# 15 Gallon- High Light



## PumaPardus (Mar 7, 2015)

Good day, all!

I've been a long time lurker here (like, years), and have scoured much of the information here, but have finally felt the need to post and get some individualized assistance. I am battling killer algae problems in my 15 gallon tank, and am really hoping to find an alternative to having to get reduce/change my lights because they're too powerful. 

I was feeling real good, because I'm quite experienced with tanks (nearly 10+years), and lower-tech planted tanks, and I finally wanted to take the time to do a high tech tank with pressurized CO2. I took months to research the light, save for it, acquire the plants gradually, and built the tank slowly. Now, I'm drowning in either hair or fuzz algae, and it's breaking my heart.

Specs: Tank: 15 gallon (just one betta currently residing. Plans for more fish when algae and water parameter issues are under control)
30% water change every week (including scrubbing the algae like crazy- it all falls apart, floats around the tank, catches on everything, and regrows within 3 days. It is not easy to roll up in a toothbrush like hair algae- this is slippery and just wisps around the tank.)
1/4 tsp Equilibrium, as well as variable doses of Acid and Alkaline Buffer (my tap water has 0gH, 0kH, and 6.4pH, so I'm fussing with that. Working to get a system figured out. Only been testing and dosing and tweaking this for 3 weeks.)
GH: 4
KH: 3-4
pH: 6.6-7.0
CO2: Ista Waterplant pressurized system, 2-3 bubbles/second (1 hour before lights come on, until 1 hour before lights go off). I added the CO2 two weeks ago, hoping the increased carbon would affect the algae and help the tank clear up. The plants seem to be doing well- there's even quite a bit of new growth since the CO2 began working it's magic. However, the algae hasn't appeared to have slowed down. Though, it's not speeding up either...)

1 capful of Flourish Comprehensive every other day.

Lighting: Finnex Ray 2- 8 hours a day

I fear that this may be far too much light for this tank. I never dreamed that I'd experience too much light- more often, the battle is barely enough light. I'm disgruntled about, but ok with reducing the photoperiod further, if need be.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/107361122/20150306_205349.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/107361122/20150306_205355.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/107361122/20150306_205339.jpg
(This last image is the view through the front of my tank glass. Under the hopeful impression that this might be Green Dust Algae, I'm attempting to let it reach the end of it's assumed lifespan, and go away. It's very thick, and looks quite glossy "blowing" in the current. :icon_sad

I am also interested in hearing your opinions if, based on my kH and pH, the CO2 level is appropriate. I do see pearling in the tank after several hours of CO2 (unfortunately, the algae does most of the pearling. The plants DO do it from time to time, though).

I thank you in advance for your time! Please, feel free to ask for more additional information about the tank or water parameters if you need it. It's a wonderful service you offer here, and you have an astounding knowledge base I'm privileged to be able to tap into.


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## theericafish (Apr 27, 2012)

I'd say diatoms and hair algae. Couple ottos could do you some good and maybe a flag fish to eat the hair algae(might not get along with the betta though). If the tank is fairly new diatoms are common.

API algaefix could also be an easy solution(to hair algae) as long as you don't have any inverts in the tank.

Possibly consider moving the wood a bit or raising the light so there is not such a concentrated beam on the top of the wood. Adding floating plants will also lessen the lights intensity. Duckweed salvinia or frogbit are some pretty common options. Otherwise the hair algae is likely to come back.

Using Excel along with your ferts & co2 will also have positive effects.


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## Ben125 (Dec 16, 2014)

I had a RAY2. It was just way too much light. Not saying you can't make it work. However thats what it will be. Work. Expensive dosing, heavy fish killing levels of CO2 that require constant attention, and pruning constantly to keep zero doc in the tank. Any screwups or lapses and you will have an algae outbreak so bad you will want to tear down your tank.

I went back to T5s and it solved all my algae problems.


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## PumaPardus (Mar 7, 2015)

Well, poop. That's super frustrating to hear. I'm certainly willing to entertain other opinions, though. I'm still a bit boggled that such a light sized for smaller tanks would put out so much light as to be essentially useless in smaller tanks.

I'm currently planning to reduce the time the light is on further (about 6-7 hours, or less, when I'm home in the evening), and see how that might help me manage my algae. I notice that the plants still pearl even if the CO2 is off for a day or so, so there's potentially still a lot of CO2 dissolved in the water in the following days.

Would cramming in more plants to use CO2 and nutrients more efficiently be helpful in cutting down what the algae has to use for itself, and begin to stabilize the tank?

Since the Finnex Ray 2 seems too powerful, I tried a Marineland Double Bright LED strip that originally came with the tank- and it's just way too dark in there. According to http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=160396, the only other light fixtures perfectly suited for freshwater planted aquariums are upwards of $200! I loved the Finnex, since it was super-nice LEDS at only $75. :/ I would love to get a light on this tank that won't break the bank.


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## theericafish (Apr 27, 2012)

I'm back again.. I have a ray 2 over my 20L which is also 12 inch height. I raised mine around 4 inches because #1 its very high light and #2the spread looked better. Ben has some good points but ill add some details.

pps pro fert dosing package will cost you around 30$ +shipping and has lasted me 2 years and counting on my high tech 20L. Maybe cheaper if you order from someone on the forums.

Co2 can be expensive but depending on the tank size it can last a long time. The regulator can cost around 100$(Milwaukee regulators) for a basic one, or upwards of 200 for medical grade fancy ones(which I do recommend because they will last a lot longer and dual stage regulators are safer to some extent). Lots of people are fine with using basic regulators. The problem is some have crappy needle valves which make it hard to regulate flow and some people speak of "end of the tank dump" when the liquid co2 turns to gas your tank basically becomes a gas chamber. You can refill your tank early to avoid that issue I think, some people don't even worry about it. Sometimes you can find a good deal on craigslist things to look out for are current hydro date(if I remember correctly) and tank size, dual stage or single stage etc. You want one with a solenoid so it can be on a timer. I have a 10# tank and after about 2 years it still has 4lbs of co2 in it. Co2 refill cost about 20$ in my area. Do some research before buying of course. Then you need a way to diffuse the co2. Either a diffuser or atomizer or other methods like the rex griggs contraption.

With the ray 2 so close to the substrate pressurized co2 and ferts would defiantly be a good idea. There are other options though and you could try dimming the light using windscreen or raising it higher off the tank by any method, adding floating plants etc. Its all about finding the balance between the lighting ferts and co2 and you want your co2 to be constant that's why pressurized co2 is highly recommended. I have found the fugeray to be pretty strong on low tanks too.

Anywho, I'd say lessen the lighting intensity, get the co2 dialed in(possibly invest in a larger setup), get some ferts and a cleanup crew. More plants are always better. Don't be discouraged. Try to find people with similar tanks on tank journals and see what setups they are using for high tech and attempt to emulate it.


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## PumaPardus (Mar 7, 2015)

I must say, the last post is considerably more encouraging. 

There is the option of raising the light up slightly (I had to rig it up into the hood, since the little feet wouldn't hold it securely on the rim of the tank, but I can unscrew it and re-attach it a few inches higher). I also have some window screening hanging around, and other sources state that a layer of that will reduce intensity by up to 30%. Floating plants are also a very good possibility- it's far better to remove a few pieces of rapidly-growing water lettuce regularly than get into the tank 3x a week and completely destroy it removing algae. 

I did have otos- one died of a hemorrhage of some kind early on, and the other appeared to have opted to starve himself to death. He had been doing a remarkable job keeping the tank glass cleaner, but never touched the wood, and gradually stopped altogether. I haven't seen him in about a week now, so I'm betting he either succumbed to hunger, or my CO2 was way high. I had a CO2 level checker (http://aqstyle.why3s.cc/GOAQUA/Image/ISTA_354azaz.jpg), but it soon proved to be worthless, since the liquid always drains out into tank within 3 hours. I've tried it several times, and have given up. But I do know that I need a new one to properly run the tank, and I am researching one that won't leak. The few reads I did manage to get from the liquid checker was that my CO2 was too high, but it was only running at 1 bubble per second! I need to fine-tune a little bit there.

Is there a drop checker that you recommend that gives a good, accurate read, and won't seep the liquid into the tank?

You mention constant CO2- When I first hooked up the system, I researched up and down, including this forum, and came to the consensus that CO2 should be started an hour before the tank lights came on, and turned off an hour before they went off for maximum efficiency. I don't have a solenoid on my setup, so I am doing this by hand every afternoon and evening when I'm around the house. When I work, there's no CO2 that day. But should I leave it on 24/7? I feel like that takes the tank a little more out of my control, since I'm wary of leaving it on when the lights are off, and the plants aren't able to use the gas, and nowadays, the lights are off for 16 hours a day. Also, I'm having slight difficulties getting a handle on my pH and kH in the tank, and leaving the CO2 on full time would certainly complicate those issues.

My next considerations in this tank might be a bristlenose pleco or two- they ship into my fish store super small, never get frighteningly huge, and are reputed to have wonderfully voracious appetites. Also, window screen, moving the light a bit higher, and more plants. A final resort would be a full tank "nuke" with H2O2 and Excel.


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## Ben125 (Dec 16, 2014)

PumaPardus said:


> Since the Finnex Ray 2 seems too powerful, I tried a Marineland Double Bright LED strip that originally came with the tank- and it's just way too dark in there. According to http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=160396, the only other light fixtures perfectly suited for freshwater planted aquariums are upwards of $200! I loved the Finnex, since it was super-nice LEDS at only $75. :/ I would love to get a light on this tank that won't break the bank.


I've used a double bright with alot of success. Theres a planted tank LFS here in town that uses nothing but double brights on all their grow out tanks. That light is fine give it a chance. Maybe your eyes need to adjust back to normal after that Ray2. 

Also take this forum with a grain of salt. Companies pretend to be users who try to sell you on certain products. People will say buy this 1000000W LED for $500 o yeh then buy the dimmer for another $500 because 1000000 LED is so bright you can see it from the moon. Light is so overrated. Spend your money elsewhere.


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## natebuchholz (Sep 28, 2013)

Ben125 said:


> I've used a double bright with alot of success. Theres a planted tank LFS here in town that uses nothing but double brights on all their grow out tanks. That light is fine give it a chance. Maybe your eyes need to adjust back to normal after that Ray2.
> 
> Also take this forum with a grain of salt. Companies pretend to be users who try to sell you on certain products. People will say buy this 1000000W LED for $500 o yeh then buy the dimmer for another $500 because 1000000 LED is so bright you can see it from the moon. Light is so overrated. Spend your money elsewhere.


You are entitled to your opinion but, Im afraid you need to check your facts on this one. This forum is not a tool to get people to buy equipment they do not need. There are different ways to enjoy this hobby and many of them require little to no investment to enjoy. This forum is a tool to help exchange ideas about the hobby and share a mutual interest. Im sorry if you have ever felt that anyone on this forum has ever had any intentions other than to help and I wish you would not discredit the majority of the users based on one bad experience.

All the best,


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## PumaPardus (Mar 7, 2015)

I'm thankful for all the help so far! I made a follow-up post Sunday morning, but was told that it would be held until a Moderator approved it? When should that take place?


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## gog (Oct 10, 2014)

I think raising the light rather than shortening the photoperiod is a good idea. 

Adding liquid Co2 in the form of Excel or Metricide will probably help as well. Yes you can use both liquid and gas Co2 together. They'll help clear it up and I suspect that raising the light will keep it from coming back.


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## tamsin (Jan 12, 2011)

Yep, there are other options than shortening the photo period - after all you want to be able to see in tank as much as possible  

Raising the light, adding floating plants or poping something semi-translucent over the top eg adding frosting to your cover pane would all cut down the amount of light that reached the inside of the tank.


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## Krispyplants (Apr 15, 2014)

T5's :wink: still can keep it high tech and get good growth. A duel should do it and if not just remove one bulb.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

If you have a 24 inch long Finnex Ray2 sitting 14 inches from the substrate you should be getting about 60 PAR light intensity, which is either high, or high medium lighting. In either case you need to use CO2 to be successful with that much light, and you also have to manage the CO2 so as to keep the same ppm of CO2 in the water during every photoperiod. And, you need to do a great job keeping the tank, the water, and the equipment clean. You should also make sure your tank water is well oxygenated, to help the fish tolerate the high CO2 concentration that is needed.

Shortening the photoperiod will not substitute for any of that.

You could use a Finnex Planted Plus, which would give your tank better colors, and that would drop the light intensity enough that CO2 will be less critical. Or switch to a 24 inch Fugeray, and that will drop the intensity even more, and you can probably just use Excel successfully.


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

PumaPardus said:


> Good day, all!
> 
> I've been a long time lurker here (like, years), and have scoured much of the information here, but have finally felt the need to post and get some individualized assistance. I am battling killer algae problems in my 15 gallon tank, and am really hoping to find an alternative to having to get reduce/change my lights because they're too powerful.
> 
> ...


 In my humble opinion, your light intensity need's to be reduced considerably.
You need full line of macro/micro nutrient's for the flourish comprehensive you are now using is largely micro nutrient's and water by weight.(very little macro's)
Geenleaf aquariums.com or aquariumfertilzer .com can hook you up with the dry fertilzer's which you can spoon in or mix with water.
The more light you use,the more CO2 and full nutrient delivery /consistency is needed.
Also might cease with the pH buffer's and or alkaline booster's.
Lot's of folks grow plants in very soft water to hard water.


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## PumaPardus (Mar 7, 2015)

Thank you all so much for your input! I see now that I have a lot of options I hadn't considered before! I'm planning to raise the light- I can only raise it an inch (it's got to be bolted into my hood), but I am also going to lay a layer of window screen below the light to diffuse the intensity. I've re-started dosing Excel (I had stopped when the CO2 began), and have kept dosing Flourish. Pond season is picking up where I live, so I should be able to find some water lettuce (removing a few pieces of water lettuce on a regular basis is much more appealing than the killer algae scraping I've been doing). I'm also planning to add more fast-growing stem plants. As well as an algae-eating crew.

Oh, and for the record I have an 18" Finnex Ray 2 on there, and according to this forum's post "LED Light Compendium" (the basis of my decision to purchase this light in the first place) cites the PAR values as 153 PAR @ 6", 72 PAR @ 12", 37 PAR @ 18". The tank is 17" tall. I run the CO2 about 2-3 bubbles per second for 8 hours, while the light is on, and from my testing and calculations, that keeps me about 35ppm CO2. I was concerned about aeration and oxygenation, so I added a small powerhead with a spraybar opposite the CO2 diffuser. 

This past week's worth of shortened photoperiod alone has appeared to slow the algae growth noticeably. With more tweakage and the other options I have to try, I feel more heartened that I can be largely successful with this tank!

I am still wondering where my post from Sunday morning went- I was told that it would be posted pending Moderator approval? How long does this process take? Will I be notified if it is or is not posted, and why?


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## theericafish (Apr 27, 2012)

I've never had a post requiring moderator approval, maybe someone else can chime in there.

Seems like its starting to work out though, battling algae is half the fun . I think I've been through just about everything except green water and staghorn. 

Remember that the algae on the wood(the part thats close to the waters surface) may be hard to get rid of cause the high par directly on it. perhaps try to block out more light on that area. I have a similar situation in my 10g tank with a fugeray about 1inch from the top of the driftwood. I just let the algae grow though heh.


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## ipkiss (Aug 9, 2011)

PumaPardus said:


> Thank you all so much for your input! I see now that I have a lot of options I hadn't considered before! I'm planning to raise the light- I can only raise it an inch (it's got to be bolted into my hood), but I am also going to lay a layer of window screen below the light to diffuse the intensity. I've re-started dosing Excel (I had stopped when the CO2 began), and have kept dosing Flourish. Pond season is picking up where I live, so I should be able to find some water lettuce (removing a few pieces of water lettuce on a regular basis is much more appealing than the killer algae scraping I've been doing). I'm also planning to add more fast-growing stem plants. As well as an algae-eating crew.
> 
> Oh, and for the record I have an 18" Finnex Ray 2 on there, and according to this forum's post "LED Light Compendium" (the basis of my decision to purchase this light in the first place) cites the PAR values as 153 PAR @ 6", 72 PAR @ 12", 37 PAR @ 18". The tank is 17" tall. I run the CO2 about 2-3 bubbles per second for 8 hours, while the light is on, and from my testing and calculations, that keeps me about 35ppm CO2. I was concerned about aeration and oxygenation, so I added a small powerhead with a spraybar opposite the CO2 diffuser.
> 
> ...


These are all good steps, but please don't forget about the macro fertilizers that roadmaster mentioned. Unless I missed it somewhere, you seem to be dosing flourish comprehensive only. It is anything but comprehensive! You seem to have done quite a bit of research in getting a good light and added co2, but you're critically missing a significant ingredient! Best of all, it's NOT costly! Dry macro fertilizers are quite cheap on this forum. I ignored it in the beginning because I felt that I needed to get a handle on things separately but in reality, you need to get a handle on three things (lights, co2, ferts) sort of simultaenously. Everything we tell you will in some way reflect that. See Darkblade's Primer to Planted Tanks if you haven't already read it. Pay attention to the nutrients section. At your level of lighting, you're really pushing what the plants can do, so you must feed them appropriately!

Also, stop worrying so much about the ph buffers. You WILL get ph fluctuations due to your co2 injection. No sense trying to buffer it back out. The more experienced hands on this forum will tell you that playing with ph with buffers will only upset your fish more.

When you've kind of gotten this algae thing figured out, you may also want to look into an alternate pressurized system other than your ista. I hear those cartridges can get pretty expensive.


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## PumaPardus (Mar 7, 2015)

I plan on sitting down and researching dry ferts shortly here. I'd only been taught to use the liquid ones, so it'll be a bit of a learning curve. (Addendum- I got distracted reading the article you posted, ipkiss- srsly some of those dry fert kits cost combined barely more than a bottle of Excel!? Sign me up!!)

So far, I've added a layer of window screen material across the top of the tank (dimmed it quite noticeably), and procured some small pieces of water lettuce. Fert research will follow, as well as raising the light this weekend (it's bolted into the hood, so it takes some wrestling to move it about).

As for the Ista, the set I have has a refillable CO2 tank, and I've already researched where to have it filled- even with it's "tricky threads".


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## ipkiss (Aug 9, 2011)

Yea, if you don't want to go too far, nilocG sells some packages right here on the forum. Otherwise, some of the sites that roadmaster mentioned are cool too. Dry is the definitely the way to go for being cheap. Mix your own with some bottles and you're set. You can either ask your seller, ask the forum, or play with the numbers on your own with this calculator to get a feel. OR some people just dump the dry ferts in directly, but I like mine diluted before it goes in so I don't have to worry about fish going at the specks.


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## PumaPardus (Mar 7, 2015)

That calculator is amazing! THIS is why I love this hobby- I didn't even know that dry ferts existed, and that there was so much learning and DIY to do with them, and that it was so easy! Adding pre-blended mixes from Seachem was fun, but this seems so much more in-depth, and I'll love having such an understanding of my tank and how the plants grow.


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