# RCS turning white and dying



## Kadina (Feb 13, 2009)

I received 20 RCS from a seller on here last week and put them in the following tank:

-5.5g
-Toms Rapids Mini Canister filter with a bag of bio material from an established tank in one side and a new sponge in the other side. I also have a sponge over the intake tube
-13W Perch clip on light on timer for 9 hrs / day
-50W Stealth Pro heater set at 76 degrees
-Black flourite substrate
-Crypts and java ferns from my established tanks
-Manzanita wood

The shrimp were mailed out on Saturday and arrived at my house on Wednesday. I didn't feed the shrimp at all for the first three days but I saw them scavenging all over the place picking at things. On Saturday I dropped in 3 pellets of Hikari shrimp cuisine. I noticed that the shrimp were not swimming around as much and some of them were turning a milky white color.

Sunday morning I woke to find 4 shrimp dead and totally white. I tested the water to see what was going on.

ph: 6.4
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 10 
Copper: 0

I did a 25% water change using tap (well) water which has a nitrate level of 5.

This morning I noticed a few more are starting to turn that milky white color and I am concerned they will be dead when I get home from work. Does anyone have any idea what is going on? Suggestions? 

Thanks!


----------



## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

6.4 seems low to me, but I heard that RCS can live anywhere from 6.4 to 8 ph.

What's the gh and kh for it? Anything else you did other then the water change? Did you slowly introduce your tank water to them?


----------



## fishsandwitch (Apr 20, 2008)

Milky white allways leads to death, though somtimes they can survive allmost a month like that.

It is because of bad water conditions, with 5 days in the mail that could have done it, but also well water can be high in heavy metals which also could have done it. 
6.4 PH from well water is not normal, do you have a softener?


----------



## Kadina (Feb 13, 2009)

I can test the gh and kh tonight. The shrimp were acclimated over about 30 minutes when I received them. My well water is typically between 6.4 and 6.8, but it does fluctuate. I test it periodically because of my aquariums. I also test the water with a TDS meter but I haven't done it lately. I don't think we have a water softener, but I will have to ask my husband to be sure.


----------



## Eden Marel (Jan 28, 2010)

I don't think it is your pH, my pH goes down to 6.5 when I put in a new bottle of DIY CO2, for the first couple of weeks and my CO2 messes with my normal pH, so my pH in the tank is always changing and I've had my RCS since Feb 14. But I got them locally from Noahma, so they didn't get as much transportation stress.

Probably not the food unless it has gone bad as I feed the same thing as well, though I should really start counting individual pellets out for each shrimp instead of putting a pinch in.

It might not have acclimate them long enough. I did the whole acclimate thing just for the RCS for 1 hour and 30 minutes, cuz I had so much bad luck with keeping Ghost Shrimp i got scared the RCS would die. Normally I don't do it at all for my fish besides floating them for 30 minutes for the temp regulations.

I also heard adults are more likely to die than juvies because of the whole parameters difference and transportation stress.


----------



## fishsandwitch (Apr 20, 2008)

Eden Marel said:


> I don't think it is your pH, my pH goes down to 6.5 when I put in a new bottle of DIY CO2, for the first couple of weeks and my CO2 messes with my normal pH, so my pH in the tank is always changing and I've had my RCS since Feb 14. But I got them locally from Noahma, so they didn't get as much transportation stress.


Lower ph from co2 is completely different than low PH from a lack of hardness.

But I agree thats not the problem though a higher PH would be better.


----------



## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

I agree with fish. pH has never been an issue with my RCS. These shrimp can live in just about anything.

From what I know, well water can sometimes have high amounts of dissolved minerals in some places, and people still use conditioners at times with it as a precaution. Test the gh and kh as soon as you can. 30 minutes seems a little sort to acclimate them to your water to me. I do a "drip" acclimate, not sure if you do. But I take some regular tubing, tie a knot in it so it drips about 1 drop per 3 seconds, put the shrimp with the water they arrived in in a bowl, and let it slowly drip for about 1-2 hours before actually putting them in the tank. With my other shrimp, blue tigers, I was told to do this overnight by the seller cause they are more sensitive.

But then again, my first time buying RCS, I just dumped them in my tank (didn't know to acclimate) and they were all fine and bred like crazy.


----------



## fishsandwitch (Apr 20, 2008)

msnikkistar said:


> I agree with fish. pH has never been an issue with my RCS. These shrimp can live in just about anything.
> 
> From what I know, well water can sometimes have high amounts of dissolved minerals in some places, and people still use conditioners at times with it as a precaution. Test the gh and kh as soon as you can. 30 minutes seems a little sort to acclimate them to your water to me. I do a "drip" acclimate, not sure if you do. But I take some regular tubing, tie a knot in it so it drips about 1 drop per 3 seconds, put the shrimp with the water they arrived in in a bowl, and let it slowly drip for about 1-2 hours before actually putting them in the tank. With my other shrimp, blue tigers, I was told to do this overnight by the seller cause they are more sensitive.
> 
> But then again, my first time buying RCS, I just dumped them in my tank (didn't know to acclimate) and they were all fine and bred like crazy.


Yes I agree, one hour for RCS, a little more for yellows, blue pearls
Couple hours for CRS
Maybe up to 6 for high grade CRS or BTs,


----------



## Kadina (Feb 13, 2009)

Four more were dead when I got home that I could see and I could only find 10 live ones. Two of those are whitish. 

I did more testing tonight.

GH: 3 degrees
KH: 3 degrees
TDS: 90 ppm

I checked with my husband and we do not have a water softener. Any thoughts based on those additional tests?


----------



## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

Honestly, I am starting to think you have something in your well water that the RCS aren't caring for, and since you aren't using any water conditioner, it may be doing something bad.

If I am correct, or even if I am not, I would suggest you go to the store and buy some water conditioner immediately. Adding it will not hurt the shrimp any further.

Edit: By the way, is this your first time having shrimp?


----------



## Kadina (Feb 13, 2009)

I have some stress coat, that would be ok to add?

I tried having shrimp back in October and they all died as well, however, that time, I was doing some funky stuff with the decor of the tank and I think I poisoned them with rotting bamboo.


----------



## fishsandwitch (Apr 20, 2008)

Heavy metals would be my guess. I wouldn't try to keep shrimp in your well water again.
Might as well add stress coat until you can get some prime


----------



## queensalmon (Oct 15, 2008)

It is possible that you have copper in your water - that was my problem with well water for years...

Queensalmon


----------



## Kadina (Feb 13, 2009)

Is there a way to test for heavy metals? Would bottled water be my next option?


----------



## Kadina (Feb 13, 2009)

queensalmon said:


> It is possible that you have copper in your water - that was my problem with well water for years...
> 
> Queensalmon


I tested for copper and it was zero (see first post). I actually bought a copper test kit and tested my tap water before buying the shrimp. Are there other heavy metals that could be a problem?


----------



## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

Chances are there are other metals outside of copper. Not sure if there are tests for those. If you have a wal-mart near you, they have aquasafe and start right. Not the best, but it should work on getting the metals and condition your water.

When it comes to shrimp, they are sensitive to metals. I put conditioner everytime I do a water change. Rather be safe then sorry. As for the rotting bamboo, that probably didn't affect them.


----------



## Kadina (Feb 13, 2009)

Ok, I added some stress coat tonight and I will pick up some conditioner tomorrow. Thanks for the input everyone! Maybe I will get lucky and some of the little guys will survive.


----------



## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

How are your shrimp doing?


----------



## billb (May 29, 2009)

This sounds like a bacterial infection. 
Here is a google translated page describing this topic. The site is German. It has picture you can compare to and suggested remedies

Good luck

Bill

http://translate.google.com/transla...&prev=/search?q=crusta+krankheiten&hl=en&sa=G


----------



## DBL TAP (Apr 27, 2008)

I've always had loss when I introduce new shrimp. Those that died could've been weakened from the mailing. Hopefully a couple females survived and you will be restocked with new shrimplets in no time!

Good luck


----------



## Kadina (Feb 13, 2009)

msnikkistar said:


> How are your shrimp doing?


I picked up some Prime yesterday on my lunch break and when I got home there were a few more dead shrimp. I counted 6 live ones, and none of those were turning white so far. I retested the water and everything was the same - zero ammonia, nitrites and copper, 10 nitrate. I did a 25% water change anyway and added some prime.



DBL TAP said:


> I've always had loss when I introduce new shrimp. Those that died could've been weakened from the mailing. Hopefully a couple females survived and you will be restocked with new shrimplets in no time!
> 
> Good luck


Thanks, I was wondering if the 5 days in the mail played any part in the deaths. I guess there is no way to really know. I can see one female still alive for sure, but the rest look like males. Hopefully she makes it!


----------



## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

Oh wow, 5 days? I had anticipated that they only spent a max of 3 days, however, with that being said. It could have easily been the stress of that 5 days that could have killed the weaker ones. Especially if they are adults.


----------



## Kadina (Feb 13, 2009)

I was surprised it took so long for them to arrive as well. I ordered from epicfish here on this forum. He mailed them priority mail on Saturday from CA and they arrived at my house in PA on Wednesday.


----------



## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

Holy moly, that's a really long time for priority mail.


----------



## Kadina (Feb 13, 2009)

Two more dead when I got home from work today. Four left. :icon_cry:


----------



## fishsandwitch (Apr 20, 2008)

Priority is so slow nowadays shipping on saturday isnt a good idea


----------



## Eden Marel (Jan 28, 2010)

Some USPS don't even operate on Saturdays anymore, I saw it on the news.


----------



## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

Eden Marel said:


> Some USPS don't even operate on Saturdays anymore, I saw it on the news.


Wrong  It has just been proposed. Until Congress gives it the okay, they have to continue delivery of mail on Saturday. They would be breaking federal law if they did not. Now if you are talking about the closing of some USPS locations (i.e post offices), then yes, they have been systematically closing locations with little service needed nationwide. They have also been removing the metal mailboxes that have little use as well.

My mom is an Executive for the USPS in Washington DC. I knew about this 5 day delivery proposal about 2 years before it was recently released to the public. After this proposal, you will likely see a layoff of about 10-20% of its employees with 5 or less years with the USPS. They are BROKE!

Priority mail is suppose to be guaranteed no later then 4 days, even if you are across country. Chances are, the USPS made some unfortunate mistake with routing your packaging, and it probably got an extra day.


----------



## comet (Jun 10, 2006)

Hi. Have you ever checked your Ph level after the water has been aerated for awhile?
Before we had a soda ash system put in, our well Ph was 6.4. When aerated in a tub with a large air stone it would come up to 7.0.
I was getting green staining in my sinks, tub, etc from copper leaching from the pipes with the low Ph.
It may pay for you to put your tap water in a tub or bucket, with some Aqua-Safe conditioner, let it aerate for an hour or so. And let it age for a day, then use it for a water change. 
I would not trust the copper test kit. 
If you would like to know how I bring the tub water up to match the tank temp., let me know. 

I'm sure the five day trip to you stressed them. And then having to adapt to the lower Ph.

I do think your Ph is way too low for shrimp. Hopefully, you find that your Ph will go up after aeration. If not, you can experiment with some baking soda to bring your Ph up in a small bucket.
It will take less than a pinch. You'll be surprised how little is needed. Or bottled water can help. 

My first try at RCS didn't go well either.  Then I tried them again about 3 months later and they did great. I'm wondering if they prefer an established tank. Hard to say.


----------



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

fishsandwitch said:


> Priority is so slow nowadays shipping on saturday isnt a good idea


Please check up on your facts before you post, thanks. Mail is processed on Sundays still. It just doesn't get delivered.



msnikkistar said:


> Wrong  It has just been proposed. Until Congress gives it the okay, they have to continue delivery of mail on Saturday. They would be breaking federal law if they did not. Now if you are talking about the closing of some USPS locations (i.e post offices), then yes, they have been systematically closing locations with little service needed nationwide. They have also been removing the metal mailboxes that have little use as well.
> 
> My mom is an Executive for the USPS in Washington DC. I knew about this 5 day delivery proposal about 2 years before it was recently released to the public. After this proposal, you will likely see a layoff of about 10-20% of its employees with 5 or less years with the USPS. They are BROKE!
> 
> Priority mail is suppose to be guaranteed no later then 4 days, even if you are across country. Chances are, the USPS made some unfortunate mistake with routing your packaging, and it probably got an extra day.


Yes, after checking the tracking, there was a routing error.

Kadina, let me know how the remaining shrimp are faring and PM me in a week and we'll work something out.


----------



## fishsandwitch (Apr 20, 2008)

epicfish said:


> Please check up on your facts before you post, thanks. Mail is processed on Sundays still. It just doesn't get delivered.
> .


Please dont be rude,thanks?

Why not post civily? Mail shipped on saturdays has been taking 5 days for MANY people. Some post offices have reduced hours and mail in general is getting less and less reliable, thanks

My mailman and another mailman I know said shipping on saturdays live things and a lots of peoples experiences are the basis for this, thanks!


----------



## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

fishsandwitch said:


> Please dont be rude,thanks?
> 
> Why not post civily? Mail shipped on saturdays has been taking 5 days for MANY people. Some post offices have reduced hours and mail in general is getting less and less reliable, thanks
> 
> My mailman and another mailman I know said shipping on saturdays live things and a lots of peoples experiences are the basis for this, thanks!


In smaller rural areas this may be true (and when I say small, I mean VERY small), but all mail even from rural areas are forwarded to metropolitan sorting facilities that are still required to still operate on Sundays. Even if mail is not deliverable on Sundays (and possibly Saturdays in the future), the mail continues on its path to where it's destination is. The post office's sorting facilities run 7 days a week. As long as you mail something out on Saturday before the last pick up, even in rural areas, your mail will continue on its way. However, if you mail after the last pick up (typically 2:15pm on Saturday), your package will sit at the post office you dropped it off at until Monday. Which is the reason why it seems to take 5 days.

What you are stating is a rarity, and does happen from time to time, but not the rule. If shipping out priority, it is the general rule of thumb that the delivery is expedited. Hence the reason you pay higher fees to ship it versus using parcel post (which is 5-7 day delivery time). Rerouting of items to wrong sorting facilities occur, and human errors occur. That in no way means that this is the common situation.

I have contracted work with the USPS, and like I stated, my mother has worked for them for 20+ years. Those are the facts behind shipping.


----------



## comet (Jun 10, 2006)

:icon_ideaCan we please focus on the original posters problem. The rest can go into the Lounge for discussion.


----------



## Kadina (Feb 13, 2009)

comet said:


> Hi. Have you ever checked your Ph level after the water has been aerated for awhile?
> Before we had a soda ash system put in, our well Ph was 6.4. When aerated in a tub with a large air stone it would come up to 7.0.
> I was getting green staining in my sinks, tub, etc from copper leaching from the pipes with the low Ph.
> It may pay for you to put your tap water in a tub or bucket, with some Aqua-Safe conditioner, let it aerate for an hour or so. And let it age for a day, then use it for a water change.
> ...


What makes you say not to trust the copper test kit? Was that a waste of money? As for my PH, it does rise over time in the tank, up to about 6.8. In my established aquariums I never do large water changes (> 50%) because of the fact that the PH of my tap water is lower than the aged water.



epicfish said:


> Kadina, let me know how the remaining shrimp are faring and PM me in a week and we'll work something out.


I counted 6 left on Saturday night, a few must of been hiding. None of those left are turning white and look good, but right now I am just waiting it out to see how they fair.


----------



## comet (Jun 10, 2006)

> What makes you say not to trust the copper test kit? Was that a waste of money? As for my PH, it does rise over time in the tank, up to about 6.8. In my established aquariums I never do large water changes (> 50%) because of the fact that the PH of my tap water is lower than the aged water.


I feel that there are circumstances that will fluctuate the copper levels coming from the tap from daily use of the water. Here is some good info about it to read:
http://dnr.wi.gov/org/water/dwg/copper.htm

Since you have a 5.5 gallon tank, a 1.5 gallon water change a week would be fine. The tap water to do this can easily be put in a bucket, treated for metals with a conditioner and aerated with a large air stone prior to adding to the tank. 
Since you're concerned with copper and shrimp sensitivity, run the cold tap water for a while to "flush" the pipes out when using it. I avoid using the hot water tap. 
Hope this helps and you're shrimp multiply for you!


----------



## mrparker (Oct 23, 2009)

i got 25 RCS a while ago(back mid december) and they all arrived alive, did fine, but over the past 3 months, slowly one here or there would die off. I wondered if they didnt have enough to eat, cuz there wasnt much algae at all. But now i have had a female and male left for the past month or so, and just found a baby - natural selection hah.

i also have really high ph (8.0) but i guess the conclusion on that is that its irrelevant. :/


----------



## dgphelps (Aug 8, 2008)

I'm wondering it is it a molting issue due to insufficient calcium and other required nutrients for that. I'd suggest using a calcium buffer, something like - my home-made calcium buffer or Barr's GH booster to see if that helps. 

It may also be things like copper in the tank, substrate, water change water, etc. but the fact that they are milky white makes me think about molting. I know that many times when I change water parameters by either adding new shrimp to a tank or moving shrimp to another tank they molt shortly after. Sometimes just a large water change can lead them to molt.

Hope that helps.


----------



## fishsandwitch (Apr 20, 2008)

milky white is from bad water paramaters, in this case because they were in the mail so long.


----------



## dgphelps (Aug 8, 2008)

I actually did read the entire thread before posting fishsandwitch. Bad water parameters would contribute to issues molting as the water wouldn't contain the required nutrients to molt properly and molting issues are a common cause for shrimp death in tanks.

I'm just adding my thoughts in hopes to help the poster further. It's highly likely the well water lacks things like calcium and is higher in things the shrimp do not do well with which is why the shrimp continue to die days after being added to the tank. Again just my two cents trying to help, I'm not sure why my advice was dismissed so quickly.


----------



## stewardwildcat (Feb 24, 2010)

If mine ever start having babies I will send you some.


----------



## AHplants (Apr 4, 2010)

Not sure if this matters but is the flourite new? And have you had other shrimps with the flourite in the past? My shrimps started dying soon after I dumped in flourite but they were all fine before.

I'm still trying to figure out why my shrimps are dying one by one in the same manner you described. Hope yours will turn out better.


----------



## fishsandwitch (Apr 20, 2008)

AHplants said:


> Not sure if this matters but is the flourite new? And have you had other shrimps with the flourite in the past? My shrimps started dying soon after I dumped in flourite but they were all fine before.
> 
> I'm still trying to figure out why my shrimps are dying one by one in the same manner you described. Hope yours will turn out better.


 Probbably because your old substrate was buried so deep the bacteria could not consume ammonia. The shrimp are slowly dieing because of bad water paramaters even if the ammonia was gone long ago.


----------



## Kadina (Feb 13, 2009)

UPDATE: I switched to using bottled water and changing one gallon a week with Prime. As of last night, I've had eggs hatch twice and have two different size baby shrimp running around the tank. There are still only a few adult shrimp in the tank and one female is already berried again. 

I am going to chalk this up to my well water being incompatible with shrimp, but specifically why I still do not know. I haven't had a single shrimp die since I started using bottled water and purchasing a gallon a week is inexpensive and totally worth it.

I was going to purchase another 20 shrimp, but I think for now I am just going to let the tank alone and see how things go over the next few months.

Thanks for all the help!


----------



## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

Nice to hear everything is going well for you! Hope you have tons of babies! Well, not too many or else you're going to be overrun soon.


----------



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Kadina said:


> UPDATE: I switched to using bottled water and changing one gallon a week with Prime. As of last night, I've had eggs hatch twice and have two different size baby shrimp running around the tank. There are still only a few adult shrimp in the tank and one female is already berried again.
> 
> I am going to chalk this up to my well water being incompatible with shrimp, but specifically why I still do not know. I haven't had a single shrimp die since I started using bottled water and purchasing a gallon a week is inexpensive and totally worth it.
> 
> ...


Any updates? How are the shrimp doing with the bottled water?


----------



## Kadina (Feb 13, 2009)

epicfish said:


> Any updates? How are the shrimp doing with the bottled water?


They are doing great! There are always babies in the tank now, of varying ages and the adult population is slowly growing. I haven't had any deaths (that I noticed) since I last posted. Thanks for asking!


----------



## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

I think it was shipping stress. I have found that with any shrimp if they are stressed badly during shipping they will carry on for sometimes up to a month only to die from a seemingly phantom source. This is what I believe causes so much of the mystery with shrimp in our hobby, shrimp dying from what seems to be nothing. 

Happy to hear everything is good now.


----------

