# Water Sprite - constant new growth but pale colour.



## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

Does anyone know if this is normal?, my Water Sprite grows really fast and the stems and leafs are strong yet the colour is something to be desired.

It has a pale , light green colour, the sprite almost looks like it's lacking some macro, maybe K, P. 

My two other plants are growing equally well with a much deeper green colouring.
Crypt Sprials , Hygrophila corymbosa. 


12 gallon, 8 hour cycle light, 
42 LED 10,000K low intensity (Fluval Edge 12 g stock) 
Desktop Compact Fluorescent 6500 23K watt High intensity, (Most often daily for the 8 hour duration) 

Typical Flourite Red + Excel (every other day). 

No pictures, but I got some old pics in my thread when they were green.

Anyways, is this normal? The steams are strong and have a nice thickness to them, new growth is about 1 new steam from substrate a week. I trim weekly when it sends out it's runners but I want a higher , bushy look.


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

Anyone?


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

Hard to guess without a picture. You might want to let one float (attach to a spay bar or such) and see if the color is different. If it is, it might be the light.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi FlyingHellFish,

What are you doing for fertilizer?


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

^ Now that is what I want! I dose Flourish at recommended doses, once a week and do a 25 - 40 % water change during that week. 


I'll grab a quick picture, the difference is very noticeable. Here is a picture when I first got the plants, they are 1 week old in this picture. 
*Old picture:* 











*This is today:*

Water Sprite - All these leafs are new growth, I trim all the older leafs because they were shooting out a lot of new runners (new plant with roots) and it just got really high. 
















This is my Hygrophila corymbosa - Maybe a Magnesium deficiency?


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## RandomMan (May 31, 2011)

Seattle_Aquarist's photo is of the broad leaf variety. Judging from your photo, you have one of the narrow leaf varieties. I have the same one, I grow it in one tank that is low light, and a medium light tank with aquasoil and CO2. In both tanks it grows a light green color.

I had one tank where it barely grew, and was a more sickly yellowish color. It was due to either low Nitrates or Phosphates from other plants in the tank out competing it. I never figured out for sure which, but once I started dosing both the watersprite became light green again. 

Broad (or Oak Leaf) Watersprite is a much darker green color, but I've had problems growing it planted. In my tanks, it does better floating.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi FlyingHellFish,

My pic is Ceratopteris cornuta, the plants in your tank look like Ceratopteris siliquosa, I grow both. Certopteris are great in new tanks because they are heavy feeders and will eat up the excessive ammonium, nitrites, and nitrates during the Nitrogen Cycle that happens during first 30 days an aquarium is set up. If you want to keep up that growth after the Nitrogen Cycle has ended, you have to feed fairly heavily; at least 2-3 days per week with Flourish. If my plants are pale, I find that adding some extra Iron helps to green them up quickly.


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

Thanks for both of your answers. 


I'm not sure what happen along the way but I was expecting the water sprite to be less "bushy". Its constantly spouting new stems in the middle with the same pale colour. 
I keep cherry shrimps in the tank for algae so I can't really dose heavy on the frets. They are thriving regardless of the flourish and excel, great clean up crew. 

Do you guys think I should cut back on the lights? Slow the growth down? My nitrate are at 5 ppm, maybe 10 - 20 ppm since I added Flourish. I don't think my nitrate ever went past 5 ppm. 
Maybe grab Seachem's Trace elements? Would root tabs work better than Trace and other liquid frets for my problems? 

On the tag the plant is called "Ceratopteris thalictroides" , not sure if that will help. I replanted a large runner and it's too is pale and spouting new stems. My set up must be wrong, the plants are growing but all new leafs are pale. 

*Interesting note*: My crypt spiralis always stays green but has no new growth, while my other plants are doing the opposite. 

@ Randonman, where your WS plant green when you got them and slowly turned yellow?


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi FlyingFishHell,

Actually, I believe that C. thalictroides is the correct name; C. siliquosa is an older incorrect name . My experience has been that cutting back the light will just just make the plants more pale and 'leggy'. You may want to re-think your plant choice for that portion of your tank if the maintenance is excessive.


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

Ceratopteris Thalictroides is what FlyingHellFish has. It's been overtaking 3 of my tanks forever. It is a fern-like plant with lacy leaves of light green color. It is a heavy feeder, but will survive under almost any condition. It propagates constantly by plantets off existing stems. The 'right' way to plant it is to put a stone/DF on the roots so that about 1' of the roots are above the substrate. Or you can grow it floating, say, attached to a spray bar. The way to trim it is not to cut the stem but to remove the whole stem at the base of the roots. If you cut the stem anywhere above the roots, the stem will start to rot.

Both the Sprite and H. Corymbosa (Green Temple) are giving you the hint of what's is missing. Both plants need a lot of light. Both plants need a lot of nutrients. Both plants in your tank are rather short for their species == not enough light. If you look at the leaves of H. Corymbosa, it's telling you it's hungry and it needs more P. Light + P and both of them will be breaking the surface in < 2 weeks, trying to go emersed. Closer to the surface, H. Corymbosa's top leaves should start turning deep brick color, going deep brown when they are about to break the surface.

BTW, You have a narrow leaf or ''Siamensis'' variety, that usually colors much faster then the regular, broad-leaf Corymbosa. GL 

12g tank is not nearly enough for both plants, especially for the H. Corymbosa, it needs 24"++ tall tank. The Water Sprite stays relatively small for about 2 weeks under low light.

Healthy H. Corymbosa under medium light.


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

Is that your corymbosa? It looks amazing, what do you dose and how much? 


What is a good product for EI dosing where I can introduce Phosphorous (P), I already use Flourish. 

Water Sprite : I try to cut as close as possible to the base of the stem. It's still spouting new stems at the base while the leafs are pale. 

I added another light to substitute, full spectrum low intensity clamp lamp. I'll see how it goes until I find better lights.


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

Yes, that's my corymbosa (regular leaf) going through the top of 75Tall at 24".
I let some of it break the surface of an open-top 18" tall tank (like I had much of a choice ) and it grows about 18" over the rim constantly blooming with nice tiny bluish flowers that constantly drop into the tank...

For mixing and dosing you should do a web search - there are a bunch of calculators out there. You should also have some fun searching for appropriate plants for your specific set-up. Green Temple and Water Sprite were not made to live in 12G LOL

Let us know if the new light helps.


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

Here is a narrow leaf or 'Siamensis' at the top of an 18"-high tank:


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

Thanks for the help, I'm checking out the calculator.

My tank is 17.6 inches high, the water sprite is just shooting out new stems and not growing any higher. I want a less "bushy" look but I guess I can't argue with nature. 

OVT - Is that red flower the thing that spouted from your Hygro Siamensis? That flower is beautiful, does it just drop off the stem or do you cut it? Also, do you use Co2 for your tank?


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

Sorry, that 'red flower' is actually a tip of Ludwigia repens  which just happened to be on top of water sprite... And yes, I do use CO2.


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

My H. Corymbosa is not looking so well. It's colour is getting paler yet it continues to grow and spit out new leafs, maybe I have too much light? 


I'm thinking of dosing some dry fertilizer, maybe some Epsom salt to add Magnesium. 

Perhaps some root tabs would do the trick, what do you guys think?


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi FlyingHellFish,

If you change a lot of the parameters at one time how are you going to determine what resolved the problem?


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

That is true, it's just depressing seeing this once beautiful plant slowly die. What do you think I should do first? 

Colour is fading but they're both continually growing new leafs. Maybe a water change? Cut the older leafs off?


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi FlyingHellFish,

If it were me, I would make only one change per week and my first change would be to increase my fertilizer dosing and see what the results are. Flourish Comprehensive says you can dose 1-2 times per week, and you have a lot of fast growing plants in you tank, so 2X per week may still not be enough for optimum growth but if it the problem if ferts you should see improvement.


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## OVT (Nov 29, 2011)

+1 on ferts first imho


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## FishFarmer (Feb 8, 2007)

I'd up the fertilizer amount. I have both water sprite and _H. corymbosa_ growing very well in my 29 gallon. I dose Flourish Comprehensive 6mL/week (broken down in two 3mL doses). I also dose iron and a micro trace fertilizer when I remember and/or feel like it haha. You may consider adding some more iron--next to N, Fe will green up plants the most. It will also give plants with red hues more brilliant coloration.


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

I'm still trying to pick up some Dry Ferts, do you guys think it's Nitrogen or Iron? 

My substrate is Flourite Red which has a high Iron level. I also have a few cherry shrimps in there, any suggestion for a safe way of dosing? 

I'm still seeing new stems and leafs popping up, colour remains the same, going to try to dose some N and see how it goes. Current Nitrate is 5 ppm.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi FlyingHellFish,

Why not just see what the results are from increasing the dosing of what you are using. It is a well balanced fertilizer with both Macro and Micro nutrients. What happens if you guess wrong and nitrogen isn't you limiting factor? I could be phosphorus, potassium, iron, or any number of others.

I like to K.I.S.S. Just increase the dosage of what you are currently using and let us know the results. BTW, the existing leaves do not always respond to improved conditions, the new leaves will let you know if the conditions are improving or not.


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

Hey Settle, I went with your advice and up my Flourish dose. The new stems are greener than before but my H. Corymbosa is still pale with dark veins. 

Can one add Epsom Salt to increase the Mang? 

I had to cut off more of the Corymbosa and the Water Sprite because they would not stop growing. Cutting down on light did not make a change. 

Also, my Crypt started melting and lost a few of it's long leafs but there are new growth from the bottom. 

Not sure what to do?


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

Bump!

Anyone want to chime in on this?


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## Kathyy (Feb 22, 2010)

Here is a really cool calculator for you. You can put in the exact fertilizer and dosing you are using.
http://calc.petalphile.com/

If I saw an improvement with ?ml per week then I might try ?x1.5ml for a couple weeks to see what happens.

And epsom salts are a good source of magnesium.


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

Why is that just for iron? I up my iron and comprehensive, not sure if I should keep going.

Is there a limit? There must be a point where theres an overdose of comprehensive flourish.


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## Kathyy (Feb 22, 2010)

Click 'result of my dose' and you get all that you are adding.

Lots of people switch to dry nutrient salts when the tank needs more fertilizer than made up liquids provide. How much light is over the tank? Do you provide CO2?


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## FlyingHellFish (Nov 5, 2011)

I get it now. 

I can't seem to find the levels for trace tho, they only give Fe, P04, N03... etc.


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