# Best Cycling Fish



## JasonG75 (Mar 1, 2011)

NONE....Either do a silent cycle OR Fishless Cycle. Look into it and read.


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## jeremyTR (Mar 21, 2012)

Fishless.

Just toss a pinch of food in every other day or so

Sent from my HTC Evo 4G


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## jeremyTR (Mar 21, 2012)

Make sure to get the ammonia up to at least 3ppm tho.

Sent from my HTC Evo 4G


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## @[email protected] (Oct 24, 2007)

the higher the protein content of the food, the better. protein -> amino acid -> CO2, H2O, and *NH4+*. carbohydrate, fiber, and fats are not useful for a cycle (they dont hurt, they just dont do anything).


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## BBradbury (Nov 8, 2010)

*Fish In Cycling*



steveg89 said:


> Just got my 55 gallon set up with sand. I have two Aquatop Canister Filters going and I am ready to start cycling. What are some hardy fish to start this process?


Hello steve...

If you like "Livebearers", I've used Guppies. Platys are also a good choice. If you prefer "Egglayers" then Zebra Danios are fine. You have a large tank with quite a bit of water to dilute the waste the fish produce. Make sure you start with a dozen or more.

If possible, get some used media, gravel or decorations from an established tank to make the process a bit faster. The good bacteria will live on any inside tank surface and will grow quickly. 

If you carefully monitor the water by testing for traces of ammonia or nitrites daily and remove and replace 25 to 30 percent of the water when you get a positive test, your fish will be fine. The small water changes will keep the chemistry in the "safe zone".

Remember, you need to test daily and change the water when necessary. When you get several "0" tests for ammonia and nitrites, only then can you add a few more fish.

Add some plants that match your lighting. They will help too. Seems like I dosed a little of Seachem's "Stability" according to the instructions when cycling a tank. Check into this too.

Just a few thoughts.

B


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## livingword26 (Oct 28, 2010)

Many people choose to cycle a tank with live fish, If you choose to do so, that fine. But just so you understand why you need hardy fish. When your tank is going through the Ammonia stage, the high levels of ammoina can cause ammonia poisoning:

http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/disease/p/ammoniapoison.htm

As the cycle progresses into the nitrite stage, fish will be affected by nitrite with brown blood disease:

http://en.engormix.com/MA-aquaculture/articles/brown-blood-disease-t1010/p0.htm

If you don't want to do it that way, do some research on the fishless cycle.


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## DishyFishy (Jul 17, 2011)

JasonG75 said:


> NONE....Either do a silent cycle OR Fishless Cycle. Look into it and read.


I agree. No need to hurt any fish, definitely read up on the fishless cycle, and what happens to the fish when you throw them into a tank full of ammonia.


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## Noahma (Oct 18, 2009)

Frozen shrimp from the supermarket, drop that in the water and wait a bit... as it decays it will cycle the tank pretty good.


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## LAKE (Jul 9, 2012)

I support a fishless cycle. But at some point it is time to add fish.

I still like to start with a few hardy fellas with a young cycle and add fish gradually.
A lot of schools use Zebra Danios as they are hardy and prevent students from getting upset that "Fin" is floating upside down. They produce enough waste and eat quickly enough to help the tank cycle better. Other fish like White Clouds don't eat that much and digest it effectively, reducing the benefit to the cycle.

It is a good idea to plan cycle fish that you would be happy keeping long term or that you could easily find another home for (like cycling another tank!).


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## BBradbury (Nov 8, 2010)

*Fish In Cycling*



steveg89 said:


> Just got my 55 gallon set up with sand. I have two Aquatop Canister Filters going and I am ready to start cycling. What are some hardy fish to start this process?


Hello again s...

The "fish in" cycling method is efficient and won't hurt your fish, provided you test the tank water daily and if you have a positive test for ammonia or nitrites, you remove and replace about 15 gallons of tank water. If you do this, then the water won't be in the tank long enough for pollutants to build up and harm your fish.

The problem many people have is they don't test the water daily and fail to replace the recommended amount of water to maintain the water chemistry.

B


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

This is unfortunately not accurate.

The fish-in cycling method can and does harm fish, as mentioned above. While it's up to you whether or not you want to risk the life of a fish to cycle your tank, that method does cause poisoning and disease.



BBradbury said:


> Hello again s...
> 
> The "fish in" cycling method is efficient and won't hurt your fish, provided you test the tank water daily and if you have a positive test for ammonia or nitrites, you remove and replace about 15 gallons of tank water. If you do this, then the water won't be in the tank long enough for pollutants to build up and harm your fish.
> 
> ...


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## Secretninja (Dec 30, 2011)

The only problem I have with fish in cycles is wasting money on hardy fish I don't like or on nice fish that might die.


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## Jeffww (Aug 6, 2010)

Or permanently damaging fish through ammonia burn on their gills...All detectable levels of ammonia are harmful. It just takes a certain level to actually cause fatality quickly. The dose makes the poison is not applicable here.


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

BBradbury said:


> Hello again s...
> 
> The "fish in" cycling method is efficient and won't hurt your fish, provided you test the tank water daily and if you have a positive test for ammonia or nitrites, you remove and replace about 15 gallons of tank water. If you do this, then the water won't be in the tank long enough for pollutants to build up and harm your fish.
> 
> ...


Not the best of advice 
Try ammonia burn or better yet brown blood disease (google that) 
Another post to be added in the BBradbury list of best tanking practices and sound advice. Apologize yet post because I keep reading this hit parade of opinion on topic after topic and in short recommendations like this hurt us all.

also google advice from the fruitcake lady


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## livingword26 (Oct 28, 2010)

BBradbury said:


> Hello again s...
> 
> The "fish in" cycling method is efficient and won't hurt your fish, provided you test the tank water daily and if you have a positive test for ammonia or nitrites, you remove and replace about 15 gallons of tank water. If you do this, then the water won't be in the tank long enough for pollutants to build up and harm your fish.
> 
> ...


If you want to do large enough water changes to keep your ammonia and nitrite down below .25ppm, then you might get away with it. But in a 55 gallon aquarium, you could be looking at 30 or 40 gallon water changes daily to do that, if your aquarium has very few fish, and they are fed very lightly. If you keep the levels any higher than that, then whether the fish survive or not, they have suffered at least some of the effects of the above mentioned conditions, and will likely be scared or damaged from it in some way.


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## temple2101 (Jun 6, 2012)

In my opinion, if you're set on doing a fish in cycle, use Tetra SafeStart. It's not cheap though. I've used in both of my tanks with great results and was able to *lightly* stock from day one and have seen no ill effects. I know some don't support fish in cycles, but TSS is a safer, less harmful way to go about doing it if you so choose.


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## Secretninja (Dec 30, 2011)

Does dosing prime stop gill burn? I know it makes it nonlethal but does it cancel the other negative effects?


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## justdrew (Jul 7, 2010)

+1 for a fishless cycle
It does take time, but that gives you the chance to really think about where you want to go with the tank, and it doesn't leave you with weakened livestock.
As far as Prime or another water conditioner, I haven't the slightest idea of their half-lives. They latch onto the ammonia they find right away when added, but I don't think you want this b/c your benificial bacteria will not grow without the ammonia.


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## livingword26 (Oct 28, 2010)

Secretninja said:


> Does dosing prime stop gill burn? I know it makes it nonlethal but does it cancel the other negative effects?


Here is what "Prime" says on the bottle;

Directions for Use:
Use 1 capful (5 ml) for each 50 gallons of new water. For smaller doses, please note each cap thread is approximately 1 ml. This dose removes approximately 0.6 mg/L ammonia, 3 mg/L chloramine, or 4 mg/L chlorine. 

May be added to aquarium directly, but better if added to new water first. If adding directly to aquarium, base the dose on aquarium volume. Sulfur odor is normal. For exceptionally high chloramine concentrations, a double dose may be used safely. 

To detoxify nitrite in an emergency, up to 5 times normal dose may be used. If temperature is > 86°F and chlorine or ammonia levels are low, use a half dose.


As far as using large doses for a whole fishy cycle, to try to protect the fish, I doubt the fish would be unaffected, either by the ammonia and nitrite, or by the prolonged large doses of prime. But I can't say for sure. I don't know how it would affect the cycle either, but I don't think it would be very beneficial.


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

RE: SeaChem's Prime

This is a conversation I started with a SeaChem Rep. I think it merits reading as I can imagine a Newbe could OD their tank based on info on the back label. I hope this is helpful. i know it saved me some money as I was using TOO MUCH prime just in W/C


http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/seachem/82736-prime-dosage-gallon.html


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## pandamonium (May 14, 2012)

i used zebra danios along with nutrafin cycle as a supplement. apparently someone on the forum i forget who, actually tested the water parameters using this product and it worked.if i can find the link again i will post it. but i kept the zebras for 4 years until they died. they are really hardy and very active fish. 
in my 40 gallon tank, i used a fishless cycle because i wanted to see what fish i wanted. didnt want to just buy a fish to cycle and then ignore him. using certain cycling products helps establish a colony but by no means builds it. i grabbed some gravel and a filter from my seeded tank to help start this tank up. worked very well and i was up and running about 4 ish weeks


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## wendyjo (Feb 20, 2009)

I see no reason to use live creatures to cycle the tank when it can be done just as easily (easier really, since tests and water changes aren't needed often) without them.


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

Here is the fishless cycle. 

You can add the exact species of bacteria you are trying to grow and this makes the fishless cycle go faster. Look of Nitrospiros species of bacteria. All other products have the wrong species. Do not waste your money. 

The fishless cycle as posted here will raise a large enough colony of bacteria to FULLY stock an African Rift Lake tank. These are traditionally overstocked to address some of the aggression issues. So when your fishless cycle is complete go ahead and stock! To add less than a full load is to allow the bacteria to die off. 

Fishless Cycle
You too can boast that "No fish were harmed in the cycling of your new tank"
Cycling a tank means to grow the beneficial bacteria that will help to decompose the fish waste (especially ammonia). These bacteria need ammonia to grow. There are 3 sources of ammonia that work to do this. One is fish. Unfortunately, the process exposes the fish to ammonia, which burns their gills, and nitrite, which makes their blood unable to carry oxygen. This often kills the fish.

Another source is decomposing protein. You could cycle your tank by adding fish food or a dead fish or shellfish. You do not know how much beneficial bacteria you are growing, though. 

The best source of ammonia is... Ammonia. In a bottle. 

Using fish is a delicate balance of water changes to keep the toxins low (try not to hurt the fish) but keep feeding the bacteria. It can take 4 to 8 weeks to cycle a tank this way, and can cost the lives of several fish. When you are done you have grown a small bacteria population that still needs to be nurtured to increase its population. You cannot, at the end of a fish-in cycle, fully stock your tank. 

The fishless/ammonia cycle takes as little as 3 weeks, and can be even faster, grows a BIG bacteria population, and does not harm fish in any way. 

Both methods give you plenty of practice using your test kit. 

How to cycle a tank the fishless way: 

1) Make sure all equipment is working, fill with water that has all the stuff you will need for the fish you intend to keep. Dechlorinator, minerals for GH or KH adjustments, the proper salt mix, if you are creating a brackish or marine tank. These bacteria require a few minerals, so make sure the GH and KH is at least 3 German degrees of hardness. They grow best when the pH is in the 7s. Good water movement, fairly warm (mid to upper 70sF), no antibiotics or other toxins. 

2) (Optional)Add some source of the bacteria. Used filter media from a cycled tank is best, gravel or some decorations or a few plants... even some water, though this is the poorest source of the beneficial bacteria. 
Bacteria in a bottle can be a source of these bacteria, but make sure you are getting Nitrospiros spp of bacteria. All other ‘bacteria in a bottle’ products have the wrong bacteria. (This step is optional. The proper bacteria will find the tank even if you make no effort to add them). Live plants may bring in these bacteria on their leaves and stems. 

3) Add ammonia until the test reads 5 ppm. This is the non-sudsing, no surfactants, no-fragrance-added ammonia that is often found in a hardware store, discount stores, and sometimes in a grocery store. The concentration of ammonia may not be the same in all bottles. Try adding 5 drops per 10 gallons, then allowing the filter to circulate for about an hour, then test. If the reading isn't up to 5 ppm, add a few more drops and test again. (Example, if your test reads only 2 ppm, then add another 5 drops) Some ammonia is such a weak dilution you may need to add several ounces to get a reading. 

4) Test for ammonia daily, and add enough to keep the reading at 5 ppm. You probably will not have to add much, if any, in the first few days, unless you added a good amount of bacteria to jump start the cycle. 

5) Several days after you start, begin testing for nitrites. When the nitrites show up, reduce the amount of ammonia you add so the test shows 3ppm. (Add only half as much ammonia as you were adding in part 4) Add this reduced amount daily from now until the tank is cycled. 
If the nitrites get too high (over 5 ppm), do a water change. The bacteria growth is slowed because of the high nitrites. Reducing the level of ammonia to 3 ppm should prevent the nitrite from getting over 5 ppm. 

6) Continue testing, and adding ammonia daily. The nitrates will likely show up about 2 weeks after you started. Keep monitoring, and watch for 0 ppm ammonia, 0 ppm nitrite and rising nitrates. 

7) Once the 0 ppm ammonia and nitrites shows up it may bounce around a little bit for a day or two. Be patient. Keep adding the ammonia; keep testing ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. 
When it seems done you can challenge the system by adding more than a regular dose of ammonia, and the bacteria should be able to remove the ammonia and nitrite by the next day. 
If you will not be adding fish right away continue to add the ammonia to keep the bacteria fed. 

8) When you are ready to add the fish, do at least one water change, and it may take a couple of them, to reduce the nitrate to safe levels (as low as possible, certainly below 10 ppm) I have seen nitrate approaching 200 ppm by the end of this fishless cycle in a non-planted tank. 

9) You can plant a tank that is being cycled this way at any point during the process. If you plant early, the plants will be well rooted, and better able to handle the disruption of the water change. 
Yes, the plants will use some of the ammonia and the nitrates. They are part of the nitrogen handling system, part of the biofilter, they are working for you. Some plants do not like high ammonia, though. If a certain plant dies, remove it, and only replace it after the cycle is done. 

10) The fishless cycle can also be used when you are still working out the details of lighting, plants and other things. If you change the filter, make sure you keep the old media for several weeks or a month. Most of the bacteria have been growing in this media (sponges, floss etc).


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## VivaDaWolf (Feb 5, 2012)

Will adding in too much ammonia harm bacteria itself? Say oops, we toss half the bottle of ammonia in. Will that eventually all cycle into nitrates or will it be...really really bad?


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## ony (Apr 1, 2011)

VivaDaWolf said:


> Will adding in too much ammonia harm bacteria itself? Say oops, we toss half the bottle of ammonia in. Will that eventually all cycle into nitrates or will it be...really really bad?



Overdosing is a common mistake and it does cause your cycle to stall. Simple solution is to do a water change to reduce ammonia back down to 3 or 4 ppm and keep going as normal. It won't put you back to square 1 but it will slow you down a bit.


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## chicken (Aug 22, 2007)

I have in the past cycled tanks with fish. And yes, it does work. But is it the best option? No. Would I do it again? No.

Many people recommend fishless cycling, and Diana has given some excellent advice on how to do that. It works great, but it's hard not to get impatient while you wait to add fish.

Another option that has worked for me is to plant the tank heavily with fast growing plants, let them get established, and then add fish. I have done this on several tanks now, and have never seen an ammonia or nitrite spike. Again, this does not involve adding fish immediately (at least not when I have done it, but maybe I'm being too cautious). 

I have also robbed filter media from healthy established tanks to start new tanks. Do you have a friend with tanks who could help you out? This may not completely eliminate cycling, but it can certainly speed it up. In my case, now that I have so many tanks, I can safely rob a little from several tanks without causing problems, and eliminate the need to cycle the new one. (Hmmm, do you have a friend with 15 tanks? :hihi: )

If you choose to do a fish-in cycle, then please be as humane as possible. Watch water parameters closely, and do large frequent water changes.


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## Aquarist_Fist (Jul 22, 2008)

Secretninja said:


> The only problem I have with fish in cycles is wasting money on hardy fish I don't like or on nice fish that might die.


Your poor money. That must be hard. :`(

+26 for fishless cycle. Everything has been said in this thread. Let me reiterate that the methods presented here are incredibly easy and just as fast and successful as anything with live fish.


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

The fastest fishless cycle:
Plant very heavily. 
Add a product with Nitrospiros. (Including media from healthy cycled tanks)
Add fish. 
Test. 
Be prepared to do some water changes, just in case the nitrospiros has been handled wrong, but the plants provide a really big cushion, and can be the complete cycle all by themselves. 

I have taken as much as 25% of the media from a well established filter and had no problems with ammonia in the donor tank. There are a lot more bacteria on all the surfaces in the tank, so 25% of the media is less than 25% of all the bacteria. Take some from each of several tanks, and the new tank might be fully cycled right away. 

Do any of these quick methods or a combination. 
Add ammonia to test 3 ppm. 
Next day (24 hours) test ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. 
If you see any ammonia or nitrite then the cycle is not complete, so do not add fish. Finish out the fishless cycle per my post above. 
If all you see are nitrates the tank is cycled. Add fish.


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## Kyrol (Feb 24, 2012)

Diana said:


> The fastest fishless cycle:
> Plant very heavily.
> Add a product with Nitrospiros. (Including media from healthy cycled tanks)
> Add fish.
> ...


 Bottle bacteria is all but worthless if it isn't fresh and isn't refrigerated. All your doing is dumping bottles of expensive ammonia into your tank. Its pretty much modern day snake oil for fish tanks.


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## steveg89 (Jun 29, 2012)

Just to update anyone interested, we did go fishless. I've been throwing in some food and put some of my filter media from the old tank into the new one to jump start it a bit.


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## Aquarist_Fist (Jul 22, 2008)

Good choice!  I'd go with household ammonia rather than fish food, but any fishless method is better than with fish.


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## babyboyblue (Dec 12, 2011)

I went with Ace Pure Ammonia and it went so easy.

Was able to add exact amounts of ammonia.


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## 50089 (Dec 11, 2011)

steveg89 said:


> Just to update anyone interested, we did go fishless. I've been throwing in some food and put some of my filter media from the old tank into the new one to jump start it a bit.


Sounds good! If you can get pure ammonia, I'd use that instead. Fish food can become messy and you'll need to add quite a bit to get the ammonia levels up high enough plus it's not very accurate in terms of dosing. Good luck!


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## fusiongt (Nov 7, 2011)

In the past few tanks I've had I did the fishless cycling (easy with ADA Amazonia which leeches ammonia off the bat) and then when it was time I introduced Otocinlus because they were good algae eaters and would be useful to have (and are interesting enough) to keep in the long run.

Get a few 3-5 depending on your tank size, and they'll even school occasionally. Fun fish and if you don't think you have enough algae for them to eat, put some spinach or cucumber (heat in microwave with some water for 15-25 seconds) and they'll enjoy that.


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## kamikazi (Sep 3, 2010)

I prefer using a combination of a planted tank, tetra safestart and adding small groups of fish a week or two at a time till I reach full stock.


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## Shanster (Jul 23, 2012)

Thanks Diana for the very detailed fishless cycle instructions. I will be picking up some ammonia tomorrow and adding it to the tank.


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## acitydweller (Dec 28, 2011)

You can also supplement the ammonia by adding active bacteria from the bottle. Many lfs now carry this .


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## sunyang730 (Jan 30, 2012)

I will use snail to do the cycling. Totally don't recommend others. Ramshorn is perfect! LOL I love them in the fact that they don't eat plants and eat algae! (I think)


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

Using a snail will grow just the amount of bacteria needed to process the waste from that snail. 

Use any product with Nitrospira, and dose with ammonia just like the fishless cycle until you are ready to add fish. 
Keep the Nitrospira product in the fridge and you can boost the bacteria population every time you add some fish.


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## hawk40 (Jul 23, 2012)

here is where i'm at with my fishless cycle and i need some input!
started with just one piece of frozen raw shrimp, ammonia has risen and fell to .25 ppm...... nitries off the scale! i have liquide ammonia now to keep the ammonia ppm where suggested

i have done 50% water changes 2 days in a row and the nitrite has not dropped.
so the question is largrer water change or keep the 50% going daily until it drops to aceptable level?


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## oscarsx (Mar 15, 2011)

get some goldfish and cycle that sucker, BUT them goldfish might be nasty and destroy your aquarium with diseases...

FISHLESSSS!


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## hawk40 (Jul 23, 2012)

Btt!


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## 50089 (Dec 11, 2011)

hawk40 said:


> here is where i'm at with my fishless cycle and i need some input!
> started with just one piece of frozen raw shrimp, ammonia has risen and fell to .25 ppm...... nitries off the scale! i have liquide ammonia now to keep the ammonia ppm where suggested
> 
> i have done 50% water changes 2 days in a row and the nitrite has not dropped.
> so the question is largrer water change or keep the 50% going daily until it drops to aceptable level?


How long have you been cycling and how long have you had nitrites? I'd do a full water change: 100% and then wait an hour or so and see what nitrites are. Ideally you want them readable on the test (<2 is good). They might shoot up again but that's normal. The nitrite phase is the longest, lasting about 3 weeks on average. If they stay really high for more than a week or so or/and if you notice PH dropping or/and the cycle seems to stall (e.g. ammonia doesn't drop as fast) then do some large water changes to get the nitrite down.


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## hawk40 (Jul 23, 2012)

thanks librarygirl!
my nitrites have been ski high for about a week, ammonia dropped off about 3 days ago so i just started dosing with liquid.
100% scares me so i think i will try 75% and if no drop i will go all the way
thanks again


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

Nitrifying bacteria do not grow so well if ammonia or nitrite are over 5 ppm. 

100% water changes are nothing to worry about. But you can do smaller ones, but more of them one right after another if you want. Just do not forget the dechlor!
Do as large a water change as needed (or several smaller ones) to get the nitrite a lot lower, then re-dose the ammonia, but try only 1 ppm. This will not feed the first population of bacteria very well, but it may give the second population a chance to catch up. 
When it seems they have caught up (Ammonia is disappearing in a few hours or overnight, and nitrite also hits 0 ppm within 24 hours) raise the ammonia dosing to 3 ppm. Monitor it, but I think the second population of bacteria ought to be able to keep up. Be ready to do a water change, though, if the tests start getting close to 5 ppm NO2 again.


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## hawk40 (Jul 23, 2012)

well 75% didn't help... tank is draining as i type! here comes 100% water change!
thanks ladies


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## hawk40 (Jul 23, 2012)

100% did the trick.... strange though nitrite is .25 but ammonia is 1.0
i'm rechecking in the am and see if i need to dose ammonia


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## acitydweller (Dec 28, 2011)

Couldnt find Nitrospiros.

Is it Nitrospira bacteria a genus of Nitrospirae right?














Diana said:


> Here is the fishless cycle.
> 
> You can add the exact species of bacteria you are trying to grow and this makes the fishless cycle go faster. Look of Nitrospiros species of bacteria. All other products have the wrong species. Do not waste your money.
> 
> ...


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## digitallinh (Jun 22, 2011)

to actually answer your question - I recommend zebra danios or feeder guppies, both work, are dirt cheap, and you can feed them to your bigger fish after you're done.


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## Bandit1200 (Dec 11, 2010)

hawk40 said:


> 100% did the trick.... strange though nitrite is .25 but ammonia is 1.0
> i'm rechecking in the am and see if i need to dose ammonia



How could a 100% water change NOT do the trick? You've removed 100% of EVERYTHING.


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

I need to correct my spelling. _Nitrospira_ is the species of bacteria that converts nitrite to nitrate. 

100% water change is really about 95%. There is still some water hiding in the substrate. Somehow I think some of these materials are hiding there, too. 
I have done very careful 50% water changes, (accurate measurements of the tank and the new water volume) and the test results seem to show closer to 40% reduction in nitrate or whatever I was testing for. If some Nitrate (in my example) was loosely attached to the substrate, then broke loose when the new water entered the tank the NO3 would not have been cut by 50%. 

When I do a much more extensive water change, like when I move tanks, I can get the effect of 100% water change. I am stirring the substrate, breaking loose what ever is hiding in there. Then the finished tank matches the tap water parameters.


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## PremativePeat (PP) (Dec 10, 2012)

*Only a thought*

Hi everyone, and Diana, I'm new to the forum...still learning. I've taken interest in your post about fishless cycle. And I have concluded the purpose being to develope a bacteria type that controls the ammonia, nitrite, and converts it to the less harmful nitrate. If I were to apply this method to an empty tank (no decoration etc.) but did have the filter, air, heater and such in that tank...I could have the bacteria in a controlled tank with that filter to become the seeding to a main display tank that eventually will have the fish and plants, and share this carefully prepared water.
You should now rationalize two tanks are involved with one tank suppling controlled water into another and back.
I realize this sound confusing, but believe me it's easier to describe it this way than presenting the entire setup all in one post. So I'm after your opinion on the feasablity of this idea using your method of cycle. PP


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## somewhatshocked (Aug 8, 2011)

The water itself is not what gets cycled. It's all surfaces in the tank and filter where bacteria grow.

So moving water from one tank to another does next to nothing for 'cycling' a tank. Moving filter media from an established filter to a new tank will help cycle, though.


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## manzpants92 (Dec 6, 2012)

If you have an established tank i would run your filters on it and get some of that bacteria on your new filter pads, or even put the old filter pads in your new filter and the cycle will happen pretty much instantly. 

For fish you can get any type of cheap tetra...the majority of them are hardy. Or zebra danios seem to always be a good call


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## PremativePeat (PP) (Dec 10, 2012)

I'm not moving water from one tank to another...It's moving from one then back to circulate by filtration (seeded filtration) then back, as a closed circuit circulation system. And I feel this will still be effective method to share a cycle bacteria...would'nt it? I'm not willing to have any fish till the tank it's cycled. PP


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## PremativePeat (PP) (Dec 10, 2012)

*Seeking advise from Diana*

I seek advise from Diana, who created the post on fishless cycle, not because I don't trust others she seems to have all the details, but I'm near putting this design into practice and fishless cycle to me is of choice but I have some questions if this design would interfier or otherwise create problems. I'm sure many other of you have put together multiple tanks so should have some feed back from the most experienced among you...PP


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## wendyjo (Feb 20, 2009)

What you're proposing doesn't really make sense. You are wanting to set up an empty tank with a filter in order to get a cycle going, and then have water moved from that tank into another tank that will also be empty but have a filter (empty in both cases meaning no livestock) in order to establish a cycle in there as well. Is this correct? Are you going to be stocking both tanks eventually or only the one you are calling the main tank? If you're only going to stock the main tank then why not just fishless cycle that one - why do you feel you need to have a "control" tank set up?


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## beedee (Jul 1, 2010)

What about ADA Aquasoil Amazonia "New'?

I have had my tank filled for one and a half weeks now and for the first week i did 50% water changes everyday. This second week I have been doing 50% every other day, and plan so for one more week. The fourth week I plan on one 50% change every Saturday.

My eheim 2213 is brand new, my substrate was brand new, and my HC and DHG were sourced from my LFS. I dry started my tank for just over a month.

I know ADA Amazonia "New" leeches quite a bit of ammonia, so I've read that it isn't really necessary to add any during the cycle. From what I described above, does it sound like I'm on the right track for an efficient cycle? I may try to get some filter media from a buddy if he can spare any.


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## PremativePeat (PP) (Dec 10, 2012)

Wendyjo, Please don't let my setup offer confusion honestly I'm trying to keep this very simple for my setup is a micro lab if you want to consider what its really about. And there are more than two tanks of 10 g. capacity in this system. Why is of no importance, and I have only presented a two tank, and what if example.
All my tanks share a common level to eleminate pumps, and all share a common plumbing controlled by ball valves in that manor I can issolate any one tank yet the other tanks function un-interupted.
Personally I feel my approach is practical, and would function properly, but sought an opinion of one that seems to know what she is talking about, and I have never done a fishless tank cycle.
Back to my two tank example: One tank only controls water conditions and has a filter along with all water control hardware.
The display tank only has plants, substrate, and will have fish, but no filter or other water control hardware. 
Both tanks share a common circulation, and a common fill level so what one tank has in water parameters and fill height the other shares, and in the case of the display tank, it will slightly alter water conditions due to contents of live stock, substrate, and plants.
I hope this has made clear the purpose of my visit to this forum, otherwise I must be in the wrong place. Oh and only one tank will be stocked. PP


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## PremativePeat (PP) (Dec 10, 2012)

*No Diana...sorry*

I didn’t mean to bring this forum discussion to a halt, and the person I seek may not be a daily visitor regards to all. PP


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

PP

You are describing a sump in a fish room. 
Never mind that they are all aquarium tanks. Even the sump. 

When all the tanks are connected, all use the same water, then it does not matter which tank(s) have filters, media, substrate, plants, fish or anything else. 

You have One System. 

Think about it as a System, not the components. 

Set up any number of tanks, and have the flow controlled by valves on a manifold. 
Have one Sump/Tank/Control/Filter WHATEVER tank. I will call it a sump. 

Put into the sump the filter media, the heater and anything else you want. A big enough pump to supply all the tanks running full blast. 

Now lets talk about nitrogen in this System. 

Nitrogen comes from fish food. Protein is broken down and becomes ammonia. 
If you add too much fish food to tank #4, it affects the whole System, because it is all one System. 
If a fish dies in tank #7 it adds ammonia to the whole System. 
The plants in tank #2 are removing some of the ammonia etc from the whole System. 

To cycle that System, you could
a) set it all up, but have no fish. Plant as you want. Use whatever substrate, rocks, driftwood... 
and plumb it all to the sump. 
From here on out follow the fishless cycle. You are growing enough bacteria to handle a lot of ammonia. 

b) Just cycle the sump. Filter media, pump running pretty low. Fishless cycle works just fine in small containers. You are not growing a lot of bacteria, though. 
When you add just a couple of tanks, not too many fish you are fine. If you add too many all at once you have probably not grown enough bacteria to handle lots of tanks full of fish. 

Look at it this way:
How much ammonia do you add to 500 gallons (the full system) to make it test 5 ppm? A lot. A lot of fish, a lot of teaspoons of ammonia, the source does not matter. 
How much ammonia do you add to 50 gallons (just the sump) to make it read 5 ppm? One tenth as much. It does not matter if the ammonia comes from fish or a bottle. It does not take very much to make 50 gallons of water test 5 ppm. 

So... you are only growing one tenth as much bacteria. 

So... if you set up and cycle the whole system at one time, even if you are changing the plants, and doing stuff to it while it cycles, you are growing enough bacteria to handle the whole system reasonably full of fish. Enough fish to produce 3 ppm ammonia in 500 gallons of water. 

If you set up and cycle just the sump, which is way smaller than the whole system, you can only add a couple of tanks reasonably full of fish, or more tanks but less fish in each one. Enough fish to produce 3 ppm ammonia in 50 gallons of water. 

Any related set up can be figured the same way. 

How much fish food are you adding? (I do not care how many fish you have or what size they are) How much ammonia are you adding from any other source? 
When that ammonia passes through the bio media (filter or plants or both) is there enough bacteria and plants to remove it?
If so, the system is cycled for that amount of fish food. 
If not, rising ammonia can kill the fish and plants.


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## PremativePeat (PP) (Dec 10, 2012)

*That answered all questions I had*

Thank you Diana, and that was easy, for your description is accurate enough to say it's all one unit and that is how I would have considered the system to be...Thanks again. PP


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## micheljq (Oct 24, 2012)

I hate this title, fishes should never been used to cycle a tank. It's cruel that's all. Fish can die, or receive permanent damage to gills because of ammonia and nitrites.

There is not sense in doing that. You just need to pur a little fish flakes to start the cycle and wait. Patience is the most important virtue in this domain.

Most often in 24 years, I just pour water in the tank, let the filter run and that's all the nitrogen cycle starts itself after 3 weeks maximum. There are thousands of bacteria in the filter, sand, gravel, our hands, decorations, plants, to start the cycle. Risking the life of a fish is not necessary, and it's often just a commercial argument used by pet shops.

Michel.


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## PremativePeat (PP) (Dec 10, 2012)

*Sump*

Thank you for defining what my system is, and your right it's a sump. Thanks Diana.


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## mistahoo (Apr 25, 2012)

Why not just use a piece of frozen shrimp? Or perhaps a fish that died? Both will give off ammonia that will help bacteria grow as they consume the ammonia.

Sent from my spaceship using Tapatalk 2.


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## micheljq (Oct 24, 2012)

mistahoo said:


> Why not just use a piece of frozen shrimp? Or perhaps a fish that died? Both will give off ammonia that will help bacteria grow as they consume the ammonia.
> 
> Sent from my spaceship using Tapatalk 2.


Yes I think that would do for the dead fish I would fear problems if it died from a sickness and I am not fond of seeing a dead fish in the tank myself.

Also, if you have access to another filter you squeeze some of the brown juice in the new filter. Or take a little substrate from another cycled/healhty tank and put it in the new tank etc.

After the cycling is done, SLOWLY add the fishes by little groups only, the tank is new, denetrifying bacteria not solidly established. There is always the risk of a nitrite peak if too much fishes are added at the same time. A mistake which is done often.

Michel.


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