# Tired of 50% weekly water changes



## zackariah (Jan 17, 2013)

I'm sure this has been covered I'm just having trouble finding a thread. I'm tired of 50% water changes. I'm getting ready to set up a 240g with a 70g sump. I already have a 26g and a 70g. That's alot of water every week to change. I know there are other ways to dose and not change so much water weekly. Could someone please advise or link me to the correct thread. Thanks in advance 

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## York1 (Dec 18, 2014)

PPS-Pro


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## klibs (May 1, 2014)

simply dose less and monitor your tank

there is no exact science to this... EI itself is simply a guide that should probably not be taken literally. most would be surprised how little I dose in my high tech tank. i still perform 50% weekly WC

your plants' reactions / nutrient levels in your water should be used as a guide. of course if you have a heavily stocked tank then you may not be able to keep nitrates in check without large water changes anyways. i am assuming this is not the case

i would aim for a 50% change every few weeks or a smaller 10-20% change each week... depends on what your situation is with water change setup, fish stocking, plants, etc... if i had a tank that large there is no way i would run it any way other than lower maintenance... that is a ton of water to change. you should also get a 'system' set up for doing WC on tank that large... plumb something outside your home so you can drain directly outdoors, rig up something to easily be able to fill tank, etc...

As someone who has 2 similarly sized tank I can do WC on all of my tank in under an hour and a half each week. on a tank that is 240g I would not even bother unless i had a LEGIT setup to perform WC. plumbing directly to the outside, easy setup to fill tank from water supply, etc... that is a tremendous amount of water to move. you will want it to be relatively 'automated'. i would set the tank up so i almost never had to vacuum the substrate, just drain water out, fill tank back up. done

basically... planning now will save you MANY hours in the long run


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

zackariah said:


> I'm sure this has been covered I'm just having trouble finding a thread. I'm tired of 50% water changes. I'm getting ready to set up a 240g with a 70g sump. I already have a 26g and a 70g. That's alot of water every week to change. I know there are other ways to dose and not change so much water weekly. Could someone please advise or link me to the correct thread. Thanks in advance
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


Just curious - what part of the 50% water change do you not like? 
The amount of water required?
Carrying many 5 gallon buckets of water?
The amount of time it takes using your current method?

The reason I ask is I have a few, some what over the top friends who have found them selves in need of changing a lot of water each week. One in particular has about 2,200 gallons of water contained within aquariums. Now he does not change 50% each week, but he is probably averaging atleast 25%. Needless to say, he has developed some interesting ways to speed up the process.

FYI, this is just one of his many tanks (your welcome Stan) https://www.facebook.com/sweat.iowacity/videos/1839413446315068/


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## zackariah (Jan 17, 2013)

Thanks for the pointers. As far as what I'm tired of, it's the time it takes and the amount of RO water involved. I spoke to a rep from air water & ***. He told me I would either need a giant Rodi system or change out the filters every 3 months. I also Live in southern California we have the whole drought thing so I feel slightly guilty. 

I can definitely develop a system to reduce the time involved. I have thought about getting a couple 55g drums and using a pump to pump the water straight in. 

I understand the E in EI is estimated. And there is no exact amount as all tanks are different. I will try the less ferts approach with smaller water changes and see how that works for me as well as investing in the drums. Then I'll be ready for my typhoon extreme so I no longer have to lug water containers to the vending machine. 

The above link did not work it said it was temporarily down. Or I don't have permissions. Or the link is broken

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## IntotheWRX (May 13, 2016)

zackariah said:


> I'm sure this has been covered I'm just having trouble finding a thread. I'm tired of 50% water changes. I'm getting ready to set up a 240g with a 70g sump. I already have a 26g and a 70g. That's alot of water every week to change. I know there are other ways to dose and not change so much water weekly. Could someone please advise or link me to the correct thread. Thanks in advance
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


It's all about finding that balance. having a good equilibrium in your eco system going on in your tank. 

1. have good ratio of plants and bio load (fish poop). the ratio should be lush plants to a fish population that's not crowded.

2. keep your lights at a gentle pace. Maybe have them turn on for 4-7 hours a day. then look at your plants to see if there are any deficiencies and add as you go. adding too much fertz in your water causes balance to fall off and algae to grow easy

I have a 9 gallon running for the past year and I only have done a 50% water change 2-3 time. lights running two 4hr light periods a day. i will change 20% of the water every month or so. I clean my algae once a month or so. 

dont listen to people telling you to change 50% of your water every week when you don't need to. If your tank is balanced you only need to change it 2-3 times a year.


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## Zorfox (Jun 24, 2012)

Sure you can do it if you don't mind water testing. Actually, that was the reason EI was devised. To eliminate water testing.

I also have a 240 gallon to setup. I still haven't decided what to do. High tech is nice but it will take a lot more time for maintenance. The water changes for me really aren't a big deal. On the other hand, cleaning and trimming 240 gallons of high tech real estate? 

The reason I say this is to remind you that low tech with an enriched substrate like dirt is always an option. One that I'm seriously considering. Not all tanks require tons of fertilizing.


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## zackariah (Jan 17, 2013)

I have been strongly considering doing dirt for my 240.

I'm down to test water regularly. I test my pool every other day. I actually look forward to learning this new to me method.

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## Bananableps (Nov 6, 2013)

Gotta go Walstad. There are scores of people who experience no issues keeping low-bioload dirted tanks with infrequent water changes. Some aquarists do no formal water changes at all, only removing a gallon or two of tank water every day to give to house plants. I only do about one water change a month, often much less: my fish breed like crazy and my plants grow beautifully.

There are right ways and wrong ways to go about this, so if you intend to reduce water changes, I highly recommend that you read Diana Walstad's Ecology of the Planted Aquarium. This book is tells you why and how you can keep an aquarium with infrequent water changes. 





Immortal1 said:


> One in particular has about 2,200 gallons of water contained within aquariums. Now he does not change 50% each week, but he is probably averaging atleast 25%. Needless to say, he has developed some interesting ways to speed up the process.


Christ that's a ton of water down the drain. I hope they don't live in the south west.


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## Immortal1 (Feb 18, 2015)

LOL, no he actually lives in Iowa City, IA. Water is pretty cheap there. Sorry the link did not work for some - basically it's a video of a 240-280 gallon acrylic tank with a huge arowana, 2 red tail cat fish, 2 tiger shovelnose catfish, a large knife fish and a couple of shark looking fish (I really dont know all the monster fish he keeps, but needless to say he keeps a lot of really big fish).


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

zackariah said:


> I understand the E in EI is estimated. And there is no exact amount as all tanks are different. I will try the less ferts approach with smaller water changes and see how that works for me as well as investing in the drums.


I'll share my hi-tech approach.
PPS-Pro as prescribed is not enough ferts for success IMO.
With two high tech tanks that have enough fish to supply NO3 I mix up the Nitrate -Free PPS-Pro mix and dose both tanks to 1ppm of PO4 (API test just barely shows blue).
Testing PO4 & NO3 has led me to the weekly needs of both tanks.

Tank 1 is a 40L and I change about 6 gallons every two weeks.
Tank 2 is a 75 and I only top off as needed, changing 12 gallons every quarter.

Tank 2 shows the best growth at all times.
Been doing this for 1.5 years now as a test.


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## evil nick (Oct 20, 2014)

why are you using RO water in freshwater?


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## klibs (May 1, 2014)

yeah, is there a good reason you need to use RO/DI water? I understand the benefits but for large setups this hardly seems worth it... i am assuming you would not go high tech in a tank that large anyways so water parameters would not be as important?

again, if you are tackling some of the more tedious aspects of the hobby (RO/DI, high tech setup / demanding plants, etc...) you are going to spend a ton of time and $$$ on a tank that large. if i had tank that large (it will happen one day) i would just accept tap water unless it is totally unusable, go low tech / low maintenance, set up plumbing to/from the tank for easy WC, etc... make it as easy as possible. honestly if i couldn't use tap i would not even bother


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## zackariah (Jan 17, 2013)

evil nick said:


> why are you using RO water in freshwater?


There are many species that require specific water types in fresh water. If you want discus, altum angels, crystal red shrimp etc. In general they do not do well in water like mine. My tap has a TDS of 400+ my hardness is 15+. I know there are a few people that have made it work but that is few and far between. 

I am doing my homework before setting up my big tank to limit the amount of work it will take for all my tanks.This thread has been very informative. I really appreciate all the input. I plan to practice the methods mentioned over the next few months on my other tanks. I'm hoping to have my big tank set up by September. 

So others may benefit I will try my best to document on this thread how it all works out. I'll try the lower fertilizing on one tank and pps on the other. On my large tank the walstad method sounds very appealing.

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## evil nick (Oct 20, 2014)

zackariah said:


> There are many species that require specific water types in fresh water. If you want discus, altum angels, crystal red shrimp etc. In general they do not do well in water like mine. My tap has a TDS of 400+ my hardness is 15+. I know there are a few people that have made it work but that is few and far between.
> 
> I am doing my homework before setting up my big tank to limit the amount of work it will take for all my tanks.This thread has been very informative. I really appreciate all the input. I plan to practice the methods mentioned over the next few months on my other tanks. I'm hoping to have my big tank set up by September.
> 
> ...


ah, thats pretty hard tap water. Youd be better off getting a water softening system for your house over using RO all the time lol. 
My tank is slightly dirted. I will offer one piece of (MY OWN) advice. Dont use as much soil as most methods say. I started my tank with the 2" most stay and ended up with MAYBE 1/4 to 1/2 an inch of dirt then mostly black diamond. Very nice looking stuff.... I mean while you can see it before its covered in plants. 
It was really hard for me to get my levels under control, pre fish, with that much dirt. I broke down the tank and removing the soil was one of the most disgusting (that smell) things I even had to do. 

good luck, hope it all works out. Look at my sig and videos. I piped my canister to remove the water and then have a long collapsible hose to refill hooked up to my utility (or any) sink.


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## Eric Mraz (May 17, 2016)

My tds is over 600, and my nitrates are over 80ppm. I use a water softener with nitrate removal resins. The softener will drop nitrates down to 7ppm. I have 40+ discus and my daughter has 100+ fancy guppies in that water with no issues. My 460g tank I use constant drip fed water change system, and never vacuum the substrate at all. Only thing i do is clean the glass. Unless you have a salt water tank I don't see a reason to use ro water.


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## zackariah (Jan 17, 2013)

Eric Mraz said:


> My tds is over 600, and my nitrates are over 80ppm. I use a water softener with nitrate removal resins. The softener will drop nitrates down to 7ppm. I have 40+ discus and my daughter has 100+ fancy guppies in that water with no issues. My 460g tank I use constant drip fed water change system, and never vacuum the substrate at all. Only thing i do is clean the glass. Unless you have a salt water tank I don't see a reason to use ro water.


What's the TDS afterwards? What's your before and after PH? 

On a side note you should contact your city. The Max amount of TDS allowed according to the EPA is 500 ppm. Also the Max nitrate ppm is 10.


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

Just use tap water and fishes suitable for that water if it is lower maint that is the goal.
Fishes and plant's will thank you.
Once you start mucking about with water chemistry(ie) softener's,R/O, buffer's,replacing the mineral's removed with same mineral's required by plant's,replacing R/O membranes, possibly storing larger volumes of water,testing TDS,GH,Kh, Nutrient levels,,,then low maint goes out the window.
Low tech ,lower light energy,non CO2 enhanced dirted tank would be my path for 240 gal tank.
Once I felt I had good grasp on this method,,then I may or may not consider high tech.higher light energy,CO2 enhanced method.
Would not try and mix method's or plant's for differing type method's,nor try driving growth with gob's of light in ANY method.
Take it from an old algae grower and fishkeeper.


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## zackariah (Jan 17, 2013)

While I was waiting for my pps pro from nilocg. I just dosed a little bit every day alternating macros and micros. So far it worked no water change for two weeks. Plants and fish are doing good. 

But now it's time to mix my ferts. I have never seen mgso4. Why is this in pps pro and not EI? Do I add the mgso4? If following the recipe for 500ml. How much iron do add?


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## Eric Yan (Feb 28, 2017)

Bananableps said:


> Gotta go Walstad. There are scores of people who experience no issues keeping low-bioload dirted tanks with infrequent water changes. Some aquarists do no formal water changes at all, only removing a gallon or two of tank water every day to give to house plants. I only do about one water change a month, often much less: my fish breed like crazy and my plants grow beautifully.
> 
> There are right ways and wrong ways to go about this, so if you intend to reduce water changes, I highly recommend that you read Diana Walstad's Ecology of the Planted Aquarium. This book is tells you why and how you can keep an aquarium with infrequent water changes.
> 
> ...


I'm so happy to read your post because I finally know the method I've been aware of is called Walstad. It's introduced to me many years ago by the LFS person but he never to me there's a whole system for it. I thought he get this by his own experience (maybe he did, who knows). Anyhow, I think this is the perfect system for me and many other people because of the low maintenance. Do any people know what's the drawbacks of this method?


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## steveo (May 25, 2012)

zackariah said:


> While I was waiting for my pps pro from nilocg. I just dosed a little bit every day alternating macros and micros. So far it worked no water change for two weeks. Plants and fish are doing good.
> 
> But now it's time to mix my ferts. I have never seen mgso4. Why is this in pps pro and not EI? Do I add the mgso4? If following the recipe for 500ml. How much iron do add?



Just noticed that nilocg has an out of date recommendation for dosing of micro nutrients using the PPS-pro system. On their web site, it is still noted to use 40 grams of CSM+B, dosing at 1ml per every 10 gallons. They do provide a link to Aquatic Plant Central's website, where Edward developed the the PP-pro system. On that site, the new rate for micros is listed as 28.6 grams of CSM+B, dosing at a much lesser rate than the prior 1 ml per 10 gallons. A 50% weekly water change is now recommended for the PPS pro system.


http://nilocg.com/dosing/#pps

https://sites.google.com/site/aquaticplantfertilizer/home/pps-pro


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## Bobbybills (Nov 30, 2015)

zachariah, I have spent the last 2 years attempting to find a solution to the same problem although with a 90 gallon tank and a TDS over 700 out of the tap. For me, RO is a must for keeping the type of fish I want. Soft water species such as apistogramma, rams, congo tetras etc.

Make no mistake, there is a difference between a planted tank with fish and a fish tank with plants. Most of the best manicured tanks with plants in perfect formation have small schooling type fish instead of home wreckers like pleco's and catfish. There is a difference between soft water plants and fish and hard water plants and fish. Someone said that they have Discus and guppies living in the same water parameters but that is very unusual since Discus require soft water and guppies medium to hard water.

If you can live with hard water plants and fish, then you can use a hose directly off the faucet without any filter or remediation and limit the dosing which will make water changes reasonable. I have no experience with low maintenance tanks so I cannot comment, except to say that limiting light and nutrients limits growth which can be a good thing unless you are growing plants for sales as a business. 

Lastly, I do follow PPS Pro but have been changing the doses and ingredients for the simple reason that no tank is the same in terms of plant load and fish load, as well as feeding habits. I want 50-70 fish to grow quickly so I feed heavy and often, TDS rises even when I stop dosing. Start with 1/2 the recommendations and watch the TDS, but remember that dissolved solids are mostly inorganic but are affected by organic waste such as dead leaves and pollutants. A heavy fish load with heavy feeding will increase TDS with some plant nutrients as someone just posted but only experimentation and testing will determine how much to remove from your dosage. That is the beauty of EI and PPS Pro, don't worry about rising levels if you can do regular water changes with water that meets your needs. The difference between the two are like Android and Iphone, adherents will argue for their side but both add nutrients then remove the excess. Sort of like putting stain on too heavy then ragging off what is not absorbed by the wood, and different wood absorbs differently and the shade you want determines how long to leave the stain on.


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## zackariah (Jan 17, 2013)

Good analogy at the end. And thanks for the help. It's all a science experiment. I know I'll come up with some kinda Balance. As of right now I have doubled the time between water changes. Now my next step will be getting a reliable two channel doser.

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## Dman911 (Nov 24, 2016)

Eric Yan said:


> I'm so happy to read your post because I finally know the method I've been aware of is called Walstad. It's introduced to me many years ago by the LFS person but he never to me there's a whole system for it. I thought he get this by his own experience (maybe he did, who knows). Anyhow, I think this is the perfect system for me and many other people because of the low maintenance. Do any people know what's the drawbacks of this method?


There are arguably no drawbacks or several drawbacks depending on your personal goals. I would suggest finding material written by Diana Walstad as she is the one who literally wrote the book on it. Just as Tom Barr is considered one of if not the greatest authority of high tech tanks she considered the same in regards to low tech tanks although I would say both have a great understanding of aquariums as a whole.

Dan


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

steveo said:


> Just noticed that nilocg has an out of date recommendation for dosing of micro nutrients using the PPS-pro system. On their web site, it is still noted to use 40 grams of CSM+B, dosing at 1ml per every 10 gallons. They do provide a link to Aquatic Plant Central's website, where Edward developed the the PP-pro system. On that site, the new rate for micros is listed as 28.6 grams of CSM+B, dosing at a much lesser rate than the prior 1 ml per 10 gallons. A 50% weekly water change is now recommended for the PPS pro system.


A huge debate rounded the web on Micro-Toxicity some time ago(year maybe).
Fact or Fiction? I am not sure. Is it truly proven(No).
Many reduced their micro dosing substantially, some did not follow.
Neither Good nor Bad I have chosen to half the original dosing.


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## zackariah (Jan 17, 2013)

Okay I have found the answer to all fertilizing needs!










.......mic drop


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