# Movie: Upbringing of young Taiwan Bees from F1 hybrids



## GarnelenTom (Apr 24, 2012)

Hi all,

i make a video "Upbringing of young Taiwan Bees from F1 hybrids" in german language. Now this video is available in english too.

I wish you much fun watching it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8Yz9_j2L-E&hd=1

greets tom


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

Great video. Thanks for sharing!


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## discus fever (Jun 16, 2010)

Excellent video! What is the thing producing oxygen?


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

discus fever said:


> Excellent video! What is the thing producing oxygen?


I was wondering that too.


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## Loumeer (Feb 13, 2012)

That was awesome and quite informative. I had a few questions if you dont mind.

1) I noticed there was an airline tubing attached to you UGF. What is that for?

2) Where can I get more information on the sifting oxidator?

3) What kind of snails are those?

Thank you.


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## jimko (Aug 17, 2007)

thanks for sharing! I am one step more confident in keeping these shrimp, but not yet ready to jump the gun.


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## h4n (Jan 4, 2006)

loumeer said:


> that was awesome and quite informative. I had a few questions if you dont mind.
> 
> 1) i noticed there was an airline tubing attached to you ugf. What is that for?
> 
> ...


+1...


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## GarnelenTom (Apr 24, 2012)

discus fever said:


> Excellent video! What is the thing producing oxygen?


Thanx 

Oxygen is made from a Söchting Oxydator. Its a very nice thing, it do many good things in a tank, not only 100% O2.

Look here: http://www.oxydator.de

Greets Tom


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## jimko (Aug 17, 2007)

This product is about to make a rebound in the US. It was selling on marinedepot, but was discontinued.


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## h4n (Jan 4, 2006)

jimko said:


> This product is about to make a rebound in the US. It was selling on marinedepot, but was discontinued.


Hahha Yup who's going start carrying it in USA first!!!

-Sent from my Samsung Note, a "Phablet"


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## GarnelenTom (Apr 24, 2012)

Loumeer said:


> That was awesome and quite informative. I had a few questions if you dont mind.
> 
> 1) I noticed there was an airline tubing attached to you UGF. What is that for?
> 
> ...


The tube is a Pressure tube. Each tank is connected to the tube so you have same pressure overall.
I have 3 tubes and all connected to a 1" ring line.


















I know only the german name: Quellblasen Schnecke
I love this snails :icon_mrgr









Greets Tom


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## jimko (Aug 17, 2007)

Pollen? Is that what I think it is?

Is there a specific pollen the shrimp prefer or do you get pollen from any flowering plants?

There is going to a dramatic drop in bee populations, increase in flower sales, and an increase in pharmaceutical sales for allergy relief in the US.


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

jimko: Typically, they mean "bee pollen" - which is often sold as a nutritional supplement. From my experience and personal research, though, there are only a couple specific types that are suitable for use in this hobby.


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## GarnelenTom (Apr 24, 2012)

jimko said:


> Pollen? Is that what I think it is?
> 
> Is there a specific pollen the shrimp prefer or do you get pollen from any flowering plants?


Yes, flower pollen.
I buyed this bio pollen in a german online shop here 

Its a very nice food for young shrimps! Much vitamin, but use only a very little!


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## ohbaby714 (Feb 23, 2011)

http://www.coloradoaquarium.org/pics/oxy.html
Seem pretty simple to make 



h4n said:


> Hahha Yup who's going start carrying it in USA first!!!
> 
> -Sent from my Samsung Note, a "Phablet"


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## Polarize (Jul 17, 2011)

Now I'm tempted to try feeding some of my bee pollen to my shrimp...


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## GarnelenTom (Apr 24, 2012)

ohbaby714 said:


> http://www.coloradoaquarium.org/pics/oxy.html
> Seem pretty simple to make


Sorry, this is extremly selfmade [censored][censored][censored][censored]. I hope my english is enough to say why:

The Söchting Oxydator's stand ceramics is split the hydrogen peroxide's oxygen to a atomic level. This is never reached with selfmade Oxydators. This is the reason, why this Oxydators do alot more as 100% oxygen in water.
Really, this tool is a blessing for shrimp tanks.


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## ohbaby714 (Feb 23, 2011)

Not trying to devalue anyone product, and i'm sure most of the time quality of product is a reflection of price.


Thank again for posting and explain how the ceramic help in the process, maybe i can some how incorporate the ceramic dish to it  

Do you know if anyone selling them in the state?




GarnelenTom said:


> Sorry, this is extremly selfmade [censored][censored][censored][censored]. I hope my english is enough to say why:
> 
> The Söchting Oxydator's stand ceramics is split the hydrogen peroxide's oxygen to a atomic level. This is never reached with selfmade Oxydators. This is the reason, why this Oxydators do alot more as 100% oxygen in water.
> Really, this tool is a blessing for shrimp tanks.


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## jimko (Aug 17, 2007)

GarnelenTom said:


> Yes, flower pollen.
> I buyed this bio pollen in a german online shop here
> 
> Its a very nice food for young shrimps! Much vitamin, but use only a very little!





ohbaby714 said:


> http://www.coloradoaquarium.org/pics/oxy.html
> Seem pretty simple to make


Thanks for the Clarification!!! Much appreciated. 

I have a lot to learn from you Tom. Thanks for sharing your experience with this community.


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## jczernia (Apr 16, 2010)

Thank you for shearing


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## thechibi (Jan 20, 2012)

Oer. I need to work harder on my German. Some kind of bubble snail. But I totally want that snail.  And the video was awesome.

OH. A bladder snail. I think. Don't quote me. Geez, where's my dictionary when I need it.


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## triscene (Apr 7, 2012)

not sure whether it is just local name of this snail but we call it Physa or with Z. Have many of them in my tank.


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## golfwang (Nov 15, 2011)

Great video for new shrimp hobbyists thanks for sharing

Sent from my HTC Sensation using Tapatalk 2


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## Jorge_Burrito (Nov 10, 2010)

GarnelenTom said:


> Sorry, this is extremly selfmade [censored][censored][censored][censored]. I hope my english is enough to say why:
> 
> The Söchting Oxydator's stand ceramics is split the hydrogen peroxide's oxygen to a atomic level. This is never reached with selfmade Oxydators. This is the reason, why this Oxydators do alot more as 100% oxygen in water.
> Really, this tool is a blessing for shrimp tanks.


I don't want to get into a chemistry argument with a person who does not speak English as his primary language, that wouldn't quite seem fair, but I don't think you are quite correct on your explanation. H202 will decompose into "atomic oxygen" and water spontaneously. I have shown the decomposition reaction below. This reaction takes place on its own without an external force or additional chemicals needed to drive it.

2 H2O2 --> 2 H2O + O2

It is a fairly slow reaction though and may not release as much oxygen as you would like into your tank. This is where the ceramic comes in as it acts as a catalyst to speed the reaction up so more oxygen is released. The ceramic is probably Manganese Dioxide based and allows a faster breakdown of the hydrogen peroxide into oxygen and water. The lead weights in the linked homemade reactor are providing the same service as the ceramic, though...they are acting as a catalyst to speed up the reaction. Now the Oxydator clearly looks a lot nicer and I am sure quite a bit of studying has gone in to figure out optimal catalyst levels to give adequate formation of oxygen (without producing too much), but functionally there is no difference between what the homemade system and the Oxydator is doing. Certainly, there is no difference in the "type" of oxygen being formed, both are forming atomic oxygen (as well as water).

~Jorge_Burrito, Ph.D. (in Chemistry)

P.S. Sorry for all the people whose eyes just glossed over reading that, bad claims of chemistry is a pet peeve.

Also those snails are pretty awesome looking.


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

If you had a pressurized O2 system, would this achieve the same effect? Just a lot more expensive?


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## Senior Shrimpo (Dec 4, 2010)

jkan0228 said:


> If you had a pressurized O2 system, would this achieve the same effect? Just a lot more expensive?


Well it seems pretty easy to overdose... that little oxygenator thing is only giving out the tiniest stream of bubbles and to spend money on an O2 system for that would be kinda silly.

I'd be more worried about the shrimp dying from too much oxygen. The water either wouldn't be able to hold all the gas and it would just not dissolve into the air or it would dissolve to unsafe levels for the shrimp.


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## acitydweller (Dec 28, 2011)

Could this not be achieved by adding an airstone?

Just wanted to add, Thanks for sharing this video. Just love seeing how others around the world care for these magnificient little creatures. Makes me want to get some blue shrimp


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

With an airstone comes surface agitation.



acitydweller said:


> Could this not be achieved by adding an airstone?


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

somewhatshocked said:


> With an airstone comes surface agitation.


Which is only a problem if you're adding CO2. If you don't add CO2, agitation doesn't matter much.


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## GarnelenTom (Apr 24, 2012)

Jorge_Burrito said:


> I don't want to get into a chemistry argument with a person who does not speak English as his primary language, that wouldn't quite seem fair, but I don't think you are quite correct on your explanation. H202 will decompose into "atomic oxygen" and water spontaneously. I have shown the decomposition reaction below. This reaction takes place on its own without an external force or additional chemicals needed to drive it.
> 
> 2 H2O2 --> 2 H2O + O2
> 
> ...


I understand and think you are right Jorge, thanx!


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## Senior Shrimpo (Dec 4, 2010)

acitydweller said:


> Could this not be achieved by adding an airstone?
> 
> Just wanted to add, Thanks for sharing this video. Just love seeing how others around the world care for these magnificient little creatures. Makes me want to get some blue shrimp


Nahh, what this oxygenator is accomplishing is it makes pure O2 gas. The chemical reaction insures it is pure.

Airstones are great and they really help, I have two in my 30 gallon alone, they raise oxygen in the tank but also add in other gases from the atmosphere (eh is that the right word? I'm tempted to say atmosphere haha) which aren't as good as pure oxygen.


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## Jorge_Burrito (Nov 10, 2010)

Senior Shrimpo said:


> Nahh, what this oxygenator is accomplishing is it makes pure O2 gas. The chemical reaction insures it is pure.
> 
> Airstones are great and they really help, I have two in my 30 gallon alone, they raise oxygen in the tank but also add in other gases from the atmosphere (eh is that the right word? I'm tempted to say atmosphere haha) which aren't as good as pure oxygen.


You more or less got it. Having a pure source of oxygen that looks like it delivers a very fine mist of bubbles is going to help to get more oxygen in the water versus an airpump with a stone, basically analogous to all the work that goes on to get CO2 to dissolve in water for people that run high tech setups. Of course, there is roughly 20% oxygen present in the atmosphere and you are pumping a lot of air through the system with an airpump so I am not sure how it all balances out. The other gases from the atmosphere aren't going to cause any harm. It would be interesting to do some studies of dissolved oxygen on an aquarium running an Oxydator or similar device versus one running an airstone and see if their is any difference.

One potential advantage of the Oxydator is it appears to continually release very small amounts of hydrogen peroxide (not just oxygen) into the water. Peroxides before they are decomposed are very strong oxidizers which have some benefits for water quality, although I would be a little wary of long term exposure effects on the shrimp as peroxides will also attack living tissue.


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

Wouldn't the continual release of hydrogen peroxide kill some of the beneficial bacteria in the system? You always have to give up something to gain something else.


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## Jorge_Burrito (Nov 10, 2010)

Nevermind, I just read the website again, I was wrong about it releasing pure hydrogen peroxide.


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## GarnelenTom (Apr 24, 2012)

I use the 6% hydrogen peroxide. Good experiences are made here in the summer months. Less deaths in the hot season reported in forums.


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## madness (Jul 31, 2011)

Hey Jorge you sort of buried the lead on your chemistry explanation.

If you start with the whole phd in chemistry thing more people might take it seriously enough to read through it.


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## madness (Jul 31, 2011)

GarnelenTom said:


> I use the 6% hydrogen peroxide. Good experiences are made here in the summer months. Less deaths in the hot season reported in forums.


Most people have come to agree that increased oxygen levels in Taiwan Bee tanks are highly beneficial.

They are just discussing what the difference might be between using airstones and using these ceramic things to introduce pure O2.

Either way, thank you for sharing.

What little German I learned in school was a LONG time ago (I think that y'all may still have been Prussian at the time...might have even been before the Romans started fighting the Germanic tribes).  I would feel like a total geek if I had any of my German friends try and translate any of this stuff for me so it is always appreciated when someone shares more detailed information on German shrimp keeping with us English speaking folk.


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## MsNemoShrimp (Apr 25, 2011)

So in terms of getting more oxygen into the water, is it better to use a very fine airstone (like a co2 diffuser attached to an airpump) or add an extra small filter with lots of surface agitation via spraybar?


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## jameshill247 (Apr 2, 2012)

so i just keep cherrys and i guess they are not as sensitive but i was thinking of maybe getting a cheap air can style co2 set about £7 you know the ones you press the can down and it releases and fills the chamber up and i think you press it like 2 times a day or something to keep it topped up? i could be wrong  bad side is when your away it wont keep topped up

but... i just have java moss and xmas moss that grows pretty fast anyway (also made about £20 on trimmings of it put on ebay so far) so i was thinking a little co2 could help  

i do run a sponge filter and an airstone as well so the water is pretty agitated would that make a difference to the co2? i have never thought about it till reading this thread and would the o2 being pumped in to the water through the airstone and filter make a difference?

i do like the sound of a co2 diffuser for an airstone cos they look nicer the ceramic ones and the bubbles are very fine guess that would help to dissolve it quicker?


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

Senior Shrimpo said:


> Well it seems pretty easy to overdose... that little oxygenator thing is only giving out the tiniest stream of bubbles and to spend money on an O2 system for that would be kinda silly.
> 
> I'd be more worried about the shrimp dying from too much oxygen. The water either wouldn't be able to hold all the gas and it would just not dissolve into the air or it would dissolve to unsafe levels for the shrimp.


Too much oxygen? LOL. No. You'll never over saturate your water with oxygen to the point of killing livestock.


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## Senior Shrimpo (Dec 4, 2010)

OverStocked said:


> Too much oxygen? LOL. No. You'll never over saturate your water with oxygen to the point of killing livestock.


Hehe didn't mean to say that >.> I probably meant co2 or hydrogen peroxide but I don't remember that was from a while ago.


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## sunyang730 (Jan 30, 2012)

I watch the video, and I have a question about the UGF. There are may holes around the air tube area. Why is that? Or does anyone know?


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## michael09 (Nov 12, 2012)

Can some one tell me do we just feed bee pollen to shrimp or we has to cook first then feed them?


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Bee pollen can be fed raw.


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## sbarbee54 (Jan 12, 2012)

I feed it raw myself, I crush it up in a fine powder and treat it like baby shrimp food or other additives. My shrimp do not go nuts like people say they do for it though. If I put a lump of it in a feeding dish and on the other side of the tank put a baby spinach leaf the swarm the leaf. Or even if I put my GEOCHEM white pellet on the other side they would swarm that instead too


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## Hmoobthor (Aug 15, 2011)

that one crazy setup!


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## michael09 (Nov 12, 2012)

Thank you guy..


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## Soothing Shrimp (Nov 9, 2011)

Yepper. I treat it as baby food, however the adults will eat it, too.


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