanks with loose substrate.


An interesting idea. Though I'm not sure how much of an effect it will actually have on the treatment.

Flow doesn't penetrate very well into substrate, even if loose. For this reason, if you have algae growing on the substrate, I don't recommend turning it over prior to an algicidal treatment.

If you have lots of mulm on the surface of the substrate, then removing it would result in less H2O2 depletion.

Of course, if this is the case then a gravel vac is just good tank husbandry, regardless of treatment. Same goes if you have excessive buildup of mulm in deep substrate where there are no plant roots. No chemical treatment replaces proper tank maintenance.

On a tangent, sometimes I get buildup of mulm in the substrate visible from the front glass, in areas where gravel vacs aren't practical because there's plants and roots in the way. If it gets too ugly I measure out 2 tbsp. per 10G of H2O2, and inject it deep into the substrate along the front with a syringe, in approximately equal applications every inch or two. The mulm, broken down and more readily absorbed, disappears within a few days. You'd think this might burn the roots, but oddly I've seen no negative effects. Except for Marimo balls. Move them at least 6" away from the area, the prolonged exposure and high concentration will burn their bottoms.


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## plantbrain

DarkCobra said:


> This is a valid concern. Some thoughts on it:
> 
> With vigorous flow, the H2O2 concentration does not remain at the initial dose for the entire treatment time. It will be reduced not just in reaction with algae, but also quite rapidly at first in easier reactions with omnipresent bacterial films and organic wastes. So this cannot be compared exactly to a medicinal dip, or any H2O2 treatment where little or no flow is present.
> 
> Because of this, in a tank with good flow, the dosage has an exponential rather than a linear effect.


Both of these react fairly rapidly, peroxide is completely gone in less than 1 hour and most of it gone in 5 minutes. I have a Glut test kit, just have not gotten around to making the decay graph curves in a REAL planted tank, I would describe is more as a non linear curve, than exponential.

You'd need very good current to make sure things are homogenous if you took a sample of glut, but you could take several with a turkey baster type of syringe at various points. It'll last longer than H2O2. 

If someone wants, I have a spare Glut Hach Test avail:icon_cool
You'll need a hot plate and a stirrer as well.






v


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## farrenator

Update:

Just spotted first dead cherry shrimp, while other cherries are still moving around.
Vals are looking a little worse for wear - starting to melt.
The fish look fine, eat well.

Ammonia just tested at 0ppm

BBA is taking a good hit.


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## DarkCobra

Sorry to hear about the cherry. Hopefully there will be no more deaths. Though I'd consider even one death to be an indication they may need to be treated as a special case, with reduced dosage.

The vals aren't a big surprise, as they're notably sensitive to Excel. Were your vals already pre-acclimated to Excel, or is this their first recent exposure? Which Excel dosage did you use?

Looking forward to further updates.


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## farrenator

No worries about the shrimp, there are plenty more. As for the Val's, I have dosed Excel before. I followed the protocol as described with the following caveat:
I have a 75 gallon tank with a bunch of wood so I 'guessed' I had 60 gallons of water. I have never actually measured it.

All in all, this looks to be an effective treatment as long as you don't mind some casualties along the way. All my fish look great, no deaths there. To me shrimp are a little more expendable but YMMV.




DarkCobra said:


> Sorry to hear about the cherry. Hopefully there will be no more deaths. Though I'd consider even one death to be an indication they may need to be treated as a special case, with reduced dosage.
> 
> The vals aren't a big surprise, as they're notably sensitive to Excel. Were your vals already pre-acclimated to Excel, or is this their first recent exposure? Which Excel dosage did you use?
> 
> Looking forward to further updates.


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## creekbottom

Ok, this was quite effective on my algae, it's all dead and turning color. Now what? lol How do I get all that gunk out of my moss?


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## DarkCobra

creekbottom said:


> Ok, this was quite effective on my algae, it's all dead and turning color. Now what? lol How do I get all that gunk out of my moss?


If there's only a little of it and your tank is otherwise healthy and well-planted, you can leave it to disintegrate on its own over a few days.

If there's a LOT of it, some attempts at mechanical removal and an extra water change or two might help the die-off from releasing too much waste into your tank.


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## Liliputman

@dark cobra, I will try your process later  and I will document it after. My tank and its algae are found here.

http://www.mypalhs.com/forums/showthread.php?149469-2nd-go-at-my-100-Gal-for-2013/page3


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## john_i_williams

you really mean 4 tablespoons not teaspoons right


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## Liliputman

Okay so this is what i planned;

So for my steps with my 100 gal;
H2O2
1) Remove filter media from canister filters and power back on.
2) Now add 3% H2O2, (4tbps or 59ml per 10 gals, therefore 5.9ml/gal) about 590 ml worth.
3) Let this circulate for 15 mins.
4) Terminate Treatment
5) Do a 50% water change.
6) Add Filter media again and start back filters.
Liquid CO2
7) Add liquid CO2 according to Azoo Carbon Plus (for Excel it is 5ml per 10G)
8) Done and Pray! hahaha

And this is what happened;

So for my steps with my 100 gal;
H2O2
1) Remove filter media from canister filters and power back on. Added an additional powerhead (1300L/Hr)
2) Now add 3% H2O2, (4tbps or 59ml per 10 gals, therefore 5.9ml/gal) about 590 ml worth. Actually placed 625ml.
3) Let this circulate for 15 mins.
4) Terminate Treatment
5) Do a 50% water change. Removing 50% of a 100 gal added 30 more mins.
6) Add Filter media again and start back filters.
Liquid CO2
7) Add liquid CO2 according to Azoo Carbon Plus (for Excel it is 5ml per 10G) Added 40ml of Azoo Carbon Plus, which was twice the printed value.
8) Done and Pray! hahaha

Result was the algae did not change color but it started to float off the plants. And I lost mt two ottos.


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## DarkCobra

Hi Liliputman, welcome to the forum and thanks for the report! Some comments:

2) Remember actual tank water volume is always less than full tank capacity. In a well planted 100G, I'd take off 10G for substrate, another 5G for plants, and maybe more if there is significant amounts of hardscape. This applies to all chemicals, medications, etc. At 85G, the recommended H2O2 dosage would have been 501ml. Your actual dose was about 25% higher, or 7.4ml/gal.

5) Now this was a surprise. I hadn't considered the time needed to accomplish a water change in a larger tank, and this really slowed full termination of the treatment. Will be giving this some serious thought, I may need to reduce my dosage recommendation to account for variations like this.

What kind of algae was this? Sorry to hear about the two otos, but I'm glad you reported this, and everything else, in such detail.


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## DarkCobra

john_i_williams said:


> you really mean 4 tablespoons not teaspoons right


Was this to me? Or wkndracer, who earlier accidentally typed teaspoons?


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## danielt

Thanks for the tutorial. Will try this on my BBA 300L planted tank and report back. Aside from the typical GSA on the glass and a persistent BBA infestation I don't have other algae.

Taking into account the substrate and plants I will go for 1ml/L if I calculated correctly.

This will put me at 4ml/gallon. I need to make these conversions as I'm East European


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## john_i_williams

DarkCobra said:


> Was this to me? Or wkndracer, who earlier accidentally typed teaspoons?


Sorry, I was asking DarkCobra. 
Thanks actually you just answered my Q. So you did in fact mean 4 Tablespoons Not 
4 Teaspoon


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## Liliputman

DarkCobra said:


> Hi Liliputman, welcome to the forum and thanks for the report! Some comments:
> 
> 2) Remember actual tank water volume is always less than full tank capacity. In a well planted 100G, I'd take off 10G for substrate, another 5G for plants, and maybe more if there is significant amounts of hardscape. This applies to all chemicals, medications, etc. At 85G, the recommended H2O2 dosage would have been 501ml. Your actual dose was about 25% higher, or 7.4ml/gal.
> 
> 5) Now this was a surprise. I hadn't considered the time needed to accomplish a water change in a larger tank, and this really slowed full termination of the treatment. Will be giving this some serious thought, I may need to reduce my dosage recommendation to account for variations like this.
> 
> What kind of algae was this? Sorry to hear about the two otos, but I'm glad you reported this, and everything else, in such detail.


2) Yes thats absolutely correct! 
5) I was using a standard size hose also.

The algae was a combination of hair and beard which was over running my tank (shown below). Thank you your treatment worked and this time I did some preventive items;
- lowered my temp suing fans to 24C from 27C+
- shortened my lights from 10 hours + to 8 hours
- will add more algae fauna once my HC and HG grows a bit more.


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## Liliputman

this is my tank btw


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## nvladik

So after following this thread for a few weeks I thought I give it a go as Algae was getting worse and worse. I didn't have enough plants initially, wanted to "clean up the tank" before planting a large load. My tank is a 75g rimless, not filled all the way to the top and decent amount of substrate, so I figured dosing is on 50g-55g estimate of water.

1. turned off the filter and removed the media, just in case.
2. got two koralia 750gph powerheads setup diagonally in the tank.
3. I dosed 300ml of H202 with syringe right into the stream from one of the powerheads.
4. moved one of the powerheads for 15 minutes all over the tank to get as much flow as possible everywhere.
5. Stopped the treatment, 50% water change, Prime+
6. Recommended excel dose at 5ml per 10g, so around 27ml.

And here's the report. Right away something was wrong, one of the nerites looked like he wasn't dealing with it all ok. Fell to the ground, almost completely came out of it's shell. Everyone else was fine.

Next morning, here's the count
all nerites dead
one otto dead
90% of shrimp dead or dying (almost all babies, and most of adults, total about 50).

So what could have gone wrong? 1500GPH isn't enough flow?


----------



## vvDO

I tried this on my 2.5 g along with algaefix after excel treatment. 1 day later no change however will report again when I get home (away for 10 days). All I have are ramshorn and mts. Since the tank is so small and no fauna I kept my Redsea nano filter running and added a fluval mini internal filter on full blast. Scared to try this on my 6g edge since its such a closed system and since the algae is at a minimum. Both tanks got out of control after multiple 2week periods of being away. Anyway thanks for sharing this write up, will report again once I get back.


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## karatekid14

I wanted to report as well. I have an ADA 60P so I calculated the actual tank volume to be 12.5 gal. I dosed 70 mL of H2O2, with 320 gph of flow that I redirected multiple times for 15 minutes, 60% water change, then dosed 5 mL of excel. Death count? 3 otos and 5 ember tetras. I don't know what I did wrong, I really don't like killing fish


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## aokashi

did anyone test their ammonia and nitrites?I think killing off so much dead/dying algae is bound to have an impact on the parameters.


----------



## DarkCobra

Ok, this isn't good. I haven't had a single death with many treatments performed, but others are reporting WAY too many. I feel terrible about every one. 

So, I am immediately changing my recommendation for anyone who still wishes to try this to 2 tbsp. per 10G of H2O2. This will be added at the top of the original post in bold.

I would also like a shrimp expert to verify whether the one-time Excel dose of 5ml per 10G, being used here and recommended by Seachem as their "attack" dose, is considered shrimp safe. If I don't get a reply here in a few days, I'll ask again on the shrimp forum.

*nvladik:* 1,500GPH is plenty of flow.

*vvDO:* The active ingredient in Algaefix is known to enhance absorption of other chemicals, and I've found reference to it being used just for that purpose in several scientific papers. This is a whole different area of experimentation that no one, including myself, has tried in a controlled manner. I wouldn't recommend using AlgaeFix in combination with other treatments, unless you understand that it may pose an unusual risk.


----------



## reel1090

Hi All,
I plan on trying this on a 55gal with what I think is hair algae. The tank contains neons, angle fish, guppies, and pond snails. I don't care if the snails make it or not. Are these fish sensitive to this treatment?
Jim


----------



## vvDO

DarkCobra said:


> *vvDO:* The active ingredient in Algaefix is known to enhance absorption of other chemicals, and I've found reference to it being used just for that purpose in several scientific papers. This is a whole different area of experimentation that no one, including myself, has tried in a controlled manner. I wouldn't recommend using AlgaeFix in combination with other treatments, unless you understand that it may pose an unusual risk.


I wouldn't recommend it to anyone as my tank has no inhabitants except plants and MTS/ramshorn snails.


----------



## DarkCobra

reel1090 said:


> I plan on trying this on a 55gal with what I think is hair algae. The tank contains neons, angle fish, guppies, and pond snails. I don't care if the snails make it or not. Are these fish sensitive to this treatment?


I've done it many times with neon tetras, guppies, and pond snails. No problems with these - at least for me.

Karatekid14 reported the loss of ember tetras, though.

No one has tried it with angel fish.


----------



## HD Blazingwolf

likely this is due to how much stuff the h2o2 has to react with in the tank
the more matter the h2o2 can react with, the less stressful for fish
an experimental dirty tank vs clean tank might help to set those differences aside
for instance algaefix is far more effective don right after a big water change as there is less organic matter for it to bond to before reaching out to algae


as far as shrimp
i've seen the roach of shrimp.. cherry shrimp die from excel (it takes more than a normal amount usually)
i would not reccommend dosing excel on a shrimp tank at all. esecially not higher line or more sensitive shrimp species


----------



## DarkCobra

*HD_Blazingwolf:* Agreed, and most of my tests have been in very clean tanks, with only small bits of algae. I went to 10ml/10G in an absolutely filthy tank once, without incident.

I hope no one would ever try any aggressive treatment on the really expensive and sensitive shrimp species. It would be nice if safe limits could be established for cherries and Amanos, though. I went ahead and posted an inquiry on the shrimp forum to that end.


----------



## plantbrain

Well, it does get back to dose makes the poison, too much, kills the fish etc, too little does not kill the algae.

IME over the years, slow lower dosing worked best for algicides.
It took me about 2-3 months to kill the BBA in one large tank, but no issues.

Algaefix, H2O2 and Excel all bind to organic matter rapidly. Less than 1 hour I'd say in most any aquarium. Large water changes also add a lot of O2 for the fish respiration. Always a wise thing before any treatment.

I dosed Algaefix to knock back GDA with a single treatment with a single treatment of Excel, it did not eradicate a full bloom(90%). That also included a 60% water change and I also doubled the light for that week to see if increasing that would change the results. So it might have less/little to do with the chemicals.

The increase in light actually helped.

I noticed this before several years ago when I lived in Isla Vista CA.
Once the plants really took off from the added light, the GDA died back a lot and then a week or two later, nothing. Seems there might be a critical growth RATE to balance particular planted tanks. So plant growth momentum seems to play a role, how exactly, I'm not sure. I did not use chemicals back then at all.

Dark Cobra, I would keep using Clean tanks. Otherwise you introduce other variables. I noticed a big difference with ADA As vs the clean bare bottom tanks with the Algaefix. Mostly with moss infested with hair algae.
Easy to get since I have the moss outside and it's always got some hair algae available in the bonsai trays.

I suppose you could toss a lot of driftwood or some flith into a tank and load up, or use clay loam, ADA AS etc in one tank to see.

Seems that the more organically loaded tanks would have a higher requirement vs the clean tank in virtually all cases, the lower O2, or perhaps the dose killed the biofilter perhaps some. Those, not the chemical killed the fish/shrimp.


----------



## farrenator

When I treated my tank as per this thread I noticed a bit of ammonia the next day. I did another 50% water change and everything was fine. 

This was on a very established tank (2+ years) that had 0 ammonia before the treatment. The tank also had substantial mulm buildup in the substrate (i.e. lots of organic matter for the peroxide and Excel to react with). I had not removed the media from the filter and left the filter running. I can only assume decaying organic matter, dead algae cells in combination with a weakened biofilter was the cause. I didn't lose any fish but there was at least 1 cherry shrimp death (probably more but I didn't see them and I assume they got eaten pretty fast by the snails, shrimp etc).

I think the lesson to take away from this is to monitor ammonia soon after the treatment and be prepared to deal with it.



plantbrain said:


> Seems that the more organically loaded tanks would have a higher requirement vs the clean tank in virtually all cases, the lower O2, or perhaps the dose killed the biofilter perhaps some. Those, not the chemical killed the fish/shrimp.


----------



## fplata

farrenator said:


> When I treated my tank as per this thread I noticed a bit of ammonia the next day. I did another 50% water change and everything was fine.
> 
> This was on a very established tank (2+ years) that had 0 ammonia before the treatment. The tank also had substantial mulm buildup in the substrate (i.e. lots of organic matter for the peroxide and Excel to react with). I had not removed the media from the filter and left the filter running. I can only assume decaying organic matter, dead algae cells in combination with a weakened biofilter was the cause. I didn't lose any fish but there was at least 1 cherry shrimp death (probably more but I didn't see them and I assume they got eaten pretty fast by the snails, shrimp etc).
> 
> I think the lesson to take away from this is to monitor ammonia soon after the treatment and be prepared to deal with it.


did you remove your Bio filter while doing the treatment? i would expect a weakening of the beneficial bacteria in the tank , i have used a similar method and received similar results as you even after removing the bio filter, there are lots of beneficial bacterial all over your plants and substrate as well, this system works for me


----------



## DarkCobra

plantbrain said:


> Large water changes also add a lot of O2 for the fish respiration. Always a wise thing before any treatment.


Would you still recommend this before an H2O2 treatment, which releases O2? Or does the consumption of O2 by dying algae exceed the amount generated?



plantbrain said:


> Dark Cobra, I would keep using Clean tanks. Otherwise you introduce other variables.


I consider my tanks clean, but of course that's subjective. So are a lot of other things. And I think I've underestimated the variables. Hopefully reducing the H2O2 to 2 tbsp/10G is enough.

Everything else, +1.


----------



## DarkCobra

As of today, I've also added to my big bold red warning at the top, that I do not recommend this treatment with shrimp - unless they're considered expendable.


----------



## farrenator

I did NOT remove the filter media from the filter prior to the treatment. In other words, everything got blasted. If I do this again I will probably remove the filter media. BUT, I detected the slight rise in ammonia w/in 24 hours of the treatment and did a 50% water change. Subsequent tests for ammonia (every 24 hours for the next 2 days) showed ammonia at ZERO.

I would think that in any case, frequent water changes after this treatment would be beneficial to get rid of dead algae cells and mitigate against any ammonia spike.

Also, Vals seem to be recovering. They were experiencing melting after the treatment so I pulled them out, stripped the dead leaves, trimmed the roots and replanted. I have spotted at least 1 plant throwing out a runner and most plants growing new leaves. I predict a full recovery.



fplata said:


> did you remove your Bio filter while doing the treatment? i would expect a weakening of the beneficial bacteria in the tank , i have used a similar method and received similar results as you even after removing the bio filter, there are lots of beneficial bacterial all over your plants and substrate as well, this system works for me


----------



## karatekid14

This method killed the algae very well but also my fish. When they started acting weird I tested my water and they all came out 0. I did a 25% water change on top of the 50% and turned off the co2 and turned on the air pump. I think the best method would be to have even higher flow than you think is okay and remove the inhabitants if possible. Well actually the flow would only need to be enough to circulate the water if the fish are out, right? 

I really don't know what went wrong, I had high flow and given the amount of cellulose/debris/algae, all the H2O2 should have converted to O2 quickly. I still think this is a viable method but it needs to be tested a bit more.


----------



## farrenator

I notice you have a small tank - 12.5 gallons. Perhaps your fish death, as compared to my lack of (I have a 75 gallon tank) is related to how small your tank is. I would think that a 60% water change + a subsequent 25% change in a 12 gallon tank is a lot more destabilizing than a 50% water change, followed by another 50% water change 24 hours later in a 75 gallon tank. In other words, all else being equal, a 75 gallon tank is going to have more buffer/be more stable than a 12 gallon.

Two questions: 
How long had the ottos and tetras been in the tank before treatment? In other words, were they well established? My fish had all been in the tank at least 1 year before treatment and are used to 50% weekly water changes.

How soon after the treatment did the fish die?

One other data point: After the H2O2 treatment I drained the water as quickly as possible, using a garden hose and a gravel vac at the same time.



karatekid14 said:


> This method killed the algae very well but also my fish. When they started acting weird I tested my water and they all came out 0. I did a 25% water change on top of the 50% and turned off the co2 and turned on the air pump. I think the best method would be to have even higher flow than you think is okay and remove the inhabitants if possible. Well actually the flow would only need to be enough to circulate the water if the fish are out, right?
> 
> I really don't know what went wrong, I had high flow and given the amount of cellulose/debris/algae, all the H2O2 should have converted to O2 quickly. I still think this is a viable method but it needs to be tested a bit more.


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## karatekid14

I understand that my tank would be more fragile than a 75 but I believe that something else happend. Okay exactly what I did
1. tank age: 15 months, I only had lost an oto
2. stopped filter
3. turned on pumps, 325 gph
4. dosed 70 mL H2O2
5. waited 15 min, re-adjusted pumps
6. 50% water change took 8 min
7. dosed 5 mL excel
8. 20 min later noticed otos acting odd, added air stone 
9. 40 min later oto died
10. tested water, normal
11. over the next ~hour or less more died
12. 25% water change 
13. tested water, normal
14. none died, which makes me think it was the H202

that's as best I can remember it, that was Saturday.


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## farrenator

Yeah, I'm not saying that the chemical treatment wasn't the cause of the death, I am just wondering if it was chemicals + large water change.

Is it routine for you to do 50% water changes? In other words, would a 50% water change be a departure from the norm for your tank inhabitants? Maybe this is irrelevant, don't know, but curious.

The reason I ask is b/c I do 50% changes every Sunday, and my ottos are fine. BUT, looks like it is wise to tread lightly on this protocol



karatekid14 said:


> I understand that my tank would be more fragile than a 75 but I believe that something else happend. Okay exactly what I did
> 1. tank age: 15 months, I only had lost an oto
> 2. stopped filter
> 3. turned on pumps, 325 gph
> 4. dosed 70 mL H2O2
> 5. waited 15 min, re-adjusted pumps
> 6. 50% water change took 8 min
> 7. dosed 5 mL excel
> 8. 20 min later noticed otos acting odd, added air stone
> 9. 40 min later oto died
> 10. tested water, normal
> 11. over the next ~hour or less more died
> 12. 25% water change
> 13. tested water, normal
> 14. none died, which makes me think it was the H202
> 
> that's as best I can remember it, that was Saturday.


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## houseofcards

I think the expression 'an ounce of prevention is worth more than a pound of cure' applies here. It's pretty obviously that this treatment will have different effects on each person's tank depending on the different parameters, etc. So your kinda rolling the dice, not really knowing how it will turn out. How do you control for all those variables? you can't. Being pro-active and over-killing organic removal and other maintenance habiats from the getgo is your best bet, instead of relying on dosing chemicals with unknown effects on your livestock.


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## farrenator

Yes, but that doesn't help the person who has 'let the tank go' and is trying to re-set it rather than tear it all down and start from scratch. But your point is well taken.

I'd be curious to know whether most of the people who did this protocol and didn't experience widespread livestock death had 'relatively' larger tanks.



houseofcards said:


> I think the expression 'an ounce of prevention is worth more than a pound of cure' applies here. It's pretty obviously that this treatment will have different effects on each person's tank depending on the different parameters, etc. So your kinda rolling the dice, not really knowing how it will turn out. How do you control for all those variables? you can't. Being pro-active and over-killing organic removal and other maintenance habiats from the getgo is your best bet, instead of relying on dosing chemicals with unknown effects on your livestock.


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## houseofcards

farrenator said:


> Yes, but that doesn't help the person who has 'let the tank go' and is trying to re-set it rather than tear it all down and start from scratch. But your point is well taken.
> 
> I'd be curious to know whether most of the people who did this protocol and didn't experience widespread livestock death had 'relatively' larger tanks.


Look I'm not saying this can't help some people, but yeah the size of tank will play a factor as well as a bunch of other variables including everything from livestock, light, experience, dedication the list goes on, on. There's no control. It's just another eye-opener to get your house in order from the start. Excel alone is a dangerous product especially in small tanks, so many people don't realize they overdose way too much.


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## kevindiep83

Hi Guys, 

I got my 90p - 48g tank treated with H202 to kill the BBA ( 99% killed Yahhh :icon_mrgr ) from reading here and there online. But if i know this thread existing here i would do a little different.

1) should remove the media filter  i didn't do it in my case. :angryfire
2) do the water change sooner  didn't do either haha 
3) shouldn't get excited and dosing more h202. LOL :iamwithst

so what i did on my 48 gal ?

Dosing H202 about 140ml while the light is on - before dosing, i shut down the filter completely and no flows in the tank ( believing that i can distributed the h202 across the water surface evenly and let it settle down to the substrate about 3-4 mins) lol. My substrate soil got inflected so i gotta to this way.

Turn on my filter to max (yes !! need to be strong so it can rotate the water and hitting every spot that got inflected) 

i didn't lost any fishes or shrimps  :icon_mrgr

I didn't change the water right away, not until 4 days after the h202 treatment  i should've . Plus the next day, i saw the BBA turn red, i was like Yeahhh i must did it right. So i dosing another 100ml ( LOL ) while filter still running this time because i want to have the H202 dilute faster. ( i wouldn't suggested to do this way because it may kill your plants )

Here some pics for you guys to see


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## Jeff5614

farrenator said:


> Yes, but that doesn't help the person who has 'let the tank go' and is trying to re-set it rather than tear it all down and start from scratch. But your point is well taken.
> 
> I'd be curious to know whether most of the people who did this protocol and didn't experience widespread livestock death had 'relatively' larger tanks.


It can be reset without tearing it down. Removing algae covered hardscape for cleaning, removal of plants that are too far gone, substrate vacuuming, 50% water changes 2-3 times per week for a few weeks, the addition of purigen or something similar to the filter for removal of organics, filter cleaning, good flow, oxygenation, attention to lighting levels in regards to CO2, etc. will get a tank back into shape. It just takes a bit more patience than the overnight method in this thread. 

To follow up what Houseofcards was saying, good ongoing maintenance will prevent most tanks from getting too far gone in the first place.


----------



## DarkCobra

Not ruling out tank size as a possible issue, but I've done this several times in my 10G at the original 4 tbsp/10G dose without problems.

Asking if 50% water changes are routine is a great idea. This could drastically alter parameters if the tank normally gets small changes, or just top-offs.

Another thought just crossed my mind. H2O2 becomes a more powerful oxidant at low pH. When I want to avoid bleach, I sometimes spritz hardscape outside of the tank with vinegar, then H2O2, and it burns through stuff that H2O2 alone won't. On micron media it also removes stains and restores flow much better than bleach or H2O2. I have no idea if this is significant at any pH that one might encounter in an aquarium, though.


----------



## DarkCobra

Jeff5614 said:


> It can be reset without tearing it down. Removing algae covered hardscape for cleaning, removal of plants that are too far gone, substrate vacuuming, 50% water changes 2-3 times per week for a few weeks, the addition of purigen or something similar to the filter for removal of organics, filter cleaning, good flow, oxygenation, attention to lighting levels in regards to CO2, etc. will get a tank back into shape. It just takes a bit more patience than the overnight method in this thread.


I agree with this, but in practice often the underlying problem isn't known, and has to be determined through a long process of trial and error. During which the plant mass that has to be discarded because it's too far gone can add up so quickly, you might as well have torn it down.

A couple of personal examples, which I only found by trial and error because they were contrary to common sense and advice:

1) Once for three months I struggled with algae, with everyone consistently saying I should _decrease_ light, which only made it worse. In the end, it was completely solved by _increasing_ the light.

2) This treatment was originally developed to deal with my oddball staghorn, which is resistant to H2O2 or Excel alone, and grows explosively if you give it too much flow. It was solved in the long-term by reducing flow, and/or redirecting it away from plants, but it took months to figure this out.

So a good chemical reset will always be a valuable tool.


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## houseofcards

The only chemical reset that I know that is always beneficial is a large water change. Assuming your dosing what the plants need the water change is always positive regardless of setup. Dosing a chemical cocktail is very risky and that risks increases with small tanks and other parameters. I'd rather do what Jeff5614 describes before I put chemicals in.


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## farrenator

Yes, not disagreeing with you, very good points.



houseofcards said:


> Look I'm not saying this can't help some people, but yeah the size of tank will play a factor as well as a bunch of other variables including everything from livestock, light, experience, dedication the list goes on, on. There's no control. It's just another eye-opener to get your house in order from the start. Excel alone is a dangerous product especially in small tanks, so many people don't realize they overdose way too much.


----------



## vvDO

Update... My 2.5g is algae free, even though I followed up with a dose of algaefix my snails (inhabitants were mts and rams horn snails) are still alive.


----------



## 13B-RX3

Going to give this a shot tomorrow. I had things under control after algaefix dosing but a neglected DIY co2 bottle and removing some plant mass caused a major algae bloom. I have ordered my pressurized co2 setup and am planning on adding quite a few new plants in the next few days. I can't use the algaefix now because i have stocked the tank. I currently have 16 neon tetras, 7 Harlequin Rasboras, three amano shrimp, and a ton of ramshorn snails. I will get some before and after pictures and let everyone know how it turns out.


Any last minute advise?


----------



## DarkCobra

13B-RX3 said:


> Any last minute advise?


Make sure you noticed my change in dosage down to 2 tbsp. 3% H2O2 per 10G, which increases the safety margin for fish in a wider variety of circumstances. It still seems effective enough against algae, according to a few reports I've gotten in the thread and PMs using the new dosage.

After seeing the reports regarding shrimp here, I was thinking about reducing the Excel as well. But given the hit-and-miss nature of these reports, as well as some discussion on the shrimp forum, I don't think any whole tank algae treatment can be 100% shrimp safe; regardless of dosage. _Use only if you are willing to risk the Amanos_, as the result will be essentially unpredictable.

Finally, always keep an eye on your livestock - during this or any other treatment. If you see any disturbing behavior, terminate the treatment and perform a 50% water change immediately to reduce chemical levels. Reduce CO2 (if present) and provide extra oxygenation for the next 24 hours. This will greatly alleviate stress.

Whatever you decide, let me know!


----------



## karatekid14

farrenator said:


> Yeah, I'm not saying that the chemical treatment wasn't the cause of the death, I am just wondering if it was chemicals + large water change.
> 
> Is it routine for you to do 50% water changes? In other words, would a 50% water change be a departure from the norm for your tank inhabitants? Maybe this is irrelevant, don't know, but curious.
> 
> The reason I ask is b/c I do 50% changes every Sunday, and my ottos are fine. BUT, looks like it is wise to tread lightly on this protocol


I do a 50% water change every Saturday. When I clean my canister I will often do a 75% water change and the inhabitants have never shown stress. I dunno it may have just been a fluke.


----------



## 13B-RX3

Well, the deed is done, here are the results.

1. Removed filter floss and seachem matrix from HOB filter.
2. Disconnected CO2 from powerhead.
3. Added 200ml of H2O2 trough HOB filter.

Everything was going good. About 5 min in the larger of the ramshorn snails fell off the front glass and retreated into his shell. Neon Tetras and rasboras were acting perfectly normal. Amano shrimp were doing their thing as well. 10 min in Tetras are still schooling well and acting normal and rasboras kinda hanging out up top, still no movement from the ramshorns, Amano shrimp start to become more active (i wouldn't say stressed, just moving around a bit more than normal). I terminate treatment at 15 min and nothing has changed from the 10 min mark. 

4. Performed a 50% WC.
5. Waited 30 min and added 20ml of excel (never dosed before)
6. Ran filter and powerhead in same condition as above for 1 1/2 hour while i step out for a bite to eat.
7. Replaced filter floss and re installed bag of Matrix into filter.
8. Added 1 tsp of Acurel F and Boom!

I added the Acurel thinking it would be better to have the dead algae in the filter floss where i could dispose of it rather than having it decompose in the tank. After 30 min the water is much more clear than it has been in a long time and the filter floss is filthy. I will probably replace the floss again later tonight. One thing worth mentioning is after the dose of Acurel F, as the water cleared, my neon tetras all shot into the DHG and buried themselves. At first i thought they had all lost their mind but then i realized that they had been at the bottom of a very dark and murky aquarium for the last two weeks. I am thinking that the light is much brighter and they are hiding from it. Here are a couple pictures, i have not cleaned the glass yet and i plan on doing so tomorrow when i set up my new canister filter. Thank you darkcobra for taking the time to develop this method and if nothing changes it was very successful. 



Sorry, i realized i had not taken any pictures during the WC.



























And the finished product before a good cleaning.


----------



## freph

Haven't tried this method per-se, but the peroxide and excel combo does work quite well. Thanks for the idea. I've used it the past two water changes on my mini and have noticed a good deal of change in algae levels.


----------



## DarkCobra

13B-RX3 said:


> Well, the deed is done, here are the results.


Sounds like everything went well, excellent!



13B-RX3 said:


> I added the Acurel thinking it would be better to have the dead algae in the filter floss where i could dispose of it rather than having it decompose in the tank.


Given the kind of algae you have, I think this was a great idea. :thumbsup:



13B-RX3 said:


> One thing worth mentioning is after the dose of Acurel F, as the water cleared, my neon tetras all shot into the DHG and buried themselves. At first i thought they had all lost their mind but then i realized that they had been at the bottom of a very dark and murky aquarium for the last two weeks. I am thinking that the light is much brighter and they are hiding from it.


LOL!



13B-RX3 said:


> Thank you darkcobra for taking the time to develop this method and if nothing changes it was very successful.


You're welcome! Thanks for the detailed report, and pleast post back if you have any thoughts or new developments.


----------



## 13B-RX3

DarkCobra said:


> You're welcome! Thanks for the detailed report, and pleast post back if you have any thoughts or new developments.



I just picked up the largest of the ramshorn snails and kind of swished him about a little. After i set him down he slowly started to come out of his shell so they may be ok. Hopefully with all the changes i have made i will not have to use this treatment again, but it's good to know it works if i have to!


Just in case anyone is wondering about water flow my HOB filter is 400gph (if you believe it) and the powerhead is 266 gph.


----------



## houseofcards

13B-RX3 said:


> Going to give this a shot tomorrow. I had things under control after algaefix dosing but a neglected DIY co2 bottle and removing some plant mass caused a major algae bloom. I have ordered my pressurized co2 setup and am planning on adding quite a few new plants in the next few days. I can't use the algaefix now because i have stocked the tank. I currently have 16 neon tetras, 7 Harlequin Rasboras, three amano shrimp, and a ton of ramshorn snails. I will get some before and after pictures and let everyone know how it turns out.
> 
> 
> Any last minute advise?


If it's mostly an algae bloom, you could have just hooked up a UV. Not only will it clear the algae bloom forever with no risk to livestock it will also remove parasites, etc from the water column. Makes acclimating fish like Cardinals much easier.


----------



## aokashi

I'm used metrcide and h2o2 in on my green hair algae.

Im on day 3 of treatment on a 1 gallon tank.
I've been doing metrcide 3drops/day 
and a capful of h2o2 on day 2. 
My stargrass has black tinges but otherwise everything else seems fine.
some green hair algae have turned white and died

i have a bit of bga in the substrate, between the glass, any ideas on how to treat that...?


----------



## DarkCobra

aokashi said:


> i have a bit of bga in the substrate, between the glass, any ideas on how to treat that...?


Take either the amount of H2O2 or Metricide you're already using. Add water to it to increase the volume - the reason, and amount of water, will become evident shortly.

Turn off filters. Suck up your H2O2/Metricide solution into a syringe with a needle. Inject it right into the substrate in the middle of the BGA patch, up against the glass.

The substrate tends to hold the chemical right up against the BGA, so it won't dissipate as fast as in a normal spot treatment. As long as you have enough volume to fill this area of the substrate, even a diluted solution will have a powerful effect due to this prolonged contact.

Wait 15 minutes and turn the filter back on. Done.

If the BGA extends up the glass above the substrate line, you can also "tent" that area. Use rocks, plastic, or whatever is handy to make a temporary cover. It doesn't have to be perfect. As the treatment seeps out of the substrate, it will be somewhat trapped in this area, ensuring the BGA on the glass gets a good dose too.

In the ocean, there's a seaweed called Caulerpa. It's an invasive species which grows on the ocean floor. Nothing eats it except one species of slug, which does so only grudgingly. And it crowds out all other plants and corals. So once it becomes established in an area, _nothing_ else remains. It's sometimes eliminated by laying tarps over the ocean floor, then pumping chlorine under the tarps. So I didn't invent "tenting", just borrowed the technique.

You can get creative with it. For example, you might "tent" a plant by putting an inverted plastic bag over it, adding a treatment with a syringe, and then loosely tying off the bottom of the bag. Kind of like a dip, but inside the tank. You still have to limit the amount of chemical, as once you remove the bag, anything that remains is dispersed into the water and becomes a full tank treatment; but holding the chemical in the bag, and the more limited amount of water within it for as long as you like, would make this a powerful treatment. I haven't done it, and can't imagine why anyone would. But who knows, it might inspire someone.


----------



## 13B-RX3

houseofcards said:


> If it's mostly an algae bloom, you could have just hooked up a UV. Not only will it clear the algae bloom forever with no risk to livestock it will also remove parasites, etc from the water column. Makes acclimating fish like Cardinals much easier.



The algae bloom was just one type of algae i was battling. I just got my sunsun 304b with a UV light and hopefully it will keep the blooms at bay. 


Everything looks good today! The ramshorns are up and doing their thing. All is well!


----------



## balutpenoy2oy

My faunas are;

cardinal , neon and serpae tetra
SAE
boesemani rainbow
Emerald corydoras
bushynose pleco


And my floras are;

Riccia
Java fern and moss
anubias nana
crypto ( parva, undulata,...)
red tiger lotus
blyxa japonica
pygmy chain sword
pogostemon stellata
hygrophila ( sunset,polysperma )
limnophila aromatica
Micranthemum Umbrosum
bacopa caroliniana
rotala wallichii red
Ammania Sp gracilis 
snail ( nerite and MTS )

My question is which of them are susceptible to " one two punch algae treatment " ? I want to try this on my BBA . Thanks


----------



## aokashi

DarkCobra said:


> Take either the amount of H2O2 or Metricide you're already using. Add water to it to increase the volume - the reason, and amount of water, will become evident shortly. I haven't done it, and can't imagine why anyone would. But who knows, it might inspire someone.


Great info  but a little too complicated for a 1 gallon tank XD
I'm just slowly dosing a bit of h2o2 in ther entire tank and i can see it fading slowly... I'll keep the info in mind for future infestations 

Thank you as always


----------



## aokashi

balutpenoy2oy said:


> My question is which of them are susceptible to " one two punch algae treatment " ? I want to try this on my BBA . Thanks


possibly riccia and M. Umbrosum. Also the shrimps.


----------



## Merth

Hey Chris have you tried this method using the metricide? Let me know if you want to Ive got a gallon sitting around. Might have to hit my african tank with it and see never can be rid of the dang bba.


----------



## DarkCobra

Merth said:


> Hey Chris have you tried this method using the metricide? Let me know if you want to Ive got a gallon sitting around. Might have to hit my african tank with it and see never can be rid of the dang bba.


I actually do use Metricide 14 now for all treatments, as well as normal carbon supplementation. But unless discussing Metricide specifically, I prefer to just say Excel, since more people are familiar with that; and I convert Metricide dosages (at 2.6% glutaraldehyde) to the larger Excel equivalents (1.5%) when posting.

I used to use Excel, and found no difference between it and Metricide once the difference in concentration is accounted for. I love Metricide. It's so much cheaper, I tend to keep a normal dosage in all my tanks, even those tanks that don't need it because they have CO2. Doing this keeps sensitive plants like vals and anacharis acclimated to it, so I never have to worry about melting if I move them between tanks.


----------



## Zorfox

First of all, Thank you Darkcobra! I've been trying to eradicate staghorn for a couple of months without success.

After reading the thread I decided to try this method out. I had no reservations since my inhabitants are 3 serpae tetras and 10 neons. When I started for some reason I dosed the tank in teaspoons NOT tablespoons. Effectively reducing the dose by two thirds. I have a 55 gallon heavily planted with about 15 gallons of substrate, rock and plants. I did not remove my filter material. It is only the blue filter material one gets by the roll cut to fit in a corner overflow (was an old reef tank). I added 60ml of peroxide and a 1700LPH powerhead to my 2000LPH main pump. So to say the least I had plenty of flow! I constantly moved the powerhead around hitting everything, uprooting a few lol. After 20 minutes I changed 50% of the water.

The fish showed absolutely no signs of stress. In fact, they were trying to eat small plant pieces floating around. As soon as I finished I realized I underdosed the tank. Since I had to leave town for a few days I decided to just continue to overdose with API CO2 booster (no LFS carries Excel around here) and see what happens. It's been 5 days now and there is certainly improvement. I saw no increase in nitrate, nitrites or ammonia. If the algae does not disappear within a couple of weeks I will redose with the same "underdoseage". 

I thought it would be helpful to post my results even though it was not the 30ml/gallon recommendation since it WAS effective. It may be another method for those that have sensitive inhabitants to do multiple applications at a much smaller dose. I kind of view it like antibiotics for us. One pill won't do very much but a few days worth will.

Hairgrass before the treatment...










Five days after treatment...


----------



## DarkCobra

Hey Zorfox, thanks for the report!

Algae not initially killed will, for a time, adapt by producing more of its natural defenses to both H2O2 and Excel. So each successive treatment will be a bit less effective. Best case scenario, it will require more than 3 treatments at 1/3 dose, to get the same effect as a single treatment at full dose. Worse case, the algae will grow sufficiently resistant that you have to increase dosage or frequency to see substantial continued improvement.

That's why I prefer to use the largest H2O2 dose I can reliably get away with, and a sudden spike in Excel rather than continuous overdosing. Still, "chipping away at the stone" can work too. If you prefer to proceed this way, I encourage it, and would love to see future updates.


----------



## abc

I used this treatment for BGA, but I added a maracyn treatment. Thanks for the thread. I was having an unsual time with the BGA. I did the following:

1) peroxide as described
2) excel as described
3) marycyn treatment for a 1 week (3 doses spread out)
4) carbon filter to get rid of extra fertz
5) blackout throughout steps 1-4
6) when my water parameters were 0ppm pretty much all across the board
7) I cautiously started using lights again and commenced EI

Finally.... the BGA is gone :bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce:

and I'm hoping to start fresh and get the right balance of fertz, lights, C02 (paintball) etc.


----------



## aokashi

had some stag horn....so...

i tried on my tank... 10min h2o2 treatment... double dosage... took out all fauna, except for snails.

i then did a 100% wc... 

i *think* the algae is gone. two plants didnt take well to the treatment... HM and giant baby tears...blyxa and stargrass were unfazed...

Im assuming all snails came out alive... since the babies were still out and aboit after the treatment


----------



## pirayaman

i have just done this similarly and then found this thread.

i left the floss on my power head wich probley has bacteria and used up all my hydrogen peroxide.

i turned off canister filter 
left on lights and co2 
am also dosing excel regularly 

mls measured using a flourish cap 
i used 25 ml in a 40 b so i probley have about 35 gallons after plants substrate and plants so 25 ml of peroxide in 35 gallons 

i have clado alge every where 
will see if this works if not i will remove the floss next time


----------



## aokashi

Day...4... HM is getting reallllly melty, I'm pretty sure it will bounce back, but still annoyed...

getting a bit of bga again for some reason.


----------



## pirayaman

ok well 25ml per 35 gallons didnt seem to do anything so i went nuts.

today was 100ml in 35 gallons with the power head floss off idk clado sucks

oh forgot to mention i have 20 crs and 100 cherry reds mostly babies and 4 zebra snails also 6 ottos


----------



## aokashi

HM stopped melting, and the snails are cleaning it up...


----------



## jkan0228

Can anyone shed some light on how this technique affected your mosses? Specifically mini pellia, fissidens and weeping. Considering doing this on my 95G from a short BBA outbreak.


----------



## abc

jkan0228 said:


> Can anyone shed some light on how this technique affected your mosses? Specifically mini pellia, fissidens and weeping. Considering doing this on my 95G from a short BBA outbreak.


expect some browning and dying moss but it will all grow back in 2-3 weeks. just trim off the dead moss a little (not too much).


----------



## aokashi

jkan0228 said:


> Can anyone shed some light on how this technique affected your mosses? Specifically mini pellia, fissidens and weeping. Considering doing this on my 95G from a short BBA outbreak.


mine were unaffected :O


----------



## jingleberry

Received some plants with BBA and hair algae, going to give this a try. The other plants I received from the seller appears to be free from algae, should I treat all the plants I received? or just the ones that are affected? Probably should've asked for some photos of the actual plants before I placed my order. Thanks.


----------



## vvDO

jingleberry said:


> Received some plants with BBA and hair algae, going to give this a try. The other plants I received from the seller appears to be free from algae, should I treat all the plants I received? or just the ones that are affected? Probably should've asked for some photos of the actual plants before I placed my order. Thanks.


I would treat them all.


----------



## abc

I would lightly dip the plants even if they did not have bba. It won't hurt the plants and it can prevent much grief later.


----------



## pirayaman

well after 25 5 ml caps of peroxide in 35 gallons and run power head for 1-2 hrs clado seems to be turning clear also overdosed excell 6 5 ml caps plants are fine fissens looks ok and the bizillion cherry shrimp babies i lost 2 thats all out of at least a 100 no crs were harmed


----------



## pirayaman

aokashi said:


> Day...4... HM is getting reallllly melty, I'm pretty sure it will bounce back, but still annoyed...
> 
> getting a bit of bga again for some reason.


 
youve bin doing the peroxide and excell for 4 days ?


----------



## aokashi

pirayaman said:


> youve bin doing the peroxide and excell for 4 days ?


no lol.. just day 4 after treatment. i do metrcide everyday


----------



## BoxxerBoyDrew

What strength of peroxide do you use for the treatment???

If I missed it some where, sorry!

Thanks,
Drew


----------



## DarkCobra

Always the most common 3% H2O2 peroxide, as found in grocery and drug stores. At least in the US, somewhere overseas may be different. If it's a different concentration, adjust the dosage accordingly.


----------



## ChadRamsey

tank background

125g
FX5 with 5 foot spraybar
pressurized co2 
IE dosing
45 cardinal tetras
12 amano shrimp

LOW plant mass. DHG, HC, Blyxa Jap, LOTS of fiss. 

Tank has been up and running since November. I have had very little algae from day one. I bit of BGA, very little, Rhizo here and there, a ton of string algae and i was cleaning GSA off the glass every few days

About Christmas time i started getting the first of the BBA popping up. I increased my co2 and raised my light 3 inches so that they are now 36" above the substrate.

After a month and a half of manually removing and spot treating, it just wouldnt go away...

So i decide to try the 1-2 Punch.

I started with 2% H2O2. I noticed very little fissing initially. 

3 days later:
No effect on the BBA, GSA, BGA, rhizo
weakening if the thread
NO effect the fish, shrimp, and plants

So the next WC days was Sunday. Exactly 7 days later i repeated the 1-2 punch with 3% H2O2

Initially there was alot of fizzing.

3 days later:
BBA- took a good hit. started to discolor
BGA- GONE
GSA-GONE
thread-GONE
Rhizo-GONE

Lost a few cardinals and amanos.
HC took a pretty good hit. Alot of discoloration to the leaves. 


Today:
BBA is taking over again
Rhizo is going back with vengence like its mad at me
BGA popping up again. 3x what i had before the 1-2 punch

I am not too sure whats wrong and were to start making corrections


----------



## aokashi

I thought u were supposed to keep dosing excel after treatment? My HM and Macranthemum Umbrosum took a good hit too.


----------



## sundragon

ChadRamsey said:


> tank background
> 
> 125g
> FX5 with 5 foot spraybar
> pressurized co2
> IE dosing
> 45 cardinal tetras
> 12 amano shrimp
> 
> LOW plant mass. DHG, HC, Blyxa Jap, LOTS of fiss.
> 
> Tank has been up and running since November. I have had very little algae from day one. I bit of BGA, very little, Rhizo here and there, a ton of string algae and i was cleaning GSA off the glass every few days
> 
> About Christmas time i started getting the first of the BBA popping up. I increased my co2 and raised my light 3 inches so that they are now 36" above the substrate.
> 
> After a month and a half of manually removing and spot treating, it just wouldnt go away...
> 
> So i decide to try the 1-2 Punch.
> 
> I started with 2% H2O2. I noticed very little fissing initially.
> 
> 3 days later:
> No effect on the BBA, GSA, BGA, rhizo
> weakening if the thread
> NO effect the fish, shrimp, and plants
> 
> So the next WC days was Sunday. Exactly 7 days later i repeated the 1-2 punch with 3% H2O2
> 
> Initially there was alot of fizzing.
> 
> 3 days later:
> BBA- took a good hit. started to discolor
> BGA- GONE
> GSA-GONE
> thread-GONE
> Rhizo-GONE
> 
> Lost a few cardinals and amanos.
> HC took a pretty good hit. Alot of discoloration to the leaves.
> 
> 
> Today:
> BBA is taking over again
> Rhizo is going back with vengence like its mad at me
> BGA popping up again. 3x what i had before the 1-2 punch
> 
> I am not too sure whats wrong and were to start making corrections


What's your photo-period? What kind of lighting? I've found increasing CO2/ reducing light makes a difference, as does fine tuning EI depending on your plant mass instead of just on the size of the tank.


----------



## ChadRamsey

sundragon said:


> What's your photo-period? What kind of lighting? I've found increasing CO2/ reducing light makes a difference, as does fine tuning EI depending on your plant mass instead of just on the size of the tank.


 
lighing: 2 36" Tek fixtures with 2x Giesemann Middays and 2x Flora bulbs

7 hours photo period. CO2 is up so high that i have to move them and the shrimp out.

my IE dosing is:

Monday: 1/2 tsp Plantex CSM+B, 1/4 tsp Mg (ei. MgS04-7H2O)
Tuesday: 1/2 KH2PO4, 1/2 CaNO3
Wednesday: 1/2 tsp Plantex CSM+B, 1/4 tsp Mg
Thursday: 1/2 KH2PO4, 1/2 CaNO3
Friday: 1/2 tsp Plantex CSM+B, 1/4 tsp Mg
Saturday: rest
Sunday: 50% WC, 1 tbsp GH Booster, 1 tsp baking soda, 1/2 KH2PO4, 1/2 CaNO3


----------



## DarkCobra

Chad, I took a look at part of your tank journal. Lights look about 36" from substrate. Hard to estimate exact lighting, but it seems in the ballpark, and not too much.

<<Edited out stupid question, don't know what I was thinking>> I'd do a nitrate test and see if you're overfertilizing. Unmodified EI plus lots of fish, and especially when there's not much plant mass, can do this. And will cause algae in my experience once it gets into _extreme_ excesses. Further reducing plant mass will make it worse, algae counts as plant mass, and you had some side effects to your plants - which might explain the rapid rebound.

Also, I'm concerned about your flow. The FX5 is rated optimistically at 600GPH with filter media installed, probably less with the spray bar. And most of your plants are at the bottom, farthest away from the flow. The usual guideline is to have 10X more GPH than your tanks size, or 1,250GPH, to break up the surface tension on leaves sufficiently to carry CO2. I don't see any supplemental powerheads or such, though I might have missed something.


----------



## DarkCobra

Oh, one more thing! Using CaNO3 instead of KNO3 removes your primary source of potassium. The potassium from KH2PO4 is much smaller, and not enough. And I don't see where you've replaced the missing potassium with something like K2SO4.


----------



## P015

DarkCobra will this technique work on dark red/brown algae? (It doesn't look like the diatoms that I first had when tank was started, this tank has been running for 1.5 years) This algae is coating the leaves of my plants and it rubs off easily, but it is getting slimy with little specs of fuzz on some leaves. This algae only appears on my plants, none on the glass. I also get green powder algae on my glass that I clean time to time probably once a month (this doesn't get too bad).

I have a finnex fugeray 30" with a 29 gallon tank (so my lighting is lower medium)
-run this light 8 hours a day with DIY C02 that I started recently
-Substrate is aquasoil 
-I dont dose any ferts
-I don't really have nitrate/nitrite numbers because I don't currently have a testing kit but I do 25% water changes once a week.

I just want to clean the tank and apply this method before I get my cherry shrimps this Friday. Thank you for your help and insight.


----------



## DarkCobra

P015, I don't think it's been tried specifically against that, though it seems effective against darn near everything.

It sounds like your plants are languishing. Growing slow. Old leaves with algae accumulating over time, and winning as the leaves' protective layer degrades. Plants not able to keep algae down in the tank as a whole. I'd definitely dose at least some minimal, but comprehensive ferts, and perk the plants up.

Despite having developed a technique which someone recently described to me as "nuking the algae from orbit" (love it!), I do often prefer to solve problems using minimal force. In your case, I'm sure it could be turned around by solving the underlying issue. Some manual cleaning, since it's easily removed algae, unlike many discussed here. Growing and trimming plants. Plus maybe a cleanup crew, many species eat soft algae. Ramshorns and otos love it, and cherries will probably enjoy munching on it too. Success is measured in weeks not days, but it will come just the same.

So that's my recommendation. The choice is up to you, of course. I do appreciate you have a window of opportunity to rapidly clear the algae, which closes when the shrimp arrive, and you may want to take advantage of. But you will still have to solve the underlying issue. If you don't, or if another issue appears, the algae will return and you'll no longer be able to safely use the One-Two. Better to use this as an immediate opportunity to practice and gain experience from turning a tank around using less intrusive techniques, IMO.


----------



## P015

I really appreciate your thorough response and it is very helpful, so thank you! The problem with cleaning each of the leaves manually is that it would take many hours (especially for the small leaved plants). I think I will try this method just to thoroughly reach all the leaves and try for a fresh start.

I do have flourish comprehensive, but when I dosed it I got a powder green algae outbreak. I figured the algae was consuming all the nutrients so I stopped. Should I start dosing again even though I have aquasoil?

So this is my plan, use this method tomorrow before the shrimp arrive to try and weaken this algae. I will then try and clean it out. I will also buy some otos and Amano Shrimp, (but no ramshorn because I read they rapidly multiply) to combat future algae. 

Is there anything else you advice me to do? I don't want to harm my plants though, so will probably dose a lower amount of excel due to jungle vals. Will the h202 negatively effect any of my plants?


----------



## DarkCobra

Flourish Comprehensive isn't really so comprehensive. Take a look at a partial chemical analysis:

Total Nitrogen: 0.07%
Available Phosphate (P2O5): 0.01%
Soluble Potash (Potassium): 0.37%
Iron (Fe): 0.32%

Notice that the macro nutrients are only included in trace quantities, less than or barely more than iron!

If a nutrient is very near zero, that is in fact a form of algae control. A system called PMDD used to take advantage of that, by keeping phosphorus in the water as close to zero as possible. It's just not a good form of algae control - if the water content doesn't have enough nutrients to support algae, it's even worse for the plants. They're essentially forced to rely on the nutrient content of the substrate alone, which may or may not be adequate.

Add a trace of the limiting nutrient to the water, what happens? The algae can now grow freely, they require little. But this won't substantially impact the plants, which require more. If they were sluggish or suffering before, they will still be, and unable to exert their full anti-algae effects on the tank - which would more than counteract the nutrient availability to algae.

So even though dosing Flourish Comprehensive might have been a small step in the right direction, it can actually make things worse.

Now Flourish Nitrogen/Phosphorus/Potassium are a different story. Their primary ingredients, combined for all three:

Total Nitrogen (N): 1.5%
Total Phosphate (P2O5): 0.3%
Soluble Potassium (K2O): 5.8%

Huge difference between using these and Comprehensive. If you really do have a macro nutrient deficiency, it will take these to solve it. Or some other quality brand of liquid ferts. Or dry ferts.

As for the nutrient content of Aquasoil, I'm afraid I know far too little about it to offer any accurate or helpful info; better to leave that to someone else.

Ramshorns do indeed multiply, in response to the food available. When that food is algae, that's actually a very good thing, with their population tending to adapt to your need for a cleanup crew. Once the algae growth is made minimal by solving any underlying problems, the ramshorn population eventually becomes small too. Though personal preference weighs heavily here - what I might consider a small snail population and a few eggs, some others might consider intolerable. And I do like snails, just as long as they're not pond snails, which multiply far more on smaller food supplies. If you're not sure, skip them for now, as they'll be hard (or impossible) to remove later. Otos and the shrimp should be fine.


----------



## DarkCobra

Oh, I forgot something, rather important at that. 

Plants that are sensitive to Excel are sensitive to H2O2, and vica versa. So your vals are at risk _from both_, unless they're already well acclimated to Excel, maybe even to overdoses. Anacharis is considered the most Excel sensitive plant, and I have mine acclimated to the point where it doesn't even flinch at the full, original "One-Two" with 4tbsp. H2O2 per 10G; and neither does any other plant in my tank. So it is possible that you may have no negative effects on the plants, but not guaranteed.


----------



## sundragon

DarkCobra, Just wanted to thank you for this guide, it's taught me a lot. #subscribed


----------



## syzygy9

I thought I'd post my experience to the collective. Mine is a bit different as I accidentally added a 3rd punch.

My initial algae outbreak was due to not realizing that once my CO2 runs out I can't just run the lights and ferts like normal for 5 days before getting the tank refilled. Finally getting the CO2 running again slowed the growth of the BBA and staghorn, but after 4 weeks i couldn't take it and perfomed the 1-2 punch per the originally outlined 4ml of peroxide per gallon...i was taking no chances on not killing everything. Livestock included 2 cardinal tetras, a cory, 3 amanos and tons of ramshorn and MTS snails (very low bioload for a tank this size).

Anyway, apparently I did not realize that I had a CO2 leak. 2 hours after completing the treatment I ran out of CO2 again. I ceased ferts and turned off the lights for the 4 days it took before I could refill the tank and solve the leak issue.

Adding the 4 day black-out (the 3rd punch) may or may not have contributed to eliminating the algae, but I think it hurt a few of my plants. My blyxa had been doing great and it almost completely died..I have a few small sprigs left that I think are recovering. My Pogostemon Erectus was similar. The lower portion died, but I've replanted the tops and they seem to be recovering. All my Bacopa and hygro varients were completely unphased.

I did lose 1 cardinal, but he was very old and had looked terrible for nearly 6 months...I was planning to put him down anyway. I also lost a ton of the ramshorns, but interestingly the MTS were fine.

Overall I would call it a success. I am considering just adding this to my normal process every 3 months or so when I need to clean out the canister...though I will likely cut the peroxide dose in half unless I have another major algae outbreak for some reason.


----------



## DarkCobra

Wow, that's an unusual and interesting experience, thanks for posting it!

I do hope the blyxa recovers, it's one of my favorites and I hate to see it killed. I also wish I knew why so many people seem to lose ramshorns, when mine are completely unfazed. Do check ammonia levels for a bit - always wise when you have a large snail die-off, for any reason.

As for using this on a regular schedule as a mild maintenance treatment or preventative, I've been toying with it. It has potential. Excellent flow, without flow through the biofilter, is still needed for the H2O2 part. H2O2/Excel dosages will have to be reduced to the point where it still has a noticeable effect on algae, without any risk to fauna/flora, even if this means the effect on algae isn't so dramatic. It seems that will have to be found experimentally - and individually. As everything in my tanks is so resistant to H2O2/Excel, especially the staghorn which originally prompted the development of the "One-Two Punch", I doubt any dosage which proves useful for me would be useful to anyone else.


----------



## ChadRamsey

DarkCobra said:


> Chad, I took a look at part of your tank journal. Lights look about 36" from substrate. Hard to estimate exact lighting, but it seems in the ballpark, and not too much.
> 
> <<Edited out stupid question, don't know what I was thinking>> I'd do a nitrate test and see if you're overfertilizing. Unmodified EI plus lots of fish, and especially when there's not much plant mass, can do this. And will cause algae in my experience once it gets into _extreme_ excesses. Further reducing plant mass will make it worse, algae counts as plant mass, and you had some side effects to your plants - which might explain the rapid rebound.
> 
> Also, I'm concerned about your flow. The FX5 is rated optimistically at 600GPH with filter media installed, probably less with the spray bar. And most of your plants are at the bottom, farthest away from the flow. The usual guideline is to have 10X more GPH than your tanks size, or 1,250GPH, to break up the surface tension on leaves sufficiently to carry CO2. I don't see any supplemental powerheads or such, though I might have missed something.


the lights are 36" above the substrate. 

test results:
ph: 6.4 (midday)
Am 0
Nitrate 0
Nitrate 30
GH 10 
KH 10 
TDS 247

Flow might be an issue. Because i added a Koralia 1050 and my fish were gasping within an hour. I did NOT turn the co2 up just added the powerhead and co2 ppm shot up.






DarkCobra said:


> Oh, one more thing! Using CaNO3 instead of KNO3 removes your primary source of potassium. The potassium from KH2PO4 is much smaller, and not enough. And I don't see where you've replaced the missing potassium with something like K2SO4.


I was using the CaNO3 because i HAD nerites in the tank and their shells had a bit of pitting.

I do have potassium nitrate though and will be using it from now on then.


----------



## DarkCobra

Nitrates look fine. Seems like the powerhead might have moved CO2 around the tank a lot better, exposing the tetras that hang around the mid/bottom of the tank to what appeared to them to be a sudden increase. I'm curious what happens if you place a drop checker near the bottom of the tank, close to the plants that have algae.


----------



## ChadRamsey

DarkCobra said:


> Nitrates look fine. Seems like the powerhead might have moved CO2 around the tank a lot better, exposing the tetras that hang around the mid/bottom of the tank to what appeared to them to be a sudden increase. I'm curious what happens if you place a drop checker near the bottom of the tank, close to the plants that have algae.


 
just lowered it, ill let you know


----------



## ChadRamsey

ok, so the drop checker is about 3 inches off the substrate.

and this morning, about 1 hrs after the co2 came on, and when the light did come on, it was in the greenish/yellow. More yellowish really.

someone else brought up that since i have all mosses and root feeders, and the fact that my plant mass in this tank is so low that i should look into reducing my IE dosing.

your thoughts Dark?


----------



## DarkCobra

ChadRamsey said:


> someone else brought up that since i have all mosses and root feeders, and the fact that my plant mass in this tank is so low that i should look into reducing my IE dosing.


In short, I agree.

Technically, your nitrate levels look acceptable. In reality, there do seem to be a few exceptions. One of them is what I call the "buffet condition".

For this, we will be assuming specifically that organic wastes cause algae. And will be using ammonia as an example. It's not scientifically classified as an organic chemical, and neither does it directly cause algae - fishless cycling proves that. But it is the best understood waste product, and likely that other wastes work similarly.

Plants prefer ammonia over nitrate. It's easier, and takes less energy, for them to process. And it's definitely preferable to us for them to use it first, as well.

However, they cannot completely reject nitrate in favor of ammonia. Even if there is sufficient ammonia for their entire nitrogen needs alone, if nitrates are present, they will be forced to process some nitrate; which means they also process less ammonia. The higher the nitrates, the more this occurs.

Like a buffet featuring prime rib... If there's enough other appetizing items, even if they're not as good as the prime rib, you will end up filling up more on other items, and eating less prime rib. So when an algae problem can be solved by reducing fert levels to less than what are normally considered acceptable levels, thereby increasing uptake of excess organics, that's what I call the "buffet condition". It does not apply to most cases, and in fact I've only had it happen once.

But it may apply to you. You do in fact have a lot of fish, and therefore organic waste. Plus limited plant mass. It could be solved by altering your scape, getting rid of fish, or reducing your feeding; which I'm sure you'd rather avoid.

So reducing your dosage is certainly worth a try. Fish food, and therefore waste, provides mainly nitrogen and phosphorus; so those ferts are the ones you want to reduce most. Potassium and traces, not so much, if at all.

Increasing plant growth can also solve it. Even at your current lighting, and despite that more light typically encourages algae, adding more light _may_ have positive effect by tipping a more important balance. Strong emphasis on "may".

And of course, CO2 and flow. Your CO2 levels seem ok. But your flow isn't, either by the numbers, or by the odd effect adding the Koralia had on your fish. I have no clear explanation at this point for that. Maybe it was still a minor increase in CO2 at the level where the fish reside, coupled with low oxygen due in part to very low surface agitation; in which case pointing the Koralia at the water surface should work better. Or maybe it's kicking up an accumulation of organic wastes from the substrate, which are depleting oxygen. If anyone reading has any better ideas about this, please chime in!


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## ccbeauch

Dark Cobra, could you take a look at my tank and let me know if this type of treatment will fix my problem? I haven't tried any algae fixes yet other than adding excel back into my tank for the first time in the 3 months. I'm worried that my discus will die and that's why I have been letting this brown algae run rampant and kill most of my plants off... thanks for your time.


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## DarkCobra

CCbeauch, I read and enjoyed your journal.

Yes, my treatment will easily kill most of the algae that is there.

And it will put your discus at risk. Any chemical algae treatment will. You can plan and hope for it to be an acceptably small risk, but it can never be a zero risk. If the discus can be moved to a different tank for the H2O2 phase, that will help. So will monitoring afterwards in case a little damage to nitrifying bacteria and a lot of decomposing algae combined cause an ammonia spike.

But it will not solve your problem. You have not only algae, but a rapid decline in plant health. Something has gone seriously out of whack since you set up this tank. Until that's fixed, the plants will continue to fail, and the algae will come back. That much I can say with certainty.

Beyond that, I have no practical, real-world experience at all with dirted tanks. And though I've read plenty about them, I believe it's better in matters like these that I leave a proper diagnosis to those who have direct experience in this style to guide their answers.

Post a separate thread in the algae forum with full details. More people will see and respond to that than a tank journal. I'll keep an eye out for it, as I do want to follow along and see what happens.


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## Zlookup

Just got through reading this thread. Very good information. I invited some algae over to my tank when I upgrade my T5 lights to T5HO and didn't bother to reduce photoperiod or light distance from tank. Algae seems to have stabilized slightly now that those two parameters have been modified, but I'll likely give this a shot at some point in the near future. Would love to see more feedback on how shrimp handled the treatment.


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## discuspaul

Excellent write-up, Cobra - very informative and I truly enjoyed it.

In fact, I'm going to give it a go in my discus tank, in which I've been a touch plagued by fine film algae on the grasses and anubias, and which I'd dearly love to clean up.
I certainly know the risks doing something like this with discus, but I think I can moderate it somewhat to make it safe, and hopefully succeed with the treatment.
I believe my discus are pretty tough hombres - lol
Thanks again.


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## ccbeauch

So I took your advice and created a seperate thread for people to look at. Low and behold that is how I found your thread... Kinda funny. Anyway this is it and hopefuly one of you smart algae assasins can help me out. 

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=278482&highlight=


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## ccbeauch

discuspaul said:


> Excellent write-up, Cobra - very informative and I truly enjoyed it.
> 
> In fact, I'm going to give it a go in my discus tank, in which I've been a touch plagued by fine film algae on the grasses and anubias, and which I'd dearly love to clean up.
> I certainly know the risks doing something like this with discus, but I think I can moderate it somewhat to make it safe, and hopefully succeed with the treatment.
> I believe my discus are pretty tough hombres - lol
> Thanks again.


 
Could you give me advice on what part of his process you changed and how that worked out? I have a 20 gallon tank sitting around that I was thinking about transfering my discus to while the treatment goes on.


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## DarkCobra

*Ccbeauch:* LOL. I saw your new thread, and the first response you got - was in part a referral back here! Sorry about that. Maybe it's CO2 alone, as was suggested, but I nudged it in the direction of uncovering any other underlying issues.

*Zlookup, Discuspaul:* Thanks! And I'm glad you've found this thread helpful. Keep sharing any experiences, and tweaks used to tailor it to specific situations. Others will surely improve this a lot further than I ever could on my own.


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## ccbeauch

*DarkCobra:* It was funny that when I asked for help, I was repointed this way... I guess that is just how it is sometimes. Maybe someone else with a similar problem might show up with different advice or the same. I plan on trying the H2O2 later today anyway. I set up a seperate tank yesterday with 20 gallons of tank water and one bag out of my regular filter. I also threw in my albino pleco over night just to make sure it would be safe for the discus today. I figured if she died, then there would be no way the discus would live. This is part because the tank is located inside the base of my current tank stand and was used as the sump for the bigger tank when salt water occupied its confinements. I was pretty sure I cleaned the salt out 8 months ago but just to be on the safe side, smelled it, then tossed her in. I'll probably let everyone know how it went tomorrow.


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## VJM

I did this yesterday, and it really worked. Tank looks great! However, due to being a noob, I used regular Flourish instead of Excel. Totally thought they were the same thing. Have I doomed my tank to another algae outbreak? 

Seachem really needs to rename and repackage this line. Even the bottles are virtually identical.


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## Zlookup

VJM said:


> I did this yesterday, and it really worked. Tank looks great! However, due to being a noob, I used regular Flourish instead of Excel. Totally thought they were the same thing. Have I doomed my tank to another algae outbreak?
> 
> Seachem really needs to rename and repackage this line. Even the bottles are virtually identical.


The nutrients you added would feed the algae instead of hurt it, but given its weakened state, it may still get stunted slightly by a nutrient spike. Would eventually rebound though I am guessing. Another 50% water change followed by excel dosing may help. Or you can just dose excel too.

I also tried this last night. I'll report on the effects after 48 hrs.


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## aokashi

flourish is different from excel. excel is a carbon source, and flourish is primarily macro nutrients. (correct me if I'm wrong)


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## DarkCobra

You're right, Aokashi. And I agree the naming could be better, seen plenty of instances of it leading to confusion.


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## vvDO

aokashi said:


> flourish is different from excel. excel is a carbon source, and flourish is primarily macro nutrients. (correct me if I'm wrong)


Flourish is a product line by seachem which includes excel, comprehensive, and other ferts.


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## aokashi

I meant as in seachem flourish
as opposed to seachem flourish excel

I've seen people buy the wrong products online because of the naming...


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## VJM

I am crossing my fingers that the algae will stay gone. Glad I have these tanks set up with no fish yet. The learning curve has been steep. 

Now I know. Seachem Flourish not the same as Seachem Florish Excel.


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## stevekx500

I did this about a 1/2 hr ago & was wondering when I should start seeing results? I have a small break out of BBA & I don't see any kind of fizzing yet... Just curious as 2 when I will notice anything. Thx n advance, Steve


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## ccbeauch

SOOOoooo it didn't work... And it just hit me that I thought I doubled the dose, when really all I did was give the 1.5 tbsp per 10 gallons.... dumb. I put in 9 tbsp of H2O2 for a 72 bow tank thinking that is was 1 tbsp to 10 gallons at the time of adding. I also moved all my fish other than a pleco to another tank to make sure it was safe. Not really much of a change but my swords do look a little bright green now. I'm pretty sure none of the algae died at all. I'm going to try again next week. This time when I took the filter bio stuff out, a ton of CRAP came out and filled the tank that must have been under it... I'm guess the H2O2 got eaten up by that before it had a chance to attack the furry algae. Algae 1 - Ccbeauch 0. well played algae, well played.


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## DarkCobra

*stevekx500:* The algae itself won't fizz directly, as you might have seen with an H2O2 spot treatment.

Instead, you'll get an overall fizz. Could be mild. Or could be intense, if you normally have pearling plants and the water is already thoroughly saturated with oxygen. It resembles the "false pearling" many see after a water change.

If successful, the BBA will typically start to discolor within a day or two, and start decomposing around day three.


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## DarkCobra

*ccbeauch:* Just saw your ninja post.  The same I wrote to stevekx500 applies to you and your BBA, as well. 1.5 tbsp. per 10G is a little light, but you'll need to wait three days to know the results.


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## ccbeauch

A side plus though, my vaccume hose hasn't been this clean since I bought it! My had was also cleaned and purged of its dead skin and looks very clean as well. Guess there were some pluses from this blunder. Hopefuly the algae doesn't build up an immunity from this low dose by next week...


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## ccbeauch

*DarkCobra:* Well I'm glad it has to be 3 days. I kinda thought it would just disolve before my eyes or something. Maybe if I cross my fingers it will work and I wont have to redo this. Catching the Marlboro and the Blue diamond took 30 minutes... I felt like the part time guy at petsmart trying to catch that one specific black molly after a new shipment had just come in.

also, it took me 30 minutes to drain the tank down and another 25 to fill it. Is that too long of a process?


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## DarkCobra

*ccbeauch:* There was someone who had some losses earlier in the thread, which may have been caused in part by a long drain/fill time. But that was at the original and stronger 4 tbsp./10G recommendation. The new recommendation provides a greater safety margin, and you dosed below even that. So I don't expect any issues, but as always, keep me informed of anything you notice.


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## stevekx500

DarkCobra said:


> *stevekx500:* The algae itself won't fizz directly, as you might have seen with an H2O2 spot treatment.
> 
> Instead, you'll get an overall fizz. Could be mild. Or could be intense, if you normally have pearling plants and the water is already thoroughly saturated with oxygen. It resembles the "false pearling" many see after a water change.
> 
> If successful, the BBA will typically start to discolor within a day or two, and start decomposing around day three.


Awesome. I will keep an eye on it for a couple days. My plants r always covered n air bubbles after my water changes till the next day so I will just keep an eye on it. I did dose more than 2 Tbsp per 10g but not quite 4 Tbsp per 10g so we will see. Hopefully it works. Have a good 1.


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## stevekx500

Also, I am due this evening 2 dose my micro & macro ferts. With having 2 dose 2 nite should I hold off since I just nuked my tank? If i wait how long?


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## DarkCobra

Don't skip any ferts. Sometimes I'll even add a bit extra, if the treatment wasn't done on a regular water change day, to help bring levels back up and closer to normal.


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## ccbeauch

Well I did take out all of my fish just in case it was to stressful on them. I was more or less wondering if the long time would be bad for my regular plants seeing as they are the only things in there during this process.


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## Zlookup

Gave this a go few days back. Since all my fish are in QT tank due to ich and velvet (should have QT'd before instead of after, but that's what I get for rushing things), figured it was a good time to nuke the tank of all annoyances. Shutoff HOB filter and left powerhead running. Put the H2O2 at the full 4 vs 2Tbsp dosing recommendations for about 20mins. Only thing in the tank were snails which appear to still be kicking after 48 hrs+. 

All plants came out unharmed (anubias, swords, vals, moss, riccia, hairgrass, microswords, water sprite, and misc others). A little melting on the vals, but they were already melting a little from all the shuffling I've done to them lately. Treatment did not seem to speed up or do any more damage. 

WC 50%, turned HOB filter back on and dosed excel. Again, no affect on plants that I can see. Used a turkey baster to draw in water and spray around the substrate, rocks and plants to dislodge some diatoms and misc dead algae. Most of the diatom is now cleared. 

I will say, the H2O2 treatment made the water crystal clear. I thought my water was pretty good already, but didn't realize how much clearer it could get until I saw the results of the H2O2 treatment. Side affect is that the treatment seemed to also get rid of some flatworms on the glass, including some planaria. At least, i couldn't see any afterwards since. Did nothing to the ditritus worms though which are enjoying the predator free tank for the moment. 

I put in some safeguard yesterday at the .1g/10Gal dosing yesterday as an additional cleaning measure in case the planaria and other pests are still lurking. Will let things run and do a 50% WC tomorrow, followed by another one the day after.


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## Zlookup

stevekx500 said:


> Is it normal 4 a tank 2 appear cloudy after 24 hrs? I did this yesterday & got home from work 2day & my tank is just a tad bit cloudy. I used about 3 Tbsp & I did dose all my ferts later n the evening. Thx, Steve


Did you turn off your filter during the treatment or remove the filter media?


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## stevekx500

I removed my media, yes


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## bitFUUL

Sweet concept, will surely sub and use.


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## DarkCobra

Odd. I see the quote about cloudy Steve's cloudy water, but I can't find the original post.

It's not really normal, and may or may not be serious. I'd recommend an ammonia test, and find out for sure.


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## stevekx500

Anyways, it is definitely an ammonia spike. I dosed Prime & will do a water change in the morning.


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## Zlookup

stevekx500 said:


> The reason you do not see my posting is because it got deleted! Got a private message today from lauraleellbp saying my posts will be deleted from now on if there is "text speak" in them... Anyways, it is definitely an ammonia spike. I dosed Prime & will do a water change in the morning.


Any thoughts as to why the spike may have occurred? Media dry out, dead snails etc...?

Also, after 3 days all the diatom algae seems gone, though I still have misc other thread like algae and what not. Can't figure out why as one of the worse spots is right in front of the powerhead where the H2O2 and excel would have had the most exposure I would have thought.


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## stevekx500

Zlookup said:


> Any thoughts as to why the spike may have occurred? Media dry out, dead snails etc...?
> 
> Also, after 3 days all the diatom algae seems gone, though I still have misc other thread like algae and what not. Can't figure out why as one of the worse spots is right in front of the powerhead where the H2O2 and excel would have had the most exposure I would have thought.


i


I put my media n a small bucket of tank water. EVERYTHING survived, so far... I'm not 2 worrided about it though. I will just keep testing my water & dose Prime everyday till its done doin its thing


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## stevekx500

The BBA on one of my leaves is turning a redish color. Is this normal in the "dying off" process?


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## DarkCobra

*Zlookup:* Thread algae, if killed, takes longer to decompose on its own. You can try a bit of manual removal to test - if it's dead, you'll find it fragile by now, and separates more easily from plants.

*Stevekx500:* Yep, red BBA is dead BBA.  And glad you're comfortably dealing with an ammonia spike. If you should later figure out what caused it, let us know.


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## Zlookup

DarkCobra said:


> *Zlookup:* Thread algae, if killed, takes longer to decompose on its own. You can try a bit of manual removal to test - if it's dead, you'll find it fragile by now, and separates more easily from plants.
> 
> *Stevekx500:* Yep, red BBA is dead BBA.  And glad you're comfortably dealing with an ammonia spike. If you should later figure out what caused it, let us know.


Did another WC and a lot of the algae did come off fairly easily with siphoning. Riccia is starting to look bleached out a bit so not sure if it'll survive and some Vals were melting at the base. Not all. They should survive but definitely was impacted. Overall, I'd say I'd be ok with doing it again though probably with half strength since I have moved the shrimp in and don't want to take the chance ( even though the snails seemed ok and even laid eggs ).


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## stevekx500

*Stevekx500:* Yep, red BBA is dead BBA.  And glad you're comfortably dealing with an ammonia spike. If you should later figure out what caused it, let us know.[/QUOTE]

AWESOME!!! As far as dealing w/ ammonia spike - no biggie. I have been into aquariums for 16 yrs so it doesn't bother me to much because I know how to deal w/ it  & thank you to everyone on here that has helped me thru this new way of dealing w/ BBA! Best of luck to everyone that comes across this thread & decides to use it! I can honestly say it works wonders!!! roud:


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## denske

Anybody use this method for Diatoms? I've had them now close to 2 months.


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## DarkCobra

*Denske:* I haven't had a serious and persistent diatom bloom to try it on, but it's eliminated any small traces, and several others reported the treatment wipes larger quantities out effectively. I also took a peek at the subject lines for your posts within the past two months. Unless I missed something in that brief check, you haven't posted up a thread providing tank details and requesting help for the diatom issue. It's always a good idea to try and diagnose any underlying problem prior to trying a chemical treatment. Or at least at the same time you start the treatment, if the algae has gotten so bad that you need to buy some time.


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## puopg

I am currently trying it on a very small diatom resurgence. I will report with its effects at ~25% dose thats 1tbps/10G. Also will report if UG gets affected.


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## Zlookup

denske said:


> Anybody use this method for Diatoms? I've had them now close to 2 months.


While I was not targeting them, I did note in one of my post that the treatment was very effective against diatoms.


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## bitFUUL

Trying this out on the 30g in my sig, let's hope for good results.


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## puopg

Reporting back with Diatom results @ 25% strength. I did not see much of a change after 2 days. I think those who had success must've done full treatment. Will report again in a week.


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## darthmilmo

OK, so I followed the directions in the original post and this is the pictures 2 days after the treatment. The aquarium on the left was the one covered in green algae. The one on the right has minimal black algae and hair algae, which has slowed down since the treatment. I just wanted to say that all the fish and plants are alive and well


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## jester56

Completed the "1-2" yesterday. Went exactly as described in DC's instructions. Calculated to use 40 gallons of my 50. After removing canister media, H2O2 was introduced. Used the revised 2 tablespoon/10 gallon ratio. Introduced 8 tablespoons to tank while running medialess filter and Koralia pump. Plenty of circulation. Went for the prescribed 15 minute circulation time. At end, I pulled 50% out and started the refill. Checked the transfer hoses and found that they were coated in several kinds of algae. Used the MagFox cleaner. It worked ok, after a lot of elbow grease. Literally fell apart after two hoses and scratched the crap out of the exterior of the hoses. Will use brush/trimmer string method next time... As water was coming back up, added Excel as directed. Stood back and watched the gorgeous pearling on the plants. This morning, everyone is there. Plants ok. Fish ok. I'd have to say it was a successful operation!


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## bernynhel

Been battling green water algae since I so brilliantly cultivated it a couple of months ago with a total tank replant, practically turning the substrate upside down plus leaving 4 39w T5s on for nearly 30 hours when I fell asleep for 12 hours during a little "break" in the new planting. Luckily, I had placed the light fixture back on the tank before my nap to admire my progress or else the green water algae might not have flourished so.

I tried the "one-two" punch as soon as I finished reading the OP yesterday: 16 tbsp (250ml/9oz) of H202 in my 55 allowing about 40+ gallons since I have rocks and also elevated substrate as a couple of "hills" on the sides. Ran my Eheim Ecco Pro Easy 80 empty of media baskets plus my Rio 400 full blast with the duck bill super thrust nozzle for crazy circulation. After 15 minutes I used both of my siphon vacuums to do a 50% water change with pristine RO water. I added the Excel when the tank was half empty and had it filled within 5 minutes - total water change was less than 20 minutes since I had 4 5 gallon jugs of water ready and so only had to fill one from my holding tank which is only about 30 steps away. 

My 50 neon tetras, 8 Coreys, 5 green tiger barbs and 2 Thai algae eaters did not seem to dig it not one iota. Upon the shock of the H202 dump the barbs immediately quit pestering each other, the neons balled up into a still life of a school in the center of the tank, the algae eaters immediately quit begging for food and dashed into a thicket and all the coreys stopped wriggling around on the bottom and just froze where they were. I forgot to check out my assassins at the time to see how they were doing but they're here today along with all the others.

Today I have recharged my Vortex D-1 and will run it while scrubbing all the remnants of the (DEAD?) GWA from the glass and rocks. So we'll see.


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## ccbeauch

It worked!!!! Almost all of my dark brown algae is gone and now my plants are starting to grow fast and bright green again. I did one treatment of 9 tbsp for th 72 gallons without fish and then 10 tbsp with the discus and cardinals and plecos. Low and behold no deaths! Untile a couple of days later and then one cardinal vanished?! Not sure if the H2O2 killed him off or the discus wanted a midnight snack. Anyway, thanks a bunch for turning my tank around!


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## AJ12

Just tried this in my 150 gallon to combat the start of a hair algae outbreak. Tank has everything from shrimp and micro crabs to zebra plecos and nerite snails and nothing seemed to be even slighty stressed from the H2O2 and i added more then recommended. Will chime back in after a few days with updates


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## larns576

Did 60mL for a 20g tank and lost 2 furcata rainbows. Cardinal tetras seemed stressed as well. Brown algae and green spot algae seems slightly diminished after 24hrs


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## O2surplus

I performed the "One - Two Punch" on my tank last week. I had an abundance of BBA and other types of algae that were wreaking havoc in my tank, hence the need for treatment.
I'm happy to report that it worked for me. The BBA and other Algae are dead and I didn't lose any fish during the treatment.


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## AngryAnkylosaur

I've done this on my tank due to having a tonne of GHA and Cyano and a patch of BBA. Unfortunately I don't have any Excel so I just did the H2O2 part @ 3TBS per 10G. After a couple days it was all gone. However I had a bunch of healthy, propagating spiral val that all melted away after this treatment. Funny thing is they were the most healthy plant in the tank. I guess vals just don't respond well to this.


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## darthmilmo

I can confirm survival of red cherry shrimp, snails (rams, pond, mystery/apple), neons tetra (which are typically finicky breed), flying foxes, and panda cory. I even did this 3 times in ome month as I was fighting green algae... everything subsided and tank is looking great.


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## Vepr

Tried this on my 20 long with good results. No fauna deaths and the only flora issues might have been a small ball of riccia I had free floating so no big deal.


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## vasol

gona try this on my tank within the next few days, i have huge amounts of bba and gha. my one question is can api co2 booster be used instead of excel? ive read that they are basically the same, but just wanted to make sure


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## vnghost

vasol said:


> gona try this on my tank within the next few days, i have huge amounts of bba and gha. my one question is can api co2 booster be used instead of excel? ive read that they are basically the same, but just wanted to make sure


yes, and so can metricide 14 which is stronger.


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## Absntmind

I tried this three days ago with limited results, yet no deaths. I used 2 tbls per 10 gallons calculating for 45 gallons in a 55 gallon tank. Removed bio-media fro my canister and added an old power head to increase flow. Ran for 15 minutes then did a quick 50% water change followed by an excel dose.

The only reaction I saw was from nerites which made a break for the top of the tank but are now fine. All other fish seemed ok (Bolivian Rams, Hatchet Fish, Upside down catfish, glass catfish, oto's). Plant wise there has been some melting on the vals, but that’s all.

Some of the staghorn turned red while the rest seemed unaffected. Other algae did not appear effected. No noticeable algae die off.

I will continue treating with excel at normal dosage and give it till this weekend when I do another water change till I decide whether to try again with a slightly higher dose. Hoping it hurt it enough at least for the plants to now out compete it (algae). Will update if there is any changes or if I choose to try this method again.


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## Absntmind

Update: It's been one week and I have noticed a decrease in algae, with most of it dying or dead. Since I was already dosing excel daily I would have to attribute this to the H2O2 helping out. I've continued dosing excel as well as increased flourish comprehensive to twice a week. I did a water change this weekend and now see oto's on the leaves attacking the dead algae. In my case I think the H2O2 weakened the algae and the increased cleaning with extra ferts is helping the plants out compete it now. The only loss I had was my vals melting, but I already see new shoots sprouting from the sand so they are coming back fast.


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## LeMoine

For anyone weary of this method, I will testify that it has worked amazingly! My tank is home to galaxy rasboras, harlequins, 1 SAE, and several amano shrimp, all of which survived the treatment without any issues. I was worried it might affect my shrimp, but I was very wrong. I have been battling BBA for months now and was almost ready to give up and start over. However this method has given me a second chance. It has only been 4 days since the treatment and the BBA has decreased by easily 50% or more. If you are dealing with BBA this is the way to go! Thank you so much for posting/developing such a wonderful method!


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## mo2vation

*Great thread - gonna try this today.*

Soup. Pea soup. Unreal.... HELP!!!!

I'm new to this. I get that.

But Algae has never been an issue. We've had up to 9 tanks... all sparkling. Its been heavenly.

On my Black Monster - the 90g... its just unreal.

The tank goes into this dive - where it get cloudy-ish, to darker - to SOUP. Full on green fuzz on the glass. This takes HOURS. This tank crashes hard.

I have staggered the lighting... so its not on full ZOT for 8 hours. I thought I had this thing together. Tonight, it crashed. 

I have green fuzz on the glass, the water is unclear. It took a few hours today. I finally killed all the lights - I can't look at this thing right now.

What is going on? Diadems? Phosphates? Voodoo?

Seriously - I'm perplexed. I'm doing nothing different to this tank. Sump, light, w/c, fish... this isn't that complicated.


Water chemistry from my drip test kit is great - no Amm, no Ni and very low Na.

I can't handle draining and scraping every 4 days. Making me nuts when every other tank in the house is sparkling.

I'm so glad I found this thread. 

I think factors exacerbating the Algae Farm:

This tank gets remarkable light. I've started lighting in shifts with all three shifts on for a very short time (maybe 2 hours). Total light is about 8 hours a day. Just PAR metered it... lots of light in this tank. Full CO2, EI, etc.

My take is there are simply not enough plants to fight off the Algae advance. The repens cover maybe 20% if the substrate, the very young Blyxa another 20%, the very young Dwarf Sag another 40%... that leaves tons of space with nothing growing. Acres of empty substrate. Just the edges with the Vals and the Appos and the Crypts. 

I'm thinking of putting some uber fast growing stuff unto the sump (like Elodea), and lighting it off cycle - so I can get the benefits of monster plant growth without impacting the DT.

First comes the 1,2 Punch.


*SUMP Bypass *- I put together some pipe - and I'll run the drain from the overflow into a 5G bucket! I'll drop my pump in there - completely bypassing the sump and its huge Bene Bacto supply! 

OK - here are some photos of this vexing vermin.




















That sharp line must be where I cleaned this weekend.

*sigh*

Finishing the Sump Bypass, and will dose with Hydro in a bit.

I'll be back to share results.

-Ken



* Edit *

Here is the before:










Here is the after - immediately after re-filling and dosing with Excel.


----------



## cephelix

Promising results from everyone.

Gonna try this later this evening for the diatom and thread algae covering my DHG and glosso, for some reason it doesn't appear on any other plants.

*Aftermath*

Tried the one-two punch adjusted accordingly with the new recipe(2Tbps/10G). I have a 3G tank, so that works out to be about 0.6Tbps.
Before, my glosso was covered in diatoms and hair algae and were dying off.
Added another powerhead into my already small tank so for 15 minutes it was a washing machine.
Then added the H2O2 and started counting down.
At the end of the 15 minutes, I drained about 80% of the water. At this point the glosso was still submerged.
New water was not added immediately as I took the opportunity to hook up some new equipment and performed the normal tank maintenance. All in all, it took about 45 minutes before I added new water.
Once the water was added, I dosed 1.3ml of Excel, calculated accordingly, as I don't normally dose Excel in this tank.

As of now, there are no diatoms on any of my plants. Hopefully the prolonged H2O2 soak hasn't killed off the rest of my glosso.
Can't comment on livestock though as my tank currently has none.

At the same time I've also reduced my lighting period to 6 hours instead of 10 hours to see if the extended lighting period was the cause of the diatom bloom.


----------



## vasol

this treatment worked great, cleared 85% of my green hair algae and black beard algae within around 2 weeks. would highly recommend! this thread should be stickied


----------



## Simpsoid

Just want to say this worked well for me. Took a long time to do it though.

I have an Aqua One Grande 120 tank. 75 Gallons (285 L) with about 50G (200 L) of actual water. Had issues with thread algae and staghorn (or clado? not too sure on this).

Dosed with 6% at around 160mL (a little over the 2tbsp rating which would have come out at 150mL). Left it for 15 minutes exactly and then started emptying. Emptying took around 10 minutes and then I filled back up which took around another 10 minutes.

Had massive flow throughout the tank the whole time.

Drop checker went dark blue. No CO2 in the tank. The next day I dosed 5 capfuls of Excel 250mL bottle (recommended dose) and then another 2 the next day (tried a little overdose). I've been dosing 1 capful per day (recommended dose).

The next day the staghorn went a bit reddish and on the second day it was a deep red almost everywhere in the tank. I actually found places where it was and I didn't know, since it has now gone red its obvious. Thread algae has gone basically white and will probably continue to die.

Maybe 97% of both staghorn and thread has died off. Will try another dosing in 2 weeks to do the rest.

I have a Bristlenose Pleco (female, fully grown), a Rainbowfish (crimson spot) and countless Red Cherry Shrimp (some are bamboo shrimp I think). Neither fish was affected much. Bristlenose didn't like it too much but she coped a bit better once the fresh water was in. It looks like she got some "clouding" on her forehead, like a fungus growing there. Not sure what that is but she seems healthy enough. She also has tried to swim out of the tank a few times in the last few days (up the top wet/dry filter downpipe). I wouldn't even know if any of the RCS have been affected but they don't seem to be.

I have Crypts, a Sword, HM, Hygro, Subwassertang and java moss. I took the Subwassertang and some java moss out when I dosed and placed them in after the tank was refreshed.

Nothing has happened to ay of the main plants but the HM has gone very pale / almost white. It still has some green in it but I think over the next few days it will melt away. No big issue though.

All in all this looked good. I did overdose slightly with the Excel and H2O2. If I were to do this again in the future I would follow the results exactly as they are for a better result.

2 US tablespoons (28mL. 14mL per tablespoon) for each 10 Gallons (38L).


----------



## mo2vation

A follow up on my treatment, above.

Treated it twice. No more algae on the glass.

However, the water is still greenish. The tank is cloudy, to be sure. 

And I had massive melt on my Vals. My aponogeton ulvaceus lost several of its larger leaves. All else is good.

The green haze is giving me pause. Any ideas?


-Ken


----------



## jfynyson

I did just the H2O2 punch yesterday in my 135gal with very minor fuzz & staghorn (hitched a ride with some new plants I got). I did the equiv of 3 tbsp / 10 gal for 15 min w/ 2 power heads set to laminar flow. Did a 75+% water change and notice several of my platies couldn't take it. So, immediately did another 15-20% water change after I had refilled the tank. Turns out platies are very sensitive to this and I had one cardinal & 1 neon die today. It's weird though, they didn't just die but rather got themselves caught in the powerhead suction and were too weak to get off and died. All other fish fared well. Also odd is that one of the platies had just given birth (AGAIN) and the frye seemed to do well (I didn't realize the birthing had ocurred until after my water change. My best guess is that since the platies like the higher water column they got the initial dosing directly in their gills.

I'll know in a few days how things went but the false pearling was amazing during my water changes so I'm confident I'll see some results. If this alone does not do the trick I'll get some Excel and do a follow up 1-2 punch (full method) in a few weeks but I'll be sure to only use 1.5-2 tbsp / 10 gal equiv.


----------



## nanous

1 US tablespoon = 14.7867648 ml 
New recommended dose is 2tbs(29.57ml)/10g or 2.96ml/g

26 gallon tank, dosing for 15g (conservative) after removing 10 liters with the filter media = 44.36ml h2o2. 

report back to follow.


----------



## nanous

added more like 45ml over 20 mins... 20ml at -20, another 20ml at -15, and 5ml at -10. 

so far so good, did make one mistake though. Fresh water was sitting out on my enclosed porch, but it is unseasonably cold right now and it dropped the tank temp below 70. Stopped adding water to not exacerbate the situation, will finish topping off when the tank warms up. Added a second heater to bring it back to temp more quickly. I'll report back again tomorrow.

update: 1 red eye tetra floater right after water change (shock i think), everything else looks good including snails and amano shrimp. got moderate "pearling". hope this kills the BGA ive been battling and stops the oncoming BBA outbreak.

update: BGA gonzo. thank god. still have BBA, but it isn't spreading. I did not do the "second punch" with excel because I have pressurized co2. Lost one red eye tetra immediately after treatment, snails survived.


----------



## Fiftymeatballs

After realizing my lighting schedule was too intense I ceased ferts and reduced my TMC Grobeam tiles to 50% for a few days. I am now planning on only running my lights 50% for the time being, these things are powerful! Next step was to wipe out the new algae outbreaks the lighting caused. I have my C02 running max, can't make any more adjustments in that area, and have been using EI dosing. Seems the only thing to do is raise my lights higher and reduce the strength and length of photo period. Keep in mind I dose Excel regularly but just the recommended dose or a little bit more. The pellia and fissiden seem to hate it so I really want to stop using it. 

I decided to try out this threads procedure. I used the 4 Tblspoon dose on a 20gallon long. Had my Vortech Mp10 full blast, and shut off the filter. I also decided to just remove the Otto's to my quarantine to avoid added stress. It's a new tank waiting for it to stabilize before I purchase CRS. 

Two days later I have found red patches of dead stag horn near the Blyxa's base. Green hair algae seems to have ceased any new growth on the HC. 
Also Spirogyra has stopped new growth, the few strands I can see left in the tank aren't green anymore.

Only plant damage I'm seeing was to the riccia, this was expected but it did have spirogyra mixed in it and I didn't want to risk reintroducing that after this method was competed. I figure it should bounce back. 

All the rest of the plants below seem fine for now:
Blyxa
Glosso
HC
Dwarf Hair
Round Pellia 
Fissiden


----------



## EddyBearr

I'm considering doing a one-two punch, since I have to tear down my tank anyway to replace the substrate.

I'm thinking it'd be better to do separate treatments in separate containers for separate plants, and housing the fish elsewhere until I'm done with everything.

I've got two crypts, some java ferns, amazon swords, duckweed, myriophyllum, cabomba, and wisteria.

I'm wonder if the one-two punch would kill my plants if their unrooted and sitting in a bucket while treating them (especially my crypts, but my crypts barely have any algae on them at all.)

What's everybody's thoughts on this?

And let's say I did do two separate treatments (one for stronger/leafy plants, one for stem plants,) would what should the dosage for each be? The plants would be free-floating in a bucket (with a lot of circulation, of course. Probably a media-less filter & a bubbler.)


----------



## WheeledGoat

Welp, some hair algae started to take hold so tonight I pulled the trigger on the ONE-TWO PUNCH. Details delineated;

29gal tank w/ pressurized co2, based dose on 25gal water
turned cannister filter off
dosed 120ml h2o2 (3.2 tbsp/10gal)
15min of manually pointing a circulation pump around the tank to ensure no dead spots and adequate flow
50% water change
triple dose Excel (45ml)
turned filter back on
Of course, nothing to report on the algae front yet. I actually did an OK job manually removing the worst of it before 1-2 punching it. I didn't wait until it got beyond control, hoping to head it off.

Neon tetras seemed bored with my shenanigans this evening.
Black skirt tetras were actively schooling around the tank, wondering when I was going to finish up and playing in the currents.
My cory cat may have been a little bothered, or maybe just perking up - kept zipping up to the top and swimming around at different levels - didn't appear to be stressed.
Albino pleco couldn't care less.
My fancy guppies, however, are indeed showing some signs of disapproval and stress. Especially the larger female yellow one. She zipped around the tank splashing the surface and freaking out a bit there toward the end of the treatment as I was finishing the water change. I don't know if it's my imagination but is the top of her head and front 1/3 of the top of her body bleached clear now? Or was it like that before? All the guppies are uncharacteristically huddled in the corner now, even 30 min after completion.

Will update with more, wanted to type this out while I'm thinking about it.


----update next morning----
eek!
cory cat is gone
4 black skirt tetras are gone too!
guppies are at the top of tank huddled together, not behaving normally but don't appear to be under acute distress anymore


----update 24hrs later----
came home after work to 1 more lost black skirt tetra - only 1 remains from the original 6
guppies are swimming at different levels now but still aren't their normal playful selves
neon tetras are seemingly unaffected - didn't lose a single one of the 8, and the albino pleco and snail are seemingly no worse for the wear

but nobody is terribly excited to eat - usually everybody comes a 'runnin at feeding time, but they're halfheartedly poking at the food

water in tank is a little cloudy after the treatment, when it was pretty clear beforehand


----36hrs later----
woke up this morning, last black skirt tetra is dead. they never showed signs of stress (that I saw)! maybe a little extra gulping but not hanging out at the surface or anything.
fancy guppies are still kinda timid but all are still alive
all 8 neon tetras, the snail and pleco appear completely unaffected.

maybe half of the algae hairs are white. i really hope the rest goes and isn't going to hang on after all this!
water still cloudy
did a 25% water change


----60hrs later----
as of this morning, the cloudiness seems to be clearing though it's a far cry from normal still. 
guppies are back to normal, playing in the currents. neon tetras have been unaffected throughout, as have the snail & pleco. everybody is eating.
all water params are WNL, no mini cycle or anything.
95% of the algae seems to have been taken out. there's a couple areas that I'll spot-treat soon, but I want to see the tank fully recovered first and clear water.


----------



## freph

Tried this last week with just H2O2 because I had no excel. Did a large chunk in my spirogyra issue on the 20L. Tried it again today with Excel. Hopefully it'll kill the stragglers. Had no livestock deaths and moss browned up a bit from H2O2 but that was to be expected. I'll see how it goes this time.


----------



## EddyBearr

Did a relatively high dosage one-two punch in some buckets.

The buckets were 5 gallons, but probably had about 3.5 & 4.5 gallons of water.

In each bucket, I put ~50ml of H2O2, let them circulate pretty wel (85gph I think) for a half hour, then had them stay in their buckets for a few days with excel.

My 3.5 gallon bucket had my bogwood and leafy plants (java fern, amazon sword, crypts,) and it was eradicated of its algae problems (mostly BBA)
my 4.5 gallon bucket had my stem plants (wisteria, cabomba, myriophyllum,) and I saw little change with the algae. It lost its BBA, which is great, but I saw no reduction at all, not one bit, in fuzz algae that has covered the leaves and stems pretty well.

I'm going to try killing it all with a really high dosage, and really direct (all manual) to see if it even reacts.


----------



## vasol

this method worked very well for me in 2 tanks, one had really bad black beard algae and the other had black beard algae and green hair. this thread should be stickied!!!!


----------



## vvDO

WheeledGoat said:


> Welp, some hair algae started to take hold so tonight I pulled the trigger on the ONE-TWO PUNCH. Details delineated;
> 
> 29gal tank w/ pressurized co2, based dose on 25gal water
> turned cannister filter off
> dosed 120ml h2o2 (3.2 tbsp/10gal)
> 15min of manually pointing a circulation pump around the tank to ensure no dead spots and adequate flow
> 50% water change
> triple dose Excel (45ml)
> turned filter back on


Why did you dose triple the recommended dose of Excel? Do you normally dose this high? I believe this may be the cause. Have you also checked ammonia and nitrite levels or perform any water changes since you treated the tank?


----------



## Flear

i'm hessitant about using chemicals myself

i'm not sure how it's going to affect everything else in the tank

i see algae, it's non-vascular, cladophora, thread algae, staghorn algae, ... 

spot dose for excel and you can get the base, but the rest of the algae is independent. if the base dies the algae floats away.

if algae is affected by excel what about the rest of the plants ?
it's all plant life, the vascular ones we want, and some of the non-vascular ones (ferns and a few others), but they're all plants, we want some of these plants, others some people don't want.

if excel harms algae because it's in a high concentration for spot treatments, ... what is excel doing to the rest of our aquarium ?

some algae is great food for various critters in the tank, what of these critters ?

Edit:
it reminds me of prescription drugs, ... those haven't always been beneficial and have unforeseen consequences, even if they deal with the issue they are used for adequately.


----------



## jfynyson

Any others try this method against "Fuzz Algae" ? There's not hardly any info out there on this stuff. I read one post in this thread that mentioned the fuzz alage remained untouched by this method.


----------



## Bserve

Should I move the inhabitants of my 60-P to my qt tank while I do this? There are 9 neons, 1 oto, and 1 glo-fish.


----------



## Bserve

I tried this in the morning. Hopefully it works.


----------



## jfynyson

It appears that even doing this method two weeks back to back leaves the green beard algae (sometimes called fuzz algae) laughing at the attempts of this procedure. I've observed otos die from as little as 2tbs/10gal equivalent.

I've even removed a few of the plants and performed 5 min H2O2 dips after performing this process twice in 2 weeks and it still remains and is growing and showing up in new places !!!

I've done about everything I know to do but wait a month and see if it goes away on it's own. I have high light (80-100 PAR at substrate) using BuildmyLED.com planted tank fixtures in my 135gal, pressurized CO2, and dose EI. Nitrates seem to stay at ~40ppm and Phos at 2-5ppm....just tried to double phos as I read it helps eliminate green spot...another algae this process does not work on.

This procedure is perfect for the other types of algae though. I highly recommend it. I've never seen anything like this green fuzzy/beard stuff. Never had it before and just showed up within one week and not left. There's almost zero info on the internet regrading this stuff. It grows on slow growing and even super fast growing plants, glass, powerheads, rocks & driftwood but I've not seen it on substrate. It grows on low lying leaves & higher up leaves but can be only here or there on a plant. 

Explain that ?


----------



## zankotsu

Is the algae supposed to be "killed" in these 15 minutes? Will I see it disintegrate or is this trusting the time of dose?
Old thread, but I'd like to know 
Thanks.


----------



## jfynyson

You will see results in a day or two for weaker varieties of algae and others can be a week or more as I've seen. A good sign is if your plants look like they have brownish grey dust on the leaves. At that point you should be able tp shake the plants or gently rub them with your fingers and the stuff falls off. That's when it's done. Some types of algae are layered (like GSA) and will take more time and subsequent treatments to kill off the lower layers.

I've not seen this method to work at all however for green beard (aka fuzz) algae.


----------



## newbieplanter

Didn't read the whole post yet but just wanted to ask cuz I want the algae in my tank gone ASAP and I wanna see if what I have on hand will work. I have flourish and flourish excel comin in tha mail but wated to know if I can use matricide 14 cuz it's stronger than the flourish?






DarkCobra said:


> *NOTE: Others have reported deaths of shrimp, snails, and fish - particularly known sensitive ones. Please read the entire thread for details before experimenting. For anyone who wishes to try this, I am changing my initial recommendation for H2O2 to 2 tbsp. per 10G, down from 4 tbsp. This treatment seems especially hit-and-miss with shrimp, so for them, I do not recommend this treatment AT ALL - unless you consider them expendable.*
> 
> 
> *PREFACE:*
> 
> This is a technique I've developed. While I've provided this info in several threads now as personalized help, I feel it deserves a full write-up in its own thread.
> 
> In brief: It uses a _properly executed_ H2O2 whole tank treatment, followed by a whole tank Excel treatment, to provide a _much greater_ algicidal effect than either alone; without noticeably increased risk to fauna or plants.
> 
> This has been performed by me many times, and by others only a few. While in all cases no adverse effects were observed, I cannot guarantee it to be 100% safe. Only through many more tests in a wide variety of tanks can that be established. Keep that in mind should you decide to try it, and if you do, please share your results in this thread.
> 
> Even if you don't try this, you may still find some of it informative.
> 
> 
> *FIRST PUNCH: H2O2*
> 
> Whole tank H2O2 treatments don't get much attention. The results are typically very poor, at least until you get into such doses that fauna are at risk; and after a few failed attempts, most folks understandably write this option off.
> 
> But the truth is, most people perform this treatment _completely wrong_.
> 
> *The WRONG Way:*
> 
> Typically, the first thing done is to turn off the filters and lights. Already, one mistake has potentially been made, and a path paved to another.
> 
> Turning off the filters does prevent H2O2 from flowing through the biomedia. That's good, because we don't want the H2O2 to kill too much nitrifying bacteria, nor want the H2O2 depleted at this point in reaction with these bacteria. But often, this leaves little or no flow in the tank.
> 
> The effect of any chemical is determined by: Concentration * Flow * Time.
> 
> A H2O2 spot treatment works with no flow, solely because of the incredibly high concentration at the location where it's applied. But in a whole tank treatment, it's far more dilute. So instead, _high flow is required_ to carry it around the tank, to contact the algae and have some positive effect.
> 
> Without that, there is only one place where high flow is occurring. Fish gills. And that is the one thing we don't want the H2O2 reacting with!
> 
> Moving on now. The H2O2 is added. Some amount of time is allowed to elapse, a half hour or so. Then the treatment is "terminated", by turning filters and lights back on. This is the next mistake.
> 
> Virtually all of the H2O2 still exists in the tank, because without flow, very little of it has reacted with anything. While light does break down H2O2, this is measured in days - even in direct sunlight. Not minutes. So the light has no effect, in the time scales we're working with.
> 
> The biofilter at least is now reducing the H2O2. And with flow restored, the H2O2 is at last starting to have some effect on the algae. But the fish are already getting close to suffering noticeable stress. The full concentration of H2O2 has been flowing through their gills for a half hour, completely without reason since this time did nothing to kill the algae. And they will _continue_ to be exposed to gradually lessening concentrations, further increasing the stress, as the filter slowly removes it. It may take another half hour before H2O2 is sufficiently reduced.
> 
> *The RIGHT Way:*
> 
> As I said before, Concentration * Flow * Time.
> 
> So if you want an effective treatment, provide _massive flow_ during the entire treatment period. Since flow is constant through fish gills, to protect them you shorten the _time_, by wasting none of it with periods where the algae isn't affected, and correctly terminating the treatment. If this is done, the increase in safety is actually enough that _concentration_ can be increased.
> 
> First, prepare the tank. You want as much flow as possible. If you have extra powerheads, add them. If your sole source of flow is your filters, you'll have to temporarily remove the filter media to a bucket of tank water, and leave the filters on. Otherwise, this is optional but still beneficial. I have a cheap Koralia clone that with 1,320GPH flow, turned out to be too much for any of my tanks; but I keep it around because it's ideal for this treatment.
> 
> If you have Marimo balls, temporarily remove them to a bucket of tank water as well. Cladophora is very hardy, and normally not affected by whole tank H2O2 treatments. But this treatment can burn them badly, especially on sides exposed to direct flow. If they're also infested with undesirable algae, they can be treated simply by keeping them in the bucket in a dark place for a week. They can tolerate extremely long blackouts without harm, unlike other algae.
> 
> Keep the lights on. Light has no effect on the H2O2, only your ability to see what's going on.
> 
> Now add 3% H2O2, at a dosage of 4 tbsp. per 10G of actual tank water volume (excluding substrate, plants, etc). Yes, that's double what's typically used; as explained previously we can use a higher concentration.
> 
> Allow to circulate for 15 minutes. During this time, redirect flow a few times if possible, to make sure all areas get covered. If you have particular trouble spots, try to ensure they get direct flow during part of the treatment.
> 
> Now terminate the treatment. Do a 50% water change, or more if you know it's well tolerated. Return the tank to its normal configuration, including replacing filter media if it was removed.
> 
> Less hardy algae may be effectively killed by this alone, especially if flow was good. But all algae will be weakened, and now it's time for:
> 
> 
> *SECOND PUNCH: EXCEL*
> 
> Any remaining algae not killed by the H2O2 is now _extremely susceptible_ to Excel.
> 
> If you weren't already using Excel, or were using it at the recommended dose, add Seachem's recommended initial dose of 5ml per 10G. No further large doses are necessary in this case. Algae builds up some tolerance to Excel, similar to sensitive plants like Vals. In this case, the H2O2 treatment followed by a single, sudden Excel spike is enough to quickly finish algae off.
> 
> If you were already using Excel overdoses, continue using the previous dose.
> 
> Enjoy your algae-free tank. If there are any underlying problems that caused the algae outbreak in the first place, correct them so your tank stays algae-free. In some cases, a thorough algae removal like this is enough to improve plant health to the point where algae will not return.
> 
> 
> *CLOSING NOTES:*
> 
> I've used this treatment many times over the course of the last year.
> 
> It was originally developed to deal with what I call my SOS, "Staghorn On Steroids", as featured in my signature. SOS doesn't behave quite according to the rules. Like most algae it likes high light, but will thrive in medium light if flow is high. It laughs at high CO2, H2O2 spot treatments, and Excel spot/tank treatments. But it falls hard to the "One-Two Punch", and I relied on this treatment heavily when trying to figure out how to keep it from growing. Which took a while, during which time I probably would have given up in frustration if I hadn't found a way to periodically eliminate it, without ripping out half my plants after each failed tank parameter adjustment.
> 
> I've tried it on other algae too, mostly out of curiosity rather than necessity. Works great. Burning my Marimo balls was a nasty surprise, but certainly showed how effective it is, as they've never been affected by any other algicidal treatment. Should I ever have an invasive clado problem, I expect this might be able to eliminate it.
> 
> I've never seen any adverse effect on the more sensitive inhabitants of my tank; including otos, cories, bamboo shrimp, ramshorn and pond snails. No idea if it's safe for other shrimp, as I keep no other varieties. I'd like to see someone try it on a tank with a few expendable cherries. Java moss was unaffected. I have some anacharis, which is particularly sensitive to Excel, but which I've gradually acclimated to a normal dose; it too is unharmed by this treatment. Hopefully others can soon add their experiences.
> 
> Off-topic but related. Recently I see the use of AlgaeFix being more freely discussed, now that certain people have finally softened their views on it, and mentioning it no longer results in guaranteed chastisement. Yes, it works, I've used it, and it's certainly easier than my method. But it isn't safe for invertebrates. Several times I've also had fish severely stressed or killed by AlgaeFix, and although in the majority of cases this doesn't happen, I consider it a gamble. I have an idea why this occurs different from other hypothesis I've seen, and how it might be avoided, but that's a topic for another thread I'll soon post. At this time I consider my treatment possibly safer than AlgaeFix when a powerful full tank treatment is required, and certainly usable in more circumstances.
> 
> Hope this proves useful to you!


----------



## jfynyson

I completly agree. I've settled on 1.5-2 tbsp / 10 gal max.
DarkCobra, please let me know your thoughts on my post regarding green beard/ fuzz algae. I have acces to 50% active glutaraldehyde and it knocks it out on spot treatments but kills the leaf as well. Only tried on anubias. I'll dilute until I hit the sweet spot. 
Also ever tried vinegar in combination with H2O2 spot treatments ?

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 4


----------



## Ach1Ll3sH33L

jfynyson said:


> I completly agree. I've settled on 1.5-2 tbsp / 10 gal max.
> DarkCobra, please let me know your thoughts on my post regarding green beard/ fuzz algae. I have acces to 50% active glutaraldehyde and it knocks it out on spot treatments but kills the leaf as well. Only tried on anubias. I'll dilute until I hit the sweet spot.
> Also ever tried vinegar in combination with H2O2 spot treatments ?
> 
> Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 4


if the h202 flash is ineffective, then you may look at api algaefix, its not shrimp safe, but it works very well at getting rid of green algae, spirogyra, hair algae, gda etc.


----------



## jfynyson

Just tried Algaefix (actually used Tetra's Alage Control = same exact chemical). I tried a couple spot treatment areas as well as added the entire tank dose (1mL / 12 gal) after my tank cleaning / WC. I then also added the Excel inital dose (used in Punch #2).

We'll see if the green beard / aka fuzz algae falls to this combo or it laughs again. I observed no mortalities overnight.


FYI - I tried adding a 5% glutaraldehyde soln to spot treat the green beard / fuzz algae on s few anubias leaves. It too, juts like the 50% glut killed the algae but also killed the leaf. I also performed a 2-3min dip of a couple L. repens stems in a jar of the initial dose of Excel. It killed the plants. 

I'll keep experimenting around to see if there's a dip dose of Excel (glutaraldehyde) that I can do to kill this stuff. If not I'll move to vinegar or citric acid and possibly combinations of Excel, H2O2, acid...

Something has to work on this evil green beard / fuzz algae without also killing the plant !


----------



## newbieplanter

Anyone use matricide 14 instead of flourish excel?


----------



## DarkCobra

jfynyson said:


> JI'll keep experimenting around to see if there's a dip dose of Excel (glutaraldehyde) that I can do to kill this stuff. If not I'll move to vinegar or citric acid and possibly combinations of Excel, H2O2, acid...


Will be interested to see your results. I do know:

1) H2O2 becomes a much stronger oxidizer at low pH. I've used it in combination with vinegar for cleaning driftwood and such, but only outside the tank.

2) Algaefix (Busan 77 and equivalents) increases absorption of Excel (glutaraldehyde, Metricide, etc.) and therefore increases the biocidal potential. Metricide 28 is a combo of these two ingredients.

Stef also made a discovery recently. She added dried banana leaves from our yard to a small pseudo-planted tank, intended as a conditioner for bettas, but it also made some BGA that was present gradually disappear. Repeated it in another, properly planted larger tank with BGA on the filter outflow - same result. I'm not sure if it's working in the same way as things such as barley straw are speculated to work (gradual release of H2O2), or if it's something specific to the banana leaves. Also did a test with it against thread algae, but no effect.


----------



## jfynyson

I am thrilled to say that the combination of Algaefix & Excel is showing signs of some dead & dieing greed beard / fuzz algae !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:icon_cool

Actually used Tetra's Algae Control which as the same as API's Algaefix & used a 2.5-2.6% soln of glutaraldehyde as opposed to SeaChem's Excel however the glut was equivalent in concentration. I used the equivalent of Excel's initial dose and Algaefix's recommended dose of 1mL / 12gal. 

I cleaned the tank & did my water change as typical then I added the Algaefix dose followed by the Excel. I did however do a couple spot treatments here & with with Algaefix prior to refilling the tank during water change. Those areas are showing similar results. I'll continue to monitor and any areas that survive this treatment I'll try spot treatments with Algaefix and then a full tank Algaefix w/o Excel is see if that's a variable that matters.

In the pics you can see the velvety carpeting fuzz on the anubias and the amazon swords. If you look close you can see it turning gray & in some areas it's turing brown and is very easy to remove now with my fingers. This green beard / fuzz algae when healthy is very vibrant green and cannot easily be removed from the leaves without causing harm to the leaves. You can pull a few fibers of the algae off with your fingers but using a scrub pad or even a Magic Eraser yeilds no algae removal. Now that it's dieing it's coming off nicely !


----------



## jfynyson

newbieplanter said:


> Anyone use matricide 14 instead of flourish excel?


Both use glutaraldehdye as active indgredient. Go for it...no worries.


----------



## FungusTrooper

jfynyson said:


> Both use glutaraldehdye as active indgredient. Go for it...no worries.


Just make sure you get your dosage correct since metricide is much more concentrated.


----------



## jfynyson

FungusTrooper said:


> Just make sure you get your dosage correct since metricide is much more concentrated.


Sorry yes, the concentration per the MSDS for Met.14 is 2.6% while SeaChem's MSDS claims 2% (I've seen some folks say 1.5% though). I've been adding 2.6% glut to my tank but I make mine from 50% active glut!


----------



## Melooley

I tried this method yesterday, and while all my (black brush?) algae now looks weakened and pathetic, all 7 of my juvie BN plecos died within 12 hours of the treatment. 

Specs:
50 gallon low-tech planted tank, estimated 40 gallons water 
Added 16 tbs H2O2 (4 tbs per 10 gallons - I figured none of my livestock were all that delicate, so after I added 2 tbs per gallon and no one looked stressed, I bumped it up to the "full" dose. Stupid, stupid me.) 
Ammonia, nitrites = 0; nitrates below 50 ppm
TDS ~ 900
pH ~ 8.0 (Tap water here is close to 8.3, 8.4, and I've been slooooooowly adding SeaChem Neutral Buffer because I wanted to get my pH close to 7 to increase the odds of BN breeding.... too bad I murdered all my breeder BNs) 

Plants: 
Bacopa
Water wisteria 
Java fern, on driftwood
Jungle Val
Italian Val
Small Amazon Swords
Egeria/Elodea densa (anacharis) 

Livestock: 
5 brown BN Plecos
2 albino BN Plecos
1 old, scraggly momma guppy
?? week old guppy fry
1 male betta
1 one-eyed Black Moor goldfish 

Filtration: 
Rena XP2 canister filter, turned off for the 15 minute treatment
Marineland Penguin Powerhead (170 GPH) running two sponge filters

Here's what I did:
Step 0) Prepare approximately 25 gallons of dechlorinated replacement water, in buckets next to the tank, waiting for showtime.
1) Turn off canister filter
2) Remove sponges from Penguin Powerhead so it's just providing water flow, no biological filtration
3) Turn off air to bubble strip
4) Add Hydor Koralia Circulation Pump (rated 850 GPH - you said good flow, I got good flow!) 
5) Add 10 tbs peroxide (approx. 3 TBS per 10 gallon estimated volume) 
6) Wait 5 minutes, constantly re-orienting powerheads for full "washing machine" effect
7) Add 6 more tbs peroxide, since nobody looked stressed. This is the step I most regret.
8) After 17 minutes (I was aiming for 15, but don't think this is all that far off from the goal), I turned on the air pump to the 18" air strip, and added the sponges back onto my Penguin Powerhead, to allow some of my good bacteria to start processing the peroxide. I also removed the Hydor Circ Pump, since it was literally flattening most of my wisteria.
9) Drain 1/2 volume of tank into almost literally any random watertight container I could find, since I was aiming for a speedy water change, and all of my water-change buckets were full of replacement water.
10) Start adding replacement water. I kept an eye on the thermometer, and even with the influx of room-temp water, the temp never dropped more than two degrees. The heater was plugged in and on for most of the water change process.
11) Turn on canister filter, so full arsenal of good bacteria can start processing the H2O2.
12) Add slightly over 1/2 of Flourish Excel dose (i.e., 3 capfuls) 
13) Finish topping off tank and dispose of waste water all before the 1 Hour mark (i.e., one hour from when I added the peroxide).
14) Add remainder of Flourish Excel dose (for a total of 5 capfuls, as instructed) 

Everyone survived the immediate process. The old lady guppy was swimming at an angle within an hour of the end of the whole battle, and within 2 hours, she and my oldest male BN were dead. A total of 5 BNs were dead before I went to bed (say, 6 hours after the One Two Punch maneuver) and I woke up to the remaining 2 also floating. They all seemed to be extra-puffy, like they'd managed to swallow air, but I couldn't bring myself to necropsy any of them. I thought my differently-abled goldfish was also going to the great tank in the sky, since he seemed to be at a funny angle and resting more than usual on the substrate, but he survived the night and now looks fine. My betta, of course, is invincible, and while I was adding water, I did notice a few guppy fry that seemed none the worse for wear. 

As far as plants go, some of my egeria looks melty, but still looks like the vast majority will survive. My wisteria, which had been the greatest victim of the algae, looks greener than ever before, and my java fern looks like it couldn't care less. A lot of my vals had been suffering before the 1-2 punch, since it was also a major host for the BBA and I'd cut most of the leaves in half in the past week, so while they look sad, they look no sadder than they did before the 1-2 attack. 

I'll update on my plants, since I know anacharis and Vals are both reported to be sensitive to this double-punch. If I had it all to do over again, I definitely would have used less H2O2. I think anyone that attempts this technique should be prepared to NOT see anything during the 15 minutes of H2O2, and should keep in mind that any damage to fish might not show up even for several hours after the water change is complete. If I had been more patient and had more will-power, I wonder if my beloved BNs might have survived. 

Sigh. Live and learn, I suppose.


----------



## houseofcards

Melooley said:


> I tried this method yesterday, and while all my (black brush?) algae now looks weakened and pathetic, all 7 of my juvie BN plecos died within 12 hours of the treatment...
> .


I know algae can be frustrating and I'm sure this works for some, but really risking your fish to get rid of algae with this treatment, I don't get that. There are 'safe' ways to fix your setup.


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## 12redblue

Glad to hear something works on the green fuzz. If its in my 20g goldfish tank - couldn't I just remove fish for the 2 hours or so to do the treatments and therefore less risk to them?


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## funkjosh

used this method today and afterwards noticed very strong smell coming from tank. kind of reminded me of diy co2 solution. not pleasant.

hair algae is dying off and turning white. smaller patches of BBA are turning red. no dead inhabitants. still too early to see full results.

i used 6 tbsp in about ~20g of water. 30 mL of Excel after.


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## jfynyson

funkjosh said:


> used this method today and afterwards noticed very strong smell coming from tank. kind of reminded me of diy co2 solution. not pleasant.
> 
> hair algae is dying off and turning white. smaller patches of BBA are turning red. no dead inhabitants. still too early to see full results.
> 
> i used 6 tbsp in about ~20g of water. 30 mL of Excel after.


I hope everything turns out ok....that's too much Excel I believe (5mL/10gal target charge should've been 10mL in your 20gal tank...assuming you have 20gal of water); adding 3x the Excel may be the odor you're smelling....does it smell just like the bottle of Excel ? I wouldn't know as I use straight glutaraldehyde (has that sweetish pungent aldehyde odor)


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## Edub

I followed your directions from the first post and am pleased to say that I seem to finally have won the war on clado. When I upgraded my lights from t5no to led I got a huuuuge clado outbreak that just hasn't been going away. I would seriously pull pounds of clado out of that tank every week or 2. Needless to say my other plants suffered, and my tank looked like crap. Now my tank looks much better, and all traces of the offending clado are gone. Careful maintenance will hopefully keep it away haha.

I did combine this treatment with a very, very large water change and it resulted in a mini cycle for my tank. Nobody died, but I did have white cloudy water for a few weeks until everything balanced out. Now my water is crystal clear and I can enjoy looking at my tank again. Wahoo!


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## iter

DarkCobra-

I tried your method on my 25 gallon tank; it had what was probably the same type of staghorn algae ("Staghorn on Steriods" )that you described in post #1. This time I dosed 3.5 tablespoons per 10 gallon since the algae was pretty bad; after about 2 hours ALL the staghorn turned red and so far no issues with fish and shrimp (Though the shrimps are a shaken up a bit from the massive flow). Pictures are attached. I wasn't able to get any pre-treatment pictures because I forgot, sorry, but it's pretty much the same thing in the pictures, just the color is gray to black. Thank you for sharing this technique! I will update it in a few days to show you the overall result. 

Got a bit artsy on one


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## plantbrain

Just a FYI for folks that fear killing their fish, which should be 100% of you, do a large water change before and after treatment(say 8 hours after). The by products of the killing algae, bacteria, organic matter release into the water can be removed easily with a simple water change. 

It is always better to use "many small little hammers", than one large one when dealing with pest if you have things in the tank which you do not want to harm.

Algae are symptomatic, they tell me folks or myself are not focusing on the plant growth correctly. So that's the no# 1 area to focus on. Not just add algae killers and ignore that. But that said, when you do get algae, products like these can and do help to get rid of the mess you made. But they should never be an ongoing part of anyone's routine. 

I do not have good horticulture skills from my algae killing ability. 
No one does.

when you do kill algae or use chemical treatments, do the water changes, this helps reduce the O2 demand from all the organic materials and increases the O2, algae do not like water changes as a rule also.

I noted that 1/2 doses has similar effects on green algae and also shrimp(still killed them) with Algaefix/busan 77.


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## plantbrain

DarkCobra-

Did you get a chance to test the Glut decay?


----------



## iter

A small update with the aquarium's current state: 

I think I overdosed the hydrogen peroxide. Or it could be that I was aiming a constant 200 gph pump at the plants for 15 minutes. Anyways, the HM got burned, though the crown is still producing fresh new green leaves. This is my first time with a chemical treatment, so it's just probably my fault that something went wrong. Everything else is fine though, fish are happy, shrimps are happy, and the annoying tiny snails are all happy .

As a added note, all the algae died and I did perform a large water change later (in my case the next day) as Mr. Barr recommended. If I ever have to do this again, I would probably use a lower dose of H2O2, just to leave some room for error.


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## Doogy262

Due to more than a few reasons not the least of which is doing something wrong to produce this stuff i am going to try this method tomorrow on my 40g.tank.i do have a few questions.Because I let this get so out of hand if this treatment does not kill all or most algae how soon would it be safe to try again?how long does the excel stay in the water before being used up?I am trying hard to understand the dosing of ferts as I believe that is the one of three things that may be out of sync.I have co2 and after replacing the needle valve I should be able to set that up so it is constant during the light period.i have cut my lights to 7 hours a day.2x39watt ho5 plant bulbs and 6500 led strip.i am dosing with flourish after wc and with a micro-macro dry mix three times a week at half recommended dose.If anyone can look this over and give me some ideas i plan on beating the algae monster the right way.Mr.Barr your tanks look so clear I would not be afraid to get a glass and drink from them LOL so help this guy out and please not to much with the kno,nko etc..Thanks


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## captnphil

Hello

I hope to get some help on the h2o2 dosing.

Here is a quick summary...
I have many swords & ferns attached to driftwood.

These are full of gha $ bba.

So i filled up a 30g, added a small powerhead & heater.

Removed the woods&plants from the main tank, did a bleach dip to everything, rinsed, now everything is
In the 30g ( no life & bare-bottom )

Next! I dumped an entire bottle of hydrogen peroxide i got at the drugstore.

48h later, a few spot of gha is turning white from the bleach, bubbles on others, bba unfazed.

Could mixing both treatments cancel each others? Or am i just impatient and the algae will die from what i thought "extreme measure"?


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## Jonnywhoop

Hey everyone, definitely a good read up.

My 40br has been experiencing some bad algae recently. I am planning on doing the H2o2 dosage. so for 4tbsp per 10g x 4, Im dosing 16tbsp all around the tank? I'm going to close out eheim valves to make sure none of the h2o2 get in there, leaving one powerhead on to circulate water. After 30 min, I will do a 50% water change and turn the filter back on, correct? Luckily, the tank is not stocked with anything but S. Repens, Rotala, and Fissidens.

Just double checking the whole procedure. It sounds like a great idea in theory, but after having all my HC melt on me... I don't need another catastrophe on my hands. 

THANKS!


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## ipkiss

Jonnywhoop, 

I took a glance at your tank journal and if your algae is all coming from your current round of HC melt, you might want to hold on and see if it calms down by itself first. The ammonia from the melt may have triggered your algae but if you remove it, it should fade in time. I don't know if you've read through the whole thread but this treatment is known to melt some lower order plants too. Not sure if yours are included but just wanted you to proceed with caution. But if you DO decide on this, you might want to consider removing the biomedia in the eheim and running it as well because if you follow the guide, it suggests getting as much flow as possible during the "treatment" time.


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## Jonnywhoop

Ipkiss

Thanks for the quick response! I removed all of the HC by advice from a lot of people. Another method too was to get my sae and Amanos up in there to start chomping away. Since the tank is empty now, however, I considered the h2o2 method. I can definitely take out the sponges and what not on my eheim. Better yet I can use my friends power head instead. I'm just getting some dark green algae on some of the plants including the repens. Algae on the rocks and woods too. I honestly think the sae will do it, but if nuking the tank completely can do it easily, it's definitely worth considering!


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## maxwellag

I just dosed h202 in my tank today, following the original recommendation (4 tbsp/10 gallon). After about 15 minutes, I did a 50% water change. My fish look a little stressed. Does anyone know what % h2o2 can be in the water before it starts harming fish? I think I am at about 1.5% right now.


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## vvDO

maxwellag said:


> I just dosed h202 in my tank today, following the original recommendation (4 tbsp/10 gallon). After about 15 minutes, I did a 50% water change. My fish look a little stressed. Does anyone know what % h2o2 can be in the water before it starts harming fish? I think I am at about 1.5% right now.


I suggest you do another 25-50% water change.


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## jfynyson

maxwellag said:


> I just dosed h202 in my tank today, following the original recommendation (4 tbsp/10 gallon). After about 15 minutes, I did a 50% water change. My fish look a little stressed. Does anyone know what % h2o2 can be in the water before it starts harming fish? I think I am at about 1.5% right now.


Yeah, I've typically performed a ~75% water change after treatment. I've found even 3 tbls/10 gal to kill some species. Here's what I've found and put together for dosing my 135gal. I wouldn't go above 2.25tbs/10gal if I ever did it again with fish in the tank. (I hope this table pastes in ok).

Edited out the dosing table since it didn't paste well.


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## jccaclimber

Adding another data point, did this a couple weeks ago on a densely planted 135. Used the original full strength, didn't really see any bubbling. The hair algae was completely removed as was the staghorn. The BBA was more or less untouched. No fish deaths to note, although one or two going missing wouldn't be noticeable. Found happy shrimp of all ages a week later still in the tank, so I don't think it nuked them. Worth noting is that there was a fairly large amount of gunk scattered in dead spots towards the back of the tank.


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## NickMach007

*Worked well for me*

I did the H2O2 treatment followed by excel dosing this weekend. I had a mix of BBA, green hair algae and some diatoms (relatively new tank). I used the revised 2Tb of H2O2 per 10gal of tank water. My pond snails just laughed and went on cruising around. I have a school of ember tetras all seem to be doing fine 3 days later, so I think it went well. Algae clearing up nicely (though I also did some work to pull some of it out manually). I did have a ton of flow in the tank when I added the H2O2, so I think this step is crucial to success. 
I have several stem plants (s. belem, blyxa japonica, pogostemon stellatus, ludwigia cuba) that did fine. My downoi (pogostemon helferi) looks good, so does my peacock moss, cyperus helferi, and staurogyne repens. 
Anyhow, good luck to everyone else fighting the good algae fight.


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## Warlock

OK.. so after ready alot of thread.. 

4 Tb per 10 gallons.. 

lots of water flow.. 

remove biofilter. 

marimo balls are affected.. 

***********
i have 20g tank.. it is only tank with this algae.. idk why since all other lights stay on just as long.. anyways..

i just added some guppies.. i will remove them during treatment.. 

BUT one of my marimo is where the HA is growing on..  (pss. may do the DARK OUT METHOD in post 1, so BLACK OUT IT IS)

darkcobra mention hyro/perx would burn it.. does it recover?

i would like to kill it.. i have SAE in there.. they don't seem to be excited by HA..

ps.. great thread.. thanks!


----------



## LordEros33

I've been battling BBA in my 55 gallon display tank for a while now. It's a medium light low-tech tank with a very heavy fish load, soon to be replaced with a 6 ft 150 gallon because the fish are breeding maniacs (guppies/mollies/platties/corys and otos). Surprisingly even the otos are breeding readily in this my tank. 

I just did the full one-two punch and ALL of the BBA is dying rapidly, thanks for the original post. I had only 1 casualty through the whole ordeal (1 oto didn't make it) but all the BBA is various shades of read and falling off/getting eaten by the mollies and otos. This method was a god-send. 

The next step for me will be going high-tech with CO2 injection and some dosing regimen, not sure which yet. This will likely come after the tank is moved into the new 150 gallon setup.


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## MERSF559

ihaveassive diatoms growing on the glass/rocks and drift wood. I've been scrubing what icould. would this be effective against diatoms? the stock I currently have are just 4 neons and 3 horn snails to help with the diatoms. they seem to be doing a job by eating the algae off this rock


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## eaglesaquarium

I'm dealing with BBA that doesn't follow the normal rules - actually PEARLING - with higher CO2 injections. And grows on glass.

Would this kill BBA as well?


----------



## Rush3737

My BBA pearls as well. Pisses me the hell off. That said I've been doing OK with Excel spot treatments so far. Worked EXTREMELY well on my filter outflow and driftwood. Plants don't seem to lose it so easily, but I'm hopeful.


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## anastasisariel

I did this the other day, however I didn't have any excel; I used only H2O2. I dumped about 1.5 cups of H2O2 into my tank and turned off my sump and introduced powerheads. after about 15 minutes I did a 15 gallon water change to the tank and then turned on my sump (which diluted the main tank by another 25 gallons). I have lost one Otto and for a little while one of my Bolivian rams looked stressed. I am going to do a follow up but this time will use maybe only 1 cup of H2O2 or perhaps 3/4 a cup. Currently 95% of the BBA is pink so I'm hoping a followup will not stress out my fauna too much to wipe out the rest. Im sure i killed some nitrifying bacteria but I doubt I killed off enought to really hurt. Before I do the second treatment I will test nitrites and ammonia just to be sure.


----------



## lamiskool

Tried this method and it looks like it has cleared the hair algae infestation in one of my tanks that I had. Unfortunately the otos in the tank died though....all other fish/amanos made it though weird.


----------



## anastasisariel

I just lost two more Ottos. From my experience, I believe that Ottos, in particular, are succeptible to high doses of H2O2 as I did not use anything but this.

My BBA has been kicked in the groin and in another day I will dose about 3/4 cup of H2O2 to see if I can finish it off.


----------



## Jeff5614

anastasisariel said:


> I just lost two more Ottos. From my experience, I believe that Ottos, in particular, are succeptible to high doses of H2O2 as I did not use anything but this.
> 
> My BBA has been kicked in the groin and in another day I will dose about 3/4 cup of H2O2 to see if I can finish it off.


I can't help but wonder why continue adding H2O2 if it is obviously killing your fish. It seems you would want to remove the fish while dosing or, what seems like an even better idea in your situation, discontinue keeping fish since their survival doesn't seem to be one of your goals with aquarium keeping.


----------



## AquaAurora

I'm considering trying this in my tanks as I've tried the h2o2 with no filtration before, and direct spot treating hair algae.. it would come back each time though. I have a 3 gallon I've been doing a 3 day back out in for rampant hair algae.. wonder if trying this treatment right after a black out would be too much stress on all the plants (fauna-less tank atm).  Unfortunately its filtration sucks and its too small to be able to fit my spare ancient HOB on.. I think.. will try to shove it in there.

So in a 3 gallon that would be about 1 tbsp h202 and 1.5 ml Exel, correct?


----------



## Monster Fish

AquaAurora said:


> I'm considering trying this in my tanks as I've tried the h2o2 with no filtration before, and direct spot treating hair algae.. it would come back each time though. I have a 3 gallon I've been doing a 3 day back out in for rampant hair algae.. wonder if trying this treatment right after a black out would be too much stress on all the plants (fauna-less tank atm). Unfortunately its filtration sucks and its too small to be able to fit my spare ancient HOB on.. I think.. will try to shove it in there.
> 
> So in a 3 gallon that would be about 1 tbsp h202 and 1.5 ml Exel, correct?


Use less H2O2. The max safe dose is 2 tbsp per 10 gallons of actual water. In your case, I'd calculate how much actual water is in your tank and modify your H2O2 dosage.


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## Corrie

anastasisariel said:


> I dumped about 1.5 cups of H2O2 into my tank .


 "I am changing my initial recommendation for H2O2 to 2 tbsp. per 10G"

70 gals = 14 tbsp = .875 cup

You added twice as much.


----------



## AquaAurora

Monster Fish said:


> Use less H2O2. The max safe dose is 2 tbsp per 10 gallons of actual water. In your case, I'd calculate how much actual water is in your tank and modify your H2O2 dosage.


*head thunk* did treatment an hour ago using teh 4 tbsp ration reduced... well we'll see if the plants survived or got nuked. The tank is about 3.4 gallons + a tiny bit more for the extra HOB used. I don't see "pink hair algae" as people say after treating.. still looks brownish in the tank (green on a toothbrush when pulled out).


----------



## Monster Fish

AquaAurora said:


> *head thunk* did treatment an hour ago using teh 4 tbsp ration reduced... well we'll see if the plants survived or got nuked. The tank is about 3.4 gallons + a tiny bit more for the extra HOB used. I don't see "pink hair algae" as people say after treating.. still looks brownish in the tank (green on a toothbrush when pulled out).


How much water did you change afterwards? The algae will die over the course of a few days and should disappear completely as your plants grow.


----------



## AquaAurora

Monster Fish said:


> How much water did you change afterwards? The algae will die over the course of a few days and should disappear completely as your plants grow.


I'd say 65.. maybe 70% (defiantly over 50%). All my plants are slow growers, have some misc mosses, java fern (nl) and baby jungle vals that's still very short (not a perm resident for this tank) I know val will grow fast but mine's not taken off and growing like a weed yet.


----------



## Monster Fish

AquaAurora said:


> I'd say 65.. maybe 70% (defiantly over 50%).


Sounds good. You should see results in a few days.


----------



## anastasisariel

Jeff5614 said:


> I can't help but wonder why continue adding H2O2 if it is obviously killing your fish. It seems you would want to remove the fish while dosing or, what seems like an even better idea in your situation, discontinue keeping fish since their survival doesn't seem to be one of your goals with aquarium keeping.


Obviously, my goal wasn't to kill my Ottos; it was to kill the algae. Sometimes when dealing with algae we take risks so as not to loose our whole tank.

Thanks for your self-righteous words of advice though; they are much appreciated. Nothing new on the internet really-just old.


----------



## Jeff5614

anastasisariel said:


> Obviously, my goal wasn't to kill my Ottos; it was to kill the algae. Sometimes when dealing with algae we take risks so as not to loose our whole tank.
> 
> Thanks for your self-righteous words of advice though; they are much appreciated. Nothing new on the internet really-just old.


Maybe not your goal but since you don't mind doing it repeatedly my suggestion is still the same.


----------



## AquaAurora

..On a slightly more constructive note (hopefully).. I'd ask if you had more ottos and plan to treat more.. would you consider temporarily moving them to a bucket/hospital tank (with existing tank water) before adding treatment, and moving them back once complete, or a few hours after if their temp setup has heat/filtration?
Will you replace your lost ottos? Just a curiosity.


----------



## anastasisariel

AquaAurora said:


> ..On a slightly more constructive note (hopefully).. I'd ask if you had more ottos and plan to treat more.. would you consider temporarily moving them to a bucket/hospital tank (with existing tank water) before adding treatment, and moving them back once complete, or a few hours after if their temp setup has heat/filtration?
> Will you replace your lost ottos? Just a curiosity.


The Ottos were moved that day, guys. One died withing 24 hours and 2 more were lost after about 72.

I am treating the tank with both the Rams and Ottos moved to another tank. My point in sharing this information with this forum was to warn others that Ottos appear to be very succeptible to H2O2 at these levels. 

When I said "kill the rest off." I was referring to the BBA not the Ottos if that is where this is all coming from.


----------



## Monster Fish

anastasisariel said:


> I did this the other day, however I didn't have any excel; I used only H2O2. I dumped about 1.5 cups of H2O2 into my tank and turned off my sump and introduced powerheads. after about 15 minutes I did a 15 gallon water change to the tank and then turned on my sump (which diluted the main tank by another 25 gallons). I have lost one Otto and for a little while one of my Bolivian rams looked stressed. I am going to do a follow up but this time will use maybe only 1 cup of H2O2 or perhaps 3/4 a cup. Currently 95% of the BBA is pink so I'm hoping a followup will not stress out my fauna too much to wipe out the rest. Im sure i killed some nitrifying bacteria but I doubt I killed off enought to really hurt. Before I do the second treatment I will test nitrites and ammonia just to be sure.


So you'd risk the rest of your livestock again just to nuke bba that's already showing signs of dying? Hold off on adding more H2O2 and pick up some Excel instead. You can't abuse this treatment or cut corners because something will definitely go wrong. Your dead oto and stressed fish is proof enough.


----------



## AquaAurora

anastasisariel said:


> The Ottos were moved that day, guys. One died withing 24 hours and 2 more were lost after about 72.
> 
> I am treating the tank with both the Rams and Ottos moved to another tank. My point in sharing this information with this forum was to warn others that Ottos appear to be very succeptible to H2O2 at these levels.
> 
> When I said "kill the rest off." I was referring to the BBA not the Ottos if that is where this is all coming from.


Thank you for clarifying.


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## anastasisariel

AquaAurora said:


> Thank you for clarifying.


Oh, I don't mind clarifying, and I appreciate the fact you didn't rush to judgement even though I understand now after reading the post I made that it could have alarmed a fellow aquarist. lol

Trust me, I felt terrible about those Ottos. My reasoning for sharing this information was to warn others. If you read through the last few pages of this thread there seems to be at least one other person reporting they lost Ottos.

To be fair to the OP-DarkCobra, I did not follow his method; I was experimenting with my own as the Metricide I have does not have any algaecidal properties (I got really unlucky and it happens every so often with both excel and metricide).

I had to make the most of the H202, and I did, but the experiment had losses. The good news is that no other fauna seem the least bit affected and continue to thrive. I'm confident that I can use the same method with half the amount I used the first time without the Ottos and Rams and minimize any further risks.


----------



## lamiskool

huh just didnt realise you had lost otos too anastasisariel, yea I feel horrible for killing mine. After dosing the H2O2 I saw them swim/cling to the top of the waterline, some even over the waterline. I quickly moved them to another tank but all of them died....Weirdly enough like I said the amano was fine but I moved them just in case. Also the GBR pair that are in there I know are fine with the treatment as ive dosed the tank with H2O2 before with them in it and they were unaffected.


----------



## Corrie

lamiskool said:


> huh just didnt realise you had lost otos too anastasisariel, yea I feel horrible for killing mine. After dosing the H2O2


 lamiskool, exactly how much water were you treating?...how much H2O2 did you use?...and how long did you leave it in there?....and how much water change did you do immediately after?

...that info would help


----------



## DarkCobra

anastasisariel said:


> To be fair to the OP-DarkCobra, I did not follow his method; I was experimenting with my own as the Metricide I have does not have any algaecidal properties (I got really unlucky and it happens every so often with both excel and metricide).


I'm curious about this statement. When you say your Metricide "does not have any algaecidal properties", do believe you've gotten a bad batch of Metricide, where the active ingredient (glutaraldehyde) has broken down or is otherwise at less than normal concentration? Or that your BBA has proven resistant to glutaradehyde overdose?

Even if algae that's normally affected by glutaradehyde proves resistant, there is still a definite synergy between H2O2 and glutaraldehyde, so inclusion of the 2nd punch will increase effectiveness and so reduce the amount of H2O2 required.

With H2O2 being the riskier and more unpredictable component, minimizing the quantity of H2O2 used is important. I note that you used nearly 4tbsp/10G dosage (if it was in your 75G), which was my initial recommendation; but as it caused an unacceptable amount of problems, it was soon reduced to 2tbsp/10G. It seems that the overall effect of H2O2 on algae/flora/fauna is variable, based on multiple tank characteristics, and with the largest still not identified. So experimentally determining the minimum effective dose is actually a better approach than a fixed recommendation. It might even be a good idea to start as low as 1tbsp/10G to observe how a tank responds, then work up in increments from there on subsequent treatments if needed. That is exactly what I did while developing the treatment, and while all my tanks respond well to 4tbsp/10G, that level of tolerance turned out to be uncommon for others.

None of this is meant as criticism, just clarification. Thank you for sharing your experiences! Even if negative and for H2O2 alone, they are still an important contribution.


----------



## anastasisariel

DarkCobra said:


> I'm curious about this statement. When you say your Metricide "does not have any algaecidal properties", do believe you've gotten a bad batch of Metricide, where the active ingredient (glutaraldehyde) has broken down or is otherwise at less than normal concentration? Or that your BBA has proven resistant to glutaradehyde overdose?
> 
> Even if algae that's normally affected by glutaradehyde proves resistant, there is still a definite synergy between H2O2 and glutaraldehyde, so inclusion of the 2nd punch will increase effectiveness and so reduce the amount of H2O2 required.
> 
> With H2O2 being the riskier and more unpredictable component, minimizing the quantity of H2O2 used is important. I note that you used nearly 4tbsp/10G dosage (if it was in your 75G), which was my initial recommendation; but as it caused an unacceptable amount of problems, it was soon reduced to 2tbsp/10G. It seems that the overall effect of H2O2 on algae/flora/fauna is variable, based on multiple tank characteristics, and with the largest still not identified. So experimentally determining the minimum effective dose is actually a better approach than a fixed recommendation. It might even be a good idea to start as low as 1tbsp/10G to observe how a tank responds, then work up in increments from there on subsequent treatments if needed. That is exactly what I did while developing the treatment, and while all my tanks respond well to 4tbsp/10G, that level of tolerance turned out to be uncommon for others.
> 
> None of this is meant as criticism, just clarification. Thank you for sharing your experiences! Even if negative and for H2O2 alone, they are still an important contribution.


Yeah, it must be the glut has broken down in some way; I don't believe it is a lower concentration than it should be. I dont' believe the algae is resistant, but just that the glut in the metricide I purchased doesn't do squat against it. There is a couple threads I found with others who have had this experience with both excel and metricide. Otherwise I would be loosing my mind.

Today I did this again with zero (noticable) stress on any fauna but I had already taken the Ottos out. I used 1 cup of H202.

I know I've said my tank is 75 gallons but keep in mind I have a 29 gallon sump. I turn off the sump for about 30 minutes though until I think much of the H2O2 has already reacted and I do about a 15 gallon water change then it goes back on and dilutes the main tank (probably about 65 gallons of actual water without the sump).

All this said, I truly believe there is something about Ottos. Keep in mind, I have ghost shrimp, MTS and ramshorns and I didn't loose a single invertabrate. Im even wondering if the Rams being 'stressed' might have been due to the introduced current as actually it was only one Ram who seemed a little disturbed by the process (he is the neurotic one already).


----------



## kman

I have some weird hairy algae that's killing the Christmas moss I've been trying to get established. Last couple of days I've tried spot treating, but I'd really like to make sure it's killed dead dead. Would this one-two punch method work?










My biggest concern is my fish and plants. Is it just Vals and anacharis that are sensitive to the process? I have relatively hardy plants, I think (Anubias, Java Fern, rotala, hygrophila corymbosa, valisneria, wisteria, baby tears (not dwarf), Amazon sword, crypt parva, and of course the Christmas moss. My fish are various tetras, dwarf gourami and a EB ram, plus two otos, snails and a couple ghost shrimp. 

The plants have to stay put, of course, but does it make sense to move the fish and fauna into a bucket or separate hospital tank for the hour or so the whole process takes? (Including water changes and time to settle) it just seems so logical that I'm a little surprised it's not really mentioned much in this thread, so I wonder if I'm missing something.


----------



## yashmack

I dont have fish in my tank and only a few plants that I can easily replace
would this work to remove hair algae?


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## lamiskool

Corrie said:


> lamiskool, exactly how much water were you treating?...how much H2O2 did you use?...and how long did you leave it in there?....and how much water change did you do immediately after?
> 
> ...that info would help


2tbspn per 10gallon so I used 4tbspn for my 20 gallon tank that doesnt have any hardscape so its very close to 20 gallons. Left it in for 15 minutes and did a 50% water change. Added excell right after the water change. Also want to note that after the otos died and I moved the amano shrimp just in case I added algeafix also at the presribed dosage to add a third "punch." So far it seems to have worked and all the hair algae is dead. GBR pair and plants that are in the tank are still fine minus a little melt of my blyxa but nothing major.


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## Subtletanks91

This treatment is everything it's cracked up to be. Haha I had a huge problem in my 1.6g fluval spec. A lot of staghorn algae and bba. So after consulting with dark I dosed the correct amount of peroxide. Did my water change and then did my excel treatment. It's been almost a week now and most of the algae had shrunk away and is dead now. I may do another treatment within the next few days to rid the tank of anything else there may be lingering around still though haha. 

Thanks dark!!!!!


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## Subtletanks91

I have a problem with spyrogyra algae in my shrimp tank. So today I'll be trying the one two punch for that with a modified dosage of 5ml peroxide for 15 minutes 50% water change and then 3ml of excel for 10 minutes and another 50% water change. Not sure if I'll be the first to try this or the last but I will let you guys know within a couple of days how it had effected my shrimp. I keep red cherries, snowballs, mischillings, crs, CBS, blonde orange eye tigers, and a few Amanos in the same tank. So there is a wide variety and a lot could go wrong. But there is an algae problem. The blackout did nothing.


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## Mirkinator

Btw ive used this method twice, with amanos, German Blues, neon and red phantom tetras and a pea puffer. Havent lost a soul and my tank is cleanest its been. Used these instructions to the t

I realize that its best to get to the root cause of algae, but this method works great for when youve got the root cause fixed (my case CO2) and have lots of algae you need to remove.

Edit: also can we please have this linked on the OP of the sticky in this forum?


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## Subtletanks91

One day after the modified dosage. Not a soul was harmed. No one is dead. No one showed signs of stress from the treatment. However there was no "pearling from the peroxide part of the treatment.


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## lamiskool

Subtletanks91 said:


> One day after the modified dosage. Not a soul was harmed. No one is dead. No one showed signs of stress from the treatment. However there was no "pearling from the peroxide part of the treatment.


Glad everyone is ok, and happy your testing this out on shirmp as im to scared to ever try it on my shrimp tank. How does the algea look after the treatment/did it work? Just curious as I have a few shrimp tanks and if I ever do get an algae outbreak in them then instead of having to move the shrimp/tear down the tank I can try this!


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## Subtletanks91

Usually after the treatment there is no difference noticed right away. It takes about a week for it to shrink down and go away. But just because there's no visual confirmation immediately doesn't mean it works. A lot of people discredit say pain killers because they say they can't feel it working. Yet they are working inside your body you just can't notice it. Same difference for this treatment.


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## lamiskool

Subtletanks91 said:


> Usually after the treatment there is no difference noticed right away. It takes about a week for it to shrink down and go away. But just because there's no visual confirmation immediately doesn't mean it works. A lot of people discredit say pain killers because they say they can't feel it working. Yet they are working inside your body you just can't notice it. Same difference for this treatment.


Yea I know, same thing for when I did it, took a few days before I saw the algae die. I just wanted to keep us updated on the progress to see if a lower dose would work!


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## Subtletanks91

I'll keep everyone updated on the results.


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## Reddevil07

Hey folks. Just wanted to say thanks to everyone who participated in this thread. I used this method on my 55 gal that had bba and stag horn. I have fire red shrimp, cardinals, Cory's, and some mystery snails. I had no casualties except for a few snails . It has been two weeks since treatment and everything is looking great! Thanks again!


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## Subtletanks91

Only two days after the treatment on my tank. No casualties with shrimp. Not signs of stress or otherwise. I am still however noticing the algae, no die off yet. I may be doing another treatment next week at full strength and see how that goes. I am having a planaria invasion as well so I may move the shrimp to a smaller holding quarantine tank and then bomb the tank with peroxide no planaria and excel. 

We will see only time will tell


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## kman

Here's hoping... I went forward with the 1-2 punch tonight! 17 gal 60P clone. I pulled out my Amano shrimp, Otos, snail, Dwarf Gourami and as many golden white cloud tetras as I could catch. The neons and rummynose tetras were too damn fast and I didn't want to stress them anymore. Filled a bucket with a few gallons of tank water and let them sit out the main event.

I added an Eheim Skim350 and a little Hydor Koralia Nano 240 Pump to increase flow.

And like an idiot, I left my canister filter running for the first 2 minutes ... and then I realized I forgot to pull the filter baskets. *sigh* Properly horrified, I yanked the cord, disconnected the hoses, and cleaned it with clean fish-safe water right away, but I hope I didn't nuke the entire bacterial colony in that first couple of minutes.  If so, I guess I get to re-cycle my tank, fish in. Yay. Live and learn...

I have high hopes about dealing with my string algae invasion, though.  I'm manually removing as much as I can, but it's really dug into my Christmas moss, and nearly impossible to separate out entirely.

Refilled the tank, and reintroduced the critters I had pulled, and restored the saved tank water last. The fish that I pulled out, of course, seem way more freaked out than the ones who sat through the process. Aside from that, things seem to be settling down nicely, so we'll see!


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## Diana

Tried the original (high dose) method on some tanks with NO LIVESTOCK. 
Blanket weed (the algae that grows in ponds). 
It has not died off.


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## Diana

Well, the blanket weed is finally kicking the bucket. Up 'til yesterday (posted this morning) it was still green. Today it is sort of white. 
But the Guppy Grass is also looking really sad. I cannot pull the blanket weed out without removing the Guppy Grass. I am hoping for the blanket weed to rot and release the Guppy Grass.


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## Subtletanks91

No change in the spyrogyra algae, and two shrimp dead today. But I'm suspecting molting issues which I'll be doing a water change with pure ro tomorrow. Manually removing what I can I guess for a while until the tank sorts itself out


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## sicklidcrazy

Hi everyone. I recently took over a planted tank that my buddy started but he let it go. He moved out and now I am trying to learn and take it over. It had a bit of an algae problem. Hair, dark green spots, and this short black bushy algae.
It's a 72 gallon bowfront. I shorted the dosage. Like enough h2o2 for 55gallons. Most algae turned red, but not the black bushy stuff. I don't know much about the types of plants or the algae, I'm an African cichlid guy.
But it worked just need to up my dosage and try again.


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## tetra73

I just did the 1 to 2 punch treatment. I have a 40g with maybe 35g of water. The plant load is moderate. I mainly have BBA on the DHG trimming (close to the substrate) and on my driftwoods which I can't remove them from the tank. I have a dirt tank too. Previously, my light was on the high side since there were few plants I wanted them to get redder. Now, the lighting is medium.

I read the entire thread and was alarmed with the deaths of some livestocks especially with otos and cory cats. I have 5 otos and 3 cory cats. So, I decided to be a bit on the cautious side using 2 tblsp per 10g H2O2 dosage. About 6 tblsp to a 35g of water. I took out my biological filters and totally running my XP Medium filter empty. After 5 minutes, I began to see some pearling. By 10 minutes, my fish seemed fine. No erratic behaviors. Since I am using buckets to change my water, I decided to start ending my treatment around 11 minutes. By the time I siphoned out 2 buckets, 11g of water, I am already at the 15 minutes mark. BTW, I was still keeping my filter running throughout the entire time and until new water have been added. After the 2 buckets, I pumped back in some new water. And siphoned out another 7g of water and adding back another 7g of new water. 

So far, everything is fine. The fish didn't behave any more differently. I just added 17ml of excel. The lights are off now and I can see the plants are still pearling. 

The worst case is that my dosage maybe too weak (given with my bioload and plant mass) to have caused any damage to the algae. Maybe I can try 7 or 8 tlbsp of H202 next time.

Forgot to add that before the beginning of the treatment, I trimmed off some leaves and cleaned off some GSA on the side of the tank. This may also increase the organic load of the tank.


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## Aurie

I hope to try this with my brand new tank I just set up. Some of the plants I got have some green hair algae in it and I'd rather do this method in the beginning before ripping out any more plants. Every time I look into the tank I have more and more little green fuzz balls popping up. I keep removing the parts of the plants that are effected and I'm done! I don't have any live stock yet so I'm about to nuke it .. Wish me luck!


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## Shremph

Aurie said:


> I hope to try this with my brand new tank I just set up. Some of the plants I got have some green hair algae in it and I'd rather do this method in the beginning before ripping out any more plants. Every time I look into the tank I have more and more little green fuzz balls popping up. I keep removing the parts of the plants that are effected and I'm done! I don't have any live stock yet so I'm about to nuke it .. Wish me luck!


Good luck!

:This isn't a suggestion, just commenting on what I did:

Just nuked my two week old tank. No livestock and I went with 50ml of peroxide for a 20g long. Left the peroxide in with no water change. Used 10ml excel and a double dose of Algaefix. Three days later I did a water change (70%) and my algae is either gone or pink. Co2 was my problem and I fixed that before punching. I only have Blyxa, S. Reps, and Downoi which are all tough plants in my experience and was why I chose to go overboard on my dosing.


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## DefStatic

I am losing or at a stalemate with my BBA outbreak, caused by not getting a decent water change for 3 weeks.

The substrate is pretty clean, I pulled all rocks and driftwood and cleaned them in a peroxide solution. The driftwood looks better, although I couldn't let it sit out for a couple days like I would have liked. Maybe when it gets warmer I will have a chance to if the algae bounces back.

My biggest problem is the existing plants. I do not want to trim off too much, and can't wait for new growth to replant. Not really sure if I should try this ,I have cardinals, ottos, a cory, some guppies and some scissortail rasboras. 

Maybe I should just try the Excel part? I am now doing 3 gallon water changes 3 times a week. Should I up that too? Been doing that for about a month now.


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## Ach1Ll3sH33L

DefStatic said:


> I am losing or at a stalemate with my BBA outbreak, caused by not getting a decent water change for 3 weeks.
> 
> The substrate is pretty clean, I pulled all rocks and driftwood and cleaned them in a peroxide solution. The driftwood looks better, although I couldn't let it sit out for a couple days like I would have liked. Maybe when it gets warmer I will have a chance to if the algae bounces back.
> 
> My biggest problem is the existing plants. I do not want to trim off too much, and can't wait for new growth to replant. Not really sure if I should try this ,I have cardinals, ottos, a cory, some guppies and some scissortail rasboras.
> 
> Maybe I should just try the Excel part? I am now doing 3 gallon water changes 3 times a week. Should I up that too? Been doing that for about a month now.


How big is the tank? frequent water changes may be causing your bba issues, especially if its during the light cycle, as this will cause a fluctuation in co2 levels. I would do once a week water change after lights out, or before co2 comes on. do a double dose of excel for a few weeks(some use triple dose), and this should kill the bba....however if we dont fix the root cause the bba then it will continue to spread or likely come back.


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## Aurie

I just did the 1 2 punch on my mini M with 3 tablespoons of h2o2 and the full dose of excel for the water amount I have. I have NO livestock in this aquarium and it's only 2 weeks old. I have some green thread/hair algae growing. It's long and flowing and some pieces are very skinny, like one of my own hairs got in there (that's mainly on the eco complete) .. I don't know where it came from. Either from the Eco, or the plants I got. the driftwood and rocks have been dry for at least 6 months.

2 hours after doing the blast, everything was super pearling. Way more than a regular water change would do. Anyone have experience with this kind of algae and this method? Did it work?

FORGROUND MIDDLE RIGHT


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## Diana

Follow up to my post of 4-4-14:
In some tanks the blanket weed is dead and gone. Really clean tanks! 
In others there seems to have been little to no benefit. 

The difference seems to be the circulation. 
In the tanks with the best results (dead algae) the planting was rather light, so the added power head really ramped up the water movement. 
In the tanks with the worst results (algae is still alive) the plants or algae were so dense that the power head did not create so great water movement. 

The death of plants was spotty. 
In one tank I lost all the guppy grass, but the duckweed survived. Blanket weed is gone. 
In another tank the guppy grass and Valisneria are fine. Blanket weed sort of died in some areas but not really all over. (I attribute this to poor circulation).
In all tanks with Valisneria it is fine. The high dose of Excel following the weakening by H2O2 seems not to have bothered it very much. Some leaves are a bit burned looking, but over 90% of the plants have come through pretty good. An odd dead leaf here and there might not even be from the treatment. 

Livestock: Pond snails, tadpoles have shown up now that the tanks are clear enough to see into.


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## tetra73

I want to add a bit here. Last week, I did 2 treatments one day after since I do 2 60% WC per week. The first treatment I went it light with less than 2 tbsp per 10g of H2o2. 6 tblsp for 35 gallon of water. Followed by 17ml of excel. A day later, did another treatment using 8 tblsp and followed by 17ml of excel. Didn't do another treatment until 5 days later, today. The result from the first 2 treatments didn't really cause any noticeable death of my BBA. However, my DHG has gotten cleaner and no diatom buildup. The leaves surface has gotten cleaner looking. It appears the first 2 treatments did break down some of the mums in my tank. No live stocks were lost. 

Today, I did another treatment to find out what is my safe and effective dosage. I used instead 10 tblsp, roughly about 3 tblsp per 10g of H2o2. Immediately I poured it into the aquarium water, the plants were pearling immediately. Yet, the fish seems fine. No erratic behaviors. I waited for 15 minutes before siphoning out the water. By the time I pumped back the new water into the tank, it has already been 20 minutes. Let's hope in few days I would see my BBA on my harscapes to turn white or pink. 

I think I would do one H2o2 treatment once a week during my WC as a preventive treatment. As ways to reduce and breakdown the mums in my tank. 

I think people should start first with a lighter dosage and to work your way up in order to avoid killing your live stocks.


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## thelub

Just did this procedure on my 80g. 360ml of H2O2 (2 Tbsp per 10g). 50% water change and then ~150ml of excel (light I know, but I didn't want to use my whole bottle at once).

The kribs, hongsloi apistos, zebra otos and BNP aren't happy, but I think they'll survive (I hope! Those are expensive fish). I'll be interested to see how it affects my BBA problem (its pretty severe).


----------



## tetra73

thelub said:


> Just did this procedure on my 80g. 360ml of H2O2 (2 Tbsp per 10g). 50% water change and then ~150ml of excel (light I know, but I didn't want to use my whole bottle at once).
> 
> The kribs, hongsloi apistos, zebra otos and BNP aren't happy, but I think they'll survive (I hope! Those are expensive fish). I'll be interested to see how it affects my BBA problem (its pretty severe).



You are supposed to dose the regular initial excel dosage, which is 5ml per 10g. You should have dosed 40ml of excel, not 150ml.


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## thelub

You're right. Somehow I calculated 5ml/g instead of 10g.









So far the death toll is a BNP, zebra oto, rumy nose, paleatus cory and a handful of ramshorn snails. The kribs and apistos seem to be doing OK. I'm sure the excel pushed them over the edge, but the H2O2 started it. They all were acting weird before the excel was added.

My procedure.

1: add all 4 powerheads I had laying around to the aquarium
2: H2O2 dose (about 340ml)
3: after 15 min start 50% water change. I think this is part of what did them in because doing a 50% water change on an 80g aquarium takes a while. In hindsight I probably should have added the new water in via dumping it in instead of my usual method of pumping it in via pond pump. This would have added extra turbulence to the water when filling back up.

4: add (overdose) of excel.

My tank now stinks like a pond. I'm going to do another 50% change this morning as soon as I can break away from work and get back to the house.

The angels seem to be less affected than any other inhabitant. Gold ram seems a little lethargic, but no overly stressed. One bolivian ram almost kicked the bucket but I moved it to another tank and its recovering. Kribs were doing pretty poorly as well but seem to be on the mend.


----------



## tetra73

thelub said:


> You're right. Somehow I calculated 5ml/g instead of 10g.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So far the death toll is a BNP, zebra oto, rumy nose, paleatus cory and a handful of ramshorn snails. The kribs and apistos seem to be doing OK. I'm sure the excel pushed them over the edge, but the H2O2 started it. They all were acting weird before the excel was added.
> 
> My procedure.
> 
> 1: add all 4 powerheads I had laying around to the aquarium
> 2: H2O2 dose (about 340ml)
> 3: after 15 min start 50% water change. I think this is part of what did them in because doing a 50% water change on an 80g aquarium takes a while. In hindsight I probably should have added the new water in via dumping it in instead of my usual method of pumping it in via pond pump. This would have added extra turbulence to the water when filling back up.
> 
> 4: add (overdose) of excel.
> 
> My tank now stinks like a pond. I'm going to do another 50% change this morning as soon as I can break away from work and get back to the house.
> 
> The angels seem to be less affected than any other inhabitant. Gold ram seems a little lethargic, but no overly stressed. One bolivian ram almost kicked the bucket but I moved it to another tank and its recovering. Kribs were doing pretty poorly as well but seem to be on the mend.



Sorry to hear to that... 

Well, I think for a newer tank with less organic load, 2 tlbsp per 10g can still be too much. My dirt tank has been running for over 8 months and I don't use any chemical filtration. Pretty heavy on the plant mass, the entire substrate is covered with DHG. Most of my hardscapes are partially buried into the substrate. Most of my plants haven't grown tall yet. I have over 40 fish in my 40b. Just did another 10.5 tblsp (3+tblsp per 10g) treatment with a new bottle of H2o2. Everything is fine. I begin to see some BBAs are turning white or partially white. And whatever hair or emergent BBAs on the plant leaves are not there anymore.


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## thelub

I have a pretty heavy plant mass and while it may be only 4ish months old it by all appearances is fairly well established. I don't have any chemical filtration just lava rock in a Fluval 404. I have a pretty good carpet of dwarf sag going as well as a big sword, crypts and a few fast growing stem plants. So far the BBA seems unaffected which is extra frustrating since I had such heavy fish loss with nothing to show for it. Guess my next step is to get back to the drawing board as well as getting some SAE to munch on it.


----------



## Krispyplants

I am totally reconsidering this method but first, I really want to know if anyone have done this method many of times consecutively without losing any fish in a period of 6 months or more. Please respond if you have been there and done that.


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## Krispyplants

I have 12 CPD, 12 RCS, 4 SAE, 2 triple red apistos, 2 turquoise blue rainbows, 10 half banded kuhli loach, 4 otos and some hitch hiker snails going in my 50 gallon. I know that I have a lot of fish but I may not even keep any sae's at the end. They are all juveniles. I invested a crazy amount of money on my live stock alone and is scared to give this method a shot :icon_roll also did anyone have any CPD and kuhli loaches tested with this method before? They are my main concerns.


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## thelub

If you do try it, try a half dose or less than what is recommended. 

I thought that this treatment didn't have any effect on my BBA but after 4 days it has turned brown and died.

Unfortunately, so has my dwarf sag carpet


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## Krispyplants

thelub said:


> If you do try it, try a half dose or less than what is recommended.
> 
> I thought that this treatment didn't have any effect on my BBA but after 4 days it has turned brown and died.
> 
> Unfortunately, so has my dwarf sag carpet


 
So that mean's that my dwarf hair grass in transition may perish as well? :confused1: will this effect pogo helferi too? So many questions and the answer lies in the dam bottle. I'm getting frustrated with algae. The hair and bba I don't mind but the algae that covers all my plants with dark green and black spots from the tip of the leaves...  nothing works. shimp, sae, otos and snails are just swimming right over them. This algae is all over my plants and tank walls. What is this?


----------



## thelub

You just have to find the balance of lights, nutrients and CO2. There are many ways any of those can be off which can cause algae to thrive. The algae section has a lot of good info. Just gotta read and figure out what solution works for your setup.


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## tetra73

Krispyplants said:


> So that mean's that my dwarf hair grass in transition may perish as well? :confused1: will this effect pogo helferi too? So many questions and the answer lies in the dam bottle. I'm getting frustrated with algae. The hair and bba I don't mind but the algae that covers all my plants with dark green and black spots from the tip of the leaves...  nothing works. shimp, sae, otos and snails are just swimming right over them. This algae is all over my plants and tank walls. What is this?



Your DHG would be fine. I just did another treatment today with 12 tblsp for 35g of water. Upped from 10 tblsp. In your case, start small first, maybe something like less than 2 tblsp per 10g dosage. And upping the dosage in your next treatment and depending if the treatment is working for you. I say you would have good concentration if your plants would pearl immediately right after you added the dosage. My plants didn't pearl until some 10 minutes later when using only 6 tblsp for 35g of water. By 10 tblsp, they begin to pearl in minutes.


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## Krispyplants

I guess that to have a clean aquarium, the tank's gotta stay dark :icon_eek: well I will dose a little... but that'll be when I get me one more power head


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## EvilFish

So, the only sensibly species for this treatment is Ottos and Ghost shrimps? 
What about corydoras? Raspboras? Angelfish? Gourami, Bolivian ram, draft orange cryfish? Platy? 

Do I need to WC after excel dosing or I must wait 24h?


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## In2wishin

I did this in my 10g which I was cycling and getting a major algae problem. The only wildlife were 3 nerites and a betta and I lost 1 nerite. It really worked great on the algae. I was getting a green carpet on my substrate along with some on the glass and all of it is knocked out. 

One thing I did that I would like to mention. From reading the thread, circulation and flow seem to be really important. I didn't think I would get enough just from the filter, so I took my small fish net and swished it in the water for the first 10 of the 15 minutes before doing the water change. It really got the water moving and I think that helped. (the betta hunkered down under one of the plants and rode it out)


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## EvilFish

Do I need to remove Excel sensible plants? Or they can survive 1 time treatment?

Thanks


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## EvilFish

Just dosed 6 tbsp of Peroxid and 12.5 ml of Excel for my 29g.

When I can put back my Amono shrimp, Draft Cryfish and Neritas?


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## kcoscia

I'm going to attempt this on my 5.5g. It has a mystery black/brown/green algae on the substrate, deemed not BGA.

I will be 1-2 Punching with 1 tbsp H2O2 and 2.5mL Excel after the 50% water change.

I will be adding an extra empty HOB filter, removing the media from my air driven filter and turning it's air on full blast for 15 minutes. 
I will be removing my betta, various ramshorns (that I can catch, not a big deal) and my lone shrimp. I figure, what's 15 minutes out of the tank while the H2O2 is working?

From other's successes, I'm feeling confident in this method. Updates to follow.


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## EvilFish

24h later:
Caloglossa (algae, red moss) is dying. That's good. 
BBA no effect. 
Staghorn no effect. 
Cladophora no effect.


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## thelub

It took 3 days for my BBA to start dying


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## Aurie

My hair algae in my tank (the whispy green flowy stuff) died back and now I just have rare single strings like one of my hairs got caught in the tank. I don't remember my dosage but it was the "modified" dosage for a mini m (I did about 6 gallons worth of dosage) with no inhabitants so I wasn't worried about the dosage. I did it with my regular filter. My cycle seems to have rebounded and I added some cherry shrimp. I had an amano, but I have 0 clue where it is LOL


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## aquarist

EvilFish said:


> So, the only sensibly species for this treatment is Ottos and Ghost shrimps?
> What about corydoras? Raspboras? Angelfish? Gourami, Bolivian ram, draft orange cryfish? Platy?
> 
> Do I need to WC after excel dosing or I must wait 24h?



I've never had any problems with my ottos, I dose 4 tsp per 10 gallon for 20 minutes. I keep the filter and co2 running, I also add in an extra powerhead with a venturi air intake usually. I have 3 ottos in that ten gallon aquarium and they do fine. I kinda nuked one of my Anubias Barteri ‘Nana' leaves once, it has a pretty gnarly hole in one of it's leaves now. 

I also dose 24 tsp in my 75 gallon for 20 minutes and have 3 ottos, a black veil angel, and German Blue Rams to name a few and have had no problems. This tank has a lot of flow in it already so I do not add any extra powerheads, but I do add an airstore because it makes me feel good. 

So far I have done this treatment 3 times, I do it more now as a good preventative measure, and have not had a fish die yet.


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## Lab_Man

I have to say, this is the most effective method that I have used for algae. One month later and the tank is crystal clear. I used the original recommended dose.

Disclaimer, I have lost a few fish since the treatment but was it from the treatment? I don't know.


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## John Moses

Nice Write up.. Please let me know if this method is effective for Green Dust Algae ?

I am currently in "Wait it out" mode for the GSA.. But I am planning to use this after 3 to 4 weeks. So does this work for GSA also ?

Thanks
John


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## John Moses

Nice Write up.. Please let me know if this method is effective for Green Dust Alagae ?

I am currently in "Wait it out" mode for the GSA.. But I am planning to use this after 3 to 4 weeks. So does this work for GSA also ?


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## EvilFish

So, right now 80% of my BBA are red/pink.


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## kcoscia

Just wanted to check back in and note that I had success. It's been a few days now, and algae is continuing to die. I'd say it's pretty optimal right now but my girlfriend with the up close eye is hoping for a little better.

It went from sand covered in a black/brown/green diatom algae to a nice off white no algae sand.

I'm pleased!


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## Cap10Squirty

I just used this method in two of my tanks that have mainly hair algae. I used two powerheads in each, and an extra HOB filter in addition to the cannister (with biomedia removed) in order to create as much circulation as possible. Not sure if I see the results right away...does it take a day or two?

Also, would it be advisable or not to use this method as a preventative approach, in other words with every or every other water change? Or would this be like overusing antibiotics resulting in resistance ?


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## EwDeg

My Experience: So I was having issues getting rid of BGA, BBA, and probably some other algaes in a tank that is 4ish months old. I did a modified version of the One Two. Instead of just dumping the h202 in the tank and circulating, I spot treated the areas where I had the most algae(somewhere in the range of 2.5-3 Tbsp per 10gal-I have a 20 gal). I only had a Biowheel 150 on hand. No powerhead. Removed the wheel and filter media after spot treating, then let it circulate for 15 minutes. Move it around a bit to get the flow going. Then 60% water change and 10mL of Excel. Lots of artificial pearling. Next day I purchased two more Otos(had one) and two Amanos. Popped them in there then went away for the weekend. Got back 2.5 days later, and the tank was MUCH better. I still have some BGA, but it's been weakened for sure. BBA is pretty much gone. Overall, I'd rate it as a success.


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## EwDeg

Oh almost forgot. This treatment completely melted my Vals, so be advised.


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## Aurie

Vals are very sensitive to excel so that's not surprising 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk


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## Kntry

I did this treatment yesterday.

75 gallon with substrate about 5" deep. I turned the filters off, added a powerhead, 2 large Sweetwater air stones and a 10" air "tube". I also used a large fish net to move water around during the 15 minutes. 

I added 6 tbls. and a "splash" of peroxide for exactly 15 minutes and started doing the water change with a gravel cleaner hooked to a 3/4" hose which moves a lot of water. Once the water level was down 50%, I continued the water removal but started adding new water slowly. I probably drained about 75% of the water.

During the treatment, my Red Cherries were noticeably uncomfortable. They were swimming along the glass like they were trying to get out. I caught all of them, along with the Kulli Loaches and put them in a bowl. I did not remove the Vals.

Once the water change was complete, I added 6 caps of Excel. I have never used it before so I did the initial treatment. I put the Vals back in the tank because I thought they were sensitive to the peroxide.:eek5: I also put the shrimp and fish back.

To my knowledge, I have not lost any fish or shrimp and the Vals look awesome.

I see a noticeable difference in the hair algae but it is far from being gone. Do I need to give it more time or do another treatment? 

Maybe I didn't use enough peroxide or Excel and figured too much displacement for the substrate?


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## bigblueallday

Just tried this treatment as my tank is covered in hair algae, no immediate results but I'll keep everyone posted on any progress. 

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## bigblueallday

Update on my treatment. Just checking the tank now about 15 hours after my initial treatment and I see zero improvement on my algae situation. Pretty disappointed at them moment. It sure if I'm supposed to wait to see results or if I did something wrong. 

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


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## EvilFish

It takes 3 days for the first results...


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## bigblueallday

EvilFish said:


> It takes 3 days for the first results...


Well that makes sense then. I do actually notice the algae has turned from black to a reddish brown color. Also my tank is all of a sudden beginning to get cloudy. It's always been crystal clear. Does the treatment have anything to do with that? 

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


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## Cap10Squirty

EvilFish said:


> It takes 3 days for the first results...


I think that is the case with my first treatment. Hair algae is now starting to leave. I melted some vals with excel in one tank so when they had not before with the same dosage. Must have been the higher circulation involved this time around.

Does this method work with green dust algae?


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## bigblueallday

bigblueallday said:


> Update on my treatment. Just checking the tank now about 15 hours after my initial treatment and I see zero improvement on my algae situation. Pretty disappointed at them moment. It sure if I'm supposed to wait to see results or if I did something wrong.
> 
> Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


UPDATE: 4 days later and almost all of the hair algae has turned white and is rapidly dying. This treatment did work great although like others it did melt my vals. Should I just pull them out or is there a chance they'll re emerge?


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## Kntry

It's been almost a week since I treated my tank and I'm seeing a noticeable difference in the last 2 days. 

I didn't think mine worked either but I have very little hair algae left. 

Hang in there.


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## thelub

bigblueallday said:


> UPDATE: 4 days later and almost all of the hair algae has turned white and is rapidly dying. This treatment did work great although like others it did melt my vals. Should I just pull them out or is there a chance they'll re emerge?


They'll grow back


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## EvilFish

This treatment reduce BBA to maybe 80%. But not 100%.
I use only half dose of peroxid.

Do I need to repeat it? Or CO2 injection will prevent the outbreak?


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## cmdR_CHRIS

I used this method in my 20g on June 1st. My tank had a lot of BBA and hair algae. I can definitely see a big improvement, most of the BBA is gone or dying and the hair algae was wiped out. Unfortunately this method also killed my 15 Nerite snails and massacred the sakura cherry shrimp colony . Surprisingly none of my 5 Amanos died. Be careful if you have invertebrates. My fish are well too, tetras and pygmy cories. :icon_excl If I were to do this again I would try my best to remove my invertebrates from my tank so they don't get hit with the H2O2/Flourish Excel and reintroduce them a couple of days later. My plants are doing wonderful so far, it's nice to see them without the BBA all over the leaves. Thank you for sharing this method it has helped me greatly!


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## Kntry

Since I did the treatment, I've lost most of my Nerites. I think the only ones living are the ones that were not in the tank during the treatment. I find them all over the room.

My did melt but they are growing back now.

I put the shrimp back in after filling the tank and putting the Excel in. Yesterday, I cleaned one of the Fluval and found about 15 new born baby shrimp so the shrimp are doing great. I think they don't like the peroxide. 

What is BBA?


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## newbieplanter

Has anyone done this on 5gal with baby guppies an BN pleco?
Or any variation like this?


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## Diana

I would remove fry and the BN.


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## aquarist

newbieplanter said:


> Has anyone done this on 5gal with baby guppies an BN pleco?
> Or any variation like this?


I did one recently (within the past two months) on my 75 display tank and I have 3 albino BN plecos in there and they did fine. I also have not had any problems with my Ottos either. As for the fry, yea probably best to remove them first.


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## ChemGuyEthan

*Tragedy by my mistake*

I just had a terrible tragedy occur... I've been struggling with some green thread algae and couldn't manage to get rid of it. This method sounded good as I read through it this morning before I was fully awake... I went to try it and remembered the dosage as 2 tbsp H2O2 per *1* gallon! I thought that sounded like a lot so I cut it in half again, still 4 times the regular dose. Needless to say I've lost a lot of fish this morning... :icon_cry: :frown: :icon_cry:

I think by the end of the day I will have lost all of my rummynose and cardinal tetra along with one otto. I hope that's all I lose, time will tell how the plants fair. 

I really am about on the verge of tears here, my heart sank when I realized my mistake.

I have since done a 75 % water change, filled it up again, then another 25 % change. Keeping my fingers crossed that I've corrected everything...

Read things carefully everyone, or you'll end up heartbroken as you scoop fish after fish out of your tank...


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## Kntry

I'm so sorry. It's awful when you realize you make a mistake like that. All you can do is learn from it and move forward.


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## aquarist

Sorry to hear that about your fish. It is always best to keep your eye on your aquarium for the entire time you are doing this process, any deadly signs of stress in your fish and you should immediately stop the treatment and do a water change. Probably what happened is the amount of H2O2 washed the slime coat off the fish and burned their gills. When attempting anything for the first time the carpentry rule of thumb stands strong "measure twice, cut once".


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## thelub

I can sympathize. I did almost the same thing. Massive water changes is the only thing that will save them.


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## ChemGuyEthan

It really was bad. I lost my sterbai corys by this morning... The only things left are the african dwarf frog and the gourami (I think... she was alive this morning but not moving much). 33 fish total lost.

It was worse cause I walked away to do the dishes. Set a timer for 15 minutes. If I'd been checking on it throughout the process I would have noticed quickly the stress it was putting on the fish.

Agreed with aquarist though, double check the numbers. And Kntry, lesson learned, all I can do now is move on.

I forgot to mention too, after the water change I added the full dose of Seachem Stress Guard, so maybe that helped save the two animals that remain?

So far all the plants seem fine, even the java moss and dwarf baby tears are thus far undamaged. ::knock on wood::


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## Strategy

Wow, great write up!!


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## hiatus

I did the Full Strength One-Two-Punch on my 75 today. 9 Young Adult Angels, 1 Brochis and 4 Nerites all happy and healthy so far. 8 hours latter the BBA I've been battling for a couple of months is starting to turn red.

Pulled the filter media out of the AquaClear 500 but left an air operated sponge filter in because it had BBA on the riser tube.

I added a little over 1.5 Cups of H2O2, Stirred the tank like a Jacuzzi for 15 min, 50% water change (about 45 min) and followed up with 7 capfuls of Excel.

Things are a little cloudy right now but I think it went well.


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## ShyShrimpDoc

UV or daphnia both work great on green water. granted you may have to keep the daphnia confined to a breeder box for their own protection, but they will eat and breed till they clear the tank. Simple, and no risk of killing your fish. Seed shrimp and nerites clear walls, if you have no plants at all and want to clear all surfaces I have heard cana snails work good if you can find them (illegal to ship I am told)


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## Fishinfreak

I'm considering trying this on my tank, and just have a few questions. My current fish are threadfin rainbows and dwarf emerald rasboras. I'm pretty sure they are both somewhat hardy, but just want to make sure they will survive the treatment. Also, will crypts melt from this treatment?


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## Solcielo lawrencia

I have to call this thread out as BS. Some of you have killed some of your fish. Others have killed all of your fish. While that wasn't the intent, it sure did have these unintended consequences. It's much better to learn why certain types of algae occur and the specific ways to combat them than to find novel ways to nuke the tank.

As a rule, too much light, not enough CO2, and plants suffering nutrient deficiencies will all lead to algae. Thus, the easiest way to limit or prevent it is to reduce light, add sufficient CO2, and fertilize. Keep the same setup and the algae will simply return since the cause(s) were never addressed.

Worst thread ever!


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## kman

Solcielo lawrencia said:


> I have to call this thread out as BS. Some of you have killed some of your fish. Others have killed all of your fish. While that wasn't the intent, it sure did have these unintended consequences. It's much better to learn why certain types of algae occur and the specific ways to combat them than to find novel ways to nuke the tank.
> 
> As a rule, too much light, not enough CO2, and plants suffering nutrient deficiencies will all lead to algae. Thus, the easiest way to limit or prevent it is to reduce light, add sufficient CO2, and fertilize. Keep the same setup and the algae will simply return since the cause(s) were never addressed.
> 
> Worst thread ever!


I believe the dangers are adequately addressed. Those with particularly sensitive species are well-advised to temporarily remove them for the duration of the treatment, otherwise, the risks are well-outlined, and anyone who proceeds does so at their own risk. When I did it, I certainly paid attention and pulled out my otos, shrimp and snails first, because it's abundantly clear in the thread that I should.

As for people who kills their fish by NOT following the directions correctly, well, that could happen to anyone, at anytime, doing completely normal things with their tank, couldn't it? That's hardly a fault in the procedure.

Ultimately, of course, you are correct that the best way is to solve the root problem. Of course, the thread makes that clear as well. This procedure can give a good start to solving an existing issue, while the underlying concerns are worked out, however, saving an otherwise good tank from a full teardown.


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## Solcielo lawrencia

If the dangers were really adequately addressed, then we shouldn't be on page 23 with over 300 replies with reports that fish are still dying. That's upsetting because this has been mentioned at least a couple of times earlier but it's still occurring. This is really promoting ignorance of some very basic concepts of light, nutrients, CO2, and plant growth.

Most algae problems are easy to fix even with significant infestations. Remove as much algae as possible, cut back on light intensity and/or photoperiod, add sufficient CO2, and make sure plants have adequate nutrients. It's really that easy and no fish are harmed.


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## Monster Fish

Not everyone injects CO2 into their tanks. Low tech usually relies on CO2 produced from decomposing organics (preferably in the substrate), from fish respiration, and atmospheric exchange.

Though I'll have to agree with Solcielo about the plant care. Keep the plants well fed, reduce your photo period/intensity, increasing the amount of CO2 injected (if using CO2) and manual algae removal and trimming are necessary to keep the algae away. If you do the 1-2 punch without addressing these issues and don't improve the growing conditions of your plants successfully, the algae will keep on returning.


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## kman

Solcielo lawrencia said:


> If the dangers were really adequately addressed, then we shouldn't be on page 23 with over 300 replies with reports that fish are still dying. That's upsetting because this has been mentioned at least a couple of times earlier but it's still occurring. This is really promoting ignorance of some very basic concepts of light, nutrients, CO2, and plant growth.
> 
> Most algae problems are easy to fix even with significant infestations. Remove as much algae as possible, cut back on light intensity and/or photoperiod, add sufficient CO2, and make sure plants have adequate nutrients. It's really that easy and no fish are harmed.


The dangers are adequately addressed. You can't help people who don't bother to read the warnings. There IS value in this method, as long as it's used as intended, as a temporary stop-gap while the underlying issues are addressed.

We agree, otherwise. (although see above post re co2... not all tanks use co2)


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## Solcielo lawrencia

Monster Fish said:


> Not everyone injects CO2 into their tanks. Low tech usually relies on CO2 produced from decomposing organics (preferably in the substrate), from fish respiration, and atmospheric exchange.


I know not everyone adds CO2. If not, then it's an excess light issue. Thus, reduce lighting intensity/photoperiod and make sure plants are growing healthily.


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## jfynyson

What an evil thread...how dare we talk about killing living breathing algae. That's just cruel. Poor algae. On a serious note, many folks learn from their mistakes with creating the algae issues, find out the root cause then use this method to recover a devastated tank due the algae. I'm one of those that read the warnings, figured root cause first then killed the algae then it's been a new world...night & day so I'm all for this thread and agree that some folks never learn.....just like those that gas their fish due to not knowing they're doing with pressurized CO2...but we're not bashing those threads now are we?


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## Silly's_Planted

My algae is impossible to take out by hand, because it's a really long thread algae that get's tangled up in all my plants. The tank is fishless, so I tried this method. The algae laughed in it's face. I had the h2o2 going for 30 minutes, with 550 gph pumping through the tank. I then followed up with a 6 ml dose. The algae was at a point where it wasn't growing anymore, but it wasn't going away. I thought for sure this was going to be the end of it. Guess not.


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## vvDO

Silly's_Planted said:


> My algae is impossible to take out by hand, because it's a really long thread algae that get's tangled up in all my plants. The tank is fishless, so I tried this method. The algae laughed in it's face. I had the h2o2 going for 30 minutes, with 550 gph pumping through the tank. I then followed up with a 6 ml dose. The algae was at a point where it wasn't growing anymore, but it wasn't going away. I thought for sure this was going to be the end of it. Guess not.



If you don't have any fish/inverts, try dosing algaefix.


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## Silly's_Planted

vvDO said:


> If you don't have any fish/inverts, try dosing algaefix.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sadly, the shrimp for the tank comes tomorrow. So I guess I'll just pray for it to go away. Do you guys think it's clado? It mainly effects my moss. The threads of algae can be longer then a foot and it just weaves through all my plants.


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## vvDO

Then don't sweat it... They'll have plenty to eat


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## Solcielo lawrencia

Silly's_Planted said:


> Sadly, the shrimp for the tank comes tomorrow. So I guess I'll just pray for it to go away. Do you guys think it's clado? It mainly effects my moss. The threads of algae can be longer then a foot and it just weaves through all my plants.


I'm guessing you don't add fertilizers so the moss is nutrient deficient. This allows algae to take over.


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## Silly's_Planted

Solcielo lawrencia said:


> I'm guessing you don't add fertilizers so the moss is nutrient deficient. This allows algae to take over.


I dose PPS-Pro and my rotala rotundiflolia is blood red. So I don't think I'm lacking nutrients.


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## FatherLandDescendant

Silly's_Planted said:


> I dose PPS-Pro and my rotala rotundiflolia is blood red. So I don't think I'm lacking nutrients.


What about CO2 and lights?


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## Silly's_Planted

FatherLandDescendant said:


> What about CO2 and lights?


2x cfls. I've tried both 23w and 13w. Diy co2. It was starting the co2 that made the algae stop growing.


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## Solcielo lawrencia

Silly's_Planted said:


> I dose PPS-Pro and my rotala rotundiflolia is blood red. So I don't think I'm lacking nutrients.


You'd be surprised that even with very good growth and coloration, plants can be deficient in key micronutrients that, while it doesn't seem to affect growth, can reduce immune response. So I'm guessing that you need to increase micronutrient dosing, assuming it contains all essential micronutrients. This assumes all other nutrients (light and CO2) are sufficient.


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## Silly's_Planted

Solcielo lawrencia said:


> You'd be surprised that even with very good growth and coloration, plants can be deficient in key micronutrients that, while it doesn't seem to affect growth, can reduce immune response. So I'm guessing that you need to increase micronutrient dosing, assuming it contains all essential micronutrients. This assumes all other nutrients (light and CO2) are sufficient.


I don't think so. I dose CSM +B. I've dropped from 1 ml to 0.5 ml and the algae only went down.


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## Solcielo lawrencia

What are the actual ppms of Fe? (I'm using this as a proxy for the other nutrients.)

If it isn't the micros, then it's most likely the CO2.


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## Silly's_Planted

I don't have an iron test kit and I can't really afford one. I definitely can't afford pressurized co2. Teenager problems. Once some of my coral frags grow out a bit, I'll have some money that will most likely go to co2.


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## FatherLandDescendant

Silly's_Planted said:


> 2x cfls. I've tried both 23w and 13w. Diy co2. It was starting the co2 that made the algae stop growing.


 
With DIY CO2 you really have to stay on top of it from my research, that's the reason why I haven't started to use it on my tank. If I had a 10gal I might give it a try, but on my main tank I'll wait until I can afford a compressed gas system.

Are you using Excel or other glute based organic suppelment?


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## Silly's_Planted

FatherLandDescendant said:


> With DIY CO2 you really have to stay on top of it from my research, that's the reason why I haven't started to use it on my tank. If I had a 10gal I might give it a try, but on my main tank I'll wait until I can afford a compressed gas system.
> 
> Are you using Excel or other glute based organic suppelment?


I use glut and I run at about 0.5-1 bps at all times. I change the sugar water a lot. 

Good news though, all the algae looks dead to me. Instead of being green, it's clearish and falling apart.


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## AquaAurora

So I've read mention in this thread that people who use the excel/peroxide treatment with otos tend to have mortality issues (dead otos). If I recall, this was doing it as an in-tank treatment.
*Has anyone tried removing plants and treating outside the tank, rinsing, then putting in water with extra dechlorinator for a bit before re-adding and NOT lost otos in the tank this way?*
I ask because the infect (algae) tank has some pretty special/smart/tolerant (to hands and cleaning stuff in tank) otos compared to the ones in my other tanks + is my husband's tank so I don't want to risk KO-ing his fish.


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## kman

^^ No, but I've tried it the other way around. I moved all my fish and fragile species into a hospital tank for a day while I ran the treatment in the main tank.

Algae finds all kinds of nooks and crannies to hide, in substrate, etc., so I'm not sure simply treating only the plants, in a separate tank, would deliver the full results.


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## lothlin

So I've got a massive diatom outbreak in my 60g goldfish tank, and I'm trying to correct it, but a friend suggested I try this method to help get rid of it so I can start taking care of it.

I did remove all the fish, two nerites, and a marimo because I'm not taking chances (and removing a handful of large goldfish really isn't that difficult,) removed my filter media, dosed at 4 tbslp per 10g, and manually swished the water around because I don't have a bunch of extra powerheads sitting around unfortunately.










There's the before... Hopefully in a few days I see some improvement. After the treatment I did a 50% water change and added everyone back in, so far no fauna are showing any signs of stress so I'm hoping that means everything will be okay.


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## BDoss1985

I never took any fish out at full strength, I only had bba not near the algae hell I see there lol. Ready to see your results


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## lothlin

It seems to have lightened up the algae a little, at least on plants, but some of my anubias are still looking pretty covered - I'm probably going to take everyone out again tonight and hit it again and see if maybe repeated treatments will help.

On the upside, I didn't lose anything


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## bigblueallday

I'm going to be using this treatment today to rid myself of a trifecta of BBA bga and gda. How long should I keep my jungle Val out of the tank so that they aren't affect ten by the excel?


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## Fishinfreak

Just tried this on my 6.6g for the second time. Last time it helped a little but not a lot, so hoping for better results. 
Today when I went to get the media out of my AC 20, I found one of my Dwarf Emerald rasboras in it, alive and not looking injured or sick!! I pulled out the media and there it was swimming around. Im guessing it swam up the output, because I doubt it would have fit into the intake, or survive the impeller. I took him out for the treatment to be sure the hydrogen peroxide didnt hurt any wounds I didnt see.


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## happi

am trying this method on some of my rare plants and see how they handle it, have anyone tried this method on Cyano bacteria? i have a cyno that am trying to kill and some hair algae too.


----------



## mef1975

How strong a dose could I try using if the tank doesn't have any fish, just plants? The Cryptocoryne Wendtii is probably the plant that would react first, and I am a bit concerned about it melting away. 

A few months ago, I had infected Rotala Wallichii, that I treated pretty aggressively (probably about twice the dose you suggested here) during a transfer, it was do or die for these guys. The tank I put them into did well for a couple months. Even though the plants retained that hunter green color, as if the infection still resided deep inside their physiology, I saw no fuzz anywhere, until now, and I'm wondering, did it come back because the infection was deep, or has it more to do with an imbalance in the tank? Both? I was basically running the tank at 0 nitrate, just some bladder snails in there, and am wondering if that caused the problem to resurface, or should I have not even tried to rehabilitate such infected plants? Can they only be worked with if the infection is only on the surface? There's also some high pH issues in that tank, from a bad purchase of gravel, seems to run at 8 pH.

Bump:


happi said:


> am trying this method on some of my rare plants and see how they handle it, have anyone tried this method on Cyano bacteria? i have a cyno that am trying to kill and some hair algae too.


Cyano bacteria? Like, suspended in the water column? I once used a UV light, in-line, and it sterilized the suspended algae, so it couldn't reproduce, cleared up the fog within a few days, but it then created a void in nature, that the green hair algae took advantage of, and I'm now trying to fight that off. Apparently, we'll always be fighting off the algae until we get this holy trinity right (balance of light, nitrate, co2).


----------



## mef1975

mef1975 said:


> How strong a dose could I try using if the tank doesn't have any fish, just plants? The Cryptocoryne Wendtii is probably the plant that would react first, and I am a bit concerned about it melting away.
> 
> A few months ago, I had infected Rotala Wallichii, that I treated pretty aggressively (probably about twice the dose you suggested here) during a transfer, it was do or die for these guys. The tank I put them into did well for a couple months. Even though the plants retained that hunter green color, as if the infection still resided deep inside their physiology, I saw no fuzz anywhere, until now, and I'm wondering, did it come back because the infection was deep, or has it more to do with an imbalance in the tank? Both? I was basically running the tank at 0 nitrate, just some bladder snails in there, and am wondering if that caused the problem to resurface, or should I have not even tried to rehabilitate such infected plants? Can they only be worked with if the infection is only on the surface? There's also some high pH issues in that tank, from a bad purchase of gravel, seems to run at 8 pH.






Well, I used *over 8 Tbls of 3% peroxide in the 10 gallon tank* of Rotala Wallichii and Cabomba Furcata, *for over an hour* (10 Tbls the last 15 minutes), followed by *two 50% water changes*, and *over 1.5X the dose recommended of Flourish Excel (8ml)*, which the tank hadn't been exposed to in at least 2 months. Before all this, I had trimmed the heck out of the Rotala and vacuumed the tank, in an attempt to *remove this green hair algae*, and *lowered the light cycle to around 6 hours*.


----------



## Lyana

This doesn't seem to work too well for BGA, should i try again or is there a better way to deal with that?


----------



## Fodder

Many apologies if its buried in these 25 pages, but If you have _no_ fauna, can/should the dosage and times be increased? Can a 'bigger hammer' be used, so to speak, without killing HC?


----------



## paul195

Hi

I am moving house tomorrow (well the tank anyway), which has an infestation of black algae which is a thick coating on the back and sides of the glass, over equipment and on 80% of the plant leaves.

As I will be taking the fish and water out of the tank to move it, I thought this might be a good opportunity to try the 1-2 punch treatment, but I have a couple of questions :

Q. Should I...

A) Spraying everything when the tank is empty 
B) Spraying everything using a spray bottle underwater 
C) Add it to the water and then increase to high flow?

2. Should I add it/spray it neat in all of these circumstances?

3. My tank is 51G volume so I reckon about 40G of water allowing for substrate, wood and plants. The fish are being removed in the morning, and then need to be back in the tank by the end of the day. As the fish will not be present at time of treatment, what dose is suggested ? 

I wondered if spraying the H202 directly onto all the surfaces when empty may have a greater effect, but then I don't want to melt all of the plants!

Any advice would be appreciated.

Paul


----------



## rballi

I did this on my 125 as the bba growth essentially stopped but it is on so many surfaces that I didn't want to remove. 

After 3 days I am still not seeing anything happen other than my dwarf sag is looking a little rough. All other plants and fish seem fine.


----------



## krackerjack82

Just wanted to say that this worked great for me! I resorted to this only as a last resort to a tank tear down after nothing else worked to slow down the bba. I am on day 4 after the treatment and most bba is gone and what is left has changed red and orange and falling off. all plants and fish seem much healthier now! also had no death! I have angles, neons, corys, otos, ghost shrimp, and snails.. all plants are back to being bright green and growing fast again! I did do the treatment at 2 tbls per 10gal,


----------



## rballi

I am going to attempt this again, but first doing a large water change first to eliminate as much of the organics as possible. I think that might have been what made the peroxide to be less effective


----------



## dirbrit

thanks for the info. nice that


----------



## andyl9063

a couple of questions,

1. do you take filter media out or can you leave it in? I have a large sump.
2. do you process the second punch right after water change or wait a period of time (how long)


----------



## rballi

Tried treatment for 3rd time, but did the full dose as the 2tbsp per 10 gallons wasn't taking care of business. Seems like it took effect this time as things are starting to turn Red


----------



## fish jihad

I had ongoing issues with green spot algae, some green water and bga. I fought it by changing dosing regime and lighting height. Not much luck. So i scraped all glass with a razor blade, removed all affected rocks ( but not substrate), removed filters and vacuumed the gravel (about 30%)
Then dosed the whole tank at levels prescribed by the OP. Performed a 60% water change. I dont have excel or metricide. Instead I did a 3 day blackout on the tank. In place of the HOB filters i installed a powerhead (while doing h2o2 treatment) for circulation.
After 3 days i raised my light 4" off tank and reduced my EI dosing to almost half. Im willing to accept slower growth for no algae. Its now been 2 weeks since this treatment, i dont see any new growth and 98% of old growth is gone. Water is clearer then ever.
I think the main culprit for my problems is mediocre filtration and poor circulation. Altering my light and dosing helped. But i feel the extra circulation is helping the plants get nutrients and therefore outcompeting algae as well. 
Hope this helps my fellow algae fighters


----------



## rballi

After a couple more days, all of the bba is turning white and on it's way out! The 4 tbls recipe ended up being the winning ticket. So nice not having to spot treat everything. Never saw any stress from any of my livestock. My dwarf sag melted pretty good, but it is already starting to bounce back.


----------



## BlackDiamondShrimp

Wow cool technique. I have used most of those steps, but now ur thread filled me in on some missing info. Afraid to use Excel tho, since I have had shrimp deaths after using Excel before, anyone had this experience before with Excel?


----------



## DayOlder

Did the full 1-2 in a 26 yesterday. No nano's but do have amanos. None of the fish or shrimp seemed effected. Tank definitely looks better today but still some algae. Will wait another week and redo if needed. Believe I brought it on myself when I over trimmed and failed to reduce lights, CO2 or ferts. Have now reduced all three almost 50% till I get some additional plants. Also added stump remover. Later this morning: Found two dead assassin snails in the treated tank.

Update: 2 weeks later. Never had to do a repeat as all algae died. Only fatalities were two assassins.


----------



## andyl9063

Just did the 4 tbsp on a 210g with a 55g sump...we'll see tomorrow.


----------



## jvdb

Since I don't have Excel and don't wish to purchase it, I decided to try the first part of this method with a very very high dose of h202. I removed ALL fish (no other living things other than plants in the tank). 

I have a huge outbreak of mainly BBA and my plants are really stalled because of it. I removed filter media, and put in 8 tablespoons per 10 gallons in my tank and let it swirl around for 25 minutes (FAR STRONGER THAN THE RECOMMENDED DOSE, DO NOT DO THIS WITH ANY FISH, SNAILS, SHRIMP IN THE TANK). I am currently draining the tank now (drained 75%, refilled, then drained 75% AGAIN to make sure I still don't have a huge concentration of h202 in my water).

I'll be adding all my fish back in once the tank is fully filled the second time. Hopefully this does the trick and didn't nuke my plants as well as the algae. Most people seem to be saying their BBA looks unaffected for a few days so I'll be patient and post updates in a week or so. Algae problem was caused by far too long of a lighting period, I decreased it significantly about a month ago but I think the algae was too established.


----------



## anastasisariel

I can't believe this post is still running!

Just wanted to add that if you are doing the alternative that only uses H2o2 Ottos, in my experience, are very sensitive. Only did it once...it did nuke the algea.


----------



## Absolut Talent

My short attention span kicked in and I cant make it through all these pages. Sorry if its been asked and answered already. 

But is it ok to still run co2 during this process? (turn it off only during the 15 minutes of h2o2)
Should I hold off ei dosing while doing this treatment?

Repeat every other day until things are gone? Or is it a one and done type of deal?


----------



## FishFan13

I am trying this on staghorn algae. Does anyone know if this works on gw? I have that right now too but I also just got a uv sterilizer. Maybe I should have tried this first :/


----------



## latchdan

Absolut Talent said:


> My short attention span kicked in and I cant make it through all these pages. Sorry if its been asked and answered already.
> 
> But is it ok to still run co2 during this process? (turn it off only during the 15 minutes of h2o2)
> Should I hold off ei dosing while doing this treatment?
> 
> Repeat every other day until things are gone? Or is it a one and done type of deal?


You do the process once, you don't need co2 on. I added the H202, mixed well for 15 mins then did a 50% WC. I kept lights off for entire day, and co2. Started normal EI dose/co2 the next day. Didn't lose anything I did 2 tablespoons per 10gal dose.


----------



## RedIrocZ-28

I did a test using only H2O2 on a few chunks of HC that broke off when I was doing manual removal of some hair algae from my HC patch. I took a capful of H2O2 and diluted it in to about 2 cups of water. I threw the strands of HC into the mix and let them sit for 24 hours. Today I went to inspect the progress, and the algae had turned from black to orange/brown. I'm certain it is dead or dying so i am considering removing all 19 fish in my 60gal cube and overdosing the hell out of the main tank with H2O2 and I will probably dose with Excel right after. I'm growing a nice carpet of HC without Co2 and with 2wpg lighting, and the algae is an absolute eyesore. 

Thanks for the thread, OP, if you're still around these days. You've helped a lot of people.


----------



## Roughrider

Going to hit my 40g breeder today - I've been battling a BBA issue in this tank due to a huge imbalance quite a few months ago. I've staggered its growth and spread quite a bit - but what's there currently has been a struggle for quite a few months. It laughs at excel and co2 and bounces back after h202 spot treatments in the areas effected. My SAE's can't seem to chew through it.

My plants are growing like crazy needing big trims every week due to high c02 and a strict fert regiment. Two months ago I popped in a baby amazon sword from a mother plant that resides in my 20g long, and its taken over 1/3rd of the tank like a bush. Adjusting light, C02 and ferts over the course of a few months have given me the upper hand in order to stop the BBA rampant growth, but now its time to hopefully knock it out.

I do have 4 oto's in here - its heavily planted, so its going to be nearly impossible to hospitalize them before treatment - so lets keep our fingers crossed.

I'll update in three or four days and let everyone know how it went. Going to grab some before treatment pics now.


----------



## FatherLandDescendant

Roughrider said:


> Going to hit my 40g breeder today - I've been battling a BBA issue in this tank due to a huge imbalance quite a few months ago. I've staggered its growth and spread quite a bit - but what's there currently has been a struggle for quite a few months. It laughs at excel and co2 and bounces back after h202 spot treatments in the areas effected. My SAE's can't seem to chew through it.
> 
> My plants are growing like crazy needing big trims every week due to high c02 and a strict fert regiment. Two months ago I popped in a baby amazon sword from a mother plant that resides in my 20g long, and its taken over 1/3rd of the tank like a bush. Adjusting light, C02 and ferts over the course of a few months have given me the upper hand in order to stop the BBA rampant growth, but now its time to hopefully knock it out.
> 
> I do have 4 oto's in here - its heavily planted, so its going to be nearly impossible to hospitalize them before treatment - so lets keep our fingers crossed.
> 
> I'll update in three or four days and let everyone know how it went. Going to grab some before treatment pics now.


My oto has been in my 40b about 9 months and he survived the treatment this past weekend. I did loose 1 neon and 1 glow light tetra, they died shortly after terminating the treatment with no signs of distress.


----------



## Roughrider

Roughrider said:


> Going to hit my 40g breeder today - I've been battling a BBA issue in this tank due to a huge imbalance quite a few months ago. I've staggered its growth and spread quite a bit - but what's there currently has been a struggle for quite a few months. It laughs at excel and co2 and bounces back after h202 spot treatments in the areas effected. My SAE's can't seem to chew through it.
> 
> My plants are growing like crazy needing big trims every week due to high c02 and a strict fert regiment. Two months ago I popped in a baby amazon sword from a mother plant that resides in my 20g long, and its taken over 1/3rd of the tank like a bush. Adjusting light, C02 and ferts over the course of a few months have given me the upper hand in order to stop the BBA rampant growth, but now its time to hopefully knock it out.
> 
> I do have 4 oto's in here - its heavily planted, so its going to be nearly impossible to hospitalize them before treatment - so lets keep our fingers crossed.
> 
> I'll update in three or four days and let everyone know how it went. Going to grab some before treatment pics now.


Caught 3 otos, 2 powerheads, an 800 gph pump, big old airflow, shut off c02 - and I think I'm ready...








Update: Nuked it yesterday - fish are all ok (oto's included) and have the beginnings of browning up of my BBA. A few snails on the glass as well today. The most stressful part for my critters seemed to be the washing machine that I turned my tank into during the process.


----------



## Rainer

I have a 10g with 7 micro rasboras as the only inhabitants. Should I bother removing the biofilter? The bottom is mostly covered in fern and anubias and there are some trimmings floating.


----------



## FatherLandDescendant

Rainer said:


> I have a 10g with 7 micro rasboras as the only inhabitants. Should I bother removing the biofilter? The bottom is mostly covered in fern and anubias and there are some trimmings floating.


I would take it out lest you kill your BB.


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## vvDO

Rainer said:


> I have a 10g with 7 micro rasboras as the only inhabitants. Should I bother removing the biofilter? The bottom is mostly covered in fern and anubias and there are some trimmings floating.



I would suggest temporarily moving your fish... Micro rasboras are very sensitive IMHO.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Rainer

I didn't know about that. Thanks for the warning.


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## Roughrider

Update on my nuking this past Tuesday. My BBA is dead and the SAE's are cleaning house on the red stuff. My black fuzz algae is dead and even the oto's are munching away. No dead loss at all. I'll admit though, at about 12 minutes in my old yellow molly was acting stressed. 

I was able to pull three of the 4 oto's before the process. All four are doing fine.

Turned off and pulled my cannister for cleaning and used .45 cups (just under half) of 3% H202 and then followed up with a 50% water change and immediately hit the tank with 16ml of Excel.

Two days later I lost my runt Angel that had not been eating for a few days prior - think the stress of the whole process finally finished her off. It could have been that I beat her up during the washing machine/cyclone effect as well... I don't know.

My water quality has remained solid at:
6.8 ph (tested during mid-day c02 injection)
0 ammonia
0 Nitrites
20 Nitrates


----------



## mot

Wanted to chime in that this procedure worked for me as well. I used the 4Tbsp per 10 gallons of H2O2. I removed the fish (5 oto's) and the biomedia from the cannister. Added the H2O2 ran the pumps for 45 minutes. Did a 80% water change. Added the recommended initial dosage of Excel. Let the tank run for about an hour and then added the biomedia and fish back to the tank.

Why did I do it? I had a filamentous algae outbreak after a rescape three weeks ago. The tank had three types, a little bit of staghorn, Long stringy brown algae maybe filamentous diatoms (not sure never ran into this before) and a green thread algae that was growing about 4 inches a day in the high flow areas.

Pretty sure it was all due to disturbing the soil where the Osmocote Root tabs were placed only a couple weeks earlier. Of course I completely forgot about them as I was happily changing the slope.

Here is my observations after the treatment
Same Day:
Almost all algae looked unhealthy by the end of the day. Most of the staghorn turned pink. Brown algae turned grey. Green algae looked a darker green.
Next Day: All staghorn was pink, Brown algae now grey and melting...maybe only 50% of it left. Green hair algae now grey and visibly less of it.
3rd Day: Staghorn is now melting, Brown algae is almost gone...only whitish fuzz left where it was thickest. Green hair algae now grey and about 75% of it is melted.
4th Day: Very little algae left. Anything visible is a grey or white color and looks dead.

Fish: no issues - taking them out I didnt expect any
Plants: Mini Pellia was burnt pretty bad. May lose it but the Flame and willow Moss look fine, Java Fern roots are missing the fine fuzzy appearance when they are healthy. But they were covered in the brown algae so not sure if they were already damaged. No other plants show any negative signs of the treatment.

Plant list: Staurogyne repens, cyperus helferi, Java Ferns, Anubias Nana, varied species of Bucephelendara, HC, Rotala Colorata, AR mini, Crypt Balansae, mini pellia, flame moss, willow moss


----------



## DayOlder

mot said:


> I used the 4Tbsp per gallon of H2O2.


Mot is that quote right.? I've only been using 4Tbsp per 10 gal.


----------



## mot

DayOlder said:


> Mot is that quote right.? I've only been using 4Tbsp per 10 gal.


Holy smokes no. 4tbsp per 10 gallons. Yikes...fixed above as well.


Thanks for the catch.


----------



## DayOlder

I have two tanks both of which I do 25% WC on every Sunday. I alternate which tank I start first and add 2TBSP/ 10 gal of H2O2 to the other tank, also turning off the filter and on the power head. By the time I have the first tank done the second tank is ready for the WC. This way it takes me no additional time and each tank is treated every other week. Since I have started doing this I have quit treating daily with excel, in fact I have not used excel at all and both tanks have remained algae free. I have had no loss of livestock or plants although my octocinclus do not seem to like it. I started this after doing the 1-2.


----------



## rawlins06

Just did 1.5 tbsp per 10 gallon on my 20l, 30min later did a 25% water change. There is a lot of pearling and my fish and snails seem fine.


----------



## dswiese

Just trying this tonight. only had 6 tbls for a 55g. will post results. also dosed excel at initial dose rate, post water change


----------



## nova777

Hi DarkCobra,
I've been having BBA issues for months now and am
on the verge of losing all my plants.So after reading your thread here,
I went ahead and followed your "One-Two Punch" procedure,
(Two tbsp. per Gal h2o2),to the letter.I'm already seeing the algae
turn white and pink.I've never used Excell before,so I used the standard
5ml per10 Gal dose.While looking at the reaction under the light,my
daughter pointed 3 or 4 small fry I hadn't noticed until after the treatment.
I'll post again on this thread on further results and how well the fry do.
Thanks so much for posting this thread.
Cheers,David


----------



## Kntry

How long does it usually take to see results?

Wednesday night, I took the Betta out, turned off the filtration and put 4 tbls in 5 gallons with tons of air. I let it sit 15 minutes, did about 90% water change and added Excel. 

The hair algae looks a little lighter but nothing outstanding and the BBA is still on the glass.

Should I do another treatment tonight?


----------



## anastasisariel

Results are seen within 24 hours in most cases. BTW, DarkCobra hasnt' been active for a while.


----------



## Kntry

I just finished doing the treatment again.

This time, I used 8 Tbls. in 5 gallons for an hour, after taking out the Betta and my moss wall which does not have any algae. (it's new)

I'll post what it looks like tomorrow.

Thanks


----------



## Xirxes

*The &quot;One-Two Punch&quot; Whole Tank Algae Treatment*

I just performed this treatment. And I have strange results.

I have 240 gallons. I drained 80 gallons or so, and accounted for 60-70 gallons worth of substrate, plants and wood.

Turned off filter, closed filter lines.
I put in large aeration and added 300ml (30ml/10 gal for 100 remaining gallons) peroxide.

I let this broil for 15 minutes, then added 3/4 just drained tank water, 1/4 new DI water back in to fill.

Added 100ml flourish Excel and kept aerators going.

All fish seem fine other than the stress of the broiling bubbles... HOWEVER....

My water column is turning pinky RED! I have seen something similar before and I have two theories:

1) I nuked the bacteria in the display tank, and they are turning red as they die

2) I oxidized all of my chelated iron and the water is showing the metallic color of iron (more likely)

If anyone has experienced RED WATER before, please give me some references thanks.

Here are some pics, I will update with progress.






















That is NOT a red light lol!


----------



## andyl9063

Xirxes said:


> I just performed this treatment. And I have strange results.
> 
> I have 240 gallons. I drained 80 gallons or so, and accounted for 60-70 gallons worth of substrate, plants and wood.
> 
> Turned off filter, closed filter lines.
> I put in large aeration and added 300ml (30ml/10 gal for 100 remaining gallons) peroxide.
> 
> I let this broil for 15 minutes, then added 3/4 just drained tank water, 1/4 new DI water back in to fill.
> 
> Added 100ml flourish Excel and kept aerators going.
> 
> All fish seem fine other than the stress of the broiling bubbles... HOWEVER....
> 
> My water column is turning pinky RED! I have seen something similar before and I have two theories:
> 
> 1) I nuked the bacteria in the display tank, and they are turning red as they die
> 
> 2) I oxidized all of my chelated iron and the water is showing the metallic color of iron (more likely)
> 
> If anyone has experienced RED WATER before, please give me some references thanks.
> 
> Here are some pics, I will update with progress.


I did this with my 220g yesterday. That's normal, but its a cloud grey color of the water. You'll see a lot of dissolved bubbles.


----------



## Xirxes

Results day 3:

Tank looks super crisp, all algae has lightened, but not been removed.

Lost three small schooling fish, cannot say when, but the rest of the tank is recycling 2 rummy nose tetras and one Cardinal tetra.

I haven't had any fish die in over a year, so I know for sure it was this treatment. Perhaps a slightly lower dose next go round.

Will keep updating over next week.


----------



## Pi Guy

Has anyone lost any cories to this treatment? If so, what dose did you use?


----------



## dzega

ive lost one otto and few cherry shrimps with this treatment. 3ml/gal h2o2 suggested here is way too much for shrimp tank. safe dose is considered being 1ml/gal


----------



## Plantme

I just did this treatment without the EXCEL because i couldnt find any locally but i did the H2O2 treatment.

My tank is not VERY redish pink. I dont know if this is the bacteria dying off or the algea. I had very little hair algae but it did nuke the Black algae quite nice and see a noticable difference. Ill see how it goes for the next couple days and do a water change in two days.

Im prepping a 75g build with pictures and use this tank to grow some initial plants for my 75g while i look for rock and Driftwood to fit my setup.


----------



## Xirxes

Plantme said:


> I just did this treatment without the EXCEL because i couldnt find any locally but i did the H2O2 treatment.
> 
> 
> 
> My tank is not VERY redish pink. I dont know if this is the bacteria dying off or the algea. I had very little hair algae but it did nuke the Black algae quite nice and see a noticable difference. Ill see how it goes for the next couple days and do a water change in two days.
> 
> 
> 
> Im prepping a 75g build with pictures and use this tank to grow some initial plants for my 75g while i look for rock and Driftwood to fit my setup.



Read my post. Red happens. I think it's iron oxidizing. It clears within 3-4 days.


----------



## Witticaster

Reporting in: I have a 46 gallon bowfront that was absolutely riddled with BBA and I was at my wits end, so I tried this treatment last Thursday. Removed the filter media from my Aquaclear 50 and Aquaclear 70 and set them aside in a bucket of tank water, then did a 15 minute H2O2 treatment as recommended followed by the 5mg per 10 gallons of Excel. It took a while to drain out the H2O2 and complete the water change, but none of my fish (four goldfish, a BN pleco, and several otocinclus) seemed distressed aside from the customary darting around that the otos do whenever water changes happen. My nerite snail made a beeline for the top of the tank, but settled down soon afterwards.

There wasn't a whole lot of change on Friday aside from possibly a slight red tinge to some of the algae. Checked my water parameters and my cycle was intact. After that, I had to go away for the weekend, so I blacked out the tank on Saturday and Sunday for good measure. 

I came back today on Monday, and ALL the algae is gone except for a few red-tinged strands on my Anubias! Even the gunk in my HOB intake tubes is gone! All my fish are alive and looking healthy, and my plants have thrown dozens of new leaves now that they can breathe. Thank you so much for writing out such an effective and easy-to-understand guide--it was a lifesaver.


----------



## chiefroastbeef

Wow, great thread, I had an imbalance in my 60p tank a couple months ago due to getting married and slightly losing interest in my tank. BBA started to grow on some leaves of my anubias, bucephalandra, crypt, bolbitus and driftwood (my tank currently is a low tech, low maintenance, slow growing tank). There isn't a lot of BBA, I'll have to look in specific places to see some, but it's there and they don't seem to be going away. Anyway, it's good to know there is a working solution to combat BBA should I decide to totally get rid of it.

I currently have 40+ fire red cherry shrimp, along with small tetras and some rasboras and pygmy cories. If I decide to do this down the road, I'll make a trap and get as many shrimp and fish as I can out of the tank before I nuke it.

Good luck to you guys, and thank you for sharing your experiences! BBA is the slithering serpent of planted tanks...


----------



## bpb

I read up through page 9, and skipped here to the end. That's alot of reading. Enough to where I'll start forgetting what I read previous. Forgive me if I skipped something and am asking an old-hat question. 

I was referred here by someone on my tank journal listed in my sig below. My tank is a 75 gallon medium tech planted. I've been running it for years and years and years, but broken down and rebuilt several times after becoming bored/dissatisfied. The only filter on the tank is an Eheim 2217 which has been in operation now for about 5 years solid, cleaned about once a year or so. Knowing how pitiful flow they have, I'm on the low end at about 150 gph maybe (with the 4 foot head, and spraybar) so I've only got 2x total tank volume turnover. I had previously tried to put a koralia 750 on the tank years ago, and killed several dozen fish who were not adapt to handle those kinds of currents. I'll soon be installing a co2 reactor that will add a little flow to the tank. Considering adding the koralia again, and maybe just cycling it 30 minutes on/30 minutes off all day? Give the fish a chance to recover and build up their swim strength?

Anyhow to the root of the thread. I'm considering the one-two punch treatment. I recnetly tore down the tank and re-did the substrate with brand new floramax and Miracle gro organic choice potting mix, and ditched most of my plants but kept a few. I've replanted alot since then, but most my plants are still young and haven't quite filled out. Shooting for the dense Dutch scape look. 

Tank is now at the 3 week old mark, but still using my same filter which is mature and working. I've had BBA off and on for a couple years now, usually just growing on the oldest leaves of my old amazon sword I used to have, and here and there on some of the older dwarf sag leaves. I would typically trim them off every month or so as it was at a pretty stable level. 

Ever since redoing the tank, BBA has began to explode. Its starting to cover even the lower 1/2 leaves of the sunset hygro, all over the remaining dwarf sag, all over the crypts, covering the driftwood and filter intakes. It's even starting to form large patches on the back glass/acrylic panel. I've increased my co2 heavily after this rebuild, trying to get a healthy carpet going. Runs an hour before lights on, to an hour before lights off (so about 8 hours a day for 8 hour photoperiod) and turns off via solenoid timer. Drop checker is yellow and bubble count is about 4 bubbles per second.

I also do the full strength EI dosing recommendation, dosing both csm+b and kh2po4 and kno3 all together, monday, wednesday, and friday. 50% water change on a weekend day (whichever is convenient). 

Light is coralife 2x54 watt t5ho with GE 6500k bulbs, directly on tank rim, bulbs about a year old

Livestock:

Synodontis Eupterus (featherfin catfish)
3 Otos
several dozen black bar endler/guppies
one tiger barb
one neon tetra
one clown pleco

Plants:

staurogyne repens
pogostemon helferi
hygrophilia thai (brown)
hygrophilia polysperma (sunset)
dwarf sag
crypt wendtii
lobelia cardinalis
bacopa caroliniana
rotala rotundifolia
rotala occultiflora
alternanthera reineckii 

Plan: on water change day (kill 2 birds with one stone right?)

Cut eheim filter entirely, put koralia powerhead in tank, at one end, top blowing across, this should essentially create a gyre bringing flow everywhere, but I can move it around if necessary

Dose 2 TBSB per 10 gallons (estimated 60 gallon water volume) = 12 tablespoons

wait 15 minutes

perform 50% water change. This will take about 30 minutes. I may buy a thicker diameter hose to help drain the tank faster. my 1/2" ID hose takes painfully long to drain

Refill tank, leave koralia in, turn eheim filter back on

Dose 30 mL of excel (5mL per 10 gallon). Leave koralia running another 30 minutes or so to ensure even distribution of excel

Does this plan look decent? What concerns should I have based on my flora and fauna listed above?


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## FatherLandDescendant

bpb said:


> I also do the full strength EI dosing recommendation, dosing both csm+b and kh2po4 and kno3 all together, monday, wednesday, and friday.


CSM+B should be dosed opposite of your kh2po4 and kno3. If you do kno3 and kh2po4 on M,W,F then you's dose CSM+B on T,T,S. Something about one making the other precipitate out.

BBA is attributed to inconsistent CO2 from what I've read. There are lower flow powerheads that you could go with to create current throughout your tank. If you can't address the "why" of the algae problem then it's just going to come back.

Aside from that I did this treatment in my 40b with a BGA issue, lost 2 small tetras in the process is all. I followed the instructions to the letter and everything was fine, your plan sounds good.


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## Beefy

bpb said:


> Does this plan look decent? What concerns should I have based on my flora and fauna listed above?


As I said in your other thread, I think you should just start with Excel as per the recommendations on the bottle. The one-two is a last resort, and I don't think you have exhausted your other options.


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## ichy

"punched" my tank this morning followed dosing directions, with 4tbsp per gallon. One hour in and fish look fine.

Question...do you see any fizzing from the h202 during the 15min of dosing?


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## Diana

You might see fizzing, but if you have a strong water current going then the bubbles might be getting blown off the algae before they are big enough to see.


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## BigXor

chiefroastbeef said:


> Wow, great thread, I had an imbalance in my 60p tank a couple months ago due to getting married and slightly losing interest in my tank. BBA started to grow on some leaves of my anubias, bucephalandra, crypt, bolbitus and driftwood (my tank currently is a low tech, low maintenance, slow growing tank). There isn't a lot of BBA, I'll have to look in specific places to see some, but it's there and they don't seem to be going away. Anyway, it's good to know there is a working solution to combat BBA should I decide to totally get rid of it.
> 
> I currently have 40+ fire red cherry shrimp, along with small tetras and some rasboras and pygmy cories. If I decide to do this down the road, I'll make a trap and get as many shrimp and fish as I can out of the tank before I nuke it.
> 
> Good luck to you guys, and thank you for sharing your experiences! BBA is the slithering serpent of planted tanks...



I did this method and my Rasbora's were in such distress that I had to make up an emergency 5 gallon bucket. They were easy to catch in their state. I lost 3 out of 8. The catfish and snails did OK. I lost a few RCS.


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## ichy

read most of the thread but don't know if I saw the answer.
After the initial double dose of excel, do you keep dosing on subsequent days with a regular dose?
I would eventually like to stop dosing excel if my algae starts dying back.


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## dzega

ichy said:


> read most of the thread but don't know if I saw the answer.
> After the initial double dose of excel, do you keep dosing on subsequent days with a regular dose?
> I would eventually like to stop dosing excel if my algae starts dying back.


i strongly suggest to continue dosing excel daily. it after all primarily actually is an algecide.


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## ichy

24 hr update. I'm seeing lots of red algae, My java moss has red streaks in it, lots of clumps of red dying algae. It didn't appear to hurt the BBA do badly, so I'm spot treating right now. But overall it looks like it set the algae back a good bit!

In terms of the livestock, all is good, my guppy is pooping out little ones through this whole treatment and they are all doing OK, which may be a mixed blessing!


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## ichy

1 week check in...very impressed!

Not one fatality of livestock. All the stag horn is toast and my BBA is on its way out! I did follow up with a couple days of spot treating some BBA.

And I'm dosing Excel on a daily basis, but my algae problems are on their way out!


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## Orca2013

how much ml is 2 tbsp?


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## Maryland Guppy

1 tbsp. = 15ml.

I hope I did not post in haste.
This is according to a strange measuring device I own.


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## bpb

I one two punch'd. Within 24 hrs I had 2-3 guppy deaths and one neon tetra death. In the week that followed I had another 10 or so guppy deaths (I have well over 100 of them), and an oto death, but I honestly attribute that to me gassing them because I really cranked the co2. Not bad overall. My problem is that I still seem to have a little stubborn bba that hung around. Killed off a good 90% of it, and have been doing a 2mL per 10 gal maintenance daily dose since then. Do you guys do multiple treatments? Like repeat the 1-2 punch every 2 weeks or monthly?


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## Kntry

Orca2013 said:


> how much ml is 2 tbsp?


2 Tbsp. = 29.57 ml


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## Desertsp

Great idea!

I wonder if sensitive plants could be protected by doing the treatment while the plants are in a "dormant" state, so they're less likely to intake the chemicals? Thinking maybe this state (if it even exists) could be triggered by darkness, low CO2, or lower temperatures. Anything that would reduce the rate that the plants are exchanging molecules with their surroundings.


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## Orca2013

My steps with 240L planted aquarium;
H2O2
1) Did not remove filter media from canister filter 1000l/h. Also I have aditional pump 1800L
2) Now added 175ml 3% H2O2, 
3) Let this circulate for 15 mins.
4) Terminate Treatment
5) Do a 50% water change. Removing 50% of a 240l added 30 more mins.

Liquid CO2
7) Added 15ml EI Carboliquid 8) 
Done and Pray! hahaha

5 hrs later everything looks OK.

Will report tomorrow


----------



## FatherLandDescendant

Orca2013 said:


> My steps with 240L planted aquarium;
> H2O2
> 1) Did not remove filter media from canister filter 1000l/h. Also I have


Probably killed all of your beneficial bacteria in your filter. You should have remover the filter media before doing the treatment. I suggest you go to wallmart and get some tetra safe start to help recycle your tank.


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## Orca2013

I have sera filter biostart. Can i use it in aquarium instead in filter cose i cand open filter?


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## Orca2013

It looks like 170ml of hydrogen was not enough for my 240l aquarium.
1. cyanobacteria has disappeared but has reappear after day or two.
2. BBA witch was the reason i used hydrogen did not disappeared almost at all.
I had no casualties at all.

Should i use more hydrogen?


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## ichy

Did you dose Excel afterwards? If the algae is dead you see a noticeable red appearance to it after a couple days.


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## exv152

I wouldn't use anymore h2o2 unless you turn off your filter. I'd also do the excel/glut treatment and do a blackout period where you cover your tank for 3-4 days with absolutely no light whatsoever. Then give it a week and repeat the same thing if necessary.


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## Orca2013

ichy said:


> Did you dose Excel afterwards? If the algae is dead you see a noticeable red appearance to it after a couple days.


I Added 15ml EI Carboliquid


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## biglos201

BlackDiamondShrimp said:


> Wow cool technique. I have used most of those steps, but now ur thread filled me in on some missing info. Afraid to use Excel tho, since I have had shrimp deaths after using Excel before, anyone had this experience before with Excel?


Sorry for the late reply, not sure if anyone has answered your question but I have 5 amano shrimp and dose excel daily with no problems. I'm about to try this method of the one two punch for my 55 gallon planted. The green dust algae is really beginning to get to me. Its a newly setup tank that was transfered over from a 55 gallon glass (now acrylic). I know this might just have to do with a new tank setup but I'll give it a few more weeks before I nuke.


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## ichy

I did the treatment about a month ago AS PER DIRCTIONS. I have 3 amano and 3 ghost shrimp in the tank. None of them were affected by the treatment.
(Except they are hunger due to lack of algae).
It was a very affective treatment.

That said, if you read the entire thread, shrimp seem to be rather hit or miss. A lot of variables with organisms, if they are stressed they may not pull through well, etc.
So if you are really going to do the treatment, maybe consider the shrimp expendable, and if they pull through, bonus?


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## biglos201

ichy said:


> I did the treatment about a month ago AS PER DIRCTIONS. I have 3 amano and 3 ghost shrimp in the tank. None of them were affected by the treatment.
> (Except they are hunger due to lack of algae).
> It was a very affective treatment.
> 
> That said, if you read the entire thread, shrimp seem to be rather hit or miss. A lot of variables with organisms, if they are stressed they may not pull through well, etc.
> So if you are really going to do the treatment, maybe consider the shrimp expendable, and if they pull through, bonus?


I'm strapping up my boots and diving in! Would this work for green dust algae? 

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


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## ichy

biglos201 said:


> I'm strapping up my boots and diving in! Would this work for green dust algae?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


Not as much. It is tough to get the H202 inside to really disrupt cell life.


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## The Big Buddha

I gave this a try on my 40B, 8 tablespoons. 15 mins with tons of flow, 60% WC, then 8 ml of metricide.
The BBA looked a little lighter in color, not grey, white or red though. On day three I lost 2 rasabora, one orange Von rio tetra.
Should I try the original dose of 4 tablespoons per 10g?
My peroxide is a new container as well.


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## roadmaster

If condition's that brought the various form's of algae are not corrected ,the one two punch,and other treatment's will only bring temporary result's.
Need to train ones effort's on what plant's need and don't need, and then you can spend less time treating algae and more time studying rates of growth with your plant's.
Need to figure out what you are doing that might be hampering growth of plant's and encouraging the algae.
If you can't /won't do this..then no one algae treatment or combination thereof is gonna bring an end to the algae.
You will just be trading fixes for one type of algae for another, and the algae is very likely to return in one form or another.
Need to combine algae treament's with making correction's needed to prevent it's return.
I learned this truth the hard way.


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## bpb

Did one successful treatment several months ago, but life happened and I wasn't able to care for the tank as closely, missed several weeks of water changes and co2 ran out. Plant growth had become so dense it was virtually 12" of packed stems with no leaves for most the tanks footprint and the entire bottom 6" of the tank was a tangled mess of pure BBA and some kind of green cladophora type wirey hair algae. 

This time around after manually removing as much as I could, I did the full 4 tbsp per 10 gallon like the original recommendation on peroxide. 3 days later no deaths, not even snails, and the algae is really disappearing. Much moreso than it did with the 2 tbsp per 10 gallons. I also let it circulate for a lot longer than 15 minutes. Went more like 30.


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## Blacktetra

Trying this 1-2 punch out myself.
Removed my subwassertang, and one jungle val in case the others get nuked. I'm not sure what to do with the subwassertang. I think it has clado, and if so a blackout treatment won't do any good.

I also removed all my fish and most of my shrimp to help.

After doing so I even ended up doubling the H2O2 dose half way through (8 mins with suggested amount, 8 mins with additional dose).

After dosing the glut though I was nervous about the vals (I really enjoy them) so after waiting 20 minutes with high flow, just like with the H2O2 I did another massive water change, hopefully removing most of what remained of the H2O2, and bringing the glut concentration back down pretty close to a normal 1.5X the recommended dose on the bottle.

With all the water change I didn't want to shock the fish when I reintroduced, so I'm currently working to help match the old tank Nitrate and Gh params in the new water.

*crosses fingers*
We'll see.
I expect some shrimp death given the massive amount of H2O2 and the glut spike, and the nitrate drop and return (from ~50ppm to 0 then back to ~50 in an hour is not gentle I dont think).
I'm also going to be keeping really close tabs on ammonia the next two or three days, and feeding sparsely.


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## ichy

You really dont want to do too many water changes right off the bat without keeping the glut level at the high rate...that's the 2 of the 1-2 punch and to dilute the glut(hey that rhymes and I mean it!) is kind of cheating the process.


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## Blacktetra

Yes, but I can't imagine my vals doing well with that kind of glut concentration. If I don't see improvement then I'll know that it isn't enough to only dose the high amount for 30 minutes. Plus if the vals struggle they die, break down, release ammonia and nutrients and assist algae rather than fight it.
I still worry I just wasted 4 hours but hopefully with the high flow the glut had time to do some of the work needed.


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## Blacktetra

All my vals are slowly going pale/translucent, but not all their leaves, so I'm praying they survive. The algae may not be gone, it's looking worse each day, but I'm not sure if it's going to kill it all off, but at least the vast majority is looking paler and is swaying more in the current each day. It's now been 3 days and I've concluded that using the full strength glut dose would have killed my algae for sure, but it may have also killed off my vals. I'm suspecting that with the root tabs in the soil, and the roots the vals have, they will spring back eventually, but I'll need to trim off their dying leaves soon or risk having them breakdown and contribute to algae coming back.
The val I seperated from the tank during the treatment looks the same as prior, so I'm fairly certain the treatment is what is killing the val leaves, not my use of 1.5X glut dose afterwards (I was previously only using 0.75 which I slowly increased for a month prior to reach 1X so the vals would adjust.)
I'm going to call this a partial success. And recommend to anyone with vals to be cautious. And definitely avoid doing this treatment with full glut dosage if your vals are brand new and have yet to establish a good root system.


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## max88

Did the one-two punches on Feb 06, 2016. Most algae have disappeared. The side effects caused a goldfish's death.
This is the list of steps done on a 56G tank:
1. Move all fish (6 goldfish and 1 Siamese Algae Eater), and 20% filter media, to another tank.
2. Move the remaining 80% filter media to a bucket with existing tank water.
3. Turned on Fluval 306 canister and maxijet 300 power head, plus a pump for added water flow.
4. Dump 300ml H2O2 into 56G tank (50G water).
5. Wait 30 minutes. Redirected water flow a few times.
6. In next 30 minutes, pump out 60% old water. Refill with tap water, add prime, turned on Fluval 306 + maxijet 300. Remove pump.
7. Add 25ml Excel.
8. Wait 15 minutes, put all filter media back, move all fish back to 56G tank.
There were a lot of small gas bubbles in the tank for the next few/ten hours.

24 hours later, all the brown algae disappeared, the plants look much greener. Sadly, a pearl scaled goldfish died. Ammonia reading was 0.5+ppm at that time. Nitrite (NO2) was 0ppm. The rise in ammonia reading was probably due to the combination of reduced bacteria in filter media, and the spike of organic matter (dead algae).

36 hours later, ammonia reading was 2.0+ppm, nitrite (NO2) was 0ppm. I immediately added 5x prime, move all fish to another tank, and did an 80% water change (and added 3x prime). Ammonia reading was 0.5ppm, nitrite (NO2) was 0ppm. The goldfish had to be moved back to the tank, because tiger/rosy/odessa barbs keep nipping on them in the other tank.

There is still some BBA around the canister filter pipes and water return, not sure if they are alive or dead. Will wait and see.

Conclusion: this method works, but beware of the side effects to fish or other live stocks.


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## Max

[Update] Within a week all staghorn was gone passing from black through pinkish to completely white and eaten. I have lost a fish in the process but that was not purely as a result of the treatment. The fish has been previously stressed and the treatment was probably the last stroke. Overall, I call this treatment a success and will keep doing this whenever there is a necessity.

Hi, I want to reconfirm that it seems to work, I am only ~24 hours since I have performed the treatment but I have noticed that the algae turns reddish. I can reconfirm as well that the water becomes cloudy afterwards. Probably to the massive bacteria death or bloom. Not sure at the moment. I have added this thread to my subscription list. Let's see how it would turn.


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## usgetata

Three weeks after I re-setup my ADA 60H planted tank I got crazy GHA, GW and cloudy water. I kept changing water but thing were getting worse.

Last nights I decided to do the One-Two punch. While dosing H2o2 I added a eheim pump and directed the flow to blow directly on the GHA. 
Like 10 minutes after I added 2 capful of Excel the Amano shrimps started swimming around trying to hide...
Did a 60% water change, call it a night and hope for the best.

Today When the light turned on the tank is much cleaner! The water is no longer greenish. About 70% of the GHA is gone and the rest looked weaken.

Counted my live stock. Amano shrimps, Ghost Shrimps, CRS, Chinese alage eaters and clown killifish babies are all alive!

I added a bunch of floater just to see if it can help further improve the situation and keep it clear.

Thank you for the one-two punch method. It worked for me.


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## BrassFinger

I gave this process a try over this past weekend on my fully planted, low tech 20H tank. I've been battling with first some hair or thread type algae, but that went away only to be replaced with BBA that has been stubborn to get rid of but fortunately fairly slow growing. I have been battling it by cutting and removing the heavily affected leaves, but that only serves to keep it in check, not eliminate it.

I run the standard dose of Excel even though it is a low-light tank (2 8" clamp lights sitting on the Versa-top with 9W 6500K CFL lamps). I'm guessing there are medium to high-ish light areas directly under the lights, but overall it's low. Substrate is PFS, and I use Flourish root tabs and Flourish liquid for micros. I have 5 spotted corys and a BN pleco in there. I tried spot dosing once with the Excel but ended up burning half the tail off one of the corys. Fortunately, he's just fine and it's growing back...whew!

Anyway, I pulled the filter media, added another HOB with no media and a small powerhead, dosed with 6 tbs. of peroxide and waited 15 min. Did the 50% change, and added the starter dose of Excel. Corys and pleco completely unfazed by the treatment.

The next day the water clouded up just a tiny bit, but ammonia and nitrite were both zero. It appears the BBA took a significant hit, turning reddish and grey/white color. I'm hoping it's dead but if I need to I'll tread it again with no hesitation since the fish did so well with it. 

Chris


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## Jaye

I just blacked out my 29 gallon now-quarantine/formerly main/soon to be shrimp tank for a week to control green hair algae that had taken hold in the hairgrass, whicih is basically the only plant in the tank at the moment. Uncovered the tank this evening and the algae is basically gone. Will need to do a big vac tomorrow as there's dead algae everywhere, but dead is the goal here, so that's NBD.


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## elisagrace

This is really a nice information for protection against algae. Earlier I tried H202, but it was not much successful. Thereafter as per your direction I used Excel and it helped me a lot in protection against algae. 

But this formula is not fit in the case of cleaning of algae in big water storage tanks. Here it will be better to use small amount of chlorine, as it will not allow to the growth of algae bacteria in the water.


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## lovingHDTV

I did this last week as I have been fighting with algae for a few months. I made a lot of changes to my tank and it got out of whack. I was about ready to just start over.

All the green algae is gone. It took a few days as it would slowly cover my intake prefilter with a slimy goo. The BBA turned a bit grey, but I then noticed the snails and fish were eating it. It looks like whatever the treatment did to the BBA the fish are now eating it and it is almost completely gone as well.

I think I got my CO2 and lights aligned so hopefully it doesn't come back, but it is one more tool in my belt to fix things when they go badly wrong.

thanks,
david


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## thimotheeyy

My algae problems where mainly diatoms and blue green algae [Cyanobacteria]. Spot treatment with H202 was successful but now i want to really kill the BGA. 

I tried this method as following;
- Catched my twenty Rasbora Galaxy's
- Switched of my filter
- Added three pumps for sufficiënt flow.
- I have ADA's 60P which has 63 liters but with the soil, hardscape and not filled up to the top i count for 50 liter. I added 25ml of H202
- I let it circulate for twenty minutes and during that time i took one pump to move it al around the tank.
- Refreshed thirty liters of water.
- Added 15ml of liquid carbon
- One hour after that i placed the fish again
- No deaths so far.

I did not see any bubbles or sizzling as i used to see doing spot treatment. Can someone please read this and check if i pulled the one two successfully or i did something wrong.

Did i add enough H202?


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## InfiniteGlory

According to what I have found as a dose of 2ml per gallon of H2O2. You dosed the correct amount. 

I think the reason why you didn't see any bubbles is because all the H2O2 was being moved around and not allowed to sit. I always saw bubbles with the filter OFF but never with it ON.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## thimotheeyy

Thanks for your reply!

Even when i dosed it correctly the BGA is growing again. I also see signs of diatoms forming. I know a cleaning crew could help but i really hoped this method would kill it instantly. Like a hard reset.

You say i dosed correctly but do you mean with 2tbsp or 4tbsp. I ment to dose 4tbsp.
Should i retry it and put a higher dose of H2O2? I always catch my livestock so that is not a problem...

Any others with BGA [Blue green algae or Cyanobacteria] succesfully killing it with the one two punch? If this does not work i will try the blackout method.


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## InfiniteGlory

I dosed at 2ml per gallon, with the filter OFF and had bubbles. The results didn't happen until I started to dose Excel after I stopped using h2o2.

I was only attacking BBA so I am not sure about BGA

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## Swee

I have a few tanks. I have a Planted +24/7 Finnex on one and a UGF. It's a 12 gallon bookshelf 36" with one half non UGF with a Fluval Nano on the opposite end of course. Had a major cyano breakout that I had clear up on its own by reducing the 24/7 to moonlights at night and midday sun the rest of the time. From what what I gleaned, the orange and reddish spectrum help fuel the cyano. I also increased the ferts a little.

I also have a 20H with the slimy hair algae, the really long and flowy kind, light tricks didn't work. I have a HOB Whisper 20 and a sponge filter PH combo so there is always lots of bubbles on all of my plants. Oh this tank is dirted an inch with inert on top. Anyway, I pulled the trigger and did the One Two Punch last night. All of the bubbles were white within 15 minutes. I dosed at 7.5mL based on 15 gallons. Lots of rocks and wood and 2.5 inches of total bottom. 50% change and replaced the biologicals and hit it with Carbon. I saw the stringy stuff starting to lose its hold. This morning everyone was still alive RCS, Nerites and Otto's. I will post a follow up in a few days but thanks for pioneering this method! Greatly appreciated indeed!


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## Swee

Correction, it was 3 Tablespoons of H2O2 and 7.5 mL of liquid CO2, apologies


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## Swee

All inhabitants made it through even a Nerite. The tank is looking pretty good again so thank you very much once more. I did lose an Otto but I mean literally. I had 3 in there but can find the third one anywhere. He must of jumped ship as I have been through the tank multiple times with no luck. Awesome technique


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## Malakian

Just did it to my 55g tank after a restart.

Aprox. 3tbsp pr 10 gallon. Dosed 220ml 3% H2O2 to my tank. Added 4000L/H worth of circulation pumps + my FX5 without media.
15-20min, then 70% WC. Dosed 30ml Excel after WC. 

No deaths. Fauna include, Cardinal tetra, C.Sterbai, B.pleco, platy and cherry shrimp.
All plants seem unaffected this far (24hr after) HC, L.Glandulose, Buce. "Wavy green", weeping moss, Microsorum "trident", H.Siamensis, H. sp "compact", AR "mini", S.repens, P.Erectus.

GSA mostly gone, all BBA and staghorn pink/red/white. Just recently had a slight staghorn outbreak, never had a issue with it before. But I'm contributing that to the new Tropica aquasoil which gave me a slight Ammonia spike @ 0.25ppm for about 4 days.


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## TormentedFishTank

I tried this yesterday and so far I'm not having great results. The best news is that none of my fish or plants died as a result of the treatment, but then neither did any of my algae.

I have a 20g H, with 15g's of water in it, after all is said and done. I dosed 6 tbsps. 

For flow, I have a JUP-22 UV sterilizer and I added a Maxi-jet 400. It had a ton of flow in the tank, I'm wondering if maybe too much?

I let the flow go for 15 minutes, turned it off and did a 50% water change. Then followed it up with a double dose of excel. A few hours later I added some bacteria since the only filter I have is a HOB with filter floss in it, so it's not enough bacteria to hold the cycle.

I did get some false pearling from my dwarf baby tears, and I noticed some micro bubbles caught inside the algae(long stringy hair algae is what I have all over). Today the algae aren't as bright of a green as it was yesterday, move of an olive color like it wants to turn gray but hasn't. So I think it has weakened, but not died.

Should I hit it with another dose or keep waiting?


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## TormentedFishTank

TormentedFishTank said:


> I tried this yesterday and so far I'm not having great results. The best news is that none of my fish or plants died as a result of the treatment, but then neither did any of my algae.
> 
> I have a 20g H, with 15g's of water in it, after all is said and done. I dosed 6 tbsps.
> 
> For flow, I have a JUP-22 UV sterilizer and I added a Maxi-jet 400. It had a ton of flow in the tank, I'm wondering if maybe too much?
> 
> I let the flow go for 15 minutes, turned it off and did a 50% water change. Then followed it up with a double dose of excel. A few hours later I added some bacteria since the only filter I have is a HOB with filter floss in it, so it's not enough bacteria to hold the cycle.
> 
> I did get some false pearling from my dwarf baby tears, and I noticed some micro bubbles caught inside the algae(long stringy hair algae is what I have all over). Today the algae aren't as bright of a green as it was yesterday, move of an olive color like it wants to turn gray but hasn't. So I think it has weakened, but not died.
> 
> Should I hit it with another dose or keep waiting?


Nevermind this, turns out H2O2 can go bad after being open for 6 months, and I'm sure mine was well beyond 6 months. So I pretty much dosed with water, which would explain the effects.


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## Igor95

Planning on doing this, was wondering if its safe for kuhli's


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## roadmaster

I have used the method strictly as was presented, and saw no harm to cherry shrimps which are way more sensitive than fishes IMHO
Would not deviate from the method as described.
Have seen all manner of folks take liberty with the method by using more/less,along with this/that, and feel any problems that may or may not appear by doing likewise are largely self inflicted issues.
Feel that if the condition's that allowed for the algae to proliferate are not corrected,then temporary result's are bout all that can be hoped for with any method of algae control.
Most would rather watch plants grow than battle algae so ...


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## Patriot

I need to try this. BBA is starting to form in my tank. I am worried above the crypts. Last time I used H202 they melted. 

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## diverjoe

*Algae GONE! Only lost 1 amano*

Quick Stats:
- 75g Tank overrun by GHA, couple spots of BBA
- Heavy planted, driftwood, rocks
- Serapae, Bosmani Rainbowfish, Butterfly loaches, ottos, neons, amano, Kribensis, Blue Rams, Leopard Danios, Harlequin Rasboros, corys - juli and panda?
- Assumed 60g for calculations
- 3tbs / 10g H2O2
- recommended for Excel
- Light user of Excel (off and on)
- Remineralized 30g RO (99uS) with recommended Equilibrium + tsp Calcium Carbonate for KH, ph 7
- Filter bypassed - used pump for re-circ - Sicce ~600 gph
- 200gph in tank circ 
- Dosed H2O2 for 15min
- siphoned 6 5g buckets using substrate vac - all 6 were black with mulm 
- BDBS substrate
- took 10min to complete drain
- used Sicce to re-fill tank
- Dosed Excel
- Added filter back into pump line
- Added air stone

Waited 1 day and then trimmed what still looked like a few green strands. The HUGE Amazon Sword has it tips all the way up to the surface and it looked like a little made it. Most all of the heavy "fur" covering turned brown. I decided not to wait until it fell off and decomposed and went ahead and trimmed all the covered leaves. 


Before:
https://www.flickr.com/gp/diverjoe/eDY1m3

After:
https://flic.kr/p/YqBbRy

You can look at the rest of the pics/details in the photo album here:
https://www.flickr.com/gp/diverjoe/Mt330p


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## kopic

Hi. I'm a newbie to planted tank. Recently encounter some algae issue and required you guy to help me identify what type of algae or bacteria is that? I have problem posting pictures. Only can provides the link to my thread:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/23-algae/1196794-need-help-identify-what-algae-bacteria.html

Can this 1-2 punch method be used on my tank problem? or simply a blackout method will do? Currently only DHG in my tank. No other live stock. Thank you for your assiatance


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## devisissy

So I have some serious BBA. In fact this is my last attempt before I break down the tank. So I followed instructions exactly. I do a weekly 50% water change anyway so I didn't see any harm in a water change that big. I already dose Excel so that also wasn't going to shock anything. 

I removed the fish and put them in the bucket I put my media in. Which consists of matrix and one sponge. Going off others experiences I removed the fish because they are scaleless pea puffers and 12 year old tetras. I was unable to catch the cardinals. 

Tank is 29 gal, heavily planted, sand bottomed, using finnex 24/7 on max with one geismann 24 watt tropic t5. Co2 is 3 bubbles a second and I use EI dosing. 

I was controlling the BBA well and it was almost gone until I changed two things. I added the t5 thinking I needed more light and I stopped dosing Excel thinking I didn't need the extra expense. Over night the BBA took hold. 

Changes I will make, removed T5, daily dosing of Excel. Shorter light period from 9 to 7 hours. More aggressive vacuuming of sand because there I'd an excess of mulm. 

So fish are removed. I added two 300gph power heads along with my cascade 1000 for flow. Cardinals hid. Put 4 tablespoons of H2O2 in spray bottle. Water level was already a bit low because of removal of canister media. Sprayed all above water line very well then dumped the rest in. Cardinals are not upset just trying to swim against current. Lots of flow. No bubbling until 10minutes in, at 13 minutes some alage turning red, BBA looks un effected. Cardinals are fine. Turn off flow and begin draining tank. Now its bubbling, more alage turning red, BBA un effected. Cardinals curious. I feed my puffers live snails, they are not seen. 

Refill tank with my measure of ro to tap. Tank is really bubbling, no change in algae. Put removed fish back in and return media. Tabk water is turning red and cloudy. Finish filling tank add excel then flip lights off and I don't use co2 for the rest of the day. 

Next day, tank is clear, some alage is reddish no change in BBA. I decide to do another 50% water change because ammonia is detectable. Notice the BBA shluffs off easier, still hard to remove on most plants. It doesn't to appear to have killed the BBA at all. 

After the water change today I added 3ml of algaefix, I use it weekly anyway. Will add Excel at 5ml per 10gal tomorrow as is norm. So I'm thinking this did nothing, but hopefully my changes will help and the the combined chemicals will give me a handhold.






























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## devisissy

Ok so came home from work to find no difference in bba. Also green spot alage seems worse. I'm wide open for suggestions.























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## Nlewis

There’s no way I know of to remove GSA from plant leaves other than trimming the leaves off. A lot of stem plants need to be topped and replanted.


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## JusticeBeaver

Small snails actually can help clear algae off leaves. Even if they don't eat it they will crawl around on it and knock it off. You do need to reduce feeding in your tank though so that they go for the algae rather than other food.


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## devisissy

JusticeBeaver said:


> Small snails actually can help clear algae off leaves. Even if they don't eat it they will crawl around on it and knock it off. You do need to reduce feeding in your tank though so that they go for the algae rather than other food.


I have a puffer. Snails are short lived in this tank. So I think its a tear down because I'm done. I've sunk so much money into trying to fix this tank. 


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## devisissy

devisissy said:


> I have a puffer. Snails are short lived in this tank. So I think its a tear down because I'm done. I've sunk so much money into trying to fix this tank.
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Actually thinking a few short lived nerites, a troop of true sae, and maybe 16 otos. Lol! 

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## JusticeBeaver

devisissy said:


> Actually thinking a few short lived nerites, a troop of true sae, and maybe 16 otos. Lol!
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


The trick is to not go overboard with algae eaters since you'll need to supplement food when all the algae is gone. You could always rehome your puffer for a week while you let some nerites loose in your tank to clean up the bba. When you put your puffer back he'll have a nice little treat for him.


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## devisissy

Well an update. I added back the t5. Turned up the co2 and still dose excel daily. I also dosed algaefix twice. Planning a large water change and will scrape and remove as much as I can. There is still a ton of bba though.
















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## CricketMcLean

I read the original post and over 50 comments but there are Sooo many. Did the prescribed dose ever get modified for larger tanks that take quite some time to water change? Thanks

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## madcrafted

After battling with green hair algae infested moss for the last few weeks in my Fuval spec V tank, I decided to give this technique a shot, three days ago. The first thing I did was manually removed as much as I could. Pretty much just fluffed the algae up real nice. This stubborn species just seems to thrive no matter what I do to it. I've done spot treatments of both Excel and peroxide with no success. The smaller hairs always remain, followed by a massive growth spurt a couple days later with threads damn near the length of the tank.

Anyways, I followed the steps as described and used 15 ml of H2O2 (new bottle)for my 5 gallons. I removed bio media and then let the H202 run for about 20 minutes. I just used the stock pump and moved the output nozzle to blast the badly affected area. Only one nerite snail fell off the glass during this phase. He seemed fine after landing on the substrate, just stunted. All 6 of my Amano shrimps continued to graze as usual, totally unaffected by the dose. Followed up with step two and dosed Excel at 2.5 mL for my tank after doing a 50% WC. I let that run all day/night, while enjoying the bubble show. I could see clumps of bubble covered algae float to the top. Fun stuff. 

The next day I checked my stock... everybody accounted for! 6 nerites, 6 Amanos and a frisky betta. Yay! Everyone was grazing happily as if nothing ever happened. Maybe I just have a tough clean up crew, or I got lucky, either way, the hair algae looks pretty beat up, but not totally dead. I can at least tell that there is moss there now. haha. The remaining hair seems to just disintegrate when I touch it now. I've been doing 50% WC the last couple days, while siphoning up as much dying algae off the moss as I can. The reason for the daily water changes is to reduce the nitrates that are steadily rising throughout the day. Everyday the vial is nearly red, indicating roughly 40-50 ppm. My guess is the dying bits of algae are releasing nitrates into the water column. I'm also still dosing Excel everyday after each water change at 2X regular dosing (1 ML/ 5 gallon). I'm hoping this will finish it off, along with reduced lighting.

I think I may know where the problem originated... too little plant mass and too much light, despite having sufficient amount of CO2 (30 ppm +). Being as I have an Iwagumi-like tank, adding a ton of plants isn't something I want to do. I may add some floating plants later on, but I doubt it. This is a tough balancing act for such a small tank, I'm aware of that. I'm hoping that by cutting light intensity will help somewhat. I'm also dosing 1/4 EI for this particular tank, due to the low plant mass and plant requirements. 

Another theory I have is that the moss itself is acting like a water filter, collecting detritus and waste. This particular moss seems like a magnet for this stuff, as I can see shrimp poop burried in the webs of this invasive algae. I may have stirred up the substrate too much while re-arranging things a few weeks back. It's probably more like a combination of all these things that has overun my moss with this filamentous algae. 

The first issue has been solved by adding a PWM dimmer switch for my LED light (16" Finnex planted plus). I am now running roughly 50% intensity...which is still plenty for this light. I'm estimating going from 90 PAR at the substrate to 40-50 PAR now. Being as my moss is tied to a driftwood 'tree', I'm getting more light than this in some places of the moss. 

As for keeping the moss clean, my Amanos are finally starting to pick at the moss, now that the algae has died back some. I hope they keep it up because I'd hate to have to add some detritus eating bacteria to the tank. 

The good news is that this method appears to be reasonable safe for my tank inhabitants. It's not something I want to do on a monthly basis, but it does work. I'll follow up in a few weeks with my progress.


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## cassb

Hi, I just wanted to let you know I tried this method on my 20 gal high tank. It was getting overrun with string/hair algae that was growing about 1-2" per day. Have Otos, Neons, Nerite snails and neocaridina shrimp. I removed the sponge filters, the Nerites and about 10 shrimp into some reserved tank water while dosing the H2O2. I used the full 4 Tbl per 10 gals dose of H2O2, so I added 7 Tbl to the tank all at once and stirred the water around for about 15 mins. Then 50% water change and dosed the Excel 10ml. After 4 days, the algae looks pretty dead - it's not growing at all and is lighter green/grey color. I've been doing 25% water changes daily to keep the decomposing stuff from polluting the water.

All fish and snails survived. I lost about 75% of the shrimp though. I had about 25 and I have about 7 or so left. Most died on day 2 and a couple per day have died since then. I don't think any more will die (I hope). I am thinking it was the high dose of H2O2 that did them in -- but then I had about half of them out of the tank while the high dose was in there. I put them back in after the 50% water change. Maybe the H2O2 had not reacted much with the organic matter? There was not much O2 bubbling out. Or maybe it was the high dose of Excel? 

Anyhow, just wanted to share my experience and recommend the 2 Tbl per 10 gals dose of H2O2.


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## Patriot

I was just reading up on this method yesterday. I have some BBA trying to establish territory. I'm afraid to try it because of my jungle vals. 

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## Empy3

Thought I'd throw in some possible additional thoughts based on my experience with trying this yesterday. 

I have a 10 gallon tank that is very overstocked (we inherited it from a friend and I haven't managed to rehome any of of the inhabitants yet - hoping to just upgrade everyone to a larger tank but can't afford it until later this summer). Tank was in very bad shape when we got it, but all the fish health/stress appears to have improved significantly since we first started working with it. That said, it's had a huge problem with algae from very early on, that has kind of ebbed and flowed and escalated to the point that I tried this method yesterday.

On Friday, I spent about an hour manually removing as much algae as I could. That said, there was still a LOT left because it's anchored extremely firmly onto both the plants and the aquarium walls. I also added a second HOB filter that I'd purchased to upgrade the one we inherited with the tank - the one that originally came with the tank was rated for 5-10 gallon tanks, and the new one was rated 10-20. I let both filters run overnight in the tank to help with both the water circulation and removing whatever debris they could from the water.

Yesterday I took out all the inhabitants I could find and put them in other containers with tank water while I did the H2O2 treatment. That said, I was unable to locate two of our Ottos because the tank was so murky and overgrown, so they stayed in the tank for the duration of the treatment. I pulled the coarse filter and put it in the largest temporary fish container I had, and just pitched the floss because it was so gross from all the removal the day before. I estimated that I had about 7 gallons of water left in the tank at that point, so I dosed 1.5 tbsp of H2O2 and started a timer. In addition to both filters, I used a mason jar to continually pour water into all parts of the tank during the 15 minutes. After that, I emptied about 50% of the remaining water, then refilled the tank and added the CO2 booster. I waited another 10 minutes and added my fish back in.

Fish all did fine initially. We kept an eye on them throughout the day, and about 8 hours after we did the change, started noticing stressed behavior. I did a water test and sure enough, the ammonia had started to spike. At this point I did two things that I really think should be a big part of this process - I checked the filter intake and the floss in both filters. They were completely clogged with dead algae, to the point that the intake on the smaller filter (which is the one that really needed to be functioning since it was the only filter with established nitrifying bacteria) was probably only operating at 1/3 of its total capacity. I pulled both intakes off of the filters and rinsed them out, then removed the filter floss from both filters and rinsed them out. I also did an additional 25% water change, and then just crossed my fingers since I forgot to purchase an ammonia neutralizer ahead of time and it was almost midnight at that point.

Those steps appear to have fixed the ammonia issue. All the inhabitants are alive and calmed down this morning, and all 4 ottos (which I was most worried about) survived. The moss growing on the snail shells is turning brown and falling off, in spite of the fact that they were not in the tank during the H2O2 treatment, and both the aquarium walls and the plants are significantly cleaner. I will probably have to do another treatment because my sword plants and anubs still have a lot of green fuzz on them, but I'm going to wait a few days and see if it starts turning brown and falling off first. 

So, just a summary - took most of my critters out during the treatment, but the two that were still in the tank were fine. The snails that were NOT in the tank still appear to have been affected (positively) by whatever small concentration of H2O2 was left when they went back in. And, most importantly, if you're dealing with a heavy algae overgrowth, clean out your filter intakes and your filter floss SEVERAL times over the immediate 12-24 hours after doing this treatment, so all that dead algae isn't sitting and rotting in your tank. Your fish will thank you for sparing them from as much of the ammonia spike as you can.


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## devisissy

Ok so this is so weird. When you type in one two punch my tank pulls up in the search engine. I'm not sure I'm proud of that.

I thought I'd give an update. So I took off the t5 again. I just use my finnex planted 24/7 it's on eight hours a day. I added a surface skimmer. I'm using co2 now as well. I cut my tap water with ro to bring my gh to 3 and kh to 5. I bought dry ferts and started EI dosing.

Then I added six otos. Since I have a puffer snails and shrimp were out. The otos made quick work of the green spot algae. Prying it up and eating it all in seven days.

I also capped the play sand with Carbi planted substrate. 

The bba began to dissappear, it almost changed. So now I'll get a tuft here or there so I just trim the leaves it grows on. I tried spot treating with h2o2 but it had no effect. Excel was working but melting my plants. So I've stopped using it.

I'm thinking the one two punch helped but it came down to the right parameters, light, and fertilizers with the help of the fish to really make a difference.



















































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## rebelrebel

How many millilitres is the measurement that you refer to as 4 tbsp? Google tells me that's 60millilitres? Thanks muchly.


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## Darkblade48

rebelrebel said:


> How many millilitres is the measurement that you refer to as 4 tbsp? Google tells me that's 60millilitres? Thanks muchly.


Yes, that is correct. 4 tablespoons is roughly 60 millilitres.


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## Kevlar

Just finished doing my tank... Using 12 tbsp of h2o2. All fish all accounted for... Shrimp are missing, but that's normal. Crayfish is missing too.. still normal.

I see little bubbles all over the tank... Which tells me great, it's working. Downside, there are no little bubbles attached to my BBA. Uh...what?!?

Maybe it's not BBA? Maybe I'm not being patient enough. Maybe i just need to replace the plants...

Edit... Both yoyo loaches paid the price as well as an Otto cat. Only one, the others are just fine.


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## shnookybub

I have a holding tank for plant trimmings and no other living things. If I did the full strength 4 Tbsp per 10 gallons, how long should I leave it in the water before doing the water change?


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## ashesarise

I did it on my 20g long tank with great success. My tenacious thread algae melted away and my diatoms disappeared. 

All my fauna are fine including my amanos. I did however move ALL my fauna into a separate container for an hour and didn't put them back in until after the massive water change. I honestly have no idea why this doesn't seem to be the norm seeing that it stresses the fish, and really isn't much effort to ensure your fish don't get stressed. I also did a 75% water change as well to be safe. 

A side effect was that all the needles on my hornworts came off. It made quite a big mess, but I was eventually able to net them all out. I just pulled out the hornwort anyway since I've started to view it as more of a weed anyways.

2 day update: My monte carlo, and anachris took a huuuuge blow. I hope they recover. They are turning blueish/grey and are almost transparent and getting little holes in them.


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## Frieza

I love this
Finally got a hope on algae issues
Tried all algae eaters, amanoes, siamesi, ottos, sustained co2 n etc etc
Atlast this worked like a charm
Thanks


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## plurmaster

first of all thank DarkCobra for this post and this method works!!! I had a Green hair algae outbreak on two of my tank. this is what I did per this thread

1. remove all the fish, snails and shrimps
2. remove all bio filter in the canisters
3. did a 50% water change
4. dose 4 tbsp of peroxide in my 30 gal tank and 3 tbsp in my 15 gal tank
5. added 2 pumps in my 30 gal and 1 pump in my 15 gal
6. let it run for 45mins
7. 50% water change
8. added excel per bottle descript but added extra 1 full bottle cap
9. let the pump keep the circulation going for 1 hr
10. added fish, snails and shrimp back into the tank

next day I see some cloudiness so I added some seachem prime just incase ammonia outbreak. did this for 3 days. no fish, shrimps or snails die and the green hair algae are 90% gone after 4 days. I can see some still left here and there so I put in black mollies to finish them off!

Now I just need to create balance in my tank to prevent from happening again!


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## Chungbohts

Just gonna ask this cuz theirs is too many posts to read. I have a 5 gal with green fuzz algae all over it. I have dwarf sag, crypt parva, micranthemum micranthemoides, ludwigia repens, java fern, anubias nana petite, and buce. Will this method melt any of these plants?


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## diverjoe

@Chungbohts. I didn’t see anything that would present a problem. Yes this is a long set of posts but there is a lot of good stories of success and almost no problems <1%. I would definately encourage you to read the posts as it really goes faster than you would think. It will give you confidence in that you are following the process correctly. There are a number of things that are really important like the timing and the extra circulation. Good luck!


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## vvDO

Chungbohts said:


> Just gonna ask this cuz theirs is too many posts to read. I have a 5 gal with green fuzz algae all over it. I have dwarf sag, crypt parva, micranthemum micranthemoides, ludwigia repens, java fern, anubias nana petite, and buce. Will this method melt any of these plants?




It should help without hurting your plants, just make sure you find out what caused the algae or it will come right back.


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## Dfeagley6

Tried this 2 hours ago at 25% strength! Followed the rules to the T, because I have a discus community tank and I was really nervous. Saw a lot of stress so I changed 70% of my water. So far the death toll is 2 guppies, 2 cardinal Tetras, 1 Chinese algae eater, 1 Harlequin rasbora, and one of my discus looks really bad! Why is this happening!? I use RO water so to make more water to change is a slow process, but I will be staying up to change more water. What else can I do??


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## diverjoe

*The &quot;One-Two Punch&quot; Whole Tank Algae Treatment*

Really sorry to hear about your losses!!!! 

I literally just did mine last night for the 4th time in 3 yrs. no losses ever and it was at 4tbs/10g of water. Let’s go over this in detail...


How long did you leave it in?
What do you mean by 25%
How big is your tank?
Much much h2o2 did you use?
What strength was the h2o2?
Did you change the water with straight ro water or was it re-mineralized?


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## Dfeagley6

-I started the timer for 15 minutes when I began adding h2o2
-my tank is 55 gallons. I added only 480mL of h2o2, or less than a table spoon per gallon.
-45mL of Excell was added slowly at the end of refilling water change. 
-3% h2o2
-re mineralized RO water. Kh=2.5, Gh=7


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## diverjoe

Two things 
1. H2o2 is max of 4 TVs per “10” gal not 1 gallon
2. Excel is 10ml max per 20gal

I just dosed 350 ml of h202 in a 75 and 30 ml of excel

Everything else looks exactly right.


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## Dfeagley6

Somebody should make a dosing chart for the people who are bad at math, like myself. I'm surprised any fish lived


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## diverjoe

I was thinking the same thing. What can we do to prevent this from happening again. I know you aren’t the first


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## Dfeagley6

First off, thank you very much for responding. At least I know where I went wrong. Hopefully, one of the members who is good at making graphs will see this and create something with 

Tank gallons/mL h2o2/Excell or metricide


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## baburelli

I have used this procedure to get rid of the BBA in my 12G fluvial Edge at least 5 times over the past 3 years without loss of life including Nerite snails, Otos, Cordys, Neon Tetras and a big colony of RCA's + babies. I used the full strength of 4 tbsp per 10G which I thought would be about right for my tank. I followed all instructions to the T with total success. Thanks for the great tip, Dark Cobra!


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## AguaScape

Dfeagley6 said:


> Somebody should make a dosing chart for the people who are bad at math, like myself. I'm surprised any fish lived


I am just glad that you did not lose any Discus. That would be heartbreaking to lose such beautiful, personable, and expensive fish due to an (easy to make) mistake. Not to say that any fish life is greater or lesser than any other. But I think you know what I mean.


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## Colin_Maybe

OK, just tried this for the first time on my 125L Juwel which was plagued with BBA (I'd had all other algae I think before this but got them under control). I had taken some plants out and dipped them for 5 minutes in a dish of 3% H2O2 which worked great without killing any plants but it's started to come back on my Bacopa.

I did do a silly thing initially as I had 2 bottles of H2O2 and had been using just 1, putting it back in the bottle and reusing but I thought I'd probably used that one up?

So I did:

1. took out half a bucket of tank water and put all of the filter medium in it.
2. took off the output nozzle on the 600 Juwel filter pump, I also have a Koralia Nano 1600 in there normally. (all plants swaying)
3. added 70mL of bottle 1 of H2O2 (used up maybe), waited 15 minutes
4. belatedly had a thought that the first bottle was useless so added 70mL of new bottle 2 of H2O2 and waited 15 minutes
5. did a quick 60% water change using API Safe Start+
6. put the filter medium back
7. added 3mL of TNC Carbon

My fish list is GBR, Platy's, Krib, BN Pleco, Adolfi Cory's, Neon Tetra's, Oto's, a couple of Ghost Shrimp and a couple of Nerite's (1 of which headed for out of the water when I added the H2O2)

My plant list is Amazon Sword, Cryptocoryne Balansae, Java Ferns, Java Moss, Bacopa, Bucephalandra sp. 'Red'

Now it's a case of wait and see.

Edit: Arrgghh... just found out that a USA tbsp is less than an imperial tbsp (why???), 4 US tbsp is approx. 60mL and I used 4 UK tbsp's or 70mL.


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## Colin_Maybe

Just checked my levels after 24 hours and they're spot on at 0, 0, 5 so I've not killed anything and as far as I can see everything's still kicking. I've seen the big Ghost Shrimp at least and 3 of the 4 Oto's (very secretive in my tank). That said I can't see any difference in the algae yet, dipping them directly obviously gave instant results so perhaps I'm being a little impatient.


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## TwilightZone

*My attempt*

Hello,

Tried this method after a long battle with Staghorn algae in my 320L ( ~80G )
Didn't payed too much attention to the red text , maybe i should have... so used the 4tbsp dose/10G.
Tank heavily planted ( Cuba , hygro , etc. )
Pop : 19 serpae tetra , 2 maronii , 5 young angelfish, 2 otos , 1 gastromyzon , 2 sidthimunki

Did as follows : 

stopped filter , removed some water and put the media in that bucket
restarted filter ( 2000L/h) and added the H2O2 ( 350ml as tbsp in EU smaller than US lol )
used my full filters evacs to flush all over the aquarium
did a few spot treatments on my Cuba as it was really infested ( used a seringue )
after 30 mins started a 50% water change ( used some osmo water as i needed to lower the PH )
then put back the filter media and restarted the filter

After 45 mins : no problems
After 2h : 1 serpae tetra dead ( i noticed the poor fellow swallowed an oxygen bubble earlier and was a bit erratic )
After 4h : no further problems , my Cuba is still bubbling here and there. A few snails died ( 2 Planorbes and 2 Melanoid , possibly because of the spot treatment )

I hope no further casualties in the hours / days to follow , will keep you posted. For now all fish look normal. Only 1 sidhimunki did not show up until now ( might be normal , his species can hide for 3-4 days or more ) , the 2 otos are ok , same for the gastromyzon that i feared most it could die.


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## TwilightZone

*Episode 2*

Ok, back with more details.

After 2 days :

1 gastromyzon unfortunately dead making 2 fish dead for now in total ( 1 callistus and 1 gastromyzon )
1 maronii suffering from dropsy, i hope he survives , under treatment with antibiotics.
More snails passed out , so that makes roughly 7-8 snails dead in total

Rest of fish , including the 2 otos are fine for now.

Recurrent NO2 issues despite the fact my filter media was out during the treatment , and that i have a HUGE filter volume filled with best media ( Neo Pro ) , so i had to do 30-40% water replacement / day in order to keep NO2 under 0.1

Now for the good news , finally my staghorn infestation is dead.

For all , i honestly advise you take out all your living stock out of the tank before applying this treatment.


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## vvDO

TwilightZone said:


> Ok, back with more details.
> 
> After 2 days :
> 
> 1 gastromyzon unfortunately dead making 2 fish dead for now in total ( 1 callistus and 1 gastromyzon )
> 1 maronii suffering from dropsy, i hope he survives , under treatment with antibiotics.
> More snails passed out , so that makes roughly 7-8 snails dead in total
> 
> Rest of fish , including the 2 otos are fine for now.
> 
> Recurrent NO2 issues despite the fact my filter media was out during the treatment , and that i have a HUGE filter volume filled with best media ( Neo Pro ) , so i had to do 30-40% water replacement / day in order to keep NO2 under 0.1
> 
> Now for the good news , finally my staghorn infestation is dead.
> 
> For all , i honestly advise you take out all your living stock out of the tank before applying this treatment.




Sorry for your losses... Your H2O2 dose should have been 250 mL or less. Tank volume about 85 US gallons, minus hardscape so you are more likely closer to 75 gallons. Divide by 10= 7.5 x 30 mL= 225 mL.


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## TwilightZone

*Yep*

As previously said , it's my bad , as scrolling down to understand the method i somehow did not take into account the lines in red at the top and did the 4 tbsp instead of 2.

That being said , even with 2 tbsp snails and all scaleless fish would be harmed.

My maronii died last night , not sure how to link his dropy to the event , but it appeared right after the H2O2.


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## Colin_Maybe

BBA looks like it's creeping back for me, I did change my routine as you have to address the source of the problem as well as this one-two knock out routine. I'd made a noob mistake as I was using the dry salt method but didn't realise that the doses were for an injected CO2 system and was using 20ml a day, I've reduced this to 5ml with 3ml of TNC carbon per day which has (obviously) helped a great deal. However I've got small fringes of BBA on my Amazon Sword and the Cryptocoryne come back.

So round 2:-

1. took out a bucket of tank water and put all of the filter medium in it and topped back up.
2. took off the output nozzle on the 600 Juwel filter pump, I also have a Koralia Nano 1600 in there normally. (all plants swaying)
3. added 130mL of H2O2 (all I had left  ), waited 20 minutes
4. did a 50% water change using API Safe Start+
6. put the filter medium back
7. added 4mL of TNC Carbon (double recommended dose)

My fish list is GBR, Platy's, Krib, BN Pleco, Adolfi Cory's, Neon Tetra's, Oto's, a couple of Ghost Shrimp and a couple of Nerite's.

My plant list is Amazon Sword, Cryptocoryne Balansae, Java Ferns, Java Moss, Bacopa, Bucephalandra sp. 'Red'

Now it's a case of wait and see (again).




For the mathematically challenged  in Europe and using litres, for the new lower limit (2 US tbsp. per 10 US Gallon) just multiply your displaced water quantity in litres (not the tank size) by 0.8 which will give you the correct amount in ml, for the original suggestion (4 US tbsp. per 10 US Gallon) use 1.6

So for @TwilightZones example further up it would be 280 (litres of water approx) x 0.8 = 225ml of H2O2 (or 450ml at the original dosage levels)

So my 130ml I've used is towards the high end but still within parameters (1.3).


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## Colin_Maybe

Good news on mine as there's been no downside re. losses and the BBA fringing the edges of some Amazon Sword leaves turned red around 3 or 4 days after treatment. I've been dosing 3ml of TNC Carbon daily since which presumably helped but it's looking good so far. I've ordered some more H2O2 as I'm confident now that it works and if needed I can get an early start on knocking it back.

Cheers @DarkCobra


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## Ddrizzle

I inadvertently performed thid by dosing BBA directlky with a lot of peroxide two days in a row. It utterly wiped out the BBA (took a few weeks for it to turn red and then white, and then able to rub off), but it did kill a few shrimp and all of my snails in time (they slowly died over two weeks).

The problem is that it also killed weaker plants like java moss and some smaller stem plants. In this time I either had a potassium decifiency or the perxodie made it look like one, and I lost a lot of them. They'd grow... but like 10x slower than normal. This means that BBA had a chance to slowly creep back because plants weren't using nutrients as well. I've had to replant my stem plants and am hoping the BBA doesn't get too bad until my new plants can regrow.


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## Colin_Maybe

Ddrizzle said:


> I inadvertently performed thid by dosing BBA directlky with a lot of peroxide two days in a row. It utterly wiped out the BBA (took a few weeks for it to turn red and then white, and then able to rub off), but it did kill a few shrimp and all of my snails in time (they slowly died over two weeks).
> 
> The problem is that it also killed weaker plants like java moss and some smaller stem plants. In this time I either had a potassium decifiency or the perxodie made it look like one, and I lost a lot of them. They'd grow... but like 10x slower than normal. This means that BBA had a chance to slowly creep back because plants weren't using nutrients as well. I've had to replant my stem plants and am hoping the BBA doesn't get too bad until my new plants can regrow.


Yikes, that's definitely not the way to go about it.

How much H2O2 did you use and how big is your tank? Did you remove your biomedia beforehand and do a 50% water change after 15 minutes or so?


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## Ddrizzle

Colin_Maybe said:


> Yikes, that's definitely not the way to go about it.
> 
> How much H2O2 did you use and how big is your tank? Did you remove your biomedia beforehand and do a 50% water change after 15 minutes or so?



Had to be around 8-10 doses of 5ml on each day in a 22 gallon. I did water change after each time and it worked wonders on the bba, but I'm sure if I followed this method there is a balance of algae killing without the plants or shrimp die off. I didn't remove media and I don't remember that being a problem judging by nitrate and ammonia only.


The bba had a chance to come back but it was stunted greatly until I did a major trim of the stunted plants and added new plants. Now the bba is growing back and I'm stuck dosing peroxide on it until the baby plants can catch back up.

The stunted plants were kind of amazing to see. Growth was 10x slower ever after a trim near the base of them. I gave them a solid month and a half but these stem plants never quite recovered hence the replant.


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## Ryan Mosby

If you take the livestock out to do this method, how long do you wait after dosing Excel to put them back in?


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## Colin_Maybe

Colin_Maybe said:


> Good news on mine as there's been no downside re. losses and the BBA fringing the edges of some Amazon Sword leaves turned red around 3 or 4 days after treatment. I've been dosing 3ml of TNC Carbon daily since which presumably helped but it's looking good so far. I've ordered some more H2O2 as I'm confident now that it works and if needed I can get an early start on knocking it back.
> 
> Cheers @DarkCobra


Not so good news I'm afraid.

The BBA came back (on everything it seemed) so I tried again (overly) emboldened by my previous attempts. I used a full bottle (200ml) in my 125L which is at the original full dose but ignored the displaced water rule, I also left it for a bit longer (20 minutes or so). This was enough to kill both of my Nerite snails and 1 of my Oto's. My 12 month old BN Plec is still struggling too being off his courgette and cucumber both (he's a guts normally), strangely the GBR and the Ghost shrimp seem unaffected.

It's not something I'd recommend myself anymore and would only treat the tank fishless. My fault entirely as I'm not attaching any blame to the OP.


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## TheLordOfTheFish

Does this method kill cladophila algae?


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## TheLordOfTheFish

TheLordOfTheFish said:


> Does this method kill cladophila algae?



and it does, absolutely eradicated it, including my 7 black panda loaches;( Interestingly, all my AAA grade finicky caradina shrimp survived without even being bothered by it. The moment I put Excel in, the loaches died within minutes. Good to know and a warning if you have panda loaches, they are rare and pretty expensive.


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## Discusluv

Looks like this method to eradicate BBA has some issues if you have sensitive shrimp/fish.
Man, Id especially be so upset to lose fish in the process of attempting to get rid of the BBA with this treatment and, then, have it come back---
Not worth the risk.


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## Ryan Mosby

Discusluv said:


> Looks like this method to eradicate BBA has some issues if you have sensitive shrimp/fish.
> Man, Id especially be so upset to lose fish in the process of attempting to get rid of the BBA with this treatment and, then, have it come back---
> Not worth the risk.


 @Discusluv I think it should only be used in extreme and desperate cases, but I really wouldn't advise leaving any livestock in the tank while doing the One-Two Punch.

I had to resort to this method just once; I had a 5 gallon tank that had suddenly become blanketed in algae. It had taken over everywhere, rather quickly. I knew if I tried my best to remove it, I still wouldn't be able to get at half of it, and it would just keep spreading. I also knew I had to figure out the source causing the problem, but at the same time I needed to refresh the tank to give the plants a chance to photosynthesize with clean leaves, without breaking the tank down entirely. I took out the fish and snail, went through the steps, and then took some time before I put the livestock back in again, and luckily had no deaths. I moved the fish tank to a darker location and reduced the photo period from 7 hours to 6. I did start getting some algae after that but very little, and very manageable. Been happy with my tank ever since.


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## Epulz

Tried this today as a final resort for BBA, a bit less than 2tbsp/10g of peroxide. Occupants: RCS, otos, danios, platies, bladder snails, assassin snails. I removed assassin snails and marimo moss balls prior to treatment. Eheim 250 external filter switched off, bubbler and internal filter stingray pump added.

Peroxide added to stingray pump outflow and moved around constantly. Started to notice some BBA becoming pale around 8 minute mark and one sick platy death at 12 minute mark. Terminated at 15 minute mark. Rest of inhabitants only appear slightly distressed mid water change (slow change because of small hose) but no further death and once 60% water change complete all inhabitants back to normal behaviour. Excel added 10 mins after Eheim filter restarted.

Looks like it has started to work already but we shall see in a few days. Hopefully it works well to clear BBA spots on plants and hardscape which has been static for a few weeks.


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## lazylife91

Hi- looking for some advise. For background, I started a planted tank a month ago and for the last ~2 weeks I had hair algae. It reached a point where it covered the stems/leaves of some of the plants. I added amano shrimps but unfortunately my betta ate all. Now I am afraid to add any other algae eaters.

So I tried one two punch method today.
Tank- 14G
Light and filter was on. Moved betta to a temp tank. Nerite stayed in the tank.

I added 60ML 3% H2O2 (bought a new bottle this morning).
After 15 minutes, I performed a ~70% water change.
Added 7ML Seachem Excel
Added filter media and fish back. 

I see the hair algae is still there after several hours and I don't see any difference. I am trying to understand if did anything wrong or will the algae take a longer time to go away. Thanks in advance.


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## EmotionalFescue

It takes about three days


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## lazylife91

EmotionalFescue said:


> It takes about three days


Thank you.


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## Bent17

Is this 100% successful on Staghorn please?


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## fplata

Bent17 said:


> Is this 100% successful on Staghorn please?


Not sure if 100% but close to it


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## Bent17

Will be trying it out today...


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## Bent17

So I did the procedure, most of is turned red but I still have places which are not dead.. whats the best way forward?


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## Bent17

Should I go for a blackout?


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## EmotionalFescue

Bent17 said:


> Should I go for a blackout?


It takes three days. You just need to wait.

This treatment works in that it will clear out your algae, but it's just going to give you a temporary reprieve if your fundamentals aren't good.

So, in my experience, this works best as a way to clear algae out after you have addressed the underlying cause.


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## Bent17

I belive its just a matter of the tank needing to settle. I have good light, co2, circulation and APT complete fertilizer.. so not sure what could be causing my staghorn apart from it not being balanced


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## Bent17

Should a water change be done 3days after todays procedure? Just did a 50%


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## sudhirr

Super informative thread. 


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## Bent17

I can only find 6% peroxide. Can I use that and divide the dosage by half?


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## Bent17

Anyone can help on this? Can I use 6% instead?


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## Phil Edwards

Yes, you can.


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## Santos Prod.

lazylife91 said:


> Hi- looking for some advise. For background, I started a planted tank a month ago and for the last ~2 weeks I had hair algae. It reached a point where it covered the stems/leaves of some of the plants. I added amano shrimps but unfortunately my betta ate all. Now I am afraid to add any other algae eaters.
> 
> So I tried one two punch method today.
> Tank- 14G
> Light and filter was on. Moved betta to a temp tank. Nerite stayed in the tank.
> 
> I added 60ML 3% H2O2 (bought a new bottle this morning).
> After 15 minutes, I performed a ~70% water change.
> Added 7ML Seachem Excel
> Added filter media and fish back.
> 
> I see the hair algae is still there after several hours and I don't see any difference. I am trying to understand if did anything wrong or will the algae take a longer time to go away. Thanks in advance.


How do you know how much Seachem Excel to utilize? OP says 5ml / 10 gal , but the bottle says 5ml/60 gallons 
i have a 37 sized gallon with only about 34 gallons inside i want to try this just not sure on doses


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## Jagathawise

Santos Prod. said:


> How do you know how much Seachem Excel to utilize? OP says 5ml / 10 gal , but the bottle says 5ml/60 gallons
> i have a 37 sized gallon with only about 34 gallons inside i want to try this just not sure on doses


The OP mentioned an "attack dose" as listed by seachem at one point.


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## Jagathawise

I would like to try this method, but I have a few reservations. I have a good amount of plants now, probably too many floating plants, lol. 

I think I'm on the way to balancing but think that removing existing algae would help my plants a bunch. I have a ton of Vals so the excel concerns me. 
And I have Otos who don't eat anything but alage. What happens if I nuke the algae and the Otos have nothing to eat. They won't touch reapshy either. 

Maybe I'll try this in my quarantine tank first.


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