# "Broken Bridge" - 3gal picotope journal



## mrbelvedere

I like the idea, how about Rotala "mini" for the back?


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## fresh_lynny

Great layout!!!
I do like the idea of Rotala mini in the back.


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## Steven_Chong

Since you asked for my opinion Solstice, I'll try to give the best advice I can.

The right side is definitely more in keeping with a typical rock lay out. Based on the plant choices, it looks like you are doing something similar to an iwagumi. The purposeful slope also makes me think you might have been influenced by Filipe Oliviera (spelling?) who is a good aquascaper as well.

The left side, with its more sparsely layed out rocks is interestng. At a gut reaction level, I tended to prefer the consistency of the right side but I'm not quite sure where you are going with this so I can't really made a guess.

For more visual interest, I'd consider sloping the substrate front to back in addition to the already obvious middle sloe. Having more levels will help you create depth/visual complexity.

Hope that helps


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## eklikewhoa

i like it so far and i agree with *Steven_Chong*, adding the front to back slope would make it killer!


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## RoseHawke

Steven, I can tell you've had to do some art critiques .

I very definitely like the right side, I'm having trouble with the left for some reason. I believe it looks a bit too symmetrical perhaps? Something to do with the two smaller rocks on the very left and front center of that group. You might try playing around with those two positions a bit.

Looking forward to seeing it planted!


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## ianmoede

I'm gonna jump on the right looks good left looks bad bandwagon. Try to create a bit more variety in the angle that they are protruding from the soil. they're pretty much all up and to the right.


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## Solstice

Thank you all very much for your feedback.

mrbelvedere - Yes! Rotala mini will work well. I'm also considering doing something with cabomba that I haven't seen done yet, especially in a nano. We'll see how it pans out.

Steven - I love Filipe Oliveira's scapes, but this idea came from a footbridge we have here in San Diego. You can hike under it through a bamboo forest and I was looking up at it thinking "wouldn't this be prettier if all this was green?" (San Diego is pretty dried up and brown in the late summer), so I figured I'd make my own. Ha. And yes, the front to back slope does make for a much more dramatic effect. Thanks for that! roud:

RoseHawke and ianmoede, after reading your comments I couldn't have agreed with you more. I like the new layout much more. Thank you as well.

So here's attempt 2. I promise next week I'll bring my camera to work and get some better shots....


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## ianmoede

Much better! Plant away my friend. The sparkling gourami's are going to look great. Stocking list looks good, and i'd have to reccomend rotala. It's light yellow/green/red leaves look great in my opinion. If you wanna wait another week or two i'll have some trimmings of it for postage. Let me know.


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## Steven_Chong

Let me suggest 2 stem plants for small tanks:

Micropea minima
Crassula helmsi

These are very small thin-leaved green stem plants. They may be able to give you the impression of bamboo, since it sounds to me like this is not meant to be iwagumi.

As of now, I'm not a big fan of Rotala sp. mini. I tend to think of it as in the same class of plants with tonninas that I think, "pretty, but just not useful for an over-all lay out."

That said, I invite anyone who thinks otherwise to prove me wrong with an effective use. R. mini isn't commonly available, but Tonninas appear in advanced hobbyist's collections world over. And yet, Tonninas fail to appear in any lay out in the top 60 or so in the ADA contest while Rotala rotundifolia will appear well into the top 20.


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## saint27

The sparkling gourami's will eat your RCS. Trust me I know from expierence that they love to eat them whole. I watch one hunt down a RCS. They are surprisingly quick when they are going for live food.


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## Solstice

*ianmoede*
Thanks for the compliment and the offer. I think I just might tank you take you up on that! I'm going to play around with some different plant layouts in my head over the weekend, but I'll check back in with you.

*Steven*
I love the look of the Cassula helmsi, but I can't find any images of the Micropea minima. I need to check into the growth height of the Cassula but it's definitely a top contender. I'm not going for true iwagumi as I don't want to limit the design to stay within the school, but it will be 95% iwagumi if such a thing is possible. There will be no background on the tank and quite frankly the cables for the 4 computers I have at my desk that have to run behind the tank are ugly, so I want a little backdrop to help hide them. The HC will be the only plant except in the very back of the tank.

*saint27*
Bummer.  I figured the sparkling's mouths would be too small for a shrimp. I guess I'll be looking for different fish as there will definitely be shrimp in this tank. Any suggestions? Requirements: small, colorful and does well in a pair.


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## wood

I really like the layout! Great work with the hardscape. Can't wait to see it up and running with plants!


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## Solstice

*wood*
Just for you buddy, here's a pic of it filled up with the lone aquatic plant I had in the office - a tiny piece of java moss I had in the tetras old tank under a whopping 5w incandescent. :hihi: 










My HC is getting shipped tomorrow so hopefully it will be here Monday or Tuesday and I can start planting it. 

On a side note, this little Azoo Palm filter puts out A LOT of flow for such a tiny thing. Luckily it's adjustable, so I've turned it down to about 1/2 flow....

Better pics next week. Promise!


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## Guillermo

Nice setup Sol, It will look amazing with HC !


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## Solstice

Thank Guillermo!

The more I think about it, the more I want a little more than just HC in this tank, but I'm shying away from stem plants. I still want to keep a clean, basic, simplistic look, but I want to dress it up a _tiny_ bit. I've got some Monosolenium tenerum (_aka Pellia...one of these days I'll either learn the scientific names or give up and stop posting them all together_ ) that I spent the evening tying down to some rocks that I'm thinking about growing out for a background. 

I'm also playing with the idea of using some dwarf hairgrass along the sides of the tank for a little more texture. Something like (and please pardon the MS Paint skills here):










I realize I'm asking for hell trying to keep the HC and hairgrass semi-seperated, but I figure that's what conference calls and 8" tweezers are for. roud: 

This would kind of give the effect that the hairgrass was growing atop the hills on each side of the bridge and the HC was growing on the banks and the bed of the canyon.

What do you guys think?


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## SCMurphy

Solstice said:


> *Steven*
> I love the look of the Cassula helmsi, but I can't find any images of the Micropea minima.


Just to help out. Microcarpea minima is in the background of this pic.


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## wood

Solstice said:


> Thank Guillermo!
> 
> The more I think about it, the more I want a little more than just HC in this tank, but I'm shying away from stem plants. I still want to keep a clean, basic, simplistic look, but I want to dress it up a _tiny_ bit. I've got some Monosolenium tenerum (_aka Pellia...one of these days I'll either learn the scientific names or give up and stop posting them all together_ ) that I spent the evening tying down to some rocks that I'm thinking about growing out for a background.
> 
> I'm also playing with the idea of using some dwarf hairgrass along the sides of the tank for a little more texture. Something like (and please pardon the MS Paint skills here):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I realize I'm asking for hell trying to keep the HC and hairgrass semi-seperated, but I figure that's what conference calls and 8" tweezers are for. roud:
> 
> This would kind of give the effect that the hairgrass was growing atop the hills on each side of the bridge and the HC was growing on the banks and the bed of the canyon.
> 
> What do you guys think?


Hehe, reminds me of that old nintendo game Zelda 

Sounds like a nice aquascape you will have going. You will be dosing with Excel I assume?

-Ryan


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## Gill

Very Interesting Tank. 
Really Like the Scape


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## Solstice

*SCMurphy*
Thanks for the pic. I think if I go with anything other than the HC, DHG and Pellia though, it'll probably be the Crassula helmsi. I'm trying to resist the urge to design version 2.0 of this tank before version 1.0 is finished, but it's tough! :icon_cool 

*Gill*
Thanks buddy!  Hopefully it grows in as well as what I have in my head right now. Ha!

Here's a marginally better photo. As soon as I thought I was getting the hang of shooting this tank, the camera's battery died...go figure... I have to figure out how to keep my reflection from fudging up the tank. I'll have to try some more tomorrow after the Energizer Bunny works his magic.

Anyway, 3 Pellia stones are in the back of the tank now. The java moss is getting yanked today and there's the first shot of the black neon that I haven't named yet. I think that'll have to be my next priority....


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## Solstice

*Wood*
LOL @ Zelda. Now I've got the theme song stuck in my head! Do-da-doooo. Do-do-da-doooooooo. 

Sorry I missed your post. Yes, I'm going to start off dosing with Excel. If I'm not happy with the growth I'm getting out of the HC, I'm going to give Lycosa's DIY Paintball CO2 a shot as I don't want to mess with yeast/sugar/baking soda at work. I'm considering setting one up for my home tank (10gal) too as I've been getting really inconsistent CO2 out of my DIY setup there.

I started dosing EI today using:









Those little baby medication oral injectors are invaluable IMO. I have one for each tank now  The container has enough KNO3/KH2PO4 to last me over 6 months worth of dosing for macros on Mon and Thurs and I'll be using 1.5ml of Flourish on Tues and Fri for micros. Excel will be added at .25ml Mon-Fri. 

This, of course, is just a starting point and will probably be adjusted based on growth/algae issues.


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## SCMurphy

Solstice said:


> *SCMurphy*
> Thanks for the pic. I think if I go with anything other than the HC, DHG and Pellia though, it'll probably be the Crassula helmsi. I'm trying to resist the urge to design version 2.0 of this tank before version 1.0 is finished, but it's tough! :icon_cool


You are welcome, I was just offering a pic of a plant that you said you couldn't find. The HC in that tank was/is growing with Excel and Flourish under a 23 watt screw in PC so I think you should be ok getting HC to grow in your tank. Oh, that's an 8 inch cube tank, 2.2 gallons, just for persepective.


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## Hoppy

I'm not a great aquascaper, so I can't offer much advice there, but naming fish is my specialty: Stripe! How's that for originality, imagination, etc?

Seriously, this is an interesting journal!


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## Solstice

*SCMurphy*
Don't get me wrong, I was seriously thankful for the picture. I didn't me to seem flippant or like I was dismissing it. That's a beautiful nano you've got there. And I'm stoked that Excel will work. That's a lot less to worry about.

*Hoppy*
Awesome! Stripe it is. Or we could go with Striper and tie in the whole Gremlins thing. Haha.


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## Solstice

*HC is planted!*

Wow, I've got a bunch of pics to share this post....

I came into work a half hour early today to get the 2"x2" square of HC that BUCKEYEMOLDED sent me. Haha! Shows how much experience I have with HC. 2 1/2 hours later and I'm finally done. Granted there was some work I had to do in between there, but my goodness, planting HC is tedious!

Not really knowing what to do with it, I decided I'd plant it like I would plant anything else. I gently pulled strands out of the clump of HC, found a root, trimmed the top off right below the root, stripped the leaves about 1/4" up the stem and then pushed it into the soil. I figure all-in-all I probably planted 90-100 individual stems and I still have a decent amount of HC left.

Lessons learned:

After HC is shipped, some parts will arrive better than others. Don't bother with the stuff that didn't come out of the box as well.
Sharp tweezers are a must. I wound up using some tweezers I had instead of my "aquatic forcepts" because they were sharper.
Aquasoil is a lot hard to plant fine stemmed plants in than EcoComplete.
Be patient and take your time. It'll come out better in the long run.

Sorry, back to crappy camera phone pics. I remembered to charge the battery last night but then I left the whole camera at home this morning. DOH!

Here's me prepping the HC. You can see the individual strands I'm ready to plant lined up along the yellow stripe on the ziplock baggie.











And here's a shot of the tank after they're all done. You'll have to pardon the floating HC remnants as I don't have a net here in the office. I'll add that to my lunch time shopping list.











I've also gotten several PMs about the lights that I'm using. As I mentioned before, I originally bought the 27w Home Depot light linked to in the first post (I think) and later replaced it with an architect's desk lamp and a 23w spiral bulb that I had lying around. The reason for this was that, although the bulb in the Home Depot light was advertised as 6500k, it looked a lot more yellow to me.

Here are the lights. I took these pics with them turned off because it glared up the camera too much to shoot them powered on. 

Home Depot special









Architect's light









Finally, here's a pic of what the tank looks like with the Home Depot light that you can compare to the above pic (which has the architect's light over it) to see the color difference










I've decided really prefer the look of the Home Depot light. It looks better over the tank IMO. I think I'll pick up a 6500k bulb for it after all....

Thanks for reading!  :bounce: :icon_cool :thumbsup:


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## Solstice

Ok, I have a question for you guys. My RCS babies are on schedule to hatch next week (assuming the approx. 28 day gestation period is correct). When they do, I'm planning to move a couple of the adults from my 10g at home into the nano. 

My problem is the HC still hasn't rooted very strongly. Topping off the tank today I missed the plate I had floating on the surface for just a second and the downforce of the water uprooted 3 HC stems. How long should I wait for the HC to take hold before I put any shrimp in?


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## SCMurphy

Solstice said:


> *SCMurphy*
> Don't get me wrong, I was seriously thankful for the picture. I didn't me to seem flippant or like I was dismissing it. That's a beautiful nano you've got there. And I'm stoked that Excel will work. That's a lot less to worry about.


I didn't take it as flippant, I just wanted to share a little more info with you and answer some more questions you had. Thank you btw.

I have uprooted and replanted the HC in that tank 3 times with a full load of shrimp in the tank. You don't have to wait for the HC to become established unless you want to.


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## Solstice

*SCMurphy*
I'd just like to avoid having to replant it as much as possible, but I think I'll move some shrimp and some baby spixi snails in soon anyway.

Today acutally I moved offices and, therefore, had to move the tank. I just drained it until there was only about 1" of water above the substrate, lifted it onto an office chair and rolled it to my new space (went from a corner office to a cubicle - damn fast growing companies - or are they trying to tell me something? ). Gotta love the easy of moving a nano! Just a little HC got loosened up and had to be replanted, but other than that, it was really easy.

My RCS just started hatching babies yesterday in my 10gal. I can't wait to get home and see how many eggs the females have hatched! I was dosing the hairgrass that I want to move into this tank with some Excel (clearing up a little BBA first) and one of the females shook her swimmeretts like they do to circulate water around the eggs, but this time a baby shrimp shot out the back. Holy cow they're tiny! Anyway, I figure in a week or two if I'm able to catch any, I'll go ahead and bring them to their new home.

There's a tiny bit of algae growing already on the back right Okho rock, so I figure brining in the cleanup crew sooner rather than later won't hurt.

I'm still debating on what kind of fish to keep in here. The Sparkling Gouramis still really appeal to me and I've read a few threads of people successfully keeping them with shrimp, so I may go ahead and give it a try. 

On another note, my mom asked me if I would setup a tank for her house. I'll do something similar except I'll use wood and less rock in her setup. Just ordered another Picotope today! roud:


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## bioch

Maybe no fish?


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## Solstice

bioch said:


> Maybe no fish?


Well, the problem is, if I was going to do something crazy like that, I just might have to buy some CRS to justify the lack of fish... Hmmm...  :bounce:


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## bioch

Solstice said:


> Well, the problem is, if I was going to do something crazy like that, I just might have to buy some CRS to justify the lack of fish... Hmmm...  :bounce:


Crazy? hmm..? I guess......???


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## Steven_Chong

on the shrimp, CRS are like nothing. Amanos are the problem-shrimp.


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## wood

I really like the tank a lot! It definitely needs time to grow, as do all new tanks. I think that when the HC starts to grow and cover the substrate it will look very very nice and bring out the "broken bridge" rocks a whole lot more. You definitely have a fine nano in the works. 

I was trying to remember the Zelda song but your "phonics" didn't work, lol. 

-Ryan


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## Solstice

*Steven*
Yeah, Amanos are problem-shirmp, but at least they're relatively cheap problem shrimp... 

*wood*
Thank you. The HC is just now starting to shoot out runners. The Pellia is growing a lot slower than I thought it would. I'm starting to wonder if daily Excel doses are knocking it back a bit as, like Riccia, it's a relatively fragile plant. I think I'll hold off on Excel for a couple of days and see if it picks up.

I'm not sure how this "Joe Pleiman" guy is able to take credit for the music when it's actually System of a Down (kinda pisses me off, actually) but maybe this will jar your Zelda memory:

ZELDA - By Josh Spaulding and Joe Pleiman


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## apistaeasy

IMO your tank is very symmetrical, and I find my eyese traveling from left to right, left to right (maybe it's b/c the tank is new and there is not a focal point yet). In your "zelda" picture the tank is even more symmetrical. I find the hard scape to be a little distracting. It seems as though it might be easier on the eyes if te valley were slightly off to one side and leading off to a side, instead of centered leading straight back. It might add depth as well. 
I know this comes a little late, as you've already planted HC...

I look forward to your progress!


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## adamhaulena

I like it a lot. I wouldn't worry about how it looks in paint...once the plants, hardscape and fauna start to interact and mature, it will become more aesthetically pleasing. Come back in a few months and it will be nothing like the green two dimensional blobs in paint.

Adam


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## Solstice

*apistaeasy*
Yes, I agree that it is a little too symmetrical. This is definitely a learning experience and I appreciate all the comments I get. Version 2 of this tank will definitely bring about some changes, but given the inhabitants it will soon have, I'm going to leave things alone for awhile. My hope is that with this layout, after everything is filled in, the "bridge" will be the strong focal point, but in retrospect I do wish that I had laid it out a little more to the right to be more inlne with the golden triangle. The first layout (in the first set of pics) had the valley dead center and going straight back. This layout it is slightly off to the right and goes back and to the right a bit, but I do wish it was more exaggerated.

*adamhaulena*
Thanks! Yeah, I can't wait for it to grow in. The HC has definitely started growing but it's still a little slow. The Pellia is growing at a decent rate now that I've backed off the Excel dosing a bit. 

I decided to buy some more dwarf hairgrass instead of using what I have in my 10gal because it's starting to fill in nicely there and I don't want to tear any of it up to add it to this tank at this point. It should be here on Wed.

I've also ordered the CRS which should be here on Tuesday. Stripe (the black neon) is going to have to move to the 10gal back home so as not to interfere with any breeding that may occur. I've heard that people don't have as much success breeding CRS in nano tanks as they do in larger ones but we'll see what happens. I wound up with 10 grade A shrimp and couldn't be more excited to add them to the tank.


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## Solstice

Update: The HC has grow in a little bit and the pellia has kept on growing steadily. I've cut back on the ferts to dosing micros and macros each once a week and Excel every other day.










Not a whole lot has changed except I've added 12...:


















roud:


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## guitardude9187

how's the tank looking?


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## Solstice

Thanks for asking 

The pellia and the HC are both growing, but they're not exploding. I have very little algae in this tank so I'm hesitant to add a lot more ferts to get them growing faster. I'm trying to be patient and let them grow in on their own. I'm pretty happy with how things are progressing though it could be going a little faster. 

I added the hairgrass on the sides of the tank a couple of weeks ago and some of them are just now starting to send out runners, so that should fill in nicely too. 

Somehow I managed to lose the valley effect with the slopes on the sides. It's still there, just not as pronounced. At first I was pretty disappointed about it, but the look of it now is growing on me. 

I've also got a pregnant CRS in there now  I guess I jumped the gun a little bit and posted in the shrimp section about how it is actually possible to breed CRS in small tanks (despite what I've read in numerous other posts/articles), but apparently it's easy to get them to berry up, just hard to get them to hatch, so we'll see how it goes.

Here are some pics:



















Thanks again for the interest


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## A Hill

The tank couldn't look better! The Hair grass added a great touch!

Those CRS will love that tank, and it is highly possible to raise CRS in that tank, good food and patience!

-Andrew


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## dufus

it looks great, but you really need something covering that gigantic heater!


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## Solstice

Thanks Fish Newb!!! I'm hoping so. The eggs have started turning from a dark green/brown color to a lighter yellow which I've read is a good sign that they're developing, so I've got my fingers crossed. I keep forgetting to bring the panty hose I use to cover the filter intake to work, but I suppose I've got at least a few more weeks to get that in place before I have to worry about shrimplettes getting sucked up 

dufus, fo sure! The pellia in the back is growing right next to the heater, so I'm hoping it'll cover most of it up. After reading your comment I also took one of the stronger growing hairgrass bunches and moved it right infront of the heater, so hopefully that'll speed the process up a bit. 

Thanks again for the comments guys!


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## dufus

cool, it should lookgreat when it grows in.
Also, congrats on the crystal berries(hehe)


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## FelixAvery

Wow i like this alot, you have inspired me to order a picotope!
the shrimp are really cool!
could you tell me if the picotope comes with a heater?


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## Solstice

Welcome to the forum! Thanks for the kinds words. And, no the tank doesn't come with a heater. It comes with a light which you will want to replace and a perfectly good filter, but the heater you'll have to buy seperately.


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## sandiegoryu

I hope your CRS eggs hatch well, and correct me if I am wrong, but to be the first documented TPT thread on a succesful hatching of CRS in a nano tank!


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## dufus

(on the heater ?)
no,or if it does he replaced it, he is using a marineland heater, not made by jbj(which i beleive is jebo, right?)


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## FelixAvery

is it just just me or do the ramshorn snails look massive?
i have ones in my tank , they are adults but they look small in the tank

maybe its just the tank size lol

i have a question regarding my tank
what is this?
there is a glob of yellowish stuff on a leaf of my yello dracena
its been there for 2 days and doesnt seem to have done anything?


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## Solstice

sandiegoryu, maybe.... I honestly haven't looked around a whole to see if other TPT members had been successful. I do know there are other successful keepers out there, but not necessarily here. 

The heater is a 50w Visi-Therm heater I got from the good doctors. I had considered the other "nano heaters" out there, but chose this because the nano heaters are statically set and aren't adjustable. Since I was trying to keep the option of keeping CRS in here open eventually (at the outset, I was only considering fish and cherries for the foreseeable future), I wanted something I could adjust. Other than the size, I'm very happy with it, but I'm also confident I'll have it hidden in another month or two.

FelixAvery, the snails do look massive in that tank. I put the ramshorns in there to help the tank cycle because they were easy to catch out of my other tank. I intend to replace them with with Spixi's and MTS's ever since but haven't gotten around to it. 

Do you have a pic of the glob? Could it be eggs from something?


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## hooha

What is your room temp? If it stable you probably don't need the heater.....but with you having Crystals in there you may not want to take the chance if the room temp drops below the upper 60's.....then again with a 50w heater I'd be worried about a malfunction and boiling your tank, which has happened to me before.....


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## Solstice

Good points Hooha, and definitely something for everybody with nanos to take into consideration.

I do keep this tank at my office which is, of course, temperature controlled, however, for the last few months the AC has been on the fritz and the room temp seems to fluctuate from the high 70s to the low 60s. It doesn't happen drastically, but it most definitely happens and I'm most concerned about weekends when I'm not around to take care of things in an emergency. 

I chose the Visi-Therm (which wasn't the cheapest heater available) because of reviews I had read online and their general good reputation. Of course, there is always a risk and disasters certainly do happen, but I'm comfortable with this heater and do notice it working (light on) several times a day to keep the temp at 74 degrees.


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## Solstice

A buddy of mine happened to bring his SLR camera to work today, so I took the opportunity to snap a few shots of the tank without the equipment in it. Unfortunately I didn't have a tripod so the pics didn't come out nearly as clear as I would've liked them to, but I like how the tank looks with now heater and filter! 










This is the best shot my pregnant CRS would let me get. This is a new one that just berried up yesterday or today so now I've got 2  She was right under "the bridge" and facing sideways when I ran to get my friend's camera, but she'd moved by the time I got back. It would've been a great pic.










I'll talk him into bringing his camera back in next week with a tripod so I can snap a few more. 

As always, thanks for looking. roud:


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## Steven_Chong

Good effort, and a cut above. Doing a good job dude


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## fish_lover0591

Nice nano it looks great !


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## Color Me Blue

I love your overall setup!  The dwarf hairgrass and HC work wonderful with your scape. But may I say (in all kindness of course), the pellia is throwing me off. It's like I'm being distracted by green "blobs" in the background. I hope that makes sense?? What kind of look are you trying to achieve with the pellia BG?


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## guitardude9187

dood! those rocks Rock!!
did you find them?


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## Solstice

Steven - Thanks. Your comments are always appreciated. 'Nuff said.

fish_lover - You too 

Blue - Fellow San Diegan! Sweeeet. The idea with the Pellia is for it to eventually grow together in the background to make kind of a hedge. Think of it as a half moss wall. Where I had the tank before, there were a bunch of computer cables running behind it and I wanted the Pellia to grow in and hide that. Now it's not as necessary in that function, but will still serve as a good nursery for baby CRS.

guitardude - The rocks are Ohko stones. I ordered them from Auqa Forest.


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## hooha

It's coming along nicely bud. Are you still just dosing excel? I've found that excel works fine with HC in a nano, you just have to be patient. My HC grows, just relatively slowly. In retrospect, that's probably better than having to rip out glosso/HC/Elatine every few weeks because it's overgrowing too fast.


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## dufus

Once again, Nice tank. Good luck with the CRS babies.


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## Solstice

hooha - Yeah, still dosing Excel daily (.25 tsp). KNO3+KH2PO4 on Mondays and Thrusdays and Flourish on Tuesdays and Fridays. The HC took a long time to really get started, but it's been growing decently for the past week and a half or so, but yes, it is slow but I agree that I'd rather have that than the tank getting out of hand with glosso every week.


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## Color Me Blue

Yes, shrimp love pellia. I look forward to the progress of this tank.  Nice CRS/Bee BTW!  Pssssssst..... where do we line up when you are ready to start selling those beauties? hehehe :hihi: 

*GO CHARGERS!!! * roud:


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## Solstice

Color Me Blue said:


> Yes, shrimp love pellia. I look forward to the progress of this tank.  Nice CRS/Bee BTW!  Pssssssst..... where do we line up when you are ready to start selling those beauties? hehehe :hihi:
> 
> *GO CHARGERS!!! * roud:


You're local too which will make it a lot easier  I'll probably wait a few generations until I consider unloading some of them to make sure I have a good sized breeding colony scattered across a few of my tanks. You'll hear about it here though :thumbsup:


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## Color Me Blue

Cool!  

How's the nano btw? No algae outbreak? I'd like to do a nano one of these days. I figured I better try and excel with my 55g planted tank first.


----------



## Solstice

Color Me Blue said:


> How's the nano btw?


You mean the actual tank itself? I really like it. Happy with my choice. 



> No algae outbreak?


I had a minor hair algae issue in the hairgrass a week or so ago, but I caught it really early, manually removed it and then dosed the Excel right onto the hairgrass for the next few days to make sure it stayed away, and it hasn't come back yet. :thumbsup:


----------



## Solstice

Spotted a third berried female this morning!  I'm debating whether or not to continue with the twice weekly water changes or to reduce it to once weekly to limit stress on the shrimp. I've also cut my ferts in half just to make sure nothing gets too wacky, so I'm dosing EI on Mondays, Flourish on Fridays, and Excel on M-W-F.


----------



## Color Me Blue

You'll have a CRS farm shortly!  Congrad! 

As for the water changes and such, I dunno? Maybe someone here who does CRS in nanos will be able to chime in. I know they stress excellent water quality for CRS, so maybe the once/weekly thing might be pushing it? I dunno? If they are doing great with twice/weekly, why change it? Are you finding them stressed?


----------



## Solstice

I've just read the CRS are more susceptible to water changes while they're carrying eggs and that they'll frequently drop their eggs when significant water changes occur. I'd like to keep things as completely stable as I can. You're probably right though - if they've held onto them this long, I should probably just keep doing what I have been.


----------



## Color Me Blue

At this point in the game, I would keep up what your doing. Then if they do drop their eggs, then try doing the once/weekly water change. Just keep an eye out to see if they get stressed out and such. Note: As I said before, I've never tried the nano keeping. From what you have reported so far, they seem to be doing great with what you are doing. Keep us posted!


----------



## dufus

Yea, i would keep consistant. I haven't bred shrimp yet, but that is the key with cichlids for me.


----------



## Solstice

This morning I discovered the very early stages of staghorn algae growing on a couple of the rocks. I dosed today's dose of Excel straight onto the algae with the filter shut off and now I've got shrimp swimming all over the tank which is freaking me out. They're typically pretty active, but they're ALL swimming around. I didn't use any more Excel that I typically do, so nothing has changed as far as I can tell. I've read that staghorn can be caused by ammonia but ammonia readings are still at 0. I'm doing an emergency 50% change just to make sure....

:frown: :icon_eek:

Edit: My first thought was that one of the females had molted and was giving off her mating hormones, but all of the females are swimming around too which I haven't seen them do when another female was ready to mate. None of them are doing the "shrimp freeze" where the swim, freeze in mid-water and fall back to the substrate, but I'm still freaking out right now.


----------



## dufus

Oh no!
Good luck man!


----------



## James From Cali

The tank is looking great! Any current pics?


----------



## Solstice

James From Cali said:


> The tank is looking great! Any current pics?


Thanks James. The pics on the previous page are less than a week old, so that's the most recent I have. Not much has changed since then (especially with the HC).


----------



## retoid

Anyone know how often ADA restocks?
I see most of their small nano tanks are out of stock.


----------



## Solstice

I have absolutely no idea....


----------



## Solstice

Whew - after the water change everybody is settled down and happy eating some Hikari pellets. I probably over reacted there a little bit, but better safe than sorry with these guys I think.


----------



## Color Me Blue

Maybe it was the direct dose of Excel and that you turned off your filter that caused this reaction??? You usually don't shut the filter off when you dose excel correct? Just throwing this out there, but maybe the "concentration" of excel was more then they could handle? You figure that with your filter turned on, it's cycling thru your tank and filter. But when you turned off the filter and directly injected the excel on the algae, the excel was more concentrated in that area? I dunno?? Nanos give little room for "errors". I figure even those little changes have more of an effect than a larger tank for sure. 

Glad to hear they are doing better.  



Solstice said:


> This morning I discovered the very early stages of staghorn algae growing on a couple of the rocks. I dosed today's dose of Excel straight onto the algae with the filter shut off and now I've got shrimp swimming all over the tank which is freaking me out. They're typically pretty active, but they're ALL swimming around. I didn't use any more Excel that I typically do, so nothing has changed as far as I can tell. I've read that staghorn can be caused by ammonia but ammonia readings are still at 0. I'm doing an emergency 50% change just to make sure....
> 
> :frown: :icon_eek:
> 
> Edit: My first thought was that one of the females had molted and was giving off her mating hormones, but all of the females are swimming around too which I haven't seen them do when another female was ready to mate. None of them are doing the "shrimp freeze" where the swim, freeze in mid-water and fall back to the substrate, but I'm still freaking out right now.


----------



## Solstice

Yeah, I considered that, but I'm dosing such a TINY amount of Excel (0.3ml to be exact) and there weren't any shrimp near the two rocks I dosed it on so I'm not convinced the Excel was the problem. I think it may have just been hormones from another female and the already-berried females were just running from the over-zealous males. Might sound a little crazy, but I'm going to try the direct dosing on the algae again today and see if the same thing happens.


----------



## dougiefresh

Looks very nice - good job. Really like the rocks

By the way. The local fish store has a similar planted tank they have two palm filters on the back with no media. They just use it for water movement. They have lots of nano fish and shrimp in it. Very interesting looking with all the little animals.


----------



## Color Me Blue

Crazy, but maybe a good idea. If it happens again, then you have a good idea what is causing that behavior. If not, then I would thinking hormones too. Good luck!


----------



## Solstice

Well I OD'd the Excel again today and in about 3 mins the shrimp when from eating happily (hadn't gotten any non-algae food for a few days) to frantically swimming all over the tank. I'm joining their undesired excitement a frantic 50% water change. No science here, but my observation is that CRS (never had this problem ODing Excel with my cherries) don't like a lot of Excel. Bummer. :icon_frow


----------



## dufus

hmmm, my (obvious) advice is that you shouldn't OD excel any more?


----------



## Solstice

Yep, that's the plan. Today I dosed .75 ml of Excel instead of the recommended .2ml of Excel (.1ml/gallon - substrate) to clear up the last of the remaining algae in the tank. I've heard all of the arguments for and against using Excel as an algaecide, but the fact is, in my experience, it works and I'll continue to use it in my other tanks. 

I didn't want to let the first experience deter me from continuing to use Excel at higher levels in this tank because there's already so much misinformation out there around planted tanks, and of particular interest to me planted tanks with shrimp (i.e. ferts with shrimp are bad = nonsense). 

So, while I would still encourage other keepers to try it for themselves I've convinced myself (note I say "convinced myself" and not "proven to myself") that the Excel was the problem in both of these incidents and from now on will only dose at the levels I had been before.

So now I'm on to finding out what has let this tiny bit of algae take hold in the last week or so. Plant mass (or lack thereof) is an obvious thought, but considering that plant mass has increased over the last month while fert levels theoritically have stayed the same, I'm not convinced. I've followed the same routine with water changes and ferts and Excel and hadn't seen any algae at all until recently. I think it's time to bring in some test kits from home. I rarely test this tank for anything other than NH3, NO2, NO3 and pH but maybe it's time....


----------



## dufus

I'm using it as an algaecide.
you've pretty much convinced me to not OD excel with very expensive CRS.


----------



## Solstice

Well after a little research I've decided that the algaes (plural) I have are Staghorn and either thread algae or hair algae. The thread/hair algae hasn't taken hold enough really to distinguish the two, at least not with my relatively little experience. The Staghorn is growing mainly on the rock in the back left corner but I plucked a little out of the substrate this morning as well. The unidentified thread/hair algae is growing exclusively on the hair grass from what I can tell.

I'm hesitant to change too much since the HC growth has been pretty good and the hairgrass has started to send out a lot of runners. I just reduced the photoperiod from 10 hours to 8 hours as a first attempt at getting it under control. I'm disappointed that I can't use Excel, espeically for the Staghorn, since it's worked so well in the past.

I've read that Staghorn generally takes hold in the presence of ammonia and the lack of CO2. My ammonia readings are still at 0 and adding CO2 is not an option. I'm not going to deal with DIY CO2 at work and I'm not going to spend $200 for a pressurized setup for a 3gal tank. I will however continue dosing the recommended amount of Excel on a week-daily basis.

Any recommendations out there as far as what else I can do to get rid of this stuff?


----------



## Color Me Blue

Damn algae! :angryfire Why do they always like to ruin a good thing. That sucks that you can't use excel. Has the decrease in light-photo period time helped? Too bad you couldn't introduce a nerite or an amano shrimp. I bet that would take away from your nano experience??


----------



## Solstice

Color ~

I wouldn't be opposed to adding either amanos, but I think nerites get a to be about an inch or so in diameter don't they? That would be a little too large for this tank. I've just finished removing all of the larger ramshorn snails and will be removing the babies as they get big enough to catch and will be replacing them with a few MTS.

I've read that amanos won't touch Staghorn though. THey may help out with the thread/hair algae which is a lot more difficult to manually remove. Hmm. Might have to make a trip to Aquatic Warehouse today and see if they still have any amanos in stock.


----------



## Solstice

Well, the thread/hair algae is all but eliminated from the tank. I find little tiny remnants of it from time to time, but it's easy to snag with some tweezers. The staghorn on the otherhand still has a pretty good hold on the hairgrass. I've been pulling as much of it off as possible, but it's hard to get it to break free without uprooting the hairgrass. 

Instead of overdosing Excel all in one shot, I've decided to try dosing the recommended amont (.25ml in this case) but do it several times a day. I've done this for two days now and, though I haven't seen any change in the algae, it hasn't been freaking the shrimp out either, which I'm especially concerned about now because the momma CRS should be hatching their eggs any day now.

I've also adjusted the light and moved it up further from the water surface to try to limit the amount of light that's getting directly in the tank. I have no idea how much that will help, but I figuerd I'd try it for a week before I go for a 2-day, over-the-weekend, complete blackout next weekend. 

On a non-algae note, controlling the direction of the hairgrass runners has become my new conference call pastime. All the runners seem to want to streak straight into the HC, but by gently pulling on the last blade, I've been able to turn a few of them around and get them to grow back into the edges. Eventually I'll resort to just cutting the runners that are getting too far into the HC off, but for now, I'd like to get them to fill in the rest of the sides.

Hopefully my next post will be to announce some baby CRS!


----------



## Color Me Blue

Sol: Hoping your CRS babies make it!


----------



## sandiegoryu

Me too! and hope you're planning to sell them on a San Diego discount of FREE! just kidding. In my dreams though lol.


----------



## Solstice

Well light me a cigar and call me "Big Daddy". I found 2 baby CRS in the back of the tank today. Will post pics when I get them taken. :icon_mrgr


----------



## Color Me Blue

LOL I just posted a congrad on your other thread.  But CONGRAD again! It is GREAT news!  I can't wait to see the pics! hehehehe


----------



## dufus

sweet, congrats.


----------



## intermision

Any updated pics?


----------



## Solstice

Sure! Thanks for asking 

My buddy and his fancy DSLR are on a cruise in the carribean right now, so I'm not going to spend the time to take all the equipment out of the tank and whatnot, so these are just some quick snapshots pending some better shots that I can hopefully take when he gets back. One of these days I'll buy my own SLR. I'm DYING for a macro lens too.  I also haven't figured out how to keep my reflection out of the pic when shooting up close with a point-and-shoot. If anybody has any recommendations, please PM me.

Full tank shot: 










Corner shot (these seem to be all the rage these days): 










Baby CRS shot 










The pellia has really filled in and I'm getting to the point where I'm almost happy with it. It needs some trimming but I'm too scared of chopping a baby shrimp in half on accident, so I'm waiting until they get moved to another tank or sold (which should be by the end of the month). 

The HC is filling in nicely but still has a few spots to go. I'm pretty much giving up on it growing under the "bridge" but that's ok. 

The only direction the damn hairgrass seems to want to grow is into the HC. I keep trying to redirect the runners back along the sides, but it's tough. I'm disappointed it hasn't filled out the edges more at this point, but I'll keep trying.

Still little to no algae in the tank. I had a small staghorn/hair algae issue a month or two ago, but that's all cleared up. I get some tiny amounts of dust algae on the glass but when I clean it off I don't see it again for 2 weeks or so, so it's not much of an annoyance. 

Thanks again for the interest and for looking!


----------



## intermision

That tank looks amazing.


----------



## RESGuy

I agree, the tank looks great! Good job Sol:thumbsup: :thumbsup:


----------



## Color Me Blue

It's all filled in very nicely Sol! I can't wait to see it in person!


----------



## Solstice

Thanks guys! 

Hey Color, if you look really close, you'll see that baby CRS has "Christin" written on the side of it. Not sure how that got there though. :tongue:


----------



## Color Me Blue

LOL! Hey, I think I see it too! :tongue: Amazing! LOL :biggrin:


----------



## guitardude9187

man gotta give it to you, that is one of the best nano Ive seen and the best part it's at your work place

you deserve :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


----------



## RedIrocZ-28

Where do you get those rocks? I can't seem to find them on a google search.


----------



## Solstice

Thanks guitardude. You guys are too kind.

Red, they're Okho stones that I got from Aqua Forest:
http://www.adana-usa.com/index.php?main_page=afa_product_info&cPath=7_14&products_id=6


----------



## RedIrocZ-28

Solstice said:


> Thanks guitardude. You guys are too kind.
> 
> Red, they're Okho stones that I got from Aqua Forest:
> http://www.adana-usa.com/index.php?main_page=afa_product_info&cPath=7_14&products_id=6


And how many pounds did you use for your setup? I am looking to scape a 60gal cube tank and I wanted to have maybe 1 large rock and 2-3 smaller rocks. I've never seen those rocks in person so I don't know how dense they are and therefore how much a sample would weigh.


----------



## Solstice

RedIrocZ-28 said:


> And how many pounds did you use for your setup? I am looking to scape a 60gal cube tank and I wanted to have maybe 1 large rock and 2-3 smaller rocks. I've never seen those rocks in person so I don't know how dense they are and therefore how much a sample would weigh.


They're relatively porous, but still weight quite a bit. I got 2 or 3 pounds I think and didn't use them all. Email the guys at Aqua Forest. I told them what I was looking for and they sent me exactly what I wanted.


----------



## Color Me Blue

Just saw Sol's tank yesterday. I have to say it even looks better in person! With all the CRS running around in there , it looked like a Xmas display. LOL I got a better appreciation for his layout. I'm still amazed he could acheive this in such a small tank. I'm jealous! LOL :flick: Even in person, it looks larger than it is when you see the entire scape. 

Great job Sol! roud:


----------



## RESGuy

Color Me Blue said:


> Just saw Sol's tank yesterday. I have to say it even looks better in person! With all the CRS running around in there , it looked like a Xmas display. LOL I got a better appreciation for his layout. I'm still amazed he could acheive this in such a small tank. I'm jealous! LOL :flick: Even in person, it looks larger than it is when you see the entire scape.
> 
> Great job Sol! roud:


Awesome! Wish I could see it personally


----------



## Solstice

Christin you are too kind. 

RESGuy - Fly out any time. You buy the plane ticket, I'll buy the beer. Haha.

Another 2 weeks or so and the HC should be fully grown in and I should've unloaded enough CRS to trim the Pellia. I'll add more pics then.


----------



## RESGuy

Solstice said:


> Christin you are too kind.
> 
> RESGuy - Fly out any time. You buy the plane ticket, I'll buy the beer. Haha.
> 
> Another 2 weeks or so and the HC should be fully grown in and I should've unloaded enough CRS to trim the Pellia. I'll add more pics then.


Sounds tempting


----------



## eklikewhoa

The tank has really turned out good!


----------



## Haeun

Christin's right! It looks amazing in person!  Amazing tank you have, and so small! Makes me want to swap my 5 hex (which I ended up making my shrimp tank) for a 3 nano too. :icon_twis :angel:


----------



## hooha

very nice! You haven't let the hardscape get covered up too, which is seen too often in tanks....nice job


----------



## FelixAvery

> RESGuy - Fly out any time. You buy the plane ticket, I'll buy the beer. Haha.


tut tut tut selling beers to minors 
im definatly taking a gap year so i might have to come to meet the san diego planted tank crew


----------



## Solstice

FelixAvery said:


> tut tut tut selling beers to minors


DOH! Offer rescinded. Don't need the FBI busting my door down. :tongue:

hooha, actually the hardscape is pretty much lost at this point. LOL. That damn pellia took over!!! I really need to trim it....


----------



## RESGuy

FelixAvery said:


> tut tut tut selling beers to minors
> im definatly taking a gap year so i might have to come to meet the san diego planted tank crew


Darn Felix, shouldn't of told you I'm 14 .... 
I don't like beer anyways, got some Smirnoff?:icon_roll


----------



## Haeun

Triple Distilled? :icon_twis


----------



## Solstice

Sorry, Kettle One and Grey Goose only here. Call me in 7 years.... LOL


----------



## RESGuy

Solstice said:


> Sorry, Kettle One and Grey Goose only here. Call me in 7 years.... LOL


Will do


----------



## hooha

Solstice said:


> hooha, actually the hardscape is pretty much lost at this point. LOL. That damn pellia took over!!! I really need to trim it....


lol, I was going to commend you too on keeping that Pellia in check. It's like sinking duckweed.....


----------



## Yoshi

wow, just read through all 8 pages of this thread and it's inspired me to start a nano. I'm a fellow San Diegan too, where do you order your plants? Do you ever go to Aquatic Warehouse or Octopuss Gardens for your livestock?


----------



## cjyhc4

Yoshi said:


> wow, just read through all 8 pages of this thread and it's inspired me to start a nano.


Makes two of us. I have the exact same tank sitting in my living room, brand new in the box. I can't wait to get moved so I can pull it out


----------



## FelixAvery

picture update please 
i love this tank so much, i remeber when u started it, totally inspired my scapes!
do you think we can get a picture of this tank in perspective with an everyday object?


----------



## jeffthefish

Hey Solstice,

It would be AWESOME to see a photo of the actual footbridge that inspired this piece.

I was talking to a coworker today and his screen saver displayed a picture of a landscape in Costa Rice. I quickly stood up from my desk and said, "SEND ME THAT PHOTO! IT'S A POTENTIAL AQUARIUM!!"

You're starting a revolution, Sol! (^_^)


----------



## Haeun

Haha, you did Sol. I have all plans to switch my 5 hex to a nano, once I go home next month. :icon_twis
And woo, I seriously didn't realize how many San Diegans and LA-ers were into scaping until I came to APC and PT.


----------



## Solstice

Wow! This thread just blew up! 

Sure, i can take some more pics on Monday.  And I'll make sure to get some with an everyday object next to it. 

Yoshi, yes, I go to AW on occasion. Never been to Octopus Gardens though. Almost all of my plants have been bought through swap-n-shop here though. I was just in AW this morning actually. It looks like I'll be supplying them with some CRS. They're taking 50 off my hands in a couple of weeks when they're "sellable size" (larger than the ones I ship online). 

They have a new tank that's completely full of stem plants now. I'm thinking I'll probably pick some up for my new 24g cube I'm planning 

jeffthefish, here's a crappy pic of the bridge. 










The San Diegans in the group my recognize it as the Banker's Hill Footbridge. I'll try to get a better pic of it.

Thanks for all the nice comments all. I'm excited to see what you guys come up with!


----------



## Color Me Blue

Sol, you must have striked a great deal with Sam eh? hehehe Good for you!!!  When I was at AW the other day, they had just received a new shipment of plants. Nice too! It's too bad I didn't need any at the time.  I wonder how much AW is going to sell your CRS for? I'll probably be standing by that tank looking like this "  " LOL


----------



## Solstice

LOL! Thanks so much for the lead Christin. Sam was all "Damn, that was fast! I was just talking to her yesterday!" Haha. 

I don't know how much they're going to sell them for, but their cherries are friggin $5 each, so I can imagine the CRS will probably go for at least $10. Still won't be a bad price considering people won't have to pay shipping, but believe me, they will be marking it up A LOT. But that's their cost of doing business and I have no problem with that 

Yeah, I'm still pretty new to planted tanks (don't even have a year under my belt yet), so it was really nice to see a lot of plants I'd heard about and seen pictures of in person. I'm diggin Rotala Walichi all of a sudden. That'll definitely find a place in my new tank. That and some Tonina Belem will definitely have big roles in that scape...


----------



## FelixAvery

how much did u get for them?


----------



## Color Me Blue

No problem Sol! LOL  It's true about the price of CRS though. If you think about it, that would be the general price if ya include shipping. So not bad at all. I'm going to be hitting you up for some S grade in a few months. hehehe I'm going to set up a new tank w/ AS and a chiller, so when it's ready, I'll be looking for you! 

I hear ya about the R. Walichi, it's very pretty. But the plant Paradise is wanting to concentrate on (see SCAPE site where he's getting rid of some plants to make room for this new plant-I forgot the name of it) it's absolutely beautiful!! The leaves are like green ribbons. Just an awesome plant!  

Sol: For your new tank, will you be using AS too?


----------



## Solstice

Color Me Blue said:


> Sol: For your new tank, will you be using AS too?


Yep, I'm hooked.

Wow, that Eriocaulaceae Type 2 is gorgeous (here's a pic for the non-SCAPE members):









Funny how similar it is to the Tonina Belem:









That's the pic that got me jonesin' for this plant 6 months ago. I can't wait to get my hands on it.


----------



## Yoshi

Sol, that's interesting info on the CRS & AW. Hope it goes through, Pat's a great guy. You should drop by Octopuss Gardens if you're ever by the AW area again... it's literally 5-10 minutes away (on Convoy). They mostly carry SW, but they also have a FW section w/a decent variety of plants... worth checking out since you're close to the area anyways.

See ya around, keep up the pics!


----------



## Color Me Blue

Tonina Belem is a very nice looking plant too! It's going to love AS and high light of course. You'll have to post pics when you get it into your new tank.


----------



## guitardude9187

how's the tank looking?

i'm guessing you trimmed down some of the pellia?:wink: 

awesome crs btw


----------



## Solstice

Pics within an hour or two, I promise! 

The snails are macking on an algae wafer front and center right now, so that'll just look ugly. :tongue:

I'm glad you're happy with the CRS and that they arrived safely!  

Good thing they made it when they did. I heard the weather out there is going to get even nastier this week. Haha.


----------



## guitardude9187

i should take some pictures, it's pretty cool

green grass, blossom flowers with 2-3inches of snow...haha good ole chicago


----------



## Solstice

Ok, here are the shots. Not a whole lot has changed since the last photos except the pellia's gotten a little taller in the back, the HC has filled in towards the middle a little more and there are a lot less snails. Haha. 










3/4 shot:









I have this stubborn patch of AquaSoil right in the front that just REFUSES to allow any HC to grow in it  I've resorted in the past couple of days to laying the light down on its side in front of the tank to shoot light right on that patch. We'll see how it works. 










Thanks for the interest everybody. I wish I had more progress to show, but in another couple of weeks I'll take some shots after removing all of the equipment from the tank. Actually, I'm not shooting anything, but I'll have a buddy of mine do it. These seem to be the best pics I can take and I don't like them much.


----------



## dufus

Still looks great, that pelia is a crazy looking plant.
"stubborn aquasoil"-LOL.


----------



## mrbelvedere

Solstice said:


> Wow, that Eriocaulaceae Type 2 is gorgeous
> Funny how similar it is to the Tonina Belem:


That's because Tonina and Eriocaulon are within the same family of plants. The Type 2 might actually be a Tonina.


----------



## RESGuy

The tank is coming along great :thumbsup:


----------



## valleyvampiress

The tank looks great! I love seeing little CRS everywhere. I'm surprised you were able to control the hair grass from impeding on the HC.


----------



## FelixAvery

love it! i soo badly want one of theese!
this is like one of the best nanos!


----------



## hooha

the good thing about Monoselenium is that you can shape it pretty easily. The bad thing about Monoselenium is that it's like sinking duckweed - invasive as heck. In a nano like this I'm guessing it's easier to pick out. I'm convinced into trying it in a nano now


----------



## guitardude9187

nice work keeping a hold of the hairgrass

i'm looking at it now and i think you could possibly add more debt into the tank if you trim the pellia back a bit and thin it out but then i think a pellia wall would probably look awesome too... decisions, decisions


----------



## Yoshi

How are you trimming (or planning on trimming) your HC? Are you mowing it like a lawn (cutting the tops off)? Or do you cut portions out and replant?


----------



## Solstice

Thank you everybody 



valleyvampiress said:


> I'm surprised you were able to control the hair grass from impeding on the HC.


VV, the hairgrass has been growing pretty slowly. I'm not thrilled with the rate that it's filling in at, so it's been pretty easy. A few longer runners have shot out into the HC but some careful tweezer work has let me pull them up and replant them along the sides. 



hooha said:


> the good thing about Monoselenium is that you can shape it pretty easily. The bad thing about Monoselenium is that it's like sinking duckweed - invasive as heck...


hooha, the hardest part is trimming. I've only trimmed it twice, but when I do, little pieces fly everywhere that will eventually grow into new Pellia colonies. After the last trim, it took me a good 25 minutes to track down all of the little pieces of Pellia aound the tank.



Yoshi said:


> How are you trimming (or planning on trimming) your HC? Are you mowing it like a lawn (cutting the tops off)? Or do you cut portions out and replant?


Hey Yoshi, the HC hasn't had to be trimmed at all. I have a lot of light over that tank (27w for 3 gallons) so the light is keeping the HC growing nice and low. Hopefully it stays that way :hihi:


----------



## hooha

Solstice said:


> hooha, the hardest part is trimming. I've only trimmed it twice, but when I do, little pieces fly everywhere that will eventually grow into new Pellia colonies. After the last trim, it took me a good 25 minutes to track down all of the little pieces of Pellia aound the tank.
> 
> 
> 
> lol, don't remind me.....I remember doing that in a 55 gallon and frantically trying to catch pieces before they got lost in the forest of stem plants, only to reappear a week later as a big mass....
Click to expand...


----------



## FelixAvery

maybe you could ask someone to siphon them off as you cut?


----------



## Haeun

How do you not get algae in your nano?! Maybe it's because I'm not really ferting my tank, but I'm seeing some green spot algae, yarr. :{


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## Solstice

Haeun said:


> How do you not get algae in your nano?! Maybe it's because I'm not really ferting my tank, but I'm seeing some green spot algae, yarr. :{


I have had a few small bouts with algae. There was some BBA and some thread algae in the hairgrass and I occasionally get some dust algae on the glass that I have to clean off (every month or so) but that's about it.

The fert balance, the water changes, and the Excel (remember, I double-dose Excel in this tank, .25ml in the morning and .25 in the evening) all have to do with keeping the algae at bay. 

Sorry, I forgot to call you about getting some ferts for you. Will send you a PM....


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## Solstice

I'm feeling the itch to make a change and I have no idea what to do, so I thought I'd ask you guys and see what kind of creative ideas come back. 

2 thoughts:

Should I add wood?
Should I have something grow above the water line?

What do you all think. I'm happy with how the tank looks, I just feel like I don't get to play with it anymore :tongue:


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## Yoshi

I vote "NO" on the wood. I like how it looks w/the rocks right now... 

I honestly think you should just leave it as is, if you're getting bored with it, I guess u can try it out, b/c you can always just try to revert back to the old scape if you don't like it. Keep it original! Just my 2 cents


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## dufus

I don't think you should touch it!
it looks good, and if it'scomplicated too much, it may not turn out well.

If you get bored with it, how about making lilies, canister filter, stand, canopy, etc. for it?


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## FelixAvery

add a copepod refugium, that would help the shrimp to breed, as the water quality would be improved
or procure a rare type of shrimp and try and breed them in there aswell


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## Solstice

Ok, ok, I guess the consensus is don't mess with it. I'll take that as a complement. Thanks!

dufus, I like your ideas of playing with the equipment rather than the tank. I think I'll do just that. Are there any nano lily pipes out there? Replacing the HOB would be a nice first step.


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## eklikewhoa

Let it grow in!!! 


an update would be cool too! ADA makes mini-lily pipes which are really nice.


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## Yoshi

Inflow: http://www.adana-usa.com/index.php?main_page=afa_product_info&cPath=26_3&products_id=80

Outflow: http://www.adana-usa.com/index.php?main_page=afa_product_info&cPath=26_3&products_id=79

As for the canister filter, I'd look into the TOM mini canister, or the ZooMed 501. I believe both can be found for rather inexpensive (~$40?).


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## guitardude9187

wow 100+ for just the pipes and thats not even counting s/h

don't go with the tom, go with zoo med. i have the tom and i'm not impress with it


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## Solstice

guitardude9187 said:


> wow 100+ for just the pipes and thats not even counting s/h
> 
> don't go with the tom, go with zoo med. i have the tom and i'm not impress with it


Yeah, I think I'll have to sell a few more CRS before I start spending that kind of cash on little pieces of glass, as pretty as they are.... :tongue: They're nice, but not worth that kind of money IMO. I'd rather spend the money on a new filter for my 90g.


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## Yoshi

Yea, the ADA pipes are of course going to cost an arm and a leg... for a cheaper alternative, you can ask Cal Aqua Labs about their lily pipes, but I don't recall them having a "nano" size, most of their pipes are too long for small tanks. With that kind of money, you might as well start a new tank


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## dufus

Solution?
DIY: Lillies-
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/32867-nellis-makes-acrylic-lillies.html?highlight=lillies

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/8618-glass-lillie-pipe-diy.html?highlight=lillies

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/d...lows-no-lilies.html?highlight=canister+filter

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/27817-diy-acrylic-lilly-pipes.html

filter-
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/44959-how-i-built-my-mini-canister.html?highlight=lillies

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/d...ter-nano-tanks.html?highlight=canister+filter


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## FelixAvery

nice post dufus!


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## eklikewhoa

you can search for an Eheim 2011/2211 which is perfect for nano tanks, I have one on my Mini-M and it's fantastic!


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## Haeun

Hmm, what about this "Rapids Mini Canister Filter"?

Anyone tried this one before?
At $24.99, it's pretty cheap. And the dimensions are 3-1/2" x 5-11/16" x 7" high.


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## guitardude9187

that the TOM i was referring too..:thumbsdow


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## mr.sandman

It's pretty good because it has a bigger area to put media in than a HOB filter. I have been planning to get it but there is no room around my tank.


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## retoid

that Rapids Mini Canister Filter looks pretty cool


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## FelixAvery

im using a massive eheim liberty 150, its a hangon but its a total beast!


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## jeffthefish

I ordered the Rapids Mini canister for my 2.5. We'll see how it goes. Thanks for the link.


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## hooha

Solstice said:


> I'm feeling the itch to make a change and I have no idea what to do, so I thought I'd ask you guys and see what kind of creative ideas come back.
> 
> 2 thoughts:
> 
> Should I add wood?
> Should I have something grow above the water line?
> 
> What do you all think. I'm happy with how the tank looks, I just feel like I don't get to play with it anymore :tongue:


Time for another nano


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## Solstice

hooha said:


> Time for another nano


My gf and I are talking about moving to a new house in a few months. I already put dibs on a corner in the garage for a rack of tanks. Must...resist...urge...to get...new...tank...now! :hihi:


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## Color Me Blue

The garage?? Take a dib on a room! LOL :red_mouth


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## Solstice

Haha. I've already got three tanks going IN the house and I know I'm pushing my luck with that! Being a woman, you should know that the female of the species wield executive and veto powers over everything house related. The garage on the other hand...that's my domain!


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## Color Me Blue

hahahaha LOL That's true Sol, I can't argue that! You have to be sneaky about it though....get her hooked into the whole planted tank/aquatic thing. But then again, it's always good to have a buffer. Otherwise you'll both spend all your money into the hobby. hahaha LOL


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## Solstice

In my frustration in catching some shrimp who refused to come out of the Pelliafor a shipment today I did this:










I kinda like it more. Granted there are a lot more Pellia bits to pull out and it'll take a month or two for the HC to fill in back there but what do you guys think?


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## kzr750r1

Ahhhhhh I liked it before... In all I'm impressed with the intrest this thread has. Have you looked at the view count?


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## Solstice

It can all go back, I was just getting fed up with it. It's sitting in a container under light to stay healthy.

I'm torn. 

I like the barrier. I like the fact that it kind of makes it look like there's a grove of trees back there.

I know the shrimp will miss it.

But at the same time I think it'll look really cool with a ton of HC back there. 

Hmmm.....

PS. And yes, I do realize how fortunate I've been to get as much awesome feedback from fellow scapers in this thread as I have.  It's been a lot of fun.


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## Color Me Blue

I actually like this view better. But I would suggest a background on the glass, but as to what color, I'm not sure. I think black may look to bleak for your setup. Maybe a blue. light green??


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## kzr750r1

I agree with the assessment it looked much larger with the wall in the back.

C M B Ninja!


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## Color Me Blue

How about a moss wall?


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## Color Me Blue

kzr750r1 said:


> C M B Ninja!


LOL :hihi:


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## FelixAvery

maybe keep it in but take it out for catching stuff
and you should get some longer hairgrass planted behind it to give a higher background


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## Yoshi

I second the hairgrass. IMO you need something back there... the pellia provided a nice background, I thought it added a sense of depth to the tank.


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## dufus

I liked the pelia back there. Hairgrass and HC is a very common combo in nanos, i liked the uniqueness of the pelia.


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## Solstice

Color Me Blue said:


> How about a moss wall


To tell you the truth, I've never liked the look of moss walls. They look too unnatural IMO, but thanks for the suggestion.



FelixAvery said:


> maybe keep it in but take it out for catching stuff
> and you should get some longer hairgrass planted behind it to give a higher background


Only problems with that Felix are that any time you touch Pellia, bits and pieces fly of everywhere and you wind up spending the next half of your day picking them back out, and that pulling them out would also mean having to check VERY closely for baby CRS. I almost lost 3 of them today pulling the Pellia out.



Yoshi said:


> ...the pellia provided a nice background, I thought it added a sense of depth to the tank.


I agree 



dufus said:


> I liked the pelia back there. Hairgrass and HC is a very common combo in nanos, i liked the uniqueness of the pelia.


You're right. 

Ok, after the feedback and staring at the tank for an hour, I'm prepping the Pellia go to back in. I shouldn't change a layout that I'm happy with just because it'll cause a little extra work. I think I'll try to keep it under a little better control this time around, but I did like the look of it.

Thanks for the comments everybody!


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## dufus

Woohoo!
The pelia Is stayin!

[man, any major change in this thread causes a state of the union address to be postponed!]


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## kzr750r1

dufus said:


> [man, any major change in this thread causes a state of the union address to be postponed!]


You aint kidding


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## Solstice

Hi guys and gals! Long time no post :icon_mrgr 

So after almost a month, my ZooMed 501 finally arrived. Apparently FedEx returned the first one to the seller because it was damaged in transit, but I got it in late last week and want to get around to setting it up.

Now I'm looking for intake/output options. Yoshi posted links to the ADA lily pipes and Dufus posted a bunch of DIY lily pipe threads, but I'm not in love with either. The ADA pipes are too expensive and I'm looking for something a little more "finished" that the DIY pipes (no offense to the guys that took the leap and made them, and IMO some of them are very nice, but I'd really like something glass rather than acrylic). 

So I'm looking for other options. Is anybody aware of some cheaper pipes or do they have any lying around they'd either like to sell or possibly trade some CRS for? I'd make it worth your while roud:

Edit: I'm open to other ideas besides lily pipes as well. I just want the tank appearance to be cleaner. Any thoughts?


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## mrbelvedere

The mini-lilly pipes are only $50 and $57, respectively. Assuming your tank is less than 4mm thick. It's acrylic, so it should be.


I know, "only" $107 for filter accessories :icon_bigg


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## MARIMOBALL

keep us posted cuz I have a 501 that im giong to use for an ADA 60p coming tomorow from Aqua Forrest :bounce: Ill need some pipes also. BTW is 18gal considered a nano cuz ill be starting a journal. on the 60p can't wait.


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## sandiegoryu

18 is not REALLY a nano. I would post it on the Photo Album.

Please keep us posted on your findings. I'm looking for better intake/outake as well. The stuff that the Zoomed comes with is pretty ugly. And for a cheaper price it would be fantastic.


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## FelixAvery

can we get an update?


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## Solstice

I haven't found anything yet other than Cal Aqua Labs. I've sent them an email asking about availability, but their pair of intake/output tubes looks like it will still run close to $100. Still looking for other options. 

I'll post some pics as soon as I figure something out. Not much has changed since the last pics with the exception of more CRS and the Pellia has recovered a little since I butchered it.


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## Burks

Your tank looks spectacular! Awesome job. The shrimp really make the tank look great.

I have a JBJ Picotope as well but mine is a reef tank. I like the look so much that my next freshwater tank will be a Picotope as well.


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## Yoshi

Is price the only concern w/the ADA lily's? I think you should just get it done right the first time, and buy the ADA's. Sell another batch of your CRS and you'll be well on your way for fundraising enough extra cash for the lily pipes.

Look at it this way, if you ever upgrade your tank... or re-use equipment. You're going to want something you WANT to re-use, and not some 2nd or 3rd rate job/product that you want to sell instead of re-use. Just my 2 cents; get the ADA's!


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## Solstice

Thanks Burks!  Share pics when you get it up. I'd really like to see your reef tank too.

Yosh, I hear ya. It's not about being stingy or not wanting the best, it's just that there is no way I can justify $124 (with shipping) for a couple of little (really little) pieces of glass. It just doesn't fly with me. I don't at all mind spending money on things that I think are worth that much, but I can get a piece of Murano glass that takes 10x the skill to make as those pipes for the same price. It just makes my eyes gloss over.... 

Anyway, heard back from Cal Aqua Labs and their pieces are out of stock and would be too large for this tank anyway. 

Maybe I should consider finding a glass blower.


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## FelixAvery

im pushing the boat out for my next tank, beacuse expensive things like pressurized co2 and lilys are an investment


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## guitardude9187

Solstice said:


> Thanks Burks!  Share pics when you get it up. I'd really like to see your reef tank too.
> 
> Yosh, I hear ya. It's not about being stingy or not wanting the best, it's just that there is no way I can justify $124 (with shipping) for a couple of little (really little) pieces of glass. It just doesn't fly with me. I don't at all mind spending money on things that I think are worth that much, but I can get a piece of Murano glass that takes 10x the skill to make as those pipes for the same price. It just makes my eyes gloss over....
> 
> Anyway, heard back from Cal Aqua Labs and their pieces are out of stock and would be too large for this tank anyway.
> 
> Maybe I should consider finding a glass blower.


totally agree :thumbsup:.

if you're getting a glass blower to do it, it'll probably run up to close to the amount you don't want to spend. 

Before you go do that, ace hardware has acrylic tubes (very cheap), then all you need is a heat gun and some elbow grease. plus making a purchase on a tool is never a waste but an investment for the future.

not trying to change your mind but an option for ya roud:


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## sandiegoryu

If you find a glass blower and find out the price, please tell me. I would love some nano lily pipes as well. And I have a zoomed 501 too so what works for you, must for work me :-D.


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## Solstice

Will do Shumpei! If do decide to go that route, I'll likely look into getting a group buy together so we can purchase a dozen or so sets at once and hopefully knock the price down a little bit.


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## Speshall*K

This is one crazy thread.. I am basing my new nano according to the equipment and plants that you used! I am also hoping to get so RCS soon!!!


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## macnut

Solstice said:


> Will do Shumpei! If do decide to go that route, I'll likely look into getting a group buy together so we can purchase a dozen or so sets at once and hopefully knock the price down a little bit.


I'd be down for a set as well :smile:


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## garuf

I've found some zoomed specific nano lily's on ebay, I'll post them up when I got home, not cheap though, about $50 with postage.


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## C2C

could you update this thread with some picture im really interested in this thread...i want to start a planted tank like this one


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## Solstice

Hey C2C,

Thanks for the interest. The tank is very different now. I'll try to post some pics later this afternoon.

Sol


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## C2C

yea i read through all 14 pages...i was wondering what you dose...im new to planted aquariums...ive done everything else from fresh and saltwater to fresh and saltwater ponds to reef aquariums but never plants...when reading through your thread all i saw were abreveations and didnt know what they stood for


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## Solstice

Ah, that's an easy one. Check my signature for a link to my dosing routine and then go here: http://www.bestaquariumregulator.com/ferts.html 

Aquariumfertilizer.com (the site that took over for Gregg Watson) seems to be offline but I've bought stuff from Rex a number of times and he's a great guy to buy from.


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## C2C

so whats diffrent about your tank


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## C2C

do you think a diy co2 setup would be a good idea on a tank this small


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## Solstice

No, in a tank that small, it's more trouble than it's worth. I dose Flourish Excel and am perfectly happy with it. 

I'm lagging on tank pics.


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## C2C

im trying out Hagens plant product


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## C2C

no pictures yet...im anxious to see the tank


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## MsNemoShrimp

If you don't mind me asking...does anyone happen to know what happend to Solstice?


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## ange062

Very cool looking tank! I just setup a SW version of this at work and am trying to get a friend to setup a planted one, this is a perfect example to model one off of!


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