# Fighting BGA need help!



## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

Hello all, I have a 22g planted tank setup with co2 injection and EI ferts, but have been getting BGA and i cant for the life of me remove it. I have tried lowering the light duration to just 5 hours, that didn't help, i have lowered the intensity in half (from max), still no change. The light i am using is the Finnex 24/7 24".

What would you recommend? If any additional information is needed just ask and i will provide it . I really want to grow some nice plants in this tank, but this BGA is very frustrating indeed.

Thanks!


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

My best advice;

BGA & Erythromycin
Day 1.
Add 2.5 mg/L erythromycin. If you have a protein
skimmer, turn it off. I believe it will inactive a lot of the
antibiotic through coprecipitation with protein. It will,
however, be very usefull later.

Day 2.
Add 2.5 mg/L erythromycin.

Day 3.
Now you should see a lot of dead blue-green bacteria
floating around in the tank. Increase filtration (a second
mechanical filter if possible) to get rid of it. If you have a
protein skimmer, turn it on. The critical thing now is to get
rid of as much protein (dead bacteria) as possible to avoid a
peak of ammonia.

Day 4.
Most blue-green bacteria should be dead by now. Try to
clean out as much as possible of the dead stuff. I use a jet
stream of water from the outlet of a canister filter to remove
it from plants and decorations. Combined with the second
mechanical filter, this works fine for me. Let the filter work
for a couple of hours then make a 50% water change. Add 2.5
mg/L erythromycin.

Day 5-7.
Wash the mechanical filter at least once a day. Keep
check on ammonia and nitrite but do not change any water
unless absolutely necessary. The extra filter can be removed
as soon as the water clears up.

Day 8.
Make a 30% water change. Add 1 mg/L erythromycin.

From now on, resume your normal maintenance.


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

Immortal1 said:


> My best advice;
> 
> BGA & Erythromycin
> Day 1.
> ...


Thank you for the response, does this anibiotic have a tendancy to kill plants also? And I'm not too sure this is easy to get ahold of in the UK i will have to look.

Thanks


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

In my experience it has no effect on plants or fish. I do seem to recall there is a similar product available in the UK, just don't remember the name. Dosing procedure should be the same if you find some.


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

Immortal1 said:


> In my experience it has no effect on plants or fish. I do seem to recall there is a similar product available in the UK, just don't remember the name. Dosing procedure should be the same if you find some.


Ok that is great news, and i have been searching and it seems hard to get, i was looking for the API 
E.M. ERYTHROMYCIN, but i think i will have to ship it from the US. I'll keep searching and hopefully find a place in the UK that stocks it


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

Immortal1 said:


> In my experience it has no effect on plants or fish. I do seem to recall there is a similar product available in the UK, just don't remember the name. Dosing procedure should be the same if you find some.


After searching The API ERYTHROMYCIN product is going to be hard to get ahold of anytime soon. I have found chemiclean, which seems to be praised for removing BGA, shall i go for this or wait for shipment from US with the ERYTHROMYCIN?


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

The ChemiClean seems to be a pretty good product. Unfortunately I have no experience with it. My suggestion would be to give it a try especially as it is specifically designed to treat "cyanobacteria in marine aquariums"


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## Tinanti (Aug 25, 2005)

Antibiotics are like using a bandaid on a cut that's still bleeding. Yes, you can use it to clean up the current mess. But why is it there?

Incorrect N to P ratio. It thrives in environments deficient in nitrogen because it can fix atmospheric nitrogen dissolved in the water.


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

Tinanti said:


> Antibiotics are like using a bandaide on a cut that's still bleeding. Yes, you can use it to clean up the current mess. But why is it there?
> 
> Incorrect N to P ratio. It thrives in environments deficient in nitrogen because it can fix atmospheric nitrogen dissolved in the water.


Thanks for the reply, i do agree with this and would prefer to go about it naturally, but to get my tank back to looking green i will be willing to try most things.

I'm still experimenting with the EI method, but what would you suggest as a balanced N to P rating for a 22g?


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

For N balancing test your water for nitrate and phosphate; these are common test kits.

However nutrients are not the only issue at play. BGA also arises from high organics and microbial imbalance. Make sure your biofiltration capacity is adequate, your plants are doing well and not rotting, and that your tank is well-oxygenated.


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

Axelrodi202 said:


> For N balancing test your water for nitrate and phosphate; these are common test kits.
> 
> However nutrients are not the only issue at play. BGA also arises from high organics and microbial imbalance. Make sure your biofiltration capacity is adequate, your plants are doing well and not rotting, and that your tank is well-oxygenated.


Ok I am going to get a new nitrate kit, and a phosphate kit. I have a Fluval 306 in my 22g with decent flow through a spray bar, i would like more water movement deeper in the tank, so maybe that is something to look into, maybe a powerhead? I do have some monte carlo that is melting away, so maybe that isn't helping the BGA. I have tried a hydor powerhead before, but the water was being turned way too much for my tank size.


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## York1 (Dec 18, 2014)

chemiclean works great. Ive used it a few times with fast results


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

York1 said:


> chemiclean works great. Ive used it a few times with fast results


Hoping it works for me also!  Did the cyano come back for you?


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## York1 (Dec 18, 2014)

No it didnt come back but I made some changes to the tank. I added a 600gpa circulation pump and changed my filter maintenance/water change schedule


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

I have a 120 gallon (4' x 2' x 2') tank. I just run 2x Eheim 2217 on it. I actually get better plant growth and less algae than when I had additional powerheads. Turns out my plants did not like the strong flow. As long as your water is not stagnant BGA should not proliferate too much for this reason. I would figure out what is ailing your monte carlo.


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

Axelrodi202 said:


> I have a 120 gallon (4' x 2' x 2') tank. I just run 2x Eheim 2217 on it. I actually get better plant growth and less algae than when I had additional powerheads. Turns out my plants did not like the strong flow. As long as your water is not stagnant BGA should not proliferate too much for this reason. I would figure out what is ailing your monte carlo.


 I would do that but I haven't got any space in my cabinet due to the Co2 canister and heater. The fluval 306 with the spray bar I was expecting to be sufficient, my tank dimensions are (24" x 14" x 18") I can get a video tomorrow to show the water movement, but it defiantly is not stagnant. I am using ADA Arizona soil for the substrate and as mentioned above the Finnex 24/7 I would expect the Monte Carlo to show some growth. This is with EI dosing throughout the week, and a 50% WC on Sat. I have ordered a new nitrate test kit as my old one was out of date, and a phosphate kit to see how my water parameters are like.


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

How old is the tank? Is the monte carlo new?


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

Axelrodi202 said:


> How old is the tank? Is the monte carlo new?


The tank is roughly 4-5 months old, and the monte Carlo was added after i tried HC with no luck. The monte Carlo was added in mid Feb.


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

I have done a nitrate test with my old test kit as i wait for my new kit to arrive, but this reading is showing around 40ppm, I am dosing EI and yesterday was macro, and today I skip. I presume this is an effect of the EI? It could also be the test kit is bad, but thought i would show regardless. If it is actually that high could that be reason for the BGA? Once the new nitrate and phosphate kits arrive i will re test though. Thanks


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

Yes, 40 ppm is way above what your plants need. I find maintaining 5 ppm is enough even for my tank full of weedy stems. Some other (very accomplished) scapers I know go up to 20 ppm, but I have never seen anyone intentionally maintaining above that. 

Excess nutrients in the water will cause algae, plain and simple. There is a reason why so many in the American hobby are constantly battling algae...


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

Axelrodi202 said:


> Yes, 40 ppm is way above what your plants need. I find maintaining 5 ppm is enough even for my tank full of weedy stems. Some other (very accomplished) scapers I know go up to 20 ppm, but I have never seen anyone intentionally maintaining above that.
> 
> Excess nutrients in the water will cause algae, plain and simple. There is a reason why so many in the American hobby are constantly battling algae...


Thanks for the response, i will do a large WC today and try to get it down to a lower level, but even without ferts it creeps back up, could this be the ADA soil still leaching after 3 months ish? Could high nitrates also be the cause for the monte Carlo melting away would you say?


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

Unless you have barely done any water changes and have very few plants AS should not still be leaching after 3 months. Are you using tap water? How is the tank stocked?

One hobbyist I know who does many experiments has seen growth inhibition in some species at >10 ppm NO3. However, I would look at other aspects of your system to find the culprit for the melting before turning to nutrients. Light, CO2, flow patterns, substrate, all the good stuff.


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

Axelrodi202 said:


> Unless you have barely done any water changes and have very few plants AS should not still be leaching after 3 months. Are you using tap water? How is the tank stocked?
> 
> One hobbyist I know who does many experiments has seen growth inhibition in some species at >10 ppm NO3. However, I would look at other aspects of your system to find the culprit for the melting before turning to nutrients. Light, CO2, flow patterns, substrate, all the good stuff.


Within the first month I was doing a few waterchanges per week, now I do one 50% every weekend. I am using Tap water, it is quite soft so i add equilibrium to get it upto about 3-4 ppm, and bicarb to get pH to 7 each water change. I have 6 rummynose, 3 cardinal and 3 glow light tetras, no other fish in this tank.

The light is currently on max as i am experimenting with different levels, although it has been 50% brightness but the BGA actually seemed to grow more so in this period weirdly. CO2 is at 40psi i cant count the bubbles, but after an hour the drop checker is green, and by the end it is lime green/ yellow. 

Flow pattern is from the spray bar, which is at the back of the tank and the flow rolls down the front of the tank across the substrate. I would like to try a nano power head to see if i can get more flow at the back though. And substrate as mentioned is ADA Amazonia, which i can't detect any ammonia at all in my tank, but could be the cause of the nitrate reading. Regards.


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

Does your tap have any nitrate in it? Also your fish stocking is not light, so they could be contributing. I would go several weeks without dosing NO3, testing regularly. 

Do you have any idea as to your par? 

It seems to me your CO2 is way too high if you can't count the bubbles (unless your bubble counter is tiny). On my 120 4 bps is plenty! Hard to believe, but too high CO2 can cause algae issues as well. 

I would go for a laminar flow setup. At the very least have the spraybar on the side. Or better yet forgo the spraybar entirely and just have the j-shaped outlet hanging on the side of the tank in the back or front. On a tank that small it is very unlikely you will need an additional powerhead.

I really doubt your Amazonia is still leaching ammonia.


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

Axelrodi202 said:


> Does your tap have any nitrate in it? Also your fish stocking is not light, so they could be contributing. I would go several weeks without dosing NO3, testing regularly.
> 
> Do you have any idea as to your par?
> 
> ...


Tapwater doesn't have any nope. I will do, i will also test with my new kit as this kit is old and could potentially be giving me a false reading. I hope. 

I don't know my par sorry.

The bubble counter isn't the best, it came bundled with my co2art kit. I can reduce it and monitor it though. 

Flow at the front/ mid of the tank is quite high i would say, the rotalia at the back sways slightly, so there is flow there, not sure about by the roots though as i have rocks, which could be blocking its path alittle.

So the main things to do right now as you suggest is to, reduce co2 and stop dosing NO3 and monitor. If if no changes then i will change spray bar positioning.


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

Yes, try to avoid a yellow drop checker.


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

Axelrodi202 said:


> Yes, try to avoid a yellow drop checker.


Will do! Thank you for the help, will update this thread with my findings.


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## kyle3 (May 26, 2005)

For what it's worth high KNO3 is a common occurrence with traditional EI dosing. I'm another vote for keeping it between 5 and 10 ppm.

also vote to reduce CO2 and light!


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

kyle3 said:


> For what it's worth high KNO3 is a common occurrence with traditional EI dosing. I'm another vote for keeping it between 5 and 10 ppm.
> 
> also vote to reduce CO2 and light!


NO3 is now around 10, CO2 is at 3 bps, and stays green. I also have monitored my PH yesterday and i get a drop of 1 when running the co2. The light is is at about 75%, i can reduce more, but going to see if these changes help it first


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

Sounds like some steps in the right direction!

I will add however, that depending on how bad your BGA was before erythromycin may be necessary. BGA, once extremely established and virulent, will not die down by normal means no matter how much you improve the conditions. But basically the entire tank has to be covered to reach this point.


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

Axelrodi202 said:


> Sounds like some steps in the right direction!
> 
> I will add however, that depending on how bad your BGA was before erythromycin may be necessary. BGA, once extremely established and virulent, will not die down by normal means no matter how much you improve the conditions. But basically the entire tank has to be covered to reach this point.


Indeed, thanks to support on here I might be on the right track! 

I have attached a few images to show my situation with it, its not the worst case of it by any means, but as you said it can be hard to remove it without the help of erythromycin. 


Spoiler


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

How long has it been to that extent?


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

Axelrodi202 said:


> How long has it been to that extent?


Roughly about 2 weeks, i previously had a diatom outbreak, its still mildly present on the glass, but was replaced with BGA ;(


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

Hm, I would seriously consider erythromycin if it's been that widespread for a full 2 weeks.


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

Axelrodi202 said:


> Hm, I would seriously consider erythromycin if it's been that widespread for a full 2 weeks.


I have ordered chemiclean a few days ago, as i couldnt find any erythromycin in the UK that would ship within the next week, hopefully this will work good as other members have said it does.


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## Bloomer (Mar 22, 2014)

Peroxide will get rid of it easily if you clean the tank well. You can use 2-3 ml/gal (one ounce per 10 gal).

Clean the tank well beforehand, including stirring the substrate surface a bit, maybe 1/4 in or so deep with a siphon hose running as you move along, or just do a shallow vacuum. Change at least half the water, no ferts at all, clean the filter, dose peroxide, turn off the lights and CO2, no aeration, wait 24 hours. Should be full of bubbles. 

Vacuum the substrate gently (no point in totally wrecking the bacteria in it), do a large pwc, clean the filter and repeat the peroxide routine. This can be done a third time if needed, but at some point, depending on how good your substrate and biofilter are, the biofilter and substrate bacteria plants need will become affected significantly.

Be sure to bleach the vacuum, buckets, anything else that has come in contact with BGA. Wash your hands well, too. Peroxide is one of the few FDA approved meds for food fish and becomes therapeutic at 5 ml/gal, but you don't need that much. 

BGA is in all tanks, it's part of a healthy ecosystem but gets out of control at times. When I get it, it's because of high organic loads in the tank, no matter how clean it may look and getting the tank clean keeps it under control. But you have to get rid of it first or you'll be fighting it here and there forever. If you want to stock heavy, use lots of ferts and let nature keep your tank clean with infrequent cleanings, it'll come back; it's nature. Large EI pwc's don't do much for cleaning, so generally keep up with maintenance and things should go well.


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

Bloomer said:


> Peroxide will get rid of it easily if you clean the tank well. You can use 2-3 ml/gal (one ounce per 10 gal).
> 
> Clean the tank well beforehand, including stirring the substrate surface a bit, maybe 1/4 in or so deep with a siphon hose running as you move along, or just do a shallow vacuum. Change at least half the water, no ferts at all, clean the filter, dose peroxide, turn off the lights and CO2, no aeration, wait 24 hours. Should be full of bubbles.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your response I have peroxide, but was reading about it and didnt want to risk killing my plants. I am going to try the chemiclean and hope that it removes it, if not then i will for sure try peroxide as you reccomended. I dont expect to be BGA free 100% but would like enough gone so i can enjoy my tank  I think my BGA was due to excess nitrate building up. My plants dont seem to use that much KNO3 currently, so me adding EI was just stacking without it being abosrbed by the plants.


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## Bloomer (Mar 22, 2014)

Chemiclean has worked for me, too. Peroxide is nice because it's cheap and very easy to find. I've never had plant damage from it unless I poured a lot into a bucket to clean plants. Too much gives an effect too much excel does, plants bleach white, look good for a day, then explode, but we're talking no caution at all. In a tank with a known dose, it's been fine and I've used it for years. You could always start with 1 ml/10 gal, that will have an effect but not a large one. 

There are plenty of peroxide horror stories (excel, too) but usually when the details are given, dosing was unknown but very high "Worked great on BGA but killed all the fish. Just poured a whole bottle in, I was so disgusted!" Can't blame them, really.

Dr. Tim's has a bacteria method, a combination of waste away and refresh, his site tells how to do it. That works, too. UV sterilizers help recurrence if it's in the water column but I don't know how to cure it with one. 

The first BGA disaster I had long ago was a real mess, my poor apistos. I was really close to antibiotics but tried peroxide after seeing success in some tfh posts (getting two hobbyists to agree on dosing was a chore) and it worked well. I don't think antibiotics are generally a good idea, they wreck the tank and it takes along time for recovery. Plus as a sage hobbyist kept commenting during my apisto ordeal "You have to keep it from recurring, not just fix it." That's a trick, since BGA can live on most anything but keeping organics down is important.

Something I've used when BGA is localized in the substrate is to inject peroxide below the affected area with a hypo. That can work well and requires less.

Good luck, let us know how things turn out.


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

Bloomer said:


> Chemiclean has worked for me, too. Peroxide is nice because it's cheap and very easy to find. I've never had plant damage from it unless I poured a lot into a bucket to clean plants. Too much gives an effect too much excel does, plants bleach white, look good for a day, then explode, but we're talking no caution at all. In a tank with a known dose, it's been fine and I've used it for years. You could always start with 1 ml/10 gal, that will have an effect but not a large one.
> 
> There are plenty of peroxide horror stories (excel, too) but usually when the details are given, dosing was unknown but very high "Worked great on BGA but killed all the fish. Just poured a whole bottle in, I was so disgusted!" Can't blame them, really.
> 
> ...


 I agree it’s defiantly cheaper! When you say never had plant damage, is that spot treating? or is that a full tank dose? Also is that with the filtration system off, as people suggest doing? I am new to BGA so I'm just trying to absorb all the information I can get 
Regarding antibiotics, you mentioned that it wrecks the tank, how so? I have read that the bacteria can become more immune to future treatments, but hopefully with prevention I can keep the BGA at bay with the areas I have had help to focus on such as the; light, co2, EI and the WC's to reduce the organic buildup. 



Thanks!


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## Bloomer (Mar 22, 2014)

Tank dosing, the only spot treating I've done is substrate injection. I found spot treating leaves uses a lot of peroxide; it's hard to hit your target and get it to stick. Some hobbyists like spraying it; I don't have the time, my methods are all rather easy. Too many tanks.

The plants I fried were in a tub after being pulled for replanting. Know your doses! 

Any medication affects tanks. No med can find the fish and treat just them, the entire water column gets medicated. One of the issues with meds in tanks that aren't really clean is being sure the dose is high enough to treat the fish while it's simultaneously being absorbed by everything else. And then not having a ton of dead microorganisms in the water when the next dose is given. Clean tanks are much easier to treat. 

Antibiotics are in general gram positive or negative (whether a gram stain enters the cell) anaerobic or aerobic after the types of bacteria they attack. Most fish diseases are from gram negative bacteria. Ertyromycin is mostly gram positive but somewhat negative antibiotic that works well on BGA (also a bacteria, cyanobacteria, negative) but kills the biofilter bacteria, negatives. So, the biofilter can be hit by Erythro but maybe not completely since it's stronger on the positive side. Other antibiotics will kill BGA, just erythro works well.

Immunity is a problem with most common antibiotics, oxy and tetra cyclines are really bad from an immunity standpoint because they're broad spectrum and stop one biological process to kill. Both will fry the biofilter. Doxy is the best fish antibiotic today, I've cured bad dropsy with it, but it's very potent and will severely kill off tank bacteria and annihilate the biofilter, best used in QT. It has little immunity so far in the hobby.

If peroxide is used regularly as a cleaner of true algae (works well at low doses) it seems to become less effective. Algae is primitive and probably becomes partly immune, too. I've never seen resistance for BGA, since I usually put more effort into prevention after treating; who wants to treat BGA frequently, it's a pain to do?!

The big hitter, in my experience, is nutrients. No one nutrient grows BGA, it can adapt to eating most anything if it has to. Light doesn't have a big effect on BGA but can affect algae if it's so strong or on so long with insufficient CO2, that the plants can't pull enough nutrients out of the water to outrun algae. I do like your idea of looking at your EI regimen and adjusting down if warranted. Do bigger water changes, it won't hurt the fish if pH and hardness don't change much. 

It takes something like 8 (you can do the math) 50% changes to remove over 95% of the original water, so the typical EI pwc's may give good tests, but tank organisms, dissolved organics, etc. that don't show up can become very high.

I don't know what change/dose schedule you follow, or if carbon is used, but unless almost all the water is removed once in a while, stuff is definitely accumulating. My tanks are all natural with plant substrate and I can grow most anything with just root tabs. Don't get the lush plant beds CO2 users do, but when algae becomes a problem or the plants grow poorly with routine maintenance, cleaning the tank well with a huge water change helps tremendously. That only has to be done once, maybe twice a year.


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

Bloomer said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the information! Spot treatment would probably be useful if BGA was to appear in a small select area in the future, but full tank dosing does seem more suited. I definitely don't want to to be frying any plants, so dosing will be looked into closely! 

You mentioned that erythromycin can make the biofilter take a hit, with regards to this would this result in a mini cycle i presume? I think either antibiotics or peroxide, there will be negatives attached, but to ridden most of the BGA from my tank it is worth a try, with the right information at hand.

Immunity is something that i will avoid as i definitely don't want to be dealing with BGA like this again anytime soon, as you said it's a pain!  

The past few days i have been cleaning, and doing large 50% WC's to keep nitrates low, on Sunday i done two back-to-back 50% changes, which significantly helped reduce my nitrate level. All decaying melting plants have been removed, and old stems have been trimmed, to help combat any high organic buildup.

My WC schedule has always been a 50% on a Saturday, which hasn't resulted in any issues with my previous iterations of this tank, but after delving deeper into plants, CO2 and ferts a few more hurdles have occured. I will show my EI regime tomorrow, although i do not follow it strictly, and currently I am not at all, due to trying to reduce my NO3 levels.

I'm happy to do spend time on large water changes once in awhile for a clean tank  thanks for the help!


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## Kubla (Jan 5, 2014)

I would also recommend hydrogen peroxide. I've used it but I didn't want to do the whole tank treatment. I did research on here and came up with what looked like a safe dosage for the whole tank, then I used 1/2 of that amount. Loaded in a syringe, turned off the filters and sprayed it directly on the affected places. It's very satisfying! I think I did this 3 days in a row and I enjoyed it a little too much. It gave me great pleasure to watch that stinky stuff die! The only thing that was negatively affected was the BGA. The toughest part is remembering to turn the filters back on!

I doubt I used 25 cents worth of peroxide. With a 92 gallon tank I needed about $40 worth of erythromycin with that same end result. For that $40 I got a great assortment of buces from member Bartohog


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

Kubla said:


> I would also recommend hydrogen peroxide. I've used it but I didn't want to do the whole tank treatment. I did research on here and came up with what looked like a safe dosage for the whole tank, then I used 1/2 of that amount. Loaded in a syringe, turned off the filters and sprayed it directly on the affected places. It's very satisfying! I think I did this 3 days in a row and I enjoyed it a little too much. It gave me great pleasure to watch that stinky stuff die! The only thing that was negatively affected was the BGA. The toughest part is remembering to turn the filters back on!
> 
> I doubt I used 25 cents worth of peroxide. With a 92 gallon tank I needed about $40 worth of erythromycin with that same end result. For that $40 I got a great assortment of buces from member Bartohog


 Peroxide does seem very good at removing the BGA, it’s just the dosing I will have to figure out. I have both Chemiclean and peroxide now, so i can go either route, but undecided on which one to try first. If I go the peroxide route then I would want to dose the whole water column, with this I would also run my old filter and shut off my current canister.
Would I simply dose peroxide by first finding the dosing amount for my tank, then shut off current filter, add new filter for flow, turn air pump on, and then perform a WC after say 30 minutes? Or should I leave it longer in the tank? 

I do have java moss, which is full of BGA, as is most of my plants, so I think full tank treatment would be the better option instead of spot treating.


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

Yes, you will have to be very conscious of preventing an ammonia spike after the treatment, with both the biofilter taking a hit and decaying dead BGA. Left unchecked this could result in other algae issues.


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

Axelrodi202 said:


> Yes, you will have to be very conscious of preventing an ammonia spike after the treatment, with both the biofilter taking a hit and decaying dead BGA. Left unchecked this could result in other algae issues.


Ok definitely don't want more algae! , so if i don't have the biofilter attached during treatment, and was to perform a large WC after the treatment and monitor the ammonia, hopefully i can avoid this spike. 

The things i need to find out is the dosage for my tank, and the duration to keep the peroxide in the tank before doing a WC. 

Regards


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

I decided to dose 55ml of 3% peroxide, its slightly under what i should dose for 90l, i read through this thread

I currently see alot of bubbling on the plants, i dont know if this is just from the 50% WC or if the peroxide is going to work on the BGA, hopefully the latter. I seem to be getting hair alage of some sort where there is higher flow, I have attached an image to show this, will the peroxide resolve this also?

I have read that this can take upto 4 days for the BGA to die after the peroxide treatment, is this correct?


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

Today there doesn't seem to be any change in the tank regarding the BGA or the hair algae. I have received my new API test kits, here are the results below:

PO3-4 : 1pm
GH : 3ppm
KH : 2ppm
PH : 6.4 (co2 was on prior to testing)
Ammonia : 0
Nitrate : 5
Temp : 24c

Should i try the dosage again? I was using a powered to distribute the peroxide instead of using my filter.


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## Axelrodi202 (Jul 29, 2008)

Personally I have not had much luck using peroxide as an algae treatment, except as a soak for hardscape.


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## steveo (May 25, 2012)

No mention of Ultralife blue-green slime remover? It gets really good reviews from users on Amazon and other sites. It is supposed to be safe for fish, plants and will not damage the biological filter. Has anyone used this product?

https://www.amazon.com/Ultralife-Gr...ords=ultralife+blue+green+slime+stain+remover


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## Bloomer (Mar 22, 2014)

As mentioned, a damaged biofilter can cause ammonia, then nitrite (that part is often missed and takes longer to regrow) spikes from the filter hit. The substrate heterotrophs can do the same, since they generate ammonia that's eaten by the ammonia and nitrite bacteria; timing on that is not too predictable. Different bacteria at different levels in the substrate metabolize different chemicals. Anaerobes near the bottom eat proteins and feed the metabolites to aerobes farther up; the whole chain is important if you're trying to use the substrate to provide nutrients to plant roots. Healthy substrate bacteria can generate a decent amount of CO2, also.

Spikes are not really that much of a fish concern if Amquel or anything with hydroxymethane sulfonate is used until the spikes settle down. The environmental instability of bacterial die off can make the tank do weird, unpredictable things for a month or two and it's important to not "help" things too much, especially with additives or ferts. 

The peroxide method is in my first post. It needs to sit in the tank for a day or so with no light or aeration. One ounce per 10 gallons is what I've used (~2.8 ml/gal.) I've not used chemiclean and peroxide together and tend to not experiment with tanks that have fish, not sure what will happen with that combo. I've used them sequentially, chemiclean then tank, filter clean with pwc, followed by peroxide, then small pwc. Very clean after that. Haven't seen any fish distress from chemiclean and really haven't heard anything negative about it from diligent hobbyists, just positive results.


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## Bloomer (Mar 22, 2014)

Bubbling is what should be seen, no need to redose until the bubbles decline to almost nothing. Keep the lights off.


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

Axelrodi202 said:


> Personally I have not had much luck using peroxide as an algae treatment, except as a soak for hardscape.


I hope this is not the case for me also, I couldn’t add the Excel as I didn’t have any, but I have picked up a small bottle to re try this at the end of the week if the BGA hasn't improved.


steveo said:


> No mention of Ultralife blue-green slime remover? It gets really good reviews from users on Amazon and other sites. It is supposed to be safe for fish, plants and will not damage the biological filter. Has anyone used this product?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Ultralife-Gr...ords=ultralife+blue+green+slime+stain+remover


Seems like a great product for this scenario, looks a little like chemiclean, not sure if the ingredients are similar though.



Bloomer said:


> As mentioned, a damaged biofilter can cause ammonia, then nitrite (that part is often missed and takes longer to regrow) spikes from the filter hit. The substrate heterotrophs can do the same, since they generate ammonia that's eaten by the ammonia and nitrite bacteria; timing on that is not too predictable. Different bacteria at different levels in the substrate metabolize different chemicals. Anaerobes near the bottom eat proteins and feed the metabolites to aerobes farther up; the whole chain is important if you're trying to use the substrate to provide nutrients to plant roots. Healthy substrate bacteria can generate a decent amount of CO2, also.
> 
> Spikes are not really that much of a fish concern if Amquel or anything with hydroxymethane sulfonate is used until the spikes settle down. The environmental instability of bacterial die off can make the tank do weird, unpredictable things for a month or two and it's important to not "help" things too much, especially with additives or ferts.
> 
> The peroxide method is in my first post. It needs to sit in the tank for a day or so with no light or aeration. One ounce per 10 gallons is what I've used (~2.8 ml/gal.) I've not used chemiclean and peroxide together and tend to not experiment with tanks that have fish, not sure what will happen with that combo. I've used them sequentially, chemiclean then tank, filter clean with pwc, followed by peroxide, then small pwc. Very clean after that. Haven't seen any fish distress from chemiclean and really haven't heard anything negative about it from diligent hobbyists, just positive results.


Thank you for this information, I think I am ok in regards to my beneficial bacteria, tank doesn’t seem cloudy, ammonia is at 0, and nitrate is at 5.

I will slightly up the dose per your recommendation next time as all the fish were fine with this treatment, I don't plan to use chemiclean with the peroxide, I would rather not test that if I’m honest. I think I am going to leave chemiclean as my last resort if the peroxide + excel doesn’t work.



Bloomer said:


> Bubbling is what should be seen, no need to redose until the bubbles decline to almost nothing. Keep the lights off.


I was happy to see the bubbles, and some of the BGA has started peeling off almost, but that could have been due to high flow. Bubbles are not present today, and the BGA is still the dark green colour. The hair algae is also still present and green.


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

Ninja_green said:


> I hope this is not the case for me also, I couldn’t add the Excel as I didn’t have any, but I have picked up a small bottle to re try this at the end of the week if the BGA hasn't improved.
> 
> 
> Seems like a great product for this scenario, looks a little like chemiclean, not sure if the ingredients are similar though.
> ...




If available you could use metricide 14 as an alternative to excel. So that's another option. I bought the metricide 14 in Amazon and got here in 2 days. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Bloomer (Mar 22, 2014)

Ultralife blue-green slime remover works well; seems to be about the same as chemiclean.
I may be misinterpreting some of the comments but, 
Peroxide and excel together could very well cancel each other; ones an oxidizer, one a reducer. I'd advise picking one method, everything I see here should work, and avoid combinations of things; you could easily end up with an unknown chemical soup. BGA isn't algae (spirulina's BGA), so be careful of confusing algae removal with BGA eradication. In my experience, BGA removal has to have a mechanical component (siphoning out as much as is feasible, filter cleaning, etc.) and a chemical component. It's not hard to get rid of, though.


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

Bloomer said:


> Ultralife blue-green slime remover works well; seems to be about the same as chemiclean.
> I may be misinterpreting some of the comments but,
> Peroxide and excel together could very well cancel each other; ones an oxidizer, one a reducer. I'd advise picking one method, everything I see here should work, and avoid combinations of things; you could easily end up with an unknown chemical soup. BGA isn't algae (spirulina's BGA), so be careful of confusing algae removal with BGA eradication. In my experience, BGA removal has to have a mechanical component (siphoning out as much as is feasible, filter cleaning, etc.) and a chemical component. It's not hard to get rid of, though.


I think regarding the peroxide and excel, the way it was recommended was to dose the peroxide, do a watcher change, then dose the excel. The OP for that threat called it one-two punch. Which is apparently more effective due to weakening the BGA with the peroxide then killing it whilst it's weak with the excel. The method seems to have positive responses. 

I wouldn't mix any chemicals incase something was to react, as you mentioned, better safe than sorry.

The BGA is very hard for me to siphon out unless i scrape it off leaves, which for the more delicate leaves it's alot harder.


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

Just a quick update - It has been a week since I done the last peroxide dose then a large WC of about 80% then dosed Excel, I have now got white hair algae, I presume dead? That I need to clean up tomorrow. Most of the BGA on the plants is peeling, and on most of the foreground plants it has gone completely. Some of the background plants still have a bit left on, I’m not sure if to dose again, or to dose Chemiclean? What do you guys think?

I have also added two new plants, Hottonia and some new Monte Carlo from Tropica, so hopefully the Monte Carlo will grow this time around.


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

Ninja_green said:


> Just a quick update - It has been a week since I done the last peroxide dose then a large WC of about 80% then dosed Excel, I have now got white hair algae, I presume dead? That I need to clean up tomorrow. Most of the BGA on the plants is peeling, and on most of the foreground plants it has gone completely. Some of the background plants still have a bit left on, I’m not sure if to dose again, or to dose Chemiclean? What do you guys think?
> 
> I have also added two new plants, Hottonia and some new Monte Carlo from Tropica, so hopefully the Monte Carlo will grow this time around.


Good deal that its almost gone. I would spot dose with excel. And scrape off what you can.


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## Bloomer (Mar 22, 2014)

>>Just a quick update - It has been a week since I done the last peroxide dose then a large WC of about 80% then dosed Excel, I have now got white hair algae, I presume dead? That I need to clean up tomorrow. Most of the BGA on the plants is peeling, and on most of the foreground plants it has gone completely. Some of the background plants still have a bit left on, I’m not sure if to dose again, or to dose Chemiclean? What do you guys think?
I have also added two new plants, Hottonia and some new Monte Carlo from Tropica, so hopefully the Monte Carlo will grow this time around.<<

Yes, the white filamentous algae is dead. Sometimes algae, especially beard, turns pink, then white. It seems to develop resistance as time goes on if peroxide is used too much or relied on to clean algae. pwc's are a better routine method. 

Try to suck out as much BGA as possible, a plain siphon hose is fine and bleach the hose after. 

Dose peroxide again. Chemiclean works best with cleaner tanks, so I'd use it after peroxide #2. The tank should look great afterward. Don't forget to avoid feeding BGA in the future or you'll probably see it again.


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

Bloomer said:


> >>Just a quick update - It has been a week since I done the last peroxide dose then a large WC of about 80% then dosed Excel, I have now got white hair algae, I presume dead? That I need to clean up tomorrow. Most of the BGA on the plants is peeling, and on most of the foreground plants it has gone completely. Some of the background plants still have a bit left on, I’m not sure if to dose again, or to dose Chemiclean? What do you guys think?
> I have also added two new plants, Hottonia and some new Monte Carlo from Tropica, so hopefully the Monte Carlo will grow this time around.<<
> 
> Yes, the white filamentous algae is dead. Sometimes algae, especially beard, turns pink, then white. It seems to develop resistance as time goes on if peroxide is used too much or relied on to clean algae. pwc's are a better routine method.
> ...


Thats great then! Going to do another big clean tomorrow, Nitrate was at 5ppm, so that seems stable. Then ill dose one last time to remove any BGA left. Next hurdle is getting my Monte Carlo to grow


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

I seem to be having a problem with my fish nipping my plants, only seems to be the Monte Carlo and Limnophila hippuridoides that they are interested in. Sometimes the Limnophila hippuridoides can grow fine with long leaves, then suddenly they eat it and I’m left with small leaves as shown in the image. The other image shows the new Monte Carlo, and they have already bit off quite a few smaller leaves sadly. Is there anything I can do to stop this? I feed every day and feed them a small grinded pinch of spirulina flake food, and then a small pinch of Hikari Tropical Micro Pellets. Once or twice I feed them frozen brine shrimp also. Hopefully this information can help


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

Hello all, still no major changes with the algae thankfully, it’s still present a little, but with persistence I think it will go now it’s under control. The thing I want to start doing is dosing EI again, as I stopped due to my high nitrate levels and wanting to rid my tank of BGA. I have attached the guide I was given when I brought the kit, but following that guide I think it’s what led me to high nitrate levels, so want to avoid it this time around. What would you suggest for the dosing of the macros and micros? The instructions for mixing the bottles is what I followed also. Thanks


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

If doing EI you want to make sure you are doing a 50% wc weekly to help rid of any extra nutrients each week. By doing EI your nitrate levels most likely built up and also phosphates which could of and am thinking contributed to your algae. A good thing to do is monitor your nitrate and phosphate levels throughout the week and if you high 40+ nitrates is a good idea to do a 50% wc. This way your levels don't get out of hand again contributing to algae. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Modestlysublime (Jan 11, 2015)

I have a similar problem, so its good to see yours is clearing up. Im a little confused though, reading the thread I get the impression high nitrates were blamed, but when I posted for advice I was told cyanobacteria was caused by low nitrates? Or are bga and cyanobacteria not the same thing?


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## Neobaneo (Feb 7, 2017)

*Try using Maracine*

I too had BGA problem, it got so bad that my plants started to not grow due to the lack of light. I found that just dosing Maracine for the recommend amount of the box is enough to quickly eradicate all of the BGA. honestly i feel this is the only way to go because BGA is a cyanobacteria so its technically speaking not an algae. So even leaving the smallest bit of it can restart the entire bloom. Long story short you want to basically nuke your tank as soon as possible with maracine to sterilize it. luckily Maracine doesn't seem to effect your beneficial bacteria too much. Best of luck


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## Ninja_green (Jan 27, 2017)

clownplanted said:


> If doing EI you want to make sure you are doing a 50% wc weekly to help rid of any extra nutrients each week. By doing EI your nitrate levels most likely built up and also phosphates which could of and am thinking contributed to your algae. A good thing to do is monitor your nitrate and phosphate levels throughout the week and if you high 40+ nitrates is a good idea to do a 50% wc. This way your levels don't get out of hand again contributing to algae.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I think I am going to start with a small dose and see how my parameters are after the week, I will monitor daily to see how the nitrate/ phosphate are doing, as I don’t want them creeping as you mentioned. I tend to do around 70% WC on the weekend, so hopefully I can keep the nitrate in check whilst dosing. I think I need to improve my flow for sure though, as even with large WC's I still get a fair bit of organic build-up towards the back of the tank. 




Modestlysublime said:


> I have a similar problem, so its good to see yours is clearing up. Im a little confused though, reading the thread I get the impression high nitrates were blamed, but when I posted for advice I was told cyanobacteria was caused by low nitrates? Or are bga and cyanobacteria not the same thing?


Mine defiantly gave a great battle, I dimmed my lights to around 70% and just carried out a few peroxide, large WC, then Excel dosing’s. I have read that it can be caused by low nitrates, but in my case the EI dosing regimen was adding too much KNO3 for what my plants were up taking, so at the end of the week I had a large excess of nitrates that most likely helped with the growth of the BGA outbreak.



Neobaneo said:


> I too had BGA problem, it got so bad that my plants started to not grow due to the lack of light. I found that just dosing Maracine for the recommend amount of the box is enough to quickly eradicate all of the BGA. honestly i feel this is the only way to go because BGA is a cyanobacteria so its technically speaking not an algae. So even leaving the smallest bit of it can restart the entire bloom. Long story short you want to basically nuke your tank as soon as possible with maracine to sterilize it. luckily Maracine doesn't seem to effect your beneficial bacteria too much. Best of luck


It definatly slowed down the growth of my plants also  Glad you got rid of it though! Do you have any idea how your outbreak of BGA was caused? I didn't really want to touch chemicals for the dosing, but I agree nuking is the way to go!


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